# Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner



## Swanky

Her own thread. . .


Please always be completely respectful of other members.  If you are discussing her tv show please do so in our TV Forum.


Previous thread:
http://forum.purseblog.com/celebrity-news-and-gossip/kris-and-bruce-jenner-thread-587338.html


UPDATE and Note: this thread was started during Bruce's transition. Caitlyn takes over on page 40.
http://forum.purseblog.com/celebrity-news-and-gossip/caitlyn-bruce-jenner-904410-40.html


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## JetSetGo!

Let's talk about Bruce, baby...


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## michellem

Did anyone watch his interview with Diane sawyer? I felt bad for him...he seemed so troubled. I can't imagine going my whole life feeling uncomfortable in my own skin. His children all seemed very supportive of him though, which is awesome!


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## Oryx816

Yay!  Bruce has his own thread!


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## Swanky

He does and it's pitifully shorter than Kris' already, lol!


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## chareen

May need to change the name of this thread when he changes it to his female name...that's why it's shorter.  

Let the transformation begin!!



Credit: usmagazine.com


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## Swanky

Please always credit your sources if you don't personally own the copyright


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## chareen

Bruce Jenner and Diane Sawyer interview.

Credit: abc network


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## ByeKitty

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> He does and it's pitifully shorter than Kris' already, lol!



Haha yes, we could aswell name this the Kurse forum


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## AEGIS

after I watched his interview I had to ask my husband if he has ever felt like he needed to become a woman......i just need to make sure.


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## lolas

AEGIS said:


> after I watched his interview I had to ask my husband if he has ever felt like he needed to become a woman......i just need to make sure.



LOL...I did the same thing. I told mine," if you ever feel the need to wear my clothes just give me a heads up first k?"

The look he gave me was all the answer I needed.


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## Florasun

AEGIS said:


> after I watched his interview I had to ask my husband if he has ever felt like he needed to become a woman......i just need to make sure.





lolas said:


> LOL...I did the same thing. I told mine," if you ever feel the need to wear my clothes just give me a heads up first k?"
> 
> The look he gave me was all the answer I needed.



OMG! Me too, LOL. Just checking...


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## AEGIS

lolas said:


> LOL...I did the same thing. I told mine," if you ever feel the need to wear my clothes just give me a heads up first k?"
> 
> The look he gave me was all the answer I needed.





lol I ask about once a year.....like I just need to know so I can bailwhile I am still young and fresh....i'm not that supportive of a spouse sorry...not sorry


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## lolas

AEGIS said:


> lol I ask about once a year.....like I just need to know so I can bailwhile I am still young and fresh....i'm not that supportive of a spouse sorry...not sorry



lol I hear ya, I can deal with a lot...but this would be one of those deal breakers. I wonder if anyone has ever gotten a marriage annulled over this? .thinkin:


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## AEGIS

lolas said:


> lol I hear ya, I can deal with a lot...but this would be one of those deal breakers. I wonder if anyone has ever gotten a marriage annulled over this? .thinkin:




Idk but his 2nd wife divorced him and didn't even ask for child support.  She obviously wanted to wash her hands of him--and it also makes me wonder how much access she allowed him to have w/their sons. She says she always made them accessible but idk if I believe that.

I don't really blame Kris for not being supportive but he told you WHEN YOU MET and he had BREASTS.....like if he had lied to her for 25 years I could understand but he surprisingly seemed somewhat honest about his condition


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## bag-mania

*Kendall Jenner Tears Up When Talking About Bruce Jenner*

 In a new promo for the E! special "Keeping Up With the Kardashians: About Bruce," Kendall tears up when talking to her father about his future. 

"I'm gonna get a tissue," she says, before returning and talking about how amazing of a father Bruce is. 

It's not clear from the clip what Bruce has told her, but the special  will follow Bruce as he gets candid with his family about his  transition. 

 "He's the most amazing person I know. I couldn't ask for a better dad,"  she says. "He taught me how to ride a bike and be the tomboy that I am." 

The special, set to air May 17 and 18, follows Jenner telling ABC News' Diane Sawyer last month that he&#8217;s transgender and that his family had been very supportive. 

Kendall, 19, also details the 45-minute drives Jenner would make to drop off and pick his girls up from school. 

In another promo, Bruce, 65, sits down with Kim, 34, and talks about "secrets." 
 Kim, who has come out in support of Bruce, chats with the iconic Olympian about nail polish and makeup. 

"I do all my nails myself," Bruce says proudly. "Actually, I do very good in the makeup department. I could do your makeup." 

Kim is nothing but smiles. Both clips are really sweet and show the support the girls have for Bruce. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/kendall-jenner-tears-talking-bruce-jenner/story?id=30819025


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## guccimamma

it's like the former person is gone, like alzheimers...everything you remember about someone is changed forever. although in this case, he remembers it all...but you have to relate on a different level.

i would have an extremely difficult time relating to my father as a woman, and calling him a different name.  i can't even fathom it.


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## Coach Lover Too

I cringe every time I hear someone refer to him as a *hero.* When I hear his name, the first word that comes to mind is selfish.
If he wants to follow his heart and become a woman, then more power to him, however, he stated that he has known since he was eight years old that he related more female than male so what does he do? Marry three times and have six different children. I guess my definition of hero is different than most. Shame on him for hurting people in the process when it was all unnecessary.


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## Kitties Are Cute

Coach Lover Too said:


> I cringe every time I hear someone refer to him as a *hero.* When I hear his name, the first word that comes to mind is selfish.
> If he wants to follow his heart and become a woman, then more power to him, however, he stated that he has known since he was eight years old that he related more female than male so what does he do? Marry three times and have six different children. I guess my definition of hero is different than most. Shame on him for hurting people in the process when it was all unnecessary.



While I think calling him a "hero" is inaccurate, I don't think of him as selfish. How was it unnecessary? How would you feel if you went through life feeling like a different person than you were born as?? If anything, he gave himself up for 60+ years. In the interview he says he thought about coming out in the 80s but stopped because of his kids. Also, if you've ever seen the Kardashian show, you can tell that he acquiesces to the family all the time. I'm glad he finally feels that he can be who he really feels he is. I can't imagine how hard it is to have to deal with it, so I cannot judge that it took him this long to be open about it. His time was a different time, and even today many people still have a hard time accepting it.


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## Coach Lover Too

If he didn't feel comfortable being himself in the '80's he could have still continued to live his life without involving so many others. You don't think it was selfish of him to disappear for years when Brody and Brady were small? Why bother bringing children into the equation to start with then. Live your life but don't make others the victims.


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## B. Jara

guccimamma said:


> it's like the former person is gone, like alzheimers...everything you remember about someone is changed forever. although in this case, he remembers it all...but you have to relate on a different level.
> 
> 
> 
> i would have an extremely difficult time relating to my father as a woman, and calling him a different name.  i can't even fathom it.




Neither can I. 



Coach Lover Too said:


> I cringe every time I hear someone refer to him as a *hero.* When I hear his name, the first word that comes to mind is selfish.
> If he wants to follow his heart and become a woman, then more power to him, however, he stated that he has known since he was eight years old that he related more female than male so what does he do? Marry three times and have six different children. I guess my definition of hero is different than most. Shame on him for hurting people in the process when it was all unnecessary.







Coach Lover Too said:


> If he didn't feel comfortable being himself in the '80's he could have still continued to live his life without involving so many others. You don't think it was selfish of him to disappear for years when Brody and Brady were small? Why bother bringing children into the equation to start with then. Live your life but don't make others the victims.




Both Kylie and Kendall were born in the mid to late 90's, well after his first attempt at transitioning. 

I can't even imagine how they must be feeling through all of this.


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## ByeKitty

guccimamma said:


> it's like the former person is gone, like alzheimers...everything you remember about someone is changed forever. although in this case, he remembers it all...but you have to relate on a different level.
> 
> i would have an extremely difficult time relating to my father as a woman, and calling him a different name.  i can't even fathom it.


People are resilient... Not comparing transgenderness to brain damage, but after my mother suffered a really bad stroke she basically turned into another person. She used to be a mathematician, a very hard worker, very smart but had no time for herself. Now that she's disabled (mentally and physically, she's half paralyzed), we agreed that we would enjoy everything life brings. So we'll have a glass of wine together in the garden, enjoy the sun and the flowers... And I enjoy making silly jokes with her, preferably about dirty things. She'll laugh forever, which is great! Yeah, you'd find ways to cope


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## SouthTampa

ByeKitty said:


> People are resilient... Not comparing transgenderness to brain damage, but after my mother suffered a really bad stroke she basically turned into another person. She used to be a mathematician, a very hard worker, very smart but had no time for herself. Now that she's disabled (mentally and physically, she's half paralyzed), we agreed that we would enjoy everything life brings. So we'll have a glass of wine together in the garden, enjoy the sun and the flowers... And I enjoy making silly jokes with her, preferably about dirty things. She'll laugh forever, which is great! Yeah, you'd find ways to cope


I definitely see the similarities.  You now have two sets of "memories" relating to your mother.   His children will also have two differing "memories".


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## Bentley1

guccimamma said:


> it's like the former person is gone, like alzheimers...everything you remember about someone is changed forever. although in this case, he remembers it all...but you have to relate on a different level.
> 
> 
> 
> i would have an extremely difficult time relating to my father as a woman, and calling him a different name.  i can't even fathom it.




I think I would be in denial for a very long time.


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## ByeKitty

SouthTampa said:


> I definitely see the similarities.  You now have two sets of "memories" relating to your mother.   His children will also have two differing "memories".



Exactly!! I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing though, especially considering Bruce is still healthy.


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## Charles

Coach Lover Too said:


> If he didn't feel comfortable being himself in the '80's he could have still continued to live his life without involving so many others. You don't think it was selfish of him to disappear for years when Brody and Brady were small? Why bother bringing children into the equation to start with then. Live your life but don't make others the victims.



So much ignorance in these posts.  Shameful.


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## Coach Lover Too

Charles said:


> So much ignorance in these posts.  Shameful.



Uh, no. Just a low tolerance for the BS that this family is always spewing.

I have the utmost respect for Chaz Bono but in my opinion Bruce Jenner is a joke.
On one hand he demands his privacy and wants to be left alone, but on the other hand it's being reported that he'll be bringing in $5 million just for the first season of his docuseries. Can't have it both ways.  The whole family is one big cluster f*ck.


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## GaitreeS

Coach Lover Too said:


> Uh, no. Just a low tolerance for the BS that this family is always spewing.
> 
> I have the utmost respect for Chaz Bono but in my opinion Bruce Jenner is a joke.
> On one hand he demands his privacy and wants to be left alone, but on the other hand it's being reported that he'll be bringing in $5 million just for the first season of his docuseries. Can't have it both ways.  The whole family is one big cluster f*ck.


 
+1000

Anyone who dares to have a different opinion is chastised...

I am no fan of the KKlan, but you have to admit they are master marketers, they can spin anything to try to make themselves look good. I don't get why so many people keep falling for the same tricks over and over.


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## Coach Lover Too

Completely agree.


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## stacyredbird

> I cringe every time I hear someone refer to him as a *hero.* When I hear his name, the first word that comes to mind is selfish.
> If he wants to follow his heart and become a woman, then more power to him, however, he stated that he has known since he was eight years old that he related more female than male so what does he do? Marry three times and have six different children. I guess my definition of hero is different than most. Shame on him for hurting people in the process when it was all unnecessary.



I totally agree.  I don't understand why he married so many times and had so many children to just do this now so late in life.  I have always really like Bruce, but doing this now after how he has lived his life is selfish and he wants to document this all on TV.  How painful for all his children no matter how much they support and love him.


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## AEGIS

Coach Lover Too said:


> If he didn't feel comfortable being himself in the '80's he could have still continued to live his life without involving so many others. You don't think it was selfish of him to disappear for years when Brody and Brady were small? Why bother bringing children into the equation to start with then. Live your life but don't make others the victims.



I think he disappeared when he started transitioning and his sons noticed. Probably debating if he should do it.  I think it's easier to do it when your kids are adults.


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## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Uh, no. Just a low tolerance for the BS that this family is always spewing.
> 
> I have the utmost respect for Chaz Bono but in my opinion Bruce Jenner is a joke.
> On one hand he demands his privacy and wants to be left alone, but on the other hand it's being reported that he'll be bringing in $5 million just for the first season of his docuseries. Can't have it both ways.  The whole family is one big cluster f*ck.


I can't speak for others obviously, but I don't think the point Charles was referring to was the fact (fact!) that Bruce is a fameho... It is the judgment of him coming out so late in life, how he is selfish for first marrying different women and having kids with them and _then_ coming out as transgender. IDK, it must be a really tough thing to own up to - and when you fall in love with a woman, and she's in love with you the way you are, the whole gender thing might seem trivial for a while (you know how love makes you prioritize differently?) but it always comes back at you.

I can't believe I just stuck up for him


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## guccimamma

here we go with the ignorance accusations again. puts a real damper on a discussion that has many bizarre angles to it.


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## Katel

guccimamma said:


> here we go with the ignorance accusations again. puts a real damper on a discussion that has many bizarre angles to it.



Yes. And new to many who may be trying to learn with love.



Charles said:


> So much ignorance in these posts.  Shameful.



Shame on you for attempting to shame someone who voiced an opinion on a public gossip forum.


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## zippie

guccimamma said:


> here we go with the ignorance accusations again. Puts a real damper on a discussion that has many bizarre angles to it.


 


this


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## Coach Lover Too

Coming out is one thing regardless of his age. Making millions off of it is another.
I guess we'll know how serious he is when he donates ALL proceeds to the LGBT community.
<<<<not holding my ignorant breath. lol


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## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Coming out is one thing regardless of his age. Making millions off of it is another.
> I guess we'll know how serious he is when he donates ALL proceeds to the LGBT community.
> <<<<not holding my ignorant breath. lol



Kris didn't put that in his kontract, so it's not gonna happen


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## Coach Lover Too

stacyredbird said:


> I totally agree.  I don't understand why he married so many times and had so many children to just do this now so late in life.  I have always really like Bruce, but doing this now after how he has lived his life is selfish and he wants to document this all on TV.  How painful for all his children no matter how much they support and love him.



Exactly!


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## Coach Lover Too

DC-Cutie said:


> Kris didn't put that in his kontract, so it's not gonna happen



 
And now she's coming out with her side of the story. Someone stop the madness!


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## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> And now she's coming out with her side of the story. Someone stop the madness!



because it would have been too much like right to just respond to Diane Sawyer's request for comment.  Everything has a price with this family.  EVERYTHING!


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## guccimamma

in his widely watched interview he made fun of his former russian competitor for gaining weight (in his mid 60s i assume)

yet we are all supposed to feel sympathy and compassion for bruce. i just can't. 

i think he's a jerk, transgender people can still be jerks.


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## Jikena

Apparently, Bruce is paid 5 million dollars for the first episodes of his new show. And will be paid more if the show works and more episodes air. I don't know if it's true ? It's what a journalist said on TV today. It's a LOT of money, wow.


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## DesigningStyle

Kylie looks just like Bruce here.


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## pixiejenna

DesigningStyle said:


> Kylie looks just like Bruce here.



Do you mean Kylie used to looks like Bruce? Before all the PS she really did look just like him.


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## ForeverYoung87

I don't think people would care so much that he's getting paid to do the show if he wasn't a part of the Kardashian clan. Some of you keep talking about the money and forget that the show ...if handled well ...has potential to help those who feel the same as Bruce as well as help anyone who doesn't get it. Transitioning or being transgender doesn't really get talked about a lot on TV and out of the LGBT community they are the most ignored and least accepted.


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## FreeSpirit71

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I don't think people would care so much that he's getting paid to do the show if he wasn't a part of the Kardashian clan. Some of you keep talking about the money and forget that the show ...if handled well ...has potential to help those who feel the same as Bruce as well as help anyone who doesn't get it. Transitioning or being transgender doesn't really get talked about a lot on TV and out of the LGBT community they are the most ignored and least accepted.



True. And a good post.


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## ByeKitty

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I don't think people would care so much that he's getting paid to do the show if he wasn't a part of the Kardashian clan. Some of you keep talking about the money and forget that the show ...if handled well ...has potential to help those who feel the same as Bruce as well as help anyone who doesn't get it. Transitioning or being transgender doesn't really get talked about a lot on TV and out of the LGBT community they are the most ignored and least accepted.



Yeah I agree, although I would've preferred to see it aired somewhere other than K! Entertainment. But I don't understand why it's so hard for people to separate Bruce's famewhoring ways from how problematic this issue must have been for him, and all the other transgenders out there.


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## FreeSpirit71

Yeah....I would have been more confident about this doco series if it had aired on almost any other network. 

But any exposure to transgender issues and the journey is good. It will answer some questions and hopefully null some ignorance.

We'll see how E! handles it I guess.


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## ForeverYoung87

ByeKitty said:


> Yeah I agree, although I would've preferred to see it aired somewhere other than K! Entertainment. But I don't understand why it's so hard for people to separate Bruce's famewhoring ways from how problematic this issue must have been for him, and all the other transgenders out there.



I'd rather see him get paid for shedding a light on being transgendered and what the transitioning process is like than get paid to play with his helicopters or agrue with his family over the most mundane and petty things.


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## Coach Lover Too

Like I stated earlier, Chaz Bono is a wonderful example of what a positive role model should be.
Bruce Jenner is a farce. I don't believe anything that comes out of any of their pumped up lips.


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## jclaybo

I just love how Bruce is having fun, he was always a pretty ok guy in my book but he seems to really be enjoying himself and thats what i LOVE to see everyone do, enjoying themselves
I dont really agree with the publicity, etc surrounding it all but it is what it is and if he's happy I guess thats what is important


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## Kitties Are Cute

It was in bad taste to make fun of his former competitor, he should know better. But please, I think we've all had thoughts like those about somebody at some point in our lives. He just shouldn't have said it on TV.


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## Charles

Katel said:


> Yes. And new to many who may be trying to learn with love.
> 
> 
> 
> Shame on you for attempting to shame someone who voiced an opinion on a public gossip forum.



I'll shame people til I die when they spew ignorance and judge based on that ignorance.  Have you lived as a person who's not sure of their gender, something so personal and individual to one's being??  We have NO IDEA what he's going through and the struggles he's had to deal with.  And it's ironic cause the people calling him selfish and chastising him are part of the reason people with identity issues don't want to come out and have problems figuring out what to do.   So yes, I will call ignorance cause it's 100% what's going on here.  Until you're in Bruce's shoes, or someone else who's transgendered, or even someone struggling with coming out as gay, you have no right to call him/her selfish.


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## JetSetGo!

Please keep the chat about Bruce and not each other...


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## GaitreeS

Charles said:


> I'll shame people til I die when they spew ignorance and judge based on that ignorance.  Have you lived as a person who's not sure of their gender, something so personal and individual to one's being??  We have NO IDEA what he's going through and the struggles he's had to deal with.  And it's ironic cause the people calling him selfish and chastising him are part of the reason people with identity issues don't want to come out and have problems figuring out what to do.   So yes, I will call ignorance cause it's 100% what's going on here.  Until you're in Bruce's shoes, or someone else who's transgendered, or even someone struggling with coming out as gay, you have no right to call him/her selfish.


 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however the "shameful" behaviour as I see it would be abandoning HIS children and putting HIS needs ahead of his kids. Gay, transgender or straight, if you are not taking care of your children your behaviour IS shameful  He failed as a father especially with Kylie. He's no hero in my books.

I won't even get into the "reality" show non sense that he was a part of for so many moons. FRAUD.

Let's just say he could have dealt with this situation in a private manner without all this hoopla, but we all know it's all about the $$$. It's no one's business who anyone sleeps with or what gender they identify with. I for one do no judge people based on their sexual orentation, judge them soley on their actions. 

Either way I wish him peace, everyone deserves that


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## chowlover2

GaitreeS said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however the "shameful" behaviour as I see it would be abandoning HIS children and putting HIS needs ahead of his kids. Gay, transgender or straight, if you are not taking care of your children your behaviour IS shameful  He failed as a father especially with Kylie. He's no hero in my books.
> 
> I won't even get into the "reality" show non sense that he was a part of for so many moons. FRAUD.
> 
> Let's just say he could have dealt with this situation in a private manner without all this hoopla, but we all know it's all about the $$$. It's no one's business who anyone sleeps with or what gender they identify with. I for one do no judge people based on their sexual orentation, judge them soley on their actions.
> 
> Either way I wish him peace, everyone deserves that


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## GaitreeS

chowlover2 said:


>


 Thank you!


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## Coach Lover Too

GaitreeS said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however the "shameful" behaviour as I see it would be abandoning HIS children and putting HIS needs ahead of his kids. Gay, transgender or straight, if you are not taking care of your children your behaviour IS shameful  He failed as a father especially with Kylie. He's no hero in my books.
> 
> I won't even get into the "reality" show non sense that he was a part of for so many moons. FRAUD.
> 
> Let's just say he could have dealt with this situation in a private manner without all this hoopla, but we all know it's all about the $$$. It's no one's business who anyone sleeps with or what gender they identify with. I for one do no judge people based on their sexual orentation, judge them soley on their actions.
> 
> Either way I wish him peace, everyone deserves that



Kudos!


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## Coach Lover Too

Everything about that family is fake and/or staged so I don't know why we should give him the benefit of the doubt thinking this should be different.


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## Jayne1

GaitreeS said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however the "shameful" behaviour as I see it would be abandoning HIS children and putting HIS needs ahead of his kids. Gay, transgender or straight, if you are not taking care of your children your behaviour IS shameful  He failed as a father especially with Kylie. He's no hero in my books.
> 
> I won't even get into the "reality" show non sense that he was a part of for so many moons. FRAUD.
> 
> Let's just say he could have dealt with this situation in a private manner without all this hoopla, but we all know it's all about the $$$. It's no one's business who anyone sleeps with or what gender they identify with. I for one do no judge people based on their sexual orentation, judge them soley on their actions.
> 
> Either way I wish him peace, everyone deserves that


He is so lucky the boys he had with Linda are so loving, because she said in her recent essay, he didn't even call during that big earthquake, to see if they were okay. Never mind, ignoring birthdays and graduations, that's not quite as big a deal as caring if they were safe.

Anyway, I do get we're talking about his behaviour and actions and not about his gender identity at all.


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## guccimamma

Coach Lover Too said:


> Everything about that family is fake and/or staged so I don't know why we should give him the benefit of the doubt thinking this should be different.



yeah, i think he's just playing to a different crowd now.


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## ForeverYoung87

Well one could argue that him waiting til he was in his 60's to transition, suppressing those feelings so he could try to be who the world and significant others wanted him to be is far from selfish. 

I'm not sure why people think they know what Bruce does day to day and how much involvement he has with Kylie. Does anyone know people in their inner circle? If you believe the Jenner side he's been trying to be more involved and make amends for not being there. As far as Kylie goes a child will rebel and do what they want especially at her age no matter how involved the parent is. You can tell someone I don't like your BF til you lose your voice and they'll still do as they please. Some people just need to learn the hard way


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## SabinaLin

I dont't think (and hope) that he does this just to be more famous at least. He's not married to Kris anymore so she can't "control" him. He chose to come out and tell everybody about it and raise awareness. I think it's really brave of him. Even though he waited so long to transition, it's better sooner than later, and he can finally be who he really is.


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## GaitreeS

When I say Bruce is failing Kylie, I mean legally she cannot do certain things without her parents approval. Most of us have done things without our parent's approval, but nothing that would require our parents to authorize said action. Travelling with a 25 yr old when she's underage? Somebody authorize that. She may think she's an adult and try hard to act like one, BUT her brain is not fully developed and that's why we need parents to guide us, at least until legally an adult and even then...

I'm not even touching the fact that Tyga was with Blac Chyna, a friend of Kylie's sister Kim. There are no boundaries, no line too far :lolots:

While we can't judge Kylie and Bruce's day to day interaction, we know this family is without any moral conviction.


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## Encore Hermes

I think it was selfish for him to tell his first wife to abort their baby when he was leaving her for another woman.


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## guccimamma

he took 5 million dollars to televise his transition.. i don't need to feel sympathy or compassion for him.  he's been well compensated for his story.  it doesn't sound like he's been a compassionate man throughout his life, or he wouldn't have ended up with a woman like kris. 

so he's been trapped in someone else's body? lots of people have much worse problems than this guy.  he has the money and the time for self discovery in malibu for the rest of his life.


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## Charles

GaitreeS said:


> When I say Bruce is failing Kylie, I mean legally she cannot do certain things without her parents approval. Most of us have done things without our parent's approval, but nothing that would require our parents to authorize said action. Travelling with a 25 yr old when she's underage? Somebody authorize that. She may think she's an adult and try hard to act like one, BUT her brain is not fully developed and that's why we need parents to guide us, at least until legally an adult and even then...



So what's he supposed to do?  Forbid her from seeing him?  Do you honestly think that will work?  
Kylie has her own clothing line, is an actress and a model...yeah, what a POS she is.  He certainly failed her.  Obviously she's made some decent decisions in her life, so perhaps he feels she's making a decent decision by dating Tyga.  Even is she isn't, it's not really his place to do something about it.  At this point, she has to start making her own mistakes and learning from them (hopefully).
There seems to be this ideal that if someone doesn't raise their kids how you'd raise your kids, they're bad parents.  It's not like that.


----------



## ByeKitty

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Well one could argue that him waiting til he was in his 60's to transition, suppressing those feelings so he could try to be who the world and significant others wanted him to be is far from selfish.
> 
> I'm not sure why people think they know what Bruce does day to day and how much involvement he has with Kylie. Does anyone know people in their inner circle? If you believe the Jenner side he's been trying to be more involved and make amends for not being there. As far as Kylie goes a child will rebel and do what they want especially at her age no matter how involved the parent is. You can tell someone I don't like your BF til you lose your voice and they'll still do as they please. Some people just need to learn the hard way



Good post, I agree!


----------



## GaitreeS

Charles said:


> So what's he supposed to do?  Forbid her from seeing him?  Do you honestly think that will work?
> Kylie has her own clothing line, is an actress and a model...yeah, what a POS she is.  He certainly failed her.  Obviously she's made some decent decisions in her life, so perhaps he feels she's making a decent decision by dating Tyga.  Even is she isn't, it's not really his place to do something about it.  At this point, she has to start making her own mistakes and learning from them (hopefully).
> There seems to be this ideal that if someone doesn't raise their kids how you'd raise your kids, they're bad parents.  It's not like that.


 
Like I said you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

You listed her accomplishments, kudos to her. I don't agree with the list, but hey...I tend to look for people with more... substance. :lolots:


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Charles said:


> So what's he supposed to do?  Forbid her from seeing him?  Do you honestly think that will work?
> Kylie has her own clothing line, is an actress and a model...yeah, what a POS she is.  He certainly failed her.  Obviously she's made some decent decisions in her life, so perhaps he feels she's making a decent decision by dating Tyga.  Even is she isn't, it's not really his place to do something about it.  At this point, she has to start making her own mistakes and learning from them (hopefully).
> There seems to be this ideal that if someone doesn't raise their kids how you'd raise your kids, they're bad parents.  It's not like that.



It has everything to do with being a parent and NOT their friend. I watched an episode the other night where Kris/Kylie went on a girl trip and Kris wanted them to have girls night and Kylie refused. Kris made the comment that she knows not to push her because she would get mad and leave because she's done it before.
 I guess it's easier to give in to their demands than it is to stand your ground. It's obvious the girl has no boundaries or positive role models.
In the meantime, dad of the year drove them to school in the mornings and then went home and tried on their clothes. He deserves a medal. *eye roll*


----------



## guccimamma

Coach Lover Too said:


> It has everything to do with being a parent and NOT their friend. I watched an episode the other night where Kris/Kylie went on a girl trip and Kris wanted them to have girls night and Kylie refused. Kris made the comment that she knows not to push her because she would get mad and leave because she's done it before.
> I guess it's easier to give in to their demands than it is to stand your ground. It's obvious the girl has no boundaries or positive role models.
> In the meantime, dad of the year drove them to school in the mornings and then went home and tried on their clothes. He deserves a medal. *eye roll*



sums it up.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

GaitreeS said:


> When I say Bruce is failing Kylie, I mean legally she cannot do certain things without her parents approval. Most of us have done things without our parent's approval, but nothing that would require our parents to authorize said action. Travelling with a 25 yr old when she's underage? Somebody authorize that. She may think she's an adult and try hard to act like one, BUT her brain is not fully developed and that's why we need parents to guide us, at least until legally an adult and even then...
> 
> I'm not even touching the fact that Tyga was with Blac Chyna, a friend of Kylie's sister Kim. There are no boundaries, no line too far :lolots:
> 
> While we can't judge Kylie and Bruce's day to day interaction, we know this family is without any moral conviction.



True but I think the main problem is that Kris and Bruce seem to have different parenting styles and are never on the same page. I haven't watched Keeping Up in a while but I always believed their dynamic even though most of the show is staged. He's the conservative one and Kris just wanted to be the cool mom. Why bother asking dad when mom will say yes. It's probably why Bruce is so aloof to everything by the time he finds out its already done and too late. 

I don't think Bruce is an angel just that there's more too it. He could be trying but how much are people letting him know. It's like when a parent ask how was school and the kid simply says fine when a lot more is really going on.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

So tired of people in this thread accusing others of giving Bruce "a medal", a "free pass" or hailing him as a hero.  Never happened. 

Both in the Kris and Bruce thread its been stated while people can understand the conflict for Bruce, it doesn't spare him from his parental duties. He should have been strong for his kids. He wasn't. He let Kris and the older girls take his spine..Kylie is the result.

But I see some comments here that are beyond the pale. 

"dad of the year drove them to school in the mornings and then went home and tried on their clothes."

Seriously?  If thats not some mean a$$ snark directed at his transgender journey.....ugh.


----------



## poopsie

I dunno. Are we so sure it _didn't_ happen that way? The entire family shares/swaps their clothing.


----------



## littlerock

FreeSpirit71 said:


> So tired of people in this thread accusing others of giving Bruce "a medal", a "free pass" or hailing him as a hero.  Never happened.
> 
> Both in the Kris and Bruce thread its been stated while people can understand the conflict for Bruce, it doesn't spare him from his parental duties. He should have been strong for his kids. He wasn't. He let Kris and the older girls take his spine..Kylie is the result.
> 
> But I see some comments here that are beyond the pale.
> 
> "dad of the year drove them to school in the mornings and then went home and tried on their clothes."
> 
> Seriously?  If thats not some mean a$$ snark directed at his transgender journey.....ugh.



I agree. Can we be more sensitive when discussing this topic? We have all kinds of members here, and while I know that most of the hostility is coming from the fact that we are discussing a kardashian relative, some things are still offensive.


----------



## prettyprincess

littlerock said:


> I agree. Can we be more sensitive when discussing this topic? We have all kinds of members here, and while I know that most of the hostility is coming from the fact that we are discussing a kardashian relative, some things are still offensive.



This is so interesting to me. Its ok to call certain female celebrities prostitutes and whores, tear their looks to shreds, and demean them in every possible way, but now forum members should be sensitive when discussing Bruce??


----------



## poopsie

prettyprincess said:


> This is so interesting to me. Its ok to call certain female celebrities prostitutes and whores, tear their looks to shreds, and demean them in every possible way, but now forum members should be sensitive when discussing Bruce??





IKR!

Maybe the uber sensitive should do what I have been told to do when certain posters bother me---ignore them.


----------



## Docjeun

poopsie said:


> IKR!
> 
> Maybe the uber sensitive should do what I have been told to do when certain posters bother me---ignore them.


Ya think? :yes


----------



## DC-Cutie

prettyprincess said:


> this is so interesting to me. Its ok to call certain female celebrities prostitutes and whores, tear their looks to shreds, and demean them in every possible way, but now forum members should be sensitive when discussing bruce??



+1


----------



## blackkitty4378

prettyprincess said:


> This is so interesting to me. Its ok to call certain female celebrities prostitutes and whores, tear their looks to shreds, and demean them in every possible way, but now forum members should be sensitive when discussing Bruce??



There does seem to be bit of a double standard here. It's acceptable to s l u t shame but it's not acceptable to criticize Bruce's poor life choices because he's transgender.

Someone said it perfectly a while back: we're talking about two separate things here: Bruce's parenting/life choices and his gender identity.


----------



## littlerock

But when someone uses the gender identity stuff as part of an insult about parenting, then it crosses a line. If it's just about parenting, then leave the cross dressing comments out, you know?


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.eonline.com/news/654647/...-bruce-promo-is-here-watch-the-emotional-clip

*First Keeping Up With the Kardashians: About Bruce Promo Is HereWatch the Emotional Clip*

The first official promo for Bruce Jenner's upcoming E! special is here.

Judging by the few sneak peeks of Keeping Up With the Kardashians: About Bruce that we've seen thus far, this two-part special is going to bring you to tearsand the promo only further proves that point.

(At this time, Bruce Jenner is choosing to not live publicly in the media as a woman and will be referred to as Bruce Jenner and with male pronouns until he specifies otherwise.)
The one-minute clip features a montage of old footage of Bruce throughout his lifeworking out, hanging with his kids and with Kris Jennerwhile audio of the family's thoughts on his transition play in the background.

"You're thinking someday you're gonna get over it. They're my secrets that I have to deal with on my own," Bruce is heard saying.

Kris explains, "I met him on a blind date, and it was kind of love at first sight," while Kim Kardashian adds, "We wanna understand his struggle."

Afterwards, Kourtney Kardashian says, "I think his biggest concern is he doesn't wanna hurt us."

Kylie Jenner mentions, "I do wanna meet Her, when he's ready. When we're both ready." Meanwhile, Kendall Jenner, who broke down while gushing about her father in a previous clip, is heard emotionally telling her dad, "I just don't like when people say Bruce is gonna be gone," to which he responds, "I'm not going anywhere."

"I don't think I've ever been as scared in my life," Bruce states, "as I was to be extraordinarily honest with my kids."

Part one of the E! special premieres Sunday, May 17, at 9:00 p.m., with part two following the next day, Monday, May 18, at 9:00 p.m.


----------



## prettyprincess

littlerock said:


> But when someone uses the gender identity stuff as part of an insult about parenting, then it crosses a line. If it's just about parenting, then leave the cross dressing comments out, you know?




I disagree. Ive seen far worse being said in other threads, where's the sensitivity training there? If someone wants to criticize his cross dressing and/or his parenting, its their right to do so.


----------



## bisousx

prettyprincess said:


> If someone wants to criticize his cross dressing and/or his parenting, its their right to do so.



Um, wow.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I even found it funny in his interview when he mentioned all the times the K's were blaming each other for stealing each other's clothes when it was really him. It's funny in an ironic kind of way? Plus&#8230; I get that criticizing him for stealing his daughter's clothes could be seen as making fun of him being transgender. I see it as a violation of boundaries IMO. I'd be pissed if anyone, even someone I was close with was secretly taking and trying on my clothes without my consent. If Bruce really wanted to he could have bought his own secret stash of women's clothes to wear. He most likely/definitely did as he said he used to go out cross dressed without people knowing.

But yeah I have a problem with the "Bruce wants to be a woman because Kris took his balls" comments. I find that invalidating of transgender people.


----------



## littlerock

prettyprincess said:


> I disagree. Ive seen far worse being said in other threads, where's the sensitivity training there? If someone wants to criticize his cross dressing and/or his parenting, its their right to do so.



If you are offended by something, report it. I don't know which posts you are referring to. I'm not here to argue, no one has broken any rules. It was a simple request to keep in mind that this is a sensitive topic. If you don't agree with me, that is fine. carry on.


----------



## poopsie

The needs of the few (or the one) outweigh the needs of the many

I haven't seen anything here that is out of line. Humor does not equate disrespect. So, what do those who find his situation repugnant do? What if I were morally offended---would I not be allowed to voice my opinion? IDGAF what Bruce or anyone else does with their bits. Live and let live is a two way street though.




my gawd I am a slow typer.....................sorry


----------



## Encore Hermes

"even found it funny in his interview *when he mentioned all the times the K's were blaming each other for stealing each other's clothes when it was really him"*

Did he think their clothes would fit him?


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

littlerock said:


> But when someone uses the gender identity stuff as part of an insult about parenting, then it crosses a line. If it's just about parenting, then leave the cross dressing comments out, you know?




Totally agree. So many comments here cross the line and reflect a lot of ignorance. Just goes to show you how intolerant a lot of people still are. Him as a parent and him as a trans are two completely separate things.


----------



## chowlover2

What still confuses me is the fact he did hormone replacement, a breast enlargement and electrolysis to remove his beard ( can you imagine how painful that was? ) for 5 yrs. He then meets PMK and throws it all out the window and starts family #3. It's so as though he was quite committed at that point. PMK must have a magic va-jay-jay...


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

prettyprincess said:


> this is so interesting to me. Its ok to call certain female celebrities prostitutes and whores, tear their looks to shreds, and demean them in every possible way, but now forum members should be sensitive when discussing bruce??



+2


----------



## uhpharm01

chowlover2 said:


> What still confuses me is the fact he did hormone replacement, a breast enlargement and electrolysis to remove his beard ( can you imagine how painful that was? ) for 5 yrs. He then meets PMK and throws it all out the window and starts family #3. It's so as though he was quite committed at that point. PMK must have a magic va-jay-jay...



Same here.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> So tired of people in this thread accusing others of giving Bruce "a medal", a "free pass" or hailing him as a hero.  Never happened.
> 
> Both in the Kris and Bruce thread its been stated while people can understand the conflict for Bruce, it doesn't spare him from his parental duties. He should have been strong for his kids. He wasn't. He let Kris and the older girls take his spine..Kylie is the result.
> 
> But I see some comments here that are beyond the pale.
> 
> "dad of the year drove them to school in the mornings and then went home and tried on their clothes."
> 
> Seriously?  If thats not some mean a$$ snark directed at his transgender journey.....ugh.



So.....his young daughters caught him on video taking their clothes out of this closet for his own personal use and he's the victim? Get real.
By the way, I don't have a problem with the transgender society. It's Bruce I have the problem with.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

When you have children, your wants and needs no longer matter. The fact that he knew and has admitted to it leads me to believe that his own selfishness took precedence over his kids feelings.
I would rather go to my grave continuing to be miserable than to hurt my children the way he's obviously hurt his young daughters. But he's not selfish? Uh, ok.


----------



## berrydiva

Coach Lover Too said:


> When you have children, your wants and needs no longer matter. The fact that he knew and has admitted to it leads me to believe that his own selfishness took precedence over his kids feelings.
> I would rather go to my grave continuing to be miserable than to hurt my children the way he's obviously hurt his young daughters. But he's not selfish? Uh, ok.




Have you perhaps considered that some people are capable of moving past the initial and immediate hurt to a place where they're genuinely happy for the parent who has expressed their feeling to them. Not everyone holds onto the hurt and sometimes knowing their parent is suffering in such a way is more hurtful to the child than allowing them to feel they can be honest about themselves. Just sayin'


----------



## GaitreeS

Yea, I'm done with this thread for now. If you say anything about "Bruce" as a person you're being intolerant. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've read one post here where people are making fun of him being transgender. 

Too sensitive.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I apologize if my comments seem insensitive, but they're the result of Bruce's disingenuous attitude towards the subject and that reason only.
He's the one that seems to be making light of the whole situation for monetary gain. In the meantime, his children are the ones that seem to be suffering the most.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

GaitreeS said:


> Yea, I'm done with this thread for now. If you say anything about "Bruce" as a person you're being intolerant. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've read one post here where people are making fun of him being transgender.
> 
> Too sensitive.



You noticed that too huh? 

Some people seem to forget this is a Bruce Jenner thread. Not a transgender/confused identity thread. I question his sincerity.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> I apologize if my comments seem insensitive, but they're the result of Bruce's disingenuous attitude towards the subject and that reason only.
> He's the one that seems to be making light of the whole situation for monetary gain. In the meantime, his children are the ones that seem to be suffering the most.



Coach I agree with you re his parenting. There's no excuse for that.  I can understand his confusion but his kids needed him and he was absent.


----------



## GaitreeS

Coach Lover Too said:


> You noticed that too huh?
> 
> Some people seem to forget this is a Bruce Jenner thread. Not a transgender/confused identity thread. I question his sincerity.


 
I read the comment where someone said he drove them to school and went home and tried on their clothes and apparently that was "insensitive". He admitted it. He brought it up, I guess we all have to gloss over anything that makes him seem less than a hero.

I'm really done now!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

GaitreeS said:


> I read the comment where someone said he drove them to school and went home and tried on their clothes and apparently that was "insensitive". He admitted it. He brought it up, I guess we all have to gloss over anything that makes him seem less than a hero.
> 
> I'm really done now!



I'm the one that made that *insensitive* comment. 
I'm still trying to figure out what he thought he could borrow that would actually fit him! (Hope that's not too insensitive either!)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If we're completely honest, even though his children say they support him, deep down you know they have to be devastated, especially Kendall and Kylie.
Of course I would still love my dad if I were in their situation, but I'm not sure I could ever get over the betrayal and deception.
Maybe fraud is a better term for him instead of selfish but I think they both fit.

xxx


----------



## Yoshi1296

I was thinking, could it be that he was absent from his children's lives because he thought he would be a bad influence on them since he was struggling with his identity? He must've went through a lot of internal struggle and this could've been one of the issues that made him struggle. 
I'm not saying being trans is a bad influence (it is TOTALLY not a bad influence) I support the LGBT community but I was just thinking that that is maybe how he felt? Idk I don't want to get too deep into this since it is a sensitive topic and I don't want to come off as transphobic.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Yoshi1296 said:


> I was thinking, could it be that he was absent from his children's lives because he thought he would be a bad influence on them since he was struggling with his identity? He must've went through a lot of internal struggle and this could've been one of the issues that made him struggle.
> I'm not saying being trans is a bad influence (it is TOTALLY not a bad influence) I support the LGBT community but I was just thinking that that is maybe how he felt? Idk I don't want to get too deep into this since it is a sensitive topic and I don't want to come off as transphobic.



I think it was an influence on his actions, certainly.

He had reservations as he stopped and started treatment etc.


----------



## GaitreeS

Yoshi1296 said:


> I was thinking, could it be that he was absent from his children's lives because he thought he would be a bad influence on them since he was struggling with his identity? He must've went through a lot of internal struggle and this could've been one of the issues that made him struggle.
> I'm not saying being trans is a bad influence (it is TOTALLY not a bad influence) I support the LGBT community but I was just thinking that that is maybe how he felt? Idk I don't want to get too deep into this since it is a sensitive topic and I don't want to come off as transphobic.


 
I see your point and I do think it would have been plausible IF he didn't remarry a woman with 4 children and proceeded to have another 2. I do think if he stayed away from his own children and tried to figure out his own situation I would have had more empathy for him.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> When you have children, your wants and needs no longer matter. The fact that he knew and has admitted to it leads me to believe that his own selfishness took precedence over his kids feelings.
> I would rather go to my grave continuing to be miserable than to hurt my children the way he's obviously hurt his young daughters. But he's not selfish? Uh, ok.



Him being miserable for the rest of his life would hurt his kids too. 

And I don't get why people think him having money means he doesn't deserve sympathy. Money isn't everything nor does it solve every problem. If it did Robin Williams and Kurt Cobain would still be here. Bruce already contemplated suicide just like so many other transgendered people so those millions only do so much.


----------



## berrydiva

Coach Lover Too said:


> If we're completely honest, even though his children say they support him, deep down you know they have to be devastated, especially Kendall and Kylie.
> Of course I would still love my dad if I were in their situation, but I'm not sure I could ever get over the betrayal and deception.
> Maybe fraud is a better term for him instead of selfish but I think they both fit.
> 
> Bring on the haters.


How do we know deep down they're devestated? People, from what I've witnessed, react very differently to being told someone they know/love wants to transition. Many times the expected reaction, positive or negative, isn't always the one given. 

Simply because you or I or someone else would be devestated doesn't mean that both or neither of them are as well. I feel like Kendall's action or lack of lashing out means that she's more adjusted to this news than Kylie, who is clearly lost and in need of parenting. 

That's actually interesting and I wonder if I would actually be devestated...I'm gonna think about that...probably not though...I'm not sure I would care enough, I barely do now. Lol

Kris and Bruce definitely dropped the parenting ball on the last child for sure and I agree with you that Bruce was selfish in many of his decisions. 

Thats why I kinda wished they just did a few specials with Diane as opposed to a reality show on E!  I'd like to see how much or little his knowing how he felt all these years damaged his ability to be a better parent because he was slightly absorbed with his own misery. This docuseries on E! just feels so cheap and another ratings ploy.


----------



## Jayne1

Yoshi1296 said:


> I was thinking, could it be that he was absent from his children's lives because *he thought he would be a bad influence on them since he was struggling with his identity?* He must've went through a lot of internal struggle and this could've been one of the issues that made him struggle.
> I'm not saying being trans is a bad influence (it is TOTALLY not a bad influence) I support the LGBT community but I was just thinking that that is maybe how he felt? Idk I don't want to get too deep into this since it is a sensitive topic and I don't want to come off as transphobic.


No, I think his 2nd wife explained it quite well when she said,  " Your dad may have been the world's greatest athlete physically, but emotionally, you have to view him in a wheelchair."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-thompson/bruce-jenner-linda-thompson_b_7080918.html


----------



## louvigilante

Coach Lover Too said:


> So.....his young daughters caught him on video taking their clothes out of this closet for his own personal use and he's the victim? Get real.
> By the way, I don't have a problem with the transgender society. It's Bruce I have the problem with.




He didn't take their clothes, what he said the only big floor length mirror in the house was in their room so he went in there to see what he looked like dressed in a dress. The computer camera caught him walking in and that's how the girls first found out he dressed as a female on the down low. 



Jayne1 said:


> No, I think his 2nd wife explained it quite well when she said,  " Your dad may have been the world's greatest athlete physically, but emotionally, you have to view him in a wheelchair."
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-thompson/bruce-jenner-linda-thompson_b_7080918.html




I really did like how she stated it.


----------



## guccimamma

good god, we all make fun of khloe for her fake butt/lips and call her absolutely ridiculous names...just like her mom and the rest of them.  i've picked up lots of good information from tpf...but i'm guessing most of us are not coming to the jenner/kardashian threads for intellectual growth. i get the feeling this is an overall very well-educated group of people who frequent these boards. ignorant is absolutely not a word i would use to describe anyone here. 

i thought we had moved on from that, but obviously not.

bruce is off limits now, because he wants to become a woman??? he has signed on to make millions documenting/exploiting this.  you can't make this stuff up. 

chaz bono rocked the "transition" and i don't think anyone made fun of him. i know i didn't.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

I don't know why I bother coming to this thread. The ignorance is OOC. Everyone deserves to be themselves. Just because you have kids doesn't mean that for the rest of your life, you give up you and your whole world revolves around them. He waited until he was a freaken senior citizen and when his kids were grown. Obviously he kept it in the majority of his life. None of us have any idea what it's like to go through what he and many others have gone through and so we shouldn't be so quick to judge. I guess I'd expect more understanding. Whatevs.

Added: and I agree he should have been there for his kids. But I think that's a separate topic. Coming out as gay or trans CANNOT be easy for ANYbody. Even if he got paid. Money makes it easier but it does not mean eternal happiness.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

gaitrees said:


> i see your point and i do think it would have been plausible if he didn't remarry a woman with 4 children and proceeded to have another 2. I do think if he stayed away from his own children and tried to figure out his own situation i would have had more empathy for him.



+1


----------



## bisbee

Coach Lover Too said:


> When you have children, your wants and needs no longer matter. The fact that he knew and has admitted to it leads me to believe that his own selfishness took precedence over his kids feelings.
> I would rather go to my grave continuing to be miserable than to hurt my children the way he's obviously hurt his young daughters. But he's not selfish? Uh, ok.


 
My response is not about Bruce Jenner, but only about your comment.

I disagree...when you have children, their wants and needs come first, but your wants and needs DO matter.  Total sacrifice for your children is not healthy for parents or children.

I am certainly NOT linking this to Bruce Jenner's treatment of his children, good and/or bad.  Just wanted to temper that statement a bit.


----------



## shiny_things

Look this is really not hard to understand.

Calling Bruce out on his lack of parenting or making fun of him as a person = OK.
Doing that whilst using transphobic language or phrases = not OK.

Replace those trans phrases with terms for race or homophobic language and it's easy to see why it's offensive. You wouldn't criticise somebody for something and mention the colour of their skin or sexuality would you?


----------



## blackkitty4378

I'm not saying that because Bruce is a parent his needs don't matter. I just don't think that they should have mattered to the point of having four children with two different wives, leaving them and not even sending a birthday card in the mail, to then marry Kris and have ANOTHER two kids, which he did a better job with, but still gave up on when they became teenagers. That is pure selfishness IMO.

If you have four kids that you basically have basically abandoned, why does it make sense to have 2 more? He's selfish and if he had stopped at four and continued transitioning that would be different for me but he continued to have Kendall and Kylie so much later in life for what reason? Probably some mid-life crisis.

Parenting is a job that you sign up for and you need to take responsibility for your actions. Lots of people, not just here, give bad parents a pass for their behavior and I think there needs to be higher standards.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Don't flame me please.............

He was seen on surveillance video in his daughter's room because there is only one full length mirror in that whole house? A house close to 9000 sq ft.?

I thought they loved mirrors, everywhere.


----------



## Freckles1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm the one that made that *insensitive* comment.
> I'm still trying to figure out what he thought he could borrow that would actually fit him! (Hope that's not too insensitive either!)




You make me giggle out loud


----------



## Encore Hermes

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm the one that made that *insensitive* comment.
> I'm still trying to figure out what he thought he could borrow that would actually fit him! (Hope that's not too insensitive either!)



I said that too. What did he think would fit?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Thank gawd it's not just me.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm not saying that because Bruce is a parent his needs don't matter. I just don't think that they should have mattered to the point of having four children with two different wives, leaving them and not even sending a birthday card in the mail, to then marry Kris and have ANOTHER two kids, which he did a better job with, but still gave up on when they became teenagers. That is pure selfishness IMO.
> 
> If you have four kids that you basically have basically abandoned, why does it make sense to have 2 more? He's selfish and if he had stopped at four and continued transitioning that would be different for me but he continued to have Kendall and Kylie so much later in life for what reason? Probably some mid-life crisis.
> 
> Parenting is a job that you sign up for and you need to take responsibility for your actions. Lots of people, not just here, give bad parents a pass for their behavior and I think there needs to be higher standards.



Thank you for explaining it better than I could have.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Kitties Are Cute said:


> I don't know why I bother coming to this thread. The ignorance is OOC. Everyone deserves to be themselves. Just because you have kids doesn't mean that for the rest of your life, you give up you and your whole world revolves around them. He waited until he was a freaken senior citizen and when his kids were grown. Obviously he kept it in the majority of his life. None of us have any idea what it's like to go through what he and many others have gone through and so we shouldn't be so quick to judge. I guess I'd expect more understanding. Whatevs.
> 
> Added: and I agree he should have been there for his kids. But I think that's a separate topic. Coming out as gay or trans CANNOT be easy for ANYbody. Even if he got paid. Money makes it easier but it does not mean eternal happiness.




I totally agree with everything you said.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

yoshi1296 said:


> i totally agree with everything you said.



+1


----------



## Oryx816

Encore Hermes said:


> Don't flame me please.............
> 
> He was seen on surveillance video in his daughter's room because there is only one full length mirror in that whole house? A house close to 9000 sq ft.?
> 
> I thought they loved mirrors, everywhere.





+1!  I don't watch the show but I found it questionable at best that these self absorbed people would have only one full length mirror in their entire house!


----------



## blackkitty4378

Coach Lover Too said:


> Thank you for explaining it better than I could have.



No problem  I must admit I'm rather passionate about this topic I grew up in a narcissistic family similar to the K's (except not fame whores obviously, just self-centered to the point of dysfunction and abuse) my parents were nonexistent I've essentially had to raise myself. It's been quite a journey of my own and I've made a lot of mistakes along the way. I will never stop raising awareness for this topic and I want other people to be aware of the effects it can have on people.


----------



## louvigilante

Oryx816 said:


> +1!  I don't watch the show but I found it questionable at best that these self absorbed people would have only one full length mirror in their entire house!




I thought so too but that is what he said.


----------



## pukasonqo

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm not saying that because Bruce is a parent his needs don't matter. I just don't think that they should have mattered to the point of having four children with two different wives, leaving them and not even sending a birthday card in the mail, to then marry Kris and have ANOTHER two kids, which he did a better job with, but still gave up on when they became teenagers. That is pure selfishness IMO.
> 
> If you have four kids that you basically have basically abandoned, why does it make sense to have 2 more? He's selfish and if he had stopped at four and continued transitioning that would be different for me but he continued to have Kendall and Kylie so much later in life for what reason? Probably some mid-life crisis.
> 
> Parenting is a job that you sign up for and you need to take responsibility for your actions. Lots of people, not just here, give bad parents a pass for their behavior and I think there needs to be higher standards.




yup
bruce's transgender journey (or whatever anybody wants to call it) and his sexuality are separate issues to his parenting
if he is an awful parent why not call him on it, being transgender does not give you a pass, why should it? is like giving a pass to bad parents based on their skin colour
maybe he'll donate the ka$h or use it to start a foundation to help young LGBT. he knows how hard is so he is in a good position to help others going through a similar experience
not holding my breath on that one bt, who knows...


----------



## uhpharm01

Encore Hermes said:


> Don't flame me please.............
> 
> He was seen on surveillance video in his daughter's room because there is only one full length mirror in that whole house? A house close to 9000 sq ft.?
> 
> I thought they loved mirrors, everywhere.



Same here.


----------



## Eva1991

Kitties Are Cute said:


> I don't know why I bother coming to this thread. The ignorance is OOC. Everyone deserves to be themselves. Just because you have kids doesn't mean that for the rest of your life, you give up you and your whole world revolves around them. He waited until he was a freaken senior citizen and when his kids were grown. Obviously he kept it in the majority of his life. None of us have any idea what it's like to go through what he and many others have gone through and so we shouldn't be so quick to judge. I guess I'd expect more understanding. Whatevs.
> 
> Added: and I agree he should have been there for his kids. But I think that's a separate topic. Coming out as gay or trans CANNOT be easy for ANYbody. Even if he got paid. Money makes it easier but it does not mean eternal happiness.



+1000000

I'm not a parent but I don't believe that once you become one you must put your life on hold. Besides, I've always thought that good parents are those who are happy and confident about themselves. Parenting does involve great sacrifices but it shouldn't lead to complete abandonment of one's self.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Interesting comments on this link, especially the person that claims to be transgender.


Sheila  &#8226;  12 hours ago                     
                          "Being  a transgender myself, I really do not believe that Bruce is  transgender.  I think this is all a ploy for the new reality show.  He  shows no signs of transitioning.  The way he refers to himself in third  person as if he has more than one identity is a red flag.  Also, there  is nothing  feminine about him.  He  walks, talks. dresses and acts all man.  If anything he may be a  transvestite, which is totally different than transgender." 


https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/bruce-jenners-emotional-bruce-promo-233800980.html


----------



## shiny_things

Thing is anyone on the internet can say anything. I really would take that with a pinch of salt.


----------



## AEGIS

prettyprincess said:


> This is so interesting to me. Its ok to call certain female celebrities prostitutes and whores, tear their looks to shreds, and demean them in every possible way, but now forum members should be sensitive when discussing Bruce??



LOL....I literally thought the same thing....sorry..."anyone can get it, even fans in the stands."/Pharell

if ppl are not prepared to read and see dissenting opinions idk what world they live in....just go talk to your friends irl who all agree w.you.


----------



## AEGIS

chowlover2 said:


> What still confuses me is the fact he did hormone replacement, a breast enlargement and electrolysis to remove his beard ( can you imagine how painful that was? ) for 5 yrs. He then meets PMK and throws it all out the window and starts family #3. It's so as though he was quite committed at that point. PMK must have a magic va-jay-jay...



I mean the devil is always tempting

Bruce has slutty taste in clothes....I saw that dress he pulled out to show Diane Sawyer and I thought....that's where Kylie gets it from


----------



## AEGIS

shiny_things said:


> Look this is really not hard to understand.
> 
> Calling Bruce out on his lack of parenting or making fun of him as a person = OK.
> Doing that whilst using transphobic language or phrases = not OK.
> 
> Replace those trans phrases with terms for race or homophobic language and it's easy to see why it's offensive. You wouldn't criticise somebody for something and mention the colour of their skin or sexuality would you?



race and gender are not the same though.  i see the attempt at this comparison often but it is not. it's like when ppl try to compare sexuality to race.  it is not the same at all.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

shiny_things said:


> Thing is anyone on the internet can say anything. I really would take that with a pinch of salt.



I agree, but the person did make a great point.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Three ex-wives, six children and all these years later he decides to be open about his choices. 
I find his timing suspect.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Coach Lover Too said:


> Three ex-wives, six children and all these years later he decides to be open about his choices.
> I find his timing suspect.




I think this time was good for Bruce because his children are older and more understanding and can take care of themselves now (even if he didn't really take care of the children from his previous marriages).


----------



## shiny_things

AEGIS said:


> race and gender are not the same though.  i see the attempt at this comparison often but it is not. it's like when ppl try to compare sexuality to race.  it is not the same at all.



I'm not saying they are, my point was if you use a discriminatory/derogatory word or phrase when criticising someone for something completely irrelevant, that's what makes it offensive.

For example: 'Bruce is a terrible parent' = OK
                    'Bruce is a terrible transgender parent' = not OK.

Replace the 'transgender' with 'black' or 'gay' and you can easily see why it's not appropriate. That is what people were essentially doing. Criticise Bruce all you like, but when you bring in his trangenderism and use it in a derogatory way to criticise him, you are being bigoted.

I really don't understand what people don't get about it. No one is saying you can't criticise Bruce.


----------



## Yoshi1296

shiny_things said:


> I'm not saying they are, my point was if you use a discriminatory/derogatory word or phrase when criticising someone for something completely irrelevant, that's what makes it offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> For example: 'Bruce is a terrible parent' = OK
> 
> 'Bruce is a terrible transgender parent' = not OK.
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the 'transgender' with 'black' or 'gay' and you can easily see why it's not appropriate. That is what people were essentially doing. Criticise Bruce all you like, but when you bring in his trangenderism and use it in a derogatory way to criticise him, you are being bigoted.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't understand what people don't get about it. No one is saying you can't criticise Bruce.




Yes! Thank you!


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Interesting comments on this link, especially the person that claims to be transgender.
> 
> 
> Sheila    12 hours ago
> "Being  a transgender myself, I really do not believe that Bruce is  transgender.  I think this is all a ploy for the new reality show.  He  shows no signs of transitioning.  The way he refers to himself in third  person as if he has more than one identity is a red flag.  Also, there  is nothing  feminine about him.  He  walks, talks. dresses and acts all man.  If anything he may be a  transvestite, which is totally different than transgender."
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/bruce-jenners-emotional-bruce-promo-233800980.html



I do like an expert point of view and this may be one. We were discussing, before some of us got shamed out of a discussion, that Bruce doesn't seem very female, in his mannerisms.  And this person, who may be transgender and perhaps with more of an understanding, said the same thing.


----------



## bisousx

I suppose if you consider random, anonymous commenters on articles to be experts.


----------



## Swanky

One size doesn't fit all...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Yoshi1296 said:


> I think this time was good for Bruce because his children are older and more understanding and can take care of themselves now (even if he didn't really take care of the children from his previous marriages).




....and I think the time would have been good *before* he had kids, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

So...transgender people shouldn't want children?

Hmmm...interesting perspective..


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bisousx said:


> I suppose if you consider random, anonymous commenters on articles to be experts.



Expert or not, they made a great point. Seems as though a lot of people are questioning his credibility.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> So...transgender people shouldn't want children?
> 
> Hmmm...interesting perspective..



Not while they're pretending to be something they're not. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Had he been truthful and upfront from the very beginning, then most certainly, but don't have children while living your life as a lie and then expect them to pick up the pieces years later when you decide to come clean.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Don't put words in your mouth? Coming from someone who repeatedly and wrongly accuses other posters of hailing this guy as a hero..I find that amusing.

For many people, having the courage to come out as transgender takes decades. In the meantime they have to live their lives.

Bruce obviously loved PMK (as much as I find her abhorrent) enough to stop his treatment, and try and live that life, to have kids.

To me, it speaks more to confusion than outright deception.  I don't think he handled it well (as he admitted himself) and I shudder at the thought of the E! Series. 

But just because I believe his transgender journey, and try to understand what caused his actions..doesn't mean I think Bruce is a saint.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Coach Lover Too said:


> ....and I think the time would have been good *before* he had kids, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.



Oh boy...


----------



## Yoshi1296

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Don't put words in your mouth? Coming from someone who repeatedly and wrongly accuses other posters of hailing this guy as a hero..I find that amusing.
> 
> For many people, having the courage to come out as transgender takes decades. In the meantime they have to live their lives.
> 
> Bruce obviously loved PMK (as much as I find her abhorrent) enough to stop his treatment, and try and live that life, to have kids.
> 
> To me, it speaks more to confusion than outright deception.  I don't think he handled it well (as he admitted himself) and I shudder at the thought of the E! Series.
> 
> But just because I believe his transgender journey, and try to understand what caused his actions..doesn't mean I think Bruce is a saint.



YES 100% agree!


----------



## blackkitty4378

I think people, regardless of being transgender/gay/straight should take into account more than just their "want" to have children&#8230; I can only imagine how his older four children must have felt to not only have their father basically abandon them, but then marry Kris and then have two other kids, be more involved in those two kids' lives more than he ever was in theirs, as if they don't even exist&#8230; that must have been painful and I can understand their resentment. It seems as though (at least on the show, anyways) he's trying to make up for it now.

Linda Thompson put it perfectly, he's "emotionally handicapped." It makes sense, I can empathize with him, but what he did to his children will never be okay in my eyes.

Good for him for coming out as transgender, regardless. I hope he can live out the rest of his days happy and at peace, and that he continues to spend time with and guide all of his children the best he can.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Here's the thing. His kids that he apparently wasn't there for and his kids now accept it and love him in spite of everything. And his ex-wives wish him well. If his kids and ex-wives are fine with it, isn't that all that matters?


----------



## Jayne1

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Here's the thing. His kids that he apparently wasn't there for and his kids now accept it and love him in spite of everything. And his ex-wives wish him well. If his kids and ex-wives are fine with it, isn't that all that matters?


He married some pretty terrific women, because they both said, if he had told them, they would not have married him (and had kids.) Which is not to say they don't adore and are grateful for their children, just that they would not have gone through with the marriages, as much as they loved him.

Terrific women, because they are so loving towards him, still.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Don't put words in your mouth? Coming from someone who repeatedly and wrongly accuses other posters of hailing this guy as a hero..I find that amusing.
> 
> For many people, having the courage to come out as transgender takes decades. In the meantime they have to live their lives.
> 
> Bruce obviously loved PMK (as much as I find her abhorrent) enough to stop his treatment, and try and live that life, to have kids.
> 
> To me, it speaks more to confusion than outright deception.  I don't think he handled it well (as he admitted himself) and I shudder at the thought of the E! Series.
> 
> But just because I believe his transgender journey, and try to understand what caused his actions..doesn't mean I think Bruce is a saint.



+10000 Bruce comes from a different time, a time when even being gay was  considered horrible and shameful. But he was TRANS, which is far more  rare and difficult for people to understand, so the backlash with that  combined with his public image of being this man's man would have  been... I can't even imagine. It's not like he didn't struggle with it tremendously  and just simply decided to lie to his wives and have kids. Plus, I'm not sure if he told each wife BEFORE or after he had the kids, but for Kris, she definitely knew BEFORE. And she still decided to have kids with him. So it was both the wives AND his choice, knowing that he was struggling with his gender identity.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

+1 @Jayne.

They are amazingly strong women. It must have been so difficult and heartbreaking for them. And not just for them..but as a mother..the concern for how their kids would handle it as well.


----------



## Jayne1

Kitties Are Cute said:


> +10000 Bruce comes from a different time, a time when even being gay was  considered horrible and shameful. But he was TRANS, which is far more  rare and difficult for people to understand, so the backlash with that  combined with his public image of being this man's man would have  been... I can't even imagine. It's not like he didn't struggle with it tremendously  and just simply decided to lie to his wives and have kids.* Plus, I'm not sure if he told each wife BEFORE or after he had the kids,* but for Kris, she definitely knew BEFORE. And she still decided to have kids with him. So it was both the wives AND his choice, knowing that he was struggling with his gender identity.


Linda wrote in the essay I linked to previously, that she most certainly did not know before and his first wife said the same. She said she would not have married him if he had told her.  Read it -- it's a beautiful and well-written article.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Jayne1 said:


> Linda wrote in the essay I linked to previously, that she most certainly did not know before and his first wife said the same. She said she would not have married him if he had told her.  Read it -- it's a beautiful and well-written article.



Definitely will when I get a minute. But Kris knew, and she still decided to have kids with him.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I don't know. This is all because of Bruce's actions. Bruce could have thought twice before he had all of those kids and chose to put his needs before theirs, which makes him a bad parent IMO. Those were things that he did, not things that happened to him.

I'm glad that his family is "fine" with it. Not everyone can be "fine" with having a parent abandon them without any concern for their feelings. It often takes years of therapy for people to get over something like that and I'm not sure if they didn't have great mothers if they would be in such a good place. I'm glad they can take the high road, though. It takes a very mature mind set and a lot of compassion to do that.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> ]I don't know. This is all because of Bruce's actions. Bruce could have thought twice before he had all of those kids and chose to put his needs before theirs, which makes him a bad parent IMO. Those were things that he did, not things that happened to him.[/B]
> 
> I'm glad that his family is "fine" with it. Not everyone can be "fine" with having a parent abandon them without any concern for their feelings. It often takes years of therapy for people to get over something like that and I'm not sure if they didn't have great mothers if they would be in such a good place. I'm glad they can take the high road, though. It takes a very mature mind set and a lot of compassion to do that.



My sentiments exactly.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Here's the thing. His kids that he apparently wasn't there for and his kids now accept it and love him in spite of everything. And his ex-wives wish him well. If his kids and ex-wives are fine with it, isn't that all that matters?


 
+1 Seriously people are holding grudges and hard feelings that his own family don't even hold. According to them he's trying to make amends and according to them they just want him to do what makes him happy. Some people here act like accepting that you're transgender is an easy thing let alone something that would of been easy to do in the friggen 70/80s when the majority believed just being gay was a sin can't imagine the sh*t he would of faced had he done it back then.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I don't think anyone here is holding grudges or hard feelings towards him. He intentionally put himself in the public eye and that comes with the things he says and does being dissected.

I agree with whoever it was that said he's confused. To me, his personality seems to have changed during the process. Maybe that's what Kendall meant when she said she didn't want to lose her dad. Who knows.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I'm pretty sure that Brody has expressed that he had resentment against Bruce for not being a parent to him for all of those years.

This is nothing personal towards Bruce and I'm not holding a grudge against him. It's just my opinion of him. I'm allowed to have an opinion just like you are.


----------



## V0N1B2

Coach Lover Too said:


> Interesting comments on this link, especially the person that claims to be transgender.
> Sheila    12 hours ago
> "Being  a transgender myself, I really do not believe that Bruce is  transgender.  I think this is all a ploy for the new reality show.  He  shows no signs of transitioning.  The way he refers to himself in third  person as if he has more than one identity is a red flag.  Also, there  is nothing  feminine about him.  He  walks, talks. dresses and acts all man.  If anything he may be a  transvestite, which is totally different than transgender."
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/bruce-jenners-emotional-bruce-promo-233800980.html


I find it interesting that someone claiming to be transgendered spoke out and because it goes against the grain of opinions in this thread, her opinion and the possibility that it wasn't even a real post is completely discounted.
Why is that?  Can anyone prove "Sheila" isn't transgendered? or that it wasn't a real post?

I think Sheila is right.  I also think Bruce is a transvestite.  I think he likes to dress up in women's clothes and wants to feel pretty - while keeping his manbits.  He was adamant that he was hetero, that he was not gay, and that he was not attracted to men.  I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what makes a straight hetero man want to become a woman and still date women as a woman?  I get the feeling of not being born in the right body and his struggle with that but aren't most transgendered people gay before their transformation?  
When he fully transitions, I will gladly eat my weight in cheese (and a little crow, if it makes y'all feel better)

I have no ill will towards him and you know, good luck and be happy... whatever butters your muffin and all that. pip pip!




*disclaimer
_The views and opinions contained in this post are the personal opinions of V0N1B2 and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators, administrators, or forum owners of The Purse Forum, hereafter referred to as TPF.  These opinions should be taken with two xanax and an ounce of vodka.  Opinions should not be read while operating heavy machinery, near an open flame or clutching pearls.  All posts and opinions from the author should not be read by persons with high blood pressure, low self-esteem, sensitivity to snark, no sense of humour or those with an overactive bladder.  No animals were harmed while typing this post._


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If I didn't know better, I'd swear this was a Bruce Jenner Fan Club thread.
I can see why people are hesitant to post but I've never been easily intimidated so I'll continue to give my opinion.

I agree with you VON1B2. Your disclaimer cracked me up. I needed that laugh!


----------



## AEGIS

blackkitty4378 said:


> I don't know. This is all because of Bruce's actions. Bruce could have thought twice before he had all of those kids and chose to put his needs before theirs, which makes him a bad parent IMO. Those were things that he did, not things that happened to him.
> 
> I'm glad that his family is "fine" with it. Not everyone can be "fine" with having a parent abandon them without any concern for their feelings. It often takes years of therapy for people to get over something like that and I'm not sure if they didn't have great mothers if they would be in such a good place. I'm glad they can take the high road, though. It takes a very mature mind set and a lot of compassion to do that.



...Brody said when he found out Bruce was really a woman his first thought was "it all makes sense."  It being Bruce's sh*tty behavior.  Bruce got married--but he really did not have to have all of those kids. I think he had kids to try to reaffirm his masculinity


----------



## DesigningStyle

guccimamma said:


> he took 5 million dollars to televise his transition.. i don't need to feel sympathy or compassion for him.  he's been well compensated for his story.  it doesn't sound like he's been a compassionate man throughout his life, or he wouldn't have ended up with a woman like kris.
> 
> so he's been trapped in someone else's body? lots of people have much worse problems than this guy.  he has the money and the time for self discovery in malibu for the rest of his life.



Agree 100%  Great post.



Charles said:


> ...making a decent decision by dating Tyga.  Even is she isn't, it's not really his place to do something about it....



There you are wrong.  It is a parent's place to do something about it.  That is what parents do.  Parents make decisions and dictate their children's lives until they are adults.



FreeSpirit71 said:


> So tired of people in this thread accusing others of giving Bruce "a medal", a "free pass" or hailing him as a hero.  Never happened.
> 
> Both in the Kris and Bruce thread its been stated while people can understand the conflict for Bruce, it doesn't spare him from his parental duties. He should have been strong for his kids. He wasn't. He let Kris and the older girls take his spine..Kylie is the result.
> 
> But I see some comments here that are beyond the pale.
> 
> *"dad of the year drove them to school in the mornings and then went home and tried on their clothes."*
> 
> Seriously?  If thats not some mean a$$ snark directed at his transgender journey.....ugh.



Sorry, but that comment made me hoot!  Seriously, if it had been Kris driving the kids to school and then trying on their clothes we would be rolling!



Encore Hermes said:


> "even found it funny in his interview *when he mentioned all the times the K's were blaming each other for stealing each other's clothes when it was really him"*
> 
> Did he think their clothes would fit him?


----------



## DesigningStyle

chowlover2 said:


> What still confuses me is the fact he did hormone replacement, a breast enlargement and electrolysis to remove his beard ( can you imagine how painful that was? ) for 5 yrs. He then meets PMK and throws it all out the window and starts family #3. It's so as though he was quite committed at that point. PMK must have a magic va-jay-jay...



Confuses me too.



GaitreeS said:


> Yea, I'm done with this thread for now. If you say anything about "Bruce" as a person you're being intolerant. I could be wrong, but I don't think I've read one post here where people are making fun of him being transgender.
> 
> Too sensitive.



I agree.  Some are very sensitive here.  I am surprised.



Coach Lover Too said:


> You noticed that too huh?
> 
> Some people seem to forget this is a Bruce Jenner thread. Not a transgender/confused identity thread. I question his sincerity.



Agreed.



Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm the one that made that *insensitive* comment.
> I'm still trying to figure out what he thought he could borrow that would actually fit him! (Hope that's not too insensitive either!)



Not at all.  For gosh sake.  Bruce himself laughed at himself about makeup, nailpolish and dresses.  I saw him laugh at himself.



guccimamma said:


> good god, we all make fun of khloe for her fake butt/lips and call her absolutely ridiculous names...just like her mom and the rest of them.  i've picked up lots of good information from tpf...but i'm guessing most of us are not coming to the jenner/kardashian threads for intellectual growth. i get the feeling this is an overall very well-educated group of people who frequent these boards. ignorant is absolutely not a word i would use to describe anyone here.
> 
> i thought we had moved on from that, but obviously not.
> 
> bruce is off limits now, because he wants to become a woman??? he has signed on to make millions documenting/exploiting this.  you can't make this stuff up.
> 
> chaz bono rocked the "transition" and i don't think anyone made fun of him. i know i didn't.



Spot on.



shiny_things said:


> Look this is really not hard to understand.
> 
> Calling Bruce out on his lack of parenting or making fun of him as a person = OK.
> Doing that whilst using transphobic language or phrases = not OK.
> 
> Replace those trans phrases with terms for race or homophobic language and it's easy to see why it's offensive. You wouldn't criticise somebody for something and mention the colour of their skin or sexuality would you?



I seriously do not even know what a "transphobic phrase" is.  I had to google it.  Here is a handy chart http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/words_that_are_transphobic_why.php  Are members here doing any of this?


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

I'm not even a fan of Bruce, but I defend his coming out as courageous, because I believe it is. For ANYONE to come out as anything different than what people expect or think they are takes a LOT of strength. Money doesn't change that. I'm sure Bruce and anyone trans would easily give up 5 million dollars or more to feel comfortable in the body they were born into. There are some things you can't put prices on. Confidence, self esteem, feeling like yourself are all priceless. There's a reason why a lot of super filthy rich people are unhappy. They have everything materially speaking, but are lacking the immaterial things that create true happiness. 

So please don't say that just because we disagree we are fans. He's whatevs to me but I would say the same thing about any person in his position.


----------



## DesigningStyle

AEGIS said:


> ...Brody said when he found out Bruce was really a woman his first thought was "it all makes sense."  It being Bruce's sh*tty behavior.  Bruce got married--but he really did not have to have all of those kids. I think he had kids to try to reaffirm his masculinity



Wonder what "all made sense" to him?  The fact that he was distant from his children is certainly not a womanly trait.  I would have thought his woman within would have made him even more involved and nurturing.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

DesigningStyle said:


> Wonder what "all made sense" to him?  The fact that he was distant from his children is certainly not a womanly trait.  I would have thought his woman within would have made him even more involved and nurturing.




I think the kids once saw Bruce with his 36b breasts.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

I like how if you're not hating you're a fan.This isn't black and white. Is the hate for the Kardashians so over the top that people can't stand to see anyone have a little empathy for one of them?


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I like how if you're not hating you're a fan.This isn't black and white. Is the hate for the Kardashians so over the top that people can't stand to see anyone have a little empathy for one of them?




So this!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I like how if you're not hating you're a fan.This isn't black and white. Is the hate for the Kardashians so over the top that people can't stand to see anyone have a little empathy for one of them?



It doesn't matter how many posts you, me or anyone else make saying we don't agree with Bruce's decisions as a parent, but that we are trying to see what was going on behind it...tunnel-visioned posters will just ignore the fact that on this point we're actually agreeing with them on the parenting issue and continue to argue the point...lol.

I mean, really? Understanding does not = a fan, just as disagreeing does not = a hater. (Who uses that word besides 12 year olds and Kardashians anyhow?)


----------



## blackkitty4378

FreeSpirit71 said:


> It doesn't matter how many posts you, me or anyone else make saying we don't agree with Bruce's decisions as a parent, but that we are trying to see what was going on behind it...tunnel-visioned posters will just ignore the fact that on this point we're actually agreeing with them on the parenting issue and continue to argue the point...lol.
> 
> I mean, really? Understanding does not = a fan, just as disagreeing does not = a hater. (Who uses that word besides 12 year olds and Kardashians anyhow?)



Agree. And just because I strongly disagree with his actions as a parent, does not mean that I'm not understanding of his transgender/identity issues and that I don't have empathy. I've tried to show that in my posts but I don't think it came across the way I intended it to.


----------



## V0N1B2

I don't actually think anyone in this thread is a Bruce Jenner "Fan", nor are they Bruce Jenner "Haters".  However, it is a Bruce Jenner thread - in a gossip section no less.  It's not a Trangendered Awareness and Sensitivity thread.  

So here's the thing...
It seems like because Bruce is "trans" now, he has to be treated with kid gloves - like you have to be super PC about making some joke remark at the expense of coming off like you're some kind of ignorant hick.
Yet it's perfectly fine to make snarky remarks and comments about Kanye West and Riccardo whats-his-face being gay?  I see lots of comments about them being lovers *cough cough* and all kinds of little covert gay comments dropped in his thread all.the.time.  And it's not as if I have ever seen anyone jump to his defense about the gay comments.  It's almost as if one minority group holds more weight than the other.  Is it because he's not really gay?  Is it because it's funny to call him gay because it's some kind of derogatory slur?  If Kanye ends up coming out, would everyone then have to be super sensitive to his feelings?  Where is that imaginary line drawn, exactly?
Why is that tolerated and making a joke about Bruce looking like a lesbian PE teacher or stretching out Kendall's Altazurras is not?  They're all in good fun, aren't they?  

So... what's up with that?

Anyway coming back to Bruce, he's got really sh!tty taste in clothing.
Oh, and before I forget - and this is no joke - if he really wants to know what it feels like to be a woman, he should walk to his car one night, while being followed by one or two men much larger than himself.  He can learn to feel what it's like to wonder if you'll be robbed, attacked or raped.  He will never know what it's like to not feel safe.  
Either that, or get a job and make 78 cents for every dollar he would have been paid as "Bruce".  If he was a woman transitioning to a man, the documentary would have only been worth 3.9Million   *and that's the real joke*



_*disclaimer
The views and opinions contained in this post are the personal opinions of V0N1B2 and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators, administrators, or forum owners of The Purse Forum, hereafter referred to as TPF.  These opinions should be taken with two xanax and an ounce of vodka.  Opinions should not be read while operating heavy machinery, near an open flame or clutching pearls.  All posts and opinions from the author should not be read by persons with high blood pressure, low self-esteem, sensitivity to snark, no sense of humour or those with an overactive bladder.  No animals were harmed while typing this post._


----------



## chowlover2

While I am skeptical about the whole series in E!, I would feel a whole lot better about Bruce if he donated the $5 million to LGBT charities to really make a difference. If he's keeping the funds when it's quite clear he doesn't need them, he's getting the side eye from me.


----------



## blackkitty4378

V0N1B2 said:


> I don't actually think anyone in this thread is a Bruce Jenner "Fan", nor are they Bruce Jenner "Haters".  However, it is a Bruce Jenner thread - in a gossip section no less.  It's not a Trangendered Awareness and Sensitivity thread.
> 
> So here's the thing...
> It seems like because Bruce is "trans" now, he has to be treated with kid gloves - like you have to be super PC about making some joke remark at the expense of coming off like you're some kind of ignorant hick.
> *Yet it's perfectly fine to make snarky remarks and comments about Kanye West and Riccardo whats-his-face being gay?  I see lots of comments about them being lovers *cough cough* and all kinds of little covert gay comments dropped in his thread all.the.time.  And it's not as if I have ever seen anyone jump to his defense about the gay comments.  It's almost as if one minority group holds more weight than the other.  Is it because he's not really gay?  Is it because it's funny to call him gay because it's some kind of derogatory slur?  If Kanye ends up coming out, would everyone then have to be super sensitive to his feelings?  Where is that imaginary line drawn, exactly?*
> Why is that tolerated and making a joke about Bruce looking like a lesbian PE teacher or stretching out Kendall's Altazurras is not?  They're all in good fun, aren't they?
> 
> So... what's up with that?
> 
> Anyway coming back to Bruce, he's got really sh!tty taste in clothing.
> Oh, and before I forget - and this is no joke - if he really wants to know what it feels like to be a woman, he should walk to his car one night, while being followed by one or two men much larger than himself.  He can learn to feel what it's like to wonder if you'll be robbed, attacked or raped.  He will never know what it's like to not feel safe.
> Either that, or get a job and make 78 cents for every dollar he would have been paid as "Bruce".  If he was a woman transitioning to a man, the documentary would have only been worth 3.9Million   *and that's the real joke*
> 
> 
> 
> _*disclaimer
> The views and opinions contained in this post are the personal opinions of V0N1B2 and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators, administrators, or forum owners of The Purse Forum, hereafter referred to as TPF.  These opinions should be taken with two xanax and an ounce of vodka.  Opinions should not be read while operating heavy machinery, near an open flame or clutching pearls.  All posts and opinions from the author should not be read by persons with high blood pressure, low self-esteem, sensitivity to snark, no sense of humour or those with an overactive bladder.  No animals were harmed while typing this post._



You know, that's an interesting point. I don't really have an answer to that. I think it's because he might not actually be gay, and also because he's a lot more hated in general. People tend to like Bruce, and compared to PMK, he looks rather good and like the better parent.

Anyone else?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

For the record, I've never slurred Kanye either (aside from atrocious fashion designs and mammoth ego) I don't care if he's gay. I'm sure if he is, then coming out will be just as difficult for him because he's lived his life identifying (at least publicly) as a differing sexuality.

I guess its a gray area. 

One thing...why does Bruce have to experience the bad stuff to truly feel like a woman - when those are things we are trying to eradicate for ourselves as well? 

And if you think Bruce will escape physical threats, then you need to read up on transgender journeys. Even how heated the arguments have been here...its still been fairly civilised given its an inflammatory topic...its much, much worse in other areas of the Net. People saying Bruce and transgenders don't deserve to live etc and almost encouraging violence. 

Bruce's decision to publically out himself...while not in my realm of brave or heroic...may help others. And that's not a bad thing.

I'm reserving a side-eye for him and the E! Series. That's worrying. Because E! and the Kardashians are prone to sensationalism - and Bruce isn't immune from that criticism.

Agree @Chowlover...I think he should donate the dollars too.


----------



## chowlover2

FreeSpirit71 said:


> For the record, I've never slurred Kanye either (aside from atrocious fashion designs and mammoth ego) I don't care if he's gay. I'm sure if he is, then coming out will be just as difficult for him because he's lived his life identifying (at least publicly) as a differing sexuality.
> 
> I guess its a gray area.
> 
> One thing...why does Bruce have to experience the bad stuff to truly feel like a woman - when those are things we are trying to eradicate for ourselves as well?
> 
> And if you think Bruce will escape physical threats, then you need to read up on transgender journeys. Even how heated the arguments have been here...its still been fairly civilised given its an inflammatory topic...its much, much worse in other areas of the Net. People saying Bruce and transgenders don't deserve to live etc and almost encouraging violence.
> 
> Bruce's decision to publically out himself...while not in my realm of brave or heroic...may help others. And that's not a bad thing.
> 
> I'm reserving a side-eye for him and the E! Series. That's worrying. Because E! and the Kardashians are prone to sensationalism - and Bruce isn't immune from that criticism.
> 
> Agree @Chowlover...I think he should donate the dollars too.



Thank you! Unfortunately it takes $$$ to affect change in this world. If Bruce is sincere about changing the world, the funds from the show would be a good place to start.


----------



## Yoshi1296

V0N1B2 said:


> I don't actually think anyone in this thread is a Bruce Jenner "Fan", nor are they Bruce Jenner "Haters".  However, it is a Bruce Jenner thread - in a gossip section no less.  It's not a Trangendered Awareness and Sensitivity thread.
> 
> *So here's the thing...
> It seems like because Bruce is "trans" now, he has to be treated with kid gloves - like you have to be super PC about making some joke remark at the expense of coming off like you're some kind of ignorant hick.
> Yet it's perfectly fine to make snarky remarks and comments about Kanye West and Riccardo whats-his-face being gay?  I see lots of comments about them being lovers *cough cough* and all kinds of little covert gay comments dropped in his thread all.the.time.  And it's not as if I have ever seen anyone jump to his defense about the gay comments.  It's almost as if one minority group holds more weight than the other.  Is it because he's not really gay?  Is it because it's funny to call him gay because it's some kind of derogatory slur?  If Kanye ends up coming out, would everyone then have to be super sensitive to his feelings?  Where is that imaginary line drawn, exactly?
> Why is that tolerated and making a joke about Bruce looking like a lesbian PE teacher or stretching out Kendall's Altazurras is not?  They're all in good fun, aren't they?  *
> 
> So... what's up with that?
> 
> Anyway coming back to Bruce, he's got really sh!tty taste in clothing.
> Oh, and before I forget - and this is no joke - if he really wants to know what it feels like to be a woman, he should walk to his car one night, while being followed by one or two men much larger than himself.  He can learn to feel what it's like to wonder if you'll be robbed, attacked or raped.  He will never know what it's like to not feel safe.
> Either that, or get a job and make 78 cents for every dollar he would have been paid as "Bruce".  If he was a woman transitioning to a man, the documentary would have only been worth 3.9Million   *and that's the real joke*
> 
> 
> 
> _*disclaimer
> The views and opinions contained in this post are the personal opinions of V0N1B2 and do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators, administrators, or forum owners of The Purse Forum, hereafter referred to as TPF.  These opinions should be taken with two xanax and an ounce of vodka.  Opinions should not be read while operating heavy machinery, near an open flame or clutching pearls.  All posts and opinions from the author should not be read by persons with high blood pressure, low self-esteem, sensitivity to snark, no sense of humour or those with an overactive bladder.  No animals were harmed while typing this post._



Uh no its not fun. It is offensive. And I said something a long time ago in the Kim and Kanye thread that making fun of him and Riccardo like that is offensive and rude. I still don't understand why people call others "gay" in a derogatory way. It's ignorant and says a lot about their personalities. One thing a tpf member said that really pushed my buttons was "trans-jenner." That tpf member should have been banned in my opinion. Totally disgusting.

And just because it is a Bruce Jenner thread and not a "Transgendered Awareness and Sensitivity Thread" doesn't make the transphobic comments on here okay. 

Thot, Hoe, Wh*re, Sl*t, Gay, etc. are all horrible words and no one deserves to be called that.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

chowlover2 said:


> While I am skeptical about the whole series in E!, I would feel a whole lot better about Bruce if he donated the $5 million to LGBT charities to really make a difference. If he's keeping the funds when it's quite clear he doesn't need them, he's getting the side eye from me.



+1
I posted this same thing the other day!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

No surprise here.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...ruce-jenner-special-completely-choreographed/


----------



## pukasonqo

Coach Lover Too said:


> +1
> I posted this same thing the other day!




great minds think alike, i also said the same thing
but yes, i would like to see him doing something towards the LGBT community, and i understand that  not everyone has the motivation to be some kind of torch bearer but he is undergoing his gender reassignation in such a public manner that it would be a great opportunity to make a positive input towards understanding of those issues that the LGBT has to deal with
mmmhhh, i'll get off my soap box, no help needed!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> No surprise here.
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...ruce-jenner-special-completely-choreographed/



Lawd...that just fills me with dread. This could be such a good opportunity for an informative,  sensitively done show. But it just sounds like the same old sh*t from the K-Klan.

Really trying to keep an open mind here..not because of the Kardashians, but because others would benefit if it's done well.

I sense PMK's hands (and Bruce's willingness to either take the bucks and/or do what she says) are all over this.

I guess we'll see...


----------



## Encore Hermes

" The idea that this was the first time Bruce told the family is ridiculous, sources told RadarOnline.com, and no one should fall for it.

The big reveal for Keeping up with the Kardashians: About Bruce was choreographed down to the minute by producers, and was only filmed two months ago, sources told RadarOnline.com."

_Not for one second do I believe he would break the news to the family in front of cameras, I am sure they have known for a long time._


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Lawd...that just fills me with dread. This could be such a good opportunity for an informative,  sensitively done show. But it just sounds like the same old sh*t from the K-Klan.
> 
> Really trying to keep an open mind here..not because of the Kardashians, but because others would benefit if it's done well.
> 
> I sense PMK's hands (and Bruce's willingness to either take the bucks and/or do what she says) are all over this.
> 
> I guess we'll see...



I so agree with you. I think it's because of this that I have such a hard time being empathetic towards him. My feelings towards him have nothing to do with the transgender society as a whole, it's just hard for me to take Bruce serious at this point.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Tmz mentioned the 'show' 


.........Bruce Jenner's docuseries will have plenty of serious, eye-opening moments, but there will also be plenty of fun, including how Bruce will adapt his golf game with newly-formed breasts. 
Sources connected with the production tell TMZ, the goal of the 8-part docuseries is to educate people and provide hope and inspiration for those going through the challenges Bruce has faced. But as one source put it, "If all you have is a downer, you don't have a show."  
So we're told the show will have a balance, showing "the dark moments, the lighthearted moments and moments that are just plain hilarious."
Our production sources say Bruce's golf game will be front and center. Bruce is a great golfer, and apparently it's not an easy transition to swing with breasts.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/04/28/bruce-jenner-docuseries-humor-golf-breasts/#ixzz3ZlLwfkAC


----------



## Hobbsy

I don't know why it has to be such a big deal anywhere or on TV or have a series about it. Lord, if you want to be a woman, go do it, if not,  don't.


----------



## AEGIS

DesigningStyle said:


> Wonder what "all made sense" to him?  The fact that he was distant from his children is certainly not a womanly trait.  I would have thought his woman within would have made him even more involved and nurturing.



No his dad's distance.  His sons once saw him w/breast and then told their mom.  I really wonder what that convo was between Bruce and Linda at that point bc she had left him already.  She may I have said I don't want my sons exposed to this sh*t or Bruce might have thought it himself.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Encore Hermes said:


> " The idea that this was the first time Bruce told the family is ridiculous, sources told RadarOnline.com, and no one should fall for it.
> 
> The big reveal for Keeping up with the Kardashians: About Bruce was choreographed down to the minute by producers, and was only filmed two months ago, sources told RadarOnline.com."
> 
> _Not for one second do I believe he would break the news to the family in front of cameras, I am sure they have known for a long time._




To tell them for the very first time in front of the cameras is pretty messed up so I don't really blame them for this.


----------



## Charles

Coach Lover Too said:


> When you have children, your wants and needs no longer matter. The fact that he knew and has admitted to it leads me to believe that his own selfishness took precedence over his kids feelings.



And this explains a lot.  I'm a parent and I believe that my wants and needs come first.  I need to be happy in order to provide a happy and supportive lifestyle for my son.  Now, I don't mean I was out partying, spending money on my and ignoring my son.  I just mean that I made certain lifestyle choices that meant I'd be more of a positive role model.  Did that mean I might have sacrificed some of my son's needs?  Perhaps, but I'll never know that.  Just like you'll never know how Bruce's kids would have turned out if he made different choices.  What I'm getting at is that it's pointless to assume your ideals are better, or worse for someone else's kids...especially when you're not the parent in that child's life.
I've watched their show, and sure...they seem bratty.  A lot of kids are bratty.  But Kylie also does a lot of good.

"Jenner set up an eBay account where she auctions old clothing to raise money for the Children's Hospital Los Angeles. The Kardashian and Jenner sisters used eBay in this way to raise $277,469.60 for their charites in 2013.[24] Jenner joined her family in a charity yard sale on November 10, 2013.[25] Proceeds from the sale were donation-matched and sent to Share Our Strength: No Kid Hungry and the Greater Los Angeles Fisher House Foundation. Kylie joined Khloe Kardashian, her sister Kendall, Lil Twist, and The Game at PINZ bowling alley in Studio City, California for a charity bowling game on January 19, 2014.[26] The event was held to raise money for The Robin Hood Foundation, a nonprofit for which The Game pledged to raise $1 million in donations. "

How much charity work do you do?


----------



## Charles

Sorry, just catching up...
Regarding the other comments about celebrities, I think **** shaming is terrible as well, but whatever.

This is what it boils down to for me.  This is a man who was in the spotlight for doing very manly things.  Hell, the NFL just recently had its first openly gay player and this is the 2010s!  So there's no way I can imagine what he was struggling with in the 80s/90s regarding his sexuality and gender.  Therefore, I have no place judging his involvement or lack of involvement in his loved one's lives.  
And i'll be honest, if he's just using this as a stunt, I'll be the first to criticize him, but hopefully he'll try to position this to raise awareness, acceptance, and do some good for other people who are struggling with gender identity issue.


----------



## Jayne1

Charles said:


> I've watched their show, and sure...they seem bratty.  A lot of kids are bratty.  But Kylie also does a lot of good.
> 
> "Jenner set up an eBay account where she auctions old clothing to raise money for the Children's Hospital Los Angeles. The Kardashian and Jenner sisters used eBay in this way to raise $277,469.60 for their charites in 2013.[24] Jenner joined her family in a charity yard sale on November 10, 2013.[25] Proceeds from the sale were donation-matched and sent to Share Our Strength: No Kid Hungry and the Greater Los Angeles Fisher House Foundation. Kylie joined Khloe Kardashian, her sister Kendall, Lil Twist, and The Game at PINZ bowling alley in Studio City, California for a charity bowling game on January 19, 2014.[26] The event was held to raise money for The Robin Hood Foundation, a nonprofit for which The Game pledged to raise $1 million in donations. "


I think Kris' assistants go through their old clothes and sell them. As for the yard sale, that was for the show.  The kids probably showed up on time, filmed an hour and left. They spend as much time on charity work as they did writing their novel.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Didn't they do an exposé about the difference between what they raised for charity and what they actually gave? Or was that only Kim?

_And though Kardashian&#8217;s financial records are private, and the church, as a tax-exempt organization, does not keep public records, Radar has uncovered 2012 tax documents from the company that processes charitable giving on eBay, revealing how much Kardashian gave, and how much she kept to herself.

According to the Paypal Charitable Giving Fund tax documents, Life Change Community Church received $19,975 after the auction. So how much did Kardashian keep?

She&#8217;s said, &#8220;When the eBay numbers get broken down, the auction management agency that posts for me gets a percentage for all their hard work, then, eBay listing fees, end of auction fees, eBay Store fees, Paypal fees, etc, all add up to about half the sale. Then I give 10% to charity.&#8221;

By her math, and the amount the charity received, the total amount of the sale could be roughly $399,500, making her final cut roughly $179,775, in comparison to the charity&#8217;s $19,975._

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/03/kim-kardashian-charity-tax-documents-kris-jenner-church/


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> I think Kris' assistants go through their old clothes and sell them. As for the yard sale, that was for the show.  The kids probably showed up on time, filmed an hour and left. They spend as much time on charity work as they did wring their novel.




Exactly. But it goes to show that the general public does actually believe these frauds. Kylie doing charity work is laughable to those of us who know better.


----------



## GaitreeS

Bentley1 said:


> Exactly. But it goes to show that the general public does actually believe these frauds. Kylie doing charity work is laughable to those of us who know better.


 
+1 for calling Kylie out. I recall when I saw her and Tyga at the thanksgiving event and the hospital I thought to myself, who are they trying to fool? It's just PR so they seem like good people. Who actually believed that?


----------



## Encore Hermes

As yes, brings back memories of  Kylie and her hair working. She's a giver!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

How much charity work do you do?[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Enough that I don't feel the need to brag about it. Anymore questions?


----------



## Eva1991

Encore Hermes said:


> As yes, brings back memories of  Kylie and her hair working. She's a giver!
> 
> sugarscape.cdnds.net/14/48/768x1152/nrm_1417085203-kylie-tyga-1.jpg



She looks so bored!


----------



## blackkitty4378

It is my personal belief that having children is a choice, not something that happens to you. But I'm not religious or anything like that. What he did to his older four is unacceptable to me&#8230; but I'm done debating it. As I've said, I'm happy for him, I'm glad his four older children had good mothers to pick up the slack, and that he seemingly has a good relationship with them now.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> It is my personal belief that having children is a choice, not something that happens to you. But I'm not religious or anything like that. What he did to his older four is unacceptable to me but I'm done debating it. As I've said, I'm happy for him, I'm glad his four older children had good mothers to pick up the slack, and that he seemingly has a good relationship with them now.



Well said.


----------



## Charles

Jayne1 said:


> I think Kris' assistants go through their old clothes and sell them. As for the yard sale, that was for the show.  The kids probably showed up on time, filmed an hour and left. They spend as much time on charity work as they did writing their novel.



I really don't care if they personally went through their clothes or not.  The point was that they are attempting to help people less fortunate.



Coach Lover Too said:


> Enough that I don't feel the need to brag about it. Anymore questions?



Hahaha!!  I love it...any other time you're more than willing to toss in your two sense....but now.  Yeah.  
BTW, it's not bragging when someone asks you about it.


----------



## ByeKitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> It is my personal belief that having children is a choice, not something that happens to you. But I'm not religious or anything like that. What he did to his older four is unacceptable to me but I'm done debating it. As I've said, I'm happy for him, I'm glad his four older children had good mothers to pick up the slack, and that he seemingly has a good relationship with them now.



Although in some instances it is not necessarily a choice. Think virgin Mary!!  No but seriously, in case of rape or forced marriage, getting pregnant may not be free choice. But obviously, this was not at all the case with Bruce.


----------



## DesigningStyle

FreeSpirit71 said:


> ...I sense PMK's hands (and Bruce's willingness to either take the bucks and/or do what she says) are all over this.
> 
> I guess we'll see...



I thought I read that Bruce ditched PMK as manager.  She is no longer involved.



blackkitty4378 said:


> It is my personal belief that having children is a choice, not something that happens to you. But I'm not religious or anything like that. What he did to his older four is unacceptable to me but I'm done debating it. As I've said, I'm happy for him, I'm glad his four older children had good mothers to pick up the slack, and that he seemingly has a good relationship with them now.



I agree.


----------



## Jayne1

Charles said:


> I really don't care if they personally went through their clothes or not.  *The point was that they are attempting to help people less fortunate.*


I don't think that is necessarily true.  Most of what they do is PR.  It has been posted that most of the money they raise does not go to charity.  A small fraction, yes, the rest? Into Kris' pockets we can only assume.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

DesigningStyle said:


> I thought I read that Bruce ditched PMK as manager.  She is no longer involved.



It's on E! She's tight with Seacrest. The kids are on the show. You can bet she has her fingerprints on it somewhere, credited or not.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Charles said:


> I really don't care if they personally went through their clothes or not.  The point was that they are attempting to help people less fortunate.
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha!!  I love it...any other time you're more than willing to toss in your two sense....but now.  Yeah.
> BTW, it's not bragging when someone asks you about it.



I think you mean cents, but I digress. 
By the way, my life isn't the one being showcased on television, but for whatever it's worth I've donated religiously to St. Jude's for the last 30+ years and that's just for starters. Now....I could show you the receipts, but then I wouldn't be any better than the Kardashians would I?

I'm sure Kylie needed a nap after putting a piece of asparagus on someone's plate. Bless her heart.

(*attempting* to help, *attempting* being the key word)


----------



## zippie

coach lover too said:


> i think you mean *cents*, but i digress.
> By the way, my life isn't the one being showcased on television, but for whatever it's worth i've donated religiously to st. Jude's for the last 30+ years and that's just for starters. Now....i could show you the receipts, but then i wouldn't be any better than the kardashians would i?
> 
> I'm sure kylie needed a nap after putting a piece of asparagus on someone's plate. Bless her heart.
> 
> (*attempting* to help, *attempting* being the key word)




 lmao


----------



## pukasonqo

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think you mean cents, but I digress.
> By the way, my life isn't the one being showcased on television, but for whatever it's worth I've donated religiously to St. Jude's for the last 30+ years and that's just for starters. Now....I could show you the receipts, but then I wouldn't be any better than the Kardashians would I?
> 
> I'm sure Kylie needed a nap after putting a piece of asparagus on someone's plate. Bless her heart.
> 
> (*attempting* to help, *attempting* being the key word)




just to add, wasn' t that kylie's photo op with the homeless when she turned up wearing about 30k of cartier's love bangles on her arms?
yup, i know, is a free country and she can wear what she wants but, if you are going to "help" at a shelter at least have some sensitivity and leave the showing off your $$$$ at the door 
and agree with the first part of coach lover's statement: my life is not being made into an object of public consumption (yes, i am that boring) using others (homeless, animals, religion) as props so why do i need to justify to strangers where my $$$$$goes and what i do in my spare time ( when not volunteering to save the world pukasonqo can be found in a dungeon, dressed in leather ready to whip some sense in a misbehaving slave)


----------



## guccimamma

its just no fun here anymore. 

now we have to show our charity receipts to prove we are better than these idiots?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm starting to think Charles might be Bruce.


----------



## Lounorada

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think you mean cents, but I digress.
> By the way, my life isn't the one being showcased on television, but for whatever it's worth I've donated religiously to St. Jude's for the last 30+ years and that's just for starters. Now....I could show you the receipts, but then I wouldn't be any better than the Kardashians would I?
> 
> *I'm sure Kylie needed a nap after putting a piece of asparagus on someone's plate. Bless her heart.*
> 
> (*attempting* to help, *attempting* being the key word)


 


I browse this thread because I'm nosey, but avoid commenting :ninja: 
The bolded/underlined made me chuckle though...


----------



## Charles

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think you mean cents, but I digress.



Nope...I typed what I meant.



Coach Lover Too said:


> By the way, my life isn't the one being showcased on television, but for whatever it's worth I've donated religiously to St. Jude's for the last 30+ years and that's just for starters. Now....I could show you the receipts, but then I wouldn't be any better than the Kardashians would I?



Again, I don't care if you're in the hospital signing to kids or working in a homeless shelter or having your assistant give your old clothes to charity or you give to St Jude's...you can show your receipts or take photo ops.  Someone is getting helped out, and that's a great thing.  I chose not to argue over the semantics of how certain people help other people or their motives.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Charles said:


> Nope...I typed what I meant.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I don't care if you're in the hospital signing to kids or working in a homeless shelter or having your assistant give your old clothes to charity or you give to St Jude's...you can show your receipts or take photo ops.  Someone is getting helped out, and that's a great thing.  I chose not to argue over the semantics of how certain people help other people or their motives.



Well you asked me what I had done, I was just giving you one example.
I guess if you want to believe everything the Kardashians put out there, then knock yourself out. I for one haven't seen one person come forward thanking them for their help. Nope, not a one. No *thanks for the house, thanks for putting my kid through college, thank you for buying granny a wheelchair.* Nada. Zilch.
They remind me of the type of people that put money in the collection plate at church, then when the cameras are gone, take the money back out.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think having sensitivity towards Bruce's journey and having necessary cynicism towards the Kardashian's and their "charitable" endeavours are two different things entirely.

These people have it practically in their DNA to look after themselves and _only_ themselves. They started a church as a way to evade tax. They sell their used clothes on eBay for $$.

Kylie's photo op at the soup kitchen etc was just that - a photo op and she came dressed for it - not dressed to really get in and help others.

I have an open mind with Bruce's journey - but this..the discussion on them helping others with charity..nope. I roll my eyes at them so hard on this issue, I may just fall off my chair.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I'm getting bored of this topic. No pap shots recently to stir up interest of the upcoming KUWTK Bruce special? PMK, where you at? :wondering


----------



## FreeSpirit71

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm getting bored of this topic. No pap shots recently to stir up interest of the upcoming KUWTK Bruce special? PMK, where you at? :wondering



LOL... No-one is forcing you to be in the thread, hon


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm getting bored of this topic. No pap shots recently to stir up interest of the upcoming KUWTK Bruce special? PMK, where you at? :wondering


He said the next time we see him, it will be as a female and he may just be waiting for his TV show to show us ?


----------



## blackkitty4378

I'm just bored of it and wondering where the new pap shots are to promote the special. Or something different.

Carry on as you wish. :salute:


----------



## Jayne1

Charles said:


> Again, I don't care if you're in the hospital signing to kids or working in a homeless shelter or having your assistant give your old clothes to charity or you give to St Jude's...you can show your receipts or take photo ops.*  Someone is getting helped out, and that's a great thing*.  I chose not to argue over the semantics of how certain people help other people or their motives.


Most goes to Kris' personal church/charity and we really don't know what she does with the church money.  They don't use it to build a proper church and no one attends, just the kids when they are filming.  That whole thing is just so odd.


----------



## caitlin1214

Coach Lover Too said:


> When you have children, your wants and needs no longer matter. The fact that he knew and has admitted to it leads me to believe that his own selfishness took precedence over his kids feelings.



Parents constantly forgetting their own needs and concentrating on those of their children's doesn't make them heroes, it makes them martyrs. 

Kids don't need martyrs. They need parents who are at their best possible selves.

They were people before their children were born and they'll be people once their children grow up. 

Obviously it can go too far in the other direction, where parents are completely neglecting their kids to focus on their own needs, and that's not good, either.


It seems to me that Bruce has been forgetting about what he wanted by hiding this. Now Kendall and Kylie are practically adults, he's ready to admit it. 

It's obviously a difficult thing to adjust to, (not only accepting his new gender, but essentially mourning his old one) but they'll get through it. 

While I don't like how publically all this is going on, I do like the fact that Bruce feels comfortable enough to talk about it and to take steps to live it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

caitlin1214 said:


> Parents constantly forgetting their own needs and concentrating on those of their children's doesn't make them heroes, it makes them martyrs.
> 
> Kids don't need martyrs. They need parents who are at their best possible selves.
> 
> They were people before their children were born and they'll be people once their children grow up.
> 
> Obviously it can go too far in the other direction, where parents are completely neglecting their kids to focus on their own needs, and that's not good, either.
> 
> 
> It seems to me that Bruce has been forgetting about what he wanted by hiding this. Now Kendall and Kylie are practically adults, he's ready to admit it.
> 
> It's obviously a difficult thing to adjust to, (not only accepting his new gender, but essentially mourning his old one) but they'll get through it.
> 
> While I don't like how publically all this is going on, I do like the fact that Bruce feels comfortable enough to talk about it and to take steps to live it.




Well then the Kardashian/Jenner kids lose all the way around because they have parents that are nothing but self absorbed.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I watched the Diane Sawyer interview again last night, and it seems as though Bruce can't even focus on the questions he was being asked. He seemed distracted to me. Watching him give his motivation speeches before and watching him now, it's as though he's developed a mental block. 
I hope he doesn't have any more plastic surgery on his face because his eyes are messed up big time, especially the one he could barely close. I was getting a mental block trying to watch him. lol


----------



## DesigningStyle

Charles said:


> Nope...I typed what I meant.



Than you meant to be rude and nasty.  I am not liking you lately Charles.  You are being ugly.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Jayne1 said:


> He said the next time we see him, it will be as a female and he may just be waiting for his TV show to show us ?



That's very interesting considering we know he must be leaving his house even if it is only to go to the grocery store.  Funny how the PMK's apps were always able to get lots of photos of him before!


----------



## Charles

DesigningStyle said:


> Than you meant to be rude and nasty.  I am not liking you lately Charles.  You are being ugly.



Ok??

I freely admit I get snarky when people don't show sympathy for racial/homosexual/gender issues.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Charles said:


> Ok??
> 
> I freely admit I get snarky when people don't show sympathy for racial/homosexual/gender issues.



I have complete empathy for people suffering from these very issues. It's people like Bruce Jenner that tries to play the public for fools that I have a problem with. 
If he were being true to himself, he wouldn't request to be referred to as he at this point. 
If you want to buy what he's selling, more power to you, just don't get p*ssed at those that don't. It's my opinion that he enjoys cross dressing and that's it. I guess pretending to be transgender rakes in more money than admitting to being a cross dresser.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

He had his Adam's Apple shaved. That's not pretending. He's taking female hormones. If he simply wanted to cross-dress, he'd do it.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Oy vey at "pretending to be transgender"


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I have complete empathy for people suffering from these very issues. It's people like Bruce Jenner that tries to play the public for fools that I have a problem with.
> If he were being true to himself, he wouldn't request to be referred to as he at this point.
> If you want to buy what he's selling, more power to you, just don't get p*ssed at those that don't. It's my opinion that he enjoys cross dressing and that's it. I guess pretending to be transgender rakes in more money than admitting to being a cross dresser.


Wow... how do you know he is "just pretending" to be transgender? Are you Bruce?

The fact that you seem so unwilling to accept that he may actually be transgender makes me really question your first sentence.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I don't know for a *fact*, however I stated it's my *opinion*.

I question his hesitation in waiting to reveal himself until there was a $5 million paycheck involved.
I question his reasoning behind wanting to continue to be referred to as he.
I question his decision not to go through with complete surgery.

I also question why some of you are so willing to take him at face value when it seems no one in that family is honest about anything.
I have NO problem admitting when I'm wrong, however, I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I don't know for a *fact*, however I stated it's my *opinion*.
> 
> I question his hesitation in waiting to reveal himself until there was a $5 million paycheck involved.
> I question his reasoning behind wanting to continue to be referred to as he.
> I question his decision not to go through with complete surgery.
> 
> I also question why some of you are so willing to take him at face value when it seems no one in that family is honest about anything.
> I have NO problem admitting when I'm wrong, however, I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.



Ok, I got a little confused here and tried to make sense of it all. I don't mean to get too philosophical here, just to avoid talking past each other and derailing the discussion here it goes. The thing is that opinions are _subjective_, when you say that Bruce "just enjoys cross dressing" and is "trying to play the public for fools", you present that as verifyable, factual information - which it isn't. You demonstrate skepticism, which is an _attitude_ rather than an opinion. You can't state your "opinion" on something that has been presented as a fact by refuting the entire set of evidence that can be used to verify that fact (of which, for me personally, there is enough).


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I apologize if there was any confusion. My comments are my opinion, and my opinion only. I wasn't aware that I needed to be specific when stating something.

When Chaz Bono came out with his journey, although I was completely surprised, I supported him 100%. He gave the public no reason to doubt him and I think he handled his transition with honesty and grace. Bruce on the other hand has done the complete opposite.  It's as though he's making a mockery of the situation. (<<<<MY OPINION)
As far as Bruce is concerned, I can be naive or I can be cynical and at this point I choose cynical.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I apologize if there was any confusion. My comments are my opinion, and my opinion only. I wasn't aware that I needed to be specific when stating something.
> 
> When Chaz Bono came out with his journey, although I was completely surprised, I supported him 100%. He gave the public no reason to doubt him and I think he handled his transition with honesty and grace. Bruce on the other hand has done the complete opposite.  It's as though he's making a mockery of the situation. (<<<<MY OPINION)
> As far as Bruce is concerned, I can be naive or I can be cynical and at this point I choose cynical.



Ok, one question because I'm curious: what would it take for you to be convinced he is in fact transgender, and not merely a cross dresser?


----------



## zippie

ByeKitty said:


> Ok, one question because I'm curious: what would it take for you to be convinced he is in fact transgender, and not merely a cross dresser?


 


What is the big deal?  She has her opinion and you have yours.  This is a gossip thread for crying out loud.  Funny how people jump all over someone who has a different opinion, mob mentality sometimes in these threads.


----------



## V0N1B2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I apologize if there was any confusion. My comments are my opinion, and my opinion only. I wasn't aware that I needed to be specific when stating something.


You wanna borrow my disclaimer, girlfriend? I can get my people to draw one up for you.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> Ok, one question because I'm curious: what would it take for you to be convinced he is in fact transgender, and not merely a cross dresser?



He would have had a lot more credibility if he had continued as a motivational speaker in colleges, support groups, transgender organizations, etc. and just donated his time helping others instead of *selling* out to a network called E Network, specifically known for entertainment. Money talks.

^^^^^^^My Opinion.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

V0N1B2 said:


> You wanna borrow my disclaimer, girlfriend? I can get my people to draw one up for you.



I know right? First questions about my own personal charity work/donations, now this. Thank god I put on my big girl panties.


----------



## ByeKitty

zippie said:


> What is the big deal?  She has her opinion and you have yours.  This is a gossip thread for crying out loud.  Funny how people jump all over someone who has a different opinion, mob mentality sometimes in these threads.


Seriously?! I was just asking a question, without any negative intentions.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I know right? First questions about my own personal charity work/donations, now this. Thank god I put on my big girl panties.



Oh this thread... I know I shouldn't have answered here. Apparently questions or conflicting opinions are met with cynical responses. I was just trying to be constructive here, and I was trying to understand your POV. No need to add a disclaimer to every post.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> He would have had a lot more credibility if he had continued as a motivational speaker in colleges, support groups, transgender organizations, etc. and just donated his time helping others instead of *selling* out to a network called E Network, specifically known for entertainment. Money talks.
> 
> ^^^^^^^My Opinion.


Ha - I said the exact same thing a while ago. I don't believe any man who is comfortable being male would pretend to be transgender for $ though.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> Ha - I said the exact same thing a while ago. I don't believe any man who is comfortable being male would pretend to be transgender for $ though.



I so agree with you, but we're not talking about the normal transgender person. This is the Kardashians/Jenners we're dealing with and we've all see what they've been capable of just to make some bucks.


----------



## labelwhore04

Coach Lover Too said:


> I so agree with you, but we're not talking about the normal transgender person. This is the Kardashians/Jenners we're dealing with and we've all see what they've been capable of just to make some bucks.



You really think Bruce got plastic surgery, shaved his adams apple, grew his hair and started taking female hormones just to make a few bucks? I mean seriously that's ridiculous. Plus his ex wives have already stated that this had been going on since the 80's. Were they lying? Like how much more proof do you need that this is real? Bruce may be a fameho like the rest of them and i think we all agree that he's going about this transition the wrong way, but it's pretty obvious that this is legit and that this is who he is.


----------



## DesigningStyle

ByeKitty said:


> Ok, one question because I'm curious: what would it take for you to be convinced he is in fact transgender, and not merely a cross dresser?



His man-part in a jar of formaldehyde?


----------



## DesigningStyle

People Magazine

BY TIM NUDD 

Bruce Jenner's gender transition has clearly been difficult for his wife of 24 years, Kris. But she speaks incredibly warmly of him  and he does the same of her  in a new promo for the upcoming E! special Keeping Up with the Kardashians: About Bruce. 

"You know, Kris is a really good woman, and I love her to death," says Bruce, 65. "And the love and acceptance I have gotten from Kris is absolutely overwhelming." 

In an earlier promo, Kris, 59, was seen struggling with the memories of their life together, saying it "sometimes feels like it didn't exist" now that Bruce is transitioning into a woman. But in the new clip, which shows lots of old home-movie footage, she fondly recalls their early years together. 

"We had so much in common that it was kind of a match made in heaven," Kris says. "We went to races. We played golf. We went snow skiing. I mean, there wasn't anything we didn't do, and we could not keep our hands off each other." 

E! says the clip proves the couple's relationship is "stronger than ever." And in a recent New York Times profile, Kris said she just wants the best for Bruce. 

"At the end of the day, I just want him to be happy," she said. "He's going to find his happiness, and he's going to have his journey."


----------



## DesigningStyle

Bruce looks much more than just 6 years older than Kris.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Four months ago he had quite the growing chest happening.  I don't remember seeing this photo before.


----------



## DesigningStyle

I guess we will see his expertise with makeup when he debuts as "she".  I bet they will capitalize on his offer to do Kim's makeup.  


People.com

Keeping Up with the Kardashians: About Bruce: Bruce Jenner Offers to Do Kim's Makeup 

BY AMANDA MICHELLE STEINER

Assigned male at birth, Bruce Jenner revealed in his 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer that he had intended to transition into a woman as early as the 1980s  so, it's no surprise that he's learned a few tricks of the womanly trade along the way. 

In a conversation with stepdaughter Kim Kardashian West in a sneak peek at E!'s upcoming special, Keeping Up with the Kardashians: About Bruce, the athlete says that he's "had secrets all my life," adding that "it's tough not to have secrets." 

At that, he pulls off a shoe to show off the bright pink nail polish he's been hiding, sharing that he paints them himself. 

In his interview with Sawyer, he said that he was looking forward to wearing nail polish for long enough that it could actually chip off, which spawned an online movement with the hashtag #PaintYourNailsForBruce. 

Jenner, 65, also reveals that he's "actually very good in the makeup department," insisting to Kardashian West that he could even do her makeup. This prompted a giggle from the reality star, who is likely doubting that any but the most experienced makeup artist could contour a Kardashian to their satisfaction. 

(After all, she did warn him not to steal her glam team!)


----------



## pukasonqo

DesigningStyle said:


> Bruce looks much more than just 6 years older than Kris.




that's what living with PMK does to you: sucks the life out of you
maybe bruce is her version of dorian gray's portrait?
like many have said: good luck to bruce i. this new stage, is difficult to come out to your family as gay, let alone trans
but i wish it was done more privately and to see him working with young people with gender issues, he has first experience on how difficult is to live your life hiding your true self because of society, family, etc pressures


----------



## Encore Hermes

*He&#8217;s no hero&#8221; says transgender former Navy SEAL of Bruce Jenner*

Norfolk, Va. &#8211; Former Virginia Beach Navy SEAL Kristin Beck is blasting Bruce Jenner for how the Olympian is revealing his transgender journey in multiple news segments.
&#8220;He&#8217;s no hero,&#8221; said Beck during an exclusive interview with NewsChannel 3.  &#8220;I`m seeing too much of that money grubbing reality show crap.&#8221;

Beck revealed her transgender journey during a 2013 interview with CNN&#8217;s Anderson Cooper, two years after the decorated veteran retired from the Navy.  During an interview with &#8220;The Insider&#8221; earlier this month, Beck drew comparison&#8217;s between her journey and Jenner&#8217;s after his interview with ABC News.

Now, Beck said she believes Jenner&#8217;s decision to space out certain pieces of information is not helpful to the LGBT community.

&#8220;He&#8217;s keeping everything secret and parsing out information to fish out another 17 million viewers to make another million bucks,&#8221; said Beck.  &#8220;It&#8217;s shameful and you&#8217;re not a hero if all you&#8217;re doing is trying to make money.  You can&#8217;t be an example if all you are is just that reality show machine.&#8220;

ABC news does not pay for interviews.  Jenner will reportedly reveal more about his journey in the &#8220;Keeping up with the Kardashians&#8221; reality show.

&#8220;There are kids, transgender, LGBT kids who are killing themselves every day because they have no hero to look up to,&#8221; said Beck.  &#8220;They see no future.  They feel isolated, and this could have been a really good example of what you can do and could have saved some lives.  But instead, you&#8217;re going to make a few bucks.  Disappointing.&#8221;

Beck has written and book and completed the documentary &#8220;Lady Valor.&#8221;  She is also running for Congress in Maryland.

&#8220;I took the road where I made a documentary, did everything real quick and just said hey, here it is, here&#8217;s the information if you want to know about it,&#8221; said Beck.  &#8220;And now I&#8217;m going to universities and speaking for free at colleges and universities all around the country.  I&#8217;m barely breaking even but I&#8217;m trying to show people who we are as normal folks, as something you can look and say okay I can understand it.&#8221;

NewsChannel 3 reached out to Bruce Jenner&#8217;s publicist for comment, but has not received a response.

http://wtkr.com/2015/05/13/hes-no-hero-says-transgender-former-navy-seal-of-bruce-jenner/


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DesigningStyle said:


> His man-part in a jar of formaldehyde?



Touche'.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> *Hes no hero says transgender former Navy SEAL of Bruce Jenner*
> 
> Norfolk, Va.  Former Virginia Beach Navy SEAL Kristin Beck is blasting Bruce Jenner for how the Olympian is revealing his transgender journey in multiple news segments.
> Hes no hero, said Beck during an exclusive interview with NewsChannel 3.  I`m seeing too much of that money grubbing reality show crap.
> 
> Beck revealed her transgender journey during a 2013 interview with CNNs Anderson Cooper, two years after the decorated veteran retired from the Navy.  During an interview with The Insider earlier this month, Beck drew comparisons between her journey and Jenners after his interview with ABC News.
> 
> Now, Beck said she believes Jenners decision to space out certain pieces of information is not helpful to the LGBT community.
> 
> Hes keeping everything secret and parsing out information to fish out another 17 million viewers to make another million bucks, said Beck.  Its shameful and youre not a hero if all youre doing is trying to make money.  You cant be an example if all you are is just that reality show machine.
> 
> ABC news does not pay for interviews.  Jenner will reportedly reveal more about his journey in the Keeping up with the Kardashians reality show.
> 
> There are kids, transgender, LGBT kids who are killing themselves every day because they have no hero to look up to, said Beck.  They see no future.  They feel isolated, and this could have been a really good example of what you can do and could have saved some lives.  But instead, youre going to make a few bucks.  Disappointing.
> 
> Beck has written and book and completed the documentary Lady Valor.  She is also running for Congress in Maryland.
> 
> I took the road where I made a documentary, did everything real quick and just said hey, here it is, heres the information if you want to know about it, said Beck.  And now Im going to universities and speaking for free at colleges and universities all around the country.  Im barely breaking even but Im trying to show people who we are as normal folks, as something you can look and say okay I can understand it.
> 
> NewsChannel 3 reached out to Bruce Jenners publicist for comment, but has not received a response.
> 
> http://wtkr.com/2015/05/13/hes-no-hero-says-transgender-former-navy-seal-of-bruce-jenner/



Interesting. Bruce should have taken notes.


----------



## Eva1991

labelwhore04 said:


> You really think Bruce got plastic surgery, shaved his adams apple, grew his hair and started taking female hormones just to make a few bucks? I mean seriously that's ridiculous. Plus his ex wives have already stated that this had been going on since the 80's. Were they lying? Like how much more proof do you need that this is real? Bruce may be a fameho like the rest of them and i think we all agree that he's going about this transition the wrong way, but it's pretty obvious that this is legit and that this is who he is.



+1 

There are other, easier ways to make money that don't involve painful surgeries and gender transition and this family isn't poor anyway. No one would subject themselves into this ordeal to become a bit richer.


----------



## pukasonqo

Eva1991 said:


> +1
> 
> There are other, easier ways to make money that don't involve painful surgeries and gender transition and this family isn't poor anyway. No one would subject themselves into this ordeal to become a bit richer.




i don't think it is his gender reassignation that most people are questioning but his motives in doing it publicly and for ka$h
actually, i know someone who is a female impersonator and had his adam's apple shaved, he identifies as "he" except when on stage


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think there's some issues with people trying to fit Bruce and his being transgender into a one size fits all category.

There's shades of grey in what he may or may not do.

Bruce himself was vague about how far it may go. 

Time will tell in that regard.


----------



## ByeKitty

DesigningStyle said:


> His man-part in a jar of formaldehyde?



Haha well, not all transgender men get rid of the peen... Also, I think in reassignment surgery, they use parts of that to create the female parts...


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> Haha well, not all transgender men get rid of the peen... Also, I think in reassignment surgery, they use parts of that to create the female parts...


Years ago, I read a study that said many transgender male to female were not content, once they got rid of it.  It's one of the most important decisions they have to make. It may not make them as happy as they think, and then it's too late. As you said, some keep it.

If Bruce really wants to take us on his "journey" I wonder if he will talk about that.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Jayne1 said:


> Years ago, I read a study that said many transgender male to female were not content, once they got rid of it.  It's one of the most important decisions they have to make. It may not make them as happy as they think, and then it's too late. As you said, some keep it.
> 
> If Bruce really wants to take us on his "journey" I wonder if he will talk about that.



Yep. They have to have some very thorough psych anslysis done as well.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I can understand why he might not want to go all the way with the gender reassignment. The thought of having reconstructive surgery on such a delicate area down there makes me squeamish-- although I'm sure it's what a lot of people want to feel complete with their transition. Hormone therapy seems like it's enough for some people, like Bruce, if that's the case with him. I'm sure the hormones alone can make you feel more of whatever gender you want to identify as.

Gender itself is such a gray area to me, especially when talking about gender roles. I believe that men and women, even cisgender, should feel comfortable doing stereotypical "women" or "men" things.

What is gender, when you think about it, anyway? It's certainly physical and anatomical, but it's also physiological, emotional, and spiritual.


----------



## Eva1991

blackkitty4378 said:


> I can understand why he might not want to go all the way with the gender reassignment. The thought of having reconstructive surgery on such a delicate area down there makes me squeamish-- although I'm sure it's what a lot of people want to feel complete with their transition. Hormone therapy seems like it's enough for some people, like Bruce, if that's the case with him. I'm sure the hormones alone can make you feel more of whatever gender you want to identify as.
> 
> Gender itself is such a gray area to me, especially when talking about gender roles. I believe that men and women, even cisgender, should feel comfortable doing stereotypical "women" or "men" things.
> 
> What is gender, when you think about it, anyway? It's certainly physical and anatomical, but it's also physiological, emotional, and spiritual.



Gender is more psychological than physiological. It has to do with how you _feel_ about the sex that was assigned to you upon birth and whether or not you embrace the male / female role given to you.


----------



## Charles

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think there's some issues with people trying to fit Bruce and his being transgender into a one size fits all category.
> 
> There's shades of grey in what he may or may not do.
> 
> Bruce himself was vague about how far it may go.
> 
> Time will tell in that regard.



Exactly.  It seems a few people expect Bruce to fit within their definition of transgender is.  It doesn't work like that.  I mean, the words "normal transgendered person" have actually been used.  Really? 
Everyone has their own specific definition of their own specific gender and it's not any of our places to judge them over it.
And that's my opinion...which means I can say it and not get opposing views.


----------



## ByeKitty

Charles said:


> Exactly.  It seems a few people expect Bruce to fit within their definition of transgender is.  It doesn't work like that.  I mean, the words "normal transgendered person" have actually been used.  Really?
> Everyone has their own specific definition of their own specific gender and it's not any of our places to judge them over it.
> And that's my opinion...which means I can say it and not get opposing views.



Bingo!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Charles said:


> Exactly.  It seems a few people expect Bruce to fit within their definition of transgender is.  It doesn't work like that.  I mean, the words "normal transgendered person" have actually been used.  Really?
> Everyone has their own specific definition of their own specific gender and it's not any of our places to judge them over it.
> And that's my opinion...which means I can say it and not get opposing views.



If he doesn't want people speculating or judging then he should have handled it differently instead of selling his soul to the highest bidder. Obviously he loves the attention just like the rest of his family.

And that's my opinion.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

He's also still refusing to be referred to as *she*. Wonder what that's about? I mean, if he's sincere in everything he's saying and doing, then why not?
And I'm serious in my question.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> He's also still refusing to be referred to as *she*. Wonder what that's about? I mean, if he's sincere in everything he's saying and doing, then why not?
> And I'm serious in my question.



So as I've understood, changing the pronoun is a rather drastic thing to do, and at what stage in the process people decide to do that is quite personal, some only decide to do that further in. Brucey is older and has lived as a "he" for over 60 years, so he may take longer than someone in their teens. Or maybe he will continue to live as something inbetween a man and a woman - which he is of course perfectly entitled to.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

http://www.eonline.com/news/656989/...s-to-life-as-a-woman-in-about-bruce-watch-now

I'm also honestly confused why he refers to himself in third person.
Wouldn't he know what he likes by now, after all these years?? Somebody try and help me understand.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oh I didn't see your post before I just posted ByeKitty.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

It's just these kinds of things that make me wonder if he's unsure.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> If he doesn't want people speculating or judging then he should have handled it differently instead of selling his soul to the highest bidder. Obviously he loves the attention just like the rest of his family.
> 
> And that's my opinion.



People were speculating and judging way before he ever said anything. They would of speculated and judged him even if he didn't "sell his soul". Either he can tell his story his way or the tabloids could do it in their typical insensitive and offensive fashion.


----------



## TrinketTattle

Charles said:


> Exactly.  It seems a few people expect Bruce to fit within their definition of transgender is.  It doesn't work like that.  I mean, the words "normal transgendered person" have actually been used.  Really?
> Everyone has their own specific definition of their own specific gender and it's not any of our places to judge them over it.
> And that's my opinion...which means I can say it and not get opposing views.


 
Thank you for this post. Completely agree with you!


----------



## bisbee

Charles said:


> Exactly.  It seems a few people expect Bruce to fit within their definition of transgender is.  It doesn't work like that.  I mean, the words "normal transgendered person" have actually been used.  Really?
> Everyone has their own specific definition of their own specific gender and it's not any of our places to judge them over it.
> And that's my opinion...which means I can say it and not get opposing views.


 
Excellent post.  I would imagine the "definition" differs for every transgendered person at every stage of their transition, so it would continue to evolve for each of them.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Eva1991 said:


> Gender is more psychological than physiological. It has to do with how you _feel_ about the sex that was assigned to you upon birth and whether or not you embrace the male / female role given to you.



Right-- if you read the rest of my post you would have seen that I said it's emotional and spiritual might as well throw psychological in there, too!

The topic was, I believe, Bruce not really being transgender because he doesn't want a sex change my point was that a lot of "feeling" like a gender is hormonal e.g., estrogen and testosterone. It's more than just having a penis or vagina.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Well if he's being honest about having feelings as a small child, then he's had all his life to think about it so why is he not able to commit to anything? That's why I can't help but think he's confused.
I've always thought that people going through the process were required to live their life in the open as the other sex for at least a year. Wouldn't they have started him doing that when he started the hormones/etc?
I'm as confused as Bruce.

I saw a post on Twitter where someone said he should change his name to Trans Jenner.
For whatever it's worth and those that think I'm against him as a human being, no, I didn't laugh. I was offended, but it still doesn't mean I believe everything he says. Honestly I'm not sure he believes it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DesigningStyle said:


> Four months ago he had quite the growing chest happening.  I don't remember seeing this photo before.



Since everyone, including me, makes fun of the rest of the family's lips, are we allowed to mention his?


----------



## bisousx

ForeverYoung87 said:


> People were speculating and judging way before he ever said anything. They would of speculated and judged him even if he didn't "sell his soul". Either he can tell his story his way or the tabloids could do it in their typical insensitive and offensive fashion.



This!!! X1000. Getting paid $5 mil to tell my story VS doing the exact same thing for free. Hmmm. I know what I would choose. Either way, Bruce would be getting judged and mocked left and right. Whether he chooses to donate his money to charity is his private business... I think he is doing the TG community a lot of good by helping to make the topic more mainstream.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Coach Lover Too said:


> Since everyone, including me, makes fun of the rest of the family's lips, are we allowed to mention his?



I don't see why not.


----------



## zippie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Since everyone, including me, makes fun of the rest of the family's lips, are we allowed to mention his?


 


I have a feeling he will be on an episode of Botched in the next few years.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Since everyone, including me, makes fun of the rest of the family's lips, are we allowed to mention his?



This sounds so cynical to me... The bad surgery has nothing to do with being transgender. Of course we can be critical of Bruce, actually we are, but it seems like you and some others filter out all the critical remarks about his parenting and famewhoring. Add his bad PS to all of this.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> This sounds so cynical to me... The bad surgery has nothing to do with being transgender. Of course we can be critical of Bruce, actually we are, but it seems like you and some others filter out all the critical remarks about his parenting and famewhoring. Add his bad PS to all of this.



Well then maybe we need two threads.
One for the Transgender Bruce and another one for Fame Ho Bruce.

I've noticed in the short time that I've been posting on this thread that some people are extremely sensitive about ANYTHING concerning Bruce. It's not only his transitioning, it's anything at all directed at him. It seems to be the rule *if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.* I just find the irony rich since everything and everyone on the celebrity threads is free for all but him. Go figure.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

^^So you just want a free for all where no-one objects if you're offensive? 

Again..HUGE generalisation about most posters here. Having a little grace about the possibilities of his transgender journey DOES NOT mean anyone thinks he's beyond criticism.

This has been gone over again and again, and you know the more it goes on it seems like you just want a free pass to go after his sexuality because you have a problem with it.


----------



## blackkitty4378

He and Kris definitely suffer from body dysmorphia IMO. I wonder how much of his PS has to do with being transgender (typically slimmer noses = more feminine) or just plain body dysmorphia.

He looked good during the interview. The hormones he's on must be good for his skin. It was glowing.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think the whole family have zero idea where to draw the line with plastic and cosmetic surgery.


----------



## pukasonqo

blackkitty4378 said:


> He and Kris definitely suffer from body dysmorphia IMO. I wonder how much of his PS has to do with being transgender (typically slimmer noses = more feminine) or just plain body dysmorphia.
> 
> He looked good during the interview. The hormones he's on must be good for his skin. It was glowing.




not an expert here but bruce was an athlete and that could explain (or not) his body image issues (if he has any); for many athletes and dancers their body is an instrument that needs to be fine tuned and correspond to and with the demands of their performance and that could mean, sometimes, having an extreme view on how their body must look to be able to be on top of their field


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> ^^So you just want a free for all where no-one objects if you're offensive?
> 
> Again..HUGE generalisation about most posters here. Having a little grace about the possibilities of his transgender journey DOES NOT mean anyone thinks he's beyond criticism.
> 
> This has been gone over again and again, and you know the more it goes on it seems like you just want a free pass to go after his sexuality because you have a problem with it.



You couldn't be more wrong, but whatever.


----------



## shiny_things

Honestly, this is not rocket science...

Making fun of Bruce = OK.
Making fun of Bruce because of his transgender-ism or using offensive transgender terminology = NOT OK.

OK = Bruce's PS looks really terrible.
Not Ok = Haha! Look at Bruce's breasts/he looks like a terrible transvestite etc etc.

If you cannot grasp that very basic difference, then maybe you need to educate yourself on transgender issues.


----------



## Yoshi1296

shiny_things said:


> Honestly, this is not rocket science...
> 
> Making fun of Bruce = OK.
> Making fun of Bruce because of his transgender-ism or using offensive transgender terminology = NOT OK.
> 
> OK = Bruce's PS looks really terrible.
> Not Ok = Haha! Look at Bruce's breasts/he looks like a terrible transvestite etc etc.
> 
> If you cannot grasp that very basic difference, then maybe you need to educate yourself on transgender issues.




100% agree with this.

Some of yall are rude.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I have to ask myself if some of the responses would be the same if it were Kris transitioning. My guess is not.


----------



## shiny_things

Coach Lover Too said:


> I have to ask myself if some of the responses would be the same if it were Kris transitioning. My guess is not.



In terms of the being offended by transphobic comments? Completely the same. Why wouldn't they be?


----------



## Yoshi1296

Coach Lover Too said:


> I have to ask myself if some of the responses would be the same if it were Kris transitioning. My guess is not.




It doesn't matter who is transitioning or not. Transphobic comments are NOT okay in any circumstances. It can be the worst, most irritating person in the world but saying homophobic, transphobic, racist, etc. comments are not only hurtful to that one 
person but to the group of people that identify with that race or sexuality.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Interpretation is left up to the reader. I've seen several people called out and I personally haven't read anything that I thought was offensive. Political correctness at it's best.
I'll give Bruce Jenner this much, he's got people talking whether it's fakery or not.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I have to ask myself if some of the responses would be the same if it were Kris transitioning. My guess is not.



The way you're calling out everyone and everything in this thread with the exact same arguments over and over again makes me wonder whether you're serious or trolling. I'm out of here.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bye Kitty. 
Sorry I couldn't resist.....and yes I'm serious.  My point being this whole time is if Bruce is.


----------



## Jayne1

Fascinating! I love what a good surgeon can do, they're like great sculptors. It's not about Bruce, per se, more about male to female face transitions.

I'm not bolding anything below - read the whole thing.



> *Bruce Jenner&#8217;s New Face*
> 
> Dr. Jeffrey H. Spiegel, one of the world&#8217;s leading practitioners of Facial Feminization Surgery, on the various procedures Bruce Jenner is going through in transitioning to a woman.
> 
> Back on Valentine&#8217;s Day, I wrote an article for The Daily Beast in which I provided a brief summary of facial feminization surgery. In short, Facial Feminization Surgery (or FFS) is a collection of surgical procedures that help change a masculine appearing face to a feminine face; the process that Bruce Jenner is currently going through. This is very helpful for transgender women who desire to be recognized as women in their day-to-day interactions with strangers and can provide a great degree of comfort and confidence to these individuals.
> 
> FFS is also a powerful way to make any woman&#8217;s face more attractive. Masculine features are seen as unattractive in a woman&#8217;s face, so knowing what to look for and how to change those masculine features, wherever they are in the face or neck, enables my patients to achieve extraordinary results and facial transformations. Some of my patients have chronicled their remarkable results with videos on YouTube&#8212;with one video in particular having been watched nearly three and a half million times as I write this. The point is that people are curious about these procedures.
> 
> However, how successful are they? In other words, can everyone look exactly the way they want after FFS?
> 
> The answer is that everyone will look more feminine, but not everyone can achieve a perfect result. The reason for this has to do with a number of things including the person&#8217;s expectations, what they look like when they come to me for the first time, and the position of some important organs that I can&#8217;t change.
> 
> Overall, though, these procedures are very effective. How do we know? And, how do we measure the effectiveness of an operation to make you look different? One way is to look at the quality of life of those individuals who have had the procedures compared with those who don&#8217;t and the general population.
> 
> We found that transgender women who had facial feminization surgery (FFS) had equal confidence in social situations as any other women, and much higher than transgender women who had not had surgery.
> 
> In 2010, I published a study in the journal Quality of Life Research. A research assistant and I looked at 247 transgender women to measure their quality of life. In studies like these, quality of life is measured using specially designed and tested surveys that have been shown to accurately detect quality of life from the standpoint of mental or physical health. We found that transgender women who never had surgery had a significantly lower mental health quality of life (in other words, they were more stressed, less confident, and less happy) than non-transgender women as a group. We also found that transgender women who have had facial feminization surgery have a quality of life that is statistically equal to all women (not just transgender women).
> 
> We found that transgender women who had facial feminization surgery (FFS) had equal confidence in social situations as any other women, and much higher than transgender women who had not had surgery.
> 
> A study like this provides strong evidence that the procedures we do as part of FFS have a significant impact and are objectively effective at achieving the ultimate goal of facial plastic surgery: helping a person to feel confident and pleased with their appearance.
> 
> What about complications of surgery? Every surgical procedure has some risks to it and some of the procedures involved in FFS are very complex.
> 
> Dr. Jeffrey H. Spiegel, one of the world&#8217;s leading practitioners of Facial Feminization Surgery, on the various procedures Bruce Jenner is going through in transitioning to a woman.
> 
> For example, one of the most important and powerful procedures I offer is changing the shape of the forehead. Attractive women have less of a forehead protuberance; that is, there is less bone projecting forward in the area of the eyebrows than in most men. This bony ridge and the position of the eyebrows convey a lot of information, including both gender and familiarity. By familiarity I mean that the eyebrows are an important way that we recognize our friends from strangers. It&#8217;s been shown that shaving off or masking the eyebrows greatly reduces our ability to identify familiar faces. However, increasing the arch of the eyebrow and sometimes making it higher feminizes this area, and thus improves a person&#8217;s appearance.
> 
> In an operation I developed to reshape the forehead and reposition the eyebrows, the bone of the skull around the eyes is actually removed, reshaped, and then replaced in a more attractive and feminine fashion. At the same time, I lift and arch the eyebrows, open the eye sockets to make the eyes look larger, and advance the hairline. When advancing the hairline I can move the hair forward sometimes up to two inches&#8212;which is very helpful to eliminate the look of a &#8220;high forehead&#8221; or masculine hairline.
> 
> 
> Clearly, it seems like a procedure this complex should have significant complications associated with it. However, it turns out that the complication rate for this operation is lower than that of tonsil removal.
> 
> Many people have an opinion on how successful Bruce Jenner's surgeries have been. Like you, I only know what I read in the magazines and online about what he may have had done (note: Bruce Jenner has requested to be addressed with male pronouns at the current time). However, there are clearly more things that could be done to achieve a feminine appearance for Bruce.
> 
> When I evaluate a person for femininity I look at the bone structure (e.g. the shape of the forehead, the size and width of the jaw, the shape of the cheeks), the eyebrow position, the hairline position and length of the forehead, the skin quality, the length of the lip (how long is the distance between the bottom of the nose and the red part of the upper lip), the fullness of the lips, and the size of the Adam&#8217;s apple. However, it&#8217;s also important to look young, so I determine if there is a role for a facelift, necklift, or eyelifts.
> 
> When I look at Bruce Jenner, I can see that some of these areas have been adjusted and some have not. Some of the areas where he likely had surgery could possibly be revised and improved. However, there are certain things that can limit how far we can go with surgery and I simply cannot state without an in-person evaluation whether or not there&#8217;s room for improvement. Oftentimes there is, but not always.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/16/bruce-jenner-s-new-face.html


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> Fascinating! I love what a good surgeon can do, they're like great sculptors. It's not about Bruce, per se, more about male to female face transitions.
> 
> I'm not bolding anything below - read the whole thing.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/16/bruce-jenner-s-new-face.html


 
Bruce should go to Korea if he gets more facial surgeries. They have every procedure under the sun, and over there it's common to get your jaw shaved, your cheeks slimmed, etc.


----------



## Jayne1

bisousx said:


> Bruce should go to Korea if he gets more facial surgeries. They have every procedure under the sun, and over there it's common to get your jaw shaved, your cheeks slimmed, etc.



Plus, according to the article I posted, the forehead is important, too.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Good article Jayne. Very interesting.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Not sure what bothers me more. 
The fact that Bruce continues to refer to himself in third person and hasn't figured out his personal taste after all this time, or the fact that a grown woman uses the word *pressies* when referring to gifts. What is she, four??
I'm starting to admire Rob more and more at this point.

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/khloe-kardashian-brings-bruce-jenner-170000889.html


----------



## Charles

Coach Lover Too said:


> Interpretation is left up to the reader. I've seen several people called out and I personally haven't read anything that I thought was offensive. Political correctness at it's best.
> I'll give Bruce Jenner this much, he's got people talking whether it's fakery or not.



Well of course not.  You're one of the people who's saying offensive things.  You gonna call yourself out? I doubt it.
This is what is boils down to, just so we're clear.  You keep saying you're fine with transgendered people.  That's incorrect.  You're fine with transgendered people as long as they transition and act the way you feel they're supposed to.  That's the issue, and if you can't see how that's ignorant and closed minded, and NOT being OK with transgendered people, then there's no use continuing to discuss this.  You keep conflating his sexuality with his parenting, his career, and even doubting that he's doing what he says he's doing.  Until you've lived his life, you have no right to make assumptuons dealing with how he lives it.  And that's the same for anyone, and especially minorities or people being oppressed.  It's like me coming to you and saying "Well, it's 2015...how can you say women aren't being treated as equals in our society.  You can vote.  You can work in the same places.  Men are the ones that pay most of women's bills anyway, so why do you want more money in the workplace?  Why are you whining so much?".  As a man, I have no idea what you've dealt with being a woman, so I have no right to expect you to act the same way I would act when you encounter oppression in your life.  I have no right to decide if you're acting like a "normal" woman or not.  I'm sure if I did, you'd tell me to eff right on off.  So perhaps apply that to this situation.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I'm just really confused as to why he stopped transitioning when he met Kris. 

If I know my narcissists/psychopaths, and I do, Kris is one. People with those personality disorders are extremely manipulative.

Do you think she took advantage of Bruce's vulnerability? She definitely knew he was transitioning. Do you think she was like "This is just a phase. You're not really a woman. You're Bruce Jenner." Or like "If you live as a woman, you can't continue to be Bruce Jenner, and make money as Bruce Jenner. Here, I'll show you. You can make workout videos, and do motivational speeches, but you have to continue to be the decathlon hero everyone knows and loves."


----------



## beekmanhill

Bruce explained the feminization surgery on KUWTK last night.   He described what he'd had.  Don't remember the details.  He also revealed that he will do the full transition "this spring."  I don't know when the show was filmed.  The accident happened somewhere along the line and maybe delayed things.


----------



## Sassys

blackkitty4378 said:


> *I'm just really confused as to why he stopped transitioning when he met Kris*.
> 
> If I know my narcissists/psychopaths, and I do, Kris is one. People with those personality disorders are extremely manipulative.
> 
> Do you think she took advantage of Bruce's vulnerability? She definitely knew he was transitioning. Do you think she was like "This is just a phase. You're not really a woman. You're Bruce Jenner." Or like "If you live as a woman, you can't continue to be Bruce Jenner, and make money as Bruce Jenner. Here, I'll show you. You can make workout videos, and do motivational speeches, but you have to continue to be the decathlon hero everyone knows and loves."


 
Excellent question! It was never said in the Diane Sawyer interview. I guess he was just trying to fight it. Also, his Dad was still alive at that time.


----------



## Sassys

beekmanhill said:


> Bruce explained the feminization surgery on KUWTK last night.   He described what he'd had.  Don't remember the details.  He also revealed that he will do the full transition "this spring."  I don't know when the show was filmed.  The accident happened somewhere along the line and maybe delayed things.


 
He had his nose done, chin done and I believe he said he is getting forehead done. When the show started it said January 2015.


----------



## Sassys

I was also confused about in tonight preview's Kris crying to Bruce about how they were suppose to grow old together as a couple. Uh, I don't watch the show, but didn't Bruce move out a long time ago and they filed for divorce awhile ago? So what crack is she smoking about growing old together.


----------



## shiny_things

To make Kris look kike a victim?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Charles said:


> Well of course not.  You're one of the people who's saying offensive things.  You gonna call yourself out? I doubt it.
> This is what is boils down to, just so we're clear.  You keep saying you're fine with transgendered people.  That's incorrect.  You're fine with transgendered people as long as they transition and act the way you feel they're supposed to.  That's the issue, and if you can't see how that's ignorant and closed minded, and NOT being OK with transgendered people, then there's no use continuing to discuss this.  You keep conflating his sexuality with his parenting, his career, and even doubting that he's doing what he says he's doing.  Until you've lived his life, you have no right to make assumptuons dealing with how he lives it.  And that's the same for anyone, and especially minorities or people being oppressed.  It's like me coming to you and saying "Well, it's 2015...how can you say women aren't being treated as equals in our society.  You can vote.  You can work in the same places.  Men are the ones that pay most of women's bills anyway, so why do you want more money in the workplace?  Why are you whining so much?".  As a man, I have no idea what you've dealt with being a woman, so I have no right to expect you to act the same way I would act when you encounter oppression in your life.  I have no right to decide if you're acting like a "normal" woman or not.  I'm sure if I did, you'd tell me to eff right on off.  So perhaps apply that to this situation.


|











Well there you are. I was wondering how long it was going to take you to show up and try to convince me to change my *opinion*.

The last time I checked this was a Celebrity News and Gossip thread. He's put his life in the public eye, which comes with public speculation and assumptions.
 If you want to believe he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart, go for it. Do I believe he's transgender? No. Do I believe he's having a mental breakdown? Yes. Do I care if you agree with me or not? Another no.
Have a great day.


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> He had his nose done, chin done and I believe he said he is getting forehead done. When the show started it said January 2015.


I posted an article about Facial Feminization Surgery a few days ago, post #291.

Forehead surgery was discussed in it. I think he already had the forehead surgery, it kinda looks like it to me. His weave may be throwing me off though.



> *For example, one of the most important and powerful procedures I offer is changing the shape of the forehead. Attractive women have less of a forehead protuberance; that is, there is less bone projecting forward in the area of the eyebrows than in most men. This bony ridge and the position of the eyebrows convey a lot of information, including both gender and familiarity.* By familiarity I mean that the eyebrows are an important way that we recognize our friends from strangers. Its been shown that shaving off or masking the eyebrows greatly reduces our ability to identify familiar faces. However, increasing the arch of the eyebrow and sometimes making it higher feminizes this area, and thus improves a persons appearance.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Coach Lover Too said:


> |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well there you are. I was wondering how long it was going to take you to show up and try to convince me to change my *opinion*.
> 
> The last time I checked this was a Celebrity News and Gossip thread. He's put his life in the public eye, which comes with public speculation and assumptions.
> If you want to believe he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart, go for it. *Do I believe he's transgender? No. Do I believe he's having a mental breakdown? Yes.* Do I care if you agree with me or not? Another no.
> Have a great day.



Just to clarify, do you believe that other people can legitimately be transgender, or do you believe that they are having a mental breakdown instead?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> Just to clarify, do you believe that other people can legitimately be transgender, or do you believe that they are having a mental breakdown instead?



I believe I've posted more than once and you may have missed it, but I have complete respect and admiration for Chaz Bono and the way he handled his journey. 
I was surprised but I never once thought he was doing it for any other reason than who he really is. He's a perfect example (to me) of what a role model should be to people dealing with the same issues.
In my opinion, you can't even compare the two, Bruce and Chaz.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Coach Lover Too said:


> I believe I've posted more than once and you may have missed it, but I have complete respect and admiration for Chaz Bono and the way he handled his journey.
> I was surprised but I never once thought he was doing it for any other reason than who he really is. He's a perfect example (to me) of what a role model should be to people dealing with the same issues.
> In my opinion, you can't even compare the two, Bruce and Chaz.



Yeah, I did forget about that. Sorry, there's just so many posters here.

That is your opinion about Bruce and this is a gossip thread.  It's not reserved to just positive or negative opinions. I think you're entitled to have your opinion about his transition, just as long as you're not invalidating transgender people in general, which is NOT what you're doing. Other people are entitled to argue back. Just as long as everyone keeps it civil, no personal attacks, it's fine in my eyes.

TBH, all we know about Bruce's transition is what his family tells us. I don't blame you for being cynical of Bruce, considering he comes from a family that lies and exploits everything.

I have my personal doubts sometimes, with the holes in his story. But as a whole, I do believe he's transgender. I would like to believe he wouldn't be going through all of this to make money, but at the same time, that could be a possibility.

I guess we'll never know. Only Bruce knows what's really going on inside his head.


----------



## Sassys

My friend told me, he also said he has gone out dressed like "her" several times. But when they asked him what is "her style, who would you compare her to out of all the girls" he said, he didn't know what "her style was". During the Swayer interview he said, he has been on hormones for almost 2yrs and he has been in therapy for almost 2yrs (mandatory before sex change), yet he doesn't know what her style is. So confusing. If you felt this way for years, how do you not know what "her style" is.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

^^ Maybe he's like rest of us who dress in various styles depending on what day it is and where our mood takes us.

I get what you're saying Sassy but it could just be as simple as that. He did mention "she" is more Jenner than Kardashian though I'm not sure what that means except: his clothes might actually fit him properly


----------



## blackkitty4378

Sassys said:


> My friend told me, he also said he has gone out dressed like "her" several times. But when they asked him what is "her style, who would you compare her to out of all the girls" he said, he didn't know what "her style was". During the Swayer interview he said, he has been on hormones for almost 2yrs and he has been in therapy for almost 2yrs (mandatory before sex change), yet he doesn't know what her style is. So confusing. If you felt this way for years, how do you not know what "her style" is.



Yeah I find that odd, too.

I watched the Bruce Special last night, and there's a scene where Khloe brings heels to give to Bruce. It just seems so awkward and unnatural. He put the heels on and just didn't seem comfortable. He probably just didn't like them, but still, it seemed so awkward. I'm not sure why they kept that scene there.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think, like the rest of the show..those scenes are scripted. Hence the awkwardness.


----------



## Sassys

I also found it weird he wanted Kim to be there for him at the Sawyer interview to represent the family.

Uh, Kim is the QUEEN of lies from day one, why IN THE HELL would he want her to represent. I could not stop laughing when my friend told me that.


----------



## labelwhore04

blackkitty4378 said:


> Yeah I find that odd, too.
> 
> I watched the Bruce Special last night, and there's a scene where Khloe brings heels to give to Bruce. It just seems so awkward and unnatural. He put the heels on and just didn't seem comfortable. He probably just didn't like them, but still, it seemed so awkward. I'm not sure why they kept that scene there.



Well of course it would feel a bit awkward dressing like a woman in front of people for the first time, especially his family.


----------



## blackkitty4378

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think, like the rest of the show..those scenes are scripted. Hence the awkwardness.



Yeah, very heavily scripted. They said it would be a lot of "raw" footage. Not sure why I believed them.


----------



## Sassys

FreeSpirit71 said:


> ^^ Maybe he's like rest of us who dress in various styles depending on what day it is and where our mood takes us.
> 
> I get what you're saying Sassy but it could just be as simple as that. *He did mention "she" is more Jenner than Kardashian though I'm not sure what that means except: his clothes might actually fit him properly*


----------



## littlerock

Sassys said:


> My friend told me, he also said he has gone out dressed like "her" several times. But when they asked him what is "her style, who would you compare her to out of all the girls" he said, he didn't know what "her style was". During the Swayer interview he said, he has been on hormones for almost 2yrs and he has been in therapy for almost 2yrs (mandatory before sex change), yet he doesn't know what her style is. So confusing. If you felt this way for years, how do you not know what "her style" is.



To be fair, if someone asked me what my style is, I'd say "I don't know." And I've been dressing myself for 3 decades.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> My friend told me, he also said he has gone out dressed like "her" several times. But when they asked him what is "her style, who would you compare her to out of all the girls" he said, he didn't know what "her style was". During the Swayer interview he said, he has been on hormones for almost 2yrs and he has been in therapy for almost 2yrs (mandatory before sex change), yet he doesn't know what her style is. So confusing. If you felt this way for years, how do you not know what "her style" is.



Agreed!


----------



## chowlover2

No, but you can ballpark style. Like Kim is always dressed to the nines to go to the post office. I think of Kourt as being very Boho, or earth mother. I imagine Bruce will be California casual. I don't see him wearing 6 in heels very day as it doesn't suit his lifestyle. JMO.


----------



## labelwhore04

I think his style will be sporty. He doesnt have to be super glam/girly girl.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> Yeah, I did forget about that. Sorry, there's just so many posters here.
> 
> That is your opinion about Bruce and this is a gossip thread.  It's not reserved to just positive or negative opinions. I think you're entitled to have your opinion about his transition, just as long as you're not invalidating transgender people in general, which is NOT what you're doing. Other people are entitled to argue back. Just as long as everyone keeps it civil, no personal attacks, it's fine in my eyes.
> 
> TBH, all we know about Bruce's transition is what his family tells us. I don't blame you for being cynical of Bruce, considering he comes from a family that lies and exploits everything.
> 
> I have my personal doubts sometimes, with the holes in his story. But as a whole, I do believe he's transgender. I would like to believe he wouldn't be going through all of this to make money, but at the same time, that could be a possibility.
> 
> I guess we'll never know. Only Bruce knows what's really going on inside his head.



Thank you for posting such a respectful response.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me but like you stated, it should be ok to agree to disagree and not be considered transphobic just because I question his genuineness. Honestly, body dysmorphic disorder describes what he could be  going through (to me.)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Kim is working herself right into the middle of it.....Big surprise.



May 18, 2015 09:36 AM EDT


  

 		   		                                                                   			   			 				   				 				   				In the most revealing interview she has ever done on camera,_ Access Hollywood&#8217;s_  Billy Bush sat down with Kim Kardashian ahead of the highly anticipated  two-part special &#8220;Keeping Up With the Kardashians: About Bruce&#8221; to talk  about how the family is handling Bruce's transition, her marriage to  Kanye, her understanding of social media and the nearly $100 million  dollar gaming empire she has helped build in one year.


 In Billy&#8217;s exclusive conversation with Kim -- *Part 1 airing on Access Monday, May 18th-- the video game mogul opened up and shared some major news about Bruce, admitting she has recently met &#8220;her.&#8221;*
*Kim beamed &#8220;it was amazing and she looked beautiful, really  beautiful,&#8221; she described to Billy. &#8220;She was dressed up, beautiful  make-up, beautiful hair, very, very beautiful and very comfortable.&#8221;  After discussing how this encounter felt, Kim tells Billy the story of  when she saw Bruce in women's clothing for the first time more than a  decade ago.*

PHOTOS: Kim Kardashian's 'Selfish' Book Signing


*When Billy asked if Kim knew &#8220;her&#8221; name, she replied, &#8220;I do. I can&#8217;t  tell you though,&#8221; but admitted she likes the name. Billy joked &#8220;Does it  start with a &#8216;K&#8217;?&#8221; Kim answers that.*

 Kim admits the big discussion in their family right now is when do  you change over from &#8220;he&#8221; to &#8220;she&#8221; as they want to make sure they are  &#8220;doing the right thing and honor the transgender community.&#8221;
 There&#8217;s more from Kim&#8217;s exclusive conversation with Billy Bush where  she reveals details about the success of her tech empire, opens up about  the moment she realized Kanye was the one, their first date in Paris,  the two pieces of invaluable guidance he has given her, his fiery and  passionate personality and she talks about how Kylie and Kendall are  navigating through a different kind of childhood than she had.
PHOTOS: Kim & Kanye - Since The Beginning
 It's the most revealing interview Kim has ever done.
 &#8220;Today Show&#8221; will air a sneak peek of _Access'_ exclusive conversation with Kim Kardashian on Monday, May 18th and the three-part interview will air on _Access_ on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. Check your local listings.
 -- _Access Hollywood Staff_


Read  more at  http://www.accesshollywood.com/kim-...turalrsquo_article_107682#lZAp3gmBq6oMhU5b.99


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think, like the rest of the show..those scenes are scripted. Hence the awkwardness.



One of the main reasons I question everything. Their whole lives have been scripted since day one.

I doubt very seriously if he weren't connected to the K family, in any way, shape or form that I would question what he says or what he does. I would have no reason to, but when they haven't been honest and upfront about anything, why would they start now.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> I also found it weird he wanted Kim to be there for him at the Sawyer interview to represent the family.
> 
> Uh, Kim is the QUEEN of lies from day one, why IN THE HELL would he want her to represent. I could not stop laughing when my friend told me that.



I just posted a link where she's doing an Access Hollywood interview. She has inserted herself right smack dab in the middle of it. Just as predicted. Anything to keep them in the spotlight.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> One of the main reasons I question everything. Their whole lives have been scripted since day one.
> 
> I doubt very seriously if he weren't connected to the K family, in any way, shape or form that I would question what he says or what he does. I would have no reason to, but when they haven't been honest and upfront about anything, why would they start now.



I think Bruce really is transgender. But I also believe everything floating around that, should be taken with a grain of salt. The K's have a "brand" to protect. And that brand is attention with a capital A.

Kris is already spinning this. I do get the feeling there's a tug of war of sorts between Kris and Bruce - the difference in their stories is already apparent.


----------



## Eva1991

shiny_things said:


> Honestly, this is not rocket science...
> 
> Making fun of Bruce = OK.
> Making fun of Bruce because of his transgender-ism or using offensive transgender terminology = NOT OK.
> 
> OK = Bruce's PS looks really terrible.
> Not Ok = Haha! Look at Bruce's breasts/he looks like a terrible transvestite etc etc.
> 
> If you cannot grasp that very basic difference, then maybe you need to educate yourself on transgender issues.





It's OK not to like Bruce as a person / parent / husband but to criticize his choices in his journey towards transition is not OK, IMO.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Eva1991 said:


> It's OK not to like Bruce as a person / parent / husband but to criticize his choices in his journey towards transition is not OK, IMO.



I agree, but I also agree that it's ok to question if his journey towards his alleged transition is legit. They're not the most trustworthy people on the planet.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I believe I've posted more than once and you may have missed it, but I have complete respect and admiration for Chaz Bono and the way he handled his journey.
> I was surprised but I never once thought he was doing it for any other reason than who he really is. He's a perfect example (to me) of what a role model should be to people dealing with the same issues.
> In my opinion, you can't even compare the two, Bruce and Chaz.


I know what you're saying. Even the Transgender Community is not thrilled with his being a role model.  Or so I've read.



FreeSpirit71 said:


> He did mention "she" is more Jenner than Kardashian though I'm not sure what that means except: his clothes might actually fit him properly


I thought he meant that he wouldn't be doing the overly sexed up thing, blow up sex doll, all T & A, fake behinds and overly exposed big boobs. He's more sporty and less cartoony.


----------



## Eva1991

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree, but I also agree that it's ok to question if his journey towards his alleged transition is legit. They're not the most trustworthy people on the planet.



Sure, you're entitled to your opinion as we all are.

Personally, I believe his story and don't believe he's doing it for the money because no one would subject themselves into all this if they weren't serious about it. And just like non transgender people, transgender ones are different from each other; there aren't any rules Bruce needs to abide by to complete his transition. It's a very personal journey.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Jayne1 said:


> I thought he meant that he wouldn't be doing the overly sexed up thing, blow up sex doll, all T & A, fake behinds and overly exposed big boobs. He's more sporty and less cartoony.



I know  I was kidding. I agree, I can see him having a sporty style, at least during the day.


----------



## Sassys

My friend just reminded me of something. Bruce said Khloe was/is having the hardest time with this and she is the closest one to him. Then please explain to me, when Khlow got married she was dead set against Bruce walking her down the isle and had to be talked into it.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> My friend just reminded me of something. Bruce said Khloe was/is having the hardest time with this and she is the closest one to him. Then please explain to me, when Khlow got married she was dead set against Bruce walking her down the isle and had to be talked into it.



Script, otherwise they had no drama!


----------



## Sassys

The fact that Kris Jenner keeps telling Bruce tell the truth makes me role my eyes so hard. She is the cult leader of lies in that family. I am so disgusted that I am watching this and that she is sitting thee yelling at him to tell the truth.

The man said he had size "B" cups when they met and she knew he was on hormones. WTF why would you think a man would take hormones for a day, a week or a month. She is so full of sh$t I can't take it.


----------



## Sassys

I don't like Kim dressing 'her" she is the last person to tell somone how to dress. She is married to a married closeted controlling man and does nothing without his say so. STFU.


----------



## Hermes4evah

Bruce's transition gives something for the K's to stay relevant for a while more.  I don't doubt his journey is genuine but all I saw was Kris and her three daughters turning it into something all about themselves. They all came across as their usual fake, scripted selves with the exception of Kendall.


----------



## Jayne1

Khloe got her re-writing history ways from her mom who re-writes history, in her favour, all the time.


----------



## chowlover2

I am think Khloe features prominently because she no longer has a storyline. I will actually DVR and watch to see the load of BS that PMK is pushing.


----------



## Sassys

Hermes4evah said:


> Bruce's transition gives something for the K's to stay relevant for a while more.  I don't doubt his journey is genuine but all I saw was Kris and her three daughters turning it into something all about themselves. They all came across as their usual fake, scripted selves with the exception of Kendall.



Agree!!


----------



## DC-Cutie

so pretty much the reason why Kris didn't comment when asked by ABC is because they had already taped the E! special.   All about the dollars


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Eva1991 said:


> Sure, you're entitled to your opinion as we all are.
> 
> Personally, I believe his story and don't believe he's doing it for the money because no one would subject themselves into all this if they weren't serious about it. And just like non transgender people, transgender ones are different from each other; there aren't any rules Bruce needs to abide by to complete his transition. It's a very personal journey.



I understand that.
 Chaz seems completely authentic to me. Bruce seems as though he's making a mockery of the whole thing. 
Just my $0.02


----------



## Coach Lover Too

My heart hurts for Kendall.


----------



## chowlover2

Chaz is definitely the gold standard for this this, and I don't think Cher had an easy time with it either. They just chose to deal with their emotions privately. So sad Bruce didn't take a page out of their book. Unless he donates the $$$ from the series to further LGBT issues...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

It's just killing me watching how nonchalant he seems in regards to the  girls feelings. I haven't seen him trying to console them or anything.  His attitude is like, *oh well.* He said, *do I live my life making  these wonderful people/family happy or do I make myself happy?* I would  not hesitate to put my happiness on hold to keep from hurting my kids  like he's hurting them. 
Obviously Kim is becoming his bestie. Big surprise there. Khloe's reacting like I think I probably would. It's a lot for them (daughters) to take in, in such a short time. I feel for them.


----------



## lizmil

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree, but I also agree that it's ok to question if his journey towards his alleged transition is legit. They're not the most trustworthy people on the planet.



Agreed.  It's also OK to question transgender in general. Not everyone HAS to accept it. People who preach tolerance should be tolerant of those who disagree with them.

Just to be clear, that's not my position, I'm not not accepting transgender (that's awkward.)  Let me say it the other way, I do accept it.  But I also recognize that some people don't and I don't think they need to be called names for it.

It's kind of like atheists and religious people, they ought to be able to coexist without tearing each other apart (tolerance).  Yeah, I know humanity is still working on that one too.

It just bugs me when people who preach tolerance are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them.  I never can quite wrap my head around that one.  It seems in that case one should educate, not be intolerant oneself.  Some of the most "tolerant" peole I know are the least "tolerant" of anyone who doesn't see things their way.  On any topic, not just those of this nature.

I may have stepped into it but  this seems a prime opportunity for civil discourse, so I thought I'd try.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Lol, Bruce is no martyr like he's making himself out to be. He's certainly been doing want he wants to do his whole life, except for transitioning.

If he was truly putting the transition on hold for his kids, why did he start back in the 80's? I think starting his transition now has way more to do with being divorced from Kris, and way less to do with his children.

But I think these lines from Bruce have more to do with a storyline than anything.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> It's just killing me watching how nonchalant he seems in regards to the  girls feelings. I haven't seen him trying to console them or anything.


I noticed that too. 

I can't get over how everyone knew and no one discussed it with anyone else in the family.  I guess they're used to keeping secrets, lots and lots of secrets.


----------



## arnott

Bruce might be doing Dancing with the Stars?

http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/05/18/bruce-jenner-dwts-partner-mark-ballas-derek-hough-transition/


----------



## lizmil

wow, another way to be in the limelight!


----------



## chowlover2

arnott said:


> Bruce might be doing Dancing with the Stars?
> 
> http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/05/18/bruce-jenner-dwts-partner-mark-ballas-derek-hough-transition/



I was just going to post that!


----------



## Jikena

Just watched the second part of the Bruce Special. I had a smile on my face the whole last part of the episode. Kim and Bruce were going through his closet to see if his female clothes were nice. You could see how happy he was to do this.


----------



## beekmanhill

Jayne1 said:


> I posted an article about Facial Feminization Surgery a few days ago, post #291.
> 
> Forehead surgery was discussed in it. I think he already had the forehead surgery, it kinda looks like it to me. His weave may be throwing me off though.



Yes, on the show he said he had it done.


----------



## Sassys

My thoughts on the special. Still can&#8217;t believe I actuallywatched **hangs head in shame**



Kris &#8211; Is mad this could ruin the brand. Bruce checked outmentally 5 years ago (around the time they really became famous). I am sure,she demanded he not mess things up for them at that time, which made him evenangrier and wanted away from her.



Kim &#8211; Is trying to come off all supported, because it makes her look good.



Kourtney &#8211; Seems to not really care. She just wants to make sure her kids are okay.



Kylie &#8211; Is pissed she will be a laughing stock, because her Dad Bruce Jenner wants to be a woman. She also seems pissed, like you are 65yrold, why do this.



Kendell &#8211; Seems scared for her Dad. She doesn&#8217;t want him to get hurt by the media and is scared he may be making a mistake



Khloe &#8211; Is no longer the &#8220;married one&#8221;, so she is nowconstantly feeling herself and is getting on the Kim wagon (constant selfies,constant playing dress up at home). She is concerned this will also mess up thebrand.

Scott - Is just happy to know, he is not the "black sheep" of the family


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> My thoughts on the special. Still cant believe I actuallywatched **hangs head in shame**
> 
> 
> 
> Kris  Is mad this could ruin the brand. Bruce checked outmentally 5 years ago (around the time they really became famous). I am sure,she demanded he not mess things up for them at that time, which made him evenangrier and wanted away from her.
> 
> 
> 
> Kim  Is trying to come off all supported, because it makes her look good.
> 
> 
> 
> Kourtney  Seems to not really care. She just wants to makesure her kids are okay.
> 
> 
> 
> Kylie  Is pissed she will be a laughing stock, because herDad Bruce Jenner wants to be a woman. She also seems pissed, like you are 65yrold, why do this.
> 
> 
> 
> Kendell  Seems scared for her Dad. She doesnt want him toget her by the media and is scared he may be making a mistake
> 
> 
> 
> Khloe  Is no longer the married one, so she is nowconstantly feeling herself and is getting on the Kim wagon (constant selfies,constant playing dress up at home). She is concerned this will also mess up thebrand.


I'd say that about sums it  up,  lol


----------



## Eva1991

Jayne1 said:


> I noticed that too.
> 
> I can't get over how everyone knew and no one discussed it with anyone else in the family.  I guess they're used to keeping secrets, lots and lots of secrets.



Maybe they did discuss it in private, who knows? They probably wanted Bruce to be the one telling the world he's transitioning (it's his story after all) so they won't appear like they're spreading rumors and stuff.


----------



## Sassys

Eva1991 said:


> Maybe they did discuss it in private, who knows? They probably wanted Bruce to be the one telling the world he's transitioning (it's his story after all) so they won't appear like they're spreading rumors and stuff.


 
Someone told. It was in the tabloids a few years ago (not the time it was found out in the 80's, but not told to the public by the media). They questioned Kris, and she said that was crazy and untrue.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I will always believe Kris knew.  Bruce said she knew then the other ex wives said they knew too.  She's just upset she's the one he was with when he went public.


Anybody heard from Lamar?  He and Bruce seemed to have a good relationship.


----------



## Eva1991

Sassys said:


> Someone told. It was in the tabloids a few years ago (not the time it was found out in the 80's, but not told to the public by the media). They questioned Kris, and she said that was crazy and untrue.



What was she supposed to say, really? If she did admit that the rumors were real, she'd be flamed by the media for dissing her ex husband. It's such a sensitive issue that even Kris (who's the master mind of managing) couldn't handle, probably. I'm sure that right now she worries about what consequences this will have for their shows and other business ventures. KUWTK was supposed to be fun, light entertainment and it's becoming too dramatic now.


----------



## Sassys

Eva1991 said:


> What was she supposed to say, really? If she did admit that the rumors were real, she'd be flamed by the media for dissing her ex husband. It's such a sensitive issue that even Kris (who's the master mind of managing) couldn't handle, probably. I'm sure that right now she worries about what consequences this will have for their shows and other business ventures. KUWTK was supposed to be fun, light entertainment and it's becoming too dramatic now.


 
What I am saying is, they claimed they never told one another (Kendell and Kyle said they never told and Kim claims she never told Kourt or Khloe for years), but one of them had to have either said something to someone in front of them that went to the press OR one of them planted it in the press.


----------



## Eva1991

Sassys said:


> What I am saying is, they claimed they never told one another (Kendell and Kyle said they never told and Kim claims she never told Kourt or Khloe for years), but one of them had to have either said something to someone in front of them that went to the press OR one of them planted it in the press.



I don't believe that they didn't discuss it, especially the Jenner girls who were still kids / teens at the time they saw him dressed as a woman. However we must keep in mind that they could have been in denial at first. Maybe they thought (the K girls) he was going through a phase or something. Despite how we like to make fun of the Kardashians it must not be easy to see your dad or step dad dressed as a woman and to listen to him admitting he wants to transition. Kendall and Kylie genuinely seem to be having a hard time.


----------



## Jayne1

Did I hear correctly?  Bruce has Rob Sr's old bed. I find it odd, it's a nice bed and all but Bruce is rich and can afford something else.


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> Did I hear correctly?  Bruce has Rob Sr's old bed. I find it odd, it's a nice bed and all but Bruce is rich and can afford something else.


 
YES! I found that to be odd.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

lizmil said:


> Agreed.  It's also OK to question transgender in general. Not everyone HAS to accept it. People who preach tolerance should be tolerant of those who disagree with them.
> 
> Just to be clear, that's not my position, I'm not not accepting transgender (that's awkward.)  Let me say it the other way, I do accept it.  But I also recognize that some people don't and I don't think they need to be called names for it.
> 
> It's kind of like atheists and religious people, they ought to be able to coexist without tearing each other apart (tolerance).  Yeah, I know humanity is still working on that one too.
> 
> *It just bugs me when people who preach tolerance are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them.*  I never can quite wrap my head around that one.  It seems in that case one should educate, not be intolerant oneself.  *Some of the most "tolerant" peole I know are the least "tolerant" of anyone who doesn't see things their way.  On any topic, not just those of this nature.*
> 
> I may have stepped into it but  this seems a prime opportunity for civil discourse, so I thought I'd try.




Perfectly stated.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> I noticed that too.
> 
> I can't get over how everyone knew and no one discussed it with anyone else in the family.  I guess they're used to keeping secrets, lots and lots of secrets.



I agree! If I'd seen my dad dressed as a female at 4:00 in the morning when I was going to get a drink of water, I have NO doubt the first words out of my mouth would have been *what the h*ll are you doing?!?* Course I'm open like that and I realize that not everyone is. I think that's why I felt empathy for Khloe when I was watching the first episode and she was bombarding Bruce with questions. I could relate to that if it'd been me.

Also, didn't Kim say there was a reporter years ago that caught Bruce? I'm not sure if I heard her right or not, but a reporter keeping that secret all these years?? Really?? Was he paid off because we all know they live for breaking stories!


----------



## Charles

lizmil said:


> It just bugs me when people who preach tolerance are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them.  I never can quite wrap my head around that one.  It seems in that case one should educate, not be intolerant oneself.  Some of the most "tolerant" peole I know are the least "tolerant" of anyone who doesn't see things their way.  On any topic, not just those of this nature.



I think you're getting terms a bit mixed up here, and I assume you're referring to me when you mention people preaching tolerance should be tolerant.  In fact, I don't think anyone in this thread is being intolerant, per se.  I think people are making judgements when it's not really their place.  I've never once said that people can't have their opinions, but when those opinions are formed on, what I feel to be, a lack of knowledge or experience or exposure, I'm going to share my opinion of their opinion.  This is how people learn and grow...or not.  Disagreeing with someone isn't the same as intolerance.  
Bottom line, you can disagree with me all you want, and I'll support the fact that you're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean I don't get to present an alternate view and that alternate view doesn't mean I'm being intolerant simply cause you might not agree with it.
You have the freedom to say whatever you want (well, almost whatever), and with that freedom comes reactions and repercussions.  I don't eat at Chick Fil A.  Is that me being intolerant, or simply exercising my right to free speech by choosing not to support a place that dislikes gay people?  I think it's the latter. You may disagree. 
And with that.  I promise not keep harping on this topic.  I think we've gotten of our chests what we need to.  There are always private messages for continued discussion.


----------



## lizmil

Charles said:


> I think you're getting terms a bit mixed up here, and I assume you're referring to me when you mention people preaching tolerance should be tolerant.  In fact, I don't think anyone in this thread is being intolerant, per se.  I think people are making judgements when it's not really their place.  I've never once said that people can't have their opinions, but when those opinions are formed on, what I feel to be, a lack of knowledge or experience or exposure, I'm going to share my opinion of their opinion.  This is how people learn and grow...or not.  Disagreeing with someone isn't the same as intolerance.
> Bottom line, you can disagree with me all you want, and I'll support the fact that you're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean I don't get to present an alternate view and that alternate view doesn't mean I'm being intolerant simply cause you might not agree with it.
> You have the freedom to say whatever you want (well, almost whatever), and with that freedom comes reactions and repercussions.  I don't eat at Chick Fil A.  Is that me being intolerant, or simply exercising my right to free speech by choosing not to support a place that dislikes gay people?  I think it's the latter. You may disagree.
> And with that.  I promise not keep harping on this topic.  I think we've gotten of our chests what we need to.  There are always private messages for continued discussion.




I think we are saying the same exact thing.  I wasn't pointing my message at you.  As I said, people I know who claim to be tolerant are not tolerant (I don't know you) and the opportunity for education is the answer, not further intolerance. Sounds exactly like what you said.

Further, to use you Chick fil A example I support your decision to not eat there because you don't like their stance.  But I also support someone else's decision to eat there  because they agree with it.  Me, I will eat at Wendy's.  I like my fast food non-political.  (humor attempt there).


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think MOST of the discussions have been expected, given the heated topic - even views I don't agree with.

As I said earlier..the convo's here have been mild compared to some truly awful stuff I've seen on other sites.


----------



## Birdonce

Tolerance of intolerance doesn't make sense. It's okay to say you don't understand it, that you feel uncomfortabke with it, but saying I disagree with who you are and how you are living your life is a fault.

A PP asked some questions - I'm not hugely versed in the transgender community but have had a transgendered patient and a mother of a transgendered son as a patient. They live lives under enormous stress: the dual identies, the secrets, the risks of violence and social ostracism if they are found out. They may have moments where their courage or their desperation may begin to overcome their knowledge of how horrible things can get, and in those circumstances they may make attempts at transitioning. If they have pushback, or fear, they may not make it initially. They may try to prove the masculinity/femininity.!l they may try to live their lives as they think they should be led, and then fail or crumble under the stresses they have on top of other stresses. They may, when they finally come out, have a period of euphoria and selfishness to make up for the years of self denial.

Personally, I think Bruce was not the best father or husband. He is not handling his transition perfectly - he is (willfully or ignorantly) ignoring some of the effects his transition is having in his family. But a lot of that is not unexpected. I don't give him a free pass but I understand how and why he might have ****ed up on this really difficult journey. I know I screwed some stuff up ending a bad marriage that wasn't nearly as complicated as what he is dealing with.

Also , for someone who mentioned this, gender identity and sexual orientation Are separate issues. I don't bekieve Bruce is transitioning because he wants to be with men - he desires women and he is a woman. 

OT, anyone with any curiousitt about this should watch Transparent. The whole show is kooky but even just to watch Jeffery Tambor's scenes is so enlightening


----------



## bisousx

Birdonce said:


> Tolerance of intolerance doesn't make sense. It's okay to say you don't understand it, that you feel uncomfortabke with it, but saying I disagree with who you are and how you are living your life is a fault.
> 
> A PP asked some questions - I'm not hugely versed in the transgender community but have had a transgendered patient and a mother of a transgendered son as a patient. They live lives under enormous stress: the dual identies, the secrets, the risks of violence and social ostracism if they are found out. They may have moments where their courage or their desperation may begin to overcome their knowledge of how horrible things can get, and in those circumstances they may make attempts at transitioning. If they have pushback, or fear, they may not make it initially. They may try to prove the masculinity/femininity.!l they may try to live their lives as they think they should be led, and then fail or crumble under the stresses they have on top of other stresses. They may, when they finally come out, have a period of euphoria and selfishness to make up for the years of self denial.
> 
> Personally, I think Bruce was not the best father or husband. He is not handling his transition perfectly - he is (willfully or ignorantly) ignoring some of the effects his transition is having in his family. But a lot of that is not unexpected. I don't give him a free pass but I understand how and why he might have ****ed up on this really difficult journey. I know I screwed some stuff up ending a bad marriage that wasn't nearly as complicated as what he is dealing with.
> 
> Also , for someone who mentioned this, gender identity and sexual orientation Are separate issues. I don't bekieve Bruce is transitioning because he wants to be with men - he desires women and he is a woman.
> 
> OT, anyone with any curiousitt about this should watch Transparent. The whole show is kooky but even just to watch Jeffery Tambor's scenes is so enlightening



Thank you for this. I enjoyed reading this post, and it's a lovely reminder that no one is perfect.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

bisousx said:


> Thank you for this. I enjoyed reading this post, and it's a lovely reminder that no one is perfect.



+ 1 Very well put, measured and patient.


----------



## Cinamonn_girl

I saw the first part of About Bruce special and it felt so staged that I don't even know what to think about it. 

Watching the interview he did with Diane Sawyer right now and I like that so much better. Perhaps because it doesn't have Kardashian written all over it? I don't know - it seems much more genuine and it doesn't portray Bruce as a bad guy. It's actually about Bruce and not about Khloe or the rest of them. 

Also, I like Bruce's kids from his first two marriages so much more - and Casey, omg, she's absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I think Bruce is the one that saw dollar signs when he first met Kris. He was the one struggling financially and stayed with Kris long enough to benefit and become independent. Once the big bucks started rolling in, then he decides to come clean.
Not only is he selfish, in my opinion, he's also narcissistic. How dare him devastate those closest to him and then be so glib with his *I still love ya baby* comment like that's supposed to make it all ok. He even said to Kris that she wasn't very nice to him the last five years or so. So....if she'd been nicer he would have kept pretending? That says a lot about his character, or lack of. Always someone else's fault.


----------



## Jayne1

Cinamonn_girl said:


> I saw the first part of About Bruce special and it felt so staged that I don't even know what to think about it.
> 
> Watching the interview he did with Diane Sawyer right now and I like that so much better. Perhaps because it doesn't have Kardashian written all over it? I don't know - it seems much more genuine and it doesn't portray Bruce as a bad guy. It's actually about Bruce and not about Khloe or the rest of them.


There they were, in full makeup, false eye lashes and all, trying to keep their makeup from smearing, when they cried. Except for Kendel, who doesn't need the stuff, the rest of them looked more concerned for their faces.


----------



## Eva1991

Cinamonn_girl said:


> I saw the first part of About Bruce special and it felt so staged that I don't even know what to think about it.
> 
> Watching the interview he did with Diane Sawyer right now and I like that so much better. Perhaps because it doesn't have Kardashian written all over it? I don't know - it seems much more genuine and it doesn't portray Bruce as a bad guy.* It's actually about Bruce and not about Khloe or the rest of them. *
> 
> Also, I like Bruce's kids from his first two marriages so much more - and Casey, omg, she's absolutely gorgeous.



The title of the KUWTK special was so off. That special had very little to do with Bruce and more to do with the K clan and how they are dealing with his transition. The interview he did with Sawyer was much better and had actually had to do with him and his journey.


----------



## Eva1991

Jayne1 said:


> There they were, in full makeup, false eye lashes and all, trying to keep their makeup from smearing, when they cried. Except for Kendel, who doesn't need the stuff, the rest of them looked more concerned for their faces.



Kendall seemed the only one of them who was truly upset and sad. I'm sure the all the girls feel sad deep inside because, after all, they grew up with him and he was part of their family for more than 20 years, but I didn't like how they appeared on the special, like they were reading a script.

Also, what happened to Rob? Did he appear at all?

(NB: I didn't watch the special in full, only a few clips here and there.)


----------



## DC-Cutie

Eva1991 said:


> Kendall seemed the only one of them who was truly upset and sad. I'm sure the all the girls feel sad deep inside because, after all, they grew up with him and he was part of their family for more than 20 years, but I didn't like how they appeared on the special, like they were reading a script.
> 
> Also, what happened to Rob? Did he appear at all?
> 
> (NB: I didn't watch the special in full, only a few clips here and there.)


 
No Rob.  Not even a mention of him.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think Bruce is the one that saw dollar signs when he first met Kris. He was the one struggling financially and stayed with Kris long enough to benefit and become independent. Once the big bucks started rolling in, then he decides to come clean.


 
saw dollar signs from Kris?  How so, she wasn't working and if she was getting support from Robert, that must have stopped when they got married


----------



## labelwhore04

I think Rob has completely cut himself off from
everyone in the family. Im curious to know how hes dealing with all this. What im most curious about though is how they are gonna explain it to Mason.


----------



## Eva1991

DC-Cutie said:


> No Rob.  Not even a mention of him.



How sad. Bruce's been a father figure for him and he must be struggling with the fact that his step dad is transitioning. It's like the Ks pretend Rob doesn't exist for some reason! Why is that?


----------



## DC-Cutie

Eva1991 said:


> How sad. Bruce's been a father figure for him and he must be struggling with the fact that his step dad is transitioning. It's like the Ks pretend Rob doesn't exist for some reason! Why is that?


 
He no longer fits the 'look' and going through his own demons.  I feel sad for Rob.  He lost his father at a very young age, then comes Bruce, now it probably feels like he's loosing him too.


Having Kris as a mother can't help matters


----------



## DC-Cutie

It's very telling of how divided this family is, even though Kris tries to portray a pic of solidarity and family togetherness.

 His children all participated in the Diane Sawyer interview, meanwhile all the Kardashians (minus Rob) did their special on E!   It's all so calculating and business like (since I'm sure all types of contracts, deals and negotiations took place).

 Now I really see why Brody has a disdain for all things Kardashian


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> It's very telling of how divided this family is, even though Kris tries to portray a pic of solidarity and family togetherness.
> 
> His children all participated in the Diane Sawyer interview, meanwhile all the Kardashians (minus Rob) did their special on E!   It's all so calculating and business like (since I'm sure all types of contracts, deals and negotiations took place).
> 
> Now I really see why Brody has a disdain for all things Kardashian


 
I'm glad none of them were on the sawyer interview. It made it more real to me. The E! version seemed so fake


----------



## Eva1991

DC-Cutie said:


> He no longer fits the 'look' and going through his own demons.  I feel sad for Rob.  He lost his father at a very young age, then comes Bruce, now it probably feels like he's loosing him too.
> 
> 
> Having Kris as a mother can't help matters



Agree. Very sad. Kris certainly doesn't help. All she cares about is how to keep her daughters relevant.



DC-Cutie said:


> It's very telling of how divided this family is, even though Kris tries to portray a pic of solidarity and family togetherness.
> 
> His children all participated in the Diane Sawyer interview, meanwhile all the Kardashians (minus Rob) did their special on E!   It's all so calculating and business like (since I'm sure all types of contracts, deals and negotiations took place).
> 
> Now I really see why Brody has a disdain for all things Kardashian



Noticed that too. I'm assuming his kids don't have a great relationship with their step siblings. Don't know how their relationship with Kendal and Kylie is though.


----------



## guccimamma

labelwhore04 said:


> I think Rob has completely cut himself off from
> everyone in the family. Im curious to know how hes dealing with all this. What im most curious about though is how they are gonna explain it to Mason.



your grandmother is a whore, your grandfather is a woman, our family fame is based upon a tape of your aunt being urinated on.


----------



## TNgypsy

lizmil said:


> Agreed.  It's also OK to question transgender in general. Not everyone HAS to accept it. People who preach tolerance should be tolerant of those who disagree with them.
> 
> Just to be clear, that's not my position, I'm not not accepting transgender (that's awkward.)  Let me say it the other way, I do accept it.  But I also recognize that some people don't and I don't think they need to be called names for it.
> 
> It's kind of like atheists and religious people, they ought to be able to coexist without tearing each other apart (tolerance).  Yeah, I know humanity is still working on that one too.
> 
> It just bugs me when people who preach tolerance are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them.  I never can quite wrap my head around that one.  It seems in that case one should educate, not be intolerant oneself.  Some of the most "tolerant" peole I know are the least "tolerant" of anyone who doesn't see things their way.  On any topic, not just those of this nature.
> 
> I may have stepped into it but  this seems a prime opportunity for civil discourse, so I thought I'd try.




This^^^^


----------



## pursegrl12

guccimamma said:


> your grandmother is a whore, your grandfather is a woman, our family fame is based upon a tape of your aunt being urinated on.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## ByeKitty

DC-Cutie said:


> No Rob.  Not even a mention of him.



The LesserDashian


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> your grandmother is a whore, your grandfather is a woman, our family fame is based upon a tape of your aunt being urinated on.



Guess that'll work.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Off topic, sorta, but did you know that Bruce had a younger brother die in a tragic car accident when Bruce was 20? I'd never heard that before.


----------



## CoachGirl12

Jayne1 said:


> Did I hear correctly?  Bruce has Rob Sr's old bed. I find it odd, it's a nice bed and all but Bruce is rich and can afford something else.


I found it odd too and creepy for some reason... :wondering


----------



## blackkitty4378

I found that so strange, too. By "bed" do they mean mattress? headboard? what?

Surely not the same mattress. That would be so old.


----------



## September24

guccimamma said:


> your grandmother is a whore, your grandfather is a woman, our family fame is based upon a tape of your aunt being urinated on.


 
 OMG...LMAO


----------



## kirsten

blackkitty4378 said:


> I found that so strange, too. By "bed" do they mean mattress? headboard? what?
> 
> Surely not the same mattress. That would be so old.




Kim looked like she was looking at the headboard when she mentioned it. I doubt it's the mattress.


----------



## ChanelMommy

guccimamma said:


> your grandmother is a whore, your grandfather is a woman, our family fame is based upon a tape of your aunt being urinated on.



LMAO


----------



## NYC Chicky

I thought there was an article someone posted about it being all scripted the conversation / orchestrated with the cameras. I really doubt that was his first time discussing it with the kardashians /Kyle Kendall


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I read today,(can't remember where) that his episodes were filmed in January.


----------



## Encore Hermes

The scenes were filmed in January via gawker 

Interesting site featured on gawker about the dates they film each episode 

*Keeping up with the kontinuity errors *

Examples

After looking at Kim cry, Kendall and Kylie all agree that in the future this will be a great thing for Bruce. Kendall is already in awe of his future motivational speeches. This was a busy day for Kim - this was filmed on January 15, 2015, the same day she talked to Kylie about her lips in Episode 9, Scene 16 while wearing a jacket.

http://defamer.gawker.com/did-e-re-shoot-scenes-for-its-bruce-jenner-specials-a-1705568959

Lip Service
Episode 9

On Sunday night&#8217;s episode, the A-plot was Kylie&#8217;s lips; the B-plot was Scott and Kourtney&#8217;s joint house flipping venture; the C-plot was Kim&#8217;s secret photo shoot; and the D-plot was Kris Jenner&#8217;s new job as Carmen Sandiego, because she was no where to be found in this episode

http://kuwtke.tumblr.com


----------



## DC-Cutie

can someone help me understand this:
Bruce said she's hetero
she will undergo gender reassignment
Will that then make her a lesbian or after her change will she date men?


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> can someone help me understand this:
> Bruce said she's hetero
> she will undergo gender reassignment
> Will that then make her a lesbian or after her change will she date men?



Transgender people don't know until after the hormone injections are complete. (Wait, are they ever complete or is it on-going ? )

Anyway, the hormones could change what appeals to him, but since he has always adored women, he thinks it might not change, but it could.


----------



## Eva1991

Bruce is over 60 and though I'm not saying that people his age can't have an active sex life, the interest isn't as high as it's in your 20s or 30s for example. From his interviews, I got the impression that he wants to focus on himself and not on finding a partner.


----------



## shiny_things

DC-Cutie said:


> can someone help me understand this:
> Bruce said she's hetero
> she will undergo gender reassignment
> Will that then make her a lesbian or after her change will she date men?



Many transgender people refer to their sexuality as 'pansexual with preference' simply because they often find that the typical sexuality labels don't quite fit them.


----------



## knics33

DC-Cutie said:


> It's very telling of how divided this family is, even though Kris tries to portray a pic of solidarity and family togetherness.
> 
> His children all participated in the Diane Sawyer interview, meanwhile all the Kardashians (minus Rob) did their special on E!   It's all so calculating and business like (since I'm sure all types of contracts, deals and negotiations took place).
> 
> Now I really see why Brody has a disdain for all things Kardashian



I thought about this as well... there is a clear divide from the Jenner children before Kris came along. I get the vibe they can't *STAND *anything Kardashian.




shiny_things said:


> Many transgender people refer to their sexuality as 'pansexual with preference' simply because they often find that the typical sexuality labels don't quite fit them.


 
I never knew this... thanks for posting! Transexuality is definitely starting to come to the forefront as a societal issue and no doubt there will be a great deal of confusion before acceptance, but I think discussing and educating will certainly lead to acceptance and in turn respect and tolerance.


----------



## ByeKitty

Eva1991 said:


> Bruce is over 60 and though I'm not saying that people his age can't have an active sex life, the interest isn't as high as it's in your 20s or 30s for example. From his interviews, I got the impression that he wants to focus on himself and not on finding a partner.



I once read somewhere that women "peak" around 40... Looking forward to that! I do feel like my "drive" is gradually rising but I lack confidence still.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> I read today,(can't remember where) that his episodes were filmed in January.


 
It/they said it was filmed in January on the show.


----------



## chowlover2

ByeKitty said:


> I once read somewhere that women "peak" around 40... Looking forward to that! I do feel like my "drive" is gradually rising but I lack confidence still.



Between 30-40 are your best years physically. It's not really til 50 things slow down. I found once I hit 40 my confidence was much improved. It's very freeing, and it gets better with each year thereafter. Honestly, i'd much rather be 50 than in my 20's again.


----------



## lovemysavior

ByeKitty said:


> The LesserDashian



And to know that he is going to be the only "Kardashian" that was supposed to carry the last name to his children being the only male Robert had.  Oh how his family has blemished the name for the future Kardashians


----------



## Jayne1

shiny_things said:


> Many transgender people refer to their sexuality as 'pansexual with preference' simply because they often find that the typical sexuality labels don't quite fit them.


What does that mean?


----------



## glamourous1098

Jayne1 said:


> What does that mean?



The way I've had it explained to me, (and someone, please correct me if I'm wrong!) is that pansexual is sexual attraction to people of all genders (as in, all places on the gender spectrum) as opposed to bisexuality, which recognizes a more binary gender view (male and female).  Hope this helps!


----------



## chowlover2

glamourous1098 said:


> The way I've had it explained to me, (and someone, please correct me if I'm wrong!) is that pansexual is sexual attraction to people of all genders (as in, all places on the gender spectrum) as opposed to bisexuality, which recognizes a more binary gender view (male and female).  Hope this helps!



Thanks Doll!


----------



## Jayne1

glamourous1098 said:


> The way I've had it explained to me, (and someone, please correct me if I'm wrong!) is that pansexual is sexual attraction to people of all genders (as in, all places on the gender spectrum) as opposed to bisexuality, which recognizes a more binary gender view (male and female).  Hope this helps!


What do you mean all genders?  Aren't there only two? So they are open to being with a male and/or a female. What else is there? (Sorry if this is a dumb question.)


----------



## blackkitty4378

Jayne1 said:


> What do you mean all genders?  Aren't there only two? So they are open to being with a male and/or a female. What else is there? (Sorry if this is a dumb question.)



Not a dumb question at all!  I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) it means you can be attracted to someone who's transgender, pangender (someone who identifies as both genders), or more that I'm forgetting. Just basically, there's no limits to whom you love, whereas saying you're heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual is very specific.


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> What do you mean all genders?  Aren't there only two? So they are open to being with a male and/or a female. What else is there? (Sorry if this is a dumb question.)



Well gender is a gradual scale actually... One can be completely stereotypically "male" or "female" and anything inbetween. I'm a female and I'm fine with that, and although I do enjoy doing some stereotypically "girly" things, I'm generally less comfortable in the company of a group of girls than I am in a group of men. I would say I'm rather androgynous, and I know I'm not the only one.


----------



## chowlover2

ByeKitty said:


> Well gender is a gradual scale actually... One can be completely stereotypically "male" or "female" and anything inbetween. I'm a female and I'm fine with that, and although I do enjoy doing some stereotypically "girly" things, I'm generally less comfortable in the company of a group of girls than I am in a group of men. I would say I'm rather androgynous, and I know I'm not the only one.



I tend to agree with you. I found dealing with men is much less drama than a group of women. Have worked in both female and male groups at the same company. I'd rather work with the boys. JMHO.

I doubt if Bruce even knows how things will play out at this point. I hope he finds peace. We all just have to wait and see.


----------



## shiny_things

ByeKitty said:


> Well gender is a gradual scale actually... One can be completely stereotypically "male" or "female" and anything inbetween. I'm a female and I'm fine with that, and although I do enjoy doing some stereotypically "girly" things, I'm generally less comfortable in the company of a group of girls than I am in a group of men. I would say I'm rather androgynous, and I know I'm not the only one.



This is me really. I'm a woman and I like being 'girly', but I'm not a pink and princesses sort of girly. I enjoy pampering and stuff just as much as I enjoy playing sport (if were using stereotypical activities). I love dressing up in beautiful dresses and lovely hair and make up, but I also love just hanging in sweats and no make-up and I am not dressing up just to go food shopping! I enjoy the company of women, but I feel more comfortable in the company of men, it seems more relaxed and less threatening somehow. I identify strongly as a woman and love being one.

I hate women (and men) who make you feel like you are somehow less of a woman for not fitting the stereotype 100%.


----------



## ByeKitty

shiny_things said:


> This is me really. I'm a woman and I like being 'girly', but I'm not a pink and princesses sort of girly. I enjoy pampering and stuff just as much as I enjoy playing sport (if were using stereotypical activities). I love dressing up in beautiful dresses and lovely hair and make up, but I also love just hanging in sweats and no make-up and I am not dressing up just to go food shopping! I enjoy the company of women, but I feel more comfortable in the company of men, it seems more relaxed and less threatening somehow. I identify strongly as a woman and love being one.
> 
> I hate women (and men) who make you feel like you are somehow less of a woman for not fitting the stereotype 100%.



Ugh I can't stand when that happens! The "gradual scale" also exists on a physiological level. In extreme cases we might call them hermaphrodites, but remember that story last year about the female runner who was banned because she naturally had abnormally high levels of testosterone for a woman?


----------



## dangerouscurves

ByeKitty said:


> Ugh I can't stand when that happens! The "gradual scale" also exists on a physiological level. In extreme cases we might call them hermaphrodites, but remember that story last year about the female runner who was banned because she naturally had abnormally high levels of testosterone for a woman?




I can see this gradual scale in me when it comes to my sexual orientation. I prefer to have a bf and I love men's hard bodies but I've also made out with girls conciously.


----------



## Charles

Jayne1 said:


> What does that mean?



As it's been mentioned, gender isn't male or female only.  Even someone's sex isn't only male or female.  The majority of people are either XX or XY, but some people only have one sex chromosome, some have XXY, XYY, XXX, and various other combinations.  Which is why people are trying to get away from the gender and sex labels of straight, gay, lesbian, male, female, etc, cause not everyone identifies with/fits into those labels.


----------



## labelwhore04

Is it bad that i watched the Bruce special and actually felt bad for Kris? Maybe i've had too much wine.


----------



## redney

labelwhore04 said:


> Is it bad that i watched the Bruce special and actually felt bad for Kris? Maybe i've had too much wine.



Yes, you've had too much wine!


----------



## Jayne1

labelwhore04 said:


> Is it bad that i watched the Bruce special and actually felt bad for Kris? Maybe i've had too much wine.



You must always remember, how easy it is for Kris to cry.  Some people can cry very easily and do it all the time. Kris is one of them.


----------



## Docjeun

redney said:


> Yes, you've had too much wine!


Yes, you have


----------



## Docjeun

labelwhore04 said:


> Is it bad that i watched the Bruce special and actually felt bad for Kris? Maybe i've had too much wine.


Yes, way too much!&#55357;&#56860;


----------



## Sassys

labelwhore04 said:


> Is it bad that i watched the Bruce special and actually felt bad for Kris? Maybe i've had too much wine.



You were clearly wasted if you felt sorry for her.

How can you feel sorry for someone who knew for years. She knew he took hormone shots when they met. He said she was mean to him the last 5 years, which tells me he couldn't take it anymore and wanted the truth out and she said hello no, you are not messing up everything we have. Just think, 5yrs ago is when they really started to rule the world and the money was really poouring in.


----------



## Encore Hermes

I don't feel sorry for her and his bracelets look tight

Did we miss this? Dinner out with Korey, Kyle and Faye oh my.............Thursday night


----------



## Coach Lover Too

labelwhore04 said:


> Is it bad that i watched the Bruce special and actually felt bad for Kris? Maybe i've had too much wine.



That happened to me and I had no wine.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> I don't feel sorry for her and his bracelets look tight
> 
> Did we miss this? Dinner out with Korey, Kyle and Faye oh my.............Thursday night



He looks like he's helping Granny cross the street.


----------



## blackkitty4378

These people are master manipulators and spin doctors. It wouldn't surprise me if you did feel bad for her watching that.

Do I feel bad for Kris? Kind of. How does one become Pimp Mama Kris? What happens to someone to become a psychopath and have no care other than money? I'm really interested in her real story, not the fabricated one she wrote in her book.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> You must always remember, how easy it is for Kris to cry.  Some people can cry very easily and do it all the time. Kris is one of them.




It was all for show. She sat there crying without wiping her nose or the nasty mascara stains on her cheeks throughout the whole scene, like "oh, look at me I'm really crying and I'm too upset to wipe my face."
Who sits there and cries for 10-15 mins without wiping their runny nose and tears. #fake


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> It was all for show. She sat there crying without wiping her nose or the nasty mascara stains on her cheeks throughout the whole scene, like "oh, look at me I'm really crying and I'm too upset to wipe my face."
> Who sits there and cries for 10-15 mins without wiping their runny nose and tears. #fake


Just as bad -- the kids (expect Kendal) listening to Bruce while wearing full makeup and heavy eye makeup. A few tears and they are dapping their lashes with tissue, because heaven forbid, their eyeliner smudges.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> Just as bad -- the kids (expect Kendal) listening to Bruce while wearing full makeup and heavy eye makeup. A few tears and they are dapping their lashes with tissue, because heaven forbid, their eyeliner smudges.




Both extremes are annoying. Kris annoyed me more bc it was so fake that she wasn't bothering to wipe the snot and black tears in the attempt to appear distraught. She's just a better actress than her kids.


----------



## Docjeun

Bentley1 said:


> It was all for show. She sat there crying without wiping her nose or the nasty mascara stains on her cheeks throughout the whole scene, like "oh, look at me I'm really crying and I'm too upset to wipe my face."
> Who sits there and cries for 10-15 mins without wiping their runny nose and tears. #fake


Actors!


----------



## Docjeun

This show is disgusting and IMO an insult to people that are actually going thru this transformation.  Showing how professional you are at doing your pedicure, come on!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

^You don't think he's actually going through transgender change?


----------



## Coach Lover Too




----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> You were clearly wasted if you felt sorry for her.
> 
> How can you feel sorry for someone who knew for years. She knew he took hormone shots when they met. He said she was mean to him the last 5 years, which tells me he couldn't take it anymore and wanted the truth out and she said hello no, you are not messing up everything we have. Just think, 5yrs ago is when they really started to rule the world and the money was really poouring in.



Agreed! Only thing PMK is sad about is Bruce getting the $$$ for the show, and her not getting 10%.


----------



## White Orchid

Bentley1 said:


> It was all for show. She sat there crying without wiping her nose or the nasty mascara stains on her cheeks throughout the whole scene, like "oh, look at me I'm really crying and I'm too upset to wipe my face."
> Who sits there and cries for 10-15 mins without wiping their runny nose and tears. #fake


All of this!!!

But one thing.  You omitted the coloured contacts.  I mean if you're going to feign sadness, it might as well be with a lighter coloured iris.  SMH.


----------



## Jayne1

White Orchid said:


> All of this!!!
> 
> But one thing.  You omitted the coloured contacts.  I mean if you're going to feign sadness, it might as well be with a lighter coloured iris.  SMH.


She wanted all the attention on her eyes, since she knew she can cry at the drop of a hat, so she used lighter contacts.


----------



## Sassys

So the Diane Swayer inteview is playing on E!, so E!/Kris must have gotten some money from ABC.


----------



## zippie

I read that Bruce is now a woman and has a VaJay, he had surgery 3 weeks ago.  I wonder if it's true??


----------



## Sassys

zippie said:


> I read that Bruce is now a woman and has a VaJay, he had surgery 3 weeks ago.  I wonder if it's true??


 
Well, he did say in the spring.


----------



## chowlover2

I wonder when he will debut his new self?


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> I wonder when he will debut his new self?


 

There are pics online that they say is him in the car with blonde hair; but the pics are not that clear, so I didn't post.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> There are pics online that they say is him in the car with blonde hair; but the pics are not that clear, so I didn't post.



It's kind of funny we nicknamed him Brucetina many years ago, and he later transitions. Who knew?


----------



## shiny_things

I've just got round to seeing the Bruce episode of KUWTK. I can kind of get why Khloe is pissed if the show is true, if he keeps lying about it, dodging questions she asks and telling her something different to what he does. She was right, he's been planning this for a long time so you'd think he'd be sure about what he was planning to do procedurely and be able to articulate that to his kids.


----------



## tweegy

shiny_things said:


> I've just got round to seeing the Bruce episode of KUWTK. I can kind of get why Khloe is pissed if the show is true, if he keeps lying about it, dodging questions she asks and telling her something different to what he does. She was right, he's been planning this for a long time so you'd think he'd be sure about what he was planning to do procedurely and be able to articulate that to his kids.




I just caught it last week... I'm not saying he's not really trans... But things just don't add up Imo. I just think that for someone so sure about what he is doing he seemed unsure and unclear when asked a lot of questions. Even things like talking about 'her', it seemed even he didn't really know how 'she' was. Just that he wore a wig a dress and nail polish .. 

And everyone said they knew but then at the same time it's a shock to them? Maybe I'm not quite understanding but the show didn't seem to explain a lot. 

I will admit I don't know a lot about the subject of trans but I do know people know this from very very young.. And they seem more assertive than Bruce did in the shows about what he is doing.

Anyone else got that also?


----------



## uhpharm01

Sassys said:


> Well, he did say in the spring.



Haha!!&#128514; I'm sorry.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

@Tweegy..I think for Bruce...in those times when he was growing up there was just no or little acceptance of transgender issues.

Add into the mix his "Golden Boy" status as an athlete in the US. 

I think all of that would weigh in on top of the normal anxiety and stresses that comes with that realisation about yourself as transgender.

BUT..I side eye the show. Its scripted and I think some of them pull it off better than others. I'm not buying a lot of what was shown. The only one who seemed genuine was Kendall.

I would like to have been a fly on the wall when those conversations really went down.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Haven't read anything about the car accident/death after the initial report that he is being sued by the family.


----------



## bag-mania

Encore Hermes said:


> Haven't read anything about the car accident/death after the initial report that he is being sued by the family.



There hasn't been anything for a few weeks. She didn't have any living relatives. The "family" in question are her two adult stepchildren, who, according to Kim Howe's friends, had virtually no relationship with her. They did not inherit anything from her. So it sounds like an attempt at a money grab by filing the lawsuit.


----------



## tweegy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> @Tweegy..I think for Bruce...in those times when he was growing up there was just no or little acceptance of transgender issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Add into the mix his "Golden Boy" status as an athlete in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> I think all of that would weigh in on top of the normal anxiety and stresses that comes with that realisation about yourself as transgender.
> 
> 
> 
> BUT..I side eye the show. Its scripted and I think some of them pull it off better than others. I'm not buying a lot of what was shown. The only one who seemed genuine was Kendall.
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to have been a fly on the wall when those conversations really went down.




Yeh, I get that. I guess as others said- it's the kardashians so people tend to be skeptical. But I do think he didn't come off as assertive as someone dealing with this for so long. Time will tell I suppose.


----------



## Encore Hermes

bag-mania said:


> There hasn't been anything for a few weeks. She didn't have any living relatives. The "family" in question are her two adult stepchildren, *who, according to Kim Howe's friends, had virtually no relationship with her. *They did not inherit anything from her. So it sounds like an attempt at a money grab by filing the lawsuit.



Interesting! Do you remember the article for kim's friends statements, or link?  Thx 

 the only report I read was from tmz and I don't consider that gossip site real credible  especially considering  k& j family info


----------



## bag-mania

Encore Hermes said:


> Interesting! Do you remember the article for kim's friends statements, or link?  Thx
> 
> the only report I read was from tmz and I don't consider that gossip site real credible  especially considering  k& j family info



I just did a search to try to find other sources and they all quoted TMZ!  

The non-celebrity sites apparently don't consider the case to be newsworthy enough to cover anymore.

Howe's  husband died back in 2003. Since the stepkids are suing Bruce for "loss of  affection" I would think they need to prove they made some  effort to keep in touch with Howe over the years. They lived out of state. 

Howe  had a trust and left all of her assets to charity and the stepchildren were not included at all.


----------



## chowlover2

tweegy said:


> Yeh, I get that. I guess as others said- it's the kardashians so people tend to be skeptical. But I do think he didn't come off as assertive as someone dealing with this for so long. Time will tell I suppose.


My main question is for PMK. When she met him, he had been taking hormones for 5 years, had breasts and electrolysis to remove his beard. That's really committed if you ask me. Why the change of heart after all that? And why would you marry a man like that?


----------



## tweegy

chowlover2 said:


> My main question is for PMK. When she met him, he had been taking hormones for 5 years, had breasts and electrolysis to remove his beard. That's really committed if you ask me. Why the change of heart after all that? And why would you marry a man like that?




I think it was Bruce who said that she probably didn't think it was as drastic as him wanting to switch. She probably thought he just liked wearing the wig and dress. But me too, if I'm seeing a guy and even if he likes wearing a dress I would raise an eyebrow. So I can't also how it's a complete shock to her if she knew from the get go..


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> My main question is for PMK. When she met him, he had been taking hormones for 5 years, had breasts and electrolysis to remove his beard. That's really committed if you ask me. Why the change of heart after all that? And why would you marry a man like that?


 
She thought Bruce had more money then he actually did. He was not as rich as people thought he was. Both stated they had no money when they first got married. Now, they were not broke, but they were not living the life she had in her first marriage. What rich man was going to take a woman with 4 kids. She knew this and jumped on what came to her. 

Didn't Khloe say, Bruce has been in her life since she was 4? And, didn't she also say, her mother use to take her to the man she was having an affair with when she was 5/6. So that means Kris was cheating on Bruce, because she knew the truth all along.


----------



## Sassys

tweegy said:


> I think it was Bruce who said that she probably didn't think it was as drastic as him wanting to switch. She probably thought he just liked wearing the wig and dress. But me too, if I'm seeing a guy and even if he likes wearing a dress I would raise an eyebrow. So I can't also how it's a complete shock to her if she knew from the get go..


 
Then she is a lying moron. What sane woman stays with a man that tells you he was on hormones? If a man tells me he was on hormones, it means he wants to be a woman. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Kris stayed, because she was not going to get a rich man to take care of her and all her kids. Bruce probably knew she was cheating and let it go, because he felt guilty.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

They need to rename themselves *The KlusterF**ks*


----------



## guccimamma

Sassys said:


> Then she is a lying moron. What sane woman stays with a man that tells you he was on hormones? If a man tells me he was on hormones, it means he wants to be a woman. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Kris stayed, because she was not going to get a rich man to take care of her and all her kids. Bruce probably knew she was cheating and let it go, because he felt guilty.



the whole situation is unfathomable at so many levels. 

if he had breasts when she met him...she turned a blind eye for money. simple as that. maybe they had no $$$, but she recognized earning potential in his name..and ran with it.


----------



## Sassys

guccimamma said:


> the whole situation is unfathomable at so many levels.
> 
> *if he had breasts when she met him...she turned a blind eye for money. simple as that. maybe they had no $$$, but she recognized earning potential in his name..and ran with it*.


 
Thank you!!! Now I can understand a man letting himself go and having breast (doesn't mean they are on hormones). The man straight told her he was on Hormones. She is crying about, I didn't know if it was one day, one week, one month, etc. Bish please, He told you he was taking them, AND you know he crossed dressed. She is lying Point.Blank.Period


----------



## ByeKitty

Sassys said:


> She thought Bruce had more money then he actually did. He was not as rich as people thought he was. Both stated they had no money when they first got married. Now, they were not broke, but *they were not living the life she had in her first marriage*. What rich man was going to take a woman with 4 kids. She knew this and jumped on what came to her.
> 
> Didn't Khloe say, Bruce has been in her life since she was 4? And, didn't she also say, her mother use to take her to the man she was having an affair with when she was 5/6. So that means Kris was cheating on Bruce, because she knew the truth all along.



Didn't Kris blow through all of Robert Sr's money trying to keep up with her richer Beverly Hills friends? I thought I read somewhere that they were actually in debt when Kris met Bruce.


----------



## tweegy

Sassys said:


> Then she is a lying moron. What sane woman stays with a man that tells you he was on hormones? If a man tells me he was on hormones, it means he wants to be a woman. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Kris stayed, because she was not going to get a rich man to take care of her and all her kids. Bruce probably knew she was cheating and let it go, because he felt guilty.




I remember him saying she knew... Apparently all his ex wives knew at some point. So I don't understand how she's shocked.. I'm thinking she probably really didn't think Bruce wanted to be a woman.



Coach Lover Too said:


> They need to rename themselves *The KlusterF**ks*



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



guccimamma said:


> the whole situation is unfathomable at so many levels.
> 
> 
> 
> if he had breasts when she met him...she turned a blind eye for money. simple as that. maybe they had no $$$, but she recognized earning potential in his name..and ran with it.




[emoji52]Bruce had breasts before?!


----------



## Sassys

ByeKitty said:


> Didn't Kris blow through all of Robert Sr's money trying to keep up with her richer Beverly Hills friends? I thought I read somewhere that they were actually in debt when Kris met Bruce.


 
I don't recall that. I do remember Bruce telling Rob Sr. He didn't have to give her alimony, he would take care of her.

Rob Sr. left the kids money when he passed, but it couldn't have been that much, because the girls were in debt and used credit cards to open Dash. In her first divorce papers, it said she only had $20K in her savings that her Dad gave her. She may have used that as the down payment on that condo she had when they first came on the scene.


----------



## Sassys

tweegy said:


> I remember him saying she knew... Apparently all his ex wives knew at some point. So I don't understand how she's shocked.. I'm thinking she probably really didn't think Bruce wanted to be a woman.
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji52]Bruce had breasts before?!


 
Why would a man take hormones, if he didn't want to be a woman? Yes, he said he had size B cups in the Diane Swayer interview and Kris knew he was on hormones in te 80's and saw the breast. He was on Hormones for 5yrs.


----------



## guccimamma

Sassys said:


> Thank you!!! Now I can understand a man letting himself go and having breast (doesn't mean they are on hormones). The man straight told her he was on Hormones. She is crying about, I didn't know if it was one day, one week, one month, etc. Bish please, He told you he was taking them, AND you know he crossed dressed. She is lying Point.Blank.Period



a B-cup Bruce former olympian had no earning potential.  

he wouldn't have been able to do his fitness videos with Kris if he was wearing a sports bra. 

all those macho-man-reach-your-potential inspirational paid corporate retreat speaking engagements wouldn't have happened.

his earnings have stalled....except now he can sell his transition story for millions.


----------



## tweegy

Sassys said:


> Why would a man take hormones, if he didn't want to be a woman? Yes, he said he had size B cups in the Diane Swayer interview and Kris knew he was on hormones in te 80's and saw the breast. He was on Hormones for 5yrs.




[emoji53] Well damn... And she's shocked?


----------



## Sassys

tweegy said:


> [emoji53] Well damn... And she's shocked?


 
She claims, he never told her how long he was on the hormones. She's crying saying, she didn't know if it was one week or one month. BULL. You knew he took them and he liked to cross dress. How stupid can one be? Kris is not a dumb woman, she knew exactly what was going on, and she didn't care. She was married to Bruce Jenner, and she was going to get something out of it.


----------



## tweegy

Sassys said:


> She claims, he never told her how long he was on the hormones. She's crying saying, she didn't know if it was one week or one month. BULL. You knew he took them and he liked to cross dress. How stupid can one be? Kris is not a dumb woman, she knew exactly what was going on, and she didn't care. She was married to Bruce Jenner, and she was going to get something out of it.




Exactly. That's what I didn't get. They all claim they knew for a while but still shocked the man wants to switch ...


----------



## Oryx816

Sassys said:


> Thank you!!! Now I can understand a man letting himself go and having breast (doesn't mean they are on hormones). The man straight told her he was on Hormones. She is crying about, I didn't know if it was one day, one week, one month, etc. Bish please, He told you he was taking them, AND you know he crossed dressed. She is lying Point.Blank.Period




All of this!  This crying bit is all theatre!  She knew exactly who he was and what she is getting into but wants people's sympathy, otherwise all she would get is the scorn and supercilious side eyes that we are giving her here.  She is so full of it!


----------



## ByeKitty

Sassys said:


> *I don't recall that.* I do remember Bruce telling Rob Sr. He didn't have to give her alimony, he would take care of her.
> 
> Rob Sr. left the kids money when he passed, but it couldn't have been that much, because the girls were in debt and used credit cards to open Dash. In her first divorce papers, it said she only had $20K in her savings that her Dad gave her. She may have used that as the down payment on that condo she had when they first came on the scene.



Found it, did not recall entirely correctly as I read it a few years ago. Basically, Kris - being her natural self - demanded a lot of money during the divorce case, and Rob Sr claimed he didn't have enough money to cover her massive demands and to pay of the credit card debts she made during their marriage:



> In her petition, *Kris goes on to detail her tastes for fancy restaurants and boutiques, high-priced European holidays and lavish home entertainment * The New Years Eve party alone cost between $10,000 and $12,000.* Since January 1990 the petitioner has essentially cut me off from all funds.
> 
> In order to have some cash at my disposal to meet the basic needs of myself and my children, I have taken a job offered to me by my friend who has just gone through a divorce.
> 
> (But) I am earning less money than our paid household help, Kris said.
> 
> *Robert, at the time, claimed to be unemployed and only earning $2,000*, but Kris told the court it was voluntary as he wanted more money than what had been offered to him by a law firm, so she demanded he be ordered to work to cover her and the familys expenses * which monthly added up to a massive $37,189!
> 
> According to Kris sworn statement this included the $15,000 a month mortgage payment on the Beverly Hills home, wages for a gardener, a maid and housekeeper as well as clothing costs. According to Kris, each month she spent $800 on clothing for all four children but spent $2000 on herself.
> 
> *Kris lawyers also demanded Robert pay for the familys extensive debts on store cards for some of Los Angeles top stores including Neiman Marcus and Saks 5th Avenue * which had grown to more than $21,000.*



http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/01/kris-jenner-robert-kardashian-divorce-details-documents/


----------



## chowlover2

ByeKitty said:


> Found it, did not recall entirely correctly as I read it a few years ago. Basically, Kris - being her natural self - demanded a lot of money during the divorce case, and Rob Sr claimed he didn't have enough money to cover her massive demands and to pay of the credit card debts she made during their marriage:
> 
> 
> 
> http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/01/kris-jenner-robert-kardashian-divorce-details-documents/



WOW! I bet they still don't have much money in the bank.They spend it as fast as they make it.


----------



## guccimamma

kris told him her desire to rule the world, maximize his brand name,  and told him to get rid of the boobs and fly right... 

and that's how it went, until she figured out she could capitalize on her daughters.

she's brilliant, like satan.


----------



## Sassys

guccimamma said:


> kris told him her desire to rule the world, maximize his brand name,  and told him to get rid of the boobs and fly right...
> 
> and that's how it went, until she figured out she could capitalize on her daughters.
> 
> she's brilliant, like satan.


 
Can I get an AMEN up in here!!

Kris said, If those damn Osbournes can get PAID and famous, my 6 kids can do it too.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I can't believe I squeezed out a tear for her. Fell for it sink, line and hooker! Lol


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> I can't believe I squeezed out a tear for her. Fell for it sink, line and hooker! Lol


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I can't believe I squeezed out a tear for her. Fell for it sink, line and hooker! Lol




[emoji57] I saw what you did there ..


----------



## pukasonqo

Coach Lover Too said:


> I can't believe I squeezed out a tear for her. Fell for it sink, line and hooker! Lol




between this and the klusterf%^^#* comment i can only say: you are on a roll! [emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;


----------



## guccimamma

Coach Lover Too said:


> They need to rename themselves *The KlusterF**ks*



watch out, rob may try to trademark it...maybe use it to sell some socks


----------



## Katel

Encore Hermes said:


> Haven't read anything about the car accident/death after the initial report that he is being sued by the family.


 
you must have been in the spirit girl - this just broke...

*http://my.xfinity.com/articles/entertainment-eonline/20150527/b660462/*

*Bruce Jenner Responds to Wrongful Death Lawsuit Stemming From Fatal Car Crash*

*Bruce Jenner* has responded to a *wrongful death lawsuit* filed against him after a *fatal car accident* this past February in Malibu. 

(At this time, Bruce Jenner is choosing to not live publicly in the media as a woman and will be referred to as Bruce Jenner and with male pronouns until he specifies otherwise.)

The wreck left one driver, 69-year-old *Kimberly Howe*, dead, and five others injured after the four-car pileup on the Pacific Coast Highway. 

According to court papers obtained by E! News, Jenner describes the car accident as "a terrible tragedy" but claims the Plaintiffs are "financially independent and successful&#8230;living and working and residing out-of-state for decades, who do not and cannot allege that they are financially dependent upon their stepmother for the necessities of life." 

*RELATED: Bruce Jenner breaks silence after crash *

In early May, Howe's two adult stepchildren, *William Howe* and *Dana Redmond*, filed the lawsuit alleging that the impact of Jenner's SUV "propelled" Kimberly into the other lane. 

"The defendants and each of them were also otherwise careless, negligent and/or otherwise responsible in causing the death of decedent and damage to her effects," the suit contended. "The death of Kimberly Howe caused plaintiffs to suffer enormous damages."

*PHOTOS: Kardashian family pics *

William and Dana demanded a jury trial as well as unspecified damages. They also claim that Kimberly's death caused them to lose "the love, affection, support, comfort, society, financial support and more from [Kimberly] upon whom they were dependent" and incur other expenses "to their great detriment."

Shortly after the accident took place, Jenner *released the following statement* to E! News: "My heartfelt and deepest sympathies go out to the family and loved ones, and to all of those who were involved or injured in this terrible accident." 

He continued, "It is a devastating tragedy and I cannot pretend to imagine what this family is going through at this time. I am praying for them. I will continue to cooperate in every way possible."

_~reported by Eonline_
_TMZ was the first to __*report* __the story. _
*&#8212;Additional reporting by Baker Machado.* 



also a blurb on people online:
http://www.people.com/article/bruce-jenner-files-response-wrongful-death-lawsuit


----------



## Katel

guccimamma said:


> kris told him her desire to rule the world, maximize his brand name, and told him to get rid of the boobs and fly right...
> 
> and that's how it went, until she figured out she could capitalize on her daughters.
> 
> she's brilliant, like satan.


 
Yes and Amen!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Sassys said:


>


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I dunno how to multi quote so this is for all the funny comments!


----------



## Lounorada

chowlover2 said:


> WOW! I bet they still don't have much money in the bank.They spend it as fast as they make it.



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Jayne1

They can always sell their  houses, no?  Those houses must be worth so much and I assume, they put as much down as they could or am I old fashioned in that thinking?


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> They can always sell their  houses, no?  Those houses must be worth so much and I assume, they put as much down as they could&#8230; or am I old fashioned in that thinking?



I'm sure they could but even then... Remember that big hack in 2013, where the social security numbers and credit details of many celebrities were posted online? It confirmed that Kris has unpaid loans all over the place! I remember them adding up to about a million dollars in car loans alone.


----------



## Sassys

ByeKitty said:


> I'm sure they could but even then... Remember that big hack in 2013, where the social security numbers and credit details of many celebrities were posted online? It confirmed that Kris has unpaid loans all over the place! I remember them adding up to about a million dollars in car loans alone.


 
Kim and Kanye were also hacked and Kim also had a lot of big balances and very little in the bank. I don't remember what they showed for Kanye.


----------



## Jikena

Sassys said:


> Kim and Kanye were also hacked and Kim also had a lot of big balances and very little in the bank. I don't remember what they showed for Kanye.



Is there a link for those info... ?


----------



## tweegy

Sooo.... Saw on tv he made it official 3 weeks ago... 


Also they have offers coming in from people wanting to dress him for when he comes out public...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Looks like he's gonna be on the cover of Vanity Fair.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/2...r?hootPostID=e589cde1413574d3d4b4be8fdffc49ad


http://www.people.com/article/bruce-jenner-lands-vanity-fair-cover-woman


----------



## Coach Lover Too




----------



## Encore Hermes

Just a guess,  he will be one of an ensemble cover. If true


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Seems as though the public's opinion about him is starting to change. I noticed at first there was some support with what he's going through, but now, most people seem to think he's turning things into a circus and needs to just go away. (at least that's the consensus on the sites I've read.)


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hmmm...I'm withholding my verdict - for now. We'll see what Vanity Fair brings.


----------



## Jayne1

I'm little turned off by his desire for a big reveal. Like a bride on her wedding day, no one can see the dress until she walks down the aisle, but this is more disturbing to me. 

Is it for shock value? I'm getting tired of his money making, attention seeing ways, although he just may break the internet the way Kim wanted to, but didn't.


----------



## AEGIS

well maybe Kim will finally be invited to the Vanity Fair Oscar after party...


----------



## bag-princess

* Bruce Jenners Female Name Revealed (REPORT)*





Bruce Jenner is no longer Bruce Jenner! 
  In Touch Weekly has learned that the 65-year-old, who recently came out as transgender, has picked his new female name! 
  A source close to the former Olympian tells In Touch Weekly his new moniker is *Kaitlyn*! 





Though the exact spelling hasnt been confirmed, we can understand if  he wanted to fit in with the other ladies in his family  you know, Kris, Kourtney, Kim, Khloé, Kendall and Kylie! 
  The source says friends have already started using the new name, even though the Keeping Up With the Kardashian star has yet to go under the knife for gender reassignment surgery  despite conflicting reports suggesting otherwise. 





Though his ex-wife, Heather Thompson, revealed that he once wanted to re-emerge in his sons Brandon and Brodys lives as a woman named Aunt Heather  he has kept quiet on his new name, only self-identifying as her.




(Editors Note: Bruce Jenner has clarified that he prefers the media  still use the familiar male pronouns, so we will respect his wishes  until he indicates otherwise.)








http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bruce-jenner-s-female-name-revealed-report-59478


----------



## guccimamma

a 65 year old kaitlyn?

spelled with a K

i think he has lost his mind.


----------



## Jayne1

bag-princess said:


> *Though his ex-wife, Heather Thompson,* revealed that he once wanted to re-emerge in his sons Brandon and Brodys lives as a woman named Aunt Heather  he has kept quiet on his new name, only self-identifying as her.


Her name isn't Heather.  What else did they get wrong.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Allrighty then...


----------



## bag-princess

Jayne1 said:


> Her name isn't Heather.  What else did they get wrong.





time will tell!


----------



## tweegy

Kaitlyn tho? [emoji53]

A name with a K.... Cmon Bruce, that's hardly inventive...[emoji136][emoji483]


----------



## skarsbabe

This joke keeps getting more and more hilarious... the entire family is nuts!


----------



## guccimamma

kate, katherine, kelly...

something more fitting his generation and physical stature...

kaitlyn is a 16 year old girl


----------



## Encore Hermes

In February it was Belinda

He was born  William Bruce, maybe he will do something with W. 
I like Bryce but he/she didn't ask my opinion


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> a 65 year old kaitlyn?
> 
> spelled with a K
> 
> i think he has lost his mind.



Pretty much the icing on the cake isn't it?!?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If we ever find out that he truly does suffer from a mental disorder, I just want to remind y'all (and Charles, wherever he went to) that I called it first!


----------



## labelwhore04

Encore Hermes said:


> In February it was Belinda
> 
> He was born  William Bruce, maybe he will do something with W.
> I like Bryce but he/she didn't ask my opinion



I like Bryce! Or Brenda maybe? I feel like it should be something close to his male name. Isnt thats what trans people usually do?


----------



## Sasha2012

guccimamma said:


> a 65 year old kaitlyn?
> 
> spelled with a K
> 
> i think he has lost his mind.


The name is the only indication to you that he's lost his mind?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If I didn't know better, I'd swear we were being punked.


----------



## Michele26

Coach Lover Too said:


> If we ever find out that he truly does suffer from a mental disorder, I just want to remind y'all (and Charles, wherever he went to) that I called it first!




Wish I could remember the name of the psychiatrist whose done extensive research on this subject. Anyway...he says it's a mental disorder.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Michele26 said:


> Wish I could remember the name of the psychiatrist whose done extensive research on this subject. Anyway...he says it's a mental disorder.



That is SO degrading to people who are transgender. 

*smh*


----------



## Katel

Michele26 said:


> Wish I could remember the name of the psychiatrist whose done extensive research on this subject. Anyway...he says it's a mental disorder.





FreeSpirit71 said:


> That is SO degrading to people who are transgender.
> 
> *smh*




Maybe Michele means that the dr/disorder assessment pertains to Bruce - not transgender people worldwide...


----------



## pukasonqo

FreeSpirit71 said:


> That is SO degrading to people who are transgender.
> 
> 
> 
> *smh*




agree


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> If I didn't know better, I'd swear we were being punked.



Hahaha!!!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Katel said:


> Maybe Michele means that the dr/disorder assessment pertains to Bruce - not transgender people worldwide...



And that's better??


----------



## Katel

FreeSpirit71 said:


> And that's better??



Did I say that? 

Guess it depends on your point of view.

My pt of view is - Bruce Jenner can do whatever he wants - it's his business. All of it. We can buy in or not...that's our business.

And - it's still my right to have my OWN opinion (in the US anyway....currently) - that's my business. And everyone on this forum, hopefully, has the same right.

The real fascists, in my mind, are the ones who think they have some right to control other people's opinions.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Ugh...whatever. I (and others) have repeatedly stated that while we side eye Bruce, that the way over the line comments about transgender issues and making fun of it is too much.

Calling you out on prejudices is not fascism - lol. Get a dictionary.


----------



## Katel

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Ugh...whatever. I (and others) have repeatedly stated that while we side eye Bruce, that the way over the line comments about transgender issues and making fun of it is too much.
> 
> Calling you out on prejudices is not fascism - lol. Get a dictionary.



Lol to you too hon. That's even more hysterical considering I support Bruce/Kaitlyn. You actually don't know what you're talking about here.

No one made fun of anyone. That was your perception. Michele posted data she had found.

"Ugh" ing and "lol" ing and making snide comments about dictionaries is attempting to intimidate people from stating their opinions and that is the beginning of fascism in my book.

You know what? I agree to support your right to your opinion even though I may not agree with it - try it - It's very liberating. 

Fascism | Define Fascism at Dictionary.com
dictionary.reference.com 
Mobile-friendly - (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, *forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism*, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Wrong AGAIN.

Some people here think its a free-for-all to laugh at transgender issues. That's not okay. I know we have transgender folk on this forum, many have commented on this very thread.

We have people who work with transgender people who have also commented here.

Step into their shoes for one minute.

Saying transgender is a mental illness? If you think that's okay, that's on you. But I'm not going to sit here and be quiet about it. I'm ALSO entitled to an opinion including about what you and others write on this thread.

Bruce gets a side eye from me,  but not for being transgender, for the way he's handling the media and hype.


----------



## ByeKitty

I can't with this thread!


----------



## guccimamma

if i was a smoker, i'd step outside right now.


----------



## Katel

FreeSpirit71 said:


> ....




Wrong AGAIN. 

Some people here think its a free-for-all to laugh at transgender issues. That's not okay. I know we have transgender folk on this forum, many have commented on this very thread.

You may have missed my point - but you emphasize it perfectly here - Having my own opinion does not make me wrong and you right. Nor vice-versa.

We have people who work with transgender people who have also commented here.

Step into their shoes for one minute.

Saying transgender is a mental illness? If you think that's okay, that's on you. Of course it isn't -did I say it is? Uhhhh...no. 

But I'm not going to sit here and be quiet about it. Super duper! No one asked you to be quiet. 

I'm ALSO entitled to an opinion including about what you and others write on this thread. Just don't ASSume someone has and is stating an opinion when they haven't -at all...pls don't put words in people's mouths (it also weakens your argument). Don't throw insults at people for stating their opinion.


Because it seems you don't want to allow people who don't share your opinion on this topic to speak? (Which is not me, by the way &#8211; we are in agreement about Bruce.)


Where is my froggy with her teacup 


Bruce gets a side eye from me, but not for being transgender, for the way he's handling the media and hype.

I&#8217;m out &#8211; you can have the last word if you like. 

I&#8217;m not so much a transgender activist as a FREEDOM activist. Which covers every freedom 

Have a great day.


----------



## labelwhore04

FreeSpirit71 said:


> That is SO degrading to people who are transgender.
> 
> *smh*



It's "technically" classified as a disorder because it's in the DSM, and it does have to be diagnosed by a doctor in order to receive treatment(hormone tharapy, sex change operations,etc). Gender Dysphoria has all the criteria to be classified as a mental illness, formally speaking. Anything that needs formal medical treatment makes sense to be classified that way. I personally don't think mental ilness should be so stigmatized and seen as a bad thing, but that will takes years to change. People get offended over the classification because of the stigma associated with mental disorders, but lets be honest, gender dysphoria is a disorder, it's not "normal" and it interferes with everyday life if it's not treated. Trans people will never be happy if they have to hide their true identity and can't live their life in the body that they feel is right. So to fix that, they visit with psychologists, medical doctors, plastic surgeons, etc to get therapy, a diagnosis and ultimately treatment. So that's my understanding of why it's classified as a disorder and why i don't think a "disorder" or "mental illness" should have such a negative connotation.


----------



## Bentley1

labelwhore04 said:


> It's "technically" classified as a disorder because it's in the DSM, and it does have to be diagnosed by a doctor in order to receive treatment(hormone tharapy, sex change operations,etc). Gender Dysphoria has all the criteria to be classified as a mental illness, formally speaking. Anything that needs formal medical treatment makes sense to be classified that way. I personally don't think mental ilness should be so stigmatized and seen as a bad thing, but that will takes years to change. People get offended over the classification because of the stigma associated with mental disorders, but lets be honest, gender dysphoria is a disorder, it's not "normal" and it interferes with everyday life if it's not treated. Trans people will never be happy if they have to hide their true identity and can't live their life in the body that they feel is right. So to fix that, they visit with psychologists, medical doctors, plastic surgeons, etc to get therapy, a diagnosis and ultimately treatment. So that's my understanding of why it's classified as a disorder and why i don't think a "disorder" or "mental illness" should have such a negative connotation.




Good points


----------



## ByeKitty

Katel said:


> Wrong AGAIN.
> 
> Some people here think its a free-for-all to laugh at transgender issues. That's not okay. I know we have transgender folk on this forum, many have commented on this very thread.
> 
> You may have missed my point - but you emphasize it perfectly here - Having my own opinion does not make me wrong and you right. Nor vice-versa.
> 
> We have people who work with transgender people who have also commented here.
> 
> Step into their shoes for one minute.
> 
> Saying transgender is a mental illness? If you think that's okay, that's on you. Of course it isn't -did I say it is? Uhhhh...no.
> 
> But I'm not going to sit here and be quiet about it. Super duper! No one asked you to be quiet.
> 
> I'm ALSO entitled to an opinion including about what you and others write on this thread. Just don't ASSume someone has and is stating an opinion when they haven't -at all...pls don't put words in people's mouths (it also weakens your argument). Don't throw insults at people for stating their opinion.
> 
> 
> Because it seems you don't want to allow people who don't share your opinion on this topic to speak? (Which is not me, by the way  we are in agreement about Bruce.)
> 
> 
> Where is my froggy with her teacup
> 
> 
> Bruce gets a side eye from me, but not for being transgender, for the way he's handling the media and hype.
> 
> Im out  you can have the last word if you like.
> 
> Im not so much a transgender activist as a FREEDOM activist. Which covers every freedom


I have a very hard time with people using terms such as "freedom of speech" as a type of carte blanche to offend. Here's the logic: Yes, this is a free country, and therefore it is my right to call everyone who says that my opinion on [insert sensitive topic] is unacceptable a fascist! And in saying that, paradoxally, you are equally unaccepting of other people's input - so does that make _you_ a fascist, too? 

The thing with "freedom of speech" is that, if everyone took it as literally as you just did, a country could no longer be considered free - unless you count anarchy as freedom.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

@Labelwhore I get what your saying, really. But these last two-three pages have been a hot mess, frankly IMO.

I do get that perhaps some of it is due to this being a confusing issue, and a lot because of how Bruce is handling this. I've seen lots of interviews with trans-folk this past week and they are LESS than impressed with how Bruce and the K's are handling this.

I hope Vanity Fair is not Bruce alone. There are many more transgender people out there who are more positive role models.  I actually don't like Bruce, which may come as a surprise.

I was hoping though that his story might help bring acceptance for others, going through it. I've read so many stories about how difficult the journey is, especially in less-accepting parts of the world.

I think Bruce is fair game when it comes to media manipulation etc..but maybe sensitivity towards the trans journey is ok too?


----------



## tweegy

guccimamma said:


> if i was a smoker, i'd step outside right now.




[emoji377] I'll join u ...I was looking to start..


----------



## Bentley1

I will admit I'm having judgments about his name choice.  I just can't with Kaitlyn.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Bentley1 said:


> I will admit I'm having judgments about his name choice.  I just can't with Kaitlyn.



I know...WHYYYYYYY did it have be a K name?


----------



## prettyprincess

tweegy said:


> [emoji377] I'll join u ...I was looking to start..




:lolots: That was good.


----------



## Bentley1

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I know...WHYYYYYYY did it have be a K name?




LOL, I swear I thought it was a joke. He did admit on KUWTK that he always felt left out and a little bit jealous of all the women in the family, maybe this is a way to fit in even more with them.


----------



## labelwhore04

Bentley1 said:


> LOL, I swear I thought it was a joke. He did admit on KUWTK that he always felt left out and a little bit jealous of all the women in the family, maybe this is a way to fit in even more with them and be part of the "sisterhood."



Well we don't know for sure if that's actually the name he's chosen. InTouch Weekly couldn't even get the name of his ex-wife right so i doubt they know what they're talking about. We'll see though, Kaitlyn is a 15 yr old girl name. He should go with something more mature. I could really see him as a Brenda or something similar.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Katel said:


> Maybe Michele means that the dr/disorder assessment pertains to Bruce - not transgender people worldwide...



That's how I perceived the comment. Directed towards Bruce only.


----------



## Eva1991

labelwhore04 said:


> It's "technically" classified as a disorder because it's in the DSM, and it does have to be diagnosed by a doctor in order to receive treatment(hormone tharapy, sex change operations,etc). Gender Dysphoria has all the criteria to be classified as a mental illness, formally speaking. Anything that needs formal medical treatment makes sense to be classified that way. I personally don't think mental ilness should be so stigmatized and seen as a bad thing, but that will takes years to change. People get offended over the classification because of the stigma associated with mental disorders, but lets be honest, gender dysphoria is a disorder, it's not "normal" and it interferes with everyday life if it's not treated. Trans people will never be happy if they have to hide their true identity and can't live their life in the body that they feel is right. So to fix that, they visit with psychologists, medical doctors, plastic surgeons, etc to get therapy, a diagnosis and ultimately treatment. So that's my understanding of why it's classified as a disorder and why i don't think a "disorder" or "mental illness" should have such a negative connotation.



Very good post. 

The problem doesn't lie on whether or not we classify gender dysphoria as a mental disorder but on the way society perceives and stigmatizes mental disorders in general.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I don't understand why every.single.celebrity. on these threads are fair game, but when it comes to Bruce, unless it's something positive, it's off limits.

I see nothing wrong with thinking he may be suffering from a mental disorder. Lerd knows that's not uncommon. He seems terribly confused, still referring as his female side as *HER.* That's what he was calling himself up until this latest article came out. Why not ME instead? Why a split personality? I think it speaks volumes that a large percentage of transgenders are questioning his choices also. Some people here are touchy if we say he's confused, or that he's faking it or that he's doing it for publicity/money. It's becoming ridiculous that we have to tiptoe around as to not upset others that are genuinely dealing with certain issues that Bruce wants us to believe he's dealing with.

 I question why some here are so willing to take him at face value.
I happen to take everything that him AND his family say with a grain of salt. The public didn't make that choice for them, they've brought it upon themselves.

I don't smoke or drink but someone pass me a cigarette and a beer.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> That is SO degrading to people who are transgender.
> 
> *smh*



Bruce faking it, doing it for publicity/money/ratings or flat out lying about it is what's degrading to those that truly are transgender.

*IF* that's what he's doing. I'm not convinced at this point that he's being honest.


----------



## Katel

ByeKitty said:


> I have a very hard time with people using terms such as "freedom of speech" as a type of carte blanche to offend. Here's the logic: Yes, this is a free country, and *therefore it is my right to call everyone who says that my opinion on [insert sensitive topic] is unacceptable a fascist! *.....



I said the opposite - that NO one's opinion should be "deemed" unacceptable...I think you may have misunderstood my point.


----------



## Lounorada

ByeKitty said:


> I can't with this thread!



+1

Yep, I'm like...


----------



## labelwhore04

Coach Lover Too said:


> I don't understand why every.single.celebrity. on these threads are fair game, but when it comes to Bruce, unless it's something positive, it's off limits.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with thinking he may be suffering from a mental disorder. Lerd knows that's not uncommon. He seems terribly confused, still referring as his female side as *HER.* That's what he was calling himself up until this latest article came out. Why not ME instead? Why a split personality? I think it speaks volumes that a large percentage of transgenders are questioning his choices also. Some people here are touchy if we say he's confused, or that he's faking it or that he's doing it for publicity/money. It's becoming ridiculous that we have to tiptoe around as to not upset others that are genuinely dealing with certain issues that Bruce wants us to believe he's dealing with.
> 
> I question why some here are so willing to take him at face value.
> I happen to take everything that him AND his family say with a grain of salt. The public didn't make that choice for them, they've brought it upon themselves.
> 
> I don't smoke or drink but someone pass me a cigarette and a beer.



He's been seeing psychologists/therapists who have determined that he IS transgender because that's how he's getting access to hormone treatment. They don't just give that stuff to anyone. I don't understand what he could possibly do to get you to believe it? Like does he have to put his balls in a jar? And of course he's confused. That's the whole issue with being transgender. Your body is one way but your mind is telling you something else, of course that would be confusing. He's been living as a man for 65 years, it would be weird if he wasn't a little bit confused on how to proceed as a different gender. You should watch the documentary "Intersexion." It's not about trans people but it's about people who are born intersex and it explains a lot about the mental components of gender identity.


----------



## ByeKitty

Katel said:


> I said the opposite - that NO one's opinion should be "deemed" unacceptable...I think you may have misunderstood my point.



I'm not trying to get into an argument here, but I think you have misunderstood my point. To think that some comments are off limits is _also_ an opinion. And because in this particular discussion you considered your own point of view an opinion and the other point of view a fascist attempt at controlling your opinion, it came across to me like you were talking past each other.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Just to clarify my earlier comment. I don't think Bruce is transgender. I think he's confused and that confusion is because of a mental illness. There is a separation of the two.


----------



## Bentley1

labelwhore04 said:


> Well we don't know for sure if that's actually the name he's chosen. InTouch Weekly couldn't even get the name of his ex-wife right so i doubt they know what they're talking about. We'll see though, Kaitlyn is a 15 yr old girl name. He should go with something more mature. I could really see him as a Brenda or something similar.




Ok, so it hasn't been confirmed. I just skimmed through and saw Kaitlyn and was like [emoji52]


----------



## Jayne1

It can not be Kaitlyn because Brody's GF has a Kaitlyn type name and Bruce is a money hungry, self absorbed famewhore, but he's not stupid enough to take his son's GF's name.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

labelwhore04 said:


> He's been seeing psychologists/therapists who have determined that he IS transgender because that's how he's getting access to hormone treatment. They don't just give that stuff to anyone. I don't understand what he could possibly do to get you to believe it? Like does he have to put his balls in a jar? And of course he's confused. That's the whole issue with being transgender. Your body is one way but your mind is telling you something else, of course that would be confusing. He's been living as a man for 65 years, it would be weird if he wasn't a little bit confused on how to proceed as a different gender. You should watch the documentary "Intersexion." It's not about trans people but it's about people who are born intersex and it explains a lot about the mental components of gender identity.



I'm pretty sure his balls have been in Kris's bag for years now. That could very well be part of his problem. It's obvious she's emasculated him.

Honestly, there may not be anything he can do to convince me because his credibility is shot all to hell as far as I'm concerned. I think he's done a disservice to the transgender population. First it was the special, now it's the cover of Vanity Fair, then he'll announce the name *after* the ink is dry on the check. He seems to be milking it for all it's worth. Who in their right mind, that is truly suffering like he claims to be does that? Wouldn't he be more help to them if he were continuing his motivational speaking and living his so called transition respectfully  instead of turning it into a three ring circus?


----------



## labelwhore04

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just to clarify my earlier comment. I don't think Bruce is transgender. I think he's confused and that confusion is because of a mental illness. There is a separation of the two.



So you're saying you know his situation better than trained psychologists and therapists? It's not "confusion" if you've felt this way since a child and have gotten divorced 3 times because of it. This has been ongoing since forever, and his wives have even confirmed it. Gender identity issues are rarely something that stems from another mental condition. It's one thing if he was having some psychotic episode but that's obviously not the case.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

labelwhore04 said:


> So you're saying you know his situation better than trained psychologists and therapists? It's not "confusion" if you've felt this way since a child and have gotten divorced 3 times because of it. This has been ongoing since forever, and his wives have even confirmed it. Gender identity issues are rarely something that stems from another mental condition. It's one thing if he was having some psychotic episode but that's obviously not the case.




