# HBO-True Detective



## tln

Is anyone else watching this?


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## zippie

I got half way through and turned it off, boring.


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## kemilia

Yes, I'm watching and I think it is great. 


This show requires some thinking on the viewer's part, it is very quiet. Woody's and Matt's acting is excellent.


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## Charles

Boring?  Were we watching the same show??

I thought it was a great setup to a, hopefully, great show.

I'm excited about the flashbacks and this all happening over 15 years.


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## Brandless

Charles said:


> Boring?  Were we watching the same show??
> 
> I thought it was a great setup to a, hopefully, great show.
> 
> I'm excited about the flashbacks and this all happening over 15 years.




I agree. Can't wait to see what happens next. I loved how they set up sort of a cliffhanger to the ending scene. At first I was wondering why they were interrogating Cohle like a suspect. IMO great acting and great character transformations.


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## tln

I agree with Charles and Brandless-I loved it too.  Dark subject matter, but I think this may be another winner for HBO.


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## gators

I like this show too, but it was a little slow in the beginning.  It did pick up and I can't wait to see how this all plays out.


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## TinksDelite

I really liked it!


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## lurkernomore

Finally had time to watch...and I am definitely hooked. I don't know if anyone remembers _Twin Peaks_, but it gave me a little bit of that kind of vibe.
I did notice Woody Harrelson's character had a wedding band on in the flashbacks, but not when he was being interviewed...


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## azsun

I am watching this too....it does have a dark undercurrent.

I live in SW Louisiana, so I am familiar with the names of towns/places they are throwing out.  The dead girl was found in Erath..which is about 15 miles from us.  I know where Spanish Lake is (there is not a bunny ranch there tho!).

I'm enjoying this...love the actors too.


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## *schmoo*

The writing is brilliant. I thought the 2nd episode was a little boring, tho'. I could barely recognize Matthew M. His acting is amazing, too


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## Brandless

lurkernomore said:


> Finally had time to watch...and I am definitely hooked. I don't know if anyone remembers _Twin Peaks_, but it gave me a little bit of that kind of vibe.
> I did notice Woody Harrelson's character had a wedding band on in the flashbacks, but not when he was being interviewed...




Very good observation! I didn't even notice that. 

Anyone have theories on who the possible killer? I thought Cohle is a likely suspect. He said he doesn't sleep, just dreams so I'm wondering if he has something like a split personality. But it is too obvious so I'm thinking he is a red herring. And then in the second episode, we find out Hart is not that perfect. I can't wait for the ending! How many episodes are there supposed to be?


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## Charles

Yeah, def liking where this is going.


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## wordpast

great show, great acting.


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## Brwneyed1

I'm enjoying it too.


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## lurkernomore

Charles said:


> Yeah, def liking where this is going.





wordpast said:


> great show, great acting.





Brwneyed1 said:


> I'm enjoying it too.




 add me to these comments  I love a show with flawed characters...


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## chowlover2

I just watched the first 2 episodes, I can't wait to see where this show goes!


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## bhalpop

Im loving this show. Deep deep writing and the acting is superb. McConnahey is unbelievably good and the contrast between Harrelson and his character is what really drives this story. I suspect there is more to Harrelson's character then we have even seen yet.


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## azsun

I am loving this show, more with every episode!  The writing is just amazing, and so is the acting.


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## WeltSchmerz

It seems like HBO nailed it again..


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## chowlover2

Matthew has come such a long way as an actor, Woody too. This is going to be really good!


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## grietje

Glad to find this show being discussed.  It's really well done and does require the viewer to pay attention.


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## lurkernomore

I find myself thinking about this show the next day, which to me is a good sign. Matthew McConaughey's character should be creeping me out, but I think it is actually Woody Harrelson's character who has more creepy potential because he tries to come off as a nice guy.


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## chowlover2

lurkernomore said:


> I find myself thinking about this show the next day, which to me is a good sign. Matthew McConaughey's character should be creeping me out, but I think it is actually Woody Harrelson's character who has more creepy potential because he tries to come off as a nice guy.


Agreed!


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## littlerock

I absolutely love this show..!


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## Charles

lurkernomore said:


> I find myself thinking about this show the next day, which to me is a good sign. Matthew McConaughey's character should be creeping me out, but I think it is actually Woody Harrelson's character who has more creepy potential because he tries to come off as a nice guy.



Exactly.  With Rusty, what you see is what you get.  He's not hiding anything.  With Woddy's character, you can see there's a dark side that he tries to hide.


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## gracekelly

grietje said:


> Glad to find this show being discussed.  It's really well done and d*oes require the viewer to pay attention.*




I was very late in initially watching Game of Thrones for this very reason.  I have to get myself in a mood where I will really pay attention.  Planning on watching the first two On Demand this weekend.  People have given this glowing reviews so I am really looking forward to this.


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## tln

gracekelly said:


> [/B]
> 
> I was very late in initially watching Game of Thrones for this very reason.  I have to get myself in a mood where I will really pay attention.  Planning on watching the first two On Demand this weekend.  People have given this glowing reviews so I am really looking forward to this.



I think you'll like it. The acting is exceptional.


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## Starlett309

I'm loving this. Brilliant acting.


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## LeeLooDallasMP

Marty hypocrisy gives me a serious case of wanting to kick him right in the nuts. Still both men are equally broken in their own way and opposite beliefs that all the odds should say they can't be partners, but somehow they seem to make their dynamic work.


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## Brandless

I was looking forward to the third episode but looks like there is no new episode  tonight


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## LeeLooDallasMP

Brandless said:


> I was looking forward to the third episode but looks like there is no new episode  tonight


 
Urgh indeed not before Feb. 9th.... *sigh*


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## chowlover2

It's as if the world stops for the Super Bowl...


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## jen_sparro

grietje said:


> Glad to find this show being discussed.  It's really well done and does require the viewer to pay attention.



Yeah, this is not the sort of show to watch as you wind down and relax! I find it quite mentally challenging at times sorting through McConaughey's monologues to fully get his meaning. Such a fascinating show.

I feel so badly for Marty's wife, she deserves so much better... he is an *******! The "I need to unwind with a 20yr old" makes my skin crawl.


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## gracekelly

Saw all 3 episodes at one sitting.  Great show!  MMc is great and this is the best acting he has ever done.  It is a real departure from his usual smiling pretty boy roles.  I'm sure this will have a real flip ending.


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## lurkernomore

I finally saw Dallas Buyers Club last night, and Matthew McConaughey has really grown as an actor. As much as I enjoyed him when he was "acting eye candy", this phase of his career is pretty awesome to watch.


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## lucywife

lurkernomore said:


> I finally saw *Dallas Buyers Club* last night, and Matthew McConaughey has really grown as an actor. As much as I enjoyed him when he was "acting eye candy", this phase of his career is pretty awesome to watch.


I agree, amazing performance.


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## chowlover2

lurkernomore said:


> I finally saw Dallas Buyers Club last night, and Matthew McConaughey has really grown as an actor. As much as I enjoyed him when he was "acting eye candy", this phase of his career is pretty awesome to watch.




Matt has blossomed. His acting is just blowing me away.


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## gemini582

That episode was stressful. It felt like a mini movie. The shoot out was impressive. It takes a lot of skill to choreograph something like that.


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## zippie

I have a hard time understand Matthew mumbles.  I keep turning up the TV but it doesn't help.


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## *schmoo*

zippie said:


> I have a hard time understand Matthew mumbles.  I keep turning up the TV but it doesn't help.




I turn on the closed captioning for this show.


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## zippie

*schmoo* said:


> I turn on the closed captioning for this show.


 

GOOD IDEA


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## tln

gemini582 said:


> That episode was stressful. It felt like a mini movie. The shoot out was impressive. It takes a lot of skill to choreograph something like that.



I was stressed out watching this one! My favorite so far.


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## gracekelly

Many people found this episode confusing, but the end sequence that was all one shot was pretty impressive.  I agree, closed captions are the way to go.  Between the mumbling and the accents


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## wordpast

The last episode was intense!


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## lurkernomore

gemini582 said:


> That episode was stressful. It felt like a mini movie. The shoot out was impressive. It takes a lot of skill to choreograph something like that.



agreed! I was exhausted at the end, and I was on the sofa in my robe. I think the camera angles made this episode - you felt like you were in the shoot-out!


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## neonfiller

wordpast said:


> The last episode was intense!




I am really loving every element of this show from the characters to the soundtrack. Great acting from two actors I never really appreciated until now.


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## ShoeFanatic

chowlover2 said:


> Matt has blossomed. His acting is just blowing me away.



Agreed!
I've never thought he was all that until this series. Love the writing.
Anyone think he's molesting the daughter?


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## neonfiller

ShoeFanatic said:


> Agreed!
> 
> I've never thought he was all that until this series. Love the writing.
> 
> Anyone think he's molesting the daughter?




That makes total sense. He's pretty strange.


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## chowlover2

ShoeFanatic said:


> Agreed!
> I've never thought he was all that until this series. Love the writing.
> Anyone think he's molesting the daughter?


I'm wondering if Matthew is the killer...


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## gracekelly

neonfiller said:


> That makes total sense. He's pretty strange.



I never thought of that, but how would she come up with a picture like that?

No, MMc is not the killer, but Woody could be, though I don't think he has the time to molest little girls or kill.


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## chowlover2

I don't get the vibe that Woody is the killer. He has a wife and family ( well, had ) girl on the side and a full time job. he just seems too normal.  Like when the two of them were looking for the bunny ranch. Woody questioned the guys and was ok, Matt went back in and strong armed them. Matt on the other hand has those problems from all the drugs he took as an undercover narc agent. I could see him doing something crazy and not even knowing her did it. He's a wild card. Maybe it's Quesada, their boss??? I have no idea, the lead they are following now makes perfect sense to me.


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## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> I don't get the vibe that Woody is the killer. He has a wife and family ( well, had ) girl on the side and a full time job. he just seems too normal.  Like when the two of them were looking for the bunny ranch. Woody questioned the guys and was ok, Matt went back in and strong armed them. Matt on the other hand has those problems from all the drugs he took as an undercover narc agent. I could see him doing something crazy and not even knowing her did it. He's a wild card. Maybe it's Quesada, their boss??? I have no idea, the lead they are following now makes perfect sense to me.



The thing I did not trust about Woody was how he was saying how normal he was compared to MMc,  He kept stressing his family and in reality, he lost them in divorce.  He was trying a little too hard.  MMc is just too obvious given his _normal _behavior is so weird.

They need to surprise us.  Maybe it will be a woman who is the killer?


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## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> The thing I did not trust about Woody was how he was saying how normal he was compared to MMc,  He kept stressing his family and in reality, he lost them in divorce.  He was trying a little too hard.  MMc is just too obvious given his _normal _behavior is so weird.
> 
> They need to surprise us.  Maybe it will be a woman who is the killer?


I hope it's someone we don't see coming! I want a total surprise, yet someone who makes sense as well.


I am curious who they are lining up to play the leads in season 2.


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## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> I hope it's someone we don't see coming! I want a total surprise, yet someone who makes sense as well.
> 
> 
> I am curious who they are lining up to play the leads in season 2.



They started a trend by using two actors who never do television, so hope it continues.


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## lurkernomore

chowlover2 said:


> I hope it's someone we don't see coming! I want a total surprise, yet someone who makes sense as well.
> 
> 
> I am curious who they are lining up to play the leads in season 2.




I don't know if he would consider television, but I could see Nicholas Cage as a lead...


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## Charles

Wait, who are you guys suggesting Rust molested??  His own daughter or the little girl that went missing??  I don't think Rust is behind any of it...UNLESS he did it in some altered state.


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## chowlover2

lurkernomore said:


> I don't know if he would consider television, but I could see Nicholas Cage as a lead...


That's a good idea!


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## tln

I read an interview with one of the big shots of the show who said that 85% of what you need to know to figure everything out is in the FIRST episode.  I need to watch it again, because I can't figure it out so far.


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## chowlover2

tln said:


> I read an interview with one of the big shots of the show who said that 85% of what you need to know to figure everything out is in the FIRST episode.  I need to watch it again, because I can't figure it out so far.


That's interesting, I guess I need to watch it again.


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## gracekelly

tln said:


> I read an interview with one of the big shots of the show who said that 85% of what you need to know to figure everything out is in the FIRST episode.  I need to watch it again, because I can't figure it out so far.



Now that is very intriguing!  I will go back and watch it and this time with captioning because I can't understand half of what the good ol' boys are saying.


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## Charles

tln said:


> I read an interview with one of the big shots of the show who said that 85% of what you need to know to figure everything out is in the FIRST episode.  I need to watch it again, because I can't figure it out so far.



Got a link to that interview?


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## *schmoo*

Boo, I didn't know Matt and Woody wouldn't be back for the next season.


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## honuhonu

gracekelly said:


> They started a trend by using two actors who never do television, so hope it continues.



I mentioned this to my DH and he said, well, except for all those years Woody was on Cheers!  I forgot about that, I guess.


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## gracekelly

honuhonu said:


> I mentioned this to my DH and he said, well, except for all those years Woody was on Cheers!  I forgot about that, I guess.



Gosh!! I forgot about that too!   Once he left TV  he never went back and only made films.  In England and EU actors moved easily between stage, screen and TV.  They really don't do that  here because they tend to get pegged in the US.


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## ShoeFanatic

gracekelly said:


> I never thought of that, but how would she come up with a picture like that?
> 
> No, MMc is not the killer, but Woody could be, though I don't think he has the time to molest little girls or kill.



When MMc came over to WH house to mow the lawn and was talking to the wife, he and the little girl that was watching TV exchanged weird (IMO) looks..or maybe it was the little girl that looked at him odd, can't recall, either way,
the few seconds it happened didn't seem right.
I wondered why she was watching (looking) at him so oddly... When the drawings were discovered/discussed, I thought of that scene..

MMc character seems to obvious to be the killer.
I think WH may have a dark side, but not that dark..
perhaps each has a dark side that the other discovers..


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## andicandi3x12

I think the biggest key,  which a reviewer pointed out is, we have no choice but to believe that these men are telling the truth in the first place. That time and memory, or the need to hide something hasnt skewed their storytelling. The files were destroyed on this case and the flashbacks are from their memories/point of view. The writer then introduced the idea that one of them could be making things up and referenced the usual suspects. I found that very interesting and it changed the way I thought about the show entirely.


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## andicandi3x12

Rewatching now as well but to start, they ask each of them different things. Rust is interviewed 4 days before Hart  and is asked about the case. Hart is interviewed second but is asked about rust, not the case.


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## Deco

I'm having a hard time believing that either of these two detectives is the killer, largely because it will render this show monumentally unsatisfying.  I can accept that they are hiding something and that this investigation devolves into a clusterF* that's too horrible to reveal up front, but not that either is the killer.  That's just too easy, not to mention cheesy.  It's hard to effectively pull off an unreliable narrator plot twist.  Usual Suspects did it brilliantly because the sideshow gimp low life was the mastermind.  Angel Heart and Fight Club did it brilliantly because the twist was unknown to even the narrators/perpetrators.  I don't see how they can pull off that kind of a twist here without relying on something cheesy like Cohle's PTSD.

I admit it's unusual that every single correct theory, advance and break in this investigation so far has come from Cohle, and usually by him having connected dots no-one else sees.  But if that just ends up being "Cohle is the killer", then that's a let down.

There has to be something about 2002.  Unless I've missed it, the narratives so far are from 1995, and the interviews are taking place in 2012.  But something happens in 2002 as well, and I don't think we've seen flashbacks to that year yet.  These two had a falling out and haven't seen each other since 2002, so I wonder what happened then.


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## *schmoo*

I'm beginning to think it's Rust


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## Deco

Did anyone notice the owl sitting up high on a bare beam in the burnt church?  That was eerie, and yet neither of them saw it, and the camera never focused on it.


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## neonfiller

Decophile said:


> Did anyone notice the owl sitting up high on a bare beam in the burnt church?  That was eerie, and yet neither of them saw it, and the camera never focused on it.




I saw that owl as well. I also noticed that Reggie LeDoux did not seem to have a spiral tattoo on his back like someone had claimed. I was left with a whole lotta freaky thoughts after last night's episode. Something about that Tuttle guy gives me the creeps.


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## andicandi3x12

I don't think cohle is the killer.  I think he is capable of killing to possibly draw the killer out through imitation/ego. I think he fell off the grid because he knew how big this actually was. And was working this alone the entire time. Hart makes me mad with his dumb remarks, like duh someone told that guy something over the phone to make him kill himself, why even ask what it has to do with the suicide. Why act dumb about why the task force wanted the case? Maybe hart is in on the whole thing anyway.  Cohle may be guilty of something but not what they think. He seems to be upset that he missed a lot of things right in his face, and wants to solve it and dig deeper, than to just wanna kill.


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## gracekelly

andicandi3x12 said:


> I don't think cohle is the killer.  I think he is capable of killing to possibly draw the killer out through imitation/ego. I think he fell off the grid because he knew how big this actually was. And was working this alone the entire time. Hart makes me mad with his dumb remarks, like duh someone told that guy something over the phone to make him kill himself, why even ask what it has to do with the suicide. Why act dumb about why the task force wanted the case? Maybe hart is in on the whole thing anyway.  Cohle may be guilty of something but not what they think. *He seems to be upset that he missed a lot of things right in his face, and wants to solve it and dig deeper*, than to just wanna kill.



I agree with this.  I don't think he ever gave up the case.  I really doubt he is the killer.  That would be way too easy for this story.  The killer or killers must be higher ups in the police food chain.  That video was messed with.  Someone was able to get into the cell and give this guy what he needed to kill himself or they killed him.  

Why do I think that Audrey is somehow tied in with this.  She had this creepy goth look last night.  I also wondered if she was molested by her grandfather and that accounted for the drawing she made when she was younger and her wild behavior as a teen.   Was it the writer who stated that we met the killer/killers in the first episode?  That is what has me thinking it is grandpa and/or his friends.  Why introduce this info about Audrey unless it has some meaning to the overall story?

I thought the best comment was Marty telling the detectives that while they thought they were reading Cohle, Cohle was reading them.


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## littlerock

I don't think either are the killers, that would be far too easy. However, we have yet to learn the full extent of their involvement or associations to what is going on- that's clear.

What about the scene where Woody is saying something like, his only crime is not paying enough attention back then (or something to that effect.) And as he's narrating the scene, the girls are fighting over a crown. The horns were described as a crown in pervious episodes, IIRC. The then crown dangles in the tree like one of those weird wood thingies. Bizarre.

I wonder what's up with Woody's dad.


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## lurkernomore

I am totally sucked into this show....I did have weird dreams last night, though. 
The last scene in the school with the religious statues creeped me out. 
I also think Rust is not the killer, I think the murders haunt him, and he is still trying to figure out the case.


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## littlerock

I think Rust is just broken (or evolved?) from life in general, and the evil that exists. Between what happened with his Daughter, his cases, and now these murders.. he's stuck in kind of a warped vacuum of evil reality. To quote: He's seen the monster.


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## gracekelly

littlerock said:


> I don't think either are the killers, that would be far too easy. However, we have yet to learn the full extent of their involvement or associations to what is going on- that's clear.
> 
> *What about the scene where Woody is saying something like, his only crime is not paying enough attention back then (or something to that effect.*) And as he's narrating the scene, the girls are fighting over a crown. The horns were described as a crown in pervious episodes, IIRC. The then crown dangles in the tree like one of those weird wood thingies. Bizarre.
> 
> I wonder what's up with Woody's dad.




Yes this is important and I think it relates to the molestation of his daughter too.  I am pretty sure at this point that something happened to her as a child.


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## sthrncin

Great great great show last night!! I couldn't take my eyes off the screen for a second!


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## Deco

neonfiller said:


> I saw that owl as well. I also noticed that Reggie LeDoux did not seem to have a spiral tattoo on his back like someone had claimed. I was left with a whole lotta freaky thoughts after last night's episode. Something about that Tuttle guy gives me the creeps.



It wasnt a tattoo.  They said he had a spiral brand, which he did.


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## neonfiller

I'll have to watch this episode again. I completely missed the spiral.  Does anyone else share the feeling that Cohl has had some past inside experience with these types of underground groups before and that may be why he is so obsessed with finding the killer(s).


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## LeeLooDallasMP

neonfiller said:


> I'll have to watch this episode again. I completely missed the spiral.  Does anyone else share the feeling that Cohl has had some past inside experience with these types of underground groups before and that may be why he is so obsessed with finding the killer(s).



Cohle has worked in the narc before, if I recall he said so in the 1st couple of episodes, and from there he went cuckoo and ended up in the psychiatric hospital.


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## LeeLooDallasMP

I'm just looking forward to their reunion 17 years later, that's when the bomb will be dropped about the killer. I have the feeling it's someone unexpected yet obvious.


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## Deco

I think Cohle went off the grid because he distrusts law enforcement at this point, or he thinks there are people high up in power involved in the ritual killings, so he has to go it alone.


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## tln

gracekelly said:


> I thought the best comment was Marty telling the detectives that while they thought they were reading Cohle, Cohle was reading them.



This.  

I also wonder why they'd have the back story with Audrey drawing those pictures if it wasn't tied in somehow.  

I never watch the previews, but I did this week.  It looks like they interview Marty's wife soon.  I am looking forward to that.


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## Charles

Am I the only one that thinks Maggie and Rust are going to hook up?  Obviously something happens to cause a divorce.  Seems like Maggie and Marty reconciled the cheating, so it's not that.

But yeah, that comment Marty made about not paying attention.  So he's admitting that he overlooked something...either with his daughters or with Maggie...or both.


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## wordpast

Charles said:


> *Am I the only one that thinks Maggie and Rust are going to hook up?* Obviously something happens to cause a divorce. Seems like Maggie and Marty reconciled the cheating, so it's not that.
> 
> But yeah, that comment Marty made about not paying attention. So he's admitting that he overlooked something...either with his daughters or with Maggie...or both.


 
Nope! I've always thought they had some type of chemistry and that they would hook up.


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## gracekelly

Did anyone wonder why they had two African American detectives working the new case and doing the interviews?  I think that there is an all white good ol' boys network at play here and they need detectives who were not part of this, hence the two guys we are seeing in the interrogation.

I don't think that Cohle would have an affair with Maggie.  He wouldn't consider this to be fair play.  I'm not even convinced that he and Marty are on the outs.  This may be a ruse because they are both still working the case.  I am sure that Cohle is, at any rate.


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## GCGDanielle

gracekelly said:


> I'm not even convinced that he and Marty are on the outs.  This may be a ruse because they are both still working the case.  I am sure that Cohle is, at any rate.



Ooohhh, interesting.  I hadn't thought of this as a possible scenario.  Nice!


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## gemini582

gracekelly said:


> Did anyone wonder why they had two African American detectives working the new case and doing the interviews?  I think that there is an all white good ol' boys network at play here and they need detectives who were not part of this, hence the two guys we are seeing in the interrogation.
> 
> I don't think that Cohle would have an affair with Maggie.  He wouldn't consider this to be fair play.  I'm not even convinced that he and Marty are on the outs.  This may be a ruse because they are both still working the case.  I am sure that Cohle is, at any rate.


I think you're right. The murders are obviously part of something larger and Cohle and Hart never stopped working to solve it. This is one big act and the two detectives are just pawns. They don't know what's really going on.


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## littlerock

I would not be surprised if we never found out who the killer is/ killers are. My guess is that the show will point to it in various ways but without ever actually saying it. Anyone else feel this way?


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## LeeLooDallasMP

gracekelly said:


> Did anyone wonder why they had two African American detectives working the new case and doing the interviews?  I think that there is an all white good ol' boys network at play here and they need detectives who were not part of this, hence the two guys we are seeing in the interrogation.
> 
> I don't think that Cohle would have an affair with Maggie.  He wouldn't consider this to be fair play.  I'm not even convinced that he and Marty are on the outs.  This may be a ruse because they are both still working the case.  I am sure that Cohle is, at any rate.



From what I recall, the scene where Cohle leaves, it's the police office they used to work at, there are new faces, and there is a Black guy in a suit who looked like a chief or something, so it could be that when the similar murder case came up, they called back the best ones on it i.e. Cohle and Marty.

And yeah it could be possible that it might be a ruse, given how they lied about the shootout scene. However I still tend to believe both had a fallout, they were already opposite characters to start with and there was always some tension between them.

As for Maggie, I think she saw in Cohle a comforting shoulder, a friend or someone she could rely on even though she is aware the man is damaged, part of me thinks that it's the fact that Cohle is the opposite of her then husband made her somehow comfortable around him, Marty was/is a time ticking bomb whereas Cohle, what you see is what you get.


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## Kitsunegrl

I sincerely hope that there will not be a molestation story here. It is such a serious issue and putting that in an already tight story seems unnecessary and trite. Jmo

I don't think Rust and Maggie get together. I think Marty falls back to drinking and whoring and that causes a split again.


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## gracekelly

Kitsunegrl said:


> I sincerely hope that there will not be a molestation story here. It is such a serious issue and putting that in an already tight story seems unnecessary and trite. Jmo
> 
> I don't think Rust and Maggie get together. I think Marty falls back to drinking and whoring and that causes a split again.



I understand your feeling about molestation, but I think that is a big part of the story. Don't forget that they found two young girls when they killed Le Doux

I also am thinking that what caused the final break-up of Maggie and Marty is that Marty investigated where and what Audrey had been up to.  He keeps talking about the detective's curse i.e. not see what is in front of you.  When he finally puts it together, he blames Maggie


----------



## littlerock

gracekelly said:


> *I understand your feeling about molestation, but I think that is a big part of the story. Don't forget that they found two young girls when they killed Le Doux*
> 
> I also am thinking that what caused the final break-up of Maggie and Marty is that Marty investigated where and what Audrey had been up to.  He keeps talking about the detective's curse i.e. not see what is in front of you.  When he finally puts it together, he blames Maggie



Wasn't one a boy? The one that died? I could have gotten that wrong, now I'm curious.


----------



## gracekelly

littlerock said:


> Wasn't one a boy? The one that died? I could have gotten that wrong, now I'm curious.



I assumed they were girls.  Perhaps I was wrong.  I plan on re-watching this with captions.


----------



## lucywife

gracekelly said:


> I assumed they were girls.  Perhaps I was wrong.  I plan on re-watching this with captions.


A boy that died and a little girl.


----------



## littlerock

gracekelly said:


> I assumed they were girls.  Perhaps I was wrong.  I plan on re-watching this with captions.



I assumed girls too, when they first found them, which is why I was taken aback when one was described to be a boy (the scene where they're being carried out..) I thought maybe I heard wrong, which is why I asked. 



lucywife said:


> A boy that died and a little girl.



Ok, just checking. Interesting, huh? The easy thing would be to make little girls the victims (seems obvious) but perhaps it's children in general. The innocent.


----------



## gracekelly

littlerock said:


> I assumed girls too, when they first found them, which is why I was taken aback when one was described to be a boy (the scene where they're being carried out..) I thought maybe I heard wrong, which is why I asked.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, just checking. Interesting, huh? The easy thing would be to make little girls the victims (seems obvious) but perhaps it's children in general. The innocent.



I don't think it is a spoiler to say that when they get to 2012, the detectives are on cases of girls that were killed. I suspect that is why I thought the 1995 children were girls as well.  This also brings up the question of why a boy was a prisoner if the majority of the murders were of girls.  

This is a really good recap of the last episode.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014...isode-5-the-secret-fate-of-all-life-tv-recap/


----------



## Charles

I was rewatching episode 2 and Rust said something to the prostitute that he was getting 'ludes from. "I am trouble.  I'm police.  I can do horrible things to people, without impunity".  Probably just a line to make us think he's possibly involved, but yeah.


----------



## Brandless

I have been watching this with captions since first episode yet I still missed some details. Anyway, I wonder why Marty just shot Ladoux right out even when he was already cuffed. Was he afraid the latter would reveal something? Then in the last episode, the two detectives interrogating Cohle showed him a group picture with him in it. And what is he hiding in his storage? What is the significance of Marty's daughter in the plot? So many questions! I also watched one interview at "Darkness Becomes You" and the guy mentioned the Yellow King as taken from some mythology.


----------



## Charles

He shot Reggie cause he was so appalled at what he saw inside.


----------



## lucywife

Brandless said:


> I have been watching this with captions since first episode yet I still missed some details. *Anyway, I wonder why Marty just shot Ladoux right out even when he was already cuffed. Was he afraid the latter would reveal something?* Then in the last episode, the two detectives interrogating Cohle showed him a group picture with him in it. And what is he hiding in his storage? What is the significance of Marty's daughter in the plot? So many questions! I also watched one interview at "Darkness Becomes You" and the guy mentioned the Yellow King as taken from some mythology.


No. I think it was justice. Otherwise, those two low lives will end up in court, plead insanity and taxpayers will pay for their three square meals/day. Scum like that doesn't deserve to live.


----------



## littlerock

Charles said:


> I was rewatching episode 2 and Rust said something to the prostitute that he was getting 'ludes from. "I am trouble.  I'm police.  I can do horrible things to people, without impunity".  Probably just a line to make us think he's possibly involved, but yeah.



Or that the show was hinting to what Rust already knows about higher-ups and officials around town..?


----------



## Charles

Ok, this is funny:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...y_harrelson_and_matthew_mcconaughey_talk.html

Also, there's a subreddit with a lot of good points and theories

www.reddit.com/r/truedetective


----------



## lurkernomore

Charles said:


> Ok, this is funny:
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...y_harrelson_and_matthew_mcconaughey_talk.html
> 
> Also, there's a subreddit with a lot of good points and theories
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/truedetective




Love the same look on Marty's face after Rust answers on slate.com, and reddit I try to avoid, or I have suddenly lost two hours of my life I will never get back, but I might have to take that chance for True Detective!


----------



## littlerock

Charles said:


> Ok, this is funny:
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...y_harrelson_and_matthew_mcconaughey_talk.html



Love it!


----------



## gracekelly

Charles said:


> Ok, this is funny:
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...y_harrelson_and_matthew_mcconaughey_talk.html
> 
> Also, there's a subreddit with a lot of good points and theories
> 
> www.reddit.com/r/truedetective



Very funny!


