# Entrupy is not dependable!



## BeenBurned

Since I'd first heard about Entrupy and its "ability" to authenticate through computer algorithms, I had doubts about the dependability, but not having seen evidence in brands I know of mistakes, I couldn't be sure. 

After what I saw today, I offer a strong caveat because if a mistake can be made on such an obvious Coach fake, I have no doubt that they make mistakes on other brands and AAA/5-star fakes! 

This post from @Hyacinth has a picture of the certificate (and I'm comfortable enough to believe that Goodwill did NOT forge the cert) and the fake bag: 
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...ost-for-format.889527/page-2352#post-32967529

This is the Goodwill listing:
https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/64522716


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## BeenBurned

Here's another thread on the same subject: 
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...-accuracy-of-computer-authentications.968364/


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## whateve

If the computer was programmed right, it would have been easy to catch that mistake. Obviously they aren't looking at the same details that we do in order to determine authenticity. I believe I read that they look at things like stitch length and material grain. If they aren't checking things like numbers and fonts, I imagine lots of fakes slip by them.


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## Hyacinth

whateve said:


> If the computer was programmed right, it would have been easy to catch that mistake. Obviously they aren't looking at the same details that we do in order to determine authenticity. I believe I read that they look at things like stitch length and material grain. If they aren't checking things like numbers and fonts, I imagine lots of fakes slip by them.



That's why I can't understand why they would even bother with older Coach styles. Not just because they're usually too inexpensive to even warrant that kind of paid authentication, but where are they getting their baseline examples from? How do they know THOSE are genuine? Older Coaches were hand-sewn and there were always variations in things like stitch length and even leather grain, and that's just the things that their computers and lasers can supposedly measure. What happens when they get into the REAL variations, like what's shown in the example BeenBurned posted? 

I can only speak confidently about classic and vintageCoach products, but as an authenticator here at tPF, just my text files on Coach covering things like valid and invalid date and plant codes are long and complicated, and the idea that any computer algorithm could use them effectively, if they even had access to them, is totally ridiculous. And that's not even including my photos files which are massive. The other Coach authenticators have the same kind of library and we all refer to those files almost every day since Coach authentication can hang on something as miniscule and almost unmeasureable as the exact length of an underscore or hyphen. And then there are the known and suspected fake serial numbers or serial prefixes, which Entrupy proved in the above example that they're totally clueless about. 

Any computer program that its creators claim can tell the difference between a genuine and a fake Coach, ESPECIALLY an older one, is a waste of electrons and a danger to anyone depending on it for making buying decisions. There's absolutely NO way I would ever accept or depend on any so-called authentication for a pre-2000 Coach product. I'm amazed that Goodwill is wasting their money by tossing it at a company that is incapable of giving them the "computer-based" services that Goodwill is paying for. If Entrupy is authenticating older or vintage Coaches they're not using any kind of computer system to do it unless they're just searching Google for similar style numbers, which is what any fly-by-night "authentication service" does. And they'll be making just as many mistakes.


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## bababebi

A client sent me for authentication a Kelly purchased on eBay that came with an Entrupy certificate of authentication. The bag was stitched backwards from an authentic one. Very obvious counterfeit.


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## BeenBurned

Is there even a was to contact them to let them know of errors?


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## BeenBurned

^^^ it should say, "is there a WAY to contact them?"


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## urma

BeenBurned said:


> Is there even a was to contact them to let them know of errors?





BeenBurned said:


> ^^^ it should say, "is there a WAY to contact them?"


There is a YouTube video by Escala Manila promoting this device on which I commented. The "Director of Business Development" at Entrupy then replied to my comment, claiming that their algorithm is 99,1% accurate and that it's still improving constantly through machine learning, using "over 100 Million images from diverse sources from all over the world" (which doesn't make sense at all, I find).

She also gave me her email address, in case I should have further questions. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to paste her contact information in here, but you'll find it in her comment under the video: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwitpYiyv_rgAhVBJ1AKHWT8At0QtwIwAHoECAoQAQ&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiGapz44Odg&usg=AOvVaw03Q_S7FSvXIlU4CNIbEDmW
The account name is "Entrupy".


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## BeenBurned

urma said:


> using "over 100 Million images from diverse sources from all over the world" (which doesn't make sense at all, I find).


If the images "from diverse sources from all over the world" aren't of authentic items (and clearly, they don't know), what good is their algorithm?


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## urma

BeenBurned said:


> If the images "from diverse sources from all over the world" aren't of authentic items (and clearly, they don't know), what good is their algorithm?


Exactly!


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## Hyacinth

BeenBurned said:


> If the images "from diverse sources from all over the world" aren't of authentic items (and clearly, they don't know), what good is their algorithm?



You got it!

And with as many AAA and Superfakes that we've seen not just with Coach but especially with brands like LV, Chanel, Hermes, etc, the only photo sources I would even trust, and only on recent styles, would be photos supplied directly by the manufacturer. I seriously doubt if Entrupy would be given access to photos like that. As for Coach, throw all the thousands of possible valid and invalid Coach serial number, creed and font variations and even a Cray supercomputer couldn't handle OR analyze all the variables, much less have access to them. Sometimes, luckily not often, we three regular Coach authenticators don't even agree, or will go through two or three pages of posted photos and information before narrowing down the possibilities.

And depending on photos from  "diverse sources from all over the world"??? That's just asking for trouble.


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## urma

And they are certainly not cheap!
https://www.entrupy.com/entrupy-pricing/


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## bearhead

urma said:


> And they are certainly not cheap!
> https://www.entrupy.com/entrupy-pricing/


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## lovlouisvuitton

urma said:


> And they are certainly not cheap!
> https://www.entrupy.com/entrupy-pricing/



  - Speechless!


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## Hyacinth

urma said:


> And they are certainly not cheap!
> https://www.entrupy.com/entrupy-pricing/



So it probably cost the GW store with the listing linked in the first post between 15 and 20 dollars EACH to "authenticate" a lot of 2 vintage Coaches that sold for 42 dollars and change, and one of them was fake. NOT what I'd call an effective return on their investment.

I've seen some GW listings from various stores that mention using a professional service and others that don't. Wonder if it's a company-wide thing or if each store can choose whether or not to participate? When it comes to well-used vintage Coaches that often sell for less than 30 dollars, it feels to me like a waste of money, especially if this is an example of Entrupy's track record with those kinds of "Coach". Goodwill could flip a coin or use a Ouija board and have the same kind of accuracy, as well as saving the 15 or 20 dollar authentication cost.


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## whateve

Hyacinth said:


> So it probably cost the GW store with the listing linked in the first post between 15 and 20 dollars EACH to "authenticate" a lot of 2 vintage Coaches that sold for 42 dollars and change, and one of them was fake. NOT what I'd call an effective return on their investment.
> 
> I've seen some GW listings from various stores that mention using a professional service and others that don't. Wonder if it's a company-wide thing or if each store can choose whether or not to participate? When it comes to well-used vintage Coaches that often sell for less than 30 dollars, it feels to me like a waste of money, especially if this is an example of Entrupy's track record with those kinds of "Coach". Goodwill could flip a coin or use a Ouija board and have the same kind of accuracy, as well as saving the 15 or 20 dollar authentication cost.


I'm pretty sure that the services Goodwill uses are determined by region. I shop at Goodwills in lots of different places. The stores that are within the same region, such as Goodwill Southern California (which just covers the LA area) or Goodwill of Southern Nevada, are usually fairly uniform but vary widely from Goodwills in other areas in policy and pricing. If you subscribe to a Goodwill discount card, it only works in the region you got it in. I don't think there is much national oversight.


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## Shoppinmel

I just watched a story on the KTLA channel 5 news about this wonderful app that tells Goodwill if their luxury items are real or fake. I had never heard of this before, but couldn't believe it! What a joke!


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## QuelleFromage

This tech just isn't possible without the cooperation of the manufacturers, who change identifying details fairly often to deter counterfeiters. I'm so surprised it's gotten traction at all.


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## Metalblond

I've never bought a pre-loved Hermes bag so I'm not really in the know about this, but I recently spoke with someone who bought a pre-loved bag that was authenticated by a software called Entrupy?  Apparently this software guarantees resellers and buyers that the bags are authentic.  I guess it's also been mentioned in the Robb Report and Bloomberg.  Has anyone ever heard of it? I'm wondering if it is worth anything if you are thinking of selling your bags?  Sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum...  it's my first post outside of a reply.


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## jellyv

Try using the Search feature. There are at least four threads on this, and numerous posts. The most recent and relevant to your question is here:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/entrupy-is-not-dependable.1006960/


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## Metalblond

jellyv said:


> Try using the Search feature. There are at least four threads on this, and numerous posts. The most recent and relevant to your question is here:
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/entrupy-is-not-dependable.1006960/


Thanks so much Jellyv.   I was looking through Hermes forums and didn't think to look elsewhere.  It seems most people are as skeptical of this as I am.  Anyway, thanks for steering me in the right direction.


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## stillfabulous

Please disregard this reply.


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## BeenBurned

*BEWARE!! *And yes, I am YELLING!!

Although I've been uncomfortable from the getgo about the accuracy of a computer program in doing authentications, I knew it was a matter of time before we'd see Entrupy make a mistake on a brand I know.

And this is an obvious fake!

I authenticated (as fake) a bag in this post:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...ost-for-format.889527/page-2497#post-33124549

and this is the response 2 different members got from Goodwill when they informed Goodwill of the fake:

https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...ost-for-format.889527/page-2498#post-33126410
and
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...ost-for-format.889527/page-2498#post-33126433

Again, *BEWARE!! *If Entrupy can make this kind of error on an obvious fake, imagine the damage they can do and the money they'll cost buyers who trust them in authenticating mirror fakes.


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## LovelyLillyGirl

Wow


bababebi said:


> A client sent me for authentication a Kelly purchased on eBay that came with an Entrupy certificate of authentication. The bag was stitched backwards from an authentic one. Very obvious counterfeit.



Wow. That is frightening. I wonder how or if  Entrupy will ever improve this flaw? Stitching, font, and stamp placement are so critical to view and examine in person.


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## Hyacinth

LovelyLillyGirl said:


> Wow
> 
> 
> Wow. That is frightening. I wonder how or if  Entrupy will ever improve this flaw? Stitching, font, and stamp placement are so critical to view and examine in person.



Correct stitching is one of those details that Entrupy's computer program is supposed to be able to analyze even better than humans can. Now we see what a pile of horse poop THAT is.

And in the example from Goodwill that BeenBurned mentioned, their precious computer program can't even tell when a "Coach" has a stamped style number that doesn't even match the style of the bag!