The only thing the ex's have confirmed is the fact that he liked to cross dress. He even admitted that when he married Kris he wasn't as honest with her as he should have been and she had no idea what he was really thinking. 
I don't think any of them (K family) are capable of telling the truth.


----------



## Katel

ByeKitty said:


> I'm not trying to get into an argument here, but I think you have misunderstood my point. To think that* some comments are off limits is also an opinion. *And because in this particular discussion you considered your own point of view an opinion and the other point of view a fascist attempt at controlling your opinion, it came across to me like you were talking past each other.


 
Nor am I - but again, I think you may misunderstand my point, as I don't think there *are* any off limit comments! (that was not me ) 

I never said anyone's comments were off limits...only comments presented in a way that seems to state "my way is the only right way"...people should be able to intelligently discuss and debate opposing opinions...the only comments I find off limits are ones that are insulting in tone and attempt to intimidate a person from stating their opinion. 

That is where people freak out...just because a person doesn't agree with another person, it doesn't make either wrong or right. 

I totally respect your (and anyone's) right to disagree. Hopefully we can all have respectful exchanges. 

I agree that "Bruce" is complex topic (not so much transgenders) and it is partly because Bruce is part of a fame-ho family...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

IF he hadn't allowed himself to get involved with the K family, my outlook could very well be different, or if he were still with Linda Thompson, then yes, I imagine myself giving him the benefit of the doubt but because everyone knows how scripted, exaggerated and flat out dishonest they can be, that's exactly why I feel the way I do.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Katel said:


> Nor am I - but again, I think you may misunderstand my point, as I don't think there *are* any off limit comments! (that was not me )
> 
> I never said anyone's comments were off limits...only comments presented in a way that seems to state "my way is the only right way"...people should be able to intelligently discuss and debate opposing opinions...the only comments I find off limits are ones that are insulting in tone and attempt to intimidate a person from stating their opinion.
> 
> That is where people freak out...just because a person doesn't agree with another person, it doesn't make either wrong or right.
> 
> I totally respect your (and anyone's) right to disagree. Hopefully we can all have respectful exchanges.
> 
> I agree that "Bruce" is complex topic (not so much transgenders) and it is partly because Bruce is part of a fame-ho family...




Well said.


----------



## ByeKitty

Katel said:


> Nor am I - but again, I think you may misunderstand my point, as I don't think there *are* any off limit comments! (that was not me )
> 
> I never said anyone's comments were off limits...only comments presented in a way that seems to state "my way is the only right way"...people should be able to intelligently discuss and debate opposing opinions...the only comments I find off limits are ones that are insulting in tone and attempt to intimidate a person from stating their opinion.
> 
> That is where people freak out...just because a person doesn't agree with another person, it doesn't make either wrong or right.
> 
> I totally respect your (and anyone's) right to disagree. Hopefully we can all have respectful exchanges.
> 
> I agree that "Bruce" is complex topic (not so much transgenders) and it is partly because Bruce is part of a fame-ho family...



In the highlighted part I was actually referring to the poster that you were arguing with, so no, you never said that. I was trying to point out why this discussion, the way it was going, is not viable: people were arguing on different tracks. Calling other people's opinions fascist doesn't help in keeping a discussion intelligent, may I add. 
Let my try to explain it once more: There are 2 different discussions going on at the same time, that are getting mixed up. One is about Bruce and how genuine this whole ordeal is. The other is about whether you can say things that might be perceived as controversial without getting called out on it. In the second discussion, you called people with opposing views fascist - while people were, from what I saw, merely stating their opinions.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Being transgender could be on a spectrum.

I'm really interested to see what the defining characteristic of being a transvestite vs transgender is. I haven't been able to find much info on it. It must be a lesser form, but have similar characteristics, of being transgender.


----------



## glamourous1098

blackkitty4378 said:


> Being transgender could be on a spectrum.
> 
> I'm really interested to see what the defining characteristic of being a transvestite vs transgender is. I haven't been able to find much info on it. It must be a lesser form, but have similar characteristics, of being transgender.




As I've had it explained to me (and someone, please correct me if I'm wrong!) being a transvestite is about gender presentation.  For example, someone can be a man who enjoys dressing as a woman, but biologically he feels like a man.  For someone who is transgender, their "insides do not match their outsides."  So for example, someone transgender might be born male but biologically they feel female, even if they are in a male body.  Hope that helps!


----------



## ByeKitty

glamourous1098 said:


> As I've had it explained to me (and someone, please correct me if I'm wrong!) being a transvestite is about gender presentation.  For example, someone can be a man who enjoys dressing as a woman, but biologically he feels like a man.  For someone who is transgender, their "insides do not match their outsides."  So for example, someone transgender might be born male but biologically they feel female, even if they are in a male body.  Hope that helps!



Yes, but it's interesting to think of transvestites having some place on the broad spectrum that is gender identity... There may be some men that don't feel uncomfortable being male all the time (and therefore are not decidedly "transgender"), for whom being a "woman" for the night might feel like a type of relief or something. Interesting, never thought about that.


----------



## Katel

ByeKitty said:


> In the highlighted part I was actually referring to the poster that you were arguing with, so no, you never said that. I was trying to point out why this discussion, the way it was going, is not viable: people were arguing on different tracks. *Calling other people's opinions fascist doesn't help in keeping a discussion intelligent, may I add.*
> 
> 
> Let my try to explain it once more: There are 2 different discussions going on at the same time, that are getting mixed up. One is about Bruce and how genuine this whole ordeal is. The other is about whether you can say things that might be perceived as controversial without getting called out on it. *In the second discussion, you called people with opposing views fascist - while people were, from what I saw, merely stating their opinions*.


 
ummm beating a dead horse here... but no...I did not do this. I did not say the other poster's (who does not even have a differing opinion to me!) POV was fascist. quite the opposite.

and where this is really funny is this discussion began when I suggested a potential subtlety re: the poster's comment about a pyschologist....
if you go back and read, you'll see I presented NO OPINION WHATSOEVER. 

I don't think anyone who has opposing views to  me are fascist - until they tell me I HAVE to agree with them.

anyway I'm sure most readers are growing weary of this - let's agree to be obtuse together? 

I wish the best for Bruce Jenner in his life journey and hope he finds happiness....but it is hard to deny that things have become a little messy IMO considering he just escaped the K-Klan and his journey "seems" IMO to be a little "staged" right now.


----------



## blackkitty4378

It's interesting how some people believe that others can't be bisexual-- you're either gay or straight. I'm sure bisexuals would disagree!

We'll never know how other people are truly feeling inside. Something like "transgender," at least acknowledging that it exists, is so new and there's no way to measure how transgender someone is. Bruce could enjoy just looking and feeling more like a woman and that could be enough for him to go through surgeries and hormones. Who really knows.

There are some people who are so strict with their gender norms that they consider it odd when women wear pants. A lot of it is really a matter of perspective.


----------



## Swanky

Not that Michele needs me to back her up, but she didn't ever say being trangendered is a mental issue, she mere's agreed with a member . . .
"_If we ever find out that he truly does suffer from a mental disorder_, I just want to remind y'all (and Charles, wherever he went to) that I called it first! "


----------



## guccimamma

my name pick would be Dorthy


----------



## Pinkcooper

He will call himself Brucerly [emoji16][emoji23] and then he'll start getting fat injections in his butt


----------



## Jayne1

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Not that Michele needs me to back her up, but she didn't ever say being trangendered is a mental issue, she mere's agreed with a member . . .
> "_If we ever find out that he truly does suffer from a mental disorder_, I just want to remind y'all (and Charles, wherever he went to) that I called it first! "



Called what first? I'm so confused. lol

I just want to see what he'll look like.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> Called what first? I'm so confused. lol
> 
> I just want to see what he'll look like.



It was my comment that's causing the confusion. lol

I stated that I thought Bruce suffered from a mental disorder *instead of* being transgendered and it went downhill from there. 
I dunno if I want to see what he looks like or not, because if he's, (let me see how to say this nicely), not attractive I might be tempted to comment.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> It was my comment that's causing the confusion. lol
> 
> I stated that I thought Bruce suffered from a mental disorder *instead of* being transgendered and it went downhill from there.
> I dunno if I want to see what he looks like or not, because if he's, (let me see how to say this nicely), not attractive I might be tempted to comment.



We'll all be very polite. I'm calling it now.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> We'll all be very polite. I'm calling it now.



Well what's polite to one isn't always polite to another. That was proven when talk was taking place about Kourtney and Scott's kids. 
Instead of saying Bruce is ugly, I'll just say he must have been a beautiful child.


----------



## V0N1B2

blackkitty4378 said:


> *It's interesting how some people believe that others can't be bisexual-- you're either gay or straight. I'm sure bisexuals would disagree!*
> 
> We'll never know how other people are truly feeling inside. Something like "transgender," at least acknowledging that it exists, is so new and there's no way to measure how transgender someone is. Bruce could enjoy just looking and feeling more like a woman and that could be enough for him to go through surgeries and hormones. Who really knows.
> 
> There are some people who are so strict with their gender norms that they consider it odd when women wear pants. A lot of it is really a matter of perspective.


What people?  Like people in general? Priests? People with blonde hair? People who winter in Florida?


----------



## blackkitty4378

V0N1B2 said:


> What people?  Like people in general? Priests? People with blonde hair? People who winter in Florida?



Not trying to generalize. I've heard plenty of people say they don't believe it, particularly when someone comes out as bisexual.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Sassys said:


> I don't recall that. I do remember Bruce telling Rob Sr. He didn't have to give her alimony, he would take care of her.
> 
> Rob Sr. left the kids money when he passed, but it couldn't have been that much, because the girls were in debt and used credit cards to open Dash. In her first divorce papers, it said she only had $20K in her savings that her Dad gave her. She may have used that as the down payment on that condo she had when they first came on the scene.



I recall reading a few years ago somewhere that Rob Sr. left his kids 1 million each. And Kourtney used it to open Dash and Smooch, Kimbo bought her condo and Khloe blew it all in less than a year.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

ByeKitty said:


> I'm sure they could but even then... Remember that big hack in 2013, where the social security numbers and credit details of many celebrities were posted online? It confirmed that Kris has unpaid loans all over the place! I remember them adding up to about a million dollars in car loans alone.





Sassys said:


> Kim and Kanye were also hacked and Kim also had a lot of big balances and very little in the bank. I don't remember what they showed for Kanye.



Yes. Kris had like SIX mortgages and Kimbo only had like $15,000 in her account. They aren't as wealthy as they make themselves out to be,they spend probably more than they earn through the stupid show and endorsements.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

It makes sense..it accounts for how desperate they are to stay in the media and keep the $$$ coming in.


----------



## br00kelynx

Gender is made up by society I.e. Women wear lipstick and dresses and men have beards and wear pants
Sex is how you were born
If a man wants to "dress as a woman" but keep his penis I don't see that as a psychological disorder because of the fact that gender was made up by society
When you think you were born as the wrong sex that is where the psychological disorder comes into play

Not trying to offend anyone because I don't care who does what and think people with psychological disorders can live normal lives without being thought of as crazy


----------



## dangerouscurves

glamourous1098 said:


> As I've had it explained to me (and someone, please correct me if I'm wrong!) being a transvestite is about gender presentation.  For example, someone can be a man who enjoys dressing as a woman, but biologically he feels like a man.  For someone who is transgender, their "insides do not match their outsides."  So for example, someone transgender might be born male but biologically they feel female, even if they are in a male body.  Hope that helps!




This might explain the behavior of a friend of mine. He has long hair, and had a boob job. Always wearing THOT dresses but when I ask him why he just doesn't have gender reassignment surgery he said to have a D is good for business. Yeah, he/she is a prostitute.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Babydoll Chanel said:


> Yes. Kris had like SIX mortgages and Kimbo only had like $15,000 in her account. They aren't as wealthy as they make themselves out to be,they spend probably more than they earn through the stupid show and endorsements.


 
how in the world do you know how much is in someone's account?


----------



## Jikena

DC-Cutie said:


> how in the world do you know how much is in someone's account?




From a hack that happened in 2013. Hackers put personal (credit card etc) info of celebrities online. That's what she was talking about.


----------



## Oryx816

DC-Cutie said:


> how in the world do you know how much is in someone's account?




A whole lot of debt going on:
Here you go.....

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/kim-ka...uments-exposed-how-much-she-worth-nsfw-351812


----------



## Jikena

Oryx816 said:


> A whole lot of debt going on:
> Here you go.....
> 
> http://www.idigitaltimes.com/kim-ka...uments-exposed-how-much-she-worth-nsfw-351812



I don't really understand the English terms in this :
_The credit report showed that Kim has a $5.6M mortgage on her Los  Angeles home. But Kim paid only $4.8M on the home. This suggests that  Kim pocketed some of the EQUITY IN THE HOUSE for herself. The result  however, is that Kim has to pay $26K a month in mortgage payments.  YIKES!!

What does it mean ??
_


----------



## dangerouscurves

Oryx816 said:


> A whole lot of debt going on:
> Here you go.....
> 
> http://www.idigitaltimes.com/kim-ka...uments-exposed-how-much-she-worth-nsfw-351812




So, she's basically poor. That 10.000 dollars in her back means nothing when she has that much debts. Yikessss!!!!!


----------



## Oryx816

It means when she bought it, the cost was 4.8 million but she took out a loan for 5.6 million so she would have cash available in her pocket but it leaves her with a large monthly payment of $26,000.  

Basically, it is "borrowing from Peter to pay Paul".


----------



## emilu

Jikena said:


> I don't really understand the English terms in this :
> _The credit report showed that Kim has a $5.6M mortgage on her Los  Angeles home. But Kim paid only $4.8M on the home. This suggests that  Kim pocketed some of the EQUITY IN THE HOUSE for herself. The result  however, is that Kim has to pay $26K a month in mortgage payments.  YIKES!!
> 
> What does it mean ??
> _




It means she took out a loan for more than a purchase price of the house. Which means she got "cash" out as well (and I guess a bank was convinced the house was worth more than what she paid for it). This could have been orchestrated as a refinance or a second mortgage. As I don't think banks typically lend more than a purchase price and I imagine the bank would want the money tied to construction (ie upgrades to the home to increase the value of the asset and thus the bank's collateral).


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm pretty sure ordinary, everyday people couldn't take out a loan on a house that's more than what the house is worth. Usually they prefer at least a 20% down payment...and she wants to help Bruce handle his money!?!?!? :lolots:


----------



## pittcat

For a refinance, you can take up to 80% of the assessed value of the house less the remaining balance of the original loan (not sure if it varies by state). I just did it because we are renovating, so in our case, we bought our house for a very low price and now with gradual updates and improved market conditions in our area the house was assessed higher, so we were able to take cash out, but because we were in the middle of the renovations during the assessment they did withhold a portion (I wish I would have known that before!). I'm not sure how that works on an original purchase though.


----------



## AEGIS

blackkitty4378 said:


> Not trying to generalize. I've heard plenty of people say they don't believe it, particularly when someone comes out as bisexual.



Yea I have heard ppl in the LG community say that.  And Trans are like the stepchild in the LGBT community.....


----------



## blackkitty4378

Was out of the loop for the hack. Is it possible that they didn't find all of her bank accounts and that she possibly has others somewhere else? I just can't imagine only having that little money when you have that much debt. What they make from their businesses, show, and pap shots must be pennies compared to how they live.

Isn't Kim the one who said a few months back that if people are wondering what she does to "Ask her f****** bank account what she does."  How ironic.


----------



## blackkitty4378

AEGIS said:


> Yea I have heard ppl in the LG community say that.  And *Trans are like the stepchild in the LGBT community*.....



+1. That's a great way of putting it.


----------



## AEGIS

Bruce jenner new female name
BRUCE JENNER&#8217;S FEMALE
NAME REVEALED (REPORT)
May 29, 2015 4:11PM | by In Touch Weekly
Splash

Bruce Jenner is no longer Bruce Jenner!

In Touch Weekly has learned that the 65-year-old, who recently came out as transgender, has picked his new female name!

A source close to the former Olympian tells In Touch Weekly his new moniker is Kaitlyn!

Bruce Jenner

(Photo Credit: Splash)

Though the exact spelling hasn&#8217;t been confirmed, we can understand if he wanted to fit in with the other ladies in his family &#8212; you know, Kris, Kourtney, Kim, Khloé, Kendall and Kylie!

The source says friends have already started using the new name, even though the Keeping Up With the Kardashian star has yet to go under the knife for gender reassignment surgery &#8212; despite conflicting reports suggesting otherwise.

RELATED: Is Bruce Jenner Having More Work Done on His Face?!

Though his ex-wife, Heather Thompson, revealed that he once wanted to re-emerge in his sons Brandon and Brody&#8217;s lives as a woman named &#8220;Aunt Heather&#8221; &#8212; he has kept quiet on his new name, only self-identifying as &#8220;her.&#8221;

RELATED: Bruce Jenner Hits Back in Wrongful Death Suit

Even with a new moniker, &#8220;The World&#8217;s Greatest Athlete&#8221; insists he will still be the same person fans have come to know and love.

&#8220;I&#8217;m saying goodbye to people&#8217;s perception of me and who I am. But I&#8217;m not saying goodbye to me,&#8221; he told Diane Sawyer during the landmark interview last April.

&#8220;This has always been me.&#8221;

(Editor&#8217;s Note: Bruce Jenner has clarified that he prefers the media still use the familiar male pronouns, so we will respect his wishes until he indicates otherwise.)


http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bruce-jenner-s-female-name-revealed-report-59478


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Jikena said:


> From a hack that happened in 2013. Hackers put personal (credit card etc) info of celebrities online. That's what she was talking about.



Yep


----------



## Lapis

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm pretty sure his balls have been in Kris's bag for years now. That could very well be part of his problem. It's obvious she's emasculated him.
> 
> Honestly, there may not be anything he can do to convince me because his credibility is shot all to hell as far as I'm concerned. I think he's done a disservice to the transgender population. First it was the special, now it's the cover of Vanity Fair, then he'll announce the name *after* the ink is dry on the check. He seems to be milking it for all it's worth. Who in their right mind, that is truly suffering like he claims to be does that? Wouldn't he be more help to them if he were continuing his motivational speaking and living his so called transition respectfully  instead of turning it into a three ring circus?



The trans people I know don't think so. They are happy for another face out there.
I don't think you need to believe him, any of us really. Mostly people are looking at this because we sensationalize transition and trans people, he now she is acting in their own best interest even if it comes down to dollars and cents.

I do think when the media becomes involved it is harder. I have a friend with a family member whose transition became national news fodder, in the end they just couldn't please the massive media presence.
Their choice was one that many may not be able to understand from the outside, I've seen people slam them on news sites, infact I no longer read any article about them period; but knowing how much stress they went through to make the decision I get why they did what they did.



Coach Lover Too said:


> The only thing the ex's have confirmed is the fact that he liked to cross dress. He even admitted that when he married Kris he wasn't as honest with her as he should have been and she had no idea what he was really thinking.
> I don't think any of them (K family) are capable of telling the truth.



Ex 2 say he'd started hormones and one of the boys had asked her why dad had breast. That's not crossdressing.
I don't know how PMK didn't know something was up when her new man came to her bed with breast... Really didn't ring any bells?
Kris, seemingly, has always been willing to ignore things that she doesn't want to deal with.


----------



## Eva1991

I think Kris knew but either she was in denial or thought he was going through a phase or something. It's not easy for people Kris's age (let's keep in mind that she's not young, she was born in the 50's) to wrap their minds around gender issues. That being said, I do think that she stayed in that marriage as long as she could. Bruce was rich and famous after all and she likes both money and fame.


----------



## Glitterandstuds

USA Today just tweeted that Vanity Fair has published the first photo of Caitlyn Jenner


----------



## DC-Cutie

Glitterandstuds said:


> USA Today just tweeted that Vanity Fair has published the first photo of Caitlyn Jenner


 
that's Kaitlyn with a "K", she's now officially the 7th sister


----------



## Sassys

Glitterandstuds said:


> USA Today just tweeted that Vanity Fair has published the first photo of Caitlyn Jenner


 


DC-Cutie said:


> that's Kaitlyn with a "K", she's now officially the 7th sister


----------



## Glitterandstuds




----------



## Ms.parker123

Wow!


-She doesn't look bad, but I am sure a lot of Photoshop was used. I am getting Janice Dickinson with a Cindy Crawford vibe.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

I can't figure out who she looks like but I think she looks good. I see a little Cindy Crawford but maybe it's that way the hair is blown out. I also love that it's spelt with a C lol

Is Kim pissed this came out a day after she announced her pregnancy?


----------



## DC-Cutie

I stand Korrected!!!


She's giving me Fabio on the cover of a romance novel teas with that windblown hair!!!  Get it Bish!!!!


----------



## AshTx.1

Wow.


----------



## bag-mania

Looks amazing for a 65-year-old, male or female. 
Hard to believe that those are the same arms that hurled a shot put in the Olympics.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Oh the shade!  Caitlyn with a C.  SNAP.  
Magazine cover right off the jump! 

Work it!


----------



## .pursefiend.

I see a little bit of Kris in there


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

I actually think based on the cover, she looks good! I mean, better than I could have imagined.


----------



## labelwhore04

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I can't figure out who she looks like but I think she looks good. I see a little Cindy Crawford but maybe it's that way the hair is blown out. I also love that it's spelt with a C lol
> 
> Is Kim pissed this came out a day after she announced her pregnancy?



I thought it was Jessica Lang at first, but Bruce/Caitlyn actually looks better as a women facially.


----------



## Sassys

Wonder what her kids will call her now.


----------



## Sassys

labelwhore04 said:


> *I thought it was Jessica Lang at first*, but Bruce/Caitlyn actually looks better as a women facially.


 

Me too!!!!


----------



## AshTx.1

labelwhore04 said:


> I thought it was Jessica Lang at first, but Bruce/Caitlyn actually looks better as a women facially.



That's exactly what my sister said. She thinks Bruce/Caitlyn looks like Lange too.


----------



## Sassys

Love how she is working the sofa pose


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

She looks amazing!


----------



## sinyard

Wow! She looks beautiful!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Looks a lot better than Kris.

Reminds me a little of Jessica Lange.


----------



## DC-Cutie

.pursefiend. said:


> I see a little bit of Kris in there


 
you being messy!!!!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

After reading the comments, I see I'm not the only one that thought that!


----------



## GaitreeS

I think I just died a little...


----------



## harleyNemma

She looks good & I am happy for her. I think it's time to archive the old thread and start a new one for Caitlyn.


----------



## .pursefiend.

DC-Cutie said:


> you being messy!!!!!


----------



## Sassys

Kim is probably beyond pissed this will overshadow her pregnancy news  :lolots::lolots:

This morning her pregnancy was the big thing on People.com. Now she's been bumped by Caitlyn Jenner.


----------



## Ms.parker123

Sassys said:


> Kim is probably beyond pissed this will overshadow her pregnancy news  :lolots::lolots:




LOL I just thought the same thing! This def is a bigger story.


----------



## Jahpson

Will Kris be managing Ms. Jenner's career or nah?


----------



## aleksandras

She looks great, I hope she finally finds true happiness!


----------



## Hermes4evah

Awwww......she looks great! I thought she would.  Bruce had a pretty face himself. 

Such a courages thing to do.


----------



## .pursefiend.

Jahpson said:


> Will Kris be managing Ms. Jenner's career or nah?



she's gonna get that 10% anyway she can lol


----------



## Sassys

aleksandras said:


> She looks great,* I hope she finally finds true happiness*!


 

Agree 100%


----------



## jclaybo

I wasn't ready


----------



## lanasyogamama

Wow, way better than I expected.


----------



## GaitreeS

jclaybo said:


> I wasn't ready


 
You and me both...


----------



## lala1

She looks amazing!!


----------



## Sassys

Ms.parker123 said:


> LOL I just thought the same thing! This def is a bigger story.


 

Everyone in my office is here talking about Caitlyn. I can hear everyone looking at the video/pics.


----------



## clydekiwi

Im happy for her


----------



## bag-princess

Sassys said:


> *Kim is probably beyond pissed this will overshadow her pregnancy news  *:lolots::lolots:
> 
> This morning her pregnancy was the big thing on People.com. Now she's been bumped by Caitlyn Jenner.





  and you know it!!!


----------



## tweegy

*[emoji126]sashays in*

OMG I just saw it posted online.
I know the pics are on photoshop overload but... She looks good shes giving her eat your heart out Jessica Lange I can't do you better than yourself [emoji106]


----------



## bag-princess

lanasyogamama said:


> wow, way better than i expected.





ita!!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

So with the pending vehicular lawsuit, can Caitlyn say it wasn't me, it was Bruce?
Hey. Someone had to ask it. 

I do think the pictures look nice. *Way* better than I thought they would. 
Maybe I was w...wr...wro...wron.........wrong.


----------



## Bag*Snob

Very brave to have your first magazine cover in lingerie.


----------



## Sassys

Bag*Snob said:


> Very brave to have your first magazine cover in lingerie.


 
I know!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

jclaybo said:


> I wasn't ready



I know. Imagine how the kids must have felt trying to prepare themselves.


----------



## Glitterandstuds

DC-Cutie said:


> I stand Korrected!!!
> 
> 
> She's giving me Fabio on the cover of a romance novel teas with that windblown hair!!!  Get it Bish!!!!



I hate you! I just spit out my tea!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I would LOVE to know what Kris is REALLY thinking.


----------



## NYCBelle

.pursefiend. said:


> I see a little bit of Kris in there


----------



## NYCBelle

jclaybo said:


> I wasn't ready



me either


----------



## Glitterandstuds

jclaybo said:


> I wasn't ready





Ha your comment and your avatar...I'm dying hahahaha


----------



## Sassys

Jahpson said:


> Will Kris be managing Ms. Jenner's career or nah?


 
The fact that it came out the same day Kim announces her pregnancy says "Hell NO", she is not representing her. Kris what not have allowed this.


----------



## jclaybo

Bruce has been patiently waiting to do this, he was always overshadowed on that show and as a member of that family and finally he trumps all news of Kim's pregnancy. He literally single handily is breaking the internet and has cast the most famous Kardashian of them all to the background like an after dinner burp.
Bravo Caitlyn, bravo


----------



## GaitreeS

Bag*Snob said:


> Very brave to have your first magazine cover in lingerie.


 

I would have preferred more clothing...also did he have reassignment surgery? Is this his/her way of saying its gone?


----------



## jclaybo

I literally said that out loud when I saw the pic


----------



## Glitterandstuds

Coach Lover Too said:


> I would LOVE to know what Kris is REALLY thinking.



Probably saying she needs a new face cause Caitlyn look damn better than her


----------



## NYCBelle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OwDp2LMVbg

Well at least we'll know what Kylie will look


----------



## Coach Lover Too

GaitreeS said:


> I would have preferred more clothing...also did he have reassignment surgery? Is this his/her way of saying its gone?


  I wondered that too. Is it gone or is it tucked!?


----------



## clydekiwi

She will probly break the internet. Her followers on twitter are increaing by the second! I never seen anything like it.


----------



## emchhardy

All I can say is good for her.  She looks great and very comfortable.  Hats off Ms. Jenner.


----------



## pursegrl12

I.cant.  It's Monday. I'm tired. I'm confused. I'll check back again tomorrow.


----------



## clydekiwi

Coach Lover Too said:


> I wondered that too. Is it gone or is it tucked!?




It looks tucked.


----------



## NYCBelle

clydekiwi said:


> It looks tucked.



definitely. I would think a lot of recovery time would be needed for a surgery like that


----------



## jclaybo

Slay a little Caitlyn


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Honestly I really expected her to look like the photographer Annie Leibovitz.
Twitter is on fi-ah!  Kris is no longer the Queen. lol


----------



## Sassys

Am I the only one loving how this trumps Kim's announcement and all news tonight will be talking about this first, and not Kim's news.


----------



## pursegrl12

clydekiwi said:


> It looks tucked.




[emoji47]


----------



## oo_let_me_see

I'm sorry, maybe I'm more old-fashion than I thought, but I. Can't. Even. [emoji15] I guess it's because it feels like to me everything surrounding this family is a circus.

I truly hope Bruce/Caitlyn finds peace and joy.


----------



## Coco Belle

She is SO PRETTY UGH!! So so pretty.

QUEEN. Get it Caitlyn-with-a-C.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> Am I the only one loving how this trumps Kim's announcement and all news tonight will be talking about this first, and not Kim's news.



Yes! Even though I was so skeptical and cynical (and still am somewhat), after seeing the pictures I'm over here like YES! haha


----------



## clydekiwi

Coach Lover Too said:


> Honestly I really expected her to look like the photographer Annie Leibovitz.
> Twitter is on fi-ah!  Kris is no longer the Queen. lol




It is!!!! Lmao. Kim pregnancy news is is so yesterdayyy. Im waiting for them to tweet


----------



## .pursefiend.

Coach Lover Too said:


> I would LOVE to know what Kris is REALLY thinking.



"Is that my bustier??"


----------



## clydekiwi

Sassys said:


> Am I the only one loving how this trumps Kim's announcement and all news tonight will be talking about this first, and not Kim's news.




Nope!  I am too. Caitlyn followers on twitter are increasing by the second.  Wheres there tweet. Lol. I do feel for kylie and kendall


----------



## Bag*Snob

Look at the size of the boobies.


----------



## clydekiwi

.pursefiend. said:


> "Is that my bustier??"




[emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## CeeJay

Sassys said:


> Am I the only one loving how this trumps Kim's announcement and all news tonight will be talking about this first, and not Kim's news.



Hel* NO!!!


----------



## Jayne1

If you watch the video, you can see all the makeup and contouring.  Lots of contouring. I don't think she'll look as good in real life. But she does look pretty  here.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

oo_let_me_see said:


> I'm sorry, maybe I'm more old-fashion than I thought, but I. Can't. Even. [emoji15] I guess it's because it feels like to me everything surrounding this family is a circus.
> 
> I truly hope Bruce/Caitlyn finds peace and joy.



I can totally relate to exactly what you're saying. A *big* part of me still questions the reasons behind all of it, but just looking at the pictures, I'll give credit where it's due and I have to admit I'm surprised by how well the pictures turned out.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

clydekiwi said:


> Nope!  I am too. Caitlyn followers on twitter are increasing by the second.  Wheres there tweet. Lol. I do feel for kylie and kendall



Is it Bruce's Twitter or does Caitlyn have a Twitter page?


----------



## Katel

jclaybo said:


> Bruce has been patiently waiting to do this, he was always overshadowed on that show and as a member of that family and finally he trumps all news of Kim's pregnancy. He literally single handily is breaking the internet and has cast the most famous Kardashian of them all to the background *like an after dinner burp.*
> Bravo Caitlyn, bravo


 
+1. YES! 

(lol to the bolded)

She's Beautiful. I wish her all happiness.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn makes Kris look more masculine than ever. I bet Kris hates that sh*t!


----------



## Glitterandstuds

Coach Lover Too said:


> Is it Bruce's Twitter or does Caitlyn have a Twitter page?



Her own page it's brand new


----------



## Coach Lover Too

.pursefiend. said:


> "Is that my bustier??"



hahahhahahaha


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Glitterandstuds said:


> Her own page it's brand new



Thanks. 
On mah way!


----------



## TC1

Jayne1 said:


> If you watch the video, you can see all the makeup and contouring. Lots of contouring. I don't think she'll look as good in real life. But she does look pretty here.


 
None of us would look as good in real life as a Annie Leibovitz photoshoot with a top notch hair and make up team!.


----------



## Bzemom

jclaybo said:


> Slay a little Caitlyn
> 
> 
> View attachment 3016024



She looks stunning.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

I watched the video I'm surprised she didn't change her voice to sound more fem. Maybe saving that for the new show?


----------



## Sassys

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I watched the video I'm surprised she didn't change her voice to sound more fem. Maybe saving that for the new show?


 
That might take time. Not sure how that works. Does anyone know if there are meds for that?


----------



## SpeedyJC

Sassys said:


> That might take time. Not sure how that works. Does anyone know if there are meds for that?


 
I wonder if hormone type drugs will do that? I watched his interview and I will be honest at first I didn't know what to think of all this but after watching the special I think its great that finally after all these years Bruce/ Caitlyn is able to be who they really are.


----------



## krissa

Ms.parker123 said:


> Wow!
> 
> 
> -She doesn't look bad, but I am sure a lot of Photoshop was used. I am getting Janice Dickinson with a Cindy Crawford vibe.



Yes!! I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Coco Belle

A lot of post-menopausal women have lowered voices in any case. Bruce never had a _very_ deep voice, and Caitlyn may just want to naturally find her new voice over time, rather than dramatically alter it all at once.


----------



## jclaybo

Caitlyn also had her tummy tucked


----------



## krissa

jclaybo said:


> Bruce has been patiently waiting to do this, he was always overshadowed on that show and as a member of that family and finally he trumps all news of Kim's pregnancy. He literally single handily is breaking the internet and has cast the most famous Kardashian of them all to the background like an after dinner burp.
> Bravo Caitlyn, bravo



Yup! His roll out has annoyed me, but I love this move lol.


----------



## clydekiwi

Coach Lover Too said:


> Is it Bruce's Twitter or does Caitlyn have a Twitter page?




Caitlyn_jenner. Its bruce. Shes at half a milion and increaing


----------



## ophousewife

Caitlyn looks fierce!  And I definitely think she looks better than Kris.  Love that she spells her name with a C.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I hope some deranged person doesn't try and cause harm. Especially after reading some of the tweets. In my opinion, it's perfectly fine to disagree but that's where the line should be drawn.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

<<<<Would LOVE to be a fly on Kris's wall!


----------



## clydekiwi

I wonder if kris will manage him. Lol


----------



## clydekiwi

Coach Lover Too said:


> <<<<Would LOVE to be a fly on Kris's wall!




Omg [emoji23][emoji23] me 2. She probly wonderin how much money she can make off him


----------



## bisousx

I am happy for Caitlin, and hope she finds peace. She's killin it in that shoot!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Okay.  Let me be honest.  I saw the VF cover in my news feed and read the cover title.  I thought we were being introduced to a never known Jenner daughter.  I am not kidding.  I truly do think Caitlyn could do a better job with Kim's makeup and style!


----------



## Glitterandstuds

Coach Lover Too said:


> <<<<Would LOVE to be a fly on Kris's wall!




Forget Kris, I bet Kim is on the floor in the corner crying that Caitlyn took her limelight


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Sassys said:


> That might take time. Not sure how that works. Does anyone know if there are meds for that?



I know there are meds that make women have a deeper voice but not sure if there are meds for men that alter their voice. I thought it might be a mix of both medicine and the person's own doing


----------



## CoachGirl12




----------



## labelwhore04

Wouldn't hormone treatment just naturally change the voice over time or no?


----------



## maddie66

I'm embarrassed to say that I watched KUWTK last night and in the same "coming soon" clips after the show where Kim said she was pregnant, she also said she had met "her" (didn't divulge Bruce's new name) and that she was beautiful.  I think they timed it this way on purpose so that there is a huge buzz about the family in general.


----------



## Katel

lolz


----------



## zippie

SO disturbing, sorry but I just can't.


----------



## Coach Lover Too




----------



## tweegy

Katel said:


> lolz




[emoji102] is the lady in red seriously Caitlyn??!

I bow my hat to ms Jenner ...


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Yeah is that her in the red from the Vanity Fair shoot? Cuz damn! Looks good! I know there's tons of makeup and photoshop and all that, but still.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

zippie said:


> SO disturbing, sorry but I just can't.




It's aLOT to take in isn't it?!?


----------



## Sassys

maddie66 said:


> I'm embarrassed to say that I watched KUWTK last night and in the same "coming soon" clips after the show where Kim said she was pregnant, she also said she had met "her" (didn't divulge Bruce's new name) and that she was beautiful.  I think they timed it this way on purpose so that there is a huge buzz about the family in general.


 
They didn't know about the Diane Sawyer interview until he told them, so my gut tells me, they didn't know this was coming out today. You damn well better believe Kim would have announced her pregnancy sooner, if she knew this was coming out today.

Bruce learned from the BEST at pulling a fast one.


----------



## Sassys

You guys should hear the men in my office talking around the printers.


----------



## pixiejenna

Sassys said:


> Am I the only one loving how this trumps Kim's announcement and all news tonight will be talking about this first, and not Kim's news.



Nope i think we are all loving it just as much as you!






clydekiwi said:


> Omg [emoji23][emoji23] me 2. She probly wonderin how much money she can make off him



No more likely she's hiding  under the covers with a drink in hand, crying over a loss of potential income. PMK doesn't have Caitlyn under her control, if she did she would not have allowed this cover to come out at the same time as Kimbos pregnancy announcement. She would have made her wait so her prize pony can have her moment uninterrupted. Caitlyn is in charge of Caitlyn.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

S
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 slayed!!


----------



## DesigningStyle

There is something about this quote from Jenner:  "Caitlin doesn't have any secrets. Soon as the Vanity Fair cover comes out, I'm free." that makes me not know what to think.  I need someone to analyze it and tell me what is going on with him.  I just feel it is a telling statement.


----------



## clydekiwi

Kim finally tweeted


----------



## .pursefiend.

Coach Lover Too said:


>


----------



## bag-princess

slayin' them!!!


----------



## gillianna

Even as a fame ho who is going to milk this for all the money she can get I feel Caitlyn is finally free and in charge of her own life which must be the sweetest revenge of having PMK call all the shots.  Even when Bruce went along with PMK and the circus with no complaints to break free of that life of fake and lies to start her own journey perhaps might help others learn to accept those who do the same.  While she is still doing it for as much money as she can get perhaps there will be some honesty in the journey and not the calculated PR spin.
Caitlyn makes Kris look like a old lady desperate to look young.


----------



## sdkitty

zippie said:


> SO disturbing, sorry but I just can't.


have to admit I'm finding it more than a little strange too.  but her kids are grown and she's not hurting anyone so.....

not sure how much all the publicity has to do with helping transgender people....seems maybe more self-serving to me


----------



## tweegy

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3016047
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slayed!!




[emoji52] she looks like my old english teacher from back in the day..

Yes, she brought a lot of glam to class...I'm not even kidding.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Glitterandstuds said:


> View attachment 3015992




Did she have to wear that outfit on the cover? Something demure but elegant would  have been so much better. This is like the stereotype of a transsexual should dress when she's transitioning to a woman.


----------



## Jikena

She is beautiful ! Honestly I was a little scared that she wouldn't look very good (because of her age). But she does. There might be a lot of photoshop though but whatever. And I love the pictures. I also love the name Caitlyn, she chose right.  Hope that she finally finds happiness.


----------



## dangerouscurves

gillianna said:


> Even as a fame ho who is going to milk this for all the money she can get I feel Caitlyn is finally free and in charge of her own life which must be the sweetest revenge of having PMK call all the shots.  Even when Bruce went along with PMK and the circus with no complaints to break free of that life of fake and lies to start her own journey perhaps might help others learn to accept those who do the same.  While she is still doing it for as much money as she can get perhaps there will be some honesty in the journey and not the calculated PR spin.
> Caitlyn makes Kris look like a old lady desperate to look young.




Agree. Caitlyn looks better than Kris.


----------



## Wubbles

There has to be steam pouring out of Kris's ears today!! Caitlyn is gorg and definitely stealing the spotlight.


----------



## labelwhore04

Katel said:


> lolz



Omg i thought this was Beyonce's mom at first. 

Caitlyn looks so glamorous i just can't. I'm surprisingly impressed with how good she looks.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Now that Bruce has changed her name to Caitlyn, does that mean she's not in contact to keep the secrets of the Kardashians and Kris Jenner anymore?


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Caitlyn does look great. I'm so happy she's finally living her life for her, with complete freedom to be herself and honest to who she is. Just sad that she was under PMK's iron hand for 20 some years. But good she broke free! Go, Caitlyn!


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

dangerouscurves said:


> Now that Bruce has changed her name to Caitlyn, does that mean she's not in contact to keep the secrets of the Kardashians and Kris Jenner anymore?



Hopefully 

Waiting for Caitlyn's tell-all!


----------



## Queenpixie

Caitlyn is basically

Jessica Lange
Lana Del rey
Cindy crawford
Queen Letizia of Spain


----------



## dangerouscurves

labelwhore04 said:


> Wouldn't hormone treatment just naturally change the voice over time or no?




Nope, it won't change the voice but the transsexuals go to voice coaching or something.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Babydoll Chanel said:


> Hopefully
> 
> Waiting for Caitlyn's tell-all!




That'd be the book from this family that I'd read.


----------



## Sassys

pixiejenna said:


> No more likely she's hiding  under the covers with a drink in hand, crying over a loss of potential income. PMK doesn't have Caitlyn under her control, if she did she would not have allowed this cover to come out at the same time as Kimbos pregnancy announcement. She would have made her wait so her prize pony can have her moment uninterrupted. Caitlyn is in charge of Caitlyn.


 
Kim specifically told Bruce he could not use their make-up team, so that tells you she does not want to be outshined


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

dangerouscurves said:


> That'd be the book from this family that I'd read.



Me too!


----------



## dangerouscurves

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I know there are meds that make women have a deeper voice but not sure if there are meds for men that alter their voice. I thought it might be a mix of both medicine and the person's own doing




It doesn't work the other way around because men are basically a mutation of women, so to speak.


----------



## JessLovesTim

I have to say I scrolled through the vanity fair cover pic several times this AM on my Instagram and didn't stop to read the comments- I had no idea it was Bruce until I started reading this thread. I honestly thought they were just pictures of an older model. I hope she finds a lot of happiness. However I have to admit I love the pic of now Caitlyn in red!


----------



## JessLovesTim

Her boobs are so much better than mine[emoji30]


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

*I Didn't Spell it with a 'K' For Good Reason*
EXCLUSIVE
Caitlyn Jenner did not spell her first name with a "K" because she wants a clean break from the Kardashian moniker ... TMZ has learned.  
Sources closely associated with Bruce tell us Caitlyn wants to make it clear to her family and the world ... she is her own person. That sounds obvious, but we're told it was an extremely meaningful choice for her ... she has never been her own person before, and becoming part of the Kardashian brood would undermine her goal.
Our sources say it's not that there's bad blood between Caitlyn and the Kardashians ... it's all about self-identity. 

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3bpwy7l7c


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

*I Needed to Shock People With Vanity Fair Cover*

EXCLUSIVE
Caitlyn Jenner did not want the world to see a demure version of herself ... she chose a sexy photo because once the shock wears off, people will be more accepting. 
Sources closely associated with Caitlyn tell TMZ, she gave a lot of thought to her first public image. She felt if she posed in something modest, like a dress, people would not be satisfied and the mystery would prevent her from leading any kind of a normal life. 
We're told Caitlyn chose an extremely sexy, revealing outfit because now that the public's curiosity is satisfied, it will not be a shock when she goes out in normal streetwear.
And our sources say Caitlyn plans to publicly circulate now that her true self is revealed. She was hiding for a long time until this moment, but now the decks are cleared.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3bpxLCLxu


----------



## GaitreeS

Kitties Are Cute said:


> *I Needed to Shock People With Vanity Fair Cover*
> 
> EXCLUSIVE
> Caitlyn Jenner did not want the world to see a demure version of herself ... she chose a sexy photo because once the shock wears off, people will be more accepting.
> Sources closely associated with Caitlyn tell TMZ, she gave a lot of thought to her first public image. She felt if she posed in something modest, like a dress, people would not be satisfied and the mystery would prevent her from leading any kind of a normal life.
> We're told Caitlyn chose an extremely sexy, revealing outfit because now that the public's curiosity is satisfied, it will not be a shock when she goes out in normal streetwear.
> And our sources say Caitlyn plans to publicly circulate now that her true self is revealed. She was hiding for a long time until this moment, but now the decks are cleared.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3bpxLCLxu[/QUOTE]
> 
> Well I for one am shocked


----------



## Eva1991

Caitlyn looks very beautiful and I'm glad she decided to spell her new name with a C instead of a K. She looks definitely a lot better than Kris!


----------



## Sassys

Kitties Are Cute said:


> *I Needed to Shock People With Vanity Fair Cover*
> 
> EXCLUSIVE
> Caitlyn Jenner did not want the world to see a demure version of herself ... she chose a sexy photo because once the shock wears off, people will be more accepting.
> Sources closely associated with Caitlyn tell TMZ, she gave a lot of thought to her first public image. She felt if she posed in something modest, like a dress, people would not be satisfied and the mystery would prevent her from leading any kind of a normal life.
> We're told Caitlyn chose an extremely sexy, revealing outfit because now that the public's curiosity is satisfied, it will not be a shock when she goes out in normal streetwear.
> And our sources say Caitlyn plans to publicly circulate now that her true self is revealed. She was hiding for a long time until this moment, but now the decks are cleared.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3bpxLCLxu[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> Very calculating. Kris taught her well. Bravo


----------



## MJDaisy

Go Caitlyn. Such a moment! Also a pivotal moment in history. I think she looks fab.


----------



## Sassys

Kitties Are Cute said:


> *I Didn't Spell it with a 'K' For Good Reason*
> EXCLUSIVE
> Caitlyn Jenner did not spell her first name with a "K" because she wants a clean break from the Kardashian moniker ... TMZ has learned.
> Sources closely associated with Bruce tell us Caitlyn wants to make it clear to her family and the world ... she is her own person. That sounds obvious, but we're told it was an extremely meaningful choice for her ... she has never been her own person before, and becoming part of the Kardashian brood would undermine her goal.
> Our sources say it's not that there's bad blood between Caitlyn and the Kardashians ... it's all about self-identity.
> 
> Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3bpwy7l7c


 
I really wish she didn't pick a name that could be spelled with a K.

Curious as to why this particular name. Guess I will have to read the article.


----------



## Eva1991

DesigningStyle said:


> There is something about this quote from Jenner:  "Caitlin doesn't have any secrets. Soon as the Vanity Fair cover comes out, I'm free." that makes me not know what to think.  I need someone to analyze it and tell me what is going on with him.  I just feel it is a telling statement.



I think she means that she's now free to live as her true self. Before telling the world who she really was, Caitlyn (Bruce) was living a lie, pretending to be someome she was not.


----------



## labelwhore04

Queenpixie said:


> Caitlyn is basically
> 
> Jessica Lange
> Lana Del rey
> Cindy crawford
> Queen Letizia of Spain



Omg, just looked up Queen Letizia....they are TWINS. I'm scared


----------



## harleyNemma

Katel said:


> lolz




This is my favorite picture from the VF piece. I laughed out loud when I read the photo caption. 

Caitlyn is looking stunning & doing so while posing in the car given to her by PMK. Caitlyn is the Queen of Shade!


----------



## DC-Cutie

somewhere Kris Jenner is sitting on a cliff, drinking a 5th of Mad Dog 20/20.....  and Kim is right next to her whining "how could Bruce...  I mean Caitlyn do this?  I just told the world I was pregnant!!!"


----------



## .pursefiend.

DC-Cutie said:


> somewhere Kris Jenner is sitting on a cliff, drinking a 5th of *Mad Dog 20/20*.....  and Kim is right next to her whining "how could Bruce...  I mean Caitlyn do this?  I just told the world I was pregnant!!!"



you know your day is rough when you drink that


----------



## DivineMissM

Sassys said:


> I really wish she didn't pick a name that could be spelled with a K.
> 
> Curious as to why this particular name. Guess I will have to read the article.



I am too.  It's such a "young" name.  Especially with that spelling.  


She looks like Janice Dickenson.


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> somewhere Kris Jenner is sitting on a cliff, drinking a 5th of Mad Dog 20/20.....  and Kim is right next to her whining "how could Bruce...  I mean Caitlyn do this?  I just told the world I was pregnant!!!"


----------



## DC-Cutie

.pursefiend. said:


> you know your day is rough when you drink that


 
her year has been craptastic!  I'm sure she started off with Boone's Farm..  then when it really got bad, she just drove over to Crenshaw and picked up that Dog!  LOL


----------



## gillianna

she dresses better than all of them put together.  I think their spotlight has been stolen for many weeks to come.  Magazine covers will not be featuring the K Klan in the near future when the paps will have someone better to follow.


----------



## .pursefiend.

DC-Cutie said:


> her year has been craptastic!  I'm sure she started off with Boone's Farm..  then when it really got bad, she just drove over to Crenshaw and picked up that Dog!  LOL



Tonight's night kap gonna be 211 steel reserve


----------



## Sassys

gillianna said:


> she dresses better than all of them put together.  I think their spotlight has been stolen for many weeks to come.  Magazine covers will not be featuring the K Klan in the near future when the paps will have someone better to follow.


 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bishes have been dethroned by a new Queen, who was right under our noses the entire time 

Underdog wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## aliceinwl

Caitlyn Jenner looks amazing! Be free, be happy!


----------



## Antonia

*I agree that Caitlyn is a 'younger name', Catherine would have been a better choice IMO.  She does look amazing, much better than I had expected.  I can't wait to buy the magazine....if it's not sold out before I get my hands on one!*


----------



## DC-Cutie

.pursefiend. said:


> Tonight's night kap gonna be 211 steel reserve


 
Ha!!!!  Got 'em....  Got 'em!!!


----------



## LavenderIce

Wow!  Go Caitlyn!  The shade.  The spotlight.  Show 'em who's boss!


----------



## ByeKitty

Wow I like the shoot!! She looks great! Very excited for her. I like the shade of "Caitlyn" with a K  One thing irks me though - why did they have to show so much skin on the cover picture? Just seems unnecessary.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Okay,  Who can share screen shots from the Vanity Fair issue?

I see VF says "To get special early access to the revealing story and stunning photographs now before the issue hits newsstands on June 9, subscribe to Vanity Fair&#8217;s digital edition on the iPhone or iPad."


----------



## Sassys

ByeKitty said:


> Wow I like the shoot!! She looks great! Very excited for her. I like the shade of "Caitlyn" with a K  One thing irks me though - *why did they have to show so much skin on the cover picture? Just seems unnecessary*.


 
Gets everyone talking and now ALL eyes are on her. Even the men in my office are talking. It's brilliant!!


----------



## Sassys

DesigningStyle said:


> Okay,  Who can share screen shots from the Vanity Fair issue?
> 
> I see VF says "To get special early access to the revealing story and stunning photographs now before the issue hits newsstands on June 9, subscribe to Vanity Fair&#8217;s digital edition on the iPhone or iPad."


 

I have a subscription, but left my ipad at home and won't be home until late tonight. I am sure they will be on the internet, if not there already


----------



## ByeKitty

Sassys said:


> Gets everyone talking and now ALL eyes are on her. Even the men in my office are talking. It's brilliant!!



I guess, but even if she didn't wear lingerie on the cover everyone would be talking about the reveal of Caitlyn Jenner.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> Kim is probably beyond pissed this will overshadow her pregnancy news  :lolots::lolots:
> 
> This morning her pregnancy was the big thing on People.com. Now she's been bumped by Caitlyn Jenner.



Is it wrong this makes me so happy!


----------



## Sassys

ByeKitty said:


> I guess, but even if she didn't wear lingerie on the cover everyone would be talking about the reveal of Caitlyn Jenner.


 
But this really makes you


----------



## ByeKitty

chowlover2 said:


> Is it wrong this makes me so happy!



Me too!! Just goes to show that PMK had no part in this.


----------



## lh211

chowlover2 said:


> Is it wrong this makes me so happy!



If it does, then we're both wrong


----------



## Abelle

I don't get it. His DNA will always be male and he'll never truly be a woman. (Serious question here) Do transgender people feel fulfilled just by dressing like the gender of their choice?


----------



## dangerouscurves

Abelle said:


> I don't get it. His DNA will always be male and he'll never truly be a woman. (Serious question here) Do transgender people feel fulfilled just by dressing like the gender of their choice?




Yes. I guess. But we'll never be in their shoes so we can't really know.


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> Is it wrong this makes me so happy!


 

Nope.  Bruce wasmiserable for so long. Thanks to his greedy/lying wife and step daughters; he now has a sh$t load of money to finally get what he has waited years to have. I am truly happy for Caitlyn. She put up with Kris and the lies within for so long and I am sure never wanted to be on a reality show, but thanks to no pre-nup, she gets half of what Kris built and gets to ride off in the sunset. I can only imagine what it was like being married to her when they became famous. You know he wanted this secret out years ago, and she was NOT going to let him destroy her new empire. So he played along, the empire grew and now he can have his cake and eat it too. Bravo!


----------



## Sassys

Abelle said:


> I don't get it. His DNA will always be male and he'll never truly be a woman. (Serious question here) Do transgender people feel fulfilled just by dressing like the gender of their choice?


 
Why would anyone care what their DNA is?? 

Transgender people are not just "dressing up" as the gender of their choice. They are living their lives as the gender they were meant to be.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Abelle said:


> I don't get it. His DNA will always be male and he'll never truly be a woman. (Serious question here) Do transgender people feel fulfilled just by dressing like the gender of their choice?


 
I think they do, otherwise they wouldn't go through it all.


----------



## jun3machina

Transgendered people can go through hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery as well.


----------



## Abelle

Sassys said:


> Why would anyone care what there DNA is??
> 
> Transgender people are not just "dressing up" as the gender of their choice. They are living their lives as the gender they were meant to be.



I still don't understand, and maybe someone who is transgender can answer. 
If I always felt in my soul that I should've been African American or Asian (no offense to anyone, just an example) and I started living my life that way, knowing that I'm never truly going to be either, is that ever going to be enough?


----------



## Coco Belle

Abelle said:


> I don't get it. His DNA will always be male and he'll never truly be a woman. (Serious question here) Do transgender people feel fulfilled just by dressing like the gender of their choice?


 
There are women who are genetically XY ("male") who don't even know they are XY and just go about their daily lives as women. What your genes say does not determine your gender.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_female_syndrome

There are many permutations of these chromosomes, btw. XXX, XXY, XYY. People don't even know because they assume that you can only be XX or XY. It's actually not that simple at all.

I can't speak for trans* people as a whole, but generally, it's not "dressing like the gender of their choice". It's "living day to day in the gender that their brain has been screaming at them to live in for their entire lives". It's not a _choice_, per se, like one might choose to wear a hat or not that day. It's them living out the only liveable identity they have in life.


----------



## Sassys

Abelle said:


> I still don't understand, and maybe someone who is transgender can answer.
> *If I always felt in my soul that I should've been African American or Asian (no offense to anyone, just an example) and I started living my life that way, knowing that I'm never truly going to be either, is that ever going to be enough?*


 
:weird:
I am so not understanding this question?


Whether you are a black woman, white woman, Asian woman orLatino woman you are still a woman. A black woman, does/acts just like any other woman. What exactly would an Asian woman do differently from a Latino woman, that would make one feel like their soul should be Latino??

Again, I am not understanding your question.


----------



## Livia1

Abelle said:


> I still don't understand, and maybe someone who is transgender can answer.
> If I always felt in my soul that I* should've been* African American or Asian (no offense to anyone, just an example) and I started living my life that way, knowing that I'm never truly going to be either, is that ever going to be enough?




This is where I think you do not understand ... I think transgender people feel they _are _...


----------



## sdkitty

Sassys said:


> I really wish she didn't pick a name that could be spelled with a K.
> 
> Curious as to why this particular name. Guess I will have to read the article.


I was thinking that too.....why not pick a name that starts with D or B or any other letter that couldn't start with K?


----------



## krissa

Sassys said:


> Am I the only one loving how this trumps Kim's announcement and all news tonight will be talking about this first, and not Kim's news.



Nope! I love the timing and Caitlyn with a C!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Abelle said:


> I still don't understand, and maybe someone who is transgender can answer.
> If I always felt in my soul that I should've been African American or Asian (no offense to anyone, just an example) and I started living my life that way, knowing that I'm never truly going to be either, is that ever going to be enough?



And if it isn't enough, it is not unheard of for the transgendered person to go back to their original sex. Imagine how crazy it would be if Jenner changes his mind later.  

Take Chelsea Attonley as an example:  "Back in 2007, Chelsea Attonley, then living as Matthew, met glamor model Katie Price and expressed a desire to be a woman and look like her. Price encouraged Matthew to do it, so not long after, she underwent gender reassignment surgery. That operation cost the NHS the equivalent of over $16,000 U.S. dollars.

Now, Attonley has decided that she no longer wants to be a woman and is asking the NHS for the nearly $23,000 to reverse her reassignment surgery.

&#8220;I have always longed to be a woman, but no amount of surgery can give me an actual female body and I feel like I am living a lie,&#8221; said Attonley. &#8220;It is exhausting putting on make-up and wearing heels all the time. Even then I don&#8217;t feel I look like a proper woman. I suffered from depression and anxiety as a result of the hormones too. I have realized it would be easier to stop fighting the way I look naturally and accept that I was born a man physically.&#8221;  from alan.com

Also, ABC News editor Don Ennis did the same thing.  Male...female...and back to Male.


----------



## Abelle

Sassys said:


> :weird:
> I am so not understanding this question?
> 
> 
> Whether you are a black woman, white woman, Asian woman orLatino woman you are still a woman. A black woman, does/acts just like any other woman. What exactly would an Asian woman do differently from a Latino woman, that would make one feel like their soul should be Latino??



Bruce has never been a woman, so how can he know that he was meant to be one and even if he dresses up like a woman hes still just a man imitating a woman. I only used other races as an example to say that I wasn't born Asian, how can I feel in my soul that I was meant to be Asian.


----------



## Coco Belle

Abelle said:


> Bruce has never been a woman, so how can he know that he was meant to be one and even if he dresses up like a woman hes still just a man imitating a woman. I only used other races as an example to say that I wasn't born Asian person, how can I feel in my soul that I was meant to be Asian.


 
Hon, if you don't understand, then count yourself lucky. Trans people kill themselves over people telling them they will "never be a real man/woman". 

You don't know what trans people go through; good for you. It's not your job to agree or give your approval, it's your job to accept that you are not in someone else's shoes and it's not your place to judge.

If you're really interested in issues of gender identity, there are classes you can take at almost any university that will educate you about ALLLLL the stupid things we assume about gender, and how they're usually false and based on stuff like superstition/religion/old Stone Age taboos.


----------



## bag-princess

Coco Belle said:


> Hon, if you don't understand, then count yourself lucky. Trans people kill themselves over people telling them they will "never be a real man/woman".
> 
> You don't know what trans people go through; good for you. It's not your job to agree or give your approval, it's your job to accept that you are not in someone else's shoes and it's not your place to judge.
> 
> If you're really interested in issues of gender identity, there are classes you can take at almost any university that will educate you about ALLLLL the stupid things we assume about gender, and how they're usually false and based on stuff like superstition/religion/old Stone Age taboos.






well said


----------



## littlerock

Coco Belle said:


> Hon, if you don't understand, then count yourself lucky. Trans people kill themselves over people telling them they will "never be a real man/woman".
> 
> You don't know what trans people go through; good for you. It's not your job to agree or give your approval, it's your job to accept that you are not in someone else's shoes and it's not your place to judge.
> 
> If you're really interested in issues of gender identity, there are classes you can take at almost any university that will educate you about ALLLLL the stupid things we assume about gender, and how they're usually false and based on stuff like superstition/religion/old Stone Age taboos.



 Thanks CB!

Let's just move along and keep discussing how freaking fab she looks!!


----------



## Livia1

littlerock said:


> Thanks CB!
> 
> *Let's just move along and keep discussing how freaking fab she looks!!*




She does look fab


----------



## Coco Belle

littlerock said:


> Let's just move along and keep discussing how freaking fab she looks!!


 
Agreed!
I need to know who her surgeon/corsetier is cos I NEED those bewbs in my life.


----------



## tweegy

littlerock said:


> Thanks CB!
> 
> Let's just move along and keep discussing how freaking fab she looks!!




I still can't get over her in the red dress in the car.... Gotta hand it to her she looks stunning


----------



## gracekelly

I would have liked a picture that was not so retouched.  I think Caitlyn should show her "real" image.   She is doing herself a disservice because pix from the paps will not look this good and the caustic remarks will really fly.


----------



## Sassys

gracekelly said:


> I would have liked a picture that was not so retouched.  I think Caitlyn should show her "real" image.   She is doing herself a disservice because pix from the paps will not look this good and the caustic remarks will really fly.


 
Natural born women don't show their "real self" on a magazine cover.


----------



## gracekelly

Sassys said:


> Natural born women don't show their "real self" on a magazine cover.



That can be true, and they get the same remarks, but why start with people having  such high expectations?  Plus, you know that people will be hypercritical of her.


----------



## Jayne1

gracekelly said:


> I would have liked a picture that was not so retouched.  I think Caitlyn should show her "real" image.   She is doing herself a disservice because pix from the paps will not look this good and the caustic remarks will really fly.


It will be interesting to see what she really looks like in pap photos.  I suspect she will always use a lot of makeup, it seems she has always loved the stuff, as well as other girly things.


----------



## Jayne1

gracekelly said:


> That can be true, and they get the same remarks, but why start with people having  such high expectations?  Plus, you know that people will be hypercritical of her.


Good point! To start with the artificial, in terms of filters, soft lighting and contouring galore, it might be a contrast, when we see her in real life.  Now I'm curious.


----------



## gracekelly

Jayne1 said:


> It will be interesting to see what she really looks like in pap photos.  I suspect she will always use a lot of makeup, it seems she has always loved the stuff, as well as other girly things.




I am sure she was paying attention whilst living with the K girls.  She will have a make-up artist on call and/or learn about using airbrush makeup


----------



## Yoshi1296

She looks stunning!! God bless Caitlyn and I wish her much success and happiness!!


----------



## Abelle

Coco Belle said:


> Hon, if you don't understand, then count yourself lucky. Trans people kill themselves over people telling them they will "never be a real man/woman".
> 
> You don't know what trans people go through; good for you. It's not your job to agree or give your approval, it's your job to accept that you are not in someone else's shoes and it's not your place to judge.
> 
> If you're really interested in issues of gender identity, there are classes you can take at almost any university that will educate you about ALLLLL the stupid things we assume about gender, and how they're usually false and based on stuff like superstition/religion/old Stone Age taboos.




Who said anything about approval? Its a simple fact that he'll always be a man dressing as a woman. 
 If you don't like my questions, you don't have to respond to them


----------



## usmcwifey

This isn't exactly my cup of tea but I must say she does look good and happy...Bruce was so out of the loop as a father and now that she's found herself maybe she'll become an amazing parent [emoji173]&#65039;


----------



## guccimamma

best magazine cover of all of them, by far.

still having trouble with the name, but god bless her.


----------



## stacyredbird

> Nope. Bruce wasmiserable for so long. Thanks to his greedy/lying wife and step daughters; he now hasa sh$t load of money to finally get what he has waited years to have. I amtruly happy for Caitlyn. She put up with Kris and the lies within for so longand I am sure never wanted to be on a reality show, but thanks to no pre-nup,he gets half of what Kris built and gets to ride off in the sunset. I can onlyimagine what it was like being married to her when they became famous. You knowhe wanted this secret out years ago, and she was NOT going to let him destroyher new empire. So he played along, the empire grew and now he can have hiscake and eat it too. Bravo!



No one made him marry her and have two more kids.   He is responsible for the choices he made.  When he had a break between wives he should of followed through with it then or just remained single, instead of marrying yet again.   I don't think it is fair to blame any of his wives or children.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Wow!!!!! Welcome Caitlyn and dang girl, you look GOOOOOOOD!! Showing those K girls how to bring it.

Brava!


----------



## Carson123

Abelle said:


> Who said anything about approval? Its a simple fact that he'll always be a man dressing as a woman.
> 
> If you don't like my questions, you don't have to respond to them




Why don't you just google it instead of asking on a forum? 

It's really not the place you're going to get answers/explanations you're looking for. Spend 10 mins on google and you should be good.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Fabulous cover! 

And already Caitlyn is receiving the Authur Ashe award for courage at the Espys and apparently all her children and stepchildren will be on stage with her.


----------



## guccimamma

Encore Hermes said:


> Fabulous cover!
> 
> And already Caitlyn is receiving the Authur Ashe award for courage at the Espys and apparently all her children and stepchildren will be on stage with her.



rob?


----------



## Sassys

Abelle said:


> Who said anything about approval? *Its a simple fact that he'll always be a man dressing as a woman*.
> If you don't like my questions, you don't have to respond to them


 



People who are transgendered are already experiencing so much hate/negativity. Please don&#8217;t be disrespectful; as some might even visit this thread and are feeling better about themselves knowing that so many of us are applauding Caitlyn.


----------



## Sassys

Encore Hermes said:


> Fabulous cover!
> 
> And already Caitlyn is receiving the Authur Ashe award for courage at the Espys and apparently* all her children and stepchildren will be on stage with her*.


 

SMH, why can't she just have her moment alone.


----------



## Sasha2012

Not sure if these were posted.

via tumblr


----------



## beekmanhill

Carson123 said:


> Why don't you just google it instead of asking on a forum?
> 
> It's really not the place you're going to get answers/explanations you're looking for. Spend 10 mins on google and you should be good.



This poster has been answered in a cursory and patronizing manner twice.  Not necessary or kind.


----------



## Eva1991

Abelle said:


> Bruce has never been a woman, so how can he know that he was meant to be one and even if he dresses up like a woman hes still just a man imitating a woman. I only used other races as an example to say that I wasn't born Asian, how can I feel in my soul that I was meant to be Asian.



Bruce has never been a woman _to the outside world_. Deep inside, he always was a woman, felt like a woman, thought like a woman etc. I think that this answers your question.


----------



## oo_let_me_see

Curiosity and honest questions aren't a bad thing, right? That's how you learn.


----------



## oo_let_me_see

I know I'm definitely uneducated on the subject and have learned a lot in this thread alone.


----------



## bisousx

Sassys said:


> Nope.  Bruce wasmiserable for so long. Thanks to his greedy/lying wife and step daughters; he now hasa sh$t load of money to finally get what he has waited years to have. I amtruly happy for Caitlyn. She put up with Kris and the lies within for so longand I am sure never wanted to be on a reality show, but thanks to no pre-nup,he gets half of what Kris built and gets to ride off in the sunset. I can onlyimagine what it was like being married to her when they became famous. You knowhe wanted this secret out years ago, and she was NOT going to let him destroyher new empire. So he played along, the empire grew and now he can have hiscake and eat it too. Bravo!



This just about sums up why I am genuinely so happy for Caitlyn. And of course, having waited SO LONG to have the courage to be true to herself. I bet Caitlyn's on cloud 9 today.


----------



## Encore Hermes

guccimamma said:


> rob?



[del]...... probably?[/del] Of Course! But he will be standing in the back, behind Scott and Lamar


----------



## Livia1

Encore Hermes said:


>




OMG, what the h... is that?!


----------



## Sassys

After making her world debut, Caitlyn Jenner is sharing intimate details about her transition, her family and her glamorous _Vanity Fair_ cover shoot.  

 The reality star and Olympian formerly known as Bruce Jenner revealed her new name and look Monday, and she's already a social media superstar.  

 But it's been a long road for the 65-year-old.  

 " 'I don't want to be this way' was the bottom line. Who would want to be dealing with all these issues," she tells _Vanity Fair_. "I look at men and say, 'Oh my God, would it not be so wonderful to be comfortable in your own skin, male or female, so when you wake up in the morning you get dressed and go to work and this identity issue is not even present?'  


_*"You're happy being who you are. You have a beautiful wife and this and that. ... I look at women and think the exact same thing: 'Wouldn't it be wonderful to wake up in the morning and be able to get dressed and go out and live your life?' " *_

_* She will begin living her public life July 15, when she'll accept the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at ESPN's ESPYs in Los Angeles. All 10 of her Kardashian and Jenner children will be by her side, according to Vanity Fair. *_

_*Below, hear about Jenner's journey in her own words to the magazine:  *_


*On Her Surgeries*

&#8226; Jenner, who has taken hormones and undergone operations on her face and breasts, has not had surgery on her genitals. She second-guessed her facial-feminization surgery after a painful, 10-hour surgery and suffered a panic attack &#8211; but overcame it with the help of a counselor: "If I was lying on my deathbed and I had kept this secret and never ever did anything about it, I would be lying there saying, 'You just blew your entire life. You never dealt with yourself,' and I don't want that to happen."  


*On the Photo Shoot*

&#8226; After posing for her last portrait, Jenner began to cry, touching her Olympic gold medal: "That was a good. But the last couple of days were better.&#8221; 


*On Her Children*

&#8226; "I have made a lot of mistakes raising the four Jenner kids. I had times not only dealing with my own issues but exes. [It was] very traumatic and there was a lot of turmoil in my life, and I wasn't as close to my kids as I should have been."  

&#8226; Jenner at first felt "terribly disappointed and terribly hurt" that her four older kids refuse to be a part of the show but has come to terms with it: "I think it's better for the show right now. It keeps me on point and doesn't distract with all the family issues."  


*On Her Docu-series*

&#8226; "I'm not doing it for money. I'm doing it to help my soul and help other people. If I can make a dollar, I certainly am not stupid. [I have] house payments and all that kind of stuff. I will never make an excuse for something like that. Yeah, this is a business. You don't go out and change your gender for a television show. Okay, it ain't happening. I don't care who you are. It ain't happening, okay? You don't do it." 

people.com


----------



## Jayne1

usmcwifey said:


> This isn't exactly my cup of tea but I must say she does look good and happy...Bruce was so out of the loop as a father and now that she's found herself *maybe she'll become an amazing parent *[emoji173]&#65039;


Too late now, for that.


----------



## prettyprincess

beekmanhill said:


> this poster has been answered in a cursory and patronizing manner twice.  Not necessary or kind.



+1


----------



## Carson123

beekmanhill said:


> This poster has been answered in a cursory and patronizing manner twice.  Not necessary or kind.




I'm unclear on what you're referring to? My comment isn't necessary or kind? Sorry but I wasn't going to through all the posts on this forum. Just told her to google it as that's where she'll most likely get her answers on transgendered people.  Not sure why that is an unkind statement. [emoji52]


----------



## karylicious

She is seriously beautiful. Happy for her


----------



## usmcwifey

Jayne1 said:


> Too late now, for that.




Ain't that the truth ...


----------



## gracekelly

Jayne1 said:


> Too late now, for that.



Jenner is not the only parent who has been so wrapped up in themselves that they miss out on their children.  Gender has nothing to do with it.  It is just self absorption.    I don't see where that is going to change just based on age alone.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Wow... She looks great!!!


----------



## Encore Hermes

>  "I have made a lot of mistakes *raising the four Jenner kids. *I had times not only dealing with my own issues but exes. [It was] very traumatic and there was a lot of turmoil in my life, and I wasn't as close to my kids as I should have been



I wonder if the word older was accidentally ommited in front of "Jenner kids ", since he has 6 Jenner kids or if he feels he didn't make mistakes with the younger 2


----------



## bisousx

Carson123 said:


> I'm unclear on what you're referring to? My comment isn't necessary or kind? Sorry but I wasn't going to through all the posts on this forum. Just told her to google it as that's where she'll most likely get her answers on transgendered people.  Not sure why that is an unkind statement. [emoji52]



Your reply was just fine.


----------



## iluvmybags

The VF article is 33 pages long!


----------



## mrsinsyder

I love that she stole Kim's pregnancy thunder. Love it.


----------



## iluvmybags




----------



## NYC Chicky

Coach Lover Too said:


> I would LOVE to know what Kris is REALLY thinking.




Bitsh stole my look lol


----------



## iluvmybags




----------



## iluvmybags




----------



## Jayne1

iluvmybags said:


> The VF article is 33 pages long!


I read everything you attached!  Is it possible to add more, if only a little at a time?

ETA -- oops, see you are doing that.  Thank you so much!


----------



## Hermes4evah

Coach Lover Too said:


>




Thank you!!!! Lmao.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sassys said:


> Natural born women don't show their "real self" on a magazine cover.




Let alone on Instagram or Facebook [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## usmcwifey

[emoji46][emoji46][emoji46][emoji46][emoji46]literally looks amazing ...way better than Bruce looked ....


----------



## dangerouscurves

Encore Hermes said:


> I wonder if the word older was accidentally ommited in front of "Jenner kids ", since he has 6 Jenner kids or if he feels he didn't make mistakes with the younger 2




She probably meant that she abandoned the 4 before she met evil Kris.


----------



## littlerock

:cry:

Love the last bit with Casey.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

littlerock said:


> :cry:
> 
> Love the last bit with Casey.



Me too.


----------



## Hermes4evah

I love the picture in the black lace bustier! (The close up one). Look at that pout. I know it's better late than never, but how beautiful she would have been in her 30"s. I feel bad she didn't get to enjoy being a young woman. Heck, I miss that myself.  

That said, I feel bad for his two youngest children. This must be especially hard to "lose" the father they knew.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

stacyredbird said:


> No one made him marry her and have two more kids.   He is responsible for the choices he made.  When he had a break between wives he should of followed through with it then or just remained single, instead of marrying yet again.   I don't think it is fair to blame any of his wives or children.



Oh this is exactly what I was fixing to post. I completely agree with you.
Granted, the pictures are great, BUT he should not be putting 80% of the blame on Kris. He was a big boy with a mind of his own, and if he didn't like the way he was being treated, then he had every opportunity to leave. Pisses me off that he's trying to make himself out to be a victim, (and everyone knows I'm not a Kris Jenner fan) but he/Caitlyn needs to own up and his part adds up to a lot more than 20%!!
I hope people don't fall for the pity crap she's (or he at the time...I am so confused) trying to pull off.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Note: I will refer to Bruce if I'm talking about the past.
If I'm talking about today's pics I'll refer to Caitlyn. 

Is it 5:00 yet?? lol


----------



## prettyprincess

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh this is exactly what I was fixing to post. I completely agree with you.
> Granted, the pictures are great, BUT he should not be putting 80% of the blame on Kris. He was a big boy with a mind of his own, and if he didn't like the way he was being treated, then he had every opportunity to leave. Pisses me off that he's trying to make himself out to be a victim, (and everyone knows I'm not a Kris Jenner fan) but he/Caitlyn needs to own up and his part adds up to a lot more than 20%!!
> I hope people don't fall for the pity crap she's (or he at the time...I am so confused) trying to pull off.



That's how I read it, hes victimizing himself all up and through that article.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Carson123 said:


> I'm unclear on what you're referring to? My comment isn't necessary or kind? Sorry but I wasn't going to through all the posts on this forum. Just told her to google it as that's where she'll most likely get her answers on transgendered people.  Not sure why that is an unkind statement. [emoji52]




It's because anytime someone on this thread says something that someone else may misconstrue as anti-transgender the fangs come out. I've had it happen to me more than once.
Some people need to keep in mind that although there may be transgendered people on this thread, this is NOT a support forum only. If people want to support those that are struggling, then that's all fine and dandy, but this is a celebrity gossip forum. Maybe those that are sensitive should start a transgender support thread only. Just my $0.02


----------



## Coach Lover Too

prettyprincess said:


> That's how I read it, hes victimizing himself all up and through that article.



Yep, and that's gonna cause me to hesitate in supporting him/her.


----------



## SouthTampa

yoshi1296 said:


> she looks stunning!! God bless caitlyn and i wish her much success and happiness!!


+1


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> It's because anytime someone on this thread says something that someone else may misconstrue as anti-transgender the fangs come out. I've had it happen to me more than once.
> Some people need to keep in mind that although there may be transgendered people on this thread, this is NOT a support forum only. If people want to support those that are struggling, then that's all fine and dandy, but this is a celebrity gossip forum. Maybe those that are sensitive should start a transgender support thread only. Just my $0.02




I honestly agree with this.
It would help with all the tension and the pressure to comment and post a certain way.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Sasha2012 said:


> Not sure if these were posted.
> 
> via tumblr



What is up with this ankle?  And if this is a Leibowicz photo I am surprised she didn't direct the shot better to avoid such awkwardness.


----------



## Carson123

Bentley1 said:


> I honestly agree with this.
> It would help with all the tension and the pressure to comment and post a certain way.




Regardless of how someone comments/posts, I think there's always going to be misinterpretation of intended "tone".


----------



## queenofshopping

I did not read the article to say that he blamed Kris for 80% of the break up- it said that the break up was 20% gender dysphoria and 80% how she treated him. I guess it is how you look at it. I understood it to be an explanation that it wasn't all gender issues that caused the marriage to fail. From what I have seen of Kris, his statements do not surprise me. The writer did state that there was some victimization from Bruce/Caitlyn, however, in most break ups, who doesn't have their own perception of the disintegration of the relationship?


----------



## Sarni

Wow looking good Caitlyn!! (And also so happy she stole Kim's thunder!)


----------



## poopsie

Sarni said:


> Wow looking good Caitlyn!! *(And also so happy she stole Kim's thunder!)*





IKR! I was getting my hair done this afternoon and all the talk was about Bruce/Caitlyn................not a peep about Kimmy


----------



## Oryx816

Even like this she looks better than Kim.


----------



## gracekelly

Sarni said:


> Wow looking good Caitlyn!! (*And also so happy she stole Kim's thunder!)*




This is what I find so supremely funny.  Her mother must be fuming over this.  

Gosh what stunt can they come up with to bring the spotlight back to the K side of things?

I wonder if Kris was trying to convince Caitlyn to spell it with a "K?"


----------



## DesigningStyle

prettyprincess said:


> That's how I read it, hes victimizing himself all up and through that article.



That and I hate his excuses about not attending the milestones in his children's lives and being an absent father.  He could have simply looked up when graduations took place and attended.  He did not need to have the mothers tell him those things.  He was a disgraceful father.  He never did put his children first.  Shame on him.


----------



## DesigningStyle

This article really showcases what a mess he is.  Such poor character.  Perhaps he is trying to explain his bad behavior and has convinced himself that gender issues to are to blame for his life decisions and the collateral damage of all the other lives he touched and hurt.  Becoming Caitlyn is a good way to start new.  

Go ahead throw the tomatoes.  I am just sharing thoughts and who knows tomorrow I may think differently.


----------



## gracekelly

Sarni said:


> Wow looking good Caitlyn!! (*And also so happy she stole Kim's thunder!)*




This is what I find so supremely funny.  Her mother must be fuming over this.  

Gosh what stunt can they come up with to bring the spotlight back to the K side of things?


----------



## Luvbolide

DesigningStyle said:


> That and I hate his excuses about not attending the milestones in his children's lives and being an absent father.  He could have simply looked up when graduations took place and attended.  He did not need to have the mothers tell him those things.  He was a disgraceful father.  He never did put his children first.  Shame on him.




I totally agree - it is despicable that Caitlyn didn't get in touch with her kids for years and missed their birthdays, Christmas and milestones like high school graduation.  She lived in the same freaking city, for heaven's sake.  It says a lot about the way their moms raised the kids that they are willing to even see Caitlyn and be involved with her - they are much bigger people than he ever was.


----------



## tweegy

So if I what I'm understanding from the article of her concerns for Kendal and Kylie the fact that they bought houses made him at ease with them handling the news? [emoji53] anyone else got that part? I don't understand that.


----------



## Blue Irina

Wow! She looks good.


----------



## erinrose

Looking way better than Kris ever did.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Abelle said:


> Who said anything about approval? *Its a simple fact that he'll always be a man dressing as a woman.*
> If you don't like my questions, you don't have to respond to them



You're joking right? That is very disrespectful to say. I really hope you didn't mean that.


----------



## prettyprincess

DesigningStyle said:


> That and I hate his excuses about not attending the milestones in his children's lives and being an absent father.  He could have simply looked up when graduations took place and attended.  He did not need to have the mothers tell him those things.  He was a disgraceful father.  He never did put his children first.  Shame on him.



The part about the earthquake phone call really made me sad for his son.


----------



## blackkitty4378

If you have access to this forum you must have access to google&#8230; I think people should be allowed to ask questions, but the transgender community receives so much snark already I can understand why some people would get defensive. If you have genuine questions or concerns, I'm sure you'll be able to find much in depth and credible answers from a google search than you would in a forum.


----------



## Abelle

Yoshi1296 said:


> You're joking right? That is very disrespectful to say. I really hope you didn't mean that.



Not trying to be rude, we just have differing opinions. He can approximate the physical appearance and may very well feel like he's a woman in his soul, but he'll never be a real woman. It's never going to be the same, no matter how many surgeries he gets.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Abelle said:


> Not trying to be rude, we just have differing opinions. He can approximate the physical appearance and may very well feel like he's a woman in his soul, but he'll never be *a real woman*. It's never going to be the same, no matter how many surgeries he gets.



What do you think makes some a "real woman"? Let's start there.


----------



## prettyprincess

He sort of reminds me of an older, more nipped/tucked, version of Jamie Allan Allman.


----------



## labelwhore04

Abelle said:


> Not trying to be rude, we just have differing opinions. He can approximate the physical appearance and may very well feel like he's a woman in his soul, but he'll never be a real woman. It's never going to be the same, no matter how many surgeries he gets.



You realize that gender and sex are two different things right? His sex will never be female but his gender CAN be and is female. Sex is what you are biologically born as, gender is what you identify as.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Abelle said:


> Not trying to be rude, we just have differing opinions. He can approximate the physical appearance and may very well feel like he's a woman in his soul, but he'll never be a real woman. It's never going to be the same, no matter how many surgeries he gets.



I'm sorry if my previous post came off a bit rough. I am just disheartened after reading your post. She IS a woman. A real woman. If she, on the inside, truly feels that she is a woman, then, she is a real woman. Gender is used as a way to identify oneself. Bruce felt that he was truly a woman on the inside not a man, so he transitioned into a beautiful, real woman named Caitlyn.


----------



## Jayne1

prettyprincess said:


> He sort of reminds me of an older, more nipped/tucked, version of Jamie Allan Allman.



Excellent comparison!


----------



## tweegy

Has Kris said anything yet? Has anyone checked on her???


----------



## FreeSpirit71

tweegy said:


> Has Kris said anything yet? Has anyone checked on her???



Tweegy, ain't nobody checking for Kris today. That gal is completely overshadowed. (and she must be_ p*ssed_)

Her frown line from the lack of attention must be Grand Canyon deep. Her Derm Doc is going to have ship in the fillers and Tox from all over North America to fix it.


----------



## tweegy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Tweegy, ain't nobody checking for Kris today. That gal is completely overshadowed. (and she must be_ p*ssed_)
> 
> 
> 
> Her frown line from the lack of attention must be Grand Canyon deep. Her Derm Doc is going to have ship in the fillers and Tox from all over North America to fix it.




I mean check to see if she's awake... Top her up on a box of wine..some tabs? Nothing??


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DesigningStyle said:


> This article really showcases what a mess he is.  Such poor character.  Perhaps he is trying to explain his bad behavior and has convinced himself that gender issues to are to blame for his life decisions and the collateral damage of all the other lives he touched and hurt.  Becoming Caitlyn is a good way to start new.
> 
> Go ahead throw the tomatoes.  I am just sharing thoughts and who knows tomorrow I may think differently.




I agree with you. I give credit where credit is due and the pictures are much better than I was expecting but just because he was struggling in his earlier years does not excuse the way he handled his parental responsibilities. He's lucky that his children seem to be so understanding because I can honestly say I'm not so certain I would handle it as well as they seem to be. I have no doubt I'd be holding a grudge. Especially if I were one of the older kids.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

tweegy said:


> I mean check to see if she's awake... Top her up on a box of wine..some tabs? Nothing??


----------



## DesigningStyle

tweegy said:


> So if I what I'm understanding from the article of her concerns for Kendal and Kylie the fact that they bought houses made him at ease with them handling the news? [emoji53] anyone else got that part? I don't understand that.





prettyprincess said:


> The part about the earthquake phone call really made me sad for his son.



Completely agree.  This article is not shining favorably on him.  He does not seem very intelligent.  So much of what he is revealing is not making him out to be a nice person.  His character is quite flawed in my opinion.  Why is he sharing so much?  It's like he has been uncorked!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oh jeez, people on Radar Online are saying next storyline: Kanye leaves Kim for Caitlyn!
Now wouldn't that be somethin'!
Hey, with this family, anything's possible.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh jeez, people on Radar Online are saying next storyline: Kanye leaves Kim for Caitlyn!
> Now wouldn't that be somethin'!
> Hey, with this family, anything's possible.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Wait! Supposing Lam Lam was having an affair with Caitlyn and they will come out as a couple [emoji102]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Just curious, did Bruce have a Twitter and facebook page before today?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

<<<<This is exactly how I looked when I read those Radar Online comments!


----------



## exotikittenx

Abelle said:


> Who said anything about approval? Its a simple fact that he'll always be a man dressing as a woman.
> If you don't like my questions, you don't have to respond to them



I lost patience in that last post after reading through everything. someone took the time to kindly explain.  It seems you just don't like their logical responses, some posts even taking the time to explain with a more scientific reasoning.  It really doesn't matter what your opinion is, because It can't change what is truth.  However, when your opinions only seek to bring someone down whose life doesn't even affect you, then that just translates to hatred.  Your responses are provoking In a subtle, passive way, and by ignoring claims backed by scientific evidence and sensible reasoning, then it seems more like you are just trolling here.  She did not say she didn't like your questions. You just don't like her answers that clash with your sentiment.


----------



## caitlin1214

tweegy said:


> I mean check to see if she's awake... Top her up on a box of wine..some tabs? Nothing??



Put out a plate of freshly baked goods. Maybe those will lure her out.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jessica Lange responds to comparisons! Guess it's not just us that thought they look similar!

http://www.justjared.com/2015/06/01/jessica-lange-responds-to-caitlyn-jenner-comparisons/


----------



## tweegy

caitlin1214 said:


> Put out a plate of freshly baked goods. Maybe those will lure her out.




Doll those cookies better be laced with something that would take down a horse


----------



## caitlin1214

She looks good. 


(I have a subscription to the magazine, so I can't wait to get this one in my mailbox.)


----------



## schadenfreude

prettyprincess said:


> The part about the earthquake phone call really made me sad for his son.



Me too. I actually feel bad for all his kids now. I never thought I'd ever think that, much less admit it.


----------



## exotikittenx

It is a painful subject, though, when people are perpetuating hatred and ignorance, and it still remains when people are committing suicide over such things as gender identity.  It's no joke or light celebrity topic in real life to people who live through it. It's okay to ask questions, but some questions are not very sensitive.


----------



## VickyB

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3016047
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> slayed!!



I think she should stick to pants and long dresses. Cover up those legs.


----------



## Sassys

I just thought of something.

Somewhere in Americ there are men with man caves who have posters and memorabilia of Bruce Jenner, who they always looked up to as their hero. Those same men might have a transgender son, who will now have Caitlyn Jenn's Vanity Fair cover on their wall and see her as their hero.

Wow!


----------



## labelwhore04




----------



## AEGIS

I just read that article...all of it
Bruce was such a terrible father--I feel so bad for his kids
this author does not appear to care for the Kardashians at all...


----------



## qudz104

I just find it so amusing that of all names to choose from, they selected a name that could've started with a K and then purposely went with a C instead.


----------



## tweegy

The thing that also I'm a little hrmm about is how they refer to Caitlyn as tho she's an entirely different person. It is Bruce. Whether it's his true self or a symbolic other person it is still Bruce the soul. They question her personality wise and he didn't know.but it is the same person. Just being their self. I never understood why they do that.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Who would have ever thought that Scott would become the man of the house!?


----------



## ByeKitty

qudz104 said:


> I just find it so amusing that of all names to choose from, they selected a name that could've started with a K and then purposely went with a C instead.



I was just thinking... His daughter is called Cassandra with a C. Could it be a gesture to her?


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Who would have ever thought that Scott would become the man of the house!?




Poor sox wasn't even thought of [emoji17]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

schadenfreude said:


> Me too. I actually feel bad for all his kids now. I never thought I'd ever think that, much less admit it.



1+
If anyone's a victim in all of this, it's his kids.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Poor sox wasn't even thought of [emoji17]



Oh gosh, I'd completely forgotten about Rob! Wonder what his thoughts are on things??


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh gosh, I'd completely forgotten about Rob! Wonder what his thoughts are on things??




You're probably the only one to wonder doll...poor sox... Wasn't even reach for comment? A mic slap? Nothing... The socks empire that busy???


----------



## schadenfreude

Coach Lover Too said:


> 1+
> If anyone's a victim in all of this, it's his kids.



The more I think about it, the more it rubs me the wrong way. When you become a parent, you are agreeing to set aside your needs/desires in favor of what's in the best interest for your kids. Not everyone can or is willing do so, and there's nothing wrong with that, but you've got to be honest about it. To be fair, he seemed to hesitate about parenthood so he had to have known deep down he didn't have it in him -- but then why do it again? And again? And again? _How_ many kids does he have?

The nail in the coffin is that he doesn't seem to show much regret or remorse. It seems like he was more interested in sitting around feeling sorry for himself in a pity party for one (despite having a charmed life and tremendous success) than being a parent. I suppose that could be the way the article was written, but the OTT way he chose to debut Caitlyn (boobs! bustiers! red lips! Porsches! gowns! glitter!) just throws it in his kids' faces even more. SMH. Those kids are better off without a "parent" like that.


----------



## prettyprincess

exotikittenx said:


> It is a painful subject, though, when people are perpetuating hatred and ignorance, and it still remains when people are committing suicide over such things as gender identity.  It's no joke or light celebrity topic in real life to people who live through it. It's okay to ask questions, but some questions are not very sensitive.



who are you to tell ppl what they can and cant ask. ppl commit suicide over online bullying too, I dont see you in the Kim K thread promoting tolerance and understanding and asking posters to stop tearing her every move to shreds. Not that I give a d a m n about KK but the hypocrisy in this thread can be a bit much. If this is such a sensitive issue for you, you should start a transgender thread like someone had suggested.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

@schadenfreude, I remember watching the episode where he was explaining to the girls what his intentions were and instead of trying to console them, his attitude seemed to be *this is what I'm going to do, so deal with it.* I saw a side of Bruce at that point that I didn't like.

He cleans up nice, I'll give him that much, but as far as being a good husband and dad to his children, he pretty much sucks.He's as self-absorbed as the rest of that family.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

tweegy said:


> The thing that also I'm a little hrmm about is how they refer to Caitlyn as tho she's an entirely different person. It is Bruce. Whether it's his true self or a symbolic other person it is still Bruce the soul. They question her personality wise and he didn't know.but it is the same person. Just being their self. I never understood why they do that.



I find it odd too.


----------



## blackkitty4378

She must feel like the persona of "Bruce" has been a lie, and Caitlyn is who she really has been all along.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

blackkitty4378 said:


> She must feel like the persona of "Bruce" has been a lie, and Caitlyn is who she really has been all along.



Yeah, I can see that. But they act like the first sixty years of her life just didn't matter. Like she didn't exist before today.


----------



## Jayne1

I just saw an interesting thing on CNN.  They were interviewing a guy who was trans and then trans-ed back. He said 41% get suicidal.  He's written books on it and had some interesting things to say about wanting to dress up and  you can't change genders.

Anyone else see this?


----------



## gottaluvmybags

I think it's a bit unfair to pair Bruce's parenting with the transition to Caitlyn.  Bruce had a ton of issues which caused him to be a crappy parent and self absorbed - that is for his kids to judge and forgive.  

My parents were always dealing with their drama when I was growing up and there were periods in which my mom was in too much pain to really take care of my sister and I, my dad was out there chasing tail so he wasn't looking over us either... At 16-17 years old.  

People make mistakes when they're so stuck in their own issues and I hope that this transition has helped that family begin to heal and work things out in their own terms.  

I think Caitlyn looks great, my teen son came home and said "did you see the pics- how freaking amazing is that?" Hearing him talk like that gives me hope that we are moving to a better more understanding place.

Looking good Ms Jenner &#128521;


----------



## skarsbabe

I wonder how the trans community feels about this. So 'in your face, here I am now' and instant too - just weeks after the sawyer interview.

Though we don't know how much PS is going on in the magazine, something tells me it's quite a bit to glamorize the whole thing. I really wish the media would stop shoving him and the entire family down our throats!


----------



## blackkitty4378

I feel like a lot of the transphobia comes from people who are just afraid or unsure of anything different than what they're used to. First of all, you have gender roles which some people don't want to let go of. Then you have the people who don't understand that there's a difference between gender and sex.

Even biologically, it's not as black and white as people think. So one could argue that Bruce will never be a woman because he doesn't have ovaries or a uterus. Okay, so what does that make a woman who's had a hysterectomy? Is she less of a "woman" now that she doesn't have her reproductive organs?

And as I think someone mentioned, there actually are men who are XX, women who are XY, and other variations such as XO, XXY, and XXXY. Just something to think about.


----------



## AlbertsLove

as hard as it was for him to transform into a female imagine all the men and women who want to and need to but don't have the financial needs. He was able todo if smoother and full on. I bet that must feel amazing.


----------



## Lapis

skarsbabe said:


> *I wonder how the trans community feels about this. *So 'in your face, here I am now' and instant too - just weeks after the sawyer interview.
> Though we don't know how much PS is going on in the magazine, something tells me it's quite a bit to glamorize the whole thing. I really wish the media would stop shoving him and the entire family down our throats!



Not that the community is monolithic but I do have trans friends, and friends who are supportive family members of trans people, they seem excited even the ones who HATE reality tv and the K-Klan.
Here's the thing Caitlyn gives the general public a person who they knew and mostly admired pre transition. She helps to create a space where we have a mutual language, a basic understanding of this is what trans is, this is what it is not, it moves a step closer to improving/stopping other-ing.


----------



## caitlin1214

tweegy said:


> Doll those cookies better be laced with something that would take down a horse



Sorry, Doll, I didn't realize we were talking about Kris. I read "box" and "wine" and thought, "Is Tweegy not here again?"



But you're right. If we're talking about Kris, those cookies better be tranq cookies.


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-bruce-cover-style

*Dressing Caitlyn Jenner: V.F.s Jessica Diehl on Secret Shopping Runs and Classic Silhouettes*

After six and a half decades in hiding as Bruce Jennerthe Olympic champion and model of all-American masculinityCaitlyn Jenner introduced herself to the world Monday, on the July cover of Vanity Fair. In sumptuous photographs by Annie Leibovitz, Caitlyn reveals herself as an elegant beauty, comfortable in classic silhouettes, pin-up poses, and old-Hollywood aesthetics.

And just who helped Caitlyn decide upon her introductory look? Vanity Fairs veteran Fashion & Style Director Jessica Diehl, who has styled countless covers for the magazine, ensuring that each subject looks and feels his or her best. In celebration of Caitlyns grand unveiling today, VF Hollywood connected with Diehl to hear how she and Jenner collaborated on Caitlyns very public coming out, the James Bondesque precautions taken on this top-secret shoot, and what screen sirens helped inspire Caitlyns glossy first impression.

*VF Hollywood: I can't believe that you kept this a secret for so long.*

Jessica Diehl: It was not easy. I am getting a lot of angry text messages from friends, colleagues, and acquaintances.

*How long did you have to style this cover?*

Not that long [and] we couldnt really prepare the way we normally prepare. Normally we go to, I dont know, Valentino or Armani, and say we are shooting a cover and ask if they can give us some clothes [to borrow]. For this, I had to go into stores incognito, so to speaknot like anyone would know what I looked like anywayand buy stuff. That was actually what was fun. It was like Vanity Fair: Off the Rack.

*Did you talk to Caitlyn beforehand to discuss the look?*

Yes, I went to go meet her before just to talk through what she wanted to do. Just because the Vanity Fair thingit's a very specific look. It is not your casual-jeans Tuesday. But we also just wanted to talk about her style in life. Coming from a very fashion-forward family, we sort of thought that the nicest thing to do was to focus on style over fashion. Nothing too bling or too shiny. Kind of keeping it more in the style arena rather than hardcore fashion arena . . .

To get special early access to the revealing story and stunning photographs now before it hits newsstands on June 9, subscribe to Vanity Fairs digital edition on the iPhone or iPad.

*Were you talking at her house in Malibu? How long did the meeting last?*

I went to her house and stayed there for a couple of hours maybe, and just spent the time talking through things and bringing up lots of pictures and inspiration images, from Lauren Bacall to The Thomas Crown Affair to people who I think look amazing on the red carpet. And just vintage photographs of old Hollywood stars. A couple of Jackie Kennedys are never wrong. And then for the photo shoot, we talked more about how one would see oneself in an ideal world in Vanity Fair.

*You mentioned that you showed Caitlyn some inspiration images. What were some of Caitlyns own inspirations or ideas for how she wanted to look?*

Shes all-American in so many ways. She has certain ideas about what she feels great in. But those ideas are still forming and taking shape. There will be some experimentation and trying things. Welcome to the world of womens fashion! Its not always smooth sailing, but I think she has a pretty good idea of what makes her feel good, and those are classic silhouettes. She has a fantastic physique. It's just a totally well-taken-care-of physique. Shes an athlete, so the muscle tone is incredible. Shes slim, and her proportions are very easy to dress.

*The Kardashian family is known for clingier, more risqué styles. But Caitlyn is kind of wanting to keep her style classy and elegant?*

Yes, and that is no disrespect to the Kardashian clothing choices at all. Its just that feels more comfortable to her. Not to say that she won't rock a sexy Roland Mouret number. She would love it. But there is definitely a more restrained feeling so far. Hopefully she'll get to just have fun with it rather than have the fashion police judging what she wears every day. I think the most important thing here is that she gets to have fun and finally do things she's been wanting to do. For all I care, she could wear a purple striped muumuu dress that would be a fashion failure. But if that is a happy moment for her, that is a success to me.

*I would love to ask you about the styling on the cover specifically. Both you and Caitlyn knew how important this image was going to beculturally, and also, this is the worlds first impression of her. What was your vision for the cover look?*

It had a lot to do with the idea that there is so much artifice everywhere in the world and the world of red-carpet dressing, and even with magazines, there is artifice in everything we do. That can be wonderful because it is fun. But there was a stripped-down idea there that sort of felt like underneath all of this excitement and newsworthiness is the soul of a woman. And that didnt need a lot of covering up. It was not meant to be risqué in any way. It was really meant to sort of show with all honesty and purity, This is what is going on. Here I am.

*There is already a report online speculating that Caitlyn wanted to show off her body so that there would not be any more questions from the public about what her body looked like. Was that a discussion at all?*

It was not so much a discussion with us. I think Annie and Caitlyn and all of us sort of went at it from the perspective of this is her moment to be in her own skin. Were not going to take a nude photograph. I don't know if that report is completely right. I think it is a positive side effect. The one thing that you don't really need after months and months of speculation is further intrusiveness. I think the only way to counter that is to be open and honest. I think that is what the Diane Sawyer thing was about. It is really Caitlyn embracing that she is free.

*You mentioned how much harder it was to style this cover because of the secrecy involved. Can you talk about some of the James Bondesque precautions you had to take while preparing for the shoot?*

Well, my poor office thought we were doing Barbra Streisand! I just couldn't think of anyone tall. [Laughs] And I don't even know if Barbra Streisand is tall, but in my mind she was tall. And so that just seemed right. I should have said Rene Russo, who I think [Caitlyn] looks like more anyway. The secrecy, I have to say, had a lot to do with being discreet and shoppinga lot of which we did online. We talked to no one. Literally, the people here at Vanity Fair did not know. Three people in the fashion department knew, including me.

*Did you have other looks you considered for the cover or was the corset the clear forerunner?*

We tried everything. We had basically a three- or four-hour fitting. I have to say, out of that three- or four-hour fitting, there were only two things we did not like. Everything looks good on her. That just doesn't happen. It was never the clear forerunnerit just kind of became clear when we spent the day together. Annie, I am sure, had it in her mind [what the cover was going to look like] way before. Annie always has the thing in her mind way before and lets it all unfold, and then we all take credit for it. The off-the-shoulder Zac Posen was really beautiful. But then, all she really wanted to do was be open and honest. That is how that look felt.

*In the cover story, V.F. contributing editor Buzz Bissinger mentions how comfortable Caitlyn was throughout the cover shoot. Is that the sense that you got?*

Absolutely. I'd like a slice out of that confidence pie. She was comfortable, confident, and has absolutely no reason not to be. It was probably the most exciting thing to seethere was real joy in her feeling comfortable and happy in her skin. It was amazing. I don't usually get super sentimental about things, but that was probably the most emotional and open experience I have ever had on a shoot.

*You have styled so many incredible covers over the year, but what did this landmark coverlandmark momentmean to you personally?*

Everyones reactions have been super personal because you can only imagine what a life not lived in openness and in your skin would be like. We can all kind of find things that made us feel uncomfortable in our skin. And to see someone letting all of that go and just being completely at home and at peace with themselves is something everyone wishes they could have. You felt an incredible sense of responsibility. I didn't want her to feel in any way that this wasn't . . . this was meant to be the most fun she was ever going to have on a shoot. And that was utopic. And she will probably have even more fun [on future shoots because there will be less at stake].

It was really meant to feel like the most welcome to the club kind of experience. I can't describe itwe all bawled our eyes out at the end. And I am not a crier. It was the most personal experience. It was more than just taking pictures.

To get special early access to the revealing story and stunning photographs now before it hits newsstands on June 9


----------



## dangerouscurves

AlbertsLove said:


> as hard as it was for him to transform into a female imagine all the men and women who want to and need to but don't have the financial needs. He was able todo if smoother and full on. I bet that must feel amazing.




Yeah. It must be really hard for those who don't live in UK or Germany. In these two countries, transitioning is paid by the govt or the insurance company.


----------



## AlbertsLove

dangerouscurves said:


> Yeah. It must be really hard for those who don't live in UK or Germany. In these two countries, transitioning is paid by the govt or the insurance company.



Wow. That must be amazing. I know it's not the same but I have really wide feet, I mine regular shoes don't fit me. I wish I could change that. Sometimes I am lucky to find shoes that are okay and fit but I can never buy the ones I love. I know not the same but it sucks when something you can't change does not let you be yourself. I wish I had nicer shoes, then I would buy nicer clothes, after that I think my hair would get a nice style. Okay, now I am sad. I can't imagine what they must go through.


----------



## redney

I love that Caitlyn isn't gonna wear K krap from Sears or Kanye's dopeness. I also love that Caitlyn outshone the K's all around! Kimmie who? Kris kan't kontrol her. HA.


----------



## stylemepretty

I love that Caitlyn's cover upstaged Kim's pregnancy news and that she looks better as a woman than Kris.


----------



## lh211

"I was mistreated" Caitlyn lifts the lid on marriage to Kris



> Former sporting champion Bruce Jenner launched a stinging attack on ex-wife Kris as he unveiled his new female identity as glamorous Caitlyn on the cover of Vanity Fair.
> The pair were married for 23 years until their divorce was finalised in December, but Caitlyn, who has now transitioned, has branded the matriarch 'controlling' and says she felt 'mistreated'.
> Caitlyn, 65, who debuted her feminized self on the cover while wearing a white corset, said Kris, 59, 'wasn't very nice' and that gender didn't cause them to divorce - it was mainly her treatment of him.



 It's all coming out now.... Wonder what PMK will do in revenge?


----------



## DesigningStyle

tweegy said:


> The thing that also I'm a little hrmm about is how they refer to Caitlyn as tho she's an entirely different person. It is Bruce. Whether it's his true self or a symbolic other person it is still Bruce the soul. They question her personality wise and he didn't know.but it is the same person. Just being their self. I never understood why they do that.



Totally agree.  I feel like Jenner regrets his life and wants a do over.  After all the gold medals don't matter...it's the family that matters and he got that so wrong.


----------



## bag-princess

labelwhore04 said:


> View attachment 3016743





:lolots::lolots::lolots:


i love when i have a nice laugh to start the day!!!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Jayne1 said:


> I just saw an interesting thing on CNN.  They were interviewing a guy who was trans and then trans-ed back. He said 41% get suicidal.  He's written books on it and had some interesting things to say about wanting to dress up and  you can't change genders.
> 
> Anyone else see this?



I did not see it but I would have been interested in seeing it!  I like to learn.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Coach Lover Too said:


> 1+
> If anyone's a victim in all of this, it's his kids.



I mentioned collateral damage earlier and I completely agree.  What a self absorbed world we live in.  It is sinful.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Eva1991 said:


> I think she means that she's now free to live as her true self. Before telling the world who she really was, Caitlyn (Bruce) was living a lie, pretending to be someome she was not.



I think it is deeper than that.  This entire VF article needs analysis by a psychiatrist.  It is very telling of much deeper issues than just being gender confused.


----------



## ByeKitty

DesigningStyle said:


> I think it is deeper than that.  This entire VF article needs analysis by a psychiatrist.  It is very telling of much deeper issues than just being gender confused.



Can you elaborate on this? I didn't get that impression at all. I kind of feel like the gender issues are quite deep and affect a lot...


----------



## pukasonqo

wasn't kimbo very obviously not invited to the. VF's parties? i thought grayson carter made a comment recently about her
anyway, caitlyn beat kimbo to a VF cover
hope caitlyn, now that she is allowed in the open (so to speak), finds what she has been searching for all this long and that she and her children manage to have a relationship but as far away from the cameras as possible! she needs time to grow into herself and i hope she does not becomes the next kartrashian plot


----------



## Eva1991

tweegy said:


> So if I what I'm understanding from the article of her concerns for Kendal and Kylie the fact that they bought houses made him at ease with them handling the news? [emoji53] anyone else got that part? I don't understand that.




I think she meant they were mature enough to handle the news of her transition but, personally, I don't believe they were. Buying a house doesn't necessarily mean that you're mature or responsible; it should but in reality it doesn't.


----------



## Eva1991

DesigningStyle said:


> I think it is deeper than that.  This entire VF article needs analysis by a psychiatrist.  It is very telling of much deeper issues than just being gender confused.



Hmmm... I don't know. I think Caitlyn's main issue was gender dysphoria which caused a lot of problems in her personal and family life. Of course her being an absent parent was her fault because her decision to get married and have kids was a conscious one, no one forced her to marry 3 times and have 6 kids, but I bellieve that most of her problems stemmed from the dysphoria. We can't really tell what kind of parent she would have been had she not been suffering from these issues.


----------



## Avril

jclaybo said:


> Bruce has been patiently waiting to do this, he was always overshadowed on that show and as a member of that family and finally he trumps all news of Kim's pregnancy. He literally single handily is breaking the internet and has cast the most famous Kardashian of them all to the background like an after dinner burp.
> Bravo Caitlyn, bravo



This ALL DAY! Caitlyn looks amazing. I also notice Kris has said nothing about Caitlyn on Twitter / IG - she tweeted a photo yesterday of Kendall but nothing about this.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

There is NO excuse for Bruce being an absent parent. I don't care what issues he was dealing with. It irked me when I read his comment>>>>>>According to the website,  "Jenner speaks movingly about her journey, telling Bissinger, 'If I was  lying on my deathbed and I had kept this secret and never ever did  anything about it, I would be lying there saying,* "You just blew your  entire life." 

*I can only imagine how that comment must make his kids feel. Just when I think people in that family can't become any more self absorbed, then this happens.*


*I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think he's about as selfish as they come. *
*


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Using gender dysphoria as an excuse for being a bad parent is like saying *Well, she would have been a great mother if she weren't an alcoholic.* Complete BS.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> There is NO excuse for Bruce being an absent parent. I don't care what issues he was dealing with. It irked me when I read his comment>>>>>>According to the website,  "Jenner speaks movingly about her journey, telling Bissinger, 'If I was  lying on my deathbed and I had kept this secret and never ever did  anything about it, I would be lying there saying,* "You just blew your  entire life."
> 
> *I can only imagine how that comment must make his kids feel. Just when I think people in that family can't become any more self absorbed, then this happens.*
> 
> 
> *I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think he's about as selfish as they come. *
> *



I don't know if this was directed at me, but I didn't see anyone here justifying and condoning Bruce's parenting (or actually, lack thereof).


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Eva1991 said:


> Hmmm... I don't know. I think Caitlyn's main issue was gender dysphoria which caused a lot of problems in her personal and family life. Of course her being an absent parent was her fault because her decision to get married and have kids was a conscious one, no one forced her to marry 3 times and have 6 kids, but I bellieve that most of her problems stemmed from the dysphoria. We can't really tell what kind of parent she would have been had she not been suffering from these issues.




ByeKitty, nope, it wasn't directed at you. It was in reference to this comment.
I feel there's some that think we should be willing to overlook his crappy choices because of his other issues and I think there is no excuse. He wasn't even there for his oldest daughter's birth? Shame on him.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> ByeKitty, nope, it wasn't directed at you. It was in reference to this comment.
> I feel there's some that think we should be willing to overlook his crappy choices because of his other issues and I think there is no excuse. He wasn't even there for his oldest daughter's birth? Shame on him.



Ah right, whoops, missed that comment. As for my point of view: the gender issues may help explain why he was too occupied with himself to be a father, but that can never be a justification. There's also an odd type of circular reasoning, resulting in a rather obvious conclusion: All bad parents would have been good parents if only they didn't have those things that made them bad parents. I think Bruce had been very self centered, and I hope he can have a better relationship with his kids now that he's free from PMK.


----------



## tweegy

blackkitty4378 said:


> She must feel like the persona of "Bruce" has been a lie, and Caitlyn is who she really has been all along.







CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> Yeah, I can see that. But they act like the first sixty years of her life just didn't matter. Like she didn't exist before today.




I get what you're saying black kitty. But they asked him things about 'her' and he was indirect and at times seemed unsure. To me, a person going threw what he is/was would sound more assertive. It's something you've been battling with for the greater part of your existence. You should be able to be more assure rather than saying nail polish under clothing is liberating. Maybe he was being illusive for the reveal. But his explanations and actions do seem questionable to me like another poster suggested, maybe there is another psychological disorder under there.

Because Bruce can change what ever he wants from now til whenever. It's still going to be Bruce.. Not Caitlyn inhabiting the body of former Bruce Jenner. (Yah dig?) it's still that person. 

I'm glad he's now being himself if this is genuinely the case and he is in the best position to help others going thru this. To each their own in my book. I just hope he's using it wisely and not primarily for self glory. But some of the things he says and how he's going about this seems a bit off to me.


----------



## Swanky

*Rob Kardashian On Caitlyn Jenner's "Vanity Fair" Cover: "Who Is This Woman And Why Do I Care?"*

*Kim Kardashian says her brother was very confused by Caitlyn's groundbreaking VF shoot &#8212; at least at first.*

It turns out Rob Kardashian was one of the roughly 7 people unaware of last week's wildly-churning rumor mill surrounding his stepfather Caitlyn Jenner's _Vanity Fair_ cover. Kim Kardashian talked with Access Hollywood on the red carpet at last night's CFDA Awards in New York, and said Rob was, at first, quite confused by the furor.
"It was so funny, because all the girls, we knew that Caitlyn was shooting this, but my brother had no idea," Kim said. "So I sent it on a mass text to everyone and my brother was on it, and he goes 'Kim why are you sending me this? Like, who is this woman and why do I care?' And I was like, 'Rob, that's Bruce, that's Caitlyn!'" (It's not normally considered appropriate to refer to a transgender person by their pre-transition name, but in the instance of first providing context it's widely considered fair &#8212; and Caitlyn has told _Vanity Fair_ she's not "hung up" on the issue of pronouns.) Kim clarified that Rob, upon realizing, said Caitlyn looked "so beautiful," and "then he called her and they had a lovefest and it was so cute."


As well as Kim, Caitlyn's other stepchildren Khloé and Kourtney, and daughters Kendall and Kylie all shared their support on social media yesterday.


http://www.cosmopolitan.com/enterta...rdashian-on-caitlyn-jenner-vanity-fair-cover/


----------



## Swanky

*Drake Bell catches heat over Caitlyn Jenner tweet: 'Still calling you Bruce'*

By Lisa Respers France, CNN

Updated 7:35 AM ET, Tue June 2, 2015







Former Nickelodeon star Drake Bell stepped on a social media landmine Monday.


*Story highlights*


The actor tweeted "Sorry...still calling you Bruce"
The former Nickelodeon star has deleted his tweets
 (CNN)Former Nickelodeon star Drake Bell is under fire after he tweeted "Sorry...still calling you Bruce" when the world met Caitlyn Jenner on Monday.

After Vanity Fair released its new cover featuring Jenner and the headline "Call me Caitlyn," fans quickly embraced the former Olympic athlete, who at 65 recently revealed that she would be transitioning. Jenner joined Twitter, tweeting the cover and an introduction to who she is now.
No more Bruce: Meet Caitlyn Jenner
#CallMeCaitlyn immediately began trending. Jenner quickly broke the record held by President *****'s Twitter account, attracting 1 million followers in just four hours. Naturally, she tweeted about it.

The response to Jenner and the cover was overwhelmingly supportive, but Bell stepped on a social media landmine with his response. And the Internet let him know it. 


http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/02/entertainment/drake-bell-caitlyn-jenner-tweet-feat/index.html


----------



## tweegy

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> *Rob Kardashian On Caitlyn Jenner's "Vanity Fair" Cover: "Who Is This Woman And Why Do I Care?"*
> 
> *Kim Kardashian says her brother was very confused by Caitlyn's groundbreaking VF shoot  at least at first.*
> 
> It turns out Rob Kardashian was one of the roughly 7 people unaware of last week's wildly-churning rumor mill surrounding his stepfather Caitlyn Jenner's _Vanity Fair_ cover. Kim Kardashian talked with Access Hollywood on the red carpet at last night's CFDA Awards in New York, and said Rob was, at first, quite confused by the furor.
> "It was so funny, because all the girls, we knew that Caitlyn was shooting this, but my brother had no idea," Kim said. "So I sent it on a mass text to everyone and my brother was on it, and he goes 'Kim why are you sending me this? Like, who is this woman and why do I care?' And I was like, 'Rob, that's Bruce, that's Caitlyn!'" (It's not normally considered appropriate to refer to a transgender person by their pre-transition name, but in the instance of first providing context it's widely considered fair  and Caitlyn has told _Vanity Fair_ she's not "hung up" on the issue of pronouns.) Kim clarified that Rob, upon realizing, said Caitlyn looked "so beautiful," and "then he called her and they had a lovefest and it was so cute."
> 
> 
> As well as Kim, Caitlyn's other stepchildren Khloé and Kourtney, and daughters Kendall and Kylie all shared their support on social media yesterday.
> 
> 
> http://www.cosmopolitan.com/enterta...rdashian-on-caitlyn-jenner-vanity-fair-cover/




Awww man  poor sox.. They didn't tell him.


----------



## GaitreeS

I'm  beginning to think Rob is the only sane person in this family...


----------



## Ms.parker123

I find it hard to believe that Rob had nothing but great things to say about his step-father transition. I actually find it hard to believe that mostly everyone is fine with it.


 Seems sketchy, I think they just put out these tweets just so it can appear everything is great.


----------



## DesigningStyle

schadenfreude said:


> The more I think about it, the more it rubs me the wrong way. When you become a parent, you are agreeing to set aside your needs/desires in favor of what's in the best interest for your kids. Not everyone can or is willing do so, and there's nothing wrong with that, but you've got to be honest about it. To be fair, he seemed to hesitate about parenthood so he had to have known deep down he didn't have it in him -- but then why do it again? And again? And again? _How_ many kids does he have?
> 
> The nail in the coffin is that he doesn't seem to show much regret or remorse. It seems like he was more interested in sitting around feeling sorry for himself in a pity party for one (despite having a charmed life and tremendous success) than being a parent. I suppose that could be the way the article was written, but the OTT way he chose to debut Caitlyn (boobs! bustiers! red lips! Porsches! gowns! glitter!) just throws it in his kids' faces even more. SMH. Those kids are better off without a "parent" like that.



Exactly.



prettyprincess said:


> who are you to tell ppl what they can and cant ask. ppl commit suicide over online bullying too, I dont see you in the Kim K thread promoting tolerance and understanding and asking posters to stop tearing her every move to shreds. Not that I give a d a m n about KK but the hypocrisy in this thread can be a bit much. If this is such a sensitive issue for you, you should start a transgender thread like someone had suggested.



You are so right.  I am not going to walk on "egg shells" in a gossip thread.  None of us should.  



Coach Lover Too said:


> @schadenfreude, I remember watching the episode where he was explaining to the girls what his intentions were and instead of trying to console them, his attitude seemed to be *this is what I'm going to do, so deal with it.* I saw a side of Bruce at that point that I didn't like.
> 
> He cleans up nice, I'll give him that much, but as far as being a good husband and dad to his children, he pretty much sucks.He's as self-absorbed as the rest of that family.



I remember that too.  Self-absorbed is an understatement.



blackkitty4378 said:


> She must feel like the persona of "Bruce" has been a lie, and Caitlyn is who she really has been all along.



Jenner is who is Jenner is.  Changing a name, changing a gender does NOT change the person.



CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> Yeah, I can see that. But they act like the first sixty years of her life just didn't matter. Like she didn't exist before today.



That is exactly what Jenner is trying to do.  Poof.  It is all gone.  This is who I am now.  Nope it doesn't work that way.  Sorry.


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> I get what you're saying black kitty. But they asked him things about 'her' and he was indirect and at times seemed unsure. To me, a person going threw what he is/was would sound more assertive. It's something you've been battling with for the greater part of your existence. You should be able to be more assure rather than saying nail polish under clothing is liberating. Maybe he was being illusive for the reveal. But his explanations and actions do seem questionable to me like another poster suggested, maybe there is another psychological disorder under there.
> 
> Because Bruce can change what ever he wants from now til whenever. It's still going to be Bruce.. Not Caitlyn inhabiting the body of former Bruce Jenner. (Yah dig?) it's still that person.
> 
> I'm glad he's now being himself if this is genuinely the case and he is in the best position to help others going thru this. To each their own in my book. I just hope he's using it wisely and not primarily for self glory. But some of the things he says and how he's going about this seems a bit off to me.


Hmm I can imagine not being entirely sure about what you and your life will be like after transitioning...


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> Hmm I can imagine not being entirely sure about what you and your life will be like after transitioning...




I know not everyone is the same.. 

Everyone circumstance is different. From folks I've encountered in similar stances they knew very early in life. I do think that in most times it is more than a mere choice. 

And they can provide more insight than Caitlyn did.


----------



## DesigningStyle

ByeKitty said:


> Can you elaborate on this? I didn't get that impression at all. I kind of feel like the gender issues are quite deep and affect a lot...



I wish I could.  I do a lot of reading.  I love learning about people.  There is just something odd about the way that article read to me.  Call it woman's intuition.  Something just doesn't read "right." 



Eva1991 said:


> Hmmm... I don't know. I think Caitlyn's main issue was gender dysphoria which caused a lot of problems in her personal and family life. Of course her being an absent parent was her fault because her decision to get married and have kids was a conscious one, no one forced her to marry 3 times and have 6 kids, but I bellieve that most of her problems stemmed from the dysphoria. We can't really tell what kind of parent she would have been had she not been suffering from these issues.



Interesting.  



Coach Lover Too said:


> There is NO excuse for Bruce being an absent parent. I don't care what issues he was dealing with. It irked me when I read his comment>>>>>>According to the website,  "Jenner speaks movingly about her journey, telling Bissinger, 'If I was  lying on my deathbed and I had kept this secret and never ever did  anything about it, I would be lying there saying,* "You just blew your  entire life."
> 
> *I can only imagine how that comment must make his kids feel. Just when I think people in that family can't become any more self absorbed, then this happens.*
> 
> 
> *I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think he's about as selfish as they come. *
> *



You are so right.  It is all about him.  He really has no idea of how he has impacted everyone around him.  



Coach Lover Too said:


> Using gender dysphoria as an excuse for being a bad parent is like saying *Well, she would have been a great mother if she weren't an alcoholic.* Complete BS.



I agree.  Man up or woman up and own it.  I hate excuses.  



ByeKitty said:


> Ah right, whoops, missed that comment. As for my point of view: the gender issues may help explain why he was too occupied with himself to be a father, but that can never be a justification. There's also an odd type of circular reasoning, resulting in a rather obvious conclusion: All bad parents would have been good parents if only they didn't have those things that made them bad parents. I think Bruce had been very self centered, and I hope he can have a better relationship with his kids now that he's free from PMK.



Well, I don't think Bruce sees being free from PMK as the issue.  I think he sees being free from Bruce as the issue.  Now that he is Caitlyn, the bad Bruce is no more.  SMH.



tweegy said:


> I get what you're saying black kitty. But they asked him things about 'her' and he was indirect and at times seemed unsure. To me, a person going threw what he is/was would sound more assertive. It's something you've been battling with for the greater part of your existence. You should be able to be more assure rather than saying nail polish under clothing is liberating. Maybe he was being illusive for the reveal. But his explanations and actions do seem questionable to me like another poster suggested, maybe there is another psychological disorder under there.
> 
> Because Bruce can change what ever he wants from now til whenever. It's still going to be Bruce.. Not Caitlyn inhabiting the body of former Bruce Jenner. (Yah dig?) it's still that person.
> 
> I'm glad he's now being himself if this is genuinely the case and he is in the best position to help others going thru this. To each their own in my book. I just hope he's using it wisely and not primarily for self glory. But some of the things he says and how he's going about this seems a bit off to me.



Words of wisdom.  Great post.


----------



## B. Jara

DesigningStyle said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are so right.  I am not going to walk on "egg shells" in a gossip thread.  None of us should.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember that too.  Self-absorbed is an understatement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner is who is Jenner is.  Changing a name, changing a gender does NOT change the person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly what Jenner is trying to do.  Poof.  It is all gone.  This is who I am now.  Nope it doesn't work that way.  Sorry.




Perfectly said, great post!


----------



## Eva1991

Coach Lover Too said:


> ByeKitty, nope, it wasn't directed at you. It was in reference to this comment.
> I feel there's some that think we should be willing to overlook his crappy choices because of his other issues and I think there is no excuse. He wasn't even there for his oldest daughter's birth? Shame on him.





ByeKitty said:


> Ah right, whoops, missed that comment. As for my point of view: the gender issues may help explain why he was too occupied with himself to be a father, but that can never be a justification. There's also an odd type of circular reasoning, resulting in a rather obvious conclusion: All bad parents would have been good parents if only they didn't have those things that made them bad parents. I think Bruce had been very self centered, and I hope he can have a better relationship with his kids now that he's free from PMK.



I never said he would be a better parent had he not had the gender  issues. I said we don't know what kind of parent he would be. He could  be a better one, a worse one or still absent. I also think that Kris  played a huge part in his parenting and influenced him a lot. Her focus  was the Kardashian business and not how to build a stable family life or  how to merge their pre-existing families together. Having 6 kids of your own (from 3 different marriages), 4 step kids, a very controlling wife and huge personal issues to deal with would make anyone stressed. 

I'm not saying his behavior towards his 4 older kids was right; it wasn't and if I was his daughter I wouldn't be very welcoming to him but I'm not and I can see things from a different perspective, probably a more objective one. All I'm saying is that there is a reason behind his behavior, IMHO, that doesn't offer an excuse of course but it does offer an explanation.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> *Drake Bell catches heat over Caitlyn Jenner tweet: 'Still calling you Bruce'*
> 
> By Lisa Respers France, CNN
> 
> Updated 7:35 AM ET, Tue June 2, 2015
> 
> 
> i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150602070400-drake-bell-file-exlarge-169.jpg
> Former Nickelodeon star Drake Bell stepped on a social media landmine Monday.
> 
> 
> *Story highlights*
> 
> 
> The actor tweeted "Sorry...still calling you Bruce"
> The former Nickelodeon star has deleted his tweets
> (CNN)Former Nickelodeon star Drake Bell is under fire after he tweeted "Sorry...still calling you Bruce" when the world met Caitlyn Jenner on Monday.
> 
> After Vanity Fair released its new cover featuring Jenner and the headline "Call me Caitlyn," fans quickly embraced the former Olympic athlete, who at 65 recently revealed that she would be transitioning. Jenner joined Twitter, tweeting the cover and an introduction to who she is now.
> No more Bruce: Meet Caitlyn Jenner
> #CallMeCaitlyn immediately began trending. Jenner quickly broke the record held by President *****'s Twitter account, attracting 1 million followers in just four hours. Naturally, she tweeted about it.
> 
> The response to Jenner and the cover was overwhelmingly supportive, but Bell stepped on a social media landmine with his response. And the Internet let him know it.
> 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/02/entertainment/drake-bell-caitlyn-jenner-tweet-feat/index.html




Timbaland said the same thing on FB. It's one thing to call her Bruce by accident and out of habit but to flat out refuse to call her by the new name is obnoxious. Common decency is too much to ask for apparently


----------



## Charles

Abelle said:


> Who said anything about approval? Its a simple fact that he'll always be a man dressing as a woman.
> If you don't like my questions, you don't have to respond to them



You're still missing the point.  You're still assuming everyone is either man or woman, black or white.  It's not like that.  As Coco already mentioned, there are all types of DNA combinations aside from XX and XY, and even if you're XX or XY, your body's chemistry can be different from everyone else's which causes you to feel a certain way.  You're looking at him through your brain's wiring and putting your labels on her.  Caitlyn's brain is wired differently, so you're never going to understand how she feels.  Again, all you should be trying to do is accepting that this is her way of living her life.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Eva1991 said:


> I never said he would be a better parent had he not had the gender  issues. I said we don't know what kind of parent he would be. He could  be a better one, a worse one or still absent. I also think that Kris  played a huge part in his parenting and influenced him a lot. Her focus  was the Kardashian business and not how to build a stable family life or  how to merge their pre-existing families together. Having 6 kids of your own (from 3 different marriages), 4 step kids, a very controlling wife and huge personal issues to deal with would make anyone stressed.
> 
> I'm not saying his behavior towards his 4 older kids was right; it wasn't and if I was his daughter I wouldn't be very welcoming to him but I'm not and I can see things from a different perspective, probably a more objective one. All I'm saying is that there is a reason behind his behavior, IMHO, that doesn't offer an excuse of course but it does offer an explanation.



Pretty much my thoughts on it too


----------



## Chanelconvert

She's gorgeous. But why does Noah's fling on the film notebook keeps popping in my head?


----------



## Chanelconvert

Chanelconvert said:


> She's gorgeous. But why does Noah's fling on the film notebook keeps popping in my head?






	

		
			
		

		
	
photo courtesy of google images.


----------



## momtok

schadenfreude said:


> The more I think about it, the more it rubs me the wrong way. When you become a parent, you are agreeing to set aside your needs/desires in favor of what's in the best interest for your kids. Not everyone can or is willing do so, and there's nothing wrong with that, but you've got to be honest about it. To be fair, he seemed to hesitate about parenthood so he had to have known deep down he didn't have it in him -- but then why do it again? And again? And again? _How_ many kids does he have?
> 
> The nail in the coffin is that he doesn't seem to show much regret or remorse. It seems like he was more interested in sitting around feeling sorry for himself in a pity party for one (despite having a charmed life and tremendous success) than being a parent. I suppose that could be the way the article was written, but the OTT way he chose to debut Caitlyn (boobs! bustiers! red lips! Porsches! gowns! glitter!) just throws it in his kids' faces even more. SMH. Those kids are better off without a "parent" like that.



Amen.  This, all the way.


----------



## momtok

DesigningStyle said:


> You are so right.  I am not going to walk on "egg shells" in a gossip thread.  None of us should.
> 
> 
> I remember that too.  Self-absorbed is an understatement.
> 
> 
> Jenner is who is Jenner is.  Changing a name, changing a gender does NOT change the person.
> 
> 
> That is exactly what Jenner is trying to do.  Poof.  It is all gone.  This is who I am now.  Nope it doesn't work that way.  Sorry.



And these too.  +1  Especially the "egg shells" comment.  Celebrities are skewered in these gossip threads for an uncounted plethora of decisions, situations, and yes, physical appearance issues, that are all certainly mirrored at some point within the great mass of tpf participants.  (Quick example, I just read about Kim Kardashian's ankles while pregnant.)  So yes, the "egg shells" comment is spot on.  Whether that's a plus or minus for this section, is another topic.  But consistency is only fair.


----------



## Coco Belle

If anyone feels they're walking on eggshells, that's odd. Lots of people think Caitlyn was and is a ****ty person. They are free to say that here. I can't argue with that.

However, if you're asking questions that directly relate to the science of gender and sex, then you're going to get answers that are factual and that may challenge your cultural assumptions about gender and sex. That's not anyone policing the gossip, that's just people sharing factual stuff.

On the topic of the parenting issues etc... I think Bruce Jenner was a sh!t poor parent. I think it would be hard to find someone who thinks the opposite. I don't doubt that this was at least partly a result of Olympic athlete status [being encouraged from an extremely early age to focus completely on your own body and achievements] + gender dysphoria [having a fundamental secret from an extremely early age, one that you believe will cause people to hate, reject or even kill you, that you can never speak of]. 

Your chances of being a whole, functioning person when that's the pressure you're under, pretty much from birth, are slim. It's an enormous shame.

I think that many men (i.e. human beings who are raised as men, have masculine cultural expectations thrust upon them, etc.) never develop even the most basic vocabulary of emotion that women do.

Added to that, you have the Olympic athlete thing: strive for your own victory, deny any pain, push through every obstacle, if you quit you're worth nothing, a single misstep makes all that effort worthless...

Added to that, when you spend your life thinking you are loathsome, objectionable, easily discarded, fundamentally broken, laughable, embarrassing, even so rage-inducing that some would want to torture and kill you (because you are gender dysphoric)...

how difficult it must be to come close to your children and really be there for them. The trust and intimacy issues must be crushing. Is it even possible to have a whole "self" when you've spent 60 years denying your self, and feeling that the world would hate you if they really knew you? If you're fundamentally "not-whole", is it possible for you to make measured, reasonable decisions about how many children to have, and how to treat them? I'm not sure.

I can imagine Bruce trying over and over, making promises to himself that this time he would get it right, etc... I come from an abusive home and I have made the same promises to myself on a smaller scale, when it comes to raising my son.

I just think it's sad. Not saying that I think Caitlyn is a saint - you can be a terrible, selfish, horrible person and still have terrible, regrettable things happen to you through no fault of your own. I just think the whole thing is extremely complex.


----------



## ebonyone

He claims since he was five he has known he wanted to be female . He is doing all these things too look like a woman yet will keep his penis so he can sleep with women because he is not attracted to men. If he wants to be a woman then go all the way and be one don't try to cover both bases.


----------



## exotikittenx

Thank you, Coco Belle, for putting it so eloquently.  

Yes,  I never said people couldn't ask questions or meant to be "policing" anyone.  I was just trying to instill some thought, compassion, and consideration into a delicate subject.  My point was simply to get people to think about what they are saying and how it may translate.  I was not the one who asked general questions about people who are trans*; others brought those questions up and I found it odd that they didn't seem to like the responses that were aimed at promoting more understanding of what it means to be transgender, scientifically and emotionally.  They still responded with, "Well, this is my opinion".  Okay, and so it is.

To whomever posted suggesting that I go on a crusade in the Kim K. thread, well, I am not going to do that, but I don't agree with tearing apart someone's looks publicly, either.  If you go back through perhaps thousands of pages of the gossip and nasty comments, I'm pretty sure I've already said it somewhere, anyway.  Lol.   I realize this is a gossip forum, but the subject of transgenderism was brought up in here, and it is something I feel strongly about, even if it is a gossip thread.  I can't be bothered to care if people are commenting on Bruce's flawed character traits or parenting, and so forth, but when I see misconceptions about a section of society that is still marginalized, invisible, and lacking proper rights and support, I cannot sit back silently, no matter what the forum.


----------



## Eva1991

Coco Belle said:


> If anyone feels they're walking on eggshells, that's odd. Lots of people think Caitlyn was and is a ****ty person. They are free to say that here. I can't argue with that.
> 
> However, if you're asking questions that directly relate to the science of gender and sex, then you're going to get answers that are factual and that may challenge your cultural assumptions about gender and sex. That's not anyone policing the gossip, that's just people sharing factual stuff.
> 
> On the topic of the parenting issues etc... I think Bruce Jenner was a sh!t poor parent. I think it would be hard to find someone who thinks the opposite. I don't doubt that this was at least partly a result of Olympic athlete status [being encouraged from an extremely early age to focus completely on your own body and achievements] + gender dysphoria [having a fundamental secret from an extremely early age, one that you believe will cause people to hate, reject or even kill you, that you can never speak of].
> 
> Your chances of being a whole, functioning person when that's the pressure you're under, pretty much from birth, are slim. It's an enormous shame.
> 
> I think that many men (i.e. human beings who are raised as men, have masculine cultural expectations thrust upon them, etc.) never develop even the most basic vocabulary of emotion that women do.
> 
> Added to that, you have the Olympic athlete thing: strive for your own victory, deny any pain, push through every obstacle, if you quit you're worth nothing, a single misstep makes all that effort worthless...
> 
> Added to that, when you spend your life thinking you are loathsome, objectionable, easily discarded, fundamentally broken, laughable, embarrassing, even so rage-inducing that some would want to torture and kill you (because you are gender dysphoric)...
> 
> how difficult it must be to come close to your children and really be there for them. The trust and intimacy issues must be crushing. Is it even possible to have a whole "self" when you've spent 60 years denying your self, and feeling that the world would hate you if they really knew you? If you're fundamentally "not-whole", is it possible for you to make measured, reasonable decisions about how many children to have, and how to treat them? I'm not sure.
> 
> I can imagine Bruce trying over and over, making promises to himself that this time he would get it right, etc... I come from an abusive home and I have made the same promises to myself on a smaller scale, when it comes to raising my son.
> 
> I just think it's sad. Not saying that I think Caitlyn is a saint - you can be a terrible, selfish, horrible person and still have terrible, regrettable things happen to you through no fault of your own. I just think the whole thing is extremely complex.



+1000

As Bruce, he had to deal with a lot of things going on in his life and inside his head. Now, as Caitlyn, she's free to be who she is without hiding any more and she has the chance to build a new relationship with her kids. There's no way to fix the mistakes she made in the past, when she was stil Bruce, but she can try to become a better parent starting from now. There are no more excuses.


----------



## tweegy

ebonyone said:


> He claims since he was five he has known he wanted to be female . He is doing all these things too look like a woman yet will keep his penis so he can sleep with women because he is not attracted to men. If he wants to be a woman then go all the way and be one don't try to cover both bases.




Didn't he say he was gonna go all the way on one of the interviews or did I misinterpret?


----------



## zippie

ebonyone said:


> He claims since he was five he has known he wanted to be female . He is doing all these things too look like a woman yet will keep his penis so he can sleep with women because he is not attracted to men. If he wants to be a woman then go all the way and be one don't try to cover both bases.


 


The part about him being attracted to women, well, I think he will eventually end up with men.  Time will tell.  He hinted to that towards the end of the Sawyer interview.


----------



## paisley*

ebonyone said:


> He claims since he was five he has known he wanted to be female . He is doing all these things too look like a woman yet will keep his penis so he can sleep with women because he is not attracted to men. If he wants to be a woman then go all the way and be one don't try to cover both bases.




Why is it anyone else's business what genitals a person has? How do you know who she plans to be intimate with? 
Are you saying a woman born with male genitals cannot have Sex? 
Or a man born with woman genitals cannot have sex? No one gets to tell anyone how their genitals should appear lol. 
Why does this even bother you?


----------



## jclaybo

tweegy said:


> I know not everyone is the same..
> 
> Everyone circumstance is different. From folks I've encountered in similar stances they knew very early in life. I do think that in most times it is more than a mere choice.
> 
> And they can provide more insight than Caitlyn did.


I agree with you Tweegy and I think there is more to when Bruce at the time sat down with Diane he skipped some years of his life and when she brought up his father that really changed his whole demeanor. I cant quite put my finger on it but Caitlyn looks happy now and I pray she is still seeking help for anything that is binding her from her past


----------



## bag-mania

Why is there all this concern about the kids? Bruce and Kris are both self-absorbed people. It stands to reason they raised self-absorbed children. I wouldn't assume that the kids were sensitive, fragile souls who were longing for parents more involved in their lives. The kids from Bruce's previous marriage were shortchanged, but how is that any different from the thousands of other kids of divorced parents who watch dad's second family get all the attention?


----------



## DesigningStyle

Am I the only one that doesn't believe that in order for someone to find their true self (as Jenner now says he has) one does not require cosmetic surgery or body modification?  We are not our bodies.  We are who we are inside.


----------



## Junkenpo

In some of the pics, Caitlyn looks very feminine to me, I wouldn't think twice about whether she was a woman or not...and in others I get "statuesque" vibes that remind me very much of Patrick Swayze in _To Wong Foo_, if Swayze had had a blow out instead of a beehive. 

I think it's neat to live in a time where this generates discussion and education instead of just denunciation.


----------



## Coco Belle

DesigningStyle said:


> Am I the only one that doesn't believe that in order for someone to find their true self (as Jenner now says he has) one does not require cosmetic surgery or body modification? * We are not our bodies.  We are who we are inside.*



While this may possibly be true on a philosophical level, human culture (Western culture in particular) does not currently support this idea in practice. 

Taking surgical measures in order to more comfortably inhabit a different identity is a direct response to Western ideas about how women (and men) ought to appear in order to be respected and treated well.


----------



## momtok

Coco Belle said:


> *If anyone feels they're walking on eggshells, that's odd.* Lots of people think Caitlyn was and is a ****ty person. They are free to say that here. I can't argue with that.



Well I do agree with you that no one _should_ feel like they're walking on eggshells, simply because as long as everything _else_ is fair game in the gossip section, then there should be no eggshells required in this particular thread either.  Like I said, that appears to be the nature of the sub-forum, and it is what it is.  I am certainly not trying to police either ... quite the opposite, in fact.   I am in _no_ way suggesting that the gossip section need change, and I emphasize that.  But it _does_ cut in all directions, regardless of who's 'sensibilities' get stepped on.  It is what it is.


----------



## aliceinwl

Coco Belle said:


> If anyone feels they're walking on eggshells, that's odd. Lots of people think Caitlyn was and is a ****ty person. They are free to say that here. I can't argue with that.
> 
> 
> 
> However, if you're asking questions that directly relate to the science of gender and sex, then you're going to get answers that are factual and that may challenge your cultural assumptions about gender and sex. That's not anyone policing the gossip, that's just people sharing factual stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> On the topic of the parenting issues etc... I think Bruce Jenner was a sh!t poor parent. I think it would be hard to find someone who thinks the opposite. I don't doubt that this was at least partly a result of Olympic athlete status [being encouraged from an extremely early age to focus completely on your own body and achievements] + gender dysphoria [having a fundamental secret from an extremely early age, one that you believe will cause people to hate, reject or even kill you, that you can never speak of].
> 
> 
> 
> Your chances of being a whole, functioning person when that's the pressure you're under, pretty much from birth, are slim. It's an enormous shame.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that many men (i.e. human beings who are raised as men, have masculine cultural expectations thrust upon them, etc.) never develop even the most basic vocabulary of emotion that women do.
> 
> 
> 
> Added to that, you have the Olympic athlete thing: strive for your own victory, deny any pain, push through every obstacle, if you quit you're worth nothing, a single misstep makes all that effort worthless...
> 
> 
> 
> Added to that, when you spend your life thinking you are loathsome, objectionable, easily discarded, fundamentally broken, laughable, embarrassing, even so rage-inducing that some would want to torture and kill you (because you are gender dysphoric)...
> 
> 
> 
> how difficult it must be to come close to your children and really be there for them. The trust and intimacy issues must be crushing. Is it even possible to have a whole "self" when you've spent 60 years denying your self, and feeling that the world would hate you if they really knew you? If you're fundamentally "not-whole", is it possible for you to make measured, reasonable decisions about how many children to have, and how to treat them? I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> I can imagine Bruce trying over and over, making promises to himself that this time he would get it right, etc... I come from an abusive home and I have made the same promises to myself on a smaller scale, when it comes to raising my son.
> 
> 
> 
> I just think it's sad. Not saying that I think Caitlyn is a saint - you can be a terrible, selfish, horrible person and still have terrible, regrettable things happen to you through no fault of your own. I just think the whole thing is extremely complex.







Eva1991 said:


> I never said he would be a better parent had he not had the gender  issues. I said we don't know what kind of parent he would be. He could  be a better one, a worse one or still absent. I also think that Kris  played a huge part in his parenting and influenced him a lot. Her focus  was the Kardashian business and not how to build a stable family life or  how to merge their pre-existing families together. Having 6 kids of your own (from 3 different marriages), 4 step kids, a very controlling wife and huge personal issues to deal with would make anyone stressed.
> 
> I'm not saying his behavior towards his 4 older kids was right; it wasn't and if I was his daughter I wouldn't be very welcoming to him but I'm not and I can see things from a different perspective, probably a more objective one. All I'm saying is that there is a reason behind his behavior, IMHO, that doesn't offer an excuse of course but it does offer an explanation.




Great posts, I so agree!


----------



## Sassys

Coco Belle said:


> If anyone feels they're walking on eggshells, that's odd. Lots of people think Caitlyn was and is a ****ty person. They are free to say that here. I can't argue with that.
> 
> However, if you're asking questions that directly relate to the science of gender and sex, then you're going to get answers that are factual and that may challenge your cultural assumptions about gender and sex. That's not anyone policing the gossip, that's just people sharing factual stuff.
> 
> On the topic of the parenting issues etc... I think Bruce Jenner was a sh!t poor parent. I think it would be hard to find someone who thinks the opposite. I don't doubt that this was at least partly a result of Olympic athlete status [being encouraged from an extremely early age to focus completely on your own body and achievements] + gender dysphoria [having a fundamental secret from an extremely early age, one that you believe will cause people to hate, reject or even kill you, that you can never speak of].
> 
> Your chances of being a whole, functioning person when that's the pressure you're under, pretty much from birth, are slim. It's an enormous shame.
> 
> I think that many men (i.e. human beings who are raised as men, have masculine cultural expectations thrust upon them, etc.) never develop even the most basic vocabulary of emotion that women do.
> 
> Added to that, you have the Olympic athlete thing: strive for your own victory, deny any pain, push through every obstacle, if you quit you're worth nothing, a single misstep makes all that effort worthless...
> 
> Added to that, when you spend your life thinking you are loathsome, objectionable, easily discarded, fundamentally broken, laughable, embarrassing, even so rage-inducing that some would want to torture and kill you (because you are gender dysphoric)...
> 
> how difficult it must be to come close to your children and really be there for them. The trust and intimacy issues must be crushing. Is it even possible to have a whole "self" when you've spent 60 years denying your self, and feeling that the world would hate you if they really knew you? If you're fundamentally "not-whole", is it possible for you to make measured, reasonable decisions about how many children to have, and how to treat them? I'm not sure.
> 
> I can imagine Bruce trying over and over, making promises to himself that this time he would get it right, etc... I come from an abusive home and I have made the same promises to myself on a smaller scale, when it comes to raising my son.
> 
> I just think it's sad. Not saying that I think Caitlyn is a saint - you can be a terrible, selfish, horrible person and still have terrible, regrettable things happen to you through no fault of your own. I just think the whole thing is extremely complex.


 
Great Post!!


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

If his kids can forgive him, so can I. People are not perfect and this does not excuse his being completely absent from his kids' lives, but trying to understand helps greatly. My parents were not always there. They were preoccupied with other stressful situations, my mother was depressed a lot, and they fought and missed many important events in my life and paid me little attention. I was/am resentful and it has affected my relationship with them. But now much older, I know they regret it and wish they would have done things differently (don't we all!). They show they do all the time, now that things have calmed down and we've grown. So it doesn't excuse their behavior and I will forever be affected by what they did/did not do, but it does help to understand. Holding on to negative feelings is never healthy, and you can't always get rid of them, but it's better for everyone to at least try and move on and make things better going forward.


----------



## NYC Chicky

There's proof the KUWK discussion Caitlyn / Bruce had was staged 
http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...y-kardashian-lies-kuwtk-fake-exposed-therapy/


----------



## Sassys

NYC Chicky said:


> There's proof the KUWK discussion Caitlyn / Bruce had was staged
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...y-kardashian-lies-kuwtk-fake-exposed-therapy/


 

This is why Bruce seemed like he didn't care what they thought and did not comfort them (the younger girls). It was fake. They already had this discussion in private off cameras.


----------



## bag-princess

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Timbaland said the same thing on FB. It's one thing to call her Bruce by accident and out of habit but to flat out refuse to call her by the new name is obnoxious. Common decency is too much to ask for apparently





i can see where they are coming from.   i mean - doesn't he still have his berries and twig???  that has not been removed yet has it? most people are saying that if not and he still has it then he is a man. period.  he may feel differently inside but.....yea. ok.


----------



## sdkitty

zippie said:


> The part about him being attracted to women, well, I think he will eventually end up with men.  Time will tell.  He hinted to that towards the end of the Sawyer interview.


I thought during the Sawyer interview he said he has been  - up to now - attracted to women and he didn't know what the future would hold in that respect.
I thought I caught something on the radio saying he has had the gender reassignment surgery but he can't disclose it yet as it's part of the TV show.  I may have misunderstood but if that's the case, then using his male equipment as someone here asked about would not be an option.


----------



## zippie

sdkitty said:


> I thought during the Sawyer interview he said he has been  - up to now - attracted to women and he didn't know what the future would hold in that respect.
> I thought I caught something on the radio saying he has had the gender reassignment surgery but he can't disclose it yet as it's part of the TV show.  I may have misunderstood but if that's the case, then using his male equipment as someone here asked about would not be an option.


 


Yes, that is pretty much how he said it.


----------



## VickyB

DesigningStyle said:


> I think it is deeper than that.  This entire VF article needs analysis by a psychiatrist.  It is very telling of much deeper issues than just being gender confused.



ITA. There are much more heavier issues at play here.


----------



## gracekelly

I believe he recently stated that the male package is staying in place.  I think he has been attracted to men all along.  He will never admit to the media/public if he had any experiences like that.  I am waiting for the pond scum to surface.


----------



## Sassys

gracekelly said:


> I believe he recently stated that the male package is staying in place.  I think he has been attracted to men all along.  He will never admit to the media/public if he had any experiences like that.  I am waiting for the pond scum to surface.


 
The "powers that be" in the Transgenger world said, it is recommended you wait a year after all the other surgeries, before your have the major genital surgery.


----------



## GaitreeS

Sassys said:


> This is why Bruce seemed like he didn't care what they thought and did not comfort them (the younger girls). It was fake. They already had this discussion in private off cameras.


 
OBVI. I didn't think there was anyone who thought they were having this talk for the first time.


----------



## Encore Hermes

NYC Chicky said:


> There's proof the KUWK discussion Caitlyn / Bruce had was staged
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...y-kardashian-lies-kuwtk-fake-exposed-therapy/



I think the youngest girls have known for years from the time they learned what keeping a secret  meant


----------



## Sassys

This is because Kris is no longer in charge of her money

Caitlyn Jenner's more generous and pays for private jets: How star is bonding  with mother Esther, 89, following transition from 'jerk' Bruce to a caring woman

Caitlyn Jenner's  new identity is a welcome change for one  family member in  particular.
On  Tuesday, Vanity Fair released an extended interview  with the star's 89-year-old mother Esther, who said she believes she can have a  'better relationship' with Caitlyn than previously with Bruce, 65.
'She's a better  friend,' the Idaho resident said.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ew-daughter-generous-Bruce.html#ixzz3bvXlxpW4


----------



## guccimamma

i'm still shaking my head about all of this.


----------



## tweegy

Sassys said:


> This is because Kris is no longer in charge of her money
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner's more generous and pays for private jets: How star is bonding  with mother Esther, 89, following transition from 'jerk' Bruce to a caring woman
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner's  new identity is a welcome change for one  family member in  particular.
> On  Tuesday, Vanity Fair released an extended interview  with the star's 89-year-old mother Esther, who said she believes she can have a  'better relationship' with Caitlyn than previously with Bruce, 65.
> 'She's a better  friend,' the Idaho resident said.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ew-daughter-generous-Bruce.html#ixzz3bvXlxpW4




See, there they go like its a entirely new person. It's all one person..how does kris holding the finances negate then Bruce from connecting with his mom? 

[emoji53] am I not understanding something? I new to lay down this is too much for my pea mind to process...


----------



## Sassys

tweegy said:


> See, there they go like its a entirely new person. It's all one person..how does kris holding the finances negate then Bruce from connecting with his mom?
> 
> [emoji53] am I not understanding something? I new to lay down this is too much for my pea mind to process...


 
I read that Kris was not nice to her mother in law and never allowed her around. Bruce was weak when it came to Kris.


----------



## Jayne1

DesigningStyle said:


> Am I the only one that doesn't believe that in order for someone to find their true self (as Jenner now says he has) one does not require cosmetic surgery or body modification?  We are not our bodies.  We are who we are inside.


There's so much attention paid to makeup, nail polish and clothes. I wish a professional would tell us about that.


----------



## tweegy

Sassys said:


> I read that Kris was not nice to her mother in law and never allowed her around. Bruce was weak when it came to Kris.




Watch Caitlyn's gonna pin a lot of stuff on kris. 

Whether she was not nice, how does that affect then Bruce from being nice to his own mom. That doesn't make sense. It was ultimately his decision to how he himself treated his mom. Kris could be the devil from the west. But that doesn't explain Bruce's actions.


----------



## Jayne1

Junkenpo said:


> In some of the pics, Caitlyn looks very feminine to me, I wouldn't think twice about whether she was a woman or not...and in others I get "statuesque" vibes...


The Vanity Fair pictures are overly photoshopped, overly blurred and overly done, with makeup, extensions, etc. We saw what Bruce looked like on the K show. Caitlyn can only do so much with makeup and plastic surgery, she's a senior citizen, who smokes and spent many years in the sun.

I think we cannot go by some Annie Leibovitz photos in a magazine, or even those lovely filters the Ks use on their TV show.


----------



## bag-mania

Jayne1 said:


> The Vanity Fair pictures are overly photoshopped, overly blurred and overly done, with makeup, extensions, etc. We saw what Bruce looked like on the K show. Caitlyn can only do so much with makeup and plastic surgery, she's a senior citizen, who smokes and spent many years in the sun.
> 
> I think we cannot go by some Annie Leibovitz photos in a magazine, or even those lovely filters the Ks use on their TV show.



Yeah, I think Leibovitz must have slapped about a 1/2" of vaseline on the lens to get that soft focus effect. 

Still, most celebrity photos are heavily doctored. We will get a more accurate look when the paps start waiting around Caitlyn's favorite Starbucks again.


----------



## sdkitty

Jayne1 said:


> The Vanity Fair pictures are overly photoshopped, overly blurred and overly done, with makeup, extensions, etc. We saw what Bruce looked like on the K show. Caitlyn can only do so much with makeup and plastic surgery, she's a senior citizen, who smokes and spent many years in the sun.
> 
> I think we cannot go by some Annie Leibovitz photos in a magazine, or even those lovely filters the Ks use on their TV show.


I agree
That picture of her in the red dress in the car is particularly beautiful but I don't think it's a very accurate depiction of what she looks like


----------



## Eva1991

tweegy said:


> See, there they go like its a entirely new person. It's all one person..how does kris holding the finances negate then Bruce from connecting with his mom?
> 
> [emoji53] am I not understanding something? I new to lay down this is too much for my pea mind to process...



Caitlyn is not a new person, you're right. However, her being finally who she always wanted to be and feeling comfortable in her own skin _could_ result to an improvement of her relationship with her mother and her children, especially the 4 odler ones that she neglected the most when she was living as a male. When you're feeling comfortable with yourself you _tend_ to treat others better. It remains to be seen if that's the case with Caitlyn.


----------



## dangerouscurves

DesigningStyle said:


> Am I the only one that doesn't believe that in order for someone to find their true self (as Jenner now says he has) one does not require cosmetic surgery or body modification?  We are not our bodies.  We are who we are inside.




And Caitlyn is a woman inside. You'll never understand this and so won't I. But if that makes her happy who are we to judge?


----------



## DesigningStyle

dangerouscurves said:


> And Caitlyn is a woman inside. You'll never understand this and so won't I. But if that makes her happy *who are we to judge*?



No judging. Just gossiping!


----------



## Eva1991

Jayne1 said:


> The Vanity Fair pictures are overly photoshopped, overly blurred and overly done, with makeup, extensions, etc. We saw what Bruce looked like on the K show. Caitlyn can only do so much with makeup and plastic surgery, she's a senior citizen, who smokes and spent many years in the sun.
> 
> I think we cannot go by some Annie Leibovitz photos in a magazine, or even those lovely filters the Ks use on their TV show.



I think the VF pictures were taken after Caitlyn had some sort of plastic surgery to effeminate her facial features. The K special was probably shot before the surgery but I have no idea. You're right about her being a senior citizen and a smoker. In real life, she'll probably look like most women who're 65 and smoke do, I guess. Her body though is out of this world! Being athletic did wonders because she looks very toned and in perfect shape.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ebonyone said:


> He claims since he was five he has known he wanted to be female . He is doing all these things too look like a woman yet will keep his penis so he can sleep with women because he is not attracted to men. If he wants to be a woman then go all the way and be one don't try to cover both bases.



Exactly. He wants his cake and eat it too!
His confusion confuses me. One day he's keeping it, the next day he's cutting it off.
If he wants to live his life as a woman then do it, but don't call yourself a full blown female while you're giving the appearances to the public you're a drag queen or transsexual.
I'm starting to think he really doesn't know what he/she is.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

It wouldn't surprise me to find out Caitlyn's head was photoshopped on someone else's body. 
None of them can be trusted.


----------



## bag-mania

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm starting to think he really doesn't know what he/she is.



Ding ding ding. We have a winner!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Watch Caitlyn's gonna pin a lot of stuff on kris.
> 
> Whether she was not nice, how does that affect then Bruce from being nice to his own mom. That doesn't make sense. It was ultimately his decision to how he himself treated his mom. Kris could be the devil from the west. But that doesn't explain Bruce's actions.



 It's too easy for him to place the blame on others than it is to own up to his decisions and choices. No one made him marry multiple times and have several children. He knew exactly what he was doing.


----------



## GaitreeS

These are some of the reasons why I will never understand why people refer to him as a hero. Selfish, inconsiderate are words I would use to describe him/her. His gender has nothing to do with it. 

I'm baffled by people who support the K Klan #FRAUD


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> i'm still shaking my head about all of this.



I've wondered to myself what he would have done had he felt black, instead of female. Think about it....:afrocool:


----------



## Coach Lover Too

GaitreeS said:


> These are some of the reasons why I will never understand why people refer to him as a hero. Selfish, inconsiderate are words I would use to describe him/her. His gender has nothing to do with it.
> 
> I'm baffled by people who support the K Klan #FRAUD



I said that weeks ago and boy did I catch hell on here.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Coach Lover Too said:


> I said that weeks ago and boy did I catch hell on here.



No one ever said he was a hero. I never agreed with that word to describe him (and many others). But what he did was definitely courageous, regardless of his past or if he was paid.


----------



## tweegy

GaitreeS said:


> These are some of the reasons why I will never understand why people refer to him as a hero. Selfish, inconsiderate are words I would use to describe him/her. His gender has nothing to do with it.
> 
> I'm baffled by people who support the K Klan #FRAUD




Granted.

But I understand why he is deemed heroic. There are a lot of people who struggle with these types of issues. I will say, after the overwhelming support she got yesterday it would have helped and inspired  a lot of people going thru that.


----------



## GaitreeS

Coach Lover Too said:


> I said that weeks ago and boy did I catch hell on here.


 

I remember


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Kitties Are Cute said:


> No one ever said he was a hero. I never agreed with that word to describe him (and many others). But what he did was definitely courageous, regardless of his past or if he was paid.



I beg to differ. You may not have called him a hero, but a lot of other people did. 
I even commented that my definition of hero must be different from other people's definition.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Inspiration would be a better word. Hero, I'll save that word for those fighting for our freedom or children struggling with cancer. Not Bruce Jenner. Not Caitlyn Jenner.


----------



## gail13

Can't imagine that many women will be attracted to her, since Caitlyn has said she isn't gay?  I mean who will she date, I'm confused?  As much as I find Kris obnoxious, I can't imagine how embarrassing it would be to have your newly divorced hubby going thru all this.  And I don't believe all those loving tweets from the family either, but what choice do they have?


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Coach Lover Too said:


> I beg to differ. You may not have called him a hero, but a lot of other people did.
> I even commented that my definition of hero must be different from other people's definition.



Other articles and commenters on different sites definitely called him one. I don't remember many or any calling one him here, but I don't know because I don't follow the threads religiously. I don't think he is a hero. I think that word is thrown around way too much, along with "bully".


----------



## Ms.parker123

I think they should have used a different term rather than Hero. However I can see why they would say something like that, because he's a public figure and finally embraced his truth. He's definitely not a hero, but I do applaud him/her for finally stepping up, owning it, and saying f*** it to others opinion.


----------



## GaitreeS

tweegy said:


> Granted.
> 
> But I understand why he is deemed heroic. There are a lot of people who struggle with these types of issues. I will say, after the overwhelming support she got yesterday it would have helped and inspired  a lot of people going thru that.


 
Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to someone like Bruce/Caitlyn. We all have things in our lives that we have to deal with and still be kind to our friends, family, children, spouse etc. It can't be said I was a crappy human being because I was dealing with my gender issues, that sounds like an excuse to me.

Also if people choose to support him that's great. I don't and I have issue saying that. I care Bruce/Caitlyn as much as I care about any human who is not in my family, but I still think he doesn't know who he wants to be. I'm going to say something and I REALLY don't mean to be offensive, so I'm apologising in advance to anyone who might be offended.

Bruce can never truly be a woman. He will never truly know the joy and the sorry of being a woman. Women are wonderfully intricate creation, we are not all the same, but there is a something so unique and powerful about women that I truly admire and love. Being a woman is more than physical appearance, hair, make up, clothes, shoes that's just a part of it. We can't reduce womanhood to mere physical aspects. Whether you believe in evolution or creation each woman presents a certain power (if she knows it or not) and mystery that I think cannot be replicated.

#my2cents #justmyopinion #Iloveyouall

Exits thread.


----------



## JetSetGo!

I am not following this story closely simply it doesn't spark all that much interest. It's not THAT big of a deal to me. I'm indifferent. In my opinion, people need to focus on themselves rather than concerning themselves about what others should and shouldn't do. Aside from that, I do hope that BJ/CJ's public transformation serves as inspiration to others who are living their lives in shame.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Eva1991 said:


> I think the VF pictures were taken after Caitlyn had some sort of plastic surgery to effeminate her facial features. The K special was probably shot before the surgery but I have no idea. You're right about her being a senior citizen and a smoker. In real life, she'll probably look like most women who're 65 and smoke do, I guess. Her body though is out of this world! Being athletic did wonders because she looks very toned and in perfect shape.



The facial feminization surgery took place on March 15.  The interview started filming the first week of February.

Regarding her being athletic and toned and in perfect shape.  That is because she has a man's body.  There is a lot of information on the web devoted to "how MTF Transgenders can Lose Muscle and Gain Fat through dieting"  So I am sure the body will change over the years.


----------



## bag-mania

gail13 said:


> Can't imagine that many women will be attracted to her, since Caitlyn has said she isn't gay?  I mean who will she date, I'm confused?  As much as I find Kris obnoxious, I can't imagine how embarrassing it would be to have your newly divorced hubby going thru all this.  And I don't believe all those loving tweets from the family either, but what choice do they have?



We don't know for sure yet that Caitlyn will date anyone. It wouldn't surprise me if she was in no hurry to become involved in relationships. That would be smart actually. She's still figuring herself out.


----------



## Avril

Still no word from Kris Jenner .... :tumbleweed:


----------



## TC1

tweegy said:


> Watch Caitlyn's gonna pin a lot of stuff on kris.
> 
> Whether she was not nice, how does that affect then Bruce from being nice to his own mom. That doesn't make sense. It was ultimately his decision to how he himself treated his mom. Kris could be the devil from the west. But that doesn't explain Bruce's actions.


 
I find it very convenient that Kris will be blamed for "Bruce never being able to be himself"..Well, he sure isn't giving her any kudos for making him a millionaire which has now afforded the luxury to pay for all these surgeries, buy a lovely home in a secluded area...etc.
I think it's very selfish to try to place the blame on others when you went along for the rise as long as the $$$$$$$$$ were all there.


----------



## usmcwifey

I definitely think they misused the word HERO....he might be an INSPIRATION to others but a hero no....my hubbies friend who died from a grenade while going back to get his friend, now he's a hero...an act of selflessness ....


----------



## TC1

usmcwifey said:


> I definitely think they misused the word HERO....he might be an INSPIRATION to others but a hero no....my hubbies friend who died from a grenade while going back to get his friend, now he's a hero...an act of selflessness ....


 
I agree, the term HERO shouldn't be applied..You didn't see anyone throwing around the word hero when Chaz Bono transitioned. SMH.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> Exactly. He wants his cake and eat it too!
> His confusion confuses me. One day he's keeping it, the next day he's cutting it off.
> If he wants to live his life as a woman then do it, but don't call yourself a full blown female while you're giving the appearances to the public you're a drag queen or transsexual.
> I'm starting to think he really doesn't know what he/she is.



Except a large percentage of transgender don't go all the way so her keeping it isnt any different than what other transgender people do. She is still a she with or without it. For someone who likes to use Chaz Bono as an example you didn't exactly learn anything from him


----------



## uhpharm01

Avril said:


> Still no word from Kris Jenner .... :tumbleweed:



Yep


----------



## bag-mania

TC1 said:


> I agree, the term HERO shouldn't be applied..You didn't see anyone throwing around the word hero when Chaz Bono transitioned. SMH.



It's different. Chaz was never famous in his own right. He was only known for being the child of two famous people. Bruce was incredibly famous in his day and was a "hero" as an athlete as well.


----------



## tweegy

TC1 said:


> I find it very convenient that Kris will be blamed for "Bruce never being able to be himself"..Well, he sure isn't giving her any kudos for making him a millionaire which has now afforded the luxury to pay for all these surgeries, buy a lovely home in a secluded area...etc.
> I think it's very selfish to try to place the blame on others when you went along for the rise as long as the $$$$$$$$$ were all there.




Correct. Kris isn't a saint by any means but she is being a scape goat for a lot of things that pertain to him now her.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Sassys said:


> I read that Kris was not nice to her mother in law and never allowed her around. *Bruce was weak when it came to Kris*.



Or Kris had a lot of home surveillance video captured and he knew it.


----------



## skarsbabe

Coach Lover Too said:


> It wouldn't surprise me to find out Caitlyn's head was photoshopped on someone else's body.
> None of them can be trusted.


this. and I'm sorry but if he's got a d*ck, it's a dude.


----------



## skarsbabe

Coach Lover Too said:


> I've wondered to myself what he would have done had he felt black, instead of female. Think about it....:afrocool:


I think that would have been more interesting!


----------



## usmcwifey

bag-mania said:


> It's different. Chaz was never famous in his own right. He was only known for being the child of two famous people. Bruce was incredibly famous in his day and was a "hero" as an athlete as well.




Again ...they misused the term hero for athletes as well ...maybe it's just because I've seen and been around really people who have actually gave up or lost their lives to save others ....plus for the people who it would even remotely matter ...his kids...I doubt they'd call him a hero (maybe to the media)


----------



## bag-mania

^I don't think of sports figures as heroes either. But since the term is  used loosely these days for anyone that other people look up to or  revere, then I guess that's why it could apply.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> It wouldn't surprise me to find out Caitlyn's head was photoshopped on someone else's body.
> None of them can be trusted.


 

SMH, there is video of the shoot.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Re; Hero
I was under the impression the Caitlyn is doing this for herself, and profiting probably handsomely from the magazine, interview.
_ at this point_


*Twitter users call for ESPN to give Arthur Ashe Courage Award to Lauren Hill, not Caitlyn Jenner, at ESPYs *

ESPN did something unexpected on Monday &#8212; they got people to care about the ESPYs.

The network announced Monday afternoon that Caitlyn Jenner would receive the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at next month&#8217;s ESPYs award show in Los Angeles, honoring the person formerly known as Bruce Jenner for "(showing) the courage to embrace a truth that had been hidden for years, and to embark on a journey that may not only give comfort to those facing similar circumstances, but can also help to educate people on the challenges that the transgender community faces," ESPYs executive producer Maura Mandt said in a statement announcing the award.

While Jenner has been celebrated for her choice, ESPN has been criticized for making Jenner its choice.

Many sports fans are accusing ESPN of chasing the day&#8217;s trend and forgetting the not-so-recent past.

College basketball player Lauren Hill, who battled a brain tumor during her freshman year at Mount St. Joseph&#8217;s before dying, is the name being bandied about on Twitter as the person ESPN should have honored on July 15.

&#8220;Glad Jenner is finally able to live life on her own terms, but the Ashe award for courage? Lauren Hill deserves that,&#8221; Cliff Saunders tweeted.

&#8220;While I think it&#8217;s cool @ESPN is awarding Caitlyn Jenner, there was nobody more courageous than Lauren Hill in all of sports,&#8221; Mike Piff tweeted.

&#8220;@ESPYS happy that Jenner is finding peace. But how can you not choose Lauren Hill?&#8221; Total miss in my opinion,&#8221; tweeted Garrett Self.
*Hill dedicated the final months of her life to raising funds to help fight cancer &#8212; she was afflicted with Diffuse Intrinsic Pontine Giloma, a type of brain tumor that normally affects children and has a low cure rate &#8212; and raised more than $1.5 million before she died on April 10.*

While Hill is the name most frequently floated as a Jenner replacement, Hall of Fame Bills quarterback Jim Kelley, a cancer survivor, and O.J. Brigance, the Ravens executive and former linebacker who has ALS, have also been mentioned.

An ESPN spokesperson told the Daily News that the feedback the network has recieved for its Jenner selection has been "overwhelmingly positive."

Leah Still, the daughter of Bengals lineman Devon Still &#8212; whose story, along with Hill&#8217;s, received ample airtime on ESPN &#8212; was also mentioned as a potential recipient, but the Stills will instead receive the Jimmy V Perseverance Award that same night. The network also has the Pat Tillman Award for Service, which was given to U.S. Paralympic gold medal sled hockey player and Purple Heart recipient Josh Sweeney in 2014, the first year it was awarded.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...ng-espy-caitlyn-jenner-fans-article-1.2243748


----------



## bisousx

usmcwifey said:


> Again ...they misused the term hero for athletes as well ...maybe it's just because I've seen and been around really people who have actually gave up or lost their lives to save others ....plus for the people who it would even remotely matter ...his kids...I doubt they'd call him a hero (maybe to the media)



You don't have to give your life to be considered a hero. Sigh. As a usmc wifey as well, I'm tired of people constantly comparing everything in the news to the military. Apples and oranges. Looking up to a person is completely relative to the beholder. What about all of us who consider our parents our heroes? That said, I've never been one to idolize sports icons,  but I could see how all these TG kids living in shame could admire that he was willing to put his story out there.


----------



## SpeedyJC

skarsbabe said:


> this. and I'm sorry but if he's got a d*ck, it's a dude.


 
I actually agree with that, I mean I will address her as Caitlyn and as "her" instead of "he" out of respect for her choice to live as a woman however as long as she is still male down stairs then she is legally a man which only really matters when using restrooms or being put in jail, legal docs, stuff like that.


----------



## AshTx.1

TC1 said:


> I find it very convenient that Kris will be blamed for "Bruce never being able to be himself"..Well, he sure isn't giving her any kudos for making him a millionaire which has now afforded the luxury to pay for all these surgeries, buy a lovely home in a secluded area...etc.
> I think it's very selfish to try to place the blame on others when you went along for the rise as long as the $$$$$$$$$ were all there.



This.


----------



## DesigningStyle

SpeedyJC said:


> I actually agree with that, I mean I will address her as Caitlyn and as "her" instead of "he" out of respect for her choice to live as a woman however as long as she is still male down stairs then she is legally a man which only really matters when using restrooms or being put in jail, legal docs, stuff like that.



Or when donating blood.  When I sit with the Red Cross nurse, the nurse asks how I identify myself.


----------



## SpeedyJC

bisousx said:


> You don't have to give your life to be considered a hero. Sigh. As a usmc wifey as well, I'm tired of people constantly comparing everything in the news to the military. Apples and oranges. Looking up to a person is completely relative to the beholder. What about all of us who consider our parents our heroes? That said, I've never been one to idolize sports icons,  but I could see how all these TG kids living in shame could admire that he was willing to put his story out there.


 
I agree you do not have to give your life to be considered a hero. A hero is such a subjective word. Someone can consider someone else their hero because they saved their life by helping them out of a burning car or by steering them onto to the right path. I think anyone can be someone's hero no matter their occupation.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

bisousx said:


> You don't have to give your life to be considered a hero. Sigh. As a usmc wifey as well, I'm tired of people constantly comparing everything in the news to the military. Apples and oranges. Looking up to a person is completely relative to the beholder. What about all of us who consider our parents our heroes? That said, I've never been one to idolize sports icons,  but I could see how all these TG kids living in shame could admire that he was willing to put his story out there.




Exactly. My mom and dad aren't heroes to everyone but the sacrifices they made for us makes them my siblings and I heroes and I dare anyone to tell us differently. Hero is subjective IMO. Just because Caitlyn is not your hero, doesn't mean she's not a hero to others. Athletes aren't my heroes but I respect that some think they are.


----------



## AshTx.1

GaitreeS said:


> Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to someone like Bruce/Caitlyn. We all have things in our lives that we have to deal with and still be kind to our friends, family, children, spouse etc. It can't be said I was a crappy human being because I was dealing with my gender issues, that sounds like an excuse to me.
> 
> Also if people choose to support him that's great. I don't and I have issue saying that. I care Bruce/Caitlyn as much as I care about any human who is not in my family, but I still think he doesn't know who he wants to be. I'm going to say something and I REALLY don't mean to be offensive, so I'm apologising in advance to anyone who might be offended.
> 
> Bruce can never truly be a woman. He will never truly know the joy and the sorry of being a woman. Women are wonderfully intricate creation, we are not all the same, but there is a something so unique and powerful about women that I truly admire and love. Being a woman is more than physical appearance, hair, make up, clothes, shoes that's just a part of it. We can't reduce womanhood to mere physical aspects. Whether you believe in evolution or creation each woman presents a certain power (if she knows it or not) and mystery that I think cannot be replicated.
> 
> #my2cents #justmyopinion #Iloveyouall
> 
> Exits thread.



Yessssss thank you! To me, Bruce/Caitlyn will always be a faux woman. I will be seen as a bad person for that, or be accused of not understanding. I feel like just because Bruce put on womens clothes, paints his nails,  and changes his name, doesn't make him a woman. He "identifies as a woman." Well ok, but he's still not a woman. It must feel horrible to feel you were born the wrong gender but plastic surgery really can only do so much....I don't have any hate for him or any trans people but I just have a lot of mixed feelings on this whole thing.


----------



## DesigningStyle

he·ro
&#712;hir&#333;/

noun

1.  a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.


----------



## Sassys

skarsbabe said:


> this. and I'm sorry but if he's got a d*ck, it's a dude.


 


SpeedyJC said:


> I actually agree with that, I mean I will address her as Caitlyn and as "her" instead of "he" out of respect for her choice to live as a woman however as long as she is still male down stairs then she is legally a man which only really matters when using restrooms or being put in jail, legal docs, stuff like that.


 
So if a man lost his penis in a freak accident is he now no longer a man?

If a woman no longer has a breast, uterus, ovaries or fallopian tubes, does that mean she is no longer a woman?


----------



## Jayne1

TC1 said:


> I find it very convenient that Kris will be blamed for "Bruce never being able to be himself"..*Well, he sure isn't giving her any kudos for making him a millionaire which has now afforded the luxury to pay for all these surgeries, buy a lovely home in a secluded area...etc.*
> I think it's very selfish to try to place the blame on others when you went along for the rise as long as the $$$$$$$$$ were all there.


CNN was discussing something he said -- although he is doing interviews, cover stories and reality shows to show his true self, he is also doing it for the money because he has a mortgage to pay.  Apparently this is all very lucrative for him and he sees the profit in it.

Luckily, he doesn't have to support anyone but himself, since the kids all have careers and money of their own and no one is going to university or asking him for help with a down payment.


----------



## TC1

I can't seem to believe he'd have a mortgage after being married to Kris. But, whatever..He or she will spin the story however they need to....to justify the need for attention.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

ebonyone said:


> He claims since he was five he has known he wanted to be female . He is doing all these things too look like a woman yet will keep his penis so he can sleep with women because he is not attracted to men. If he wants to be a woman then go all the way and be one don't try to cover both bases.



Who are you to tell someone how to be transgender? Or how to be the right kind of transgender that's acceptable to you? There are many who don't undergo the full surgery for a spectrum of reasons.

This is not a black and white area and there are many well-written posts by people better versed in the surgery than me, right here on this thread


----------



## FreeSpirit71

SpeedyJC said:


> I actually agree with that, I mean I will address her as Caitlyn and as "her" instead of "he" out of respect for her choice to live as a woman however as long as she is still male down stairs then she is legally a man which only really matters when using restrooms or being put in jail, legal docs, stuff like that.



Caitlyn would use the women's restroom.


----------



## Swanky

*Revealed: Bruce Jenner wanted eldest daughter aborted and refused to go to birth but now Caitlyn is making amends *

Bruce Jenner wanted to abort his eldest daughter and was not present for her birth.
The revelation came as the former Olympian introduced his female identity, Caitlyn, on the cover of Vanity Fair magazine.
The star's daughter Casey, 34, told the publication that she did not find out her father didn't want her until she was 13.
'I never knew he wasn't at my birth until I was about 13 years old and we were arguing on the phone about money,' she told the magazine. 'He kept saying, "You dont know the whole story". 

Starting over: Caitlyn Jenner's painful past as Bruce was explored in Vanity Fair

'I hung up the phone and was asking my mom what he was talking about until she confessed the history behind my birth.' 
Bruce Jenner was married to his first wife to Chrystie Crownover from 1972 to 1981, with whom he had two children, Burton and Cassandra.
But in the upcoming issue of Vanity Fair, Jenner recalls that the couple found out Chrystie was pregnant halfway through their divorce. 








Whole story: Jenner's daughter Casey told Vanity Fair she didn't find out her dad hadn't wanted her until she was 13







First four: Burt (L) and Casey are Jenner's children with first wife Chrystie Crownover. Linda Thompson, Jenner's second wife, is mom to Brody and Brandon

Jenner brought up the idea of abortion but 'rejected it after 30 seconds'.
When Casey eventually did arrive on June 10, 1980, Jenner was in a hotel room in Kansas City, crying.
'Under the circumstances I could not even see myself being there,' Jenner told the mag.
In the July 1980 edition of Playboy, Jenner had admitted: 'My first reaction was that I didn't want it'.
Chrystie also confirmed at the time that she had considered an abortion, but only because her husband wanted one.






Tight: Casey (second from right) was close with her brother half-brothers Brandon (L) and Brody (R)

'When I found out I was pregnant Bruce raised the issue of an abortion, and I went along with him just as I always did,' she told a January 1981 edition of People Magazine. 'I had all the tests and had even paid for the operation.
'But one night I was out to dinner and my friend asked me why I wanted an abortion. I told him, "I don't want the abortion." He said, "Why are you having it?" And I said, "Because Bruce wants it."
He said, "You are having the abortion because the man that you are not going to be living with wants you to have it?" 
'I thought, what an idiot I am. I wanted the child very, very much. But I was conditioned to make decisions that were best for him. It was totally my choice to have the baby,' she said.







Before transitioning: In a 1980 interview with Playboy, Jenner (pictured with all six kids in 2012) admitted to not wanting a second child with Christie

'But since then Bruce has been very loving and accepting of Casey,' she added at the time. 'We haven't had any hassles over the kids.'
During a tell-all interview with Diane Sawyer in April, Jenner admitted to being an absent parent to Burt, Casey, Brandon and Brody. 
In Vanity Fair, Brandon recalls an incident shortly after the Northridge earthquake 1994, when he told his mother - Bruce's second wife Linda Thompson - that his father had called to see if the family were okay.
She was 'delighted' to hear Bruce had checked on them, until Brandon brought her back to earth, telling her "mom, I'm just kidding".
But following the transformation, Caitlyn now talks to her eldest daughter more than ever.
'I was worried I wouldn't say the right things or act the right way or seem relaxed,' Jenner told Vanity Fair.







By his side: Chrystie was with gold medallist Jenner at  the 1976 Montreal Olympics







Close: This snap of Jenner's oldest four children (with Casey second from left) was posted to Instagram by Linda Thompson

But as soon a Casey realized how happy her father had become, they both became at ease.
'We talked more than we ever have,' Jenner said. 'We could just be girls together.'
The 65-year-old insisted she is now a much better person - something Casey's big brother has vouched for.
'Even my son, actually, Burt said that to me one time. He goes, To be honest with you, I think Caitlyn is a lot better person than Bruce",' Jenner added.
'I think hes right, because Bruce always had to tell a lie, he was always living that lie, every day, he always had a secret from morning till night. Caitlyn doesn't have any secrets.' 

'It broke my heart' Bruce Jenner's first wife on emotional secret















Close: Caitlyn told Vanity Fair she believes she is now a much better person and parent, and talks to Casey (circled) 'more than ever'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3107706/Bruce-Jenner-wanted-eldest-daughter-aborted-didn-t-birth-Caitlyn-insists-s-better-person.html#ixzz3bwdKQIPG


----------



## redney

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Who are you to tell someone how to be transgender? Or how to be the right kind of transgender that's acceptable to you? There are many who don't undergo the full surgery gor a spectrum of reasons.
> 
> This is not a black and white area and there are many well-written posts by people better versed in the surgery than me, right here on this thread



Thank you!

Some of these posts....SMH.


----------



## Eva1991

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Who are you to tell someone how to be transgender? Or how to be the right kind of transgender that's acceptable to you? There are many who don't undergo the full surgery for a spectrum of reasons.
> 
> This is not a black and white area and there are many well-written posts by people better versed in the surgery than me, right here on this thread



Great post!!!!!:urock:


----------



## Oryx816

I don't have any sympathy for Kris and I find her an utterly despicable human being.  A woman who goes out and markets her daughter's sex tape is capable of anything, in my estimation, so lying is as effortless as breathing to her.

However, I do have to cast a major side-eye at Caitlyn, because in the Diane Sawyer interview she said, "I have no problem with Kris.  She is a good woman."  Now, in the VF article it is a whole different story.  While I don't think Kris is "a good woman" by any stretch of the imagination, I do think there is a lot of lying going on with all of them.  That much hasn't changed.


----------



## September24

Congrats Caitlyn! What a relief it must be after so long. And SHAME on PMK for trying to milk another story out of nothing, she's driving the bus to hell that's for sure!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

GaitreeS said:


> Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to someone like Bruce/Caitlyn. We all have things in our lives that we have to deal with and still be kind to our friends, family, children, spouse etc. It can't be said I was a crappy human being because I was dealing with my gender issues, that sounds like an excuse to me.
> 
> Also if people choose to support him that's great. I don't and I have issue saying that. I care Bruce/Caitlyn as much as I care about any human who is not in my family, but I still think he doesn't know who he wants to be. I'm going to say something and I REALLY don't mean to be offensive, so I'm apologising in advance to anyone who might be offended.
> 
> Bruce can never truly be a woman. He will never truly know the joy and the sorry of being a woman. Women are wonderfully intricate creation, we are not all the same, but there is a something so unique and powerful about women that I truly admire and love. Being a woman is more than physical appearance, hair, make up, clothes, shoes that's just a part of it. We can't reduce womanhood to mere physical aspects. Whether you believe in evolution or creation each woman presents a certain power (if she knows it or not) and mystery that I think cannot be replicated.
> 
> #my2cents #justmyopinion #Iloveyouall
> 
> Exits thread.



Respectfully spoken.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Except a large percentage of transgender don't go all the way so her keeping it isnt any different than what other transgender people do. She is still a she with or without it. For someone who likes to use Chaz Bono as an example you didn't exactly learn anything from him



I learned the difference in doing something with dignity and turning something into a circus.

Also, Chaz Bono knew exactly what he wanted and did it without hesitation. No back and forth, I'm keeping it, no I'm not crap.

Court documents indicate that Chaz underwent an "irreversible surgery"  on September 23, 2009 to change his "sex characteristics from female to  male." Chaz's doctor writes in the documents, "Chaz Bono has completed  his gender reassignment surgery."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/chaz-bono-completes-gende_n_566240.html


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> CNN was discussing something he said -- although he is doing interviews, cover stories and reality shows to show his true self, he is also doing it for the money because he has a mortgage to pay.  Apparently this is all very lucrative for him and he sees the profit in it.
> 
> Luckily, he doesn't have to support anyone but himself, since the kids all have careers and money of their own and no one is going to university or asking him for help with a down payment.



Yea, good thing he doesn't have to pay child support because we know how that turned out the last time.


----------



## ByeKitty

skarsbabe said:


> this. and I'm sorry but if he's got a d*ck, it's a dude.


Ouch, how about all the inbetweens? Enlarged clitorises and the like? And how about if Bruce/Caitlyn went though the gender reassignment operations...would you consider her a woman then? Because biologically, she will never be female.



bisousx said:


> You don't have to give your life to be considered a hero. Sigh. As a usmc wifey as well, I'm tired of people constantly comparing everything in the news to the military. Apples and oranges. Looking up to a person is completely relative to the beholder. What about all of us who consider our parents our heroes? That said, I've never been one to idolize sports icons,  but I could see how all these TG kids living in shame could admire that he was willing to put his story out there.


Ugh no, it's something Americans tend to do: calling people in the military national heroes. I mean, yes, most soldiers are brave. But they're not all heroes, and there are people who were never in the military that should be considered heroic.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Referred to his daughter as *it*, according to that story?
If that pronoun were used to refer to Bruce/Caitlyn, I shudder to imagine how he and his supporters would react.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I learned the difference in doing something with dignity and turning something into a circus.
> 
> Also, Chaz Bono knew exactly what he wanted and did it without hesitation. No back and forth, I'm keeping it, no I'm not crap.
> 
> Court documents indicate that Chaz underwent an "irreversible surgery"  on September 23, 2009 to change his "sex characteristics from female to  male." Chaz's doctor writes in the documents, "Chaz Bono has completed  his gender reassignment surgery."
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/chaz-bono-completes-gende_n_566240.html



The blasting Bruce/Caitlyn over his genitals does not sit well with me... Has he even said anything about it? Even if she decided to keep the male parts: plenty of transgenders do. It's quite something to have your genitals removed, and I've read that, for instance, sexual pleasure diminishes. It's also irreversible. It's not some decision you just make overnight, I'm sure Chaz Bono also contemplated on it for quite a while as he was 40 when he did it.


----------



## littlerock

ByeKitty said:


> *Ouch, how about all the inbetweens? *Enlarged clitorises and the like? And how about if Bruce/Caitlyn went though the gender reassignment operations...would you consider her a woman then? Because biologically, she will never be female.



Not to mention the babies born with both male & female sexual organs. *SMH*


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Turning into a Kardashian right before our very eyes.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...l&utm_campaign=CaitlynStressingOverFirstDress


----------



## tweegy

Jayne1 said:


> CNN was discussing something he said -- although he is doing interviews, cover stories and reality shows to show his true self, he is also doing it for the money because he has a mortgage to pay.  Apparently this is all very lucrative for him and he sees the profit in it.
> 
> Luckily, he doesn't have to support anyone but himself, since the kids all have careers and money of their own and no one is going to university or asking him for help with a down payment.




That could also maybe why she said in the vf article that the two youngest are 'capable' of handling the news cause they bought houses? they can support themselves...


----------



## littlerock

Coach Lover Too said:


> Referred to his daughter as *it*, according to that story?
> If that pronoun were used to refer to Bruce/Caitlyn, I shudder to imagine how he and his supporters would react.



I read that as a quote from early on, when they were first considering abortion, which is usually before you know the sex. It's pretty common to refer to a fetus as an "it" before you can truly relate/ identify with it. For example "I wonder what it's going to be, a boy or a girl",, This is common to say.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> I learned the difference in doing something with dignity and turning something into a circus.
> 
> Also, Chaz Bono knew exactly what he wanted and did it without hesitation. No back and forth, I'm keeping it, no I'm not crap.
> 
> Court documents indicate that Chaz underwent an "irreversible surgery"  on September 23, 2009 to change his "sex characteristics from female to  male." Chaz's doctor writes in the documents, "Chaz Bono has completed  his gender reassignment surgery."
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/chaz-bono-completes-gende_n_566240.html



Transgendered are told to wait a year after they have had other surgeries. How do you know Caitlyn won't do the same. She just had all the other surgeries in March 2015. Chaz had been trans since he was a teenager and had the surgery in 2009. So what exactly is your point? There is no going back and forth.


----------



## mcb100

I just want to say that I have a few friends who are transgender, and I fully support Bruce's transition. I am sympathetic about this situation because it must be awfully difficult for him and the whole family too. I'm glad that he finally feels comfortable enough to share his news. I do believe as someone else said, that he probably has things to pay for, and sees it financially well to do magazine covers and things but that his thoughts and feelings about this subject are totally real. I'm not going to put that down, everyone has things to pay for, and he is probably helping the transgender community by sharing his thoughts on the subject and spreading the word with how difficult it is.


Do I think he could have been smarter though? Absolutely. With his decision to have all those kids. And I feel like the right thing for him to do if he really thought of it along the lines of "I love my wife. And although I am really a woman, I do not see this is a reason not to pro create because lives and children are precious, and I have the money to support them so I don't see anything wrong with it, etc." would have been to tell his kids early on while they were each young. If he shared his thoughts about all this with a few of his wives previously, there wasn't any reason to keep the kids out, if he knew he would tell them eventually anyway? Even though the public can be cruel if he was going to eventually make this public anyway, he should have included the kids early on, in my opinion.


I feel for him though and it must be awfully hard to be so uncomfortable in your own skin, so I am happy that he is happy. It was definitely an emotional video with Diane Sawyer. That being said, *and please no one kill me here for this*, Bruce Jenner is not what I would call "a hero." However, he did a great thing by sharing his news and I'm glad that he wants to help the transgender community. Keep in mind, to some, the word "hero" is subjective. He might be a hero to others and that's well and fine but to me, I wouldn't call him a hero. (And that's fine. The word hero means different things to everyone.) I understand that the public is dangerous and people may in fact come after him (and that's terrible) but I think that all transgenders are of risk for that. I reserve the word hero for people who are doing a bunch of phenomenal things in the world like opening up homeless shelters, saving someone from death, going to great and worldly lengths to help people on a daily basis. He hasn't really done anything huge to help others in the world, before this, so that is why I personally am not going to call him a hero. I hope this does not offend anyone as it's only my personal opinion, and I do think he seems like a good person with well intentions. 
   However, he seems like a great man and I love how he talks about wanting to help transgender people, and how it is very difficult when you are not comfortable in your own skin. I don't really have anything negative to say about him, it's just that when I think of hero, I think of Jane Fonda, or Rosa Parks, people who moved huge waves in history just to help others.


----------



## usmcwifey

bisousx said:


> You don't have to give your life to be considered a hero. Sigh. As a usmc wifey as well, I'm tired of people constantly comparing everything in the news to the military. Apples and oranges. Looking up to a person is completely relative to the beholder. What about all of us who consider our parents our heroes? That said, I've never been one to idolize sports icons,  but I could see how all these TG kids living in shame could admire that he was willing to put his story out there.




Well I'm sorry you're tired of hearing people praise those in the military, but having lost my brother and cousin I will never stop praising their sacrifice and service of others...your parents can be heroes for they sacrifice for you...BUT Caitlin or Bruce are not heroes ...people may call them that but he is not, if starting a family knowing you are transgender and then ignoring them because you can't cope with your inner demons is not being a hero....he shouldn't have created a family he didn't want or wasn't ready for ...which is why people should use inspiration or admiration instead of hero. This is ALL my opinion and mine only ...


----------



## labelwhore04

littlerock said:


> Not to mention the babies born with both male & female sexual organs. *SMH*



Some people here really need to watch the documentary "intersexion." The ignorance in some of these posts is just shocking. Its not always black and white to be male or female. Some Intersex people don't even identify as one or the other. And it seems like people are still confused by the difference between gender and sex, 2 completely different things. Bruce's biological SEX is male and always will be, but his GENDER is female because thats what he presents as and identifies as. Its really not a hard concept to grasp.


----------



## blackkitty4378

DesigningStyle said:


> Jenner is who is Jenner is.  Changing a name, changing a gender does NOT change the person.



I agree with you, but it's not so much that he's changing who he is as a person. Caitlyn is who he's always felt like is in inside, and now he's finally free to express that side of him. Before he felt like he had to be Bruce, and that carried a certain persona of the Olympic hero that he felt he had to stick with for so long. Now "Caitlyn" is the personification of who he really is inside, the person who wore pantyhose and a bra underneath the suits an dressed as a woman in his free time.

It's the same thing with a lot of people who aren't even transgender. A lot of people in Hollywood will have a certain image that's not how they are in real life. Even people who are not famous will feel the need to act differently in public vs at home. That's what I take from it anyway.


----------



## tweegy

On a side note, I read he gained inspiration from the Monica lewinsky ted talk..... I listened to that talk... To me it was a no bueno.. If she gained inspiration good for her. But I personally found it a rubbish talk.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> I learned the difference in doing something with dignity and turning something into a circus.
> 
> Also, Chaz Bono knew exactly what he wanted and did it without hesitation. No back and forth, I'm keeping it, no I'm not crap.
> 
> Court documents indicate that Chaz underwent an "irreversible surgery"  on September 23, 2009 to change his "sex characteristics from female to  male." Chaz's doctor writes in the documents, "Chaz Bono has completed  his gender reassignment surgery."
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/chaz-bono-completes-gende_n_566240.html



Lord are you missing some sensitivity chip or something. The decision to have that surgery isn't easy. In the beginning Chaz always deflected when people asked him if he was going to have Penile Construction surgery. He started the transition process in 2008 and didn't talk about seriously taking the steps to have the actual procedure done until 2011 during the time he was on Dancing with The Stars. You don't think during this time he weighed the pros and cons flip flopped until he finally made that decision? His wife didn't want him to do it either. He also documented his transformation and made a profit off it when he sold 'Becoming Chaz' to OWN so he's not that different from Caitlyn. 

The whole "Chaz handled it better" line you use insinuates that you followed his journey and based on the messy comments that you keep leaving you obviously either didn't pay attention or didn't actually follow him.


----------



## tweegy

blackkitty4378 said:


> I agree with you, but it's not so much that he's changing who he is as a person. Caitlyn is who he's always felt like is in inside, and now he's finally free to express that side of him. Before he felt like he had to be Bruce, and that carried a certain persona of the Olympic hero that he felt he had to stick with for so long. Now "Caitlyn" is the personification of who he really is inside, the person who wore pantyhose and a bra underneath the suits an dressed as a woman in his free time.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same thing with a lot of people who aren't even transgender. A lot of people in Hollywood will have a certain image that's not how they are in real life. Even people who are not famous will feel the need to act differently in public vs at home. That's what I take from it anyway.




The little cynic in me tend to think that this persona of Caitlyn is a marketing/public image campaign. Look at the business she's gained from this. 

The strategy is poor Bruce who was basically a captive of vile kris who ran his everyday and wouldn't let him shine and couldn't cope. Don't mention his lack of fathering towards his first kids and him having two failed marriages under his belt. Caitlyn is his liberation, his freedom, his breath of fresh air...


----------



## blackkitty4378

exotikittenx said:


> Thank you, Coco Belle, for putting it so eloquently.
> 
> Yes,  I never said people couldn't ask questions or meant to be "policing" anyone.  I was just trying to instill some thought, compassion, and consideration into a delicate subject.  *My point was simply to get people to think about what they are saying and how it may translate.  I was not the one who asked general questions about people who are trans*; others brought those questions up and I found it odd that they didn't seem to like the responses that were aimed at promoting more understanding of what it means to be transgender, scientifically and emotionally.  They still responded with, "Well, this is my opinion".  Okay, and so it is.*
> 
> To whomever posted suggesting that I go on a crusade in the Kim K. thread, well, I am not going to do that, but I don't agree with tearing apart someone's looks publicly, either.  If you go back through perhaps thousands of pages of the gossip and nasty comments, I'm pretty sure I've already said it somewhere, anyway.  Lol.   I realize this is a gossip forum, but the subject of transgenderism was brought up in here, and it is something I feel strongly about, even if it is a gossip thread.  I can't be bothered to care if people are commenting on Bruce's flawed character traits or parenting, and so forth, but when I see misconceptions about a section of society that is still marginalized, invisible, and lacking proper rights and support, I cannot sit back silently, no matter what the forum.



This +1000. Sorry, but someone's limited view of what gender is does not triumph the science over what gender or sex is. If someone doesn't like it and prefers to stay in their bubble that's fine, but (most) people are not going to believe an opinion over science, the science being that neither gender, nor sex (XX and XY chromosomes) is one way or the other.


----------



## nori west

I read the Vanity Fair article, too. I was really impressed with how the older four Jenner kids (the "Jenner side" as they were referred to in the article) came off. They were really supportive of Caitlin, while being brutally honest about his/her failings early on in their lives, and as adults. 

If that were me, and my father hadn't bothered to acknowledge my birthday or graduation or anything for years on end, I'd be a lot more bitter. They're really quite supportive of her, and I think their expectations for a parental relationship going forward seem realistic. 

Another reason I was impressed: none of the "Jenner side" support Caitlin's new docu-series, due mostly to the fact that it is produced by the same people that do "Keeping up with the K's", and they fear, like a lot of E! reality shows, it will become a circus.


----------



## tweegy

nori west said:


> I read the Vanity Fair article, too. I was really impressed with how the older four Jenner kids (the "Jenner side" as they were referred to in the article) came off. They were really supportive of Caitlin, while being brutally honest about his/her failings early on in their lives, and as adults.
> 
> If that were me, and my father hadn't bothered to acknowledge my birthday or graduation or anything for years on end, I'd be a lot more bitter. They're really quite supportive of her, and I think their expectations for a parental relationship going forward seem realistic.
> 
> Another reason I was impressed: none of the "Jenner side" support Caitlin's new docu-series, due mostly to the fact that it is produced by the same people that do "Keeping up with the K's", and they fear, like a lot of E! reality shows, it will become a circus.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] your username!!


----------



## blackkitty4378

tweegy said:


> The little cynic in me tend to think that this persona of Caitlyn is a marketing/public image campaign. Look at the business she's gained from this.
> 
> The strategy is poor Bruce who was basically a captive of vile kris who ran his everyday and wouldn't let him shine and couldn't cope. Don't mention his lack of fathering towards his first kids and him having two failed marriages under his belt. Caitlyn is his liberation, his freedom, his breath of fresh air...



I'm with you 100% on Bruce being a bad parent. As someone who had bad parents, it's a sensitive subject for me and I tend to feel a little strong about it. I'm just thankful that his older four seemed to have good mothers to pick up the slack.

But Bruce is selfish, and he can blame whomever he wants for his poor choices in life but some people are still going to see through that. I see him playing the victim as a defense mechanism because he know he messed up, but it's easier to blame evil Kris.


----------



## Sassys

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm with you 100% on Bruce being a bad parent. As someone who had bad parents, it's a sensitive subject for me and I tend to feel a little strong about it. I'm just thankful that his older four seemed to have good mothers to pick up the slack.
> 
> But Bruce is selfish, and he can blame whomever he wants for his poor choices in life but some people are still going to see through that. I see him playing the victim as a defense mechanism because he know he messed up, but it's easier to blame evil Kris.



 I don't think he ws blaming Kris for being a bad Dad. He admitted he was a messed up parent even before he met Kris. He also said, because of Kris, he began to try to be a better father by merging all the kids (he didn't have to say that).

I think the older Jenner kids are more accepting now, because Bruce has owned his wrong doing. He could have said, yeah I was a bad father, get over it, how many years ago was that. But he has owned and admitted, he was wrong.


----------



## vintagefinds

GaitreeS said:


> Bruce can never truly be a woman. He will never truly know the joy and the sorry of being a woman. Women are wonderfully intricate creation, we are not all the same, but there is a something so unique and powerful about women that I truly admire and love. Being a woman is more than physical appearance, hair, make up, clothes, shoes that's just a part of it. We can't reduce womanhood to mere physical aspects. Whether you believe in evolution or creation each woman presents a certain power (if she knows it or not) and mystery that I think cannot be replicated.



Urm, no. There's nothing mysterious or magical about being a woman. It's kind of weird to suggest one gender has all these innate, ethereal qualities that the other, more earth bound, gender can not possibly replicate. If you live your life as a woman, you're welcome to join the club, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## gottaluvmybags

[





Ugh no, it's something Americans tend to do: calling people in the military national heroes. I mean, yes, most soldiers are brave. But they're not all heroes, and there are people who were never in the military that should be considered heroic.[/QUOTE]


Agreed... I was in the Army and i think the term heroes is automatically thrown in.  Some perform their duties heroically but there are a lot of them that volunteer to go for the extra pay.... It pays to be deployed.


----------



## bisousx

usmcwifey said:


> Well I'm sorry you're tired of hearing people praise those in the military, but having lost my brother and cousin I will never stop praising their sacrifice and service of others...your parents can be heroes for they sacrifice for you...BUT Caitlin or Bruce are not heroes ...people may call them that but he is not, if starting a family knowing you are transgender and then ignoring them because you can't cope with your inner demons is not being a hero....he shouldn't have created a family he didn't want or wasn't ready for ...which is why people should use inspiration or admiration instead of hero. This is ALL my opinion and mine only ...



Don't twist my words around by saying I'm against praising the military. Now you're just making things up, lmao.


----------



## glamourous1098

Just because Caitlyn isn't YOUR hero, does not mean that she is not incredibly important to other people.  She is not my hero, but she might be to a young person struggling to figure out why they don't identify with the body they were born with or a parent trying to understand their child.  And isn't that just as important?  In short, my point is that just because you do not view her actions as brave/heroic, does not mean that her transition is any less influential.  Furthermore, I think to witness such a famous figure going through this transition is a good opportunity to educate people on trans issues.  For a lot of people, Caitlyn is their first real glimpse at a trans person (that they are aware of) and that's a very big deal.


----------



## tweegy

glamourous1098 said:


> Just because Caitlyn isn't YOUR hero, does not mean that she is not incredibly important to other people.  She is not my hero, but she might be to a young person struggling to figure out why they don't identify with the body they were born with or a parent trying to understand their child.  And isn't that just as important?  In short, my point is that just because you do not view her actions as brave/heroic, does not mean that her transition is any less influential.  Furthermore, I think to witness such a famous figure going through this transition is a good opportunity to educate people on trans issues.  For a lot of people, Caitlyn is their first real glimpse at a trans person (that they are aware of) and that's a very big deal.




I agree with this. 

Despite what she did in the past the present action she is indeed heroic in my book. Set aside personal motive and agendas .Just to the fact that people dealing with this can take away and help with what they are going thru.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

glamourous1098 said:


> Just because Caitlyn isn't YOUR hero, does not mean that she is not incredibly important to other people.  She is not my hero, but she might be to a young person struggling to figure out why they don't identify with the body they were born with or a parent trying to understand their child.  And isn't that just as important?  In short, my point is that just because you do not view her actions as brave/heroic, does not mean that her transition is any less influential.  Furthermore, I think to witness such a famous figure going through this transition is a good opportunity to educate people on trans issues.  For a lot of people, Caitlyn is their first real glimpse at a trans person (that they are aware of) and that's a very big deal.



I love this post.   So very true.

Someone, somewhere out there is going to benefit from this. A young kid or maybe an older person who has been afraid to speak out or be themselves. And who has very few people in the media they can identify with.


----------



## Swanky

*Caitlyn Jenner Name Inspired by Miss America Pageant*

 

*        6/2/2015 11:48 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF     *






*Caitlyn Jenner* chose her name after being inspired by the Miss America pageant.
Caitlyn told *Vanity Fair* she had been watching the pageant in the last couple of years to come up with ideas for names. Two names resonated with her -- Heather and Cathy.
It sounds like Heather and Cathy were front-runners but she also liked Caitlyn. Ultimately, Caitlyn's assistant Rhonda tipped the scales when she suggested Caitlyn.  
Jenner had been on the fence but Rhonda pushed him over the line. 



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3bxdZkBTU


----------



## Swanky

*Caitlyn Jenner New Identity Creates Problems at the Golf Course*

 *        6/2/2015 1:00 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF     *

EXCLUSIVE
*

*
*Caitlyn Jenner* has some tricky day-to-day changes in store, including where she eats, drinks and changes clothes ... at the country club which has become her home away from home.
Bruce Jenner became a member of *Sherwood Country Club* in Thousand Oaks, CA 15 years ago. He golfed there almost every day and established close relationships with his golfing buddies. It's a very exclusive, ritzy club with an initiation fee ranging between $150,000 and $300,000.
But now that *Bruce is Caitlyn*, the rules partially segregate her from the male members.
For starters, there's a grill in the locker room that is male only. The women's locker room has its own eating area which is way more scaled down.
Our Sherwood sources say the board will enforce the rules, which means the camaraderie Bruce shared with the other members will be impeded now that she's Caitlyn.
But we're also told the board is open to an appeal by Caitlyn herself. She can attempt to make a case that she can keep the same privileges she had when she was Bruce.
The club is closed for renovations until December, which means there's time to sort things out.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3bxdqlZZg


----------



## skarsbabe

Lol, this is exactly where it makes no sense. If the trans community wants the world to accept them, they have to realize they need to pick a team and go with it. I completely understand a men's only club NOT wanting him there if he claims he is a woman, dresses as a woman, and acts like one now.


----------



## SpeedyJC

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Caitlyn would use the women's restroom.



I don't think its that simple. Pretty sure some states do not permit transgenders to use public restrooms of their non birth sex unless they have fully transitioned. I know Florida is trying to pass a bill on it. 


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article15120632.html


----------



## FreeSpirit71

skarsbabe said:


> Lol, this is exactly where it makes no sense. If the trans community wants the world to accept them, they have to realize they need to pick a team and go with it. I completely understand a men's only club NOT wanting him there if he claims he is a woman, dresses as a woman, and acts like one now.



You're making a HUGE assumption there based only on that article that Bruce will actually _want _to remain in the Men's section.

I'd be very suprised if he did. The only difference is the locker room and eating area. He can still be friends and play with his golfing buddies


----------



## SpeedyJC

Sassys said:


> So if a man lost his penis in a freak accident is he now no longer a man?
> 
> If a woman no longer has a breast, uterus, ovaries or fallopian tubes, does that mean she is no longer a woman?



I'm sorry but those examples are poor as I was talking from a legal standpoint. Legally Caitlyn can not be considered a woman until fully transitioned. Do I see her as a woman? Of course I do and it's up to her to fully transition or not, I support her choice either way.


----------



## SpeedyJC

FreeSpirit71 said:


> You're making a HUGE assumption there based only on that article that Bruce will actually _want _to remain in the Men's section.
> 
> I'd be very suprised if he did. The only difference is the locker room and eating area. He can still be friends and play with his golfing buddies



ITA. There have been so many articles who knows what's true and what's not. If there is a woman section who knows if she will be able to use that?   This is where it must get so confusing.  I feel so bad for those who have to deal with this on a daily basis, I can't even imagine.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

SpeedyJC said:


> ITA. There have been so many articles who knows what's true and what's not. If there is a woman section who knows if she will be able to use that?   This is where it must get so confusing.  I* feel so bad for those who have to deal with this on a daily basis, I can't even imagine*.



I do too. But there's a silver lining - it's going to open up the conversation for how situations like this will go.


----------



## DesigningStyle

SpeedyJC said:


> I don't think its that simple. Pretty sure some states do not permit transgenders to use public restrooms of their non birth sex unless they have fully transitioned. I know Florida is trying to pass a bill on it.
> 
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article15120632.html



I am not sure I would feel comfortable being nude in a locker room with Caitlyn while she still has male parts.  Perhaps the country club has a separate, singleuser locker room and showering facility that transgendered individuals can use?


----------



## AEGIS

It's problematic bc not everyone transitions but they may wanna be considered the oppostie gender.  like i don't want a sausage in my locker room even if you dress as a woman bc at the end of the day--you still have an appendage, regardless of how you feel.

and i don't even want to think how competitive sports will deal with this.  i remember a trans woman wanted to compete in the womans division of a weight lifting compeition and the women protested bc as a natural born man he would naturally have more muscle mass and be stronger than the average man and the committee had to revert to what is your sex, not your gender questions.

or that story about that woman who was called a bigot by Planet Fitness bc she protested what she thought was a man in the lockeroom and I guess PF has very loose gender lockeroom rules.  anyway she kept whining and got kicked out but they eventually discovered the man in question wasn't trans...he was a transvestite [do ppl still use that term?] and was a cross dresser. 

it is nebulous at best.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Is anyone watching the documentary Trinadad? It's on Showtime now.

It's about Trinadad, Colorado and some people have dubbed it the "sex change capital of the world."


----------



## AEGIS

gracekelly said:


> Jenner is not the only parent who has been so wrapped up in themselves that they miss out on their children.  Gender has nothing to do with it.  It is just self absorption.    I don't see where that is going to change just based on age alone.



IA w/this.



labelwhore04 said:


> Some people here really need to watch the documentary "intersexion." The ignorance in some of these posts is just shocking. Its not always black and white to be male or female. Some Intersex people don't even identify as one or the other. And it seems like people are still confused by the difference between gender and sex, 2 completely different things. Bruce's biological SEX is male and always will be, but his GENDER is female because thats what he presents as and identifies as. Its really not a hard concept to grasp.



well.....that's if you believe that gender is a social construct.  if you don't then sex and gender are one and the same.  it's really not that hard of a concept to grasp either bc i think academically the idea of a difference between the two is a relatively new concept. and i don't necessarily buy that academic distinction.  while i quite understand what a transgender individual is and how that works,  I simply do not know if I think the sex/gender distinction/dichotomy is the best way to explain it, if that makes sense.


----------



## schadenfreude

Coach Lover Too said:


> Inspiration would be a better word. Hero, I'll save that word for those fighting for our freedom or children struggling with cancer. Not Bruce Jenner. Not Caitlyn Jenner.



Agreed. He's a wealthy and famous individual who has the luxury of being able to pursue his truth. The majority of individuals who suffer from gender identity issues are forced to conceal or minimize it due to social and/or economical restraints.



glamourous1098 said:


> Just because Caitlyn isn't YOUR hero, does not mean that she is not incredibly important to other people.  ...  For a lot of people, Caitlyn is their first real glimpse at a trans person (that they are aware of) and that's a very big deal.



If I was transgendered, quite frankly, I can't say I'd be pleased that it was a member of the Kardashian Klan (for all intents and purposes) who was bringing the issue to light. It turns a very real issue into a joke of a three-ring media circus.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I guess *WE* don't get to speak for the transgender community. But many of the transgender are speaking for _themselves_. While a minority are concerned because of the Kardashian connection, I've seen overwhelming posts and blogs that read like this:



> For many in the transgender community in our area, Bruce Jenner&#8217;s transition into Caitlyn has been a powerful boost to raising awareness of who they are.
> 
> &#8220;I&#8217;m part of a generation that is fortunate that we&#8217;re going to try to be more visible and less of a joke.&#8221;
> 
> *For Dee, she knows just how important Bruce Jenner&#8217;s transition into Caitlyn is for her and to others in the transgender community.*
> 
> It was just a year ago she told her family she was becoming a woman.
> 
> &#8220;Like I say, coming out was no problem because it kind of wasn&#8217;t, getting to that point though, like I&#8217;m 35 now, and getting to this point, that was the hard part because you&#8217;re dealing with, &#8216;Am I a weirdo? Is there something wrong with me?'&#8221; said Dee.
> 
> *Will Krisanda says seeing Caitlyn Jenner&#8217;s picture on Vanity Fair&#8217;s cover is a proud moment for him.*
> 
> The 32 year old remembers how scared he was to tell his family six years ago he was becoming a man.
> 
> &#8220;It was terrifying, but also really freeing in a way. It was like, OK, I&#8217;m making these steps. This is what I&#8217;m going to do. _ told my family, my friends, my co-workers, my boss and that was hardest part, just saying it out loud,&#8221; said Will.
> 
> Will says he, like Jenner, always knew something in his life was missing.
> 
> &#8220;I didn&#8217;t know what it was. I just knew when I was around other guys, other boys when I was younger, I tried to be like them. I saw myself, in my head at night when I would go to sleep, as this boy,&#8221; said Will.
> 
> Both Will and Dee say they are lucky to have support from those in their lives, for making their transitions a success. Now they hope Jenner&#8217;s story will help more people to welcome the transgender community.
> 
> &#8220;I&#8217;m accepted as a woman to the point where misogyny is a problem,&#8221; laughed Dee. &#8220;My car broke down earlier today. As soon as I popped the hood, three guys came running over with jumper cables, &#8216;Can I help you, miss?&#8217; I&#8217;m like, &#8216;I kind of know what I&#8217;m doing, but thanks.'&#8221;
> 
> The Northeastern Pennsylvania Rainbow Alliance provides several programs and support groups to those in the transgender community.
> 
> To find those services go to NEPA Rainbow Alliance&#8217;s website here._


_

*Source*: http://wnep.com/2015/06/01/nepas-transgender-community-celebrates-caitlyn-jenner-cover/

And..




*LGBT groups hailed Jenner's Vanity Fair cover story*.

"I think that Caitlyn is a good role model and the fact that she has such a long history in the public eye, even before the Kardashians [reality television show]. You know, she had this history of being this all-star athlete so her story is unique in that way, in that it's really bridging two different communities," said Drian Juarez, program manager at the *Los Angeles LBGT Center.*

"By sharing her journey with the world, Caitlyn Jenner is accelerating acceptance of transgender people everywhere and reminds us all how important it is to live as your most authentic self," *GLAAD *head Sarah Kate Ellis said.

"For a transgender person to step into the world as his or her authentic self is a moment of tremendous freedom," said Nick Adams, GLAAD's director of Programs, Transgender Media.
		
Click to expand...


*Source:* http://www.voanews.com/content/tran...raged-by-debut-of-caitlyn-jenner/2804170.html_


----------



## Coach Lover Too

usmcwifey said:


> Well I'm sorry you're tired of hearing people praise those in the military, but having lost my brother and cousin I will never stop praising their sacrifice and service of others...your parents can be heroes for they sacrifice for you...BUT Caitlin or Bruce are not heroes ...people may call them that but he is not, if starting a family knowing you are transgender and then ignoring them because you can't cope with your inner demons is not being a hero....he shouldn't have created a family he didn't want or wasn't ready for ...which is why people should use inspiration or admiration instead of hero. This is ALL my opinion and mine only ...



(Thank you to you and your family for your sacrifices.)


----------



## nori west

There's a good documentary on Netflix I watched a while ago, called "Lady Valor" about a former navy seal, and transgender woman, Kristin Beck. I loved her description when she said she was living in a 'gray world'. She couldn't say that she was totally feminine after she transitioned, or maybe she was still a little bit masculine. It's complex, and a spectrum.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dr. Drew discussed this on his show tonight. Pretty interesting hearing different sides to it, just like this thread.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

There was a man on the show who became a woman, decided it was a mistake and is back to being a man.
The suicide rate is high after surgery and they discussed how Bruce/Caitlyn would handle things once left alone at the beach house, after the newness wears off.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I especially agree with the second commenter.

sraymon33     &#8226;  5 hours ago         okay he admitted that he told her about his gender issue after the  marriage. Which makes him a deceitful liar and a manipulator, had he/she  been upfront about it, Kris would been able to make a choice either to  continue or leave the relationship...Yes she may have been mean, but he  was no rose either... People treat you the way you treat them... 


 yup   sraymon33    &#8226;  an hour ago         Thank you!  Bruce is a bloody fraud.  I have no issues with someone  who wants to live their own life but to deliberately deceive someone and  have more children with them when he didn't even take care of the ones  he already had is pathetic.  He's a motivational speaker and is using  his skill to spin the story and get sympathy votes.  He gets no pass  with me.  Kris was mean to him, huh?  She managed his career to make him  a mutli millionaire after being in debt for years.  Seems to me once he  got rich, he lost motivation to do anything but play golf and fly  helicopters but yeah. lets blame your wife for you failing to be an  honest person.  She was so mean that he said they'd still be together if  she could cope with his transition and says Kris is a good person.   Contradiction much? There isn't a woman alive that wouldn't harbour  resentment if put in that position.  Bruce is a hypocrite and a liar.   His behavior is shameful.  I am no fan of Kris Jenner but Bruce is at  fault for this.


http://www.people.com/article/caitl...disagreement?xid=socialflow_twitter_peoplemag


----------



## nori west

After reading the Vanity Fair article, I will say it was clear (to me, at least) that Caitlin is not a person that has spent a great deal of time worrying about her family or friends.  Looking at those quotes you posted Coach Lover Too, I would agree with you that it takes two people to break up a marriage, and it was not just all "evil Kris Jenner's fault".


----------



## Luvbolide

SpeedyJC said:


> I don't think its that simple. Pretty sure some states do not permit transgenders to use public restrooms of their non birth sex unless they have fully transitioned. I know Florida is trying to pass a bill on it.
> 
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article15120632.html






I am not in any way criticizing you, but this article makes my head spin.  For one thing, I thought that as part of the transitioning process, it is important for the individual to live as the gender that they are transitioning to.  So Caitlyn should live as a woman - and use the woman's restroom and other facilities at the golf club.  It would make a mockery of everything to me if she could continue to be "one of the guys" in every sense but her outward appearance.

I worked in an office - about 20 years ago - and one of the young men who had worked there for years transitioned to female,  our office had about 150 employees, so pretty small, but we were told about what was happening and to expect that, among other things, he would be using the ladies' restroom.  Took a bit of adjustment for all, but the point was that he was becoming a woman and living as a woman.

And how the holy h*ll is Florida going to try to enforce a law like that?  Will the ladies' rooms have a fan to blow up skirts as one enters?!?!

Sometimes I am really glad that I live where I do...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Lord are you missing some sensitivity chip or something. The decision to have that surgery isn't easy. In the beginning Chaz always deflected when people asked him if he was going to have Penile Construction surgery. He started the transition process in 2008 and didn't talk about seriously taking the steps to have the actual procedure done until 2011 during the time he was on Dancing with The Stars. You don't think during this time he weighed the pros and cons flip flopped until he finally made that decision? His wife didn't want him to do it either. He also documented his transformation and made a profit off it when he sold 'Becoming Chaz' to OWN so he's not that different from Caitlyn.
> 
> The whole "Chaz handled it better" line you use insinuates that you followed his journey and based on the messy comments that you keep leaving you obviously either didn't pay attention or didn't actually follow him.




Let me make this easy for you.

I admired Chaz although I didn't understand his reasons for it in the beginning.
I don't admire Bruce/Caitlyn and I think he's a fraud and the fact that he's being honored at the EPSY awards is pathetic.
Looks like he's trying to *Keep up with the Kardashians.* IMO


----------



## Coach Lover Too

She told _Vanity Fair_ that she was upset with her older children  for not participating in the show, and even swore at them, but was  resigned to the fact that they stayed off camera.

Not only that, does anyone else think it's weird that the first time seeing one of the boys (can't remember if it was Brandon or Brody) the first thing he/she did was to raise her top and show off her breasts. That was too much for the son and he said so.


http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-sons-not-appearing-docuseries/


----------



## nori west

^ I think it was Brandon, Coach Lover Too. I grew up in a very conservative household, and if my mum had showed me her bosom...  Poor Brandon.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Coach Lover Too said:


> She told _Vanity Fair_ that she was upset with her older children  for not participating in the show, and even swore at them, but was  resigned to the fact that they stayed off camera.
> 
> *Not only that, does anyone else think it's weird that the first time seeing one of the boys (can't remember if it was Brandon or Brody) the first thing he/she did was to raise her top and show off her breasts. That was too much for the son and he said so.*
> 
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-sons-not-appearing-docuseries/



Yeah, it shows a huge lack of boundaries. Not normal or acceptable.


----------



## pjhm

Did Caitlyn ever explain why Bruce kept marrying after each divorce?.. That is the only part I do not understand. He broke up with linda Thompson because of it and then dated, wooed, and married another woman......?She may feel like a woman inside but still thinks like a selfish, self-centered man.


----------



## dangerouscurves

GaitreeS said:


> Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to someone like Bruce/Caitlyn. We all have things in our lives that we have to deal with and still be kind to our friends, family, children, spouse etc. It can't be said I was a crappy human being because I was dealing with my gender issues, that sounds like an excuse to me.
> 
> Also if people choose to support him that's great. I don't and I have issue saying that. I care Bruce/Caitlyn as much as I care about any human who is not in my family, but I still think he doesn't know who he wants to be. I'm going to say something and I REALLY don't mean to be offensive, so I'm apologising in advance to anyone who might be offended.
> 
> Bruce can never truly be a woman. He will never truly know the joy and the sorry of being a woman. Women are wonderfully intricate creation, we are not all the same, but there is a something so unique and powerful about women that I truly admire and love. Being a woman is more than physical appearance, hair, make up, clothes, shoes that's just a part of it. We can't reduce womanhood to mere physical aspects. Whether you believe in evolution or creation each woman presents a certain power (if she knows it or not) and mystery that I think cannot be replicated.
> 
> #my2cents #justmyopinion #Iloveyouall
> 
> Exits thread.




Lol!!!! But there are also women who shouldn't be women.


----------



## lh211

I don't feel sorry for Kris in the least - she's made a living out of being deceitful and using people. Now she can have a taste of her own soup .


----------



## FreeSpirit71

*TRANSGENDER NAMES, PRONOUN USAGE & DESCRIPTIONS*

Always use a transgender person's chosen name.

Many transgender people are able to obtain a legal name change from a court. However, some transgender people cannot afford a legal name change or are not yet old enough to change their name legally. They should be afforded the same respect for their chosen name as anyone else who lives by a name other than their birth name (e.g., celebrities).

Whenever possible, ask transgender people which pronoun they would like you to use.

A person who identifies as a certain gender, whether or not that person has taken hormones or had some form of surgery, should be referred to using the pronouns appropriate for that gender.

If it is not possible to ask a transgender person which pronoun is preferred, use the pronoun that is consistent with the person's appearance and gender expression.

For example, if a person wears a dress and uses the name Susan, feminine pronouns are usually appropriate.
It is never appropriate to put quotation marks around either a transgender person's chosen name or the pronoun that reflects that person's gender identity.


When describing transgender people, please use the correct term or terms to describe their gender identity.
For example, a person who was assigned male at birth and transitions to living as a woman is a transgender woman, whereas a person who was assigned female at birth and transitions to living as a man is a transgender man. If someone prefers a different term, use it along with an explanation of what that term means to them.


*TERMS TO AVOID

Problematic Terms*

*Problematic*: "transgenders," "a transgender"
Preferred: transgender people, a transgender person
Transgender should be used as an adjective, not as a noun. Do not say, "Tony is a transgender," or "The parade included many transgenders." Instead say, "Tony is a transgender man," or "The parade included many transgender people."

*Problematic*: "transgendered"
Preferred: transgender
The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, and bisexual. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."

*Problematic*: "transgenderism"
Preferred: none
This is not a term commonly used by transgender people. This is a term used by anti-transgender activists to dehumanize transgender people and reduce who they are to "a condition." Refer to being transgender instead, or refer to the transgender community. You can also refer to the movement for transgender equality.

*Problematic*: "sex change," "pre-operative," "post-operative"
Preferred: transition
Referring to a "sex-change operation," or using terms such as "pre-operative" or "post-operative," inaccurately suggests that one must have surgery in order to transition. Avoid overemphasizing surgery when discussing transgender people or the process of transition.

*Problematic*: "biologically male," "biologically female," "genetically male," "genetically female," "born a man," "born a woman"
Preferred: assigned male at birth, assigned female at birth or designated male at birth, designated female at birth

Problematic phrases like those above are reductive and overly-simplify a very complex subject. As mentioned above, a person's sex is determined by a number of factors - not simply genetics - and one's biology does not "*****" one's gender identity. Finally, people are born babies - they are not "born a man" or "born a woman."

*Defamatory Terms

Defamatory:* "deceptive," "fooling," "pretending," "posing," "trap," or "masquerading"

Gender identity is an integral part of a person's identity. Do not characterize transgender people as "deceptive," as "fooling" or "trapping" others, or as "pretending" to be, "posing" or "masquerading" as a man or a woman. Such descriptions are defamatory and insulting.

*Defamatory: "tranny," "she-male," "he/she," "it," "shim"*
These words dehumanize transgender people and should not be used. The criteria for using these derogatory terms should be the same as those applied to vulgar epithets used to target other groups: 

*Defamatory: "bathroom bill"*
A term created and used by far-right extremists to oppose non-discrimination laws that protect transgender people. The term is geared to incite fear and panic at the thought of encountering transgender people in public restrooms. 

Source:http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender


----------



## Croatia

It drives me crazy when people are trying to tell me who I am. I'm Croatian but I was born and raised in France. And there are always people telling me that I'm french. I'm sorry but I'm not my entire family is Croatian so am I, period. 
The same goes for Caitlyn IMO. If she considers herself a woman then she is a woman, that's all there is to it. Who am I to tell her whether she's a man or a woman???
She knows best who she is and her genitals are irrelevant, IMO.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Croatia said:


> It drives me crazy when people are trying to tell me who I am. I'm Croatian but I was born and raised in France. And there are always people telling me that I'm french. I'm sorry but I'm not my entire family is Croatian so am I, period.
> The same goes for Caitlyn IMO. If she considers herself a woman then she is a woman, that's all there is to it. Who am I to tell her whether she's a man or a woman???
> She knows best who she is and her genitals are irrelevant, IMO.




Yep!!!! I totally agree!!!!


----------



## dangerouscurves

FreeSpirit71 said:


> *TRANSGENDER NAMES, PRONOUN USAGE & DESCRIPTIONS*
> 
> Always use a transgender person's chosen name.
> 
> Many transgender people are able to obtain a legal name change from a court. However, some transgender people cannot afford a legal name change or are not yet old enough to change their name legally. They should be afforded the same respect for their chosen name as anyone else who lives by a name other than their birth name (e.g., celebrities).
> 
> Whenever possible, ask transgender people which pronoun they would like you to use.
> 
> A person who identifies as a certain gender, whether or not that person has taken hormones or had some form of surgery, should be referred to using the pronouns appropriate for that gender.
> 
> If it is not possible to ask a transgender person which pronoun is preferred, use the pronoun that is consistent with the person's appearance and gender expression.
> 
> For example, if a person wears a dress and uses the name Susan, feminine pronouns are usually appropriate.
> It is never appropriate to put quotation marks around either a transgender person's chosen name or the pronoun that reflects that person's gender identity.
> 
> 
> When describing transgender people, please use the correct term or terms to describe their gender identity.
> For example, a person who was assigned male at birth and transitions to living as a woman is a transgender woman, whereas a person who was assigned female at birth and transitions to living as a man is a transgender man. If someone prefers a different term, use it along with an explanation of what that term means to them.
> 
> 
> *TERMS TO AVOID
> 
> Problematic Terms*
> 
> *Problematic*: "transgenders," "a transgender"
> Preferred: transgender people, a transgender person
> Transgender should be used as an adjective, not as a noun. Do not say, "Tony is a transgender," or "The parade included many transgenders." Instead say, "Tony is a transgender man," or "The parade included many transgender people."
> 
> *Problematic*: "transgendered"
> Preferred: transgender
> The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, and bisexual. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."
> 
> *Problematic*: "transgenderism"
> Preferred: none
> This is not a term commonly used by transgender people. This is a term used by anti-transgender activists to dehumanize transgender people and reduce who they are to "a condition." Refer to being transgender instead, or refer to the transgender community. You can also refer to the movement for transgender equality.
> 
> *Problematic*: "sex change," "pre-operative," "post-operative"
> Preferred: transition
> Referring to a "sex-change operation," or using terms such as "pre-operative" or "post-operative," inaccurately suggests that one must have surgery in order to transition. Avoid overemphasizing surgery when discussing transgender people or the process of transition.
> 
> *Problematic*: "biologically male," "biologically female," "genetically male," "genetically female," "born a man," "born a woman"
> Preferred: assigned male at birth, assigned female at birth or designated male at birth, designated female at birth
> 
> Problematic phrases like those above are reductive and overly-simplify a very complex subject. As mentioned above, a person's sex is determined by a number of factors - not simply genetics - and one's biology does not "*****" one's gender identity. Finally, people are born babies - they are not "born a man" or "born a woman."
> 
> *Defamatory Terms
> 
> Defamatory:* "deceptive," "fooling," "pretending," "posing," "trap," or "masquerading"
> 
> Gender identity is an integral part of a person's identity. Do not characterize transgender people as "deceptive," as "fooling" or "trapping" others, or as "pretending" to be, "posing" or "masquerading" as a man or a woman. Such descriptions are defamatory and insulting.
> 
> *Defamatory: "tranny," "she-male," "he/she," "it," "shim"*
> These words dehumanize transgender people and should not be used. The criteria for using these derogatory terms should be the same as those applied to vulgar epithets used to target other groups:
> 
> *Defamatory: "bathroom bill"*
> A term created and used by far-right extremists to oppose non-discrimination laws that protect transgender people. The term is geared to incite fear and panic at the thought of encountering transgender people in public restrooms.
> 
> Source:http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender




Thank you!!!!!


----------



## MJDaisy

Croatia said:


> It drives me crazy when people are trying to tell me who I am. I'm Croatian but I was born and raised in France. And there are always people telling me that I'm french. I'm sorry but I'm not my entire family is Croatian so am I, period.
> The same goes for Caitlyn IMO. If she considers herself a woman then she is a woman, that's all there is to it. Who am I to tell her whether she's a man or a woman???
> She knows best who she is and her genitals are irrelevant, IMO.



agree 100% with you. Good post.


----------



## salmaash

GaitreeS said:


> Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to someone like Bruce/Caitlyn. We all have things in our lives that we have to deal with and still be kind to our friends, family, children, spouse etc. It can't be said I was a crappy human being because I was dealing with my gender issues, that sounds like an excuse to me.
> 
> Also if people choose to support him that's great. I don't and I have issue saying that. I care Bruce/Caitlyn as much as I care about any human who is not in my family, but I still think he doesn't know who he wants to be. I'm going to say something and I REALLY don't mean to be offensive, so I'm apologising in advance to anyone who might be offended.
> 
> Bruce can never truly be a woman. He will never truly know the joy and the sorry of being a woman. Women are wonderfully intricate creation, we are not all the same, but there is a something so unique and powerful about women that I truly admire and love. Being a woman is more than physical appearance, hair, make up, clothes, shoes that's just a part of it. We can't reduce womanhood to mere physical aspects. Whether you believe in evolution or creation each woman presents a certain power (if she knows it or not) and mystery that I think cannot be replicated.
> 
> #my2cents #justmyopinion #Iloveyouall
> 
> Exits thread.


I have to agree with you, women today are reduced to physical aspect when we are more than that !


----------



## nycmom

As always, I loved Jon Stewart's take on it all, scroll down below the synopsis for a video link to the segment...

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-...-over-caitlyn-jenners-comparative-fckability/


----------



## blackkitty4378

nycmom said:


> As always, I loved Jon Stewart's take on it all, scroll down below the synopsis for a video link to the segment...
> 
> http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-...-over-caitlyn-jenners-comparative-fckability/



His show is still on?! I thought he left it or it got canceled or something. I loved his show.


----------



## nycmom

He announced he is leaving this August (Trevor Noah will be taking over in Sepetmber).


----------



## Livia1

nycmom said:


> As always, I loved Jon Stewart's take on it all, scroll down below the synopsis for a video link to the segment...
> 
> http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-...-over-caitlyn-jenners-comparative-fckability/




Jon Stewart, you are freaking awesome


----------



## Sassys

For those of you complaining about a trans man to woman in the bathroom, uh bathrooms have stalls with doors. So you wouldn't know what was going on in that stall anyway. I had a coworker who started at the company as a man and transitioned to a woman. Two women in my company went off on her when she used the restroom while they were in there. I thought they were beyond stupid, because "Vanessa" was in the stall and they would not have known until she came out to wash her hands.

How many of us women have been to a mall, arena, concert and the woman's restroom line was out of control long, yet no one on the men's line and walked right in to use their bathroom. I've done it plenty of times. There are stalls in bathrooms (yes, the men's bathrooms have stalls). You have no idea what someone is doing in a stall and can't see what is going on under their clothes.


----------



## ebonyone

salmaash said:


> I have to agree with you, women today are reduced to physical aspect when we are more than that !



I agree with you, he does not represent women.


----------



## lizmil

Jon Stewart was right in so many ways.


----------



## Eva1991

Sassys said:


> For those of you complaining about a trans man to woman in the bathroom, uh bathrooms have stalls with doors. So you wouldn't know what was going on in that stall anyway. I had a coworker who started at the company as a man and transitioned to a woman. Two women in my company went off on her when she used the restroom while they were in there. I thought they were beyond stupid, because "Vanessa" was in the stall and they would not have known until she came out to wash her hands.
> 
> How many of us women have been to a mall, arena, concert and the woman's restroom line was out of control long, yet no one on the men's line and walked right in to use their bathroom. I've done it plenty of times. There are stalls in bathrooms (yes, the men's bathrooms have stalls). You have no idea what someone is doing in a stall and can't see what is going on under their clothes.



+1. 

I have used the men's restroom in past (the waiting line for the women's restroom was insane) and had no problem with it. Neither did the men who were in there washing their hands, when I explained to them that I couldn't wait half an hour in the other line. Long story short, I don't get why it bothers some women if someone with male genitals is using the women's bathroom. There are stalls in ALL restrooms and there's no way anyone would know what's going on behind them.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

pjhm said:


> Did Caitlyn ever explain why Bruce kept marrying after each divorce?.. That is the only part I do not understand. He broke up with linda Thompson because of it and then dated, wooed, and married another woman......?She may feel like a woman inside but still thinks like a selfish, self-centered man.



I agree.
I also think it was in bad taste to show him/herself to the public for the first time wearing lingerie. That sure didn't help his/her cause any.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

In reference to the names/pronouns that should and should not be used, someone needs to fill Bruce in on that. He stills refers to Caitlyn as *her.* It's as though he's not even taking him/her own self seriously. Why does he not just say *me* when speaking?


----------



## Jikena

http://fr.eonline.com/news/662536/caitlyn-jenner-starring-in-new-e-docu-series-i-am-cait


----------



## kittenslingerie

Coach Lover Too said:


> In reference to the names/pronouns that should and should not be used, someone needs to fill Bruce in on that. He stills refers to Caitlyn as *her.* It's as though he's not even taking him/her own self seriously. Why does he not just say *me* when speaking?



Exactly, its kind of mentally off like a split personality to refer to yourself as "her" all the while giggling.


----------



## tennisplyr91

Coach Lover Too said:


> In reference to the names/pronouns that should and should not be used, someone needs to fill Bruce in on that. He stills refers to Caitlyn as *her.* It's as though he's not even taking him/her own self seriously. Why does he not just say *me* when speaking?




I would love to meet you and take you out for a cup of coffee. I would love to pick your brain. You seem like a very interesting person to get to know!


----------



## Sassys

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Who are you to tell someone how to be transgender? Or how to be the right kind of transgender that's acceptable to you? There are many who don't undergo the full surgery for a spectrum of reasons.
> 
> This is not a black and white area and there are many well-written posts by people better versed in the surgery than me, right here on this thread


 
Thank You



redney said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Some of these posts....SMH.


 
I swear the ignorance on this thread. I would not be surprised if the same people have _xx inappropriate_


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tennisplyr91 said:


> I would love to meet you and take you out for a cup of coffee. I would love to pick your brain. You seem like a very interesting person to get to know!



Thank you. I think.


----------



## glamourous1098

Coach Lover Too said:


> In reference to the names/pronouns that should and should not be used, someone needs to fill Bruce in on that. He stills refers to Caitlyn as *her.* It's as though he's not even taking him/her own self seriously. Why does he not just say *me* when speaking?



Maybe she's just adapting to being able to openly identify as a woman.  For a long time it must have felt like there was a distinct split between how she was living versus how she felt.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> I swear the ignorance on this thread. I would not be surprised if the same people have confederate flags and Nazi memorabilia hanging in their homes.



Really? Because someone may disagree with you or question the choices that are being made and you have the audacity to compare them to Nazi's? 
Wow. Just wow.
Now it's my turn to smdh.


----------



## SpeedyJC

Luvbolide said:


> I am not in any way criticizing you, but this article makes my head spin.  For one thing, I thought that as part of the transitioning process, it is important for the individual to live as the gender that they are transitioning to.  So Caitlyn should live as a woman - and use the woman's restroom and other facilities at the golf club.  It would make a mockery of everything to me if she could continue to be "one of the guys" in every sense but her outward appearance.
> 
> I worked in an office - about 20 years ago - and one of the young men who had worked there for years transitioned to female,  our office had about 150 employees, so pretty small, but we were told about what was happening and to expect that, among other things, he would be using the ladies' restroom.  Took a bit of adjustment for all, but the point was that he was becoming a woman and living as a woman.
> 
> And how the holy h*ll is Florida going to try to enforce a law like that?  Will the ladies' rooms have a fan to blow up skirts as one enters?!?!
> 
> Sometimes I am really glad that I live where I do...


 

Oh I know I totally agree with you but many people do not feel that way. I was wondering how this would be enforced too. I guess it wouldn't really affect the random transgender who walks into a store and uses the bathroom but it would more so affect those who are in a building where its known they are transgender be it a school, gym they frequent or work place. We had a client who was transgender not too long ago and  like Caitlyn she didn't have the full transition surgery. When she asked where the ladies room was I didn't think twice before pointing her in the proper direction. I couldn't imagine saying to her sorry but you have to use the mens room.




Coach Lover Too said:


> Really? Because someone may disagree with you or question the choices that are being made and you have the audacity to compare them to Nazi's?
> Wow. Just wow.
> Now it's my turn to smdh.




Yeah that is a tad bit extreme.


----------



## ByeKitty

I rolled my eyes hard both at the list of "offensive things to say" ("don't say _a transgender_, say _a transgender person_!!") and the comments saying something along the lines that Caitlyn will never, or only after penis removal, be a woman.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> Really? Because someone may disagree with you or question the choices that are being made and you have the audacity to compare them to Nazi's?
> Wow. Just wow.
> Now it's my turn to smdh.


 
You have been bashing Caitlyn from the moment she was announced. The year is 2015, times are changing, move on with the times. Stop bashing this poor woman, who has already been through so much. Yes, we gossip about celebs and bash them for their silliness, but this issue is not funny. You may not understand it, but stop bashing her. What some of you are doing is not different than racism. Stop treating her like a second class citizen the way blacks were treated in the 50's & 60's and the way Jews were treated.


----------



## tennisplyr91

Sassys said:


> You have been bashing Caitlyn from the moment she was announced. The year is 2015, times are changing, move on with the times. Stop bashing this poor woman, who has already been through so much. Yes, we gossip about celebs and bash them for their silliness, but this issue is not funny. You may not understand it, but stop bashing her. What some of you are doing is not different than racism. Stop treating her like a second class citizen the way blacks were treated in the 50's & 60's and the way Jews were treated.



Stop waisting your energy trying to convince people to agree with you. The reality is, most people won't change their point of views until they have a real-life experience or something happens that directly affects them. Just know that at the end of times, we will know who treated people with kindness and tolerance, and who promoted bigotry and hatred.


----------



## kcf68

Uhm I thought this was a forum where we could voice our opinion and not bash each other!   Everybody is different and everybody does not have to be in agreement with each other!   After all it is 2015!


----------



## SpeedyJC

Sassys said:


> For those of you complaining about a trans man to woman in the bathroom, uh bathrooms have stalls with doors. So you wouldn't know what was going on in that stall anyway. I had a coworker who started at the company as a man and transitioned to a woman. Two women in my company went off on her when she used the restroom while they were in there. I thought they were beyond stupid, because "Vanessa" was in the stall and they would not have known until she came out to wash her hands.
> 
> How many of us women have been to a mall, arena, concert and the woman's restroom line was out of control long, yet no one on the men's line and walked right in to use their bathroom. I've done it plenty of times. There are stalls in bathrooms (yes, the men's bathrooms have stalls). You have no idea what someone is doing in a stall and can't see what is going on under their clothes.


 
There is a restaurant I go to in the city called Smiths and its actually a co-ed bathroom. I remember when I first went to the place I didn't realize it was co-ed and some big guy came walking in. At first it startled me so I ran out to look at the sign because I thought I was in the men's room, the sign showed that it was both male/female. It was just a bunch of stalls and it really was no big deal sharing so I do not personally see the big deal with sharing a bathroom with someone who is transgender. You are right about not knowing what goes on in the stall next to you and really who wants to know?


----------



## Sassys

tennisplyr91 said:


> Stop waisting your energy trying to convince people to agree with you. The reality is, most people won't change their point of views until they have a real-life experience or something happens that directly affects them. Just know that at the end of times, we will know who treated people with kindness and tolerance, and who promoted bigotry and hatred.


 
Agree. Just reading these post really got under my skin. As a child with a black mother and white father, I am very sensitive to people treating others like they don't belong. I can't tolerate racism or bigotry and treating a person who is transgendered the way some are treating this issue is no different than racism IMO.


----------



## Sassys

kcf68 said:


> Uhm I thought this was a forum where we could voice our opinion and not bash each other!   Everybody is different and everybody does not have to be in agreement with each other!   After all it is 2015!


 
You are right it is 2015, and people need to open their eyes to changes in the world. We are not in the year 1910 or 1950.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I can relate to this person's confusion and questions.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/becoming-caitlyn-jenner-no-cheap-feat-100-000-174700825.html

Andrew                     5 hours ago
                                                           Here's what I don't understand.  Why is it that  people like Bruce Jenner see their bodies as a problem as opposed to  their mental states?  It is simply not normal to "hate" your body parts.   Sure, many people might wish they weighed a bit less or had a bit more  hair, but when you start making plans to radically alter your body  through surgery and unnatural means (such as taking hormones of the  opposite sex), shouldn't this be seen as a red flag?  

There has to be an underlying reason why some people think they want to  changes sexes.  For a man to say he would be happier as a woman suggests  that he thinks being a woman would allow him to do something (or  things) that a man could not do.  But what would that be?  Ultimately,  "sex-change" operations are cosmetic.  Doctors cannot turn a man into a  woman or vice versa, they can simply make a man look like a woman.  That  man will still genetically be male, and he will not be able to bear  children or have a period, and so on.  

Therefore, a man who has surgery to make himself appear to be a woman  will not actually "gain" anything from this cosmetic change.  This being  the case, isn't it far more sensible for such a man to get some  counseling or therapy to ascertain the root of his unhappiness as  opposed to spending large amounts of money on a harmful process that can  basically be described as mutilation?  

I just don't understand why so many "transgender" individuals choose to  mutilate their own bodies instead of seeking help to accept themselves  as they are.


----------



## Coco Belle

tennisplyr91 said:


> Stop waisting your energy trying to convince people to agree with you. The reality is, most people won't change their point of views until they have a real-life experience or something happens that directly affects them.



Agreed. Everyone here who's showing their a$$ with certain comments, it's simply that they don't have the knowledge and most importantly the experience that others may have.

All one can do is try to offer information. People have to make their own choices about whether they want to be educated.


----------



## prettyprincess

Sassys said:


> Thank You
> 
> 
> 
> I swear the ignorance on this thread. I would not be surprised if the same people have confederate flags and Nazi memorabilia hanging in their homes.



Eew, did you really just say that??


----------



## kcf68

Sassys said:


> You are right it is 2015, and people need to open their eyes to changes in the world. We are not in the year 1910 or 1950.



I come from a very conservative family and do not agree with them at all on some of their views  and as long as they are not hurting anyone physically,  I respect their view point!  They think I am a black sheep but who cares it is 2015!


----------



## exotikittenx

FreeSpirit71 said:


> *TRANSGENDER NAMES, PRONOUN USAGE & DESCRIPTIONS*
> 
> Always use a transgender person's chosen name.
> 
> Many transgender people are able to obtain a legal name change from a court. However, some transgender people cannot afford a legal name change or are not yet old enough to change their name legally. They should be afforded the same respect for their chosen name as anyone else who lives by a name other than their birth name (e.g., celebrities).
> 
> Whenever possible, ask transgender people which pronoun they would like you to use.
> 
> A person who identifies as a certain gender, whether or not that person has taken hormones or had some form of surgery, should be referred to using the pronouns appropriate for that gender.
> 
> If it is not possible to ask a transgender person which pronoun is preferred, use the pronoun that is consistent with the person's appearance and gender expression.
> 
> For example, if a person wears a dress and uses the name Susan, feminine pronouns are usually appropriate.
> It is never appropriate to put quotation marks around either a transgender person's chosen name or the pronoun that reflects that person's gender identity.
> 
> 
> When describing transgender people, please use the correct term or terms to describe their gender identity.
> For example, a person who was assigned male at birth and transitions to living as a woman is a transgender woman, whereas a person who was assigned female at birth and transitions to living as a man is a transgender man. If someone prefers a different term, use it along with an explanation of what that term means to them.
> 
> 
> *TERMS TO AVOID
> 
> Problematic Terms*
> 
> *Problematic*: "transgenders," "a transgender"
> Preferred: transgender people, a transgender person
> Transgender should be used as an adjective, not as a noun. Do not say, "Tony is a transgender," or "The parade included many transgenders." Instead say, "Tony is a transgender man," or "The parade included many transgender people."
> 
> *Problematic*: "transgendered"
> Preferred: transgender
> The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, and bisexual. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."
> 
> *Problematic*: "transgenderism"
> Preferred: none
> This is not a term commonly used by transgender people. This is a term used by anti-transgender activists to dehumanize transgender people and reduce who they are to "a condition." Refer to being transgender instead, or refer to the transgender community. You can also refer to the movement for transgender equality.
> 
> *Problematic*: "sex change," "pre-operative," "post-operative"
> Preferred: transition
> Referring to a "sex-change operation," or using terms such as "pre-operative" or "post-operative," inaccurately suggests that one must have surgery in order to transition. Avoid overemphasizing surgery when discussing transgender people or the process of transition.
> 
> *Problematic*: "biologically male," "biologically female," "genetically male," "genetically female," "born a man," "born a woman"
> Preferred: assigned male at birth, assigned female at birth or designated male at birth, designated female at birth
> 
> Problematic phrases like those above are reductive and overly-simplify a very complex subject. As mentioned above, a person's sex is determined by a number of factors - not simply genetics - and one's biology does not "*****" one's gender identity. Finally, people are born babies - they are not "born a man" or "born a woman."
> 
> *Defamatory Terms
> 
> Defamatory:* "deceptive," "fooling," "pretending," "posing," "trap," or "masquerading"
> 
> Gender identity is an integral part of a person's identity. Do not characterize transgender people as "deceptive," as "fooling" or "trapping" others, or as "pretending" to be, "posing" or "masquerading" as a man or a woman. Such descriptions are defamatory and insulting.
> 
> *Defamatory: "tranny," "she-male," "he/she," "it," "shim"*
> These words dehumanize transgender people and should not be used. The criteria for using these derogatory terms should be the same as those applied to vulgar epithets used to target other groups:
> 
> *Defamatory: "bathroom bill"*
> A term created and used by far-right extremists to oppose non-discrimination laws that protect transgender people. The term is geared to incite fear and panic at the thought of encountering transgender people in public restrooms.
> 
> Source:http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender




Thank you for this.  Some of it, I wasn't even aware of, so I'll be sure to use proper terminology!


----------



## GaitreeS

Thank you for the support...and to the one person who didn't that's completely ok. I believe in live and let live. I have no hate for anyone. 

I was listening to Don Lemon and I thought the trans gender person on the panel summarized "Caitlyn Jenner" beautifully..."it's a product roll out". Self first, getting paid etc. if someone is "inspired" by this then so be it. He really is a "Kardashian" even she says that's not the case.

Anyway, I have never bought whatever the Kardashian/Jenner are selling 

Peace out lovelies!


----------



## Sassys

kcf68 said:


> I come from a very conservative family and do not agree with them at all on some of their views  and as long as they are not hurting anyone physically,  I respect their view point!  They think I am a black sheep but who cares it is 2015!


 
I have not seen you bash anyone on this thread. I have not seen you say "He will never be a woman, because she has a penis". I have not heard you say, "no way she can be that pretty, it must be photoshop" (which is also used on born women). You don't have to agree, and that is fine. But the second class citizen bashing is just harsh. 

You have not been harsh (That I have seen on this thread).