----------



## lucywife

Charles said:


> I was rewatching episode 2 and Rust said something to the prostitute that he was getting 'ludes from. "I am trouble.  I'm police.  I can do horrible things to people, without impunity".  Probably just a line to make us think he's possibly involved, but yeah.



The bunny ranch they went to to question prostitutes belonged (partially) the the cheriff, "madam" said she was "leasing" the place. When cheriff showed up with a pompous man at the police station, right after the first victim and newspaper article, and the task force was supposed to get involved, there was a lot of pressure to clean this up and make it go away as soon as possible (maybe this is the direction to look at?) while with the case of two children they found, that little boy that died was reported missing for months and that was clearly different cases with different victims and motives.
The one they are trying to find, is in the process of some pagan worshipping with symbols and rituals and his victims are young women, I think both Rust and Marty knew it wasn't the yellow king they found when they got Ledough. Ledough and his partner were cooking drugs and raping 4 year olds, I wonder if they followed up to find if there were other children reported missing and found dead in those swamps?


----------



## TinksDelite

gracekelly said:


> I also am thinking that what caused the final break-up of Maggie and Marty is that Marty investigated where and what Audrey had been up to. He keeps talking about the detective's curse i.e. not see what is in front of you. When he finally puts it together, he blames Maggie


 
You might just be onto something... when she got caught w/ the two boys "in a state of undress" & ran into her room after Marty slapped her.  Maggie was at the door & the way she said "Its just you & me..." gave the impression that they had something going on between the two of them, that Marty wasn't a party to.


----------



## gracekelly

TinksDelite said:


> You might just be onto something... when she got caught w/ the two boys "in a state of undress" & ran into her room after Marty slapped her.  Maggie was at the door & the way she said "Its just you & me..." gave the impression that they had something going on between the two of them, that Marty wasn't a party to.



I think that may have been more that she was not physically abusive and the girl knew she would not hit her and would just try to talk with her.  Maggie is calmer and less excitable than Marty.  Marty has to blame someone, so I think it would be a knee jerk reaction on his part to blame her.  If Maggie's father was doing something bad, I like to think that she would not stand still for it.  In the first episode she berates her mother for putting up with a lot from the father.


----------



## TinksDelite

I've been pondering the pilot episode... Does anyone else think that it could be the Preacher Billy Lee Tuttle, who happens to also be the Governors Cousin??  Just a hunch...


----------



## gracekelly

TinksDelite said:


> I've been pondering the pilot episode... Does anyone else think that it could be the Preacher Billy Lee Tuttle, who happens to also be the Governors Cousin??  Just a hunch...



Oh yes!  Dirty big time!  The end of the last episode, Cohle went to the abandoned school and found those straw creepy things in the classroom.


----------



## Deco

TinksDelite said:


> I've been pondering the pilot episode... Does anyone else think that it could be the Preacher Billy Lee Tuttle, who happens to also be the Governors Cousin??  Just a hunch...


 Tuttle is showing up all over the place.  1. Governor's cousin and link to high power. 2. Set up the task force to take the investigation over from Rusk and Marty. 3. The tent preacher of the church where Dora Lange went, and where the drawing was found on the wall of the scorched church, trained at Tuttle's preacher school. 4. The earlier victim that Rust linked to the same killer went to Tuttle's school, where in 2002 Rust found all the devil catchers and creepy dead children drawings on the wall.


----------



## *schmoo*

^Looks like you're right. He's involved.


----------



## deltalady

I had a feeling that the fall out was over the wife. Maggie and Rust have great chemistry.


----------



## sthrncin

Me too, but that was nasty of Maggie to do him wrong like that.


----------



## sthrncin

sthrncin said:


> Me too, but that was nasty of Maggie to do him wrong like that.




Meaning rust, because he has always been nice to her.


----------



## lucywife

I think it was a matter of time between Maggie and Rust, I don't know who regretted it more after, probably Maggie. For Rust it was clearly a moment of weakness, for Maggie-she liked Rust and was comparing him to her husband of 17 years cheating and drinking Marty.
Anyhow, I'm glad Rust quit state police and left the way he did, all those policemen, the sheriff, the way they spoke to him, treated him...I felt horrible for Rust.


----------



## Deco

Rust strikes me as pretty naive at this point.  If he's picked up on what's looking like a systematic, ongoing cover up of the murders of women and children, with the perpetrators being all the way up the power chain, he sure is going about this investigation the wrong way.  Why would you alert a whole bunch of people, including Rev. Tuttle himself, that they are being investigated? And then reveal this to your boss when you still have no evidence and haven't determined who you can trust yet?

Unless of course Rust intends to get on the dangerous people's radar.

Why would this secret group that's been secretly murdering people for so long decide to make a big spectacle of their kills with Dora Lange and again with the new kill in 2012?


----------



## LeeLooDallasMP

lucywife said:


> I think it was a matter of time between Maggie  and Rust, I don't know who regretted it more after, probably Maggie. For  Rust it was clearly a moment of weakness, for Maggie-she liked Rust and  was comparing him to her husband of 17 years cheating and drinking  Marty.
> Anyhow, I'm glad Rust quit state police and left the way he did, all  those policemen, the sheriff, the way they spoke to him, treated him...I  felt horrible for Rust.



Maggie wanted to end it with Marty ages ago and wanted to strike hard so  she used Rust to that end, the man at the bar wouldn't have had that  much long lasting effect. I also believe she wanted to indulge in her  sexual attraction to him.  I  totally understand why she did it but still using Rust and ending the  already fragile friendship both men had is a 

I on the other hand believe Rust regretted it the most because as much as he is a loner, Marty and his family were anything Cohle had the closest to a bit of a normal life at some point (even with Marty f*cked up ways), and Marty was the closest thing of a friend/ally he had. So when Maggie pulled up her panties he realized something wasn't right (you know as opposite to the _"oh yes let's roll on the floor and gimme some more yaaaaaass!"_) and when she said she used him, he lost the last bit of faith he had in the "normal" relationship they had. Also even if both were opposites, Marty held Rust up to a certain standard of respect and valuable, feared him because Rust wasn't afraid of being who he was, whereas Marty loose canon is a coward hiding behind the good cop image and husband facade. So it all was shattered to realize that Rust would cross the line beyond mowing the lawn.

My man believes that Marty was even more heartbroken that Rust cheated on him than Maggie cheating on him 

ETA: Rust and Marty are better together than apart, they have a Yin/Yang  sort of relationship. Deep down Marty still holds Rust to a standard because otherwise he would have just thrown Rust under the bus ages ago. Both need each other's back imo.



Decophile said:


> Rust strikes me as pretty naive at this point.  If he's picked up on what's looking like a systematic, ongoing cover up of the murders of women and children, with the perpetrators being all the way up the power chain, he sure is going about this investigation the wrong way.  Why would you alert a whole bunch of people, including Rev. Tuttle himself, that they are being investigated? And then reveal this to your boss when you still have no evidence and haven't determined who you can trust yet?
> 
> Unless of course Rust intends to get on the dangerous people's radar.
> 
> _*Why would this secret group that's been secretly murdering people for so long decide to make a big spectacle of their kills with Dora Lange and again with the new kill in 2012?*_



I don't think Rust was naive, I think as you wrote, it was intentional. He knew what he was doing by defying orders (or should I say not give a f*ck as per usual) and kept digging to hit the nail, which he definitely did whilst speaking to the Rev, you could see he was asking specific questions and observing the Rev reactions and answers, hence why by the end he turned down the offer of being helped by an employee, because he knew the so called files of the W. program were destroyed anyway.

As for the last part I bolded it could be that when one has the power and feels untouchable, one is openly showing off, it reminds me a bit of John Doe in Se7en.


----------



## Deco

LeeLooDallasMP said:


> I don't think Rust was naive, I think as you wrote, it was intentional. He knew what he was doing by defying orders (or should I say not give a f*ck as per usual) and kept digging to hit the nail, which he definitely did whilst speaking to the Rev, you could see he was asking specific questions and observing the Rev reactions and answers, hence why by the end he turned down the offer of being helped by an employee, because he knew the so called files of the W. program were destroyed anyway.
> 
> As for the last part I bolded it could be that when one has the power and feels untouchable, one is openly showing off, it reminds me a bit of John Doe in Se7en.


 I definitely agree that Rust was trying to get a read on the Rev instead of usable info.  I just thought he could accomplish all of this without tipping anyone off that he's on their tail.  But as you said, he wants them to know he's on their tail.  I just don't know what he had to gain but exposing himself.


----------



## LeeLooDallasMP

Decophile said:


> I definitely agree that Rust was trying to get a read on the Rev instead of usable info.  I just thought he could accomplish all of this without tipping anyone off that he's on their tail.  But as you said, he wants them to know he's on their tail.  I just don't know what he had to gain but exposing himself.



Well it's now known that Rust confident arrogance is due to the fact that he looks at man's depravity and human misery unflinchingly, but the badge would also help him to access certain areas whereas if he were a regular Joe he'd be denied all that access, I don't think the Rev nor the grieving father nor anybody else would have easily said "hey regular Joe ask me any question you want"... He knows that to a certain extend, the police system has its necessary help, access to police files and other cases, new tails, Marty being a huge help to have his back whether one likes it or not, it was only a matter of time before he got suspended. So he wasn't afraid to expose it out in the air since he didn't follow the orders, the so-called police system who praised him and Marty for their bravery in the Ledoux shooting, the same people are just as hypocrites, cowards and turn a blind eye when it comes to tail a big fish, add to the downfall with Marty on the personal level, he quit just as fast and went onto a solo quest to solve the case.


----------



## Deco

^ yeah, you pretty much nailed it.


----------



## wordpast

I cannot get over how good Mathew is in this role!


----------



## chowlover2

wordpast said:


> I cannot get over how good Mathew is in this role!




Agreed!


----------



## Deco

wordpast said:


> I cannot get over how good Mathew is in this role!


 True.  He's so good he makes me forget that it's Matthew.  I've completely bought into this Rust Cohle character.


----------



## lucywife

And so is Woody Harrelson, he's so organic as Marty, the show is definitely my favorite.


----------



## Charles

Ok, so there's heavy emphasis on Marty's daughters.  There's a reason they showed them with the male dolls surrounding the one girl doll and the focus on the oldest being rebellious...the crown that's hanging in the tree (alluding to the antler crown??).  I'm getting a strong vibe that they're involved, or will be.  We've yet to see the daughters in 2012, only 2002.
Speaking of, have you noticed a theme of 5 men?  There was a painting depicting 5 men on horses.  Rust makes 5 beer can men.  There were five male dolls surrounding the female doll.  Watching...like the abducted girl was saying.  Maybe there are 5 men involved in all of this?  LeDoux, the other cook, and the tall man with scars.


----------



## LavenderIce

Charles said:


> Ok, so there's heavy emphasis on Marty's daughters.  There's a reason they showed them with the male dolls surrounding the one girl doll and the focus on the oldest being rebellious...the crown that's hanging in the tree (alluding to the antler crown??).  I'm getting a strong vibe that they're involved, or will be.  We've yet to see the daughters in 2012, only 2002.
> Speaking of, have you noticed a theme of 5 men?  There was a painting depicting 5 men on horses.  Rust makes 5 beer can men.  There were five male dolls surrounding the female doll.  Watching...like the abducted girl was saying.  Maybe there are 5 men involved in all of this?  LeDoux, the other cook, and the tall man with scars.



In the preview for next week's episode, you know Marty saw something and by his reaction, I do think his daughter's are involved in some way.  As for five men, I could see that.  In addition to the three you mentioned above, what about Rev. Tuttle and the Govenor?


----------



## Deco

LavenderIce said:


> *In the preview for next week's episode, you know Marty saw something and by his reaction, I do think his daughter's are involved in some way*.  As for five men, I could see that.  In addition to the three you mentioned above, what about Rev. Tuttle and the Govenor?


 That's the sense I got from Marty's reaction as well.  It was so personal.


----------



## sthrncin

Has this been picked up for a second season? I sure hope so!! Next week looks like an awesome show.


----------



## LavenderIce

sthrncin said:


> Has this been picked up for a second season? I sure hope so!! Next week looks like an awesome show.



I believe it has been picked up for a second season, but it will have different characters.


----------



## sthrncin

LavenderIce said:


> I believe it has been picked up for a second season, but it will have different characters.




Oh man that will suck. I really like them together.


----------



## chowlover2

LavenderIce said:


> I believe it has been picked up for a second season, but it will have different characters.




I think the plan is to do 3 or 4 seasons with different leads each season. On the actors part it is a huge commitment. I just saw Matthew on Inside the Actors Studio, and the series took 6 months to film, with 450 pages of script. I believe he said Dallas Buyers Club took a month. He also said the script was just  too good to say no to, so here's hoping season 2 is a winner as well.


----------



## LavenderIce

chowlover2 said:


> I think the plan is to do 3 or 4 seasons with different leads each season. On the actors part it is a huge commitment. I just saw Matthew on Inside the Actors Studio, and the series took 6 months to film, with 450 pages of script. I believe he said Dallas Buyers Club took a month. He also said the script was just  too good to say no to, so here's hoping season 2 is a winner as well.



Yes, I read an interview with the director who said the same thing about filming as well.  They spent around 12.5 days per episode, filming from January to June of last year.


----------



## tln

Decophile said:


> That's the sense I got from Marty's reaction as well.  It was so personal.



He CANNOT tolerate children being victims, I agree.  He has such a strong reaction-shooting LeDoux as soon as he found the kids and agreeing to help Rust after watching that video tape.  I feel like there's something we have not yet learned about that.


----------



## gemini582

I love this show but there is so much information I have to keep rewatching scenes. Hopefully, the season finale doesn't disappoint.


----------



## chowlover2

Maybe Marty's ex father in law is somehow connected to the group? Might explain the things with his older daughter. I can't believe he was dropped in the story for no reason, or that his daughter's drawings had nothing to do with the story. How they are going to wrap everything up in an hour I do not know..


----------



## Deco

gemini582 said:


> I love this show but there is so much information I have to keep rewatching scenes. Hopefully, the season finale doesn't disappoint.


 I'm having a hard time envisioning how the finale can live up to the promise of the rest of the season.  The last episode didn't advance the ball a whole lot, and 1 episode doesn't seam enough to tie up all the loose ends in a quality way.  I hope I'm wrong.  

Also, don't know if that's the intended conclusion, but if the lawnmower dude is supposed to be the scarred face, then I'm disappointed.  I didn't think his face was that scarred to be the single most distinguishing characteristic everyone would mention.  I'd describe him more as a lumbering dim wit than the scarred face.


----------



## Deco

chowlover2 said:


> Maybe Marty's ex father in law is somehow connected to the group? Might explain the things with his older daughter. I can't believe he was dropped in the story for no reason, *or that his daughter's drawings had nothing to do with the story. How they are going to wrap everything up in an hour I do not know..*


 Yes, exactly.  They have to tie the daughter and the way she laid out the dolls to what's been happening with the missing children, especially since they all involve five males descending on one downed female.  Just too much material to cover, and I'm afraid not enough time to develop it unless things devolve into a hoaky mess.  Hope they pull it off.


----------



## terps08

Decophile said:


> I'm having a hard time envisioning how the finale can live up to the promise of the rest of the season.  The last episode didn't advance the ball a whole lot, and 1 episode doesn't seam enough to tie up all the loose ends in a quality way.  I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> Also, don't know if that's the intended conclusion, but if the lawnmower dude is supposed to be the scarred face, then I'm disappointed.  I didn't think his face was that scarred to be the single most distinguishing characteristic everyone would mention.  I'd describe him more as a lumbering dim wit than the scarred face.



I agree and also didn't they already meet him earlier in the season?  When he was mowing another church or school... Wouldn't they already have put 2 and 2 together?


----------



## deltalady

terps08 said:


> I agree and also didn't they already meet him earlier in the season?  When he was mowing another church or school... Wouldn't they already have put 2 and 2 together?



He had a beard back then. Couldn't see the scars.


----------



## gemini582

Decophile said:


> I'm having a hard time envisioning how the finale can live up to the promise of the rest of the season.  The last episode didn't advance the ball a whole lot, and 1 episode doesn't seam enough to tie up all the loose ends in a quality way.  I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> *Also, don't know if that's the intended conclusion, but if the lawnmower dude is supposed to be the scarred face, then I'm disappointed.  I didn't think his face was that scarred to be the single most distinguishing characteristic everyone would mention.  I'd describe him more as a lumbering dim wit than the scarred face.*


If he's the man with the scarred face it's not what I imagined. I thought they would be much more severe almost to the point of being disfigured. I barely noticed these.


----------



## *schmoo*

I have to re-watch the entire season.  I'm getting lost.  I agree that the man's face didn't seem scarred enough to be "the one".  And I have a feeling that either Rust or Marty or both are not going to have a good ending.  Esp since they're getting themselves in trouble by holding up that sherif.


----------



## chowlover2

I saw an interview with Michelle Monaghan about the final episode and she called it " staggering ". That was all she could say without going into detail, so we just have to wait and see.


----------



## sthrncin

Guess it's gonna shock us all. I hope so anyway.


----------



## gracekelly

I think I need to re-watch this with a magnifying glass as I did not think he was that scarred, though he seems pretty sinister with his last comment.  

The only thing that would really shock me if if Maggie knew all about this.  Or worse, was part of it.  She looked like she made a prosperous 2nd marriage.

I think Marty and Rust have decided to do whatever  it takes to find the truth.  I had the feeling that Marty senses that his daughter is linked to this.


----------



## lucywife

terps08 said:


> I agree and also didn't they already meet him earlier in the season?  *When he was mowing another church or school*... Wouldn't they already have put 2 and 2 together?


 Yes! It was him, wasn't it?


----------



## gracekelly

lucywife said:


> Yes! It was him, wasn't it?



Yes, but he had a beard then.  He was mowing the lawn then too.  

Pagan crop circles.


----------



## lucywife

gracekelly said:


> Yes, but he had a beard then.  He was mowing the lawn then too.
> 
> Pagan crop circles.


 Interesting.

Did Maggie marry again? Did she say that or I'm missing something. I thought she was from a well to do family to begin with.


----------



## gracekelly

lucywife said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Did Maggie marry again? Did she say that or I'm missing something. I thought she was from a well to do family to begin with.



She had a different last name when they interviewed her so she remarried and she had a nicer house than she had.  

I thought it was interesting when Marty asked after the girls and Maggie mentioned Audrey being OK on her medication and having an art exhibition.   The younger girl probably left the state as soon as she could.

Interesting that Maggie sensed that Marty was coming to say goodbye.


----------



## lucywife

gracekelly said:


> She had a different last name when they interviewed her so she remarried and she had a nicer house than she had.
> 
> I thought it was interesting when Marty asked after the girls and Maggie mentioned Audrey being OK on her medication and having an art exhibition.   The younger girl probably left the state as soon as she could.
> 
> Interesting that Maggie sensed that Marty was coming to say goodbye.


You are right, I didn't even pay attention to different last name when two detectives addressed her.
I also agree that with whatever happened to Audrey, Maggie knows about it, Marty clearly is clueless.


----------



## LeeLooDallasMP

gracekelly said:


> She had a different last name when they interviewed her so she remarried and she had a nicer house than she had.
> 
> I thought it was interesting when Marty asked after the girls and Maggie mentioned Audrey being OK on her medication and having an art exhibition.   The younger girl probably left the state as soon as she could.
> 
> Interesting that Maggie sensed that Marty was coming to say goodbye.



In my mind when Maggie said Audrey was doing painting, I imagined Audrey's art linked to her trauma and she might have made dark paintings representing the cult.

Maggie sensed a goodbye because not only he came to ask her about what she told the cops and that he is going to help Rust, but Marty suddenly saying thank you for everything, it didn't sound right, after all they've been together for a long a$$ time.

I couldn't help but enjoy when Rust to her off 

Man I really wonder they are going to wrap this up in only one episode, I feel like there is so much left.


----------



## gracekelly

LeeLooDallasMP said:


> In my mind when Maggie said Audrey was doing painting, I imagined *Audrey's art linked to her trauma and she might have made dark paintings representing the cult.*
> 
> Maggie sensed a goodbye because not only he came to ask her about what she told the cops and that he is going to help Rust, but Marty suddenly saying thank you for everything, it didn't sound right, after all they've been together for a long a$$ time.
> 
> I couldn't help but enjoy when Rust to her off
> 
> Man I really wonder they are going to wrap this up in only one episode, I feel like there is so much left.



Yes.  I would think she was in therapy and the therapist told her to paint it all out. She tried as a child, but was punished for it.   The children were drugged into a semi-conscious state according to the boy that Rust spoke with at the bar.  Imagine going through life not be able to trust yourself to know what was real or what was imagined.


----------



## tln

chowlover2 said:


> How they are going to wrap everything up in an hour I do not know..



I feel this way too.  But, I've been so surprised (in a good way) about this show, in terms of writing and acting, so I'm anxious to see what happens.


----------



## Deco

lucywife said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Did Maggie marry again? Did she say that or I'm missing something. I thought she was from a well to do family to begin with.


 Yes, she was also wearing a whopper of a wedding ring.


----------



## TC1

I wonder if Maggie is married to someone inluential?, and that will come out. I also recall Rust talking to the guy on the lawn mower in a very distracted manner...and soon as he started to ask him questions Marty started honking the horn like crazy and Rust had to run back to the car. I wondered then if he was going to "miss" something due to that.


----------



## chowlover2

Decophile said:


> Yes, exactly.  They have to tie the daughter and the way she laid out the dolls to what's been happening with the missing children, especially since they all involve five males descending on one downed female.  Just too much material to cover, and I'm afraid not enough time to develop it unless things devolve into a hoaky mess.  Hope they pull it off.


I read a lot of forums, and one wacky theory had Marty's ex-wife Maggie as the Yellow King! I don't see that happening, but I somehow do think a woman may be involved in luring the kids. Who knows? I just can't see kids going with the lawnmower man willingly, he's creepy.


----------



## terps08

gracekelly said:


> I think I need to re-watch this with a magnifying glass as I did not think he was that scarred, though he seems pretty sinister with his last comment.
> 
> The only thing that would really shock me if if Maggie knew all about this.  Or worse, was part of it.  She looked like she made a prosperous 2nd marriage.
> 
> I think Marty and Rust have decided to do whatever  it takes to find the truth.  I had the feeling that Marty senses that his daughter is linked to this.




I agree he didn't look that scarred.  Maybe he was the one that did the dirty work and lured/kidnapped the kids to the influential people?  

If Maggie knew, I would be completely shocked too - I don't think she was involved, but maybe the family she married into?  I think you're onto something that their daughter was/is linked to this.

The scene with the pictures and the video made my stomach turn, even though they didn't show any gore.


----------



## chowlover2

terps08 said:


> I agree he didn't look that scarred.  Maybe he was the one that did the dirty work and lured/kidnapped the kids to the influential people?
> 
> If Maggie knew, I would be completely shocked too - I don't think she was involved, but maybe the family she married into?  I think you're onto something that their daughter was/is linked to this.
> 
> The scene with the pictures and the video made my stomach turn, even though they didn't show any gore.


I think lawnmower man does the dirty work of getting the kids now that his 2 cohorts were killed. The big deals involved would be the Tuttles and the Childress family. I still can see a woman fitting in somewhere, just don't know who...


----------



## lucywife

Decophile said:


> Yes, she was also wearing a whopper of a wedding ring.


Thanks. I need to watch again, missed so many details


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> Yes, she was also wearing a whopper of a wedding ring.



This has me thinking that she hooked up with someone in the "inner circle."  Ready for a big shock from her.  

I was thinking that Audrey was not acting that messed up as a teen that she would need medication.  Wondering if this was forced on her to keep her quiet.  She could have become bi-polar as she left her teens, but I don't think so. I wonder if we will ever see the girls again?

So here is some guy who is an illegitimate offspring of Rev Sam Tuttle.  He does simple work mowing for the schools and cemeteries etc.   Makes you wonder what kind of hold he has on these people.  Is he the high priest of their rites?  Strange choice except that he seems to lead an under the radar life so he could get away with a lot.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> This has me thinking that she hooked up with someone in the "inner circle."  Ready for a big shock from her.
> 
> I was thinking that Audrey was not acting that messed up as a teen that she would need medication.  Wondering if this was forced on her to keep her quiet.  She could have become bi-polar as she left her teens, but I don't think so. I wonder if we will ever see the girls again?
> 
> So here is some guy who is an illegitimate offspring of Rev Sam Tuttle.  He does simple work mowing for the schools and cemeteries etc.   Makes you wonder what kind of hold he has on these people.  Is he the high priest of their rites?  Strange choice except that he seems to lead an under the radar life so he could get away with a lot.


I think Maggie might have hooked up with a big deal as well. I didn't catch her new married name, will have to rewatch.


I also agree with you about Audrey. A wild teenager yes, not so sure that she would need medication. I do think they will resolve what happened in her childhood ( at least I hope they do ) 


Maybe it does have to do with Maggie, I just rewatched the first 3 episodes, and Marty makes a comment that you sometimes can't see what is right under your nose. Between work, drinking and whoring around he didn't seem to spend a lot of time at home.


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> Maybe it does have to do with Maggie, I just rewatched the first 3 episodes, and Marty makes a comment that you sometimes can't see what is right under your nose.* Between work, drinking and whoring around he didn't seem to spend a lot of time at home*.




Yup. That kind of cuts into your home life.


----------



## chowlover2

I rewatched the series the last 2 nights. What I found on 2nd viewing were a few things I missed the first time around. First when Marty went to call the girls into dinner I heard one of the girls say " Your Mommy and Daddy are dead " to the Barbie dolls. That leads me to believe that Audrey and maybe Maggie are involved in all this. 


Second, the snuff tape. 8 people involved. 2 men holding the little girl down, one person filming and the five people wearing masks. The person on the extreme left looks much smaller than the others, is it Audrey? Maggie?  Their hands are behind their back so I can't tell if it is a man or woman. 


Sunday night is going to be epic!


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> I rewatched the series the last 2 nights. What I found on 2nd viewing were a few things I missed the first time around. First when Marty went to call the girls into dinner I heard one of the girls say " Your Mommy and Daddy are dead " to the Barbie dolls. That leads me to believe that Audrey and maybe Maggie are involved in all this.
> 
> 
> Second, the snuff tape. 8 people involved. 2 men holding the little girl down, one person filming and the five people wearing masks. The person on the extreme left looks much smaller than the others, is it Audrey? Maggie?  Their hands are behind their back so I can't tell if it is a man or woman.
> 
> 
> Sunday night is going to be epic!



Last night I rewatched the first two episodes and used the closed captioning.  I was watching the first epi very carefully because NP said everything was in the first one.  What I totally missed the first time was the picture at the home of Dora Lange's mother.  They show Rust looking at it twice.  There are 5 men in funny headgear on horseback and behind a little blond girl.  So that makes me think that Dora was in this for a very long time.  I also got a closer look at the Barbie doll scene with the 5 men and the naked Barbie.  That would lead me think that both girls are involved.  When were they exposed to this and where?  At the grandfather's house?  How much does Maggie know.  More than we think I'll wager.

When they go to the whorehouse ranch, they read Dora's diary and she refers to the Yellow King.  Rust or Marty says that that perhaps she was being given drugs for a long time and that is why the diary is so loopy.  I would think that they were drugging her in preparation for the murder that they had planned.  

I am also wondering about Marie Fontenot's uncle.  At first I thought he had ALS, but his sister says she was told it was a series of strokes.  I am pretty suspicious of that and think that he was given some drugs that caused his condition.  They wanted to shut him up about her abduction.  We already know that Marie was the girl in the snuff film.

There is something about all of this that is a mix of Santeria, Voodoo and primitive crop fertility rites.    It is reminding me of the the movie The Straw Man.  Stephen King has written things like this too where a blood sacrifice is needed to insure the harvest.  Rust mentions how in the rural areas, the Mardi Gras celebrations are taken a step further and he produces picture to show this and the men are wearing the headgear seen in the Dora Lange picture.


----------



## Deco

Apparently much of the horror themes (like the King in Yellow and Carcosa) were taken from a horror book published in 1895.  That's right, not 1985, but 1895.  It was written by Robert Chambers, who was the granddaddy of this genre of fantasy horror books and inspired some laters, most notably HP Lovecraft in the Cthulhu Mythos series.  Because of this show alone, Chambers' 100+ year old book recently made it to the top 10 bestseller list on Amazon!


----------



## gemini582

^I'm not surprised the book is so popular. I went to get a copy from my library and the one copy they had was checked out and had a bunch of holds on it. I guess the show really parallels the book.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> Apparently much of the horror themes (like the King in Yellow and Carcosa) were taken from a horror book published in 1895.  That's right, not 1985, but 1895.  It was written by Robert Chambers, who was the granddaddy of this genre of fantasy horror books and inspired some laters, most notably HP Lovecraft in the Cthulhu Mythos series.  Because of this show alone, Chambers' 100+ year old book recently made it to the top 10 bestseller list on Amazon!



Took a look at all of that and now I need an Advil.  

NP was a academic prior to this so I hope he is not just giving us a ride on the esoterica wagon.


----------



## Deco

gemini582 said:


> ^I'm not surprised the book is so popular. I went to get a copy from my library and the one copy they had was checked out and had a bunch of holds on it. I guess the show really parallels the book.


 I'm not sure that it parallels it so much as it employs some of the fantasy horror themes.  I think the original book is a series of about 10 short stories/vignettes where the King in Yellow appears in all, or something like that.  But I don't think it relates to devil worshipping human sacrifice or child abuse.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> Took a look at all of that and now I need an Advil.
> 
> NP was a academic prior to this so I hope he is not just giving us a ride on the esoterica wagon.


 I hope not as well.  I think much of Rust's nihilistic ramblings have been taken from another writer's books (now I can't remember his name).  though I admit Rust sounds al aweful lot like me .  What movies and books so frequently get wrong is that they paint people who espouse Rust's views as broken, sad, downers.  That's just false stereotype.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> I hope not as well.  I think much of Rust's nihilistic ramblings have been taken from another writer's books (now I can't remember his name).  though I admit Rust sounds al aweful lot like me .  What movies and books so frequently get wrong is that they paint people who espouse Rust's views as broken, sad, downers.  That's just false stereotype.



I think he has accepted who he is and is good with it.  We just don't necessarily get it . lol!