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## LovelyLillyGirl

Hyacinth said:


> Now we see what a pile of horse poop THAT is


That is hilarious! 

You find entrupy certificates a lot more often now, especially on eBay. I'm sticking with the pearls of wisdom of Bababebi. Nothing beats the trained eye to analyze the finer and more intricate details.


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## QuelleFromage

Entrup doesn't make any sense. Let's suppose I am Hermès. I change a detail on a specific bag in order to deter counterfeiters.
Am I going to give this information to a third-party tech company in which I have zero investment? No, I am not, I am going to keep it quiet.
Which means that most if not all details the Entrupy software use to determine authenticity have been INPUT by a human being. The idea being that software can then replicate this human knowledge (which is already fallible) at scale. 
The potential for error in a construct like this is just huge.


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## whateve

QuelleFromage said:


> Entrup doesn't make any sense. Let's suppose I am Hermès. I change a detail on a specific bag in order to deter counterfeiters.
> Am I going to give this information to a third-party tech company in which I have zero investment? No, I am not, I am going to keep it quiet.
> Which means that most if not all details the Entrupy software use to determine authenticity have been INPUT by a human being. The idea being that software can then replicate this human knowledge (which is already fallible) at scale.
> The potential for error in a construct like this is just huge.


I agree, but I think the main problem is that they are only focusing on a small number of things, like the length of stitches. As an authenticator, I rarely consider the length of stitches. It's like they are looking at minute details and missing the big picture, like the color of the lining. The number one thing we check in Coach are creeds. We check that the number and wording matches the style and era. We check the font and spacing of the letters and numbers. This is something I believe a computer could be programmed to do but apparently whoever designed the program didn't think it was important.


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## QuelleFromage

whateve said:


> I agree, but I think the main problem is that they are only focusing on a small number of things, like the length of stitches. As an authenticator, I rarely consider the length of stitches. It's like they are looking at minute details and missing the big picture, like the color of the lining. The number one thing we check in Coach are creeds. We check that the number and wording matches the style and era. We check the font and spacing of the letters and numbers. This is something I believe a computer could be programmed to do but apparently whoever designed the program didn't think it was important.


Exactly. The things I use to authenticate Hermès have little to do with stitching, they are very small details, and in addition to those, how will this program know for instance that xxx color had xxx resin in xxx year? Or assess the way leather falls?


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## plue89

urma said:


> There is a YouTube video by Escala Manila promoting this device on which I commented. The "Director of Business Development" at Entrupy then replied to my comment, claiming that their algorithm is 99,1% accurate and that it's still improving constantly through machine learning, using "over 100 Million images from diverse sources from all over the world" (which doesn't make sense at all, I find).
> 
> She also gave me her email address, in case I should have further questions. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to paste her contact information in here, but you'll find it in her comment under the video: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwitpYiyv_rgAhVBJ1AKHWT8At0QtwIwAHoECAoQAQ&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiGapz44Odg&usg=AOvVaw03Q_S7FSvXIlU4CNIbEDmW
> The account name is "Entrupy".



Late reply only just saw this thread. Funny enough the said youtuber accidentally bought a fake lv speedyB from japan and had to return it after she compared it with her friend’s. And she then went and said she has entrupy and offers authentication services lol seriously thought that was trolling


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## Hyacinth

For anyone keeping score, Entrupy just blew ANOTHER "authentication" of a Coach bag, courtesy of our friends at Goodwill:

https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...oach-fakes-here.824098/page-416#post-33269835

Going just from memory, I seem to recall maybe 7 or 8 times when Entrupy got it wrong, and only one time they actually got one right. There are four sets of listing photos in my files along with a photo of the Entrupy certificate and every one is a fake that probably could have been spotted just by Googling the style number! I'd LOVE to see more Coach listings with photos of the Entrupy certificate just to add to my files.

I don't know their track record with other brands, but their track record for Coach bags STINKS.


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## BeenBurned

Hyacinth said:


> For anyone keeping score, Entrupy just blew ANOTHER "authentication" of a Coach bag, courtesy of our friends at Goodwill:
> 
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...oach-fakes-here.824098/page-416#post-33269835
> 
> Going just from memory, I seem to recall maybe 7 or 8 times when Entrupy got it wrong, and only one time they actually got one right. There are four sets of listing photos in my files along with a photo of the Entrupy certificate and every one is a fake that probably could have been spotted just by Googling the style number! I'd LOVE to see more Coach listings with photos of the Entrupy certificate just to add to my files.
> 
> I don't know their track record with other brands, but their track record for Coach bags STINKS.


And here's a huge consequence of Entrupy inaccurately authenticating items they know nothing about. The problem snowballs!

Entrupy (knowingly or not) misauthenticates items, Goodwill (knowingly or not) sells those fakes giving buyers a false sense of security by providing them with a "COA," and those buyers flip their purchases, further ripping off new buyers.

One of the fakes we saw back in March (on AT Coach) was reported to Goodwill who refused to accept that their "professional" authenticator, Entrupy made a mistake. So the listing sold.

The same fake bag with the same Entrupy certificate (with shopgoodwill's name redacted) is being resold.

I posted here:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...oach-fakes-here.824098/page-416#post-33271488


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## Miss Dale

This is frightening. I am having an issue with a bag I purchased through Luxe du Jour. Two authenticators that I paid, said the bag was fake. However, the authenticators used by Luxe du Jour and Entrupy say the bag is real. They told me, that because Entrupy confirmed the bag as authentic, they will not issue a refund, or exchange the bag. They are acting as though Entrupy does not make a mistake, yet here you are providing proof that they do !!  Now, I am the one stuck with this bag.


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## BeenBurned

Miss Dale said:


> This is frightening. I am having an issue with a bag I purchased through Luxe du Jour. Two authenticators that I paid, said the bag was fake. However, the authenticators used by Luxe du Jour and Entrupy say the bag is real. They told me, that because Entrupy confirmed the bag as authentic, they will not issue a refund, or exchange the bag. They are acting as though Entrupy does not make a mistake, yet here you are providing proof that they do !!  Now, I am the one stuck with this bag.


IMO, you have good reason to be concerned! There is absolutely no doubt that the Coach fakes we saw were obvious fakes. 
Did you pay with a credit card? If so, file a dispute with the card company and if they need proof, submit your 2 authentications.


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## Smoothoprter

BeenBurned said:


> And here's a huge consequence of Entrupy inaccurately authenticating items they know nothing about. The problem snowballs!
> 
> Entrupy (knowingly or not) misauthenticates items, Goodwill (knowingly or not) sells those fakes giving buyers a false sense of security by providing them with a "COA," and those buyers flip their purchases, further ripping off new buyers.
> 
> One of the fakes we saw back in March (on AT Coach) was reported to Goodwill who refused to accept that their "professional" authenticator, Entrupy made a mistake. So the listing sold.
> 
> The same fake bag with the same Entrupy certificate (with shopgoodwill's name redacted) is being resold.
> 
> I posted here:
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...oach-fakes-here.824098/page-416#post-33271488


I've reported a few times to Goodwill "Chanel" items that they listed as authentic (with Entrupy certificates) that were obvious fakes and they never got pulled.


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## BeenBurned

NM


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## Miss Dale

BeenBurned said:


> IMO, you have good reason to be concerned! There is absolutely no doubt that the Coach fakes we saw were obvious fakes.
> Did you pay with a credit card? If so, file a dispute with the card company and if they need proof, submit your 2 authentications.



Unfortunately, I did not use a credit card. I will have it authenticated again and take it from there. I really hope the bag is authentic, I absolutely  love it. Thank you


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## corbe

I am too believe that entrupy os not dependable. I ordered a LV alma bb from oliver jewellery. After i got it, i compared it with my other purse and the canvas and rivets looks oddly different. Since i purchased it the link was gone. I used proauthenticators and they deemed the bag is fake. Now they tested the bag and showed me the entrupy certificate!


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## Smoothoprter

Since it's been noted that Shopgoodwill uses the Entrupy machines, I wonder if this terrible fake bag was authenticated using Entrupy as the listing states "CONDITION: like new, comes with COA, *internal authenticated*, please refer to pictures, if you need more pictures or have any questions please message us prior to placing a bid, we will not remove any bids, “this is a final sale”". [Btw, I have reported this as fake to  shopgoodwill on Saturday and it has not been taken down].

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/80963389


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## BeenBurned

Smoothoprter said:


> Since it's been noted that Shopgoodwill uses the Entrupy machines, I wonder if this terrible fake bag was authenticated using Entrupy as the listing states "CONDITION: like new, comes with COA, *internal authenticated*, please refer to pictures, if you need more pictures or have any questions please message us prior to placing a bid, we will not remove any bids, “this is a final sale”". [Btw, I have reported this as fake to  shopgoodwill on Saturday and it has not been taken down].
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/80963389


A pet peeve of mine is that you have to open an account on shopgoodwill in order to contact them or to report. 

As for Entrupy authentications, with Coach, they usually show the certificate in their listings. My guess with regard to the fake Chanel is that they now have an in-house "expert!"


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## whateve

Smoothoprter said:


> Since it's been noted that Shopgoodwill uses the Entrupy machines, I wonder if this terrible fake bag was authenticated using Entrupy as the listing states "CONDITION: like new, comes with COA, *internal authenticated*, please refer to pictures, if you need more pictures or have any questions please message us prior to placing a bid, we will not remove any bids, “this is a final sale”". [Btw, I have reported this as fake to  shopgoodwill on Saturday and it has not been taken down].
> 
> https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/80963389


Wow, bidding is already over $4500. I know nothing about Chanel but just searching the number shows it has been used on several fakes.


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## Smoothoprter

whateve said:


> Wow, bidding is already over $4500. I know nothing about Chanel but just searching the number shows it has been used on several fakes.


Right?! Well, I just received a message by email stating that they closed the listing.


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## BeenBurned

Smoothoprter said:


> Right?! Well, I just received a message by email stating that they closed the listing.


That must be because they used their in-house authenticator. They don't do that when Entrupy has authenticated.


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## vernis-lover

corbe said:


> I am too believe that entrupy os not dependable. I ordered a LV alma bb from oliver jewellery. After i got it, i compared it with my other purse and the canvas and rivets looks oddly different. Since i purchased it the link was gone. I used proauthenticators and they deemed the bag is fake. Now they tested the bag and showed me the entrupy certificate!


Can you post a single photo of the Alma heatstamp (made in)? It's blurry when I enlarge your screenshot but the font looks way off.


