# Real Versus High End Fake VCA



## etoupebirkin

I recently had a chance to look at a real VCA Alhambra 5-motif bracelet and a high end fake. As a casual observer, the fake looked real. When someone is wearing a fake, you would think it's real. These fakes are made of 18K, stones, and are well-made. They cost 25% to 35% of VCA costs, e.g., a $12K VCA piece, costs $3-$4K replica. The people I know who have bought these items own real VCA, spend $1000s on Chanel, own multiple multi-million dollar homes, etc.

However, when I laid both bracelets side by side and examined closely, there were definite nuances that "tell" real versus fake. I did not take pictures because I did not want to offend the owner. I will NOT go into the nuances in the open forum. But my advice for persons buying in the reseller market is to: 

Compare a real Alhambra against the purchase. Lay them side by side and compare everything. 
Check the diamonds with a diamond tester, sometimes manufacturers use Moissanite instead of diamonds, selling them as diamonds. (No honor among thieves!)
Make sure the reseller has a good return policy.
IMO, once a manufacturer puts a fake serial number on the item, it's only there for one reason -- to fool an unsuspecting buyer somewhere in the purchase life of the item. Even if the original seller sells the item as a replica -- somewhere along the line -- it's going to be tried to be sold as real. Period. That's why I NEVER will buy a replica with a serial number.

The other concern I have is the amount of time big resellers (Fashionphile, TRR, Ann's, Rebag, et al.) spend authenticating lower end purchases. Are these resellers going to be as painstaking in their review of a $2-$7K Vintage or Sweet Alhambra piece as they will on a $40-$50K 20-Motif Turquoise or Lapis necklace? From a business perspective, I think authenticators spend time commensurate with the item's value.

I know that once you get above a certain threshold at TRR, you need to provide purchase receipts. I know because I had to provide the receipt on a large dollar (often replicated) consignment.

If anyone wants to know the differences I found, PM me. I will respond only to long-time posters in the VCA sub-forum.


----------



## marbella8

Thanks @etoupebirkin. I have seen a lot of replicas in downtown la without serial numbers, real gold, and I don’t agree with it, but a clover is a clover and as long as the manufacturer isn’t putting VCA or serial numbers and trying to fool the public and every purchaser thereafter, at least everyone buying knows it’s not Van Cleef. I agree with you once you put on a serial number and/or VCA that puts you in an even-dirtier field because you are trying to make a fake seem real.


----------



## EpiFanatic

At a jewelry show, I saw a vendor who took apart a five motif bracelet and made single motif vintage bracelets.  That was just straight up annoying.  When I commented to them that VCA does not make single vintage motif bracelets, they said it was on the website.  Pulled up the website on my phone and asked them to show me.  Then they said the bracelets were made like that.  People will try to get away with anything.  

Thanks for sharing @etoupebirkin.  

Oh, and I will share one piece I purchased off FP that I returned.  It was a pair vintage alhambra turquoise earrings in WG.  First off, they sent me the wrong COA. When I asked for the correct one they said they don't have it.  The earrings were in excellent condition.  I returned it nonetheless.  Something felt off.  There was one little part near the hinge of the earclip where it wasn't polished.  I compared it to my vintage pave studs, and the part was completely polished.  VCA polishes every surface.  It just didn't feel right.  Fakes are getting really good these days.


----------



## Julezah

etoupebirkin said:


> I recently had a chance to look at a real VCA Alhambra 5-motif bracelet and a high end fake. As a casual observer, the fake looked real. When someone is wearing a fake, you would think it's real. These fakes are made of 18K, stones, and are well-made. They cost 25% to 35% of VCA costs, e.g., a $12K VCA piece, costs $3-$4K replica. The people I know who have bought these items own real VCA, spend $1000s on Chanel, own multiple multi-million dollar homes, etc.
> 
> However, when I laid both bracelets side by side and examined closely, there were definite nuances that "tell" real versus fake. I did not take pictures because I did not want to offend the owner. I will NOT go into the nuances in the open forum. But my advice for persons buying in the reseller market is to:
> 
> Compare a real Alhambra against the purchase. Lay them side by side and compare everything.
> Check the diamonds with a diamond tester, sometimes manufacturers use Moissanite instead of diamonds, selling them as diamonds. (No honor among thieves!)
> Make sure the reseller has a good return policy.
> IMO, once a manufacturer puts a fake serial number on the item, it's only there for one reason -- to fool an unsuspecting buyer somewhere in the purchase life of the item. Even if the original seller sells the item as a replica -- somewhere along the line -- it's going to be tried to be sold as real. Period. That's why I NEVER will buy a replica with a serial number.
> 
> The other concern I have is the amount of time big resellers (Fashionphile, TRR, Ann's, Rebag, et al.) spend authenticating lower end purchases. Are these resellers going to be as painstaking in their review of a $2-$7K Vintage or Sweet Alhambra piece as they will on a $40-$50K 20-Motif Turquoise or Lapis necklace? From a business perspective, I think authenticators spend time commensurate with the item's value.
> 
> I know that once you get above a certain threshold at TRR, you need to provide purchase receipts. I know because I had to provide the receipt on a large dollar (often replicated) consignment.
> 
> If anyone wants to know the differences I found, PM me. I will respond only to long-time posters in the VCA sub-forum.


This is very interesting to me.  I don’t own any VCA (yet), but love to watch this forum.  I own a lot of Tiffany and am starting to look at other brands.  But this summer I’ve purchased several pre-owned Tiffany pieces and just returned a gold T wire bracelet that by all measures seemed real, but just felt “off” (I own a white gold version of the same purchased from a boutique).  I was thankful to be able to return the bracelet but it has put me off of pre-owned jewelry purchases.  I’d be very curious to hear what was different between the two items, especially the hallmarks and craftsmanship.


----------



## Notorious Pink

Thank you so much for starting this thread @etoupebirkin .

This is a huge issue we should all be aware of. It’s easy to spot the fake Instagram sellers with ten of the same piece, but often it’s not that clear. There are pieces I’ve seen from well-regarded resellers that just seemed….off. Something about the distance between motifs, or, really, it _just didn’t seem to lay right_…but any new buyer or someone who didn’t know these pieces could easily be fooled.

I would love to be able to discuss known or obvious fakes. Like you, I wouldn't necessarily discuss what authenticates pieces in a public forum, but calling out fakes would be a valuable resource here.


----------



## etoupebirkin

Notorious Pink said:


> Thank you so much for starting this thread @etoupebirkin .
> 
> This is a huge issue we should all be aware of. It’s easy to spot the fake Instagram sellers with ten of the same piece, but often it’s not that clear. There are pieces I’ve seen from well-regarded resellers that just seemed….off. Something about the distance between motifs, or, really, it _just didn’t seem to lay right_…but any new buyer or someone who didn’t know these pieces could easily be fooled.
> 
> I would love to be able to discuss known or obvious fakes. Like you, I wouldn't necessarily discuss what authenticates pieces in a public forum, but calling out fakes would be a valuable resource here.


I agree. Thank you for helping me frame this discussion.


----------



## missie1

As a newbie to VCA this information is invaluable and I’m thankful to you wonderful ladies for pointers on what to watch out for when purchasing from resellers.  Especially as I’m interested in few discontinued items that I haven’t stumbled across yet. The knowledge is truly invaluable


----------



## sjunky13

etoupebirkin said:


> I recently had a chance to look at a real VCA Alhambra 5-motif bracelet and a high end fake. As a casual observer, the fake looked real. When someone is wearing a fake, you would think it's real. These fakes are made of 18K, stones, and are well-made. They cost 25% to 35% of VCA costs, e.g., a $12K VCA piece, costs $3-$4K replica. The people I know who have bought these items own real VCA, spend $1000s on Chanel, own multiple multi-million dollar homes, etc.
> 
> However, when I laid both bracelets side by side and examined closely, there were definite nuances that "tell" real versus fake. I did not take pictures because I did not want to offend the owner. I will NOT go into the nuances in the open forum. But my advice for persons buying in the reseller market is to:
> 
> Compare a real Alhambra against the purchase. Lay them side by side and compare everything.
> Check the diamonds with a diamond tester, sometimes manufacturers use Moissanite instead of diamonds, selling them as diamonds. (No honor among thieves!)
> Make sure the reseller has a good return policy.
> IMO, once a manufacturer puts a fake serial number on the item, it's only there for one reason -- to fool an unsuspecting buyer somewhere in the purchase life of the item. Even if the original seller sells the item as a replica -- somewhere along the line -- it's going to be tried to be sold as real. Period. That's why I NEVER will buy a replica with a serial number.
> 
> The other concern I have is the amount of time big resellers (Fashionphile, TRR, Ann's, Rebag, et al.) spend authenticating lower end purchases. Are these resellers going to be as painstaking in their review of a $2-$7K Vintage or Sweet Alhambra piece as they will on a $40-$50K 20-Motif Turquoise or Lapis necklace? From a business perspective, I think authenticators spend time commensurate with the item's value.
> 
> I know that once you get above a certain threshold at TRR, you need to provide purchase receipts. I know because I had to provide the receipt on a large dollar (often replicated) consignment.
> 
> If anyone wants to know the differences I found, PM me. I will respond only to long-time posters in the VCA sub-forum.




TY for starting this thread. 
I recently saw a yt video that showed a high quality fake right next to Authentic VCA The video creator showed all the differences under a loop . Not many people saw the differences and thought it a waste to pay for the real thing. To the naked eye many can pass with a quick glance . It is when you hold the item and look for details that the fake makes itself known. The detail and finish are way off.   
I guess many people don't care about the small details, quality and artistic integrity? 

I have seen a lot of fake VCA on influencers on Insta and YT as well. I think a lot of people who buy fakes are still wearing originals. 
I have stories I could tell working in luxury cosmetics.


----------



## lynne_ross

A woman at my husband’s work has VCA, Cartier, Tiffany jewellery replicated in the same material. I met her and she was wearing the 2 butterfly ring and I assumed it was real but she will fully admit it is a replica. I was a bit astonished since it looked exactly same to my eye and she can afford the vca price tags but does not value that. I do not have an eye for details so I stick to boutique. I would only buy from someone I know well and can confirm they got from boutique.


----------



## marbella8

There’s a woman, married to a wealthy man. She has a crazy-arm stack that puts most people’s to shame. She is always dressed well and very nice.

Anyhow, she has at least 3 or 4 Cartier Loves, pavés and multiple diamonds, I believe 2 Perlee Clovers, at least one Cartier Nail, and I can’t even remember the rest. Mind you, she has a stunning ring, but I wonder if it’s mossanite after what I was told. I’ve never thought her stack looked fake, but I never stared, bc I assumed based on the way she lives and spends, it was all authentic.

Someone who is closer to her than I am recently revealed to me that she told her that her whole stack of arm candy is real gold but not authentic. 

Anyhow, I think you are right @etoupebirkin there are a lot more of these wealthy women around us with what look like VCA or Cartier and they are just copies. That’s not even counting all the non-gold fakes everyone else is wearing.


----------



## Ylesiya

My 5 cents as I have been authenticating branded jewellery of some famous brands for quite some time already.
Please don't beat me up (haha  ) but in principle I do not mind replicas as long as people are aware of what they are buying and pay a fair price for it. What I strongly resent and fight as much as I possibly can is selling counterfeits as an original brand at the price one would pay for an authentic piece. The brands would still earn their fair share regardless but in the end it will be the ordinary people who will actually suffer. This is what drives me completely mad.

I would like to point out the following: even within the brand itself there may be _inconsistencies_ in finishings, engravings, settings and so on. This may depend on the year and country of production. Certain markings and design bits changed over time.

Authentication is an art - this is what I think. I do consider myself a semi pro in authenticating Chanel fashion and fine jewellery but GOSH it is hard sometimes. VCA, Tiffany and Cartier are also not easy, especially when one is talking about really, really high quality replicas. If you put two authentic VCA bracelets one next to another, they may still differ and I obviously will not go into the details how exactly. So it is not fair to advice to go to the store and compare. I know a number of cases where people went completely crazy thinking their authentic pieces are fake, just because they were produced some time ago.

If you see an engraving which looks off to you, this is not a high end replica. A modern high end replica would have an engraving which would look exactly like authentic one and I am not even mentioning other details. One has to look at the subtle differences and know the history of the brand, variations and other aspects to determine whether the item is authentic or not.

In certain cases I can spot very good fakes on eBay which are marketed as authentic. In some cases I really struggle and I would need to see that particular piece in real life to come to a conclusion.

Long story short: if one wears a really high end fake in front of you, you will never see the difference. Going to the store and comparing may or may not help: there are too man variables to look at.


----------



## Julezah

Ylesiya said:


> My 5 cents as I have been authenticating branded jewellery of some famous brands for quite some time already.
> Please don't beat me up (haha  ) but in principle I do not mind replicas as long as people are aware of what they are buying and pay a fair price for it. What I strongly resent and fight as much as I possibly can is selling counterfeits as an original brand at the price one would pay for an authentic piece. The brands would still earn their fair share regardless but in the end it will be the ordinary people who will actually suffer. This is what drives me completely mad.
> 
> I would like to point out the following: even within the brand itself there may be _inconsistencies_ in finishings, engravings, settings and so on. This may depend on the year and country of production. Certain markings and design bits changed over time.
> 
> Authentication is an art - this is what I think. I do consider myself a semi pro in authenticating Chanel fashion and fine jewellery but GOSH it is hard sometimes. VCA, Tiffany and Cartier are also not easy, especially when one is talking about really, really high quality replicas. If you put two authentic VCA bracelets one next to another, they may still differ and I obviously will not go into the details how exactly. So it is not fair to advice to go to the store and compare. I know a number of cases where people went completely crazy thinking their authentic pieces are fake, just because they were produced some time ago.
> 
> If you see an engraving which looks off to you, this is not a high end replica. A modern high end replica would have an engraving which would look exactly like authentic one and I am not even mentioning other details. One has to look at the subtle differences and know the history of the brand, variations and other aspects to determine whether the item is authentic or not.
> 
> In certain cases I can spot very good fakes on eBay which are marketed as authentic. In some cases I really struggle and I would need to see that particular piece in real life to come to a conclusion.
> 
> Long story short: if one wears a really high end fake in front of you, you will never see the difference. Going to the store and comparing may or may not help: there are too man variables to look at.


This is what I was personally wondering about. The engraving on the piece I returned looked very similar/identical to authentic items to me.  Thank you for this explanation.


----------



## Bisoux78

True story: I was at the VCA Short Hills boutique this past weekend to pick up my earrings and this woman (impeccably dressed mind you) was wearing an obvious MOP Vintage Alhambra fake. It looked so off, from the type of chain to the actual size of the pendant. She either didn't know or just had a lot of hutzpah. 
I used to work at Bergdorf Goodman and I've seen my share of wealthy Park Avenue women who openly admit to wearing Moissanite and/or CZ. One told me that she reserves wearing her "real" jewelry for special occasions. To a casual observer, one could never tell.


----------



## Ylesiya

Sorry, I will chip in again, please bear with my boring nagging 

I also have seen quite a bit of really "off" replicas even on random people just bypassing me while I am walking along the street.
With regards to the rich people wearing moissanite and replicas: what I have learned here is that if you are rich it does not mean that you don't count the money. Certain proportion of people simply does not see the value in jewellery, does not like wearing it and they consider buying jewellery a waste of money. Some people are crazy about the bags or cars or whatever else and some people really don't get the obsession. Same here. While status often obliges them to wear something really impressive, they don't want to spend extra on it, if a way cheaper version can look the same. So to be honest, I do get it.

I would not buy a lab grown diamond myself while others are completely happy being able to afford them at a fraction of the "real thing's" price which is totally ok as well. 

If one is buying a replica consciously, it does not really affect the brand too much IMHO: you can't fool people with cheap replicas and high end ones look exactly the same. Those who appreciate the value of the authentic pieces, will for sure go to the store and spend money there. Those who can't afford a Lotus ring and order a replica for the fraction of the price would not go to the store anyway. 

Some time ago I was checking a list of the sold VCA items on eBay and this is where I got completely furious seeing counterfeits being advertised and sold as authentic VCA pieces at high prices. One can say "don't buy pre owned" but sometimes there is no other choice: the stores often don't have stock and some items are booked out way in advance. I consider myself lucky I was able to secure dangling MOP earrings as they are just never available.

Sometimes people advice to do the "store check" by bringing the item to the store and let the SA look at it and clean it/polish it on the spot. Be careful with this type of verification as many SAs are just not skilled enough so one could run into the opposite problem where an authentic piece is being declared a fake. On a number of occasions I experienced Tiffany's, Cartier, VCA SAs not recognising their own pieces, especially vintage, older or limited models. Bear in mind these people do not have extensive training and real authentication is done only at the service centers or head offices by the experts.


----------



## 880

@etoupebirkin, thank you for starting such an insightful thread! @Ylesiya, I’ve really learned a lot from reading your posts and that of others here.  I would say that for highly replicated lines like Alhambra, ITA better to buy from the boutique. If you love vintage VCA, buy from either the heritage counter at VCA flagship or a very experienced, reputable vintage dealer who can provide provenance, and also of course do your own due diligence.


----------



## Junkenpo

Oh my gosh... it surprised me to find out that there are replica communities out there similar to tPF and so many ways to get copies of whatever it is you want, but donʻt want the authentic price tag to go with it. I knew it happened with purses when I was actively into LV, but for some reason, it never occurred to me that jewelry, houseware, electronics, and clothing were copied, too. Some people are looking for "good enough" not really 1:1, but just like the style... some people are into the nitty-gritty and count stitches and links and measure the length and weigh it and compare stamps, etc... really looking for it to pass.  It really makes it difficult to trust a secondary source if youʻre not buying direct from the company.


----------



## Pursi

My first van cleef single pendant was the Bull's Eye Holiday necklace I bought on FP earlier the year. I thought who would counterfeit a unpopular piece (reading on the forums, this wasn't a favorite here it seems.) I then got a MOP regular single pendant this summer (from VCA website). The necklace lengths were slightly off. When I called VCA they said well its hand made lengths can vary...etc. (I told her hmmm, my 10 motif necklaces are all the same length-bought different years etc). I sent in the MOP for lengthening and the person handling the repair told me how their length on single pendants are measured. So now I wonder about the FP piece. Has anyone seen that particular holiday pendant counterfeited? I looked it over with a loupe and it looks great. I got a COA that looks legit...I normally don't buy second hand except for pieces that are no longer made (a few Tiffany's which were sent in for adjusting and this VCA piece. If I sent in for adjusting length would that be a way of quasi-athenticating it? FP included a note with purchase they will buy back for lower price.)


----------



## marbella8

Pursi said:


> My first van cleef single pendant was the Bull's Eye Holiday necklace I bought on FP earlier the year. I thought who would counterfeit a unpopular piece (reading on the forums, this wasn't a favorite here it seems.) I then got a MOP regular single pendant this summer (from VCA website). The necklace lengths were slightly off. When I called VCA they said well its hand made lengths can vary...etc. (I told her hmmm, my 10 motif necklaces are all the same length-bought different years etc). I sent in the MOP for lengthening and the person handling the repair told me how their length on single pendants are measured. So now I wonder about the FP piece. Has anyone seen that particular holiday pendant counterfeited? I looked it over with a loupe and it looks great. I got a COA that looks legit...I normally don't buy second hand except for pieces that are no longer made (a few Tiffany's which were sent in for adjusting and this VCA piece. If I sent in for adjusting length would that be a way of quasi-athenticating it? FP included a note with purchase they will buy back for lower price.)



I have pendants from different years and the lengths are not 100% the same but close enough. Why don’t you have it lengthened, pay the fee for it, and then you’ll know if they do it, it’s authentic.


----------



## Bisoux78

Pursi said:


> My first van cleef single pendant was the Bull's Eye Holiday necklace I bought on FP earlier the year. I thought who would counterfeit a unpopular piece (reading on the forums, this wasn't a favorite here it seems.) I then got a MOP regular single pendant this summer (from VCA website). The necklace lengths were slightly off. When I called VCA they said well its hand made lengths can vary...etc. (I told her hmmm, my 10 motif necklaces are all the same length-bought different years etc). I sent in the MOP for lengthening and the person handling the repair told me how their length on single pendants are measured. So now I wonder about the FP piece. Has anyone seen that particular holiday pendant counterfeited? I looked it over with a loupe and it looks great. I got a COA that looks legit...I normally don't buy second hand except for pieces that are no longer made (a few Tiffany's which were sent in for adjusting and this VCA piece. If I sent in for adjusting length would that be a way of quasi-athenticating it? FP included a note with purchase they will buy back for lower price.)


I own 8 vintage alhambra pendants and the length is roughly anywhere from exactly 16.25-16.5 inches. FP is a trusted seller on TPF...I've personally never had any problems. For piece of mind, bring in your necklace to a VCA boutique to be serviced. They'll ask for the COA and you'll find out if the piece looks questionable.


----------



## DS2006

Pursi said:


> My first van cleef single pendant was the Bull's Eye Holiday necklace I bought on FP earlier the year. I thought who would counterfeit a unpopular piece (reading on the forums, this wasn't a favorite here it seems.) I then got a MOP regular single pendant this summer (from VCA website). The necklace lengths were slightly off. When I called VCA they said well its hand made lengths can vary...etc. (I told her hmmm, my 10 motif necklaces are all the same length-bought different years etc). I sent in the MOP for lengthening and the person handling the repair told me how their length on single pendants are measured. So now I wonder about the FP piece. Has anyone seen that particular holiday pendant counterfeited? I looked it over with a loupe and it looks great. I got a COA that looks legit...I normally don't buy second hand except for pieces that are no longer made (a few Tiffany's which were sent in for adjusting and this VCA piece. If I sent in for adjusting length would that be a way of quasi-athenticating it? FP included a note with purchase they will buy back for lower price.)



If VCA won't adjust length due to it not being authentic, then you have the right to ask FP for a full refund of what you paid, not the lower buyback amount if you later decide you don't want an item. I would be surprised if the Bull's Eye is a replica, but getting the chain adjusted is the best way to find out at no cost to you. Be sure you get a receipt for the adjustment if they do it, so that if you do later decide to sell it, you have additional confirmation of authenticity.  If it is not authentic, I'd want that in writing, too, so that you have some proof to get a refund from FP.  They can be fooled on authenticity, too.


----------



## A bottle of Red

Btw the thread i created a few weeks ago about a company called kiss clovers who claim to replicate vca (and others), uses the term "authentic" a lot on their site, as well as claim to use "authentic serial numbers" and are very proud that "no one will know the difference".  
So please before buying anything pre-loved try to somehow check & make sure it's not one of their replicas.


----------



## chaneljewel

This is such an eye opener.  I’m always hesitant to purchase any VCA from secondary sites as I worry about authenticity.   Thanks for starting this thread EB!


----------



## etoupebirkin

Please be advised I am ONLY providing my private observations via PM to persons who are long time and frequent posters in the VCA sub forum or OGs with significant contributions on TPF.


----------



## cloee

I’ve seen many on instagram that are replicas and they do look like the real thing. I only have a few VCA pieces and not an expert by any means. Also the reason why I hesitate on buying pieces from resale. I missed out on the pink holiday and would have actually wanted to get one. There are vca inspired styles from jewelers so they are out there but at least not marketed as authentic vca and there will be some obvious differences. To someone else, this may also look like a fake vca.


----------



## this_is_rj

This is a great thread. A lot of the replicas look very good, but I don't think anyone who knows the brand would be fooled when purchasing preloved. From what I have seen online either the engraving, clasps or packaging is off, although sometimes the differences are small. Things that are hard to pick up if someone is of course wearing the item but if purchasing yourself especially from a trusted reseller, I think the risk is minimal, as long as you do your due diligence and can return if you find something amiss.


----------



## mikimoto007

this_is_rj said:


> This is a great thread. A lot of the replicas look very good, but I don't think anyone who knows the brand would be fooled when purchasing preloved. From what I have seen online either the engraving, clasps or packaging is off, although sometimes the differences are small. Things that are hard to pick up if someone is of course wearing the item but if purchasing yourself especially from a trusted reseller, I think the risk is minimal, as long as you do your due diligence and can return if you find something amiss.



I think the big problem arises when its older VCA. There's been subtle changes and tweaks throughout the years on pieces. Its one thing looking and comparing at today's model, but another when it's an older piece.


----------



## Ylesiya

Pursi said:


> My first van cleef single pendant was the Bull's Eye Holiday necklace I bought on FP earlier the year. I thought who would counterfeit a unpopular piece (reading on the forums, this wasn't a favorite here it seems.) I then got a MOP regular single pendant this summer (from VCA website). The necklace lengths were slightly off. When I called VCA they said well its hand made lengths can vary...etc. (I told her hmmm, my 10 motif necklaces are all the same length-bought different years etc). I sent in the MOP for lengthening and the person handling the repair told me how their length on single pendants are measured. So now I wonder about the FP piece. Has anyone seen that particular holiday pendant counterfeited? I looked it over with a loupe and it looks great. I got a COA that looks legit...I normally don't buy second hand except for pieces that are no longer made (a few Tiffany's which were sent in for adjusting and this VCA piece. If I sent in for adjusting length would that be a way of quasi-athenticating it? FP included a note with purchase they will buy back for lower price.)



FP are quite good in authenticating overall. And obviously the item you bought is a pre-owned, so previous owner could do some adjustments to the length when the item was originally bought.
VCA has good certificates with a nice hologram which can't be fully replicated at this point, so it this is looking good then the item is legit. But of course no one can tell for sure based on the description only


----------



## opensesame

I once tried to purchase carnelian holiday pendant on 1stdibs priced at a premium (almost double). Since I’m a newbie, I asked my SA to make sure that this design can’t be SO’ed. He shot me a quick text warning me not to make the purchase from 1stdibs, hinting that the item is fake. It sold few days later.


----------



## Happyish

opensesame said:


> I once tried to purchase carnelian holiday pendant on 1stdibs priced at a premium (almost double). Since I’m a newbie, I asked my SA to make sure that this design can’t be SO’ed. He shot me a quick text warning me not to make the purchase from 1stdibs, hinting that the item is fake. It sold few days later.


I'm so sorry. He just didn't want to lose the sale. SA's will often hint that something's not authentic, in order to dissuade a potential customer from buying on the secondary market. But if you have a piece you no longer want, where are you going to sell it? The secondary market. And if there are no buyers on the secondary market, it undermines the value of your collection, as it renders your collection unsaleable. 

The bottom line is that many authentic pieces come up on the secondary market. @Ylesiya is correct, you need to be careful. However, I also know many "reputable dealers" who sell counterfeits. Moreover, dealers get taken too.

The point is, _you_ need to know what you're buying and _you_ need to familiarize yourself with the maker's marks, design specifications, etc. The more you see, the more insight you have when you examine a piece. I regularly buy on the secondary market, but then again, I like vintage pieces and that's generally the only way to collect them. Finally, if I don't have full documentation on a high value item, I will pay for authentication. This is for two reasons: peace of mind and to obtain documentation as it will make it easier to sell should I decide to do so in the future.


----------



## Ylesiya

opensesame said:


> I once tried to purchase carnelian holiday pendant on 1stdibs priced at a premium (almost double). Since I’m a newbie, I asked my SA to make sure that this design can’t be SO’ed. He shot me a quick text warning me not to make the purchase from 1stdibs, hinting that the item is fake. It sold few days later.



I would not trust or make ANY conclusions out of "hinting SAs" for a number of reasons:

- They need you to come and buy from the store, not from outside
- No one in their own mind wants to take responsibility for your purchases outside the store
- I will repeat again that they are not trained to authenticate the jewellery even physically in the store, leave alone based on the online images!
- Most importantly, for them it is a compliance breach to give you this sort of advice.

There are PLENTY of wonderful, totally authentic and beautiful pre owned pieces available online. I feel bad for some sellers who got accused for selling a fake only because buyers don't know what they are buying.

I sold once a Sweet carnelian bracelet originally bought in Paris at Place Vendome (sigh!), with boxes and cert but the buyer freaked out because the clasp was old style (that bigger, rectangular, fatter clasp which VCA replaced later with the current teardrop lobster clasp). Plenty of accusations of selling a fake - it took me quite some time to explain that this item was authentic. In fact, fakes don't come with this type of clasp these days, so in general this is a pretty good indication that item is genuine.

I saw people freaking out seeing old settings in vintage alhambra pieces and getting hysterical - for example some bought old turquoise pendants and realised the beads look different compared to the modern settings, and then demanding returns, accusing of selling fakes etc... It's very painful.


----------



## Glitterbomb

I have definitely seen some fakes sneak in on popular, reputable, trusted websites (that I myself have bought from and still buy from). The unfortunate truth of the matter is that resellers and consignment shops get a ton of inventory and I just don't believe they have the time or energy to properly authenticate EVERY individual piece even if they say they are doing so. They most likely even have the best of intentions and still fakes can accidentally slip through. 

No one should just blindly trust any reseller. You need to know what you are buying, and get yourself familiar with the brand, the intricate details of the item, how designs may have changed over the years, serial numbers according to the year the item is from, font, etc. 

Yes, super fakes exist...so be vigilant. I have never seen a super fake where there wasn't at least one tell, if you throughly examine the item and KNOW what the authentic version should be like. 

As for people buying replica jewelry and other replica items like handbags, shoes, clothing, etc - yes, this exists. There are entire forums just like TPF where people discuss replicas. Not everyone can afford real designer items and some people want the look without the price. There are some people who can actually afford the real thing, and still don't want to spend that amount of money so they buy replicas. Local jewelers near me openly display and sell replica VCA and Cartier, and they will tell you upfront they are replicas.


----------



## opensesame

Thanks for the info. SA was never going to make or break a sale on an item that isn’t available; I think he was genuinely trying to help me. I later realized the dates on the certification cannot be correct. I just wanted to let people know that it replicas do appear on reputable sites (as many ppl already know)


----------



## jenayb

opensesame said:


> Thanks for the info. SA was never going to make or break a sale on an item that isn’t available; I think he was genuinely trying to help me. I later realized the dates on the certification cannot be correct. I just wanted to let people know that it replicas do appear on reputable sites (as many ppl already know)


True.

But for your SA, it may not have been that he was thinking he could sell an item to you that is unavailable - that’s obvious; however, he may have been thinking that you could allocate those funds to something that IS available that he DOES have, if you know what I mean.


----------



## gagabag

VCA definitely has gone more popular than years ago when I got hooked to it.
I have seen some local jewellers auctioning clover motif necklace that could fool an untrained eye. Of course they didn’t claim it as VCA but it could pass as.
My DH said I’m a preloved snob, and that I am. I don’t like doubting any of my purchase so I always stick to the boutiques and only buy new, even if that means I pay more or miss out. 
Be careful ladies, there will be more of these passed as real coming for sure.


----------



## lilpikachu

gagabag said:


> VCA definitely has gone more popular than years ago when I got hooked to it.
> I have seen some local jewellers auctioning clover motif necklace that could fool an untrained eye. Of course they didn’t claim it as VCA but it could pass as.
> My DH said I’m a preloved snob, and that I am.* I don’t like doubting any of my purchase so I always stick to the boutiques and only buy new, even if that means I pay more or miss out.*
> Be careful ladies, there will be more of these passed as real coming for sure.


I’m the same.  I don’t know enough about VCA to be able to identify a vintage piece/authenticate so I would rather deal with my SA and have piece of mind about my purchase.  I don’t purchase luxury often so it’s a big deal to me when I drop money on an item I’ve been saving up for.


----------



## ccgirl5606

I am new to VCA and was waiting to see the holiday pendant for 2021. The pink color didn’t really speak to me so I was thinking of purchasing a 2007 YG MOP HP from ebay. I feel like I am going in so blind since I have no experience with VCA. The item looks real to my untrained eye and says it comes with a certificate of authenticity but I feel so hesitant. I saw that people are selling blank certificates for VCA online  So messed up what shady people will do.


----------



## Anin96

For your first piece try to avoid buying from eBay.  It may cost more but the peace of mind and the overall experience of visiting a store (if you can), getting the whole luxe shebang is worth the extra coin (esp. if you are a once-in-a-while luxury shopper like me).  Get a bit more familiarity and experience before buying from third party sellers. There's a lot of motivation to scam VCA goods since they're expensive with high demand.  Good luck!


----------



## Junkenpo

ccgirl5606 said:


> I am new to VCA and was waiting to see the holiday pendant for 2021. The pink color didn’t really speak to me so I was thinking of purchasing a 2007 YG MOP HP from ebay. I feel like I am going in so blind since I have no experience with VCA. The item looks real to my untrained eye and says it comes with a certificate of authenticity but I feel so hesitant. I saw that people are selling blank certificates for VCA online  So messed up what shady people will do.



I would be very, very careful about buying on ebay if you are new.  Yes, the jewelers who make the fakes also make fake certificates and packaging. 

Do you live near a boutique?  I highly recommend going in to look at and handle the pieces youʻre interested in - get familiar with the level of quality and what the hallmarks look like and how clasps and engravings have changed over time. Youʻve gone this long without a piece, it can wait a little longer until you can be sure at making the identification yourself or you can decide if youʻve found a trustworthy reseller.


----------



## ccgirl5606

I don’t really live close to one so was planning on purchasing the MOP alhambra online from their website if I did buy from VCA. But the HP is so pretty with the diamond in the middle. I thought my first piece should be the one that I wanted the most but it’s so hard to find the white MOP HP and esp from a trustworthy seller. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## DS2006

ccgirl5606 said:


> I am new to VCA and was waiting to see the holiday pendant for 2021. The pink color didn’t really speak to me so I was thinking of purchasing a 2007 YG MOP HP from ebay. I feel like I am going in so blind since I have no experience with VCA. The item looks real to my untrained eye and says it comes with a certificate of authenticity but I feel so hesitant. I saw that people are selling blank certificates for VCA online  So messed up what shady people will do.





ccgirl5606 said:


> I don’t really live close to one so was planning on purchasing the MOP alhambra online from their website if I did buy from VCA. But the HP is so pretty with the diamond in the middle. I thought my first piece should be the one that I wanted the most but it’s so hard to find the white MOP HP and esp from a trustworthy seller. Thanks for the advice.



Much better idea to buy the gold MOP pendant from a boutique brand new!!!


----------



## purseinsanity

EpiFanatic said:


> At a jewelry show, I saw a vendor who took apart a five motif bracelet and made single motif vintage bracelets.  That was just straight up annoying.  When I commented to them that VCA does not make single vintage motif bracelets, they said it was on the website.  Pulled up the website on my phone and asked them to show me.  Then they said the bracelets were made like that.  People will try to get away with anything.
> 
> Thanks for sharing @etoupebirkin.
> 
> Oh, and I will share one piece I purchased off FP that I returned.  It was a pair vintage alhambra turquoise earrings in WG.  First off, they sent me the wrong COA. When I asked for the correct one they said they don't have it.  The earrings were in excellent condition.  I returned it nonetheless.  Something felt off.  There was one little part near the hinge of the earclip where it wasn't polished.  I compared it to my vintage pave studs, and the part was completely polished.  VCA polishes every surface.  It just didn't feel right.  *Fakes are getting really good these days.*


ITA, which is why I never really buy anything second hand.  I am clueless if something is fake (unless it's blatantly obvious).  The thought of spending thousands on something fake drives me nuts.


----------



## purseinsanity

My daughter was about 10 years old and constantly ogling my turquoise Alhambra.  I bought her something similar on Etsy (did not claim to be VCA at all, especially with the $30 price tag) and tried to give it to my daughter.  She actually asked me, "Where did you buy this?  It looks cheap!  It's not your real one."


----------



## ccgirl5606

DS2006 said:


> Much better idea to buy the gold MOP pendant from a boutique brand new!!!



Do they sell the 2018 HP in boutiques? That would be amazing!


----------



## nicole0612

ccgirl5606 said:


> Do they sell the 2018 HP in boutiques? That would be amazing!


No, the HP are limited edition for that year only. I think she was suggesting the white mother of pearl set in yellow gold (no diamond), which is currently available.


----------



## DS2006

Yes, Nicole is correct about what I meant. That little chip of a diamond really doesn't make any difference in the appearance and adds $1000 or more to the cost. I like the plain ones just as well, and certainly if you buy matching pieces like the earrings or bracelet, it will be the solid MOP.  I would not buy a used mother of pearl piece of jewelry unless there was some kind of proof it had never been worn.


----------



## missie1

This weekend I saw in person a high end replica black onyx and pave 5 motif bracelet.  I was blown away by how It was spot on.   I studied it for about 20 minutes and was able to tell 2 things off but only because I was wearing my onyx wg bracelet and was able to compare them side by side.  I purposely wore it so could look it over and compare.  I want to stress to be careful buying preloved because this frankly stunned me.