So funny to me is that when you see the remarks by NP at the end of the show, you ask yourself where all of this came from.  His imagination does seem to be able to deal with the minutest details,  Good thing he is the show runner because if would not be half as good with someone else.


----------



## chowlover2

As of last week you could download the book free online. Amazon maybe? I did, but haven't read it. There was also an interview with Nick Pizzolato, the writer of the series and something like this happened in  1995. He said if you Googled Louisiana, rituals and satan you would find it. Obviously much dramatic license is taken, but it is based on a true story.


----------



## gemini582

Decophile said:


> I'm not sure that it parallels it so much as it employs some of the fantasy horror themes.  I think the original book is a series of about 10 short stories/vignettes where the King in Yellow appears in all, or something like that.  But I don't think it relates to devil worshipping human sacrifice or child abuse.




No it's not about child abuse but a lot of the elements are lifted directly from the stories - men in masks, spirals, a story that drives people insane. Even some of what Ledoux says comes directly from the book.


----------



## Deco

gemini582 said:


> No it's not about child abuse but a lot of the elements are lifted directly from the stories - men in masks, spirals, a story that drives people insane. Even some of what Ledoux says comes directly from the book.


 Ah, I see.  did not realize there were these other links as well.

Regarding the scar face, they said his dad (Tuttle?) did that to him.  I wonder why.


----------



## gracekelly

Found something interesting at another site.  There is a screen shot of a wall at Marty's house with a child's drawing.  A spiral.  These kids, or at least Audrey, the artist has seen more than we think.  

Yes, Marty, it was right there in front of you the whole time.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> Found something interesting at another site.  There is a screen shot of a wall at Marty's house with a child's drawing.  A spiral.  These kids, or at least Audrey, the artist has seen more than we think.
> 
> Yes, Marty, it was right there in front of you the whole time.


 Funny thing is that when Marty said that, he didn't even know the extent of what he was talking about since Rust hadn't taken him to the storage yet, and whatever is to be revealed in the finale had not yet occured..


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> Funny thing is that when Marty said that, he didn't even know the extent of what he was talking about since Rust hadn't taken him to the storage yet, and whatever is to be revealed in the finale had not yet occured..



Yes. I think he was referring to his wife's unhappiness and the fact that his children thought he was worthless.  They really shoot a look of disgust at him when they get up and leave him eating the spaghetti.  *is that all Maggie can cook?  She made that for the dinner in epi#1 when Rust came to dinner*

Wait!!!  Light bulb!!!  The little girl told the cops that the spaghetti monster was chasing her.  Maggie making all that spaghetti


----------



## TinksDelite

The King in Yellow (and some others) are indeed free to download:

http://www.amazon.com/King-Yellow-R...id=1394067211&sr=8-1&keywords=Robert+Chambers



gemini582 said:


> ^I'm not surprised the book is so popular. I went to get a copy from my library and the one copy they had was checked out and had a bunch of holds on it. I guess the show really parallels the book.


 


chowlover2 said:


> As of last week you could download the book free online. Amazon maybe? I did, but haven't read it. There was also an interview with Nick Pizzolato, the writer of the series and something like this happened in  1995. He said if you Googled Louisiana, rituals and satan you would find it. Obviously much dramatic license is taken, but it is based on a true story.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> Yes. I think he was referring to his wife's unhappiness and the fact that his children thought he was worthless.  They really shoot a look of disgust at him when they get up and leave him eating the spaghetti.  *is that all Maggie can cook?  She made that for the dinner in epi#1 when Rust came to dinner*
> 
> Wait!!!  Light bulb!!!  The little girl told the cops that the spaghetti monster was chasing her.  Maggie making all that spaghetti



Ok, this was brilliant.  You're right that spaghetti is all we've seen her make.  And  connecting it to the spaghetti monster is just beyond!  Brava!


----------



## gracekelly

Maggie made etouffee when Rust mowed the lawn.  Etouffe employs a cooking method known as smothering.  Are they dropping more hints??  The French verb is etouffer,   which translates to: extinguish ; put out ; suffocate ; asphyxiate ; restrain ; moderate ; stew ; suppress ; oppress ; truss up ; gag ; mute   

Please stop me.


----------



## chowlover2

You find some really creepy stuff on other TD forums. Someone posted a pic of symbols that child fetishes post by their ads. The one for men seeking children is a spiral that is eerily similar to the one found on Dora Lange. 

The second odd thing I found us that hart is an old time word meaning stag. Shakespeare used the word frequently in Twelfth Night.  

Third thing I heard is that there hasn't been an announcement about season 2 because HBO is desperately trying to get Woody and Marty back in the lead roles. Of course this could be a way to throw everyone off what is going down in the finale. I guess only time will tell. I did see an interview where Matthew said it was a one time only role.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> Maggie made etouffee when Rust mowed the lawn.  Etouffe employs a cooking method known as smothering.  Are they dropping more hints??  The French verb is etouffer,   which translates to: extinguish ; put out ; suffocate ; asphyxiate ; restrain ; moderate ; stew ; suppress ; oppress ; truss up ; gag ; mute
> 
> Please stop me.


 Please continue!


----------



## Deco

chowlover2 said:


> You find some really creepy stuff on other TD forums. Someone posted a pic of symbols that child fetishes post by their ads. The one for men seeking children is a spiral that is eerily similar to the one found on Dora Lange.
> 
> The second odd thing I found us that hart is an old time word meaning stag. Shakespeare used the word frequently in Twelfth Night.
> 
> Third thing I heard is that there hasn't been an announcement about season 2 because HBO is desperately trying to get Woody and Marty back in the lead roles. Of course this could be a way to throw everyone off what is going down in the finale. I guess only time will tell. I did see an interview where Matthew said it was a one time only role.


 Very interesting.

I can imagine HBO's panic in trying to sign up Woody and Matt again.  TD has turned out to be one of the most obsessively followed and critically acclaimed tv shows ever.  It's a potential cash cow.  I just don't see how they can craft a story line around them coming back because the life arc drawn for these two seems to be headed towards tragedy.  I thought it was also headed towards death, but if HBO is trying to re-sign them, then that reveals that neither will die in the finale. 

Unless of course they've coming back as completely different characters in a different story line.


----------



## gracekelly

After the Advil kicked in and I could absorb all the weirdness that I have been reading on other sites regarding Carcosa and the Chamber's book The King in Yellow  this is one of my conclusions.   The book is about a play is supposed to induce insanity.  NP, mission accomplished!  I think that has finally kicked in on this thread.

NP said that amongst many things, the story is about what men do to women and children.  That would appear to be true.  The crux of things is the Tuttle family.  They seem to be related to everyone courtesy of decades of intermarriage and the Rev. Sam's penchant for extramarital sexual one time encounters.  Hence the branches of a large tree that Rust is talking about.  The family has been practicing their rituals at a place called Carcosa.    I think that the ending is as simple as that.  No great mysteries.  We have seen the five men in masks several times now and I am guessing that most of the bad guys, now dead, and the Tuttles are in the more modern pictures.  The older pictures are probably all Tuttles too.  They groom their victims from childhood for the their eventual death.  Hence the picture of Dora with the men in the masks.  

The only mystery to me is the involvement of Maggie's family and i think that is where the only shocker of the story will reside.  Maggie's maiden name has never been mentioned and we don't even know her father's name despite his pointed presence.   Audrey ruined things as far as being a victim, when she lost her virginity.  She also espoused the Goth look and no longer had blond hair which most if not all the victims had.  Did she do this to avoid the sacrificial death? So fellow tPFers, we will wait until Sunday and hope that we are not let down i.e this is all a dream that Rust had after drinking too many beers.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> So fellow tPFers, we will wait until Sunday and hope that we are not let down i.e *this is all a dream that Rust had after drinking too many beers*.


 You are on a roll


----------



## lucywife

gracekelly said:


> Maggie made etouffee when Rust mowed the lawn.  Etouffe employs a cooking method known as smothering.  Are they dropping more hints??  The French verb is etouffer,   which translates to: extinguish ; put out ; suffocate ; asphyxiate ; restrain ; moderate ; stew ; suppress ; oppress ; truss up ; gag ; mute
> 
> Please stop me.


 wow



> Audrey ruined things as far as being a victim, when she lost her virginity.


 don't understand this one, one of the sacrificial victims was a hooker, wasn't she?
If Maggie is one of the Tuttles clan, maybe she supposed to bring her firstborn to the ritual and that scared Audrey for life?


----------



## Deco

I'm glad NP shares our views on what makes a hoaky twist and what makes a good one.  I never thought Marty or Rust were the killer but a lesser writer wouldn't have resisted delivering exactly such an obvious and eye-roll-inducing twist.  NP articulated this well in an interview:

"The possibility [that Rust is the killer] is built into the story, as it has to be credible that the 2012 PD suspect Cohle. I just thought that such a revelation would be terrible, obvious writing. For me, the worst writing generally just flips things: this persons really a traitor; *it was all a dream*; etc. Nothing is so ruinous as a forced twist, I think."

Yes, *gracekelly*, you can rest assured that NP won't pull the "it was all a dream" stunt


----------



## littlerock

Enjoying reading everyone's theories! I cannot wait for Sunday! I don't have anything to add because I pretty much fall in line with everyone else here on what they think is happening.. and I have absolutely no real idea of what IS happening or how it will end.

I re-watched some eps recently and I will say, this was probably one of the best lines ever written and spoken on a TV show. I am in awe of the show's writing:



> * &#8220;I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself. We are creatures that should not exist by natural law&#8230;We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self, a secretion of sensory, experience, and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody.&#8221; *


----------



## gemini582

TinksDelite said:


> The King in Yellow (and some others) are indeed free to download:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/King-Yellow-R...id=1394067211&sr=8-1&keywords=Robert+Chambers



Thanks!


----------



## littlerock

For those who say the lawnmower man's face wasn't scarred enough to be the killer.. I disagree. He looked pretty scarred, IMO. Maybe not like freddy krueger, but a realistically scarred.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/true-dectective-finale-season-1-nic-pizzolatto


> Let&#8217;s begin with the ending of Episode 7, when we see Errol, who is, or had better be, the Spaghetti Monster. How did you build to that moment, and why did you decide to end the episode on that note?
> 
> Nic Pizzolatto: Going into the final episode, I wanted to end any audience theorizing that Cohle or Hart was the killer, and also provide a concrete face to the abstract evil they&#8217;re chasing. So, wild speculations aside, we showed the killer&#8217;s face in Episode 1. Though we know that as this &#8220;third man,&#8221; whose face was scarred by his father, Errol is himself a revenant of great historical evil. There&#8217;s enough fragmentary history in Episode 7 that, like Hemingway&#8217;s iceberg, what is obscured can be discerned by what is visible. We have further context and dimension to explore with the killer, but the true questions now are whether Cohle and Hart succeed, what they will find, and whether they&#8217;ll make it out alive.


----------



## Charles

I think if Maggie/Audrey is involved, it's not in a victim role.  I think Maggie/Audrey would be part of the family doing all of this and have been exposed in some manner.  Perhaps Audrey only witnessed the victimization of these girls.  I doubt she was a victim or they plan on her using as a victim.


----------



## gracekelly

Based on Audrey's drawing of naked men and women, one has to conclude that she saw some sexual activity between them, someplace.  So either she is being groomed to be a participant and/or a victim.  I do think that something happened to her at some point in time and that explains her later behavior as a teen when she is "acting out."  I suspect that she was in the drugged dream like/trance state that the young male transvestite prostitute is describing.

I rewatched the first three episodes and used the pause button on Audrey's drawings.  They were very explicit.  They were not a product of her imagination.


----------



## littlerock

Either way, shes a victim! A young girl being groomed to be a participant would = victim. Wouldn't you agree Charles? How do you explain her drawings if she is not a victim? 

Just coincidence? They could explain it as she saw her Dad's case files I guess..


----------



## gracekelly

littlerock said:


> Either way, shes a victim! A young girl being groomed to be a participant would = victim. Wouldn't you agree Charles? How do you explain her drawings if she is not a victim?
> 
> Just coincidence? They could explain it as she saw her Dad's case files I guess..



I don't think she saw it in case files.  I think she was there from the time she was very young.  I just have a hard time believing that her mother was clueless.  Even her comment to her when she and Marty bring  up the drawings for discussion and she says "you are taking something beautiful and making it ugly" can be construed in different ways.  Either it is the straightforward  comment of a stunned mother, or Maggie actually believes that the ceremony where this took place was a beautiful thing.  Gives me the creeps in general!


----------



## littlerock

^ Oh, I agree! I'm just trying to understand, in what parallel universe is Audrey not a victim after creating those drawings and that scene on the floor. The only thing I could come up with is she saw files. I don't actually believe it. 

Interesting about that comment. I didn't remember it..


----------



## chowlover2

I think we are all in Carcosa now!

The lawnmowerman is definitely the spaghetti monster. He put headphones on in the last episode ( to protect his hearing ) if a child were to see him no doubt they would think he had green ears. 

Perhaps Audrey was visiting the grandparents, snuck out in the woods and saw the ritual with the 5 men? I still think a woman may be involved. In the video the person on the left is much smaller, but their hands are behind their back, so I can't tell if it is a man or a woman. 

I do think they drug the kids with Ketamine, a drug that let's you see what is going on, but your body can't move ( thanks Criminal Minds! ) they have yet to find a child's body, so no drug tests to be found. Meth and LSD would make a child too unpredictable. Maybe they use the women Dora Lange, etc ) to lure the children? Then kill them when they are done with them...


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> I think we are all in Carcosa now!
> 
> The lawnmowerman is definitely the spaghetti monster. He put headphones on in the last episode ( to protect his hearing ) if a child were to see him no doubt they would think he had green ears.
> 
> Perhaps Audrey was visiting the grandparents, snuck out in the woods and saw the ritual with the 5 men? I still think a woman may be involved. In the video the person on the left is much smaller, but their hands are behind their back, so I can't tell if it is a man or a woman.
> 
> I do think they drug the kids with Ketamine, a drug that let's you see what is going on, but your body can't move ( thanks Criminal Minds! ) they have yet to find a child's body, so no drug tests to be found. Meth and LSD would make a child too unpredictable. Maybe they use the women Dora Lange, etc ) to lure the children? Then kill them when they are done with them...



Maggie is a nurse!! Access to meds.   Ketamine is used in pediatric anesthesia and for short term anesthesia in adults.  Oh brother!


----------



## Charles

littlerock said:


> Either way, shes a victim! A young girl being groomed to be a participant would = victim. Wouldn't you agree Charles? How do you explain her drawings if she is not a victim?



I meant "victim" as in kidnapped and ritually killed.  Sheesh!!


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> Maggie is a nurse!! Access to meds.   Ketamine is used in pediatric anesthesia and for short term anesthesia in adults.  Oh brother!




I didn't know that!


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> I didn't know that!



I remembered a scene where Marty goes to the hospital and makes a scene and verified her job as a nurse by going to HBO.  Yup!  

Well, this certainly makes things more interesting, not that they were dull!

There is nothing on this show that is not put there for a reason.   I think that even Marty's fly fishing that is mentioned in episode #1 has meaning later on when they get the sheriff in the last episode.

Sad to say that I have the bad feeling that Marty and Rust may not survive.  I think they realize this too.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> I remembered a scene where Marty goes to the hospital and makes a scene and verified her job as a nurse by going to HBO.  Yup!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this certainly makes things more interesting, not that they were dull!
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing on this show that is not put there for a reason.   I think that even Marty's fly fishing that is mentioned in episode #1 has meaning later on when they get the sheriff in the last episode.
> 
> 
> 
> Sad to say that I have the bad feeling that Marty and Rust may not survive.  I think they realize this too.




Yes, I think that may be why Marty went to Maggie in the last episode, to make his peace with her before he dies. Rust is ready to " tie it off " , so he is good to go. 

I thought it odd that Maggie went to visit a Rust in the bar. It supposedly is in the middle of nowhere. Like maybe she was trying to find out what he knows?


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> I don't think she saw it in case files.  I think she was there from the time she was very young.  I just have a hard time believing that her mother was clueless.  Even her comment to her when she and Marty bring  up the drawings for discussion and she says "you are taking something beautiful and making it ugly" can be construed in different ways.  Either it is the straightforward  comment of a stunned mother, or Maggie actually believes that the ceremony where this took place was a beautiful thing.  Gives me the creeps in general!


 that would be creepy indeed.

Maggie also said something else that gave me a "huh" moment when I first heard it.  It was when Marty asked how the hell could Audrey know such things at this young age and Maggie said something to the effect of "because girls have to."  It was such a strange thing to say.  If she generally meant that girls learn these things earlier than boys because they have to be on-guard to defend/protect themselves (therefore having to learn it faster it), then that's one thing.  But that still didn't explain why Audrey should know these things at her tender age.  It's not like she was 11 at the time.  Regardless of whether girls have to grow up faster, I can't imagine being satisfied that my little 7 year old knows the graphics of sex "because she has to."  I'd still want to know the how and why.  That would be a monster red flag, but Maggie didn't respond with the requisite horror/worry.


----------



## littlerock

Charles said:


> I meant "victim" as in kidnapped and ritually killed.  Sheesh!!



Haha! Don't sheesh me, Charles 

It wasn't clear, I thought you meant victim in general.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> that would be creepy indeed.
> 
> Maggie also said something else that gave me a "huh" moment when I first heard it.  It was when Marty asked how the hell could Audrey know such things at this young age and Maggie said something to the effect of "because girls have to."  It was such a strange thing to say.  If she generally meant that girls learn these things earlier than boys because they have to be on-guard to defend/protect themselves (therefore having to learn it faster it), then that's one thing.  But that still didn't explain why Audrey should know these things at her tender age.  It's not like she was 11 at the time.  Regardless of whether girls have to grow up faster, I can't imagine being satisfied that my little 7 year old knows the graphics of sex "because she has to."  I'd still want to know the how and why.  That would be a monster red flag, but Maggie didn't respond with the requisite horror/worry.



Totally agree.  Little kids may know that mommy and daddy "do" things, but those pix were really graphic as far as the male figures were concerned.  Kids that age would have to see it if they are going to draw it.  I remember Maggie's comment, but did not pick up on what you are referencing i.e. "because girls *have to*"  There is a huge difference between casually knowing and *having* to know,

Maggie is becoming more sinister to me. Does anyone else feel this?  I think it started when she used Rust as a way to get back at Marty. In retrospect, the feeling should have evidenced earlier.


----------



## littlerock

gracekelly said:


> Totally agree.  Little kids may know that mommy and daddy "do" things, but those pix were really graphic as far as the male figures were concerned.  Kids that age would have to see it if they are going to draw it.



Not only that, but one of Audrey's sex drawings has a guy wearing a mask.


----------



## littlerock

gracekelly said:


> Maggie is becoming more sinister to me. Does anyone else feel this?  I think it started when she used Rust as a way to get back at Marty. In retrospect, the feeling should have evidenced earlier.




Yes, absolutely!


----------



## gracekelly

There is one aspect of this that totally jumps the shark for me...how could little girls be exposed to this and never spill the beans to their dad?


----------



## Aimee3

Did the girls attend one of those religious Tuttle schools?  I can't recall whether their school was mentioned as being one.


----------



## TinksDelite

Oh my!! So many good ideas/clues! I think I may binge this weekend & rewatch the entire series again!


----------



## sthrncin

TinksDelite said:


> Oh my!! So many good ideas/clues! I think I may binge this weekend & rewatch the entire series again!




I'm doing that tonight on hbo go!!


----------



## chowlover2

I believe the fellow who owns the bar where Rust works is the same guy he interviewed back in the first episodes who had the missing boy. The one whose wife said their son was calling from underneath the water. Who they assumed got eaten by a gator because only a piece of him showed up.


----------



## GCGDanielle

^ I thought so too.  And I think I saw him in the preview to the last episode also.  He was holding a gun, presumably helping Rust.


----------



## sthrncin

I have this dragonfly charm hanging in my car and happened to notice the small charms hanging from it yesterday, also one of the markings on the dragonfly body. Look familiar? Lol
	

		
			
		

		
	



Funny thing, I would have never noticed the shape before this show!


----------



## Deco

GCGDanielle said:


> ^ I thought so too.  And I think I saw him in the preview to the last episode also.  He was holding a gun, presumably helping Rust.


 Yes, it looked like he was taking aim at that crooked sheriff, with Rust's encouragement.   I think he was taking revenge more so than helping Rust. 

Though he didn't look anything like the other dad who lost his son to the gator.  I don't think there is a shortage of dads in that area who lost a child.


----------



## Charles

Actually, I think the owner of the bar IS Rust who's really Marty, who's really that mom who killed her babies who's actually the prostitute who gave Rust the 'ludes.  See...it's a big circle.  Everything has happened before and will happen again.


----------



## lucywife

Charles said:


> Actually, I think the owner of the bar IS Rust who's really Marty, who's really that mom who killed her babies who's actually the prostitute who gave Rust the 'ludes.  See...it's a big circle.  Everything has happened before and will happen again.


 huh?


----------



## gracekelly

Charles said:


> Actually, I think the owner of the bar IS Rust who's really Marty, who's really that mom who killed her babies who's actually the prostitute who gave Rust the 'ludes.  See...it's a big circle.  Everything has happened before and will happen again.



Point taken Charles.  Yes the world is a flat circle and everything keeps coming around.

There are lots of theories out there.

On of my favorites is that Rust has been undercover from day one.  He came from Texas as an undercover cop to find out who knows what exactly.  I find this unlikely.  

Another, which is pretty sad, if true,  is that Rust hit his daughter when she was on the tricycle.  I actually think this could be true and it occurred to me during the first episode when he was reluctant to have dinner at Marty's house.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> Point taken Charles.  Yes the world is a flat circle and everything keeps coming around.
> 
> 
> 
> There are lots of theories out there.
> 
> 
> 
> On of my favorites is that Rust has been undercover from day one.  He came from Texas as an undercover cop to find out who knows what exactly.  I find this unlikely.
> 
> 
> 
> Another, which is pretty sad, if true,  is that Rust hit his daughter when she was on the tricycle.  I actually think this could be true and it occurred to me during the first episode when he was reluctant to have dinner at Marty's house.




I think the idea that a Rust is undercover FBI is far fetched as well. I do think he may be the one who hit his child on the tricycle and that was why his wife left him. 

Is anyone here familiar with the area? I read that Errol gave the 2cops the wrong directions to get back home, that's why he gave that little laugh at the end. No idea if that is true or not. I do think that was a Coast Guard cutter on the river, and with the police leaving the cemetery it showed there is police presence on all sides, but still the evil flourishes.


----------



## amrx87

This show is more addictive than crack!!!!! Im sad but excited for the finale this wknd


----------



## lucywife

I can't wait for the last episode! This is the most addictive show ever.


----------



## chowlover2

I'm excited and sad to see it's over. I'm stocking up on Xanax as we speak! LOL!


----------



## hollywoodbadgrl

chowlover2 said:


> I'm excited and sad to see it's over. I'm stocking up on Xanax as we speak! LOL!



Same here


----------



## Brandless

Looking forward to the finale. Wouldn't it be dreamy if they cast Ryan Gosling for next season?


----------



## Brandless

chowlover2 said:


> I think the idea that a Rust is undercover FBI is far fetched as well. I do think he may be the one who hit his child on the tricycle and that was why his wife left him.
> 
> Is anyone here familiar with the area? I read that Errol gave the 2cops the wrong directions to get back home, that's why he gave that little laugh at the end. No idea if that is true or not. I do think that was a Coast Guard cutter on the river, and with the police leaving the cemetery it showed there is police presence on all sides, but still the evil flourishes.




I thought that was the boat where Marty and Rust were. I have to watch everything from the beginning after the finale. I missed a lot of clues.


----------



## chowlover2

Brandless said:


> I thought that was the boat where Marty and Rust were. I have to watch everything from the beginning after the finale. I missed a lot of clues.


Or it may be a boat going out to search for the sheriff! The possibilities are endless. 


What I found interesting from another website, is that most of the characters are in the school picture in the first episodes. Dora Lange, her friend with the stars on her neck, the marshland Madea and the girl who was killed in a similar fashion to Dora. There are also 2 men who I think may be Reggie LeDoux and  Errol, the lawnmower man in the back row.


----------



## sthrncin

I just finished re watching all the episodes. Wow it's easy to miss little things. Can't believe how many "new" things I saw! So ready for tomorrow nights finale!


----------



## chowlover2

I' thinking Maggie is involved in some way. In the first episode after they discovered Dora's body, he slept in an armchair. She came in and asked why, because of the murder in Erath? He was having a press conference that afternoon, so nothing had been on the news yet. 

Second odd thing was after Audrey drew the dirty pictures. Marty asked why and she said because girls have to. Which is really odd, Audrey was what, 8 or 9 yrs old? And this was '95. I could understand it more today, but they were in a hick town.  

Then we have Audrey who definitely shows signs of sexual abuse. Perhaps she saw something in the woods when visiting her grandparents, or saw a videotape the grandparents had. When I was watching the tape of the Fontenal girl one of the masked figures on the far left was small in size, could it be a woman? It would make sense, a young child would go much more readily with a woman than Errol. 

Also Maggie coming to check up on Rust in the bar, no need for that, am thinking she was trying to find out what he knows. 

Can't wait til tomorrow night, I'm definitely in Carcosa now...


----------



## lurkernomore

I was on vacation, but am finally caught up on TD. I binge watched the last two episodes and got caught up on the interviews and this thread. Now I just need to watch tonight! This is one of the most intriguing shows I have watched in a long time - it has everything going for it - good acting, good directing, and the perfect combination of surprise and confusion.


----------



## chowlover2

Here's hoping the finale lives up to the rest of the season!


100 Xanax
Case of Lone Star
Diehard Battery and Jumper Cables
One way ticket to Insane Asylum


Check to all of the above and I'm ready to go!


----------



## Deco

chowlover2 said:


> here's hoping the finale lives up to the rest of the season!
> 
> 
> 100 xanax
> case of lone star
> diehard battery and jumper cables
> one way ticket to insane asylum
> 
> 
> check to all of the above and i'm ready to go!


 +1

nope, didn't live up IMO


----------



## *schmoo*

I thought both would die which would explain why they wouldn't be around for the next season. The last 10 minutes or so was a bit of an anticlimax


----------



## Brandless

I was a bit disappointed with the final episode as far as the revelation was concerned. I felt some questions were left unanswered. But the acting didn't disappoint. The final scene was touching.


----------



## chowlover2

Decophile said:


> +1
> 
> nope, didn't live up IMO



I enjoyed it, but not at all what I expected. It kept me on the edge of my seat though, I was expecting both of them to die.


----------



## gemini582

I was underwhelmed. I didn't expect a nice, tidy ending but I thought we would get more answers.


----------



## lucywife

Well, I'm glad both of them survived, I didn't think it was humanly possible with they wounds they've got, but that's a movie, need to remember that.
Not all the "worshippers" are captured and Maggie didn't look too happy in the hospital(or I am imagining things), so hopefully, there is a logical continuation to the story, the house and the creep with his girlfriend were beyond ghastly, I'm going to have nightmares about that place.


----------



## Deco

The acting was excellent as always, and yes, I'm very glad they both survived, and seem to have forged a deeper bond that might help them get through their days, have someone they care about in their lives.

Where I thought the ending fell apart was how it all boiled down to this one villain, and I just didn't buy it.  He didn't seem like any kind of formidable opponent, and yet he managed to almost kill both Marty and Rust.  It was a showdown with someone I didn't believe could have been all that.  Too much was made of his lair that went on and on, and the whole time I was thinking that Rust was not acting alert enough.  It was a ridiculous trap set by an intellectual inferior, and Rust just walked straight into it and was caught unaware.  That was unsatisfying.

The multiple head-butts were extremely satisfying.  That Rust finally felt light and love was satisfying.  But as far as the whodunit is concerned, it was a flat and one-dimensional resolution to what was a muti-faceted, complex puzzle all season long.

And I have no idea what that swirling cosmic cloud was all about.


----------



## sthrncin

Great finale, but wth was that swirling thing in there? Looked like a cosmic storm or something.


----------



## gracekelly

Well, at least it wasn't the dream sequence in the shower and it was still better than the finale for Lost.

Too many loose ends and unanswered questions.  Audrey for one.  The fan base will be all over NP's po'boy a*s.  It wsa mean of him to just leave us dangling this way!


----------



## Brandless

Yeah, what was that rumbling swirling thing Rust saw? I am watching it again as of this moment and I'm getting annoyed that there are questions left unanswered. What's with all the ramblings of Childress? Did they mean anything or he's just crazy? Like asking Rust to take off the mask, etc. And what about the corpse in the back house? With all the conjectures made, the finale was a letdown.


----------



## Deco

I can see them towing the line between the swirling cosmic cloud being one of Rust's hallucinations, and actually being a vision of something supernatural happening there.  Without knowing which, it was pointless.


----------



## lucywife

About the trap, I think, Rust went there because he had no self-preservation instinct, he was obsessed and his obsession almost killed both of them. I don't know if he accidentally killed his daughter like some posters suggested, did he say that? I think her death broke him and that light in the darkness moment, knowing that he is loved and forgiven turns his life around (hopefully). I need to watch again with the subtitles, I can barely make up what MM is mumbling most of the times. 
Creep knew his way around the catacombs, obviously, he was also twice Rust's and Marty's size, here is the advantage. The better thing to do would be to wait for the police and get him alive, but again, it's the show.


----------



## chowlover2

Brandless said:


> Yeah, what was that rumbling swirling thing Rust saw? I am watching it again as of this moment and I'm getting annoyed that there are questions left unanswered. What's with all the ramblings of Childress? Did they mean anything or he's just crazy? Like asking Rust to take off the mask, etc. And what about the corpse in the back house? With all the conjectures made, the finale was a letdown.


I am thinking the rumbling swirling thing was Rust at death's door. He was almost there but they wouldn't let him in-LOL!


The more I think about the finale, the more I like it. I know a lot was made of it being anti-women, but I never took it that way. It was really a buddy story. Both Rust and Marty were half men at best, but when together they were fully realized. 


When they were in Errol's lair, it was edge of your seat scary. Gripping writing. You don't see much blood and gore, but all the kids clothing hanging around hints at the carnage that has taken place there. 


