# Two-Jaw surgery



## Madea25

Hello Everyone,

I would like to create this thread for those who want two-jaw surgery or other complex bone surgeries here.  

So far I have heard about Everm, At clinic, and View for their two-jaw.

If anyone knows any good two-jaw clinics in korea besides ID (heard scary stories), pls share the valued info:]

Any past patients of these clinics or had two-jaw surgery who would be kind to share your experience and reviews, pls pls pls do so:]

Thanks!


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## Deanna89

Creating this thread is an awesome idea! I'm constantly searching for reviews on two-jaw.

Just to let you know, the facial contouring and jaw specialist at View had now opened his own clinic. One of the other members posted about it. I'll try to find it and post the information here.


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## Deanna89

I'm still not very savvy with working mobile purseforum, but here is the link that'll take you to the info about the jaw surgeon from View. Look for posts from RitchAllTheTime:

http://forum.purseblog.com/showpost.php?p=25471699


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## PSP

Deanna89 said:


> Creating this thread is an awesome idea! I'm constantly searching for reviews on two-jaw.
> 
> Just to let you know, the facial contouring and jaw specialist at View had now opened his own clinic. One of the other members posted about it. I'll try to find it and post the information here.



Dr Lee (formerly from View) has setup his own clinic:

DA Clinic

http://daprs.com/


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## PSP

Hi there,

Very interesting thread. Thanks for setting it up. 

One of the members who are in Korea now has checked with her surgeon regards the jaw procedure. 

According to her surgeon, 2 jaws is a very dangerous procedure which unskillful doctor could cause death. He advised that the patient should go to maxillary specialist such as dental clinic instead of normal PS clinic. 

Please research and research as much as possible on your 2 jaws procedure as your life is at stack. 

Even though my is only simple T cut at the chin, i will still opt to go to maxillary specialist as they know the jaw and its nerves better.

Cheers. Just my 2 cents


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## Madea25

Deanna89 said:


> Creating this thread is an awesome idea! I'm constantly searching for reviews on two-jaw.
> 
> Just to let you know, the facial contouring and jaw specialist at View had now opened his own clinic. One of the other members posted about it. I'll try to find it and post the information here.


REALLY?!! I heard so many great things about View that hearing that one of their maxiofacial surgeon opening their own practice sounds really GOOD and worth researching on:] Yes pls let me know and if I find out anything ill post it here or message u!

Take Care!


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## Madea25

PSP said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Very interesting thread. Thanks for setting it up.
> 
> One of the members who are in Korea now has checked with her surgeon regards the jaw procedure.
> 
> According to her surgeon, 2 jaws is a very dangerous procedure which unskillful doctor could cause death. He advised that the patient should go to maxillary specialist such as dental clinic instead of normal PS clinic.
> 
> Please research and research as much as possible on your 2 jaws procedure as your life is at stack.
> 
> Even though my is only simple T cut at the chin, i will still opt to go to maxillary specialist as they know the jaw and its nerves better.
> 
> Cheers. Just my 2 cents



Ur so right PSP!! no bone contouring is safer than the other because of nerves so all caution must be the number 1 priority :]


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## Madea25

Here is the link to the clinic of the bone surgeon from View went.

Pics look real NICE!!! 

http://daprs.com/index.php


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## shinyglittery

Madea25 said:


> Here is the link to the clinic of the bone surgeon from View went.
> 
> Pics look real NICE!!!
> 
> http://daprs.com/index.php



most of the pictures on his front page (including the three main ones) are from his time at View, just in case you are interested. They look good, he has made all my favorites!


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## liz001

http://eng.grandsurgery.com/laser-facial-contouring/

Can some tell me the difference between this type of surgery compare to traditional two jaw surgery. It doesn't say who is a good candidate for this procedure. And the site only list the pros and very generic information. Has one had any experience with this type of surgery? or know more about this surgery?

Thanks


----------



## shinyglittery

liz001 said:


> http://eng.grandsurgery.com/laser-facial-contouring/
> 
> Can some tell me the difference between this type of surgery compare to traditional two jaw surgery. It doesn't say who is a good candidate for this procedure. And the site only list the pros and very generic information. Has one had any experience with this type of surgery? or know more about this surgery?
> 
> Thanks



it's a marketing trick but Grand is not really good for facial contouring


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## RINA123

Madea25 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I would like to create this thread for those who want two-jaw surgery or other complex bone surgeries here.
> 
> So far I have heard about Everm, At clinic, and View for their two-jaw.
> 
> If anyone knows any good two-jaw clinics in korea besides ID (heard scary stories), pls share the valued info:]
> 
> Any past patients of these clinics or had two-jaw surgery who would be kind to share your experience and reviews, pls pls pls do so:]
> 
> Thanks!





hi madea 

thank you for this.. its a big help for all of us who really wanted to 
have this procedure..


keep posting please for your experience and plans.


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## RINA123

Zizen said:


> Actually i had two-jaw surgery with
> Oral and maxillofacial surgeon and plastic surgery specialist (two doctors did my two-jaw surgery) in seoul, if you have questions, msg me



Hi zizen

I can't send you message

Thanks


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## sanmi

Zizen said:


> Actually i had two-jaw surgery with
> Oral and maxillofacial surgeon and plastic surgery specialist (two doctors did my two-jaw surgery) in seoul, if you have questions, msg me



Care to share which doc and The clinic u went to? Are you satisfied with your results and is the swelling recovery period long for u?  U may PM me if ure willing to share thanks.


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## sanmi

Hi zizen sent u an email. If ure wiling to share, Could You add the 2-jaw And Acculift surgeries docs names and the price as well. 
I forgot to include it. 
Thanks.


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## Flower Ulzzang

jeniffer_kim said:


> actually i had 2 jaw surgery at id this March, but i will not share my experiences in here since ID is not your list i think...  but if you have questions about 2jaw surgery, e-mail me, it was really big surgery and even in my life
> 
> 
> 
> jenifferkim97@gmail.com



Hii im also considering ID hospital, mind if i email you? ^^


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## Flower Ulzzang

Zizen said:


> Hey, I had two jaw surgery in 2010 since i have long face, asymmetric face, TMJ syndrome and big face. Absolutely I needed two jaw surgery, but many people are interested in and considering two jaw surgery for just cosmetic surgery. it is very big surgery and patients should visit very skillful specialists at big hospital. don't think/consider two jaw surgery simply. it is not simple cosmetic surgery. however, if you really need it coz you have protruding chin, bimaxillary prognathism, gummy smile, you need two jaw surgery. hopefully people meet good doctor. if anyone need my help, pm me


thats amazing to hear your success! may i inquire how much it was and whether your appearance improved significantly or not? ^^ also did u do the surgery with braces on or not?


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## swoon_ca

Hi everyone, I would like to post about my experience with 2 jaw surgery and v-line. Initially I was not planning to b/c I'm lazy... But I felt it was my duty to report back b/c I feel like there was a lack of ppl who posted about their successful surgery on this forum. Hopefully, this post will be helpful to someone out there. I will not respond to private msgs (I dont have enough posts to respond anyways) or answers any questions after this but I will make this post detailed!

I know a lot of ppl go to Korea for surgery but when I did my research, the vibe I was getting was that it&#8217;s like a factory there. No personal services, doctors are too busy and patients are rushed. I don't know if this is true b/c I&#8217;ve never been there personally but it scared the **** out of me. So after LOTS of research, I went to Taiwan to do my surgery with Dr. Hsieh of charm cosmetic.  


Procedures:  
1.      - 2 jaw
2.      - V-line


  Results:
1.     -  Surgery was a success (I&#8217;m SUPER happy)
2.     -  I look amazing and I can&#8217;t stop staring at the mirror b/c I keep looking better every day as the swollen resides!
3.    -   The only thing I would complain about is my nose. With any 2 jaw surgery, if your upper jaw is pushed forward, your nose will change; usually the nose gets wider. I was aware of this prior to surgery as I&#8217;ve done extensive research. The doctor said he would use &#8220;Nasal alar cinch suture&#8221; to prevent it from changing but I did find my nose did still get wider.  I noticed my nose also projects further away from my face and tilts slightly up which I like! 

Skill Level:  1.    -   Dr. Hseish is crazy (in a good way). I saw a lot of post-surgery pics online and boy they all looked bad. Long and behold, I had absolutely NO bruises on my face after surgery&#8230; that&#8217;s how good he is.
2.    -   During my consultation, I was amused to see how excited he was to do this surgery. You know a doctor is good when there is lots of passion involved.  

Mannerism of the clinic:  1.    -   The ladies at the clinics don&#8217;t speak much English except for the dentist assistant and Dr. Hsieh assistant. These 2 lovely ladies were absolutely sweet to me! I was all alone when I did this surgery but they cared for me like I was a friend and it was so touching as none of my family could be with me.   I didn&#8217;t have a cell phone so they even offered to let me bring the clinic&#8217;s ipad back to my hotel with me so I could communicate with them via email after my surgery. 
2.     -  I had to wait maybe 30 mins to an hour to see Dr. Hsieh for our initial consultation. I think it&#8217;s b/c he takes time with each patient. He spent a lot of time with me as well.
3.     -  I had to take my blood prior to the surgery. I got a little scared when the nurse took my blood. When she pulled the needle out of my arm, she didn&#8217;t put a bandage on top right away so blood leaked on the table.. I&#8217;m terrified of blood but it wasn&#8217;t like she was my surgeon so I didn&#8217;t worry too much about it.


Post surgery experience
1.     -  Surgery was a breeze, but post surgery was hard. Maybe b/c I was by myself in a hotel? I dunno, but it was not easy.
2.     -  It was one of the toughest 5 days of my life. It was hard to take liquids in. It was hard to breath. I had a lot of discomforts with eating so I simply didn&#8217;t eat. It hurt to pee b/c they use an urine catheter during surgery. SIGH* it was tough. But after the first week, it was easy J
3.     -  By 1.5 weeks, I could eat soft solids. By 2 weeks, I could eat bananas. By 3 weeks I was eating again. By 4 weeks, I was eating everything. 


Surgery Complications:
1.    -   My right side healed faster than my left, which made me look like my face and lips was crooked. I was extremely worried  but 2 months later and it has returned 90% back to normal and it will probably recover fully since I am still swollen on the left side. 
2.    -   My lips were huge after surgery but that&#8217;s not what worried me. What worried me was after 1 week they began to shrink! I&#8217;m talking smaller than they were before. This made NO sense to me but I never addressed it to my surgeon. I thought, maybe it was just me. So I flew back home 3 weeks after my surgery and my parents and bf thought the same thing.. My lips were tiny! I have no explanation for this being 2 months post-surgery, they have returned to their normal size.. BIG phew*
3.    -   I really love my smile but after the surgery my smile changed to this ugly joker smile.  I was patient though as I know the swollenness in the face alters the smile. 1 month post op, my smile was not back and I was really depressed thinking it was permanently stuck like this. 2 months post op, my smile is back to normal! 
4.    -   I had a sharp pain in my left ear after surgery every time I drank cold water or orange juice (probably a nerve issue). The nurses and doctor told me it would go away and it did eventually. 
5.    -   I had many more worries while I was healing but all of these problems were temporary so if you&#8217;re planning to get 2 jaw, please be patient and try not to worry as much as me. 


Good luck to all the gals getting jaw surgery + vline. It&#8217;s not as scary as everyone makes it. It was the best decision of my life and I would do it again a million times.


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## piyochi

swoon_ca said:


> Hi everyone, I would like to post about my experience with 2 jaw surgery and v-line. Initially I was not planning to b/c I'm lazy... But I felt it was my duty to report back b/c I feel like there was a lack of ppl who posted about their successful surgery on this forum. Hopefully, this post will be helpful to someone out there. I will not respond to private msgs (I dont have enough posts to respond anyways) or answers any questions after this but I will make this post detailed!
> 
> I know a lot of ppl go to Korea for surgery but when I did my research, the vibe I was getting was that it&#8217;s like a factory there. No personal services, doctors are too busy and patients are rushed. I don't know if this is true b/c I&#8217;ve never been there personally but it scared the **** out of me. So after LOTS of research, I went to Taiwan to do my surgery with Dr. Hsieh of charm cosmetic.
> 
> 
> Procedures:
> 1.      - 2 jaw
> 2.      - V-line
> 
> 
> Results:
> 1.     -  Surgery was a success (I&#8217;m SUPER happy)
> 2.     -  I look amazing and I can&#8217;t stop staring at the mirror b/c I keep looking better every day as the swollen resides!
> 3.    -   The only thing I would complain about is my nose. With any 2 jaw surgery, if your upper jaw is pushed forward, your nose will change; usually the nose gets wider. I was aware of this prior to surgery as I&#8217;ve done extensive research. The doctor said he would use &#8220;Nasal alar cinch suture&#8221; to prevent it from changing but I did find my nose did still get wider.  I noticed my nose also projects further away from my face and tilts slightly up which I like!
> 
> Skill Level:  1.    -   Dr. Hseish is crazy (in a good way). I saw a lot of post-surgery pics online and boy they all looked bad. Long and behold, I had absolutely NO bruises on my face after surgery&#8230; that&#8217;s how good he is.
> 2.    -   During my consultation, I was amused to see how excited he was to do this surgery. You know a doctor is good when there is lots of passion involved.
> 
> Mannerism of the clinic:  1.    -   The ladies at the clinics don&#8217;t speak much English except for the dentist assistant and Dr. Hsieh assistant. These 2 lovely ladies were absolutely sweet to me! I was all alone when I did this surgery but they cared for me like I was a friend and it was so touching as none of my family could be with me.   I didn&#8217;t have a cell phone so they even offered to let me bring the clinic&#8217;s ipad back to my hotel with me so I could communicate with them via email after my surgery.
> 2.     -  I had to wait maybe 30 mins to an hour to see Dr. Hsieh for our initial consultation. I think it&#8217;s b/c he takes time with each patient. He spent a lot of time with me as well.
> 3.     -  I had to take my blood prior to the surgery. I got a little scared when the nurse took my blood. When she pulled the needle out of my arm, she didn&#8217;t put a bandage on top right away so blood leaked on the table.. I&#8217;m terrified of blood but it wasn&#8217;t like she was my surgeon so I didn&#8217;t worry too much about it.
> 
> 
> Post surgery experience
> 1.     -  Surgery was a breeze, but post surgery was hard. Maybe b/c I was by myself in a hotel? I dunno, but it was not easy.
> 2.     -  It was one of the toughest 5 days of my life. It was hard to take liquids in. It was hard to breath. I had a lot of discomforts with eating so I simply didn&#8217;t eat. It hurt to pee b/c they use an urine catheter during surgery. SIGH* it was tough. But after the first week, it was easy J
> 3.     -  By 1.5 weeks, I could eat soft solids. By 2 weeks, I could eat bananas. By 3 weeks I was eating again. By 4 weeks, I was eating everything.
> 
> 
> Surgery Complications:
> 1.    -   My right side healed faster than my left, which made me look like my face and lips was crooked. I was extremely worried  but 2 months later and it has returned 90% back to normal and it will probably recover fully since I am still swollen on the left side.
> 2.    -   My lips were huge after surgery but that&#8217;s not what worried me. What worried me was after 1 week they began to shrink! I&#8217;m talking smaller than they were before. This made NO sense to me but I never addressed it to my surgeon. I thought, maybe it was just me. So I flew back home 3 weeks after my surgery and my parents and bf thought the same thing.. My lips were tiny! I have no explanation for this being 2 months post-surgery, they have returned to their normal size.. BIG phew*
> 3.    -   I really love my smile but after the surgery my smile changed to this ugly joker smile.  I was patient though as I know the swollenness in the face alters the smile. 1 month post op, my smile was not back and I was really depressed thinking it was permanently stuck like this. 2 months post op, my smile is back to normal!
> 4.    -   I had a sharp pain in my left ear after surgery every time I drank cold water or orange juice (probably a nerve issue). The nurses and doctor told me it would go away and it did eventually.
> 5.    -   I had many more worries while I was healing but all of these problems were temporary so if you&#8217;re planning to get 2 jaw, please be patient and try not to worry as much as me.
> 
> 
> Good luck to all the gals getting jaw surgery + vline. It&#8217;s not as scary as everyone makes it. It was the best decision of my life and I would do it again a million times.


Hi there, 

I just read your experience. Omg I feel better. I am planning to do ps next year and I am not sure if I want to do a two jaw surgery because everyone keeps saying its dangerous. It takes forever to recover. 

I want to know if you have to wear braces after the 2 jaw surgery? 

Do you have the contact from TW? 
May I ask how much you pay for the v line and 2 jaw surgery?

2 jaw surgery is very expensive in Korea and the communication is hard as well.

Hope to hear from you soon

Thank you


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## Nicole01

Question: can you get two jaw surgery after v-line surgery? I know I want to get at least V-line surgery to fix my chin and jaw, but I also have kind of a long face that I want to make shorter... I think the v-line will help, but if I wanted to get 2-jaw after v-line does anyone know if that is possible


----------



## Madea25

Nicole01 said:


> Question: can you get two jaw surgery after v-line surgery? I know I want to get at least V-line surgery to fix my chin and jaw, but I also have kind of a long face that I want to make shorter... I think the v-line will help, but if I wanted to get 2-jaw after v-line does anyone know if that is possible


Yes  i believe you can get v-line, cause i hear that most clinics can do revisions on bone surgeries such as v-line and they even do revisions for extreme cases such as two-surgery..so if you can have revision on two jaw, i see why two jaw after revisions wouldn't be a problem.

Also..bone heals like a broken leg or something...i have read that if you break a bone in the same place more than once...it will definitely heal..but it will take a little bit longer than the time it took to heal the first time.


----------



## Madea25

swoon_ca said:


> Hi everyone, I would like to post about my experience with 2 jaw surgery and v-line. Initially I was not planning to b/c I'm lazy... But I felt it was my duty to report back b/c I feel like there was a lack of ppl who posted about their successful surgery on this forum. Hopefully, this post will be helpful to someone out there. I will not respond to private msgs (I dont have enough posts to respond anyways) or answers any questions after this but I will make this post detailed!
> 
> I know a lot of ppl go to Korea for surgery but when I did my research, the vibe I was getting was that it&#8217;s like a factory there. No personal services, doctors are too busy and patients are rushed. I don't know if this is true b/c I&#8217;ve never been there personally but it scared the **** out of me. So after LOTS of research, I went to Taiwan to do my surgery with Dr. Hsieh of charm cosmetic.
> 
> 
> Procedures:
> 1.      - 2 jaw
> 2.      - V-line
> 
> 
> Results:
> 1.     -  Surgery was a success (I&#8217;m SUPER happy)
> 2.     -  I look amazing and I can&#8217;t stop staring at the mirror b/c I keep looking better every day as the swollen resides!
> 3.    -   The only thing I would complain about is my nose. With any 2 jaw surgery, if your upper jaw is pushed forward, your nose will change; usually the nose gets wider. I was aware of this prior to surgery as I&#8217;ve done extensive research. The doctor said he would use &#8220;Nasal alar cinch suture&#8221; to prevent it from changing but I did find my nose did still get wider.  I noticed my nose also projects further away from my face and tilts slightly up which I like!
> 
> Skill Level:  1.    -   Dr. Hseish is crazy (in a good way). I saw a lot of post-surgery pics online and boy they all looked bad. Long and behold, I had absolutely NO bruises on my face after surgery&#8230; that&#8217;s how good he is.
> 2.    -   During my consultation, I was amused to see how excited he was to do this surgery. You know a doctor is good when there is lots of passion involved.
> 
> Mannerism of the clinic:  1.    -   The ladies at the clinics don&#8217;t speak much English except for the dentist assistant and Dr. Hsieh assistant. These 2 lovely ladies were absolutely sweet to me! I was all alone when I did this surgery but they cared for me like I was a friend and it was so touching as none of my family could be with me.   I didn&#8217;t have a cell phone so they even offered to let me bring the clinic&#8217;s ipad back to my hotel with me so I could communicate with them via email after my surgery.
> 2.     -  I had to wait maybe 30 mins to an hour to see Dr. Hsieh for our initial consultation. I think it&#8217;s b/c he takes time with each patient. He spent a lot of time with me as well.
> 3.     -  I had to take my blood prior to the surgery. I got a little scared when the nurse took my blood. When she pulled the needle out of my arm, she didn&#8217;t put a bandage on top right away so blood leaked on the table.. I&#8217;m terrified of blood but it wasn&#8217;t like she was my surgeon so I didn&#8217;t worry too much about it.
> 
> 
> Post surgery experience
> 1.     -  Surgery was a breeze, but post surgery was hard. Maybe b/c I was by myself in a hotel? I dunno, but it was not easy.
> 2.     -  It was one of the toughest 5 days of my life. It was hard to take liquids in. It was hard to breath. I had a lot of discomforts with eating so I simply didn&#8217;t eat. It hurt to pee b/c they use an urine catheter during surgery. SIGH* it was tough. But after the first week, it was easy J
> 3.     -  By 1.5 weeks, I could eat soft solids. By 2 weeks, I could eat bananas. By 3 weeks I was eating again. By 4 weeks, I was eating everything.
> 
> 
> Surgery Complications:
> 1.    -   My right side healed faster than my left, which made me look like my face and lips was crooked. I was extremely worried  but 2 months later and it has returned 90% back to normal and it will probably recover fully since I am still swollen on the left side.
> 2.    -   My lips were huge after surgery but that&#8217;s not what worried me. What worried me was after 1 week they began to shrink! I&#8217;m talking smaller than they were before. This made NO sense to me but I never addressed it to my surgeon. I thought, maybe it was just me. So I flew back home 3 weeks after my surgery and my parents and bf thought the same thing.. My lips were tiny! I have no explanation for this being 2 months post-surgery, they have returned to their normal size.. BIG phew*
> 3.    -   I really love my smile but after the surgery my smile changed to this ugly joker smile.  I was patient though as I know the swollenness in the face alters the smile. 1 month post op, my smile was not back and I was really depressed thinking it was permanently stuck like this. 2 months post op, my smile is back to normal!
> 4.    -   I had a sharp pain in my left ear after surgery every time I drank cold water or orange juice (probably a nerve issue). The nurses and doctor told me it would go away and it did eventually.
> 5.    -   I had many more worries while I was healing but all of these problems were temporary so if you&#8217;re planning to get 2 jaw, please be patient and try not to worry as much as me.
> 
> 
> Good luck to all the gals getting jaw surgery + vline. It&#8217;s not as scary as everyone makes it. It was the best decision of my life and I would do it again a million times.


thanks for ur story!! it will help a lot of people interested in two-jaw


----------



## Madea25

liz001 said:


> http://eng.grandsurgery.com/laser-facial-contouring/
> 
> Can some tell me the difference between this type of surgery compare to traditional two jaw surgery. It doesn't say who is a good candidate for this procedure. And the site only list the pros and very generic information. Has one had any experience with this type of surgery? or know more about this surgery?
> 
> Thanks


the link you posted is about layering of the bone for all types of bone surgeries such as v-line and two-jaw.  I feel that it depends on your facial shape to be a candidate for certain procedures, but the only way knowing for sure if you are a good candidate for a specific bone surgery is by consulting with ur surgeon and having a CT scan.