----------



## etoupebirkin

missie1 said:


> This weekend I saw in person a high end replica black onyx and pave 5 motif bracelet.  I was blown away by how It was spot on.   I studied it for about 20 minutes and was able to tell 2 things off but only because I was wearing my onyx wg bracelet and was able to compare them side by side.  I purposely wore it so could look it over and compare.  I want to stress to be careful buying preloved because this frankly stunned me.


That's why I started this thread.


----------



## missie1

etoupebirkin said:


> That's why I started this thread.


I was stunned it was dead on and the lady paid almost 4k for it.  She brought to my friends who’s a jeweler to have it shortened.   They called me to come see it and it was almost identical.   I had to study it to see the minor differences but to be honest if my bracelet wasn’t there and I didn’t know it was a high end fake I de would’ve thought it was real


----------



## Bisoux78

missie1 said:


> I was stunned it was dead on and the lady paid almost 4k for it.  She brought to my friends who’s a jeweler to have it shortened.   They called me to come see it and it was almost identical.   I had to study it to see the minor differences but to be honest if my bracelet wasn’t there and I didn’t know it was a high end fake I de would’ve thought it was real


It baffles the mind as to why this woman would pay almost 4K for a fake when the real one is only a few hundred dollars more.


----------



## tenshix

Bisoux78 said:


> It baffles the mind as to why this woman would pay almost 4K for a fake when the real one is only a few hundred dollars more.



I believe the onyx pave diamond alternating is $13,800 USD before tax.


----------



## missie1

Bisoux78 said:


> It baffles the mind as to why this woman would pay almost 4K for a fake when the real one is only a few hundred dollars more.


The replica was the pave and Onyx version which Was way more so I suppose she thought she was getting a deal


----------



## Ylesiya

I hate to sound boring or repetitive but even within the brand items may look a bit different from year to year. 
In Cartier it is common to change positioning of the engraving on their love bracelets, for example.
Without knowing what was exactly was examined and who exactly was doing an assessment (even if they are a jeweller, are they experts in VCA?), it is inconclusive to say the item was a replica or not. 
I have seen cases where authentic items were declared fake with a lot of scandals around it and vice versa. Unless it is a badly done replica, a person without deep brand knowledge may not know the difference.
I would suggest to at least indicate where the inconsistencies were to keep the discussion more or less fruitful.


----------



## missie1

Ylesiya said:


> I hate to sound boring or repetitive but even within the brand items may look a bit different from year to year.
> In Cartier it is common to change positioning of the engraving on their love bracelets, for example.
> Without knowing what was exactly was examined and who exactly was doing an assessment (even if they are a jeweller, are they experts in VCA?), it is inconclusive to say the item was a replica or not.
> I have seen cases where authentic items were declared fake with a lot of scandals around it and vice versa. Unless it is a badly done replica, a person without deep brand knowledge may not know the difference.
> I would suggest to at least indicate where the inconsistencies were to keep the discussion more or less fruitful.


The owner freely admitted it was a replica that she purchased.  Also I thought we weren’t discussing the exact inconsistencies openly so that we dont unknowingly help the replica get better


----------



## Ylesiya

missie1 said:


> The owner freely admitted it was a replica that she purchased.  Also I thought we weren’t discussing the exact inconsistencies openly so that we dont unknowingly help the replica get better



In this case yes, my point was more general. 
I don't think there is any harm to specify where the issues were because it is not photos side by side with clearly indicated differences. People who make replicas on the high level have originals in their possession anyway. 

I am observing someone at Vestiaire Collective these days - she keeps uploading her fake VCA jewellery and it gets sold in a blink of an eye. Super suspicious: 3 photos, no documents, price too good to be true and people still buy. Wondering if QC will pick up inauthenticity.


----------



## tenshix

Ylesiya said:


> In this case yes, my point was more general.
> I don't think there is any harm to specify where the issues were because it is not photos side by side with clearly indicated differences. People who make replicas on the high level have originals in their possession anyway.
> 
> I am observing someone at Vestiaire Collective these days - she keeps uploading her fake VCA jewellery and it gets sold in a blink of an eye. Super suspicious: 3 photos, no documents, price too good to be true and people still buy. Wondering if QC will pick up inauthenticity.



I wonder if the people who purchase those Vestiaire items are the same people who are fine with purchasing VCA “inspired” items and don’t mind that it’s not real since they get the “look” for a much cheaper price?

I do wonder if all the repair shops pick up on authenticity or not. My SA told me for the BH location they now outsource a contracted local jeweler to do the adjustments on their pieces so it won’t take as long as shipping everything to their workshop HQ in NYC. Maybe more boutiques are doing it this way by working with local jewelers to save time. I would imagine the outsourced jeweler may not be as stringent in checking if they’re only being paid to shorten or lengthen. In fact, it may be more beneficial for them to do the work even if they knew it was a super fake because they would still get money for the work. For something more complicated I think it would be sent to NY or Paris where they would/should notice the differences but for a simple link removal/adding I really don’t think they would care as much.

I don’t know that the boutiques are able to cross reference all the serial numbers of pieces sold around the world as part of their database. If they did, that would be safest before processing the adjustment/repair.


----------



## Ylesiya

I think there is more plausible idea here: people just take a chance in case they get a real thing at a bargain price. If it's a badly done fake, it will be picked up by QC and buyer gets full refund. If it still passes, one can always authenticate locally (if there is such an option), report counterfeit and still get their money back. But still - brand new type perlee diamond ring for about 1k USD? Are you serious? Also not sure what is the seller's motivation: to me it's so obvious her ring is a fake, so only an idiot will declare it conform to the brand standards as it was listed not as "non-branded" item but under VCA brand. And to get the fake item back, a seller must pay some fees and import tax on their own item if it is being shipped from one country to another.

With regards to outsourcing to the jewellers: I think they still have to go through a certain training in order to recognise authentic stuff otherwise there would be scandals. So far I haven't heard of replicas being serviced by VCA itself. There were discussions about some complex authentications being done but as far as I remember it was about vintage/high jewellery range which requires really deep expertise and maybe even digging up archives in Paris.

Modern mass production lines such as alhambra, perlee etc surely can be authenticated much easier. I even suspect the difference may be in gold composition itself as well.


----------



## Bisoux78

tenshix said:


> I believe the onyx pave diamond alternating is $13,800 USD before tax.


Ah! I thought she was referring to the regular 5-motif onyx bracelet...I totally misread her post.


----------



## rwhite

I guess it makes sense with the blank certs I've seen on eBay in the past...  I'm slightly concerned they will get so good that even the boutiques can't tell them apart.


----------



## cali_to_ny

Ylesiya said:


> In this case yes, my point was more general.
> I don't think there is any harm to specify where the issues were because it is not photos side by side with clearly indicated differences. People who make replicas on the high level have originals in their possession anyway.
> 
> I am observing someone at Vestiaire Collective these days - she keeps uploading her fake VCA jewellery and it gets sold in a blink of an eye. Super suspicious: 3 photos, no documents, price too good to be true and people still buy. Wondering if QC will pick up inauthenticity.


I'm surprised VC allowed these to be posted to begin with - the last time I sold something on there (a handbag, not jewelry) they requested additional photos for authentication purposes before they approved my item for sale.


----------



## Ylesiya

cali_to_ny said:


> I'm surprised VC allowed these to be posted to begin with - the last time I sold something on there (a handbag, not jewelry) they requested additional photos for authentication purposes before they approved my item for sale.



I think they are also trying to motivate new sellers this way which is, of course, ridiculous. I've sold 100+ items on VC and even until now sometimes they give me a grief over the photos and my pics I believe are extremely detailed and good. 
I can't understand how they allow such items like VCA with only about 3 blurred photos to be allowed on the website. No clear photos of markings, no packaging, nothing. Ridiculously low price for an item of such value - these all are immediate red flags which should turn on the alarms in someone's mind. Previously I could not understand why people are asking for the original or at least copied invoices as the items would be authenticated by VC but having been with them, I don't trust their expertise.

Going back to the main point: always check yourself what you are buying. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but typically sincere sellers would show all the details about the item, even if they don't have original packaging/documents, so that the buyer can verify authenticity independently.

A few days ago I've seen a really very good replica of the guilloche bracelet and I really doubt anyone would be able to see the difference in the photos. 
Another difference which I believe is not possible to replicate is metal composition. This is not 100% information but based on my understanding, major jewellery houses use their own metal alloys. 75% gold but remaining 25% are different metals which affect properties of the final alloy. Hence, the brand itself will always see the difference.


----------



## pursemaniac1969

missie1 said:


> The owner freely admitted it was a replica that she purchased.  Also I thought we weren’t discussing the exact inconsistencies openly so that we dont unknowingly help the replica get better


There is no need to discuss, rep jewelers buy auth to replicate. I know many would buy high quality 18k rep for fraction if and how.


----------



## vivii

Ylesiya said:


> I think they are also trying to motivate new sellers this way which is, of course, ridiculous. I've sold 100+ items on VC and even until now sometimes they give me a grief over the photos and my pics I believe are extremely detailed and good.
> I can't understand how they allow such items like VCA with only about 3 blurred photos to be allowed on the website. No clear photos of markings, no packaging, nothing. Ridiculously low price for an item of such value - these all are immediate red flags which should turn on the alarms in someone's mind. Previously I could not understand why people are asking for the original or at least copied invoices as the items would be authenticated by VC but having been with them, I don't trust their expertise.
> 
> Going back to the main point: always check yourself what you are buying. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but typically sincere sellers would show all the details about the item, even if they don't have original packaging/documents, so that the buyer can verify authenticity independently.
> 
> A few days ago I've seen a really very good replica of the guilloche bracelet and I really doubt anyone would be able to see the difference in the photos.
> Another difference which I believe is not possible to replicate is metal composition. This is not 100% information but based on my understanding, major jewellery houses use their own metal alloys. 75% gold but remaining 25% are different metals which affect properties of the final alloy. Hence, the brand itself will always see the difference.



Are you able to pm me photo of the guilloche replica? I've heard many times people saying high end replicas exist but I've never seen any photos and want to see if I can see the difference myself (as I own the guilloche set myself).


----------



## tenshix

Reviving this thread because I was googling for fun to see if there were any LE Sweet YG pavè 6 motif bracelet on the secondhand market and it reminded me of why I never had the guts to purchase pre-loved jewelry. I ended up clicking this photo to a thread on Reddit and upon first glance it looks very authentic but in the close up photos of the clasp and chain near the clasp you can tell it’s not. I am baffled, the person paid around $500 USD for it. There is a whole forum on Reddit dedicated to designer super fakes and it made me very uncomfortable.

I don’t know if I’m allowed to directly link but you can look up “RepLadies” on Reddit and it will show up. One of the top recent posts is a comparison of 2 different guilloche super fakes from different suppliers and despite owning some guilloche pieces myself I have to say I wouldn’t be able to tell at a glance those pieces in the photos are fake. Yikes. I guess the rise of these super cheap super fakes could also contribute to some TPF’ers mentioning they’ve been seeing VCA more on social media/YT and IRL.

(Mods if I’m not allowed to mention this Reddit thread please let me know and I’ll remove it from my post, thank you!)


----------



## DeryaHm

In my home country fakes are very common. As someone said above the counterfeiters buy real and make the fake based on them. Some shops also claimed to be run by former artisans of the houses they copy. One (bags) seemed to be true as it was in the news, but I don’t know how true it is widely. I never considered buying but went with friends and family who did. Super fakes of jewelry or bags or watches in my observation always have some errors or flaw that even some fakers who used to work as artisans for the brands somehow can’t get right. Once in a bag shop the owner complimented my real bag and even said in front of my friends which part he couldn’t get right. I didn’t let him look at it or anything, he was already familiar w its details. She still bought one of his fakes :shrug:

I agree these are probably behind a lot of the idea that designer goods are more common, but I remember seeing tons of fake VCA of varying quality in the covered bazar long before I ever heard of social media and influencers. Never saw the appeal as the fakes are expensive enough that you’d be better off just buying a nice non-branded or less known piece


----------



## fice16

Dear ladies, I have a question about the super fakes -  Do you normally see more popular VCA collection being counterfeited (i.e. Alhambra)?
How about other slightly less popular collection (e.g. Frivole, Butterfly, high jewelry collection)?

I am just wondering if I should focus my future VCA purchase on other less common VCA collections, given there are so many super fakes on Alhambra collection...

Thanks in advance for any insights you can share.


----------



## DeryaHm

fice16 said:


> Dear ladies, I have a question about the super fakes -  Do you normally see more popular VCA collection being counterfeited (i.e. Alhambra)?
> How about other slightly less popular collection (e.g. Frivole, Butterfly, high jewelry collection)?
> 
> I am just wondering if I should focus my future VCA purchase on other less common VCA collections, given there are so many super fakes on Alhambra collection...
> 
> Thanks in advance for any insights you can share.



I would not worry about it. As a person from a country where fakes of everything is commonly available, there are super fakes of everything. Like every thing, from pens to polo shirts to antiques to art forgery to it bags to obscure lines. Basically if it is made there is a fake, so don’t even take it into account when making your own purchases because the crazy niche fakes are probably out there.

I definitely wouldn’t take this into account when choosing things to buy. Buy what makes you look and feel good. Whatever people are doing on the fake market has no bearing on that. If you’re worried for insurance or resale just keep and copy all documentation


----------



## tenshix

Safa said:


> I would not worry about it. As a person from a country where fakes of everything is commonly available, there are super fakes of everything. Like every thing, from pens to polo shirts to antiques to art forgery to it bags to obscure lines. Basically if it is made there is a fake, so don’t even take it into account when making your own purchases because the crazy niche fakes are probably out there.
> 
> I definitely wouldn’t take this into account when choosing things to buy. Buy what makes you look and feel good. Whatever people are doing on the fake market has no bearing on that. If you’re worried for insurance or resale just keep and copy all documentation



Absolutely agree with everything you said!

Buy what you love and makes you feel good, the Alhambra collection is still beautiful and the fakes out there will not make me love mine any less. The craftsmanship and stone quality used must be different, no matter how “good” the super fakes are there’s always mistakes upon closer inspection. I get that some people just want the look for a lot less but personally I purchase high end jewelry because I love the brand and trust the craftsmanship. Don’t let the fakes make you feel like your current pieces are devalued or let the fakes deter you from owning real beautiful pieces yourself!

We work hard for these pieces and should rightfully enjoy them


----------



## fice16

Safa said:


> I would not worry about it. As a person from a country where fakes of everything is commonly available, there are super fakes of everything. Like every thing, from pens to polo shirts to antiques to art forgery to it bags to obscure lines. Basically if it is made there is a fake, so don’t even take it into account when making your own purchases because the crazy niche fakes are probably out there.
> 
> I definitely wouldn’t take this into account when choosing things to buy. Buy what makes you look and feel good. Whatever people are doing on the fake market has no bearing on that. If you’re worried for insurance or resale just keep and copy all documentation





tenshix said:


> Absolutely agree with everything you said!
> 
> Buy what you love and makes you feel good, the Alhambra collection is still beautiful and the fakes out there will not make me love mine any less. The craftsmanship and stone quality used must be different, no matter how “good” the super fakes are there’s always mistakes upon closer inspection. I get that some people just want the look for a lot less but personally I purchase high end jewelry because I love the brand and trust the craftsmanship. Don’t let the fakes make you feel like your current pieces are devalued or let the fakes deter you from owning real beautiful pieces yourself!
> 
> We work hard for these pieces and should rightfully enjoy them




Thank you Safa and Tenshix for your insights.  Truly appreciate it.
The reason for my question was mostly due to my fear of VCA not accepting their own jewelries for service or repairs, if I did not keep all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts.  Some TPF members mentioned their experience of VCA not accepting repair if original receipts were not provided.  So, I was just thinking if I better buy the less common VCA pieces, so VCA may not give me a hard time for repair/service in the future.   Of course, I am also concerned if the future resale values of VCA pieces may be impacted if VCA is reluctant to accept jewelries (without original receipt/auth cards) for repair/service.

I think I can try to keep all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts & make copies of them...however, I do have different brands' pieces here and there, and it is honestly very difficult to keep track & keep record of all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts...


----------



## BigAkoya

fice16 said:


> Thank you Safa and Tenshix for your insights.  Truly appreciate it.
> The reason for my question was mostly due to my fear of VCA not accepting their own jewelries for service or repairs, if I did not keep all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts.  Some TPF members mentioned their experience of VCA not accepting repair if original receipts were not provided.  So, I was just thinking if I better buy the less common VCA pieces, so VCA may not give me a hard time for repair/service in the future.   Of course, I am also concerned if the future resale values of VCA pieces may be impacted if VCA is reluctant to accept jewelries (without original receipt/auth cards) for repair/service.
> 
> I think I can try to keep all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts & make copies of them...however, I do have different brands' pieces here and there, and it is honestly very difficult to keep track & keep record of all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts...


I think if you can buy at a boutique in your home country, you will be fine as they will have your purchase history in the system.  

The last time I was in NYC, I went to VCA.  The first thing I did was go upstairs to get my pieces cleaned.  There were no questions asked.  The cleaning person just took my pieces.  I think you will be fine.


----------



## DeryaHm

fice16 said:


> Thank you Safa and Tenshix for your insights.  Truly appreciate it.
> The reason for my question was mostly due to my fear of VCA not accepting their own jewelries for service or repairs, if I did not keep all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts.  Some TPF members mentioned their experience of VCA not accepting repair if original receipts were not provided.  So, I was just thinking if I better buy the less common VCA pieces, so VCA may not give me a hard time for repair/service in the future.   Of course, I am also concerned if the future resale values of VCA pieces may be impacted if VCA is reluctant to accept jewelries (without original receipt/auth cards) for repair/service.
> 
> I think I can try to keep all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts & make copies of them...however, I do have different brands' pieces here and there, and it is honestly very difficult to keep track & keep record of all the authenticity cards & purchase receipts...



It is hard. I have mine scattered in different houses and am not entirely sure I received COA for older or smaller purchases although have only bought directly from VCA. It is my goal to round everything down and check against serial numbers etc. and get it organized in one place, maybe a big grey box from the website will work!

To set your mind at ease I have had a couple of pieces repaired and have never been asked for any paperwork. It does seem like they can also see your website purchases but I don’t know for sure.


----------



## fice16

BigAkoya said:


> I think if you can buy at a boutique in your home country, you will be fine as they will have your purchase history in the system.
> 
> The last time I was in NYC, I went to VCA.  The first thing I did was go upstairs to get my pieces cleaned.  There were no questions asked.  The cleaning person just took my pieces.  I think you will be fine.



Hi BigAkoya, yes I bought most of my VCA pieces from the VCA boutique.  However I do have a set of frivole pave pieces bought from NM.  So, I think I really need to keep the receipts & authenticity cards for the pieces bought from NM...


----------



## fice16

Safa said:


> It is hard. I have mine scattered in different houses and am not entirely sure I received COA for older or smaller purchases although have only bought directly from VCA. It is my goal to round everything down and check against serial numbers etc. and get it organized in one place, maybe a big grey box from the website will work!
> 
> To set your mind at ease I have had a couple of pieces repaired and have never been asked for any paperwork. It does seem like they can also see your website purchases but I don’t know for sure.



Thanks for sharing your experience about the repair of the VCA pieces.  I hope I will have such luck in the future as well... 
I guess I can try to follow your advice about organizing all the receipts/auth cards in one place (& yes, the big grey box from VCA website is a good storage piece).


----------



## Happyish

fice16 said:


> Hi BigAkoya, yes I bought most of my VCA pieces from the VCA boutique.  However I do have a set of frivole pave pieces bought from NM.  So, I think I really need to keep the receipts & authenticity cards for the pieces bought from NM...


You should keep the receipts and COA's for everything--not just what you bought from NM. I have all mine in one dedicated box with each item labeled, because gosh--they all look alike and who wants to open envelopes ad nauseam?
I was glad I did--several months ago I brought a pair of earrings to VCA for repair. They wouldn't touch them without documentation. Fortunately I found it, otherwise I would have had to pay $1800 for authentication before they would take them in for repair.
But what if there was a fire? It's probably best to take a photo of the piece, scan the COA and receipt, and even repair receipts if you have them and place everything in a folder on your computer. That way it's all together in one place.


----------



## DeryaHm

fice16 said:


> Hi BigAkoya, yes I bought most of my VCA pieces from the VCA boutique.  However I do have a set of frivole pave pieces bought from NM.  So, I think I really need to keep the receipts & authenticity cards for the pieces bought from NM...



I had to get a duplicate receipt for a big Tiffany piece for insurance after a total disaster got the original paperwork/packaging wet, piece was fine. It took a while but they were able to provide. Maybe you can do a similar request through NM just for your peace of mind. If I’m missing any in my audit I’ll do the same from vCA. If they can’t provide insurance must have a copy from when I first purchased and will check w them


----------



## Happyish

Safa said:


> I had to get a duplicate receipt for a big Tiffany piece for insurance after a total disaster got the original paperwork/packaging wet, piece was fine. It took a while but they were able to provide. Maybe you can do a similar request through NM just for your peace of mind


VCA said they will not replace paperwork. However, after weeks of calls, I was able to obtain a duplicate copy of the receipt from my very first VCA Boutique purchase. 
Also, VCA is not linked with NM or other merchants selling VCA, so they have no way to look up the piece and verify it came from an authorized vendor. That's why the paperwork is so important.


----------



## DeryaHm

Happyish said:


> VCA said they will not replace paperwork. However, after weeks of calls, I was able to obtain a duplicate copy of the receipt from my very first VCA Boutique purchase.
> Also, VCA is not linked with NM or other merchants selling VCA, so they have no way to look up the piece and verify it came from an authorized vendor. That's up why the paperwork is so important.



Thank you, very helpful. I’ve only bought from VCA directly, either my home boutique or their website so I didn’t know


----------



## DS2006

Happyish said:


> You should keep the receipts and COA's for everything--not just what you bought from NM. I have all mine in one dedicated box with each item labeled, because gosh--they all look alike and who wants to open envelopes ad nauseam?
> I was glad I did--several months ago I brought a pair of earrings to VCA for repair. They wouldn't touch them without documentation. Fortunately I found it, otherwise I would have had to pay $1800 for authentication before they would take them in for repair.
> But what if there was a fire? It's probably best to take a photo of the piece, scan the COA and receipt, and even repair receipts if you have them and place everything in a folder on your computer. That way it's all together in one place.


I totally agree!  I cannot imagine not keeping receipts and COAs. It's not any trouble. I keep mine in a file folder (and they are labelled!), but I definitely plan on scanning them to save on the computer as you suggested!  I don't plan on ever selling anything, but having the original COA is essential if one does, in my opinion.


----------



## fice16

@ BigAkoya, Happyish, Safa, DS2006,

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences & recommendations.
I think I will find time to organize the original receipts and authenticity cards of my jewelry pieces; and make scanned copies & store inside my computer.  For some important info, I also email myself a copy, so it will be present in my email inbox.
Also, from Happyish's post, I see that I can still have VCA to do service/repair of my pieces in case the CoA/receipt is not present...it will require additional cost for authentication, but at least, the VCA repair/service is still possible...

Truly appreciate all you kind ladies' valuable sharing.


----------



## mocktail

Happyish said:


> But what if there was a fire? It's probably best to take a photo of the piece, scan the COA and receipt, and even repair receipts if you have them and place everything in a folder on your computer. That way it's all together in one place.



Don't just save it to your computer, as a computer could also be damaged by fire or water, or stolen. Best to save digital scans of these receipts and certs in the cloud so you're able to access them even if your computer is no longer working/able to be accessed.


----------



## BigAkoya

Happyish said:


> VCA said they will not replace paperwork. However, after weeks of calls, I was able to obtain a duplicate copy of the receipt from my very first VCA Boutique purchase.
> Also, VCA is not linked with NM or other merchants selling VCA, so they have no way to look up the piece and verify it came from an authorized vendor. That's why the paperwork is so important.


Yes, and this is also why I only buy from a boutique in the US.  When I purchase from the boutique, I don't worry as my purchases are in their system.  Buying VCA from NM is not the same as you know.  NM purchases are not linked to VCA boutiques.  Plus, one day, all VCA at NM will shut down.  You can see the writing on the wall as luxury brands go direct to consumer and move away from the terms/rules they must follow for department stores.  I also prefer to be loyal to the boutiques for offers on new pieces, special attention to service needs, etc.

I also only buy in the U.S. which is where I live.  When I travel overseas, I will look at jewelry pieces, but I will always purchase it in the US, even if it's a better deal overseas.  This is not just for VCA, but for all luxury jewelry brands that are also sold in the US (not every brand is available in the US).  I do not find "special allure" buying something just because it came from the a Paris flagship store; that does not make a difference to me.

For me, buying in the US avoids any headache for service/repairs.  The aftercare is much more important to me, even over saving a few dollars.

Bags/shoes/clothing are different, and I do buy those anywhere (VAT does save a lot in these categories).


----------



## DeryaHm

mocktail said:


> Don't just save it to your computer, as a computer could also be damaged by fire or water, or stolen. Best to save digital scans of these receipts and certs in the cloud so you're able to access them even if your computer is no longer working/able to be accessed.



I have a spreadsheet with detailed descriptions and photos of receipts and COAs or appraisals where applicable for pieces above the $$ level where my insurance requires documentation. It's the small pieces whose COAs I tend to just toss away somewhere and not keep track of since these don't need to be submitted and in some cases may not be worth insuring. Probably they wouldn't bother about checking documentation for something so small if I took it for repair since they know my purchase history generally. But now I'm curious if anyone knows if the US boutiques can also see your US online purchase history since a few pieces that fall into the too small for insurance documentation but are things that could potentially need repair are things I have purchased there. I don't think now I would have any issues if I couldn't find it, but in the future if I slow purchasing or my SA leaves or both it could be an issue


----------



## fice16

Safa said:


> I have a spreadsheet with detailed descriptions and photos of receipts and COAs or appraisals where applicable for pieces above the $$ level where my insurance requires documentation. It's the small pieces whose COAs I tend to just toss away somewhere and not keep track of since these don't need to be submitted and in some cases may not be worth insuring. Probably they wouldn't bother about checking documentation for something so small if I took it for repair since they know my purchase history generally. But now I'm curious if anyone knows if the US boutiques can also see your US online purchase history since a few pieces that fall into the too small for insurance documentation but are things that could potentially need repair are things I have purchased there. I don't think now I would have any issues if I couldn't find it, but in the future if I slow purchasing or my SA leaves or both it could be an issue



I am not sure if US boutique can see your online purchase or not.  But I have a watch purchased from VCA online, and was able to contact VCA online rep (contact by phone) and arranged for battery replacement twice.  I think you will have no issue in accessing repair/service via online customer service, as they can see your purchase records if you provide them your email and contact info.  The only thing is whether there maybe shipping fee involved in the process.  My most recent experience was that VCA may want customer to be responsible for shipping in the item; however mine was waived as I explained to them they provided me the shipping label the first time and the online rep who had helped me with the purchase did contact me and send me the prepaid shipping label. I was quite lucky in both requests I think.


----------



## vivii

Some of you guys were saying here VCA charges a fee for authenticating your piece??? I didn't know this... does anyone know how much is the authentication fee?


----------



## DS2006

vivii said:


> Some of you guys were saying here VCA charges a fee for authenticating your piece??? I didn't know this... does anyone know how much is the authentication fee?



$1800


----------



## vivii

DS2006 said:


> $1800



This 1800 cost was in regards to what piece? I want to get my vintage Alhambra 5 motif bracelet authenticated as well. 1800 seems a lot, I could just buy something new with that..


----------



## DS2006

vivii said:


> This 1800 cost was in regards to what piece? I want to get my vintage Alhambra 5 motif bracelet authenticated as well. 1800 seems a lot, I could just buy something new with that..


 
For any piece as far as I know. It’s very risky to buy second hand and usually not worth it for any lower priced item without COA and receipt. If you send in an item to have the chain shortened or something, they may or may not accept it without a COA or receipt. If they do and then work on it, you can have some assurance that it’s authentic. But most of the time they will ask to see paperwork. There are so many super fakes out there.


----------



## etoupebirkin

Personally, I would not buy any VCA in the reseller market that is manufactured today without the COA, receipts, box, pouch etc. I would be careful that the vendor has a favorable return policy. I would also break out my jeweler’s loupe and examine the piece side by side with my existing VCA.

The only piece in my collection that I am unsure of the provenance is my WG Magic Turquoise charm. It’s no longer in produnction and is very rare. It’s too inexpensive to warrant the $1800 authentication. It looks good to me, and I hope for the best.


----------



## pinky7129

etoupebirkin said:


> Personally, I would not buy any VCA in the reseller market that is manufactured today without the COA, receipts, box, pouch etc. I would be careful that the vendor has a favorable return policy. I would also break out my jeweler’s loupe and examine the piece side by side with my existing VCA.
> 
> The only piece in my collection that I am unsure of the provenance is my WG Magic Turquoise charm. It’s no longer in produnction and is very rare. It’s too inexpensive to warrant the $1800 authentication. It looks good to me, and I hope for the best.


You can always go and get it steamed/cleaned! If they take it you’re good


----------



## vivii

DS2006 said:


> For any piece as far as I know. It’s very risky to buy second hand and usually not worth it for any lower priced item without COA and receipt. If you send in an item to have the chain shortened or something, they may or may not accept it without a COA or receipt. If they do and then work on it, you can have some assurance that it’s authentic. But most of the time they will ask to see paperwork. There are so many super fakes out there.




Thanks I see!


----------



## Happyish

Ylesiya said:


> I would not trust or make ANY conclusions out of "hinting SAs" for a number of reasons:
> 
> - They need you to come and buy from the store, not from outside
> - No one in their own mind wants to take responsibility for your purchases outside the store
> - I will repeat again that they are not trained to authenticate the jewellery even physically in the store, leave alone based on the online images!
> - Most importantly, for them it is a compliance breach to give you this sort of advice.
> 
> There are PLENTY of wonderful, totally authentic and beautiful pre owned pieces available online. I feel bad for some sellers who got accused for selling a fake only because buyers don't know what they are buying.
> 
> I sold once a Sweet carnelian bracelet originally bought in Paris at Place Vendome (sigh!), with boxes and cert but the buyer freaked out because the clasp was old style (that bigger, rectangular, fatter clasp which VCA replaced later with the current teardrop lobster clasp). Plenty of accusations of selling a fake - it took me quite some time to explain that this item was authentic. In fact, fakes don't come with this type of clasp these days, so in general this is a pretty good indication that item is genuine.
> 
> I saw people freaking out seeing old settings in vintage alhambra pieces and getting hysterical - for example some bought old turquoise pendants and realised the beads look different compared to the modern settings, and then demanding returns, accusing of selling fakes etc... It's very painful.


Van Cleef has been manufactured for many years. The Alhambra collection was introduced in 1968, as part of the Boutique collection that was  created in 1954. The Boutique collection was a lower priced line designed to make VCA more accessible to young women. The problem is, the SA's and many so-called experts have little depth of knowledge.

They know how Alhambra or Fleurette or something else that is manufactured _now_. But there are also many designs or stone combinations, such as the Alhambra in chryosphase or ivory, etc. or nerval in chrysophase they've never seen.
I've had multiple items of jewelry-all authentic VCA, dismissed as fake, when in fact they're authentic.

For example, I was wearing my lion brooches when I went into the boutique (they're part of the original boutique line, Princess Grace owned one, and may I add, the lion brooch is on the back cover of one of the VCA books), only to be asked by one of the SAs, _who made them_! Sheesh! If is was selling expensive jewelry certainly I'd want to educate myself on the line--not just on what's in the case. As another example, a different SA told me that my Coral Rose de Noel brooch was a likely fake because you could see some glue on the back (where the pin stems were attached) and "VCA doesn't make things that way." It went through the full authentication process and was verified as authentic. I even have the date it was made.

There have been many variations in manufacturing methods over the years. For example, the stones in the vintage Alhambra were originally prong set, now they're bezel set.  Aside from the settings, the clasps, signatures and method of signature (hand inscribed vs. laser) have all changed over time. As @Ylesiya notes, does this mean they're fake? No. What it means is that you, as a consumer, should familiarize yourself with the brand, as the SAs have little depth of knowledge.


----------



## Happyish

Safa said:


> I have a spreadsheet with detailed descriptions and photos of receipts and COAs or appraisals where applicable for pieces above the $$ level where my insurance requires documentation. It's the small pieces whose COAs I tend to just toss away somewhere and not keep track of since these don't need to be submitted and in some cases may not be worth insuring. Probably they wouldn't bother about checking documentation for something so small if I took it for repair since they know my purchase history generally. But now I'm curious if anyone knows if the US boutiques can also see your US online purchase history since a few pieces that fall into the too small for insurance documentation but are things that could potentially need repair are things I have purchased there. I don't think now I would have any issues if I couldn't find it, but in the future if I slow purchasing or my SA leaves or both it could be an issue


I have been told by Concierge that they can see my in-store purchases. Likewise, the store can see my on-line purchases. However, this is only with the US boutiques. I don't know about any other VCA boutiques. Also, they're not linked to Neiman's or other outlets that sell VCA.


----------



## Happyish

vivii said:


> This 1800 cost was in regards to what piece? I want to get my vintage Alhambra 5 motif bracelet authenticated as well. 1800 seems a lot, I could just buy something new with that..


Any piece. And yes, that's exactly what they're counting on.


----------



## tenshix

Happyish said:


> I have been told by Concierge that they can see my in-store purchases. Likewise, the store can see my on-line purchases. However, this is only with the US boutiques. I don't know about any other VCA boutiques. Also, they're not linked to Neiman's or other outlets that sell VCA.



US VCA isn’t able to see my other worldwide purchases so it was a bit frustrating to have to “rebuild” a profile when I moved back here. But in Asia they were able to see my purchases from Australia, Japan, and Singapore I believe. I didn’t need to make a new profile after my first purchase in Australia. However my SA in the US has been very accommodating and only asked to see the COA on my older bracelet where the serial number stamp had worn off from wear and tear when I requested an adjustment. For my other pieces he did not request it even though I purchased them overseas. I think it’s kind of at the discretion of the SA how strict they want to be.


----------



## BigAkoya

Happyish said:


> I have been told by Concierge that they can see my in-store purchases. Likewise, the store can see my on-line purchases. However, this is only with the US boutiques. I don't know about any other VCA boutiques. Also, they're not linked to Neiman's or other outlets that sell VCA.


I wonder if you take one of your pieces you purchased at NM and get it serviced at a boutique if they would add that piece to your VCA  profile.  If yes, that would be the way to go.  That way, once VCA in NM shuts down and you start going to the boutiques, they will have all your pieces recorded and you won't have to deal with COAs or any paperwork.  That would be good if they did that.


----------



## Ylesiya

Happyish said:


> Van Cleef has been manufactured for many years. The Alhambra collection was introduced in 1968, as part of the Boutique collection that was  created in 1954. The Boutique collection was a lower priced line designed to make VCA more accessible to young women. The problem is, the SA's and many so-called experts have little depth of knowledge.
> 
> They know how Alhambra or Fleurette or something else that is manufactured _now_. But there are also many designs or stone combinations, such as the Alhambra in chryosphase or ivory, etc. or nerval in chrysophase they've never seen.
> I've had multiple items of jewelry-all authentic VCA, dismissed as fake, when in fact they're authentic.
> 
> For example, I was wearing my lion brooches when I went into the boutique (they're part of the original boutique line, Princess Grace owned one, and may I add, the lion brooch is on the back cover of one of the VCA books), only to be asked by one of the SAs, _who made them_! Sheesh! If is was selling expensive jewelry certainly I'd want to educate myself on the line--not just on what's in the case. As another example, a different SA told me that my Coral Rose de Noel brooch was a likely fake because you could see some glue on the back (where the pin stems were attached) and "VCA doesn't make things that way." It went through the full authentication process and was verified as authentic. I even have the date it was made.
> 
> There have been many variations in manufacturing methods over the years. For example, the stones in the vintage Alhambra were originally prong set, now they're bezel set.  Aside from the settings, the clasps, signatures and method of signature (hand inscribed vs. laser) have all changed over time. As @Ylesiya notes, does this mean they're fake? No. What it means is that you, as a consumer, should familiarize yourself with the brand, as the SAs have little depth of knowledge.



Thanks for this post @Happyish !
Some of my personal experiences as well: I recently became a happy owner of the turquoise magic pendant in WG which I posted in a few threads here. My SA saw this model for the first time IRL when I brought it in for servicing. Other SAs have never seen anything like that. 
When I came into another store, other SAs were asking what sort of pendant was that. Not only they have never seen it before, they also did not know this model existed! And I must say that this is not some sort of peculiar collection or a very vintage item.