In a way, I think it could have ended about 7 min earlier than it did. When they showed those sweeping views of the LA landscape. I was surprised when they came back to them at the hospital. I think it gives credence to the rumors that HBO would love to have the 2 of them back for a second season.


I wish we knew the story behind the daughters, something obviously went on there. A small detail and way better than the Dexter finale!


I have to watch again, I get so much more out of repeated viewings. Overall, a great season, an A- I think. The show started a lot of conversations, got me reading The King in Yellow, Nick P's Galveston and more, and there is a lot to be said for that. Probably the only TV show that has ever done that and I love Breaking Bad.


----------



## Deco

chowlover2 said:


> Both Rust and Marty were half men at best, but when together they were fully realized.


Right on



> I think it gives credence to the rumors that HBO would love to have the 2 of them back for a second season.


 yes.  Especially given how they neglected to finish this one.




> A small detail and way better than the Dexter finale!


damning with faint praise 

I still love this show.   It transported me.  The two main characters completely got under my skin, and even more in the finale.  But the end did not blow me away, and Breaking Bad's did.

Also, to be fair to Dexter (an utter comic book series compared to TD), each of its first 4 season finales knocked it out of the park.  I think it's much more challenging to wrap up a multi-season series with one finale than it is to wrap one.


----------



## gracekelly

I feel frustrated by this ending, because there is no explanation of the of the cult, their history, how it started or the true scope of it,  How did someone like Errol manage to exert such control?  He certainly did not act,look or seem like someone who could do this.  

This turned into a Bing Crosby/Bob Hope road movie.  Was Maggie Dorothy Lamour or was that Papania?


----------



## cakegirl

Wow, I watched the whole 8 episodes this weekend.  Overall it seemed the main focus of the  series was the two men and not "whodunit." I didn't mind that every single question wasn't answered- it followed the themes  of  myth and story telling in the series. I still think episode 4 was probably the best.
I really enjoyed it for the incredible acting and film making and because I'm very familiar with the locations.


----------



## TC1

gracekelly said:


> I feel frustrated by this ending, because there is no explanation of the of the cult, their history, how it started or the true scope of it, How did someone like Errol manage to exert such control? He certainly did not act,look or seem like someone who could do this.
> 
> This turned into a Bing Crosby/Bob Hope road movie. Was Maggie Dorothy Lamour or was that Papania?


 
I'm with you on this...it seemed too tidy..a lot wrapped up in 30 mins, but not a lot of questions were answered. We all on this thread seemed to dig deeper!!. Haha


----------



## gracekelly

TC1 said:


> I'm with you on this...it seemed too tidy..a lot wrapped up in 30 mins, but not a lot of questions were answered. We all on this thread seemed to dig deeper!!. Haha




We certainly all did dig deeper!  Well, we all had a good time with it anyway!


----------



## Charles

I think that's where my frustration lies.  I feel that I read a lot and theorized things in my head given what the writers put in front of me over the past 7 eps....then, nothing.  Like it was all a big tease or joke on me.


----------



## azsun

chowlover2 said:


> I think the idea that a Rust is undercover FBI is far fetched as well. I do think he may be the one who hit his child on the tricycle and that was why his wife left him.
> 
> Is anyone here familiar with the area? I read that Errol gave the 2cops the wrong directions to get back home, that's why he gave that little laugh at the end. No idea if that is true or not. I do think that was a Coast Guard cutter on the river, and with the police leaving the cemetery it showed there is police presence on all sides, but still the evil flourishes.


I live in this area.  Lafayette is a 10 minute drive from me.  Erath, Abbeville and most of the towns/parishes named are within a half hour drive.  Most of the roads are numbered, i.e.LA 382....the locals also know them by names too....i.e. Old Spanish Trail.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> I feel frustrated by this ending, because there is no explanation of the of the cult, their history, how it started or the true scope of it,  How did someone like Errol manage to exert such control?  He certainly did not act,look or seem like someone who could do this.
> 
> This turned into a Bing Crosby/Bob Hope road movie.  Was Maggie Dorothy Lamour or was that Papania?


Errol was only a part of it, as Woody said at the end, " We got our man ", the one responsible for Dora, Marie, Lake Charles and others who had gone missing. He said they didn't get them all. I took it as Errol being a splinter off the main group. The others are still out there. That's what Marty meant when he said " You can't get them all." Also echoed with the speech at the end about the sky & stars, where the light is winning. ( good over evil ) 


Brandless said:


> Yeah, what was that rumbling swirling thing Rust saw? I am watching it again as of this moment and I'm getting annoyed that there are questions left unanswered. What's with all the ramblings of Childress? Did they mean anything or he's just crazy? Like asking Rust to take off the mask, etc. And what about the corpse in the back house? With all the conjectures made, the finale was a letdown.


The rumbling thing was one of Rust's hallucinations ( saw it on another site ) Childress is just nuts, possibly a result of years of inbreeding and child abuse.


azsun said:


> I live in this area.  Lafayette is a 10 minute drive from me.  Erath, Abbeville and most of the towns/parishes named are within a half hour drive.  Most of the roads are numbered, i.e.LA 382....the locals also know them by names too....i.e. Old Spanish Trail.


Thanks!


----------



## wordpast

Uh..the finale was very anti-climatic. The best thing about it was that Rust and Marty are friends in the end. tehe. 

Overall, this was a great show, with suburb acting.


----------



## PJ86

chowlover2 said:


> Errol was only a part of it, as Woody said at the end, " We got our man ", the one responsible for Dora, Marie, Lake Charles and others who had gone missing. *He said they didn't get them all. I took it as Errol being a splinter off the main group. The others are still out there.* That's what Marty meant when he said " You can't get them all." Also echoed with the speech at the end about the sky & stars, where the light is winning. ( good over evil )
> 
> The rumbling thing was one of Rust's hallucinations ( saw it on another site ) Childress is just nuts, possibly a result of years of inbreeding and child abuse.
> 
> Thanks!



I think that is why the very ending showed all the houses/acreage in the end.  That is the feeling I got.  They got some of the killers/pedo's but not all.  

Edited:  well I was wrong here is the director discussing it:_
*What were you trying to do with that last sequence of vistas going back over all the places we&#8217;d been with Marty and Rust?*
Well, it&#8217;s the kind of problem-solving you do when you&#8217;re editing. There&#8217;s a 25-minute sequence that takes place in the hospital at the end, and it was hard to gauge time in there. It&#8217;s one scene after another took place in there. I felt like we needed some kind of break to allow the time jump from their conversation in the hospital to their final conversation outside at night. The only thing I could think of in terms of what we had was to revisit places that were important to the story itself of the characters.
*It seemed to play into the whole everything repeats/&#8220;time is a flat circle&#8221; theme.*
Well, yeah. Exactly. That&#8217;s why we chose those locations. I tried to find the setups we used that had the same camera movement, and to time it so it went from day to night. In fact, that last image of the tree over the cane stocks, that was from the first images we shot, the cane field burning. So the beginning is the end, the end is the beginning, which is nice. [Laughs.] We shot that a week or two before principal photography began. It was just me and the cinematographer Adam Arkapaw and our main first unit crew. That was actually the camera I was operating on the crane.
_

http://www.vulture.com/2014/03/true...y-fukunaga-interview.html?mid=twitter_vulture


I think the main group is dead.  Tuttle,Errol's father and the initial group, but some of the children of the abuse have continued the abuse.  Errol was a pedo and a killer.

Remember the old lady who asked "you have been to caracosa?" when they went to her house?  I wonder if she was a victim too.

Adding, I loved the ending.  I thought the final 10 were perfect.


----------



## Deco

The biggest problem I have with the finale is not that they didn't tie up all the loose ends with a nice tidy bow.  Yes, it was annoying and disappointing, but far from fatal or hoaky. What I found hoaky was that the whole Errol character just did not add up.  He's obviously a backwoods inbred psycho, living in utter filth and excrement strewn out in the open in his house.  And yet he can bang out a perfect British accent on cue, and is completely poised and self-possessed when two men with guns are after him.

But the biggest disconnect was that this filthy sewer rat of a killer manages to bust out great symmetry, elegance and a poetically constructed "scene" using Dora's body.  There was also way too much "order" and symmetry in Carcosa.  Sure, it was creepy and dark and twisted, like walking through a nightmare, but there was an _aesthetic _to it, and I don't buy for a second that Error had any sense of aesthetic.  Even if someone else built it, he'd have wrecked it over time, because he's just a pig who doesn't recognize sacred space, or the sanctity of anything.

So the great big killer who eluded our guys from episode one turns out to be a complete dork, an unwashed savage, and yet at the same time some higher evolved creature plumbing the depths of evil with a the sophisticated discernment. I just can't buy that.  I can suspend disbelief left and right, but this one was too much for me to swallow. NP didn't know how to end the story so he just threw in a lot of 11th hour hair-raising texture and blood-curdling context, but it made no sense.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> The biggest problem I have with the finale is not that they didn't tie up all the loose ends with a nice tidy bow.  Yes, it was annoying and disappointing, but far from fatal or hoaky. What I found hoaky was that the whole Errol character just did not add up.  He's obviously a backwoods inbred psycho, living in utter filth and excrement strewn out in the open in his house.  And yet he can bang out a perfect British accent on cue, and is completely poised and self-possessed when two men with guns are after him.
> 
> But the biggest disconnect was that this filthy sewer rat of a killer manages to bust out great symmetry, elegance and a poetically constructed "scene" using Dora's body.  There was also way too much "order" and symmetry in Carcosa.  Sure, it was creepy and dark and twisted, like walking through a nightmare, but there was an _aesthetic _to it, and I don't buy for a second that Error had any sense of aesthetic.  Even if someone else built it, he'd have wrecked it over time, because he's just a pig who doesn't recognize sacred space, or the sanctity of anything.
> 
> So the great big killer who eluded our guys from episode one turns out to be a complete dork, an unwashed savage, and yet at the same time some higher evolved creature plumbing the depths of evil with a the sophisticated discernment. I just can't buy that.  I can suspend disbelief left and right, but this one was too much for me to swallow. NP didn't know how to end the story so he just threw in a lot of 11th hour hair-raising texture and blood-curdling context, but it made no sense.



Dear Decophile, you are not happy!    I feel  pretty much the same way about a sloppy ending.  After crafting the story, NP really let us down and we deserved much better than what he gave us, though some bloggers have written that we should be happy for the great ride and overlook the ending.

RE Errol:  He was a good mimic and watching Turner Classic Movies turned him into a vocal Cary Grant.  You had the sense that the world was a stage for him and all the things you saw with staging Dora Lange and the stick figures were part of it. He spoke of "ascending"  so the temporal world had no meaning for him outside of his ritualistic behaviors.  .  It was a form of purgatory for him and the house and environs certainly looked that way. The killings were part of his road to ascension, but this was never explained.    He had a whole world inside his head and his own mythology.  A problem to me was that all the other people who participated in the rituals must have been a part of this too.  They certainly did not evaporate into thin air.  All the unanwered questions!  This is our Carcosa!


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> Dear Decophile, you are not happy!    I feel  pretty much the same way about a sloppy ending.  After crafting the story, NP really let us down and we deserved much better than what he gave us, though some bloggers have written that we should be happy for the great ride and overlook the ending.
> 
> RE Errol:  He was a good mimic and watching Turner Classic Movies turned him into a vocal Cary Grant.  You had the sense that the world was a stage for him and all the things you saw with staging Dora Lange and the stick figures were part of it. He spoke of "ascending"  so the temporal world had no meaning for him outside of his ritualistic behaviors.  .  It was a form of purgatory for him and the house and environs certainly looked that way. The killings were part of his road to ascension, but this was never explained.    He had a whole world inside his head and his own mythology.  A problem to me was that all the other people who participated in the rituals must have been a part of this too.  They certainly did not evaporate into thin air.  All the unanwered questions!  This is our Carcosa!


This is how I talk when I'm happy [critiquing is a favorite pastime of mine] .  You should see me when I'm displeased.  Or maybe not!

I understand that NP was drawing a profile of such a person in Errol.  I'm just calling BS because all those characteristics and tendencies do not occur in one person and I can take this being fiction only so far.


----------



## Brandless

Decophile said:


> The biggest problem I have with the finale is not that they didn't tie up all the loose ends with a nice tidy bow.  Yes, it was annoying and disappointing, but far from fatal or hoaky. What I found hoaky was that the whole Errol character just did not add up.  He's obviously a backwoods inbred psycho, living in utter filth and excrement strewn out in the open in his house.  And yet he can bang out a perfect British accent on cue, and is completely poised and self-possessed when two men with guns are after him.
> 
> But the biggest disconnect was that this filthy sewer rat of a killer manages to bust out great symmetry, elegance and a poetically constructed "scene" using Dora's body.  There was also way too much "order" and symmetry in Carcosa.  Sure, it was creepy and dark and twisted, like walking through a nightmare, but there was an _aesthetic _to it, and I don't buy for a second that Error had any sense of aesthetic.  Even if someone else built it, he'd have wrecked it over time, because he's just a pig who doesn't recognize sacred space, or the sanctity of anything.
> 
> So the great big killer who eluded our guys from episode one turns out to be a complete dork, an unwashed savage, and yet at the same time some higher evolved creature plumbing the depths of evil with a the sophisticated discernment. I just can't buy that.  I can suspend disbelief left and right, but this one was too much for me to swallow. NP didn't know how to end the story so he just threw in a lot of 11th hour hair-raising texture and blood-curdling context, but it made no sense.




I agree! I also felt the same way about Erroll. He sounded highly educated.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> *This is how I talk when I'm happy *[critiquing is a favorite pastime of mine] .  You should see me when I'm displeased.  Or maybe not!
> 
> I understand that NP was drawing a profile of such a person in Errol.  I'm just calling BS because all those characteristics and tendencies do not occur in one person and I can take this being fiction only so far.




LOL!

Nothing like a little deus ex machina and suspension of disbelief.  NP did teach before figuring out how to make some real money.


----------



## lurkernomore

I wanted to process the final episode before I posted. I am okay with the ending - I don't know how else it could have ended. I don't think they wanted all of the loose ends tied up because so many of us had our own theories on what was going to happen. 
I am really glad Maggie wasn't involved (or at least to our knowledge), and I don't have a problem with the way women were treated in the series. The final episode produced some great acting - I had trouble watching the scene in the fort, and really didn't want the main characters to die.
So, bring on next season - I am in!


----------



## chowlover2

Decophile said:


> The biggest problem I have with the finale is not that they didn't tie up all the loose ends with a nice tidy bow.  Yes, it was annoying and disappointing, but far from fatal or hoaky. What I found hoaky was that the whole Errol character just did not add up.  He's obviously a backwoods inbred psycho, living in utter filth and excrement strewn out in the open in his house.  And yet he can bang out a perfect British accent on cue, and is completely poised and self-possessed when two men with guns are after him.
> 
> But the biggest disconnect was that this filthy sewer rat of a killer manages to bust out great symmetry, elegance and a poetically constructed "scene" using Dora's body.  There was also way too much "order" and symmetry in Carcosa.  Sure, it was creepy and dark and twisted, like walking through a nightmare, but there was an _aesthetic _to it, and I don't buy for a second that Error had any sense of aesthetic.  Even if someone else built it, he'd have wrecked it over time, because he's just a pig who doesn't recognize sacred space, or the sanctity of anything.
> 
> So the great big killer who eluded our guys from episode one turns out to be a complete dork, an unwashed savage, and yet at the same time some higher evolved creature plumbing the depths of evil with a the sophisticated discernment. I just can't buy that.  I can suspend disbelief left and right, but this one was too much for me to swallow. NP didn't know how to end the story so he just threw in a lot of 11th hour hair-raising texture and blood-curdling context, but it made no sense.


I read an article with Nick P, and when Errol's mouth was burned, he had to learn how to speak again and used TV as a tool, therefore the accents.


I didn't take Carcosa as something Errol built. First off the fort was from pre-Civil War era, and his family had been there then. I assumed his ancestors built the original Carcosa in the deserted fort, and Errol embellished as he took over the killing. I am pretty sure the piles of dead children's clothing was from Errol, I think he had a field day killing after Katrina.  We have no idea how long his father was dead, but can assume he took a role in the killings as it seemed to be the Tuttle and Childress families were in charge. 


The one loose end I would have liked tied up is Audrey with the dirty pictures and dead Barbie dolls. Something happened there. Did she know girls who went to the Tuttle schools and that was what she picked up on?


----------



## PJ86

Decophile said:


> The biggest problem I have with the finale is not that they didn't tie up all the loose ends with a nice tidy bow.  Yes, it was annoying and disappointing, but far from fatal or hoaky. What I found hoaky was that the whole Errol character just did not add up.  He's obviously a backwoods inbred psycho, living in utter filth and excrement strewn out in the open in his house.  And yet he can bang out a perfect British accent on cue, and is completely poised and self-possessed when two men with guns are after him.
> 
> But the biggest disconnect was that this filthy sewer rat of a killer manages to bust out great symmetry, elegance and a poetically constructed "scene" using Dora's body.  There was also way too much "order" and symmetry in Carcosa.  Sure, it was creepy and dark and twisted, like walking through a nightmare, but there was an _aesthetic _to it, and I don't buy for a second that Error had any sense of aesthetic.  Even if someone else built it, he'd have wrecked it over time, because he's just a pig who doesn't recognize sacred space, or the sanctity of anything.
> 
> So the great big killer who eluded our guys from episode one turns out to be a complete dork, an unwashed savage, and yet at the same time some higher evolved creature plumbing the depths of evil with a the sophisticated discernment. I just can't buy that.  I can suspend disbelief left and right, but this one was too much for me to swallow. NP didn't know how to end the story so he just threw in a lot of 11th hour hair-raising texture and blood-curdling context, but it made no sense.



Maybe it has to do with the "take off your mask" repeatedly said through the series?  
It was one of his masks?


----------



## Brandless

chowlover2 said:


> I read an article with Nick P, and when Errol's mouth was burned, he had to learn how to speak again and used TV as a tool, therefore the accents.
> 
> 
> I didn't take Carcosa as something Errol built. First off the fort was from pre-Civil War era, and his family had been there then. I assumed his ancestors built the original Carcosa in the deserted fort, and Errol embellished as he took over the killing. I am pretty sure the piles of dead children's clothing was from Errol, I think he had a field day killing after Katrina.  We have no idea how long his father was dead, but can assume he took a role in the killings as it seemed to be the Tuttle and Childress families were in charge.
> 
> 
> The one loose end I would have liked tied up is Audrey with the dirty pictures and dead Barbie dolls. Something happened there. Did she know girls who went to the Tuttle schools and that was what she picked up on?




Was that mentioned in the series itself (referring to Erroll learning to speak again)? I hope next season, NP takes into consideration the viewers' feedback.


----------



## chowlover2

Brandless said:


> Was that mentioned in the series itself (referring to Erroll learning to speak again)? I hope next season, NP takes into consideration the viewers' feedback.


No, in an interview with him. I've read so many interviews with him I can't pinpoint where or I would attach. If you were to Google the Finale it will turn up. 


I never found out how long Papa Childress was dead. It looked mummified, but I can't imagine that in the LA heat and humidity. I did love Errol's touch of sewing his mouth closed.


----------



## Brandless

chowlover2 said:


> No, in an interview with him. I've read so many interviews with him I can't pinpoint where or I would attach. If you were to Google the Finale it will turn up.
> 
> 
> I never found out how long Papa Childress was dead. It looked mummified, but I can't imagine that in the LA heat and humidity. I did love Errol's touch of sewing his mouth closed.



Thanks! I guess it's up to the viewers to search for answers then. Why couldn't they disclose info like that in the series itself?


----------



## chowlover2

Brandless said:


> Thanks! I guess it's up to the viewers to search for answers then. Why couldn't they disclose info like that in the series itself?


Who knows? 


I wished Marty had let P & G explain what they had found when they thanked him for the collar. I get Marty having had enough of it all, but it could have tidied everything up for the viewer.


----------



## littlerock

This is hilarious. As it is, my husband and I love these commercials.. then they had to go and spoof TD. A++

http://thefw.com/true-detective-att-commercial/


----------



## sarahloveslouis

littlerock said:


> This is hilarious. As it is, my husband and I love these commercials.. then they had to go and spoof TD. A++
> 
> http://thefw.com/true-detective-att-commercial/




LOL!! This is genius.


----------



## sarahloveslouis

I just downloaded the main theme on iTunes yesterday... It's so haunting and beautiful!


----------



## chowlover2

Brilliant!


----------



## Cornflower Blue

Have just seen the final episode tonight (in the UK) and we were all the the edges of our seats. Before the episode aired, this is how we thought things might pan out :-

1) Mr CB thought Martys wife Maggie (and her politician father) and Audrey would have been involved somehow.

2) I thought that both Marty and Rust would be shot dead and nothing would be resolved.

3) Master CB thought that the other 2 detectives, Papania and Gilbough, would be killed.

I'm thankful for small mercies so I'm pleased that the 'most bad' got his comeuppance and that Marty and Rust survived. But I agree that there's loose ends. I don't like red herrings but I'm not feeling all that 'played' tbh. I do feel the last episode was slightly rushed though. I'm sure it was meant to be climactic, but heck the pace alone was like triple speed compared to the relatively slow burn of the previous episodes and the introduction proper of Errol and Co. was a lot to take on board. Anyway the fact that there's some sort of hope/peace in life for both Marty and Rust at the end, is good enough for me...


----------



## chowlover2

Cornflower Blue said:


> Have just seen the final episode tonight (in the UK) and we were all the the edges of our seats. Before the episode aired, this is how we thought things might pan out :-
> 
> 1) Mr CB thought Martys wife Maggie (and her politician father) and Audrey would have been involved somehow.
> 
> 2) I thought that both Marty and Rust would be shot dead and nothing would be resolved.
> 
> 3) Master CB thought that the other 2 detectives, Papania and Gilbough, would be killed.
> 
> I'm thankful for small mercies so I'm pleased that the 'most bad' got his comeuppance and that Marty and Rust survived. But I agree that there's loose ends. I don't like red herrings but I'm not feeling all that 'played' tbh. I do feel the last episode was slightly rushed though. I'm sure it was meant to be climactic, but heck the pace alone was like triple speed compared to the relatively slow burn of the previous episodes and the introduction proper of Errol and Co. was a lot to take on board. Anyway the fact that there's some sort of hope/peace in life for both Marty and Rust at the end, is good enough for me...


 Have you seen Red Riding? I've heard it is a British mystery that takes place in Yorkshire and is similar to this series. I haven't known anyone who has seen it personally, but if is good I will seek it out.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

chowlover2 said:


> Have you seen Red Riding? I've heard it is a British mystery that takes place in Yorkshire and is similar to this series. I haven't known anyone who has seen it personally, but if is good I will seek it out.



Haven't heard of that one, I'll have to investigate...


----------



## neonfiller

chowlover2 said:


> Have you seen Red Riding? I've heard it is a British mystery that takes place in Yorkshire and is similar to this series. I haven't known anyone who has seen it personally, but if is good I will seek it out.



Yes, the Red Riding trilogy is very much worth seeking out. Very intelligently written and acted.


----------



## chowlover2

neonfiller said:


> Yes, the Red Riding trilogy is very much worth seeking out. Very intelligently written and acted.


 Thanks!


----------



## chowlover2

Here's a blurb about season 2





> http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/tru...ast-three-leads-california-setting-1201193624[QUOTE/]


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> Here's a blurb about season 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/tru...ast-three-leads-california-setting-1201193624[QUOTE/]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Occult history of the US transportation system.  Huh?   Dead bodies under paved roadways? Ghosts in trains?
Click to expand...


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> chowlover2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a blurb about season 2
> 
> 
> 
> Occult history of the US transportation system.  Huh?   Dead bodies under paved roadways? Ghosts in trains?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am as mystified about that as you are!
Click to expand...


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> chowlover2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a blurb about season 2
> 
> Occult history of the US transportation system. Huh? Dead bodies under paved roadways? Ghosts in trains?
> 
> 
> 
> This could be promising!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueDetective/comments/21cp3o/wondering_what_secret_occult_history_of_the/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And throw in some Bohemian Grove and we're ready to go!
Click to expand...


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> gracekelly said:
> 
> 
> 
> This could be promising! And throw in some Bohemian Grove and we're ready to go!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some child's drawing of naked people.
Click to expand...


----------



## sthrncin

Whatever it's gonna be, I can't wait!!!&#128540;&#128540;


----------



## chowlover2

sthrncin said:


> Whatever it's gonna be, I can't wait!!!&#55357;&#56860;&#55357;&#56860;


 Me too!


----------



## azsun

Sounds goog to me!  I like that they are going with a venue other than LA in California.  Lots of quirky, creepy little towns in northern CA.


----------



## gracekelly

azsun said:


> Sounds goog to me!  I like that they are going with a venue other than LA in California.  Lots of quirky, creepy little towns in northern CA.



Those little towns up in the Redwood where they grow marijuana and everyone looks like an ax murderer?  Or the communes where they have cult leaders?  

Sounds like fun!


----------



## chowlover2

After watching Fargo I could definitely see Billy Bob Thornton in one of the leads for the 2 nd season. I forgot what a great actor he is.

My set of season 1 DVD's came today, I'm going to binge watch this week!


----------



## sthrncin

chowlover2 said:


> After watching Fargo I could definitely see Billy Bob Thornton in one of the leads for the 2 nd season. I forgot what a great actor he is.
> 
> My set of season 1 DVD's came today, I'm going to binge watch this week!




I just watched Fargo too, billy bob is so good in it. He would be great in true detective!!


----------



## Brandless

Wow, both Matthew and Woody are nominated in same best actor category for the Emmy 2014! If Matthew wins, he'll be the first actor to win both Emmy and Oscar in same year. But this is a tough category which includes my favorite Bryan Cranston.


----------



## *schmoo*

they both deserve it (as does Bryan C)


----------



## chowlover2

Brandless said:


> Wow, both Matthew and Woody are nominated in same best actor category for the Emmy 2014! If Matthew wins, he'll be the first actor to win both Emmy and Oscar in same year. But this is a tough category which includes my favorite Bryan Cranston.


 That is going to be tough, all 3 deserve it!


----------



## sthrncin

Just read they're in talks with Colin Farell for season 2.


----------



## OutOfLux

Brandless said:


> Wow, both Matthew and Woody are nominated in same best actor category for the Emmy 2014! If Matthew wins, he'll be the first actor to win both Emmy and Oscar in same year. But this is a tough category which includes my favorite Bryan Cranston.



that will be interesting. I don't want to see any of them lose


----------



## tln

sthrncin said:


> Just read they're in talks with Colin Farell for season 2.



I don't think of him as being the same caliber as Woody or Matthew, but I bet he would surprise people in a show like this.  How interesting!


----------



## *schmoo*

so Matthew and Woody are definitely out? I would still watch if Collin was cast but I hoped the orig cast were sticking around


----------



## gracekelly

Not a huge fan of Colin Farrell.  Hope there are more choices.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> Not a huge fan of Colin Farrell. Hope there are more choices.


 I agree, there are better actors out there. I can't name one thing he has been in other than the remake of Miami Vice...


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> I agree, there are better actors out there. I can't name one thing he has been in other than the remake of Miami Vice...



Total Recall and it was awful.. The original with Arnold was really great.


----------



## chowlover2

I forgot about that one. Billy Bob would be great, I think they need an established actor, but more of a character actor. Gary Oldman inhabits a role. There are much better actors out there than Colin Farrell.


----------



## gemini582

Colin is a good actor he just picks sh!tty roles. He's good in In Bruges. I never thought Matthew was a good actor until I saw him in this. I'm sure Colin will be fine.


----------



## gracekelly

Even though movie actors like to keep their distance from TV, even cable TV, it has lately been seen as a way to bolster sagging careers.   This may be Colin's answer to picking those less than stellar movie roles.  He will be seen in something that is going to be well written and widely viewed.  You can't ask for more as an actor today.


----------



## chowlover2

I think the best roles for actors are on TV today. TV gives an actor a chance to really flesh out a character. Much more than a 2 hr film. 

I was curious how Martin Freeman would fare on Fargo. He's wonderful on Sherlock and in the Hobbit films. He nailed it in Fargo. It was so odd hearing him with the Minnesota accent.


----------



## Freckles1

Regardless, it's a TOUGH act to follow.... Good luck to the next duo!!!!


----------



## dr.pepper

chowlover2 said:


> I forgot about that one. Billy Bob would be great, I think they need an established actor, but more of a character actor. Gary Oldman inhabits a role. There are much better actors out there than Colin Farrell.



Ooh I'd love to see Oldman in a True Detective anthology. Great suggestion!

I am not a Colin Farrell fan in the slightest. They were banking on his looks but he is a mediocre actor at best, no matter what type of role he's in. I also find his brows very distracting.


----------



## sthrncin

Yes, it is a tough act to follow. Billy Bob sounds great to me! Fargo was awesome.


----------



## gracekelly

Tim Roth would be good too.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> Tim Roth would be good too.


 Yes! I haven't seen him in awhile.


----------



## sthrncin

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...e-detective-season-2-report-article-1.1866220


----------



## chowlover2

I've never even heard of the second actor...


----------



## sthrncin

chowlover2 said:


> I've never even heard of the second actor...




He was in lone survivor and the normal heart.


----------



## chowlover2

sthrncin said:


> He was in lone survivor and the normal heart.


I have The Normal Heart on my DVR but have yet to watch.


----------



## rshelton13

chowlover2 said:


> I have The Normal Heart on my DVR but have yet to watch.




It's so good.  Keep a box of tissues near you


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum


----------



## gracekelly

Both of them were in box office flops.


----------



## TC1

chowlover2 said:


> I've never even heard of the second actor...


 
Chow, Taylor was in all 5 seasons of the TV series Friday Night Lights. He's quite swoon-worthy IMO


----------



## sthrncin

chowlover2 said:


> I have The Normal Heart on my DVR but have yet to watch.


It's a very sad movie. Some very good acting in it. I love Jim Parsons and Mark Ruffalo.


----------



## Freckles1

I like Eric Bana and Christian Bale together!!!!! Talk about intense and yummy ALL at the same time!!!


----------



## chowlover2

TC1 said:


> Chow, Taylor was in all 5 seasons of the TV series Friday Night Lights. He's quite swoon-worthy IMO




I didn't see that either.