For example, I have a slight protruding mouth that I do not like.  I consulted (online) with several ps clinics and some clinics said i needed two-jaw, some clinics said i only needed ASO(anterior segmental osteotomy) and some clinics said I only needed my nose bridge augmented as well as have my chin moved forward (sliding genioplasty) to mask the protruding mouth cause they feel it was not severe enough...so it really depends...but also be aware that some clinics tell u to do the most extreme/expensive procedure just to get money out from u when really..u only needed a smaller surgery, lack for a better word.


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## Madea25

hey everyone!! I haven't been able to post on here for a while since I have been extremely busy with college, but I would like to see if anyone has found any new info on good two-jaw clinics..or even some new reviews.

So far I read about one girl on this forum who got two-jaw at grand.  I was like so scared for her since grand has not so good reviews..but she had a great experience with two-jaw by the bone doctor named Dr. Kang Nara at Grand.  I went to grands website and noticed he is not listed as one of the doctors..so I'm guessing he moved to a new clinic or started his own practice.

If anyone knows info about this pls let me know:]

I wish u all the best of luck in achieving the dream look you've always wanted...and deserve:] Everyone deserves to feel good inside and out!


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## Madea25

pls check around this forum on reviews about ID hospital..and also check out the thread called "victims at ID hospital" just to help you make the right decision


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## Nicole01

Just wondering for people who want two-jaw to shorten their face, does anyone know how this surgery works exactly?


----------



## Nicole01

Madea25 said:


> Yes  i believe you can get v-line, cause i hear that most clinics can do revisions on bone surgeries such as v-line and they even do revisions for extreme cases such as two-surgery..so if you can have revision on two jaw, i see why two jaw after revisions wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Also..bone heals like a broken leg or something...i have read that if you break a bone in the same place more than once...it will definitely heal..but it will take a little bit longer than the time it took to heal the first time.


Thanks Madea25 just saw this. Since posting this I actually contacted ID and they confirmed that you can do 2-jaw after v-line if you want, but they recommend doing them at the same time to reduce number of times under anesthesia and scarring.


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## Madea25

Are u interested in EverM or WhiteClinic?? I heard they are good bone contouring clinics...and cheaper than ID


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## Nicole01

Yeah I actually emailed EverM and am waiting for them to get back to me.. I haven't heard much about WhiteClinic though.

I also heard that Dr. Park from AT clinic is pretty good with two jaw and v-line. 

Even though I think I might need two jaw to make my face shorter, one thing Dr. Park recommended instead was for me to get acculaser lipo for the lower face and endotine thread lift with v-line. 

I included the description he sent me about the endotine thread] below. 


Any thoughts? I guess I am afraid of it looking fake and not really accomplishing what I want...


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## Nicole01

Sorry they didn't get attached. I included a before and after too.


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## Nicole01

I like that it would lift my lower face which would I guess theoretically making my face look less long.


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## Madea25

Nicole01 said:


> Yeah I actually emailed EverM and am waiting for them to get back to me.. I haven't heard much about WhiteClinic though.
> 
> I also heard that Dr. Park from AT clinic is pretty good with two jaw and v-line.
> 
> Even though I think I might need two jaw to make my face shorter, one thing Dr. Park recommended instead was for me to get acculaser lipo for the lower face and endotine thread lift with v-line.
> 
> I included the description he sent me about the endotine thread] below.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts? I guess I am afraid of it looking fake and not really accomplishing what I want...


Hey Nicole01,

I am not a doctor at any means but maybe I can give you my opinion.  For the living of under the chin, I feel the doctor is right.  Before I lost weight, I had fat under my chin, it looked nice because the fat sat nicely under the chin (which is why some get fat graft for chin aug)...but when I lost weight, the fat disappeared and my chin looks VERY short now which is why I am interested in two-jaw to do the complete opposite of what you want to achieve.

In regards to your question if two-jaw will make your face shorter, in my opinion, I believe it can.  Here is a funny story about myself, since my chin got really short after weight loss, I started this habit of placing only the tip of my top front teeth in on top of the tip of my bottom teeth which gave me vertical length LOL!! so with that being said, if your bite is off, it adds height. Also, sometimes the upper jaw has is long vertically which is why some people have their gums exposed when smiling which gives a longer face.  Also, if two-jaw is needed to push your jaw back for any specific reason, then it will give a smaller face affect...think about it...if people get sliding genioplasty to move their chin forward, it creates a longer, fuller affect.

Well i hope this helps, again I am no doctor lol, just gathered this info from my experience and research :]


----------



## Madea25

Nicole01 said:


> Sorry they didn't get attached. I included a before and after too.


Wow, yes this procedure is very popular and gives v-line if the bone is the one that is long, but the soft tissue, and plus your cheeks and neck will look so nice!

By the way, I am interest in this clinic and I have no idea how to email them.  How were yu able to contact them?  Since they sent you this description of the endoscopic surgery in english, does that mean they have an english translator????


----------



## Madea25

Also Nicole01, 

Would you mind sharing how much AT clinic quoted u for two-jaw, v-line, and endscopic lift?

Thanks!!


----------



## Zapp332

Madea25 said:


> Here is the link to the clinic of the bone surgeon from View went.
> 
> Pics look real NICE!!!
> 
> http://daprs.com/index.php



Can you share DAPS email address?


----------



## Madea25

Zapp332 said:


> Can you share DAPS email address?


Hi Zapp332:]

DAPS email is: dldms0901@naver.com


----------



## paxsky

Madea25 said:


> Hey Nicole01,
> 
> I am not a doctor at any means but maybe I can give you my opinion.  For the living of under the chin, I feel the doctor is right.  Before I lost weight, I had fat under my chin, it looked nice because the fat sat nicely under the chin (which is why some get fat graft for chin aug)...but when I lost weight, the fat disappeared and my chin looks VERY short now which is why I am interested in two-jaw to do the complete opposite of what you want to achieve.
> 
> In regards to your question if two-jaw will make your face shorter, in my opinion, I believe it can.  Here is a funny story about myself, since my chin got really short after weight loss, I started this habit of placing only the tip of my top front teeth in on top of the tip of my bottom teeth which gave me vertical length LOL!! so with that being said, if your bite is off, it adds height. Also, sometimes the upper jaw has is long vertically which is why some people have their gums exposed when smiling which gives a longer face.  Also, if two-jaw is needed to push your jaw back for any specific reason, then it will give a smaller face affect...think about it...if people get sliding genioplasty to move their chin forward, it creates a longer, fuller affect.
> 
> Well i hope this helps, again I am no doctor lol, just gathered this info from my experience and research :]


Those are great observations.  I'm considering this surgery to shorten my face, but don't have any gums showing. Do you know if shortening the upper jaw would cover up the upper teeth too much?


----------



## paxsky

PSP said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Very interesting thread. Thanks for setting it up.
> 
> One of the members who are in Korea now has checked with her surgeon regards the jaw procedure.
> 
> According to her surgeon, 2 jaws is a very dangerous procedure which unskillful doctor could cause death. He advised that the patient should go to maxillary specialist such as dental clinic instead of normal PS clinic.
> 
> Please research and research as much as possible on your 2 jaws procedure as your life is at stack.
> 
> Even though my is only simple T cut at the chin, i will still opt to go to maxillary specialist as they know the jaw and its nerves better.
> 
> Cheers. Just my 2 cents


Ever-M claims to use a different- new- cutting technique that minimizes the risks of damaging nerves around the jaw.  I'm leaning towards Everm if I decide to do this, which I would do with a zygomatic reductions but am concerned about drooping.


----------



## Madea25

paxsky said:


> Ever-M claims to use a different- new- cutting technique that minimizes the risks of damaging nerves around the jaw.  I'm leaning towards Everm if I decide to do this, which I would do with a zygomatic reductions but am concerned about drooping.


WOW thanks for the valued info :] where did u hear this info from? Can u read korean? 

I think i read somewhere on this forum that they do a method that doest have drooping:] 

Have u heard any reviews about EverM on Naver?...I wish I could check, but i do not understand korean :[


----------



## Madea25

paxsky said:


> Those are great observations.  I'm considering this surgery to shorten my face, but don't have any gums showing. Do you know if shortening the upper jaw would cover up the upper teeth too much?


Hello Paxsky:]

I feel that if ur gums do not show, it is a good thing, but the doctor may need to mess with ur upper and lower teeth attached the jaw.  In other words, to achieve a smaller face, I'm guessing the doctor will need to push ur jaw with chin back substantially.  Since the lower teeth is obviously attached to ur lower jaw, it would move back a lot too along with the moving back of the chin and lower jaw, so the doctor will need to move those lower teeth as well as well as moving the upper jaw into a position that they would align cause if he didn't u would look like a piranha lol.  The moving of the teeth is called ASO (anterior segmental osteotomy)....which is very much commonly done with two-jaw or is part of that surgery.


----------



## Zapp332

Madea25 said:


> Hi Zapp332:]
> 
> DAPS email is: dldms0901@naver.com



Hi Madea25, thanks for sharing the email.


Just wonder if anyone in the forum had done 2 jaw surgery in Korea who can confirm how long is the rrasonable time to stay there. I have consulted a few clinics. Some said 2 weeks & some said 1- 2 mth with around the same price. Anyone can advise me? I am still considering if I really want to take the risk to do this surgery


----------



## paxsky

Madea25 said:


> WOW thanks for the valued info :] where did u hear this info from? Can u read korean?
> 
> I think i read somewhere on this forum that they do a method that doest have drooping:]
> 
> Have u heard any reviews about EverM on Naver?...I wish I could check, but i do not understand korean :[


Hi Madea25,

I can understand Korean better than I can read it, especially, technical text, so what I did was use Google translate (copy and pasted into google translate and had it read it to me).  I forgot exactly which article is was  that talked about the cutting process, but I found it here:

http://www.everm.net/community/data/index.jsp?searchHospitalFK=0&stype=&sval=&reqPageNo=2

I also found their youtube channel, which only has 2 videos so far:
http://www.youtube.com/user/evermdental

Haven't checked out the reviews on Naver.  Not sure how to access...  If you know the link, please post and I'll try to translate it.    

Good Luck!


----------



## paxsky

Madea25 said:


> Hello Paxsky:]
> 
> I feel that if ur gums do not show, it is a good thing, but the doctor may need to mess with ur upper and lower teeth attached the jaw.  In other words, to achieve a smaller face, I'm guessing the doctor will need to push ur jaw with chin back substantially.  Since the lower teeth is obviously attached to ur lower jaw, it would move back a lot too along with the moving back of the chin and lower jaw, so the doctor will need to move those lower teeth as well as well as moving the upper jaw into a position that they would align cause if he didn't u would look like a piranha lol.  The moving of the teeth is called ASO (anterior segmental osteotomy)....which is very much commonly done with two-jaw or is part of that surgery.


Hi Madea25,

Thanks for the explanation.  It makes perfect sense that if they push back your lower jaw, they have to realign the upper  jaw. My concern is that if they move up my upper jaw, less of my top teeth will show and the philtrum (the distance between the nose and upper lips ) will look longer. I guess this is where a live consultation would be useful as everyone's face is different...


----------



## vitalic

So is it the consensus on these forums that everM is the best for two jaw surgery? I really liked ID, but there seem to be so many horror stories around it.


----------



## Boy.Buong.Binh

Madea25 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I would like to create this thread for those who want two-jaw surgery or other complex bone surgeries here.
> 
> So far I have heard about Everm, At clinic, and View for their two-jaw.
> 
> If anyone knows any good two-jaw clinics in korea besides ID (heard scary stories), pls share the valued info:]
> 
> Any past patients of these clinics or had two-jaw surgery who would be kind to share your experience and reviews, pls pls pls do so:]
> 
> Thanks!




Hi everyone, 

I will go to korea this April to do 2jaw surgery.
I really like everM and AT clinic, but i don't know which is the best for me.
So i will decide when i have face-to-face consultant.
If you have any information about these 2 clinic, please let me know.
Thanks a lot !!!


----------



## shinyglittery

vitalic said:


> So is it the consensus on these forums that everM is the best for two jaw surgery? I really liked ID, but there seem to be so many horror stories around it.



yes, everyone agrees on that. ID is bad, it's not "horror stories", it's been all over the media, Korean government sued them for false advertising, a huge part of Korean malpractice suits are against ID, anyone reading this forum and going to ID must want to commit suicide.


----------



## shinyglittery

Madea25 said:


> Hello Paxsky:]
> 
> I feel that if ur gums do not show, it is a good thing, but the doctor may need to mess with ur upper and lower teeth attached the jaw.  In other words, to achieve a smaller face, I'm guessing the doctor will need to push ur jaw with chin back substantially.  Since the lower teeth is obviously attached to ur lower jaw, it would move back a lot too along with the moving back of the chin and lower jaw, so the doctor will need to move those lower teeth as well as well as moving the upper jaw into a position that they would align cause if he didn't u would look like a piranha lol.  The moving of the teeth is called ASO (anterior segmental osteotomy)....which is very much commonly done with two-jaw or is part of that surgery.



i want to get v-line, i don't think my chin is too far back, like my mouth isn't slanted back or anything but i have overbite, my upper teeth are in front of my lower teeth. can this be fixed some other way? i really don't want 2j it's such a big procedure. can it just be fixed at the same time as vline somehow?


----------



## vitalic

Boy.Buong.Binh said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I will go to korea this April to do 2jaw surgery.
> I really like everM and AT clinic, but i don't know which is the best for me.
> So i will decide when i have face-to-face consultant.
> If you have any information about these 2 clinic, please let me know.
> Thanks a lot !!!


Would really appreciate information on these two clinics as well! Prices and experience reports would be very helpful!


----------



## Ohhlala

The best surgeon to treat this is a board certified Plastic and Reconstructive surgeon.  They will likely also be very experienced in Maxillofacial surgery.  These days EVERY doctor is trying to do cosmetic surgery even though they haven't done the proper schooling.  By the time a surgeon completes residency in Plastic and Reconstructive surgery they will already have performed hundreds of these surgeries under the best possible supervision, and will have published and done research - and that's before they open their own practice.  Other doctors will claim to have experience but will not have put in the hours and rely on slick advertising.  Always check your doctor's credentials.


----------



## shinyglittery

Ohhlala said:


> The best surgeon to treat this is a board certified Plastic and Reconstructive surgeon.  They will likely also be very experienced in Maxillofacial surgery.  These days EVERY doctor is trying to do cosmetic surgery even though they haven't done the proper schooling.  By the time a surgeon completes residency in Plastic and Reconstructive surgery they will already have performed hundreds of these surgeries under the best possible supervision, and will have published and done research - and that's before they open their own practice.  Other doctors will claim to have experience but will not have put in the hours and rely on slick advertising.  Always check your doctor's credentials.



thank you for posting this, it's so easy to fall for their marketing, must always check their claims... sometimes i get a bad feeling about a dr, i check their website and if it says they're registered with the ISAPS for example then i check the ISAPS website if they're really registered and if their website says they're a member but they're not... that's a really big warning sign i think.


----------



## Boy.Buong.Binh

vitalic said:


> Would really appreciate information on these two clinics as well! Prices and experience reports would be very helpful!




Thanks a lot


----------



## Ohhlala

Agreed!  I'm not as familiar with ISAPS - it's for cosmetic only, so ENTs Gynecologists, etc., who happen to decide they want to practice plastic surgery could be listed there.  I rely on the American Board of Plastic Surgery.  This is the place the surgeons who do actual residencies - university based training post medical school - have to go to test and get certified.  And they can't just take the test: they have to collect a certain number of cases from every category within the discipline and submit all medical records for review, and pass two grueling exams before they can become board certified.  The process usually takes two years following graduation from residency, which can be between 3-5 years in itself.  It is only at that time that they can call themselves a board certified plastic surgeon: https://www.abplsurg.org/ModDefault.aspx?section=SurgeonSearch

If you're looking to do a surgery in the U.S., I wouldn't trust any other certifying organization, personally. 





shinyglittery said:


> thank you for posting this, it's so easy to fall for their marketing, must always check their claims... sometimes i get a bad feeling about a dr, i check their website and if it says they're registered with the ISAPS for example then i check the ISAPS website if they're really registered and if their website says they're a member but they're not... that's a really big warning sign i think.


----------



## shinyglittery

Ohhlala said:


> Agreed!  I'm not as familiar with ISAPS - it's for cosmetic only, so ENTs Gynecologists, etc., who happen to decide they want to practice plastic surgery could be listed there.  I rely on the American Board of Plastic Surgery.  This is the place the surgeons who do actual residencies - university based training post medical school - have to go to test and get certified.  And they can't just take the test: they have to collect a certain number of cases from every category within the discipline and submit all medical records for review, and pass two grueling exams before they can become board certified.  The process usually takes two years following graduation from residency, which can be between 3-5 years in itself.  It is only at that time that they can call themselves a board certified plastic surgeon: https://www.abplsurg.org/ModDefault.aspx?section=SurgeonSearch
> 
> If you're looking to do a surgery in the U.S., I wouldn't trust any other certifying organization, personally.



i'm not going to get my surgeries in the US but if i did, i would try to look into that organization and others but i don't really know how reliable any of them is! but i have seen at least surgerons lie to be ISAPS members and they weren't as well as national associations of surgeons and they weren't so i usually chekc ISAPS and national for the country because if bad surgeons have to lie then at least that means you don't just get membership if you pay them money.


----------



## Madea25

eva_lee said:


> I heard patients died at WhiteClinic and doctors at EverM is from WhiteClinic.
> I heard these clinics are dental clinic, not plastic surgery clinic and there is no plastic surgeon.


woahhh that scary :[ ....have you heard anything else about EverM????! Its good to know these things.


----------



## MrsKing

eva_lee said:


> There is no plastic surgery specialist and it is small clinic i think, maxillofacial surgery is very difficult and dangerous, please avoid new and small clinic for your LIFE.
> Please avoid small clinic for your GA surgery, a patient's airway was got torn at JW  last year because their surgery room facilities are old.
> Currently, a young korean girl is dying after surgery at XXXXX which is famous to us!!!


Please do tell which clinic it is that a young Korean girl is dying? It would help a lot of people here.


----------



## K Couture

oh dear............i totally can't read korean but what exactly was the anesthesia accident? They overdozed her or was it just her body having an allergic reaction and they couldn't resuscitate her in time?


----------



## K Couture

shiny if your overbite is not significant you can get away with just some chin work. I have a slight overbite and was considering moving my lower jaw forward but i was reminded by one of my surgeons that when you only have a slight overbite, such a surgery might alter the way your facial muscles sit and make your lower jaw area look too prominent. I ended up getting a chin implant plus some back teeth work to create more of a spacial divide between my upper and lower jaws. What this did was it changed the way my jaw sits at the relaxed position so i no longer notice any overbite. Much less invasive but its only for people who do not have a signficant overbite.


----------



## Madea25

eva_lee said:


> I asked some korean who live in seoul and they said they have never heard of it.  two jaw surgery is very very dangerouns, how do you guys consider small and no-name clinic for your life? sorry EverM I mentioned you.
> girls and guyes, cost is not all in your life. please consider your big surgery and life.


thanks for the advice... which clinic do you believe is good for two-jaw surgery?


----------



## MaiQ

K Couture said:


> shiny if your overbite is not significant you can get away with just some chin work. I have a slight overbite and was considering moving my lower jaw forward but i was reminded by one of my surgeons that when you only have a slight overbite, such a surgery might alter the way your facial muscles sit and make your lower jaw area look too prominent. I ended up getting a chin implant plus some back teeth work to create more of a spacial divide between my upper and lower jaws. What this did was it changed the way my jaw sits at the relaxed position so i no longer notice any overbite. Much less invasive but its only for people who do not have a signficant overbite.


Hey K Couture, 

Thank you so much for ur helpful advice, as  always  I also only have slight overbite and intending to do a chin implant not 2J. Can you explain a bit more of your back teeth work? If that procedure has a name I'd love to know! That solution sounds awesome because sometimes in relax position my mouth opens which is ugly >"<, so I would love to fix that. Also I suppose the back teeth work must be done by a certified dentist but not a plastic surgeon right? Where did you get it done? 

Thanks a million.


----------



## Yoshieee

eva_lee said:


> I don't know exactly what happen to her but I heard her doctor disappeared and she is dying in coma. pray she get back her good health asap.. T.T



If someone was considering two-jaw, what other clinics can they look into? If EverM isn't good for it, is there a clinic that is?


----------



## shinyglittery

K*Couture: i don't know if it's significant. my upper teeth are in front of my lower teeth. all of them. the part of my lower teeth that is hidden behind my upper teeth is maybe 1mm. there is no space between the teeth, my lower teeth are so close to the back of my upper teeth they almost press against them. almost but not really, they just sit there. for my canine teeth it's more,maybe 2mm. if i try to put my lower and upper teeth together so that neither is behind or in front of the other it feels unnatural and there's a small space between all my upper and lower teeth, like some air in between. in my overbite they sit comfortably and naturally and there's no space between them. it would probably look better if they were fixed but they don't look horrible, i don't think it's that bad. but i feel like it pushes my chin down and forward a lot if i put my upper and lower teeth together so maybe it's not a good idea?

eva_lee never said anyone died at EverM. please go back and read her posts carefully.
i think i remember an anesthesiologist on the everm website but i might be wrong. can someone check it? it is true that it's a dental clinic and not a PS clinic but they do plastic surgery too. a plastic surgeon does not know how to do surgery on jaws and chin without damaging neverse and causing other kinds of damage. a plastic surgeon can specialize in it but a maxillofacial specialist always knows better than a plastic surgeon. a maxillofacial surgeon can also study plastic surgery. can someone check if the drs at EverM have any diplomas in plastic surgery as well?*I am sorry to say I*don't know. 
do not ever let any plastic surgeon who has not studied maxillofacial surgery do your two-jaw. you will risk horrible results and suicide because of it like the girl who couldn't stop crying and couldn't chew properly.
the girl who got brain dead had rhinoplasty at Grand. for some reason they put her under GA though she only needed local anaesthesia. she is now brain dead. people protested in front of the clinic. the clinic didn't even apologize but said that the dr who was responsible no longer works for Grand.