----------



## kcf68

If I was transgendered, quite frankly, I can't say I'd be pleased that it was a member of the Kardashian Klan (for all intents and purposes) who was bringing the issue to light. It turns a very real issue into a joke of a three-ring media circus.[/QUOTE]

This All day!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

kcf68 said:


> Uhm I thought this was a forum where we could voice our opinion and not bash each other!   Everybody is different and everybody does not have to be in agreement with each other!   After all it is 2015!



There's rules for Pro Bruce/Caitlyn and then there's the rules for the rest.
I  don't think the old saying *if you can't say something nice, don't say  anything at all* should apply to this thread. There's differences of  opinions and they should ALL be allowed. If Bruce/Caitlyn weren't treating the whole thing like a joke, then it might be easier to take it a little more serious.
When he/she says he/s doing it to help the community, I strongly disagree....and the last time I checked, that was my right to do so.

I don't see any bashing being done to the Bruce/Caitlyn supporters but there's plenty of name calling and insulting for those that question his choices. Imagine that.


----------



## Jayne1

kcf68 said:


> Uhm I thought this was a forum where we could voice our opinion and not bash each other!   Everybody is different and everybody does not have to be in agreement with each other!   After all it is 2015!


I think it's great we all have a difference of opinion. 

I wish we wouldn't shame others for theirs.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> There's rules for Pro Bruce/Caitlyn and then there's the rules for the rest.
> I  don't think the old saying *if you can't say something nice, don't say  anything at all* should apply to this thread. There's differences of  opinions and they should ALL be allowed. If Bruce/Caitlyn weren't treating the whole thing like a joke, then it might be easier to take it a little more serious.
> When he/she says he/s doing it to help the community, I strongly disagree....and the last time I checked, that was my right to do so.
> 
> I don't see any bashing being done to the Bruce/Caitlyn supporters but there's plenty of name calling and insulting for those that question his choices. Imagine that.


 
IMO, you are saying mean things in a sly manner. You, have not come out and said, she/he is nasty and this is gross, but you do say it in a subtle way, that most of us here see right through. Again, my opinion.

There is a difference between, who her dress is tacky or her hair looks like crap or her make-up is horrible (they way we gossip about all celebs). This woman has been hurting for years and millions like her are still suffering.


----------



## kcf68

Jayne1 said:


> I think it's great we all have a difference of opinion.
> 
> I wish we wouldn't shame others for theirs.


Exactly!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> IMO, you are saying mean things in a sly manner. You, have not come out and said, she/he is nasty and this is gross, but you do say it in a subtle way, that most of us here see right through. Again, my opinion.
> 
> There is a difference between, who her dress is tacky or her hair looks like crap or her make-up is horrible (they way we gossip about all celebs). This woman has been hurting for years and millions like her are still suffering.



But referring to someone as a Nazi is ok? Got it.


----------



## prettyprincess

Coach Lover Too said:


> There's rules for Pro Bruce/Caitlyn and then there's the rules for the rest.
> I  don't think the old saying *if you can't say something nice, don't say  anything at all* should apply to this thread. There's differences of  opinions and they should ALL be allowed. If Bruce/Caitlyn weren't treating the whole thing like a joke, then it might be easier to take it a little more serious.
> When he/she says he/s doing it to help the community, I strongly disagree....and the last time I checked, that was my right to do so.
> 
> I don't see any bashing being done to the Bruce/Caitlyn supporters but there's plenty of name calling and insulting for those that question his choices. Imagine that.




Be careful what you say, you may get compared to Joseph Goebbels next...


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> But referring to someone as a Nazi is ok? Got it.


 
How is treating people like second class citizen any different from a Nazi or the KKK?

Educate yourself.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

prettyprincess said:


> Be careful what you say, you may get compared to Joseph Goebbels next...



Yea, nothing would surprise me at this point.


----------



## Coco Belle

Coach Lover Too said:


> I can relate to this person's confusion and questions.
> 
> https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/becoming-caitlyn-jenner-no-cheap-feat-100-000-174700825.html
> 
> Andrew                     5 hours ago
> Here's what I don't understand.  Why is it that  people like Bruce Jenner see their bodies as a problem as opposed to  their mental states?  It is simply not normal to "hate" your body parts.   Sure, many people might wish they weighed a bit less or had a bit more  hair, but when you start making plans to radically alter your body  through surgery and unnatural means (such as taking hormones of the  opposite sex), shouldn't this be seen as a red flag?
> 
> There has to be an underlying reason why some people think they want to  changes sexes.  For a man to say he would be happier as a woman suggests  that he thinks being a woman would allow him to do something (or  things) that a man could not do.  But what would that be?  Ultimately,  "sex-change" operations are cosmetic.  Doctors cannot turn a man into a  woman or vice versa, they can simply make a man look like a woman.  That  man will still genetically be male, and he will not be able to bear  children or have a period, and so on.
> 
> Therefore, a man who has surgery to make himself appear to be a woman  will not actually "gain" anything from this cosmetic change.  This being  the case, isn't it far more sensible for such a man to get some  counseling or therapy to ascertain the root of his unhappiness as  opposed to spending large amounts of money on a harmful process that can  basically be described as mutilation?
> 
> I just don't understand why so many "transgender" individuals choose to  mutilate their own bodies instead of seeking help to accept themselves  as they are.



I can see why the person is confused. He doesn't know that there is a part of the human brain that governs gender identity - that tells you that you're a man or woman. Note, one's genitals do not affect what this part of the brain tells you. The unfortunate truth is that you can have a penis and also have a brain that screams all your life that you're female.

Sometimes this is because the person has a genetic difference (eg they are xxy) but sometimes it's entirely a brain thing. It's just bad luck of birth.

The only comfort such a person may have is to at least change their outsides to resemble their insides. At least then they don't have to look at the penis that other people have decided should rule their lives. AND sometimes if they do transition they can also find a partner who wouldn't be comfortable with a remaining penis.

It all depends... do you believe that external appearance should be the governing factor in a persons identity? Or is it what's in the heart and mind that ought to be the deciding factor? I think that the presence of a penis shouldn't force anyone to take on the identity of male. I am too familiar with so many cases where the person has a penis but is later found to have female chromosomes... it would be cruel to force that person to be male just because other choices don't sit well with US.

Gender and sex are fields that are so rich with new research. Our knowledge changes day to day. I'm not confident that we should force anyone to take on a particular identity just because WE don't yet understand where they might fit on the newly discovered landscape of rare and previously unknown configurations of male/female/intersex.


----------



## kcf68

Coach Lover Too said:


> There's rules for Pro Bruce/Caitlyn and then there's the rules for the rest.
> I  don't think the old saying *if you can't say something nice, don't say  anything at all* should apply to this thread. There's differences of  opinions and they should ALL be allowed. If Bruce/Caitlyn weren't treating the whole thing like a joke, then it might be easier to take it a little more serious.
> When he/she says he/s doing it to help the community, I strongly disagree....and the last time I checked, that was my right to do so.
> 
> I don't see any bashing being done to the Bruce/Caitlyn supporters but there's plenty of name calling and insulting for those that question his choices. Imagine that.


You have every right to your opinion!  There are many people that agree with you and I don't think you are wrong for it!


----------



## tennisplyr91

kcf68 said:


> If I was transgendered, quite frankly, I can't say I'd be pleased that it was a member of the Kardashian Klan (for all intents and purposes) who was bringing the issue to light. It turns a very real issue into a joke of a three-ring media circus.





This All day![/QUOTE]


Thats your opinion 100%.

Other people for instance, might say that this is a blessing, since the Kardashians have an outstanding platform with massive reach to worldwide audiences, that are helping educate people on this issue.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> How is treating people like second class citizen any different from a Nazi or the KKK?



If you think questioning Bruce's reasons behind his choices, calling him a bad father and him blaming Kris and everyone else for all his shortcomings is treating him like a second class citizen,then you too have some learning to do.
If you're expecting me to build a shrine in his honor then you're going to have a long wait.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

kcf68 said:


> You have every right to your opinion!  There are many people that agree with you and I don't think you are wrong for it!



Thank you.
I can see why people are hesitant about posting here. This thread should come with a waning:

*Beware, if you don't think Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is the best thing since sliced bread, there's going to be hell to pay!*


----------



## Coco Belle

Coach Lover Too said:


> If you think questioning Bruce's reasons behind his choices, calling him a bad father and him blaming Kris and everyone else for all his shortcomings is treating him like a second class citizen,then you too have some learning to do.
> If you're expecting me to build a shrine in his honor then you're going to have a long wait.



Coach, I think the response you're getting doesn't have to do with those issues (of Caitlin being a bad parent etc)

I don't think you realize but some of the things you've expressed (like identifying with the confusion of the man who commented above)... those are views that many very bigoted and nasty individuals use to call Trans people gross, unnatural, sick, etc. So certain people in this thread are getting their backs up because they're feeling defensive on behalf of ALL Trans people. It's not actually about Caitlyn.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Coco Belle said:


> I can see why the person is confused. He doesn't know that there is a part of the human brain that governs gender identity - that tells you that you're a man or woman. Note, one's genitals do not affect what this part of the brain tells you. The unfortunate truth is that you can have a penis and also have a brain that screams all your life that you're female.
> 
> Sometimes this is because the person has a genetic difference (eg they are xxy) but sometimes it's entirely a brain thing. It's just bad luck of birth.
> 
> The only comfort such a person may have is to at least change their outsides to resemble their insides. At least then they don't have to look at the penis that other people have decided should rule their lives. AND sometimes if they do transition they can also find a partner who wouldn't be comfortable with a remaining penis.
> 
> It all depends... do you believe that external appearance should be the governing factor in a persons identity? Or is it what's in the heart and mind that ought to be the deciding factor? I think that the presence of a penis shouldn't force anyone to take on the identity of male. I am too familiar with so many cases where the person has a penis but is later found to have female chromosomes... it would be cruel to force that person to be male just because other choices don't sit well with US.
> 
> Gender and sex are fields that are so rich with new research. Our knowledge changes day to day. I'm not confident that we should force anyone to take on a particular identity just because WE don't yet understand where they might fit on the newly discovered landscape of rare and previously unknown configurations of male/female/intersex.



Thank you for taking the time to explain.
I think a lot of people are confusing my disdain for Bruce (in general and not the fact that he considers himself transgender) to disdain for transgender people as a whole, and that could *NOT* be further from the truth. I can't help but think he's making a mockery of the transgender community. <<<<<MY OPINION


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Coco Belle said:


> Coach, I think the response you're getting doesn't have to do with those issues (of Caitlin being a bad parent etc)
> 
> I don't think you realize but some of the things you've expressed (like identifying with the confusion of the man who commented above)... those are views that many very bigoted and nasty individuals use to call Trans people gross, unnatural, sick, etc. So certain people in this thread are getting their backs up because they're feeling defensive on behalf of ALL Trans people. It's not actually about Caitlyn.



You and I must have been posting at the exact same time, because my recent comment was directed towards this very thing.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I wish the transgender people on here could separate themselves from Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and not take the comments that are directed *towards Bruce*, so personal.
Their lives and the choices they have made have nothing to do with the way I feel about Bruce as a person, be it male or female.

I hope that makes sense.


----------



## SpeedyJC

ByeKitty said:


> I rolled my eyes hard both at the list of "offensive things to say" ("don't say _a transgender_, say _a transgender person_!!") and the comments saying something along the lines that Caitlyn will never, or only after penis removal, be a woman.


 
Im not sure if my comment is one that you are mentioning or not but I do not think everyone who said she wont be considered a woman until after having the surgery was being offensive or is a Nazi or whatever words are flying here. I am one of those people who said that and I was talking strictly from a legal stand point only. From a personal standpoint I consider Caitlyn a woman. However if Caitlyn were to go jail without the surgery she would be housed with men.  Those who are transgenders need more laws to protect them from stuff like this but sadly many bills are being thought up to do just the opposite.


----------



## prettyprincess

Sassys said:


> How is treating people like second class citizen any different from a Nazi or the KKK?
> 
> Educate yourself.
> 
> Maybe its you that should educate yourself on what Nazis did. When you do, you'll understand how preposterous is to compare comments written on a GOSSIP forum to killing millions upon millions of people.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

prettyprincess said:


> Sassys said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is treating people like second class citizen any different from a Nazi or the KKK?
> 
> Educate yourself.
> 
> Maybe its you that should educate yourself on what Nazis did. When you do, you'll understand how preposterous is to compare comments written on a GOSSIP forum to killing millions upon millions of people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> I got a pm from admin for posting the word sh*m, didn't even use the word, just stated that I'd seen it used before and was told that wasn't allowed, but comparing a poster to a Nazi is? Uh, ok.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sassys

prettyprincess said:


> Maybe its you that should educate yourself on what Nazis did. When you do, you'll understand how preposterous is to compare comments written on a GOSSIP forum to killing millions upon millions of people.


 
I love how you keep focusing on the word Nazi, but yet never mention I also used the term KKK. They both killed and mistreated people because THEY felt they were different. Why is the word Nazi so harsh, but KKK isn't?


----------



## DesigningStyle

Sassys said:


> For those of you complaining about a trans man to woman in the bathroom, uh bathrooms have stalls with doors. .... There are stalls in bathrooms (yes, the men's bathrooms have stalls). You have no idea what someone is doing in a stall and can't see what is going on under their clothes.



If I am pulling my pants down in a public restroom stall with the sign on the door stating WOMEN I am sorry, but I do not want a p***s on the other side of the stall.  I just don't.  And, if I am in my gym's locker room changing, I do not want the person next to me having male parts.  I really don't think that is odd. 



Sassys said:


> ...I swear the ignorance on this thread. I would not be surprised if the same people have confederate flags and Nazi memorabilia hanging in their homes.



SMH.



Sassys said:


> I have not seen you bash anyone on this thread. I have not seen you say "He will never be a woman, because she has a penis". I have not heard you say, "no way she can be that pretty, it must be photoshop" (which is also used on born women). You don't have to agree, and that is fine. But the second class citizen bashing is just harsh.
> 
> You have not been harsh (That I have seen on this thread).



Please evaluate all our posts and judge us on your harshness scale.  Sorry, but this is a public forum and a celeb gossip thread.  We are having a conversation here.  We are all learning.  I promise you that some thoughts and opinions that I have posted...whether about a celeb or a handbag ("I don't like that bag") for that matter change over time--sometimes within 24 hours of posting!  (Now the "I don't like that bag" is my HG!)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> prettyprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love how you keep focusing on the word Nazi, but yet never mention I also used the term KKK. They both killed and mistreated people because THEY felt they were different. Why is the word Nazi so harsh, but KKK isn't?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One's just as bad as the other. Want to play semantics?
> Comparing the two of those to comments about Bruce is beyond pale.
> I love how you're now trying to turn this into a racist argument.
Click to expand...


----------



## DesigningStyle

I laughed at this comment on a website, "One other thing, he is probably the only "female" over 60 named Caitlyn."  

Seriously in 1949 the name Bruce was 39th most popular male name.  I think he should have chosen the 39th most popular female name--Pamela.  Just my thought.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> One's just as bad as the other. Want to play semantics?
> Comparing the two of those to comments about Bruce is beyond pale.
> I love how you're now trying to turn this into a racist argument.


 
They way some here are treating/bashing transgendered and Caityln is no different. She is not a second class citizen and should not be treated, made fun the way some have been doing here. I am using the word Nazi and KKK as an example. Racism and Bigotry/ignorance to things that are different to you or what you are familiar with is the same thing.


----------



## Coco Belle

DesigningStyle said:


> If I am pulling my pants down in a public restroom stall with the sign on the door stating WOMEN I am sorry, but I do not want a p***s on the other side of the stall.  I just don't.  And, if I am in my gym's locker room changing, I do not want the person next to me having male parts.  I really don't think that is odd.



What if the person in the next stall has male parts -- but female chromosomes, and has lived as a woman since puberty, so you have no idea the person has male parts? If you found out, how would you feel?


----------



## DesigningStyle

Can someone tell me if it is appropriate to refer to actions and events in Jenner's life prior to his transitioning to Caitlyn with the use of the name "Bruce" and male pronouns?  I mean no disrespect.


----------



## Sassys

DesigningStyle said:


> If I am pulling my pants down in a public restroom stall with the sign on the door stating WOMEN I am sorry, but I do not want a p***s on the other side of the stall.  I just don't.  And, if I am in my gym's locker room changing, I do not want the person next to me having male parts.  I really don't think that is odd.


 
You have no idea what is going on in the stall w/ a door closed.

So you are going to tell me, you would leave the restroom if you saw these women in there. You have no clue, what is going on under their dress. You have no idea, if they were in the lockerroom with a towel wrapped around them, what is under the bottom half of that towel.


----------



## DesigningStyle

I know during Bruce's interview with Diane, Diane asked Bruce point blank if he has been or is today still attracted to women. He said yes and stated, &#8220;Sexuality is who turns you on. But gender identity has to do with your soul,&#8221; He added that that sexually he is and will always been attracted to women. 

I have read that with the hormones many times this changes.  I am guessing he is aware of that and was probably told that by his drs.  Wonder if it will change.


----------



## prettyprincess

Coco Belle said:


> What if the person in the next stall has male parts -- but female chromosomes, and has lived as a woman since puberty, so you have no idea the person has male parts? If you found out, how would you feel?



A rare medical condition is the same as a man who chooses to dress like a woman but produces sperm and has a pen*s?


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

This thread just shows how there's still a long way to go for trans understanding. Be grateful you feel comfortable in your own body and don't have to deal with any of this.


----------



## Sassys

Birdonce said:


> Tolerance of intolerance doesn't make sense. It's okay to say you don't understand it, that you feel uncomfortabke with it, but saying I disagree with who you are and how you are living your life is a fault.
> 
> A PP asked some questions - I'm not hugely versed in the transgender community but have had a transgendered patient and a mother of a transgendered son as a patient. They live lives under enormous stress: the dual identies, the secrets, the risks of violence and social ostracism if they are found out. They may have moments where their courage or their desperation may begin to overcome their knowledge of how horrible things can get, and in those circumstances they may make attempts at transitioning. If they have pushback, or fear, they may not make it initially. They may try to prove the masculinity/femininity.!l they may try to live their lives as they think they should be led, and then fail or crumble under the stresses they have on top of other stresses. They may, when they finally come out, have a period of euphoria and selfishness to make up for the years of self denial.
> 
> Personally, I think Bruce was not the best father or husband. He is not handling his transition perfectly - he is (willfully or ignorantly) ignoring some of the effects his transition is having in his family. But a lot of that is not unexpected. I don't give him a free pass but I understand how and why he might have ****ed up on this really difficult journey. I know I screwed some stuff up ending a bad marriage that wasn't nearly as complicated as what he is dealing with.
> 
> Also , for someone who mentioned this, gender identity and sexual orientation Are separate issues. I don't bekieve Bruce is transitioning because he wants to be with men - he desires women and he is a woman.
> 
> OT, anyone with any curiousitt about this should watch Transparent. The whole show is kooky but even just to watch Jeffery Tambor's scenes is so enlightening


 
Great post! Like I keep saying, Bruce has OWNED his bad parenting.


----------



## Sassys

Kitties Are Cute said:


> This thread just shows how there's still a long way to go for trans understanding. Be lucky you feel comfortable in your own body and don't have to deal with any of this.


 
agree 100%


----------



## DesigningStyle

Coco Belle said:


> What if the person in the next stall has male parts -- but female chromosomes, and has lived as a woman since puberty, so you have no idea the person has male parts? If you found out, how would you feel?



I am not sure.


----------



## momtok

I have no problem with transgendered people.  None at all.  And I do have some experience with the situation ... twice in fact ... once during grad school (a MtF girl that I was friends with for the summer that she was visiting), and now a child at daughter's martial arts school who is clearly headed in that direction.  (Born female, dresses like a boy, referred to by the mother as "son".  I even chat with the mother one-on-one on many occasions, as our daughter is often the one giving him a private lesson.)  I have no problem with LGBT either.  Daughter's godmothers are a lesbian couple who are good friends of the family.  She'll even be in their "making it legal" wedding at the end of this month.  

But I really do not agree with the idea that this thread, to the exclusion of almost all other threads here, deserves kid gloves.  And not just kid gloves, but demands on opinions expressed, verbiage used.  Partially because we're talking about a famous-by-choice person, and even more so because, no, the bashing that goes on in other gossip threads is not just limited to "that dress is tacky".  Situations, decisions, and yes, physical/bodily descriptions are snarked on constantly, both openly and slyly.  Yes, I am well aware that there are transgender people among the tpf population (one of whom I admire, and have watched the transition over my years here).  But tpf is a hell of a big population, and there are probably just as many other participants who mimic those other snarked on situations as well.  The gossip section is what it is, and if one is sensitive, you pretty much enter at your own risk.  (eg, I have two friends who are first-time pregnant right now, and are doing their best to cope as their body changes.   I admit I haven't really been paying attention to their shoe choices lately, but I probably would not refer them to the Kim Kardashian thread right about now.  )

I have no problem with LGBT issues, and I have no problem with the snark that abounds, in genral in the gossip section --- as long as it is applied consistently.  I do think it's a bit presumptuous to demand perfectly polite, perfectly pc discourse in one unique thread, to the exclusion of all others.


----------



## prettyprincess

Sassys said:


> I love how you keep focusing on the word Nazi, but yet never mention I also used the term KKK. They both killed and mistreated people because THEY felt they were different. Why is the word Nazi so harsh, but KKK isn't?



They are equally ridiculous comparisons. Disagreeing on a gossip site likens me to a group of people that used to lynch and burn other people? :okay:


----------



## Coco Belle

prettyprincess said:


> A rare medical condition is the same as a man who chooses to dress like a woman but produces sperm and has a pen*s?



Interesting response. Do you feel that sperm production requires a male identity for life? 

Also, are you aware that new variations on our traditional ideas of sex are being discovered at a rapid rate? There are cases where a person does produce sperm.... but doesn't have xy chromosomes...


----------



## zippie

Why is it okay for people to come on this thread and call posters ignorant, shameful etc.?  I wonder what would happen if I went to the Hermes fur thread and called the posters that wear fur ignorant, shameful - ya think my post would be deleted, you betcha!


----------



## krissa

DesigningStyle said:


> Can someone tell me if it is appropriate to refer to actions and events in Jenner's life prior to his transitioning to Caitlyn with the use of the name "Bruce" and male pronouns?  I mean no disrespect.



I'm guessing, but you can't rewrite history. Bruce Jenner won the Olympics. Caitlyn wasn't formally introduced until 6/1/15. So, since he (I'm referring to sawyer interview) wanted to be considered he until she was introduced everything previously should be considered he/Bruce?!?


----------



## Coco Belle

zippie said:


> Why is it okay for people to come on this thread and call posters ignorant, shameful etc.?  I wonder what would happen if I went to the Hermes fur thread and called the posters that wear fur ignorant, shameful - ya think my post would be deleted, you betcha!



This is a hot button issue and people have a more personal stake in it. I think what we're seeing here is emotional but basically healthy argument, which might lead to some education for all of us.


----------



## momtok

Oh and as for the question of which bathroom, it's a lot more complicated than just, "well, person A will obviously use bathroom B".  I did a quick check, and apparently the topic recently came up in our state, where someone sued to use a particular bathroom, and so far, judges have shot it down.   It's actually a lot more state-determined than I realized.

The profs back at grad school took a unique approach to the problem (mind you, this was over ten years ago).  Those summer research students I referred to were housed in an empty frat house over the summer.  They basically put the born-males on one floor, with their own showers/bathroom, the born-females on another floor, and the transgender student on a different floor.  Not exactly an eloquent solution, but I think they were trying to figure something out that would not violate anyone's privacy.


----------



## gracekelly

lizmil said:


> *It just bugs me when people who preach tolerance are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them. * I never can quite wrap my head around that one.  It seems in that case one should educate, not be intolerant oneself.  Some of the most "tolerant" peole I know are the least "tolerant" of anyone who doesn't see things their way.  On any topic, not just those of this nature.
> 
> I may have stepped into it but  this seems a prime opportunity for civil discourse, so I thought I'd try.



Thank you.


----------



## prettyprincess

Coco Belle said:


> Interesting response. Do you feel that sperm production requires a male identity for life?
> 
> Also, are you aware that new variations on our traditional ideas of sex are being discovered at a rapid rate? There are cases where a person does produce sperm.... but doesn't have xy chromosomes...



He has a pen*s right now, physically, genetically, he is a man. He said that himself.


----------



## Coco Belle

prettyprincess said:


> He has a pen*s right now, physically, genetically, he is a man. He said that himself.



Yes and tomorrow we may find out that chromosomal measures to determine sex have been flawed all along. And Caitlyn actually has a genetic marker that explains her sense that she's female. Would you feel good about using the presence of a penis as a measure of personal identity, in that case?


----------



## DesigningStyle

Let's count the minutes from my posts.  Initially, I wrote, I would be uncomfortable with a p***s in the stall next to me.  Then I posted a reply to a thoughtful poster with an "I am not sure."  Now, after reading this page http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/restroom-faq#Q3  I understand and am fine with sharing a bathroom!  I am learning.  Aren't we all.  Isn't that part of Caitlyn's hope for the world of transgendered people?


----------



## bisousx

Sassys said:


> Thank You
> 
> I swear the ignorance on this thread. I would not be surprised if the same people have confederate flags and Nazi memorabilia hanging in their homes.



Sorry, not really, I had this exact same thought as I was watching Selma last night. How wonderful it would be for some people (not just on this thread but by reading commentary in general) if they could go back to a time where they could openly be hateful and even act upon it. That way, when they run into situations where they can't form a logical train of thought, they wouldn't have to create false dilemmas (how can Bruce be a hero when there are real heroes out there; he must not be TG because he's profiting off interviews, etc.)


----------



## Sassys




----------



## SpeedyJC

DesigningStyle said:


> If I am pulling my pants down in a public restroom stall with the sign on the door stating WOMEN I am sorry, but I do not want a p***s on the other side of the stall.  I just don't.  And, if I am in my gym's locker room changing, I do not want the person next to me having male parts.  I really don't think that is odd.


 
First off I respect you expressing your opinion. With that said using the same bathroom as someone who is transgendered in my opinion isn't really all that big of an issue.  If someone transgendered were to come into the bathroom and use it I guarantee I wouldn't even know actually its probably happened. A transgendered person in their mind is a female so for Caitlyn or whoever  to walk into a mens room probably would  bring on the same uncomfortable feeling that I would have walking into a mens room I would imagine.  

As far as sharing a locker room with Caitlyn I wouldn't change in front of her and I wouldnt want her changing infront of me but that's because I do not feel comfortable changing in front of anyone or anyone changing in front of me regardless, im weird like that.


----------



## DesigningStyle

SpeedyJC said:


> First off I respect you expressing your opinion. With that said using the same bathroom as someone who is transgendered in my opinion isn't really all that big of an issue.  If someone transgendered were to come into the bathroom and use it I guarantee I wouldn't even know actually its probably happened. A transgendered person in their mind is a female so for Caitlyn or whoever  to walk into a mens room probably would  bring on the same uncomfortable feeling that I would have walking into a mens room I would imagine.
> 
> As far as sharing a locker room with Caitlyn I wouldn't change in front of her and I wouldnt want her changing infront of me but that's because I do not feel comfortable changing in front of anyone or anyone changing in front of me regardless, im weird like that.



Please see my latest post re: bathroom!  LOL!


----------



## ByeKitty

prettyprincess said:


> A rare medical condition is the same as [del]a man who chooses to dress like[/del] a woman but produces sperm and has a pen*s?



FTFY. Both are rare medical concerns.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Whatever facial reconstruction surgery he got, they did a really good job. He still looks like him but also like a woman. I guess the woman version of Bruce. He has enough $ to do it right, I suppose.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Whatever facial reconstruction surgery he got, they did a really good job. He still looks like him but also like a woman. I guess the woman version of Bruce. He has enough $ to do it right, I suppose.



I agree.  There are so many comments made by transgender people stating they wish they had his money so they could look as good.


----------



## tennisplyr91

Coach Lover Too said:


> *I wish the transgender people on here *could separate themselves from Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and not take the comments that are directed *towards Bruce*, so personal.
> Their lives and the choices they have made have nothing to do with the way I feel about Bruce as a person, be it male or female.
> 
> I hope that makes sense.



I wish you would stop saying this.

You are assuming people here are trans, and are assuming that people who are supporters of Caitlyn are trans.

PS. There is no Bruce no more.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tennisplyr91 said:


> I wish you would stop saying this.
> 
> You are assuming people here are trans, and are assuming that people who are supporters of Caitlyn are trans.
> 
> PS. There is no Bruce no more.



I'll stop saying it when people stop saying there are transgender people here that frequent this thread. I've never assumed anything. It has been stated time and time again. Try and keep up before you call me out.
I'll also refer to Bruce/Caitlyn as I see fit.
Now if we're making wishes, I wish you'd get off my a**.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'll stop saying it when people stop saying there are transgender people here that frequent this thread. I've never assumed anything. It has been stated time and time again. Try and keep up before you call me out.
> *I'll also refer to Bruce/Caitlyn as I see fit.*
> Now if we're making wishes, I wish you'd get off my a**.


 
I can't...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DesigningStyle said:


> I agree.  There are so many comments made by transgender people stating they wish they had his money so they could look as good.



According to this story, right around $100,000.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/becoming-caitlyn-jenner-no-cheap-feat-100-000-174700825.html


----------



## tennisplyr91

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'll stop saying it when people stop saying there are transgender people here that frequent this thread. I've never assumed anything. It has been stated time and time again. Try and keep up before you call me out.
> I'll also refer to Bruce/Caitlyn as I see fit.
> Now if we're making wishes, I wish you'd get off my a**.



Do you know who specifically is trans? Do you who what these people are saying?

NO, you have no clue who they are or what they have to say, so.....

stop ASSuming. 

Wish I'd get off your ***? Woman, you post every 5 seconds in this thread with something negative to say, it's like you trained your entire life and prepared for this glorious day and now all your hard work is paying off. Never have I ever seen someone spew hate in a such a quick and vile manner.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> I can't...



Not surprised.


----------



## dangerouscurves

The problem with a lot of people is that they don't understand the issue and refuse to understand because it's against their religious belief. They think transgender people are against the nature and how god want them to be. For me if it makes them happy and if it actually makes them find peace, that's all that matters.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tennisplyr91 said:


> Do you know who specifically is trans? Do you who what these people are saying?
> 
> NO, you have no clue who they are or what they have to say, so.....
> 
> stop ASSuming.
> 
> Wish I'd get off your ***? *Woman, you post every 5 seconds in this thread* with something negative to say, it's like you trained your entire life and prepared for this glorious day and now all your hard work is paying off. Never have I ever seen someone spew hate in a such a quick and vile manner.



Just trying to Keep up with the Kardashians. Don't hate.


----------



## tennisplyr91

dangerouscurves said:


> The problem with a lot of people is that they don't understand the issue and refuse to understand because it's against their religious belief. They think transgender people are against the nature and how god want them to be. For me if it makes them happy and if it actually makes them find peace, that's all that matters.



I am catholic so I understand, but even then, why do you have to be mean, cruel, and evil, and instead of being tolerant like God taught us, you have to shame them, ridicule them and mock them incessantly?


----------



## bisousx

*10 Powerful Responses to Caitlyn Jenner's Debut From the Trans Community*

While many in the transgender community spoke about the opportunities Caitlyn has created for others and just gave all-out kudos, some pointed out that she has more resources and a stronger support network than many transgender men and women.

Here is the response from a small sampling of the transgender community, in their own words:

*Orange Is the New Black star Laverne Cox, via Tumblr:*

I am so moved by all the love and support Caitlyn is receiving. It feels like a new day, indeed, when a trans person can present her authentic self to the world for the first time and be celebrated for it so universally. Many have commented on how gorgeous Caitlyn looks in her photos, how she is slaying for the gods. I must echo these comments in the vernacular, Yasss Gawd! Werk Caitlyn! Get it!

...Most trans folks dont have the privileges Caitlyn and I now have. It is those trans folks we must continue to lift up, get them access to healthcare, jobs, housing, safe streets, safe schools, and homes for our young people. We must lift up the stories of those most at risk, statistically trans people of color who are poor and working class. I have hoped over the past few years that the incredible love I have received from the public can translate to the lives of all trans folks. Trans folks of all races, gender expressions, ability, sexual orientations, classes, immigration status, employment status, transition status, genital status etc. I hope, as I know Caitlyn does, that the love she is receiving can translate into changing hearts and minds about who all trans people are as well as shifting public policies to fully support the lives and well being of all of us. The struggle continues...

*Janet Mock, author, advocate, and host of SoPOPular! on MSNBC:*

Let's celebrate Caitlyn & use her moment to uplift trans folks facing insurmountable economic barriers for affirming healthcare.

*Nick Adams, GLAADs director of programs, transgender media:*

"For a transgender person to step into the world as his or her authentic self is a moment of tremendous freedom. The world can now see what Caitlyn Jenner has always known, that she isand always has beena woman.

And more: http://www.womenshealthmag.com/life/reactions-to-caitlyn-jenner


----------



## tennisplyr91

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just trying to Keep up with the Kardashians. *Don't hate*.



The irony....


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sassys said:


> Agree. Just reading these post really got under my skin. As a child with a black mother and white father, I am very sensitive to people treating others like they don't belong. I can't tolerate racism or bigotry and treating a person who is transgendered the way some are treating this issue is no different than racism IMO.




Yeah it's like talking with religiously fanatic people. [emoji6]


----------



## Sassys

dangerouscurves said:


> The problem with a lot of people is that they don't understand the issue and refuse to understand because it's against their religious belief. They think transgender people are against the nature and how god want them to be. For me if it makes them happy and if it actually makes them find peace, that's all that matters.


 
Agree!!



tennisplyr91 said:


> stop ASSuming.
> 
> Wish I'd get off your ***? Woman, you post every 5 seconds in this thread with something negative to say, it's like you trained your entire life and prepared for this glorious day and now all your hard work is paying off. Never have I ever seen someone spew hate in a such a quick and vile manner.


 
Thank you!


----------



## SpeedyJC

DesigningStyle said:


> Please see my latest post re: bathroom!  LOL!


 
Just saw that's great. It is a learning process. Its all about the willingness to be opened minded.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tennisplyr91 said:


> The irony....


Sorry I couldn't find the sarcasm font.


----------



## ByeKitty

bisousx said:


> Sorry, not really, I had this exact same thought as I was watching Selma last night. How wonderful it would be for some people (not just on this thread but by reading commentary in general) if they could go back to a time where they could openly be hateful and even act upon it. That way, when they run into situations where they can't form a logical train of thought, they wouldn't have to create false dilemmas (how can Bruce be a hero when there are real heroes out there; he must not be TG because he's profiting off interviews, etc.)



OK I originally did not really want to go here, but here goes: I see where Sassys was coming from by comparing transphobia to racism or other types of intolerance of minorities, like homophobia. For some posts that I've seen here, you would only have to replace 1 or 2 words and the posts would be blatantly homophobic. Would we then still be okay with them, for the sake of "free speech", and "right to opinion"? The transgender phenomenon is still new to most people and we have yet to form these types of "moral codes" that are associated with other types of xenophobia. Doesn't mean there is the limitless opportunity to throw around ignorant, hurtful comments about transgendered people.

And then, I guess in an attempt to disprove the fact that these comments stem from transphobia, there is the argument that Chaz Bono handled his transition so well. I'm sorry but that reminds me think of the way Paula Deen defended herself against accusations of racism, introducing us to that dear friend of hers - "BLACK as that board!"


----------



## Sassys

ByeKitty said:


> OK I originally did not really want to go here, but here goes: I see where Sassys was coming from by comparing transphobia to racism or other types of intolerance of minorities, like homophobia. For some posts that I've seen here, you would only have to replace 1 or 2 words and the posts would be blatantly homophobic. Would we then still be okay with them, for the sake of "free speech", and "right to opinion"? The transgender phenomenon is still new to most people and we have yet to form these types of "moral codes" that are associated with other types of xenophobia. Doesn't mean there is the limitless opportunity to throw around ignorant, hurtful comments about transgendered people.
> 
> And then, I guess in an attempt to disprove the fact that these comments stem from transphobia, there is the argument that Chaz Bono handled his transition so well. I'm sorry but that reminds me think of the way Paula Deen defended herself against accusations of racism, introducing us to that dear friend of hers - "BLACK as that board!"


 
Thank you ByeKitty!


----------



## tweegy

schadenfreude said:


> I think the circus is what she was trying to avoid with the Diane sawyer interview. And even VF.
> 
> But I think once you have a contract with E! And have a mortgage to pay the kardashian training kicks in cause it is veering towards that a bit. I hope it doesn't. It could impede what she initially did. She should stay away from anything E!
> 
> Like I said in a previous post, she is in a position to help others- hell even save lives. I just hope she uses it wisely and doesn't devalue it.


----------



## exotikittenx

ByeKitty said:


> OK I originally did not really want to go here, but here goes: I see where Sassys was coming from by comparing transphobia to racism or other types of intolerance of minorities, like homophobia. For some posts that I've seen here, you would only have to replace 1 or 2 words and the posts would be blatantly homophobic. Would we then still be okay with them, for the sake of "free speech", and "right to opinion"? The transgender phenomenon is still new to most people and we have yet to form these types of "moral codes" that are associated with other types of xenophobia. Doesn't mean there is the limitless opportunity to throw around ignorant, hurtful comments about transgendered people.
> 
> And then, I guess in an attempt to disprove the fact that these comments stem from transphobia, there is the argument that Chaz Bono handled his transition so well. I'm sorry but that reminds me think of the way Paula Deen defended herself against accusations of racism, introducing us to that dear friend of hers - "BLACK as that board!"



Yes, and thank you.  People are participating in subtle and sometimes overt transphobic or hate speech, and perhaps without even realizing it.  I am grateful for the posters who are taking time to educate and contribute to understanding.  This seems like a friendly forum overall, and just think once society has a better understanding here of how we've been treating this currently marginalized group... well, it is akin to people who were racist or against civil rights at any point in history, and one day we will reflect back and see how little we knew and what trans* people have been put through.  It is better to be made aware, even on a "gossip forum."  Ignorance and intolerance should not be perpetuated.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

The whole thing seems so orchestrated to me. I used to like Bruce because he was down to earth and different from the rest of the family, but now he's becoming one of them (Kardashian). Everything seems staged at this point and I have a hard time taking him/her seriously.
I can't help but think it's going to backfire. Sooner than later. 
Mark my politically incorrect words.


----------



## Sassys

prettyprincess said:


> They are equally ridiculous comparisons. Disagreeing on a gossip site likens me to a group of people that used to lynch and burn other people? :okay:


 
I never said YOU were a Nazi or a KKK. I said people here who are uneducated and making rude comments on transgendered are treating them the same way Nazi and KKK treated other humans.

What was done to the following human beings is the same thing that was done to Jews and Blacks.

Teena Brandon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena

Gwen Araujo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Gwen_Araujo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people


----------



## Lady Chinadoll

Does anyone know how her hair was done? Is that a wig? Hair extensions? It looks very natural.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> The whole thing seems so orchestrated to me. I used to like Bruce because he was down to earth and different from the rest of the family, but now he's becoming one of them (Kardashian). Everything seems staged at this point and I have a hard time taking him/her seriously.
> I can't help but think it's going to backfire. Sooner than later.
> Mark my politically incorrect words.



It's not about being politically incorrect, it's about the dangers of justifying any type of xenophobia. Everything you've said about Bruce simply orchestrating this for $$$ or attention is only based on your own assumptions, and stem from a lack of willingness to understand that Bruce might just have struggled with these issues for all of his life, just like Chaz Bono (a.k.a. the shining example of how to transition) has.

You sound like a broken record, by the way. I feel like I've seen this post numerous times before.


----------



## tennisplyr91

Lady Chinadoll said:


> Does anyone know how her hair was done? Is that a wig? Hair extensions? It looks very natural.



Well, if you have seen her recent interviews etc, you can see she grew her hair quite  a lot!

I am not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was all hers!


----------



## tweegy

Sassys said:


> I never said YOU were a Nazi or a KKK. I said people here who are uneducated and making rude comments on transgendered are treating them the same way Nazi and KKK treated other humans.
> 
> What was done to the following human beings is the same thing that was done to Jews and Blacks.
> 
> Teena Brandon
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena
> 
> Gwen Araujo
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Gwen_Araujo
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people




Umm... Just my opinion lol - don't shoot me-...But that's a rather extreme comparison to make [emoji53] no?


----------



## tennisplyr91

ByeKitty said:


> It's not about being politically incorrect, it's about the dangers of justifying any type of xenophobia. Everything you've said about Bruce simply orchestrating this for $$$ or attention is only based on your own assumptions, and stem from a lack of willingness to understand that Bruce might just have struggled with these issues for all of his life, just like Chaz Bono (a.k.a. the shining example of how to transition) has.
> 
> *You sound like a broken record, by the way. I feel like I've seen this post numerous times before.*



this. it seems like op is sitting at home reloading this page over and over, repeating to her self the same tire-*** commentary.


----------



## labelwhore04

I can't deal with some of the comments in this thread. It proves that ignorance and intolerance is alive and well in 2015. SMH


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> It's not about being politically incorrect, it's about the dangers of justifying any type of xenophobia. Everything you've said about Bruce simply orchestrating this for $$$ or attention is only based on your own assumptions, and stem from a lack of willingness to understand that Bruce might just have struggled with these issues for all of his life, just like Chaz Bono (a.k.a. the shining example of how to transition) has.
> 
> *You sound like a broken record, by the way. I feel like I've seen this post numerous times before.*



That's exactly how I feel when I see my newsfeed with Jenner and Kardashashain overload. Maybe if they didn't feel the need to stay relevant in the public eye, then I wouldn't feel the need to call them out on it.
I guarantee if I was leading Bruce/Caitlyn's fan club you wouldn't have a problem with my posts.


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> Umm... Just my opinion lol - don't shoot me-...But that's a rather extreme comparison to make [emoji53] no?



Yes, very extreme, but mostly because we know the horrific consequences. But back then, it was okay to say: these Jews/blacks/[insert scapegoat here] are not to be trusted, we must get rid of them. 

Mind you, we still have populist politicians these days spewing such hatred (often towards Muslims) but there is thankfully a type of distrust connected to such figures, and it stems from the lessons we have learned in the past.


----------



## labelwhore04

DesigningStyle said:


> If I am pulling my pants down in a public restroom stall with the sign on the door stating WOMEN I am sorry, but I do not want a p***s on the other side of the stall.  I just don't.  And, if I am in my gym's locker room changing, I do not want the person next to me having male parts.  I really don't think that is odd.



What about intersex people? And who cares what genitals someone has. How does that affect your bathroom visit? Really sick of this assumption that if you have a penis you're automatically treated like a potential rapist/pervert. I don't think the world is gonna come crashing down if a trans person uses a specific bathroom.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's exactly how I feel when I see my newsfeed with Jenner and Kardashashain overload. Maybe if they didn't feel the need to stay relevant in the public eye, then I wouldn't feel the need to call them out on it.
> I guarantee if I was leading Bruce/Caitlyn's fan club you wouldn't have a problem with my posts.


 
Being a fan of Caitlyn has nothing to do with it. It's about being a fan of respect to other human beings and understanding their differences. You don't seem to get that.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's exactly how I feel when I see my newsfeed with Jenner and Kardashashain overload. Maybe if they didn't feel the need to stay relevant in the public eye, then I wouldn't feel the need to call them out on it.
> *I guarantee if I was leading Bruce/Caitlyn's fan club you wouldn't have a problem with my posts.*



Ugh that is so unnecessary, I am by no means a Bruce/Caitlyn fan, this is not even about her to me. It's about the nature of your comments.


----------



## DesigningStyle

tennisplyr91 said:


> Well, if you have seen her recent interviews etc, you can see she grew her hair quite  a lot!
> 
> I am not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was all hers!



From VF:


As for her hair, there was the hair-guru giant Oribe, who spoke to Caitlyn prior to the shoot to prep, and they discussed achieving natural-looking, glamorous hair, but not overdone. We looked to Cindy Crawfords hair for inspiration, which is always glamorous but natural-looking," Oribe explained. I wanted to create a glamorous look that I normally do for any woman, and sexuality was very important in this context. Bruce was one of the sexiest men alive, and I thought it was equally as important for Caitlyn to be a sexy woman, he added. And to create such luxurious-looking hair, he looked to one of his Oribe brand go-to-productsDry Texturizing Sprayto create volume, and Signature Royal Blowout Heat Styling Spray to add shine and softness. Then he left her with a care package for maintaining her hair and extensions: Oribe Masque and Shampoo and Conditioner for Beautiful Color.


----------



## Sassys

labelwhore04 said:


> What about intersex people? And who cares what genitals someone has. How does that affect your bathroom visit? Really sick of this assumption that if you have a penis you're automatically treated like a potential rapist/pervert. I don't think the world is gonna come crashing down if a trans person uses a specific bathroom.


 
 You are behind closed doors, you have no idea what is going on in the stall next to you and who cares. The person with a penis next to you is doing their business in the bathroom and not focused on the person next to them who also should be doing their business. If I have to pee, I could care less who is in the bathroom with me, especially if they are not doing anything wrong.


----------



## DesigningStyle

labelwhore04 said:


> What about intersex people? And who cares what genitals someone has. How does that affect your bathroom visit? Really sick of this assumption that if you have a penis you're automatically treated like a potential rapist/pervert. I don't think the world is gonna come crashing down if a trans person uses a specific bathroom.



See my most recent post http://forum.purseblog.com/showpost.php?p=28655945&postcount=1164


----------



## littlerock

DesigningStyle said:


> See my most recent post http://forum.purseblog.com/showpost.php?p=28655945&postcount=1164


----------



## exotikittenx

Sassys said:


> I never said YOU were a Nazi or a KKK. I said people here who are uneducated and making rude comments on transgendered are treating them the same way Nazi and KKK treated other humans.
> 
> What was done to the following human beings is the same thing that was done to Jews and Blacks.
> 
> Teena Brandon
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena
> 
> Gwen Araujo
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Gwen_Araujo
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people




This is heartbreaking.  I had no idea there were so many people, this year alone.  

  My wife is androgynous.  She deals with people's stares and comments on a daily basis with how she dresses (in men's clothes), and with what restroom she uses.  It is enough stress and pressure for me, being gay, but I can pass for straight.  Most wouldn't look at me and think that I am not a heterosexual.  Being targeted for how you look externally, how you dress, what your body looks like... it is an immense struggle, and sometimes too much for any human being to go through.  

I can see how Bruce was unable to be more present with his family.  I am not excusing it, but I can understand it, given the statistics.


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> Yes, very extreme, but mostly because we know the horrific consequences. But back then, it was okay to say: these Jews/blacks/[insert scapegoat here] are not to be trusted, we must get rid of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Mind you, we still have populist politicians these days spewing such hatred (often towards Muslims) but there is thankfully a type of distrust connected to such figures, and it stems from the lessons we have learned in the past.




But - if I'm being impartial here - not saying some posters are posting with hateful intentions- and im not taking ANY sides here. Buuuut- one cannot really deduce for certain  true context and tone from posts. A person could be posting with one intent or tone intended and it rubs someone wrong. It's happened to a lot of folks myself included. You know what I mean

I've skimmed the past few pages and honestly all I've seen are different views folks are expressing with regards to Caitlyn. Nothing really stood out to me as transphobic - if I'm wrong sorry..

I hope MY posts haven't offended anyone cause that's not my intent. It's a open dialogue for folks to discuss the current topic... Caitlyn happens to be a current topic. I get tht this can have a serious subject attached to it. But It should be open to dialogue from all avenues. Whether deemed positive or not. That's how you learn another view and carry forward the topic-no? But to see it veer to such a offcourse turn ...[emoji53] rilly? 

*heads towards box*
[emoji403]......[emoji124]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> Being a fan of Caitlyn has nothing to do with it. It's about being a fan of respect to other human beings and understanding their differences. You don't seem to get that.



You mean like referring to someone as *Homo Thug.* *Your* words.
Respectful much? I didn't think so.


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> But - if I'm being impartial here - not saying some posters are posting with hateful intentions- and im not taking ANY sides here. Buuuut- one cannot really deduce for certain  true context and tone from posts. A person could be posting with one intent or tone intended and it rubs someone wrong. It's happened to a lot of folks myself included. You know what I mean
> 
> I've skimmed the past few pages and honestly all I've seen are different views folks are expressing with regards to Caitlyn. Nothing really stood out to me as transphobic - if I'm wrong sorry..
> 
> I hope MY posts haven't offended anyone cause that's not my intent. It's a open dialogue for folks to discuss the current topic... Caitlyn happens to be a current topic. I get tht this can have a serious subject attached to it. But It should be open to dialogue from all avenues. Whether deemed positive or not. That's how you learn another view and carry forward the topic-no? But to see it veer to such a offcourse turn ...[emoji53] rilly?
> 
> *heads towards box*
> [emoji403]......[emoji124]


You make good points, it's always hard to draw a line, because that line is different for everyone. I get that racism and homophobia isn't always intentional, but that doesn't make it any less dangerous. I'm going to give another example: one of my best friends is gay, and when we were in high school I supported him through his coming out - a very difficult thing for him. Then afterwards, my father accused me of "making him gay", as in: he thought I had talked him into it. My father is generally progressive and not homophobic at all in the core, but I did find that accusation hurtful and ignorant.


----------



## guccimamma

caitlin overload, too much too soon for me. 

bruce, goodbye old sport.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> You mean like referring to someone as *Homo Thug.* *Your* words.
> Respectful much? I didn't think so.


 
That is what THEY call themselves. I know plenty of "Homo Thugs" and that is THEIR term, not mine.

WTF, are you talking about? Nice try though.

Again, educate yourself and use Google.


homo thug 
A black or Latino homosexual who dresses hip hop and does not act "gay."   

Sometimes a homo thug has relationships with women, and keeps his gay sex on the DL. 
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homo+thug


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> You make good points, it's always hard to draw a line, because that line is different for everyone. I get that racism and homophobia isn't always intentional, but that doesn't make it any less dangerous. I'm going to give another example: one of my best friends is gay, and when we were in high school I supported him through his coming out - a very difficult thing for him. Then afterwards, my father accused me of "making him gay", as in: he thought I had talked him into it. My father is generally progressive and not homophobic at all in the core, but I did find that accusation hurtful and ignorant.




Some folks just honestly dont know and don't know better. For some it's a hard mindset to shake. Cause it's not a simple issue.

There are some folks (not here) that just cannot compute gay and trans people. I've seen it several times. 

I have encountered both and I see them all as people. I've seen the pain they've endured from unacceptance. Even from family. It is hard. But I've seen And I'm sure many folks in here have encounters and experiences. So that's why I hope miss Caitlyn uses this platform very wisely.


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> some folks just honestly dont know and don't know better. For some it's a hard mindset to shake. Cause it's not a simple issue.
> 
> There are some folks (not here) that just cannot compute gay and trans people. I've seen it several times.
> 
> I have encountered both and i see them all as people. I've seen the pain they've endured from unacceptance. Even from family. It is hard. But i've seen and i'm sure many folks in here have encounters and experiences. So that's why i hope miss caitlyn uses this platform very wisely.



ita!


----------



## ForeverYoung87

ByeKitty said:


> Ugh that is so unnecessary, I am by no means a Bruce/Caitlyn fan, this is not even about her to me. It's about the nature of your comments.



Pretty much sums up allllllll the comments from that Coach account....unnecessary.


----------



## SpeedyJC

tweegy said:


> But - if I'm being impartial here - not saying some posters are posting with hateful intentions- and im not taking ANY sides here. Buuuut- one cannot really deduce for certain  true context and tone from posts. A person could be posting with one intent or tone intended and it rubs someone wrong. It's happened to a lot of folks myself included. You know what I mean
> 
> I've skimmed the past few pages and honestly all I've seen are different views folks are expressing with regards to Caitlyn. Nothing really stood out to me as transphobic - if I'm wrong sorry..
> 
> I hope MY posts haven't offended anyone cause that's not my intent. It's a open dialogue for folks to discuss the current topic... Caitlyn happens to be a current topic. I get tht this can have a serious subject attached to it. But It should be open to dialogue from all avenues. Whether deemed positive or not. That's how you learn another view and carry forward the topic-no? But to see it veer to such a offcourse turn ...[emoji53] rilly?
> 
> *heads towards box*
> [emoji403]......[emoji124]


 
Great post.

I do not understand how its ok to say that posters on here who arnt showing understanding or are making rude comments or whatever they are doing are treating transgendered people the same way the KKK or Nazi's treated other humans. First off I haven't really seen any comments here so extreme or hate filled to even warrant bringing up the klan or Nazi's for comparison purposes. Second if one really feels the need to reference historical injustice why not use the Jim Crow Laws? ( I don't see any posts that would even warrant that to be honest however I don't know if I have read all the posts)I would think someone not wanting to share the bathroom or not agreeing with transgender rights would be more in line with a supporter of the JC laws than in line with a Nazi who tortured and murdered  woman, men and children or a KKK member who burned someones home down and lynched them. Sometimes when one makes a comparison so extreme it doesn't help the cause it hurts it.

 That's just my opinion anyways, should I duck for cover now?


----------



## labelwhore04

tweegy said:


> Some folks just honestly dont know and don't know better. For some it's a hard mindset to shake. Cause it's not a simple issue.
> 
> There are some folks (not here) that just cannot compute gay and trans people. I've seen it several times.
> 
> I have encountered both and I see them all as people. I've seen the pain they've endured from unacceptance. Even from family. It is hard. But I've seen And I'm sure many folks in here have encounters and experiences. So that's why I hope miss Caitlyn uses this platform very wisely.



I get that that many people don't understand and are having a hard time with it. I don't understand a lot of it myself. Some people have genuine questions too and that's great. My problem is with people who aren't even willing to learn or try to accept any of it. Some people are just so nasty and hurtful with their comments. All that anyone asks is to have some sensitivity/empathy. You don't have to understand it or even support it but just having some tact would go a long way.


----------



## Jikena

foreveryoung87 said:


> pretty much sums up allllllll the comments from that coach account....unnecessary.



+1


----------



## CobaltBlu

So. Attacks on other posters are not OK. 

I want to thank and acknowledge all of you who are trying to shine a light on this incredibly complex topic. Please let's all try to continue with grace and tolerance.


----------



## krissa

I hope at least some of the proceeds for all the $&& that Caitliyn is earning will go to a trans org bc he has enough privilege to not have to deal with most of the disadvantages trans people face (threats of violence, employment, etc). Bruce enjoyed decades of male and celebrity privilege and it must be nice to turn the book on that page and get a fresh start and be idolized. Only time will tell if she is any less self absorbed than Bruce now that she can express herself as she wants. 

*disclaimer* my opinion. Randomly writing on iphone without desire to spell check. Not intend to offend or set off a debate. Just my 2cs.


----------



## SpeedyJC

labelwhore04 said:


> What about intersex people? And who cares what genitals someone has. How does that affect your bathroom visit? Really sick of this assumption that if you have a penis you're automatically treated like a potential rapist/pervert. I don't think the world is gonna come crashing down if a trans person uses a specific bathroom.


 
Oh I know if someone with a penis wanted to sexually assault a woman in the bathroom they would just hide in a stall or follow her in there and do it, they wouldn't have to dress up like a woman and pretend to be transgendered which is the argument I have seen. When I read comments like that on articles about how allowing a transgendered person to use the restroom could end up in rape I just cant take it. 

 I have spent too much time on this thread today lol. I have the day off but maybe its time to get my butt up and go for a walk or something.




CobaltBlu said:


> So. Attacks on other posters are not OK.
> 
> I want to thank and acknowledge all of you who are trying to shine a light on this incredibly complex topic. Please let's all try to continue with grace and tolerance.


 

That bee in your avi made me smile how cute.


----------



## sdkitty

I think Caitlyn is bringing attention to the transgender issue that's mostly positive.  Let's not kid ourselves -  even with all the positive attention from celebs, media, etc., there are going to be plenty of people who aren't understanding or tolerant of her.
I think it's great if she is helping young transgender people by gaining acceptance.  I understand they have a high suicide rate so if this helps, bravo to Caitlyn.
I also think that probably most transgender people would have a hard time coming up with the money to do all these procedures that she's had done (never mind the beautiful clothes, makeup, etc for the VF cover.}
I wish her luck and hope she will distance herself from the Kardashian publicity engine.


----------



## bag-mania

Not all celebrities are responding positively. Just saw this on a gossip site.



> *Snoop Dogg: Bruce Jenner Is A Science Project, Not Real News*
> 
> Snoop Dogg calls Bruce Jenner a science project in a new Instagram post, in which he complains that Jenners transition to Caitlyn Jenner is not real news. Check out the photos below.
> 
> Early Wednesday, Snoop posted a photo of fellow musician Akron. On the picture, the text read, Shout out to Akon! He is about to supply 600 million Africans with solar power. Im really upset that this isnt major news but that science project Bruce Jenner is #Society. In the Instagram caption, Snoop wrote, News flash. @akon tune in to ggn for some real news.
> 
> GGN is Snoops own news network, which features web shows and podcasts. Akon, who has not commented on his pals post, has been working on a Lighting Africa initiative, which seeks to provide a concrete response at grass roots level to Africas energy crisis and lay the foundations for future development. Akon launched the project more than a year ago.
> 
> Many of Snoops followers called him out for the post, arguing that it shouldnt be an either or situation. One angry commenter wrote on Snoops post, What is wrong with you? You can make it news, you have that power, the only news you just made is how incredibly intolerable and insensitive you are #smh. Another said, There are always going to be more important issues, but why do you have to downplay how much Caitlyn Jenner is helping the trans* community and society? Both are important to societies in different ways.
> 
> Others, however, agreed with Snoop to extent, such as the follower who posted, Shes not a science project, thats hella rude. But I do agree that its ridiculous this isnt making major headlines etc. Someone else simply wrote, Fantastic!!
> 
> Snoops post, which some are taking as transphobic, comes two days after Timbaland made waves for insisting that Jenner should still be called Bruce because thats the name her mother gave her. Snoop similarly refers to Bruce Jenner and not Caitlyn in his own message. See below, and tell us what you think.
> http://www.gossipcop.com/snoop-dogg-bruce-jenner-science-project-real-news-instagram-caitlyn-photos/


----------



## RueMonge

I appreciate the education I'm getting in this thread...don't have to agree with everyone to learn something.

I do agree with most that Bruce was a horrible parent. So far I don't see that Caitlyn is any better. Time will tell. 

The Jenner fame provides a great platform for what so many are facing in secret, which is wonderful. 

I have concerns that most people won't have the kind of money and connections for the plastic surgery and national unveiling with the best photographer, make up, wardrobe, etc which seems to set the bar a little too high.  And I have concerns that a post transition woman has to be such a stereotypical sexualized female (Jon Stewart nailed it).

As much as I side eye Bruce's previous behavior, it is so delightful that in all the scripted, manufactured krap on the K show, he had the real story all the time, but couldn't tell it. 

Thank you all for this discussion and I hope it doesn't get shut down.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Lady Chinadoll said:


> Does anyone know how her hair was done? Is that a wig? Hair extensions? It looks very natural.




It could be hair transplant. One famous soccer coach in Germany used to be balding then he got a hair transplant and now he has abundant of hair!


----------



## RueMonge

sdkitty said:


> I think Caitlyn is bringing attention to the transgender issue that's mostly positive.  Let's not kid ourselves -  even with all the positive attention from celebs, media, etc., there are going to be plenty of people who aren't understanding or tolerant of her.
> I think it's great if she is helping young transgender people by gaining acceptance.  I understand they have a high suicide rate so if this helps, bravo to Caitlyn.
> I also think that probably most transgender people would have a hard time coming up with the money to do all these procedures that she's had done (never mind the beautiful clothes, makeup, etc for the VF cover.}
> I wish her luck and hope she will distance herself from the Kardashian publicity engine.



With you there.


----------



## dangerouscurves

bag-mania said:


> Not all celebrities are responding positively. Just saw this on a gossip site.




Timbaland is a jacka$$!!!!


----------



## Stansy

This whole Nazi/KKK discussion and comparison in this thread makes me sick! My grandparents on the fraternal side were hardcore nazis while my grandma on the maternal side was a refugee and widow to a resistance fighter with two baby girls.
People, please, peace!
Let us be grateful that we live today and that gay, lesbian and transgender people can come out and don't need to fear for their life!
I didn't like Bruce Jenner and don't like Caitlyn Jenner, but the tone in this thread is just too much.
*exits thread*


----------



## DesigningStyle

dangerouscurves said:


> It could be hair transplant. One famous soccer coach in Germany used to be balding then he got a hair transplant and now he has abundant of hair!



She does have extensions.  http://forum.purseblog.com/showpost.php?p=28656376&postcount=1204


----------



## mcb100

Stansy said:


> This whole Nazi/KKK discussion and comparison in this thread makes me sick! My grandparents on the fraternal side were hardcore nazis while my grandma on the maternal side was a refugee and widow to a resistance fighter with two baby girls.
> People, please, peace!
> Let us be grateful that we live today and that gay, lesbian and transgender people can come out and don't need to fear for their life!
> I didn't like Bruce Jenner and don't like Caitlyn Jenner, but the tone in this thread is just too much.
> *exits thread*




Very good post!


----------



## BagOuttaHell

This cover and the interview were tasteful.

TV Show on E! produced by the usual suspects screams famewhoring to me.

Wish her the best. The pressure is on.


----------



## prettyprincess

Sassys said:


> I never said YOU were a Nazi or a KKK. I said people here who are uneducated and making rude comments on transgendered are treating them the same way Nazi and KKK treated other humans.
> 
> What was done to the following human beings is the same thing that was done to Jews and Blacks.
> 
> I'm sorry, but No. Its absolutely, without question, NOT the same thing. Prisoners in Nazi concentration camps were burned in ovens. Entire families were slaughtered. Blacks were lynched by members of the KKK. Comparing what the Nazis/KKK did to comments on a gossip site is not the appropriate comparison and it diminishes the pain that those people endured.


----------



## bisousx

Stansy said:


> Let us be grateful that we live today and that gay, lesbian and transgender people can come out and don't need to fear for their life!
> *



Transgender people *are* fearing for their lives and are being murdered.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Yikes.  Revoke Bruce's medal?  Change.org petition now with almost 2000 signatures:

Dear International Olympic Committee,

It has recently come to light that gold medalist Bruce Jenner is in fact transgender, and therefore, identifies as a woman. We congratulate Ms. Jenner on these new developments and wish her the best. However, this creates somewhat of a problem as Ms. Jenner (as talented as she is) claims that she has always believed herself to be truly female, and therefore, was in violation of committee rules regarding women competing in men's sports and vice versa. Therefore, it is with a heavy heart that we must ask whether or not it is proper that Ms. Jenner should retain her olympic records in light of this, as we must now either claim that Bruce Jenner and Caitlyn Jenner are two entirely different people (which we know is not true), or that Bruce Jenner was, in fact, a woman participating in a men's event. It is only fair to all involved that women receive their credit as champions of the Decathalon and that the men racing Ms. Jenner are not expected to compete with a superior, streamlined being such as herself.

We urge Ms. Jenner to support the transgender community by giving up the medals earned by competing against the wrong gender.

Thank you, and congratulations to Ms. Jenner for her courage!

#givebackthegold


----------



## littlerock

^ That sounds like something from The Onion


----------



## bag-mania

^Definitely!


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Oh please. 

I hope she tells change.org to kiss my grits.


----------



## gracekelly

DesigningStyle said:


> Yikes.  Revoke Bruce's medal?  Change.org petition now with almost 2000 signatures:
> 
> Dear International Olympic Committee,
> 
> It has recently come to light that gold medalist Bruce Jenner is in fact transgender, and therefore, identifies as a woman. We congratulate Ms. Jenner on these new developments and wish her the best. However, this creates somewhat of a problem as Ms. Jenner (as talented as she is) claims that she has always believed herself to be truly female, and therefore, was in violation of committee rules regarding women competing in men's sports and vice versa. Therefore, it is with a heavy heart that we must ask whether or not it is proper that Ms. Jenner should retain her olympic records in light of this, as we must now either claim that Bruce Jenner and Caitlyn Jenner are two entirely different people (which we know is not true), or that Bruce Jenner was, in fact, a woman participating in a men's event. It is only fair to all involved that women receive their credit as champions of the Decathalon and that the men racing Ms. Jenner are not expected to compete with a superior, streamlined being such as herself.
> 
> We urge Ms. Jenner to support the transgender community by giving up the medals earned by competing against the wrong gender.
> 
> Thank you, and congratulations to Ms. Jenner for her courage!
> 
> #givebackthegold



I trust this is a joke.

Does anyone recall a Russian female Olympic athlete that had to undergo genetic testing for this very reason?  She was found to have a rare condition, but was banned from further competition.  It is actually a very serious subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sports


----------



## bag-mania

It has to be a joke. There is no such thing as a women's decathlon anyway.  (And the "petition" didn't even spell decathlon correctly.)


----------



## Jayne1

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Whatever facial reconstruction surgery he got, they did a really good job. He still looks like him but also like a woman. I guess the woman version of Bruce. He has enough $ to do it right, I suppose.



I don't know how many rhinoplasties she's had, but this new nose turns up a little.  That's new!

She's contouring like mad, not sure how that will look in daylight, in person&#8230; quite over the top, I would think..., but on my computer screen, it makes her look quite nice.


----------



## Jayne1

DesigningStyle said:


> She does have extensions.  http://forum.purseblog.com/showpost.php?p=28656376&postcount=1204


She's got a lot of something. Don't think it's just extensions. Her hair was quite thin on top.


----------



## Lounorada

Stansy said:


> This whole Nazi/KKK discussion and comparison in this thread makes me sick! My grandparents on the fraternal side were hardcore nazis while my grandma on the maternal side was a refugee and widow to a resistance fighter with two baby girls.
> People, please, peace!
> Let us be grateful that we live today and that gay, lesbian and transgender people can come out and don't need to fear for their life!
> *I didn't like Bruce Jenner and don't like Caitlyn Jenner, but the tone in this thread is just too much.*
> *exits thread*


 

+1

This thread is a mess and a disgrace. SMH.
I've read many posts with opinions I disagree with, but I just read, roll my eyes and keep scrolling.


----------



## DesigningStyle

littlerock said:


> ^ That sounds like something from The Onion



Does The Onion start petitions on change.org?


----------



## DesigningStyle

Jayne1 said:


> She's got a lot of something. Don't think it's just extensions. Her hair was quite thin on top.



She also had her forehead lowered as part of the feminine facial work.  I am guessing that could have helped the hairline?


----------



## DesigningStyle

Jayne1 said:


> I don't know how many rhinoplasties she's had, but this new nose turns up a little.  That's new!
> 
> She's contouring like mad, not sure how that will look in daylight, in person quite over the top, I would think..., but on my computer screen, it makes her look quite nice.



From VF, Makeup artist Mark Carrasquillo said he did not do any contouring at all.

I didnt want her to look like a man in a dress. I wanted her to look like a beautiful 65-year-old woman," said Carrasquilloand that is exactly what he achieved.

To begin, he cleansed her face with Bioderma Sensibio H2O, which is great for sensitive skin. Then the SK-II Facial Treatment Mask was applied, followed by Clarins Lotus Face Treatment Oil, which was massaged into her skin. He then prepped her lips with the Lip Balm by La Mer.

As for the makeup, he wanted to give her a soft look and wanted to keep the skin semi-matte without too much shine. And since she has great features, *he did not do any contouring and left the shadows alone*. He used Tom Ford Traceless Foundation S.P.F. 15, and then Eve Pearl Salmon Concealer for additional coverage under the eyes, around the nose, and in any trouble spots. The eyebrows were lightly filled in with Estée Lauder Stay-in-Place Brow Lift Duo in Soft Brown. He curled her lashes and used Velour mink lashes, but topped only with a few individual ones, as they both wanted beautiful but very real-looking lashes. Then they were coated with Estée Lauder More than Mascara in Rich Black, concentrating on the root of the lash, less toward the tips, and he applied one coat of mascara to the bottom lashes. Then, to emphasize the eyes a bit further, he used_Tom Ford Eye Defining Pen in Black along her top eyelid following her lash line. Wanting to keep her eyes clean and sophisticated, he opted for very little eye shadow, and instead used the Sculpting Powder by Kevyn Aucoin in Medium, and softly blended in her crease and along her lower lashes. This was followed by a soft, peachy blusher on her cheeks, by Serge Lutens in Shade No. 2, which is one of Carrasquillos go-to favorites.

On the lips, he used Serge Lutens Lip Pencil to shape and define her lips, as no lipstick was used (only a bit of the pencil mixed with a lip balm).

He set her makeup with the light Serge Lutens Finishing Powder, as he wanted a natural-matte finish. And later, he played a bit more on her eyes. He even went for a bright red lip for one of the images, which was Jungle Red by Nars.


----------



## littlerock

DesigningStyle said:


> Does The Onion start petitions on change.org?



Not that I am aware of, but that petition is clearly a joke. It's satire.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> She's got a lot of something. Don't think it's just extensions. Her hair was quite thin on top.




Yep. I remember this picture and I'm sure he's got a hair transplant. Extension can only do so much (Ahem, Kim).


----------



## bag-mania

DesigningStyle said:


> Does The Onion start petitions on change.org?



No, but anyone can start a petition about anything on change.org. There are lots of ridiculous petitions there at any given time.


----------



## mcb100

I sure hope that do not take the medals away. That would be ridiculous, in my opinion. Male or woman, it doesn't matter to me whichever it was at the time, those medals were earned.


----------



## labelwhore04

mcb100 said:


> I sure hope that do not take the medals away. That would be ridiculous, in my opinion. Male or woman, it doesn't matter to me whichever it was at the time, those medals were earned.



Don't worry they won't. They wouldn't have any grounds to do that. He competed in the male olympics while he was still presenting as a man.


----------



## Sassys

Kim will kill herself :lolots::lolots:

*Move over Kendall! Caitlyn Jenner reportedly set to star in a  campaign for MAC Cosmetics - just days after making first public appearance as a  woman *


*Caitlyn, 65, would follow a long  list of A-list campaign stars including Lady Gaga, Rihanna, and Christina  Aguilera *
*Move over Kendall! Caitlyn Jenner  reportedly set to star in a campaign for MAC Cosmetics - just days after making  first public appearance as a woman *
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ng-public-appearance-woman.html#ixzz3c2HR3mkG


----------



## FreeSpirit71

@ Sassys...oh my.... the K's will be envious.

I think MAC Cosmetics are actually a perfect fit. Viva Glam would be the way to do it I imagine.


----------



## pukasonqo

prettyprincess said:


> Sassys said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is treating people like second class citizen any different from a Nazi or the KKK?
> 
> 
> 
> Educate yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe its you that should educate yourself on what Nazis did. When you do, you'll understand how preposterous is to compare comments written on a GOSSIP forum to killing millions upon millions of people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the nazis sent homosexuals to concentration camps, "euthanised" the elderly, mentally ill and children with mental or physical defects
> they treated jews, gypsies, homosexuals  and communists as not citizens at all with few rights that were dissappearing fast
> the comparison is valid, the nazis treated minorities as there lifes were worthless, discriminated against them
> there are paralels, we could say that there is still a deep misunderstanding of the LGBT community and that hate crimes (brandon tena as an example) still happen
> there are countries in africa were being gay can mean a death sentence, maybe not a state applied one, but still a death sentence
> i worked with a photographer in my country taking pics of street workers, we picked up a couple of young trans prostitutes; they were saving for reassignment surgery and the stories they told us were awful: chased by police, bashed and robbed by customers and no recourse
Click to expand...


----------



## B. Jara

Jayne1 said:


> I think it's great we all have a difference of opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish we wouldn't shame others for theirs.




This.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

True @pukasonqo...  Russia is another example where LGBT people are still very much at risk.


----------



## Sassys

FreeSpirit71 said:


> @ Sassys...oh my.... the K's will be envious.
> 
> I think MAC Cosmetics are actually a perfect fit. Viva Glam would be the way to do it I imagine.


 
Yeah, Rupal worked for them once.


----------



## pukasonqo

Stansy said:


> This whole Nazi/KKK discussion and comparison in this thread makes me sick! My grandparents on the fraternal side were hardcore nazis while my grandma on the maternal side was a refugee and widow to a resistance fighter with two baby girls.
> 
> People, please, peace!
> 
> Let us be grateful that we live today and that gay, lesbian and transgender people can come out and don't need to fear for their life!
> 
> I didn't like Bruce Jenner and don't like Caitlyn Jenner, but the tone in this thread is just too much.
> 
> *exits thread*




yup, at the same time i can see why the comparisons
i have known people who survived the camps, on my partner's side his grandmother escaped latvia, pregnant and with a toddler
but it has ti be said, many LGBT still fear for their lives; we are lucky in first world countries but, could you imagine coming out in saudi arabia? but  hate crimes like the murder of brandon tena and others still happen 
we proudly take pics of gorgeous TG dance queens from the samba schools in brasil while they can turn up bashed and murdered the next day with no outcry from authorities
as human beings we have not changed, fundamentalist religions demand the punishment of those who do not conform to their norm, there are still neonazis marching in berlin, sometimes i fear that we have learnt nothing at all and that we humans have very short memories
back to caitlyn


----------



## Jayne1

DesigningStyle said:


> From VF, Makeup artist Mark Carrasquillo said he did not do any contouring at all.
> 
> &#8220;I didn&#8217;t want her to look like a man in a dress. I wanted her to look like a beautiful 65-year-old woman," said Carrasquillo&#8212;and that is exactly what he achieved.


I was responding to something someone said about how she looked and I was using the youtube video Sassys posted a few pages back.  This is Caitlyn left to her own makeup application, which looks good on my computer, but may look very contoured in sunlight, in real life.


----------



## Sassys

The Jenner formerly known as Bruce  now Caitlyn  has taken a page from her daughters and bought her own Southern California pad.

 The former Olympian  and former spouse to Kardashian matriarch Kris  dropped more than $3.5 million on an 11-acre spread in Malibu with 360-degree views of the ocean, mountains and canyons, as first reported by Variety.

 The 4-bedroom, 4-bath home sounds plenty cozy, with radiant-heated floors, and fireplaces inside and out. Theres a covered patio, swimming pool and spa, and a downstairs area that could be used as a gym, office or guest quarters.

 Jenners teenage daughters, Kendall and Kylie, have reportedly spent millions in recent months on their own homes in the Los Angeles area.


----------



## Msbuffy100

I saw the pics and they actually look better than I imagined.  Caitlyn is better looking than Bruce was.


----------



## labelwhore04

Thats a gorgeous house


----------



## FreeSpirit71

labelwhore04 said:


> Thats a gorgeous house



It really is. Those views make it even better.


----------



## Echoes

BagOuttaHell said:


> kiss my grits.



I despise the entire Krackpot Klan with a mortal passion, but I stopped in for a quickee to see what the tPFers were saying and I run into Flo.


----------



## Echoes

Other than that, can anybody say 'PhotoShop'?


----------



## Eva1991

Sassys said:


> The Jenner formerly known as Bruce  now Caitlyn  has taken a page from her daughters and bought her own Southern California pad.
> 
> The former Olympian  and former spouse to Kardashian matriarch Kris  dropped more than $3.5 million on an 11-acre spread in Malibu with 360-degree views of the ocean, mountains and canyons, as first reported by Variety.
> 
> The 4-bedroom, 4-bath home sounds plenty cozy, with radiant-heated floors, and fireplaces inside and out. Theres a covered patio, swimming pool and spa, and a downstairs area that could be used as a gym, office or guest quarters.
> 
> Jenners teenage daughters, Kendall and Kylie, have reportedly spent millions in recent months on their own homes in the Los Angeles area.



What a view! I'd love to wake up each morning and look at that view from my bedroom window.


----------



## pjhm

SpeedyJC said:


> Oh I know I totally agree with you but many people do not feel that way. I was wondering how this would be enforced too. I guess it wouldn't really affect the random transgender who walks into a store and uses the bathroom but it would more so affect those who are in a building where its known they are transgender be it a school, gym they frequent or work place. We had a client who was transgender not too long ago and  like Caitlyn she didn't have the full transition surgery. When she asked where the ladies room was I didn't think twice before pointing her in the proper direction. I couldn't imagine saying to her sorry but you have to use the mens room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that is a tad bit extreme.




ya think?


----------



## pjhm

Those who lack intelligent arguments resort to name calling.


----------



## Echoes

Wait, what did I miss?

People are using the "I" word on a thread about the Ks and Js?

How is that possible?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys
Being a fan of Caitlyn has nothing to do with it. It's about being a fan  of respect to other human beings and understanding their differences.  You don't seem to get that.

Originally Posted by *Coach Lover Too*                               You mean like referring to someone as *Homo Thug.* *Your* words.
Respectful much? I didn't think so.


Sassys
 That is what THEY call themselves. I know plenty of "Homo Thugs" and that is THEIR term, not mine.
WTF, are you talking about? Nice try though.




I'm talking about pot meet kettle. You were the one preaching to be respectful but in the same breath you use a derogatory term to describe someone. You seem to pick and choose whatever suits your argument at the moment. Search your comments. Maybe you've forgotten some things you've actually said.  Instead of worrying about me, try worrying about yourself.
Black people sometimes use the *n* word in their own conversations  too, but that doesn't mean others should.


----------



## Sarni

Coach Lover Too said:


> Sassys
> Being a fan of Caitlyn has nothing to do with it. It's about being a fan  of respect to other human beings and understanding their differences.  You don't seem to get that.
> 
> Originally Posted by *Coach Lover Too*                               You mean like referring to someone as *Homo Thug.* *Your* words.
> Respectful much? I didn't think so.
> 
> 
> Sassys
> That is what THEY call themselves. I know plenty of "Homo Thugs" and that is THEIR term, not mine.
> WTF, are you talking about? Nice try though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about pot meet kettle. You were the one preaching to be respectful but in the same breath you use a derogatory term to describe someone. You seem to pick and choose whatever suits your argument at the moment. Search your comments. Maybe you've forgotten some things you've actually said.  Instead of worrying about me, try worrying about yourself.
> Black people sometimes use the *n* word in their own conversations  too, but that doesn't mean others should.




Good grief....you appear to be posting primarily to stir things up. It's annoying af!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

She asked what I was talking about in my comment and I answered her. Feel free to keep scrolling if it bothers you.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> Sassys
> Being a fan of Caitlyn has nothing to do with it. It's about being a fan  of respect to other human beings and understanding their differences.  You don't seem to get that.
> 
> Originally Posted by *Coach Lover Too*                               You mean like referring to someone as *Homo Thug.* *Your* words.
> Respectful much? I didn't think so.
> 
> 
> Sassys
> That is what THEY call themselves. I know plenty of "Homo Thugs" and that is THEIR term, not mine.
> WTF, are you talking about? Nice try though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm talking about pot meet kettle. You were the one preaching to be respectful but in the same breath you use a derogatory term to describe someone. You seem to pick and choose whatever suits your argument at the moment. Search your comments. Maybe you've forgotten some things you've actually said.  Instead of worrying about me, try worrying about yourself.
> Black people sometimes use the *n* word in their own conversations  too, but that doesn't mean others should.



Try again. Not even making any sense.

While you were busy doing searches for things I have said, you should have also seen me speak about my GAY best friend all the time, and I would never say anything offensive about a gay person. Better luck next time on your search feature.

Adding to ignore list.


----------



## Sassys

Sarni said:


> Good grief....you appear to be posting primarily to stir things up. It's annoying af!



And not even good at it.


----------



## Laila619

Coach Lover Too,

I agree with everything you've said, but it's a losing battle on this thread unfortunately. Oh well.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Laila619 said:


> Coach Lover Too,
> 
> I agree with everything you've said, but it's a losing battle on this thread unfortunately. Oh well.



Only if the battle is for acceptance and a little compassion.

You can dislike Caitlyn's past parenting, side eye the media stuff and STILL respect the transgender journey.

It's not brain surgery.


----------



## DesigningStyle

bag-mania said:


> No, but anyone can start a petition about anything on change.org. There are lots of ridiculous petitions there at any given time.



Thanks I didn't know that.


----------



## Echoes

Hey, there's Ks and Js to sling arrows at.

No need to toss 'em at members.


----------



## guccimamma

the house is amazing, but i'd feel lonely up there. 

i don't like to be too close to people, but i like the feeling of a neighborhood.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

guccimamma said:


> the house is amazing, but i'd feel lonely up there.
> 
> i don't like to be too close to people, but i like the feeling of a neighborhood.



True. I think though that Caitlyn, in the eye of this media storm - even if some part of her is enjoying it (and for sure, that's happening) - is probably going to be in need of a sanctuary like this.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Respect is severely lacking in this thread.

Please try - at least pretend.


----------



## Lapis

DesigningStyle said:


> Yikes.  Revoke Bruce's medal?  Change.org petition now with almost 2000 signatures:
> 
> Dear International Olympic Committee,
> 
> It has recently come to light that gold medalist Bruce Jenner is in fact transgender, and therefore, identifies as a woman. We congratulate Ms. Jenner on these new developments and wish her the best. However, this creates somewhat of a problem as Ms. Jenner (as talented as she is) claims that she has always believed herself to be truly female, and therefore, was in violation of committee rules regarding women competing in men's sports and vice versa. Therefore, it is with a heavy heart that we must ask whether or not it is proper that Ms. Jenner should retain her olympic records in light of this, as we must now either claim that Bruce Jenner and Caitlyn Jenner are two entirely different people (which we know is not true), or that Bruce Jenner was, in fact, a woman participating in a men's event. It is only fair to all involved that women receive their credit as champions of the Decathalon and that the men racing Ms. Jenner are not expected to compete with a superior, streamlined being such as herself.
> 
> We urge Ms. Jenner to support the transgender community by giving up the medals earned by competing against the wrong gender.
> 
> Thank you, and congratulations to Ms. Jenner for her courage!
> 
> #givebackthegold







gracekelly said:


> I trust this is a joke.
> 
> Does anyone recall a Russian female Olympic athlete that had to undergo genetic testing for this very reason?  She was found to have a rare condition, but was banned from further competition.  It is actually a very serious subject.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sports



The power of testosterone; while it's an unfair advantage for a female in a sport against other females to have more testosterone, it doesn't really matter in men's sports unless we are talking doping.


----------



## gracekelly

guccimamma said:


> the house is amazing, but i'd feel lonely up there.
> 
> i don't like to be too close to people, but i like the feeling of a neighborhood.



The house is amazing and very adult and I can see this suiting very well for privacy and contemplation.  However, I do see your point and after a while that much solitude could get to you.  With all the media frenzy, it is probably the perfect place for her right now.  If I was rediscovering myself, that would be the perfect setting.  Looking out at the ocean is calming and relaxing.


----------



## guccimamma

gracekelly said:


> The house is amazing and very adult and I can see this suiting very well for privacy and contemplation.  However, I do see your point and after a while that much solitude could get to you.  With all the media frenzy, it is probably the perfect place for her right now.  If I was rediscovering myself, that would be the perfect setting.  *Looking out at the ocean is calming and relaxing.*



i guess when i look at the beach from a distance, all i can think of is...i wish i were at the beach 

but i guess he had that in Malibu for a long time...and this is what she needs.


----------



## glamourous1098

I understand that for people who are comfortable within their gender identity, being transgender can be a very difficult thing to wrap one's head around.  That being said, ignorance (even unintentional) is not a free pass to say offensive things - LGBT issues are no different from race, religion, etc.  Not your genitals, not your problem.


----------



## papertiger

RueMonge said:


> I appreciate the education I'm getting in this thread...don't have to agree with everyone to learn something.
> 
> I do agree with most that Bruce was a horrible parent. So far I don't see that Caitlyn is any better. Time will tell.
> 
> The Jenner fame provides a great platform for what so many are facing in secret, which is wonderful.
> 
> I have concerns that most people won't have the kind of money and connections for the plastic surgery and national unveiling with the best photographer, make up, wardrobe, etc which seems to set the bar a little too high.  And I have concerns that a post transition woman has to be such a stereotypical sexualized female (Jon Stewart nailed it).
> 
> As much as I side eye Bruce's previous behavior, it is so delightful that in all the scripted, manufactured krap on the K show, he had the real story all the time, but couldn't tell it.
> 
> Thank you all for this discussion and I hope it doesn't get shut down.



A very thoughtful post.

I have to declare an interest as I'm involved in a film that documents what turned out to be a dramatic and sad life of someone who was transgender. 

Having had 2 friends who I knew as boys (as a girl) who are now women. They have both chosen _uber _glamourous personae and do not look or behave like the majority of my other female friends.  And as someone who tries to argue that women can choose to do (or not do) most of the things men can, it's disquieting to hear one of my friends think women shouldn't go out without make up, and the other "_hideous_ brogues are only for lesbians" etc 'lesbians' was not used a term of endearment. And, though I'm sure there are transgender people who are, neither of my friends are not warm fuzzy, liberal, accepting types at all. 

People's (transgender's are people) personality doesn't magically change though their appearance might, 'Bruce' does not suddenly disappear, 'Bruce' was probably always Caitlin. And problems don't always suddenly dissolve with a new hair cut.  Transgender people are not angels or devils just people with as many/few faults as others. Caitlin is not any better or worse than she was, but let's hope she's happier. 

I'd like to point out transgender has nothing to do with being gay. Nothing at all, unless after someone transitions he or she prefer same sex partners. 

I have sympathy for the children. We champion the individual that can at last express him/herself openly but judge for how their nearest and dearest think or express themselves over the matter. Even though they are to an extent grown-up, even adults can mourn for the loss of _their_ real father, even if their father was living a fantasy. I feel a huge public pressure on the children to give Caitlin a happy ending, even though this is just a beginning for her and she will have to learn not just what it feels like as a woman inwardly (what ever that means to her I guess) and outwardly, but also how women are treated (as opposed to men) and particularly older women in our society (by both genders, often mocked for trying to look nice or ridiculed for 'not bothering'). Honest responses are what are needed to work through for all the (any) family, not an imposed PC tolerance, an acceptance though barred teeth, life is a learning process.


----------



## Lady Chinadoll

Thank you DesigningStyle & Dangerous curves.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I would love to live in a house like that. I've spent so much of my life living in (way too much IMO) proximity of people. I need a break!


----------



## Coco Belle

papertiger said:


> I feel a huge public pressure on the children to give Caitlin a happy ending...



This is so true.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Only if the battle is for acceptance and a little compassion.
> 
> You can dislike Caitlyn's past parenting, side eye the media stuff and STILL respect the transgender journey.
> 
> It's not brain surgery.



Respecting the transgender journey doesn't mean I'm required to respect Bruce/Caitlyn. I did respect him as an athlete but I have no respect for him regarding his/her transition on how he's handled it thus far. Honestly, I don't see it ending well, but hopefully for his kids, I'm wrong.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> the house is amazing, but i'd feel lonely up there.
> 
> i don't like to be too close to people, but i like the feeling of a neighborhood.



I agree. Great taste in housing!


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

That house is AMAZING.  With a house like that who the heck would want neighbors. We'd entertain our darn selves. Neighbors get in the way, especially the nosey ones looking out their window all the time lol. The more money you pay the further away your house/neighbors should be, IMO. Except of course in high rises.


----------



## krissa

papertiger said:


> A very thoughtful post.
> 
> I have to declare an interest as I'm involved in a film that documents what turned out to be a dramatic and sad life of someone who was transgender.
> 
> Having had 2 friends who I knew as boys (as a girl) who are now women. They have both chosen _uber _glamourous personae and do not look or behave like the majority of my other female friends.  And as someone who tries to argue that women can choose to do (or not do) most of the things men can, it's disquieting to hear one of my friends think women shouldn't go out without make up, and the other "_hideous_ brogues are only for lesbians" etc 'lesbians' was not used a term of endearment. And, though I'm sure there are transgender people who are, neither of my friends are not warm fuzzy, liberal, accepting types at all.
> 
> People's (transgender's are people) personality doesn't magically change though their appearance might, 'Bruce' does not suddenly disappear, 'Bruce' was probably always Caitlin. And problems don't always suddenly dissolve with a new hair cut.  Transgender people are not angels or devils just people with as many/few faults as others. Caitlin is not any better or worse than she was, but let's hope she's happier.
> 
> I'd like to point out transgender has nothing to do with being gay. Nothing at all, unless after someone transitions he or she prefer same sex partners.
> 
> I have sympathy for the children. We champion the individual that can at last express him/herself openly but judge for how their nearest and dearest think or express themselves over the matter. Even though they are to an extent grown-up, even adults can mourn for the loss of _their_ real father, even if their father was living a fantasy. I feel a huge public pressure on the children to give Caitlin a happy ending, even though this is just a beginning for her and she will have to learn not just what it feels like as a woman inwardly (what ever that means to her I guess) and outwardly, but also how women are treated (as opposed to men) and particularly older women in our society (by both genders, often mocked for trying to look nice or ridiculed for 'not bothering'). Honest responses are what are needed to work through for all the (any) family, not an imposed PC tolerance, an acceptance though barred teeth, life is a learning process.



Lovely post!


----------



## SpeedyJC

Sassys said:


> The Jenner formerly known as Bruce  now Caitlyn  has taken a page from her daughters and bought her own Southern California pad.
> 
> The former Olympian  and former spouse to Kardashian matriarch Kris  dropped more than $3.5 million on an 11-acre spread in Malibu with 360-degree views of the ocean, mountains and canyons, as first reported by Variety.
> 
> The 4-bedroom, 4-bath home sounds plenty cozy, with radiant-heated floors, and fireplaces inside and out. Theres a covered patio, swimming pool and spa, and a downstairs area that could be used as a gym, office or guest quarters.
> 
> Jenners teenage daughters, Kendall and Kylie, have reportedly spent millions in recent months on their own homes in the Los Angeles area.



Wow that house is fabulous.


----------



## Staci_W

Coach lover too 

I can't say I agree with what your saying, but I can say I disagree with the tone of the responses your getting. 

Why is this woman getting flamed for putting her opinion on a celebrity gossip forum? Like I said,  I may not agree with her, but I haven't seen her be disrespectful or out of line. Can't say the same for people responding to her.


----------



## gottaluvmybags

bisousx said:


> Transgender people *are* fearing for their lives and are being murdered.




Yep... I shared before my daughters and I witnessing a man stop his car at an intersection to chug a big gulp (64 oz or so soda) at a transgender woman and he actually hit her in the back of the head and the shoulder.  

It broke my heart.....

Keep in mind this is a mile away from West Hollywood... Can you imagine what they go through in places in which there is no acceptance of the LGBTQ community?


----------



## blackkitty4378

As much as I'm not a fan of Bruce/Caitlyn for various reasons, it's undeniable that this is a huge step forward for the transgender community. Even if it's overexposed and could have been done a more tasteful way, the fact that this is happening and people are starting to accept it and understand it is huge. Caitlyn might not be your hero but she could be someone else's hero. A transgender youth who's suicidal could see this and say "Okay, maybe people might accept me after all." This is saving lives.


----------



## Hobbsy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Only if the battle is for acceptance and a little compassion.
> 
> You can dislike Caitlyn's past parenting, side eye the media stuff and STILL respect the transgender journey.
> 
> It's not brain surgery.



No one has to respect the Trans gender journey if they don't agree and/or believe in it. This would true for anyone who may actually be the opposite of respecting it per their moral and/or religious beliefs.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Staci_W said:


> Coach lover too
> 
> I can't say I agree with what your saying, but I can say I disagree with the tone of the responses your getting.
> 
> Why is this woman getting flamed for putting her opinion on a celebrity gossip forum? Like I said,  I may not agree with her, but I haven't seen her be disrespectful or out of line. Can't say the same for people responding to her.



Thank you for this. I appreciate it.


----------



## blackkitty4378

If you don't want to respect transgender people, that's your choice. If the fact that transgender people are getting murdered due to hate crimes and committing suicide doesn't stir up a little empathy, and doesn't make you think "hmm maybe I should be a little more tolerant, although it is a foreign concept to me that I'm unsure of" then I don't know what will. Carry on.


----------



## lovemysavior

I am not a supporter of the whole transition, yes, because of my religious beliefs.  I'm not here to bash his decision to become a woman or am I a here to bash the LGBT COMMUNITY.   I have a sister that is lesbian that I love dearly and we have agreed to disagree in what our opinions are about it.  The problem I am having is the over exposure/breaking the Internet talk. I think there has always been some sort of sympathy for Bruce because of all the Kardashian drama he endured. I think if it were Kris or even Kim coming out with a transgender story, it would be so different and not praised as it is with Bruce.  I mean if this is how he feels, then that's between him and his Creator.  Just like people are dealing with murder and suicide for being transgender/gay/lesbian, people are being shot and beheaded for being followers of Christ and no one seems to care about that.  We live in a very harsh world, and it's only going to get worse.  I wish Bruce the best in his new life and will continue to pray for him, but I think there is just too much exposure over it already.  He's not the first or the last to do the transition,  but because he had a celebrity status, it's on major overload. People shouldn't look up to other celebs for inspiration because we all dont have the money or resources to make those expensive alterations.  I see what he is trying to tell the TG community,  but realistically, he should be teaching about loving ourselves especially if you don't have the means to physically alter your appearance.  He has the money to make that major transition,  but what if he was poor and a transgender? What would he do then about not being able to alter his body to match what he feels like inside. Because realistically, many transgender people will have that problem of not being able to pay for the transformation.


----------



## bisousx

lovemysavior said:


> I am not a supporter of the whole transition, yes, because of my religious beliefs.  I'm not here to bash his decision to become a woman or am I a here to bash the LGBT COMMUNITY.   I have a sister that is lesbian that I love dearly and we have agreed to disagree in what our opinions are about it.  The problem I am having is the over exposure/breaking the Internet talk. I think there has always been some sort of sympathy for Bruce because of all the Kardashian drama he endured. I think if it were Kris or even Kim coming out with a transgender story, it would be so different and not praised as it is with Bruce.  I mean if this is how he feels, then that's between him and his Creator.  Just like people are dealing with murder and suicide for being transgender/gay/lesbian, people are being shot and beheaded for being followers of Christ and no one seems to care about that.  We live in a very harsh world, and it's only going to get worse.  I wish Bruce the best in his new life and will continue to pray for him, but I think there is just too much exposure over it already.  He's not the first or the last to do the transition,  but because he had a celebrity status, it's on major overload. People shouldn't look up to other celebs for inspiration because we all dont have the money or resources to make those expensive alterations.  I see what he is trying to tell the TG community,  but realistically, he should be teaching about loving ourselves especially if you don't have the means to physically alter your appearance.  He has the money to make that major transition,  but what if he was poor and a transgender? What would he do then about not being able to alter his body to match what he feels like inside. Because realistically, many transgender people will have that problem of not being able to pay for the transformation.



I respect your opinion and honesty. Personally, I prefer exchanging opinions over hateful talk.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Who said no one cares about people being killed over their religion? Plenty of people have always cared about that. Shining light on the transgender community does in no way shape or form minimize that.

How about no one be killed over the color of their skin/religion/sexual orientation/gender identity? I understand that the human race has a long history of all of that. But this is the time to raise awareness for the LGBT community, which has only recently become even somewhat acceptable in certain areas of the world, and to a very small degree. In some parts of the world it's even worse.

And about it being overexposed, others and I agree with you. But the general consensus (at least the things I've read) is that the trans community is happy that this is even being talked about in the first place. It's a step in the right direction.


----------



## Singra

RueMonge said:


> I appreciate the education I'm getting in this thread...don't have to agree with everyone to learn something.
> 
> I do agree with most that Bruce was a horrible parent. So far I don't see that Caitlyn is any better. Time will tell.
> 
> The Jenner fame provides a great platform for what so many are facing in secret, which is wonderful.
> 
> *I have concerns that most people won't have the kind of money and connections for the plastic surgery and national unveiling with the best photographer, make up, wardrobe, etc which seems to set the bar a little too high.  And I have concerns that a post transition woman has to be such a stereotypical sexualized female (Jon Stewart nailed it).*
> 
> As much as I side eye Bruce's previous behavior, it is so delightful that in all the scripted, manufactured krap on the K show, he had the real story all the time, but couldn't tell it.
> 
> Thank you all for this discussion and I hope it doesn't get shut down.



A very good point.




papertiger said:


> A very thoughtful post.
> 
> I have to declare an interest as I'm involved in a film that documents what turned out to be a dramatic and sad life of someone who was transgender.
> 
> Having had 2 friends who I knew as boys (as a girl) who are now women. They have both chosen _uber _glamourous personae and do not look or behave like the majority of my other female friends.  And as someone who tries to argue that women can choose to do (or not do) most of the things men can, it's disquieting to hear one of my friends think women shouldn't go out without make up, and the other "_hideous_ brogues are only for lesbians" etc 'lesbians' was not used a term of endearment. And, though I'm sure there are transgender people who are, neither of my friends are not warm fuzzy, liberal, accepting types at all.
> 
> People's (transgender's are people) personality doesn't magically change though their appearance might, 'Bruce' does not suddenly disappear, 'Bruce' was probably always Caitlin. And problems don't always suddenly dissolve with a new hair cut.  Transgender people are not angels or devils just people with as many/few faults as others. Caitlin is not any better or worse than she was, but let's hope she's happier.
> 
> I'd like to point out transgender has nothing to do with being gay. Nothing at all, unless after someone transitions he or she prefer same sex partners.
> 
> I have sympathy for the children. We champion the individual that can at last express him/herself openly but judge for how their nearest and dearest think or express themselves over the matter. Even though they are to an extent grown-up, even adults can mourn for the loss of _their_ real father, even if their father was living a fantasy. I feel a huge public pressure on the children to give Caitlin a happy ending, even though this is just a beginning for her and she will have to learn not just what it feels like as a woman inwardly (what ever that means to her I guess) and outwardly, but also how women are treated (as opposed to men) and particularly older women in our society (by both genders, often mocked for trying to look nice or ridiculed for 'not bothering'). Honest responses are what are needed to work through for all the (any) family, not an imposed PC tolerance, an acceptance though barred teeth, life is a learning process.





krissa said:


> Lovely post!



Yeah I concur. I really appreciate a well thought out post, thanks paper tiger!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> If you don't want to respect transgender people, that's your choice. If the fact that transgender people are getting murdered due to hate crimes and committing suicide doesn't stir up a little empathy, and doesn't make you think "hmm maybe I should be a little more tolerant, although it is a foreign concept to me that I'm unsure of" then I don't know what will. Carry on.



I never once said I don't respect transgender people. I said I don't respect Bruce and the way he's handled things so far. There is such a thing as separating the two.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Coach Lover Too said:


> I never once said I don't respect transgender people. I said I don't respect Bruce and the way he's handled things so far. There is such a thing as separating the two.



Wasn't directed at you Coach Lover. I know where you stand. I was talking to those who said that they won't respect transgender people.


----------



## ByeKitty

Staci_W said:


> Coach lover too
> 
> I can't say I agree with what your saying, but I can say I disagree with the tone of the responses your getting.
> 
> Why is this woman getting flamed for putting her opinion on a celebrity gossip forum? Like I said,  I may not agree with her, but I haven't seen her be disrespectful or out of line. Can't say the same for people responding to her.


I disagree with both the tone of some responses and the tone of her posts. I felt like she has been very quick to brand those that disagree with her as holier-than-thou, politically correct, and Bruce fanclub members. She has just been more subtle in the way she formulated it than some of the people who responded to that.



lovemysavior said:


> I am not a supporter of the whole transition, yes, because of my religious beliefs.  I'm not here to bash his decision to become a woman or am I a here to bash the LGBT COMMUNITY.   I have a sister that is lesbian that I love dearly and we have agreed to disagree in what our opinions are about it.  The problem I am having is the over exposure/breaking the Internet talk. I think there has always been some sort of sympathy for Bruce because of all the Kardashian drama he endured. I think if it were Kris or even Kim coming out with a transgender story, it would be so different and not praised as it is with Bruce.  I mean if this is how he feels, then that's between him and his Creator.  Just like people are dealing with murder and suicide for being transgender/gay/lesbian, people are being shot and beheaded for being followers of Christ and no one seems to care about that.  We live in a very harsh world, and it's only going to get worse.  I wish Bruce the best in his new life and will continue to pray for him, but I think there is just too much exposure over it already.  He's not the first or the last to do the transition,  but because he had a celebrity status, it's on major overload. People shouldn't look up to other celebs for inspiration because we all dont have the money or resources to make those expensive alterations.  I see what he is trying to tell the TG community,  but realistically, he should be teaching about loving ourselves especially if you don't have the means to physically alter your appearance.  He has the money to make that major transition,  but what if he was poor and a transgender? What would he do then about not being able to alter his body to match what he feels like inside. Because realistically, many transgender people will have that problem of not being able to pay for the transformation.



Thanks for your thoughtful post. Yes, people are killed for many reasons (religion, ethnicity...), but being hurt for being gay or transgender really is just as awful. I'm confident your religion makes no such distinction: hurting others is wrong, regardless of the exact motive. Am I correct? However, there are some religions out there that are prone to fundamentalist interpretations, and that can be dangerous.

Concerning your last sentence: I've seen this argument posted a few times here! From what I've seen, people who start the hormone treatments at a younger age can really change the shape of their figure and facial features. But of course there are always some things that could be "improved", they just may not need as many procedures as Bruce, who already had kind of a...flawed canvas before becoming Caitlyn.



Coach Lover Too said:


> I never once said I don't respect transgender people. I said I don't respect Bruce and the way he's handled things so far. There is such a thing as separating the two.



But you're saying that while you have no idea what exactly has been going on with him, and when his transition truly ends. It just seems like you have a hard time accepting that Bruce just might actually _be_ a woman deep down. I do understand that that's a hard thing to wrap your mind around.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> Wasn't directed at you Coach Lover. I know where you stand. I was talking to those who said that they won't respect transgender people.



Oh I'm sorry. I apologize.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> I disagree with both the tone of some responses and the tone of her posts. I felt like she has been very quick to brand those that disagree with her as holier-than-thou, politically correct, and Bruce fanclub members. She has just been more subtle in the way she formulated it than some of the people who responded to that.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your thoughtful post. Yes, people are killed for many reasons (religion, ethnicity...), but being hurt for being gay or transgender really is just as awful. I'm confident your religion makes no such distinction: hurting others is wrong, regardless of the exact motive. Am I correct? However, there are some religions out there that are prone to fundamentalist interpretations, and that can be dangerous.
> 
> Concerning your last sentence: I've seen this argument posted a few times here! From what I've seen, people who start the hormone treatments at a younger age can really change the shape of their figure and facial features. But of course there are always some things that could be "improved", they just may not need as many procedures as Bruce, who already had kind of a...flawed canvas before becoming Caitlyn.
> 
> 
> 
> *But you're saying that while you have no idea what exactly has been going on with him, and when his transition truly ends. It just seems like you have a hard time accepting that Bruce just might actually be a woman deep down. I do understand that that's a hard thing to wrap your mind around*.



No, not at all. The fact that Bruce couldn't seem to make up his mind for years, all the while continuing the facade and not caring who he hurt in the process, and then stating on his interview with Diane Sawyer that he wanted to finish his transition so he could live his life quietly is what I have the problem with. Bruce/Caitlyn seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Had he/she proceeded with the transition out of the public eye, and then a year or so later respectfully shared his story it would be easier to accept that he/she's genuine about everything. Right now it seems the whole intention is to try and outdo the rest of the K family. It's as though he/she is competing to see who can stay in the spotlight the longest. 


I agree with whoever said that if he/she can save one life then it's all worth it though. Everyone needs someone to look up to but if I had a transgender child I would hope they wouldn't pick Bruce/Caitlyn as their role model.


----------



## Romagirl

Coach Lover Too said:


> No, not at all. The fact that Bruce couldn't seem to make up his mind for years, all the while continuing the facade and not caring who he hurt in the process, and then stating on his interview with Diane Sawyer that he wanted to finish his transition so he could live his life quietly is what I have the problem with. Bruce/Caitlyn seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth.
> Had he/she proceeded with the transition out of the public eye, and then a year or so later respectfully shared his story it would be easier to accept that he/she's genuine about everything. Right now it seems the whole intention is to try and outdo the rest of the K family. It's as though he/she is competing to see who can stay in the spotlight the longest.
> 
> 
> I agree with whoever said that if he/she can save one life then it's all worth it though. Everyone needs someone to look up to but if I had a transgender child I would hope they wouldn't pick Bruce/Caitlyn as their role model.




Have you stopped to consider the magnitude of this decision?  To alter ones life in such a way is nothing to take lightly, and I can perfectly well understand that its a decision that may take years to come to and years to have the courage to go through.  I understand that Bruce was not an ideal parent but I cant help but feel that he waited until the last of his children were at an age whereby they could grasp the reality of situation and perhaps handle it better than when they younger. So what if he couldn't make up his mind in what you deem an appropriate timeframe.   I understand that if you were transitioning you would have made the decision earlier but youre not Caitlyn.  Further, maybe transitioning in the public eye works best for Caitlyn.  Some people need utter privacy and some are an open book.  To each his own.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Romagirl said:


> Have you stopped to consider the magnitude of this decision?  To alter ones life in such a way is nothing to take lightly, and I can perfectly well understand that its a decision that may take years to come to and years to have the courage to go through.  I understand that Bruce was not an ideal parent but I cant help but feel that he waited until the last of his children were at an age whereby they could grasp the reality of situation and perhaps handle it better than when they younger. So what if he couldn't make up his mind in what you deem an appropriate timeframe.   I understand that if you were transitioning you would have made the decision earlier but youre not Caitlyn.  Further, maybe transitioning in the public eye works best for Caitlyn.  Some people need utter privacy and some are an open book.  To each his own.



I have considered that, but like I said, just because that's the way he/she chose to transition doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Bruce agreed a long time ago to live his life in the public eye and now being Caitlyn and continuing the same way of life, he/she should except that people are going to voice their differences of opinion. Speculation, cynicism and gossip goes hand in hand with being an entertainer and getting paid to live your life out on television. Everything comes with a price.

I'm in awe that people seem to forget this is a *gossip/celebrity thread.*


----------



## too through

Romagirl said:


> Have you stopped to consider the magnitude of this decision?  To alter ones life in such a way is nothing to take lightly, and I can perfectly well understand that its a decision that may take years to come to and years to have the courage to go through.  I understand that Bruce was not an ideal parent but I cant help but feel that he waited until the last of his children were at an age whereby they could grasp the reality of situation and perhaps handle it better than when they younger. So what if he couldn't make up his mind in what you deem an appropriate timeframe.   I understand that if you were transitioning you would have made the decision earlier but youre not Caitlyn.  Further, maybe transitioning in the public eye works best for Caitlyn.  Some people need utter privacy and some are an open book.  To each his own.


And it seems that she was attempting to go through the transition quietly and without fanfare but somehow (PMK) paps followed him from his doctor's office after a procedure, paps followed him while running errands so they could zoom in on his nail polish and sports bra, etc.  Maybe she did the public reveal because it was being made public anyways and this way she could be the one telling the story rather than the rather ugly way the paps were playing this out.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

too through said:


> And it seems that she was attempting to go through the transition quietly and without fanfare but somehow (PMK) paps followed him from his doctor's office after a procedure, paps followed him while running errands so they could zoom in on his nail polish and sports bra, etc.  Maybe she did the public reveal because it was being made public anyways and this way she could be the one telling the story rather than the rather ugly way the paps were playing this out.



And an argument to that could be because *if* the paparazzi broke the story and got pictures instead of Bruce/Caitlyn doing the story under their own terms, then there would have been no money to be made. Just a thought.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Caitlyn is a famewhore just like the rest of the Kardashian/Jenners.


----------



## Cocolo

I can't think till I've had my morning work out, so, let me put this here, and we'll all do it together.


I'm sorry, but I'm tired of hearing about poor Bruce.  Poor woman who died because Bruce was in the throws of having breasts put in and was distracted while he drove, pondering his/her choices.  That innocent driver has no more choices.  Caitlyn as Bruce has been so focused on his own choices, he doesn't seem to care much about others. Was Bruce too wrapped up in his inner turmoil to lend a hand in raising his kids? The first 4 see an absentee father, and the younger 2 didn't benefit from his wisdom.  Why didn't he foster a desire for an education?

And I'm tired of Caitlyn's "I've got a secret" smirk.  It wasn't a secret.  tPF posters called him out on it years ago.   Jenner is a trainwreck.  I'll feel sorry for Bruce, when Jenner shows any kind of compassion for another human.  Jenner may be getting an award, but a transgendered friend said she  is not eager to have Caitlyn Jenner as the new symbol of Transgender.  She said "Choose a humanitarian" who happens to have transgendered.  Can't argue there.  A person who wants his wife to abort a 2nd baby, because he is also sleeping with the woman he wants to marry.  Soap Opera city.  Luckily a good friend talked 1st wife out of it, and Cassie is his 2nd child.

I apologize if I offended anyone, but I was such a big Bruce Jenner fan, till I started learning about the ugly person he was inside.  And, when that fatal car crash happened, had I been the cause, 3 months later I wouldn't be coming out into the spotlight saying "Look at me Look at me".   They say his breast surgery was in March.  I'd love to see the timeline regarding the surgery and the accident.  When your life choices and self-absorption result in the loss of life or freedom for another, why the eff are you getting an award?   ​


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bravo. 

Where were you and BagOuttaHell the other day? I coulda used your help.


----------



## zippie

cocolo said:


> i can't think till i've had my morning work out, so, let me put this here, and we'll all do it together.​
> 
> ​
> 
> i'm sorry, but i'm tired of hearing about poor bruce.  Poor woman who died because bruce was in the throws of having breasts put in and was distracted while he drove, pondering his/her choices.  That innocent driver has no more choices.  Caitlyn as bruce has been so focused on his own choices, he doesn't seem to care much about others. Was bruce too wrapped up in his inner turmoil to lend a hand in raising his kids? The first 4 see an absentee father, and the younger 2 didn't benefit from his wisdom.  Why didn't he foster a desire for an education?​
> 
> 
> and i'm tired of caitlyn's "i've got a secret" smirk.  It wasn't a secret.  Tpf posters called him out on it years ago.   Jenner is a trainwreck.  I'll feel sorry for bruce, when jenner shows any kind of compassion for another human.  Jenner may be getting an award, but a transgendered friend said she  is not eager to have caitlyn jenner as the new symbol of transgender.  She said "choose a humanitarian" who happens to have transgendered.  Can't argue there.  A person who wants his wife to abort a 2nd baby, because he is also sleeping with the woman he wants to marry.  Soap opera city.  Luckily a good friend talked 1st wife out of it, and cassie is his 2nd child.​
> 
> 
> i apologize if i offended anyone, but i was such a big bruce jenner fan, till i started learning about the ugly person he was inside.  And, when that fatal car crash happened, had i been the cause, 3 months later i wouldn't be coming out into the spotlight saying "look at me look at me".   They say his breast surgery was in march.  I'd love to see the timeline regarding the surgery and the accident.  When your life choices and self-absorption result in the loss of life or freedom for another, why the eff are you getting an award?​





this


----------



## Jayne1

BagOuttaHell said:


> Caitlyn is a famewhore just like the rest of the Kardashian/Jenners.


A famewhore and a capitalist&#8230; she said she was well aware of all the money to be made with this and it would be stupid not to take advantage of it.

There's something very self absorbed about B/C&#8230; maybe many transgenders are like that. It's so all consuming.

By the way&#8230; Linda was so beautiful, back in the day.  Her whole face and body belong to a different person now.


----------



## exotikittenx

lovemysavior said:


> I am not a supporter of the whole transition, yes, because of my religious beliefs.  I'm not here to bash his decision to become a woman or am I a here to bash the LGBT COMMUNITY.   I have a sister that is lesbian that I love dearly and we have agreed to disagree in what our opinions are about it.  The problem I am having is the over exposure/breaking the Internet talk. I think there has always been some sort of sympathy for Bruce because of all the Kardashian drama he endured. I think if it were Kris or even Kim coming out with a transgender story, it would be so different and not praised as it is with Bruce.  I mean if this is how he feels, then that's between him and his Creator.  Just like people are dealing with murder and suicide for being transgender/gay/lesbian, people are being shot and beheaded for being followers of Christ and no one seems to care about that.  We live in a very harsh world, and it's only going to get worse.  I wish Bruce the best in his new life and will continue to pray for him, but I think there is just too much exposure over it already.  He's not the first or the last to do the transition,  but because he had a celebrity status, it's on major overload. People shouldn't look up to other celebs for inspiration because we all dont have the money or resources to make those expensive alterations.  I see what he is trying to tell the TG community,  but realistically, he should be teaching about loving ourselves especially if you don't have the means to physically alter your appearance.  He has the money to make that major transition,  but what if he was poor and a transgender? What would he do then about not being able to alter his body to match what he feels like inside. Because realistically, many transgender people will have that problem of not being able to pay for the transformation.



While you and I are not the same in our beliefs, I think it is important, as you pointed out, that not everyone can afford these medical transitions that Caitlyn is privileged enough to afford.  I hope that she uses her fame status to promote more awareness of this issue and ways in which it can be dealt with when people do not have the same means of wealth to afford any surgeries.


----------



## prettyprincess

Hobbsy said:


> No one has to respect the Trans gender journey if they don't agree and/or believe in it. This would true for anyone who may actually be the opposite of respecting it per their moral and/or religious beliefs.



I personally don't agree or believe in it, but that doesn't mean I'm out burning crosses or recommending Mein Kampf in my book club.


----------



## Hobbsy

blackkitty4378 said:


> If you don't want to respect transgender people, that's your choice. If the fact that transgender people are getting murdered due to hate crimes and committing suicide doesn't stir up a little empathy, and doesn't make you think "hmm maybe I should be a little more tolerant, although it is a foreign concept to me that I'm unsure of" then I don't know what will. Carry on.



Nothing about me was in my post. No one or nothing has to be respected by anyone if they so choose not to, it's not a requirement.  That's all I was saying. Carry on.


----------



## ByeKitty

That workout video is killing me


----------



## exotikittenx

Coach Lover Too said:


> I have considered that, but like I said, just because that's the way he/she chose to transition doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Bruce agreed a long time ago to live his life in the public eye and now being Caitlyn and continuing the same way of life, he/she should except that people are going to voice their differences of opinion. Speculation, cynicism and gossip goes hand in hand with being an entertainer and getting paid to live your life out on television. Everything comes with a price.
> 
> I'm in awe that people seem to forget this is a *gossip/celebrity thread.*




Perhaps this is a gossip/celebrity thread, but we are sitting here at our computers in a real world, with real problems.  The world is not a gossip/celebrity thread, and the recent revelations of Caitlyn carry the weight of a major societal impact for many, many people, myself included. It's not like a celebrity stepped out in a funky outfit.  There is a lot more to this than something superficial.  But, please, carry on putting forth your lighthearted gossip.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Lol this thread is too much.


----------



## Grace123

Jon Stewart nailed my feelings about this:


http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/03/bruce-jenner-coverage-sexist/

Caitlyn, when you were a man, we could talk about your athleticism, your business acumen. But now youre a woman, and your looks are really the only thing we care about, Stewart said."

Watch the video for full comments.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> I never once said I don't respect transgender people. I said I don't respect Bruce and the way he's handled things so far. There is such a thing as separating the two.



But some of your comments apply to the trans community when you are bashing her too. Saying she's not a woman she's a cross dresser because she has a penis and to stop flip flopping on getting the surgery applies to a large percentage of that community including your fav Chaz Bono. If she isn't a woman because of that reason you list then neither are all the transgender people in the same boat, who don't know exactly what they are going to do with their private parts. A comment like that isn't respectful of their community. And neither are other comments you left like like Caitlyn not "acting like a transgender"....You think you are respectful and tolerant but you've showed otherwise more than once.


----------



## Jikena

ByeKitty said:


> That workout video is killing me



Me too.


----------



## exotikittenx

Grace123 said:


> Jon Stewart nailed my feelings about this:
> 
> 
> http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/03/bruce-jenner-coverage-sexist/
> 
> Caitlyn, when you were a man, we could talk about your athleticism, your business acumen. But now youre a woman, and your looks are really the only thing we care about, Stewart said."
> 
> Watch the video for full comments.



This is so spot on.  Bravo, Jon Stewart!


----------



## tweegy

jimmyshoogirl said:


> lol this thread is too much.




+1


----------



## Avril

Sassys said:


> Kim will kill herself :lolots::lolots:
> 
> *Move over Kendall! Caitlyn Jenner reportedly set to star in a  campaign for MAC Cosmetics - just days after making first public appearance as a  woman *
> 
> 
> *Caitlyn, 65, would follow a long  list of A-list campaign stars including Lady Gaga, Rihanna, and Christina  Aguilera *
> *Move over Kendall! Caitlyn Jenner  reportedly set to star in a campaign for MAC Cosmetics - just days after making  first public appearance as a woman *
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ng-public-appearance-woman.html#ixzz3c2HR3mkG



No way!!! This is awesome. The Ks most be seething with jealousy.

The comments in this thread are so  Why can't we all just accept people with however way they identify themselves - be it straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender? We are not living in the 1950s any longer, it's 2015 and the world has moved on. Jees.

I think Caitlyn looks great. It took guts to come out to the world the way she has done, 65 years of bottling this up is not good. Finally she can be free and live her life on her terms rather than hiding behind a false persona for so long.

In other news ... Still no tweet or anything from PMK! Ouch, she must be suffering the rage. She did tweet 13h ago about a friend's birthday but nothing about Caitlyn.


----------



## Lapis

papertiger said:


> A very thoughtful post.
> 
> I have to declare an interest as I'm involved in a film that documents what turned out to be a dramatic and sad life of someone who was transgender.
> *
> Having had 2 friends who I knew as boys (as a girl) who are now women. They have both chosen uber glamourous personae and do not look or behave like the majority of my other female friends.  And as someone who tries to argue that women can choose to do (or not do) most of the things men can, it's disquieting to hear one of my friends think women shouldn't go out without make up, and the other "hideous brogues are only for lesbians" etc 'lesbians' was not used a term of endearment. And, though I'm sure there are transgender people who are, neither of my friends are not warm fuzzy, liberal, accepting types at all. *
> 
> People's (transgender's are people) personality doesn't magically change though their appearance might, 'Bruce' does not suddenly disappear, 'Bruce' was probably always Caitlin. And problems don't always suddenly dissolve with a new hair cut.  Transgender people are not angels or devils just people with as many/few faults as others. Caitlin is not any better or worse than she was, but let's hope she's happier.
> 
> I'd like to point out transgender has nothing to do with being gay. Nothing at all, unless after someone transitions he or she prefer same sex partners.
> 
> I have sympathy for the children. We champion the individual that can at last express him/herself openly but judge for how their nearest and dearest think or express themselves over the matter. Even though they are to an extent grown-up, even adults can mourn for the loss of _their_ real father, even if their father was living a fantasy. I feel a huge public pressure on the children to give Caitlin a happy ending, even though this is just a beginning for her and she will have to learn not just what it feels like as a woman inwardly (what ever that means to her I guess) and outwardly, but also how women are treated (as opposed to men) and particularly older women in our society (by both genders, often mocked for trying to look nice or ridiculed for 'not bothering'). Honest responses are what are needed to work through for all the (any) family, not an imposed PC tolerance, an acceptance though barred teeth, life is a learning process.



The bold is strange to me, I know and I am friends with multiple trans people/parents of trans kids, and they are to a man, woman and child - super loving, kind, liberal, non judgey types. 
One whom I'm proud to be a member of their created family, I have never heard a bad word out of his mouth even against people who stole his intellectual work, and slandered his name. 
Another I've seen face the jeers and nastiness with grace, and love I don't have. **** even my friend's kid was kinder than the adults that treated her like a 2nd class citizen.

One of my friends posted on social media how he considered Caitlyn a neocon princess BUT he'd over the years kept himself in fringe communities because of the general public's attitude towards him as a trans person, now Caitlyn had given people that normally rejected him a starting point to come to the table with and for him that was a positive.


----------



## tweegy

Sooooo... Thoughts on the reality show preview??


----------



## guccimamma

it's for me to hear so much positive attention given to her, because a couple months ago...she killed a woman due to inattentive driving.

her life had value.


----------



## Avril

guccimamma said:


> it's for me to hear so much positive attention given to her, because a couple months ago...she killed a woman due to inattentive driving.
> 
> her life had value.



I don't recall anybody dismissing the car crash. Nobody here has referred to that as all we are talking about is the transition - two entirely unrelated subjects. And I hope justice is served regarding that car crash because Bruce then was completely in the wrong.


----------



## tweegy

What IS going on with that tho?? I haven't heard anything really


----------



## papertiger

Lapis said:


> The bold is strange to me, I know and I am friends with multiple trans people/parents of trans kids, and they are to a man, woman and child - super loving, kind, liberal, non judgey types.
> One whom I'm proud to be a member of their created family, I have never heard a bad word out of his mouth even against people who stole his intellectual work, and slandered his name.
> Another I've seen face the jeers and nastiness with grace, and love I don't have. **** even my friend's kid was kinder than the adults that treated her like a 2nd class citizen.
> 
> One of my friends posted on social media how he considered Caitlyn a neocon princess BUT he'd over the years kept himself in fringe communities because of the general public's attitude towards him as a trans person, now Caitlyn had given people that normally rejected him a starting point to come to the table with and for him that was a positive.



We are agreeing with each another, hence the last sentence (you) bolded. 

I don't know why transgender (or _any_) people have to be nice/nicer/nicest or anything. I _love_ my friends (transgender or not) the way they are, nobody's perfect, and happily they accept me the way I am too. My mother's transgender friend was murdered in London in the 1980s, why does _anyone_ have to be nicer than average to justify walking free and being alive? (That's rhetorical)


----------



## Lapis

tweegy said:


> Sooooo... Thoughts on the reality show preview??



Not watching. 
While I'm pleased that Caitlyn is free to be whom she is, ain't nobody got time for that.


----------



## bag-mania

tweegy said:


> What IS going on with that tho?? I haven't heard anything really



The woman's stepchildren are suing. It is reported it will be a  difficult case to prove though, since they are both adults and had had little contact with the accident victim for many years.


----------



## sdkitty

tweegy said:


> What IS going on with that tho?? I haven't heard anything really


last I heard the family of a 69-year-old was suing Bruce.  They claim they were financially dependent on the 69-year-old (I don't remember whether it was a man or woman).  If you are a healthy adult and dependent on your parent at that age (I'm assuming these "kids" are probably in their 40's), then this seems like just a money grab to me.


----------



## Lapis

papertiger said:


> We are agreeing with each another, hence the last sentence (you) bolded.
> 
> I don't know why transgender (or _any_) people have to be nice/nicer/nicest or anything. I _love_ my friends (transgender or not) the way they are, nobody's perfect, and happily they accept me the way I am too. My mother's transgender friend was murdered in London in the 1980s, why does _anyone_ have to be nicer than average to justify walking free and being alive? (That's rhetorical)



Oh I know we agree with each other.
It's just the people I know are nice, don't get me wrong they have a**hole moments, and they are FAR from perfect; but they really try to live love and acceptance, they put out into the world what they want back. 
Does that make sense?


----------



## DesigningStyle

Lady Chinadoll said:


> Thank you DesigningStyle & Dangerous curves.



You are welcome.  I am humbled.


----------



## glamourous1098

Jayne1 said:


> A famewhore and a capitalist she said she was well aware of all the money to be made with this and it would be stupid not to take advantage of it.
> 
> *There's something very self absorbed about B/C maybe many transgenders are like that. It's so all consuming.*
> 
> By the way Linda was so beautiful, back in the day.  Her whole face and body belong to a different person now.



I'm sorry, what?  Just because Caitlyn might be self-absorbed doesn't automatically make all trans people like that.  It's like saying that you have an obnoxious friend who happens to be gay, therefore all gay people are obnoxious.


----------



## papertiger

Lapis said:


> Oh I know we agree with each other.
> It's just the people I know are nice, don't get me wrong they have a**hole moments, and they are FAR from perfect; but they really try to live love and acceptance, they put out into the world what they want back.
> *Does that make sense?*


----------



## B. Jara

Cocolo said:


> I can't think till I've had my morning work out, so, let me put this here, and we'll all do it together.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm tired of hearing about poor Bruce.  Poor woman who died because Bruce was in the throws of having breasts put in and was distracted while he drove, pondering his/her choices.  That innocent driver has no more choices.  Caitlyn as Bruce has been so focused on his own choices, he doesn't seem to care much about others. Was Bruce too wrapped up in his inner turmoil to lend a hand in raising his kids? The first 4 see an absentee father, and the younger 2 didn't benefit from his wisdom.  Why didn't he foster a desire for an education?
> 
> And I'm tired of Caitlyn's "I've got a secret" smirk.  It wasn't a secret.  tPF posters called him out on it years ago.   Jenner is a trainwreck.  I'll feel sorry for Bruce, when Jenner shows any kind of compassion for another human.  Jenner may be getting an award, but a transgendered friend said she  is not eager to have Caitlyn Jenner as the new symbol of Transgender.  She said "Choose a humanitarian" who happens to have transgendered.  Can't argue there.  A person who wants his wife to abort a 2nd baby, because he is also sleeping with the woman he wants to marry.  Soap Opera city.  Luckily a good friend talked 1st wife out of it, and Cassie is his 2nd child.
> 
> I apologize if I offended anyone, but I was such a big Bruce Jenner fan, till I started learning about the ugly person he was inside.  And, when that fatal car crash happened, had I been the cause, 3 months later I wouldn't be coming out into the spotlight saying "Look at me Look at me".   They say his breast surgery was in March.  I'd love to see the timeline regarding the surgery and the accident.  When your life choices and self-absorption result in the loss of life or freedom for another, why the eff are you getting an award?   ​






Regarding the timeline of events in the last paragraph - the accident was Feb 7th and the surgery was March 15th. 

Incidentally, third picture was taken around Feb 28th. [emoji35]


----------



## bag-mania

That video! 

Why the hell did we think leg warmers were cool in the 80s?


----------



## tweegy

bag-mania said:


> That video!
> 
> Why the hell did we think leg warmers were cool in the 80s?




[emoji136] cause they absolutely were!


----------



## gracekelly

How about a shout out for Christine Jorgenson?  She is probably the first famous transgender.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgensen


----------



## gracekelly

Jane Fonda Work Out!



bag-mania said:


> That video!
> 
> Why the hell did we think leg warmers were cool in the 80s?


----------



## Cocolo

Avril said:


> I don't recall anybody dismissing the car crash. Nobody here has referred to that as all we are talking about is the transition - two entirely unrelated subjects. And I hope justice is served regarding that car crash because Bruce then was completely in the wrong.



I referred to it while I was mentioning  things Bruce/Caitlyn has done to show the ugliness in their actions.  I think it's very cavalier and shows a disregard for other people if you can cause a fatal accident and shortly thereafter Blossom into the media sensation Caitlyn has become.  You only walk away from that and move forward as they have if you just don't give a flounce about anyone but yourself.  

'Car crash, omg, am I all right?  Yeah, I'm fine. Thank God.  Nothing derails me me me me me me me. Oh no, a fatality? Will this hamper my plans for the big reveal? No? Oh good.  I was worried for a second.'    Does Caitlyn feel anything when she looks into Cassie's eyes and think, wow, I tried to snuff her out before she was born because I was hot for Elvis' ex.    Wow, a little rewording and we'd have a hell of a Fathers Day Card.  "To my Dad, who .............."  

He is as disingenuous as the rest.


ETA:  BTW, what kind of a pig is still having unprotected sex with his wife, if he loves, sleeps with and plans to marry another woman?  Ewww.  i hope he took a shower at least.


----------



## guccimamma

Avril said:


> I don't recall anybody dismissing the car crash.* Nobody here has referred to that as all we are talking about is the transition* - two entirely unrelated subjects. And I hope justice is served regarding that car crash because Bruce then was completely in the wrong.



just bringing it up, wasn't very long ago...but easily forgotten considering everything else.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> But some of your comments apply to the trans community when you are bashing her too. Saying she's not a woman she's a cross dresser because she has a penis and to stop flip flopping on getting the surgery applies to a large percentage of that community including your fav Chaz Bono. If she isn't a woman because of that reason you list then neither are all the transgender people in the same boat, who don't know exactly what they are going to do with their private parts. A comment like that isn't respectful of their community. And neither are other comments you left like like Caitlyn not "acting like a transgender"....You think you are respectful and tolerant but you've showed otherwise more than once.



It's my opinion that if anyone is disrespecting the transgender community it's Bruce/Caitlyn. I feel with the recent events that are taking place, all the hoopla, publicity, reality show, modeling deals/etc. it's become a mockery.

I don't believe I've ever posted that because he still has a penis it doesn't make him a woman. Some of my comments may have been misconstrued, but one thing that I've stated, and I'll state it again just to make myself clear and that's that I think he's a fake and I don't believe his reasons are to be believed, but I digress. 
Time will tell.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> it's for me to hear so much positive attention given to her, because a couple months ago...she killed a woman due to inattentive driving.
> 
> her life had value.



Caitlyn will say it wasn't her, it was Bruce. So far neither one (B or C) has taken responsibility for any of their actions.


----------



## kcf68

Cocolo said:


> I can't think till I've had my morning work out, so, let me put this here, and we'll all do it together.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm tired of hearing about poor Bruce.  Poor woman who died because Bruce was in the throws of having breasts put in and was distracted while he drove, pondering his/her choices.  That innocent driver has no more choices.  Caitlyn as Bruce has been so focused on his own choices, he doesn't seem to care much about others. Was Bruce too wrapped up in his inner turmoil to lend a hand in raising his kids? The first 4 see an absentee father, and the younger 2 didn't benefit from his wisdom.  Why didn't he foster a desire for an education?
> 
> And I'm tired of Caitlyn's "I've got a secret" smirk.  It wasn't a secret.  tPF posters called him out on it years ago.   Jenner is a trainwreck.  I'll feel sorry for Bruce, when Jenner shows any kind of compassion for another human.  Jenner may be getting an award, but a transgendered friend said she  is not eager to have Caitlyn Jenner as the new symbol of Transgender.  She said "Choose a humanitarian" who happens to have transgendered.  Can't argue there.  A person who wants his wife to abort a 2nd baby, because he is also sleeping with the woman he wants to marry.  Soap Opera city.  Luckily a good friend talked 1st wife out of it, and Cassie is his 2nd child.
> 
> I apologize if I offended anyone, but I was such a big Bruce Jenner fan, till I started learning about the ugly person he was inside.  And, when that fatal car crash happened, had I been the cause, 3 months later I wouldn't be coming out into the spotlight saying "Look at me Look at me".   They say his breast surgery was in March.  I'd love to see the timeline regarding the surgery and the accident.  When your life choices and self-absorption result in the loss of life or freedom for another, why the eff are you getting an award?   ​



I have to so agree with this!  I asked my trans gendered friend about this and she is embarrassed about this 3 ring circus!


----------



## littlerock

Coach Lover Too said:


> *Caitlyn will say it wasn't her, it was Bruce.* So far neither one (B or C) has taken responsibility for any of their actions.



That would be taking the blame. I doubt she will say "it was Bruce." Makes no sense. She will probably say that it wasn't her fault and other conditions caused the accident.


----------



## RueMonge

ByeKitty said:


> That workout video is killing me



I know...deliciously awful isn't it?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

littlerock said:


> That would be taking the blame. I doubt she will say "it was Bruce." Makes no sense. She will probably say that it wasn't her fault and other conditions caused the accident.



Yea, I know. I was just being openly sarcastic since I've been accused of it before.


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> By the way Linda was so beautiful, back in the day.  Her whole face and body belong to a different person now.



I've only seen one pic of younger Linda with Elvis, but to me she looks exactly as she used to, except with a few face lifts. Like how a typical Hollywood woman would age. If she was born in Elvis' time, how old is she now?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I believe the only reason Jenner is in the news front and center is because of the  connection to the Kardashian family. If he/she had never gotten  involved with them, of course the story would have made news, but after a  few weeks it would have started to dwindle down, B/C could have lived a  private life (that he hoped for) and still manage to inspire those like him/her. There is  money to be made from this and everyone wants their hand in the cookie  jar. Why wouldn't they?

If you think ESPN, MAC, Diane Sawyer,  Vanity Fair and others are promoting the story because of the  transgender community's best interest at heart then I feel for you. B/C  thinks these people are friends, when in actuality they're no better  than Kris Jenner, trying to cash in on someone else's issues., riding  the coattails all the way to the end. Bruce said in a previous interview that he was a lonely person and I think after people are through taking advantage of him/her, nothing will change.


 *All my opinion of course*


----------



## Jayne1

bisousx said:


> I've only seen one pic of younger Linda with Elvis, but to me she looks exactly as she used to, except with a few face lifts. Like how a typical Hollywood woman would age. If she was born in Elvis' time, how old is she now?


I was going by that vintage youtube exercise video posted above and remembered how pretty she was.


----------



## bag-mania

bisousx said:


> I've only seen one pic of younger Linda with Elvis, but to me she looks exactly as she used to, except with a few face lifts. Like how a typical Hollywood woman would age. If she was born in Elvis' time, how old is she now?



She is 65. Same age as Caitlyn.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I feel an episode (or three) of Fix My Life coming on.


----------



## labelwhore04

Coach Lover Too said:


> It's my opinion that if anyone is disrespecting the transgender community it's Bruce/Caitlyn. I feel with the recent events that are taking place, all the hoopla, publicity, reality show, modeling deals/etc. it's become a mockery.
> 
> I don't believe I've ever posted that because he still has a penis it doesn't make him a woman. Some of my comments may have been misconstrued, but one thing that I've stated, and I'll state it again just to make myself clear and that's that I think he's a fake and I don't believe his reasons are to be believed, but I digress.
> Time will tell.



The fact that you continously call him Bruce and "him", even though he is now Caitlyn and identifies as "her" is disrespectful in itself. You do/say things that are disrespectful and you don't even realize it.


----------



## Lounorada

BagOuttaHell said:


> Caitlyn is a famewhore just like the rest of the Kardashian/Jenners.


 
This x1000000


----------



## zippie

labelwhore04 said:


> The fact that you continously call him Bruce and "him", even though he is now Caitlyn and identifies as "her" is disrespectful in itself. You do/say things that are disrespectful and you don't even realize it.


 
Bruce is till a man


----------



## renza

zippie said:


> Bruce is till a man


I think Labelwhore was referring to the use of "he/she" constantly. It would be Bruce and he if you are talking about the past, and Caitlyn she if you are talking about now, wouldn't it? It is disrespectful to refer to her now as a "he/she."


----------



## Eva1991

I think that the best way to refer to Caitlyn now is to use the female pronouns (she, her) unless we're refererring to a very specific past event when she was still Bruce.


----------



## bag-mania

I imagine it would be particularly awkward for those who are closest, especially the kids. Do they still call her "Dad"? Maybe. Or, it's possible she will insist on being called Caitlyn. I didn't see any of the interviews, was that sort of thing discussed at all?


----------



## kcf68

Her oldest son said hopefully Caitlyn is a now a  better  parent than Bruce was or something to that effect!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

labelwhore04 said:


> The fact that you continously call him Bruce and "him", even though he is now Caitlyn and identifies as "her" is disrespectful in itself. You do/say things that are disrespectful and you don't even realize it.



There are times that I'm referring to something that was said when he was Bruce and I know without a doubt, and you just proved it, that if I don't use the name Caitlyn, someone will inevitably get their panties in a bunch, so it's just easier to use both.
Not sure why I seem to be the only one being called out here, but continue to knock yourself out.

If this is the worst thing I ever do, then I can live with myself.
Is it intentional?? Absolutely not. If I wanted to intentionally be disrespectful, trust me, you'd know.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Eva1991 said:


> I think that the best way to refer to Caitlyn now is to use the female pronouns (she, her) unless we're refererring to a very specific past event when she was still Bruce.




That's all fine and dandy but I saw someone yesterday (or maybe earlier today) refer to her as Jenner and no one seemed to have a problem with that. I'm sure someone will come along and correct me though. ....3...2..1.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

zippie said:


> Bruce is till a man



You need to share your secret with me. How it is you can post what you think and not get an *** kicking.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

renza said:


> I think Labelwhore was referring to the use of "he/she" constantly. It would be Bruce and he if you are talking about the past, and Caitlyn she if you are talking about now, wouldn't it? It is disrespectful to refer to her now as a "he/she."


 So please explain to me why it's ok to call Bruce a man, but it's not ok to refer to he//she, just to cover the bases.


----------



## prettyprincess

Coach Lover Too said:


> So please explain to me why it's ok to call Bruce a man, but it's not ok to refer to he//she, just to cover the bases.



He is still a man. His mother is still calling him Bruce and his daughter is still calling him dad.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*off topic but*
someone needs to teach
<<<<<this biotch how to multi-quote.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

prettyprincess said:


> He is still a man. His mother is still calling him Bruce and his daughter is still calling him dad.



Someone needs to tell LabelWhore that.


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> I was going by that vintage youtube exercise video posted above and remembered how pretty she was.



She gave herself a Joker's mouth


----------



## SpeedyJC

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's all fine and dandy but I saw someone yesterday (or maybe earlier today) refer to her as Jenner and no one seemed to have a problem with that. I'm sure someone will come along and correct me though. ....3...2..1.


 
I think I am just going to call her Caitlyn since she has always truly been Caitlyn plus its confusing thinking of when its ok to call her Bruce and when its ok to call her Caitlyn anyways.


----------



## Echoes

Coach Lover Too said:


> *off topic but*
> someone needs to teach
> <<<<<this biotch how to multi-quote.



http://forum.purseblog.com/feedback...multi-quote-243243.html?highlight=multi-quote


----------



## SpeedyJC

kcf68 said:


> Her oldest son said hopefully Caitlyn is a now a  better  parent than Bruce was or something to that effect!


 
But isn't Caitlyn and Bruce the same person? I mean why would she change how she is as a parent? Maybe she will be happier now that she is finally living as a woman and therefore be able to handle life better?


----------



## Echoes

SpeedyJC said:


> I think I am just going to ...



While we're OT, have you heard any of Blondie's new releases?

You can switch over to the music board and start a thread if you want.


----------



## littlerock

kcf68 said:


> Her oldest son said hopefully Caitlyn is a now a  better  parent than Bruce was or something to that effect!



Do you know where you saw this?


ETA: I found it!


----------



## ByeKitty

SpeedyJC said:


> I think I am just going to call her Caitlyn since she has always truly been Caitlyn plus its confusing thinking of when its ok to call her Bruce and when its ok to call her Caitlyn anyways.


I'll still say Bruce sometimes because she just transitioned recently, or actually she's still in transition... I mean it's hard to make that switch overnight.


----------



## SpeedyJC

ByeKitty said:


> I'll still say Bruce sometimes because she just transitioned recently, or actually she's still in transition... I mean it's hard to make that switch overnight.


 
Oh yeah you don't know how many times I have typed Bruce and then had to go back and type Caitlyn.


----------



## kcf68

littlerock said:


> Do you know where you saw this?
> 
> 
> ETA: I found it!


I read it on Yahoo with his oldest son from his first marriage!  I can not remember if it was Yahoo or MSN. It was quoted as if he actually said it!.


----------



## littlerock

kcf68 said:


> I read it on Yahoo with his oldest son from his first marriage!  I can not remember if it was Yahoo or MSN. It was quoted as if he actually said it!.



I found it on perez. The quote was that he hoped Caitlyn was a better person than Bruce. Not Parent. It caught me off guard because I know first hand that they have a close relationship these days, and in the last handful of years +. So they've mended their relationship PRE Caitlyn. He is very critical of Bruce's parenting as a child though.


----------



## kcf68

littlerock said:


> I found it on perez. The quote was that he hoped Caitlyn was a better person than Bruce. Not Parent. It caught me off guard because I know first hand that they have a close relationship these days, and in the last handful of years +. So they've mended their relationship PRE Caitlyn. He is very critical of Bruce's parenting as a child though.


I don't read Perez but I thought that is what he said in the Yahoo quote still what does that mean ?  Caitlyn is a better person than Bruce????


----------



## SpeedyJC

Echoes said:


> While we're OT, have you heard any of Blondie's new releases?
> 
> You can switch over to the music board and start a thread if you want.


 
I am actually an old school Blondie fan, I stick to the albums from the 70's for the most part. Not too into the newer stuff and I was lost with The Curse of Blondie.


----------



## littlerock

kcf68 said:


> I don't read Perez but I thought that is what he said in the Yahoo quote still what does that mean ?  Caitlyn is a better person than Bruce????



I'm with you.. person/ parent go hand in hand obviously. But I think what he is really referring to is the whole K klan mess. His older children are not down with all those shennanigans and just overall way of life.


----------



## labelwhore04

zippie said:


> Bruce is till a man



No, she identifies as a woman now. She may never get a sex change operation and that doesn't mean people should still call her "him" and "Bruce" for the rest of her life. She's clearly decided what she wants to be referred to as and people should respect that. I know it's easy to say "him or Bruce" as habit, it's definitely gonna take some getting used to, but some people are deliberately ignoring the fact that she identifies as a woman now.


----------



## kcf68

littlerock said:


> I'm with you.. person/ parent go hand in hand obviously. But I think what he is really referring to is the whole K klan mess. His older children are not down with all those shennanigans and just overall way of life.


I think well from my personal experience you can forgive but never FORGET how you were treated by a parent!


----------



## Coco Belle

prettyprincess said:


> He is still a man. His mother is still calling him Bruce and his daughter is still calling him dad.


 
This is a strange post. You seem to be saying that the world at large ought to call a person by the name that their mother calls them. And that because a child calls her parent by a name that is associated with a particular gender, the world at large ought to enforce that gender using a male name and male pronouns too. 

Is that a correct interpretation of your view?

See, I just think that it is extremely disrespectful and dismissive to call a person by a name that they don't use to introduce themselves. Just bad manners. 

Caitlyn has said, in a very open an public way via a magazine cover, "Call me Caitlyn", and so that is what I call her. My mother can call me whatever I want, my son can call me whatever he wants, but I am myself, I have given my name, and my gender is quite plain to anyone who is reading the signals. So why insist otherwise?


----------



## Bentley1

This thread has become so exhausting to participate in. So much snark and negativity at every turn, over every little thing. 
Frankly, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that Bruce is now Caitlyn. 
Aside from that, I'm disgusted with the way she chose to "come out." Really? 
The only way it could have been any more distasteful, to me, is if she had bared all in Playboy as opposed to the lingerie she was wearing on VF. Tacky, thirsty, attention seeking, fameho. No different than the rest of the women in the family. 
I respect Bruce's journey and transition to Caitlyn, but this person has turned out to be an exceedingly selfish, unaware human being. Respecting Bruce's choice does not equate To blowing sunshine up Caitlyn's a@@ at every turn just to show support for her transition. I respect the choice, but I don't respect the person.


----------



## pinkkitten74

I am wondering if there was no reality show and he? Lived a non public life would he? Of did this change?  Will he? Continue his motivational talks and now advocate for those who cant speak? He was an olympian and i repect that but if he ? Is in it for the kardashisn media feeding frenzy  " please call me caitlyn with a c not a k" then no f him? The transgenger community doesnt need that crap


----------



## pinkkitten74

Sorry about the miss spellings as i am typing quickly on my iphone


----------



## Lounorada

Bentley1 said:


> This thread has become so exhausting to participate in. So much snark and negativity at every turn, over every little thing.
> Frankly, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that Bruce is now Caitlyn.
> Aside from that, I'm disgusted with the way she chose to "come out." Really?
> The only way it could have been any more distasteful, to me, is if she had bared all in Playboy as opposed to the lingerie she was wearing on VF. Tacky, thirsty, attention seeking, fameho. No different than the rest of the women in the family.
> I respect Bruce's journey and transition to Caitlyn, but this person has turned out to be an exceedingly selfish, unaware human being. Respecting Bruce's choice does not equate To blowing sunshine up Caitlyn's a@@ at every turn just to show support for her transition. I respect the choice, but I don't respect the person.




All of this.


----------



## prettyprincess

Coco Belle said:


> This is a strange post. You seem to be saying that the world at large ought to call a person by the name that their mother calls them. And that because a child calls her parent by a name that is associated with a particular gender, the world at large ought to enforce that gender using a male name and male pronouns too.
> 
> Is that a correct interpretation of your view?
> 
> See, I just think that it is extremely disrespectful and dismissive to call a person by a name that they don't use to introduce themselves. Just bad manners.
> 
> Caitlyn has said, in a very open an public way via a magazine cover, "Call me Caitlyn", and so that is what I call her. My mother can call me whatever I want, my son can call me whatever he wants, but I am myself, I have given my name, and my gender is quite plain to anyone who is reading the signals. So why insist otherwise?



Sure, I understand your position. I was responding to a post that said he's still a man, which he is. I'm not insisting that anyone do anything, people can call him whatever they want. I'm still trying to understand this illness.


----------



## krissa

I wonder why she waited until Vanity Fair was released until allowing herself to be called Caitlyn. If she always felt like a woman, why go on Diane Sawyer and have people still refer to herself as Bruce and he/him as if she was anymore of a woman just bc she was presenting as such.


----------



## Eva1991

prettyprincess said:


> Sure, I understand your position. I was responding to a post that said* he's still a man, which he is.* I'm not insisting that anyone do anything, people can call him whatever they want. I'm still trying to understand this illness.



Why is he still a man?


----------



## Jayne1

krissa said:


> I wonder why she waited until Vanity Fair was released until allowing herself to be called Caitlyn. If she always felt like a woman, why go on Diane Sawyer and have people still refer to herself as Bruce and he/him as if she was anymore of a woman just bc she was presenting as such.



She wanted the big reveal.


----------



## prettyprincess

Eva1991 said:


> Why is he still a man?



How is he not still a man? other than the boob job and dressing like a female.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Good to see the IOC have upheld Bruce's right to his gold medal and ignore that ridiculous Change.org petition.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/04/int...emanding_caitlyn_jenner_give_back_gold_medal/


----------



## Echoes

Bentley1 said:


> This thread has become so exhausting to participate in. So much snark and negativity at every turn, over every little thing.



tPF in general is going that way and it's really pissing me the EFF off.


----------



## ByeKitty

prettyprincess said:


> How is he not still a man? other than the boob job and dressing like a female.



Hasn't she been taking estrogen for a long time? Not sure about the legal part...


----------



## Oryx816

Bentley1 said:


> This thread has become so exhausting to participate in. So much snark and negativity at every turn, over every little thing.
> Frankly, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that Bruce is now Caitlyn.
> Aside from that, I'm disgusted with the way she chose to "come out." Really?
> The only way it could have been any more distasteful, to me, is if she had bared all in Playboy as opposed to the lingerie she was wearing on VF. Tacky, thirsty, attention seeking, fameho. No different than the rest of the women in the family.
> I respect Bruce's journey and transition to Caitlyn, but this person has turned out to be an exceedingly selfish, unaware human being. Respecting Bruce's choice does not equate To blowing sunshine up Caitlyn's a@@ at every turn just to show support for her transition. I respect the choice, but I don't respect the person.




All of this!  

Also, as a side note, I find it interesting that several people who are schooling Coach Lover on sensitivity and terminology have used the term "transgendered" in their posts.  That is a term frowned upon by the transgender community.  

This is a complex issue and there is room for everyone to learn more, or not, if they so choose.   

I don't think Caitlyn is just an awful parent, she seems to be a despicable human being, cheating, lying, asking someone to have an abortion to further her selfish needs, etc..  I don't have an issue with her journey, as everyone should be able to live their lives on their own terms, but when it is done at the expense of the well being of so many others, then I find the behavior reprehensible beyond measure whether they are transgender or not.


----------



## Echoes

How about 'The Famewhore Formerly Known As Bruce'?


----------



## schadenfreude

Bentley1 said:


> Aside from that, I'm disgusted with the way she chose to "come out." Really?
> The only way it could have been any more distasteful, to me, is if she had bared all in Playboy as opposed to the lingerie she was wearing on VF. Tacky, thirsty, attention seeking, fameho. No different than the rest of the women in the family.
> I respect Bruce's journey and transition to Caitlyn, but this person has turned out to be an exceedingly selfish, unaware human being. Respecting Bruce's choice does not equate To blowing sunshine up Caitlyn's a@@ at every turn just to show support for her transition. I respect the choice, but I don't respect the person.



This. And bonus points for using one of my favorite phrases of all time. 



Cocolo said:


> I can't think till I've had my morning work out, so, let me put this here, and we'll all do it together.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I'm tired of hearing about poor Bruce.  Poor woman who died because Bruce was in the throws of having breasts put in and was distracted while he drove, pondering his/her choices.  That innocent driver has no more choices.  Caitlyn as Bruce has been so focused on his own choices, he doesn't seem to care much about others. Was Bruce too wrapped up in his inner turmoil to lend a hand in raising his kids? The first 4 see an absentee father, and the younger 2 didn't benefit from his wisdom.  Why didn't he foster a desire for an education?
> 
> And I'm tired of Caitlyn's "I've got a secret" smirk.  It wasn't a secret.  tPF posters called him out on it years ago.   Jenner is a trainwreck.  I'll feel sorry for Bruce, when Jenner shows any kind of compassion for another human.  Jenner may be getting an award, but a transgendered friend said she  is not eager to have Caitlyn Jenner as the new symbol of Transgender.  She said "Choose a humanitarian" who happens to have transgendered.  Can't argue there.  A person who wants his wife to abort a 2nd baby, because he is also sleeping with the woman he wants to marry.  Soap Opera city.  Luckily a good friend talked 1st wife out of it, and Cassie is his 2nd child.
> 
> I apologize if I offended anyone, but I was such a big Bruce Jenner fan, till I started learning about the ugly person he was inside.  And, when that fatal car crash happened, had I been the cause, 3 months later I wouldn't be coming out into the spotlight saying "Look at me Look at me".   They say his breast surgery was in March.  I'd love to see the timeline regarding the surgery and the accident.  When your life choices and self-absorption result in the loss of life or freedom for another, why the eff are you getting an award?   ​




Oh, and definitely this.



labelwhore04 said:


> The fact that you continously call him Bruce and "him", even though he is now Caitlyn and identifies as "her" is disrespectful in itself. You do/say things that are disrespectful and you don't even realize it.



But, last, this is ridiculous. Do you not realize how many people had zero knowledge of what "transgender" even meant two weeks ago? Do you really expect those same people to already understand and know the lingo and etiquette? Why is society expected to have endless respect, tolerance, and compassion for small minority groups such as the transgendered, but that understanding isn't extended both ways? Perhaps someone whose life lacked the riches of education and experience to give him or her the understanding and kindness you expect is someone who should be pitied, not shamed.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Bruce did the workout videos with Linda before he did them with Kris? I thought that was Kris's idea.

I'm having a hard time getting used to referring to Caitlyn with female pronouns and the name especially when I'm talking about the Bruce in the past.


----------



## pinkkitten74

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Good to see the IOC have upheld Bruce's right to his gold medal and ignore that ridiculous Change.org petition.
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2015/06/04/int...emanding_caitlyn_jenner_give_back_gold_medal/




Wow. He should keep his gold medal. I am amazed in a sad way that such a petition would happen


----------



## littlerock

pinkkitten74 said:


> Wow. He should keep his gold medal. I am amazed in a sad way that such a petition would happen



If you read the actual language used in that petition it's clear that it is not to be taken seriously. A jokster is behind it.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

littlerock said:


> If you read the actual language used in that petition it's clear that it is not to be taken seriously. A jokster is behind it.



True. More disturbing was the fact that even though they were clearly taking the mickey, that it got around 12,000 signatures.


----------



## Lounorada

oryx816 said:


> also, as a side note, i find it interesting that several people who are schooling coach lover on sensitivity and terminology have used the term "transgendered" in their posts.  That is a term frowned upon by the transgender community.
> 
> This is a complex issue and there is room for everyone to learn more, or not, if they so choose.
> 
> I don't think caitlyn is just an awful parent, she seems to be a despicable human being, cheating, lying, asking someone to have an abortion to further her selfish needs, etc..  I don't have an issue with her journey, as everyone should be able to live their lives on their own terms, but when it is done at the expense of the well being of so many others, then i find the behavior reprehensible beyond measure whether they are transgender or not.



+1


----------



## Lounorada

schadenfreude said:


> But, last, this is ridiculous. Do you not realize how many people had zero knowledge of what "transgender" even meant two weeks ago? Do you really expect those same people to already understand and know the lingo and etiquette? Why is society expected to have endless respect, tolerance, and compassion for small minority groups such as the transgendered, but that understanding isn't extended both ways? Perhaps someone whose life lacked the riches of education and experience to give him or her the understanding and kindness you expect is someone who should be pitied, not shamed.



Well said, Schadenfreude.


----------



## blackkitty4378

littlerock said:


> If you read the actual language used in that petition it's clear that it is not to be taken seriously. A jokster is behind it.



I read the petition and I don't see how it's not to be taken seriously. That could be true, but there's actually people who think that way. And if it were meant to be satire, why not post it on something like The Onion, instead of starting a petition? Am I missing something?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Echoes said:


> http://forum.purseblog.com/feedback...multi-quote-243243.html?highlight=multi-quote




Thank you!


----------



## prettyprincess

ByeKitty said:


> Hasn't she been taking estrogen for a long time? Not sure about the legal part...



is estrogen the qualifying factor? bc a few posts back someone said that testosterone and estrogen aren't determining factors in gender. so I guess my question is if body parts, genetics, chromosomes, and reproductive organs don't determine gender, how is he now being qualified as a she?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

prettyprincess said:


> is estrogen the qualifying factor? bc a few posts back someone said that testosterone and estrogen aren't determining factors in gender. so I guess my question is if body parts, genetics, chromosomes, and reproductive organs don't determine gender, how is he now being qualified as a she?



That's a fair question. Gender and sex identity can be varied.

For anyone who is interested ( I learned a lot here too) here is a link with a lot of information about genderqueer (_terminology on the webiste, not mine, it's an umbrella term_) and non-binary gender identity.

http://genderqueerid.com/gq-faq


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> This thread has become so exhausting to participate in. So much snark and negativity at every turn, over every little thing.
> Frankly, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that Bruce is now Caitlyn.
> Aside from that, I'm disgusted with the way she chose to "come out." Really?
> The only way it could have been any more distasteful, to me, is if she had bared all in Playboy as opposed to the lingerie she was wearing on VF. Tacky, thirsty, attention seeking, fameho. No different than the rest of the women in the family.
> I respect Bruce's journey and transition to Caitlyn, but this person has turned out to be an exceedingly selfish, unaware human being. Respecting Bruce's choice does not equate To blowing sunshine up Caitlyn's a@@ at every turn just to show support for her transition. I respect the choice, but I don't respect the person.



+1 Well said.


----------



## Swanky

*Tom Cruise's son Connor slams Caitlyn Jenner for receiving Courage prize... saying there are 'people that actually deserve' the award*



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...g-people-actually-deserve-award.html#comments
Tom Cruise's son Connor is not happy about the fact that Caitlyn Jenner is receiving the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPY Awards.
According to E!, the 20-year-old tweeted - and then quickly deleted - a rant against the star being honoured with the prize.
'Really?? Winning the AA award for courage?? Ashton is gonna come out and yell PUNK'D,' Connor tweeted on Wednesday.











 

 Connor Cruise went on a Twitter rant against Caitlyn Jenner on Wednesday

'Don't get me wrong. Do what you feel like doing and don't let anyone stop you. But everyone is taking this way too seriously.
'There are so many more important things that should be talked about&#8230;And SO MANY MORE IMPORTANT PEOPLE that actually deserve an award.'

Connor then went on to tell his 4,000 plus followers that he thinks there should be less attention on Caitlyn's transition, and more on different issues.
'I'm totally supportive of people staying true to themselves and finding true happiness in whatever way they can,' he wrote. 'There are just way more things that we as a nation and as a planet should be talking about and working on.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3110327/Tom-Cruise-s-son-Connor-slams-Caitlyn-Jenner-receiving-Courage-prize-saying-people-actually-deserve-award.html#ixzz3c97IHIy9


----------



## tweegy

The choice of pic for Caitlyn lol

Remember when Connor was a lil kid that looked so quiet??? ...


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> *Tom Cruise's son Connor slams Caitlyn Jenner for receiving Courage prize... saying there are 'people that actually deserve' the award*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...g-people-actually-deserve-award.html#comments
> Tom Cruise's son Connor is not happy about the fact that Caitlyn Jenner is receiving the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPY Awards.
> According to E!, the 20-year-old tweeted - and then quickly deleted - a rant against the star being honoured with the prize.
> 'Really?? Winning the AA award for courage?? Ashton is gonna come out and yell PUNK'D,' Connor tweeted on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/04/02/295543BF00000578-3110327-Not_a_fan_Connor_Cruise_went_on_a_Twitter_rant_against_Caitlyn_J-a-1_1433381051800.jpgi.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/04/02/2956B16700000578-3110327-Not_a_fan_Connor_Cruise_went_on_a_Twitter_rant_against_Caitlyn_J-a-3_1433381051842.jpg
> 
> Connor Cruise went on a Twitter rant against Caitlyn Jenner on Wednesday
> 
> 'Don't get me wrong. Do what you feel like doing and don't let anyone stop you. But everyone is taking this way too seriously.
> 'There are so many more important things that should be talked about&#8230;And SO MANY MORE IMPORTANT PEOPLE that actually deserve an award.'
> 
> Connor then went on to tell his 4,000 plus followers that he thinks there should be less attention on Caitlyn's transition, and more on different issues.
> 'I'm totally supportive of people staying true to themselves and finding true happiness in whatever way they can,' he wrote. 'There are just way more things that we as a nation and as a planet should be talking about and working on.'
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3110327/Tom-Cruise-s-son-Connor-slams-Caitlyn-Jenner-receiving-Courage-prize-saying-people-actually-deserve-award.html#ixzz3c97IHIy9



I understand people have varying views on this, and I'm still a bit hazy as to why Caitlyn is getting the Arthur Ashe award - that will be relevant when I see Caitlyn at shelters for LGBQT kids/people or some other work that will help the community she is now a part of.

BUT, I cannot take on board the views of a Scientologist - a group of people who are known to humiliate homosexuals/people of different sexuality, believe it can be "cured", and often use it to suppress people.


----------



## ByeKitty

prettyprincess said:


> is estrogen the qualifying factor? bc a few posts back someone said that testosterone and estrogen aren't determining factors in gender. so I guess my question is if body parts, genetics, chromosomes, and reproductive organs don't determine gender, how is he now being qualified as a she?



Good question! Yeah, it's not black and white, I would say "he" can be referred to as a "she" as soon as she officially identifies herself as female.


----------



## ByeKitty

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I understand people have varying views on this, and I'm still a bit hazy as to why Caitlyn is getting the Arthur Ashe award - that will be relevant when I see Caitlyn at shelters for LGBQT kids/people or some other work that will help the community she is now a part of.
> 
> BUT, I cannot take on board the views of a Scientologist - a group of people who are known to humiliate homosexuals/people of different sexuality, believe it can be "cured", and often use it to suppress people.



Yeah I can't see why that's news... First of all, he's quite young. Second, he's Tom Cruise's son, in other words a scientologist - not exactly the most tolerant bunch.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Who is blowing sunshine up her @ss though? I don't see those comments. Just like I never seen anyone call her their hero here. Comments that people (including myself) have had issues with don't just apply to Caitlyn but to the entire transgender community

Fyi Just because someone isn't constantly taking a dump on Caitlyn every single time they comment doesn't mean they are a part of their fan club or like her at all.


----------



## ByeKitty

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Who is blowing sunshine up her @ss though? I don't see those comments. Just like I never seen anyone call her their hero here. Comments that people (including myself) have had issues with don't just apply to Caitlyn but to the entire transgender community
> 
> Fyi Just because someone isn't constantly taking a dump on Caitlyn every single time they comment doesn't mean they are a part of their fan club or like her at all.



Yeah, I actually frequently roll my eyes hard at Mrs Jenner. Just sharing my thoughts here and giving counter arguments to posts I don't agree with.


----------



## blackkitty4378

It's because I think Caitlyn is one of the first, if not the first, Olympic athlete or professional athlete in general to come out as transgender. At least in the US.

I forget who it was, but there was recently a man in the NFL to come out as gay a couple years ago, and that was a big deal because he was the first openly gay NFL player.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

blackkitty4378 said:


> It's because I think Caitlyn is one of the first, if not the first, Olympic athlete or professional athlete in general to come out as transgender. At least in the US.
> 
> I forget who it was, but there was recently a man in the NFL to come out as gay a couple years ago, and that was a big deal because he was the first openly gay NFL player.



Renee Richards was the first reasonably big name in sport, in the 70's. She is American.


----------



## Encore Hermes

blackkitty4378 said:


> It's because I think Caitlyn is one of the first, if not the first, Olympic athlete or* professional athlete in general to come out as transgender*. At least in the US.
> 
> I forget who it was, but there was recently a man in the NFL to come out as gay a couple years ago, and that was a big deal because he was the first openly gay NFL player.



No, Renee Richards






But ESPN's decision to honor Jenner with the Arthur Ashe Courage Award during that network's contrived ESPYs show next month amounts to a crass grab for ratings. Indeed, how is it that the Worldwide Leader, so suddenly taken with Caitlyn Jenner, has forgotten that Renee Richards &#8212; now 80 and a transgender pioneer back in 1975 &#8212; has been available to it for all this time?

You should do yourself a favor and watch ESPN's own "30 for 30" documentary, a rather splendid piece of work premiered in October of 2011, on Richards. Take in all of the rejection and mockery and humiliation suffered by Renee &#8212; in her personal life and in her dual professional one as both an ophthalmologist and professional tennis player &#8212; and then we can better talk about courage as it relates to Caitlyn.

http://www.syracuse.com/poliquin/in...ured_soul_but_she_never_was_renee_richar.html


----------



## blackkitty4378

My mistake. At least Caitlyn is one of the first? Not sure about Renee Richards because that was before my time and I haven't read much of her story, but I hope she received recognition because I imagine the 1970s in America was a MUCH harder time to be transgender.

I'd like to be optimistic and think this isn't just a ploy for ratings. I still think what Caitlyn did was courageous. Think about how she was thought of as such an American "hero" and the epitome of masculinity at the time. That whole image must have been hard to let go of and say "This is who I really was."


----------



## ByeKitty

Didn't Renée Richards transition before entering the public eye? Not to dimish her story obviously, but in that case she wasn't a famous male coming out as a woman!


----------



## bisousx

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I understand people have varying views on this, and I'm still a bit hazy as to why Caitlyn is getting the Arthur Ashe award - that will be relevant when I see Caitlyn at shelters for LGBQT kids/people or some other work that will help the community she is now a part of.
> 
> BUT, I cannot take on board the views of a Scientologist - a group of people who are known to humiliate homosexuals/people of different sexuality, believe it can be "cured", and often use it to suppress people.



Jenner was chosen because she'd bring the most publicity to the awards. Personally, I think there are more appropriate winners than her, but I suppose my background in marketing can understand why she was picked. I think most of us would've never heard of this award until her name was attached to it.


----------



## Swanky

I do think it's brave to do what she's doing so publicly, but I don't think it was the right award for her.  A lot of people have talked about how Lauren HIll deserved it.
It's in a lot of news and private conversations actually.  This was the first hit when I googled it:

*Doc to ESPYs: Lauren Hill's courage trumps Cait Jenner's
*




You'd hate to think that ESPN's decision to honor the newly minted Caitlyn Jenner with the ESPY's Arthur Ashe Courage Award was anything other than altruistic. Bruce becoming Caitlyn was a courageous act that will benefit all who face similar circumstances.

The fact that Jenner was instantly recognizable before her announcement last month didn't have anything to do with the sports network's decision to honor her, did it? Did it?

Jenner is tabloid manna. Jenner is ratings gold. People who never before watched the ESPYs  people who didn't know the ESPYs from ESP  now will tune in to perform the TV version of rubbernecking. On Wednesday, E! Entertainment released the first promo video for Caitlyn's upcoming reality show, "I Am Cait''.

A reality show, for Caitlyn Jenner? Ya don't say.

Meantime, Lauren Hill was a real-life reality show that E! Entertainment wouldn't have touched. There was nothing to Lauren worth gawking at. She wasn't a Kardashian, she didn't faux-survive in a bikini on a tropical island. She was not, thank god, a housewife of Beverly Hills. Reality television is to reality what botox is to real faces.

Lauren Hill was just a kid who died. She was just an earth angel, whose poise and selflessness provided everyone in America with a road map to grace. We didn't see her "applying make-up to her face'' as we will Caitlyn, according to a story on the website BusinessInsider.com.

We didn't see Lauren putting on lipstick and saying, "You start learning the pressure women are under all the time about their appearance," as Caitlyn says. We heard Lauren saying after a basketball game, "Today has been the best day I've ever had.''

A month or so before she died, Lauren said this:

"I ask God for a cure for cancer and that my family will be fine when and if I'm gone. They are who I worry about. My family and my friends.''

Enquirer columnist Paul Daugherty reflects on Lauren Hill's short, but impactful life. The Mount Saint Joseph freshman inspired thousands across the world. She saw the end of her life as the beginning of something bigger. The Enquirer/Carrie Cochran

Quite possibly, that is more courageous than wondering if the black hose will go with the red dress. Caitlyn Jenner is courage personified. But not without a little bit of Hollywood narcissism.

Look, it's not that I don't admire the former Bruce Jenner. It isn't that I don't feel compassion for the new Caitlyn. All the best. What you've done has taken more guts than winning a decathlon, or appearing on TV with any number of self-absorbed, brain cell-starved Kardashians.

It's going to be a tough trail to blaze. Good luck.

Is it more courageous than what Lauren Hill did?

Let me be the first to answer that:

Not in a million lifetimes.

Ask yourself this: Would you rather know you were living a false life? Or that you'd be dead in a few months? Who gets the better end of that deal?

Jenner is free to change the world, perhaps for decades. Lauren had about a year and a half, from when she was first diagnosed.

Jenner has lived a full life: Olympic hero, endorsing machine, sex symbol, TV celebrity, Wheaties man. Lauren lived less than 20 years.

Lauren did what she did entirely without guile. She didn't seek a stage, except when she knew the stage would help others. She was just Lauren Hill from Lawrenceburg, IN, who loved her family and basketball and who suffered terrible physical pain in the hope that, someday, other kids wouldn't have to.

Bruce-turned-Caitlyn has lived a life of emotional pain, possibly made worse by Bruce's celebrity status. As ESPN's release notes, "(Caitlyn) has shown the courage to embrace a truth that had been hidden for years, and to embark on a journey that may not only give comfort to those facing similar circumstances, but can also help to educate people on the challenges that the transgender community faces."

And yet, Caitlyn made her announcement on national TV, in prime time. She will have a reality show  eight, one-hour segments  that will attract as many peepers as those legitimately concerned. Put it this way: TMZ wasn't interested in Lauren Hill.

Some of us see rare courage and heroism as something other than appearing on national television applying makeup. The attention paid would have made Lauren Hill blush.

Is this politically impolite? Maybe. It's certainly PC for ESPN to jump on the CaitlynWagon and cheer. It's certainly easier to honor someone the world recognizes. It's no leap of ratings faith to declare Caitlyn Jenner more worthy of a courage trophy than Lauren Hill.

That doesn't make it right. Not at all.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...rage-award-should-go-to-lauren-hill/28428797/


----------



## bag-mania

ByeKitty said:


> Didn't Renée Richards transition before entering the public eye? Not to dimish her story obviously, but in that case she wasn't a famous male coming out as a woman!




That's true. And I believe there was controversy at the time since she was an okay player as a male but was an excellent player as a female. Some thought it was unfair since she probably had a physical advantage in strength over her competitors who were born women.


----------



## littlerock

blackkitty4378 said:


> I read the petition and I don't see how it's not to be taken seriously. That could be true, but there's actually people who think that way. And if it were meant to be satire, why not post it on something like The Onion, instead of starting a petition? Am I missing something?



All I had to do was read this..



> "*It is only fair to all involved that women receive their credit as champions of the Decathalon and that the men racing Ms. Jenner are not expected to compete with a superior, streamlined being such as herself. *"


----------



## blackkitty4378

Caitlyn might not be the first transgender athlete, but I think it's good that someone who's coming out as transgender is getting recognition for it, regardless of if it's Caitlyn or if someone who had cancer or someone who lost limbs fighting a war was nominated.

You can make that argument about anything, really. "This person worked harder than you. This person has it worse than you. This person deserves this more than you." There's always going to be someone that's more deserving than the person before them.

I'm not trying to minimize having cancer or being an amputee, but with the way some people are talking, it's coming off almost as if they think transitioning is a walk in the park, and Caitlyn's journey isn't a "real" problem, only things like cancer/being an amputee are, and I disagree with that. Sure, Caitlyn is privileged, but I don't think that all of her fame-whoring outweighs the good that this is doing for the transgender community.


----------



## Sarni

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I do think it's brave to do what she's doing so publicly, but I don't think it was the right award for her.  A lot of people have talked about how Lauren HIll deserved it.
> 
> It's in a lot of news and private conversations actually.  This was the first hit when I googled it:
> 
> 
> 
> *Doc to ESPYs: Lauren Hill's courage trumps Cait Jenner's
> 
> *
> 
> gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/b4ce610adc9c107b7c2284a3816676ffe63ffa2f/c=631-0-5738-3840&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/04/10/Cincinnati/Cincinnati/635642442021435997-lauren-hill-at-home06.JPG
> 
> You'd hate to think that ESPN's decision to honor the newly minted Caitlyn Jenner with the ESPY's Arthur Ashe Courage Award was anything other than altruistic. Bruce becoming Caitlyn was a courageous act that will benefit all who face similar circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that Jenner was instantly recognizable before her announcement last month didn't have anything to do with the sports network's decision to honor her, did it? Did it?
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner is tabloid manna. Jenner is ratings gold. People who never before watched the ESPYs  people who didn't know the ESPYs from ESP  now will tune in to perform the TV version of rubbernecking. On Wednesday, E! Entertainment released the first promo video for Caitlyn's upcoming reality show, "I Am Cait''.
> 
> 
> 
> A reality show, for Caitlyn Jenner? Ya don't say.
> 
> 
> 
> Meantime, Lauren Hill was a real-life reality show that E! Entertainment wouldn't have touched. There was nothing to Lauren worth gawking at. She wasn't a Kardashian, she didn't faux-survive in a bikini on a tropical island. She was not, thank god, a housewife of Beverly Hills. Reality television is to reality what botox is to real faces.
> 
> 
> 
> Lauren Hill was just a kid who died. She was just an earth angel, whose poise and selflessness provided everyone in America with a road map to grace. We didn't see her "applying make-up to her face'' as we will Caitlyn, according to a story on the website BusinessInsider.com.
> 
> 
> 
> We didn't see Lauren putting on lipstick and saying, "You start learning the pressure women are under all the time about their appearance," as Caitlyn says. We heard Lauren saying after a basketball game, "Today has been the best day I've ever had.''
> 
> 
> 
> A month or so before she died, Lauren said this:
> 
> 
> 
> "I ask God for a cure for cancer and that my family will be fine when and if I'm gone. They are who I worry about. My family and my friends.''
> 
> 
> 
> Enquirer columnist Paul Daugherty reflects on Lauren Hill's short, but impactful life. The Mount Saint Joseph freshman inspired thousands across the world. She saw the end of her life as the beginning of something bigger. The Enquirer/Carrie Cochran
> 
> 
> 
> Quite possibly, that is more courageous than wondering if the black hose will go with the red dress. Caitlyn Jenner is courage personified. But not without a little bit of Hollywood narcissism.
> 
> 
> 
> Look, it's not that I don't admire the former Bruce Jenner. It isn't that I don't feel compassion for the new Caitlyn. All the best. What you've done has taken more guts than winning a decathlon, or appearing on TV with any number of self-absorbed, brain cell-starved Kardashians.
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be a tough trail to blaze. Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it more courageous than what Lauren Hill did?
> 
> 
> 
> Let me be the first to answer that:
> 
> 
> 
> Not in a million lifetimes.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself this: Would you rather know you were living a false life? Or that you'd be dead in a few months? Who gets the better end of that deal?
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner is free to change the world, perhaps for decades. Lauren had about a year and a half, from when she was first diagnosed.
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner has lived a full life: Olympic hero, endorsing machine, sex symbol, TV celebrity, Wheaties man. Lauren lived less than 20 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Lauren did what she did entirely without guile. She didn't seek a stage, except when she knew the stage would help others. She was just Lauren Hill from Lawrenceburg, IN, who loved her family and basketball and who suffered terrible physical pain in the hope that, someday, other kids wouldn't have to.
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce-turned-Caitlyn has lived a life of emotional pain, possibly made worse by Bruce's celebrity status. As ESPN's release notes, "(Caitlyn) has shown the courage to embrace a truth that had been hidden for years, and to embark on a journey that may not only give comfort to those facing similar circumstances, but can also help to educate people on the challenges that the transgender community faces."
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, Caitlyn made her announcement on national TV, in prime time. She will have a reality show  eight, one-hour segments  that will attract as many peepers as those legitimately concerned. Put it this way: TMZ wasn't interested in Lauren Hill.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of us see rare courage and heroism as something other than appearing on national television applying makeup. The attention paid would have made Lauren Hill blush.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this politically impolite? Maybe. It's certainly PC for ESPN to jump on the CaitlynWagon and cheer. It's certainly easier to honor someone the world recognizes. It's no leap of ratings faith to declare Caitlyn Jenner more worthy of a courage trophy than Lauren Hill.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't make it right. Not at all.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...rage-award-should-go-to-lauren-hill/28428797/




Totally agree. Caitlyn Jenner does not deserve this award yet...maybe next year or the year after that, maybe never. It is purely a way to boost ratings.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

blackkitty4378 said:


> Caitlyn might not be the first transgender athlete, but I think it's good that someone who's coming out as transgender is getting recognition for it, regardless of if it's Caitlyn or if someone who had cancer or someone who lost limbs fighting a war was nominated.
> 
> You can make that argument about anything, really. "This person worked harder than you. This person has it worse than you. This person deserves this more than you." There's always going to be someone that's more deserving than the person before them.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimize having cancer or being an amputee, but with the way some people are talking, it's coming off almost as if they think transitioning is a walk in the park, and Caitlyn's journey isn't a "real" problem, only things like cancer/being an amputee are, and I disagree with that. Sure, Caitlyn is privileged, but I don't think that all of her fame-whoring outweighs the good that this is doing for the transgender community.



I don' think that's necessarily true, BlackKitty. There are some (like me for example) who don't particularly like Caitlyn or the K's, but who are respectful of the big step making such a transition is and yet STILL can be critical of the Arthur Ashe award.

What Caitlyn did is give exposure and a great starting point for the conversation by debuting Caitlyn in such a public manner.  It's someone who people like her can say, look there's somewhere in the media spotlight who struggled with what I did/am doing for all these years.

On the other hand, I don't really believe that being on a magazine cover alone, or an interview alone is enough for these type of awards.

Caitlyn has a perfect opportunity now to get out and talk with others going through what she is, to donate her time and really get some information out there.

If/when she does that, I'll believe that award should be given.

It reminds me of when ***** was given the Nobel Peace Prize - even _he_ was confused about it   I just think it's too soon.


----------



## Oryx816

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I don' think that's necessarily true, BlackKitty. There are some (like me for example) who don't particularly like Caitlyn or the K's, but who are respectful of the big step making such a transition is and yet STILL can be critical of the Arthur Ashe award.
> 
> What Caitlyn did is give exposure and a great starting point for the conversation by debuting Caitlyn in such a public manner.  It's someone who people like her can say, look there's somewhere in the media spotlight who struggled with what I did/am doing for all these years.
> 
> On the other hand, I don't really believe that being on a magazine cover alone, or an interview alone is enough for these type of awards.
> 
> Caitlyn has a perfect opportunity now to get out and talk with others going through what she is, to donate her time and really get some information out there.
> 
> If/when she does that, I'll believe that award should be given.
> 
> It reminds me of when ***** was given the Nobel Peace Prize - even _he_ was confused about it   I just think it's too soon.




Yes!  I too feel like it is precisely the *****-Nobel thing all over again!  It is far too soon.


----------



## SpeedyJC

prettyprincess said:


> is estrogen the qualifying factor? bc a few posts back someone said that testosterone and estrogen aren't determining factors in gender. so I guess my question is if body parts, genetics, chromosomes, and reproductive organs don't determine gender, how is he now being qualified as a she?



Legally Caitlyn is male. Caitlyn will be legally male unless she has the full transitional surgery. For example if Caitlyn was found to be criminally at fault for that fatal accident she would be housed with men while in jail. If she was fully transitioned she would be with females as far as my knowledge. I have posted this but I saw the question come up again so I figure id post it again.


----------



## Hobbsy

Yes, Bruce is still a man.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Well prisoners are treated unfairly IMO, but day to day, since Caitlyn identifies as a woman, she would be able to do things like use women's restrooms in most states, right?

I sound like a broken record at this point, but gender is not as black and white as penis = male and vagina = female. There's men who are born with female genitals and vice versa, and people who are born with both, etc.

The laws are changing to accommodate transgender people and I think it's great. But yeah, Caitlyn is still legally a male I guess. That doesn't mean Caitlyn is a male to me and a lot of other people.


----------



## zen1965

Bentley1 said:


> This thread has become so exhausting to participate in. So much snark and negativity at every turn, over every little thing.
> Frankly, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that Bruce is now Caitlyn.
> Aside from that, I'm disgusted with the way she chose to "come out." Really?
> The only way it could have been any more distasteful, to me, is if she had bared all in Playboy as opposed to the lingerie she was wearing on VF. Tacky, thirsty, attention seeking, fameho. No different than the rest of the women in the family.
> I respect Bruce's journey and transition to Caitlyn, but this person has turned out to be an exceedingly selfish, unaware human being. Respecting Bruce's choice does not equate To blowing sunshine up Caitlyn's a@@ at every turn just to show support for her transition. I respect the choice, but I don't respect the person.




Amen to this.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> The choice of pic for Caitlyn lol
> 
> Remember when Connor was a lil kid that looked so quiet??? ...



I had no clue that Tom Cruise had a grown son!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I do think it's brave to do what she's doing so publicly, but I don't think it was the right award for her.  A lot of people have talked about how Lauren HIll deserved it.
> It's in a lot of news and private conversations actually.  This was the first hit when I googled it:
> 
> *Doc to ESPYs: Lauren Hill's courage trumps Cait Jenner's
> *
> gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/b4ce610adc9c107b7c2284a3816676ffe63ffa2f/c=631-0-5738-3840&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/04/10/Cincinnati/Cincinnati/635642442021435997-lauren-hill-at-home06.JPG
> You'd hate to think that ESPN's decision to honor the newly minted Caitlyn Jenner with the ESPY's Arthur Ashe Courage Award was anything other than altruistic. Bruce becoming Caitlyn was a courageous act that will benefit all who face similar circumstances.
> 
> The fact that Jenner was instantly recognizable before her announcement last month didn't have anything to do with the sports network's decision to honor her, did it? Did it?
> 
> Jenner is tabloid manna. Jenner is ratings gold. People who never before watched the ESPYs  people who didn't know the ESPYs from ESP  now will tune in to perform the TV version of rubbernecking. On Wednesday, E! Entertainment released the first promo video for Caitlyn's upcoming reality show, "I Am Cait''.
> 
> A reality show, for Caitlyn Jenner? Ya don't say.
> 
> Meantime, Lauren Hill was a real-life reality show that E! Entertainment wouldn't have touched. There was nothing to Lauren worth gawking at. She wasn't a Kardashian, she didn't faux-survive in a bikini on a tropical island. She was not, thank god, a housewife of Beverly Hills. Reality television is to reality what botox is to real faces.
> 
> Lauren Hill was just a kid who died. She was just an earth angel, whose poise and selflessness provided everyone in America with a road map to grace. We didn't see her "applying make-up to her face'' as we will Caitlyn, according to a story on the website BusinessInsider.com.
> 
> We didn't see Lauren putting on lipstick and saying, "You start learning the pressure women are under all the time about their appearance," as Caitlyn says. We heard Lauren saying after a basketball game, "Today has been the best day I've ever had.''
> 
> A month or so before she died, Lauren said this:
> 
> "I ask God for a cure for cancer and that my family will be fine when and if I'm gone. They are who I worry about. My family and my friends.''
> 
> Enquirer columnist Paul Daugherty reflects on Lauren Hill's short, but impactful life. The Mount Saint Joseph freshman inspired thousands across the world. She saw the end of her life as the beginning of something bigger. The Enquirer/Carrie Cochran
> 
> Quite possibly, that is more courageous than wondering if the black hose will go with the red dress. Caitlyn Jenner is courage personified. But not without a little bit of Hollywood narcissism.
> 
> Look, it's not that I don't admire the former Bruce Jenner. It isn't that I don't feel compassion for the new Caitlyn. All the best. What you've done has taken more guts than winning a decathlon, or appearing on TV with any number of self-absorbed, brain cell-starved Kardashians.
> 
> It's going to be a tough trail to blaze. Good luck.
> 
> Is it more courageous than what Lauren Hill did?
> 
> Let me be the first to answer that:
> 
> Not in a million lifetimes.
> 
> Ask yourself this: Would you rather know you were living a false life? Or that you'd be dead in a few months? Who gets the better end of that deal?
> 
> Jenner is free to change the world, perhaps for decades. Lauren had about a year and a half, from when she was first diagnosed.
> 
> Jenner has lived a full life: Olympic hero, endorsing machine, sex symbol, TV celebrity, Wheaties man. Lauren lived less than 20 years.
> 
> Lauren did what she did entirely without guile. She didn't seek a stage, except when she knew the stage would help others. She was just Lauren Hill from Lawrenceburg, IN, who loved her family and basketball and who suffered terrible physical pain in the hope that, someday, other kids wouldn't have to.
> 
> Bruce-turned-Caitlyn has lived a life of emotional pain, possibly made worse by Bruce's celebrity status. As ESPN's release notes, "(Caitlyn) has shown the courage to embrace a truth that had been hidden for years, and to embark on a journey that may not only give comfort to those facing similar circumstances, but can also help to educate people on the challenges that the transgender community faces."
> 
> And yet, Caitlyn made her announcement on national TV, in prime time. She will have a reality show  eight, one-hour segments  that will attract as many peepers as those legitimately concerned. Put it this way: TMZ wasn't interested in Lauren Hill.
> 
> Some of us see rare courage and heroism as something other than appearing on national television applying makeup. The attention paid would have made Lauren Hill blush.
> 
> Is this politically impolite? Maybe. It's certainly PC for ESPN to jump on the CaitlynWagon and cheer. It's certainly easier to honor someone the world recognizes. It's no leap of ratings faith to declare Caitlyn Jenner more worthy of a courage trophy than Lauren Hill.
> 
> That doesn't make it right. Not at all.
> 
> http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...rage-award-should-go-to-lauren-hill/28428797/



Lauren Hill was awesome.  I watched her last interview that she did with her mom and it literally broke my heart. RIP Lauren.&#9829;


----------



## SpeedyJC

blackkitty4378 said:


> Well prisoners are treated unfairly IMO, but day to day, since Caitlyn identifies as a woman, she would be able to do things like use women's restrooms in most states, right?
> 
> I sound like a broken record at this point, but gender is not as black and white as penis = male and vagina = female. There's men who are born with female genitals and vice versa, and people who are born with both, etc.
> 
> The laws are changing to accommodate transgender people and I think it's great. But yeah, Caitlyn is still legally a male I guess. That doesn't mean Caitlyn is a male to me and a lot of other people.



Many lawmakers are working on bills to ban transgendered individuals  from using the bathroom of their non birth sex. 


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/19/ky-bill-targets-transgender-school-bathroom-use/22024709/

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article15120632.html


http://rt.com/usa/239941-texas-transgender-bathroom-ban/


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think what we'll see is, as people become more comfortable about their transition, and wanting equal rights, is something similar to what we're currently seeing worldwide with gay equality, in marriage and legal recognition, and changes to a lot of laws or fear campaign's (not here on tPF) about them.

It will be a tough fight for them, as it was/is for gay men and women.


----------



## SpeedyJC

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think what we'll see is, as people become more comfortable about their transition, and wanting equal rights, is something similar to what we're currently seeing worldwide with gay equality, in marriage and legal recognition, and changes to a lot of laws or fear campaign's (not here on tPF) about them.
> 
> It will be a tough fight for them, as it was/is for gay men and women.



Well this article is somewhat promising and a step in right direction. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/28/young-people-transgender-rights_n_6770174.html


----------



## SpeedyJC

Coach Lover Too said:


> I had no clue that Tom Cruise had a grown son!



Well I just realized today Angie and Brad have twins. They just have so many kids I lost track.


----------



## blackkitty4378

SpeedyJC said:


> Many lawmakers are working on bills to ban transgendered individuals  from using the bathroom of their non birth sex.
> 
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/19/ky-bill-targets-transgender-school-bathroom-use/22024709/
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article15120632.html
> 
> 
> http://rt.com/usa/239941-texas-transgender-bathroom-ban/



I'm aware of that. It's usually under false pretenses about transgender people, and a basic lack of understanding and fear of what being transgender is.


----------



## SpeedyJC

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm aware of that. It's usually under false pretenses about transgender people, and a basic lack of understanding and fear of what being transgender is.



I actually wasn't aware of these states bills until I started looking, just thought id share. People fear what they don't understand.


----------



## gail13

I'm not sure how brave it is considering she is worth much more as a she than a he, and stands to make an estimated 5million on the talk show circuit.  Momager K has been known to stop at nothing to make a buck, but this really trumps it all.  I don't think Brucelyn would go these lengths to make a buck, but I'm just saying the huge $$$ makes it less courageous.  The average transgender doesn't get a built in reality show and VF photo shoot.  I'm kind of wondering how that all came about and the timing is kind of interesting.  Divorce, Reveal, Pretend Shock, total admiration and pride, new tv show.....imagine that.  I'm really curious how the whole tv show came about anyway.


----------



## blackkitty4378

SpeedyJC said:


> I actually wasn't aware of these states bills until I started looking, just thought id share. People fear what they don't understand.



No thanks for the information. I was only aware of it because of the fear mongering courtesy of Michelle Duggar, regarding her concerns of males pretending to be transgender women, in order to attack women and girls in bathrooms. Kind of ironic, isn't it?


----------



## blackkitty4378

gail13 said:


> I'm not sure how brave it is considering she is worth much more as a she than a he, and stands to make an estimated 5million on the talk show circuit.  Momager K has been known to stop at nothing to make a buck, but this really trumps it all.  I don't think Brucelyn would go these lengths to make a buck, but I'm just saying the huge $$$ makes it less courageous.  The average transgender doesn't get a built in reality show and VF photo shoot.  I'm kind of wondering how that all came about and the timing is kind of interesting.  Divorce, Reveal, Pretend Shock, total admiration and pride, new tv show.....imagine that.  I'm really curious how the whole tv show came about anyway.



I was skeptical too until I saw photos/video of Caitlyn. I've never seen Bruce look more comfortable in his skin. I think Bruce/Caitlyn is legitimately transgender. If not then that's some good acting. Totally understand your skepticism, though.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

gail13 said:


> I'm not sure how brave it is considering she is worth much more as a she than a he, and stands to make an estimated 5million on the talk show circuit.  Momager K has been known to stop at nothing to make a buck, but this really trumps it all.  I don't think *Brucelyn* would go these lengths to make a buck, but I'm just saying the huge $$$ makes it less courageous.  The average transgender doesn't get a built in reality show and VF photo shoot.  I'm kind of wondering how that all came about and the timing is kind of interesting.  Divorce, Reveal, Pretend Shock, total admiration and pride, new tv show.....imagine that.  I'm really curious how the whole tv show came about anyway.



It's Caitlyn.


----------



## pixiejenna

sdkitty said:


> last I heard the family of a 69-year-old was suing Bruce.  They claim they were financially dependent on the 69-year-old (I don't remember whether it was a man or woman).  If you are a healthy adult and dependent on your parent at that age (I'm assuming these "kids" are probably in their 40's), then this seems like just a money grab to me.



Sadly some kids have no shame and thier parents enable. Is it a money grab yes it is. But sadly ive see it many times before where adult children leech off of thier parents draining them of their well earned retirement funds.


----------



## gail13

blackkitty4378 said:


> I was skeptical too until I saw photos/video of Caitlyn. I've never seen Bruce look more comfortable in his skin. I think Bruce/Caitlyn is legitimately transgender. If not then that's some good acting. Totally understand your skepticism, though.



I believe she is transgender-hard to fake that....but I don't like all the money and PR that comes with it.


----------



## gail13

FreeSpirit71 said:


> It's Caitlyn.



Yeah I know, I was joking.


----------



## poopsie

must every. little. thing. be picked apart and corrected? 

I have known of the man as Bruce for what....almost 40 years? Just because he wakes up one day and says call me Caitlyn isn't going to make it so just like that in a lot of peoples minds. Especially those who were around when he was the schnitz. It was a big deal back then. Maybe if he had pulled a Prince----- as in The Athlete Formally Known As Bruce


----------



## FreeSpirit71

It works both ways @Poopsie. Plenty of posters on the other side of the fence have been just as "picky".

I don't think it's too hard to call someone by the name they now choose to go by.  I criticise her just as much as the next person btw.


----------



## mama13drama99

Whew! I finally made it to the end of this thread after many days.  Every time I made a dent and came close, the pop-ups would start raining in cause many were off and running.  I don't want to comment too much about my opinion on Bruce transitioning into a woman.  As a few have already said, this thread, aside from the length, is exhausting.  So many times, I wanted to reply to interpret what I believed what someone else had shared because it seemed the be pounced on and taken out of context.  Or to simply ask why can't people's opinions that aren't accepting be okay? (Like, if one doesn't agree/understand why is that they are phobic or intolerant? But I thought better of it to not become overly thrusters in trying to make a point or lobbying for the right to disagree...I felt drained just reading all the back and forth!) 

I think that there are many things about this one person, a real human being with flaws and all, that complicate the recent events in her life (even though I don't "agree", I recognize that it serves no purpose and gets the dialogue way off track for me to use male pronouns...and I don't care not even on level one of my meter to push them).  

There have been many to point out their support for Caitlyn as a man who identified with being a woman, both inside and now outside, but just don't see it for the whole circus of the Kardashians (that included him and now includes her)...her association and connection with them seems to make her platform a joke in the eyes of some.  As her former male-self, the parenting, infidelity, dishonestly, etc. has been added barriers to acceptance or cheerleading.  And, sure, I can understand that many here believe and will reply saying that those things are byproduct of the internal issues that Bruce battled while living all theses years as a man.  However, those things are hard to ignore or dismiss.  

For me, those things are easy to separate and still not "agree", but for many it's not.  Moreover, based on my reading herein, there were many, many muddling of those issues in the exchanges held here.  I guess it's already a sensitive subject, so that plus people heartfelt passion (on either side) made/makes it difficult to separate.  Add to that after so much has been said by one person, regardless of their explanation or background given, nothing they say will be well received.  

I get it.  Tempers flare.  People hold firmly to their beliefs.  But I hope that everyone realizes there are far more people reading and not commenting.  Some maybe learning or possible willing to learn, but read what comes off as berating of others who's views may more closely mirror their own.  They may leave and never return.  I have learned quite a bit.  (I find it odd that people who hold transitioning very close and deeply have continued to make comments and use terms that are frowned upon...and sorry, I don't buy it takes a while to adjust, I read article FreeSpirit posted and have been deleting to correct myself...I don't agree but I'm making a conscientious effort...IJS). It hasn't swayed my beliefs.  But I can certainly say that I'm very informed.  Keep in mind, as I've seen it happen since my time on tPF, people may join five years from now a revive this thread...IJS.  People should be able to read all opinions from all vantage points without the notion that those who don't agree weren't singled out and shamed. 

I'll end with this.  I don't hate Bruce for any of what he did in his past.  That's not for me to do.  I am even working on trying not to judge him for the things he did.  I don't hate Caitlyn.  I'm not a fan either.  I hope that she is able to save lives and that she does!  I hope the next events to come are not foolishness because so much for people depends on how this plays out.  That may not be fair, but in many lights her decisions have sort of made her quite responsible.  I absolutely don't want to see, hear or read about people being murdered, attacked or killing themselves.  That's what's important to me.  I don't THINK I have to agree, understand or even (fully) accept it to want what's best for people.  People need and should healthcare, safety, freedoms, rights, rights for their loved one to see them and make decisions for them when they are not able to do so...regardless of their identity! 

In recent years, I've learned that I can't determine who is going to heaven or hell!  That's not up to me.  God calls me to love people no matter what.  And I'm realistic, if I'm standing on my soapbox screaming at folks that they are no-good-sinners destined for hell, I'm surely not drawing them in and they won't hear anything I have to say!  I'm also realistic when it comes to the fact that even though I may not do A (that is wrong in my eyes), yet do B (also wrong in my eyes), I am NO better than the person who is doing A!

My intent was not to offend or tear down anyone or their beliefs.  

BTW, did anyone know that the Bold and Beautiful has been closely dealing with this storyline (I am sure long before the Sawyer interview)?


----------



## Singra

^ Yeah it also took me a while to make it through all the comments and I wasn't going to comments except after all the time it took to read this thread I felt like I had to vent a bit... even though my comment will add very little to what's already been said.  



My feelings towards Caitlyn are heavily clouded by my feelings towards the Kardashians, I've never liked the Kardashians and Jenners, I don't feel they contribute anything of substance to society and I think we'd all be better off if they were removed from the public stage. 

What can I say about Caitlyn, it's a really good thing she is freely and fully able to express herself but gender hasn't changed my dislike for him now her. Even though I think it's a revolutionary and positive thing for a formally alpha male athlete to make this public transition I'm too young to have known Bruce Jenner in any other context besides tabloids and reality TV.  

So personally it doesn't even feel that revolutionary for her to be on the cover of Vanity Fair. It feels like exactly the kind of thing that would happen if one of the members of the Kardashian clan turned out to be transgender, gay/lesbian, purple/green, an alien, a jihadist... of course they'd land up on the cover of a magazine and 'break the internet', of course we'd all be compelled to have tons of opinions on the matter, of course there'd all be 'important' articles written about it, of course they'd drum up tons of business, of course all of that would happen because that's the currency they trade in, thats what gives them their power. We make the Kardashians who they are and it annoys me to no end.

I approve of who Caitlyn is and what she's done but I resent having another Jenner/Kardashian media vortex in my periphery.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

mama13drama99 said:


> BTW, did anyone know that the Bold and Beautiful has been closely dealing with this storyline (I am sure long before the Sawyer interview)?



Yes! Re: B & B. That storyline is just coming to fruition here in Australia ie Rick is about to propose to Mya (ie who was born male) who has yet to tell him.

Interesting to see how they're handling it (certainly better than the equally scripted KUWTK). I think the way they're doing it is really good. Mya isn't a well-liked character, but the way she's been explaining it to her unknowing sister has been pretty amazing.


----------



## mama13drama99

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Yes! Re: B & B. That storyline is just coming to fruition here in Australia ie Rick is about to propose to Mya (ie who was born male) who has yet to tell him
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting to see how they're handling it (certainly better than the equally scripted KUWTK). I think the way they're doing it is really good. Mya isn't a well-liked character, but the way she's been explaining it to her unknowing sister has been pretty amazing.




ABSOLUTELY!!! Here's what else...other characters who don't like her, came to her defense when the you know what was being plotted to hit the fan!  Which tells me, you don't have to like it or the person but YOU DON'T uphold or participate in the wrong doing towards another person!  That's the tolerance I'd like to see!  

I have and have had many relatives and people I grew up with who are and were gay (I know, not the same, but let me make my point).  A few of the ones who passed away died of AIDS.  One cousin, and older man, struggled like Bruce did in his past.  Church minister.  Married three times, one woman he married twice. Had children.  Left repeatedly for a man.  How is wish, that he and others didn't feel the need to HAVE to live in secret.  Maybe he would have practiced better and safer sexual behavior.  Maybe he would have gotten medical treatment to extend his life.  A family friend also didn't get medical care.  In either case, no one knew until the end.  What that does to those who care for and love the person is heavy!  What's sad is people suspected it anyway. Too many people have been lost far too soon due to being shunned.  Don't agree? Fine.  I don't either.  But I don't judge.  And I don't (anymore) force people into a box.


----------



## blackkitty4378

mama13drama99 said:


> Whew! I finally made it to the end of this thread after many days.  Every time I made a dent and came close, the pop-ups would start raining in cause many were off and running.  I don't want to comment too much about my opinion on Bruce transitioning into a woman.  As a few have already said, this thread, aside from the length, is exhausting.  So many times, I wanted to reply to interpret what I believed what someone else had shared because it seemed the be pounced on and taken out of context.  Or to simply ask why can't people's opinions that aren't accepting be okay? (Like, if one doesn't agree/understand why is that they are phobic or intolerant? But I thought better of it to not become overly thrusters in trying to make a point or lobbying for the right to disagree...I felt drained just reading all the back and forth!)
> 
> I think that there are many things about this one person, a real human being with flaws and all, that complicate the recent events in her life (even though I don't "agree", I recognize that it serves no purpose and gets the dialogue way off track for me to use male pronouns...and I don't care not even on level one of my meter to push them).
> 
> There have been many to point out their support for Caitlyn as a man who identified with being a woman, both inside and now outside, but just don't see it for the whole circus of the Kardashians (that included him and now includes her)...her association and connection with them seems to make her platform a joke in the eyes of some.  As her former male-self, the parenting, infidelity, dishonestly, etc. has been added barriers to acceptance or cheerleading.  And, sure, I can understand that many here believe and will reply saying that those things are byproduct of the internal issues that Bruce battled while living all theses years as a man.  However, those things are hard to ignore or dismiss.
> 
> For me, those things are easy to separate and still not "agree", but for many it's not.  Moreover, based on my reading herein, there were many, many muddling of those issues in the exchanges held here.  I guess it's already a sensitive subject, so that plus people heartfelt passion (on either side) made/makes it difficult to separate.  Add to that after so much has been said by one person, regardless of their explanation or background given, nothing they say will be well received.
> 
> I get it.  Tempers flare.  People hold firmly to their beliefs.  But I hope that everyone realizes there are far more people reading and not commenting.  Some maybe learning or possible willing to learn, but read what comes off as berating of others who's views may more closely mirror their own.  They may leave and never return.  I have learned quite a bit.  *(I find it odd that people who hold transitioning very close and deeply have continued to make comments and use terms that are frowned upon...and sorry, I don't buy it takes a while to adjust, I read article FreeSpirit posted and have been deleting to correct myself...I don't agree but I'm making a conscientious effort...IJS).* It hasn't swayed my beliefs.  But I can certainly say that I'm very informed.  Keep in mind, as I've seen it happen since my time on tPF, people may join five years from now a revive this thread...IJS.  People should be able to read all opinions from all vantage points without the notion that those who don't agree weren't singled out and shamed.
> 
> I'll end with this.  I don't hate Bruce for any of what he did in his past.  That's not for me to do.  I am even working on trying not to judge him for the things he did.  I don't hate Caitlyn.  I'm not a fan either.  I hope that she is able to save lives and that she does!  I hope the next events to come are not foolishness because so much for people depends on how this plays out.  That may not be fair, but in many lights her decisions have sort of made her quite responsible.  I absolutely don't want to see, hear or read about people being murdered, attacked or killing themselves.  That's what's important to me.  I don't THINK I have to agree, understand or even (fully) accept it to want what's best for people.  People need and should healthcare, safety, freedoms, rights, rights for their loved one to see them and make decisions for them when they are not able to do so...regardless of their identity!
> 
> In recent years, I've learned that I can't determine who is going to heaven or hell!  That's not up to me.  God calls me to love people no matter what.  And I'm realistic, if I'm standing on my soapbox screaming at folks that they are no-good-sinners destined for hell, I'm surely not drawing them in and they won't hear anything I have to say!  I'm also realistic when it comes to the fact that even though I may not do A (that is wrong in my eyes), yet do B (also wrong in my eyes), I am NO better than the person who is doing A!
> 
> My intent was not to offend or tear down anyone or their beliefs.
> 
> BTW, did anyone know that the Bold and Beautiful has been closely dealing with this storyline (I am sure long before the Sawyer interview)?



Who's doing that? I hope I'm not. I'm trying to use the name Caitlyn and she/her, but it doesn't make sense when I'm referring to Caitlyn in the past as Bruce because I feel like Caitlyn is almost new, if that makes sense? Caitlyn even mentioned "Bruce having lies." And, yeah, I am having a hard time adjusting to Bruce as Caitlyn. It doesn't make me any less supportive.


----------



## mama13drama99

Last thing, as far as the restroom is concerned...when first reading I too felt like I'd have a problem with using the restroom with someone who had or is transition.  For people to dismiss it and/or say they don't see what the big deal is...well, that just as insensitive.  And forcing something down my throat or making me feel bad about isn't the way to get me to consider an opposing view!   (Sometimes all it takes is a short while for folks to ponder something...no browbeating needed). However, I have used the men's restroom become when the line outside the women's restroom was ridiculous.  And one time (at band camp) I walked in boldly like, 'what y'all looking at?' I'd imagine that if it was known or apparent (if it can be) I'd say something like, 'I won't look over (under) there and as long as you won't look over (under) here! Deal?'  Just as I've done when using the men's restroom.  One time I told some guys to get out cause I wanted privacy.  They laughed and told me don't leave any trace that I'd been in there.  I thought they meant number 2 but they said nope cause that was standard, and that they meant fruity lotion and perfume. One stood my the door to keep other guys out. I bought him a drink too.  Sorry, too far OT!


----------



## luminosity

i think he is quite pretty compared to kris. no wonder jenner sisters are prettier compared to kardhashian sisters


----------



## mama13drama99

blackkitty4378 said:


> Who's doing that? I hope I'm not. I'm trying to use the name Caitlyn and she/her, but it doesn't make sense when I'm referring to Caitlyn in the past as Bruce because I feel like Caitlyn is almost new, if that makes sense? Caitlyn even mentioned "Bruce having lies." And, yeah, I am having a hard time adjusting to Bruce as Caitlyn. It doesn't make me any less supportive.




Sorry, wasn't taking notes on it, lol! Just observed it.  I had learned something new so the teacher in me read each subsequent post with that knew knowledge active in my mind.  Me pointing it out was to make people more aware of their own doing.  No, I don't think it lessens the support.  But it does go a long way to use the acceptable verbiage. 

And yes, when referring to things in his past, I think (and I'm no authority) it's perfectly okay to refer to Caitlyn as Bruce/him/his.  But I've read things like "trans", "transgendered", etc. 

S/N: my phone actually recognized transgendered as a word.


----------



## Eva1991

gail13 said:


> I'm not sure how brave it is considering she is worth much more as a she than a he, and stands to make an estimated 5million on the talk show circuit.  Momager K has been known to stop at nothing to make a buck, but this really trumps it all.  I don't think Brucelyn would go these lengths to make a buck, but I'm just saying the huge $$$ makes it less courageous.  The average transgender doesn't get a built in reality show and VF photo shoot.  I'm kind of wondering how that all came about and the timing is kind of interesting.  Divorce, Reveal, Pretend Shock, total admiration and pride, new tv show.....imagine that.  I'm really curious how the whole tv show came about anyway.



You're right about Caitlyn not being the "average transgender" in terms of money and fame. This, however, doesn't mean that she hasn't faced the same psychological issues transgender people face throughout their lives. Anxiety, confusion, depression etc. These problems don't discriminate between rich and poor.

Having the means to afford surgeries and therapy probably makes the journey towards transition easier but it doesn't make it less stressful, IMO.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

poopsie said:


> must every. little. thing. be picked apart and corrected?
> 
> I have known of the man as Bruce for what....almost 40 years? Just because he wakes up one day and says call me Caitlyn isn't going to make it so just like that in a lot of peoples minds. Especially those who were around when he was the schnitz. It was a big deal back then. Maybe if he had pulled a Prince----- as in The Athlete Formally Known As Bruce


Exactly. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Personally, I think he should have left his tweets instead of deleting them. He shouldn't feel pressured because some may disagree.


This comment from *G* on the story nails what a lot of people are thinking though. 

                     G                     20 hours ago                                              3                                              
                                              204                                              

                                                           What poor Connor failed to realize is that he  touched on a subject that stands on sacred ground and one is not allowed  to utter one word of opinion or rational fact without being criticized  and labeled as a hater.
Isn't it funny that if it was any other person being awarded the Espy  Courageous award for something they stand for or did, that people would  be allowed to give their opinion that it should have  gone to someone  else if they didn't agree with the decision and they would not have been  criticized for giving that differing opinion. 
But since it was for Bruce changing his name and physical  characteristics to become more like a woman (PS he will always be male  since he has XY chromosomes), people are not allowed to say that it  should have gone to someone more worthy!
I hope I get 1,000 thumbs down from all those sacred ground worshiper's  that feel no one should have a different opinion or thought on this  subject!                     

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/news/co...caitlyn-jenners-espy-090000509-us-weekly.html


----------



## AEGIS

gosh this thread isn't fun


----------



## Coach Lover Too

AEGIS said:


> gosh this thread isn't fun



Shhhhhh.....don't wake them up.


----------



## Charles

poopsie said:


> must every. little. thing. be picked apart and corrected?
> 
> I have known of the man as Bruce for what....almost 40 years? Just because he wakes up one day and says call me Caitlyn isn't going to make it so just like that in a lot of peoples minds. Especially those who were around when he was the schnitz. It was a big deal back then. Maybe if he had pulled a Prince----- as in The Athlete Formally Known As Bruce



Well, yeah.  I can't help but think how some of these comments would go over if they were about someone coming out as gay or directed towards someone of a minority.  People keep saying "I respect transgender people", then in the next breath still refer to her as a him or insist on calling her Bruce or putting their own labels on her and saying "He's a man...period".  Then run and hide behind "Well, I just don't like how he's handling it".  The fact that you don't like how someone handles how they come out to the world doesn't give you the excuse to disrespect that subset of people as a whole.  And just cause it's your opinion, doesn't mean it's not filled with derogatory connotations and ignorance.  You're more than welcome to say what you want, and I'm going to call you out as being close minded and lacking empathy for something you refuse to learn more about and try to understand better.  It's that simple.  I mean, if I came in here and said "I think Chris Brown is a n*gg*r piece of crap" or replied to something I didn't like with  "That's gay!", how many of you would be calling me out on being discriminatory, racist and rude?  And how would it look if I replied with "Well, that's what I feel like saying...it's my right to and you need to be more tolerant". No...there's no excuse to tolerate someone who's downing other people as a whole.  Do I like Chris Brown? No.  I think he's a crappy person, but I'm not going to use his color in a derogatory way to express my dislike of him.  
No one here as a problem with you saying "I think Caitlyn is a poor parent and I dislike how she's handling all this."  The problem is when you make underhand, snide, passive aggressive comments, bringing in her transitioning to a woman in your comments about it, insisting on calling her whatever you want and putting your labels on her.  Like I keep saying, you don't have to understand, all you have to do is respect that aspect of her.


----------



## Charles

Coach Lover Too said:


> Shhhhhh.....don't wake them up.



Trust me...it's not "us" who needs to wake up.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

My favorite is when people think freedom of speech means you're free from criticism. When someone says something racist people practically call for them to be burned alived. You want them to lose their jobs like Guiliana Rancic but when it comes to something like this phobic and ignorant remarks are suddenly ok. "Have patience people"... You're free to leave those comments but don't get butt hurt and act all shocked when someone points out that you are being ignorant and challenges you to think outside of your bubble. If you can't challenge each other no progression will ever be made. Sounds like people just want permission to act like a j@ck@$$ and not be called on it


----------



## exotikittenx

Hobbsy said:


> Yes, Bruce is still a man.



Legality is not the equivalent of morality.  It is morally wrong to call her a man when her identity and request is to be called a female.  Posts like this may appear trite, but carry a world worth of weight in intolerance, disrespect, phobia, and hatred.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

@Charles, some need to take off their rose colored glasses. Better?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Some people act like Ms. Jenner just found the cure for cancer. gmafb


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> Some people act like Ms. Jenner just found the cure for cancer. gmafb




Here you go again. Maybe you need to put on glasses since NO ONE is acting that way


----------



## glamourous1098

Coach Lover Too said:


> Some people act like Ms. Jenner just found the cure for cancer. gmafb



No, no one is.  People are just asking others to respect Ms. Jenner's identity and realize the importance of her transition, regardless of your personal feelings towards her actions in the past/personality.


----------



## guccimamma

luminosity said:


> i think he is quite pretty compared to kris. no wonder jenner sisters are prettier compared to kardhashian sisters



his sister is lovely, and as far as i can tell...unplasticized


----------



## GaitreeS

coach lover too said:


> some people act like ms. Jenner just found the cure for cancer. Gmafb


 
+1000


----------



## Coach Lover Too

According to this article it doesn't seem to bother her what she's called. 
http://m.eonline.com/news/663547/dr...egrets-negative-effect-they-ve-had-on-so-many


----------



## Charles

Coach Lover Too said:


> Some people act like Ms. Jenner just found the cure for cancer. gmafb



I think I've been pretty clear that it's totally OK to rag on her for being a poor parent or even a poor person in general, the issue, is when you, and a few others, choose to bring in her choice to transition to a female and use that in your insults.

Has she made some poor decisions in the past? Yes.
Do I feel it takes a level of strength to come out in the public eye and say "Want to be a woman"?  Yes.

Those two things are not necessarily related and therefore can be addressed separately, and my praise for one of those doesn't mean I'm praising for the other.

Does that help clear things up a bit?


----------



## krissa

Interesting. I wonder why it's not okay to use Bruce in past tense. Bruce did win the Olympics. Caitlyn Jenner didn't exist until days ago. (Btw not trying to be rude or insensitive).


----------



## Charles

Coach Lover Too said:


> According to this article it doesn't seem to bother her what she's called.
> http://m.eonline.com/news/663547/dr...egrets-negative-effect-they-ve-had-on-so-many



Right, cause she realizes that a lot of people have known her as Bruce for so long.  In other words, an innocent slip up isn't a big deal.  Choosing to purposely caller her Bruce is.


----------



## krissa

Singra said:


> ^
> 
> I approve of who Caitlyn is and what she's done but I resent having another Jenner/Kardashian media vortex in my periphery.



So much this!


----------



## exotikittenx

Charles said:


> Well, yeah.  I can't help but think how some of these comments would go over if they were about someone coming out as gay or directed towards someone of a minority.  People keep saying "I respect transgender people", then in the next breath still refer to her as a him or insist on calling her Bruce or putting their own labels on her and saying "He's a man...period".  Then run and hide behind "Well, I just don't like how he's handling it".  The fact that you don't like how someone handles how they come out to the world doesn't give you the excuse to disrespect that subset of people as a whole.  And just cause it's your opinion, doesn't mean it's not filled with derogatory connotations and ignorance.  You're more than welcome to say what you want, and I'm going to call you out as being close minded and lacking empathy for something you refuse to learn more about and try to understand better.  It's that simple.  I mean, if I came in here and said "I think Chris Brown is a n*gg*r piece of crap" or replied to something I didn't like with  "That's gay!", how many of you would be calling me out on being discriminatory, racist and rude?  And how would it look if I replied with "Well, that's what I feel like saying...it's my right to and you need to be more tolerant". No...there's no excuse to tolerate someone who's downing other people as a whole.  Do I like Chris Brown? No.  I think he's a crappy person, but I'm not going to use his color in a derogatory way to express my dislike of him.
> No one here as a problem with you saying "I think Caitlyn is a poor parent and I dislike how she's handling all this."  The problem is when you make underhand, snide, passive  aggressive comments, bringing in her transitioning to a woman in your comments about it, insisting on calling her whatever you want and putting your labels on her.  Like I keep saying, you don't have to understand, all you have to do is respect that aspect of her.



Yes, exactly.  It has much to do with the fact that transgender people still do not have the same civil liberties or protection at this stage in time, not only in the U.S., but in much of the world.  It is the equivalent of racism to call a transgender person by the wrong pronoun or name, especially once we have been made aware (as people have posted countless times in this thread already what is considered faux pas or inappropriate to say to/about a transgender person).  Racist language would never be tolerated in this forum, so I don't understand why transphobic language is tolerated or used.  I realize that people are still unaware or ignorant about what it means to be transgender, and may inadvertently make mistakes in their speech (as I once did, but am now aware, and will no longer use that terminology), but some people in this thread are actively resisting, even when they have been told that it is hurtful and harmful to say such things.  



ForeverYoung87 said:


> My favorite is when people think freedom of speech means you're free from criticism. When someone says something racist people practically call for them to be burned alived. You want them to lose their jobs like Guiliana Rancic but when it comes to something like this phobic and ignorant remarks are suddenly ok. "Have patience people"... You're free to leave those comments but don't get butt hurt and act all shocked when someone points out that you are being ignorant and challenges you to think outside of your bubble. If you can't challenge each other no progression will ever be made. Sounds like people just want permission to act like a j@ck@$$ and not be called on it



Yes.  Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence in the public eye.


----------



## Coco Belle

Charles said:


> And just cause it's your opinion, doesn't mean it's not filled with derogatory connotations and ignorance. You're more than welcome to say what you want, and I'm going to call you out as being close minded and lacking empathy for something you refuse to learn more about and try to understand better. It's that simple. I mean, if I came in here and said "I think Chris Brown is a n*gg*r piece of crap" or replied to something I didn't like with "That's gay!", how many of you would be calling me out on being discriminatory, racist and rude?


 
Charles 
People will throw around things like "I have a right to state my opinion" and yes, you do. But the right to state an opinion is directly related to the responsibility to think it through and be able to defend it when it's criticised. Otherwise I could go stand on street corners and shriek about how God hates f*gs and no-one would be allowed to hold up a sign to the contrary.


----------



## Eva1991

krissa said:


> Interesting. I wonder why it's not okay to use Bruce in past tense. Bruce did win the Olympics. Caitlyn Jenner didn't exist until days ago. (Btw not trying to be rude or insensitive).



Thanks for posting this. It's very informative.

IMO Caitlyn did not appear out of the blue a few days ago. She said she's always felt like a woman, ever since she was a little kid, and didn't feel comfortable with the male sex that was assigned to her upon birth, so I don't think she's a completely new person just because the general public found out about her recently.


----------



## BPC

I had no respect for Bruce, and that doesn't change now because she's Caitlyn.
Whether a he or a she, the core remains the same.


----------



## prettyprincess

ByeKitty said:


> Good question! Yeah, it's not black and white, I would say "he" can be referred to as a "she" as soon as she officially identifies herself as female.



I see. So he is a woman simply because he declares it to be so? how come when people say that he's still a man because nothing has genetically changed, its offensive? Also, is it healthy that people who have this psychological condition? illness? are encouraged to manipulate their hormones and mutilate their bodies? It seems so extreme to me.


----------



## poopsie

Coach Lover Too said:


> According to this article it doesn't seem to bother her what she's called.
> http://m.eonline.com/news/663547/dr...egrets-negative-effect-they-ve-had-on-so-many





Sure seems to bother plenty of people with no real connection to the man


For the record idgaf what he calls himself or what he has chosen his path to be. I don't find it repulsive or abhorrent or feel that he should be damned to eternal hellfire. I have no problem with him at all. Now, his rabid defenders are another story. People are entitled to their beliefs and not everyone is going to be okay with things that you feel they should. I spent most of the 80's hanging out in bars (gay and straight) with a group of gay/bi/ straight friends, so I get the issues. I just get the sense that sensitivity is a one way street here---- we are supposed to be oh so sensitive and uber supportive and anyone who isn't is lectured on what constitutes proper behavior in these issues.


----------



## Eva1991

Coco Belle said:


> Charles
> *People will throw around things like "I have a right to state my opinion" and yes, you do. But the right to state an opinion is directly related to the responsibility to think it through and be able to defend it when it's criticised. *Otherwise I could go stand on street corners and shriek about how God hates f*gs and no-one would be allowed to hold up a sign to the contrary.



Very good post.

Just because each of us has the right to state their own opinion doesn't mean that the others don't have the right to criticize said opinion.


----------



## Eva1991

prettyprincess said:


> I see. So he is a woman simply because he declares it to be so? how come when people say that he's still a man because nothing has genetically changed, its offensive? Also, is it healthy that people who have this psychological condition? illness? are encouraged to manipulate their hormones and mutilate their bodies? It seems so extreme to me.



She's not a woman because she simply says so, but because she *feels* like and identifies as a woman. Genetics don't determine who we are.

How would you call a woman who was born without a uterus or without ovaries, for example?  There are cases of women who were born without these organs but they're not any less of a woman than the rest of us.


----------



## exotikittenx

poopsie said:


> Sure seems to bother plenty of people with no real connection to the man
> 
> 
> For the record idgaf what he calls himself or what he has chosen his path to be. I don't find it repulsive or abhorrent or feel that he should be damned to eternal hellfire. I have no problem with him at all. Now, his rabid defenders are another story. People are entitled to their beliefs and not everyone is going to be okay with things that you feel they should. I spent most of the 80's hanging out in bars (gay and straight) with a group of gay/bi/ straight friends, so I get the issues. I just get the sense that sensitivity is a one way street here---- we are supposed to be oh so sensitive and uber supportive and anyone who isn't is lectured on what constitutes proper behavior in these issues.



That is pretty easy for people to say-- that "sensitivity is a one way street", but people who do not have the rights yet to protect themselves deserve to be protected by others who do.  It is also easy for people to throw their opinions around about something that they are privileged enough not to have suffered through themselves.  Just because you've hung around gay and bi people doesn't mean you know what they have individually gone through themselves, or know what it is like to be a transgender person.  And you've been in some bars with them... but were you there in instances, such as this, when a transgender woman was pushed onto the subway tracks?  

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dominichold...onto-nyc-subway-tracks-in-possible#.taKwln1BA


----------



## Coco Belle

prettyprincess said:


> I see. So he is a woman simply because he declares it to be so??.


 
Yes, it has to be this way because (see my next point...):



prettyprincess said:


> how come when people say that he's still a man because nothing has *genetically* changed, its offensive?.


 
... *genes* cannot be used to determine gender.
We used to think that they could be - that's what many people's ideas are based on - BUT, we now have more scientific insight into this area, and we're realising that we were wrong. 

We are now finding out that one's *brain* determines one's gender. There is a part of the brain that actually tells the organism in question "you are female/male". You can have what used to be thought of as "male" genes, but have a brain that idenfies you as female.

It is very unlucky that sometimes, the genes/genitals and the brain don't agree. But, as most people would agree, it is pointless trying to get a brain to agree with a body part. Rather change the body part, if you can, so that the brain can do what it is wired to do.

So, society is still trying to adjust to this change in perception. Hence all the confusion and prejudice.



prettyprincess said:


> Also, is it healthy that people who have this psychological condition? illness? are encouraged to manipulate their hormones and mutilate their bodies? It seems so extreme to me.


 
See, it's not a psychological condition or illness. It's an accident, where they got a brain that says one thing, and a body that says another, and it was just bad luck. 

Just like being born with a club foot. You would never tell a person with a club foot that they just need to accept their club foot and that if they try to change it, they're sick in the head. You'd be like "oh jeez, yeah, you're right, you were meant to have a normal foot" and you'd support them in getting it fixed. (Or not. Maybe they want to keep their club foot, and that's OK too. But you wouldn't think they were sick in the head either way.)


----------



## JetSetGo!

AEGIS said:


> gosh this thread isn't fun



&#9786;&#65039;


You got that right!


----------



## BPC

Coco Belle said:


> Yes, it has to be this way because (see my next point...):
> 
> 
> 
> ... *genes* cannot be used to determine gender.
> We used to think that they could be - that's what many people's ideas are based on - BUT, we now have more scientific insight into this area, and we're realising that we were wrong.
> 
> We are now finding out that one's *brain* determines one's gender. There is a part of the brain that actually tells the organism in question "you are female/male". You can have what used to be thought of as "male" genes, but have a brain that idenfies you as female.
> 
> It is very unlucky that sometimes, the genes/genitals and the brain don't agree. But, as most people would agree, it is pointless trying to get a brain to agree with a body part. Rather change the body part, if you can, so that the brain can do what it is wired to do.
> 
> So, society is still trying to adjust to this change in perception. Hence all the confusion and prejudice.
> 
> 
> 
> See, it's not a psychological condition or illness. It's an accident, where they got a brain that says one thing, and a body that says another, and it was just bad luck.
> 
> Just like being born with a club foot. You would never tell a person with a club foot that they just need to accept their club foot and that if they try to change it, they're sick in the head. You'd be like "oh jeez, yeah, you're right, you were meant to have a normal foot" and you'd support them in getting it fixed. (Or not. Maybe they want to keep their club foot, and that's OK too. But you wouldn't think they were sick in the head either way.)



Well, some doctors disagree with you and they are calling it a mental disorder.

*"Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is &#8216;Mental Disorder;' Sex Change &#8216;Biologically Impossible&#8217;*

link to article: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/mic...atrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

I don't care either way- not my life so I won't judge.


----------



## Coco Belle

BPC said:


> Well, some doctors disagree with you and they are calling it a mental disorder.
> 
> *"Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is &#8216;Mental Disorder;' Sex Change &#8216;Biologically Impossible&#8217;*
> 
> link to article: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/mic...atrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change




Yes, you have found *a* doctor who disagrees with many other doctors. You will find that in every area of scientific inquiry. That is the nature of science -- debate _has_ to continue, forever, in order to ensure that we keep refining our understanding.

You will find articles in the 60s, 70s, 80s that had doctors dissenting against homosexuality and mixed-race relationships in a similar way. That doesn't mean that their dissent stood up to further interrogation.

I will also say that "cns news" is one of those "alternative news sites" that has a very specific agenda. Have a look at the stories in the sidebar for more context.


----------



## BPC

I wasn't looking for that article. I just remembered reading it a few days ago so found it again and linked it after I read your comment.

Like I said, it doesn't make a difference to me, but he's not the only doctor that believes it's a disorder.
It's just not politically correct these days to come out and say so.


----------



## prettyprincess

Coco Belle said:


> Yes, you have found *a* doctor who disagrees with many other doctors. You will find that in every area of scientific inquiry. That is the nature of science -- debate _has_ to continue, forever, in order to ensure that we keep refining our understanding.
> 
> You will find articles in the 60s, 70s, 80s that had doctors dissenting against homosexuality and mixed-race relationships in a similar way. That doesn't mean that their dissent stood up to further interrogation.
> 
> I will also say that "cns news" is one of those "alternative news sites" that has a very specific agenda. Have a look at the stories in the sidebar for more context.



A lot of doctors and scientists consider it a psychological condition, otherwise why would trans people be required partake in therapy for years before surgery? they don't require someone who has club foot into therapy before surgery.


----------



## Coco Belle

prettyprincess said:


> A lot of doctors and scientists consider it a psychological condition, otherwise why would trans people be required partake in therapy for years before surgery? they don't require someone who has club foot into therapy before surgery.


 
Firstly, there's a logical error in your thinking, and a few facts you've glossed over:

Doctors do, usually, require some therapy before completing certain surgeries related to genitals/apparent sex (usually the irreversible ones).

This is for a number of reasons, including things like: does the person fully understand that they may not be able to bear children after this? Have they thought that through? Have they taken steps to mitigate any of those concerns? Do they have support after the surgery (since trans* people are still VERY vulnerable to violence and murder, both before and after surgery)? Have they worked things out with employers (since, again, discrimination, recovery time, etc.)? Are their families going to stand by them? Are they going to be abandoned? Do they have adequate education and emotional strength to stand up against people when they are called sick, ill, etc.? Do they live in an area where they might be more safe/understood (i.e., in an LGBTQ friendly neighbourhood)?

The logical error is this: You assume that because therapy is part of the journey, that the doctor thinks the patient is mentally ill. That is incorrect. Therapy is for everyone, whether they are mentally ill or not. It is generally intended to help people with traumatic transitions of all kinds. Trans* surgeries are traumatic _because other people do not accept or understand them_. Your own views and statements in this thread are a testament to the kind of thing that trans* people have to prepare themselves for.

Surgeons would generally want to also have a second opinion, via a psychologist or counsellor, that the patient does not have any other conditions (like, for example, schizophrenia) that may be causing a delusion that mimics the issues of a trans* person. Since, as of now, we have no scientifically verified way of checking to see what someone's gender is (since this area is evolving as we go along), we have to rely on the subjective but educated opinions of medical professionals to make that assessment. 

That doesn't mean trans* people are mentally ill. It means that mentally ill people might, sometimes, think they are trans* -- just like they might think they have a club foot.


----------



## Sassys

Charles said:


> Well, yeah.  I can't help but think how some of these comments would go over if they were about someone coming out as gay or directed towards someone of a minority.  People keep saying "I respect transgender people", then in the next breath still refer to her as a him or insist on calling her Bruce or putting their own labels on her and saying "He's a man...period".  Then run and hide behind "Well, I just don't like how he's handling it".  The fact that you don't like how someone handles how they come out to the world doesn't give you the excuse to disrespect that subset of people as a whole.  And just cause it's your opinion, doesn't mean it's not filled with derogatory connotations and ignorance.  You're more than welcome to say what you want, and I'm going to call you out as being close minded and lacking empathy for something you refuse to learn more about and try to understand better.  It's that simple.  I mean, if I came in here and said "I think Chris Brown is a n*gg*r piece of crap" or replied to something I didn't like with  "That's gay!", how many of you would be calling me out on being discriminatory, racist and rude?  And how would it look if I replied with "Well, that's what I feel like saying...it's my right to and you need to be more tolerant". No...there's no excuse to tolerate someone who's downing other people as a whole.  Do I like Chris Brown? No.  I think he's a crappy person, but I'm not going to use his color in a derogatory way to express my dislike of him.
> No one here as a problem with you saying "I think Caitlyn is a poor parent and I dislike how she's handling all this."  The problem is when you make underhand, snide, passive aggressive comments, bringing in her transitioning to a woman in your comments about it, insisting on calling her whatever you want and putting your labels on her.  Like I keep saying, you don't have to understand, all you have to do is respect that aspect of her.


 

:urock:


----------



## Junkenpo

It's not exactly therapy, but when I had my tubes tied, I had to have a "consultation" with the doctor before the procedure and then I had to sign papers saying I knew it was permanent and irreversible and that I promised not so sue. 

My doctor was nice with no bother other than "you're sure?" and set up the consultation as a formality.  Other women (younger, single, no kids) have had doctors deny/refuse to do this for women, and men have a much easier time getting snipped. 

Society is inherently biased against marginalized groups.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I heard on Dr. Drew the other day that the suicide rate *after* transition is 40%. I admit I do worry about her after the newness wears off, the cameras are gone and the loneliness sets in. Hope she has some true friends and not just people that want to take advantage. I'm empathetic in that sense but not the *in your face* kinda thing. It feels like overload.


----------



## Coco Belle

BPC said:


> I wasn't looking for that article. I just remembered reading it a few days ago so found it again and linked it after I read your comment.
> 
> Like I said, it doesn't make a difference to me, but he's not the only doctor that believes it's a disorder.
> It's just not politically correct these days to come out and say so.



You are right -- "these days" it is not politically correct to call trans* people mentally ill.

It's also not politically correct to call homosexual people mentally ill anymore.

Or to put women into insane asylums because they enjoy sex, or (GASP) masturbate.

I'm glad about all of those things. I think it's about time that everyone stopped having indefensible opinions about the contents of everyone else's drawers, and started accepting human beings in all their differences. 

In time, science always seems to find out that our opinions were based on nonsense, so I would rather accept people as they appear to me for now - and assume that they are trying their best, as I am.

Maybe that's just me?


----------



## Coco Belle

Coach Lover Too said:


> I heard on Dr. Drew the other day that the suicide rate *after* transition is 40%. I admit I do worry about her after the newness wears off, the cameras are gone and the loneliness sets in. Hope she has some true friends and not just people that want to take advantage. I'm empathetic in that sense but not the *in your face* kinda thing. It feels like overload.



I agree it's going to be rough later.

I for one am glad about the in-your-faceness, for the sake of trans* people in general (as you can tell in this thread, as people have talked/argued, they've learned new stuff, and that wouldn't have happened had this whole reveal not been so in-your-face) -- BUT I don't think it will be good for Caitlyn herself, or for the family, really.

But, I guess they can all dry their tears with dollar bills.


----------



## BPC

Coco Belle said:


> You are right -- "these days" it is not politically correct to call trans* people mentally ill.
> 
> It's also not politically correct to call homosexual people mentally ill anymore.
> 
> Or to put women into insane asylums because they enjoy sex, or (GASP) masturbate.
> 
> I'm glad about all of those things. I think it's about time that everyone stopped having indefensible opinions about the contents of everyone else's drawers, and started accepting human beings in all their differences.
> 
> In time, science always seems to find out that our opinions were based on nonsense, so I would rather accept people as they appear to me for now - and assume that they are trying their best, as I am.
> 
> Maybe that's just me?



I'm not understanding who you're preaching to? Like I said, I don't care either way.

The entire reason I posted that article was only to point out that your post, much like these doctors that you're dismissing is an opinion. Psychology is not an exact science, there are no ultimate truths, and people will have differing opinions- including those in the mental health field. 
That was my whole point. I apologize for not making it clear.


----------



## guccimamma

i don't follow the espy awards in general...but disagree that he deserves anything.

bruce (that's what he seemed to be at the time) killed a woman on February 7th. 

i don't care if he is/was/has been transitioning...he caused a death just four months ago.  

how many people here have caused a death due to inattentive driving?? 

what if kris or kim did that? imagine the outcry.


----------



## pjhm

bag-mania said:


> She is 65. Same age as Caitlyn.




Linda recently wrote a very poignant article about how she kept his secret all these years until he came out publicly. She explains how much she loved him and how devastated she was when their marriage ended. Worth a read if you can find it.
After reading it, I wondered how he could marry a woman again and put another wife through such pain.


----------



## Coco Belle

BPC said:


> I'm not understanding who you're preaching to? Like I said, I don't care either way.
> 
> The entire reason I posted that article was only to point out that your post, much like these doctors that you're dismissing is an opinion. Psychology is not an exact science, there are no ultimate truths, and people will have differing opinions- including those in the mental health field.
> That was my whole point. I apologize for not making it clear.



Yes... everything is an opinion, and what we think of as "facts" tend to evolve and change over time.

But here's the thing: some opinions harm people who are already marginalized and in danger from the mainstream - like trans people. 

And then yet other opinions allow for a broader spectrum of people to live lives where they feel safe and respected.

I just always think it's a shame when someone pipes up to say "Don't worry all you people who think trans* people are mentally ill! You might be right! This one doctor says you are! Of course I don't have a stake in it, I'm _just saying_" 

it's like how much more insult do you need to add to injury. Congrats, you've helped trans* people feel even worse about themselves, and all for something that you don't even care about either way.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I totally agree. I was livid when I heard Lauren Hill was overlooked. That girl deserves it more than anyone. I hope people boycott ESPN. It's obvious why they're doing it. Strike while the fire is hot.


----------



## BPC

Coco Belle said:


> Yes... everything is an opinion, and what we think of as "facts" tend to evolve and change over time.
> 
> But here's the thing: some opinions harm people who are already marginalized and in danger from the mainstream - like trans people.
> 
> And then yet other opinions allow for a broader spectrum of people to live lives where they feel safe and respected.
> 
> I just always think it's a shame when someone pipes up to say "Don't worry all you people who think trans* people are mentally ill! You might be right! This one doctor says you are! Of course I don't have a stake in it, I'm _just saying_"
> 
> it's like how much more insult do you need to add to injury. Congrats, you've helped trans* people feel even worse about themselves, and all for something that you don't even care about either way.



 

wow.. girl.. bye..


----------



## SpeedyJC

Coach Lover Too said:


> I totally agree. I was livid when I heard Lauren Hill was overlooked. That girl deserves it more than anyone. I hope people boycott ESPN. It's obvious why they're doing it. Strike while the fire is hot.


 
Couldn't agree more with that one.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

BPC said:


> wow.. girl.. bye..



You could use your ignore button like Sassys did to me. Lol


----------



## lanasyogamama

SpeedyJC said:


> Many lawmakers are working on bills to ban transgendered individuals  from using the bathroom of their non birth sex.
> 
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ets-transgender-school-bathroom-use/22024709/
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article15120632.html
> 
> 
> http://rt.com/usa/239941-texas-transgender-bathroom-ban/



Speaking of bathrooms, there is a transgendered kid at my daughter's school.  Went to Kindy as a girl, 1st grade as a boy.  I asked my daughter what the kids thought, and she said the boys were a embarrassed to have him in the bathroom. 

It's tough, they're SO young.  And apparently the school isn't allowed to address the situation at all, so it's like they're trying to figure it out for themselves, which they're really too young to do, given we adults still struggle!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Talk amongst yoselves. 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caityln-jenner-sex-change-grandchildren-new-name/


----------



## poopsie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Talk amongst yoselves.
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caityln-jenner-sex-change-grandchildren-new-name/







Yep------talk amongst themselves, indeed. I'm outta here-----too busy trying to keep up with all the new memes.


----------



## lovemysavior

ByeKitty said:


> I disagree with both the tone of some responses and the tone of her posts. I felt like she has been very quick to brand those that disagree with her as holier-than-thou, politically correct, and Bruce fanclub members. She has just been more subtle in the way she formulated it than some of the people who responded to that.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your thoughtful post. Yes, people are killed for many reasons (religion, ethnicity...), but being hurt for being gay or transgender really is just as awful. I'm confident your religion makes no such distinction: hurting others is wrong, regardless of the exact motive. *Am I correct?* However, there are some religions out there that are prone to fundamentalist interpretations, and that can be dangerous.
> 
> Concerning your last sentence: I've seen this argument posted a few times here! From what I've seen, people who start the hormone treatments at a younger age can really change the shape of their figure and facial features. But of course there are always some things that could be "improved", they just may not need as many procedures as Bruce, who already had kind of a...flawed canvas before becoming Caitlyn.
> 
> 
> 
> But you're saying that while you have no idea what exactly has been going on with him, and when his transition truly ends. It just seems like you have a hard time accepting that Bruce just might actually _be_ a woman deep down. I do understand that that's a hard thing to wrap your mind around.
> 
> 
> My spiritual faith teaches me to love ALL as does my Creator and to love the sinner not the sin of which it includes me and my every day sins as well


----------



## skarsbabe

Coach Lover Too said:


> Talk amongst yoselves.
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caityln-jenner-sex-change-grandchildren-new-name/



Best comment on that article - "How about Tranma" 

 I was laughing


----------



## dangerouscurves

Every time I read posts in this thread, I'm glad I'm turning agnostic.


----------



## jellyv

Coco Belle said:


> Yes, it has to be this way because (see my next point...):
> 
> 
> 
> ... *genes* cannot be used to determine gender.
> We used to think that they could be - that's what many people's ideas are based on - BUT, we now have more scientific insight into this area, and we're realising that we were wrong.
> 
> We are now finding out that one's *brain* determines one's gender.




Genes determine one's sex. _Culture_ determines one's gender and attitudes about it. The brain is a wonderful thing, but it isn't a preloaded box of treats. That (false) idea dates back hundreds of years.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Bentley1 said:


> This thread has become so exhausting to participate in. So much snark and negativity at every turn, over every little thing.
> Frankly, I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that Bruce is now Caitlyn.
> Aside from that, I'm disgusted with the way she chose to "come out." Really?
> The only way it could have been any more distasteful, to me, is if she had bared all in Playboy as opposed to the lingerie she was wearing on VF. Tacky, thirsty, attention seeking, fameho. No different than the rest of the women in the family.
> I respect Bruce's journey and transition to Caitlyn, but this person has turned out to be an exceedingly selfish, unaware human being. Respecting Bruce's choice does not equate To blowing sunshine up Caitlyn's a@@ at every turn just to show support for her transition. I respect the choice, but I don't respect the person.



Late to this but E! is producing his new show, after all. I wonder if PMK will be on it...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

E entertainment... and people wonder why it's hard to take Ms. Jenner serious.


----------



## prettyprincess

Coco Belle said:


> Firstly, there's a logical error in your thinking, and a few facts you've glossed over:
> 
> Doctors do, usually, require some therapy before completing certain surgeries related to genitals/apparent sex (usually the irreversible ones).
> 
> This is for a number of reasons, including things like: does the person fully understand that they may not be able to bear children after this? Have they thought that through? Have they taken steps to mitigate any of those concerns? Do they have support after the surgery (since trans* people are still VERY vulnerable to violence and murder, both before and after surgery)? Have they worked things out with employers (since, again, discrimination, recovery time, etc.)? Are their families going to stand by them? Are they going to be abandoned? Do they have adequate education and emotional strength to stand up against people when they are called sick, ill, etc.? Do they live in an area where they might be more safe/understood (i.e., in an LGBTQ friendly neighbourhood)?
> 
> The logical error is this: You assume that because therapy is part of the journey, that the doctor thinks the patient is mentally ill. That is incorrect. Therapy is for everyone, whether they are mentally ill or not. It is generally intended to help people with traumatic transitions of all kinds. Trans* surgeries are traumatic _because other people do not accept or understand them_. Your own views and statements in this thread are a testament to the kind of thing that trans* people have to prepare themselves for.
> 
> Surgeons would generally want to also have a second opinion, via a psychologist or counsellor, that the patient does not have any other conditions (like, for example, schizophrenia) that may be causing a delusion that mimics the issues of a trans* person. Since, as of now, we have no scientifically verified way of checking to see what someone's gender is (since this area is evolving as we go along), we have to rely on the subjective but educated opinions of medical professionals to make that assessment.
> 
> That doesn't mean trans* people are mentally ill. It means that mentally ill people might, sometimes, think they are trans* -- just like they might think they have a club foot.



I didn't assume anything, a lot of the medical community regards this as a psychological condition. If you want to be selective about which opinions are valid, that is up to you. Also, you are the one that used the example of a club foot. I was addressing your comparison. So no, not every surgery that has to do with the body requires the same level of therapy. A hysterectomy doesn't require therapy for the same amount of time, or intensity, that reassignment surgery requires.


----------



## papertiger

Eva1991 said:


> She's not a woman because she simply says so, but because she *feels* like and identifies as a woman. Genetics don't determine who we are.
> 
> How would you call a woman who was born without a uterus or without ovaries, for example?  There are cases of women who were born without these organs but they're not any less of a woman than the rest of us.



Both points are debatable and are _ad nauseam_


----------



## ByeKitty

To me it's not about the scientific details behind the transgender phenomenon, the nature vs. nurture debate. It's basically a never ending discussion because neither point has really been proven. It's just that, working with the facts that are out there right now, I would propose using the same moral code in discussing all LGBT people.


----------



## BPC

byekitty said:


> to me it's not about the scientific details behind the transgender phenomenon, the nature vs. Nurture debate. It's basically a never ending discussion because neither point has really been proven. It's just that, working with the facts that are out there right now, i would propose using the same moral code in discussing all lgbt people.



I absolutely agree with this. At the same time, I also think it should be applied to children. I mean I've seen some pretty rude comments regarding kids here and I think we should use those same ethics when discussing them. Better yet, best not to discuss them at all. 

Not gonna happen though..


----------



## Charles

prettyprincess said:


> I see. So he is a woman simply because he declares it to be so? how come when people say that he's still a man because nothing has genetically changed, its offensive? Also, is it healthy that people who have this psychological condition? illness? are encouraged to manipulate their hormones and mutilate their bodies? It seems so extreme to me.



Psychological condition?  Illness?  Do you feel people who are homosexual have mental issues or have an illness?
What about people who choose to get plastic surgery such as breast augmentation, nose jobs, and face lifts?  Are they mutilating their bodies too?


----------



## littlerock

I love this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...oto_n_7515176.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

Critic Of Caitlyn Jenner's 'Bravery' Accidentally Teaches Himself A Lesson
The Huffington Post	 |  By	Lydia O'Connor
Email
Posted: 06/04/2015 7:30 pm EDT Updated: 9 minutes ago
CAITLYN JENNER SynergyByDesign | Flickr







A Facebook user who ridiculed Caitlyn Jenner in a popular post for lacking "real American courage, heroism, and bravery" by comparing her to World War Two soldiers taught himself an important lesson when he learned the real story behind the troops' picture.

Many have hailed Jenner for her courage to publicly come out as transgender after a lifetime of struggle in hopes of helping others who grapple with their gender identity, but there are plenty of haters spouting ignorance on social media. Luckily, there's a chance for the naysayers to see the light.

Terry Coffey of Salem, Oregon was one of them tearing down Jenner. On Monday, he posted an uncredited photo of two soldiers on Facebook and proclaimed that these men, not Jenner, define bravery.







> "As I see post after post about Bruce Jenner's transition to a woman, and I hear words like, bravery, heroism, and courage, just thought I'd remind all of us what real American courage, heroism, and bravery looks like!"




Coffey's post quickly picked up steam and has been shared nearly 800,000 times. Hoping to offer the photographer credit on his popular post, he went in search of the shutterbug's name and made a discovery that shook his concept of courage.

The men in the photo are actually toy figurines staged by Mark Hogancamp, who was beaten nearly to death in 2000... for dressing as a woman.

Coffey detailed his realization in a second, humbling post on Tuesday.



> The photo that accompanied my words yesterday to highlight "true bravery," was chosen from a quick image search. Just wanted something to fit my words. This afternoon, I wanted to find out who the photographer was, so I could credit his work.
> In an ironic twist, I have discovered that the photo is part of a documentary created by a man who was beaten nearly to death outside of a bar in 2000.
> After spending 9 days in a coma, suffering severe brain damage and being unable to walk or talk for a year, he chose to deal with the pain of the tragic event, by creating an imaginary world of characters and photos and stories, all set in WWII. His work is the subject of an upcoming documentary.
> Why was he nearly beaten to death by 5 strangers?
> Because he was a cross-dresser.
> I could have chosen any one of hundreds of photos depicting bravery, but I chose this one. Do I think it was an accident?
> No, I don't.
> What happened to this man was cruel, wrong, and unforgivable.
> Hate helps nothing
> Love wounds no one
> and God heals all.
> (and irony makes you think)
> 90 Likes · 31 Comments · 984 Shares




The "upcoming" documentary Coffey mentions was actually released in 2010 and is viewable on the Sundance Now Doc Club. You can watch the trailer below.


----------



## BPC

I saw that posted by on FB yesterday. Rolled my eyes the entire time. I should find it and let my "friends' know what it was..lol..


----------



## papertiger

ByeKitty said:


> To me it's not about the scientific details behind the transgender phenomenon, the nature vs. nurture debate. It's basically a never ending discussion because neither point has really been proven. It's just that, working with the facts that are out there right now, *I would propose using the same moral code in discussing all LGBT people.*



Who is writing these moral codes? Even members of the LGTB community can't agree, nor do many want to be lumped together as part of any community that have a defined moral code, but would rather like to be thought of as a unique individual. 

Using the word 'moral' is rather loaded in this context 

I'm rather feeling the irony of asking people to stay within the confines of prescribed moral codes in a debate about transgender people. 