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## Hyacinth

BeenBurned said:


> That must be because they used their in-house authenticator. They don't do that when Entrupy has authenticated.



Gotta love how the Chanel name on the case that held the "authenticity papers" is both crooked AND off-center. Looks like the Titanic about an hour before she took her final plunge.
https://sgwproductimages.azureedge.net/100/11-27-2019/605617727135733Zeia.JPG


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## corbe

here is the pictures:






vernis-lover said:


> Can you post a single photo of the Alma heatstamp (made in)? It's blurry when I enlarge your screenshot but the font looks way off.


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## Gabs007

Miss Dale said:


> This is frightening. I am having an issue with a bag I purchased through Luxe du Jour. Two authenticators that I paid, said the bag was fake. However, the authenticators used by Luxe du Jour and Entrupy say the bag is real. They told me, that because Entrupy confirmed the bag as authentic, they will not issue a refund, or exchange the bag. They are acting as though Entrupy does not make a mistake, yet here you are providing proof that they do !!  Now, I am the one stuck with this bag.



Depending how you paid, can you contact your credit card company with the authentication you paid for?


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## Hyacinth

Another example of an Entrupy mistake with a Coach authentication






						Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**
					

IMPORTANT READ-ME  Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please. For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.  Please follow the following requests:  Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this...




					forum.purseblog.com
				




Not only is the serial number on the best-known Coach fake serial numbers list, but whichever of Entrupy's "authenticators" looked at this one had better invest in a dictionary. Unless "SCRTCHES" is now accepted English usage.


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## Smoothoprter

Hyacinth said:


> Another example of an Entrupy mistake with a Coach authentication
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**
> 
> 
> IMPORTANT READ-ME  Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please. For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.  Please follow the following requests:  Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.purseblog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not only is the serial number on the best-known Coach fake serial numbers list, but whichever of Entrupy's "authenticators" looked at this one had better invest in a dictionary. Unless "SCRTCHES" is now accepted English usage.



LOL at "SCRTCHES"


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## jmc3007

AI Is a New Weapon in the Battle Against Counterfeits
					

Algorithms that can spot features invisible to the human eye are helping to protect retailers and shoppers from a glut of fake goods.




					www.wsj.com
				





When Olivia Matthaei, a consignment store sales clerk, needs to check whether a designer handbag is authentic, she knows the drill. She grabs a custom camera with a microscope lens provided by Entrupy, a New York-based artificial-intelligence startup. The shape of a bulky battery pack, it pops onto an iPhone or iPod. She opens the Entrupy app and selects a brand from a list.

The app guides her through taking photos of different parts of the bag, such as specific areas of the fabric and logo, as she presses the camera against the material. It normally takes a user three to five minutes to go through the authentication process, but she is faster because the store, Opulent Habits, in Madison, N.J., has been using the app since 2018.
“I can do it in less than a minute at this point,” Ms. Matthaei says.

While developing the algorithms behind their tech, Entrupy’s founders spent years collecting authentic and fake bags to teach the algorithm how to tell the difference between the two, down to details that most humans would have a hard time spotting. Entrupy still has stacks of fancy handbags, most of them fakes, surrounding their engineers’ workstations at its Manhattan office, which has been closed since March because of the coronavirus pandemic.






*Entrupy’s camera fits onto a phone and magnifies the fabric of a bag, making features invisible to the eye become clear in the resulting images.*
PHOTO: JESSICA PETTWAY FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
The lens on Entrupy’s camera magnifies the fabric at least 100 times, making features in the material that are invisible to the eye become clear in the resulting images. Depending on the bag, the AI will check 500 to 1,500 features, such as color, stitching and the pattern of pores in leather. A result pops up in the app in anywhere from 60 seconds to an hour, depending on the brand. With each use, the algorithm becomes a little smarter.
“This is an ideal case for AI,” says Anima Anandkumar, a computer-science professor at California Institute of Technology and director of machine-learning research at chip maker NvidiaCorp. who wasn’t involved in the development of Entrupy’s app.

Machine learning works by viewing hundreds or thousands of examples, in this case both real and fake bags, and learning to spot what delineates the two. 
The technology is already used in manufacturing to find defects and could be used in a similar way to find counterfeits, says Ms. Anandkumar. Unlike humans, it is able to examine thousands of examples of properly made products and consider billions of data points to find problems, she says. 
Today, the process is expensive and time-consuming, not least because it involves collecting real and fake items. In the future, researchers could use AI techniques—such as generative adversarial networks, which create realistic images, or transfer learning, where a model trained to detect one item could train a new model to detect similar items—to speed up the process and bring costs down, says Ms. Anandkumar.
Eventually, the technology could be adapted to other products. Vidyuth Srinivasan, Entrupy’s co-founder and chief executive, wants to expand into verifying industrial goods, electronics, food, medicine and more. 
There is a lot to catch. The counterfeit market is worth over $500 billion and makes up around 3.3% of world trade, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.




*Vidyuth Srinivasan, Entrupy’s co-founder and chief executive, at the startup’s office in New York.*
PHOTO: JESSICA PETTWAY FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Mr. Srinivasan, Ashlesh Sharma and Lakshminarayanan Subramanian started Entrupy in 2012, and spent the next four years collecting data. Entrupy employees bought and returned so many bags that they ended up being blacklisted by some stores, says Mr. Srinivasan. For counterfeits, they would go to China and come back with suitcases full of imitations.
Today, Entrupy’s app can check 15 designer brands, from Gucci to Chanel. Prices start at $99 a month for up to five checks monthly and go up to tens of thousands of dollars for annual subscriptions that cover hundreds of tests. Entrupy says it has sold about 900 of its cameras to customers in 65 countries, including Dubai’s department of economic development, eBayInc. and Goodwill Industries International Inc.

Stores pay the fees to protect their reputations with customers and avoid the costs of acquiring counterfeits. In some cases, they can charge more for bags that are authenticated. Forgeries have outsmarted Entrupy’s algorithms about 0.01% of the time, Mr. Srinivasan says. If a customer buys a bag that later turns out to be counterfeit, and the app missed it, the company says it will buy it for the same purchase price.

Gucci and Chanel didn’t respond to requests for comment. 

Launched in 2015, the online sneaker marketplace GOAT uses machine learning to pinpoint counterfeits among the million or so listings that are up at any given time, says CEO Eddy Lu.

Once sellers accept a buyer’s bid for a pair of shoes, they ship them to one of eight GOAT centers around the world. There, AI scans for microscopic deviations in the item, assisting human authenticators who feel, weigh and even smell the shoes. “The glue that Nike uses is different than what other factories use,” Mr. Lu says.





*Eddy Lu, the chief executive of online sneaker marketplace GOAT, at a conference in June 2019. The company uses AI and humans to uncover counterfeit shoes.*
PHOTO: DAVID PAUL MORRIS/BLOOMBERG NEWS
If the shoes are real, they are sent to the buyer. GOAT offers to send back or destroy shoes that didn’t pass its tests. AI speeds up the process, but it is impossible to train algorithms to keep up with new shoe styles that debut every week, Mr. Lu says. Eventually each new sneaker gets the AI treatment, but even then, Mr. Lu says, there is no current AI that can replicate all the different checks that the human authenticators look for.

Counterfeit goods also show up on Amazon, where more than half of physical merchandise sales in 2019 were from third-party sellers, according to the company.

Last year, Amazon released Project Zero, an AI-driven anticounterfeiting program for brands that aims to automatically remove bogus goods from the site. Brands provide Amazon with logos, trademarks and other data, which the AI uses to look for suspected counterfeits among the billions of product listings.

“Amazon strictly prohibits the sale of counterfeit products, and we invest heavily in both funds and company energy to ensure our policy is followed,” Amazon spokeswoman Cecilia Fan said in a statement.

Other online marketplaces have anticounterfeiting measures in place. Shopgoodwill.com, a website set up in 1999 to let Goodwill stores in the U.S. and Canada sell their most lucrative donations online, includes Entrupy certificates with each handbag. The scans let 80 Goodwill locations that use the site list handbags for more money, says Ryan Smith, the senior technology services director at Goodwill of Orange County, which runs the website.

At Opulent Habits, New Jersey’s shutdown order has changed business—the shop now sells its goods curbside. Owner Darcy Ginsberg scans about 60 bags a month and finds a fake about once every four months. That number is lower now that counterfeiters know she is using Entrupy, she says. In 2019, 9.6% of Entrupy scans were fakes, down from 15% in 2017, according to company data.

“It’s a huge confidence booster for customers,” Ms. Ginsberg says. “It puts them at ease.”


----------



## BeenBurned

^^^ That article is nonsense because although it's current, Entrupy still hasn't updated its algorithms and is still making mistakes.

The way AI is supposed to work is that when they make mistakes, they're supposed to update their data to fix the errors and account for anomalies. As shown by @Hyacinth's post above (as recently as Jun 24, 2020), Entrupy was still deeming Coach fakes as genuine. (And these are NOT close fakes. None of the mistakes we've seen on Coach are excusable nor can they be attributed to being close.)

Many of the fakes we've seen on the Coach subforum are from Goodwill, Salvation Army and from resellers who bought from Goodwill. 

For the prices that customers are paying at Opulent Habits and some of the other luxury resellers, they'd darned well better make sure that Entrupy got it right.


----------



## whateve

It doesn't make sense that they were buying up counterfeits. They should only need authentic examples, then if something doesn't match the authentic examples, it can be deemed fake. If something matches a counterfeit, it doesn't mean it is counterfeit - it could mean the counterfeit matches the authentic item in that respect.


----------



## jmc3007

I've been following their progress over the years but TBH not holding much faith in their AI or processes. it's a classic case of a business facing an industry wide problem so let's throw some Silicon Valley dudes who know how to code into it and they should be able to lick it in no time, and yeah get money from various VC dudes while they're at it. the article mentions that they've only built up about 15 brands in 5 years or something? as we all know, it takes a lot more than just coding prowess to address the issues. their lack of understanding, I mean a genuine understanding, of the highly proprietary ecosystem of brand names, super fakes, bad fakes and everything in between, is holding back any real progress. their AI shortcoming is thinking that it's a problem with binary answers (yes or no) and clearly it's multifaceted with decision trees looking more like a Monte Carlo simulation (aka deeply complex). I doubt if they would ever have the cooperation of the brand themselves, so they will always lack first hand knowledge and expertise which is critical to building a successful AI algorithm.