----------



## paxsky

Hi Shiny,
I had a chance to look at Everm website and found the doctors' info on this page:

http://www.everm.net/intro/doctor.jsp

maybe someone will have better luck w/translating, but i see no degree earned for plastic surgery, but an impressive list of degrees, membership, and experience w/ maxillofacial/ oral- surgery/ reconstruction.

I apologize in advance if  any translation mistakes:

Dr. Yoon:
Yonsei University school of dentistry:  graduate and post graduate degrees
Yonsie University dental clinic intern, resident, 
and the rest lists his membership in various organizations.

There are other doctors, Dr. Suh, a lady doctor Im and others.  The funny thing is most of them are graduates of Yonsei University, which is a top university in Korea  (with Seoul University being the best...)  it seems that there's some loyalty to their alma matar.  Researching doctors at differernt clinics, I noticed a pattern where graduates of Seoul University group together and now I noticed that at Everm Yonsei graduates group together.  

Anyway, I think you're absolutely right about going to a dental clinic for 2-jaw surgery for maximum safety. but I think someone mentioned, you might be trading for safety and losing out an aesthetic touch that a good plastic surgeon might have.  but then 2-jaw surgery was supposed to be a "corrective" surgery and  not an aesthetic one.  but in all honesty, most of us, including myself it is more for aethetic reason. there are just some things that regular facial contouring just can't do!  

in any case, if i were interested in just doing 2-jaw and nothing else, everm would be on the top of my list. not only just for safety, and mpressive doctor's credentials but most importantly, his experience- the number of these kinds of surgeries he must have done.  it's probably in the hundreds if not thousands.  i'm thinking he's probably seen it all in term 2-jaw issues.   

my only concern would be that there are other doctors there, who seem to have similar education as Dr. Yoon, but not the experience, which is what counts.  so would be concerned about doctor swap.







shinyglittery said:


> eva_lee never said anyone died at EverM. please go back and read her posts carefully.
> i think i remember an anesthesiologist on the everm website but i might be wrong. can someone check it? it is true that it's a dental clinic and not a PS clinic but they do plastic surgery too. a plastic surgeon does not know how to do surgery on jaws and chin without damaging neverse and causing other kinds of damage. a plastic surgeon can specialize in it but a maxillofacial specialist always knows better than a plastic surgeon. a maxillofacial surgeon can also study plastic surgery. can someone check if the drs at EverM have any diplomas in plastic surgery as well?*I am sorry to say I*don't know.
> do not ever let any plastic surgeon who has not studied maxillofacial surgery do your two-jaw. you will risk horrible results and suicide because of it like the girl who couldn't stop crying and couldn't chew properly.
> the girl who got brain dead had rhinoplasty at Grand. for some reason they put her under GA though she only needed local anaesthesia. she is now brain dead. people protested in front of the clinic. the clinic didn't even apologize but said that the dr who was responsible no longer works for Grand.


----------



## Think.Pink

shinyglittery said:


> k*couture: I don't know if it's significant. My upper teeth are in front of my lower teeth. All of them. The part of my lower teeth that is hidden behind my upper teeth is maybe 1mm. There is no space between the teeth, my lower teeth are so close to the back of my upper teeth they almost press against them. Almost but not really, they just sit there. For my canine teeth it's more,maybe 2mm. If i try to put my lower and upper teeth together so that neither is behind or in front of the other it feels unnatural and there's a small space between all my upper and lower teeth, like some air in between. In my overbite they sit comfortably and naturally and there's no space between them. It would probably look better if they were fixed but they don't look horrible, i don't think it's that bad. But i feel like it pushes my chin down and forward a lot if i put my upper and lower teeth together so maybe it's not a good idea?
> 
> Eva_lee never said anyone died at everm. Please go back and read her posts carefully.
> I think i remember an anesthesiologist on the everm website but i might be wrong. Can someone check it? It is true that it's a dental clinic and not a ps clinic but they do plastic surgery too. A plastic surgeon does not know how to do surgery on jaws and chin without damaging neverse and causing other kinds of damage. A plastic surgeon can specialize in it but a maxillofacial specialist always knows better than a plastic surgeon. A maxillofacial surgeon can also study plastic surgery. Can someone check if the drs at everm have any diplomas in plastic surgery as well?*i am sorry to say i*don't know.
> Do not ever let any plastic surgeon who has not studied maxillofacial surgery do your two-jaw. You will risk horrible results and suicide because of it like the girl who couldn't stop crying and couldn't chew properly.
> The girl who got brain dead had rhinoplasty at grand. For some reason they put her under ga though she only needed local anaesthesia. She is now brain dead. People protested in front of the clinic. The clinic didn't even apologize but said that the dr who was responsible no longer works for grand.


oh my goodness !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Think.Pink

The girl who couldnt stop crying because of the nerve, where did she get her 2 jaw?  Was it at id hospital or grand or where?  The idea of going to a maxillo surgeon is more comforting than say going to a general plastic surgeon.   View's before and after were good but i dont think i am on the same page as them aesthetically.  I saw da's but only a few. Not enough to have an opinion as i will check out their website thoroughly later on this evening...  I saw 3-4 b&a's at white clinic and i was pretty impressed?   I havent seen ever m's....  Anyway,  yikes !!   This is scary..


----------



## Madea25

paxsky said:


> Hi Shiny,
> I had a chance to look at Everm website and found the doctors' info on this page:
> 
> http://www.everm.net/intro/doctor.jsp
> 
> maybe someone will have better luck w/translating, but i see no degree earned for plastic surgery, but an impressive list of degrees, membership, and experience w/ maxillofacial/ oral- surgery/ reconstruction.
> 
> I apologize in advance if  any translation mistakes:
> 
> Dr. Yoon:
> Yonsei University school of dentistry:  graduate and post graduate degrees
> Yonsie University dental clinic intern, resident,
> and the rest lists his membership in various organizations.
> 
> There are other doctors, Dr. Suh, a lady doctor Im and others.  The funny thing is most of them are graduates of Yonsei University, which is a top university in Korea  (with Seoul University being the best...)  it seems that there's some loyalty to their alma matar.  Researching doctors at differernt clinics, I noticed a pattern where graduates of Seoul University group together and now I noticed that at Everm Yonsei graduates group together.
> 
> Anyway, I think you're absolutely right about going to a dental clinic for 2-jaw surgery for maximum safety. but I think someone mentioned, you might be trading for safety and losing out an aesthetic touch that a good plastic surgeon might have.  but then 2-jaw surgery was supposed to be a "corrective" surgery and  not an aesthetic one.  but in all honesty, most of us, including myself it is more for aethetic reason. there are just some things that regular facial contouring just can't do!
> 
> in any case, if i were interested in just doing 2-jaw and nothing else, everm would be on the top of my list. not only just for safety, and mpressive doctor's credentials but most importantly, his experience- the number of these kinds of surgeries he must have done.  it's probably in the hundreds if not thousands.  i'm thinking he's probably seen it all in term 2-jaw issues.
> 
> my only concern would be that there are other doctors there, who seem to have similar education as Dr. Yoon, but not the experience, which is what counts.  so would be concerned about doctor swap.


I believe the other doctor is not a surgeon, but the man who deals with the wafer and less invasive dental procedures such as braces.


----------



## shinyglittery

i can't use this forum very well, it always logs me out, someone else please research everM more. 

thinkpink: i'm sorry, i can't remember which clinic it was. i think i know but i'm not sure so i don't want to say. someone here should know.  yes it's scary... but finding out everything you can helps  when you go to korea your research isn't over, find out more about the doctors, see how they act, how their staff acts, listen to your heart...


----------



## nero19

how long after your 2 jaw surgery can you get a revision?


----------



## vitalic

Went for consultations with ID, Grand, BK and EverM and just decided to go for two-jaw at EverM in a few days. I'll try to post updates unless I feel too terrible to write. The initial quoted price was 14 mil krw but I managed to bargain down a bit. Wish me luck! ^^


----------



## TJ_joy

vitalic said:


> Went for consultations with ID, Grand, BK and EverM and just decided to go for two-jaw at EverM in a few days. I'll try to post updates unless I feel too terrible to write. The initial quoted price was 14 mil krw but I managed to bargain down a bit. Wish me luck! ^^


Good Luck ,hope your surgery go well .


----------



## shinyglittery

vitalic said:


> Went for consultations with ID, Grand, BK and EverM and just decided to go for two-jaw at EverM in a few days. I'll try to post updates unless I feel too terrible to write. The initial quoted price was 14 mil krw but I managed to bargain down a bit. Wish me luck! ^^



Good luck! please update us on how it goes, hope it goes really well!


----------



## HawthornTree

I am actually interested in 2 Jaw as well, and asked DA, they quoted me 7m, which I think bit expensive. did anyone have done 2 jaw before, please share some experience with us ! Appreciate !


----------



## TaRaUnnie

vitalic said:


> Went for consultations with ID, Grand, BK and EverM and just decided to go for two-jaw at EverM in a few days. I'll try to post updates unless I feel too terrible to write. The initial quoted price was 14 mil krw but I managed to bargain down a bit. Wish me luck! ^^



I wish you the best of luck Vitalic~~
I hope everything goes well and you get the results you want  Take care as well ^_^ ~~


----------



## TaRaUnnie

Has anyone had any experience with facial surgery/ies at either Banobagi or TLPS?? I am thinking about doing surgery along this line but when I look around it seems that TLPS and Banobagi (apparently because they don't use screws..) are recommended for facial contouring etc....I would highly appreciate it if someone could give me more information on their or other people experience at these clinics (for any procedure)....
Thanks so much  ~~


----------



## Madea25

vitalic said:


> Went for consultations with ID, Grand, BK and EverM and just decided to go for two-jaw at EverM in a few days. I'll try to post updates unless I feel too terrible to write. The initial quoted price was 14 mil krw but I managed to bargain down a bit. Wish me luck! ^^


WOW good luck!! I am going for two jaw this summer.  Keep us posted. and I wish u the best of luck. I know you will be in good hands:]


----------



## ysh23

I am in Seoul, Korea after having a multitude of procedures done including TJ, VL and Zygoma reduction. Today I am 9 days post-op. If anyone has any questions that could help them, I will gladly answer.


----------



## nero19

anyone who had a revision jaw surgery?
If so how long do you have to wait between surgeries?

ty


----------



## milkychoco

does anyone know if DA and DREAM use absorbable screws and plates? I'd prefer those over titanium. any info would be appreciated


----------



## TaRaUnnie

Here is some useful info Shiny got on clinics.... I don't know the origin or credibility of info (Im not doubting you Shiny!!) but its good for reference 

Links to full-sized images:

http://postimg.org/image/n8gcl6p4l
http://s18.postimg.org/n8gcl6p4l/Clinics_Contactinfo.png

http://postimg.org/image/u06ro1e45/
http://s18.postimg.org/u06ro1e45/psprices.png


----------



## vitalic

Hey guys, just a quick update on my Two Jaw surgery (for facial asymmetry and mandibular prognathism) experience at EverM. It's been 4 days since the surgery and I'm recovering great so far! ^^

A quick run through of what happened:

Day 1:
Went into the surgery at around 12pm and came out around 5pm. Felt pretty bad post GA nausea, cold, heat, sore throat, headache etc. Really wanted to drink water and sleep but this isn't allowed for 4 hours after the surgery. Kept falling asleep and waking up every hour until the next morning. Coughed up blood and phlegm, vomiting ... Pretty bad, but this was all expected.

The nurses speak very limited English, but it's enough to get understood and they are all very nice. Dr Yoon came in and informed me that the surgery went very well!

Day 2:
More of the same, but all the symptoms decreased. Day 1 and 2 were pretty terrible, but felt very happy when I looked in the mirror and saw my asymmetry and proganthism corrected! ^^ Correcting my prognathism also makes it look like I got a really nice nose job! Loving this 

Day 3:
Felt much better. Only major problems are sore throat and stuffy nose. Nasal spray helps, but I'm limited to how much I can use. Disconnected from my IV fluid and feeling good enough to walk around the ward to reduce the swelling. There were three other patients also recovering from Two Jaw. From their name cards, I notice all three of them also had zygoma reduction and V-line surgeries.

Day 4:
Discharged from the clinic. Face very swollen, living on a liquid diet and a bit weary, but recovering quickly. The worst part is over!

Next appt with the doctor is in one week and I'll have my rubber bands on my teeth removed.

Overall, very happy with EverM so far! I've been very satisfied with Dr Yoon from the beginning and haven't been disappointed yet. These past few days have been very very difficult, but looking back, I would do the whole thing all over again in a heartbeat. Can't wait to see what my face will look like once the swelling goes down completely!


----------



## shinyglittery

vitalic said:


> Hey guys, just a quick update on my Two Jaw surgery (for facial asymmetry and mandibular prognathism) experience at EverM. It's been 4 days since the surgery and I'm recovering great so far! ^^
> 
> A quick run through of what happened:
> 
> Day 1:
> Went into the surgery at around 12pm and came out around 5pm. Felt pretty bad post GA nausea, cold, heat, sore throat, headache etc. Really wanted to drink water and sleep but this isn't allowed for 4 hours after the surgery. Kept falling asleep and waking up every hour until the next morning. Coughed up blood and phlegm, vomiting ... Pretty bad, but this was all expected.
> 
> The nurses speak very limited English, but it's enough to get understood and they are all very nice. Dr Yoon came in and informed me that the surgery went very well!
> 
> Day 2:
> More of the same, but all the symptoms decreased. Day 1 and 2 were pretty terrible, but felt very happy when I looked in the mirror and saw my asymmetry and proganthism corrected! ^^ Correcting my prognathism also makes it look like I got a really nice nose job! Loving this
> 
> Day 3:
> Felt much better. Only major problems are sore throat and stuffy nose. Nasal spray helps, but I'm limited to how much I can use. Disconnected from my IV fluid and feeling good enough to walk around the ward to reduce the swelling. There were three other patients also recovering from Two Jaw. From their name cards, I notice all three of them also had zygoma reduction and V-line surgeries.
> 
> Day 4:
> Discharged from the clinic. Face very swollen, living on a liquid diet and a bit weary, but recovering quickly. The worst part is over!
> 
> Next appt with the doctor is in one week and I'll have my rubber bands on my teeth removed.
> 
> Overall, very happy with EverM so far! I've been very satisfied with Dr Yoon from the beginning and haven't been disappointed yet. These past few days have been very very difficult, but looking back, I would do the whole thing all over again in a heartbeat. Can't wait to see what my face will look like once the swelling goes down completely.



i'm happy for you! thank you for the update! please keep us updated as your swelling goes down.


----------



## Madea25

vitalic said:


> Hey guys, just a quick update on my Two Jaw surgery (for facial asymmetry and mandibular prognathism) experience at EverM. It's been 4 days since the surgery and I'm recovering great so far! ^^
> 
> A quick run through of what happened:
> 
> Day 1:
> Went into the surgery at around 12pm and came out around 5pm. Felt pretty bad post GA nausea, cold, heat, sore throat, headache etc. Really wanted to drink water and sleep but this isn't allowed for 4 hours after the surgery. Kept falling asleep and waking up every hour until the next morning. Coughed up blood and phlegm, vomiting ... Pretty bad, but this was all expected.
> 
> The nurses speak very limited English, but it's enough to get understood and they are all very nice. Dr Yoon came in and informed me that the surgery went very well!
> 
> Day 2:
> More of the same, but all the symptoms decreased. Day 1 and 2 were pretty terrible, but felt very happy when I looked in the mirror and saw my asymmetry and proganthism corrected! ^^ Correcting my prognathism also makes it look like I got a really nice nose job! Loving this
> 
> Day 3:
> Felt much better. Only major problems are sore throat and stuffy nose. Nasal spray helps, but I'm limited to how much I can use. Disconnected from my IV fluid and feeling good enough to walk around the ward to reduce the swelling. There were three other patients also recovering from Two Jaw. From their name cards, I notice all three of them also had zygoma reduction and V-line surgeries.
> 
> Day 4:
> Discharged from the clinic. Face very swollen, living on a liquid diet and a bit weary, but recovering quickly. The worst part is over!
> 
> Next appt with the doctor is in one week and I'll have my rubber bands on my teeth removed.
> 
> Overall, very happy with EverM so far! I've been very satisfied with Dr Yoon from the beginning and haven't been disappointed yet. These past few days have been very very difficult, but looking back, I would do the whole thing all over again in a heartbeat. Can't wait to see what my face will look like once the swelling goes down completely!


Thanks for the update! Its very helpful:]


----------



## VIPpatient

vitalic said:


> Hey guys, just a quick update on my Two Jaw surgery (for facial asymmetry and mandibular prognathism) experience at EverM. It's been 4 days since the surgery and I'm recovering great so far! ^^
> 
> A quick run through of what happened:
> 
> Day 1:
> Went into the surgery at around 12pm and came out around 5pm. Felt pretty bad post GA nausea, cold, heat, sore throat, headache etc. Really wanted to drink water and sleep but this isn't allowed for 4 hours after the surgery. Kept falling asleep and waking up every hour until the next morning. Coughed up blood and phlegm, vomiting ... Pretty bad, but this was all expected.
> 
> The nurses speak very limited English, but it's enough to get understood and they are all very nice. Dr Yoon came in and informed me that the surgery went very well!
> 
> Day 2:
> More of the same, but all the symptoms decreased. Day 1 and 2 were pretty terrible, but felt very happy when I looked in the mirror and saw my asymmetry and proganthism corrected! ^^ Correcting my prognathism also makes it look like I got a really nice nose job! Loving this
> 
> Day 3:
> Felt much better. Only major problems are sore throat and stuffy nose. Nasal spray helps, but I'm limited to how much I can use. Disconnected from my IV fluid and feeling good enough to walk around the ward to reduce the swelling. There were three other patients also recovering from Two Jaw. From their name cards, I notice all three of them also had zygoma reduction and V-line surgeries.
> 
> Day 4:
> Discharged from the clinic. Face very swollen, living on a liquid diet and a bit weary, but recovering quickly. The worst part is over!
> 
> Next appt with the doctor is in one week and I'll have my rubber bands on my teeth removed.
> 
> Overall, very happy with EverM so far! I've been very satisfied with Dr Yoon from the beginning and haven't been disappointed yet. These past few days have been very very difficult, but looking back, I would do the whole thing all over again in a heartbeat. Can't wait to see what my face will look like once the swelling goes down completely!


Heyy ! If you are still in seoul and wanna meet up let me know! Im so bored here all by myself


----------



## vitalic

Thank you for the kind words, everyone!

Day 6 post op Two Jaw update:
First night that I was able to sleep for more than 5 hours uninterrupted and it feels good, although I'm still sleep deprived. Still very swollen, but very slowly getting back to normal. 

Bought lots of nutrition shakes, smoothies, fruit, dairy and a blender.

The worst thing so far is not being able to breathe because I'm not supposed to use my nasal spray anymore. Hopefully this goes away soon.


----------



## milkychoco

Lita Oh said:


> Im kinda person who knows most of popular clinics in Korea now and also never heard of the clinic either.



I'm not defending EverM but Grand and ID are popular but they have tons of negative reviews. 

(personally I'm considering DA)


----------



## MaiQ

Lita Oh said:


> Im kinda person who knows most of popular clinics in Korea now and also never heard of the clinic either.




EverM is known around the forum because they are SAFE and Specialised. Unlike grand, id, bk and other big ps 'factories', they are a proper dental clinic and specialise in two jaws and v line only. They don't do nose or eyes. There is no such thing as an all rounder, no clinic is good at everything. I won't personally go there because their changes are subtler than what I expect of the v line, but for those who wants safe two jaw, go check them out! I need to voice out for them because one should NEVER consider grand, bk or id for such risky procedure. Those clinics are very much sued and there are tons of negative reviews about them on here.

Milkychoco: I'm considering DA and a few others too, will probably go in July.


----------



## vitalic

Day 8 post-op (Two Jaw at EverM)
Recovering well. Swelling going down quickly, but still very obviously swollen. Sleeping better and stuffy nose is finally improving so I can breathe better. No major discomforts now. This past week has been one of the toughest things I have ever gone through, and I often felt down and blue, but it's over now and I'm so glad!

Was really lacking energy post-op so started becoming more adventurous with food, putting minced meat, rice and eggs in my blender. It's a day and night's difference! Feeling so much better since eating better. Lost 3kg in the past week, so really ramping up on high calorie foods.

Walking every day a lot (5-8km) around Seoul and I think this is really helping with the swelling.
I'm walking around with a mask on because of the swelling, but I think at this rate, I will be able to walk around without a mask beginning next week without looking too weird. I'll just look like a really chubby person! ^^

Even though I'm very swollen so far, I have to say I'm really loving the results! I love my new profile view and especially the way my nose is accentuated now that my prognathism is fixed. My jaw line is slowly starting to appear from behind the swelling and I think I'll be very happy when all the swelling is gone! ^^ Fixing my prognathism also shortened my face which seems to be filling up my cheeks nicely (they were somewhat sunk and hollow before). My eyes also seem to appear larger with my smaller face. We'll see what happens as the swelling goes down, but I'm really happy that I did this so far! ^^

Doc's appt is on Monday!