----------



## chowlover2

I read some casting buzz. Vince Vaughn and Elizabeth Moss are possible actors for the new season. I love Elizabeth,  she was wonderful in Top of the Lake. I like Vince when I think of his early work ( Swingers ), if he did a good job here it could turn his career around  I have heard Colin Farrell is a done deal.


----------



## dr.pepper

Vaughn and Moss sound good. Not sure I'd watch Farrell or the Taylor guy. No way Bale would do it, IMHO. He likely already has commitments.

Any more juice on the storyline?


----------



## chowlover2

This is what I've found!





> http://www.avclub.com/article/elisabeth-moss-also-talks-true-detective-which-we--207765


----------



## sthrncin

Well I loved the show, and will give the 2nd season a try no matter who they put in it. I think it will be good.


----------



## chowlover2

Well, it's been confirmed Colin Farrell is one of the leads in a season 2. I can't copy on my IPad, but do know they are still looking for a female. I am no fan of Volin's, but if you had told me I was going to love watching a show with Matt and Woody I might have thought you were crazy as well.


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## Freckles1

I heard on Ryan seacrest's show that Amy Adams was approached...


----------



## chowlover2

Freckles1 said:


> I heard on Ryan seacrest's show that Amy Adams was approached...




I like both Amy and Elizabeth Moss. 


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## Freckles1

chowlover2 said:


> I like both Amy and Elizabeth Moss.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a




Either would be fantastic!!


----------



## Singra

Don't know how I feel about Colin Farrell for TD but I'll keep an open mind.


----------



## dr.pepper

I'd take Vaughn over Farrell. 

I will still watch but I have always felt Farrell didn't take off for a reason -- he is a mediocre actor.


----------



## gracekelly

dr.pepper said:


> I'd take Vaughn over Farrell.
> 
> I will still watch but I have always felt Farrell didn't take off for a reason -- he is a mediocre actor.



Agree with that.

Also saw that Rosario Dawson could be on the show.  She is great and would fit into the plot planned very nicely.


----------



## azsun

I'm not thrilled with Vaughn or Farrell.   Whoever is in season 2 will have big shoes to fill....following Woody and Matthew in season 1.


----------



## chowlover2

azsun said:


> I'm not thrilled with Vaughn or Farrell.   Whoever is in season 2 will have big shoes to fill....following Woody and Matthew in season 1.




Agreed!


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## chowlover2

Vince Vaughn has definitely signed on for season 2!


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## azsun

I saw on the news that Farrell had signed on for Season 2....so, guess it's official, Vaughn & Farrell.


----------



## iluvmybags

From the True Detective FB page



> Colin Farrell and Vince Vaughn confirmed to star in True Detective Season 2 and Justin Lin is set to direct the first two episodes




I don't like either one of these guys so I don't know that I'll be watching.  These kinds of shows aren't usually my "cup of tea" but Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson made me wanna watch.  These two, eh, not so much.


----------



## sthrncin

Maybe the storyline will make it worthwhile.


----------



## chowlover2

I'll give it a shot. The writing was what drove me to watch season 1.


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## Freckles1

Is Vince Vaugn going to be able to be serious? I'm not sure about him. But I will give it a shot


----------



## chowlover2

Freckles1 said:


> Is Vince Vaugn going to be able to be serious? I'm not sure about him. But I will give it a shot




He started out as a serious actor. I believe he was serious in Swingers, his first film. I have heard actors say it's much harder to do comedy than serious films. In comedy you either have it or you don't. I guess we shall soon see...


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## gracekelly

Freckles1 said:


> Is Vince Vaugn going to be able to be serious? I'm not sure about him. But I will give it a shot



Don't forget that Woody Harrelson started out in Cheers which was a sitcom and he has also done comedy parts in movies.  If you are a good actor, you can handle both the comedic and the serious.  I don't know much about VV and I know I don't like Farrell, but I will certainly give this a shot too when it airs.


----------



## Freckles1

Well I'm in. Good grief I've been watching reruns every Sunday night of Matthew and woody. Just gets better I think!!!


----------



## Brandless

Freckles1 said:


> Is Vince Vaugn going to be able to be serious? I'm not sure about him. But I will give it a shot




I remember him playing Norman Bates in a remake of Psycho. I'm not sure whether I like him as a serious actor or a comic.


----------



## chowlover2

Brandless said:


> I remember him playing Norman Bates in a remake of Psycho. I'm not sure whether I like him as a serious actor or a comic.


OMG! I forgot all about him in Psycho! I thought he did a great job in that movie, so I hope we will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Singra

Vince Vaughn wasn't bad as a dramatic actor in his early roles... he was also pretty good in Return to Paradise. He's quite good at playing morally ambivalent, slick/smarmy characters. 

Farrell can, on occasion, be very good but I find him a little indulgent, I think he needs a good director to reign him in. 

On paper this casting news isn't reading as lightning in a bottle in the way that Woody/Matthew did but you never know... please let them get a good director. 

From this poll it seems most people are excited about the casting... and by most people I mean 30 people lol.   

And someone is making a case for Kiera Knightley to be cast... whaaaaat? http://truedetectiverumors.com/2014/09/24/keira-knightly-needs-considered-true-detective-role/


----------



## chowlover2

Singra said:


> Vince Vaughn wasn't bad as a dramatic actor in his early roles... he was also pretty good in Return to Paradise. He's quite good at playing morally ambivalent, slick/smarmy characters.
> 
> Farrell can, on occasion, be very good but I find him a little indulgent, I think he needs a good director to reign him in.
> 
> On paper this casting news isn't reading as lightning in a bottle in the way that Woody/Matthew did but you never know... please let them get a good director.
> 
> From this poll it seems most people are excited about the casting... and by most people I mean 30 people lol.
> 
> And someone is making a case for Kiera Knightley to be cast... whaaaaat? http://truedetectiverumors.com/2014/09/24/keira-knightly-needs-considered-true-detective-role/




You beat me to the punch, I was just going to post about Keira Knightley. That would be an interesting off the wall choice. Keira can be badass, remember Domino? I think she would also bring some star power the other 2 leads don't generate. Elizabeth Moss is still my first choice. Has anyone else here seen Top of the Lake? If not you must as she is wonderful in it. I do think a great director is key, they can make or break a film.


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## iluvmybags

Singra said:


> Vince Vaughn wasn't bad as a dramatic actor in his early roles... he was also pretty good in Return to Paradise. He's quite good at playing morally ambivalent, slick/smarmy characters.
> 
> Farrell can, on occasion, be very good but I find him a little indulgent, I think he needs a good director to reign him in.
> 
> On paper this casting news isn't reading as lightning in a bottle in the way that Woody/Matthew did but you never know... please let them get a good director.
> 
> From this poll it seems most people are excited about the casting... and by most people I mean 30 people lol.
> 
> *And someone is making a case for Kiera Knightley to be cast... whaaaaat? http://truedetectiverumors.com/2014/09/24/keira-knightly-needs-considered-true-detective-role/*



I've heard Amy Adams name tossed around.


----------



## chowlover2

iluvmybags said:


> I've heard Amy Adams name tossed around.




Me either, and I love her. I have heard of Rachel McAdams, so perhaps someone has confused the two?


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## gracekelly

Still voting for Rosario Dawson who fits the part as described.


----------



## dr.pepper

Has anyone heard officially who is playing what?

I saw on Gawker that Vince is playing a bad guy, so it's Farrell and a female detective that are the detectives. 

I'm not too stoked on the casting but I will watch anyway because I'm an HBO junkie. It is kind of impossible to capture the eerie factor of the first installment. I doubt this one will be as good, even if we had better actors. The first season was so unique, I loved the setting, the characters and the intense storyline. It's kind of silly to try and recreate that, so they'll just do as good as they can.


----------



## chowlover2

dr.pepper said:


> Has anyone heard officially who is playing what?
> 
> I saw on Gawker that Vince is playing a bad guy, so it's Farrell and a female detective that are the detectives.
> 
> I'm not too stoked on the casting but I will watch anyway because I'm an HBO junkie. It is kind of impossible to capture the eerie factor of the first installment. I doubt this one will be as good, even if we had better actors. The first season was so unique, I loved the setting, the characters and the intense storyline. It's kind of silly to try and recreate that, so they'll just do as good as they can.




I think so much of the show is in the writing, and the actors bring it to life. If there is a good script, the rest will follow.


Sent from my iPad using PurseForum mobile app looking for Bal 2007 Paprika ( Rouille ) City or Part a Time w/GGH, please PM me!'a


----------



## Singra

It looking likely that Rachel McAdams will be cast...

*Rachel McAdams Gets Offer For Female Lead For 'True Detective' Season 2, Taylor Kitsch Expected To Join*

Given the flurry of verbiage typed upon each microscopic update (yes, we're implicating ourselves) you would think that "True Detective" season two was being directed by J.J. Abrams and is feature a Millennium Falcon. Neither is true, but there's no denying HBO's show is buzzy as all get out, and now it looks like Nic Pizzolatto and co. are circling in on a female lead.

Beating out an array of contenders including Rosario Dawson, Kelly Reilly, Jessica Biel, Malin Akerman, Abigail Spencer, Oona Chaplin, Jaimie Alexander, Brit Marling and the recently revealed Keira Knightley, Variety reports that Rachel McAdams now has the offer from the network for the lead female role. Moreover, Taylor Kitsch is "expected" to be on board as well for a second season that will follow three police officers and a career criminal who must navigate a web of conspiracy in the aftermath of a murder.

So, it looks you're getting Colin Farrell, Vince Vaughn, McAdams and Kitsch for "True Detective" season two, with Justin Lin directing the first two episodes. Can't say that HBO isn't keeping you on your toes... 

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...son-2-taylor-kitsch-expected-to-join-20140925


----------



## Singra

As per last season it looks as if they're going for established stars that are due for a comeback or reinvention. Wonder why they didn't go for Rosario Dawson because she would fit in that category... not sure what the character is but maybe this role is too similar to other roles she's played in the past. Rachel McAdams will surely be playing against type in this series whatever the role. 

The Justin Lin choice is interesting because in some ways he's stylistically the opposite of Fukunaga. I'm interested to see how much he inputs into the look of the next season. It'll be hard to top last season so perhaps the best strategy will be to go in a different direction.


----------



## Singra

I haven't watched this yet but from the description it sounds funny... spoof of TD - Tiny Detectives with Kate Mara & Ellen Page


----------



## dr.pepper

Eh, this sounds tiring. I am not in love with any of these casting choices based on the actors' previous work. Vaughn is the best among them IMHO.

Is the Northern California-occult-railroads thing still the storyline?


----------



## Livia1

Trailer for True Detective season 2
http://www.hbo.com/true-detective#/


----------



## deltalady

I'm finding it a bit slow so far.


----------



## chowlover2

deltalady said:


> I'm finding it a bit slow so far.




I feel as if they introduced too many characters in the first episode. 2 hr premiere may have been better. Or just concentrate on the 3 leads the first hour.


----------



## deltalady

chowlover2 said:


> I feel as if they introduced too many characters in the first episode. 2 hr premiere may have been better. Or just concentrate on the 3 leads the first hour.



You're right because I have no clue who Vince Vaughn is supposed to be.


----------



## gracekelly

I'll give it one more epi.  Never a fan of Farrell and still not.


----------



## Love4H

I haven't watched it yet but I'm a fan of the first season. 
Is it about the same two detectives? I loved them.


----------



## proud2bblonde

I agree, to many characters introduced in the first episode. Regarding Colin's character, that red headed kid is his son, but who was that other guy with the kid? When Farrell went to give his son the sleeping bag for his camping trip and he was arguing with some guy? Farrell's wife was murdered correct? Is him and Vaughn going on a mission to find the killer?


----------



## deltalady

proud2bblonde said:


> I agree, to many characters introduced in the first episode. Regarding Colin's character, that red headed kid is his son, but who was that other guy with the kid? When Farrell went to give his son the sleeping bag for his camping trip and he was arguing with some guy? Farrell's wife was murdered correct? Is him and Vaughn going on a mission to find the killer?



No, she was raped and beaten. They never got a paternity test so he's not sure if his son is his or the attacker. I'm assuming that guy was his ex wife's new guy.


----------



## sthrncin

Oh I'm so lost after one episode. Will have to watch it again. Hope it gets a little easier to get into.


----------



## proud2bblonde

deltalady said:


> No, she was raped and beaten. They never got a paternity test so he's not sure if his son is his or the attacker. I'm assuming that guy was his ex wife's new guy.


 
OH Ok that makes sense...Thanks!


----------



## Creativelyswank

I agree they gave us a lot to digest in one epi and 2 hours would have probably been better, but I'm loving it! 
Yes, the man with his son was his wife's new husband. VV's character I'm still a little unclear on, except he is the villain...or is he? It seems these characters are their own villains.


----------



## LavenderIce

deltalady said:


> No, she was raped and beaten. *They never got a paternity test so he's not sure if his son is his or the attacker.* I'm assuming that guy was his ex wife's new guy.



I can appreciate that he feels that he is that kid's father, but that boy looks nothing like him.

As someone said, the main characters are their own demons.  However, Colin seems to really want to do right by his son.  I just don't see that he's fully healed whatever is going on inside him to be fully capable of pulling through.

The episode was slow and introduced a lot of characters.  It will be interesting to see how the story moves along in future episodes.  I'm really interested in who was behind what happened to Casper and how that will bring the main characters together.


----------



## katran26

I'm actually enjoying this season - I found last season to be a bit on the slow side. 

I love seeing Vince Vaughn in a non-comedic role, I think he's a good actor, but he's always cast in comedies...good seeing him in a drama.


----------



## TC1

I really loved the first episode!. I'm interested in seeing Taylor Kitch's character develop. I think Colin Farrell and Vince Vaughn are great. Not sure how much I care for Rachel McAdams..I guess I'll have to see!.


----------



## lucywife

Feeling a bit overwhelmed.


----------



## TC1

^^ I think that's how it's meant to be..that's how it started off last season too. Throw us in the deep end and let us catch up..


----------



## lovely64

Love this show.


----------



## lovely64

They have only run the first season here in Sweden though.


----------



## proud2bblonde

TC1 said:


> I really loved the first episode!. I'm interested in seeing Taylor Kitch's character develop. I think Colin Farrell and Vince Vaughn are great. Not sure how much I care for Rachel McAdams..I guess I'll have to see!.


 
I agree with Taylor Kitch's character. Was he taking Viagara? (that blue pill)


----------



## deltalady

proud2bblonde said:


> I agree with Taylor Kitch's character. Was he taking Viagara? (that blue pill)



Yes, it was Viagra.


----------



## Deco

I enjoyed the first episode enough to keep watching, but it didn't have the same impact last season did.  Last time I was hopelessly hooked and sucked in after one episode.    Woody was awesome and Matthew is a tough act to follow, though I can really do without his zen-master affected Lincoln commercials.

It's a bit of a drag that all three cops are such utter basket cases.  Couldn't at least one of them not be a complete psycho mess?

Fertility seams to be a theme!  Colin couldn't conceive for years, then wife gets raped and BAM!  Vince has to go through IVF.  Taylor needs Viagra.  Hmmmm...


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> I enjoyed the first episode enough to keep watching, but it didn't have the same impact last season did.  Last time I was hopelessly hooked and sucked in after one episode.    Woody was awesome and Matthew is a tough act to follow, though I can really do without his zen-master affected Lincoln commercials.
> 
> It's a bit of a drag that all three cops are such utter basket cases.  Couldn't at least one of them not be a complete psycho mess?
> 
> Fertility seams to be a theme!  Colin couldn't conceive for years, then wife gets raped and BAM!  Vince has to go through IVF.  Taylor needs Viagra.  Hmmmm...




Nick Pizzolatto must be obsessed about sex lol!  Marty couldn't keep his zipper closed when he was married.  

I was totally confused until the end when they each said which PD they were from.

They are slamming you over the head that the boy is not his child.  He has RED HAIR

So far the actor I like the best is David Morse.


----------



## merc_g

I didn't watch the first season, but decided I wanted to try out this season. So far, I'm really liking it. Like others have said, it's a lot to take in, and I'm interested to see how the stories play out.


----------



## Jeneen

I'm really hoping this season is as gripping as the last. Colin Farrell's character is crazy.


----------



## sarahloveslouis

gracekelly said:


> So far the actor I like the best is David Morse.



YES Yes yes. I love him!


----------



## gracekelly

sarahloveslouis said:


> YES Yes yes. I love him!



Rememer St. Elsewere?  His character bugged the hell out of me!


----------



## lurkernomore

watched last night, and will continue to watch. The dysfunction of the lead characters is worth watching alone for me.
I also want to check out the Brink and Ballers.


----------



## gracekelly

I tried to watch it again last night, but my Colin Farrell dislike made me turn the channel.  Ugh!  Can't stand him!  How did this guy get so successful in Hollywood?  He is a terrible actor!


----------



## sthrncin

I love it, rewatched again last night. It's dark and creepy. Like seeing Vince in this dark role.


----------



## TC1

Just a random musing. I thought Viagra was supposed to be a "little blue pill" not the pill a size of a horse tranquilizer that Taylor took :giggles:


----------



## lucywife

TC1 said:


> Just a random musing. I thought Viagra was supposed to be a "little blue pill" not the pill a size of a horse tranquilizer that Taylor took :giggles:


Yeah, that was some giant Viagra pill.


----------



## eleanors36

TC1 said:


> Just a random musing. I thought Viagra was supposed to be a "little blue pill" not the pill a size of a horse tranquilizer that Taylor took :giggles:


----------



## eleanors36

Decophile said:


> I enjoyed the first episode enough to keep watching, but it didn't have the same impact last season did.  Last time I was hopelessly hooked and sucked in after one episode.    Woody was awesome and Matthew is a tough act to follow, though I can really do without his zen-master affected Lincoln commercials.
> 
> It's a bit of a drag that all three cops are such utter basket cases.  Couldn't at least one of them not be a complete psycho mess?
> 
> Fertility seams to be a theme!  Colin couldn't conceive for years, then wife gets raped and BAM!  Vince has to go through IVF.  Taylor needs Viagra.  Hmmmm...



Very true. 



Jeneen said:


> I'm really hoping this season is as gripping as the last. Colin Farrell's character is crazy.



Crazy?  Oh yes!  That scene with the father and son just made me sick.  Farrell must be channeling some old demons here.


----------



## Singra

Im very divided on this show, there are elements I really like and then there's all the other stuff which I'm never quite sure how to interpret. Is it supposed to so self serious? or is it supposed to be ironic? or is it supposed to be subversive... or what the heck? because a lot of the time it feels like a run of the mill gothic, noir series.

The last season for me was a portrait of two men's friendship and I wasn't really into all the yellow king theorising. I'm okay with the show being primarily concerned with masculine relationships (I don't need every show to offer up the most inoffensive PC version possible) if it has some comment on it. The portrait of masculinity they offered up in the last season seemed to be a cautionary tale, I didn't think the writer/creator of the show were endorsing it... they seemed to be actively warning against it... that's what I took from it anyway.   

So this season seems to be more of the same... the self consciously corrupt, diseased, wounded portraits of masculinity. The three male characters are emasculated in some form, the most masculine character is female (or a corrupted version of femininity) and I guess all of this is tied, in some Shakespearean/Greek tragedy kind of way, to the corruption of the land... or something. 

Vince Vaughn for me is the weakest actor so far. I don't mind Farrell or McAdams but Vaughn... I think he's been away from "serious" acting for too long... the lines that fell flat were completely his fault in my very opinionated opinion.


----------



## lucywife

Singra said:


> The last season for me was a portrait of two men's friendship.
> 
> Vince Vaughn for me is the weakest actor so far. I don't mind Farrell or McAdams but Vaughn... I think he's been away from "serious" acting for too long... the lines that fell flat were completely his fault in my very opinionated opinion.


Agree with these two statements.


----------



## Deco

TC1 said:


> Just a random musing. I thought Viagra was supposed to be a "little blue pill" not the pill a size of a horse tranquilizer that Taylor took :giggles:


 They come in many sizes.  I've seen a little blue pill and a much bigger one about the size they showed.  And I'm not throwing my hunk of Viking virility love under the bus by telling you this!!!  His 48 year old awesomeness needs an anti-viagara if anything .  My distant ex took viagara.


----------



## Moirai

Finally had time to watch it. Mixed feelings about it since none of the characters appeal to me but hopefully this will change (especially since I am in GoT hiatus and waiting for Fargo to start). Last season placed such a high bar so it will be interesting to see how well this season will do.


----------



## kemilia

lurkernomore said:


> I also want to check out the Brink and Ballers.


 
I've watched both; I liked Ballers (I have a relative in the NFL so there is a curiosity for me, I guess). The Brink was just too over-done. Maybe it is Jack Black, who is never subtle and irritates the heck outta me. Neither shows are must see, but they are entertainment for me, and I will catch them on my iPad.


----------



## Freckles1

I read some reviews that episode 3 is when we will be hooked!! Waiting....


----------



## Deco

Holy cow!  I did not recognize Rick Springfield until he took his glasses off. Creepy.


----------



## buzzytoes

Decophile said:


> Holy cow!  I did not recognize Rick Springfield until he took his glasses off. Creepy.



Is that who that was? I knew he looked familiar but couldn't figure it out.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> Holy cow!  I did not recognize Rick Springfield until he took his glasses off. Creepy.



Too much plastic surgery.  He must be on face lift #3.  I saw him 10-12 years ago at a restaurant and he had been lifted , but still looked like himself.


----------



## katran26

OK - fearful of spoilers, but that end scene? Yikes!


----------



## sthrncin

katran26 said:


> OK - fearful of spoilers, but that end scene? Yikes!




I know! Maybe he had a vest on? Maybe it wasn't a shell but rock salt or something that didn't kill him? Quite shocking. Last night really held my interest.


----------



## sthrncin

Decophile said:


> Holy cow!  I did not recognize Rick Springfield until he took his glasses off. Creepy.




Omg!!! Lol I had to go back and watch again to believe this was him! Ha is on general hospital from time to time and looks pretty good.


----------



## katran26

sthrncin said:


> I know! Maybe he had a vest on? Maybe it wasn't a shell but rock salt or something that didn't kill him? Quite shocking. Last night really held my interest.



Mine too! I'm really liking season 2. Also, I actually like Colin Farrell - seems like a lot of people hate him on here, lol. Although I'm really liking a serious Vince Vaughn. Good two episodes thus far!


----------



## sthrncin

katran26 said:


> Mine too! I'm really liking season 2. Also, I actually like Colin Farrell - seems like a lot of people hate him on here, lol. Although I'm really liking a serious Vince Vaughn. Good two episodes thus far!




Me too, both of them are doing a great job! I really like Vince in this dark role.


----------



## katran26

sthrncin said:


> Me too, both of them are doing a great job! I really like Vince in this dark role.


----------



## lucywife

I don't know how and if it was related to one another, there was an owl (?) figurine in the car with dead Casper (?) and last night Colin Farrell's character was shot by someone wearing a giant raven's head. What's up with that?


----------



## Deco

I was stunned by the ending.  Was Nic pulling a George RR Martin and unceremoniously killing off a major protagonist?  And in episode 2??  But I got hopeful with the previous of next week's show. Colin's boss (all these Brits do such a good job with American accents!) says that he's involved now because one of his men was shot.  He didn't say killed, so I'm clinging to that.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> Too much plastic surgery.  He must be on face lift #3.  I saw him 10-12 years ago at a restaurant and he had been lifted , but still looked like himself.


 Yes, he looks terribly altered and overall "plastic".  He looked way better a few years ago in Californication.  Now he looks ghoulish, also too thin.


----------



## Deco

katran26 said:


> Mine too! I'm really liking season 2. Also, I actually like Colin Farrell - seems like a lot of people hate him on here, lol. Although I'm really liking a serious Vince Vaughn. Good two episodes thus far!


 I like Colin too.  I think he carries some baggage from prior movies/off screen antics and has cultivated a reputation as self-important douche.  But he's very good in this role.  I'm not impressed with Vince, though.  He seems to be "acting" and so far is not believable to me in this role.  Could also be the direction.  Scrunching up his eyeglasses in the car was super lame acting (but could be directing). I was also unmoved by his retelling of getting locked in the basement.


----------



## lucywife

Did anyone catch it when Rachel McAdams said that out of 5 kids, two were dead, two in prison, and one became a detective meaning herself obviously-her porn performing sister from the first episode is not dead and not in prison, who is she talking about then? I'm lost.
Also, could Taylor's character be gay and hiding it from himself? That will explain the gigantic Viagra pill, him running away from his girlfriend, his creepy mother with her inappropriate comments adding to the possible issues he may have. This is the most frustrating show of all times.


----------



## buzzytoes

I feel like I should be taking notes during every episode because there is just so much that could be a clue.


----------



## gracekelly

buzzytoes said:


> I feel like I should be taking notes during every episode because there is just so much that could be a clue.



Really!  How about that bird mask!  Shades of series #1.  Pizzolatto is taking a lot of heat on this one and that the writing is not that good.  Perhaps he is a one trick pony?  

I have to rewatch because I missed the beginning.

Yes, where does the porn sister fit into this unless they jailed her?  What the heck went on at that commune that all these kids are so screwed up?

I like Vince Vaughn in this because he is acting serious.  It's a change for him.


----------



## buzzytoes

I am liking this season better so far. Maybe because I was not a fan of the flashbacks in season one. I am not an overall fan of Vince Vaughn but I think he is doing just fine, I don't understand the criticism of his acting. 

I thought maybe there was something to be said for the detective being named Antigone (my dog's name growing up  ) and her sister Athena but didn't see much in the way of mythology that would apply to the story. Unless all of those five kids were siblings.


----------



## Deco

lucywife said:


> Did anyone catch it when Rachel McAdams said that out of 5 kids, two were dead, two in prison, and one became a detective meaning herself obviously-her porn performing sister from the first episode is not dead and not in prison, who is she talking about then? I'm lost.
> Also, could Taylor's character be gay and hiding it from himself? That will explain the gigantic Viagra pill, him running away from his girlfriend, his creepy mother with her inappropriate comments adding to the possible issues he may have. This is the most frustrating show of all times.


 The mom was totally inappropriate.  I'm worried though that Pizzolatto will be peppering this season with a bajillion "clues" or insights that end up not shedding any light or being remotely relevant to either character development or plot.  That was the worst thing about last season which was otherwise so awesome.  So many hints thrown in, so many weird angles on things, all of which we thought were going to come into play somehow and explain either who some character is or what's going to happen, and none of it amounted to a hill of beans.  Tons of loose strings were left flapping while we obsessed about them all season.  If last season is any indication, Pizzolatto throws in little vignettes and oddities just for disjointed artistic texture in the moment.  Here we are already noting every clue and trying to keep them straight to follow the plot.  But lets remember from what we learned last season that these clues could be nothing.  The blue pill could be nothing, the inappropriate mom could be nothing, Antigone watching porn could be nothing, her sister being a porn performer could be nothing.  I'm guilty of clue/oddity spotting and cataloguing.  I'm just trying to remind myself that this writer doesn't edit like most storytellers do.


----------



## Freckles1

Holy cow! Just watched episode 2. I like it. I like all of the characters. I think everyone but Vince is great. 
I know Colin was in town last summer taking in hot yoga classes and he was very lovely and kind to the others in the classes - even stayed after and spoke with several fans. 
I'm thinking he must have a vest on too.... No blood that I saw.....
I like The scenes with Rachel and Colin


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> The mom was totally inappropriate.  I'm worried though that Pizzolatto will be peppering this season with a bajillion "clues" or insights that end up not shedding any light or being remotely relevant to either character development or plot.  That was the worst thing about last season which was otherwise so awesome.  So many hints thrown in, so many weird angles on things, all of which we thought were going to come into play somehow and explain either who some character is or what's going to happen, and none of it amounted to a hill of beans.  Tons of loose strings were left flapping while we obsessed about them all season.  If last season is any indication, Pizzolatto throws in little vignettes and oddities just for disjointed artistic texture in the moment.  Here we are already noting every clue and trying to keep them straight to follow the plot.  But lets remember from what we learned last season that these clues could be nothing.  The blue pill could be nothing, the inappropriate mom could be nothing, Antigone watching porn could be nothing, her sister being a porn performer could be nothing.  I'm guilty of clue/oddity spotting and cataloguing.  I'm just trying to remind myself that this writer doesn't edit like most storytellers do.



This is so true.  Last year it was Audrey and her drawing the pictures of nude stick figures.  we debated about that endlessly and it wasn't even addressed at the end.  Is this a case of fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me?


----------



## PeggyOlson1

I think Paul is gay too. But not sure that will be addressed. 

That final scene was crazy creepy. 

I like Season 2 so far. The opening credits, same as S1- so cool.


----------



## JetSetGo!

gracekelly said:


> I tried to watch it again last night, but my Colin Farrell dislike made me turn the channel.  Ugh!  Can't stand him!  How did this guy get so successful in Hollywood?  He is a terrible actor!




You might just like it after ep 2 then... :ninja:


----------



## Moirai

That was a good episode. I think Vaughn is the weakest of the three actors. He's not very convincing. On the other hand, Farrell is able to create a scary character who looks like he's going to explode any minute. Was he at a turning point when he refused the money from Vaughn and confided with Mcadams?


----------



## Moirai

PeggyOlson1 said:


> I think Paul is gay too. But not sure that will be addressed.
> 
> That final scene was crazy creepy.
> 
> I like Season 2 so far. The opening credits, same as S1- so cool.



I like the opening too. The song has a great beat, very catchy.


----------



## GaudyGirl

lucywife said:


> Also, could Taylor's character be gay and hiding it from himself? That will explain the gigantic Viagra pill, him running away from his girlfriend, his creepy mother with her inappropriate comments adding to the possible issues he may have. This is the most frustrating show of all times.


 
I was feeling that too when he went out of his way to make the comment about the "fagg*t at the bank hitting on him". Me thinks he protests too much.


----------



## lucywife

GaudyGirl said:


> I was feeling that too when he went out of his way to make the comment about the "fagg*t at the bank hitting on him". Me thinks he protests too much.


Or ogling a guy (looked like a hooker to me) who was getting out of the car across the hotel where they are staying. 
But I have to agree with Decophile's comment, we are probably (at least I am) reading into it too much, just like in the first season. Have to remember that this is fiction and nothing else.