----------



## LovelyLillyGirl

jmc3007 said:


> I've been following their progress over the years but TBH not holding much faith in their AI or processes. it's a classic case of a business facing an industry wide problem so let's throw some Silicon Valley dudes who know how to code into it and they should be able to lick it in no time, and yeah get money from various VC dudes while they're at it. the article mentions that they've only built up about 15 brands in 5 years or something? as we all know, it takes a lot more than just coding prowess to address the issues. their lack of understanding, I mean a genuine understanding, of the highly proprietary ecosystem of brand names, super fakes, bad fakes and everything in between, is holding back any real progress. their AI shortcoming is thinking that it's a problem with binary answers (yes or no) and clearly it's multifaceted with decision trees looking more like a Monte Carlo simulation (aka deeply complex). I doubt if they would ever have the cooperation of the brand themselves, so they will always lack first hand knowledge and expertise which is critical to building a successful AI algorithm.




The trained eye is much better. Someone who can decipher the stitch, the texture of the leather, weight, even scent, etc.  AI Authentication can never replace the expertise and history of dealing with authentic luxury bags as accomplished by avid collectors and trained authenticators. This is such an intriguing topic!


----------



## jmc3007

AI can be effective, to wit AI is reviewing millions of radiology scans to learn and detect cancers. but it always goes back the the foundation, the input has to be good to obtain good output, like the popular saying "crap in crap out". Entrupy is just fumbling along, they buy some fake and genuine items, and make some comparisons and then proclaim a verdict. did they ever hang out on the authentication threads on TPF? they could learn a thing or two. it doesn't bode well that it's programmers running the platform, not bag aficionados with a vested interest and passion for purses. authentication isn't rocket science per se but it's highly detailed and can be mastered.


----------



## whateve

LovelyLillyGirl said:


> The trained eye is much better. Someone who can decipher the stitch, the texture of the leather, weight, even scent, etc.  AI Authentication can never replace the expertise and history of dealing with authentic luxury bags as accomplished by avid collectors and trained authenticators. This is such an intriguing topic!


In Coach, we don't count stitches per inch or most of the things that entrupy seems to focus on. We focus a lot on fonts, lengths of dashes, sizes of certain letters in comparison to others, as well as specific wording compared to the era of the bag - all things that entrupy seems to ignore.


----------



## Hyacinth

whateve said:


> In Coach, we don't count stitches per inch or most of the things that entrupy seems to focus on. We focus a lot on fonts, lengths of dashes, sizes of certain letters in comparison to others, as well as specific wording compared to the era of the bag - all things that entrupy seems to ignore.



And what REALLY p1$$es us off is when things as simple as a serial number that's been exposed as fake on dozens of internet sites, or a style number that doesn't come close to matching the style of the bag, are declared genuine by Entrupy. Their brilliant computer algorithms can't seem to be able to handle something as basic as a known fake serial number. So what good are they? Maybe they ought to try PAYING some low-grade employee WITHOUT zeros and ones for brain cells to actually do a little fecking RESEARCH. 

How that company keeps pulling the wool over the Medias' eyes with their infallible algorithms and their "expensive and time-consuming" process never ceases to amaze me. See my Post # 48 earlier in this thread.


----------



## BeenBurned

Hyacinth said:


> And what REALLY p1$$es us off is when things as simple as a serial number that's been exposed as fake on dozens of internet sites, or a style number that doesn't come close to matching the style of the bag, are declared genuine by Entrupy. Their brilliant computer algorithms can't seem to be able to handle something as basic as a known fake serial number. So what good are they? Maybe they ought to try PAYING some low-grade employee WITHOUT zeros and ones for brain cells to actually do a little fecking RESEARCH.
> 
> How that company keeps pulling the wool over the Medias' eyes with their infallible algorithms and their "expensive and time-consuming" process never ceases to amaze me. See my Post # 48 earlier in this thread.


About a year or so ago, 60 minutes had a show on aritificial intelligence. The AI specialist explained how (their particular) system worked whereby they found or were notified of errors and fed all that new information into their system to weed out what is not authentic. Every time a mistake was found, it was fixed.

IMO, it doesn't look like Entrupy tries to correct mistakes. Whether buyers of fakes don't file claims, whether recipients of fakes trust that Entrupy doesn't err, whether Goodwill or other sellers whose items were "authenticated" but returned as fake lets Entrupy know they erred or whether Entrupy just doesn't GAS, I don't know.

What I do know is that we've seen way too many similar mistakes in which no attempt appears to have been made to fix those inaccurate authentications.


----------



## Smoothoprter

Recently we performed an inhouse (personal inspection) on a bag and we deemed it fake.  We learned later that the same serial number was found on bags being sold on eBay with Entrupy certificates of authenticity.  @Michele or @ironic568  can post more information about these bags.


----------



## Smoothoprter

Smoothoprter said:


> Recently we performed an inhouse (personal inspection) on a bag and we deemed it fake.  We learned later that the same serial number was found on bags being sold on eBay with Entrupy certificates of authenticity.  @Michele or @ironic568  can post more information about these bags.



I'll just post the pictures of the stickers, maybe @Michele and @ironic568 can post the details.  The last picture is from the Fake bag we authenticated by personal inspection which came with a certificate from a competing authentication service.  The link is for a bag with the same serial number from a different seller and with the Entrupy certificate.









						Authentic Chanel Classic Flap Black Quilted Crossbody Handbag  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Authentic Chanel Classic Flap Black Quilted Crossbody Handbag at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## BeenBurned

I'm curious. Is this ebay listing the same bag Yoogi sold or a different bag with the same fake serial number?









						Authentic Chanel Classic Flap Black Quilted Crossbody Handbag  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Authentic Chanel Classic Flap Black Quilted Crossbody Handbag at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## Michele

It is a different bag.  Although the serial number is the same there are some differences.


----------



## BeenBurned

Michele said:


> It is a different bag.  Although the serial number is the same there are some differences.


Thanks, @Michele !


----------



## ironic568

So I got an authentication request on a very recent series classic flap, and normally I just refer those to Etinceler for physical inspection, because not only are these bags getting harder and harder to authenticate without having them in hand, but also because the vast majority of posters never seem to be able to take the high quality pictures needed for authentication, which is imperative for the higher series.
This poster, though, was very persistent, so I agreed to take look and see if there's any red flags, provided that she can give me the correct pictures. And she could, for the most part.
Bag turns out to be (IMO) fake, but this poster told me she also had it authenticated by another authentication service (that, to my knowledge, also uses some sort of artificial intelligence  to authenticate, but not Entrupy), and they deemed the bag authentic.
I told her I'm sure it's fake, but recommended the bag to be sent to Etinceler since it's understandable she wanted another opinion,  since this bag was sold by a reputable consignment store, and was also given the green light by a 3rd party authentication service. I totally understand she if had doubts, so I thought Etinceler was her best bet.

Later on I was chatting with Michele about something when she brought up this bag that she authenticated in house that turned out to be fake (we didn't communicate about this bag at all before then). We shared some thoughts and pics and incidentally found out about the duplicate sticker and listing on Ebay, that Smoothoprter posted here.

Then, as coincidence would have it, I later got another authentication request for another recent series classic flap sold by this same seller on Ebay.
After requesting better pictures, I was of the opinion that this bag is also fake (and not surprisingly, this one, too, came with an Entrupy certificate). I shared some pics of the details with Michele and we think these 2 fake bags with the Entrupy certificates are from the same batch/manufacturer.
A super fake must have made its way into Entrupy's system.


----------



## Smoothoprter

ironic568 said:


> A super fake must have made its way into Entrupy's system.



Agreed, but Entrupy has also found older bags to be authentic when they were fake, even fake copies of vintage bags so they have a lot of fakes in their system.


----------



## Smoothoprter

ironic568 said:


> Then, as coincidence would have it, I later got another authentication request for another recent series classic flap sold by this same seller on Ebay.
> After requesting better pictures, I was of the opinion that this bag is also fake (and not surprisingly, this one, too, came with an Entrupy certificate). I shared some pics of the details with Michele and we think these 2 fake bags with the Entrupy certificates are from the same batch/manufacturer.



This is the other fake bag.









						Authentic Chanel Classic Flap Black Quilted Crossbody Handbag  | eBay
					

Chanel Classic Flap. Classic Flap. The mini bag is similar in look to the micro, but it can fit quite a bit more. This is an efficient bag for the essentials & a few basics too. Bag Height. This size bag is super adorable, but it is only for carrying the bare essentials.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## Smoothoprter

Here is another completed auction from same seller and no doubt a fake bag.









						Authentic Chanel Classic Double Flap Black Quilted Crossbody Handbag  | eBay
					

Crossbody or Shoulder Bag. Chanel Classic. Classic Flap. The mini bag is similar in look to the micro, but it can fit quite a bit more. This is an efficient bag for the essentials & a few basics too.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## Smoothoprter

The seller has other CHANEL bags listed that are authentic, so likely are victims of the Superfakes too and unfortunately Entrupy was incorrect in these instances.


----------



## Smoothoprter

I just noticed something in that last certificate by Entrupy.  The material is listed as "calfskin/lambskin leather". Well calfskin and lambskin are two different types of leather, wouldn't their sophisticated algorithms be able to differentiate and know exactly what type of leather THIS particular bag is?  Also, in the other two Entrupy certificates I posted the material is listed as "caviar leather".  Well there is no such thing as "caviar leather".  Caviar is the texture / finish, the leather is calfskin.


----------



## BeenBurned

Smoothoprter said:


> Agreed, but Entrupy has also found older bags to be authentic when they were fake, even fake copies of vintage bags so they have a lot of fakes in their system.


In cases where IA works, it's because they constantly update their databases to fix mistakes and make sure mistakes that happened as a result of an incorrect algorithm doesn't happen again.

With Entrupy, the problem seems to be one of the following:

Entrupy clients are too trusting of Entrupy and don't believe there are mistakes.
Entrupy isn't updating its system when mistakes are found
Entrupy isn't made aware of mistakes so can't fix what it doesn't know about
Entrupy doesn't GAS
I don't know what Entrupy charges but based on the number of high volume sellers who use them (Goodwill, etc.) I suspect it's relatively inexpensive in comparison to a company that uses real human experts.

So Entrupy's clients are getting what they pay for and sadly, the trickle down affects all of us.


----------



## keb7332

BeenBurned said:


> I don't know what Entrupy charges but based on the number of high volume sellers who use them (Goodwill, etc.) I suspect it's relatively inexpensive in comparison to a company that uses real human experts.



There's a pawn shop in my town that uses Entrupy, charging $35-40 a pop for an authenticity certificate on a luxury bag. Their website refers back to the Entrupy website for which brands they authenticate, rather than relying on in-house specialists. They even have the Entrupy camera. The cost is on top of the price of the bag instead of included. Personally, I would never buy anything Entrupy deems "authentic," as there's no human eye looking at it.