From Miranda Yardley 

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d78a-What-does-it-mean-to-be-Caitlyn#.VXIDNWRVikr



> ON MONDAY June 1, we experienced Bruce Jenner&#8217;s big reveal. Vanity Fair magazine released its July cover image of the former athlete and reality star formerly known as Bruce Jenner, with the catchily alliterative headline &#8220;Call me Caitlyn.&#8221;
> Jenner, who is perfectly styled and posed, is expertly photographed by Annie Leibovitz and lovingly post-produced. The magazine itself promises a 22-page cover story penned by Buzz Bessinger, which also reveals details of Jenner&#8217;s uncertainty following 10 hours of facial surgery and the reaction of Jenner&#8217;s children upon seeing their father&#8217;s breast augmentation. There is even a video documentary of the &#8220;emotional two-day photo shoot.&#8221;
> The image itself is masterful. The initial impact, with neutral colouration, emphasises the sheer amount of flesh on display. Jenner is depicted in an elegant corset, posed elegantly on a stool in the corner, arms behind the back and a cutesy ever-so-coy submissive look. What have we caught naughty Caitlyn doing?
> This is a pose designed to lead the eye on a journey, to explore Jenner&#8217;s body, to admire this 65-year-old&#8217;s marvellous physique. This is the new image this incredibly wealthy and successful **********-voting reality superstar has wrought from the millions of dollars they have earned over the last four and a half decades.
> Make no mistake, Jenner&#8217;s story is extraordinary: a life of hard work, dedication and seizing every opportunity for fulfilment and fame has, by all accounts, meant it has taken until halfway through Jenner&#8217;s seventh decade to announce to the world &#8220;this is who I am.&#8221; To reach this point, there have been years of speculation, as well as facial (and likely hairline) surgery and breast augmentation (it is interesting to note that, apparently, Jenner is yet to &#8220;go all the way&#8221; and has not as yet had genital realignment surgery). Within this context, how are we supposed to view Jenner&#8217;s suggestion that &#8220;this is the real me,&#8221; that this is the person they always have been?
> High-profile &#8220;coming out&#8221; stories are applauded by columnists proclaiming the new transitioner has &#8220;always been a woman.&#8221; This happened last year with Kellie Maloney and is happening now with Caitlyn Jenner.
> Between them, Jenner and Maloney have been married at least five times and fathered eight children. Both have made enormous fortunes as men, each enjoying over six decades of male privilege before so boldly staking their claim to womanhood. If each these trans women have &#8220;always been a woman,&#8221; how does this relate to the lived lives and experiences of that 52 per cent of the population who are born and raised as women?
> In April&#8217;s interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC news programme 20/20, Jenner claimed ownership of a &#8220;female brain.&#8221; The existence of inherently different male and female brains is hardly a settled matter and there is no significant generally accepted evidence that points to neurological differences in males and females that would explain, for example, an affinity for pink or wanting to wear a dress or makeup.
> These, of course, are all cultural artifacts and are meaningless without context. Society has a set of rules which governs what is acceptable for men and women to do, and this is called &#8220;gender.&#8221; Gender is not something we &#8220;have,&#8221; rather it is a set of behaviours that we are expected to follow based on our birth sex.
> These same rules apply in Jenner&#8217;s apparent shift from the powerful male role model, to the shy, deferential seductress we see in Vanity Fair.
> Gender is not a civil liberty, it is a set of social codes, and this is what gender does: gender disempowers women.
> Jenner is not a &#8220;gender outlaw&#8221; breaking down boundaries and a mechanism for positive change. Jenner represents the status quo, in opposition to the positive, progressive force and changes that decades of women&#8217;s suffrage and activism have fought for.
> We can view this image of Jenner as being not &#8220;a man becoming a woman&#8221; (itself a contentious and somewhat counterfactual statement) but as &#8220;a man becoming a man&#8217;s idea of what a woman should be.&#8221;
> This is writ large over the Vanity Fair cover: an idealised body is presented clothed only in lingerie, the makeup is done to perfection, and every flaw is magically Photoshopped out of existence. Pandering to the male gaze, the body language is coy, seductive, submissive. This is not liberation, this is not revolution, this is not life-affirming. This is the crass stereotyping of what it means to be a woman, meeting every reactionary, culturally conservative ideal of what a woman should be &#8212; passive, objectified, dehumanised.
> Can we honestly say that this is someone who has come to terms with themselves, with who they are, if to attain this takes so much surgical intervention? Is the sum total of what this image is representative of what it means to be a women?
> Although it is 2015, we still inhabit a society in which women are paid barely 75 per cent of what male colleagues receive. The woman&#8217;s world is full of permanently locked doors, locked for no reason of ability or aptitude or lack of hard work. Women are still expected to defer to men, who themselves are conditioned to believe every woman exists to make their life more comfortable.
> The dehumanisation of women is ritualised in porn, strip bars, and &#8220;sex work.&#8221; The very existence of these is not some kind of edgy, funky empowering movement that makes women&#8217;s lives more meaningful, liberated and comfortable; rather these are the very tools that male supremacy uses to keep women poor, needy and in their place.
> Jenner&#8217;s life has, for the most part, been privileged. So why then do we have this fetishised sexist image of what it means to be female? Is this what it means to be Caitlyn? Where is the strong, successful role model that Jenner surely once was?
> There is much talk in the transgender movement about liberation, although how this is supposed to be attained through dehumanisation and objectification is beyond me. In a time when women are fighting to be taken seriously and be seen as human beings rather than sex objects, Jenner now appears anachronistic, a relic of a bygone age.
> I seriously question the value of Jenner as a role model, with means and methods of transition that are, like Jenner&#8217;s life, stellar distances from the resources of most human beings. The sincerity of this whole stage-managed affair diminishes given Jenner&#8217;s political allegiances.
> Presumably equality for gay people did not figure highly enough when Jenner was deciding for whom to vote. Let us not forget also that Jenner is facing a wrongful death lawsuit for the demise of Kim Howe following a multi-vehicle collision in February this year.
> There are many opportunities for trans people to live happy, fulfilling lives and to contribute positively to society. We do not need to depend on sexist concepts like &#8220;female brains&#8221; to be loved or accepted, or to conform to damaging stereotypes. More so, we are not required to pander to the male gaze to obtain validation of who and what we are.
> A struggle we do share with women is the need to be taken seriously and seen as human beings, not novelties that exist for the entertainment of others. Self-acceptance is not something we get from a surgeon&#8217;s knife or from hypersexualisation. We attain this by coming to terms with who and what we are.
> As people, we can be forward-looking and meet the challenges that life gives us, be ourselves, be happy and be successful. We do not need Caitlyn Jenner to enable us do this.
> 
> Miranda Yardley is a trans woman and publisher of Terrorizer magazine.


----------



## Charles

papertiger said:


> Who is writing these moral codes? Even members of the LGTB community can't agree, nor do many want to be lumped together as part of any community that have a defined moral code, but would rather like to be thought of as a unique individual.
> 
> Using the word 'moral' is rather loaded in this context
> 
> I'm rather feeling the irony of asking people to stay within the confines of prescribed moral codes in a debate about transgender people.
> http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d78a-What-does-it-mean-to-be-Caitlyn#.VXIDNWRVikr



There will always be people who don't agree with how the majority of people prefer to be referred to...and that's fine.  Those people don't negate the preferences of the majority.  That's why the one of the first "guidelines" mentioned is that if you're not sure, ask.  "So, as a transgendered person....wait, is it OK if I call you that?  No?  What would you prefer me to call you..."  It's not hard.


----------



## Coco Belle

papertiger said:


> Who is writing these moral codes? Even members of the LGTB community can't agree, nor do many want to be lumped together as part of any community that have a defined moral code, but would rather like to be thought of as a unique individual.
> 
> Using the word 'moral' is rather loaded in this context
> 
> I'm rather feeling the irony of asking people to stay within the confines of prescribed moral codes in a debate about transgender people.
> 
> From Miranda Yardley
> 
> http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d78a-What-does-it-mean-to-be-Caitlyn#.VXIDNWRVikr


 
Lots of food for thought in this article. I wish for the day when gender is broken down so much that we can just say "hey I love this dress" and then wear it, regardless of chomosomes.

I also wish for a day when showing one's body in public is no longer codified as "making a spectacle" or "being outrageous" or "self-objectification" or whatever -- but just as a celebration of the beauty of human sexuality and the human form. 

I like looking at male bodies; but our society insists that only women are ornamental, so men ought to hide themselves or risk being told they're not manly anymore. Is that causing a small subset of men to feel that they are actually women, perhaps because they have strong urges to be ornamental and beautiful, but don't feel they are permitted that right? Who knows? For now I try to err on the side of compassion and acceptance.

Basically, I wish we could take the Victorian era back... sigh. Maybe more than that.

Right now I think we're in a hinterland, where we're not there yet at all -- so making choices to go against the rules of appearing as a "man" or a "woman" has to be A BIG THING where everyone frothes at the mouth and debates ad nauseaum about whether it's OK, gross, good, bad, etc. etc. etc.


----------



## ByeKitty

papertiger said:


> Who is writing these moral codes? Even members of the LGTB community can't agree, nor do many want to be lumped together as part of any community that have a defined moral code, but would rather like to be thought of as a unique individual.
> 
> Using the word 'moral' is rather loaded in this context
> 
> I'm rather feeling the irony of asking people to stay within the confines of prescribed moral codes in a debate about transgender people.
> 
> From Miranda Yardley
> 
> http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d78a-What-does-it-mean-to-be-Caitlyn#.VXIDNWRVikr



You know, if it was that simple this thread would be much shorter. I said "moral code" because I used the same term some days ago here. Of course each person has different perceptions of what is ok and what isn't and it's impossible to "satisfy" everyone. Personally, I would say we shouldn't be too tense in terms of "what words to use"... I mean if someone slips up and says "he" I wouldn't say that's super offensive by default.

With some issues, it's rather clear to me though. Comments like "Bruce will never be a woman" or "I don't want someone like Bruce in a women's bathroom, gross" are crossing a line to me. They're not curious, they don't stimulate any type of constructive debate, they're just negative.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Charles said:


> Psychological condition?  Illness?  Do you feel people who are homosexual have mental issues or have an illness?
> What about people who choose to get plastic surgery such as breast augmentation, nose jobs, and face lifts?  Are they mutilating their bodies too?




[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


----------



## dangerouscurves

ByeKitty said:


> You know, if it was that simple this thread would be much shorter. I said "moral code" because I used the same term some days ago here. Of course each person has different perceptions of what is ok and what isn't and it's impossible to "satisfy" everyone. Personally, I would say we shouldn't be too tense in terms of "what words to use"... I mean if someone slips up and says "he" I wouldn't say that's super offensive by default.
> 
> 
> 
> With some issues, it's rather clear to me though. Comments like "Bruce will never be a woman" or "I don't want someone like Bruce in a women's bathroom, gross" are crossing a line to me. They're not curious, they don't stimulate any type of constructive debate, they're just negative.




Thank you!


----------



## Eva1991

ByeKitty said:


> You know, if it was that simple this thread would be much shorter. I said "moral code" because I used the same term some days ago here. Of course each person has different perceptions of what is ok and what isn't and it's impossible to "satisfy" everyone. Personally, I would say we shouldn't be too tense in terms of "what words to use"... I mean if someone slips up and says "he" I wouldn't say that's super offensive by default.
> 
> With some issues, it's rather clear to me though.* Comments like "Bruce will never be a woman" or "I don't want someone like Bruce in a women's bathroom, gross" are crossing a line to me. They're not curious, they don't stimulate any type of constructive debate, they're just negative*.



+100000

If someone feels "grossed" about transgender people using the restroom of the gender they identify with, then, IMO, they are the ones who have a problem they need to solve and not the transgender person. It's 2015 and times have changed. I get that some people need to take time to process all this new information but not fully understanding something (like gender dysphoria) doesn't mean not accepting it exists and not supporting the people who have it.


----------



## prettyprincess

Charles said:


> Psychological condition?  Illness?  Do you feel people who are homosexual have mental issues or have an illness?
> What about people who choose to get plastic surgery such as breast augmentation, nose jobs, and face lifts?  Are they mutilating their bodies too?




If a regular person decided to chop off their body parts, have multiple surgeries on their face, pump their body full of hormones, would you consider that normal behavior? Or would you suggest that the person seek out treatment so that they could learn to be happy with themselves rather than have radical surgery to change their appearance. And if body parts don't define gender why do trans people get breast implants and vaginas?


----------



## blackkitty4378

Even if it were a mental illness, so what? Why is there still so much stigma about mental illness?

I understand why, because homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness and now we're finding out it's not.

I still wish mental illness wasn't considered a negative thing.


----------



## B. Jara

Charles said:


> Psychological condition?  Illness?  Do you feel people who are homosexual have mental issues or have an illness?
> What about people who choose to get plastic surgery such as breast augmentation, nose jobs, and face lifts?  Are they mutilating their bodies too?




As far as general "cosmetic" plastic surgery goes and not TG surgery, I don't think it's a valid comparison. 

Check out the real self website. There is a whole section on breast explanation with real life stories. 

I'll probably regret posting this but what the heck. Perhaps it will help someone. I found the site while I was searching for info prior to my own explant surgery. Do I regret the decision I made 10 years ago to have augmentation? Yes. Do I feel as though I mutilated my body for vanity and/or self esteem issues? Now I do. 

I was in a different place mentally at that time and I felt very strongly prior ( for years) that augmentation would make me feel better about myself. I HATED them within a few short years afterward. I am so much happier, scars and all, with my original self. 

Now that I think about it, perhaps it is a worthy comparison...food for thought, anyway.


----------



## papertiger

Coco Belle said:


> Lots of food for thought in this article. I wish for the day when gender is broken down so much that we can just say "hey I love this dress" and then wear it, regardless of chomosomes.
> 
> I also wish for a day when showing one's body in public is no longer codified as "making a spectacle" or "being outrageous" or "self-objectification" or whatever -- but just as a celebration of the beauty of human sexuality and the human form.
> 
> I like looking at male bodies; but our society insists that only women are ornamental, so men ought to hide themselves or risk being told they're not manly anymore. Is that causing a small subset of men to feel that they are actually women, perhaps because they have strong urges to be ornamental and beautiful, but don't feel they are permitted that right? Who knows? For now I try to err on the side of compassion and acceptance.
> 
> Basically, I wish we could take the Victorian era back... sigh. Maybe more than that.
> 
> Right now I think we're in a hinterland, where we're not there yet at all -- so making choices to go against the rules of appearing as a "man" or a "woman" has to be A BIG THING where everyone frothes at the mouth and debates ad nauseaum about whether it's OK, gross, good, bad, etc. etc. etc.



All worthwhile points to think about *CB*


----------



## papertiger

ByeKitty said:


> You know, if it was that simple this thread would be much shorter. *I said "moral code" because I used the same term some days ago here. Of course each person has different perceptions of what is ok and what isn't and it's impossible to "satisfy" everyone.* Personally, I would say we shouldn't be too tense in terms of "what words to use"... I mean if someone slips up and says "he" I wouldn't say that's super offensive by default.
> 
> With some issues, it's rather clear to me though. Comments like "Bruce will never be a woman" or "I don't want someone like Bruce in a women's bathroom, gross" are crossing a line to me. They're not curious, they don't stimulate any type of constructive debate, they're just negative.



Ah OK, understood


----------



## papertiger

Charles said:


> There will always be people who don't agree with how the majority of people prefer to be referred to...and that's fine.  Those people don't negate the preferences of the majority.  That's why the one of the first "guidelines" mentioned is that if you're not sure, ask.  "So, as a transgendered person....wait, is it OK if I call you that?  No?  What would you prefer me to call you..."  It's not hard.



True but as you post suggests, it's better to ask the actual person one is talking about rather than consult an Internet site written by someone who may live thousands of miles away, living an alternative lifestlye and come from a different generation and background. No two people are the same, whatever category internet word-searches has decided they fit into.


----------



## mistikat

prettyprincess said:


> If a regular person decided to chop off their body parts, have multiple surgeries on their face, pump their body full of hormones, would you consider that normal behavior? Or would you suggest that the person seek out treatment so that they could learn to be happy with themselves rather than have radical surgery to change their appearance. And if body parts don't define gender why do trans people get breast implants and vaginas?



Why should someone learn to be happy with something that they feel is not fundamentally who they are if there are remedies for that? To me it's like telling someone who was born with half a leg to learn to get used to it and love themselves the way they are instead of using a prosthesis. 

I am not transgender so I don't pretend to know how people who are feel about it. I do know I am fortunate to be able to present to the world who I am without fear of being ridiculed or judged or worse, and that when I say, Hello, and give my name, people use it and don't question it or my right to use it.

Therefore, I equally don't feel I have the right to question or judge or approve of people who have gender dysphoria about whether or not they should be happy in their present (or future) state. It's something that only they can and should be able to decide for themselves with whatever support network they have. My only role is to respect who they present themselves as, as they would me.


----------



## papertiger

B. Jara said:


> As far as general "cosmetic" plastic surgery goes and not TG surgery, I don't think it's a valid comparison.
> 
> Check out the real self website. There is a whole section on breast explanation with real life stories.
> 
> I'll probably regret posting this but what the heck. Perhaps it will help someone. I found the site while I was searching for info prior to my own explant surgery. Do I regret the decision I made 10 years ago to have augmentation? Yes. Do I feel as though I mutilated my body for vanity and/or self esteem issues? Now I do.
> 
> I was in a different place mentally at that time and I felt very strongly prior ( for years) that augmentation would make me feel better about myself. I HATED them within a few short years afterward. I am so much happier, scars and all, with my original self.
> 
> Now that I think about it, perhaps it is a worthy comparison...food for thought, anyway.



Thank you for sharing that. Some may think it's OT but I think it's valid. I'm glad that you are happier now. 

It just goes to show that we can do things for the best reasons at the time that we do them, even life-altering ones, but we don't know if we'll regret it or it will ultimately make us more at peace with ourselves (one definition of happiness). 

With multiple marriages behind Caitlin it's evident that she has made life-decisions she's come to regret in the past, so I hope that this one 'to be herself' will be right for her. There is no divorce from oneself.


----------



## Luvbolide

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I do think it's brave to do what she's doing so publicly, but I don't think it was the right award for her.  A lot of people have talked about how Lauren HIll deserved it.
> It's in a lot of news and private conversations actually.  This was the first hit when I googled it:
> 
> *Doc to ESPYs: Lauren Hill's courage trumps Cait Jenner's
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'd hate to think that ESPN's decision to honor the newly minted Caitlyn Jenner with the ESPY's Arthur Ashe Courage Award was anything other than altruistic. Bruce becoming Caitlyn was a courageous act that will benefit all who face similar circumstances.
> 
> The fact that Jenner was instantly recognizable before her announcement last month didn't have anything to do with the sports network's decision to honor her, did it? Did it?
> 
> Jenner is tabloid manna. Jenner is ratings gold. People who never before watched the ESPYs  people who didn't know the ESPYs from ESP  now will tune in to perform the TV version of rubbernecking. On Wednesday, E! Entertainment released the first promo video for Caitlyn's upcoming reality show, "I Am Cait''.
> 
> A reality show, for Caitlyn Jenner? Ya don't say.
> 
> Meantime, Lauren Hill was a real-life reality show that E! Entertainment wouldn't have touched. There was nothing to Lauren worth gawking at. She wasn't a Kardashian, she didn't faux-survive in a bikini on a tropical island. She was not, thank god, a housewife of Beverly Hills. Reality television is to reality what botox is to real faces.
> 
> Lauren Hill was just a kid who died. She was just an earth angel, whose poise and selflessness provided everyone in America with a road map to grace. We didn't see her "applying make-up to her face'' as we will Caitlyn, according to a story on the website BusinessInsider.com.
> 
> We didn't see Lauren putting on lipstick and saying, "You start learning the pressure women are under all the time about their appearance," as Caitlyn says. We heard Lauren saying after a basketball game, "Today has been the best day I've ever had.''
> 
> A month or so before she died, Lauren said this:
> 
> "I ask God for a cure for cancer and that my family will be fine when and if I'm gone. They are who I worry about. My family and my friends.''
> 
> Enquirer columnist Paul Daugherty reflects on Lauren Hill's short, but impactful life. The Mount Saint Joseph freshman inspired thousands across the world. She saw the end of her life as the beginning of something bigger. The Enquirer/Carrie Cochran
> 
> Quite possibly, that is more courageous than wondering if the black hose will go with the red dress. Caitlyn Jenner is courage personified. But not without a little bit of Hollywood narcissism.
> 
> Look, it's not that I don't admire the former Bruce Jenner. It isn't that I don't feel compassion for the new Caitlyn. All the best. What you've done has taken more guts than winning a decathlon, or appearing on TV with any number of self-absorbed, brain cell-starved Kardashians.
> 
> It's going to be a tough trail to blaze. Good luck.
> 
> Is it more courageous than what Lauren Hill did?
> 
> Let me be the first to answer that:
> 
> Not in a million lifetimes.
> 
> Ask yourself this: Would you rather know you were living a false life? Or that you'd be dead in a few months? Who gets the better end of that deal?
> 
> Jenner is free to change the world, perhaps for decades. Lauren had about a year and a half, from when she was first diagnosed.
> 
> Jenner has lived a full life: Olympic hero, endorsing machine, sex symbol, TV celebrity, Wheaties man. Lauren lived less than 20 years.
> 
> Lauren did what she did entirely without guile. She didn't seek a stage, except when she knew the stage would help others. She was just Lauren Hill from Lawrenceburg, IN, who loved her family and basketball and who suffered terrible physical pain in the hope that, someday, other kids wouldn't have to.
> 
> Bruce-turned-Caitlyn has lived a life of emotional pain, possibly made worse by Bruce's celebrity status. As ESPN's release notes, "(Caitlyn) has shown the courage to embrace a truth that had been hidden for years, and to embark on a journey that may not only give comfort to those facing similar circumstances, but can also help to educate people on the challenges that the transgender community faces."
> 
> And yet, Caitlyn made her announcement on national TV, in prime time. She will have a reality show  eight, one-hour segments  that will attract as many peepers as those legitimately concerned. Put it this way: TMZ wasn't interested in Lauren Hill.
> 
> Some of us see rare courage and heroism as something other than appearing on national television applying makeup. The attention paid would have made Lauren Hill blush.
> 
> Is this politically impolite? Maybe. It's certainly PC for ESPN to jump on the CaitlynWagon and cheer. It's certainly easier to honor someone the world recognizes. It's no leap of ratings faith to declare Caitlyn Jenner more worthy of a courage trophy than Lauren Hill.
> 
> That doesn't make it right. Not at all.
> 
> http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...rage-award-should-go-to-lauren-hill/28428797/





Hallelujah to that!!  I have a personal test for Caitlyn - will she seek a waiver from her fancy-schmanxy golf club to be able to hang out in the all-male grill - formerly her favorite spot?  Or will she give some thought to the issue of no women being permitted in that room and take on the club over it's policies toward women?  Pretty sure I know the answer...


----------



## Luvbolide

SpeedyJC said:


> Legally Caitlyn is male. Caitlyn will be legally male unless she has the full transitional surgery. For example if Caitlyn was found to be criminally at fault for that fatal accident she would be housed with men while in jail. If she was fully transitioned she would be with females as far as my knowledge. I have posted this but I saw the question come up again so I figure id post it again.





I think this is generally true, except that there are  12 states and about 125 cities with stronger protections for transgenders.  Haven't researched this, but I would expect California (and probably SF and LA) to be among them.


----------



## SpeedyJC

Luvbolide said:


> I think this is generally true, except that there are  12 states and about 125 cities with stronger protections for transgenders.  Haven't researched this, but I would expect California (and probably SF and LA) to be among them.




Interesting I found this info on SF county jail. What I take from it is if the transgender inmate has the gender they identify with on their ID they can be housed with that gender. If they do not have ID that matches  and have not been fully transitioned they are housed in protective units (which I figured they would be in PC of some sorts)  of their birth sex and if they have transitioned they are housed with their identifiable sex. Am I understanding that correctly? I wonder if it's possible for one to have their ID changed to their identifiable sex without having surgery? 

Now that I think about I am pretty sure LA County jail (men's jail) has an entire unit just for gay/ transgender inmates. 



> .   II.&#8203;Housing: According to California law, a jail must implement a classification plan that includes segregating inmates on the basis of sex., The regulation requiring the classification plan does not define &#8220;sex&#8221;.  At the time of the creation of these protocols, if jail staff determined that an inmate had &#8220;male&#8221; genitalia, that inmate was assigned to the men&#8217;s housing.  If the jail staff determined that the inmate did not have &#8220;male&#8221; genitalia, then the inmate was assigned to the women&#8217;s housing.
> 
> a.&#8203;Assigning Transgender Inmates to Housing:  All transgender inmates in San Francisco County jails will be assigned housing based on their gender identity, not their genitalia. Housing status will be determined first by referring to the inmate&#8217;s official identification (e.g., driver&#8217;s license), and the inmate will be housed according to the gender marker if the official identification is consistent with the inmate&#8217;s gender presentation.
> 
> &#8203;If there is no updated or consistent I.D., then jail staff will ask the inmate whether she or he is female or male, and house accordingly.  If the transgender inmate identifies as male and has had genital surgery, he will be housed in the male unit.  For those transgender men who have not had genital surgery, the county will house them in a vulnerable male unit.  If the transgender inmate identifies as female, she will be housed in the female section. For those transgender women who have not had genital surgery, the county is allowed to house them in a vulnerable female unit.
> 
> &#8203;&#8203;If the inmate expresses uncertainty about her or his gender, then that inmate will be evaluated by a social worker or psychologist to determine appropriate housing.
> 
> http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resources/sfprisonguidelines.doc


----------



## ChanelMommy

I'm over all the publicity for this. it's everywhereeeee lol


----------



## gottaluvmybags

I'm grateful for those with more knowledge and understanding of the transgender issues posts.

Why is it so hard to refer to someone as they prefer to be addressed?  Would it be ok to refuse to call someone by their married name because you don't agree with same sex marriage?  If we had never met Bruce and only knew Caitlyn we would refer to her as Caitlyn - some reluctantly but it wouldn't be so darn difficult.  The ridicule is absurd - why be so hung up on calling her Bruce?  Or joking about Brucelyn?  People may think it's harmless or they are being funny but it just comes off as intolerant - just as you would if you used the N word.

It's not your journey to accept or denounce .  I have uncles and aunts who are gay and at 50+ yrs old won't come out.  My uncle's film got a huge award in Cannes and he can't even be open walking the carpet with who he wants because my grandma would lose it - they call him "eccentric".

I say do YOU and what makes YOU happy.  We'll be marching in the LA pride parade in support for those that are still oppressed and abused.


----------



## dangerouscurves

prettyprincess said:


> If a regular person decided to chop off their body parts, have multiple surgeries on their face, pump their body full of hormones, would you consider that normal behavior? Or would you suggest that the person seek out treatment so that they could learn to be happy with themselves rather than have radical surgery to change their appearance. And if body parts don't define gender why do trans people get breast implants and vaginas?




Yes, it is the normal behavior to treat transgender. Transgender people will never be happy and accept themselves until they have the gender they associate themselves to. There's sex and there's gender, until these two are aligned, transgender people will not find peace and happiness.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Well, this lady Treechada Pecharat was a male-to-female transgender who is now a woman. Would you still say she's a man? I know I wouldn't. For me she's a woman through and through.


----------



## Bentley1

dangerouscurves said:


> Well, this lady Treechada Pecharat was a male-to-female transgender who is now a woman. Would you still say she's a man? I know I wouldn't. For me she's a woman through and through.
> View attachment 3021976




She is stunning!


----------



## Jayne1

dangerouscurves said:


> Well, this lady Treechada Pecharat was a male-to-female transgender who is now a woman. Would you still say she's a man? I know I wouldn't. For me she's a woman through and through.
> View attachment 3021976



I wonder if she had all that facial feminization surgery as well, other than her nose. I wonder if some don't need anything, other than the nose.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Hinaleimoana Wong-Kalu

http://www.expression808.com/home/2014/8/6/hinaleimoana-wong-kalu-a-woman-of-the-people.html

I would encourage anyone to watch the film Kumu Hina. It is not about her transition specifically, but it is a really interesting perspective on some issues of gender identity told in the context of her life as a teacher of hula in a Native Hawaiian immersion charter school. And will also give a little insight into the fact that some of our rigid gender/sexuality/gender identity constructs are historically far more fluid in other cultures.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> I wonder if she had all that facial feminization surgery as well, other than her nose. I wonder if some don't need anything, other than the nose.




She took female hormones when she was very young. If she did have face feminization surgery it might just have been the removal of Adam's apple.


----------



## dangerouscurves

CobaltBlu said:


> Hinaleimoana Wong-Kalu
> 
> http://www.expression808.com/home/2014/8/6/hinaleimoana-wong-kalu-a-woman-of-the-people.html
> 
> I would encourage anyone to watch the film Kumu Hina. It is not about her transition specifically, but it is a really interesting perspective on some issues of gender identity told in the context of her life as a teacher of hula in a Native Hawaiian immersion charter school. And will also give a little insight into the fact that some of our rigid gender/sexuality/gender identity constructs are historically far more fluid in other cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3022176




Interesting lady. What I dislike is when someone doesn't understand or refuse to understand the transgender people, they think 'Oh he just decided to be a woman!'. No one decides to be the gender that is the opposite of your sex overnight. And also the 'You have to learn to love your self' as if being transgender was similar to being ugly. SMH.


----------



## AEGIS

lanasyogamama said:


> Speaking of bathrooms, there is a transgendered kid at my daughter's school.  Went to Kindy as a girl, 1st grade as a boy.  I asked my daughter what the kids thought, and she said the boys were a embarrassed to have him in the bathroom.
> 
> It's tough, they're SO young.  And apparently the school isn't allowed to address the situation at all, so it's like they're trying to figure it out for themselves, which they're really too young to do, given we adults still struggle!



In 1st grade? naaahhhh


----------



## labelwhore04

dangerouscurves said:


> Well, this lady Treechada Pecharat was a male-to-female transgender who is now a woman. Would you still say she's a man? I know I wouldn't. For me she's a woman through and through.
> View attachment 3021976



I was shocked that she is transgender. She looks more feminine than most born-females!


----------



## kittenslingerie

AEGIS said:


> In 1st grade? naaahhhh



Yeah, first grade seems a little early. Each parent can parent how they choose, but my first grade son will not be dressing like a girl anytime in the near future. I buy the clothes and they will be male clothes. (Not that he's asked  to dress any other way. But until he can buy them, not happening.)


----------



## dangerouscurves

Well, someone can feel that they are transgender or not as early as they can remember. If I had a son and he's diagnosed to be transgender I'd buy him clothes that he feels comfortable with and I'll have him start the hormones therapy as early as possible. I think this will save him a lot of trouble growing up.


----------



## bag-mania

AEGIS said:


> In 1st grade? naaahhhh




There's no way a six-year-old's brain has developed enough where he or she should be allowed to make a decision as important as that. I'm guessing it was the parents' influence at work.


----------



## Eva1991

I don't think that a kid so young knows for sure they weren't assigned the right gender at birth; they don't even know what gender actually means! They may feel differently than most of their peers that belong to the same gender which could be an indicator of gender dysphoria but they should wait a few more years to start the process of transition. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

CobaltBlu said:


> Hinaleimoana Wong-Kalu
> 
> http://www.expression808.com/home/2014/8/6/hinaleimoana-wong-kalu-a-woman-of-the-people.html
> 
> I would encourage anyone to watch the film Kumu Hina. It is not about her transition specifically, but it is a really interesting perspective on some issues of gender identity told in the context of her life as a teacher of hula in a Native Hawaiian immersion charter school. And will also give a little insight into the fact that some of our rigid gender/sexuality/gender identity constructs are historically far more fluid in other cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3022176



This is very similar to the culture in Samoa, where my husband and I lived and ran a boutique resort for two years on Savai'i.

Samoa has a third gender, fa'afafine. Men who are raised as women or who identify as women.

They can still take on male roles but embrace the female sexuality. They are an important part of Samoan culture.

There's a great story and video here: http://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/69073318/caitlyn-jenner-shines-a-light-on-samoan-faafafine


----------



## Encore Hermes

_Waits for Seth MacFarlane to speak out_

Your secrets are safe with Full House alum Dave Coulier. The actor recently revealed that he has kept a friend&#8217;s secret for 25 years, and that friend is Caitlyn Jenner!

In a radio interview, Coulier revealed, &#8220;I haven&#8217;t said this publicly, but Bruce Jenner, he was really good friends with my ex-wife, and I knew this 25 years ago&#8230; My ex-wife always told me Bruce wanted to be Nicky Jenner.&#8221; he said. &#8220;I&#8217;ve never really said this in the media before so wow I&#8217;m breaking this big story on your show.&#8221;

Coulier added that he was not surprised when Bruce revealed that he would be transitioning. &#8220;I did a show with Bruce called Skating with Celebrities on Fox several years ago,&#8221; Coulier explained. &#8220;I knew that information but I never vocalized it to anybody other than just close friends. When I saw him I saw that he had gone through a little bit of constructive surgery&#8230; I thought &#8216;I wonder if he&#8217;s actually going to do this.'&#8221;
http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/dave-coulier-knew-bruce-jenner-transgender-25-years-ago/


----------



## CobaltBlu

Jump right on that bandwagon, Dave!!


----------



## pukasonqo

FreeSpirit71 said:


> This is very similar to the culture in Samoa, where my husband and I lived and ran a boutique resort for two years on Savai'i.
> 
> 
> 
> Samoa has a third gender, fa'afafine. Men who are raised as women or who identify as women.
> 
> 
> 
> They can still take on male roles but embrace the female sexuality. They are an important part of Samoan culture.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a great story and video here: http://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/69073318/caitlyn-jenner-shines-a-light-on-samoan-faafafine




thanks! i was wondering about polinesian cultures as they seem to be more open to the idea of a third gender
not a sociologist or anthropologist but seems that, in many cultures, the definition of gender is quite fluid which makes me wonder if our own definition of gender is a judeo-christian construction (will leave islam and buddhism out as i admit i have no idea about them)
when i was a teen i enjoyed being confused for a boy as this gave me freedom not to conform to expected female  behaviours, i sort of grew out of it around the time i turned 17 and something similar happened with my son; like  me he enjoyed dressing in the opposite sex clothing (he looked very feminine) and,like me, he stopped when he turned 13. my ex accused me of trying to turn my son gay. WTF? his reaction took me by surprise as he always prided himself of being open minded and in a superior moral area as opposed to his teen x-dresser, strictly catholic, latino raised ex-wife


----------



## prettyprincess

bag-mania said:


> There's no way a six-year-old's brain has developed enough where he or she should be allowed to make a decision as important as that. I'm guessing it was the parents' influence at work.



+1000. It's completely irresponsible.


----------



## dangerouscurves

pukasonqo said:


> thanks! i was wondering about polinesian cultures as they seem to be more open to the idea of a third gender
> not a sociologist or anthropologist but seems that, in many cultures, the definition of gender is quite fluid which makes me wonder if our own definition of gender is a judeo-christian construction (will leave islam and buddhism out as i admit i have no idea about them)
> when i was a teen i enjoyed being confused for a boy as this gave me freedom not to conform to expected female  behaviours, i sort of grew out of it around the time i turned 17 and something similar happened with my son; like  me he enjoyed dressing in the opposite sex clothing (he looked very feminine) and,like me, he stopped when he turned 13. my ex accused me of trying to turn my son gay. WTF? his reaction took me by surprise as he always prided himself of being open minded and in a superior moral area as opposed to his teen x-dresser, strictly catholic, latino raised ex-wife




I think transgender in most of cultures around the world were accepted before the Abrahamic religions took over. Still in South Sulawesi culture of Indonesia the Calabai and Calalai are accepted and considered to have healing power. Also in old Iranian and Hindu culture eunuchs were respected. Only after the Abrahamic religions they are surpressed and treated badly.


----------



## dangerouscurves

bag-mania said:


> There's no way a six-year-old's brain has developed enough where he or she should be allowed to make a decision as important as that. I'm guessing it was the parents' influence at work.




I disagree. It's actually when they're still kids that they would show the symptoms of transgender. As they grow older they have to conform to the society's standard of sex role. They might be too young to make a decision, that's why they'd need guidance from a psychologist/psychiatrist.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think those cases are extremely rare though, when the decision is made so young.

Sexuality, and gender identification can be very fluid, right up until teenage years and further as people experiment and get to know themselves better.

Of course, later in life gay or transgender say they knew as a child but it wasn't really until they had sexually developed, experienced attraction, that the pieces fell into place.

That's not to say in their hearts and minds, they didn't know - just that the picture hadn't completed itself.

Then of course there are the exterior elements to deal with: societal and family views, expression of self etc that allow or suppress that realisation.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> _Waits for Seth MacFarlane to speak out_
> 
> Your secrets are safe with Full House alum Dave Coulier. The actor recently revealed that he has kept a friend&#8217;s secret for 25 years, and that friend is Caitlyn Jenner!
> 
> In a radio interview, Coulier revealed, &#8220;I haven&#8217;t said this publicly, but Bruce Jenner, he was really good friends with my ex-wife, and I knew this 25 years ago&#8230; My ex-wife always told me Bruce wanted to be Nicky Jenner.&#8221; he said. &#8220;I&#8217;ve never really said this in the media before so wow I&#8217;m breaking this big story on your show.&#8221;
> 
> Coulier added that he was not surprised when Bruce revealed that he would be transitioning. &#8220;I did a show with Bruce called Skating with Celebrities on Fox several years ago,&#8221; Coulier explained. &#8220;I knew that information but I never vocalized it to anybody other than just close friends. When I saw him I saw that he had gone through a little bit of constructive surgery&#8230; I thought &#8216;I wonder if he&#8217;s actually going to do this.'&#8221;
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/dave-coulier-knew-bruce-jenner-transgender-25-years-ago/


Aunt Heather,  Nicky Jenner, now Caitlyn.


----------



## papertiger

CobaltBlu said:


> Hinaleimoana Wong-Kalu
> 
> http://www.expression808.com/home/2014/8/6/hinaleimoana-wong-kalu-a-woman-of-the-people.html
> 
> I would encourage anyone to watch the film Kumu Hina. It is not about her transition specifically, but it is a really interesting perspective on some issues of gender identity told in the context of her life as a teacher of hula in a Native Hawaiian immersion charter school. And will also give a little insight into the fact that some of our rigid gender/sexuality/gender identity constructs are historically far more fluid in other cultures.
> 
> View attachment 3022176



Very interesting, thank you for this 



pukasonqo said:


> thanks! i was wondering about polinesian cultures as they seem to be more open to the idea of a third gender
> not a sociologist or anthropologist but seems that, in many cultures, the definition of gender is quite fluid which makes me wonder if our own definition of gender is a judeo-christian construction (will leave islam and buddhism out as i admit i have no idea about them)
> when i was a teen i enjoyed being confused for a boy as this gave me freedom not to conform to expected female  behaviours, i sort of grew out of it around the time i turned 17 and something similar happened with my son; like  me he enjoyed dressing in the opposite sex clothing (he looked very feminine) and,like me, he stopped when he turned 13. my ex accused me of trying to turn my son gay. WTF? his reaction took me by surprise as he always prided himself of being open minded and in a superior moral area as opposed to his teen x-dresser, strictly catholic, latino raised ex-wife



One of challenges of transgender within the general debate is that it's not so fluid or multi-faceted but bi-centric 

I think you may be interested in an anthropologically based book that looks at the 'third gender' in many cultures, written almost 10 years ago:

_Third Sex, Third Gender: Beyond Sexual Dimorphism in Culture and History_ (1996) by Gilbert Herdt 



dangerouscurves said:


> I think transgender in most of cultures around the world were accepted before the Abrahamic religions took over. Still in South Sulawesi culture of Indonesia the Calabai and Calalai are accepted and considered to have healing power. Also in old Iranian and Hindu culture eunuchs were respected. Only after the Abrahamic religions they are surpressed and treated badly.



Not always, Iran has the_ most_ transexuals of any nation. The state pays towards sexual reassignment surgery and other treatment. Of course homosexual acts are punishable by death there and families and the establishment pressure gay people (of both genders) or people who flout the 'rules' of their natural gender to undergo sa, rather than deal with a percentage of identifiably gay or 'unique' people.

In this way we can see that acceptance of transgender people is not a barometer of liberal or enlightened attitudes towards personal sexual or gender identity but rather an alternative enforcing of an established moral code upon all individuals to conform to bi-centric standards.


----------



## Eva1991

dangerouscurves said:


> I think transgender in most of cultures around the world were accepted before the Abrahamic religions took over. Still in South Sulawesi culture of Indonesia the Calabai and Calalai are accepted and considered to have healing power. Also in old Iranian and Hindu culture eunuchs were respected. Only after the Abrahamic religions they are surpressed and treated badly.



In Greek mythology there's a female character called Atalanta who enjoyed "male" activities such as hunting (at the time it was extremely unusual for women to participate in male sports) and hated the idea of marriage. She is considered by many classicists as the first example of gender non-conformity.


----------



## dangerouscurves

papertiger said:


> Very interesting, thank you for this
> 
> 
> 
> One of challenges of transgender within the general debate is that it's not so fluid or multi-faceted but bi-centric
> 
> I think you may be interested in an anthropologically based book that looks at the 'third gender' in many cultures, written almost 10 years ago:
> 
> _Third Sex, Third Gender: Beyond Sexual Dimorphism in Culture and History_ (1996) by Gilbert Herdt
> 
> 
> 
> Not always, Iran has the_ most_ transexuals of any nation. The state pays towards sexual reassignment surgery and other treatment. Of course homosexual acts are punishable by death there and families and the establishment pressure gay people (of both genders) or people who flout the 'rules' of their natural gender to undergo sa, rather than deal with a percentage of identifiably gay or 'unique' people.
> 
> In this way we can see that acceptance of transgender people is not a barometer of liberal or enlightened attitudes towards personal sexual or gender identity but rather an alternative enforcing of an established moral code upon all individuals to conform to bi-centric standards.




Wow!!! Didn't know that in Iran the state would pay for gender reassignment surgery and stuff. At least in one way, they're doing something right.


----------



## Eva1991

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think those cases are extremely rare though, when the decision is made so young.
> 
> Sexuality, and gender identification can be very fluid, right up until teenage years and further as people experiment and get to know themselves better.
> 
> Of course, later in life gay or transgender say they knew as a child but it wasn't really until they had sexually developed, experienced attraction, that the pieces fell into place.
> 
> That's not to say in their hearts and minds, they didn't know - just that the picture hadn't completed itself.
> 
> Then of course there are the exterior elements to deal with: societal and family views, expression of self etc that allow or suppress that realisation.



I don't think someone can be sure that they're straight or LGBTQ before the age of 16 - 17. That's why so many teens experiment a lot and enjoy flirting with both genders. It's usually after that experimentation that they find out whether they're straight, gay or something in between. After all, sexuality is like a spectrum; you're not either completely gay OR completely straight. I know some straight women who flirt with other women occasionally but they don't identify as lesbians because the majority of their long lasting relationships are with men.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Eva1991 said:


> I don't think someone can be sure that they're straight or LGBTQ before the age of 16 - 17. That's why so many teens experiment a lot and enjoy flirting with both genders. It's usually after that experimentation that they find out whether they're straight, gay or something in between. After all, sexuality is like a spectrum; you're not either completely gay OR completely straight. I know some straight women who flirt with other women occasionally but they don't identify as lesbians because the majority of their long lasting relationships are with men.




Yes, when we're talking about sexual orientation but most transgender I know told me stories how when they were kids they wished they could wear dresses. Some tried their sisters dresses but then their parents put stop on it or even punished them.


----------



## pukasonqo

papertiger said:


> Very interesting, thank you for this
> 
> 
> 
> One of challenges of transgender within the general debate is that it's not so fluid or multi-faceted but bi-centric
> 
> I think you may be interested in an anthropologically based book that looks at the 'third gender' in many cultures, written almost 10 years ago:
> 
> _Third Sex, Third Gender: Beyond Sexual Dimorphism in Culture and History_ (1996) by Gilbert Herdt
> 
> 
> 
> Not always, Iran has the_ most_ transexuals of any nation. The state pays towards sexual reassignment surgery and other treatment. Of course homosexual acts are punishable by death there and families and the establishment pressure gay people (of both genders) or people who flout the 'rules' of their natural gender to undergo sa, rather than deal with a percentage of identifiably gay or 'unique' people.
> 
> In this way we can see that acceptance of transgender people is not a barometer of liberal or enlightened attitudes towards personal sexual or gender identity but rather an alternative enforcing of an established moral code upon all individuals to conform to bi-centric standards.




thank you, wil check amazon for that book!


----------



## Eva1991

dangerouscurves said:


> Yes, when we're talking about sexual orientation but most transgender I know told me stories how when they were kids they wished they could wear dresses. Some tried their sisters dresses but then their parents put stop on it or even punished them.



You're right. My post was mostly referring to sexual orientation. I do think that transgender people may feel that they're born into the wrong body from a young age but I don't think they should start transitioning (i.e. living as the gender they think they identify the most with, start taking hormones, using the other gender's pronouns etc.) before they're mature enough to realize what gender and transition actually are and that transition is permenant; you can't go back and forth. 

Cross dressing at such a young age is harmless and I'm surprised people punish their kids for wearing clothes or playing with toys that are typically associated with the opposite gender. Most kids I know enjoy playing with toys that typically belong to the other gender but they don't turn out to be transgender.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Eva1991 said:


> You're right. My post was mostly referring to sexual orientation. I do think that transgender people may feel that they're born into the wrong body from a young age but I don't think they should start transitioning (i.e. living as the gender they think they identify the most with, start taking hormones, using the other gender's pronouns etc.) before they're mature enough to realize what gender and transition actually are and that transition is permenant; you can't go back and forth.
> 
> Cross dressing at such a young age is harmless and I'm surprised people punish their kids for wearing clothes or playing with toys that are typically associated with the opposite gender. Most kids I know enjoy playing with toys that typically belong to the other gender but they don't turn out to be transgender.




Nowadays kids are very lucky, especially in Europe. People are more open minded in comparison to Indonesia or Asia in general


----------



## Oryx816

I'm in Thailand right now, and seeing transgender people here is a common daily occurrence.  They work everywhere from department stores to gas stations.  It is just not a big deal here.  

The Thai language requires the speaker to use different endings of politeness and they depend on whether the speaker is male or female the same goes for the pronoun I, there is one for men and one for women.  Transgender women always use the female sentence construction and this doesn't even raise an eyebrow here....and it shouldn't.  Also, some effeminate gay men use female sentence construction.  

As for the bathroom situation, transgender women use the women's bathroom without incident here.  I think nothing of it and have never seen anyone react in any way whatsoever.  People largely just mind their own business here and don't care what someone else is doing unless it will directly affect them.

As for Treechada, yes she is gorgeous!  I believe she had surgery when she was 17.  She is a model and actress here and her hands are so delicate and feminine, they are more ladylike than mine!

My daughter is about to turn ten but when she was about 7 or so, we were at our home here for the summer and I went to buy makeup.  The clerk was a lovely transgender lady, and I saw my daughter staring intensely....she very indiscreetly pulls my arm and loudly whispers "I think this lady is a man!!!!"  I was mortified!  I said, "some people are more like butterflies.  They are born a caterpillar and transform into butterflies.  I see a beautiful lady that is speaking like a polite Thai lady and that is who she is in the world." My daughter's response was, "ok. I understand."  She flashed the clerk a smile that was warmly reciprocated and all was well.  People always fear the impact issues like this will have on children.  I don't understand this fear at all.    

Contrary to the beliefs of some in the West, all the openly transgender people here in Thailand have not brought about the downfall of society.  There is no chaos.  There are still straight people getting married.  There are still children going about their happy lives despite sharing bathrooms with gay people and transgender people.  The world has not ended.


----------



## kittenslingerie

bag-mania said:


> There's no way a six-year-old's brain has developed enough where he or she should be allowed to make a decision as important as that. I'm guessing it was the parents' influence at work.



Seriously! My sister used to tell us she wanted to be Luke Skywalker and even cut her hair like him (without my mom's consent) and cried her eyes out about wearing dresses or anything girly at 3-12 yrs old. Thank god my mom didn't start her on hormones and diagnose her transgender, because she is completely straight/female and loves dresses, makeup, etc... PC police are taking this stuff a little far changing babies not even in their teens sex.


----------



## Jayne1

Oryx816 said:


> I'm in Thailand right now, and seeing transgender people here is a common daily occurrence.  They work everywhere from department stores to gas stations.  It is just not a big deal here.
> 
> The Thai language requires the speaker to use different endings of politeness and they depend on whether the speaker is male or female the same goes for the pronoun I, there is one for men and one for women.  Transgender women always use the female sentence construction and this doesn't even raise an eyebrow here....and it shouldn't.  Also, some effeminate gay men use female sentence construction.
> 
> As for the bathroom situation, transgender women use the women's bathroom without incident here.  I think nothing of it and have never seen anyone react in any way whatsoever.  People largely just mind their own business here and don't care what someone else is doing unless it will directly affect them.


How do you even know someone is transgender. It cannot always be so obvious, can it?


----------



## blackkitty4378

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone puts their child on hormones as young as six years old. If you have a transgender child at that age I think they just allow them to dress and cut their hair according to the gender they feel they are. I don't think hormones would be necessary until puberty, when hormones like testosterone and estrogen really influence how you develop physically into an adult.

Here's a story about a transgender boy named Jacob: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/transgender-kids/jacobs-journey-life-transgender-5-year-old-n345131


----------



## Oryx816

Jayne1 said:


> How do you even know someone is transgender. It cannot always be so obvious, can it?




This is a developing country and most people just have the means for survival.  Some can only afford some basic make up and so it is quite clear.  While the surgery is cheap here compared to the US, many people here save for a lifetime.

Also, when a male voice addresses you from a female speech perspective, it is pretty clear.


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> How do you even know someone is transgender. It cannot always be so obvious, can it?



Usually, you can tell by their voice.

There are many gorgeous TG women in Thailand and the Phillippines. Asian men often already have those delicate features and slim bodies, so it doesn't take as much surgery to transition into beauty queens.


----------



## lanasyogamama

bag-mania said:


> There's no way a six-year-old's brain has developed enough where he or she should be allowed to make a decision as important as that. I'm guessing it was the parents' influence at work.





Eva1991 said:


> I don't think that a kid so young knows for sure they weren't assigned the right gender at birth; they don't even know what gender actually means! They may feel differently than most of their peers that belong to the same gender which could be an indicator of gender dysphoria but they should wait a few more years to start the process of transition. Just my 2 cents.





prettyprincess said:


> +1000. It's completely irresponsible.





dangerouscurves said:


> I disagree. It's actually when they're still kids that they would show the symptoms of transgender. As they grow older they have to conform to the society's standard of sex role. They might be too young to make a decision, that's why they'd need guidance from a psychologist/psychiatrist.





blackkitty4378 said:


> I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone puts their child on hormones as young as six years old. If you have a transgender child at that age I think they just allow them to dress and cut their hair according to the gender they feel they are. I don't think hormones would be necessary until puberty, when hormones like testosterone and estrogen really influence how you develop physically into an adult.
> 
> Here's a story about a transgender boy named Jacob: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/transgender-kids/jacobs-journey-life-transgender-5-year-old-n345131



It does scare the heck out of me, that they could be allowing kids to make a decision that they ultimately aren't happy with.  My daughter's bff in preschool was a little boy that loved princesses, cried when he wasn't allowed to wear a gown to Disney, etc., but now he's 9 and seems to wear football jerseys like most of the other boys.

I wish I knew more about the situation at my daughter's school, there has literally been zero communication.  Word is the school isn't allowed to acknowledge it at all.


----------



## labelwhore04

blackkitty4378 said:


> I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone puts their child on hormones as young as six years old. If you have a transgender child at that age I think they just allow them to dress and cut their hair according to the gender they feel they are. I don't think hormones would be necessary until puberty, when hormones like testosterone and estrogen really influence how you develop physically into an adult.
> 
> Here's a story about a transgender boy named Jacob: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/transgender-kids/jacobs-journey-life-transgender-5-year-old-n345131



I agree. Any transgender person will tell you that they've felt the same way since they were a kid. I think assigning your kid a different gender when they are so young is a bit much though. Parents should let them dress and cut their hair like you said, but doing anything permanent should be held off on till puberty when the person can make the decision on their own when they can understand it more.


----------



## AEGIS

shrugs

this is why different people live in different homes and are raised differently bc my 6 year old shan't be using the boys bathroom if born a girl ....as a child, you think as a child, and as an adult you mature.  if they require grown adults w/fully developed brains and reasoning capabilities to go under intensive therapy before they transition fully, there is truly nothing anyone can tell me that can convince me that a 6 year old can fully comprehend the magnitude of their decision.  this one doctor tried to say a 1 year old expressed gender dysmorphia and i rolled my eyes and changed the station.  you are trying too damn hard ma'am. i do not believe you.


----------



## RueMonge

Oryx816 said:


> I'm in Thailand right now, and seeing transgender people here is a common daily occurrence.  They work everywhere from department stores to gas stations.  It is just not a big deal here.
> 
> The Thai language requires the speaker to use different endings of politeness and they depend on whether the speaker is male or female the same goes for the pronoun I, there is one for men and one for women.  Transgender women always use the female sentence construction and this doesn't even raise an eyebrow here....and it shouldn't.  Also, some effeminate gay men use female sentence construction.
> 
> As for the bathroom situation, transgender women use the women's bathroom without incident here.  I think nothing of it and have never seen anyone react in any way whatsoever.  People largely just mind their own business here and don't care what someone else is doing unless it will directly affect them.
> 
> As for Treechada, yes she is gorgeous!  I believe she had surgery when she was 17.  She is a model and actress here and her hands are so delicate and feminine, they are more ladylike than mine!
> 
> My daughter is about to turn ten but when she was about 7 or so, we were at our home here for the summer and I went to buy makeup.  The clerk was a lovely transgender lady, and I saw my daughter staring intensely....she very indiscreetly pulls my arm and loudly whispers "I think this lady is a man!!!!"  I was mortified!  I said, "some people are more like butterflies.  They are born a caterpillar and transform into butterflies.  I see a beautiful lady that is speaking like a polite Thai lady and that is who she is in the world." My daughter's response was, "ok. I understand."  She flashed the clerk a smile that was warmly reciprocated and all was well.  People always fear the impact issues like this will have on children.  I don't understand this fear at all.
> 
> Contrary to the beliefs of some in the West, all the openly transgender people here in Thailand have not brought about the downfall of society.  There is no chaos.  There are still straight people getting married.  There are still children going about their happy lives despite sharing bathrooms with gay people and transgender people.  The world has not ended.



That is so interesting.  Thank you for sharing it.


----------



## exotikittenx

Oryx816 said:


> I'm in Thailand right now, and seeing transgender people here is a common daily occurrence.  They work everywhere from department stores to gas stations.  It is just not a big deal here.
> 
> The Thai language requires the speaker to use different endings of politeness and they depend on whether the speaker is male or female the same goes for the pronoun I, there is one for men and one for women.  Transgender women always use the female sentence construction and this doesn't even raise an eyebrow here....and it shouldn't.  Also, some effeminate gay men use female sentence construction.
> 
> As for the bathroom situation, transgender women use the women's bathroom without incident here.  I think nothing of it and have never seen anyone react in any way whatsoever.  People largely just mind their own business here and don't care what someone else is doing unless it will directly affect them.
> 
> As for Treechada, yes she is gorgeous!  I believe she had surgery when she was 17.  She is a model and actress here and her hands are so delicate and feminine, they are more ladylike than mine!
> 
> My daughter is about to turn ten but when she was about 7 or so, we were at our home here for the summer and I went to buy makeup.  The clerk was a lovely transgender lady, and I saw my daughter staring intensely....she very indiscreetly pulls my arm and loudly whispers "I think this lady is a man!!!!"  I was mortified!  I said, "some people are more like butterflies.  They are born a caterpillar and transform into butterflies.  I see a beautiful lady that is speaking like a polite Thai lady and that is who she is in the world." My daughter's response was, "ok. I understand."  She flashed the clerk a smile that was warmly reciprocated and all was well.  People always fear the impact issues like this will have on children.  I don't understand this fear at all.
> 
> Contrary to the beliefs of some in the West, all the openly transgender people here in Thailand have not brought about the downfall of society.  There is no chaos.  There are still straight people getting married.  There are still children going about their happy lives despite sharing bathrooms with gay people and transgender people.  The world has not ended.



That is amazing and wonderful.  The U.S. is so backwards about accepting others' differences and being tolerant to diversity, and it is shameful. 

A person is so much more than just a body.  Why can't we see that?


----------



## Oryx816

exotikittenx said:


> That is amazing and wonderful.  The U.S. is so backwards about accepting others' differences and being tolerant to diversity, and it is shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> A person is so much more than just a body.  Why can't we see that?




It is better than the US in terms of visibility, yes but Thailand still has a ways to go.  For instance, most Thai variety shows include a darker skinned person (Thai), a midget (sometimes dark skinned or clown like) and a transgender or gay person, sometimes there will be someone representing a westerner or "farang" (which means guava).  Anyway, these characters all serve as the butt of jokes in the shows.  Additionally, educational materials often include the same "characters".  I know....scary.

The darker skinned Thai people have a hard time getting jobs as they are seen as low class as they believe the people must be dark because they are poor and do manual labor.  It is more common to see someone openly mocked for "dark" skin, than anything else.

I once went to a bank and my daughter was with me and the clerks were all commenting about how cute she is (despite being a guava), and how they love her cute curly hair.  A female custodian came by, sweeping the floor and the staff started shouting for her to hide herself because she was so ugly and dark.  Worse, they asked my daughter to render her opinion on this woman, who was just so visibly miserable.  My daughter said, "I think she is beautiful" and they laughed and told her she was wrong.  I was there to pick up a document for my husband but I left.  It was dreadful. 

While in terms of gay and transgender visibility Thailand is more progressive in many ways, I find it offensive to still use LGBTQ people as "characters".  I do admire that despite this in the media, there doesn't seem to be fear of coming out as parents and society don't seem to make a moral judgment.  The usual reaction is just, "oh, ok".  

When it comes to having dark skin though--wow!  It is crazy here!  I have a Thai friend whose daughter had to move schools FIVE times because students AND teachers bullied her over being dark.....and by dark, I mean, this girl's skin tone is approximately Salma Hayek's tone.  She is now at a British run school full of westerners and doing marvelously.

I think that every culture in the world has work to do, no one is perfect.  Every culture seems to find "otherness" to pick on so as to feel superior and assuage irrational fears.  Dialogue and education is the only answer.


----------



## dangerouscurves

All I was saying was it's better to start hormones therapy as early as possible, I didn't mean when the kid is still 6 years old.  And I'm sure parents should know if their kids are just playing dress up or showing symptoms of gender disphoria.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Oryx816 said:


> It is better than the US in terms of visibility, yes but Thailand still has a ways to go.  For instance, most Thai variety shows include a darker skinned person (Thai), a midget (sometimes dark skinned or clown like) and a transgender or gay person, sometimes there will be someone representing a westerner or "farang" (which means guava).  Anyway, these characters all serve as the butt of jokes in the shows.  Additionally, educational materials often include the same "characters".  I know....scary.
> 
> The darker skinned Thai people have a hard time getting jobs as they are seen as low class as they believe the people must be dark because they are poor and do manual labor.  It is more common to see someone openly mocked for "dark" skin, than anything else.
> 
> I once went to a bank and my daughter was with me and the clerks were all commenting about how cute she is (despite being a guava), and how they love her cute curly hair.  A female custodian came by, sweeping the floor and the staff started shouting for her to hide herself because she was so ugly and dark.  Worse, they asked my daughter to render her opinion on this woman, who was just so visibly miserable.  My daughter said, "I think she is beautiful" and they laughed and told her she was wrong.  I was there to pick up a document for my husband but I left.  It was dreadful.
> 
> While in terms of gay and transgender visibility Thailand is more progressive in many ways, I find it offensive to still use LGBTQ people as "characters".  I do admire that despite this in the media, there doesn't seem to be fear of coming out as parents and society don't seem to make a moral judgment.  The usual reaction is just, "oh, ok".
> 
> When it comes to having dark skin though--wow!  It is crazy here!  I have a Thai friend whose daughter had to move schools FIVE times because students AND teachers bullied her over being dark.....and by dark, I mean, this girl's skin tone is approximately Salma Hayek's tone.  She is now at a British run school full of westerners and doing marvelously.
> 
> I think that every culture in the world has work to do, no one is perfect.  Every culture seems to find "otherness" to pick on so as to feel superior and assuage irrational fears.  Dialogue and education is the only answer.



I wish I grew up there! As a child (in the US) I was always bullied for being really pale. I regret all of the times I went tanning as a teenager or didn't wear sunscreen and got sunburns. It's just not worth the sun damage, not to mention the risk of skin cancer which I hope I don't get.

Now that I'm older and a little bit more comfortable with myself, people make comments (particularly those who are fair-skinned like myself but do not take care of their skin or wear sunscreen) and I just smile thinking about how much better (and healthier) I'm going to look when I'm older compared to them.


----------



## papertiger

kittenslingerie said:


> Seriously! My sister used to tell us she wanted to be Luke Skywalker and even cut her hair like him (without my mom's consent) and cried her eyes out about wearing dresses or anything girly at 3-12 yrs old. Thank god my mom didn't start her on hormones and diagnose her transgender, because she is completely straight/female and loves dresses, makeup, etc... PC police are taking this stuff a little far changing babies not even in their teens sex.





lanasyogamama said:


> It does scare the heck out of me, that they could be allowing kids to make a decision that they ultimately aren't happy with.  My daughter's bff in preschool was a little boy that loved princesses, cried when he wasn't allowed to wear a gown to Disney, etc., but now he's 9 and seems to wear football jerseys like most of the other boys.
> 
> I wish I knew more about the situation at my daughter's school, there has literally been zero communication.  Word is the school isn't allowed to acknowledge it at all.



I agree, a child (or adult) of one gender identifying with an 'opposite' male or female character and wanting to style themselves like them does not mean anything in itself except that character has caught the child's imagination. I used to like wearing big red boots as a kid _all the time_ because I loved my Puss in Boots books central character and I used to also add a little purr in my voice like the character, that goodness my parents din't think I wanted to be an actual cat or send me 'to see someone'. 

Taking hormones of any kind should be the HUGE decision it really is, the impact of artificial hormones for a long period is not known fully. When thinking back an transgender adult may say they always knew they were 'born in the wrong body' but no one interviews natural born adults who thought they were and then changed their mind. 

Of course it's a goal of many transexuals to pass for the opposite gender without question and/or for those m/f to look like beauty queens. Many don't at all, they like being 'special'. I find the preoccupation with men wanting to look like pretty female dolls as sad as natural women wanting to look like them. Prettiness is not  a measure of being "all woman".


----------



## beekmanhill

papertiger said:


> Who is writing these moral codes? Even members of the LGTB community can't agree, nor do many want to be lumped together as part of any community that have a defined moral code, but would rather like to be thought of as a unique individual.
> 
> Using the word 'moral' is rather loaded in this context
> 
> I'm rather feeling the irony of asking people to stay within the confines of prescribed moral codes in a debate about transgender people.
> 
> From Miranda Yardley
> 
> http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d78a-What-does-it-mean-to-be-Caitlyn#.VXIDNWRVikr



Thank you for this article.  It summarizes my feelings about the Caitlyn Jenner story.   It worries me that her feelings of being a woman focus on the stereotypical manifestations of femininity, the plastic surgery, the Hollywood glamour, the masculine ideal.   When commenting on the ESPY award, her Instagram comment was "now what shall I wear."  

When I read that she's been a member of an exclusive golf club that separates men and women for dining and drinking I was even more dismayed.


----------



## beekmanhill

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0

More in the same vein.  What does it mean to be a woman?


----------



## jellyv

papertiger said:


> I find the preoccupation with men wanting to look like pretty female dolls as sad as natural women wanting to look like them. Prettiness is not  a measure of being "all woman".



Jenner had androgynous facial features and was "pretty" all along. But I agree about there being something to consider when transsexuals focus on reproducing stereotypes of femininity. Good article today in the NYT.


----------



## krissa

beekmanhill said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
> 
> More in the same vein.  What does it mean to be a woman?



She's going to get skewered but that was a good article. Very thought provoking.


----------



## kittenslingerie

dangerouscurves said:


> All I was saying was it's better to start hormones therapy as early as possible, I didn't mean when the kid is still 6 years old.  And I'm sure parents should know if their kids are just playing dress up or showing symptoms of gender disphoria.



Thats just it, you can't KNOW! They don't even KNOW for sure yet.


----------



## kittenslingerie

papertiger said:


> I agree, a child (or adult) of one gender identifying with an 'opposite' male or female character and wanting to style themselves like them does not mean anything in itself except that character has caught the child's imagination. I used to like wearing big red boots as a kid _all the time_ because I loved my Puss in Boots books central character and I used to also add a little purr in my voice like the character, that goodness my parents din't think I wanted to be an actual cat or send me 'to see someone'.
> 
> Taking hormones of any kind should be the HUGE decision it really is, the impact of artificial hormones for a long period is not known fully. When thinking back an transgender adult may say they always knew they were 'born in the wrong body' but no one interviews natural born adults who thought they were and then changed their mind.
> 
> Of course it's a goal of many transexuals to pass for the opposite gender without question and/or for those m/f to look like beauty queens. Many don't at all, they like being 'special'. I find the preoccupation with men wanting to look like pretty female dolls as sad as natural women wanting to look like them. Prettiness is not  a measure of being "all woman".


I agree, think of all the plain or ordinary looking girls wishing they could look like beauty queens too. Should parents give them hormones, or breast implants, nose jobs, lipo, etc... I mean they KNOW they want to be more visually beautiful, its creating a huge hypocrisy. Some of the same people advocating childhood gender change would probably be appalled by Kylie Jenner's early boob job, fat transfer to buttocks, fillers, etc... and thats not fair, no double standard. Let them dress less feminine or masculine, but leave the body alterations for adults over 18.


----------



## kittenslingerie

kittenslingerie said:


> I agree, think of all the plain or ordinary looking girls wishing they could look like beauty queens too. Should parents give them hormones, or breast implants, nose jobs, lipo, etc... I mean they KNOW they want to be more visually beautiful, its creating a huge hypocrisy. Some of the same people advocating childhood gender change would probably be appalled by Kylie Jenner's early boob job, fat transfer to buttocks, fillers, etc... and thats not fair, no double standard. Let them dress less feminine or masculine, but leave the body alterations for adults over 18.


At the end of the day, its up to the parents, however I feel it is too early.


----------



## ByeKitty

Hmm yes, in some cases it's just a "phase" and it's almost impossible to know for sure how a kid will feel in a few years. I'd definitely say it's good to be really cautious and if there is even _any_ shred of doubt, stay away from the hormones and legal changes. However, some kids show gender dysphoria from the minute they are old enough to express themselves. Imagine having a little kid that's physically a boy but always identified as a girl and done girl things go through full blown male puberty. That must be absolutely horrifying. I mean in some cases it may not be fair to just say "wait with hormones until someone is over 18".


----------



## B. Jara

kittenslingerie said:


> At the end of the day, its up to the parents, however I feel it is too early.




And to me, that's the sad part. How can a parent make a potentially life long altering decision (hormones can be very dangerous, especially in high doses) for their child whose brain hasn't fully developed? Liver damage, cancer, etc have been shown to be exacerbated by drugs that were originally meant for a different medical condition and are now showing to be used with pre/post TG surgery and lifelong maintenance. 

It's a very slippery slope and has the potential for devastating consequences. ESPECIALLY considering the statistics show that after TG surgery, the suicide rate is 40%. 

According the latest research, the rational thinking part of the brain isn't fully developed until at least 25. 

UNDERSTANDING THE TEEN BRAIN

It doesn't matter how smart your teen is or how well he or she scored on the SAT or ACT. Good judgment isn't something he or she can excel in, at least not yet.

The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed and won't be until he or she is 25 years old or so.

In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain's rational part. This is the part of the bran that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdale. This is the emotional part.

In teen's brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing. That's why when teens are under overwhelming emotional input, they can't explain later what they were thinking. They weren't thinking as much as they were feeling.

What's a parent to do? 

You're the most important role model your kids have. Sure, their friends are important to them, but the way you behave and fulfill your responsibilities will have a profound and long-lasting effect on your children.

Discussing the consequences of their actions can help your child link impulsive thinking with facts. This helps the brain make these connections and wires the brain to make this link more often.

Remind your teens that they're resilient and competent. Because they're so focused in the moment, adolescents have trouble seeing they can play a part in changing bad situations. Reminding them of instances in the past they thought would be devastating, but turned out for the best can help.

Become familiar with things that are important to your teens. It doesn't mean you have to like hip-hop music, but showing an interest in the things they're involved in shows them they're important to you.

Ask teens if they want you to respond when they come to you with problems, or if they just want you to listen.

Parents tend to jump in with advice to try to fix their child's problem or place blame. But this can make teens less likely to be open with their parents in the future. You want to make it emotionally safe and easy for them to come to you, so you can be part of their lives.

Signs of trouble

It's normal for teens to be down or out of sorts for a couple days. But, if you see a significant mood or behavioral change that lasts more than 2 weeks, it could mean something else is going on, such as depression.

If you think your teen could be depressed, promptly seek professional treatment for your child. Depression is serious and, if left untreated, can be life threatening.

Your teen needs your guidance, even though they may think they don't. Understanding their development can help you support them in becoming independent, responsible adults.


Medical Reviewers:

Holloway, Beth, RN, M.Ed.
newMentor board-certified, academically affiliated clinician
Roux, Susan L., ARNP

Read more: http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051


----------



## shiny_things

Just got back from holiday so I'm catching up. I think she looks fantastic!

Pleased to see that her records and medals she obtained whilst 'Bruce' will stand


----------



## Eva1991

ByeKitty said:


> Hmm yes, in some cases it's just a "phase" and it's almost impossible to know for sure how a kid will feel in a few years. I'd definitely say it's good to be really cautious and if there is even _any_ shred of doubt, stay away from the hormones and legal changes. However, some kids show gender dysphoria from the minute they are old enough to express themselves. Imagine having a little kid that's physically a boy but always identified as a girl and done girl things go through full blown male puberty. That must be absolutely horrifying. I mean in some cases it may not be fair to just say "wait with hormones until someone is over 18".



Even adults have to wait though. In order to have sexual reassignment surgery, one needs to consult a therapist first, no matter how old or mature they are. It's a very big change in one's life and needs to be done very carefuly in order for the person to benefit from it and face the less difficulties possible during the process. Caitlyn consulted a therapist and she's 65.


----------



## Lounorada

Saw this on tumblr, from Caitlyn Jenners instagram:



> @caitlynjenner: Learn from those who have walked the path before you. #TransIsBeautiful #LivingOurTruth #JustTheBeginning


----------



## prettyprincess

kittenslingerie said:


> I agree, think of all the plain or ordinary looking girls wishing they could look like beauty queens too. Should parents give them hormones, or breast implants, nose jobs, lipo, etc... I mean they KNOW they want to be more visually beautiful, its creating a huge hypocrisy. Some of the same people advocating childhood gender change would probably be appalled by Kylie Jenner's early boob job, fat transfer to buttocks, fillers, etc... and thats not fair, no double standard. Let them dress less feminine or masculine, but leave the body alterations for adults over 18.



Excellent point. There are people in the Kylie Jenner thread lambasting Kris Jenner for allowing her to get her lips plumped and for allowing her daughter's to be on birth control at such a young age.


----------



## Eva1991

prettyprincess said:


> Excellent point. There are people in the Kylie Jenner thread lambasting Kris Jenner for allowing her to get her lips plumped and for allowing her daughter's to be on birth control at such a young age.



Lots of teen girls are on birth control. It's not that big of a deal. It's better to take bc pills than risk getting pregnant. And, to be honest, I don't mind the lips. Lip fillers are harmless and they wear off after a few months. Hope she doesn't become addicted to them though and it's just a phase.


----------



## dangerouscurves

kittenslingerie said:


> I agree, think of all the plain or ordinary looking girls wishing they could look like beauty queens too. Should parents give them hormones, or breast implants, nose jobs, lipo, etc... I mean they KNOW they want to be more visually beautiful, its creating a huge hypocrisy. Some of the same people advocating childhood gender change would probably be appalled by Kylie Jenner's early boob job, fat transfer to buttocks, fillers, etc... and thats not fair, no double standard. Let them dress less feminine or masculine, but leave the body alterations for adults over 18.




What? You can't compare plastic surgery to transgender treatment!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Eva1991 said:


> Lots of teen girls are on birth control. It's not that big of a deal. It's better to take bc pills than risk getting pregnant. And, to be honest, I don't mind the lips. Lip fillers are harmless and they wear off after a few months. Hope she doesn't become addicted to them though and it's just a phase.



I think it's read as Kris giving permission for her girls to just go and have sex though - without the parental education about taking care of yourself emotionally, and the consequences.

Yes, some girls are keen to experiment sexually at a young age, and I'm not shaming that (I was on the pill at 17) but its not just protection from pregnancy that comes along with sex.  There are a lot of other discussions that should happen as well. I don't think either of her parents are that way inclined.

The lips? Yikes.


----------



## Eva1991

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think it's read as Kris giving permission for her girls to just go and have sex though - without the parental education about taking care of yourself emotionally, and the consequences.
> 
> Yes, some girls are keen to experiment sexually at a young age, and I'm not shaming that (I was on the pill at 17) but its not just protection from pregnancy that comes along with sex.  There are a lot of other discussions that should happen as well. I don't think either of her parents are that way inclined.
> 
> The lips? Yikes.



I hope she's had this discussion with someone in her family - though I can't think of anyone amongst them capable of giving thoughtful advice.


----------



## labelwhore04

dangerouscurves said:


> What? You can't compare plastic surgery to transgender treatment!



Seriously. Smh


----------



## CeeJay

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think it's read as Kris giving permission for her girls to just go and have sex though - without the parental education about taking care of yourself emotionally, and the consequences.
> 
> Yes, some girls are keen to experiment sexually at a young age, and I'm not shaming that (I was on the pill at 17) but its not just protection from pregnancy that comes along with sex.  There are a lot of other discussions that should happen as well. I don't think either of her parents are that way inclined.
> 
> *The lips? Yikes*.



I can't even begin to tell you how many women you see out here, that have overdone the PS .. and honestly, when they age .. they look a heck of a lot older and worse for the wear. 

Remember, skin stretches .. so unless you plan to make lip/check, etc. fillers a permanent part of your beauty regimen, then one shouldn't bother.  I was so grossed out by this woman sitting near me; she looked like a freak with the saggy lips .. GROSS!!  Of course, it didn't help that she must have found the cheapest PS around as her nose job was REALLY bad!  People that look like this make me stick with my god-given looks, thank you ..


----------



## AEGIS

kittenslingerie said:


> I agree, think of all the plain or ordinary looking girls wishing they could look like beauty queens too. Should parents give them hormones, or breast implants, nose jobs, lipo, etc... I mean they KNOW they want to be more visually beautiful, its creating a huge hypocrisy. Some of the same people advocating childhood gender change would probably be appalled by Kylie Jenner's early boob job, fat transfer to buttocks, fillers, etc... and thats not fair, no double standard. Let them dress less feminine or masculine, but leave the body alterations for adults over 18.



100%
I don't think anyone that is still a teen should be in the process of altering themselves permanently


----------



## ByeKitty

Eva1991 said:


> *Lots of teen girls are on birth control. It's not that big of a deal.* It's better to take bc pills than risk getting pregnant. And, to be honest, I don't mind the lips. Lip fillers are harmless and they wear off after a few months. Hope she doesn't become addicted to them though and it's just a phase.



It _is_ a big deal, and it can wreck havoc on your overall health. Some girls seem to be able to handle those hormones okay, but a dear friend of mine died - how could she have known at 16 that she was predisposed to trombosis? Now another friend of mine has been bleeding for over half a year due to hormone imbalance (after trying 7 types of pills). She is actually very ill, I'm sorry if this is TMI but last night she told me about the inch thick big globs of endometrium that come out daily. Her doctor is now trying to restore her hormone balance so that she can safely wean off of the pill. Personally I'm so happy I stopped the search for the "right pill" for me after a year.

I can see the value of the pill and how it has helped many people, but what it does to your body is not something to take lightly.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I don't see Kylie's lip fillers as a big deal, even at her age. They obviously have a different standard in that family. Look at the work her own parents have had done. It doesn't surprise me that she would go down that route. I just hope she doesn't do anything she regrets.


----------



## ByeKitty

I also feel like people are mixing up hormone treatments for transgender people with plastic surgery. Having treatments to postpone puberty is of course a big deal, but it's could be saving these people, who know at a very young age that they are not comfortable being male/female from, for instance, developing chest hair and a low voice - which I can imagine would be traumatic for someone who genuinely does not feel comfortable being male.


----------



## AEGIS

ByeKitty said:


> It _is_ a big deal, and it can wreck havoc on your overall health. Some girls seem to be able to handle those hormones okay, but a dear friend of mine died - how could she have known at 16 that she was predisposed to trombosis? Now another friend of mine has been bleeding for over half a year due to hormone imbalance (after trying 7 types of pills). She is actually very ill, I'm sorry if this is TMI but last night she told me about the inch thick big globs of endometrium that come out daily. Her doctor is now trying to restore her hormone balance so that she can safely wean off of the pill. Personally I'm so happy I stopped the search for the "right pill" for me after a year.
> 
> I can see the value of the pill and how it has helped many people, but what it does to your body is not something to take lightly.



yes! I personally could not see myself being on hormonal BC for 40+ years. taking a chemical everyday for that long CANNOT be good for you.


----------



## AEGIS

i wonder how many ppl change their minds? is that a thing?  i read an article once about a British guy who  decided to become a woman and then changed his mind and went back to male....i am sure that type of story is not often reported and those in the T community must hate him


----------



## sdkitty

CeeJay said:


> I can't even begin to tell you how many women you see out here, that have overdone the PS .. and honestly, when they age .. they look a heck of a lot older and worse for the wear.
> 
> Remember, skin stretches .. so unless you plan to make lip/check, etc. fillers a permanent part of your beauty regimen, then one shouldn't bother.  I was so grossed out by this woman sitting near me; she looked like a freak with the saggy lips .. GROSS!!  Of course, it didn't help that she must have found the cheapest PS around as her nose job was REALLY bad!  People that look like this make me stick with my god-given looks, thank you ..


I know what you mean
There are few sights more disturbing than an obviously elderly woman with artificially puffy lips
She's trying to appear youthful or something but just looks off and creepy


----------



## blackkitty4378

AEGIS said:


> i wonder how many ppl change their minds? is that a thing?  i read an article once about a British guy who  decided to become a woman and then changed his mind and went back to male....i am sure that type of story is not often reported and *those in the T community must hate him*



Why do you think that?


----------



## AEGIS

blackkitty4378 said:


> Why do you think that?



bc it makes the case that ppl should not get sex changes....i just googled there was a True Life epsiode about...called 'de-transitioning' about teens who changed their minds...what I did find interesting was that that man said it still feels like a penis when he is aroused...i remember asking a transgender woman about how sex felt as a woman compared to as a man


----------



## prettyprincess

dangerouscurves said:


> What? You can't compare plastic surgery to transgender treatment!



Why not? Both examples are instances of people trying to fit a societal ideal.


----------



## blackkitty4378

AEGIS said:


> bc it makes the case that ppl should not get sex changes....i just googled there was a True Life epsiode about...called 'de-transitioning' about teens who changed their minds



_Teens_? I didn't know they let teens get sex changes. That's way too young. I think it's something that should definitely be more thought out.

Caitlyn said that she needs to be in therapy for a year (maybe that's because of her age) before she can even get a sex change. I'm not sure what the requirements are for someone younger but I imagine a sex change is not easily reversible the way breast implants are, for example.

I think people should get sex changes but I think it should require much more time to decide if it's really the right thing for them.


----------



## skarsbabe

There are a good amount of parents allowing their young children to make the choice. It's definitely an interesting subject. See this video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAHCqnux2fk Obviously when puberty hits things become much more serious (deciding to block hormones, add them or physically alter their body) but when they are just this young it's as simple as change of hair, clothes and name/pronouns.


----------



## AEGIS

blackkitty4378 said:


> _Teens_? I didn't know they let teens get sex changes. That's way too young. I think it's something that should definitely be more thought out.
> 
> Caitlyn said that she needs to be in therapy for a year (maybe that's because of her age) before she can even get a sex change. I'm not sure what the requirements are for someone younger but I imagine a sex change is not easily reversible the way breast implants are, for example.
> 
> I think people should get sex changes but I think it should require much more time to decide if it's really the right thing for them.



I mean ppl advocate halting puberty....


----------



## pink1

I'm behind on this thread.  But did anyone read the People article??  It is sad the kind of father she was to some of the kids.


----------



## krissa

pink1 said:


> I'm behind on this thread.  But did anyone read the People article??  It is sad the kind of father she was to some of the kids.



Is it only available in the mag??


----------



## lizmil

I do think there is a concern with teens being on the pill.  Years of taking the pill increases stroke  risk if your family has that disposition. Just casually taking it to improve your skin seems cavalier.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

lizmil said:


> I do think there is a concern with teens being on the pill.  Years of taking the pill increases stroke  risk if your family has that disposition. Just casually taking it to improve your skin seems cavalier.



I went on it young (16-17) as I had heavy periods but it never sat very well with me, despite trying different types. I decided it wasn't for me, even though my Dr took my blood pressure, family medical history into account. There was a history of stroke and heart issues there, so that was definitely a concern.

Introducing hormones at a young age is no joke. My cousin had a growth issue as a kid (very small for his age) and it was decided he needed growth hormones. The process was long and extensive and there was STILL hesitation by my Aunt due to side effects.

He was taken off it the moment he reached the lower end of the growth percentile chart.

The physical is taken into account with the psychological I imagine in regards to deciding to transition. Not being who you feel you are can render psychological damage and that needs to weighed against physical side effects.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I think with taking the pill, there should be consideration whether or not you have a family history of blood clots. However, for most young women, it is not something they should totally shun just because of the risks or side effects.

I have it in the back of my mind that I am at slightly higher risk for a stroke being on the pill. I'm rather young and I quit smoking, so my risks of having a stroke are nowhere near as high as someone who smokes and/or is over 35. But at the same time, I'm also benefitting from it because my periods are way less painful and heavy (I can actually function during my period!), and I'm reducing my risk for a few different types of cancer.


----------



## Eva1991

ByeKitty said:


> It _is_ a big deal, and it can wreck havoc on your overall health. Some girls seem to be able to handle those hormones okay, but a dear friend of mine died - how could she have known at 16 that she was predisposed to trombosis? Now another friend of mine has been bleeding for over half a year due to hormone imbalance (after trying 7 types of pills). She is actually very ill, I'm sorry if this is TMI but last night she told me about the inch thick big globs of endometrium that come out daily. Her doctor is now trying to restore her hormone balance so that she can safely wean off of the pill. Personally I'm so happy I stopped the search for the "right pill" for me after a year.
> 
> I can see the value of the pill and how it has helped many people, but what it does to your body is not something to take lightly.



Doctors usually run some tests first in order to determine whether or not you can take the pill and what type of pill is more suitable for you. I'm really sorry about your friends...


----------



## ByeKitty

Eva1991 said:


> Doctors usually run some tests first in order to determine whether or not you can take the pill and what type of pill is more suitable for you. I'm really sorry about your friends...



Not where I'm from! They only asked me "do you really want this?". That was back in 2007. Also, as I've understood there are no tests to measure whether you are predisposed to thrombosis... Something I would like to do because it does run heavily in my family - as I found out years after quitting the pill. And may I add that the risks are not merely physical but also emotional, in the sense that some people become really depressed under the influence of these hormones?

Again, I'm not against the pill or anything, it's a great invention in a way. But the feminist in me objects to the fact that it's women who have to put their bodies through this. That idea is at odds with the stories that have been around since the 1960s about the pill giving women great freedoms because they are finally "able to control their fertility". Turns out some are more "in control" than others. I hope my friend hasn't lost her fertility altogether.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Off topic. But the pill had greater societal affect than that. It was the start of a woman having a choice, to put it very rudimentally. 

With any meds there are a plus and a minus. It's up to the individual if it's for them.

And I guess that applies to Caitlyn as well with regards to how the hormones affect her.


----------



## blackkitty4378

ByeKitty said:


> I hope my friend hasn't lost her fertility altogether.



Just curious, did your friend have any preexisting conditions before going on birth control? I've never heard of birth control doing that to anyone unless they have something else wrong with them. That's horrible to have to go through that.


----------



## ByeKitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> Just curious, did your friend have any preexisting conditions before going on birth control? I've never heard of birth control doing that to anyone unless they have something else wrong with them. That's horrible to have to go through that.



She never had any problems that she knew of, except that her periods hurt - but so did mine! The problems didn't start right away, only after switching between different pills a number of times. Sounds logical in hindsight, that you don't start off with a "clean sheet" when switching to another pill because the other type had too many negative side effects. I'm obviously not a doctor so I don't know exactly what's going on with her, but according to her doctor purely hormones can completely disrupt your cycle. I guess that makes sense, given how the pill works!


----------



## Eva1991

ByeKitty said:


> Not where I'm from! They only asked me "do you really want this?". That was back in 2007. Also, as I've understood there are no tests to measure whether you are predisposed to thrombosis... Something I would like to do because it does run heavily in my family - as I found out years after quitting the pill. And may I add that the risks are not merely physical but also emotional, in the sense that some people become really depressed under the influence of these hormones?
> 
> Again, I'm not against the pill or anything, it's a great invention in a way. But the feminist in me objects to the fact that it's women who have to put their bodies through this. That idea is at odds with the stories that have been around since the 1960s about the pill giving women great freedoms because they are finally "able to control their fertility". Turns out some are more "in control" than others. I hope my friend hasn't lost her fertility altogether.




All meds have side effects. It's the doctor's job to inform the patient about them but ultimately everytime we get a pill (any pill, not just bc pills) we risk having one of the side effects. IMO every teen girl who has an active sexual life as well as every adult woman who doesn't want to get pregnant should take precautions (bc pills, IUDs etc. according to what's best for her and what her ob/gyn advises her) because at the end of the day in case of an accidental pregnancy the woman is the one who'll carry the baby, give birth etc. Teen dads usually disappear and it's better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## ByeKitty

Eva1991 said:


> All meds have side effects. It's the doctor's job to inform the patient about them but ultimately everytime we get a pill (any pill, not just bc pills) we risk having one of the side effects. IMO every teen girl who has an active sexual life as well as every adult woman who doesn't want to get pregnant should take precautions (bc pills, IUDs etc. according to what's best for her and what her ob/gyn advises her) because at the end of the day in case of an accidental pregnancy the woman is the one who'll carry the baby, give birth etc. Teen dads usually disappear and it's better to be safe than sorry.



Well yeah, obviously! I didn't think Kris Jenner was a fool for putting young Kylie on BC pills because a pregnancy would likely more serious than the side effects she would experience from the pill. It's just when people say "it's no big deal, plenty of people use it" that I feel compelled to shed light on the potential harm hormone treatments can cause.


----------



## Sassys

ByeKitty said:


> Well yeah, obviously! I didn't think Kris Jenner was a fool for putting young Kylie on BC pills because a pregnancy would likely more serious than the side effects she would experience from the pill. It's just when people say "it's no big deal, plenty of people use it" that I feel compelled to shed light on the potential harm hormone treatments can cause.


 
Agree. I almost died from BC. I had a blood clot in my lung thanks to Yazmin. Never smoked a day in my life, and only drink socially. Was in the hospital for 4 days and had to give myself blood thinner injections for 3o days, then have my blood tested every other day for Coumadin. Was NOT a fun experience. Will never take hormonal BC again.


----------



## Jayne1

Any news of Caitlyn? Golfing, running errands, grabbing a coffee at the local Starbucks?


----------



## bag-mania

Jayne1 said:


> Any news of Caitlyn? Golfing, running errands, grabbing a coffee at the local Starbucks?



Not much out there. You can be sure the paps have been stalking all the usual hangouts. Maybe Caitlyn is hunkered down for awhile. Since the whole "introduction" was a hugely choreographed (and paid for) affair I'm sure they don't want outside photographers snapping any freebies.


----------



## krissa

Jayne1 said:


> Any news of Caitlyn? Golfing, running errands, grabbing a coffee at the local Starbucks?



http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/06/06/caitlyn-jenner-girlfriends-pose-photo-twitter


----------



## Jayne1

^ Yes, I saw that&#8230; but it's probably a still from the reality show.  I want to know what's going on and how she dresses to run for a coffee. I hope this doesn't mean I have to watch that E reality show, which probably has some K writers working on it, meaning it's scripted too.


----------



## Cocolo

Last Friday I heard a radio entertainment news show say that Bruce's Worth was 100 Million, but Caitlyn is now worth 500Million.  That just boggled my mind.  

It also makes me think that is a lot of money.  And Caitlyn doesn't seem genuine.  Or she has been so influenced by Kris, that she thinks barefaced commercialism and bankability has a place in her metamorphasis.  

Is everything a show to this family?  Something so life changing just seems so theatrical with them.  

And I read how Caitlyn lashed out at the family of the woman killed this winter in Caitlyn's car accident.  They're not blood so they're not entitled to sue me?  huh?  A good chunk of his fortune has been helped by the actions of his 'not blood' relatives.  The step sons and daughters of the victim filed suit for wrongful death.  

The duplicity of it all astounds me.


----------



## Sassys

Cocolo said:


> Last Friday I heard a radio entertainment news show say that Bruce's Worth was 100 Million, but Caitlyn is now worth 500Million.  That just boggled my mind.
> 
> It also makes me think that is a lot of money.  And Caitlyn doesn't seem genuine.  Or she has been so influenced by Kris, that she thinks barefaced commercialism and bankability has a place in her metamorphasis.
> 
> Is everything a show to this family?  Something so life changing just seems so theatrical with them.
> 
> And I read how Caitlyn lashed out at the family of the woman killed this winter in Caitlyn's car accident.  They're not blood so they're not entitled to sue me?  huh?  A good chunk of his fortune has been helped by the actions of his 'not blood' relatives.  The step sons and daughters of the victim filed suit for wrongful death.
> 
> The duplicity of it all astounds me.


 

The said, she could make as much as 500million. No way in hell Bruce is worth 100million, and using Rob Sr. Old furniture in his house.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

I highly doubt Caitlyn is worth or has the potential to be worth 500 mil. The media makes these claims and at the end of the day it's just speculation not fact since no one has the receipts to their bank account. Gisele made a comment about how the IRS audited her because of media outlets like Forbes claimed she had x amt of money when she really didn't.  My sister does PR for Pepsi and said that the rumors of Beyonce making 50 mil were complete bs. Idk if those numbers are put out by the celebs team or not but take what you read with a grain of salt.

Regarding the accident tmz has been reporting the same thing about the victims step kids not having much of a relationship with her too. They spoke to one of her "friends"....wonder if her friend is really her friend or someone in team Caitlyn


----------



## Sassys

ForeverYoung87 said:


> ]I highly doubt Caitlyn is worth or has the potential to be worth 500 mil. The media makes these claims and at the end of the day it's just speculation not fact since no one has the receipts to their bank account. Gisele made a comment about how the IRS audited her because of media outlets like Forbes claimed she had x amt of money when she really didn't.  My sister does PR for Pepsi and said that the rumors of Beyonce making 50 mil were complete bs. Idk if those numbers are put out by the celebs team or not but take what you read with a grain of salt.[/B]
> 
> Regarding the accident tmz has been reporting the same thing about the victims step kids not having much of a relationship with her too. They spoke to one of her "friends"....wonder if her friend is really her friend or someone in team Caitlyn


 
Exactly!


----------



## Eva1991

Sassys said:


> The said, she could make as much as 500million. No way in hell Bruce is worth 100million, and using Rob Sr. Old furniture in his house.



The fact that someone's worth x amount of money doesn't mean they have that amount of money in the bank.


----------



## Encore Hermes

His PR is putting the figure out imo, to sway  potential advertisers


----------



## Encore Hermes

Her, it was a mistake


----------



## kcf68

:boxing:


Encore Hermes said:


> Her, it was a mistake  J/K


----------



## Coach Lover Too

The way the whole thing is being handled sickens me. Now Clint Eastwood is being censored because of a comment he made? What's next, a monument in Jenner's honor?


----------



## Encore Hermes

kcf68 said:


> :boxing:
> 
> 
> Encore Hermes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her, it was a mistake  J/K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me about it. I posted on my phone at lunch and people must have thought A Skarsgärd was calling the way I dived into my bag digging for phone when I realized my 'error' and need to correct ASAP.
> 
> There is so much interesting info out about 'her' new management team, the guy who covered for then Bruce in the 80s when the cross dressing was about to leak. Fascinating reading if anyone wants to search the web.
Click to expand...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

So there were people that knew and covered up but Jenner wants everyone to believe he lived with a secret and that's why all the pretending to be male took place? So Ms. Jenner is not only a fame ho but also a liar?


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> So there were people that knew and covered up but Jenner wants everyone to believe he lived with a secret and that's why all the pretending to be male took place? So Ms. Jenner is not only a fame ho but also a liar?



Imagine that.


----------



## glamourous1098

Coach Lover Too said:


> So there were people that knew and covered up but Jenner wants everyone to believe he lived with a secret and that's why all the pretending to be male took place? So Ms. Jenner is not only a fame ho but also a liar?



It's not hard to imagine that even if a few people close to him knew, he would still want to keep up appearances, so to speak.


----------



## Chloe_chick999

Coach Lover Too said:


> The way the whole thing is being handled sickens me. Now Clint Eastwood is being censored because of a comment he made? What's next, a monument in Jenner's honor?



I just read the article. He didn't say a damn thing wrong. "Caitlyn somebody"


----------



## bag-mania

Chloe_chick999 said:


> I just read the article. He didn't say a damn thing wrong. "Caitlyn somebody"




Agreed. There's so much fear right now of being perceived as insensitive that they are overreacting.


----------



## Jayne1

This one makes a lot more sense.  The  Hummer should have a case against him too.

*CAITLYN JENNER SUED BY PRIUS DRIVER For Fatal PCH Accident*



> Caitlyn Jenner's been named in a lawsuit for the first time -- this one in connection with the fatal accident on Pacific Coast Highway.
> 
> Jessica Steindorff was driving the Prius -- the second car Jenner slammed into during the accident back in February ... and says she suffered several physical injuries. Her lawsuit does not specify the nature or extent of those injuries.
> 
> You'll recall, Jenner first hit the Lexus, driven by Kim Howe, sending her into oncoming traffic -- and then her Escalade continued down the road and plowed into the Prius. Howe was killed when the Lexus crashed head-on with a Hummer.
> 
> In addition to her medical injuries ... Steindorff says she's lost wages, and as was clear from the accident scene ... her Prius was messed up badly.
> In the docs, the defendant is listed as "Bruce Jenner a/k/a Caitlyn Jenner."
> 
> As we've reported ... Jenner's also facing a wrongful death suit from Howe's step children -- but has filed docs asking the court to throw out the case.



http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3cW653og1


----------



## Chloe_chick999

bag-mania said:


> Agreed. There's so much fear right now of being perceived as insensitive that they are overreacting.



True. I almost didn't post about Eastwood because of that fear.


----------



## Freckles1

blackkitty4378 said:


> _Teens_? I didn't know they let teens get sex changes. That's way too young. I think it's something that should definitely be more thought out.
> 
> Caitlyn said that she needs to be in therapy for a year (maybe that's because of her age) before she can even get a sex change. I'm not sure what the requirements are for someone younger but I imagine a sex change is not easily reversible the way breast implants are, for example.
> 
> I think people should get sex changes but I think it should require much more time to decide if it's really the right thing for them.




My 16 yr old has a transgendered kid in his class. Just FYI. The other kids are amazing to him/her. They honestly don't see this as a big deal. They also go to a school that there are only 100 kids in a class. They are a very tight knit group.


----------



## keodi

Sassys said:


> Agree. I almost died from BC. I had a blood clot in my lung thanks to Yazmin. Never smoked a day in my life, and only drink socially. Was in the hospital for 4 days and had to give myself blood thinner injections for 3o days, then have my blood tested every other day for Coumadin. Was NOT a fun experience. Will never take hormonal BC again.



Wow! I'm glad you're ok.


----------



## pittcat

I know it's been discussed before, but isn't the person who hits a car from behind always responsible? In this case two cars? I understand the first car stopped probably illegally, but that is what the safe driving distance "rule" is for (Is it a law? I'm not even sure) to account for people stopping, changing lanes, deer, etc to give you a couple extra seconds to react. Granted all my legal knowledge is from judge Judy and people's court, but I do remember one case where a couch fell off a car first in line the car directly behind was able to swerve the third car was not and the fourth car hit the third car and was found to be at fault even though it was caused by the first car. I just don't see how he (at the time) and now she is able to walk away from this? Were any tickets even given out? 

And then to be driving on the phone a few weeks later? Seems to show very little remorse or at the least respect for the situation/ people involved. All of this attention and positive recognition must be tearing at the people he now she has rolled over/through over the years. Especially the ESPN award which should have taken into consideration character of the person awarded. I'm not saying she is the worst person ever, but from what had been reported and what she has admitted to, it (the attention) definitely rubs me the wrong way, but I guess that's life. I just have to say I respect the hell out of her children, because reading some of their own words about their relationship and the hurt she has caused them was pretty devastating, but they were able to forgive and more forward.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Freckles1 said:


> My 16 yr old has a transgendered kid in his class. Just FYI. The other kids are amazing to him/her. They honestly don't see this as a big deal. They also go to a school that there are only 100 kids in a class. They are a very tight knit group.



That's great. I'm supportive of anyone who's transgender. I just think having the sex change (male to female genitalia and vice versa) is a big decision to make. I know most doctors won't let you do it (in the US) unless you've been seeing a therapist for at least a year.


----------



## Freckles1

blackkitty4378 said:


> That's great. I'm supportive of anyone who's transgender. I just think having the sex change (male to female genitalia and vice versa) is a big decision to make. I know most doctors won't let you do it (in the US) unless you've been seeing a therapist for at least a year.




I agree!! I was honestly shocked when my son told me about it!!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Does anybody know if Clint Eastwood read the joke from a TelePrompTer meaning it was written for him to say or did he ad-lib  it.


----------



## SpeedyJC

pittcat said:


> I know it's been discussed before, but isn't the person who hits a car from behind always responsible? In this case two cars? I understand the first car stopped probably illegally, but that is what the safe driving distance "rule" is for (Is it a law? I'm not even sure) to account for people stopping, changing lanes, deer, etc to give you a couple extra seconds to react.


 
I know in NY state if you hit from behind you are at fault. If someone hits you and then you hit the car infront if you that car can sue you.  You do need to maintain a safe driving distance if not you get ticket for following too closely.


----------



## Sassys

keodi said:


> Wow! I'm glad you're ok.



Thank you.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Freckles1 said:


> I agree!! I was honestly shocked when my son told me about it!!



That's great. The world is changing. I have high hopes for the future generations.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Can I be liable if my car is rear-ended in California?

If you are involved in an automobile accident in which your vehicle is rear-ended, most of the time, the driver that hit your car from behind will be determined to be at fault, no matter why you stopped. Fault is not codified into the State of California vehicle code. Therefore, the police determine fault when they issue their accident report. This determination is based upon the damage to the vehicles as well as the basic "rule of the road" that requires a driver to be able to stop safely if traffic stops suddenly ahead of him or her. If he or she cannot stop safely, the driver is traveling too fast, too closely, or both, and therefore in violation of the vehicle code.........

...........In California there is also a doctrine called "comparative negligence," which lets juries determine, on the basis of the facts of a particular case, whether both parties were at fault, and to what degree. If you rear-ended someone, and you are being pinned with 100% of the liability even though you think that the other driver is partially to blame, you should take the matter to court to get a determination as to whether comparative negligence applies to your accident.

http://www.californiacaraccidentrights.com/CA-rear-end-liability.htm

adding _Jenner was towing a trailer in the left lane which is not legal unless passing _


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> Agree. I almost died from BC. I had a blood clot in my lung thanks to Yazmin. Never smoked a day in my life, and only drink socially. Was in the hospital for 4 days and had to give myself blood thinner injections for 3o days, then have my blood tested every other day for Coumadin. Was NOT a fun experience. Will never take hormonal BC again.




So glad you're ok Doll! Have seen the ads on TV looking for defendants in a class action case, scary stuff!


----------



## skarsbabe

I took Yaz for a few years and it gave me the most insane migraines that debilitated me for an entire day at a time -  far worse than the cramps I had been taking it for. Stopped and haven't had a migraine since. The pill can be a scary thing!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

skarsbabe said:


> I took Yaz for a few years and it gave me the most insane migraines that debilitated me for an entire day at a time -  far worse than the cramps I had been taking it for. Stopped and haven't had a migraine since. The pill can be a scary thing!



Wasn't there a class-action for some of the women taking Yaz and Yasmin, or am I thinking of something else that had drospirenone in it ?


----------



## labelwhore04

Freckles1 said:


> I agree!! I was honestly shocked when my son told me about it!!



My cousin has 3 transgender kids in his program at college(hes in film), and theres only like 40 kids in the program. I was surprised by that!


----------



## chowlover2

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Wasn't there a class-action for some of the women taking Yaz and Yasmin, or am I thinking of something else that had drospirenone in it ?




No, I see the commercials for Yaz class action suits frequently, or at least I did.


----------



## Luvbolide

Jayne1 said:


> This one makes a lot more sense.  The  Hummer should have a case against him too.
> 
> *CAITLYN JENNER SUED BY PRIUS DRIVER For Fatal PCH Accident*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3cW653og1








When all is said and done, I would expect that every driver/passenger involved in that accident will have filed suit against Jenner.  Standard fare when you cause a bad car accident, but it always helps encourage folks to sue when you are rich and they know they can collect any money that is awarded.  It would be interesting to know what kind of insurance situation Caitlyn had...


----------



## queen

I believe in treating others as you would like to be treated and live and let live.  I do not believe in taking advantage of a deeply personal situation for money and or fame.  I wish Caitlyn well and admit I am curious but think she is taking advantage of a situation that is best left off the news and tabloids.  It is beyond a news blurb stating the facts it is now a business and an occupation.  I hope she wakes up and lives like any common 65 year old woman.  I met a 60 something transgender woman a couple of years ago who was quietly living her life.  It is possible if that is what you wish to do.  I do not think she can stand not to be the center of attention.


----------



## guccimamma

jenner is asking that the 1st wrongful death case be dismissed, because the step kids have no reason to receive money?

that woman was actively involved in charity for animals, the charity should sue on her behalf. jenner should pay for her death, even if the money isn't needed by her family. because she has no heirs, he shouldn't have to pay?

she was a lovely and charitable woman, and she is dead.  what if this were your mother/friend/grandmother?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> I believe in treating others as you would like to be treated and live and let live.  I do not believe in taking advantage of a deeply personal situation for money and or fame.  I wish Caitlyn well and admit I am curious but think she is taking advantage of a situation that is best left off the news and tabloids.  It is beyond a news blurb stating the facts it is now a business and an occupation.  I hope she wakes up and lives like any common 65 year old woman.  I met a 60 something transgender woman a couple of years ago who was quietly living her life.  It is possible if that is what you wish to do.*  I do not think she can stand not to be the center of attention.*




This.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm seeing a side of Bruce/Caitlyn that I don't like, and it has NOTHING to do with sex, gender, or anything in relation to that. It has everything to do with *CHARACTER *or lack of.
Jenner is showing her true colors on the inside and although she may appear attractive on the outside, her insides are becoming as ugly as hell.


----------



## sdkitty

guccimamma said:


> jenner is asking that the 1st wrongful death case be dismissed, because the step kids have no reason to receive money?
> 
> that woman was actively involved in charity for animals, the charity should sue on her behalf. jenner should pay for her death, even if the money isn't needed by her family. because she has no heirs, he shouldn't have to pay?
> 
> she was a lovely and charitable woman, and she is dead.  what if this were your mother/friend/grandmother?


I haven't been following this story closely but from what I can tell, Bruce (his name at the time) wasn't criminally charged and no one has proven he was at fault (at least not yet).
That said, I do think if this lawsuit is hanging over her, most people would be more than a bit preoccupied with it - whereas she is busy basking in her new-found fame (at least that's how it appears)


----------



## kittenslingerie

dangerouscurves said:


> What? You can't compare plastic surgery to transgender treatment!


Of course I can't, PC police have a double standard. Obviously my "point" is escaping you. Kids change their minds, so permanent alterations should be left for adults to make.


----------



## GaitreeS

beekmanhill said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
> 
> More in the same vein.  What does it mean to be a woman?


 
Good article. This is along the lines of what I was referring to a few pages back. So much more to being a woman than what's on the outside.


----------



## GaitreeS

coach lover too said:


> i'm seeing a side of bruce/caitlyn that i don't like, and it has nothing to do with sex, gender, or anything in relation to that. It has everything to do with *character *or lack of.
> Jenner is showing her true colors on the inside and although she may appear attractive on the outside, her insides are becoming as ugly as hell.


 
agreed!


----------



## jclaybo

Sassys said:


> Agree. I almost died from BC. I had a blood clot in my lung thanks to Yazmin. Never smoked a day in my life, and only drink socially. Was in the hospital for 4 days and had to give myself blood thinner injections for 3o days, then have my blood tested every other day for Coumadin. Was NOT a fun experience. Will never take hormonal BC again.


OMG! This happened to me also on Yaz, thought I had strained a muscle went to hospital and had a clot that had literally spread to my heart and lungs. Stayed in hospital for 5 days until my blood was at the number needed. Did Lovenex and Coumadin. Changed my life forever this was in 2010,  glad you're alive and well also and good to talk too women who have suffered through this.

-Also in regards to Caitlin the backlash that she is getting is just proof of why she never went public until now. I said this before but I truly believe Bruce's biggest fear was his father's rejection. Does anyone know when his father passed away?


----------



## Encore Hermes

guccimamma said:


> jenner is asking that the 1st wrongful death case be dismissed, because the step kids have no reason to receive money?
> 
> that woman was actively involved in charity for animals, the charity should sue on her behalf. jenner should pay for her death, even if the money isn't needed by her family. because she has no heirs, he shouldn't have to pay?
> 
> she was a lovely and charitable woman, and she is dead.  what if this were your mother/friend/grandmother?



Agree. 

I think it was TMZ who said that Kim Howe was not leaving her step children money and the source was a 'unnamed but close? friend' so imo the info is not necessarily accurate. 

But let say it is true, that the friend or neighbor read her trust. There are some wealthy people who have wonderful relationships with their family but leave their money to charity. 

 Why is everyone so positive that she didn't have a relationship with her step kids just because she left her estate to charity?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

jclaybo said:


> OMG! This happened to me also on Yaz, thought I had strained a muscle went to hospital and had a clot that had literally spread to my heart and lungs. Stayed in hospital for 5 days until my blood was at the number needed. Did Lovenex and Coumadin. Changed my life forever this was in 2010,  glad you're alive and well also and good to talk too women who have suffered through this.
> 
> -Also in regards to Caitlin the backlash that she is getting is just proof of why she never went public until now.* I said this before but I truly believe Bruce's biggest fear* *was his father's rejection*. Does anyone know when his father passed away?



If that were the case, the irony is rich, given the fact that's exactly what he did to his own children.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

kittenslingerie said:


> Of course I can't, PC police have a double standard. Obviously my "point" is escaping you. Kids change their minds, so permanent alterations should be left for adults to make.



Agree.


----------



## guccimamma

kittenslingerie said:


> Of course I can't, PC police have a double standard. Obviously my "point" is escaping you. *Kids change their minds*, so permanent alterations should be left for adults to make.



god, yes they do.  such a monumental decision.


----------



## bag-mania

jclaybo said:


> -Also in regards to Caitlin the backlash that  she is getting is just proof of why she never went public until now. I  said this before but I truly believe Bruce's biggest fear was his  father's rejection. *Does anyone know when his father passed away?*



I Googled it and it came up as December 28, 2000, but I cannot  corroborate that date with another source. If it is true then his dad  probably wasn't the issue.

I found another sad fact. I knew  Bruce's younger brother Burt died not long after he won the Olympics. I  did not know that it was because he crashed a Porsche he had borrowed  from Bruce. That crash also killed Burt Jenner's 16-year-old girlfriend.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Encore Hermes said:


> Agree.
> 
> I think it was TMZ who said that Kim Howe was not leaving her step children money and the source was a 'unnamed but close? friend' so imo the info is not necessarily accurate.
> 
> But let say it is true, that the friend or neighbor read her trust. There are some wealthy people who have wonderful relationships with their family but leave their money to charity.
> 
> Why is everyone so positive that she didn't have a relationship with her step kids just because she left her estate to charity?



TMZ said that her "friend" claimed her step children had no contact with her since 2003 when their father died. Going that long and leaving your estate to charity doesn't spell out a wonderful relationship. 

Their lawsuit says they were dependent on her. But if claims of them not talking to her for over 10 yrs are true it clearly wasn't  emotional dependence and her estate was worth 55k so how much money could she really give them If they're talking about monetary dependence. The charities can't sue on her behalf because it's not in their legal right. 


I expect the other car that hit her to also sue Caitlyn. Some of these car accidents cases are hard to win though since you have to prove permanent damage was caused directly from the accident at least it's that way in the state I live


----------



## SpeedyJC

kittenslingerie said:


> Of course I can't, PC police have a double standard. Obviously my "point" is escaping you. Kids change their minds, so permanent alterations should be left for adults to make.


 
I totally agree with that.


----------



## littlerock

ByeKitty said:


> It _is_ a big deal, and it can wreck havoc on your overall health. Some girls seem to be able to handle those hormones okay, but a dear friend of mine died - how could she have known at 16 that she was predisposed to trombosis? Now another friend of mine has been bleeding for over half a year due to hormone imbalance (after trying 7 types of pills). She is actually very ill, I'm sorry if this is TMI but last night she told me about the inch thick big globs of endometrium that come out daily. Her doctor is now trying to restore her hormone balance so that she can safely wean off of the pill. Personally I'm so happy I stopped the search for the "right pill" for me after a year.
> 
> I can see the value of the pill and how it has helped many people, but what it does to your body is not something to take lightly.



This is so off topic, but I too, stopped the pill over a decade ago. Like most young girls, I started around 16/17, and took them for a few years straight. Around 20 years old I lapsed for some reason and just wasn't using them (probably in between boyfrields or something) and when I tried to start back up, I realized how intense those hormones are! I was nauseous, tired, couldn't function. Tried a few different pills and they were all that way. I completely stopped around 22 and haven't looked back. I refuse to use any medicated BC. 

Anyway, I like that picture of the girls out by the pool. I think it's cute. I'm not sure if it was covered and I missed it, or if no one paid any attention to it, but did anyone see the story that CJ is dating Kris' old assistant? I saw it in a tabloid magazine over the weekend.


----------



## Sassys

jclaybo said:


> OMG! This happened to me also on Yaz, thought I had strained a muscle went to hospital and had a clot that had literally spread to my heart and lungs. Stayed in hospital for 5 days until my blood was at the number needed. Did Lovenex and Coumadin. Changed my life forever this was in 2010,  glad you're alive and well also and good to talk too women who have suffered through this.
> 
> -Also in regards to Caitlin the backlash that she is getting is just proof of why she never went public until now. I said this before but I truly believe Bruce's biggest fear was his father's rejection. Does anyone know when his father passed away?



Child, the back pain was out if control. Then had trouble breathing. I brushed it off thinking I hurt myself at the gym. Those lovenox injections were not fun. The woman who tested my blood every other day told me her sister died from a blood clot to the brain thanks to the birth control patch. Mine happened in 2007 and never touched a hormonal birth control again. Scared the hell out of me to think if u would have waited and ignored the pain, I would be dead. Glad you made it through too. 

Back to Caitlyn. I recall she said her dad passed 12yrs ago. I also think that was the reason he waited.


----------



## jclaybo

It was just something about the way Bruce literally changed from upbeat and optomistic to almost child like in that Diane Sawyer interview when she mentioned his dad. His dad sounded like one of those men who was probably and I hate to say this but strong homophobic. Now I am not saying anything in regards to Caitlin's preferences BUT, Bruce couldn't even get the words out to say yes or no when she asked what his father would have thought. Even if his father passed away 12 years that is 12 years I doubt he would have been like "Oh let me go ahead and transition cause dads gone and he cant disapprove." According to his Wikipedia around the years of 2003-2006 Bruce was on TV alot and doing bit parts on reality shows so he was still essentially having to be the "Bruce Jenner" everyone knew. But my point is I think he felt somewhat of a relief to start working on transitioning after his fathers death and the only hindrance would have been the public's perspective.


----------



## littlerock

I agree with the thoughts on his Dad's influence but I also think Kendall and Kylie played the biggest role in his decision to go public. I think he needed them to be (somewhat) grown up and out of the house. He was their main caregiver. I don't think he could have done that to them while they were still under his wing.

ETA: Used "he" because it's past tense. Man, this does take some getting used to!


----------



## bag-mania

*Caitlyn Jenner Lane? Towns Could Consider Renaming Streets Honoring Bruce Jenner*

 Caitlyn Jenner's debut earlier this month created a question for some cities and towns: What should happen to streets named for Bruce Jenner?

Three cities  two in Texas, one in Tennessee  have streets honoring the famed Olympian.

Officials in Olympic Heights, a small community in Austin, said in a Facebook post that if residents of the community want to change Bruce Jane Lane to Caitlyn Jenner Lane "the board has no issue." The board said that the switch was not being actively pursued, though.

And at least a few residents don't like the idea.

"Thank you for not pursuing it. Bruce was the Olympian, not Caitlyn. What a headache it would be if we all had to change our addresses," Alicia Bribiesca Lemon said in a comment on the Facebook post.

Another commenter pointed out that street names aren't changed when the namesakes get married and change their last names.

Eladia Rosario, 49, who lives on Bruce Jenner Drive in Clarksville, Tennessee, was indifferent. 

 "It wouldn't bother me," she told NBC News. "A name is a name."

Still, she admitted, dealing with the change of address "would be a big hassle." 

 Jennifer Rawls, the director of communications for the city of Clarksville, said there has been no push to change the name of the street.

Bianca Duran, who lives on Bruce Jenner Lane in El Paso, isn't about to ask for a street name change either. 

 "I don't think they should change the name, because the street was named after he was an Olympian, and who he is now doesn't change who he was in the past," Duran told NBC Dallas-Fort Worth.

Jaime Alvarado, who has lived on Bruce Jenner Lane for 20 years, also weighed in.

"If he changes his name, we should change our street name too. Let's find another idol," Alvarado told NBC affiliate KTSM.

Irma Lopez, a spokesman for the city of El Paso, told NBC News that there are no plans to change the name of Bruce Jenner Lane to Caitlyn Jenner Lane  or anything else.

As for Caitlyn Jenner's name in the official Olympic records, she will likely have the privilege of deciding what name will appear. Patrick Sandusky, the Olympic Committee's chief communications officer, said the committee "would happily consider" any athlete's request for a change of personal information.

"We admire Caitlyn Jenner's courage and wish her all the best," Sandusky said. "We would happily consider any athlete's request to have his or her personal information updated in our records." 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ds-about-changing-streets-named-after-n372226


----------



## whimsic

^ how would that even work?! Bruce competed in the men's category, that can't be changed no matter who he/she is now. How can they update their records to indicate a woman winning a men's competition?


----------



## littlerock

^ They can't and won't. It's a non-issue story. A story just for the sake of printing a story. Besides, they are talking about street signs, not the official records/ books of who's won competitions. But, even then, it's a non story because it doesn't look like anyone really cares about the street name or change.

ETA: I missed the bottom section. Even if they changed the name of who won, it doesn't change the gender at the time of winning.


----------



## bag-mania

^^I think the Olympic Committee's CCO means that they would consider making a name change to the records if requested, not a change to the category.


----------



## Luvbolide

ForeverYoung87 said:


> TMZ said that her "friend" claimed her step children had no contact with her since 2003 when their father died. Going that long and leaving your estate to charity doesn't spell out a wonderful relationship.
> 
> Their lawsuit says they were dependent on her. But if claims of them not talking to her for over 10 yrs are true it clearly wasn't  emotional dependence and her estate was worth 55k so how much money could she really give them If they're talking about monetary dependence. The charities can't sue on her behalf because it's not in their legal right.
> 
> 
> I expect the other car that hit her to also sue Caitlyn. Some of these car accidents cases are hard to win though since you have to prove permanent damage was caused directly from the accident at least it's that way in the state I live





In California one doesn't have to claim permanent damage to file a lawsuit as a result of a car accident.  As I posted earlier - I expect that all of the other drivers and passengers will end up suing for injuries and damages received in the accident.  This was a bad accident with some pretty serious vehicle damage which indicates the likelihood of injuries to the occupants of those vehicles.  Obviously, the most severe damage was to Mrs. Howe.

As far as her death, her stepkids have standing to sue for any financial losses as well as for the loss of the relationship (essentially).  There have been numerous reports that her stepkids had no contact with her in years, so ultimately they may well not end up recovering anything.  

Others involved in the accident can recover for any injuries, for damage to the vehicles and for any lost wages, as well as for pain & suffering.  Pain & suffering varies widely depending on the severity of the injury, which will likely range from soft tissue on up.  There is no award for pain & suffering in wrongful death cases in California.

It will probably be a couple of years (best estimate between 2 and 5) for the cases to all be resolved.  As far as filing, they have a year from the date of the accident, so the pace of filings should pick up as the accident anniversary date approaches.  Meantime, the lawyers can be talking about a settlement before a filing is even necessary.


----------



## GoGlam

Luvbolide said:


> In California one doesn't have to claim permanent damage to file a lawsuit as a result of a car accident.  As I posted earlier - I expect that all of the other drivers and passengers will end up suing for injuries and damages received in the accident.  This was a bad accident with some pretty serious vehicle damage which indicates the likelihood of injuries to the occupants of those vehicles.  Obviously, the most severe damage was to Mrs. Howe.
> 
> As far as her death, her stepkids have standing to sue for any financial losses as well as for the loss of the relationship (essentially).  There have been numerous reports that her stepkids had no contact with her in years, so ultimately they may well not end up recovering anything.
> 
> Others involved in the accident can recover for any injuries, for damage to the vehicles and for any lost wages, as well as for pain & suffering.  Pain & suffering varies widely depending on the severity of the injury, which will likely range from soft tissue on up.  There is no award for pain & suffering in wrongful death cases in California.
> 
> It will probably be a couple of years (best estimate between 2 and 5) for the cases to all be resolved.  As far as filing, they have a year from the date of the accident, so the pace of filings should pick up as the accident anniversary date approaches.  Meantime, the lawyers can be talking about a settlement before a filing is even necessary.




Car accident cases usually get resolved within 9 months. With that said, if there are criminal charges of any sort then the civil suits will usually be pending the outcome of the criminal case.  Then add that there are multiple suits probably filed, it might complicate things in terms of timing and Jenner's deniability, etc.  so I think you're right, it could be several years before this comes to a close.


----------



## QueenLouis

guccimamma said:


> god, yes they do.  such a monumental decision.




I have a friend who has young sons with a transgender friend. Born a girl, lives as a boy. The parents are going to take steps to prevent the child from going through female puberty. Can that be healthy???


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner underwent a powerful transformation, partly with the help of her plastic surgeons.

And the 65-year-old made sure to express her gratitude by gifting at least one of them, Dr. Harrison H. Lee, with a personalised copy of her iconic Vanity Fair feature.

'To Harrison, Great Job Thank you so much Caitlyn Jenner,' she penned on the cover of one of the glossy magazines.

'So impressed by my boss Dr Harrison Lee's phenomenal work and being part of Caitlyn's transformation. #caitlynjenner #drharrisonlee #vanityfair #transgender #realself #loveit,' Harrison's employee Vilma wrote on Instagram with a snap of the two sitting side by side while holding up the signed publication.

Prior to the post, the massively renowned plastic surgeons who made Caitlyn's incredible Vanity Fair reveal of her post-feminization body possible came forward to say they are thrilled with the results.

Drs. Gary J. Alter and Harrison, both surgeons with prestigious practices in New York and California, say they were honored to do the face and body surgeries that helped the Olympian once known as Bruce turn to the world and say 'Call me Caitlyn.'

'She's extremely happy with the results, and we are too,' Dr. Alter told the New York Daily News.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...zed-copy-Vanity-Fair-cover.html#ixzz3ceMKOHD7


----------



## lh211

QueenLouis said:


> I have a friend who has young sons with a transgender friend. Born a girl, lives as a boy. The parents are going to take steps to prevent the child from going through female puberty. Can that be healthy???



I read an interesting article on this topic, and the general consensus appeared to be that it's a physically easier transition if done so by preventing puberty. I guess it's seen as prevention is better than cure? 

Obviously it complicates things greatly if the child decides to change their mind after puberty.


----------



## papertiger

beekmanhill said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
> 
> More in the same vein.  What does it mean to be a woman?



My turn to thank _you_ for pointing out another great article (only just had time to read it fully).


----------



## lh211

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner underwent a powerful transformation, partly with the help of her plastic surgeons.
> 
> And the 65-year-old made sure to express her gratitude by gifting at least one of them, Dr. Harrison H. Lee, with a personalised copy of her iconic Vanity Fair feature.
> 
> 'To Harrison, Great Job Thank you so much Caitlyn Jenner,' she penned on the cover of one of the glossy magazines.
> 
> 'So impressed by my boss Dr Harrison Lee's phenomenal work and being part of Caitlyn's transformation. #caitlynjenner #drharrisonlee #vanityfair #transgender #realself #loveit,' Harrison's employee Vilma wrote on Instagram with a snap of the two sitting side by side while holding up the signed publication.
> 
> Prior to the post, the massively renowned plastic surgeons who made Caitlyn's incredible Vanity Fair reveal of her post-feminization body possible came forward to say they are thrilled with the results.
> 
> Drs. Gary J. Alter and Harrison, both surgeons with prestigious practices in New York and California, say they were honored to do the face and body surgeries that helped the Olympian once known as Bruce turn to the world and say 'Call me Caitlyn.'
> 
> 'She's extremely happy with the results, and we are too,' Dr. Alter told the New York Daily News.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...zed-copy-Vanity-Fair-cover.html#ixzz3ceMKOHD7



Interesting that Caitlyn is sitting in a "masculine" way with legs apart.... I suppose these little gender characteristics are hard to get rid of after that amount of time.


----------



## schadenfreude

lh211 said:


> Interesting that Caitlyn is sitting in a "masculine" way with legs apart.... I suppose these little gender characteristics are hard to get rid of after that amount of time.



Thank God someone else said it first.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Ehh.. not sitting with legs apart is more of a gender role or expectation.

I think it's BS. Unless of course you have a skirt on, then it's just good taste not to show your vagina.


----------



## ByeKitty

lh211 said:


> Interesting that Caitlyn is sitting in a "masculine" way with legs apart.... I suppose these little gender characteristics are hard to get rid of after that amount of time.



I sit like that all the time and I'm a girl... I think that if Caitlyn took on the overly cliche "feminine" mannerisms people wouldn't be pleased either. It seems like one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situations.

On the opposite of the spectrum, I have read some things like "being a woman is more than wearing nail polish" or something to that extent. Well duh, of course it is. But I can imagine trying to look as typically "feminine" as possible when introducing Caitlyn, to radically break away from "Bruce".


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Bob Costas rips ESPN over Caitlyn Jenner getting Arthur Ashe award at ESPYs: A 'crass exploitation play'*



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...rd-exploitation-play-costas-article-1.2252565


*Could NOT agree more.*


----------



## Jayne1

lh211 said:


> Interesting that Caitlyn is sitting in a "masculine" way with legs apart.... I suppose these little gender characteristics are hard to get rid of after that amount of time.



I noticed that too.


----------



## Eva1991

ByeKitty said:


> I sit like that all the time and I'm a girl... I think that if Caitlyn took on the overly cliche "feminine" mannerisms people wouldn't be pleased either. It seems like one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situations.
> 
> On the opposite of the spectrum, I have read some things like "being a woman is more than wearing nail polish" or something to that extent. Well duh, of course it is. But I can imagine trying to look as typically "feminine" as possible when introducing Caitlyn, to radically break away from "Bruce".



+1

I think Caitlyn needs to take some time to adjust to her new life as a female. She was living as a man for 65 years and it's hard to learn new mannerisms at her age.


----------



## QueenLouis

Eva1991 said:


> +1
> 
> I think Caitlyn needs to take some time to adjust to her new life as a female. She was living as a man for 65 years and it's hard to learn new mannerisms at her age.




Why would one need to learn new mannerisms? Wouldn't that just support gender stereotypes?


----------



## ForeverYoung87

ByeKitty said:


> I sit like that all the time and I'm a girl... I think that if Caitlyn took on the overly cliche "feminine" mannerisms people wouldn't be pleased either. It seems like one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situations.
> 
> On the opposite of the spectrum, I have read some things like "being a woman is more than wearing nail polish" or something to that extent. Well duh, of course it is. But I can imagine trying to look as typically "feminine" as possible when introducing Caitlyn, to radically break away from "Bruce".



This. And I can see the resemblance to Kendall in that pic


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I think she should live her life in private like she said she wanted to. She's done everything but.
The attention is going to her head and she's turning into a *K* right before our eyes.


----------



## lh211

ByeKitty said:


> I sit like that all the time and I'm a girl... I think that if Caitlyn took on the overly cliche "feminine" mannerisms people wouldn't be pleased either. It seems like one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situations.
> 
> On the opposite of the spectrum, I have read some things like "being a woman is more than wearing nail polish" or something to that extent. Well duh, of course it is. But I can imagine trying to look as typically "feminine" as possible when introducing Caitlyn, to radically break away from "Bruce".



I think it might be a case of she simply forgets or it isn't a natural mannerism to her. After all, children/young adults take years to learn our societal gender expectations.


----------



## lh211

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think she should live her life in private like she said she wanted to. She's done everything but.
> The attention is going to her head and she's turning into a *K* right before our eyes.



Saying one thing and doing the opposite it a K trait.


----------



## lh211

QueenLouis said:


> Why would one need to learn new mannerisms? Wouldn't that just support gender stereotypes?



That is a whole other debate!!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> *Bob Costas rips ESPN over Caitlyn Jenner getting Arthur Ashe award at ESPYs: A 'crass exploitation play'*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...rd-exploitation-play-costas-article-1.2252565
> 
> 
> *Could NOT agree more.*




I agree.  I'm was scratching my head thinking "why all of a sudden NOW he's getting this award?"


----------



## BagOuttaHell

ESPN is a joke most of the time.


----------



## bisousx

blackkitty4378 said:


> Ehh.. not sitting with legs apart is more of a gender role or expectation.
> 
> I think it's BS. Unless of course you have a skirt on, then it's just good taste not to show your vagina.



Lol! This.


----------



## VickyB

Not nearly as attractive or convincing as a woman here compared to the VF cover  but we all expected the VF cover would be a one off   Still  waiting for some honest to goodness pap shots of grocery store and star bucks runs.


----------



## shiny_things

lh211 said:


> Interesting that Caitlyn is sitting in a "masculine" way with legs apart.... I suppose these little gender characteristics are hard to get rid of after that amount of time.



That's normal. It slowly changes over time, or in Caitlyn's case it may never change if she's sat like that for so long.

The biggest giveaway for a transgender person is usually the hands. They are almost impossible to do anything about, so unless they have hads that are already built similar to their identifying gender, then it's normally their only 'tell' if the transition has been a good one.


----------



## DesigningStyle

lh211 said:


> Interesting that Caitlyn is sitting in a "masculine" way with legs apart.... I suppose these little gender characteristics are hard to get rid of after that amount of time.



I agree.  I suspect since she still has all that "man junk" it is not as comfy to squeeze it all by crossing legs!


----------



## DesigningStyle

lh211 said:


> That is a whole other debate!!



You are so right.  LOL!


----------



## DesigningStyle

VickyB said:


> Not nearly as attractive or convincing as a woman here compared to the VF cover  but we all expected the VF cover would be a one off   Still  waiting for some honest to goodness pap shots of grocery store and star bucks runs.



I so agree.  This photo just looks like Bruce in a wig and lipstick.  The fantasy photos from VF are just that...fantasy!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Entertainment Tonight:  Caitlyn Jenner Steps Out Looking Amazing to Give Motivational Speech to Transgender Youths


----------



## bag-mania

When you are 65 age is going to show in your neck and face, even with all the surgeries.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

I kinda like the outfit with the boots and jeans...


----------



## littlerock

Interestingly, Caitlyn's style is so much classier than the K ladies. I love her looks.


----------



## Sassys

Kitties Are Cute said:


> I kinda like the outfit with the boots and jeans...


----------



## bag-mania

The media appears to be striving for as many different ways to keep Caitlyn in the news as possible.  Yesterday we had the story on Bruce Jenner street signs. Today's installment: Caitlyn Jenner tattoos.



> *North Carolina Man Gets Caitlyn Jenner Tattoo on Arm*
> 
> In a former life, Caitlyn Jenner adorned the front of Wheaties boxes. Now, she's on the cover of Vanity Fair  and on the arm of one very passionate supporter.
> 
> Greensboro, North Carolina, resident Jason Hatfield got Jenner's magazine cover image tattooed on his left forearm Tuesday to show solidarity with her after her gender transition.
> 
> "Caitlyn Jenner's been so brave," Hatfield, who is gay, told NBC News affiliate WXII in North Carolina. "As an athlete and everything that was done before she came out, she was incredible. And now she's a thousand times the role model a Kardashian is!"
> 
> The tattoo, which took four hours to complete, is "my tribute not only to the transsexual community and the LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender] community and my personal friends, but also their bravery as well," he said.
> 
> Jenner, 65, first appeared as a woman on the cover of the June 1 issue of Vanity Fair, in a picture taken by renowned photographer Annie Leibovitz. The caption  which read "Call Me Caitlyn"  introduced the world to the person Jenner had previously only referred to as "her" in a deeply personal interview in April with ABC News' Diane Sawyer. Jenner still identified as male and went by Bruce at the time of the interview.
> 
> The former Olympian who in 1978 graced the "Breakfast of Champions" cereal box confessed to Sawyer that "I've always been confused with my gender identity."
> 
> In recent years, Jenner was better known as the eye-rolling father in the "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" clan who somewhat faded into the background of the fast-paced lives of the Kardashians and Jenner children.
> 
> Chuckling, Jenner told Sawyer that throughout the hundreds of episodes of the show that focused on the rest of the family, "I had the story."
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lgbt-advocate-gets-caitlyn-jenner-tattoo-arm-n373131


----------



## Lounorada

DesigningStyle said:


> Entertainment Tonight:  Caitlyn Jenner Steps Out Looking Amazing to Give Motivational Speech to Transgender Youths




I like that she's dressed comfortably and completely normal and not like a try-hard mess as the K's are _always_ dressed.


----------



## lh211

littlerock said:


> Interestingly, Caitlyn's style is so much classier than the K ladies. I love her looks.



It's not hard though


----------



## littlerock

lh211 said:


> It's not hard though



True story.


----------



## Ms.parker123

For 65 I do think she looks great, her features aren't to mannish either. I think she looks like an age appropriate women!


----------



## Eva1991

Like her last outfit. She looks casual and effortless.


----------



## exotikittenx

lh211 said:


> Interesting that Caitlyn is sitting in a "masculine" way with legs apart.... I suppose these little gender characteristics are hard to get rid of after that amount of time.





schadenfreude said:


> Thank God someone else said it first.




What? Really? That is just perpetuating gender roles.  Many women sit with their legs apart, myself included.  Men also cross their legs *gasp*.  I've seen many European men sit that way, especially. People should sit how they are comfortable and not give a damn whether it is masculine or feminine.


----------



## schadenfreude

exotikittenx said:


> What? Really? That is just perpetuating gender roles.  Many women sit with their legs apart, myself included.  Men also cross their legs *gasp*.  I've seen many European men sit that way, especially. People should sit how they are comfortable and not give a damn whether it is masculine or feminine.



Well, clearly she doesn't give a damn.


----------



## Jayne1

I didn't realize how pretty she would be with lots of makeup  because bare faced, she wasn't pretty. 

At the same time, I don't really see a face, I see nose job, injected lips, weave, wig (what is that thing?  It looks very natural, but we know it's not) eye lift she's a man made miracle.

See, I've seen Bruce's face for so many decades, I can't not look for what it is that's different.


----------



## tweegy

[emoji52]well she wasn't kidding when she said she could dress Kim and show her a thing or two...she's awfully chic


----------



## Jayne1

Slender, slim hipped and over 6' --  she's got the basics for wearing clothes well.


----------



## GoGlam

How did Perez Hilton basically know about Caitlyn? I think he was the first person to call her out, using the name Bruce-Tina yeaaaarrrrss ago.


----------



## japanesedong

despite the face change still sits macho... how bout cross leg or


----------



## blackkitty4378

Go Caitlyn!


----------



## blackkitty4378

exotikittenx said:


> What? Really? That is just perpetuating gender roles.  Many women sit with their legs apart, myself included.  Men also cross their legs *gasp*.  I've seen many European men sit that way, especially. People should sit how they are comfortable and not give a damn whether it is masculine or feminine.





Right on. If I ever had a daughter, I would not raise her with those BS gender roles that were shoved down my throat. Plus, sitting with your legs crossed all of the time is not good for your circulation or your body. Also, you gotta let it BREATHE sometimes. :giggles:


----------



## Katel

DesigningStyle said:


> Entertainment Tonight:  Caitlyn Jenner Steps Out Looking Amazing to Give Motivational Speech to Transgender Youths





She looks exactly like a cross between Kelly Bensimon and the Countess on RHONY!


----------



## Katel

blackkitty4378 said:


> Go Caitlyn!



yes! +1


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> At the same time, I don't really see a face, I see nose job, injected lips, weave, wig (what is that thing?  It looks very natural, but we know it's not) eye lift she's a man made miracle.



I wouldn't expect anything else from a 60-something Hollywood "actress".


----------



## Coach Lover Too

When I see that pic, the first thing that comes to my mind is Areosmith's *That dude looks like a lady* song.


----------



## Poth

tweegy said:


> [emoji52]well she wasn't kidding when she said she could dress Kim and show her a thing or two...she's awfully chic


Totally agree!


----------



## blackkitty4378

When I saw the VF pictures the song that was stuck in my head was "She's a lady&#8230; woah woah woah. She's a lady."


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

And the lady is miiiine! Lol


----------



## DivineMissM

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think she should live her life in private like she said she wanted to. She's done everything but.
> The attention is going to her head and she's turning into a *K* right before our eyes.



Is anyone really surprised though? 



VickyB said:


> Not nearly as attractive or convincing as a woman here compared to the VF cover  but we all expected the VF cover would be a one off   Still  waiting for some honest to goodness pap shots of grocery store and star bucks runs.



Not at all.  Those pics were photoshopped to hell and back.



bag-mania said:


> The media appears to be striving for as many different ways to keep Caitlyn in the news as possible.  Yesterday we had the story on Bruce Jenner street signs. Today's installment: Caitlyn Jenner tattoos.



Oh Lord.  



Lounorada said:


> I like that she's dressed comfortably and completely normal and not like a try-hard mess as the K's are _always_ dressed.



Maybe after a few more procedures she'll start.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

jimmyshoogirl said:


> And the lady is miiiine! Lol



Love that song!


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

I forget she's 65. For 65, she looks really good. Of course it's because of all the work/surgery/makeup, but even born-women who've had ton of surgery don't look as good.


----------



## Jayne1

Kitties Are Cute said:


> I forget she's 65. For 65, she looks really good. Of course it's because of all the work/surgery/makeup, but even born-women who've had ton of surgery don't look as good.


I agree, but I also saw a promo for her reality show and the lines and fillers were really noticeable.  Those pictures from far away look great though.


----------



## papertiger

Jayne1 said:


> Slender, slim hipped and over 6' --  she's got the basics for wearing clothes well.



Oh the irony :sunnies


----------



## Lounorada

DivineMissM said:


> Maybe after a few more procedures she'll start.



So true! Time will tell


----------



## ChanelMommy

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner underwent a powerful transformation, partly with the help of her plastic surgeons.
> 
> And the 65-year-old made sure to express her gratitude by gifting at least one of them, Dr. Harrison H. Lee, with a personalised copy of her iconic Vanity Fair feature.
> 
> 'To Harrison, Great Job Thank you so much Caitlyn Jenner,' she penned on the cover of one of the glossy magazines.
> 
> 'So impressed by my boss Dr Harrison Lee's phenomenal work and being part of Caitlyn's transformation. #caitlynjenner #drharrisonlee #vanityfair #transgender #realself #loveit,' Harrison's employee Vilma wrote on Instagram with a snap of the two sitting side by side while holding up the signed publication.
> 
> Prior to the post, the massively renowned plastic surgeons who made Caitlyn's incredible Vanity Fair reveal of her post-feminization body possible came forward to say they are thrilled with the results.
> 
> Drs. Gary J. Alter and Harrison, both surgeons with prestigious practices in New York and California, say they were honored to do the face and body surgeries that helped the Olympian once known as Bruce turn to the world and say 'Call me Caitlyn.'
> 
> 'She's extremely happy with the results, and we are too,' Dr. Alter told the New York Daily News.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...zed-copy-Vanity-Fair-cover.html#ixzz3ceMKOHD7



In this photo 'she' looks like a man with makeup on. VF was so photoshopped beyond belief. Even down to the way 'she' sits.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ChanelMommy said:


> In this photo 'she' looks like a man with makeup on. VF was so photoshopped beyond belief. Even down to the way 'she' sits.



Agree. Jenner may feel like a woman, but in my opinion, still looks like a cross dresser.


----------



## DesigningStyle

ChanelMommy said:


> In this photo 'she' looks like a man with makeup on. VF was so photoshopped beyond belief. Even down to the way 'she' sits.





Coach Lover Too said:


> Agree. Jenner may feel like a woman, but in my opinion, still looks like a cross dresser.



I agree.  A few pages back I commented, "This photo just looks like Bruce in a wig and lipstick. The fantasy photos from VF are just that...fantasy!"

Maybe Caitlyn needs to hire Kris and Kim's Photoshop-photographer!


----------



## QueenLouis

ChanelMommy said:


> In this photo 'she' looks like a man with makeup on. VF was so photoshopped beyond belief. Even down to the way 'she' sits.




It's always the case with magazines isn't it. Even born-women are photoshopped to unrealistic ideals.


----------



## skarsbabe

Coach Lover Too said:


> When I see that pic, the first thing that comes to my mind is Areosmith's *That dude looks like a lady* song.



Secretly hoping this will be the theme song to their show...


----------



## jess236

Coach Lover Too said:


> Agree. Jenner may feel like a woman, but in my opinion, still looks like a cross dresser.



I agree. The first time I just happened to glance at the Vanity Fair cover, I thought who is this guy in drag?  This is before I knew that it was Bruce Jenner.


----------



## guccimamma

this is the caitlyn i expected to see.


----------



## QueenLouis

guccimamma said:


> this is the caitlyn i expected to see.




I love her!!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> this is the caitlyn i expected to see.



Omg you're on a roll today!


----------



## bag-mania

I debated whether to post this in the Caitlyn thread or the Miley thread, but decided Caitlyn because I cannot bear bumping Miley's thread up to the top again. 

Behold Miley's "art" as tribute to Caitlyn Jenner!



> *Miley Cyrus Makes Caitlyn Jenner Art With Vanity Fair Cover*
> Mileys new muse! *Miley Cyrus* seems to have found new inspiration in *Caitlyn Jenner*s _Vanity Fair_  cover. The Wrecking Ball singer, 22, shared a series of new art  pieces via Instagram, all centered around the former Olympians historic  photo shoot with *Annie Leibovitz*.
> Caitlyn got a paint job, the former Disney star captioned a photo of her first piece on Tuesday, June 9.
> Other works of Cyrus art were also shared with the captions,  #callmecaitlyn #dirtyhippieXhappyhippie @happyhippiefdn  @caitlynjenner, and, Werk in progress #dirtyhippieXhappyhippie  #callmecaitlyn.
> All of the shots are centered around Jenners instantly iconic cover, to  which Cyrus added vibrantly colored paint, markers, gels, sequins, and  glitter.
> Cyrus previously displayed her Dirty Hippie art collection at New York  Fashion Week in September during the Jeremy Scott show.
> 
> http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/miley-cyrus-caitlyn-jenner-art-vanity-fair-cover-pics-2015116​​​​​​


​
​
​
​
​​


----------



## littlerock

Isn't it strange how life turns out? I mean, can anyone honestly say they saw this coming? BJ (now CJ) on the cover of VF in lingerie and MC painting her image in glitter and sequines? I mean, you can't make this ish up!!


----------



## CobaltBlu

littlerock said:


> Isn't it strange how life turns out? I mean, can anyone honestly say they saw this coming? BJ (now CJ) on the cover of VF in lingerie and MC painting her image in glitter and sequines? I mean, you can't make this ish up!!





So true!


----------



## VickyB

jess236 said:


> i agree. The first time i just happened to glance at the vanity fair cover, i thought who is this guy in drag?  This is before i knew that it was bruce jenner.



ita


----------



## tweegy

littlerock said:


> Isn't it strange how life turns out? I mean, can anyone honestly say they saw this coming? BJ (now CJ) on the cover of VF in lingerie and MC painting her image in glitter and sequines? I mean, you can't make this ish up!!




I second this, it has crossed my mind several times.. That's what makes it even more surreal lol. 


Life sure is something else...


----------



## GaitreeS

tweegy said:


> I second this, it has crossed my mind several times.. That's what makes it even more surreal lol.
> 
> 
> Life sure is something else...


 
I always say, real life is scarier than anything I will ever see on TV...I guess I should say stranger than anything in this case


----------



## tweegy

GaitreeS said:


> I always say, real life is scarier than anything I will ever see on TV...I guess I should say stranger than anything in this case




You got that right


----------



## shiny_things

I'm sure Caitlyn is aware of the aesthetics of her transition. She's not going to suddenly look like a flawless woman overnight. But I think considering her age (remember transitioning is a lot easier aesthetically the younger you are) she looks fantastic.

FYI, saying to a transgender person that they still look like their birth gender or 'a man in a wig' or whatever is pretty much one of the most offensive things you can say.


----------



## QueenLouis

shiny_things said:


> I'm sure Caitlyn is aware of the aesthetics of her transition. She's not going to suddenly look like a flawless woman overnight. But I think considering her age (remember transitioning is a lot easier aesthetically the younger you are) she looks fantastic.
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, saying to a transgender person that they still look like their birth gender or 'a man in a wig' or whatever is pretty much one of the most offensive things you can say.




But she's a celebrity putting themselves in the limelight. People bash the Kardashians aplenty too.

I have a friend of a friend transitioning at middle age. (Now) she neither looks nor sounds like a woman. I would never dream of saying anything to her because I have no reason to want to hurt her feelings. But the fact is that she still totally appears to be a man.


----------



## Bentley1

littlerock said:


> Isn't it strange how life turns out? I mean, can anyone honestly say they saw this coming? BJ (now CJ) on the cover of VF in lingerie and MC painting her image in glitter and sequines? I mean, you can't make this ish up!!




Lol, I'm still in shock. Never saw this coming.


----------



## ByeKitty

I don't think Caitlyn looks super mannish though, after all the procedures. I mean the large hands (and general build) and low voice are a dead giveaway, but I actually think they did a great job with the face.


----------



## BadAzzBish

QueenLouis said:


> But she's a celebrity putting themselves in the limelight. People bash the Kardashians aplenty too.
> 
> I have a friend of a friend transitioning at middle age. (Now) she neither looks nor sounds like a woman. I would never dream of saying anything to her because I have no reason to want to hurt her feelings. *But the fact is that she still totally appears to be a man*.



But there are many women that look like men. I've read/heard many comments about Khloe looking like a drag queen (man in woman's clothes), same thing with Serena Williams. Aesthetics (attractiveness) don't boil down to gender. In the end, it's all about what makes someone happy. If Caitlyn is happier than Bruce, I applaud her!


----------



## DesigningStyle

shiny_things said:


> FYI, saying to a transgender person that they still look like their birth gender or 'a man in a wig' or whatever is pretty much one of the most offensive things you can say.



Did I really need an FYI on that?  Just calling it as I see it.  Of course I would never tell Caitlyn that.  If she asked, I would be honest and tell her my opinion.  I will gossip about her in this thread though!


----------



## nori west

beekmanhill said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/o...region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
> 
> More in the same vein.  What does it mean to be a woman?



Older post, but this article articulates a lot of what I am feeling, at this point in time. 

When I see Caitlin, with the cameras following her around for her reality television show (which, allegedly E! has paid top dollar for), I can't help but wonder if Caitlin's message is going to be a net positive. Based on what I read in the Vanity Fair article, I do feel that Caitlin is not a self-aware person at all. I think the show could be a bit of a trainwreck.


----------



## bag-mania

nori west said:


> Based on what I read in the Vanity Fair article, I do feel that Caitlin is not a self-aware person at all. *I think the show could be a bit of a trainwreck.*




You know E! must be hoping for exactly that. What are the chances the show will be about a smooth, uneventful transition from male to female? No, they will want lots of drama, whether genuine or manufactured.


----------



## lizmil

bag-mania said:


> You know E! must be hoping for exactly that. What are the chances the show will be about a smooth, uneventful transition from male to female? No, they will want lots of drama, whether genuine or manufactured.



This all day. The bigger the trainwreck, the higher the ratings.


----------



## nori west

bag-mania said:


> You know E! must be hoping for exactly that. What are the chances the show will be about a smooth, uneventful transition from male to female? No, they will want lots of drama, whether genuine or manufactured.





lizmil said:


> This all day. The bigger the trainwreck, the higher the ratings.



Agreed. I think the show won't just be Caitlyn going around giving inspirational speeches, and cutesy road trips with her new girlfriends. That adds up to a total snooze fest. Caitlyn knows how to play the reality tv game... she said as much in the Vanity Fair article, which is why she was genuinely annoyed that the Jenner kids would not participate in the show.


----------



## pixiejenna

I honestly think for her age(mid 60's) she looks feminine. As women age they tend to look more masculine because of the hormonal changes that happen with menopause. Don't flame me I'm not saying every elderly women looks like a man.


----------



## Caz71

guccimamma said:


> this is the caitlyn i expected to see.



Lol. She is funny.


----------



## Florasun

Seriously??

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/..._he_corrects_twitter_users_who_misgender.html


----------



## MJDaisy

Katel said:


> She looks exactly like a cross between Kelly Bensimon and the Countess on RHONY!



love this! she looks fabulous. i wasn't sure when i saw the cover if it was just photoshopping but she does look feminine to me! you do you caitlyn!


----------



## dangerouscurves

See, if you actually start the hormones therapy when you are a teenager you wouldn't have to go through these dangerous feminization plastic surgeries.


----------



## Jayne1

pixiejenna said:


> I honestly think for her age(mid 60's) she looks feminine. As women age they tend to look more masculine because of the hormonal changes that happen with menopause. Don't flame me I'm not saying every elderly women looks like a man.



And the reverse. Men can look more feminine. (Paul McCartney used to be cute!)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DesigningStyle said:


> Did I really need an FYI on that?  Just calling it as I see it.  Of course I would never tell Caitlyn that.  If she asked, I would be honest and tell her my opinion.  I will gossip about her in this thread though!



Add me to this. I've never been one to sugarcoat things and I'm not starting now.
I seriously doubt Jenner is losing sleep over it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> this is the caitlyn i expected to see.



I expected her to look like the woman that was taking the photos.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I expected her to look like the woman that was taking the photos.



Annie?  I kinda did too, but I do think Caitlyn, with all that makeup, looks very pretty.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> Annie?  I kinda did too, but I do think Caitlyn, with all that makeup, looks very pretty.



I agree. MUCH better than expected.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Speaking of the new girlfriends and road trip, did E cast them or were they _really _ her friends? 

Like all of a sudden she has a posse of [Del]BTFs[/Del] BGFs


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Reading the VF article reminded me of the love & good times Kris & I shared for so many years. Wouldn&#8217;t trade that time for anything!


https://twitter.com/Caitlyn_Jenner/status/609487944265658368


----------



## Encore Hermes

I have been waiting for him to speak out 
The clips are on utube Search Jenner family guy

Earlier this month, Caitlyn Jenner introduced herself to the world with a 22-page Vanity Fair photo shoot. Jenner had only publicly come out as transgender back in April in an interview with Diane Sawyer, which led many to wonder: Did "Family Guy" actually know about this years ago?

Recently, "Family Guy" clips have resurfaced that some are saying predicted Jenner's transition. In one clip from 2009, Stewie Griffin calls Jenner "an elegant, beautiful Dutch woman." In another, Jenner dances provocatively for a crowd while Peter Griffin says, "Just wanted to remind you fellas what you're all fighting for."

When asked how the jokes came about during a recent "Ted 2" conference call, "Family Guy" creator Seth MacFarlane said he's "too savvy to comment on the issue to the media." He explained, "Once the outrage industry shuts down, I will be happy to have an adult conversation about all of this stuff anytime anyone wants, but, even though Im on the side of support, I just dont think theres any way to  you just got to play it safe because the climate is just too charged. Anything I say can and will be used against me."

The comedian added, "My philosophy is live and let live, and if something makes someone happy, and they're able to do it -- as long as it isnt hurting anybody -- live and let live."

During the call, MacFarlane also addressed political correctness in comedy, saying that most of the perceived outrage over jokes comes from the media, not the public. He added, "Nobody sets out to -- at least I dont -- nobody sets out to offend or shock for the sake of shocking. You set out to get laughs."


----------



## Encore Hermes

Can't edit my post above, for whatever reason, here is link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...aitlyn-jenner-family-guy-clips_n_7572498.html


----------



## SWlife

I'm of two minds about this. Caitlyn lived for 65 years as a man, married 3(?) times, fathered a pile of children and is now transgender. I understand all the "I've always felt like I was a woman" but I can't help but worry. She's taken a huge and very public step, involving surgery. What if this turns out to be a mistake? 
This was such a gigantic life change. I hope & pray that this brings her tremendous happiness, because I cannot fathom how she would recover from this if it turns out to be the wrong thing.


----------



## Jayne1

gacats said:


> I'm of two minds about this. Caitlyn lived for 65 years as a man, married 3(?) times, fathered a pile of children and is now transgender. I understand all the "I've always felt like I was a woman" but I can't help but worry. She's taken a huge and very public step, involving surgery. What if this turns out to be a mistake?
> This was such a gigantic life change. I hope & pray that this brings her tremendous happiness, because I cannot fathom how she would recover from this if it turns out to be the wrong thing.


I keep reading about those who changed back because they felt they made a mistake but as you said, Caitlyn in 65, she's had decades to consider this. I bet she will never be sorry.


----------



## SWlife

Jayne1 said:


> I keep reading about those who changed back because they felt they made a mistake but as you said, Caitlyn in 65, she's had decades to consider this. I bet she will never be sorry.




I so hope you're right. The best life is a contented life.


----------



## krissa

O/t: is anyone watching Becoming Us on abc family?


----------



## bag-mania

Odd comment about Rob at the end of the article. Why is he not ready to be seen publicly? His weight? Substance abuse?



> *Family Feud! Brody Jenner At War With Fame-Hungry Caitlyn  Why He May Boycott The ESPYs*
> 
> The Jenner kids stood by Caitlyn in the first weeks of her debut, but now, RadarOnline.com has learned, the family is fractured! Son Brody Jenner is feuding with his dad in the wake of the Vanity Fair interview, and he is even considering boycotting the ESPY awards, RadarOnline.com has learned.
> 
> Leading up to Caitlyns sex change operation, Brody had been extremely supportive of everything that she had been doing, an insider told Radar. Long before Kim publicly embraced it, he was there.
> 
> But then came Caitlyns plans for a docuseries, and Brody and his siblings decided to opt out. Caitlyn subsequently complained about their decision in her Vanity Fair interview, and the insider said, Brody is still very hurt about the comments.
> 
> Brody just doesnt want to be a part of the publicity circus, the source said. And that applies to the ESPY awards, where Caitlyn is scheduled to receive the Arthur Ashe Courage award on stage with her family. Said the source, If Brody and Caitlyn dont come to some common ground, he wont be going.
> 
> Its expected that a majority of Caitlyns ten biological and step-children will be attending the ESPYs, in which she will be receiving the Arthur Ashe Courage award.
> 
> Rob Kardashian isnt expected to attend because he just isnt in a place that he is ready to be seen in public. But he is very supportive of Cailtyn, the insider added.
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/brody-jenner-feuding-caitlyn-jenner-espys/


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Veronica Summer     &#8226;  3 hours ago         Bruce has abandoned his kids once again... this isn't about not  wanting to be in the public eye... Brody was well into the public eye  way before the Kardashians when he was a main star on Laguna Beach.   When Caitlyn didn't think he would get the support of the Kardashians he  reached out to his oldest kids who supported him and stood up for him.   When the Karsashians realized it was "cool" to support him and would  get them favor they all started publically supporting him.  As soon as  that happened, Caitlyn once again jumped ship and ran towards the  Kardashians.  Caitlyn can change her gender, but she can't change the  fact that she is selfish and a deadbeat dad.




http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/brody-jenner-feuding-caitlyn-jenner-espys/

Amen.

I think it's ridiculous that Jenner is being honored at the EPSY awards to start with.
Way to jump on the bandwagon ESPN.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Didn't she (Caitlyn) say that when her oldest children said that they wouldn't be on her show that she 'hurled profanities'? I'm assuming at them.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Yea, I read that on more than one occasion.

 &#8220;When she realised the decision was final, she became increasingly  frustrated and on one occasion hurled profanities. She told me she felt  &#8216;terribly disappointed and terribly hurt&#8217;.&#8221;

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...n/04/caitlyn-jenners-kids-vanity-fair-article


----------



## Wildflower22

Coach Lover Too said:


> Yea, I read that on more than one occasion.
> 
> When she realised the decision was final, she became increasingly  frustrated and on one occasion hurled profanities. She told me she felt  terribly disappointed and terribly hurt.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...n/04/caitlyn-jenners-kids-vanity-fair-article




Well. Way to make it about her instead of her kids. 

I support her and all, but I have no idea how I would react if my dad told me he was actually a girl inside. I love my dad more than anything, but it would be an extremely difficult and painful transition to see my dad go from man to woman. I would probably be very angry/hurt and then accepting. But hurt first. 

These kids are seeing their dad do this in the spotlight. I cannot imagine.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Wildflower22 said:


> Well. Way to make it about her instead of her kids.
> 
> I support her and all, but I have no idea how I would react if my dad told me he was actually a girl inside. I love my dad more than anything, but it would be an extremely difficult and painful transition to see my dad go from man to woman. I would probably be very angry/hurt and then accepting. But hurt first.
> 
> These kids are seeing their dad do this in the spotlight. I cannot imagine.



I completely agree.


----------



## DivineMissM

gacats said:


> I'm of two minds about this. Caitlyn lived for 65 years as a man, married 3(?) times, fathered a pile of children and is now transgender. I understand all the "I've always felt like I was a woman" but I can't help but worry. She's taken a huge and very public step, involving surgery. What if this turns out to be a mistake?
> This was such a gigantic life change. I hope & pray that this brings her tremendous happiness, because I cannot fathom how she would recover from this if it turns out to be the wrong thing.



I agree.  I can't help but feel like this is going to end very badly.



krissa said:


> O/t: is anyone watching Becoming Us on abc family?



Isn't that produced by Ryan Seacrest? 



Coach Lover Too said:


> Veronica Summer       3 hours ago         Bruce has abandoned his kids once again... this isn't about not  wanting to be in the public eye... Brody was well into the public eye  way before the Kardashians when he was a main star on Laguna Beach.   When Caitlyn didn't think he would get the support of the Kardashians he  reached out to his oldest kids who supported him and stood up for him.   When the Karsashians realized it was "cool" to support him and would  get them favor they all started publically supporting him.  As soon as  that happened, Caitlyn once again jumped ship and ran towards the  Kardashians.  Caitlyn can change her gender, but she can't change the  fact that she is selfish and a deadbeat dad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/brody-jenner-feuding-caitlyn-jenner-espys/
> 
> Amen.
> 
> I think it's ridiculous that Jenner is being honored at the EPSY awards to start with.
> Way to jump on the bandwagon ESPN.



Totally.  Bruce Jenner is a horrible person.  Surgery, hormones, and wigs won't change that.


----------



## kittenslingerie

DivineMissM said:


> I agree.  I can't help but feel like this is going to end very badly.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that produced by Ryan Seacrest?
> 
> 
> 
> Totally.  Bruce Jenner is a horrible person.  Surgery, hormones, and wigs won't change that.



Agree, I mean he just killed a woman texting or whatever he was doing to smash into her like that. Or maybe Caitlyn didn't do it, it was Bruce.


----------



## Lounorada

divinemissm said:


> totally.  Bruce jenner is a horrible person.  Surgery, hormones, and wigs won't change that.



This.


----------



## AEGIS

bag-mania said:


> Odd comment about Rob at the end of the article. Why is he not ready to be seen publicly? His weight? Substance abuse?



bc he's very very fat


----------



## ChanelMommy

AEGIS said:


> bc he's very very fat



He's obviously depressed got issues. I think anyone would being involved in that cray cray family. Feel bad for him.


----------



## Hobbsy

He/she celebrated Father's Day yesterday. Mother's Day too? So what's it gonna be boy?!


----------



## Sassys

A$$ usual dumb a$$ KIm is the only one wearing heels.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

That's the biggest I've ever seen Kayne smile. *who's got a secret??* lol
Apparently Caitlyn thought they were doing lunch instead of 4-wheelin'.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Poor little North looks as miserable as always.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's the biggest I've ever seen Kayne smile. *who's got a secret??* lol
> Apparently Caitlyn thought they were doing lunch instead of 4-wheelin'.



Haha! Yeah, probably best to leave the dress at home next time you're playing in the dirt!


----------



## skarsbabe

Hobbsy said:


> He/she celebrated Father's Day yesterday. Mother's Day too? So what's it gonna be boy?!



My thoughts exactly!!


----------



## Lounorada

Caitlyns face looks truly terrifying in that picture...


----------



## littlerock

Hobbsy said:


> He/she celebrated Father's Day yesterday. Mother's Day too? So what's it gonna be boy?!



She is a father, not a mother. Why would she celebrate mother's day?


----------



## Hobbsy

littlerock said:


> She is a father, not a mother. Why would she celebrate mother's day?



She is a father. Quite a strange sentence.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Looks like the same off road vehicle she was hauling during the accident.

Whoops, had to change pronouns.


----------



## Jayne1

I think she looks pretty and less and less like Bruce.  Is that jaw significantly narrowed?  It's a pointy V shape.

Brody was here in Toronto, yesterday, but what about Kylie?


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Kylie was with tyga for Father's Day


----------



## blackkitty4378

I thought Casey was Leah at first...


----------



## Bentley1

I see Leah is pregnant too. Poor thing having to share the timing of her first pregnancy Kim.


----------



## Bentley1

blackkitty4378 said:


> I thought Casey was Leah at first...




So did I. They look really similar. Both very pretty girls.


----------



## littlerock

blackkitty4378 said:


> I thought Casey was Leah at first...





Bentley1 said:


> So did I. They look really similar. Both very pretty girls.



Casey is not in that picture. That is Burt's girlfriend Valerie Pitalo.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I was going to make a comment about how she wasn't there because I thought it was Leah and then I figured it must be her because Leah was pregnant on the right with Brandon. Valerie is very pretty.


----------



## Bentley1

littlerock said:


> Casey is not in that picture. That is Burt's girlfriend Valerie Pitalo.




Very pretty girl.


----------



## littlerock

They look very similar from a distance. The outfit was the most telling, tbh. I just know Casey doesn't dress like that.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Caitlyn&#8217;s Heartbreak! Jenner &#8216;Devastated&#8217; Kylie, Kourtney Ditched Father&#8217;s Day Party*

*Caitlyn Jenner* is heartbroken after three of her children refused to spend Father&#8217;s Day with her, RadarOnline.com can exclusively report.
 A source close to the former _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_  patriarch exclusively tells Radar that Jenner is especially hurt since  &#8220;all were invited to spend the day with her, and it was their choice not  to go.&#8221;


 As Radar reported, Jenner&#8217;s troubled stepson Rob Kardashian, 28, only texted throughout the day, but didn&#8217;t join his siblings to celebrate the holiday.
 And though Jenner&#8217;s 17-year-old daughter *Kylie Jenner*  posted a heartfelt message to her father &#8212; her message to Jenner  included the line: &#8220;No matter what I&#8217;m always going to be your father.  That&#8217;s never going to change&#8221; &#8212; the source tells Radar that the young  reality star instead chose to spend the day with her 25-year-old  boyfriend *Tyga* and his son, *King* *Cairo*, 2.


&#8220;She understands why Kylie was not there,&#8221; says the source. &#8220;Caitlyn  does not like Tyga and does not approve of this relationship.&#8221;
 However, adds the source, &#8220;Caitlyn did appreciate Kylie&#8217;s sweet post and hopes that time will heal all wounds.&#8221;


 As Radar has previously reported, Caitlyn&#8217;s relationship with *Kourtney Kardashian* is also suffering because the 35-year-old and her baby daddy *Scott Disick*, 32, refuse to discuss Caitlyn&#8217;s transition to their children *Mason,* 5, *Penelope*, 2 and* Reign*, 6 months.
 &#8220;Kourtney and Scott would confuse Mason if they introduced their kids  to &#8216;Grandpop Bruce&#8217; on Father&#8217;s Day,&#8221; says a source close to the  couple. &#8220;They spent the day with their own family and will face this  issue when they are ready.&#8221;


Despite the diss, the 65-year-old former Olympian is keeping her chin up.
 &#8220;Caitlyn is devastated by them all not being there, but accepts their  reasoning, and they know that she will be there when they are ready to  accept the transition,&#8221; the Kardashian insider explains.


http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...tm_campaign=CaitlynHeartbrokenAboutFathersDay


----------



## Oryx816

If Caitlyn doesn't approve of Tyga why not call the police on his sorry a$$?


----------



## Encore Hermes

Sounds like made up drama 

Why would Caitlyn be devastated that the other Kardashians didn't show up? it isn't like she was their father figure. They weren't children when Robert sr died, Kourtney was in her 20s. 

Kourtney probably helped her children celebrate with Scott, their father.


----------



## ByeKitty

I agree it sounds like made-up gossip... I can imagine Kourtney not wanting to explain all of this to Mason yet though. Her kids are all quite young, Penelope and Reign will probably not remember 'Bruce' when they're older.


----------



## DivineMissM

Oryx816 said:


> If Caitlyn doesn't approve of Tyga why not call the police on his sorry a$$?



Exactly.  Or ground her a$$ and keep her away from him.  But then she (Caitlyn) would actually have to be home and wouldn't be able to do her publicity rounds.



ByeKitty said:


> I agree it sounds like made-up gossip... I can imagine Kourtney not wanting to explain all of this to Mason yet though. Her kids are all quite young, Penelope and Reign will probably not remember 'Bruce' when they're older.



Yeah, that would be confusing as heck.  I can't even imagine how I'd explain that to a young child.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oryx816 said:


> If Caitlyn doesn't approve of Tyga why not call the police on his sorry a$$?



That's my sentiment exactly.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Lol how do you ground a 17 year old that has her own place? They gave Kylie too much freedom a long time ago. Reeling her in now would definitely be an uphill battle.


However, I do agree - If you don't like him call the cops and get rid of him. I'd imagine they are not calling on him because of her but that really defeats the purpose. Or they don't want to call because he has a child. Who knows with these people. Nothing else those people say is true so why should Caitlyn saying she don't like Tyga be the truth especially since there's no action behind it. This is just the type of attention that Kylie needs to stay in the media.


----------



## DivineMissM

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Lol how do you ground a 17 year old that has her own place? They gave Kylie too much freedom a long time ago. Reeling her in now would definitely be an uphill battle.
> 
> 
> However, I do agree - If you don't like him call the cops and get rid of him. I'd imagine they are not calling on him because of her but that really defeats the purpose. Or they don't want to call because he has a child. Who knows with these people. Nothing else those people say is true so why should Caitlyn saying she don't like Tyga be the truth especially since there's no action behind it. This is just the type of attention that Kylie needs to stay in the media.



haha, true.  I forgot she had her own place.  But still...be involved with your kids.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Is she allowed ( as a minor) to buy real estate or was parental consent necessary


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I'm not sure about in CA but in some states you can purchase a home if you have been emancipated or with your parents as co signers. Legally a 17 year old can't be held liable. They let her do everything else I can't see them saying no to cosigning on her home.

But I'm pretty sure with all of the young actors/celebs CA has had this question asked before.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

DivineMissM said:


> haha, true.  I forgot she had her own place.  But still...be involved with your kids.




True but we do have proof that Bruce's thing wasn't to be involved with his kids. I can't see Caitlyn being any different.


----------



## skarsbabe

I can't imagine being on my own at 17 (meaning, having my parents LET me be on my own at that age) AND dating a guy who is 8 years older, with a 2 year old child. Isn't that illegal as well?


----------



## VickyB

Lounorada said:


> Caitlyns face looks truly terrifying in that picture...



ITA. Cait looks like she had rough night.


----------



## DC-Cutie

skarsbabe said:


> I can't imagine being on my own at 17 (meaning, having my parents LET me be on my own at that age) AND dating a guy who is 8 years older, with a 2 year old child. Isn't that illegal as well?


 well now...  she can date him, perfectly legal.  But it becomes illegal when sex is involved...  I'm inclined to believe they are already having sex, just waiting until her 18th birthday to go public - ie raunchy subliminal IG pics of them in bed


You have to remember her mother is Kris Jenner - she sells sex for a living.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Encore Hermes said:


> Is she allowed ( as a minor) to buy real estate or was parental consent necessary


 
or she has been emancipated


----------



## Eva1991

Encore Hermes said:


> Sounds like made up drama
> 
> Why would Caitlyn be devastated that the other Kardashians didn't show up? it isn't like she was their father figure. They weren't children when Robert sr died, Kourtney was in her 20s.
> 
> Kourtney probably helped her children celebrate with Scott, their father.



They did grow up with Caitlyn though. Kris and Caitlyn married in 1991 if I remember correctly; the kids were young at the time.


----------



## Eva1991

DC-Cutie said:


> or she has been emancipated



How does this work exactly? I'm not familiar with this process since we don't have it here.

If she has emancipated, does this mean she's no longer considered a minor and has the same rights / obligations an adult does?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

These are interesting articles.
*First Transgender Playboy Model Warns Caitlyn Jenner About Surgery*


Caroline "Tula" Cossey -- a Bond girl in the 1981 film _For Your Eyes Only_  -- made headlines in the early 1980s when it was revealed by a British  tabloid that she was a transgender woman. Giving her first interview in  20 years to _Playboy _magazine, she has some advice for another public figure on a similar journey, former Olympian Caitlyn Jenner.  
The publication spoke with Cossey about Jenner prior to her big reveal in _Vanity Fair, _and therefore, she refers to Caitlyn as Bruce, using the pronoun "he."


"It was a bit of a shock, to say the least," she said of Jenner's  transition. "He's been such an incredible athlete and hero, with all  those raging male hormones running through his body."
The model --  who was the first transgender woman to pose for the magazine in 1981  -- admitted that she didn't watch Diane Sawyer's interview with the _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_ star when it aired live this past April, but she did view a few clips from the _20/20 _special.
"The  guy is obviously going through a lot of pain and suffering," she said.  "I hope he finds his happiness, but it's going to be tough."


"Sawyer never asked him, 'Does wearing women's clothes turn you on  sexually?' That's what somebody needs to establish," she said. "It's  actually the first thing a psychiatrist asked me in counseling. That  would be a fetish, and there's nothing wrong with having a fetish.  Life's too short; enjoy it, whatever."
Cossey says she's heard "horror stories" of people going through surgery and "becoming miserable" afterwards.


"It's a very painful surgery. I would hate for him to lose that part  of his body and go through transition, especially at this stage in his  life, because he's no spring chicken," she said of the 65-year-old reality star. "He's in a public situation going through something so sensitive. I pray he gets the right counseling."
Cossey added, "It's not what's between your legs at the end of the day."


_ Vanity Fair_ contributing editor Buzz Bissinger sat down with ET  to talk about his profile on Jenner, and recalled how her  transformation into a woman was startlingly immediate after undergoing  10 hours of plastic surgery.
"I saw Bruce for about two, two and a  half months. Bruce is over here, and then bing -- literally, overnight  on March 15th -- he goes in for 10 hours of plastic surgery, and Bruce  is gone," Bissinger explained. "Now, Bruce will be in him somewhere, but  now it's Caitlyn Jenner, and it was spooky."
Jenner admitted to Bissinger that after her facial feminization surgery, she had a panic attack. "What did I just do? What did I just do to myself?" Jenner recalled her first thoughts after surgery.
After  meeting with a counselor from the Los Angeles Gender Center, she was  assured that this reaction is common after such a procedure.  "If I was  lying on my deathbed and I had kept this secret and never ever did  anything about it, I would be lying there saying, 'You just blew your  entire life,'" Jenner told _VF_. "You never dealt with yourself, and I don't want that to happen."







According to Johns Hopkins Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry Dr. Paul R. McHugh,* &#8220;Hopkins stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery*, producing a &#8216;satisfied&#8217; but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for amputating normal organs.&#8221;

*According to McHugh*




Transgenderism is a mental disorder
Sex change is biologically impossible
People who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder
The suicide rate among transgendered people who had the surgery is 20 times higher
70%-80% of children who expressed transgender feelings, overtime, lost those feelings


http://www.newyorkapologetics.com/johns-hopkins-stopped-doing-sex-reassignment-surgery/


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> These are interesting articles.
> *First Transgender Playboy Model Warns Caitlyn Jenner About Surgery*
> 
> Cossey says she's heard "horror stories" of people going through surgery and "becoming miserable" afterwards.
> 
> "It's a very painful surgery. I would hate for him to lose that part  of his body and go through transition, especially at this stage in his  life, because he's no spring chicken," she said...



That's what I've been reading&#8230; and I mentioned it before. It may be a bad idea to go all the way.


----------



## lanasyogamama

If that stat about 70-80% of kids losing the feeling over time is true,  it's very scary.


----------



## Tivo

I just cannot with all the confusion up in here. Wow.


----------



## ByeKitty

I agree I'm not sure if I'd go there all the way, especially at Caitlyn's age. It all depends on her feelings obviously but sometimes feelings go back and forth. As long as she doesn't feel limited or disgusted by her privates, I don't think she should do it.


----------



## pixiejenna

For a normal person I'd agree with it's probably not worth the trouble the recovery is going to be hard especially at that age. But for her it's the norm between all the PS she's had over the years and the recent boob job, it's like she's been training for this moment her whole life.


----------



## zippie

Did anyone see the new promo video on E?  I'm sorry but he/she is disturbing on so many levels.  Didn't care enough about the kids he produced with sperm!  Has a 17 year old hoe boinking a 25 year old child molester and doesn't care.


----------



## VickyB

zippie said:


> Did anyone see the new promo video on E?  I'm sorry but he/she is disturbing on so many levels.  Didn't care enough about the kids he produced with sperm!  Has a 17 year old hoe boinking a 25 year old child molester and doesn't care.




I saw the promo and the pics on the Daily Fail today. Cait looks awful and in a couple pics really creepy. There is one profile pic where the plastic surgery/make up combo  looks particularly hideous.


----------



## redney

Right after the VF article came out, I thought Caitlyn would be a positive catalyst in transgender discussions and acceptance. 

But unfortunately it looks like she's turned out to be just another fame ho, just like her most recent ex-wife and her kids.


----------



## redney

Eeks, so I *had* to go and look at the Dailyfail article VickyB referenced above. 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...lyn-Jenner-65-happy-closet-new-clip-Cait.html

WARNING to Kendall! Stop with the PS while you're ahead!


----------



## VickyB

redney said:


> Eeks, so I *had* to go and look at the Dailyfail article VickyB referenced above.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...lyn-Jenner-65-happy-closet-new-clip-Cait.html
> 
> WARNING to Kendall! Stop with the PS while you're ahead!



Thanks for posting the link!!! And this is the only somewhat flattering pic. All the rest are scary


----------



## redney

VickyB said:


> Thanks for posting the link!!! And this is the only somewhat flattering pic. All the rest are scary



I agree. Thought Kendall strongly resembles her in the pic I posted. Be careful with PS Kendall!


----------



## Jayne1

In some light and with some angles, she's very pretty and feminine and then other angles and more harsh lighting, we can see reality but in general, her transformation, with the turned up nose and slim jaw, her height and slimness it's quite good.


----------



## GaitreeS

I.just.can't


----------



## Eva1991

Jayne1 said:


> In some light and with some angles, she's very pretty and feminine and then other angles and more harsh lighting, we can see reality but in general, her transformation, with the turned up nose and slim jaw, her height and slimness it's quite good.



I agree but let's not forget she's 65.


----------



## Jayne1

Eva1991 said:


> I agree but let's not forget she's 65.



Meaning what?  I think she looks pretty for 65 and much younger than her age.

However, did anyone watch the promo?  "We're going to do some good!" she said,

What does that mean?  Do some good for her need for attention?  Do some good for her bank account? Let the world know just how much surgery is involved and money needed to transform into a woman?  There she is, gazing out at the ocean from her Malibu home. How can this help everyday people without her bank account?


----------



## bag-mania

Eva1991 said:


> I agree but let's not forget she's 65.



I think most would agree that for 65 she looks darn good. It's the plastic surgery that makes her look like an odd mannequin in some photos. It hasn't gone as far as a Michael Jackson-like distortion of features, but there is still a kind of weirdness to it.


----------



## Jayne1

bag-mania said:


> I think most would agree that for 65 she looks darn good. It's the plastic surgery that makes her look like an odd mannequin in some photos. It hasn't gone as far as a Michael Jackson-like distortion of features, but there is still a kind of weirdness to it.


There is.  I don't know if it's because we're so familiar with Bruce's face, but there is definitely a weirdness to Caitlyn's face.  Kinda man-made/manufactured, which it is.

Has anyone seen the transgender woman on Big Brother?  So pretty and feminine and natural  looking and she said she just transitioned a few years ago. There is nothing masculine or weird about her.


----------



## Encore Hermes

I have no words





Daily mail


----------



## Eva1991

Jayne1 said:


> *Meaning what? * I think she looks pretty for 65 and much younger than her age.
> 
> However, did anyone watch the promo?  "We're going to do some good!" she said,
> 
> What does that mean?  Do some good for her need for attention?  Do some good for her bank account? Let the world know just how much surgery is involved and money needed to transform into a woman?  There she is, gazing out at the ocean from her Malibu home. How can this help everyday people without her bank account?



At her age most people would look bad under harsh lighting.


----------



## Eva1991

Encore Hermes said:


> I have no words
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily mail



Kylie looks very uncomfortable but it's a hard adjustment she has to go through.


----------



## Ms.parker123

If I was 17 I would most likely have a very hard time accepting my father transitioning to a women.


----------



## Encore Hermes

she is probably having a hard time accepting it, so why are they filming it? Imo that places the importance on the show vs the child. 
She is in Europe, was part of a fight where a gun was drawn and where are either of her  parents. Filming.


----------



## Jayne1

Eva1991 said:


> At her age most people would look bad under harsh lighting.



Yes, I agree.


----------



## VickyB

Encore Hermes said:


> I have no words
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily mail




Thanks for posting this! It is the profile pic I mentioned. Nothing good going on here at all!!! Creepy plastic! What's up with the eye brows, the nose...well, ok just about everything here is very off. And that forehead????????????


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Considering that her face was already messed up before she transitioned I think she looks better now.


----------



## AEGIS

Ms.parker123 said:


> If I was 17 I would most likely have a very hard time accepting my father transitioning to a women.



honey im almost twice that age and it would be very hard for me


----------



## skarsbabe

I can't stop laughing. He looks like these guys with all that awful PS! http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly7ubf04kW1r7etjvo1_500.gif


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Celebrating at NYC PRIDE


----------



## bisousx

Awwww she looks so happy.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

This past month I've seen her smile more then all the years on KUWK


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner has been filming her new E! special I Am Cait for the past several months in Los Angeles.

Now the 65-year-old star has flown to New York City to tape a segment.

On Sunday the former partner of Kris Jenner, 59, was seen in a white top and skirt - an outfit stepdaughter Kim Kardashian might have worn - as she arrived at the PH-D Rooftop Lounge in the Dream Downtown Hotel during the 2015 Gay Pride Parade.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...arade-E-cameras-follow-her.html#ixzz3eOxdLUIz


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I like these photos of her, after it set in this a person over the age of 60 I realize she does look good in real life.


----------



## Jayne1

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> This past month I've seen her smile more then all the years on KUWK


Very true -- she does look so happy. But I can't help thinking she has all the attention, something she didn't have before and she loves it.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> Very true -- she does look so happy. But I can't help thinking she has all the attention, something she didn't have before and she loves it.




Yep, just going to post this.

Looks to me like she's high on all the attention and validation she's getting more than anything.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> Yep, just going to post this.
> 
> Looks to me like she's high on all the attention and validation she's getting more than anything.



I saw a guy on CNN he was being interviewed because he transitioned to a woman and then back to a guy.

Anyway, he said that after he transitioned to a woman, part of what made him think he did the right thing was the tremendous amount of attention, support and happiness for him.

After a few years and with people drifting away to other issues int their lives, he realized he made a mistake and went back to male. He was leery of Caitlyn's lasting happiness so we'll see, I guess.


----------



## whimsic

She looks good. I see a lot of Kendall in her.


----------



## Coach Lover Too




----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oh jeezus, I didn't know it was gonna be that big! 

(.....that's what she said...) lol


----------



## horse17

she resembles cindy crawford


----------



## labelwhore04

Considering shes 65 and just recently started her transition, she looks pretty damn good. Way more feminine than i ever would have imagined.


----------



## Jikena

labelwhore04 said:


> Considering shes 65 and just recently started her transition, she looks pretty damn good. Way more feminine than i ever would have imagined.



I agree. And people saying she looks really bad, but remember how Bruce looked. He looked bad because of his age and because of all the surgery he had. So, Caitlyn doesn't look bad to me. Yes, she might not be "perfect", but she's 65 and had a lot of procedures done. She looks very feminine though.


----------



## tennisplyr91

skarsbabe said:


> I can't stop laughing. He looks like these guys with all that awful PS! http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly7ubf04kW1r7etjvo1_500.gif




This transphobic, homophobic and beyond rude.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

horse17 said:


> she resembles cindy crawford




Agreed


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'll give her credit for looking a lot better than Kris at this point.
Someone needs to tell Kris to stop wearing her hair slicked back off her face. Looks horrible like that.


----------



## GoGlam

I've just now realized that she was probably (at least internally) critiquing Kris for her outfits and looks all along.  Probably competing in her own mind.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner is fully embracing life as a transgender woman as, in turn, high-profile transgender women are embracing her.

The reality star wore a long-sleeved above-the-knee black dress for a night out following New York City's Gay Pride Parade on Sunday and shared photos of herself with trans model Geena Rocero and trans actress Candis Cayne.

'Such a fun dinner in NYC w/ this powerful group of trans women. They are all so beautiful,' Caitlyn wrote on social media.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ing-NYC-s-Gay-Pride-Parade.html#ixzz3eUbu33wX


----------



## FreeSpirit71

That black dress is actually really nice.


----------



## littlerock

FreeSpirit71 said:


> That black dress is actually really nice.



This! She has more taste than all of the K clan, combined! Although, that'snot saying much.


----------



## Eva1991

She looks great in the black dress.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

They look really good


----------



## Coach Lover Too

GoGlam said:


> I've just now realized that she was probably (at least internally) critiquing Kris for her outfits and looks all along.  Probably competing in her own mind.


I bet you're right! I wonder if she wasn't jealous of Kris and the older girls because she sure seems to be eating up all the attention. Her face and hair look great but the hands, arms and legs still leave a lot to be desired.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

She has the knees of a 60+ professional athlete. Can't blame her for that.


----------



## Freckles1

I hope she's happy. At 65, I believe she's thought about/wanted this a very, very long time


----------



## MarneeB

skarsbabe said:


> I can't stop laughing. He looks like these guys with all that awful PS! http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly7ubf04kW1r7etjvo1_500.gif


 


Sorry but this is rude and uncalled for. And Caitlyn is a 'she'. At 65 years old, I think she looks pretty good. Transgender people need a lot of plastic surgery, and IMO Caitlyn's has been done well.


----------



## uhpharm01

littlerock said:


> This! She has more taste than all of the K clan, combined! Although, that'snot saying much.



Yup


----------



## Yoshi1296

Wow she is totally killing it!! She looks super stunning and looks great for her age!! Definitely shutting down all the haters that are criticizing her as they age in dog years lmaoo


----------



## daffyduck

She looks good and very happy. She's finally living the life she always wanted, so let her have all the attention. At 65-years old, she deserves it!


----------



## pixiejenna

I wonder where she is renting her friends from? She always seems to have a new batch of girlfriends to be photographed with. It makes me feel  bad for her like she has no one left. I think we've only seen her photographed a few times with her family after she came out.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

There are new pictures on Dailymail (I'm sure someone will post). I really can't believe how good she looks. Looks way better than Bruce in his last 10 years! And her style seems more effortless and chic than any of the Kardashians!


----------



## Sasha2012

She's only been seen attending various speaking engagements at LGBT centers since her Vanity Fair cover.

But on Monday night Caitlyn Jenner made her debut on the New York City night scene in a skintight bandage dress as she stepped out for dinner at Tutto Il Giorno.

The 65-year-old reality star made a glamorous exit from the Tribeca Italian restaurant, making sure all eyes were on her while balancing in a pair of stilettos.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...sade-visit-LGBT-center-NYC.html#ixzz3eWnXXhpJ


----------



## bisousx

Dang. She looks good. Her style is so elegant compared to the Ks.


----------



## NY_Mami

I didn't think Caitlyn would be_ "on"_ but Caitlyn is_ "on"_, and by "on" I mean Glammed 24/7... I wonder if she is gonna wear that dress she stole from Kim...


----------



## NY_Mami

Encore Hermes said:


> Is she allowed ( as a minor) to buy real estate or was parental consent necessary


 
No, minors can't enter contracts nor would they qualify for loans... I doubt she is emancipated because she is still at home with her mom, and the emancipation process is tedious. She most likely had her mom co-sign on the house for her... there were a couple of articles from realtors being asked the same question about minors buying houses in the USA and most of them said there is no way in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks that she was able to buy that home without help from one of her parents, and that the title isn't even in her name...


----------



## SouthTampa

Sasha2012 said:


> She's only been seen attending various speaking engagements at LGBT centers since her Vanity Fair cover.
> 
> But on Monday night Caitlyn Jenner made her debut on the New York City night scene in a skintight bandage dress as she stepped out for dinner at Tutto Il Giorno.
> 
> The 65-year-old reality star made a glamorous exit from the Tribeca Italian restaurant, making sure all eyes were on her while balancing in a pair of stilettos.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...sade-visit-LGBT-center-NYC.html#ixzz3eWnXXhpJ


Do you think this handsome man in the photo's is her bodyguard?


----------



## blackkitty4378

She looks so comfortable with herself. I'm happy for her.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> She has the knees of a 60+ professional athlete. Can't blame her for that.



Yea, unlike the rest of that family whose excuse is being on their knees too much.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Caitlyn is slaying, look what having some coins will do to keep you looking like that everything you step on the scene, love it!


----------



## Jujuma

The only thing that bothers me a little bit. And I'm speaking just in terms of the Jenner kids. Is that it seems like there is nothing left of Bruce's personality. I think this is going to be very hard on the kids. I can understand Cait being happy but isn't there a little Bruce, personality wise, left somewhere? It's like he disappeared totally and that has to be hard on family members, especially the Jenner kids who Bruce always seemed to have a good relationship with.


----------



## beekmanhill

Jujuma said:


> The only thing that bothers me a little bit. And I'm speaking just in terms of the Jenner kids. Is that it seems like there is nothing left of Bruce's personality. I think this is going to be very hard on the kids. I can understand Cait being happy but isn't there a little Bruce, personality wise, left somewhere? It's like he disappeared totally and that has to be hard on family members, especially the Jenner kids who Bruce always seemed to have a good relationship with.



I agree.  She seems completely different.  Bruce was admittedly a loner, didn't really like these public events and a lot of socializing.  Caitlyn is going all out to go to glam events.  I think she might have a big letdown when the whirlwind stops.

As for her look, her taste in clothes is excellent.  I personally don't like a plastic surgeried look on the face, but that is all she sees in LA, so based on those standards, she looks very good.


----------



## Jayne1

pixiejenna said:


> I wonder where she is renting her friends from? She always seems to have a new batch of girlfriends to be photographed with. It makes me feel  bad for her like she has no one left. I think we've only seen her photographed a few times with her family after she came out.



She's still filming and I think there are lots of Hollywood females who want to be part of a TV show, even if way in the background.


----------



## Jayne1

beekmanhill said:


> I agree.  She seems completely different.  Bruce was admittedly a loner, didn't really like these public events and a lot of socializing.  Caitlyn is going all out to go to glam events.  I think she might have a big letdown when the whirlwind stops.
> 
> As for her look, her taste in clothes is excellent.  I personally don't like a plastic surgeried look on the face, but that is all she sees in LA, so based on those standards, she looks very good.


She's filming and I guess she wanted to be the star of the show, all along.

In certain light we can see every single procedure done to her face.  It's almost like a mask. I can't get over how they feminized her face with cheekbones, turned up nose and slimmer chin and very tight jaw. These doctors are brilliant.


----------



## lizmil

How could Caitlyn borrow clothes from Kim? she's a foot taller and slender.


----------



## NicolesCloset

She loves the limelight! She has style


----------



## MrsTeacherMrCop

SouthTampa said:


> Do you think this handsome man in the photo's is her bodyguard?




I was wondering the same thing....he is a cutie pie


----------



## beastofthefields

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh jeezus, I didn't know it was gonna be that big!
> 
> (.....that's what she said...) lol



lol lol lol lol lol xxxxxxxxx


----------



## beastofthefields

what about her voice though? isn't it still Bruce's?  Will she / is she able to feminise it?

Will she get rid of her p**i*?  I know it's a touchy subject, but I'm just so curious. And is that even possible?


----------



## ophousewife

Caitlyn looks really good.  I wish she'd give her step daughters some pointers.


----------



## DC-Cutie

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> Caitlyn is slaying, look what having some coins will do to keep you looking like that everything you step on the scene, love it!


 
Caitlyn come thru and slay bish!!!!!  All she needs now is a little waist trainer and small booty pad - won't be able to hell her ish!


----------



## DC-Cutie

beastofthefields said:


> what about her voice though? isn't it still Bruce's?  Will she / is she able to feminise it?
> 
> Will she get rid of her p**i*?  I know it's a touchy subject, but I'm just so curious. And is that even possible?


 
of course it's possible - it's called reassignment surgery.  A good friend of mine went through the process - she looks like a million bucks!  She had very soft features as a boy, so didn't need any facial work just boobs and a new vag


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

DC-Cutie said:


> Caitlyn come thru and slay bish!!!!!  All she needs now is a little waist trainer and small booty pad - won't be able to hell her ish!




Sure won't!!!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Kris must be in a corner sipping on Drano trying to figure out how Caitlyn is winning in the fashion department!!!


----------



## AshTx.1

This transformation STILL shocks me.


----------



## pittcat

Jayne1 said:


> She's filming and I guess she wanted to be the star of the show, all along.
> 
> 
> 
> In certain light we can see every single procedure done to her face.  It's almost like a mask. I can't get over how they feminized her face with cheekbones, turned up nose and slimmer chin and very tight jaw. These doctors are brilliant.




I agree about the mask comment. I may get slammed for this but it does remind me of the Mask movie with Cher.... Only at certain angles (from the side) and in natural light, but seeing everything protruding like that is pretty jarring.  Maybe after more time it won't be noticeable.

Overall though in those other pictures from the front I am very impressed and she looks good, definitely better than I pictured! And of course she dresses better than the k's... Is it really that hard?!


----------



## NYC Chicky

She looks great


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Shopping downtown NYC today http://m.usmagazine.com/celebrity-s...-dress-like-kim-kardashian-nyc-photos-2015306

Who wore it better? Caitlyn or Kim? I'm going with Caitlyn


----------



## Jayne1

Harsh lighting for a short skirt.


----------



## zippie

It makes me sick that people are saying he is a hero!  For what?  He has an underage daughter in a relationship with a child molester!  What have these two scum bag parents done to protect their daughter?  Kylie has no education and Bruce and Skank mom are too busy being into themselves to even care.  Yeah brucie, wear your dresses and makeup and forget about being a father!  This family is disgusting and I blame it all on the parents, including the father that hid evidence and defended a murderer.  What a legacy he left for his kids.


----------



## shiny_things

She's looking fantastic, happy and at ease with herself. Plus she dresses better than the K's. I'm very happy for her.

Will be interesting to see her casual style.


----------



## chowlover2

DC-Cutie said:


> Kris must be in a corner sipping on Drano trying to figure out how Caitlyn is winning in the fashion department!!!




I was thinking the same thing. And the topper is, Kris is looking more like a man!


----------



## BagOuttaHell

zippie said:


> It makes me sick that people are saying he is a hero!  For what?  He has an underage daughter in a relationship with a child molester!  What have these two scum bag parents done to protect their daughter?  Kylie has no education and Bruce and Skank mom are too busy being into themselves to even care.  Yeah brucie, wear your dresses and makeup and forget about being a father!  This family is disgusting and I blame it all on the parents, including the father that hid evidence and defended a murderer.  What a legacy he left for his kids.



I agree with some of this.


And she needs to ease up on those minis. Not cute.


----------



## lanasyogamama

I'm surprised she is choosing looks that Kim was so well known for, esp the bandage dress.  She has to know there will be comparisons.  But it makes me wonder if all those years that they were all waring those bandage dresses, if she was pining to wear one herself.


----------



## pursegrl12

GaitreeS said:


> I.just.can't




i know. all I see is him. bruce.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> Harsh lighting for a short skirt.



Went _where_ wearing this?


----------



## sdkitty

I'm sorry but I think she looks like a drag queen.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Went _where_ wearing this?



Just filming. It's not reality.  I bet the show is as scripted as the K show.


----------



## tennisplyr91

So many rude people making homophobic comments "still looks like a man" "looks like a drag queen" "it will always be bruce"... Geez people


----------



## shiny_things

tennisplyr91 said:


> So many rude people making homophobic comments "still looks like a man" "looks like a drag queen" "it will always be bruce"... Geez people



Right? Honestly the amount of people making massively offensive comments about being transgender is staggering. Most don't even seem to know they're doing it.


----------



## AEGIS

she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.

i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.


----------



## AshTx.1

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.



Ita.


----------



## tennisplyr91

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.




Please find 1 post where I've called any female a male before you call me a hypocrite and inconsistent.


----------



## AEGIS

tennisplyr91 said:


> Please find 1 post where I've called any female a male before you call me a hypocrite and inconsistent. You are a really rude and angry person.



I didn't quote you. But like they say, a hit dog will hollar.


----------



## Encore Hermes

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.



Exactly, well put.


----------



## tennisplyr91

AEGIS said:


> I didn't quote you. But like they say, a hit dog will hollar.




You didn't need to quote me to directly address me. I brought up how people we making rude comments and you directly disagreed right after alluding to what I said.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Maybe Bruce didn't like the spotlight because he was uncomfortable in his skin? Now that he is no longer she feels free and at ease which is why she's in front of the camera more. 

That's like some people that don't like taking pics or looking in mirrors because they are unhappy with themselves.


----------



## Lounorada

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.



Agree with all of this.


----------



## krissa

tennisplyr91 said:


> So many rude people making homophobic comments "still looks like a man" "looks like a drag queen" "it will always be bruce"... Geez people



Not defending the comments, but ppl say Khloe looks like a man all the time. People online can be jerks.


----------



## tennisplyr91

krissa said:


> Not defending the comments, but ppl say Khloe looks like a man all the time. People online can be jerks.




Yeah, but does that make it okay to call Bruce that?

I am being a called a hypocrite for that despite never havent even read Khloes thread. I am responsible for my own Actions and try to encourage ppl to do so too


----------



## krissa

Caitlyn is def not getting skewered like the female born Kardashians.


----------



## krissa

tennisplyr91 said:


> Yeah, but does that make it okay to call Bruce that?
> 
> I am being a called a hypocrite for that despite never havent even read Khloes thread. I am responsible for my own Actions and try to encourage ppl to do so too



Not at all that's why I said I'm not agreeing. I def didn't call you a hypocrite. There is a dbl standard, but it's more noticeable if you look at all the threads.


----------



## tennisplyr91

krissa said:


> Not at all that's why I said I'm not agreeing. I def didn't call you a hypocrite. There is a dbl standard, but it's more noticeable if you look at all the threads.



No, I know you werent, I am referring to the poster above who said that I was being a hypocrite because ppl call Khloe a man all the time.

I get commenting on outfits etc but ppl here are too brutal with their comments and more often than not cross the line and become rude and insensitive.


----------



## Sarni

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.




Ita!!


----------



## Sarni

krissa said:


> Not at all that's why I said I'm not agreeing. I def didn't call you a hypocrite. There is a dbl standard, but it's more noticeable if you look at all the threads.




I don't believe people are brutal with their comments about Caitlyn. The opposite in fact! Everyone is tip toeing around the truth actually!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

zippie said:


> It makes me sick that people are saying he is a hero!  For what?  He has an underage daughter in a relationship with a child molester!  What have these two scum bag parents done to protect their daughter?  Kylie has no education and Bruce and Skank mom are too busy being into themselves to even care.  Yeah brucie, wear your dresses and makeup and forget about being a father!  This family is disgusting and I blame it all on the parents, including the father that hid evidence and defended a murderer.  What a legacy he left for his kids.



Thank you. I agree 100000%.

....if that skirt gets any shorter, something may fall out...just sayin'..


----------



## Coach Lover Too

AshTx.1 said:


> Ita.



So do I.  I can't believe how sensitive some people are. People are allowed to have their opinions on what they think about him, or her.

It's ok to ridicule every single person in that family except Bruce/Caitlyn.
After all is said and done, and the money's been raked in and she decides it's not for her and goes back to living as a he, I'm going to be one of the first ones to say I told you so.


----------



## mama13drama99

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.




I love this!!!

Everyone should be able to pin their opinion!!!  I come here, just from time to time and only when I'm sitting somewhere waiting for something or someone. I read what I can then close.  It's just not worth the hassle and ridicule for simply being honest!   Such as earlier when I read the press' cover of her in NYC last night.  Stilettos???  What picture did I miss, cause this sling back pumps look like an inch or two above a kitten heel to me!!!  And although the bandage dress in and of itself was cute, from several
angles it was not flattering for at all for Caitlyn (just as it's would not be for me either)! There are MANY women that I don't believe are "pretty" (or talented for that matter), so why would I give Caitlyn a pass if I don't think she is either.  The transformation is quite something to behold and I applaud her (and her team's efforts), she is feminine no doubt, but I still see traces of Bruce Jenner (especially depending on the angle or lighting), and yes, that makes her come off as looking like a drag queen (many of whom look and have feminine mannerism) to me. Yet, I have said the same thing about Khloe!  And other women too! And there are openly gay men who don't seem to be interested in transferring their gender but look an ultra feminine look, and I don't see that for some of them either! As in, nope, not a good look!  It has nothing to do with being homophobic.  None of the categories of people I've mention are freaks so there is much, if anything, that I feel the need to fear with/from them (i.e. phobic).  Also, in some of Caitlyn's photos, her eyes have her looking like a deer in headlights (and that's me being nice).  Some times her facial expression cause me to see what I've seen of a person who has paralysis from a stroke.  I AIN'T being mean (not that I care about coming across that way because Caitlyn and no one here is doing a darn thing to benefit me), but I say that to stress that all opinions that don't read as applause do not come from a mean, hateful or phobic place!  All that being said, Bruce made HIS OWN decision that was best for the remainder of (now) her life, and now lives as Caitlyn.  She is not my hero, but neither is Kate Middleton or Michelle ***** (love them...use them to illustrate my point: while I admire various things about them, they are not my hero).  Caitlyn's happiness is not in my hands, but I am hopeful that she truly is and will continue to be.  Nevertheless, I won't cosign all the "gushing" over Caitlyn's look/appearance just to keep the PF pearl clutchers (on this issue in particular) from chastising me for my honest opinion.  

PS: I haven't liked the fit of some of the clothes, but Caitlyn's sense of style (her or those of hired help) runs circles around all the K's (which for me includes the two J's!).  And one last thing...it's okay for Caitlyn to wear pants and I'd like to see her wear more pants and some causal looks too!  Accentuate the positive!  Some nice tailored pants for her height have to be nice! 

And that's my .04 cents!


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Coach Lover Too said:


> So do I.
> 
> It's ok to ridicule every single person in that family except Bruce/Caitlyn.
> After all is said and done, and the money's been raked in and she decides it's not for her and goes back to living as a he, I'm going to be one of the first ones to say I told you so.




Why do you think she will do that? I mean I understand it has been done before but what signs has she given? 

Serious question, not trying to start anything. I'm neutral on the subject and think everyone is entitled to feel how they feel.


----------



## prettyprincess

sdkitty said:


> I'm sorry but I think she looks like a drag queen.



Well that's what he is.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Why do you think she will do that? I mean I understand it has been done before but what signs has she given?
> 
> Serious question, not trying to start anything. I'm neutral on the subject and think everyone is entitled to feel how they feel.



Because of the way everything's been handled thus far. At first *I just want to live my life quietly and go about my business* and so far, it's been anything but. Once all the money's been made that there is to make, and the excitement wears off and the camera's leave I can't help but think Bruce will be back. The Kardashians have made me super cynical and that includes Bruce and or Caitlyn.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

prettyprincess said:


> Well that's what he is.



Exactly, but how dare you say it. Especially say it here.

Now granted I have seen hundreds of derogatory comments on news sites/etc that cause me hesitation too, but as far as comments posted here go, I haven't seen anything of the sort. People seem to forget that Bruce/Caitlyn is a separate identity from other transgenders. They're not attached at the hip. Just because someone insults Bruce/Caitlyn, doesn't mean they're insulting the whole community.
Some people need to learn to separate the two.


----------



## ByeKitty

tennisplyr91 said:


> So many rude people making homophobic comments "still looks like a man" "looks like a drag queen" "it will always be bruce"... Geez people





AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.



I agree with both of this... People tend to mix up honesty and rudeness. Yes, there's nothing wrong with being honest about this (insincere praise isn't helping anyone either), but that doesn't mean it's not a discussion to choose your words carefully in.


----------



## arnott

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> Shopping downtown NYC today http://m.usmagazine.com/celebrity-s...-dress-like-kim-kardashian-nyc-photos-2015306
> 
> Who wore it better? Caitlyn or Kim? I'm going with Caitlyn
> 
> View attachment 3049803
> View attachment 3049810
> View attachment 3049811
> View attachment 3049813



How old is that picture of Kim?


----------



## StopHammertime

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.




+1
Glad someone said it

Also wanted to point out that ALL.THE.TIME I see people commenting on pictures of models being like 'this is not what real women look like!!!' [something I have always felt was rude btw] and THAT is acceptable? 

Also all the other K's have plastic surgery and get bashed for it, but this person gets tons of it and is applauded?

There are lots of things here that just blow my mind. I do not mean this in a mean way, but this is how I see it and it makes no sense. Everyone agrees because they think they have to but there is a lot of hypocrisy.


----------



## lizmil

Why is any criticism of Caitlyn homo or trans phobic. A criticism is a criticism, equal to all ... all celebs up for grabs. Comment directed at no one in particular


----------



## AEGIS

prettyprincess said:


> Well that's what he is.



Technically drag queens are not nec. transgendered.  They just wear womens clothing for fun, maybe business, but dont want to be women.  some drag queens are transgendered, but transgendered indivuals aren't not drag queens.  It's like two circles that are sep. but might be shaded in the middle for ppl who might fall into both.


----------



## Jayne1

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Maybe Bruce didn't like the spotlight because he was uncomfortable in his skin? Now that he is no longer she feels free and at ease which is why she's in front of the camera more.


I think his self absorption was always there.  No one paid him any attention, that's all. 

If you watched the show, and I know it's scripted, but his knee jerk reaction was to talk about himself whenever he could remind others of his great accomplishments and skills, how proficient he was at certain things which was more than valid! 

He loved bringing the conversation around to himself and away form the K insipidness.

(I'm talking about Bruce, so I'm using the male pronoun.)


----------



## blackkitty4378

So people expect someone who was born a man, went through puberty as a man, probably did steroids (male hormones) during the olympics, to look like the epitome of whatever they think a woman should look like just because that person identifies as a woman? Sorry, but that's just unrealistic. Even with all of her surgeries she's still going to have masculine features, like larger hands and feet, broader shoulders, etc.

I think she looks great, and the most comfortable in her skin that she has ever been, but of course, like Jon Stewart said, now that she's a woman people are going to pick apart and scrutinize her looks no matter what.

You can critique and comment on how she looks all you want but it's just being unfair, not to mention unrealistic.


----------



## Staci_W

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.



YES! this all day


----------



## Meeka41

Sasha2012 said:


> She's only been seen attending various speaking engagements at LGBT centers since her Vanity Fair cover.
> 
> 
> 
> But on Monday night Caitlyn Jenner made her debut on the New York City night scene in a skintight bandage dress as she stepped out for dinner at Tutto Il Giorno.
> 
> 
> 
> The 65-year-old reality star made a glamorous exit from the Tribeca Italian restaurant, making sure all eyes were on her while balancing in a pair of stilettos.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...sade-visit-LGBT-center-NYC.html#ixzz3eWnXXhpJ




She looks so happy I'm happy for her[emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]and she looks amazing [emoji108][emoji108][emoji108]


----------



## AEGIS

nm idc


----------



## Sasha2012

She has been enjoying her debut on the New York City night scene after partying at the Gay Pride Festival over the weekend.

On Tuesday, Caitlyn Jenner, 65, showed no signs of tiring as she stepped out dressed to the nines in a tight-fitting leopard print wrap dress and high heels for a day of shopping at Patricia Field's store in New York. 

It seemed to be a successful trip too, as the reality star was seen leaving in an entirely different outfit just moments later, showing off her legs in a rainbow sequinned mini-skirt.  

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ecurity-handsome-bodyguard.html#ixzz3eb6lrmCO


----------



## Jayne1

Oh Cait&#8230; I just said you were a more substantial person than the Ks&#8230; and all you do is dress up and shop and have your picture taken.


----------



## Jayne1

http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/30/caitl...avage-broadway-photo-new-york-kim-kardashian/


----------



## Coach Lover Too

That bodyguard is hot! Rawr!


----------



## StopHammertime

Reminds me of Janice Dickenson in a lot of these pics.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Amazing what money and surgery can do.


----------



## AEGIS

well she is def a KARDASHIAN w/outfit changes and pap walk


----------



## ChanelMommy

StopHammertime said:


> Reminds me of Janice Dickenson in a lot of these pics.



holly heck yes you hit it right on the nail!


----------



## AEGIS

did Bruce get a weave or is that his hair? it's very luxurious looking and idk if I expected that from a woman her age.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

AEGIS said:


> did Bruce get a weave or is that his hair? it's very luxurious looking and idk if I expected that from a woman her age.



Uh, I'm guessin' it's fake.


----------



## Encore Hermes

AEGIS said:


> did Bruce get a weave or is that his hair? it's very luxurious looking and idk if I expected that from a woman her age.



I think it is a wig


----------



## krissa

Sarni said:


> I don't believe people are brutal with their comments about Caitlyn. The opposite in fact! Everyone is tip toeing around the truth actually!



Oh, I def agree with that. Compared to the female born Kardashians she def gets treated with kid gloves. Minus the blatant transphonic or offensive remarks.


----------



## PekeLuva

S/he still looks like a man wearing wig to me. I dont see anything feminine about him.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Caitlyn has always been treated with kid gloves because people see her as the victim of the K's, and just see Caitlyn as better than them overall. I remember even before she announced that she was transgender and I was criticizing her parenting people were making excuse after excuse for her. The truth is she's no better than them, olympic athlete or not.


----------



## AEGIS

Coach Lover Too said:


> Uh, I'm guessin' it's fake.





Encore Hermes said:


> I think it is a wig
> i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Bruce-Jenner-Does-Shocking-Hair-Transformation-Opts-for-a-Mullet-Photo-453200-2.jpg



I wish neither of you had provided a picture


----------



## Bentley1

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.




[emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]thaaaaank you! 

She does look like a biological man that's dressed as a woman bc that's what she is. 
A biological man dressed as a woman.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Middle of a imo good article. Written 6/12/15

...........And to Caitlyn I would say &#8220;Welcome to our community. We welcome you and wish you well.&#8221; But I would &#8212; and do &#8212; add &#8220;Don&#8217;t besmirch the still fragile reputation of your new community.&#8221;

Unfortunately, that, in many ways, is the effect of what she is doing, as the media portrays her privileged, pampered experience and her publicity-driven rollout as the norm for an economically burdened transgender community, a bleeding community that silently endures more than 150 murders a year and still more suicides. As it focuses on her &#8220;reality&#8221; show, the media, by and large, ignore the reality of the transgender community. People who have to work for a living. People who, having no work, must live on the street. People who can&#8217;t afford her cash-on-the-barrelhead surgeries, and certainly not her team of publicists, photographers, and image consultants. People now shunned by their families and friends. Ours is a community she does not know and for which she cannot speak. Maybe later, but not now, not this way.

.................Unfortunately, in the media circus around Jenner, there is far too much &#8220;expert&#8221; opinion being spewed about the trans community, too much of it without us. Denied full-throated agency, we are relegated to the status of exotic objects to be dissected.

Speaking of objects, there is, finally, the issue of misogyny &#8212; the misogyny that sours a needed conversation between cisgender and transgender women who should be allies, the misogyny that drips from every crevice of this affair, much of it generated by the Kardashians and, yes, Caitlyn who &#8212; wittingly or unwittingly &#8212; has allowed herself to be peddled as a sensationalized, stereotypical sex object.

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/op...gray-transgenders-and-the-brand-jenner-circus


----------



## Bentley1

Sarni said:


> I don't believe people are brutal with their comments about Caitlyn. The opposite in fact! Everyone is tip toeing around the truth actually!




You know it. So much sunshine and roses blown every which way. I'm hard pressed to believe all of it, but whatever.


----------



## Hobbsy

tennisplyr91 said:


> So many rude people making homophobic comments "still looks like a man" "looks like a drag queen" "it will always be bruce"... Geez people



Those aren't homophobic comments! They are people's opinions and everyone has a right to one!


----------



## Hobbsy

Bruce looks like a man dressed as a woman, but hey, nothing wrong with that. He is a man dressed as a woman!


----------



## lvpradalove

zippie said:


> it makes me sick that people are saying he is a hero!  For what?  He has an underage daughter in a relationship with a child molester!  What have these two scum bag parents done to protect their daughter?  Kylie has no education and bruce and skank mom are too busy being into themselves to even care.  Yeah brucie, wear your dresses and makeup and forget about being a father!  This family is disgusting and i blame it all on the parents, including the father that hid evidence and defended a murderer.  What a legacy he left for his kids.




+1


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I remember my very first post on Bruce Jenner's thread and it was just a simple opinion of me stating that I didn't consider him a hero. Omg did I take an a** chewing over that one! It would have been a lot easier to just log off and refuse to discuss things but I was damned if I was going to allow certain people to bully me because of a difference of opinion. Some of the commenters were ruthless. I sure could have used some of y'all.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I remember my very first post on Bruce Jenner's thread and it was just a simple opinion of me stating that I didn't consider him a hero. Omg did I take an a** chewing over that one! It would have been a lot easier to just log off and refuse to discuss things but I was damned if I was going to allow certain people to bully me because of a difference of opinion. Some of the commenters were ruthless. I sure could have used some of y'all.



Well, I agree with you. I don't think there's anything about it that's heroic!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Hobbsy said:


> Well, I agree with you. I don't think there's anything about it that's heroic!


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Of course she'll still have some masculine features. But you have to admit the transformation is pretty remarkable. Great PR for his surgeons. And the styling is sophisticated. 

She sure loves those slingbacks.


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> I remember my very first post on Bruce Jenner's thread and it was just a simple opinion of me stating that I didn't consider him a hero. Omg did I take an a** chewing over that one! It would have been a lot easier to just log off and refuse to discuss things but I was damned if I was going to allow certain people to bully me because of a difference of opinion. Some of the commenters were ruthless. I sure could have used some of y'all.




That's actually an understatement!!!! You were cyber abused. A few times I started to post a public comment for you or PM you but you held your own!  I get heated way too fast...and I don't like the private discipline so I've learned to pick my battles.  Some times I say a lot then go a long time without a peep (unless it's about shoes or a bag).


----------



## prettyprincess

bentley1 said:


> [emoji120][emoji120][emoji120]thaaaaank you!
> 
> She does look like a biological man that's dressed as a woman bc that's what she is.
> A biological man dressed as a woman.



+1


----------



## AEGIS

Coach Lover Too said:


> Uh, I'm guessin' it's fake.





Coach Lover Too said:


> I remember my very first post on Bruce Jenner's thread and it was just a simple opinion of me stating that I didn't consider him a hero. Omg did I take an a** chewing over that one! It would have been a lot easier to just log off and refuse to discuss things but I was damned if I was going to allow certain people to bully me because of a difference of opinion. Some of the commenters were ruthless. I sure could have used some of y'all.



See here's the thing.  I can admit that what Bruce did took some balls [ha!] and is brave but being brave doesn't mean he has to be my hero. But it is ok to me if he is a hero for others. Idc and they shouldn't care about me either.


----------



## skarsbabe

lizmil said:


> Why is any criticism of Caitlyn homo or trans phobic. A criticism is a criticism, equal to all ... all celebs up for grabs. Comment directed at no one in particular



This! Just because we don't like how this one person looks, doesn't mean we fear trans people. We are allowed to think and say opinions here!


----------



## Jayne1

I asked about this before -- there is a trans woman on this year's Big Brother and she is stunning, with no masculine features at all.  Small hands, small feet, lovely face, high voice&#8230; she said she transitioned a few years ago, so she had to be out of her teens when she did.

I can't get over how some guys like Bruce, even with all the money spent on surgery, still looks not quite authentic, but some, like this BB contestant, looks so feminine (not overly sexualized with big boobs and lips)&#8230; just a pretty, natural woman.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

^^ I don't know much of anything about transitioning but I would imagine some people's bodies respond better than others. And Caitlyn's face was already basically destroyed from years of excessive plastic surgery and she's also older. Also the girl on big brother could have always looked more effeminate. Caitlyn's a tall muscular athlete.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mama13drama99 said:


> That's actually an understatement!!!! You were cyber abused. A few times I started to post a public comment for you or PM you but you held your own!  I get heated way too fast...and I don't like the private discipline so I've learned to pick my battles.  Some times I say a lot then go a long time without a peep (unless it's about shoes or a bag).



Thanks, I tried. There were a couple of times I was wishing I'd stayed on the Louis Vuitton side instead of coming here. lol


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Woman into man is a much easier transition, looks wise. This is a born-woman who was on that show Transparent. Never would I ever for a second think this was ever a woman. And also look at Chaz Bono. It takes work to look feminine! We shave, do our hair, put on makeup, etc. much easier to look masculine than feminine.


----------



## amoxie92

Jesus, her skin and hair never looked better. If these are the hormones working their magic, sign me up. His hair is better than mine at almost 30years older.


----------



## Jayne1

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Woman into man is a much easier transition, looks wise. This is a born-woman who was on that show Transparent. Never would I ever for a second think this was ever a woman. And also look at Chaz Bono. It takes work to look feminine! We shave, do our hair, put on makeup, etc. much easier to look masculine than feminine.
> 
> View attachment 3050381



Interesting!


----------



## Jayne1

amoxie92 said:


> Jesus, her skin and hair never looked better. If these are the hormones working their magic, sign me up.* His hair is better than mine at almost 30years older.*



The hair isn't real.


----------



## Sasha2012

She's taken New York by storm after partying at the Gay Pride Festival over the weekend.

And now Caitlyn Jenner is making her debut on Broadway as she was spotted arriving to a performance of An American In Paris on Tuesday night.

The 65-year-old was accompanied by transgender actress Candis Cayne, as she showed off her slim figure in a lacy mini-dress.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ender-actress-Candis-Cayne.html#ixzz3ec5lCPis


----------



## redney

Oof, that last close up pic! Not good.

Too much orange spray tan. This isn't Calabasas, Cait!


----------



## blackkitty4378

AEGIS said:


> See here's the thing.  I can admit that what Bruce did took some balls [ha!] and is brave but being brave doesn't mean he has to be my hero. *But it is ok to me if he is a hero for others.* Idc and they shouldn't care about me either.



Exactly!  Hence the whole closed-minded mentality of "only soldiers/cancer survivors are heroes." Sorry but no one gets to tell someone who is and who is not their hero, or a hero in general. And they should accept that Caitlyn is a hero to some people.


----------



## V0N1B2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I remember my very first post on Bruce Jenner's thread and it was just a simple opinion of me stating that I didn't consider him a hero. Omg did I take an a** chewing over that one! It would have been a lot easier to just log off and refuse to discuss things but I was damned if I was going to allow certain people to bully me because of a difference of opinion. Some of the commenters were ruthless. I sure could have used some of y'all.


Giiiirl, I offered you my disclaimer.  I don't do that for just anyone, you know.
I can still make you one - it's not too late.


----------



## Jikena

I think that it's okay to criticise Caitlyn BUT the way some of you are doing it seems REALLY transphobic and that is not okay. Saying that she looks like a man dressed like a woman and then saying "because that's what he is" is not okay. I don't remember every comment but there were some really hurtful comments on here. I hope that no transsexual is reading this thread...


----------



## Florasun

Just thought I would add this photo from E!


----------



## mama13drama99

To illustrate my "deer in headlights" description...



It can even be better described as "fish out of water", I've had plenty of goldfish as a child to know what that looks like and this is it!!!  How can Caitlyn minimize this look???  It's not good AT ALL!


----------



## mama13drama99

Florasun said:


> Just thought I would add this photo from E!
> View attachment 3050489




Stilettos??? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## lovemysavior

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc ppl keep policing comments and critiques.
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.



Yup all of this!


----------



## shiny_things

prettyprincess said:


> Well that's what he is.



Really? People think this is OK to say about someone who is transgender?

For the last time this is really not hard....

Making fun of things people can help = fine.
Making fun of things people cannot help = not fine.

FWIW, I don't think it's OK to make fun of anyone for things they can't help, not just Caitlyn. Kim's fake *** and terrible surgery, sure, but not Khloes face, for example.

It really seems people cannot tell the difference. Caitlyn is as free to be ridiculed as the rest of the them about many things, but not their transgenderism. You wouldn't make an offensive comment about someones appearance going through chemo, or a lifechanging physical problem, so it's not OK with Caitlyn either. She cannot help that she doesn't yet look like a perfect woman, but she's doing her best. Considering she's been living physically as a man for 60 odd years, I think she's looking pretty good as transitions go. It's goinb to take a while until she looks like the final product so to speak.

Considering we have trans members here, some of y'all could be a lot more respectful.


----------



## shiny_things

Jayne1 said:


> I asked about this before -- there is a trans woman on this year's Big Brother and she is stunning, with no masculine features at all.  Small hands, small feet, lovely face, high voice she said she transitioned a few years ago, so she had to be out of her teens when she did.
> 
> I can't get over how some guys like Bruce, even with all the money spent on surgery, still looks not quite authentic, but some, like this BB contestant, looks so feminine (not overly sexualized with big boobs and lips) just a pretty, natural woman.



The younger you transition, the better the final look. Caitlyn will never have that sort of result, unfortunately, but she'll look the best she can do when she's finished transitioning.


On a seperate note, I don't think she's a hero, nor above reproach for her terrible parenting.


----------



## MJDaisy

caitlyn is KILLING it. her style is better than anyone in the K klan. and let's not forget she is 65. she looks fab. I can only imagine how jealous Kris is.


----------



## Jikena

shiny_things said:


> Really? People think this is OK to say about someone who is transgender?
> 
> For the last time this is really not hard....
> 
> Making fun of things people can help = fine.
> Making fun of things people cannot help = not fine.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it's OK to make fun of anyone for things they can't help, not just Caitlyn. Kim's fake *** and terrible surgery, sure, but not Khloes face, for example.
> 
> It really seems people cannot tell the difference. Caitlyn is as free to be ridiculed as the rest of the them about many things, but not their transgenderism. You wouldn't make an offensive comment about someones appearance going through chemo, or a lifechanging physical problem, so it's not OK with Caitlyn either. She cannot help that she doesn't yet look like a perfect woman, but she's doing her best. Considering she's been living physically as a man for 60 odd years, I think she's looking pretty good as transitions go. It's goinb to take a while until she looks like the final product so to speak.
> 
> Considering we have trans members here, some of y'all could be a lot more respectful.



PERFECTLY SAID. Thank you.


----------



## dooneybaby

Florasun said:


> Just thought I would add this photo from E!
> View attachment 3050489


That skirt length is not working for her. Makes her look like she has 3 inches thigh gap. She should stick to around the knee for a skirt or dress length.


----------



## pittcat

So we can't comment on Caitlyn's appearance anymore?.... Probably just need to close this thread then.


----------



## Yoshi1296

shiny_things said:


> Really? People think this is OK to say about someone who is transgender?
> 
> 
> 
> For the last time this is really not hard....
> 
> 
> 
> Making fun of things people can help = fine.
> 
> Making fun of things people cannot help = not fine.
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it's OK to make fun of anyone for things they can't help, not just Caitlyn. Kim's fake *** and terrible surgery, sure, but not Khloes face, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> It really seems people cannot tell the difference. Caitlyn is as free to be ridiculed as the rest of the them about many things, but not their transgenderism. You wouldn't make an offensive comment about someones appearance going through chemo, or a lifechanging physical problem, so it's not OK with Caitlyn either. She cannot help that she doesn't yet look like a perfect woman, but she's doing her best. Considering she's been living physically as a man for 60 odd years, I think she's looking pretty good as transitions go. It's goinb to take a while until she looks like the final product so to speak.
> 
> 
> 
> Considering we have trans members here, some of y'all could be a lot more respectful.




YES!! I agree!!


----------



## mama13drama99

pittcat said:


> So we can't comment on Caitlyn's appearance anymore?.... Probably just need to close this thread then.




Exactly!!! 

Miss me with all the preaching!  

I won't ever speak for the others, but for me (one who feels that Caitlyn doesn't make a pretty woman-don't really care about or consider that her age is a hindrance (e.g. "she is 65 years old after all") and the "she can't help it" rubbish- and that most photos of her have her looking like a fish out of water): 
I SAID WHAT I SAID AND IT AIN'T CHANGING!!!  
And if I could underline and make that bold from my phone I would!!! 
I can separate, so it has nothing to do with all transgender people!  Caitlyn ain't cute or pretty!! Point. Blank. Period.  B. Smith and Laverne Cox are beautiful! 
(To be a smidgen fair, I didn't see NA-THING handsome about Bruce...young athlete or middle aged seemingly detached annoyance)!


----------



## Yoshi1296

pittcat said:


> So we can't comment on Caitlyn's appearance anymore?.... Probably just need to close this thread then.




Everyone is definitely ALLOWED to comment on her appearance (clothes, shoes, etc.) and even her face too like makeup or "omg there is a booger sticking out of her nose!" but some of the people use it as an excuse to make transphobic comments (WHICH IS NOT OKAY). Or some of them just don't realize and just accidentally make transphobic comments thinking it is just about her appearance. But I highly doubt that, yall know damn well what you guys are writing and the things are so rude it makes me so angry. I just wanna see how some of these members look since they are critiquing Caitlyn's face SO much. 

I guess some members here just don't understand that after transitioning or even during transition, you don't always look as perfect as people think, unfortunately. It sucks but it is true. It's like the people that think buying a high end designer item means it should be PERFECT in every way. That's impossible. I am NOT saying they aren't beautiful, but the little flaws you have make you beautiful. Caitlyn still looks great imo. No one looks perfect. But Caitlyn is definitely getting close. 

The main problem is that transphobic appearance comments are NOT okay but comments on material things that contributes to her appearance (outfits and makeup) are totally fine. I hope this make sense.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Yoshi1296 said:


> Everyone is definitely ALLOWED to comment on her appearance (clothes, shoes, etc.) and even her face too like makeup or "omg there is a booger sticking out of her nose!" but some of the people use it as an excuse to make transphobic comments as well (WHICH IS NOT OKAY). Or some of them just don't realize and just accidentally make transphobic comments thinking it is just about her appearance. (But I highly doubt that, yall know damn well what you guys are writing.) I just wanna see how some of these members look at the age of 65 or older since they are critiquing Caitlyn's face SO much.
> 
> I guess some members here just don't understand that after transitioning or even during transition, you don't always look as perfect as people think, unfortunately. It sucks but it is true.It's like the people that think buying a high end designer item means it should be PERFECT in every way. That's impossible. I am NOT saying they aren't beautiful, *but the little flaws you have make you beautiful.* Caitlyn still looks great imo. *No one looks perfect *. But Caitlyn is definitely getting close.
> 
> The main problem is that transphobic appearance comments are NOT okay but comments on material things that contributes to her appearance (outfits and makeup) are totally fine. I hope this make sense.



but you saying Tyga looks like a turtle is OK


----------



## mama13drama99

Still not moved!!!  
And o hate when it gets to the "what you look like" retort!  I ain't plastered on social media (where my stuff is completely open to the public)!  Furthermore, no one who points out...
Never mind...like I said, miss me with it! 
The more the pearl cluthers police and ridicule the more steadfast I am in my thoughts on Caitlyn's appearance! 

I SAID WHAT I'VE SAID AND I SINT CHANGING IT!!!


----------



## Yoshi1296

Encore Hermes said:


> but you saying Tyga looks like a turtle is OK




Okay I give up.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Yoshi1296 said:


> LMFAO I was joking






_Originally Posted by Bentley1
THIS! I can barely stand to look at him without cringing. He is gag worthy._



> I agree. He looks like a turtle.




:okay:


----------



## blackkitty4378

I wonder how Caitlyn feels about the way she looks, or if other transgender people like Caitlyn who aren't able to fully look like the gender they want to be are upset about it or something. That seems kind of sad to me.

I mean, there's not much anyone can do about their bone structure&#8230;

It's just the fact like, I don't know, you're calling someone the gender that they have spent thousands of dollars of surgery on to change because they couldn't stand the way they felt inside their body&#8230; seems kinda harsh but whatever.


----------



## NovemberRain

shiny_things said:


> Really? People think this is OK to say about someone who is transgender?
> 
> For the last time this is really not hard....
> 
> Making fun of things people can help = fine.
> Making fun of things people cannot help = not fine.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it's OK to make fun of anyone for things they can't help, not just Caitlyn. Kim's fake *** and terrible surgery, sure, but not Khloes face, for example.
> 
> It really seems people cannot tell the difference. Caitlyn is as free to be ridiculed as the rest of the them about many things, but not their transgenderism. You wouldn't make an offensive comment about someones appearance going through chemo, or a lifechanging physical problem, so it's not OK with Caitlyn either. She cannot help that she doesn't yet look like a perfect woman, but she's doing her best. Considering she's been living physically as a man for 60 odd years, I think she's looking pretty good as transitions go. It's goinb to take a while until she looks like the final product so to speak.
> 
> Considering we have trans members here, some of y'all could be a lot more respectful.


  +1000 Awesome post!


----------



## Yoshi1296

blackkitty4378 said:


> I wonder how Caitlyn feels about the way she looks, or if other transgender people like Caitlyn who aren't able to fully look like the gender they want to be are upset about it or something. That seems kind of sad to me.
> 
> I mean, there's not much anyone can do about their bone structure
> 
> It's just the fact like, I don't know, you're calling someone the gender that they have spent thousands of dollars of surgery on to change because they couldn't stand the way they felt inside their body seems kinda harsh but whatever.




You're right. It's not harsh. It sucks because some people look AMAZING after transitioning and unfortunately, some people don't look as flawless. It is sad.


----------



## DC-Cutie

AEGIS said:


> she looks OK at best.  yall are just being nice bc *ppl keep policing comments and critiques.*
> 
> i mean ppl in Khloe's thread say she looks like a man every other comment [and i do not see these same ppl defending her] but an actual man who was born a man, and lived as man for 65 years transitions and becomes a woman and you can't say "good for you and nice try but i ain't buying what you're selling?"  or "you still look like the biological male that you are?" why is a newly minted woman given more sympathy than a biological female? or why is it ok to comment on "how much better she looks than Kris?" give.me.a.break w/your hypocrisy and inconsistency.


 
Preach on it!!!!

I've been on tPF for quite some time and this has always killed me.  It's OK to say something about one celeb, but say the exact same thing about another and you got the PoPo all up in your comments, catching feelings!


----------



## prettyprincess

shiny_things said:


> Really? People think this is OK to say about someone who is transgender?
> 
> For the last time this is really not hard....
> 
> Making fun of things people can help = fine.
> Making fun of things people cannot help = not fine.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it's OK to make fun of anyone for things they can't help, not just Caitlyn. Kim's fake *** and terrible surgery, sure, but not Khloes face, for example.
> 
> It really seems people cannot tell the difference. Caitlyn is as free to be ridiculed as the rest of the them about many things, but not their transgenderism. You wouldn't make an offensive comment about someones appearance going through chemo, or a lifechanging physical problem, so it's not OK with Caitlyn either. She cannot help that she doesn't yet look like a perfect woman, but she's doing her best. Considering she's been living physically as a man for 60 odd years, I think she's looking pretty good as transitions go. It's goinb to take a while until she looks like the final product so to speak.
> 
> Considering we have trans members here, some of y'all could be a lot more respectful.



Yes, really. He is a man dressed as a woman. If its disrespectful to state a fact, then oh well. An I don't think comparing him to someone who is fighting a life threatening disease is the right analogy.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Can we get a sidebar or something here with links about what gender and biological sex are, along with what different male and female hormones are because people honestly just don't take the time to read up on things before they make comments like "Caitlyn is just a man dressed as a woman" (which is false BTW). That's how reddit handles stuff like that so that people that have questions can read up on it first. I think that's a good idea because people saying the same things over and over again kind of regresses the conversation.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Anyway, is she wearing a DVF wrap dress?


----------



## sdkitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> Can we get a sidebar or something here with links about what gender and biological sex are, along with what different male and female hormones are because people honestly just don't take the time to read up on things before they make comments like "Caitlyn is just a man dressed as a woman" (which is false BTW). That's how reddit handles stuff like that so that people that have questions can read up on it first. I think that's a good idea because people saying the same things over and over again kind of regresses the conversation.


I'm sorry if saying something about this particular transgender person offends other transgender people who may be on this forum.  But to say she looks beautiful w/o qualification, implying she looks like a beautiful woman (born as a woman) just isn't true.  She looks like a man with somewhat fine features who has had a lot of help with cosmetic procedures, clothing, makeup, hair extensions (or wigs).
Looks like she's enjoying life, putting herself out there and that's going to get comments, pro and con.


----------



## blackkitty4378

sdkitty said:


> I'm sorry if saying something about this particular transgender person offends other transgender people who may be on this forum.  But to say she looks beautiful w/o qualification, implying she looks like a beautiful woman (born as a woman) just isn't true.  She looks like a man with somewhat fine features who has had a lot of help with cosmetic procedures, clothing, makeup, hair extensions (or wigs).
> Looks like she's enjoying life, putting herself out there and that's going to get comments, pro and con.



Did I say that people need to say that she looks beautiful? No. While I may think it's a little unfair to critique her appearance and to compare her to someone born a woman due to the fact that she went through puberty as a man and lived as a man for 60+ years, people are entitled to do that.

What I'm sick of is the amount of willfull ignorance on this thread about what it even means to be transgender. She is not a man dressed as a woman, when you don't even know what defines a man and a woman! (Hint: it's not just a penis or a vagina!)

I think a sidebar would make it really convenient for people to click on links to learn about what being transgender means, the differences between gender, sex, chromosomes, hormones, etc. Plus, a sidebar with credible sources on the matter could do a lot better job explaining it to people than we could. Everything gets explained accurately, people learn, and the discussion can progress.


----------



## sdkitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> Did I say that people need to say that she looks beautiful? No. While I may think it's a little unfair to critique her appearance and to compare her to someone born a woman due to the fact that she went through puberty as a man and lived as a man for 60+ years, people are entitled to do that.
> 
> What I'm sick of is the amount of willfull ignorance on this thread about what it even means to be transgender. She is not a man dressed as a woman, when you don't even know what defines a man and a woman! (Hint: it's not just a penis or a vagina!)
> 
> I think a sidebar would make it really convenient for people to click on links to learn about what being transgender means, the differences between gender, sex, chromosomes, hormones, etc. Plus, a sidebar with credible sources on the matter could do a lot better job explaining it to people than we could. Everything gets explained accurately, people learn, and the discussion can progress.


that's fine but I do see people on here saying (w/o qualification) that she looks beautiful


----------



## blackkitty4378

sdkitty said:


> that's fine but I do see people on here saying (w/o qualification) that she looks beautiful



Maybe she does look beautiful to them. I'm confused about what you mean by "w/o qualification." Without qualification of what?


----------



## sdkitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> Maybe she does look beautiful to them. I'm confused about what you mean by "w/o qualification." Without qualification of what?


as I said before, she does not look like a beautiful woman to me
she looks like a transgender or a man dressed as a woman with the advantage of lots of help from cosmetic surgery hair, makeup, etc.
This doesn't mean that I don't understand that she is no longer purely a man.  Just saying she still looks like a man dressed as a woman to me.


----------



## blackkitty4378

sdkitty said:


> as I said before, she does not look like a beautiful woman to me
> she looks like a transgender or a man dressed as a woman with the advantage of lots of help from cosmetic surgery hair, makeup, etc.
> This doesn't mean that I don't understand that she is no longer purely a man.  Just saying she still looks like a man dressed as a woman to me.



Well my first comment wasn't directed at you. Someone literally said that she's a man dressed as a woman. She's a transgender woman.


----------



## DC-Cutie

she really does look like a man dressed as a woman...


----------



## PekeLuva

I dont understand why we have to baby the trans community so much. We have to watch everything we say to spare their feelings. Its hurtful to say a trans looking like a man dressing like a woman (its true) but i dont see the same reaction for when people saying a fat chick is fat and ugly. 

What is so heroic about a man wanting to become a woman at 65 yr old? Calling him a hero is just going to put down other true heros that have been sacrificing their lives to help others. What this man has done is just for himself and his own pleasure. His comingout has no great impact on the world so please save the world hero for someone else who really is. 

I am not homophobic. In fact i do not care that they are now able to get married legally. It has nothing to do with me. I believe they can do whatever they want but if i have to baby them because they are trans, i'd have issues with that. If they want equal rights, they should expect equal treatments as well.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Kitties Are Cute I tried to PM you but your inbox is full.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

IF I didn't grow up with Bruce looking like this>>>>>







then yes, it would probably be easier for me to look at the pics of Caitlyn and and have an easier time adjusting to the difference, however, I come from a different generation than most of you and since that's how I've seen him for YEARS, it's hard not to look at the female version and not see Bruce dressed as a woman. If I weren't familiar with Bruce, I have no doubt I would still see a male wanting to be a female but it wouldn't be as obvious. I agree with whoever said just go ahead and close the thread because if we can't discuss what seems obvious to a lot of us, then why bother.

Someone close to Caitlyn needs to tell her enough with the cleavage and short skirts though. She's starting to push her luck.
Makes me wonder why Bruce never needed a body guard but Caitlyn does. I would think Bruce or Caitlyn could still kick a** no matter what the choice of clothing.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

blackkitty4378 said:


> Kitties Are Cute I tried to PM you but your inbox is full.



Just emptied it ! Should be open now.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Because some mentally ill person is probably going to try to attack her now that she's transgender. They do have hate crimes committed against them... I'll try to find some stats later for those who are interested.

One public figure said that he hopes her heart explodes in her chest and that she dies and goes to hell. No joke. Some people have a lot of hate and you never know if someone who says things like they want her to die is going to act on it or not. A mentally ill person certainly could.


----------



## redney

DC-Cutie said:


> Anyway, is she wearing a DVF wrap dress?



Yep 

TLo had a good write up on it and some of the other things currently discussed on this thread. Hm, the pictures didn't come through.

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/07/style-triple-shot-caitlyn-jenner-in-diane-von-furstenberg-in-nyc/

*[FONT=&quot]Style Triple Shot: Caitlyn Jenner in NYC[/FONT]*
  [FONT=&quot]Posted on July 01, 2015 [/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Let&#8217;s talk about Caitlyn&#8217;s style, shall we, darlings? Let&#8217;s also talk about T Lo, because that&#8217;s our favorite topic in the world.[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Yesterday, we featured Miss Caitlyn out on the town, attention-seeking like the E! reality star she is, and offered some mild criticisms the same as any we&#8217;d make for any woman wearing an outfit like that in her age range and with her body type. There was no explosion of outrage or anything like that, but we could feel from the responses both here and on social media that people were seizing up at the idea of criticizing her looks. But here&#8217;s the thing from our perspective: While it&#8217;s true that she has become a spokesperson for a cause and in many ways an inspirational figure and even role model, for the purposes of this site and our own perspectives, we&#8217;re going to see her as very wealthy and attention-seeking ladystar with a very flashy personal style and a need to promote herself because she&#8217;s got a new reality TV show coming out soon. She can be both things at once, but since you come here for the celebrity style talk, that&#8217;s the side of her we&#8217;re looking at.[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]When Laverne Cox hit the scene and we found ourselves regularly writing about the style choices of a transgender woman, we assessed our approach to make sure we weren&#8217;t bringing any preconceptions or prejudicial thinking to our writing and found that there was one simple way to keep our thoughts true. All we had to say &#8211; and we only had to say it once or twice before it stuck &#8211; is, &#8220;She&#8217;s a woman.&#8221;[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Not a _transgender_ woman, although that&#8217;s what she and Caitlyn are. But for style purposes and for this site in particular, it&#8217;s important to us that we write about women like Laverne and Caitlyn in exactly the same manner we&#8217;d write about their contemporaries like Beyonce and Helen Mirren. We&#8217;d be doing them a disservice if we treated them any differently, frankly. We don&#8217;t say this to erase their trans identities and we sure as hell don&#8217;t say it to pat ourselves on the backs, but Caitlyn&#8217;s clearly on the poledance at the moment and her decades as a Kardashian family member have rendered her WORLD CLASS in that regard. There&#8217;s no need to treat her like a saint. She&#8217;s sporting tons of free designer clothes (WAY more than Laverne gets, we&#8217;ll note), dressing like a Real Housewife on an AmEx bender and working the press and the paps like the Olympic level attention whore she is. Like everyone else in her extended clan, she WANTS you talking about her.[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]So let&#8217;s get to work and JUDGE, kittens. Because that&#8217;s the other thing: girlfriend needs a stylist badly.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
	

[/FONT]_[FONT=&quot]Caitlyn Jenner seen out and about in NYC in a Diane von Furstenberg leopard print wrap dress paired with black slingbacks.[/FONT]_​  [FONT=&quot]The dress works really well for her, although it&#8217;s another instance of a sleeve length that isn&#8217;t quite working for her. She looks pretty damned toned to us and she certainly has no problem showing off her legs, so we&#8217;re curious as to why she seems reluctant to uncover more of her arms.[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]The accessorizing isn&#8217;t good. She clearly loves those slingbacks, and while we&#8217;re sure the range of shoe options are limited for her size (although she&#8217;s crazy wealthy, so that shouldn&#8217;t be too much of an issue), she needs to open things up a bit more. The black accessories don&#8217;t read as daytime and the dress needs something to keep it a little on the playful side. A pair of wedge heels would&#8217;ve been our choice. And a brown or white bag.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
	

[/FONT]_[FONT=&quot]Caitlyn Jennerspotted leaving the Patricia Field store in NoHo, NYC in a multicolored sequin mini dress paired with a black blazer and slingbacks.[/FONT]_
  [FONT=&quot]Now see, here is why you come to us. For the blunt assessments that the big celebrity and fashion sites (who all praised this look) won&#8217;t give you. This is _awful_ and we have no problem saying it. She&#8217;s working her way through a style evolution and trying to figure some things out, sure. But she&#8217;s got more cash than she knows what to do with and could hire the best stylists in the business to guide her away from mistakes like this. It&#8217;s all way too try-hard. The jacket, dress and bag don&#8217;t go together at all and every piece looks too drag queen or trend whore. We&#8217;re all for her expressing herself and more power to her if she wants to dress like a cross between a Playboy model and Edina Monsoon, but for sidewalk sashay purposes, we&#8217;re gonna call it like we see it. This is a bad look.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]
	

[/FONT]_[FONT=&quot]Caitlyn Jenner seen arriving for Broadway play &#8220;An American in Paris&#8221; in NYC in a Diane von Furstenberg &#8216;Julianna&#8217; three quarter sleeve lace wrap dress paired with black slingbacks.[/FONT]_​  [FONT=&quot]This, on the other hand, is the best thing she&#8217;s ever worn, as far as we&#8217;re concerned. She looks sexy and pretty and the dress looks great on her. She is much better off when she shoots for softly feminine over fierce-as-****. This is what a good stylist would tell her. Just as they would tell her to stop finishing off every look with the same boring shoes and bag. This is one lady who needs some serious lessons in the art of accessorizing.[/FONT]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> Because some mentally ill person is probably going to try to attack her now that she's transgender. They do have hate crimes committed against them... I'll try to find some stats later for those who are interested.
> 
> One public figure said that he hopes her heart explodes in her chest and that she dies and goes to hell. No joke. Some people have a lot of hate and you never know if someone who says things like they want her to die is going to act on it or not. A mentally ill person certainly could.



Well that's just horrible and I do empathize with them.

As far as Caitlyn is concerned, the fact that she seems to be turning into one of the Kardashians is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not that she professes to be transgender or anything related to that subject, but the fact that she's been a part of that family for so long and seems to be turning into a fame ho just like the rest of them is what turns my stomach.


----------



## zippie

encore hermes said:


> but you saying tyga looks like a turtle is ok


 


lmao


----------



## labelwhore04

Jikena said:


> I think that it's okay to criticise Caitlyn BUT the way some of you are doing it seems REALLY transphobic and that is not okay. Saying that she looks like a man dressed like a woman and then saying "because that's what he is" is not okay. I don't remember every comment but there were some really hurtful comments on here. I hope that no transsexual is reading this thread...



+1. I've been reading a LOT of transphobic comments in this thread. There's a huge difference between judging someones appearance and making offensive comments. Remember that it's not _what_ you say but _how_ you say it. Calling Caitlyn a drag queen and "a man playing dress up" is just downright ignorant.


----------



## sdkitty

PekeLuva said:


> I dont understand why we have to baby the trans community so much. We have to watch everything we say to spare their feelings. Its hurtful to say a trans looking like a man dressing like a woman (its true) but i dont see the same reaction for when people saying a fat chick is fat and ugly.
> 
> What is so heroic about a man wanting to become a woman at 65 yr old? Calling him a hero is just going to put down other true heros that have been sacrificing their lives to help others. What this man has done is just for himself and his own pleasure. His comingout has no great impact on the world so please save the world hero for someone else who really is.
> 
> I am not homophobic. In fact i do not care that they are now able to get married legally. It has nothing to do with me. I believe they can do whatever they want but if i have to baby them because they are trans, i'd have issues with that. If they want equal rights, they should expect equal treatments as well.


there are some here who will get angry if you say someone is fat.......I posted one time that I'd seen a heavy girl with large thighs wearing short shorts in winter in a restaurant and I was basically looked upon as a hater for saying that I thought she could cover up


----------



## Hobbsy

First of all, Bruce is a man.....I didn't fail anatomy class. He might not feel like a man or identify as one, but he is. Second, I could care less if he's a man or a woman, I think he should do what he wants. Third, he looks like a man dressed as a woman and right now that's what he us and the way it is.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Hobbsy said:


> First of all, Bruce is a man.....I didn't fail anatomy class. He might not feel like a man or identify as one, but he is. Second, I could care less if he's a man or a woman, I think he should do what he wants. Third, he looks like a man dressed as a woman and right now that's what he us and the way it is.



Having a penis doesn't make someone a man. Having XY chromosomes doesn't always mean someone is a man; there are different variations and there are men that are born with XX and vice versa. So unless you've tested her DNA you don't know what she really is, chromosome wise. So the whole XX = female and XY = male logic is ruled out.

You might see it as black and white, penis = man and vagina = woman but the truth is that variations exist in nature, there are people that are born with both, etc.

Then there are hormones which really influence how we look. Caitlyn is taking female hormones but obviously she went through puberty as a man so those things such as broad shoulders, large hands and feet aren't going to go away from hormones.


----------



## Hobbsy

blackkitty4378 said:


> Having a penis doesn't make someone a man. Having XY chromosomes doesn't always mean someone is a man; there are different variations and there are men that are born with XX and vice versa. So unless you've tested her DNA you don't know what she really is, chromosome wise. So the whole XX = female and XY = male logic is ruled out.
> 
> You might see it as black and white, penis = man and vagina = woman but the truth is that variations exist in nature, there are people that are born with both, etc.



Yes there are variations and people born with both. I said what I said because that's my opinion and I'll stay with it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

You can't change someone's DNA and you're right, we haven't tested his, but with that said, if his DNA proves he is and has been female, then not only is he a fame ho, he's deceitful. Didn't he participate in the Olympics as male? He can't have it both ways.


----------



## DC-Cutie

blackkitty4378 said:


> Having a penis doesn't make someone a man..




but, but, but...  Bruce has said 'I'm a man'


----------



## blackkitty4378

Idk, I'm a little rusty on this topic and I need to look it up more myself, but I'm pretty sure what puberty you go through (male vs female) depends on whatever gonads you have. Hence why she looks male because when she was growing and developing into an adult, she had testosterone influencing her body structure.


----------



## sdkitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> You can't change someone's DNA and you're right, we haven't tested his, but with that said, if his DNA proves he is and has been female, then not only is he a fame ho, he's deceitful. Didn't he participate in the Olympics as male? He can't have it both ways.


I have to differ with you there.  Olympics were many years ago and he was living as and trying to be a man back then.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

sdkitty said:


> I have to differ with you there.  Olympics were many years ago and he was living as and trying to be a man back then.



That's true, but he also admitted that he knew as a child that he was more female. 
Either  he wasn't honest then, or he's not being honest now. Honestly, I  question everything he says and does and he can thank his relationship  with the K's for that.


----------



## shiny_things

labelwhore04 said:


> +1. I've been reading a LOT of transphobic comments in this thread. There's a huge difference between judging someones appearance and making offensive comments. Remember that it's not _what_ you say but _how_ you say it. Calling Caitlyn a drag queen and "a man playing dress up" is just downright ignorant.



This exactly.

If she chooses a terrible outfit or is wearing awful make up or something SHE CAN HELP, then go for it.

But saying proper transphobic comments such as 'she's just a man in drag', 'she still looks like a man', she'll always be a man' etc is not OK because SHE CAN'T HELP IT.

It's not about whether people think what they are saying is OK, the important thing is if it is or not. People say raciss, sexist things all the time and quite rightly, get called on it. So in the same way, if you're going to be transphobic on an open forum, you're going to get called on it. So don't say it and then whine when you get pulled up for it.

It's not about giving her a free pass or avoiding all criticism, it's specifically about not be transphobic.

I really do hope most of those comments have been out of ignorance rather than genuine malice.


----------



## V0N1B2

Was Caitlyn actually participating in the NYC Pride Parade? Or just partying with celebs in a hotel room overlooking the parade? #forthesakeoffilming


----------



## Eva1991

labelwhore04 said:


> +1. I've been reading a lot of transphobic comments in this thread. There's a huge difference between judging someones appearance and making offensive comments. Remember that it's not _what_ you say but _how_ you say it. Calling caitlyn a drag queen and "a man playing dress up" is just downright ignorant.



+1


----------



## prettyprincess

blackkitty4378 said:


> Having a penis doesn't make someone a man. Having XY chromosomes doesn't always mean someone is a man; there are different variations and there are men that are born with XX and vice versa. So unless you've tested her DNA you don't know what she really is, chromosome wise. So the whole XX = female and XY = male logic is ruled out.
> 
> You might see it as black and white, penis = man and vagina = woman but the truth is that variations exist in nature, there are people that are born with both, etc.
> 
> Then there are hormones which really influence how we look. Caitlyn is taking female hormones but obviously she went through puberty as a man so those things such as broad shoulders, large hands and feet aren't going to go away from hormones.



So, since a penis doesn't make you a man, a vagina doesn't make you a woman, xx/xy are irrelevant, what makes him a woman?  hes a woman simply bc he feels like hes a woman? even though he was never  female. Makes sense.


----------



## Jayne1

V0N1B2 said:


> Was Caitlyn actually participating in the NYC Pride Parade? Or just partying with celebs in a hotel room overlooking the parade? #forthesakeoffilming


Exactly .. she was filming her reality show.