Same went along with my Romance a Paris necklace - some of the SAs did not even know that this line existed and it actually was produced not such a long time ago! Yes, it was limited and not super popular but it was definitely selling at the local stores.
I know this is a VCA thread but I had quite a bit of a similar experience with Tiffany's where they have been changing details of the designs over the years and modern item of the same collection may look quite different to the item produced 15 years ago. This is the case for my beloved Schlumberger 16 stone collection: modern rings lost a lot of weight and slimmed down compared to their vintage siblings. So if one were to put two rings side by side like I did once, that person would have seen a lot of difference and probably would have started screaming "FAKEEE!!!!" at my ring while actually this vintage piece is my most beloved, authentic, heavy, solid and exceptionally well made darling.

I personally have been refused to clean vintage silver cufflinks at Tiffany's because no one at our local store could recognise them while I know for sure this pair is a beautiful authentic highly sought after vintage piece.

The point here is that it is actually quite rare to find someone among sales personnel who is interested in the brand history and evolution of the designs. In most of the cases they admit they learn from me


----------



## Happyish

Ylesiya said:


> Thanks for this post @Happyish !
> Some of my personal experiences as well: I recently became a happy owner of the turquoise magic pendant in WG which I posted in a few threads here. My SA saw this model for the first time IRL when I brought it in for servicing. Other SAs have never seen anything like that.
> When I came into another store, other SAs were asking what sort of pendant was that. Not only they have never seen it before, they also did not know this model existed! And I must say that this is not some sort of peculiar collection or a very vintage item.
> 
> Same went along with my Romance a Paris necklace - some of the SAs did not even know that this line existed and it actually was produced not such a long time ago! Yes, it was limited and not super popular but it was definitely selling at the local stores.
> I know this is a VCA thread but I had quite a bit of a similar experience with Tiffany's where they have been changing details of the designs over the years and modern item of the same collection may look quite different to the item produced 15 years ago. This is the case for my beloved Schlumberger 16 stone collection: modern rings lost a lot of weight and slimmed down compared to their vintage siblings. So if one were to put two rings side by side like I did once, that person would have seen a lot of difference and probably would have started screaming "FAKEEE!!!!" at my ring while actually this vintage piece is my most beloved, authentic, heavy, solid and exceptionally well made darling.
> 
> I personally have been refused to clean vintage silver cufflinks at Tiffany's because no one at our local store could recognise them while I know for sure this pair is a beautiful authentic highly sought after vintage piece.
> 
> The point here is that it is actually quite rare to find someone among sales personnel who is interested in the brand history and evolution of the designs. In most of the cases they admit they learn from me


Gosh, that's so sad. But I'm happy to hear that they're interested in learning.
What a shame that Tiffany has resorted to changing the Schlumberger designs. I would far prefer if the design and materials remained consistent (like VCA and Cartier) even if it meant higher prices, otherwise it just diminishes the value of the line. 
Glad to hear you have the "old stuff." It's really beautiful.


----------



## NANI1972

sjunky13 said:


> TY for starting this thread.
> I recently saw a yt video that showed a high quality fake right next to Authentic VCA The video creator showed all the differences under a loop . Not many people saw the differences and thought it a waste to pay for the real thing. To the naked eye many can pass with a quick glance . It is when you hold the item and look for details that the fake makes itself known. The detail and finish are way off.
> I guess many people don't care about the small details, quality and artistic integrity?
> 
> I have seen a lot of fake VCA on influencers on Insta and YT as well. I think a lot of people who buy fakes are still wearing originals.
> I have stories I could tell working in luxury cosmetics.


HI, Can you post a link to the video? Thanks


----------



## opensesame

I recently saw a pair of 2017 LE onyx rose gold alhambra earrings pop up on a reputable Japanese reseller website for 600k yen (120 yen=1 usd). I am 90+% certain it’s not real because I own the same pair from VCA boutique. It looks pretty different form mine unless VCA made the same design some other year...


----------



## opensesame

Happyish said:


> Van Cleef has been manufactured for many years. The Alhambra collection was introduced in 1968, as part of the Boutique collection that was  created in 1954. The Boutique collection was a lower priced line designed to make VCA more accessible to young women. The problem is, the SA's and many so-called experts have little depth of knowledge.
> 
> They know how Alhambra or Fleurette or something else that is manufactured _now_. But there are also many designs or stone combinations, such as the Alhambra in chryosphase or ivory, etc. or nerval in chrysophase they've never seen.
> I've had multiple items of jewelry-all authentic VCA, dismissed as fake, when in fact they're authentic.
> 
> For example, I was wearing my lion brooches when I went into the boutique (they're part of the original boutique line, Princess Grace owned one, and may I add, the lion brooch is on the back cover of one of the VCA books), only to be asked by one of the SAs, _who made them_! Sheesh! If is was selling expensive jewelry certainly I'd want to educate myself on the line--not just on what's in the case. As another example, a different SA told me that my Coral Rose de Noel brooch was a likely fake because you could see some glue on the back (where the pin stems were attached) and "VCA doesn't make things that way." It went through the full authentication process and was verified as authentic. I even have the date it was made.
> 
> There have been many variations in manufacturing methods over the years. For example, the stones in the vintage Alhambra were originally prong set, now they're bezel set.  Aside from the settings, the clasps, signatures and method of signature (hand inscribed vs. laser) have all changed over time. As @Ylesiya notes, does this mean they're fake? No. What it means is that you, as a consumer, should familiarize yourself with the brand, as the SAs have little depth of knowledge.



I can’t believe how rude and uninformed SAs can be. "VCA doesn't make things that way." Just wow.


----------



## Happyish

opensesame said:


> I can’t believe how rude and uninformed SAs can be. "VCA doesn't make things that way." Just wow.


Here's another wow.
A friend was told by her VCA boutique that her 20-motif turquoise Vintage Alhambra necklace, which she proudly wore that day, appeared to be a fake. She had bought it at a VCA boutique! 
Now, that's the ultimate in Chutzpah.


----------



## etoupebirkin

Happyish said:


> Here's another wow.
> A friend was told by her VCA boutique that her 20-motif turquoise Vintage Alhambra necklace, which she proudly wore that day, appeared to be a fake. She had bought it at a VCA boutique!
> Now, that's the ultimate in Chutzpah.


I would not say Chutzpah, per se. I would characterize it as complete ignorance of the brand, bordering on ineptness. It’s also extremely stupid to inform your client that a piece she is wearing is fake.

I would politely say to her, I bought it at “insert boutique location” and approximate date. Then, I would mention that the SA really needs to educate herself about the Alhambra line and how it has evolved over the years. Bet she would think Princess Grace’s Alhambra pieces were fake. SAs like this will float from brand to brand and wonder why they are not successful.

One of my favorite sayings is, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”


----------



## marbella8

Same thing happened to me at Hermes when I took a vintage back that was Ardennes to be spa’ed. The young girl who was new to after care, with attitude, told me she didn’t believe my bag was real, and that she’d never seen that leather. I told her I hadn’t ever seen her at the boutique and asked her how long she’d been there (I knew she was new), and asked for her boss, that’s been there for a long time. I told her my bag was Ardennes and one of their heritage leathers. She brought her boss, and then apologized for her ignorance. Honestly, silence is a virtue. Not every Hermes bag looks like the Togo Birkins everyone is caring these days. 

I have older VCA and newer. The beading, the clasps are all very different than today’s pieces.


----------



## sacha1009

To where I live, lots of women here wearing VCA bracelet imitation. They are absolutely real gold. Really amazing the way they copy it is almost perfect VCA. Not only that, there's more luxury jewelry they imitate like Cartier, chanel, LV, Bulgari and lots more.


----------



## cajhingle

FAKE but not fake (from an instagram post)


----------



## DaintyDiamonds

Last year I purchased a cheap replica on etsy to see how I liked how it looked on me before ordering the real deal online. Becasue of Covid I couldn't go to a boutique. I liked it so much I decided to stick with it for now as they are out of what I want.

My concern is if there are unsafe impurities in the replicas such as cadmium that isn't found in authentic pieces. Has anyone (not necessarily someone from TPF, but a jeweler somewhere) ever tested the metal on these replicas and then shared the results online?


----------



## fice16

DaintyDiamonds said:


> Last year I purchased a cheap replica on etsy to see how I liked how it looked on me before ordering the real deal online. Becasue of Covid I couldn't go to a boutique. I liked it so much I decided to stick with it for now as they are out of what I want.
> 
> My concern is if there are unsafe impurities in the replicas such as cadmium that isn't found in authentic pieces. Has anyone (not necessarily someone from TPF, but a jeweler somewhere) ever tested the metal on these replicas and then shared the results online?



I think with the many different VCA fakes made by different counterfeiters, you will have no way to know what your replica version is made of. 
Honestly, I would assume there is no quality control and the counterfeiters simply use the cheapest available materials to make the fakes.  So, as you have guessed, there could be indeed potential danger of wearing replicas for extended period of time.  And how do you know if these are real metals or plastic coated with metallic paints?


----------



## DaintyDiamonds

fice16 said:


> I think with the many different VCA fakes made by different counterfeiters, you will have no way to know what your replica version is made of.
> Honestly, I would assume there is no quality control and the counterfeiters simply use the cheapest available materials to make the fakes.  So, as you have guessed, there could be indeed potential danger of wearing replicas for extended period of time.  And how do you know if these are real metals or plastic coated with metallic paints?



That's my assumption and why I actually never wear it more than checking myself out in the mirror.   That was fine when I was staying in during the pandemic but now that I'm actually wanting to wear it out and for more than five minutes I'm going to get an authentic piece.


----------



## Junkenpo

On one of the local buy & sell FB pages I follow, I just saw someone post the weirdest fake magic pendant: it was onyx on one side and guilloche on the other, supposedly 18k.  She also had listed some fake bulgari, chanel, and cartier jewelry. They were all pretty bad fakes.  Like, worse than what you find on etsy and aliexpress. I can't imagine being the kind of person to spend a few hundred dollars for terrible looking fakes when there are so many cute non-brand 18k sellers out there.


----------



## opensesame

cajhingle said:


> FAKE but not fake (from an instagram post)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5373277



I think I saw a youtuber do a comparison. Under the scope, the details were pretty apparent. The fake (18k gold) one was rough around the edges.


----------



## opensesame

opensesame said:


> I recently saw a pair of 2017 LE onyx rose gold alhambra earrings pop up on a reputable Japanese reseller website for 600k yen (120 yen=1 usd). I am 90+% certain it’s not real because I own the same pair from VCA boutique. It looks pretty different form mine unless VCA made the same design some other year...



Ok so I think this piece was actually authentic. It was set in yellow gold and I assume it was vintage or custom order. I looked at the detail and they provided authentication by VCA. It is now sold.


----------



## sparkle7

Can you guys advise me on what to do in this case?  I recently purchased a VCA  gold and pearl alahambra set from a seller online. It came with certificates stating it was purchased at VCA inside  NM in Hawaii. The pieces looked authentic and seller seemed genuine. I went to VCA boutique to get bracelet adjusted as it was too long. They looked in their database and couldn't find serial numbers in their system.  They didn't say it was not authentic but said it was strange not to be in their system even if it was purchased at VCA boutique 
inside Neiman's. They asked if I can get the invoice from the original owner. The manager then took a picture of COA as she was completely baffled. I contacted the seller and asked if she can provide with invoice or receipt so I can get bracelet adjusted. I also went to my local NM and said they would need a receipt to mail in order to process and work. 
When I explained to her that both places rejected  adjusting the bracelet,  she replied that it was rude of them to do so. She then told me to just return the items back to her. 
I noticed that she sold a 10 motif VCA necklace and buyer left feedback that they were happy with purchase.
The items look authentic and if it's a fake it's a very very good one. Even the salesman at VCA seemed surprised. 
Is it worth it to contact the VCa boutique inside NM to confirm?


----------



## EpiFanatic

sparkle7 said:


> Can you guys advise me on what to do in this case?  I recently purchased a VCA  gold and pearl alahambra set from a seller online. It came with certificates stating it was purchased at VCA inside  NM in Hawaii. The pieces looked authentic and seller seemed genuine. I went to VCA boutique to get bracelet adjusted as it was too long. They looked in their database and couldn't find serial numbers in their system.  They didn't say it was not authentic but said it was strange not to be in their system even if it was purchased at VCA boutique
> inside Neiman's. They asked if I can get the invoice from the original owner. The manager then took a picture of COA as she was completely baffled. I contacted the seller and asked if she can provide with invoice or receipt so I can get bracelet adjusted. I also went to my local NM and said they would need a receipt to mail in order to process and work.
> When I explained to her that both places rejected  adjusting the bracelet,  she replied that it was rude of them to do so. She then told me to just return the items back to her.
> I noticed that she sold a 10 motif VCA necklace and buyer left feedback that they were happy with purchase.
> The items look authentic and if it's a fake it's a very very good one. Even the salesman at VCA seemed surprised.
> Is it worth it to contact the VCa boutique inside NM to confirm?


I have purchased a number of pieces from NM before I had access to a standalone VCA boutique. And I know that VCA does not track pieces sold by NM. I have never had a problem having VCA with work on my NM pieces but I have a long standing relationship with my VCA SA. 

I would try to have NM just verify that the pieces were sold by them if you can. To me it’s worth the effort. 

Or maybe you ask the seller to send you a copy of the receipt with her personal information redacted.  That may be helpful to take to VCA and maybe with that they would perform the repairs or maintenance. 

And honestly any VCA stand-alone boutique should know that VCA does not track pieces sold by NM.


----------



## BigAkoya

sparkle7 said:


> Can you guys advise me on what to do in this case?  I recently purchased a VCA  gold and pearl alahambra set from a seller online. It came with certificates stating it was purchased at VCA inside  NM in Hawaii. The pieces looked authentic and seller seemed genuine. I went to VCA boutique to get bracelet adjusted as it was too long. They looked in their database and couldn't find serial numbers in their system.  They didn't say it was not authentic but said it was strange not to be in their system even if it was purchased at VCA boutique
> inside Neiman's. They asked if I can get the invoice from the original owner. The manager then took a picture of COA as she was completely baffled. I contacted the seller and asked if she can provide with invoice or receipt so I can get bracelet adjusted. I also went to my local NM and said they would need a receipt to mail in order to process and work.
> When I explained to her that both places rejected  adjusting the bracelet,  she replied that it was rude of them to do so. She then told me to just return the items back to her.
> I noticed that she sold a 10 motif VCA necklace and buyer left feedback that they were happy with purchase.
> The items look authentic and if it's a fake it's a very very good one. Even the salesman at VCA seemed surprised.
> Is it worth it to contact the VCa boutique inside NM to confirm?


I would return it.  The problem is not if the pieces are real or fake.  The problem is that the VCA boutique does not recognize it in their system, and therefore, they will not service it.  You will always have this problem unless you pay $1800 per piece to get it authenticated by VCA.  

NM is not part of the VCA boutiques.  They are independent in the eyes of VCA, so purchases made at NM will not be in the VCA system. Getting a receipt from NM is just paper, and paper can be faked.  VCAs inside NM will all eventually close as they have been doing as VCA wants to take everything back in house.  

For me, real or fake. I would return the set specifically because VCA said they will not service it.  It's not worth the headache, and for me, I would buy a new set at a boutique so if I ever need service, I can just walk in (old SA or new SA) and they can just look me up.  Easy!  SAs and come and go too, so you cannot rely on the kindness of one SA who will "help out."  It needs to be by the book. 

Also, the YG MOP pieces you purchased are not rare; they are readily available which is another reason why I would buy brand new at the boutique.   

The seller said you could return (she did not offer to even take a photo of the receipt which is odd actually), so I would jump on it and return it.  No doubt in my mind. 

That's just two cents.  Hope this helps and good luck to you.


----------



## BigAkoya

EpiFanatic said:


> I have purchased a number of pieces from NM before I had access to a standalone VCA boutique. And I know that VCA does not track pieces sold by NM. I have never had a problem having VCA with work on my NM pieces but I have a long standing relationship with my VCA SA.
> 
> I would try to have NM just verify that the pieces were sold by them if you can. To me it’s worth the effort.
> 
> Or maybe you ask the seller to send you a copy of the receipt with her personal information redacted.  That may be helpful to take to VCA and maybe with that they would perform the repairs or maintenance.
> 
> And honestly any VCA stand-alone boutique should know that VCA does not track pieces sold by NM.


I wonder with VCA in NMs shutting down if this is part of a new VCA strategy.
Which means... I wonder since you have so many pieces from VCA NM, if it's time to "register" your pieces at the VCA boutique so your pieces are in the system.  Just as a precaution given this is the second time this problem has been posted in the past two days leading me to believe there is some policy change (the other TPFer purchased a used pendant which VCA rejected).

Just a thought.  No need to go through the hassle of having to pay $1800 per piece in the future if you can somehow "register" your pieces with VCA now.


----------



## EpiFanatic

BigAkoya said:


> I wonder with VCA in NMs shutting down if this is part of a new VCA strategy.
> Which means... I wonder since you have so many pieces from VCA NM, if it's time to "register" your pieces at the VCA boutique so your pieces are in the system.  Just as a precaution given this is the second time this problem has been posted in two days leading me to believe there is some policy change.
> 
> Just a thought.  No need to go through the hassle of having to pay $1800 per piece in the future if you can somehow "register" your pieces with VCA now.



I understand what you’re saying. I’m not too worried about it tbh.  I bought my pieces from NM in good faith that VCA will stand behind their pieces. Per various SAs, If I ever needed to get the piece serviced and there is any question about the authenticity I would just need to show my receipt. (I’ve had them serviced without receipt as well.). It’s not my problem that their corporate structure only allowed them to sell through NM at that time.  I trust VCA will continue to provide excellent service within reasonable parameters.


----------



## sparkle7

Thank you for your advice.  I will try to 
contact NM and inquire about the pieces.  My concern is that the seller didn't even attempt to  send proof that she purchased at NM with info crossed out. She was nonchalant about it.  Like I said the pieces look authentic. If NM not able to help, I'll return for a piece of mind


----------



## WingNut

sparkle7 said:


> Can you guys advise me on what to do in this case?  I recently purchased a VCA  gold and pearl alahambra set from a seller online. It came with certificates stating it was purchased at VCA inside  NM in Hawaii. The pieces looked authentic and seller seemed genuine. I went to VCA boutique to get bracelet adjusted as it was too long. They looked in their database and couldn't find serial numbers in their system.  They didn't say it was not authentic but said it was strange not to be in their system even if it was purchased at VCA boutique
> inside Neiman's. They asked if I can get the invoice from the original owner. The manager then took a picture of COA as she was completely baffled. I contacted the seller and asked if she can provide with invoice or receipt so I can get bracelet adjusted. I also went to my local NM and said they would need a receipt to mail in order to process and work.
> When I explained to her that both places rejected  adjusting the bracelet,  she replied that it was rude of them to do so. She then told me to just return the items back to her.
> I noticed that she sold a 10 motif VCA necklace and buyer left feedback that they were happy with purchase.
> The items look authentic and if it's a fake it's a very very good one. Even the salesman at VCA seemed surprised.
> Is it worth it to contact the VCa boutique inside NM to confirm?


The VCA boutique at the NM in Ala Moana shopping center is where I purchased all of my pieces so far. Late last year, NM shut down the boutique as part of the NM store and are now leasing it out to VCA as a stand-alone. So it would be under NM records, not VCA.


----------



## BigAkoya

sparkle7 said:


> Thank you for your advice.  I will try to
> contact NM and inquire about the pieces.  My concern is that the seller didn't even attempt to  send proof that she purchased at NM with info crossed out. She was nonchalant about it.  Like I said the pieces look authentic. If NM not able to help, I'll return for a piece of mind


That surprises me too.  I wonder if she was really the original owner or maybe she is a reseller. 
If it were me, and I was selling to you... if you asked me for a receipt, I would gladly send you a photo (my personal info crossed off), and if you needed me to call NM to verify for you, I would do it. 

Her response saying "just send it back" is odd to me, especially without any explanation of the receipt.


----------



## nicole0612

sparkle7 said:


> Can you guys advise me on what to do in this case?  I recently purchased a VCA  gold and pearl alahambra set from a seller online. It came with certificates stating it was purchased at VCA inside  NM in Hawaii. The pieces looked authentic and seller seemed genuine. I went to VCA boutique to get bracelet adjusted as it was too long. They looked in their database and couldn't find serial numbers in their system.  They didn't say it was not authentic but said it was strange not to be in their system even if it was purchased at VCA boutique
> inside Neiman's. They asked if I can get the invoice from the original owner. The manager then took a picture of COA as she was completely baffled. I contacted the seller and asked if she can provide with invoice or receipt so I can get bracelet adjusted. I also went to my local NM and said they would need a receipt to mail in order to process and work.
> When I explained to her that both places rejected  adjusting the bracelet,  she replied that it was rude of them to do so. She then told me to just return the items back to her.
> I noticed that she sold a 10 motif VCA necklace and buyer left feedback that they were happy with purchase.
> The items look authentic and if it's a fake it's a very very good one. Even the salesman at VCA seemed surprised.
> Is it worth it to contact the VCa boutique inside NM to confirm?


I agree with @EpiFanatic. Honestly, the easiest thing to do which will also provide you with assurance about authenticity is to bring it back to the Neiman Marcus and ask them to send it to the VCA workshop for the adjustment you want. Neimans is much easier to work with and they will take care of the item for you since it was purchased through them, you do not have to be the original owner.


----------



## A bottle of Red

I hope vca bought at stand alone (like short hills) can be serviced via vca. I have receipts obviously but wouldn't want a future hassle


----------



## sacha1009

nicole0612 said:


> I agree with @EpiFanatic. Honestly, the easiest thing to do which will also provide you with assurance about authenticity is to bring it back to the Neiman Marcus and ask them to send it to the VCA workshop for the adjustment you want. Neimans is much easier to work with and they will take care of the item for you since it was purchased through them, you do not have to be the original owner.


@nicole0612 I like that statement. Planning to go to Hawaii next week and planning to adjust my necklace which is i bought from online too. So hopefully when I am there in NM, I don't have any problem with them to adjust my necklace and bracelet.


----------



## sparkle7

WingNut said:


> The VCA boutique at the NM in Ala Moana shopping center is where I purchased all of my pieces so far. Late last year, NM shut down the boutique as part of the NM store and are now leasing it out to VCA as a stand-alone. So it would be under NM records, not VCA.


Thank you.  It says it was purchased in 2019 . I will contact NM and see if they will help


----------



## sparkle7

BigAkoya said:


> That surprises me too.  I wonder if she was really the original owner or maybe she is a reseller.
> If it were me, and I was selling to you... if you asked me for a receipt, I would gladly send you a photo (my personal info crossed off), and if you needed me to call NM to verify for you, I would do it.
> 
> Her response saying "just send it back" is odd to me, especially without any explanation of the receipt.


I thought her response was weird as well.  She doesn't appear to be a reseller, just selling few items but who knows


----------



## EpiFanatic

BigAkoya said:


> That surprises me too.  I wonder if she was really the original owner or maybe she is a reseller.
> If it were me, and I was selling to you... if you asked me for a receipt, I would gladly send you a photo (my personal info crossed off), and if you needed me to call NM to verify for you, I would do it.
> 
> Her response saying "just send it back" is odd to me, especially without any explanation of the receipt.


Yes. I would do that too @BigAkoya. I would provide the original receipt if needed on behalf of the buyer. And I provided the card of my SA as well.


----------



## EpiFanatic

nicole0612 said:


> I agree with @EpiFanatic. Honestly, the easiest thing to do which will also provide you with assurance about authenticity is to bring it back to the Neiman Marcus and ask them to send it to the VCA workshop for the adjustment you want. Neimans is much easier to work with and they will take care of the item for you since it was purchased through them, you do not have to be the original owner.


I agree @nicole0612. I think the potential issue is if the closest NM closes. That happened with my city so I would need to go to the newly opened VCA boutique. I haven’t asked this new boutique yet but the NYC boutique has serviced my NM pieces without any issues.  I would say if you have purchased from a standalone boutique, ask this boutique to initiate the service on a piece from NM.  That’s just me.


----------



## Junkenpo

Hmm...   I got my bracelet new through Betteridge before VCA stopped letting other jewelers carry VCA.  I have COA for it, but also had it resized and probably don't have the receipts anymore.  I don't plan on selling it while I'm living, but for the relatives after...  I don't live near any boutiques, though.


----------



## nicole0612

EpiFanatic said:


> I agree @nicole0612. I think the potential issue is if the closest NM closes. That happened with my city so I would need to go to the newly opened VCA boutique. I haven’t asked this new boutique yet but the NYC boutique has serviced my NM pieces without any issues.  I would say if you have purchased from a standalone boutique, ask this boutique to initiate the service on a piece from NM.  That’s just me.


I agree. I think it’s a good idea for OP to go in sooner rather than later, since all of the Neiman Marcus locations will likely close eventually. I have not had an issue with sending items for repair through Neiman Marcus even once the VCA has closed, but this is for a location where my sales associate is still working in the fine jewelry department there.


----------



## louise_elouise

Interesting, does anyone know if purchases from Harrods or selfridges would be in the VCA system?


----------



## EpiFanatic

nicole0612 said:


> I agree. I think it’s a good idea for OP to go in sooner rather than later, since all of the Neiman Marcus locations will likely close eventually. I have not had an issue with sending items for repair through Neiman Marcus even once the VCA has closed, but this is for a location where my sales associate is still working in the fine jewelry department there.


Wow. NM still helped you initiate a service even without the VCA boutique there?  That is great!!!!!  Kudos to NM and VCA for maintaining that connection to service their mutual clientele. Bravo.


----------



## sparkle7

I'm  going to call a VCA inside a NM boutique and find out if it is in their system. I'll let you guys know what they say. Thank you for your advice


----------



## BigAkoya

EpiFanatic said:


> I agree @nicole0612. I think the potential issue is if the closest NM closes. That happened with my city so I would need to go to the newly opened VCA boutique. I haven’t asked this new boutique yet but the NYC boutique has serviced my NM pieces without any issues.  I would say if you have purchased from a standalone boutique, ask this boutique to initiate the service on a piece from NM.  That’s just me.


Since you have purchased many pieces from NM and have the receipt, it would be interesting to know how your new VCA boutique plans to handle pieces that were purchased at NM, with and without a receipt.  I am sure they have a lot of clients who are in your same situation, and I would guess some have not kept their receipts.  

I hope they will just load your pieces/serial number in their system.  They can then just look up the piece anytime you ever need it serviced.  

I would think VCA will do that for all original owners.  Please keep us posted if you wouldn't mind.


----------



## BigAkoya

sparkle7 said:


> I'm  going to call a VCA inside a NM boutique and find out if it is in their system. I'll let you guys know what they say. Thank you for your advice


Oooh ooh ooh!  Yes, please keep us posted.  This is a fun mystery to solve!   Thank you!


----------



## nicole0612

EpiFanatic said:


> Wow. NM still helped you initiate a service even without the VCA boutique there?  That is great!!!!!  Kudos to NM and VCA for maintaining that connection to service their mutual clientele. Bravo.


Isn’t it wonderful? There were definitely perks for buying through Neiman Marcus, because the service is just so good (in my experience). This is no longer the case, but for a few months after the VCA closed, I could still have VCA items transferred in to that location to purchase through my sales associate. That was pretty great.


----------



## nicole0612

BigAkoya said:


> Since you have purchased many pieces from NM and have the receipt, it would be interesting to know how your new VCA boutique plans to handle pieces that were purchased at NM, with and without a receipt.  I am sure they have a lot of clients who are in your same situation, and I would guess some have not kept their receipts.
> 
> I hope they will just load your pieces/serial number in their system.  They can then just look up the piece anytime you ever need it serviced.
> 
> I would think VCA will do that for all original owners.  Please keep us posted if you wouldn't mind.


I have done this, it’s a bit of a rigmarole, for some pieces they just take them without question, but for other pieces they have me send in a photocopy the paperwork along with the item. One item I had adjusted twice, and my sales associate at the standalone boutique asked me to send a photocopy of the paperwork both times, so it does not seem like they registered it to my name. Of course, I did not ask them to do so, so that might be a good plan for the future.


----------



## All things chic

Everyone has the free will to buy whatever they want but to buy a counterfeit item is just not classy or respectful. I remember designing jewelry and doing my due diligence to research trademarks, patents and copyrights after my designs were created. To deliberately make money off of something that isn't your own is just a level of low that I can't respect. Either buy the real item or don't buy it at all. I'm grateful for this thread and information.


----------



## BigAkoya

nicole0612 said:


> I have done this, it’s a bit of a rigmarole, for some pieces they just take them without question, but for other pieces they have me send in a photocopy the paperwork along with the item. One item I had adjusted twice, and my sales associate at the standalone boutique asked me to send a photocopy of the paperwork both times, so it does not seem like they registered it to my name. Of course, I did not ask them to do so, so that might be a good plan for the future.


Thanks for sharing your experiences.  
Yes, that would be a pain to me to have to justify my piece every time.  I would think with you being such a good client, you could ask your boutique SA or boutique manager to load all your pieces in the VCA system.  I am sure they will do that for you.  
Maybe do it the next time you buy a new piece at the boutique; they surely cannot say no then.


----------



## nicole0612

BigAkoya said:


> Thanks for sharing your experiences.
> Yes, that would be a pain to me to have to justify my piece every time.  I would think with you being such a good client, you could ask your boutique SA or boutique manager to load all your pieces in the VCA system.  I am sure they will do that for you.
> Maybe do it the next time you buy a new piece at the boutique; they surely cannot say no then.


I’m sure they would, but I never thought to ask in the past. I am a pretty low-maintenance client. I don’t think I would have to wait for a new purchase, my SA is very helpful in general. My boutique is across the country, so everything is mailed back and forth for purchases and adjustments. I don’t really see myself shipping my whole collection to them just to put it in the system, but it makes sense to ask them to add any pieces that I send in the future for adjustments.


----------



## sparkle7

I spoke with a VCA salesperson inside of NM on the phone I gave her one serial number and she didn't find it. she asked me to text pictures of COA which I just did. I'm waiting to hear back from her


----------



## marbella8

Junkenpo said:


> Hmm...   I got my bracelet new through Betteridge before VCA stopped letting other jewelers carry VCA.  I have COA for it, but also had it resized and probably don't have the receipts anymore.  I don't plan on selling it while I'm living, but for the relatives after...  I don't live near any boutiques, though.



For adjustments, it goes to VCA, and it’ll be under your name for the service. I know this bc of a bracelet I had sized that I purchased at NM.


----------



## sparkle7

spoke with the  manager from VCA where it says item was purchased from on COA and it's not in their system.  I will be returning promptly and going to boutique to buy. This kinda surprised me as it looked authentic but probably a super fake. That is probably why she did not want to send me the receipt.


----------



## sparkle7

Thanks you guys. This forum is a wealth of information and I'd be lost without it


----------



## tenshix

sparkle7 said:


> spoke with the  manager from VCA where it says item was purchased from on COA and it's not in their system.  I will be returning promptly and going to boutique to buy. This kinda surprised me as it looked authentic but probably a super fake. That is probably why she did not want to send me the receipt.



Yikes. I’m so glad you have the option to return it. There’s too many super fakes out there and I know some of them copy even existing serial numbers to try and fool the system. It’s scary stuff. I prefer to buy from the boutique directly for peace of mind since I’m not an expert shopper.


----------



## Ylesiya

sparkle7 said:


> spoke with the  manager from VCA where it says item was purchased from on COA and it's not in their system.  I will be returning promptly and going to boutique to buy. This kinda surprised me as it looked authentic but probably a super fake. That is probably why she did not want to send me the receipt.



This is why also a lot of counterfeits in the USA market are "bought at NM". I've seen plenty of them on eBay. Perfect location as they are not easily traceable through VCA itself and the seller can always say the receipt was lost or it was a gift. I suppose the necklace buyer just didn't do anything with the item and just accepted the purchase or it was a hoax: a friend purchased from this seller, then cancelled but the feedback can still be left.

This is great they were willing to check the number in the system for you. These days counterfeits look very real and a MOP bracelet is one of the most commonly faked.
Bear in mind the SAs are not trained to authenticate and see difference unless it's a badly made fake.


----------



## sparkle7

Ylesiya said:


> This is why also a lot of counterfeits in the USA market are "bought at NM". I've seen plenty of them on eBay. Perfect location as they are not easily traceable through VCA itself and the seller can always say the receipt was lost or it was a gift. I suppose the necklace buyer just didn't do anything with the item and just accepted the purchase or it was a hoax: a friend purchased from this seller, then cancelled but the feedback can still be left.
> 
> This is great they were willing to checkthe number in the system for you. These days counterfeits look very real and a MOP bracelet is one of the most commonly faked.
> Bear in mind the SAs are not trained to authenticate and see difference unless it's a badly made fake.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm happy I checked as well. Her response was off. Three VCA boutiques could not find this serial number in their system. The seller who was responsive at first is not responding to my emails but she has approved the return request.
> This is the second super fake VCA I have purchased from ebay and had to return. I tried to leave feedback after I returned the item as seller had relisted it. I no longer had option to leave feedback once item had been returned.  Unfortunately it sold and someone else is getting a super fake


----------



## BigAkoya

sparkle7 said:


> spoke with the  manager from VCA where it says item was purchased from on COA and it's not in their system.  I will be returning promptly and going to boutique to buy. This kinda surprised me as it looked authentic but probably a super fake. That is probably why she did not want to send me the receipt.


Bummer, but I am not surprised given her non-chalant "send it back" response.  She'll just relist it.  
I am so glad you posted in this forum and did not get scammed.  This forum is fabulous; I love everyone's help here! 

I am excited for you and your new pieces from boutique.  Please feel free to share!  We love to see photos!


----------



## Junkenpo

marbella8 said:


> For adjustments, it goes to VCA, and it’ll be under your name for the service. I know this bc of a bracelet I had sized that I purchased at NM.



That is good to know, thank you!


----------



## sparkle7

BigAkoya said:


> Bummer, but I am not surprised given her non-chalant "send it back" response.  She'll just relist it.
> I am so glad you posted in this forum and did not get scammed.  This forum is fabulous; I love everyone's help here!
> 
> I am excited for you and your new pieces from boutique.  Please feel free to share!  We love to see photos!


I'm going to save up a little more to buy the whole set and will post when I do. Thank you guys


----------



## sjunky13

I purchased a ton of VCA @ NM like 10 years ago. 
I brought all items to VCA 57th in NYC and they have them now in the system. They of course will service, clean and work on all items!
I do not understand the issue at all. I did not have receipts. I don't know if this can be done over the phone.
If you have issues, find another person that will help.


----------



## 880

If you want real VCA alhambra especially, purchase only from NM (or authorized dealer) or the boutique. BC VCA has not succeeded in defending the intellectual property right to alhambra designs. (It never registered the rights upon inception).  So, there are copies out there that use the same materials and CAD computer designs.


----------



## sjunky13

I only purchase from the boutique. To buy preloved, I would have to really know the person and I would take it to VCA asap. 
I myself have sold off quite a few jewelry items and always offered a great deal to buyers. Now I just sell to fashionphile as it is less stress.   I think if you will have any concern , any hesitation, or any stress you should just go to a boutique. The stress of saving a few bucks is so not worth it at all.


----------



## marbella8

What’s “BC”?



880 said:


> If you want real VCA alhambra especially, purchase only from NM (or authorized dealer) or the boutique. BC VCA has not succeeded in defending the intellectual property right to alhambra designs. (It never registered the rights upon inception).  So, there are copies out there that use the same materials and CAD computer designs.


----------



## 880

marbella8 said:


> What’s “BC”?


Because  sorry autocorrect made it all caps


----------



## nicole0612

marbella8 said:


> What’s “BC”?


In this instance, I believe it is “because”.


----------



## marbella8

nicole0612 said:


> In this instance, I believe it is “because”.



Thanks, since it was capitalized, I kept thinking of all the words it could be, lol


----------



## nicole0612

marbella8 said:


> Thanks, since it was capitalized, I kept thinking of all the words it could be, lol


Good thing word puzzles keep the mind sharp!  I bet you came up with some interesting ideas while mulling it over


----------



## marbella8

880 said:


> Because  sorry autocorrect made it all caps



Hi! No need to be sorry, and I’m sorry I just saw your response now. I kept thinking if BC was a legal division of VCA, or was it an independent store years ago, but couldn’t think of what it was short for, lol.


----------



## sparkle7

I need some advice  again regarding the VCA set I purchased from an online seller. I  was  told by 3 VCA  that the COA the seller  provided with the items was not in any of their systems. At first I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt because she seemed genuine.  I originally went to my local VCA boutique and they were not able to find the serial code in their system.  After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system. 
They suggested I ask seller for receipt. 
I contacted the seller explaining what happened and asked her for receipt or proof of purchase with info crossed out. I wanted bracelet resized and they would not service unless COA was in the system or I had receipt.  The seller basically told me the stores 
were rude for denying me service. The second time I contacted her she replied that if I was unhappy with purchase send it back to her. I explained that it wasn't because I was unhappy I just wanted to make sure it was authentic and wanted to resize. She stopped responding after that. I opened request for return,  mailed it and she refunded right away.  I noticed that she relisted the item immediately after receiving.  I left her a negative feedback back and explained what I stated above. She now contacts me asking to revise my feedback. She said her husband had purchased from high end jewelry store that sells authentic preowned jewelry but  is  now out of business due to Covid. I was feeling kinda of bad because she was selling a few other things including baby clothes and designer shoes. I don't want her to lose buyers if this is her means of income but felt that she wasn't completely honest with me. I'm considering revising to neutral feedback.