----------



## ironic568

I looked on their website and besides a 1 time set up fee per device ($299), Entrupy is very affordable compared to using an authentication service, especially if you need high volume authentications.
But besides attractive pricing, I'm sure for many Entrupy's appeal lies its convenience and quick turnaround.  For small businesses/resellers who have no in house authenticators, or are no experts themselves, it's understandable that Entrupy is very appealing. There's no need to take a whole bunch of pictures (and not just any pictures, but the _right _pictures), send it in for authentication, and then wait, and in many cases, you'd be waiting for days. Sometimes the first round of pictures aren't good enough, so off you go to take some more, and then more waiting......
This can be time consuming, especially if you deal with a good amount of bags, and that's why I think many (IG) resellers (who aren't necessary authenticators) and consignment stores that don't have in house experts chose to go the Entrupy route, instead of relying on an authentication service. And with Entrupy, you only need one device to authenticate many brands, so there's no need to be/have an expert in different brands, or be an expert at all. Even if a resale business has in house experts, I wouldn't be surprised if some of  them still use Entrupy, because it's fast and can handle the volume. And of course it's very reassuring for users and buyers to read that each authentication certificate produced is backed by the Entrupy Financial Guarantee (I wonder what that guarantee entails, do they reimburse you the amount you paid for the bag, if they are found wrong in their authentication?)
With the (increasing) amount of mistakes that Enrtupy makes, it's alarming that many (IG) resellers are "Entrupy certified"


----------



## Mochibunnyy

Hi, thanks for making this thread. This thread is actually pretty much the only unfavorable opinion I could find about Entrupy..

I purchased a Mini Lady Dior handbag from the Reetzy Facebook group, which is a trustworthy second hand market (for the most part). The first photo authenticator deemed it inauthentic. I should have sent it for an in-house Entrupy authentication at that point, however it costs $45 and the closest verified business to me was a 1 hour drive, only open 9-5pm on weekdays, and takes up to two days to do the scan (as they prioritize consignments). That would have meant I needed to take off work twice and drive there twice, so a total 4 hour trip!

Anyway, I freaked out after the first opinion and seeked out a few other professional opinions. One of those was a moderator/authenticator from the Dior forum here on TPF, who deemed it authentic. Two other photo authenticators deemed it authentic, but one other deemed it not authentic. At this point, I had 3 authentic and 2 not authentic opinions.

Since Entrupy is so highly regarded in the second hand market and boasts a 99.1% accuracy rate, I decided to ship the bag to the verified business mentioned earlier. I had to pay for shipping both ways, and including insurance costs both ways for a $3.6k bag, I coughed up a total of $150 to get it authenticated via Entrupy. Unfortunately Entrupy was unable to identify the bag and therefore unable to confirm it's authentic (and I paid another $12 for the letter of evidence saying so.) Including Entrupy, I had 3 authentic and 3 not authentic opinions now.

The seller says she purchased it from the Barcelona Dior boutique, so I have a copy of the receipt and screenshots of her conversation with the Dior SA confirming the purchase. She also shared the SA's email (ends in @christiandior.com) so that I can contact her directly. I'm about to email her and will call the Barcelona boutique in the morning to verify that she is a real Dior SA (hoping someone picks up the phone)

Anyway, this got me thinking if there's a chance that Entrupy may be wrong? Sure it's a fancy technology based system that analyzes the fine grains and threads in your bag with a 99.1% accuracy rate (so they say), but does that automatically mean any bag they can't identify is a fake? The Mini Lady Dior is one of Dior's most popular bags, but the color I got (Fard) is not sold in the US for the mini size.

I know that the split in opinions is alarming, but given the fact that I got 3 other authentic opinions, I'm not sure if I absolutely trust that Entrupy is right. It seems like I'm in the minority though because everyone and their dogs seems to think that as long as you have an Entrupy certificate, you're golden. Other buyers are encouraging me to return the bag based on Entrupy's opinion. However I bought it from a friendly fellow purse addict, who is willing to work with me to get to the bottom of this. For now, I'll see if I can get a hold of the Dior SA who sold the bag to her to gain some comfort.

I just wanted to put this out there in case anyone else is questioning Entrupy's accuracy. I regret spending all this money on authentications just to end up nowhere, however I think I learned that the only party that can truly authenticate the bag is Dior's repair shop. Don't think I completely trust that fancy AI technology stuff.


----------



## ironic568

Fake flap. This company uses Entrupy









						Chanel Classic Double Flap Medium Caviar Leather Bag
					

Unfortunately the item you have selected is no longer available. Shop more here.




					www.poshbagboutique.com


----------



## Smoothoprter

I wish I had kept a copy of the listing, but a while back there was a fake CHANEL listed for auction on shopgoodwill that came with an Entrupy certificate. I reported the fake listing to Goodwill but of course since they had an Entrupy certificate the listing was not removed. I will be more diligent to keep these for reference in the future.


----------



## Smoothoprter

Here, I found a fake back pack on showgoodwill.com with Entrupy certificate:









						Authentic Chanel Black Purse W/ Coa - shopgoodwill.com
					

Authentic Chanel Black Purse W/ Coa All purses with Certificates of Authenticity are from Entrupy Authentication. The COA will be shipped with purchase.  Brand: Authentic Chanel Color: Black Material: Calfskin/lambskin leather Style: Purse COA: w/ COA Measurements Height: 10" Width: 11.5" Drop...




					www.shopgoodwill.com


----------



## alyssamay_xx

This is very true! I have a friend who purchased a bag from a reseller and it came with enturpy authenticity certificate but she always authenticates everything and she sent it to maybe 5 different authenticators and 3/5 said it was fake!

she didn’t know what to believe so she sent it back. It looked very good so if it was fake that isvery scary

it was a lady dior by the way!


----------



## ironic568

I don't know what's going on with the Entrupy system, but it's pretty scary that they have certified this bag as authentic:









						CHANEL BLACK MEDIUM QUILTED CAVIAR DOUBLE FLAP CLASSIC HANDBAG 2019 CERTIFIED   | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CHANEL BLACK MEDIUM QUILTED CAVIAR DOUBLE FLAP CLASSIC HANDBAG 2019 CERTIFIED  at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## whateve

ironic568 said:


> I don't know what's going on with the Entrupy system, but it's pretty scary that they have certified this bag as authentic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHANEL BLACK MEDIUM QUILTED CAVIAR DOUBLE FLAP CLASSIC HANDBAG 2019 CERTIFIED   | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CHANEL BLACK MEDIUM QUILTED CAVIAR DOUBLE FLAP CLASSIC HANDBAG 2019 CERTIFIED  at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


Why would they have left out part of the serial number on the certificate? How would you know it is actually for that bag?


----------



## BeenBurned

ironic568 said:


> I don't know what's going on with the Entrupy system, but it's pretty scary that they have certified this bag as authentic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHANEL BLACK MEDIUM QUILTED CAVIAR DOUBLE FLAP CLASSIC HANDBAG 2019 CERTIFIED   | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CHANEL BLACK MEDIUM QUILTED CAVIAR DOUBLE FLAP CLASSIC HANDBAG 2019 CERTIFIED  at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com






whateve said:


> Why would they have left out part of the serial number on the certificate? How would you know it is actually for that bag?


A lot of the Goodwill stores are using Entrupy and the mistakes are multiplying. 

I've reported a fake Coach over the past few days and not only has ebay not removed the listing but Goodwill hasn't responded to emails (both through the listing as well as directly to their San Francisco location's website) when told that the bag is fake and that Entrupy is not accurate. 








						Entrupy Authenticated Coach Black Leather Shoulder Bucket Handbag COA  | eBay
					

Fair pre-owned condition. This bag shows heavy wear from previous use. Heavy scratches and scuffs to the exterior especially at the bottom corners. Interior is dirty and stained. Good pre-owned condition.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## ironic568

whateve said:


> Why would they have left out part of the serial number on the certificate? How would you know it is actually for that bag?




Yes, I noticed that they started doing that, and I don't understand why. It completely defeats the the purpose, and a certificate without the full serial # makes it more susceptible to scams.
I, however, do think the bag in the listing is the same as the one on the certificate. There's something very specific about this classic flap that makes me believe this, something that gives it away.
I also checked this seller's other sold items and she's used Entrupy several times before (for Chanel), and as far as I can tell, there are no red flags with those bags. I don't believe this seller is a scammer.

PS. just noticed that the listing is gone, which is strange, because the seller ended this listing only about a week ago. And aren't the only listings that are no longer viewable those that are older than 90 days? Unless Ebay deleted it, but why would they if the listing has already ended?

Here's a picture of the certificate:


----------



## ironic568

BeenBurned said:


> A lot of the Goodwill stores are using Entrupy and the mistakes are multiplying.
> 
> I've reported a fake Coach over the past few days and not only has ebay not removed the listing but Goodwill hasn't responded to emails (both through the listing as well as directly to their San Francisco location's website) when told that the bag is fake and that Entrupy is not accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Entrupy Authenticated Coach Black Leather Shoulder Bucket Handbag COA  | eBay
> 
> 
> Fair pre-owned condition. This bag shows heavy wear from previous use. Heavy scratches and scuffs to the exterior especially at the bottom corners. Interior is dirty and stained. Good pre-owned condition.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com



The Coach listing is now gone. I'm pleasantly surprised Ebay has deleted it, especially because it came with "proof of authenticity"


----------



## girlsandbirkins

Entrupy is nonsense. It's crazy that businesses rely on it.


----------



## girlsandbirkins

ironic568 said:


> Fake flap. This company uses Entrupy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chanel Classic Double Flap Medium Caviar Leather Bag
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the item you have selected is no longer available. Shop more here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.poshbagboutique.com


 I would love to know what gave away that bag?


----------



## ironic568

girlsandbirkins said:


> I would love to know what gave away that bag?


You can PM me


----------



## Mystic_blue

Just had a bad experience with entrupy. Planning to consign my ysl chyc bag to a store and they used entrupy to authenticate my guaranteed authentic bag and  they claimed its fake they even charged me $30 and additional $10 for the certificate. Theyr making money out of it even if ur bag is authentic!


----------



## BeenBurned

Mystic_blue said:


> Just had a bad experience with entrupy. Planning to consign my ysl chyc bag to a store and they used entrupy to authenticate my guaranteed authentic bag and  they claimed its fake they even charged me $30 and additional $10 for the certificate. Theyr making money out of it even if ur bag is authentic!