----------



## Hobbsy

shiny_things said:


> This exactly.
> 
> If she chooses a terrible outfit or is wearing awful make up or something SHE CAN HELP, then go for it.
> 
> But saying proper transphobic comments such as 'she's just a man in drag', 'she still looks like a man', she'll always be a man' etc is not OK because SHE CAN'T HELP IT.
> 
> It's not about whether people think what they are saying is OK, the important thing is if it is or not. People say raciss, sexist things all the time and quite rightly, get called on it. So in the same way, if you're going to be transphobic on an open forum, you're going to get called on it. So don't say it and then whine when you get pulled up for it.
> 
> It's not about giving her a free pass or avoiding all criticism, it's specifically about not be transphobic.
> 
> I really do hope most of those comments have been out of ignorance rather than genuine malice.



If people think he looks like a man with a dress on that's not transphobic, that's called an opinion. Really two very different things!


----------



## pursegrl12

Jikena said:


> I think that it's okay to criticise Caitlyn BUT the way some of you are doing it seems REALLY transphobic and that is not okay. *Saying that she looks like a man dressed like a woman and then saying "because that's what he is" is not okay.* I don't remember every comment but there were some really hurtful comments on here. I hope that no transsexual is reading this thread...



why? it is a FACT, not an opinion or even a critique. it's a plain and simple fact. the sky is blue. "Caitlyn" is a man.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Jayne1 said:


> Exactly .. she was filming her reality show.



lmao. Gonna start calling her Kardashian for realz.


----------



## Hobbsy

pursegrl12 said:


> why? it is a FACT, not an opinion or even a critique. it's a plain and simple fact. the sky is blue. "Caitlyn" is a man.



Well, again,  that's your opinion. It is my opinion that he is a man dressed like a woman and that's ok.


----------



## Hobbsy

pursegrl12 said:


> why? it is a FACT, not an opinion or even a critique. it's a plain and simple fact. the sky is blue. "Caitlyn" is a man.



Sorry, for my last post....quoted the wrong person &#9786;


----------



## Bentley1

pittcat said:


> So we can't comment on Caitlyn's appearance anymore?.... Probably just need to close this thread then.




Apparently, the only comments that are acceptable now are ones where people praise her. I've heard negative parenting comments are acceptable but all else is "not ok." So, those are the new rules that some have taken upon themselves to create for this particular thread now. Dare to make any other type of comment and you'll get an earful.


----------



## Bentley1

mama13drama99 said:


> Still not moved!!!
> And o hate when it gets to the "what you look like" retort!  I ain't plastered on social media (where my stuff is completely open to the public)!  Furthermore, no one who points out...
> Never mind...like I said, miss me with it!
> The more the pearl cluthers police and ridicule the more steadfast I am in my thoughts on Caitlyn's appearance!
> 
> I SAID WHAT I'VE SAID AND I SINT CHANGING IT!!!




Lol. The policing is OUT OF CONTROL. I find it funny that folks are attempting to discipline and chastise other grown folks for their opinions. Do people really think Others are going to be shamed and schooled into saying "oh, You're so right, Caitlyn is beautifullll and doesn't look like a bio man dressed as a woman." Or "she isn't possibly doing all of this for the attention." If that's what someone thinks, that's what someone thinks. End of story. 

People are actually saying "This is OK to say, but this ISN'T OK." "Post about this, but
Don't post about that." On a PUBLIC forum. Lmao. Give me a break. [emoji28]


----------



## Yoshi1296

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's true, but he also admitted that he knew as a child that he was more female.
> Either  he wasn't honest then, or he's not being honest now. Honestly, I  question everything he says and does and he can thank his relationship  with the K's for that.




Or maybe he was hiding it so that he does not face judgement and humiliation. People were not as accepting as they are nowadays. Maybe if he was open about, he wouldn't have been able to perform in the Olympics.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> Apparently, the only comments that are acceptable now are ones where people praise her. I've heard negative parenting comments are acceptable but all else is "not ok." So, those are the new rules that some have taken upon themselves to create for this particular thread now. Dare to make any other type of comment and you'll get an earful.



Nailed it.

If I were on a transgender support website and someone posted a picture of themselves and I thought *Jeez, that still looks like a man dressed as a woman* there is no way I would say anything out of respect for that person, BUT for the fact that this is a gossip thread (dedicated to someone that I don't trust) AND not a transgender support thread then it's a free for all as far as I'm concerned. There's no proof Jenner is a woman other than her saying so, and we know how that family and the truth are strangers.

I would think *if* there were transgender people reading here that they have enough common sense to know that the J & K families aren't very well liked and take that into consideration before taking comments personal.


----------



## pursegrl12

Hobbsy said:


> Sorry, for my last post....quoted the wrong person &#9786;


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Transgender model Jenna Talackova









Absolutely gorgeous because this is the way I've always known her and when I see the pictures, I definitely see female. 
Bruce on the other hand still looks like Bruce to me. It has nothing to do with being transgender (or not) and everything to do with what his character is. Granted maybe it would have been difficult for him to come out 60 years ago, but you can't use that excuse about him waiting until he has one foot in the ground. He's had at least the last 30 years but now that the K's were running out of story lines, THEN he decides. Alrighty then.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

It's finally dawned on me who Caitlyn reminds me of! Dr. Phil's wife Robin McGraw!


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Transgender model Jenna Talackova
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely gorgeous because this is the way I've always known her and when I see the pictures, I definitely see female.
> Bruce on the other hand still looks like Bruce to me. It has nothing to do with being transgender (or not) and everything to do with what his character is. Granted maybe it would have been difficult for him to come out 60 years ago, but you can't use that excuse about him waiting until he has one foot in the ground. He's had at least the last 30 years but now that the K's were running out of story lines, THEN he decides. Alrighty then.


She's Canadian and they gave her a reality show, which I watched a bit of... her voice is a giveaway. She also has no personality, like she's been consumed with not being female her whole life and never developed in any other way.

I say this because the reality show was horrible&#8230; she's pretty, but that's not enough of a reason to give her a reality show.

Back to Cait&#8230; and back to the topic...


----------



## BadAzzBish

coach lover too said:


> it's finally dawned on me who caitlyn reminds me of! Dr. Phil's wife robin mcgraw!



:d


----------



## tweegy

Encore Hermes said:


> but you saying Tyga looks like a turtle is OK



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] I'm sorry, but this just cracked me up!



V0N1B2 said:


> Was Caitlyn actually participating in the NYC Pride Parade? Or just partying with celebs in a hotel room overlooking the parade? #forthesakeoffilming



#iseewhatyoudidthere



blackkitty4378 said:


> Because some mentally ill person is probably going to try to attack her now that she's transgender. They do have hate crimes committed against them... I'll try to find some stats later for those who are interested.
> 
> 
> 
> One public figure said that he hopes her heart explodes in her chest and that she dies and goes to hell. No joke. Some people have a lot of hate and you never know if someone who says things like they want her to die is going to act on it or not. A mentally ill person certainly could.




[emoji52] someone actually said that??? Wth is really wrong with some folks? Very angry.


----------



## mama13drama99

Bentley1 said:


> Lol. The policing is OUT OF CONTROL. I find it funny that folks are attempting to discipline and chastise other grown folks for their opinions. Do people really think Others are going to be shamed and schooled into saying "oh, You're so right, Caitlyn is beautifullll and doesn't look like a bio man dressed as a woman." Or "she isn't possibly doing all of this for the attention." If that's what someone thinks, that's what someone thinks. End of story.
> 
> People are actually saying "This is OK to say, but this ISN'T OK." "Post about this, but
> Don't post about that." On a PUBLIC forum. Lmao. Give me a break. [emoji28]




Get out of my thoughts!!!  Things were non-stop at the workplace today so I couldn't steal a moment to visit the forum (I'm stalking the Louboutin sale thread for updates, lol) and I'm so glad!!!  I probably would have said something to get a time out or banned.  

I really stomached as much as possible when this first started.  But the mega-praise is too much.  Has she had some hits?  Okay, I'll give her two or three!  But that's too few in comparison to the misses and that's only as it relates to fashion, make up and surgery!  Yet, even the in the photos of her hits, she STILL looks like Bruce Jenner dressed as a woman!  Her face looks distorted and the eyes are fish out of water!!! That's what MY eyes see!!!  Can't nobody change that with policing, ridicule, links or lessons! And the comparisons to race, etc. are so way farfetched that all I can do is roll my eyes!  

And if she can't help it that she STILL looks like Bruce (it doesn't have to be in drag or like a drag queen) dressed as a woman-nope, I can't side step with it...she looks like a contestant on RuPaul's Drag Race-then maybe there wasn't enough consideration to handle the transition more privately and without the chaos/circus!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> She's Canadian and they gave her a reality show, which I watched a bit of... her voice is a giveaway. She also has no personality, like she's been consumed with not being female her whole life and never developed in any other way.
> 
> I say this because the reality show was horrible she's pretty, but that's not enough of a reason to give her a reality show.
> 
> Back to Cait and back to the topic...



Oh, I wasn't familiar with all of that. I was just going by her looks , but I agree with you. Guess anyone can get their own show these days!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mama13drama99 said:


> Get out of my thoughts!!!  Things were non-stop at the workplace today so I couldn't steal a moment to visit the forum (I'm stalking the Louboutin sale thread for updates, lol) and I'm so glad!!!  I probably would have said something to get a time out or banned.
> 
> I really stomached as much as possible when this first started.  But the mega-praise is too much.  Has she had some hits?  Okay, I'll give her two or three!  But that's too few in comparison to the misses and that's only as it relates to fashion, make up and surgery!  Yet, even the in the photos of her hits, she STILL looks like Bruce Jenner dressed as a woman!  Her face looks distorted and the eyes are fish out of water!!! That's what MY eyes see!!!  Can't nobody change that with policing, ridicule, links or lessons! And the comparisons to race, etc. are so way farfetched that all I can do is roll my eyes!
> 
> 
> And if she can't help it that she STILL looks like Bruce (it doesn't have to be in drag or like a drag queen) dressed as a woman-nope, I can't side step with it...she looks like a contestant on RuPaul's Drag Race-then maybe there wasn't enough consideration to handle the transition more privately and without the chaos/circus!



Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> It's finally dawned on me who Caitlyn reminds me of! Dr. Phil's wife Robin McGraw!




She sure does!!

And guess what?  Ain't nothing startling about her either!!! 

I also hope no one interprets your comments to mean that they look a like.  They do not.  To be clear, Robin look like a woman and Caitlyn looks like Bruce Jenner trying to be (attempting to be, transitioning to be, working to be, or any other form of the verb to be) a woman!


----------



## Hobbsy

mama13drama99 said:


> Get out of my thoughts!!!  Things were non-stop at the workplace today so I couldn't steal a moment to visit the forum (I'm stalking the Louboutin sale thread for updates, lol) and I'm so glad!!!  I probably would have said something to get a time out or banned.
> 
> I really stomached as much as possible when this first started.  But the mega-praise is too much.  Has she had some hits?  Okay, I'll give her two or three!  But that's too few in comparison to the misses and that's only as it relates to fashion, make up and surgery!  Yet, even the in the photos of her hits, she STILL looks like Bruce Jenner dressed as a woman!  Her face looks distorted and the eyes are fish out of water!!! That's what MY eyes see!!!  Can't nobody change that with policing, ridicule, links or lessons! And the comparisons to race, etc. are so way farfetched that all I can do is roll my eyes!
> 
> And if she can't help it that she STILL looks like Bruce (it doesn't have to be in drag or like a drag queen) dressed as a woman-nope, I can't side step with it...she looks like a contestant on RuPaul's Drag Race-then maybe there wasn't enough consideration to handle the transition more privately and without the chaos/circus!



Amen.


----------



## horse17

Coach Lover Too said:


> Nailed it.
> 
> If I were on a transgender support website and someone posted a picture of themselves and I thought *Jeez, that still looks like a man dressed as a woman* there is no way I would say anything out of respect for that person, BUT for the fact that this is a gossip thread (dedicated to someone that I don't trust) AND not a transgender support thread then it's a free for all as far as I'm concerned. There's no proof Jenner is a woman other than her saying so, and we know how that family and the truth are strangers.
> 
> I would think *if* there were transgender people reading here that they have enough common sense to know that the J & K families aren't very well liked and take that into consideration before taking comments personal.


----------



## horse17

Bentley1 said:


> Apparently, the only comments that are acceptable now are ones where people praise her. I've heard negative parenting comments are acceptable but all else is "not ok." So, those are the new rules that some have taken upon themselves to create for this particular thread now. Dare to make any other type of comment and you'll get an earful.



thankyou Bentley1


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Freedom of speech works both ways people. Leave you're ignorant and phobic remarks but then people can also call you out and criticize you for those comments. What's the point in leaving a comment on a message board if you can't handle people having a different opinion from you. It's childish to claim cyber bullying and cry victim because people don't agree with you. Boo hoo. This thread goes in circles


----------



## Hobbsy

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Freedom of speech works both ways people. Leave you're ignorant and phobic remarks but then people can also call you out and criticize you for those comments. What's the point in leaving a comment on a message board if you can't handle people having a different opinion from you. It's childish to claim cyber bullying and cry victim because people don't agree with you. Boo hoo. This thread goes in circles



I haven't seen any phobic comments, nor have I seen anyone crying they're a victim and no claims to cyber bullying. Do you add words into what you read? You must because I even looked back and see nothing of what you say. Childish may be saying boo hoo??! Just say'n.


----------



## riaswe

lol this article is hilarious http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...kly-clothing-and-lingerie-on-nyc-spree-201517


----------



## blackkitty4378

prettyprincess said:


> So, since a penis doesn't make you a man, a vagina doesn't make you a woman, xx/xy are irrelevant, what makes him a woman?  hes a woman simply bc he feels like hes a woman? even though he was never  female. Makes sense.



My point is that there is a lot of gray area between what defines someone's biological sex and even more gray area when it comes to defining someone's gender. Caitlyn is a transgender woman.

Calling her a man, even though she was born that way, is inaccurate. She's taking female hormones, while the typical cisgender man isn't. So even though she still has a penis, she has components of her that are typical and "natural" (using that word loosely, of course, because it's not naturally occurring for her) of a woman.


----------



## Bentley1

It's not freedom of speech when you're going around dictating what's "ok" to post and what's "not ok." That has not a thing to do with freedom of speech. 
Im sure that should be pretty clear.


----------



## Bentley1

Hobbsy said:


> I haven't seen any phobic comments, nor have I seen anyone crying they're a victim and no claims to cyber bullying. Do you add words into what you read? You must because I even looked back and see nothing of what you say. Childish may be saying boo hoo??! Just say'n.




Word


----------



## mama13drama99

See here's the thing.  Those of us who are NOT with the hero and beautiful song and dance have stated just that...our opinions by way of FoS, correct?  It's been those who are WITH the "my hero/someone's hero" and beautiful song and dance that SEEM to not only feel the need to put on a farce, but also have to respond to those of us who are not with the shenanigans!!!  

Have your FoS and purport the hero/simply gorgeous claims.  But stop trying to label those who aren't going along for the ride out to be phobic, insensitive, yada, yada, yada!  Quit preaching and ridiculing us especially when some (not all...I don't keep up enough to know what many say in the K threads) drag others for filth in other threads!  

Trust and believe I feel no cyber bullying!  It's just that many of us are tired of the pearl clutching and policing! 

This ish is so elementary it's laughable.  Now the very claim that's been argued on this side of the issue has been adopted on the other side???  We've been saying all along that we should have the freedom to resist the kool-aid.  It's the pearl clutchers who are not able to handle it!!! Coach Lover Too has taken pages of finger pointing and direct attack since this thread inception...and quite well I might add. 

SMH, it's okay for the riders and sippers to ooooh and ahhhh when Caitlyn looks like a she should be on stage in a Vegas impersonation show, but no one can post what's obvious to them???  Which by they way isn't criticizing MEMBERS here but the person who is the subject of the thread.  
And before someone chimes in with a retort, the resistors are more vocal now...simply cause y'all riders and kool-aid sippers have gotten beside y'all's self!

I'll wait...


----------



## mama13drama99

Hobbsy said:


> I haven't seen any phobic comments, nor have I seen anyone crying they're a victim and no claims to cyber bullying. Do you add words into what you read? You must because I even looked back and see nothing of what you say. Childish may be saying boo hoo??! Just say'n.




Come thru Hobbsy!


----------



## mama13drama99

Bentley1 said:


> It's not freedom of speech when you're going around dictating what's "ok" to post and what's "not ok." That has not a thing to do with freedom of speech.
> Im sure that should be pretty clear.




I'm gonna start referring to MYSELF as a pearl clutcher because I think I've started gasping at the tomfoolery that I'm reading, such as what you've pointed out!  Like really? Where they come up with this stuff and where do they think they are (as in website/app)????


----------



## horse17

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Freedom of speech works both ways people. Leave you're ignorant and phobic remarks but then people can also call you out and criticize you for those comments. What's the point in leaving a comment on a message board if you can't handle people having a different opinion from you. It's childish to claim cyber bullying and cry victim because people don't agree with you. Boo hoo. This thread goes in circles



this


----------



## prettyprincess

blackkitty4378 said:


> My point is that there is a lot of gray area between what defines someone's biological sex and even more gray area when it comes to defining someone's gender. Caitlyn is a transgender woman.
> 
> Calling her a man, even though she was born that way, is inaccurate. She's taking female hormones, while the typical cisgender man isn't. So even though she still has a penis, she has components of her that are typical and "natural" (using that word loosely, of course, because it's not naturally occurring for her) of a woman.



I don't buy it. When it suits the narrative, its genitals/hormones/genetics/ dont define gender. But bc he now has breast implants, a weave, and taking hormones he should be accepted as woman, the same as if he had been born one.


----------



## blackkitty4378

prettyprincess said:


> I don't buy it. *When it suits the narrative*, its genitals/hormones/genetics/ dont define gender. But bc he now has breast implants, a weave, and taking hormones he should be accepted as woman, the same as if he had been born one.



What narrative are you speaking of?

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I'm trying to explain to you what a transgender woman is. Yes, she was not born a woman, that's why she is called a transgender woman. There's a distinction.

If you don't accept transgender people in general, or maybe even just Caitlyn, as real or valid that's your choice. Truth is, transgender people do exist and they're out there..


----------



## AEGIS

Yoshi1296 said:


> Everyone is definitely ALLOWED to comment on her appearance (clothes, shoes, etc.) and even her face too like makeup or "omg there is a booger sticking out of her nose!" but some of the people use it as an excuse to make transphobic comments (WHICH IS NOT OKAY). Or some of them just don't realize and just accidentally make transphobic comments thinking it is just about her appearance. But I highly doubt that, yall know damn well what you guys are writing and the things are so rude it makes me so angry. I just wanna see how some of these members look since they are critiquing Caitlyn's face SO much.
> 
> *I guess some members here just don't understand that after transitioning or even during transition, you don't always look as perfect as people think, unfortunately*. It sucks but it is true. It's like the people that think buying a high end designer item means it should be PERFECT in every way. That's impossible. I am NOT saying they aren't beautiful, but the little flaws you have make you beautiful. Caitlyn still looks great imo. No one looks perfect. But Caitlyn is definitely getting close.
> 
> The main problem is that transphobic appearance comments are NOT okay but comments on material things that contributes to her appearance (outfits and makeup) are totally fine. I hope this make sense.




Nooooo....I understand it....but that doesn't mean I have to care. It's public life. You risk praise and you risk derision.







so I am free to say he needs to get more work, or that she needs to wear hemlines that are appropriate for her age. when Kris wears stuff that short she is called an old thot.  same for u bruce.


----------



## AEGIS

Coach Lover Too said:


> It's finally dawned on me who Caitlyn reminds me of! Dr. Phil's wife Robin McGraw!



omg yes!! freaky!


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Hobbsy said:


> I haven't seen any phobic comments, nor have I seen anyone crying they're a victim and no claims to cyber bullying. Do you add words into what you read? You must because I even looked back and see nothing of what you say. Childish may be saying boo hoo??! Just say'n.



A couple pages back someone said Coach was cyber bullied no she/he wasn't. I can read perfectly fine thank you very much. We seem to be reading different threads because there have been phobic remarks as others have pointed out multiple times. It's usually the ones making those remarks who "haven't seen them".


----------



## AEGIS

I mean not everyone transitions well. For example there is an ex-Marine running for Congress.  Now imagine a freaking Marine in feminine attire.  I know she's trying but it is just not a good look.  I have the right to think that she looks god awful.  I am sure she knows. Meh.


----------



## Hobbsy

ForeverYoung87 said:


> A couple pages back someone said Coach was cyber bullied no she/he wasn't. I can read perfectly fine thank you very much. We seem to be reading different threads because there have been phobic remarks as others have pointed out



I haven't read any phobic comments.  Coach was given way too much grief over her opinion.  Tomato/tomatoe.


----------



## mama13drama99

Hobbsy said:


> I haven't read any phobic comments.  Coach was given way too much grief over her opinion.  Tomato/tomatoe.




That may have been me who said that DIRECTLY TO COACH.  Wrong word choice.  But I realize "they" harp on what they want to harp on!  Something to whine about!


----------



## Hobbsy

mama13drama99 said:


> That may have been me who said that DIRECTLY TO COACH.  Wrong word choice.  But I realize "they" harp on what they want to harp on!  Something to whine about!



It's all good! Bruce doesn't care what anyone is saying, he's out shopping!


----------



## Michele26

When I look at Caitlyn all I see is Bruce with a dress on, a weave, makeup & heels.


----------



## shiny_things

Hobbsy said:


> If people think he looks like a man with a dress on that's not transphobic, that's called an opinion. Really two very different things!



It is an opinion, but it is an incredibly offensive thing to say about someone transitioning. It doesn't matter whether you think it is or not.

You (not you personally) could say something racist and not think it was, it doesn't change the fact that it is.

Do you understand why saying something like that is really offensive to the trans community and what sort of effect that can have on someone who is also transitioning?

You can say that opinion in a must less offensive way, such as 'the transition isn't going very well at the moment', for example. It's more the way people are sayinng it that's the problem. It comes across as mocking or with malice (again not directed at you personally).


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I am SO sick of political correctness.

Carry on.


----------



## horse17

coach lover too said:


> i am so sick of political correctness.
> 
> Carry on.


thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Suzie

Coach Lover Too said:


> I am SO sick of political correctness.
> 
> Carry on.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

horse17 said:


> thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




You too huh??


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Suzie said:


>


----------



## horse17

Coach Lover Too said:


> You too huh??


yes..its out of control


----------



## Suzie

The Jenner's, Kardashians and the transgender person, well, they are the gift that just keeps on giving!

Sorry, what about that sparkly mini skirt number that he/she (not sure what is PC to say) is wearing, please, it is tragic on so many levels, and we thought that Kris dressed badly!


----------



## blackkitty4378

Just like I said when people were calling Kourtney's kids "feral"... I hope you show more grace to people in real life. That's all. If not, that's your right, I guess. I don't know why anyone would choose to pick out the flaws in someone 24/7. Sometimes it's well deserved, but it feels good (for me) to be positive once in a while.

I still think Caitlyn slays and she's a hero to me and I'm not even transgender. I just don't feel the need to critique her looks... Idk because I don't care. And I just feel like have realistic expectations about the transition. I side very much by what Jon Stewart said about this whole thing.


----------



## lizmil

^ agree with you that Jon Stewart was spot on. To summarize. As Bruce, the discussion centered around accomplishments, character, etc. Physical appearance was a side note. As Caitlyn physical appearance and what Stewart called F*ability took center stage. And THAT transition was immediate. That's scary.


----------



## nycmom

So just to confirm...political correctness = trying to be considerate and respectful of others? I'm all for critiquing clothing styles, poor parenting choices, etc but certain posters seem determined to continue to use labels they have been told are offensive and hurtful to an entire community, some of whom must be reading this thread. It's not about censorship, just common courtesy.


----------



## Glitterandstuds

All I know is that home girl loves her some attention!


----------



## Hobbsy

shiny_things said:


> It is an opinion, but it is an incredibly offensive thing to say about someone transitioning. It doesn't matter whether you think it is or not.
> 
> You (not you personally) could say something racist and not think it was, it doesn't change the fact that it is.
> 
> Do you understand why saying something like that is really offensive to the trans community and what sort of effect that can have on someone who is also transitioning?
> 
> You can say that opinion in a must less offensive way, such as 'the transition isn't going very well at the moment', for example. It's more the way people are sayinng it that's the problem. It comes across as mocking or with malice (again not directed at you personally).



And it's your opinion that it's offensive.


----------



## minimom

nycmom said:


> So just to confirm...political correctness = trying to be considerate and respectful of others? I'm all for critiquing clothing styles, poor parenting choices, etc but certain posters seem determined to continue to use labels they have been told are offensive and hurtful to an entire community, some of whom must be reading this thread. It's not about censorship, just common courtesy.


Lack of kindness and consideration = political correctness?   I thought it was just good manners.        My mother and I just had this conversation that people will now say or type anything on the web that they would never say to someone's face.    I think Caitlyn looks fine and looks much happier.  Seems so demeaning and frankly, not one person is perfect.    I can critique a clothing choice, but not features, weight, etc.   Just not cool, IMO.


----------



## AEGIS

lizmil said:


> ^ agree with you that Jon Stewart was spot on. To summarize. As Bruce, the discussion centered around accomplishments, character, etc. Physical appearance was a side note. As Caitlyn physical appearance and what Stewart called F*ability took center stage. And THAT transition was immediate. That's scary.



yea and no.  there has been attention to Bruce's looks for decades bc he kept playing with his face.  but i do recognize that women are more harshly judged than men for their appearance.  it is what it is, so i am not about to suddenly change for caitlyn. 

and let's be honest, apperance is a big part of transitioning for most. so why the hell is it bad to comment on his apperance? it's contradictory.


----------



## Hobbsy

He looks happy and that's the most important thing.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

OMG Where's that beating a dead horse smilie when you need one?


----------



## blackkitty4378

I think that "political correctness" is a good thing. I don't even think that it should be called that... It should be caused decency and respect. Any minority group that's struggling for equal rights deserves all it can get... There's people in real life that will openly discriminate against them, some will harass them, others will kill them. Something to keep it mind.


----------



## Suzie

Let's be honest here, that whole family has really whored themselves out for a very long time so everything is pretty fair game. They chose to put themselves out in the public eye and profit from it.


----------



## Nathalya

Ufff this thread


----------



## Wildflower22

lizmil said:


> ^ agree with you that Jon Stewart was spot on. To summarize. As Bruce, the discussion centered around accomplishments, character, etc. Physical appearance was a side note. As Caitlyn physical appearance and what Stewart called F*ability took center stage. And THAT transition was immediate. That's scary.



I think this is very typical for females in general. However in Caitlyn's case, she introduced herself to the world by posing half naked on a magazine cover. She entered the world by defining herself as a sex symbol. She put her own physical appearance center stage first!


----------



## CeeJay

I've been reading through this thread and all I can say is WOW; talk about going around in circles.  I was almost hesitant to comment, but it almost does appear as though .. maybe this thread should be closed because there will never be any resolution on people's feelings.  It's like having a discussion on religion/culture and theology; people are always going to have different perspectives .. and that doesn't mean that their comment is necessarily un-PC.  

Sometimes you just need to ignore what you don't agree with; I know that might be difficult for some, but after all .. this is a "gossip" thread not like you are running for Political Office which requires one to take a stand.  JMO ..


----------



## Laila619

Michele26 said:


> When I look at Caitlyn all I see is Bruce with a dress on, a weave, makeup & heels.



Yep.

The Emperor has no clothes.


----------



## blackkitty4378

So being a decent human being towards an individual or a group, showing respect, and standing up for what you think is right means you're running for office? Lol what a lovely view to have of people.

Yes, gossip thread. People have the right to say whatever they want and other people have the right to challenge it!


----------



## Jayne1

shiny_things said:


> You can say that opinion in a must less offensive way, such as* 'the transition isn't going very well at the moment', *for example. It's more the way people are sayinng it that's the problem.


That's a horrid thing to say, IMO.

You must come up with something more subtle to negatively describe what people want to say and let us know what is acceptable&#8230; although I do think Cait looks very female, as she should.  She spent a fortune on looking so.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I think it should be the other way around. Maybe if you're the one who feels uneasy having your belief or opinion challenged... Maybe that's a sign you should modify or change your beliefs. Not saying you have to, but if you can't stick by it, feel comfortable with people criticizing it, maybe you should take that as a sign that you should reevaluate it. If you truly stood by it and believed it, someone challenging it wouldn't bother you so much. And what's wrong with changing the way you view things? Do people just want to be right? Is it being stubborn, or what?

So basically anti-PC people believe that people are allowed to have whatever opinion they want, but other people aren't allowed have an opinion about those opinions? I don't understand.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

minimom said:


> Lack of kindness and consideration = political correctness?   I thought it was just good manners.        My mother and I just had this conversation that people will now say or type anything on the web that they would never say to someone's face.    I think Caitlyn looks fine and looks much happier.  Seems so demeaning and frankly, not one person is perfect.    I can critique a clothing choice, but not features, weight, etc.   Just not cool, IMO.



when people here say  "i wouldn't say it to their face" or "I wouldn't leave these comments if this were a trans support group" they're pretty much acknowledging their comments are tacky and unneccessary. Would the "this is a gossip board" excuse work of people were saying racist or homophobic things?


----------



## tweegy

CeeJay said:


> I've been reading through this thread and all I can say is WOW; talk about going around in circles.  I was almost hesitant to comment, but it almost does appear as though .. maybe this thread should be closed because there will never be any resolution on people's feelings.  It's like having a discussion on religion/culture and theology; people are always going to have different perspectives .. and that doesn't mean that their comment is necessarily un-PC.
> 
> Sometimes you just need to ignore what you don't agree with; I know that might be difficult for some, but after all .. this is a "gossip" thread not like you are running for Political Office which requires one to take a stand.  JMO ..



Closing the thread won't solve anything... Jus sayin.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Nathalya said:


> Ufff this thread


 
giving me a headache..


Because some of ya'll call Khloe a man, but get all bent out of shape when someone calls Caitlyn a man or a man dressed as a woman


----------



## CeeJay

blackkitty4378 said:


> I think it should be the other way around. *Maybe if you're the one who feels uneasy having your belief or opinion challenged.*.. *Maybe that's a sign you should modify or change your beliefs*. Not saying you have to, but if you can't stick by it, feel comfortable with people criticizing it, maybe you should take that as a sign that you should reevaluate it. If you truly stood by it and believed it, someone challenging it wouldn't bother you so much. And what's wrong with changing the way you view things? Do people just want to be right? Is it being stubborn, or what?
> 
> So basically anti-PC people believe that people are allowed to have whatever opinion they want, but other people aren't allowed have an opinion about those opinions? I don't understand.



You just proved my point.  


Did I say I felt uneasy?  

Did I say that I had been bothered?  
Did I say that I had been criticized?  

Look, I agree that people need to have an open mind and I'm all about learning, whether it be new cultures, different religions or even gender equality.  To reiterate, what I said was that IN THIS FORUM, is it really necessary for anyone to determine who is "right" or "wrong"?  The reason why we have wars, is oftentimes because of a difference in opinion/theology, etc. -- why waste your time trying so hard to change one's belief/opinion (whatever you want to call it) in a gossip forum???

On that note, kinda sorry I decided to get into this thread, so ciao!


----------



## tweegy

CeeJay said:


> why waste your time trying so hard to change one's belief/opinion (whatever you want to call it) in a gossip forum???



Done! 

(Sorry to interject in your conv but that's all there is to it )


----------



## blackkitty4378

CeeJay said:


> You just proved my point.
> 
> 
> Did I say I felt uneasy?
> 
> Did I say that I had been bothered?
> Did I say that I had been criticized?
> 
> Look, I agree that people need to have an open mind and I'm all about learning, whether it be new cultures, different religions or even gender equality.  To reiterate, what I said was that IN THIS FORUM, is it really necessary for anyone to determine who is "right" or "wrong"?  The reason why we have wars, is oftentimes because of a difference in opinion/theology, etc. -- why waste your time trying so hard to change one's belief/opinion (whatever you want to call it) in a gossip forum???
> 
> On that note, kinda sorry I decided to get into this thread, so ciao!



What I said was a blanket statement for what I've seen on this thread, regarding the whole "it's my opinion and you're wrong for challenging it or poking holes in its logic" thing that's going on here.

The only thing that I said towards your comment is the concept that people standing up for what they believe in are running for office. I feel like that's an exaggeration, and if you feel that the only people who stand up for something are doing it for political gain, or to manipulate others then that's kind of sad.

And why try to change people's mind in a gossip forum. Well, idk, I like to have discussions about things, and I actually like reading people's views on things even when they differ to mine, when they're something of substance and more evolved than "That's just my opinion because... that's my opinion."


----------



## Hobbsy

Lol....I would watch out for anyone who has an opinion because that's their opinion. Lord this has to be the funniest thread on this forum


----------



## nycmom

DC-Cutie said:


> giving me a headache..
> 
> 
> Because some of ya'll call Khloe a man, but get all bent out of shape when someone calls Caitlyn a man or a man dressed as a woman



And some of us have never criticized anyone's appearance in any of these threads (please feel free to check my posts since 2006) and have the right to express our opinion when disrespectful language to an entire group of people is being used. Just like I would call out anyone anywhere for offensive racial or religious or ethnic comments...I make no apologies  for that and I defend my right to do so.


----------



## DC-Cutie

nycmom said:


> And some of us have never criticized anyone's appearance in any of these threads (please feel free to check my posts since 2006) and have the right to express our opinion when disrespectful language to an entire group of people is being used. Just like I would call out anyone anywhere for offensive racial or religious or ethnic comments...I make no apologies  for that and I defend my right to do so.


 
did I say ya'll didn't have the right?  nope, sure didn't.


My point is - people on this forum get too friggin' sensitive and try to police others comments.   comments/thoughts are welcome, because its a FORUM


----------



## CeeJay

dc-cutie said:


> did i say ya'll didn't have the right?  Nope, sure didn't.
> 
> 
> My point is - people on this forum get too friggin' sensitive and try to police others comments.   Comments/thoughts are welcome, because its a forum



amen!!!


----------



## Michele26

Coach Lover Too said:


> I am SO sick of political correctness.
> 
> Carry on.




It's getting worse too.[emoji6]


----------



## nycmom

I can see this is going nowhere (or worse) so I'll end with this...if it was brought to my attention  that something I said or wrote was hurtful to others I'd like to think my response would be to apologize and educate myself instead of complaining about other people being too sensitive. And with that I'm out!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Need two threads that can accommodate all posts about Caitlyn, one  candid other conscientious and not have to bump into each other. 

Hate to think some people only post solely to correct members. Either way.


----------



## Swanky

Ok, back to topic please. News, pics, etc.....?


----------



## guccimamma

i'm still getting over the name choice of caitlyn.


----------



## bag-mania

guccimamma said:


> i'm still getting over the name choice of caitlyn.



I wondered about that too. But I guess if you are already inventing a whole new persona for yourself you might as well go all the way and make it a much younger one.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> i'm still getting over the name choice of caitlyn.



Me too, given the fact it's my DIL's name. Of ALL the names he coulda picked it had to be the name of one of my favorite people. I'ma call her by her middle name now. lol


----------



## pittcat

Lol she took my name but thank goodness there are multiple ways to spell it! Someone at work asked when all this news broke was I having a rough week hahhaa no didn't give it a second thought! I was actually more worried about the dog named Caitlyn from Charleston, SC that had its muzzle bound by electrical tape and left tied outside! Thankfully she was rescued and is now in good shape recovering, lol I'm only in this thread because that little dog doesn't have one!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

minimom said:


> *Lack of kindness and consideration = political correctness?*   I thought it was just good manners.        My mother and I just had this conversation that people will now say or type anything on the web that they would never say to someone's face.    I think Caitlyn looks fine and looks much happier.  Seems so demeaning and frankly, not one person is perfect.    I can critique a clothing choice, but not features, weight, etc.   Just not cool, IMO.



No, having to watch every.single.thing.you.say. because there may be one person that get's butt hurt over something is my definition of political correctness. The whole thing has gotten completely out of control. If Bruce/Caitlyn didn't want to be judged on his/her appearance and choices, maybe he/she should have thought of that before signing onto a *reality* show. Pretty much comes with the territory when you're getting paid millions of dollars to live your life on television. IMO too.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

pittcat said:


> Lol she took my name but thank goodness there are multiple ways to spell it! Someone at work asked when all this news broke was I having a rough week hahhaa no didn't give it a second thought! I was actually more worried about the dog named Caitlyn from Charleston, SC that had its muzzle bound by electrical tape and left tied outside! Thankfully she was rescued and is now in good shape recovering, lol I'm only in this thread because that little dog doesn't have one!



Oh I saw that too!! That was heartbreaking!  (My DIL spells hers different too and I'm not even sure she's aware of the drama because she doesn't Keep up with the Kardashians)


----------



## Jayne1

guccimamma said:


> i'm still getting over the name choice of caitlyn.


Yes, a K sounding name, but spelled with a C I see what you did there, Cait!


----------



## StopHammertime

nycmom said:


> I can see this is going nowhere (or worse) so I'll end with this...if it was brought to my attention  that something I said or wrote was hurtful to others I'd like to think my response would be to apologize and educate myself instead of complaining about other people being too sensitive. And with that I'm out!




Meh, when I have a difference of opinion with someone and realize neither of us are going to change our minds I just agree to disagree, and that's the end of the story. No use trying to change someone's mind when they very staunchly have it made up [I know this because once I have all the facts and make a decision it is 99% of the time unchangeable]. I don't even  CARE about other people's opposite opinion, unless it is [physically] hurting someone.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Not sure where to post this, but although he's easy on the eyes, I had no clue he too was getting his own reality show. Pretty soon the *E* Network will be called J/K!

*Brody Jenner*     &#8207;@*BrodyJenner*  12m12 minutes ago                                                   Brody Jenner retweeted Bex Harrison
   Thanks @*harrison4d* for the support.  Now only 8 days away til #*sexwithbrody* premiers on E! at 10:30pm.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Not sure where to post this, but although he's easy on the eyes, I had no clue he too was getting his own reality show. Pretty soon the *E* Network will be called J/K!
> 
> *Brody Jenner*     &#8207;@*BrodyJenner*  12m12 minutes ago                                                   Brody Jenner retweeted Bex Harrison
> Thanks @*harrison4d* for the support.  Now only 8 days away til #*sexwithbrody* premiers on E! at 10:30pm.



I made the exact same facial expression in your avatar when I read "sexwithbrody".....


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> I made the exact same facial expression in your avatar when I read "sexwithbrody".....




I need a heart pill.


----------



## StopHammertime

Coach Lover Too said:


> Not sure where to post this, but although he's easy on the eyes, I had no clue he too was getting his own reality show. Pretty soon the *E* Network will be called J/K!
> 
> *Brody Jenner*     &#8207;@*BrodyJenner*  12m12 minutes ago                                                   Brody Jenner retweeted Bex Harrison
> Thanks @*harrison4d* for the support.  Now only 8 days away til #*sexwithbrody* premiers on E! at 10:30pm.




I think he used to be on another reality show... Can't remember the name, never watched. With Lauren Conrad. Not surprised he would try to get his own show! He is pretty cute, but that title is [emoji15]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

StopHammertime said:


> I think he used to be on another reality show... Can't remember the name, never watched. With Lauren Conrad. Not surprised he would try to get his own show! He is pretty cute, but that title is [emoji15]



Oh I think I remember that. Something about the Hills. 
Yea, that title leaves a lot to be desired!


----------



## DC-Cutie

StopHammertime said:


> I think he used to be on another reality show... Can't remember the name, never watched. With Lauren Conrad. Not surprised he would try to get his own show! He is pretty cute, but that title is [emoji15]


 
It was 'the hills', but that wasn't his first dip in reality show, he was also on Princes of Malibu when his mom was married to David Foster


----------



## simone72

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh I think I remember that. Something about the Hills.
> Yea, that title leaves a lot to be desired!


Yes and He was also in The Kings of Malibu reality show with David Foster and his his mother Linda Thompson who had been married to Bruce.
Sorry DC cutie we must have posted at the same time


----------



## horse17

dc-cutie said:


> did i say ya'll didn't have the right?  Nope, sure didn't.
> 
> 
> My point is - people on this forum get too friggin' sensitive and try to police others comments.   Comments/thoughts are welcome, because its a forum


+1


----------



## addisonshopper

Coach Lover Too said:


> No, having to watch every.single.thing.you.say. because there may be one person that get's butt hurt over something is my definition of political correctness. The whole thing has gotten completely out of control. If Bruce/Caitlyn didn't want to be judged on his/her appearance and choices, maybe he/she should have thought of that before signing onto a *reality* show. Pretty much comes with the territory when you're getting paid millions of dollars to live your life on television. IMO too.



THIS...
Its getting to be to much...I respect everyone BUT we all have a right to our opinions and beliefs... People are getting shamed to hell and blasted for their religious beliefs and right to choice.... I am sorry freedom of speech for all...
Sorry certain things in life you can not and should not be able to change.. Race, ethnicity, gender and your family.. We got to play the card we dealt... In no means am I bashing anyones LIFESTYLE CHOICES or how they live.. I have an opinion that is all.


----------



## Lounorada

DC-Cutie said:


> giving me a headache..
> Because some of ya'll call Khloe a man, but get all bent out of shape when someone calls Caitlyn a man or a man dressed as a woman


 


CeeJay said:


> *Look, I agree that people need to have an open mind and I'm all about learning, whether it be new cultures, different religions or even gender equality*. * To reiterate, what I said was that IN THIS FORUM, is it really necessary for anyone to determine who is "right" or "wrong"?* * The reason why we have wars, is oftentimes because of a difference in opinion/theology, etc. -- why waste your time trying so hard to change one's belief/opinion (whatever you want to call it) in a gossip forum??? *


 


DC-Cutie said:


> My point is - people on this forum get too friggin' sensitive and try to police others comments.   comments/thoughts are welcome, because its a FORUM


 


+1 All.Of.This
I usually avoid this thread, but I had to comment and agree with you ladies. Well said.




CeeJay said:


> *Sometimes you just need to ignore what you don't agree with*; I know that might be difficult for some, but after all .. this is a "gossip" thread not like you are running for Political Office which requires one to take a stand.  JMO ..


 

YES! My thoughts exactly! I see plenty of comments I don't agree with throughout the forum, but 95% of the time I'll just roll my eyes and keep on scrolling


----------



## knasarae

Coach Lover Too said:


> Not sure where to post this, but although he's easy on the eyes, I had no clue he too was getting his own reality show. Pretty soon the *E* Network will be called J/K!
> 
> *Brody Jenner*     &#8207;@*BrodyJenner*  12m12 minutes ago                                                   Brody Jenner retweeted Bex Harrison
> Thanks @*harrison4d* for the support.  Now only 8 days away til #*sexwithbrody* premiers on E! at 10:30pm.



Someone please explain #sexwithbrody


----------



## shiny_things

OK, I get that some of you aren't going to agree with me and that's fine. We are free to our opinions and freedom of speech. I don't want to tell anyone what they can and cannot say, all I wanted to do was make people aware that they were often making very offensive bordering on transphobic comments. I'm not going to mention my dislike of making offensive/transphobic comments anymore (unless someone says something REALLY horrendous), I think I've made that quite clear. All I would like is that if people could at least accept that they are making offensive or transphobic comments sometimes because I guarantee if a member of the Trans community read some of what is said, they WOULD be offended. As someone on here made the great point: if you wouldn't say it to the Trans community, then you KNOW it's offensive.

Having and voicing an offensive opinion is fine, but own it and accept it's offensive to the person/community you're criticising rather than denying it's offensive, because it isn't too YOU personally. But also accept that if you're going to express that opinion, as is your right, you may be called on it and you can't whine about that.

I like this forum and a lot of the posters make me laugh so much and I adore the often witty critiques on here and I would never want to lose that.

So, moving on....


----------



## Hobbsy

shiny_things said:


> OK, I get that some of you aren't going to agree with me and that's fine. We are free to our opinions and freedom of speech. I don't want to tell anyone what they can and cannot say, all I wanted to do was make people aware that they were often making very offensive bordering on transphobic comments. I'm not going to mention my dislike of making offensive/transphobic comments anymore (unless someone says something REALLY horrendous), I think I've made that quite clear. All I would like is that if people could at least accept that they are making offensive or transphobic comments sometimes because I guarantee if a member of the Trans community read some of what is said, they WOULD be offended. As someone on here made the great point: if you wouldn't say it to the Trans community, then you KNOW it's offensive.
> 
> Having and voicing an offensive opinion is fine, but own it and accept it's offensive to the person/community you're criticising rather than denying it's offensive, because it isn't too YOU personally. But also accept that if you're going to express that opinion, as is your right, you may be called on it and you can't whine about that.
> 
> I like this forum and a lot of the posters make me laugh so much and I adore the often witty critiques on here and I would never want to lose that.
> 
> So, moving on....



But you don't get it. You feel transphobic remarks have been made. Others dont. But you insist that you're opinion is correct. You need to move on without saying ok....I'm right, you're wrong, let's move on. Lol.....just move on.


----------



## tweegy

knasarae said:


> Someone please explain #sexwithbrody




[emoji52]


----------



## littlerock

Hobbsy said:


> First of all, Bruce is a man.....I didn't fail anatomy class. He might not feel like a man or identify as one, but he is. Second, I could care less if he's a man or a woman, I think he should do what he wants. Third, he looks like a man dressed as a woman and right now that's what he us and the way it is.



The saying is "I couldn't care less".. just thought maybe you'd want to know.


----------



## Hobbsy

littlerock said:


> The saying is "I couldn't care less".. just thought maybe you'd want to know.



No, I could care less!


----------



## Hobbsy

Bruce walking on the wild side!  Care free!


----------



## littlerock

Hobbsy said:


> No, I could care less!



Ok.


----------



## sdkitty

I don't mind if he wants to be transgender and I understand a lot of people feel that by going so public with it, he's helping the trans community.  But its starting to feel like he's doing a lot of attention-seeking - basically I guess what others have said - too much like the Kardashians.


----------



## krissa

sdkitty said:


> I don't mind if he wants to be transgender and I understand a lot of people feel that by going so public with it, he's helping the trans community.  But its starting to feel like he's doing a lot of attention-seeking - basically I guess what others have said - too much like the Kardashians.



I hope he gets back to the motivational speaking and not just fameho strolling like the other Ks. I hope that wasn't just a thing only Bruce did.


----------



## shiny_things

krissa said:


> I hope he gets back to the motivational speaking and not just fameho strolling like the other Ks. I hope that wasn't just a thing only Bruce did.



I hope so too. That's a life that has so much potential to do something worthwhile like motivational speaking or working with people. It would be a shame to waste it all on famewhoring.


----------



## V0N1B2

This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.  
This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.

Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.

If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking against the entire Black/African-American population?

Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?


----------



## labelwhore04

I'm quite surprised that Caitlyns style is not more sporty. I really thought that it would be more laid back, but her style seems to be full on Kardashian.


----------



## Jayne1

krissa said:


> I hope he gets back to the motivational speaking and not just fameho strolling like the other Ks. I hope that wasn't just a thing only Bruce did.



Motivational speaking is a bit meaningless, to me.  Her TV show will do enough motivational speaking for that.

I hope she donates some of her huge earnings to the Trans community and to the people who do not have enough money to even get their adam's apple shaved. Or buy a decent weave, never-mind all that female facial surgery.

And I don't mean doing a Diddy thing by asking everyone else to donate&#8230; I want Cait to show us how much she cares about others by using her own cash.


----------



## bisousx

Yea, I'm a little disappointed by the leopard and the sequined skirt after seeing her look fab in black dresses.  Imo animal prints are tacky as hell.


----------



## redney

V0N1B2 said:


> This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.
> This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
> People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
> People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
> Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
> There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.
> 
> Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.
> 
> If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking for the entire Black/African-American population?
> 
> Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
> Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?



All of this. Bravo V0N!


----------



## Hobbsy

redney said:


> All of this. Bravo V0N!



Ex freaking zactly!!


----------



## shiny_things

labelwhore04 said:


> I'm quite surprised that Caitlyns style is not more sporty. I really thought that it would be more laid back, but her style seems to be full on Kardashian.



Maybe it will become more casual as time goes on. If she's finally living as herself after all these years, she's probably going to want to go all out at first. I guess I would if I were in the same situation.


----------



## Jayne1

labelwhore04 said:


> I'm quite surprised that Caitlyns style is not more sporty. I really thought that it would be more laid back, but her style seems to be full on Kardashian.


I guess we shouldn't be surprised, because in all her interviews, she only talked about makeup, painting her toe nails and buying dresses and heels.


----------



## AshTx.1

labelwhore04 said:


> I'm quite surprised that Caitlyns style is not more sporty. I really thought that it would be more laid back, but her style seems to be full on Kardashian.



Me too!


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

littlerock said:


> The saying is "I couldn't care less".. just thought maybe you'd want to know.







Hobbsy said:


> No, I could care less!



But meaning wise it does not make sense: you mean that you are able to care less or could not care less?


----------



## redney

Jayne1 said:


> I guess we shouldn't be surprised, because in all her interviews, she only talked about makeup, painting her toe nails and buying dresses and heels.



I'm not surprised. After appearing in public in men's clothing and grooming her entire life, she may finally feel free to express her sense of femininity.


----------



## Hobbsy

Babydoll Chanel said:


> But meaning wise it does not make sense: you mean that you are able to care less or could not care less?



Yes! &#128521;


----------



## dangerouscurves

littlerock said:


> The saying is "I couldn't care less".. just thought maybe you'd want to know.




Lol! I wrote the same but my whole post was deleted. I can't stand it when people make this mistake!!!!


----------



## Hobbsy

dangerouscurves said:


> Lol! I wrote the same but my whole post was deleted. I can't stand it when people make this mistake!!!!



Drives me crazy! &#128562;


----------



## dangerouscurves

Babydoll Chanel said:


> But meaning wise it does not make sense: you mean that you are able to care less or could not care less?




Girl!!! SMGDH [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Hobbsy

dangerouscurves said:


> girl!!! Smgdh [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



&#128514;&#128517;&#128514;


----------



## MJDaisy

Hobbsy said:


> Bruce walking on the wild side!  Care free!




Love the dress. She looks good and she knows it. I also think she looks much happier. It must be a relief to live the way you please


----------



## Hobbsy

MJDaisy said:


> Love the dress. She looks good and she knows it. I also think she looks much happier. It must be a relief to live the way you please



Looks happy!!


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

dangerouscurves said:


> Girl!!! SMGDH [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



What? It's 'I could not care less.' Not 'I could care less.' Think about it, which makes more sense when you say it?


----------



## dangerouscurves

Babydoll Chanel said:


> What? It's 'I could not care less.' Not 'I could care less.' Think about it, which makes more sense when you say it?




Lol!!! The SMGDH was not directed to your  post [emoji12]. I've only known I could not care less all my life [emoji4]


----------



## Hobbsy

dangerouscurves said:


> Lol!!! The SMGDH was not directed to your  post [emoji12]. I've only known I could not care less all my life [emoji4]



Look it up. It works both ways! You learned something new today. &#9786;


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

dangerouscurves said:


> Lol!!! The SMGDH was not on your post [emoji12]. I've only known I could not care less all my life [emoji4]



Aah I see, phew 

But the poster laughed along with you, so I thought you meant the other incorrect one was correct, lol.


----------



## Hobbsy

Babydoll Chanel said:


> Aah I see, phew
> 
> But the poster laughed along with you, so I thought you meant the other incorrect one was correct, lol.



They're both correct actually. Look it up. &#9786;


----------



## dangerouscurves

Hobbsy said:


> They're both correct actually. Look it up. [emoji5]




Nope. I couldn't care less is still the right and proper one. I did check it [emoji4]


----------



## dangerouscurves

http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/g09.html


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

dangerouscurves said:


> Nope. I couldn't care less is still the right and proper one. I did check it [emoji4]



Me too! I'm doing a doctorate in linguistics and grammar is part of my research.


----------



## Hobbsy

You're both wrong then!


----------



## mama13drama99

redney said:


> All of this. Bravo V0N!







Hobbsy said:


> Ex freaking zactly!!




That was one of, if not, the BEST post I've seen here!!!


----------



## Hobbsy

mama13drama99 said:


> that was one of, if not, the best post i've seen here!!!



&#128077;&#128077;&#128077; I agree!


----------



## Chloe_chick999

Hobbsy said:


> &#128077;&#128077;&#128077; I agree!



Save me a seat on the "I agree" bus!


----------



## Hobbsy

Chloe_chick999 said:


> Save me a seat on the "I agree" bus!



Done deal!! &#128653;&#128653;&#128653;


----------



## kittenslingerie

V0N1B2 said:


> This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.
> This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
> People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
> People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
> Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
> There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.
> 
> Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.
> 
> If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking against the entire Black/African-American population?
> 
> Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
> Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?



Amen! Agree completely.


----------



## daffyduck

labelwhore04 said:


> I'm quite surprised that Caitlyns style is not more sporty. I really thought that it would be more laid back, but her style seems to be full on Kardashian.



I say her style is much more CLASSIER than the Kardashian clan. She's not showing or purposely displaying her T&A, well at least, not yet anyway.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

V0N1B2 said:


> This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.
> This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
> People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
> People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
> Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
> There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.
> 
> Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.
> 
> If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking against the entire Black/African-American population?
> 
> Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
> Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?



You took the words right outta my mouth!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Babydoll Chanel said:


> What? It's 'I could not care less.' Not 'I could care less.' Think about it, which makes more sense when you say it?



Well, I could care less, but I don't.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well, I could care less, but I don't.



Lol.....I'm right there with ya!


----------



## beekmanhill

Babydoll Chanel said:


> Me too! I'm doing a doctorate in linguistics and grammar is part of my research.



http://mentalfloss.com/article/55388/4-good-reasons-why-people-say-i-could-care-less


----------



## Lounorada

V0N1B2 said:


> This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.
> This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
> People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
> People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
> Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
> There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.
> 
> Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.
> 
> If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking against the entire Black/African-American population?
> 
> Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
> Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?



I agree, well said.


----------



## Hobbsy

beekmanhill said:


> http://mentalfloss.com/article/55388/4-good-reasons-why-people-say-i-could-care-less



Yes! &#128522;


----------



## tweegy

V0N1B2 said:


> This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.
> This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
> People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
> People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
> Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
> There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.
> 
> Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.
> 
> If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking against the entire Black/African-American population?
> 
> Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
> Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?




I vote for this to be the thread intro


----------



## VickyB

V0N1B2 said:


> This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.
> This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
> People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
> People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
> Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
> There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.
> 
> Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.
> 
> If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking against the entire Black/African-American population?
> 
> Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
> Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?



Well said!!!!!!!!


----------



## VickyB

Jayne1 said:


> Motivational speaking is a bit meaningless, to me.  Her TV show will do enough motivational speaking for that.
> 
> I hope she donates some of her huge earnings to the Trans community and to the people who do not have enough money to even get their adam's apple shaved. Or buy a decent weave, never-mind all that female facial surgery.
> 
> And I don't mean doing a Diddy thing by asking everyone else to donate I want Cait to show us how much she cares about others by using her own cash.




Don't hold your breath. She's now walking the path of the Kardashians and we all no how many millions they've donated to worthy groups.


----------



## Encore Hermes

This is Caitlyn Jenner's thread. 
This is not The Trans Community's thread.




tweegy said:


> I vote for this to be the thread intro



+1


----------



## VickyB

Jayne1 said:


> I guess we shouldn't be surprised, because in all her interviews, she only talked about makeup, painting her toe nails and buying dresses and heels.



That's a very good point. I've yet to hear any meaningful comments from her re emotionally what it means to her to be a woman now that she has openly identified as one.  Clothing, hair, looks are  the superficial aspects not the essence of womanhood. What's emotionally changed for her? I've seen things where she's said she's more fun and freer and could be a better parent now but those are really general statements. Granted, I don't follow everything out there on her so if I've missed the important stuff , pls , anybody, point me in the right direction. TIA!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> This is Caitlyn Jenner's thread.
> This is not The Trans Community's thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1


----------



## VickyB

daffyduck said:


> I say her style is much more CLASSIER than the Kardashian clan. She's not showing or purposely displaying her T&A, well at least, not yet anyway.



I agree but for the V F cover.


----------



## ByeKitty

I haven't followed the thread recently, and I of course agree that this thread should be specifically about Caitlyn Jenner. But right after the transition the discussion kind of veered towards the topic of transgenderness in general. That's only natural, no?


----------



## guccimamma

as i stood behind a transgender woman at ikea today, i realized it was her legs that gave her away.


----------



## Florasun

V0N1B2 said:


> This is *Caitlyn Jenner*'s thread.
> This is not *The Trans Community*'s thread.
> People in THIS thread are writing and posting about CAITLYN JENNER. No one else.  I have not seen anyone write anything about how trans people are disgusting and they are offensive as a community, and it is wrong to be transgendered, and OMG like gross.
> People do not like Caitlyn Jenner AS A PERSON.
> Please quote all the posts in here written by members who have stated that Transgendered persons are offensive.
> There have been positive posts about Laverne Cox.  I have yet so see anyone comment on Caitlyn's new BFF, Candis Cayne, but I can't imagine it would be anything but positive.
> 
> Why are people having a hard time differentiating between Caitlyn Jenner and the Trans Community?  If y'all want to start a Transgendered Appreciation thread, I will gladly post up some positive ish in there.  We can post photos of Candis, Laverne, Chaz Bono, Alexis Arquette.... and I'm sure everyone will have nothing but good things to say.  However, until the name of this thread changes from Caitlyn Jenner, people will discuss Caitlyn Jenner and her transformation, her shoes, her skin, her need for a bodyguard, the photoshop on her Vanity Fair cover and everything else that everyone else talks about in ever other celebrity thread here at TPF.
> 
> If I post about Blac Chyna's horrible weave/lace front, the size of her arse, her horrible taste in clothing and men, and the fact that I think she looks trashy, etc. is this a slam on the Black Community?  Are people able to understand that I think SHE embodies these descriptors or do people think that I am speaking against the entire Black/African-American population?
> 
> Anyway, getting back to Miss-DVF wearing-grrr-rawr-Sassy-Pants...
> Is she still playing golf?  Is she still drinking Bucky's?  Why doesn't she wear sunglasses?



Great post.
While our criticism of Cait is sometimes brutal, I don't think it is worse than what we have dished out to the rest of the Kardashian Klan. I would be shocked if anybody here is actually anti trans.
But I can see where some might think that our cavalier attitude towards Cait means we are unconcerned about the overall treatment of a minority that is often the target of violence and hate, and our Cait-bashing may seem like we are giving a green-light to declare open season on the trans community, hence the overzealous policing of comments. (Sorry for the run-on sentence.)


----------



## LadyLouboutin08

I don't have much of an opinion on Caitlyn either way.  I'm just happy she finally is able to be herself and seems to be comfortable in her skin, everyone deserves to feel that way. 

I have to say I don't understand the question over her name choice. People are saying it's a "young" name but eventually all the little girls named Caitlyn will be old ladies named Caitlyn so what difference does it make.  Should she have chosen Mary or Gertrude instead, lol?


----------



## Florasun

labelwhore04 said:


> I'm quite surprised that Caitlyns style is not more sporty. I really thought that it would be more laid back, but her style seems to be full on Kardashian.





bisousx said:


> Yea, I'm a little disappointed by the leopard and the sequined skirt after seeing her look fab in black dresses.  Imo animal prints are tacky as hell.





shiny_things said:


> Maybe it will become more casual as time goes on. If she's finally living as herself after all these years, she's probably going to want to go all out at first. I guess I would if I were in the same situation.



I think she is probably going to go through a stage where she experiments with many styles before she finds her 'look'.
I wonder if she has a stylist.


----------



## Oryx816

dangerouscurves said:


> Nope. I couldn't care less is still the right and proper one. I did check it [emoji4]




Argh!  This is one of my pet peeves!  I could care less implies that some "care" still exists on a subject, and has not yet been depleted.  I couldn't care less directly states that it is not possible to care as all care in the matter has been spent.

Think of it in different terms with the same applicable pattern.  "I could eat less than I do" means there is still room for reduction in one's eating.  "I couldn't eat less" means there is no further room for reduction in one's eating presumably because you eat nothing or the absolute required minimum.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

You kids better study tonight in case there's a pop quiz tomorrow.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

OMG THIS THREAD

It gives me a headache but while I wait in my car for my salad to be ready, it's quite the read.


----------



## dangerouscurves

LadyLouboutin08 said:


> I don't have much of an opinion on Caitlyn either way.  I'm just happy she finally is able to be herself and seems to be comfortable in her skin, everyone deserves to feel that way.
> 
> I have to say I don't understand the question over her name choice. People are saying it's a "young" name but eventually all the little girls named Caitlyn will be old ladies named Caitlyn so what difference does it make.  Should she have chosen Mary or Gertrude instead, lol?




[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


----------



## dangerouscurves

Oryx816 said:


> Argh!  This is one of my pet peeves!  I could care less implies that some "care" still exists on a subject, and has not yet been depleted.  I couldn't care less directly states that it is not possible to care as all care in the matter has been spent.
> 
> Think of it in different terms with the same applicable pattern.  "I could eat less than I do" means there is still room for reduction in one's eating.  "I couldn't eat less" means there is no further room for reduction in one's eating presumably because you eat nothing or the absolute required minimum.




[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

On the off topic of grammar pet peeves, I cannot stand when people write "could of" or "should of". It's COULD HAVE or WOULD HAVE or COULD'VE or WOULD'VE. "Could of" makes no sense!!!

End rant.

Back to Caitlyn.


----------



## Jikena

Kitties Are Cute said:


> On the off topic of grammar pet peeves, I cannot stand when people write "could of" or "should of". It's COULD HAVE or WOULD HAVE or COULD'VE or WOULD'VE. "Could of" makes no sense!!!
> 
> End rant.
> 
> Back to Caitlyn.



I see it written like that so much that I actually though that was the right way and I was wrong (I'm not a native English speaker). Thanks for this clarification lol.


----------



## sdkitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> You kids better study tonight in case there's a pop quiz tomorrow.


LOL
when did the PF become a place to teach grammar?


----------



## beekmanhill

Hobbsy said:


> Yes! &#55357;&#56842;



Yes,"I could care less" is a generally accepted idiom in 2015.


----------



## dooneybaby

Coach Lover Too said:


> I am SO sick of political correctness.
> 
> Carry on.


I'm going to tell it like it is. If you don't look good and you're a celebrity, girl, I'm not going to hold back! 
Get over it and next time, wear something that actually looks good on you!


----------



## dooneybaby

Yoshi1296 said:


> Everyone is definitely ALLOWED to comment on her appearance (clothes, shoes, etc.) and even her face too like makeup or "omg there is a booger sticking out of her nose!" but some of the people use it as an excuse to make transphobic comments (WHICH IS NOT OKAY). Or some of them just don't realize and just accidentally make transphobic comments thinking it is just about her appearance. But I highly doubt that, yall know damn well what you guys are writing and the things are so rude it makes me so angry. I just wanna see how some of these members look since they are critiquing Caitlyn's face SO much.
> 
> I guess some members here just don't understand that after transitioning or even during transition, you don't always look as perfect as people think, unfortunately. It sucks but it is true. It's like the people that think buying a high end designer item means it should be PERFECT in every way. That's impossible. I am NOT saying they aren't beautiful, but the little flaws you have make you beautiful. Caitlyn still looks great imo. No one looks perfect. But Caitlyn is definitely getting close.
> 
> The main problem is that transphobic appearance comments are NOT okay but comments on material things that contributes to her appearance (outfits and makeup) are totally fine. I hope this make sense.


Child please!
There are a whole lot of transvestites and former men who've undergone sex changes who look damn good as women! You can't help but say "go girl, you work it now!" But sometimes it doesn't work. Caitlyn doesn't look bad, but she could look better, especially with all the money she has. We women are always told the we're so hard on each other.
Well, welcome to the club Caitlyn!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Jayne1 said:


> I guess we shouldn't be surprised, because in all her interviews, she only talked about makeup, painting her toe nails and buying dresses and heels.



Yes, because that is what it means to be a woman.  SMH sarcastically.  And, heck, I am all about the girlie stuff, but this really irks me about Caitlyn.  Seriously she should have changed her name to Caitlyn Kardashian.  Her looks and style have taken a nosedive since VF.  What a wreck.


----------



## blackkitty4378

What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of? It boggles my mind when I see adults misusing you're and your, there and their, etc. and they just don't care.

Even the non-native English speaker in this thread was like, "Oh thanks guys for pointing that out."

I'm not policing anyone's right to use improper grammar, BTW. It's just my opinion.


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> *What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of?* It boggles my mind when I see adults misusing you're and your, there and their, etc. and they just don't care.
> 
> Even the non-native English speaker in this thread was like, "Oh thanks guys for pointing that out."
> 
> I'm not policing anyone's right to use improper grammar, BTW. It's just my opinion.


Well, in that case


----------



## Love4H

We were discussing Jenner with my transgender girlfriends yesterday. 
They all think he/she is not really transgender but just likes to wear female clothes (transsexual?). After long discussion they've all agreed that having 6 kids and being married so many times while feeling like a woman wouldn't be possible. 
But yet they said there are some transgender girls who become lesbian (attracted to women only) after their transition and that got me confused big time.


----------



## Tivo

DesigningStyle said:


> Yes, because that is what it means to be a woman.  SMH sarcastically.  And, heck, I am all about the girlie stuff, but this really irks me about Caitlyn.  Seriously she should have changed her name to Caitlyn Kardashian.  Her looks and style have taken a nosedive since VF.  What a wreck.


A man has NO idea what it means to be a woman and all the weaves, makeup and dresses will not make it so.


----------



## Staci_W

blackkitty4378 said:


> What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of? It boggles my mind when I see adults misusing you're and your, there and their, etc. and they just don't care.
> 
> Even the non-native English speaker in this thread was like, "Oh thanks guys for pointing that out."
> 
> I'm not policing anyone's right to use improper grammar, BTW. It's just my opinion.



I'm with you.  Bad grammar automatically makes me think you're uneducated. In the days of autocorrect I know sometimes it's unintentional, but you can usually pick those mistakes out.


----------



## Jayne1

Love4H said:


> We were discussing Jenner with my transgender girlfriends yesterday.
> They all think he/she is not really transgender but just likes to wear female clothes (transsexual?). After long discussion they've all agreed that having 6 kids and being married so many times while feeling like a woman wouldn't be possible.
> But yet they said there are some transgender girls who become lesbian (attracted to women only) after their transition and that got me confused big time.



There was a guy on CNN who transitioned to being a woman for many years, before changing back, who said the same thing.

He said the first question to Cait should have been along the lines of whether he (Bruce) got sexually excited by dressing up in female attire.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Jayne1 said:


> Well, in that case



I'm not sure what you mean. Did I make a mistake? Feel free to correct me. My grammar/spelling is not perfect although I try and would like it to be.


----------



## Jayne1

Staci_W said:


> I'm with you.  Bad grammar automatically makes me think you're uneducated. In the days of autocorrect I know sometimes it's unintentional, but you can usually pick those mistakes out.



She ended her first sentence with a preposition, which was a bit funny.

(I'm often guilty of beginning a sentence with a conjunction, but I do it on purpose. lol )


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. Did I make a mistake? Feel free to correct me. My grammar/spelling is not perfect although I try and would like it to be.



You ended your sentence with a preposition. I wouldn't have said anything, but you were mentioning correct grammar.

I too, like when someone corrects me, as long as they are nice about it.


----------



## Oryx816

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. Did I make a mistake? Feel free to correct me. My grammar/spelling is not perfect although I try and would like it to be.




I think Jayne is referring to the ending of your first sentence with a preposition.  It should read......"language of which you are native speakers".  I apologize if I didn't state your words accurately.  I am working from memory.  

And, to address your point, I too deplore poor grammar and misspellings.  There is no excuse for some of the mistakes you mentioned which are, sadly, commonly made.  I will also add one more--"mines" (as in diamond mines) being erroneously used in place of the possessive pronoun "mine".  Grrrr!


----------



## Oryx816

Staci_W said:


> I'm with you.  Bad grammar automatically makes me think you're uneducated. In the days of autocorrect I know sometimes it's unintentional, but you can usually pick those mistakes out.




This, precisely.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Jayne1 said:


> You ended your sentence with a preposition. *I wouldn't have said anything, but you were mentioning correct grammar.*
> 
> I too like when someone corrects mine. My son never hesitates. He's brutal, but it's a good thing.   lol



Like I said, feel free to call me out.

I just looked it up, and according to this and a few other websites, that rule is a myth: http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/11/grammar-myths-prepositions/


----------



## Oryx816

And now that we are on the topic of grammar, spelling, diction etc., (for a nice change of pace here)....

I have one gigantic pet peeve.  I cannot stand when people use supposedly interchangeably with supposably.  They are both real words but with different meanings.  

Supposedly, means that which is commonly assumed or believed.  Supposably is something that has the capacity to be (mentally) conceived; it is synonymous with conceivably.  

Rant over.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Oryx816 said:


> I think Jayne is referring to the ending of your first sentence with a preposition.  It should read......"*language of which you are native speakers*".  I apologize if I didn't state your words accurately.  I am working from memory.
> 
> And, to address your point, I too deplore poor grammar and misspellings.  There is no excuse for some of the mistakes you mentioned which are, sadly, commonly made.  I will also add one more--"mines" (as in diamond mines) being erroneously used in place of the possessive pronoun "mine".  Grrrr!



That sounds super awkward. lol. Look at the link I just posted. I understand you were taught not to end it in a preposition, so you're just following the rule you were taught. The link I posted said it's actually incorrect and in doing so makes the sentence sound awkward. Funny because you just said it after I posted it.

ETA: My last sentence was just a fragment, lol. I feel like here it's conversational, so some mishaps are okay and I'm not going to go after someone for not using the subjunctive, for example, when they should have. I just really, really, really, wish people would learn the difference between you're and your and their and there, etc. Those things are easy (to me). That was my main point.


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> Like I said, feel free to call me out.
> 
> I just looked it up, and according to this and a few other websites, that rule is a myth: http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/11/grammar-myths-prepositions/


Perhaps for some words, but "of" isn't one of them. 

Let's ask *Oryx816.*


----------



## ForeverYoung87

DesigningStyle said:


> Yes, because that is what it means to be a woman.  SMH sarcastically.  And, heck, I am all about the girlie stuff, but this really irks me about Caitlyn.  Seriously she should have changed her name to Caitlyn Kardashian.  Her looks and style have taken a nosedive since VF.  What a wreck.


She's only given two interviews. One of the newer promos for her show said something like how she's going to go dirt biking or something like that because "girls can do that too". Idk why people think she's going to come out looking perfect. I doubt she's completely done with the surgeries and I doubt Laverne Cox looked good at first too. Lower the expectations she literally JUST transitioned. It's funny that people criticize her for using female stereotypes to identify as a woman but then you have women here using female stereotypes to criticize her and refuse to acknowledge her as a woman because she doesn't look like one. So not only are women harder on each other they also can be hypocrites.


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> That sounds super awkward. lol. Look at the link I just posted. I understand you were taught not to end it in a preposition, so you're just following the rule you were taught. The link I posted said it's actually incorrect and in doing so makes the sentence sound awkward. Funny because you just said it after I posted it.



Yes, it does sound awkward, so re-word your sentence, instead of using something so formal.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Tivo said:


> A man has NO idea what it means to be a woman and all the weaves, makeup and dresses will not make it so.



Exactly.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, it does sound awkward, so re-word your sentence, instead of using something so formal.



That's the point. Rewording it does sound awkward, so it's best to avoid it.

How would you have said it?


----------



## mama13drama99

dooneybaby said:


> I'm going to tell it like it is. If you don't look good and you're a celebrity, girl, I'm not going to hold back!
> Get over it and next time, wear something that actually looks good on you!




Man, why can't that be accepted????  It has nothing to do with transgender people.  It's "Caitlyn, you look like a HAM (a lot, cause I've only seen one, MAYBE two, times she's looked okay/decent/nice/and dare I say slayed)!"  There have been a few times I haven't like Lavern Cox's appearance either.  Has nothing to do with Transgender people as a group/whole!


----------



## Oryx816

blackkitty4378 said:


> That sounds super awkward. lol. Look at the link I just posted. I understand you were taught not to end it in a preposition, so you're just following the rule you were taught. The link I posted said it's actually incorrect and in doing so makes the sentence sound awkward. Funny because you just said it after I posted it.
> 
> ETA: My last sentence was just a fragment, lol. I feel like here it's conversational, so some mishaps are okay and I'm not going to go after someone for not using the subjunctive, for example, when they should have. I just really, really, really, wish people would learn the difference between you're and your and their and there, etc. Those things are easy (to me). That was my main point.




I grant you that this rule is greatly disputed.  In an informal setting such as this, I feel your sentence is colloquially acceptable.  In a professional setting I would amend it as I indicated above.  

There are instances where I feel that style and fluidity must ***** the awkwardness of implementing the rule, particularly in phrases that include a preposition as an ending (as opposed to when the preposition initiates a prepositional phrase).  For example, "sitting on" or "working on" would be tremendously awkward in a question form if the preposition were not allowed to remain as a colloquial phrase.  "What are you working on?", is in my mind, more appropriate than "On what are you working?"  Unless you are are a member of a Shakespearean speech group this would sound odd at best.

Yes, this is of minuscule proportion in comparison to the botched spellings and massacre of possessive pronouns witnessed on a daily basis.


----------



## mama13drama99

Jayne1 said:


> She ended her first sentence with a preposition, which was a bit funny.
> 
> (I'm often guilty of beginning a sentence with a conjunction, but I do it on purpose. lol )




I often start with "butt" and "and".  The rules of ELA transform a lot and often.  It's acceptable to start with conjunctions now.  If it appears to be a trend or too heavily relied on in extended response portion of a standardized test it could easily be "dinged" depending on the scorer.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mama13drama99 said:


> Man, why can't that be accepted????  It has nothing to do with transgender people.  It's "Caitlyn, you look like a HAM (a lot, cause I've only seen one, MAYBE two, times she's looked okay/decent/nice/and dare I say slayed)!"  There have been a few times I haven't like Lavern Cox's appearance either.  Has nothing to do with Transgender people as a group/whole!



That's because some people are so super sensitive about the transgender topic that it's hard for them to separate the two.
I think Chaz Bono looks great as who he is now, and I think of him as male, but Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner has fraud written all over him/ her to me. Nothing to do with him claiming to be transgender (which I still question) and everything to do with his character.


----------



## Oryx816

Jayne1 said:


> Perhaps for some words, but "of" isn't one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's ask *Oryx816.*




Lol!  My husband keeps threatening to buy me a t shirt that reads "yes, I am silently correcting your grammar".

I feel that "of" generally has a quick and efficacious manner of not being left dangling.  Using "of which" earlier in one's sentence usually clears up the issue.  I don't feel that it sounds pedantic, I feel that it is polished speech; some might disagree.  If I'm writing something and I wind up with a preposition at the end of a sentence, I normally revisit the entire sentence to see if it can be written in a more tidy and elegant way.  

These are small, stylistic grammatical battles compared to the egregious examples referenced previously which make me cringe on a daily basis.


----------



## Oryx816

mama13drama99 said:


> I often start with "butt" and "and".  The rules of ELA transform a lot and often.  It's acceptable to start with conjunctions now.  If it appears to be a trend or too heavily relied on in extended response portion of a standardized test it could easily be "dinged" depending on the scorer.




I like that you lead with "butt".


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> That's the point. Rewording it does sound awkward, so it's best to avoid it.
> 
> How would you have said it?



Good question. I'm a terrible writer, so someone will do better, I'm sure.

"What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of?"

Naive speakers should know how to speak correctly and use proper grammar. What's wrong with that?

*Oryx816* could probably re-write my sentence and make it sound more elegant. lol


----------



## mama13drama99

Staci_W said:


> I'm with you.  Bad grammar automatically makes me think you're uneducated. In the days of autocorrect I know sometimes it's unintentional, but you can usually pick those mistakes out.




When i first joined the forum, I would proofread my post like crazy.  I reread after i posted then I'd go back and edit if I found mistakes still lingered.  Now I don't care!  That's too time consuming.  It is the furthest thing from the truth that I am uneducated (and, yes, I know you didn't say that about me so this isn't negative towards you).  Autocorrect is far more of a crutch than a support.  It autocorrects based on your pattern of ACCEPTING it's suggested corrections.  So, for example, I use to type hell all the time but my phone (and I NEVER use my computer for the forum) but autocorrect would replace it with he'll.  I realized the only way to get it to stop doing that was not to just delete and retype the word, but to actually close the suggested word before it's added to what I'm typing.  Also, just typing extremely fast or from a phone will easily result in errors. 

None of what I said above negates that there is a great deal of poor grammar in the world!  I had kids the other day saying mices.  When I corrected them , a few said that they hear others (didn't ask who) say it all the time.  As an educator, I've learned (from observation) that some people's acquisition of poor grammar is passed on (and that's no indication that it's passed on from family either).  I've done classroom observations where I've heard teachers say liberry (not library). Did I say it's been TEACHERS  who I've heard pronounce library that way???  In writing, people use that after referring to a person or group of people, such as if I would have said in the sentence above, '...been teacher THAT...".  An object or thing is a "that"!  When I see that it's like a needle in my eye.

Okay, lesson over.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I consider myself an eloquent writer when I manage to express myself without using the *f* word. 
(especially when discussing those effing Kardashians!)


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> I consider myself an eloquent writer when I manage to express myself without using the *f* word.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Me too!


----------



## Jayne1

Oryx816 said:


> Lol!  My husband keeps threatening to buy me a t shirt that reads "yes, I am silently correcting your grammar".
> 
> I feel that "of" generally has a quick and efficacious manner of not being left dangling.  Using "of which" earlier in one's sentence usually clears up the issue.  I don't feel that it sounds pedantic, I feel that it is polished speech; some might disagree.  If I'm writing something and I wind up with a preposition at the end of a sentence, I normally revisit the entire sentence to see if it can be written in a more tidy and elegant way.
> 
> These are small, stylistic grammatical battles compared to the egregious examples referenced previously which make me cringe on a daily basis.



I cannot read Twitter anymore. It makes me cringe. Do you feel the same?


----------



## mama13drama99

Oryx816 said:


> I like that you lead with "butt".




Let me be please [emoji12]!  I'm paranoid about but/butt and I think it increases my chances of getting it wrong when I over think using them!  Isn't that cray-cray?


----------



## Oryx816

Jayne1 said:


> Good question. I'm a terrible writer, so someone will do better, I'm sure.
> 
> 
> 
> "What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of?"
> 
> 
> 
> Naive speakers should know how to speak correctly and use proper grammar. What's wrong with that?
> 
> 
> 
> *Oryx816* could probably re-write my sentence and make it sound more elegant. lol




I would re-write it as follows:  "What's wrong with the native speakers of a language using proper grammar and speaking correctly?"


----------



## tweegy

Man, the last bit of pages had me wondering if this was Caitlyn's thread or grammar skeul...

Or if Caitlyn was now going to be an english teacher...


----------



## Oryx816

tweegy said:


> Man, the last bit of pages had me wondering if this was Caitlyn's thread or grammar skeul...
> 
> Or if Caitlyn was now going to be an english teacher...




Perhaps Caitlyn's daughters should come here and learn something.  

Hearing them speak, and struggle to formulate a coherent thought, is as horrifying as their plastic surgery.


----------



## DesigningStyle

blackkitty4378 said:


> What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of? It boggles my mind when I see adults misusing you're and your, there and their, etc. and they just don't care.
> 
> Even the non-native English speaker in this thread was like, "Oh thanks guys for pointing that out."
> 
> I'm not policing anyone's right to use improper grammar, BTW. It's just my opinion.



That fact that anyone is even mentioning someone's grammar on an online forum is not called for.  There I used a preposition at the end of a sentence.  

EVERYONE just stop with the grammar comments. Seriously.


----------



## tweegy

Oryx816 said:


> Perhaps Caitlyn's daughters should come here and learn something.
> 
> Hearing them speak, and struggle to formulate a coherent thought, is as horrifying as their plastic surgery.



Well one of her daughters DID go to two (2) colleges...


----------



## DesigningStyle

ForeverYoung87 said:


> She's only given two interviews. One of the newer promos for her show said something like how she's going to go dirt biking or something like because "girls can do that too". Idk why people think she's going to come out looking perfect. I doubt she's completely done with the surgeries and I doubt Laverne Cox looked good at first too. Lower the expectations she literally JUST transitioned. It's funny that people criticize her for using female stereotypes to identify as a woman but then you have women here using female stereotypes to criticize her and refuse to acknowledged her as a woman because she doesn't look like one. So not only are women harder on each other they also can be hypocrites.



Pictures speak volumes.  Why oh why must I see her boobs in every photo?  Why?


----------



## Florasun

I don't think this photo of Cait in the Herve Leger dress has been posted yet


----------



## tweegy

Herve Leger? Is that one of Kim's old dresses?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

We need to start a fan club for that bodyguard!  #mommalike


----------



## Hobbsy

Oryx816 said:


> Perhaps Caitlyn's daughters should come here and learn something.
> 
> Hearing them speak, and struggle to formulate a coherent thought, is as horrifying as their plastic surgery.



Now that's a great idea!


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> We need to start a fan club for that bodyguard!  #mommalike



You beat me to it! &#128521;


----------



## whimsic

She should wear Kim's clothes more often. At least they would look great on her.


----------



## Jayne1

Oryx816 said:


> I would re-write it as follows:  "What's wrong with the native speakers of a language using proper grammar and speaking correctly?"


Much better!


----------



## krissa

ForeverYoung87 said:


> She's only given two interviews. One of the newer promos for her show said something like how she's going to go dirt biking or something like because "girls can do that too". Idk why people think she's going to come out looking perfect. I doubt she's completely done with the surgeries and I doubt Laverne Cox looked good at first too. Lower the expectations she literally JUST transitioned. It's funny that people criticize her for using female stereotypes to identify as a woman but then you have women here using female stereotypes to criticize her and refuse to acknowledged her as a woman because she doesn't look like one. So not only are women harder on each other they also can be hypocrites.



Women are harder on each other.


----------



## Oryx816

Jayne1 said:


> Much better!




Thank you!


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> You ended your sentence with a preposition. I wouldn't have said anything, but you were mentioning correct grammar.
> 
> I too, like when someone corrects me, as long as they are nice about it.




She's actually correct. That preposition there is on the right place.


----------



## Jayne1

dangerouscurves said:


> She's actually correct. That preposition there is on the right place.


As a grammar rule, ending a sentence with a preposition is incorrect.

Or, are you saying her sentence needs the preposition at the end to make sense?


----------



## ForeverYoung87

DesigningStyle said:


> Pictures speak volumes.  Why oh why must I see her boobs in every photo?  Why?



Lol. I guess she's no different than all those other women who recently had a boob job and want to show them off


----------



## SouthTampa

Coach Lover Too said:


> We need to start a fan club for that bodyguard!  #mommalike


He is HANDSOME!


----------



## Oryx816

Coach Lover Too said:


> We need to start a fan club for that bodyguard!  #mommalike




Reminds me of this gem from 30 Rock...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGqOlH0s8Fc


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> As a grammar rule, ending a sentence with a preposition is incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, are you saying her sentence needs the preposition at the end to make sense?




Nope. That's just a myth.
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/ending-a-sentence-with-a-preposition


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oryx816 said:


> Reminds me of this gem from 30 Rock...
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGqOlH0s8Fc



hahhahaha


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Well I was trying to find the name of the hot bodyguard, but I found this instead. Brody's not very happy with his poppa it seems. He too is wondering why Caitlyn needs a bodyguard and it sounds like it was all Kim's idea. Surprise, surprise!

Caitlyn  Jenner got tips from stepdaughter Kim Kardashian to hire a bodyguard to  take her shopping... and he is absolutely hot! However, son Brody  Jenner does not seem to be thrilled by the idea of his father (or  mother) having to hire a bodyguard as he hasn't had one ever since.





 Caitlyn Jenner recently revealed to the world this year that he is,  in fact, a transgender woman. After which, he (or now, she) decided to  undergo surgery to secure herself of the name. After appearing on the  cover of Vanity Fair, Daily Mail reports that Jenner has been going out shopping non-stop... and with a hot hunk as her bodyguard.


 Consequently, reports indicate that Kim Kardashian, Jenner's  stepdaughter, was the one who recommended that she should hire one. In  fact, Kardashian has her very own bodyguard who looks just as good and  hunky as that of Jenner's.


 Despite Jenner's acquisition of a bodyguard to accompany him while  shopping at "Sex and the City" designer's boutique, her son, Brody  Jenner, revealed that he is not very thrilled about the idea. A source  indicated that Brody thinks his dad is overreacting to everything and  acting like an attention-hungry Kardashian clone.


 According to Radar Online,  Brody thinks that his father is acting like a Kardashian wannabe who  has been doing nothing else but going shopping and changing her wardrobe  four times in a row in just one day. Furthermore, he also thinks that a  bodyguard is unnecessary for his dad since he has never had one, even  when he was still Bruce Jenner.


 When Jenner stepped out of Patricia Field's store in New York, he  came out dressed with a sequenced mini-skirt, not the leopard-printed  whole dress when he came in. Of course, his hunky bodyguard accompanied  him the whole time.


 In other news, Jenner's new reality TV Show entitled "I Am Cait" is due to air on E! this July 26th that will showcase her journey as being a new person altogether.
 Do you think that the "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" and soon to  be "I Am Cait" star is going overboard with the shopping and hiring a  new bodyguard to accompany him all the time? Do you think that her  stepdaughter Kim Kardashian is trying to make her into a Kardashian  clone? Post your comments below.


http://www.realtytoday.com/articles...kim-kardashian-new-bodyguards-totally-hot.htm


----------



## Hobbsy

I don't know what to think about the bodyguard. The shopping I can totally understand!  Finally free to shop for whatever you want and having the ability to wear it now has to be very exciting, fun and deserving!!


----------



## Sarni

Totally agree that she is definitely a wannabe kardashian.


----------



## tweegy

Wait- uumm or mother???

Are the writers of the article confused?


----------



## Jayne1

dangerouscurves said:


> Nope. That's just a myth.
> http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/ending-a-sentence-with-a-preposition



I never go by the first thing that pops up on a Google search. Ending a sentence with a preposition should be avoided, if possible.  What's next, eliminating the Oxford comma?


----------



## V0N1B2

Jayne1 said:


> I never go by the first thing that pops up on a Google search. Ending a sentence with a preposition should be avoided, if possible.  What's next, eliminating the Oxford comma?


Oh, my, Vaclav would not, like, the deletion of, a comma


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> I never go by the first thing that pops up on a Google search. Ending a sentence with a preposition should be avoided, if possible.  What's next, eliminating the Oxford comma?




Well, as the article states, there are circumstances where you can't avoid ending a sentence with a preposition. And you're not violating any grammatical rule if you do that. It's not even a faux-pas, it's just grammatically correct.


----------



## Jayne1

V0N1B2 said:


> Oh, my, Vaclav would not, like, the deletion of, a comma


I love my commas, thank you very much.


----------



## Jayne1

dangerouscurves said:


> Well, as the article states, there are circumstances where you can't avoid ending a sentence with a preposition. And you're not violating any grammatical rule if you do that. It's not even a faux-pas, it's just grammatically correct.


Okay, but nevertheless, it's often superfluous and sounds awkward.


----------



## AshTx.1

Omfg grammar in the Caitlyn thread. Lol. This thread is all kinds of cray lol!


----------



## V0N1B2

I want to know when Caitlyn is going back to California to play at her Sherwood Country Club.
Surely, she'll get bored of living this "Sex and the City" fantasy soon, won't she?

I'm curious as to whether or not she will petition to be allowed in the men's area that she has used for the last fifteen years.  I wonder how she will feel about not being allowed to play golf on certain days and/or times because she now identifies as a woman?   Will she enjoy having to use the women's only area of her club which does not have the same benefits of the men's only part of the club?  
Curious to hear how she will respond to the sexual discrimination at her "old boys club".

I only ask because I have been to these types of clubs, and while both men and women pay the same initiation fees as well as monthy dues and spend the requisite number of dollars in the food & beverage areas, they are not entitled to the same perks and/or treatment.
^^^ yes, that was a run-on sentence, thank you.


----------



## Jayne1

AshTx.1 said:


> Omfg grammar in the Caitlyn thread. Lol. This thread is all kinds of cray lol!


Yes, all kinds of cray and educational too.  lol


----------



## GaitreeS

V0N1B2 said:


> I want to know when Caitlyn is going back to California to play at her Sherwood Country Club.
> Surely, she'll get bored of living this "Sex and the City" fantasy soon, won't she?
> 
> I'm curious as to whether or not she will petition to be allowed in the men's area that she has used for the last fifteen years.  I wonder how she will feel about not being allowed to play golf on certain days and/or times because she now identifies as a woman?   Will she enjoy having to use the women's only area of her club which does not have the same benefits of the men's only part of the club?
> Curious to hear how she will respond to the sexual discrimination at her "old boys club".
> 
> I only ask because I have been to these types of clubs, and while both men and women pay the same initiation fees as well as monthy dues and spend the requisite number of dollars in the food & beverage areas, they are not entitled to the same perks and/or treatment.
> ^^^ yes, that was a run-on sentence, thank you.


 
Pretty soon such barriers will not exist, people will cry discrimination. 

On another note, I go to an all women's gym because I'm more comfortable ...I  imagine pretty soon that will change and I will be working out at home


----------



## Jayne1

V0N1B2 said:


> I want to know when Caitlyn is going back to California to play at her Sherwood Country Club.
> Surely, she'll get bored of living this "Sex and the City" fantasy soon, won't she?
> 
> I'm curious as to whether or not she will petition to be allowed in the men's area that she has used for the last fifteen years.  I wonder how she will feel about not being allowed to play golf on certain days and/or times because she now identifies as a woman?   Will she enjoy having to use the women's only area of her club which does not have the same benefits of the men's only part of the club?
> Curious to hear how she will respond to the sexual discrimination at her "old boys club".
> 
> I only ask because I have been to these types of clubs, and while both men and women pay the same initiation fees as well as monthy dues and spend the requisite number of dollars in the food & beverage areas, they are not entitled to the same perks and/or treatment.
> ^^^ yes, that was a run-on sentence, thank you.


She'll go back to Malibu when she's finished filming her _Cait takes Manhattan _segment for her TV show. At some point, I assume, she'll want to take the heels off, slip on the sneakers and play with her RC helicopters and go fro a round of golf.

I love a good run-on sentence, by the way.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, all kinds of cray and educational too.  lol




This I agree. The things that we learn here are amazing [emoji4][emoji4][emoji4]


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

blackkitty4378 said:


> What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of? It boggles my mind when I see adults misusing you're and your, there and their, etc. and they just don't care.
> 
> Even the non-native English speaker in this thread was like, "Oh thanks guys for pointing that out."
> 
> I'm not policing anyone's right to use improper grammar, BTW. It's just my opinion.



Marry me!


----------



## Encore Hermes

V0N1B2 said:


> Oh, my, Vaclav would not, like, the deletion of, a comma




Vaclav memories I, like. 



> Which social, media is best to, share our lies, together?


----------



## mistikat

I miss Vaclav...! or rather ...

I, miss Vaclav.


----------



## schadenfreude

daffyduck said:


> I say her style is much more CLASSIER than the Kardashian clan. She's not showing or purposely displaying her T&A, well at least, not yet anyway.



Well, I'm not sure about this, she's certainly been parading those hooters around a good deal. And a sequined miniskirt? Really? Manly chicken legs aside, she's still 65.


----------



## dooneybaby

blackkitty4378 said:


> What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of? It boggles my mind when I see adults misusing you're and your, there and their, etc. and they just don't care.
> 
> Even the non-native English speaker in this thread was like, "Oh thanks guys for pointing that out."
> 
> I'm not policing anyone's right to use improper grammar, BTW. It's just my opinion.


I don't think it's that people don't care, I just don't think some people know. And in some cases (and I do this myself), I'm writing so fast that I may say "I'm going to by that dress" instead of "I'm going to buy that dress." I usually give what I've written a once-over and make the corrections before I post it. Even then, I may not catch every mistake. 
Our way of communicating on TPF is very relaxed, and it should be, as long as we get across our message. So let's give our fellow TPFers a break.
I work as a broadcast news editor, and being a professional, I know that it's easy to make mistakes when writing copy. That's why when we write something, someone else edits our copy before publishing it.
A second set of eyes is important to reduce the mistakes. We don't have that luxury here, so let's not get in the habit of correcting people's grammar. 
And yes, sometimes I end a sentence with a preposition. So shoot me! 

Now back to Caitlyn...


----------



## blackkitty4378

dooneybaby said:


> I don't think it's that people don't care, I just don't think some people know. And in some cases (and I do this myself), I'm writing so fast that I may say "I'm going to by that dress" instead of "I'm going to buy that dress." I usually give what I've written a once-over and make the corrections before I post it. Even then, I may not catch every mistake.
> Our way of communicating on TPF is very relaxed, and it should be, as long as we get across our message. So let's give our fellow TPFers a break.
> I work as a broadcast news editor, and being a professional, I know that it's easy to make mistakes when writing copy. That's why when we write something, someone else edits our copy before publishing it.
> A second set of eyes is important to reduce the mistakes. We don't have that luxury here, so let's not get in the habit of correcting people's grammar.
> And yes, sometimes I end a sentence with a preposition. So shoot me!
> 
> Now back to Caitlyn...



I'm right there with you. My comment was in general about people who don't care about their own native language enough to learn the very basics. It's not that hard to learn the difference between your and you're, and there and their, etc.

And if someone ever corrects you, don't say they're wrong when they have evidence that you're actually wrong. Own up to it.


----------



## Bentley1

schadenfreude said:


> Well, I'm not sure about this, she's certainly been parading those hooters around a good deal. And a sequined miniskirt? Really? Manly chicken legs aside, she's still 65.




She's dressing ridiculously. I was disgusted with her the minute I saw how she chose to come out on the cover of VF. That set the tone for how she wants to be viewed as a woman and apparently she's always wanted to be a "sex symbol." The potential for that ship sailed 3-4 decades ago.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> She's dressing ridiculously. I was disgusted with her the minute I saw how she chose to come out on the cover of VF. That set the tone for how she wants to be viewed as a woman and apparently she's always wanted to be a "sex symbol." The potential for that ship sailed 3-4 decades ago.



Yep.


----------



## Eva1991

blackkitty4378 said:


> What's wrong with having proper grammar and speaking a language correctly that some of you probably are native speakers of? It boggles my mind when I see adults misusing you're and your, there and their, etc. and they just don't care.
> 
> Even the non-native English speaker in this thread was like, "Oh thanks guys for pointing that out."
> 
> I'm not policing anyone's right to use improper grammar, BTW. It's just my opinion.



+1000

(I'm not a native speaker by the way.)


----------



## Florasun

whimsic said:


> She should wear Kim's clothes more often. At least they would look great on her.



Yes they look better on Cait than they do on Kris. Must be killing Kris.


----------



## Coco Belle

Jayne1 said:


> I never go by the first thing that pops up on a Google search. Ending a sentence with a preposition should be avoided, if possible.  What's next, eliminating the Oxford comma?



I work as a professional editor and let me tell you, the Oxford comma is on its last legs. Many style guides insist that it never be used!! I like using it myself, but it is not a _grammar _rule -- it's a matter of style only.

Also - that stuff about ending in a preposition - that's definitely not a thing anymore. It actually never was. It's a holdover from when the educated classes learned Latin as their formal language; in Latin, you cannot split prepositions out as separate words and put them at the end of the sentence. So, the educated classes would mimic this in English, and use it as a way to sniff at those who did not know Latin. In other words, it was linguistic snobbery.

However, English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language like Latin - and in Germanic languages, it is, in fact, frequently grammatically correct to place the preposition at the end of sentence. Again, it's more a matter of _style_ -- not grammar.

In most modern style guides, using "plain English" is a big concern - and one of the key elements of making English plainer (less jargon-y) is to return it to its Germanic roots and ignore the Latin-based style snobberies of the 19th and early 20th century. Often, avoiding ending with a preposition creates somewhat tortured sentence constructions, and these are greatly frowned upon by modern editors.

/tangent


----------



## AEGIS

now you guys are correcting grammar? [skimmed btw]
god this thread is just----bleh


----------



## Jayne1

Coco Belle said:


> *I work as a professional editor and let me tell you, the Oxford comma is on its last legs.* Many style guides insist that it never be used!! I like using it myself, but it is not a _grammar _rule -- it's a matter of style only.
> 
> Also - that stuff about ending in a preposition - that's definitely not a thing anymore. It actually never was. It's a holdover from when the educated classes learned Latin as their formal language; in Latin, you cannot split prepositions out as separate words and put them at the end of the sentence. So, the educated classes would mimic this in English, and use it as a way to sniff at those who did not know Latin. In other words, it was linguistic snobbery.
> 
> However, English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language like Latin - and in Germanic languages, it is, in fact, frequently grammatically correct to place the preposition at the end of sentence. Again, it's more a matter of _style_ -- not grammar.
> 
> In most modern style guides, using "plain English" is a big concern - and one of the key elements of making English plainer (less jargon-y) is to return it to its Germanic roots and ignore the Latin-based style snobberies of the 19th and early 20th century. Often, avoiding ending with a preposition creates somewhat tortured sentence constructions, and these are greatly frowned upon by modern editors.
> 
> /tangent


I was joking about the oxford comma.  I know it&#8217;s on its last legs, but I will never give it up. It&#8217;s a necessity for me. My writing is too horrible to eliminate commas.  lol

I love a grammar discussion -- thank you for the insights!


----------



## Bentley1

As if this thread wasn't nit picky enough, now people are being schooled on grammar. It's like a chore getting through this thread, I swear. 
The grammar discussion is getting old.


----------



## Jayne1

schadenfreude said:


> Well, I'm not sure about this, she's certainly been parading those hooters around a good deal. And a sequined miniskirt? Really? Manly chicken legs aside, she's still 65.



Yes, I agree.  Patricia Fields did her no favours She walked into the store looking better than when she walked out.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> As if this thread wasn't nit picky enough, now people are being schooled on grammar. It's like a chore getting through this thread, I swear.
> The grammar discussion is getting old.



I understand what you're saying, but we are also having a feng shui discussion over on the Jenner kids thread and I'm finding it far more interesting and informative than talking about Kylie's Instagram life. 

I hope Cait takes an interesting daily pap stroll, so we can go back to discussing her again.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> I understand what you're saying, but we are also having a feng shui discussion over on the Jenner kids thread and I'm finding it far more interesting and informative than talking about Kylie's Instagram life.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope Cait takes an interesting daily pap stroll, so we can go back to discussing her again.




They've all been boring for days now! 
I certainly don't mind some fun off topic convos, but when they go on for pages and from one day into the next, it gets to be too much. Especially when it's folks nit picking at something that's completely off topic. [emoji42]

Cait needs to put on a flag bikini for the 4th and keep us entertained.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> They've all been boring for days now!
> I certainly don't mind some fun off topic convos, but when they go on for pages and from one day into the next, it gets to be too much. Especially when it's folks nit picking at something that's completely off topic. [emoji42]
> 
> *Cait needs to put on a flag bikini for the 4th and keep us entertained.*



Can you imagine?


----------



## ByeKitty

I like the oxford comma, but teachers always told me not to use it, even in primary school. It's considered incorrect in my mother tongue. English makes me get away with it though. I can just say that it's ok in American English!


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> Can you imagine?




Something a la Alexis from Real Housewives OC, beach ball and everything. 

Wish I had skills, I'd photoshop Cait's head on her body.


----------



## Florasun

Coco Belle said:


> I work as a professional editor and let me tell you, the Oxford comma is on its last legs. Many style guides insist that it never be used!! I like using it myself, but it is not a _grammar _rule -- it's a matter of style only.
> 
> Also - that stuff about ending in a preposition - that's definitely not a thing anymore. It actually never was. It's a holdover from when the educated classes learned Latin as their formal language; in Latin, you cannot split prepositions out as separate words and put them at the end of the sentence. So, the educated classes would mimic this in English, and use it as a way to sniff at those who did not know Latin. In other words, it was linguistic snobbery.
> 
> However, English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language like Latin - and in Germanic languages, it is, in fact, frequently grammatically correct to place the preposition at the end of sentence. Again, it's more a matter of _style_ -- not grammar.
> 
> In most modern style guides, using "plain English" is a big concern - and one of the key elements of making English plainer (less jargon-y) is to return it to its Germanic roots and ignore the Latin-based style snobberies of the 19th and early 20th century. Often, avoiding ending with a preposition creates somewhat tortured sentence constructions, and these are greatly frowned upon by modern editors.
> 
> /tangent



Interesting!
And I would never have learned this without Cait.


----------



## Florasun

Bentley1 said:


> They've all been boring for days now!
> I certainly don't mind some fun off topic convos, but when they go on for pages and from one day into the next, it gets to be too much. Especially when it's folks nit picking at something that's completely off topic. [emoji42]
> 
> *Cait needs to put on a flag bikini for the 4th and keep us entertained.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Move over, Kim. It's Cait's turn to crash the Internet!


----------



## guccimamma

i rarely use capitalization and autocorrect generally does the opposite for me, my sentences run on forever....


----------



## dangerouscurves

Bentley1 said:


> They've all been boring for days now!
> I certainly don't mind some fun off topic convos, but when they go on for pages and from one day into the next, it gets to be too much. Especially when it's folks nit picking at something that's completely off topic. [emoji42]
> 
> Cait needs to put on a flag bikini for the 4th and keep us entertained.




LMAO @ your last sentence.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coco Belle said:


> I work as a professional editor and let me tell you, the Oxford comma is on its last legs. Many style guides insist that it never be used!! I like using it myself, but it is not a _grammar _rule -- it's a matter of style only.
> 
> 
> 
> Also - that stuff about ending in a preposition - that's definitely not a thing anymore. It actually never was. It's a holdover from when the educated classes learned Latin as their formal language; in Latin, you cannot split prepositions out as separate words and put them at the end of the sentence. So, the educated classes would mimic this in English, and use it as a way to sniff at those who did not know Latin. In other words, it was linguistic snobbery.
> 
> 
> 
> However, English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language like Latin - and in Germanic languages, it is, in fact, frequently grammatically correct to place the preposition at the end of sentence. Again, it's more a matter of _style_ -- not grammar.
> 
> 
> 
> In most modern style guides, using "plain English" is a big concern - and one of the key elements of making English plainer (less jargon-y) is to return it to its Germanic roots and ignore the Latin-based style snobberies of the 19th and early 20th century. Often, avoiding ending with a preposition creates somewhat tortured sentence constructions, and these are greatly frowned upon by modern editors.
> 
> 
> 
> /tangent




Yep. I speak both English and German and I totally understand this.


----------



## paper_flowers

Coco Belle said:


> I work as a professional editor and let me tell you, the Oxford comma is on its last legs. Many style guides insist that it never be used!! I like using it myself, but it is not a _grammar _rule -- it's a matter of style only.
> 
> Also - that stuff about ending in a preposition - that's definitely not a thing anymore. It actually never was. It's a holdover from when the educated classes learned Latin as their formal language; in Latin, you cannot split prepositions out as separate words and put them at the end of the sentence. So, the educated classes would mimic this in English, and use it as a way to sniff at those who did not know Latin. In other words, it was linguistic snobbery.
> 
> However, English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language like Latin - and in Germanic languages, it is, in fact, frequently grammatically correct to place the preposition at the end of sentence. Again, it's more a matter of _style_ -- not grammar.
> 
> In most modern style guides, using "plain English" is a big concern - and one of the key elements of making English plainer (less jargon-y) is to return it to its Germanic roots and ignore the Latin-based style snobberies of the 19th and early 20th century. Often, avoiding ending with a preposition creates somewhat tortured sentence constructions, and these are greatly frowned upon by modern editors.
> 
> /tangent



Just want to say I love this post, so thank you! 

I studied English literature in college. I wish they taught us more stuff like this, so your post was intellectually nourishing for me lol. Also made me feel kind of silly for not knowing any of this considering my background


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bruce who?!?


----------



## sdkitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Bruce who?!?


really
Obviously several people here find it interesting to talk about English language and grammar but I thought this was a gossip subforum. Wouldn't that be more conversational and casual?


----------



## Staci_W

I use the Oxford comma too.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

sdkitty said:


> really
> Obviously several people here find it interesting to talk about English language and grammar but I thought this was a gossip subforum. Wouldn't that be more conversational and casual?



They're probably just bored. The minute Bruce/Caityn's new show starts, we'll have LOTS to talk about! We'll be talkin' about exclamation points instead of commas!


----------



## lizmil

Looks like we need a grammar thread. And no one has mention Weird Als grammar song and video.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Where's the gossip?? Why are we discussing punctuation?


----------



## Sarni

ChanelMommy said:


> Where's the gossip?? Why are we discussing punctuation?




Ummm...punctuation is more interesting!


----------



## Jayne1

paper_flowers said:


> Just want to say I love this post, so thank you!
> 
> I studied English literature in college. I wish they taught us more stuff like this, so your post was intellectually nourishing for me lol. Also made me feel kind of silly for not knowing any of this considering my background



Yes, I think talking about Cait's dresses and makeup, which I'm happy to do, can only go so far before we need to discuss something more informative and significant.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> They're probably just bored. The minute Bruce/Caityn's new show starts, we'll have LOTS to talk about! We'll be talkin' about exclamation points instead of commas!



I guess we will continue to be bored until Cait's show airs. She promises to "do some good" and I'm curious as to what that could be.

 I don't know how much staring out from her Malibu deck I can take. So few transgender people can relate to that, I would think.


----------



## schadenfreude

Staci_W said:


> I use the Oxford comma too.



I do too. My journalism major SO loathes it. We are nerds. Stubborn nerds.


----------



## guccimamma

schadenfreude said:


> I do too. My journalism major SO loathes it. We are nerds. Stubborn nerds.



i had to google it (been out of school for decades). i use it...doesn't everyone?


----------



## Florasun

.


----------



## Florasun

Just kill me now.


The next person who writes Oxford comma has to send me one hundred dollars.


----------



## dangerouscurves

But you do need to use Oxford comma in some sentences, otherwise, people can get confused.


----------



## Jayne1

dangerouscurves said:


> But you do need to use Oxford comma in some sentences, otherwise, people can get confused.


Exactly!


----------



## Florasun

I agree. I am not a serial comma killer.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Florasun said:


> I agree. I am not a serial comma killer.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3054433




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## tweegy

Not sure if this is the correct thread to post this  but:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...essage-celebrates-Independence-Day-woman.html


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> I guess we will continue to be bored until Cait's show airs. She promises to "do some good" and I'm curious as to what that could be.
> 
> I don't know how much staring out from her Malibu deck I can take. So few transgender people can relate to that, I would think.



Her view does look like good feng shui though!


----------



## Jayne1

coach lover too said:


> her view does look like good feng shui though! :d


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Can't wait to see Cait "do some good"[emoji16]


----------



## schadenfreude

guccimamma said:


> i had to google it (been out of school for decades). i use it...doesn't everyone?



Journalism major SO doesn't. It truly pains my soul. How this flaw persisted throughout the Cronkite journalism program and an MBA is truly beyond my comprehension.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Bentley1 said:


> She's dressing ridiculously. I was disgusted with her the minute I saw how she chose to come out on the cover of VF. That set the tone for how she wants to be viewed as a woman and apparently she's always wanted to be a "sex symbol." The potential for that ship sailed 3-4 decades ago.



Agreed.



Florasun said:


> Yes they look better on Cait than they do on Kris. Must be killing Kris.



Sorry you are wrong there.  Cait still looks too manly to pull off any of these looks.  She only looked lovely on FV with a million dollar photographer shooting her.



Bentley1 said:


> As if this thread wasn't nit picky enough, now people are being schooled on grammar. It's like a chore getting through this thread, I swear.
> The grammar discussion is getting old.



You are on point.  Seriously this thread is paining me to read.  Posters seriously stop it with the grammar.  Stop it.



ChanelMommy said:


> Where's the gossip?? Why are we discussing punctuation?



I have no idea.  Seriously wish the mods would delete all these grammar posts so I could catch up on this thread without being bogged down with the unrelated nonsense.  Mods where are you?


----------



## DesigningStyle

OMG.  Caitlyn's twitter post for today:

"Happy 4th of July! Proud to be an American ... where at least I am free to be me."

Yes, everything is all about you Caitlyn.  Me, me, me!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Does anyone here really think as USmagazine is quoted as saying, "Caitlyn Jenner rocks a leopard-print dress while out and about in NYC on June 30", that she rocked this look?

She looks horrid.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I love the dress but would have loved to see a nude heel


----------



## Bentley1

DesigningStyle said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry you are wrong there.  Cait still looks too manly to pull off any of these looks.  She only looked lovely on FV with a million dollar photographer shooting her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are on point.  Seriously this thread is paining me to read.  Posters seriously stop it with the grammar.  Stop it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea.  Seriously wish the mods would delete all these grammar posts so I could catch up on this thread without being bogged down with the unrelated nonsense.  Mods where are you?




I'm guessing the mods prefer some movement in the thread(s) as opposed to dead silence. I can't see why else the grammar and punctuation discussion has been allowed to go on for the past 2 days. 

It's clogging up the thread and many folks are subscribed to the thread and receive notifications only to find it's about grammar as opposed to Cait.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DesigningStyle said:


> OMG.  Caitlyn's twitter post for today:
> 
> "Happy 4th of July! Proud to be an American ... where at least I am free to be me."
> 
> Yes, everything is all about you Caitlyn.  Me, me, me!




She lied. It was NOT free to be her. That had to have cost big bucks!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> I'm guessing the mods prefer some movement in the thread(s) as opposed to dead silence. I can't see why else the grammar and punctuation discussion has been allowed to go on for the past 2 days.
> 
> It's clogging up the thread and many folks are subscribed to the thread and receive notifications only to find it's about grammar as opposed to Cait.




Well I guess to keep on topic we could say: When Mason sees Bruce for the first time, he's gonna say *Is that you grammar!?!*


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> She lied. It was NOT free to be her. That had to have cost big bucks!


----------



## guccimamma

DesigningStyle said:


> OMG.  Caitlyn's twitter post for today:
> 
> "Happy 4th of July! Proud to be an American ... where at least I am free to be me."
> 
> Yes, everything is all about you Caitlyn.  Me, me, me!



that's what our founding fathers had in mind.


----------



## ChanelMommy

No the dress the look all of it is just a no.


----------



## sdkitty

Bentley1 said:


> I'm guessing the mods prefer some movement in the thread(s) as opposed to dead silence. I can't see why else the grammar and punctuation discussion has been allowed to go on for the past 2 days.
> 
> It's clogging up the thread and many folks are subscribed to the thread and receive notifications only to find it's about grammar as opposed to Cait.


I'm thinking since quite a few people seem to be very interested in talking about grammar and punctuation, maybe there should be a grammar subforum.


----------



## V0N1B2

DesigningStyle said:


> Does anyone here really think as USmagazine is quoted as saying, "Caitlyn Jenner rocks a leopard-print dress while out and about in NYC on June 30", that she rocked this look?
> 
> She looks horrid.


You know, I wanted to mention this before but I knew I would be labeled a hater, unkind to transgendered people, or some other assorted bullshizz.
Everyone keeps going on that "Caitlyn looks so happy", but you know what? I don't think she does.  She may be happy on the inside, and good for her, but on the outside? Mmmm nope.  In the photos that have been posted in this thread, most of her looks say "awkward" or "uncomfortable" to me.  
To be frank, she looks like a fish out of water.  
By looks, I don't necessarily mean her outfits or shoe choices, I mean the general way she presents herself.  I don't know if her frozen face is the result of her multiple surgeries or whether or not she is afraid of falling off those "stilettos", but girl looks scared.
If you're going to do the full transition in front of millions of people and schedule daily pap walks, well then girl... you gots to bring it!  *z snap*
Get Miss J on the phone, stat!


*Just to clarify, I'm not saying that isn't a normal feeling for someone going through a transition - it's called a transition for a reason.  I can imagine it's not easy but most normal transgendered people aren't putting their newly acquired selves on display either.  They don't have the luxury of a camera crew following them around while they shop for foundation garments, take their first wobbly steps in high heels, or adapt their golf swing because like OMG you guyz, these boobies are too big! *_cue cutesy girly poutface _ 
Basically it boils down to this: Caitlyn could have quietly gone through her transition, adapted to her new body, emotions, gender etc. and she would have emerged on the other side looking every bit the confident, statuesque, no-facks-given new woman she felt she was meant to be.
But she didn't.  She chose another path.

#lookatme, #nosersyouguyslookatme, #areyoulookingatmeyet, #cryforattention, #wheresmycheque, #mybodyguardishotrawrgrr



Coach Lover Too said:


> Well I guess to keep on topic we could say: When Mason sees Bruce for the first time, he's gonna say *Is that you grammar!?!*


Oh girl, no you di'int


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well I guess to keep on topic we could say: When Mason sees Bruce for the first time, he's gonna say *Is that you grammar!?!*




[emoji28]



sdkitty said:


> I'm thinking since quite a few people seem to be very interested in talking about grammar and punctuation, maybe there should be a grammar subforum.




I think that's a great suggestion! I would possibly participate in it myself from time to time, but not when I'm in the mood for some good ol' gossip. [emoji16]


----------



## Jayne1

You know, for every post about grammar, there is another post about not wanting a grammar lesson in the Cait thread.  The complainers are making the exact same interruptions, but it's not as educational.  

I want to see a real photo of Cait. The ones we see have an odd, smoothing filter to them and we can't see detail.  In other words, the photos I am seeing are extremely flattering and I have a feeling her face is not as flawless as the pictures suggest.


----------



## pjhm

DesigningStyle said:


> OMG.  Caitlyn's twitter post for today:
> 
> "Happy 4th of July! Proud to be an American ... where at least I am free to be me."
> 
> Yes, everything is all about you Caitlyn.  Me, me, me!




She got what she wanted, can't she shut up about it already? Am happy she's happy, but I don't want to hear about it any more. Can she go on with her new life and leave us out of it?


----------



## phemostune

[/B][/B]





pjhm said:


> She got what she wanted, can't she shut up about it already? Am happy she's happy, but I don't want to hear about it any more. Can she go on with her new life and leave us out of it?



*Or you can stay away from Caitlyn's twitter and forum. That way you won't have to see anything.* :censor:


----------



## bisousx

pjhm said:


> She got what she wanted, can't she shut up about it already? Am happy she's happy, but I don't want to hear about it any more. Can she go on with her new life and leave us out of it?



How would you even know about this unless you were following her in some way, shape or form? #nooxfordcomma


----------



## dangerouscurves

I don't mind the distraction, you can only go so far criticizing someone's look before it gets boring. There's an off-topic thread but no one really goes there for some educational discussion. (Shrugs)


----------



## oo_let_me_see

lizmil said:


> Looks like we need a grammar thread. And no one has mention Weird Als grammar song and video.




So funny! My professor in a writing class shared it with us.


----------



## ByeKitty

I don't think she looks horrid (although I prefer my faces less frozen), but I do think her fashion choices are awkward and do nothing for her. I mean really, a sequined miniskirt, in the afternoon, on a 65 year old? I wouldn't even wear that ish. I wish she would relax, and by that I don't mean she should go back to baggy track suits - there's a middle ground. I feel like that would make her more comfortable and therefore more convincing.


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> I don't think she looks horrid (although I prefer my faces less frozen), but I do think her fashion choices are awkward and do nothing for her. *I mean really, a sequined miniskirt, in the afternoon, on a 65 year old? I* wouldn't even wear that ish. I wish she would relax, and by that I don't mean she should go back to baggy track suits - there's a middle ground. I feel like that would make her more comfortable and therefore more convincing.



I think that was a scripted part for her reality show.  Her camera guys showed her walking into the Patricia Field store, looking normal and then walking out, looking Sex and the City-fied.

I bet we see a segment of that on her TV show.  (Doing some good, you know.)


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> I think that was a scripted part for her reality show.  Her camera guys showed her walking into the Patricia Field store, looking normal and then walking out, looking Sex and the City-fied.
> 
> I bet we see a segment of that on her TV show.  (Doing some good, you know.)



Ha yes, I can totally see that. After all this "docu series" is produced by Bunim/Murray, known for scripted and sensationalized reality shows. They don't even know how to make this journey interesting without fabricating shallow storylines.


----------



## schadenfreude

V0N1B2 said:


> You know, I wanted to mention this before but I knew I would be labeled a hater, unkind to transgendered people, or some other assorted bullshizz.
> Everyone keeps going on that "Caitlyn looks so happy", but you know what? I don't think she does.  She may be happy on the inside, and good for her, but on the outside? Mmmm nope.  In the photos that have been posted in this thread, most of her looks say "awkward" or "uncomfortable" to me.
> To be frank, she looks like a fish out of water.
> By looks, I don't necessarily mean her outfits or shoe choices, I mean the general way she presents herself.  I don't know if her frozen face is the result of her multiple surgeries or whether or not she is afraid of falling off those "stilettos", but girl looks scared.
> If you're going to do the full transition in front of millions of people and schedule daily pap walks, well then girl... you gots to bring it!  *z snap*
> Get Miss J on the phone, stat!
> 
> 
> *Just to clarify, I'm not saying that isn't a normal feeling for someone going through a transition - it's called a transition for a reason.  I can imagine it's not easy but most normal transgendered people aren't putting their newly acquired selves on display either.  They don't have the luxury of a camera crew following them around while they shop for foundation garments, take their first wobbly steps in high heels, or adapt their golf swing because like OMG you guyz, these boobies are too big! *_cue cutesy girly poutface _
> Basically it boils down to this: Caitlyn could have quietly gone through her transition, adapted to her new body, emotions, gender etc. and she would have emerged on the other side looking every bit the confident, statuesque, no-facks-given new woman she felt she was meant to be.
> But she didn't.  She chose another path.
> 
> #lookatme, #nosersyouguyslookatme, #areyoulookingatmeyet, #cryforattention, #wheresmycheque, #mybodyguardishotrawrgrr
> 
> 
> Oh girl, no you di'int



You are spot on. She does not look happy or at peace, and you're right, it's impossible to tell how much is because of surgery and how much is because of the new level of crazy her life has become. 

I'm likening her sartorial choices to a young person's choice of alcoholic drinks. Kids drink Jager bombs and Long Islands and vodka Red Bulls because when it's new and exciting to be able to drink they want to be balls in. No class. No sophistication. The sequined rainbow miniskirt is Caitlyn's Four Loko.


----------



## tweegy

V0N1B2 said:


> You know, I wanted to mention this before but I knew I would be labeled a hater, unkind to transgendered people, or some other assorted bullshizz.
> Everyone keeps going on that "Caitlyn looks so happy", but you know what? I don't think she does.  She may be happy on the inside, and good for her, but on the outside? Mmmm nope.  In the photos that have been posted in this thread, most of her looks say "awkward" or "uncomfortable" to me.
> To be frank, she looks like a fish out of water.
> By looks, I don't necessarily mean her outfits or shoe choices, I mean the general way she presents herself.  I don't know if her frozen face is the result of her multiple surgeries or whether or not she is afraid of falling off those "stilettos", but girl looks scared.
> If you're going to do the full transition in front of millions of people and schedule daily pap walks, well then girl... you gots to bring it!  *z snap*
> Get Miss J on the phone, stat!
> 
> 
> *Just to clarify, I'm not saying that isn't a normal feeling for someone going through a transition - it's called a transition for a reason.  I can imagine it's not easy but most normal transgendered people aren't putting their newly acquired selves on display either.  They don't have the luxury of a camera crew following them around while they shop for foundation garments, take their first wobbly steps in high heels, or adapt their golf swing because like OMG you guyz, these boobies are too big! *_cue cutesy girly poutface _
> Basically it boils down to this: Caitlyn could have quietly gone through her transition, adapted to her new body, emotions, gender etc. and she would have emerged on the other side looking every bit the confident, statuesque, no-facks-given new woman she felt she was meant to be.
> But she didn't.  She chose another path.
> 
> #lookatme, #nosersyouguyslookatme, #areyoulookingatmeyet, #cryforattention, #wheresmycheque, #mybodyguardishotrawrgrr
> 
> 
> Oh girl, no you di'int




For me the awkwardness is how she still moves masculine.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Bentley1 said:


> I'm guessing the mods prefer some movement in the thread(s) as opposed to dead silence. I can't see why else the grammar and punctuation discussion has been allowed to go on for the past 2 days.
> 
> It's clogging up the thread and many folks are subscribed to the thread and receive notifications only to find it's about grammar as opposed to Cait.



If a thread runs way off topic, instead of complaining, please report so mods can help. 
Sometimes we are unaware because we are doing other things.
Hard to believe, but it's TRUE! 


:back2topic:


----------



## simone72

I think Caitlyn Jenner is finding herself and that means a lot of experimenting in the fashion area, once she gets over all the thrill and excitement she will probably find her own style


----------



## JetSetGo!

simone72 said:


> I think Caitlyn Jenner is finding herself and that means a lot of experimenting in the fashion area, once she gets over all the thrill and excitement she will probably find her own style



Agree. There is the impression of what a woman dresses like, and then there's what women REALLY dress like. She will likely settle into her own natural style &#8211; or let's hope!


----------



## mrsinsyder

Bentley1 said:


> I'm guessing the mods prefer some movement in the thread(s) as opposed to dead silence. I can't see why else the grammar and punctuation discussion has been allowed to go on for the past 2 days.
> 
> It's clogging up the thread and many folks are subscribed to the thread and receive notifications only to find it's about grammar as opposed to Cait.


LOL, along with two days of feng shui in the Kylie/the other one thread.


----------



## JetSetGo!

mrsinsyder said:


> LOL, along with two days of feng shui in the Kylie/the other one thread.



:back2topic: 2


----------



## Coach Lover Too

For me the awkwardness is how she still moves masculine.

Exactly! The  arms are really  awkward  like she's carting a football instead of a Chanel.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

LOL, along with two days of feng shui in the Kylie/the other one thread.

Good grammar and good pronunciation is good Feng shui.


----------



## Brandless

Coach Lover Too said:


> LOL, along with two days of feng shui in the Kylie/the other one thread.
> 
> Good grammar and good pronunciation is good Feng shui.




Looks like in the Kourtney forum, it's going to be a pacifier thread pretty soon


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Brandless said:


> Looks like in the Kourtney forum, it's going to be a pacifier thread pretty soon



hahahhaha


----------



## JetSetGo!

Coach Lover Too said:


> LOL, along with two days of feng shui in the Kylie/the other one thread.
> 
> Good grammar and good pronunciation is good Feng shui.




:back2topic: 3


----------



## Coach Lover Too

JetSetGo! said:


> :back2topic: 3



Jeez, this makes twice today I've gotten called out. Once for using a meme that said sh*t and now  this. 

Alrighty then, back to topic.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Jeez, this makes twice today I've gotten called out. Once for using a meme that said sh*t and now  this.
> 
> Alrighty then, back to topic.


The threads are more fun when we meander. 

Back to topic -- I still want to see a realistic photo of Cait.


----------



## tweegy

Never pegged her for a smoker. No Judgement.. Just never would have thought she would be one..


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...e-jeans-black-sweater-takes-Porsche-spin.html


----------



## Coach Lover Too

The threads are more fun when we meander. 

Back to topic -- I still want to see a realistic photo of Cait.

Me too! Like *everyday I just woke up* caitlyn!


----------



## addisonshopper

I'm watching rerun of KUWTK from 2012 and looking at Bruce geez it was so obvious he was transitioning.  I think he was waiting for the younger girls to get older .  It doesn't even appear that kris and Bruce were not even intimate.


----------



## dangerouscurves

But why do Caitlyn still have masculine mannerisms? My transgender friends have feminine ones like they're natural to them.


----------



## louvigilante

dangerouscurves said:


> But why do Caitlyn still have masculine mannerisms? My transgender friends have feminine ones like they're natural to them.




Perhaps it's due to age? She spent 65 years as a male, and a jock at that. Maybe it's harder for her to drop those mannerisms?Just a guess.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I doubt it. It's not like he hasn't had years to practice. He even admitted to going out dressed as a female before he actually  came out.


----------



## dangerouscurves

louvigilante said:


> Perhaps it's due to age? She spent 65 years as a male, and a jock at that. Maybe it's harder for her to drop those mannerisms?Just a guess.




It could be. But even gay men have this feminine gait, old or young. This is probably for some of us here he looks like a man in women's clothes.


----------



## mrsinsyder

dangerouscurves said:


> It could be. But even gay men have this feminine gait, old or young. This is probably for some of us here he looks like a man in women's clothes.


I won't get too far off-topic but generalizing gay men is just like generalizing straight men, they're all different.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner may be indulging her new shopping hobby now she's living openly as a woman, but the 65-year-old reality star is still enjoying her old pastimes too.

The former Olympian - previously known as Bruce - was spotted enjoying a drive in her flashy Porsche 911 GT3 RS sports car on Friday.

While she opted for a dressier wardrobe during a trip to New York earlier in the week, for the leisurely weekend drive, Caitlyn went casual in a pair of jeans and a black sweater.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...sweater-takes-Porsche-spin.html#ixzz3f88sl5yE


----------



## dangerouscurves

mrsinsyder said:


> I won't get too far off-topic but generalizing gay men is just like generalizing straight men, they're all different.




You're right. My best friend, who is gay, is very masculine.


----------



## mrsinsyder

is she taking a selfie?


----------



## Tivo

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner may be indulging her new shopping hobby now she's living openly as a woman, but the 65-year-old reality star is still enjoying her old pastimes too.
> 
> The former Olympian - previously known as Bruce - was spotted enjoying a drive in her flashy Porsche 911 GT3 RS sports car on Friday.
> 
> While she opted for a dressier wardrobe during a trip to New York earlier in the week, for the leisurely weekend drive, Caitlyn went casual in a pair of jeans and a black sweater.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...sweater-takes-Porsche-spin.html#ixzz3f88sl5yE


Oh, Bruce. Get your life together.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Is that a ciggie?? Gonna need a touch up on wrinkles if she's not careful..


----------



## Yoshi1296

Jesus she has a really nice car.


----------



## Jayne1

Still smokes in a less than feminine way:







Can't have it both ways, Cait.  One minute you're courting the paps, the next minute you're blocking your face.


----------



## shiny_things

tweegy said:


> Never pegged her for a smoker. No Judgement.. Just never would have thought she would be one..
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...e-jeans-black-sweater-takes-Porsche-spin.html



Nor did I. It's just not something you think of when you think of athletes or ex-athletes.
Glad to see a bit of casual style. Seems to be simple and flattering. The K's could learn a thing or two.


----------



## VickyB

The envelope she's holding up is addressed to Burt Jenner. That's her eldest, right?


----------



## ChanelMommy

Jayne1 said:


> Still smokes in a less than feminine way:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't have it both ways, Cait.  One minute you're courting the paps, the next minute you're blocking your face.



Woah


----------



## ChanelMommy

mrsinsyder said:


> is she taking a selfie?
> 
> View attachment 3056093



Lmao


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I remember around the Diane Sawyer interview she (or at that time was it still he?) was mad because paps got a pic of her outside of her home. She was smoking then. 

She had a black and white dress on.


----------



## knasarae

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I remember around the Diane Sawyer interview she (or at that time was it still he?) was mad because paps got a pic of her outside of her home. She was smoking then.
> 
> She had a black and white dress on.



I remember that.  It was like a long, lounge dress right?


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

knasarae said:


> I remember that.  It was like a long, lounge dress right?




Yep! Think so!


----------



## tweegy

shiny_things said:


> Nor did I. It's just not something you think of when you think of athletes or ex-athletes.
> Glad to see a bit of casual style. Seems to be simple and flattering. The K's could learn a thing or two.



Yeh, same here. And he seemed pretty disgusted when he caught one of the younger girls 'smoking' on the show. 

It's surprising to me cause he always seemed so traditional on the show.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

I assumed her skin was so awful because of smoking.


----------



## bag-mania

Jayne1 said:


> Can't have it both ways, Cait.  One minute you're courting the paps, the next minute you're blocking your face.



We're talking about someone who wants to have complete control over how the media displays the new persona. Impossible, of course, but that's what is happening.


----------



## yajaira

this is hilarious!


----------



## littlerock

VickyB said:


> The envelope she's holding up is addressed to Burt Jenner. That's her eldest, right?



Yes


----------



## Coach Lover Too

That cigarette is bad feng shui. Just sayin'.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> That cigarette is bad feng shui. Just sayin'.


----------



## grand_duchess

mrsinsyder said:


> is she taking a selfie?
> 
> View attachment 3056093



Killing a person wasn't enough to teach him to not mess with his phone while driving. Ugh.


----------



## schadenfreude

Jayne1 said:


> Still smokes in a less than feminine way:



Yes. I'm sorry. This looks ridiculous.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

schadenfreude said:


> Yes. I'm sorry. This looks ridiculous.




I agree! I'm more worried about Bruce/Caitlyn with a cigarette in her mouth than I am about Penelope with a pacifier in hers!


----------



## pursegrl12

Bruce always smoked


----------



## Jayne1

pursegrl12 said:


> Bruce always smoked



True.


----------



## guccimamma

this is just so stupid.

i don't like who he has become, and it has nothing to do with gender.


----------



## chowlover2

guccimamma said:


> this is just so stupid.
> 
> i don't like who he has become, and it has nothing to do with gender.




Agreed! It's like he's trying to out K the K's!

I think he is in a position to do a great deal of good, but it looks like he is going to squander it. 

I could be wrong, but I still think Chaz Bono is the gold standard for this issue. When Caitlyn starts putting money towards LGBT issues, and not merely using them as photo ops will I be convinced.


----------



## ChanelMommy

guccimamma said:


> this is just so stupid.
> 
> i don't like who he has become, and it has nothing to do with gender.



I sorta agree.


----------



## pjhm

chowlover2 said:


> Agreed! It's like he's trying to out K the K's!
> 
> I think he is in a position to do a great deal of good, but it looks like he is going to squander it.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I still think Chaz Bono is the gold standard for this issue. When Caitlyn starts putting money towards LGBT issues, and not merely using them as photo ops will I be convinced.




I read Chaz's book- he definitely is the Gold standard in the public eye and out


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

So am I going to be waiting a while to see Cait "Do some good"? Le sigh...[emoji17]


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

guccimamma said:


> this is just so stupid.
> 
> i don't like who he has become, and it has nothing to do with gender.



+1. Bruce was going on in that interview about wanting to live his new life as a woman quietly and away from the glare of the media. Now, all Caitlyn is doing is courting the cameras. So which is it?


----------



## chowlover2

Babydoll Chanel said:


> +1. Bruce was going on in that interview about wanting to live his new life as a woman quietly and away from the glare of the media. Now, all Caitlyn is doing is courting the cameras. So which is it?




It's as if she was jealous of all the attention the females got, and now has to one up them. What Caitlyn says and what she goes seems to be 2 very different things. The LGBT things she has been seen doing seem to be for the show. Has she lined up any speeches? The Sawyer interview was in May, and filmed long before that, plenty of time to speak to LGBT youth and make an impact. 

This past weekend marked the 14th year there was a 4 day event for the LGBT community in Philly. I was waiting to see if she would show up, but I guess there aren't enough paps in Philly, or we weren't deemed glamorous enough for Caitlyn.


----------



## tweegy

Well, her face in the latest preview of her show is ummm....something else..


----------



## missmoimoi

coach lover too said:


> is that a ciggie?? Gonna need a touch up on wrinkles if she's not careful..




+1


----------



## Jayne1

tweegy said:


> Well, her face in the latest preview of her show is ummm....something else..



I don't think I have ever picked apart someone's natural face or build. I find beauty in the natural, even if it's not an ideal look.

Cait, in her new promo is shouting to a group of young people, "we are all beautiful!" which I find hypocritical considering the hundreds of thousands of dollars she spent to change her face.

I know she had to change a few things (Adam's apple, maybe the jaw, maybe implants) but she was excessive, especially in the Botox and fillers, so what message is she giving these kids?


----------



## bag-mania

Jayne1 said:


> I know she had to change a few things (Adam's  apple, maybe the jaw, maybe implants) but she was excessive, especially  in the Botox and fillers, *so what message is she giving these kids?*



Do as I say (not as I do).

It's not like any kid is really going to look to Caitlyn Jenner for a life lesson.


----------



## tweegy

Jayne1 said:


> I don't think I have ever picked apart someone's natural face or build. I find beauty in the natural, even if it's not an ideal look.
> 
> 
> 
> Cait, in her new promo is shouting to a group of young people, "we are all beautiful!" which I find hypocritical considering the hundreds of thousands of dollars she spent to change her face.
> 
> 
> 
> I know she had to change a few things (Adam's apple, maybe the jaw, maybe implants) but she was excessive, especially in the Botox and fillers, so what message is she giving these kids?




Perhaps she meant internally beautiful?

But i was [emoji53] when I saw the preview come on.


----------



## Jayne1

bag-mania said:


> Do as I say (not as I do).
> 
> It's not like any kid is really going to look to Caitlyn Jenner for a life lesson.


True, but I can't help thinking she wants them to look at her for life lessons. She wants to do some good.


----------



## VickyB

Jayne1 said:


> I don't think I have ever picked apart someone's natural face or build. I find beauty in the natural, even if it's not an ideal look.
> 
> Cait, in her new promo is shouting to a group of young people, "we are all beautiful!" which I find hypocritical considering the hundreds of thousands of dollars she spent to change her face.
> 
> I know she had to change a few things (Adam's apple, maybe the jaw, maybe implants) but she was excessive, especially in the Botox and fillers, so what message is she giving these kids?



ACK! I literally gasped when I saw the 1st pic.  That is one uber scary photo. What a waste of money.


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> I don't think I have ever picked apart someone's natural face or build. I find beauty in the natural, even if it's not an ideal look.
> 
> 
> 
> Cait, in her new promo is shouting to a group of young people, "we are all beautiful!" which I find hypocritical considering the hundreds of thousands of dollars she spent to change her face.
> 
> 
> 
> I know she had to change a few things (Adam's apple, maybe the jaw, maybe implants) but she was excessive, especially in the Botox and fillers, so what message is she giving these kids?




Frightening! 

I am guessing if you transition early you have a better result? I've seen pics of several transgender women and they are gorgeous. Of course the excessive sunning and smoking don't help one's looks either.


----------



## zippie

Yikes, so off the charts disturbing.


----------



## guccimamma

i would think at 65 the whole "look at me" phase would be tempered...obviously not.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

guccimamma said:


> i would think at 65 the whole "look at me" phase would be tempered...obviously not.




Well since Caitlyn is only a month old that's when they need the most attention lol.


----------



## guccimamma

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Well since Caitlyn is only a month old that's when they need the most attention lol.



good one!


----------



## Freckles1

I still can't believe she is getting the Arthur Ash award


----------



## DC-Cutie

Freckles1 said:


> I still can't believe she is getting the Arthur Ash award


 
+1


I watched a snipet of the new show and Caitlyn is still in pain from her facial procedures, you can tell when she talks.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> this is just so stupid.
> 
> i don't like who he has become, and it has nothing to do with gender.



Ditto. I still think we're being scammed.


----------



## DesigningStyle

dangerouscurves said:


> But why do Caitlyn still have masculine mannerisms? My transgender friends have feminine ones like they're natural to them.



I have no idea.  I would think that if Caitlyn is taking the female hormones that the mannerisms would become feminized.  Can you ask your trans friends.  I would love to hear their response to your question.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Freckles1 said:


> I still can't believe she is getting the Arthur Ash award



Omg me either. I was in shock when I heard that. I love ESPN during football season but I'm <this> close to boycotting that channel now!


----------



## dangerouscurves

DesigningStyle said:


> I have no idea.  I would think that if Caitlyn is taking the female hormones that the mannerisms would become feminized.  Can you ask your trans friends.  I would love to hear their response to your question.




Will do!


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> Omg me either. I was in shock when I heard that. I love ESPN during football season but I'm <this> close to boycotting that channel now!




Me neither [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. Just pulling your leg [emoji14][emoji14][emoji14]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

dangerouscurves said:


> Me neither [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. Just pulling your leg [emoji14][emoji14][emoji14]


----------



## DesigningStyle

Jayne1 said:


> I don't think I have ever picked apart someone's natural face or build. I find beauty in the natural, even if it's not an ideal look.
> 
> Cait, in her new promo is shouting to a group of young people, "we are all beautiful!" which I find hypocritical considering the hundreds of thousands of dollars she spent to change her face.
> 
> I know she had to change a few things (Adam's apple, maybe the jaw, maybe implants) but she was excessive, especially in the Botox and fillers, so what message is she giving these kids?



That profile is unusual.  What did the surgeon do?


----------



## Encore Hermes

I read that part of the whole surgical procedure if one opts for all of it, (in general, not specific to Jenner) is shaving down the brow bone. I think they also shave a lot of bone in the jaw region in addition to 'traditional' PS procedures like eye lift etc. 

The pain must be something else.


----------



## VickyB

DC-Cutie said:


> +1
> 
> 
> I watched a snipet of the new show and Caitlyn is still in pain from her facial procedures, you can tell when she talks.



Her speech was almost slurred in the Sawyer interview. Almost like she was sucking on a candy. I'm guessing dental work ie capped teeth or veneers.


----------



## Jayne1

DesigningStyle said:


> That profile is unusual.  What did the surgeon do?


Was this recent nose job necessary. Her nostrils are odd.  One of her older nose jobs would work beautifully for a woman's face, I think.

At some point, it will get too small to function. I can't believe a surgeon agreed to make it this much smaller and turned  up.


----------



## guccimamma

i think she's in the early stages of alzheimers.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Wow that side view of her face. The inflated lips and cheeks. Eek.


----------



## tweegy

Caitlyn Jenner: I "Totally Isolated Myself From The Trans Community"

Posted on Mon Jul 6th, 2015 11:25am PDT       By X17 Staff



We love that she's an open book these days!

Caitlyn Jenner is gearing up for the premiere of her docuseries I Am Cait, and the Olympian is speaking out in a new WhoSay op-ed about the responsibility she feels raising awareness of trans issues as the most famous face of the community. 

"Up until now, I have totally isolated myself from the transgender community so I have a lot of catching up to do. I feel such a responsibility to this courageous group to try to get it right and tell all sides of the story. To me, that's always the biggest question: am I doing it right?" she explained in the lengthy piece.

The reality star made a very public appearance in NYC during Pride weekend, and made fast friends with some of her fellow trans community members at an intimate dinner. "I went around the table and asked each of them how long it had been since their transitions. One said 20 years, the other one said 15 years ago . . . seven years ago . . . three years ago. . . They came around to me and I said, 'Two weeks,'" she recalled. 

"Flash forward a few weeks and I've already learned so much about this community, the issues, and the people involved. It's been an eye-opening experience for me &#8212; mainly realizing how fortunate I am. Seeing how my new friends have overcome their adversities is such an inspiration. They are so well-adjusted and smart. . . . They are just like you and me," she concluded. 

She is doing so much good in the world!
Comments
Links: Caitlyn Jenner

Read more at http://www.x17online.com/page2#jStKb6q1rW1dwZxZ.99


----------



## AEGIS

Coach Lover Too said:


> Omg me either. I was in shock when I heard that. I love ESPN during football season but I'm <this> close to boycotting that channel now!



well it's gonna be on ABC this year


----------



## AEGIS

tweegy said:


> Caitlyn Jenner: I "Totally Isolated Myself From The Trans Community"
> 
> Posted on Mon Jul 6th, 2015 11:25am PDT       By X17 Staff
> 
> 
> 
> We love that she's an open book these days!
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner is gearing up for the premiere of her docuseries I Am Cait, and the Olympian is speaking out in a new WhoSay op-ed about the responsibility she feels raising awareness of trans issues as the most famous face of the community.
> 
> "Up until now, I have totally isolated myself from the transgender community so I have a lot of catching up to do. I feel such a responsibility to this courageous group to try to get it right and tell all sides of the story. To me, that's always the biggest question: am I doing it right?" she explained in the lengthy piece.
> 
> The reality star made a very public appearance in NYC during Pride weekend, and made fast friends with some of her fellow trans community members at an intimate dinner. "I went around the table and asked each of them how long it had been since their transitions. One said 20 years, the other one said 15 years ago . . . seven years ago . . . three years ago. . . They came around to me and I said, 'Two weeks,'" she recalled.
> 
> "Flash forward a few weeks and I've already learned so much about this community, the issues, and the people involved. It's been an eye-opening experience for me  mainly realizing how fortunate I am. Seeing how my new friends have overcome their adversities is such an inspiration. They are so well-adjusted and smart. . . . They are just like you and me," she concluded.
> 
> She is doing so much good in the world!
> Comments
> Links: Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> Read more at http://www.x17online.com/page2#jStKb6q1rW1dwZxZ.99



My dh told me about this and said he really respected this and I must say I do too.


----------



## krissa

She did an exclusive interview with a pap company that's in bed with the Kardashians?!?


----------



## littlerock

DesigningStyle said:


> I have no idea.  I would think that if Caitlyn is taking the female hormones that the mannerisms would become feminized.  Can you ask your trans friends.  I would love to hear their response to your question.





dangerouscurves said:


> Will do!



I think it's because most people transition earlier in life, and have decades to master the more feminine mannerisms, or at the very least, don't have 7 decades of masqueline mannersisms working against them. It's habit by now. You can't break 70 years of habit overnight, although, I assume She's trying.


----------



## DC-Cutie

krissa said:


> She did an exclusive interview with a pap company that's in bed with the Kardashians?!?




They are all in bed with the paps.  While I wanted to think Bruce was going to take the high road as Caitlyn, he's doing the same famewhoring as his family.


----------



## Jayne1

tweegy said:


> Caitlyn Jenner: I "Totally Isolated Myself From The Trans Community"
> 
> Posted on Mon Jul 6th, 2015 11:25am PDT       By X17 Staff
> 
> 
> 
> We love that she's an open book these days!
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner is gearing up for the premiere of her docuseries I Am Cait, and the Olympian is speaking out in a new WhoSay op-ed about the responsibility she feels raising awareness of trans issues as the most famous face of the community.
> 
> "Up until now, I have totally isolated myself from the transgender community so I have a lot of catching up to do. I feel such a responsibility to this courageous group to try to get it right and tell all sides of the story. To me, that's always the biggest question: am I doing it right?" she explained in the lengthy piece.
> 
> The reality star made a very public appearance in NYC during Pride weekend, and made fast friends with some of her fellow trans community members at an intimate dinner. "I went around the table and asked each of them how long it had been since their transitions. One said 20 years, the other one said 15 years ago . . . seven years ago . . . three years ago. . . They came around to me and I said, 'Two weeks,'" she recalled.
> 
> "Flash forward a few weeks and I've already learned so much about this community, the issues, and the people involved. It's been an eye-opening experience for me  mainly realizing how fortunate I am. Seeing how my new friends have overcome their adversities is such an inspiration. They are so well-adjusted and smart. . . . They are just like you and me," she concluded.
> 
> She is doing so much good in the world!
> Comments
> Links: Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> Read more at http://www.x17online.com/page2#jStKb6q1rW1dwZxZ.99



So now she's jumping on the bandwagon, years after these women, who were so brave, who were the true pioneers and probably had fewer resources, but nevertheless, paved the way.... yet Cait is getting all the attention and the pay cheque that goes with the attention?


----------



## chowlover2

Encore Hermes said:


> I read that part of the whole surgical procedure if one opts for all of it, (in general, not specific to Jenner) is shaving down the brow bone. I think they also shave a lot of bone in the jaw region in addition to 'traditional' PS procedures like eye lift etc.
> 
> The pain must be something else.




I don't think as much pain as you might think. Within the last year I had 3 vertebrae fused and 2 discs replaced, all using bone from my pelvis. The Dr originally thought they would have to drill, that's the painful part, but they were able to scrap all the bone needed, and that's a lot of bone. No pain at all. The marrow is the excruciating part of the bone causing pain when there is a break.  Shaving should not cause too much pain save for the soft tissue damage. I think an eyelid lift would cause more pain. IMO.


----------



## jun3machina

NPR today said she/he was auctioning off his/her trophies...I kept waiting for 'proceeds to go to transgender chariry' but then I remembered her family. I know transgendered people. And this whole deal just doesn't seem kosher to me.


----------



## Lounorada

I think Bruces face looked more feminine than Caitlyns. All these extra facial PS procedures have destroyed her face, not improved it.
She looked simply terrifying in the pictures posted on here today.


----------



## Jayne1

Lounorada said:


> I think Bruces face looked more feminine than Caitlyns. All these extra facial PS procedures have destroyed her face, not improved it.
> She looked simply terrifying in the pictures posted on here today.



Yes, he was _pretty_ handsome.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, he was _pretty_ handsome.



OMg, NOW that's the Bruce I remember! Rawr!


----------



## ForeverYoung87

krissa said:


> She did an exclusive interview with a pap company that's in bed with the Kardashians?!?



No x17 took it from a post on her website
http://www.whosay.com/l/FHAaLUa


----------



## VickyB

lounorada said:


> i think bruces face looked more feminine than caitlyns. All these extra facial ps procedures have destroyed her face, not improved it.
> She looked simply terrifying in the pictures posted on here today.



ita


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

The problem is her face was already destroyed from excessive ps. If she had transitioned with her original face she would look worlds better.


----------



## tweegy

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> The problem is her face was already destroyed from excessive ps. If she had transitioned with her original face she would look worlds better.



Agreed


----------



## Lounorada

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> The problem is her face was already destroyed from excessive ps. If she had transitioned with her original face she would look worlds better.




Exactly.


----------



## krissa

ForeverYoung87 said:


> No x17 took it from a post on her website
> http://www.whosay.com/l/FHAaLUa



Ahhh okay.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Yeah I think Caitlyn looks way better now than 80s-10s Bruce.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm not sure where to put this, but this interview with Brody Jenner is very refreshing!
His disdain for the Kardashians is obvious and his love for his little sisters is really sweet.

*Brody  Jenner On His Relationship With His &#8220;Dad&#8221; Caitlyn, Not Knowing the Sex  of Kim&#8217;s New Baby & How He&#8217;s Only Met Kanye Once

https://www.yahoo.com/style/brody-jenner-on-his-relationship-with-his-dad-123473731918.html
*


----------



## StopHammertime

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm not sure where to put this, but this interview with Brody Jenner is very refreshing!
> His disdain for the Kardashians is obvious and his love for his little sisters is really sweet.
> 
> *Brody  Jenner On His Relationship With His Dad Caitlyn, Not Knowing the Sex  of Kims New Baby & How Hes Only Met Kanye Once
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/style/brody-jenner-on-his-relationship-with-his-dad-123473731918.html
> *




I have always liked Brody. 
I read the article, have I missed something? Did Kourtney and Scott get married and I just missed it? This is not the first arcticle that refers to 'Kourtney and her husband'.


----------



## bag-mania

StopHammertime said:


> I have always liked Brody.
> I read the article, have I missed something? Did Kourtney and Scott get married and I just missed it? This is not the first arcticle that refers to 'Kourtney and her husband'.



I don't think they ever married. Just sloppy writing, using the term husband instead of partner or long-term boyfriend.


----------



## guccimamma

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, he was _pretty_ handsome.



 it is difficult for me to embrace all of this, bruce jenner was everywhere in the 70s, when i was a little kid. he was the man.

...but then again, so was oj

his new gender doesn't bother me as much as the self-promoting hoopla.


----------



## lovemysavior

bag-mania said:


> I don't think they ever married. Just sloppy writing, using the term husband instead of partner or long-term boyfriend.











StopHammertime said:


> I have always liked Brody.
> I read the article, have I missed something? Did Kourtney and Scott get married and I just missed it? This is not the first arcticle that refers to 'Kourtney and her husband'.



Even Giuliana from E news kept saying her husband then finally corrected herself. I mean aren't they all family these E network people to know if they're married or not? 

As for Caitlin,  I don't see her happy/free like she claims. Her candid shots show a void in her eyes. Like something that no plastic surgery or transition will never fix for her.  Just sayin...the way I see it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

lovemysavior said:


> Even Giuliana from E news kept saying her husband then finally corrected herself. I mean aren't they all family these E network people to know if they're married or not?
> 
> *As for Caitlin,  I don't see her happy/free like she claims. Her candid shots show a void in her eyes. Like something that no plastic surgery or transition will never fix for her.  Just sayin...the way I see it.*


 

Exactly. You know how excited you are when you purchase a new car or house/etc and after a while the new wears off? That's what I predict is going to happen. It's just a matter of time before she decides it's not all it's cracked up to be. (at least that's my opinion)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm more confused than ever. Brody said on his latest interview that Caitlyn likes women, so does that mean she's a lesbian or what!? Honestly, I just don't get it.


----------



## Antonia

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm more confused than ever. Brody said on his latest interview that Caitlyn likes women, so does that mean she's a lesbian or what!? Honestly, I just don't get it.



I'm confused too!  He did say in the D. Sawyer interview that he still loves women (even though he sort of avoided eye contact with Diane when he answered the question) but then in a later interview on the KUWTK they talked about how once he changes over his feelings may change.  Time will tell!!


----------



## Florasun

Antonia said:


> I'm confused too!  He did say in the D. Sawyer interview that he still loves women (even though he sort of avoided eye contact with Diane when he answered the question) but then in a later interview on the KUWTK they talked about how once he changes over his feelings may change.  Time will tell!!



On the KUWTK episode 'About Bruce', I got the impression that he was not telling the complete truth while talking with Kris. And I hate the way he intersperses every couple of sentences with "Okay?"


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn Jenner exudes confidence and power in the long, black gown she donned in the first promo pic for _I Am Cait_, the E! docu-series following the Olympian's life post-transition. 

The photo follows Tuesday's debut of a new video promo for the series. 

Jenner, 65, is also documenting her new life with a series of blogs at WhoSay.com. In the first post, she discussed getting to know other members of the transgender community.  

"Seeing how my new friends have overcome their adversities is  such an inspiration. They are so well-adjusted and smart," Jenner wrote.  "I'll be sharing their stories here in the coming weeks, and I can't  wait for you to get to know them. They are just like you and me." 

http://www.people.com/article/caitlyn-jenner-black-dress-photo-i-am-cait


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Florasun said:


> On the KUWTK episode 'About Bruce', I got the impression that he was not telling the complete truth while talking with Kris. *And I hate the way he intersperses every couple of sentences with "Okay?"*



That drives me nuts too!


----------



## blackkitty4378

For those who were wondering about Caitlyn's masculine mannerisms, I found a very interesting perspective on why men and women have different mannerisms because of their anatomy and hormones. It's Yahoo Answers, but still, it makes sense scientifically. It's the "Best Answer" (first one):

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090524202903AAPfWzR



> Some behaviors are instinctual, while others are learned. Yawning is an example. Virtually everyone yawns the same way, even animals, and that is instinctual, but covering ones mouth while yawning is learned.
> 
> The differences in mannerisms between men and women depend on a variety of things. Some things are due to the physical differences between men and women. For example, swinging ones hips while walking is a result of the different weight distribution and pelvic angle in females. Because of this, women have a tendency to naturally arch their backs a bit more than men, which results in the chest and buttocks protruding a bit more, and the shoulders being pushed back a bit more. This then results in the female tendency to swing the arms more "behind" the body when walking, as opposed to "in front" of the body. If a developing male skeleton is not subjected to androgens in the proper amount, or at the proper time, it could result in a tendency towards a more female orientation.
> 
> Women typically hold their arms above their waists when running, gesturing, etc. Some of this is for balance (the female center of gravity is lower, so holding the arms higher helps balance), and some is due to the angle at which the forearm is attached to the elbow joint. This is also the reason why girls "throw like girls" and tend to hold the steering wheel at the top, as opposed to the sides. The evolutionary reason for this is to enable the female to comfortably hold an infant to her breast. It also explains why women tend to put their hands on their hips with the thumbs facing back, as opposed to forward.
> 
> Women tend to have better manual dexterity than men. Over millions of years smaller, more dexterous fingers, hands, etc would be an advantage when trying to gather food, or care for a small infant. Some homosexual men have this inherent physical characteristic. Some do not. Again, it is a consequence of hormonal exposure.
> 
> Psychological tendencies are much more difficult to explain. The female brain is predisposed towards language and communication. Women speak more clearly, with better enunciation and diction than men. This could explain why some homosexual men speak more like women. Physical hand gestures when speaking are closely tied to the ability to communicate effectively, so this could also correlate. Attitude, *****iness and materialism are far too vague to speculate on.
> 
> Essentially, it all has to do with prenatal exposure to hormones, when and how much. The characteristics found in male and female, heterosexual, homosexual, transsexual, effeminate, feminine and masculine all fall in ranges and combinations which result in all the various spectra we find within the genders. Learned behavior augments (or discourages) to a degree, but probably can't effect that which is set in the womb.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Caitlyn Jenner exudes confidence and power in the long, black gown she donned in the first promo pic for _I Am Cait_, the E! docu-series following the Olympian's life post-transition.
> 
> The photo follows Tuesday's debut of a new video promo for the series.
> 
> Jenner, 65, is also documenting her new life with a series of blogs at WhoSay.com. In the first post, she discussed getting to know other members of the transgender community.
> 
> "Seeing how my new friends have overcome their adversities is  such an inspiration. They are so well-adjusted and smart," Jenner wrote.  "I'll be sharing their stories here in the coming weeks, and I can't  wait for you to get to know them. They are just like you and me."
> 
> http://www.people.com/article/caitlyn-jenner-black-dress-photo-i-am-cait



Her professional photos don't look anything like her. This picture and the Vanity Fair photos are beautiful. She looks more like a blow up doll with her inflated lips and cheeks in real life.


----------



## Luvbolide

V0N1B2 said:


> I want to know when Caitlyn is going back to California to play at her Sherwood Country Club.
> Surely, she'll get bored of living this "Sex and the City" fantasy soon, won't she?
> 
> I'm curious as to whether or not she will petition to be allowed in the men's area that she has used for the last fifteen years.  I wonder how she will feel about not being allowed to play golf on certain days and/or times because she now identifies as a woman?   Will she enjoy having to use the women's only area of her club which does not have the same benefits of the men's only part of the club?
> Curious to hear how she will respond to the sexual discrimination at her "old boys club".
> 
> I only ask because I have been to these types of clubs, and while both men and women pay the same initiation fees as well as monthy dues and spend the requisite number of dollars in the food & beverage areas, they are not entitled to the same perks and/or treatment.
> ^^^ yes, that was a run-on sentence, thank you.






Been asking this myself - and wondering if she will find the club's policies to be something up with which she will not put...


----------



## Luvbolide

Coach Lover Too said:


> Exactly. You know how excited you are when you purchase a new car or house/etc and after a while the new wears off? That's what I predict is going to happen. It's just a matter of time before she decides it's not all it's cracked up to be. (at least that's my opinion)





I may be over-reading this, or it may be all of the bad ps, but to me she exudes a desperation.  Not a relaxed sense of freedom but a notice-me, talk-about-me type of feeling.  It feels very artificial and stilted.  Maybe I just don't like her personality and how this entire transition is being handled.   Why not participate in the recent Pride celebrations instead of being filmed watching them.  Or go talk to youth groups - privately and without a camera crew.  Everything she has done is about her and getting her new face and new boobs plastered everywhere.  Ugh...


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Luvbolide said:


> I may be over-reading this, or it may be all of the bad ps, but to me she exudes a desperation.  Not a relaxed sense of freedom but a notice-me, talk-about-me type of feeling.  It feels very artificial and stilted.  Maybe I just don't like her personality and how this entire transition is being handled.   Why not participate in the recent Pride celebrations instead of being filmed watching them.  Or go talk to youth groups - privately and without a camera crew.  Everything she has done is about her and getting her new face and new boobs plastered everywhere.  Ugh...



This, all day long.


----------



## Saviola

I'm sorry, but a 65 year old woman doesn't need to be showing her legs like that, male or not. Wear some damn pantyhose and a longer skirt, I'm repulsed. (Referring to the mini skirt).


----------



## Bentley1

Luvbolide said:


> I may be over-reading this, or it may be all of the bad ps, but to me she exudes a desperation.  Not a relaxed sense of freedom but a notice-me, talk-about-me type of feeling.  It feels very artificial and stilted.  Maybe I just don't like her personality and how this entire transition is being handled.   Why not participate in the recent Pride celebrations instead of being filmed watching them.  Or go talk to youth groups - privately and without a camera crew.  Everything she has done is about her and getting her new face and new boobs plastered everywhere.  Ugh...




Yes. Definitely agree with all of this. 

The narcissism and thirst is real with Ms. Caitlyn.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bentley1 said:


> yes. Definitely agree with all of this.
> 
> The narcissism and thirst is real with ms. Caitlyn.



+1


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm more confused than ever. Brody said on his latest interview that Caitlyn likes women, so does that mean she's a lesbian or what!? Honestly, I just don't get it.


If she continues to be attracted to women (I've heard sexual orientation can change under the influence of hormone treatments) then yes, she's a lesbian.



Luvbolide said:


> I may be over-reading this, or it may be all of the bad ps, but to me she exudes a desperation.  Not a relaxed sense of freedom but a notice-me, talk-about-me type of feeling.  It feels very artificial and stilted.  Maybe I just don't like her personality and how this entire transition is being handled.   Why not participate in the recent Pride celebrations instead of being filmed watching them.  Or go talk to youth groups - privately and without a camera crew.  Everything she has done is about her and getting her new face and new boobs plastered everywhere.  Ugh...


I totally agree with this, I don't know who her publicist is but they're doing an awful job. Her recent appearances have made her come across as a self-absorbed Kardashian rather than an inspirational activist. I have said this before, but I don't like how they presented her as a type of "sexpot" from the get-go. No, you don't need to walk around half naked to be taken seriously as a woman.


----------



## Lounorada

Luvbolide said:


> I may be over-reading this, or it may be all of the bad ps, but to me she exudes a desperation.  Not a relaxed sense of freedom but a notice-me, talk-about-me type of feeling.  It feels very artificial and stilted.  Maybe I just don't like her personality and how this entire transition is being handled.   Why not participate in the recent Pride celebrations instead of being filmed watching them.  Or go talk to youth groups - privately and without a camera crew.  Everything she has done is about her and getting her new face and new boobs plastered everywhere.  Ugh...



I totally agree.



Bentley1 said:


> Yes. Definitely agree with all of this.
> *
> The narcissism and thirst is real with Ms. Caitlyn*.



This.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Luvbolide said:


> Been asking this myself - and wondering if she will find the club's policies to be something up with which she will not put...



It will be interesting if she addresses the inequalities. However, when she was considered a man by society, she was comfortable  joining the club knowing these policy differences.


----------



## Luvbolide

Encore Hermes said:


> It will be interesting if she addresses the inequalities. However, when she was considered a man by society, she was comfortable  joining the club knowing these policy differences.




Absolutely she was comfortable with it - I am sure she enjoyed countless hours hanging at the club with the guys.  I actually think she will be stunned to realize that as a woman she will no longer be welcome by club rules.  And I fully expect that she would try to seek some sort of waiver for herself, not taking the bolder step of opening dialogue about whether or not some of the club's rules should be relaxed or discarded to permit women to enjoy more of the facilities.  

She is reveling in the media frenzy, but I fear she has not given thought to the real issues and difficulties faced by transgender people and women in society - she is all about tight clothes, short skirts and swanning around posing for the paps.  Everything is so superficial and revolves around Cait, Cait, Cait...


----------



## VickyB

Bentley1 said:


> Yes. Definitely agree with all of this.
> 
> The narcissism and thirst is real with Ms. Caitlyn.



Yes.


----------



## mama13drama99

V0N1B2 said:


> You know, I wanted to mention this before but I knew I would be labeled a hater, unkind to transgendered people, or some other assorted bullshizz.
> Everyone keeps going on that "Caitlyn looks so happy", but you know what? I don't think she does.  She may be happy on the inside, and good for her, but on the outside? Mmmm nope.  In the photos that have been posted in this thread, most of her looks say "awkward" or "uncomfortable" to me.
> To be frank, she looks like a fish out of water.
> By looks, I don't necessarily mean her outfits or shoe choices, I mean the general way she presents herself.  I don't know if her frozen face is the result of her multiple surgeries or whether or not she is afraid of falling off those "stilettos", but girl looks scared.
> If you're going to do the full transition in front of millions of people and schedule daily pap walks, well then girl... you gots to bring it!  *z snap*
> Get Miss J on the phone, stat!
> 
> 
> *Just to clarify, I'm not saying that isn't a normal feeling for someone going through a transition - it's called a transition for a reason.  I can imagine it's not easy but most normal transgendered people aren't putting their newly acquired selves on display either.  They don't have the luxury of a camera crew following them around while they shop for foundation garments, take their first wobbly steps in high heels, or adapt their golf swing because like OMG you guyz, these boobies are too big! *_cue cutesy girly poutface _
> Basically it boils down to this: Caitlyn could have quietly gone through her transition, adapted to her new body, emotions, gender etc. and she would have emerged on the other side looking every bit the confident, statuesque, no-facks-given new woman she felt she was meant to be.
> But she didn't.  She chose another path.
> 
> #lookatme, #nosersyouguyslookatme, #areyoulookingatmeyet, #cryforattention, #wheresmycheque, #mybodyguardishotrawrgrr
> 
> 
> Oh girl, no you di'int




So on point!!! At first I called it deer in headlights but then changed it, about two weeks ago, to fish out of water!  Frozen face is another great description!


----------



## guccimamma

mama13drama99 said:


> So on point!!! At first I called it deer in headlights but then changed it, about two weeks ago, to fish out of water!  Frozen face is another great description!



I still think it's early dementia combined with frozen face. 

 My grandmother had some wild ideas and plans before her mind slowly started to waiver...then she would get a faraway look, it was so gradual but looking back a couple decades there were small signs around 65, she's still kicking.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Actual video of Bruce's/Caitlyn's deadly car accident in link 

http://gawker.com/caitlyn-jenners-deadly-malibu-car-crash-captured-on-bus-1716823863


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> Actual video of Bruce's/Caitlyn's deadly car accident in link
> 
> http://gawker.com/caitlyn-jenners-deadly-malibu-car-crash-captured-on-bus-1716823863




Caitlyn will just say it was Bruce.


----------



## ByeKitty

guccimamma said:


> I still think it's early dementia combined with frozen face.
> 
> My grandmother had some wild ideas and plans before her mind slowly started to waiver...then she would get a faraway look, it was so gradual but looking back a couple decades there were small signs around 65, she's still kicking.



You mean the transition is a result of dementia? Then why was she already transitioning in the 80s?


----------



## zippie

Just watched the video of Bruce crashing and killing that woman on TMZ.  I can't imagine how I would feel being responsible for killing someone.


----------



## creighbaby

zippie said:


> Just watched the video of Bruce crashing and killing that woman on TMZ.  I can't imagine how I would feel being responsible for killing someone.




If you're Bruce/Cait, you go on about your business as if nothing happened. 

(I use both names because Cait was still Bruce when the accident happened and in the immediate aftermath of it.)


----------



## Encore Hermes

The video also shows that Jenner hit the black Prius. 

"Jenner, 65, reportedly also claimed that because the accident happened so fast, he wasn't sure if Howe's car hit the black Prius ahead of her before his vehicle struck Howe's."

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...dn-avoid-fatal-crash-report-article-1.2114470

_However unless he is quoted as saying it, it is speculation _


----------



## guccimamma

ByeKitty said:


> *You mean the transition is a result of dementia?* Then why was she already transitioning in the 80s?



absolutely not. i don't think he is transitioning because of dementia... 

 just a hunch, could be way wrong.  seen a lot of it in my family, unfortunately.


----------



## chowlover2

Luvbolide said:


> I may be over-reading this, or it may be all of the bad ps, but to me she exudes a desperation.  Not a relaxed sense of freedom but a notice-me, talk-about-me type of feeling.  It feels very artificial and stilted.  Maybe I just don't like her personality and how this entire transition is being handled.   Why not participate in the recent Pride celebrations instead of being filmed watching them.  Or go talk to youth groups - privately and without a camera crew.  Everything she has done is about her and getting her new face and new boobs plastered everywhere.  Ugh...




Good post!

I also saw on her show that she is going to mentor transgender teens. WTF! She just transitioned, shouldn't she be mentored?


----------



## Sassys

promo shot


----------



## Cocolicious

zippie said:


> Just watched the video of Bruce crashing and killing that woman on TMZ.  I can't imagine how I would feel being responsible for killing someone.



He doesn't think he is responsible and that is the problem.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> promo shot



Lots of photoshop I am sure or a vaseline lens ( Caitlyn learned from the best-Kim )


----------



## guccimamma

chowlover2 said:


> Lots of photoshop I am sure or a vaseline lens ( Caitlyn learned from the best-Kim )



vaseline on the lens? i thought that was what kim rubbed all over her a$$ before a photoshoot.

many uses.


----------



## Jayne1

Cocolicious said:


> He doesn't think he is responsible and that is the problem.



Either that or she thinks, well, it was a mistake and everyone makes mistakes occasionally. Can't hold someone at fault if they made a mistake, right?


----------



## Lounorada

guccimamma said:


> vaseline on the lens? i thought that was what kim rubbed all over her a$$ before a photoshoot.
> 
> many uses.


----------



## usmcwifey

Jayne1 said:


> Either that or she thinks, well, it was a mistake and everyone makes mistakes occasionally. Can't hold someone at fault if they made a mistake, right?




Eesh! Most mistakes don't end a life...it was more negligence than a mistake in my opinion.


----------



## Jayne1

usmcwifey said:


> Eesh! Most mistakes don't end a life...it was more negligence than a mistake in my opinion.


I completely agree -- I'm just speculating what she must be thinking and I bet she's not blaming herself.


----------



## ByeKitty

Vaseline lens or not, I do think she looks pretty good in that promo shoot. That dress is so much better than the lingerie she wore for the vanity fair cover.


----------



## Luvbolide

Jayne1 said:


> I completely agree -- I'm just speculating what she must be thinking and I bet she's not blaming herself.





I think you are right - I don 't think that she has considered herself responsible for the accident since it happened.  The video tells a different story, though.

I sometimes wonder if she has given much thought at all to the accident, what with all the hoopla surrounding her transition.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Luvbolide said:


> I think you are right - I don 't think that she has considered herself responsible for the accident since it happened.  The video tells a different story, though.
> 
> I sometimes wonder if she has given much thought at all to the accident, what with all the hoopla surrounding her transition.



Narcissistic people usually don't because they're too busy thinking about themselves.
Jenner is the perfect definition of the word.


----------



## Sassys

Luvbolide said:


> I think you are right - I don 't think that she has considered herself responsible for the accident since it happened.  The video tells a different story, though.
> 
> I sometimes wonder if she has given much thought at all to the accident, what with all the hoopla surrounding her transition.



She has never talked about the accident so how do you know she doesn't feel responsible.


----------



## Jayne1

^ Well, we're all assuming, so here's my assumption&#8230;

That nonchalant, hands in pockets stroll, while at the scene of the accident&#8230; then the unapologetic statement released after. (Lawyer written, I know, and obvious distancing herself from responsibility, but still&#8230

Then her "I've never been happier in my whole life" media blitz starting shortly after the accident, featuring Caitlyn, who is fixated on dresses, heels, makeup and showing off her boobs.

I wonder if the accident keeps her up at night, but frankly, I think she's more exited about her new life.


----------



## mama13drama99

Jayne1 said:


> ^ Well, we're all assuming, so here's my assumption
> 
> That nonchalant, hands in pockets stroll, while at the scene of the accident then the unapologetic statement released after. (Lawyer written, I know, and obvious distancing herself from responsibility, but still)
> 
> Then her "I've never been happier in my whole life" media blitz starting shortly after the accident, featuring Caitlyn, who is fixated on dresses, heels, makeup and showing off her boobs.
> 
> I wonder if the accident keeps her up at night, but frankly, I think she's more exited about her new life.




Yep!!!


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> ^ Well, we're all assuming, so here's my assumption
> 
> That nonchalant, hands in pockets stroll, while at the scene of the accident then the unapologetic statement released after. (Lawyer written, I know, and obvious distancing herself from responsibility, but still)
> 
> Then her "I've never been happier in my whole life" media blitz starting shortly after the accident, featuring Caitlyn, who is fixated on dresses, heels, makeup and showing off her boobs.
> 
> I wonder if the accident keeps her up at night, but frankly, I think she's more exited about her new life.



Bruce was a very unhappy man for a long time. I can't even imagine being so unhappy inside and pretending everything is fine on the outside, while you are dying on the inside and no one understands. Caitlyn deserves some happiness. I have no problem with her famewhoring it up for awhile. It must be so liberating to finally have some happiness after years of misery.


----------



## TC1

^^ I am just not a fan of the timing. It was obvious Bruce was waiting for all the TV and magazine spotlight to align for the Caitlyn reveal. All the surgeries, growing out his hair...it had all been in the works for quite some time...but no "reveal" until all the $$ offers were right. This is what bothers me the most.


----------



## labelwhore04

TC1 said:


> ^^ I am just not a fan of the timing. It was obvious Bruce was waiting for all the TV and magazine spotlight to align for the Caitlyn reveal. All the surgeries, growing out his hair...it had all been in the works for quite some time...but no "reveal" until all the $$ offers were right. This is what bothers me the most.



Well if you're gonna do something anyway might as well make money off of it, instead of sneaking around and having paps make money off of you.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 you nailed it!


----------



## Luvbolide

I agree totally with Jayne1's comments - and I find it particularly haunting to see the photos of Bruce/Caitlin gazing into the interior of the Lexus.  Given what had unfolded, I doubt I could bring myself to do that.  I believe that if my car struck a vehicle and killed the driver of that vehicle, I would be distraught at the scene - regardless of fault.

I agree that Cait deserves happiness, but I don't see why that happiness involves round the clock famewhoring.  I can't help but feel that this is a situation that is intensely personal and it should be handled as such.  I'm not saying that she should shun the media, but courting the media on a 24/7 basis lends the entire situation an odd ring to it.  I hope that she is seeing a therapist and getting some support and guidance on how to handle some of the major life changes necessitated by her transition - life isn't all exposing one's face and boobs to the cameras.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Can Caitlyn do some parenting with the 17yr  or is that too much to ask of her while she is filming  her happiness?


----------



## Lounorada

Encore Hermes said:


> Can Caitlyn do some parenting with the 17yr  or is that too much to ask of her while she is filming  her happiness?


 
This.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> ^ Well, we're all assuming, so here's my assumption
> 
> That nonchalant, hands in pockets stroll, while at the scene of the accident then the unapologetic statement released after. (Lawyer written, I know, and obvious distancing herself from responsibility, but still)
> 
> Then her "I've never been happier in my whole life" media blitz starting shortly after the accident, featuring Caitlyn, who is fixated on dresses, heels, makeup and showing off her boobs.
> 
> I wonder if the accident keeps her up at night, but frankly, I think she's more exited about her new life.




Agree with this. 
And, no, I don't think for a second that She's lost a wink of sleep or gave the whole thing a second thought. 
I'm sure it's just a "nuisance" to her that's been handed over to the lawyers and
Professionals to deal with. Not a care in the world for this one.


----------



## Bentley1

Encore Hermes said:


> Can Caitlyn do some parenting with the 17yr  or is that too much to ask of her while she is filming  her happiness?




Lol. Yeah, you're asking for too much. SHe's probably more inclined to compete with her than to parent her.


----------



## Jayne1

Luvbolide said:


> I agree totally with Jayne1's comments - and I find it particularly haunting to see the photos of Bruce/Caitlin gazing into the interior of the Lexus. Given what had unfolded, I doubt I could bring myself to do that.  I believe that if my car struck a vehicle and killed the driver of that vehicle,* I would be distraught at the scene - regardless of fault.*


Yes, we all found that gazing into the interior of the car, rather off putting, but I wonder if it's more of a girl thing to cry, gesture, put our hands to our mouth, sort of thing.

Many of us have saId Cait still has many male mannerisms and that sure was one of them. You'd never think for one second that was a lady checking out the accidental death she just caused.

(Don't anyone tell me I just made a gross generalization, I know it.  )

Is Cait on some sort of medication to keep her nerves under control?  Maybe that's it. She cant be so uncaring and oblivious to the pain of others, can she?


----------



## Luvbolide

Encore Hermes said:


> Can Caitlyn do some parenting with the 17yr  or is that too much to ask of her while she is filming  her happiness?





Why start now?


----------



## Jayne1

Luvbolide said:


> Why start now?


----------



## VickyB

encore hermes said:


> can caitlyn do some parenting with the 17yr  or is that too much to ask of her while she is filming  her happiness?



lol


----------



## guccimamma

Bentley1 said:


> Lol. Yeah, you're asking for too much. *SHe's probably more inclined to compete with her than to parent her*.



sad but true.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner stepped out for lunch with daughter Kendall in Beverly Hills on Saturday - the first public appearance of them together since her transition in June.

The 65-year-old and the model were also joined by Hailey Baldwin, 18, who had been working out with Kendall, 19, earlier in the day.

No doubt the lunch gave Caitlyn an opportunity to pick the brains of the two models for advice on her emerging style and dress sense. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...lunch-model-Hailey-Baldwin.html#ixzz3fiKxisvn


----------



## labelwhore04

Much better outfit compared to what shes been wearing lately.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I like this outfit


----------



## Jayne1

Remember what her hair used to look like? What did she do!


----------



## VickyB

Ugh, those legs.


----------



## VickyB

Jayne1 said:


> Remember what her hair used to look like? What did she do!



Dunno but I'd love to know!!!!


----------



## Jayne1

Kendel is a slobby mess, direct from the gym and Cait is all dressed up for a ladies lunch.


----------



## Freckles1

She is 65.... Speaking from a standpoint of having parents that age.... They always dress nicely when having lunch or dinner out. She looks lovely. And as far as her legs go.... Well, she is 65.....


----------



## Jayne1

Freckles1 said:


> She is 65.... Speaking from a standpoint of having parents that age.... They always dress nicely when having lunch or dinner out. She looks lovely. And as far as her legs go.... Well, she is 65.....



Yes, I also like to look presentable at all times.  I just find it funny that Kendal didn't give a damn and showed up in sweaty work out stuff.

As for the legs.  If you got it, flaunt it, but in this case she doesn't have it.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, I also like to look presentable at all times.  I just find it funny that Kendal didn't give a damn and showed up in sweaty work out stuff.
> 
> As for the legs.  If you got it, flaunt it, but in this case&#8230; she doesn't have it.



I think Kendall is dressing like any 19 year old daughter would dress when lunching with a parent.  And, I think she looks cute.

Cait on the other hand needs to wear dresses that hit the knee.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Those cheek implants look painful!
I'm really starting to enjoy seeing pics of Jenner because it means more photos of the hot bodyguard!


----------



## DesigningStyle

In case Cait is checking in.  This is what I have in mind for her.  Much better.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

I actually think her legs looks nice in those pics. I think Kendall looks cute too. Kendall always looks best in casual clothes. She can't pull off most of the trendy stuff she tries to.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Still dressing better than any of the other gals in the family - athlete's knees included.


----------



## uhpharm01

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Still dressing better than any of the other gals in the family - athlete's knees included.



That's very true


----------



## guccimamma

kendall looks fine, she wears designer clothes for a living...i see nothing wrong with her casual attire for a lunch.

caitlyn, she's probably been dreaming about this day for years...so i won't say anything critical.


----------



## whimsic

She looks nice. Her legs aren't bad for her age.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Jayne1 said:


> Remember what her hair used to look like? What did she do!



extensions


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> extensions



Extensions hanging on to what?  Her scalp used to be a touch bald.  What's been done to the hairline?


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> Extensions hanging on to what?  Her scalp used to be a touch bald.  What's been done to the hairline?


 
She has been growing her hair for awhile now. She was quite proud of that during the Diane Sawyer interview and the E! special. But like DC, I am sure she wears extensions.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Jayne1 said:


> Extensions hanging on to what?  Her scalp used to be a touch bald.  What's been done to the hairline?




It still looks thin at the top. Maybe just a little teased to cover some of the thinning but still thin. Those pics are when his hair was combed back, much shorter and not teased. Caitlyn wears her hair forward, longer and teased some to camo some of the thinning.


----------



## berrydiva

I can't believe that Caitlyn has been wearing women's clothing for all of 10 minutes and looks better than the rest of the clan.


----------



## Jayne1

jimmyshoogirl said:


> It still looks thin at the top. Maybe just a little teased to cover some of the thinning but still thin. Those pics are when his hair was combed back, much shorter and not teased. Caitlyn wears her hair forward, longer and teased some to camo some of the thinning.



Oh, good point!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Jayne1 said:


> Extensions hanging on to what?  Her scalp used to be a touch bald.  What's been done to the hairline?



it doesn't take much for extensions to be added.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

berrydiva said:


> I can't believe that Caitlyn has been wearing women's clothing for all of 10 minutes and looks better than the rest of the clan.




Well she's had 25+ years to study what NOT to do. All the studying paid off.


----------



## DC-Cutie

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Well she's had 25+ years to study what NOT to do. All the studying paid off.



Right!  She was living a real life version of 'what not to wear' watching all the K's dress


----------



## dangerouscurves

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Well she's had 25+ years to study what NOT to do. All the studying paid off.







DC-Cutie said:


> Right!  She was living a real life version of 'what not to wear' watching all the K's dress




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] yep!!!


----------



## Jayne1

Just read Jenner will not be charged in the fatal car crash.  Typical K -- never any consequences.

(I can't find the link.)


----------



## bag-mania

^This is all that has been made public so far.



> *Caitlyn Jenner 'will only be charged with misdemeanor' for fatal Malibu crash that left her 69-year-old neighbour dead*
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner will only be charged with a misdemeanor for her fatal crash in February that left a 69-year-old widow dead, a report has claimed.
> 
> According to TMZ, police have concluded that no drugs, alcohol, or talking or texting on a phone were to blame for the pile-up.
> 
> Investigators will determine that merely negligence, which is not a felony, was the cause.
> 
> This means the maximum charge Jenner can face is misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter.
> 
> The site claims that this is what will ultimately be presented to the DA, adding that in accident cases like this are commonly dismissed altogether.
> 
> Police came to the conclusion after studying video footage of the smash which was only made public this week.
> 
> The video captured by a passing bus shows Jenner's Escalade hitting the Lexus driven by Kim Howe on the Pacific Coast Highway not far from Malibu, California.
> 
> Howe died in the four-car crash, which left a slew of shattered cars on the freeway. Not long after the crash it emerged that a recording existed, which was handed over to police.
> 
> The footage had not been made public until it was published Thursday by Entertainent Tonight.
> 
> Images from the video appears to show Jenner, who had not then announced her new, female identity and was known as Bruce, hitting both the white Lexus with Howe inside and another black car.
> 
> Later frames show Howe's Lexus being pushed into oncoming traffic. The shattered chassis of the car could be seen moments later, with a somber-looking Jenner not far away.
> 
> The star has been hit with multiple lawsuits, both from the family of Howe and a Hollywood agent whose black Prius Jenner also collided with.
> 
> Howe's stepchildren, Dana Redmond and William Howe, filed a lawsuit in May accusing Jenner of wrongful death and claiming she was speeding at the time - a point which police reports have not supported.
> 
> The two children are seeking compensation over the killing - though according to TMZ the two had 'virtually no relationship' with Howe, who did not have any other relatives.
> 
> A second lawsuit was filed in June by Hollywood agent Jessica Steindorff, who named both Bruce and Caitlyn in the suit.
> 
> Steindorff, who was driving on a suspended license at the time, is suing Jenner over apparent serious injuries and loss of wages.
> 
> She said she had stopped in front on stationary traffic which she was hit from behind.
> 
> Jenner has yet to be hit with any criminal charges, which local prosecutors are reportedly still considering.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...bu-crash-left-69-year-old-neighbour-dead.html


----------



## berrydiva

Jayne1 said:


> Just read Jenner will not be charged in the fatal car crash.  Typical K -- never any consequences.
> 
> (I can't find the link.)


It's rare (in the US), AFAIK, that someone is charged for fatalities in accidents if it was truly determined to be an accident. The family will probably file a civil suit still.


----------



## Sassys

berrydiva said:


> It's rare (in the US), AFAIK, that someone is charged for fatalities in accidents if it was truly determined to be an accident. *The family will probably file a civil suit still.*


 
I thought she didn't have any family.


----------



## berrydiva

Sassys said:


> I thought she didn't have any family.



Dunno. I stopped following the story.


----------



## SouthTampa

Coach Lover Too said:


> Those cheek implants look painful!
> I'm really starting to enjoy seeing pics of Jenner because it means more photos of the hot bodyguard!


Truth!   He needs to have his own bodyguard!   I will volunteer&#128512;


----------



## knasarae

Sassys said:


> I thought she didn't have any family.



I believe she had two stepchildren.  But there were stories that they didn't get along/hadn't been in touch for several years so it was argued they didn't have the right to file.  That's as much as I know.


----------



## bag-mania

Sassys said:


> I thought she didn't have any family.



She doesn't have any direct family. The grown children of her  husband, who died back in 2003, are the ones who filed the lawsuit.  That's why the TMZ article referred to them as having "virtually no relationship" with her.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Is TMZ or sources' saying Jenner will only be charged with a misdemeanor or has a real statement been made by law enforcement.


I don't think a felony charge will be filed unless they weigh heavily the towing a trailer  in the left lane (illegal unless passing) or reckless driving is determined.


----------



## guccimamma

bag-mania said:


> She doesn't have any direct family. The grown children of her  husband, who died back in 2003, are the ones who filed the lawsuit.  That's why the TMZ article referred to them as having "virtually no relationship" with her.



lucky old bruce killed a woman with no family to claim his $$$$

she was a neat lady, and very involved in animal charities. it would be nice if they could sue on her behalf.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> lucky old bruce killed a woman with no family to claim his $$$$
> 
> she was a neat lady, and very involved in animal charities. it would be nice if they could sue on her behalf.



If Jenner had any character at all, he'd make a huge donation to a charity that the victim had been involved in. I don't see that happening though.


----------



## bisousx

Coach Lover Too said:


> If Jenner had any character at all, he'd make a huge donation to a charity that the victim had been involved in. I don't see that happening though.



I agree with this, although I'm not sure if either parties would talk about the donation if one had been made.


----------



## TC1

bisousx said:


> I agree with this, although I'm not sure if either parties would talk about the donation if one had been made.


Well, I for one think that if Caitlyn had made a donation she'd be shouting it from the rooftops like all her latest "everyone look at me" PR stunts.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> If Jenner had any character at all, he'd make a huge donation to a charity that the victim had been involved in. I don't see that happening though.



If you don't mind me asking, why should she make a donation?


----------



## mrsinsyder

TC1 said:


> Well, I for one think that if Caitlyn had made a donation she'd be shouting it from the rooftops like all her latest "everyone look at me" PR stunts.


Uhh yeah, it would get "leaked" to Life and Style, E!, DailyMail, People, etc.


----------



## Florasun

DesigningStyle said:


> In case Cait is checking in.  This is what I have in mind for her.  Much better.



Agree! And yay! She got some new shoes.


----------



## DesigningStyle

mirror.com has a very unflattering photo on their site.


----------



## creighbaby

I Sound like a broken record, but he does not deserve the Espy award. Not one bit. TMZ is reporting that all of his kids will be at the awards, but not any of his ex-wives because they aren't his family. 

Here's the story and link

Caitlyn Jenner has invited her entire family to be by her side when she receives the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs Wednesday night, with the exception of her 3 ex-wives.

Chrystie Crownover, Linda Thompson and Kris Jenner will not be attending the ceremony, and it makes sense. We're told Caitlyn wants her family there, and the exes are not family anymore. As one Caitlyn source put it, "Her ex-wives don't celebrate Father's Day. Fact is, they're just not her family, but the kids are."

And the kids will be there in force ... Kim, Khloe, Kendall and Kylie. Brody, Burt and Cassandra will also be at the ceremony, but Brandon is up in the air because his wife, Leah, is about to give birth. Caitlyn's mom and sister will be in attendance too. 

Then there's Rob Kardashian ... we're told he's definitely invited, but it doesn't look good because he's shunned every public appearance for more than a year. 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/14/caitlyn-jenner-espys-family-kids-no-kris-jenner/


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DC-Cutie said:


> If you don't mind me asking, why should she make a donation?



I guess it's because I feel as though it'd be the right thing to do. I would want to do something, if I could to honor the victim's memory somehow.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

creighbaby said:


> I Sound like a broken record, but he does not deserve the Espy award. Not one bit. TMZ is reporting that all of his kids will be at the awards, but not any of his ex-wives because they aren't his family.
> 
> Let me find the link



They just reported on E News that Rob, nor Kris will be there, but everyone else is expected. No red carpet though.


----------



## SpeedyJC

creighbaby said:


> I Sound like a broken record, but he does not deserve the Espy award. Not one bit. TMZ is reporting that all of his kids will be at the awards, but not any of his ex-wives because they aren't his family.
> 
> Here's the story and link
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner has invited her entire family to be by her side when she receives the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs Wednesday night, with the exception of her 3 ex-wives.
> 
> Chrystie Crownover, Linda Thompson and Kris Jenner will not be attending the ceremony, and it makes sense. We're told Caitlyn wants her family there, and the exes are not family anymore. As one Caitlyn source put it, "Her ex-wives don't celebrate Father's Day. Fact is, they're just not her family, but the kids are."
> 
> And the kids will be there in force ... Kim, Khloe, Kendall and Kylie. Brody, Burt and Cassandra will also be at the ceremony, but Brandon is up in the air because his wife, Leah, is about to give birth. Caitlyn's mom and sister will be in attendance too.
> 
> Then there's Rob Kardashian ... we're told he's definitely invited, but it doesn't look good because he's shunned every public appearance for more than a year.
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/14/caitlyn-jenner-espys-family-kids-no-kris-jenner/



Nope she sure doesn't. Very disappointed and not watching.


----------



## mama13drama99

SpeedyJC said:


> Nope she sure doesn't. Very disappointed and not watching.




Absolutely doesn't and highly disappointing!!!


----------



## guccimamma

i guess it would be in bad taste to boo at the award show. i gotta believe there are lots of people in the audience who don't agree with this choice.


----------



## Encore Hermes

guccimamma said:


> i guess it would be in bad taste to boo at the award show. i gotta believe there are lots of people in the audience who don't agree with this choice.



I think they will have the 5 second delay and they can always add applause if they anticipate the boos.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I'm still trying to understand why she's getting an Espy.  Her 'coming out/transition' isn't heroic


----------



## uhpharm01

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm still trying to understand why she's getting an Espy.  Her 'coming out/transition' isn't heroic



I'm wondering too.


----------



## terebina786

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm still trying to understand why she's getting an Espy.  Her 'coming out/transition' isn't heroic



This.  When I heard who she was up against, I really didn't understand and I still don't.  Any chance that E! paid for the award?


----------



## tennisplyr91

creighbaby said:


> I Sound like a broken record,




Yes, you do.


----------



## tennisplyr91

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm still trying to understand why she's getting an Espy.  Her 'coming out/transition' isn't heroic




Really? Just read all the comments in this thread and imagine if those were targeted to you. She has received an immense amount of support but also a huge amount of backlash and personal attacks like the ones constantly aimed at her in this thread, but from public sources. She was extremely courageous, you are just choosing not to see it.


----------



## tennisplyr91

guccimamma said:


> i guess it would be in bad taste to boo at the award show. i gotta believe there are lots of people in the audience who don't agree with this choice.




I hope not because wether you agree with it or not, its not her choice and she shouldn't have to feel like complete **** for it.


----------



## Wildflower22

tennisplyr91 said:


> Really? Just read all the comments in this thread and imagine if those were targeted to you. She has received an immense amount of support but also a huge amount of backlash and personal attacks like the ones constantly aimed at her in this thread, but from public sources. She was extremely courageous, you are just choosing not to see it.



I think most people believe what she went through did take extreme courage, but that there are more deserving recipients. For me personally, I cannot imagine the pain she is causing her young daughters going through this so publicly. I don't know...this whole public process with her leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I can't pin point it. Perhaps it's that she's basically acting just like a K which actually doesn't take any courage.


----------



## ByeKitty

I agree, people will see what they want to see but Caitlyn's coming out was an act of great courage - and that's what this award is about: courage. And, like it or not, she is a pioneer in this respect, and raises a lot of awareness on gender issues. I think the main problem here is that the "runner up" was a courageous war veteran. People seem to find it easier to understand the courage of a veteran than the courage of a transgender woman. But I do think Bruce/Caitlyn's story is exceptional.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Welllllll..........an interesting rumor I heard (with zero substantiation) is that getting the ESPY AA Courage award was part of the deal for going with ABC for the interview. 

ABC and ESPN  owned by Disney


----------



## SpeedyJC

tennisplyr91 said:


> Really? Just read all the comments in this thread and imagine if those were targeted to you. She has received an immense amount of support but also a huge amount of backlash and personal attacks like the ones constantly aimed at her in this thread, but from public sources. She was extremely courageous, you are just choosing not to see it.


 
All celebrities are targets of nasty personal attacks or backlash not just Caitlyn. They are made fun of for being overweight/underweight, gay/allegedly gay, for being mentally ill, for not aging gracefully ect ect ect. When one chooses to live their lives infront of the world they need to expect the world to talk about them. Remember what happened to Britney Spears when she first became mentally ill? Or how about the backlash Ellen received after she came out that she was a lesbian? 

I am not trying to discount the fact that what Caitlyn did was brave. Finally admitting to the world that she has always felt like she was not a man must have taken tremendous courage and I am so happy for her that she finally transitioned. While you are correct dealing with the backlash must be hard lets not pretend like Caitlyn isn't benefiting either. She had that big 20/20 interview, the TV series and who knows what else is next. Famous people like two things 1) money 2) their name in the news, Caitlyn is getting both.  

In my opinion and in many others Lauren Hill deserved that award. She became such an inspiration to many and she died being an inspiration. Her memory deserved to be honored and I think that is why many disagree with Caitlyn receiving it, I know that's why I do. Also lets not forget about Noah Galloway either as many were hoping he would receive it and yes he was a deserving recipient.


----------



## Jayne1

creighbaby said:


> I Sound like a broken record



We all do.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Welllllll..........an interesting rumor I heard (with zero substantiation) is that getting the ESPY AA Courage award was part of the deal for going with ABC for the interview.
> 
> ABC and ESPN  owned by Disney



There.  That's it.


----------



## Encore Hermes

ByeKitty said:


> I agree, people will see what they want to see but Caitlyn's coming out was an act of great courage - and that's what this award is about: courage. And, like it or not, she is a pioneer in this respect, and raises a lot of awareness on gender issues. I think the main problem here is that *the "runner up" was a courageous war veteran. * People seem to find it easier to understand the courage of a veteran than the courage of a transgender woman. But I do think Bruce/Caitlyn's story is exceptional.



And Lauren Hill had many supporters as well 

"Lauren Hill, whose inspirational story of fighting a tumor to play college basketball touched a nation, died of brain cancer in a hospital in Cincinnati on Friday morning, the Associated Press reported. She was only 19.

Hill, a freshman at Division III St. Joseph University, used her story to create a non-profit foundation that helped raise more than $1.5 million for cancer research.

"Through Lauren's fundraising and advocacy efforts, she not only became a spotlight on the lack of funding for cancer research, but she most certainly has become a beacon guiding researchers for years to come," The Cure Starts Now co-founder Brooke Desserich told the AP."

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/04/lauren_hill_who_fought_tumor_t.html


----------



## ByeKitty

Encore Hermes said:


> Welllllll..........an interesting rumor I heard (with zero substantiation) is that getting the ESPY AA Courage award was part of the deal for going with ABC for the interview.
> 
> ABC and ESPN  owned by Disney



And of course these types of large award events are hardly ever independent of large corporations and economic interests, especially in the US where these types of events are very popular so they speak to a big market. Therefore, I don't understand why people would get wound up over who exactly receives the award. Caitlyn seems to be a perfect fit: Olympian hero and epitome of masculinity secretly always felt like a woman inside, but the pressure to be Bruce Jenner was intense, and at the age of 65 she finally gathered enough courage to live her life the way she always wanted to. It sounds like a soap opera actually.


----------



## tennisplyr91

Wildflower22 said:


> I think most people believe what she went through did take extreme courage, but that there are more deserving recipients. For me personally, I cannot imagine the pain she is causing her young daughters going through this so publicly. I don't know...this whole public process with her leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I can't pin point it. Perhaps it's that she's basically acting just like a K which actually doesn't take any courage.




I feel like you are talking about different things.

What you first said is an opinion that is respectful and doesnt harm anyone. It is a lot different to what most people are saying here. People are saying she isnt courageous, shes selfish etcetc. 

Wether you think its a public sham or not, doesnt change the fact that she is subjecting herself to a lot of negativity, or that she is indeed helping a lot of people who might be feeling the same way she once did.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> There.  That's it.



Well........who knows............just a rumor.........

but didn't they announce that Caitlyn was the recipient of the award like a day after the interview?


----------



## SpeedyJC

ByeKitty said:


> And of course these types of large award events are hardly ever independent of large corporations and economic interests, especially in the US where these types of events are very popular so they speak to a big market. Therefore, I don't understand why people would get wound up over who exactly receives the award. Caitlyn seems to be a perfect fit: Olympian hero and epitome of masculinity secretly always felt like a woman inside, but the pressure to be Bruce Jenner was intense, and at the age of 65 she finally gathered enough courage to live her life the way she always wanted to. It sounds like a soap opera actually.


 
Awards are all about industry politics. You are correct it was the perfect media story and that's why she won. I guess it just kinda sucks when you see the way these things work but really they have always been this way.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> Welllllll..........an interesting rumor I heard (with zero substantiation) is that getting the ESPY AA Courage award was part of the deal for going with ABC for the interview.
> 
> ABC and ESPN  owned by Disney



Yep, I read that yesterday too. Can't say I'm surprised. I hope it backfires on ESPN and hurts them where it counts. $$$$$ Too many other MORE deserving recipients, in my opinion.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> And Lauren Hill had many supporters as well
> 
> "Lauren Hill, whose inspirational story of fighting a tumor to play college basketball touched a nation, died of brain cancer in a hospital in Cincinnati on Friday morning, the Associated Press reported. She was only 19.
> 
> Hill, a freshman at Division III St. Joseph University, used her story to create a non-profit foundation that helped raise more than $1.5 million for cancer research.
> 
> "Through Lauren's fundraising and advocacy efforts, she not only became a spotlight on the lack of funding for cancer research, but she most certainly has become a beacon guiding researchers for years to come," The Cure Starts Now co-founder Brooke Desserich told the AP."
> 
> http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/04/lauren_hill_who_fought_tumor_t.html



Bless her heart, she fought so hard to live. She's a winner in my book. RIP.&#9829;


----------



## Coach Lover Too

SouthTampa said:


> Truth!   He needs to have his own bodyguard!   I will volunteer&#128512;



I'll be your back up!


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I really don't think this has anything to do with her being brave or courageous. While she may be to some I just can't see the majority even understanding the severity of this whole transition to vote for her. 

It is all about "the hot story" and how many viewers this brings in. I can't believe people can't believe she's getting this award. Lately in television it is always about ratings, sponsors and who you know. TV hasn't been reliable in a very long time now. Hence the reason reality shows are popular. 

Caitlyn is a few months old and hadn't done anything brave but take pap stroll in heels on those knobby knees (which takes LOTS of effort). I would think Bruce would get the award since he was the one that did all of the work. I guess he can't now since he's no longer with us. 

This whole thing is exhausting.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

SpeedyJC said:


> Nope she sure doesn't. Very disappointed and not watching.





mama13drama99 said:


> Absolutely doesn't and highly disappointing!!!





DC-Cutie said:


> I'm still trying to understand why she's getting an Espy.  Her 'coming out/transition' isn't heroic





uhpharm01 said:


> I'm wondering too.





terebina786 said:


> This.  When I heard who she was up against, I really didn't understand and I still don't.  Any chance that E! paid for the award?




Add me to this list. #boycottESPN


----------



## tennisplyr91

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I really don't think this has anything to do with her being brave or courageous. While she may be to some I just can't see the majority even understanding the severity of this whole transition to vote for her.
> 
> It is all about "the hot story" and how many viewers this brings in. I can't believe people can't believe she's getting this award. Lately in television it is always about ratings, sponsors and who you know. TV hasn't been reliable in a very long time now. Hence the reason reality shows are popular.
> 
> Caitlyn is a few months old and hadn't done anything brave but take pap stroll in heels on those knobby knees (which takes LOTS of effort). I would think Bruce would get the award since he was the one that did all of the work. I guess he can't now since he's no longer with us.
> 
> This whole thing is exhausting.




reading this thread is both exhausting and depressing. I hope that no one who is seeking for help comes across this thread.


----------



## ByeKitty

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I really don't think this has anything to do with her being brave or courageous. While she may be to some I just can't see the majority even understanding the severity of this whole transition to vote for her.
> 
> It is all about "the hot story" and how many viewers this brings in. I can't believe people can't believe she's getting this award. Lately in television it is always about ratings, sponsors and who you know. TV hasn't been reliable in a very long time now. Hence the reason reality shows are popular.
> 
> Caitlyn is a few months old and hadn't done anything brave but take pap stroll in heels on those knobby knees (which takes LOTS of effort). I would think Bruce would get the award since he was the one that did all of the work. I guess he can't now since he's no longer with us.
> 
> This whole thing is exhausting.


As far as I'm concerned Bruce and Caitlyn are the same person, just packaged differently.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

tennisplyr91 said:


> reading this thread is both exhausting and depressing. I hope that no one who is seeking for help comes across this thread.




On a purse forum? Yea, I hope not either.


----------



## tennisplyr91

jimmyshoogirl said:


> On a purse forum? Yea, I hope not either.




That hasn't deterred any of you to openly share your hatred on something else besides purses.


----------



## DC-Cutie

tennisplyr91 said:


> Really? Just read all the comments in this thread and imagine if those were targeted to you. She has received an immense amount of support but also a huge amount of backlash and personal attacks like the ones constantly aimed at her in this thread, but from public sources. She was extremely courageous, you are just choosing not to see it.



Let's get one thing straight MY opinion on her getting the Espy is just that - MY opinion. You think she deserves it, great - round of applause for you. 

Now I see very well and I don't see how her coming out and her link to being a sports figure (from the 70's) has anything to do with this award in 2015.  

Re the comments in this thread - tpf comments are very tamed compares to what people are really saying. Yes you have to be strong to read and hear them, but it comes with the territory. Remember she has been the subject of scrutiny while being part of the kardashian crew, so this is nothing new to her.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

tennisplyr91 said:


> That hasn't deterred any of you to openly share your hatred on something else besides purses.



And it definitely hadn't deterred you from reading such "exhausting and depressing" info for any us. Although, not really sure where you got hatred in my post from. Misunderstanding of this? Yes. I'm not all knowing like you seem to be. 

If I need medically help I wouldn't come here but to read the latest gossip, find out about nail
Polish and whatever else, most certainly will.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I think Jenner is a fraud. Plain and simple.
If someone comes to this thread looking for help then they've got deeper problems than gender issues.


----------



## Sassys

tennisplyr91 said:


> That hasn't deterred any of you to openly share your hatred on something else besides purses.



The blog is called purse forum, but the are many other categories and threads to discuss things other than purses. That is why the threads are here. I don't recall anyone here stating they hated anyone. Yes, there have been some ignorant comments.


----------



## guccimamma

tennisplyr91 said:


> That hasn't deterred any of *you to openly share your hatred* on something else besides purses.



i don't care if she transitioned, that's her deal....no hate.

it doesn't overshadow that she just killed someone due to inattentive driving, and has turned out to be a gigantic fame-ho on par with kris herself. 

she's lining her pockets daily with the proceeds of her personal journey.

so i'm supposed to support her/embrace her  because she is turning into a woman? nah.


----------



## tennisplyr91

jimmyshoogirl said:


> And it definitely hadn't deterred you from reading such "exhausting and depressing" info for any us. Although, not really sure where you got hatred in my post from. Misunderstanding of this? Yes. I'm not all knowing like you seem to be.
> 
> If I need medically help I wouldn't come here but to read the latest gossip, find out about nail
> Polish and whatever else, most certainly will.




Except that you are not discussing nail polish and "whatever else". You dont need to have any special knowledge to understand that is not cool to attack other human beings. If you want to comment on their clothes bags etc, fine. But how would you feel if people made nasty comments about your body, your family etc. there is clearly a lack of boundaries and thats what gets me the most.


----------



## tennisplyr91

guccimamma said:


> i don't care if she transitioned, that's her deal....no hate.
> 
> 
> 
> it doesn't overshadow that she just killed someone due to inattentive driving




Talk to me once she gets charged.


----------



## tennisplyr91

Sassys said:


> The blog is called purse forum, but the are many other categories and threads to discuss things other than purses. That is why the threads are here. I don't recall anyone here stating they hated anyone. Yes, there have been some ignorant comments.




Exactly my point. Why the eff does it matter if this is a purse forum when people discuss a myriad of topics?


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think Jenner is a fraud. Plain and simple.
> If someone comes to this thread looking for help then they've got deeper problems than gender issues.



See this is what I don't understand - gender issues seem pretty damn deep to me. Gender is very decisive in who you are, it really hits the core of the self. If such issues are not dealt with they can lead to depression and possibly other mental problems.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

tennisplyr91 said:


> Except that you are not discussing nail polish and "whatever else". You dont need to have any special knowledge to understand that is not cool to attack other human beings. If you want to comment on their clothes bags etc, fine. But how would you feel if people made nasty comments about your body, your family etc. there is clearly a lack of boundaries and thats what gets me the most.




I don't do forum beefs and I'm not about to start so you can miss me with your misunderstanding of my post. Feel free to block me on this here public forum if you don't like what I'm saying.


----------



## tennisplyr91

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I don't do forum beefs and I'm not about to start so you can miss me with your misunderstanding of my post. Feel free to block me on this here public forum if you don't like what I'm saying.




Thats what I thought.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

tennisplyr91 said:


> Exactly my point. Why the eff does it matter if this is a purse forum when people discuss a myriad of topics?




And yet again you missed where she said she don't recall anyone stating hatred.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

When you put yourself in the public eye such as the Jenner and Kardashian families have done, it's expected that you're not going to have 100% support. It comes with the territory. 
I don't like Bruce Jenner. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the transgender community and everything to do with the fact that I think he's fake, I think he's got money signs in his redone eyes and I think there's more to this story than he wants us to know. *jmo*


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

tennisplyr91 said:


> Thats what I thought.




Lol you can think what you want because truthfully you did nothing but misread what I said because you got your undies in a bunch. Carry on tho...


----------



## ByeKitty

tennisplyr91 said:


> Exactly my point. Why the eff does it matter if this is a purse forum when people discuss a myriad of topics?



I know right!!! This particular subforum has nothing to do with purses. And the comments saying things like "why would someone struggling with similar issues possibly look up information and opinions on Caitlyn Jenner on a forum about purses?!" Well, why wouldn't he/she? They likely wouldn't be looking for (mental) help on here, they may just want to see how Caitlyn is doing and how people respond to her. I believe we're all here out of boredom and curiousity.

I can assure you there are quite a few people suffering from depression that are reading these boards. Doesn't make sense why they would be able to read threads about nail polish and not about Caitlyn Jenner.


----------



## tennisplyr91

ByeKitty said:


> I know right!!! This particular subforum has nothing to do with purses. And the comments saying things like "why would someone struggling with similar issues possibly look up information and opinions on Caitlyn Jenner on a forum about purses?!" Well, why wouldn't he/she? They likely wouldn't be looking for (mental) help on here, they may just want to see how Caitlyn is doing and how people respond to her. I believe we're all here out of boredom and curiousity.
> 
> 
> 
> I can assure you there are quite a few people suffering from depression that are reading these boards. Doesn't make sense why they would be able to read threads about nail polish and not about Caitlyn Jenner.




+1. Im sure that if you look up Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner Forum, you will come across this thread


----------



## DC-Cutie

Chile....  Somebody taking Caitlyn Jenner waaaaay to personal


----------



## guccimamma

don't put it on the porch, if you don't want people to point at it.


----------



## Katel

guccimamma said:


> don't put it on the porch, if you don't want people to point at it.




^^^ this +100000000


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

DC-Cutie said:


> Chile....  Somebody taking Caitlyn Jenner waaaaay to personal




Right! 


Not really sure how people allow themselves to get tangled up with the NAME of this place being purse forum. There are CLEARLY other subforums that a person can visit for other information. I personally don't thing the "celebrity news and gossip" SECTION is a place that I'd turn for help with depression. This thread is sandwiched by allll the other k's and j's would find it pretty hard to take anything serious if I'm seeking help. Heck I'm pregnant so is Kim do you see me in there looking for advice on pregnancy? NO! Like we don't know there are other topics and don't only talk about purses. Duh! Sometimes people can see the forest for the trees I tell ya. 

Anyway, I'm done here. It's like talking to a brick wall.


----------



## ByeKitty

guccimamma said:


> don't put it on the porch, if you don't want people to point at it.



I'm not sure if this was in response to my comment, but I agree with that - it's a different discussion in my book. My post was not about comments about Caitlyn being a terrible human being (which - between her parenting skills, fame whoring ways and the way she seems to handle the car crash - I agree with), this was in response to the uber defensive "well if you have mental issues don't look at a Caitlyn Jenner thread on a forum about purses"-type comments that do not sit well with me. You can't use the fact that this is "the purse forum" as a way to devalue everything that's said in here. Also, who are we to tell people where not to look on the internet?


----------



## DC-Cutie

ByeKitty said:


> I'm not sure if this was in response to my comment, but I agree with that - it's a different discussion in my book. My post was not about comments about Caitlyn being a terrible human being (which - between her parenting skills, fame whoring ways and the way she seems to handle the car crash - I agree with), this was in response to the uber defensive "well if you have mental issues don't look at a Caitlyn Jenner thread on a forum about purses"-type comments that do not sit well with me. You can't use the fact that this is "the purse forum" as a way to devalue everything that's said in here. Also, who are we to tell people where not to look on the internet?



I don't think it was directed at you

It's just a saying. Basically if you don't want people to see/comment, don't put it on public display


----------



## ByeKitty

DC-Cutie said:


> I don't think it was directed at you
> 
> It's just a saying. Basically if you don't want people to see/comment, don't put it on public display



It's the truth though, and it goes for everyone - from Caitlyn Jenner to all posters with different POVs in here!


----------



## sdkitty

ByeKitty said:


> And of course these types of large award events are hardly ever independent of large corporations and economic interests, especially in the US where these types of events are very popular so they speak to a big market. Therefore, I don't understand why people would get wound up over who exactly receives the award. Caitlyn seems to be a perfect fit: Olympian hero and epitome of masculinity secretly always felt like a woman inside, but the pressure to be Bruce Jenner was intense, and at the age of 65 she finally gathered enough courage to live her life the way she always wanted to. It sounds like a soap opera actually.


 

I don't really have anything against Kaitlyn but this screams ratings grab by ABC to me.  Obviously a lot of people who aren't sports fans will tune in to see her.
What do you want to bet she's on near the end of the show?


----------



## redney

sdkitty said:


> I don't really have anything against Kaitlyn but this screams ratings grab by ABC to me.  Obviously a lot of people who aren't sports fans will tune in to see her.



Conversely, many sports fans may not tune in.


----------



## sdkitty

redney said:


> Conversely, many sports fans may not tune in.


 true - as someone here said, there are a lot of people who don't want to see her and have much harsher opinions than what we see on this forum


----------



## chowlover2

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm still trying to understand why she's getting an Espy.  Her 'coming out/transition' isn't heroic




Agreed! Unless of course she had come out in 1980 and was a front runner of the transgender movement. Coming out in 2015 all the hard work has been done by others,


----------



## mama13drama99

tennisplyr91 said:


> reading this thread is both exhausting and depressing. I hope that no one who is seeking for help comes across this thread.




This ain't the thread for that anyway...so it's moot to me!  And still being "preached to" is just as exhausting!!!


----------



## mama13drama99

tennisplyr91 said:


> Except that you are not discussing nail polish and "whatever else". You dont need to have any special knowledge to understand that is not cool to attack other human beings. If you want to comment on their clothes bags etc, fine. But how would you feel if people made nasty comments about your body, your family etc. there is clearly a lack of boundaries and thats what gets me the most.




Again with the policing!  We can say whatever the F$@K we want to say...it your opinion that it ain't cool!!! And that isn't it: it's that it's not in line with all the darn lying going on about what a HEro "she" is and how she look so great (even for 65).  Whatever!  I know longer care to even be considerate.  I will be as I naturally would be but I'm no longer gonna be overthinking and considerate!!!  The policing blows my mind!


----------



## mama13drama99

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Pipe down, lil one. I don't do forum beefs and I'm not about to start so you can miss me with your misunderstanding of my post. Feel free to block me on this here public forum if you don't like what I'm saying.




Exactly!  Many others have the same option too!


----------



## Jayne1

chowlover2 said:


> Agreed! Unless of course she had come out in 1980 and was a front runner of the transgender movement. Coming out in 2015 all the hard work has been done by others,



Yes -- Renée Richards was brave. Christine Jorgensen was brave. Tula, Zoey Tur, Midge Potts, hundreds of others... they were the brave ones. People are acting like Cait is unique, but she just waited until it was safe.  Which is fine.  But it's not brave.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Well........who knows............just a rumor.........
> 
> but didn't they announce that Caitlyn was the recipient of the award like a day after the interview?



Rumour, yes, but it makes everything fall into place and explains the silliness of her getting the award.


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> Yes -- Renée Richards was brave. Christine Jorgensen was brave. Tula, Zoey Tur, Midge Potts, hundreds of others... they were the brave ones. People are acting like Cait is unique, but she just waited until it was safe.  Which is fine.  But it's not brave.



Serious question...What makes these people _more_ brave than Caitlyn? Potts also transitioned right after a divorce, like Caitlyn. Renée Richards transitioned before entering the public eye, as did Christine Jorgensen.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

No way in hell does she deserve this particular Espy. This is nothing but a ratings grab. I am sure five seconds after it airs ABC will announce it was the highest rated ever.


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> Serious question...What makes these people _more_ brave than Caitlyn? Potts also transitioned right after a divorce, like Caitlyn. Renée Richards transitioned before entering the public eye, as did Christine Jorgensen.



I think, because someone like  Renée Richards, who was well known, did it when it was kinda unheard of. I remember, reading in Life or Look magazine, about her wanting to play tennis as a woman and it disturbed me.  A man becoming a woman did not happen! 

There are hundreds and hundreds  of successful, well known people who transitioned since those early days and it is far less shocking and far more understandable and we've all been educated.

Cait waited until it was palatable, acceptable... she even got cheered on. We knew what to expect, what she would go through, we've seen and read about it. Those early trasngenders were treated like freaks. They were the true brave ones. 

IMO.


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> I think, because someone like  Renée Richards, who was well known, did it when it was kinda unheard of. I remember, as a child, reading in Life or Look magazine, about her wanting to play tennis as a woman and it disturbed me.  I was a kid and a man becoming a woman did not happen!
> 
> There are hundreds and hundreds  of successful, well known people who transitioned since those early days and it is far less shocking and far more understandable and we've all been educated.
> 
> Cait waited until it was palatable, acceptable... she even got cheered on. We knew what to expect, what she would go through, we've seen and read about it. Those early trasngenders were treated like freaks. They were the true brave ones.
> 
> IMO.




Agreed! Renee Richards was a tennis player who came out in about the same time frame as Bruce winning his gold medal. To me, that takes courage. Actually, why not honor Renee with the award? She was way ahead of her time. Before that the only transsexual I had ever heard of was Christine Jorgensen who had to go to Denmark for the sex change. It was not done in the U.S. at the time. 


Meanwhile 30+ years have gone by. We see the big story on Time with Laverne Cox as The Transexual Tipping Point. All sorts of Transexual shows and such on TV when Bruce decides to become Caitlyn. I'm not saying he hasn't made a courageous decision, he certainly wasn't in the vanguard, and that's what the award should be about-IMO.


----------



## tennisplyr91

chowlover2 said:


> Agreed! Renee Richards was a tennis player who came out in about the same time frame as Bruce winning his gold medal. To me, that takes courage. Actually, why not honor Renee with the award? She was way ahead of her time. Before that the only transsexual I had ever heard of was Christine Jorgensen who had to go to Denmark for the sex change. It was not done in the U.S. at the time.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile 30+ years have gone by. We see the big story on Time with Laverne Cox as The Transexual Tipping Point. All sorts of Transexual shows and such on TV when Bruce decides to become Caitlyn. I'm not saying he hasn't made a courageous decision, he certainly wasn't in the vanguard, and that's what the award should be about-IMO.




Just to show you how moot that is: Martin Luther King wasn't the first Black person but he certainly was the tipping point. Trans people still are treated as 3rd class citizens. She may not have been the first, but she is trying to do something good for her people.


----------



## tennisplyr91

Jayne1 said:


> I think, because someone like  Renée Richards, who was well known, did it when it was kinda unheard of. I remember, reading in Life or Look magazine, about her wanting to play tennis as a woman and it disturbed me.  A man becoming a woman did not happen!
> 
> There are hundreds and hundreds  of successful, well known people who transitioned since those early days and it is far less shocking and far more understandable and we've all been educated.
> 
> Cait waited until it was palatable, acceptable... she even got cheered on. We knew what to expect, what she would go through, we've seen and read about it. Those early trasngenders were treated like freaks. They were the true brave ones.
> 
> IMO.




"We've all been educated"

This thread begs to differ.


----------



## SpeedyJC

tennisplyr91 said:


> That hasn't deterred any of you to openly share your hatred on something else besides purses.


 
Where exactly did anyone share hatred? I am really asking this because I haven't seen any stand out hate filled comments about Caitlyn here.


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> I think, because someone like  Renée Richards, who was well known, did it when it was kinda unheard of. I remember, reading in Life or Look magazine, about her wanting to play tennis as a woman and it disturbed me.  A man becoming a woman did not happen!
> 
> There are hundreds and hundreds  of successful, well known people who transitioned since those early days and it is far less shocking and far more understandable and we've all been educated.
> 
> Cait waited until it was palatable, acceptable... she even got cheered on. We knew what to expect, what she would go through, we've seen and read about it. Those early trasngenders were treated like freaks. They were the true brave ones.
> 
> IMO.


Yeah I can see how it may have been even more courageous decades ago, because nobody knew what it was. But still, I wouldn't say transgender is well understood. Many people have trouble distinguishing between transgender people and transvestites, for instance. Many people don't see the issue with calling Caitlyn a man in drag. I don't believe we're fully there, and it was about time someone took the next step in bringing awareness to this.


----------



## Luvbolide

tennisplyr91 said:


> Just to show you how moot that is: Martin Luther King wasn't the first Black person but he certainly was the tipping point. Trans people still are treated as 3rd class citizens. She may not have been the first, but she is trying to do something good for her people.





Sorry, bUt I totally disagree with this - Jenner is trying to get her face and boobs on TV as much as possible, and thereby make as much money as possible.  I don't think she has done diddly for "her people", nor do I think she has any intention to.  How does flashing around the results of a transition that some say cost nearly $4 million embolden the vast majority of transgender people?  

To me, this entire situation feel more like a display of narcissism than anything else at this point.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

New promo photo for her new show 

"Gorgeous! Caitlyn Jenner looks stunning in a new I Am Cait promo image obtained exclusively by Us Weekly. The 65-year-old transgender star showcased her beauty in a light pink silk Michael Costello gown.
PHOTOS: Caitlyn through the years
The reality star wore her hair down, and accessorized with simple drop earrings.
Jenner has been preparing to give the public a look at her transition from male to female with the upcoming E! docuseries. In April, the former Olympian revealed that she was transgender during an emotional sit-down interview with Diane Sawyer.
The first promo clip for the highly anticipated docuseries made its way online just two days after Jenner revealed her new identity on the July 2015 cover of Vanity Fair.
PHOTOS: Celebs' coming out stories
"I'm just going to go live life. I'm going to go enjoy life. I have nothing left to hide. I am kind of a free person, a free soul," Jenner, formerly Bruce, revealed to the mag. "[Up] to this point I would wear, you know, Bruce would wear, you know, sweatshirts with hoods on them so paparazzi can't get pictures and all that kind of crap, and I didn't want them to see if my fingernails were polished or, you know, on and on and on. It was just hell." 
"To be able to wake up in the morning, be yourself, get dressed, get ready to go out, and just be like a normal person  that's a wonderful feeling to go through life," she added. "I've never been able to do that; it's always been confusion, it's always been, you know, I've got one side [with] boy clothes, the other side's women's clothes. It's like I cleaned the whole closet out  the boys stuff is gone."
PHOTOS: Celeb LGBT allies
Bruce is incredibly courageous and an inspiration, and we are proud to be entrusted with this deeply personal and important story, E!s Jeff Olde said in a press release back in April, before Caitlyn revealed her new identity. This series will present an unfiltered look as Bruce boldly steps into uncharted territory and is true to himself for the first time.
I Am Cait premieres on Sunday, July 26, at 8 p.m. ET on E!


Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/entertain...-i-am-cait-promo-photo--2015157#ixzz3fzbaETbI "


Looking forward to seeing her do some Good!:lolots:


----------



## Bentley1

guccimamma said:


> don't put it on the porch, if you don't want people to point at it.




LOL, now that's just funny and so true [emoji106][emoji28]


----------



## littlerock

I know those photos are touched to the high heavens but wahh... how did 65 y/o Bruce Jenner become prettier than me? LOL


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

:lolots::lolots::lolots::lolots:


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

her eyebrows are on fleek!!


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> I think, because someone like  Renée Richards, who was well known, did it when it was kinda unheard of. I remember, reading in Life or Look magazine, about her wanting to play tennis as a woman and it disturbed me.  A man becoming a woman did not happen!
> 
> There are hundreds and hundreds  of successful, well known people who transitioned since those early days and it is far less shocking and far more understandable and we've all been educated.
> 
> Cait waited until it was palatable, acceptable... she even got cheered on. We knew what to expect, what she would go through, we've seen and read about it. Those early trasngenders were treated like freaks. They were the true brave ones.
> 
> IMO.





chowlover2 said:


> Agreed! Renee Richards was a tennis player who came out in about the same time frame as Bruce winning his gold medal. To me, that takes courage. Actually, why not honor Renee with the award? She was way ahead of her time. Before that the only transsexual I had ever heard of was Christine Jorgensen who had to go to Denmark for the sex change. It was not done in the U.S. at the time.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile 30+ years have gone by. We see the big story on Time with Laverne Cox as The Transexual Tipping Point. All sorts of Transexual shows and such on TV when Bruce decides to become Caitlyn. I'm not saying he hasn't made a courageous decision, he certainly wasn't in the vanguard, and that's what the award should be about-IMO.





tennisplyr91 said:


> Just to show you how moot that is: Martin Luther King wasn't the first Black person but he certainly was the tipping point. Trans people still are treated as 3rd class citizens. She may not have been the first, but she is trying to do something good for her people.



Wanted to share this, John Oliver on Transgender rights!


----------



## JetSetGo!

This is me talking just as a member, not a mod.

Caitlyn Jenner may be a crappy person not worthy of all this attention (ironic since disgust seems to drive the majority of it), but the world is watching &#8211; and not just on transgender, medical or emotional health sites. Young people are watching and learning how people are treated when a person comes out and shares who they really are. 

Because of that, regardless of how anyone feels about Caitlyn/Bruce/Kardashians/etc, it's a responsibility we all have as part of a society to not stone people for being honest about who they are and no matter what point in their lives they are doing so. Break down every inch of her as a public person, a fame whore, a terrible parent, but not for her transition. We are not at the point yet where society has accepted this kind of change enough to do that. So Caitlyn's journey and our reaction to it are quite important, no matter what kind of person she is.


----------



## tennisplyr91

JetSetGo! said:


> This is me talking just as a member, not a mod.
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner may be a crappy person not worthy of all this attention (ironic since disgust seems to drive the majority of it), but the world is watching *and not just on transgender, medical or emotional health sights. Young people are watching and learning how people are treated when a person comes out and shares who they really are.
> 
> Because of that, regardless of how anyone feels about Caitlyn/Bruce/Kardashians/etc, it's a responsibility we all have as part of a society to not stone people for being honest about who they are and no matter what point in their lives they are doing so. Break down every inch of her as a public person, a fame whore, a terrible parent, but not for her transition. We are not at the point yet where society has accepted this kind of change enough to do that. So Caitlyn's journey and our reaction to it are quite important, no matter what kind of person she is.




I will not comment further because you described beautifully all the things that I was feeling inside and couldn't put in words.


----------



## Bentley1

SpeedyJC said:


> Where exactly did anyone share hatred? I am really asking this because I haven't seen any stand out hate filled comments about Caitlyn here.




Lol, there has been no hatred. 

Anything not in line with those cheering Cait on has been labeled as trans hate in an effort to shame and force folks to conform to the praising they feel she deserves. 

Good luck with that.


----------



## JetSetGo!

ByeKitty said:


> Wanted to share this, John Oliver on Transgender rights!




This is great.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

JetSetGo! said:


> This is me talking just as a member, not a mod.
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner may be a crappy person not worthy of all this attention (ironic since disgust seems to drive the majority of it), but the world is watching  and not just on transgender, medical or emotional health sites. Young people are watching and learning how people are treated when a person comes out and shares who they really are.
> 
> Because of that, regardless of how anyone feels about Caitlyn/Bruce/Kardashians/etc, it's a responsibility we all have as part of a society to not stone people for being honest about who they are and no matter what point in their lives they are doing so. Break down every inch of her as a public person, a fame whore, a terrible parent, but not for her transition. We are not at the point yet where society has accepted this kind of change enough to do that. So Caitlyn's journey and our reaction to it are quite important, no matter what kind of person she is.




This probably should be posted in every last celeb forum on here if that's the case.

ETA: I'm in the clear you said "not for her transition" which I still don't see where that has happened.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

So Caitlyin is doing for the trans community what Martin did for the people

I can't.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Bentley1 said:


> Lol, there has been no hatred.
> 
> Anything not in line with those cheering Cait on has been labeled as trans hate in an effort to shame and force folks to conform to the praising they feel she deserves.
> 
> Good luck with that.




The hatred is still what I'm looking for too.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

BagOuttaHell said:


> So Caitlyin is doing for the trans community what Martin did for the people
> 
> I can't.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

So unable to can right now.


----------



## krissa

jimmyshoogirl said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> So unable to can right now.



I find that correlation so offensive. When people say you can't relate trans to race that's fine. But then they want to coopt the struggle. So not the same. Imagine how many black people who's lives were at risk who wished they could transition out of being black. 

Not to derail the convo, but I still think it's too early to make Csitlyn the face of the trans movement.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

krissa said:


> I find that correlation so offensive. When people say you can't relate trans to race that's fine. But then they want to coopt the struggle. So not the same. Imagine how many black people who's lives were at risk who wished they could transition out of being black.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to derail the convo, but I still think it's too early to make Csitlyn the face of the trans movement.




Extremely offensive and definitely NOT the same.


----------



## ByeKitty

I'm getting tired of the argument of "have you seen any hate in this thread? I haven't seen any, I'm looking but all we did was not unconditionally kissing Caitlyn Jenner's a$$ like the ones calling us out expect us to do". Just like you haven't seen anyone bashing Caitlyn, I haven't seen anyone unconditionally _cheering_ on Caitlyn.

I think reducing her coming out to being insignificant because she's coming out after "others have done all the work" (which, by the way, is blatantly untrue) is extremely insensitive. And Caitlyn is not too late, because it's never too late to bring awareness, especially as long as people don't even notice blatant discrimination, which is the case for transgenders.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

JetSetGo! said:


> This is me talking just as a member, not a mod.
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner may be a crappy person not worthy of all this attention (ironic since disgust seems to drive the majority of it), but the world is watching  and not just on transgender, medical or emotional health sites. Young people are watching and learning how people are treated when a person comes out and shares who they really are.
> 
> Because of that, regardless of how anyone feels about Caitlyn/Bruce/Kardashians/etc, it's a responsibility we all have as part of a society to not stone people for being honest about who they are and no matter what point in their lives they are doing so. Break down every inch of her as a public person, a fame whore, a terrible parent, but not for her transition. We are not at the point yet where society has accepted this kind of change enough to do that. So Caitlyn's journey and our reaction to it are quite important, no matter what kind of person she is.



+1 Thank you. Thank you for articulating that so perfectly.


----------



## Bentley1

jimmyshoogirl said:


> The hatred is still what I'm looking for too.




There is no hatred. People are looking for things to label as hate.  Apparently,  questioning Caitlyn's motives, stating she's not a hero, doesn't deserve an award, or that she's not doing a thing for the trans community and such is seen as "hate." 

Fact is, she's done nothing but feed her own ego and pocket throughout this whole transition and people don't like to hear that.


----------



## labelwhore04

ByeKitty said:


> Yeah I can see how it may have been even more courageous decades ago, because nobody knew what it was. But still, I wouldn't say transgender is well understood. Many people have trouble distinguishing between transgender people and transvestites, for instance. Many people don't see the issue with calling Caitlyn a man in drag. I don't believe we're fully there, and it was about time someone took the next step in bringing awareness to this.



Yes! Coming out as transgender is incredibly brave no matter the time period. It is still an issue that is not widely understood and there is still a ton of ignorance and hatred toward the transgender community, so i would 100% say it's brave. Coming out turns your life upside down. It can change/ruin your relationships, you will be the target of hate/discrimination, etc etc. For anyone to say that its not brave is just really ignorant and insulting. I'd like to see those people who are saying its not brave to come out as transgender and experience the ramifications in their life. Caitlyn is not the norm, luckily for her, her family is supportive and so far everything has been positive for her, but it could've easily gone the other way. So many transgender individuals come out and have no support from their family, their friends turn their backs, they have no money/access to doctors and they face discrimination on a daily basis. So to risk your whole life to be true to yourself is so brave and it baffles my mind how others cant see that.


----------



## guccimamma

she's getting extensions and big boobs...about the time of life i plan to cut my hair short and live in activewear.


----------



## labelwhore04

ByeKitty said:


> I'm getting tired of the argument of "have you seen any hate in this thread? I haven't seen any, I'm looking but all we did was not unconditionally kissing Caitlyn Jenner's a$$ like the ones calling us out expect us to do". Just like you haven't seen anyone bashing Caitlyn, I haven't seen anyone unconditionally _cheering_ on Caitlyn.
> 
> *I think reducing her coming out to being insignificant because she's coming out after "others have done all the work" (which, by the way, is blatantly untrue) is extremely insensitive. And Caitlyn is not too late, because it's never too late to bring awareness, especially as long as people don't even notice blatant discrimination, which is the case for transgenders.*



+1. So many people trying to downplay her transition, smh.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Bentley1 said:


> There is no hatred. People are looking for things to label as hate.  Apparently,  questioning Caitlyn's motives, stating she's not a hero, doesn't deserve an award, or that she's not doing a thing for the trans community and such is seen as "hate."
> 
> Fact is, she's done nothing but feed her own ego and pocket throughout this whole transition and people don't like to hear that.




It's definitely because some of us don't see her as OUR hero. Hero is subjective and I will be darn if I let someone tell me who my hero should be. NO public figure will be for me.


----------



## ByeKitty

Bentley1 said:


> There is no hatred. People are looking for things to label as hate.  Apparently,  questioning Caitlyn's motives, stating she's not a hero, doesn't deserve an award, or that she's not doing a thing for the trans community and such is seen as "hate."
> 
> Fact is, she's done nothing but feed her own ego and pocket throughout this whole transition and people don't like to hear that.



Nope, I think it's hateful to say that she's only doing all of this for money and attention, or that she's deliberately waited until now because people are now so accepting of transitioning (this thread being a nice testament to that). That hits the core of her struggle.

I agree that the way she's going about this isn't the best - but by that I'm not talking about the high heels and the glamour shoots, that I can totally imagine you want to do after finally coming out. The problem is, to me, that she's turning what could have been an interesting docu series into a Kardashian-esque reality show produced by Bunim/Murray (which was probably the highest bidder).

But that's really the only problem I can find. Doesn't devaluate the rest. Just like the fact that she was a bad father doesn't devaluate this transition, those are two separate things. I would say her coming out at 65 after being in the public eye as Bruce for 40 years is more inspirational than it is cowardly.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bentley1 said:


> there is no hatred. People are looking for things to label as hate.  Apparently,  questioning caitlyn's motives, stating she's not a hero, doesn't deserve an award, or that she's not doing a thing for the trans community and such is seen as "hate."
> 
> fact is, she's done nothing but feed her own ego and pocket throughout this whole transition and people don't like to hear that.



+1


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> she's getting extensions and big boobs...about the time of life i plan to cut my hair short and live in activewear.



hahahha You and me both sistah!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

The timing is extremely questionable to me.  Money talks.


----------



## guccimamma

no hate, just the usual kardashian- side-eye, and accompanying comments. 

she is one of them now, can't have it both ways..


----------



## Luvbolide

BagOuttaHell said:


> So Caitlyin is doing for the trans community what Martin did for the people
> 
> I can't.





OMG, I went right past that one.  I don't know whether to laugh or cry at such a thought.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> New promo photo for her new show
> 
> "Gorgeous! Caitlyn Jenner looks stunning in a new I Am Cait promo image obtained exclusively by Us Weekly. The 65-year-old transgender star showcased her beauty in a light pink silk Michael Costello gown.
> PHOTOS: Caitlyn through the years
> The reality star wore her hair down, and accessorized with simple drop earrings.
> Jenner has been preparing to give the public a look at her transition from male to female with the upcoming E! docuseries. In April, the former Olympian revealed that she was transgender during an emotional sit-down interview with Diane Sawyer.
> The first promo clip for the highly anticipated docuseries made its way online just two days after Jenner revealed her new identity on the July 2015 cover of Vanity Fair.
> PHOTOS: Celebs' coming out stories
> "I'm just going to go live life. I'm going to go enjoy life. I have nothing left to hide. I am kind of a free person, a free soul," Jenner, formerly Bruce, revealed to the mag. "[Up] to this point I would wear, you know, Bruce would wear, you know, sweatshirts with hoods on them so paparazzi can't get pictures and all that kind of crap, and I didn't want them to see if my fingernails were polished or, you know, on and on and on. It was just hell."
> "To be able to wake up in the morning, be yourself, get dressed, get ready to go out, and just be like a normal person  that's a wonderful feeling to go through life," she added. "I've never been able to do that; it's always been confusion, it's always been, you know, I've got one side [with] boy clothes, the other side's women's clothes. It's like I cleaned the whole closet out  the boys stuff is gone."
> PHOTOS: Celeb LGBT allies
> Bruce is incredibly courageous and an inspiration, and we are proud to be entrusted with this deeply personal and important story, E!s Jeff Olde said in a press release back in April, before Caitlyn revealed her new identity. This series will present an unfiltered look as Bruce boldly steps into uncharted territory and is true to himself for the first time.
> I Am Cait premieres on Sunday, July 26, at 8 p.m. ET on E!
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/entertain...-i-am-cait-promo-photo--2015157#ixzz3fzbaETbI "
> 
> 
> Looking forward to seeing her do some Good!:lolots:



We too can look like this with $4 million worth of plastic surgery, hair extensions and photoshop.  It's not like Jenner just decided to get dressed and put on some makeup. You can be anything and anyone you want to be if you have the money.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Transitioning is expensive though, if you want to go the full route of softening your features, hormone therapy, extensions, new wardrobe etc.

Upkeep for a born woman is expensive too, nails, hair, whatnot. These gals are just getting to ground zero as women.

Caitlyn is fortunate enough to have the resources to do it. That said, I don't think she's done either. I think we'll see continuing softening of her features, bearing in mind she's 65 years old.

Hopefully it shines a light and brings about some price reduction for those less fortunate, though I understand some procedures are covered once rigourous psych testing occurs.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

What has she done for the transgender community? Is it the transition itself? I'm asking. 

So far I've seen her on the cover of Vanity Fair and I read she did a tutorial on how to polish nails.

I think she has put more pressure on herself to live up to these new expectations than before when very few knew about what she was going through.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

BagOuttaHell said:


> What has she done for the transgender community? Is it the transition itself? I'm asking.
> 
> So far I've seen her on the cover of Vanity Fair and I read she did a tutorial on how to polish nails.
> 
> I think she has put more pressure on herself to live up to these new expectations than before when very few knew about what she was going through.



I get where you're coming from, and on a purely basic level..what I've seen from the Trans-community and comments from them - regardless of how they perceive Caitlyn's actions and the association with the K's, the fact that they have someone high profile, being seen and stimulating intelligent debate about the trans journey is a good thing to quite a large majority of people.


----------



## Bentley1

ByeKitty said:


> Nope, I think it's hateful to say that she's only doing all of this for money and attention, or that she's deliberately waited until now because people are now so accepting of transitioning (this thread being a nice testament to that). That hits the core of her struggle.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that the way she's going about this isn't the best - but by that I'm not talking about the high heels and the glamour shoots, that I can totally imagine you want to do after finally coming out. The problem is, to me, that she's turning what could have been an interesting docu series into a Kardashian-esque reality show produced by Bunim/Murray (which was probably the highest bidder).
> 
> 
> 
> But that's really the only problem I can find. Doesn't devaluate the rest. Just like the fact that she was a bad father doesn't devaluate this transition, those are two separate things. I would say her coming out at 65 after being in the public eye as Bruce for 40 years is more inspirational than it is cowardly.




You have to consider the source and why some may feel the way they do. I'm personally not inclined one way or the other but, at the same time, once all the dust settles, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if next year Cait decided to transition back to Bruce. I can honestly see that being a possibility based on the way this whole transition has been handled. She's made a spectacle of herself and, to some, it's not a reach to believe that the money and attention are at the core of this whole thing. 

Also, I'd like to know how the trans community views her. Based on some of the rumblings on social media , I don't find that she's exactly seen as their hero, in fact, I'm finding the reception to be rather icy, skeptical and even unwelcome.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Could someone explain to me why Chaz Bono didn't get this sort of attention, (besides DWTS). I mean, wouldn't he be considered a role model for the community? Why wasn't he acknowledged for an ESPY award?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> You have to consider the source and why some may feel the way they do. I'm personally not inclined one way or the other but, at the same time, *once all the dust settles, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if next year Cait decided to transition back to Bruce.* I can honestly see that being a possibility based on the way this whole transition has been handled. She's made a spectacle of herself and, to some, it's not a reach to believe that the money and attention are at the core of this whole thing.
> 
> Also, I'd like to know how the trans community views her. Based on some of the rumblings on social media , I don't find that she's exactly seen as their hero, in fact, I'm finding the reception to be rather icy, skeptical and even unwelcome.



Yep, I've said that very same thing too. If I were a bettin' woman, I'd put money on it.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> Could someone explain to me why Chaz Bono didn't get this sort of attention, (besides DWTS). I mean, wouldn't he be considered a role model for the community? Why wasn't he acknowledged for an ESPY award?



I think Chaz actually is a role model in the community. His book Transition was both praised and criticised for how "ordinary" his life was described in the book. Which is as it should be - he's just the same as the rest of us, only he needed some help to get there.

Not sure why he was on DWTS though..but I ask that about most people on the show...lol


----------



## ByeKitty

krissa said:


> I find that correlation so offensive. When people say you can't relate trans to race that's fine. But then they want to coopt the struggle. So not the same. Imagine how many black people who's lives were at risk who wished they could transition out of being black.
> 
> Not to derail the convo, but I still think it's too early to make Csitlyn the face of the trans movement.



Felt compelled to say something about this... I think talking Martin Luther King Jr wasn't a good comparison really because he is such an icon in a struggle that has deeply marked the history of the US. I can't really think of people to compare him with.

However, the atrocities black americans have been through does not give you the right to trivialize other people's struggles. If you are not trans, you simply don't know what they have to go through. It's very insensitive to say being transgender is less hard because you can just...transition, and then you're no longer discriminated against. We've seen that's not the case. Or that you can just opt to live your life as the gender you were assigned at birth and be miserable, but at least you have the option of not being discriminated against. 

That to me is on par with "hey, if you're black you can move somewhere where black people are a majority, and then you're not disciminated against". Brilliant! [/sarcasm] What I'm trying to say is, transgender people didn't choose to be born in an environment that was unaccepting of their traits either. There _is_ a struggle and there is absolutely no need to downplay that.

Caitlyn certainly isn't a civil rights movement leader, and she doesn't have to be.


----------



## JetSetGo!

BagOuttaHell said:


> What has she done for the transgender community? Is it the transition itself? I'm asking.
> 
> So far I've seen her on the cover of Vanity Fair and I read she did a tutorial on how to polish nails.
> 
> I think she has put more pressure on herself to live up to these new expectations than before when very few knew about what she was going through.



It can't be denied that her transition has got millions of people talking about what being transgender is, what it means, and if it should be recognized.

I imagine it would be REALLY hard to do this in front of the world with everyone commenting their faces off on every detail of her change. But clearly she heightened those pressures on herself by transitioning so publicly. That still doesn't give people the right to terrorize her for transitioning in my opinion.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Interesting:



> 7 secs ago
> .@ESPN confirmed there was never a runner-up For Caitlyn Jenner&#8217;s Arthur Ashe #ESPYS Award on.mtv.com/1DhufUC



I do believe this award is publicity driven. Nothing more


----------



## JetSetGo!

Coach Lover Too said:


> Could someone explain to me why Chaz Bono didn't get this sort of attention, (besides DWTS). I mean, wouldn't he be considered a role model for the community? Why wasn't he acknowledged for an ESPY award?



If you think people win awards because they are the most deserving, may this be an eye-opening moment. Often the highest profile people are acknowledged by universities, charities, and such BECAUSE they are high profile and only slightly for their accomplishments. Celebrating famous/rich people brings attention and money to their causes. 

Chaz is not a high-profile celebrity. There were not nearly the volume of voracious sites/threads/magazines breaking down every move he made when he transitioned, though I'm sure he was celebrated in then much-less-recognized community.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Coach Lover Too said:


> Could someone explain to me why Chaz Bono didn't get this sort of attention, (besides DWTS). I mean, wouldn't he be considered a role model for the community? Why wasn't he acknowledged for an ESPY award?




Don't you have to be involved in sports somehow?


----------



## ByeKitty

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Don't you have to be involved in sports somehow?


Nah, Nelson Mandela also got that award...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

JetSetGo! said:


> It can't be denied that her transition has got millions of people talking about what being transgender is, what it means, and if it should be recognized.
> 
> I imagine it would be REALLY hard to do this in front of the world with everyone commenting their faces off on every detail of her change. But clearly she heightened those pressures on herself by transitioning so publicly. That still doesn't give people the right to *terrorize* her for transitioning in my opinion.



That's a pretty harsh word in my opinion.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

JetSetGo! said:


> If you think people win awards because they are the most deserving, may this be an eye-opening moment. Often the highest profile people are acknowledged by universities, charities, and such BECAUSE they are high profile and only slightly for their accomplishments. Celebrating famous/rich people brings attention and money to their causes.
> 
> Chaz is not a high-profile celebrity. There were not nearly the volume of voracious sites/threads/magazines breaking down every move he made when he transitioned, though I'm sure he was celebrated in then much-less-recognized community.



In other words, Chaz wasn't a fame ho and seems to have his priorities straight.
Like I said, it's all about the money, and that works both ways. Jenner and ESPN.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

JetSetGo! said:


> *I**f you think people win awards because they are the most deserving, may this be an eye-opening moment*. Often the highest profile people are acknowledged by universities, charities, and such BECAUSE they are high profile and only slightly for their accomplishments. Celebrating famous/rich people brings attention and money to their causes.
> 
> Chaz is not a high-profile celebrity. There were not nearly the volume of voracious sites/threads/magazines breaking down every move he made when he transitioned, though I'm sure he was celebrated in then much-less-recognized community.



Great point - MTV awards anyone, People's Most Sexiest...the list goes on.

Caitlyn has been in the public eye for a long time, long before this, going back to her time as America's favourite athlete. Yes, she's courting attention (no doubt about that, really) but the interest in her goes back longer than this.


----------



## mama13drama99

Bentley1 said:


> Lol, there has been no hatred.
> 
> Anything not in line with those cheering Cait on has been labeled as trans hate in an effort to shame and force folks to conform to the praising they feel she deserves.
> 
> Good luck with that.




[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;[emoji122]&#127998;
I've said the same or similar so many times!  The more press there is for that conformity the more I stand steadfast.  Caitlyn's revelation of her new found womanhood is a circus!! Bruce Jenner wanted attention as a man and that hasn't changed now that he identifies with/feels like he is a woman!!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Cameras from *Caitlyn Jenner*s upcoming reality show,_ I Am Cait_,  will be with the former Olympic athlete as she receives the Arthur Ashe  Courage award at the ESPY awards on Wednesday night, RadarOnline.com  has learned, so that footage from her big night can be included in the  E! docuseries.

 As the big night approaches, the 65-year-old is having her hair and  make-up done and talking with her stylist, an insider told Radar. The  production company is picking up the bill for all of the services that  Caitlyn receives today.
 Cameras will be with Caitlyn  in the car as she goes to the ESPYs, and with her as she comes off the  stage. Its expected to of course be a very emotional night, and Caitlyn  is excited for her fans to share this journey and very exciting time  with her, the source said.


 But the speech Caitlyn will give after receiving the award is likely to irk her ex-wife, *Kris Jenner*.
 As of Wednesday afternoon, Caitlyn, is not planning on mentioning her at all, a source previously said.
 Caitlyn has prepared a speech and she has been rehearsing it and  reading it to some of her children to make sure that it sounds right,  the insider said.
 As Radar previously reported, Caitlyn will be wearing a dress designed by *Patricia Field*, who is not only amazingly talented, but also a huge supporter of the transgender community.


http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-reality-show-cameras-espy-awards/


----------



## mama13drama99

ByeKitty said:


> I'm getting tired of the argument of "have you seen any hate in this thread? I haven't seen any, I'm looking but all we did was not unconditionally kissing Caitlyn Jenner's a$$ like the ones calling us out expect us to do". Just like you haven't seen anyone bashing Caitlyn, I haven't seen anyone unconditionally _cheering_ on Caitlyn.
> 
> I think reducing her coming out to being insignificant because she's coming out after "others have done all the work" (which, by the way, is blatantly untrue) is extremely insensitive. And Caitlyn is not too late, because it's never too late to bring awareness, especially as long as people don't even notice blatant discrimination, which is the case for transgenders.




(yawn...) I have seen the unconditional cheering for his appearance and for poor him, they are being so mean and hateful!  And sorry, I won't be backtracking to point them out!  His coming out may not be insignificant in and of itself, but it's NOT SIGNIFICANT to warrant a award!!!


----------



## JetSetGo!

Coach Lover Too said:


> In other words, Chaz wasn't a fame ho and seems to have his priorities straight.
> Like I said, it's all about the money, and that works both ways. Jenner and ESPN.



Chaz may very well be a fame ho - or not. Caitlyn is a successful fame ho.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

JetSetGo! said:


> Chaz may very well be a fame ho - or not. Caitlyn is a successful fame ho.



That depends on your definition of successful.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

JetSetGo! said:


> Chaz may very well be a fame ho - or not. *Caitlyn is a successful fame ho.*



That's right, there are levels of success, even in fame-ho land.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Foor for thought. Caitlyn is successful at making money through selling her personal life to the highest bidder. 

The highest bidder does not care if you like or dislike her as long as you are paying attention to her. So, every word you write about her is money in her pocket. People can't honestly complain about a system they are actively and passionately participating in. I mean, they can, but it's hypocritical.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

mama13drama99 said:


> (yawn...) I have seen the unconditional cheering for his appearance and for poor him, they are being so mean and hateful!  And sorry, I won't be backtracking to point them out!  His coming out may not be insignificant in and of itself, but it's NOT SIGNIFICANT to warrant a award!!!



That argument is total balls. I've seen not one poster unconditionally cheering for Caitlyn.  But that continued statement is the same kind of brow-beating and generalisation I've seen aimed at others who aren't slamming Caitlyn outright. So, whatever tickles your fancy.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Coach Lover Too said:


> That depends on your definition of successful.



Depends on your definition of a fame ho. The whole point of being one is money and attention no matter how, and she's got both to burn.
I'd say that's successful.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Call me hypocritical then, I've been called worse.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

JetSetGo! said:


> Depends on your definition of a fame ho. The whole point of being one is money and attention and she's got both to burn.



Fame Ho= One who goes by the name Kris Jenner and appears to be doing the same thing as Caitlyn Jenner.  

Now who's the hypocrite?