----------



## paxsky

vitalic said:


> Day 8 post-op (Two Jaw at EverM)
> Recovering well. Swelling going down quickly, but still very obviously swollen. Sleeping better and stuffy nose is finally improving so I can breathe better. No major discomforts now. This past week has been one of the toughest things I have ever gone through, and I often felt down and blue, but it's over now and I'm so glad!
> 
> Was really lacking energy post-op so started becoming more adventurous with food, putting minced meat, rice and eggs in my blender. It's a day and night's difference! Feeling so much better since eating better. Lost 3kg in the past week, so really ramping up on high calorie foods.
> 
> Walking every day a lot (5-8km) around Seoul and I think this is really helping with the swelling.
> I'm walking around with a mask on because of the swelling, but I think at this rate, I will be able to walk around without a mask beginning next week without looking too weird. I'll just look like a really chubby person! ^^
> 
> Even though I'm very swollen so far, I have to say I'm really loving the results! I love my new profile view and especially the way my nose is accentuated now that my prognathism is fixed. My jaw line is slowly starting to appear from behind the swelling and I think I'll be very happy when all the swelling is gone! ^^ Fixing my prognathism also shortened my face which seems to be filling up my cheeks nicely (they were somewhat sunk and hollow before). My eyes also seem to appear larger with my smaller face. We'll see what happens as the swelling goes down, but I'm really happy that I did this so far! ^^
> 
> Doc's appt is on Monday!


Glad to hear that you are recovering well, and you're seeing good results so far! If you don't mind, can you tell me how your lips are looking?  I'm thinking of getting two-jaw, but I like my lips, but notice that for some people who have this done, their upper lips looks shrunken. I guess they definitely had to adjust the lower jaw, but did they have to adjust your upper jaw as well?

btw, great idea about walking around with a mask, which seems to be normal in Korea... to draw less attention...


----------



## Boy.Buong.Binh

vitalic said:


> Went for consultations with ID, Grand, BK and EverM and just decided to go for two-jaw at EverM in a few days. I'll try to post updates unless I feel too terrible to write. The initial quoted price was 14 mil krw but I managed to bargain down a bit. Wish me luck! ^^



Hi vitalic, 

Can you pm me the price you paid for 2jaw ? 
I like everM too.
Thanks a lot.


----------



## vitalic

paxsky said:


> Glad to hear that you are recovering well, and you're seeing good results so far! If you don't mind, can you tell me how your lips are looking?  I'm thinking of getting two-jaw, but I like my lips, but notice that for some people who have this done, their upper lips looks shrunken. I guess they definitely had to adjust the lower jaw, but did they have to adjust your upper jaw as well?
> 
> btw, great idea about walking around with a mask, which seems to be normal in Korea... to draw less attention...


I had both my jaws adjusted. It's pretty difficult to say what my lips will look like because they are both very swollen  especially the top lip  but I think my lower lip will definitely look smaller since my lower jaw has been pushed back under my top jaw.


----------



## vitalic

Two weeks post op two jaw update:
Feeling better every day. The swelling is going down very slowly at this point and I'm still very swelled up, in my eyes at least. People who know me say I don't look that swelled up.

Everything is going very well so far and these are the things that are still bothering me:
Low energy. This is getting better every day but I think I still only have about 50% of the energy I used to have. If I go out in the morning, I'm dead tired in the afternoon. I think having low energy also makes me moody. I'm usually always happy and optimistic, but I've felt irritable and annoyed quite often in the last two weeks.

Elastics in my mouth. Makes eating and talking annoying. Also changing them is a pain in the *** because my gums have overgrown the hooks and I literally have to tear my gums apart a bit every time I put the elastics on. It bleeds and hurts a lot. Ouch!

I'm still getting stuffy nose and have to use nasal drops to be able to comfortably breathe.

The biggest annoyance, though, is how slowly the swelling seems to be going down. I walk a lot and get the deswelling treatment at EverM everyday, but I'm getting pretty impatient.

In the end, though, I'm still always very happy I had the surgery. There have been so many improvements to my face just from two jaw and all these annoyances will be over eventually.


----------



## Boy.Buong.Binh

vitalic said:


> Two weeks post op two jaw update:
> Feeling better every day. The swelling is going down very slowly at this point and I'm still very swelled up, in my eyes at least. People who know me say I don't look that swelled up.
> 
> Everything is going very well so far and these are the things that are still bothering me:
> Low energy. This is getting better every day but I think I still only have about 50% of the energy I used to have. If I go out in the morning, I'm dead tired in the afternoon. I think having low energy also makes me moody. I'm usually always happy and optimistic, but I've felt irritable and annoyed quite often in the last two weeks.
> 
> Elastics in my mouth. Makes eating and talking annoying. Also changing them is a pain in the *** because my gums have overgrown the hooks and I literally have to tear my gums apart a bit every time I put the elastics on. It bleeds and hurts a lot. Ouch!
> 
> I'm still getting stuffy nose and have to use nasal drops to be able to comfortably breathe.
> 
> The biggest annoyance, though, is how slowly the swelling seems to be going down. I walk a lot and get the deswelling treatment at EverM everyday, but I'm getting pretty impatient.
> 
> In the end, though, I'm still always very happy I had the surgery. There have been so many improvements to my face just from two jaw and all these annoyances will be over eventually.


Hi vitalic, 

I want to know you do sugery under jaw only or both jaws ?
 Thanks.


----------



## vitalic

Boy.Buong.Binh said:


> Hi vitalic,
> 
> I want to know you do sugery under jaw only or both jaws ?
> Thanks.



Both!


----------



## Madea25

vitalic said:


> Two weeks post op two jaw update:
> Feeling better every day. The swelling is going down very slowly at this point and I'm still very swelled up, in my eyes at least. People who know me say I don't look that swelled up.
> 
> Everything is going very well so far and these are the things that are still bothering me:
> Low energy. This is getting better every day but I think I still only have about 50% of the energy I used to have. If I go out in the morning, I'm dead tired in the afternoon. I think having low energy also makes me moody. I'm usually always happy and optimistic, but I've felt irritable and annoyed quite often in the last two weeks.
> 
> Elastics in my mouth. Makes eating and talking annoying. Also changing them is a pain in the *** because my gums have overgrown the hooks and I literally have to tear my gums apart a bit every time I put the elastics on. It bleeds and hurts a lot. Ouch!
> 
> I'm still getting stuffy nose and have to use nasal drops to be able to comfortably breathe.
> 
> The biggest annoyance, though, is how slowly the swelling seems to be going down. I walk a lot and get the deswelling treatment at EverM everyday, but I'm getting pretty impatient.
> 
> In the end, though, I'm still always very happy I had the surgery. There have been so many improvements to my face just from two jaw and all these annoyances will be over eventually.


ur going to look so great!! hang in there! sharing ur experience helps us who need two surgery immensely


----------



## lifeadvice647

ty vitalic for the very useful info, may you have a safe recovery!


----------



## Boy.Buong.Binh

Hi vitalic,
Please tell me how you are now ???


----------



## vitalic

Hi guys, this is exactly three weeks post op, so I thought I'd post an update.

Everything is more or less the same but getting better by the day. Yesterday was the first time I ate some bread since the surgery and that was great! I'm slowly diversifying my diet.

I'm getting my energy back but am still far from feeling as energetic as I used to before the surgery.

I saw my doctor today and he said I was healing very well. I'll have my last appt next Friday, which is when I'll have my screws removed from my mouth.

I also got my eyes done at Teuim yesterday and felt like crap all day, but feel much better today. I thought getting my eyes done would be a piece of cake after two jaw, but it still was pretty tough!

The swelling on my face has decreased quite a bit. I now feel comfortable going out without my mask on. I'm soo happy with how my jaw is turning out. Sometimes I can't keep staring at the mirror! lol

My eyes are really swollen now, but they already look so much prettier than before! ^^ Can't wait until all my swelling is gone.


----------



## MrsKing

vitalic, you are such a brave girl! 2 batches of surgeries in ~3 weeks time with one surgery being 2 jaw, and both end up with great results. How I wish I could be in your shoes.

When you have chance, I'd love to hear your experience with Tieum for eyes. Did they knock you out completely? or were you awake through out the process? What did you do if you don't mind.


----------



## vitalic

MrsKing said:


> vitalic, you are such a brave girl! 2 batches of surgeries in ~3 weeks time with one surgery being 2 jaw, and both end up with great results. How I wish I could be in your shoes.
> 
> When you have chance, I'd love to hear your experience with Tieum for eyes. Did they knock you out completely? or were you awake through out the process? What did you do if you don't mind.


Thank you for the kind words, MrsKing! I'll copy here what I posted in another thread. Hope it's helpful! ^^

Had my eyes done at Teuim yesterday! Magic epi, non-incision double eyelid, fat graft to fix dark circles and a fat graft in my eyelid to fix hollowness. The original quoted price was 5.3 million, but I managed to bargain down a bit. They're pretty tough on bargaining, though. They made me promise to keep my final price secret, but I'd just advise everyone to not be shy about bargaining. It's your hard earned money after all, and the clinic is making loads of money anyway. 

I thought getting my eyes done would be a piece of cake after two jaw, but it still was pretty tough. 

A quick run through of the surgery:
They first took fat from my thighs and then sedated me and began the surgeries. The sedation felt really funny and weird lol. I was having all sorts of weird visions and kept hearing my favorite songs and etc lol. I guess that's what it feels like to be high. After a while this wore off and I came back to reality and could feel everything the doctor was doing to my eyes. It was pretty unnerving, but it didn't hurt so it was fine. 

After a while, though, I started to feel pain. It kept getting worse, so I told Dr Kwon and he gave me more painkillers and we took a short break. Then he came back and finished off. The whole surgery lasted about 3 hours and it felt soo long.

The rest of the day I felt like **** with my eyes hurting and tearing up all the time. I also get very moody from sedation or anesthesia and just felt really bad until the evening. You're supposed to sleep on your back with your head elevated. I always find this very tough so I also had a hard time sleeping.

Today was much better, though, and beside the swelling and a little of pain, there isn't much discomfort.

So far, even though my eyes are really swollen, I really like how they're turning out. They look so much bigger and they're definitely more symmetrical. The fat injections fixed the hollowness wonderfully.

Together with the results from my two jaw, my face looks soo much different from just a month ago. I feel prettier every day and can't wait until all the swelling from my two jaw and eyes goes down! When the nurse took off my bandages from my eyes today the lady at Teuim gasped and said "yeppuda" and that's how I feel! ^^


----------



## MrsKing

Thanks vitalic. Which doctor did your eyes? How many Drs there are good with eyes in Teium?


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## vitalic

MrsKing said:


> Thanks vitalic. Which doctor did your eyes? How many Drs there are good with eyes in Teium?


Dr Kwon did my eyes and he's the only one at Teuim. I think he's really good. Was very impressed with him during the consultation.


----------



## MrsKing

That's real helpful vitalic. I will make sure to consult with him when I am there. You also got me to rethink about doing surgeries in 2 batches just to get Dr. Kwon for my eyes.

I imagine Tieum is extremely busy when you were there? Did you see any older patients (in their 40s-50s) there for their eyes?  Were most patients local korean?


----------



## vitalic

MrsKing said:


> That's real helpful vitalic. I will make sure to consult with him when I am there. You also got me to rethink about doing surgeries in 2 batches just to get Dr. Kwon for my eyes.
> 
> I imagine Tieum is extremely busy when you were there? Did you see any older patients (in their 40s-50s) there for their eyes?  Were most patients local korean?


I think they're pretty busy, but they were able to accommodate me even though my decision was kind of impromptu. I just called them up and they gave me a consultation appt for the next day and then a surgery time for the following day.

Teuim has joined up with AT plastic surgery so there quite a few people in the waiting room, of various ages but I'm not sure which ones were there for Dr Kwon and which ones for AT.

I think most everyone there was Korean when I was there, but I know that they get a lot of foreign patients.

I think getting Dr Kwon really might be worth it. It draws out the surgery process and it's less convenient, but you have only one pair of eyes and I really wanted to make sure to have them done really well! I kept reading the forums here and visited other clinics, but really couldn't figure out who was really good besides Dr Kwon, so I just stuck with him.


----------



## MrsKing

Totally agree with you on choosing Dr. Kwon for eyes vitalic. Did he recommend lateral cantho at all? or are they also shying away from the procedure due to potential complications?


----------



## vitalic

MrsKing said:


> Totally agree with you on choosing Dr. Kwon for eyes vitalic. Did he recommend lateral cantho at all? or are they also shying away from the procedure due to potential complications?


I originally wanted lateral cantho, but Dr Kwon said my eyes were exposed enough on the sides and that it wouldn't increase the size very much.


----------



## Madea25

vitalic said:


> Dr Kwon did my eyes and he's the only one at Teuim. I think he's really good. Was very impressed with him during the consultation.


Hi Vitalic!

How long after two-jaw surgery did Dr. Yoon say you can get your eyes done.  I am really hoping to get under eye fat graft after my two-jaw during my stay in Korea.

Also, How are your facial nerves healing? Is more sensation returning more and more each day?


----------



## vitalic

Madea25 said:


> Hi Vitalic!
> 
> How long after two-jaw surgery did Dr. Yoon say you can get your eyes done.  I am really hoping to get under eye fat graft after my two-jaw during my stay in Korea.
> 
> Also, How are your facial nerves healing? Is more sensation returning more and more each day?


Hi Madea, I actually didn't consult Dr Yoon before getting my eyes done. I just told Dr Kwon that I had two jaw three weeks ago and that I had a lot of swelling on my face in case that needed to be considered for the fat graft. He said it was okay and that he was aware of the swelling.

I think I've been very lucky with my nerves. I had been reading online so much about how people lost their sensation in their lower face for months, but I think I didn't lose much sensation at all. I had slightly reduced sensation on my lower face for two weeks after the surgery and I think I have reduced sensation inside my mouth &#8211; when I gargle, I'm always surprised by how much food comes out that I wasn't aware of &#8211; but otherwise I think I can feel everything. I touch my face all over and I can't find a spot that feels numb or anything like that.

I definitely do have reduced facial motion, though. I can't smile or laugh properly, but it's improving every day and I'm doing the exercises the doctor taught me.

Overall, I'm just really happy with how my recovering is going. I've been reading lots of two jaw surgery blogs, but they were by people who their surgeries done by western doctors and they seemed so much more miserable. I had really low expectations because of the blogs, but overall it hasn't been as bad as the blogs made it out to be.


----------



## AC40

Did someone die after having 2-jaw??


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## MaiQ

AC40 said:


> Did someone die after having 2-jaw??


 
Yes, many. the risk of death is positive. You can search many of these cases on the news. However since they died they probably won't be able to be here to reply.

2-jaw is a dental procedure for those with severe overbite/underbite. It is NOT a cosmetic procedure for an average Joe because it is the most complicated facial osteomy surgery. Please take note that for a normal person a degree of overbite is normal (1-3mm) so theres nothing needed to be fixed. 

There are other bone manipulation procedure that will produce 90% similar results. I have repeatedly urge the risks of two jaws on this forum, don't consider it lightly just because the doctor/website did not mention the risks. For example most PS clinic website says downtime is 2 week for 2 jaw. Such a liar, most 2-jaw patients here will agree with me that it takes MONTHS for your face muscle to move normally, for sensations to be gained partially, also u will be on liquid diets for at least a month to 6 weeks. Be an educated consumer and know what you're into, and talk to local dentists about the risk of this procedure because it's really not a cosmetic procedure.


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## shinyglittery

MaiQ said:


> However since they died they probably won't be able to be here to reply.



I'm sorry, this is a serious matter but this sentence made me laugh


----------



## winterluv000

MaiQ said:


> Yes, many. the risk of death is positive. You can search many of these cases on the news. However since they died they probably won't be able to be here to reply.
> 
> 2-jaw is a dental procedure for those with severe overbite/underbite. It is NOT a cosmetic procedure for an average Joe because it is the most complicated facial osteomy surgery. Please take note that for a normal person a degree of overbite is normal (1-3mm) so theres nothing needed to be fixed.
> 
> There are other bone manipulation procedure that will produce 90% similar results. I have repeatedly urge the risks of two jaws on this forum, don't consider it lightly just because the doctor/website did not mention the risks. For example most PS clinic website says downtime is 2 week for 2 jaw. Such a liar, most 2-jaw patients here will agree with me that it takes MONTHS for your face muscle to move normally, for sensations to be gained partially, also u will be on liquid diets for at least a month to 6 weeks. Be an educated consumer and know what you're into, and talk to local dentists about the risk of this procedure because it's really not a cosmetic procedure.



What other bone manipulation procedure produce similar result as 2 jaw?

I m considering it cos I hv protruding mouth. But I'm really afraid of the down time.


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## MaiQ

winterluv000 said:


> What other bone manipulation procedure produce similar result as 2 jaw?
> 
> I m considering it cos I hv protruding mouth. But I'm really afraid of the down time.


A degree of upper protrusion is normal (1-3mm overbite) It depends on your aesthetic, I cant comment because I don't see you in person, but it will be a combination of chin work (genioplasty or implant), sometime panarasal implant, fat graft etc. You should talk to the doctor during consultation about this protrusion concern and insist your preference not to have 2-jaw. Usually safe clinics, caring and experienced doctor can offer you alternatives such as a combination of procedure to choose instead of insisting on one method.


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## vitalic

Hi guys, just posting a quick update 4 weeks post two jaw! Can't believe it's been almost a month! I'm flying back home tomorrow morning and am really excited to finally get back home.

Most of the discomforts due to the surgery have decreased to the point that they don't really bother me anymore. I still do have to use nasal spray to be able to breathe comfortably, though. I also still notice that I don't have all the energy I used to have. It looks like it will take quite a while before I feel like my old self.

My swelling is also still quite significant and I still feel like I'm looking at someone's else face when I look in the mirror. I definitely don't want to meet my friends for at least another two weeks. Added to this is the swelling from my eyelid surgery, which covers the whole upper part of my face, basically making every feature of my face appear swollen. Needless to say, I still look pretty weird!

I had my last doctor's appt two days ago and he said that everything was excellent. They took my post-op x rays and compared them to the earlier ones, and what a difference has the surgery made!  According to the doc, I won't be needing braces. I'd like to have them eventually to perfect my teeth, though.

In terms of food, I'm eating almost anything I like as long as it's not too chewy or too hard.

At this point, I'm feeling really happy that I've had this done, but I also feel very impatient about the swelling. It's going away sooo slowly. The swelling goes down a lot by the end of the day, though, and when I look in the mirror then, I feel very happy with how everything has turned out. This is pretty goofy, but I also sometimes try pushing and pulling my cheeks to see what my face might look like when the swelling is gone, and it looks it will look really nice once my jawline appears and I don't have puffy cheeks anymore! ^^


----------



## shinyglittery

vitalic said:


> Hi guys, just posting a quick update 4 weeks post two jaw! Can't believe it's been almost a month! I'm flying back home tomorrow morning and am really excited to finally get back home.
> 
> Most of the discomforts due to the surgery have decreased to the point that they don't really bother me anymore. I still do have to use nasal spray to be able to breathe comfortably, though. I also still notice that I don't have all the energy I used to have. It looks like it will take quite a while before I feel like my old self.
> 
> My swelling is also still quite significant and I still feel like I'm looking at someone's else face when I look in the mirror. I definitely don't want to meet my friends for at least another two weeks. Added to this is the swelling from my eyelid surgery, which covers the whole upper part of my face, basically making every feature of my face appear swollen. Needless to say, I still look pretty weird!
> 
> I had my last doctor's appt two days ago and he said that everything was excellent. They took my post-op x rays and compared them to the earlier ones, and what a difference has the surgery made!  According to the doc, I won't be needing braces. I'd like to have them eventually to perfect my teeth, though.
> 
> In terms of food, I'm eating almost anything I like as long as it's not too chewy or too hard.
> 
> At this point, I'm feeling really happy that I've had this done, but I also feel very impatient about the swelling. It's going away sooo slowly. The swelling goes down a lot by the end of the day, though, and when I look in the mirror then, I feel very happy with how everything has turned out. This is pretty goofy, but I also sometimes try pushing and pulling my cheeks to see what my face might look like when the swelling is gone, and it looks it will look really nice once my jawline appears and I don't have puffy cheeks anymore! ^^




Thank you for the update!!


----------



## AC40

Vaitalic do you have before and after pictures???????I really want to see them~


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## paxsky

Researching prices for Korean locals for PS, I came across a price list for 2- Jaw surgery among some clinics and thought it may be of help to someone during negotiations. I can't read all of it, but from top to bottom:

(in korean won )
face dental clinic- 9,500,000
everm- 10,000,000- 12,000,000
wonjin- 10,000,000- 15,000,000
banobagi- 12,000,000- 15,000,000
regen- 13,000,000
faceline- 13,000,000- 15,000.000
grand- 14,000.000
ID- 15,000,000
this doesn't dental care- braces, etc.,  which this listed in the next column. 

It's interesting that the ones with the worst reputation, grand and id, are the ones charging the most.


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## vitalic

Hi guys, just posting a quick 6 week post-op update:
My swelling is still going down very slowly. My left side is noticably more swollen than the other side, but beside me, most people can't tell that I'm swollen, although I do seem a bit puffed up. I still don't feel the same as before surgery in terms of energy, but it's getting better. I guess something new is that last week I had a terrible acne outbreak on my forehead which hasn't happened since I was a teenager. Apparently oily skin and acne is common after two jaw. I also notice that I sometimes feel post-op blues, maybe because I haven't been meeting anyone besides my family for six weeks now.

I think if I had only gotten two jaw, by now I would have been looking pretty normal. The swelling from my eyelid surgery still makes me look pretty weird, though. Besides that, I don't really have complaints. I'm very happy that I had all this done and now I only have to patient and wait for the swelling to go down. I'll start working in two more weeks and I think by then life will be pretty much back to normal for me. It's been such a long and hard process, but it's been very much worth it!


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## MrsKing

Thanks for another update vitalic. I feel that you have a very balanced view and attitude towards the whole ps thing, which is very hard to achieve when one actually goes thru it. You told us the good and not so good sides of the stories and always put things in perspective. Your post serves as a good reminder for me to try to do the same and not get overwhelmed by one factor and lose sight of the whole picture, at all stages of ps: pre, during and past.

Don't worry about the slow recovery of eye lid surgery, which almost always take a long time. I had it done   long time ago and I remembered feeling normal at the 6 months mark.


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## wjiajia

MrsKing said:


> Thanks for another update vitalic. I feel that you have a very balanced view and attitude towards the whole ps thing, which is very hard to achieve when one actually goes thru it. You told us the good and not so good sides of the stories and always put things in perspective. Your post serves as a good reminder for me to try to do the same and not get overwhelmed by one factor and lose sight of the whole picture, at all stages of ps: pre, during and past.
> 
> Don't worry about the slow recovery of eye lid surgery, which almost always take a long time. I had it done   long time ago and I remembered feeling normal at the 6 months mark.