The way artificial intelligence works is that when errors are made, the AI company makes adjustments to its algorithms to recognize the error(s), adjust the markers and avoid making the same mistakes again. 

There are two possible problems. First is that Entrupy's clients (whether companies like Goodwill or individual consumers) don't seem to be notifiying Entrupy of the mistakes and corrections can't be made if Entrupy doesn't know about them. That's the "better case" scenario. The second (and worse) possibility is that Entrupy is notified of errors and doesn't GAS and doesn't correct them. 

I know for a fact, that buyers of "authenticated" fakes from Goodwill HAVE returned fake bags to Goodwill and Goodwill has been forced to issue refunds for the returns. Why Goodwill continues to use Entrupy is beyond me, but the problem because further exacerbated when the buyers of fakes (but don't recognize them as fake) list and resell the bags with the inaccurate Entrupy certificates.


----------



## Mystic_blue

BeenBurned said:


> The way artificial intelligence works is that when errors are made, the AI company makes adjustments to its algorithms to recognize the error(s), adjust the markers and avoid making the same mistakes again.
> 
> There are two possible problems. First is that Entrupy's clients (whether companies like Goodwill or individual consumers) don't seem to be notifiying Entrupy of the mistakes and corrections can't be made if Entrupy doesn't know about them. That's the "better case" scenario. The second (and worse) possibility is that Entrupy is notified of errors and doesn't GAS and doesn't correct them.
> 
> I know for a fact, that buyers of "authenticated" fakes from Goodwill HAVE returned fake bags to Goodwill and Goodwill has been forced to issue refunds for the returns. Why Goodwill continues to use Entrupy is beyond me, but the problem because further exacerbated when the buyers of fakes (but don't recognize them as fake) list and resell the bags with the inaccurate Entrupy certificates.





BeenBurned said:


> The way artificial intelligence works is that when errors are made, the AI company makes adjustments to its algorithms to recognize the error(s), adjust the markers and avoid making the same mistakes again.
> 
> There are two possible problems. First is that Entrupy's clients (whether companies like Goodwill or individual consumers) don't seem to be notifiying Entrupy of the mistakes and corrections can't be made if Entrupy doesn't know about them. That's the "better case" scenario. The second (and worse) possibility is that Entrupy is notified of errors and doesn't GAS and doesn't correct them.
> 
> I know for a fact, that buyers of "authenticated" fakes from Goodwill HAVE returned fake bags to Goodwill and Goodwill has been forced to issue refunds for the returns. Why Goodwill continues to use Entrupy is beyond me, but the problem because further exacerbated when the buyers of fakes (but don't recognize them as fake) list and resell the bags with the inaccurate Entrupy certificates.


Even reputable and trusted seller in my country had a bad experience with entrupy.She sold a classic chanel bag complete even with store receipts then client used entrupy authenticated it as fake. They trust the machine now finding fakes as being authentic and calling authentic fake then charge u for the authentication.  Got charge $50 in total by the way!


----------



## BeenBurned

Mystic_blue said:


> Even reputable and trusted seller in my country had a bad experience with entrupy.She sold a classic chanel bag complete even with store receipts then client used entrupy authenticated it as fake. They trust the machine now finding fakes as being authentic and calling authentic fake then charge u for the authentication.  Got charge $50 in total by the way!


Yes, Entrupy has made mistakes both ways -- deeming fakes as authentic and authentic items as fake.


----------



## Smoothoprter

girlsandbirkins said:


> I would love to know what gave away that bag?



The sticker.


----------



## chantpez

I just found this forum and suddenly regreting and sceptic about my yesterday purchase 

i just bought vintage double sided (face) chanel she said year between 1970-1980, with no hologram and no card, just entrupy certificate of authenticity

please anyone could help me here, if the bag is real authentic or not, hopefully i could ask for a refund if her entrupy certificate was wrong 

here’s the pics:


----------



## BeenBurned

chantpez said:


> I just found this forum and suddenly regreting and sceptic about my yesterday purchase
> 
> i just bought vintage double sided (face) chanel she said year between 1970-1980, with no hologram and no card, just entrupy certificate of authenticity
> 
> please anyone could help me here, if the bag is real authentic or not, hopefully i could ask for a refund if her entrupy certificate was wrong
> 
> here’s the pics:


Hmm. Apparently, the Chanel subforum doesn't have an authenticator and they're recommending a paid service. I've used Authenticate4U (contacted through their facebook page) and have received satisfaction. I don't know of any other service with brand specialists.


----------



## sunshinealways

Hello..
Very curious about entrupy.. but I see entrupy has insured that if the bag the stated authentic but in fact it is a fake one they will refund your money valued the bag you bought.. is it true? Anybody knows about this? Thx


----------



## Michele

I highly recommend you return it-  take BeenBurned advice and have it officially authenticated so you have proper documentation


----------



## BeenBurned

sunshinealways said:


> Hello..
> Very curious about entrupy.. but I see entrupy has insured that if the bag the stated authentic but in fact it is a fake one they will refund your money valued the bag you bought.. is it true? Anybody knows about this? Thx


The problem isn't in getting a refund if an item is deemed fake. The problem is that buyers don't know they received a fake because they trust that Entrupy authentications are accurate and never even think to verify! 

And if an item isn't questioned, there's no refund to be had, no corrections to be made and the problem just continues and grows. 

I know for a fact of dozens of fake Coaches being advertised as "authenticated" by Entrupy and being sold by various Goodwill stores and online sellers. While some buyers who are members here have learned their purchases were fake and returned them to Goodwill, we've seen those returns being relisted and resold, still with the inaccurate Entrupy documentation. Clearly Goodwill isn't believing their buyers and just issuing returns and refunds because it's easier!


----------



## chantpez

BeenBurned said:


> Hmm. Apparently, the Chanel subforum doesn't have an authenticator and they're recommending a paid service. I've used Authenticate4U (contacted through their facebook page) and have received satisfaction. I don't know of any other service with brand specialists.



okay thanks for the information! I will check it now


----------



## chantpez

Michele said:


> I highly recommend you return it-  take BeenBurned advice and have it officially authenticated so you have proper documentation


Yes because it looks fake isn’t it? At first i had doubts, but then she said she had entrupy certificate to proof it’s authentic


----------



## chantpez

Michele said:


> I highly recommend you return it-  take BeenBurned advice and have it officially authenticated so you have proper documentation


Yes because it looks fake isn’t it? At first i had doubts, but then she said she had entrupy certificate to proof it’s authentic. I believe in entrupy too much, now it's disappointing


----------



## sunshinealways

BeenBurned said:


> The problem isn't in getting a refund if an item is deemed fake. The problem is that buyers don't know they received a fake because they trust that Entrupy authentications are accurate and never even think to verify!
> 
> And if an item isn't questioned, there's no refund to be had, no corrections to be made and the problem just continues and grows.
> 
> I know for a fact of dozens of fake Coaches being advertised as "authenticated" by Entrupy and being sold by various Goodwill stores and online sellers. While some buyers who are members here have learned their purchases were fake and returned them to Goodwill, we've seen those returns being relisted and resold, still with the inaccurate Entrupy documentation. Clearly Goodwill isn't believing their buyers and just issuing returns and refunds because it's easier!


Yes so very confusing


----------



## BeenBurned

Michele said:


> I highly recommend you return it-  take BeenBurned advice and have it officially authenticated so you have proper documentation





chantpez said:


> Yes because it looks fake isn’t it? At first i had doubts, but then she said she had entrupy certificate to proof it’s authentic





chantpez said:


> Yes because it looks fake isn’t it? At first i had doubts, but then she said she had entrupy certificate to proof it’s authentic. I believe in entrupy too much, now it's disappointing


In reading between the lines, that's what I'm inferring that Michele's message is implying too. 

If you bought the item on ebay, I don't think you even have to spend money on a pro because ebay will resolve a dispute in the buyer's favor. (Other sites might want documentation.) If ebay, just open a dispute for SNAD and choose the reason as "doesn't seem authentic." <---- that's ebay's wording on the dispute form.

Seller will have accept return and if she refuses, just escalate for ebay to decide the case. Seller will have to pay for the return shipping label.


----------



## chantpez

BeenBurned said:


> In reading between the lines, that's what I'm inferring that Michele's message is implying too.
> 
> If you bought the item on ebay, I don't think you even have to spend money on a pro because ebay will resolve a dispute in the buyer's favor. (Other sites might want documentation.) If ebay, just open a dispute for SNAD and choose the reason as "doesn't seem authentic." <---- that's ebay's wording on the dispute form.
> 
> Seller will have accept return and if she refuses, just escalate for ebay to decide the case. Seller will have to pay for the return shipping label.


yes, i escalated it today, because seller insist it’s an authentic bag


----------



## Michele

Yes, that is what I am implying.   Would you mind posting the entrupy certificate-  just curious.

Chantpez -  sent you a PM


----------



## QuelleFromage

Once again - as someone who works in this field - it is impossible to build third-party authentication software without the full cooperation of the brands involved. AI is only as good as the input. Brands change authentication standards constantly. Entrupy can only be as good as the humans they use to develop the evaluation software, and there are not very many reliable independent authentication experts for Chanel, Hermès, etc., therefore, at best it is no better than a few authentications from respected experts. That said, it's much cheaper to use Entrupy than multiple authenticators, which is why resellers use it (and why it's a funded business).


----------



## Smoothoprter

chantpez said:


> I just found this forum and suddenly regreting and sceptic about my yesterday purchase
> 
> i just bought vintage double sided (face) chanel she said year between 1970-1980, with no hologram and no card, just entrupy certificate of authenticity
> 
> please anyone could help me here, if the bag is real authentic or not, hopefully i could ask for a refund if her entrupy certificate was wrong
> 
> here’s the pics:



This bag is a very obviously fake. Maybe the Entrupy certificate is fake too?


----------



## BeenBurned

Smoothoprter said:


> This bag is a very obviously fake. Maybe the Entrupy certificate is fake too?


I've never seen a fake Entrupy certificate. But I've seen more genuine Entrupy certs for VERY obvious fake Coaches.


----------



## lilapot

I absolutely hate entrupy for giving me such a headache on my recent deal. A bag I sold which was purchased from the official store in the UK with a paid authentication from proauthenticators was returned by a buyer because it was tagged “UNIDENTIFIED” by Entrupy. Even after it was offered to have the bag taken to another local authenticator in the area and have it reauthenticated for Free, buyer still insisted he only trusts Entrupy. The bag is guaranteed authentic. Don’t know but I’ve seen fakes before and this definitely is not one of them.