----------



## BigAkoya

sparkle7 said:


> I need some advice  again regarding the VCA set I purchased from an online seller. I  was  told by 3 VCA  that the COA the seller  provided with the items was not in any of their systems. At first I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt because she seemed genuine.  I originally went to my local VCA boutique and they were not able to find the serial code in their system.  After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system.
> They suggested I ask seller for receipt.
> I contacted the seller explaining what happened and asked her for receipt or proof of purchase with info crossed out. I wanted bracelet resized and they would not service unless COA was in the system or I had receipt.  The seller basically told me the stores
> were rude for denying me service. The second time I contacted her she replied that if I was unhappy with purchase send it back to her. I explained that it wasn't because I was unhappy I just wanted to make sure it was authentic and wanted to resize. She stopped responding after that. I opened request for return,  mailed it and she refunded right away.  I noticed that she relisted the item immediately after receiving.  I left her a negative feedback back and explained what I stated above. She now contacts me asking to revise my feedback. She said her husband had purchased from high end jewelry store that sells authentic preowned jewelry but  is  now out of business due to Covid. I was feeling kinda of bad because she was selling a few other things including baby clothes and designer shoes. I don't want her to lose buyers if this is her means of income but felt that she wasn't completely honest with me. I'm considering revising to neutral feedback.


You should ignore her as she ignored you.  You have your refund.  Leave it at that.
She 100% lied to you about where she purchased it.  The store has no record of it.  She only wants you to update your feedback to sell this fake item to another person.

Ignore her and do not update your review.  You are not her charity case if she cannot run a honest business.  She lied to you.

ETA: Don't be a fool and let her play you again.


----------



## 880

sparkle7 said:


> felt that she wasn't completely honest with me. I'm considering revising to neutral feedback.



if you revise your feedback, the next unsuspecting prospective buyer may be scammed and not be so lucky as to get a refund. The COA she provided was fake.



BigAkoya said:


> You should ignore her as she ignored you. You have your refund. Leave it at that.
> She 100% lied to you about where she purchased it. The store has no record of it. She only wants you to update your feedback to sell this fake item to another person.
> 
> Ignore her and do not update your review. You are not her charity case if she cannot run a honest business. She lied to you.



I agree with @BigAkoya. Honest negative feedback, based on her wrongdoing,  is her problem, not yours. 

also, as per my post above, if you want legitimate VCA, especially alhambra, buy only from the boutique.  The use of CAD computer design makes the dupe or replica indistinguishable from the real thing.


----------



## sparkle7

BigAkoya said:


> You should ignore her as she ignored you.  You have your refund.  Leave it at that.
> She 100% lied to you about where she purchased it.  The store has no record of it.  She only wants you to update your feedback to sell this fake item to another person.
> 
> Ignore her and do not update your review.  You are not her charity case if she cannot run a honest business.  She lied to you.
> 
> ETA: Don't be a fool and let her play you again.


Thank you.  I was ambivalent but may as well leave it as it is


----------



## missie1

sparkle7 said:


> I need some advice  again regarding the VCA set I purchased from an online seller. I  was  told by 3 VCA  that the COA the seller  provided with the items was not in any of their systems. At first I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt because she seemed genuine.  I originally went to my local VCA boutique and they were not able to find the serial code in their system.  After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system.
> They suggested I ask seller for receipt.
> I contacted the seller explaining what happened and asked her for receipt or proof of purchase with info crossed out. I wanted bracelet resized and they would not service unless COA was in the system or I had receipt.  The seller basically told me the stores
> were rude for denying me service. The second time I contacted her she replied that if I was unhappy with purchase send it back to her. I explained that it wasn't because I was unhappy I just wanted to make sure it was authentic and wanted to resize. She stopped responding after that. I opened request for return,  mailed it and she refunded right away.  I noticed that she relisted the item immediately after receiving.  I left her a negative feedback back and explained what I stated above. She now contacts me asking to revise my feedback. She said her husband had purchased from high end jewelry store that sells authentic preowned jewelry but  is  now out of business due to Covid. I was feeling kinda of bad because she was selling a few other things including baby clothes and designer shoes. I don't want her to lose buyers if this is her means of income but felt that she wasn't completely honest with me. I'm considering revising to neutral feedback.


I would definitely ignore her.  She sold you and item and lied about where it was purchased. The COA wasn’t in any system because it was a fake.   Your feedback is the red flag her listing deserves.


----------



## sparkle7

880 said:


> if you revise your feedback, the next unsuspecting prospective buyer may be scammed and not be so lucky as to get a refund. The COA she provided was fake.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with @BigAkoya. Honest negative feedback, based on her wrongdoing,  is her problem, not yours.
> 
> also, as per my post above, if you want legitimate VCA, especially alhambra, buy only from the boutique.  The use of CAD computer design makes the dupe or replica indistinguishable from the real thing.


Thank you.  I plan on making a purchase this fall at the boutique.  It will give me a piece of mind


----------



## eletons

sparkle7 said:


> I need some advice  again regarding the VCA set I purchased from an online seller. I  was  told by 3 VCA  that the COA the seller  provided with the items was not in any of their systems. At first I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt because she seemed genuine.  I originally went to my local VCA boutique and they were not able to find the serial code in their system.  After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system.
> They suggested I ask seller for receipt.
> I contacted the seller explaining what happened and asked her for receipt or proof of purchase with info crossed out. I wanted bracelet resized and they would not service unless COA was in the system or I had receipt.  The seller basically told me the stores
> were rude for denying me service. The second time I contacted her she replied that if I was unhappy with purchase send it back to her. I explained that it wasn't because I was unhappy I just wanted to make sure it was authentic and wanted to resize. She stopped responding after that. I opened request for return,  mailed it and she refunded right away.  I noticed that she relisted the item immediately after receiving.  I left her a negative feedback back and explained what I stated above. She now contacts me asking to revise my feedback. She said her husband had purchased from high end jewelry store that sells authentic preowned jewelry but  is  now out of business due to Covid. I was feeling kinda of bad because she was selling a few other things including baby clothes and designer shoes. I don't want her to lose buyers if this is her means of income but felt that she wasn't completely honest with me. I'm considering revising to neutral feedback.


People have no gulit selling fakes and buyers have the right to let others know about their purchasing experience. 

For stars, maybe give 3 stars neutral stars but leaving the feedback unchanged to help others know what they are buying.


----------



## AnaBeavTheOG

sparkle7 said:


> I need some advice  again regarding the VCA set I purchased from an online seller. I  was  told by 3 VCA  that the COA the seller  provided with the items was not in any of their systems. At first I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt because she seemed genuine.  I originally went to my local VCA boutique and they were not able to find the serial code in their system.  After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system.
> They suggested I ask seller for receipt.
> I contacted the seller explaining what happened and asked her for receipt or proof of purchase with info crossed out. I wanted bracelet resized and they would not service unless COA was in the system or I had receipt.  The seller basically told me the stores
> were rude for denying me service. The second time I contacted her she replied that if I was unhappy with purchase send it back to her. I explained that it wasn't because I was unhappy I just wanted to make sure it was authentic and wanted to resize. She stopped responding after that. I opened request for return,  mailed it and she refunded right away.  I noticed that she relisted the item immediately after receiving.  I left her a negative feedback back and explained what I stated above. She now contacts me asking to revise my feedback. She said her husband had purchased from high end jewelry store that sells authentic preowned jewelry but  is  now out of business due to Covid. I was feeling kinda of bad because she was selling a few other things including baby clothes and designer shoes. I don't want her to lose buyers if this is her means of income but felt that she wasn't completely honest with me. I'm considering revising to neutral feedback.



Please don't feel bad. Your review is not causing her to lose buyers. She is.


----------



## missie1

eletons said:


> People have no gulit selling fakes and buyers have the right to let others know about their purchasing experience.
> 
> For stars, maybe give 3 stars neutral stars but leaving the feedback unchanged to help others know what they are buying.


I wouldn’t change to neutral for a person knowingly selling fakes.  The seller knew what she was doing.   dishonesty and scamming people out of thousands of dollars is wrong.  She deserves that bad rating.


----------



## eletons

sparkle7 said:


> Thank you.  I plan on making a purchase this fall at the boutique.  It will give me a piece of mind


Personally I am against buying from a second hand market whether it's handbags or jewelry items unless you're buying from auction house like Sotheby's. It's too much of a trouble needing to return if it doesn't fit or it's a fake. As for collectors, it's better to think twice before purchasing, this way, there's no need to sell any items because you know why you bought them in the first place. It also helps beating fakes probably.


----------



## EpiFanatic

sparkle7 said:


> I need some advice  again regarding the VCA set I purchased from an online seller. I  was  told by 3 VCA  that the COA the seller  provided with the items was not in any of their systems. At first I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt because she seemed genuine.  I originally went to my local VCA boutique and they were not able to find the serial code in their system.  After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system.
> They suggested I ask seller for receipt.
> I contacted the seller explaining what happened and asked her for receipt or proof of purchase with info crossed out. I wanted bracelet resized and they would not service unless COA was in the system or I had receipt.  The seller basically told me the stores
> were rude for denying me service. The second time I contacted her she replied that if I was unhappy with purchase send it back to her. I explained that it wasn't because I was unhappy I just wanted to make sure it was authentic and wanted to resize. She stopped responding after that. I opened request for return,  mailed it and she refunded right away.  I noticed that she relisted the item immediately after receiving.  I left her a negative feedback back and explained what I stated above. She now contacts me asking to revise my feedback. She said her husband had purchased from high end jewelry store that sells authentic preowned jewelry but  is  now out of business due to Covid. I was feeling kinda of bad because she was selling a few other things including baby clothes and designer shoes. I don't want her to lose buyers if this is her means of income but felt that she wasn't completely honest with me. I'm considering revising to neutral feedback.


I am sorry you had to go through this. How stressful. I don’t necessarily think the items were fake. But as a seller she should have anticipated that buyers would try to verify authenticity. As such, if she really wanted to conduct an honest successful sale, she should have authenticated her items with VCA before putting them up for sale. You are not in the wrong in returning them and you did as much as could be expected to verify authenticity.  The feedback you left is honest, and it serves to warn other less savvy potential purchasers.


----------



## Glitterbomb

EpiFanatic said:


> I am sorry you had to go through this. How stressful. I don’t necessarily think the items were fake. But as a seller she should have anticipated that buyers would try to verify authenticity. As such, if she really wanted to conduct an honest successful sale, she should have authenticated her items with VCA before putting them up for sale. You are not in the wrong in returning them and you did as much as could be expected to verify authenticity.  The feedback you left is honest, and it serves to warn other less savvy potential purchasers.



I agree, except if the NM the item was supposedly purchased at doesn't have the serial number in their system that is indicative of a fake imo.


----------



## EpiFanatic

Glitterbomb said:


> I agree, except if the NM the item was supposedly purchased at doesn't have the serial number in their system that is indicative of a fake imo.


I think she said her husband purchased them second hand.  Did the COA say NM?


----------



## BigAkoya

EpiFanatic said:


> I think she said her husband purchased them second hand.  Did the COA say NM?


Yes... the COA said NM.

Here is an excerpt from the OP (post #157)
_After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system._

The OP called; she even submitted the COA to the store manager to verify (you can read all her posts). 
It's definitely fake.

And post #140 of the NM saying it's not in the system. 





						Real Versus High End Fake VCA
					

I have done this, it’s a bit of a rigmarole, for some pieces they just take them without question, but for other pieces they have me send in a photocopy the paperwork along with the item. One item I had adjusted twice, and my sales associate at the standalone boutique asked me to send a...




					forum.purseblog.com


----------



## EpiFanatic

BigAkoya said:


> Yes... the COA said NM.
> 
> Here is an excerpt from the OP (post #157)
> _After getting feedback from you guys I called several VCA boutiques inside Neiman's as COA said was purchased at a VCA inside NM. Both boutiques including the one in which the item was supposedely purchased could not find the serial code in their system._
> 
> The OP called; she even submitted the COA to the store manager to verify (you can read all her posts).
> It's definitely fake.


That’s unfortunate. Yeah. It looks bad. It is sad that people keep trying to sell pieces that essentially can be verified as fake. @sparkle7, your feedback then will definitely be important to warn off potential buyers.


----------



## BigAkoya

EpiFanatic said:


> That’s unfortunate. Yeah. It looks bad. It is sad that people keep trying to sell pieces that essentially can be verified as fake. @sparkle7, your feedback then will definitely be important to warn off potential buyers.


Yes, especially since the seller knew it was fake  She just casually said "just send it back" to the OP when the OP questioned her about VCA and NM not finding the piece in the system.  

The seller knows she got busted.  Then she ignores the OP's further emails.  I would definitely say the seller is intentionally selling fakes as it is relisted.


----------



## 880

BigAkoya said:


> The seller knows she got busted. Then she ignores the OP's further emails. I would definitely say the seller is intentionally selling fakes as it is relisted.



Agree.

IMO this deserves negative feedback, not simply neutral
JMO, YMMV.

i also think it’s very likely that the actual item is fake.


----------



## sparkle7

EpiFanatic said:


> That’s unfortunate. Yeah. It looks bad. It is sad that people keep trying to sell pieces that essentially can be verified as fake. @sparkle7, your feedback then will definitely be important to warn off potential buyers.


When I saw that she haf relisted the earrings, I wanted to  warn  potential buyers. If they still decided to buy at least they knew my experience.


----------



## Storm Spirit

sparkle7 said:


> When I saw that she haf relisted the earrings, I wanted to  warn  potential buyers. If they still decided to buy at least they knew my experience.



Is this the same seller who sold this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/225023719280 If so then it's a good thing that you returned it. Not an expert but a few things look off to me.


----------



## nicole0612

Storm Spirit said:


> Is this the same seller who sold this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/225023719280 If so then it's a good thing that you returned it. Not an expert but a few things look off to me.


I agree, both items are fake (OPs and this necklace), I am glad that you were able to return it!


----------



## BigAkoya

nicole0612 said:


> I agree, both items are fake (OPs and this necklace), I am glad that you were able to return it!


You are such a pro!


----------



## missie1

nicole0612 said:


> I agree, both items are fake (OPs and this necklace), I am glad that you were able to return it!


Our unofficial eyes.  I love it


----------



## marbella8

nicole0612 said:


> I agree, both items are fake (OPs and this necklace), I am glad that you were able to return it!



Yes you are right, fake necklace and she sold another one a month ago, so she either keeps buying fakes and reselling or that fake got returned.

I wish @sparkle7 you hadn’t changed your feedback to neutral. This seller is selling fakes, knowingly. It’s obvious, bc she is selling the necklace too and has now sold it at least 2x. She’s not an unsuspecting-innocent party, but a fraud, liar, intentionally selling fakes.


----------



## BigAkoya

marbella8 said:


> Yes you are right, fake necklace and she sold another one a month ago, so she either keeps buying fakes and reselling or that fake got returned.
> 
> I wish @sparkle7 you hadn’t changed your feedback to neutral. This seller is selling fakes, knowingly. It’s obvious, bc she is selling the necklace too and has now sold it at least 2x. She’s not an unsuspecting-innocent party, but a fraud, liar, intentionally selling fakes.


I see her listings sold/feedback. I am surprised no one has reported her on eBay, or maybe they have and she keeps relisting.  What a scammer.


----------



## marbella8

BigAkoya said:


> I see her listings sold/feedback. I am surprised no one has reported her on eBay, or maybe they have and she keeps relisting.  What a scammer.



Most people don’t know the differences and when someone has 100% feedback, they trust them, unfortunately. That’s why neutral feedback is not useful, because it kept her feedback at 100%, so unless someone goes to look into her feedback, they won’t see the reason for the neutral feedback.

I agree, she’s a total scammer and should be reported.


----------



## missie1

The seller now doesn’t have anything listed for sale.   As I was going to report her


----------



## BigAkoya

missie1 said:


> The seller now doesn’t have anything listed for sale.   As I was going to report her


I saw one when the link was first posted. She took it down.  She’s probably on TPF lurking!  

Give her a few weeks. She’ll be back listing fake stuff.


----------



## BigAkoya

sparkle7 said:


> When I saw that she haf relisted the earrings, I wanted to  warn  potential buyers. If they still decided to buy at least they knew my experience.


She took the earrings down, for now.  She has 100% good feedback, so someone will but the fake earrings and necklace.

It’s a bummer you changed your rating to neutral which is why she is at 100%, so now others won’t look to be warned.  Seems she scammed you again (and possibly others) with her fake sob story.


----------



## marbella8

BigAkoya said:


> I saw one when the link was first posted. She took it down.  She’s probably on TPF lurking!
> 
> Give her a few weeks. She’ll be back listing fake stuff.



I totally agree, I was going to say the same thing. She might be a lurker or even, bite my tongue, a member here. There was a lady, forgot her name, but she was a total scammer and bought authentic bags and returned fakes to TJ Maxx or something like that and got arrested I believe. She posted on one of the forums I used to be more active on, but I always found her comments short and odd.


----------



## marbella8

missie1 said:


> The seller now doesn’t have anything listed for sale.   As I was going to report her



Bummer- she’ll be back. Crooks and scammers are greedy.


----------



## marbella8

I also wanted to warn a lot of us, myself included as to a lot of fake turquoise Alhambras. Please be careful.


----------



## missie1

marbella8 said:


> I also wanted to warn a lot of us, myself included as to a lot of fake turquoise Alhambras. Please be careful.


Yes definitely.  OMG the fear on the turquoise is unreal. When I was looking at various sites I was so hesitant about buying from unknown persons as Im definitely no expert.   Lucky for me both of my pieces were from total trustworthy sources.


----------



## missie1

marbella8 said:


> Bummer- she’ll be back. Crooks and scammers are greedy.


Yes I can’t believe the shade of some people.


----------



## BigAkoya

missie1 said:


> Yes definitely.  OMG the fear on the turquoise is unreal. When I was looking at various sites I was so hesitant about buying from unknown persons as Im definitely no expert.   Lucky for me both of my pieces were from total trustworthy sources.


Buying used is so scary.  You are lucky you got your pieces, and they are genuine.  
I recently did my first and last time bidding on a used piece (I did not win).  It was a Cartier piece on auction at Sotheby's.  You'd think given it's Sotheby's it would be 100% real.  To this day, I still think the stones in the piece were altered.


----------



## missie1

BigAkoya said:


> Buying used is so scary.  You are lucky you got your pieces, and they are genuine.
> I recently did my first and last time bidding on a used piece (I did not win).  It was a Cartier piece on auction at Sotheby's.  You'd think given it's Sotheby's it would be 100% real.  To this day, I still think the stones in the piece were altered.


That’s what gets me is the lack of transparency and from an auction house no less.  I was extremely lucky omg still can’t believe it.  With the prices that these pieces are commanding you would think auction house would send to Cartier for authentication before selling.  So many unscrupulous people out here.


----------



## eletons

BigAkoya said:


> Buying used is so scary.  You are lucky you got your pieces, and they are genuine.
> I recently did my first and last time bidding on a used piece (I did not win).  It was a Cartier piece on auction at Sotheby's.  You'd think given it's Sotheby's it would be 100% real.  To this day, I still think the stones in the piece were altered.


If there's doubt about stones being altered, buyers can voice out even after the purchase. For Sotheby's, I had the chance to meet the person who authenticate Hermes pieces, I think for Hermes, if there's no receipt, sellers are recommended to take the bags to Hermes stores to service and take the servicing slip as proof of authenticity. After all, big auction houses have a name to protect, I don't think they will take big risks. As for VCA, I guess buyers or sellers can always pay to have their pieces authenticated in the VCA store. The metal and diamonds are not easy to fake because they have a formula for the amount of gold and other metals for mixing the 18k gold and the colour of 18k gold will reflect this.


----------



## BigAkoya

missie1 said:


> That’s what gets me is the lack of transparency and from an auction house no less.  I was extremely lucky omg still can’t believe it.  With the prices that these pieces are commanding you would think auction house would send to Cartier for authentication before selling.  So many unscrupulous people out here.


Yes, I was really surprised too.  I even emailed Sotheby's prior to the auction starting and asked if they had certification of the origin of the stones (they were rubies), and I asked about the diamonds (the way it was written, the grade/clarity was off to me).  Sotheby's came back saying they do not do extensive certification, and it is up to the buyer to do all homework.  I knew I could return, so I bidded anyway.  I did not win, and I also took that as a hint to save me aggravation had I won.  I really do not want to deal with wondering if a used piece is 100% authentic in its original state, having to get it certified, blah blah blah.  That's too much drama for me.  There is so much other brand new jewelry I love that buying used at auction ended fast for me.


----------



## eletons

BigAkoya said:


> Yes, I was really surprised too.  I even emailed Sotheby's prior to the auction starting and asked if they had certification of the origin of the stones (they were rubies), and I asked about the diamonds (the way it was written, the grade/clarity was off to me).  Sotheby's came back saying they do not do extensive certification, and it is up to the buyer to do all homework.  I knew I could return, so I bidded anyway.  I did not win, and I also took that as a hint to save me aggravation had I won.  I really do not want to deal with wondering if a used piece is 100% authentic in its original state, having to get it certified, blah blah blah.  That's too much drama for me.  There is so much other brand new jewelry I love that buying used at auction ended fast for me.


Even buying brand new jewelry requires caution as there's a case reported from Tiffany's that one of their staff switched the   real diamond rings with a fake one. Luckily another staff checked it and found out about it before selling. The police have been called and the thief caught. Unfortunately the real diamond rings are nowhere to be found.


----------



## eletons

By the way, for those who would like to buy heritage pieces or vintage pieces from VCA, it's been known that they have a heritage department in the flagship store in Paris, maybe not just in Paris in other cities as well, this is one of the safe ways to acquire vintage pieces, don't think they have Alhambra pieces though as they don't consider this collection discontinued or shy away from the market.


----------



## sparkle7

marbella8 said:


> Yes you are right, fake necklace and she sold another one a month ago, so she either keeps buying fakes and reselling or that fake got returned.
> 
> I wish @sparkle7 you hadn’t changed your feedback to neutral. This seller is selling fakes, knowingly. It’s obvious, bc she is selling the necklace too and has now sold it at least 2x. She’s not an unsuspecting-innocent party, but a fraud, liar, intentionally selling fakes.


She kept asking me to delete the feedback. I said I'd change it but left basically the same feedback. I  wish I stuck to negative as well.


----------



## tenshix

eletons said:


> Even buying brand new jewelry requires caution as there's a case reported from Tiffany's that one of their staff switched the   real diamond rings with a fake one. Luckily another staff checked it and found out about it before selling. The police have been called and the thief caught. Unfortunately the real diamond rings are nowhere to be found.



This is insane! Scary. The greed of some people!


----------



## sparkle7

BigAkoya said:


> I see her listings sold/feedback. I am surprised no one has reported her on eBay, or maybe they have and she keeps relisting.  What a scammer.


I didn't realize she had sold another one except the necklace and set she sold to me. Now I really feel played. She sent me several messages and I gave in.


----------



## eletons

sparkle7 said:


> I didn't realize she had sold another one except the necklace and set she sold to me. Now I really feel played. She sent me several messages and I gave in.


Is it possible to report her to eBay? Maybe eBay considered the file closed as she made the refund?


----------



## BigAkoya

sparkle7 said:


> I didn't realize she had sold another one except the necklace and set she sold to me. Now I really feel played. She sent me several messages and I gave in.


The most important thing is you got a full refund!  I am so glad for you it was drama-free.


----------



## 880

eletons said:


> Is it possible to report her to eBay? Maybe eBay considered the file closed as she made the refund?


Perhaps OP might be the only one who can either report or alter the feedback so that other prospective buyers are not scammed.


----------



## Ylesiya

I finally managed to look through the seller's account and listings.
Both bracelet and necklace are 100% fake. Strange the SAs were searching the serial in the system while that clasp alone tells everything (wonder what serial engraving on the side looked like.).
With all due respect to the OP - there were only 3 low quality photos in the listing, definitely should be quite suspicious right at the start. Clasp looks very off even in this bad picture. Price is also too good to be true - who sells such a bracelet at 2.5k? The seller also did not even show the certificate properly.
Necklace's engraving is horrendous by the way 

I said many times and will say again: I love buying pre-owned and scored quite a few fantastic pieces for my collection, some of them are collectibles, but one has to make an educated purchase! There is nothing wrong with asking a seller for more photos prior to buying in order to obtain a third party opinion, especially of all the hallmarks, documents and other details necessary for authentication.

This particular seller obviously knew what she was doing - probably she wanted to earn a few bucks on the side by selling some fakes disguised as her personal items. Luckily, these days I don't see much counterfeits on eBay anymore like it was in the past but one still has to be careful. Few times I saw some resellers selling counterfeits - my guess they did not even know what they were selling and were sure the items were authentic.


----------



## missie1

Wanted to show replica on Tradesy that doesn’t say it’s VCA in the listings.


----------



## sjunky13

missie1 said:


> Wanted to show replica on Tradesy that doesn’t say it’s VCA in the listings.
> 
> View attachment 5446192


Betteridge jeweler makes the same piece. They used to carry VCA. It is only 5k though.


----------



## cajhingle

an instagram post, apparently, 'mirror copy' for $600. it also comes with box and 'cert' #scary


----------



## EpiFanatic

cajhingle said:


> an instagram post, apparently, 'mirror copy' for $600. it also comes with box and 'cert' #scary


Close up, these are clearly fake. But they did say “mirror”.


----------



## xo.babydoll

Ladies, what’s scarier is that there is a whole subreddit out there dedicated to these “high end replicas”. What’s even worse is there are women on there who post pictures of their authentic pieces so that other women can use it to “quality check” their fake items. Women  on there will also pull real serial numbers from items off secondhand websites and ask to have it engraved on their fakes.  The amount of detail that these counterfeit producers try to replicate is very scary indeed. If someone wanted to buy a “mirror image” fake, its not hard at all. Definitely would stay away from secondhand if possible…


----------



## EpiFanatic

xo.babydoll said:


> Ladies, what’s scarier is that there is a whole subreddit out there dedicated to these “high end replicas”. What’s even worse is there are women on there who post pictures of their authentic pieces so that other women can use it to “quality check” their fake items. Women  on there will also pull real serial numbers from items off secondhand websites and ask to have it engraved on their fakes.  The amount of detail that these counterfeit producers try to replicate is very scary indeed. If someone wanted to buy a “mirror image” fake, its not hard at all. Definitely would stay away from secondhand if possible…


Engraving a real serial number on a fake piece does not sound so bright for an owner of real pieces.


----------



## eletons

xo.babydoll said:


> Ladies, what’s scarier is that there is a whole subreddit out there dedicated to these “high end replicas”. What’s even worse is there are women on there who post pictures of their authentic pieces so that other women can use it to “quality check” their fake items. Women  on there will also pull real serial numbers from items off secondhand websites and ask to have it engraved on their fakes.  The amount of detail that these counterfeit producers try to replicate is very scary indeed. If someone wanted to buy a “mirror image” fake, its not hard at all. Definitely would stay away from secondhand if possible…


I wonder if those who gave out serial number are counterfeit sellers or not because some counterfeit sellers possess the authentic pieces and make replicas modelling the authentic pieces. 

I mean who would knowingly gives out serial number for others to make replicas of their original pieces if they're not replica sellers?


----------



## xo.babydoll

EpiFanatic said:


> Engraving a real serial number on a fake piece does not sound so bright for an owner of real pieces.



Honestly, I was floored when I realized owners of authentic pieces were trying to help and encourage those who buy fakes… 




eletons said:


> I wonder if those who gave out serial number are counterfeit sellers or not because some counterfeit sellers possess the authentic pieces and make replicas modelling the authentic pieces.
> 
> I mean who would knowingly gives out serial number for others to make replicas of their original pieces if they're not replica sellers?



People actually go on consignment websites like fashionphile and will look up listings of the item they want. For example, someone looking to buy a fake YG MOP pendant will look for one on a consignment shop, take the serial number from the authentic listing, and then request to have it engraved on their counterfeit order. These people work directly with sellers from China when ordering, and requests can be put in for specific serial numbers when the order is made.


----------



## eletons

xo.babydoll said:


> Honestly, I was floored when I realized owners of authentic pieces were trying to help and encourage those who buy fakes…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People actually go on consignment websites like fashionphile and will look up listings of the item they want. For example, someone looking to buy a fake YG MOP pendant will look for one on a consignment shop, take the serial number from the authentic listing, and then request to have it engraved on their counterfeit order. These people work directly with sellers from China when ordering, and requests can be put in for specific serial numbers when the order is made.


No matter what, fake can not be 100% near the perfection of the authentic ones. But of course a real one needs to be put side by side with the fake one in order to decide. As I said in other posts, the formula of the gold mixing with the amount of other metals is not known to the replica producers. So the colour of the gold will sell them out. 

As for the stones, not sure if they dye their stones or not but if they do, the dye will fade overtime. Whether buying from a boutique or second hand, always keep an eye on the details because with online official website shopping , there's a risk of people ordering and switching fake piece with real one and do a return.


----------



## Ylesiya

eletons said:


> I wonder if those who gave out serial number are counterfeit sellers or not because some counterfeit sellers possess the authentic pieces and make replicas modelling the authentic pieces.
> 
> I mean who would knowingly gives out serial number for others to make replicas of their original pieces if they're not replica sellers?



What @xo.babydoll says is that people are looking for the ads online where other people are selling their authentic pieces openly disclosing serial numbers on them.
For example, others already mentioned fashionphile who does not hide the serial numbers and they are openly available to the public. 
However, they don't always (or maybe even don't ever) show all the documentation that comes with the jewellery. Serial number alone is not a big deal IMHO. These kind of pieces need documentation, so even authentic item sold "as is" will drop in price significantly if there is no supporting paperwork coming with it. Unless this is some vintage piece where authenticity is so obvious - I nearly took a plunge and bought a 20 motif turtleshell vintage necklace recently but slapped myself on the hands. Or a very reputable reseller like FP with established in-house authentication.

This is why legit sellers also bring their pieces to VCA stores for some routine servicing before selling to at least obtain some reassurance in the item's authenticity in case the original docs were lost.

So personally it does not bother me - these crazy reddit ladies can do whatever crazy things they want but it is still very far away from fooling people with some knowledge or the brand itself. Plus this activity will never stop, no matter what you do.

I did a scroll through eBay today (I will keep trying to get a pair of Pure earrings, sigh...) and stumbled across at least two listings with counterfeits disguised as authentic. One pair of earrings in a fake box and a bracelet in the original VCA box. 

What I know for sure is that some people really do put a great deal of effort in faking even documentation for the items by looking at sale groups where people normally openly post a lot of sensitive information: whole information on the certs including date and place of purchase, photos of the receipts etc. This is why it is a good practice to hide at least part of the serial number and some other data like exact day of purchase etc. This is done to ensure the fake item passes so-called "store check" in case someone has a SA who can type in the number in the system and see when it was bought and which item it is.

Whatever you are buying, make sure you pay with a secure method and have an authenticity check method in place for the item. Counterfeit will never pass VCA SC.


----------



## eletons

Ylesiya said:


> What @xo.babydoll says is that people are looking for the ads online where other people are selling their authentic pieces openly disclosing serial numbers on them.
> For example, others already mentioned fashionphile who does not hide the serial numbers and they are openly available to the public.
> However, they don't always (or maybe even don't ever) show all the documentation that comes with the jewellery. Serial number alone is not a big deal IMHO. These kind of pieces need documentation, so even authentic item sold "as is" will drop in price significantly if there is no supporting paperwork coming with it. Unless this is some vintage piece where authenticity is so obvious - I nearly took a plunge and bought a 20 motif turtleshell vintage necklace recently but slapped myself on the hands. Or a very reputable reseller like FP with established in-house authentication.
> 
> This is why legit sellers also bring their pieces to VCA stores for some routine servicing before selling to at least obtain some reassurance in the item's authenticity in case the original docs were lost.
> 
> So personally it does not bother me - these crazy reddit ladies can do whatever crazy things they want but it is still very far away from fooling people with some knowledge or the brand itself. Plus this activity will never stop, no matter what you do.
> 
> I did a scroll through eBay today (I will keep trying to get a pair of Pure earrings, sigh...) and stumbled across at least two listings with counterfeits disguised as authentic. One pair of earrings in a fake box and a bracelet in the original VCA box.
> 
> What I know for sure is that some people really do put a great deal of effort in faking even documentation for the items by looking at sale groups where people normally openly post a lot of sensitive information: whole information on the certs including date and place of purchase, photos of the receipts etc. This is why it is a good practice to hide at least part of the serial number and some other data like exact day of purchase etc. This is done to ensure the fake item passes so-called "store check" in case someone has a SA who can type in the number in the system and see when it was bought and which item it is.
> 
> Whatever you are buying, make sure you pay with a secure method and have an authenticity check method in place for the item. Counterfeit will never pass VCA SC.


People buy jewelry or brand name items for different reasons and that's fine. 
Those who see long term and see jewelry as part of their legacy might not consider fakes because who would want to remind their offsprings or relatives of the next generation as the aunt who wears fake and pass down fake vca? Supporting authentic pieces is one of the family educations. It educates about life choices and certain moral codes. Being seen as successful is one thing and being genuinely happy and define your own success is another. The short lived satisfaction will not stand the test of time and not sure if those who buy fakes are courageous enough to bring out the truth that all their life, they have been wearing fake VCAs near the end of their life in the future. 
Yes, those who buy fakes might argue that by the time they're dead, no one cares and since they are dead, they can't hear the bad names they are being called but the fake items might bring trouble to their loved ones supposedly they didn't disclose the truth about their fake items and their loved ones want to sell it. It gives bad names to their loved ones of the next generation. If they disclose it,  will their loved ones take a risk and sell fake ones that have been passed down just to make a few bucks? 
Not sure what fake buyers are thinking about. In Asian cultures, people tend to leave one piece of jewelry to each relative of the same family tree after they pass away. Not sure if it's a family thing but at least in my family, it's like this.


----------



## Ylesiya

@eletons 
I am in Asia and the counterfeit market here is huge. One can get jewellery of a very good quality at very reasonable prices and people do it.
I think people buy it for their own weird reasons, I even saw people buying replicas while they easily could afford an authentic item.
My opinion is that there is no point trying to understand this - people are different and since ancient history the folk has been trying to replicate coins, paintings and other valuables. And it will continue, full stop.

Point is not to feed the market with data and to protect yourself if buying something pre owned.

I've been saying in Special Orders thread that since I am getting 14 motif Pure necklace, I wanted to request for SO/MTO pure earrings which were previously produced by VCA and now discontinued. The answer was absolutely no - even though they produce VA earrings and VA size pure necklaces  . So there is no other way for me to get a pair rather than to hunt vintage pieces online - they pop but very rarely! One could go and order not a bad replica in theory but again for me this jewellery is more about a relationship with the brand, appreciation of the history, evolution and values, so I rather sit without the earrings than try to get some third party copy.
Sadly, for some other people it's different but it is what it is.


----------



## eletons

Ylesiya said:


> @eletons
> I am in Asia and the counterfeit market here is huge. One can get jewellery of a very good quality at very reasonable prices and people do it.
> I think people buy it for their own weird reasons, I even saw people buying replicas while they easily could afford an authentic item.
> My opinion is that there is no point trying to understand this - people are different and since ancient history the folk has been trying to replicate coins, paintings and other valuables. And it will continue, full stop.
> 
> Point is not to feed the market with data and to protect yourself if buying something pre owned.
> 
> I've been saying in Special Orders thread that since I am getting 14 motif Pure necklace, I wanted to request for SO/MTO pure earrings which were previously produced by VCA and now discontinued. The answer was absolutely no - even though they produce VA earrings and VA size pure necklaces  . So there is no other way for me to get a pair rather than to hunt vintage pieces online - they pop but very rarely! One could go and order not a bad replica in theory but again for me this jewellery is more about a relationship with the brand, appreciation of the history, evolution and values, so I rather sit without the earrings than try to get some third party copy.
> Sadly, for some other people it's different but it is what it is.


Oh dear, I have just seen the pure MOP earrings on Hong Kong vca official website. Maybe you can call one of the Hong Kong vca boutiques? 

Is it this one?


----------



## Ylesiya

eletons said:


> Oh dear, I have just seen the pure MOP earrings on Hong Kong vca official website. Maybe you can call one of the Hong Kong vca boutiques?
> 
> Is it this one?