It takes so long? I am now 10 days after removing stitches, 17 days post op! Scar is starting to be a little bit red/brown isn...I was hoping by next week it will be less noticeable that I did double eyelid surgery.....


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## swt_innocent

I had 2 jaw surgery at I.d with dr. park In november, i'm still numb in some places and have to wear braces for a year but I do love the results.  Also,  had veneers(laminates, korean ppl call them that) and he was able to work with it. I had crooked jaw from an accident when I was young and should have had braces then but didn't really know the severity until Dr. Park took x-rays and explained why i had jaw/bite issues. I heard of a lot of korean actresses going through this procedure which got me interested. It was extremely tough, i had my best friend(who is korean) with me for the whole month of recovery in Korea. It's not something I could go through again. The first couple days our death. The weird thing is, i had my nose done in Korea and went on consultations at Banobagi and Grand 6 months before i went back to Korean for 2jaw, both clinics said I didn't need 2jaw.. Good luck everyone, my friend who had it done before me went to Face Line, i think. Her result were good =)  They only do 2jaw and it's located beside Gangnam station


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## swt_innocent

MaiQ said:


> Yes, many. the risk of death is positive. You can search many of these cases on the news. However since they died they probably won't be able to be here to reply.
> 
> 2-jaw is a dental procedure for those with severe overbite/underbite. It is NOT a cosmetic procedure for an average Joe because it is the most complicated facial osteomy surgery. Please take note that for a normal person a degree of overbite is normal (1-3mm) so theres nothing needed to be fixed.
> 
> There are other bone manipulation procedure that will produce 90% similar results. I have repeatedly urge the risks of two jaws on this forum, don't consider it lightly just because the doctor/website did not mention the risks. For example most PS clinic website says downtime is 2 week for 2 jaw. Such a liar, most 2-jaw patients here will agree with me that it takes MONTHS for your face muscle to move normally, for sensations to be gained partially, also u will be on liquid diets for at least a month to 6 weeks. Be an educated consumer and know what you're into, and talk to local dentists about the risk of this procedure because it's really not a cosmetic procedure.


Truth, I was on a liquid diet for 2 weeks and then tofu soup and cake (which was amazing). I stayed in korea for a month for recovery and it is mandatory or you can't get the surgery. I am 6 months post op, and still numb.


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## swt_innocent

shinyglittery said:


> yes, everyone agrees on that. ID is bad, it's not "horror stories", it's been all over the media, Korean government sued them for false advertising, a huge part of Korean malpractice suits are against ID, anyone reading this forum and going to ID must want to commit suicide.


I had 2 jaw surgery at I.D in Nov, and it was filled with locals. The girl I shared a room with for recovery had 2 jaw as well and she was a local. Most koreans know how fatal this surgery can be, and Dr.Park is an expert when it comes maxi-facial/orthognathic, I am amazed with my result and happy I have no complications.


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## swt_innocent

Yoshieee said:


> If someone was considering two-jaw, what other clinics can they look into? If EverM isn't good for it, is there a clinic that is?


Check Face Line at near Gangnam station, they only do 2 jaw surgeries. My friend went there and her results look great. I was gonna go there but i opted for Dr.Park at I.d.


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## Malta

Hi guys, very interesting thread for me. I need to do double jaw surgery ( have really deviated jaws) and looking for the best option. I currently live in Europe, but such surgeries here quite costly and they don't practice surgery first approach. Can someone advice where is best to do this surgery ( for me most important it has to be maximum possible safe place, as this type of surgery is really dangerous I guess). What is approximate price for this type of surgery? Does anyone outside Asia did in Korea? How you were contacting the surgeon in case you had to? How orthodontist in your country was cooperating with the surgeon in Korea to do after surgery treatment? Have a lot of questions if someone already passed threw this would be very happy to get some advices.


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## littlecheetah

swt_innocent said:


> Check Face Line at near Gangnam station, they only do 2 jaw surgeries. My friend went there and her results look great. I was gonna go there but i opted for Dr.Park at I.d.




Hi swt_innocent so how are You do you need braces after your surgery? Did Dr. Park himself operate you ? 
I may need 2 jaw surgery too and since ID was my initial choice till I read about ID swiching doctors etc and the high prices they quoted me via mail I was scared off. 
Will be in Seoul this thursday ^^ (planing on Visiting DAPRS, Wonjin and maybe Banobagi/ BK)
cheers


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## vitalic

Hi guys, 
Back to post a 10-week two jaw (+ double eyelid, under eyes fat graft) post-op update! 

Most things are back to normal. I eat without restrictions and will start work shortly. These are the symptoms I still have:

Swelling: most people who know me can't tell I still have swelling, but I can see I still have swelling left under my nose, on my lower cheeks and a kind of uniform layer of swelling over my jawline. This makes me look like I have a baby face because my features are soft and not sharply defined yet. I'm 21, but people say I look like I'm 16! 

One side of my face is also still more swollen than the other, but I don't see it unless I take pictures of myself or look very carefully in the mirror. Once all this swelling is gone, though, I believe I will look more symmetrical as my current asymmetry is only due to soft tissue.

Energy and strength: My energy levels are much better, but not quite the same as before the surgery. I also still get mood swings sometimes that I didn't use to get before the surgery. My strength levels are way below what they used to be, though. I'm a total weakling &#8211; I used to bike marathons and lift weights, but I tried starting exercising beginning last week and was surprised at how easily got tired. Before the surgery, biking 20km was routine for me, but now 10km nearly kills me.

However, I still am very satisfied with the results. I used to be good looking before the surgery and people used to compliment me, but now the compliments have become much more frequent and forthright. I've even had complete strangers come up to me and tell me I look beautiful. This happened very rarely before the surgery, but now it's not something I become surprised about when I go out. Most people I meet in an informal setting comment on how cute and pretty I look and I find this kind of strange sometimes and am still getting used to it. People who knew me before the surgery say I look like a completely different person and almost don't recognize me when I first meet them.

To myself, I know I look objectively more attractive (fixed asymmetry, bigger eyes, higher nose etc), but I think it will still be a while before I get used to what I see in the mirror. Being the self-critical perfectionist I am, I do find that I'm still not quite satisfied with same aspects of my face. Dr Yoon narrowed my nose because two jaw makes people's noses bigger, but I think my nose still looks a bit too big for my now much smaller face (I hear this is a common thing among two jaw patients). I think my nose might become smaller as the swelling under my nose goes away, though. My cheeks are also sagging somewhat now, although this might go away as the swelling decreases and my fat graft gets reabsorbed.

I can't wait until my swelling is completely gone and I get a sharper V-line jawline, less puffier cheeks and overall a more mature face. I'm enjoying my baby face for now, but I'd much rather look slightly older, mature and sexy than baby-ishly cute like I do now. People say how time flies by after the surgery, but for me, this has been a very long process. It probably feels even longer to me because I got double eyelid done 20 days post op and the swelling for double eyelids goes down really slowly as well. I'm really learning patience from this whole journey and I would caution anyone considering two jaw to expect a long recovery, even though the final results of the surgery are mostly very good.


----------



## Robinrenren

vitalic said:


> Hi guys,
> Back to post a 10-week two jaw (+ double eyelid, under eyes fat graft) post-op update!
> 
> Most things are back to normal. I eat without restrictions and will start work shortly. These are the symptoms I still have:
> 
> Swelling: most people who know me can't tell I still have swelling, but I can see I still have swelling left under my nose, on my lower cheeks and a kind of uniform layer of swelling over my jawline. This makes me look like I have a baby face because my features are soft and not sharply defined yet. I'm 21, but people say I look like I'm 16!
> 
> One side of my face is also still more swollen than the other, but I don't see it unless I take pictures of myself or look very carefully in the mirror. Once all this swelling is gone, though, I believe I will look more symmetrical as my current asymmetry is only due to soft tissue.
> 
> Energy and strength: My energy levels are much better, but not quite the same as before the surgery. I also still get mood swings sometimes that I didn't use to get before the surgery. My strength levels are way below what they used to be, though. I'm a total weakling  I used to bike marathons and lift weights, but I tried starting exercising beginning last week and was surprised at how easily got tired. Before the surgery, biking 20km was routine for me, but now 10km nearly kills me.
> 
> However, I still am very satisfied with the results. I used to be good looking before the surgery and people used to compliment me, but now the compliments have become much more frequent and forthright. I've even had complete strangers come up to me and tell me I look beautiful. This happened very rarely before the surgery, but now it's not something I become surprised about when I go out. Most people I meet in an informal setting comment on how cute and pretty I look and I find this kind of strange sometimes and am still getting used to it. People who knew me before the surgery say I look like a completely different person and almost don't recognize me when I first meet them.
> 
> To myself, I know I look objectively more attractive (fixed asymmetry, bigger eyes, higher nose etc), but I think it will still be a while before I get used to what I see in the mirror. Being the self-critical perfectionist I am, I do find that I'm still not quite satisfied with same aspects of my face. Dr Yoon narrowed my nose because two jaw makes people's noses bigger, but I think my nose still looks a bit too big for my now much smaller face (I hear this is a common thing among two jaw patients). I think my nose might become smaller as the swelling under my nose goes away, though. My cheeks are also sagging somewhat now, although this might go away as the swelling decreases and my fat graft gets reabsorbed.
> 
> I can't wait until my swelling is completely gone and I get a sharper V-line jawline, less puffier cheeks and overall a more mature face. I'm enjoying my baby face for now, but I'd much rather look slightly older, mature and sexy than baby-ishly cute like I do now. People say how time flies by after the surgery, but for me, this has been a very long process. It probably feels even longer to me because I got double eyelid done 20 days post op and the swelling for double eyelids goes down really slowly as well. I'm really learning patience from this whole journey and I would caution anyone considering two jaw to expect a long recovery, even though the final results of the surgery are mostly very good.



thank you so much for your continuing update .. 10 weeks so far ! amazing ! .. but can you tell me a bit more about the 'big nose stuff' after the 2-jaw surgery ... it's kind of shocking .. is it right our noses will get bigger afterward or they will become normal as original after all the swellings have gone?


----------



## Robinrenren

by the way, I am considering have a 2-jaw surgery in Jan 2015 .. is it a low season or high season for PS?? as I don;t wanna come to seoul in high season because surgeons might be very busy and exhausted. thus not being able to perform best!


----------



## davincci

Hi Vitalic,

Glad to hear everything is well! I'm going to see Dr Yoon for the 2nd time in Sep and very likely I'll be doing 2-jaw with him next year.

Got some ques regarding your fat graft. How's the effect so far? any absorption? I have dark circles problem as well. Did your FG fix the problem? How long did it take for your swelling from FG to come down?

Do you think 3-weeks is enough between jaw surgery and FG? 

Thanks loads!


----------



## Robinrenren

sim_vivian said:


> Hi, Robinrenren
> 
> I had double jaw surgery last week and I am waiting for recovery.
> My consultation said Jan is high peak season because korean university goes winter vacation from mid of dec. to end of feb. doctors may tired of busy surgery schedule, so i recommend you not to go jan. for the best result!!!



thanks, Vivian! then I think March or April would be great ! 

and how is your recovery now ? btw, where did you have the surgery?


----------



## wrong PS

Just to double confirm...
i have been doing research..
2 jaw surgery is for correcting mouth protrusion right?

This is how mouth protrusion surgery works right?

http://eng.regen.co.kr/03/0303_01.asp


----------



## littlecheetah

Hi guys, 
here's my review on 2-jaw surgery with EverM.



From where did I start:
I had severe prognathism all my life, but didn't really understand what it is as it doesn't occur in Europe that frequently thus doctors aren't really experienced with it.
Surgeons in Europe blamed my chin for my indisposition and so I ended up having 2 chin surgeries which worsened my situation.
The last surgeon enlarged my chin, and I couldn't feel a big portion of my lower face anymore...


Before coming to Seoul I researched for over a year, and contacted various clinics.
I didn't want to waste my time in Seoul by having one consultation after the other so I shortlisted a long list of clinics to only a few;
Apparently there are hundreds of clinics here surpassing each other in promises, prices and poshness, and after several surgeries which didn't turn out well for me, I was only interested in real results and safety .

I won't go into detail with all the talking and contact I had with each clinic,
but one in particular sticked out leaving me with a very negative feeling.


DAPRS: 
Fancy clinic, Before and Afters made me want to visit them very badly
I went there with two friends of mine.
Atmosphere: As some other forumers already mentioned: I didn't feel good there. The girls working there not only for me looked fake and not really attractive at all, they were somewhat sneaky and I felt oppressed
The Doctor was a lot nicer then the girls there but still he didn't take much time and effort to explain anything .
And who runs this clinic btw?? 
For the price they quoted me I was not satisfied with that whole package at all...
Aside from that, I wanted to have my chin corrected too, and the doc said it is NOT POSSIBLE after my genio.
Apropos CT- They made my pay 100,000 KRW for a CT-disk which I never get.
The consultant looked at me in disbelieve as I asked her for it: She told me she sents me a mail with the CT and fobbed me off with this I went away with my girls as I was so shocked of the weird and arrogant behavior .
Next day I wrote her I would get the CT disk first thing in the morning, 
but she replied that she had already sent it to me by mail. lol.100 $ for a mail? 
I went there with my friend and told her I'd like to have the disk I payed for and which she had promoted me so eagerly. 
She didn't like I came, left for 15 minutes, as she came back I stood up and the consultant just snubbed me, "sit down!"
She told me they don't have any disks, I can buy on my own if I want.


You might say that's a very subjective view, but my friends had the same feeling, and if you read peterpans review for example, you will see i'm not alone with my impression.


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## littlecheetah

The next day, in contrast to DA clinic, I walked into a clinic that left me with an amazing feeling.
My friend brought me there.
EverM.
Btw my friend is a forumer, I'm so thankful she came with me, as she was translating for me and supporting me, all day long.
I came to EverM at 12 and stayed till about 4, that's how much time they invested in me.
I simply LOVED EverM from the very beginning. They are honest and charming. The girls working there were lovely and attractive and natural, no false attitude, no interrogation, no "how much money do you have with you? That's how much you gonna pay  " as asked by other clinics,&#8230;.

I felt totally safe there and felt it could be just the right place from the very beginning.
They not only did CT but also pictures of the inside of my mouth and even more.
I was so impressed by the effort they were making and time they invested.
The Doctor was not only  sweet and humble he was extremely accurate and explained to me precisely what was wrong with my jaw, where exact angles should be etc. 
I felt he would sit there with me forever, he was so patient.
He was constantly referring to my pictures, to my CT, he always made sure I understood everything he was saying.
HE would be able to fix my chin too (remember, at Daprs the surgeon said he cannot fix my chin). 

Btw, it's not just a rumor, they indeed have a laminated price list. They are very honest and the price they quoted me was very reasonable and fair. 

So I left a deposit (in USD bec. at that time I only had little KWON) and my friend accompanied me to another clinic nearby where they made X-ray of my chest, blood, checked heart&#8230;.and so on, and after that they took dental imprints of me and at EverM another doctor who was also very nice additionally spend a huge amount of time with me, explaining every detail of the surgery and then they together discussed the best surgery method for me, so they could fix all my problems at once.

They also explained  that normally the nose gets wider after 2-jaw so they would use some Nasal alar cinch suture to prevent the nose from widening. They would remove my old screws and use absorbable ones instead.

The doctor checked my TMJ and also asked if I am numb from my previous surgeries, he promised it would not get worse  I was relieved ^^

The Girl working there, and which I would see now almost every day for a long time, Gahee is such a beautiful and lovely girl, she's fantastic and made sure I never felt alone. 

She wanted to have the telephone number of my host in case of emergency and said she would go buy medicine with me afterwards If I needed help.
She even proposed me If I cannot stay at my place she would come and help me with my luggage!!!! 
I am so thankful that I could go with EverM, and Gahee is a friend now, I miss her really.



Surgery Day:
12 hours fast, changed into their clothes and relaxed at my room at the ward, watching Tv.
The rooms are super nice. Theres a flat screen, computer, and a board for the time after surgery where you can write or draw what you need haha!!! so nice 
They made an allergy test and I got a reaction to it and almost passed out.
That's the moment I realized it gets serious.
The anesthesiologist was super nice too he as the other doctors speaks indeed a little bit of english and informed me that he checked my results (so thorough!) and that I'm healthy yeyyyy ^^ 
Surgery room: got a mask and had to breath in the gases. I hated it but was already very sensitive and scared, although everyone was very supportive and caring.


Post op: 
I had to try stay awake for 4 hours after surgery, and use ice packs. It didn't work out for me cause I was so weak. I "secretly" fell asleep from time to time.
I couldn't move my hands cause I was so weak, ice packs weighed too much at that point lol. 
To be honest I felt really bad.

All my doctors came to see me after the surgery and Dr. Yoon said the surgery was successful.
I was so relieved and thankful to be at EverM, to have such good after care and not be in a big factory clinic at that point, I don't know if I would have made it anywhere else, I'm serious.

You need good aftercare. You need that fantastic surgeon that even though he has so much work to do, comes to see how you are afterwards, everyday, and who takes safety seriously; I found this at EverM.
I don't remember much what happened afterwards. I slept a lot, I felt miserable, but at the same time I was happy being able to drink again, watch TV, was happy the doctors came to see if I'm fine, that the nurses treated me so nicely, that Gahee stopped by
and that my roommate was so nice.


Day 3 :
By that time I felt I'm going to be fine, and that
the worst is over. ^^ that was so wrong.
My other doc took out my drain tubes which was bearable.
But then he had to position my teeth manually and wired them.
It hurt so much,  I cried so badly.
The Doc was there for me though and said everything will be ok and that he felt sorry.
At my room I got a panic attack of that pain and was shocked to have my mouth wired shut for 2 weeks from now on. 
My nose was swollen I couldn't breath properly; 
They have methods for this though&#8230;.they are not enjoyable, but you will want them to apply as it helps you breathing.



I stayed 4 days at the hospital, I didn't need to do any negotiations on that. 
Which is strange as 2 other clinics had told me via mail its only 1 to 2 days hospitalization, after that you pay&#8230;&#8230;.

The day before discharge a nurse handed me a paper with post- surgery instructions but recapitulated every point with me, in english.
She even went to the pharmacy for me and bought me my medicine, so I didn't need to go by myself.



Today, Day 6:
I sleep elevated.
Drink pumpkin juice and look like one.
I must add, pumpkin juice is healthy -hopefully )))) -  but not tasty at all! 
They said I must stay in Seoul for 5 to 6 weeks.
I bought some multivitamin supplements and hope I can go home by the 4 week mark.
Vitalic gave me much hope on that one 
After wiring my mouth I started snoring very badly.
That disappears a little now.
I have sense and feel every part of my face as before, Dr. Yoon kept his promise, I haven't lost any sensation at all.
I have to admit I'm not walking around really much as my nose gets more swollen and I'm struggling for air after 15 minutes out on the street. Wearing a mask and having tissues and toilet paper always ready, bec. blood is coming out of the nose. 
I guess tomorrow I should stop using my Nose spray, so I hope breathing will be easier till then; Right now I don't think I can live without it 
Btw: My nose didn't get any wider. It looks very nice. 

Day 7: 
I had a little infection but went to the clinc and we changed my antibiotics and its fine now;
Gahee told me I can come to the clinic whenever I feel like it.


Day 9
Stiches out. 
This was done by someone very nice. He did it so careful and gentle, I didn't feel anything at all most of the time.
Surprisingly my wires have been removed today too. I have rubber bands now and have to practice opening and closing my mouth.


Day 11
I can open my moth 2 cm now.
Closing my mouth gets easier now.

Day 12.
Ate Soup with Dumpling. Finally real food !!!! )

Day 13: 
Doc said I'm closing my mouth not properly, closing is more important than opening. ;( Check up soon.

Day 14:
I feel I have a lot more power already. I'm getting better in chewing.

Day 16: 
They wired me again, it's for the better, as I still have a small gap between my teeth.
Back to liquid diet, I was not prepared for this today ;(

Day 21: 
No wBK ires, no rubber bands ) I eat chicken sticks, noodles,&#8230;almost everything;
no kimchi, no rice cake 

Day 28: Screw removal  Didn't hurt at all. I'm happy.
They showed me post op x rays, and compared them to previous ones and I couldn't believe what a huge improvement the surgery made. There's still significant swelling though. 

As It's 4 weeks now, and everything healing fine, I can fly back home. 
I took some pictures before surgery on my own and I look so much better now.
Talking feels much easier than before surgery as well. I feel relieved. My life changes for the better now.


Week 6 update: 
I cannot comment enough on how I love EverM them and how thankful I am.
I don't have to worry about my bite anymore,
every day I feel so much more at ease.
I eat everything now, but very careful.
I love it !!!!!!