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's a pretty harsh word in my opinion.




Yeah, "terrorize" is way out there. Totally reaching, imo.


----------



## mama13drama99

labelwhore04 said:


> Yes! Coming out as transgender is incredibly brave no matter the time period. It is still an issue that is not widely understood and there is still a ton of ignorance and hatred toward the transgender community, so i would 100% say it's brave. Coming out turns your life upside down. It can change/ruin your relationships, you will be the target of hate/discrimination, etc etc. For anyone to say that its not brave is just really ignorant and insulting. I'd like to see those people who are saying its not brave to come out as transgender and experience the ramifications in their life. Caitlyn is not the norm, luckily for her, her family is supportive and so far everything has been positive for her, but it could've easily gone the other way. So many transgender individuals come out and have no support from their family, their friends turn their backs, they have no money/access to doctors and they face discrimination on a daily basis. So to risk your whole life to be true to yourself is so brave and it baffles my mind how others cant see that.




It's not brave for Bruce Jenner!!! I don't care what any of his supporters say.  I absolutely believe that it affects others the way you described.  But not Jenner!  His relationships, if hurt, are hurt because of the circus!!! Point. Blank. Period.  When all the cheerleaders stop thinking he is the face of or represents all people who are transgender...wait, that won't happen...


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Fame Ho= One who goes by the name Kris Jenner and appears to be doing the same thing as Caitlyn Jenner.
> 
> Now who's the hypocrite?



What.... do you mean?


----------



## krissa

ByeKitty said:


> Felt compelled to say something about this... I think talking Martin Luther King Jr wasn't a good comparison really because he is such an icon in a struggle that has deeply marked the history of the US. I can't really think of people to compare him with.
> 
> *However, the atrocities black americans have been through does not give you the right to trivialize other people's struggles.*
> I don't believe I was trivializing their struggles. Or at least that wasn't my intent. What I was saying was you can't have it both ways. Race and gender are social constructs, right? but when someone uses trans racial (I agree this idea is silly) they say it's not the same. But then it is sometimes compared to the Civil Rights situation which I would say is different.
> 
> *If you are not trans, you simply don't know what they have to go through.*
> 
> I agree.
> 
> *It's very insensitive to say being transgender is less hard because you can just...transition, and then you're no longer discriminated against.*
> 
> I never said it was less hard.
> 
> We've seen that's not the case. Or that you can just opt to live your life as the gender you were assigned at birth and be miserable, but at least you have the option of not being discriminated against.
> 
> That to me is on par with "hey, if you're black you can move somewhere where black people are a majority, and then you're not disciminated against". Brilliant! [/sarcasm]
> 
> ^^^ I don't even understand what this means.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is, transgender people didn't choose to be born in an environment that was unaccepting of their traits either. There _is_ a struggle and there is absolutely no need to downplay that.
> 
> Caitlyn certainly isn't a civil rights movement leader, and she doesn't have to be.
> 
> _No one is saying she has to be. I'm just amazed at the media response and the way anyone that isn't jumping on the bandwagon is made to feel bad. Caitlyn has an immense amount of privilege that the average trans won't have. She won't have to worry about employment discrimination, passing or really being threatened the way a non-celeb would._



...


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> Nope, I think it's hateful to say that* she's only doing all of this for money and attention, **or that she's deliberately waited until now because people are now so accepting of transitioning (this thread being a nice testament to that).* That hits the core of her struggle.
> 
> I agree that the way she's going about this isn't the best - but by that I'm not talking about the high heels and the glamour shoots, that I can totally imagine you want to do after finally coming out. The problem is, to me, that she's turning what could have been an interesting docu series into a Kardashian-esque reality show produced by Bunim/Murray (which was probably the highest bidder).
> 
> But that's really the only problem I can find. Doesn't devaluate the rest. Just like the fact that she was a bad father doesn't devaluate this transition, those are two separate things. *I would say her coming out at 65 after being in the public eye as Bruce for 40 years is more inspirational than it is cowardly.*



It's not so black and white for me.

No, she's not doing it for the attention, but she is taking full advantage of the money and attention, she said so herself.

She didnt deliberately wait to change, but she did wait and although it takes guts and courage, it doesn't make her a hero, deserving of an award.  Certainly not if the trailblazers didn't get that award first.

Also, just because she's not inspirational to me, doesn't mean I think she's a coward. Why does it have to be one or the other.

Chaz Bono and Zoey Tur are still very recent and they did it quietly and with dignity, in my eyes. It's the spectacle and the money grab I think we all dislike, as you said.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

JetSetGo! said:


> Foor for thought. Caitlyn is successful at making money through selling her personal life to the highest bidder.
> 
> The highest bidder does not care if you like or dislike her as long as you are paying attention to her. So, every word you write about her is money in her pocket. People can't honestly complain about a system they are actively and passionately participating in. I mean, they can, but it's hypocritical.




And that is exactly what my original post was about. Caitlyn got this award for the "hot story" and how much money everyone involved can stand to make. Caitlyn definitely is not worried about what is taking place in this or other threads. Then the media decides to throw in the word "heroic" to get more buzz. I don't have a problem with her being trans at all. (Please don't think I'm saying she transitioned for money). When pics were first posted of her and the DS interview came out I was one of the FIRST ones in here saying that I'm happy that she get to live in her truth and I could only imagine how hard and conflicting that could've been. Anyone the WILL help people get an understanding out for something the public lacks knowledge of is good in my book. 

HOWEVER, I have a problem with her saying she wants to live in private and doing the exact opposite. Just keep it 100 and say I'm here for the money. Ora's he said on Diane Sawyer, "I had the story all along." Bruce didn't know how to be there for his children, I just can't see how now that Cait is here she can knows how to be there for a community it's that she has admitted to not knowing much about. Raising awareness is more than coming out on Vanity Fair half-naked like your K counterparts. 

Caitlyn came here to win (money and ratings) and that's what she's doing. That competitive spirit is still there. Pretty soon she will make the K's a thing of the past.


----------



## ByeKitty

mama13drama99 said:


> It's not brave for Bruce Jenner!!! I don't care what any of his supporters say.  I absolutely believe that it affects others the way you described.  But not Jenner!  His relationships, if hurt, are hurt because of the circus!!! Point. Blank. Period.  When all the cheerleaders stop thinking he is the face of or represents all people who are transgender...wait, that won't happen...



I'm not sure if you are referring to me as a cheerleader for "Bruce Jenner" (I'm not a fan), but let's just assume that you do. What I've been trying to say is that his transition is impactful, in that it makes millions of people (more) aware of transgenderness. And even if, big if, she is being a phony as you and some others assume she is (meaning she simply stages this transition for money, in spite of all the invasive surgery at a higher age, and the public backlash because many people have trouble processing the idea that Bruce Jenner identifies as female), she still reaches an enormous audience. She has an impact factor.Her transition even made the national news where I live - we don't have a celebrity obsessed culture like the US and they don't air the Kardashian shows here.

I don't know many transgender people (1 highschool friend to be exact), but he was happy that this brought more attention to this cause, that it got people thinking about this. And that's all there is to do for Caitlyn. Let her enjoy stereotypically "feminine" things like painting her nails, I don't care. It's not about the intricacies of her transition, or her personal life. She's not the leader of some movement, she's simply someone in the public eye who confronts us with the T in LGBT, something we are not often confronted with and something many people have trouble understanding.


----------



## Longchamp

Love the Espys! If can't watch it live, then always tape it.  
Caitlin does not deserve her award.  
Have to agree with MDR ( Mad Dog Radio) that Kate Upton did more for sports this year than Caitlin.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Longchamp said:


> Love the Espys! If can't watch it live, then always tape it.
> 
> Caitlin does not deserve her award.
> 
> Have to agree with MDR ( Mad Dog Radio) that Kate Upton did more for sports this year than Caitlin.




See this is what confuses me. I too was under the impression that sports had to be involved somehow to receive this award.


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> It's not so black and white for me.
> 
> No, she's not doing it for the attention, but she is taking full advantage of the money and attention, she said so herself.
> 
> She didnt deliberately wait to change, but she did wait and although it takes guts and courage, it doesn't make her a hero, deserving of an award.  Certainly not if the trailblazers didn't get that award first.
> 
> Also, just because she's not inspirational to me, doesn't mean I think she's a coward. Why does it have to be one or the other.
> 
> Chaz Bono and Zoey Tur are still very recent and they did it quietly and with dignity, in my eyes. It's the spectacle and the money grab I think we all dislike, as you said.



Ah, I tried not to state it in as black and white, because I agree it really isn't. I did respond to a poster that has stated she thinks Caitlyn's primary motive for transitioning is money. I simply threw in counterarguments. I think you are spot on actually, Caitlyn has learned from the best and is milking this transition for all it's worth. Doesn't mean it's a fake transition though. And it doesn't mean that she isn't helping the transgender people either, by bringing attention to this topic and thereby furthering the debate.

I don't have much to say about the award thing because I really don't see how receiving that award is an honor: it's simply the product of a media circus.


----------



## Longchamp

ByeKitty said:


> Nah, Nelson Mandela also got that award...



Nelson Mandela did get it for sports as well as his courage.

Mandela was chosen for his actions at the 1995 Rugby World Cup, which was hosted by South Africa for the first time. After the host national team, the Springboks, won the final, Mandela, presented the William Webb Ellis Cup to South African captain Francois Pienaar. The gesture was considered a major step in the reconciliation of white and black South Africans.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Longchamp said:


> Nelson Mandela did get it for sports as well as his courage.
> 
> 
> 
> Mandela was chosen for his actions at the 1995 Rugby World Cup, which was hosted by South Africa for the first time. After the host national team, the Springboks, won the final, Mandela, presented the William Webb Ellis Cup to South African captain Francois Pienaar. The gesture was considered a major step in the reconciliation of white and black South Africans.




Thank you!


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Jayne1 said:


> It's not so black and white for me.
> 
> 
> 
> No, she's not doing it for the attention, but she is taking full advantage of the money and attention, she said so herself.
> 
> 
> 
> She didnt deliberately wait to change, but she did wait and although it takes guts and courage, it doesn't make her a hero, deserving of an award.  Certainly not if the trailblazers didn't get that award first.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, just because she's not inspirational to me, doesn't mean I think she's a coward. Why does it have to be one or the other.
> 
> 
> 
> Chaz Bono and Zoey Tur are still very recent and they did it quietly and with dignity, in my eyes. It's the spectacle and the money grab I think we all dislike, as you said.




Thank you!!


----------



## ByeKitty

Longchamp said:


> Nelson Mandela did get it for sports as well as his courage.
> 
> Mandela was chosen for his actions at the 1995 Rugby World Cup, which was hosted by South Africa for the first time. After the host national team, the Springboks, won the final, Mandela, presented the William Webb Ellis Cup to South African captain Francois Pienaar. The gesture was considered a major step in the reconciliation of white and black South Africans.



Thanks for the insight, great story!


----------



## Sarni

While I don't believe she is transitioning for the money she sure as hell is making damn sure she gets as much out of this as she possibly can. It's all about her and she is as shallow, self centered and self absorbed as the rest of her fame ho family!!


----------



## shoegal

SpeedyJC said:


> Nope she sure doesn't. Very disappointed and not watching.




I agree too


----------



## JetSetGo!

JetSetGo! said:


> It can't be denied that her transition has got millions of people talking about what being transgender is, what it means, and if it should be recognized.
> 
> I imagine it would be REALLY hard to do this in front of the world with everyone commenting their faces off on every detail of her change. But clearly she heightened those pressures on herself by transitioning so publicly. That still doesn't give people the right to terrorize her for transitioning in my opinion.





Coach Lover Too said:


> That's a pretty harsh word in my opinion.



And yet, it's the only one acknowledged.  

I think publicly criticizing every inch of someone's physical appearance &#8211; body, hair, wrinkles, skin, clothing, etc, in addition to trashing their gender orientation is an attempt to terrorize and humiliate. More important to me is not how it affects Caitlyn, but how it affects others who face this mismatching of body and self. 

We are indirectly telling people their bodies and orientations are up for everyone's brutal criticism. 

So yeah, the word does sound harsh, but so are the comments &#8211; and not just on this forum.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Sarni said:


> While I don't believe she is transitioning for the money she sure as hell is making damn sure she gets as much out of this as she possibly can. It's all about her and she is as shallow, self centered and self absorbed as the rest of her fame ho family!!



Absolutely agree.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Sarni said:


> While I don't believe she is transitioning for the money she sure as hell is making damn sure she gets as much out of this as she possibly can. It's all about her and she is as shallow, self centered and self absorbed as the rest of her fame ho family!!



Oh for sure. Agree.


----------



## Longchamp

Totally off topic. If you're watching the Espys Danielle Green has me crying.
Never knew the part about her wedding rings.

Caitlin up next.

Yahoo Lebron won his award!!!!!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Longchamp said:


> Totally off topic. If you're watching the Espys Danielle Green has me crying.
> Never knew the part about her wedding rings.!



that was very touching


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I'm looking forward to the Stuart Scott tribute what an incredible inspiration he was and still is, I'm battling breast cancer and I truly consider him a hero


----------



## DC-Cutie

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I'm looking forward to the Stuart Scott tribute what an incredible inspiration he was



I just might be crying over Stuart.  Man, he fought it till the end with dignity.  The speech that included his daughters had me like a little baby crying...


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

DC-Cutie said:


> I just might be crying over Stuart.  Man, he fought it till the end with dignity.  The speech that included his daughters had me like a little baby crying...




Same here! I still play that speech [emoji22][emoji22] losing people like that are so hard to accept


----------



## DC-Cutie

Damn!  Epsy's got me with Lauren's story....

Is there an Espy thread?


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Ugh I'm already crying rest in paradise Lauren hill


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Oh Stuart! Someone post when he's on! I will watch that part!


----------



## Tlcsuccess

Lauren Hill rest in peace and know you are remembered.


----------



## DC-Cutie

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Oh Stuart! Someone post when he's on! I will watch that part!



Stuart is up


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

DC-Cutie said:


> Stuart is up




Thanks!


----------



## Hobbsy

Bruce did not deserve the ESPY. $$$. That's what this was about.  Hell, even Bruce knows he doesn't deserve it, won't do the red carpet  or answer any questions.  Proud much?! Yeah right!


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Yea it seems she may have a complex about accepting this award and quite frankly no one put a gun to her head. Has she been spotted in the audience yet or are they hiding her?


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I'm looking forward to the Stuart Scott tribute what an incredible inspiration he was and still is, I'm battling breast cancer and I truly consider him a hero




I missed your post. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.


----------



## ByeKitty

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> Yea it seems she may have a complex about accepting this award and quite frankly no one put a gun to her head. Has she been spotted in the audience yet or are they hiding her?



You just know it has to be a cheesy "big reveal", a "wow moment" when she comes to accept the award so they won't let her walk the red carpet or put her in the audience


----------



## FreeSpirit71

ByeKitty said:


> You just know it has to be a cheesy "big reveal", a "wow moment" when she comes to accept the award so they won't let her walk the red carpet or put her in the audience



I really hope they do this right. But.....


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

ByeKitty said:


> You just know it has to be a cheesy "big reveal", a "wow moment" when she comes to accept the award so they won't let her walk the red carpet or put her in the audience




This is turning into her very own oscars *disgusted*


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I missed your post. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.




Thank you so much![emoji175]


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Oh man the tears flowing again for the Steele family I've been following her story such a brave little girl


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Ugh Leah was fighting back the tears as daddy was cutting her hair! [emoji22][emoji22]


----------



## pittcat

Every time I turn it on I start crying!!


----------



## DC-Cutie

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> Oh man the tears flowing again for the Steele family I've been following her story such a brave little girl



I've followed her story for a while, but never hear anything about her mother.  Does she just choose to stay out of the spotlight?


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I'm not sure if they just live separate lives, I can't stop crying.


----------



## nycmom

JetSetGo! said:


> More important to me is not how it affects Caitlyn, but how it affects others who face this mismatching of body and self.



Thank you JSG, that is how I feel as well.



mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I'm looking forward to the Stuart Scott tribute what an incredible inspiration he was and still is, I'm battling breast cancer and I truly consider him a hero



I am so sorry, I will be thinking about you as you fight on!


----------



## DC-Cutie

I'm really glad the NFL did right by him allowing Devon to receive medial coverage.


----------



## Crystalina

What channel are the ESPYs?


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm really glad the NFL did right by him allowing Devon to receive medial coverage.




That's what I was thinking, too.


I don't think he and the mom are together anymore so she just chooses to let him use his name to help raise awareness.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Crystalina said:


> What channel are the ESPYs?




Abc


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

crystalina said:


> what channel are the espys?




abc


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

jimmyshoogirl said:


> That's what I was thinking, too.
> 
> 
> I don't think he and the mom are together anymore so she just chooses to let him use his name to help raise awareness.




Yea he's thanking the fiancé so they are living life separately


----------



## DC-Cutie

Devon and his fiance's story is one for the books - born on the same day, in the same hospital, next to each other in the nursery...  then got together 22 years later...  Look at God!  Won't he do it????


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Now that's what I consider courage


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

DC-Cutie said:


> Devon and his fiance's story is one for the books - born on the same day, in the same hospital, next to each other in the nursery...  then got together 22 years later...  Look at God!  Won't he do it????




Wow that's amazing!! I love how he told her you can have the dream wedding but don't go blowing up the budget haha


----------



## Longchamp

Leah's Mom hired Gloria Allred years ago and took DEVON to domestic court and splashed it all over the news.  He held out on payments because of the residency clause. It wasn't anything as she  portrayed in the media.
Espy awards always full of sadness because of the V charity.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Caitlyn up now


----------



## mama13drama99

FreeSpirit71 said:


> That argument is total balls. I've seen not one poster unconditionally cheering for Caitlyn.  But that continued statement is the same kind of brow-beating and generalisation I've seen aimed at others who aren't slamming Caitlyn outright. So, whatever tickles your fancy.




(bigger, longer, and deeper YAWN...sorry I dozed off!) Coogie, coogie, coo (*while tickling my fancy*)!


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Longchamp said:


> Leah's Mom hired Gloria Allred years ago and took DEVON to domestic court and splashed it all over the news.  He held out on payments because of the residency clause. It wasn't anything as she  portrayed in the media.
> Espy awards always full of sadness because of the V charity.




Oh wow


----------



## AEGIS

they're really trying to make me think this man is brave....i ain't convinced


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

nycmom said:


> Thank you JSG, that is how I feel as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am so sorry, I will be thinking about you as you fight on!




Thank you so much it's truly appreciated!![emoji175][emoji175][emoji175]


----------



## DC-Cutie

ok, did we really need to see a closeup of her toes tho?


----------



## Longchamp

Was that a golf clap for Caitlin before the music started?


----------



## DC-Cutie

nice dress...  I see got a new weave/wig


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

The dress is beautiful and she looks really good


----------



## Longchamp

She does look good.

Looked up definition of AA award by ESPN

Recipients reflect the spirit of Arthur Ashe, possessing strength in the face of adversity, courage in the face of peril and the willingness to stand up for their beliefs no matter what the cost. The award is inspired by the life that Ashe lived, using his fame and stature to advocate for human rights, although, at the time, those positions may have been unpopular and were often controversial. From speaking out against apartheid in South Africa to revealing to the world his struggle with AIDS, Ashe never backed away from a difficult issue, even though doing so would have been easier. Winners of the Ashe Award strive to carry on Ashe's legacy in their own lives - - inspired by those who do so each day.


----------



## katie1221

She does look really good. Good for her for bringing attention to an issue that gets brushed over a lot of the time.


----------



## DC-Cutie

why did she have to stress 'transgender of color'?


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I couldn't IMAGINE if that were me sitting in the audience looking up at my dad in a dress. That has to be so indescribable. 

I do like her dress!


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Kardashian/Jenner family in the green room


----------



## AEGIS

YAAAASS CAITLYN!!!
you better show up serving!!

and I like his speech


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Janet is beautiful!!


----------



## chowlover2

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I'm looking forward to the Stuart Scott tribute what an incredible inspiration he was and still is, I'm battling breast cancer and I truly consider him a hero




My BFF just celebrated her 14 path year in remission from breast cancer! Hang in there, wishing you the best and sending lots of healing vibes your way!


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

katie1221 said:


> She does look really good. Good for her for bringing attention to an issue that gets brushed over a lot of the time.




I'm so glad she made this a focal point of her speech


----------



## AEGIS

DC-Cutie said:


> why did she have to stress 'transgender of color'?



bc trans ppl of color are the most vulnerable and nobody ever cares to speak to them, about them or for them. and trans women of color have been very supportive of her and her journey.


----------



## DC-Cutie

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Janet is beautiful!!



she is...  she also looks like Evelyn Lozada's daughter, Shaunice..


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

chowlover2 said:


> My BFF just celebrated her 14 path year in remission from breast cancer! Hang in there, wishing you the best and sending lots of healing vibes your way!




That is so amazing to hear and is a great boost of motivation!! Best wishes to your Bff as she continues to live a long healthy life!! Thank you so much!![emoji175]


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Caitlyn served tonight I gotta give it to her, great speech


----------



## FreeSpirit71

AEGIS said:


> bc trans ppl of color are the most vulnerable and nobody ever cares to speak to them, about them or for them. and trans women of color have been very supportive of her and her journey.



I think that was a great point to make in her speech. Acknowledging those whose journey is infinitely tougher than hers.

Just saw photo's. Wow, she is bringing it - looking good


----------



## DC-Cutie

AEGIS said:


> bc trans ppl of color are the most vulnerable and nobody ever cares to speak to them, about them or for them. and trans women of color have been very supportive of her and her journey.



ok gotcha.  

If trans people of color are most vulnerable, are they not being as supportive of one another as they are Caitlyn?


----------



## uhpharm01

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> caitlyn served tonight i gotta give it to her, great speech



+1


----------



## DC-Cutie

DVF wrap dresses work well for her.  I've spotted 4 thus far


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Yes, Ms. Caitlyn has a thing for DVF!


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

DC-Cutie said:


> DVF wrap dresses work well for her.  I've spotted 4 thus far




Yes they do! can't go wrong with DVF signature pieces they work for women of all ages


----------



## forever.elise

That was one of the most moving speeches I have ever heard. Nothing but positivity coming out of Caitlyn's mouth and I give her all my respect. She was probably one of the BEST public speakers I have EVER heard, and she captivated the audience. In a room full of athletes, and many whom I'm sure judged her before, I know one thing is certain, they are respecting her now. You go girl.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> Caitlyn served tonight I gotta give it to her, great speech




That was a really good speech. Very tastefully done with a good message. This is what I've been wanting to see.


----------



## Longchamp

Too bad the show ended on a bad note.  Boo hoo. Best male athlete.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Longchamp said:


> Too bad the show ended on a bad note.  Boo hoo. Best male athlete.




Lol


Dang a five day old? I guess I never paid attention to his wife being pregnant.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Some pics - thank you PBS Twitter


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

She looks great.


----------



## Longchamp

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Lol
> 
> 
> Dang a five day old? I guess I never paid attention to his wife being pregnant.



Yes daughter Ryan. Saw Ayesha at the Finals, looked great.


----------



## pittcat

Thought she was going to get too far into how hard it is to put on makeup and pick out clothes, but I'm glad there was a positive message there and hope she continues to do good for the cause. A little suspect to see a promo for her show right after though... And yes I could have done without the close up of her toes haha

Eta: did anyone else notice that Brett favre did not look impressed as Caitlyn was walking to the stage and gave up on clapping half way through?


----------



## katie1221

I was extremely impressed with her speech. Even though the introduction was solely about her, she made the content of her speech about everyone else. I'm glad she is using her platform for bringing awareness to an issue that no one really thinks about. It was about everyone else but her which is fantastic considering her celebrity.


----------



## AEGIS

DC-Cutie said:


> ok gotcha.
> 
> If trans people of color are most vulnerable, are they not being as supportive of one another as they are Caitlyn?



They are.  But minority communities need allies....and no one has a louder trans voice right now than Bruce so the issues she highlights will be noted.


----------



## AEGIS

pittcat said:


> Thought she was going to get too far into how hard it is to put on makeup and pick out clothes, but I'm glad there was a positive message there and hope she continues to do good for the cause. A little suspect to see a promo for her show right after though... And yes I could have done without the close up of her toes haha
> 
> Eta: did anyone else notice that Brett favre did not look impressed as Caitlyn was walking to the stage and gave up on clapping half way through?



I am sure many looked like Brett


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.justjared.com/2015/07/15/kardashian-jenner-kids-pose-backstage-at-espys-2015/

Nearly all of Caitlyn Jenners children pose together backstage at the 2015 ESPY Awards on Wednesday night (July 15) at the Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles.

Pictured in the photo are her step-kids Kim, Kourtney, and Khloe Kardashian, and her biological children Kendall, Kylie, Brody, Brandon, Burt, and Casey Jenner.

Also featured are Brodys girlfriend Kaitlynn Carter and two other people.

Make sure to check out the kids social media pages for the captions and see more pics in the gallery below.

The kids are all there to support Caitlyn, who is receiving the prestigious Arthur Ashe Courage Award during the show this evening. Make sure to tune in right now to see the special presentation!


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Yea, Brett and a few others were looking like that.


----------



## DC-Cutie

if he didn't want to clap, he didn't have to clap...


----------



## pittcat

DC-Cutie said:


> if he didn't want to clap, he didn't have to clap...




That's the truth!


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I'm thinking he did clap in fear of receiving backlash for not clapping. Everything is made a huge deal today.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> Thank you so much![emoji175]



I too wanted to send get well blessings your way! My mom and my grandma battled breast cancer and my mom is a 30+ year survivor! Wishing you a complete recovery.

I hate being on a different time zone than everyone else. I'm still watiing...and waiting...and waiting but oh my goodness, did that little Leah bring tears to my eyes!  I was proud of Lauren's parents for the wonderful tribute her mom dedicated to her too. RIP Lauren.


----------



## pittcat

AEGIS said:


> I am sure many looked like Brett




Agreed- he was just the only one I recognized at the time! There were a lot of looks given by almost everyone they cut to.


----------



## pittcat

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I'm thinking he did clap in fear of receiving backlash for not clapping. Everything is made argue deal today.




Of course, the policing occurs in real life too! Although there was someone in the front row texting/on her phone while Devon was speaking, which I thought was/would be worse.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm not surprised to read that about Brett Favre. I was wondering earlier how all that testosterone was going to work. I'm sure there's a lot of athletes that agree with some of us, believing that Jenner doesn't deserve the award. They might not say it, but you know there's a lot of them thinking it.


----------



## nycmom

wow...that was a great speech


----------



## Brandless

Longchamp said:


> Too bad the show ended on a bad note.  Boo hoo. Best male athlete.




I missed this part. Can you kindly elaborate?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm not surprised at all to read Jenner gives an amazing speech. After all, Bruce was a motivational speaker for years. As great as I'm sure it was, I still don't believe he's worthy of the ESPY award.


----------



## Yoshi1296

She looked amazing!!! LOVE the Atelier Versace dress she had on!! White is definitely her color!!!
Her speech was amazing too!


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Coach Lover Too said:


> I too wanted to send get well blessings your way! My mom and my grandma battled breast cancer and my mom is a 30+ year survivor! Wishing you a complete recovery.
> 
> I hate being on a different time zone than everyone else. I'm still watiing...and waiting...and waiting but oh my goodness, did that little Leah bring tears to my eyes!  I was proud of Lauren's parents for the wonderful tribute her mom dedicated to her too. RIP Lauren.




Thank you Clover![emoji175] and wow to your mom and grandmother. 30 years of living life after cancer is amazing! Cheers to another 30!! Thank you for sharing, the fight continues!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

* Jessica Steindorff,* the driver of the Prius involved in the fatal car crash in which* Caitlyn Jenner* was also a driver, is speaking out.

 The talent manager, who attended Wednesdays ESPY Awards as a guest, issued a statement exclusively to_ ET_, denouncing the positive attention surrounding Jenner amid ongoing lawsuits relating to the crash.

*WATCH: Surveillance Video Shows Caitlyn Jenner Fatal Car Crash

* I  find it difficult to understand how the culture we live in can honor a  person who is responsible for taking a life and injuring several others  with both an award and a reality show, Steindorff told _ET._  For an individual who is such a positive role model in many aspects of  her life, Caitlyn has failed to do the right thing and take  responsibility for her actions.

I would hope that someone who  seems to greatly value the importance of human existence would be more  sensitive to the fact that she ended another persons life. Sadly we are  living in a tabloid society, she added.
 In February, Jenner was involved in a fatal four-car accident in Malibu, California, that left one person dead. Last week, _ET_ obtained surveillance footage from the crash, which may help investigators determine who was at fault.

*WATCH: Caitlyn Jenner Reveals 'Tipping Point' for Coming Out as Transgender

* Steindorff  filed a personal injury lawsuit against Jenner, claiming she drove  negligently, carelessly, recklessly and wantonly, causing the  collision. She is seeking more than $25,000 in damages. Jenner was also named in a wrongful death suit filed May 1 by the stepchildren of the woman who died.
Jenner  has not been charged with any crime and cooperated with authorities  following the accident, passing a field sobriety test and volunteering  to submit a blood sample for drug and alcohol testing.

The Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department continues to investigate the case.
 Jenner, who officially came out as transgender in a _20/20_  interview back in April, was awarded the prestigious Arthur Ashe Award  at the ESPYs and gave an emotional speech in her first public  appearance. 

Her new docuseries, _I Am Cait__,_ premieres July 26 on E!
    To hear why producers of the ESPY Awards chose Caitlyn Jenner as  the recipient of the Arthur Ashe Award, press play on the video below.

http://www.etonline.com/news/168060...r_crash_denounces_olympian_espy_awards_honor/


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I too wanted to send get well blessings your way! My mom and my grandma battled breast cancer and my mom is a 30+ year survivor! Wishing you a complete recovery.
> 
> I hate being on a different time zone than everyone else. I'm still watiing...and waiting...and waiting but oh my goodness, did that little Leah bring tears to my eyes!  I was proud of Lauren's parents for the wonderful tribute her mom dedicated to her too. RIP Lauren.




30+ yrs is amazing, and I will share with my BFF. She always jokes she is a delicate little flower. I tell her she is a tough dandelion!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Here's the speech:


----------



## Longchamp

Brandless said:


> I missed this part. Can you kindly elaborate?



Ah way OT. The wrong athlete won IMO.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Khoes face had me cracking up in the video.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm not surprised at all to read Jenner gives an amazing speech. After all, Bruce was a motivational speaker for years. As great as I'm sure it was, I still don't believe he's worthy of the ESPY award.



Agree -- she's been honing her skills as a motivational speaker for decades, almost for this night.  She has great speaking and presentation skills.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Jayne1 said:


> Agree -- she's been honing her skills as a motivational speaker for decades, almost for this night.  She has great speaking and presentation skills.



Yes, I agree.


----------



## starsandbucks

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I'm looking forward to the Stuart Scott tribute what an incredible inspiration he was and still is, I'm battling breast cancer and I truly consider him a hero


I'm just getting caught up with this thread but before I went any further I wanted to send you a virtual hug and support. His story always touched me as well. I'm a colon cancer survivor - will hit my five year mark in September. You can do this!


----------



## Swanky

Representatives of Caitlyn Jenner reportedly negotiated her ESPYs award in exchange for PR plugs in her upcoming TV series and threatened to pull out of her 20/20 interview.
Reports have emerged that Jenners team approached ESPN with the idea that she win the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just as details were being finalized for her 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html#ixzz3g1kvJcuf


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Representatives of Caitlyn Jenner reportedly negotiated her ESPYs award in exchange for PR plugs in her upcoming TV series and threatened to pull out of her 20/20 interview.
> Reports have emerged that Jenners team approached ESPN with the idea that she win the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just as details were being finalized for her 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html#ixzz3g1kvJcuf



Geez...that's pretty hardball, even for a Jenner/Kardashian.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Encore Hermes said:


> Welllllll..........an interesting rumor I heard (with zero substantiation) is that getting the ESPY AA Courage award was part of the deal for going with ABC for the interview.
> 
> ABC and ESPN  owned by Disney



Hours later.......



Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Representatives of Caitlyn Jenner reportedly negotiated her ESPYs award in exchange for PR plugs in her upcoming TV series and threatened to pull out of her 20/20 interview.
> *Reports have emerged that Jenner&#8217;s team approached ESPN with the idea that she win the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just as details were being finalized for her 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.*
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html#ixzz3g1kvJcuf



Oh really?


----------



## blackkitty4378

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Hours later.......
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really?


Yes, I knew what you wrote sounded spot on.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, I knew what you wrote sounded spot on.



Thanks and I knew you caught it, appreciate you quoting it.


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> DVF wrap dresses work well for her.  I've spotted 4 thus far





jimmyshoogirl said:


> Yes, Ms. Caitlyn has a thing for DVF!



All those wrap dresses look alike.  I thought it was an old Donna Karan. She used to do these wrap dresses every year&#8230; but we're both wrong. It's Atelier Versace .

Her stylist was Jen Rade, who has worked with Angelina Jolie.



> The star (?) wore a *custom Atelier Versace *cream gown with ruching at the faux-wrap waist. The dress had a medium V-neck, long sleeves and a high slit. And in her all-white look, she stood out from her children and stepchildren, all of whom wore fully black looks by the time the show aired.



http://stylenews.peoplestylewatch.com/2015/07/15/caitlyn-jenner-versace-gown-at-espy-awards/


----------



## labelwhore04

blackkitty4378 said:


> View attachment 3066263
> 
> 
> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



Haha sums up the gist of this thread.


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.justjared.com/2015/07/16...eech-from-audience-with-kendall-kylie-jenner/

Kim Kardashian proudly looks on and claps as Caitlyn Jenner takes the stage at the 2015 ESPY Awards on Wednesday night (July 15) at the Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles.

The 34-year-old reality star was joined in the audience by her sisters Kourtney and Khloe, as well as Kendall and Kylie Jenner.

Before the show, the girls joined their siblings Brody, Brandon, Burt, and Casey Jenner backstage for a group shot.

They watched as Caitlyn accepted the coveted Arthur Ashe Courage Award. In case you missed it, watch her inspiring speech now!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Last photo, is like a colour chart for fake tan.


----------



## chowlover2

starsandbucks said:


> I'm just getting caught up with this thread but before I went any further I wanted to send you a virtual hug and support. His story always touched me as well. I'm a colon cancer survivor - will hit my five year mark in September. You can do this!




Great news! Congratulations!


----------



## NYC Chicky

What an amazing speech - she def deserved it and kudos!


----------



## shiny_things

For those of you who still think this is all fake, at what point would you start to believe her?

If she really did only get the award in exchange for Diane Swayer, that is beyond terrible. That being said, for many people uneducated about the Trans community, this will be a historic tipping point.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Representatives of Caitlyn Jenner reportedly negotiated her ESPYs award in exchange for PR plugs in her upcoming TV series and threatened to pull out of her 20/20 interview.
> Reports have emerged that Jenners team approached ESPN with the idea that she win the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just as details were being finalized for her 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html#ixzz3g1kvJcuf




Raise your hand if you're surprised.

Respect is earned, not given. With that said, I like the dress. 
To quote GucciMama, *that's all I got.*


----------



## Coach Lover Too

starsandbucks said:


> I'm just getting caught up with this thread but before I went any further I wanted to send you a virtual hug and support. His story always touched me as well. I'm a colon cancer survivor - will hit my five year mark in September. You can do this!



Sending blessings your way! Here's to continued good health!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Off topic but (who cares lol)....whose heart melted when little Leah was shown on the screen and thanked everybody for helping her *beat up cancer*??!?! I loved that. Such an inspiration and little doll!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

chowlover2 said:


> 30+ yrs is amazing, and I will share with my BFF. She always jokes she is a delicate little flower. I tell her she is a tough dandelion!



I had no doubt my mom's positive outlook and the inability to keep her down was her reason for such a successful outcome. Stay tough!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Im not wrong because I wasn't referring to what she wore on stage. 



Jayne1 said:


> All those wrap dresses look alike.  I thought it was an old Donna Karan. She used to do these wrap dresses every year but we're both wrong. It's Atelier Versace .
> 
> Her stylist was Jen Rade, who has worked with Angelina Jolie.
> 
> 
> 
> http://stylenews.peoplestylewatch.com/2015/07/15/caitlyn-jenner-versace-gown-at-espy-awards/


----------



## nycmom

shiny_things said:


> For those of you who still think this is all fake, at what point would you start to believe her?
> 
> If she really did only get the award in exchange for Diane Swayer, that is beyond terrible. That being said, for many people uneducated about the Trans community, this will be a historic tipping point.



Well if it was in The Daily Mail it must be true, they never get anything wrong! Oh wait...

I agree, I do think it was a great speech and thankfully it seems many are focusing on and appreciating the message (regardless of how they feel about the particular messenger) since as Jenner said, it's not just about one person at all.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Jayne1 said:


> All those wrap dresses look alike.  I thought it was an old Donna Karan. She used to do these wrap dresses every year but we're both wrong. It's Atelier Versace .
> 
> Her stylist was Jen Rade, who has worked with Angelina Jolie.
> 
> 
> 
> http://stylenews.peoplestylewatch.com/2015/07/15/caitlyn-jenner-versace-gown-at-espy-awards/




Lol THAT wrap dress looks nothing like DVF. I mean besides it being a wrap. The Atelier Versace wasn't what I was talking about. There were DVF dresses during her interviews.


----------



## DC-Cutie

people buy Hollywood stars, oscars, emmy's etc., so the buying of this award for publicity isn't farfetched considering


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Everything that involves this family is calculated so why should this be any different!?


----------



## Rouge H

On a positive note.....
I don't know  what qualifies one to be eligible for such an award however, I do know that the courage this person demonstrated in a room filled with athletes and the world watching through the TV screens is deserving of at least one thing and that is my respect.

It's a ever evolving world we are witnessing and if Caitlyn can help those in need struggling with their identity's by being a positive role model she's won more than any award can bestow upon her.


----------



## BagLadie

I have a very close friend with a transgender child. This is huge for the trans community. Do any of you know how many suicides there are a year among transgender children? While I certainly agree it's bizarre, Caitlyn coming out was very brave and a very good thing for the trans community. Awareness and education is so important.


----------



## Brandless

BagLadie said:


> I have a very close friend with a transgender child. This is huge for the trans community. Do any of you know how many suicides there are a year among transgender children? While I certainly agree it's bizarre, Caitlyn coming out was very brave and a very good thing for the trans community. Awareness and education is so important.







Rouge H said:


> On a positive note.....
> I don't know  what qualifies one to be eligible for such an award however, I do know that the courage this person demonstrated in a room filled with athletes and the world watching through the TV screens is deserving of at least one thing and that is my respect.
> 
> It's a ever evolving world we are witnessing and if Caitlyn can help those in need struggling with their identity's by being a positive role model she's won more than any award can bestow upon her.




I agree.


----------



## Singra

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Last photo, is like a colour chart for fake tan.



Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was working my way backwards from the last post so I read your post first and saw the photo second. 




DC-Cutie said:


> people buy Hollywood stars, oscars, emmy's etc., so the buying of this award for publicity isn't farfetched considering



This is true.


----------



## Longchamp

Not many spokespersons in the athletic community think Cait deserved the award.


----------



## lvpradalove

dc-cutie said:


> i'm still trying to understand why she's getting an espy.  Her 'coming out/transition' isn't heroic




+1


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

She sure has a million times better style as Caitlyn than as Bruce. She looks really good in that white dress!!


----------



## Bzemom

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Representatives of Caitlyn Jenner reportedly negotiated her ESPYs award in exchange for PR plugs in her upcoming TV series and threatened to pull out of her 20/20 interview.
> Reports have emerged that Jenners team approached ESPN with the idea that she win the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just as details were being finalized for her 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html#ixzz3g1kvJcuf




Sounds like Daily Mail is working with his latest exwife to  tarnish his moment. I don't doubt awards can't be negotiated or bought, and I am sure the network knew thus would garner attention, but if Bruce and Kris were getting along the Daily Mail would not gave printed the tidbit.


----------



## prettyprincess

us weekly just did a who wore it better against Angelina Jolie. can that even be a real question? 
what a circus...


----------



## Swanky

*Peter Berg Pissed Over Caitlyn Jenner She Doesn't Deserve the Praise
*





Peter Berg ain't happy with all the praise being heaped on Caitlyn Jenner -- and is now mocking everyone from ESPN to President ***** for honoring her ... instead of military vets. 
The "Friday Night Lights" director -- who also produces and co-stars in "Ballers" -- reposted a crass meme to Instagram following the ESPYs which compares a double amputee military vet to Caitlyn. 
Berg co-signed on the meme with a simple comment -- "Yup."  
Berg wasn't the only star to express outrage over Jenner getting the award -- Miami Dolphins wide receiver Jarvis Landry tweeted, "What exactly is 'COURAGE' these days?" 
He was retweeted by NFL linebacker Sio Moore. 
So, how is ESPN handling the criticism? Michelle Beadle summed it up this way:  
"This rage over an arbitrary award is silly. Courage and bravery come in many forms and faces. I welcome progress for everyone. #BeYou."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3g4cV2hgv


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

This slowly becoming a world of everyone has to agree, no one can say their opinions without getting policed, bashed, called a bully/hater or scrutinized. Robots is what ppl want. Not everyone will agree with this award no matter how it's explained, period. Because, once again, hero is subjective. 

I can respect Caitlyn's transition without seeing her as a hero. You can do one without the other. and it surely doesn't mean because I don't like her strategy that I don't like other trans people or that I am bashing them. Yep, be you, meaning I don't have to like it.


And, she's right a lot of people think she is doing this for publicity/money, glad she can "handle it"


----------



## Rouge H

So, how is ESPN handling the criticism? Michelle Beadle summed it up this way: 
"This rage over an arbitrary award is silly. Courage and bravery come in many forms and faces. I welcome progress for everyone. #BeYou."


+1


----------



## Cocolicious

jimmyshoogirl said:


> This slowly becoming a world of everyone has to agree, no one can say their opinions without getting policed, bashed, called a bully/hater or scrutinized. Robots is what ppl want. Not everyone will agree with this award no matter how it's explained, period. Because, once again, hero is subjective.
> 
> I can respect Caitlyn's transition without seeing her as a hero. You can do one without the other. and it surely doesn't mean because I don't like her strategy that I don't like other trans people or that I am bashing them. Yep, be you, meaning I don't have to like it.
> 
> 
> And, she's right a lot of people think she is doing this for publicity/money, glad she can "handle it"



+1 Million


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Here's the speech:




Ok, this was AMAZING! I got a little teary.


----------



## michie

It's a damned shame that some "agendas" like this are being pushed while other people are still being gunned down in the streets for who they are, too. Very tough to listen to her speech with my eyes closed or even read many of these posts and know that as much as people are talking about intolerance toward transgender people, the word "transgender" could be replaced and seem to fall on deaf ears, as it has for decades. Shameful. Some people know all too well how unfair the world is, as they are seemingly *born* with a bounty placed on their heads. So, when you wonder why some people are more "angry" about this, know that it's hurtful YET AGAIN that the media, the world and everyone in it is once more letting them know that you are not even as important to yet another person you're sharing space with. Very hard indeed for one who has never been embraced to embrace. Food for thought.


----------



## NYC Chicky

Babydoll Chanel said:


> Ok, this was AMAZING! I got a little teary.




Me too


----------



## Cocolicious

michie said:


> It's a damned shame that some "agendas" like this are being pushed while other people are still being gunned down in the streets for who they are, too. Very tough to listen to her speech with my eyes closed or even read many of these posts and know that as much as people are talking about intolerance toward transgender people, the word "transgender" could be replaced and seem to fall on deaf ears, as it has for decades. Shameful. Some people know all too well how unfair the world is, as they are seemingly *born* with a bounty placed on their heads. So, when you wonder why some people are more "angry" about this, know that it's hurtful YET AGAIN that the media, the world and everyone in it is once more letting them know that you are not even as important to yet another person you're sharing space with. Very hard indeed for one who has never been embraced to embrace. Food for thought.



What are you talking about? Im reading what you are saying but it has something more to it that you are not including.... Who has a bounty on their head?


----------



## glamourous1098

Coach Lover Too said:


> Could someone explain to me why Chaz Bono didn't get this sort of attention, (besides DWTS). I mean, wouldn't he be considered a role model for the community? Why wasn't he acknowledged for an ESPY award?



Because he wasn't an athlete?


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Cocolicious said:


> What are you talking about? Im reading what you are saying but it has something more to it that you are not including.... Who has a bounty on their head?




AA men is what I got.


----------



## Lounorada

jimmyshoogirl said:


> This slowly becoming a world of everyone has to agree, no one can say their opinions without getting policed, bashed, called a bully/hater or scrutinized. Robots is what ppl want. Not everyone will agree with this award no matter how it's explained, period. Because, once again, hero is subjective.
> 
> I can respect Caitlyn's transition without seeing her as a hero. You can do one without the other. and it surely doesn't mean because I don't like her strategy that I don't like other trans people or that I am bashing them. Yep, be you, meaning I don't have to like it.
> 
> 
> And, she's right a lot of people think she is doing this for publicity/money, glad she can "handle it"




+1. Well said.


----------



## tweegy

Well... To be fair... Isn't speeches kind of 'her thing'... Didn't she do motivational speeches back in the day [emoji6]


----------



## blackkitty4378

I respect her for acknowledging her privilege and she makes a good point. She can take it but other transgender people shouldn't have to.


----------



## Bzemom

jimmyshoogirl said:


> This slowly becoming a world of everyone has to agree, no one can say their opinions without getting policed, bashed, called a bully/hater or scrutinized. Robots is what ppl want. Not everyone will agree with this award no matter how it's explained, period. Because, once again, hero is subjective.
> 
> I can respect Caitlyn's transition without seeing her as a hero. You can do one without the other. and it surely doesn't mean because I don't like her strategy that I don't like other trans people or that I am bashing them. Yep, be you, meaning I don't have to like it.
> 
> 
> And, she's right a lot of people think she is doing this for publicity/money, glad she can "handle it"



Well said.


----------



## Cocolicious

jimmyshoogirl said:


> AA men is what I got.



Well I thought it was about the double "Is". I guess we will never know. 

Its a damn shame people think the news should be about only one subject/agenda when there are horrible things happening everywhere. Remember its all about equality for everyone...SEX OR RACE. They have a right to have their agenda too. 

but back to subject. Caitlyn looked so good in that dress but does she have an infection in one of her eyes? One moves and the other doesn't.


----------



## tweegy

http://dlisted.com/2015/07/15/heres-caitlyn-jenners-espys-award-speech/


"Caitlyns 5,000 children were in the audience as well as Khlozilla, Kim Kartrashian and The Slow One. Pimp Mama Kris, who wasnt invited, watched it in her lair while saying, Ugh, she looks so fat, to the TV screen as her boy toy/future victim massaged the retractable devil horns on her head."

[emoji23] 'the slow one' always cracks me up


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Cocolicious said:


> Well I thought it was about the double "Is". I guess we will never know.
> 
> Its a damn shame people think the news should be about only one subject/agenda when there are horrible things happening everywhere. Remember its all about equality for everyone...SEX OR RACE. They have a right to have their agenda too.
> 
> but back to subject. Caitlyn looked so good in that dress but does she have an infection in one of her eyes? One moves and the other doesn't.




What is "Is"? Now I'm lost lol.

I wondered the same thing about her eye when I watched the DS interview. I'm pretty sure I didn't pay my attention before the transition but I think I would've noticed that!


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

tweegy said:


> http://dlisted.com/2015/07/15/heres-caitlyn-jenners-espys-award-speech/
> 
> 
> "Caitlyns 5,000 children were in the audience as well as Khlozilla, Kim Kartrashian and The Slow One. Pimp Mama Kris, who wasnt invited, watched it in her lair while saying, Ugh, she looks so fat, to the TV screen as her boy toy/future victim massaged the retractable devil horns on her head."
> 
> [emoji23] 'the slow one' always cracks me up




Aww man lol.


----------



## Cocolicious

jimmyshoogirl said:


> What is "Is"? Now I'm lost lol.
> 
> I wondered the same thing about her eye when I watched the DS interview. I'm pretty sure I didn't pay my attention before the transition but I think I would've noticed that!




Double it. Is+ Is = ....


----------



## tweegy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...efuses-accept-responsibility-taking-life.html


----------



## MJDaisy

I just love caitlyn. She looks beautiful. Her speech was fantastic as well. She carries herself so well.


----------



## Swanky

I was surprised his own children weren't in front of the Ks


----------



## redney

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I was surprised his own children weren't in front of the Ks



The Ks probably elbowed them out of the way


----------



## Cocolicious

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I was surprised his own children weren't in front of the Ks



You think production would put the precious Kardashians behind his real children? How else would they get those fabulous shots of Kardashians every second? Seating arrangements at these events are done for a reason.

Remember when Britney kissed Madonna at MTV awards? and how they panned in on Justin Timberlake to get a reaction. They love getting the money shot. lol!


----------



## berrydiva

ESPN given Caitlyn this award is agenda pushing. I do think it takes overwhelming amounts of courage to finally admit to yourself, friends/family, the world that you are transgender no matter how long you've been living with that "secret" and think it does take a lot for someone who has been considered the ultimate athlete to be this open........._however_, this award was undeserving IMHO.


----------



## knasarae

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I was surprised his own children weren't in front of the Ks



I didn't watch the ESPY's but I saw the speech on youtube or whatever.  I think the camera panned to a full shot of the kids once, and all the other times were on one of the Kardashians smh.


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> Off topic but (who cares lol)....whose heart melted when little Leah was shown on the screen and thanked everybody for helping her *beat up cancer*??!?! I loved that. Such an inspiration and little doll!




Isn't she a sweetheart? She's being treated here in Philly for several months now, her Dad training at a local gym. They were the lead sports story last night, we're all rooting for her to make a full recovery.


----------



## Laila619

Her speech really made me ill. "Respecting people", mmm hmmm sure. Did he respect Kim Howe's life when he ended hers for driving so carelessly? For shame.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Accepting a person regardless of their gender identity sounds like a great agenda to me.


----------



## berrydiva

Laila619 said:


> Her speech really made me ill. "Respecting people", mmm hmmm sure. Did he respect Kim Howe's life when he ended hers for driving so carelessly? For shame.


Accidents mean you don't have respect? I feel like this is one of those "who here is without sin" analogies. A momentary act of carelessness is human, I don't know how that judges one's level of respect. Multiple occurrences? Sure, maybe.


----------



## Laila619

I'm just saying it's very irritating when she's galavanting around and living her life seemingly without care when she ended someone's life not even 6 months ago.


----------



## Sassys

Laila619 said:


> I'm just saying it's very irritating when she's galavanting around and living her life seemingly without care when she ended someone's life not even 6 months ago.


 
You have no idea what goes on behind her closed doors (clearly, because she hid who she really was for years), so you have no idea if the *accident* does not haunt her, but she puts on a smile once she leaves the house. 

What exactly would you like her to do? It was an accident.


----------



## guccimamma

she is an amazing speaker. the dress was perfect. bruce was a phenomenal athlete.  it was all very moving.
i don't believe she has done anything courageous in the last 30 years.  this was a negotiated award for airtime and ratings.


----------



## shiny_things

tweegy said:


> http://dlisted.com/2015/07/15/heres-caitlyn-jenners-espys-award-speech/
> 
> 
> "Caitlyns 5,000 children were in the audience as well as Khlozilla, Kim Kartrashian and The Slow One. Pimp Mama Kris, who wasnt invited, watched it in her lair while saying, Ugh, she looks so fat, to the TV screen as her boy toy/future victim massaged the retractable devil horns on her head."
> 
> [emoji23] 'the slow one' always cracks me up





It's funny 'cos it's true!


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Laila619 said:


> I'm just saying it's very irritating when she's galavanting around and living her life seemingly without care when she ended someone's life not even 6 months ago.



Pretty sure she is under legal advice to not talk about it. Even when some one famous is involved in some legal battle where they weren't at fault they still say they can't really get into it. Maybe once things are all settled she will express more remorse


----------



## Cocolicious

Laila619 said:


> I'm just saying it's very irritating when she's galavanting around and living her life seemingly without care when she ended someone's life not even 6 months ago.



Maybe she didn't mean to kill her. Caitlyns blinking is not in sync.


----------



## berrydiva

Laila619 said:


> I'm just saying it's very irritating when she's galavanting around and living her life seemingly without care when she ended someone's life not even 6 months ago.



The outside is not always a reflection of what's happening on the inside...it's a generalization which, I feel, holds pretty true for most people. That's like saying someone who loses a spouse, child, parent, someone close should not crack a smile or laugh during their grieving period....they're not mutually exclusive. There are many people who kill/hurt someone by accident but have to find a way to go on and return to normalcy in their lives, if not for them but for the people who are around them or they can let it destroy them. I'd take the former over the latter any day.


----------



## Freckles1

chowlover2 said:


> Isn't she a sweetheart? She's being treated here in Philly for several months now, her Dad training at a local gym. They were the lead sports story last night, we're all rooting for her to make a full recovery.




I was balling. Precious precious precious!!!
Ok! Back to topic!


----------



## Sassys

Cocolicious said:


> *Maybe she didn't mean to kill her*. Caitlyns blinking is not in sync.


 
:weird:


----------



## Sassys

ForeverYoung87 said:


> *Pretty sure she is under legal advice to not talk about it*. Even when some one famous is involved in some legal battle where they weren't at fault they still say they can't really get into it. Maybe once things are all settled she will express more remorse


 
This. When Brandy was in an accident that killed someone, she was told to keep her mouth shut.


----------



## Freckles1

guccimamma said:


> she is an amazing speaker. the dress was perfect. bruce was a phenomenal athlete.  it was all very moving.
> i don't believe she has done anything courageous in the last 30 years.  this was a negotiated award for airtime and ratings.




Yep you said it sister!! ESPN/ABC =$$$$$$$


----------



## Jayne1

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I was surprised his own children weren't in front of the Ks



That's right! Good point.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I don't only believe it was all about money, though it was certainly a factor (a big one). And the exposure for Caitlyn.

It comes as transgender folk are about to be accepted into military service, as other high profile people such as Laverne Cox become widely known. As the trans journey has the veil lifted off it.

Sport is really a last bastion. Even being gay is still shrouded. Yes, some athletes come out, but not many. Before Caitlyn , Bruce Jenner was a known athlete, before the K's. He had a huge profile.

I'm sure the community at large saw this is a chance to push boundaries too, even if they may have reservations about who is doing it. I think as well as the other benefits, Caitlyn may have been prepared for the criticism (and some of those stony glares from the crowd) to make that push.


----------



## Jayne1

Cocolicious said:


> You think production would put the precious Kardashians behind his real children? How else would they get those fabulous shots of Kardashians every second? Seating arrangements at these events are done for a reason.
> 
> Remember when Britney kissed Madonna at MTV awards? and how they panned in on Justin Timberlake to get a reaction. They love getting the money shot. lol!



That's true.  They don't have to pan though. The cameras are right there, beside them. The little red light goes on and they do their reaction.  

I always watch for the person in the audience, looking at the camera through the side of their eye, red light goes on&#8230; then they look back to the stage and wait for it&#8230; the reaction shot. As if they didn't know they're being filmed.

Kim knew when the camera light went on and how to react, expect her face is still frozen and she couldn't emote. Waste of an isle seat.


----------



## MJDaisy

Sassys said:


> You have no idea what goes on behind her closed doors (clearly, because she hid who she really was for years), so you have no idea if the *accident* does not haunt her, but she puts on a smile once she leaves the house.
> 
> What exactly would you like her to do? It was an accident.




ITA with you. for someone to say she has no respect is such a shot in the dark. you have no idea how she is grieving privately. it's really ridiculous and rude to make that accusation.


----------



## Cocolicious

MJDaisy said:


> ITA with you. for someone to say she has no respect is such a shot in the dark. you have no idea how she is grieving privately. it's really ridiculous and rude to make that accusation.



But you have no idea either. actually none of us on the gossip/ celebrity news thread have any idea on most of anything happening with these celbrities lol! that is why we are throwing out our own opinions on the subject. What is rude is gossip....I guess we are all guilty of that now aren't we?


----------



## Laila619

MJDaisy said:


> ITA with you. for someone to say she has no respect is such a shot in the dark. you have no idea how she is grieving privately. it's really ridiculous and rude to make that accusation.



Really?


----------



## lovemysavior

I didn't watch the ESPY'S so I can't give my opinion about her speech.  I'm sure it was inspirational to those that can relate.  The problem I have with Cait is that she went from always wanting a low key life to now, "look at me and give me my own show" status. If she really wants to make an impact in that community,  why not take points from Angelina Jolie and do her inspirational work low key and personal. To me, reality shows just scream, "Look at me and what I have and how I REALLY am." It just feels like her intentions to inspire that community is going to become so scripted and fake. That show may not prevent transgender suicide rates any less than the KUWTK show prevents body image insecurity suicide. Just my opinion  &#128522;


----------



## B. Jara

Nvm


----------



## queen

We heard you.  I just do not happen to agree with you.  I respect your and Caitlyn's right to say and do as you please.  Others have the same right.  Practice what you shout.


----------



## tweegy

lovemysavior said:


> I didn't watch the ESPY'S so I can't give my opinion about her speech.  I'm sure it was inspirational to those that can relate.  The problem I have with Cait is that she went from always wanting a low key life to now, "look at me and give me my own show" status. If she really wants to make an impact in that community,  why not take points from Angelina Jolie and do her inspirational work low key and personal. To me, reality shows just scream, "Look at me and what I have and how I REALLY am." It just feels like her intentions to inspire that community is going to become so scripted and fake. That show may not prevent transgender suicide rates any less than the KUWTK show prevents body image insecurity suicide. Just my opinion  &#128522;



Sorry but...Angelina's work is low key???


----------



## FreeSpirit71

tweegy said:


> Sorry but...Angelina's work is low key???



This. I mean Angelina does good work but it's hardly low profile.


----------



## lovemysavior

Well its not filmed for reality to clarify myself and not be stoned...I mean policed... &#128530;


----------



## tweegy

lovemysavior said:


> Well its not filmed for reality to clarify myself and not be stoned...I mean policed... &#128530;



No, cause she's not a reality star. But she is photographed and makes news for her work.

Not stoning/policing (not by me) but you hear about all her stuff cause....well.....she wants you to..As with all celebs...


----------



## usmcwifey

berrydiva said:


> ESPN given Caitlyn this award is agenda pushing. I do think it takes overwhelming amounts of courage to finally admit to yourself, friends/family, the world that you are transgender no matter how long you've been living with that "secret" and think it does take a lot for someone who has been considered the ultimate athlete to be this open........._however_, this award was undeserving IMHO.




I second this all the way


----------



## mama13drama99

michie said:


> it's a damned shame that some "agendas" like this are being pushed while other people are still being gunned down in the streets for who they are, too. Very tough to listen to her speech with my eyes closed or even read many of these posts and know that as much as people are talking about intolerance toward transgender people, the word "transgender" could be replaced and seem to fall on deaf ears, as it has for decades. Shameful. Some people know all too well how unfair the world is, as they are seemingly *born* with a bounty placed on their heads. So, when you wonder why some people are more "angry" about this, know that it's hurtful yet again that the media, the world and everyone in it is once more letting them know that you are not even as important to yet another person you're sharing space with. Very hard indeed for one who has never been embraced to embrace. Food for thought.




+100,000,000,000,000,000,000...


----------



## Jayne1

tweegy said:


> Sorry but...Angelina's work is low key???



In comparison to others -- yes, she is low key, I think.


----------



## mama13drama99

Sassys said:


> You have no idea what goes on behind her closed doors (clearly, because she hid who she really was for years), so you have no idea if the *accident* does not haunt her, but she puts on a smile once she leaves the house.
> 
> What exactly would you like her to do? It was an accident.




More than what he has done/is doing (for HIS own gain and satisfaction)!


----------



## lovemysavior

tweegy said:


> No, cause she's not a reality star. But she is photographed and makes news for her work.
> 
> Not stoning/policing (not by me) but you hear about all her stuff cause....well.....she wants you to..As with all celebs...


 
Oh ok. I  just thought i read on Kim's thread, reality stars where no talent fame whoring people who do charity work for $$ and ratings, so I was just using Angie's humanitarian work as an example of being done low key and not broadcasted on a reality show. I'm not comparing one being better than the other because one is paid to act roles and one is paid to act as themselves so they both have $$$ in common. I think motivational inspiration is motivational inspiration whether done by a reality personality or by an actor/actress. I know we see photos of Angie's volunteering because honestly EVERYTHING about celebs makes it to the news. I don't have a problem if people photograph Cait mentoring and motivating transgenders if that is what she feels she is called to do....I guess to be fair only time will tell with Cait... THAT'S all... (in Miranda's voice from The Devil Wears Prada)


----------



## mama13drama99

Laila619 said:


> I'm just saying it's very irritating when she's galavanting around and living her life seemingly without care when she ended someone's life not even 6 months ago.




Highly irritating!  Use the same platform to acknowledge what happened!  Apologize.  Do SOMETHING...other than wear $3K earrings!  But that's too hard when you're self absorbed!!!  He was sure able to make jokes about being new to fashion and such...he's an idiot in my eyes.  I have no respect for him and no long care to use her/she pronouns for HIM and I really don't give a flying rats behind who takes issue with it!  I guess it's too much of spotlight removal to talk about those who were injured and as well as the victim who died...wonder if in her charitable work she demonstrated any courage!


----------



## tweegy

lovemysavior said:


> Oh ok. I  just thought i read on Kim's thread, reality stars where no talent fame whoring people who do charity work for $$ and ratings, so I was just using Angie's humanitarian work as an example of being done low key and not broadcasted on a reality show. I'm not comparing one being better than the other because one is paid to act roles and one is paid to act as themselves so they both have $$$ in common. I think motivational inspiration is motivational inspiration whether done by a reality personality or by an actor/actress. I know we see photos of Angie's volunteering because honestly EVERYTHING about celebs makes it to the news. I don't have a problem if people photograph Cait mentoring and motivating transgenders if that is what she feels she is called to do....I guess to be fair only time will tell with Cait... THAT'S all... (in Miranda's voice from The Devil Wears Prada)




Lol... Nah not comparing. Dunno... But media doesn't just happen to be there. Celebs are all fame whores at some point. Just some are more hungry for it than others. Indeed time will tell with Caitlyn what her deal is [emoji6]


----------



## mama13drama99

MJDaisy said:


> ITA with you. for someone to say she has no respect is such a shot in the dark. you have no idea how she is grieving privately. it's really ridiculous and rude to make that accusation.




(yawn...) Ha, I guess I'm ridiculous and rude then...I can live with those titles!


----------



## glamourous1098

mama13drama99 said:


> Highly irritating!  Use the same platform to acknowledge what happened!  Apologize.  Do SOMETHING...other than wear $3K earrings!  But that's too hard when you're self absorbed!!!  He was sure able to make jokes about being new to fashion and such...he's an idiot in my eyes.  I have no respect for him and no long care to use her/she pronouns for HIM and I really don't give a flying rats behind who takes issue with it!  I guess it's too much of spotlight removal to talk about those who were injured and as well as the victim who died...wonder if in her charitable work she demonstrated any courage!



First of all, it's incredibly offensive to use male pronouns when she clearly would like to be referred to with female ones.  And you can not "give a flying rat's behind who takes issue with it" but at the end of the day, it's still breathtakingly rude.  Furthermore, she is probably not legally supposed to talk about the accident.  Your insistence on minimizing what she's going through is just a further reminder that we are clearly in need of a platform for discussing trans issues.


----------



## Rouge H

glamourous1098 said:


> first of all, it's incredibly offensive to use male pronouns when she clearly would like to be referred to with female ones.  And you can not "give a flying rat's behind who takes issue with it" but at the end of the day, it's still breathtakingly rude.  Furthermore, she is probably not legally supposed to talk about the accident.  Your insistence on minimizing what she's going through is just a further reminder that we are clearly in need of a platform for discussing trans issues.


+1


----------



## FreeSpirit71

rouge h said:


> +1



+2


----------



## NYC Chicky

glamourous1098 said:


> First of all, it's incredibly offensive to use male pronouns when she clearly would like to be referred to with female ones.  And you can not "give a flying rat's behind who takes issue with it" but at the end of the day, it's still breathtakingly rude.  Furthermore, she is probably not legally supposed to talk about the accident.  Your insistence on minimizing what she's going through is just a further reminder that we are clearly in need of a platform for discussing trans issues.




+3 
And Wasn't Halle in some horrific accident years back and she ran? Can't remember  details


----------



## Sassys

mama13drama99 said:


> More than what he has done/is doing (for HIS own gain and satisfaction)!



How do you know SHE has not been told not to speak about it right now. I bet my last dollar, SHE was told not to talk about it, for legal reasons. For all you kow, SHE could have paid for the woman's funeral, but did it anonymously. You don't know what is going on behind closed doors. It was an accident. People have accidents. Just because they don't talk about it publicly to appease you, doesn't mean they aren't really remorseful about it.


----------



## Sassys

NYC Chicky said:


> +3
> And Wasn't Halle in some horrific accident years back and she ran? Can't remember  details



Yep, she ran right to the plastic surgeons office, to make sure she didn't get a scar on her forehead.


----------



## mama13drama99

glamourous1098 said:


> First of all, it's incredibly offensive to use male pronouns when she clearly would like to be referred to with female ones.  And you can not "give a flying rat's behind who takes issue with it" but at the end of the day, it's still breathtakingly rude.  Furthermore, she is probably not legally supposed to talk about the accident.  Your insistence on minimizing what she's going through is just a further reminder that we are clearly in need of a platform for discussing trans issues.




Again, not bothered.  This right here, FOR ME, is about Jenner!!! Point. Blank. Period.  
It's breathtakingly rude you say???  There are inhalers for that...or maybe an app!


----------



## mama13drama99

Sassys said:


> How do you know SHE has not been told not to speak about it right now. I bet my last dollar, SHE was told not to talk about it, for legal reasons. For all you kow, SHE could have paid for the woman's funeral, but did it anonymously. You don't know what is going on behind closed doors. It was an accident. People have accidents. Just because they don't talk about it publicly to appease you, doesn't mean they aren't really remorseful about it.




I don't know what HE was told!  Nor do any of HIS cheerleaders (HE is an athlete after all). Following advice about not talking about it, etc. is STILL self-serving!!!  HE is protecting HIMSELF!!! No protection for those affected!  And the same applies to the others involved in accidents!!!


----------



## ByeKitty

mama13drama99 said:


> Again, not bothered.  This right here, FOR ME, is about Jenner!!! Point. Blank. Period.
> It's breathtakingly rude you say???  There are inhalers for that...or maybe an app!





mama13drama99 said:


> I don't know what HE was told!  Nor do any of HIS cheerleaders (HE is an athlete after all). Following advice about not talking about it, etc. is STILL self-serving!!!  HE is protecting HIMSELF!!! No protection for those affected!  And the same applies to the others involved in accidents!!!



I just cannnn't.... I really can't.


----------



## Sassys

mama13drama99 said:


> Again, not bothered.  This right here, FOR ME, is about Jenner!!! Point. Blank. Period.
> It's breathtakingly rude you say???  There are inhalers for that...or maybe an app!



So may I ask this. Would it be okay for Caitlyn to be formally introduced to you, but then turn around and only refer to you by the N word. Would it be okay for you to say to her, uh, my name is _____ not the N word and she replies, no I think I will call you N word.


----------



## mama13drama99

All the policing and ridicule here makes me totally numb to all of it that will continue moving forward...I'm sure the PM's amongst the few here who are so appalled that there are just some remarks they can't post publicly will continue...so be it!  I have shared my opinions respectfully and such but my mind yet continued to be blown by the "press" that spewed forth, which basically translated to, IMO, that if any comments weren't onboard with HE is beautiful, HE is courageous, the sun rises and sets in HIS behind, etc. then is was hateful and intolerant of ALL transgender people.  It's beyond annoying!!!!  If some think HE is the most beautiful person in the world, that HE walks on water, that HE this, or that HE that, it's wonderfully great!  It's rainbows and ice cream!!!  But HE is not a hero to others.  HE, regardless of being 65 years old, looks like the MAN he lived as for those 65 years, irrespective of what HE hid or felt like on the inside!!!  HE doesn't slay anything.  HE is always captured looking like a deer in headlights or a fish out of water (guess HIS breath is taken away too!)!!!  HE doesn't serve anything but more to baffle those of us who think and feel the things I've already described.  I don't think or see courage when I see HIM or hear HIS names!!!  I think and believe that HE is self-absorbed and self-centered!!!  And at this point, there may be many here who just are completely applaud by my thoughts and opinions, and that is fine...please skip my comments...you see the name before you see the post...govern yourself accordingly if you would like.  But my responses and retorts will be the same! #BeYou #CauseImDarnSureBeingMe


----------



## mama13drama99

ByeKitty said:


> I just cannnn't.... I really can't.




Great...finally...so I should be able to expect not to be quoted BYE you, yes!?!?  Please and thank you!



Sassys said:


> So may I ask this. Would it be okay for Caitlyn to be formally introduced to you, but then turn around and only refer to you by the N word. Would it be okay for you to say to her, uh, my name is _____ not the N word and she replies, no I think I will call you N word.




Yes, if it so pleases HIM...SMH...
I'm not about to play into this!



mama13drama99 said:


> Yes, if it so pleases HIM...SMH...
> I'm not about to play into this!




Part of the issue is the cheerleaders don't know how to separate...

My life is greatly affected by people who are marginalized or are not socially accepted!!!  Drug users, gay men (just had a cousin who knew/believed he was gay at a very young age...father was gay and died of full blown AIDS...move in with me...and it's nothing that I'm bragging about either), people who have records for life due to some stupid they did when they were 19/20 years old!!!  THIS DARN THREAD IS ABOUT JENNER!!! I didn't care for Jenner before HE wanted to become what HE feels HE always was and I do not care for HIM now!!!!  That's it and that's all!!!


----------



## Rouge H

mama13drama99 said:


> Again, not bothered.  This right here, FOR ME, is about Jenner!!! Point. Blank. Period.
> It's breathtakingly rude you say???  There are inhalers for that...or maybe an app!


There are ways of expressing ones views and opinions with out having to digress into insults against others or referring to inhalers for those who's lives depend on this medication for Asthma. That comment was insensitive and uncalled for!


----------



## mama13drama99

Rouge H said:


> There are ways of expressing ones views and opinions with out having to digress into insults against others or referring to inhalers for those who's lives depend on this medication for Asthma. That comment was insensitive and uncalled for!




OMG...please stop quoting me!!!  Please!!!  Just like Jenner, you and others, take comments and want to push your own agenda with them!!!!  It's freaking okay to call my comment breathtaking rude and not okay for me to basically tell you what you and your description can go???  Got it!!! Again, stop quoting me!!! And lesson learned here in this thread.  I'll give my two cents without directly including anyone else's posts.  My goodness...if I shake my head any harder I'll need pain meds!


----------



## glamourous1098

mama13drama99 said:


> Again, not bothered.  This right here, FOR ME, is about Jenner!!! Point. Blank. Period.
> It's breathtakingly rude you say???  There are inhalers for that...or maybe an app!



I'm sorry, but I fail to see about how being FOR YOU makes it less offensive.  If you call someone the N word FOR YOU, is it somehow not offensive?  Also, I don't need an inhaler, but thanks for the offer.


----------



## glamourous1098

mama13drama99 said:


> OMG...please stop quoting me!!!  Please!!!  Just like Jenner, you and others, take comments and want to push your own agenda with them!!!!  It's freaking okay to call my comment breathtaking rude and not okay for me to basically tell you what you and your description can go???  Got it!!! Again, stop quoting me!!! And lesson learned here in this thread.  I'll give my two cents without directly including anyone else's posts.  My goodness...if I shake my head any harder I'll need pain meds!



How often do you need to be told that "your two cents" is incredibly offensive.  Furthermore, it was I and not Rouge H who called your comment breathtakingly rude.  And I'm so sorry that we are shoving our agenda of basic human decency down your throat.  Jeez Louise.


----------



## Cocolicious

Rouge H said:


> There are ways of expressing ones views and opinions with out having to digress into insults against others or referring to inhalers for those who's lives depend on this medication for Asthma. That comment was insensitive and uncalled for!


.   Omg! Sorry is this sarcasm? ! I have asthma and I didn't find it insensitive or rude. It was actually funny. 


Is it a full moon tonight? Please, to all the Selenographist out there..I hope you don't take that as rude.


----------



## Rouge H

I'm not going to quote you.....just place you on ignore....as I recommend everyone else to do the same!


----------



## pittcat

For those that say we don't know what went on/is going on behind closed doors and what Caitlyn may or may have not done for the victim of the car crash, the other party spoke out at the espys pretty negatively about her and the family of the dead woman is still suing, I think that makes it pretty obvious that Caitlyn did nothing to show remorse/condolences (I'm talking about something other than a lawyers statement) to either party. You may say that is good business to protect yourself, but those directly involved don't seem to see it that way.  

I would hope that someone who seems to greatly value the importance of human existence would be more sensitive to the fact that she ended another persons life. That is what the other person had to say and if anyone should be able to understand protecting yourself/your interests it would appear she should based on her job in pr/talent management, but she is still calling for Caitlyn to  do the right thing and take responsibility for her actions.


----------



## NYC Chicky

Sassys said:


> Yep, she ran right to the plastic surgeons office, to make sure she didn't get a scar on her forehead.




Yes! That was it


----------



## berrydiva

pittcat said:


> For those that say we don't know what went on/is going on behind closed doors and what Caitlyn may or may have not done for the victim of the car crash, the other party spoke out at the espys pretty negatively about her and *the family of the dead woman is still suing, I think that makes it pretty obvious that Caitlyn did nothing to show remorse/condolences* (I'm talking about something other than a lawyers statement) to either party. You may say that is good business to protect yourself, but those directly involved don't seem to see it that way.
> 
> &#8220;I would hope that someone who seems to greatly value the importance of human existence would be more sensitive to the fact that she ended another person&#8217;s life.&#8221; That is what the other person had to say and if anyone should be able to understand protecting yourself/your interests it would appear she should based on her job in pr/talent management, but she is still calling for Caitlyn to  &#8220;do the right thing and take responsibility for her actions.&#8221;


Huh?! They would still sue even if she did something to "show" remorse. People sue folks who have money, they don't go and retract the lawsuit even if said person apologized....as the young kids say "where they do that at?" The only thing that makes the lawsuit not see a court is when it's settled out of court. Is Caitlyn supposed to show up at the woman's house with a check for $50 billion dollars? 

I don't really understand when people say "take responsibility for [your] actions" when someone accidentally kills someone. Should they take their own life too? Because that would be fair; life for life. What exactly is "the responsibility" that will ever make it just/even/fair? They can try to make it right/just but right/just would be going to jail. I guess you can ask to be thrown in jail but I don't know how that would work. lol.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Whew! This thread is like the gift that keeps giving.


----------



## Cocolicious

Haha! Ignore someone for not having the same view or opioion as you...what's the point of this forum then? What a bore it would be if we all thought a like.


----------



## berrydiva

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Whew! This thread is like the gift that keeps giving.


That's why sometimes I just walk in and walk out. What's funny is that it's actually the same exact argument on both sides...tolerance.


----------



## Cocolicious

mama13drama99 said:


> Yes, if it so pleases HIM...SMH...
> I'm not about to play into this!



Don't take that bait.


----------



## berrydiva

Cocolicious said:


> Don't take that bait.


Let's not instigate please.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

berrydiva said:


> That's why sometimes I just walk in and walk out. What's funny is that it's actually the same exact argument on both sides...tolerance.




Yep!


----------



## pittcat

berrydiva said:


> Huh?! They would still sue even if she did something to "show" remorse. People sue folks who have money, they don't go and retract the lawsuit even if said person apologized....as the young kids say "where they do that at?" The only thing that makes the lawsuit not see a court is when it's settled out of court.
> 
> I don't really understand when people say "take responsibility for [your] actions" when someone accidentally kills someone. Should they take their own life too? Because that would be fair. What exactly is "the responsibility" that will ever make it just/even/fair? I guess you can ask to be thrown in jail but I don't know how that would work. lol




I don't know I read the other women who I quoted is suing for $25k... Doesn't seem like that big of a pay day, seems to be more of wanting to have some guilt applied to Caitlyn.  Why wouldn't she just settle out of court to avoid the bad press or is causing someone's death (I realize she won't be charged, so legally she did not cause it) considered all press is good press?  My point was this other woman was speaking out about the issue and still clearly upset, so those that say she may have made donations, this that and the other, it's my opinion that did not happen (I threw the suing in there as an after thought, you're right that would likely not change).  

Was there even a ticket given? I just don't like the (seemingly) cavalier attitude... And all of the "deals" going on... It just doesn't sit right with me.  I don't know what responsibility she should take herself since she won't be charged, settling the lawsuits might be a good start, maybe that is what the Prius driver is referring to if she was injured/out of work because of the accident.


----------



## Cocolicious

berrydiva said:


> that's why sometimes i just walk in and walk out. What's funny is that it's actually the same exact argument on both sides...tolerance.



+1


----------



## Cocolicious

berrydiva said:


> Let's not instigate please.



Haha! That's not instigating.


----------



## Hobbsy

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Representatives of Caitlyn Jenner reportedly negotiated her ESPYs award in exchange for PR plugs in her upcoming TV series and threatened to pull out of her 20/20 interview.
> Reports have emerged that Jenners team approached ESPN with the idea that she win the Arthur Ashe Courage Award just as details were being finalized for her 20/20 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ugs-Diane-Sawyer-interview.html#ixzz3g1kvJcuf



Smh. Doesn't surprise me at all. Ugh.


----------



## Hobbsy

He is a he still and I will continue to call him a he or Bruce. He, on the other hand can call me whatever he so chooses! For right now it's a free country.


----------



## Hobbsy

This is who should have won. This is a hero. (Heroine)


----------



## Hobbsy

And Danielle Green didn't DEMAND respect, she didn't need to, she EARNED it!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mama13drama99 said:


> Highly irritating!  Use the same platform to acknowledge what happened!  Apologize.  Do SOMETHING...other than wear $3K earrings!  But that's too hard when you're self absorbed!!!  He was sure able to make jokes about being new to fashion and such...he's an idiot in my eyes.  I have no respect for him and no long care to use her/she pronouns for HIM and I really don't give a flying rats behind who takes issue with it!  I guess it's too much of spotlight removal to talk about those who were injured and as well as the victim who died...wonder if in her charitable work she demonstrated any courage!



You can sit with me at lunch.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hobbsy said:


> And Danielle Green didn't DEMAND respect, she didn't need to, she EARNED it!


I think you missed the point entirely about trans people, equality and respect.


----------



## Hobbsy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think you missed the point entirely about trans people, equality and respect.



I didn't miss anything!


----------



## blackkitty4378

Bigotry isn't illegal! It's just... not preferable I guess.


----------



## Hobbsy

There's something rotten in Denmark if you have to demand respect.  Everyone should know that?!


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> How do you know SHE has not been told not to speak about it right now. I bet my last dollar, SHE was told not to talk about it, for legal reasons. *For all you kow, SHE could have paid for the woman's funeral, but did it anonymously.* You don't know what is going on behind closed doors. It was an accident. People have accidents. Just because they don't talk about it publicly to appease you, doesn't mean they aren't really remorseful about it.



This is a bit off topic, but he guy who wrote the Vanity Fair article was interviewed and among the many things he said, was that Jenner was the cheapest person ever. He wrote that Jenner made him help move his furniture and boxes to the new Malibu place (along with one Jenner son) because he was too cheap to get a mover. 

(I'm using the male pronoun, because Bruce was still Bruce at the time and the writer said Bruce.)

Anyway, not saying Cait did not pay for the funeral, but according to this writer, she doesn't like to part with her money.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hobbsy said:


> There's something rotten in Denmark if you have to demand respect.  Everyone should know that?!



This is from Caitlyn's speech. A word for word quote. Please show me where she DEMANDS it.



> Trans people deserve something vital &#8212; they deserve your respect. And from that respect comes a more compassionate community, a more empathetic society, and a better world for all of us.



I only see a request for equal respect and inclusivity.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

This poor child fought with everything she had just to live. She too deserved the award, but as we all know it's not always about who deserves it, but who'll bring in the biggest bucks. Speaking of big bucks, she raised $1 million for pediatric cancer before cancer took her life.
Caitlyn Jenner can spend $4 million more dollars on herself but she'll never be the person Lauren Hill was. Not even close.












If you didn't see her interview on The View, right before her passing, I encourage you to watch it. It puts Caitlyn's  speech to shame. She's a true champion of courage.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...-exclusive-preview-of-lauren-hill-on-the-view


----------



## Coach Lover Too

chowlover2 said:


> Isn't she a sweetheart? She's being treated here in Philly for several months now, her Dad training at a local gym. They were the lead sports story last night, we're all rooting for her to make a full recovery.



She is beyond adorable and such an old soul. I just love her to pieces! It was really touching to see how involved her dad has been too. The story he told where she was taking the cancer out of her and giving it to him brought tears. I so hope she lives a long and healthy life.


----------



## guccimamma

damn.


----------



## mama13drama99

Cocolicious said:


> .   Omg! Sorry is this sarcasm? ! I have asthma and I didn't find it insensitive or rude. It was actually funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it a full moon tonight? Please, to all the Selenographist out there..I hope you don't take that as rude.




Exactly!  I said it comically because I can't believe the high and mighty!!!  I suffered from Asthma terribly as a child.  Only had a few episodes as an adult.  So no punches thrown as people who live with it.  But again, the reaching they do here is unbelievable!!!!


----------



## Freckles1

Coach Lover Too said:


> This poor child fought with everything she had just to live. She too deserved the award, but as we all know it's not always about who deserves it, but who'll bring in the biggest bucks. Speaking of big bucks, she raised $1 million for pediatric cancer before cancer took her life.
> Caitlyn Jenner can spend $4 million more dollars on herself but she'll never be the person Lauren Hill was. Not even close.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't see her interview on The View, right before her passing, I encourage you to watch it. It puts Caitlyn's  speech to shame. She's a true champion of courage.
> 
> http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...-exclusive-preview-of-lauren-hill-on-the-view




Plus a million!!!


----------



## Hobbsy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> This is from Caitlyn's speech. A word for word quote. Please show me where she DEMANDS it.
> 
> 
> 
> I only see a request for equal respect and inclusivity.



Respect is earned.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> This poor child fought with everything she had just to live. She too deserved the award, but as we all know it's not always about who deserves it, but who'll bring in the biggest bucks. Speaking of big bucks, she raised $1 million for pediatric cancer before cancer took her life.
> Caitlyn Jenner can spend $4 million more dollars on herself but she'll never be the person Lauren Hill was. Not even close.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't see her interview on The View, right before her passing, I encourage you to watch it. It puts Caitlyn's  speech to shame. She's a true champion of courage.
> 
> http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...-exclusive-preview-of-lauren-hill-on-the-view



Lauren was a champion in many ways!!


----------



## mama13drama99

glamourous1098 said:


> I'm sorry, but I fail to see about how being FOR YOU makes it less offensive.  If you call someone the N word FOR YOU, is it somehow not offensive?  Also, I don't need an inhaler, but thanks for the offer.




The point was I was speaking for myself!!! I get that you think feel believe what you do.  The same applies for me.  I am no longer trying to prevent folks from taking offense to what I think feel and believe about JENNER!!!  I don't care to because it's been demonstrated that that won't happen!!! 



glamourous1098 said:


> How often do you need to be told that "your two cents" is incredibly offensive.  Furthermore, it was I and not Rouge H who called your comment breathtakingly rude.  And I'm so sorry that we are shoving our agenda of basic human decency down your throat.  Jeez Louise.




Actually don't tell me a darn thing and we'll be good cause I darn sure don't NEED to be told a thing about two cents or anything else!!!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hobbsy said:


> Respect is earned.



Respect for your fellow human beings and equality should be pretty basic.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Freckles1 said:


> Plus a million!!!



That was her whole reason for doing that last interview. She wanted to bring awareness to the disease and it took everything she had to get through that interview. She was in so much distress but she did it with everything she had.
If you watch the interview, you might want to have some kleenex handy because I guarantee you'll have tears. :*(


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Hobbsy said:


> Lauren was a champion in many ways!!



She was for sure. She deserved a LOT more than just a recognition last night. I don't know how her parents managed to get through it without breaking down. Bless them.


----------



## guccimamma

lauren would probably say to let caitlyn have her moment. she wasn't about all that.


----------



## mama13drama99

Cocolicious said:


> Don't take that bait.




You saw that huh???  I was about to say a lot about how it was simply that: bait.  But then thought the better of it.  So yes, HE sure can do/say whatever it was she was offering and I'm okay with HIM doing it!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> lauren would probably say to let caitlyn have her moment. she wasn't about all that.



You are SO right. The only thing she hoped for was awareness and a cure. Plain and simple.


----------



## Hobbsy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Respect for your fellow human beings and equality should be pretty basic.



Do you respect the guy who murdered 4 people today?


----------



## Hobbsy

Respect is earned.


----------



## labelwhore04

Some comments in here make me so angry that i'll just have to let myself out. Its not even worth my breath. Its so sad how intolerant people still are in 2015. Some people choose to stay ignorant so there's no point in trying.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hobbsy said:


> Do you respect the guy who murdered 4 people today?



I beg your pardon? You are being ridiculous.

He is a murderer who had NO respect for human life.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that Jenner didn't *respectfully decline* the award and insist it be given to one of the others, instead of demanding it be given to him or else!


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> You can sit with me at lunch.




Well now, I wasn't going to say one word to you because I felt like it would certainly be perceived as a whole lot of nothing...because that seems to happen with the agenda shoving.  But since you rang Coach...boy oh boy, and I know I can't begin to understand how you felt early on when posting in this thread.  You my dear are on my hero list...and Bruce Jenner (nor HIS new identity) still isn't!!!  I'm so glad you never backed down.  They see/hear/read what they want and want to make any contradicting post apply to all people who are transgender.  I'm sick of it!!


----------



## Hobbsy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I beg your pardon? You are being ridiculous.
> 
> He is a murderer who had NO respect for human life.



Exactly. Just because someone is transgender they need to be respected?!!! For the last time, respect is earned.


----------



## Hobbsy

It doesn't matter what race, color, sex you are, you earn respect. Plain, simple and the end.


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> This poor child fought with everything she had just to live. She too deserved the award, but as we all know it's not always about who deserves it, but who'll bring in the biggest bucks. Speaking of big bucks, she raised $1 million for pediatric cancer before cancer took her life.
> Caitlyn Jenner can spend $4 million more dollars on herself but she'll never be the person Lauren Hill was. Not even close.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't see her interview on The View, right before her passing, I encourage you to watch it. It puts Caitlyn's  speech to shame. She's a true champion of courage.
> 
> http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news...-exclusive-preview-of-lauren-hill-on-the-view




How much courage is that??? It's overwhelming!  And no self-serving with Lauren Hill!!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hobbsy said:


> It doesn't matter what race, color, sex you are, you earn respect. Plain, simple and the end.



No, that's only the extent of your OWN line of thinking.


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that Jenner didn't *respectfully decline* the award and insist it be given to one of the others, instead of demanding it be given to him or else!




Right!!! But that's courage and heroic isn't it???


----------



## Hobbsy

mama13drama99 said:


> How much courage is that??? It's overwhelming!  And no self-serving with Lauren Hill!!



I did see this. She had such a hard story but fought to the end!


----------



## Hobbsy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> No, that's only the extent of your OWN line of thinking.



Sure. You respect everyone. Ok. Bye.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hobbsy said:


> Sure. You respect everyone. Ok. Bye.



Regardless of how I think of Caitlyn's personal actions (the accident, the media courting etc) her speech was valid.

And yes..lol. I respect everyone's right to equality and basic respect. Some people have to battle harder for it than straight, white people.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mama13drama99 said:


> Well now, I wasn't going to say one word to you because I felt like it would certainly be perceived as a whole lot of nothing...because that seems to happen with the agenda shoving.  But since you rang Coach...boy oh boy, and I know I can't begin to understand how you felt early on when posting in this thread.  You my dear are on my hero list...and Bruce Jenner (nor HIS new identity) still isn't!!!  I'm so glad you never backed down.  They see/hear/read what they want and want to make any contradicting post apply to all people who are transgender.  I'm sick of it!!




Well when you get to be my age you find out that you're not easily intimidated.
I understand people have differences of opinions and it's a highly charged subject but my biggest frustration was trying to make people understand that we need to take gender identity out of the equation and just focus on Bruce/Caitlyn as a person. I didn't care for him then, and I care less for her now.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Regardless of how I think of Caitlyn's personal actions (the accident, the media courting etc) *her speech was valid*.
> 
> And yes..lol. I respect everyone's right to equality and basic respect. Some people have to battle harder for it than straight, white people.




Someone else probably wrote it for her.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well when you get to be my age you find out that you're not easily intimidated.
> I understand people have differences of opinions and it's a highly charged subject but my biggest frustration was trying to make people understand that we need to take gender identity out of the equation and just focus on Bruce/Caitlyn as a person. I didn't care for him then, and I care less for her now.



Lol! But do you respect him????!!


----------



## ForeverYoung87

pittcat said:


> For those that say we don't know what went on/is going on behind closed doors and what Caitlyn may or may have not done for the victim of the car crash, the other party spoke out at the espys pretty negatively about her and the family of the dead woman is still suing, I think that makes it pretty obvious that Caitlyn did nothing to show remorse/condolences (I'm talking about something other than a lawyers statement) to either party. You may say that is good business to protect yourself, but those directly involved don't seem to see it that way.
> 
> I would hope that someone who seems to greatly value the importance of human existence would be more sensitive to the fact that she ended another persons life. That is what the other person had to say and if anyone should be able to understand protecting yourself/your interests it would appear she should based on her job in pr/talent management, but she is still calling for Caitlyn to  do the right thing and take responsibility for her actions.




Let's not forget her "family" aka step children that she hasn't had contact with for 10yrs (according to her friends) are shady af.


----------



## Cocolicious

Hobbsy said:


> Exactly. Just because someone is transgender they need to be respected?!!! For the last time, respect is earned.



Well you have not earned yours yet for me to respect your opioion ... Just kidding!

Respect isn't always earned in some cases. Depending on where you live and your culture it may be different for some....it's obviously an earned thing in your opioion but for others it's not always the case.

I was raised to respect my elders and then when I became an adult I noticed to many took advantage of that free respect and realized its a two way street.


----------



## Hobbsy

Cocolicious said:


> Well you have not earned yours yet for me to respect your opioion ... Just kidding!
> 
> Respect isn't always earned in some cases. Depending on where you live and your culture it may be different for some....it's obviously an earned thing in your opioion but for others it's not always the case.



Well. I can tell you that in the USA respect is earned, and not easily.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> Someone else probably wrote it for her.



Oh I think she had help with it. For sure. More than a little too. Probably a lot to keep the message clear I think. There was more at stake than Caitlyn.


----------



## Cocolicious

Hobbsy said:


> Well. I can tell you that in the USA respect is earned, and not easily.


I live in the USA...please don't speak for the whole nation. Lol!


----------



## Hobbsy

Cocolicious said:


> I live in the USA...please don't speak for the whole nation. Lol!



No one respects every human being blindly. No one!!!!!


----------



## Cocolicious

Hobbsy said:


> No one respects every human being blindly. No one!!!!!



Okay.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Hobbsy said:


> Lol! But do you respect him????!!



Nope, nor her.


----------



## guccimamma

i have no idea who is on what side.

i'm going to go read about hugh heffner and what he did to his bunnies.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Nope, nor her.



&#128518; He hasn't shown you any reason.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

guccimamma said:


> i have no idea who is on what side.



Lol. Easy to mix up. I sit on the fence of not particularly liking Caitlyn yet recognising the significance of her actions for others. Last night was good. A great speech. She needs to keep that focus on others like her, not so fortunate.

I think the media stuff is a given with this family...if only their powers could used for good instead of evil..lol


----------



## ForeverYoung87

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Lol. Easy to mix up. I sit on the fence of not particularly liking Caitlyn yet recognising the significance of her actions for others. Last night was good. A great speech. She needs to keep that focus on others like her, not so fortunate.
> 
> I think the media stuff is a given with this family...if only their powers could used for good instead of evil..lol



Since you're not harping about how much you hate her or just taking a dump on her with every single comment you leave youre obviously a "cheerleader" or a part of her fan club. Because you know God forbid someone tries to be rationale or have some empathy towards someone Kardashian related. The horror


----------



## blackkitty4378

This thread is giving me Planet of the Apes vibes.


----------



## Hobbsy

I don't think anyone is being held here against their will. It's not Hotel California!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Since you're not harping about how much you hate her or just taking a dump on her with every single comment you leave youre obviously a "cheerleader" or a part of her fan club. Because you know God forbid someone tries to be rationale or have some empathy towards someone Kardashian related.* The horror*


----------



## ByeKitty

labelwhore04 said:


> Some comments in here make me so angry that i'll just have to let myself out. Its not even worth my breath. Its so sad how intolerant people still are in 2015. Some people choose to stay ignorant so there's no point in trying.





FreeSpirit71 said:


> Lol. Easy to mix up. I sit on the fence of not particularly liking Caitlyn yet recognising the significance of her actions for others. Last night was good. A great speech. She needs to keep that focus on others like her, not so fortunate.
> 
> I think the media stuff is a given with this family...if only their powers could used for good instead of evil..lol





ForeverYoung87 said:


> Since you're not harping about how much you hate her or just taking a dump on her with every single comment you leave youre obviously a "cheerleader" or a part of her fan club. Because you know God forbid someone tries to be rationale or have some empathy towards someone Kardashian related. The horror



I know!!!! Oh my, the only reason for me to post here is to show that some take time to think, that not everyone is ok with the things that are being said. I have received many PMs over this, I know I'm not alone. The group think in this thread is insane and it hurts me.


----------



## PeggyOlson1

I watched her interview and the ESPYs and I really admire her and respect her and what she's trying to accomplish. I think it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking the worst about everybody especially if you disagree with them. Hey I'm no fan of the Kardashians. But I thought this issue humanized them and if this is the platform with which they can do good, then I'm all for it. She deserves to be acknowledged for her courage and to me, it's so sad that it took her 65 years to be herself. That's a really long time to be living a lie. I'm glad she has this chance to finally live her life.

Hopefully, all the attention she's getting educates all of us and empowers those who are dealing with the same issues.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner made her first public appearance as a woman at the ESPY Awards on Wednesday, where she delivered a powerful speech while accepting the Arthur Ashe Courage Award.

And the following day the transgender 65-year-old was out again, this time to attend the Del Mar Racetrack Opening Day.

Caitlyn, who is relishing the chance to finally be in the spotlight as her true self, was certainly dressed appropriately for a day at the races.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Mar-Racetrack-Opening-Day.html#ixzz3g7i3T1pH


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I have to say, the wrap dresses are a good choice for her.  Flattering.


----------



## ByeKitty

Very! I guess she's also happy she doesn't have size 46 feet...


----------



## Bentley1

She's so annoying. What an attention freak.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Bentley1 said:


> She's so annoying. What an attention freak.



LOL...I get it. But I also get that she's been _busting _to get out there and wear the dresses publicly she's been unable to do for a loooong time.

In my head, whenever I see Caitlyn in a new outfit, her soundtrack is Diana Ross' "I'm Coming Out" (And no, *not the title* but the lyrics,  "I_ want the world to know, got to let it show"_.  Girl has her strut on, bigtime 



PS: I love this song


----------



## Singra

It's funny I've met a couple transgender women and seen interviews with transgender "celebrities" and no matter how feminine they look they don't seem female to me (there are also plenty of biologically born females that don't seem female to me but I digress). Then there are other Transgender females (and "regular" females) who don't look female, from a physical, external perspective, but I know instantly and without a doubt that they're 100% female... know what I mean? 



@ the awards stuff...
Maybe I'm becoming too cynical but the theatre of today's awards shows does nothing for me wether it be the Oscars or the ESPYs. 

If anything this award shows how inadequate award shows are. I can't see why the award has to go to one person when all the people mentioned are deserving of it. Why must it be one person? can't they just announce a small handful of inspiring people and give them their 15 minutes in the sun... the more inspiring voices the better I say. I'm not anti Transgender, I know how important it is for Trans people to be represented etc. and that this is their moment and is coming at a crucial time etc.... Maybe I'm just too whinny but I don't get why in a multicultural, pluralistic society there has to be one "winner"... it's not a race or maybe it is.


----------



## shiny_things

labelwhore04 said:


> Some comments in here make me so angry that i'll just have to let myself out. Its not even worth my breath. Its so sad how intolerant people still are in 2015. Some people choose to stay ignorant so there's no point in trying.



Right, this thread is approaching Twilight Zone territory.


----------



## Bentley1

FreeSpirit71 said:


> LOL...I get it. But I also get that she's been _busting _to get out there and wear the dresses publicly she's been unable to do for a loooong time.
> 
> In my head, whenever I see Caitlyn in a new outfit, her soundtrack is Diana Ross' "I'm Coming Out" (And no, *not the title* but the lyrics,  "I_ want the world to know, got to let it show"_.  Girl has her strut on, bigtime
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I love this song





[emoji28][emoji106]love it, very befitting. 

She certainly busted out of the gates full speed ahead. Only part about it I like is the big "f u" I feel like she's giving PMK every time she's out struttin'.


----------



## dooneybaby

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner made her first public appearance as a woman at the ESPY Awards on Wednesday, where she delivered a powerful speech while accepting the Arthur Ashe Courage Award.
> 
> And the following day the transgender 65-year-old was out again, this time to attend the Del Mar Racetrack Opening Day.
> 
> Caitlyn, who is relishing the chance to finally be in the spotlight as her true self, was certainly dressed appropriately for a day at the races.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Mar-Racetrack-Opening-Day.html#ixzz3g7i3T1pH


I had to crack up at one of the promo's for "Being Caitlyn," when she's out shopping for dresses and holds up one particular dress she likes. I think it's Kim who says, "Mom has that dress." And Caitlyn kind of says, "Oh." She should have bought it just to see who looks better in it. Kris would have loved that! 
Can you say COMPETITION?


----------



## Cocolicious

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner made her first public appearance as a woman at the ESPY Awards on Wednesday, where she delivered a powerful speech while accepting the Arthur Ashe Courage Award.
> 
> And the following day the transgender 65-year-old was out again, this time to attend the Del Mar Racetrack Opening Day.
> 
> Caitlyn, who is relishing the chance to finally be in the spotlight as her true self, was certainly dressed appropriately for a day at the races.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Mar-Racetrack-Opening-Day.html#ixzz3g7i3T1pH



The wrap dresses do look good on Caitlyn but she really needs a stylist. Those shoes, that bag with that dress and hat...... Just NO!


----------



## TrinketTattle

FreeSpirit71 said:


> LOL...I get it. But I also get that she's been _busting _to get out there and wear the dresses publicly she's been unable to do for a loooong time.
> 
> In my head, whenever I see Caitlyn in a new outfit, her soundtrack is Diana Ross' "I'm Coming Out" (And no, *not the title* but the lyrics,  "I_ want the world to know, got to let it show"_.  Girl has her strut on, bigtime
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I love this song




Lol!!! Honestly, if I was in her situation.. I would go all.out.  nails/hair/short skirts/heels.. 
http://forum.purseblog.com//uk.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Jayne1

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Regardless of how I think of Caitlyn's personal actions (the accident, the media courting etc) her speech was valid.



That speech was perfection.  I bet she spent years thinking about it.



Coach Lover Too said:


> Someone else probably wrote it for her.


Even though she's probably been planning a speech like that for years (being a motivational speaker and all) I also wondered if she has help from a speech writer. I'm sure the draft was hers, but a speechwriter probably has better rhetoric and oratory skills. 

Anyway, brilliant speech and brilliant delivery.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> i have no idea who is on what side.
> 
> i'm going to go read about hugh heffner and what he did to his bunnies.



 I'm gonna go look at Gucci's. lol


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> She's so annoying. What an attention freak.



Someone's gonna send ByeKitty a pm over you if you keep talking like that.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Singra said:


> It's funny I've met a couple transgender women and seen interviews with transgender "celebrities" and no matter how feminine they look they don't seem female to me (there are also plenty of biologically born females that don't seem female to me but I digress). Then there are other Transgender females (and "regular" females) who don't look female, from a physical, external perspective, but I know instantly and without a doubt that they're 100% female... know what I mean?
> 
> 
> 
> @ the awards stuff...
> Maybe I'm becoming too cynical but the theatre of today's awards shows does nothing for me wether it be the Oscars or the ESPYs.
> 
> If anything this award shows how inadequate award shows are. I can't see why the award has to go to one person when all the people mentioned are deserving of it. Why must it be one person? can't they just announce a small handful of inspiring people and give them their 15 minutes in the sun... the more inspiring voices the better I say. I'm not anti Transgender, I know how important it is for Trans people to be represented etc. and that this is their moment and is coming at a crucial time etc.... Maybe I'm just too whinny but I don't get why in a multicultural, pluralistic society there has to be one "winner"... it's not a race or maybe it is.



Perfectly stated.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner made her first public appearance as a woman at the ESPY Awards on Wednesday, where she delivered a powerful speech while accepting the Arthur Ashe Courage Award.
> 
> And the following day the transgender 65-year-old was out again, this time to attend the Del Mar Racetrack Opening Day.
> 
> Caitlyn, who is relishing the chance to finally be in the spotlight as her true self, was certainly dressed appropriately for a day at the races.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Mar-Racetrack-Opening-Day.html#ixzz3g7i3T1pH




Where's that hot body guard!?!?


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Someone's gonna send ByeKitty a pm over you if you keep talking like that.



I don't know why that made me laugh, but it did!  (Thank you!)


----------



## Jayne1

After her brilliant speech, she goes back to what the Ks live for.  I think she is devaluing her mission, with crap like this.


----------



## Encore Hermes

She and the girls filmed opening day at the track, Del Mar. 

Bit of trivia: That racetrack is where PMK met Robert K.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

jayne1 said:


> i don't know why that made me laugh, but it did!  (thank you!)



:d


----------



## tweegy

mama13drama99 said:


> All the policing and ridicule here makes me totally numb to all of it that will continue moving forward...I'm sure the PM's amongst the few here who are so appalled that there are just some remarks they can't post publicly will continue...so be it!  I have shared my opinions respectfully and such but my mind yet continued to be blown by the "press" that spewed forth, which basically translated to, IMO, that if any comments weren't onboard with HE is beautiful, HE is courageous, the sun rises and sets in HIS behind, etc. then is was hateful and intolerant of ALL transgender people.  It's beyond annoying!!!!  If some think HE is the most beautiful person in the world, that HE walks on water, that HE this, or that HE that, it's wonderfully great!  It's rainbows and ice cream!!!  But HE is not a hero to others.  HE, regardless of being 65 years old, looks like the MAN he lived as for those 65 years, irrespective of what HE hid or felt like on the inside!!!  HE doesn't slay anything.  HE is always captured looking like a deer in headlights or a fish out of water (guess HIS breath is taken away too!)!!!  HE doesn't serve anything but more to baffle those of us who think and feel the things I've already described.  I don't think or see courage when I see HIM or hear HIS names!!!  I think and believe that HE is self-absorbed and self-centered!!!  And at this point, there may be many here who just are completely applaud by my thoughts and opinions, and that is fine...please skip my comments...you see the name before you see the post...govern yourself accordingly if you would like.  But my responses and retorts will be the same! #BeYou #CauseImDarnSureBeingMe




 Well, damn.


jimmyshoogirl said:


> Whew! This thread is like the gift that keeps giving.



LOL right!


----------



## tweegy

Encore Hermes said:


> She and the girls filmed opening day at the track, Del Mar.
> 
> Bit of trivia: That racetrack is where PMK met Robert K.



I see what you did there....


----------



## berrydiva

pittcat said:


> I don't know I read the other women who I quoted is suing for $25k... Doesn't seem like that big of a pay day, seems to be more of wanting to have some guilt applied to Caitlyn.  Why wouldn't she just settle out of court to avoid the bad press or is causing someone's death (I realize she won't be charged, so legally she did not cause it) considered all press is good press?  My point was this other woman was speaking out about the issue and still clearly upset, so those that say she may have made donations, this that and the other, it's my opinion that did not happen (I threw the suing in there as an after thought, you're right that would likely not change).
> 
> Was there even a ticket given? I just don't like the (seemingly) cavalier attitude... And all of the "deals" going on... It just doesn't sit right with me.  I don't know what responsibility she should take herself since she won't be charged, settling the lawsuits might be a good start, maybe that is what the Prius driver is referring to if she was injured/out of work because of the accident.


I think there was a ticket given. Is the $25k even against Jenner or is it against the insurance company?



guccimamma said:


> i have no idea who is on what side.
> 
> i'm going to go read about hugh heffner and what he did to his bunnies.


----------



## berrydiva

Contrary to the popular belief that respect is earned is actually the opposite in practice....respect is generally lost. Most people have basic respect in their daily interactions with people, because we have to live in a society; it's not until someone does something that is off-putting that we remove our basic levels of respect for said person. 

Carry on.


----------



## labelwhore04

People seem to be confusing respect for Caitlyn/Bruce as a person(personality,
Flaws, actions etc) with respect for Caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it


----------



## glamourous1098

labelwhore04 said:


> people seem to be confusing respect for caitlyn/bruce as a person(personality,
> flaws, actions etc) with respect for caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it


 +1


----------



## dooneybaby

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner made her first public appearance as a woman at the ESPY Awards on Wednesday, where she delivered a powerful speech while accepting the Arthur Ashe Courage Award.
> 
> And the following day the transgender 65-year-old was out again, this time to attend the Del Mar Racetrack Opening Day.
> 
> Caitlyn, who is relishing the chance to finally be in the spotlight as her true self, was certainly dressed appropriately for a day at the races.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Mar-Racetrack-Opening-Day.html#ixzz3g7i3T1pH


Not that I'm trying to copy Caitlyn with her DVF wrap dresses...
I've been thinking about getting one for a while now. So I HAPPENED to be in Nordstrom Rack today...and they HAPPENED to have DVF wrap dresses...and they HAPPENED to have some in my size...and they HAPPENED to be 60 percent off!!!
I bet Caitlyn didn't get 60 percent off!  
I just love the fabric!


----------



## Sassys

labelwhore04 said:


> People seem to be confusing respect for Caitlyn/Bruce as a person(personality,
> Flaws, actions etc) with respect for Caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it



This!!!!


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Someone's gonna send ByeKitty a pm over you if you keep talking like that.



Lol!!!


----------



## Hobbsy

Jayne1 said:


> After her brilliant speech, she goes back to what the Ks live for.  I think she is devaluing her mission, with crap like this.



He's almost Mrs Doubtfire!! &#128552;


----------



## chowlover2

labelwhore04 said:


> People seem to be confusing respect for Caitlyn/Bruce as a person(personality,
> 
> Flaws, actions etc) with respect for Caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it




Great post!


----------



## Hobbsy

berrydiva said:


> Contrary to the popular belief that respect is earned is actually the opposite in practice....respect is generally lost. Most people have basic respect in their daily interactions with people, because we have to live in a society; it's not until someone does something that is off-putting that we remove our basic levels of respect for said person.
> 
> Carry on.



I will agree to disagree with you.


----------



## Hobbsy

dooneybaby said:


> Not that I'm trying to copy Caitlyn with her DVF wrap dresses...
> I've been thinking about getting one for a while now. So I HAPPENED to be in Nordstrom Rack today...and they HAPPENED to have DVF wrap dresses...and they HAPPENED to have some in my size...and they HAPPENED to be 60 percent off!!!
> I bet Caitlyn didn't get 60 percent off!
> I just love the fabric!



Nice!


----------



## Cocolicious

dooneybaby said:


> Not that I'm trying to copy Caitlyn with her DVF wrap dresses...
> I've been thinking about getting one for a while now. So I HAPPENED to be in Nordstrom Rack today...and they HAPPENED to have DVF wrap dresses...and they HAPPENED to have some in my size...and they HAPPENED to be 60 percent off!!!
> I bet Caitlyn didn't get 60 percent off!
> I just love the fabric!



Nice find! You look great!


----------



## Encore Hermes

tweegy said:


> I see what you did there....


----------



## pittcat

Encore Hermes said:


> gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/George-Costanza-Prancing-Through-Park.gif




Thank you for this!!!


----------



## aleksandras

dooneybaby said:


> Not that I'm trying to copy Caitlyn with her DVF wrap dresses...
> I've been thinking about getting one for a while now. So I HAPPENED to be in Nordstrom Rack today...and they HAPPENED to have DVF wrap dresses...and they HAPPENED to have some in my size...and they HAPPENED to be 60 percent off!!!
> I bet Caitlyn didn't get 60 percent off!
> I just love the fabric!



Wow this is so nice!! Wrap dresses are so flattering


----------



## tweegy

too through said:


> And it seems that she was attempting to go through the transition quietly and without fanfare but somehow (PMK) paps followed him from his doctor's office after a procedure, paps followed him while running errands so they could zoom in on his nail polish and sports bra, etc.  Maybe she did the public reveal because it was being made public anyways and this way she could be the one telling the story rather than the rather ugly way the paps were playing this out.



Was it confirmed that Kris sent the paps?


----------



## Encore Hermes

Daily mail


----------



## littlerock

Awe, her little engraved necklace is sweet, I think.


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Someone's gonna send ByeKitty a pm over you if you keep talking like that.




Lol, it's probably already happened. [emoji57][emoji38]


----------



## Bentley1

Encore Hermes said:


> gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/George-Costanza-Prancing-Through-Park.gif




Omg [emoji23]lmaooo


----------



## MJDaisy

littlerock said:


> Awe, her little engraved necklace is sweet, I think.




Agree I like it


----------



## *spoiled*

I think she should take a break from the media.  I'm tired of seeing her


----------



## tweegy

Encore Hermes said:


> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/17/09/2A9BA99D00000578-3164832-Attention_to_detail_The_reality_star_left_her_brunette_locks_loo-a-74_1437120438808.jpg
> 
> Daily mail




Omg I JUST realized who she reminds me of now!

Anyone seen Meryl Streep in 'Death becomes her'??


----------



## lovemysavior

re·spect
r&#601;&#712;spekt/
noun
1.
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

Ok so this is what definition of the word respect is according to Google.  So it's not something that can be applied to just anyone no matter who or what you are or are doing.  If i don't deeply admire (respect) someone, then I don't see a problem with it.  Just because I don't respect someone's choices or achievements doesn't mean there is hatred towards that person. It just means that they don't make an impact in MY life.  At the end of the day, individually we all have to live with our choices, failures, gains, pros and cons so it really doesn't matter who respects me or my life.  I only have to answer to my Creator so that's what I strive to live for.  &#9996;


----------



## Jayne1

*spoiled* said:


> I think she should take a break from the media.  I'm tired of seeing her


Her TV show hasn't started yet.  

But, I agree.


----------



## Hobbsy

lovemysavior said:


> re·spect
> r&#601;&#712;spekt/
> noun
> 1.
> a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
> 
> Ok so this is what definition of the word respect is according to Google.  So it's not something that can be applied to just anyone no matter who or what you are or are doing.  If i don't deeply admire (respect) someone, then I don't see a problem with it.  Just because I don't respect someone's choices or achievements doesn't mean there is hatred towards that person. It just means that they don't make an impact in MY life.  At the end of the day, individually we all have to live with our choices, failures, gains, pros and cons so it really doesn't matter who respects me or my life.  I only have to answer to my Creator so that's what I strive to live for.  &#9996;



This!


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Daily mail



Thank you for that.  lol

I think this last nose job was smaller and more pert than necessary. I wonder if she'll discuss everything she had (wanted?) to do in order to look as feminine as she feels.  I want to know what doctor gave her that nose, because in my opinion, she didn't need it.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Some people  The fact that someone would actually do this because a transgender woman won an award is beyond ridiculous IMO but, 'murica! 

*Alabama man shoots TV with rifle because of Caitlyn Jenner (Video)*



BAKER HILL, Ala.  Alabamian Bobby Knight has had enough. Last night, in response to the Arthur Ashe Courage Award being given to Caitlyn Jenner, formerly known as Bruce Jenner the male Olympic decathlon winner for coming out as transgender, Knighta grandpa and electrician from Baker Hillblew a hole in his TV.

Now hes issuing a challenge to others who are fed up with the media, calling it the #TakeOutYourTV Challenge.

Im sick of the sickoe crap big media is pushing on [A]merica, Knight wrote on the caption of the video. So I decided that I had enoughso as of today no more perverted nasty garbage will enter my home.

Enjoy Knights protest in the video above.

Source: http://yellowhammernews.com/faithan...v-with-rifle-because-of-caitlyn-jenner-video/


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Methinks that dude has issues a wee bit bigger than Caitlyn. Ya know?


----------



## nycmom

lovemysavior said:


> re·spect
> r&#601;&#712;spekt/
> noun
> 1.
> a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
> 
> Ok so this is what definition of the word respect is according to Google.  So it's not something that can be applied to just anyone no matter who or what you are or are doing.  If i don't deeply admire (respect) someone, then I don't see a problem with it.  Just because I don't respect someone's choices or achievements doesn't mean there is hatred towards that person. It just means that they don't make an impact in MY life.  At the end of the day, individually we all have to live with our choices, failures, gains, pros and cons so it really doesn't matter who respects me or my life.  I only have to answer to my Creator so that's what I strive to live for.  &#9996;



Just fyi if you read further down the page you also would have seen...

_*due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.*
plural noun: respects
"respect for human rights"
synonyms:	due regard, politeness, courtesy, civility, deference
"he spoke to her with respect"
antonyms:	disrespect_


----------



## FreeSpirit71

nycmom said:


> Just fyi if you read further down the page you also would have seen...
> 
> _*due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.*
> plural noun: respects
> "respect for human rights"
> synonyms:	due regard, politeness, courtesy, civility, deference
> "he spoke to her with respect"
> antonyms:	disrespect_



Thanks @nycmom


----------



## dooneybaby

labelwhore04 said:


> People seem to be confusing respect for Caitlyn/Bruce as a person(personality,
> Flaws, actions etc) with respect for Caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it


I disagree. There are some people who don't agree with what Caitlyn is doing. They have the right to voice their opposition. That doesn't mean they have to make snide comments or make fun of her. You can have an mature, thought-provoking discussion about transgender issues without everyone having the same opinion.
For example, when the news first came out about Bruce Jenner's plans (and I say Bruce because this was before she became Caitlyn), Wendy Williams called Bruce selfish. Wendy say Bruce was wrapped up in his own issues, but was not focusing on being a father, especially to his youngest daughter, who was running around town with a much older rapper and doing who knows what else. We may not agree with Wendy, but she has the right to voice her opinion. Some people have criticized Jenner for having had three failed marriages, made several children and now he realizes at age 60-something that he wants to be a woman.
And some people don't believe that Jenner is a woman. Caitlyn hasn't had sex re-assignment surgery. And some people believe that just because you want to be a woman and you believe you feel like a woman, doesn't mean you ARE a woman.
We may not agree with the criticism, but people have the right to state it. Caitlyn is a very public figure, and she's going to face a lot of criticism, in what she says, how she says it and how she looks. And as she said, she can take it.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I am curious to if Caitlyn will change her voice? The hormones do not seem to have affected her voice yet and I am interested in knowing if she purposely does not want her voice to be different.


----------



## Bentley1

dooneybaby said:


> i disagree. There are some people who don't agree with what caitlyn is doing. They have the right to voice their opposition. That doesn't mean they have to make snide comments or make fun of her. You can have an mature, thought-provoking discussion about transgender issues without everyone having the same opinion.
> For example, when the news first came out about bruce jenner's plans (and i say bruce because this was before she became caitlyn), wendy williams called bruce selfish. Wendy say bruce was wrapped up in his own issues, but was not focusing on being a father, especially to his youngest daughter, who was running around town with a much older rapper and doing who knows what else. We may not agree with wendy, but she has the right to voice her opinion. Some people have criticized jenner for having had three failed marriages, made several children and now he realizes at age 60-something that he wants to be a woman.
> And some people don't believe that jenner is a woman. Caitlyn hasn't had sex re-assignment surgery. And some people believe that just because you want to be a woman and you believe you feel like a woman, doesn't mean you are a woman.
> We may not agree with the criticism, but people have the right to state it. Caitlyn is a very public figure, and she's going to face a lot of criticism, in what she says, how she says it and how she looks. And as she said, she can take it.




+1 

In the very speech that so many folks were impressed with she stated that she realizes there are people who question her motives, don't understand, critique her, etc. and that she "can take it." If she can take it, which basically translates to not giving a flip what anyone thinks, then strangers on a public forum should perhaps question why they are so emotionally invested in someone, and their journey, who could care less what we all think.


----------



## lovemysavior

nycmom said:


> Just fyi if you read further down the page you also would have seen...
> 
> _*due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.*
> plural noun: respects
> "respect for human rights"
> synonyms:due regard, politeness, courtesy, civility, deference
> "he spoke to her with respect"
> antonyms:disrespect_



No I didn't miss that.  What's in " " is exactly that, an example to the definition of the term respect.  It still comes down to it being how we feel about something. I don't think the definition I posted is wrong in what I'm stating of what respect means.


----------



## guccimamma

oops. wrong thread.


----------



## labelwhore04

People can say whatever they want, i could run down the street calling black people the N word, but it doesn't make it right and i can be expected to get called out on it. People have the RIGHT to say what they want but it doesn't make it less offensive. 

This would be such a different discussion if posters were making fun of gay people or saying racial slurs. But somehow Caitlyn and her transgender issues are made out to be a joke and people think they can say whatever they want.


----------



## shoegal

Kendall still says he doesn't she?


----------



## *spoiled*

labelwhore04 said:


> People can say whatever they want, i could run down the street calling black people the N word, but it doesn't make it right and i can be expected to get called out on it. People have the RIGHT to say what they want but it doesn't make it less offensive.
> 
> This would be such a different discussion if posters were making fun of gay people or saying racial slurs. But somehow Caitlyn and her transgender issues are made out to be a joke and people think they can say whatever they want.



You know, some of you are so quick to bring up black people and transgender issues as if it's anywhere close to the same thing.  IMO, some of you are closet racists who said "ooooh I have an opportunity to bring up the N word now"  Calling someone the N word is not about being offensive.  IT's about being a racist jerk.  The civil rights movement and the trans movement are nowhere near the same thing.  Just stop please!


----------



## labelwhore04

*spoiled* said:


> You know, some of you are so quick to bring up black people and transgender issues as if it's anywhere close to the same thing.  IMO, some of you are closet racists who said "ooooh I have an opportunity to bring up the N word now"  Calling someone the N word is not about being offensive.  IT's about being a racist jerk.  The civil rights movement and the trans movement are nowhere near the same thing.  Just stop please!



lol give me a break


----------



## nycmom

lovemysavior said:


> No I didn't miss that.  What's in " " is exactly that, an example to the definition of the term respect.  It still comes down to it being how we feel about something. I don't think the definition I posted is wrong in what I'm stating of what respect means.



Of course not, I just meant like many words there are actually multiple definitions, so the bold was simply in addition to (rather than instead of)...


----------



## berrydiva

labelwhore04 said:


> People seem to be confusing respect for Caitlyn/Bruce as a person(personality,
> Flaws, actions etc) with respect for Caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it


Well said!


----------



## nycmom

labelwhore04 said:


> People seem to be confusing respect for Caitlyn/Bruce as a person(personality,
> Flaws, actions etc) with respect for Caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it



Thank you



Bentley1 said:


> +1
> 
> In the very speech that so many folks were impressed with she stated that she realizes there are people who question her motives, don't understand, critique her, etc. and that she "can take it." If she can take it, which basically translates to not giving a flip what anyone thinks, then strangers on a public forum should perhaps question why they are so emotionally invested in someone, and their journey, who could care less what we all think.



For me the issue is as explained in the above post, and is actually the very point Jenner was making in the speech. In this thread comments such as "he's a man in a dress" and in fact the continued insistence on referring to Jenner as "he" is disrespectful and hurtful to the transgender community, some of whom are members of this forum, those are the people I care about.


----------



## berrydiva

Hobbsy said:


> I will agree to disagree with you.



We're actually not saying anything that far different from each other...you're just really in your feeling on this one. lol


----------



## berrydiva

dooneybaby said:


> I disagree. There are some people who don't agree with what Caitlyn is doing. They have the right to voice their opposition. That doesn't mean they have to make snide comments or make fun of her. You can have an mature, thought-provoking discussion about transgender issues without everyone having the same opinion.


I agree with this too.


----------



## berrydiva

labelwhore04 said:


> lol give me a break



I agree with *spoiled*. I can't stand when people try to compare the two. And, folks who don't walk in either one of those set of shoes should just respect that, move along and stop making that comparison.


----------



## dooneybaby

labelwhore04 said:


> People can say whatever they want, i could run down the street calling black people the N word, but it doesn't make it right and i can be expected to get called out on it. People have the RIGHT to say what they want but it doesn't make it less offensive.
> 
> This would be such a different discussion if posters were making fun of gay people or saying racial slurs. But somehow Caitlyn and her transgender issues are made out to be a joke and people think they can say whatever they want.


In all fairness, the Kardashian/Jenners' abuse of reality TV has turned them all into jokes. I don't think some people know when to take issues facing the K/Js seriously. The public has joked about Kim's 3 marriages, her sex tape, Scott's screwed up life, Rob's weight gain, and then we hear that Bruce wants to be a woman. A lot of people didn't believe it at first, and they just laughed.There was even talk initially that Kris thought of the idea to increase ratings.   
No, name calling is not appropriate, but Bruce, and now Caitlyn, put herself out there. So if someone says "Caitlyn still walks like she's a guy," or "Caitlyn still sounds like Bruce," which is what a lot of people said after the Espy's, then it is what it is. And you're welcome to disagree.


----------



## blackkitty4378

No one is saying they're the same, but people are treated with the same discrimination because of their skin color just as they are because of their sexuality or gender identity, to different degrees, in various parts of the world. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

People bring up racism because at one point it was acceptable to say racist things, and now it is not. It was even acceptable to segregate people due to their skin color, and now it is not (in the US). Hopefully one day discrimination will be just as unacceptable towards the LGBT community. We're all humans after all.


----------



## Bentley1

nycmom said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me the issue is as explained in the above post, and is actually the very point Jenner was making in the speech. In this thread comments such as "he's a man in a dress" and in fact the continued insistence on referring to Jenner as "he" is disrespectful and hurtful to the transgender community, some of whom are members of this forum, those are the people I care about.




But this thread is not about those people, it's about a celebrity whose journey some people question, which they have every right to do. Some people don't believe her, which is their right. 
There are pregnant women who are reading Kim's thread while people go in on her looking wide and bloated and this and that, should they be taking that to heart? These aren't support groups, they are gossip forums about celebs. 

I don't think anyone is having a hard time differentiating between gossiping about Caityln as an individual and trans issues, again, I personally haven't seen any trans hate in here. 

Again, consider the source. I'm not surprised there are skeptics.


----------



## labelwhore04

blackkitty4378 said:


> No one is saying they're the same, but people are treated with the same discrimination because of their skin color just as they are because of their sexuality or gender identity, to different degrees, in various parts of the world. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
> 
> People bring up racism because at one point it was acceptable to say racist things, and now it is not. It was even acceptable to segregate people due to their skin color, and now it is not (in the US). Hopefully one day discrimination will be just as unacceptable towards the LGBT community. We're all humans after all.



+1. They're different in many ways but the one thing that all underrepresented people face is discrimination and the fight to be treated equally, whether you're a visible minority, a gay person, transgender, etc.


----------



## Yoshi1296

*spoiled* said:


> You know, some of you are so quick to bring up black people and transgender issues as if it's anywhere close to the same thing.  IMO, some of you are closet racists who said "ooooh I have an opportunity to bring up the N word now"  Calling someone the N word is not about being offensive.  IT's about being a racist jerk.  The civil rights movement and the trans movement are nowhere near the same thing.  Just stop please!




The reason for the discrimination is different but the discriminatory acts are similar which is why these issues are still parallel to each other. Therefore the movements are related. Very different, but still has common points.


----------



## nycmom

Bentley1 said:


> I don't think anyone is having a hard time differentiating between gossiping about Caityln as an individual and trans issues, again, I personally haven't seen any trans hate in here.
> 
> Again, consider the source. I'm not surprised there are skeptics.



Totally understand about skeptics, and if that's truly what's happening here I understand, but there are several posters who continually refer to Jenner as "Bruce" and "he" and "man wearing a dress," and similar derogatory labels that the LGBTQ community has worked so hard to address and overcome.


----------



## bisousx

Bentley1 said:


> I don't think anyone is having a hard time differentiating between gossiping about Caityln as an individual and trans issues, again, I personally haven't seen any trans hate in here.



I disagree Bentley, I see a lot of thinly veiled hate in this thread. Caitlyn is an easy target for people to make bigoted statements then hide behind her questionable image, from the reality shows, to the accident, to the Kardashians, to the famewhoring. 

Everytime I read a "just because I'm not a fan of HIM, doesn't mean I'm anti- the entire trans community" ....   so when making statements that disrespect an entire community, you mean to say that you're only criticising Jenner for her behavior? gtf outta here..

I think it's a matter of time before transgender becomes another banned topic, like politics.


----------



## Freckles1

FreeSpirit71 said:


> LOL...I get it. But I also get that she's been _busting _to get out there and wear the dresses publicly she's been unable to do for a loooong time.
> 
> In my head, whenever I see Caitlyn in a new outfit, her soundtrack is Diana Ross' "I'm Coming Out" (And no, *not the title* but the lyrics,  "I_ want the world to know, got to let it show"_.  Girl has her strut on, bigtime
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I love this song





I like it!!!


----------



## guccimamma

dooneybaby said:


> In all fairness, the Kardashian/Jenners' abuse of reality TV has turned them all into jokes. I don't think some people know when to take issues facing the K/Js seriously. The public has joked about Kim's 3 marriages, her sex tape, Scott's screwed up life, Rob's weight gain, and then we hear that Bruce wants to be a woman. A lot of people didn't believe it at first, and they just laughed.There was even talk initially that Kris thought of the idea to increase ratings.
> No, name calling is not appropriate, but Bruce, and now Caitlyn, put herself out there. So if someone says "Caitlyn still walks like she's a guy," or "Caitlyn still sounds like Bruce," which is what a lot of people said after the Espy's, then it is what it is. And you're welcome to disagree.



yes to all of it.


----------



## berrydiva

blackkitty4378 said:


> No one is saying they're the same, but people are treated with the same discrimination because of their skin color just as they are because of their sexuality or gender identity, to different degrees, in various parts of the world. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
> 
> People bring up racism because at one point it was acceptable to say racist things, and now it is not. It was even acceptable to segregate people due to their skin color, and now it is not (in the US). Hopefully one day discrimination will be just as unacceptable towards the LGBT community. We're all humans after all.


I'm going to say it one more 'gain...they're not comparable! I wish folks who have never been in either shoe would stop and respect it the same way they are asking folks to respect Caitlyn. 

Carry on.


----------



## guccimamma

i don't like cait, i think she's shown herself to be a selfish fame whore. 

goody for her, she is free to dress like a woman...smoke, hit cars with her suv, accept awards she doesn't deserve.  it's the united states, she has those rights (well, except killing a woman, but that's up to the court).

i have the right not to like her, and it has nothing to do with her gender selection.

i don't like paris hilton, for pretty much the same reasons. imagine if paris hilton killed someone with her vehicle...how would that go? would they give her an award?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> oops. wrong thread.



I know how that feels, trust me.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*spoiled* said:


> I think she should take a break from the media.  I'm tired of seeing her




Me too. First thing in the morning I get my cup of coffee and log onto Yahoo to read the latest news and lo and behold, guess who's staring back at me??? 
Every.single.day.


----------



## nycmom

I am seriously not trying to be snarky but maybe it's your news source? I check the headlines every morning too and Jenner is never featured in anything I read...I think it's more of an "entertainment" story than news news?


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> Me too. First thing in the morning I get my cup of coffee and log onto Yahoo to read the latest news and lo and behold, guess who's staring back at me???
> Every.single.day.



Weird. Front page of Yahoo a few minutes ago - not a Jenner or a Kardashian to be seen. I'm a news junkie though. If there is a site I don't care for, I just don't keep going back.

And on the US news site, one story halfway down the page, no pics. Easy to scroll past if it doesn't interest you.


----------



## blackkitty4378

berrydiva said:


> I'm going to say it one more 'gain...they're not comparable! I wish folks who have never been in either shoe would stop and respect it the same way they are asking folks to respect Caitlyn.
> 
> Carry on.



So are you in BOTH "shoes" where you can make a judgment?

I look at it logically and I see hate crimes committed against both groups, so I'm going to speak out in favor of NOT discriminating against race or LGBT.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

nycmom said:


> I am seriously not trying to be snarky but maybe it's your news source? I check the headlines every morning too and Jenner is never featured in anything I read...I think it's more of an "entertainment" story than news news?



Could be, but the news I read on Yahoo includes celebs, politics, you name it and I can guarantee one of those K's or J's is gonna be there.

Just saw this and I didn't even go looking for it.  

*Caitlyn Jenner and Angelina Jolie Make BBC's Woman's Hour Power List*

*The stars are considered the most highly influential women in today's world.  


My profile pic is exactly how I'm feeling at this moment.
*

http://www.redbookmag.com/life/a38351/sia-and-caitlyn-jenner-make-womans-hour-list/


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Well since I was forced to go check my Yahoo home page, this is what came up for me. 
As you'll notice, there's a K on the very first page. Just like I suspected.


----------



## NYC Chicky

Lol


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well since I was forced to go check my Yahoo home page, this is what came up for me.
> As you'll notice, there's a K on the very first page. Just like I suspected.



Yahoo provides content in its news feed based on what you read:

Yahoo is watching you, whether you like it or not.

Yahoo said this week that the company will stop honoring "Do Not Track" requests made by a user's browser. It will now actively attempt to track your interactions with its site and its content. 

"Here at Yahoo, we work hard to provide our users with a highly personalized experience," the ironically named "Yahoo Privacy Team" wrote in a blog post. "We keep people connected to what matters most to them, across devices and around the world. We fundamentally believe the best web is a personalized one."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2150...licy-in-favor-of-personalized-experience.html

Since you are apparently clicking on these stories elsewhere, that is what Yahoo believes interests you. So if you don't want to read about Kardashians, Jenners or anything else, best thing to do is not click on those stories/sites.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mistikat said:


> Weird. Front page of Yahoo a few minutes ago - not a Jenner or a Kardashian to be seen. I'm a news junkie though. If there is a site I don't care for, I just don't keep going back.
> 
> And on the US news site, one story halfway down the page, no pics. Easy to scroll past if it doesn't interest you.




Ooops. Did you happen to see the top right hand corner of your pic??

*Trending Now......#8.....Kayne West.


Well, I'm be d*amned. Imagine that.*


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> Ooops. Did you happen to see the top right hand corner of your pic??
> 
> *Trending Now......#8.....Kayne West.
> 
> 
> Well, I'm be d*amned. Imagine that.*



Well, it was just announced he's playing the closing ceremony of the Pan Am Games ... so it's actually news about what he does for a living. Nothing to do with Caitlyn. And ... as he doesn't interest me, I didn't click.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mistikat said:


> Well, it was just announced he's playing the closing ceremony of the Pan Am Games ... so it's actually news about what he does for a living. Nothing to do with Caitlyn. And ... as he doesn't interest me, I didn't click.



Nice try. I never said I click on the stories either. I said every single morning there's at least a K or J on the pages. I think I just proved my point.


----------



## nycmom

I go to TPF for celebrity gossip and the link below for news, I promise you won't see a lot of Kardashian info here if you want to give it a try tomorrow with your morning coffee...

http://www.nytimes.com


----------



## Coach Lover Too

nycmom said:


> I go to TPF for celebrity gossip and the link below for news, I promise you won't see a lot of Kardashian info here if you want to give it a try tomorrow with your morning coffee...
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com



Thanks. Much appreciated. After the love I'm getting here tonight, I may need something stronger than coffee in the morning.


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> Nice try. I never said I click on the stories either. I said every single morning there's at least a K or J on the pages. I think I just proved my point.



If you reread what I said about why Yahoo puts certain stories on their home page, it's because they are tracking the cookies of the sites you visit, not necessarily the sites you click on their home page. It's their way of bringing you the stories you have indicated you are interested in, and why everyone's Yahoo page is different. The trending stories to the left is just that - stuff that is trending online.  Which differs depending on where you are. It's all location and Internet history based.


----------



## nycmom

Why wait until morning?


----------



## blackkitty4378

tennisplyr91 said:


> What?!?
> 
> I looked up her posts history a while back because I was legit intrigued by the amount of negativity she posts. I invite you to do he same and find the most current positive post about Caitlyn. Literally ZERO posts on bag, all negative stuff on gossip threads.



Well, you mentioned the Kardashians and not specifically Caitlyn, so I thought I'd mention that she's said positive things about the others. Compared to the hate and negativity I see on here, I'd say her comments in general are pretty mild.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tennisplyr91 said:


> What?!?
> 
> I looked up her posts history a while back because I was legit intrigued by the amount of negativity she posts. I invite you to do he same and find the most current positive post about Caitlyn. Literally ZERO posts on bag, all negative stuff on gossip threads.



That's a blatant lie, but if you want to know anything about me, just ask. I'm honest, unlike some of the subjects we've talked about here. I came over to the celebrity threads after seeing and hearing all the hoopla about Bruce. Yes, curiosity got the best of me, and no, I don't have anything good to say about *most* of them. Notice I said most, not all.

You weren't one of the ones hating on the Kardahsian toddlers a while back were you?


----------



## tennisplyr91

blackkitty4378 said:


> Well, you mentioned the Kardashians and not specifically Caitlyn, so I thought I'd mention that she's said positive things about the others. Compared to the hate and negativity I see on here, I'd say her comments in general are pretty mild.




When referring to the Kardashian I refer to the entire klan. Kylie, Kendall, Caitlyn, Scott, Kanye included.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

nycmom said:


> Why wait until morning?



Not that it's any of your business, but I don't drink coffee at night. It's sweet of you to be concerned though. 

I find the irony rich, given the fact that anything negative about Bruce turns into a *personal vendetta* towards other posters, but every other celebrity is fair game.


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> Not that it's any of your business, but I don't drink coffee at night. It's sweet of you to be concerned though.
> 
> I find the irony rich, given the fact that anything negative about Bruce turns into a *personal vendetta* towards other posters, but every other celebrity is fair game.



I really see nothing that I or nycmom said as a personal vendetta. You mentioned you dislike seeing stories about Caitlyn on your morning news feed. I think we are trying to say hey, that's ok - here is why you are seeing those stories, and here are some other options. If something bothers you this much, why keep reading about it?


----------



## Freckles1

mistikat said:


> I really see nothing that I or nycmom said as a personal vendetta. You mentioned you dislike seeing stories about Caitlyn on your morning news feed. I think we are trying to say hey, that's ok - here is why you are seeing those stories, and here are some other options. If something bothers you this much, why keep reading about it?




Absolutely ladies! No malicious intent that I see. [emoji173]&#65039;[emoji173]&#65039;[emoji173]&#65039;[emoji173]&#65039;


----------



## mistikat

Getting back to topic, interesting perspective on Caitlyn from the show Transparent:

We have to acknowledge that Caitlyn exists': Transgender TV series Transparent could see Jenner and his story feature in season two
By ZOE NAUMAN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 20:25 GMT, 17 July 2015 | UPDATED: 22:41 GMT, 17 July 2015

She has brought the issues faced by the transgender community into the spotlight. 
And now Caitlyn Jenner could be starring as her very true self in Tv dramedy Transparent.
The show, which has just received 11 Emmy nominations tells the story of Maura Pfefferman, a transgender father revealing to his family his real identity.

It documents the trials, tribulations and funny moments that ensue as they all come to terms with his revelation.

Speaking to Extra, writer and driector Jill Soloway, who has been nominated for her comedy writing talents in this year&#8217;s round of accolades, said she could see a place for Caitlyn in the next series.

&#8216;Transparent takes place in Los Angeles, Maura lives in Los Angeles, and Caitlyn lives in Los Angeles, there&#8217;s certainly a world in season two where we have to acknowledge the fact that Caitlyn exists.

The writer added that if they couldn&#8217;t get Caitlyn on set, they would be delighted to have her as a visitor: We also want Caitlyn to visit, just as an honored guest, and come to a table read.&#8217;

The 65-year-old was acknowledged at this year&#8217;s ESPY&#8217;s and honoured with the Arthur Ashe Bravery Award.

Jeffrey Tambor, who plays Maura Pfefferman, on the program and was nominated for best actor in a comedy in this years Emmys, said the timing was unbelievable for the show: &#8216;There was Caitlyn knocking it out in her beautiful white dress and saying all these beautiful things.&#8217;

Writer Jill Soloway agreed, and said she felt that event, couples with the recognition Transparent had been given, could be the start of a different attitude towards those who are transgender.

She told E! News: &#8216;What an amazing moment for the trans movement that there's this sea change.

&#8216;There's this undeniable sea change, you know, with this Supreme Court decision on marriage, it's like the next big thing is that trans people need rights in every state and all over the globe.&#8217;

Jeffrey added the shows cast and crew were astounded when they discovered they were up for 11 Emmy nominations.

Jeffrey said of Caitlyn's speech: &#8216;There was Caitlyn knocking it out in her beautiful white dress and saying all these beautiful things&#8217;

He told Extra: &#8216;I&#8217;m gonna be really really honest with you.
&#8216;I&#8217;m so happy for Amazon (which airs the show), I&#8217;m so happy for Jill, she started this story, from her gut, from her heart&#8230;There&#8217;s so many people who watch this&#8230;It&#8217;s about family, families will realize, every family has a secret, and every family laughs and cries at Thanksgiving and that is our show.&#8217;

Jil said the team were planning to have a dance party, which would feature them playing to Sia&#8217;s track Chandelier.

She revealed they were all amazed at the recognition the series got: &#8216;We jumped up and down for the Jeffrey nomination, then jumped up and down for the show nomination.

&#8216;As they kept reading every one of the nominations we were losing our minds.&#8217;


----------



## nycmom

Coach Lover Too said:


> Not that it's any of your business, but I don't drink coffee at night. It's sweet of you to be concerned though.
> 
> I find the irony rich, given the fact that anything negative about Bruce turns into a *personal vendetta* towards other posters, but every other celebrity is fair game.



Whoa wait a minute sorry I thought we were just joking around...you said something about drinking something stronger with your coffee in the morning so I was just kidding, like why not drink tonight...just trying to infuse a little friendly humor in the situation! I am sorry you got offended, I really thought it would make you laugh, I figured while we might not agree on everything we seem to have a similar taste in comediennes at least. Really sorry that upset you, was not my intention at all!


----------



## nycmom

mistikat said:


> I really see nothing that I or nycmom said as a personal vendetta. You mentioned you dislike seeing stories about Caitlyn on your morning news feed. I think we are trying to say hey, that's ok - here is why you are seeing those stories, and here are some other options. If something bothers you this much, why keep reading about it?



Thank you so much mistikat!


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> Thanks. Much appreciated. After the love I'm getting here tonight, I may need something stronger than coffee in the morning.




Unreal isn't it???  But where's the tolerance???


----------



## mistikat

mama13drama99 said:


> Unreal isn't it???  But where's the tolerance???



I think this whole thread has been about tolerance....


----------



## PeggyOlson1

*spoiled* said:


> You know, some of you are so quick to bring up black people and transgender issues as if it's anywhere close to the same thing.  IMO, some of you are closet racists who said "ooooh I have an opportunity to bring up the N word now"  Calling someone the N word is not about being offensive.  IT's about being a racist jerk.  The civil rights movement and the trans movement are nowhere near the same thing.  Just stop please!





Wrong. They are the same. Because end of the day, the issues racial minorities and the LGBT community face are one and the same: discrimination and bigotry. How people can cry foul about racism and deny the pain a transgender person like Caitlyn Jenner faces at the same time is baffling, to say the least.

And just because Caitlyn said she can take it doesn't mean people need to dish it out. There's such a thing as being civilized, even in an online forum. Because the reality is, like what was mentioned, offending Caitlyn for her transgender issues is the same as offending the entire LGBT community.


----------



## Jayne1

nycmom said:


> Whoa wait a minute sorry I thought we were just joking around...you said something about drinking something stronger with your coffee in the morning so I was just kidding, like why not drink tonight...just trying to infuse a little friendly humor in the situation! I am sorry you got offended, I really thought it would make you laugh, I figured while we might not agree on everything we seem to have a similar taste in comediennes at least. Really sorry that upset you, was not my intention at all!



I thought your comment was cute and that you were probably joking because of the smiley you added, but it's really hard to show humour through writing sometimes&#8230; for me, at least. Especially when some post mean, personal things, it's hard to know what's what.  But I knew you weren't being mean.

Any new pictures of Kate?  I kinda hated the hat she wore at the race track. I wonder if she will go back to a private life when filming her reality show is over.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mistikat said:


> I really see nothing that I or nycmom said as a personal vendetta. You mentioned you dislike seeing stories about Caitlyn on your morning news feed. I think we are trying to say hey, that's ok - here is why you are seeing those stories, and here are some other options. If something bothers you this much, why keep reading about it?



My apologies to both of you if I misunderstood your intent. Sometimes these threads get heated and it's hard to tell what's a true joke and what's an intended insult. I'm truly sorry.

(This doesn't mean I'm going to stop hating on some of the J's and K's though)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> I thought your comment was cute and that you were probably joking because of the smiley you added, but it's really hard to show humour through writing sometimes for me, at least. Especially when some post mean, personal things, it's hard to know what's what.  But I knew you weren't being mean.
> 
> Any new pictures of Kate?  I kinda hated the hat she wore at the race track. I wonder if she will go back to a private life when filming her reality show is over.



Things were handled though a pm and I appreciate her reaching out to me. It's all good (I hope).


----------



## creighbaby

labelwhore04 said:


> People seem to be confusing respect for Caitlyn/Bruce as a person(personality,
> Flaws, actions etc) with respect for Caitlyn's transgender journey. People can hate the person that she is, they can call her a bad father, famewhore, etc. But what you cant do is use your disdain for her to say offensive things about her transgender issues. Just because you dont think shes a good person it doesnt give you the right to deliberately call her "he" just to be spiteful and say all kinds of things that are offensive to transgenders. You can hate jenner all you want, but leave her transgender issues out of it



Absolutely agree. I have very little respect for CAITLIN, the media whore, but I have enormous respect for Caitlin's journey. I am tired of folks automatically assuming that if someone doesn't like her they are homophobic. 

I was really disappointed with the media response to Peter Berg's post. Too many people equated his anger over Caitlin getting the award with homophobia. His boobs and balls comment was a bit much (though it made me chuckle).



Jayne1 said:


> After her brilliant speech, she goes back to what the Ks live for.  I think she is devaluing her mission, with crap like this.



She needs a stylist. After so many years living with all those Ks she leaves the house like that! I would never let my mother out the house looking like that. She is carrying a briefcase and a church hat! And those shoes. Come on now. 

The cynic in me says she did it intentionally for her show in order to have a segment about the challenges of dressing and her asking Kim for fashion advice.




mistikat said:


> Getting back to topic, interesting perspective on Caitlyn from the show Transparent:
> 
> We have to acknowledge that Caitlyn exists': Transgender TV series Transparent could see Jenner and his story feature in season two
> By ZOE NAUMAN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
> PUBLISHED: 20:25 GMT, 17 July 2015 | UPDATED: 22:41 GMT, 17 July 2015
> 
> Snip
> [Writer and director Jill Soloway] added that if they couldnt get Caitlyn on set, they would be delighted to have her as a visitor: We also want Caitlyn to visit, just as an honored guest, and come to a table read.
> Snip



This seems like a big old publicity stunt.


----------



## shoegal

PeggyOlson1 said:


> Wrong. They are the same. Because end of the day, the issues racial minorities and the LGBT community face are one and the same: discrimination and bigotry. How people can cry foul about racism and deny the pain a transgender person like Caitlyn Jenner faces at the same time is baffling, to say the least.
> 
> And just because Caitlyn said she can take it doesn't mean people need to dish it out. There's such a thing as being civilized, even in an online forum. Because the reality is, like what was mentioned, offending Caitlyn for her transgender issues is the same as offending the entire LGBT community.




No not really. If you are born of a certain race, you don't have to do or say or profess to be anything and you are judged immediately. Based simply on looks and from birth. Sometimes not even given the opportunity to make an impression. Not so always for LGBTissues. Not the same


----------



## ForeverYoung87

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I am curious to if Caitlyn will change her voice? The hormones do not seem to have affected her voice yet and I am interested in knowing if she purposely does not want her voice to be different.



I was asking about her voice when the VF cover came out wondering how much of the vocal change is hormones and how much was it them playing with their voice. I googled and apparently hormones don't affect transgender women's voices the way testosterone affects transgender men especially after puberty. It can take up to a yr of vocal exercises and basically reprogramming  the brain for them to really alter their voice.  Surgery is also an option

commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/08/transgender-voices


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I was asking about her voice when the VF cover came out wondering how much of the vocal change is hormones and how much was it them playing with their voice. I googled and apparently hormones don't affect transgender women's voices the way testosterone affects transgender men especially after puberty. It can take up to a yr of vocal exercises and basically reprogramming  the brain for them to really alter their voice.  Surgery is also an option
> 
> 
> 
> commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/08/transgender-voices




Oh wow very good Info to know


----------



## Jayne1

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I was asking about her voice when the VF cover came out wondering how much of the vocal change is hormones and how much was it them playing with their voice. I googled and apparently hormones don't affect transgender women's voices the way testosterone affects transgender men especially after puberty. It can take up to a yr of vocal exercises and basically reprogramming  the brain for them to really alter their voice.  Surgery is also an option
> 
> commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/08/transgender-voices



It's not too bad though, Bruce never had a deep voice, so I think Cait sounds okay as a woman...


----------



## PeggyOlson1

shoegal said:


> No not really. If you are born of a certain race, you don't have to do or say or profess to be anything and you are judged immediately. Based simply on looks and from birth. Sometimes not even given the opportunity to make an impression. Not so always for LGBTissues. Not the same




The issues are the same. You're fighting discrimination and so are they. A sense of injustice is not reserved for one group alone and you can not claim to have the harder path because you have no way of measuring that. And if you feel a strong sense of wanting to end discrimination, you can't be self-involved about it and think only your issues matter.

As for not being judged by looks...Huh? That's precisely what the LGBT are getting murdered over- for looking and acting different. And isn't that what several posters here have been doing? Poking fun at Caitlyn's looks?


----------



## shoegal

The issues are not the same. Yes both discrimination is an issue for both but not the only issue. And who said anything about it being reserved for one group? I simply said they aren't the same. And they aren't. Not everyone is transgender of the community so that's a separate issue. Yes that is looks. But from birth? No they don't have that issue. Treated a different way in preschool etc? No. I'm far from self involved on the issue but can see where they are different. I'm also not self righteous


----------



## ByeKitty

shoegal said:


> The issues are not the same. Yes both discrimination is an issue for both but not the only issue. And who said anything about it being reserved for one group? I simply said they aren't the same. And they aren't. Not everyone is transgender of the community so that's a separate issue. Yes that is looks. But from birth? No they don't have that issue. Treated a different way in preschool etc? No. I'm far from self involved on the issue but can see where they are different. I'm also not self righteous



Ok my 2 cents are this: when people compare the struggles of different minority groups, it's not about the intricacies of the discrimination (I.e.: the history of the discrimination, at what age kids start to see that you are/look different, whether you run the risk of being disowned by your parents...). There are differences, nobody said there weren't. But what we do know is that both groups are subject to similar acts of hate, stemming from bigotry. We can't rate which is worse, and we shouldn't aspire to.


----------



## shoegal

Who did? I simply said they were different. And the intricacies wouldn't matter to those who don't experience I suspect.


----------



## ByeKitty

shoegal said:


> Who did? I simply said they were different. And the intricacies wouldn't matter to those who don't experience I suspect.



I never said the intricacies don't matter, I said that when you leave out the details and go to a basal level, it's essentially the same phenomenon. Also, honest question: how can you know that the acts of hate LGBT people have to deal with are not comparable if you only have experience with being discriminated against for something else?


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> Her TV show hasn't started yet.
> 
> 
> 
> But, I agree.




+2! Here's the real hero if the Espys!


----------



## shoegal

Says who?


----------



## ByeKitty

shoegal said:


> Says who?



You want to know about me and my experiences with bigotry?


----------



## nycmom

Freckles1 said:


> Absolutely ladies! No malicious intent that I see. [emoji173]&#65039;[emoji173]&#65039;[emoji173]&#65039;[emoji173]&#65039;





Jayne1 said:


> I thought your comment was cute and that you were probably joking because of the smiley you added, but it's really hard to show humour through writing sometimes for me, at least. Especially when some post mean, personal things, it's hard to know what's what.  But I knew you weren't being mean.



Thank you so much Freckles and Jayne!



Coach Lover Too said:


> Things were handled though a pm and I appreciate her reaching out to me. It's all good (I hope).



Yes all good! Humor and online communication is definitely a challenging combo, and clearly I failed miserably. Thanks again for understanding.


----------



## Hobbsy

Ok, I said I didn't feel as though Caitlyn Jenner deserved to win the Arthur Ash Espy. I read something tonight posted on Facebook by a friend that he saw, and I'm going to take my words back. The second paragraph of this hit home with me.


----------



## bisousx

Hobbsy said:


> Ok, I said I didn't feel as though Caitlyn Jenner deserved to win the Arthur Ash Espy. I read something tonight posted on Facebook by a friend that he saw, and I'm going to take my words back. The second paragraph of this hit home with me.



I saw this too, it made me smile.

Kind of off-topic but I'm baffled that some of my military friends on Facebook are still posting about the ESPY awards and have said nothing about the atrocity in Tennessee.


----------



## Hobbsy

bisousx said:


> I saw this too, it made me smile.
> 
> Kind of off-topic but I'm baffled that some of my military friends on Facebook are still posting about the ESPY awards and have said nothing about the atrocity in Tennessee.



 We live in such a violent world, I am still trying to wrap my head around those killings. So sad. Possibly your military friends don't have the words either?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Hobbsy said:


> Ok, I said I didn't feel as though Caitlyn Jenner deserved to win the Arthur Ash Espy. I read something tonight posted on Facebook by a friend that he saw, and I'm going to take my words back. The second paragraph of this hit home with me.



Great post Hobbsy. And I think quite a large % of posters may not like Caitlyn, but can also see that some positives can come of her speaking out. Even if, as your post says, one life is saved , then some real good can come from this - even from a Jenner/Kardashian. 

The words and tone people use, reflect only on themselves


----------



## Coach Lover Too

nycmom said:


> Thank you so much Freckles and Jayne!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes all good! Humor and online communication is definitely a challenging combo, and clearly I failed miserably. Thanks again for understanding.



No worries.


----------



## *spoiled*

PeggyOlson1 said:


> Wrong. They are the same. Because end of the day, the issues racial minorities and the LGBT community face are one and the same: discrimination and bigotry. How people can cry foul about racism and deny the pain a transgender person like Caitlyn Jenner faces at the same time is baffling, to say the least.
> 
> And just because Caitlyn said she can take it doesn't mean people need to dish it out. There's such a thing as being civilized, even in an online forum. Because the reality is, like what was mentioned, offending Caitlyn for her transgender issues is the same as offending the entire LGBT community.



Sorry but they aren't the same.  caitlyn lived her life as a man for 60 years because of the backlash he thought he would face. He had that choice.  Blacks don't have a choice. I can't wake up tomorrow and "pass". unbelievable


----------



## PeggyOlson1

^ you are essentially fighting the same problems, that's the point. that is why essentially these issues are the same. but hey, let's agree to disagree. if you would rather focus on how much harder your problems are and in the process, deprive other minorities the empathy you're seeking, that's on you. i just hope you find peace the same way the lgbt community is working to find theirs.


----------



## Cocolicious

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I am curious to if Caitlyn will change her voice? The hormones do not seem to have affected her voice yet and I am interested in knowing if she purposely does not want her voice to be different.


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## SpeedyJC

What is this debate over what discrimination is worse? While discrimination against a race and discrimination against the LGBT may be two seperate issues they are fighting the same evil. Gays, Lesbians, transgenders don't have a choice either. There are plenty of young people who get made fun of/discriminated against because they exhibit signs of being gay at a young age not all are able to hide it until they are 60 years old.  We are lucky to live in a country where you can't be put to death for being gay or transgendered others are not so lucky. Also trust me I have dealt with discrimination as a child my family spent time down south and i remember the looks my family got when we were out because my mother is white and my father is dark skinned. Anyways that's just my opinion.


----------



## blackkitty4378

PeggyOlson1 said:


> ^ you are essentially fighting the same problems, that's the point. that is why essentially these issues are the same. but hey, let's agree to disagree. if you would rather focus on how much harder your problems are and in the process, deprive other minorities the empathy you're seeking, that's on you. i just hope you find peace the same way the lgbt community is working to find theirs.



+1. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this concept. People can only think about themselves instead of seeing the bigger picture I guess. Just like the concept of a being a "hero", I guess pain and discrimination is another **** measuring contest instead of just not being tolerated or acceptable at all IMO.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

SpeedyJC said:


> What is this debate over what discrimination is worse? While discrimination against a race and discrimination against the LGBT may be two seperate issues they are fighting the same evil. Gays, Lesbians, transgenders don't have a choice either. There are plenty of young people who get made fun of/discriminated against because they exhibit signs of being gay at a young age not all are able to hide it until they are 60 years old.  We are lucky to live in a country where you can't be put to death for being gay or transgendered others are not so lucky. Also trust me I have dealt with discrimination as a child my family spent time down south and i remember the looks my family got when we were out because my mother is white and my father is dark skinned. Anyways that's just my opinion.


Well said


----------



## dooneybaby

nycmom said:


> I am seriously not trying to be snarky but maybe it's your news source? I check the headlines every morning too and Jenner is never featured in anything I read...I think it's more of an "entertainment" story than news news?


I'm in the news business. Jenner at the Espy awards was a news story, but other than that, we don't follow her around to see where she goes and what she's wearing.
In all honesty, Jenner hasn't been an entertainment story since her Caitlyn announcement.


----------



## dooneybaby

SpeedyJC said:


> What is this debate over what discrimination is worse? While discrimination against a race and discrimination against the LGBT may be two seperate issues they are fighting the same evil. Gays, Lesbians, transgenders don't have a choice either. There are plenty of young people who get made fun of/discriminated against because they exhibit signs of being gay at a young age not all are able to hide it until they are 60 years old.  We are lucky to live in a country where you can't be put to death for being gay or transgendered others are not so lucky. Also trust me I have dealt with discrimination as a child my family spent time down south and i remember the looks my family got when we were out because my mother is white and my father is dark skinned. Anyways that's just my opinion.


I faced major discrimination too. Growing up as a black kid in the 70s in New England, I was called the N word just about every day for years. Rocks were thrown at my mom's car as she drove us to and from school.
Let me clarify...
Caitlyn s a public figure and criticism of her is just going to happen. Slurs ARE NOT acceptable in any forum, whether they refer to race, gender, sexual orientation, size, etc. You can express an opposing view without using slurs. As a matter of fact, the use of a slur of any kind should be grounds to be removed from this forum, permanently.
We're all educated adults and we know what a slur is. 
We know better, so let's do better.


----------



## uhpharm01

hobbsy said:


> he's almost mrs doubtfire!! &#128552;



&#128563;


----------



## Grace123

Looks like Caitlyn got herself a new stylist! 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...wn-working-Angelina-Jolie-s-List-stylist.html
Taking tips from Angelina? Caitlyn Jenner sports remarkably similar gown to Jolie after working with actress' A-List stylist

By COLETTE FAHY FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 07:20 EST, 17 July 2015 | UPDATED: 16:46 EST, 17 July 2015


She enlisted Angelina Jolie's stylist Jen Rade to get her red carpet ready for the ESPYs on Wednesday night so it's not surprising that Caitlyn Jenner's look was similar to the A-List beauty. 
The 65-year-old Olympian - who was known as Bruce Jenner before her gender transition this year - was honoured with the 2015 Arthur Ashe Courage Award and wowed in a flowing custom white Atelier Versace gown, remarkably like one worn by Angelina in 2010. 
The material on the two dresses is different with Angelina choosing a woolen garment slit to mid-thigh for her appearance at the New York premiere of The Tourist while Caitlyn's gown was a lighter material.
Scroll down for video 
Stealing her style! Caitlyn Jenner took a leaf out of Angelina Jolie's style book when she attended the ESPY Awards in a similar Atelier Versace gown to the one Jolie wore in 2012


But both swept the floor and featured long sleeves, a flattering ruched bodice and plunging neckline.


----------



## dooneybaby

PeggyOlson1 said:


> The issues are the same. You're fighting discrimination and so are they. A sense of injustice is not reserved for one group alone and you can not claim to have the harder path because you have no way of measuring that. And if you feel a strong sense of wanting to end discrimination, you can't be self-involved about it and think only your issues matter.
> 
> As for not being judged by looks...Huh? That's precisely what the LGBT are getting murdered over- for looking and acting different. And isn't that what several posters here have been doing? Poking fun at Caitlyn's looks?


No, they are not the same, and as a black woman I take slight offense to your stating they are. Unless you've walked in my shoes, how would you know?
Bruce Jenner lived his life in the closet for 65 years. Now I'm not saying that's it's the most healthy thing for a person to do, but by hiding his true self, he was able to live, at least superficially, the American dream. (You notice I said superficially.)
As a black woman THERE AIN'T NO HIDING.
As I stated in a previous post, as a black kid growing up in New England in the 70s, I was called the N word just about every day for years. I would be in a department store and kids would point and laugh and say the N word. My mom had rocks thrown at her car and kids would shout the N word.
I couldn't live in the closet to avoid the harassment. I couldn't hide my black skin. I was stuck with it so I had to live with it. 
Let's say I could have lived my life in the closet, making people believe I were white so that life would be easier, then to come out at age 65 to say, "Hey, I'm really black!" I don't have that luxury.


----------



## Cocolicious

We can never talk about anything without race somehow being brought into the conversation.


----------



## creighbaby

Hobbsy said:


> Ok, I said I didn't feel as though Caitlyn Jenner deserved to win the Arthur Ash Espy. I read something tonight posted on Facebook by a friend that he saw, and I'm going to take my words back. The second paragraph of this hit home with me.



Note: I was not able to include the image that hobbsy had included in her post. It is the text in that image that I'm responding to.

I am not on the wrong side of history. The person in your post, like too many people, equate the objection of her getting the award with ignorance, homophobia and hate.  No, no, and no. 

Just because I don't agree with you on this issue doesn't put me on the wrong side of history. 

There were people who truly deserved the award. She didn't. I applaud Caitlyn's journey, but I truly believe she didn't deserve it and it was done for ratings. I am glad she is able to be who she is meant to be and is happy.


----------



## Cocolicious

No matter how much everyone complains it really does not matter Caitlyn WON the award and she's keeping it. Everyone can stop losing sleep at night and carry on with their lives.


----------



## Cocolicious

dooneybaby said:


> No, they are not the same, and as a black woman I take slight offense to your stating they are. Unless you've walked in my shoes, how would you know?
> Bruce Jenner lived his life in the closet for 65 years. Now I'm not saying that's it's the most healthy thing for a person to do, but by hiding his true self, he was able to live, at least superficially, the American dream. (You notice I said superficially.)
> As a black woman THERE AIN'T NO HIDING.
> As I stated in a previous post, as a black kid growing up in New England in the 70s, I was called the N word just about every day for years. I would be in a department store and kids would point and laugh and say the N word. My mom had rocks thrown at her car and kids would shout the N word.
> I couldn't live in the closet to avoid the harassment. I couldn't hide my black skin. I was stuck with it so I had to live with it.
> Let's say I could have lived my life in the closet, making people believe I were white so that life would be easier, then to come out at age 65 to say, "Hey, I'm really black!" I don't have that luxury.



Unless you walked in a white persons shoes then how would you know life would be easier?



Guess what kids are cruel...no matter what race you are...see all those white kids killing themselves everyday making national news...yeah, bullying people is not just for one race, sex, age or religion. GUESS WHAT ?? This world is not fair to anyone!


----------



## bisousx

I think people are getting upset because it sounds like their experiences with discrimination are being compared with others' experiences. And if you look at it that way, you can't compare two people's experiences, nor can you lump everyone with the same race or orientation into one group either. 

But that's not what some of us are trying to compare here.

As a minority, I haven't experienced extreme racism other than being called slurs once in awhile, visiting certain parts of the country. On the other hand, when I was in h.s. I watched my friend get pushed down the stairs by a group of boys for no other reason than what she looked like. I can't speak for her experience, nor can she speak for mine. But I can tell you that the _reason behind why we were treated that way_ comes from the same damn place.


----------



## Jayne1

All I know is, Cait finds it hard to find shoes in her size.  I've been noticing the sandals and the toe overhang and this isn't the first time.

I always notice toe overhang on rich celebs, usually on the red carpet, because I would think it would be easier for them to find proper fitting shoes.

I know it's hard to find extra large shoes, but still, I'm surprised, with her money and resources, she can't find them. Or am I naive, like, why bother?  They only wear them once, for the camera.


----------



## pittcat

Jayne1 said:


> All I know is, Cait finds it hard to find shoes in her size.  I've been noticing the sandals and the toe overhang and this isn't the first time.
> 
> I always notice toe overhang on rich celebs, usually on the red carpet, because I would think it would be easier for them to find proper fitting shoes.
> 
> I know it's hard to find extra large shoes, but still, I'm surprised, with her money and resources, she can't find them. Or am I naive, like, why bother?  They only wear them once, for the camera.




Is her whole big toe out over the end of the shoe?


----------



## Lounorada

Reading through this thread would make a person in bad need of a vacation at the end...


----------



## Hobbsy

Jayne1 said:


> All I know is, Cait finds it hard to find shoes in her size.  I've been noticing the sandals and the toe overhang and this isn't the first time.
> 
> I always notice toe overhang on rich celebs, usually on the red carpet, because I would think it would be easier for them to find proper fitting shoes.
> 
> I know it's hard to find extra large shoes, but still, I'm surprised, with her money and resources, she can't find them. Or am I naive, like, why bother?  They only wear them once, for the camera.



I hate that, and it has to ruin a pedicure? !!


----------



## Sasha2012

She's got a whole new wardrobe to explore.

And Caitlyn Jenner really turned up the heat when she stepped out in Los Angeles on Friday night.

The 65-year-old slipped into a pair of skin-tight leather trousers as she enjoyed an evening out with friends at Nobu Malibu.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...her-trousers-dines-friends.html#ixzz3gGgkpSN7


----------



## ByeKitty

dooneybaby said:


> No, they are not the same, and as a black woman I take slight offense to your stating they are. Unless you've walked in my shoes, how would you know?
> Bruce Jenner lived his life in the closet for 65 years. Now I'm not saying that's it's the most healthy thing for a person to do, but by hiding his true self, he was able to live, at least superficially, the American dream. (You notice I said superficially.)
> As a black woman THERE AIN'T NO HIDING.
> As I stated in a previous post, as a black kid growing up in New England in the 70s, I was called the N word just about every day for years. I would be in a department store and kids would point and laugh and say the N word. My mom had rocks thrown at her car and kids would shout the N word.
> I couldn't live in the closet to avoid the harassment. I couldn't hide my black skin. I was stuck with it so I had to live with it.
> Let's say I could have lived my life in the closet, making people believe I were white so that life would be easier, then to come out at age 65 to say, "Hey, I'm really black!" I don't have that luxury.



Isn't Oprah's life quite reminiscent of the "American dream"? She's black, she's even a black woman! Yes I know racism is alive and well, and it's not pretty. I dated a black guy and the looks and comments we got...ugh, I get it. But honestly, with many gay people you can tell they're gay (this doesn't go for everyone but even from a young age you can sometimes tell there's something "different" about them), and many people are not accepting of that either. Two of my best friends are gay and they have both been harassed in the streets. Just as ugly. You can't just "take off the gayness". I would like to add that one of my friends' family is religious and completely cut him off. If you're black, usually your entire family goes through the same thing, it may even be a less lonely experience. And I don't say that to trivialize what life is like for a black person in the US, only to show you that differences between the groups obviously exist, but there is no basis for value judgments of who may have it worse.
It's not a contest. All types of bigotry are horrible and I'm sad they exist. On the other hand, I'm not part of a minority group and it's not like I have always lived a charmed life. For years, I was terrorized in school, by bullies, for reasons I still don't understand.


----------



## AEGIS

michie said:


> It's a damned shame that some "agendas" like this are being pushed while other people are still being gunned down in the streets for who they are, too. Very tough to listen to her speech with my eyes closed or even read many of these posts and know that as much as people are talking about intolerance toward transgender people, the word "transgender" could be replaced and seem to fall on deaf ears, as it has for decades. Shameful. Some people know all too well how unfair the world is, as they are seemingly *born* with a bounty placed on their heads. So, when you wonder why some people are more "angry" about this, know that it's hurtful YET AGAIN that the media, the world and everyone in it is once more letting them know that you are not even as important to yet another person you're sharing space with. Very hard indeed for one who has never been embraced to embrace. Food for thought.





now THIS is a word.


----------



## AEGIS

Coach Lover Too said:


> Someone's gonna send ByeKitty a pm over you if you keep talking like that.



lmao.  I snorted.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Someone's gonna send ByeKitty a pm over you if you keep talking like that.



LMAO, that sounds passive aggressive... No thread yields as many PMs as this one, but they're not _all_ about your behavior


----------



## AEGIS

shoegal said:


> No not really. If you are born of a certain race, you don't have to do or say or profess to be anything and you are judged immediately. Based simply on looks and from birth. Sometimes not even given the opportunity to make an impression. Not so always for LGBTissues. Not the same




It's not the same and people need to stop making fetch happen.  Stop equating every damn form of discrimination w/being black.  We're tired of it. Find another model. #canwelive?!


----------



## Cocolicious

Jayne1 said:


> All I know is, Cait finds it hard to find shoes in her size.  I've been noticing the sandals and the toe overhang and this isn't the first time.
> 
> I always notice toe overhang on rich celebs, usually on the red carpet, because I would think it would be easier for them to find proper fitting shoes.
> 
> I know it's hard to find extra large shoes, but still, I'm surprised, with her money and resources, she can't find them. Or am I naive, like, why bother?  They only wear them once, for the camera.



She needs to talk to Paris because that girls foot is a size 11! She has to have them special order.


----------



## Jayne1

She has the slim hips for lots of her fashion choices!

However, dinner at Nobu Malibu.  I think she has to stop gazing out from her Malibu terrace and dining at Nobu Malibu so the people she wants to inspire can relate a teeny bit.


----------



## shoegal

AEGIS said:


> It's not the same and people need to stop making fetch happen.  Stop equating every damn form of discrimination w/being black.  We're tired of it. Find another model. #canwelive?!




Willful ignorance is real. It gives people the opportunity to minimize reality. In our rush to "tolerate" we forget to celebrate real differences. No one is saying it's an excuse for slurs. But neither do you have to assassinate a poster because they say he - Kendall and Kylie still do. And so does their grand mom. This is a world who likes to tell black people to just get over it - well no. When what little you have left of your culture is appropriated and you are dismissed no. Then you say we will now appropriate your experience too? No. You don't have to like it or agree but it doesn't mean it's not true. And when you are killed or followed or stopped for being white, then talk to me about how do you know a white persons experience is better in life.


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...hughley-espys-kris-jenner-20150717-story.html

*D.L. Hughley on Caitlyn Jenner: Looks like Mrs. Doubtfire, 'put on a dress' to win courage award*

D.L. Hughley thinks Caitlyn Jenner "looks like every P.E. teacher I ever had," and says she wouldn't have been his choice to receive the ESPYs' Arthur Ashe Courage Award simply because she "put on a dress."

But he doesn't consider that bashing.

"I think that it's named after Arthur Ashe," the comic said of the award, speaking to a TMZ videographer Thursday on a New York Street. "Arthur Ashe from Richmond, Virginia, a symbol of courage. He fought [a] segregated South, a very segregated profession, he fought AIDS with dignity and honor, and Caitlyn Jenner put on a dress. I don't think it's the same thing."

The 1976 Olympic gold medalist, of course, made her post-transition debut on national TV during the ESPY Awards on Wednesday night, accepting the Ashe trophy with a speech about gender transition being "harder ... than anything I could have imagined, and that's the case for so many others besides me."

In New York on Thursday -- around when Jenner was thanking her ESPYs glam squad via Instagram -- Hughley continued to riff on a comparison he'd drawn Monday on Facebook between the 65-year-old Jenner and tennis champion Serena Williams.

"In the last month, we had the media telling us that Caitlyn Jenner was beautiful and that Serena Williams looks like a man," he said. "That was a little weird to me. The man looks like a woman, but the woman looks like a man. That's ridiculous. Serena Williams is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen on a tennis court, and Bruce Jenner looks like every P.E. teacher I ever had."

(Yeah, the "media" take on the Wimbledon champ was about more than that one dude on Twitter who got "Harry Potter" author J.K. Rowling riled up over his criticism of Williams' physique. There was also the blowback to a New York Times article about female tennis players and body image.)

On Facebook, Hughley had said to a commenter Monday, "explain to me how pointing out obvious hypocrisy is bashing."

Meanwhile, after the comic called Caitlyn Jenner beautiful "in a, like, 'Mrs. Doubtfire' way," Kris Jenner was being kinder to her ex.


Caitlyn's speech "was amazing and very brave," the reality star told Us Weekly at an event Thursday night in Los Angeles.  "I think she looked beautiful."


----------



## ByeKitty

AEGIS said:


> It's not the same and people need to stop making fetch happen.  Stop equating every damn form of discrimination w/being black.  We're tired of it. Find another model. #canwelive?!



Well these forums are predominantly American and this is the most obvious example of discrimination there, I'm sure that's why it keeps coming up. I never start bringing it up in here because you just know beforehand it derails the discussion because it's a sensitive topic. We can talk about Gastarbeiters and their offspring too if you like, or Uyghurs in China, but I'm not sure everyone is as familiar with their stories. I would like you to know it's really nothing personal, and for me it certainly has _nothing_ to do with not respecting your struggle. We've seen very well over the past year that this is a very current topic, nothing to trivialize. I think people come back to the topic because it is the best way to emphasize the severity of xenophobia.


----------



## Cocolicious

shoegal said:


> Willful ignorance is real. It gives people the opportunity to minimize reality. In our rush to "tolerate" we forget to celebrate real differences. No one is saying it's an excuse for slurs. But neither do you have to assassinate a poster because they say he - Kendall and Kylie still do. And so does their grand mom. This is a world who likes to tell black people to just get over it - well no. When what little you have left of your culture is appropriated and you are dismissed no. Then you say we will now appropriate your experience too? No. You don't have to like it or agree but it doesn't mean it's not true. And when you are killed or followed or stopped for being white, then talk to me about how do you know a white persons experience is better in life.



When have you been killed? I'm always followed in stores ( I'm not white) I'm not telling anyone to get over it but I will tell you don't speak for anyone but yourself. Someone else's expierence is not yours even if you have the same race, gender, religion in common.


----------



## AEGIS

ByeKitty said:


> Well these forums are predominantly American and this is the most obvious example of discrimination there, I'm sure that's why it keeps coming up. I never start bringing it up in here because you just know beforehand it derails the discussion because it's a sensitive topic. We can talk about Gastarbeiters and their offspring too if you like, or Uyghurs in China, but I'm not sure everyone is as familiar with their stories. I would like you to know it's really nothing personal, and for me it certainly has _nothing_ to do with not respecting your struggle. We've seen very well over the past year that this is a very current topic, nothing to trivialize. I think people come back to the topic because it is the best way to emphasize the severity of xenophobia.



No the americas have  been discriminating against and killing people literally since Europeans set foot on its soil. It doesn't matter what the intent is--I am telling you how it is received by most. Just like people can tell people how their comments are received about Bruce even though they "do not intend" to discriminate.


----------



## shoegal

It doesn't have to happen to me and all that is obvious. But it doesn't mean I can't speak on it. And I should've said had a loved one killed - obviously. And I agree - not everyone has the same experience. But my argument remains the same - the two aren't the same. I am speaking about the general cultural experience - and just like everything else in life, there are exceptions to every rule.


----------



## ByeKitty

shoegal said:


> Willful ignorance is real. It gives people the opportunity to minimize reality. In our rush to "tolerate" we forget to celebrate real differences. No one is saying it's an excuse for slurs. But neither do you have to assassinate a poster because they say he - Kendall and Kylie still do. And so does their grand mom. This is a world who likes to tell black people to just get over it - well no. When what little you have left of your culture is appropriated and you are dismissed no. Then you say we will now appropriate your experience too? No. You don't have to like it or agree but it doesn't mean it's not true. And when you are killed or followed or stopped for being white, then talk to me about how do you know a white persons experience is better in life.



I didn't see anyone minimize reality for black people, I saw people adjust the reality for LGBT people. You don't know anything about our lives, what we have experienced and where we lived. I feel like I'm writing a biography but here goes: Prior to me dating the gorgeous dark skinned man I talked about earlier, I lived in East Africa for six months and let me tell you people weren't easy on my white a$$  They would follow me on the street, screaming "MUZUNGUUUUU" (white person). I didn't take it as an offense, but it wasn't inherently positive either. Even the locals I got along with had special words for muzungus like me, for instance they would always refer to me as "sister" - something they would never say to their "own people". Guys in the street would shout things about my a$$ (how it was a big booty for a white girl) in their local bantu language. It's tiresome never to blend in.


----------



## mama13drama99

AEGIS said:


> No the americas have  been discriminating against and killing people literally since Europeans set foot on its soil. It doesn't matter what the intent is--I am telling you how it is received by most. Just like people can tell people how their comments are received about Bruce even though they "do not intend" to discriminate.




Definitely true!!! About the first part.  I haven't chimed in because I don't even have the energy to go back and forth...it's too hot!  I've actually been reading since last night and decided remaining cool is more pressing than posting.  But seeing the comparisons had elicited hard [emoji102] rolls...each and everyone!!!


----------



## mama13drama99

While/since I've paused in my quest to remain cool, I sort of feel just a small need to point out that while many have interpreted my post to be everything under the sun that negative, and negative towards the entire transgender community, my post have not been that. My recent post, and I don't care to justify, have resorted to NO LONGER (cause I did early on) use the she/her pronoun.  That's not hate.  That's me throwing up my middle finger HERE due to the refusal of others allowing those of us who ain't cheering for Jenner to accept our point of view.  Be tired.  Need a vacation.  Be exhaust.  Etc.  I feel the same way.  My repeatedly pointing out that HE is not pretty and looks like a deer in headlights or a fish out of water isn't intolerant.  It's my perception of HIS wrinkly skin, saggy face constantly being photographed and plastered all over the Internet after claiming wanting to take care of HIS transition quietly.  Ha! I shudder to think of what it would look like on full blast if what the world is getting is HIS definition of quiet!!!  Then people keep referring to what others here are knowing doing by way of post all the while disguised.  Not over here!  I'm explicitly clear about my thoughts and feelings!!!  And I make no qualms about it!!!  Yet and still it's hatred and intolerant for me to say HE looks terrible no matter what his age is???  Can there be a thread created for opinion checking?? Sort of like an authentication thread, but one where we can share our post for approval before posting in various thread???  IJS...

OT...almost forgot that in this massive heatwave, FedEx just delivered some shoes [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16], headed over to the Louboutin subforum...and to finish my margarita...I may or may not be back in this thread today (not that I don't expect the private PM's and public responses about my post to go forth, or that I give two shakes (not the word I really want to use), but wanted to share that tidbit so as not to give anyone the inclination that I been scared away!


----------



## ByeKitty

See, it's posts like these that affirm to me how the comparison between the different types of xenophobia makes sense. Many people _don't get it_, they don't see when they're being offensive. This goes for both sides obviously. It's paradoxal that some comment how one side is being (unintentionally) offensive, and then turn around and do the exact same thing for another minority. If you're so damn tired of being "policed" for words, don't police others either!


----------



## mama13drama99

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Margaritas are a wonderful thing in the afternoon!!!  Chile bye!!! Miss me with it and move around!!!  At this point, as it relates to this thread, offensive is subjective to me.  You interpret whatever your heart desires from what is posted.  I no longer get all up in arms about the policing.  I just say my piece, as I have a right to do, and keep it moving.


----------



## Bentley1

dooneybaby said:


> No, they are not the same, and as a black woman I take slight offense to your stating they are. Unless you've walked in my shoes, how would you know?
> Bruce Jenner lived his life in the closet for 65 years. Now I'm not saying that's it's the most healthy thing for a person to do, but by hiding his true self, he was able to live, at least superficially, the American dream. (You notice I said superficially.)
> As a black woman THERE AIN'T NO HIDING.
> As I stated in a previous post, as a black kid growing up in New England in the 70s, I was called the N word just about every day for years. I would be in a department store and kids would point and laugh and say the N word. My mom had rocks thrown at her car and kids would shout the N word.
> I couldn't live in the closet to avoid the harassment. I couldn't hide my black skin. I was stuck with it so I had to live with it.
> Let's say I could have lived my life in the closet, making people believe I were white so that life would be easier, then to come out at age 65 to say, "Hey, I'm really black!" I don't have that luxury.




As clear and as great as this post is, there are those who will still boldly tell you that it's the same thing. People who haven't even dealt with either type of discrimination, that's the real kicker.


----------



## mama13drama99

Even removing the red eye, the look is still the same...deer in headlights and fish out of water = HAM!!!


----------



## Lounorada

The lips/mouth area is tragic and her nose will disappear if she has any more procedures done  
For all the money she has no doubt spent on PS, her face is terrifying  
Just, no.


----------



## Hobbsy

mama13drama99 said:


> While/since I've paused in my quest to remain cool, I sort of feel just a small need to point out that while many have interpreted my post to be everything under the sun that negative, and negative towards the entire transgender community, my post have not been that. My recent post, and I don't care to justify, have resorted to NO LONGER (cause I did early on) use the she/her pronoun.  That's not hate.  That's me throwing up my middle finger HERE due to the refusal of others allowing those of us who ain't cheering for Jenner to accept our point of view.  Be tired.  Need a vacation.  Be exhaust.  Etc.  I feel the same way.  My repeatedly pointing out that HE is not pretty and looks like a deer in headlights or a fish out of water isn't intolerant.  It's my perception of HIS wrinkly skin, saggy face constantly being photographed and plastered all over the Internet after claiming wanting to take care of HIS transition quietly.  Ha! I shudder to think of what it would look like on full blast if what the world is getting is HIS definition of quiet!!!  Then people keep referring to what others here are knowing doing by way of post all the while disguised.  Not over here!  I'm explicitly clear about my thoughts and feelings!!!  And I make no qualms about it!!!  Yet and still it's hatred and intolerant for me to say HE looks terrible no matter what his age is???  Can there be a thread created for opinion checking?? Sort of like an authentication thread, but one where we can share our post for approval before posting in various thread???  IJS...
> 
> OT...almost forgot that in this massive heatwave, FedEx just delivered some shoes [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16], headed over to the Louboutin subforum...and to finish my margarita...I may or may not be back in this thread today (not that I don't expect the private PM's and public responses about my post to go forth, or that I give two shakes (not the word I really want to use), but wanted to share that tidbit so as not to give anyone the inclination that I been scared away!



I, for one, applaud you. You are allowed to have and feel and express any opinion you have!! It's not disrespectful,  it's your opinion.  You haven't expressed any hate or slurs. Cheers! &#127864;&#127864;


----------



## cjy

dooneybaby said:


> I faced major discrimination too. Growing up as a black kid in the 70s in New England, I was called the N word just about every day for years. Rocks were thrown at my mom's car as she drove us to and from school.
> Let me clarify...
> Caitlyn s a public figure and criticism of her is just going to happen. Slurs ARE NOT acceptable in any forum, whether they refer to race, gender, sexual orientation, size, etc. You can express an opposing view without using slurs. As a matter of fact, the use of a slur of any kind should be grounds to be removed from this forum, permanently.
> We're all educated adults and we know what a slur is.
> We know better, so let's do better.


 Well said!!!


----------



## CobaltBlu

Ok we get it.  You want to call Caitlyn HE as some sort of symbolic stand. 
You made your point. 

And please notice that most people here who acknowledge the courage of Caitlyn's transition also equally acknowledge Bruce's terrible parenting and propensity to fame grab. Nobody is giving Caitlyn a pass on behavior, but her transition is real and I am encouraged that the bulk of the posters in this thread understand that she is part of a much bigger picture way beyond her reality TV universe.

It costs me zero to give Caitlyn a nod for her bravery, regardless of how much money she has, or her choice of venue and program to introduce herself to the world scene as a woman. And regardless of the apparent "ease" of her transition to some, it still opens her up to enormous ridicule, scrutiny, and even danger. And if she looks a little rough, so what. I don't understand leather pants in July but I am not going to quibble. 

She'll get better at this, maybe, and if not, so what. It doesn't hurt me to say nothing if I don't have anything nice to say, and yes, I give her a bit of slack because her circumstances are just a tad unusual and she is figuring things out. And doing it publicly, which wouldn't be my choice, but I don't pay her bills so I don't care.

She  identifies as a woman now, and for her and all the others whose pronouns no longer match their body parts or DNA, I am happy to let them choose what to be called, it costs me absolutely nothing to show compassion and live and let live.

Personally, I think both Caitlyn and Caitlyn in the Bruce years made some incredibly poor choices, but people are flawed, some more than others. Those mistakes and choices are to my mind completely separate from the gender transition.

If Caitlyn's public transition helps someone else feel more hopeful and able to live their life on their own terms, that's great.



mama13drama99 said:


> While/since I've paused in my quest to remain cool, I sort of feel just a small need to point out that while many have interpreted my post to be everything under the sun that negative, and negative towards the entire transgender community, my post have not been that. My recent post, and I don't care to justify, have resorted to NO LONGER (cause I did early on) use the she/her pronoun.  That's not hate.  That's me throwing up my middle finger HERE due to the refusal of others allowing those of us who ain't cheering for Jenner to accept our point of view.  Be tired.  Need a vacation.  Be exhaust.  Etc.  I feel the same way.  My repeatedly pointing out that HE is not pretty and looks like a deer in headlights or a fish out of water isn't intolerant.  It's my perception of HIS wrinkly skin, saggy face constantly being photographed and plastered all over the Internet after claiming wanting to take care of HIS transition quietly.  Ha! I shudder to think of what it would look like on full blast if what the world is getting is HIS definition of quiet!!!  Then people keep referring to what others here are knowing doing by way of post all the while disguised.  Not over here!  I'm explicitly clear about my thoughts and feelings!!!  And I make no qualms about it!!!  Yet and still it's hatred and intolerant for me to say HE looks terrible no matter what his age is???  Can there be a thread created for opinion checking?? Sort of like an authentication thread, but one where we can share our post for approval before posting in various thread???  IJS...
> 
> OT...almost forgot that in this massive heatwave, FedEx just delivered some shoes [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16], headed over to the Louboutin subforum...and to finish my margarita...I may or may not be back in this thread today (not that I don't expect the private PM's and public responses about my post to go forth, or that I give two shakes (not the word I really want to use), but wanted to share that tidbit so as not to give anyone the inclination that I been scared away!


----------



## CobaltBlu

PS y'all need to stop with the personal attacks.


----------



## Wildflower22

mama13drama99 said:


> Even removing the red eye, the look is still the same...deer in headlights and fish out of water = HAM!!!



For real. Why does she find it necessary to look so alarmed when she's on a pap stroll?


----------



## mama13drama99

And I'll continue to make my point!! It doesn't end at your dismissal!  It cost me zero to not give Jenner, either gender, a nod!  So one can only say something if it's nice???? Go tell that to all those clowns who burned down 12
churches through out the south or those who still rally and protest upholding the confederate flag!!!  Jenner don't pay my bills either so I truly don't care...to give HIM any slack that I wouldn't give to any other celeb that I've formed a not so nice, sugar and spice opinion about!!!

Let's turn off my notifications


----------



## ByeKitty

Wildflower22 said:


> For real. Why does she find it necessary to look so alarmed when she's on a pap stroll?



This is probably the only expression she can do


----------



## mama13drama99

Wildflower22 said:


> For real. Why does she find it necessary to look so alarmed when she's on a pap stroll?




I would think HE had at least overheard or stood idly by during one of the MANY preparation encounters the Trashians had.


----------



## SpeedyJC

dooneybaby said:


> No, they are not the same, and as a black woman I take slight offense to your stating they are. Unless you've walked in my shoes, how would you know?
> Bruce Jenner lived his life in the closet for 65 years. Now I'm not saying that's it's the most healthy thing for a person to do, but by hiding his true self, he was able to live, at least superficially, the American dream. (You notice I said superficially.)
> As a black woman THERE AIN'T NO HIDING.
> As I stated in a previous post, as a black kid growing up in New England in the 70s, I was called the N word just about every day for years. I would be in a department store and kids would point and laugh and say the N word. My mom had rocks thrown at her car and kids would shout the N word.
> I couldn't live in the closet to avoid the harassment. I couldn't hide my black skin. I was stuck with it so I had to live with it.
> Let's say I could have lived my life in the closet, making people believe I were white so that life would be easier, then to come out at age 65 to say, "Hey, I'm really black!" I don't have that luxury.



The fact that you say gays or transgenders have the choice to stay in the closet as your selling point is kind of twisted. What kind of choice is that? Do you know how many LGBT's commit suicide every year because of living in the closet? Living  in the closet, hiding who you are, not being able to love who you want to love isn't a luxury it's torture. 

I can't take this thread anymore.


----------



## SpeedyJC

Bentley1 said:


> As clear and as great as this post is, there are those who will still boldly tell you that it's the same thing. People who haven't even dealt with either type of discrimination, that's the real kicker.


 
I don't understand why this is turning into a discrimination competition.  I have plenty of discrimination  stories but I'm not going to use them to discount others. Ive had people assume I don't speak English for heavens sake.


----------



## Bentley1

SpeedyJC said:


> The fact that you say gays or transgenders have the choice to stay in the closet as your selling point is kind of twisted. What kind of choice is that? Do you know how many LGBT's commit suicide every year because of living in the closet? Living  in the closet, hiding who you are, not being able to love who you want to love isn't a luxury it's torture.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't take this thread anymore.




I don't want to answer for dooneybaby, I'm just responding with my little 2 cents. 

It's not that gays, transgender (LGBT) individuals should live in the closet or that, if they do, it's a cushy place to be. But the fact of the matter is, many of them do because
They can and because they have a choice to do so. Bruce did so for 65 years. I'm not minimizing that it was difficult, but he had a choice and he chose. Black people don't have that choice. It's not a choice of,
"I think I'll come out as black next year, when Xyz happens." 
I've known multiple people who are gay but have chosen to live a Hetero life. Happy or not, that's the choice they made. A black person can't say, I know I'm black but I think I'll go ahead a live life as a white person (or Asian or whatever).


----------



## Bentley1

SpeedyJC said:


> I don't understand why this is turning into a discrimination competition.  I have plenty of discrimination  stories but I'm not going to use them to discount others. Ive had people assume I don't speak English for heavens sake.




It's not a competition, it's posters trying to force the belief that being discriminated against as a black individual is the same as being discriminated against as a transgender  (LGBT). I'm neither black nor transgender, but I don't believe it's the same.
I've also been discriminated against in my lifetime, but that's neither here nor there.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn didn't earn that award, she bought that award.
Here I go being negative again.


----------



## Jayne1

Wildflower22 said:


> For real. Why does she find it necessary to look so alarmed when she's on a pap stroll?



It's not a stroll, though, she's filming and I wonder if the heels, false eyelashes and keeping the lipgloss on (it takes some getting used to) combined with some pain form the jaw, nose and cheek procedures is making her uncomfortable. 

She kinda looks uncomfortable, to me, anyway.


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Caitlyn didn't earn that award, she bought that award.
> Here I go being negative again.




She did. And most people know it, whether
They care to admit it or not. [emoji57]


----------



## SpeedyJC

Bentley1 said:


> It's not a competition, it's posters trying to force the belief that being discriminated against as a black individual is the same as being discriminated against as a transgender  (LGBT). I'm neither black nor transgender, but I don't believe it's the same.
> I've also been discriminated against in my lifetime, but that's neither here nor there.



Race discrimination and LGBT discrimination are totally seperate issues but I just didn't like the LGBT discrimination discounting going on by saying well the gays can all stay hiding in their closets. How about we all support one another? With that said you and whoever are free to think what you want.  

Done.


----------



## Cocolicious

If I had a tons of flashing cameras in my eyes...I would look like a mess too. Even with just my iPhone flash I need a minute to re focus.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Cruelty, unacceptance, pain, discrimination -  we spend our time attempting to quantify instead of eradicating. This thread is deeply saddening. We don't have to feel these in the same degrees for the emotions to be real amongst us or to have a right to comment. There are more meaningful and progressive conversations to have rather than having to prove how deep our battle scars are first.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Thingofbeauty said:


> Cruelty, unacceptance, pain, discrimination -  we spend our time attempting to quantify instead of eradicating. This thread is deeply saddening. We don't have to feel these in the same degrees for the emotions to be real amongst us or to have a right to comment. There are more meaningful and progressive conversations to have rather than having to prove how deep our battle scars are first.



True. Good post. 

I think both sides of the "whose discrimination is worse" debate need to remember the "If you want to know me, walk a mile in my shoes" saying.

For those who have not experienced the other side (or either, like me) it costs us nothing to just acknowledge that pain and reach out a friendly hand.

There are moderate, interesting voices on this thread - on both sides of the discussion about Caitlyn. Those are the posts I focus on.

And dang....while that black outfit is OTT...I'd wear it on a night out


----------



## Thingofbeauty

FreeSpirit71 said:


> True. Good post.
> 
> I think both sides of the "whose discrimination is worse" debate need to remember the "If you want to know me, walk a mile in my shoes" saying.
> 
> For those who have not experienced the other side (or either, like me) it costs us nothing to just acknowledge that pain and reach out a friendly hand.
> 
> There are moderate, interesting voices on this thread - on both sides of the discussion about Caitlyn. Those are the posts I focus on.
> 
> And dang....while that black outfit is OTT...I'd wear it on a night out


Acknowledgment and empathy is more than half the battle right there, from those who've experienced it as well as those who haven't. What black outfit?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

The black leather pants and shirt


----------



## Thingofbeauty

FreeSpirit71 said:


> The black leather pants and shirt


Ah! I had to scroll back quite a bit to see it. It's a nice outfit but not the most flattering on her. Also, has anybody else noticed how much emphasis the media now place on looks and clothing now that she's Caitlyn? It's almost all they focus on now. Welcome to womanhood Caitlyn, where how you look continues to ***** all. At least she gets the avoid the horrendous "Caitlyn pregnant with twins" headline every time she eats a burger!!!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Thingofbeauty said:


> Ah! I had to scroll back quite a bit to see it. It's a nice outfit but not the most flattering on her. Also, has anybody else noticed how much emphasis the media now place on looks and clothing now that she's Caitlyn? It's almost all they focus on now. Welcome to womanhood Caitlyn, where how you look continues to ***** all. At least she gets the avoid the horrendous "Caitlyn pregnant with twins" headline every time she eats a burger!!!



Jon Stewart addressed the media focus now on Caitlyn as a woman, a few weeks ago and pretty much nailed it.


----------



## ByeKitty

Bentley1 said:


> I don't want to answer for dooneybaby, I'm just responding with my little 2 cents.
> 
> It's not that gays, transgender (LGBT) individuals should live in the closet or that, if they do, it's a cushy place to be. But the fact of the matter is, many of them do because
> They can and because they have a choice to do so. Bruce did so for 65 years. I'm not minimizing that it was difficult, but he had a choice and he chose. Black people don't have that choice. It's not a choice of,
> "I think I'll come out as black next year, when Xyz happens."
> I've known multiple people who are gay but have chosen to live a Hetero life. Happy or not, that's the choice they made. A black person can't say, I know I'm black but I think I'll go ahead a live life as a white person (or Asian or whatever).



I'm not sure if I, the resident "pot stirrer", should go back now and comment on this... The reason I have kept commenting is because I just really want to understand, but also because there is another argument that I feel deserves to be made. And to be honest, I don't think the two arguments are mutually exclusive. I can totally see what you're saying, of course one doesn't "come out" as black, one just is. I never tried to compare the _life_ of a black person to the life of a gay person, or a transgender person. Nor have I equated calling Caitlyn a "he" to proudly waving the confederate flag. What I tried to say was that there's one aspect where the two groups find each other: they both are frequent victims of pointless acts of hate, and they both have (and continue to) put enormous amounts of effort into fighting for equality. That's really all there is to it. It's impossible to say whether one minority has it worse than the other but I do know one thing: all deserve freedom, which in this case means to be accepted for exactly who they are.


----------



## ByeKitty

Thingofbeauty said:


> Cruelty, unacceptance, pain, discrimination -  we spend our time attempting to quantify instead of eradicating. This thread is deeply saddening. We don't have to feel these in the same degrees for the emotions to be real amongst us or to have a right to comment. There are more meaningful and progressive conversations to have rather than having to prove how deep our battle scars are first.



Great post.


----------



## mundodabolsa

What blows my mind is why people are so up in arms about Caitlyn not being deserving of an ESPY award of all things. She didn't win a Nobel Prize people!  Not to diminish who Arthur Ashe was but it's an award handed out by a cable news network (otherwise known as entertainment) for achievements related to professional sports, another form of entertainment.  Of course an entertainer is going to be the one recognized!! 

Can anyone who cares so much even name who won this award last year, or ANY previous year without googling it??


----------



## Vienna

I can't believe people are saying this is a publicity stunt! Seriously?! The amount of courage this took as well as the obvious state of happiness she is in now is all that matters!


----------



## AEGIS

mama13drama99 said:


> Even removing the red eye, the look is still the same...deer in headlights and fish out of water = HAM!!!
> 
> View attachment 3068865
> 
> View attachment 3068867



I honestly think it's the facelift she got to look more like a woman


----------



## blackkitty4378

thingofbeauty said:


> cruelty, unacceptance, pain, discrimination -  we spend our time attempting to quantify instead of eradicating. This thread is deeply saddening. We don't have to feel these in the same degrees for the emotions to be real amongst us or to have a right to comment. There are more meaningful and progressive conversations to have rather than having to prove how deep our battle scars are first.



&#128079;&#128079;&#128079;


----------



## AEGIS

so when posters here tell other posters that their comments show a lack of empathy and that they essentially are ignorant and insensitive to one group, that is ok. but when another group of posters who are regular posters try to tell ppl hey...ur comments show a lack of empathy and is ignorant and insensitive and historically just inaccurate, they're dismissed. if that ain't some privileged bs.....


----------



## Thingofbeauty

How does one reply to more than one post?


----------



## ByeKitty

AEGIS said:


> so when posters here tell other posters that their comments show a lack of empathy and that they essentially are ignorant and insensitive to one group, that is ok. but when another group of posters who are regular posters try to tell ppl hey...ur comments show a lack of empathy and is ignorant and insensitive and historically just inaccurate, they're dismissed. if that ain't some privileged bs.....



What did anyone say that was historically inaccurate? I really want to know. We didn't get into history did we?


----------



## ByeKitty

Thingofbeauty said:


> How does one reply to more than one post?


If you're on PC, check the little rounds under the posts you want to quote, and for the last one press the regular "quote" button!


----------



## blackkitty4378

The way I see it is: I've faced adversity in my own life, and when I see similar things happen to other people, I get just as mad. Even if what I went through was worse, I don't try to compare it... It's just wrong to me. End of story.

So I don't really understand how while the experiences are different, one can hide who they are, etc. I don't really see how that really matters because the source is the same: bigotry. At the end of the day you're both human beings being attacked, discriminated against, and killed for who you are and that's wrong. JMO.


----------



## usmcwifey

mistikat said:


> Yahoo provides content in its news feed based on what you read:
> 
> Yahoo is watching you, whether you like it or not.
> 
> Yahoo said this week that the company will stop honoring "Do Not Track" requests made by a user's browser. It will now actively attempt to track your interactions with its site and its content.
> 
> "Here at Yahoo, we work hard to provide our users with a highly personalized experience," the ironically named "Yahoo Privacy Team" wrote in a blog post. "We keep people connected to what matters most to them, across devices and around the world. We fundamentally believe the best web is a personalized one."
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2150...licy-in-favor-of-personalized-experience.html
> 
> Since you are apparently clicking on these stories elsewhere, that is what Yahoo believes interests you. So if you don't want to read about Kardashians, Jenners or anything else, best thing to do is not click on those stories/sites.




That's weird because a lot of stuff I've never clicked on or read about appear on my feed....I mainly read political articles or local news stories .... Yet "bubba watson" Keeps popping up on my feed....I've never read a golf story in my life! Lol so yeah I dunno about this....


----------



## SpeedyJC

blackkitty4378 said:


> The way I see it is: I've faced adversity in my own life, and when I see similar things happen to other people, I get just as mad. Even if what I went through was worse, I don't try to compare it... It's just wrong to me. End of story.
> 
> So I don't really understand how while the experiences are different, one can hide who they are, etc. I don't really see how that really matters because the source is the same: bigotry. At the end of the day you're both human beings being attacked, discriminated against, and killed for who you are and that's wrong. JMO.



That was a great post.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

blackkitty4378 said:


> The way I see it is: I've faced adversity in my own life, and when I see similar things happen to other people, I get just as mad. Even if what I went through was worse, I don't try to compare it... It's just wrong to me. End of story.
> 
> So I don't really understand how while the experiences are different, one can hide who they are, etc. I don't really see how that really matters because the source is the same: bigotry. At the end of the day you're both human beings being attacked, discriminated against, and killed for who you are and that's wrong. JMO.


This touched me


----------



## Thingofbeauty

ByeKitty said:


> If you're on PC, check the little rounds under the posts you want to quote, and for the last one press the regular "quote" button!


Thanks! I'm on my iPad so I'll have to try later because laziness and lack of shame about it


----------



## bisousx

blackkitty4378 said:


> The way I see it is: I've faced adversity in my own life, and when I see similar things happen to other people, I get just as mad. Even if what I went through was worse, I don't try to compare it... It's just wrong to me. End of story.
> 
> So I don't really understand how while the experiences are different, one can hide who they are, etc. I don't really see how that really matters because the source is the same: bigotry. At the end of the day you're both human beings being attacked, discriminated against, and killed for who you are and that's wrong. JMO.



+1  Even though we don't always agree on other subjects, I can tell you have a kind heart.


----------



## ByeKitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> The way I see it is: I've faced adversity in my own life, and when I see similar things happen to other people, I get just as mad. Even if what I went through was worse, I don't try to compare it... It's just wrong to me. End of story.
> 
> So I don't really understand how while the experiences are different, one can hide who they are, etc. I don't really see how that really matters because the source is the same: bigotry. At the end of the day you're both human beings being attacked, discriminated against, and killed for who you are and that's wrong. JMO.



Very well said


----------



## labelwhore04

blackkitty4378 said:


> The way I see it is: I've faced adversity in my own life, and when I see similar things happen to other people, I get just as mad. Even if what I went through was worse, I don't try to compare it... It's just wrong to me. End of story.
> 
> So I don't really understand how while the experiences are different, one can hide who they are, etc. I don't really see how that really matters because the source is the same: bigotry. At the end of the day you're both human beings being attacked, discriminated against, and killed for who you are and that's wrong. JMO.



+1. Its not a comparison of which groups have had it worse, its not a competition. We are all affected by hate and bigotry. My grandparents who were Japanese-Canadians were put into an internment camp during WW2, all of their assets were taken from them and they were separated from their families, all because of how they looked and who they were. It sickens me that our own government would promote such hate and it makes me so upset that they went through that. Everyone's story and experiences are different but the end result is the same, discrimination is awful and causes an immense amount of pain to anyone affected.


----------



## dooneybaby

Bentley1 said:


> I don't want to answer for dooneybaby, I'm just responding with my little 2 cents.
> 
> It's not that gays, transgender (LGBT) individuals should live in the closet or that, if they do, it's a cushy place to be. But the fact of the matter is, many of them do because
> They can and because they have a choice to do so. Bruce did so for 65 years. I'm not minimizing that it was difficult, but he had a choice and he chose. Black people don't have that choice. It's not a choice of,
> "I think I'll come out as black next year, when Xyz happens."
> I've known multiple people who are gay but have chosen to live a Hetero life. Happy or not, that's the choice they made. A black person can't say, I know I'm black but I think I'll go ahead a live life as a white person (or Asian or whatever).


Thank you. That's the point I'm trying to make.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I don't know why we have to try to quantify either side as having less or greater pain. 

It comes down to equality, and human beings treating each other in a bloody shabby manner due to things they cannot change; sexuality and skin colour.

Persecution of both still exists to this day, in many forms.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> She did. And most people know it, whether
> They care to admit it or not. [emoji57]


----------



## horse17

jeesh..Im afraid to ask this question..but I dont feel like going back into the depth of pages inthis thread...so im going to ask...does jenner still have a pen$$...?


----------



## krissa

horse17 said:


> jeesh..Im afraid to ask this question..but I dont feel like going back into the depth of pages inthis thread...so im going to ask...does jenner still have a pen$$...?



most likely. But having a penis doesn't discount him from being a woman.


----------



## horse17

krissa said:


> most likely. But having a penis doesn't discount him from being a woman.


ok..I was wondering about this...so how come he still has one?....


----------



## FreeSpirit71

horse17 said:


> jeesh..Im afraid to ask this question..but I dont feel like going back into the depth of pages inthis thread...so im going to ask...does jenner still have a pen$$...?



I think so. In the DS interview she was unsure how far she may go. At her age the surgery to physically change that aspect comes with many additional risks. Even if she was younger that surgery in particular is rife with stories of it being botched with very painful side effects.


----------



## Cocolicious

krissa said:


> most likely. But having a penis doesn't discount him from being a woman.



What does discount someone from being a woman?


----------



## horse17

^..oh..ok....I just figured that if one wanted to become a woman, that would be one of the most important changes..along with breasts..


----------



## krissa

Cocolicious said:


> What does discount someone from being a woman?



idk. I was just trying to remain respectful and pc. Obvs women is open ended. I'm not trying to get into a debate. I was just trying to answer the question and not offend.


----------



## Cocolicious

krissa said:


> idk. I was just trying to remain respectful and pc. Obvs women is open ended. I'm not trying to get into a debate. I was just trying to answer the question and not offend.


Oh I wasn't either.. I was just curious about what really does discount someone from being a women or even a man. I thought you had a legit answer and just wanted to hear it.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Cocolicious said:


> Oh I wasn't either.. I was just curious about what really does discount someone from being a women or even a man. I thought you had a legit answer and just wanted to hear it.



That's a legit question. I think it comes down to if the individual identifies themselves as female ie; gender identity, not the community at large.


----------



## ByeKitty

horse17 said:


> ^..oh..ok....I just figured that if one wanted to become a woman, that would be one of the most important changes..along with breasts..



I've heard transgender people differ a lot on this, some have a lot of issues with their genitals, and others have less problems with it... So in some cases the surgery makes a lot of sense and in other cases I can imagine deciding not to have the surgery. It seems quite invasive, right?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

From wiki (fountain of knowledge...and sometimes not):



> Gender identity is one's personal experience of one's own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female.


----------



## krissa

I thought this was an interesting read :

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/what-makes-a-woman.html


----------



## AEGIS

ByeKitty said:


> What did anyone say that was historically inaccurate? I really want to know. We didn't get into history did we?



You are speaking of history when you evoke the ziegeist of the civil rights movement no?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

krissa said:


> I thought this was an interesting read :
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/what-makes-a-woman.html



Bravo to some of the comments too.


----------



## Hobbsy

Gender identity and gender are 2 different things. Caitlyn/Bruce identifies as a female but is a male.


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> Gender identity and gender are 2 different things. Caitlyn/Bruce identifies as a female but is a male.



I think you're confusing sex and gender... Gender is what you identify as, and I think sex is something you can't really change because it's determined by chromosomes.


----------



## horse17

so whats the diff between transgender and transsexual?


----------



## Hobbsy

ByeKitty said:


> I think you're confusing sex and gender... Gender is what you identify as, and I think sex is something you can't really change because it's determined by chromosomes.



No, I am not confusing anything. Thank you.&#128522;


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm confused, and will forever remain confused on how Jenner can repeatedly refer to himself as the children's *dad*, but yet, consider himself a woman. Why not refer to himself as the children's mother? He can't have it both ways. 

I have to ask myself why the public wasn't more understanding when Rachel  Dolezal, a white female was pretending to be black because that's the  race she equated herself with. What's the difference? Jenner identifies as female, Dolezal identified herself as black.
 I can't help but  think deep down it's more a chemical imbalance, and yes, I know by  saying that I've probably opened up a can of worms. So be it.

As  hard as he tries, as much money as he spends, as much as he changes his  physical appearance, he cannot change his DNA. Plain and simple.
I'm stating my opinion so no need for debate.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

horse17 said:


> so whats the diff between transgender and transsexual?



There's plenty of information on this, if you look.

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2013/01/a-comprehensive-list-of-lgbtq-term-definitions/


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> No, I am not confusing anything. Thank you.&#128522;



Maybe I should've explained myself better, but here is the usual distinction: the difference between gender and sex is that sex is biological and gender isn't.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm confused, and will forever remain confused on how Jenner can repeatedly refer to himself as the children's *dad*, but yet, consider himself a woman. Why not refer to himself as the children's mother? He can't have it both ways.
> 
> I have to ask myself why the public wasn't more understanding when Rachel  Dolezal, a white female was pretending to be black because that's the  race she equated herself with. What's the difference? Jenner identifies as female, Dolezal identified herself as black.
> I can't help but  think deep down it's more a chemical imbalance, and yes, I know by  saying that I've probably opened up a can of worms. So be it.
> 
> As  hard as he tries, as much money as he spends, as much as he changes his  physical appearance, he cannot change his DNA. Plain and simple.
> I'm stating my opinion so no need for debate.



If people don't agree, they'll debate it. Its sort of the essence of discussion.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> If people don't agree, they'll debate it. Its sort of the essence of discussion.



The word *debate* could also be considered questionable. Guess it's which side you're on.


----------



## horse17

^  well its interesting you saying that...I was with some older people this weekend..70's and 80's..and we were discussing Jenner....someone said that if he still has a penis than Im still going to refer to him as a "he" not a "she".....this is what prompted my question here....granted these are all very well rounded individuals, but it is confusing.....Im responding to coach Lover Too post


----------



## Hobbsy

ByeKitty said:


> Maybe I should've explained myself better, but here is the usual distinction: the difference between gender and sex is that sex is biological and gender isn't.



Read more on it. &#9786;


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> The word *debate* could also be considered questionable. Guess it's which side you're on.



That's your misinterpretation. I'm not on any "side". It doesn't need to be so black and white.


----------



## louvigilante

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm confused, and will forever remain confused on how Jenner can repeatedly refer to himself as the children's *dad*, but yet, consider himself a woman. Why not refer to himself as the children's mother? He can't have it both ways.
> 
> I have to ask myself why the public wasn't more understanding when Rachel  Dolezal, a white female was pretending to be black because that's the  race she equated herself with. What's the difference? Jenner identifies as female, Dolezal identified herself as black.
> I can't help but  think deep down it's more a chemical imbalance, and yes, I know by  saying that I've probably opened up a can of worms. So be it.
> 
> As  hard as he tries, as much money as he spends, as much as he changes his  physical appearance, he cannot change his DNA. Plain and simple.
> I'm stating my opinion so no need for debate.




Dad is just a name to her and her kids. She doesn't want to take the name they call her away from them nor should she have to because of the definition we know it. I get it, my friends call me a certain name and by definition I am not that, but it was a play off of a name and we all went with it and that is how I'm known to them by name.  

Btw, not causing a debate, but wanted to state a different take on how we use names.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> The word *debate* could also be considered questionable. Guess it's which side you're on.



Do you consider debate more negative than discussion? I always assumed they were synonyms. Also, don't count me on any side but my own, I'll agree with you if you write something I agree with


----------



## blackkitty4378

bisousx said:


> +1  Even though we don't always agree on other subjects, I can tell you have a kind heart.



Awww. Thank you.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> Do you consider debate more negative than discussion? I always assumed they were synonyms. Also, don't count me on any side but my own, I'll agree with you if you write something I agree with



Maybe I should have clarified. Debates are one thing.* Personal *attacks because of a difference of opinion are another.


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> Maybe I should have clarified. Debates are one thing.* Personal *attacks because of a difference of opinion are another.



I don't see anyone attacking you.....:wondering


----------



## blackkitty4378

Coach Lover Too said:


> Maybe I should have clarified. Debates are one thing.* Personal *attacks because of a difference of opinion are another.



What someone said to you yesterday was wrong. I don't think ByeKitty would do that though.


----------



## Crystalina

This thread is embarrassing. GROW UP,  EVERYONE!!!!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sorry I wasn't meaning anyone specific, just stating in general.

It's so odd watching KUWTK knowing what we know now. Must be a marathon on this weekend.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Maybe I should have clarified. Debates are one thing.* Personal *attacks because of a difference of opinion are another.



Agree. I like a good debate.  Can't get personal about fellow posters though, which you don't.


----------



## Bentley1

mistikat said:


> I don't see anyone attacking you.....:wondering




Not yet.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> Not yet.



Close though.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> Close though.




Yeah, exactly. [emoji53]


----------



## CobaltBlu

krissa said:


> I thought this was an interesting read :
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/what-makes-a-woman.html



Thank you for posting.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> Sorry I wasn't meaning anyone specific, just stating in general.
> 
> It's so odd watching KUWTK knowing what we know now. Must be a marathon on this weekend.



Lol...Coach why are you torturing yourself? I can't stand any of the girls monotonous tones and lack of vocab. It drives me bananas. I watched a full episode once. And that was pleeeeeenty.


----------



## mama13drama99

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Lol...Coach why are you torturing yourself? I can't stand any of the girls monotonous tones and lack of vocab. It drives me bananas. I watched a full episode once. And that was pleeeeeenty.




Stranger things have bridged gaps FreeSpirit71...I thought I was the only one who cringed at the sounds of their voices (jk, I know better, but I don't really visit their threads to concur with others because those girls really get on my nerves!).  How they talk and the sound of their voices is...the same as a siren piercing my ears at 3:00 a.m.  No better yet, it's like when TV stations do the, "This is a test..." and then you hear that "noise"!  I would rather listen to the lady form the show the Nanny than listen to them speak!!!


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Jon Stewart addressed the media focus now on Caitlyn as a woman, a few weeks ago and pretty much nailed it.




This was really good. Absolutely spot on, love Jon Stewart.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Maybe I should have clarified. Debates are one thing.* Personal *attacks because of a difference of opinion are another.



I think we're on the same page here! This happened to both of us in the past 2 days or so. Not nice.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Question for those who watched the ESPY's, did they show the Jenner/kardashian children sitting in the audience other times during the show? 

I read that they were seated for the one award and then immediately left.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Question for those who watched the ESPY's, did they show the Jenner/kardashian children sitting in the audience other times during the show?
> 
> I read that they were seated for the one award and then immediately left.



No, they didn't show them and that makes perfect sense.  Again.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> No, they didn't show them and that makes perfect sense.  Again.




Aha. I read that tucked into a Jenner but more about  Marshawn Lynch's  Nickelodeon&#8217;s Kids&#8217; Choice Sports award, article. 
"Incidentally, according to an eyewitness, those friends and family of Jenner seen in the audience as Jenner accepted her ESPY, arrived just before the presentation and bolted the moment that segment ended. More of what it stunk like &#8212; a shallow, made-by and made-for TV set-up. The seats were then reoccupied by seat-fillers."

http://nypost.com/2015/07/18/caitlyn-jenner-marshawn-lynch-and-how-we-reward-sports-worst/


----------



## lizmil

Encore Hermes said:


> Aha. I read that tucked into a Jenner but more about  Marshawn Lynch's  Nickelodeons Kids Choice Sports award, article.
> "Incidentally, according to an eyewitness, those friends and family of Jenner seen in the audience as Jenner accepted her ESPY, arrived just before the presentation and bolted the moment that segment ended. More of what it stunk like  a shallow, made-by and made-for TV set-up. The seats were then reoccupied by seat-fillers."
> 
> http://nypost.com/2015/07/18/caitlyn-jenner-marshawn-lynch-and-how-we-reward-sports-worst/



Oh, so the Jenner (Ks too if they were there, dunno) were rude, self centered, disrespectful and focused on the publicity stunt aspect of the situation. Who'da thunk it?


----------



## Encore Hermes

lizmil said:


> Oh, so the Jenner *(Ks too if they were there, dunno)* were rude, self centered, disrespectful and focused on the publicity stunt aspect of the situation. Who'da thunk it?



they were there and had the best seats of the family. His oldest are to the side and behind.


----------



## dangerouscurves

bisousx said:


> I think people are getting upset because it sounds like their experiences with discrimination are being compared with others' experiences. And if you look at it that way, you can't compare two people's experiences, nor can you lump everyone with the same race or orientation into one group either.
> 
> But that's not what some of us are trying to compare here.
> 
> As a minority, I haven't experienced extreme racism other than being called slurs once in awhile, visiting certain parts of the country. On the other hand, when I was in h.s. I watched my friend get pushed down the stairs by a group of boys for no other reason than what she looked like. I can't speak for her experience, nor can she speak for mine. But I can tell you that the _reason behind why we were treated that way_ comes from the same damn place.




Completely agree. Discrimination is discrimination, doesn't matter whether it's for your race, sex orientation, sex identification, the size of your body, the way you look. There's discrimination for everything! In my opinion, as someone who gets discriminated (for being Asian) I should understand more this issue.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Encore Hermes said:


> they were there and had the best seats of the family. His oldest are to the side and behind.
> 
> i3.cdnds.net/15/29/kardashians-espy.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> i4.cdnds.net/15/29/caitlyn-jenner-kids.jpg




Caitlyn does have good genes.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

The whole sitting in the audience right before you get your award and peace out immediately afterwards is nothing new.....especially when it's a fan voted award show. A lot of celebrities do that unless it's the Grammys/Globes/Oscars. Just goes to show which award show is taken seriously and which isn't.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> Agree. I like a good debate.  Can't get personal about fellow posters though, which you don't.





Bentley1 said:


> Not yet.





Jayne1 said:


> Close though.





Bentley1 said:


> Yeah, exactly. [emoji53]





FreeSpirit71 said:


> Lol...Coach why are you torturing yourself? I can't stand any of the girls monotonous tones and lack of vocab. It drives me bananas. I watched a full episode once. And that was pleeeeeenty.



I needed something to help me fall asleep! 



ByeKitty said:


> I think we're on the same page here! This happened to both of us in the past 2 days or so. Not nice.



I know right?? Sometimes this thread moves so fast and things get distorted and lost in translation and the next thing you know, all h*ll's breaking loose!  

Sorry if I've unintentionally offended someone.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*D.L. Hughley Insults Caitlyn Jenner and Criticizes Decision to Give Her ESPYs Award, Internet Reacts*

Comedian and TV actor *D.L. Hughley* is not a fan of *Caitlyn Jenner*.
In an on-air interview with TMZ, posted on Friday, the 52-year-old, known for his work on _The Original Kings of Comedy_, insulted the 65-year-old Olympian and reality star over her appearance, more than a month after she revealed her female name and look on the cover of _Vanity Fair_, and criticized the decision to give her the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the 2015 ESPYs.


(With the release of the _Vanity Fair_ story,  Caitlyn has chosen to identify publicly as a woman and E! News will  refer to her using female pronouns. In stories published before that  article, she was referred to as *Bruce Jenner* and male pronouns were used.)
"She is a beautiful woman, isn't she?" the TMZ cameraman asked Hughley.
"No,"  he replied quickly, before launching into comedy shtick. Many standup  comedians, especially in Los Angeles, have joked about Jenner onstage  since she revealed her female identity.
"In a Miss Doubtfire kind of way. Stop it," Hughley said, adding that Jenner "looks like very P.E. teacher I've ever had."



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Jenner has not commented on his insulting remarks. And Hughley is  standing by them. On Saturday, he posted on Twitter a photo showing  Jenner at the ESPYs and a picture of *Robin Williams* as his title character in _Mrs. Doubtfire_.
"Somebody tell me I'm wrong #TeamDL," Hughley tweeted.
Some found his comment funny, while others slammed him for his remarks and called him a bully.
"Wooow you are seriously so irresponsible to use your fame to ruthlessly bully this woman," one person replied. "What did Jenner do to u?? pathetic."
"I've now unfollowed on FB & Twitter," another user said. "I don't get your bullying. Always thought you'd support people living their true selves." 



*
*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Sporting a white *Atelier Versace* gown, Jenner made her first major public appearance as a transgender woman at the awards, which were held on Wednesday, and gave an inspirational speech.
Ashe,  the first and only black man to win the singles title at Wimbledon,  died at age 49 in 1993 after battling AIDS. Hughley told TMZ he was a  "symbol of courage."
"He fought AIDS with dignity and honor and Caitlyn Jenner put on a dress," he said. "I don't think it's the same thing."
Reactions to Jenner's speech were mixed. Many said on social media that the Arthur Ashe Courage Award should have gone to *Lauren Hill*,  a Mount St. Joseph women's basketball player who raised more than $1.5  million for cancer research before she died of the brain cancer at age  19 last April. During the ESPYs, her parents accepted another honor, the  Best Moment Award, on her behalf.
"I think that Lauren Hill was  courage in the name of sports," Hughley told TMZ. "I think Arthur Ashe  and Caitlyn Jenner have very little in common."


http://www.eonline.com/news/677682/...ision-to-give-her-espys-award-internet-reacts



*Watch the premiere of Caitlyn Jenner's new docu-series I Am Cait on July 26 at 8 p.m. on E!*


----------



## dangerouscurves

The good thing about Indonesian language is that it doesn't have gender personal pronouns. Both she and he is 'dia'.


----------



## nycmom

ByeKitty said:


> I think we're on the same page here! This happened to both of us in the past 2 days or so. Not nice.



ByeKitty, in the midst of the craziness this thread has become you are a true class act!


----------



## ByeKitty

nycmom said:


> ByeKitty, in the midst of the craziness this thread has become you are a true class act!



Aww thanks


----------



## Coach Lover Too

nycmom said:


> ByeKitty, in the midst of the craziness this thread has become you are a true class act!



I agree, especially since the two of us got off on the wrong foot at first.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Hobbsy said:


> Gender identity and gender are 2 different things. Caitlyn/Bruce identifies as a female but is a male.




You are right they are two different things but  you're mixing up the definitions of gender, gender identity, and sex. 

Gender identity is one's personal experience of their gender. Caitlyn identifies as female.

Gender is the social roles based on the person's sex. Caitlyn, when she was Bruce, was already assigned male at birth because of his physical features.

 Sex is the physical anatomy of the person. Caitlyn was originally male because her physical features were that of a male.

That's what I learned in my class. It was super confusing but I eventually got the hang of it.


----------



## Hobbsy

Yoshi1296 said:


> You are right they are two different things but  you're mixing up the definitions of gender, gender identity, and sex.
> 
> Gender identity is one's personal experience of their gender. Caitlyn identifies as female.
> 
> Gender is the social roles based on the person's sex. Caitlyn, when she was Bruce, was already assigned male at birth because of his physical features.
> 
> Sex is the physical anatomy of the person. Caitlyn was originally male because her physical features were that of a male.
> 
> That's what I learned in my class. It was super confusing but I eventually got the hang of it.



I think that's what I said?! &#9786;


----------



## Sasha2012

Following her first big public appearance as a woman at the ESPY Awards on Wednesday, Caitlyn Jenner has been living it up with a night out at Nobu and a day at the races.

But it was less of a lavish affair for the transgender 65-year-old on Saturday, as she partied the night away at famed gay bar The Abbey in West Hollywood.

Caitlyn was pictured leaving the venue after letting her hair down on a night out with her friends.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ties-night-away-LA-gay-bar.html#ixzz3gNySOX8f


----------



## ByeKitty

Her face looks like it's melting...


----------



## Jayne1

I don't know -- she's 65.  I can't get on board with the short short dresses.


----------



## AEGIS

does he know where Kylie is?


----------



## Jayne1

Does she care?


----------



## AEGIS

Jayne1 said:


> Does she care?



smdh. and that's the worst thing.your daughter is out snapchatting herself drunk driving but you're filming your reality tv show and getting your 65 year old thottie on. it's just awful.  she is still her father [lol that's a funny sentence].


----------



## Freckles1

She hasn't had THE surgery yet, has she? Being 65 has to be taken into account with this being a MAJOR surgery - infection - I just wonder how risky this is. My Dad is 73 and man I don't want him anywhere near a hospital these days!!!! You go in, you might not come out!!!!


----------



## chowlover2

I wonder if Caitlyn will start wearing butt pads. If she does, we will know she is a true K!


----------



## AEGIS

chowlover2 said:


> I wonder if Caitlyn will start wearing butt pads. If she does, we will know she is a true K!



..that and date a black guy.....just wait on it


----------



## Tiny_T

AEGIS said:


> ..that and date a black guy.....just wait on it


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> Her face looks like it's melting...



I was thinking that same thing too. The nostrils also look screwed up.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I dunno about y'all, but honestly seeing the pics makes me kinda sad for some reason. I knew Bruce as Bruce for ALL those years and it really is like that person died. I can't imagine how the kids must feel. No wonder Kylie's life is one big cluster f***.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

The way the WHOLE family purposely poofs their lips out almost drives me to drink!


----------



## bisousx

Coach Lover Too said:


> I dunno about y'all, but honestly seeing the pics makes me kinda sad for some reason. I knew Bruce as Bruce for ALL those years and it really is like that person died. I can't imagine how the kids must feel. No wonder Kylie's life is one big cluster f***.



Agree. Although I am happy for Caitlyn as an individual, I would be _devastated_ if my dad turned out to be anything other than the person I know him as. If my brother or sister came out, I don't think I'd blink


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I dunno about y'all, but honestly seeing the pics makes me kinda sad for some reason. I knew Bruce as Bruce for ALL those years and it really is like that person died. I can't imagine how the kids must feel. No wonder Kylie's life is one big cluster f***.




I agree! Kathy Lee Gifford was on Watch What Happens Live the other night. Andy asked her if she ever had any idea as she has known him 33 yrs. she said she was stunned. Also Kris felt their time together was a lie, so maybe that's why she has been so quiet.   Anyway, I do hope Kendall & Kylie are getting professional help. I think I would need it if I were in their shoes.

You know what surprises me, in the Diane Sawyer interview Caitlyn said Bruce went out dressed as a woman, and no one knew. I'm sorry, even with the surgery I can tell she is Bruce. No offense to him, there are some gorgeous transgender women out there. I think it helps if you change earlier in life. She is either fooling herself or surrounded by a bunch of yes people as all the K's are.


----------



## Jayne1

chowlover2 said:


> You know what surprises me, in the Diane Sawyer interview Caitlyn said Bruce went out dressed as a woman, and no one knew. I'm sorry, even with the surgery I can tell she is Bruce. No offense to him, there are some gorgeous transgender women out there. I think it helps if you change earlier in life. She is either fooling herself or surrounded by a bunch of yes people as all the K's are.



That'w what I was thinking.  She's very tall, just that calls attention.  Unless she was dressed in a cape, hiding her face, or something.


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> That'w what I was thinking.  She's very tall, just that calls attention.  Unless she was dressed in a cape, hiding her face, or something.




In a way all of this makes me sad for regular people who are transgendered. So many can't find or hold down jobs, can't afford all the surgery or the makeup and glam squad Caitlin has. I am glad she can live as her authentic self, but I am sick of all the gushing. 

And you know what else I find strange? How she had never met another transgender until 2 months ago. If you were dealing with this, wouldn't you do as much research as possible and talk to as many transgender people that you could? If anonymity was required, I am sure there are forums where you can speak freely with others. So much of it is strange, and I am not transphobic in the least.

I am still waiting for her to open her wallet and let money start helping other transgendered individuals. Particularly youth and people who cannot afford the luxuries she has had as a wealthy, white man. Otherwise, she is as much a fameho as the K's. An authentic life is not pap walks and photo shoots.


----------



## V0N1B2

chowlover2 said:


> In a way all of this makes me sad for regular people who are transgendered. So many can't find or hold down jobs, can't afford all the surgery or the makeup and glam squad Caitlin has. I am glad she can live as her authentic self, but I am sick of all the gushing.
> 
> And you know what else I find strange? How she had never met another transgender until 2 months ago. If you were dealing with this, wouldn't you do as much research as possible and talk to as many transgender people that you could? If anonymity was required, I am sure there are forums where you can speak freely with others. So much of it is strange, and I am not transphobic in the least.
> 
> I am still waiting for her to open her wallet and let money start helping other transgendered individuals. Particularly youth and people who cannot afford the luxuries she has had as a wealthy, white man. Otherwise, she is as much a fameho as the K's. An authentic life is not pap walks and photo shoots.


I love you chow 
I keep waiting to see Caitlyn being papped walking into the LA LGBT Centre.
I'm waiting to hear about her mentoring transgendered youth, delivering meals to elderly TG shut-ins who came out long before anyone ever heard of Bruce Jenner, enjoying the summer concert series with new friends, anything to show some kind of solidarity with her new "community".  Instead, we get pap walks to dinner at Nobu, watching the pride parade from a window, partying at a gay bar, and a day at the races with big floppy hats.

I'm hopeful that her show will feature her doing something.....
meaningful.


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I dunno about y'all, but honestly seeing the pics makes me kinda sad for some reason. I knew Bruce as Bruce for ALL those years and it really is like that person died. I can't imagine how the kids must feel. No wonder Kylie's life is one big cluster f***.



It kinda makes me sad as well.  We used to see Bruce at our local Starbucks and gas station all the time and he was always very pleasant and chatty.  He would drive different cars and people would go up to him and chat with him about his cars & he was very personable and nice.  The opposite of PMK who was a total bish the one time we saw her at the same gas station.


----------



## chowlover2

V0N1B2 said:


> I love you chow
> 
> I keep waiting to see Caitlyn being papped walking into the LA LGBT Centre.
> 
> I'm waiting to hear about her mentoring transgendered youth, delivering meals to elderly TG shut-ins who came out long before anyone ever heard of Bruce Jenner, enjoying the summer concert series with new friends, anything to show some kind of solidarity with her new "community".  Instead, we get pap walks to dinner at Nobu, watching the pride parade from a window, partying at a gay bar, and a day at the races with big floppy hats.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hopeful that her show will feature her doing something.....
> 
> meaningful.




I love you too! 2 weeks ago we had one of the longest running transgender events in the country in Philly. This was it's 14th year. I kept hoping we would see Caitlin as a participant, but no, too busy being papped in NYC. There's always next year-LOL!

Like I said earlier, I would have met other people online with transgender issues. Become friends and then slowly incorporate into my current life. Who are these people she is pictured with? Probably transgender fameho's like herself trying to nab a spot in her TV show. 

Will she fade into obscurity after the show airs? Is she drumming up interest in the show! I have no intention of watching, I am disappointed with her. I would love to see her travel to the heartland of the U.S. And meet with transgender youth there. Big cities on the East and West Coast are much more accepting of people than middle America. I feel she could make a great impact there. And yes, delivering meals and such to TG individuals would be wonderful and meaningful. 

Was she really jealous of the K's and their attention all these years? I wish I knew what was going on under her wig...


----------



## dooneybaby

krissa said:


> idk. I was just trying to remain respectful and pc. Obvs women is open ended. I'm not trying to get into a debate. I was just trying to answer the question and not offend.


You ask a wonderful question.
This is the kind of subject that I find fascinating. What makes a person female and what makes a person male. Is it biological, psychological, genetic, chemical? 
I love reading the research and opinions of psychologists, endocrinologists, biologists, people experiencing gender identity issues, etc. It's a very complex and interesting subject, and in my opinion, the only way one can come close to understanding gender identify if not dealing with it themselves is to ask questions and to learn about it.
I honestly don't know whether that can be done on this forum. There are too many assumptions and too much sensitivity. 
That's why I plan to watch "I am Jazz" on TLC. It's about girl who was born male, but at a very, very young age knew that she was female, and her parents are raising her as such. I believe she's now 14 years old. I've seen videos by Jazz beginning at age 11. Even at that age she was very well-spoken, intelligent and had a good sense of self. I believe the series begins this week.


----------



## dooneybaby

AEGIS said:


> ..that and date a black guy.....just wait on it


The Kardashians/Jenners dating black men is a whole 'nother subject. Child, don't get me started on that!
(It's one thing if they HAPPEN to meet, like, fall in love with a black man. But it seems like it's just the "thing to do" with them. I bet Kris said to herself, "Now that I'm divorced, I'm going to get me one of those black men too!")


----------



## ByeKitty

dooneybaby said:


> The Kardashians/Jenners dating black men is a whole 'nother subject. Child, don't get me started on that!
> (It's one thing if they HAPPEN to meet, like, fall in love with a black man. But it seems like it's just the "thing to do" with them. I bet Kris said to herself, "Now that I'm divorced, I'm going to get me one of those black men too!")



I've joked about this too, but wouldn't it be possible that that's simply what they're attracted to? At least for Kim and Khloe because we all know Kris' relationship with purse karrier Corey isn't real.


----------



## Jayne1

chowlover2 said:


> In a way all of this makes me sad for regular people who are transgendered. So many can't find or hold down jobs, can't afford all the surgery or the makeup and glam squad Caitlin has. I am glad she can live as her authentic self, but I am sick of all the gushing.
> 
> And you know what else I find strange? How she had never met another transgender until 2 months ago. If you were dealing with this, wouldn't you do as much research as possible and talk to as many transgender people that you could? If anonymity was required, I am sure there are forums where you can speak freely with others. So much of it is strange, and I am not transphobic in the least.
> 
> I am still waiting for her to open her wallet and let money start helping other transgendered individuals. Particularly youth and people who cannot afford the luxuries she has had as a wealthy, white man. Otherwise, she is as much a fameho as the K's. An authentic life is not pap walks and photo shoots.



I've been saying this for the longest time, but you said it better.


----------



## Eva1991

chowlover2 said:


> *In a way all of this makes me sad for regular people who are transgendered. So many can't find or hold down jobs, can't afford all the surgery or the makeup and glam squad Caitlin has. I am glad she can live as her authentic self, but I am sick of all the gushing.
> *
> And you know what else I find strange? How she had never met another transgender until 2 months ago. If you were dealing with this, wouldn't you do as much research as possible and talk to as many transgender people that you could? If anonymity was required, I am sure there are forums where you can speak freely with others. So much of it is strange, and I am not transphobic in the least.
> 
> I am still waiting for her to open her wallet and let money start helping other transgendered individuals. Particularly youth and people who cannot afford the luxuries she has had as a wealthy, white man. Otherwise, she is as much a fameho as the K's. An authentic life is not pap walks and photo shoots.



You're right but this applies on so many things in life. There are people out there with serious health issues who try to get access to a cure that's covered by their health insurance while rich people with the same problems don't have to worry about money and can get their hands on the best cure. Having money makes things easier but rich people are not to blame for it.

I agree with your last sentence though. Caitlyn has all the resources required to raise awareness of gender dysphoria and to help transgender people in many ways. I hope she does it.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

bisousx said:


> Agree. Although I am happy for Caitlyn as an individual, I would be _devastated_ if my dad turned out to be anything other than the person I know him as. If my brother or sister came out, I don't think I'd blink




Agreed with everything. I said this the other day. I just couldn't imagine how I would feel/react if my dad had done this transition. My dad and I have shared and continue to share some long deep thought provoking daddy-daughter conversations. It would be BEYOND devastating to me if he had kept that away from me all of this time! We share sometimes too much with each other probably. A man I've known all my life is now a female whom I can still call dad but now is a woman and hasn't changed body parts but could still make a baby with a woman? Unimaginable. Even at my age now I'd act out some way.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I agree with every single one of y'all.


----------



## Cocolicious

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree with every single one of y'all.



This OT: Haha! You use the best pics for your picture.


----------



## chowlover2

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Agreed with everything. I said this the other day. I just couldn't imagine how I would feel/react if my dad had done this transition. My dad and I have shared and continue to share some long deep thought provoking daddy-daughter conversations. It would be BEYOND devastating to me if he had kept that away from me all of this time! We share sometimes too much with each other probably. A man I've known all my life is now a female whom I can still call dad but now is a woman and hasn't changed body parts but could still make a baby with a woman? Unimaginable. Even at my age now I'd act out some way.




Agreed!

My cousin, after 2 marriages and 3 children came out as a gay man at 60. It completely severed his relationship with his 2 younger children ( who were college age ) and second wife. It's been 5 yrs and he has moved on with his life and is now living with another man. His previous wife and 2 kids no longer have anything to do with him. Very, very sad. Lots of therapy. And Caitlin's situation is even crazier. No wonder Kylie is acting out. And what's worse is no one (  Caitlin or Kris ) are paying any attention to her. 

I would have much greater respect for the whole family if they took a break from the spotlight and worked on their mental health. No matter how well grounded you are, this has to be a huge shock. Instead we have Caitlin competing with the K's doing pap walks, Kris trying to hold on to her youth by jetting off with a younger man, and poor Kylie screaming for attention and no one listening. I am so glad my family loved me!


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree with every single one of y'all.



Lol~~


----------



## sdkitty

chowlover2 said:


> Agreed!
> 
> My cousin, after 2 marriages and 3 children came out as a gay man at 60. It completely severed his relationship with his 2 younger children ( who were college age ) and second wife. It's been 5 yrs and he has moved on with his life and is now living with another man. His previous wife and 2 kids no longer have anything to do with him. Very, very sad. Lots of therapy. And Caitlin's situation is even crazier. No wonder Kylie is acting out. And what's worse is no one (  Caitlin or Kris ) are paying any attention to her.
> 
> I would have much greater respect for the whole family if they took a break from the spotlight and worked on their mental health. No matter how well grounded you are, this has to be a huge shock. Instead we have Caitlin competing with the K's doing pap walks, Kris trying to hold on to her youth by jetting off with a younger man, and poor Kylie screaming for attention and no one listening. I am so glad my family loved me!


that won't happen until the public loses interest in these people
they're so hooked on the fame and money
I don't watch them on TV but from what I see on this board, I'd say I sympathize with the two youngest on Bruce's gender change.  They didn't look particularly comfortable to me at the espy awards and I don't blame them.
And I sympathize with the brother.  Mom apparently doesn't think he's marketable so he's left out in the cold.  Hope he finds something of his own to succeed at.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

chowlover2 said:


> Agreed!
> 
> My cousin, after 2 marriages and 3 children came out as a gay man at 60. It completely severed his relationship with his 2 younger children ( who were college age ) and second wife. It's been 5 yrs and he has moved on with his life and is now living with another man. His previous wife and 2 kids no longer have anything to do with him. Very, very sad. Lots of therapy. And Caitlin's situation is even crazier. No wonder Kylie is acting out. And what's worse is no one (  Caitlin or Kris ) are paying any attention to her.
> 
> I would have much greater respect for the whole family if they took a break from the spotlight and worked on their mental health. No matter how well grounded you are, this has to be a huge shock. Instead we have Caitlin competing with the K's doing pap walks, Kris trying to hold on to her youth by jetting off with a younger man, and poor Kylie screaming for attention and no one listening. I am so glad my family loved me!


I'm sure that's very hard for your cousin to have to deal with. Its either live your untruth and please your family or live your real truth and please yourself. How do you make THAT decision?! Yikes! 


I agree with the taking time off. I know the K's and J's are hooked on this lifestyle but this is such a SERIOUS thing for the family to deal with. The crazy thing is Caitlyn is receiving a lot of backlash but can you imagine what evil people are saying to the youngest ones? Yes, Caitlyn can handle it but I'm sure they can't or are still learning. There has to be some anger somewhere AND having to deal with this in the public eye? Ugh! While I'm not a fan of them it still was so sad to watch Kylie crying as Caitlyn was speaking and they did not look like tears of joy. She's hurting because of this. 



sdkitty said:


> that won't happen until the public loses interest in these people
> they're so hooked on the fame and money
> I don't watch them on TV but from what I see on this board, I'd say I sympathize with the two youngest on Bruce's gender change.  They didn't look particularly comfortable to me at the espy awards and I don't blame them.
> And I sympathize with the brother.  Mom apparently doesn't think he's marketable so he's left out in the cold.  Hope he finds something of his own to succeed at.




They'd never leave even when the public loses interest. You see the "has beens" try to make come backs all the time and will do anything to stay relevant.


----------



## guccimamma

i don't know what i would do if my father started wearing a dress. he's just a couple years older, and it would make me crazy.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bisousx said:


> Agree. Although I am happy for Caitlyn as an individual, I would be _devastated_ if my dad turned out to be anything other than the person I know him as. If my brother or sister came out, I don't think I'd blink





chowlover2 said:


> I agree! Kathy Lee Gifford was on Watch What Happens Live the other night. Andy asked her if she ever had any idea as she has known him 33 yrs. she said she was stunned. Also Kris felt their time together was a lie, so maybe that's why she has been so quiet.   Anyway, I do hope Kendall & Kylie are getting professional help. I think I would need it if I were in their shoes.
> 
> You know what surprises me, in the Diane Sawyer interview Caitlyn said Bruce went out dressed as a woman, and no one knew. I'm sorry, even with the surgery I can tell she is Bruce. No offense to him, there are some gorgeous transgender women out there. I think it helps if you change earlier in life. She is either fooling herself or surrounded by a bunch of yes people as all the K's are.





Jayne1 said:


> That'w what I was thinking.  She's very tall, just that calls attention.  Unless she was dressed in a cape, hiding her face, or something.





chowlover2 said:


> In a way all of this makes me sad for regular people who are transgendered. So many can't find or hold down jobs, can't afford all the surgery or the makeup and glam squad Caitlin has. I am glad she can live as her authentic self, but I am sick of all the gushing.
> 
> And you know what else I find strange? How she had never met another transgender until 2 months ago. If you were dealing with this, wouldn't you do as much research as possible and talk to as many transgender people that you could? If anonymity was required, I am sure there are forums where you can speak freely with others. So much of it is strange, and I am not transphobic in the least.
> 
> I am still waiting for her to open her wallet and let money start helping other transgendered individuals. Particularly youth and people who cannot afford the luxuries she has had as a wealthy, white man. Otherwise, she is as much a fameho as the K's. An authentic life is not pap walks and photo shoots.





V0N1B2 said:


> I love you chow
> I keep waiting to see Caitlyn being papped walking into the LA LGBT Centre.
> I'm waiting to hear about her mentoring transgendered youth, delivering meals to elderly TG shut-ins who came out long before anyone ever heard of Bruce Jenner, enjoying the summer concert series with new friends, anything to show some kind of solidarity with her new "community".  Instead, we get pap walks to dinner at Nobu, watching the pride parade from a window, partying at a gay bar, and a day at the races with big floppy hats.
> 
> I'm hopeful that her show will feature her doing something.....
> meaningful.





Cocolicious said:


> This OT: Haha! You use the best pics for your picture.



Thanks!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Hobbsy said:


> Lol~~



H*ll has officially frozen over.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> H*ll has officially frozen over.



Thank God! I can't keep up with my menopause,  I'm ready for some cold air!!!! &#128521;


----------



## MrsTeacherMrCop

I think the real question here is where is the hot bodyguard??


----------



## Coach Lover Too

MrsTeacherMrCop said:


> I think the real question here is where is the hot bodyguard??



Good question!


----------



## pukasonqo

MrsTeacherMrCop said:


> I think the real question here is where is the hot bodyguard??




was there a hot body guard???? blinked and missed it!
as many, i would really like to see caitlyn getting involved in organisations that help the LGTB community, only time will tell...


----------



## chowlover2

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I'm sure that's very hard for your cousin to have to deal with. Its either live your untruth and please your family or live your real truth and please yourself. How do you make THAT decision?! Yikes!
> 
> 
> I agree with the taking time off. I know the K's and J's are hooked on this lifestyle but this is such a SERIOUS thing for the family to deal with. The crazy thing is Caitlyn is receiving a lot of backlash but can you imagine what evil people are saying to the youngest ones? Yes, Caitlyn can handle it but I'm sure they can't or are still learning. There has to be some anger somewhere AND having to deal with this in the public eye? Ugh! While I'm not a fan of them it still was so sad to watch Kylie crying as Caitlyn was speaking and they did not look like tears of joy. She's hurting because of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They'd never leave even when the public loses interest. You see the "has beens" try to make come backs all the time and will do anything to stay relevant.




I think the worst part is when the person wants to live in their truth, they want it ASAP. Little or no transition time. With my cousin, his Mom passed, he fly out to AZ to clean her condo out, and found she was a hoarder. Condo stocked floor to ceiling with junk. So that was where he had his epiphany. Came home, told wife and kids and that was that. It seemed like it happened quickly with Caitlin too. No idea what her epiphany was. Honestly, it's like a sudden death, the person you thought you knew is no longer there. Very, very rough on the families. 

And it's sad this family is so addicted to fame. At least my family went and received professional help.


----------



## Hobbsy

chowlover2 said:


> I think the worst part is when the person wants to live in their truth, they want it ASAP. Little or no transition time. With my cousin, his Mom passed, he fly out to AZ to clean her condo out, and found she was a hoarder. Condo stocked floor to ceiling with junk. So that was where he had his epiphany. Came home, told wife and kids and that was that. It seemed like it happened quickly with Caitlin too. No idea what her epiphany was. Honestly, it's like a sudden death, the person you thought you knew is no longer there. Very, very rough on the families.
> 
> And it's sad this family is so addicted to fame. At least my family went and received professional help.




Exactly.  I cannot imagine not needing/wanting/getting professional help with something so life changing!!!


----------



## MrsTeacherMrCop

Can't get the image of the body guard to post [emoji24]


----------



## pukasonqo

MrsTeacherMrCop said:


> Can't get the image of the body guard to post [emoji24]




noooooooo!!


----------



## Sasha2012

They are high-profile celebrities and passionate advocates for the LGBT community.

So it's only natural that Caitlyn Jenner and Laverne Cox would bond over their shared desire to spread awareness of the transgender cause.

The ladies got together with pals for a special screening of Caitlyn's docu-series I Am Cait on Sunday and posed for a snap together, cementing their new friendship.

Laverne, star of Orange Is The New Black captioned the image: '@caitlynjenner and I finally met in person at a special private advance screening of #IAmCait. #TransIsBeautiful #girlslikeus

The statuesque beauty wore a black cropped top and patterned mini skirt for the event while 65-year-old Caitlyn opted for a semi-casual ensemble.

Teaming a white top with sheer trim with some pale blue jeans, the former Olympian looked relaxed as she posed alongside the actress and six other women. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ght-special-screening-Cait.html#ixzz3gTf6eL8y


----------



## Hobbsy

Sasha2012 said:


> They are high-profile celebrities and passionate advocates for the LGBT community.
> 
> So it's only natural that Caitlyn Jenner and Laverne Cox would bond over their shared desire to spread awareness of the transgender cause.
> 
> The ladies got together with pals for a special screening of Caitlyn's docu-series I Am Cait on Sunday and posed for a snap together, cementing their new friendship.
> 
> Laverne, star of Orange Is The New Black captioned the image: '@caitlynjenner and I finally met in person at a special private advance screening of #IAmCait. #TransIsBeautiful #girlslikeus
> 
> The statuesque beauty wore a black cropped top and patterned mini skirt for the event while 65-year-old Caitlyn opted for a semi-casual ensemble.
> 
> Teaming a white top with sheer trim with some pale blue jeans, the former Olympian looked relaxed as she posed alongside the actress and six other women.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ght-special-screening-Cait.html#ixzz3gTf6eL8y



I like what Caitlyn wore. I also think the middle picture, especially,  is a good one.


----------



## Jayne1

I saw a few minutes of that E Bruce special -- they re-ran it as a lead up to the Cait show this week.

Anyway, Bruce is sitting there, answering questions from the Ks and one asked how will they know when to call her a female and Bruce said, "Oh, you'll know!"

In hind site, we can see he had it all planned out&#8230; the Vanity Fair cover, the skimpy outfits, the media blitz, the hero award. Probably had already written his speech.