These are studs  sweet size - I'm after vintage size ones with leverbacks


----------



## eletons

Ylesiya said:


> @eletons
> I am in Asia and the counterfeit market here is huge. One can get jewellery of a very good quality at very reasonable prices and people do it.
> I think people buy it for their own weird reasons, I even saw people buying replicas while they easily could afford an authentic item.
> My opinion is that there is no point trying to understand this - people are different and since ancient history the folk has been trying to replicate coins, paintings and other valuables. And it will continue, full stop.
> 
> Point is not to feed the market with data and to protect yourself if buying something pre owned.
> 
> I've been saying in Special Orders thread that since I am getting 14 motif Pure necklace, I wanted to request for SO/MTO pure earrings which were previously produced by VCA and now discontinued. The answer was absolutely no - even though they produce VA earrings and VA size pure necklaces  . So there is no other way for me to get a pair rather than to hunt vintage pieces online - they pop but very rarely! One could go and order not a bad replica in theory but again for me this jewellery is more about a relationship with the brand, appreciation of the history, evolution and values, so I rather sit without the earrings than try to get some third party copy.
> Sadly, for some other people it's different but it is what it is.


People want to buy things that can increase in value like property and some fund in stock market. That's why luxury houses invented some items that are supposed to hold value or increase value like kelly, birkin bags. Also, luxury houses prove their value by increasing price every year. Those who buy fakes might not see its worth. They would rather put more funds elsewhere. 

This concept can be seen in vca 'rare' items as well. People hope to buy turquoise hoping it will increase more value in the future.


----------



## etoupebirkin

The whole faking serial numbers is really troubling. Its only purpose is to try to scam a subsequent buyer. It’s enabling fraud. Period.


----------



## Ylesiya

I wanted to share something here on the topic.
Please cover up serial numbers at least partially and purchase dates if you are sharing pics of your items online or selling. 
Fakers are lurking around the internet copying and pasting information onto counterfeit items and here is a great example.
So here are my findings.

Initially I saw this item on eBay.
It did not look too off as the serial number was largely omitted in the photos. 
I wrote to the seller and he refused to show the serial number engraving, so I did not bid. But overall all the markings were good and the bracelet seemed to be well made.

After some time this is what I saw:
Poshmark
Tradesy

Obviously this person won this bracelet and wanted to resell it at a higher price. Happens all the time.
Just there is a problem and the seller is reputable:
Vestiaire Collective

I am attaching two screenshots:






No doubts someone will eventually buy this fake bracelet thinking they have an authentic piece. 
And if this person were to ask their SA to do a "store check" this item's serial number would pop in the system.
Beware and don't share this information publicly, don't feed the scammers!


----------



## mommafahionista

Ylesiya said:


> I wanted to share something here on the topic.
> Please cover up serial numbers at least partially and purchase dates if you are sharing pics of your items online or selling.
> Fakers are lurking around the internet copying and pasting information onto counterfeit items and here is a great example.
> So here are my findings.
> 
> Initially I saw this item on eBay.
> It did not look too off as the serial number was largely omitted in the photos.
> I wrote to the seller and he refused to show the serial number engraving, so I did not bid. But overall all the markings were good and the bracelet seemed to be well made.
> 
> After some time this is what I saw:
> Poshmark
> Tradesy
> 
> Obviously this person won this bracelet and wanted to resell it at a higher price. Happens all the time.
> Just there is a problem and the seller is reputable:
> Vestiaire Collective
> 
> I am attaching two screenshots:
> View attachment 5575849
> 
> View attachment 5575850
> 
> 
> 
> No doubts someone will eventually buy this fake bracelet thinking they have an authentic piece.
> And if this person were to ask their SA to do a "store check" this item's serial number would pop in the system.
> Beware and don't share this information publicly, don't feed the scammers!


Oh my! I didn’t know people did this. I am so worried that I might buy a second hand piece that could be fake. I have bought pieces that pass through the serial number check at the store. Then you debate whether to spend another $1800 for authentication through the heritage department, especially if the piece is under 6K. I’m curious, what did you see in this piece that made you conclude it was definitely a fake? I took a quick peak, and the clasp looks ok, and some of the other markings are blurred so not 100% sure. The VCA au750 looks off to me, but since it is blurred, hard to tell. The color blue seems a bit dark for Sleeping Beauty TQ produced in 2013. I also would be more suspicious if the seller wasn’t from an established business, just an individual selling a few pieces. What did you see as the red flags? The authentication cards on Poshmark and Tradsey look to be the same person. However, the one on Vestaire is different from Poshmark and Tradsey. Look at the stamp placement of the location. Also, I believe that the reseller on Vestaire is a well known member on this forum, hopefully she has not been duped. How can 3 different people be selling the same piece?


----------



## etoupebirkin

I wonder whether the eBay, Poshmark, and Tradesy items were copied from the Vestiare listing?

Yes. When sellers show complete serial and purchase information, it WILL get copied.


----------



## Ylesiya

etoupebirkin said:


> I wonder whether the eBay, Poshmark, and Tradesy items were copied from the Vestiare listing?
> 
> Yes. When sellers show complete serial and purchase information, it WILL get copied.


Now that I looked into it closer I actually suspect VC listing is also not original - there are quite a bit of warning signs there as well. I wonder what serial number check would say. But screenshots of the certificates speak for themselves - they tried to copy the handwriting but it still differs!


----------



## chiaoapple

Regarding the disclosure of serial numbers – definitely agree that fakers are out there copying this info as @Ylesiya very helpfully showed us; this then creates a big dilemma for legit sellers. If they do not show the serial numbers, buyers may not feel comfortable purchasing and some instead may be duped by scammers who copied authentic listings…
All I can say is, this thread (super informative and so glad it was started) has scared me off of the online resell market.


----------



## lvmon

*w*


----------



## AnaBeavTheOG

P


chiaoapple said:


> Regarding the disclosure of serial numbers – definitely agree that fakers are out there copying this info as @Ylesiya very helpfully showed us; this then creates a big dilemma for legit sellers. If they do not show the serial numbers, buyers may not feel comfortable purchasing and some instead may be duped by scammers who copied authentic listings…
> All I can say is, this thread (super informative and so glad it was started) has scared me off of the online resell market.



Saaame. Plus, I love deals. I usually look for discounts first before paying full retail. OTOH, with such high value purchases, it makes more sense to buy directly from the vendor. But it goes against every fiber of my being, lol.


----------



## AnaBeavTheOG

If my past behavior is any indication, I'll probably be rehoming some VCA pieces within the next couple of years . But with the rate of which superfakes are getting better and better at imitating the real thing, I'm not sure how that's going to go. Oh well, that's future me's problem.


----------



## jenayb

AnaBeavTheOG said:


> P
> 
> 
> Saaame. Plus, I love deals. I usually look for discounts first before paying full retail. OTOH, with such high value purchases, it makes more sense to buy directly from the vendor. But it goes against every fiber of my being, lol.



To me, it makes sense to look for "deals" for things like denim, shoes, etc.

For high end jewelry et al, it absolutely makes sense to purchase directly. Knowing that all items are authentic is priceless, and JMHO, if I can't afford retail, I shouldn't be buying pieces anyway.


----------



## 880

I have friends and family, many of whom are extremely wealthy, who buy dupe alhambra pieces (CAD computer design) but without serial number or VCA markings (VCA failed to protect the alhambra IP, so there are lots of dupes). *I feel very strongly that if you want authentic VCA alhambra, you should purchase only from the boutique*. I have compared my authentic piece next to one of these dupes, and I cannot see any difference (I kept my hand on mine). Except that the dupes GMOP is a nicer shade


----------



## missie1

I’m only interested in purchasing resale VCA for discontinued items. With all these super fakes I’m only getting items from certain trusted established resellers or known individuals.  I have few rested stones on my wishlist.    If available in production I’m only getting from VCA.


----------



## marbella8

880 said:


> I have friends and family, many of whom are extremely wealthy, who buy dupe alhambra pieces (CAD computer design) but without serial number or VCA markings (VCA failed to protect the alhambra IP, so there are lots of dupes). *I feel very strongly that if you want authentic VCA alhambra, you should purchase only from the boutique*. I have compared my authentic piece next to one of these dupes, and I cannot see any difference (I kept my hand on mine). Except that the dupes GMOP is a nicer shade



You’re so funny that the GMOP is nicer!


----------



## Pursi

The handwriting on the "certificates" looks off.


Ylesiya said:


> I wanted to share something here on the topic.
> Please cover up serial numbers at least partially and purchase dates if you are sharing pics of your items online or selling.
> Fakers are lurking around the internet copying and pasting information onto counterfeit items and here is a great example.
> So here are my findings.
> 
> Initially I saw this item on eBay.
> It did not look too off as the serial number was largely omitted in the photos.
> I wrote to the seller and he refused to show the serial number engraving, so I did not bid. But overall all the markings were good and the bracelet seemed to be well made.
> 
> After some time this is what I saw:
> Poshmark
> Tradesy
> 
> Obviously this person won this bracelet and wanted to resell it at a higher price. Happens all the time.
> Just there is a problem and the seller is reputable:
> Vestiaire Collective
> 
> I am attaching two screenshots:
> View attachment 5575849
> 
> View attachment 5575850
> 
> 
> 
> No doubts someone will eventually buy this fake bracelet thinking they have an authentic piece.
> And if this person were to ask their SA to do a "store check" this item's serial number would pop in the system.
> Beware and don't share this information publicly, don't feed the scammers!


the handwriting looks "off" no?


----------



## Ylesiya

etoupebirkin said:


> I wonder whether the eBay, Poshmark, and Tradesy items were copied from the Vestiare listing?
> 
> Yes. When sellers show complete serial and purchase information, it WILL get copied.


Now that I look at it some more, Vestiaire listing also appeared in the middle of July this year, so it's also rather fresh. I think all these pieces kinda come from the same source and look very convincing. But now I am like 98% persuaded it's also a counterfeit but a very well made one and quite some time ago so it looks like a real aged item.



chiaoapple said:


> Regarding the disclosure of serial numbers – definitely agree that fakers are out there copying this info as @Ylesiya very helpfully showed us; this then creates a big dilemma for legit sellers. If they do not show the serial numbers, buyers may not feel comfortable purchasing and some instead may be duped by scammers who copied authentic listings…
> All I can say is, this thread (super informative and so glad it was started) has scared me off of the online resell market.



What sellers can do is to hide their serial numbers partially. And purchase date. The purpose of showing serial number IMHO is to show the quality of the engraving in general because no one can really check the serial number in the system for you before you bring it to the store for servicing/paid authentication. Unless I don't know, maybe you are in super fantastic relationship with your SA? But there are not many people like this.
So workaround here is to show the serial but blur the last two digits and the day of purchase showing month and year. Still shows all the necessary information for the buyer but prevents fakers from making exact copycats of serials and documentation. This is why I am cross with Fashionphile for exposing all this information so openly.



mommafahionista said:


> Oh my! I didn’t know people did this. I am so worried that I might buy a second hand piece that could be fake. I have bought pieces that pass through the serial number check at the store. Then you debate whether to spend another $1800 for authentication through the heritage department, especially if the piece is under 6K. I’m curious, what did you see in this piece that made you conclude it was definitely a fake? I took a quick peak, and the clasp looks ok, and some of the other markings are blurred so not 100% sure. The VCA au750 looks off to me, but since it is blurred, hard to tell. The color blue seems a bit dark for Sleeping Beauty TQ produced in 2013. I also would be more suspicious if the seller wasn’t from an established business, just an individual selling a few pieces. What did you see as the red flags? The authentication cards on Poshmark and Tradsey look to be the same person. However, the one on Vestaire is different from Poshmark and Tradsey. Look at the stamp placement of the location. Also, I believe that the reseller on Vestaire is a well known member on this forum, hopefully she has not been duped. How can 3 different people be selling the same piece?


I am quite sure the Posh and Tradesy listings belong to the same person and that particular bracelet originated from the eBay sale. The item on VC is different and I believe both these bracelets are not authentic and came from the same batch of counterfeits years ago - they even look aged and worn. Good lesson for me - I thought the old style clasp is not faked in general. 
With re to your questions look at the VC listing and count how many french eagles you see there and where. Plus amount of links next to the closure mechanism - this is very weird. Among other small but suspicious things. 



AnaBeavTheOG said:


> If my past behavior is any indication, I'll probably be rehoming some VCA pieces within the next couple of years . But with the rate of which superfakes are getting better and better at imitating the real thing, I'm not sure how that's going to go. Oh well, that's future me's problem.


I think if you have a full set with receipt etc, this should not be a problem. It's problematic when there's only a cert or no documentation at all.



880 said:


> I have friends and family, many of whom are extremely wealthy, who buy dupe alhambra pieces (CAD computer design) but without serial number or VCA markings (VCA failed to protect the alhambra IP, so there are lots of dupes). *I feel very strongly that if you want authentic VCA alhambra, you should purchase only from the boutique*. I have compared my authentic piece next to one of these dupes, and I cannot see any difference (I kept my hand on mine). Except that the dupes GMOP is a nicer shade


Haha, I agree and I've seen dupes with very nice shades of malachite and turquoise as well!



Pursi said:


> The handwriting on the "certificates" looks off.
> 
> the handwriting looks "off" no?


I am not sure about "off" handwriting. I've seen SAs with quite bad handwriting, this is not a criteria, especially for old items.


----------



## AnaBeavTheOG

Ylesiya said:


> I think if you have a full set with receipt etc, this should not be a problem. It's problematic when there's only a cert or no documentation at all.


Thanks for the reassurance! Good thing I always keep packaging and receipts until they start gathering dust. Now I just got to make sure my DH doesn't do a secret purge behind my back.


----------



## DeryaHm

880 said:


> I have friends and family, many of whom are extremely wealthy, who buy dupe alhambra pieces (CAD computer design) but without serial number or VCA markings (VCA failed to protect the alhambra IP, so there are lots of dupes). *I feel very strongly that if you want authentic VCA alhambra, you should purchase only from the boutique*. I have compared my authentic piece next to one of these dupes, and I cannot see any difference (I kept my hand on mine). Except that the dupes GMOP is a nicer shade



Yes. I know we warn not to post pics etc but I come from a country very very active in counterfeiting and have been to stores where super fakes are sold. They are, contrary to our worries, not scouring the Internet or purse forum for clues. The ones I’ve met buy original pieces and use those to copy. In the Covered Bazaar you can walk in and find tons of VCA, Cartier, Bulgari, Tiffany fakes (handbags even more so). If you go with a known customer they will show you the super fakes and sometimes the real articles they’ve bought themselves. It is a huge business. I do not support it and don’t buy from them or wear my real pieces or bags when I go with friends and family. My observation is that they definitely have their own real items to fake from and examine closely. I also know people who’ve loaned them pieces to copy for their own use. Even if I bought counterfeits I would never do that — who would trust them to give the real one back!?


----------



## eletons

Even though Alhambra collection is nice but for me, I will limit my collection due to counterfeit market and it's wise to purchase some nice time pieces because time piece is hard to imitate. Just look into the mechanism and the fake will be busted.


----------



## mommafahionista

Ylesiya said:


> Now that I look at it some more, Vestiaire listing also appeared in the middle of July this year, so it's also rather fresh. I think all these pieces kinda come from the same source and look very convincing. But now I am like 98% persuaded it's also a counterfeit but a very well made one and quite some time ago so it looks like a real aged item.
> 
> 
> 
> What sellers can do is to hide their serial numbers partially. And purchase date. The purpose of showing serial number IMHO is to show the quality of the engraving in general because no one can really check the serial number in the system for you before you bring it to the store for servicing/paid authentication. Unless I don't know, maybe you are in super fantastic relationship with your SA? But there are not many people like this.
> So workaround here is to show the serial but blur the last two digits and the day of purchase showing month and year. Still shows all the necessary information for the buyer but prevents fakers from making exact copycats of serials and documentation. This is why I am cross with Fashionphile for exposing all this information so openly.
> 
> 
> I am quite sure the Posh and Tradesy listings belong to the same person and that particular bracelet originated from the eBay sale. The item on VC is different and I believe both these bracelets are not authentic and came from the same batch of counterfeits years ago - they even look aged and worn. Good lesson for me - I thought the old style clasp is not faked in general.
> With re to your questions look at the VC listing and count how many french eagles you see there and where. Plus amount of links next to the closure mechanism - this is very weird. Among other small but suspicious things.
> 
> 
> I think if you have a full set with receipt etc, this should not be a problem. It's problematic when there's only a cert or no documentation at all.
> 
> 
> Haha, I agree and I've seen dupes with very nice shades of malachite and turquoise as well!
> 
> 
> I am not sure about "off" handwriting. I've seen SAs with quite bad handwriting, this is not a criteria, especially for old items.


You are definitely an internet sleuth!  It’s amazing how you were able to put this all together.
It looks like the Vestaire listing has been removed. Hmmm. What made you conclude that the bracelet was from the EBAY sale? I didn’t see the authentication card or serial number in that listing?



Safa said:


> Yes. I know we warn not to post pics etc but I come from a country very very active in counterfeiting and have been to stores where super fakes are sold. They are, contrary to our worries, not scouring the Internet or purse forum for clues. The ones I’ve met buy original pieces and use those to copy. In the Covered Bazaar you can walk in and find tons of VCA, Cartier, Bulgari, Tiffany fakes (handbags even more so). If you go with a known customer they will show you the super fakes and sometimes the real articles they’ve bought themselves. It is a huge business. I do not support it and don’t buy from them or wear my real pieces or bags when I go with friends and family. My observation is that they definitely have their own real items to fake from and examine closely. I also know people who’ve loaned them pieces to copy for their own use. Even if I bought counterfeits I would never do that — who would trust them to give the real one back!?


Which country are you referring to that does this? Are they a member/part of the EU? If so, I would find that extremely concerning since these designers are located in that union. I have a few countries in mind that don’t respect intellectual property but don’t want to be presumptuous.


AnaBeavTheOG said:


> Thanks for the reassurance! Good thing I always keep packaging and receipts until they start gathering dust. Now I just got to make sure my DH doesn't do a secret purge behind my back


My DH would do the same thing


----------



## AnaBeavTheOG

mommafahionista said:


> My DH would do the same thing



I swear, he'll leave things alone forever. Then the moment I need something, he'll tell me he already threw it out like a day or two ago.


----------



## DeryaHm

mommafahionista said:


> You are definitely an internet sleuth!  It’s amazing how you were able to put this all together.
> It looks like the Vestaire listing has been removed. Hmmm. What made you conclude that the bracelet was from the EBAY sale? I didn’t see the authentication card or serial number in that listing?
> 
> 
> Which country are you referring to that does this? Are they a member/part of the EU? If so, I would find that extremely concerning since these designers are located in that union. I have a few countries in mind that don’t respect intellectual property but don’t want to be presumptuous.
> 
> My DH would do the same thing



I am talking about Turkey, an eternal EU candidate, but not a member. But these things also happen in the EU. There was a huge bust in France of H workers making fakes and a huge news story in Turkey maybe 10-15 years ago now was a retired LV artisan opened a counterfeiting operation in Turkey.

I live in the US now and I know plenty of people who prefer fakes, but I don’t think the quality is as high as Turkish super fakes, the only ones I’ve knowingly seen. 

Re watches I think people buying counterfeits don’t care about the movement. I’ve also seen some good super fake watches that, like other super fakes, have a tell that was just someone being careless. I saw a fake Hublot “fabrique en susse” :eyeroll:


----------



## 880

Safa said:


> I don’t think the quality is as high as Turkish super fakes, the only ones I’ve knowingly seen.


I have also seen Turkish super fakes, and they are cad computer designed from a genuine piece.  i certainly could not tell the difference, weight, quality, luster. No markings, no serial number. If you want real VCA, it is not worth the risk to buy anywhere but the boutique. An individual amateur shopper will not be able to tell.


----------



## mommafahionista

Safa said:


> I am talking about Turkey, an eternal EU candidate, but not a member. But these things also happen in the EU. There was a huge bust in France of H workers making fakes and a huge news story in Turkey maybe 10-15 years ago now was a retired LV artisan opened a counterfeiting operation in Turkey.
> 
> I live in the US now and I know plenty of people who prefer fakes, but I don’t think the quality is as high as Turkish super fakes, the only ones I’ve knowingly seen.
> 
> Re watches I think people buying counterfeits don’t care about the movement. I’ve also seen some good super fake watches that, like other super fakes, have a tell that was just someone being careless. I saw a fake Hublot “fabrique en susse” :eyeroll:


When I googled,The Covered Bazaar, that was one of the countries that came up. Thanks for the insight. I wonder if these countries sell pieces to people that end up on EBay as in the example earlier in the thread? Scary to think about it


----------



## Ylesiya

mommafahionista said:


> You are definitely an internet sleuth!  It’s amazing how you were able to put this all together.
> It looks like the Vestaire listing has been removed. Hmmm. What made you conclude that the bracelet was from the EBAY sale? I didn’t see the authentication card or serial number in that listing?


What I meant is _I think_ there are 2 bracelets which are both counterfeits (Vestiaire and Posh/Tradesy). I uploaded photos on the previous page - please look at them. One is from VC listing, another one is from Posh/Tradesy. The certificates are similar but still different. But no one can be sure for 100% - photos are not reliable, they were not of a great quality, however, double eagle mark on the VC listing is highly suspicious, this is why _I think_ it's also not original but very very well made.
I also noticed the listing is taken down - maybe the seller reads this thread or FB group where I also posted?.. Who knows.



880 said:


> I have also seen Turkish super fakes, and they are cad computer designed from a genuine piece.  i certainly could not tell the difference, weight, quality, luster. No markings, no serial number. If you want real VCA, it is not worth the risk to buy anywhere but the boutique. An individual amateur shopper will not be able to tell.



I don't mean to sound angry, rude or whatever, but today there was a post on FB group where some anonymous member asked to help with the authentication of a piece she found on eBay for 720 bucks. The item was an ugly fake necklace which was not even a super fake, just a some low grade knock off. The poster said she does not own any VCA at all so it kinda would be her first piece from what I understand. I guess she does not have a lot of cash but gosh, scrolling through ebay and trying to find an amazing deal without basically knowing anything about the brand? Not checking resale prices? I bet she did since she probably saw other listings on the same eBay and for how much similar items are selling... Still thinking she found a deal that no one else dares to take. What is this? Greediness or what? That's how scammers catch people I suppose. I often help with authentication as much as I can but sometimes it's just a facepalm and a person just has to open her eyes to see it's all completely fishy.

Many people are stalking eBay and other sites for great and interesting deals which do happen but you need to have at least some experience and knowledge! And if you are really wanting some simple MOP pendant and not some super vintage retired coral 20 motif with alternating chrysoprase, save some more and gosh, just go to the store!


----------



## 880

Ylesiya said:


> sometimes it's just a facepalm and a person just has to open her eyes to see it's all completely fishy.


Yep, 100% agree
im not on Facebook groups, but I suggest an ignore button if possible
I think I only discovered the ignore button this year on TPF lol


----------



## Ylesiya

880 said:


> Yep, 100% agree
> im not on Facebook groups, but I suggest an ignore button if possible
> I think I only discovered the ignore button this year on TPF lol



I know... Typically I do just ignore without the button but it gets to me sometimes. 

I remember one person in Cartier group who kept posting some moderately acceptable fakes which she was finding at some Instagram accounts, desperately trying to find a cheap authentic love bracelet without attempting to actually pay for authentication at some reputable company and expecting others to authenticate for free with some crappy pictures. And this is very, very common. 
Good fakes are not cheap and those people who sell dupes as originals price them quite high sometimes, so it's still a serious expense! But somehow there's this desire to cut corners and to me it's a simple greed which doesn't end well. 

I know many people who bought pre owned and many of them are on this forum but these all are educated purchases by collectors who knew what they were doing and were not chasing for unbelievable deals... 
I'm a severe fan of retired pieces myself but I think it's wise to buy at the store whenever you can.


----------



## DeryaHm

880 said:


> I have also seen Turkish super fakes, and they are cad computer designed from a genuine piece.  i certainly could not tell the difference, weight, quality, luster. No markings, no serial number. If you want real VCA, it is not worth the risk to buy anywhere but the boutique. An individual amateur shopper will not be able to tell.



The biggest tell IMO is usually something off with the packaging. FWIW I have never bought a fake, but I have friends and family who do and have been to the shops. It’s serious business and unless you’re an obsessive collector it would be hard to tell the difference. I think bags are a little easier to tell. My guess is basically because you can see things that are off about a bag without pulling out a loupe


----------



## DeryaHm

mommafahionista said:


> When I googled,The Covered Bazaar, that was one of the countries that came up. Thanks for the insight. I wonder if these countries sell pieces to people that end up on EBay as in the example earlier in the thread? Scary to think about it



Almost certainly they do. I’ve seen groups of foreigners come specifically to shop at the super fake stores. I’ve also gently warned clueless people who thought they were getting a bargain on the real thing. I’d be more shocked if these aren’t in circulation than if they are. Probably because of this I rarely buy anything resale and never ever jewelry


----------



## mommafahionista

I think the best way to insure that when you buy a preloved piece, is to spend the money to have it authenticated by the maison directly. Any reputable reseller will offer a refund if the piece is found to be unauthentic, even if they were duped into purchasing it. If they give any excuse or reason why they cannot, then that says everything about the piece, and the seller’s integrity. After having my eyes opened to the pervasion of super fakes via this thread, I will be authenticating any/all my pre loved pieces. The piece of mind will be worth it


----------



## EpiFanatic

Ylesiya said:


> I know... Typically I do just ignore without the button but it gets to me sometimes.
> 
> I remember one person in Cartier group who kept posting some moderately acceptable fakes which she was finding at some Instagram accounts, desperately trying to find a cheap authentic love bracelet without attempting to actually pay for authentication at some reputable company and expecting others to authenticate for free with some crappy pictures. And this is very, very common.
> Good fakes are not cheap and those people who sell dupes as originals price them quite high sometimes, so it's still a serious expense! But somehow there's this desire to cut corners and to me it's a simple greed which doesn't end well.
> 
> I know many people who bought pre owned and many of them are on this forum but these all are educated purchases by collectors who knew what they were doing and were not chasing for unbelievable deals...
> I'm a severe fan of retired pieces myself but I think it's wise to buy at the store whenever you can.


So agree with all this. What’s especially painful is first timers trying to find “a good deal” on preloved. And you see them walking straight into a trap.  And you tell them and they don’t wanna hear it.


----------



## Ylesiya

EpiFanatic said:


> So agree with all this. What’s especially painful is first timers trying to find “a good deal” on preloved. And you see them walking straight into a trap.  And you tell them and they don’t wanna hear it.



To me it's not even a trap but an immediate red flag which activates my scam sensors. Why is this person selling so cheap? Yes sometimes people need money urgently but such pieces can be priced like a few hundreds dollars lower (ok 500 maybe but not 1500!) than normal resale price and they will be gone right away. Why is it still for sale and not grabbed by other experienced buyers who are surely stalking eBay and other sites for collectibles and other deals?  but these thoughts don't cross the minds of some people.



mommafahionista said:


> I think the best way to insure that when you buy a preloved piece, is to spend the money to have it authenticated by the maison directly. Any reputable reseller will offer a refund if the piece is found to be unauthentic, even if they were duped into purchasing it. If they give any excuse or reason why they cannot, then that says everything about the piece, and the seller’s integrity. After having my eyes opened to the pervasion of super fakes via this thread, I will be authenticating any/all my pre loved pieces. The piece of mind will be worth it



To me it makes sense when you are buying some heritage or a really expensive rare piece to spend extra 1800 USD. If you are buying just a MOP VA pendant, either buy from a trustworthy reputable reseller, or a friend who personally bought the item from the store (I did so recently with my onyx bracelet) or from the store. Or from anywhere if you are a pro yourself.

My 20 motif onyx was bought by me without any documents at all but from a reputable reseller at an amazing price (about 50% off the retail in amazing condition). This piece was so obviously authentic so I actually didn't need to bother but I brought it to VCA anyway and paid to extend it to 5 cm which I do with all my necklaces. The fact that they do work on it is pretty much guarantee the item is authentic. VCA indicates in their paperwork that it's not a substitute for a certificate of authenticity and my guess is that mistakes MAY happen but I have never heard of VCA doing the alterations work on a fake piece.


----------



## Hanash

Another perspective on this thread. I’m not sure what to make of it - a friend of mine likes the designs of Van Cleef Alhambra but has them made in 22 Ct gold by her jeweller - as she feels the higher grade of gold is a better long term investment. She can resell at any point to any jeweller. The jeweller does not try to pass them off as VCA dupes  - there are no brand markings etc. except the gold hallmark -  and the cost of making them is much lower than buying the original VCA.  I understood her logic - it is a brave person who buys VCA second hand ( as we see even with all documents you can get stung!) so it can be tricky to resell - and with this approach you have an investment in the gold price - which can easily be sold to any jeweller  - and it’s less expensive than VCA who have a huge markup compared to the value of gold used.


----------



## Glitterbomb

I have a friend who commissioned a jeweler to make convincing looking replicas of the full pave love Cartier bracelets and she offered to let me wear them for a few hours to see what I thought of them. They were still pretty expensive (around $6,000 a bracelet, made with real gold and real diamonds), but of course much less compared to $45,000 for the authentic version. At first I was honestly pretty impressed with the appearance and weight of them, but after examining them closer I started noticing differences between my authentic bracelets and the reps she purchased. They also had hallmarks and signatures inside them which kinda bothered me.

I wore them for a few hours and I just could not get used to it. Knowing I was wearing replicas bothered me...it didn't feel good. It didn't make me feel the same way that I feel wearing my authentic pieces. Anyone that saw me wearing them would've thought they were my authentic bracelets, I'm sure, but _I knew._ It's just not for me.

However....I believe more than ever now that many influencers and even actual celebrities have closets, youtube videos, and instagram posts full of high-end replicas. You just can't tell unless you closely examine these pieces in person and have an authentic version to directly compare it with. If my friend told me she bought authentic pave Cartier bracelets and I just looked at her bracelets while she wore them, I would've without a doubt believed they were real.


----------



## mommafahionista

Hanash said:


> Another perspective on this thread. I’m not sure what to make of it - a friend of mine likes the designs of Van Cleef Alhambra but has them made in 22 Ct gold by her jeweller - as she feels the higher grade of gold is a better long term investment. She can resell at any point to any jeweller. The jeweller does not try to pass them off as VCA dupes  - there are no brand markings etc. except the gold hallmark -  and the cost of making them is much lower than buying the original VCA.  I understood her logic - it is a brave person who buys VCA second hand ( as we see even with all documents you can get stung!) so it can be tricky to resell - and with this approach you have an investment in the gold price - which can easily be sold to any jeweller  - and it’s less expensive than VCA who have a huge markup compared to the value of gold used.


I’m pretty sure her pieces will not hold any more value than 18K, just for the materials. The fact is, she is wearing a dupe and has no qualms about it. Hopefully she doesn’t try to pass it off as real. That’s where the integrity issue comes in. Clover shaped jewelry is ubiquitous. Copying the VCA design exactly, is only done by people who want the real thing but are not able to get it for whatever the reason. I really don’t think people who REALLY are wealthy would buy a dupe. Individuals who do, use chicanery to portray an image of someone whom they are not.


----------



## mommafahionista

Glitterbomb said:


> I have a friend who commissioned a jeweler to make convincing looking replicas of the full pave love Cartier bracelets and she offered to let me wear them for a few hours to see what I thought of them. They were still pretty expensive (around $6,000 a bracelet, made with real gold and real diamonds), but of course much less compared to $45,000 for the authentic version. At first I was honestly pretty impressed with the appearance and weight of them, but after examining them closer I started noticing differences between my authentic bracelets and the reps she purchased. They also had hallmarks and signatures inside them which kinda bothered me.
> 
> I wore them for a few hours and I just could not get used to it. Knowing I was wearing replicas bothered me...it didn't feel good. It didn't make me feel the same way that I feel wearing my authentic pieces. Anyone that saw me wearing them would've thought they were my authentic bracelets, I'm sure, but _I knew._ It's just not for me.
> 
> However....I believe more than ever now that many influencers and even actual celebrities have closets, youtube videos, and instagram posts full of high-end replicas. You just can't tell unless you closely examine these pieces in person and have an authentic version to directly compare it with. If my friend told me she bought authentic pave Cartier bracelets and I just looked at her bracelets while she wore them, I would've without a doubt believed they were real.


I wonder if her jeweler she commissioned is from the Covered Bazaar?


----------



## DeryaHm

Hanash said:


> Another perspective on this thread. I’m not sure what to make of it - a friend of mine likes the designs of Van Cleef Alhambra but has them made in 22 Ct gold by her jeweller - as she feels the higher grade of gold is a better long term investment. She can resell at any point to any jeweller. The jeweller does not try to pass them off as VCA dupes  - there are no brand markings etc. except the gold hallmark -  and the cost of making them is much lower than buying the original VCA.  I understood her logic - it is a brave person who buys VCA second hand ( as we see even with all documents you can get stung!) so it can be tricky to resell - and with this approach you have an investment in the gold price - which can easily be sold to any jeweller  - and it’s less expensive than VCA who have a huge markup compared to the value of gold used.



This made me smile and think of certain relatives this morning who would definitely do this


----------



## Ylesiya

Hanash said:


> Another perspective on this thread. I’m not sure what to make of it - a friend of mine likes the designs of Van Cleef Alhambra but has them made in 22 Ct gold by her jeweller - as she feels the higher grade of gold is a better long term investment. She can resell at any point to any jeweller. The jeweller does not try to pass them off as VCA dupes  - there are no brand markings etc. except the gold hallmark -  and the cost of making them is much lower than buying the original VCA.  I understood her logic - it is a brave person who buys VCA second hand ( as we see even with all documents you can get stung!) so it can be tricky to resell - and with this approach you have an investment in the gold price - which can easily be sold to any jeweller  - and it’s less expensive than VCA who have a huge markup compared to the value of gold used.



People who bought turquoise pieces 10 years ago are probably quietly chucking on this)))

Honestly never had any issues selling my pieces, when there was such a need.

Also to me it depends on how close the replicas are to the original. Some are obviously fake and could more like be called "clover design", others are very convincing and no matter what the excuse is they are counterfeits even if they don't have any markings - they are made to make other people think one is wearing vca jewellery. And from the value perspective VCA actually holds it better than any other jewellery brand IMHO. As has been discussed many times here it's not about gold and it's weight, it's about history, brand, culture and values.


----------



## etoupebirkin

For me personally, for VCA, I’d rather not buy an item than buy a fake.

I tried on and really liked the VCA 20-motif, PG/GMOP/Diamond necklace. It’s $61.5K. If I bought it, my jewelry budget would be expended for a good bit. For kicks and giggles, I got a quote on a high quality fake — $18,875.00. That’s a $43K difference without tax.

I’ve mulled it over and I think I’d rather not buy an item, than buy a fake.


----------



## 880

Hanash said:


> Another perspective on this thread. I’m not sure what to make of it - a friend of mine likes the designs of Van Cleef Alhambra but has them made in 22 Ct gold by her jeweller - as she feels the higher grade of gold is a better long term investment. She can resell at any point to any jeweller. The jeweller does not try to pass them off as VCA dupes  - there are no brand markings etc. except the gold hallmark -  and the cost of making them is much lower than buying the original VCA.  I understood her logic - it is a brave person who buys VCA second hand ( as we see even with all documents you can get stung!) so it can be tricky to resell - and with this approach you have an investment in the gold price - which can easily be sold to any jeweller  - and it’s less expensive than VCA who have a huge markup compared to the value of gold used.


I have wealthy relatives (multiple luxury homes, cars, etc) who do this. They don’t try to pass them off as real, but rather buy multiples to pass around to nieces and assorted as trinkets. And they openly discuss that theyre not real brand but a good buy and a fun fashion thing. No serial number, no VCA stamp. No logos. They also may have made comments that I’m an idiot for buying at the boutique bc to their mind, MOP or colored stone clovers aren’t real jewelry anyway. They are proud of the dupe. And, if they like a place, they will introduce their friends.

 I made a comment to one of them why buy this dupe. and she responded, well if I don’t like it, I dont want to be stuck with the real thing.  When I said, if you don’t like it, don’t buy it, this literally hadn’t occurred to her. To them it’s like buying a skirt. If they like it, they’ll order one in every color and multiples for sisters, nieces, cousins. If they don’t like it, they just give away to someone (who knows it’s a dupe). Culturally no one would think of reselling bc they literally don’t know how to use the internet. I used TRR once to sell a bunch of premier designer stuff, and when a family memebr found out, she was aghast. She said, don’t do that, your cousins daughter; second cousin once removed; or niece would like that.  To her, even giving it to a personal assistant or favorite maid would be better. I gave up lol. This may be cultural, but i don’t even try to persuade any member of my family who is older otherwise.  JMO and YMMV.