----------



## wrong PS

littlecheetah said:


> The next day, in contrast to DA clinic, I walked into a clinic that left me with an amazing feeling.
> My friend brought me there.
> EverM.
> Btw my friend is a forumer, I'm so thankful she came with me, as she was translating for me and supporting me, all day long.
> I came to EverM at 12 and stayed till about 4, that's how much time they invested in me.
> I simply LOVED EverM from the very beginning. They are honest and charming. The girls working there were lovely and attractive and natural, no false attitude, no interrogation, no "how much money do you have with you? That's how much you gonna pay  " as asked by other clinics,.
> 
> I felt totally safe there and felt it could be just the right place from the very beginning.
> They not only did CT but also pictures of the inside of my mouth and even more.
> I was so impressed by the effort they were making and time they invested.
> The Doctor was not only  sweet and humble he was extremely accurate and explained to me precisely what was wrong with my jaw, where exact angles should be etc.
> I felt he would sit there with me forever, he was so patient.
> He was constantly referring to my pictures, to my CT, he always made sure I understood everything he was saying.
> HE would be able to fix my chin too (remember, at Daprs the surgeon said he cannot fix my chin).
> 
> Btw, it's not just a rumor, they indeed have a laminated price list. They are very honest and the price they quoted me was very reasonable and fair.
> 
> So I left a deposit (in USD bec. at that time I only had little KWON) and my friend accompanied me to another clinic nearby where they made X-ray of my chest, blood, checked heart.and so on, and after that they took dental imprints of me and at EverM another doctor who was also very nice additionally spend a huge amount of time with me, explaining every detail of the surgery and then they together discussed the best surgery method for me, so they could fix all my problems at once.
> 
> They also explained  that normally the nose gets wider after 2-jaw so they would use some Nasal alar cinch suture to prevent the nose from widening. They would remove my old screws and use absorbable ones instead.
> 
> The doctor checked my TMJ and also asked if I am numb from my previous surgeries, he promised it would not get worse  I was relieved ^^
> 
> The Girl working there, and which I would see now almost every day for a long time, Gahee is such a beautiful and lovely girl, she's fantastic and made sure I never felt alone.
> 
> She wanted to have the telephone number of my host in case of emergency and said she would go buy medicine with me afterwards If I needed help.
> She even proposed me If I cannot stay at my place she would come and help me with my luggage!!!!
> I am so thankful that I could go with EverM, and Gahee is a friend now, I miss her really.
> 
> 
> 
> Surgery Day:
> 12 hours fast, changed into their clothes and relaxed at my room at the ward, watching Tv.
> The rooms are super nice. Theres a flat screen, computer, and a board for the time after surgery where you can write or draw what you need haha!!! so nice
> They made an allergy test and I got a reaction to it and almost passed out.
> That's the moment I realized it gets serious.
> The anesthesiologist was super nice too he as the other doctors speaks indeed a little bit of english and informed me that he checked my results (so thorough!) and that I'm healthy yeyyyy ^^
> Surgery room: got a mask and had to breath in the gases. I hated it but was already very sensitive and scared, although everyone was very supportive and caring.
> 
> 
> Post op:
> I had to try stay awake for 4 hours after surgery, and use ice packs. It didn't work out for me cause I was so weak. I "secretly" fell asleep from time to time.
> I couldn't move my hands cause I was so weak, ice packs weighed too much at that point lol.
> To be honest I felt really bad.
> 
> All my doctors came to see me after the surgery and Dr. Yoon said the surgery was successful.
> I was so relieved and thankful to be at EverM, to have such good after care and not be in a big factory clinic at that point, I don't know if I would have made it anywhere else, I'm serious.
> 
> You need good aftercare. You need that fantastic surgeon that even though he has so much work to do, comes to see how you are afterwards, everyday, and who takes safety seriously; I found this at EverM.
> I don't remember much what happened afterwards. I slept a lot, I felt miserable, but at the same time I was happy being able to drink again, watch TV, was happy the doctors came to see if I'm fine, that the nurses treated me so nicely, that Gahee stopped by
> and that my roommate was so nice.
> 
> 
> Day 3 :
> By that time I felt I'm going to be fine, and that
> the worst is over. ^^ that was so wrong.
> My other doc took out my drain tubes which was bearable.
> But then he had to position my teeth manually and wired them.
> It hurt so much,  I cried so badly.
> The Doc was there for me though and said everything will be ok and that he felt sorry.
> At my room I got a panic attack of that pain and was shocked to have my mouth wired shut for 2 weeks from now on.
> My nose was swollen I couldn't breath properly;
> They have methods for this though.they are not enjoyable, but you will want them to apply as it helps you breathing.
> 
> 
> 
> I stayed 4 days at the hospital, I didn't need to do any negotiations on that.
> Which is strange as 2 other clinics had told me via mail its only 1 to 2 days hospitalization, after that you pay.
> 
> The day before discharge a nurse handed me a paper with post- surgery instructions but recapitulated every point with me, in english.
> She even went to the pharmacy for me and bought me my medicine, so I didn't need to go by myself.
> 
> 
> 
> Today, Day 6:
> I sleep elevated.
> Drink pumpkin juice and look like one.
> I must add, pumpkin juice is healthy -hopefully )))) -  but not tasty at all!
> They said I must stay in Seoul for 5 to 6 weeks.
> I bought some multivitamin supplements and hope I can go home by the 4 week mark.
> Vitalic gave me much hope on that one
> After wiring my mouth I started snoring very badly.
> That disappears a little now.
> I have sense and feel every part of my face as before, Dr. Yoon kept his promise, I haven't lost any sensation at all.
> I have to admit I'm not walking around really much as my nose gets more swollen and I'm struggling for air after 15 minutes out on the street. Wearing a mask and having tissues and toilet paper always ready, bec. blood is coming out of the nose.
> I guess tomorrow I should stop using my Nose spray, so I hope breathing will be easier till then; Right now I don't think I can live without it
> Btw: My nose didn't get any wider. It looks very nice.
> 
> Day 7:
> I had a little infection but went to the clinc and we changed my antibiotics and its fine now;
> Gahee told me I can come to the clinic whenever I feel like it.
> 
> 
> Day 9
> Stiches out.
> This was done by someone very nice. He did it so careful and gentle, I didn't feel anything at all most of the time.
> Surprisingly my wires have been removed today too. I have rubber bands now and have to practice opening and closing my mouth.
> 
> 
> Day 11
> I can open my moth 2 cm now.
> Closing my mouth gets easier now.
> 
> Day 12.
> Ate Soup with Dumpling. Finally real food !!!! )
> 
> Day 13:
> Doc said I'm closing my mouth not properly, closing is more important than opening. ;( Check up soon.
> 
> Day 14:
> I feel I have a lot more power already. I'm getting better in chewing.
> 
> Day 16:
> They wired me again, it's for the better, as I still have a small gap between my teeth.
> Back to liquid diet, I was not prepared for this today ;(
> 
> Day 21:
> No wBK ires, no rubber bands ) I eat chicken sticks, noodles,almost everything;
> no kimchi, no rice cake
> 
> Day 28: Screw removal  Didn't hurt at all. I'm happy.
> They showed me post op x rays, and compared them to previous ones and I couldn't believe what a huge improvement the surgery made. There's still significant swelling though.
> 
> As It's 4 weeks now, and everything healing fine, I can fly back home.
> I took some pictures before surgery on my own and I look so much better now.
> Talking feels much easier than before surgery as well. I feel relieved. My life changes for the better now.
> 
> 
> Week 6 update:
> I cannot comment enough on how I love EverM them and how thankful I am.
> I don't have to worry about my bite anymore,
> every day I feel so much more at ease.
> I eat everything now, but very careful.
> I love it !!!!!!




how much does the surgery cost?
Those scanning is it included in the cost or extra?


----------



## Bingu

Thank you SO much everyone for sharing info here, and *vitalic *and *littlecheetah *for sharing your stories!!
I'm trying to gather information to find clinics to consult with for surgery to reduce mouth protrusion. Any other safe and good clinics for bimaxillary ASO?

I'm hoping to travel to Korea in April 2015.

How is the english skill level at EverM? I don't know if I'd have a friend or translator with me and during consultation (and beyond, if I decide to do a procedure with them) I want to make sure we can fully communicate.

How did you prepare? What do you suggest to have or buy - vitamins? mask? other stuff?

What hotel or guesthouse did you stay at, is it nearby?


----------



## davincci

Bingu said:


> Thank you SO much everyone for sharing info here, and *vitalic *and *littlecheetah *for sharing your stories!!
> I'm trying to gather information to find clinics to consult with for surgery to reduce mouth protrusion. Any other safe and good clinics for bimaxillary ASO?
> 
> I'm hoping to travel to Korea in April 2015.
> 
> How is the english skill level at EverM? I don't know if I'd have a friend or translator with me and during consultation (and beyond, if I decide to do a procedure with them) I want to make sure we can fully communicate.
> 
> How did you prepare? What do you suggest to have or buy - vitamins? mask? other stuff?
> 
> What hotel or guesthouse did you stay at, is it nearby?


 
Dr Yoon from EverM doesn't speak English and they do not have an English consultant. They do have a Mandarin speaking translator, Gahee.


----------



## mickely

Hi guys,  I m contemplating 2 jaw surgery too along with zygoma and mandibular  reduction  to fix my facial asymmetry. For those who had surgery.  Can I know how u guys paid for  the surgical cost given the huge amount? Did u do Telegraphic transfer or cash or credit?


----------



## b.Jane

swoon_ca said:


> Hi everyone, I would like to post about my experience with 2 jaw surgery and v-line. Initially I was not planning to b/c I'm lazy... But I felt it was my duty to report back b/c I feel like there was a lack of ppl who posted about their successful surgery on this forum. Hopefully, this post will be helpful to someone out there. I will not respond to private msgs (I dont have enough posts to respond anyways) or answers any questions after this but I will make this post detailed!
> 
> I know a lot of ppl go to Korea for surgery but when I did my research, the vibe I was getting was that it&#8217;s like a factory there. No personal services, doctors are too busy and patients are rushed. I don't know if this is true b/c I&#8217;ve never been there personally but it scared the **** out of me. So after LOTS of research, I went to Taiwan to do my surgery with Dr. Hsieh of charm cosmetic.
> 
> 
> Procedures:
> 1.      - 2 jaw
> 2.      - V-line
> 
> 
> Results:
> 1.     -  Surgery was a success (I&#8217;m SUPER happy)
> 2.     -  I look amazing and I can&#8217;t stop staring at the mirror b/c I keep looking better every day as the swollen resides!
> 3.    -   The only thing I would complain about is my nose. With any 2 jaw surgery, if your upper jaw is pushed forward, your nose will change; usually the nose gets wider. I was aware of this prior to surgery as I&#8217;ve done extensive research. The doctor said he would use &#8220;Nasal alar cinch suture&#8221; to prevent it from changing but I did find my nose did still get wider.  I noticed my nose also projects further away from my face and tilts slightly up which I like!
> 
> Skill Level:  1.    -   Dr. Hseish is crazy (in a good way). I saw a lot of post-surgery pics online and boy they all looked bad. Long and behold, I had absolutely NO bruises on my face after surgery&#8230; that&#8217;s how good he is.
> 2.    -   During my consultation, I was amused to see how excited he was to do this surgery. You know a doctor is good when there is lots of passion involved.
> 
> Mannerism of the clinic:  1.    -   The ladies at the clinics don&#8217;t speak much English except for the dentist assistant and Dr. Hsieh assistant. These 2 lovely ladies were absolutely sweet to me! I was all alone when I did this surgery but they cared for me like I was a friend and it was so touching as none of my family could be with me.   I didn&#8217;t have a cell phone so they even offered to let me bring the clinic&#8217;s ipad back to my hotel with me so I could communicate with them via email after my surgery.
> 2.     -  I had to wait maybe 30 mins to an hour to see Dr. Hsieh for our initial consultation. I think it&#8217;s b/c he takes time with each patient. He spent a lot of time with me as well.
> 3.     -  I had to take my blood prior to the surgery. I got a little scared when the nurse took my blood. When she pulled the needle out of my arm, she didn&#8217;t put a bandage on top right away so blood leaked on the table.. I&#8217;m terrified of blood but it wasn&#8217;t like she was my surgeon so I didn&#8217;t worry too much about it.
> 
> 
> Post surgery experience
> 1.     -  Surgery was a breeze, but post surgery was hard. Maybe b/c I was by myself in a hotel? I dunno, but it was not easy.
> 2.     -  It was one of the toughest 5 days of my life. It was hard to take liquids in. It was hard to breath. I had a lot of discomforts with eating so I simply didn&#8217;t eat. It hurt to pee b/c they use an urine catheter during surgery. SIGH* it was tough. But after the first week, it was easy J
> 3.     -  By 1.5 weeks, I could eat soft solids. By 2 weeks, I could eat bananas. By 3 weeks I was eating again. By 4 weeks, I was eating everything.
> 
> 
> Surgery Complications:
> 1.    -   My right side healed faster than my left, which made me look like my face and lips was crooked. I was extremely worried  but 2 months later and it has returned 90% back to normal and it will probably recover fully since I am still swollen on the left side.
> 2.    -   My lips were huge after surgery but that&#8217;s not what worried me. What worried me was after 1 week they began to shrink! I&#8217;m talking smaller than they were before. This made NO sense to me but I never addressed it to my surgeon. I thought, maybe it was just me. So I flew back home 3 weeks after my surgery and my parents and bf thought the same thing.. My lips were tiny! I have no explanation for this being 2 months post-surgery, they have returned to their normal size.. BIG phew*
> 3.    -   I really love my smile but after the surgery my smile changed to this ugly joker smile.  I was patient though as I know the swollenness in the face alters the smile. 1 month post op, my smile was not back and I was really depressed thinking it was permanently stuck like this. 2 months post op, my smile is back to normal!
> 4.    -   I had a sharp pain in my left ear after surgery every time I drank cold water or orange juice (probably a nerve issue). The nurses and doctor told me it would go away and it did eventually.
> 5.    -   I had many more worries while I was healing but all of these problems were temporary so if you&#8217;re planning to get 2 jaw, please be patient and try not to worry as much as me.
> 
> 
> Good luck to all the gals getting jaw surgery + vline. It&#8217;s not as scary as everyone makes it. It was the best decision of my life and I would do it again a million times.


Hi, I messaged you


----------



## cherrycreamsoda

swoon_ca said:


> Hi everyone, I would like to post about my experience with 2 jaw surgery and v-line. Initially I was not planning to b/c I'm lazy... But I felt it was my duty to report back b/c I feel like there was a lack of ppl who posted about their successful surgery on this forum. Hopefully, this post will be helpful to someone out there. I will not respond to private msgs (I dont have enough posts to respond anyways) or answers any questions after this but I will make this post detailed!
> 
> I know a lot of ppl go to Korea for surgery but when I did my research, the vibe I was getting was that it&#8217;s like a factory there. No personal services, doctors are too busy and patients are rushed. I don't know if this is true b/c I&#8217;ve never been there personally but it scared the **** out of me. So after LOTS of research, I went to Taiwan to do my surgery with Dr. Hsieh of charm cosmetic.
> 
> 
> Procedures:
> 1.      - 2 jaw
> 2.      - V-line
> 
> 
> Results:
> 1.     -  Surgery was a success (I&#8217;m SUPER happy)
> 2.     -  I look amazing and I can&#8217;t stop staring at the mirror b/c I keep looking better every day as the swollen resides!
> 3.    -   The only thing I would complain about is my nose. With any 2 jaw surgery, if your upper jaw is pushed forward, your nose will change; usually the nose gets wider. I was aware of this prior to surgery as I&#8217;ve done extensive research. The doctor said he would use &#8220;Nasal alar cinch suture&#8221; to prevent it from changing but I did find my nose did still get wider.  I noticed my nose also projects further away from my face and tilts slightly up which I like!
> 
> Skill Level:  1.    -   Dr. Hseish is crazy (in a good way). I saw a lot of post-surgery pics online and boy they all looked bad. Long and behold, I had absolutely NO bruises on my face after surgery&#8230; that&#8217;s how good he is.
> 2.    -   During my consultation, I was amused to see how excited he was to do this surgery. You know a doctor is good when there is lots of passion involved.
> 
> Mannerism of the clinic:  1.    -   The ladies at the clinics don&#8217;t speak much English except for the dentist assistant and Dr. Hsieh assistant. These 2 lovely ladies were absolutely sweet to me! I was all alone when I did this surgery but they cared for me like I was a friend and it was so touching as none of my family could be with me.   I didn&#8217;t have a cell phone so they even offered to let me bring the clinic&#8217;s ipad back to my hotel with me so I could communicate with them via email after my surgery.
> 2.     -  I had to wait maybe 30 mins to an hour to see Dr. Hsieh for our initial consultation. I think it&#8217;s b/c he takes time with each patient. He spent a lot of time with me as well.
> 3.     -  I had to take my blood prior to the surgery. I got a little scared when the nurse took my blood. When she pulled the needle out of my arm, she didn&#8217;t put a bandage on top right away so blood leaked on the table.. I&#8217;m terrified of blood but it wasn&#8217;t like she was my surgeon so I didn&#8217;t worry too much about it.
> 
> 
> Post surgery experience
> 1.     -  Surgery was a breeze, but post surgery was hard. Maybe b/c I was by myself in a hotel? I dunno, but it was not easy.
> 2.     -  It was one of the toughest 5 days of my life. It was hard to take liquids in. It was hard to breath. I had a lot of discomforts with eating so I simply didn&#8217;t eat. It hurt to pee b/c they use an urine catheter during surgery. SIGH* it was tough. But after the first week, it was easy J
> 3.     -  By 1.5 weeks, I could eat soft solids. By 2 weeks, I could eat bananas. By 3 weeks I was eating again. By 4 weeks, I was eating everything.
> 
> 
> Surgery Complications:
> 1.    -   My right side healed faster than my left, which made me look like my face and lips was crooked. I was extremely worried  but 2 months later and it has returned 90% back to normal and it will probably recover fully since I am still swollen on the left side.
> 2.    -   My lips were huge after surgery but that&#8217;s not what worried me. What worried me was after 1 week they began to shrink! I&#8217;m talking smaller than they were before. This made NO sense to me but I never addressed it to my surgeon. I thought, maybe it was just me. So I flew back home 3 weeks after my surgery and my parents and bf thought the same thing.. My lips were tiny! I have no explanation for this being 2 months post-surgery, they have returned to their normal size.. BIG phew*
> 3.    -   I really love my smile but after the surgery my smile changed to this ugly joker smile.  I was patient though as I know the swollenness in the face alters the smile. 1 month post op, my smile was not back and I was really depressed thinking it was permanently stuck like this. 2 months post op, my smile is back to normal!
> 4.    -   I had a sharp pain in my left ear after surgery every time I drank cold water or orange juice (probably a nerve issue). The nurses and doctor told me it would go away and it did eventually.
> 5.    -   I had many more worries while I was healing but all of these problems were temporary so if you&#8217;re planning to get 2 jaw, please be patient and try not to worry as much as me.
> 
> 
> Good luck to all the gals getting jaw surgery + vline. It&#8217;s not as scary as everyone makes it. It was the best decision of my life and I would do it again a million times.


Hello. I don't want to clutter-up the forum, as this is the only issue I am concerned about. I made a profile so that hopefully I could PM you, but I hope doing it here is okay?

Is everything still quite alright with your results? I can't find much of anything on Dr. Hsieh outside of this forum. I did e-mail him directly, but of course a patient would be the proper one to ask.

I hope you are doing very well, and I would love to hear back from you. Thanks so much.


----------



## babycakes1234

Hey are u planning to go Taiwan for the surgery. I'm thinking to go dr Hsieh too maybe we can go together^^ ill be going on my own as my family will not agree me to getting the procedure done!!


----------



## 83sunny67

Madea25 said:


> Hello Paxsky:]
> 
> I feel that if ur gums do not show, it is a good thing, but the doctor may need to mess with ur upper and lower teeth attached the jaw.  In other words, to achieve a smaller face, I'm guessing the doctor will need to push ur jaw with chin back substantially.  Since the lower teeth is obviously attached to ur lower jaw, it would move back a lot too along with the moving back of the chin and lower jaw, so the doctor will need to move those lower teeth as well as well as moving the upper jaw into a position that they would align cause if he didn't u would look like a piranha lol.  The moving of the teeth is called ASO (anterior segmental osteotomy)....which is very much commonly done with two-jaw or is part of that surgery.


 
Hey, I do know a good doctor for two jaw surgery. If you want to add him on your list and check him out, pm me!


----------



## gangnamgal

83sunny67 said:


> Hey, I do know a good doctor for two jaw surgery. If you want to add him on your list and check him out, pm me!


Hi, who is the doctor you recommend for 2 jaw surgery?


----------



## gangnamgal

cherrycreamsoda said:


> Hello. I don't want to clutter-up the forum, as this is the only issue I am concerned about. I made a profile so that hopefully I could PM you, but I hope doing it here is okay?
> 
> Is everything still quite alright with your results? I can't find much of anything on Dr. Hsieh outside of this forum. I did e-mail him directly, but of course a patient would be the proper one to ask.
> 
> I hope you are doing very well, and I would love to hear back from you. Thanks so much.


Hi Swoon_ca,
I also would like to hear from you how you are now.  I need 2 jaw surgery and also thinking of going to Taiwan.


----------



## Jadynn

Hi everyone,
I had two jaw surgery in Seoul two months ago and I stayed there for 7 weeks. It was to correct asymmetry and a slight long face, which the surgery corrected but I think I got OVER corrected.

I'm not sure if it's swelling, but my face is currently extremely undefined/not as contoured as compared to before surgery. My face also became much smaller after surgery but I find that the ratio is not balanced now (upper face too big and chin too small), though I did specifically ask for a NOT-small chin. My cheeks which show up when I smile (I think it's called apple cheeks) are no longer flattering now, they are too big for my smaller face and actually make me look fat or chubby.. My profile is awesome though, so that's one good thing.

I'm getting quite impatient with the swelling now, there should be some left but I'm not sure how big of a difference it'll make. I'm waiting for the half year mark before the review with my doctor, but in the meantime, the wait is excruciating. I find myself looking at my old pictures a lot nowadays, and the change is really difficult for me to accept.

It'll be great if anyone else who has gone through the same thing can share their experience with me, or simply just chat with me about recovery.


----------



## let me out

I had four jaw surgery (two jaw surgery + anterior segmental osteotomy + genioplasty) three weeks ago at EverM and Dr. Yoon and Dr. Seo told me that people usually see 60-70% of their swelling subside within a month.  The rest of the swelling can take as long as 6 months to go away and it varies from person to person, depending on how much bleeding there was during your surgery (they told me I had a lot because of the long teeth that they needed to extract for ASO).

I too am experiencing the same problem as you.  I had my long face shortened, asymmetry corrected, protruded mouth corrected, etc.  My cheeks, especially the lower, are puffy and it makes me look like I have a baby face.  I am hoping my features will slim down and become more defined over the next weeks, as I requested Dr. Yoon to make my face more angular.  I do have hope that the final result will be good because he showed me my post-surgery x-ray 2 weeks after surgery, and my bone structure looks fantastic now.  I just need to remain patient and let my tissues adjust to my new face.

I will be doing rhinoplasty and fat graft consultations next week once they remove the wafer and screws, but I won't be having those surgeries until February because I want to let the swelling subside more.  I will inquire about my puffy cheeks during the consultations.  Hopefully they will be able to tell me if it's swelling or permanent.  If it is permanent, then I might consider buccal fat removal.