----------



## lurkernomore

caught up on episode 2 last night. I am wondering if the final scene was more of a message for Colin's character or Vince's....


----------



## gracekelly

JetSetGo! said:


> You might just like it after ep 2 then... :ninja:



Do they kill him off lol?  I rewatched last night and I just can not get into this. I will give it one more epi since the say that #3 is the bomb.


----------



## JetSetGo!

gracekelly said:


> Do they kill him off lol?  I rewatched last night and I just can not get into this. I will give it one more epi since the say that #3 is the bomb.



I guess we'll see in ep 3. I wouldn't put it past them.

I'm struggling a bit too. Too many characters, too self-indulgent and trying so hard. It feels like this season is being dark and moody and sad for the sake of being dark and moody and sad. I hate to give up on it just yet, but I can't help but be reminded on John From Cincinnati. I watched it from start to finish on pure trust that David Milch would pull through with the magic he created in Deadwood (the show I thought was the best drama to ever air on TV before TD came along). But the season ended with a big, fat nothing. It was utter sh*t. I am hoping this season TD pulls through, but so far they've given us almost nothing to feel connected to and no one to even give a crap about. Maybe Taylor's character comes the closest. 

The first run of TD was so amazing in every way - the writing, the acting, the production. I have honestly watched it more than 10 times over now. Every viewing offers deeper insight and respect of the work. It was authentically difficult in a lot of ways, but also very funny in the characters' opposing personalities. There were even many laugh out loud moments. Both Marty and Rust were likable even in their flaws. There was a sweetness in the horror. 

Right now, it feels like season one was Pizzolatto's life's work and this season had to be invented in 6 weeks. If that's the case they should have left TD as a mini and let it exist on its own &#8211; perfection over and out.


----------



## gracekelly

JetSetGo! said:


> I guess we'll see in ep 3. I wouldn't put it past them.
> 
> I'm struggling a bit too. Too many characters, too self-indulgent and trying so hard. It feels like this season is being dark and moody and sad for the sake of being dark and moody and sad. I hate to give up on it just yet, but I can't help but be reminded on John From Cincinnati. I watched it from start to finish on pure trust that David Milch would pull through with the magic he created in Deadwood (the show I thought was the best drama to ever air on TV before TD came along). But the season ended with a big, fat nothing. It was utter sh*t. I am hoping this season TD pulls through, but so far they've given us almost nothing to feel connected to and no one to even give a crap about. Maybe Taylor's character comes the closest.
> 
> The first run of TD was so amazing in every way - the writing, the acting, the production. I honest have to have watched it more than 10 times over now. Every view offers deeper insight and respect of the work. It was authentically difficult in a lot of ways, but also very funny in the characters' opposing personalities. There were even many laugh out loud moments. Both Marty and Rust were likable even in their flaws. There was a sweetness in the horror.
> 
> Right now, it feels like season one was Pizzolatto's life's work and this season had to be invented in 6 weeks. If that's the case they should have left TD as a mini and let it exist on its own &#8211; perfection over and out.



Season One was fantastic and I have rewatched as well.  Even the song was better!

I think he is trying too hard and it is falling flat.


----------



## Freckles1

Ladies don't give up just yet!!!!!


----------



## Deco

JetSetGo! said:


> I guess we'll see in ep 3. I wouldn't put it past them.
> 
> I'm struggling a bit too. Too many characters, too self-indulgent and trying so hard. It feels like this season is being dark and moody and sad for the sake of being dark and moody and sad. I hate to give up on it just yet, but I can't help but be reminded on John From Cincinnati. I watched it from start to finish on pure trust that David Milch would pull through with the magic he created in Deadwood (the show I thought was the best drama to ever air on TV before TD came along). But the season ended with a big, fat nothing. It was utter sh*t. I am hoping this season TD pulls through, but so far they've given us almost nothing to feel connected to and no one to even give a crap about. Maybe Taylor's character comes the closest.
> 
> The first run of TD was so amazing in every way - the writing, the acting, the production. I have honestly watched it more than 10 times over now. Every viewing offers deeper insight and respect of the work. It was authentically difficult in a lot of ways, but also very funny in the characters' opposing personalities. There were even many laugh out loud moments. Both Marty and Rust were likable even in their flaws. There was a sweetness in the horror.
> 
> Right now, it feels like season one was Pizzolatto's life's work and this season had to be invented in 6 weeks. If that's the case they should have left TD as a mini and let it exist on its own &#8211; perfection over and out.


 I agree with all of this.  Except that I thought the first season finale was a monumental let down.  I was spitting bile and venom I was so pissed by that ending.  AND YET.  The crappy ending didn't detract from how utterly mesmerizing and moving the rest of the season was for me, and just how much I loved and still love that season.  I can never look at Matthew and Woody the same again, given the strong and fond imprint their characters left.  

You are so right about the elements missing this time.  I too feel like the dark and brooding and each-character-being-super-messed-up is coming across formulaic, and without the levity and humor last season had.  To this day one of my favorite lines is Rust's dry delivery to Marty that "people incapable of guilt usually do have a good time".  I laughed so hard I almost busted a rib.  I think there was an attempt at humor when Colin told Rachel that he supports feminism mainly by having body image issues, but it fell flat.

And I too have wondered how Pizzolatto can live up to season one when this time he has to write a whole season on a confined schedule.  I need to make an effort to absorb this season without comparing it to the last, because that's an impossible act to follow.  But I do ask myself if I'd even be watching this season had it not been for the last.  My guess is probably not.


----------



## coolgrandma

Every time Vince Vaughn walked last episode, he reminded me of Frankenstein. Very stiff and forced. I like him, but not in this role. Colin Farrell is not dead. Why hire a big  name just to kill him off?  I agree with one of the above posts, I think it will be like last year - little  details we think will mean something end up being nothing.


----------



## Deco

And on a frivolous side note, Taylor and Rachel are apparently dating in real life.


----------



## rdgldy

JetSetGo! said:


> You might just like it after ep 2 then... :ninja:


haha!!!
I am definitely liking it more as it continues.  I was not happy about the above!


----------



## PeggyOlson1

I also think that Vince is the weak link in the show. I was thinking maybe they cast him in the hopes of replicating what happened with Woody. But Woody was always good, even in comedy. Vince is a bit one-dimensional.


----------



## Freckles1

Just read a great article in Rachel. Sounds as though she's got a lot of funks coming out soon. She sounds very grounded and close with her family. Her sister is her make up artist!! I think they may live together and are very "green" 
She sounds like a cool chick!


----------



## Deco

PeggyOlson1 said:


> I also think that Vince is the weak link in the show. I was thinking maybe they cast him in the hopes of replicating what happened with Woody. But Woody was always good, even in comedy. Vince is a bit one-dimensional.



I agree.  I have the hardest time accepting Vince in this particular role, not necessarily in this show as a whole.  He can't carry the hardened, complex career criminal.  He's got height galore, but no presence.  You have to have a menacing presence to pull off this role.  All I see is a tall, unsure teddy bearish character who (yes, as a previous poster noted) lumbers around like a flat footed Frankenstein.  As though there was any other variety


----------



## Brandless

I can't seem to stay awake while watching this show. It's the third episode and I still fell asleep in the middle of the episode.


----------



## Deco

Yeah, I started doing the dishes.  This is the legendary third espisode where things get interesting?   And some seriously horrible writing in this epi.


----------



## deltalady

It was definitely more action packed this episode. I guess it was confirmed that Taylor's character is struggling with his sexuality. I had a feeling his friend was more than a friend at one time. I actually sympathize with Colin's character even though he's a real douchebag. I think this was enough for me to keep watching.


----------



## Freckles1

Yep the critics all said episode 3 would "hook us". Not sure about that. I do like that Colin and Rachel's characters are starting to become more "connected" Taylor's character needs to get more interesting for me. He is eye candy, but I need more! He absolutely had a fling with his pal in the desert!
Vince sucks. Sorry. I like him, but not in this role


----------



## lucywife

I sympathize with Colin's character as well. His coming back to life running and jumping like nothing happen seem like one of those cinema miracles when a good hero kills five bad guys with just one bullet.


----------



## buzzytoes

I feel like there is too much going on this season for me to keep track of. Last season it was find who murdered the girl, and they think Rust might have done it. This season is find who killed Casper, or who is after Vince Vaughn, or what does the State have on Colin Ferrel, or who is Catalyst. I can't figure out wtf I am supposed to be trying to figure out!


----------



## Freckles1

Who the heck was the guy who was killed? Vince's friend? Was he the attorney?


----------



## Freckles1

buzzytoes said:


> I feel like there is too much going on this season for me to keep track of. Last season it was find who murdered the girl, and they think Rust might have done it. This season is find who killed Casper, or who is after Vince Vaughn, or what does the State have on Colin Ferrel, or who is Catalyst. I can't figure out wtf I am supposed to be trying to figure out!




Yes!!


----------



## Deco

What I'm struggling with most this season is giving a damn.  With the exception of Colin's character, I don't much care about anyone else, and there's too much that I'm already finding absurd.

1.  I don't care who killed Casper, and care even less who's trying to off Vince.  Bunch of criminals killing each other off doesn't interest me.  There's no real victim here that I'm wanting justice for.

2.  Why is Taylor's struggle with his sexuality a plot line?  Seems gratuitous and fitting nowhere in the larger scheme.

3.  Speaking of gratuitous, making us all think Colin was dead at the end of last episode only to have him pop back up at the beginning of this one makes is a cheap shot.  Why was it necessary for us to have that pointless one episode cliffhanger?   Nic sure likes his shortcuts to nowhere.

4.  And here's another gratuitous shortcut:  let's sprinkle about pictures of the most heinous, deformed, and corrupt so-called pillars of society (the Vinci Mayor in this case) photographed with ********** presidents.  Last season it was the murderous pedophile corrupt head of the school.  Because it's not enough that these people are utterly vile and corrupt.  They are also **********, which to Nic is even worse.  Yeah, I get it.  You hate **********s.  Now move on.

5.  The Vinci Mayor is such an extreme, shameless caricature of corruption and evil to be beyond belief, making him more of a comic book character than detective drama character.

6.  Cross between anaconda and great white?  uggghhhhhhh.


----------



## TC1

I REALLY REALLY want to like this show....but it's seriously lacking!!. Last season was so amazing and this season has all the acting chops...but just no decent storyline so far.


----------



## gracekelly

I just can't multiquote all of the above posts, so I will just say that I agree with each of you regarding episode 3.  The only character I like and the only one with real cajones is Rachel McAdams.    I have never seen her do anything like this before.  She was just great in the movie About Time and played a polar opposite type of character.

BTW, if you looked closely at the Ray's ex-wife, her hair is auburn.  Is that a little red herring they are throwing at us?  However, I still don't think Ray is the father.

The one thing that stuck out at me was the dialogue, especially from Vince Vaughn.  I had this deja vu that I was watching an episode of Deadwood and it was Al Swearengen doing the talking.  Is Pizzolatto copying Milch or paying him a tribute?  To have the character of Frank spout "there&#8217;s a certain stridency at work here&#8230;&#8221; &#8220;I&#8217;m apoplectic&#8230;&#8221;  Where the heck does a thug like Frank come up with something like this?  It is like Shakespeare for criminals.  All this does is make for very stilted dialogue and it sounds stupid IMO.

The best line was "the mayor of Vinci lives in Bel Air?"


----------



## JetSetGo!

Is it bad when you are disappointed when your lead gets up from the dead?

This season is doing no justice to last season. At. All.
I'm agreeing with ALL of you &#8211;*I really don't give a crap about anyone really. 
Taylor, Rachel and Colin are only mildly intriguing. Vince leaves me totally cold. 
There is zero joy in this show. It's so heavy handed, while it was every detail and subtlety that made last season genius.


----------



## Megs

I have fallen asleep during each episode. This season is a struggle to stay awake to watch it, and it's just totally meh. Agree with so many of you on it, I don't care about any of them really.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> The one thing that stuck out at me was the dialogue, especially from Vince Vaughn.  I had this deja vu that I was watching an episode of Deadwood and it was Al Swearengen doing the talking.  Is Pizzolatto copying Milch or paying him a tribute?  To have the character of Frank spout "theres a certain stridency at work here Im apoplectic  Where the heck does a thug like Frank come up with something like this?  It is like Shakespeare for criminals.  All this does is make for very stilted dialogue and it sounds stupid IMO.


 Swearengen's delivery was always so brilliant.  And the juxtaposition of Swearengen's character, the time and place, his delivery, and the actual words spoken was interestingly jolting.  I agree in this case it just sounds stupid and contrived.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Decophile said:


> Swearengen's delivery was always so brilliant.  And the juxtaposition of Swearengen's character, the time and place, his delivery, and the actual words spoken was interestingly jolting.  I agree in this case it just sounds stupid and contrived.




And always with that joyful wink even in his terror. He was a character that you couldn't help but love despite his nefarious dealings.


----------



## gracekelly

JetSetGo! said:


> And always with that joyful wink even in his terror. He was a character that you couldn't help but love despite his nefarious dealings.



It worked on Deadwood because the actors were so much better and Al wasn't the only one speaking like that.  The writing was better  and consistent too.  I think ol' Nick is a one trick pony and his director last year Cary Fukunaga made all the difference.  Apparently Pizzolatto and Fukunaga were battling during season 1 and I can only wonder if it turned out so well because the direction was so much better.


----------



## JetSetGo!

gracekelly said:


> It worked on Deadwood because the actors were so much better and Al wasn't the only one speaking like that.  The writing was better  and consistent too.  I think ol' Nick is a one trick pony and his director last year Cary Fukunaga made all the difference.  Apparently Pizzolatto and Fukunaga were battling during season 1 and I can only wonder if it turned out so well because the direction was so much better.



Could be. I don't know anything about Pizzolatto. I just know that S1 was written and executed perfectly &#8211; as was Deadwood.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> It worked on Deadwood because the actors were so much better and Al wasn't the only one speaking like that.  The writing was better  and consistent too.  I think ol' Nick is a one trick pony and his director last year Cary Fukunaga made all the difference.  Apparently Pizzolatto and Fukunaga were battling during season 1 and I can only wonder if it turned out so well because the direction was so much better.


This, all the way.


----------



## Deco

JetSetGo! said:


> And always with that joyful wink even in his terror. He was a character that you couldn't help but love despite his nefarious dealings.


So true.  Swearengen was so likeable despite being a ruthless criminal.


----------



## rdgldy

I sadly have to agree with everyone here-it just is not True Detective of last year.  The only good part of this is that I do not have to be conflicted when Ray Donovan returns next Sunday.  They were on at the same time-makes my decision a no-brainer!!


----------



## Freckles1

rdgldy said:


> I sadly have to agree with everyone here-it just is not True Detective of last year.  The only good part of this is that I do not have to be conflicted when Ray Donovan returns next Sunday.  They were on at the same time-makes my decision a no-brainer!!




Oh Ray!!! Bring it!!! I will dvr TD


----------



## Deco

Aaaah, let's reminisce about the good ole days of glorious season 1.  What was served up to us in episode 4 was that 6 minute uninterrupted single track take, led by Rust while he was drugged out of his mind after an extended binge session.  When it was over, I was stunned and out of breath, my spent body ready to slide right off the sofa in exhaustion.  What are the odds the next episode will live up to that?  Though Fukunaga deserves the credit for that scene, not Pizzolatto, and he's not involved this season.  By comparison, I felt zero tension in the scene where Vince is confronting a bunch of pimping gang members.  I cringed when Vince pried the guy's gold grill saying that's no way to greet people.


----------



## LavenderIce

Decophile said:


> Aaaah, let's reminisce about the good ole days of glorious season 1.  What was served up to us in episode 4 was that 6 minute uninterrupted single track take, led by Rust while he was drugged out of his mind after an extended binge session.  When it was over, I was stunned and out of breath, my spent body ready to slide right off the sofa in exhaustion.  What are the odds the next episode will live up to that?  Though Fukunaga deserves the credit for that scene, not Pizzolatto, and he's not involved this season.  By comparison, I felt zero tension in the scene where Vince is confronting a bunch of pimping gang members.  I cringed when Vince pried the guy's gold grill saying that's no way to greet people.




I actually felt last night's chase scene between Rachel McAdams and Colin Farrel and the masked guy was a throwback to that scene in Season 1 and it (much like the rest of this season) fell short.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Decophile said:


> Aaaah, let's reminisce about the good ole days of glorious season 1.  What was served up to us in episode 4 was that 6 minute uninterrupted single track take, led by Rust while he was drugged out of his mind after an extended binge session.  When it was over, I was stunned and out of breath, my spent body ready to slide right off the sofa in exhaustion.  What are the odds the next episode will live up to that?  Though Fukunaga deserves the credit for that scene, not Pizzolatto, and he's not involved this season.  By comparison, I felt zero tension in the scene where Vince is confronting a bunch of pimping gang members.  I cringed when Vince pried the guy's gold grill saying that's no way to greet people.



Oh the memories...

Detective: "And what type were you?"

Marty:       "Oh, I was just the regular type dude... with a big @ss d*ck."


----------



## Jeneen

I just cannot get into this season at all.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> Aaaah, let's reminisce about the good ole days of glorious season 1.  What was served up to us in episode 4 was that 6 minute uninterrupted single track take, led by Rust while he was drugged out of his mind after an extended binge session.  When it was over, I was stunned and out of breath, my spent body ready to slide right off the sofa in exhaustion.  What are the odds the next episode will live up to that?  Though Fukunaga deserves the credit for that scene, not Pizzolatto, and he's not involved this season.  By comparison, I felt zero tension in the scene where Vince is confronting a bunch of pimping gang members.  I cringed when Vince pried the guy's gold grill saying that's no way to greet people.



Your words have me heading to On Demand tonight to re-watch for the 4-5th time.  That series was a cinematic work of art.  I think I am going to give all that credit to the director and the stuff that bugged me with the plot holes i.e. Audrey etc I am going to blame on Nick.


----------



## PeggyOlson1

I read too that episode 3 was going to be the "hook" but sadly, I thought it's the worst episode so far. It's just hard to follow and hard to feel intrigued because you guys are right-- I don't feel sorry for anyone. Maybe Ray a little bit. And I feel like there's too much time spent on backstories, not enough on any detective work really. 

Also read somewhere that what if this is like Mulholland Drive? It's not impossible but come on, that's an even cheaper shot.

Last season was just so seamless and effortless. I missed it so much, I spent Saturday watching the entire thing lol.

The only thing that I think Season 2 is better at is the opening credits, including the song.


----------



## Moirai

Agree with everyone. Disappointing. Only interest I have at this point is Farrell's character. I don't get the point of Taylor's character's sexuality issue in all this.


----------



## Freckles1

I think Colin and Rachel could have good chemistry - like Woody and Matthew. Watching the 3rd episode again as I write this. Could give a **** about Taylor's or Vince's characters. Ugh


----------



## gracekelly

Moirai said:


> Agree with everyone. Disappointing. Only interest I have at this point is Farrell's character. I don't get the point of Taylor's character's sexuality issue in all this.



I know.  His acting is horrid too.



Freckles1 said:


> I think Colin and Rachel could have good chemistry - like Woody and Matthew. Watching the 3rd episode again as I write this. Could give a **** about Taylor's or Vince's characters. Ugh



+1  Why are we watching this dreck?


----------



## lurkernomore

I always get caught up a day late. I will keep watching but just want more out of the main characters.....


----------



## dr.pepper

Wow tough crowd!

I like this season. It is def not season 1, but what could possibly stand up to that? That was among the best TV content of our generation IMHO and cannot be reproduced. 

I wouldn't say I love any of these characters but I feel we've learned a lot about each of our mains in the mere three hours we've see thus far. Hell, a lot of shows do not give us that much backstory in entire seasons! 

I don't find Taylor to be bad at all! [emoji85] I have a feeling his sexuality/relationship with a man may be his in to learn more about Caspere's antics.


----------



## Zookzik

.


----------



## lucywife

Freckles1 said:


> I think Colin and Rachel could have good chemistry - like Woody and Matthew. Watching the 3rd episode again as I write this. Could give a **** about Taylor's or Vince's characters. Ugh


Yes, I feel the same way, there is some substance to Rachel and Colin' characters. At least.
What is Taylor's problem btw? he runs around all flustered and pissed like he's the only one with real problems, annoying. 
Vince seems like a random choice to me.
Animal heads on the wall must be representing the same cult that was hunting kids for the rituals in season 1.


----------



## Moirai

Lots of bodies down! That last action scene woke me up!


----------



## PeggyOlson1

Finally!!!! Great action sequence tonight.


----------



## sthrncin

Yes! Great show last night!


----------



## Love4H

Watching an episode 4 right now. 
Boooooooring.


----------



## gracekelly

I completely forgot to watch it last night,  Goes to how my interest level in this show.


----------



## Deco

You didn't miss much.  Other than more annoyance, horrible writing/acting, plot slowly oozing in all directions like thick molasses, and a random, non-sequitur protracted shoot out at the end to make you think something is actually happening and the show is finally getting interesting, whereas neither happened.

Sorry to be such a downer among my friends here who are enjoying this show.  It's doing nothing for me and that's frustrating.

Vince delivers his monotone lines like a string of decapitated words falling from a guillotine's blade.


----------



## Love4H

The end of the 4th episode - wow. Finally some action! Loooots of it!


----------



## lucywife

not impressed with the fairytale-ish ending of this episode even though it woke me up. Three musketeers emerged from the blood bath without a scratch. It's a miracle.
I figured how Colin survived episode 2 when we was shot at point blank - his big aura saved him!


----------



## coolgrandma

Sooo disappointed with this show!  Nothing like last year at all. I like all of the actors, but they are all doing a terrible job. Same expressions in every shot, every show!  I will stick with it, but there is really no suspense and I have no sympathy for any of them. Fear this may be the last year for this show!


----------



## Deco

I noticed that Fukunaga is still involved this season, but as executive producer.  Hmmmm.

They're not doing the post-episode discussion with Nic and the directors after each On Demand version of the episode.  I watched all those voraciously last season.   Interesting that they stopped doing it this season.  It's almost like they themselves aren't so impressed with it and don't want to be put on the stand to talk about it.


----------



## gracekelly

I was so interested by this episode that I fell asleep.  Did they all take cardboard pills to make they act to flat?


----------



## gracekelly

Came back to say that I watched it and stayed awake this time.  It wasn't as bad as the previous ones, but that had to be the highest body count in a copy drama in forever!


----------



## littlerock

Decophile said:


> You didn't miss much.  Other than more annoyance, horrible writing/acting, plot slowly oozing in all directions like thick molasses, and a random, non-sequitur protracted shoot out at the end to make you think something is actually happening and the show is finally getting interesting, whereas neither happened.
> 
> Sorry to be such a downer among my friends here who are enjoying this show.  It's doing nothing for me and that's frustrating.
> 
> Vince delivers his monotone lines like a string of decapitated words falling from a guillotine's blade.



My DH and I haven't gotten past the first 20 minutes of episode one. And we loved the first season, aside form the ending. Total let down!


----------



## Vlad

I can't get myself to watch S02E04. So painfully boring, everyone's so miserable and sad. Another episode down, we discover more misery and sadness.

Oh wait, another character is uncovered to be miserable and sad.

Shocker.


----------



## Love4H

Vlad, wait until the end, my friend. 
More people will be miserable but in a very action fulfilled way.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

DH dozed off during episode 3.


----------



## Freckles1

I recently read the Vanity Fair article about Nic. He reminds me of someone who has to use "big" words to make himself sound smart. He comes off as an idiot of course. Thinking the first season was so good because he has actually drawn on his childhood and his book. AND he had other writing help. 
That shoutout was insane. 
I will keep watching because I want to watch the chemistry between the actors. I really do like seeing Colin becoming the level headed one. Interesting.


----------



## katran26

I wasn't a big fan of season one to be really honest. It just dragged way too much for me...didn't end up even finishing it.

Season two started off with more action, but I'm kind of losing interest again.

We'll see if tonight can remedy that...


----------



## katran26

vlad said:


> i can't get myself to watch s02e04. So painfully boring, everyone's so miserable and sad. Another episode down, we discover more misery and sadness.
> 
> Oh wait, another character is uncovered to be miserable and sad.
> 
> Shocker.




ha!!


----------



## Vlad

Love4H said:


> Vlad, wait until the end, my friend.
> 
> More people will be miserable but in a very action fulfilled way.




That was fulfilling indeed, intensely brutal shootout. 

Misery and sadness peaked!


----------



## deltalady

Watching now. I really do not like Colin's characters ex wife.


----------



## Freckles1

I think the critics screwed up in their episode count. Tonight's episode (5)?might be the hook.  Great great episode I thought!! We starting to get juicy!!!!


----------



## Moirai

Only 3 episodes left!


----------



## sthrncin

Good episode last night, kept me glued to the screen.


----------



## merc_g

sthrncin said:


> Good episode last night, kept me glued to the screen.




+1

The best episode thus far!


----------



## TC1

FINALLY!!. A great episode!!. There are only 3 left??, urgh. A lot to wrap up in only 3 episodes. I must say I roll my eyes when the same girl is singing in the bar every damn time.


----------



## Freckles1

TC1 said:


> FINALLY!!. A great episode!!. There are only 3 left??, urgh. A lot to wrap up in only 3 episodes. I must say I roll my eyes when the same girl is singing in the bar every damn time.




Lord I am SO tired of her. Ugh TBone, come on!!


----------



## Vlad

I second what everyone said, best episode yet. Things are finally picking up in pace, but we have only three episodes left? Kicking s*** into overdrive!


----------



## gracekelly

Jeez! Finally! Getting somewhere with this plot.  I thought the scene with Rick Springfield was great!  At least this is making some sense.   Though I would love to know in what fairy tale life a shrink has a second career as a plastic surgeon.  More likely it is the other way around.  Ahh...fiction!

I had higher hopes for Frank, but now that we know that he set up Ray, his bad guy genes are popping up.  His wife had three "operations?"  Is that the new euphemism for abortion?  She has been lying to him more than he has lied to her.  

What if the paternity test shows that the rapist is not the father either?   Was Mrs Ex-Ray fooling around?


----------



## deltalady

gracekelly said:


> Jeez! Finally! Getting somewhere with this plot.  I thought the scene with Rick Springfield was great!  At least this is making some sense.   Though I would love to know in what fairy tale life a shrink has a second career as a plastic surgeon.  More likely it is the other way around.  Ahh...fiction!
> 
> I had higher hopes for Frank, but now that we know that he set up Ray, his bad guy genes are popping up.  His wife had three "operations?"  Is that the new euphemism for abortion?  She has been lying to him more than he has lied to her.
> 
> What if the paternity test shows that the rapist is not the father either?   Was Mrs Ex-Ray fooling around?



I really want it to say that Ray is the father because as messed up as he is, she just seems like such a witch to try to deny him any rights.


----------



## gracekelly

deltalady said:


> I really want it to say that Ray is the father because as messed up as he is, she just seems like such a witch to try to deny him any rights.



I am thinking more and more that she cheated and she knows who the real father is.  She told him that his killing the presumed rapist ruined their marriage.  Perhaps it was her guilt more than what Ray did that ruined it.


----------



## sthrncin

Lol he beat the shi* out of Rick and his fake face!!! That was great!


----------



## sarahloveslouis

I'm definitely waiting until the series is over to binge-watch.


----------



## lucywife

gracekelly said:


> She told him that his killing the presumed rapist ruined their marriage.  Perhaps it was her guilt more than what Ray did that ruined it.


 her whole attitude towards him is weird. Yes, he lost his mind tried to protect her with everything he had, what is she punishing him for? 

The bar signing is a scene from the worst nightmare imaginable.


----------



## Love4H

I have to re watch it again and again. I'm not following the plot at all. So confusing.


----------



## gracekelly

lucywife said:


> her whole attitude towards him is weird. Yes, he lost his mind tried to protect her with everything he had, what is she punishing him for?
> 
> The bar signing is a scene from the worst nightmare imaginable.



I think the bar is purgatory.


----------



## lucywife

gracekelly said:


> I think the bar is purgatory.


 great analogy!


----------



## Freckles1

gracekelly said:


> I think the bar is purgatory.




Ooohhh I like it!


----------



## TC1

Makes sense!!. awful singing and the waitress with the facial burn scars.


----------



## Moirai

Ray is kind to her. She has a thing for him.


----------



## Moirai

gracekelly said:


> Jeez! Finally! Getting somewhere with this plot.  I thought the scene with Rick Springfield was great!  At least this is making some sense.   Though I would love to know in what fairy tale life a shrink has a second career as a plastic surgeon.  More likely it is the other way around.  Ahh...fiction!
> 
> I had higher hopes for Frank, but now that we know that he set up Ray, his bad guy genes are popping up.  His wife had three "operations?"  Is that the new euphemism for abortion?  She has been lying to him more than he has lied to her.
> 
> What if the paternity test shows that the rapist is not the father either?   Was Mrs Ex-Ray fooling around?



Didn't realize that was Springfield. Sure looks different.


----------



## buzzytoes

I feel like they could have skipped like three episodes and still arrived at this point. Glad they are finally getting somewhere!


----------



## Cornflower Blue

gracekelly said:


> I think the bar is purgatory.



Like it! Some of the singing scenes remind me of those in David Lynch's 'Blue Velvet', 'Twin Peaks' and 'Eraserhead' for some reason??


----------



## Cornflower Blue

buzzytoes said:


> I feel like they could have skipped like three episodes and still arrived at this point. Glad they are finally getting somewhere!



Totally agree!


----------



## gracekelly

buzzytoes said:


> I feel like they could have skipped like three episodes and still arrived at this point. Glad they are finally getting somewhere!



They could have done this entire thing in a 2 hour movie.


----------



## deltalady

That episode was creepy!


----------



## Freckles1

Holy **** that was good!!


----------



## Moirai

Good episode! Two left - that went by quick.  Best acting by Vaughn was the scene consoling the kid. It was touching.


----------



## merc_g

Moirai said:


> Good episode! Two left - that went by quick.  Best acting by Vaughn was the scene consoling the kid. It was touching.




+1 His best acting thus far! 

This episode was great! I'm excited to see what ends up happening in the last 2 episodes.


----------



## TC1

I felt this episode was just "okay". I feel like after all this paternity build up we're still not going to find out who the father of Ray's kid is...