*what I would hate to see is someone who wants the real VCA brand and gets lured in by a deal that is too good to be true, or by a replica that purports to be real VCA. If a deal is too good to be true, then it is.*


----------



## mommafahionista

This article couldn't be more timely. Although, it pertains to bags/clothing, the premise is the same. https://www.purseblog.com/report/wh...wsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mailer


----------



## Ylesiya

etoupebirkin said:


> For me personally, for VCA, I’d rather not buy an item than buy a fake.
> 
> I tried on and really liked the VCA 20-motif, PG/GMOP/Diamond necklace. It’s $61.5K. If I bought it, my jewelry budget would be expended for a good bit. For kicks and giggles, I got a quote on a high quality fake — $18,875.00. That’s a $43K difference without tax.
> 
> I’ve mulled it over and I think I’d rather not buy an item, than buy a fake.



I have the same issue with the Lotus ring. Not only it's not available at the stores at all these days, I have to stop buying other pieces and save for it which one day I'll probably do but there were so many other really gorgeous pieces readily available at the store. 

A high grade replica of this ring would be a fraction of the retail price based on the CAD design but I just can't bear the thought of wearing something I know looks like VCA but it's not. I would never want to walk into the boutique with it as well obviously. People would probably compliment the ring, some would recognise the brand and compliment even more - that would make me feel just awful. What do you do: take compliments or tell everyone "oh it's a replica"? I'm not even talking about how unethical this is. Just makes me wonder about what's going on in the heads of the people who actually do it.


----------



## etoupebirkin

Ylesiya said:


> I have the same issue with the Lotus ring. Not only it's not available at the stores at all these days, I have to stop buying other pieces and save for it which one day I'll probably do but there were so many other really gorgeous pieces readily available at the store.
> 
> A high grade replica of this ring would be a fraction of the retail price based on the CAD design but I just can't bear the thought of wearing something I know looks like VCA but it's not. I would never want to walk into the boutique with it as well obviously. People would probably compliment the ring, some would recognise the brand and compliment even more - that would make me feel just awful. What do you do: take compliments or tell everyone "oh it's a replica"? I'm not even talking about how unethical this is. Just makes me wonder about what's going on in the heads of the people who actually do it.


EXACTLY!!!
I have collected Hermes since I was 19. VCA for 10-15 years. All my pieces are authentic. Knowingly buying a fake VCA / Hermes would ruin what I’ve built over 40 years. And. That. Means. Something.

When, my jewelry/handbags passes down to my kids, they will receive items of value.


----------



## Glitterbomb

mommafahionista said:


> I wonder if her jeweler she commissioned is from the Covered Bazaar?


I honestly don't know what this means


----------



## Glitterbomb

mommafahionista said:


> I’m pretty sure her pieces will not hold any more value than 18K, just for the materials. The fact is, she is wearing a dupe and has no qualms about it. Hopefully she doesn’t try to pass it off as real. That’s where the integrity issue comes in. Clover shaped jewelry is ubiquitous. Copying the VCA design exactly, is only done by people who want the real thing but are not able to get it for whatever the reason. I really don’t think people who REALLY are wealthy would buy a dupe. Individuals who do, use chicanery to portray an image of someone whom they are not.


I disagree with this - there definitely are very wealthy people intentionally buying dupes. I've seen pictures & videos of wealthy celebrities with fake bags. Not every wealthy person wants to spend their money on jewelry, handbags, etc. They use their wealth, fame, and status as a shield - knowing that no one will ever imagine they have replicas as they certainly have the means to buy the real thing.


----------



## DS2006

True about the very wealthy buying fakes!  I read a very interesting article primarily about fake Chanel purses.  There are excellent fakes for several hundred dollars, and many wealthy people don't care to pay the price for the authentic ones.


----------



## lucky7355

DS2006 said:


> True about the very wealthy buying fakes!  I read a very interesting article primarily about fake Chanel purses.  There are excellent fakes for several hundred dollars, and many wealthy people don't care to pay the price for the authentic ones.


True! There’s many people who can afford to buy any Chanel or Hermes or VCA piece, but the idea of waiting to be “offered” something that they may not even want before they can get what they do want puts a bad taste in their mouth. They’re never going to wait in line to spend money or play the game with offers. 

For $600, they can buy a high tier fake CF or 18k 5 motif VCA, $1100 gets them a B30, $900 for a K28. All at a quality that would be very difficult to distinguish from the real thing. 

They get they color they want, the materials they want, and it’s delivered to their door without the back and forth of trying to schmooze an SA over dozens of visits trying to get the hard to obtain items. They can custom order any combination without hitting a spending threshold and getting approval from corporate.

The luxury goods market is alienating these kind of folks left and right by making them jump through hoops.


----------



## mommafahionista

lucky7355 said:


> True! There’s many people who can afford to buy any Chanel or Hermes or VCA piece, but the idea of waiting to be “offered” something that they may not even want before they can get what they do want puts a bad taste in their mouth. They’re never going to wait in line to spend money or play the game with offers.
> 
> For $600, they can buy a high tier fake CF or 18k 5 motif VCA, $1100 gets them a B30, $900 for a K28. All at a quality that would be very difficult to distinguish from the real thing.
> 
> They get they color they want, the materials they want, and it’s delivered to their door without the back and forth of trying to schmooze an SA over dozens of visits trying to get the hard to obtain items. They can custom order any combination without hitting a spending threshold and getting approval from corporate.
> 
> The luxury goods market is alienating these kind of folks left and right by making them jump through hoops.


If these people are turned off by the brand's method of attaining a coveted piece, then why support the brand’s image by buying a fake? Instead of buying a counterfeit piece that holds $0 value, buy second hand and get it verified by the maison. The price they pay for these pieces, I'm sure, cost much more than the raw materials to make them. They won't get their money back selling it as scrap metal. And who knows if the materials are even genuine. 

These "RepLadies" are *unwittingly* contributing to the demand of Designer goods by “advertising” the Designers' products (albeit fake). This, *inadvertently*, drives up the demand and value of authentic pieces (IMO); a good thing for those who own genuine pieces.  I would also argue, *increasing* the price of the fakes that they so enjoy getting at a "discount" by creating a demand for them. Why own 4 fakes, but instead have one genuine piece that will hold its value. 

If I saw someone wearing very limited edition pieces, or hard to get items, I would totally ask them how they scored it. I'd want details of who their SA was (in hopes of getting an 'in'), how long they had to wait, etc. Anything to increase my chances of getting a coveted item.


----------



## Mayacamas

lucky7355 said:


> True! There’s many people who can afford to buy any Chanel or Hermes or VCA piece, but the idea of waiting to be “offered” something that they may not even want before they can get what they do want puts a bad taste in their mouth. They’re never going to wait in line to spend money or play the game with offers.
> 
> For $600, they can buy a high tier fake CF or 18k 5 motif VCA, $1100 gets them a B30, $900 for a K28. All at a quality that would be very difficult to distinguish from the real thing.
> 
> They get they color they want, the materials they want, and it’s delivered to their door without the back and forth of trying to schmooze an SA over dozens of visits trying to get the hard to obtain items. They can custom order any combination without hitting a spending threshold and getting approval from corporate.
> 
> The luxury goods market is alienating these kind of folks left and right by making them jump through hoops.


I’ll be honest - I’ve read this forum several times and of all the comments that have been posted this one hits the closest to home.


----------



## Hanash

Glitterbomb said:


> I honestly don't know what this means


I think Turkey is well known for very high quality fakes. The answer is no - it is their family jeweller. As mentioned in certain cultures 22K gold is much more highly regarded than 18K gold. In response to an earlier post the value of the gold itself would be worth more than any 18K gold jewellery piece and woul always be maintained and resellable to any jeweller. This is not always the case with VCA jewellery which can be hard to sell and a value of an item is only worth what a buyer would pay for it - I personally would not buy any pre-owned VCA item as it is so difficult to authenticate and in some cases the stones wear badly, esp malachite.


----------



## Hanash

I do agree with those commenting on how they would feel a fraud wearing replica VCA jewellery. I do not have any pieces yet but I can concur by an analogy with bags - I would rather have the real deal rather than a replica - and my conscience would not let me carry one. I guess people feel the same when they are invested in the VCA brand. Totally understand the sentiment.


----------



## 880

lucky7355 said:


> There’s many people who can afford to buy any Chanel or Hermes or VCA piece, but the idea of waiting to be “offered” something that they may not even want before they can get what they do want puts a bad taste in their mouth. They’re never going to wait in line to spend money or play the game with offers.





Mayacamas said:


> I’ll be honest - I’ve read this forum several times and of all the comments that have been posted this one hits the closest to home.


My mom owns a ton of premier designer stuff already (mainly stuff I pick for her bc she doesn’t like to figure out style or fit).  Her favorite bag happens to be a cross body nylon le sport sac which she drapes over her favorite TJ Maxx soft flannel shirt. Last year for her 75th birthday, I bought her a craie togo 30B GHW. She clips four phones onto it, and I’m sure she’s destroyed it with ink marks bc she’s absent minded and doesnt think about stuff like that. 

But, where I buy VCA or other premier jewelry or RTW or Hermes, she happens to like going to auctions or dealers to buy expensive mid century art or fancy real estate. She also loves deals.  Since she’s my mom,  I just shut up when she says I’m extravagant for buying MOP at VCA.

The truth is there are many different kinds of wealthy people


----------



## marbella8

880 said:


> My mom owns a ton of premier designer stuff already (mainly stuff I pick for her bc she doesn’t like to figure out style or fit).  Her favorite bag happens to be a cross body nylon le sport sac which she drapes over her favorite TJ Maxx soft flannel shirt. Last year for her 75th birthday, I bought her a craie togo 30B GHW. She clips four phones onto it, and I’m sure she’s destroyed it with ink marks bc she’s absent minded and doesnt think about stuff like that.
> 
> But, where I buy VCA or other premier jewelry or RTW or Hermes, she happens to like going to auctions or dealers to buy expensive mid century art or fancy real estate. She also loves deals.  Since she’s my mom,  I just shut up when she says I’m extravagant for buying MOP at VCA.
> 
> The truth is there are many different kinds of wealthy people



Yes- I couldn’t agree more. My mom is the same. She had me buy her one Hermes Kelly which pains me to watch as it’s box and she treats it with such non care, as it should be I guess, lol.

She loves real jewelry, lol, and can’t understand my love of VCA, as the Alhambra motifs all look the same, and if it’s a stone, it’s never a precious stone, unless it’s pave, and then so overpriced for diamonds. For her, she loves PIECES. I respect it and beg to differ, lol!


----------



## DS2006

I will say that I can't bear to wear fake jewelry and am very particular about quality. But a purse is mostly a utilitarian piece for me (although I do try to buy styles I like). If I bought a Birkin or Chanel CF, I guess they'd be enshrined in my closet, because I couldn't bear to actually use them on a daily basis and potentially damage them.  My world is also too casual to justify $10k+ purses, and while I NEVER plan to buy a fake, I'd actually feel freer to USE a fake more than one that costs 15-20 times more. Instead of fakes, I just buy purses in the $500-2500 range. My luxury buying is pretty much limited to jewelry!

Let me add, though, I do enjoy seeing all the beautiful luxury purses from members here!


----------



## Ylesiya

DS2006 said:


> I will say that I can't bear to wear fake jewelry and am very particular about quality. But a purse is mostly a utilitarian piece for me (although I do try to buy styles I like). If I bought a Birkin or Chanel CF, I guess they'd be enshrined in my closet, because I couldn't bear to actually use them on a daily basis and potentially damage them.  My world is also too casual to justify $10k+ purses, and while I NEVER plan to buy a fake, I'd actually feel freer to USE a fake more than one that costs 15-20 times more. Instead of fakes, I just buy purses in the $500-2500 range. My luxury buying is pretty much limited to jewelry!
> 
> Let me add, though, I do enjoy seeing all the beautiful luxury purses from members here!



I'm totally the same. My lifestyle with young kids prohibits use of expensive bags as I'm paranoid about maintenance and scratches. Carrying an expensive bag only when I occasionally go out feels like an overkill to me plus in my country one has to store such things very carefully otherwise the climate will destroy the bag: I've seen a lot of pre owned luxury bags which even developed mold!

This is why I go the same way: I buy jewellery which is an easy maintenance and easy storage, some pieces I can wear daily and casually like earrings and pendants, some I wear only when I'm out alone or for an event and I'm fine with that.

But never it had crossed my mind to go and get a counterfeit bag and carry it around like it's authentic! Plus I'm pretty sure that people with a good eye would spot a fake since a lot of people here own Hermes and/or Chanel but that's not the main reason. It just feels so below par, especially while collecting all this jewellery and learning to authenticate. I don't mean to show off but I personally authenticate Chanel jewellery very well and also other jewellery brands and partially this made me appreciate the brands and all the work they are doing, amount of thinking that goes into each piece, something we don't really see or recognise but it's there and that's what got them to where they are plus clever marketing, service, etc.
I buy cheaper (but not cheap) bags which I can just wear and not worry too much about whether I scuffed it or not or whether my kids knocked it off the chair etc. 

On the point of dupes now I understand why Cardi B posted all these pics of her buying this jewellery at the boutique lol   
I highly doubt that real celebrities (not the third tier "influencers" who just want to feel important) have to go through the normal "mortal" process to buy a piece, it's such an advertisement for the brand when they wear around their merchandise.


----------



## EpiFanatic

Nvm


----------



## EpiFanatic

Nvm


----------



## mommafahionista

saw this in the comments from the article in Purseblog. Discusses a case in Turkey and the lengths the gangs went through and all the dirty money. They trick legitimate businesses into selling their stuff. Also discusses how they were following the Boston Bomber brothers and how they used the money from fakes to buy the explosives that ended up killing and maiming people.




"How fake handbags fund terrorism and organized crime​What's the harm in buying a knock-off purse or a fake designer watch? According to counterfeit investigator Alastair Gray, fakes like these fund terrorism and organized crime. Learn more about the trillion-dollar underground economy of counterfeiting -- from the criminal organizations that run it to the child labor they use to produce its goods -- as well as measures you can take to help stop it. "Let's shine a light on the dark forces of counterfeiting that are hiding in plain sight," Gray says."


----------



## AlexaKate

880 said:


> I have wealthy relatives (multiple luxury homes, cars, etc) who do this. They don’t try to pass them off as real, but rather buy multiples to pass around to nieces and assorted as trinkets. And they openly discuss that theyre not real brand but a good buy and a fun fashion thing. No serial number, no VCA stamp. No logos. They also may have made comments that I’m an idiot for buying at the boutique bc to their mind, MOP or colored stone clovers aren’t real jewelry anyway. They are proud of the dupe. And, if they like a place, they will introduce their friends.
> 
> I made a comment to one of them why buy this dupe. and she responded, well if I don’t like it, I dont want to be stuck with the real thing.  When I said, if you don’t like it, don’t buy it, this literally hadn’t occurred to her. To them it’s like buying a skirt. If they like it, they’ll order one in every color and multiples for sisters, nieces, cousins. If they don’t like it, they just give away to someone (who knows it’s a dupe). Culturally no one would think of reselling bc they literally don’t know how to use the internet. I used TRR once to sell a bunch of premier designer stuff, and when a family memebr found out, she was aghast. She said, don’t do that, your cousins daughter; second cousin once removed; or niece would like that.  To her, even giving it to a personal assistant or favorite maid would be better. I gave up lol. This may be cultural, but i don’t even try to persuade any member of my family who is older otherwise.  JMO and YMMV.
> 
> *what I would hate to see is someone who wants the real VCA brand and gets lured in by a deal that is too good to be true, or by a replica that purports to be real VCA. If a deal is too good to be true, then it is.*


I know ppl who’s mind is the same lol they just think brand is a way to scam ppl the money and honestly mop and gemstones and even diamonds don’t worth that much, but they have millions of dollars of property, stock and authentic business lol

Another woman I know is she would commissioned her trusted jeweller her vca pieces to get a replica herself so she can wear it to holiday without worrying too much about it, she showed me the fake one when worn on the arms you literally cannot tell the difference until you hold it in your hand which is lighter in weight than the real deal, her jeweller is using DEF color diamonds with at least VS1 clarity so the bling is so real, she said if she doesn’t like it she can ask them to do a reset of the diamonds and thro away the mop and gemstone which to her is “cheap stuff”


----------



## AlexaKate

mommafahionista said:


> saw this in the comments from the article in Purseblog. Discusses a case in Turkey and the lengths the gangs went through and all the dirty money. They trick legitimate businesses into selling their stuff. Also discusses how they were following the Boston Bomber brothers and how they used the money from fakes to buy the explosives that ended up killing and maiming people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "How fake handbags fund terrorism and organized crime​What's the harm in buying a knock-off purse or a fake designer watch? According to counterfeit investigator Alastair Gray, fakes like these fund terrorism and organized crime. Learn more about the trillion-dollar underground economy of counterfeiting -- from the criminal organizations that run it to the child labor they use to produce its goods -- as well as measures you can take to help stop it. "Let's shine a light on the dark forces of counterfeiting that are hiding in plain sight," Gray says."



Not trying to defend the fake market, but crime is not only limited to fakes, it is well known that ppl launder money through buying luxury, they almost goes hand in hand  smuggling a coloured diamond/ jewellery, watches out of country is easier than wiring big sum of money out of town when there are foreign currency restrictions. No judgement from me for ppl wearing fake, so long as she was not scammed into thinking that it’s the authentic piece and pay for such price as well


----------



## lucky7355

AlexaKate said:


> Not trying to defend the fake market, but crime is not only limited to fakes, it is well known that ppl launder money through buying luxury, they almost goes hand in hand  smuggling a coloured diamond/ jewellery, watches out of country is easier than wiring big sum of money out of town when there are foreign currency restrictions. No judgement from me for ppl wearing fake, so long as she was not scammed into thinking that it’s the authentic piece and pay for such price as well


Yeah, the margins on owning operating a fake purse making business and getting skilled craftsmen to replicate various designs is not going to profit anywhere near the ballpark of profit that you’d get from manufacturing/selling drugs. That’s what really funds war and terrorism. The folks making fake Birkins are just funding their second house.

With drugs there’s low barrier to entry, low-skilled folks that you can pay with the product, and you’re basically printing money the margins are so wide, the only issues are how to smuggle the drugs and launder the money. They could lose half their product and be fine. If the fake purse factory loses half their product, they may be out of business. 

You know what’s free? Human trafficking. What’s not free? Buying high-end leather, investing in sewing equipment, hiring skilled artisans, etc. Again, human trafficking is another low barrier activity, no one is going to opt to make Firkins if they’re trying to find terrorism. The ROI is not nearly as profitable as the more hardcore illegal activities. 

Why buy stuff to resell and build a customer base when you can just steal and scam money out of people with just a phone or computer? 

I took an anti-terrorism course for a few months last year. Super interesting, but there’s tons of blanket statements about what funds terrorism.


----------



## Luxencoffee

AlexaKate said:


> Not trying to defend the fake market, but crime is not only limited to fakes, it is well known that ppl launder money through buying luxury, they almost goes hand in hand  smuggling a coloured diamond/ jewellery, watches out of country is easier than wiring big sum of money out of town when there are foreign currency restrictions. No judgement from me for ppl wearing fake, so long as she was not scammed into thinking that it’s the authentic piece and pay for such price as well



I was getting ready to say the same thing.
There are gazillion and one ways to launder money and its not exclusively just through replica bags. Hello random art that looks like crap and gets “sold” for billions of dollars…
I have zero judgement for people wearing fake. Why should it bother anyone that a random person you know nothing about on the street is wearing a fake vs. real thing.
If you want the satisfaction of buying from a boutique go for it. Someone else just wants the name for whatever reason and are paying fraction of the cost and are okie to get it from somewhere else. This shouldnt ruffle anyones feathers.
Whether folks on here like it or not super fakes are incredibly hard to tell apart from real things now. It is what it is.
And if you are hawking bags on the streets just to have the satisfaction that yours is real and they have a fake .. then idk I feel like there is bigger internal reflection to do there lolll


----------



## tenshix

Luxencoffee said:


> I was getting ready to say the same thing.
> There are gazillion and one ways to launder money and its not exclusively just through replica bags. Hello random art that looks like crap and gets “sold” for billions of dollars…
> I have zero judgement for people wearing fake. Why should it bother anyone that a random person you know nothing about on the street is wearing a fake vs. real thing.
> If you want the satisfaction of buying from a boutique go for it. Someone else just wants the name for whatever reason and are paying fraction of the cost and are okie to get it from somewhere else. This shouldnt ruffle anyones feathers.
> Whether folks on here like it or not super fakes are incredibly hard to tell apart from real things now. It is what it is.
> And if you are hawking bags on the streets just to have the satisfaction that yours is real and they have a fake .. then idk I feel like there is bigger internal reflection to do there lolll



I don’t think anyone here was ‘hawking on bags on the streets’; just wanted to clarify that this thread is discussing real vs fake VCA jewelry and many of us take issue with the fakes because they flood the second hand market and fool a lot of unsuspecting buyers. Some are sold at even higher markups than the retail for fakes of limited edition pieces. It’s more of an ethical issue in that sense and I don’t think anyone here enjoys to be scammed.

But for the people who knowingly buy fakes, that’s entirely their preference and choice. So long as they don’t try to sell it as the real pieces there is no issue


----------



## Luxencoffee

I agree with you on that. If they are being passed on as real that is problematic. And I understand the ethical side of it


----------



## missie1

Luxencoffee said:


> I was getting ready to say the same thing.
> There are gazillion and one ways to launder money and its not exclusively just through replica bags. Hello random art that looks like crap and gets “sold” for billions of dollars…
> I have zero judgement for people wearing fake. Why should it bother anyone that a random person you know nothing about on the street is wearing a fake vs. real thing.
> If you want the satisfaction of buying from a boutique go for it. Someone else just wants the name for whatever reason and are paying fraction of the cost and are okie to get it from somewhere else. This shouldnt ruffle anyones feathers.
> Whether folks on here like it or not super fakes are incredibly hard to tell apart from real things now. It is what it is.
> And if you are hawking bags on the streets just to have the satisfaction that yours is real and they have a fake .. then idk I feel like there is bigger internal reflection to do there lolll


It bothers some of us because these superfakes are often sold under the pretense of being authentic with fake serial numbers lifted from authentic pieces to unsuspecting buyers.  These are high priced items so it definitely bothers me for anyone to potentially duped out of thousands of dollars


----------



## eletons

880 said:


> My mom owns a ton of premier designer stuff already (mainly stuff I pick for her bc she doesn’t like to figure out style or fit).  Her favorite bag happens to be a cross body nylon le sport sac which she drapes over her favorite TJ Maxx soft flannel shirt. Last year for her 75th birthday, I bought her a craie togo 30B GHW. She clips four phones onto it, and I’m sure she’s destroyed it with ink marks bc she’s absent minded and doesnt think about stuff like that.
> 
> But, where I buy VCA or other premier jewelry or RTW or Hermes, she happens to like going to auctions or dealers to buy expensive mid century art or fancy real estate. She also loves deals.  Since she’s my mom,  I just shut up when she says I’m extravagant for buying MOP at VCA.
> 
> The truth is there are many different kinds of wealthy people


You are very lucky to have a loved one who likes collecting art pieces. They are worth collecting when one knows how to distinguish the authentic ones from the fake ones. Also, collecting arts from modern artists means supporting them and supporting arts.


----------



## etoupebirkin

I started this thread to inform TPFers that the fakes were scarily close to real VCA and to be extremely cautious when buying VCA in the secondary market.

Personally, I have decided not to buy fake/replica VCA. I work in a creative field. My DH is an attorney. Intellectual property theft is wrong. Manufacturers of exact replicas are stealing VCA’s intellectual property.

Just because intellectual property theft happens all the time does not make it right. 

I know people who have purchased high end fake VCA with the serial numbers etc. And at some small level, it does color my judgment of them as people, especially if they can afford the real thing.


----------



## eletons

etoupebirkin said:


> I started this thread to inform TPFers that the fakes were scarily close to real VCA and to be extremely cautious when buying VCA in the secondary market.
> 
> Personally, I have decided not to buy fake/replica VCA. I work in a creative field. My DH is an attorney. Intellectual property theft is wrong. Manufacturers of exact replicas are stealing VCA’s intellectual property.
> 
> Just because intellectual property theft happens all the time does not make it right.
> 
> I know people who have purchased high end fake VCA with the serial numbers etc. And at some small level, it does color my judgment of them as people, especially if they can afford the real thing.


I was absent from this forum for a while and upon return, I am shocked to discover that members here actually encourage other members here to wear fakes without shame. When plagiarism is not ok in university or any fields, I don't know how it's ok to wear a fake and see it as no one else's business.


----------



## 880

eletons said:


> I was absent from this forum for a while and upon return, I am shocked to discover that members here actually encourage other members here to wear fakes without shame. When plagiarism is not ok in university or any fields, I don't know how it's ok to wear a fake and see it as no one else's business.


I don’t think anyone on TPF encourages members to wear fakes. For my part, I cannot help what family or friends do, but re VCA it is my understanding that it failed to register alhambra IP decades ago, and has not succeeded in deopfending it in international courts. (I would welcome clarification or correction on this if anyone knows it). My one alhambra six motif necklace c9me s from the boutique, and I’m considering pieces that are not so popular like the liane or buton dor line as future purchases


----------



## eletons

880 said:


> I don’t think anyone on TPF encourages members to wear fakes. For my part, I cannot help what family or friends do, but re VCA it is my understanding that it failed to register alhambra IP decades ago, and has not succeeded in deopfending it in international courts. (I would welcome clarification or correction on this if anyone knows it). My one alhambra six motif necklace c9me s from the boutique, and I’m considering pieces that are not so popular like the liane or buton dor line as future purchases


I read several posts in this thread and in another thread title 'my VCA is a superfakes, need help replacing ' the OP was wondering what to do with the potential superfakes and some said that she should keep it and get a Cartier necklace, this way, she can have both. Post number 7 by the way. Not sure if it has been edited now. 

We can see how the superfakes being sold as real are causing demages to people who want authentic pieces.


----------



## BigAkoya

880 said:


> I don’t think anyone on TPF encourages members to wear fakes. For my part, I cannot help what family or friends do, but re VCA it is my understanding that it failed to register alhambra IP decades ago, and has not succeeded in deopfending it in international courts. (I would welcome clarification or correction on this if anyone knows it). My one alhambra six motif necklace c9me s from the boutique, and I’m considering pieces that are not so popular like the liane or buton dor line as future purchases


You are correct.  VCA has tried and failed.  The problem is VCA has not proven the design is unique and distinctive.  The design is basically a quatrefoil which has been used for nearly two milleniums (it started as a religious symbol): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatrefoil

The use of a quatrefoil in jewelry goes back to ancient times.  If you ever go to museums and look at ancient jewelry, you could almost say "hey, there's VCA Alhambra  ).  I think VCA used the quatrefoil design in some of their pieces in the 1920s.  Then they came out with the Alhambra line in the 1960s.

VCA's marketing team calls it a four leaf clover which I think has not helped their case.  Four leaf clovers also are not distinctive, they are everywhere.  That's why claiming the design is a new distinct design has been hard for VCA.  Who knows what will happen.

I agree with you on getting somes non-Alhambra pieces.  If you want more artistic pieces, the others lines are beautiful.


----------



## missie1

eletons said:


> I read several posts in this thread and in another thread title 'my VCA is a superfakes, need help replacing ' the OP was wondering what to do with the potential superfakes and some said that she should keep it and get a Cartier necklace, this way, she can have both. Post number 7 by the way. Not sure if it has been edited now.
> 
> We can see how the superfakes being sold as real are causing demages to people who want authentic pieces.


What really got me was that she paid nothing for it so it wasn’t even a loss to her and she considered still wearing it.


----------



## BigAkoya

880 said:


> I don’t think anyone on TPF encourages members to wear fakes. For my part, I cannot help what family or friends do, but re VCA it is my understanding that it failed to register alhambra IP decades ago, and has not succeeded in deopfending it in international courts. (I would welcome clarification or correction on this if anyone knows it). My one alhambra six motif necklace c9me s from the boutique, and I’m considering pieces that are not so popular like the liane or buton dor line as future purchases


One more comment I want to add… the name Alhambra is 100% copied from the namesake Alhambra fortress in Granada.  There are tons of quatrefoils used there in the architecture/tile, which in reading about historic VCA is where they got the inspiration for this motif and hence called the line Alhambra.

In my personal view, I find it hard to claim VCA invented this.  It’s like me saying I invented the pave cross design.  But who knows, I’ve worked with IP attorneys and some of the perspectives and angles they come up with to make their case are quite creative.   









						Alhambra - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## DS2006

eletons said:


> I read several posts in this thread and in another thread title 'my VCA is a superfakes, need help replacing ' the OP was wondering what to do with the potential superfakes and some said that she should keep it and get a Cartier necklace, this way, she can have both. Post number 7 by the way. Not sure if it has been edited now.
> 
> We can see how the superfakes being sold as real are causing demages to people who want authentic pieces.


That was a case of someone being gifted a single Alhambra pendant. She didn't buy it or desire a fake pendant as far as I can recall, therefore, to me, she has no responsibility for doing damage to others as long as she doesn't try to resell it as real. I don't recall all the details, but if it had fake serial numbers, then yes, she should get them removed by her jeweler. If she wants to wear it, I see nothing wrong with wearing it since it was a gift. As Big A said, clovers definitely weren't invented by VCA.  I don't think anyone on this forum encourages anyone to buy fake VCA.


----------



## eletons

BigAkoya said:


> One more comment I want to add… the name Alhambra is 100% copied from the namesake Alhambra fortress in Granada.  There are tons of quatrefoils used there in the architecture/tile, which in reading about historic VCA is where they got the inspiration for this motif and hence called the line Alhambra.
> 
> In my personal view, I find it hard to claim VCA invented this.  It’s like me saying I invented the pave cross design.  But who knows, I’ve worked with IP attorneys and some of the perspectives and angles they come up with to make their case are quite creative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alhambra - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Not sure who own the Alhambra palace but if the owner decides to make a scene, maybe they can. Actually the motifs can be used by the palace to make souvenirs to sell in their shop. One thing I have noticed is that VCA doesn't have boutiques in Spain, maybe to avoid legal troubles? 

Just would like to know if David statue got made into a pendant, what would Galleria Accademia do? Maybe nothing otherwise all the shops that sell souvenirs of David figurine will be in trouble. 

Now the thing is the Clover motif has been made a signature of the VCA brand and usually when people see the motif, they associate it with the VCA brand instead of the Alhambra palace. 

Anyway, the fakes will definitely cause headache for the people who want to have authentic Alhambra pieces. 

Gifting fakes or passing down fakes cause trouble for the recipient.


----------



## DS2006

The quatrefoil didn't originate in the Alhambra palace, even though VCA used it as their inspiration. So I seriously doubt VCA is worried about Spain.









						Quatrefoil - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## BigAkoya

DS2006 said:


> The quatrefoil didn't originate in the Alhambra palace, even though VCA used it as their inspiration. So I seriously doubt VCA is worried about Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quatrefoil - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org


Yes, I agree.  The design is so ancient, like the cross. 

I read VCA saw the quatrefoils at the Alhambra palace, loved the design, made the necklace, and poof… called the line Alhambra, where they were “inspired” by it.


----------



## eletons

DS2006 said:


> That was a case of someone being gifted a single Alhambra pendant. She didn't buy it or desire a fake pendant as far as I can recall, therefore, to me, she has no responsibility for doing damage to others as long as she doesn't try to resell it as real. I don't recall all the details, but if it had fake serial numbers, then yes, she should get them removed by her jeweler. If she wants to wear it, I see nothing wrong with wearing it since it was a gift. As Big A said, clovers definitely weren't invented by VCA.  I don't think anyone on this forum encourages anyone to buy fake VCA.


I know she was gifted but knowingly wear a fake that has been gifted just send out the signal to the gift giver that it's ok to keep buying more fake and to gift fake. Not sure if the gift giver know about the status of the pendant though. 

At the same time, the potential gift givers wanting to buy gifts to others (not the OP)might feel ok to gift fakes after reading the posts since the recipient might still keep fakes. What's the point of gifting the authentic ones, right? That's encouraging fakes to circulate around and around the second hand market.


----------



## eletons

BigAkoya said:


> Yes, I agree.  The design is so ancient, like the cross.
> 
> I read VCA saw the quatrefoils at the Alhambra palace, loved the design, made the necklace, and poof… called the line Alhambra, where they were “inspired” by it.


Framing the shape with perlee might make a difference. The shape is universal but what about perlee surrounding the quatrefoils? 

Wondering if that's the reason why the pure collection in VCA is less seen or less desirable because the pure collection looks universal.


----------



## Luxencoffee

missie1 said:


> It bothers some of us because these superfakes are often sold under the pretense of being authentic with fake serial numbers lifted from authentic pieces to unsuspecting buyers.  These are high priced items so it definitely bothers me for anyone to potentially duped out of thousands of dollars


 People need to do their own due diligence for that. Like anyone would for buying a house, business, collective art pieces etc etc
If your friends or family reach out to you about second hand market the best anyone can do is educate them and warn them. 
And if they at that point chose to spend their own money on fakes vs. second hand vs real that’s upto them.


----------



## Luxencoffee

lucky7355 said:


> True! There’s many people who can afford to buy any Chanel or Hermes or VCA piece, but the idea of waiting to be “offered” something that they may not even want before they can get what they do want puts a bad taste in their mouth. They’re never going to wait in line to spend money or play the game with offers.
> 
> For $600, they can buy a high tier fake CF or 18k 5 motif VCA, $1100 gets them a B30, $900 for a K28. All at a quality that would be very difficult to distinguish from the real thing.
> 
> They get they color they want, the materials they want, and it’s delivered to their door without the back and forth of trying to schmooze an SA over dozens of visits trying to get the hard to obtain items. They can custom order any combination without hitting a spending threshold and getting approval from corporate.
> 
> The luxury goods market is alienating these kind of folks left and right by making them jump through hoops.


Exactly.Not to mention the super secret leather appointments you have to scoop out and essentially swear your bloodline to the brand and “show” loyalty.
Since when did buying any goods get to that point? How is that ok?
Let’s not pretent there is obvious exclusion in that method in itself. And if folks are finding back ways to get these items that are decent quality, welp, maybe Hermes should stop this circus.

For this very reason I refuse to shop at Hermes who down right advertise this behavior and think it is ok. I told the SA that once and never looked back. Lol.

For those that are able to afford these pieces at drop of a hat because of your loyalty or other connections, that’s great for you. I took myself out of this race long time ago.

Edit- for spelling


----------



## eletons

There are shops that sell vintage Hermes or second hand Hermes. You don't need to jump through hoops to get a genuine Hermes. Or if people think it's not worth the money to pay for a genuine Hermes, just purchase from other brands or purchase something that got a similar shape, so why buy a fake Hermes that is intended to look like a genuine Hermes?

By the way, I don't feel that people need to jump hoops to get VCA.


----------



## 880

eletons said:


> There are shops that sell vintage Hermes or second hand Hermes. You don't need to jump through hoops to get a genuine Hermes. Or if people think it's not worth the money to pay for a genuine Hermes, just purchase from other brands or purchase something that got a similar shape, so why buy a fake Hermes that is intended to look like a genuine Hermes?
> 
> By the way, I don't feel that people need to jump hoops to get VCA.


somehow, when I started to collect Hermes bags, it felt safer to purchase vintage. There were methods by which such a piece could be authenticated.

I don’t feel that way about VCA alhambra. The only way to be certain of purchasing the genuine item is at the boutique. I might consider buying a discontinued piece from briony Raymond or Fred Leighton or eleutari but I would want to have some reassurance re provenance or other. I do not think buying something with a full set of papers is any guarantee either.

re the member who was gifted a pendant, are we certain it was fake? Bc there have been other threads about variation in hall marks on older models etc. i think that member should do as she pleases with it. She didn’t knowingly buy a fake. And, it’s possible the giver did not know it was fake either. . . If it were me, I might just go buy the real thing from. The boutique. Then give it to someone who won’t try to dupe someone else. Bc honestly lots of people have no idea, they just think it’s a cute necklace.


----------



## tenshix

eletons said:


> I know she was gifted but knowingly wear a fake that has been gifted just send out the signal to the gift giver that it's ok to keep buying more fake and to gift fake. Not sure if the gift giver know about the status of the pendant though.
> 
> At the same time, the potential gift givers wanting to buy gifts to others (not the OP)might feel ok to gift fakes after reading the posts since the recipient might still keep fakes. What's the point of gifting the authentic ones, right? That's encouraging fakes to circulate around and around the second hand market.