----------



## let me out

Here's an abstract of an article I found about swelling post two jaw surgery:

Plast Reconstr Surg. 2007 Jun;119(7):2192-9.
*A three-dimensional evaluation of postoperative swelling following orthognathic surgery at 6 months.*
Kau CH, Cronin AJ, Richmond S.

*Abstract*
*BACKGROUND:*
Advances in three-dimensional technology have enabled applications for the clinical setting to be created and used in routine diagnosis, treatment planning, and patient education. The objectives of this prospective clinical trial were to determine the volume changes associated with facial swelling following orthognathic surgery.
*METHODS:
*Twelve subjects requiring orthognathic surgery were recruited for the study. Laser scanned images of the subjects were obtained under a reproducible, controlled environment with two laser-scanning devices assembled as a stereo pair. Three-dimensional laser scans were recorded over six time periods, as follows: T1, presurgical scan; T2, 1 day postoperatively; T3, 1 week postoperatively; T4, 1 month postoperatively; T5, 3 months postoperatively; and T6, 6 months postoperatively.
*RESULTS:*
The results showed a clinical difference in the mean shell deviations between bimaxillary and single-jaw orthognathic surgery. Furthermore, the results suggest that the mean volume of swelling was reduced by approximately 60 percent within the first month after surgery. Finally, the amounts of swelling following surgery were greater in bimaxillary cases. The recovery in the swelling was also faster in this group of patients.
*CONCLUSIONS:*
Three-dimensional imaging has opened up new avenues of patient care and treatment evaluation. The results have shown that the laser scanning device and the method described are a reliable and accurate measure of facial swelling following surgery.


----------



## Jadynn

Thanks for sharing!

I've also always wanted fat graft but with my chubby face experience now i much prefer my lean face.


----------



## Jadynn

Similarly I also bled quite a bit after surgery, through my nose especially and it made breathing so, so hard. Tough times, man.

Do you like the placement of your jaws/teeth after surgery? I had quite a bright smile before surgery but now I kinda look toothless.

Do you have kakao?


----------



## let me out

I used to have a very big and gummy smile before the surgery.  Now my smile is completely different.  For sure my teeth don't show as much and my smile is less wide but I think this is normal for people who have their upper jaw impacted and get ASO.  I have read that it takes months an months for your smile to come back as the swelling goes down and all the muscles/tissues adjust to the new underlying bone structure.  Plus, I still need to go through 6-12 months of braces.  Dr. Yoon is coordinating with my orthodontist in Shanghai to ensure the treatment is comprehensive and final outcome is optimal.  We'll see how things are when I get the braces off!


----------



## AC40

How long does the two jaw take?? Do people use straws after the two jaw surgery?


----------



## let me out

Two jaw surgery procedure last between 3-6 hours depending on the surgeon and the complexity of your case.  Mine was about 5 hours because I had other work done at the same time (ASO + genioplasty).  I will say that you don't really notice how long the surgery is because you are under general anesthesia.  Once the put the mask on you, you're asleep in less than a minute then the next thing you know you are waking up in the recovery room.


----------



## let me out

I found straws to be difficult to use because you don't have much feeling in your lips and mouth after the surgery, so it's difficult to suck.  It's easier to use a syringe or to just drink from a cup.  It may be undignified, but you'll be making a mess whenever you drink or eat for the first few weeks.  Just always have a wipe nearby.


----------



## milkychoco

@let me out

sounds like the procedures I wanna do except I only want v-line and/or genioplasty and rhinoplasty + forehead fat graft

thanks for sharing!!!

ps. would you mind sharing how much Everm quoted for individual procedures?


----------



## let me out

EverM does indeed have a laminated list of standard prices, however you can bargain down quite a bit (at least 20%).  Doing multiple procedures allows you to get a better price.

To give you an idea, the combined standard prices of all of my surgeries (two jaw + ASO on upper and lower jaw + genioplasty) was 33 million won.  I ended up paying just over half of that.


----------



## milkychoco

^thanks for the tip


----------



## 3yoshu

Is the health of your teeth/gums important to consider before doing two jaw? If you have some kind of dental problem like gingivitis/gum disease can it cause an infection during or after surgery?


----------



## newjks

Hi anybody know what's wrong with AT aesthetic clinic's website? is it in Korea language, it seems can't be enter, anyone know korean language care to figure it out?

www.atro.co.kr


----------



## K Couture

3yoshu said:


> Is the health of your teeth/gums important to consider before doing two jaw? If you have some kind of dental problem like gingivitis/gum disease can it cause an infection during or after surgery?


u need to go through a thorough check up before you are given the ok to undergo 2 jaw surgery, or at least the clinic should have such protocols in place. I mean even a horrible hospital like the yanhee in thailand has such measures


----------



## seekinghope

Hi, need some help here..to those who had narrowing genioplasty (T-ostectomy) especially those who also did it with long curved angle resection on the lower jaw..how long does it take for you to recover (as in talk normally and able to brush your teeth)? 

With that procedure does it somehow slim your lower face achieving the v-line look? Is sliding genio recommended if I only need to enhance the receded chin on the side profile and not the front?

Really appreciate your sharing and kind advice, thanks in advance!


----------



## LynnArchWired

Just wanted to let you know that Zip n Squeeze bags are now available at the DentaKit website. Often when you have jaw surgery you can't eat normally or even use a regular straw for a number of weeks. These bags solve that problem and allow you to get the nutrition you need. They'd been unavailable for a number of years, but fortunately now they are back!

DentaKit will also soon be carrying facial ice packs and squeeze bottles. If you're interested, visit the DentaKit website and search for Zip-n-Squeeze.


----------



## blasian

K Couture said:


> u need to go through a thorough check up before you are given the ok to undergo 2 jaw surgery, or at least the clinic should have such protocols in place. I mean even a horrible hospital like the yanhee in thailand has such measures



I still get emails from Yanhee hospital when I was considering going there. I am very glad I never followed through.


----------



## K Couture

blasian said:


> I still get emails from Yanhee hospital when I was considering going there. I am very glad I never followed through.


I'm glad you didn't too. I had 3 procedures there. Mandible reduction, rhinoplasty and chin augmentation. Was yearssss ago and my first time ever attempting plastic surgery. All 3 procedures required revisions....just saying 

These days the internet search system is so much more sophisticated. I typed in Yanhee and then several bad reviews links came up. I only wished back 10 years ago when I did my half-assed research I could at least find something negative on google but nothing showed up. I think people were also more conservative about surgery back then too


----------



## vivi_333

let me out said:


> EverM does indeed have a laminated list of standard prices, however you can bargain down quite a bit (at least 20%).  Doing multiple procedures allows you to get a better price.
> 
> To give you an idea, the combined standard prices of all of my surgeries (two jaw + ASO on upper and lower jaw + genioplasty) was 33 million won.  I ended up paying just over half of that.


 
Thanks for Sharing!


How long you had stay in Seoul for the surgery?


----------



## bigjaw

two jaw surgery is too much for me. i only want v LINE


----------



## cyberbeauty23

Hello!
I'm a female from the United States (New York City) and just stumbled  across this website a few days ago. I'm interested in doing two-jaw  surgery in korea because the pricing is more within my budget. US is  waaaaaaaaay too expensive and insurance won't cover. 

I have a long face (what I've been told by US plastic surgeons is called  "long face syndrome) and a slight overbite. I've never had braces. I  have read that Everm is a good place to go and I'm considering it. I'm  mainly interested for aesthetic purposes and not so much for teeth  alignment, but I consider that a bonus. I just want to have a smaller  face. ^.^

I have a few questions if anyone can answer them I would greatly appreciate it:

- Are there any negative reviews anywhere on Everm?

- Is the JW clinic (another place I'm considering) good at doing two-jaw surgery?

- Do I have to know korean to visit these two clinics?

- Are there any other clinics in Korea that specialize in jaw surgery that are good?


I've already eliminated ID, Jewelry, Grand, Wonjin, BK, Cinderella and  anything else I find that has negative reviews associated with it.

Thank you!!


----------



## bigjaw

hi Everm is a good place to get your two jaw surgery. im going next year 2016. im choosing Everm or JK for the VLine suregery. i hate my big face. i never wear sunglasses or hat since birth.. heres gahee email address
evermdental@naver.com. You can email her anytime. she is giving me more information about hotels,payment etc..


----------



## TaRaUnnie

cyberbeauty23 said:


> Hello!
> I'm a female from the United States (New York City) and just stumbled  across this website a few days ago. I'm interested in doing two-jaw  surgery in korea because the pricing is more within my budget. US is  waaaaaaaaay too expensive and insurance won't cover.
> 
> I have a long face (what I've been told by US plastic surgeons is called  "long face syndrome) and a slight overbite. I've never had braces. I  have read that Everm is a good place to go and I'm considering it. I'm  mainly interested for aesthetic purposes and not so much for teeth  alignment, but I consider that a bonus. I just want to have a smaller  face. ^.^
> 
> I have a few questions if anyone can answer them I would greatly appreciate it:
> 
> - Are there any negative reviews anywhere on Everm?
> 
> - Is the JW clinic (another place I'm considering) good at doing two-jaw surgery?
> 
> - Do I have to know korean to visit these two clinics?
> 
> - Are there any other clinics in Korea that specialize in jaw surgery that are good?
> 
> 
> I've already eliminated ID, Jewelry, Grand, Wonjin, BK, Cinderella and  anything else I find that has negative reviews associated with it.
> 
> Thank you!!



Hello cyberbeauty! 
Welcome to purseforum and nice to meet you~
I am going to do facial contouring in Korea as well, it is far more affordable as you said (: 
When are you thinking of going?
If you are doing it primarily for aesthetic purposes and less orthodontic have you considered long face surgery which is specifically for people with longer madibles like you? It is less intensive I believe than two jaw and two jaw is done foremost for alignment and orthodontic issues and is quite a complex surgery with a long recovery period. Just an idea..but you will have to ask and get and opinion from the doctors in your consultations. 
EverM does have the advantage of being a dental clinic so it appears reasonably reputable for orthodontic cases..however from what I have read and seen they are more popular for these sort of related surgeries and their aesthetic surgeries are secondary. From what I have seen, researched and read, it is not a hugely popular with native Koreans/locals for facial contouring which I always believe is a good indication as locals usually have local knoweledge. I think they are reputable but I don't know anything about them personally as some forummers on here do so I would ask them about it. I don't believe or have seen any negative reviews about them either.
JW clinic is quite popular with both locals and foreigners for facial contouring procedures and natural looking teardrop breast augmentations. I have seen a lot of before and afters from locals of JW and they are quite impressive! I don't know much about their two jaw procedures but they are good for other facial surgeries I believe. 
Another clinic, the first clinic I read about this 'long face surgery'.. is another clinic popular with locals for facial procedures, Item Clinic. 
http://www.itemcliniceng.com/face/item-face10.html &#8592; this is there page for long face surgery you can have a look at as a reference to see if it would be something you would like.
You don't need to know Korean or have a translator (avoid this aspect if you can!) in most of these bigger clinics as most have in house translators or the doctors speak English.
That's wise to avoid those clinics because they are the 'factories' of the clinics and even though some people may get good results from them, this is pretty hit and miss.
I am sorry I am not that knoweledgable or have much information on two jaw surgery but I hope I helped a little bit~
Good luck~&#9829;&#9825;


----------



## cyberbeauty23

bigjaw said:


> hi Everm is a good place to get your two jaw surgery. im going next year 2016. im choosing Everm or JK for the VLine suregery. i hate my big face. i never wear sunglasses or hat since birth.. heres gahee email address
> evermdental@naver.com. You can email her anytime. she is giving me more information about hotels,payment etc..



Lol I've been hiding my face with hats and sunglasses for a few years because I just hate the length of my face. I had regular dentist appointments as a kid but noone ever told me my jaw was growing in weird. Thank you for the info, I will be contacting them very soon.


----------



## cyberbeauty23

Hey TaRaUnnie, it's nice to meet you too. I'm not sure as to when I'll be going, but it definitely will be next year. I am looking into clinics that can give me a dramatic result but I also am trying to be careful, because I don't want to go somewhere not trained in jaw surgery. It's very serious and a one time thing...if too much jaw is removed you can't get that back. I've heard some good things about Item clinic, but mainly for eyes and nose. I haven't heard anyone post good review or result for jaw on this forum but when I looked on their website (from the link you posted; thank you) it seemed like they have a clear understanding of jaws. I found that on the lower part of that page, I fall into the category "If the central portion of the face is elongated". It suggests bimaxillary surgery which falls into the two-jaw surgery category. The only thing that I'm wary about is the fact they don't have before and afters of the two jaw surgery on their website, but yet have before/afters of other types of jaw surgery such as V-line. I don't doubt that they are a good clinic, it's just that I'm being extremely cautious about my face because there are no do-overs once I have a jaw operation. I wish there was more information out there about them on jaws...so I'll be searching out for that (I will be on this forum from now until after I get jaw surgery). I found out about JW clinic through youtube, haven't seen any negative reviews on them (yet) and a male forummer here posted a before/after pic of his V-line sugery which looks like it turned out great. Still not sure if they do good in more intense jaw surgery, though. This is something I will have to look more into. But if I must, I will stick to Everm because so far I feel very comfortable knowing dr. Yoon is qualified to do intense procedures if needed, and I have not seen any complaints. 
Thanks again and yes it did help!


----------



## newjks

for 2 jaw surgery there are SSRO and IVRO anyone done care to share your experience?


----------



## mickely

newjks said:


> for 2 jaw surgery there are SSRO and IVRO anyone done care to share your experience?



For IVRO,  ur jaw with be fixed with metal wires  for 2 weeks meaning strictly liquid diet only and no talking, after that u ll need to tie rubber band between ur jaw for another  2 weeks during which u can eat soft food. 

Ssro, ur jaw will  not be fixed but u ll need to tie rubber band between ur Jaws for 2 weeks after surgery,  breathing,  eating, talking are all easier straight after surgery.  Recovery is faster too but there a risk of nerve injury which could usually be prevented if it was done by a good surgeon. 

If I were to choose again I would have gone with Ssro,  being tied for 2 weeks and then  rubber band for another 2 is just tough.  Some surgeons recommend  IVRO because  it is easier  for them,  tougher on  u though, nevertheless it's ur pick,  no difference results wise.


----------



## mickely

For those who had 2 jaw or zygoma  reduction, did any of you notice more prominent jowls? 

My lower cheeks area ( around my nose but above my lips)  are more prominent making me look as if I have jowls,  I really hope it's the swelling but Iccouldn't  tell atm.  I m about 6 weeks post op,  currently at about 30-40% swelling depending on time of day..


----------



## Carnation

I have a couple of questions about two-jaw surgery that I could not find in this thread:
-What is the average cost of two-jaw surgery?
-Can you get two-jaw and v-line at the same time
-Do you have to where braces afterword?
-What clinics specialize in this procedure? 
Thank you in advance!


----------



## littlecheetah

hey, Don't worry. Didn't know you're only 6 weeks post op.
You need to wait several months for the swelling really to subside.
I was having this too the first months.






mickely said:


> For those who had 2 jaw or zygoma  reduction, did any of you notice more prominent jowls?
> 
> My lower cheeks area ( around my nose but above my lips)  are more prominent making me look as if I have jowls,  I really hope it's the swelling but Iccouldn't  tell atm.  I m about 6 weeks post op,  currently at about 30-40% swelling depending on time of day..


----------



## rilos

Since this thread says it also includes complex bone surgeries, I hope it's ok if I post here!

Back in 2013 I got a quote through email with JK with my photos regarding a quote for reducing the overall size of my face. At the time I wasn't keen on the terms for each procedure. My main issue is my cheekbones (zygoma) but they also quoted me v-line together with the zygoma. The quote for both together is 12k USD back in 2013.

I was wondering if the quote amount for v-line+zygoma here is high or low or decent? I'm not actually too interested in V-line because I don't like pointy small chin personally for my face. I'm feeling a bit too guilty to keep emailing them asking for zygoma quote only since it's been 2 years and I'm not actually planning to go there anytime soon (need to save up grrr)


----------



## mbn216

Carnation said:


> I have a couple of questions about two-jaw surgery that I could not find in this thread:
> -What is the average cost of two-jaw surgery?
> -Can you get two-jaw and v-line at the same time
> -Do you have to where braces afterword?
> -What clinics specialize in this procedure?
> Thank you in advance!


the clinics that I had visited while i was in korea trying to do 2 jaw was view , DA. I really like view clinic but I was too afraid to commit at that time. About braces they need to see your bite inorder to determine that ^^


----------



## Blobvy

Does anyone have more research on 2 jaw surgery? I honestly have no clue how to research clinics in Korean :/ 
I want to have surgery with a maxillofacial specialist. But this is such a major procedure that I want to do tons of research. But it's so hard when you don't know the Korean language... 

I was considering AT clinic, atro.co.kr, but it seems like he left to China or something? At least when I tried to translate his site from Korean to English. 
Some people here went to The Face Dental. While they seemed to have a somewhat positive experience I would never do a surgery just because of one or two forumers who said that they have had surgery there... I need more research 
Oh my English is quite bad, sorry. Does anyone know what to do in a situation like this? :/


----------



## mblem

newjks said:


> Hi anybody know what's wrong with AT aesthetic clinic's website? is it in Korea language, it seems can't be enter, anyone know korean language care to figure it out?
> 
> www.atro.co.kr


Late reply but I took a look and the doctor has moved to Seouleaguer hospital in Shanghai. I looked it up and here is his linkedin: 

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/heung-sik-park/74/25/452


----------



## Celly Wang2

Yoshieee said:


> If someone was considering two-jaw, what other clinics can they look into? If EverM isn't good for it, is there a clinic that is?


 
EVERM is my top list , It is good for having two jaw


----------



## Celly Wang2

I did Two surgery in EVERM, I am happy with that


----------



## Emma26

Celly Wang2 said:


> I did Two surgery in EVERM, I am happy with that


Hello! i happy to hear that! could u PM me ur pics?


----------



## cyberbeauty23

Celly Wang2 said:


> I did Two surgery in EVERM, I am happy with that


Could you share your pics through message? So far some people have had two-jaw but nobody has shared before and afters. :/


----------



## jojjji

This is for Dr. Hsieh in Taiwan: 

location - Location was easily accessible from the Taipei Main station M8 exit. 

Wait Time- I scheduled an appointment at 6PM, and was seen at 6:45PM. 

Office - The office is alright. Theres water and some coffee on the left side once you enter through the doors. What struck me as unprofessional was the amount of half empty coffee mugs on the front desk. There were about 4 front desk clerks and it was a little chaotic. 

Dr. - Dr. Hsieh was alright but he seemed quite eccentric. He speaks the English language well but he purposely isolates himself from the financial, scheduling, and management side of surgery. 
This is where the issue came up for me. During my consultation, he recommended orthognathic surgery and described the procedure. When I asked about the results of such a surgery, he said that You know, all people that come here ask me this question. and he seemed kind of off-put by it. Of course people ask this question, they wouldnt be looking into facial surgery otherwise! Basically, he told me the only way to know would be to do an examination (CT Scan) and even then it would be mostly a demonstration. He didnt once let me know any of the complications or the dangers of surgery and seemed 

So I asked him if I was able to fit a surgery into my short schedule. I needed to leave within a week and a half. He said I would be able to, so I went forward with the examination, spending $6300 NTD (or ~$200). Examination consisted of a CT Scan, before picture, and a mold of my upper and lower teeth. 

What should have immediately struck me as strange was how disorganized everyone was. The nurse I was following around led me from the dental clinic area to the photographic area and back twice. Not sure why. Dr. Hsieh also rubbed me the wrong way when he started talking about how much more money he'd make in the US, if he chose to practice there instead... during the consultation. $$

Once I had my scan, I went to the front desk to talk to the girl there about the follow up consultation. This is where the communication went to hell. She tried to fit me on the day before my flight. I let her know I was leaving the next day and that I wanted it earlier. She fit me in a few days before and that was that.

Then I sent them an email regarding a few questions (when will I be able to have my procedure done, will it make it in time, etc.) and it turned out I cant even have the procedure done. There wasnt enough time. I wasted $6300 NTD! And despite telling them I was leaving abroad on X date, none of them had the bright idea of letting me know that I couldnt have the procedure done in time. Dr. Hsieh even told me himself it was okay and that I had time. Apparently not. 

Customer Service/Communication -  So be wary of the communication issues. I was able to speak some Mandarin and the issue still popped up. The doctor can speak English, but the rest of his office has limited grasp of it. So be wary of anything they say. 

Professionalism - When taking a photo during the exam, i noticed that there was unlocked cabinets full of patient information. I could have easily reached through and looked at previous patients information if I was so inclined. 0/10 for HIPAA violations.

In conclusion, I cant speak much for the surgical abilities of Dr. Hsieh, but I wanted to share my own experience with Charm Aesthetic Surgery Center.  After all this, I would really not recommend this location unless you speak Mandarin and are, for some reason, in Taiwan for a month. The cost is about 10K USD. 

Good luck.


----------



## allydolly

I wanna get double jaw so badly... time to start saving up :/


----------



## herecticx

Lol u think u can cut your jaws in half n be okay to leave in a week lmao u guys must be delusional. Save the dr some dignity do your own research


----------



## Zapp332

I hope someone who did 2 jaw or any face contouring surgery can share their experience on skin sagging post surgery. I am 35yrs old this year & considering for jaw surgery. Not sure if it worth the price of getting skin sagging for the rest of my life post surgery... Seems like I am too old for any bone surgery at this age


----------



## Celly Wang2

Hi !zizen 
I already did two jaw at Everm 
I will share my thread soon


----------



## doublejaw

I'm looking to have it done in a few months, maybe 2. I am just worried about the skin sagging but my jaw is really painful...if I'm young (18) do you guys think this will be an issue for me? Is it mostly for older women? I really need to align my jaw but I am scared of ruining my face


----------



## nero19

doublejaw said:


> I'm looking to have it done in a few months, maybe 2. I am just worried about the skin sagging but my jaw is really painful...if I'm young (18) do you guys think this will be an issue for me? Is it mostly for older women? I really need to align my jaw but I am scared of ruining my face


hey, I did not have double jaw surgery but lower jaw, with assymetrical fix.
I did it in my homecountry (Netherlands) and my doctor said i had to wait till i was 21 because your jaw keeps growing till that age, and if you had surgery it could change a bit afterwards if i did it too early.
I even had like a special ''growth photo''. I pushed him and said i couldnt wait so i did it at 20.5. I dont know if this is the same for everyone but thought i let you know. And you have pain in your jaw? is it around your jawmuscles? maybe get botox, i do it every 4 months cause of the surgery they take so much bone the muscle now have to overcompensate and get really sore and big but with the botox i have no problems and looks great.