----------



## justwatchin

Seems like the last 2 episodes have had about 5-10 minutes of some action at the very end. How they are going to bring this altogether in 2 more episodes is beyond me.


----------



## gracekelly

TC1 said:


> I felt this episode was just "okay". I feel like after all this paternity build up we're still not going to find out who the father of Ray's kid is...



+1.  I expected much more.  I still think that the Mrs. Ex-Ray was cheatin' on him.  I do wish they would just put an end to that, but given Pizzolatto's track record, he could just leave us hanging. 

Ani's abuser...was he one of the guys in the picture?  There were several guys and they had beards.  Could this have been Mayor Chessani's father?  

That scene with Frank and the boy, was that to show that you too can turn your life around after your father dies and you can become a gangster?  Really, I could have lived without that.

So they blow the whistle and then what?  I don't think that Frank will be getting his money back.  He better rethink the idea of farming organic veggies.


----------



## Freckles1

Do you think Nic has a "part 2 " coming of this season? I agree that I don't believe this can be tied up in two more episodes..... We're there more episodes in the first season? Strange


----------



## gracekelly

After this disaster, NP will be lucky to get a 3rd season.  I think he was a one trick pony.  I presume he thinks that he was doing another character study as in Season 1.  The big difference is that the actors were so much better and really crafted the characters through their acting more than the writing.  These current actors are not up to that standard.  The only one who comes close is the actress playing Frank's wife.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> After this disaster, NP will be lucky to get a 3rd season.  I think he was a one trick pony.  I presume he thinks that he was doing another character study as in Season 1.  The big difference is that the actors were so much better and really crafted the characters through their acting more than the writing.  These current actors are not up to that standard.  The only one who comes close is the actress playing Frank's wife.



This.


----------



## Freckles1

gracekelly said:


> After this disaster, NP will be lucky to get a 3rd season.  I think he was a one trick pony.  I presume he thinks that he was doing another character study as in Season 1.  The big difference is that the actors were so much better and really crafted the characters through their acting more than the writing.  These current actors are not up to that standard.  The only one who comes close is the actress playing Frank's wife.




After reading that vanity fair article, I would say he is an absolute dope. Moron. Too cool for school.


----------



## Deco

Freckles1 said:


> After reading that vanity fair article, I would say he is an absolute dope. Moron. Too cool for school.


 what did it say?


----------



## Cornflower Blue

I'm going to stick my neck out here, but I like Vince Vaughn in this and think he makes quite a good tortured torturer. I think the acting in general is pretty OK, it's the writing that's at fault imo - the writer/s seem to lurch from one incident to the next. I think they've crammed too much in especially in the first 4 episodes. And then it's as if they all breathed a collective sigh of relief and were able to get on with it from episode 5 onwards. I am enjoying it (although it may not sound like it!).
I wonder what's with the birdman? Maybe he'll turn out to be some sort of revenger or someone trying to stop big business building over or destroying ancient burial/religious sites or something. Wonder if he's something to do with Ani's father and the commune. I'm sure I read an article ages ago that described this series as being something to do with the occult and transport system?


----------



## TC1

I'm not sure if it's the fact that there are 3 cops...each with a long backstory (that we've only seen pieces of) but I don't really feel and connection to any of them...not like Season 1 where you were so drawn in to the 2 main characters...this plot is all over the damn place with too many people playing too small of roles.


----------



## gracekelly

TC1 said:


> I'm not sure if it's the fact that there are 3 cops...each with a long backstory (that we've only seen pieces of) but I don't really feel and connection to any of them...not like Season 1 where you were so drawn in to the 2 main characters...this plot is all over the damn place with too many people playing too small of roles.



Exactly, plus they were partners which for cops is a very serious personal relationship.  These three were just thrown together.

I think the guy with the bird mask is waiting in the same place as Audrey's naked stick figures from Season 1.  Perhaps this is the NP version of the classic Hitchcock _macguffin._  All I can say about that is that people are more sophisticated now than they were 60+ years ago when Hitch did this.


----------



## Deco

^ is that a young Ian McShane in your avi?


I'm currently rewatching (for the 3rd time) Season 1 with my BF.  The gift that keeps on giving.  I love every single look, expression and mannerism, especially Rust's.  I don't tire of it.  Now that I'm not busy trying to piece clues together and wondering where things are going, I can just sit back and enjoy the story unfolding and the acting.  It's even better than I remembered.


I read something in Slate a while back that rang true to me.  It said that although the 4 main actors this season are pretty big names (and I'm still very impressed with Colin), their reputations/standing benefits from having True Detective rub off on them, whereas in Season 1 True Detective benefited from Matthew/Woody rubbing off in it.


----------



## TC1

Stolen diamonds/land deals/missing kidnapped girl/paternity/gay issues/comune/Bezaredes childhood drama. All the things they need to work into the storyline of the remaining 2 episodes?. Huh, good luck with that...of course I'll watch...


----------



## Deco

TC1 said:


> I'm not sure if it's the fact that there are 3 cops...each with a long backstory (that we've only seen pieces of) but I don't really feel and connection to any of them...not like Season 1 where you were so drawn in to the 2 main characters...this plot is all over the damn place with too many people playing too small of roles.


 JetSetGo said it best earlier.  What's missing is a humanizing humor, levity, & joy this season.  How could so many cast members, every single one of them from headlining star to the extras, walk around the entire time with heavy, joyless, scowly angst?  They all take themselves way too seriously.  No one is real.  They're all angst props.


And wth was that mood music they played during the party raid?  It was a complete anachronism, hearkened thrillers from 50 years ago, and it didn't work.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

*^ is that a young Ian McShane in your avi?*


Certainly is!


----------



## katran26

I think after this season I'm going to give up watching True Detective. I had trouble getting into the first season, and this one seems all over the place to me...


----------



## lurkernomore

I think there is too much going on - but I am still going to watch!


----------



## Freckles1

Decophile said:


> what did it say?




The writer had know Nic for several years and told Nic's back story / Nic also talked about his life/writing/family a little bit. It was almost laughable the words Nic would use. You know, when someone is trying to hard to act smart? 
Maybe it's a Hollywood thing, but I thought it was hilarious and ridiculous all at the same time. 
The article did touch on his book and how his childhood and New Orleans influenced the first season of Tue Detective. That may be why this second season isn't as good. He has no historical content or personal experience to draw from??? 
Anyway, he sounded like that kid in class that was waaay too desperate for attention...


----------



## Moirai

lurkernomore said:


> I think there is too much going on - but I am still going to watch!



I second that!


----------



## buzzytoes

justwatchin said:


> Seems like the last 2 episodes have had about 5-10 minutes of some action at the very end. How they are going to bring this altogether in 2 more episodes is beyond me.



This. I'm still not really sure wtf the plot of this season is? The murder of Casper or has it morphed into sex trafficking?


----------



## QueenLouis

buzzytoes said:


> This. I'm still not really sure wtf the plot of this season is? The murder of Casper or has it morphed into sex trafficking?




I keep watching, but all I can think is "without McConaughey, this just isn't that compelling"


----------



## Moirai

QueenLouis said:


> I keep watching, but all I can think is "without McConaughey, this just isn't that compelling"



Totally agree!


----------



## gracekelly

buzzytoes said:


> This. I'm still not really sure wtf the plot of this season is? The murder of Casper or has it morphed into sex trafficking?



I just had an epiphany.     Season I and Season II have this in common.  Women have been very ill used in both stories.  NP is a dog with a bone.  We get it.  Abusing little kids, cheating on a good woman, sex parties, sex trafficking, drugging kids and women for sex...to quote McConaughey, "well alright, alright alright."  Except, we are not dazed and confused.  We are bored.  Step it up!


----------



## Deco

QueenLouis said:


> I keep watching, but all I can think is "without McConaughey, this just isn't that compelling"


 So true.  Story line is also lacking.  Doesn't pull you in.  Even if the next two episodes miraculously knock it out of the park, it won't make up for how dull, disjointed and poorly written the bulk of the season was, just as the disappointing ending in season 1 didn't diminish how brilliant the rest of the season was.


----------



## Freckles1

I liked the ending of season 1 
I was happy to see the character's friendship endure. 
That's what I took away from the storyline. But I'm always more interested in the characters' relationships than the plot. 
I'm not sure this season has a plot though!!!!


----------



## QueenLouis

Freckles1 said:


> I liked the ending of season 1
> I was happy to see the character's friendship endure.
> That's what I took away from the storyline. But I'm always more interested in the characters' relationships than the plot.
> I'm not sure this season has a plot though!!!!




Yes, I took season 1 as a character study on those 2 men and their bond more so than the crime they were investigating. And I thought it was riveting.


----------



## deltalady

Wow! It's looking like the bad guys may prevail.


----------



## Moirai

Not liking this episode. Will be interesting to see how they will get out of this mess. 90 min for finale.


----------



## TC1

I hate how this episode ended!


----------



## Freckles1

Ok I need to break it down. Casper and the captain ( black cop ) and the fat white cop alcoholic who's dead - they did the robbery and stole the diamonds back in '92? Casper showed the to Tasha and then the other two whacked her and Casper because she was going to blackmail them and Casper is out of control and a moron? 
Is Vince and his Russian issue and the land deal a separate  situation?  Or are they all tied together?? I gotta watch this episode again!! Good grief!!!


----------



## Moirai

Freckles1 said:


> Ok I need to break it down. Casper and the captain ( black cop ) and the fat white cop alcoholic who's dead - they did the robbery and stole the diamonds back in '92? Casper showed the to Tasha and then the other two whacked her and Casper because she was going to blackmail them and Casper is out of control and a moron?
> Is Vince and his Russian issue and the land deal a separate  situation?  Or are they all tied together?? I gotta watch this episode again!! Good grief!!!



I am with you Freckles! I keep telling DH while watching the show last night of how confused  I am. My take is that everyone and everything are connected to Vinci corruption which the feds are trying to crack. Unfortunately the lead female fed is now dead.


----------



## Freckles1

Moirai said:


> I am with you Freckles! I keep telling DH while watching the show last night of how confused  I am. My take is that everyone and everything are connected to Vinci corruption which the feds are trying to crack. Unfortunately the lead female fed is now dead.




Ok!! I'm watching last nights episode again! Definitely believe the two storyline a intersect because of Casper's death. I believe "Laura" ( Casper's secretary/ orphaned girl ) killed Casper. She figured it out.... Just a fluke somehow maybe.... Or memories of those guys....
I do like that Vince has gone cray cray bi hope he kills everybody next week!!
Not sure if I'm down with Colin and Rachel hooking up.... Kind of hoping they stop before it's too late....


----------



## Sinarta

Glad I'm not the only one that doesn't know what is going on. I'm so confused. I have no clue and I have been watched since the first episode.


----------



## lucywife

Yes, me too confused and gave up on figuring out who did what to whom and why.


----------



## Deco

I suspect that the answers to who did what to whom and why are not interesting anyway.  If Laura is behind any of this nonsense, then it's really, really, really not interesting.


I 100% disapprove of the Ani/Ray hookup.  11th hour pointless cliché and ... uninteresting.


----------



## Moirai

I rolled my eyes on the Ani and Ray hookup. I guess showing them together while Paul was in danger and lying dead is supposed to add drama but I thought it was tasteless.


----------



## lucywife

I think the hookup was a moment of drunken insanity, which they will regret later on (if they live long enough). Ani said that's her way to cope with whatever she is dealing with, we all know how Ray deals with his issues. Yes, tasteless, cliche, everything is dark and hopeless (whatever filters or techniques for some of the scenes they are using - it adds to that feeling). First season wasn't like that.


----------



## buzzytoes

Well that was a sucky ending. I totally had no idea who the black guy was - must have missed him somewhere if they showed him before. I think they were saying there were four guys that robbed the diamonds? The guy that shot Paul being one? Then they used the diamonds to buy into the land purchases. 

I am pretty sure Laura killed Casper, and she is just out for revenge. Nothing to do with the land.

The hookup was dumb, as was the baby mama knowing exactly when he died. They are barely together and we are supposed to believe she has such a great connection that she knows the minute he dies? Lame. The hookup was something I saw coming from the beginning and I still think it's just as dumb at the end of the season.


----------



## lucywife

I think the girlfriend's feeling the moment of Paul's death and seeing her future (mom holding a baby) on TV was a big stretch, but it was very sad. I think she loved Paul very much.


----------



## Freckles1

I die!!! Watching This is Where I Leave You and Ray's douche bag wife is a douche bag wife in it!!! Haha!!


----------



## Moirai

Freckles1 said:


> I die!!! Watching This is Where I Leave You and Ray's douche bag wife is a douche bag wife in it!!! Haha!!



Ray's ex-wife is a bitter woman. Glad to see some goodness in Ray for letting go of his son to prevent him from discovering the identity of his biological father. On the other hand, I really like Frank's wife - she's got spunk! I remember the actress Kelly Reilly as Caroline Bingley in the movie Pride and Prejudice - she was good then too.


----------



## Freckles1

Moirai said:


> Ray's ex-wife is a bitter woman. Glad to see some goodness in Ray for letting go of his son to prevent him from discovering the identity of his biological father. On the other hand, I really like Frank's wife - she's got spunk! I remember the actress Kelly Reilly as Caroline Bingley in the movie Pride and Prejudice - she was good then too.




Love Frank's wife!!! Oh yes she is quite spunky!! What did she say to Ray? Keep it holstered!!! Ha! Something like that!!!


----------



## gracekelly

After episodes of nothingness, they suddenly try to fit it all into one!  The older black guy is the Police Chief and one of the 3 guys who did the diamond robbery. One guy died in the shoot out at the warehouse.   The 3rd guy in the robbery is the one who shot Paul and the Police Lieutenant played by James Frain.  .   Little girl from the robbery growing up to get revenge on Caspere?  That would take research and time and patience on her part.  Is her brother going to show up too? I wonder if the brother is the guy in the bird mask who shot Ray.   How many think that Frank will get away with his crazy plan and the money?



Freckles1 said:


> Love Frank's wife!!! Oh yes she is quite spunky!! What did she say to Ray? Keep it holstered!!! Ha! Something like that!!!




She is something!  Also shows that Frank told her what happened.


----------



## buzzytoes

I have a feeling I still won't know what's going on, even after the finale is done.


----------



## Moirai

gracekelly said:


> After episodes of nothingness, they suddenly try to fit it all into one!  The older black guy is the Police Chief and one of the 3 guys who did the diamond robbery. One guy died in the shoot out at the warehouse.   The 3rd guy in the robbery is the one who shot Paul and the Police Lieutenant played by James Frain.  .   Little girl from the robbery growing up to get revenge on Caspere?  That would take research and time and patience on her part.  Is her brother going to show up too? I wonder if the brother is the guy in the bird mask who shot Ray.   How many think that Frank will get away with his crazy plan and the money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She is something!  Also shows that Frank told her what happened.



Frank's wife was there in that kitchen scene. She was behind bedroom door holding a small gun. She would have shot Ray  if needed.


----------



## gracekelly

Moirai said:


> Frank's wife was there in that kitchen scene. She was behind bedroom door holding a small gun. She would have shot Ray  if needed.



Wow! I totally did not see her!  She is tough!


----------



## Cornflower Blue

I had it recorded and just watched it tonight. Not happy about Pauly being killed - the character started off OK and then just seemed surplus to requirements unfortunately, and I don't think Ray describing him as '..a golden boy-god..' or something like that in the 5th episode with regards to the shoot-out made it any better tbh. The writers need to take a long hard look at themselves. I was expecting better.
As to the 'main' storyline, and I use that term loosely, well it's just so complicated, I'm impressed with myself for having made it this far despite winging it for many of the episodes. So the death of Caspere may have been caused by those pesky kids who witnessed their parents murder in the jewellery shop years ago? And that everything else, including the jewellery heist is just your everyday kind of corruption in Vinci? I have no idea.

Too many characters, too complicated and too rushed. But I'll still be watching the final episode, naturally....

Still liking Vince Vaughn. He'll probably get killed off in the final episode after me saying that - I hope not.


----------



## gracekelly

Cornflower Blue said:


> I had it recorded and just watched it tonight. Not happy about Pauly being killed - the character started off OK and then just seemed surplus to requirements unfortunately, and I don't think Ray describing him as '..a golden boy-god..' or something like that in the 5th episode with regards to the shoot-out made it any better tbh. The writers need to take a long hard look at themselves. I was expecting better.
> As to the 'main' storyline, and I use that term loosely, well it's just so complicated, I'm impressed with myself for having made it this far despite winging it for many of the episodes. So the death of Caspere may have been caused by those pesky kids who witnessed their parents murder in the jewellery shop years ago? And that everything else, including the jewellery heist is just your everyday kind of corruption in Vinci? I have no idea.
> 
> Too many characters, too complicated and too rushed. But I'll still be watching the final episode, naturally....
> 
> Still liking Vince Vaughn. He'll probably get killed off in the final episode after me saying that - I hope not.



Well NP surprised me when he gave us a happy ending of sorts on Season 1, so who knows, maybe Frank will live and Jordan will be pregnant. Ray and Ani will drive off into the sunset.


----------



## deltalady

I feel dissatisfied with the ending.


----------



## Moirai

Disappointing ending.  I did end up liking Ray and Frank compared to beginning of the show.


----------



## TC1

I feel so suckered in by this show...the ending was disappointing


----------



## QueenLouis

I kept watching just because the 1st season was so good. But at some point during last week's episode I was not paying attention at all, and just turned it off. I really don't know if I want to bother watching that & the finale. I'm just so not gripped by the story or the characters. IF there is a story, that is.


----------



## PeggyOlson1

I loved the ending. Theres something very haunting about it. Just wondering what happened to Ani after.


----------



## Freckles1

deltalady said:


> I feel dissatisfied with the ending.







Moirai said:


> Disappointing ending.  I did end up liking Ray and Frank compared to beginning of the show.




Awful. Boo. Best line - that was a big diamond!!! Ha
I did like Ray and frank's redemptive personalities though.


----------



## Moirai

Freckles1 said:


> Awful. Boo. Best line - that was a big diamond!!! Ha
> I did like Ray and frank's redemptive personalities though.



Frank and his wife Jordan had the best relationship in the show. Couldn't help noticing the pretty dress and hat Jordan was wearing at the end of the show.


----------



## TC1

The cellphone message failing to upload was so sad, along with the paternity testing


----------



## Moirai

TC1 said:


> The cellphone message failing to upload was so sad, along with the paternity testing



Cellphone upload failure was a misfire imo, geez he's already dead so why?

Paternity test states Ray is the father so that's a good thing. The pics of Ray with his baby son are so touching.


----------



## TC1

Moirai said:


> Cellphone upload failure was a misfire imo, geez he's already dead so why?
> 
> Paternity test states Ray is the father so that's a good thing. The pics of Ray with his baby son are so touching.


 
Well, Ray knew that his son would only be hearing the worst about him the way he was railroaded into the murder of the other cops..so I'm sure he just wanted his son to have one last message. So, it was so sad it didn't load. That was my take anyhow.


----------



## Moirai

TC1 said:


> Well, Ray knew that his son would only be hearing the worst about him the way he was railroaded into the murder of the other cops..so I'm sure he just wanted his son to have one last message. So, it was so sad it didn't load. That was my take anyhow.



I agree. I thought it was pretty low for the show to end without Ray's son getting that last message. I meant it was a misfire on the part of the show to end it that way when Ray is already dead.


----------



## gracekelly

Disappointing ending to a disappointing show.  After Frank and Ray killed those guys at the cabin and took the money, you knew that they had to die.  The surprise to me was the Mexican gang that found Frank a little too easily.  The cops staking out the son's school was not a surprise.  The big winner was James Frain's police detective.  He got away with 3 murders and made money on the railway.  Ani and the baby?  Really, was that put in for tear jerker effect?  Either this will get cancelled or Matthew and Woody will get a new writer and keep the concept.


----------



## Deco

gracekelly said:


> Disappointing ending to a disappointing show.*  After Frank and Ray killed those guys at the cabin and took the money, you knew that they had to die.*  The surprise to me was the Mexican gang that found Frank a little too easily.  The cops staking out the son's school was not a surprise.  The big winner was James Frain's police detective.  He got away with 3 murders and made money on the railway.  Ani and the baby?  Really, was that put in for tear jerker effect?  Either this will get cancelled or Matthew and Woody will get a new writer and keep the concept.


Yep, writing was on the wall right then.  Looked like so much was thrown in for tearjerker effect.  Finding out Ray was the real father, his message not uploading in time (never mind why Ray had to go running into the redwoods and forsake cell coverage territory), Ani and Ray suddenly developing a love and optimism for the future, Ani bursting into tears the moment Ray died.  So much filler in 8 episodes that advanced neither the plot nor character development.  You know the crooked cops will kill Mr. Ponytail LA Times reporter as well, so the scene about revealing all to him was also pointless.  It was all a Greek tragedy that failed to move like a Greek tragedy does. An utterly hollow and flat season.  

As much as I would kill to see Matthew and Woody back, I just don't trust Nic's writing/storytelling.  Now if they get another writer and Fukunaga back, sign me up.


----------



## gracekelly

Decophile said:


> Yep, writing was on the wall right then.  Looked like so much was thrown in for tearjerker effect.  Finding out Ray was the real father, his message not uploading in time (never mind why Ray had to go running into the redwoods and forsake cell coverage territory), Ani and Ray suddenly developing a love and optimism for the future, Ani bursting into tears the moment Ray died.  So much filler in 8 episodes that advanced neither the plot nor character development.  You know the crooked cops will kill Mr. Ponytail LA Times reporter as well, so the scene about revealing all to him was also pointless.  It was all a Greek tragedy that failed to move like a Greek tragedy does. An utterly hollow and flat season.
> 
> As much as I would kill to see Matthew and Woody back, I just don't trust Nic's writing/storytelling.  Now if they get another writer and Fukunaga back, sign me up.



Matthew and Woody are executive producers and they have the juice that got this on HBO.  I don't expect to see them act in it again, but I am hoping that if another season is in the pipeline that they can oversee it better so we will not be so disappointed.  I think they have the power to find and use another writer.


----------



## Sinarta

Moirai said:


> I agree. I thought it was pretty low for the show to end without Ray's son getting that last message. I meant it was a misfire on the part of the show to end it that way when Ray is already dead.


 
I think Ray was trying to send all of the messages he has been recorded for his son but his son didnt get any. 

That was about the only thing I understood out of the whole show. I had no clue of what was going on.


----------



## lucywife

At least Ray's ex will feel bad about treating him the way she did. For the moment I thought Ray's son is a child of that redhead Blake that was murdered by Frank.


----------



## Moirai

Sinarta said:


> I think Ray was trying to send all of the messages he has been recorded for his son but his son didnt get any.
> 
> That was about the only thing I understood out of the whole show.* I had no clue of what was going on*.



LOL. Same here. I keep thinking let's get this over with. 
BTW, your avatar is so cute - red doberman puppy?


----------



## Sinarta

Moirai said:


> LOL. Same here. I keep thinking let's get this over with.
> 
> BTW, your avatar is so cute - red doberman puppy?




No he's a chocolate/tan min pin but he thinks he's big!


----------



## buzzytoes

I probably shouldn't have read all of these comments. Now I don't even want to watch the finale!


----------



## Love4H

Loved it! 
Watched it last night. 
Tonight I'm re watching the season again. Now I know what to look at exactly!
Excited!


----------



## gracekelly

Love4H said:


> Loved it!
> Watched it last night.
> Tonight I'm re watching the season again. *Now I know what to look at exactly!*
> Excited!



There is some truth to that and I was thinking along those lines myself.  Maybe we can get a better take on Vince Vaughn's character.  On reviewer suggested that Frank is stilted and stiff when he is trying to go straight, but when he reverts back to full gangster mode, he is fun to watch.    I actually like his plan to off the the people at the cabin and how that whole scene was played.  Very smooth.


----------



## Moirai

gracekelly said:


> There is some truth to that and I was thinking along those lines myself.  Maybe we can get a better take on Vince Vaughn's character.  On reviewer suggested that Frank is stilted and stiff when he is trying to go straight, but when he reverts back to full gangster mode, he is fun to watch.    I actually like his plan to off the the people at the cabin and how that whole scene was played.  Very smooth.



Frank was betrayed by those two men he payed off at the restaurant, right? That's how Tony found him? I was thinking that if he just gave up his suit, he would be alive. But those diamonds were in there and so was his pride.


----------



## Love4H

I was screaming at TV half of the episode...
Noooo, don't go to the schoooooool. 
Nooooooo, you're gansta and there are cars blocking you, just driiiive. 
Shoot them, shoot them, shoot them!
Talk to them, be nice, come on! 
Walk, walk, please keep on walking...

Cried a lot.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Season Two was a big FU to the audience, IMO.
I can't believe what a self-indulgent load of sh*t that was. 
Most of the time it was so absurd, I couldn't help but laugh. The finale was RIDICULOUS.


Season one was so brilliant, it wasn't even aware there was an audience. It was perfect television.


----------



## gracekelly

Moirai said:


> Frank was betrayed by those two men he payed off at the restaurant, right? That's how Tony found him? I was thinking that if he just gave up his suit, he would be alive. But those diamonds were in there and so was his pride.



I don't think we know for sure that the two guys who gave him the passport sold him out.  I wouldn't think that they would know the Mexican gang.


----------



## Deco

JetSetGo! said:


> Season Two was a big FU to the audience, IMO.
> I can't believe what a self-indulgent load of sh*t that was.
> Most of the time it was so absurd, I couldn't help but laugh. The finale was RIDICULOUS.
> 
> Season one was so brilliant, it wasn't even aware there was an audience. It was perfect television.


 My impression exactly, to a T.


----------



## Brandless

After watching the first few episodes, I skipped right to the finale. I thought the whole thing was trying hard to be stylized and artistic (for ex. Frank's death scene) to the point that the storytelling suffered. DH and I were laughing at one scene during the finale when Frank was trying to convince his GF to leave. It was so prolonged and a lot of going back and forth in their conversation that it became really comical. Could have used some editing. IMO, they should have stopped at True Detective 1.


----------



## rdgldy

So very disappointing!!


----------



## gracekelly

I just read that the lyrics to the opening song were tweaked for every episode. Did anyone pick up on that?


----------



## LavenderIce

gracekelly said:


> I just read that the lyrics to the opening song were tweaked for every episode. Did anyone pick up on that?




Goodness no.  I fast forwarded through it every week.


----------



## gracekelly

At first I really did not like the song, then it grew on me.  I did not realize that Leonard Cohen wrote this.   Apparently other savvy people picked up on the changes.  Don't count me as one of them! lol!

I LOVED the theme  for season I


----------



## Moirai

gracekelly said:


> I just read that the lyrics to the opening song were tweaked for every episode. Did anyone pick up on that?





LavenderIce said:


> Goodness no.  I fast forwarded through it every week.



I fast forwarded too. Have to go back and listen now.


----------



## Deco

LavenderIce said:


> Goodness no.  I fast forwarded through it every week.


  so did I.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> At first I really did not like the song, then it grew on me.  I did not realize that Leonard Cohen wrote this.   Apparently other savvy people picked up on the changes.  Don't count me as one of them! lol!
> 
> I LOVED the theme  for season I




I loved first season's theme music as well. I stopped watching this version after 3rd episode, just could not get excited to watch more.


----------



## sthrncin

Not crazy about this season at all! Disappointing.


----------



## chicinthecity777

So far disappointing for me too! I mean the acting is still very good but the story line is just rubbish.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

Loved the last episode! I thought it was excellent and one of the best final episodes of anything I've seen in a long time. I personally think it could have stood on it's own, making the previous 7 episodes irrelevant or optional at best. 'Nevermind' indeed.


----------



## pukasonqo

too many story lines that didn't get solved or explained; i think the first season was more cohesive


----------



## PeggyOlson1

gracekelly said:


> I just read that the lyrics to the opening song were tweaked for every episode. Did anyone pick up on that?




I love the opening credits so yeah, I definitelt noticed that. I wish they didn't do it that way though. I liked the version on the 2nd episode.


----------



## jen_sparro

Having watched this season for the second time with my parents (they need someone to explain certain things ), I enjoyed it better the second time.
I thought the last two episodes were the strongest- I really felt for Vince Vaughn's character in those last scenes (in the desert). 

Was it as good as the first season? Not quite... but I will certainly watch a third season (if there is one).


----------



## Moirai

jen_sparro said:


> Having watched this season for the second time with my parents (they need someone to explain certain things ), I enjoyed it better the second time.
> I thought the last two episodes were the strongest- I really felt for Vince Vaughn's character in those last scenes (in the desert).
> 
> Was it as good as the first season? Not quite... but I will certainly watch a third season (if there is one).



Agree with you. I too would watch season 3 - different actors and storyline.

I was rooting for Vaughn towards the end of the show, surprising considering I thought him to be the weakest at the beginning of the season. He must be more comfortable being a bad boy.


----------



## ssocialitex

!!!

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/true-detective-season-3-trailer-watch-mahershala-ali-1202917312/


----------



## LavenderIce

The trailer looked good.  I hope the third season is better than the second season.


----------



## chowlover2

I only watched 2 episodes of the second season, I just couldn't get any further.


----------



## gracekelly

chowlover2 said:


> I only watched 2 episodes of the second season, I just couldn't get any further.


It was awful so don't feel badly or waste your time.  I didn't see the trailer, but will watch it when it appears.  I wonder if the original writer is back or he was canned for that second attempt.


----------



## gracekelly

Ah, the original writer is back on Season 3.  Apparently the apologists are saying that the reason Season 2 stank was because the writing of the season was a total rush job.  He had a lot of time on this one and there are hints that certain plot points have the same feeling as Season 1. Even though the great director Cary Fukunaga is not back, there are several well respected directors who did the series this time.   Here's hoping!


----------



## gracekelly

@gacats What was the sum reaction of the folks in your town?  Did many get to watch it?


----------



## gracekelly

Sorry posted on the wrong thread.


----------



## chowlover2

gracekelly said:


> Ah, the original writer is back on Season 3.  Apparently the apologists are saying that the reason Season 2 stank was because the writing of the season was a total rush job.  He had a lot of time on this one and there are hints that certain plot points have the same feeling as Season 1. Even though the great director Cary Fukunaga is not back, there are several well respected directors who did the series this time.   Here's hoping!