Another way to see this is perhaps that OP might wear it in front of the gift giver as a way to “show face” or appreciation. As a wedding gift I was given a fake full pavè Collier de chien replica in real 18kt gold and diamonds by a relative. I knew it was fake right away. They are not very wealthy but wanted to show face to my parents to give me something nice that we would normally wear. I know to them, even though it’s a just replica, it still cost a lot of money. I have only ever worn it once at a family dinner in front of that relative to show them appreciation but never wore it again nor will I ever wear it in public. It’s a bit awkward for me because I won’t sell it since it’s a sentimental item but also it’s a replica! At some point I will likely ask a jeweler to melt the gold and make it into something else. Right now it just sits in the safe.

My personal opinion is that a gift is a gift and as gift recipients we should be grateful regardless of what we get as gifts are not mandatory. I don’t think there’s need to stir up drama by telling the gift giver it was fake and that I was unhappy with the gift etc, because to me they didn’t have to buy me this at all. Would I have preferred a non-branded piece like a thin tennis bracelet or something else within their budget? Absolutely. But they wanted to “go extra” with that budget and that led them to buy something they thought I would wear. I appreciate the thought process behind it, and I don’t think any less of them for it. It is the thought that counts in this case, and sometimes a smile and a thank you is all the kindness the gift giver needs


----------



## lynne_ross

tenshix said:


> Another way to see this is perhaps that OP might wear it in front of the gift giver as a way to “show face” or appreciation. As a wedding gift I was given a fake full pavè Collier de chien replica in real 18kt gold and diamonds by a relative. I knew it was fake right away. They are not very wealthy but wanted to show face to my parents to give me something nice that we would normally wear. I know to them, even though it’s a just replica, it still cost a lot of money. I have only ever worn it once at a family dinner in front of that relative to show them appreciation but never wore it again nor will I ever wear it in public. It’s a bit awkward for me because I won’t sell it since it’s a sentimental item but also it’s a replica! At some point I will likely ask a jeweler to melt the gold and make it into something else. Right now it just sits in the safe.
> 
> My personal opinion is that a gift is a gift and as gift recipients we should be grateful regardless of what we get as gifts are not mandatory. I don’t think there’s need to stir up drama by telling the gift giver it was fake and that I was unhappy with the gift etc, because to me they didn’t have to buy me this at all. Would I have preferred a non-branded piece like a thin tennis bracelet or something else within their budget? Absolutely. But they wanted to “go extra” with that budget and that led them to buy something they thought I would wear. I appreciate the thought process behind it, and I don’t think any less of them for it. It is the thought that counts in this case, and sometimes a smile and a thank you is all the kindness the gift giver needs


I think it depends if the gift giver passed the item off as a real item or not and whether they knew item was fake or not. I would not say anything to gift giver but would also never use the item and would toss it out. 
Funny story, I was in line at FSH H when they use to have line ups in the store in the leather department. The woman behind me started talking to me and we found out we live near each other. She was there to get a larger Evelyn as her friend had gifted her a tpm. When she drew attention to the bag I immediately noticed something wrong with it as I have 2 myself and I guess my eyes looked shocked. The woman noticed and was like is something wrong. I was like no no. But she was like tell me. I kept insisting nothing was wrong but I guess she knew I thought it was a fake. She whipped out her phone and called her husband and was telling him how this woman in front of her in the H store thought her bag was a fake and how embarrassed she was to be in the store with a fake. My husband was quietly laughing at this scene as it was quite comical as the woman had a big personality so it was all quite a scene. I got served at that moment, so said goodbye. We ran into each other at check out and she said the SA indicated her bag was not real too and she bought a larger one and tossed the fake one. She thanked me for pointing it out as she was so embarrassed to be caring a fake unknowingly. She was very disappointed with her friend as her friend had claimed she bought the bag directly from H store. I bet this happens a lot, especially with husbands trying to cheap out and get fakes to save $. I would not feel good if I thought a friend/loved one lied to me. 
For VCA, I only buy from the store. As I normally have no attention to detail and can not spot a fake.


----------



## tenshix

lynne_ross said:


> I think it depends if the gift giver passed the item off as a real item or not and whether they knew item was fake or not. I would not say anything to gift giver but would also never use the item and would toss it out.
> Funny story, I was in line at FSH H when they use to have line ups in the store in the leather department. The woman behind me started talking to me and we found out we live near each other. She was there to get a larger Evelyn as her friend had gifted her a tpm. When she drew attention to the bag I immediately noticed something wrong with it as I have 2 myself and I guess my eyes looked shocked. The woman noticed and was like is something wrong. I was like no no. But she was like tell me. I kept insisting nothing was wrong but I guess she knew I thought it was a fake. She whipped out her phone and called her husband and was telling him how this woman in front of her in the H store thought her bag was a fake and how embarrassed she was to be in the store with a fake. My husband was quietly laughing at this scene as it was quite comical as the woman had a big personality so it was all quite a scene. I got served at that moment, so said goodbye. We ran into each other at check out and she said the SA indicated her bag was not real too and she bought a larger one and tossed the fake one. She thanked me for pointing it out as she was so embarrassed to be caring a fake unknowingly. She was very disappointed with her friend as her friend had claimed she bought the bag directly from H store. I bet this happens a lot, especially with husbands trying to cheap out and get fakes to save $. I would not feel good if I thought a friend/loved one lied to me.
> For VCA, I only buy from the store. As I normally have no attention to detail and can not spot a fake.



Definitely, I think in that lady’s case she assumed it wouldn’t be a fake and felt lied to which is understandably frustrating. The box the wedding gift my relative gave me was a generic lacquered wooden jewelry box with velvet lining. They weren’t trying to pass it off as the real thing and I genuinely think they thought it was a good gift and that I would wear it. I would definitely be upset if I thought it was real at first but later found out from a third party that it was fake. But because I knew it was fake from the get go and no one tried to pretend otherwise I just smiled and thanked them and wore it once in front of just them to show face to the elders. I come from an Asian background so it’s my upbringing to always have to be polite to the elders. It doesn’t cost anything for me to be kind and gracious, especially over a gift that I can choose to not wear. I don’t see the item as repulsive to just throw into the trash but I definitely do want to melt it down and change it to something else because wearing fakes never sat well with me.

I’m much more risk averse and would not buy luxury goods unless it’s directly at the boutique. I just don’t want to deal with the stress of authentication and possibility of getting a fake after all the money spent, it’s not worth the trouble for me. I admire the ladies here who have the expertise and trained eye in purchasing second hand though.


----------



## BigAkoya

tenshix said:


> Another way to see this is perhaps that OP might wear it in front of the gift giver as a way to “show face” or appreciation. As a wedding gift I was given a fake full pavè Collier de chien replica in real 18kt gold and diamonds by a relative. I knew it was fake right away. They are not very wealthy but wanted to show face to my parents to give me something nice that we would normally wear. I know to them, even though it’s a just replica, it still cost a lot of money. I have only ever worn it once at a family dinner in front of that relative to show them appreciation but never wore it again nor will I ever wear it in public. It’s a bit awkward for me because I won’t sell it since it’s a sentimental item but also it’s a replica! At some point I will likely ask a jeweler to melt the gold and make it into something else. Right now it just sits in the safe.
> 
> My personal opinion is that a gift is a gift and as gift recipients we should be grateful regardless of what we get as gifts are not mandatory. I don’t think there’s need to stir up drama by telling the gift giver it was fake and that I was unhappy with the gift etc, because to me they didn’t have to buy me this at all. Would I have preferred a non-branded piece like a thin tennis bracelet or something else within their budget? Absolutely. But they wanted to “go extra” with that budget and that led them to buy something they thought I would wear. I appreciate the thought process behind it, and I don’t think any less of them for it. It is the thought that counts in this case, and sometimes a smile and a thank you is all the kindness the gift giver needs


I 100% agree with everything you said.  Your actions were so gracious regarding your wedding gift.  A gift is a kind gesture, and the person thought of what you liked.  I agree in not busting their bubble and stirring up drama for personal satisfaction.  Let it lay.  
Who hasn't received a bad gift?  I know I have. However, as you said, which I completely agree with, "it's the thought that counts."
I appreciate every gift, and the thought that was put into it.  

Sometimes, it's not all about me.    I will wear something I don't love to show my appreciation.  Sometimes, it's all about being gracious toward others, especially for their kindness.  

Your words were well said.


----------



## missie1

Luxencoffee said:


> People need to do their own due diligence for that. Like anyone would for buying a house, business, collective art pieces etc etc
> If your friends or family reach out to you about second hand market the best anyone can do is educate them and warn them.
> And if they at that point chose to spend their own money on fakes vs. second hand vs real that’s upto them.


Of course we are all free to buy what we choose however selling fakes as authentic is wrong.  It doesn’t matter if individual is educated enough to know better.  The collective knowledge that our little group has is invaluable and as one who has benefited greatly from their guidance yes I know what to look for on the surface.   With that being said this information is invaluable and the masses won’t have access to this type of detail analysis that @nicole0612 @Happyish @etoupebirkin @Ylesiya.     and others provide to our group.  It’s simply not ok to sell or knowingly buy fakes


----------



## eletons

880 said:


> somehow, when I started to collect Hermes bags, it felt safer to purchase vintage. There were methods by which such a piece could be authenticated.
> 
> I don’t feel that way about VCA alhambra. The only way to be certain of purchasing the genuine item is at the boutique. I might consider buying a discontinued piece from briony Raymond or Fred Leighton or eleutari but I would want to have some reassurance re provenance or other. I do not think buying something with a full set of papers is any guarantee either.
> 
> re the member who was gifted a pendant, are we certain it was fake? Bc there have been other threads about variation in hall marks on older models etc. i think that member should do as she pleases with it. She didn’t knowingly buy a fake. And, it’s possible the giver did not know it was fake either. . . If it were me, I might just go buy the real thing from. The boutique. Then give it to someone who won’t try to dupe someone else. Bc honestly lots of people have no idea, they just think it’s a cute necklace.


I don't agree with the Hermes strategy and not feeling that's worth all the time and money to get an Hermes, so I don't own any. It's that simple. But I have heard that buying from Japanese second hand market is safe. Not sure about VCA. 

As for the member who was gifted the pendant, it's better to repurpose the pendant. Maybe just make it into a keychain or something. By gifting to others, the doubt and the pendant just keep circulating around and around. 

Just because someone might not have the knowledge to distinguish between real and fake doesn't give us permission to fool them or to take advantage of them.


----------



## eletons

tenshix said:


> Another way to see this is perhaps that OP might wear it in front of the gift giver as a way to “show face” or appreciation. As a wedding gift I was given a fake full pavè Collier de chien replica in real 18kt gold and diamonds by a relative. I knew it was fake right away. They are not very wealthy but wanted to show face to my parents to give me something nice that we would normally wear. I know to them, even though it’s a just replica, it still cost a lot of money. I have only ever worn it once at a family dinner in front of that relative to show them appreciation but never wore it again nor will I ever wear it in public. It’s a bit awkward for me because I won’t sell it since it’s a sentimental item but also it’s a replica! At some point I will likely ask a jeweler to melt the gold and make it into something else. Right now it just sits in the safe.
> 
> My personal opinion is that a gift is a gift and as gift recipients we should be grateful regardless of what we get as gifts are not mandatory. I don’t think there’s need to stir up drama by telling the gift giver it was fake and that I was unhappy with the gift etc, because to me they didn’t have to buy me this at all. Would I have preferred a non-branded piece like a thin tennis bracelet or something else within their budget? Absolutely. But they wanted to “go extra” with that budget and that led them to buy something they thought I would wear. I appreciate the thought process behind it, and I don’t think any less of them for it. It is the thought that counts in this case, and sometimes a smile and a thank you is all the kindness the gift giver needs


The member doesn't need to tell the gift giver that it's a potential fake. It depends on how close they are to each other. If it were her DH, I wonder how other members here would suggest. Just turn a blind eye maybe. 

Sometimes as outsiders, it's difficult to tell the intention of the gift givers. Do they know about the status of the gift or not or were they being scammed as well. 

After reading about your case, it seems that the best wedding gift is gold. You can do whatever you want with gold.


----------



## AlexaKate

Just reading all these comments want to share my personal experience here~ My ex-boss gift me a fake Chanel long Pearl necklace as my wedding gift, mind you she’s the CEO of a local bank here, living in usd20,000 monthly rental service apartment (not for sale) wearing croc birkin and million dollars VCA watches. VIP for multiple jewellery brands including Tiffany and VCA. When I opened the Chanel box, the necklace looks very real but there’s a very unpleasant smell waft out of the box which is why I can tell immediately it’s factory made instead of the authentic piece. I didn’t tell her I know it’s fake but I just didn’t use it and eventually chuck it away when moving house. I didn’t think much of it but I did doubt if all her things are authentic haha but she’s a nice person as she later helped me out in my career even tho by then I no longer worked for her……so it’s very difficult to simple “judge” a person over one fake piece, I also suspect her secretary may hv done it as sure she won’t go to the boutique herself lol anyway just some story telling


----------



## Stardust Andromeda

The reason why VCA pieces hold their value is because of the preloved market. If no one buys preloved, the pieces become valueless the moment we take them out of the boutique.

Sellers who knowingly sell fakes (as the real thing) are deceitful - we need to put the blame where it belongs. Buying the real thing and sending the item (and its cert) to be copied seems like a common problem now. If a buyer is not confident, she should not buy from the preloved market without sending the piece for authentication. Some of the stories above are great cautionary tales - even close ones and friends sometimes will not hesitate to sell/gift us their fakes and call it the real thing!

I personally love finding VCA treasures and collectibles but if I am not confident about the source, I would not buy. Authentication goes beyond paperworks. My pieces will be passed on decades from now and I would hate for my kids to have to love a fake because I carelessly bought a fake and left it to them. Eventually, it will become a joke and my descendants will remember me as the ancestor who spent too much time and money buying a fake to pass it on ......


----------



## mommafahionista

I’m thankful for this thread. I appreciate everyone’s personal stories and insights. I am now very skeptical of pieces for sale on the second hand market. I will be taking the stance of assuming it is fake 1st, prove to me it’s real. I see some websites that look legit, but it makes me wonder; how do they have so many rare VCA preloved pieces? And to boot; how come these pieces haven’t been bought already at the seemingly below second hand market prices? Don’t even get me started on ebay. When you see a random seller who is selling, “rare unicorn” and you look at their previous sales and notice an exact “rare unicorn” was sold by them 6 months earlier, makes you wonder if they are just getting a resupply from their counterfitter, whether knowingly or they themselves are being duped. When you start asking questions about the piece, how long they owned it, etc, you can tell they are just resellers trying to make a fast buck. Just like the Ted Talk indicated; legitimate businesses selling fakes that were duped into thinking what they bought was a real piece with “paperwork”. Or, these legitimate businesses look the other way since the pieces they were given, “comes with papers”. Gosh, the second hand market is so scary. I guess luxury, designer pieces are not meant to be had by all. My SA at VCA even told me that it is possible to buy a fake from the big auction houses. Those pieces don’t go through the VCA Heritage authentication process. SO, until they do, assume it is fake until otherwise proven. The super fakes have permanently changed the second hand market.


----------



## 880

eletons said:


> Maybe just make it into a keychain or something


This is a great idea


----------



## DeryaHm

eletons said:


> I know she was gifted but knowingly wear a fake that has been gifted just send out the signal to the gift giver that it's ok to keep buying more fake and to gift fake. Not sure if the gift giver know about the status of the pendant though.
> 
> At the same time, the potential gift givers wanting to buy gifts to others (not the OP)might feel ok to gift fakes after reading the posts since the recipient might still keep fakes. What's the point of gifting the authentic ones, right? That's encouraging fakes to circulate around and around the second hand market.



My not wearing an auntie's gift will not change her ideas about buying or giving fakes but definitely will change her ideas about me.  May be a cultural thing


----------



## eletons

Safa said:


> My not wearing an auntie's gift will not change her ideas about buying or giving fakes but definitely will change her ideas about me.  May be a cultural thing


Most of the time, the gift giving gesture reflects the gift giver's human nature, not the other way around. 

When I was in college, I worked as a part-time salesperson in a jewelry shop. One day, two men came in and each of them chose gifts to gift their wives and mistresses and in their conversation, they talked about how their wives figures changed after giving birth and how it's normal to have mistresses. And from other stories I heard from other sources, sometimes the DHs treat mistresses way better than the wives who have children with them. The DHs are very generous when it comes to buying luxury items to mistresses and very frugal when it comes to the wives. 

It really depends on the relation between the recipient and the gift giver. How close they are to each other. If it were husband and wife, what would the wife do? Keep wearing the fake and encouraging this behaviour or voice out? Gift giving gesture is also a way to show how much the recipient is valued in a certain degree. Not sure if it's alright to send out the signal that it's fine to be treated like this when it comes to wife husband situation.


----------



## sacha1009

louise_elouise said:


> Interesting, does anyone know if purchases from Harrods or selfridges would be in the VCA system?


I went to VCA boutique and bought my VCA set from previous owner and she said she bought them from Harrods. The took my necklace to adjusted my necklace and the code saw in the system, so she built my own profile. So i was lucky that i found pieces that i guess authentic and no problem to get serviced for my necklace.


----------



## mommafahionista

eletons said:


> Most of the time, the gift giving gesture reflects the gift giver's human nature, not the other way around.
> 
> When I was in college, I worked as a part-time salesperson in a jewelry shop. One day, two men came in and each of them chose gifts to gift their wives and mistresses and in their conversation, they talked about how their wives figures changed after giving birth and how it's normal to have mistresses. And from other stories I heard from other sources, sometimes the DHs treat mistresses way better than the wives who have children with them. The DHs are very generous when it comes to buying luxury items to mistresses and very frugal when it comes to the wives.
> 
> It really depends on the relation between the recipient and the gift giver. How close they are to each other. If it were husband and wife, what would the wife do? Keep wearing the fake and encouraging this behaviour or voice out? Gift giving gesture is also a way to show how much the recipient is valued in a certain degree. Not sure if it's alright to send out the signal that it's fine to be treated like this when it comes to wife husband situation.


I could see this totally as being true. It says a lot about what goes into the thought process about buying a gift. How much do I appreciate this person? How much $$ do I think they are worth to buy a gift? How much do I want to impress them to think that I have money? Do I think they’ll know how much I spent? Or do I want them to think I spent $$$ on a gift for them to win some kind of favor? If it is just as they say, “it’s the thought that counts”, then receiving a fake item says a lot of what they think about you. I guess those husbands don’t value their wives as much as their mistresses.


----------



## 880

Safa said:


> My not wearing an auntie's gift will not change her ideas about buying or giving fakes but definitely will change her ideas about me.  May be a cultural thing


+1000.
I know some members of my family dont understand why I wear real. But, they are thrilled to blab to all and sundry that it’s not real, but rather this bargain . . . They do wear real bags and RTW though. There’s this disconnect, esp. if the diamonds are better quality than the real thing or other. i will reiterate that there are no serial numbers or branding attempt to pass this off as the real thing. And, I’m not endorsing it. It’s just fruitless to argue with them, esp. if they are older than me. (Yes, I’m 54, but to some of them, I’m just a kid). Perhaps my family (not in NY) just runs in different circles in that they don’t really attach much importance to VCA or branded jewelry (watches yes, jewelry no). They appreciate gemstones. When family members tire of the lucky charms, they might even give to the maid. In a zip lock. The most they might say is it’s real gold.


----------



## mommafahionista

880 said:


> +1000.
> I know some members of my family dont understand why I wear real. But, they are thrilled to blab to all and sundry that it’s not real, but rather this bargain . . . They do wear real bags and RTW though. There’s this disconnect, esp. if the diamonds are better quality than the real thing or other. i will reiterate that there are no serial numbers or branding attempt to pass this off as the real thing. And, I’m not endorsing it. It’s just fruitless to argue with them, esp. if they are older than me. (Yes, I’m 54, but to some of them, I’m just a kid).


Do you know if the people you know who wear the copies (without serial number) wear anything from that designer that is authentic?  Does it also pertain to non jewelry items or just jewelry?


----------



## 880

mommafahionista said:


> Do you know if the people you know who wear the copies (without serial number) wear anything from that designer that is authentic?  Does it also pertain to non jewelry items or just jewelry?


they don’t know enough about VCA to wear anything else.
As far as I know it’s just these charms 
 They wear real Hermes, real chanel, have real original art in their homes (Henry Moore, Jasper johns , Warhol  etc. 
again, I’m not defending them, I’m just explaining that I can’t persuade them otherwise.


----------



## AnaBeavTheOG

Just wanted to chime in to say, I'm surprised to hear that so many folks would just chuck away a fake. There's still real gold there! At least scrap it for some extra $$$. I call dibs next time someone wants to get rid of a fake. Thanks in advance .


----------



## mommafahionista

880 said:


> they don’t know enough about VCA to wear anything else.
> As far as I know it’s just these charms
> They wear real Hermes, real chanel, have real original art in their homes (Henry Moore, Jasper johns , Warhol  etc.
> again, I’m not defending them, I’m just explaining that I can’t persuade them otherwise.


Thank you for the response. I wonder if its only jewelry they consider not worth buying in a Designer Brand. Or maybe its because they prefer a higher k gold vs the 18k that VCA offers? If they buy real Hermes and Chanel, I'm sure they understand the mark up on leather and cloth ( especially haute couture) as opposed to gold and gems.

Why buy authentic for some artistic work, but not others. TO me jewelry is a sure thing that will hold value longer than clothing/leather that can deteriorate naturally with time. Jewelry for the most part (aisde from soft stones) won't. When you purchase a Chanel CF, you get a lifetime warranty. But that just means that they will replace the hardware and try and repair the leather. So how long can it really last? Maybe long enough for their kids, but probably not for their grandchildren. Jewelry can be passed down for generations. So just from a "what holds its value more" side, I think jewelry over clothing/bags. Of course authentic artwork will hold its value. And they're not making any more land, so that always holds value. Fakes will not hold any value, so why do people even bother? Like a previous poster said, one wouldn't want their heirs to think of them in low regard knowing that they were bequeathed imposter pieces.


----------



## lynne_ross

mommafahionista said:


> Thank you for the response. I wonder if its only jewelry they consider not worth buying in a Designer Brand. Or maybe its because they prefer a higher k gold vs the 18k that VCA offers? If they buy real Hermes and Chanel, I'm sure they understand the mark up on leather and cloth ( especially haute couture) as opposed to gold and gems.
> 
> Why buy authentic for some artistic work, but not others. TO me jewelry is a sure thing that will hold value longer than clothing/leather that can deteriorate naturally with time. Jewelry for the most part (aisde from soft stones) won't. When you purchase a Chanel CF, you get a lifetime warranty. But that just means that they will replace the hardware and try and repair the leather. So how long can it really last? Maybe long enough for their kids, but probably not for their grandchildren. Jewelry can be passed down for generations. So just from a "what holds its value more" side, I think jewelry over clothing/bags. Of course authentic artwork will hold its value. And they're not making any more land, so that always holds value. Fakes will not hold any value, so why do people even bother? Like a previous poster said, one wouldn't want their heirs to think of them in low regard knowing that they were bequeathed imposter pieces.


I believe the behaviour is culturally driven. Since moving to Hong Kong I have met a good number of folks (Asians) that buy designer bags, clothes but not designer jewellery. They always give me a hard time for wasting my money on designer when as they put it I can have a lookalike made for a fraction of price and better material. Their lookalikes will not have any markings to try and pass it off as designer. For example one such person had a two butterfly ring made. It looked really good but had no vca markings and the person was not trying to pass off as real. The thought process was the raw materials can be reused later or they can give away the piece as it is not that expensive when they tire of the piece. My theory is that it is socially and culturally acceptable to do this with jewellery for them as they have a long history of having jewellery hand made. Whereas wearing designer bags and handbags are a more recent trend. I could be wrong, just my thought. 
Regardless, not everything people do is logical to others.


----------



## 880

lynne_ross said:


> I believe the behaviour is culturally driven. Since moving to Hong Kong I have met a good number of folks (Asians) that buy designer bags, clothes but not designer jewellery. They always give me a hard time for wasting my money on designer when as they put it I can have a lookalike made for a fraction of price and better material. Their lookalikes will not have any markings to try and pass it off as designer. For example one such person had a two butterfly ring made. It looked really good but had no vca markings and the person was not trying to pass off as real. The thought process was the raw materials can be reused later or they can give away the piece as it is not that expensive when they tire of the piece. My theory is that it is socially and culturally acceptable to do this with jewellery for them as they have a long history of having jewellery hand made. Whereas wearing designer bags and handbags are a more recent trend. I could be wrong, just my thought.
> Regardless, not everything people do is logical to others.


Thank you for explaining this more clearly than I did.


----------



## chaerimk

lynne_ross said:


> I believe the behaviour is culturally driven. Since moving to Hong Kong I have met a good number of folks (Asians) that buy designer bags, clothes but not designer jewellery. They always give me a hard time for wasting my money on designer when as they put it I can have a lookalike made for a fraction of price and better material. Their lookalikes will not have any markings to try and pass it off as designer. For example one such person had a two butterfly ring made. It looked really good but had no vca markings and the person was not trying to pass off as real. The thought process was the raw materials can be reused later or they can give away the piece as it is not that expensive when they tire of the piece. My theory is that it is socially and culturally acceptable to do this with jewellery for them as they have a long history of having jewellery hand made. Whereas wearing designer bags and handbags are a more recent trend. I could be wrong, just my thought.
> Regardless, not everything people do is logical to others.


I grew up in SE Asia and it is the same mentality. When you buy jewelry, you buy with the gold weight in mind before any brand name even being mentioned. The labor cost is so low that it is all about the weight of the gold, with or w/o diamonds. When I told my mom or older gen in the US about my VCA or Cartier , they would say I am nut to overpaid when they can go to a jewelry shop and get one made in the same and cost less.


----------



## tenshix

lynne_ross said:


> I believe the behaviour is culturally driven. Since moving to Hong Kong I have met a good number of folks (Asians) that buy designer bags, clothes but not designer jewellery. They always give me a hard time for wasting my money on designer when as they put it I can have a lookalike made for a fraction of price and better material. Their lookalikes will not have any markings to try and pass it off as designer. For example one such person had a two butterfly ring made. It looked really good but had no vca markings and the person was not trying to pass off as real. The thought process was the raw materials can be reused later or they can give away the piece as it is not that expensive when they tire of the piece. My theory is that it is socially and culturally acceptable to do this with jewellery for them as they have a long history of having jewellery hand made. Whereas wearing designer bags and handbags are a more recent trend. I could be wrong, just my thought.
> Regardless, not everything people do is logical to others.





chaerimk said:


> I grew up in SE Asia and it is the same mentality. When you buy jewelry, you buy with the gold weight in mind before any brand name even being mentioned. The labor cost is so low that it is all about the weight of the gold, with or w/o diamonds. When I told my mom or older gen in the US about my VCA or Cartier , they would say I am nut to overpaid when they can go to a jewelry shop and get one made in the same and cost less.



Both of these are so true, I grew up in SE Asia as well and found that a lot of my relatives think it’s crazy to pay for designer jewelry. Sometimes we inspect each other’s jewelry for fun at family events and while I don’t want to be snobbish, not all of the jewelry they have made are up to my personal standards. Yes the gold is heavy and has a lot of precious stones or diamonds sometimes but the finishing work leaves a lot to be desired for me. 

My DH used to get a heart attack every time I mention a branded jewelry piece I want (“It costs HOW much for HOW little gold???”) and he resisted it for a while until he came to the boutiques with me and I shared the quality difference with him. We also agreed on a moral level that fakes was not for us. Of course there are exceptional independent jewelers out there but the exceptional ones always make their own unique collections and they may/may not be in the style you like.

For me, I’m willing to pay the higher cost not to show off or flex on other people, but more so for peace of mind and appreciating the craftsmanship. There’s also peace of mind knowing you can always get them repaired exactly back to the way it was supposed to and should last for generations to come. I have noticed that some relatives who can’t afford it will continue to buy the fakes to get the look, while others have made the switch from fake to real once they saw mine were real and the difference in quality. It’s all situational I guess.


----------



## eletons

I am living in Asia and the style of jewelry that the older generation like is not my cup of tea. Probably the weight of gold and stones and all that can make up for that old fashioned style. VCA is worth it when you come across the stones that sings with you. 

For me, jewelry doesn't support killing like handbag industry does. Nowadays, big companies own crocodile farms in order to keep the supply of leather going stable. Just because companies raise the crocodiles does not give them the right to kill them. This makes me associate with homicide. Like how some parents raise children and then force children to die with them when things go wrong. Not a beautiful picture. 

Having said that, I do buy genuine leather bags but not very often and I make sure that the bags I have got used often and I normally use them until they are not able to hold the shape and the colour fade. I have just started buying designer handbags and find that designer handbags are not very practical especially big brands that fetch high price, either too heavy or not able to hold a lot or the opening is not user-friendly. There's always something in the design that keeps me away from buying it. The mid-tier brands' designs have everything that I need in a bag. That's a good thing. I can focus on jewelry and more VCA or time piece.


----------



## mommafahionista

The difference in cultural views on jewelry is interesting.

VCA is known for their excellent craftsmanship. They pride themselves in the number of hours it takes to complete a piece of art. They polish every surface of that piece. They only use the highest quality gemstones, so nothing they have, I would argue, is of lower quality than any jewelry piece made by the family jeweler; probably the opposite. They are VERY selective as to what gemstones they use. After the sleeping beauty mine closed, they were not able to get the high quality and highly coveted TQ stone so they stopped making a lot of those pieces. Their watches only use Swiss movement. Gold is 100% recyclable and can easily be melted down and repurposed. Using a higher k gold is more a personal preference. It doesn’t increase the cost of making the piece that much more. If anything, 18k is more durable.

Maybe because gold has a long history of backing the value of money, people associate jewelry as currency to a degree more than they view it as a piece of art?


----------



## eletons

mommafahionista said:


> The difference in cultural views on jewelry is interesting.
> 
> VCA is known for their excellent craftsmanship. They pride themselves in the number of hours it takes to complete a piece of art. They polish every surface of that piece. They only use the highest quality gemstones, so nothing they have, I would argue, is of lower quality than any jewelry piece made by the family jeweler; probably the opposite. They are VERY selective as to what gemstones they use. After the sleeping beauty mine closed, they were not able to get the high quality and highly coveted TQ stone so they stopped making a lot of those pieces. Their watches only use Swiss movement. Gold is 100% recyclable and can easily be melted down and repurposed. Using a higher k gold is more a personal preference. It doesn’t increase the cost of making the piece that much more. If anything, 18k is more durable.
> 
> Maybe because gold has a long history of backing the value of money, people associate jewelry as currency to a degree more than they view it as a piece of art?


We can also call the traditional gold jewelry sold in traditional jewelry shops in Asia a piece of art because in the old days, there was not much help from laser or machine, you can see the pieces are a bit raw and so you see that it's really handmade because the pattern is not neat and guilloche is not in tiny micro straight lines. Actually those pieces are part of history. 

That's why the passing down of jewelry to the next generation is not just continuation of the family tradition, it's also the passing down of the craftsmanship and the representative of a certain era. If you wear all your jewelry often, you have your own stories that are linked to the pieces. Those stories help the next generation remember the person that wears them. 

And yes, the husbands' mind sets and care for the wives got shown when they are choosing gifts. Some really understand their wife's lifestyle and jewelry preference like when they know their wife always take off jewelry before bed, they choose the open-ended bangle rather than the full circle one. Some choose a certain symbol because it reminds them of the place that they first visited. It's very interesting to talk to those who really care about their wife and choose what's meaningful and the best for them even when their wife is not present in the shop.


----------



## DeryaHm

mommafahionista said:


> The difference in cultural views on jewelry is interesting.
> 
> VCA is known for their excellent craftsmanship. They pride themselves in the number of hours it takes to complete a piece of art. They polish every surface of that piece. They only use the highest quality gemstones, so nothing they have, I would argue, is of lower quality than any jewelry piece made by the family jeweler; probably the opposite. They are VERY selective as to what gemstones they use. After the sleeping beauty mine closed, they were not able to get the high quality and highly coveted TQ stone so they stopped making a lot of those pieces. Their watches only use Swiss movement. Gold is 100% recyclable and can easily be melted down and repurposed. Using a higher k gold is more a personal preference. It doesn’t increase the cost of making the piece that much more. If anything, 18k is more durable.
> 
> Maybe because gold has a long history of backing the value of money, people associate jewelry as currency to a degree more than they view it as a piece of art?


I think it's not just because gold backs the value of money, but in countries with a soft or weak currency, gold also IS money. My family keeps gold in coins and bars, and some in plain bracelets (the less worksmanship the better because you are paying for that not just the gold but on some occasions it is more polite to give a bracelet than a coin). This is  very different than custom jewelry or designer pieces. The intention is to sell it as needed or to guard against times of big inflation or currency drops as they are experiencing now. It's also kind of a polite gift it is normal to sell if you need a little cash. I sold some of my wedding jewelry (not the nice custom pieces that were actually to wear, which have lots of worksmanship and stones etc) to buy my first apartment. I know very few people who literally have their pieces melted down. More typically you can just swap-out your gold pieces for something you like better if you are trading for jewelry or just sell them for cash. Obviously VCA pieces don't serve this purpose at all, since this kind of transaction is based on the gold purity and the weight. Any handiworks you paid for at original purchase are just a loss. It's a different mentality, more common in the older generations. In addition to gold in safes or banks, you will find it stashed all over some houses. My family (in Turkey, not me in the US, although I know two like this in the US) keeps some gold bars hidden under a bed, in her freezer, inside bags of rice etc. It's just a certain mentality that is maybe hard to understand if you are from somewhere with a more stable economy.

I think since clothes and bags are kind of seen as disposable anyway, I mean they don't seem like a financial instrument, jewelry is different. Some of my relatives for sure think of VCA and similar as paying someone a dollar for a fancy quarter


----------



## AnaBeavTheOG

Ditto re: what previous posters said about Chinese cultural views regarding jewelry. It's not uncommon to gift someone like, a chunk of gold molded into a shape of a pig or something. I myself got a solid 24k necklace with a 24k pendant as a wedding gift from my parents. I haven't heard of anyone in my family getting designer jewelry from our elders.


----------



## chaerimk

Back to the convo. We can see that people from different culture and back ground approach the replica or fake jewelery differently. If one can afford to buy it then good for them. If they don't and buy fake then that is also on them. Some people just got too wound up on the issue when there are millions other things in the world to worry about. 

I, however 100% against someone try to sell fake as real. Those are scummy people and should be jail.


----------



## eletons

chaerimk said:


> Back to the convo. We can see that people from different culture and back ground approach the replica or fake jewelery differently. If one can afford to buy it then good for them. If they don't and buy fake then that is also on them. Some people just got too wound up on the issue when there are millions other things in the world to worry about.
> 
> I, however 100% against someone try to sell fake as real. Those are scummy people and should be jail.


It seems like the posts are about not being scammed and the less bright side about owning fakes (the handling of the fakes might bring inconvenience in the future). Not sure why people worry about being seen wearing fakes when they have the courage to buy the imitated ones to pass as real things in the first place. Guess those who own the imitated ones don't care or don't mind about what other people think. When they don't care, there shouldn't be any reactions. 

Like you said 'people just got wound up on the issue when there are millions of other things in the world to worry about '


----------



## nightbefore

Add one to those moms!  @marbella8 @880 only collection my mom finds really “worth” it is YG frivole. She doesn’t get the alhambra or butterflies


----------



## AlexaKate

My understanding for ppl who buy fake designer jewellery but own authentic handbags is that VCA 18k gold is same as any other jeweller 18k gold, diamond also as well (not to mention brands like Cartier which hv much less craftsmanship involved with the simple industrial look, my colleague once commented Cartier love bangle is just a gold bangle with nail motifs nothing too technical and difficult to copy) But when it comes to leather good, it’s almost impossible to source the exact same type of leather as Hermes even if you have the exact same craftsmanship, many quality counterfeits H bag in Asia claim to have hired ex-Hermes artisan to do the sewing or buy an authentic bag to dissect and copy the lay out and stitchings. It’s the same for Chanel tweed jacket which is very difficult to fake when you don’t have access to the very specific tweed fabrics.


----------



## eletons

AlexaKate said:


> My understanding for ppl who buy fake designer jewellery but own authentic handbags is that VCA 18k gold is same as any other jeweller 18k gold, diamond also as well (not to mention brands like Cartier which hv much less craftsmanship involved with the simple industrial look, my colleague once commented Cartier love bangle is just a gold bangle with nail motifs nothing too technical and difficult to copy) But when it comes to leather good, it’s almost impossible to source the exact same type of leather as Hermes even if you have the exact same craftsmanship, many quality counterfeits H bag in Asia claim to have hired ex-Hermes artisan to do the sewing or buy an authentic bag to dissect and copy the lay out and stitchings. It’s the same for Chanel tweed jacket which is very difficult to fake when you don’t have access to the very specific tweed fabrics.