I didn't mind the episode the first time, but in re-watching a bit, I found him annoying&#8230; he was extremely vague, even though he kept telling the Ks, "ask me anything" he was still unbelievably secretive.  I mean, he kept saying, "No more secrets!" yet he was so cryptic and tight-lipped with them, and us, the viewers.


(I'm saying "Bruce" because I'm talking about the before.)


----------



## FreeSpirit71

It's actually refreshing to see her dressed in something a bit less flashy.


----------



## Freckles1

guccimamma said:


> i don't know what i would do if my father started wearing a dress. he's just a couple years older, and it would make me crazy.




I think I would either laugh or cry to death...
It would be terrible


----------



## ByeKitty

I can't imagine it being that big of a deal for me if one of my parents wanted a sex change....until it actually happened probably. Either way, I can't really picture my dad as a woman, he's quite masculine, moreso than Bruce was I'd say. But still, he'd be the same person, but more free perhaps. That's how Caitlyn comes across - she's still Bruce, but the packaging is a little different. I'd much prefer a transgender parent to a disabled parent who is hurting (that's my dear mom), but that's obviously my personal experience speaking.


----------



## Hobbsy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> It's actually refreshing to see her dressed in something a bit less flashy.



I agree!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Here ya go. The one on the left is Caityln's bodyguard. The one on the right is Kim's.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Here ya go. The one on the left is Caityln's bodyguard. The one on the right is Kim's.



Caitlyn wins this...hands down!!!


----------



## Sarni

Hobbsy said:


> Caitlyn wins this...hands down!!!




Yup...he looks like Kevin Costner!


----------



## Hobbsy

Sarni said:


> Yup...he looks like Kevin Costner!



Yes! &#128525;&#128525;


----------



## ByeKitty

He also ironed his shirt! And he has better sunglasses!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Hobbsy said:


> I like what Caitlyn wore. I also think the middle picture, especially,  is a good one.



I agree. Much better look than those short, low cut dresses.
The girl in the bottom pic reminds me a little bit of Tatum O'Neal.


----------



## MrsTeacherMrCop

Coach Lover Too said:


> Here ya go. The one on the left is Caityln's bodyguard. The one on the right is Kim's.




Thank you Coach!! [emoji7]I'll take Caitlyn's please...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

MrsTeacherMrCop said:


> Thank you Coach!! [emoji7]I'll take Caitlyn's please...



The line begins to the left (behind me).


----------



## ChanelMommy

And the reason he needs a bodyguard is...?


----------



## blackkitty4378

ChanelMommy said:


> And the reason he needs a bodyguard is...?



Probably as an extra eye out and extra protection from the crazies and zealots that could possibly try to harm her now that she's transgender.


----------



## pukasonqo

Hobbsy said:


> Caitlyn wins this...hands down!!!




how do i get caitlyn's BG???


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> Here ya go. The one on the left is Caityln's bodyguard. The one on the right is Kim's.




[emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]. If I were a celebrity I'd get a hot BG as well, or maybe two. Eye candies, anyone? I also think Rihanna's BG is hot, the one pictured with her when she went out in her PJs.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sasha2012 said:


> They are high-profile celebrities and passionate advocates for the LGBT community.
> 
> 
> 
> So it's only natural that Caitlyn Jenner and Laverne Cox would bond over their shared desire to spread awareness of the transgender cause.
> 
> 
> 
> The ladies got together with pals for a special screening of Caitlyn's docu-series I Am Cait on Sunday and posed for a snap together, cementing their new friendship.
> 
> 
> 
> Laverne, star of Orange Is The New Black captioned the image: '@caitlynjenner and I finally met in person at a special private advance screening of #IAmCait. #TransIsBeautiful #girlslikeus
> 
> 
> 
> The statuesque beauty wore a black cropped top and patterned mini skirt for the event while 65-year-old Caitlyn opted for a semi-casual ensemble.
> 
> 
> 
> Teaming a white top with sheer trim with some pale blue jeans, the former Olympian looked relaxed as she posed alongside the actress and six other women.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ght-special-screening-Cait.html#ixzz3gTf6eL8y




Laverne Cox is one beautiful woman!


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

ByeKitty said:


> I can't imagine it being that big of a deal for me if one of my parents wanted a sex change....until it actually happened probably. Either way, I can't really picture my dad as a woman, he's quite masculine, moreso than Bruce was I'd say. But still, he'd be the same person, but more free perhaps. That's how Caitlyn comes across - she's still Bruce, but the packaging is a little different. I'd much prefer a transgender parent to a disabled parent who is hurting (that's my dear mom), but that's obviously my personal experience speaking.



All of this. 

And hugs to you, sweetie. Good thoughts and hugs to your mom too


----------



## ByeKitty

Babydoll Chanel said:


> All of this.
> 
> And hugs to you, sweetie. Good thoughts and hugs to your mom too



Aww thank you


----------



## guccimamma

ChanelMommy said:


> And the reason he needs a bodyguard is...?



to keep kris at a distance.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

dangerouscurves said:


> [emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]. If I were a celebrity I'd get a hot BG as well, or maybe two. Eye candies, anyone? I also think Rihanna's BG is hot, the one pictured with her when she went out in her PJs.



Jennifer Lawrence has hot ones too lol


----------



## uhpharm01

Freckles1 said:


> I think I would either laugh or cry to death...
> It would be terrible


Deleted post


----------



## Jayne1

So much like a K&#8230; never any different.  Where do you drive a thing like this?



> Caitlyn Jenner has something sexy, new and Italian to flaunt ... her custom made exotic sports car.
> 
> *Caitlyn had her tricked out Lambo Aventador delivered by flatbed truck to her Malibu home early Tuesday.* It's a pretty Kardashian-esque purchase -- remember, Kanye's got one of his own. Base price is $400k, so you can bet this bad boy ran her* more like half a mil.*




http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/21/caitlyn-jenner-lambo-new-car-photo/


----------



## lp640

She's such a Kardashian.  Ugh.


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> So much like a K never any different.  Where do you drive a thing like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/21/caitlyn-jenner-lambo-new-car-photo/




So much for donating $$$ to LGBT issues...


----------



## bisousx

chowlover2 said:


> So much for donating $$$ to LGBT issues...



Sigh... that was my first thought too.

Like, give her some time to adjust... but no....


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

chowlover2 said:


> So much for donating $$$ to LGBT issues...





bisousx said:


> Sigh... that was my first thought too.
> 
> Like, give her some time to adjust... but no....



My thoughts too. I mean, she's not obligated to donate, it's her money and she can do what she wants with it. HOWEVER, she kept going on about helping other transgender people, wanting to raise awareness etc that she keeps off like a huge hypocrite. In other words, just like a regular Kardashian.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> So much like a K never any different.  Where do you drive a thing like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/21/caitlyn-jenner-lambo-new-car-photo/




People with these cars like to
Annoy the rest of us by driving a few blocks up and down Ventura Blvd, and, even more annoyingly, Rodeo Drive. Makes way too much noise & they love to scan around to see who is looking at them. The tourist love it, but, Um, yeah. [emoji57]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

So much for flying under the radar.
I hope Jenner doesn't get killed in that thing. (and yes, I'm serious about that even if I don't like Bruce or Caitlyn.)


----------



## lanasyogamama

Ugh.  Obnoxious.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> People with these cars like to
> Annoy the rest of us by driving a few blocks up and down Ventura Blvd, and, even more annoyingly, Rodeo Drive. Makes way too much noise & they love to scan around to see who is looking at them. The tourist love it, but, Um, yeah. [emoji57]



It's such a waste. City driving is stop and go and highway driving has a speed limit. So what is it for? Attention getting, as you said. That's a huge waste of half a million dollars.


----------



## ByeKitty

Yeah, IDK. Bruce always liked flashy cars, and I'm all for hobbies, but half a million!!! What a crazy amount. Can't help but think of the good you could do with that. These people have no concept of the value of money.


----------



## Sassys

People in LA rent cars like this for a day or two all the time. My friend's aunt has rentals come to the house all the time. She rents them for a day or two. 

Doesn't mean she bought it.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> It's such a waste. City driving is stop and go and highway driving has a speed limit. So what is it for? Attention getting, as you said. That's a huge waste of half a million dollars.




Yeah, city driving with these beasts is a chore. Especially in LA traffic. I guess some people like collecting cars? Bruce seems to have a thing for cars bc we would always see him around town, Starbucks runs and such, in different cars. Some were really exotic and my husband would get all excited about them. Lol, I dunno.


----------



## Florasun

Jayne1 said:


> I saw a few minutes of that E Bruce special -- they re-ran it as a lead up to the Cait show this week.
> 
> Anyway, Bruce is sitting there, answering questions from the Ks and one asked how will they know when to call her a female and Bruce said, "Oh, you'll know!"
> 
> In hind site, we can see he had it all planned out the Vanity Fair cover, the skimpy outfits, the media blitz, the hero award. Probably had already written his speech.
> 
> I didn't mind the episode the first time, but in re-watching a bit, I found him annoying he was extremely vague, *even though he kept telling the Ks, "ask me anything" he was still unbelievably secretive.  I mean, he kept saying, "No more secrets!" yet he was so cryptic and tight-lipped with them, and us, the viewers.*
> 
> 
> (I'm saying "Bruce" because I'm talking about the before.)



That's what I thought, too! But you have articulated it much better than I.


----------



## Florasun

bisousx said:


> I think people are getting upset because it sounds like their experiences with discrimination are being compared with others' experiences. And if you look at it that way, you can't compare two people's experiences, nor can you lump everyone with the same race or orientation into one group either.
> 
> But that's not what some of us are trying to compare here.
> 
> As a minority, I haven't experienced extreme racism other than being called slurs once in awhile, visiting certain parts of the country. On the other hand, when I was in h.s. I watched my friend get pushed down the stairs by a group of boys for no other reason than what she looked like. I can't speak for her experience, nor can she speak for mine. But I can tell you that the _reason behind why we were treated that way_ *comes from the same damn place.*



yes, an a$$hole!
Seriously - why do people feel the need to act that way?


----------



## Encore Hermes

The car being delivered might be for filming the show. But I had the same thought, ugh, and if this is supposedly a docu-series they are emphasizing an OTT live style


----------



## Jayne1

True -- she's still filming.  But how does this, "Do some good" other than to brag, like a good K would do.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Caitlyn is doing exactly what a lot were saying she was going to do. This is her time to shine and she's going to take FULL advantage of it. She's been patiently sitting back watching the K's get all of the attention and learning what not to do lol


----------



## Grace123

Coach Lover Too said:


> So much for flying under the radar.
> *I hope Jenner doesn't get killed in that thing.* (and yes, I'm serious about that even if I don't like Bruce or Caitlyn.)



Or worse, kill someone else again.


----------



## AshTx.1

I am reaching here, but do you guys think that maybe Caitlyn has donated to causes for LGBT under the radar? I know that when I donate,  I definitely don't tell anyone or make a big show out of it...


----------



## pukasonqo

does she still has a valid licence? i thought it might have been suspended pending her trial for the crash that killed a woman
a bit insensitive having a new, expensive car delivered while the case goes on...
on the other hand, she was obviously taking notes from PMK


----------



## Cocolicious

I wonder if Caitlyn still likes helicopters? When she was a he ...he obsessed over them.


----------



## Jayne1

AshTx.1 said:


> I am reaching here, but do you guys think that maybe Caitlyn has donated to causes for LGBT under the radar? I know that when I donate,  I definitely don't tell anyone or make a big show out of it...



She'd have the paps following, to show her good deed.  Maybe we'll see her handing over a cheque on her reality show?


----------



## lanasyogamama

Even if the car is leased, the timing is kind of poor.


----------



## Sassys

lanasyogamama said:


> Even if the car is leased, the timing is kind of poor.


 
Why? It's her money, she can do what she wants with it.


----------



## lanasyogamama

Sassys said:


> Why? It's her money, she can do what she wants with it.



Of course she can, but I think it furthers what people are saying, that she's turning into another K with the pap strolls and conspicuous consumption, not the "I want to do some good" message she said earlier.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Getting the links

Caitlyn Jenner is avoiding questions about her fatal car accident and should be forced to sit for a deposition, the stepchildren of victim Kim Howe claim in a new court filing.

*Lawyers for the step kids have filed a motion to compel testimony, claiming Jenner was a no-show at a June 25 deposition and has refused to provide alternate dates.*

"Contrary to Ms. Jenner's claim that she is cooperating, she failed to show for her deposition, and she has taken the 5th Amendment to avoid answering even the most basic written discovery we have served," lawyer Jeffrey Wolf said in a statement to the Daily News on Tuesday.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Can't edit post above

Ms. Jenner should start cooperating with any and all efforts to further investigate this crash that took Ms. Howe's life," Wolf said.

Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.
Bruce Jenner involved in fatal four-vehicle crash
Jenner's lawyers previously objected to June deposition dates saying they needed more time and arguing that Howe's stepkids lacked standing to even bring the lawsuit.


Stepdaughter Dana Redmond and stepson William Howe filed their lawsuit in May claiming Jenner was "careless, negligent and/or otherwise responsible" for causing their stepmom's death.

Jenner - who had yet to publicly transition from Bruce to Caitlyn at the time of the Feb. 7 crash - was driving a Cadillac Escalade on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu when she rear-ended Howe in a manner that pushed the Calabasas widow into the path of an oncoming Hummer.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...dent-questions-court-filing-article-1.2299984


----------



## Jayne1

lanasyogamama said:


> Of course she can, but I think it furthers what people are saying, that she's turning into another K with the pap strolls and conspicuous consumption, not the "I want to do some good" message she said earlier.



I always had the feeling that Bruce was so self absorbed, he never really could feel for others. I know he loved his girls with Kris, but he still seemed a bit indifferent.

I then chalked it up to his having this traumatic situation that we didn't know about,  and it consumed him.

It's still new and exciting, what she's going through, but I'm starting to think Cait has always been and will always be a bit thoughtless and preoccupied with her own interests.


----------



## lovemysavior

We visit Malibu throughout the year and my hubby and sons get all excited at the site of these exotic cars. We've even gone to the shop where they sell them there in Calabasas.  I'm not gonna lie, they're pretty cool to look at. They are very loud though and do get tons of attention so I could see that being annoying to LA locals. We don't live near LA and don't drive an exotic car so it's pretty fascinating to see them up close. We drive what my hubby calls, a simple, Yukon-gini....lol....


----------



## afcgirl

Jayne1 said:


> I always had the feeling that Bruce was so self absorbed, he never really could feel for others. I know he loved his girls with Kris, but he still seemed a bit indifferent. QUOTE]
> 
> True, I feel like the only ones he even slightly cares about are Kendall and Kylie.  To me it seems like he fakes it with his step kids/other kids, especially Khloe who is/was desperate for his attention.  I thought his true colors accidentally came out when he said on the special that the only persons' feelings he really cared about were Kendall's and Kylie's.  I really felt bad for Khloe when he said that.


----------



## Sassys

lanasyogamama said:


> Of course she can, but I think it furthers what people are saying, that she's turning into another K with the pap strolls and conspicuous consumption, not the "I want to do some good" message she said earlier.


 
Hopefully, she will do what she said. The pap strolls might just be for the purpose of the show (keeping her on your mind, so you will watch the show). Hopefully, once the show is done for the season (if its successful), she won't be so much in our face.

I will let her slide for now, because she was so unhappy for so long and now is her time for a little happiness/fun.


----------



## Jayne1

lovemysavior said:


> We visit Malibu throughout the year and my hubby and sons get all excited at the site of these exotic cars. We've even gone to the shop where they sell them there in Calabasas.  I'm not gonna lie, they're pretty cool to look at. They are very loud though and do get tons of attention so I could see that being annoying to LA locals. We don't live near LA and don't drive an exotic car so it's pretty fascinating to see them up close. We drive what my hubby calls, a simple, Yukon-gini....lol....



It just seems so pointless to get an expensive, super fast sport car and drive it in stop and go city traffic, or stay within the speed limit on the highway.

You have to be really desperate for people to look at you if you want a car that you can't drive the way it should be driven.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

afcgirl said:


> Jayne1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always had the feeling that Bruce was so self absorbed, he never really could feel for others. I know he loved his girls with Kris, but he still seemed a bit indifferent. QUOTE]
> 
> True, I feel like the only ones he even slightly cares about are Kendall and Kylie.  To me it seems like he fakes it with his step kids/other kids, especially Khloe who is/was desperate for his attention.  I thought his true colors accidentally came out when he said on the special that the only persons' feelings he really cared about were Kendall's and Kylie's. * I really felt bad for Khloe when he said that.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me too. Same thing when Kris admitted on the show one time that Kim is her favorite. Not that anyone needed to be told that, it's so obvious.
Click to expand...


----------



## dangerouscurves

ByeKitty said:


> Yeah, IDK. Bruce always liked flashy cars, and I'm all for hobbies, but half a million!!! What a crazy amount. Can't help but think of the good you could do with that. These people have no concept of the value of money.




Well it's her money. We wouldn't like it when people say, 'with that money you buy your handbag for, you could feed a village in a 3rd world country'. But I do also get what you're saying, but then maybe she likes her donation to the LGBT organizations go incognito.


----------



## ByeKitty

dangerouscurves said:


> Well it's her money. We wouldn't like it when people say, 'with that money you buy your handbag for, you could feed a village in a 3rd world country'. But I do also get what you're saying, but then maybe she likes her donation to the LGBT organizations go incognito.



Yeah, all I do is SMH, but of course it's her money and her right to buy the flashy cars. I just don't get it. I don't think it's fair to use this car as a confirmation that she's obviously not concerned with LGBT issues. What does it proof, really? All it proves is that she likes expensive cars.


----------



## labelwhore04

Bruce was never smart with his money so it makes sense that Cailtyn isn't either. She'll probably be broke soon if she keeps spending money like that.


----------



## Bentley1

She has enough money to both donate and buy her new luxury home and toys. 
She easily can do both, she's just choosing not to.


----------



## ByeKitty

Bentley1 said:


> She has enough money to both donate and buy her new luxury home and toys.
> She easily can do both, she's just choosing not to.



How do you know this?


----------



## Jayne1

afcgirl said:


> True, I feel like the only ones he even slightly cares about are Kendall and Kylie.  To me it seems like he fakes it with his step kids/other kids, especially Khloe who is/was desperate for his attention.  I thought his true colors accidentally came out when he said on the special that the only persons' feelings he really cared about were Kendall's and Kylie's.  I really felt bad for Khloe when he said that.



Actually, I can understand his devotion to the two young ones.  They are biologically his, he raised them, they love him and their attitude towards him shows this.

The Ks came along later in their lives, were rude to him for years, by their own admission, and were kinda mean to him too. They never wanted to include him, but the show came along and they started filming together.&#8230; so if his priorities were with the two youngest, it makes sense.

Having said that, I found that as much as he loves the two youngest, he always had a slight self absorbed, thoughtless attitude towards them too.

(Talking about Bruce so past tense.)


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> She has enough money to both donate and buy her new luxury home and toys.
> She easily can do both, she's just choosing not to.





ByeKitty said:


> How do you know this?



I guess all her money could have gone into the multi-million dollar Malibu home and the expensive cars and plastic surgery and therefore she has none left over to donate.  That could be the case.


----------



## Bentley1

ByeKitty said:


> How do you know this?




Know what? That she can donate money? ANYONE can donate money, even someone making minimum wage. She could donate if she wanted to. 

If you're asking whether or not I know she's donating money, my hunch would be she would make her donation(s) very public as she's proven to be that type of person.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> Know what? That she can donate money? ANYONE can donate money, even someone making minimum wage. She could donate if she wanted to.
> 
> If you're asking whether or not I know she's donating money, my hunch would be she would make her donation(s) very public as she's proven to be that type of person.



Maybe we'll see it on the show except don't the Ks pretend to have garage sales, all for the show, and who knows what gets donated so never-mind


----------



## Cocolicious

Why does Caitlyn need to donate to anyone or any organization? Broke or rich I don't think anyone should tell others where they should put their money.


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> Actually, I can understand his devotion to the two young ones.  They are biologically his, he raised them, they love him and their attitude towards him shows this.
> 
> The Ks came along later in their lives, were rude to him for years, by their own admission, and were kinda mean to him too. They never wanted to include him, but the show came along and they started filming together. so if his priorities were with the two youngest, it makes sense.
> 
> Having said that, I found that as much as he loves the two youngest, he always had a slight self absorbed, thoughtless attitude towards them too.
> 
> (Talking about Bruce so past tense.)




Interesting point.

I thought he meant that Kendall and Kylie were so young, that's why he was concerned more for them than anyone else. Not that it wouldn't be just as upsetting at any age.


----------



## Luvbolide

Encore Hermes said:


> Can't edit post above
> 
> Ms. Jenner should start cooperating with any and all efforts to further investigate this crash that took Ms. Howe's life," Wolf said.
> 
> Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.Bruce Jenner car accident on Pacific Coast Highway.
> Bruce Jenner involved in fatal four-vehicle crash
> Jenner's lawyers previously objected to June deposition dates saying they needed more time and arguing that Howe's stepkids lacked standing to even bring the lawsuit.
> 
> 
> Stepdaughter Dana Redmond and stepson William Howe filed their lawsuit in May claiming Jenner was "careless, negligent and/or otherwise responsible" for causing their stepmom's death.
> 
> Jenner - who had yet to publicly transition from Bruce to Caitlyn at the time of the Feb. 7 crash - was driving a Cadillac Escalade on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu when she rear-ended Howe in a manner that pushed the Calabasas widow into the path of an oncoming Hummer.
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...dent-questions-court-filing-article-1.2299984







Thanks for posting this info.  I hadn't realized that Jenner is refusing to show up for her deposition - she's not ready?!?  What a ridiculous excuse.  Would love to see Ms. howe's step-kids haul Jenner into court to explain this BS.  She and her lawyers are both idiots...


----------



## Jayne1

bisousx said:


> Interesting point.
> 
> I thought he meant that Kendall and Kylie were so young, that's why he was concerned more for them than anyone else. Not that it wouldn't be just as upsetting at any age.



I think he did mean that but I responding to a poster who said she felt bad for Khloe because of Cait's major concern for the two youngest.  Khloe, who was so rude to Bruce for so many years I think it was nice of him to forgive and forget.


----------



## ByeKitty

Bentley1 said:


> Know what? That she can donate money? ANYONE can donate money, even someone making minimum wage. She could donate if she wanted to.
> 
> If you're asking whether or not I know she's donating money, my hunch would be she would make her donation(s) very public as she's proven to be that type of person.



I meant the latter. You could very well be right, but the fact that we have never heard of any charity donations could mean two things: either she never donates any money, or she has donated to charity in private.

I also stand by a point I made earlier in this thread, that she is not obliged to donate money or to be some inspiring LGBT rights leader. Whether she wants to be an activist, a recluse or a Kardashian, that's entirely up to her. She has already done the LGBT community a great service by raising awareness, by being so public.


----------



## Luvbolide

Cocolicious said:


> Why does Caitlyn need to donate to anyone or any organization? Broke or rich I don't think anyone should tell others where they should put their money.





Normally I would agree with you, but I find it so disingenuous for her to bill herself as an LGBT activist and to talk about how she wants to help youth who are struggling with issues and prejudices.  Instead, all we see is her partying and dressing up in various outfits.  Having a group of transgender women to your Malibu estate for lunch - complete with photo crews is not the same thing as going incognito to a youth shelter/center for LGBT kids.  

With Cait is has been nothing but me,me, me - look at me and my boobs -take pix of me.  I may not be keeping up, but I can't recall hearing of anything she has done to help or inspire others yet.  IMO, all the narcissism would maybe be a bit easier to take if maybe she made a donation.  But no, it is a half million dollar car that can't realistically be driven in Calif.  but hey, more pix!!

I really don't like this person...


----------



## Jayne1

Cocolicious said:


> Why does Caitlyn need to donate to anyone or any organization? Broke or rich I don't think anyone should tell others where they should put their money.



Not that she has to, as you said, but how else can she "do some good?"

Donate a few hours a week at a shelter?  Okay, excellent idea.  Foster some trans kids? Great. Write a book&#8230; that's probably coming.

Star in a prime time, reality TV show?  Gaze at the ocean from her Malibu terrace, eat at Nobu, go on daily shopping trips and show us how she applies her makeup? Party with celebrities? Not sure how that inspires&#8230; so if she wants to do some good, money might be the easiest way to do it.


----------



## Bentley1

ByeKitty said:


> I meant the latter. You could very well be right, but the fact that we have never heard of any charity donations could mean two things: either she never donates any money, or she has donated to charity in private.
> 
> 
> 
> I also stand by a point I made earlier in this thread, that she is not obliged to donate money or to be some inspiring LGBT rights leader. Whether she wants to be an activist, a recluse or a Kardashian, that's entirely up to her. She has already done the LGBT community a great service by raising awareness, by being so public.




That's fine, I'm not telling you not to stand by your point? 

I don't care what this person does with their money. I was just making a comment that IF she wanted to donate, she could. I was making a point that Buying a car isn't a deterrent to her donating. IMO, she can do both. Doesn't have to, but CAN. 

And in my opinion, I don't believe for a second that she's donating quietly. Not for a hot second.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> Maybe we'll see it on the show except don't the Ks pretend to have garage sales, all for the show, and who knows what gets donated so never-mind




Hah, maybe? 
Yeah, the fraudulent garage sales, eBay sales "donations" and I forget what other load of junk they've pumped out there. I don't believe any of these people donate a red cent to any cause.


----------



## Cocolicious

Jayne1 said:


> Not that she has to, as you said, but how else can she "do some good?"
> 
> Donate a few hours a week at a shelter?  Okay, excellent idea.  Foster some trans kids? Great. Write a book that's probably coming.
> 
> Star in a prime time, reality TV show?  Gaze at the ocean from her Malibu terrace, eat at Nobu, go on daily shopping trips and show us how she applies her makeup? Party with celebrities? Not sure how that inspires so if she wants to do some good, money might be the easiest way to do it.



I remember watching a YouTube video of a handsome boy who transitioned into this  beautiful girl ( Gigi gorgeous) at one point after her transition she stopped making a videos about living trans and just lived her life. She still supports her community and even made a video about Bruce when he did an interview with Diane sawyer. People give this girl such hard time in every video for not always talking about being trans.
I just think  Caitlyn wants to be Caitlyn and not a whole community carried on her back. This is still new to her so give her time to enjoy finally being free and maybe that's when she might start doing those things you want...if she hasn't already.


----------



## Cocolicious

Encore Hermes said:


> Getting the links
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner is avoiding questions about her fatal car accident and should be forced to sit for a deposition, the stepchildren of victim Kim Howe claim in a new court filing.
> 
> *Lawyers for the step kids have filed a motion to compel testimony, claiming Jenner was a no-show at a June 25 deposition and has refused to provide alternate dates.*
> 
> "Contrary to Ms. Jenner's claim that she is cooperating, she failed to show for her deposition, and she has taken the 5th Amendment to avoid answering even the most basic written discovery we have served," lawyer Jeffrey Wolf said in a statement to the Daily News on Tuesday.


Wowie! That is just not right. I really don't know how Caitlyn sleeps at night accident or not knowing she took someone's life. I would be a wreck. No pun intended.


----------



## Bentley1

Luvbolide said:


> Normally I would agree with you, but I find it so disingenuous for her to bill herself as an LGBT activist and to talk about how she wants to help youth who are struggling with issues and prejudices.  Instead, all we see is her partying and dressing up in various outfits.  Having a group of transgender women to your Malibu estate for lunch - complete with photo crews is not the same thing as going incognito to a youth shelter/center for LGBT kids.
> 
> 
> 
> With Cait is has been nothing but me,me, me - look at me and my boobs -take pix of me.  I may not be keeping up, but I can't recall hearing of anything she has done to help or inspire others yet.  IMO, all the narcissism would maybe be a bit easier to take if maybe she made a donation.  But no, it is a half million dollar car that can't realistically be driven in Calif.  but hey, more pix!!
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't like this person...




Very good post. 
Indeed extremely Disingenuous. All the stuff she spewed out during her speech at the Espys about supporting, helping the LGBT community, yet the only person she's helping is herself. That's fine, but then don't stand up in front of millions of people and act like you care. Only person I see her caring about is herself. 
I find Caitlyn infinitely more unlikeable than Bruce. She's turned out to be an extremely disgusting, self-serving human being.


----------



## ByeKitty

Bentley1 said:


> That's fine, I'm not telling you not to stand by your point?
> 
> I don't care what this person does with their money. I was just making a comment that IF she wanted to donate, she could. I was making a point that Buying a car isn't a deterrent to her donating. IMO, she can do both. Doesn't have to, but CAN.
> 
> And in my opinion, I don't believe for a second that she's donating quietly. Not for a hot second.



Hey, we're both just stating opinions and discussing Caitlyn's willingness to be charitable, right? I'm not asking you to agree with me - I was simply observing that you're more critical of her intentions, and I'm not as certain as you on this.


----------



## ByeKitty

Cocolicious said:


> I remember watching a YouTube video of a handsome boy who transitioned into this  beautiful girl ( Gigi gorgeous) at one point after her transition she stopped making a videos about living trans and just lived her life. She still supports her community and even made a video about Bruce when he did an interview with Diane sawyer. People give this girl such hard time in every video for not always talking about being trans.
> I just think  Caitlyn wants to be Caitlyn and not a whole community carried on her back. This is still new to her so give her time to enjoy finally being free and maybe that's when she might start doing those things you want...if she hasn't already.



Haha I for one can't stannnnnddddd Gigi Gorgeous, she has basically spent the past two years trying to become as bimbo-ish as possible. Her role model is Barbie, a plastic charicature of a woman.


----------



## Bentley1

ByeKitty said:


> Hey, we're both just stating opinions and discussing Caitlyn's willingness to be charitable, right? I'm not asking you to agree with me - I was simply observing that you're more critical of her intentions, and I'm not as certain as you on this.




I stated my opinion and you questioned it, which is fine. 

You then reiterated a point you had made earlier that did not even apply to my post that you quoted. I never stated that she should donate or that she has to, I simply was saying to those questioning her dropping money on a new car that she can afford to do both IF she wanted to. Not
Sure why this is becoming a thing.


----------



## ByeKitty

Bentley1 said:


> I stated my opinion and you questioned it, which is fine.
> 
> You then reiterated a point you had made earlier that did not even apply to my post that you quoted. I never stated that she should donate or that she has to, I simply was saying to those questioning her dropping money on a new car that she can afford to do both IF she wanted to. Not
> Sure why this is becoming a thing.



Maybe I should've been clearer, my second paragraph was a separate point.


----------



## Bentley1

ByeKitty said:


> Maybe I should've been clearer, my second paragraph was a separate point.




Ok [emoji4]


----------



## afcgirl

Jayne1 said:


> Actually, I can understand his devotion to the two young ones.  They are biologically his, he raised them, they love him and their attitude towards him shows this.
> 
> The Ks came along later in their lives, were rude to him for years, by their own admission, and were kinda mean to him too. They never wanted to include him, but the show came along and they started filming together. so if his priorities were with the two youngest, it makes sense.
> 
> Having said that, I found that as much as he loves the two youngest, he always had a slight self absorbed, thoughtless attitude towards them too.
> 
> (Talking about Bruce so past tense.)



Well Khloe was only 7 (Rob probably only 3) when Bruce married Kris and they were married four years before Kendall was born.  So really Ks were there first.  Khloe has said many times she felt he was a father figure to her and I believe he walked her down the aisle when she married Lamar.  Also Bruce said many times he told Robert Kardashian when he was dying that he would take care of his kids like they were his own.  So although I am sure a step relationship is not perfect I am still sad for Khloe.


----------



## michie

afcgirl said:


> Well Khloe was only 7 (Rob probably only 3) when Bruce married Kris and they were married four years before Kendall was born.  So really Ks were there first.  Khloe has said many times she felt he was a father figure to her and I believe he walked her down the aisle when she married Lamar. * Also Bruce said many times he told Robert Kardashian when he was dying that he would take care of his kids like they were his own. * So although I am sure a step relationship is not perfect I am still sad for Khloe.



Well...I guess he didn't lie. LOL


----------



## Hobbsy

By living the way Jenner is living, I don't think there is any role model, mentor or help to the transgender community. I think it says...I was a man, I have money, now I'm going to be a woman and look at all the money I still have. If I were a transgender, Jenner wouldn't be someone I could look up to, he would be a rich man becoming a rich woman. Nothing more, nothing less. ...would be nothing to relate to.


----------



## chowlover2

Was watching ET tonight, and here's what they said about the first episode of "  I am Cait." First off, Cait is the vainest of all the Kardashians, second, she has almost as many shoes as Khloe and thirdly, there are some hurt feelings between Khloe & Cait because of the Vanity Fair interview. I forget the last 2, but it sounds like more garbage from Ryan Seacrest.


----------



## pittcat

michie said:


> Well...I guess he didn't lie. LOL




Burnnnn!


----------



## Encore Hermes

michie said:


> Well...I guess he didn't lie. LOL


----------



## bisousx

michie said:


> Well...I guess he didn't lie. LOL



So sad and funny but true


----------



## mama13drama99

Encore Hermes said:


> Getting the links
> 
> 
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner is avoiding questions about her fatal car accident and should be forced to sit for a deposition, the stepchildren of victim Kim Howe claim in a new court filing.
> 
> 
> 
> *Lawyers for the step kids have filed a motion to compel testimony, claiming Jenner was a no-show at a June 25 deposition and has refused to provide alternate dates.*
> 
> 
> 
> "Contrary to Ms. Jenner's claim that she is cooperating, she failed to show for her deposition, and she has taken the 5th Amendment to avoid answering even the most basic written discovery we have served," lawyer Jeffrey Wolf said in a statement to the Daily News on Tuesday.




AND THIS IS WHY THE CAR BEING DELIVERED IT POOR TIMING!!!  Like seriously...never mind, some people here just make me SMH...I guess one good turn deserves another because I'm sure I cause a lot of side to side and up and down action!


----------



## mama13drama99

Luvbolide said:


> Normally I would agree with you, but I find it so disingenuous for her to bill herself as an LGBT activist and to talk about how she wants to help youth who are struggling with issues and prejudices.  Instead, all we see is her partying and dressing up in various outfits.  Having a group of transgender women to your Malibu estate for lunch - complete with photo crews is not the same thing as going incognito to a youth shelter/center for LGBT kids.
> 
> 
> 
> With Cait is has been nothing but me,me, me - look at me and my boobs -take pix of me.  I may not be keeping up, but I can't recall hearing of anything she has done to help or inspire others yet.  IMO, all the narcissism would maybe be a bit easier to take if maybe she made a donation.  But no, it is a half million dollar car that can't realistically be driven in Calif.  but hey, more pix!!
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't like this person...




EX-ACT-LY!!!  But why would I expect others to get or even agree with the point you've made???


----------



## mama13drama99

Bentley1 said:


> That's fine, I'm not telling you not to stand by your point?
> 
> I don't care what this person does with their money. I was just making a comment that IF she wanted to donate, she could. I was making a point that Buying a car isn't a deterrent to her donating. IMO, she can do both. Doesn't have to, but CAN.
> 
> And in my opinion, I don't believe for a second that she's donating quietly. Not for a hot second.




Not at all. Not one darn cent!  
It's about self!  It's attention seeking.  And the very reason why I was moved after I reluctantly, days later, listened to that farce of a a speech given at the Espy's!!!  It sounded great...but it was empty words...just watch as that's repeatedly demonstrated!!!


----------



## mama13drama99

Bentley1 said:


> Very good post.
> Indeed extremely Disingenuous. All the stuff she spewed out during her speech at the Espys about supporting, helping the LGBT community, yet the only person she's helping is herself. That's fine, but then don't stand up in front of millions of people and act like you care. Only person I see her caring about is herself.
> I find Caitlyn infinitely more unlikeable than Bruce. She's turned out to be an extremely disgusting, self-serving human being.




The posts about "give her time" and "let her enjoy herself" are a complete hoot!!!!  Bruce had time.  With individuals who are transgender contemplating suicide daily, combating torturous treatment, and not able to #BeThem because of shamming, shunning or simply not having the means (all of which have been preached to no end to those of us -and I'm not lumping you into that group Bentley1- who don't ride the Caitlyn train) then I'm sorry (actually not sorry) but there's no time to enjoy the new life.  How many times has it been posted that Caitlyn IS a hero to said poster because of this, that and the third??? How much awareness?  How much are those of us who refuse to drink the koolaid are so wrong about everything we say because it's hateful and intolerant of every transgender person in the world (and not the one person who we've clearly discussed and named)??  Let's be real...the new life IS and has been being enjoy (long before the interview and mag cover...maybe not for years and years, but it's been in the works for a long time) and will and can continue to be ALL THE WHILE meaningful work is DONE! But when you're self-centered and absorbed...that's just not going to happen!!! 

It's insane the lengths reached to just uphold everything...the next thing to come is we'll see a picture of read breaking news about Caitlyn using the restroom and that will be "glossified" to be all peaches and cream!!!


----------



## chowlover2

mama13drama99 said:


> The posts about "give her time" and "let her enjoy herself" are a complete hoot!!!!  Bruce had time.  With individuals who are transgender contemplating suicide daily, combating torturous treatment, and not able to #BeThem because of shamming, shunning or simply not having the means (all of which have been preached to no end to those of us -and I'm not lumping you into that group Bentley1- who don't ride the Caitlyn train) then I'm sorry (actually not sorry) but there's no time to enjoy the new life.  How many times has it been posted that Caitlyn IS a hero to said poster because of this, that and the third??? How much awareness?  How much are those of us who refuse to drink the koolaid are so wrong about everything we say because it's hateful and intolerant of every transgender person in the world (and not the one person who we've clearly discussed and named)??  Let's be real...the new life IS and has been being enjoy (long before the interview and mag cover...maybe not for years and years, but it's been in the works for a long time) and will and can continue to be ALL THE WHILE meaningful work is DONE! But when you're self-centered and absorbed...that's just not going to happen!!!
> 
> It's insane the lengths reached to just uphold everything...the next thing to come is we'll see a picture of read breaking news about Caitlyn using the restroom and that will be "glossified" to be all peaches and cream!!!




I agree, this has been in the works for awhile, last few years at least. I'm guessing what ever was between he and Kris came to a head and he moved out to Malibu. The excuse Kimmie Kakes, Kanye & baby was just that, an excuse. So that's a good 2 yrs. I honestly can't understand never having spoken to a transgendered person until 2 months ago though. If I were going to become transgendered, I would have talked to as many transgendered as possible. And that would be possible anonymously online. I would want to know what I was up against, the good and the bad. 

I have no problems with Caitlin being transgendered, or anyone for that matter. It would be very sad to live an inauthentic life. But let's face it, she is more like a K than the K's! 

And the sad thing is to bring change, money has to be spent. And this is in any and all areas. Look how little we knew about breast cancer before Susan G Komen foundation was established. If you want to find a cure or evoke change, money must be raised and spent to do so.


----------



## Jayne1

afcgirl said:


> Well Khloe was only 7 (Rob probably only 3) when Bruce married Kris and they were married four years before Kendall was born.  So really Ks were there first.  Khloe has said many times she felt he was a father figure to her and I believe he walked her down the aisle when she married Lamar.  Also Bruce said many times he told Robert Kardashian when he was dying that he would take care of his kids like they were his own.  So although I am sure a step relationship is not perfect I am still sad for Khloe.



Khloe was beyond rude to Bruce on the show. I wonder if them knowing about the cross dressing and not saying anything made them look down on him. She wouldn't even tell him about Lamar until the last minute. She was obnoxiously overbearing, but maybe she talked to the other guy who took her in (Rob Sr) the same way.  Maybe that's just her way with father figures.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Cocolicious said:


> I remember watching a YouTube video of a handsome boy who transitioned into this  beautiful girl ( Gigi gorgeous) at one point after her transition she stopped making a videos about living trans and just lived her life. She still supports her community and even made a video about Bruce when he did an interview with Diane sawyer. People give this girl such hard time in every video for not always talking about being trans.
> 
> I just think  Caitlyn wants to be Caitlyn and not a whole community carried on her back. This is still new to her so give her time to enjoy finally being free and maybe that's when she might start doing those things you want...if she hasn't already.




I'm also a flower of Gigi Gorgeous. She's funny!!! I think after sometime, you can't just mention that you're transsexual anymore. Some of them just want to 'forget' that they were men before.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

*Caitlyn Jenner&#8217;s reality show &#8220;I am Cait&#8221; gets strong reviews: will you watch** it?*





It&#8217;s just a handful of days until &#8220;I am Cait&#8221; premieres on E! this Sunday. I&#8217;ll do my best to watch it, although I&#8217;ll be traveling and will have to catch it on demand. One of us, probably Kaiser, will do a review early next week. In the mean time the advance reviews are out and they&#8217;re very positive. Outlets like the first episode of &#8220;I am Cait&#8221; and say it&#8217;s fun and handles the subject well. Kanye even makes an appearance. Caitlyn&#8217;s mother Esther is said to steal the show.



> *Caitlyn Jenner&#8217;s debut, a slow media rollout that has been both enormously delicate and extremely well-managed, moves smoothly on and up with her new E! series, I Am Cait.
> 
> The premiere, at least, is closer in tone to a reality show on Oprah Winfrey&#8217;s OWN than E!
> 
> It&#8217;s not that the themes are surprising &#8211; given what we know of Jenner&#8217;s struggle to transition from Bruce to Caitlyn, a show would be just flat-out revolting if it didn&#8217;t address the sense of isolation and despair that so many in the transgender community suffer (Caitlyn admits to having contemplated suicide), if it didn&#8217;t provide consolation and encouragement and promote tolerance.
> 
> But to find all this 1.) in a series on E!, which is also concurrently bringing out a dusty old bucket of Hollywood rhinestones called Stewarts & Hamiltons, but 2.) in a production of origins Kardashian-ian (the adjectival form of &#8220;Kardashian&#8221 &#8211; well, Oprah, what do you think?
> 
> Although Kim and Kanye put in a brief appearance, the crux of the first hour is Caitlyn, 65, &#8220;presenting&#8221; herself to her mother, Esther. Esther asks an uncomfortable question about the Bible&#8217;s opinion on what used to be called gender-bending, but nothing has changed about her love for her child. Cait, she says, possesses not only the same personality as Bruce, but the same soul.
> 
> Jenner, after decades before the camera (if as a male), is very, very good at both explaining her life and accepting the responsibilities that come with the unofficial job of trans spokeswoman. She talks with a lucidity and directness that are reassuring and winning &#8211; and never soppy or self-pitying.


(From People)

*Yesterday I heard a great interview on Fresh Air with the star and the director of a new indie film called Tangerine, about trans sex workers in LA. Director Sean Baker said that star Mya Taylor, a transgender woman, told him early in the process that she wanted the film to be funny, which Baker was initially reluctant about. 

He came to understand that this was how to reach a bigger audience. &#8220;Mya was asking to make pop&#8230; something that would actually appeal and pull in general audiences&#8230; because that&#8217;s how you communicate to the mainstream.&#8221; That&#8217;s very well put. Reality shows and pop culture are how you communicate with the mainstream. We are witnessing the making of a transgender celebrity and I love it.

People has a new portrait of Caitlyn and they posted another preview of I Am Cait last week.

Source: Celebitchy


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I don't like Jenner either, but I think he's always been this way, it's just accentuated even more now. If I were transgender, this is NOT who I would pick as a role model. Caitlyn is making a mockery of the whole thing.


----------



## skarsbabe

Exactly. I feel like this thread is not about being transgender... it's about regardless of man or woman, Bruce/Caitlyn being an all around narcissistic, self serving individual dying to be in the spotlight.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I'm looking forward to the show so we can finally see if these last few months Cait has been "doing some good".


----------



## chowlover2

I have a feeling the only good she is doing is going in to her bank account...


----------



## Encore Hermes

It is what she is all about after they are through filming her show that I'm interested in seeing.


----------



## guccimamma

skarsbabe said:


> Exactly. I feel like this thread is not about being transgender... it's about regardless of man or woman, Bruce/Caitlyn being an all around narcissistic, self serving individual dying to be in the spotlight.



that's how i see it. 

i think her newfound deep internal happiness/peace is coming from the spotlight centered square on her.

she never set out to help anyone, only herself.


----------



## Sassys

mama13drama99 said:


> The posts about "give her time" and "let her enjoy herself" are a complete hoot!!!!  Bruce had time.  With individuals who are transgender contemplating suicide daily, combating torturous treatment, and not able to #BeThem because of shamming, shunning or simply not having the means (all of which have been preached to no end to those of us -and I'm not lumping you into that group Bentley1- who don't ride the Caitlyn train) then I'm sorry (actually not sorry) but there's no time to enjoy the new life.  How many times has it been posted that Caitlyn IS a hero to said poster because of this, that and the third??? How much awareness?  How much are those of us who refuse to drink the koolaid are so wrong about everything we say because it's hateful and intolerant of every transgender person in the world (and not the one person who we've clearly discussed and named)??  Let's be real...the new life IS and has been being enjoy (long before the interview and mag cover...maybe not for years and years, but it's been in the works for a long time) and will and can continue to be ALL THE WHILE meaningful work is DONE! But when you're self-centered and absorbed...that's just not going to happen!!!
> 
> It's insane the lengths reached to just uphold everything...the next thing to come is we'll see a picture of read breaking news about Caitlyn using the restroom and that will be "glossified" to be all peaches and cream!!!


 
You clearly have no idea what it feels like to be so miserable inside, that nothing anyone does for you or the material things you have makes you feel better. Just because Bruce had money to enjoy things, does not mean he did. He probably was just going through the motions, day after day.

I have watched a friend of mine, pretend to my face that he was so happy (newly married and a brand new baby), but had no clue deep down inside he was miserable. Not once did I ever not see a smile on his face. His face would light up even more, whenever he talked about his son. Little did we know that his new marriage was falling apart. Imagine my horror, when I get a call from a friend of mine, that our dear friend Dale called her up to let her know he was in a hotel room in NJ and would be killing himself. She had no way of getting to him in time (and he knew she wouldn&#8217;t), so that is why he went toNJ to do it. 

Caitlyn is now free to be herself and finally have some true happiness, happiness that is real and not just a temporary Band-Aid. Plenty of people have tons of money and take their lives, because they are not happy inside, they are just going through the motions of life, until they can figure out how to end their pain. She is allowed to have some happiness just like you are.


----------



## CeeJay

Jayne1 said:


> It just seems so pointless to get an expensive, super fast sport car and drive it in stop and go city traffic, or stay within the speed limit on the highway.
> 
> You have to be really desperate for people to look at you if you want a car that you can't drive the way it should be driven.



That's LA in a nutshell; it's all about the exterior & trimmings!  I moved here for the weather, but the conspicuous consumption can be very humorous at times (Rodeo Drive is a FANTASTIC people-watching space!)


----------



## VickyB

skarsbabe said:


> Exactly. I feel like this thread is not about being transgender... it's about regardless of man or woman, Bruce/Caitlyn being an all around narcissistic, self serving individual dying to be in the spotlight.



Yes


----------



## redney

Well, well, one of the first reviews of the "I Am Cait" premiere. Interesting that PMK is called "Kris Kardashian" in this review, and I completely disagree with the reviewer's advice in the last sentence for Cait to be more open and spontaneous a la the Kardashians!  Obviously this reviewer knows nothing of their complete fakery on their shows!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/24/a...caitlyn-jenner-documents-a-changing-self.html



> *Review: In I Am Cait, Caitlyn Jenner Documents a Changing Self*
> By MIKE HALE JULY 22, 2015
> 
> As Caitlyn Jenner continues to live out her well-documented gender transition, theres one area in which she has returned to her heyday as Bruce Jenner, Olympic champion. Once again shes a polished, effective pitchwoman, selling acceptance and transgender pride as capably as she once sold breakfast cereal.
> 
> Her new campaign continues on Sunday night with the premiere of I Am Cait, a glossy, eight-episode documentary series on E! from Bunim/Murray Productions, the reality powerhouse behind shows like The Real World and Ms. Jenners previous series, Keeping Up With the Kardashians. Its the latest phase in a well-choreographed rollout that has included a two-hour interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC, a Vanity Fair cover and an appearance at ESPNs ESPY Awards.
> 
> Based on that first episode, I Am Cait smoothly extends the resounding success of Ms. Jenners public transformation and cultural crusade  it accomplishes its inspirational, educational and motivational goals. (Later episodes were not available; presumably there hasnt been a lot of time to film since Ms. Jenner began living as Caitlyn.) It doesnt totally succeed as dramatic reality television, but perhaps thats to be expected given how high the stakes are, both for the transgender cause and for Ms. Jenners personal brand.
> 
> Not a whole lot happens in the first hour of I Am Cait, and theres not much to be learned for anyone who has watched the ABC interview. The main thing thats new is the opportunity to see Ms. Jenner at length in full female hair, makeup and dress, and bounteous commentary is sure to ensue on her wardrobe choices  what do we think of the leopard number, the white pantsuit, the dark floral wrap? In one of the episodes comic highlights, Ms. Jenner pulls an item out of her closet and her stepdaughter Kim Kardashian notes that Ms. Jenners former wife Kris Kardashian has the same dress.
> 
> This continues a trend in much of the coverage and presentation of Ms. Jenner, in which her appearance is the central focus, from her introduction as the stunning Caitlyn Jenner at the ESPYs to the scenes in I Am Cait of her in the makeup chair, her hair in curlers, and of her mother, Esther, saying, I think hes a very good-looking woman. In a choice thats both a corrective to this and a subtle affirmation of it, the show opens with Ms. Jenner in bed, looking great with no obvious makeup or styling.
> 
> The primary action of the premiere episode consists of a visit to Ms. Jenners ocean-view home by her mother and two sisters and a visit by Ms. Jenner to the parents of a transgender teenage boy who committed suicide in May. Theres a lot of earnest, supportive conversation, enlivened by a paparazzi chase and by Kim Kardashians appearance along with her husband, Kanye West, who is faintly hilarious in the role of the dutiful, trying-to-please son-in-law.
> 
> Whats missing is any real conflict, and you can see the producers working to gin some up  Esther Jenner expresses some honest, affecting confusion and anguish (but no real opposition), and there are hints that things may not go so well with Ms. Jenners male buddies and her stepchildren in future episodes. The general narrative arc is from mild apprehension to full acceptance.
> 
> Other current shows about transgender people, like TLCs I Am Jazz (about the tremendously winning teenage girl Jazz Jennings) and ABC Familys Becoming Us, are also generally upbeat but are more able to generate some tension and discord, perhaps because they focus on younger people and take place outside the celebrity bubble of affirmation.
> 
> Another factor is that Caitlyn Jenner, on screen, maintains the public personality of Bruce Jenner. That consistency is mentioned in the show  family members hope Ms. Jenners temperament wont change  but no one talks about what exactly that entails. The truth is that Caitlyn and Bruce both appear to have some of the traits associated with athletic greatness: forcefulness combined with a lack of serious introspection, which would just be a distraction.
> 
> Theres no reason to doubt Ms. Jenners sincerity when she cites statistics about suicide among transgender teenagers or consoles a grieving parent, but you also cant help noticing how she seems to be reading from a script. She has the qualities of an excellent decathlete, spokeswoman and even leader, but as a reality star she could take a few lessons in openness and spontaneity from the Kardashians.


----------



## guccimamma

Sassys said:


> You clearly have no idea what it feels like to be so miserable inside, that nothing anyone does for you or the material things you have makes you feel better. Just because Bruce had money to enjoy things, does not mean he did. He probably was just going through the motions, day after day.
> 
> I have watched a friend of mine, pretend to my face that he was so happy (newly married and a brand new baby), but had no clue deep down inside he was miserable. Not once did I ever not see a smile on his face. His face would light up even more, whenever he talked about his son. Little did we know that his new marriage was falling apart. Imagine my horror, when I get a call from a friend of mine, that our dear friend Dale called her up to let her know he was in a hotel room in NJ and would be killing himself. She had no way of getting to him in time (and he knew she wouldnt), so that is why he went toNJ to do it.



that's so sad and tragic for everyone involved.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm sorry y'all but I still don't think this is gonna end on a good note.







http://www.eonline.com/news/678843/...-issues-in-i-am-cait-clip-watch-the-video-now


----------



## Encore Hermes

Kanye is in this episode right?


----------



## skarsbabe

Yeesh, compare that image to all her outings and VF cover. Either way, the amount of PS on that face is terrifying.


----------



## labelwhore04

I actually don't think she looks that bad, considering she's not wearing any makeup.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

labelwhore04 said:


> I actually don't think she looks that bad, considering she's not wearing any makeup.



Same. Considering this is a person in transition over 60. Yes, the PS is noticeable but I was expecting that it would be.

Guts for letting herself go barefaced on camera.


----------



## Sassys

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Same. Considering this is a person in transition over 60. Yes, the PS is noticeable but I was expecting that it would be.
> 
> Guts for letting herself go barefaced on camera.



Agree!


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm sorry y'all but I still don't think this is gonna end on a good note.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.eonline.com/news/678843/...-issues-in-i-am-cait-clip-watch-the-video-now




Had to go and post this without a warning, didn't ya? [emoji28][emoji4]


----------



## Hobbsy

Sassys said:


> You clearly have no idea what it feels like to be so miserable inside, that nothing anyone does for you or the material things you have makes you feel better. Just because Bruce had money to enjoy things, does not mean he did. He probably was just going through the motions, day after day.
> 
> I have watched a friend of mine, pretend to my face that he was so happy (newly married and a brand new baby), but had no clue deep down inside he was miserable. Not once did I ever not see a smile on his face. His face would light up even more, whenever he talked about his son. Little did we know that his new marriage was falling apart. Imagine my horror, when I get a call from a friend of mine, that our dear friend Dale called her up to let her know he was in a hotel room in NJ and would be killing himself. She had no way of getting to him in time (and he knew she wouldnt), so that is why he went toNJ to do it.
> 
> Caitlyn is now free to be herself and finally have some true happiness, happiness that is real and not just a temporary Band-Aid. Plenty of people have tons of money and take their lives, because they are not happy inside, they are just going through the motions of life, until they can figure out how to end their pain. She is allowed to have some happiness just like you are.



He killed a woman and didn't even show up for court! Prick should be in jail.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm sorry y'all but I still don't think this is gonna end on a good note.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.eonline.com/news/678843/...-issues-in-i-am-cait-clip-watch-the-video-now



Jesus,  you scared me! I wouldn't watch the show if I was paid!


----------



## hunnyplaya

She looks very much like Janice Dickinson here 




Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm sorry y'all but I still don't think this is gonna end on a good note.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.eonline.com/news/678843/...-issues-in-i-am-cait-clip-watch-the-video-now


----------



## lanasyogamama

It's probably not that hard to go makeup free when you've only been wearing it for a few months.  She (as a he) had been on tv without makeup for years.


----------



## pukasonqo

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Same. Considering this is a person in transition over 60. Yes, the PS is noticeable but I was expecting that it would be.
> 
> 
> 
> Guts for letting herself go barefaced on camera.




plus it would take time for her face to "settle"
i assume she is also having oestrogen therapy, it won't be easy to change from a masculine face to a softer more feminine one


----------



## guccimamma

lanasyogamama said:


> It's probably not that hard to go makeup free when you've only been wearing it for a few months.  She (as a he) had been on tv without makeup for years.



good point!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sorry, I'll try and warn you guys next time. I'm not sure if this is the episode that Kayne's in or not. The show starts Sunday right?

I think the pic looks exactly like Bruce (don't yell at me) except with long hair. I can't believe how the makeup can transform Jenner's looks in such a drastic way.


----------



## Sassys

Hobbsy said:


> He killed a woman and didn't even show up for court! Prick should be in jail.



So you've never had an accident? You never broken something, spilled something, etc. It was an accident. People have accidents. I understand that someone dies, and it is sad; but people don't go to jail for accidents.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Sorry, I'll try and warn you guys next time. I'm not sure if this is the episode that Kayne's in or not. The show starts Sunday right?
> 
> I think the pic looks exactly like Bruce (don't yell at me) except with long hair. I can't believe how the makeup can transform Jenner's looks in such a drastic way.



Yes, but with a shaved down chin/jaw and inflated lips... That's what it looks like! I don't think she looks _that_ bad to be honest, we've seen more terrifying close-ups of ex-wife PMK where she was wearing make-up.


----------



## Hobbsy

Sassys said:


> So you've never had an accident? You never broken something, spilled something, etc. It was an accident. People have accidents. I understand that someone dies, and it is sad; but people don't go to jail for accidents.



I've never killed someone. No. He had a court date. You don't show up for court dates most people would have a warrant out for their arrest. Guess he isn't "most people?!"


----------



## chowlover2

I prefer Chaz Bono to be the voice of the transgender movement. Class, not crass.


----------



## Hobbsy

Sassys said:


> So you've never had an accident? You never broken something, spilled something, etc. It was an accident. People have accidents. I understand that someone dies, and it is sad; but people don't go to jail for accidents.



P.S. please don't ever associate the death of someone to breaking or spilling something?!


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> I've never killed someone. No. He had a court date. You don't show up for court dates most people would have a warrant out for their arrest. Guess he isn't "most people?!"



I don't understand why he didn't attend the court date. Was he obliged to be there? I mean I'm not familiar with California law but I have heard of cases where people are not obliged to attend. I do agree with Sassys that people shouldn't be put in jail over accidents. He wasn't deliberately killing anyone, that's obvious in this case.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

chowlover2 said:


> I prefer Chaz Bono to be the voice of the transgender movement. Class, not crass.




I completely agree.


----------



## Hobbsy

ByeKitty said:


> I don't understand why he didn't attend the court date. Was he obliged to be there? I mean I'm not familiar with California law but I have heard of cases where people are not obliged to attend. I do agree with Sassys that people shouldn't be put in jail over accidents. He wasn't deliberately killing anyone, that's obvious in this case.



You have a court date, you attend. Responsible people do. If you don't an arrest warrant should go out.


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> You have a court date, you attend. Responsible people do. If you don't an arrest warrant should go out.



Ah, I assume that's your opinion but that's not how it technically works in CA right? I also wonder about what other things on his agenda could possibly be more important than the court date, can't think of any.


----------



## Sassys

Hobbsy said:


> P.S. please don't ever associate the death of someone to breaking or spilling something?!



When you learn what the word accident means, then you can tell me what I can do. Thank you.


----------



## Sassys

ByeKitty said:


> I don't understand why he didn't attend the court date. Was he obliged to be there? I mean I'm not familiar with California law but I have heard of cases where people are not obliged to attend. I do agree with Sassys that people shouldn't be put in jail over accidents. *He wasn't deliberately killing anyone, that's obvious in this case*.



Thank you.


----------



## ByeKitty

Sassys said:


> When you learn what the word accident means, then you can tell me what I can do. Thank you.


----------



## Hobbsy

Sassys said:


> When you learn what the word accident means, then you can tell me what I can do. Thank you.



You figure out what a civil suit regarding wrongful death means, let me know!


----------



## Hobbsy

ByeKitty said:


> Ah, I assume that's your opinion but that's not how it technically works in CA right? I also wonder about what other things on his agenda could possibly be more important than the court date, can't think of any.



I didn't make up our judicial system.


----------



## mama13drama99

Sassys said:


> You clearly have no idea what it feels like to be so miserable inside, that nothing anyone does for you or the material things you have makes you feel better. Just because Bruce had money to enjoy things, does not mean he did. He probably was just going through the motions, day after day.
> 
> I have watched a friend of mine, pretend to my face that he was so happy (newly married and a brand new baby), but had no clue deep down inside he was miserable. Not once did I ever not see a smile on his face. His face would light up even more, whenever he talked about his son. Little did we know that his new marriage was falling apart. Imagine my horror, when I get a call from a friend of mine, that our dear friend Dale called her up to let her know he was in a hotel room in NJ and would be killing himself. She had no way of getting to him in time (and he knew she wouldnt), so that is why he went toNJ to do it.
> 
> Caitlyn is now free to be herself and finally have some true happiness, happiness that is real and not just a temporary Band-Aid. Plenty of people have tons of money and take their lives, because they are not happy inside, they are just going through the motions of life, until they can figure out how to end their pain. She is allowed to have some happiness just like you are.




Now that the surprise of this address to me has passed...
Sorry (not sorry!), but I'm not moved on behalf of Caitlyn!!!  To begin, you don't know what I have an idea of.  I had a cousin take his own life, and while I could get in to the details as they would certainly be well placed on this thread, I will not because just as your account it has NO IMPACT ON MY OPINION ABOUT Bruce/Caitlyn!  Now, before you or anyone else jumps the gun, I'm not making light of or dismissing your friend, his life, his pain and his decision to end his existence.  Even not knowing you or him, I doesn't feel well to read about him.  It tugged at my heart's strings...suicide does that...I could get into the selfishness of it and how it impacts those left behind but that's neither here nor there for this thread and for the point that EYE (the only way I could emphasize I) made. Next, and here's the crux of the point, Bruce/Caitlyn has purported one thing and so has Caitlyn's die-hards herein, yet has not only miserably failed but has basically walked the same path as the very ones whom are electronic drug for filth in other threads!!!!  So Caitlyn, IMBook, cannot have it both ways, nor can her advocates in this thread. You don't have to like and I ain't trying to convince no one here of anything, yet and still, the fact of the matter is so many herein have touted her to be so great for a, and I definitely can agreed that it's needed, movement...that's Caitlyn really has not shown any regard for...not any sincerely meaningful regard. I don't give two DUCKS about the speech given at the Espy awards...it was hogwash!  It sounded great and wonderful, but at the beginning and end of the day of the show Caitlyn and her crew did themselves!  And that's the bottom line.  So miss me with what you perceived as the lack of idea I possess about...and darn thing because yoi don't know me and this right here thread isn't about me (cause someone will be quick to quip that I don't know Bruce/Caitlyn).  Furthermore, and I say this with as much empathy as I would if I knew you, you don't understand the exact pain that your friend Dale endured either!  Your vantage point was one of being his friend; not living his pain.  So please don't play that card again.


----------



## Freckles1

If he isn't being looked at for a criminal case, then why is he pleading the 5th for the civil case? I didn't think you could plead the 5th in a civil case unless a criminal case is pending?


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> I didn't make up our judicial system.



Obviously no, but I was asking how it worked legally because I was wondering about that. Your thoughts on this are clear. Let me just add that I hope you are never involved in a freak car accident like this one.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I don't know how the accident affected Jenner, but from what I saw afterwards, and weeks following, I would think given the fact that his brother was killed in a motor vehicle accident that devastated him, this would cause PTSD. I get the impression it wasn't a priority though. I mean it sure didn't stop him from gallivanting around town.


----------



## mama13drama99

chowlover2 said:


> I agree, this has been in the works for awhile, last few years at least. I'm guessing what ever was between he and Kris came to a head and he moved out to Malibu. The excuse Kimmie Kakes, Kanye & baby was just that, an excuse. So that's a good 2 yrs. I honestly can't understand never having spoken to a transgendered person until 2 months ago though. If I were going to become transgendered, I would have talked to as many transgendered as possible. And that would be possible anonymously online. I would want to know what I was up against, the good and the bad.
> 
> I have no problems with Caitlin being transgendered, or anyone for that matter. It would be very sad to live an inauthentic life. But let's face it, she is more like a K than the K's!
> 
> And the sad thing is to bring change, money has to be spent. And this is in any and all areas. Look how little we knew about breast cancer before Susan G Komen foundation was established. If you want to find a cure or evoke change, money must be raised and spent to do so.




Exactly!  And as Bentley1 said, Caitlyn can do both -enjoy the new life (that has clearly been demonstrated in all lavishness and luxury...the earrings along for the farce of an award given were almost $4K for goodness sakes...auction them off!!!) and make a significant impact with time AND money...all the while taking pap strolls and filming!


----------



## Hobbsy

Freckles1 said:


> If he isn't being looked at for a criminal case, then why is he pleading the 5th for the civil case? I didn't think you could plead the 5th in a civil case unless a criminal case is pending?



2 civil suits are pending against him.


----------



## ByeKitty

mama13drama99 said:


> Now that the surprise of this address to me has passed...
> Sorry (not sorry!), but I'm not moved on behalf of Caitlyn!!!  To begin, you don't know what I have an idea of.  I had a cousin take his own life, and while I could get in to the details as they would certainly be well placed on this thread, I will not because just as your account it has NO IMPACT ON MY OPINION ABOUT Bruce/Caitlyn!  Now, before you or anyone else jumps the gun, I'm not making light of or dismissing your friend, his life, his pain and his decision to end his existence.  Even not knowing you or him, I doesn't feel well to read about him.  It tugged at my heart's strings...suicide does that...I could get into the selfishness of it and how it impacts those left behind but that's neither here nor there for this thread and for the point that EYE (the only way I could emphasize I) made. Next, and here's the crux of the point, Bruce/Caitlyn has purported one thing and so has Caitlyn's die-hards herein, yet has not only miserably failed but has basically walked the same path as the very ones whom are electronic drug for filth in other threads!!!!  So Caitlyn, IMBook, cannot have it both ways, nor can her advocates in this thread. You don't have to like and I ain't trying to convince no one here of anything, yet and still, the fact of the matter is so many herein have touted her to be so great for a, and I definitely can agreed that it's needed, movement...that's Caitlyn really has not shown any regard for...not any sincerely meaningful regard. I don't give two DUCKS about the speech given at the Espy awards...it was hogwash!  It sounded great and wonderful, but at the beginning and end of the day of the show Caitlyn and her crew did themselves!  And that's the bottom line.  So miss me with what you perceived as the lack of idea I possess about...and darn thing because yoi don't know me and this right here thread isn't about me (cause someone will be quick to quip that I don't know Bruce/Caitlyn).  Furthermore, and I say this with as much empathy as I would if I knew you, you don't understand the exact pain that your friend Dale endured either!  Your vantage point was one of being his friend; not living his pain.  So please don't play that card again.


I'm just bothered by the way you refer to people who don't agree with everything you say as "Caitlyn die-hards". Like you said we don't know you, but you don't know us either. There's hardly anything about Caitlyn I admire.


----------



## Hobbsy

ByeKitty said:


> Obviously no, but I was asking how it worked legally because I was wondering about that. Your thoughts on this are clear. Let me just add that I hope you are never involved in a freak car accident like this one.



I hope I'm not either. If I was I would go to every freaking court appearance and do everything I was ordered to do.


----------



## pursegrl12

Hobbsy said:


> 2 civil suits are pending against him.




Sorry those civil suits will not fit into his busy schedule of wearing navy wrap dresses and size 13 kitten heels.


----------



## Hobbsy

pursegrl12 said:


> Sorry those civil suits will not fit into his busy schedule of wearing navy wrap dresses and size 13 kitten heels.



Apparently his agenda is more important or there are some great dress sales going on.


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> I hope I'm not either. If I was I would go to every freaking court appearance and do everything I was ordered to do.



Same here


----------



## mama13drama99

Hobbsy said:


> I've never killed someone. No. He had a court date. You don't show up for court dates most people would have a warrant out for their arrest. Guess he isn't "most people?!"




I don't even think I could have replied to that...spilled something???? Really!!!! The advocacy and cheerleadering has surpassed what I thought it would end at because it couldn't get any deeper or foolish!!!!


----------



## Hobbsy

mama13drama99 said:


> I don't even think I could have replied to that...spilled something???? Really!!!! The advocacy and cheerleadering has surpassed what I thought it would end at because it couldn't get any deeper or foolish!!!!



Un flipping believable. Let's see....I had an accident.... I either ran into someone's car with mine and they are dead or I spilled my diet Coke? !   I can't remember which????!!! &#128552;&#128552;


----------



## ByeKitty

mama13drama99 said:


> I don't even think I could have replied to that...spilled something???? Really!!!! The advocacy and cheerleadering has surpassed what I thought it would end at because it couldn't get any deeper or foolish!!!!



What? No! Wait. Sassys said that the car accident was exactly that- an accident. It wasn't meant to happen. Then Hobbsy said accident meant spilling something, so this obviously wasn't it. Nobody said the car crash was like spilling something!


----------



## Hobbsy

ByeKitty said:


> What? No! Wait. Sassys said that the car accident was exactly that- an accident. It wasn't meant to happen. Then Hobbsy said accident meant spilling something, so this obviously wasn't it. Nobody said the car crash was like spilling something!



Wrong.


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> Wrong.



Well correct me!


----------



## Hobbsy

Sassys said:


> So you've never had an accident? You never broken something, spilled something, etc. It was an accident. People have accidents. I understand that someone dies, and it is sad; but people don't go to jail for accidents.



Sassy equates a car accident that killed someone to spilling her pop.


----------



## usmcwifey

Out of curiosity and I don't know if it's been mentioned but did she get breast implants? Or is it just make up and some bra stuffing? Or she not going that far ?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

usmcwifey said:


> Out of curiosity and I don't know if it's been mentioned but did she get breast implants? Or is it just make up and some bra stuffing? Or she not going that far ?



Not sure. The hormones might help with that as well, but if she's looking to really get a bust, then yeah she'd have to be using stuffing or some implants I think (?)


----------



## Bentley1

lanasyogamama said:


> It's probably not that hard to go makeup free when you've only been wearing it for a few months.  She (as a he) had been on tv without makeup for years.




Right? It's not a huge stretch for her to be seen bared faced. It's how she's presented for the past 65 years. 

I think what makes it jarring for me is how obvious the PS is without all the bells and whistles.


----------



## bisousx

Bentley1 said:


> Right? It's not a huge stretch for her to be seen bared faced. It's how she's presented for the past 65 years.
> 
> I think what makes it jarring for me is how obvious the PS is without all the bells and whistles.



Yeah. Bruce was never going to have a good canvas for PS, much like that Navy SEAL who transitioned.


----------



## Jayne1

labelwhore04 said:


> I actually don't think she looks that bad, considering she's not wearing any makeup.



That picture is really nice, but if you watch the actual scene (it's filmed in the middle of the night) the face is still way off.

As others said, it may still have to settle. Also one nostril is different than the other, but I agree that photo still looks pretty.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Not making a comment on the pic but I was under the assumption that Caitlyn (when Bruce) had been applying makeup for a long time, years possibly decades. Just not filmed.


----------



## Jayne1

Still filming.

http://www.tmz.com


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> That picture is really nice, but if you watch the actual scene (it's filmed in the middle of the night) the face is still way off.
> 
> As others said, it may still have to settle. Also one nostril is different than the other, but I agree that photo still looks pretty.




Really, you think she looks pretty In that picture without makeup? I know it's your opinion, not trying to pick at you at all, I'm genuinely trying to see the pretty in her face? [emoji53]


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

That outfit looks nice.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> Really, you think she looks pretty In that picture without makeup? I know it's your opinion, not trying to pick at you at all, I'm genuinely trying to see the pretty in her face? [emoji53]



I guess I think a 65 year old recently turned female who smokes and loved the sun looks good in that picture. I think we're all being very kind though, aren't we.

I can't get over why they gave her those puffy cheekbones.  That looks a bit off to me. The world is full of beautiful women with no highly defined cheeks, so it's not necessary to be a pretty woman.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Jayne1 said:


> I guess I think a 65 year old recently turned female who smokes and loved the sun looks good in that picture. I think we're all being very kind though, aren't we.
> 
> I can't get over why they gave her those puffy cheekbones.  That looks a bit off to me. The world is full of beautiful women with no highly defined cheeks, so it's not necessary to be a pretty woman.



I think we _are_ being kind. But no kinder than I was to say, Sophia Loren. Sophia is 80+ and her makeup was so-so (and she's had quite a bit of sun-exposure too). 

I still think a lot of Caitlyn's work is settling, but does she look better or worse than women of her in age _in LA?_  I don't know. (I will say I was there in early July, and was more than a bit offput by the woman who was 70 if she was a day that got into the elevator of a parking garage with my friend and I, and she had boobs to out-do Courtney Stodden, and lips that could suck a watermelon through a straw).

Given that comparison....meh...Caitlyn isn't so bad, ya know?


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> I can't get over why they gave her those puffy cheekbones.  That looks a bit off to me. The world is full of beautiful women with no highly defined cheeks, so it's not necessary to be a pretty woman.



Omg yes. I cannot understand, for the life of me, why some celebs insist on getting fake cheekbones (Jada Smith for example).


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sassys said:


> So you've never had an accident? You never broken something, spilled something, etc. It was an accident. People have accidents. I understand that someone dies, and it is sad; but people don't go to jail for accidents.




In other countries they do. It makes me sad.


----------



## VickyB

lanasyogamama said:


> It's probably not that hard to go makeup free when you've only been wearing it for a few months.  She (as a he) had been on tv without makeup for years.



Really???
Always thought it was obvious that Bruce was wearing make up during KUWTK.


----------



## VickyB

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm sorry y'all but I still don't think this is gonna end on a good note.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.eonline.com/news/678843/...-issues-in-i-am-cait-clip-watch-the-video-now[/QUOTE
> 
> Somebody missed 101 moisturizing. This is an SOS call.


----------



## Crystalina

chowlover2 said:


> I prefer Chaz Bono to be the voice of the transgender movement. Class, not crass.




[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;

I completely agree!!!


----------



## Crystalina

I'm sorry, I just cannot understand how a MAN who still has critical MAN parts can get a boob job and some hair extensions and suddenly be called a woman.

No way, not buying it.


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> I guess I think a 65 year old recently turned female who smokes and loved the sun looks good in that picture. *I think we're all being very kind though, aren't we.
> *
> I can't get over why they gave her those puffy cheekbones.  That looks a bit off to me. The world is full of beautiful women with no highly defined cheeks, so it's not necessary to be a pretty woman.



Well, some are.    I sure haven't been lol

Yeah, they put the fillers in the cheek to create lift and that youthful fullness, but it just never looks quite right?  They end up looking like the joker (PMK!) or chipmunks.  You would think they would learn from looking at others, but no one thinks they'll end up looking freaky and fake.


----------



## Bentley1

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think we _are_ being kind. But no kinder than I was to say, Sophia Loren. Sophia is 80+ and her makeup was so-so (and she's had quite a bit of sun-exposure too).
> 
> I still think a lot of Caitlyn's work is settling, but does she look better or worse than women of her in age _in LA?_  I don't know. (I will say I was there in early July, and was more than a bit offput by the woman who was 70 if she was a day that got into the elevator of a parking garage with my friend and I, and she had boobs to out-do Courtney Stodden, and lips that could suck a watermelon through a straw).
> 
> Given that comparison....meh...Caitlyn isn't so bad, ya know?



I don't know how I would feel if I were to see Sophia bare faced?  I do think she looks nice for an 80 year old, but that's when she's all dolled up on a Red Carpet. Do I think she's beautiful, no.  She looks "nice."  However, I think it would be a different story, for me, if I were to see photos of her au natural.

And, eek, we do have a lot of those type of women in LA.  Well into their 60s and 70s, yet they have boobs and lips that put blow up dolls to shame.  Lot of freaky looking people out here. Not trying to be mean here, but I do think Caitlyn is following this "hollywood/LA trend."


----------



## VickyB

Jayne1 said:


> Still filming.
> 
> http://www.tmz.com



Who is the gal in the pic with her? Is it a stunt?


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Crystalina said:


> I'm sorry, I just cannot understand how a MAN who still has critical MAN parts can get a boob job and some hair extensions and suddenly be called a woman.
> 
> No way, not buying it.




Because sex is what you're born with (genitals, chromosomes, hormones, etc) and gender is what you identify as. Gender identity is what you feel you are. Not your biological parts. And really, who cares what someone else identifies themselves as.


----------



## Tivo

Crystalina said:


> I'm sorry, I just cannot understand how a MAN who still has critical MAN parts can get a boob job and some hair extensions and suddenly be called a woman.
> 
> No way, not buying it.


Yep. Sorry, but I'm not calling a man a woman just because he says that's what he wants to be. I am a woman and I will not pretend that a man and I are the same. No ma'am.


----------



## Hobbsy

Another perspective


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Crystalina said:


> I'm sorry, I just cannot understand how a MAN who still has critical MAN parts can get a boob job and some hair extensions and suddenly be called a woman.
> 
> No way, not buying it.



I agree. Even if Jenner has invasive surgery, it still doesn't change his DNA. I still think there's a chemical imbalance involved (and I'm not trying to be disrespectful) that causes people to identify as the opposite gender. People are free to identify with who they want, but it still doesn't make it legitimate. There's a huge difference in saying *I feel like a woman* compared to *I am a woman.* Can't happen, no matter how much surgery one has.


----------



## lanasyogamama

VickyB said:


> Really???
> Always thought it was obvious that Bruce was wearing make up during KUWTK.



I've never watched the show.  You're right, I'm sure he had some, just not a full face of women's makeup, kwim?


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree. Even if Jenner has invasive surgery, it still doesn't change his DNA. I still think there's a chemical imbalance involved (and I'm not trying to be disrespectful) that causes people to identify as the opposite gender. People are free to identify with who they want, but* it still doesn't make it legitimate*. There's a huge difference in saying *I feel like a woman* compared to *I am a woman.* Can't happen, no matter how much surgery one has.


 

But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."

This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."

If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Hobbsy said:


> P.S. please don't ever associate the death of someone to breaking or spilling something?!





Sassys said:


> When you learn what the word accident means, then you can tell me what I can do. Thank you.



But as Sassys said, it was accidental, without intent to kill. He didn't do it intentionally. There's no intent when someone accidentally breaks something, and neither is there intent to murder when in a car accident. I fail to see how this is so hard to grasp...


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

kitties are cute said:


> because sex is what you're born with (genitals, chromosomes, hormones, etc) and gender is what you identify as. Gender identity is what you feel you are. Not your biological parts. And really, who cares what someone else identifies themselves as.



+1


----------



## Wildflower22

Babydoll Chanel said:


> But as Sassys said, it was accidental, without intent to kill. He didn't do it intentionally. There's no intent when someone accidentally breaks something, and neither is there intent to murder when in a car accident. I fail to see how this is so hard to grasp...




The difference is that when you get behind the wheel of a car, it is your responsibility to drive cautiously. You have a greater responsibility and therefore greater consequence if something like a fatal accident were to happen. Wasn't Bruce on his phone at the time of the accident, and isn't that breaking the law in California?


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

mistikat said:


> But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."
> 
> This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."
> 
> If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.



And +1 to this, too. 

We don't know how it feels to have felt like you were born in the wrong body. Imagine if you always felt you were a male, and identified with masculinity rather than femininity, but you look down and see a female body and society dictating to you what you need to wear, look alike and behave. Imagine being completely unhappy with who you are and seeing other men around you happily living their lives because their biology is aligned with their gender identity.

We still have a long way to go before being tolerant of others who we perceive to be different than the norm, from us, from societal dictates at large. This thread is indicative of that.


----------



## blackkitty4378

mistikat said:


> But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."
> 
> *This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."*
> 
> If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.


----------



## pittcat

Babydoll Chanel said:


> But as Sassys said, it was accidental, without intent to kill. He didn't do it intentionally. There's no intent when someone accidentally breaks something, and neither is there intent to murder when in a car accident. I fail to see how this is so hard to grasp...




People can be charged for that though- involuntary manslaughter.  So based on the law there can be a penalty for an accident.

Eta: I realize Caitlyn will not be charged with that, but I still don't think causing someone's death, accidental or not, should be minimized.


----------



## Tivo

mistikat said:


> But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."
> 
> This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."
> 
> If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.


Feelings are not truth. For something to be legitimate it needs to be based on a foundation of truth. A world run on nothing but feelings leads to chaos, confusion and disaster.


----------



## ByeKitty

mistikat said:


> But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."
> 
> This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."
> 
> If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.



Great post! This thread is something else


----------



## ByeKitty

Tivo said:


> Feelings are not truth. For something to be legitimate it needs to be based on a foundation of truth. A world run on nothing but feelings leads to chaos, confusion and disaster.



But a foundation of truth can be found for nearly everything. That's why there are so many differences in opinions, political views, etc. I think being "male" versus being "female" is not as black and white as some make it out to be.


----------



## mistikat

Tivo said:


> Feelings are not truth. For something to be legitimate it needs to be based on a foundation of truth. A world run on nothing but feelings leads to chaos, confusion and disaster.


 
I'm pretty sure there are many legal, cultural and societal ways in which transgender people are "legitimate." Someone saying here that a person being transgender is not "legitimate" in indeed a feeling and carries no real weight other than to make that person's path harder.


----------



## Tivo

ByeKitty said:


> But a foundation of truth can be found for nearly everything. That's why there are so many differences in opinions, political views, etc. I think being "male" versus being "female" is not as black and white as some make it out to be.


And hence, the confusion.


----------



## queen

mistikat said:


> But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."
> 
> This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."
> 
> If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.



Maybe your comment would seem more legit to me if it was not all over the net and tv regarding Caitlyn's transgender situation.  It appears to me she wants to be the topic of conversation.  It is after all affording her opportunities not available to others.  If one puts themself out there then they need to expect comments.  I care little how anyone presents themselves but that does not make them male or female biology does that.  We need to stay in reality while trying to be compassionate.  PC has really gone too far.  If it is alright for one to do something it is alright for others to comment on it.  Does not mean we have to but don't have your say and expect others not to have theirs.


----------



## queen

Hobbsy said:


> Another perspective



This is a wonderful perspective to the situation.



eta:  I refer to the post about what is really brave and courageous about being a woman.  Not sure why it did not show up.  Sorry.


----------



## Hobbsy

Babydoll Chanel said:


> But as Sassys said, it was accidental, without intent to kill. He didn't do it intentionally. There's no intent when someone accidentally breaks something, and neither is there intent to murder when in a car accident. I fail to see how this is so hard to grasp...



First of all, nothing here is hard to grasp. I never said he should be in jail for causing the accident. If you can read it again I said.....he missed his civil suit court date....that should be followed by an arrest warrant. Lastly, comparing a car accident that involves a death of a human being to breaking something or spilling something is asinine at best. I don't know why that is so hard to grasp? !


----------



## Hobbsy

mistikat said:


> But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."
> 
> This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."
> 
> If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.



Then ...well....maybe just ignore it?! Just say'n.


----------



## Hobbsy

queen said:


> this is a wonderful perspective to the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Eta:  I refer to the post about what is really brave and courageous about being a woman.  Not sure why it did not show up.  Sorry.



+1


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> Maybe your comment would seem more legit to me if it was not all over the net and tv regarding Caitlyn's transgender situation.  It appears to me she wants to be the topic of conversation.  It is after all affording her opportunities not available to others.  If one puts themself out there then they need to expect comments.  I care little how anyone presents themselves but that does not make them male or female biology does that.  We need to stay in reality while trying to be compassionate.  PC has really gone too far.  If it is alright for one to do something it is alright for others to comment on it.  Does not mean we have to but don't have your say and expect others not to have theirs.



I don't understand your last point? It's fine that someone comments, and then it's also fine for others to comment on people's comments, right? Isn't that what discussion forums are for?


----------



## mistikat

queen said:


> Maybe your comment would seem more legit to me if it was not all over the net and tv regarding Caitlyn's transgender situation.  It appears to me she wants to be the topic of conversation.  It is after all affording her opportunities not available to others.  If one puts themself out there then they need to expect comments.  I care little how anyone presents themselves but that does not make them male or female biology does that.  We need to stay in reality while trying to be compassionate.  PC has really gone too far.  If it is alright for one to do something it is alright for others to comment on it.  Does not mean we have to but don't have your say and expect others not to have theirs.


 

Something being all over the net doesn't mean it is (or is not) legitimate. It just means it may be newsworthy or, more often, simply of interest or a passing trend. 

I don't see where I suggested people should be censored or only express views in favour of transgender people. However, there is an oft-expressed sentiment on this thread that what she is doing is not legitimate in some way because someone happens to feel that way. When in fact transgender people have long been considered "legitimate," have legal gender changes from male to female or vice versa, and other accepted means of "legitimizing" a person or cause. 

What I am saying is that whether or not you or I feel that way has no bearing on whether or not in fact it IS legitimate. 

I didn't care for Bruce Jenner, can't say I'm impressed by Caitlyn either. But his choice to actively reveal his decision to transition into becoming a woman is something that needs no legitimization from me. I can dislike her as a person without insisting that who she is as a person is somehow less than. They are not the same thing.


----------



## mistikat

Hobbsy said:


> Then ...well....maybe just ignore it?! Just say'n.


 
I find Caitlyn of far less interest than people's insistence that their views of her life choices are somehow more important than her own.

As far as ignoring, what has my attention is the often very ugly way these views are being expressed. I wouldn't stay silent if someone was yelling racial slurs or bullying someone. This is no different to me.


----------



## usmcwifey

Babydoll Chanel said:


> But as Sassys said, it was accidental, without intent to kill. He didn't do it intentionally. There's no intent when someone accidentally breaks something, and neither is there intent to murder when in a car accident. I fail to see how this is so hard to grasp...




It doesn't matter if it's an accident...his neglect cause another person to die, which is why it would be involuntary manslaughter and not first degree murder....he caused the death, just not intentionally ...he should be held accountable and by what we've been reading he doesn't even show up to hearings.....and not that he has to but his camp has been saying that he has shown up...lies...


----------



## Sassys

Hobbsy said:


> Sassy equates a car accident that killed someone to spilling her pop.



That is NOT what I was saying and you know it. Since youare so perfect aka a saint who never has an accident or makes mistakes, I won't even bother to explain my comment since I and many of us here are clearly not on your perfext non accidental level.


----------



## feerie

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that someone has had a whole identity hoisted on them by society that doesn't match their internal feeling. A LOT of things are "legitimate" in this world... Shall we review some of them here to see how they measure up to our own ideals based on our upbringing? What you think is legitimate is just your own culturally engendered and DISTORTED map of reality. Please don't try to pretend there is One Truth for all people. Unless of course you're that type of person...


----------



## Sassys

mama13drama99 said:


> Now that the surprise of this address to me has passed...
> Sorry (not sorry!), but I'm not moved on behalf of Caitlyn!!!  To begin, you don't know what I have an idea of.  I had a cousin take his own life, and while I could get in to the details as they would certainly be well placed on this thread, I will not because just as your account it has NO IMPACT ON MY OPINION ABOUT Bruce/Caitlyn!  Now, before you or anyone else jumps the gun, I'm not making light of or dismissing your friend, his life, his pain and his decision to end his existence.  Even not knowing you or him, I doesn't feel well to read about him.  It tugged at my heart's strings...suicide does that...I could get into the selfishness of it and how it impacts those left behind but that's neither here nor there for this thread and for the point that EYE (the only way I could emphasize I) made. Next, and here's the crux of the point, Bruce/Caitlyn has purported one thing and so has Caitlyn's die-hards herein, yet has not only miserably failed but has basically walked the same path as the very ones whom are electronic drug for filth in other threads!!!!  So Caitlyn, IMBook, cannot have it both ways, nor can her advocates in this thread. You don't have to like and I ain't trying to convince no one here of anything, yet and still, the fact of the matter is so many herein have touted her to be so great for a, and I definitely can agreed that it's needed, movement...that's Caitlyn really has not shown any regard for...not any sincerely meaningful regard. *I don't give two DUCKS about the speech given at the Espy awards...it was hogwash!*  It sounded great and wonderful, but at the beginning and end of the day of the show Caitlyn and her crew did themselves!  And that's the bottom line.  So miss me with what you perceived as the lack of idea I possess about...and darn thing because yoi don't know me and this right here thread isn't about me (cause someone will be quick to quip that I don't know Bruce/Caitlyn).  Furthermore, and I say this with as much empathy as I would if I knew you, you don't understand the exact pain that your friend Dale endured either!  Your vantage point was one of being his friend; not living his pain.  So please don't play that card again.



You despise and mock Caitlyn over and over, yet you took the time to watch her 10min speech, which equals ratings for ABC, which equals more exposure for her and money in her pocket. So basically you are helping her with what you claim is disgusting about her.


----------



## shiny_things

mama13drama99 said:


> Now that the surprise of this address to me has passed...
> Sorry (not sorry!), but I'm not moved on behalf of Caitlyn!!!  To begin, you don't know what I have an idea of.  I had a cousin take his own life, and while I could get in to the details as they would certainly be well placed on this thread, I will not because just as your account it has NO IMPACT ON MY OPINION ABOUT Bruce/Caitlyn!  Now, before you or anyone else jumps the gun, I'm not making light of or dismissing your friend, his life, his pain and his decision to end his existence.  Even not knowing you or him, I doesn't feel well to read about him.  It tugged at my heart's strings...suicide does that...I could get into the selfishness of it and how it impacts those left behind but that's neither here nor there for this thread and for the point that EYE (the only way I could emphasize I) made. Next, and here's the crux of the point, Bruce/Caitlyn has purported one thing and so has Caitlyn's die-hards herein, yet has not only miserably failed but has basically walked the same path as the very ones whom are electronic drug for filth in other threads!!!!  So Caitlyn, IMBook, cannot have it both ways, nor can her advocates in this thread. You don't have to like and I ain't trying to convince no one here of anything, yet and still, the fact of the matter is so many herein have touted her to be so great for a, and I definitely can agreed that it's needed, movement...that's Caitlyn really has not shown any regard for...not any sincerely meaningful regard. I don't give two DUCKS about the speech given at the Espy awards...it was hogwash!  It sounded great and wonderful, but at the beginning and end of the day of the show Caitlyn and her crew did themselves!  And that's the bottom line.  So miss me with what you perceived as the lack of idea I possess about...and darn thing because yoi don't know me and this right here thread isn't about me (cause someone will be quick to quip that I don't know Bruce/Caitlyn).  Furthermore, and I say this with as much empathy as I would if I knew you, you don't understand the exact pain that your friend Dale endured either!  Your vantage point was one of being his friend; not living his pain.  So please don't play that card again.



I mean no offence by this, but is English your first language?


----------



## Hobbsy

Sassys said:


> That is NOT what I was saying and you know it. Since youare so perfect aka a saint who never has an accident or makes mistakes, I won't even bother to explain my comment since I and many of us here are clearly not on your perfext non accidental level.



It's exactly what you typed.


----------



## Sassys

feerie said:


> I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that someone has had a whole identity hoisted on them by society that doesn't match their internal feeling. A LOT of things are "legitimate" in this world... Shall we review some of them here to see how they measure up to our own ideals based on our upbringing? What you think is legitimate is just your own culturally engendered and DISTORTED map of reality. Please don't try to pretend there is One Truth for all people. Unless of course you're that type of person...



Oh, but people here NEVER have accidents or make mistakes so we are not on their level. Therefore we will never understand their level of thinking.


----------



## Sassys

Hobbsy said:


> It's exactly what you typed.



I suggest you google the word accident.


----------



## Sassys

shiny_things said:


> I mean no offence by this, but is English your first language?



Okay, Im glad it wasn't just me who couldn't read that.


----------



## Hobbsy

Sassys said:


> I suggest you google the word accident.



I don't have to, nor will I ever equate the accidental death of a human being to breaking something or spilling something.


----------



## Hobbsy

shiny_things said:


> I mean no offence by this, but is English your first language?



It's offense. Nothing hard to understand about it at all.


----------



## shiny_things

Hobbsy said:


> It's offense. Nothing hard to understand about it at all.



I'm British, we use 'offence'. It's just the sentence structure reminds me of how people tend to form sentences when English is not their first language. I found it difficult to read is all. If I know whether a poster has it as their first language, it makes for better understanding, is all.

I meant no offence by the question.


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> I don't have to, nor will I ever equate the accidental death of a human being to breaking something or spilling something.



You keep going on about her "equating" the two but she really didn't. She summed up examples of accidents. Yes, accidents can be many things: it can be someone tripping and falling on the grass, or it can be someone tripping and falling off a cliff. Extremely different in seriousness because of the outcome, but both accidents. Of course that's not _equating_ the two situations.


----------



## blackkitty4378

This thread is great. I'm literally &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;. And thank you to a lot of you who are saying what I don't have the strength to articulate anymore, and couldn't have said better myself!


----------



## labelwhore04

I have no more energy to respond to ignorant comments here. Whenever i see one i just shake my head and keep scrolling. Theres no point in trying to change the minds of people who have those beliefs, its like talking to the Duggars. Some people are willfully ignorant.


----------



## Hobbsy

labelwhore04 said:


> I have no more energy to respond to ignorant comments here. Whenever i see one i just shake my head and keep scrolling. Theres no point in trying to change the minds of people who have those beliefs, its like talking to the Duggars. Some people are willfully ignorant.



So true!



ByeKitty said:


> You keep going on about her "equating" the two but she really didn't. She summed up examples of accidents. Yes, accidents can be many things: it can be someone tripping and falling on the grass, or it can be someone tripping and falling off a cliff. Extremely different in seriousness because of the outcome, but both accidents. Of course that's not _equating_ the two situations.



You don't have to explain to me what an accident is, but thank you.



shiny_things said:


> I'm British, we use 'offence'. It's just the sentence structure reminds me of how people tend to form sentences when English is not their first language. I found it difficult to read is all. If I know whether a poster has it as their first language, it makes for better understanding, is all.
> 
> I meant no offence by the question.



Thanks for explaining that. I have been to the UK and although I would love to, I haven't spent enough time there to learn nuances in words. &#9786;


----------



## ByeKitty

Hobbsy said:


> You don't have to explain to me what an accident is, but thank you.



You kind of sound like a broken record. Of course I don't _have_ to do anything, but I think it was in order here.


----------



## Jayne1

Wildflower22 said:


> The difference is that when you get behind the wheel of a car, it is your responsibility to drive cautiously. You have a greater responsibility and therefore greater consequence if something like a fatal accident were to happen. *Wasn't Bruce on his phone at the time of the accident, and isn't that breaking the law in California?*


No, he wasn't on the phone, what people saw may have been a cigarette&#8230; but he sure had stuff on his mind, brokering all those media deals, apparently he just got new boobs in preparation for what was to come. I'd say he was most definitely preoccupied.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

mistikat said:


> But ... it doesn't have to be legitimate to you. Who are you to say what someone else is or is not? Who am I to do that? No transgender person has to prove to me what they feel, believe, present as. I have no right to judge or "legitimize" them and neither do you. No more so than I would to scan your life choices and pronounce them "not legitimate."
> 
> This thread has turned into a transgender Green Eggs and Ham where the same people say over and over and over how much they disagree with Caitlyn's life choice as far as being transgender. "I do not like her (fill in the blanks) Sam I am."
> 
> If I dislike something/someone, I don't spend any energy tracking what they do, commenting on it, etc. I just ... well ... ignore it.




Great post


----------



## BPC

I'm curious as to why Jenner wasn't charged with involuntary manslaughter. Anyone know?


----------



## Grace123

I'm surprised that Jenner wasn't advised to attend the court hearing, if for nothing more than positive public opinion.


----------



## Hobbsy

ByeKitty said:


> You kind of sound like a broken record. Of course I don't _have_ to do anything, but I think it was in order here.



No, it wasnt in order. Maybe you could just go ahead and either ignore me or put me on ignore? Then you won't have to assume anything about me. Thank you. &#128522;


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

feerie said:


> I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that someone has had a whole identity hoisted on them by society that doesn't match their internal feeling. A LOT of things are "legitimate" in this world... Shall we review some of them here to see how they measure up to our own ideals based on our upbringing? What you think is legitimate is just your own culturally engendered and DISTORTED map of reality. Please don't try to pretend there is One Truth for all people. Unless of course you're that type of person...




Another great post, the ignorance on transgender-ism here is ridiculously high. This doesn't even have to do with Bruce/Caitlyn. People making these comments are lucky they feel comfortable in their own skin as what they were born as and have no one telling them what they feel is invalid.


----------



## Hobbsy

Grace123 said:


> I'm surprised that Jenner wasn't advised to attend the court hearing, if for nothing more than positive public opinion.



Exactly! His attorney must think he's above the law also.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I was looking at stills from the new show and you can tell they spent a lot of time in the editing department smoothing out her face.  It looks so unreal


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

mistikat said:


> Something being all over the net doesn't mean it is (or is not) legitimate. It just means it may be newsworthy or, more often, simply of interest or a passing trend.
> 
> I don't see where I suggested people should be censored or only express views in favour of transgender people. However, there is an oft-expressed sentiment on this thread that what she is doing is not legitimate in some way because someone happens to feel that way. When in fact transgender people have long been considered "legitimate," have legal gender changes from male to female or vice versa, and other accepted means of "legitimizing" a person or cause.
> 
> What I am saying is that whether or not you or I feel that way has no bearing on whether or not in fact it IS legitimate.
> 
> I didn't care for Bruce Jenner, can't say I'm impressed by Caitlyn either. But his choice to actively reveal his decision to transition into becoming a woman is something that needs no legitimization from me. I can dislike her as a person without insisting that who she is as a person is somehow less than. They are not the same thing.



Great, great post...



mistikat said:


> I find Caitlyn of far less interest than people's insistence that their views of her life choices are somehow more important than her own.
> 
> As far as ignoring, what has my attention is the often very ugly way these views are being expressed. I wouldn't stay silent if someone was yelling racial slurs or bullying someone. This is no different to me.



And this one too. As I said earlier, anything "different", be it gender/race/sexuality is deemed less than andis subject to othering. It's no business of anyone's to judge how people choose to live their own lives, as long as they aren't harming others.  



feerie said:


> I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand that someone has had a whole identity hoisted on them by society that doesn't match their internal feeling. A LOT of things are "legitimate" in this world... Shall we review some of them here to see how they measure up to our own ideals based on our upbringing? What you think is legitimate is just your own culturally engendered and DISTORTED map of reality. Please don't try to pretend there is One Truth for all people. Unless of course you're that type of person...



And this 



blackkitty4378 said:


> This thread is great. I'm literally &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;. And thank you to a lot of you who are saying what I don't have the strength to articulate anymore, and couldn't have said better myself!



Aaaaaaaaaand this!


----------



## bag-mania

BPC said:


> I'm curious as to why Jenner wasn't charged with involuntary manslaughter. Anyone know?



I don't know why but it isn't unusual. It's the same with ordinary people so it isn't just because Jenner is a celebrity. We had a case where I live where a 19-year-old girl pulled her car out into traffic right in front of a motorcyclist and he was killed. She was on her cell phone at the time. She was clearly at fault but I don't think she had to do anything more than pay a small fine even though she caused a death.


----------



## Crystalina

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Because sex is what you're born with (genitals, chromosomes, hormones, etc) and gender is what you identify as. Gender identity is what you feel you are. Not your biological parts. And really, who cares what someone else identifies themselves as.




I care because it's just WRONG.

A dog can't be a cat. They aren't the same and never can be. 

PERIOD.


----------



## Crystalina

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree. Even if Jenner has invasive surgery, it still doesn't change his DNA. I still think there's a chemical imbalance involved (and I'm not trying to be disrespectful) that causes people to identify as the opposite gender. People are free to identify with who they want, but it still doesn't make it legitimate. There's a huge difference in saying *I feel like a woman* compared to *I am a woman.* Can't happen, no matter how much surgery one has.




I agree that it's likely a chemical imbalance.

And you are 100% correct. Maybe Bruce *feels* like a woman, but he *is* a man.

I do not see how this is even debatable to anyone.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Crystalina said:


> I care because it's just WRONG.
> 
> A dog can't be a cat. They aren't the same and never can be.
> 
> PERIOD.




Calm...

Just because you say it's wrong (based on your opinion on what makes a man a man and a woman a woman), doesn't make it fact. Also, what Caitlyn or any other trans person identifies as has absolutely no ill effects on you or anybody else, for that matter, so I I guess I still don't understand why you care so much.


----------



## shiny_things

Transgenderism is not a chemical imbalance! Transgender people often have perfectly normal brain chemistry and are as normal as anyone else. The onlything that differs is that their hormones and body do not match what is in their head, what they identify as. The chemical imbalance thing is a complete myth.

Honestly, the amount of ignorant, ill informed nonsense on this thread is staggering!


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Crystalina said:


> I care because it's just WRONG.
> 
> A dog can't be a cat. They aren't the same and never can be.
> 
> PERIOD.



Yikes. 



Kitties Are Cute said:


> Calm...
> 
> Just because you say it's wrong (based on your opinion on what makes a man a man and a woman a woman), doesn't make it fact. Also, what Caitlyn or any other trans person identifies as has absolutely no ill effects on you or anybody else, for that matter, so I I guess I still don't understand why you care so much.



Yes to all of this. Live and let live.


----------



## Crystalina

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Calm...
> 
> Just because you say it's wrong (based on your opinion on what makes a man a man and a woman a woman), doesn't make it fact. Also, what Caitlyn or any other trans person identifies as has absolutely no ill effects on you or anybody else, for that matter, so I I guess I still don't understand why you care so much.




Lol.

Sorry, you are just wrong.


----------



## Hobbsy

shiny_things said:


> Transgenderism is not a chemical imbalance! Transgender people often have perfectly normal brain chemistry and are as normal as anyone else. The onlything that differs is that their hormones and body do not match what is in their head, what they identify as. The chemical imbalance thing is a complete myth.
> 
> Honestly, the amount of ignorant, ill informed nonsense on this thread is staggering!



Chemical imbalance is not a myth. Transgender people can have chemical and/or hormonal imbalances.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Crystalina said:


> Lol.
> 
> Sorry, you are just wrong.




Dang girl. I won't argue with you anymore because it is pointless for both of us. But since you say I am wrong, I will say YOU are wrong because you do not understand gender and sex. And you are coming off as extremely hateful.

(Just my opinion, of course)


----------



## mama13drama99

mistikat said:


> Something being all over the net doesn't mean it is (or is not) legitimate. It just means it may be newsworthy or, more often, simply of interest or a passing trend.
> 
> I don't see where I suggested people should be censored or only express views in favour of transgender people. However, there is an oft-expressed sentiment on this thread that what she is doing is not legitimate in some way because someone happens to feel that way. When in fact transgender people have long been considered "legitimate," have legal gender changes from male to female or vice versa, and other accepted means of "legitimizing" a person or cause.
> 
> What I am saying is that whether or not you or I feel that way has no bearing on whether or not in fact it IS legitimate.
> 
> I didn't care for Bruce Jenner, can't say I'm impressed by Caitlyn either. But his choice to actively reveal his decision to transition into becoming a woman is something that needs no legitimization from me. I can dislike her as a person without insisting that who she is as a person is somehow less than. They are not the same thing.




It'd be nice if others here could understand your last paragraph.  It goes both ways.  For me, I not only don't only care for Bruce or Caitlyn, I don't think Caitlyn is pretty (could give a rats butt about age), don't think Caitlyn slays, nor that Caitlyn is a hero.  Not the same as transgender a people and accept them doesn't need awareness!  I can believe that the transgender community needs protections, equal rights, and acceptance WITHOUT thinking that Bruce/Caitlyn is the best thing for the movement since sliced bread!


----------



## ForeverYoung87

BPC said:


> I'm curious as to why Jenner wasn't charged with involuntary manslaughter. Anyone know?




"Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:

Someone was killed as a result of act by the defendant.
The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.
Charges of involuntary manslaughter often come in the wake of a deadly car crash caused by a motorist under the influence of alcohol or other drugs. While the motorist never intended to kill anyone, his or her negligence in operating a car while impaired is enough to meet the requirements of the charge."

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/involuntary-manslaughter-overview.html#sthash.gWl3SiAd.dpuf

I don't think Caitlyn acted with a reckless disregard or knew her conduct was a threat to others lives. We are all guilty of taking our eyes off the road for a few seconds consider yourself lucky to avoid an accident when you do.  Police said she wasn't on her phone, she wasn't under the influence of drugs/alcohol at the end of the day it's just careless driving


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

I give up on this thread for now. The ignorance and hate and bigoted comments on trans people are too much.


----------



## mama13drama99

Hobbsy said:


> No, it wasnt in order. Maybe you could just go ahead and either ignore me or put me on ignore? Then you won't have to assume anything about me. Thank you. [emoji4]




Love it!!!


----------



## Crystalina

Kitties Are Cute said:


> Dang girl. I won't argue with you anymore because it is pointless for both of us. But since you say I am wrong, I will say YOU are wrong because you do not understand gender and sex. And you are coming off as extremely hateful.
> 
> (Just my opinion, of course)




Not hateful at all. 

I don't believe that you understand gender and sex. 

Your philosophy is brushing a serious mental illness under the rug. Shameful.


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

Crystalina said:


> Not hateful at all.
> 
> I don't believe that you understand gender and sex.
> 
> Your philosophy is brushing a serious mental illness under the rug. Shameful.




Serious mental illness? Shameful in being OPEN MINDED? And accepting? Then I'll take your version of shameful over ignorant any day, all day.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Crystalina said:


> It's not ill informed at all.
> 
> Transgendered people have a very serious mental disorder.
> 
> They should be treated with medicine, not hailed for having "courage."
> 
> If Bruce had courage, he would have shown up in court. But, HE is s coward.



The American Psychological Association declared that it's not a mental disorder a few years ago. I'll side with the opinion of people who have studied the human brain for years


----------



## shiny_things

Crystalina said:


> It's not ill informed at all.
> 
> Transgendered people have a very serious mental disorder.
> 
> They should be treated with medicine, not hailed for having "courage."
> 
> If Bruce had courage, he would have shown up in court. But, HE is s coward.



Actually most countries do not class it as a mental health condition at all.

Many, many studies have shown very little evidence of chemical imbalance being involved.

You are just being flat out transphobic now!

Should gay people be treated with medication too, seeing as that's different to the norm and also wrongly believed yo be a chemical imbalance by ignorant people.

I can't with the attitudes in this thread.

How do transgendered people impact your life so much that you can say such hurtful things? SMDH.


----------



## Crystalina

ForeverYoung87 said:


> The American Psychological Association declared that it's not a mental disorder a few years ago. I'll side with the opinion of people who have studied the human brain for years




Those people have an agenda!

xx


----------



## queen

I am kind of weary of the less than.  You seem to miss my point:  I do not care that Jenner is transgender.  I have met a transgendered person.  Treated them no different than anyone else.  But they do not deserve "special" treatment either.  This country was built by people showing personal responsibility and taking care of them selves if they were physically and mentally able.  We have turned into a bunch of entitled people who demand to have their fair share of anybody elses's.  This is just a conversation and all may express themselves.  Why is no one taking up for the Duggars?  Because you do not happen to like their beliefs.  Works both ways.  Live and let live.  You feel Jenner was treated "less than"  I believe Jenner has been crowned.  What I think makes no impact on the issue but I simply choose to express myself like you and others here.  No harm.  No foul.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Crystalina said:


> Those people have an agenda!
> 
> x



Medical professionals have an agenda? Instead of you know, helping people with mental and physical ailments? What 'agenda' is this?


----------



## DC-Cutie

I have a question:


If I'm watching a clip about Bruce, say from the Olympics (when she was still Bruce) do I say 'bruce' or 'caitlyn'?


just curious


----------



## pursegrl12

Crystalina said:


> It's not ill informed at all.
> 
> Transgendered people have a very serious mental disorder.
> 
> *They should be treated with medicine, not hailed for having "courage."*
> 
> If Bruce had courage, he would have shown up in court. But, HE is s coward.




I got no dog in this race but DAMN......

***walks away slowly***


----------



## DC-Cutie

pursegrl12 said:


> I got no dog in this race but DAMN......
> 
> ***walks away slowly***


 
I'm behind you...  I came in asking a legit question, but I'm side-eying the heck out of that response


----------



## littlerock

DC-Cutie said:


> I have a question:
> 
> 
> If I'm watching a clip about Bruce, say from the Olympics (when she was still Bruce) do I say 'bruce' or 'caitlyn'?
> 
> 
> just curious



To me, I think it's appropriate either way. I think it's natural to refer to Bruce as 'Bruce' when he was, in fact, living as "Bruce". I also think it's acceptable if someone wants to refer to Caitlyn as 'Caitlyn' for everything (*past and present) from here on out. I don't think that either is wrong.


----------



## mistikat

I was watching the Pan Am decathlon events and it is really an impressive feat to win. Takes a ton of stamina and prowess - really amazing. It's easy to forget that about Caitlyn's past in all the fuss about what is going on now.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Hobbsy said:


> Not very nice.



There is very little in this thread that is "nice."


The sport of "willful ignorance" gleefully paraded is what makes me resist engaging here. It's just not worth it to talk in circles with those who protect their ignorance like their most prized possession. It's a sad insight into the world we live in and the joy that comes from tearing others apart.


----------



## sabrunka

*enters thread*






























*leaves*


----------



## littlerock

Hobbsy said:


> Not nice!



Oh, I thought we were all entitled to, and being honest about, our opinions. My bad.. I guess people are only allowed to challenge the mental health of transgenders in this thread. And not the sick, archaic thinking of others. Got it. :salute:


----------



## DC-Cutie

it's 5 o'clock somewhere, so some of ya'll need a drink or 3....


----------



## sabrunka

DC-Cutie said:


> it's 5 o'clock somewhere, so some of ya'll need a drink or 3....



I need to have 5 to even deal with what I've read .


----------



## Jayne1

ForeverYoung87 said:


> "Three elements must be satisfied in order for someone to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter:
> 
> Someone was killed as a result of act by the defendant.
> The act either was inherently dangerous to others or done with reckless disregard for human life.
> The defendant knew or should have known his or her conduct was a threat to the lives of others.
> Charges of involuntary manslaughter often come in the wake of a deadly car crash caused by a motorist under the influence of alcohol or other drugs. While the motorist never intended to kill anyone, his or her negligence in operating a car while impaired is enough to meet the requirements of the charge."
> 
> http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimina...nslaughter-overview.html#sthash.gWl3SiAd.dpuf
> 
> I don't think Caitlyn acted with a reckless disregard or knew her conduct was a threat to others lives. We are all guilty of taking our eyes off the road for a few seconds consider yourself lucky to avoid an accident when you do.  Police said she wasn't on her phone, she wasn't under the influence of drugs/alcohol at the end of the day it's just careless driving



Interesting&#8230; it seems you can be so inattentive and preoccupied and not be charged if you smash into a few cars and cause a death.

Well, that's the law, so be it.



DC-Cutie said:


> I have a question:
> 
> 
> If I'm watching a clip about Bruce, say from the Olympics (when she was still Bruce) do I say 'bruce' or 'caitlyn'?
> 
> 
> just curious



I say Bruce in the past tense and Cait in the present.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Crystalina said:


> It's not ill informed at all.
> 
> Transgendered people have a very serious mental disorder.
> 
> They should be treated with medicine, not hailed for having "courage."
> 
> If Bruce had courage, he would have shown up in court. But, HE is s coward.







Hobbsy said:


> Chemical imbalance is not a myth. Transgender people can have chemical and/or hormonal imbalances.




Honestly the things you guys have been saying is straight up wrong. Rude, hurtful, and sad. 

You guys are saying the very words that kill hundreds of people all over the world every single day. LGBT people commit suicide and get murdered because of people like you and the ignorance you guys spread all over the world. 

But take my words with a grain of salt since I forgot to take my mental disability medication today. 

Good day.


----------



## Hobbsy

Yoshi1296 said:


> Honestly the things you guys have been saying is straight up wrong. Rude, hurtful, and sad.
> 
> You guys are saying the very words that kill hundreds of people all over the world every single day. LGBT people commit suicide and get murdered because of people like you and the ignorance you guys spread all over the world.
> 
> But take my words with a grain of salt since I forgot to take my mental disability medication today.
> 
> Good day.



What I've said is not anything rude or "wrong." Do some reading on Transgenderism.  Because you come into a conversation and say I'm wrong doesn't make it so.


----------



## feerie

My post was deleted for calling out hate speech but somehow those comments are still here? How interesting. Maybe the moderator would like to explain, because I'm confused. 

To "Not Very Nice" LOL, it's so very nice of people to contribute to the suffering of those who don't fit in to our society BECAUSE of people like you. 

To moderator: there are many conflicting opinions here, it's a discussion board. I admire your vigilance in making sure people can't sort out their differences.


----------



## feerie

littlerock said:


> Oh, I thought we were all entitled to, and being honest about, our opinions. My bad.. I guess people are only allowed to challenge the mental health of transgenders in this thread. And not the sick, archaic thinking of others. Got it. :salute:




Someone who said it better than I did.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Hobbsy said:


> What I've said is not anything rude or "wrong." Do some reading on Transgenderism.  Because you come into a conversation and say I'm wrong doesn't make it so.



Perhaps she is transgender and finds your comments rude and wrong? It's possible.

This is not a "they" issue. This is a human issue and you never know who you are talking to on the internet.


----------



## Hobbsy

JetSetGo! said:


> Perhaps she is transgender and finds your comments rude and wrong.
> 
> This is not a "they" issue. This is a human issue and you never know who you are talking to on the internet.



Perhaps she is. Still doesn't make what I say incorrect. Go do some reading in the transgender community rooms or online.


----------



## JetSetGo!

feerie said:


> My post was deleted for calling out hate speech but somehow those comments are still here? How interesting. Maybe the moderator would like to explain, because I'm confused.
> 
> To "Not Very Nice" LOL, it's so very nice of people to contribute to the suffering of those who don't fit in to our society BECAUSE of people like you.
> 
> To moderator: there are many conflicting opinions here, it's a discussion board. I admire your vigilance in making sure people can't sort out their differences.



While we do allow varying opinions, we do not allow members to make direct insults at other members. It can be a fine line sometimes. We appreciate your adherence to this and your understanding.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Hobbsy said:


> What I've said is not anything rude or "wrong." Do some reading on Transgenderism.  Because you come into a conversation and say I'm wrong doesn't make it so.




LMFAO You're telling ME to do some reading? Honey, I am not transgender but I have a sibling that is and I will fight to my death for her. You may not be wrong to yourself and to others that agree with you. But you are wrong to me.


----------



## prettyprincess

Yoshi1296 said:


> Honestly the things you guys have been saying is straight up wrong. Rude, hurtful, and sad.
> 
> You guys are saying the very words that kill hundreds of people all over the world every single day. LGBT people commit suicide and get murdered because of people like you and the ignorance you guys spread all over the world.
> 
> But take my words with a grain of salt since I forgot to take my mental disability medication today.
> 
> Good day.



Its not a mental illness for someone to believe they're something they're not, to pump their bodies full of hormones, and then mutilate their bodies to fit the image in their heads? .


----------



## feerie

Hobbsy said:


> Perhaps she is. Still doesn't make what I say incorrect. Go do some reading in the transgender community rooms or online.




Is showing respect really so difficult for you?


----------



## JetSetGo!

Hobbsy said:


> Perhaps she is. Still doesn't make what I say incorrect. Go do some reading in the transgender community rooms or online.



Because everything you read online and in community rooms is true? 
Yeah, no thanks.


----------



## Yoshi1296

Hobbsy said:


> Perhaps she is. Still doesn't make what I say incorrect. Go do some reading in the transgender community rooms or online.




Honestly, after hearing your opinions it seems like you're the one that needs to do some reading on this topic, not me. You think you know SO MUCH about it, but after hearing your hurtful comments you really don't. AT ALL.


----------



## Jeanek

If someone believes that being a transgendered person is immoral or wrong, they have every right to believe that. Arguing with them isn't going to change their mind. Just good old plain education and exposure/time

However, the simple fact is there is no diagnostic code in the DSM to treat this so called "disorder. " I've worked with a person who was born a male and identified as a female. She is a lovely person and went through hell every day. It's so painful for me to hear people say these hurtful things and they have no idea that they're talking about real people with real lives and struggles that have real people who love them. These words affect real people. Please think before you type!


----------



## JetSetGo!

*Okay, you guys. This thread is not about questioning the authenticity and opinion of the transgender community. It is about a single celebrity. 

Talk about Cait all day. Pontificate the validity of trangenderism elsewhere.*


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> I was looking at stills from the new show and you can tell they spent a lot of time in the editing department smoothing out her face.  It looks so unreal



I find the BH Housewives show uses a lot of smoothing and overly warm filters, so  you don't see all the sun damage, but the use of artificial filters and manipulation is very distracting to me.  The women look so unnatural.  I guess they will use the same technique on Cait ?


----------



## mistikat

prettyprincess said:


> Its not a mental illness for someone to believe they're something they're not, to pump their bodies full of hormones, and then mutilate their bodies to fit the image in their heads? .


 
So by this reasoning, if post-menopausal/andropausal men and women take hormones because they believe it makes them feel younger are they suffering from mental illness? Or if people get breast implants or reduce their nose size, or pin back large ears or fix a cleft palate - do they qualify as mentally ill because they are changing their bodies to fit the image in their heads?

Or how about people who inject insulin because their bodies don't produce enough? Because by your thinking they are "meant" to be diabetic, and taking a substance to change that is wrong/mental illness in that they aren't accepting who they are but trying to fit the (healthy) image in their heads.


----------



## Hobbsy

Yoshi1296 said:


> LMFAO You're telling ME to do some reading? Honey, I am not transgender but I have a sibling that is and I will fight to my death for her. You may not be wrong to yourself and to others that agree with you. But you are wrong to me.



The only thing I have said is transgenders have a chemical and/or hormonal imbalance.  That is a fact I have read on and in transgender community pages. I'm sorry if that offends you, it's not meant to!


----------



## JetSetGo!

JetSetGo! said:


> *Okay, you guys. This thread is not about questioning the authenticity and opinion of the transgender community. It is about a single celebrity.
> 
> Talk about Cait all day. Pontificate the validity of trangenderism elsewhere.*


*
Further OT posts will be deleted to keep this thread on topic.

Caitlyn Jenner*


----------



## mistikat

First time Kylie saw Caitlyn was on camera for her new show (though this is Perez Hilton so make of it what you will):

http://perezhilton.com/2015-07-22-c...-met-facetime-i-am-cait-premiere#.VbKOYnkcTcs


_I Am Cait_ premieres Sunday July 26, but we have all the deets for you from a special advance screening

And there was so much to unwrap!

One of the most real moments on the reality show occurred when *Kylie Jenner* saw *Caitlyn Jenner* for the first time!

In a scripted TV show, that would have been the moment she comes down the stairs and all the kids look up at how beautiful she is&#8230; but this was _reality_ TV!
What really happened was Kylie was feeling "kind of loopy" after leaving the dentist and wanted to get in a little FaceTime with her dad!

When Caitlyn answered What do you think?

 the video call she was worried. She told her daughter:
"I don't want to scare you."​But Kylie was kool as a kukumber! She said:
"You're not scaring me. You look pretty!"​Awwww! How adorable!

Later, Kylie met Cait in person and ran to give her a big hug, saying:
"Hey, Pretty!"​Kylie gave her dad some teal-colored hair extensions &#8212; and helped her to weave them in for the first time! What a perfect modern family moment!

Caitlyn thought so too! She said:What do you think?
"Isn't this more fun than sitting around talking about sports?"​Kylie agreed:What do you think?

"Or playing golf."​To which Cait replied:What do you think?

"Well, I wouldn't go quite that far."​This fam is as cute &#8212; and as close &#8212; as ever! And to think, Cait was worried what her daughters would think of her.


----------



## too through

I live in a very small rural village in upstate NY - but the people here are far kinder and more open than so many on this thread.  It really is sad that so many have such hate in their hearts.  I am going to go feed the deer, rabbits, and groundhogs in my backyard because that feeds my soul.


----------



## Megs

This thread is about Caitlyn Jenner. I understand that speaking of a transgender person brings up an array of opinions, but I have always said our forum is here as a fun and safe place. There are plenty of sites out there for people to be nasty to one another, I do not want that for tPF.

While I believe people have different opinions, I will not have this thread and forum turn into a breeding ground of negativity. I will remove posts that are instigating drama and hope we can all, no matter what our opinions, coexist in this thread.


----------



## VickyB

JetSetGo! said:


> *Okay, you guys. This thread is not about questioning the authenticity and opinion of the transgender community. It is about a single celebrity.
> 
> Talk about Cait all day. Pontificate the validity of trangenderism elsewhere.*



Thank you!


----------



## Jayne1

mistikat said:


> First time Kylie saw Caitlyn was on camera for her new show (though this is Perez Hilton so make of it what you will):
> 
> http://perezhilton.com/2015-07-22-c...-met-facetime-i-am-cait-premiere#.VbKOYnkcTcs
> 
> 
> _I Am Cait_ premieres Sunday July 26, but we have all the deets for you from a special advance screening
> 
> And there was so much to unwrap!
> 
> One of the most real moments on the reality show occurred when *Kylie Jenner* saw *Caitlyn Jenner* for the first time!
> 
> In a scripted TV show, that would have been the moment she comes down the stairs and all the kids look up at how beautiful she is but this was _reality_ TV!
> *What really happened was Kylie was feeling "kind of loopy" after leaving the dentist and wanted to get in a little FaceTime with her dad!*
> 
> This fam is as cute  and as close  as ever! And to think, Cait was worried what her daughters would think of her.


:giggles:


----------



## VickyB

:back2topic:


----------



## ByeKitty

I just can't.


----------



## bag-mania

(.. quote removed by a moderator)

In other Caitlyn news...


> Eminem's freestyle rap slurs Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> Rapper Eminem, whose lyrics have tended to court controversy over the course of his career, performed a freestyle rap on Thursday's _Sway in the Morning_ show that contained a transphobic slur against Caitlyn Jenner.
> 
> 
> &#8220;I invented prick, and that&#8217;s a true statement, I see the (expletive) in you, Caitlyn / Keep the pistol tucked like Bruce Jenner&#8217;s  (expletive),&#8221; he rapped. After pausing he also added: &#8220;No disrespect  though, not at all, no pun intended, that took a lot of balls.&#8221;
> 
> 
> The rap also contained shots at Donald ***** and Bill Cosby, as well as references to violence against Miley Cyrus. &#8220;I&#8217;m (expletive) worse than Donald ***** / On Lexapro in Mexico across from a Texaco in a McDonald&#8217;s drunk."
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...-freestyle-rap-slurs-caitlyn-jenner/30609997/


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Jayne1 said:


> Interesting it seems you can be so inattentive and preoccupied and not be charged if you smash into a few cars and cause a death.
> 
> Well, that's the law, so be it.




Had she been texting or under the influence she probably would be in bigger trouble. Brandy wasn't charged with anything either but had to deal with multiple civil suits.


----------



## shoegal

I think the argument that they weren't close to her (the deceased) is interesting - you know given his relationships with his other kids during their formative years.


----------



## Encore Hermes

She was towing a trailer in the left lane. 
Imagine the chain of events had she been towing in the right lane, where one is supposed to tow. I believe it is in the CA vehicle codes


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DC-Cutie said:


> I have a question:
> 
> 
> If I'm watching a clip about Bruce, say from the Olympics (when she was still Bruce) do I say 'bruce' or 'caitlyn'?
> 
> 
> just curious



Say whatever you're comfortable with. God knows you can't please everybody.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

JetSetGo! said:


> *Okay, you guys. This thread is not about questioning the authenticity and opinion of the transgender community. It is about a single celebrity.
> 
> Talk about Cait all day. Pontificate the validity of trangenderism elsewhere.*



Thank you


----------



## Sasha2012

She's building up an impressive wardrobe of stylish pieces - so no doubt Caitlyn Jenner is excited to model them all.

The reality star showcased summer casual chic on Wednesday while filming her E! docu-series I Am Cait at the Four Seasons in Westlake Village.

The 65-year-old strolled through the hotel's Japanese gardens with pals Jeni and Didi looking happier than ever. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ye-sunglasses-filming-Cait.html#ixzz3gqtIMInF


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Say whatever you're comfortable with. God knows you can't please everybody.




Ain't that the doggone truth. Especially in this prickly thread. Lawd. Everything is picked apart like folks are performing brain surgery on other people's posts. 

I call him Bruce when referring to the days he was Bruce. For ex: he won the Olympics as a man, not a woman, so I'm not going to say "Caitlyn won the Olympics." That just would not make any sense. When he impregnated multiple women with half a dozen kids, he was clearly a man, a father, a husband at that time, So, Bruce. Etc...

And I'd really love to know if the K's now refer to her as Caitlyn? Like does PMK really call her Caitlyn/Cait now? I just don't see it.


----------



## littlerock

Bentley1 said:


> Ain't that the doggone truth. Especially in this prickly thread. Lawd. Everything is picked apart like folks are performing brain surgery on other people's posts.
> 
> I call him Bruce when referring to the days he was Bruce. For ex: he won the Olympics as a man, not a woman, so I'm not going to say "Caitlyn won the Olympics." That just would not make any sense. When he impregnated multiple women with half a dozen kids, he was clearly a man, a father, a husband at that time, So, Bruce. Etc...
> 
> And I'd really love to know if the K's now refer to her as Caitlyn? Like does PMK really call her Caitlyn/Cait now? I just don't see it.



I don't think anyone has ever even remotely suggested that it is in bad taste to call him Bruce when he was living as a man. Not one person. Can you show me where someone is saying we can't ever refer to Bruce as Bruce before he transitioned? I'm genuinely curious.


----------



## krissa

littlerock said:


> I don't think anyone has ever even remotely suggested that it is in bad taste to call him Bruce when he was living as a man. Not one person. Can you show me where someone is saying we can't ever refer to Bruce as Bruce before he transitioned? I'm genuinely curious.



I don't believe it was here, but GLAAD guidelines say you would call Refer to Caitlyn having won the Olympic Games. For me personally, id rather not rewrite history since Caitlyn didn't exist as a public figure until 2015.


----------



## littlerock

krissa said:


> I don't believe it was here, but GLAAD guidelines say you would call Refer to Caitlyn having won the Olympic Games. For me personally, id rather not rewrite history since Caitlyn didn't exist as a public figure until 2015.



Got it! I just wasn't sure if that was going on here because I've been following a long and haven't seen it. Thank you for explaining!


----------



## Bentley1

littlerock said:


> I don't think anyone has ever even remotely suggested that it is in bad taste to call him Bruce when he was living as a man. Not one person. Can you show me where someone is saying we can't ever refer to Bruce as Bruce before he transitioned? I'm genuinely curious.




Uh, did I say anyone did? I'm confused as to why your post seems to have an aggressive undertone to it? But, it's par for the course in this thread lately. 
I am responding to the posts in regards to what one would call him past tense and I clarified why I would do one over the other and why it made sense to ME to do it that way. 

As for anyone saying we "can't" call him Bruce past tense, I wouldn't be surprised if, in fact, someone did actually say that. People have been told what they can and can't post about this person for the past month or two and some of the stuff is beyond petty. So, I bet that gem is hidden somewhere amongst the thousands of posts. [emoji57]


----------



## VickyB

Watching season 7(I think) epi 10 of KUWTK and Khloe and Kourt r talking about how mean kris is to Bruce. And Khloe said "it's as if she(kris) resents him for some reason".   My my. Must admit I'm enjoying re watching these older epis from a different perspective.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

VickyB said:


> Watching season 7(I think) epi 10 of KUWTK and Khloe and Kourt r talking about how mean kris is to Bruce. And Khloe said "it's as if she(kris) resents him for some reason".   My my. Must admit I'm enjoying re watching these older epis from a different perspective.



I hear ya! I watched some repeats the other day and knowing what we know now changes everything.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Bentley1 said:


> Ain't that the doggone truth. Especially in this prickly thread. Lawd. Everything is picked apart like folks are performing brain surgery on other people's posts.
> 
> I call him Bruce when referring to the days he was Bruce. For ex: he won the Olympics as a man, not a woman, so I'm not going to say "Caitlyn won the Olympics." That just would not make any sense. When he impregnated multiple women with half a dozen kids, he was clearly a man, a father, a husband at that time, So, Bruce. Etc...
> 
> And I'd really love to know if the K's now refer to her as Caitlyn? Like does PMK really call her Caitlyn/Cait now? I just don't see it.



Yea, usually I just stick with *Jenner.* Makes it a lot easier. Most of the time I can't even get my own kids names right so I'm sure not gonna stress over this bs.
I'm pretty certain if I call Caitlyn, Bruce, neither one is going to lose sleep over it.


----------



## ByeKitty

I just say Caitlyn when I talk about current events, and Bruce when it's about the past.


----------



## skarsbabe

Coach Lover Too - it's driving me nuts! Who is your avatar now? And she's toothless?? lol!


----------



## ByeKitty

skarsbabe said:


> Coach Lover Too - it's driving me nuts! Who is your avatar now? And she's toothless?? lol!



It kinda looks like a toothless Cameron Diaz to me


----------



## skarsbabe

ByeKitty said:


> It kinda looks like a toothless Cameron Diaz to me



That's exactly what I thought too!! How awful would I feel for asking, if it really was CoachLoverToo!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

skarsbabe said:


> Coach Lover Too - it's driving me nuts! Who is your avatar now? And she's toothless?? lol!



It's Cameron Diaz without teeth. lol Cracks me up when I see it. 



ByeKitty said:


> It kinda looks like a toothless Cameron Diaz to me



Oops I didn't see your post before I commented! 



skarsbabe said:


> That's exactly what I thought too!! How awful would I feel for asking, if it really was CoachLoverToo!




This is how I looked when I read your comment!
<<<<<<<<<:lolots:

I like that skirt/top that Caitlyn's wearing in that last pic that was posted. I don't like the shoes though!


----------



## CobaltBlu

Coach Lover Too said:


> It's Cameron Diaz without teeth. lol Cracks me up when I see it.



It kind of turns my stomach, to be honest.
A lot.


----------



## shiny_things

The Olympic committee have said his record will stay as 'Bruce' and she has said she is happy with that, so I imagine she is OK with people referring to him as Bruce in terms of the Olympics.

However, pretty much all of my trans patients have asked not to ever be referred to as their birth name when discussing pre-transition. I guess it's very much individual preference.


----------



## Bentley1

CobaltBlu said:


> It kind of turns my stomach, to be honest.
> 
> A lot.




Lol, it's pretty gross. [emoji28][emoji13]


----------



## ByeKitty

shiny_things said:


> The Olympic committee have said his record will stay as 'Bruce' and she has said she is happy with that, so I imagine she is OK with people referring to him as Bruce in terms of the Olympics.
> 
> However, pretty much all of my trans patients have asked not to ever be referred to as their birth name when discussing pre-transition. I guess it's very much individual preference.



Ah yes, I can see that... I think it may have to do with Caitlyn transitioning so late in life!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

CobaltBlu said:


> It kind of turns my stomach, to be honest.
> A lot.



I know just what you mean. That's what happens to me when I see certain pics of the K's.


----------



## shiny_things

ByeKitty said:


> Ah yes, I can see that... I think it may have to do with Caitlyn transitioning so late in life!



I see E! are running a 'Best of Bruce' day on the channel. I imagine he would have had to give the nod to that.


----------



## Docjeun

CobaltBlu said:


> It kind of turns my stomach, to be honest.
> A lot.


Mine too...


----------



## V0N1B2

ByeKitty said:


> Ah yes, I can see that... I think it may have to do with Caitlyn transitioning so late in life!


I think it has more to do with the fact that a woman could not have competed in the decathlon in 1976. The event didn't exist for women until more than 20 years later.
Maybe Caitlyn will help to bring attention to sexism in sports? 
Or maybe she's too busy basking in the limelight enjoying the attention paid to her looks and wardrobe choices instead of her accomplishments.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Trulyadiva said:


> Mine too...



The irony is rich.


----------



## Sasha2012

It has been a very busy few days for the star and new transgender icon. 

A packed Greek Theater gave Caitlyn Jenner a standing ovation as she introduced Culture Club's performance in Los Angeles, California, on Friday night.

According to ET, the crowd went wild as the 65-year-old walked across the famed stage on the second night of the English band's concert series.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ontman-Boy-George-stage-LA.html#ixzz3gwjCl5Ox


----------



## ByeKitty

Those boots remind me of the 90s  She looks good though. Is she joining Culture Club on tour just to introduce them?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Damn!! Went I went to Griffith Observatory early July I saw them advertised at the Greek..lol. I used to love them. George had such a good voice.

I don''t mind the outfit.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I never realized what pretty eyes Boy George has! Jenner's one eye still looks kinda wonky though. It was super obvious on the special. It's as though it wouldn't shut all the way. 
I have to say, I'm jealous of Jenner's eyebrows. Wish I had 'em!


----------



## Lounorada

Caitlyns face looks a _little less_ scary here, the smoky eye is doing wonders for her.


----------



## Hobbsy

I used to love George too! Maybe still do a little?! &#128556; Jenner needs a little softer, lower, different....voice?


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

She looks well put together here


----------



## whimsic

She looks good. Remind me a lot of Kendall.


----------



## mama13drama99

ByeKitty said:


> Those boots remind me of the 90s  She looks good though. Is she joining Culture Club on tour just to introduce them?





Lounorada said:


> Caitlyns face looks a _little less_ scary here, the smoky eye is doing wonders for her.





mrsbagalot1222 said:


> She looks well put together here




The best candid shots that I've seen so far.  The boots are dated but far better than the same old sandals kitten heels (once touted as stilettos...still smh).  Jenner definitely looks less scary and not like the fish out of water or deer in headlights.  Still has a long way to go though! 



whimsic said:


> She looks good. Remind me a lot of Kendall.




In one of those picture Jenner reminds me of someone, not the kid, but someone I can't put my finger on.  Maybe the person will come to my mind later.  Whoever put the make up and ensemble together did a great job.  And whoever took the pictures did an even better job!!!! These are the type of photos Jenner and crew need to leak/send out!



Coach Lover Too said:


> I never realized what pretty eyes Boy George has! Jenner's one eye still looks kinda wonky though. It was super obvious on the special. It's as though it wouldn't shut all the way.
> I have to say, I'm jealous of Jenner's eyebrows. Wish I had 'em!



Me darn too!  The brows were the first thing that caught my [emoji102]!


----------



## Jayne1

I think her face must be settling. Doctors are geniuses.


----------



## uhpharm01

skarsbabe said:


> Coach Lover Too - it's driving me nuts! Who is your avatar now? And she's toothless?? lol!



Oh that's the actress from the British comedy called Absolutely Fabulous"
Her name is Joanna Lumley and she payed "Patsy"

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0525921/


----------



## Coach Lover Too

uhpharm01 said:


> Oh that's the actress from the British comedy called Absolutely Fabulous"
> Her name is Joanna Lumley and she payed "Patsy"
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0525921/



No, I think they were asking about my prior pic. It was Cameron Diaz without teeth, but apparently some people needed a barf bag when they saw it. (Maybe it was just me personally and nothing to do with the pic.) 

I wondered who this person was though so thanks for that! I had no clue! Just thought she looked like a hoot.


----------



## Jayne1

Here she is dancing. Do you think this is all going to her head? All the attention and love from fans?

I do think she might become insufferable.  lol

This is a Splash video, so it's for the show, of course.

http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_pwjhsbn4


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> No, I think they were asking about my prior pic. It was Cameron Diaz without teeth, but apparently some people needed a barf bag when they saw it. (Maybe it was just me personally and nothing to do with the pic.)
> 
> I wondered who this person was though so thanks for that! I had no clue! Just thought she looked like a hoot.



You're welcome. Yes. This lady is a hoot.


----------



## Swanky

She looks very different here to me.


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> Here she is dancing. Do you think this is all going to her head? All the attention and love from fans?
> 
> I do think she might become insufferable.  lol
> 
> This is a Splash video, so it's for the show, of course.
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_pwjhsbn4



I don't see anything offputting in that video...


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> I don't see anything offputting in that video...



Who said anything about off putting?  I wonder if all this attention will cause her to want to keep going after it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

uhpharm01 said:


> You're welcome. Yes. This lady is a hoot.





Loud and abrasive! I love her! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> Who said anything about off putting?  I wonder if all this attention will cause her to want to keep going after it.



Ah, I just assumed by your commentary that the video would contain more...smugness.


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> Loud and abrasive! I love her! Thanks for sharing!



You're welcome &#128522;


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> Ah, I just assumed by your commentary that the video would contain more...smugness.



You can tell, or I think I see, her relishing being center stage.

Will she want to retreat to a private life?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> Who said anything about off putting?  I wonder if all this attention will cause her to want to keep going after it.




My guess is yes.


----------



## V0N1B2

Jayne1 said:


> *You can tell, or I think I see, her relishing being center stage.*
> 
> Will she want to retreat to a private life?


Understatement of the year.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Jayne1 said:


> Who said anything about off putting?  I wonder if all this attention will cause her to want to keep going after it.



I'm hoping she's going to balance that out with some work for the LGBTQ community. She is getting her shine on though, no doubt.

I think some of that MAY be the excitement and relief of being herself and having it out there....but (and I stress but) we'll see.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Coach Lover Too said:


> No, I think they were asking about my prior pic. It was Cameron Diaz without teeth, but apparently some people needed a barf bag when they saw it. (Maybe it was just me personally and nothing to do with the pic.)
> 
> I wondered who this person was though so thanks for that! I had no clue! Just thought she looked like a hoot.



Love Patsy!! Thanks for changing, this is much better!


----------



## actuallydear

Sasha2012 said:


> She's building up an impressive wardrobe of stylish pieces - so no doubt Caitlyn Jenner is excited to model them all.
> 
> The reality star showcased summer casual chic on Wednesday while filming her E! docu-series I Am Cait at the Four Seasons in Westlake Village.
> 
> The 65-year-old strolled through the hotel's Japanese gardens with pals Jeni and Didi looking happier than ever.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ye-sunglasses-filming-Cait.html#ixzz3gqtIMInF


is it just me, or does the top picture look photoshopped to add a see-through penis? :/


----------



## usmcwifey

Did she have her body sculpted too? The frame looks so much thinner and more feminine than I remember "Bruce" having....I must admit though....she's looking pretty darn good


----------



## CobaltBlu

Coach Lover Too said:


> No, I think they were asking about my prior pic. It was Cameron Diaz without teeth, but apparently some people needed a barf bag when they saw it.* (Maybe it was just me personally and nothing to do with the pic.)*
> 
> I wondered who this person was though so thanks for that! I had no clue! Just thought she looked like a hoot.



PS. Trust me, it was the pic.


----------



## zen1965

uhpharm01 said:


> You're welcome. Yes. This lady is a hoot.





OT: ITA. AbFab was such a hoot when it first came out. Loved it.


----------



## dangerouscurves

ByeKitty said:


> Those boots remind me of the 90s  She looks good though. Is she joining Culture Club on tour just to introduce them?




Wait the minute. Are you saying knee-high boots are two decades ago?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

CobaltBlu said:


> Love Patsy!! Thanks for changing, this is much better!



No problem! (I had no idea toothless Cameron was so bothersome!)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

CobaltBlu said:


> PS. Trust me, it was the pic.



Thank you. This makes me feel better.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

usmcwifey said:


> Did she have her body sculpted too? The frame looks so much thinner and more feminine than I remember "Bruce" having....I must admit though....she's looking pretty darn good



I agree. I do like some of the outfits lately too (and the smokey eyes).


----------



## ByeKitty

dangerouscurves said:


> Wait the minute. Are you saying knee-high boots are two decades ago?



Just that particular style, with that particular heel! That's what was all over the stores here up until 2002 or so.


----------



## dangerouscurves

ByeKitty said:


> Just that particular style, with that particular heel! That's what was all over the stores here up until 2002 or so.




Pffeewww! Then I don't have to throw away all my boots [emoji4]


----------



## ByeKitty

dangerouscurves said:


> Pffeewww! Then I don't have to throw away all my boots [emoji4]



Hahah surely you wouldn't have done that!!


----------



## dangerouscurves

ByeKitty said:


> Hahah surely you wouldn't have done that!!




I would've. Thankfully I've sold my Jimmy Choo boots that looked like those of Caitlyn's.


----------



## horse17

Coach Lover Too said:


> Thank you. This makes me feel better.


who was the one in your avatar before C diaz?...that one was hysterical....!

sorry to be off topic....


----------



## Coach Lover Too

horse17 said:


> who was the one in your avatar before C diaz?...that one was hysterical....!
> 
> sorry to be off topic....



That was Kristen Wiig​ from Saturday Night Live! She also played in the movie Bridesmaids.
 She cracks me up too.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

OH dear gawd, so sorry! Didn't know it was gonna be the size of a d*mn billboard!
Feel free to delete!


----------



## schadenfreude

Coach Lover Too said:


> No problem! (I had no idea toothless Cameron was so bothersome!)



Yeah. She was bothersome. A scary little goblin. I don't care how many times you change your avatar, you will always be horrified Aunt Linda to me.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

schadenfreude said:


> Yeah. She was bothersome. A scary little goblin. I don't care how many times you change your avatar, you will always be horrified Aunt Linda to me.


----------



## skarsbabe

I miss the KWiig one :-P I love her!

As for Caitlyn - I do find it quite interesting that since the transition she has worn nothing but dresses and skirts. I wonder if she feels like pants would be so wrong. I never wear dresses, & I'm a lady! Lol!


----------



## ByeKitty

Kristen Wiig also dressed up as PMK on SNL right?


----------



## schadenfreude

ByeKitty said:


> Kristen Wiig also dressed up as PMK on SNL right?


----------



## skarsbabe

God I love her!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> Kristen Wiig also dressed up as PMK on SNL right?





schadenfreude said:


>





skarsbabe said:


> God I love her!



Omg I've never seen that before!! That girl is a riot!!! I swear she was crackin' me up in the Bridesmaid movie! 
(She is so pretty in real life too!)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

skarsbabe said:


> *I miss the KWiig one :-P I love her!*
> 
> As for Caitlyn - I do find it quite interesting that since the transition she has worn nothing but dresses and skirts. I wonder if she feels like pants would be so wrong. I never wear dresses, & I'm a lady! Lol!



Don't worry, I saved her.


----------



## horse17

Coach Lover Too said:


> That was Kristen Wiig​ from Saturday Night Live! She also played in the movie Bridesmaids.
> She cracks me up too.



love it!..


----------



## skarsbabe

If you like her, watch 'Welcome to Me'. Can we get a Kristin Wiig thread??


----------



## Coach Lover Too

skarsbabe said:


> If you like her, watch 'Welcome to Me'. Can we get a Kristin Wiig thread??



(Is that a movie or a skit?) I think a thread would be fun but I'm not familiar enough to know too much of what she's done. Help me out! lol

Just so we don't get in trouble for being off topic, I'ma say *Shame on Caitlyn* for being so self absorbed not to help Kylie out when it's obvious she's crying for help.
First there was Rob....next will be Kylie...Each person for him or herself it seems.


----------



## fightthesunrise

skarsbabe said:


> As for Caitlyn - I do find it quite interesting that since the transition she has worn nothing but dresses and skirts. I wonder if she feels like pants would be so wrong. I never wear dresses, & I'm a lady! Lol!




This is the first time in her life she's felt she's "allowed" to wear dresses and skirts. As a man, she wore pants every day. I don't blame her if she doesn't wear pants ever again.


----------



## mama13drama99

fightthesunrise said:


> This is the first time in her life she's felt she's "allowed" to wear dresses and skirts. As a man, she wore pants every day. I don't blame her if she doesn't wear pants ever again.




Didn't really think about it like that...that makes sense.  TBH, the same thing came to mind about Caitlyn wearing skirts and dresses (only).  I thought it was out a need to not give people something to say like wearing the pants demonstrates that she is a man.  But maybe it's not as serious as that.  At least I hope not.  If Caitlyn wants to wear pants (in public) I hope she does whatever suits her fancy, on that level.  Even after only wearing pants for 64+ years.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

E Network is replaying the special and this quote sticks out to me.

*I just want to blend in.* My question would be, how's that workin' for ya?


----------



## fightthesunrise

Coach Lover Too said:


> E Network is replaying the special and this quote sticks out to me.
> 
> *I just want to blend in.* My question would be, how's that workin' for ya?




It must be so difficult knowing that how you feel inside is different than most other people. I know how it feels to feel on the outside looking in. I wish she would embrace her diversity for what it is and not want to blend in. Blending in is boring. She has this advantage of speaking and letting it be heard by millions, yet she's talking about just wanting to blend in? I thought the point of her new show was to be HEARD.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I can't think of the sister's name, but she's really cute and understanding. They seem to be really close now too so that's a good thing.


----------



## blackkitty4378

So I've noticed that Caitlyn hasn't been in on much of the family pap walks. I know she's been filming her own show but I wonder how much she will be on season 11 of KUWTK.

Also Caitlyn's eyebrows looks great. Looks like she's wearing Anastasia Beverly Hills Dipbrow for anyone who's interested in a similar look.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Is anyone watching the show yet? It doesn't start here for me until 10:00 (or so) tonight. I'm' not sure I can stay awake, so I'll probably have to catch it when they rerun it later in the week.


----------



## Crystalina

I am! It's......interesting. Sad, but fascinating.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I am! Lmao Kylie was face timing Caitlyn at the "dentist"!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Well I'll admit that I really like the styles she's worn the last few times she's been out. It's pleasantly surprising. 
I'm going to try to keep an open mind when I watch the show. (I know I hear some of you gasping. lol)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> I am! Lmao Kylie was face timing Caitlyn at the "dentist"!!


I can't wait to see that part! I read about it the other day!


----------



## madeinnyc

blackkitty4378 said:


> I am! Lmao Kylie was face timing Caitlyn at the "dentist"!!




Did you see her lips. Omggg.


----------



## Crystalina

He needs to do something about that voice. It's ridiculous.


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> I am! Lmao Kylie was face timing Caitlyn at the "dentist"!!



Why was she so out of it from being at the dentist? Do the Ks get drugged to get a cavity filled or a 6 month check up?

Personally, I like to be able to get in my car right away and drive home.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Caitlyn using the Barbara Walters camera filter for her "confessionals" makes me lol


----------



## Sassys

Crystalina said:


> I am! It's......interesting. Sad, but fascinating.



You can clearly see Kylie is very uncomfortable and faking for the camera.interesting that Caityln said none of the girls have come over to meet her.

Kylie's face looks painful. She can't move her face.

Grandma said she was married at 17 and Kylie responds, "oh, kind of like me". WTF!


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

I'm watching and actually kind of enjoying the introduction


----------



## blackkitty4378

madeinnyc said:


> Did you see her lips. Omggg.







Jayne1 said:


> Why was she so out of it from being at the dentist? Do the Ks get drugged to to get a cavity filled or a 6 month check up?
> 
> Personally, I like to be able to get in my car right away and drive home.



It's more obvious than ever that the "dentist" doesn't really mean the actual dentist! 



Coach Lover Too said:


> I can't wait to see that part! I read about it the other day!



It's quite comical! It felt like I was watching a spoof of the Kardashians but it was actually serious.


----------



## Crystalina

OMG Kanye's face is PRICELESS!!!!!!


----------



## Jayne1

I tried, but I turned it off.

Everyone is so understanding, on their best behaviour, knowing there is a camera in their face.

I saw her beautiful Malibu place, the tennis court, her stylist, whoever made the lovely lunch, the loving and caring friends and family, the overly filtered and beautified face of Caitlyn I got bored.

is this a reality I can relate to? Happy for her, but there is no story here. I can't watch Lisa Vanderpump either.


----------



## horse17

I feel bad for Mrs Jenner


----------



## Crystalina

This might be the most awkward family reunion I have EVER witnessed!


----------



## Sassys

Cracks me up they keep saying Kanye helped KIm to be accepting. Kanye needs to come out already and be free like Cait.


----------



## Crystalina

Jayne1 said:


> I tried, but I turned it off.
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone is so understanding, on their best behaviour, knowing there is a camera in their face.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw her beautiful Malibu place, the tennis court, her stylist, whoever made the lovely lunch, the loving and caring friends and family, the overly filtered and beautified face of Caitlyn I got bored.
> 
> 
> 
> is this a reality I can relate to? Happy for her, but there is no story here. I can't watch Lisa Vanderpump either.




I hear ya!


----------



## Crystalina

sassys said:


> cracks me up they keep saying kanye helped kim to be accepting. Kanye needs to come out already and be free like cait.




100%!!!!


----------



## VickyB

Doesn't air here on the west coast for another 2 hours- 8pm.


----------



## Sassys

Damn....., the way Mr. Prescott looked at Cait, when he shook her hand.


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

Sassys said:


> Cracks me up they keep saying Kanye helped KIm to be accepting. Kanye needs to come out already and be free like Cait.




Lmaoooo


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

horse17 said:


> I feel bad for Mrs Jenner




I do as well her heartbreak and pain is real but she also clearly loves her child


----------



## DiorT

I thought it was kinda boring....


----------



## horse17

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I do as well her heartbreak and pain is real but she also clearly loves her child


yes, I totally agree.....but I feel bad for her esp because of her age...this is not an issue her generation  is used to.


----------



## uhpharm01

Sassys said:


> Grandma said she was married at 17 and Kylie responds, "oh, kind of like me". WTF!


I agree


----------



## horse17

Sassys said:


> *You can clearly see Kylie is very uncomfortable and faking for the camera*.interesting that Caityln said none of the girls have come over to meet her.
> 
> Kylie's face looks painful. She can't move her face.
> 
> Grandma said she was married at 17 and Kylie responds, "oh, kind of like me". WTF!




That was so obvious....


----------



## V0N1B2

Jayne1 said:


> I tried, but I turned it off.
> 
> Everyone is so understanding, on their best behaviour, knowing there is a camera in their face.
> 
> I saw her beautiful Malibu place, the tennis court, her stylist, *whoever made the lovely lunch*, the loving and caring friends and family, the overly filtered and beautified face of Caitlyn I got bored.
> 
> is this a reality I can relate to? Happy for her, but there is no story here. I can't watch Lisa Vanderpump either.


Damn girl.  That's some subtle sh-sh-shade.
I love it


----------



## mrsbagalot1222

horse17 said:


> yes, I totally agree.....but I feel bad for her esp because of her age...this is not an issue her generation  is used to.




Very true


----------



## creighbaby

Oops


----------



## krissa

not sure if this was posted already. Are they still taping for this season of I Am Cait?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-dressed-white-gets-serenaded-Boy-George.html


----------



## tweegy

mrsbagalot1222 said:


> I do as well her heartbreak and pain is real but she also clearly loves her child




For me her thought and support was pivotal. I think she was honest and was very supportive of her child. 

I think the mom will help a lot of folks.


----------



## Jayne1

krissa said:


> not sure if this was posted already. Are they still taping for this season of I Am Cait?
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-dressed-white-gets-serenaded-Boy-George.html



Here are some photos and yes, they are still filming - you can see the camera people.

I honestly don't know how this helps the average trans kid on the street.  The one without the money for extensive plastic surgery, a stylist and full glam squad, a Malibu home overlooking the ocean, film crew and store bought friends, because people love befriending clelebs.

This is more of a 'look how fabulous my life has become' kind of show very BH Housewife.


----------



## Sasha2012




----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> Here are some photos and yes, they are still filming - you can see the camera people.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know how this helps the average trans kid on the street.  The one without the money for extensive plastic surgery, a stylist and full glam squad, a Malibu home overlooking the ocean, film crew and store bought friends, because people love befriending clelebs.
> 
> 
> 
> This is more of a 'look how fabulous my life has become' kind of show very BH Housewife.




Agreed! I also don't think everything is as sunshine and glitter ponies as the Kklan would like everyone to think. If there is ever a tell all in the future, we'll find out what is really going on. 

They should probably all be in some form of therapy, not just Kendall & Kylie. Although Kylie probably needed 24/7 therapy months ago. I think that child is about to majorly screw up her life-if she hasn't already.


----------



## Bentley1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Is anyone watching the show yet? It doesn't start here for me until 10:00 (or so) tonight. I'm' not sure I can stay awake, so I'll probably have to catch it when they rerun it later in the week.



My DVR recorded it, I'll probably watch it sometime this week.


----------



## bisousx

chowlover2 said:


> . Although Kylie probably needed 24/7 therapy months ago. I think that child is about to majorly screw up her life-if she hasn't already.



Years ago, you mean. We're talking about a child who not only grew up with a stripper pole in the house, but she knew how to use it at what, aged 6?


----------



## Crystalina

Jayne1 said:


> Here are some photos and yes, they are still filming - you can see the camera people.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know how this helps the average trans kid on the street.  The one without the money for extensive plastic surgery, a stylist and full glam squad, a Malibu home overlooking the ocean, film crew and store bought friends, because people love befriending clelebs.
> 
> 
> 
> This is more of a 'look how fabulous my life has become' kind of show very BH Housewife.




I totally agree!!!


----------



## chowlover2

bisousx said:


> Years ago, you mean. We're talking about a child who not only grew up with a stripper pole in the house, but she knew how to use it at what, aged 6?




Yes, her story gets sadder and sadder. 

And look at the mess with Scott. Losing one parent is tough enough, but both so close to one another. And he basically made his life about the K's. It is probably just hitting him now what he has lost. 

The whole family a train wreck...


----------



## creighbaby

The photoshop department has been working overtime. she reminds me of Meredith viera, which is an insult to MV.


----------



## dooneybaby

Sassys said:


> Cracks me up they keep saying Kanye helped KIm to be accepting. Kanye needs to come out already and be free like Cait.


What's Kanye coming out as? A jerk who has been hiding his true self, which is really a kind, loving and understanding person?


----------



## shiny_things

I just get the feeling that wheen Kim talks about how accepting Kanye has been, everyone gives her the side eye.


----------



## Docjeun

As some of you say "I just can't" with this whole charade!

Sorry, can't help it, I had to say it.


----------



## mama13drama99

Trulyadiva said:


> As some of you say "I just can't" with this whole charade!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, can't help it, I had to say it.




Don't be sorry!  It's true!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I think what bothers me the most is the way that Jenner still, to this day is so nonchalant about everyone's feelings, especially towards his mom. She is the poster child for unconditional love and it must be painful for her to accept, especially give the generation she came from. Jenner didn't even make an attempt to try to console her either, pretty much the same way she was with the girls in an older episode of KUWTK.
The show should be named *It's all about Caitlyn* because that's all Jenner seems to care about.

I gotta admit, the part where Caitlyn and the sister were playing tennis made me cringe. That tiny little tennis skirt was over the top. Good lerd, make it stop. Kim is nothing more than an instigator too. Did you see where she was going to try and set Kris up to be wearing the same dress that Caitlyn has so the two would be wearing it at the same time, to see who wore it best? I would be SO p*ssed if one of my kids tried to deliberately embarrass me. (I know the family is good at embarrassing themselves on their own though, but you get what I'm saying.) 

Now I read that Caitlyn had a name change ceremony which is supposed to be a big thing in the transgender community. I just don't get it, It seems Jenner is only willing to help the transgender community when there are cameras and money involved. SO the opposite of what he'd said leading up to this point.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I also read that whenever any of the K & J kids appear on the show, Kris Jenner gets her 20%.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Ask Siri how tall Bruce Jenner is.


----------



## mama13drama99

blackkitty4378 said:


> Ask Siri how tall Bruce Jenner is.




[emoji16][emoji3][emoji16][emoji3]


----------



## dooneybaby

creighbaby said:


> The photoshop department has been working overtime. she reminds me of Meredith viera, which is an insult to MV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3078121


I was watching a bit of "I am Cait" last night. Am I to understand that a lot of designers have been sending Caitlin their designs, gratis? That was the conversation I picked up while she was showing Kim some of the recent acquisitions in her walk-in closet. Caitlyn specifically mentioned DVF and I know she's been wearing a lot of DVF wrap dresses.


----------



## prettyprincess

trulyadiva said:


> as some of you say "i just can't" with this whole charade!
> 
> Sorry, can't help it, i had to say it.



+1


----------



## shiny_things

blackkitty4378 said:


> Ask Siri how tall Bruce Jenner is.



What does it say?


----------



## krissa

shiny_things said:


> What does it say?



Well I know siri's been correcting people calling her Bruce, so I'm sure it's something sassy.  I don't remember how to use Siri or I'd ask lol.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I'm watching a clip of Kanye and Kim meeting Caitlyn and wowza, Kanye got that side-eye stank face going on - LOL


----------



## blackkitty4378

shiny_things said:


> What does it say?



It says "Caitlyn Jenner is 6'2." I just thought it was funny to hear a robot correct me. Bet it pisses off the transphobes too. 

Also, if you ask what gender Bruce Jenner is, it says female.


----------



## blackkitty4378

krissa said:


> Well I know siri's been correcting people calling her Bruce, so I'm sure it's something sassy.  I don't remember how to use Siri or I'd ask lol.



Hold down the "home" button and the microphone will show up then you speak.


----------



## berrydiva

Has Bruce undergone the surgery yet? I understand that Caitlyn is living life such that the world perceives her as a woman but she is still under process right? I refuse to watch the show, it feels like a side show circus act to me.


----------



## DC-Cutie

dooneybaby said:


> I was watching a bit of "I am Cait" last night.* Am I to understand that a lot of designers have been sending Caitlin their designs, gratis?* That was the conversation I picked up while she was showing Kim some of the recent acquisitions in her walk-in closet. Caitlyn specifically mentioned DVF and I know she's been wearing a lot of DVF wrap dresses.



it's possible, since it's not an uncommon practice.  no publicity like free publicity


----------



## ByeKitty

I can't get over how much Caitlyn reminds me of Dr. Phil's wife


----------



## dooneybaby

berrydiva said:


> Has Bruce undergone the surgery yet? I understand that Caitlyn is living life such that the world perceives her as a woman but she is still under process right? I refuse to watch the show, it feels like a side show circus act to me.


Caitlyn appears to be living the good life right now. She's free and clear of a nagging wife (and usually I don't use that term when referring to women, but Kris has earned the title) who complained even when Bruce spent $3,000 on a model airplane, but Kris was spending big money on Birkins; The paps are following Caitlyn everywhere; She's honored at the Espys; she seems to have a fabulous social life; and she's buying and being given all of these beautiful designer clothes. 
But I'm wondering how long this will last? When will Caitlyn become sick of this and want to just prefer a life of privacy? Caitlyn has said that the values she had as Bruce have not changed, but I don't think Bruce would have ever loved the life Caitlyn is living now. Caitlyn is acting like a Kardashian.


----------



## creighbaby

dooneybaby said:


> I was watching a bit of "I am Cait" last night. Am I to understand that a lot of designers have been sending Caitlin their designs, gratis? That was the conversation I picked up while she was showing Kim some of the recent acquisitions in her walk-in closet. Caitlyn specifically mentioned DVF and I know she's been wearing a lot of DVF wrap dresses.




I wouldn't doubt it. She is wearing loads of DVF wrap dresses, which really do flatter various body types. Isn't DVF's slogan: feel like a woman, wear a dress.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Jayne1 said:


> Here are some photos and yes, they are still filming - you can see the camera people.
> 
> I honestly don't know how this helps the average trans kid on the street.  The one without the money for extensive plastic surgery, a stylist and full glam squad, a Malibu home overlooking the ocean, film crew and store bought friends, because people love befriending clelebs.
> 
> This is more of a 'look how fabulous my life has become' kind of show very BH Housewife.



I don't think the glamour is what will help young transgender people. It's just having someone to identify with on TV that has the same internal struggle they do. Also seeing a good chunk of the media being accepting of Caitlyn as well as celebrities supporting her and not calling her names will help them feel like they're not a freak or alone. Like if people can accept her transition maybe they will accept mine. Not many people can identify with Kim's lifestyle either but people can still identify with her having a miserable pregnancy or her struggles to conceive. Hearing that someone else feels or is going through the same thing helps people feel like they aren't alone. Just because she has access to a glam squad doesn't mean an average person can't relate


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> I also read that whenever any of the K & J kids appear on the show, Kris Jenner gets her 20%.



I'm sure the theme music to Kris' life is "Bish Betta Have My Money"


----------



## Jayne1

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I don't think the glamour is what will help young transgender people. It's just having someone to identify with on TV that has the same internal struggle they do. Also seeing a good chunk of the media being accepting of Caitlyn as well as celebrities supporting her and not calling her names will help them feel like they're not a freak or alone. Like if people can accept her transition maybe they will accept mine. Not many people can identify with Kim's lifestyle either but people can still identify with her having a miserable pregnancy or her struggles to conceive. Hearing that someone else feels or is going through the same thing helps people feel like they aren't alone. Just because she has access to a glam squad doesn't mean an average person can't relate



Those are very good points I guess I'm just not interested in her fabulous life, although I probably would have been interested in her struggle to get there.

When did she start the process, how far back did she get the boobs, picking the plastic surgeons, deciding on her new face shape, what she liked and what she didn't, who she first told and why, deciding on her transformation strategy in regard to the media, how she really told Kris. I would like to have seen the real talks with  with Vanity Fair, picking the photographer, who decided what the cover shot should be and what she would wear.  Did Cait really want to wear an undergarment the real stuff.

I sort of wanted to see that part. I wonder if trans kids might have been interested in her decisions and what she had to do, so they'll be prepared if they do it themselves.


----------



## bisousx

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I don't think the glamour is what will help young transgender people. It's just having someone to identify with on TV that has the same internal struggle they do. Also seeing a good chunk of the media being accepting of Caitlyn as well as celebrities supporting her and not calling her names will help them feel like they're not a freak or alone. Like if people can accept her transition maybe they will accept mine. Not many people can identify with Kim's lifestyle either but people can still identify with her having a miserable pregnancy or her struggles to conceive. Hearing that someone else feels or is going through the same thing helps people feel like they aren't alone. Just because she has access to a glam squad doesn't mean an average person can't relate



This, Bruce was an Olympic medalist and co-star
of a current reality show - back in his day, he was the epitome of a masculine American champion. Not only does his transition make you question your understanding of what transgender is, but it helps the topic become mainstream. The more mainstream the issue, the less TG people have to feel like they are outcasts or "freaks". Chaz Bono may be a more classy public figure, but let's face it, he is the son of a star and no one's checking for him.


----------



## Sassys

ForeverYoung87 said:


> *I don't think the glamour is what will help young transgender people. It's just having someone to identify with on TV that has the same internal struggle they do. Also seeing a good chunk of the media being accepting of Caitlyn as well as celebrities supporting her and not calling her names will help them feel like they're not a freak or alone. Like if people can accept her transition maybe they will accept mine.* Not many people can identify with Kim's lifestyle either but people can still identify with her having a miserable pregnancy or her struggles to conceive. Hearing that someone else feels or is going through the same thing helps people feel like they aren't alone. Just because she has access to a glam squad doesn't mean an average person can't relate


 
Agree


----------



## bagsforme

Did you hear Caitlyn say the kids haven't come around since her announcement.  But when cameras are there they all show up for the show and support.  

What is going on with her left eye?  Were nerves damaged with the surgery or to much botox?


----------



## dangerouscurves

blackkitty4378 said:


> It says "Caitlyn Jenner is 6'2." I just thought it was funny to hear a robot correct me. Bet it pisses off the transphobes too.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if you ask what gender Bruce Jenner is, it says female.




Then I think Siri is more open-minded than some people! Go Siri, go!!!


----------



## bagsforme

ByeKitty said:


> I can't get over how much Caitlyn reminds me of Dr. Phil's wife



Caitlyns not looking as much of a overfilled bobble head yet.   What the hell has happened to Dr Phils wife.  If she claims her skin care line is doing it, run away!


----------



## ForeverYoung87

bagsforme said:


> Did you hear Caitlyn say the kids haven't come around since her announcement.  But when cameras are there they all show up for the show and support.
> 
> What is going on with her left eye?  Were nerves damaged with the surgery or to much botox?



It seems like even her side of the family didn't meet her until the Vanity Fair cover came out which I thought was so wrong. And what was with all the shots of people's hands lol?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I have a hard time understanding how transgender people can relate to someone like Caityln Jenner when the average citizen doesn't have millions of dollars to spend on plastic surgery to redo themselves from top to bottom, makeup artists at their disposal, designers throwing clothes their way/etc.
I too found it odd that none of the family had met her before that. Sounds as though they're just trying to keep up the appearances for money's sake.

The only person I felt empathy for was Jenner's mom (and Kylie and Kendall to some degree but mostly the mom.) It's really difficult for have any empathy for Caitlyn when she doesn't seem to care who she hurt in the process. Her blatant disregard for their feelings rubs me the wrong way. 
Used to when I'd hear the name Bruce Jenner, I automatically thought of the Olympics but now the first thing that comes to mind is liar, especially since it was admitted on tv that he (yes, he...at THE time I'm speaking of) was not as forthcoming as he should have been. He picked and chose what he wanted known. Lying by omission is still lying.
 I love her style though, so I give her points for that!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

blackkitty4378 said:


> Ask Siri how tall Bruce Jenner is.



No need to ask Siri when there's Google.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> No need to ask Siri when there's Google.



no you gotta listen to the Siri version...


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I have a hard time understanding how transgender people can relate to someone like Caityln Jenner when the average citizen doesn't have millions of dollars to spend on plastic surgery to redo themselves from top to bottom, makeup artists at their disposal, designers throwing clothes their way/etc.
> I too found it odd that none of the family had met her before that. Sounds as though they're just trying to keep up the appearances for money's sake.



That's what I was saying before.

She's just showing off, there was no struggle, no pain, everything is love and lovely.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> That's what I was saying before.
> 
> She's just showing off, there was no struggle, no pain, everything is love and lovely.



Exactly. If anything I think transgender people will find it more difficult because they don't have things like that at their disposal (most anyway) and I think it could cause even more depression because they can't compare or relate. Caitlyn is making it look ALL too easy.


----------



## Crystalina

Coach Lover Too said:


> Exactly. If anything I think transgender people will find it more difficult because they don't have things like that at their disposal (most anyway) and I think it could cause even more depression because they can't compare or relate. Caitlyn is making it look ALL too easy.




I agree 100%!!!!


----------



## usmcwifey

berrydiva said:


> Has Bruce undergone the surgery yet? I understand that Caitlyn is living life such that the world perceives her as a woman but she is still under process right? I refuse to watch the show, it feels like a side show circus act to me.




When I watched the small Clip from the show all I kept thinking was omg she still sounds like Bruce...I couldn't see past anything because of the voice (horrible?) ....it felt like he was playing dress up to me


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> I have a hard time understanding how transgender people can relate to someone like Caityln Jenner when the average citizen doesn't have millions of dollars to spend on plastic surgery to redo themselves from top to bottom, makeup artists at their disposal, designers throwing clothes their way/etc.
> I too found it odd that none of the family had met her before that. Sounds as though they're just trying to keep up the appearances for money's sake.



I think some of yall are focusing too much on the money and materalism. Laverene Cox is pretty glamorous and has the money too doesn't stop people from labeling her a good role model. 


People ignore the fact that Angelina is one of if not the most famous/richest actresses in the world but that doesn't stop them from relating to her breast/ovarian cancer battle. She has access to the best doctors in the world. A lot of average joes don't or don't even have health insurance/money to do the same preventative procedure she did. But there's women that still relate because they're going through the same thing.

Is there a celeb out there you relate to?


----------



## V0N1B2

creighbaby said:


> I wouldn't doubt it. She is wearing loads of DVF wrap dresses, which really do flatter various body types. Isn't DVF's slogan: feel like a woman, wear a dress.
> 
> View attachment 3078398


What size is Caitlyn wearing tho?  DVF only goes up to a size 14 doesn't it?
Bruce Jenner probably wore a 42/44 Men's suit.  That would be a 16 in women's I would think.  Caitlyn didn't have her shoulders and chest narrowed did she?  In fact she had breasts added to an already broad chest.
Did she mention any of that stuff in her show?  About how difficult is was to dress her new body and find size 13W shoes?


----------



## DC-Cutie

V0N1B2 said:


> What size is Caitlyn wearing tho?  DVF only goes up to a size 14 doesn't it?



if DVF is providing clothes, they can always be custom fitted


----------



## Coach Lover Too

usmcwifey said:


> When I watched the small Clip from the show all I kept thinking was omg she still sounds like Bruce...I couldn't see past anything because of the voice (horrible?) ....it felt like he was playing dress up to me



*I agree. The whole thing seems so fake to me. Too much like a Kardashian  for my taste. Even Caitlyn doesn't seem to take herself serious so how  can we be expected to? Everything that comes out of her mouth is related  to the physical aspect of things, and not how she feels internally.
*My nails, my clothes, my hair, my shoes, my new closet, my makeup, blah, blah...*
*


ForeverYoung87 said:


> I think some of yall are focusing too much on the money and materalism. Laverene Cox is pretty glamorous and has the money too doesn't stop people from labeling her a good role model.
> 
> 
> People ignore the fact that Angelina is one of if not the most famous/richest actresses in the world but that doesn't stop them from relating to her breast/ovarian cancer battle. She has access to the best doctors in the world. A lot of average joes don't or don't even have health insurance/money to do the same preventative procedure she did. But there's women that still relate because they're going through the same thing.
> 
> Is there a celeb out there you relate to?



*Nope, can't say that there is. My grandmother died of breast cancer and my mother is a 30+ year survivor and there's no way I could begin to relate to Angelina. I would never turn to a celebrity, politician, etc. for a role model. *


----------



## lanasyogamama

I swear I'm the only woman that looks bad in DVF. I think I don't have enough of a difference between my waist and hips, even though I'm slim.


----------



## labelwhore04

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I think some of yall are focusing too much on the money and materalism. Laverene Cox is pretty glamorous and has the money too doesn't stop people from labeling her a good role model.
> 
> 
> People ignore the fact that Angelina is one of if not the most famous/richest actresses in the world but that doesn't stop them from relating to her breast/ovarian cancer battle. She has access to the best doctors in the world. A lot of average joes don't or don't even have health insurance/money to do the same preventative procedure she did. But there's women that still relate because they're going through the same thing.
> 
> Is there a celeb out there you relate to?



Exactly. Having money doesn't mean you don't have the same problems as anyone else. Being rich didn't stop Steve Jobs from dying of cancer or Robin Williams from taking his own life. Everyone has their issues. We're all human and can relate to eachother in one way or another.


----------



## dangerouscurves

lanasyogamama said:


> I swear I'm the only woman that looks bad in DVF. I think I don't have enough of a difference between my waist and hips, even though I'm slim.




Nah. Me too. They always look like potato sack on me.


----------



## pukasonqo

the guardian has an interesting article 
(link does not work)  with 5 trans writers giving their opinion about caitlyn's TV show :  I Am Cait panel review - five trans writers give their  verdict
sorry, on my ipad and having dramas trying to link the article, the last writer,Luke Stavrand Woolf: &#8216;She has more in common with other wealthy white Americans than with many other trans people&#8217;, is probably the one who is less impressed and raises some valid points


----------



## Deco

Coach Lover Too said:


> *I agree. The whole thing seems so fake to me. Too much like a Kardashian  for my taste. Even Caitlyn doesn't seem to take herself serious so how  can we be expected to? Everything that comes out of her mouth is related  to the physical aspect of things, and not how she feels internally.*
> **My nails, my clothes, my hair, my shoes, my new closet, my makeup, blah, blah...**


 You've hit on something I've been noticing about Caitlyn as well. The only transgender person I know chose her gender (despite the sex nature assigned to her) and it seems to fit her perfectly. She is a colleague I know through work who was born male but is now female.  Everything about her is female.  I don't mean that in a crass caricature of a flamboyant girlie or damsel in distress or any other exaggerated female stereotype kind of way.  She is a dignified and respectable business woman, always polished and professional working in an industry dominated by men, but she still exudes womanliness, even though her voice is lower than the typical woman's.  When I have a conversation with her, she listens and asks questions like a woman would.  My conversations with men are always very different from the ones I have with women. 

I don't know if there are clear defining lines between what a man is and what a woman is (besides the obvious genetic markers and genitalia).  But what I can't see in Caitlyn is how she feels she's a woman trapped in a man's body when everything else about her seems male.  Her interest in fast expensive sport cars, her golfing interest, her planes, how she communicates, how she carries herself.  Her toys and interests are man toys and interests.  She hasn't exhibited anything that could pass for "maternal instincts".  She was and still is clearly a hands off dad to her children. I've never had children (not counting current bun in oven), and yet I have more of a maternal interaction with other people's children than I've seen Caitlyn have with his own.  While his vile wife is busting her butt building a pimp empire, Caitlyn/Bruce didn't keep house or nurture the family.  His vile wife did it all. The only thing about Caitlyn that is an expression of a woman is her outward physical appearance.  It all seems superficial to me, and I have never thought this of the other transgender people I've known or observed.  Their chosen gender isn't just skin deep.  It goes all they way through and makes sense.  Caitlyn seems to be only focused on how she looks, while the rest of her can go on being male.

I'm not one to slavishly characterize interests, toys, and characteristics as purely male or female.  Of course tons of women are into golfing and fast cars, but the totality of what Caitlyn's drawn to seems consistently male. Did Caitlyn's struggles stem only from not synching with how she looks?  I don't see her having any other yearnings or expressions or longing to be a woman, besides identifying herself as one and dressing up to look like one.


Regardless, if she suffered her whole life, she deserves to be happy, however she wants to achieve that.  I just can't imagine that this is all about whether she can wear dresses, put on make up, and wear nail polish long enough to see it chip.  That's not what being a women is about, and I strangely feel like she's trivializing our gender.


----------



## JetSetGo!

pukasonqo said:


> the guardian has an interesting article (www.theguardian.com) with 5 trans writers giving their opinion about caitlyn's TV show :  I Am Cait panel review - five trans writers give their  verdict
> sorry, on my ipad and having dramas trying to link the article, the last writer,Luke Stavrand Woolf: &#8216;She has more in common with other wealthy white Americans than with many other trans people&#8217;, is probably the one who is less impressed and raises some valid points



http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/jul/27/i-am-cait-panel-review-trans-writers

Since you are on your iPad, I am posting the contents here as we require that with the links. I removed the other article because it's not about Caitlyn, and we are trying very hard to keep this thread on her &#8211; not the general transgender experience.



> Katherine Cross: &#8216;It&#8217;s a show aimed at a cisgendered audience &#8211; but I empathised with Jenner&#8217;
> You wake up with Caitlyn Jenner at 4am as she fulminates over her sense of responsibility to the trans community, fretting about &#8220;getting it right&#8221;. As I sat through the gauzy opening titles of I Am Cait I found myself feeling just a touch ill at ease about the media phenomenon Jenner has become &#8211; a phenomenon that always seemed crafted for the curiosities and pleasures of a non-trans audience. What I Am Cait revealed to me is how seriously Jenner herself seems to take this, how morally conscious she is of her role and its obligations. Contrary to most close-ups of an individual trans woman&#8217;s life, the documentary does afford Jenner the opportunity to weave its personal subject matter into larger political issues.
> 
> &#8220;You also have to realise it&#8217;s not this way for everyone,&#8221; she says when she reflects on how &#8220;blessed&#8221; and &#8220;privileged&#8221; she has been.
> 
> &#8220;People are dying over this issue,&#8221; she reminds us pointedly, bringing in shocking suicide statistics and stories for her family to pore over.
> 
> The episode centres around Jenner reintroducing herself to members of her family, her mother, her children, following the path of those familiar lanterns on the road to coming out: revealing your new appearance, being misgendered, the pleading parent who says she &#8220;had no idea!&#8221;, hand-wringing anxieties, the saintly patience that must be a through-line for the whole affair. Despite the gulf of wealth between us, I empathised with Jenner.
> 
> But this was still not a documentary for me per se. Like most media in this genre, it is meant to speak to a cisgender audience. Jenner makes use of this, though. The audience stand-in is her sceptical mother, Esther, who grants utterance to cisgender middle America, Bible quotes, weeping proclamations of difficulty and all. The therapist who Jenner brings in to counsel and educate her, to ease her into acceptance, seems meant to speak to the entire audience as well. As Esther processes her anguish, you can almost see in her the conflicted emotions of the cis audience, coming to grips with trans existence.
> 
> &#8220;I&#8217;m optimistic about the future and I&#8217;m draggin&#8217; you along with me,&#8221; Jenner says to her mother, chuckling. She might as well be saying it to the opening night audience as well.
> 
> Jenner has made herself into a public object lesson; it remains to be seen what work this does for the many trans people Jenner feels responsible for. I want to be optimistic too.
> 
> Meredith Talusan: &#8216;She needs to embody her imperfections and expose some vulnerability&#8217;
> 
> 
> As Caitlyn Jenner takes her first, tentative steps into womanhood in I Am Cait, she&#8217;s keen to do all the right things so she won&#8217;t endure the collective judgment of both the trans community and the broader public. Yet in Jenner&#8217;s desire to please us, I Am Cait turns into an odd combination of reality TV and after-school special, overlooking both the deep difficulty and complexity of trans, as well as the excitement of conflict that makes for compelling television. Maybe the combination of liberal duty and built-in spectacle will keep people watching, but I find myself waiting for something surprising to happen.
> 
> The carefulness of Jenner and everyone around her gives the show an air of predictability, even in its genuine moments. Jenner&#8217;s mom Esther&#8217;s struggle with her daughter&#8217;s gender is certainly vital, and one of the most illuminating comments in the show is when Jenner reveals how family members like Khloe and Rob Kardashian express support on social media but haven&#8217;t managed to see her as Cait, expressing the gulf many trans people feel between theoretical and full support.
> 
> Yet there aren&#8217;t nearly enough of these moments, or of people who are willing to openly yet supportively challenge Jenner, as Kim Kardashian fleetingly does when she tells her to throw out some gaudy outfits. There are also few situations that expose fundamental aspects of Jenner&#8217;s struggle, as she glosses over intense media criticism following her Vanity Fair cover with a mere, &#8220;Everyone&#8217;s been so supportive.&#8221; She also refuses to discuss her surgeries because she doesn&#8217;t want to turn them into spectacle, but another reason may be that doing so would expose her deepest vulnerabilities about her appearance and questions about how she uses her wealth. The show&#8217;s unwilingness to delve into these issues reminds me of the uncanny smoothness of Jenner&#8217;s face, which must hide great pain in its recesses: a source not just of good television but a much deeper understanding of trans women than the show presents.
> 
> The other major subplot of I Am Cait&#8217;s premier episode, the trans suicide of San Diego teen Kyler Prescott, also demonstrates the show&#8217;s lack of tension. As Jenner speaks to Kyler&#8217;s mom about her son&#8217;s death, then attends a balloon-releasing event in Kyler&#8217;s honour, the entire affair feels like a photo op rather than a moment when Jenner fully connects with the suicide issue in the trans community. There&#8217;s no one to ask if she plans to engage extensively with at-risk trans youth beyond her show, or whether swooping into town without that kind of deep understanding could be cynically viewed as exploiting the issue to get social justice brownie points, a reality-TV version of corporate social responsibility. The lack of people regularly willing to challenge the show&#8217;s star leaves I Am Cait lacking not just tension, but trans awareness borne out of complexity and difficulty rather than well-meaning platitudes.
> 
> A vital element of getting it right, whether in reality TV or a phenomenon as complex as transgenderism, is the willingness to risk getting it wrong, and this is what&#8217;s largely missing from both the first episode of I Am Cait and the preview of the rest of the season. Jenner in her inexperience isn&#8217;t ready to be a full-fledged leader in the trans community yet, and she doesn&#8217;t need to be. All she needs to do is embody her imperfection, and put herself in uncontrolled situations where we can witness her vulnerability. She can also not just acknowledge but live her lack of understanding, let people in her life with more experience challenge not just her wardrobe like Kim does, but also her life choices and the work she&#8217;s doing on behalf of the trans community. This would make I Am Cait not just more helpful to trans people and the public&#8217;s understanding of us, but also a hell of a lot more interesting.


----------



## nycmom

I wonder if people are taking the idea of Jenner being a role model a little too literally (ha try saying those last few words 10 times fast)!

I don't think its about Jenner the actual person as much as Jenner the symbol...as others have said the idea that someone transgender can be so "out" and accepted is a relatively new concept, and I imagine very powerful to someone feeling quite alone and scared in their struggle.

I work with teenagers. I had a student who was gay but felt he could not tell his family, he was certain based on their culture that they would reject him. So he lived with this secret for years, becoming more and more isolated and depressed. Finally I introduced him to a friend of mine, a very successful politician in a happy and healthy partnership with three adopted children. The change in my student was amazing and almost instantaneous...just the knowledge that a gay man could live and love openly gave him hope for his own life and future. He needed to know it was possible and for now that is enough.


----------



## Jayne1

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I think some of yall are focusing too much on the money and materalism. Laverene Cox is pretty glamorous and has the money too doesn't stop people from labeling her a good role model.
> 
> 
> People ignore the fact that Angelina is one of if not the most famous/richest actresses in the world but that doesn't stop them from relating to her breast/ovarian cancer battle. She has access to the best doctors in the world. A lot of average joes don't or don't even have health insurance/money to do the same preventative procedure she did. But there's women that still relate because they're going through the same thing.
> 
> Is there a celeb out there you relate to?



We haven't been watching Laverene Cox for decades, as we have Bruce.  We don't really know what she looked like before and we don't know if she was leading, or is still leading, an over the top, privileged, self indulgent, lavish lifestyle, bragging for a reality show which takes away from the focus, IMO. 

Angelina is a do gooder. She's Saint Angie and not like most people. If this fabulous woman gets sick, people can relate.


----------



## Sassys

Decophile said:


> You've hit on something I've been noticing about Caitlyn as well. The only transgender person I know chose her gender (despite the sex nature assigned to her) and it seems to fit her perfectly. She is a colleague I know through work who was born male but is now female.  Everything about her is female.  I don't mean that in a crass caricature of a flamboyant girlie or damsel in distress or any other exaggerated female stereotype kind of way.  She is a dignified and respectable business woman, always polished and professional working in an industry dominated by men, but she still exudes womanliness, even though her voice is lower than the typical woman's.  When I have a conversation with her, she listens and asks questions like a woman would.  My conversations with men are always very different from the ones I have with women.
> 
> I don't know if there are clear defining lines between what a man is and what a woman is (besides the obvious genetic markers and genitalia).  But what I can't see in Caitlyn is how she feels she's a woman trapped in a man's body when everything else about her seems male.  Her interest in fast expensive sport cars, her golfing interest, her planes, how she communicates, how she carries herself.  Her toys and interests are man toys and interests.  She hasn't exhibited anything that could pass for "maternal instincts".  She was and still is clearly a hands off dad to her children. I've never had children (not counting current bun in oven), and yet I have more of a maternal interaction with other people's children than I've seen Caitlyn have with his own.  *While his vile wife is busting her butt building a pimp empire, Caitlyn/Bruce didn't keep house or nurture the family.  His vile wife did it all.* The only thing about Caitlyn that is an expression of a woman is her outward physical appearance.  It all seems superficial to me, and I have never thought this of the other transgender people I've known or observed.  Their chosen gender isn't just skin deep.  It goes all they way through and makes sense.  Caitlyn seems to be only focused on how she looks, while the rest of her can go on being male.
> 
> I'm not one to slavishly characterize interests, toys, and characteristics as purely male or female.  Of course tons of women are into golfing and fast cars, but the totality of what Caitlyn's drawn to seems consistently male. Did Caitlyn's struggles stem only from not synching with how she looks?  I don't see her having any other yearnings or expressions or longing to be a woman, besides identifying herself as one and dressing up to look like one.
> 
> 
> Regardless, if she suffered her whole life, she deserves to be happy, however she wants to achieve that.  I just can't imagine that this is all about whether she can wear dresses, put on make up, and wear nail polish long enough to see it chip.  That's not what being a women is about, and I strangely feel like she's trivializing our gender.


 

All the kids have said numerous times, it was Bruce that carpooled them and took them to school. They all said it was Bruce not Kris, that took part in all their school functions.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Decophile said:


> Regardless, if she suffered her whole life, she deserves to be happy, however she wants to achieve that.  I just can't imagine that this is all about whether she can wear dresses, put on make up, and wear nail polish long enough to see it chip.  That's not what being a women is about, and I strangely feel like she's trivializing our gender.



Interesting note. I have a couple of responses that come to mind.

On one hand, if she's been living as a man on the outside for so many years, the newness of finally being able to express herself in a physical way as a woman would be the biggest change in her life and therefore the most present right now. Meaning, she didn't all the sudden feel like a woman. That's always been. But to dress and "behave" as one, is a totally new and is probably an overwhelming experience &#8211; right down to her nail polish. 

I agree however that women do not want to be caricatured by anyone. Being a woman does not reside in the way one crosses her legs,  flips her hair or holds her cigarette. I mean, she should do whatever feels true for her as long as that's what it is &#8211; and there should be no punishment for whatever that "true" is. Only she can determine that.


----------



## Jayne1

lanasyogamama said:


> I swear I'm the only woman that looks bad in DVF. I think I don't have enough of a difference between my waist and hips, even though I'm slim.



No you aren't I remember back in the day, when she copied that dress as if it were her own design and showed it in polyester prints  lol

DVF was the only one who could wear the hell out of that dress. She designs for herself.


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> We haven't been watching Laverene Cox for decades, as we have Bruce.  We don't really know what she looked like before and we don't know if she was leading, or is still leading, an over the top, privileged, self indulgent, lavish lifestyle, bragging for a reality show which takes away from the focus, IMO.
> 
> Angelina is a do gooder. She's Saint Angie and not like most people. If this fabulous woman gets sick, people can relate.


 
Laverne has a identical twin brother, who has played her in flash back on OITNB, so we know what she looked like before. Laverne was also on a reality show years ago to be Puff Daddy's assistant (in 2008) and she basically looks the same (better make up and hair).


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> All the kids have said numerous times, it was Bruce that carpooled them and took them to school. They all said it was Bruce not Kris, that took part in all their school functions.



What else was he going to do.  So he took the kids to school and watched their basketball games.  Not as if he had to work a daily job, cook, clean, balance the chequebook, cut the grass and get the kids on the bus so he took the kids to school.   Good for him.  Loving father.


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> What else was he going to do.  So he took the kids to school and watched their basketball games.  Not as if he had to work a daily job, cook, clean, balance the chequebook, cut the grass and get the kids on the bus&#8230; so he took the kids to school.   Good for him.  Loving father.


 
Kris was to busy sleeping around with various men. Even their old nanny that wrote a book, said Kris was never around and was off being the typical Beverly Hills wife. Kris herself has stated, Bruce was the one that mainly took care of the kids. Kris was to busy teaching Kim how to whore herself. Bruce and Khloe basically raised Kendall and Kylie.


----------



## Jayne1

He was the lesser of two evils, but I'm not giving him high praise for driving in one of his favourite luxury vehicles twice a day.


----------



## pukasonqo

JetSetGo! said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/jul/27/i-am-cait-panel-review-trans-writers
> 
> Since you are on your iPad, I am posting the contents here as we require that with the links. I removed the other article because it's not about Caitlyn, and we are trying very hard to keep this thread on her  not the general transgender experience.




thanks!


----------



## ByeKitty

Decophile said:


> You've hit on something I've been noticing about Caitlyn as well. The only transgender person I know chose her gender (despite the sex nature assigned to her) and it seems to fit her perfectly. She is a colleague I know through work who was born male but is now female.  Everything about her is female.  I don't mean that in a crass caricature of a flamboyant girlie or damsel in distress or any other exaggerated female stereotype kind of way.  She is a dignified and respectable business woman, always polished and professional working in an industry dominated by men, but she still exudes womanliness, even though her voice is lower than the typical woman's.  When I have a conversation with her, she listens and asks questions like a woman would.  My conversations with men are always very different from the ones I have with women.
> 
> I don't know if there are clear defining lines between what a man is and what a woman is (besides the obvious genetic markers and genitalia).  But what I can't see in Caitlyn is how she feels she's a woman trapped in a man's body when everything else about her seems male.  Her interest in fast expensive sport cars, her golfing interest, her planes, how she communicates, how she carries herself.  Her toys and interests are man toys and interests.  She hasn't exhibited anything that could pass for "maternal instincts".  She was and still is clearly a hands off dad to her children. I've never had children (not counting current bun in oven), and yet I have more of a maternal interaction with other people's children than I've seen Caitlyn have with his own.  While his vile wife is busting her butt building a pimp empire, Caitlyn/Bruce didn't keep house or nurture the family.  His vile wife did it all. The only thing about Caitlyn that is an expression of a woman is her outward physical appearance.  It all seems superficial to me, and I have never thought this of the other transgender people I've known or observed.  Their chosen gender isn't just skin deep.  It goes all they way through and makes sense.  Caitlyn seems to be only focused on how she looks, while the rest of her can go on being male.
> 
> I'm not one to slavishly characterize interests, toys, and characteristics as purely male or female.  Of course tons of women are into golfing and fast cars, but the totality of what Caitlyn's drawn to seems consistently male. Did Caitlyn's struggles stem only from not synching with how she looks?  I don't see her having any other yearnings or expressions or longing to be a woman, besides identifying herself as one and dressing up to look like one.
> 
> 
> Regardless, if she suffered her whole life, she deserves to be happy, however she wants to achieve that.  I just can't imagine that this is all about whether she can wear dresses, put on make up, and wear nail polish long enough to see it chip.  That's not what being a women is about, and I strangely feel like she's trivializing our gender.



Good post! I agree with what you're saying, that Caitlyn's concept of being a woman comes across kind of "skin deep". However, I don't think we should trivialize the fact that she lived as Bruce for 65 years. This is a person who secretly cross dressed for decades, fashion was something he was always interested in it seems - it was just unattainable for Bruce Jenner. I can totally imagine completely indulging in the "looks" part right after transitioning.

I'm also not surprised she hasn't lost the masculine mannerisms all of a sudden, after living as a male for so long. Now if she had turned all dainty overnight that would feel insincere to me, and like stereotyping. That would have offended me much more than the lipstick and the heels.


----------



## fightthesunrise

byekitty said:


> good post! I agree with what you're saying, that caitlyn's concept of being a woman comes across kind of "skin deep". However, i don't think we should trivialize the fact that she lived as bruce for 65 years. This is a person who secretly cross dressed for decades, fashion was something he was always interested in it seems - it was just unattainable for bruce jenner. I can totally imagine completely indulging in the "looks" part right after transitioning.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also not surprised she hasn't lost the masculine mannerisms all of a sudden, after living as a male for so long. Now if she had turned all dainty overnight that would feel insincere to me, and like stereotyping. That would have offended me much more than the lipstick and the heels.




+1


----------



## JetSetGo!

ByeKitty said:


> I'm also not surprised she hasn't lost the masculine mannerisms all of a sudden, after living as a male for so long. Now if she had turned all dainty overnight that would feel insincere to me, and like stereotyping. That would have offended me much more than the lipstick and the heels.



This is what I was trying to say too. As women, we are taught without words from the day we are born to take up as little space as possible and I think it's hard for any man to truly understand what that feels like. It's why we generally cross our legs when sitting, and apologize for EVERYTHING.

If Jenner suddenly acquired all of these affectations, they would feel insincere.


----------



## Deco

JetSetGo! said:


> I agree however that women do not want to be caricature-ized by anyone. Being a woman does not reside in the way one crosses her legs,  flips her hair or holds her cigarette. I mean, she should do whatever feels true for her as long as that's what it is  and there should be no punishment for whatever that "true" is. Only she can determine that.


I'm about to frolic onto a theoretical tangent.  In a time and place where gender roles and definitions are clearly established and oppressively enforced, the struggle would be much more pronounced and this discourse much more critical.  But in today's more relaxed and accepting environment (yes, I know large swaths of horror still exist, but let's face it, Caitlyn doesn't swim in those ponds), what is the point of agonizing over calling yourself a woman, expecting it to signal certain defined characteristics to the world, but intending it to mean only what you want it to mean?  I'm all for ambiguity and evolving beyond the constraints of tradition.   Of course she's free to do whatever she wants and to define her own true self.  I'm lost when she dramatically invokes a label (woman) to publicize who she is, but unfettered freedom in personalizing what that means negates the significance and purpose of that label.  To me it looks like she means that she wants to wear dresses and makeup and to be known as a woman, because that's all she's expressed.  That's perfectly fine, but is there more to her womanhood than that?  Is that the extent of her definition of woman?   That's a valid question, and one I would never pose to a transitioning person, but I will in our own discussion community.   If that is all she means, why does any of it matter?  If "woman" is a customizable, malleable label that can mean whatever as each person defines it, why place so much importance on the label at all?  If "sugar free" can mean anything from zero sugar to made of solid cane sugar to none of your business how much sugar, why use the label at all?  If gender is what each individual says it is, without any need for a baseline consensus on what it means, then it all becomes meaningless.  
Incidentally, I'm all for meaningless also.  I don't object to diluting, bending, changing the meanings of labels, eradicating them altogether, so long as you acknowledge that's what you're doing and you can articulate a reason why the label ought to be retired.  There is nothing wrong with gender neutrality or duality, and it might be where evolution will take us anyway.


----------



## Deco

ByeKitty said:


> Good post! I agree with what you're saying, that Caitlyn's concept of being a woman comes across kind of "skin deep". However, I don't think we should trivialize the fact that she lived as Bruce for 65 years. This is a person who secretly cross dressed for decades, fashion was something he was always interested in it seems - it was just unattainable for Bruce Jenner. I can totally imagine completely indulging in the "looks" part right after transitioning.
> 
> I'm also not surprised she hasn't lost the masculine mannerisms all of a sudden, after living as a male for so long. Now if she had turned all dainty overnight that would feel insincere to me, and like stereotyping. That would have offended me much more than the lipstick and the heels.


I completely agree with you about her mannerisms.  It's one of the more endearing things about her, that her mannerisms haven't changed.  Honestly, most gender-crossing mannerisms strike me as affectations, and get an eye roll from me.  I too thought that perhaps this is all new to her and she's enjoying the fun aspects of womanhood that can be most publicly and readily expressed.  But she has also said that this is who she's been her whole life, that Caitlyn has been hiding inside her.  I took this as a life-long self-knowledge and familiarity with what makes her know she's a woman.  I'm still waiting to hear what that is, besides the heals and makeup, that is.


----------



## Deco

Sassys said:


> Kris was to busy sleeping around with various men. Even their old nanny that wrote a book, said Kris was never around and was off being the typical Beverly Hills wife. Kris herself has stated, Bruce was the one that mainly took care of the kids. *Kris was to busy teaching Kim how to whore herself.* Bruce and Khloe basically raised Kendall and Kylie.


   Good point.  I'm seriously peeing myself over this.


The point I'm making about lack of maternal instinct extends to all the children he sired.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> He was the lesser of two evils, but I'm not giving him high praise for driving in one of his favourite luxury vehicles twice a day.



Yea, it might be different if he had said he was up all night, every night doing feedings when they were babies, changing diapers, participating in Parent Council, shopping for school supplies, attending every school function including sports, helping with homework, etc. but driving them to and from school doesn't generate a free pass from me as being a good parent.

I'm starting to believe Bruce AND NOW Caitlyn has ALWAYS been self absorbed and it seems the pattern is continuing.


----------



## ByeKitty

Decophile said:


> I completely agree with you about her mannerisms.  It's one of the more endearing things about her, that her mannerisms haven't changed.  Honestly, most gender-crossing mannerisms strike me as affectations, and get an eye roll from me.  I too thought that perhaps this is all new to her and she's enjoying the fun aspects of womanhood that can be most publicly and readily expressed.  But she has also said that this is who she's been her whole life, that Caitlyn has been hiding inside her.  I took this as a life-long self-knowledge and familiarity with what makes her know she's a woman.  I'm still waiting to hear what that is, besides the heals and makeup, that is.



I'm interested in hearing that too... But it's a very complicated thing to put in words because it is purely based on feelings - and very confusing feelings at that. Now how come you are so certain you are female? I wouldn't know how to answer that question if someone asked me. Actually, I have been asked that by friends (mostly men) because I don't present myself in an ultra-feminine way. I'll be the last one to be at a party and timidly sit in the corner in a pretty dress. I'll drink beer with my friends and tell dirty jokes. Things like that. And still...I'm a woman. I can't explain what makes me feel that I am.


----------



## Deco

ByeKitty said:


> I'm interested in hearing that too... But it's a very complicated thing to put in words because it is purely based on feelings - and very confusing feelings at that. Now how come you are so certain you are female? I wouldn't know how to answer that question if someone asked me. Actually, I have been asked that by friends (mostly men) because I don't present myself in an ultra-feminine way. I'll be the last one to be at a party and timidly sit in the corner in a pretty dress. I'll drink beer with my friends and tell dirty jokes. Things like that. And still...I'm a woman. I can't explain what makes me feel that I am.


 You have hit precisely on why I'm interested in Caitlyn's answer/explanation.  Because I don't have an answer for myself either.  I can rattle off characteristics that tend more female than male based on cultural consensus of what each means, and on that spectrum, I'm closer to the male end.  But neither have I ever rejected or been repulsed by my sex assignment, and in fact really enjoy being a woman.  Because you and I are not offended by what we see in the mirror, and because we're generally comfortable with the sex/gender nature assigned to us, we've never had to articulate what it means for us to be women and whether that role accurately represents us.  I see myself as a out of the mainstream of what it means to be a woman.  I mostly feel like a woman by default, because I'm happy in my skin and have no reason to change it.


It's a different story when you make a drastic and very difficult change.  There is a strong force propelling you. There has got to be more there, more of a concrete sense of identity, that makes you clash with the sex nature assigned to you.  "Yeah, it works for me" is harder to describe/articulate than "it violates every cell in my body".  But I can also see your point about it being an overwhelming feeling that defies description.


----------



## pukasonqo

fightthesunrise said:


> +1




65 yrs as a male, regardless of how she felt inside she has a lifetime of behaviours,cliches, manerisms, etc to challenge
crossing gender boundaries is not easy, caitlyn is lucky she had the $$$ to do it without being dependant on anyone but there is also the psychological impact on 
herself and her children to take into account
PMK seems not to care much about it, maybe because she knew what caitlyn as bruce was about?
but i would like to see more from her towards the LGBT community than just a balloon release and a reality TV show

disclaimer:english is my second language so i am hoping this post makes sense!


----------



## JetSetGo!

pukasonqo said:


> 65 yrs as a male, regardless of how she felt inside she has a lifetime of behaviours,cliches, manerisms, etc to challenge
> crossing gender boundaries is not easy, caitlyn is lucky she had the $$$ to do it without being dependant on anyone but there is also the psychological impact on
> herself and her children to take into account
> PMK seems not to care much about it, maybe because she knew what caitlyn as bruce was about?
> but i would like to see more from her towards the LGBT community than just a balloon release and a reality TV show
> 
> disclaimer:english is my second language so i am hoping this post makes sense!



Makes sense to me!


----------



## chowlover2

I am watching I am Jess and it's fascinating. Dealing with the whole family vs glossing over things with pap walks and photoshoots.


----------



## pukasonqo

JetSetGo! said:


> Makes sense to me!




thank you! [emoji253]


----------



## ChanelMommy

pukasonqo said:


> 65 yrs as a male, regardless of how she felt inside she has a lifetime of behaviours,cliches, manerisms, etc to challenge
> crossing gender boundaries is not easy, caitlyn is lucky she had the $$$ to do it without being dependant on anyone but there is also the psychological impact on
> herself and her children to take into account
> PMK seems not to care much about it, maybe because she knew what caitlyn as bruce was about?
> but i would like to see more from her towards the LGBT community than just a balloon release and a reality TV show
> 
> disclaimer:english is my second language so i am hoping this post makes sense!



This..


----------



## chowlover2

Let's face it, we called this month's ago when we heard the series was going to be on E! It would have been a shock if it dealt with things in a serious manner.


----------



## shiny_things

I think the wealth thing is less of an issue in the UK where you get it all for free on the NHS. The only things you have too pay for are things the are not deemed neccessary for your transition e.g getting a boob job if the hormones have already given you a good pair.


----------



## dooneybaby

Sasha2012 said:


>



OK. This is way off topic, but I have to say it when I look at Kanye. I HATE when men have that one or two rolls of skin in the back of their heads. It doesn't matter how fat or skinny a guy is, some just have it and some don't.  
(Just a personal dislike, can't explain it.)


----------



## Sassys

Like I said, people in LA rent luxury cars for a few days all the time.

Caitlyn Jenner's $400,000 Lamborghini rental leaves her Malibu home... as transgender star pens latest WhoSay blog about suicide

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...der-star-pens-latest-WhoSay-blog-suicide.html


----------



## bag-mania

^I love the truck with the giant windows. Not what an average repo man would drive!


----------



## ByeKitty

shiny_things said:


> I think the wealth thing is less of an issue in the UK where you get it all for free on the NHS. The only things you have too pay for are things the are not deemed neccessary for your transition e.g getting a boob job if the hormones have already given you a good pair.



Hmm good point, the US healthcare system seems really unaffordable and they don't have a structured insurance policy as we do here. Still, not all of this is about being able to buy a pair of boobs - people seem to forget that although money can make the process of transitioning a little easier, it doesn't alleviate the struggle of keeping this a secret and the fear of coming out.


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> Like I said, people in LA rent luxury cars for a few days all the time.
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner's $400,000 Lamborghini rental leaves her Malibu home... as transgender star pens latest WhoSay blog about suicide
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...der-star-pens-latest-WhoSay-blog-suicide.html



You were right. 

Nevertheless, Cait's show is all about the flash and not a lot of substance.  She is so far removed, it's odd.


----------



## Jayne1

shiny_things said:


> I think the wealth thing is less of an issue in the UK where you get it all for free on the NHS. The only things you have too pay for are things the are not deemed neccessary for your transition e.g getting a boob job if the hormones have already given you a good pair.



So, in other words, nothing cosmetic.  

That might mean almost everything Cait has done, would not be paid for in the UK  forehead, brow, eyes, nose, lips, teeth, adams apple(?), chin, jaw, implants, skin resurfacing and laser 

Isn't it still a wealth thing in the UK if they won't pay to look more female, or what Cait thinks looks more female?


----------



## RueMonge

Decophile said:


> You have hit precisely on why I'm interested in Caitlyn's answer/explanation.  Because I don't have an answer for myself either.  I can rattle off characteristics that tend more female than male based on cultural consensus of what each means, and on that spectrum, I'm closer to the male end.  But neither have I ever rejected or been repulsed by my sex assignment, and in fact really enjoy being a woman.  Because you and I are not offended by what we see in the mirror, and because we're generally comfortable with the sex/gender nature assigned to us, we've never had to articulate what it means for us to be women and whether that role accurately represents us.  I see myself as a out of the mainstream of what it means to be a woman.  I mostly feel like a woman by default, because I'm happy in my skin and have no reason to change it.
> 
> 
> It's a different story when you make a drastic and very difficult change.  There is a strong force propelling you. There has got to be more there, more of a concrete sense of identity, that makes you clash with the sex nature assigned to you.  "Yeah, it works for me" is harder to describe/articulate than "it violates every cell in my body".  But I can also see your point about it being an overwhelming feeling that defies description.



This discussion between you and ByeKitty is one of the more interesting in this thread. Thank you.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Decophile said:


> I'm about to frolic onto a theoretical tangent.  In a time and place where gender roles and definitions are clearly established and oppressively enforced, the struggle would be much more pronounced and this discourse much more critical.  But in today's more relaxed and accepting environment (yes, I know large swaths of horror still exist, but let's face it, Caitlyn doesn't swim in those ponds), what is the point of agonizing over calling yourself a woman, expecting it to signal certain defined characteristics to the world, but intending it to mean only what you want it to mean?  I'm all for ambiguity and evolving beyond the constraints of tradition.   Of course she's free to do whatever she wants and to define her own true self.  I'm lost when she dramatically invokes a label (woman) to publicize who she is, but unfettered freedom in personalizing what that means negates the significance and purpose of that label.  To me it looks like she means that she wants to wear dresses and makeup and to be known as a woman, because that's all she's expressed.  That's perfectly fine, but is there more to her womanhood than that?  Is that the extent of her definition of woman?   That's a valid question, and one I would never pose to a transitioning person, but I will in our own discussion community.   If that is all she means, why does any of it matter?  If "woman" is a customizable, malleable label that can mean whatever as each person defines it, why place so much importance on the label at all?  If "sugar free" can mean anything from zero sugar to made of solid cane sugar to none of your business how much sugar, why use the label at all?  If gender is what each individual says it is, without any need for a baseline consensus on what it means, then it all becomes meaningless.
> Incidentally, I'm all for meaningless also.  I don't object to diluting, bending, changing the meanings of labels, eradicating them altogether, so long as you acknowledge that's what you're doing and you can articulate a reason why the label ought to be retired.  There is nothing wrong with gender neutrality or duality, and it might be where evolution will take us anyway.





RueMonge said:


> This discussion between you and ByeKitty is one of the more interesting in this thread. Thank you.



Agreed.  Where have you been hiding Decophile?  I want to read more of your posts!


----------



## shiny_things

Jayne1 said:


> So, in other words, nothing cosmetic.
> 
> That might mean almost everything Cait has done, would not be paid for in the UK  forehead, brow, eyes, nose, lips, teeth, adams apple(?), chin, jaw, implants, skin resurfacing and laser
> 
> Isn't it still a wealth thing in the UK if they won't pay to look more female, or what Cait thinks looks more female?



No you can get surgery to make your face more feminine or masculine for free, that's fine. It's more surgery that doesn't particularly fit into the 'transition' stuff, for example lipo, lips fillers etc. Nose jobs, brow lifts, bone shaving etc is normally paid for by the NHS.


----------



## DesigningStyle

shiny_things said:


> No you can get surgery to make your face more feminine or masculine for free, that's fine. It's more surgery that doesn't particularly fit into the 'transition' stuff, for example lipo, lips fillers etc. Nose jobs, brow lifts, bone shaving etc is normally paid for by the NHS.



I am confused about what you are saying.  No you can?


----------



## Sassys

Just read Caitlyn's ratings were not go for her premiere 


7/28/15


----------



## Jayne1

shiny_things said:


> No you can get surgery to make your face more feminine or masculine for free, that's fine. It's more surgery that doesn't particularly fit into the 'transition' stuff, for example lipo, lips fillers etc. Nose jobs, brow lifts, bone shaving etc is normally paid for by the NHS.



Interesting.  Who decides if a nose is done for free on the NHS.  I think Bruce's original nose would have been fine and certainly his newer noses, yet he wanted a turned up Janet Jackson nose&#8230; would the UK pay for that. 

The brow thing makes sense, I didn't realize men's brows were so different.


----------



## shiny_things

DesigningStyle said:


> I am confused about what you are saying.  No you can?



Sorry, there was supposed to be a comma after 'no'.



Jayne1 said:


> Interesting.  Who decides if a nose is done for free on the NHS.  I think Bruce's original nose would have been fine and certainly his newer noses, yet he wanted a turned up Janet Jackson nose would the UK pay for that.
> 
> The brow thing makes sense, I didn't realize men's brows were so different.



Those sort of decisions would be made by the individual NHS board for whatever person that area lived in. It can be a bit of a postcode lottery in that one place might do a certain treatment, whilst another may not.


----------



## manons88

In my country The netherlands you get the transition surgery for free. There are children who are going to school as a girl instead as a boy (born)  by the age of 12 and vice versa. When they are 16 they get  hormone treatment.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I was really hoping the show would have shown more of the facial feminization surgery she got, picking out outfits, and more of the transition. I did miss the first 20 minutes of the show, though, so I'm not sure what was shown in the beginning.


----------



## Jayne1

blackkitty4378 said:


> I was really hoping the show would have shown more of the facial feminization surgery she got, picking out outfits, and more of the transition. I did miss the first 20 minutes of the show, though, so I'm not sure what was shown in the beginning.



Not much. We meet up with Cait as she is about to introduce herself to her family. Her people are getting her ready as you would expect from any celeb who needs a stylist.

It was mostly the after,  we don't get to see the process ... and I got bored and turned it off!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Yea, if she's gonna put it out there, she needs to put all of it. I wanted to see the recovery during and after all the surgeries and that sorta thing too. It's as though one minute there was Bruce, and all of a sudden *I'll take what's behind door #3* and there was Caitlyn. She made it look all too easy.
I'm surprised the ratings were so low, I expected it to be a bigger hit.


----------



## DesigningStyle

Coach Lover Too said:


> Yea, if she's gonna put it out there, she needs to put all of it. I wanted to see the recovery during and after all the surgeries and that sorta thing too. It's as though one minute there was Bruce, and all of a sudden *I'll take what's behind door #3* and there was Caitlyn. She made it look all too easy.
> I'm surprised the ratings were so low, I expected it to be a bigger hit.



I didn't even know it was airing.  When did it air?


----------



## ForeverYoung87

blackkitty4378 said:


> I was really hoping the show would have shown more of the facial feminization surgery she got, picking out outfits, and more of the transition. I did miss the first 20 minutes of the show, though, so I'm not sure what was shown in the beginning.



I'm sure there would of been a lot of criticism from the transgender community if she did since a lot of them like Laverne have said that the surgies shouldn't be the main topic. 


In the preview for upcoming episodes it looked like one of the friends made a comment about how they were worried people would think its all about hair, makeup, etc.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Yea, if she's gonna put it out there, she needs to put all of it. I wanted to see the recovery during and after all the surgeries and that sorta thing too. It's as though one minute there was Bruce, and all of a sudden *I'll take what's behind door #3* and there was Caitlyn. She made it look all too easy.
> I'm surprised the ratings were so low, I expected it to be a bigger hit.



I didn't.  Honestly I think people are just over it.  Between I am Cait and the teen transgender's show, it can be overwhelming.  It's almost like 'we get it'


----------



## Jayne1

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I'm sure there would of been a lot of criticism from the transgender community if she did since a lot of them like Laverne have said that the surgies shouldn't be the main topic.
> 
> 
> In the preview for upcoming episodes it looked like one of the friends made a comment about how they were worried people would think its all about hair, makeup, etc.



I know it shouldn't be the main topic, and it isn't&#8230; but if a guy suddenly appears looking like a pretty woman, very feminine, I want to know how they did it. certainly other older guys wanting to transition should know it isn't just a stylist and makeup. 

I do really want to understand what Cait went through&#8230; it isn't just all roses, is it?


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Jayne1 said:


> I know it shouldn't be the main topic, and it isn't but if a guy suddenly appears looking like a pretty woman, very feminine, I want to know how they did it. certainly other older guys wanting to transition should know it isn't just a stylist and makeup.
> 
> I do really want to understand what Cait went through it isn't just all roses, is it?



Maybe since they sorta talked about it on that special and in the VF interview they didn't feel like it was necessary to talk about it again idk?  Or who knows maybe she will only one episode aired so far.


----------



## Sassys

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Maybe since they sorta talked about it on that special and in the VF interview they didn't feel like it was necessary to talk about it again idk?  Or who knows maybe she will only one episode aired so far.


 
Doubt it. She said during the Diane Sawyer interview, she wasn't bringing the cameras for the actually surgery and recovery.


----------



## Docjeun

Sassys said:


> Just read Caitlyn's ratings were not go for her premiere
> 
> 
> 7/28/15


Good!


----------



## Docjeun

DC-Cutie said:


> I didn't.  Honestly I think people are just over it.  Between I am Cait and the teen transgender's show, it can be overwhelming.  It's almost like 'we get it'


I have to say that when I read your posts I love what you have to say as far as your destiny, that is so major in so many peoples lives and they just don't get it.   Good for you!


----------



## Docjeun

Is there anyone here who is transgender and what do you think about all of this?


----------



## Jayne1

Still filming and probably one of the last episodes, ending on an even happier note.   (Just an assumption.)

*Caitlyn and Kris
Let's Talk Girl to Girl*



> Kris Jenner went to Caitlyn's Tuesday to bury the hatchet ... TMZ has learned.
> Kris' car was spotted leaving Caitlyn's Malibu home after their meeting ... their first meeting since the transformation.
> 
> Sources connected to the former couple tell us, Kris had not met Caitlyn. There was real bitterness following their split, made worse by Bruce who had some harsh things to say about Kris and her reality show during the Diane Sawyer interview.
> 
> We're told Kris is feeling bad that a nearly 30 year relationship has gone down in flames to the point they almost never even speak. On top of that, they share children and therefore will always be a family.
> 
> Our sources say they talked out some of their issues and it went well. We're told it got very personal ... as you know, there are multiple versions of what Kris knew and when she knew it.
> 
> As for the future, at least from Kris' side ... she's hopeful this is a fresh beginning.



http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/29/caitlyn-jenner-kris-jenner-first-meeting-transformation-malibu-house/


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> Still filming and probably one of the last episodes, ending on an even happier note.   (Just an assumption.)
> 
> *Caitlyn and Kris
> Let's Talk Girl to Girl*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2015/07/29/caitlyn-jenner-kris-jenner-first-meeting-transformation-malibu-house/



I believe they are filming since she has a car service taking her to the house. 

Going for the ratings grab. 

I am _positive _  that I saw PMK's name as one of the executive producers for "I am cait" when the show was first announced but now she isn't listed.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DesigningStyle said:


> I didn't even know it was airing.  When did it air?



It came on Sunday evening, the 26th on E Network.


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.justjared.com/2015/07/29/caitlyn-jenner-steps-out-after-meeting-with-kris-jenner/

Caitlyn Jenner is pretty in polka dots while getting out of a car and heading into The Churchill for some lunch on Wednesday afternoon (July 29) in West Hollywood, Calif.

The 65-year-old former Olympian was joined by Candis Cayne.

Last week 2 transgender women were murdered. No one should be killed because they are transgender, Cailtyn recently tweeted.

The day before, Caitlyn reportedly got a visit at her home from ex-wife Kris Jenner for the first time since debuting her Vanity Fair cover.


----------



## californiaCRUSH

I don't want to get into the hot mess debates in here but Caitlyn has been working some cute outfits.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> I believe they are filming since she has a car service taking her to the house.
> 
> Going for the ratings grab.
> 
> I am _positive _  that I saw PMK's name as one of the executive producers for "I am cait" when the show was first announced but now she isn't listed.



Also, Kris wants to look good, she wants to show she is supportive, now that the public has shown they are.


----------



## DesigningStyle

That polka dot outfit and those shoes are not flattering at all.  Horrible.


----------



## pukasonqo

Jayne1 said:


> Also, Kris wants to look good, she wants to show she is supportive, now that the public has shown they are.




PMK wants her pound of flesh
i like the polka dot blouse!


----------



## michie

DesigningStyle said:


> That polka dot outfit and those shoes are not flattering at all.  Horrible.



Very Dorothy Zbornak...


----------



## chowlover2

michie said:


> Very Dorothy Zbornak...




Agreed!


----------



## SOLIDGOLD2

His legs look bad


----------



## ByeKitty

I actually don't really mind the last outfit... Not in love with the sandals but they are simple and look comfortable so...a-okay!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Not one of my favorite looks she's done but they can't all be winners. I like the long skirts better.


----------



## knasarae

chowlover2 said:


> I am watching I am Jess and it's fascinating. Dealing with the whole family vs glossing over things with pap walks and photoshoots.



What show is this?


----------



## Sassys

knasarae said:


> What show is this?



Its called *I Am Jazz*. Its a about a trandenger 14yr old boy to female. Jazz first came on the scene when she was 5yrs old and 20/20 with Barbara Walters did a special on her. I have been following her ever since (I was so facinated by her story). Her show is on TLC Wednesdays at 10pm est.


----------



## knasarae

Sassys said:


> Its called *I Am Jazz*. Its a about a trandenger 13yr old boy to female. Jazz first came on the scene when she was 5yrs old and 20/20 with Barbara Walters did a special on her. I have been following her ever since (I was so facinated by her story).



Oh ok, yes! I am watching that show as well.  I am absolutely fascinated by how brave and confident she is at such a young age.


----------



## chowlover2

knasarae said:


> What show is this?




It's on TLC, Monday night I think. Jazz is about 13 now. Was born a he, knew at 2 he was meant to be a girl. Has 2 older brothers and an older sister. Very normal Mom & Dad, minivan kind of family I the suburbs. Started seeing Drs when Jazz was 3. You see her going to pediatric endocrinologist so she won't go into male puberty and grow a beard and have voice deepen. Right now she wants boobs to develop. Working with Drs, I don't believe she can do any surgeries until she is of legal age. A very realistic view of a normal family and the experiences Jazz faces at school and with friends. The whole family is onboard and very supportive, even the grandparents. Much more fascinating than Cait.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> Its called *I Am Jazz*. Its a about a trandenger 14yr old boy to female. Jazz first came on the scene when she was 5yrs old and 20/20 with Barbara Walters did a special on her. I have been following her ever since (I was so facinated by her story). Her show is on TLC Wednesdays at 10pm est.





I find her amazing!


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> I find her amazing!



Me too! I first heard abut her 10yrs ago, flipping through tv one night. She really opened my eyes to the transgendered world.


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> It's on TLC, Monday night I think. Jazz is about 13 now. Was born a he, knew at 2 he was meant to be a girl. Has 2 older brothers and an older sister. Very normal Mom & Dad, minivan kind of family I the suburbs. Started seeing Drs when Jazz was 3. You see her going to pediatric endocrinologist so she won't go into male puberty and grow a beard and have voice deepen. Right now she wants boobs to develop. Working with Drs, I don't believe she can do any surgeries until she is of legal age. A very realistic view of a normal family and the experiences Jazz faces at school and with friends. The whole family is onboard and very supportive, even the grandparents. Much more fascinating than Cait.



Maybe you know the answer to this, because I was a bit confused by a special she did at 11. If she is on hrmones, does that mean she won't produce spem and can't have biological children of her own? I remember her mother being concerned by that.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> Maybe you know the answer to this, because I was a bit confused by a special she did at 11. If she is on hrmones, does that mean she won't produce spem and can't have biological children of her own? I remember her mother being concerned by that.




The meds she is taking keep her testicles at a certain size, if they get above that size, that's when hormones are released. The Dr had what looked like a necklace of men's testicles at each year of puberty. Jazz sees the Dr, and he measures the size to make sure they don't grow past say 12 yr old size. He did mention upping her hormones as she wants boobs. I honestly don't know if she is producing sperm, I am guessing not if female characteristics start to emerge. If she had make hormones there would be a beard and her voice would deepen. About having biological children, I haven't seen anything about that yet either. I imagine she could freeze her sperm, but Drs made it sound as if she wanted surgery to make a vagina, it would have to wait til she was at least 18 or 21. And I have to say, I agree with the Drs on that.


----------



## dangerouscurves

chowlover2 said:


> It's on TLC, Monday night I think. Jazz is about 13 now. Was born a he, knew at 2 he was meant to be a girl. Has 2 older brothers and an older sister. Very normal Mom & Dad, minivan kind of family I the suburbs. Started seeing Drs when Jazz was 3. You see her going to pediatric endocrinologist so she won't go into male puberty and grow a beard and have voice deepen. Right now she wants boobs to develop. Working with Drs, I don't believe she can do any surgeries until she is of legal age. A very realistic view of a normal family and the experiences Jazz faces at school and with friends. The whole family is onboard and very supportive, even the grandparents. Much more fascinating than Cait.




One of the reasons why transitioning early in life is the best.


----------



## labelwhore04

dangerouscurves said:


> One of the reasons why transitioning early in life is the best.



Yep and early transition worked wonders for Jazz because you would never be able to tell that she was born male.


----------



## chowlover2

labelwhore04 said:


> Yep and early transition worked wonders for Jazz because you would never be able to tell that she was born male.




That's the truth! Jazz is adorable! 

It's terrible, Cait has spent all this money to look feminine and all I see when I look at her is Bruce with big hands and feet. I wonder if she would have looked more feminine if she transitioned in the '80's rather than marrying Kris J? Bruce had a more feminine, non plastic look then.


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> Maybe you know the answer to this, because I was a bit confused by a special she did at 11. If she is on hrmones, does that mean she won't produce spem and can't have biological children of her own? I remember her mother being concerned by that.




Just watching tonight's episode. I think we will learn more next week. Jazz says she can adopt or use a surrogate. Her sister volunteers, but Jazz wants 8 kids!


----------



## shiny_things

Sassys said:


> Doubt it. She said during the Diane Sawyer interview, she wasn't bringing the cameras for the actually surgery and recovery.



To be fair a lot of transgender people are extremely private about that. I have a few trans patients and even though we have a great theraputic relationship, most refuse to discuss it.



Trulyadiva said:


> Is there anyone here who is transgender and what do you think about all of this?



Not Trans, but I have some Trans patients who for the most part think what Cait is doing is great. They don't neccessarily love the courting the paps, but the overall thing of getting the message out there seems to override that.


----------



## knasarae

I haven't seen last night's episode yet... I will watch today.  But I thought in the last episode when Jazz visited the doctor she said she wasn't sure if she would have the re-assignment surgery?  I can't remember exactly what she said but it was something to the affect that she was just used to it (she gestured downward so I assume she meant her penis) being down there.  It confused me a bit because I would think that someone who was very clearly able to articulate at such a young age how she felt and has been adamant ever since would most definitely want to have the surgery once she was of age.  Did I misinterpret that?

Does Jazz have a thread in the television and cinema?  I would love to discuss this show with others!


----------



## Sassys

knasarae said:


> I haven't seen last night's episode yet... I will watch today.  But I thought in the last episode when Jazz visited the doctor she said she wasn't sure if she would have the re-assignment surgery?  I can't remember exactly what she said but it was something to the affect that she was just used to it (she gestured downward so I assume she meant her penis) being down there.  It confused me a bit because I would think that someone who was very clearly able to articulate at such a young age how she felt and has been adamant ever since would most definitely want to have the surgery once she was of age.  Did I misinterpret that?
> 
> Does Jazz have a thread in the television and cinema?  I would love to discuss this show with others!



I agree, I thought that was odd. I just started a thread for her show in the TV section


----------



## DC-Cutie

I watched the first episode of I am Jazz and maybe somebody can answer, how has the school district dealt with her transition?  Because she is still a young boy, does she use the boys room?  How do other children deal with it?


----------



## DC-Cutie

shiny_things said:


> To be fair a lot of transgender people are extremely private about that. I have a few trans patients and even though we have a great theraputic relationship, most refuse to discuss it.



I have to agree with you on this.  One of my best friends went though gender reassignment procedure.  She had it done in Thailand (where she's from).  While she was there we talked often, but she never really discussed the surgery itself and I never asked for details.  However, over the years she's discussed tidbits (I was surprised when she asked if I wanted to see her new vagina - we laugh about that because it was a random question on a very random day).  Very fascinating.  

She always looked really soft and feminine as a boy (even her voice), so not much had to be done to her face and she didn't go get new lips, cheeks, hairline, etc.  She had her eyes done, a slight lift.  To this day nobody would ever guess.  She's absolutely beautiful, damn near stunning - but not over the top.  Her doctor did a bangup job.

She's now married and living life to the fullest


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> I watched the first episode of I am Jazz and maybe somebody can answer, how has the school district dealt with her transition?  Because she is still a young boy, does she use the boys room?  How do other children deal with it?



She started kindergarten as a girl but the teachers knew the truth. That paticular school had unisex bathrooms and sports teams. I don't recall her mentioning what she uses now; I'm sure the girls bathroom. Since she was 5 kids are not allowed to sleep over at her house or vice versa unless the kid and their parents know the truth and are okay with it. That has always been her parents rule. She has tons of girlfriends but the boys are not comfortable around her and basically avoid her. She worries because all her girlfriends are boy crazy and it will get worst once she starts high school this year.


----------



## mama13drama99

michie said:


> Very Dorothy Zbornak...




Leave my girl, Dorothy, alone [emoji38][emoji23][emoji38][emoji23]...she deserves a better comparison!


----------



## mama13drama99

DesigningStyle said:


> That polka dot outfit and those shoes are not flattering at all.  Horrible.




Terrible!


----------



## knasarae

DC-Cutie said:


> I watched the first episode of I am Jazz and maybe somebody can answer, how has the school district dealt with her transition?  Because she is still a young boy, does she use the boys room?  How do other children deal with it?



I know her parents went through a two-year trial about her not being allowed to play soccer on the girl's team.  Now she can.  I would think she is allowed to use the girl's restroom too... I can't see her parents having her go to a school where she couldn't.  



DC-Cutie said:


> I have to agree with you on this.  One of my best friends went though gender reassignment procedure.  She had it done in Thailand (where she's from).  While she was there we talked often, but she never really discussed the surgery itself and I never asked for details.  However, over the years she's discussed tidbits (I was surprised when she asked if I wanted to see her new vagina - we laugh about that because it was a random question on a very random day).  Very fascinating.
> 
> She always looked really soft and feminine as a boy (even her voice), so not much had to be done to her face and she didn't go get new lips, cheeks, hairline, etc.  She had her eyes done, a slight lift.  To this day nobody would ever guess.  She's absolutely beautiful, damn near stunning - but not over the top.  Her doctor did a bangup job.
> 
> She's now married and living life to the fullest



That great she was able to find happiness.

I got curious one day and looked at "after" pictures of re-assignment for male to female.  It was amazing.  Creation of the vaginal tunnel/canal whatever you wanna call it... I still don't quite understand how that is possible.  But wow.  Strangely enough I couldn't find much for female to male.


----------



## michie

mama13drama99 said:


> Leave my girl, Dorothy, alone [emoji38][emoji23][emoji38][emoji23]...she deserves a better comparison!



Dorothy is my girl, too, but she had the ugliest clothes/shoes on the show. Real talk.


----------



## chowlover2

DC-Cutie said:


> I have to agree with you on this.  One of my best friends went though gender reassignment procedure.  She had it done in Thailand (where she's from).  While she was there we talked often, but she never really discussed the surgery itself and I never asked for details.  However, over the years she's discussed tidbits (I was surprised when she asked if I wanted to see her new vagina - we laugh about that because it was a random question on a very random day).  Very fascinating.
> 
> 
> 
> She always looked really soft and feminine as a boy (even her voice), so not much had to be done to her face and she didn't go get new lips, cheeks, hairline, etc.  She had her eyes done, a slight lift.  To this day nobody would ever guess.  She's absolutely beautiful, damn near stunning - but not over the top.  Her doctor did a bangup job.
> 
> 
> 
> She's now married and living life to the fullest




That's wonderful! If I were a man and transgender, I would want the male body parts gone ASAP so I could feel and live like a woman. I can't wrap my head around dressing and acting like a woman, but keeping my male parts. Of course that's my problem. Really lovely your friend found and married someone who loves her for herself too!


----------



## skarsbabe

I can see how Jazz is far more influential and motivational for the community than Jenner is.

Jazz doesn't have a 'before' life like Jenner. It's literally all she knows. I can bet she's reaching the hardest part of her journey - keeping puberty away, trying to get boys to like her - but it is going to be so tough and though I find her interesting, I feel a bit sad that there will be cameras to capture it all for the world to see. 

Kids are cruel these days, and even if Jazz finds a boy who is understanding of the situation, other kids won't have a problem teasing that boy, etc.


----------



## mama13drama99

michie said:


> Dorothy is my girl, too, but she had the ugliest clothes/shoes on the show. Real talk.




LOL!  I truly loved them all.  When they (the three) passed away, my friend and sister called each time to check on me.  She did wear horrible clothes and shoes.  I guess because she was SOOOO tall.  That couldn't have been common, especially when her career first began.  I think, and this could have been later in her life, she had wide shoulders and hips.  So maybe all of the "baggy" clothes were to hide those features as well.

Edited to stay on topic:

I have no doubt that the same things I described above are probably things that Caitlyn will be forced to contend with for a long time, if not forever.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner proved herself once again in the fashion stakes when she dined at Eva Longoria's restaurant Beso in Hollywood on Wednesday evening.

The 65-year-old reality star pulled out all the stops in a chic black jumpsuit that featured a sweetheart cut neckline.

With a matching leather purse slung over her shoulder, Caitlyn offset the look with her flawless baby pink manicure and pedicure. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Longoria-s-restaurant-Beso.html#ixzz3hPlwCf7F


----------



## DC-Cutie

Nice jumpsuit


----------



## Bentley1

michie said:


> Very Dorothy Zbornak...




Lmao! I hate you! [emoji23][emoji28][emoji106]


----------



## mistikat

Can someone please teach her how to accessorize? That huge boxy purse does not go with everything. In fact, it seems to go with very little she wears.


----------



## mama13drama99

DC-Cutie said:


> Nice jumpsuit




IT REALLY IS NICE (I wish she had carried that sweater/jacket-thing and hope she had it in case she got cold).


----------



## lanasyogamama

DC-Cutie said:


> I watched the first episode of I am Jazz and maybe somebody can answer, how has the school district dealt with her transition?  Because she is still a young boy, does she use the boys room?  How do other children deal with it?



A kid transitioned from identifying as a girl to a boy in between k and 1st grade at my daughter's school, he uses the boys room now.  I heard the boys were a little put off at first, but it's been a year now and my daughter told me nobody cares.


----------



## ChanelMommy

chowlover2 said:


> Just watching tonight's episode. I think we will learn more next week. Jazz says she can adopt or use a surrogate. Her sister volunteers, but Jazz wants 8 kids!



I tried to look up the first episode on youtube because we do not have cable and it's not playable they are all fake links. Bummer.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Oh my eyes. No to the last look.


----------



## Hobbsy

Cait....get a new bag.


----------



## bag-mania

mistikat said:


> Can someone please teach her how to accessorize? That huge boxy purse does not go with everything. In fact, it seems to go with very little she wears.



She needs to become a member here. 
Several years ago I used to have just one purse at a time. After my first year on tPF my closets were bursting with bags.


----------



## schadenfreude

DC-Cutie said:


> I have to agree with you on this.  One of my best friends went though gender reassignment procedure.  She had it done in Thailand (where she's from).  While she was there we talked often, but she never really discussed the surgery itself and I never asked for details.  However, over the years she's discussed tidbits (I was surprised when she asked if I wanted to see her new vagina - we laugh about that because it was a random question on a very random day).  Very fascinating.
> 
> She always looked really soft and feminine as a boy (even her voice), so not much had to be done to her face and she didn't go get new lips, cheeks, hairline, etc.  She had her eyes done, a slight lift.  To this day nobody would ever guess.  She's absolutely beautiful, damn near stunning - but not over the top.  Her doctor did a bangup job.
> 
> She's now married and living life to the fullest





knasarae said:


> I got curious one day and looked at "after" pictures of re-assignment for male to female.  It was amazing.  Creation of the vaginal tunnel/canal whatever you wanna call it... I still don't quite understand how that is possible.  But wow.  Strangely enough I couldn't find much for female to male.



I did a pelvic exam on a post op M --> F when I was a med student. Amazing. Honestly -- you'd never know if she didn't tell you. Spectacular job by the surgeon.

Basically they use the skin from the scrotum and invert it to make a neovagina. It's strongly recommended that the patient do some kind of permanent hair removal because otherwise they have a hairy vagina, like literally the inside is hairy, and it's supposed to smell pretty bad. Lasers weren't everywhere back then so the patients would get electrolysis on the scrotum preoperatively. They'd come by the clinic, we'd hit them with a local anesthetic, and then they'd go to the electrolysis place. 

Somehow they fashion a clitoris from the glans (head) of the penis (male analogue if the clit since it has the highest concentration of nerve endings). I remember asking the patient I examined if everything, you know, WORKED, and she was like, girl, YES! (Obviously she was super open and happy to talk about her experience... I wouldn't have asked otherwise!)

I hope theres something left of this post after it gets censored...


----------



## chowlover2

schadenfreude said:


> I did a pelvic exam on a post op M --> F when I was a med student. Amazing. Honestly -- you'd never know if she didn't tell you. Spectacular job by the surgeon.
> 
> 
> 
> Basically they use the skin from the scrotum and invert it to make a neovagina. It's strongly recommended that the patient do some kind of permanent hair removal because otherwise they have a hairy vagina, like literally the inside is hairy, and it's supposed to smell pretty bad. Lasers weren't everywhere back then so the patients would get electrolysis on the scrotum preoperatively. They'd come by the clinic, we'd hit them with a local anesthetic, and then they'd go to the electrolysis place.
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow they fashion a clitoris from the glans (head) of the penis (male analogue if the clit since it has the highest concentration of nerve endings). I remember asking the patient I examined if everything, you know, WORKED, and she was like, girl, YES! (Obviously she was super open and happy to talk about her experience... I wouldn't have asked otherwise!)
> 
> 
> 
> I hope theres something left of this post after it gets censored...




Have you ever seen a post op female to male?


----------



## schadenfreude

chowlover2 said:


> Have you ever seen a post op female to male?



I have not. It is such an infinitely more complex surgery with far more complications. I've known a couple F-->M individuals who religiously bound their breasts and planned mastectomies, but didn't have plans to go all the way. A M-->F can get reassignment surgery in Asia for less than $10k, but to go F-->M is *at least* twice that -- and that's just the genitals. (Here's a surgery price list from a transgender specialty surgical center in Philadelphia - http://www.thetransgendercenter.com/index.php/femaletomale1/ftm-price-list.html)

Here's a journal article that summarizes the various methods for F-->M surgery (warning: graphic images and lots of technical jargon):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312187/

And lastly, while Googling the cost of F-->M surgery, I came across an interesting site about post ops with regret. The story of Samantha Kane, introduced with the statement "Then we have those who "change sex" on a whim and have the financial means to do so, then afterwards have regrets and sue everyone in sight who "did this to them" - while not taking any responsibility whatsoever for their own actions." - makes me wonder about Bruce/Caitlyn. 

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html


----------



## chowlover2

schadenfreude said:


> I have not. It is such an infinitely more complex surgery with far more complications. I've known a couple F-->M individuals who religiously bound their breasts and planned mastectomies, but didn't have plans to go all the way. A M-->F can get reassignment surgery in Asia for less than $10k, but to go F-->M is *at least* twice that -- and that's just the genitals. (Here's a surgery price list from a transgender specialty surgical center in Philadelphia - http://www.thetransgendercenter.com/index.php/femaletomale1/ftm-price-list.html)
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a journal article that summarizes the various methods for F-->M surgery (warning: graphic images and lots of technical jargon):
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312187/
> 
> 
> 
> And lastly, while Googling the cost of F-->M surgery, I came across an interesting site about post ops with regret. The story of Samantha Kane, introduced with the statement "Then we have those who "change sex" on a whim and have the financial means to do so, then afterwards have regrets and sue everyone in sight who "did this to them" - while not taking any responsibility whatsoever for their own actions." - makes me wonder about Bruce/Caitlyn.
> 
> 
> 
> http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html




Wow! Thanks do much for posting! It's funny, I live outside Philly and worked there many years, had no idea such a surgery center existed. Hard to imagine an individual going through all that surgery on a whim. So much time and $$$ spent to do so.


----------



## Jayne1

schadenfreude said:


> I did a pelvic exam on a post op M --> F when I was a med student. Amazing. Honestly -- you'd never know if she didn't tell you. Spectacular job by the surgeon.
> 
> Basically they use the skin from the scrotum and invert it to make a neovagina. It's strongly recommended that the patient do some kind of permanent hair removal because otherwise they have a hairy vagina, like literally the inside is hairy, and it's supposed to smell pretty bad. Lasers weren't everywhere back then so the patients would get electrolysis on the scrotum preoperatively. They'd come by the clinic, we'd hit them with a local anesthetic, and then they'd go to the electrolysis place.
> 
> Somehow they fashion a clitoris from the glans (head) of the penis (male analogue if the clit since it has the highest concentration of nerve endings). I remember asking the patient I examined if everything, you know, WORKED, and she was like, girl, YES! (Obviously she was super open and happy to talk about her experience... I wouldn't have asked otherwise!)
> 
> I hope theres something left of this post after it gets censored...



So interesting -- thank you!


----------



## Jayne1

schadenfreude said:


> And lastly, while Googling the cost of F-->M surgery, I came across an interesting site about post ops with regret. The story of Samantha Kane, introduced with the statement "Then we have those who "change sex" on a whim and have the financial means to do so, then afterwards have regrets and sue everyone in sight who "did this to them" - while not taking any responsibility whatsoever for their own actions." - makes me wonder about Bruce/Caitlyn.



CNN had a few people on the show, who said they were sorry and switched back.

Why do you wonder about Cait? I think she's keeping the goods, for now, might be something she doesn't risk as her age.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> CNN had a few people on the show, who said they were sorry and switched back.
> 
> Why do you wonder about Cait? I think she's keeping the goods, for now, might be something she doesn't risk as her age.



I can't help but think when all the attention dies down and the publicity goes away, Caitlyn will decide to return to Bruce. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I can't help but think when all the attention dies down and the publicity goes away, Caitlyn will decide to return to Bruce. Just my opinion of course.



Right??


----------



## Crystalina

I'm watching "I Am Cait" and I am amazed at how self centered "Caitlyn" actually is. 

It's like watching a TV program called "Look How Fabulous I Am!!!"  

Seriously over-the-top.

I hope "Cait" decides to be Bruce again. [emoji20]


----------



## Crystalina

One more thing.

Cait is acting like a teenager. No wonder poor Kylie is so lost....

It's like the blind leading the blind. 

Two words:  ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I wish I were on the same time zone as the rest of you. I hate waiting and having to gripe by myself three hours later.


----------



## Crystalina

Cait seems as vain as the Kardashian girls!


----------



## Sassys

Crystalina said:


> One more thing.
> 
> Cait is acting like a teenager. No wonder poor Kylie is so lost....
> 
> It's like the blind leading the blind.
> 
> Two words:  ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT



It was also said on the show by the woman that is an author and professor that its normal for a trangender woman to act like a silly teenager in the beginning of their transition.


----------



## Jayne1

Crystalina said:


> I'm watching "I Am Cait" and I am amazed at how self centered "Caitlyn" actually is.
> 
> It's like watching a TV program called "Look How Fabulous I Am!!!"
> 
> Seriously over-the-top.
> 
> I hope "Cait" decides to be Bruce again. [emoji20]



She's always been self-centered. It was always about her, right from her Montreal days. 

There were so many self absorbed Ks, no one paid attention to her.  Now she's back to being the centre of attention and she loves it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

jayne1 said:


> she's always been self-centered. It was always about her, right from her montreal days.
> 
> There were so many self absorbed ks, no one paid attention to her.  Now she's back to being the centre of attention and she loves it.



+1


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...sed-by-caitlyn-jenner-moving-too-fast-2015287

*Raven-Symone Is Not Impressed by Caitlyn Jenner: She's Moving "Too Fast, Too Soon"*

Hard to please! Raven-Symone revealed on The View on Monday, July 27, that she has some issues with Caitlyn Jenner and her new docuseries I Am Cait.

"I think its wonderful, and yes, it needs a light being shined on it," Symone, 29, who came out herself last year, noted of the LGBTQ community. "When I came out, I didnt go and go hardcore and be like, Im going to save the world for LGBT...' Youve got to learn it. Youve got to learn it first, and shes not, really."

Outgoing host Rosie Perez then brought up the possibility that the former Olympian, 65, had waited for the opportune moment and platform to explore and shape the conversation.

"Well, I think you can be strategic before you come out as well," the former Disney star responded. "Before [I came out], I was definitely repping the community, even when I wasnt saying this is what I was. And Im not faulting [Caitlyn], because yes, we need [her]. Its too fast, too soon."

The Cosby Show alum also shared during the program that she personally does not claim to be an activist for the community. "I can't be," Symone said. "I learned from the real gay rights activists. I can only do what I can."

Jenner, meanwhile, penned a new blog post about a particularly sensitive LGBT issue  titled "A Tremendous Problem Facing the Trans Community"  on Monday.

"One tremendous problem, especially for trans youth, is the suicide rate," she wrote for her WhoSay series. "A recent study of nearly 100 transgender youth, ages 12 to 24, found that 51 percent reported thinking about suicide, while 30 percent had attempted it at least once in their lives... The latest you might have heard about last night on my show  Kyler Prescott, a 14-year-old trans boy who not only dealt with trans issues, but also suffered from severe depression. Sadly, he wasn't able to make it between the combination of the two."

Indeed, on the season premiere of I Am Cait, Jenner met with the late teen's parents and friends about the startling rates of suicide amongst transgender youth. She spoke with Kyler's mother, Katharine Prescott, who said that her vocal support wasn't enough to save her son through the beginning stages of his transition.

"She loved and supported her trans child in so many ways, including getting Kyler's name and gender marker legally changed," Jenner wrote, noting Kyler's transition from female to male. "Sadly, he died by suicide two months ago.... But this is the reality for far too many in the transgender community."

Kyler's mom then added to Jenner's blog post, saying her son grappled with complete acceptance from others  or the lack thereof. She also gave some words of encouragement to parents in similar situations. "Just keep fighting for them," she wrote in the blog. "Never give up. Be firm with people and help educate them... Love and embrace your child."


----------



## Crystalina

Wow, well said Raven-Symone! 

I think she hit the nail in the head!


----------



## chowlover2

Sasha2012 said:


> http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...sed-by-caitlyn-jenner-moving-too-fast-2015287
> 
> 
> 
> *Raven-Symone Is Not Impressed by Caitlyn Jenner: She's Moving "Too Fast, Too Soon"*
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to please! Raven-Symone revealed on The View on Monday, July 27, that she has some issues with Caitlyn Jenner and her new docuseries I Am Cait.
> 
> 
> 
> "I think its wonderful, and yes, it needs a light being shined on it," Symone, 29, who came out herself last year, noted of the LGBTQ community. "When I came out, I didnt go and go hardcore and be like, Im going to save the world for LGBT...' Youve got to learn it. Youve got to learn it first, and shes not, really."
> 
> 
> 
> Outgoing host Rosie Perez then brought up the possibility that the former Olympian, 65, had waited for the opportune moment and platform to explore and shape the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> "Well, I think you can be strategic before you come out as well," the former Disney star responded. "Before [I came out], I was definitely repping the community, even when I wasnt saying this is what I was. And Im not faulting [Caitlyn], because yes, we need [her]. Its too fast, too soon."
> 
> 
> 
> The Cosby Show alum also shared during the program that she personally does not claim to be an activist for the community. "I can't be," Symone said. "I learned from the real gay rights activists. I can only do what I can."
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner, meanwhile, penned a new blog post about a particularly sensitive LGBT issue  titled "A Tremendous Problem Facing the Trans Community"  on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> "One tremendous problem, especially for trans youth, is the suicide rate," she wrote for her WhoSay series. "A recent study of nearly 100 transgender youth, ages 12 to 24, found that 51 percent reported thinking about suicide, while 30 percent had attempted it at least once in their lives... The latest you might have heard about last night on my show  Kyler Prescott, a 14-year-old trans boy who not only dealt with trans issues, but also suffered from severe depression. Sadly, he wasn't able to make it between the combination of the two."
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, on the season premiere of I Am Cait, Jenner met with the late teen's parents and friends about the startling rates of suicide amongst transgender youth. She spoke with Kyler's mother, Katharine Prescott, who said that her vocal support wasn't enough to save her son through the beginning stages of his transition.
> 
> 
> 
> "She loved and supported her trans child in so many ways, including getting Kyler's name and gender marker legally changed," Jenner wrote, noting Kyler's transition from female to male. "Sadly, he died by suicide two months ago.... But this is the reality for far too many in the transgender community."
> 
> 
> 
> Kyler's mom then added to Jenner's blog post, saying her son grappled with complete acceptance from others  or the lack thereof. She also gave some words of encouragement to parents in similar situations. "Just keep fighting for them," she wrote in the blog. "Never give up. Be firm with people and help educate them... Love and embrace your child."




It's sad he doesn't treat his own children with love!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

OMg, the women that portray Caitlyn's besties on the show had to audition and are getting paid!?!? From the sounds of it, it's not friends that she met while going through her transition, but actors! Buying friends, seriously!?!?!
http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-auditioned-actresses-i-am-cait-bff/


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> I can't help but think when all the attention dies down and the publicity goes away, Caitlyn will decide to return to Bruce. Just my opinion of course.



That's a good point.


----------



## Crystalina

Last week, I found the docuseries intriguing.

But after tonight's show, I must say I'm really disappointed.....and somewhat disgusted.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Crystalina said:


> Last week, I found the focus erodes intriguing.
> 
> But after tonight's show, I must say I'm really disappointed.....and somewhat disgusted.



Good lerd, it doesn't come on here for 2 more hours. At least give me a hint and don't leave me hanging.


----------



## Crystalina

It just seems like a bunch of 50+ year old men dressed in wigs acting like sophomores in high school.


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> OMg, the women that portray Caitlyn's besties on the show had to audition and are getting paid!?!? From the sounds of it, it's not friends that she met while going through her transition, but actors! Buying friends, seriously!?!?!
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-auditioned-actresses-i-am-cait-bff/


Here's another link about the same article. 
http://bossip.com/1198341/friends-faker-than-silicone-did-caitlyn-jenner-audition-trans-bffs-for-i-am-cait/


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Crystalina said:


> It just seems like a bunch of 50+ year old men dressed in wigs acting like sophomores in high school.



Good grief. I dunno if it's even worth stayin' up for now.


----------



## schadenfreude

Jayne1 said:


> CNN had a few people on the show, who said they were sorry and switched back.
> 
> Why do you wonder about Cait? I think she's keeping the goods, for now, might be something she doesn't risk as her age.