----------



## whateve

lilapot said:


> I absolutely hate entrupy for giving me such a headache on my recent deal. A bag I sold which was purchased from the official store in the UK with a paid authentication from proauthenticators was returned by a buyer because it was tagged “UNIDENTIFIED” by Entrupy. Even after it was offered to have the bag taken to another local authenticator in the area and have it reauthenticated for Free, buyer still insisted he only trusts Entrupy. The bag is guaranteed authentic. Don’t know but I’ve seen fakes before and this definitely is not one of them.


What brand was it?


----------



## lilapot

whateve said:


> What brand was it?


Gucci


----------



## lilapot

whateve said:


> What brand was it?


The buyer turned out to be a reseller. After he haggled about $80 off my price, he came to pick up and first thing he said was, “Oh, it’s small!” Mind you, that bag was very gently used and retailed for more than $2000 but selling for less than $500. Then, the next day wanted to return saying he authenticated it through Entrupy and came back as fake. I figured later on that he probably really changed his mind about it. He resells mostly LVs and Chanels and understandable because those sell really fast no matter how bad the condition is as evident on his transactions/feedback.

Worked out for me in the end because  I got another buyer right away who paid my actual asking price. ☺


----------



## mississppi

I dont know if we can really trust Entrupy.  I have Bags that purchased from the LV store. we have it authenticated with a Entrupy partner. the first result is unidentified ( maybe the first who took the photos didnt submit or take photos properly) so we rescan it with another entrupy partner the result is Authentic. how can be realible if you are scanning same bag and they different result. 


Also Chanel ,first scan said its Authentic after 2-3months when you scan it again its unidentified. and you need to pay and pay per authentication for the same bag. Too sad a lot of people is still trusting Entrupy. waste of money.


----------



## mississppi

sunshinealways said:


> Hello..
> Very curious about entrupy.. but I see entrupy has insured that if the bag the stated authentic but in fact it is a fake one they will refund your money valued the bag you bought.. is it true? Anybody knows about this? Thx


 -definitely not true. thats part of the marketing.  they authenticated my bag that I bought from the store. they said its unidentified. I sent them the receipt and ask for dispute. they said disputes are only for Authentic items with a certificate.


----------



## mississppi

whateve said:


> What brand was it?


 -- I experience this also  with Louis Vuitton Mini Palm spring and braided metis - Chanel 19 Flap both from Store


----------



## BeenBurned

mississppi said:


> they said disputes are only for Authentic items with a certificate.


I wish some of the people who bought fakes that came with Entrupy certificates deeming them authentic knew they got fakes and disputed! The problem is that too many people trust that "artificial" intelligence is intelligent and don't consider that they got a mistake.


----------



## BeenBurned

lilapot said:


> I absolutely hate entrupy for giving me such a headache on my recent deal. A bag I sold which was purchased from the official store in the UK with a paid authentication from proauthenticators was returned by a buyer because it was tagged “UNIDENTIFIED” by Entrupy. Even after it was offered to have the bag taken to another local authenticator in the area and have it reauthenticated for Free,* buyer still insisted he only trusts Entrupy. *The bag is guaranteed authentic. Don’t know but I’ve seen fakes before and this definitely is not one of them.


Did you consider sending your buyer a link to this thread? Or did you recommend she google "entrupy mistakes."

Since you have nothing to lose, I'd contact her and make a suggestion. She may still want to return but maybe it'll open her eyes.

(BTW, I wasn't aware that ProAuthenticators did Gucci nor does their website say that but that has nothing to do with the errors Entrupy makes.)


----------



## mississppi

BeenBurned said:


> I wish some of the people who bought fakes that came with Entrupy certificates deeming them authentic knew they got fakes and disputed! The problem is that too many people trust that "artificial" intelligence is intelligent and don't consider that they got a mistake.



if the item is 100% Authentic and Entrupy says its "unidentified" No disputes at all. then the buyer will stick to that result even the item is really authentic.


----------



## QuelleFromage

Is eBay using Entrupy? I just saw an Hermes Constance listed for $705, "eBay authenticity guaranteed".......within a few hours it had been taken down.


----------



## BeenBurned

QuelleFromage said:


> Is eBay using Entrupy? I just saw an Hermes Constance listed for $705, "eBay authenticity guaranteed".......within a few hours it had been taken down.


They've been cryptic about who they use. I have heard they use Entrupy but I don't know if they use it exclusively.


----------



## bababebi

QuelleFromage said:


> Is eBay using Entrupy? I just saw an Hermes Constance listed for $705, "eBay authenticity guaranteed".......within a few hours it had been taken down.



That Constance was being sold by a zero feedback seller, it is unclear how they got that "Authenticity Guaranteed" tag on the listing. Perhaps the bag was removed because it was reported. There are certain sellers where the eBay listing of their bags states "Authenticity Guaranteed". My understanding is that pictures of these bags are reviewed prior to listing by the service that eBay uses, I won't name it.

It is confusing because eBay also offers an authenticity guarantee which becomes effective after the sale when an eligible (certain brands and over $500) handbag is shipped to the authenticators where it is inspected and checked again by various methods before being sent to the buyer by the authenticators. SNAD is not permitted on these items if they are NEW or LIKE NEW and seller has stated that they do not accept returns. https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-handbags/index.html


----------



## BeenBurned

bababebi said:


> That Constance was being sold by a zero feedback seller, it is unclear how they got that "Authenticity Guaranteed" tag on the listing. Perhaps the bag was removed because it was reported. There are certain sellers where the eBay listing of their bags states "Authenticity Guaranteed". My understanding is that pictures of these bags are reviewed prior to listing by the service that eBay uses, I won't name it.
> 
> It is confusing because eBay also offers an authenticity guarantee which becomes effective after the sale when an eligible (certain brands and over $500) handbag is shipped to the authenticators where it is inspected and checked again by various methods before being sent to the buyer by the authenticators. SNAD is not permitted on these items if they are NEW or LIKE NEW and seller has stated that they do not accept returns. https://pages.ebay.com/authenticity-guarantee-handbags/index.html


It's my understanding that listings with the blue "authenticity guaranteed" check mark are listings that are forwarded by the sellers to ebay after the sale but prior to ebay shipping those items to the buyer.

Ebay touts that service as being a boon for the seller but at least one TPFer is dealing with a problem with it and so far, isn't sure her $6K is going to stay in her account:





						Buyer filed chargeback with eBay authenticated item
					

Hello, I just recently sold an item for close to 6k that was authenticated by ebay’s service before being sent to the buyer. I shipped to eBay’s address. They approved the bag, repackaged and shipped via FedEx with signature to the buyer. The tracking shows it was delivered. The buyer contacted...




					forum.purseblog.com


----------



## mississppi

I got my brandnew Cristian Dior Book Tote 2021 bought from store authenticated by ENTRUPY and the result is Fake. we flag the item and ask for secondary result but the answer is still the same.  too sad because I DONT THINK THEY HAVE ENOUGH DATA WITH DIOR. 

I even sent them the receipt and emailed them on how to prove that the item is Authentic. but again they didnt reply. 

does anyone experience this also?


----------



## mississppi

ENTRUPY IS A SCAM ! REALLY GETTING INTO MY NERVES! There's no way to prove them that your item is Authentic and the sad part is they are offering $10.00 for letter of evidence. Really? for a AUTHENTIC ITEM? Even store confirmed the item. Gosh! STOP AUTHENTICATING!


----------



## mississppi

NOW: ( EVEN YOUR ITEM IS 1000PERCENT AUTHENTIC) If its UNIDENTIFIED TO ENTRUPY . THE PEOPLE WILL SAY ITS FAKE. 
They will say ENTRUPY has FINANCIAL GUARANTEE but in REALITY its just a MARKETING STRATEGY. They will never answer your concern.

And even if YOUR ITEM IS AUTHENTIC and ENTRUPY SAYS THE OTHERWISE . People will BELIEVE ENTRUPY NOT THE STORE OR THE BRAND WHERE YOU BOUGHT IT. 

SUCKS!


----------



## BeenBurned

*Those who've been wronged by them should band together and contact Entrupy, the CEO, Facebook, Twitter and any other method of getting them to understand that although they may mean well, their algorithms aren't correcting errors and they're making mistakes.*

I've said it before but it's worth repeating. Artificial intelligence (which at this company isnt intelligent!) is only accurate when mistakes are discovered and corrected within their system. From what I've witnessed, mistakes are NOT corrected so the errors continue.

*Entrupy - Technology Driven Authentication Solution - Entrupy*



There are multiple posts in this thread in which mistakes were found. A forum search of "Entrupy mistakes" pulls up many others. (I know for a fact that the Coach subforum is full of posts pointing out errors!)

*Entrupy - Home | Facebook*

*Entrupy - Twitter*
https://twitter.com › entrupy





entrupy.com
*Description*
Headquarters location: New York, NY
Founded: 2012
Owner

Vidyuth Srinivasan

Today's Goldilocks features Entrupy CEO and co-*founder Vidyuth Srinivasan*, who spoke to us about his company's niche in authenticating high-value goods and raising a $2.6M Series A round in July 2017.Apr 25, 2018
*Inside Venture Capital Featuring Entrupy CEO Vidyuth Srinivasan*
https://www.entrupy.com › inside-venture-capital-featurin...


----------



## QuelleFromage

I have investments in multiple AI companies. AI is exactly as good as the data that's input (which is why it's usually built off giant datasets).

The keys to authenticity of luxury goods are held by the manufacturers and often change. Unless Entrupy has someone at LVMH, someone at Richemont, someone at Hermès, etc., supplying them with up-to-the-minute data on authenticity markings, it is _impossible_ for Entrupy to be reliable. 
Example: Hermès moves its date stamps, and changes their order (we all know this happened and keeps happening, not giving away any secrets here). Entrupy needs that data immediately, or it will either miss a fake or flag an authentic item as inauthentic.

I really doubt that these large luxury brands and conglomerates, with no investment in Entrupy, are supplying this information - certainly not officially. Probably Entrupy is using input from human authenticators as base data. This will be a small dataset no matter what (there are only so many experts on each brand). 

I would love to see Entrupy's investor presentations and how their team explains the reliability of the tool.


----------



## allanrvj

I have made applications using machine-learning frameworks such as TensorFlow and FastAI, and I've been a Hermès fan for more than a decade.

All I can say is, the way Entrupy verifies authenticity is not in line with how you would normally authenticate Hermès products.