I think Cary made that series. Hopefully there are other directors who share his vision and are working on this series.


----------



## chowlover2

Who watched the premiere of season 3 and what do you think? I enjoyed both episodes and think this season is on the right track.


----------



## sthrncin

chowlover2 said:


> Who watched the premiere of season 3 and what do you think? I enjoyed both episodes and think this season is on the right track.



I watched both and they were awesome!!


----------



## skyqueen

chowlover2 said:


> Who watched the premiere of season 3 and what do you think? I enjoyed both episodes and think this season is on the right track.





sthrncin said:


> I watched both and they were awesome!!


Dying to see...love anything Mahershala Ali is in


----------



## kemilia

skyqueen said:


> Dying to see...love anything Mahershala Ali is in


Darn, I didn't know it had started but I will be watching, I sure do hope it is better than Season 2.


----------



## chowlover2

kemilia said:


> Darn, I didn't know it had started but I will be watching, I sure do hope it is better than Season 2.


I think it will be, the first 2 episodes were really good. Cary Fukunawa is also involved, and that's a good sign.


----------



## LavenderIce

chowlover2 said:


> Who watched the premiere of season 3 and what do you think? I enjoyed both episodes and think this season is on the right track.



I watched both episodes last night.  So far, so good.



chowlover2 said:


> I think it will be, the first 2 episodes were really good. Cary Fukunawa is also involved, and that's a good sign.



I was happy to see his name in the credits.  Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson were in the credits as well.  I hope they all sprinkle some of their season 1 mojo on to this season.


----------



## kemilia

I've only watched the first episode and so far so good, really enjoyed it.


----------



## Grande Latte

I watched S3 E1 and E2. Loved it. Can't wait for E3 on Monday.


----------



## gracekelly

I really like it and the acting is A++. The three principals are convincing in the three time lines and they are very good at holding your attention.


----------



## Charles

I'm liking it through the first 3 eps.  A couple things.  In the first ep, Hayes mentioned "We know what happened with that" in reference to the Native American dude.  So it seems there's some foreshadowing with that.  I thought they might have convicted him for the murder.  It's odd that Julie might still be alive, yet has been hiding this whole time.  Maybe some brainwashing went on?  Is she using another identity??  I also find it convenient that Hayes is always the one to find the clues.  I know he's a tracker and all, but it's like, we know the boy was found in the woods in a cave, yet Hayes is the only one to canvass that area?  I'll let it slide now, but it was just something that was running through my mind while watching.


----------



## gracekelly

Charles said:


> I'm liking it through the first 3 eps.  A couple things.  In the first ep, Hayes mentioned "We know what happened with that" in reference to the Native American dude.  So it seems there's some foreshadowing with that.  I thought they might have convicted him for the murder.  It's odd that Julie might still be alive, yet has been hiding this whole time.  Maybe some brainwashing went on?  Is she using another identity??  I also find it convenient that Hayes is always the one to find the clues.  I know he's a tracker and all, but it's like, we know the boy was found in the woods in a cave, yet Hayes is the only one to canvass that area?  I'll let it slide now, but it was just something that was running through my mind while watching.


I read someplace that Pizzolatto likes to throw things into the plot and not go anywhere with them later.  I was wondering if Woodward is one of those things.  It  was so obvious that they would go after him, and I think rather disappointing if the murder is pinned on him.  Same thing for the teenage boys.  Pizzolato did some really annoying things in Season 1 that still bug me!  I also thought he could have been more original and not use the little straw dolls, which again, were too similar to Season 1.  I am coming around to believing that his writing is just about character study and to heck with people (viewers) trying to make sense of the plot.

Edit:  Michael Greyeyes is too good an actor to be thrown away easily in this story.  I suspect we will see more of him.


----------



## Charles

gracekelly said:


> I read someplace that Pizzolatto likes to throw things into the plot and not go anywhere with them later.  I was wondering if Woodward is one of those things.  It  was so obvious that they would go after him, and I think rather disappointing if the murder is pinned on him.  Same thing for the teenage boys.  Pizzolato did some really annoying things in Season 1 that still bug me!  I also thought he could have been more original and not use the little straw dolls, which again, were too similar to Season 1.  I am coming around to believing that his writing is just about character study and to heck with people (viewers) trying to make sense of the plot.
> 
> Edit:  Michael Greyeyes is too good an actor to be thrown away easily in this story.  I suspect we will see more of him.



I wouldn't have any issues if they pinned it on Woodard.  I also think he'll be around down the line.  It's shaping up to show how the police chief at the time (who's now the DA?? I can't recall now) was looking for a win, and, perhaps could be in on something to do with it, so he just pinned it on the most possible culprit.  In 1990, they're probably trying to overturn his conviction cause Julie's prints were found and more info has come to light.


----------



## CourtneyMc22

LOVING it so far. I think they've given indications that the initial conviction is going to be the Native American character b/c someone mentions, in the 1990 timeline, that "his kids" are the ones pushing for overturning the conviction. That rules out the teenagers and the children's uncle who I don't think has kids. Same with the pedophile they beat up. I think the main "story" is going to go down in the 1990 timeline and we'll start getting into that next episode.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

I like it too though there are a lot of similarities to series 1. Maybe they're thinking if it ain't broke don't fix it (especially after the reception series 2 got!). Mr CB is complaining that it's a bit slow, but I pointed out so was series 1 until we saw a man striding across the bottom of his garden in white underpants and a gasmask...
However my main bugbear is that the main actor (Ali?) seems to be mumbling most of the time and I can't understand what he's saying which is driving me nuts. I can hear everybody else clearly so I'm not sure if it's a sound quality issue or not? I've heard other people complain too (I'm in the UK btw) and having to resort to subtitles, and even then it seems the subtitles aren't great either sometimes. We might have to use them though as I keep on asking Mr CB 'what did he say?' but he didn't catch it either.


----------



## CourtneyMc22

Cornflower Blue said:


> I like it too though there are a lot of similarities to series 1. Maybe they're thinking if it ain't broke don't fix it (especially after the reception series 2 got!). Mr CB is complaining that it's a bit slow, but I pointed out so was series 1 until we saw a man striding across the bottom of his garden in white underpants and a gasmask...
> _*However my main bugbear is that the main actor (Ali?) seems to be mumbling most of the time and I can't understand what he's saying which is driving me nuts.*_ I can hear everybody else clearly so I'm not sure if it's a sound quality issue or not? I've heard other people complain too (I'm in the UK btw) and having to resort to subtitles, and even then it seems the subtitles aren't great either sometimes. We might have to use them though as I keep on asking Mr CB 'what did he say?' but he didn't catch it either.


 Yeeeessssss, this!!! I live in the South, one state over from Arkansas so if anyone should be able to understand the "accents" they are doing on this show, it would be me. During the last episode, I was so frustrated that I paused it 15 minutes in so that I could enable the closed captioning. I was literally missing whole sentences. You are not alone in this, ha!


----------



## gracekelly

Cornflower Blue said:


> I like it too though there are a lot of similarities to series 1. Maybe they're thinking if it ain't broke don't fix it (especially after the reception series 2 got!). Mr CB is complaining that it's a bit slow, but I pointed out so was series 1 until we saw a man striding across the bottom of his garden in white underpants and a gasmask...
> However my main bugbear is that the main actor (Ali?) seems to be mumbling most of the time and I can't understand what he's saying which is driving me nuts. I can hear everybody else clearly so I'm not sure if it's a sound quality issue or not? I've heard other people complain too (I'm in the UK btw) and having to resort to subtitles, and even then it seems the subtitles aren't great either sometimes. We might have to use them though as I keep on asking Mr CB 'what did he say?' but he didn't catch it either.


My guess is that the director wants him to speak like that for this character.  I just saw him in _Greenbook _and his diction and enunciation were perfect, and for the same reason, i.e. his character.  
I too find it annoying that I have to use closed captions 75% of the time for any show.  I never know if it is planned for the character or the actors are just "lip lazy."


----------



## Charles

I grew up in a country area in Florida and I can understand him just fine.  Not sure what that means given this takes place in the Ozarks. Haha!
This last ep, when Woodard was setting up those trip wires, I was wondering if he had some left over mines from the war or if it was just some smoke or flash bombs.  Then it shows him positioning that Claymore.  That one dude is gonna regret knocking in that door!
Sooo..I'm guessing they'll arrest Woodard after the incident at his house, then when he's in custody, maybe pin the murder on him?


----------



## Cornflower Blue

I really liked this episode and minimal mumbling although DH said he couldn't hear some of it, but I thought it was well improved apart from a few bits.
Woodard's got quite the armoury there! I reckon there's a good possibility of him getting fitted up for the murder as well.
Anybody notice that Roland had a definite limp in the 2nd timeline? I'm wondering if he picked up an injury at the events at Woodards (or it could be from an old Vietnam injury that's got worse I guess). I like the Vietnam thread running through it all. (OT it reminded me of the series Quarry from a couple of years ago that was excellent imo)

Wonder if we've come across he person/people really responsible for the murder and kidnapping yet? And also there was possibly some info that the childrens mother seemed to be holding back although she was pretty drunk so who knows...


----------



## gracekelly

Cornflower Blue said:


> I really liked this episode and minimal mumbling although DH said he couldn't hear some of it, but I thought it was well improved apart from a few bits.
> Woodard's got quite the armoury there! I reckon there's a good possibility of him getting fitted up for the murder as well.
> *Anybody notice that Roland had a definite limp in the 2nd timeline*? I'm wondering if he picked up an injury at the events at Woodards (or it could be from an old Vietnam injury that's got worse I guess). I like the Vietnam thread running through it all. (OT it reminded me of the series Quarry from a couple of years ago that was excellent imo)
> 
> Wonder if we've come across he person/people really responsible for the murder and kidnapping yet? And also there was possibly some info that the childrens mother seemed to be holding back although she was pretty drunk so who knows...


Yes I noticed that immediately and also wondered later if it was a result of the Woodward attack.  I think one of the other guys tripped the wire and blew the place up.  I think his injury came later and is a reason why Hays was sent to the corner and had his detective career in major crime taken away from him.  

I am no wondering about the old lady who made the straw dolls and if she was telling the truth about who bought them.  If she was, then they really do have to look into workers who were injured at the chicken processing plant.  If she lied, then she is part of the kidnapping.

So what did Hays see on the video?  Julie was clutching something.  What was it?


----------



## Cornflower Blue

gracekelly said:


> Yes I noticed that immediately and also wondered later if it was a result of the Woodward attack.  I think one of the other guys tripped the wire and blew the place up.  I think his injury came later and is a reason why Hays was sent to the corner and had his detective career in major crime taken away from him.
> 
> I am no wondering about the old lady who made the straw dolls and if she was telling the truth about who bought them.  If she was, then they really do have to look into workers who were injured at the chicken processing plant.  If she lied, then she is part of the kidnapping.
> 
> *So what did Hays see on the video?  Julie was clutching something.  What was it?*



Just hope it wasn't a baby/nappies/diapers....


----------



## Charles

gracekelly said:


> So what did Hays see on the video?  Julie was clutching something.  What was it?



I don't think it was anything she was holding...just the fact that he was pretty sure he finally found her and knows what she looks like.

I'm also thinking Lucy might have had something to do with all this...
Maybe she got pulled in by the church, which is a front for some type of child trafficking ring...funded by the chicken plant owners???


----------



## gracekelly

Cornflower Blue said:


> Just hope it wasn't a baby/nappies/diapers....



I was thinking diapers too!


----------



## Charles

gracekelly said:


> I was thinking diapers too!



Doesn't look like diapers to me.


----------



## maxter

True Detective is available Friday - they are releasing it on HBOGO two days early because of the Super Bowl!


----------



## Cornflower Blue

I'd better avoid this thread until early next week then as I'm in the UK and they show it on a Monday night - thanks for the info!


----------



## gracekelly

maxter said:


> True Detective is available Friday - they are releasing it on HBOGO two days early because of the Super Bowl!


I tried that, but all it wants to show you is the first season not the current.


----------



## maxter

gracekelly said:


> I tried that, but all it wants to show you is the first season not the current.



We watched it Friday night!  Reallly great episode.


----------



## gracekelly

That was a pretty interesting episode.  The absolute best scene was at the end between the two actors as 70 year olds.  You wonder how Roland ended up the way he did.  I think the scenes with the children are very telling and are there to mirror the family dysfunction that must have occurred with Julie and Will.  Both sets of children were well aware that things were not 100% between their parents.  Honestly, Hays is so annoying with his wife in the 1990 time frame that you just want to slap him!


----------



## LavenderIce

I thought the scene with 2015 70 year olds Roland and Wayne was the best scene of the episode too.  The best line of the scene for me was, "Let's stir some sh1t together."

I agree there is family dysfunction in the Purcell and Hays families.  That case, has impacted Roland too.

"Julie's" statement on the hotline made me think like her father had something to do with it, or that she wants it to appear that way.


----------



## gracekelly

LavenderIce said:


> I thought the scene with 2015 70 year olds Roland and Wayne was the best scene of the episode too.  The best line of the scene for me was, "Let's stir some sh1t together."
> 
> I agree there is family dysfunction in the Purcell and Hays families.  That case, has impacted Roland too.
> 
> "Julie's" statement on the hotline made me think like her father had something to do with it, or that she wants it to appear that way.


I think Julie’s comment about her father was to let us know that she was led to believe that he wasn’t her real father. If you take what she told her runaway friends into account when she said she was a princess, it makes sense.  I read someplace that the kids were playing some fantasy game with the little toys that were found. Perhaps this is how she was spirited away willingly. She didn’t believe that her parents were her real parents or at least the man who was raising her was not her father. Plus he may not have been her biological father given the mother’s backstory.


----------



## CourtneyMc22

gracekelly said:


> I think Julie’s comment about her father was to let us know that she was led to believe that he wasn’t her real father. If you take what she told her runaway friends into account when she said she was a princess, it makes sense.  I read someplace that the kids were playing some fantasy game with the little toys that were found. Perhaps this is how she was spirited away willingly. She didn’t believe that her parents were her real parents or at least the man who was raising her was not her father. Plus he may not have been her biological father given the mother’s backstory.


Another tidbit also ties into her getting brainwashed....At some point in the early investigation someone (the priest I think?) said that Julie said she had been visiting/talking to an aunt. The investigators knew she didn't have an aunt so whoever the kids were meeting the woods were buying them toys, feeding her information, and getting into her head about her "family."


----------



## Charles

I still think there's something up with that chicken plant.  Lucy knows something.  I think she wrote the note to help the dad let go cause she knew what happened.  I get the feeling that Lucy either sold the kids or gave them to someone (someone with money..hence the princess story??) cause she wanted a better life for them and knew she couldn't provide, so part of that was her convincing the kids to leave cause the dad wasn't really their dad (even though he might be...it's also possible that he's legit not and was led to believe he was by Lucy).
I find it weird that they convicted Woodard after he was dead.


----------



## gracekelly

Lucy could have been having an affair with the boss at the chicken factory and he is Julie's real father.  She could have made deal with him to give him Julie.  I don't think they formally convicted Woodard as much as put the case to rest by blaming him.  Where did his two kids resurface from to want to clear his name? There has to be more to that story and I smell a lawsuit with them suing the city/county for wrongful death.  Their lawyer is a little too slick for this not to be about money.
Pizzolato likes to McGuffin his viewers, so I wonder if there will be an explanation for the dead town and/or the fact that people connected with the case are missing or dead.


----------



## Charles

gracekelly said:


> I don't think they formally convicted Woodard as much as put the case to rest by blaming him.  Where did his two kids resurface from to want to clear his name? There has to be more to that story and I smell a lawsuit with them suing the city/county for wrongful death.  Their lawyer is a little too slick for this not to be about money.
> Pizzolato likes to McGuffin his viewers, so I wonder if there will be an explanation for the dead town and/or the fact that people connected with the case are missing or dead.



No, they convicted him posthumously.  That's why the kids are wanting to get it overturned.  I think his kids are sincere.  They just want his conviction overturned...the lawyer dude seems like he just wants publicity.
Thinking back through...
the nice brown sedan is one of the Hoyts
Hoyt's wife is the "Aunt"
Tom might not be the kids' father (remember the grandparents saying there were rumors they weren't his?)
Lucy tried to sell the kids to the Hoyts??
Still not sure if the Hoyts are "good" or "bad"....in the sense that they often buy and sell kids or not.


----------



## gracekelly

Charles said:


> No, they convicted him posthumously.  That's why the kids are wanting to get it overturned.  I think his kids are sincere.  They just want his conviction overturned...the lawyer dude seems like he just wants publicity.
> Thinking back through...
> the nice brown sedan is one of the Hoyts
> Hoyt's wife is the "Aunt"
> Tom might not be the kids' father (remember the grandparents saying there were rumors they weren't his?)
> Lucy tried to sell the kids to the Hoyts??
> Still not sure if the Hoyts are "good" or "bad"....in the sense that they often buy and sell kids or not.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_trial

I guess it is done. I still think there is a monetary reason driving this bus. Plus he was Native American so they want to get a point across regarding the racist aspect of his conviction  There is the PTSD aspect for Woodard and Hays as war vets as well


----------



## gracekelly

Oh boy!!!  That was quite an ending and very suspicious that he knew right where to go in the house and that he was allowed to do it.   Big chicken fingers pointing the way to Julie.


----------



## LavenderIce

Two episodes left. I want to see what/who is inside the pink room.


----------



## Charles

gracekelly said:


> That was quite an ending and very suspicious that he knew right where to go in the house and that he was allowed to do it.   Big chicken fingers pointing the way to Julie.



Uh...haven't you seen any thriller movie/show??  It's always downstairs in the basement!


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## gracekelly

Charles said:


> Uh...haven't you seen any thriller movie/show??  It's always downstairs in the basement!



But there were no cobwebs or squeaky steps. No creepy housekeepers or howling dogs.  I thought he was heading for the wine cellar


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## Jayne1

Didn't Cousin Dan, the one who ended up dead in a quarry, sorta imply he was doing it with Lucy and could be the father? Great wig on the guy this week, by the way! Better than the first one.  

Lucy sold her kids to supply her habit, I don't think she was necessarily doing it for altruistic reasons, like a better life.

Harris James is the culprit so far.  He quit his job on the force to work at Hoyt Foods. He was probably always on the Hoyt payroll.


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## gracekelly

Jayne1 said:


> Didn't Cousin Dan, the one who ended up dead in a quarry, sorta imply he was doing it with Lucy and could be the father? Great wig on the guy this week, by the way! Better than the first one.
> 
> Lucy sold her kids to supply her habit, I don't think she was necessarily doing it for altruistic reasons, like a better life.
> 
> Harris James is the culprit so far.  He quit his job on the force to work at Hoyt Foods. He was probably always on the Hoyt payroll.



Yes, I think Cousin Dan said that they were a lot more than kissin' cousins.  

I don't know that she sold the kids to support her drug habit, which I think came later, but sold them so she could get out of town and start over in another place.     I certainly think that he was sending her the money that she was living off of until her end.  They may be trying to make us think Hoyt was Julie's biological father; he certainly had her living in that basement room, which is a heck of a way to treat your child or the child of anyone else.  

When Tom entered the room he looked all around, but it wasn't until the last sweep that he saw Julie.  Now why was that?  You would think that he would have seen her from the start, so that infers that her presence wasn't immediately apparent to him.  .  Perhaps she was trying to hide under something? 

Harris James is definitely a bad guy and part of the cover up.  I'm not excluding the  District Attorney from this either.  He was a little too anxious to pin the blame quickly on someone.


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## Charles

I don't think Julie is down there.  Maybe another girl or a bunch of pics of girls.  That was the 1990 timeline and Julie is already out and in society somewhere.
Also, no way is Harris the main bad dude.  He's security and enforcement.  That's his job here..nothing more.


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## Charles

Did everyone forget to watch this past Sunday??!!
Interesting developments.  
How'd everyone like the tie in to S1??
Anyone notice Mr June and how the one homeless dude said Julie called herself July??
So it's looking like Mr Hoyt perhaps set up a lifestyle for the daughter?  She stayed on the Hoyt compound and kids were brought to play with her??  
Still confused as to why Julie is brainwashed about it all.  Maybe Mr Hoyt got Lucy pregnant to give his daughter someone to play with?


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## CourtneyMc22

Charles said:


> Did everyone forget to watch this past Sunday??!!
> Interesting developments.
> How'd everyone like the tie in to S1??
> Anyone notice Mr June and how the one homeless dude said Julie called herself July??
> So it's looking like Mr Hoyt perhaps set up a lifestyle for the daughter?  She stayed on the Hoyt compound and kids were brought to play with her??
> Still confused as to why Julie is brainwashed about it all.  Maybe Mr Hoyt got Lucy pregnant to give his daughter someone to play with?


I've been loving it and I'm so sad it's almost over! I feel like this story could have used at least 2-3 more episodes.

I'm interested to see the resolution, because they seem to be trying to make us simultaneously think that Hoyt "bought" Julie as a replacement child for his daughter, but they are also giving us these possible tie-ins with season one and trafficking rings with connections to Hoyt and other wealthy men. So is it going to be both? I feel like if there is not a larger trafficking ring/conspiracy uncovered in the end, it's going to feel cheap that they again hinted at this as a possibility for a 2nd season w/ no resolution. That's a big red herring to throw out twice and never actually care to pay it off.

Regardless, it's clear that Julie was different since they clearly "bought" her as a pretend daughter for a long period of time. I think they brainwashed her so that she would go willingly to live at the Hoyt's family home vs. feel like she was getting kidnapped. They had to talk her into thinking that her family wasn't her real family, so that she would want to live with the Hoyts. The cousin may end up being the father, but I don't think that's going to be a big plot point. I don't think Hoyt is biologically related to Julie in any way, she's just the girl they found to replace his granddaughter. If I had to guess, I think it will come out that Lucy thought she was sending both children off to a better life (and also getting a payday), which is why she felt so guilty after the son ended up being killed. Eventually, she threatened to talk and they staged her overdose. I'm also very interested to know whether the son was accidentally killed or intentionally murdered by Hoyt's people. The way they showed the rock almost makes it look like he fell onto it and hit his head.

Yes, loved the connection with Mr. June and Julie calling herself Mary July. Also, I read that the last name on the landscaper's truck that we saw a couple episodes ago when Hayes's wife was interviewing the other runaway girl is the last name of Julie's childhood friend who they interviewed in the 1st/2nd episode. So he's likely the young man who got out of the truck when they looked out the window. So I think it will come out that possibly he was doing gardening work for the Hoyts, saw Julie, and ultimately helped Julie escape. That would be a cool tie-in, especially since the landscaper was the big-bad in S1.

I'm also really interested to know why we got a scene of a college Becca this week. I don't think it bodes well for her, because something clearly happens to either sever her relationship with Hayes between now and then, or she dies and the whole story about her being "in California" is the family's way to make sure Hayes doesn't have to remember the tragedy over and over again.

LOTS to tie-up that's for sure.


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## RueMonge

CourtneyMc22 said:


> I'm also really interested to know why we got a scene of a college Becca this week. I don't think it bodes well for her, because something clearly happens to either sever her relationship with Hayes between now and then, or she dies and the whole story about her being "in California" is the family's way to make sure Hayes doesn't have to remember the tragedy over and over again.
> 
> LOTS to tie-up that's for sure.



There is a lot to tie up, and I will miss this show! Becca is an added layer.

I guess we know why Hays left the force in 90, but did we ever learn why he was demoted in 80? And someone please tell me that I am wrong to worry that West is hiding something. Something more than how they broke rules trying to solve the case? Well, and killed people.


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## Jayne1

CourtneyMc22 said:


> I'm interested to see the resolution, because they seem to be trying to make us simultaneously think that Hoyt "bought" Julie as a replacement child for his daughter, but they are also giving us these possible tie-ins with season one and trafficking rings with connections to Hoyt and other wealthy men. So is it going to be both? I feel like if there is not a larger trafficking ring/conspiracy uncovered in the end, it's going to feel cheap that they again hinted at this as a possibility for a 2nd season w/ no resolution. That's a big red herring to throw out twice and never actually care to pay it off.


When Wayne was interviewed by that woman and she mentioned pedophilia, Wayne seemed happy to realize she was wrong about the true events. 

From what we have since the most recent episode, it's just about Julie being bought for the daughter.

Wayne getting into that car is when we see his whole life make a huge change, it seems.


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## LavenderIce

Well, they tied it all up last night.  Reading some of the previous posts showed that y'all were on the right track.  I didn't expect a romantic aspect to the ending.  I liked how they explained Roland's fondness for dogs.  I also like that Wayne and Roland still had each other's back in their 70's.


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## CourtneyMc22

I'm still processing it, but overall it was a wonderful season. Strong performances, great character development while still weaving a mystery plot that, on the whole, paid off. I want to re-watch now that it's all over. I like how in the end, it was all about the butterfly effect of this one person's tragedy (Hoyt's daughter losing her family), and all the lives that were ruined but also the lives that were connected b/c of it (Hayes and his wife, Roland and Hayes, Julie and her childhood friend, etc). I also liked the twist that Julie was alive and that her childhood friend ended up with her. The only quip I have is that everything almost ended too neatly...I did like how Hayes found her but couldn't remember why he was there; and they seemed to leave it open ended that his son may dig a little deeper to see what his dad had discovered.

I will say I was confused by his look at the end of the porch scene. I have to watch again, but it seems like there was a dawning of information and sheer terror on Hayes' face but when we zoomed in on his face, it just cut to the scene in the bar when he and Isabel decide to move forward together. So why did he look so scared? It is related to the kids riding down the street like the Purcell's and he's scared they will be kidnapped, b/c that's silly. The facial expression just didn't seem to connect with the memory scene we ended up seeing. I have read theories that it was his last slip into dementia, and maybe they are right, but the face that Mahershala did just confused me.


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## gracekelly

It was great. For me in retrospect the mystery was secondary to the real story,  which was about relationships and how life events shape them on so many levels.   I found the relationship between Wayne and Roland  to be the most touching overall.   In a way it was far more complicated than the relationship between Wayne and Amelia.  

Having Henry find the piece of paper with the address was bittersweet. He realized that his father had found Julie, but what was he going to do with the information?  If he told the interviewer or the police her cover would be blown. I prefer to think that he did nothing as he knew this would happen. It was a parallel to breaking up his own family if he had told his wife of his affair with the interviewer.  

The terror on Waynes’s face is the fear tha he mentioned several episodes ago. He said he was never afraid until Henry was born. Children put your emotions in a different place for better or worse.  It drove Isabel to kidnap Julie and that changed the lives of so many 

I almost wondered if the “live” Amelia had figured out what happened to Julie.   It was shown that she was a relentless and good investigator.   Perhaps that discovery was  enough for her and she decided to keep it to herself after realizing that more lives would be at risk or ruined if she wrote about it or told her husband.


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## RueMonge

Holy crap that was really wonderful. An ending strong enough for an amazing series. I'll be thinking about it for a while. 

I also just watched Russian Doll which I really liked, but the final episode wasn't as good as the rest of the show. Maybe they meant to do that so you'll come back. But True D was so good and complex and funny. It tickled me when West said if they were caught breaking in to the Hoyt's they'd just say they were confused. And when Hays said he had enough of head ****ting birds.

 This story had such heart to show how this case rippled out into so many lives.


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## Jayne1

gracekelly said:


> Having Henry find the piece of paper with the address was bittersweet. He realized that his father had found Julie, but what was he going to do with the information?  If he told the interviewer or the police her cover would be blown. _I prefer to think that he did nothing as he knew this would happen. It was a parallel to breaking up his own family if he had told his wife of his affair with the interviewer.  _


Oh, good point!  I wondered why they threw in that bit about the son having an affair. It seemed so unnecessary to the story. But the parallel part makes sense!


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## chowlover2

I’m glad they had a strong season. Mahershala Ali does‘t even need to speak, his face says it all. And where has Steven  Dorff been all these years? I hope there is a fourth season.


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## Charles

RueMonge said:


> Holy crap that was really wonderful. An ending strong enough for an amazing series. I'll be thinking about it for a while.
> 
> I also just watched Russian Doll which I really liked, but the final episode wasn't as good as the rest of the show. Maybe they meant to do that so you'll come back. But True D was so good and complex and funny. It tickled me when West said if they were caught breaking in to the Hoyt's they'd just say they were confused. And when Hays said he had enough of head ****ting birds.
> 
> This story had such heart to show how this case rippled out into so many lives.



"You're like a pretty bird...just flying around, sh*ttin on people's heads!"

Hahaha!


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## CourtneyMc22

The one liners in that last episode are some of the best of the season. The stuff they had Roland saying in the bar....wow! LOL!


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## gracekelly

CourtneyMc22 said:


> The one liners in that last episode are some of the best of the season. The stuff they had Roland saying in the bar....wow! LOL!


Priceless


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## Jayne1

gracekelly said:


> Having Henry find the piece of paper with the address was bittersweet. He realized that his father had found Julie, but what was he going to do with the information?  If he told the interviewer or the police her cover would be blown. I prefer to think that he did nothing as he knew this would happen. It was a parallel to breaking up his own family if he had told his wife of his affair with the interviewer.


It just occurred to me, that Henry doesn't know that Julie is safe and happy. 

_We_ know, his father may know in a glimmer of reality, but for all Henry knows, Julie is really dead, or still kidnapped and living a life of misery, so why would he not follow through on some evidence he thinks he may have?


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## RueMonge

Jayne1 said:


> It just occurred to me, that Henry doesn't know that Julie is safe and happy.
> 
> _We_ know, his father may know in a glimmer of reality, but for all Henry knows, Julie is really dead, or still kidnapped and living a life of misery, so why would he not follow through on some evidence he thinks he may have?



I thought about that too. Kind of felt that once he had processed dad being lost and getting back home he would deal with the address.


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## gracekelly

If he goes to the address and sees a blonde woman, I think he will put 2+2 together and come up with Julie.


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## Jayne1

gracekelly said:


> If he goes to the address and sees a blonde woman, I think he will put 2+2 together and come up with Julie.


And then decide to keep her secret as you originally suggested...


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## LavenderIce

Looking forward to this!









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Jodie Foster is heading into Night Country. The Silence of the Lambs star is to lead the fourth iteration of HBO’s True Detective franchise, True Detective: Night Country. Foster, who will also exe…




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