For that price, I would prefer a watch from top brands. 

The war in Eastern Europe has given me some thoughts. Jewelry and watches can be carried easily out of the country borders quickly but handbags can't be unless you have assistants or house maids to help. So in the time of emergency, jewelry and watches can always follow the wearers. Might be that's why jewelry and watches are considered sentimental pieces or pieces we gift to newly weds.


----------



## sassification

I am curious, have anyone seen the high quality fakes for the pave alhambra motifs? Is it really just as good as the real one? I think the pave VA motif is quite intricate, the setting .. and am curious if the fakes can really achieve it. If so, i feel quite silly to have paid the hefty mark up.. lol

I get that the typical 5 stones pieces are easy to achieve high quality fakes. I just wonder about the pave ones


----------



## tenshix

sassification said:


> I am curious, have anyone seen the high quality fakes for the pave alhambra motifs? Is it really just as good as the real one? I think the pave VA motif is quite intricate, the setting .. and am curious if the fakes can really achieve it. If so, i feel quite silly to have paid the hefty mark up.. lol
> 
> I get that the typical 5 stones pieces are easy to achieve high quality fakes. I just wonder about the pave ones



I don’t think you or anyone should feel silly to have paid the mark up for the genuine real item if you are passionate about jewelry and have appreciation for the VCA brand and craftsmanship. It is worth the cost in my opinion. I haven’t inspected a fake pavé closely in person but as with all fakes there’s always something that’ll give it away upon closer inspection whether it be the finishing, stamp, clasp, gold tone mix, etc.

There will always be fakes of a lot of things and if that deters you from buying genuine items I think that’s a shame since what other people choose to buy shouldn’t rob you of your own joy and appreciation for the things you like and bought for yourself. Enjoy your genuine pieces, you worked hard for them and deserve to enjoy them to the fullest!


----------



## sassification

tenshix said:


> I don’t think you or anyone should feel silly to have paid the mark up for the genuine real item if you are passionate about jewelry and have appreciation for the VCA brand and craftsmanship. It is worth the cost in my opinion. I haven’t inspected a fake pavé closely in person but as with all fakes there’s always something that’ll give it away upon closer inspection whether it be the finishing, stamp, clasp, gold tone mix, etc.
> 
> There will always be fakes of a lot of things and if that deters you from buying genuine items I think that’s a shame since what other people choose to buy shouldn’t rob you of your own joy and appreciation for the things you like and bought for yourself. Enjoy your genuine pieces, you worked hard for them and deserve to enjoy them to the fullest!


Thanks for sharing! I still buy the real stuff as i dont wanna spend even a cent on a fake, but seeing how real the photos of high end fakes are, inevitably, it does make me buy less of Cartier and VCA now or actually , i just end up with a much smaller collection because of this. Which is happy news for my wallet. Lol. When i do decide to buy, i do still prefer to buy the real deal from the boutiques nowadays. Just that i buy much lesser than i would have


----------



## DeryaHm

I don’t understand why other people using fakes matters to how you care about what you wear. In my home country there are fakes of everything. People have fake M or AMG badges put on their cars. Body shops will even build a fake body of a luxury car to put on a cheaper chassis somehow.

I love performance cars but never drive them to their maximum, so I overpay by buying more car than I need or can use from a certain perspective. Whether some cars out there have a fake badge does not change how I feel for my cars or what car I buy so I’m not sure why it would for jewelry. Get what you love and don’t worry if others may be wearing fakes. Doesn’t affect yours at all I think. Of course it winks be better if they didn’t exist, but we can’t solve this problem other than only buying from the boutique ourselves


----------



## Notorious Pink

BigAkoya said:


> One more comment I want to add… the name Alhambra is 100% copied from the namesake Alhambra fortress in Granada.  There are tons of quatrefoils used there in the architecture/tile, which in reading about historic VCA is where they got the inspiration for this motif and hence called the line Alhambra.
> 
> In my personal view, I find it hard to claim VCA invented this.  It’s like me saying I invented the pave cross design.  But who knows, I’ve worked with IP attorneys and some of the perspectives and angles they come up with to make their case are quite creative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alhambra - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org





eletons said:


> Framing the shape with perlee might make a difference. The shape is universal but what about perlee surrounding the quatrefoils?
> 
> Wondering if that's the reason why the pure collection in VCA is less seen or less desirable because the pure collection looks universal.



I was exactly thinking about the quatrefoil surrounded by the perlee beading as copyrightable. 

I think I am going to keep some thoughts here to myself, based on the fact that this is exactly the area of law I had wanted to practice (IP copyright/trademark protection) and only did not because when I graduated law school I was required to go back to undergrad and get a BS in order to be hireable as an IP attorney. Anyone who read my Hermès counterfeit article knows I have _opinions_, lol. But I agree with a lot of what has been said here by others.

I like the idea of giving/receiving fungible items as gifts. Its a lot nicer than a check or gift card!


----------



## BigAkoya

Notorious Pink said:


> I was exactly thinking about the quatrefoil surrounded by the perlee beading as copyrightable.
> 
> I think I am going to keep some thoughts here to myself, based on the fact that this is exactly the area of law I had wanted to practice (IP copyright/trademark protection) and only did not because when I graduated law school I was required to go back to undergrad and get a BS in order to be hireable as an IP attorney. Anyone who read my Hermès counterfeit article knows I have _opinions_, lol. But I agree with a lot of what has been said here by others.
> 
> I like the idea of giving/receiving fungible items as gifts. Its a lot nicer than a check or gift card!


I bet you if you were practicing, you could help VCA win their case!     VCA needs some serious help with out of the box thinking.

I would love to read your Hermes article as I love good debates/opinions.  Can you kindly share a link?  If the article is private or limited to select groups, I certainly understand and no worries at all.


----------



## Luxencoffee

sassification said:


> I am curious, have anyone seen the high quality fakes for the pave alhambra motifs? Is it really just as good as the real one? I think the pave VA motif is quite intricate, the setting .. and am curious if the fakes can really achieve it. If so, i feel quite silly to have paid the hefty mark up.. lol
> 
> I get that the typical 5 stones pieces are easy to achieve high quality fakes. I just wonder about the pave ones


They are hard to tell apart but that shouldnt stop anyone from buying what they love. Who is going in boutiques to verify whether other people’s pieces are fakes or not?
Buy what makes you happy and gives you peace of mind.


----------



## Notorious Pink

BigAkoya said:


> I bet you if you were practicing, you could help VCA win their case!     VCA needs some serious help with out of the box thinking.
> 
> I would love to read your Hermes article as I love good debates/opinions.  Can you kindly share a link?  If the article is private or limited to select groups, I certainly understand and no worries at all.


Girllllll, I write for a little outfit called PurseBlog! You might have heard of them, lol.   









						When the World of Counterfeit Goods Enters the Conversation - PurseBlog
					

A recent article in The Cut highlighted ladies who prefer to buy counterfeits. Counterfeit bags are immoral, unethical and illegal.




					www.purseblog.com
				




FYI I get reamed in the comments. There were a few really nasty attacks on my personal appearance which I think got removed.


----------



## BigAkoya

Notorious Pink said:


> Girllllll, I write for a little outfit called PurseBlog! You might have heard of them, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the World of Counterfeit Goods Enters the Conversation - PurseBlog
> 
> 
> A recent article in The Cut highlighted ladies who prefer to buy counterfeits. Counterfeit bags are immoral, unethical and illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.purseblog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FYI I get reamed in the comments. There were a few really nasty attacks on my personal appearance which I think got removed.


Oh yes... that article!    I need to read PurseBlog more.  I'm like a little gerbil and just follow the same few threads.  Thanks for reminding me!


----------



## Luxencoffee

Just went through the article— interesting take!
This comment sums up my take the bestest on luxury industry.

“What I don’t understand is the glorification of certain “kinds” or any kind of wealth, it honestly stinks of classism. The idea that only “truly wealthy” people appreciate authentic things, because they understand the value of hard work and therefore understand quality is laughable. Are there wealthy people who work hard? Of course, but hard work, authenticity, and appreciation are not qualities that inherently belong to those of high socioeconomic status—in fact there are many who’re “self-made” or “old money” that are the antithesis of some/all of all the aforementioned qualities. 

Plenty of people work hard, and many times the poorest work the hardest for the least, yet are viewed as lazy, incompetent, or undeserving because their inability to rise in a system the is a lie. Hard work is not nor has ever been a guarantee of financial success. Luxury goods are not a barometer ethics or “class,” and therefore should be separated from them. 

Stop the focus and back and forth about what “actual” rich people do. Wealthy people doing or not doing something, does not indicate if an action is ethical or ok, or add any value to an argument. We live in a society that over values money and considers it a sign of virtue (particularly for certain groups of people). Make the meat of the argument about how certain actions hurt other people and and give substantive and quantitative evidence, not an afterthought about “marginalized communities.” That is how you will gain traction and punch the sails of The Cut’s article.”

——-Luxury goods are not a barometer ethics or “class,” and therefore should be separated from them. 

Hits the nail on the head.^^


----------



## Notorious Pink

Luxencoffee said:


> Just went through the article— interesting take!
> This comment sums up my take the bestest on luxury industry.
> 
> “What I don’t understand is the glorification of certain “kinds” or any kind of wealth, it honestly stinks of classism. The idea that only “truly wealthy” people appreciate authentic things, because they understand the value of hard work and therefore understand quality is laughable. Are there wealthy people who work hard? Of course, but hard work, authenticity, and appreciation are not qualities that inherently belong to those of high socioeconomic status—in fact there are many who’re “self-made” or “old money” that are the antithesis of some/all of all the aforementioned qualities.
> 
> Plenty of people work hard, and many times the poorest work the hardest for the least, yet are viewed as lazy, incompetent, or undeserving because their inability to rise in a system the is a lie. Hard work is not nor has ever been a guarantee of financial success. Luxury goods are not a barometer ethics or “class,” and therefore should be separated from them.
> 
> Stop the focus and back and forth about what “actual” rich people do. Wealthy people doing or not doing something, does not indicate if an action is ethical or ok, or add any value to an argument. We live in a society that over values money and considers it a sign of virtue (particularly for certain groups of people). Make the meat of the argument about how certain actions hurt other people and and give substantive and quantitative evidence, not an afterthought about “marginalized communities.” That is how you will gain traction and punch the sails of The Cut’s article.”
> 
> ——-Luxury goods are not a barometer ethics or “class,” and therefore should be separated from them.
> 
> Hits the nail on the head.^^


I don’t disagree with anything this author said at all. Unfortunately it was irrelevant to the point I was trying to make (in fact, it was also irrelevant to my article, as well as the parts of the Cut article I was responding to). 

I’m not interested in pursuing this discussion further, and it’s also off topic to this thread.


----------



## eletons

sassification said:


> Thanks for sharing! I still buy the real stuff as i dont wanna spend even a cent on a fake, but seeing how real the photos of high end fakes are, inevitably, it does make me buy less of Cartier and VCA now or actually , i just end up with a much smaller collection because of this. Which is happy news for my wallet. Lol. When i do decide to buy, i do still prefer to buy the real deal from the boutiques nowadays. Just that i buy much lesser than i would have


To be honest, the fakes circulating around the second hand market does help me think carefully before adding more pieces to my vca collection because I don't want to go through the troubles of the need to sell it later due to regrets. I make sure that every item is of use to me and suits my lifestyle because I always emphasize on cost per wear. 

My plan for my vca collection hasn't changed but it does mean a smaller collection because I won't look for perceived 'rare' pieces to add and I will do a bit of prioritizing before I add more pieces with high price tag (high price in my own definition), I would ask myself “With this price, What else I can get that is difficult to fake？” I would get the items that are of the similar price point but it's hard to fake first before anything else. 

I was thinking about adding at least one diamond piece from vca but now, knowing that I might be overdressed in my social circle and my daily work environment if I wear a diamond piece from vca to those events, I wonder if there's a need to add a diamond piece from this house. The pave piece that I don't think as overdressed in those events is the pave and stone alternating 5 motif bracelet but then there are a lot of counterfeits for this model. I will take time to think about it. After all, my goal is to add a few pieces from a few collections such as Alhambra, frivole, Lotus.


----------



## sassification

eletons said:


> To be honest, the fakes circulating around the second hand market does help me think carefully before adding more pieces to my vca collection because I don't want to go through the troubles of the need to sell it later due to regrets. I make sure that every item is of use to me and suits my lifestyle because I always emphasize on cost per wear.
> 
> My plan for my vca collection hasn't changed but it does mean a smaller collection because I won't look for perceived 'rare' pieces to add and I will do a bit of prioritizing before I add more pieces with high price tag (high price in my own definition), I would ask myself “With this price, What else I can get that is difficult to fake？” I would get the items that are of the similar price point but it's hard to fake first before anything else.
> 
> I was thinking about adding at least one diamond piece from vca but now, knowing that I might be overdressed in my social circle and my daily work environment if I wear a diamond piece from vca to those events, I wonder if there's a need to add a diamond piece from this house. The pave piece that I don't think as overdressed in those events is the pave and stone alternating 5 motif bracelet but then there are a lot of counterfeits for this model. I will take time to think about it. After all, my goal is to add a few pieces from a few collections such as Alhambra, frivole, Lotus.



Totally agree that the only pave piece that can be easily worn day to day is the alternating pave 5 motif bracelet, i fell in love with this piece longgg ago. The grey mop and rose gold one. But i went with onyx in the end because i am in a WG phase. 

I think frivole pave may be ok for day to day wear too.. lotus is beautiful but not for my everyday casual lifestyle.

It annoys me that the pave alternating bracelet has fakes circulating around.. and they look good on pics (but in rea life? Not sure abt how the fakes wld look)

Although expensive, i really love the VCA pave or diamond pieces.. i realise i need some bling in my jewellery, else i may get bored on most occasions


----------



## mommafahionista

Safa said:


> I don’t understand why other people using fakes matters to how you care about what you wear. In my home country there are fakes of everything. People have fake M or AMG badges put on their cars. Body shops will even build a fake body of a luxury car to put on a cheaper chassis somehow.
> 
> I love performance cars but never drive them to their maximum, so I overpay by buying more car than I need or can use from a certain perspective. Whether some cars out there have a fake badge does not change how I feel for my cars or what car I buy so I’m not sure why it would for jewelry. Get what you love and don’t worry if others may be wearing fakes. Doesn’t affect yours at all I think. Of course it winks be better if they didn’t exist, but we can’t solve this problem other than only buying from the boutique ourselves


People do judge others for their life choices, rightly or wrongly. 

I’ve never heard of fake designer cars. If there was anything I would have thought couldn’t be faked, it would be cars. Where have you seen that?


----------



## DeryaHm

.


----------



## eletons

sassification said:


> Totally agree that the only pave piece that can be easily worn day to day is the alternating pave 5 motif bracelet, i fell in love with this piece longgg ago. The grey mop and rose gold one. But i went with onyx in the end because i am in a WG phase.
> 
> I think frivole pave may be ok for day to day wear too.. lotus is beautiful but not for my everyday casual lifestyle.
> 
> It annoys me that the pave alternating bracelet has fakes circulating around.. and they look good on pics (but in rea life? Not sure abt how the fakes wld look)
> 
> Although expensive, i really love the VCA pave or diamond pieces.. i realise i need some bling in my jewellery, else i may get bored on most occasions


Just got a chance to mingle with a lady in her 50s who can afford to hire driver(a family driver that they hire) and go to nice places. She is very low-key and her choice of jewelry is not recognisable but you can tell they're of high quality and she always wears smart casual clothing without H bags, had no idea what bag she's using. 

I have not had a chance to see ladies around me wearing diamond pieces lately. That's how I know if I had pave piece from vca, they would just stay at home. 

Frivole pave btf ring is very blingy. I tried this one on once. For Lotus collection, I admire the earrings but I doubt if I will add it in my near future. So probably alternating 5 motif bracelet suits my lifestyle better. It's blingy but not in your face blingy. 

You have chosen well. The alternating wg onyx bracelet can be worn from day to night. It can be worn both in summer and winter because of the wg material and the colour of onyx is a neutral colour.


----------



## jenayb

mommafahionista said:


> People do judge others for their life choices, rightly or wrongly.
> 
> I’ve never heard of fake designer cars. If there was anything I would have thought couldn’t be faked, it would be cars. Where have you seen that?


They’re all over. All luxury vehicles have entry level trim and then upper, more expensive trim. For Porsche it’s Turbo and Turbo S, Mercedes has AMG, BMW has their M line, and so on & so forth. Typically these reference performance as well as additional bells and whistles. 

There are plenty of folks out there who will buy the entry level vehicles and slap on a fake badge to try to make it appear as if they’ve purchased the higher level vehicle. You can easily buy these badges on eBay, Amazon, etc. 

It’s funny though because those who actually know cars can spot a “fake” easily. There are different hallmarks beyond badging - caliper colours, body trim, etc that the entry level cars don’t have.


----------



## 880

eletons said:


> With this price, What else I can get that is difficult to fake


Agree. I prefer to buy pieces that I love that are relatively uncommon and not as duplicated. And that’s also how I respond to my family who ask why I don’t buy the dupes.

I’ve never seen a fake car either. Most of my family lives in the SE Asia. One of my cousins collects cars like the mustang shelby, Ferrari etc. But those are not really used for daily life. Most avoid fancy cars, bc they are older and remember car jackings and kidnappings, and they want big cars to carry lots of relatives to shop or to go to dinner. There are also rules which days you can drive a vehicle (to lessen conjestion) so years ago, some family members would shuffle cars and drivers.


----------



## BigAkoya

jenaywins said:


> They’re all over. All luxury vehicles have entry level trim and then upper, more expensive trim. For Porsche it’s Turbo and Turbo S, Mercedes has AMG, BMW has their M line, and so on & so forth. Typically these reference performance as well as additional bells and whistles.
> 
> There are plenty of folks out there who will buy the entry level vehicles and slap on a fake badge to try to make it appear as if they’ve purchased the higher level vehicle. You can easily buy these badges on eBay, Amazon, etc.
> 
> It’s funny though because those who actually know cars can spot a “fake” easily. There are different hallmarks beyond badging - caliper colours, body trim, etc that the entry level cars don’t have.


I grew up in Miami; fake cars everywhere.  Throw on an AMG label, toss on the M, add an extra tailpipe.


----------



## BigAkoya

880 said:


> Agree. I prefer to buy pieces that I love that are relatively uncommon and not as duplicated. And that’s also how I respond to my family who ask why I don’t buy the dupes.
> 
> I’ve never seen a fake car either. Most of my family lives in the SE Asia. One of my cousins collects cars like the mustang shelby, Ferrari etc. But those are not really used for daily life. Most avoid fancy cars, bc they are older and remember car jackings and kidnappings, and they want big cars to carry lots of relatives to shop or to go to dinner. There are also rules which days you can drive a vehicle (to lessen conjestion) so years ago, some family members would shuffle cars and drivers.


Agree with you, get unique pieces. 

@eletons
I think if you are worried about people thinking you are wearing fake pieces, I would recommend stop buying Alhambra. 
This is a dual-edge sword... you buy Alhambra because it is iconic, and you want people to recognize it.  However, because it is so iconic, there are fakes.  Alhambra is no different than Love.  Tons of real and fake out there. 

For me, I categorize Alhambra and Love in the "logo" jewelry.  If you buy these pieces, you just need to live with the fakes.
If you can't live with it, I would get Frivole, Lotus, and other collections.  Maybe look at other collections aside from Alhambra as you are so worried.  Jewelry is to be enjoyed, not to stress over.


----------



## sassification

eletons said:


> Just got a chance to mingle with a lady in her 50s who can afford to hire driver(a family driver that they hire) and go to nice places. She is very low-key and her choice of jewelry is not recognisable but you can tell they're of high quality and she always wears smart casual clothing without H bags, had no idea what bag she's using.
> 
> I have not had a chance to see ladies around me wearing diamond pieces lately. That's how I know if I had pave piece from vca, they would just stay at home.
> 
> Frivole pave btf ring is very blingy. I tried this one on once. For Lotus collection, I admire the earrings but I doubt if I will add it in my near future. So probably alternating 5 motif bracelet suits my lifestyle better. It's blingy but not in your face blingy.
> 
> You have chosen well. The alternating wg onyx bracelet can be worn from day to night. It can be worn both in summer and winter because of the wg material and the colour of onyx is a neutral colour.


Thank u ♡ i thought longggg and hard about it.. before finally deciding to bite the bullet. The pricd really turned me off initially.. but when i compared with the alternatives that i was considering (Small cartier love pave bangle, vca sweet clovers bangle, regular clover) i realised it wasnt so bad and its really veryy versatile. When i am in a WG mood, i just grab it. In fact, my fren didnt even know it was diamonds, she assumed it was crystals.. haha. So i think dont need to worry about wearing it in that sense?

Diamond bangles are a bit too formal for me.. i really dress down and i like it that way. But i enjoy my jewelleries so nowadays i opt for "daintier" pieces.. 

If i want to really go low-key , i opt for my 5 motif WG MOP bracelet instead. No pave, even more low key


----------



## eletons

BigAkoya said:


> Agree with you, get unique pieces.
> 
> @eletons
> I think if you are worried about people thinking you are wearing fake pieces, I would recommend stop buying Alhambra.
> This is a dual-edge sword... you buy Alhambra because it is iconic, and you want people to recognize it.  However, because it is so iconic, there are fakes.  Alhambra is no different than Love.  Tons of real and fake out there.
> 
> For me, I categorize Alhambra and Love in the "logo" jewelry.  If you buy these pieces, you just need to live with the fakes.
> If you can't live with it, I would get Frivole, Lotus, and other collections.  Maybe look at other collections aside from Alhambra as you are so worried.  Jewelry is to be enjoyed, not to stress over.


I wear a piece of Alhambra daily and sometimes switch to frivole mini poblish version one. I don't worry about people thinking it as a fake but the feeling that people can actually know how much you spend on vca or branded items is not a polite or good feeling. You know sometimes people who know about brands can actually do a bit of mental calculation on all the branded items that you wear. This reflects the impoliteness of the wearers not the observers. But the truth is, for me, I like Alhambra or vca just because I like it not because I want to show how much I spent on a piece of jewelry. I don't think I can switch to another brand easily because vca was the first brand that I went to after I got my first serious paid job. The alluring effect from Alhambra line is the stones. I know I can get the stones somewhere else but I like how vca cut the stones flat. Most jewelry shops make the stones in round shape. I will keep wearing Alhambra but will certainly add pearls from mikimoto to my humble jewelry collection. Not sure what mikimoto is thinking, in NYC flagship store, they carry the actual item that I want but they don't ship worldwide, I ask if I can send courier to pick it up but they couldn't （only ship to US residential address). In my country, the mikimoto store ask me to order it without looking at the actual item, you know, pearls can have different colours, not knowing the actual colour and then blind buy is too risky for me. That's why I got stuck when it comes to my mikimoto purchase.


----------



## Notorious Pink

jenaywins said:


> They’re all over. All luxury vehicles have entry level trim and then upper, more expensive trim. For Porsche it’s Turbo and Turbo S, Mercedes has AMG, BMW has their M line, and so on & so forth. Typically these reference performance as well as additional bells and whistles.
> 
> There are plenty of folks out there who will buy the entry level vehicles and slap on a fake badge to try to make it appear as if they’ve purchased the higher level vehicle. You can easily buy these badges on eBay, Amazon, etc.
> 
> It’s funny though because those who actually know cars can spot a “fake” easily. There are different hallmarks beyond badging - caliper colours, body trim, etc that the entry level cars don’t have.



That’s really funny because I drive an AMG. I think here in NY they do other stuff too, like the matte black which I know my dealer doesnt sell (could be aftermarket though). One pulled up next to me the other day but I put the transmission on S+…he backed off quickly just from the noise, lol.

ETA: FWIW, I didn’t even want the AMG - Sweet DH felt badly when we returned my convertible they didn’t have another one, so this was my “consolation”. He even apologized because it’s white (I only like black or silver/gray cars). My boys love it, but TBH it’s  too much car for me.


----------



## snnysmm

jenaywins said:


> They’re all over. All luxury vehicles have entry level trim and then upper, more expensive trim. For Porsche it’s Turbo and Turbo S, Mercedes has AMG, BMW has their M line, and so on & so forth. Typically these reference performance as well as additional bells and whistles.
> 
> There are plenty of folks out there who will buy the entry level vehicles and slap on a fake badge to try to make it appear as if they’ve purchased the higher level vehicle. You can easily buy these badges on eBay, Amazon, etc.
> 
> It’s funny though because those who actually know cars can spot a “fake” easily. There are different hallmarks beyond badging - caliper colours, body trim, etc that the entry level cars don’t have.


This is so interesting.  I know nothing about cars, but now it makes me want to dive in and do some research.  I learn so much from this forum.


----------



## BigAkoya

cyoo1234 said:


> This is so interesting.  I know nothing about cars, but now it makes me want to dive in and do some research.  I learn so much from this forum.


Yes, the things people do to show off. 

I just replied in another thread about connecting/adding to pieces to “create” a VCA look. For those who have read other posts of mine, you probably know I am a purist and do not like to connect or create pieces.  I like to wear pieces as they are. 

This fake car topic makes a great example…

For those concerned about looking as if they are wearing fakes, I would say connecting/creating VCA pieces could give off that vibe that one is wearing fake VCA.


----------



## Pursi

BigAkoya said:


> Yes, the things people do to show off.
> 
> I just replied in another thread about connecting/adding to pieces to “create” a VCA look. For those who have read other posts of mine, you probably know I am a purist and do not like to connect or create pieces.  I like to wear pieces as they are.
> 
> This fake car topic makes a great example…
> 
> For those concerned about looking as if they are wearing fakes, I would say connecting/creating VCA pieces could give off that vibe that one is wearing fake VCA.


So don't connect two ten motifs? (I'm guilty of this!)


----------



## BigAkoya

Pursi said:


> So don't connect two ten motifs? (I'm guilty of this!)


You should do whatever you love!  Jewelry is for you to love.  It’s all preference, but connecting is a no for me.  I tried it with a 20 + 5, all MOP, and nope, not for me.

Go with your gut. This forum has a lot of great insight to try things. I loved the look at first, but after a few times, my gut told me, “Big Akoya, you look like you’re trying too hard with this Alhambra stuff”, which I was.  Hence, I stopped doing that and just wear my 20.  My gut feels much happier.   

If you love it and also don’t mind seeing the clasps and the look, go for it!


----------



## etoupebirkin

BigAkoya said:


> *Yes, the things people do to show off.*
> 
> I just replied in another thread about connecting/adding to pieces to “create” a VCA look. For those who have read other posts of mine, you probably know I am a purist and do not like to connect or create pieces.  I like to wear pieces as they are.
> 
> This fake car topic makes a great example…
> 
> For those concerned about looking as if they are wearing fakes, I would say connecting/creating VCA pieces could give off that vibe that one is wearing fake VCA.


I just got off an archaeological trip to the Orkney Islands in Scotland. Looked at 5000-year-old ruins. One of the features of all these Stone Age homes was that as soon as you enter the homes, there is an open “dresser” where the inhabitants placed all their treasured items. So as soon as people walked in, visitors saw their stuff. So showing off is as old as time.


----------



## BigAkoya

etoupebirkin said:


> I just got off an archaeological trip to the Orkney Islands in Scotland. Looked at 5000-year-old ruins. One of the features of all these Stone Age homes was that as soon as you enter the homes, there is an open “dresser” where the inhabitants placed all their treasured items. So as soon as people walked in, visitors saw their stuff. So showing off is as old as time.


I bet Scotland was beautiful, and so much history. 

My husband and I keep talking about doing a trip to Scotland and Ireland (my husband is half-Irish, the other half is Euro-Mutt, as he says  ).


----------



## zlauren

etoupebirkin said:


> I just got off an archaeological trip to the Orkney Islands in Scotland. Looked at 5000-year-old ruins. One of the features of all these Stone Age homes was that as soon as you enter the homes, there is an open “dresser” where the inhabitants placed all their treasured items. So as soon as people walked in, visitors saw their stuff. So showing off is as old as time.


Skara Brae? (It's on my travel bucket list)


----------



## BigAkoya

etoupebirkin said:


> I just got off an archaeological trip to the Orkney Islands in Scotland. Looked at 5000-year-old ruins. One of the features of all these Stone Age homes was that as soon as you enter the homes, there is an open “dresser” where the inhabitants placed all their treasured items. So as soon as people walked in, visitors saw their stuff. So showing off is as old as time.


Hi!  I recall you are an awesome baker.  Since you are in Scotland, I have a suggestion if I may... 
Get some fruitcake!  I never liked fruitcake in the U.S.  However, I went to London a few months ago and purchased a Queen's Jubilee Fruitcake.  OMG!  It was delicious.  

Then last week, I was in London again and purchased a little fruitcake from Fortnum and Mason.  I am eating it now with my tea. 
OMG again!  Yummy!  

Maybe you'll see some little fruitcakes in Scotland or wherever you may stop next on your whirlwood vacation!  
If you like them, I am pretty sure you will have fun making them.  

By the way, the Queen's Jubillee Fruitcake had this nice creamy icing on it.  Not quite cream cheese icing, but not quite the usual buttercream.  In between, and it added a nice touch.  

Just a thought for you, Ms. Bakery Chef!


----------



## etoupebirkin

Here’s a good picture from Skara Brae. The ruins are amazingly well preserved.
I LOVED Orkney and Shetland.


zlauren said:


> Skara Brae? (It's on my travel bucket list)


Yes. That was one of the sites. We went to the Ring and Ness of Brodgar, Maeshowe, and the Stones of Stenness too. Since the trip was organized through Harvard University Alumni Travel, the trip included lectures from a tenured Harvard professor. We did walk/hike 6-8 miles per day with multiple 600 ft elevation changes.

@BigAkoya — I did get a recipe for Scottish bannocks. I’ve made them twice. Yummy!!!
Here are pics from Skara Brae, Scotch, and from a magical walk in Shetland.

ETA: To make this post mildly on topic, I brought no VCA with me. I never travel with anything I care about, especially overseas. I had my high top Merrell hiking boots for the daily hikes, and my “dress” shoes, low top Merrells.


----------



## Notorious Pink

Pursi said:


> So don't connect two ten motifs? (I'm guilty of this!)





BigAkoya said:


> You should do whatever you love!  Jewelry is for you to love.  It’s all preference, but connecting is a no for me.  I tried it with a 20 + 5, all MOP, and nope, not for me.
> 
> Go with your gut. This forum has a lot of great insight to try things. I loved the look at first, but after a few times, my gut told me, “Big Akoya, you look like you’re trying too hard with this Alhambra stuff”, which I was.  Hence, I stopped doing that and just wear my 20.  My gut feels much happier.
> 
> If you love it and also don’t mind seeing the clasps and the look, go for it!


As soon as I pick up my 5 motif SO I plan to connect it to my 20, but in a very particular way, with the 5 at the front of my neck and the 20 hanging long. I have tried this look, and what I plan to do is buy two extenders for each side of the 5 motif, to go wrap behind my neck. I know exactly where the clasps will go, and no one will see them, as they will be under my hair (and if you wear any collared shirt you wouldnt even see more than 2-3 motifs, anyway).


----------



## nycmamaofone

etoupebirkin said:


> I just got off an archaeological trip to the Orkney Islands in Scotland. Looked at 5000-year-old ruins. One of the features of all these Stone Age homes was that as soon as you enter the homes, there is an open “dresser” where the inhabitants placed all their treasured items. So as soon as people walked in, visitors saw their stuff. So showing off is as old as time.


So cool! I adore Frankenstein by Mary Shelley and she features a scene in the Orkneys.


----------



## Florasun

Notorious Pink said:


> Girllllll, I write for a little outfit called PurseBlog! You might have heard of them, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the World of Counterfeit Goods Enters the Conversation - PurseBlog
> 
> 
> A recent article in The Cut highlighted ladies who prefer to buy counterfeits. Counterfeit bags are immoral, unethical and illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.purseblog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FYI I get reamed in the comments. There were a few really nasty attacks on my personal appearance which I think got removed.


I saw the original Cut article and loved your thoughtful response! 

I ran across RepLadies by accident, and after seeing photos of the goods, I swore to myself that I was never, ever, buying a luxury item on the secondary market again. Cut to this week, when I purchased a small VCA item (for reasons), and am now plagued by doubt. I'm thinking about sending it back. 
FYI, the RepLadies sub was shut down, but in the post announcing the closure, members were directed to a different replica sub. Additionally, there are other fashion replica subs on Reddit that cater to a different type of consumer (sportswear and expensive sneakers).


----------



## tenshix

Florasun said:


> I saw the original Cut article and loved your thoughtful response!
> 
> I ran across RepLadies by accident, and after seeing photos of the goods, I swore to myself that I was never, ever, buying a luxury item on the secondary market again. Cut to this week, when I purchased a small VCA item (for reasons), and am now plagued by doubt. I'm thinking about sending it back.
> FYI, the RepLadies sub was shut down, but in the post announcing the closure, members were directed to a different replica sub. Additionally, there are other fashion replica subs on Reddit that cater to a different type of consumer (sportswear and expensive sneakers).



If you are having doubts about the item I would send it back. Jewelry should make you happy and not stress you out IMO. If I don’t have peace about what I’m wearing I would just let it go.

Very strange that they would shut down the sub but then redirect them to another one.. Was it originally shut down for legal reasons? Or because of the media attention they garnered from the articles? I don’t know what Reddit’s rules are but I would think that encouraging illegal behavior shouldn’t be allowed..


----------



## Florasun

tenshix said:


> If you are having doubts about the item I would send it back. Jewelry should make you happy and not stress you out IMO. If I don’t have peace about what I’m wearing I would just let it go.
> 
> Very strange that they would shut down the sub but then redirect them to another one.. Was it originally shut down for legal reasons? Or because of the media attention they garnered from the articles? I don’t know what Reddit’s rules are but I would think that encouraging illegal behavior shouldn’t be allowed..


Thanks! - I think I will send it back. I can buy it from Van Cleef for not very much more - it is worth the peace of mind.
In the comments, it was mentioned that repladies was shut down because of the article, but no specific details were given. It must not have been due to legal reasons, since there are other subreddits that do the same thing - if it was shut down for legal reasons, it seems like they would have been shut down as well.


----------



## tenshix

Florasun said:


> Thanks! - I think I will send it back. I can buy it from Van Cleef for not very much more - it is worth the peace of mind.
> In the comments, it was mentioned that repladies was shut down because of the article, but no specific details were given. It must not have been due to legal reasons, since there are other subreddits that do the same thing - if it was shut down for legal reasons, it seems like they would have been shut down as well.


Agreed I think it’s worth the peace of mind!

I see, I wonder if they ended up getting a lot of bad press or online bullying because of the article.


----------



## missie1

Saw this on instagram


----------



## saligator

BigAkoya said:


> Yes, the things people do to show off.
> 
> I just replied in another thread about connecting/adding to pieces to “create” a VCA look. For those who have read other posts of mine, you probably know I am a purist and do not like to connect or create pieces.  I like to wear pieces as they are.
> 
> This fake car topic makes a great example…
> 
> For those concerned about looking as if they are wearing fakes, I would say connecting/creating VCA pieces could give off that vibe that one is wearing fake VCA.



That's great! In this economic climate, I do not care if people think I have fakes.


----------



## lucky7355

tenshix said:


> If you are having doubts about the item I would send it back. Jewelry should make you happy and not stress you out IMO. If I don’t have peace about what I’m wearing I would just let it go.
> 
> Very strange that they would shut down the sub but then redirect them to another one.. Was it originally shut down for legal reasons? Or because of the media attention they garnered from the articles? I don’t know what Reddit’s rules are but I would think that encouraging illegal behavior shouldn’t be allowed..


It was shut down for the media attention. Reddit shut down the BST pages, but they didn’t care about the discussion subs.


----------



## EpiFanatic

missie1 said:


> Saw this on instagram
> 
> View attachment 5603719


Can you share the account missie?  I love it!  Like @salligator says go ahead and think I’m wearing a fake. Nvm. I see it!


----------



## Junkenpo

missie1 said:


> Saw this on instagram


Wow!   I bet there are actually quite a few stalls like that in cities where fakes/"inspired" jewelry or purses are sold on the street like that. I'm curious what the street price is.  I see stores on Etsy that offer "clover motif" jewelry open and close and it's rather pricey for fashion-quality and not fine jewelry in 14k or 18k.  You know the quality of these street fakes are probably like Claire's or Forever 21 level.   If it is really cheap, then it becomes easy, disposable fun fashion. No worries if it breaks or is lost.


----------



## zlauren

Where I live, there are VCA reproductions sold in mall stalls and they are indeed cheap like Claire's. (There are also better quality reps in actual gold in the jewelry shop windows from time to time.)


----------