----------



## BeenBurned

QuelleFromage said:


> I have investments in multiple AI companies. AI is exactly as good as the data that's input (which is why it's usually built off giant datasets).
> 
> The keys to authenticity of luxury goods are held by the manufacturers and often change. Unless Entrupy has someone at LVMH, someone at Richemont, someone at Hermès, etc., supplying them with up-to-the-minute data on authenticity markings, it is _impossible_ for Entrupy to be reliable.
> Example: Hermès moves its date stamps, and changes their order (we all know this happened and keeps happening, not giving away any secrets here). Entrupy needs that data immediately, or it will either miss a fake or flag an authentic item as inauthentic.
> 
> I really doubt that these large luxury brands and conglomerates, with no investment in Entrupy, are supplying this information - certainly not officially. Probably Entrupy is using input from human authenticators as base data. This will be a small dataset no matter what (there are only so many experts on each brand).
> 
> I would love to see Entrupy's investor presentations and how their team explains the reliability of the tool.


They've made so many mistakes on Coach that I can't even imagine the errors with luxury brands! 

I find it difficult to believe that they're updating their databases because I suspect that companies (like Goodwill which has had lots of fakes with COAs returned) don't believe their machines are mistaken. I think they just accept the returns, issue refunds and resell those same fakes. I've seen it happen! 

A few days ago, I took time to actually go through their site to try to understand how it works and it's scary and eyeopening. 








						Luxury Authentication - Entrupy
					

Luxury Authentication Entrupy’s flagship solution certifies the authenticity of luxury products using an objective, scientifically-proven approach that better protects buyers and sellers of frequently-counterfeited, high-value items. Luxury Authentication Entrupy’s flagship solution certifies...




					www.entrupy.com
				





And pricing! Yikes! 








						Home - Entrupy
					

Scalable AI-powered solutions for product verification—anytime, anywhere Secure inventory, protect supply chains and add trust to transactions at retail and resale Learn More Get Started Entrupy Solutions Authentication Entrupy’s product authentication solutions protect businesses, buyers and...




					www.entrupy.com


----------



## Coach Superfan

If you buy a purse online and the seller includes an Entrupy certificate, but you also have another reputable third party authenticator review your bag and they determine it is not real, will ebay/poshmark accept your claim for a return/refund?


----------



## BeenBurned

Coach Superfan said:


> If you buy a purse online and the seller includes an Entrupy certificate, but you also have another reputable third party authenticator review your bag and they determine it is not real, will ebay/poshmark accept your claim for a return/refund?


Ebay will accept any claim as long as it's for "not as described" and as such, many buyers know this and make false claims. 

But in answer to your question, yes for ebay. I have no idea about Poshmark because I've seen them give buyers a hard time WITHOUT a "COA" when they made legitimate claims of fake and in at least one case, they had the buyer (a Coach TPFer) send the bag to them for their "experts" to review in person and they still deemed the POS as authentic!


----------



## athornton2008

I just ordered a bag from an auction with an Entrupy certificate - I’m praying it’s legit


----------



## BeenBurned

athornton2008 said:


> I just ordered a bag from an auction with an Entrupy certificate - I’m praying it’s legit


Did you have it authenticated here prior to purchase? If not, when you receive it, post pictures in the brand AT thread.


----------



## athornton2008

No  I didn’t find this forum until afterwards. It’s coming in the mail today and I’m going to post it. I know it’s an LV BRERA, and I’ve done some research it looks right so I’m gonna cross my fingers. I’m definitely no expert though: it’s my first luxury bag


----------



## FrenchieBull

An Entrupy “authenticated” Coach Willis at shopgoodwill.  K3H-9927
shopgoodwill.com/item/143732572


----------



## whateve

FrenchieBull said:


> An Entrupy “authenticated” Coach Willis at shopgoodwill.  K3H-9927
> shopgoodwill.com/item/143732572


In case someone reading this doesn't realize this - this is an obvious fake!


----------



## LV20062011

I worked at Entrupy. I would never trust them with my authentication. Message me to learn more.


----------



## jellyv

LV20062011 said:


> I worked at Entrupy. I would never trust them with my authentication. Message me to learn more.



Go ahead and add your info here. People aren't going to private message someone who joined minutes ago--and you don't have DM privileges yet anyway.


----------



## LV20062011

Here's the thing. If you're a reseller and have bags that need to be authenticated fast and you have a lot, there's no other authenticator out there. They can't send 20 bags and get them back in a hour. Or 15 min. They have that marked saturated. There's no other options but I would 100% get a bag authenticated by a specialist than trust the certificate. The 99.1% accuracy rate is only on found mistakes. It's not on actual mistakes.


----------



## LV20062011

jellyv said:


> Go ahead and add your info here. People aren't going to private message someone who joined minutes ago--and you don't have DM privileges yet anyway.


I understand. I had to create a new alias.


----------



## LV20062011

If you're going to get Chanel or Hermes authenticated go to the best: Zeko and Bababebi.


----------



## BeenBurned

LV20062011 said:


> I worked at Entrupy. I would never trust them with my authentication. Message me to learn more.


I'd love for you to post more info publicly.

As I understand AI, the company is supposed to adjust its algorithms when an item is found to be fake. As they grow their database, the corrections should result in fewer mistakes. But it appears that Goodwill and other companies that depend on Entrupy either don't notify them or if they do notify, Entrupy doesn't make the necessary adjustments.


----------



## LV20062011

This is true but a lot is looked at by a team of authenticators who override the AI. They only ask for like 6 categories which is way too few to authenticate a bag correctly.


----------



## BeenBurned

LV20062011 said:


> This is true but a lot is looked at by a team of authenticators who override the AI. They only ask for like 6 categories which is way too few to authenticate a bag correctly.


Whatever they look at to "override" AI, they're doing a very poor job and I wouldn't trust them, wouldn't pay for their services and wouldn't buy from a seller who shows an Entrupy certificate unless a TPF (free expert authentication) or other trusted (paid) authentication company verified it.


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## Hyacinth

Entrupy and their Partner In Crime, Goodwill, just managed to rip off another sucker - sorry, _"customer" _for almost *$320* US for a complete POS fake "Coach" with an always-fake serial number prefix that's been searchable on the internet for at least 10 years and a turnlock closure that's more than an INCH off-center with a flap as crooked as a (_fill in the appropriate political party _HERE) politician's morals.

Start here:





						COACH Hall of Shame - Post Coach fakes here!
					

Item: Crescent with J8H prefix Site: shopgoodwill.com Link: https://shopgoodwill.com/item/150951932  Ugh! Entrupy is at the point (or close to it) where there are as many wrong "authentications" as right. They might as well cover their eyes and point.




					forum.purseblog.com
				



all the way to here:





						COACH Hall of Shame - Post Coach fakes here!
					

Item: Crescent with J8H prefix Site: shopgoodwill.com Link: https://shopgoodwill.com/item/150951932  Ugh! Entrupy is at the point (or close to it) where there are as many wrong "authentications" as right. They might as well cover their eyes and point.




					forum.purseblog.com


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## Hyacinth

Hyacinth said:


> Entrupy and their Partner In Crime, Goodwill, just managed to rip off another sucker - sorry, _"customer" _for almost *$320* US for a complete POS fake "Coach" with an always-fake serial number prefix that's been searchable on the internet for at least 10 years and a turnlock closure that's more than an INCH off-center with a flap as crooked as a (_fill in the appropriate political party _HERE) politician's morals.
> 
> Start here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COACH Hall of Shame - Post Coach fakes here!
> 
> 
> Item: Crescent with J8H prefix Site: shopgoodwill.com Link: https://shopgoodwill.com/item/150951932  Ugh! Entrupy is at the point (or close to it) where there are as many wrong "authentications" as right. They might as well cover their eyes and point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.purseblog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all the way to here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COACH Hall of Shame - Post Coach fakes here!
> 
> 
> Item: Crescent with J8H prefix Site: shopgoodwill.com Link: https://shopgoodwill.com/item/150951932  Ugh! Entrupy is at the point (or close to it) where there are as many wrong "authentications" as right. They might as well cover their eyes and point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.purseblog.com



BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

Keep reading.





						COACH Hall of Shame - Post Coach fakes here!
					

I got another email from them after directing GW (again) to this page on tpf as well as explaining that Entrupy is AI, not reliable and often incorrect. Here is their response:   "Hello,  Entrupy is a reputable company, we have never had an issue with using them to verify our products- if you do...




					forum.purseblog.com


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## Hyacinth

And now for the latest F-Up by Entrupy but with ShopGoodwill as the ultimate villians/attemped scammers.

I won't go into detail here, just read the posts, but Goodwill is trying to make *Entrupy* responsible for a confirmed fake "Coach" that Entrupy "authenticated" but that *ShopGoodwill. com */ *Goodwill Southwestern Pennsylvania* sold and then refused to refund the buyer, so I'm considering those two disgusting entities as partners in crime.

The posts are spread out over three pages, and "splurgeworthy" is the disgusted buyer. It starts here, post 77676:





						Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**
					

IMPORTANT READ-ME  Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please. For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.  Please follow the following requests:  Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this...




					forum.purseblog.com
				




and (hopefully) ends here, post 77711 with *neither* company accepting any responsibility and with ShopGoodwill deciding to justify a refund because "the packaging had been damaged"





						Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**
					

IMPORTANT READ-ME  Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please. For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.  Please follow the following requests:  Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this...




					forum.purseblog.com
				





*I DON'T RECOMMEND DEALING WITH EITHER ENTRUPY OR SHOPGOODWILL.COM !!!*


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## GucciLouisFendiOhMy

BeenBurned said:


> I'd love for you to post more info publicly.
> 
> As I understand AI, the company is supposed to adjust its algorithms when an item is found to be fake. As they grow their database, the corrections should result in fewer mistakes. But it appears that Goodwill and other companies that depend on Entrupy either don't notify them or if they do notify, Entrupy doesn't make the necessary adjustments.


I’m glad to have found this thread as I scooped a Chanel tote recently. Had multiple authentications, including Entrupy and an in person authentication with them as well as the initial finding was disputed by the previous owner. Entrupy backed up their initial findings. Given this at the time, I felt secure and purchased the bag. However after seeking an alternate authentication it is in fact a replica (a quality one at that but no less one). This was my only time purchasing an Entrupy authenticated bag. I’d not personally trust it moving forward and will be returning my bag given this outcome.  Also notified the original seller to me about the fake bag tell that was missed by Entrupy AI and in person. The certificate is in their name (seller) though, so they have to fight that fight. It’s unfortunate that Entrupy has these types of misses because the idea behind the company is a great one, but it’s not reliable in my one and only encounter. I’d not give an Entrupy bag a second look without an external authentication such as from Zeko.


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