----------



## Mdott

paxsky said:


> Researching prices for Korean locals for PS, I came across a price list for 2- Jaw surgery among some clinics and thought it may be of help to someone during negotiations. I can't read all of it, but from top to bottom:
> 
> (in korean won )
> face dental clinic- 9,500,000
> everm- 10,000,000- 12,000,000
> wonjin- 10,000,000- 15,000,000
> banobagi- 12,000,000- 15,000,000
> regen- 13,000,000
> faceline- 13,000,000- 15,000.000
> grand- 14,000.000
> ID- 15,000,000
> this doesn't dental care- braces, etc.,  which this listed in the next column.
> 
> It's interesting that the ones with the worst reputation, grand and id, are the ones charging the most.





Ohh my god thank you so so much  for this list it really gives me a better idea of how to approach  these clinic I'm jumping for joy Im about to copy and paste this try to translate  it mostly  to English


----------



## ryalin1

I feel it's better to use the money on other facial procedures to balance out your face than get two-jaw which is pretty serious....didn't some girl commit suicide due to complications afterwards?


----------



## Mdott

ryalin1 said:


> I feel it's better to use the money on other facial procedures to balance out your face than get two-jaw which is pretty serious....didn't some girl commit suicide due to complications afterwards?




Do you know the link to the story or which clinic  she had went to
Thanks in advance


----------



## ryalin1

Mdott said:


> Do you know the link to the story or which clinic  she had went to
> Thanks in advance


 
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...ad-bone-cutting-jaw-surgery-article-1.1356287


It doesn't say which clinic but I remember reading elsewhere it was Wonjin.


----------



## scandinavia

I am also thinking about visiting Korea for a beauty trip next summer. 
I think that DA is one of the best place for the double jaw. My friend got eyelid and facial contouring at DA and she has satisfied at all.


----------



## Celly Wang2

undergo two jaw surgery in Grand?omg
I did two jaw in Dental clinic , if you want to do two jaw should go dental clinic


----------



## jellyv

Celly Wang2 said:


> I did two jaw in Dental clinic , if you want to do two jaw should go dental clinic




You did it twice? You said you did it before too, at a different clinic.


----------



## tyalls

Great post! I've done 2jaw before. I'll be going to Korea soon for vline and cheek reduction.


----------



## JessicaCorbyn

paxsky said:


> Researching prices for Korean locals for PS, I came across a price list for 2- Jaw surgery among some clinics and thought it may be of help to someone during negotiations. I can't read all of it, but from top to bottom:
> 
> (in korean won )
> face dental clinic- 9,500,000
> everm- 10,000,000- 12,000,000
> wonjin- 10,000,000- 15,000,000
> banobagi- 12,000,000- 15,000,000
> regen- 13,000,000
> faceline- 13,000,000- 15,000.000
> grand- 14,000.000
> ID- 15,000,000
> this doesn't dental care- braces, etc.,  which this listed in the next column.
> 
> It's interesting that the ones with the worst reputation, grand and id, are the ones charging the most.



I thought most expensive = better clinic.. Maybe not -_-

What is the difference between two jaw and square jaw surgery? I am not Korean and don't understand the terms sorry


----------



## Butterfly623

The difference between 2 jaw and mandible contouring surgeries are: 2 jaw is when they cut across your nasal cavity AND completely sever your lower jaw in order to freely move them (forward or back, depending on whether you have an over or under bite) to give you a more proportioned profile; the mandible contouring (aka Vline or square jaw contouring) is for reducing the length and width; shaping the jaw. 

BEWARE their many great ads and marketing campaigns that lure you into having these procedures done, thinking you will end up just as cute and happy as the girls in the ads. In the end, you may end up with a cute profile and small face AND an onslaught of sagging skin that no longer have bone structure for support. I know. I am 2 years post-op from ID Hospital. I have been living the nightmare. You can see my review in realself under my same name, if you're interested.


----------



## Carnation

.


----------



## rejenesys

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone here has done ASO (Anterior Segmental Osteotomy) surgery. How is it different from two-jaw surgery? 

I'm concerned about my maxillary protrusion. I've had braces in the past (no extractions) so I don't have any major bite issues... maybe still a slightly small overbite.


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## wyue0554

jojjji said:


> This is for Dr. Hsieh in Taiwan:
> 
> location - Location was easily accessible from the Taipei Main station M8 exit.
> 
> Wait Time- I scheduled an appointment at 6PM, and was seen at 6:45PM.
> 
> Office - The office is alright. Theres water and some coffee on the left side once you enter through the doors. What struck me as unprofessional was the amount of half empty coffee mugs on the front desk. There were about 4 front desk clerks and it was a little chaotic.
> 
> Dr. - Dr. Hsieh was alright but he seemed quite eccentric. He speaks the English language well but he purposely isolates himself from the financial, scheduling, and management side of surgery.
> This is where the issue came up for me. During my consultation, he recommended orthognathic surgery and described the procedure. When I asked about the results of such a surgery, he said that You know, all people that come here ask me this question. and he seemed kind of off-put by it. Of course people ask this question, they wouldnt be looking into facial surgery otherwise! Basically, he told me the only way to know would be to do an examination (CT Scan) and even then it would be mostly a demonstration. He didnt once let me know any of the complications or the dangers of surgery and seemed
> 
> So I asked him if I was able to fit a surgery into my short schedule. I needed to leave within a week and a half. He said I would be able to, so I went forward with the examination, spending $6300 NTD (or ~$200). Examination consisted of a CT Scan, before picture, and a mold of my upper and lower teeth.
> 
> What should have immediately struck me as strange was how disorganized everyone was. The nurse I was following around led me from the dental clinic area to the photographic area and back twice. Not sure why. Dr. Hsieh also rubbed me the wrong way when he started talking about how much more money he'd make in the US, if he chose to practice there instead... during the consultation. $$
> 
> Once I had my scan, I went to the front desk to talk to the girl there about the follow up consultation. This is where the communication went to hell. She tried to fit me on the day before my flight. I let her know I was leaving the next day and that I wanted it earlier. She fit me in a few days before and that was that.
> 
> Then I sent them an email regarding a few questions (when will I be able to have my procedure done, will it make it in time, etc.) and it turned out I cant even have the procedure done. There wasnt enough time. I wasted $6300 NTD! And despite telling them I was leaving abroad on X date, none of them had the bright idea of letting me know that I couldnt have the procedure done in time. Dr. Hsieh even told me himself it was okay and that I had time. Apparently not.
> 
> Customer Service/Communication -  So be wary of the communication issues. I was able to speak some Mandarin and the issue still popped up. The doctor can speak English, but the rest of his office has limited grasp of it. So be wary of anything they say.
> 
> Professionalism - When taking a photo during the exam, i noticed that there was unlocked cabinets full of patient information. I could have easily reached through and looked at previous patients information if I was so inclined. 0/10 for HIPAA violations.
> 
> In conclusion, I cant speak much for the surgical abilities of Dr. Hsieh, but I wanted to share my own experience with Charm Aesthetic Surgery Center.  After all this, I would really not recommend this location unless you speak Mandarin and are, for some reason, in Taiwan for a month. The cost is about 10K USD.
> 
> Good luck.


i definitely would not recommend this clinic.. i know someone who experienced failed surgery conducted by Dr. Hsieh and shared his experience on a taiwan forum, turns out that Dr. Hsieh then sued him for defamation. His surgery is quite a failed one objectively


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## tiffany7294

Hi everyone, I'm planning to do double jaw surgery early next year and still considering between Everm and The Face dental. I'm a bit worry as all the orthodontists that I met told me that I must do my sugery in the middle of orthodontics treatment( braces-sugery-braces). They told me that it wont work and i'm taking very high risk if I'm doing surgery either before or after wearing braces. While most of Korean surgeon told me that it's totally fine for doing surgery first.Getting so confused.I'm wondering if there is anyone in this topic has done jaw sugery and how are you going with orthodontics treatment afterward. Thank u


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## Butterfly623

wyue0554 said:


> i definitely would not recommend this clinic.. i know someone who experienced failed surgery conducted by Dr. Hsieh and shared his experience on a taiwan forum, turns out that Dr. Hsieh then sued him for defamation. His surgery is quite a failed one objectively


The same thing happened to me at ID Hospital.


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## Butterfly623

tiffany7294 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm planning to do double jaw surgery early next year and still considering between Everm and The Face dental. I'm a bit worry as all the orthodontists that I met told me that I must do my sugery in the middle of orthodontics treatment( braces-sugery-braces). They told me that it wont work and i'm taking very high risk if I'm doing surgery either before or after wearing braces. While most of Korean surgeon told me that it's totally fine for doing surgery first.Getting so confused.I'm wondering if there is anyone in this topic has done jaw sugery and how are you going with orthodontics treatment afterward. Thank u


Hi. I have had double jaw surgery them got braces afterwards. it is true. You should get surgery in the middle of treatment. You run into a lot of complications if you don't.


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## FreshLook

Hello Purseblog people! I' m considering double jaw surgery too and right now i' m doing my research very carefully. Lately, i spotted a lot of great reviews and good words for DARPS. Is there someone who did bone surgery in DA PS and how was his/her experience like? Also, which surgeon did you choose?

I went to  DA website and since i'm a guy i searched for the male patients' results. It's really positive and informative that there are also some videos with the after surgery patients because the pictures can be easily photoshopped.

The website advertises a lot this guy as a ''good result'' but i don't know guys... What do you think about it's jaw surgery or his nosejod because i only see a non defined Jaw line with a not so pleasant shape and a quite wide nose bridge. Are these considered as good results? What is your opinion?


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## murakamis

FreshLook said:


> Hello Purseblog people! I' m considering double jaw surgery too and right now i' m doing my research very carefully. Lately, i spotted a lot of great reviews and good words for DARPS. Is there someone who did bone surgery in DA PS and how was his/her experience like? Also, which surgeon did you choose?
> 
> I went to  DA website and since i'm a guy i searched for the male patients' results. It's really positive and informative that there are also some videos with the after surgery patients because the pictures can be easily photoshopped.
> 
> The website advertises a lot this guy as a ''good result'' but i don't know guys... What do you think about it's jaw surgery or his nosejod because i only see a non defined Jaw line with a not so pleasant shape and a quite wide nose bridge. Are these considered as good results? What is your opinion?



I mean overall the guy looks good to me. But if the company just constantly pushes him out to promote then I'd do a little more research before deciding on this clinic.

I think the reason why his jaw looks unpleasant to you is because the skin is sagging perhaps?

Please take my words with a whole lot of salt because I've only recently started researching and am in no place to give advice.


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## chaunguy

FreshLook said:


> Hello Purseblog people! I' m considering double jaw surgery too and right now i' m doing my research very carefully. Lately, i spotted a lot of great reviews and good words for DARPS. Is there someone who did bone surgery in DA PS and how was his/her experience like? Also, which surgeon did you choose?
> 
> I went to  DA website and since i'm a guy i searched for the male patients' results. It's really positive and informative that there are also some videos with the after surgery patients because the pictures can be easily photoshopped.
> 
> The website advertises a lot this guy as a ''good result'' but i don't know guys... What do you think about it's jaw surgery or his nosejod because i only see a non defined Jaw line with a not so pleasant shape and a quite wide nose bridge. Are these considered as good results? What is your opinion?




imo he looks younger and cute but I get that we all have different tastes.


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## Mumin86

I just had a double jaw surgery at DA around a week ago, wondering if anyone having the surgery at this period?


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## missplacings

Hello everyone! I've been researching facial contouring surgeries because I have a long face shape with a specifically long midface area (with a gummy smile) as well as a long lower jaw/chin. Would two jaw surgery be the only way to correct this issue? I have yet to find an alternative that might be less invasive.


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## jarhead64

FreshLook said:


> Hello Purseblog people! I' m considering double jaw surgery too and right now i' m doing my research very carefully. Lately, i spotted a lot of great reviews and good words for DARPS. Is there someone who did bone surgery in DA PS and how was his/her experience like? Also, which surgeon did you choose?
> 
> I went to  DA website and since i'm a guy i searched for the male patients' results. It's really positive and informative that there are also some videos with the after surgery patients because the pictures can be easily photoshopped.
> 
> The website advertises a lot this guy as a ''good result'' but i don't know guys... What do you think about it's jaw surgery or his nosejod because i only see a non defined Jaw line with a not so pleasant shape and a quite wide nose bridge. Are these considered as good results? What is your opinion?




I kind of agree with you imo. Not too impressive... Some girl was bashing on them on another forum I read ><

I'm considering facial bone surgery and revision nose surgery. I'm from Sydney and will be in Korea sometime around January. I have been following this thread for a while but finally made an account today heheh YAY ME !!  

My cousin/relative who is in Korea recommended me a few places. I'm trying to aim for more local areas. Anyone know any good local areas? I'm still researching... but I've narrowed it down

If anyone is gonna be in the area during that time PLEASE message me. I dont think I can go throuhg with it alone... >< I'm only 22


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## happy nonsense

Does anyone know of clinics in Korea that specialize in double jaw surgery only? I'm looking to get double jaw surgery and currently searching for maxillofacial surgeons specifically. So far the clinics on my list are TFD, EverM and Zeah Dental.


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## jollyolly1

jarhead64 said:


> I kind of agree with you imo. Not too impressive... Some girl was bashing on them on another forum I read ><
> 
> I'm considering facial bone surgery and revision nose surgery. I'm from Sydney and will be in Korea sometime around January. I have been following this thread for a while but finally made an account today heheh YAY ME !!
> 
> My cousin/relative who is in Korea recommended me a few places. I'm trying to aim for more local areas. Anyone know any good local areas? I'm still researching... but I've narrowed it down
> 
> If anyone is gonna be in the area during that time PLEASE message me. I dont think I can go throuhg with it alone... >< I'm only 22



where are you considering? I will be there end of this month until Feb


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## jarhead64

jollyolly1 said:


> where are you considering? I will be there end of this month until Feb


sorry for the late reply. I'm considering GNG Hospital and Grand. Grand is kind of mixed feelings cause their reviews are always sooo inconsistent, but I figured I'd check them out anyway. I'm leaning more towards GNG tho since my friend just got her nose there like a week ago and the results are straight up on point. but we shall see


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## heimcha.j

jarhead64 said:


> sorry for the late reply. I'm considering GNG Hospital and Grand. Grand is kind of mixed feelings cause their reviews are always sooo inconsistent, but I figured I'd check them out anyway. I'm leaning more towards GNG tho since my friend just got her nose there like a week ago and the results are straight up on point. but we shall see



there was another person on one of these forums mentioning that her balckfriend did surgery at GNG for orthognathic surgery to correct her mouth protrustion, if that helps.


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## happy nonsense

Does anyone have any info about EU Dental? Apparently it is a clinic for maxillofacial surgery but I can't find any reviews on it


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## p.joann14

happy nonsense said:


> Does anyone have any info about EU Dental? Apparently it is a clinic for maxillofacial surgery but I can't find any reviews on it


They're new. just opened up and doing mass marketing. not sure if they're good, just completely new


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## p.joann14

heimcha.j said:


> there was another person on one of these forums mentioning that her balckfriend did surgery at GNG for orthognathic surgery to correct her mouth protrustion, if that helps.


i think i read that too on one of the pages. how did it turn out??


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## cloudyn

Hi Everyone. Just wanted to post my experience with Dr. Hsieh in Taiwan. The clinic does know I am posting this and they gave me a good faith discount. However that was almost 1 year ago, So this is my honest experience. 9 days out of 10 I love my results. 1 day out of 10 I wish he had been more aggressive with osteotomy, but he has very low rates of nerve damage and blood loss and I think that is why. (also I didn't ask him to do severe osteotomy, for professional reasons my appearance could not change too much)
I did more reading online and found a few mentions of Dr. Hsieh. I heard nothing but positive things about the clinic. When I contacted him by email, I could sense his professionalism, talent, and thoroughness. The clinic coordinator Juliana, Dr. Hsieh and myself were in contact for almost 2 years by email, checking in about the cost, the recovery time (which was an issue for me as I had only 1 break in my schooling), and the safety and planning. He was able to provide me with a rough plan for my surgery after having seen my photos. I was able to have some time to save money. Looking back, I am shocked and grateful that they continued to correspond with me about the surgery even when at times it did not seem like I would ever come. They took the time to consult with me, just out of professionalism and kindness.

Finally the time for my trip arrived. I was doing this alone- no one would be going with me to take care of me. We coordinated the appointment day ahead of time, I spent the money I had saved on a bare bones airline ticket and hostel accommodations (Airbnb ftw!), and off I went on my big trip. Because I also wanted an implant placed, my time in Taiwan would be 1 month (need time to design and print it). If well coordinated, I have heard that patients have stayed much shorter. However, because of my careful personality I wanted to have time to recover before boarding a plane alone (tiring journey).
 I had a few days before my appointment with Dr. Hsieh and I got my bearings of the neighborhood. I stayed very close to the clinic for strategic reasons, and the area is so nice. On one side was the bustling, commercial MRT Main Station Taipei, on the other a beautiful scenic memorial park and hundreds of food stalls.  I ate my fill of delicious (solid) food. I recommend egg pancake and fried chicken, and nothing beats the convenience stores in Taiwan.

On the day of my appointment I walked into the very modern and clean clinic called “Charm Clinic” where Dr. Hsieh owns and operates. The first thing he did was take photos of my face from various angles. He prefers to do this himself for consistency (this is about the time that I began to get an idea of how meticulous a doctor I am dealing with). He has a great personality and laughs, listens, etc. Unlike many other surgeons, from the start he was incredibly personable, great listener and I was frankly very impressed with him as a doctor overall. In the consultation room Dr. Hsieh pulled up the pictures he had just taken on an enormous monitor. First we looked at the pictures and he asked me what I would like changed. Then he very tactfully pointed out some things that he saw as opportunities to improve. Some, such as my large chin, were obvious to me. But he took it a step further and told me that my lips could have much more support and I could have something called “incisor show”. I had some asymmetry which he also discussed fixing. Note this was all in the same surgery- he was not trying to shill extra procedures, it was all stuff we had discussed via email. Afterward Juli and I met about the pricing and payment, and logistics- again all very professional. Even though everyone had already gone to a considerable amount of trouble, I still felt I was given room to decide what to do.

On the day of surgery II met the anesthesiologist and nurse who would take care of me post op. They explained what I would feel like when I woke up, that I would have a foley and tubes in my mouth.  They took my vitals and EKG, made some small talk, started an IV, and the rest was all a dream.

When I woke up, I had tubes coming out of my mouth and I was lying down. (In some places they put ice packs and humidified air on you, but I think that would have been distracting). I don’t remember the name of my nurse but she was so sweet. I could not speak so we typed back and forth, and I had a buzzer which I used very liberally to call on her. I had some discomfort with my breathing since my nose got plugged up, but no localized pain in my jaw at all. Pain meds were given on the dot and I slept pretty well. I was able to syringe myself some juice and water after she showed me how. I can’t pretend I didn’t have regrets during the first night, though. It’s hard to think clearly when you are uncomfortable! My nurse must have been working for a full 12 hours, but before she finished her shift they moved me to a nicer room with a big TV and comfortable bed. At this point I was more independent and had the foley out, but I still had a little buzzer in case I needed anything.

Juli and Dr.Hsieh both checked in on me at the 24 hour mark, and another junior doctor checked on me earlier than that. To be honest I could have safely left but I was so nervous and scared that my swelling would impede my breathing. In retrospect that was a ridiculous fear but they were so nice about it and told me to stay rather than be alone in a hostel. In that time I was able to walk around the clinic a bit, to drink a lot of water and put on some ice packs.

When it did come time for me to leave, they wrote my address down for for me in Chinese characters to hand to the cab driver, walked me down to the street and physically put me in a taxi, haha. I was to come for follow up in 1 week.

The clinic sent me home with a big packet of stuff including hot/cold packs (incredibly convenient), mouthwash, q tips that were basically my toothbrush for the week. I messaged Juli on LINE a lot during this week, as we had already been in touch. She told me where to find protein shakes, ox broth, and answered other questions I had about my swelling and recovery. Sometimes she just sent me nice emojis and encouragement, which I really appreciated. I did swell a bit more and my first night at home was not easy, as I had to sleep sitting up. The first week was tough because there are a lot of meds to take on a schedule and while some are for pain, others are antibiotics so you don’t want to skip them!

At my follow up, they checked my bite, let me brush my teeth normally, and took out my rubber bands and screws. I am seriously SUCH a wimp about pain and they made it comfortable for me. I am telling you, this is a miracle and they pulled it off. They also answered all my questions thoroughly.

I think my swelling was worse than most peoples, because I didn’t start to get an idea of what I would look like until the 2 week mark. My flight home was at the 2 week mark and I remember looking at myself in the Japan airport admiring the results of the surgery. The incisor show is stunning and he didn’t cut down my mandible so much that I look like a potato face. My face was naturally a little angular and he gave me the perfect result. Sometimes I catch myself not even surprised at my reflection. My jaw never seemed right to me and he gave me the face I was *supposed* to be born with.

Something that I don’t feel my review conveys is the warmth shown by everyone I dealt with. As a single person going overseas for surgery, I was very scared and cautious. They managed to help me through everything and I felt so safe and cared for. I didn’t want to have my surgery at a ‘factory’ and while Dr. Hsieh certainly sees and operates on a ton of patients, I never felt like a number. This contrasts with stories I hear about jaw surgery in other Asian countries and quite frankly, what I have seen firsthand in some US doctors offices.


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## versible

Just curious, after you undergo 2jaw will you haveto wear compression garment in your head for a lil while?


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## ianazhary

wyue0554 said:


> i definitely would not recommend this clinic.. i know someone who experienced failed surgery conducted by Dr. Hsieh and shared his experience on a taiwan forum, turns out that Dr. Hsieh then sued him for defamation. His surgery is quite a failed one objectively


Hey, thanks for your insight. May I know more details about the failure your friend had? Just the story of the failure procedure. Is it measured by functionality or aesthetically? cheers.


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