My bulls!t radar is just pinging so hard through this whole thing. I don't doubt the authenticity of her feelings but I question their true root cause. The idea that Bruce/Caitlyn has spent the recommended time in counseling to explore them adequately this is questionable at best, and the way this has unfolded reinforces that. Honestly? The whole thing comes off as a poorly understood, misdirected cry for attention. And I realize that saying that makes me come off like a total *******, and I assure you I am not. It's just my gut feeling. I could be wrong.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

uhpharm01 said:


> Here's another link about the same article.
> http://bossip.com/1198341/friends-f...lyn-jenner-audition-trans-bffs-for-i-am-cait/



It's stuff like this that causes me to be so cynical of the whole thing.


----------



## schadenfreude

Crystalina said:


> It just seems like a bunch of 50+ year old men dressed in wigs acting like sophomores in high school.



OMG. They just broke the window in the back of the tour bus trying to moon someone? I can't.


----------



## labelwhore04

She looked really pretty on tonights episode. She looks way better on tv than in pics. Also the trans women that were on the show all looked so great, i never would have guessed that they were trans.


----------



## bisousx

The Kardashians have paid for actors on the show since the beginning! My friend auditioned for a role. Not sure why this is surprising now. I'll watch the show at some point.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bisousx said:


> The Kardashians have paid for actors on the show since the beginning! My friend auditioned for a role. Not sure why this is surprising now. I'll watch the show at some point.



This is the first I'd heard of that. I guess I haven't done a very good job of Keepin' up with the Kardashians!


----------



## mama13drama99

schadenfreude said:


> My bulls!t radar is just pinging so hard through this whole thing. I don't doubt the authenticity of her feelings but I question their true root cause. The idea that Bruce/Caitlyn has spent the recommended time in counseling to explore them adequately this is questionable at best, and the way this has unfolded reinforces that. Honestly? The whole thing comes off as a poorly understood, misdirected cry for attention. And I realize that saying that makes me come off like a total *******, and I assure you I am not. It's just my gut feeling. I could be wrong.




You don't come off as such.  Your gut feeling is shared with many!!!  I agree completely.  I know I can never know what's going on inside of someone else.  BUT the whole thing is a circus!


----------



## mama13drama99

Coach Lover Too said:


> This is the first I'd heard of that. I guess I haven't done a very good job of Keepin' up with the Kardashians!



And even now hearing, no matter how long it's happened, is absurd!  It's a farce and circus I tell ya!



*Been extremely busy with a new job and training as the prep for the school year goes into high gear.  My visits on tPF, as a whole has been limited, and have only allowed for short post.  Getting caught up here is interesting (in a good way) and actually informative!


----------



## Jayne1

labelwhore04 said:


> She looked really pretty on tonights episode. She looks way better on tv than in pics.



That's because the editors of the TV show use lots of softening, diffusing filters. They make everything unnaturally warm and overally saturated too.  Faces look pretty, but not very sharp and the colours are really unnatural.


----------



## Crystalina

schadenfreude said:


> My bulls!t radar is just pinging so hard through this whole thing. I don't doubt the authenticity of her feelings but I question their true root cause. The idea that Bruce/Caitlyn has spent the recommended time in counseling to explore them adequately this is questionable at best, and the way this has unfolded reinforces that. Honestly? The whole thing comes off as a poorly understood, misdirected cry for attention. And I realize that saying that makes me come off like a total *******, and I assure you I am not. It's just my gut feeling. I could be wrong.




I agree with this 100%.


----------



## michie

Coach Lover Too said:


> OMg, the women that portray Caitlyn's besties on the show had to audition and are getting paid!?!? From the sounds of it, it's not friends that she met while going through her transition, but actors! Buying friends, seriously!?!?!
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-auditioned-actresses-i-am-cait-bff/





uhpharm01 said:


> Here's another link about the same article.
> http://bossip.com/1198341/friends-f...lyn-jenner-audition-trans-bffs-for-i-am-cait/



So, the friends are new? I'm guessing if Bruce brought trans friends around prior to this, it would've pinged PMK's radar. 

She's saying she never felt feminine but always felt female. OK, then just be female! Define what your female is. Stop with the damned generalizations and stereotypical BS of what you think you have to be to blend in with society. It's just forced and fake...and isn't it basically another way that you're being someone you're not...as you had been these past 65 yrs?


----------



## chowlover2

schadenfreude said:


> My bulls!t radar is just pinging so hard through this whole thing. I don't doubt the authenticity of her feelings but I question their true root cause. The idea that Bruce/Caitlyn has spent the recommended time in counseling to explore them adequately this is questionable at best, and the way this has unfolded reinforces that. Honestly? The whole thing comes off as a poorly understood, misdirected cry for attention. And I realize that saying that makes me come off like a total *******, and I assure you I am not. It's just my gut feeling. I could be wrong.




I agree with you totally. When I saw an article somewhere that said on the show Caitlin was going to mentor transgender teens, I scratched my head. She literally came out out 2-3 months ago. Shouldn't she be spending time with a transgender mentor herself for awhile? This is someone who hid their identity for close to 65 yrs. you don't come out and do big things overnight. Of course that is not good TV either, or at least E! TV.

At this stage of things, I am thinking Bruce is more transvestite than transgender. And there is nothing wrong with that. Didn't he say he would have stayed married to Kris if she let him wear women's clothing at home? So if you are happy then, why the push to be transgender?

I'm not watching her show. I'll continue to watch I am Jazz, a real family with the real emotions and problems that is quite well done. Not a show with paid for friends, rented high end cars and Cait's glam squad.


----------



## pixiejenna

Of course her "friends" are paid actors no on in her family wanted to be on her show and she needs people to interact with. Plus the K's have frequently paid actors to be thier "friend". Why would she be different she's just doing what she already knows.


----------



## ByeKitty

bisousx said:


> The Kardashians have paid for actors on the show since the beginning! My friend auditioned for a role. Not sure why this is surprising now. I'll watch the show at some point.


I thought this was common knowledge... And it's exactly what I expected when I read about his show being on K! Entertainment. It's just a shame, this could have been a really interesting show if it was set up by competent people.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

ByeKitty said:


> I thought this was common knowledge... And it's exactly what I expected when I read about his show being on K! Entertainment. It's just a shame, this could have been a really interesting show if it was set up by competent people.



Yeah. I believe Bruce's journey, but I'm not thrilled by this show. At. All.

Part of me wants to believe this is just excitement at being "free" and that it will die down. But as time goes on, that's fading.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I watched the show last night and it appears to me that the transgender peeps aren't too thrilled about Caitlyn's role in things. I got the impression that they don't think she can relate to what other transgender people really go through. Bruce and Caitlyn have lived such a privileged life and doesn't seem to have a clue.
It was really interesting hearing the other women talk and give their take on things though.

Did y'all notice when Caitlyn's friend Robin (I think that was the name) said that Bruce came out and confided to her three years ago?? (She's his private shopper/friend/assistant.) The only thing I kept thinking is I bet that hurts the kids when they hear that, because that was Khloe's biggest complaint, that he didn't share sooner with the family.

(Assistant's name is *Ronda Kamihira)*


----------



## sdkitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I watched the show last night and it appears to me that the transgender peeps aren't too thrilled about Caitlyn's role in things. I got the impression that they don't think she can relate to what other transgender people really go through. Bruce and Caitlyn have lived such a privileged life and doesn't seem to have a clue.
> It was really interesting hearing the other women talk and give their take on things though.
> 
> Did y'all notice when Caitlyn's friend Robin (I think that was the name) said that Bruce came out and confided to her three years ago?? (She's his private shopper/friend/assistant.) The only thing I kept thinking is I bet that hurts the kids when they hear that, because that was Khloe's biggest complaint, that he didn't share sooner with the family.
> 
> (Assistant's name is *Ronda Kamihira)*


I watched part of the show last night and didn't really find it very interesting.  I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to watch again.  I agree, the other trans people were pointing out that she's much more privileged and can't really identify with a lot of their struggles.
Her face looks pretty good with all the makeup but when you see her walking from the back she looks huge and manly - the height, gait, etc (IMO)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

sdkitty said:


> I watched part of the show last night and didn't really find it very interesting.  I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to watch again.  I agree, the other trans people were pointing out that she's much more privileged and can't really identify with a lot of their struggles.
> Her face looks pretty good with all the makeup but when you see her walking from the back she looks huge and manly - the height, gait, etc (IMO)



Agree 100%!


----------



## cali1218

When you have the Kardashian crew producing your show, what do you expect? But I have to say, he looks amazing IMO!


----------



## Jayne1

cali1218 said:


> When you have the Kardashian crew producing your show, what do you expect? But I have to say, he looks amazing IMO!



Don't let the filters fool you.  She looks nice, but nothing like the softened, blurred and coloured image we see on her reality show.


----------



## cali1218

Jayne1 said:


> Don't let the filters fool you.  She looks nice, but nothing like the softened, blurred and coloured image we see on her reality show.


Still looks better than Kris


----------



## DesigningStyle

cali1218 said:


> Still looks better than Kris



I don't agree with that at all.


----------



## mama13drama99

Kris some times looks like jack Nicholas around the mouth, and overdone but I, too, don't think Caitlyn looks better.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Without the correct lighting PMK can be scary

Warning.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I bet Kris looks better without her makeup than Caitlyn does.


----------



## mama13drama99

Encore Hermes said:


> Without the correct lighting PMK can be scary
> 
> 
> 
> Warning.
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .




Thanks for the warning, lol!  I don't know why I immediately think of Jack N. as the Joker in Batman [emoji15]!


----------



## usmcwifey

She seriously looks evil....


----------



## VickyB

Satan's hand maiden! 




Encore Hermes said:


> Without the correct lighting PMK can be scary
> 
> Warning.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .


----------



## dangerouscurves

Encore Hermes said:


> Without the correct lighting PMK can be scary
> 
> 
> 
> Warning.
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .




Thanks for the warning but I still startled!


----------



## lizmil

I said before, she looks like Dr. Seuss' Grinch.


----------



## cali1218

DesigningStyle said:


> I don't agree with that at all.


Great, good for you.


----------



## ByeKitty

I don't think Caitlyn or PMK have very attractive faces. They are both snatched, pulled and injected beyond belief!


----------



## DesigningStyle

cali1218 said:


> Great, good for you.



Good for you too!  



ByeKitty said:


> I don't think Caitlyn or PMK have very attractive faces. They are both snatched, pulled and injected beyond belief!



Neither look natural.  That is for sure.


----------



## Bentley1

They're both unattractive and creepy.


----------



## Docjeun

That's putting it mildly.


----------



## krissa




----------



## AshTx.1

krissa said:


>


Gawd what a circus.


----------



## usmcwifey

I'm sorry but if my husband suddenly turned into a woman ....I'd have a HARD a** time looking at him or talking to him ... Sounds horrible but it just seems like such a hard thing for anyone


----------



## DC-Cutie

all the botox, fillers, injections, and pulling in that pic is amaze balls - LOL


----------



## chowlover2

usmcwifey said:


> I'm sorry but if my husband suddenly turned into a woman ....I'd have a HARD a** time looking at him or talking to him ... Sounds horrible but it just seems like such a hard thing for anyone




Agreed! Not to mention the male voice coming out of a more feminine looking man. Much as I despise PMK, this can't be easy for her.


----------



## Sasha2012

When it comes to family, nearly all differences can be put aside.

And if there was any tension between former husband and wife Kris and Caitlyn Jenner, they left it behind to put on a united front for their daughter.

Celebrating at the first of a number of get togethers for Kylie's 18th, the family went for dinner at Nobu Restaurant in Malibu on Friday night.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...hter-Kylie-s-18th-birthday.html#ixzz3iDIbcvtD


----------



## bag-mania

^ The body language in that second photo says it all. It's like Caitlyn is trying to escape from that strangling hug.

Make no mistake Kris was not happy. Wearing the dark sunglasses at night was a strategic move. The cameras couldn't pick up the nuances of her expressions that way. She just pasted a fake smile on her face and she was good to go.


----------



## shiny_things

chowlover2 said:


> Agreed! Not to mention the male voice coming out of a more feminine looking man. Much as I despise PMK, this can't be easy for her.



But she knew when she met him that he wanted to be a woman. He was already in the process of starting the transition. Yes, he should have had the courage to keep on with it back then and not marry her, but it's not like she had no clue.


----------



## ByeKitty

LMAO that hug!!! It looks like Kris planned it to be a very intimate hug in front of the paps, Caitlyn tries to get out but can't!

I have to say Caitlyn looks better than the rest there. Less is more Kris!


----------



## bisousx

DC-Cutie said:


> all the botox, fillers, injections, and pulling in that pic is amaze balls - LOL



Right? And we're not even talking about Kris and Caitlyn yet


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Repeat....I will be nice....I will be nice.....


----------



## usmcwifey

shiny_things said:


> But she knew when she met him that he wanted to be a woman. He was already in the process of starting the transition. Yes, he should have had the courage to keep on with it back then and not marry her, but it's not like she had no clue.




I don't know....it's one thing to to know or suspect things and then another to see your husband do a complete 180 and start living life as a woman ....after all regardless they were still married for YEARS and went on to have more children together ... It would be hard imo [emoji15]


----------



## shiny_things

Oh yeah, I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard, but she can hardly say she was blind sided as she claims.


----------



## Michele26

I feel for Burt, Casey, Brandon, & Brody. Not so much for Kris.


----------



## usmcwifey

Coach Lover Too said:


> Repeat....I will be nice....I will be nice.....




I say this often in my head [emoji23]


----------



## usmcwifey

Michele26 said:


> I feel for Burt, Casey, Brandon, & Brody. Not so much for Kris.




True....I think his previous kids had the more difficult end of it all [emoji17] this whole family would drive me completely insane (if I were a part of it)


----------



## ByeKitty

So are Casey and Cassandra the same person?


----------



## ChanelMommy

Speechless..


----------



## labelwhore04

Personally i think Caitlyns face looks better than Kims. I feel less scared looking at Caitlyn than Kim. Even Khloe is prettier than Kim nowadays.


----------



## Crystalina

Actually, I think Khloe is the prettiest Kardashian.


----------



## labelwhore04

Crystalina said:


> Actually, I think Khloe is the prettiest Kardashian.



She is getting up there as the rest of them butcher their faces. For me i think Kendall is the prettiest, then Kourtney, Khloe, Kylie, Kim. Funny how things change, Kim used to be the most gorgeous. Now she has a face that nightmares are made of and is the least attractive of the bunch.


----------



## Crystalina

Kim is definitely the least attractive now. She's messed her face up sooooo bad!


----------



## LVoeletters

usmcwifey said:


> I'm sorry but if my husband suddenly turned into a woman ....I'd have a HARD a** time looking at him or talking to him ... Sounds horrible but it just seems like such a hard thing for anyone




I agree


----------



## LVoeletters

I honestly think Kendall and kourtney are the best looking. I hope Kendall doesn't fall prey to these surgeries that she's surrounded by. Seeing these pictures really shows me that I will take all measures to take care of my skin. I want to age like Cindy Crawford.


----------



## usmcwifey

LVoeletters said:


> I honestly think Kendall and kourtney are the best looking. I hope Kendall doesn't fall prey to these surgeries that she's surrounded by. Seeing these pictures really shows me that I will take all measures to take care of my skin. I want to age like Cindy Crawford.




It's probably because they're the only ones left with most of their original face and body parts lol they still look like themselves and not scary plastic dolls


----------



## Michele26

LVoeletters said:


> I honestly think Kendall and kourtney are the best looking. I hope Kendall doesn't fall prey to these surgeries that she's surrounded by. Seeing these pictures really shows me that I will take all measures to take care of my skin.* I want to age like Cindy Crawford*.



Decades ago Cindy Crawford starting having numerous fillers, botox, & an eye job. What 49-year-old looks as good as Cindy who hasn't had any cosmetic procedures...?


----------



## Encore Hermes

So if they are filming KUWTKs new season, Caitlyn is going to be back on the series?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn's gonna follow the money trail.

Sorry, I could only be nice for so long.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Caitlyn's gonna follow the money trail.
> 
> Sorry, I could only be nice for so long.


I for one admire your strength of resolve


----------



## Bentley1

labelwhore04 said:


> Personally i think Caitlyns face looks better than Kims. I feel less scared looking at Caitlyn than Kim. Even Khloe is prettier than Kim nowadays.




When Caitlyn is made up & filtered, she looks better than Kim & Kris. 
Kim startles me at times, like I can't comprehend what I'm seeing when I'm looking at her face.


----------



## Jayne1

Michele26 said:


> Decades ago Cindy Crawford starting having numerous fillers, botox, & an eye job. *What 49-year-old looks as good as Cindy who hasn't had any cosmetic procedures...?*


None that I can think of.  Diane Lane was natural for a while but I don't know about now.

Cindy doesn't have the beauty she once had -- too much work done.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Jayne1 said:


> None that I can think of.  Diane Lane was natural for a while but I don't know about now.
> 
> Cindy doesn't have the beauty she once had -- too much work done.


Agreed


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Thingofbeauty said:


> I for one admire your strength of resolve



My tongue was bleeding from biting it so hard


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> None that I can think of.  Diane Lane was natural for a while but I don't know about now.
> 
> Cindy doesn't have the beauty she once had -- too much work done.




She sadly doesn't. She shouldn't have fiddled with her eyes, those were her most beautiful & unique feature, imo. They look so altered and different now.


----------



## Jayne1

Is Cait doing this on purpose?  Not anxious to put her arms around Kris?  Not caring to fake it?  Or, the reverse, faking the nonchalance. She knows the cameras are there, she's still filming her show, I think, so she's trying to say something&#8230;


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Or that Kris has been entirely different in private about this than the public face she's showing here. Caitlyn's face and body language are full of WTF and "what is this now?"


----------



## candy2100

Is the dress that Caitlyn is wearing the one that Kim told her that PMK also owns?


----------



## chowlover2

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Or that Kris has been entirely different in private about this than the public face she's showing here. Caitlyn's face and body language are full of WTF and "what is this now?"



Yes!



candy2100 said:


> Is the dress that Caitlyn is wearing the one that Kim told her that PMK also owns?




Yes, the Tom Ford.


----------



## VickyB

Wow. Total freak show!  Kakes looks ginormous - her a$$ has gotten bigger than the baby bump  -- so much so that I can't tell if she is coming or going!!!  Kris' top would make a perfect circus costume. Ugh, plus we can see her mid drift skin - ICK. Kourt is a fashion disaster; Khloe looks like she fell asleep in her clothes from the night before, slept through her wake up call and just tossed on her robe to cover the out fit from the night before. The Birthday Girl look like a 35 year old tramp. Jenner and Kendull look the best by a mile.


----------



## Tivo

michie said:


> So, the friends are new? I'm guessing if Bruce brought trans friends around prior to this, it would've pinged PMK's radar.
> 
> She's saying she never felt feminine but always felt female. OK, then just be female! Define what your female is. Stop with the damned generalizations and stereotypical BS of what you think you have to be to blend in with society. It's just forced and fake...and isn't it basically another way that you're being someone you're not...as you had been these past 65 yrs?


His definition is wearing dresses, heels, getting glammed up, blowouts, painting nails and doing pap walks. He objectifies women just like other men do. Just in a different way.


----------



## ByeKitty

Tivo said:


> His definition is wearing dresses, heels, getting glammed up, blowouts, painting nails and doing pap walks. He objectifies women just like other men do. Just in a different way.



If that's objectifying women, many women also objectify women... Actually I do believe that the Kardashians are doing a disservice to emancipation in a way - their goal seems to be to look pretty and marry rich. They sometimes also do the "I'm dumb and cute" thing.


----------



## fashion16

ByeKitty said:


> If that's objectifying women, many women also objectify women... Actually I do believe that the Kardashians are doing a disservice to emancipation in a way - their goal seems to be to look pretty and marry rich. They sometimes also do the "I'm dumb and cute" thing.




I agree completely but I think it is also fair to point out that there are a lot of men out there that like that act.


----------



## papertiger

Decophile said:


> I'm about to frolic onto a theoretical tangent.  In a time and place where gender roles and definitions are clearly established and oppressively enforced, the struggle would be much more pronounced and this discourse much more critical.  But in today's more relaxed and accepting environment (yes, I know large swaths of horror still exist, but let's face it, Caitlyn doesn't swim in those ponds), what is the point of agonizing over calling yourself a woman, expecting it to signal certain defined characteristics to the world, but intending it to mean only what you want it to mean?  I'm all for ambiguity and evolving beyond the constraints of tradition.   Of course she's free to do whatever she wants and to define her own true self.  I'm lost when she dramatically invokes a label (woman) to publicize who she is, but unfettered freedom in personalizing what that means negates the significance and purpose of that label.  To me it looks like she means that she wants to wear dresses and makeup and to be known as a woman, because that's all she's expressed.  That's perfectly fine, but is there more to her womanhood than that?  Is that the extent of her definition of woman?   That's a valid question, and one I would never pose to a transitioning person, but I will in our own discussion community.   If that is all she means, why does any of it matter?  If "woman" is a customizable, malleable label that can mean whatever as each person defines it, why place so much importance on the label at all?  If "sugar free" can mean anything from zero sugar to made of solid cane sugar to none of your business how much sugar, why use the label at all?  If gender is what each individual says it is, without any need for a baseline consensus on what it means, then it all becomes meaningless.
> Incidentally, I'm all for meaningless also.  I don't object to diluting, bending, changing the meanings of labels, eradicating them altogether, so long as you acknowledge that's what you're doing and you can articulate a reason why the label ought to be retired.  There is nothing wrong with gender neutrality or duality, and it might be where evolution will take us anyway.



Brilliantly put


----------



## Docjeun

He's just a cross dresser.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Trulyadiva said:


> He's just a cross dresser.



If you read about cross-dressing and being transgender in the LGBTQ community, the two are closely linked.  Many who begin by cross-dressing, start to realise that they identify more naturally as a female and make the decision to come out as such.

Transgender is not a gender variant, it is an umbrella terminology that includes Transsexuals, Gender Queers/Androgynous and Cross-dressers/Transvestites


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Who is Candace that's on the show? Is she transgender too? She's gorgeous and reeks of sensuality. You can tell she's totally comfortable with herself.

I still find it odd that Caitlyn's friend Robin (?) knew three years ago about Bruce wanting to transition and his own kids didn't know, (and according to Kris, neither did she.) Robin is really pretty too. Seems she's the only friend on the show that's not transgender (from what I can gather.) I swear I wouldn't be surprised if Kris and Caitlyn get back together. Stranger things have happened yanoo!


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> Who is Candace that's on the show? Is she transgender too? She's gorgeous and reeks of sensuality. You can tell she's totally comfortable with herself.
> 
> I still find it odd that Caitlyn's friend Robin (?) knew three years ago about Bruce wanting to transition and his own kids didn't know, (and according to Kris, neither did she.) Robin is really pretty too. Seems she's the only friend on the show that's not transgender (from what I can gather.) I swear I wouldn't be surprised if Kris and Caitlyn get back together. Stranger things have happened yanoo!




Isn't Robin a friend of Kris? And Bruce was accused of dating her when they split?


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Who is Candace that's on the show? Is she transgender too? She's gorgeous and reeks of sensuality. You can tell she's totally comfortable with herself.
> 
> I still find it odd that Caitlyn's friend Robin (?) knew three years ago about Bruce wanting to transition and his own kids didn't know, (and according to Kris, neither did she.) Robin is really pretty too. Seems she's the only friend on the show that's not transgender (from what I can gather.) I swear I wouldn't be surprised if Kris and Caitlyn get back together. Stranger things have happened yanoo!



Robin is a Rhonda, I think and Cait said she is her assistant. Sounds like Cait just uses people because poor Rhonda is very upset about being ignored after Cait needed her for so long.


----------



## Jikena

I think Caitlyn shouldn't have used so much photoshop for the (huh, can't remember the name of the magazine...) her first photoshoot as a woman (I guess it's the magazine who decides and not her ?). We were all like "she looks so beautiful !" but it was all photoshop. I'm not saying she looks ugly because she's 65 and it's normal to have wrinckles and all at that age + she had a lot of ps in her life. But she definitely looks nothing like that first photoshoot.


----------



## Sasha2012

Kylie Jenner's parents both made fashion statements as they arrived to celebrate their daughter's 18th birthday at LA hotspot The Nice Guy on Sunday night.

Kris, 59, opted to flaunt her cleavage in a black bustier which she paired with skintight leggings and pointed toe pumps as she arrived at the venue with boyfriend Corey Gamble.

Caitlyn, 65, chose a high-necked dark blue mini dress with a black leather jacket and accentuated her legs even further with a pair of gladiator-style sandals.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...hter-Kylie-s-18th-birthday.html#ixzz3iOZzTER3


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Great outfit


----------



## aleksandras

She was the only one in that party that didn't go with the clown dress code. Really nice outfit!


----------



## Sasha2012

She's part of one of the most glamorous families in showbusiness but Caitlyn Jenner showed she's more than capable of Keeping Up With The Kardashians on Sunday night.

The 65-year-old father of Kylie Jenner pulled out all the stops to celebrate her 18th birthday at The Nice Guy in West Hollywood along with the rest of the family.

Wearing an elegant shift dress for the occasion, the former Olympic champion, gave the look an edgy twist by adding a chic leather jacket and studded heels into the equation.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ifts-320-000-white-Ferrari.html#ixzz3iPBVngFn


----------



## DC-Cutie

crazy eyes


----------



## creighbaby

Tivo said:


> His definition is wearing dresses, heels, getting glammed up, blowouts, painting nails and doing pap walks. He objectifies women just like other men do. Just in a different way.




When she accepted the espy and joked that she was a woman because it took so long to get ready I rolled my eyes and shook my head. She is on a journey and will undoubtedly make foolish statements, but she needs to stop playing the the audience.

Also, why is kris called PMK?


----------



## cali1218

creighbaby said:


> When she accepted the espy and joked that she was a woman because it took so long to get ready I rolled my eyes and shook my head. She is on a journey and will undoubtedly make foolish statements, but she needs to stop playing the the audience.
> 
> *Also, why is kris called PMK*?


An abbreviation for Pimp Mama Kris.


----------



## keodi

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Great outfit



agreed


----------



## glamourous1098

and as usual, she's the only one with her rack not hanging out.  I'll take it.


----------



## mrsinsyder

She looks a damn fool, being the ringleader of the circus surrounding this family.

How they can all get together and celebrate their daughter becoming a fully legal prostitute is beyond me. They should have been focusing on Kylie going to college, and putting Tyga in handcuffs, but these fools only worship the almighty dollar.

Disgusting.


----------



## .pursefiend.

the words escape me.. cute shoes though


----------



## Thingofbeauty

I am TIRED of these reports that only focus on what Kaitlyn (she's a full Kardashian now) is wearing!

She announced she's female and immediately all the media could say about her was that she looked stylish/glamorous/chic etc etc.

Bruce Jenner was more than his clothes. Kaitlyn should be no different. This is absolute bullsh!t and completely unacceptable


----------



## DC-Cutie

but even Bruce's own accolades have been overshadowed by all things Kardashian.  So it's only fitting that he move into the 7th sister role...


----------



## creighbaby

cali1218 said:


> An abbreviation for Pimp Mama Kris.




That is hysterical. Love it.


----------



## ByeKitty

Thingofbeauty said:


> I am TIRED of these reports that only focus on what Kaitlyn (she's a full Kardashian now) is wearing!
> 
> She announced she's female and immediately all the media could say about her was that she looked stylish/glamorous/chic etc etc.
> 
> Bruce Jenner was more than his clothes. Kaitlyn should be no different. This is absolute bullsh!t and completely unacceptable



I see it here too though... Focusing on looks/outfits when we see pap photos. What else is there to say about pap pics? Now if Caitlyn decides to speak up or do something we'll comment on that.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

ByeKitty said:


> I see it here too though... Focusing on looks/outfits when we see pap photos. What else is there to say about pap pics? Now if Caitlyn decides to speak up or do something we'll comment on that.


That's true. Like DC-Cutie said, she's now the 7th sister


----------



## uhpharm01

dc-cutie said:


> crazy eyes



+1


----------



## uhpharm01

cali1218 said:


> An abbreviation for Pimp Mama Kris.



Lol


----------



## Bentley1

Thingofbeauty said:


> That's true. Like DC-Cutie said, she's now the 7th sister




[emoji23]


----------



## lanasyogamama

Those surprised eyes!!


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Thingofbeauty said:


> I am TIRED of these reports that only focus on what Kaitlyn (she's a full Kardashian now) is wearing!
> 
> She announced she's female and immediately all the media could say about her was that she looked stylish/glamorous/chic etc etc.
> 
> Bruce Jenner was more than his clothes. Kaitlyn should be no different. This is absolute bullsh!t and completely unacceptable




I totally agree with this sentiment, but...



ByeKitty said:


> I see it here too though... Focusing on looks/outfits when we see pap photos. What else is there to say about pap pics? Now if Caitlyn decides to speak up or do something we'll comment on that.




This. All she seems to be talking about it her clothes and her hair and her makeup. She doesn't say anything else and she doesn't do anything but get dressed up and go for pap strolls and film her reality tv show where she shows us her closet and next episode it's all about her bikini body. 



Thingofbeauty said:


> That's true. Like DC-Cutie said, she's now the 7th sister



It bothers me because she's truly in a unique position to speak out about so many women's and transgender issues and instead she just perpetuates the view of women as shiny, substanceless objects. She's like the antithesis of the #askhermore movement during Oscar season.


----------



## DC-Cutie

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> It bothers me because she's truly in a unique position to speak out about so many women's and transgender issues and instead she just perpetuates the view of women as shiny, substanceless objects. She's like the antithesis of the #askhermore movement during Oscar season.


 
just yesterday I had brunch with a friend, he's transgender.  His exact words "I don't want her speaking about our (trans community) issues.  period.  no thank you"  His reasoning was Bruce had all the time in the world to support the community and now Caite is doing so with all the fancy fan fare bright lights and cameras in tow, while we are getting killed, loosing jobs, and shunned by our family and friends - on a daily basis!


He got loud and beside us there was a lesbian couple - basically nodding in agreement.


----------



## labelwhore04

I totally agree. Being a woman is much more than just getting dressed up, but i'm gonna cut her some slack because she just transitioned and she's probably having so much fun getting glammed up after hiding that side of herself for 65 years. Hopefully with time she reverts back to the "Bruce" side that actually had hobbies, interests,etc.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> I totally agree with this sentiment, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This. All she seems to be talking about it her clothes and her hair and her makeup. She doesn't say anything else and she doesn't do anything but get dressed up and go for pap strolls and film her reality tv show where she shows us her closet and next episode it's all about her bikini body.
> 
> 
> 
> It bothers me because she's truly in a unique position to speak out about so many women's and transgender issues and instead she just perpetuates the view of women as shiny, substanceless objects. She's like the antithesis of the #askhermore movement during Oscar season.


I think she's aping the femininity that she was exposed to with her last family. The Kardashian Koven is FULL of exaggerated, stereotyped ideas of what it means to be a woman. I wouldn't be surprised if she starts sporting huge cleavage and a massive butt eventually.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Thingofbeauty said:


> I think she's aping the femininity that she was exposed to with her last family. The Kardashian Koven is FULL of exaggerated, stereotyped ideas of what it means to be a woman. I wouldn't be surprised if she starts sporting huge cleavage and a massive butt eventually.


 
I'm still getting over seeing her in that bathing suit, I'm not ready for butt pads/implants


----------



## Thingofbeauty

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm still getting over seeing her in that bathing suit, I'm not ready for butt pads/implants


Now what the H£LL is THIS story?!!!??


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm still getting over seeing her in that bathing suit, I'm not ready for butt pads/implants


 
I was curious to know why she didn't get her gut lipoed. While she was having all those surgeries, why not get that fixed too.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Thingofbeauty said:


> Now what the H£LL is THIS story?!!!??


 
you just need to see it.  Honestly from the neck down, looks like she'd fit right in at a retirement community in Boca


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> you just need to see it.  Honestly from the neck down, looks like she'd fit right in at a retirement community in Boca


 
Did you see the way the chef looked at her, when she walked through the kitchen and outside? I thought I would DIE!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Sassys said:


> Did you see the way the chef looked at her, when she walked through the kitchen and outside? I thought I would DIE!



did it look worse than the look Kanye gave her - like she had the damn plague


----------



## bag-mania

Thingofbeauty said:


> *I think she's aping the femininity that she was exposed to with her last family.* The Kardashian Koven is FULL of exaggerated, stereotyped ideas of what it means to be a woman. I wouldn't be surprised if she starts sporting huge cleavage and a massive butt eventually.



I think so too. I doubt Caitlyn sees it as exaggerated or a stereotype.  Everyone has their own idea of what it means to be a woman.


----------



## skarsbabe

Why did I google, whyyyyyyyyyyyy?!


WARNING
http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/08/09/i-am-cait-caitlyn-jenner-bathing-suit-august-9-recap/


----------



## skarsbabe

Also I see that pic and can't help but wonder how he's keeping it tucked! LOL ickkkkk


----------



## DC-Cutie

skarsbabe said:


> Also I see that pic and can't help but wonder how he's keeping it tucked! LOL ickkkkk



tucking is like some sort of sorcery!


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> did it look worse than the look Kanye gave her - like she had the damn plague


 
Yes. You need to re-watch that scene.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

skarsbabe said:


> Why did I google, whyyyyyyyyyyyy?!
> 
> 
> WARNING
> http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/08/09/i-am-cait-caitlyn-jenner-bathing-suit-august-9-recap/


----------



## labelwhore04

DC-Cutie said:


> tucking is like some sort of sorcery!



Seriously! How does it even work? Do they just tape it? I need to google this.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

labelwhore04 said:


> Seriously! How does it even work? Do they just tape it? I need to google this.


No you don't


----------



## bisousx

Thingofbeauty said:


> No you don't



Lmaooo


----------



## qudz104

Thingofbeauty said:


> No you don't




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

She actually doesn't look bad in the swimsuit for a woman in her sixties.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

chowlover2 said:


> Isn't Robin a friend of Kris? And Bruce was accused of dating her when they split?



OHHHhhhhhhh, is THAT the female that was being gossiped about?!?! Just from what I've seen on the show, I like her. I think she's more attached to Bruce (that's who she says she misses) than just a friend though. She was having a hard time about it last night on the show. Off topic but she sure has pretty legs!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> I see it here too though... Focusing on looks/outfits when we see pap photos. What else is there to say about pap pics? Now if Caitlyn decides to speak up or do something we'll comment on that.



That's because when I say something other than what her outfit/hair/makeup look like, I get in trouble.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I still think she's seriously trying to *Keep up with the Kardashians.*
She's definitely competing with her own daughters for gawd's sake. Act like a d*mn parent! Same goes for Kris too.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

...and my nice side says *I like the leather jacket.*


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's because when I say something other than what her outfit/hair/makeup look like, I get in trouble.



Not necessarily though, you've said plenty of things for which you didn't get in trouble - the point is for arguments to be constructive I think, and by that I mean no blatant bashing of her transgender journey and whether or not that is legitimate.

Caitlyn seems to enjoy being "one of the girls" and I can't say I blame her for that after being Bruce for 65 years. I totally agree though, that she seems to be happily jumping on the superficial Kardashian "7 sisters!!" gravy train - but I knew that from the moment her E! show was announced. It's odd how she's in the picture at Kylie's party as if she's one of Kylie's friends, but you know - the alternative was probably to sit with PMK, who is behind Kylie in that pic, on the other couch. I probably would have chosen the same seat


----------



## creighbaby

I love Rupaul's drag race and googled tucking to learn how they hid their penises and testicles. The process is quick, but if I were a guy it would be difficult to keep everything out of sight all day.


----------



## BadAzzBish

Trulyadiva said:


> He's just a cross dresser.



^This. I'm starting to think that to.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I enjoy the one transgender woman on the show, but I can't think of her name. She's really informational and she was the one talking to Rhonda last night when she was upset about missing her friend (Bruce.)
She pretty much calls it like she sees it and even says that Caitlyn is clueless about things. You would think if Bruce (past tense) knew ALL those years that he was in the wrong body that he would have reached out to people in his same position to have someone to relate to. Caitlyn gets her own show and NOW she interacts with transgender people? This is the first time ever, in all these years? I find that really odd.

I'll give her crediit because she cleans up nice, but I did NOT like that bathing suit pic. awk Some things are better left hidden!


----------



## DC-Cutie

and if I hear the term cis-women one more time!  We are natural born women, no nicknames or other terms needed.  thank you


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DC-Cutie said:


> and if I hear the term cis-women one more time!  We are natural born women, no nicknames or other terms needed.  thank you



I don't even know what that is! Help me out. lol

On another note, here's Kris and Caitlyn's friend Ronda. Don't y'all think she looks like Kris before she had all the plastic surgery? She's really pretty.

http://hollywoodlife.com/celeb/ronda-kamihira/


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Coach Lover Too said:


> I don't even know what that is! Help me out. lol
> 
> On another note, here's Kris and Caitlyn's friend Ronda. Don't y'all think she looks like Kris before she had all the plastic surgery? She's really pretty.
> 
> http://hollywoodlife.com/celeb/ronda-kamihira/


Neither do I and yes, she is pretty!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Coach Lover Too said:


> I don't even know what that is! Help me out. lol
> 
> On another note, here's Kris and Caitlyn's friend Ronda. Don't y'all think she looks like Kris before she had all the plastic surgery? She's really pretty.
> 
> http://hollywoodlife.com/celeb/ronda-kamihira/



Neither do I!

So I look it up!   Cisgender is a word that applies to the vast majority of people, describing a person who is not transgender. If a doctor announces, &#8220;It's a girl!&#8221; in the delivery room based on the child's body and that baby grows up to identify as a woman, that person is cisgender.


----------



## Encore Hermes

DC-Cutie said:


> and if I hear the term cis-women one more time!  We are natural born women, no nicknames or other terms needed.  thank you



Amen +1000

I looked up awhile back 

Cisgender is a word that applies to the vast majority of people, describing a person who is not transgender. If a doctor announces, &#8220;It&#8217;s a girl!&#8221; in the delivery room based on the child&#8217;s body and that baby grows up to identify as a woman, that person is cisgender. Similarly, a baby designated male in the delivery room who grows up to identify as a man is cisgender. This is the case for about 99% of the population, at least according to the best available statistics.

http://time.com/3636430/cisgender-definition/


----------



## michie

So, they're just hellbent on labeling everyone? #icant


----------



## schadenfreude

DC-Cutie said:


> and if I hear the term cis-women one more time!  We are natural born women, no nicknames or other terms needed.  thank you





michie said:


> So, they're just hellbent on labeling everyone? #icant



This and this. Why does everything need a label? And then they wonder why people can't get along. Sheesh.


----------



## ByeKitty

LMAO!! Ok, so Caitlyn is a transgender woman and I would be a cisgender woman? Agree, "woman" should be enough.


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I enjoy the one transgender woman on the show, but I can't think of her name. She's really informational and she was the one talking to Rhonda last night when she was upset about missing her friend (Bruce.)
> She pretty much calls it like she sees it and even says that Caitlyn is clueless about things. You would think if Bruce (past tense) knew ALL those years that he was in the wrong body that he would have reached out to people in his same position to have someone to relate to. Caitlyn gets her own show and NOW she interacts with transgender people? This is the first time ever, in all these years? I find that really odd.
> 
> I'll give her crediit because she cleans up nice, but I did NOT like that bathing suit pic. awk Some things are better left hidden!




That's what I find so amazing in this day and age, he never bothered to speak to other transgender individuals til a few months ago. He could have gone online and been anonymous in any number of transgender forums. Wouldn't you want to meet other speak to other individuals before you did any surgery? Odd, and crazy in my eyes. That's why I think he is a transvestite as opposed to a transgendered individual. Of course he may not get as much press as a transvestite...


DC-Cutie said:


> and if I hear the term cis-women one more time!  We are natural born women, no nicknames or other terms needed.  thank you




Thank you! As a natural born women we need no labels!


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Cisgender is a technical term like heterosexual that for some reason has become the word of the month. Just women would refer to both cisgender and transgender women so I understand why in some formal instances you would use the term to differentiate, but it's become so unnecessarily overused. There are tons of people on tumblr that put "cis" in their bios and it's like...chill. Although tumblr is not exactly the normal world...


----------



## blackkitty4378

ByeKitty said:


> LMAO!! Ok, so Caitlyn is a transgender woman and I would be a cisgender woman? Agree, "woman" should be enough.



But then you have people saying "She's not a real woman! _I'm_ a real woman!" So you can't win! I agree, people need to get over themselves and stop acting like gender is this exclusive club. Drop the gender roles, I say.


----------



## michie

blackkitty4378 said:


> But then you have people saying "She's not a real woman! _I'm_ a real woman!" So you can't win! I agree, people need to get over themselves and stop acting like gender is this exclusive club. Drop the gender roles, I say.



Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought ByeKitty was saying:

"It's a girl"  to woman = Woman 
"It's a girl/boy, but now a boy/girl" = Trans

What is so difficult about that? I understand trans may want to be seen as "woman", but are trans not telling those who they may become intimate with that they are trans?


----------



## uhpharm01

Thingofbeauty said:


> No you don't



Lol


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> On another note, here's Kris and Caitlyn's friend Ronda. Don't y'all think she looks like Kris before she had all the plastic surgery? She's really pretty.
> 
> http://hollywoodlife.com/celeb/ronda-kamihira/



I don't know. I watched the show and when she moves her mouth, she has the Kylie thing going on with it.  The picture in the link is nice, but she's older now, with a lot more sun damage and bigger implants than a K.


----------



## chowlover2

skarsbabe said:


> Why did I google, whyyyyyyyyyyyy?!
> 
> 
> WARNING
> http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/08/09/i-am-cait-caitlyn-jenner-bathing-suit-august-9-recap/




I wonder when Caitlin has scheduled her Brazilian butt lift?


----------



## shiny_things

DC-Cutie said:


> and if I hear the term cis-women one more time!  We are natural born women, no nicknames or other terms needed.  thank you



This bugs me too. A cis woman is a woman, there's no need for cis. It's like saying 'a single bachelor'. Woman (and if a distinction must be made) Trans Woman will do.


----------



## Docjeun

Encore Hermes said:


> Amen +1000
> 
> I looked up awhile back
> 
> Cisgender is a word that applies to the vast majority of people, describing a person who is not transgender. If a doctor announces, &#8220;It&#8217;s a girl!&#8221; in the delivery room based on the child&#8217;s body and that baby grows up to identify as a woman, that person is cisgender. Similarly, a baby designated male in the delivery room who grows up to identify as a man is cisgender. This is the case for about 99% of the population, at least according to the best available statistics.
> 
> http://time.com/3636430/cisgender-definition/


OMG, now I'v hear it ALL


----------



## ByeKitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> But then you have people saying "She's not a real woman! _I'm_ a real woman!" So you can't win! I agree, people need to get over themselves and stop acting like gender is this exclusive club. Drop the gender roles, I say.





michie said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought ByeKitty was saying:
> 
> "It's a girl"  to woman = Woman
> "It's a girl/boy, but now a boy/girl" = Trans
> 
> What is so difficult about that? I understand trans may want to be seen as "woman", but are trans not telling those who they may become intimate with that they are trans?


I actually left that in the middle... But I agree totally that womanhood is not some exclusive club that you can never join if you're not born as such. I believe that woman should be enough, _certainly_ to describe a naturally born woman, but also a trans woman. But I also agree: for clarity you may want to add "trans" to a trans title, while I think adding "cis" or whatever for a regular, born woman is absolute BS.


----------



## Jikena

ByeKitty said:


> I actually left that in the middle... But I agree totally that womanhood is not some exclusive club that you can never join if you're not born as such. I believe that woman should be enough, _certainly_ to describe a naturally born woman, but also a trans woman. But I also agree: for clarity you may want to add "trans" to a trans title, while I think adding "cis" or whatever for a regular, born woman is absolute BS.



Completely agree.


----------



## bagsforme

I get the feeling Rhonda is in love with Caitlyn.  Probably felt that way when he was Bruce.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bagsforme said:


> I get the feeling Rhonda is in love with Caitlyn.  Probably felt that way when he was Bruce.



That's exactly the impression I get too!


----------



## Thingofbeauty

chowlover2 said:


> I wonder when Caitlin has scheduled her Brazilian butt lift?


Dead!


----------



## BadAzzBish

bagsforme said:


> I get the feeling Rhonda is in love with Caitlyn.  Probably felt that way when he was Bruce.



Me too!


----------



## creighbaby

I had to stop watching 2/3 into the show because of the nonsense.


I don't believe the crocodile tears Cait sheds. 

Considering that her daughters and step-daughters spend a lot of time thinking about fashion and style, I don't understand why she has stupid conversations about what is stylish. Way too fake.

When the woman went outside with Rhonda and said she didn't realise that she was Cait's friend. Of course she wouldn't know based on the way Cait treats her. Poor Rhonda.

I don't know what kind of relationship Cait has will Ellen DeGeneres, but it seems awfully presumptuous to say they were going to get the woman on Ellen and get her into nursing school.

I am a bit confused and skeptical about the reason the woman never got into nursing school because she is trans. I don't know if that is the sole reason. If she was applying to schools in LGTBQ-friendly cities would that be an issue? 

The suck-up award goes to the woman with the gold weave who acknowledges that she sounds masculine. Seriously, Cait is the woman she admires most after her mother?? Oh, hell no.

I am done with my vent.


----------



## creighbaby

Is aw this thumbnail on the dailymail and thought Cait had landed another magazine cover. I was very wrong.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Oh d@mn!


----------



## VickyB

creighbaby said:


> Is aw this thumbnail on the dailymail and thought Cait had landed another magazine cover. I was very wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3095227



How about the naked pregnant naya pics! Kim must be having a right fit!!!


----------



## ByeKitty

VickyB said:


> How about the naked pregnant naya pics! Kim must be having a right fit!!!



I swear she wants to be Kim....


----------



## ChanelMommy

Speechless.


----------



## LVl0v3r

chowlover2 said:


> I wonder when Caitlin has scheduled her Brazilian butt lift?




Lol [emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Just saw this pic of Cindy Crawford and her daughter on Twitter, and I swear to gawd, I thought it was CJenner for a second!


----------



## berrydiva

Her daughter is beautiful!


----------



## Rouge H

Cindy's daughter is gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

berrydiva said:


> Her daughter is beautiful!





Rouge H said:


> Cindy's daughter is gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous!!



Isn't she though?!?!


----------



## Swanky

tmz
Oh my. . .  Kris' boyfriend sits between Kris and Cait!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Guess that could be the next storyline. Three's Company.


----------



## kirsten

Khloe's new boyfriend should run for his life.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Cindy's daughter is just like a miniature version of herself. She has a very mature face for such a young girl. 

Guess it's nice to Caitlyn, Kris, and the fam getting along? That's all I've got...


----------



## MJDaisy

i think it's nice to see pics of cait and kris getting along...even if it does look a bit awk.


----------



## Jayne1

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> Cindy's daughter is just like a miniature version of herself. She has a very mature face for such a young girl.



I hear she's a piece of work, that little girl, she knows she's stunning&#8230; but I wonder if she's upset she's so tiny and not tall like her mom. If she can't model, what else can she do?


----------



## whimsic

Cindy's daughter.... not fair


----------



## ByeKitty

Jayne1 said:


> I hear she's a piece of work, that little girl, she knows she's stunning but I wonder if she's upset she's so tiny and not tall like her mom. If she can't model, what else can she do?



She's only 13 though, right? She's still growing probably!


----------



## tweegy

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> tmz
> Oh my. . .  Kris' boyfriend sits between Kris and Cait!
> 
> 
> ll-media.tmz.com/2015/08/12/kylie-jenner-birthday-inside-photos-011-480w.jpg
> ll-media.tmz.com/2015/08/12/kylie-jenner-birthday-inside-photos-015-480w.jpg
> ll-media.tmz.com/2015/08/12/kylie-jenner-birthday-inside-photos-016-480w.jpg
> ll-media.tmz.com/2015/08/12/kylie-jenner-birthday-inside-photos-018-480w.jpgll-media.tmz.com/2015/08/12/kylie-jenner-birthday-inside-photos-0133-480w.jpg



Anyone ever thought about how this family was when they first got their show and how they are now? 

The vast change....


----------



## Sassys

tweegy said:


> Anyone ever thought about how this family was when they first got their show and how they are now?
> 
> The vast change....


 

2007 - year show first came out


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

They were a cute and only mildly dysfunctional then (really what family isn't). They've fallen hard in the last few years.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Jayne1 said:


> I hear she's a piece of work, that little girl, she knows she's stunning but I wonder if she's upset she's so tiny and not tall like her mom. If she can't model, what else can she do?




They'll make exceptions for the stunning daughter of the famous rich super model. Or maybe they'll give her an acting career.


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> I hear she's a piece of work, that little girl, she knows she's stunning but I wonder if she's upset she's so tiny and not tall like her mom. If she can't model, what else can she do?



With a face like that, she can still model, trust!


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> 2007 - year show first came out



Unbelievable. 

Kourt had work done too, but she still looks like herself.  Look at Khloe's butt and nose!


----------



## Swanky

Cindy's DD isn't done growing at all.  Half of my 14 yr old DDs friend's haven't started their periods, you grow for 2 years after the onset typically.  She's GORGEOUS!


----------



## Bag*Snob

And notice no Rob in the 2007 pics either.  Poor socks.  Should have seen it coming.


----------



## knasarae

Jayne1 said:


> Unbelievable.
> 
> Kourt had work done too, but she still looks like herself.  Look at Khloe's butt and nose!




She grew her butt in the gym, doll.


----------



## Docjeun

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just saw this pic of Cindy Crawford and her daughter on Twitter, and I swear to gawd, I thought it was CJenner for a second!


Wow, Cindy Crawford looks terrible.


----------



## michie

Trulyadiva said:


> Wow, Cindy Crawford looks terrible.



I'm glad somebody said it. Would not want to rush adulthood if I had a chance of looking like that...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

This could be interesting and yes, I'll probably watch.

http://www.etonline.com/news/169929...nner_about_mom_kris_testy_i_am_cait_exchange/


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> This could be interesting and yes, I'll probably watch.
> 
> http://www.etonline.com/news/169929...nner_about_mom_kris_testy_i_am_cait_exchange/



I'm looking forward to this issue... Because Kim and Khloe have had NO problem bringing people down on their way to the top.  to tell them to NOT discuss Kris is BS.  He was married to her for 20+ years, so it's only fitting at some point he discuss her evil azz.

They have no problem telling her to STFU, call her bish and every other name under the sun.


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm looking forward to this issue... Because Kim and Khloe have had NO problem bringing people down on their way to the top.  to tell them to NOT discuss Kris is BS.  He was married to her for 20+ years, so it's only fitting at some point he discuss her evil azz.
> 
> They have no problem telling her to STFU, call her bish and every other name under the sun.


 
Thank you! My mouth and I will say what I want.


----------



## horse17

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just saw this pic of Cindy Crawford and her daughter on Twitter, and I swear to gawd, I thought it was CJenner for a second!


yup!.....she does!


----------



## horse17

Jayne1 said:


> I hear she's a piece of work, that little girl, she knows she's stunning&#8230; but I wonder if she's upset she's so tiny and not tall like her mom. If she can't model, what else can she do?


shes only 13 or 14!....lol!.

..Im 5''9 and I wasnt that tall at that age..


----------



## janie2002

Sassys said:


> Thank you! My mouth and I will say what I want.



Agree I hope Caitlyn does'nt back down. Sounds liek the text their discussing said "we dont care what you do" but  Khloe is claiming they meant it in a positive way.


----------



## LVoeletters

Cis and trans?! I thought I was done with that stuff when I left organic chem!!!


----------



## LVoeletters

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just saw this pic of Cindy Crawford and her daughter on Twitter, and I swear to gawd, I thought it was CJenner for a second!




And this my dears is what the genetic lottery looks like.


----------



## labelwhore04

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just saw this pic of Cindy Crawford and her daughter on Twitter, and I swear to gawd, I thought it was CJenner for a second!



Wow her daughter is beautiful! Cindy is looking rough though, she really does look like Cait there. Why are people always going on about how well Cindy is aging? She looks older than 49 IMO. I thought she was closer to 60, in that case she would look great, but she's not even 50 yet. My mom is 53 and looks better than that and she's had no plastic surgery. Cindy just has that typical frozen, botoxed look that makes you look 10 years older.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

labelwhore04 said:


> Wow her daughter is beautiful! Cindy is looking rough though, she really does look like Cait there. Why are people always going on about how well Cindy is aging? She looks older than 49 IMO. I thought she was closer to 60, in that case she would look great, but she's not even 50 yet. My mom is 53 and looks better than that and she's had no plastic surgery. Cindy just has that typical frozen, botoxed look that makes you look 10 years older.


Agreed. She's had too much work done, especially around her eyes, which I think she was known for. Her eyes are ruined for sure and age her tremendously


----------



## DC-Cutie

labelwhore04 said:


> Wow her daughter is beautiful! Cindy is looking rough though, she really does look like Cait there. Why are people always going on about how well Cindy is aging? She looks older than 49 IMO. I thought she was closer to 60, in that case she would look great, but she's not even 50 yet. My mom is 53 and looks better than that and she's had no plastic surgery. Cindy just has that typical frozen, botoxed look that makes you look 10 years older.





Thingofbeauty said:


> Agreed. She's had too much work done, especially around her eyes, which I think she was known for. Her eyes are ruined for sure and age her tremendously



ya'll are not seeing that natural beauty that comes from her Meaningful Beauty products.  She looks wide awake and refresh by just using those simple products (sarcasm)


----------



## Thingofbeauty

DC-Cutie said:


> ya'll are not seeing that natural beauty that comes from her Meaningful Beauty products.  She looks wide awake and refresh by just using those simple products (sarcasm)


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> ya'll are not seeing that natural beauty that comes from her Meaningful Beauty products.  She looks wide awake and refresh by just using those simple products (sarcasm)



I've been meaning to try her products to get the look of a facelift, Botox and fillers.


----------



## pixiejenna

kirsten said:


> Khloe's new boyfriend should run for his life.
> 
> View attachment 3096304



Na he's just in it to hit it he's not sticking around.


----------



## zippie

horse17 said:


> shes only 13 or 14!....lol!.
> 
> ..Im 5''9 and I wasnt that tall at that age..


 


Cindy is only 5'9" so her daughter is pretty short but should grow a few inches.  Maybe Cindy has heels on.   I was 5'7" at that age and grew to 5'9" and now I'm shrinking, 5'8 1/2".  She messed with her eyes years ago and now she has that sunken in weird look, her nose job was subtle.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Sassys said:


> 2007 - year show first came out



Kim is soooo pretty pre- current surg and Kourtney never ages


----------



## qudz104

LVoeletters said:


> Cis and trans?! I thought I was done with that stuff when I left organic chem!!!




OMG lol!!! Pharmacy school Chem class memories!


----------



## DC-Cutie

One woman&#8217;s Facebook status has created so much controversy that it was actually pulled down off the internet!

Emilee Danielson was a radio talk show host in Minneapolis, Minnesota&#8211;today she&#8217;s known for &#8220;the post&#8221;. Here&#8217;s her viral thoughts on Caitlyn Jenner&#8217;s transformation, taken from her Facebook page:

&#8220;I&#8217;ve heard you say you &#8220;identify as a woman&#8221;. But I find that highly unlikely and insulting. You see, Mr. Jenner, there is more to being a woman than beautiful gowns and fake boobs. There is more to being a woman than makeup and pretty hair. This is something we mothers begin teaching our young daughters at an early age.
As a woman of nearly 50 years, I can tell you what it is truly like to be a woman. You may be able to understand or even empathize, but you are definitely NOT able to &#8220;identify&#8221;. For instance, you will never know what it is like to wake up every 28 days with searing stomach pain so bad it doubles you over, yet still trot off to work or school as though everything is fine. You will never know what it is like to have your car break down on the side of the road and when a couple men stop to help your prayer is that their intentions are good because there is no way on earth you have the ability to physically hang let alone overpower them. You have no idea what it is like to long to have a child only to have your third miscarriage, yet still manage to be able to share in the joy of all the other young mothers in your life. You will never know what it&#8217;s like to get pregnant, gain 40 lbs (1/3 your total body weight), hurl all morning long for 4 months straight, yet still care for your other two toddlers, and not drive your husband to the brink. You will never know what it is like to give birth to a 10 lb. baby boy with absolutely no medication!!! You will never know what it is like at the age of 50 to be walking down the streets of Phoenix and popping in the Dairy Queen for a cool refreshing treat only to be gripped at that moment with your fourth hot flash of the day.
I have, in my life, met many women who have been widowed. For me to walk up to them and say I identify with them would be ludicrous. Like I said earlier, I can empathize with them, but I cannot identify myself as one of them because I don&#8217;t know what that is like &#8211; I can only imagine. And let&#8217;s not even talk about women who have worked through their double mastectomy.
No, Mr. Jenner there is more to being a woman than you could ever experience or even imagine. And lesson #1 for all true women is this &#8211; botox injections, plastic surgeries, designer clothing, and public approval is NOT what makes a woman. A real woman is one who in spite of the stretch marks, age spots, dirt under her nails and tired eyes, and even with 1/2 plastic photoshopped supermodels as her competition, she has carried herself in such a way that her family, husband, and children, see her real beauty and find her far more valuable than rubies or diamonds and they rise up and call her blessed.
Mr. Jenner you are a privileged white male living in the U.S.A. In fact, you are so free and so privileged, you can even spend your massive amounts of money to change your outward appearance to whatever you wish. That is NOT something most woman around the globe are free to do even if they wanted. MOST women in our world don&#8217;t even have access to a high school education. So, Mr. Jenner, I find your claim to identify as &#8220;a woman&#8221; disingenuous, uneducated, and honestly &#8211; quite offensive.&#8221;

http://www.faithit.com/heres-the-viral-post-about-bruce-jenner-that-facebook-tried-to-take-down/


----------



## bisousx

Lord. Some people make it sound like being a woman is such a terrible thing.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Kudos to her. I *completely* agree with her statement. I'm puzzled as to why it was deleted.
There was nothing about it that was derogatory or offensive in my opinion.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bisousx said:


> Lord. Some people make it sound like being a woman is such a terrible thing.



Some of us just make it look easy.


----------



## shiny_things

bisousx said:


> Lord. Some people make it sound like being a woman is such a terrible thing.



I know, right?

There are plenty of naturally born women who can't identify with that either.


----------



## lizmil

She listed a lot of "negatives" but I get her point.


----------



## maddie66

shiny_things said:


> I know, right?
> 
> 
> 
> There are plenty of naturally born women who can't identify with that either.




Exactly.  I don't think you are any less of a woman if you don't have children or cramps or hot flashes!  We may have certain common experiences, but being a woman means different things for each person.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I agree with the point she was *trying* to make.


----------



## DC-Cutie

from her post I got that she wanted to point out to Caitlyn is that being a woman isn't all about the superficial stuff...


----------



## Lisabarbiedoll

Ok


----------



## Jikena

So, if I don't ever have a child, I'm not a woman ? :greengrin:

What she's saying is offensive. She's saying that Caitlyn is not a real woman. And she's refering to her as "Mr Jenner" and "male". It's a transphobic text. I'm not gonna go into the details but this woman seems stupid, I'm sorry.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Is Cait truly hurting anyone by identifying as a woman? No one is in her shoes to know how she has felt her whole life. I don't understand the need to take away someone else's happiness or the need to diminish another person. Live your own life to the best of your ability and stop judging others. The side effect will be that you find yourself happier.


----------



## maddie66

DC-Cutie said:


> from her post I got that she wanted to point out to Caitlyn is that being a woman isn't all about the superficial stuff...




Very true.  But I guess if you are someone like Caitlyn who has had to bury that side for 60 years, the superficial stuff must be so new and exciting.  It's just too bad she has decided to Keep up with the Kardashians as she makes the transition.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

I also understand the point she was trying to make. Was any explanation given as to why it was pulled down?


----------



## labelwhore04

Jikena said:


> So, if I don't ever have a child, I'm not a woman ? :greengrin:
> 
> What she's saying is offensive. She's saying that Caitlyn is not a real woman. And she's refering to her as "Mr Jenner" and "male". It's a transphobic text. I'm not gonna go into the details but this woman seems stupid, I'm sorry.



This. Her little "rant" was incredibly transphobic. If she was trying to make a point about superficiality, she failed. Also she made it sound like a woman's sole purpose in life is making babies and pleasing your husband. Being a woman is much more than getting married and having kids. There are tons of "real women" that dont do those things, so she can have several seats.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'd like for C Jenner to tell us in her own words what it's like to be a woman....


----------



## QueenLouis

Here's how it hurts me potentially. I am acquainted with one trans woman. A friend of a friend who is a very active tweeter, and transitioning from male to female quite a ways into their adulthood. The person is a very vocal trans advocate. I really gave no thought to the topic until I became acquainted with this person.

Much of what this person tweets & retweets are angry posts against women who were born women. This person has no problem organizing events that exclude men, but has no tolerance for women who want to gather with only natural-born women. This person is still attracted to and dates women, despite having a large bone to pick with natural-born women. 

This person insists they ARE a woman, and that they are uncomfortable using a men's bathroom.

Well sorry, here's someone with the strength of a man, still attracted to women, yet very angry at women. I'm uncomfortable using a bathroom with him. But I'm repeatedly told that my feelings don't matter, only his feelings matter. And God forbid I offend him in any way. All I see in this person is a selfish man who doesn't give a damn about natural-born women. And who is a total hypocrite by excluding men, yet vitriolic against women who want to have events/places that are for natural-born women only.

This person's advocacy has had the opposite effect on me as his-to-her intent was.

So basically, I get the "point" of the article too. You don't have to experience all of those things to be a woman. There are as many ways to feel like a woman as there are women in the world. But if you're not one, how do you know what it feels like??? That's like me saying, I feel more black than caucasian. How on earth would I know??? People lost their sh!t when the white woman working for the NAACP was passing as a black woman.

I'm also a bit offended that they seem to be solidifying stereotypical gender roles by saying these things that they want & feel can ONLY exist in a woman. You can be whoever you want to be in any body you have.

By all means, dress however you want to dress, wear make-up, have plastic surgery. Do it all with my blessings and my belief that you should be able to live however you want free from discrimination. But you are not a woman. You are a man who has had a bunch of cosmetic surgery & hormonal manipulation.

However, a man demanding access to women's bathrooms & locker rooms is a violation on me. My whole life, and everywhere I've been in the world, shared bathrooms are designated by sex. If sex & gender are not the same things, and people claim that bathrooms should be used based on "gender", the same people argue that there are many more than 2 genders. So if bathrooms are organized by gender, start segregating them based on the wide variety of gender identities there are. (Better yet, no shared bathrooms or locker rooms at all)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Caitlyn Jenner*     &#8207;@*Caitlyn_Jenner*  Aug 13 
Vote for the obvious #*SocialMediaQueen* in this group of young princesses! #*Cait4Queen* http://vote.teenchoice.com 




(Picture from CJ Twitter Page) Didn't want y'all to think I'd photoshopped it!
















*Social Media Queen*
Caitlyn Jenner
Katy Perry
Miley Cyrus
Nicki Minaj
Selena Gomez
Taylor Swift


http://www.eonline.com/news/686810/...-include-caitlyn-jenner-taylor-swift-and-more


----------



## Jikena

labelwhore04 said:


> This. Her little "rant" was incredibly transphobic. If she was trying to make a point about superficiality, she failed. Also she made it sound like a woman's sole purpose in life is making babies and pleasing your husband. Being a woman is much more than getting married and having kids. There are tons of "real women" that dont do those things, so she can have several seats.


----------



## Encore Hermes

DC-Cutie said:


> from her post I got that she wanted to point out to Caitlyn is that *being a woman isn't all about the superficial stuff*...



Yes, that is what I got from it and detailing situations relevant to her own life.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Interesting how some perceive it to be transphobic and others don't.
Like I said, I'd love to hear out of C Jenner's own mouth what makes her a woman. So far I've seen nothing BUT shallowness.


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> Interesting how some perceive it to be transphobic and others don't.
> Like I said, I'd love to hear out of C Jenner's own mouth what makes her a woman. So far I've seen nothing BUT shallowness.



There are plenty of shallow, plastic surgery, social media, looks-obsessed cisgender women. The term "woman" does not instantly confer some noble approach to life.

Just saying.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mistikat said:


> There are plenty of shallow, plastic surgery, social media, looks-obsessed cisgender women. The term "woman" does not instantly confer some noble approach to life.
> 
> Just saying.



I agree, however, she's talked the talk, now it's time for her to walk the walk.
Just sayin' too.


----------



## shiny_things

I sort of get the point that she was trying to make, but she was missing the point. You don't need to identify with any of those things to identify as a woman, if you did, there'd be a lot of women who don't identify as women. She was also basing it on her own concept of what being a woman is, which as we know is a very subjective thing.

But using the phrase 'Mr Jenner' to me gave the real game away with her underlying ideas. She could have said all she did without incorrectly pronouning her on purpose and in doing so gives the WHOLE message a transphobic undertone.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

shiny_things said:


> I sort of get the point that she was trying to make, but she was missing the point. You don't need to identify with any of those things to identify as a woman, if you did, there'd be a lot of women who don't identify as women. She was also basing it on her own concept of what being a woman is, which as we know is a very subjective thing.
> 
> 
> 
> But using the phrase 'Mr Jenner' to me gave the real game away with her underlying ideas. She could have said all she did without incorrectly pronouning her on purpose and in doing so gives the WHOLE message a transphobic undertone.




This!!!!! You use the pronoun the individual wants to be referred as. It is a slap in the face otherwise.


----------



## QueenLouis

Dallas_Girl said:


> This!!!!! You use the pronoun the individual wants to be referred as. It is a slap in the face otherwise.




I don't see how it's a slap in the face. It's just the English language. Males are referred to as "he", females are referred to as "she".


----------



## bisousx

Facepalm.


----------



## mistikat

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree, however, she's talked the talk, now it's time for her to walk the walk.
> Just sayin' too.



Walk what walk?? You've said she's shallow. Well, so are tons of cisgender women. She is living as she pleases, which is her right to do.


----------



## labelwhore04

It's really difficult to describe what being a woman feels like without the obvious superficial aspect. If you were to ask me why i feel like a woman(other than liking dresses,makeup, etc) i would have no idea how to describe it. I feel like a woman because i just do, and im sure its that way for a lot of transgender people.


----------



## shiny_things

I've asked this of my Trans patients and the best way they describe it is that their soul or sense of self doesn't match their body and it's only when they try and match their soul to the opposite gender that it makes sense.


----------



## queen

mistikat said:


> Walk what walk?? You've said she's shallow. Well, so are tons of cisgender women. She is living as she pleases, which is her right to do.


No need to attack one another over this issue.  Jenner is becoming wealthier by the day on this turn of events.  Anyone who has lived as a competitive male and been very successful at it can fight their own battle.  Caitlyn has been lavished with attention and her right's protected.  No problem there but others also have a right to their opinion on the topic.  If she did not want comments she should have not made a public declaration.  Most of us have to take our criticism without protection.  If you do it, anything, it's ok for someone who saw it to comment on it.  Not always polite but it will happen just the same.  I respect she is choosing to live her life as a woman.  That does not make her one.


----------



## bisousx

labelwhore04 said:


> It's really difficult to describe what being a woman feels like without the obvious superficial aspect. If you were to ask me why i feel like a woman(other than liking dresses,makeup, etc) i would have no idea how to describe it. I feel like a woman because i just do, and im sure its that way for a lot of transgender people.



This is how I feel too. I don't keep a long list of negative experiences that make up my existence as a woman and place womanhood on some pedestal or exclusive club. It is just life for me.


----------



## labelwhore04

shiny_things said:


> I've asked this of my Trans patients and the best way they describe it is that their soul or sense of self doesn't match their body and it's only when they try and match their soul to the opposite gender that it makes sense.



Yes exactly. Thats the only way to really describe the feeling. But it seems like some people want definite and specific traits to describe what it feels like, which is impossible to do. Its one of those things that is hard to put into words. 

There are effeminate gay men out there who may exhibit some "female" traits but they are still comfortable being a man. The same way there are tomboy women out there who still identify as a woman despite not having the stereotypical traits.


----------



## exotikittenx

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree, however, she's talked the talk, now it's time for her to walk the walk.
> Just sayin' too.



So what would you like to see her do to show she is a woman? Please enlighten us. 


And seriously, the transphobic comments in this thread are appalling.


----------



## queen

exotikittenx said:


> So what would you like to see her do to show she is a woman? Please enlighten us.
> 
> 
> And seriously, the transphobic comments in this thread are appalling.



Because someone does not see this just as you does not make them transphobic.


----------



## Jikena

exotikittenx said:


> So what would you like to see her do to show she is a woman? Please enlighten us.
> 
> 
> And seriously, the transphobic comments in this thread are appalling.



Agree with you. Too bad saying what I want about those comments would result in my ban. :greengrin:


----------



## StopHammertime

LOL. Everyone is looking to be offended these days. This thread is a fantastic example. Literally both sides, everybody.


----------



## Lejic

exotikittenx said:


> So what would you like to see her do to show she is a woman? Please enlighten us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And seriously, the transphobic comments in this thread are appalling.




Honestly it seems just narrow minded in general. I have zero feelings towards C and have no transgender friends so "no dog in the fight" so to speak, however the original poster sounds like someone who would judge other women very harshly too. What if a woman had to have a hysterectomy due to an illness at a young age and did not adopt -- are they not a woman now? Not everybody has to suffer period pains to be a woman, not have kids.

I am not at ALL saying C is a great person or whatever but that woman that wrote the comment just sounds spiteful towards anyone unlike herself at all. Honestly reminds me of old women who tut at young women and judge them for trivial things like "kissing boys" or "not married still and she's 25 already."


----------



## mistikat

queen said:


> No need to attack one another over this issue.  Jenner is becoming wealthier by the day on this turn of events.  Anyone who has lived as a competitive male and been very successful at it can fight their own battle.  Caitlyn has been lavished with attention and her right's protected.  No problem there but others also have a right to their opinion on the topic.  If she did not want comments she should have not made a public declaration.  Most of us have to take our criticism without protection.  If you do it, anything, it's ok for someone who saw it to comment on it.  Not always polite but it will happen just the same.  I respect she is choosing to live her life as a woman.  That does not make her one.



How is my comment an attack? When someone says Caitlyn needs to walk the walk, I don't know what that means. And the poster who mentioned it hasn't explained it, either.

And I'll say it again, as I've posted something similar in this thread before - she doesn't need your approval or mine or anyone else's to live as a woman. It's her choice.


----------



## basicandorganic

Coach Lover Too said:


> Interesting how some perceive it to be transphobic and others don't.
> Like I said, I'd love to hear out of C Jenner's own mouth what makes her a woman. So far I've seen nothing BUT shallowness.



 Good post. I, for one, don't believe being a woman is a feeling or an identity. There is nothing in me that makes me "feel" like I'm a woman. I just am. It's a descriptive word. I can't relate to people saying it's a feeling at all. To me, it's like saying that I "feel" chinese, no I just am, just like I am a woman. These aren't feelings, they are states.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Again, so baffled why people care so much. If she is happy that's all that matters. There is no need to keeping saying you don't agree with the transition. How would you feel if people judged and looked down on your life choices and constantly told you so even if it makes you happy. 

It's like judging a woman for not having kids and telling her she is making a mistake and will regret it one day. It's nobody's business!!


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I agree, however, she's talked the talk, now it's time for her to walk the walk.



You mean like taking the Gender pay gap?


----------



## queen

mistikat said:


> How is my comment an attack? When someone says Caitlyn needs to walk the walk, I don't know what that means. And the poster who mentioned it hasn't explained it, either.
> 
> And I'll say it again, as I've posted something similar in this thread before - she doesn't need your approval or mine or anyone else's to live as a woman. It's her choice.



Did not mean to quote you.  Beg your pardon.  I simply hit reply, it came up and I did not remove it.  My fault.   If you read my post you will see I agreed with you that she is free to live her live as a woman.  She is still not a woman but a male choosing to live as a woman.  The fact that she fathered numerous children and competed in the Olympics as a male prove that.  That said I do not care if she lives as a woman only that she is being declared a woman and she is not.  I can dye my hair red and declare myself a redhead but I am still only a dyed red head.  Gender, sex, whatever you choose to use as the term makes a difference when presenting yourself to the opposite sex.  I believe the mother of Jazz, the transgender youngster, has made it perfectly clear that one must disclose this or one's life may be in danger.  Nobody likes to be fooled nor forced into going along with something they do not agree with.


----------



## dangerouscurves

queen said:


> Did not mean to quote you.  Beg your pardon.  I simply hit reply, it came up and I did not remove it.  My fault.   If you read my post you will see I agreed with you that she is free to live her live as a woman.  She is still not a woman but a male choosing to live as a woman.  The fact that she fathered numerous children and competed in the Olympics as a male prove that.  That said I do not care if she lives as a woman only that she is being declared a woman and she is not.  I can dye my hair red and declare myself a redhead but I am still only a dyed red head.  Gender, sex, whatever you choose to use as the term makes a difference when presenting yourself to the opposite sex.  I believe the mother of Jazz, the transgender youngster, has made it perfectly clear that one must disclose this or one's life may be in danger.  Nobody likes to be fooled nor forced into going along with something they do not agree with.




You'll never understand, now please just leave it.


----------



## queen

dangerouscurves said:


> You'll never understand, now please just leave it.




Who are you to be the one to decide this.  I can easily leave it alone.  Can you?


----------



## Encore Hermes

I was going to post pics but........

So if women are the stronger sex according to science, according to the definition of who is a woman  who is stronger Cait or Chaz. 






People


----------



## dangerouscurves

queen said:


> Who are you to be the one to decide this.  I can easily leave it alone.  Can you?




When you are so strongly refusing all the information given to you by the ladies here then what's the point? You'll never be able  to change what we believe and vice versa. This is my last comment for you.


----------



## prettyprincess

Dallas_Girl said:


> Again, so baffled why people care so much. If she is happy that's all that matters. There is no need to keeping saying you don't agree with the transition. How would you feel if people judged and looked down on your life choices and constantly told you so even if it makes you happy.
> 
> It's like judging a woman for not having kids and telling her she is making a mistake and will regret it one day. It's nobody's business!!



I think its bc some people on here are trying to force feed this issue. Thats what annoys me personally. I couldn't care less how ppl lives their life, but you arent going to convince me that he's a she bc he suddenly identifies as such. Ive seen some comments in here saying he's is a woman same as if he had been born that way, sorry its just not the same.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

prettyprincess said:


> I think its bc some people on here are trying to force feed this issue. Thats what annoys me personally. I couldn't care less how ppl lives their life, but you arent going to convince me that he's a she bc he suddenly identifies as such. Ive seen some comments in here saying he's is a woman same as if he had been born that way, sorry its just not the same.



I think you are missing the point. Gender/Sex isn't black and white, there are so many grey areas. 

And Caitlynn Jenner wants to be referred to as she, it doesn't kill you to oblige. It doesn't harm you in any way to make her happy or any transgender individual for that matter. 

I could go into a whole lot more about male and female roles being completely society and culturally driven. If you really look at the biogloical aspect, yes women can have babies. But wait not all woman can have babies (myself being one of them). Does that make me less of a woman. Please explain to me biologically what makes a woman a woman. And no I'm not talking about what society has brainwashed us with. I'm talking the deep biological aspects and brain waves that makes us different.


----------



## queen

dangerouscurves said:


> When you are so strongly refusing all the information given to you by the ladies here then what's the point? You'll never be able  to change what we believe and vice versa. This is my last comment for you.




I am afraid you do not understand.  I am not strongly refusing information given by the ladies.  I was under the assumption that this was a discussion, on an internet board, and everyone is free to have an opinion, as long as it is believed to be factual and presented in a polite manner.  I am not trying to change what anyone believes just stating what I believe.  I think that is fair all the way around.   I have no beef with you.  You addressed me by quote.  Have a nice day!


----------



## nycmom

http://www.opnlttr.com/letter/open-...garding-caitlyn-jenner-and-what-defines-woman

_Subject: An open letter to Emilee Danielson, on her post regarding Caitlyn Jenner and what defines a woman
From: Kristen Peterson

Dear Emilee Danielson:

You have made a small splash in the social media world with your opinion on Caitlyn Jenner. Your post on the issue popped up on my Facebook news feed, and I felt the need to introduce myself.

Hi! My name is Kristen Peterson, and 12 years ago at the age of 16 I was diagnosed with a birth defect called Mayer-Rokitansky-Kuster-Hauser Syndrome (quite a mouthful, I know, we call it 'MRKH').

I am a biological female, 46xx chromosomes, but born completely missing a uterus, cervix, and both fallopian tubes. I was also born with a severely shortened vaginal canal, making sex impossible without some form of treatment (I chose surgery).

As you can imagine, it was quite a shock to me at such a young age. You see, without a uterus I did not receive my 'golden ticket' into womanhood: I never started my period. And while women tend to drop their jaws in jealousy whenever I make this statement, they forget the biological reason for both a uterus and in a way, a period: pregnancy.

Without a uterus my body is completely incapable of carrying a pregnancy. There are no pills, herbal supplements, or 'if you stop trying it will happen' solutions for me.

I will never have a period, and I will never experience pregnancy.

I struggled for many, many years about whether I could call myself a woman after receiving this diagnosis. Your post declares the opinion that I shared for a long time: you can't be a woman without experiencing a monthly period or a pregnancy.

But... being a woman is so much more than those things. The popular world opinion that the worth of a woman is dependent on her ability to reproduce is a paramount reason that made my journey with this condition such a struggle.

My worth as a woman, as a human being, cannot be put into such a small box.

I was offended by your post, because it highlights a key issue in the world of infertility and adds to the shame many of us experience on a daily level.

You say Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman, because (among a few other small things) she does not have a period and cannot get pregnant. With that mindset, are you also saying that I am not a woman? That my inability to carry a pregnancy makes me worthless in my own gender? That because I don't bleed every month, I can't be female? That because I don't have children to take care of, my life as a woman holds less meaning?

I am not transgender, but I know what it feels like (on a smaller level) to wrestle with gender identity. Know that as a woman, in many ways I can relate more to Caitlyn Jenner than I can to you.

As you can imagine, I have met many women in my life. Women who don't have MRKH, and for me to walk up to them and say I identify with them is something I can't quite do. I can empathize with many of the physical things they experience, but I have always had a hard time identifying myself as one of them. I don't know what it's like to experience the things you say all woman experience - I can only imagine.

Your opinion is your own and you have every right to voice it. I only mean to give you some perspective on what it means to 'be a woman'. You speak with nearly 50 years of experience of being a woman, and I speak with 12 years of experience of questioning what exactly a woman is.

You're correct: being a woman is not about injections, plastic surgeries, and designer clothing. It's not about beautiful gowns and fake boobs. It's not about makeup or pretty hair. It's not about anything else you mentioned either.

As a woman, I find it important to be a strong role model to those around me. To speak up when I see something wrong. To show kindness and empathy to those I come in contact with, even if I don't understand them. To find my strength when it fails. And above all, to show love and compassion to everyone, even if I do not agree with them.

That is the woman I want to be.

Because a woman is whatever and whoever she wants to be.

Not whatever society tells her she needs to be... or tells her she can't be.

Perhaps it is you that does not understand what a woman is._


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Great post @nycmom.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Eye opener.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Yes great post nycmon


----------



## Jikena

dangerouscurves said:


> You'll never understand, now please just leave it.



Don't lose time on these people...


----------



## JetSetGo!

*Looks like it's time for another reminder. This thread's topic is Caitlyn Jenner. Please take and debates about transgenderism elsewhere. Thanks! *


----------



## DC-Cutie

watching Kim tell Caitlyn what to do in regards to the vanity fair article and Kris' feelings...  Lordt she has A LOT of nerve, telling Caitlyn she needs to apologize via twitter **faints**  If Kris is feeling some kind of way, Kris needs to be there not her minion representatives

Caitlyn said "I'm not apologizing"...  nuff said!

What Kim needs to realize is that there is Kris' story, Caitlyn's story and somewhere in between in the truth.  I'm leaning towards all the truth being on Caitlyn's side of the story.


----------



## blackkitty4378

That's such a stupid status... "You're not a woman because you're not a wife or a mother." Not all women are wives or mothers! So according to that woman's opinion, I don't know what it's like to be a real woman, either. SMH.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> Is Cait truly hurting anyone by identifying as a woman? No one is in her shoes to know how she has felt her whole life. I don't understand the need to take away someone else's happiness or the need to diminish another person. Live your own life to the best of your ability and stop judging others. The side effect will be that you find yourself happier.



I totally agree with you! Apparently this woman's gender identity is being threatened because she defines and identifies being a woman with being a wife and a mother and women who don't are apparently threatening to her limited views, whether trans or not probably. She seems like the type of woman who would turn her nose up at a natural born woman that didn't choose to define herself as a wife or mother the way she did.


----------



## jun3machina

Did c have sex reassignment surgery? I havnt fully followed this, but despite my views of her/him doing this as slightly skewed and disingenuous (because I think this family is entirely f**Ed) I'm curious if she's just dressing as a woman with breast implants or if 'she's' completely changed.


----------



## Jayne1

jun3machina said:


> Did c have sex reassignment surgery? I havnt fully followed this, but despite my views of her/him doing this as slightly skewed and disingenuous (because I think this family is entirely f**Ed) I'm curious if she's just dressing as a woman with breast implants or if 'she's' completely changed.



Don't think so -- no.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

There is a lot that goes into gender reassignment surgery from the info I've read on Google. I've seen conflicting reports on wether Caitlynn has gone through that surgery or not. She might not want to share that yet. 

There is probably someone here who could better shed light on this and has better info than me.


----------



## exotikittenx

queen said:


> Because someone does not see this just as you does not make them transphobic.



I never said that they were transphobic because they did not agree with me. Not sure where you even came up with that.  I am commenting on the nature of the comments.  



Jikena said:


> Agree with you. Too bad saying what I want about those comments would result in my ban. :greengrin:



Haha, Same here! 



Lejic said:


> Honestly it seems just narrow minded in general. I have zero feelings towards C and have no transgender friends so "no dog in the fight" so to speak, however the original poster sounds like someone who would judge other women very harshly too. What if a woman had to have a hysterectomy due to an illness at a young age and did not adopt -- are they not a woman now? Not everybody has to suffer period pains to be a woman, not have kids.
> 
> I am not at ALL saying C is a great person or whatever but that woman that wrote the comment just sounds spiteful towards anyone unlike herself at all. Honestly reminds me of old women who tut at young women and judge them for trivial things like "kissing boys" or "not married still and she's 25 already."



Yes, agreed! Good comparisons. 



mistikat said:


> How is my comment an attack? When someone says Caitlyn needs to walk the walk, I don't know what that means. And the poster who mentioned it hasn't explained it, either.
> 
> And I'll say it again, as I've posted something similar in this thread before - she doesn't need your approval or mine or anyone else's to live as a woman. It's her choice.



I, too, find it strange that people take such a stake in how others live their lives.


----------



## shiny_things

basicandorganic said:


> Good post. I, for one, don't believe being a woman is a feeling or an identity. There is nothing in me that makes me "feel" like I'm a woman. I just am. It's a descriptive word. I can't relate to people saying it's a feeling at all. To me, it's like saying that I "feel" chinese, no I just am, just like I am a woman. These aren't feelings, they are states.



But if you looked in the mirror and saw a man staring back at you, would you suddenly be a man?

Edit: oops, sorry. Didn't see the warning.


----------



## lizmil

I didn't readthat person who wrote the list of "woman qualities" as giving requirements but rather as examples.  The list was neither definitive nor exhaustive.  

All the huff about well if CJ didn't have a period etc she's not a womam misses the person's point. 

She (Jenner) is what she is, others are what they are. 

 It does seem that a lot of it comes down to the "shared public bathroom/lockeroom" problem. There, I see why people get upset.  They are less worried about the transgender person and more worried about safety and privacy issues.

I don't see remodelling every public restroom in the country as a feasable way around it either.


----------



## Docjeun

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'd like for C Jenner to tell us in her own words what it's like to be a woman....


Love this!!


----------



## Docjeun

QueenLouis said:


> Here's how it hurts me potentially. I am acquainted with one trans woman. A friend of a friend who is a very active tweeter, and transitioning from male to female quite a ways into their adulthood. The person is a very vocal trans advocate. I really gave no thought to the topic until I became acquainted with this person.
> 
> Much of what this person tweets & retweets are angry posts against women who were born women. This person has no problem organizing events that exclude men, but has no tolerance for women who want to gather with only natural-born women. This person is still attracted to and dates women, despite having a large bone to pick with natural-born women.
> 
> This person insists they ARE a woman, and that they are uncomfortable using a men's bathroom.
> 
> Well sorry, here's someone with the strength of a man, still attracted to women, yet very angry at women. I'm uncomfortable using a bathroom with him. But I'm repeatedly told that my feelings don't matter, only his feelings matter. And God forbid I offend him in any way. All I see in this person is a selfish man who doesn't give a damn about natural-born women. And who is a total hypocrite by excluding men, yet vitriolic against women who want to have events/places that are for natural-born women only.
> 
> This person's advocacy has had the opposite effect on me as his-to-her intent was.
> 
> So basically, I get the "point" of the article too. You don't have to experience all of those things to be a woman. There are as many ways to feel like a woman as there are women in the world. But if you're not one, how do you know what it feels like??? That's like me saying, I feel more black than caucasian. How on earth would I know??? People lost their sh!t when the white woman working for the NAACP was passing as a black woman.
> 
> I'm also a bit offended that they seem to be solidifying stereotypical gender roles by saying these things that they want & feel can ONLY exist in a woman. You can be whoever you want to be in any body you have.
> 
> By all means, dress however you want to dress, wear make-up, have plastic surgery. Do it all with my blessings and my belief that you should be able to live however you want free from discrimination. But you are not a woman. You are a man who has had a bunch of cosmetic surgery & hormonal manipulation.
> 
> However, a man demanding access to women's bathrooms & locker rooms is a violation on me. My whole life, and everywhere I've been in the world, shared bathrooms are designated by sex. If sex & gender are not the same things, and people claim that bathrooms should be used based on "gender", the same people argue that there are many more than 2 genders. So if bathrooms are organized by gender, start segregating them based on the wide variety of gender identities there are. (Better yet, no shared bathrooms or locker rooms at all)


Very good!


----------



## Docjeun

I'm amazed at how many people here misunderstood what the original poster was trying to say.  She didn't mean you had to experience all these things to be a woman, I can totally see where she was coming from and completely agree with her, full stop!


----------



## Docjeun

BTW, I am enjoying the conversation.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mistikat said:


> Walk what walk?? You've said she's shallow. Well, so are tons of cisgender women. She is living as she pleases, which is her right to do.



She's also doing it while in the public eye, which is our right to call it the way we see it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> No need to attack one another over this issue.  Jenner is becoming wealthier by the day on this turn of events.  Anyone who has lived as a competitive male and been very successful at it can fight their own battle.  Caitlyn has been lavished with attention and her right's protected.  No problem there but others also have a right to their opinion on the topic.  If she did not want comments she should have not made a public declaration.  Most of us have to take our criticism without protection.  If you do it, anything, it's ok for someone who saw it to comment on it.  Not always polite but it will happen just the same.  I respect she is choosing to live her life as a woman.  That does not make her one.



+1



queen said:


> Because someone does not see this just as you does not make them transphobic.



Good luck trying to convince others of that though. It's exhausting. It's as though people aren't allowed a difference of opinion.



Jikena said:


> Agree with you. Too bad saying what I want about those comments would result in my ban. :greengrin:



Yep, mine too except for different reasons. Luckily I saw the moderator's warning in time....



basicandorganic said:


> Good post. I, for one, don't believe being a woman is a feeling or an identity. There is nothing in me that makes me "feel" like I'm a woman. I just am. It's a descriptive word. I can't relate to people saying it's a feeling at all. To me, it's like saying that I "feel" chinese, no I just am, just like I am a woman. These aren't feelings, they are states.



+1



Jayne1 said:


> You mean like taking the Gender pay gap?




Yep, just for starters! 




Trulyadiva said:


> I'm amazed at how many people here misunderstood what the original poster was trying to say.  She didn't mean you had to experience all these things to be a woman, I can totally see where she was coming from and completely agree with her, full stop!



Ditto. It boils down to everyone's perception. 
I'm sure CJenner never worried as a young child about starting her period while sitting in class in middle school. 
I'm sure CJenner never worried about getting pregnant OR not being able to get pregnant.
I'm sure CJenner never worried about her drink being spiked with roofies or her safety while walking alone to her car after dark.
I'm sure CJenner never dealt with sexual harassment at her work.
I'm sure CJenner never worried about having to remember to take her birth control pills.
I'm sure CJenner never had to worry about developing breast/ovarian/cervical cancers.
I'm sure CJenner never worried about when being outspoken, being thought of as a b*tch instead of a leader.

Thinks she's one of us? I digress.

Shall I continue?


----------



## nycmom

Coach Lover Too said:


> Ditto. It boils down to everyone's perception.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried as a young child about starting her period while sitting in class in middle school.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about getting pregnant OR not being able to get pregnant.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about her drink being spiked with roofies or her safety while walking alone to her car after dark.
> I'm sure CJenner never dealt with sexual harassment at her work.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about having to remember to take her birth control pills.
> I'm sure CJenner never had to worry about developing breast/ovarian/cervical cancers.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about when being outspoken, being thought of as a b*tch instead of a leader.
> 
> Thinks she's one of us? I digress.
> 
> Shall I continue?



I think you are absolutely right, it's all about perception, because if you asked me what it means to be a woman I don't think any of the above would be included in my top ten list. So it seems it's really quite personal and subjective?

And to try to stay on topic, my guess is if you were able to ask CJ her definition would be different as well!


----------



## tweegy

StopHammertime said:


> LOL. Everyone is looking to be offended these days. This thread is a fantastic example. Literally both sides, everybody.



Right! It's exhausting.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

nycmom said:


> I think you are absolutely right, it's all about perception, because if you asked me what it means to be a woman I don't think any of the above would be included in my top ten list. So it seems it's really quite personal and subjective?
> 
> *And to try to stay on topic, my guess is if you were able to ask CJ her definition would be different as well!*



That's why I stated yesterday that I'd be curious to see what her definition is. 
My guess would be trying to decide what dress to wear and what color of polish to go with it. At least that's all I've seen so far.


----------



## ByeKitty

I haven't had time to read carefully through the thread but I will say this: the reason people cannot seem to agree is because they have different definitions of womanhood. I totally see how some might think Caitlyn will never be a woman - and biologically, that's correct. But at the same time, that disregards the power of human  identity. It also disregards the idea that gender is not some binary thing with nothing in between. We know very little about what transgenderness essentially is, and what causes it. Maybe it stems from a _mental_ disorder, but it could just as well be considered a _physical_ abnormality, where the brains don't match the genitals. Whatever causes it, and whatever your definition of womanhood is - Live and let live, I say.



lizmil said:


> I didn't readthat person who wrote the list of "woman qualities" as giving requirements but rather as examples.  The list was neither definitive nor exhaustive.
> 
> All the huff about well if CJ didn't have a period etc she's not a womam misses the person's point.
> 
> She (Jenner) is what she is, others are what they are.
> 
> It does seem that a lot of it comes down to the "shared public bathroom/lockeroom" problem. There, I see why people get upset.  They are less worried about the transgender person and more worried about safety and privacy issues.
> 
> I don't see remodelling every public restroom in the country as a feasable way around it either.


I read somewhere last month that Belgium is going to install gender-neutral toilets in some public spaces to accommodate people who are not clearly on one side of the gender spectrum 



Coach Lover Too said:


> Ditto. It boils down to everyone's perception.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried as a young child about starting her period while sitting in class in middle school.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about getting pregnant OR not being able to get pregnant.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about her drink being spiked with roofies or her safety while walking alone to her car after dark.
> I'm sure CJenner never dealt with sexual harassment at her work.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about having to remember to take her birth control pills.
> I'm sure CJenner never had to worry about developing breast/ovarian/cervical cancers.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about when being outspoken, being thought of as a b*tch instead of a leader.
> 
> Thinks she's one of us? I digress.
> 
> Shall I continue?



Seems like my experience as a woman is nowhere near as negative and filled with fear as yours. For me, the worst part of it is how some men immediately make assumptions about you being some type of motherly, not-super-bright, soft-boiled egg type of persona. It's up to me to prove them wrong with my actions and continue on with my life.

Caitlyn now faces the same problem, basically. She has to prove herself as a woman, an issue I think all women face to an extent.


----------



## queen

Unlike some others I have no personal interest in Jenner transitioning her lifestyle to that of a woman.  My only problem with the issue is the declaration that she is a woman.  We have some things in life that are our compasses for life.  Something to give us direction.  For me, notice I said for me, being assigned a sex at birth is one of those.  There are scientific or biological markers for that.  I know that those are well known to readers here.  The X, Y chromozone thing.  Whether one has a vagina or penis, the testicles, notably obvious things.  Some are born with both.  I know of such a girl.  Waiting 65 years, fathering children with three women, competing and winning as a man in the Olympics, having male genitalia, those are not things a woman has barring some sexual ambiguity at birth.  If Jenner or anyone decides to have surgery and change their style of dress and life to live as a woman is of no concern of mine.  Publicly declaring they are a woman does.  Because you can not be male gender for 65 years and then be female.  You can be trans gender.  There is a difference.  If I were a regular poster here and revealed something of my life I could not just change that without censure.  Were I to declare myself to be a Princess or the President of the USA all of a sudden it would be challenged.  I know of no one here disputing Jenner is a male who has decided to live her life as a woman.  Some of us do not feel she is actually a woman.  That does not make us an enemy to Jenner only wanting to live in reality.  One usually can not just wish and want and change what has been reality for 65 years.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> I haven't had time to read carefully through the thread but I will say this: the reason people cannot seem to agree is because they have different definitions of womanhood. I totally see how some might think Caitlyn will never be a woman - and biologically, that's correct. But at the same time, that disregards the power of human  identity. It also disregards the idea that gender is not some binary thing with nothing in between. We know very little about what transgenderness essentially is, and what causes it. Maybe it stems from a _mental_ disorder, but it could just as well be considered a _physical_ abnormality, where the brains don't match the genitals. Whatever causes it, and whatever your definition of womanhood is - Live and let live, I say.
> 
> 
> I read somewhere last month that Belgium is going to install gender-neutral toilets in some public spaces to accommodate people who are not clearly on one side of the gender spectrum
> 
> 
> 
> *Seems like my experience as a woman is nowhere near as negative and filled with fear as yours.* For me, the worst part of it is how some men immediately make assumptions about you being some type of motherly, not-super-bright, soft-boiled egg type of persona. It's up to me to prove them wrong with my actions and continue on with my life.
> 
> Caitlyn now faces the same problem, basically. She has to prove herself as a woman, an issue I think all women face to an extent.




Not negative, just realistic. Things that CJenner will NEVER be able to relate to that defines some of the differences between males/females.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

What others are failing to see is the reason why Caitlynn is being so public about her transformation is to show youth (experiencing the same thing) they are not alone. It's really tough and isolating to think you are the only one with your thoughts and feelings. If you read about growing up gay in a small town and that feeling of isolation, you may begin to understand the need to see someone like you. 

Kids are committing suicide over this and if she can save one child from taking their life, then Caitlynn has used her status for good. 

And it's not getting up in arms over what makes it doesn't make a woman. It's getting up in arms over people needing to always spew their judgement on how other people live their lives. You may not understand it but no one is asking you to. Just to let another person be happy and do what they want when it isn't hurting anyone else.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Not negative, just realistic. Things that CJenner will NEVER be able to relate to that defines some of the differences between males/females.


Haha I sometimes use that phrase "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist", but more jokingly. The things you have said weren't exactly positives, were they? Either way, when people ask me what I enjoy about being a woman it's a hard one to answer... Seems like men have it easier in many ways. But if being male was so ideal for everyone, I'm sure Caitlyn would have remained Bruce.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> Unlike some others I have no personal interest in Jenner transitioning her lifestyle to that of a woman.  My only problem with the issue is the declaration that she is a woman.  We have some things in life that are our compasses for life.  Something to give us direction.  For me, notice I said for me, being assigned a sex at birth is one of those.  There are scientific or biological markers for that.  I know that those are well known to readers here.  The X, Y chromozone thing.  Whether one has a vagina or penis, the testicles, notably obvious things.  Some are born with both.  I know of such a girl.  Waiting 65 years, fathering children with three women, competing and winning as a man in the Olympics, having male genitalia, those are not things a woman has barring some sexual ambiguity at birth.  If Jenner or anyone decides to have surgery and change their style of dress and life to live as a woman is of no concern of mine.  Publicly declaring they are a woman does.  Because you can not be male gender for 65 years and then be female.  You can be trans gender.  There is a difference.  If I were a regular poster here and revealed something of my life I could not just change that without censure.  Were I to declare myself to be a Princess or the President of the USA all of a sudden it would be challenged.  I know of no one here disputing Jenner is a male who has decided to live her life as a woman.  Some of us do not feel she is actually a woman.  That does not make us an enemy to Jenner only wanting to live in reality.  One usually can not just wish and want and change what has been reality for 65 years.



Well said. Just because CJenner says it, doesn't make it so. 
I too am all about *live and let live* however when it's made as public as this has been, it's only human nature to discuss and debate it with a degree of cynicism.
I've noticed Chaz Bono has been given tons of respect and support for his decision.
One appears trustworthy and open and one appears dishonest and superficial. 
Can't put the blame on the public for that.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Dallas_Girl said:


> What others are failing to see is the reason why Caitlynn is being so public about her transformation is to show youth (experiencing the same thing) they are not alone. It's really tough and isolating to think you are the only one with your thoughts and feelings. If you read about growing up gay in a small town and that feeling of isolation, you may begin to understand the need to see someone like you.
> 
> Kids are committing suicide over this and if she can save one child from taking their life, then Caitlynn has used her status for good.
> 
> And it's not getting up in arms over what makes it doesn't make a woman. It's getting up in arms over people needing to always spew their judgement on how other people live their lives. You may not understand it but no one is asking you to. Just to let another person be happy and do what they want when it isn't hurting anyone else.


Dallas Girl, I get what your saying but I think a lot of the censure Caitlyn has been getting is because the perception from the trans community is that she is doing exactly the opposite. She and others have spoken about wanting to be a role model and a voice for those that transgender but a lot of the criticism is that Caitlyn has lived a life of privilege and continues to live a life of privilege that protects her from the majority of the things that make life difficult or dangerous for this sector of society.

I think there is also a lot of confusion as well. I'm not the most au courant person on this thread so I welcome correction, but my understanding is that several things with Caitlyn don't seem to ring true for most transgender persons. These include:
1. The fact that as Bruce, he started hormone therapy years ago, having left his second wife and given up custody of his kids to do so. He then married Kris and started another family.
2. Her ambivalence about having surgery to have her body match her identity.
3. Things like the lack of voice change and a somewhat judgmental attitude towards the trans community and a lack of interest in what they suffer.

I'd welcome any additions/corrections to this post.


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well said. Just because CJenner says it, doesn't make it so.
> I too am all about *live and let live* however when it's made as public as this has been, it's only human nature to discuss and debate it with a degree of cynicism.
> I've noticed Chaz Bono has been given tons of respect and support for his decision.
> One appears trustworthy and open and one appears dishonest and superficial.
> Can't put the blame on the public for that.



It's obviously not the entire public that thinks that. I know I don't think Caitlyn is less sincere. More of a Kardashian - yes. But what do you expect after immersing and then being around that bunch for years  Bruce was just as much as a fame-ho. Didn't he leave his wife for someone more "Hollywood"? And wasn't he on all the milk cartons in America, and loving it?  Here's the difference between us: I don't believe Caitlyn is lying about her gender identity struggles, but I do believe Caitlyn loves the spotlight, as (s)he always has. One could take that for insincerity.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> Haha I sometimes use that phrase "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist", but more jokingly. The things you have said weren't exactly positives, were they? Either way, when people ask me what I enjoy about being a woman it's a hard one to answer... Seems like men have it easier in many ways.* But if being male was so ideal for everyone, I'm sure Caitlyn would have remained Bruce.*



Yes, but my point being, Bruce putting on a dress doesn't make him Caitlyn. Bruce may have felt feminine but by doing so doesn't make him female. He may think that he can relate to being female, but in all honesty, that couldn't be further from the truth. At this point, (and maybe somewhere down the road I'll change my mind) all I see is Caitlyn playing dress up.
On the other hand, when I saw Chaz Bono on the show last night, I saw total male and male only. I cannot picture Chaz as female and I watched him grow up.

The difference is in the person and the way they handle themselves. I didn't care for Bruce and I don't care for Caitlyn. It has nothing to do with the gender and everything to do with their character, or lack of.


----------



## queen

Dallas_Girl said:


> What others are failing to see is the reason why Caitlynn is being so public about her transformation is to show youth (experiencing the same thing) they are not alone. It's really tough and isolating to think you are the only one with your thoughts and feelings. If you read about growing up gay in a small town and that feeling of isolation, you may begin to understand the need to see someone like you.
> 
> Kids are committing suicide over this and if she can save one child from taking their life, then Caitlynn has used her status for good.
> 
> And it's not getting up in arms over what makes it doesn't make a woman. It's getting up in arms over people needing to always spew their judgement on how other people live their lives. You may not understand it but no one is asking you to. Just to let another person be happy and do what they want when it isn't hurting anyone else.


Seriously, you think Jenner's motives are to save youth?  I do not agree.  I have heard her say that but her actions have spoken louder to me.  She has even been challenged on this subject by fellow transgendered people.  Told most do not have her privilege.  Doing that would require more one on one with those youth rather than meeting with fellow older transgendered for sleep overs.
I believe there are those with those pure motives.  Caitlyn Jenner not so much.  But I am going on what is presented on her show.  She walks in the room and tries to moderate the meeting.  All seems scripted for her tv success.  I heard her say on tv that she did not want to die without pursing this lifestyle.  Those are my words as I can not recall those she did use.


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> Seriously, you think Jenner's motives are to save youth?  I do not agree.  I have heard her say that but her actions have spoken louder to me.  She has even been challenged on this subject by fellow transgendered people.  Told most do not have her privilege.  Doing that would require more one on one with those youth rather than meeting with fellow older transgendered for sleep overs.
> I believe there are those with those pure motives.  Caitlyn Jenner not so much.  But I am going on what is presented on her show.  She walks in the room and tries to moderate the meeting.  All seems scripted for her tv success.  I heard her say on tv that she did not want to die without pursing this lifestyle.  Those are my words as I can not recall those she did use.



But who are you to decide what Caitlyn should and shouldn't do at this stage in transition?


----------



## tweegy

Dallas_Girl said:


> What others are failing to see is the reason why Caitlynn is being so public about her transformation is to show youth (experiencing the same thing) they are not alone. It's really tough and isolating to think you are the only one with your thoughts and feelings. If you read about growing up gay in a small town and that feeling of isolation, you may begin to understand the need to see someone like you.
> 
> Kids are committing suicide over this and if she can save one child from taking their life, then Caitlynn has used her status for good.
> 
> And it's not getting up in arms over what makes it doesn't make a woman. It's getting up in arms over people needing to always spew their judgement on how other people live their lives. You may not understand it but no one is asking you to. Just to let another person be happy and do what they want when it isn't hurting anyone else.



You know, I would like for her to show that. I was really hoping she would be a good muse for people going thru the same thing to look up to and gain from. And I still think she's somewhat brave and she has done some good for others going thru this But lets be frank, she has turned this into a circus ala Kardashian style. She's only here for her stah! 

I've seen bits of the show and I'm sorry but the trans community can do with a better example IMO.  I have not seen a part where when Caitlyn isn't crying, she's gabbing about 'oh so this is why girls wear bras'. She just doesn't seem like a nice person to me. Frankly she seems angry still. 

I don't post in here cause its such a mindfield. And maybe I've missed the parts of the show and an interview where she actually has something of substance to say of her experience to enlighten others other than saying teasers of things to come, I am yet to see it. ... But she slays in her outfits doe..

She may not need the validation from anyone, but folks are entitled to their opinions. 

*Exits thread left*


----------



## queen

ByeKitty said:


> But who are you to decide what Caitlyn should and shouldn't do at this stage in transition?


I am no one to do that.  I am like you some random on an internet discussion  about Jenner.  I have no delusions that my opinions mean a thing to Jenner, yourself or anyone else.


----------



## exotikittenx

Coach Lover Too said:


> +1
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck trying to convince others of that though. It's exhausting. It's as though people aren't allowed a difference of opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, mine too except for different reasons. Luckily I saw the moderator's warning in time....
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just for starters!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto. It boils down to everyone's perception.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried as a young child about starting her period while sitting in class in middle school.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about getting pregnant OR not being able to get pregnant.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about her drink being spiked with roofies or her safety while walking alone to her car after dark.
> I'm sure CJenner never dealt with sexual harassment at her work.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about having to remember to take her birth control pills.
> I'm sure CJenner never had to worry about developing breast/ovarian/cervical cancers.
> I'm sure CJenner never worried about when being outspoken, being thought of as a b*tch instead of a leader.
> 
> Thinks she's one of us? I digress.
> 
> Shall I continue?



My worries and mistreatment from others are not what define me as a woman, as they do you.   My inner feelings, nature, and connection to my body do more. 

So you answer your own question in that it boils down to perception.  So if CJ says, according to her perception, she is a woman, then who are you to stand in the way of that or deny her own perception of herself, which she knows infinitely better than you? You are attempting to deny her own rights of perception of her existence, and first and foremost, CJ has the undeniable rights to her existence. Her being a woman will not threaten your womanhood. You are still the same person, the same woman.


----------



## GaitreeS

QueenLouis said:


> Here's how it hurts me potentially. I am acquainted with one trans woman. A friend of a friend who is a very active tweeter, and transitioning from male to female quite a ways into their adulthood. The person is a very vocal trans advocate. I really gave no thought to the topic until I became acquainted with this person.
> 
> Much of what this person tweets & retweets are angry posts against women who were born women. This person has no problem organizing events that exclude men, but has no tolerance for women who want to gather with only natural-born women. This person is still attracted to and dates women, despite having a large bone to pick with natural-born women.
> 
> This person insists they ARE a woman, and that they are uncomfortable using a men's bathroom.
> 
> Well sorry, here's someone with the strength of a man, still attracted to women, yet very angry at women. I'm uncomfortable using a bathroom with him. But I'm repeatedly told that my feelings don't matter, only his feelings matter. And God forbid I offend him in any way. All I see in this person is a selfish man who doesn't give a damn about natural-born women. And who is a total hypocrite by excluding men, yet vitriolic against women who want to have events/places that are for natural-born women only.
> 
> This person's advocacy has had the opposite effect on me as his-to-her intent was.
> 
> So basically, I get the "point" of the article too. You don't have to experience all of those things to be a woman. There are as many ways to feel like a woman as there are women in the world. But if you're not one, how do you know what it feels like??? That's like me saying, I feel more black than caucasian. How on earth would I know??? People lost their sh!t when the white woman working for the NAACP was passing as a black woman.
> 
> I'm also a bit offended that they seem to be solidifying stereotypical gender roles by saying these things that they want & feel can ONLY exist in a woman. You can be whoever you want to be in any body you have.
> 
> By all means, dress however you want to dress, wear make-up, have plastic surgery. Do it all with my blessings and my belief that you should be able to live however you want free from discrimination. But you are not a woman. You are a man who has had a bunch of cosmetic surgery & hormonal manipulation.
> 
> However, a man demanding access to women's bathrooms & locker rooms is a violation on me. My whole life, and everywhere I've been in the world, shared bathrooms are designated by sex. If sex & gender are not the same things, and people claim that bathrooms should be used based on "gender", the same people argue that there are many more than 2 genders. So if bathrooms are organized by gender, start segregating them based on the wide variety of gender identities there are. (Better yet, no shared bathrooms or locker rooms at all)


I love you lol

I must tolerate you and by tolerate you really mean I should accept you, and if I don't you're offended. My feelings become null and void.  I can't deal.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

exotikittenx said:


> My worries and mistreatment from others are not what define me as a woman, as they do you.   My inner feelings, nature, and connection to my body do more.
> 
> So you answer your own question in that it boils down to perception.  So if CJ says, according to her perception, she is a woman, then who are you to stand in the way of that or deny her own perception of herself, which she knows infinitely better than you? You are attempting to deny her own rights of perception of her existence, and first and foremost, CJ has the undeniable rights to her existence. Her being a woman will not threaten your womanhood. You are still the same person, the same woman.



I can say I feel like a multi-millionaire, but that doesn't make it so. All that does is make me out to be someone in *denial*. Caitlyn can say she feels like a female but saying she *feels like one* and that *she's actually one* is a *huge* difference.

I'm sure CJ doesn't care what anyone thinks as long as the paychecks keep rolling in. She should take lessons from Chaz Bono and live her life the way he does. Doing good for others and not expecting anything ($$$$$) in return. 

Just curious if anyone else watched the show last night?


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Wow so she is transitioning and now she needs to speak for the entire transgender community right away and fit this mold. She isn't allowed to be human and stumble as she adjust to this new life. She automatically has to be this perfect role model but not take too much of the spotlight. And because she has privilege that makes her plight and feelings less than others. 

That's like saying a black person who grew up wealthy is less of a black man because they didn't grow up in the projects. 

Maybe just stop with the judgement and start acceptance and just listening to how these individuals feel. The way some are talking about them, it appears they are viewed as less than human.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Dallas_Girl said:


> Wow so she is transitioning and now she needs to speak for the entire transgender community right away and fit this mold. She isn't allowed to be human and stumble as she adjust to this new life. She automatically has to be this perfect role model but not take too much of the spotlight. And because she has privilege that makes her plight and feelings less than others.
> 
> That's like saying a black person who grew up wealthy is less of a black man because they didn't grow up in the projects.
> 
> Maybe just stop with the judgement and start acceptance and just listening to how these individuals feel. The way some are talking about them, it appears they are viewed as less than human.


Uhmmm&#8230;no it's not. Are you saying all black people are poor/from the projects then? If I've interpreted this wrong then please correct me, because this read like a highly offensive statement i.e. Kelly Osbourne, "No Mexicans to clean your toilets" level.


----------



## exotikittenx

Coach Lover Too said:


> I can say I feel like a multi-millionaire, but that doesn't make it so. All that does is make me out to be someone in *denial*. Caitlyn can say she feels like a female but saying she *feels like one* and that *she's actually one* is a *huge* difference.
> 
> I'm sure CJ doesn't care what anyone thinks as long as the paychecks keep rolling in. She should take lessons from Chaz Bono and live her life the way he does. Doing good for others and not expecting anything ($$$$$) in return.
> 
> Just curious if anyone else watched the show last night?



Material wealth and inner being are not equivalents or even comparable.  So wait, if CJ starts acting like Chaz, then you will accept her as a woman? It is also so funny that you think your acceptance of someone makes it truth.  




Dallas_Girl said:


> Wow so she is transitioning and now she needs to speak for the entire transgender community right away and fit this mold. She isn't allowed to be human and stumble as she adjust to this new life. She automatically has to be this perfect role model but not take too much of the spotlight. And because she has privilege that makes her plight and feelings less than others.
> 
> That's like saying a black person who grew up wealthy is less of a black man because they didn't grow up in the projects.
> 
> Maybe just stop with the judgement and start acceptance and just listening to how these individuals feel. The way some are talking about them, it appears they are viewed as less than human.




Good point about treating others as human.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Thingofbeauty said:


> Uhmmmno it's not. Are you saying all black people are poor/from the projects then? If I've interpreted this wrong then please correct me, because this read like a highly offensive statement i.e. Kelly Osbourne, "No Mexicans to clean your toilets" level.




I was making a statement on stereotypes. No I'm not saying all blacks people are from the projects. Not sure where you got that from. I was saying a black man is not less of a black man because he has what is deemed as privilege. 

Do I need to make it known I'm a white woman marries to a black man.


----------



## exotikittenx

Yeah... She wasn't saying that herself. It is clearly a comment that is criticizing the stereotypes of others.


----------



## QueenLouis

I smell another "off-topic" warning.

Based on some of these comments, I actually think it would make an incredibly interesting thread in another subforum about what each of us feel defines us as a woman.


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> But who are you to decide what Caitlyn should and shouldn't do at this stage in transition?



No one really cares except that Cait herself said people consider her to be the trans communitys activist-in-chief.  Her reality show supposedly has a message.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Dallas_Girl said:


> I was making a statement on stereotypes. No I'm not saying all blacks people are from the projects. Not sure where you got that from. I was saying a black man is not less of a black man because he has what is deemed as privilege.
> 
> Do I need to make it known I'm a white woman marries to a black man.


I don't think who you are married to has any bearing on the conversation. I told you what your comment read like to me and asked if you could explain what you meant, which I thought was a mature and fair response, rather than me assuming my interpretation was correct and responding based on that.

You will see that in all my posts on this subject I've tried to be respectful of people's opinions and make sure I understand what they are trying to communicate. 

Thank you for explaining.


----------



## tweegy

QueenLouis said:


> I smell another "off-topic" warning.
> 
> Based on some of these comments, I actually think it would make an incredibly interesting thread in another subforum about what each of us feel defines us as a woman.



Oh, LOL! You like living on the edge huh?! 

It wouldn't make it past the first page before someone is banned, 2 thread warnings and then it's closed.

Place your bets folks.


----------



## queen

Well, one man's fruit is another man's candy.  People see things differently.  Lucky for Jenner that so many are willing to defend her so firmly.  I hope that those are equally willing to do so for the less visible and less attractive and who don't have the wealth to dress and be so well attended.  I commend those with such pure motives.  

If memory serves me she stated she much preferred the quiet life in an area other than where she lives.  She has stated how will I get this or that place because of the photographers waiting to get the cash shot.  She could have that private life helping other trans gendered if she so desired.  She does not she is using the trans gender to make money and get attention.  She is also causing her family some heart burn in the process.

But I do not have a thing in this and I am weary of the discourse so I bow out.  Have at it.  It is just not worth the effort for me as I have no stake in this.  Please continue to champion this cause for all trans gender not just Caitlyn if you feel it is worthy.  I do not see her being mistreated but I have seen others.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Oh, LOL! You like living on the edge huh?!
> 
> It wouldn't make it past the first page before someone is banned, 2 thread warnings and then it's closed.
> 
> Place your bets folks.



Yea, gawd knows I've gotten my share of warnings. amiright JetSetGo! ??!?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

exotikittenx said:


> Material wealth and inner being are not equivalents or even comparable. * So wait, if CJ starts acting like Chaz, then you will accept her as a woman?* It is also so funny that you think your acceptance of someone makes it truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point about treating others as human.



CJenner appears to be about as fake and insincere to me as the rest of the family. Not sure what part of that you don't understand.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Coach Lover Too said:


> CJenner appears to be about as fake and insincere to me as the rest of the family. Not sure what part of that you don't understand.


She honestly seems that way to me. This is a person who left his second wife and family to transition and then just changed his mind and started a whole new family? I just don't understand at all. All accounts I've read of being transgender is that living in this wrong body is torture. Caitlyn doesn't seem to have been tortured by being in Bruce's body at all and from all accounts it seems like she is content to remain as is. It doesn't square with the other accounts I've been exposed to.


----------



## anitalilac

coach lover too said:


> cjenner appears to be about as fake and insincere to me as the rest of the family. Not sure what part of that you don't understand.



+ 1


----------



## exotikittenx

queen said:


> Well, one man's fruit is another man's candy.  People see things differently.  Lucky for Jenner that so many are willing to defend her so firmly.  I hope that those are equally willing to do so for the less visible and less attractive and who don't have the wealth to dress and be so well attended.  I commend those with such pure motives.
> 
> If memory serves me she stated she much preferred the quiet life in an area other than where she lives.  She has stated how will I get this or that place because of the photographers waiting to get the cash shot.  She could have that private life helping other trans gendered if she so desired.  She does not she is using the trans gender to make money and get attention.  She is also causing her family some heart burn in the process.
> 
> But I do not have a thing in this and I am weary of the discourse so I bow out.  Have at it.  It is just not worth the effort for me as I have no stake in this.  Please continue to champion this cause for all trans gender not just Caitlyn if you feel it is worthy.  I do not see her being mistreated but I have seen others.



Well, if it makes you feel better, I am currently involved in plenty of lobbying and political activism for the trans and LGBTQ community.  My motives are pure. I am not commenting on whether Jenner is a good person.  What bothers me are the transphobic comments and ignorance that I see, that had they been said about something religious or racist, would probably be removed from the thread.  It is a double standard.  I am glad people can discuss it, though, because discussion leads to compassion and understanding, at least I hope.

I am also trying to stay on topic of Caitlyn Jenner, but an integral part of her at the moment is the fact that she is a trans* woman, and it just goes hand in hand with her discussion.  It seems that once it begins to veer into something intellectual, about concepts and ideas that are clearly related to Caitlyn Jenner (rather than superficial nitpicking), that is suddenly not okay and off topic? Correct me if I am misunderstanding, please.


----------



## exotikittenx

Thingofbeauty said:


> She honestly seems that way to me. This is a person who left his second wife and family to transition and then just changed his mind and started a whole new family? I just don't understand at all. All accounts I've read of being transgender is that living in this wrong body is torture. Caitlyn doesn't seem to have been tortured by being in Bruce's body at all and from all accounts it seems like she is content to remain as is. It doesn't square with the other accounts I've been exposed to.



If you go back and look at her photos through the years, there has been a LOT of plastic surgery.  Only a person uncomfortable in their skin would do that to themselves.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

exotikittenx said:


> If you go back and look at her photos through the years, there has been a LOT of plastic surgery.  Only a person uncomfortable in their skin would do that to themselves.


Oh my God! So Kylie, Kim, Khloe, Kris, Nicole Kidman, Jocelyn Wildenstein, Kenny Rogers, Barry Manilow, Joan Rivers et al are transgender too. WOW! It's amazing how well they've hidden this over the years shrugs:

I'm going to bow out of this thread for now


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Thingofbeauty said:


> Oh my God! So Kylie, Kim, Khloe, Kris, Nicole Kidman, Jocelyn Wildenstein, Kenny Rogers, Barry Manilow, Joan Rivers et al are transgender too. WOW! It's amazing how well they've hidden this over the years shrugs:
> 
> I'm going to bow out of this thread for now



I think I should probably go with you....


----------



## tweegy

Thingofbeauty said:


> Oh my God! So Kylie, Kim, Khloe, Kris, Nicole Kidman, Jocelyn Wildenstein, Kenny Rogers, Barry Manilow, Joan Rivers et al are transgender too. WOW! It's amazing how well they've hidden this over the years shrugs:
> 
> I'm going to bow out of this thread for now



You didn't know??!


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Thingofbeauty said:


> Oh my God! So Kylie, Kim, Khloe, Kris, Nicole Kidman, Jocelyn Wildenstein, Kenny Rogers, Barry Manilow, Joan Rivers et al are transgender too. WOW! It's amazing how well they've hidden this over the years shrugs:
> 
> I'm going to bow out of this thread for now



People are leaping to some giant conclusions. No one said people who get plastic surgery are then transgender. It was said that they are uncomfortable in their own skin. That doesn't mean they feel they should be the opposite gender. For the most part, plastic surgery is trying to fix a "flaw" you can't look past (unless it's medically necessary).

I also see a lot of assumptions of what Bruce felt during the 80's and the fact he didn't transition then. None of us know what he was thinking at the time. If you really listen to what he says and what others have said, this has been since her childhood, i.e. pre-Kardashian. And maybe her way of helping others isn't your ideal way but maybe she is trying. It's only been a few months since the Vanity Fair article and cover revealed Caitlynn to the public. Give her some time to breath and adjust to this new life.


----------



## prettyprincess

Dallas_Girl said:


> I think you are missing the point. Gender/Sex isn't black and white, there are so many grey areas.
> 
> And Caitlynn Jenner wants to be referred to as she, it doesn't kill you to oblige. It doesn't harm you in any way to make her happy or any transgender individual for that matter.
> 
> I could go into a whole lot more about male and female roles being completely society and culturally driven. If you really look at the biogloical aspect, yes women can have babies. But wait not all woman can have babies (myself being one of them). Does that make me less of a woman. Please explain to me biologically what makes a woman a woman. And no I'm not talking about what society has brainwashed us with. I'm talking the deep biological aspects and brain waves that makes us different.



Other than "because he identifies as such," please explain to me how hes biologically a woman now, same as a natural woman.


----------



## CeeJay

Dallas_Girl said:


> People are leaping to some giant conclusions. No one said people who get plastic surgery are then transgender. It was said that they are uncomfortable in their own skin. That doesn't mean they feel they should be the opposite gender. For the most part, plastic surgery is trying to fix a "flaw" you can't look past (unless it's medically necessary).
> 
> I also see a lot of assumptions of what Bruce felt during the 80's and the fact he didn't transition then. None of us know what he was thinking at the time. If you really listen to what he says and what others have said, this has been since her childhood, i.e. pre-Kardashian. And maybe her way of helping others isn't your ideal way but maybe she is trying. It's only been a few months since the Vanity Fair article and cover revealed Caitlynn to the public. *Give her some time to breath and adjust to this new life*.



The problem is that the media won't let her and us!!  Just about every day, there is a picture/article online, in a magazine, new story .. you name it.  Just sayin' ..


----------



## nycmom

Dallas_Girl said:


> What others are failing to see is the reason why Caitlynn is being so public about her transformation is to show youth (experiencing the same thing) they are not alone. *It's really tough and isolating to think you are the only one with your thoughts and feelings. If you read about growing up gay in a small town and that feeling of isolation, you may begin to understand the need to see someone like you. *
> 
> *Kids are committing suicide over this and if she can save one child from taking their life, then Caitlynn has used her status for good. *
> 
> And it's not getting up in arms over what makes it doesn't make a woman. It's getting up in arms over people needing to always spew their judgement on how other people live their lives. *You may not understand it but no one is asking you to. Just to let another person be happy and do what they want when it isn't hurting anyone else.*



Yes, yes and yes...thank you! 



Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm sure CJ doesn't care what anyone thinks as long as the paychecks keep rolling in. She should take lessons from Chaz Bono and live her life the way he does. Doing good for others and not expecting anything ($$$$$) in return.



I like Chaz too but just fyi he has also participated in a variety of personal media projects, from _Dancing With The Stars_ to the documentaries _Becoming Chaz_ and _Being Chaz_ to his book _Transition_.


----------



## *spoiled*

oh God *Big Sean voice*


----------



## glamourous1098

prettyprincess said:


> Other than "because he identifies as such," please explain to me how hes biologically a woman now, same as a natural woman.



No one is arguing that she's biologically a woman now.


----------



## exotikittenx

Thingofbeauty said:


> Oh my God! So Kylie, Kim, Khloe, Kris, Nicole Kidman, Jocelyn Wildenstein, Kenny Rogers, Barry Manilow, Joan Rivers et al are transgender too. WOW! It's amazing how well they've hidden this over the years shrugs:
> 
> I'm going to bow out of this thread for now



Wow.  That is definitely NOT what I was saying.  Rather than bother trying any further for you, I will just say what a tellingly summative statement that you have chosen to leave us with.


----------



## lizmil

exotikittenx said:


> Well, if it makes you feel better, I am currently involved in plenty of lobbying and political activism for the trans and LGBTQ community.  My motives are pure. I am not commenting on whether Jenner is a good person.  What bothers me are the transphobic comments and ignorance that I see, that had they been said about something religious or racist, would probably be removed from the thread.  It is a double standard.  I am glad people can discuss it, though, because discussion leads to compassion and understanding, at least I hope.
> 
> I am also trying to stay on topic of Caitlyn Jenner, but an integral part of her at the moment is the fact that she is a trans* woman, and it just goes hand in hand with her discussion.  It seems that once it begins to veer into something intellectual, about concepts and ideas that are clearly related to Caitlyn Jenner (rather than superficial nitpicking), that is suddenly not okay and off topic? Correct me if I am misunderstanding, please.



Since you said you lobby in this area, I have what might be a stupid question.. why do people say transphobic and homophobic?  I though phobic was fear.  While someone may not like or approve of these, shall I say life styles, life choices, life states of being, where did the phobic part come in?

The terminology has always thrown me.      THX.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

exotikittenx said:


> Wow.  That is definitely NOT what I was saying.  Rather than bother trying any further for you, I will just say what a tellingly summative statement that you have chosen to leave us with.





I think this person is trolling and making huge leaps and twisting things. They did it to me too.


----------



## exotikittenx

lizmil said:


> Since you said you lobby in this area, I have what might be a stupid question.. why do people say transphobic and homophobic?  I though phobic was fear.  While someone may not like or approve of these, shall I say life styles, life choices, life states of being, where did the phobic part come in?
> 
> The terminology has always thrown me.      THX.



Not a stupid question! It is just how the word has changed through its etymology.  Phobia also means an aversion to something.  Hate can often stem from fear, too, and perhaps that is why.


----------



## lizmil

^ The wanna be English major me thanks you.


----------



## tweegy

I just saw piece of last nights epi with Khloe. She pretty much called her out. She did she seems pretty one sided. I will maintain, Kris is no saint but Caitlyn seems to like her drama and mud slinging too.


----------



## Jayne1

CeeJay said:


> The problem is that the media won't let her and us!!  Just about every day, there is a picture/article online, in a magazine, new story .. you name it.  Just sayin' ..



Yes, but it's also because she won't go away.

From the Diane interview, to the Vanity Fair article, to the award show, and now her reality show she's still filming and she's everywhere and she could go away if she wanted to no one can get to her home on the hill or she can travel in one of her SUVs with the tinted windows and driver, she can leave the state, hang with others.  But no.  She's doing the media thing.


----------



## Crystalina

Bruce is a cross dresser. That's it. He's just a transvestite. I have yet to see footage from his show where he thinks like a woman.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Crystalina said:


> Bruce is a cross dresser. That's it. He's just a transvestite. I have yet to see footage from his show where he thinks like a woman.



Seems to me you're trying to fit Caitlyn in one particular view of what it means to be a woman. Any woman, transgender or "cis" would rail against such a restrictive view.

As has been stated many times, cross dressing can be a pre-cursor for many (not all) into fully transitioning and identifying as a woman. Just because you choose not to see that (despite how many times the different umbrella terminologies etc have been posted) is on you, and no-one else.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I keep seeing "cis". What is that?


----------



## Jayne1

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I keep seeing "cis". What is that?



All women who aren't transgender.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Jayne1 said:


> All women who aren't transgender.



yeah, sorry I used it because it's been used lately on the forum as a term to differentiate.   I would normally just say, women.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Jayne1 said:


> All women who aren't transgender.




Thanks but why cis? Where did it come from?


----------



## ByeKitty

Crystalina said:


> Bruce is a cross dresser. That's it. He's just a transvestite. I have yet to see footage from his show where he thinks like a woman.



I find this offensive... as a woman. In what way does our thinking significantly differ from other people, namely male people? I'm so tired of people pretending that there is some massive innate difference in how the two sexes think. Exaggerating the differences does women a great disservice.


----------



## Jayne1

jimmyshoogirl said:


> Thanks but why cis? Where did it come from?



_On the side of_.  If a female grows up to identify as a woman, that person is cisgender, or a guy who is born male and identifies as male&#8230; when he grows up. I haven't used the word since University classes.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Jayne1 said:


> _On the side of_.  If a female grows up to identify as a woman, that person is cisgender, or a guy who is born male and identifies as male when he grows up. I haven't used the word since University classes.




Ok thanks. I think I will stick with woman lol


----------



## Sassys

Crystalina said:


> Bruce is a cross dresser. That's it. He's just a transvestite. I have yet to see footage from his show where he thinks like a woman.





prettyprincess said:


> I think its bc some people on here are trying to force feed this issue. Thats what annoys me personally. I couldn't care less how ppl lives their life, but you arent going to convince me that he's a she bc he suddenly identifies as such. Ive seen some comments in here saying he's is a woman same as if he had been born that way, sorry its just not the same.



So let me get this straight. My BFF had brest cancer and carries the cancer gene. She had to have her breast removed, her uterus removed, her tubes and ovaries removed. She got implants after her double mastecomy. So, does that mean she is no longer a woman??

Cross dresser don't get breast impants and have have femalization surgery or take hormones. Nore do they go through a year of required therepy in order to transition.


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> watching Kim tell Caitlyn what to do in regards to the vanity fair article and Kris' feelings...  Lordt she has A LOT of nerve, telling Caitlyn she needs to apologize via twitter **faints**  If Kris is feeling some kind of way, Kris needs to be there not her minion representatives
> 
> Caitlyn said "I'm not apologizing"...  nuff said!
> 
> What Kim needs to realize is that there is Kris' story, Caitlyn's story and somewhere in between in the truth.  I'm leaning towards all the truth being on Caitlyn's side of the story.



Exactly! Kim is just scared to DEATH, Caitlyn will revel some of her secrets. 

I wanted to smack Khloe. Don't bash my mother to the media by throwing her under the bus. Uh, it was Khloe a few months ago that told the media, her mother wanted her to get a nose job when she was 9 yrs old. So basically, Khloe told the world and the media her mother is a superfical mother is only cares about having cute kids. So that's okay, but Cait telling her story is not okay. GTFOH.
CAit is tired of the lies and they are scared out of their mind.

Khloe now is not consisered to troll sister and she is loving the attention Kris is now getting for her, so now she wants to be nice to Kris and be her pet.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> So let me get this straight. My BFF had brest cancer and carries the cancer gene. She had to have her breast removed, her uterus removed, her tubes and ovaries removed. She got implants after her double mastecomy. So, does that mean she is no longer a woman??
> 
> Cross dresser don't get breast impants and have have femalization surgery or take hormones. Nore do they go through a year of required therepy in order to transition.



Off topic, but I hope she's ok. 
 My mom is a 35+ years breast cancer survivor. My grandma wasn't so lucky.


----------



## Jayne1

I think some people see Cait as being all female and dressed to the nines, hair and makeup and pedicured... but still having a kind of masculine intensity, for lack of a better term. Not male mannerisms, more of a get-up-and-go kind of forcefulness. I've noticed that while watching the show. 

I've also noticed how womanly her trans friends are; they're all so feminine and lovely.

Maybe that's what people are seeing when they think she's a cross dresser?


----------



## Sassys

QueenLouis said:


> Here's how it hurts me potentially. I am acquainted with one trans woman. A friend of a friend who is a very active tweeter, and transitioning from male to female quite a ways into their adulthood. The person is a very vocal trans advocate. I really gave no thought to the topic until I became acquainted with this person.
> 
> Much of what this person tweets & retweets are angry posts against women who were born women. This person has no problem organizing events that exclude men, but has no tolerance for women who want to gather with only natural-born women. This person is still attracted to and dates women, despite having a large bone to pick with natural-born women.
> 
> This person insists they ARE a woman, and that they are uncomfortable using a men's bathroom.
> 
> Well sorry, here's someone with the strength of a man, still attracted to women, yet very angry at women. I'm uncomfortable using a bathroom with him. But I'm repeatedly told that my feelings don't matter, only his feelings matter. And God forbid I offend him in any way. All I see in this person is a selfish man who doesn't give a damn about natural-born women. And who is a total hypocrite by excluding men, yet vitriolic against women who want to have events/places that are for natural-born women only.
> 
> This person's advocacy has had the opposite effect on me as his-to-her intent was.
> 
> So basically, I get the "point" of the article too. You don't have to experience all of those things to be a woman. There are as many ways to feel like a woman as there are women in the world. But if you're not one, how do you know what it feels like??? That's like me saying, I feel more black than caucasian. How on earth would I know??? People lost their sh!t when the white woman working for the NAACP was passing as a black woman.
> 
> I'm also a bit offended that they seem to be solidifying stereotypical gender roles by saying these things that they want & feel can ONLY exist in a woman. You can be whoever you want to be in any body you have.
> 
> By all means, dress however you want to dress, wear make-up, have plastic surgery. Do it all with my blessings and my belief that you should be able to live however you want free from discrimination. But you are not a woman. You are a man who has had a bunch of cosmetic surgery & hormonal manipulation.
> 
> However, a man demanding access to women's bathrooms & locker rooms is a violation on me. My whole life, and everywhere I've been in the world, shared bathrooms are designated by sex. If sex & gender are not the same things, and people claim that bathrooms should be used based on "gender", the same people argue that there are many more than 2 genders. So if bathrooms are organized by gender, start segregating them based on the wide variety of gender identities there are. (Better yet, no shared bathrooms or locker rooms at all)



I have yet to be in a public restroom that didn't have stalls. Cusious, how is that a violation on you? You have no idea what is going on in the stall next to you. You should be doing your business in your stall and going about your business. You have never used the mens room, when the woman's line is outragiously long and no line for the men's and you have to seriously pee??? Men's room also have stalls.


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> I think some people see Cait as being all female and dressed to the nines, hair and makeup and pedicured... but still having a kind of masculine intensity, for lack of a better term. Not male mannerisms, more of a get-up-and-go kind of forcefulness. I've noticed that while watching the show.
> 
> I've also noticed how womanly her trans friends are; they're all so feminine and lovely.
> 
> Maybe that's what people are seeing when they think she's a cross dresser?



Her friends have transitioned years ago. She just transitioned a few months ago. Biological women are not born knowing how to apply makup, sit like a lady, do our hair, etc.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Has Caitlyn ever said I AM a woman? Just curious.


----------



## NicolesCloset

Jayne1 said:


> I think some people see Cait as being all female and dressed to the nines, hair and makeup and pedicured... but still having a kind of masculine intensity, for lack of a better term. Not male mannerisms, more of a get-up-and-go kind of forcefulness. I've noticed that while watching the show.
> 
> I've also noticed how womanly her trans friends are; they're all so feminine and lovely.
> 
> Maybe that's what people are seeing when they think she's a cross dresser?



I noticed that as well.  They are gorgeous.  I guess cait needs more time.


----------



## lizmil

^ "People" don't want to have their pants down with the opposite gender.


----------



## Sassys

CobaltBlu said:


> Has Caitlyn ever said I AM a woman? Just curious.



Yes. Since she came out with the truth, she has said I have always felt like a woman inside.


----------



## Sassys

lizmil said:


> ^ "People" don't want to have their pants down with the opposite gender.



You can be pulling your pants down right now at work every day, with a trangender coworker, with the door closed stall next to you. There is nothing you can do about it.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Sassys said:


> Yes. Since she came out with the truth, she has said I have always felt like a woman inside.



Thats not the same as saying I AM A WOMAN.

I am wondering if she said I AM A WOMAN (NOW).


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Sassys said:


> You can be pulling your pants down right now at work every day, with a trangender coworker, with in the door closed stall next to you.




Or at the mall


----------



## QueenLouis

lizmil said:


> ^ "People" don't want to have their pants down with the opposite gender.




That about sums it up. 

I try to avoid male doctors as much as possible too... starting as a child as soon as I knew the difference.


----------



## ByeKitty

CobaltBlu said:


> Thats not the same as saying I AM A WOMAN.
> 
> I am wondering if she said I AM A WOMAN (NOW).


She said in the Diane Sawyer interview: "For all intents and purposes, I am a woman"


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Dallas_Girl said:


> I think this person is trolling and making huge leaps and twisting things. They did it to me too.


So wait. You say something that I asked you to explain to me because I was interpreting it a particular way and that was trolling? And when you explained what you meant I acknowledged that I now understood what you were saying that thanked you for it. That is trolling? Are you for real?


----------



## Thingofbeauty

exotikittenx said:


> Wow.  That is definitely NOT what I was saying.  Rather than bother trying any further for you, I will just say what a tellingly summative statement that you have chosen to leave us with.


*"She honestly seems that way to me. This is a person who left his second wife and family to transition and then just changed his mind and started a whole new family? I just don't understand at all. All accounts I've read of being transgender is that living in this wrong body is torture. Caitlyn doesn't seem to have been tortured by being in Bruce's body at all and from all accounts it seems like she is content to remain as is. It doesn't square with the other accounts I've been exposed to."
*
THIS is the original comment I made about what was most confusing for ME to understand re Caitlyn's transition. YOU responded talking about his plastic surgery, a phenomenon that takes place amongst a vast number of non transgender people and really, did not address the issue I raised as being one I did not understand and did not square with what I understood was normal for transgender persons.

I would have welcomed some feedback and insight into this issue from anybody that could have done so respectfully.

I CHOSE to leave this thread because honestly, while I understand this is a topic people feel deeply, many of us are trying to learn more and understand. I have found the  thread has become less a sharing and respecting of ideas and descended into "this is not how you think or feel, I will TELL YOU how you think and feel".

I cannot speak for anyone else but I come here to share and learn but when I feel any thread I am participating in is taking an approach I don't feel comfortable in, I simply bow out. I do not come here to experience aggression and I will not stay here to cause aggression in anyone else. 

I wish everyone a good night.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

NicolesCloset said:


> I noticed that as well.  They are gorgeous.  I guess cait needs more time.


I think the most important thing in all of this is that it has certainly increased the number of people who are speaking about a very important issue. I don't know much about Caitlyn's struggle other than what she and her family has shared but it is hard for me to automatically see her as a hero when I think she was a terrible father. For me I wish instead of seeing her in heels and represented in the media as looking sensational, I wish she'd reach out to all her children and try to repair what was lost.


----------



## pukasonqo

Sassys said:


> Her friends have transitioned years ago. She just transitioned a few months ago. Biological women are not born knowing how to apply makup, sit like a lady, do our hair, etc.




i still have no idea in how to do any of those things!
hope your friend is recovering well, i just had a mastectomy a couple of weeks ago, i am lucky, it was a rare type of cancer and was caught on time
back to caitlyn, her issues as a parent are different to her gender issues, i think she is a dreadful parent, same as PMK and not because she is transgender but because she comes accross (before and after) as very self centered


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> Her friends have transitioned years ago. She just transitioned a few months ago. Biological women are not born knowing how to apply makup, sit like a lady, do our hair, etc.



No,no I said it wasn't male mannerisms, and she has people to do her hair and makeup and make the coffee

It's more of a male energy. Not really listening, being more of a problem solver. Not doing the talk thing we women do, when we're upset. She didn't want to talk, she wanted action. Don't be sad, let's go to a movie!

Grabbing her cisgender friend's hand and saying, "so what if it's strained and it hurts, you only need to use your thumb to grip the handle bar let's go!  We're off to ride our bikes."

I think some people who say she's just a cross dresser (not me) sense the masculine intensity, for lack of a better word and that's why they say that.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

pukasonqo said:


> i still have no idea in how to do any of those things!
> hope your friend is recovering well, i just had a mastectomy a couple of weeks ago, i am lucky, it was a rare type of cancer and was caught on time
> back to caitlyn, her issues as a parent are different to her gender issues, i think she is a dreadful parent, same as PMK and not because she is transgender but because she comes accross (before and after) as very self centered


A bit off topic but I'm sorry to hear about your mastectomy but I'm glad it was caught in time. I wish you as great a recovery as possible


----------



## Sassys

pukasonqo said:


> i still have no idea in how to do any of those things!
> hope your friend is recovering well, i just had a mastectomy a couple of weeks ago, i am lucky, it was a rare type of cancer and was caught on time
> back to caitlyn, her issues as a parent are different to her gender issues, i think she is a dreadful parent, same as PMK and not because she is transgender but because she comes accross (before and after) as very self centered



Thank you. I hope you are okay and a speedy recovery.


----------



## Jayne1

Thingofbeauty said:


> *"She honestly seems that way to me. This is a person who left his second wife and family to transition and then just changed his mind and started a whole new family? I just don't understand at all. All accounts I've read of being transgender is that living in this wrong body is torture. Caitlyn doesn't seem to have been tortured by being in Bruce's body at all and from all accounts it seems like she is content to remain as is. It doesn't square with the other accounts I've been exposed to."
> *
> THIS is the original comment I made about what was most confusing for ME to understand re Caitlyn's transition. YOU responded talking about his plastic surgery, a phenomenon that takes place amongst a vast number of non transgender people and really, did not address the issue I raised as being one I did not understand and did not square with what I understood was normal for transgender persons.
> 
> I would have welcomed some feedback and insight into this issue from anybody that could have done so respectfully.
> 
> I CHOSE to leave this thread because honestly, while I understand this is a topic people feel deeply, many of us are trying to learn more and understand. I have found the  thread has become less a sharing and respecting of ideas and descended into "this is not how you think or feel, I will TELL YOU how you think and feel".
> 
> I cannot speak for anyone else but I come here to share and learn but when I feel any thread I am participating in is taking an approach I don't feel comfortable in, I simply bow out. I do not come here to experience aggression and I will not stay here to cause aggression in anyone else.
> 
> I wish everyone a good night.



Just put the person who is getting too personal on ignore.  And stay.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Jayne1 said:


> Just put the person who is getting too personal on ignore.  And stay.


Oh yeah! I forgot there's that option! 

Thanks Jayne1. That was very kind of you.

Hugs.


----------



## pukasonqo

thank you Thingsofbeauty and Sassys! [emoji253]
and one day i will learn how to multiquote from an ipad!


----------



## Sassys

Thingofbeauty said:


> *"She honestly seems that way to me. This is a person who left his second wife and family to transition and then just changed his mind and started a whole new family? I just don't understand at all. All accounts I've read of being transgender is that living in this wrong body is torture. Caitlyn doesn't seem to have been tortured by being in Bruce's body at all and from all accounts it seems like she is content to remain as is. It doesn't square with the other accounts I've been exposed to."
> *
> THIS is the original comment I made about what was most confusing for ME to understand re Caitlyn's transition. YOU responded talking about his plastic surgery, a phenomenon that takes place amongst a vast number of non transgender people and really, did not address the issue I raised as being one I did not understand and did not square with what I understood was normal for transgender persons.
> 
> I would have welcomed some feedback and insight into this issue from anybody that could have done so respectfully.
> 
> I CHOSE to leave this thread because honestly, while I understand this is a topic people feel deeply, many of us are trying to learn more and understand. I have found the  thread has become less a sharing and respecting of ideas and descended into "this is not how you think or feel, I will TELL YOU how you think and feel".
> 
> I cannot speak for anyone else but I come here to share and learn but when I feel any thread I am participating in is taking an approach I don't feel comfortable in, I simply bow out. I do not come here to experience aggression and I will not stay here to cause aggression in anyone else.
> 
> I wish everyone a good night.



I agree, don't leave. Use your ignore button. 

I think it's great that some people are trying to learn from this thread; but some are just down right disrespectful. Saying things like, I refuse to refer to her by the appropriate pronoun or saying things like as long as she has a penis she is not a woman or saying if you are not born with certain parts, you will never be a woman is just rude and ignorant. Like I said, my BFF no longer has certain "woman parts" so I find it very offensive that people here (not you) are saying you are not a woman without them. 

Yes Bruce was a lousy father. Caitlyn has owned that. Saying I will never accept Caitlyn because they didn't like Bruce or becasue Bruce had a car accident that unfortunetly killed someone is beyond ignorant IMO.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Sassys said:


> *I agree, don't leave. Use your ignore button. *
> 
> I think it's great that some people are trying to learn from this thread; but some are just down right disrespectful. Saying things like, I refuse to refer to her by the appropriate pronoun or saying things like as long as she has a penis she is not a woman or saying if you are not born with certain parts, you will never be a woman is just rude and ignorant. Like I said, my BFF no longer has certain "woman parts" so I find it very offense that people here (not you) are saying you are not a woman without them.
> 
> Yes Bruce was a lousy father. Caitlyn has owned that. Saying I will never accept Caitlyn because they didn't like Bruce or becasue Bruce had a car accident that unfortunetly killed someone is beyond ignorant IMO.


 
@bolded made me giggle so hard.  Because no matter how hard I try to place one on ignore, it never works.  I guess because they're a mod - LOL


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Sassys said:


> I agree, don't leave. Use your ignore button.
> 
> I think it's great that some people are trying to learn from this thread; but some are just down right disrespectful. Saying things like, I refuse to refer to her by the appropriate pronoun or saying things like as long as she has a penis she is not a woman or saying if you are not born with certain parts, you will never be a woman is just rude and ignorant. Like I said, my BFF no longer has certain "woman parts" so I find it very offense that people here (not you) are saying you are not a woman without them.
> 
> Yes Bruce was a lousy father. Caitlyn has owned that. Saying I will never accept Caitlyn because they didn't like Bruce or becasue Bruce had a car accident that unfortunetly killed someone is beyond ignorant IMO.


Oh no! I certainly cannot agree with that. The little I know about being transgender makes me wish nothing but love and acceptance and peace for those that are. I cannot imagine feeling like your own body is a prison from which you are unsure you will ever escape. 

I'm sorry to read about your friend. She certainly isn't less of a woman because of a physical technicality. This thread really exposes just how varied our beliefs are about just what constitutes womanhood.


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> @bolded made me giggle so hard.  Because no matter how hard I try to place one on ignore, it never works.  I guess because they're a mod - LOL



:lolots: stop it lol


----------



## Sassys

Thingofbeauty said:


> Oh no! I certainly cannot agree with that. The little I know about being transgender makes me wish nothing but love and acceptance and peace for those that are. I cannot imagine feeling like your own body is a prison from which you are unsure you will ever escape.
> 
> I'm sorry to read about your friend. She certainly isn't less of a woman because of a physical technicality. This thread really exposes just how varied our beliefs are about just what constitutes womanhood.



This thread shows me how it is 2015, yet people's thinking is still in the year 1950. Very sad. Same people are passing on the same 1950's belief to their children and the cycle never ends.


----------



## blackkitty4378

What is it with the bathroom talk now? Michelle Duggar, is that you?:lolots:


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Sassys said:


> This thread shows me how it is 2015, yet people's thinking is still in the year 1950. Very sad. Same people are passing on the same 1950's belief to their children and the cycle never ends.


As a woman who has decided to not have children,  I understand what you mean completely and it boggles my mind as well. Some days it feels everybody except you gets to decide who you are and what you should achieve. I guess Caitlyn's getting the true female experience in that regard, just in different ways.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Just because Caitlyn Jenner is transitioning doesn't mean she gets a free pass or that things should be sugar coated. I didn't like Bruce then, and I don't like Caitlyn now. It has nothing to do with the experience and everything to do with the person.

I found it intriguing last night when Khloe made the comment to CJ that she thought Caitlyn would be a nicer person than Bruce, but so far, she's not seeing it. That spoke volumes to me.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just because Caitlyn Jenner is transitioning doesn't mean she gets a free pass or that things should be sugar coated. I didn't like Bruce then, and I don't like Caitlyn now. It has nothing to do with the experience and everything to do with the person.
> 
> I found it intriguing last night when Khloe made the comment to CJ that she thought Caitlyn would be a nicer person than Bruce, but so far, she's not seeing it. That spoke volumes to me.


 
what didn't you like about Bruce?  


From my recollection he didn't do much to be a 'bad guy' especially considering he was married to PMK, at least as far as what we were shown


----------



## Sassys

Thingofbeauty said:


> As a woman who has decided to not have children,  I understand what you mean completely and it boggles my mind as well. Some days it feels everybody except you gets to decide who you are and what you should achieve. I guess Caitlyn's getting the true female experience in that regard, just in different ways.



Agree. Also it boggles my mind why people take it personal that she is over doing it with the hair and makeup. She just transitioned, all this is new to her. Yes, she may be going over board, with the make-up artist and hair dresser on call 24/7. There is no rule book on how to act when you transition. Nothing wrong with her having fun with it. It deosn't mean has no clue about what it means to be a woman. There is no checklist on what it means to be a woman, there are all types of women. Some girly, some very butch. Is "butch" woman less than a woman because she is not a girly girl?

We alll know damn well, if we had the money to afford a make-up artist, stylist and hair stylist on call we would jump at the chance. Just like when someone wins the lottery, they act a little silly at first, then come down back to reality.

She never said she wants to be the voice of all trangenered (and she is not obligated to do so, because she is in the public eye). What she said was, if her situation can help others and show that its okay, then she welcomes that. She said, she hopes if others see that the public can accept that manly man Bruce Jenner has transitioned into a woman, then maybe that man or woman can feel confidant that they too can be true to themselves and do the same.


----------



## Sassys

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just because Caitlyn Jenner is transitioning doesn't mean she gets a free pass or that things should be sugar coated. I didn't like Bruce then, and I don't like Caitlyn now. It has nothing to do with the experience and everything to do with the person.
> 
> I found it intriguing last night when Khloe made the comment to CJ that she thought Caitlyn would be a nicer person than Bruce, but so far, she's not seeing it. That spoke volumes to me.



I will never unsderstand how you can dislike Caitlyn so much and bash her for who she is over and over and bash her for having money to be able to do things other transgenered can't afford to do (there is always going to be rich people and poor people, that will never change. There will always be people handed things on a silver platter and other having to fight and slave for the same); yet you continue to watch her show. I can understand if you were watching to learn something, but it is clear you don't watch to learn, because her show has been on for a month and you insist on bashing her. Its one thing to bash a celebs clothes, hair, who they date, dumb comments they make, but you are not doing that.

Why do you even bother to watch her show?


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Sassys said:


> Agree. Also it boggles my mind why people take it personal that she is over doing it with the hair and makeup. She just transitioned, all this is new to her. Yes, she may be going over board, with the make-up artist and hair dresser on call 24/7. There is no rule book on how to act when you transition. Nothing wrong with her having fun with it. It deosn't mean has no clue about what it means to be a woman. There is no checklist on what it means to be a woman, there are all types of women. Some girly, some very butch. Is "butch" woman less than a woman because she is not a girly girl?
> 
> We alll know damn well, if we had the money to afford a make-up artist, stylist and hair stylist on call we would jump at the chance. Just like when someone wins the lottery, they act a little silly at first, then come down back to reality.
> 
> She never said she wants to be the voice of all trangenered (and she is not obligated to do so, because she is in the public eye). What she said was, if her situation can help others and show that its okay, then she welcomes that. She said, she hopes if others see that the public can accept that manly man Bruce Jenner has transitioned into a woman, then maybe that man or woman can feel confidant that they too can be true to themselves and do the same.


I think part of it may be Bruce said Caitlyn was who he truly was and people were hoping who he truly was was more&#8230;substantial.

I think a lot of people thought Bruce was henpecked at home and shoved into a corner. Maybe they were hoping to really see a different person from the subdued husband. I've heard people say they expected Caitlyn to be less superficial than the Kardashians, to really show the strength of character needed to be the top in one's field and to come out as transgender under her circumstances. 

I agree with you and it is somewhat unfair that she's a voice to something she's extremely new to. I know for a lot of people being transgender is deadly serious and they may be looking for Caitlyn to be at a place she clearly isn't as yet?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DC-Cutie said:


> what didn't you like about Bruce?
> 
> 
> From my recollection he didn't do much to be a 'bad guy' especially considering he was married to PMK, at least as far as what we were shown



It always irked me that he tried to play the victim role. *Poor Bruce, Kris is so mean to me.* I in no way think Kris is a saint, but I know it takes two to make or break a marriage and he never seemed to take responsibility for his role in the marriage. If he were so unhappy, he was free to leave at anytime, just as he did later on when it became convenient for him. Khloe isn't the first person in that family to reference how mean/hateful Bruce was to them.

I thought he was a great athlete and I admired him for that but other than that, I never really respected him.  Now that I know he lied to his children/family by omission I like him even less now.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> I will never unsderstand how you can dislike Caitlyn so much and bash her for who she is over and over and bash her for having money to be able to do things other transgenered can't afford to do (there is always going to be rich people and poor people, that will never change. There will always be people handed things on a silver platter and other having to fight and slave for the same); yet you continue to watch her show. I can understand if you were watching to learn something, but it is clear you don't watch to learn, because her show has been on for a month and you insist on bashing her. Its one thing to bash a celebs clothes, hair, who they date, dumb comments they make, but you are not doing that.
> 
> *Why do you even bother to watch her show?*



Probably for the very same reason most people here watch *Keeping up with the Kardashians* and then come here and bash them. Like I said, just because CJ is transitioning doesn't mean she gets a free pass. I wasn't aware that I needed your permission to decide who and what I can bash.
I've seen a lot of comments on other sites from people that claim to be transgender that are not at all happy how she's handled things up to this point so you're preaching to the wrong choir. I watch the show for entertainment, after all it is the E Network, well known for entertainment, amiright? There's nothing on that network that I take serious, including this show. I'm amazed by the fact that it seems to bother you so much. Maybe you should take a step back and stop taking everything that's said here so personal.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Coach Lover Too said:


> It always irked me that he tried to play the victim role. *Poor Bruce, Kris is so mean to me.* I in no way think Kris is a saint, but I know it takes two to make or break a marriage and he never seemed to take responsibility for his role in the marriage. If he were so unhappy, he was free to leave at anytime, just as he did later on when it became convenient for him. Khloe isn't the first person in that family to reference how mean/hateful Bruce was to them.
> 
> I thought he was a great athlete and I admired him for that but other than that, I never really respected him.  Now that I know he lied to his children/family by omission I like him even less now.


I have to admit I also don't think the transition into Caitlyn absolves what struck me as major character flaws in Bruce. He caused a great deal of harm to a lot of people - from his cruel abandonment of his first wife to his subsequent failure to really be a part in raising any of his kids. If he said this was a symptom of his being transgender I am open to thinking differently. The letter his second wife wrote about this was deeply touching and influenced my thoughts on this matter a lot. I don't know if it was posted here?


----------



## bisousx

DC-Cutie said:


> @bolded made me giggle so hard.  Because no matter how hard I try to place one on ignore, it never works.  I guess because they're a mod - LOL



Shade hahaha


----------



## NicolesCloset

thingofbeauty said:


> i think the most important thing in all of this is that it has certainly increased the number of people who are speaking about a very important issue. I don't know much about caitlyn's struggle other than what she and her family has shared but it is hard for me to automatically see her as a hero when i think she was a terrible father. For me i wish instead of seeing her in heels and represented in the media as looking sensational, i wish she'd reach out to all her children and try to repair what was lost.



+1


----------



## Sassys

Thingofbeauty said:


> I have to admit I also don't think the transition into Caitlyn absolves what struck me as major character flaws in Bruce. He caused a great deal of harm to a lot of people - from his cruel abandonment of his first wife to his subsequent failure to really be a part in raising any of his kids. If he said this was a symptom of his being transgender I am open to thinking differently. The letter his second wife wrote about this was deeply touching and influenced my thoughts on this matter a lot. I don't know if it was posted here?



Didn't see the letter, can you post please.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Sassys said:


> Didn't see the letter, can you post please.


Sure! It's really long but here's the link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-thompson/bruce-jenner-linda-thompson_b_7080918.html

It's a beautiful letter, full of love and support but it reveals so much pain that I have never been able to shake it. This passage remains haunting: 

I wouldn't be completely forthcoming if I didn't disclose in this writing that after Bruce and Kris married, there were periods of several years going by without Bruce attempting to contact or visit his sons. No birthday cards or phone calls, no "Merry Christmas," no "Everything OK?" after the big Northridge earthquake. Brandon and Brody will never have those "Hallmark memories" of father-and-son moments. They were saddened by his lack of participation in their lives, and my heart ached for them. When Brandon asked me, "Mom, what kind of a father doesn't come to his son's graduation?" I meekly replied, "Honey, your dad may have been the world's greatest athlete physically, but emotionally, you have to view him in a wheelchair. If he had emotional legs, he'd get up and walk to you, but he just doesn't right now. Just try to understand him, love and forgive him." It was an analogy that seemed to soften the blow at the time, and I do believe that forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves; it's really not even for the person we choose to forgive but for us.


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> i still have no idea in how to do any of those things!
> hope your friend is recovering well, i just had a mastectomy a couple of weeks ago, i am lucky, it was a rare type of cancer and was caught on time
> back to caitlyn, her issues as a parent are different to her gender issues, i think she is a dreadful parent, same as PMK and not because she is transgender but because she comes accross (before and after) as very self centered




Hugs to you and your recovery. My BFF just celebrated 14 years in remission from breast cancer, and her tumor included 3 different types of breast cancer. Just follow your Drs instructions, take your prescribed meds and checkups and I'm sure you will pull through with flying colors!


----------



## pukasonqo

chowlover2 said:


> Hugs to you and your recovery. My BFF just celebrated 14 years in remission from breast cancer, and her tumor included 3 different types of breast cancer. Just follow your Drs instructions, take your prescribed meds and checkups and I'm sure you will pull through with flying colors!




thank you! the worst is over as the last drain came out on saturday, thank god!
congrats to your friend, stories like her encourage me that i made the right decision! [emoji253]


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> thank you! the worst is over as the last drain came out on saturday, thank god!
> congrats to your friend, stories like her encourage me that i made the right decision! [emoji253]




Have they mentioned having your ovaries out? She was about 2 yrs in when it was mentioned to my BFF. I think when she finished taking Tamoxifen. She was horrified, but did so and was glad she did. Angelina Jolie has done so as well. Not sure of your age or if you have kids. It throws you into early menopause, but eliminates the hormones from your body that cause a recurrence of cancer.


----------



## pukasonqo

chowlover2 said:


> Have they mentioned having your ovaries out? She was about 2 yrs in when it was mentioned to my BFF. I think when she finished taking Tamoxifen. She was horrified, but did so and was glad she did. Angelina Jolie has done so as well. Not sure of your age or if you have kids. It throws you into early menopause, but eliminates the hormones from your body that cause a recurrence of cancer.




so far no, apparently is a rare cancer which was encapsulated in my right breast, once the breast tissue is removed so is the cancer... fingers xssed!
so far there is no need for chemo or radiotherapy but yearly mammograms and check ups


----------



## exotikittenx

Thingofbeauty said:


> *"She honestly seems that way to me. This is a person who left his second wife and family to transition and then just changed his mind and started a whole new family? I just don't understand at all. All accounts I've read of being transgender is that living in this wrong body is torture. Caitlyn doesn't seem to have been tortured by being in Bruce's body at all and from all accounts it seems like she is content to remain as is. It doesn't square with the other accounts I've been exposed to."
> *
> THIS is the original comment I made about what was most confusing for ME to understand re Caitlyn's transition. YOU responded talking about his plastic surgery, a phenomenon that takes place amongst a vast number of non transgender people and really, did not address the issue I raised as being one I did not understand and did not square with what I understood was normal for transgender persons.
> 
> I would have welcomed some feedback and insight into this issue from anybody that could have done so respectfully.
> 
> I CHOSE to leave this thread because honestly, while I understand this is a topic people feel deeply, many of us are trying to learn more and understand. I have found the  thread has become less a sharing and respecting of ideas and descended into "this is not how you think or feel, I will TELL YOU how you think and feel".
> 
> I cannot speak for anyone else but I come here to share and learn but when I feel any thread I am participating in is taking an approach I don't feel comfortable in, I simply bow out. I do not come here to experience aggression and I will not stay here to cause aggression in anyone else.
> 
> I wish everyone a good night.



Did you genuinely think I meant everyone who gets plastic surgery is transgender? Do you think I am an idiot? 

Then why do you keep jumping to such extreme conclusions rather than respectfully asking for clarification? Twice in one day, and you really made some huge leaps.  Instead of saying, "Could you elaborate on what you meant ...", instead you say "So everyone who gets plastic surgery is transgender?!" And spout off all these celebrities. That is not conducive to an intelligent dialogue.  It is condescending, extreme, dramatic, accusatory... It seems like you do want to provoke aggression by the nature of your "questioning" style.  If you continue to do so, you will not be happy with the responses unless you happen to be talking to someone with limitless patience and thick skin to say the least.


----------



## CobaltBlu

so...Once again, please don't get personal.

I was going to say more but...


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> so far no, apparently is a rare cancer which was encapsulated in my right breast, once the breast tissue is removed so is the cancer... fingers xssed!
> so far there is no need for chemo or radiotherapy but yearly mammograms and check ups




Fantastic news! Not having to do chemo or radiation is wonderful!


----------



## pukasonqo

chowlover2 said:


> Fantastic news! Not having to do chemo or radiation is wonderful!




those were the best words i 've heard my doctor say!


----------



## dangerouscurves

pukasonqo said:


> those were the best words i 've heard my doctor say!




In Germany we'd say Gute Besserung (hugs). Get well soon, Doll!


----------



## pukasonqo

dangerouscurves said:


> In Germany we'd say Gute Besserung (hugs). Get well soon, Doll!




thank you! [emoji253] muchas, muchas gracias


----------



## dooneybaby

Coach Lover Too said:


> Probably for the very same reason most people here watch *Keeping up with the Kardashians* and then come here and bash them. Like I said, just because CJ is transitioning doesn't mean she gets a free pass. I wasn't aware that I needed your permission to decide who and what I can bash.
> I've seen a lot of comments on other sites from people that claim to be transgender that are not at all happy how she's handled things up to this point so you're preaching to the wrong choir. I watch the show for entertainment, after all it is the E Network, well known for entertainment, amiright? There's nothing on that network that I take serious, including this show. I'm amazed by the fact that it seems to bother you so much. Maybe you should take a step back and stop taking everything that's said here so personal.


----------



## maddie66

pukasonqo said:


> thank you! the worst is over as the last drain came out on saturday, thank god!
> congrats to your friend, stories like her encourage me that i made the right decision! [emoji253]




Getting a scary diagnosis and facing it with courage, hope and strength -- now THAT is what I would say is an amazing example of womanhood.  Best wishes for a speedy recovery and a healthy and happy future.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

pukasonqo said:


> thank you! [emoji253] muchas, muchas gracias



I'd like to add my wishes for a happy and healthy future. Onwards and upwards xxxx


----------



## tweegy

DC-Cutie said:


> what didn't you like about Bruce?
> 
> 
> From my recollection he didn't do much to be a 'bad guy' especially considering he was married to PMK, at least as far as what we were shown


Nah, Bruce had his tool moments. He was angry and just a debbie downer. Only when he'd give the kids his 'talks' he was cool. As Coachlovertoo said, Kris was no saint, but to absolve Bruce completely and make him a victim. No, I dont agree.



Thingofbeauty said:


> I think part of it may be Bruce said Caitlyn was who he truly was and people were hoping who he truly was was moresubstantial.
> 
> I think a lot of people thought Bruce was henpecked at home and shoved into a corner. Maybe they were hoping to really see a different person from the subdued husband. I've heard people say they expected Caitlyn to be less superficial than the Kardashians, to really show the strength of character needed to be the top in one's field and to come out as transgender under her circumstances.
> 
> I agree with you and it is somewhat unfair that she's a voice to something she's extremely new to. I know for a lot of people being transgender is deadly serious and they may be looking for Caitlyn to be at a place she clearly isn't as yet?



He said she was different from him. That is what would make me roll my eyes out my head.

Frankly its crap. I've said this before. Its the SAME person. Bruce/Caitlyn and the media portray it like Caitlyn is a different person. No. Same person, Different attire. That's why Caitlyn still has mannish tendencies. Cause - same person. 

And PS, just ignore doll 

And that's where I side eye Caitlyn also, cause to my knowledge I've never heard it be categorized like that. Folks in those situations, they KNOW. And I've never heard them describe their transition as being another person. Its simply not possible.... Its the same person.. 



Coach Lover Too said:


> It always irked me that he tried to play the victim role. *Poor Bruce, Kris is so mean to me.* I in no way think Kris is a saint, but I know it takes two to make or break a marriage and he never seemed to take responsibility for his role in the marriage. If he were so unhappy, he was free to leave at anytime, just as he did later on when it became convenient for him. Khloe isn't the first person in that family to reference how mean/hateful Bruce was to them.
> 
> I thought he was a great athlete and I admired him for that but other than that, I never really respected him.  Now that I know he lied to his children/family by omission I like him even less now.


I agree.



Thingofbeauty said:


> Sure! It's really long but here's the link:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-thompson/bruce-jenner-linda-thompson_b_7080918.html
> 
> It's a beautiful letter, full of love and support but it reveals so much pain that I have never been able to shake it. This passage remains haunting:
> 
> I wouldn't be completely forthcoming if I didn't disclose in this writing that after Bruce and Kris married, there were periods of several years going by without Bruce attempting to contact or visit his sons. No birthday cards or phone calls, no "Merry Christmas," no "Everything OK?" after the big Northridge earthquake. Brandon and Brody will never have those "Hallmark memories" of father-and-son moments. They were saddened by his lack of participation in their lives, and my heart ached for them. When Brandon asked me, "Mom, what kind of a father doesn't come to his son's graduation?" I meekly replied, "Honey, your dad may have been the world's greatest athlete physically, but emotionally, you have to view him in a wheelchair. If he had emotional legs, he'd get up and walk to you, but he just doesn't right now. Just try to understand him, love and forgive him." It was an analogy that seemed to soften the blow at the time, and I do believe that forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves; it's really not even for the person we choose to forgive but for us.


 hrrmmm interesting read. Thanks for posting



CobaltBlu said:


> so...Once again, please don't get personal.
> 
> I was going to say more but...
> 
> s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/da/f1/c3/daf1c3dca5cbd609824dd83867ed9c73.jpg



Doll, you okay?.... You dropped something ... over there


----------



## nycmom

Best wishes to Coach Lover Toos mother, Sassys friend, chowlover2s friend, pukasonqo and all fighters and survivors


----------



## Sassys

nycmom said:


> Best wishes to Coach Lover Toos mother, Sassys friend, chowlover2s friend, pukasonqo and all fighters and survivors


 
Thank you.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

nycmom said:


> Best wishes to Coach Lover Toos mother, Sassys friend, chowlover2s friend, pukasonqo and all fighters and survivors



Thank you, and I echo your sentiments to everyone.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

nycmom said:


> Best wishes to Coach Lover Toos mother, Sassys friend, chowlover2s friend, pukasonqo and all fighters and survivors


I second this. And I thank everybody for sharing what must still be painful memories and experiences with us.


----------



## chowlover2

nycmom said:


> Best wishes to Coach Lover Toos mother, Sassys friend, chowlover2s friend, pukasonqo and all fighters and survivors




Thank you!


----------



## pukasonqo

maddie66 said:


> Getting a scary diagnosis and facing it with courage, hope and strength -- now THAT is what I would say is an amazing example of womanhood.  Best wishes for a speedy recovery and a healthy and happy future.




thank you, it has been a bit of a roller coaster ride but it is almost over! i am lucky  but so many women have to go through more intensive treatment and having to make hard decisions (like sassy's BFF) and they do it with courage and strenght, my hat goes off to them!


----------



## pukasonqo

nycmom said:


> Best wishes to Coach Lover Toos mother, Sassys friend, chowlover2s friend, pukasonqo and all fighters and survivors




thank you [emoji253]


----------



## pukasonqo

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I'd like to add my wishes for a happy and healthy future. Onwards and upwards xxxx




thank you, to infinity and beyond! [emoji74]


----------



## Thingofbeauty

pukasonqo said:


> thank you, to infinity and beyond! [emoji74]


----------



## caitlin1214

Thingofbeauty said:


>



We must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards good health and happiness!


----------



## Thingofbeauty

caitlin1214 said:


> We must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards good health and happiness!


Ya used me Skinner?


----------



## caitlin1214

Thingofbeauty said:


> Ya used me Skinner?



Get your Haggis right here! Chopped heart and lungs boiled in a wee sheep's stomach! Tastes as good as it sounds!


----------



## Thingofbeauty

caitlin1214 said:


> Get your Haggis right here! Chopped heart and lungs boiled in a wee sheep's stomach! Tastes as good as it sounds!


DEAD! That was GLORIOUS!


----------



## caitlin1214

Thingofbeauty said:


> DEAD! That was GLORIOUS!





There is no situation where it is not appropriate to throw in a Simpsons quote. 

I was having cable issues and I announced on Facebook that they were fixed by posting that I finally got the warm glowing warming glow of TV back.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

caitlin1214 said:


> There is no situation where it is not appropriate to throw in a Simpsons quote.
> 
> I was having cable issues and I announced on Facebook that they were fixed by posting that I finally got the warm glowing warming glow of TV back.


Agreed! One of my favourite, "And I for one welcome our new insect overlords." And when they forgot Granpa Simpson, "I'm cold and there're wolves after me." My siblings and I tell each other this ALL THE TIME!!!


----------



## pukasonqo

Thingofbeauty said:


> DEAD! That was GLORIOUS!




if you guys don't mind, i'll stick to roasted guinea pig [emoji74]


----------



## caitlin1214

Back to Caitlyn,  there's no nice way to say "I put finding my true self on hold to get married and raise a family" but she essentially said that. 


She never said "my family was a distraction" but that's how people took it.


----------



## bisousx

caitlin1214 said:


> Back to Caitlyn,  there's no nice way to say "I put finding my true self on hold to get married and raise a family" but she essentially said that.
> 
> 
> She never said "my family was a distraction" but that's how people took it.




I'd venture to say that a lot of people feel that way.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

I think some are forgetting the fear factor. It the '80s, there was a lot of fear with the lgtb community and the aids epidemic. It wasn't an easy time and that might have influenced Jenner to stop the transition. I can't say for sure, non of us can. I'm sure there is a lot we don't know and nothing wrong with that. And journalists can twist words to sound different or if you are trying to speak open and honestly some things may not come out how you mean it. But a journalist can run with that. Is Jenner perfect, no but neither is anyone. What if someone constantly held your mistakes over your head, especially ones you made almost 30 years ago.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

And sorry to hear those going through health issues. It's not fun and I send prayers/good vibes your way.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Has anybody else seen this?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/three-more-transgender-women-of-color-killed#.mny2eNDeW


----------



## Sassys

Thingofbeauty said:


> Has anybody else seen this?
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/three-more-transgender-women-of-color-killed#.mny2eNDeW



Disgusting piece of sh$t human beings. God, I can't stand ignorant evil people.


----------



## berrydiva

Thingofbeauty said:


> Has anybody else seen this?
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/three-more-transgender-women-of-color-killed#.mny2eNDeW



It would be nice if Caitlin took this type of violence up as a cause and lend her celeb status to these issues. I don't think people have to agree with everything that others do but why is respecting their choices, so long as it doesn't harm you, so difficult to accept for so many people?


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Sassys said:


> Disgusting piece of sh$t human beings. God, I can't stand ignorant evil people.


Sorry. I didn't mean to upset you. I saw the article last night and was deeply shocked. I don't live in the US and didn't come across this in any of the main stream media. Is it not being covered? I heard about the second victim but had no idea it was so many. I can't believe how inhuman humans are capable of being.


----------



## Sassys

Thingofbeauty said:


> Sorry. I didn't mean to upset you. I saw the article last night and was deeply shocked. I don't live in the US and didn't come across this in any of the main stream media. Is it not being covered? I heard about the second victim but had no idea it was so many. I can't believe how inhuman humans are capable of being.


 
No need to be sorry. I'm glad you posted it. Maybe it will help with the ignorance.

I don't know if it is being covered. It may be on local news channels. I'm in NYC, so its a bit more tolerant here.  A while back I posted this about the killings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Sassys said:


> No need to be sorry. I'm glad you posted it. Maybe it will help with the ignorance.
> 
> I don't know if it is being covered. It may be on local news channels. I'm in NYC, so its a bit more tolerant here.  A while back I posted this about the killings.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people


That list made me cry. So many names. And the 2015 list is almost as long as all the years put together. I hate people so much sometimes. I really, really do.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Thingofbeauty said:


> Has anybody else seen this?
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/three-more-transgender-women-of-color-killed#.mny2eNDeW




This is f*ck ed up! I can see how people think hating the LGBT is like racism.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Caitlynn's is still transitioning and as only been living as Caitlynn for a few months. She probably plans on advocating for the safety of transgender individuals. I think she has said she is being public about it so people can learn about it. Is she the best educator yet, no. But allow her to be human too and to find her rhythm. It's all new to her.


----------



## Sassys

dangerouscurves said:


> This is f*ck ed up! I can see how people think hating the LGBT is like racism.


 
Agree! If there is one thing I can't stand or will NOT tolerate around me is racism and bigotry.


----------



## berrydiva

Thingofbeauty said:


> That list made me cry. So many names. And the 2015 list is almost as long as all the years put together. I hate people so much sometimes. I really, really do.


Hate is a mother....


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> This is f*ck ed up! I can see how people think hating the LGBT is like racism.



They're akin but not the same and I, along with may others, absolutely despise the comparison; it really belittles what racism is from a systematic and socioeconomic standpoint. You can't "hide" your skin and shield yourself. I don't want to derail the thread as I normally do......but hate, bigotry, and violent/aggressive intolerance is really sad what it does to individuals and to society as a whole.


----------



## dangerouscurves

berrydiva said:


> They're akin but not the same and I, along with may others, absolutely despise the comparison; it really belittles what racism is from a systematic and socioeconomic standpoint. You can't "hide" your skin and shield yourself. I don't want to derail the thread as I normally do......but hate, bigotry, and violent/aggressive intolerance is really sad what it does to individuals and to society as a whole.




I'm not saying that racism it self IS the same as hating the LGBT people, but the HATE one has towards LGBT is the same HATE as those of who are racist.


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> I'm not saying that racism it self IS the same as hating the LGBT people, but the HATE one has towards LGBT is the same HATE as those of who are racist.


I know, I know, I fully understood you...it's just one of my pet peeves that I can't seem to let go of...


----------



## dangerouscurves

berrydiva said:


> I know, I know, I fully understood you...it's just one of my pet peeves that I can't seem to let go of...




I understand [emoji6]


----------



## Staci_W

The Trans woman from OITNB instagrams about Trans deaths. She has some sort of hash tag about saying the victims names out loud.


----------



## berrydiva

Staci_W said:


> The Trans woman from OITNB instagrams about Trans deaths. She has some sort of hash tag about saying the victims names out loud.



Yep. Laverne Cox is really vocal about these issues. However, Laverne Cox is no Bruce "Mr. Olympics" Jenner turned Caitlyn. Not to diminish anything Laverne has done but I'm sure Caitlyn's voice, once she finds her way, will carry further just given the entire story behind her.


----------



## Jikena

I think Caitlyn had no idea about the trans community being so... attacked (?). I watched the 4 episodes of I am Cait and she was shocked and surprised when hearing about terrible stories happening to trans women. It seems like she was naive. I think, since she's a star and stuff, people are more acceptive of her ? Like, her family, even if they'd want to, can't just turn their back on her of they'd look like *******s. And since she's a star, she can't get attacked, like, a normal person could be... I hope this makes sense.


----------



## tweegy

Jikena said:


> I think Caitlyn had no idea about the trans community being so... attacked (?). I watched the 4 episodes of I am Cait and she was shocked and surprised when hearing about terrible stories happening to trans women. It seems like she was naive. I think, since she's a star and stuff, people are more acceptive of her ? Like, her family, even if they'd want to, can't just turn their back on her of they'd look like *******s. And since she's a star, she can't get attacked, like, a normal person could be... I hope this makes sense.




Being a closet trans person for as long as she was. I find it hard to believe it's new information to her the troubles and hardship of acceptance trans people experience. She just came out yes, but she's known she was trans for quite a number of years. 

Caitlyn didn't drop from a space ship a few months ago and is just discovering this cray planet called earth..


----------



## Jikena

tweegy said:


> Being a closet trans person for as long as she was. I find it hard to believe it's new information to her the troubles and hardship of acceptance trans people experience. She just came out yes, but she's known she was trans for quite a number of years.
> 
> Caitlyn didn't drop from a space ship a few months ago and is just discovering this cray planet called earth..



Well, I don't know, it's just what came out of the episodes. :/


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Caitlynn has felt like a woman for decades. But that doesn't mean anything was researched or looked into or even knowing anyone in that community. 

In the digital age immediate results are wanted. When we really just need to give people room to breathe and let them find their way in due time. Everything is an adjustment for Caitlynn right now. As people on her show have said, she is going through the adolescent stage of life again.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> Caitlynn has felt like a woman for decades. But that doesn't mean anything was researched or looked into or even knowing anyone in that community.
> 
> In the digital age immediate results are wanted. *When we really just need to give people room to breathe and let them find their way in due time.* Everything is an adjustment for Caitlynn right now. As people on her show have said, she is going through the adolescent stage of life again.



Then she should have gone and lived her quiet life away from the spotlight like she said she wanted to do instead of making the rounds and begging for attention. She could have done a lot more good for the community had she not done the show on E because it seems she's lost (and is losing) a lot of credibility with the community.
I'm in awe that people keep making excuses for her. She knows exactly what she's doing.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Coach Lover Too said:


> Then she should have gone and lived her quiet life away from the spotlight like she said she wanted to do instead of making the rounds and begging for attention. She could have done a lot more good for the community had she not done the show on E because it seems she's lost (and is losing) a lot of credibility with the community.
> I'm in awe that people keep making excuses for her. She knows exactly what she's doing.




I've never said she isn't making mistakes. But I'm also not judging her for them. No one is perfect. And her show is bringing transgender issues, maybe not to the extent others want, but it is. You have to remember the show is filmed a few months back. 

And why does Caitlynn have to go hide now? Why does she suddenly have to be the perfect voice for the transgender community? What if this show is watched by a teen in the Midwest who didn't think anyone like him existed and now he knows he's not alone. You can't say what impact this show has or will have 4 episodes in.


----------



## pukasonqo

Thingofbeauty said:


> That list made me cry. So many names. And the 2015 list is almost as long as all the years put together. I hate people so much sometimes. I really, really do.




yup, human beings always succeed in their immense capacity to dissapoint
why it always seems to be open season against the LBGT community?
long time ago, in peru, i was assisting a photographer with a project on street sellers/pedlars and we picked up a couple of young girls (we knew they were transitioning) and the stories they told us about being picked up, robbed and beaten...they were trying to save money to go to brasil to have surgery


----------



## Sassys

pukasonqo said:


> yup, human beings always succeed in their immense capacity to dissapoint
> why it always seems to be open season against the LBGT community?
> long time ago, in peru, i was assisting a photographer with a project on street sellers/pedlars and we picked up a couple of young girls (we knew they were transitioning) and the stories they told us about being picked up, robbed and beaten...they were trying to save money to go to brasil to have surgery



My heart breaks for transitioning children who have to go through the harassment. For someone to say a 5yr is making things up in their head is so stupid. Clearly if a child tells you they are not a boy or not a girl they know what they are talking about. Kids don't make up stuff like that because they heard it on tv. Nor are they taught to know, their body does not match what they know in their heart. For ignorant people to call them freaks or just a cross dresser is crazy. The stupidness of people on this subject really boogle my mind.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> I've never said she isn't making mistakes. But I'm also not judging her for them. No one is perfect. And her show is bringing transgender issues, maybe not to the extent others want, but it is. You have to remember the show is filmed a few months back.
> 
> And why does Caitlynn have to go hide now? Why does she suddenly have to be the perfect voice for the transgender community? What if this show is watched by a teen in the Midwest who didn't think anyone like him existed and now he knows he's not alone. You can't say what impact this show has or will have 4 episodes in.



I never said she should go away. She said before the offer ($5mil) to do the show that she just wanted to go away and live her life quietlly. I believe it's when she was talking to one of the girls. Apparently money talks.
 I do hope she's able to help someone if that's her goal. I know if I had a transgender child I would not want them looking at CJenner as a role model though.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Cailtyn**Jenner*s romance with* Candis Cayne* was hyped extensively on her reality show, but Cayne has finally admitted what Radar first reported  that they arent dating and it isnt true love! 

 According to a well-connected Kardashian family insider, the 65-year-old actually held auditions for the role of her transgender BFFs for the television show!

 Caitlyn didnt just meet all of these already famous transgender people by accident  of course they were cast and, yes, they are getting paid, says the source.

 *Fake friends. Who woulda thunk it? Wonder what else is fake?*

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...&utm_campaign=CandisCayneSpillsOnRelationship


----------



## Dallas_Girl

There isn't a reality show today that is 100% reality. So that's not really a huge shocker.


----------



## Jikena

Candis Cayne is hot.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> There isn't a reality show today that is 100% reality. So that's not really a huge shocker.



It's pretty sad to me that she doesn't have any real friends she could have used on the show.  I agree with you about it being a reality show and not 100% real though. That's been my point all along.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Coach Lover Too said:


> It's pretty sad to me that she doesn't have any real friends she could have used on the show.  I agree with you about it being a reality show and not 100% real though. That's been my point all along.




That is an assumption Caitlynn doesn't have "real" friends. She just might not have known any other transgender individuals. I'm think I know what her life is like or what she truly is feeling/thinking because of her show. 

I never preached the show was real or if Caitlynn is a good person or not. And if you don't like the show, don't watch it. 

What I have preached is to stop judging others and let them live their life. And if a kid can feel better knowing there are others with similar thoughts and feelings as their own, then I don't see the harm. 

I would say also, it would do good to really listen to how someone in the lgtb community feels. It can be heartbreaking and might help bring the humanity back to the thoughts of some.


----------



## krissa

I'm randomly watching the episode with Khloe. I'm not sure if this was answered, but what's up with caits lisp? Is it the teeth or lips?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jikena said:


> Candis Cayne is hot.



I most definitely agree with you!



Dallas_Girl said:


> That is an assumption Caitlynn doesn't have "real" friends. She just might not have known any other transgender individuals. I'm think I know what her life is like or what she truly is feeling/thinking because of her show.
> 
> I never preached the show was real or if Caitlynn is a good person or not. And if you don't like the show, don't watch it.
> 
> What I have preached is to stop judging others and let them live their life. And if a kid can feel better knowing there are others with similar thoughts and feelings as their own, then I don't see the harm.
> 
> I would say also, it would do good to really listen to how someone in the lgtb community feels. It can be heartbreaking and might help bring the humanity back to the thoughts of some.



Well *if* CJ's intent is to help the transgender community, it would be a lot more believable if she didn't have to *rent a friend.* When someone puts themselves in the public eye then they can pretty much expect to be judged on their actions.  Watching her so called sleep over with Candis the other night and the sexual undertones it referenced to (and now knowing that too was fake)  would give me pause before I allowed a young impressionable kid to watch the show, transgender or not.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sassys said:


> My heart breaks for transitioning children who have to go through the harassment. For someone to say a 5yr is making things up in their head is so stupid. Clearly if a child tells you they are not a boy or not a girl they know what they are talking about. Kids don't make up stuff like that because they heard it on tv. Nor are they taught to know, their body does not match what they know in their heart. For ignorant people to call them freaks or just a cross dresser is crazy. The stupidness of people on this subject really boogle my mind.




Yes! I said this too that usually one knows if he/she is transgender at a very young age and should start transitioning as early as possible but people said when you're a kid you can't know.


----------



## blackkitty4378

berrydiva said:


> They're akin but not the same and I, along with may others, *absolutely despise the comparison; it really belittles what racism is from a systematic and socioeconomic standpoint*. You can't "hide" your skin and shield yourself. I don't want to derail the thread as I normally do......but hate, bigotry, and violent/aggressive intolerance is really sad what it does to individuals and to society as a whole.



At least you'll never have to worry about your family disowning you or someone using their religion as a justifiable and legal way to discriminate against you.

But when it comes to the systematic and socioeconomic standpoint, you have it worse in America. And if you're African American transgender, like the women in that article, it's even worse than if you're white transgender.


----------



## berrydiva

blackkitty4378 said:


> At least you'll never have to worry about your family disowning you or someone using their religion as a justifiable and legal way to discriminate against you.
> 
> But when it comes to the systematic and socioeconomic standpoint, you have it worse in America. And if you're African American transgender, like the women in that article, it's even worse than if you're white transgender.




It's not a competition in who has it worse. They're both ripe with their own set of sh*t. For your "at least you'll never have to worry...." comment, you're incorrect...religion was most certainly used as a justifiable and legal reason used to discriminate, enslave and segregate. I can't get into a history lesson about this in this thread because this isn't the place.


----------



## Crystalina

Coach Lover Too said:


> Then she should have gone and lived her quiet life away from the spotlight like she said she wanted to do instead of making the rounds and begging for attention. She could have done a lot more good for the community had she not done the show on E because it seems she's lost (and is losing) a lot of credibility with the community.
> I'm in awe that people keep making excuses for her. She knows exactly what she's doing.




I agree 100%!!!


----------



## berrydiva

Dallas_Girl said:


> That is an assumption Caitlynn doesn't have "real" friends. She just might not have known any other transgender individuals. I'm think I know what her life is like or what she truly is feeling/thinking because of her show.
> 
> I never preached the show was real or if Caitlynn is a good person or not. And if you don't like the show, don't watch it.
> 
> What I have preached is to stop judging others and let them live their life. And if a kid can feel better knowing there are others with similar thoughts and feelings as their own, then I don't see the harm.
> 
> I would say also, it would do good to really listen to how someone in the lgtb community feels. It can be heartbreaking and might help bring the humanity back to the thoughts of some.




I don't think you're saying anything that folks haven't echoed earlier in this thread and Bruce's old thread. I think, however, the desire to be Caitlyn "the celeb" outweighs Caitlyn "the former mr Olympian with the lifelong internal struggle" and it rubs some people wrong especially those of us who know folks who've shared the same struggle. It's sad that she took what could've been a teachable moment and turned it into a way to monetize, get freebies and gain celebrity as Caitlyn especially since she claims she wants to be inspiration to anyone of the same struggle. 

As I've said before, I would've liked to see this show as a special on a serious network to tackle it seriously and do the subject matter justice.  However, in true Kardashian form, it's a reality show aimed at making Caitlyn famous.


----------



## ByeKitty

berrydiva said:


> *It's not a competition in who has it worse. They're both ripe with their own set of sh*t.* For your "at least you'll never have to worry...." comment, you're incorrect...religion was most certainly used as a justifiable and legal reason used to discriminate, enslave and segregate. I can't get into a history lesson about this in this thread because this isn't the place.



I can see why she took it like that... When you said the comparison "belittles" racism it kind of came across like it was a competition to me too. I know you didn't mean it like that. Personally I agree that all forms of bigotry are equally awful.


----------



## blackkitty4378

berrydiva said:


> It's not a competition in who has it worse. They're both ripe with their own set of sh*t. For your "at least you'll never have to worry...." comment,* you're incorrect...religion was most certainly used as a justifiable and legal reason used to discriminate, enslave and segregate. I can't get into a history lesson about this in this thread because this isn't the place.*



Oh, no, I meant today in modern America. I know all of the history about that. Trust me, I'm not ignorant on that matter.

I think I know where our misunderstanding comes from. The *only* reason I brought up race in the first place was to say "Hey, you know how society has evolved into that tiny baby step where it's FINALLY publicly unacceptable to say racist things&#8230; like, in most cases you'll even lose your job? It would be cool if that tiny amount of decency, of not saying transphobic things, for example, could be extended to transgender people."

I was *not* trying to say that just because it's now, in most cases, unacceptable to say racist things, that it means that there's no such thing as racism anymore. There's still a lot of work that needs to be done for African Americans. I'm aware of that, and I'm sorry if you thought that I was trying to downplay what you go through because I know it's worse, and has been worse for a long time.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

berrydiva said:


> I don't think you're saying anything that folks haven't echoed earlier in this thread and Bruce's old thread. I think, however, the desire to be Caitlyn "the celeb" outweighs Caitlyn "the former mr Olympian with the lifelong internal struggle" and it rubs some people wrong especially those of us who know folks who've shared the same struggle. It's sad that she took what could've been a teachable moment and turned it into a way to monetize, get freebies and gain celebrity as Caitlyn especially since she claims she wants to be inspiration to anyone of the same struggle.
> 
> As I've said before, I would've liked to see this show as a special on a serious network to tackle it seriously and do the subject matter justice.  However, in true Kardashian form, it's a reality show aimed at making Caitlyn famous.



I completely agree.


----------



## queen

It is pretty comical when anyone in this thread points a finger for others judging.  Talk about swallowing an elephant and gagging on a gnat.  People everywhere judge daily.  I find it comical when people cry the judging call.  It works both ways.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

The same rhetoric has been repeated from all sides. It's no different either way, yet the thread continues. 

I will always show my support and acceptance for those in the lgtbq community and those struggling to be their true selves. 

One thing is certain though, Caitlynn has certainly opened up the dialogue about transgender individuals in a way no one before her has. And to go down the path of acceptance, we must first talk about it.


----------



## Jayne1

queen said:


> It is pretty comical when anyone in this thread points a finger for others judging.  Talk about swallowing an elephant and gagging on a gnat.  People everywhere judge daily.  I find it comical when people cry the judging call.  It works both ways.



I noticed that.  lol

Anyway, I like to hear everyone's opinion.

I just read that she's planning on getting feminization laryngoplasty to change her voice, even though there are voice coaches who could do the same, without the risk of surgery.  Jen did it and she has a lovely voice. But that takes a long time and a lot of work.  Nevertheless, it does work&#8230; and I wonder if the surgery is true.


----------



## queen

Jayne1 said:


> I noticed that.  lol
> 
> Anyway, I like to hear everyone's opinion.
> 
> I just read that she's planning on getting feminization laryngoplasty to change her voice, even though there are voice coaches who could do the same, without the risk of surgery.  Jen did it and she has a lovely voice. But that takes a long time and a lot of work.  Nevertheless, it does work and I wonder if the surgery is true.


Reading opinions is one thing, accusing others of judging is quite another.  One can state their opinion and not accuse another of judging.  Not calling you out as judging as I do not even know what you have posted just responding to you enjoying reading differing opinions.  It would be nice if everyone enjoyed reading differing opinions.


----------



## Jayne1

queen said:


> Reading opinions is one thing, accusing others of judging is quite another.  One can state their opinion and not accuse another of judging.  Not calling you out as judging as I do not even know what you have posted just responding to you enjoying reading differing opinions.  It would be nice if everyone enjoyed reading differing opinions.



Exactly!  I agree with you both times.


----------



## berrydiva

queen said:


> Reading opinions is one thing, accusing others of judging is quite another.  One can state their opinion and not accuse another of judging.  Not calling you out as judging as I do not even know what you have posted just responding to you enjoying reading differing opinions.  It would be nice if everyone enjoyed reading differing opinions.


American entitlement is outfitted with a reserved right to judge. From what I see around here, most people enjoy engaging in discussions of differing opinions.


----------



## berrydiva

Dallas_Girl said:


> One thing is certain though, Caitlynn has certainly opened up the dialogue about transgender individuals in a way no one before her has.


Well this is not true and reduces the efforts of people like Christine Jorgensen, Chaz Bono, Caroline Cossy (?), Renee Richards, Sylvia Riveria. Caitlyn is just adding to the dialogue.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

berrydiva said:


> Well this is not true and reduces the efforts of people like Christine Jorgensen, Chaz Bono, Caroline Cossy (?), Renee Richards, Sylvia Riveria. Caitlyn is just adding to the dialogue.




It's been my experience that I have seen a lot more people talking about Caitlynn than I did the others. I'm sorry I didn't add from what I have seen. Maybe it is also the increase of social media. 

But like them or not, the Kardashians/jenners are more visible and when someone is more visible it gets people talking more, in my experience. You have to remember too, our networks vary greatly from region to region. I'm in the south, change here doesn't happen as quickly and so someone needs to be very visible to get people talking. 

I'm not taking away what others have done. Please know that was not my intention at all.


----------



## krissa

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/caitlyn-jenner-manslaughter-malibu-car-accident-1201574602/


----------



## bag-mania

*Sheriff's investigators to recommend manslaughter charge for Caitlyn Jenner*

Sheriff's investigators plan to recommend prosecutors file a vehicular manslaughter charge against Caitlyn Jenner for a fatal car crash on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu last February.

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Nicole Nishida says investigators found the reality star was driving "unsafe for the prevailing road conditions" when Jenner's SUV rear-ended a Lexus, pushing it into oncoming traffic.

The Lexus driver, 69-year-old Kim Howe, was killed when her car was struck head-on by a Hummer.

Nishida says the case will be presented for final review next week. The district attorney will determine what charges Jenner ultimately faces.

A rep for the district attorney told FOX411 the office could not comment on Jenner's case at this time. 

If convicted of such a charge, Jenner would face up to one year in county jail.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-investigators-recommend-manslaughter-charge/


----------



## lanasyogamama

Whoa, they want to charge her with manslaughter.  I wonder if that will affect the girls vaca.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

^^ Nah. Khloe went to jail for four hours and Kim took selfies on the way. A manslaughter charge isn't that big a deal. He'll get off with nothing.


----------



## ChanelMommy

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> ^^ Nah. Khloe went to jail for four hours and Kim took selfies on the way. A manslaughter charge isn't that big a deal. He'll get off with nothing.



I had no idea she was in jail!


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

ChanelMommy said:


> I had no idea she was in jail!




Yes for a DUI. I don't think they even made it home before she called for them to come and get her. She was released due to overcrowding. She may have only been there for like a half an hour.


----------



## ChanelMommy

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> Yes for a DUI. I don't think they even made it home before she called for them to come and get her. She was released due to overcrowding. She may have only been there for like a half an hour.



Oh now I remember.


----------



## Jayne1

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> ^^ Nah. Khloe went to jail for four hours and Kim took selfies on the way. A manslaughter charge isn't that big a deal. He'll get off with nothing.



House arrest?

Goggle search:


----------



## Coach Lover Too

When it rains it pours! This has not been a good week for reality star Caitlyn Jenner, who is facing vehicular manslaughter charges for a car accident that killed a woman on the PCH six months ago. On top of that, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that the 65-year-old transgender rights activist was already feeling down because she had to watch her entire family having fun in the sun in St. Barts &#8211; and she was NOT invited!

 Click through these 11 photos of the Keeping up with the Kardashians on vacation as Caitlyn remains at home in Malibu.

http://radaronline.com/photos/karda...tlyn-jenner-not-invited-photos/photo/1187828/


----------



## berrydiva

They can recommend a manslaughter charge but that doesn't mean he's gonna be charged with that charge.


----------



## CeeJay

Coach Lover Too said:


> When it rains it pours! This has not been a good week for reality star Caitlyn Jenner, who is facing vehicular manslaughter charges for a car accident that killed a woman on the PCH six months ago. On top of that, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that the 65-year-old transgender rights activist was already feeling down because she had to watch her entire family having fun in the sun in St. Barts &#8211; and she was NOT invited!
> 
> Click through these 11 photos of the Keeping up with the Kardashians on vacation as Caitlyn remains at home in Malibu.
> 
> http://radaronline.com/photos/karda...tlyn-jenner-not-invited-photos/photo/1187828/



Remember when we were joking around about Caitlyn being the 6th sister (Kylie's birthday festivities - maybe it was the Kendall & Kylie thread!!?!?) .. anyhow, since she is divorced from Kris, why would it surprise her to not be invited?  How many people invite their ex-husband on vacation?


----------



## bisousx

CeeJay said:


> Remember when we were joking around about Caitlyn being the 6th sister (Kylie's birthday festivities - maybe it was the Kendall & Kylie thread!!?!?) .. anyhow, since she is divorced from Kris, why would it surprise her to not be invited?  How many people invite their ex-husband on vacation?



Kimora Lee Simmons, and that's about it!


----------



## CeeJay

^^ oh yeah, you're right!!!  

However, given the comments that Caitlyn made about Kris (and not that she was wrong to do so, they sure seemed pretty truthful to me), again .. why would Kris want to invite her?


----------



## chowlover2

CeeJay said:


> ^^ oh yeah, you're right!!!
> 
> However, given the comments that Caitlyn made about Kris (and not that she was wrong to do so, they sure seemed pretty truthful to me), again .. why would Kris want to invite her?




Agreed! After seeing the pics from this vacation no one looks happy in St Bart's. Caitlin should be glad she wasn't invited!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Isn't cait  in post production? She is ex. producer, how could she go?


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

I saw on a commercial Kim calling her out for calling Kendall and Kylie "distractions" in an interview. Idk the context of the comment so it could have just been drama for the TV show, but I can't imagine how hurtful it would be to hear your father call you a distraction as a teenager. I wouldn't invite her to my party either. No need for me to "distract" her from living her life any longer.


----------



## redney

They're filming for the show in St Barths. Unless Caitlyn is being paid to be on the show, there's no other reason why she'd be there.


----------



## Sasha2012

bag-mania said:


> *Sheriff's investigators to recommend manslaughter charge for Caitlyn Jenner*
> 
> Sheriff's investigators plan to recommend prosecutors file a vehicular manslaughter charge against Caitlyn Jenner for a fatal car crash on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu last February.
> 
> Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Nicole Nishida says investigators found the reality star was driving "unsafe for the prevailing road conditions" when Jenner's SUV rear-ended a Lexus, pushing it into oncoming traffic.
> 
> The Lexus driver, 69-year-old Kim Howe, was killed when her car was struck head-on by a Hummer.
> 
> Nishida says the case will be presented for final review next week. The district attorney will determine what charges Jenner ultimately faces.
> 
> A rep for the district attorney told FOX411 the office could not comment on Jenner's case at this time.
> 
> If convicted of such a charge, Jenner would face up to one year in county jail.
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...-investigators-recommend-manslaughter-charge/



Only 1 year? nice to know the justice system values people lives. There are people who spend more time behind bars for tazes and marijuana. If Caitlyn is convicted he needs to serve his time in a men's prison.


----------



## Docjeun

Sasha2012 said:


> Only 1 year? nice to know the justice system values people lives. There are people who spend more time behind bars for tazes and marijuana. If Caitlyn is convicted he needs to serve his time in a men's prison.




Yikes,can you imagine what would happen to him in a "mens" prison.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

berrydiva said:


> They can recommend a manslaughter charge but that doesn't mean he's gonna be charged with that charge.



Even if he is charged with manslaughter, I bet there'll be a plea deal. It just sickens me that he was seen on camera talking on his cell phone a week after this as though the rules don't apply to him.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> I saw on a commercial Kim calling her out for calling Kendall and Kylie "distractions" in an interview. Idk the context of the comment so it could have just been drama for the TV show, but I can't imagine how hurtful it would be to hear your father call you a distraction as a teenager. I wouldn't invite her to my party either. No need for me to "distract" her from living her life any longer.



Exactly, then CJ tried to justify it by saying they weren't distractions, it was a distraction from her life. Either way, their feelings had to have been hurt hearing that. I think dealing with your dad transitioning  would be hard enough as an adult, let alone a young teenager. I'm sure I would still love my dad but I have no doubt there'd be resentment


----------



## zippie

I don't believe that Bruce will be charged with manslaughter, no way.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Why is nearly every rumor posted coming from Radar online. They're owned by Star/National Enq that site is more obsessed  with the Kardashian/Jenners than other blogs


----------



## dangerouscurves

zippie said:


> I don't believe that Bruce will be charged with manslaughter, no way.




But he should be. Someone died because of his negligence.


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> But he should be. Someone died because of his negligence.


It's so rare of it happening here.


----------



## Sassys

dangerouscurves said:


> But he should be. Someone died because of his negligence.



People should go to jail for an accident? Brandy didn't go to jail and Cait won't either.


----------



## tweegy

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> I saw on a commercial Kim calling her out for calling Kendall and Kylie "distractions" in an interview. Idk the context of the comment so it could have just been drama for the TV show, but I can't imagine how hurtful it would be to hear your father call you a distraction as a teenager. I wouldn't invite her to my party either. No need for me to "distract" her from living her life any longer.



What rolled my eyeballs was when Caitlyn down played her comment, and saying everyone is taking what she said out of context and she has no time for the drama ...the drama SHE started lol  

Mess..


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Wow because journalists have never omitted words or sentences to make things sound worse than they are.


----------



## tweegy

To my knowledge, she didn't say they omitted or contorted what she said...


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Caitlynn said it was taken out of context. So she did say that.


----------



## tweegy

Yes, taken. out. of. context. 

She didn't say that her words were changed, altered or omitted. Hence, She. said. it.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sassys said:


> People should go to jail for an accident? Brandy didn't go to jail and Cait won't either.




When someone died, yes, she should go to jail. Not sure how it is in the US but in EU, someone who hits the other car and causes a death will go to jail. 

Serious question, in the US, if you accidentally hit someone with a car, do you go to jail?


----------



## Jayne1

Can you imagine how the driver of the Hummer (traveling in the opposite direction) must feel because he was ultimately the source of the impact, not by his fault, that killed the Lexus driver?

Maybe that's why Jenner appears to feel so aloof. Jenner's car did not hit Kim Howe, the Lexus driver. 

Now, if I were the Hummer, I would feel sick, chain reaction, or not.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Please look up or Google what out of context means.


----------



## skarsbabe

dangerouscurves said:


> When someone died, yes, she should go to jail. Not sure how it is in the US but in EU, someone who hits the other car and causes a death will go to jail.
> 
> Serious question, in the US, if you accidentally hit someone with a car, do you go to jail?



Sadly no. In the US we have more people in prison for dealing/getting caught with drugs than people who DUI or have killed under intoxicated manslaughter. 

Friends of my family member, a few years ago, were killed by drunk drivers going the wrong way way. The person was fined and was out in less than a year I believe.


----------



## dangerouscurves

skarsbabe said:


> Sadly no. In the US we have more people in prison for dealing/getting caught with drugs than people who DUI or have killed under intoxicated manslaughter.
> 
> 
> 
> Friends of my family member, a few years ago, were killed by drunk drivers going the wrong way way. The person was fined and was out in less than a year I believe.




That's just messed up. Sorry about your family friends.


----------



## pukasonqo

skarsbabe said:


> Sadly no. In the US we have more people in prison for dealing/getting caught with drugs than people who DUI or have killed under intoxicated manslaughter.
> 
> 
> 
> Friends of my family member, a few years ago, were killed by drunk drivers going the wrong way way. The person was fined and was out in less than a year I believe.




sorry about your friends
here in oz (free spirit can correct me if i am wrong) you go to jail for something like that, yesterday a man was sentenced to 8 yrs for running over a group of cyclists, none died but many were badly injured (one cyclist had to have rods inserted in his back to avoid becoming a quadriplegic)


----------



## skarsbabe

Then the following year, a colleague's daughter went to pick her husband up at the bar because he had too much to drink and knew he shouldn't drive. They were responsible. It was Christmas night. They were t-boned by a drunk driver, both were killed. Early 30's, newly married. That drunk driver I believe was a young 20 something. I do not recall what happened to her, but I guarantee she's not sitting a jail from 6 years ago. 

It's so beyond messed up, but that is what happens here in the wonderful USA. Innocent people die and those who made **** decisions get to go on with their lives. More needs to be done in this country to hold them accountable. I don't care if you are under the influence. You made that choice to get behind the wheel and should take responsibility for your actions. Same goes for texting,etc. </endrant>

edit-- I found her sentence - She got only 4 years in prison on each of two counts of intoxication manslaughter. She could have received up to 20 years on each count. The jury believed it was an accident, and rightfully the families of those killed were disappointed in the light sentence.


----------



## Sassys

skarsbabe said:


> Sadly no. In the US we have more people in prison for dealing/getting caught with drugs than people who DUI or have killed under intoxicated manslaughter.
> 
> Friends of my family member, a few years ago, were killed by drunk drivers going the wrong way way. The person was fined and was out in less than a year I believe.



Sorry for your loss. That was not an accident. Anyone who drives drunk IMO wants to kill someone and needs to be out in jail.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

pukasonqo said:


> sorry about your friends
> here in oz (free spirit can correct me if i am wrong) you go to jail for something like that, yesterday a man was sentenced to 8 yrs for running over a group of cyclists, none died but many were badly injured (one cyclist had to have rods inserted in his back to avoid becoming a quadriplegic)



Yep, you're right. Negligent driving would be the charge plus DUI resulting in death. People get sentenced harshly for it here.


----------



## Longchamp

Distracted driving MVC's in this country are out of control.

Let the minor drug offense people out of jail to make room for distracted driver idiots.
It's a damn shame that an innocent person was killed because she was on the phone.
I wish they could catch all hand phone talkers while driving with a camera. 

Its so easy to prevent these tragedies. Keep your mind on driving!!
No different than DUI, you're both impaired and in many states breaking the law.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html


----------



## Sassys

dangerouscurves said:


> When someone died, yes, she should go to jail. Not sure how it is in the US but in EU, someone who hits the other car and causes a death will go to jail.
> 
> Serious question, in the US, if you accidentally hit someone with a car, do you go to jail?


 
So if you are driving in a car and your kid is in the back and threw something that made you jump and lose control of the car, which caused an accident, you should go to jail?

Happened to my friend. His 2yr old threw something that scared him and made the car swerve and hit another car. Other person was not killed, but was injured. Should he go to jail??


----------



## Jikena

Someone should not to jail if the accident wasn't his fault. But if it is, he should. For example, someone who was driving while drunk.


----------



## Bentley1

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Are you for real? I've never been happier to report someone.




Me too! I didn't even want to quote her and have my post deleted as well

ETA:  that should be grounds for an automatic ban!


----------



## littlerock

Bentley1 said:


> Me too! I didn't even want to quote her and have my post deleted as well
> 
> ETA:  that should be grounds for an automatic ban!



Done. Zero tolerance for that. I cleaned up all the posts that quoted.. Etc. but left this last one.


----------



## _jssaa

Sassys said:


> So if you are driving in a car and your kid is in the back and threw something that made you jump and lose control of the car, which caused an accident, you should go to jail?
> 
> Happened to my friend. His 2yr old threw something that scared him and made the car swerve and hit another car. Other person was not killed, but was injured. Should he go to jail??




If the other person was not killed but was injured, the driver would not go to jail. I don't think anyone is arguing that but more so if you were to take someone's life accidentally, it would be manslaughter. 

I think that if a driver were to have an accident which resulted in someone's death, they should get a harsher jail sentence if they were drink driving, under the influence of drugs, driving while on the phone (unless it was hands free), texting and driving or drag racing (pretty much anything that is illegal) because you should suffer the consequences of your actions as they were aware of the risks and chose to endanger the lives of others by doing so.


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> When someone died, yes, she should go to jail. Not sure how it is in the US but in EU, someone who hits the other car and causes a death will go to jail.
> 
> Serious question, in the US, if you accidentally hit someone with a car, do you go to jail?


First, the obligatory each state has the rights to control their laws for accidents and the consequences, applies.

Second, no because it's an accident. If you are driving while under the influence and hit someone or purposely hit someone, you can go to jail; but that's not an accident, that's intentionally driving recklessly. However, generally speaking, we don't punish people for car accidents with jail time. If you're driving along and someone runs a stop sign and you hit them and they consequently die, that's an accident and someone shouldn't be jailed for that...the insurance company can raise your rates, your license can be suspended such that you lose driving privileges for awhile, you can be taken to civil court for damages, etc.

Driving while intoxicated/inebriated warrants jail time IMO, some states have a zero  tolerance policy and other states are more lenient.


----------



## Luvbolide

The vast majority of auto accidents in the US are dealt with as civil matters - a lawsuit against the driver.  Vehicular manslaughter (and up) usually takes a "plus" factor - like driving drunk, driving without a license, etc.  

Ironically, the woman driving the Prius in the accident is also going to be a subject of the meeting with the Sheriff's office and the DA's office next week.  She was driving on a suspended license. 

The highest charge being considered against Jenner (at least from the things I've seen) is a misdemeanor and even if charged and convicted, she may not do time for it.  If she wasn't distracted (by a phone, for example) or under the influence, it is a matter of negligence, in spite of the horrible consequences.

While I am generally okay with how the system works here in the case of auto accidents, the HUGE exception is in the case of DUIs - there is way too much leniency granted in those situations in my view.  DUI drivers should have a huge book thrown at them the very first time, with rapidly increasing punishments for subsequent offenses.  

Off my soapbox...


----------



## berrydiva

Luvbolide said:


> The vast majority of auto accidents in the US are dealt with as civil matters - a lawsuit against the driver.  Vehicular manslaughter (and up) usually takes a "plus" factor - like driving drunk, driving without a license, etc.
> 
> Ironically, the woman driving the Prius in the accident is also going to be a subject of the meeting with the Sheriff's office and the DA's office next week.  She was driving on a suspended license.
> 
> The highest charge being considered against Jenner (at least from the things I've seen) is a misdemeanor and even if charged and convicted, she may not do time for it.  If she wasn't distracted (by a phone, for example) or under the influence, it is a matter of negligence, in spite of the horrible consequences.
> 
> *While I am generally okay with how the system works here in the case of auto accidents, the HUGE exception is in the case of DUIs - there is way too much leniency granted in those situations in my view.  DUI drivers should have a huge book thrown at them the very first time, with rapidly increasing punishments for subsequent offenses. *
> 
> Off my soapbox...


Totally agree! Especially since most states have a legal limit of intoxication. Anything beyond that should punished the first time.


----------



## Longchamp

DUI invokes a social stigma.
I hope distracted driving catches up soon to the stigma as the consequences can be similar.

What if the distracted driver that caused an accident had to have those special plates like  DUI drivers?


----------



## berrydiva

Longchamp said:


> DUI invokes a social stigma.
> I hope distracted driving catches up soon to the stigma as the consequences can be similar.


I feel like distracted driving is not objective. Some people can't have a conversation with the person next to them without it being a distraction while others are fine. Driving in NYC creates tons of distractions that the driver may not account for whereas when I drive in a less populated area, half of those distractions don't exist. There's no real measure what what equally distracts everyone.


----------



## Sassys

Longchamp said:


> DUI invokes a social stigma.
> I hope distracted driving catches up soon to the stigma as the consequences can be similar.
> 
> What if the distracted driver that caused an accident had to have those special plates like  DUI drivers?



I had no idea DUI drivers get special plates. Is this all states?


----------



## berrydiva

Sassys said:


> I had no idea DUI drivers get special plates. Is this all states?


No.


----------



## Longchamp

I'm done disputing this point.

Here's a controlled study for you.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...q=distracted driving vs drunk driving&cad=rjt


----------



## Longchamp

Sassys said:


> I had no idea DUI drivers get special plates. Is this all states?



They are referred to as party plates. Stay away. Ha ha!


http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/special-plates-for-drunk-driving-offenders.aspx


----------



## berrydiva

Longchamp said:


> I'm done disputing this point.
> 
> Here's a controlled study for you.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...q=distracted driving vs drunk driving&cad=rjt


Ok.  Y'all stay in your feelings. 



Longchamp said:


> They are referred to as party plates. Stay away. Ha ha!
> 
> 
> http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/special-plates-for-drunk-driving-offenders.aspx


I don't think this list shows if the resolution was passed or not or recently reintroduced. We definitely don't have DUI plates...I've asked PD friends before why we don't have them. It looks like only GA, OR, OH, IA, and MN have passed legislation for special plates


----------



## dangerouscurves

The thing is, Bruce (past tense) drove too close and too fast for the road condition.


----------



## Luvbolide

dangerouscurves said:


> The thing is, Bruce (past tense) drove too close and too fast for the road condition.





Yes, she certainly did.  Also was carrying a trailer that was heavy and that she may or may not have had enough experience driving.  And was inattentive and didn't see others slowing for a light.  But all of that said, these factors skew more toward negligence.  Sadly, you will find that most, if not all, drivers face these circumstances daily - at least here in Calif.  There are too many people and too many cars and a lot of people drive fast and many don't even seem aware that they are driving way too close.

It will be interesting to see what the DA decides to do about all this.  They will be heavily criticized either way they go.


----------



## Docjeun

Sassys said:


> So if you are driving in a car and your kid is in the back and threw something that made you jump and lose control of the car, which caused an accident, you should go to jail?
> 
> Happened to my friend. His 2yr old threw something that scared him and made the car swerve and hit another car. Other person was not killed, but was injured. Should he go to jail??




I see your point, I was thinking the same thing.  

To me driving drunk or on your phone and having an accident are two different things and should be treated that way.


----------



## Docjeun

Special plates for DUI, great idea!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If I'm not mistaken, my state (NM) has the highest rates of DUI's,. It's unbelievable and the sickening part is, every day there someone's else arrested for their 5th, 6th, 7th and they continue to give them another chance .....I mean seriously?? It absolutely enrages me.


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> The thing is, Bruce (past tense) drove too close and too fast for the road condition.



There are so many cars on the roads in major cities. If you cite everyone for negligence and accidents, our justice system would be tied up with vehicular issues constantly. It's an accident...that's just how it's treated. I would say the vast majority of drivers are probably too close, too fast, too whatever, distracted, terrible drivers, etc.


----------



## berrydiva

Trulyadiva said:


> I see your point, I was thinking the same thing.
> 
> To me driving drunk or on your phone and having an accident are two different things and should be treated that way.



I actually have less of a problem with people talking on their cell phones recently given the amount of people I see texting while driving. Both DUI and texting while driving should be heavily punished.


----------



## dangerouscurves

berrydiva said:


> There are so many cars on the roads in major cities. If you cite everyone for negligence and accidents, our justice system would be tied up with vehicular issues constantly. It's an accident...that's just how it's treated.




Well then at least she should pay the family. Someone died because she was driving too close.


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> Well then at least she should pay the family. Someone died because she was driving too close.


They family can sue both Caitlin and the insurance company...they reserve the right to do such...the judge can decide or they can settle.


----------



## usmcwifey

Jikena said:


> Someone should not to jail if the accident wasn't his fault. But if it is, he should. For example, someone who was driving while drunk.




His negligence caused the accident that took the persons life....that's his fault...he definitely needs to be in jail.


----------



## usmcwifey

berrydiva said:


> There are so many cars on the roads in major cities. If you cite everyone for negligence and accidents, our justice system would be tied up with vehicular issues constantly. It's an accident...that's just how it's treated. I would say the vast majority of drivers are probably too close, too fast, too whatever, distracted, terrible drivers, etc.




So people who end a persons life because they're negligent drivers shouldn't be taken to court because it would tie up our justice system? Please correct me if I misunderstood your statement but I find this absolutely crazy....


----------



## berrydiva

usmcwifey said:


> So people who end a persons life because they're negligent drivers shouldn't be taken to court because it would tie up our justice system? Please correct me if I misunderstood your statement but I find this absolutely crazy....



Is that what I said or is that what you wanted to read? Negligence in driving can range from opening your door in a parking lot and bumping the car next to you to a simple fender tap because the person in front of you stopped short which resulted in minimal damage to both cars all the way up to a fatal accident. What I said was, if EVERY instance of negligence or accidents is brought to court, yes our courts would be tied up with vehicular cases. Every accident doesn't warrant the courts time and I don't believe I said if a person dies due to negligence the driver shouldn't be held responsible. 

I also believe I previously said I don't think people should automatically be jailed for an accident if it's truly an accident. A person can easily be in a multiple collision due to no fault of theirs and spun out of control, hit another car and kill someone in the process....should that person be jailed? No. Sorry if I don't think that someone should automatically be jailed for being in a fatal accident. 

I also said DUIs should serve a heavy penalty as should texting and driving, if Caitlin's accident is not prosecuted then the family has the right to sue both Caitlin and the insurance company. I swear you guys read with your feelings sometimes.


----------



## ByeKitty

usmcwifey said:


> His negligence caused the accident that took the persons life....that's his fault...he definitely needs to be in jail.



There is no room and, more importantly, not enough funds to put everyone who caused a casualty in traffic in jail... But apart from that, I think it'd be ethically wrong to put Caitlyn in jail over this for a number of reasons. First, traffic is dangerous and accidents happen all the time. There are risks involved in participating in traffic, even though most people try to minimize those risks by for instance not drinking before they drive. Accidents are often the product of complex traffic circumstances, with an entire "chain" of actors dependent on their alertness and reflexes. I know there are ways to determine who is responsible legally, for court purposes. But obviously the accident is not caused by her alone - it's the result of unfortunate circumstances in which he lacked alertness. I don't think Bruce went out that day thinking to himself: "let's kill someone in traffic today!" - only if that were the case, I would think she should serve jail time.


----------



## lizmil

Re the accident and fatality, neglience doesn't require intent, by definition.


Defendant owes plaintiff a duty of care. ( safe driving, here , with a what would a reasonable person do standard).
Defendant  breached ( failed in) that duty.
Plaintiff suffered a (legally measurable) injury... Here fatality with cause of action to the estate.
Defendant's action was the proximate cause of the injury.

No "intent" or "ill will" required.


----------



## dangerouscurves

lizmil said:


> Re the accident and fatality, neglience doesn't require intent, by definition.
> 
> 
> Defendant owes plaintiff a duty of care. ( safe driving, here , with a what would a reasonable person do standard).
> Defendant  breached ( failed in) that duty.
> Plaintiff suffered a (legally measurable) injury... Here fatality with cause of action to the estate.
> Defendant's action was the proximate cause of the injury.
> 
> No "intent" or "ill will" required.




Agreed.


----------



## Luvbolide

BTW, the stepchildren of the woman killed in the accident have already sued Jenner.  I expect that all of the involved passengers and drivers will have lawsuits filed by the date the statute runs, one year from the accident date.  I would not be surprised if some settlement negotiations have not already begun.


----------



## V0N1B2

Is Caitlyn that boring that we need a discussion of Tort Law?  
Where's she at with dem kitten heels lately?


----------



## Docjeun

berrydiva said:


> There are so many cars on the roads in major cities. If you cite everyone for negligence and accidents, our justice system would be tied up with vehicular issues constantly. It's an accident...that's just how it's treated. I would say the vast majority of drivers are probably too close, too fast, too whatever, distracted, terrible drivers, etc.



Yeah, you're right.


----------



## Docjeun

berrydiva said:


> Is that what I said or is that what you wanted to read? Negligence in driving can range from opening your door in a parking lot and bumping the car next to you to a simple fender tap because the person in front of you stopped short which resulted in minimal damage to both cars all the way up to a fatal accident. What I said was, if EVERY instance of negligence or accidents is brought to court, yes our courts would be tied up with vehicular cases. Every accident doesn't warrant the courts time and I don't believe I said if a person dies due to negligence the driver shouldn't be held responsible.
> 
> I also believe I previously said I don't think people should automatically be jailed for an accident if it's truly an accident. A person can easily be in a multiple collision due to no fault of theirs and spun out of control, hit another car and kill someone in the process....should that person be jailed? No. Sorry if I don't think that someone should automatically be jailed for being in a fatal accident.
> 
> I also said DUIs should serve a heavy penalty as should texting and driving, if Caitlin's accident is not prosecuted then the family has the right to sue both Caitlin and the insurance company. I swear you guys read with your feelings sometimes.



All of this!


----------



## queen

V0N1B2 said:


> Is Caitlyn that boring that we need a discussion of Tort Law?
> Where's she at with dem kitten heels lately?


Wonderful!!  She has been seen lately with the HIGH ones.  I knew after the bathing suit pic that she had a false butt in the peering out the window pic with the gold lame dress.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

It's no secret that I can't stand CJ, but I too agree that it wasn't intentional. There are different degrees of the term accident. As much as I'd like to see her squirm thinking she's going to jail, I just don't see it happening. The thing that chaps my a** is the fact that she acts like the laws don't apply to her and in the case of the victim's demise, Jenner appears as tho *easy come, easy go.* The lesson of paying closer attention sure wasn't learned as evident the following week when caught talking on the phone while driving. Wonder if that can be brought up in court too?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I do have a question and I'm sure some will be offended so consider yourself warned.

If CJenner *is* convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail, would she be housed with the females or would she be told to take off the makeup and untuck and join the male population?
I've always wondered how that works.


----------



## Jayne1

V0N1B2 said:


> Is Caitlyn that boring that we need a discussion of Tort



Very boring!  lol


----------



## mistikat

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/04/life-transgender-inmate-california-prison-culture

Life as a transgender inmate: confronting a hostile system behind bars and in court

In the visiting room at San Quentin state penitentiary, 25 miles north of San Francisco, Lady Jae Clark looks around the room. &#8220;You see,&#8221; she says, &#8220;everyone is looking at us.&#8221;

The large space is filled with inmates and their families. Everyone is talking, playing card games, and eating food from the vending machines. Because San Quentin is a men&#8217;s prison, the inmates are all men &#8211; except for Lady Jae, who has been in the prison system for more than 20 years.

Mid-discussion, Lady Jae speaks animatedly about &#8220;wanting to have boobs down to her knees, like an old southern lady&#8221; before adding she &#8220;just wants [them] to keep getting bigger and bigger&#8221;.

She is an imposing presence: brash, tall and indeed large-chested, which is obvious despite the unflattering chambray prison uniform (the same worn by all male prisoners). Her hair is cropped short but is curled on top &#8211; a style she achieves, she tells me, by twisting paper towels into long worms and using them as curlers.

Lady Jae came out in 1973, at the age of 12, and presents to any observer as a woman. Nevertheless, she&#8217;s categorized as a man by the California department of corrections and rehabilitation (CDCR). She&#8217;s just one of more than 300 transgender inmates in California prisons statewide (the national estimate for transgender inmates is about 700).

Lady Jae is also frank about her unusual position. When asked about her experience, her response is simple.

&#8220;How raw do you want it?&#8217;&#8217;

Those behind bars like Lady Jae must confront a hostile and violent system. According to a study by University of California Irvine professor Valerie Jenness, more than half of all transgender inmates experience rape. Prison culture also creates an atmosphere where transgender inmates may submit to sexual assault for protection from physical violence &#8211; all under the callous indifference of prison authorities.

Lady Jae describes the violence in Calipatria state prison during the 1990s, where she quickly landed in administrative segregation &#8220;mainly for fighting, not obeying orders, and refusing to stand during count&#8221;.

There, Lady Jae says that she participated in gladiator-style fights staged by correctional officers. Her fighting earned her a kind of respect. &#8220;It sounds really crazy, but deep down I was looking forward to the fight,&#8221; she writes in a letter. &#8220;I was the only transgender to my knowledge that had ever participated &#8230; I was part of the movement.&#8221;

In addition to rape, transgender inmates face the threat of death at the hands of other inmates.

Two years ago in California, a transgender woman named Carmen Guerrero was killed by her cellmate, Miguel Crespo, at Kern Valley state prison in California&#8217;s Central Valley. Crespo was in prison for a murder in LA County.

Guerrero&#8217;s previous cellmate, Jonathan Wilson, was her romantic partner. He said that he feared for her life following his transfer to another prison. On 28 October 2013, Wilson had been transferred to Salinas Valley state prison without much warning. &#8220;I fell for the kindness and sweetness in her heart,&#8221; he wrote in a letter. Over the phone, he later said that it didn&#8217;t matter to him that Guerrero was a transgender woman, and that he loved her and wanted to protect her.

He said that before he left, he tried to request for Guerrero to be placed in a cell with someone who would be &#8220;nice&#8221; to her, &#8220;but the CO didn&#8217;t want to&#8221;. After a day or two, he heard that Crespo had become her new cellmate.

According to Wilson, Crespo told the CO on duty that he would kill Guerrero if forced to bunk with her. On 1 November 2013, Crespo allegedly tied Carmen up, choked her to death, and informed the night CO that he had killed his cellmate.

Crespo was taken into custody, and the case is under investigation. The assistant district attorney prosecuting the case wouldn&#8217;t confirm whether Guerrero was female, but she did tell me that &#8220;everyone referred to [Carmen] as she&#8221; and that &#8220;by all appearance, [Carmen] presented as a woman&#8221;. The CDCR does not comment on pending litigation.

In an effort to protect transgender inmates, many prison authorities place them in solitary confinement, which the United Nations denounces as inhumane.

In 2012, the federal government implemented the Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA), which now requires all prisons to determine housing for transgender inmates on a case-by-case basis.

Lady Jae says the law is all well and good &#8211; except that it doesn&#8217;t take any effect until after the attack has already occurred. &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t protect you if you think it might happen,&#8221; she says. Granted, she also understands this approach because &#8220;people would be clamoring to change their rooming assignments all the time&#8221;.

Part of Lady Jae&#8217;s outreach in the prisons is to inform people about the regulations, and exactly what they encompass. &#8220;You have to be attacked,&#8221; she says. &#8220;Most people don&#8217;t understand that. PREA isn&#8217;t a weapon.&#8221;

Jennifer Orthwein, an attorney at the Transgender Law Center, says that often, when transgender inmates report sexual assault, &#8220;prison staff dismiss their reports, [suggesting] the sexual contact was consensual. Assault is often perceived by staff to be the victim&#8217;s fault, just because they are transgender and therefore somehow brought it upon themselves.&#8221;

I asked Lady Jae about feeling harassed or intimidated. Danger could come from anywhere, she says, from guards or other inmates. But she isn&#8217;t afraid to stand up for herself.

&#8220;I&#8217;m not a victim,&#8221; she says. &#8220;I would just as soon cut someone if they messed with me.&#8221; She explained that once, a correctional officer had inappropriately brushed her breasts with the palm of his hand (they are only supposed to use the back of the hand), cupping them inappropriately. She told the guard to stop, and threatened to report him. He stopped.

Lady Jae understands that it&#8217;s not always easy for people to stand up for themselves. She credits her mother for helping her to feel confident. Her mother, she said, always told her to be whatever it was that she wanted to be. She never thought any differently.

When the CDCR decided to house Sherri Masbruch, a transgender woman, in a women&#8217;s prison, both the media and advocacy groups were distressed. Masbruch was convicted of brutally raping a woman, and her presence at a women&#8217;s prison troubled many. No transgender woman has been moved to a women&#8217;s prison in California since.

Some jails, like Cook and LA County, have begun to house transgender inmates in special housing units, where they are safer and can gain access to counselling and medical treatment. However, on the whole, transgender inmates are automatically placed in situations that might be dangerous.

Valerie Jenness, a criminology professor at University of California Irvine who has worked extensively on the issue. Her study, based on interviews with more than 300 transgender women inmates, indicates that the majority prefer to be housed with men, despite the inherent risk for assault.

When I asked her about this surprising finding, she pointed out that, for many transgender people, affirmation of their sexual identity takes precedence over physical protection.

In one instance, she said, a transgender woman described a moment when a male inmate carried her lunch tray. This simple act of courtesy affirmed her experience as a woman. &#8220;Their identity hangs in the balance,&#8221; Jenness said.

Shawn Thomas Meerkamper, a legal fellow at the Transgender Law Center, agrees with Jenness that gender confirmation is a major factor in housing choice and speculates that some inmates may not even see women&#8217;s prisons as an option. Some also think that there may be anxieties about not being accepted by other women if they were in a women&#8217;s prison, whereas their gender is affirmed by male inmates.

For Lady Jae, romantic companionship became an important facet of her life &#8211; both to survive the violence and hostility of other inmates and to assert her femininity in a place that denied it. Soon after being processed, she met her first male cellmate. &#8220;I knew he was going to be my husband,&#8221; she recalls. The relationship was a source of comfort, and presented a welcome change to the violence around her.

The fight for transgender inmate rights has traditionally focused on medical treatment, namely the right to take hormones. In most jurisdictions, including California, regulations permit transgender inmates to receive prescribed hormone therapy. Courts have made it clear that such medication is necessary when accompanied by an official diagnosis. However, as the ACLU points out, individual prisons may not always provide treatment, and access to any medical treatment in prison can often be difficult.


----------



## katiel00

Coach Lover Too said:


> I do have a question and I'm sure some will be offended so consider yourself warned.
> 
> If CJenner *is* convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail, would she be housed with the females or would she be told to take off the makeup and untuck and join the male population?
> I've always wondered how that works.




Just a guess (I watch a lot of Lockup!) I would think since shes still hasn't the surgery she would be housed with the men. Probably in administrative segregation because of the celebrity status. If not ad seg at least the SNY (sensitive needs yard) so not to distract from the general population.


----------



## mistikat

Second half (it was too long to post in one go):

More contentious is sex reassignment surgery, which, to date, has never been provided to any inmate.

Michelle Norsworthy, a California inmate, succeeded before the ninth circuit in her lawsuit for gender confirmation surgery, and a date was initially set for 9 July. In a powerful ruling, district judge Jon Tigar wrote that the court was &#8220;not persuaded that CDCR&#8217;s safety and security concerns override Norsworthy&#8217;s interest in receiving constitutionally adequate care&#8221;, and found that the CDCR&#8217;s expert&#8217;s report &#8220;overwhelmingly relies on generalizations [&#8230;] contains illogical inferences; and admittedly includes references to a fabricated anecdote&#8221;.

A spokeswoman for the federal receiver in charge of health care argued that the surgery would cost nearly $100,000 and was &#8220;not medically necessary&#8221;. Orthwein, Norsworthy&#8217;s attorney, told me that this figure is simply incorrect. &#8220;The cost is closer to $15,000,&#8221; she says. Orthwein posited that the CDCR was given an overly inflated figure to defend its position against the surgery, an argument the courts did not buy.

The latest wrinkle in Norsworthy&#8217;s journey occurred last month &#8211; she was granted a parole hearing. If released on parole, the CDCR will not be responsible for her surgery although she would still qualify under Medi-Cal. The ninth circuit has stayed her case until later this August, she&#8217;s recommended for parole and awaiting a definitive outcome.

Another California inmate, Mia Rosati, has a case pending in which she also requests gender confirmation surgery. Rosati states that her gender dysphoria diagnosis has a negative impact on her mental health (she attempted self-castration) and that the CDCR must provide her with surgery under current law (the CDCR did not comment on either case because of pending litigation).

Until two years ago, the CDCR didn&#8217;t even recognize transgender inmates as such. Instead they were &#8220;effeminate homosexuals&#8221;, emphasizing their subservient role. This attitude reflects the once-prevailing idea that transgender inmates were faking it for the prison stay, rather than recognizing that transgender inmates sought their true identity both in and out of prison.

There&#8217;s hope, however, that conditions are slowly improving. For one thing, as Jenness emphasized, prison authorities are simply more aware. She gives the CDCR &#8220;great credit&#8221; for supporting her study and seeking information to improve their facilities and policies.

Orthwein cautiously agreed: &#8220;well-meaning people make the rules, but implementing them is a different beast.&#8221; She acknowledged that California is &#8220;slightly better&#8221; because the Bay Area tends to be more progressive in this realm. Thanks to Jenness&#8217;s findings, the CDCR instituted an official policy of employee training.

These days, Lady Jae speaks out for transgender women in San Quentin. She meets with youth and talks to them about prison and their troubles at home and school. She was the first transgender woman to play a female lead in San Quentin&#8217;s production of Macbeth. In her queen&#8217;s crown and draped in a decorated shawl, she looked the part.

If Lady Jae is found eligible for parole, she fears for her life outside of prison. But she also believes that she can present a positive role model for other people struggling with the same issues. &#8220;Through all the adversity I&#8217;ve been in my life, I held true to myself&#8221;, she said. &#8220;God does not make mistakes &#8230; Once you learn to love yourself, the issue will disappear.&#8221;

Correction, 4 August 2015 at 14:51: CDCR did not provide this estimate of the cost of sex reassignment surgery for inmate Norsworthy. A spokeswoman for the federal receiver in charge of health care did


----------



## mistikat

katiel00 said:


> Just a guess (I watch a lot of Lockup!) I would think since shes still hasn't the surgery she would be housed with the men. Probably in administrative segregation because of the celebrity status. If not ad seg at least the SNY (sensitive needs yard) so not to distract from the general population.



LA County jails have segregated housing for transgender inmates. The state prison system does not.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mistikat said:


> LA County jails have segregated housing for transgender inmates. The state prison system does not.



That's interesting. I've often wondered how that was handled.

Thanks for the info mistikat. Very informative.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I would imagine *if* CJenner were to have to serve, she'd be put in solitary or something where she was protected because of her celebrity status.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

They could do house arrest with an ankle tracker too. (Think Martha Stewart)


----------



## Encore Hermes

Dallas_Girl said:


> They could do house arrest with an ankle tracker too. (Think Martha Stewart)


Martha served 5 mos. in prison


----------



## bisousx

Coach Lover Too said:


> I do have a question and I'm sure some will be offended so consider yourself warned.
> 
> If CJenner *is* convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail, would she be housed with the females or would she be told to take off the makeup and untuck and join the male population?
> I've always wondered how that works.



My police officer friend says that if there is still a penis, they are housed with male inmates. If post op, they are housed with female inmates.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bisousx said:


> My police officer friend says that if there is still a penis, they are housed with male inmates. If post op, they are housed with female inmates.



Thanks. 
That's pretty much what I suspected.


----------



## pukasonqo

mistikat said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/04/life-transgender-inmate-california-prison-culture
> 
> Life as a transgender inmate: confronting a hostile system behind bars and in court
> 
> In the visiting room at San Quentin state penitentiary, 25 miles north of San Francisco, Lady Jae Clark looks around the room. You see, she says, everyone is looking at us.
> 
> The large space is filled with inmates and their families. Everyone is talking, playing card games, and eating food from the vending machines. Because San Quentin is a mens prison, the inmates are all men  except for Lady Jae, who has been in the prison system for more than 20 years.
> 
> Mid-discussion, Lady Jae speaks animatedly about wanting to have boobs down to her knees, like an old southern lady before adding she just wants [them] to keep getting bigger and bigger.
> 
> She is an imposing presence: brash, tall and indeed large-chested, which is obvious despite the unflattering chambray prison uniform (the same worn by all male prisoners). Her hair is cropped short but is curled on top  a style she achieves, she tells me, by twisting paper towels into long worms and using them as curlers.
> 
> Lady Jae came out in 1973, at the age of 12, and presents to any observer as a woman. Nevertheless, shes categorized as a man by the California department of corrections and rehabilitation (CDCR). Shes just one of more than 300 transgender inmates in California prisons statewide (the national estimate for transgender inmates is about 700).
> 
> Lady Jae is also frank about her unusual position. When asked about her experience, her response is simple.
> 
> How raw do you want it?
> 
> Those behind bars like Lady Jae must confront a hostile and violent system. According to a study by University of California Irvine professor Valerie Jenness, more than half of all transgender inmates experience rape. Prison culture also creates an atmosphere where transgender inmates may submit to sexual assault for protection from physical violence  all under the callous indifference of prison authorities.
> 
> Lady Jae describes the violence in Calipatria state prison during the 1990s, where she quickly landed in administrative segregation mainly for fighting, not obeying orders, and refusing to stand during count.
> 
> There, Lady Jae says that she participated in gladiator-style fights staged by correctional officers. Her fighting earned her a kind of respect. It sounds really crazy, but deep down I was looking forward to the fight, she writes in a letter. I was the only transgender to my knowledge that had ever participated  I was part of the movement.
> 
> In addition to rape, transgender inmates face the threat of death at the hands of other inmates.
> 
> Two years ago in California, a transgender woman named Carmen Guerrero was killed by her cellmate, Miguel Crespo, at Kern Valley state prison in Californias Central Valley. Crespo was in prison for a murder in LA County.
> 
> Guerreros previous cellmate, Jonathan Wilson, was her romantic partner. He said that he feared for her life following his transfer to another prison. On 28 October 2013, Wilson had been transferred to Salinas Valley state prison without much warning. I fell for the kindness and sweetness in her heart, he wrote in a letter. Over the phone, he later said that it didnt matter to him that Guerrero was a transgender woman, and that he loved her and wanted to protect her.
> 
> He said that before he left, he tried to request for Guerrero to be placed in a cell with someone who would be nice to her, but the CO didnt want to. After a day or two, he heard that Crespo had become her new cellmate.
> 
> According to Wilson, Crespo told the CO on duty that he would kill Guerrero if forced to bunk with her. On 1 November 2013, Crespo allegedly tied Carmen up, choked her to death, and informed the night CO that he had killed his cellmate.
> 
> Crespo was taken into custody, and the case is under investigation. The assistant district attorney prosecuting the case wouldnt confirm whether Guerrero was female, but she did tell me that everyone referred to [Carmen] as she and that by all appearance, [Carmen] presented as a woman. The CDCR does not comment on pending litigation.
> 
> In an effort to protect transgender inmates, many prison authorities place them in solitary confinement, which the United Nations denounces as inhumane.
> 
> In 2012, the federal government implemented the Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA), which now requires all prisons to determine housing for transgender inmates on a case-by-case basis.
> 
> Lady Jae says the law is all well and good  except that it doesnt take any effect until after the attack has already occurred. It doesnt protect you if you think it might happen, she says. Granted, she also understands this approach because people would be clamoring to change their rooming assignments all the time.
> 
> Part of Lady Jaes outreach in the prisons is to inform people about the regulations, and exactly what they encompass. You have to be attacked, she says. Most people dont understand that. PREA isnt a weapon.
> 
> Jennifer Orthwein, an attorney at the Transgender Law Center, says that often, when transgender inmates report sexual assault, prison staff dismiss their reports, [suggesting] the sexual contact was consensual. Assault is often perceived by staff to be the victims fault, just because they are transgender and therefore somehow brought it upon themselves.
> 
> I asked Lady Jae about feeling harassed or intimidated. Danger could come from anywhere, she says, from guards or other inmates. But she isnt afraid to stand up for herself.
> 
> Im not a victim, she says. I would just as soon cut someone if they messed with me. She explained that once, a correctional officer had inappropriately brushed her breasts with the palm of his hand (they are only supposed to use the back of the hand), cupping them inappropriately. She told the guard to stop, and threatened to report him. He stopped.
> 
> Lady Jae understands that its not always easy for people to stand up for themselves. She credits her mother for helping her to feel confident. Her mother, she said, always told her to be whatever it was that she wanted to be. She never thought any differently.
> 
> When the CDCR decided to house Sherri Masbruch, a transgender woman, in a womens prison, both the media and advocacy groups were distressed. Masbruch was convicted of brutally raping a woman, and her presence at a womens prison troubled many. No transgender woman has been moved to a womens prison in California since.
> 
> Some jails, like Cook and LA County, have begun to house transgender inmates in special housing units, where they are safer and can gain access to counselling and medical treatment. However, on the whole, transgender inmates are automatically placed in situations that might be dangerous.
> 
> Valerie Jenness, a criminology professor at University of California Irvine who has worked extensively on the issue. Her study, based on interviews with more than 300 transgender women inmates, indicates that the majority prefer to be housed with men, despite the inherent risk for assault.
> 
> When I asked her about this surprising finding, she pointed out that, for many transgender people, affirmation of their sexual identity takes precedence over physical protection.
> 
> In one instance, she said, a transgender woman described a moment when a male inmate carried her lunch tray. This simple act of courtesy affirmed her experience as a woman. Their identity hangs in the balance, Jenness said.
> 
> Shawn Thomas Meerkamper, a legal fellow at the Transgender Law Center, agrees with Jenness that gender confirmation is a major factor in housing choice and speculates that some inmates may not even see womens prisons as an option. Some also think that there may be anxieties about not being accepted by other women if they were in a womens prison, whereas their gender is affirmed by male inmates.
> 
> For Lady Jae, romantic companionship became an important facet of her life  both to survive the violence and hostility of other inmates and to assert her femininity in a place that denied it. Soon after being processed, she met her first male cellmate. I knew he was going to be my husband, she recalls. The relationship was a source of comfort, and presented a welcome change to the violence around her.
> 
> The fight for transgender inmate rights has traditionally focused on medical treatment, namely the right to take hormones. In most jurisdictions, including California, regulations permit transgender inmates to receive prescribed hormone therapy. Courts have made it clear that such medication is necessary when accompanied by an official diagnosis. However, as the ACLU points out, individual prisons may not always provide treatment, and access to any medical treatment in prison can often be difficult.




thank you, very interesting article and opens a lot of things to consider: will it be better to house transgendered inmates together or will that be segregation?
but placing a rapist in a woman's prison, WTF????


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Even though I'm not a CJenner fan, I have to admit I was saddened last night when watching the show. It seems as though the only friends she has are the ones that are being paid to be there. She made a call to a long time buddy (Bruce days) that used to fly helicopters together, wanting to get together to do the things they did before, but the person was evasive and never showed up at the house. CJ finally went to the guy's place of business (helicopter repair shop I think) but the whole thing was so awkward and the guy friend seemed truly uncomfortable. I felt bad for both of them honestly. I can understand where the guy friend was coming from, because I'm sure it was a lot for him to take in seeing her. (They'd only talked on the phone up to that point.) I too felt sorry for CJ because it makes me wonder what will happen when the cameras and rent a friends go away....


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Even though I'm not a CJenner fan, I have to admit I was saddened last night when watching the show. It seems as though the only friends she has are the ones that are being paid to be there. She made a call to a long time buddy (Bruce days) that used to fly helicopters together, wanting to get together to do the things they did before, but the person was evasive and never showed up at the house. CJ finally went to the guy's place of business (helicopter repair shop I think) but the whole thing was so awkward and the guy friend seemed truly uncomfortable. I felt bad for both of them honestly. I can understand where the guy friend was coming from, because I'm sure it was a lot for him to take in seeing her. (They'd only talked on the phone up to that point.) I too felt sorry for CJ because it makes me wonder what will happen when the cameras and rent a friends go away....



perhaps if Caitlyn went there alone, without the camera crew things may not have been so awkward.  He looked like he was being put on the spot.


----------



## redney

But, no one gets shown on TV unless they've signed release forms giving permission.


----------



## berrydiva

Coach Lover Too said:


> Even though I'm not a CJenner fan, I have to admit I was saddened last night when watching the show. It seems as though the only friends she has are the ones that are being paid to be there. She made a call to a long time buddy (Bruce days) that used to fly helicopters together, wanting to get together to do the things they did before, but the person was evasive and never showed up at the house. CJ finally went to the guy's place of business (helicopter repair shop I think) but the whole thing was so awkward and the guy friend seemed truly uncomfortable. I felt bad for both of them honestly. I can understand where the guy friend was coming from, because I'm sure it was a lot for him to take in seeing her. (They'd only talked on the phone up to that point.) I too felt sorry for CJ because it makes me wonder what will happen when the cameras and rent a friends go away....


This is all where I feel that there some personal need to recapture the adoration and fame that Bruce "Mr Olympics" Jenner had as a result of being this incredible athlete. Almost as if Caitlin now wants to be seen as this incredible figure or change agent for tolerance/acceptance of trans individuals to once again feel that same level of adoration. However, the approach has been nothing more than unfortunate famewhoring. It takes a little while to digest, for some, and doing it while being filmed can possibly be overwhelming.



redney said:


> But, no one gets shown on TV unless they've signed release forms giving permission.


I was having a conversation with a friend, a while back, who's an EP on one of those VH1 reality show about how it all works. I was curious about the scripting, rented/borrowed clothing, why they always film in cafes/restaurants, etc. Anyway, about the release, she told me that they often scramble to get a release after the fact, it's often not done before/during filming. One of the reasons they like to use cafe/restaurants is because they can just post a sign, because the owner gave permission to film, without having to get releases from every patron so not everyone shown on TV has signed a release. 

Doubt that happened in the case of Caitlin's friend...just possible the friend wanted to seem supportive and signed the release anyway (before or after) despite his discomfort.


----------



## DC-Cutie

redney said:


> But, no one gets shown on TV unless they've signed release forms giving permission.



true.  But she still could have gone on her own, that's my point


----------



## queen

I saw the show last night and I did not feel a bit sorry for her.  Reason being at one point it was stated it was about her now.  Maybe not exact words but idea.  In my opinion it has always been about her.  I do believe she said she looked good also.  She thinks she is changing the world single handed.  I felt the guy had a reason to feel uncomfortable and think he agreed to be on camera because he was paid.  I have no problem with her dressing and identifying as she wishes just resent her attitude that she will shove it down everybody's throat and they will crown her.  If she were not on tv I would sympathize if her friends were unkind on a private and personal basis.  She was making an example of the guy in the shop because he did not come to her.  Her right. I just don't agree that you can force friendship.  I also doubt he was much of a friend but a guy who was friendly when he came into the shop.  But what do I know about her friends.  I assume she wants to be commented on since she is doing this publicly.  Tv interview, magazine cover and tv show.  If not for those I would never make a comment about something of this nature and feel odd doing so now.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Well it probably didn't help that I was already in a down mood last night (due to kids leaving town and going home) but I do agree your comments. CJ is ALL about CJ and who knows if this really was a close friend before or not. CJ called and asked the guy to come to the house because it was easier than her trying to get through the paps/etc but the guy never showed up. 
It caused me to have a moment of sadness thinking someone being that lonely. 
Need I remind you that there was a while back I had a weak moment and felt sorry for Kris too. hahaha 
Y'all manage to bring me back to reality!  (I keep thinking *scripted, scripted, scripted* and *auditions to play the part of friends.* omg


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Speaking of CJ being ALL about CJ. Just saw this on Twitter.


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Coach Lover Too said:


> Speaking of CJ being ALL about CJ. Just saw this on Twitter.




Okay. I'm heading back out of here


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well it probably didn't help that I was already in a down mood last night (due to kids leaving town and going home) but I do agree your comments. CJ is ALL about CJ and who knows if this really was a close friend before or not. CJ called and asked the guy to come to the house because it was easier than her trying to get through the paps/etc but the guy never showed up.
> It caused me to have a moment of sadness thinking someone being that lonely.
> Need I remind you that there was a while back I had a weak moment and felt sorry for Kris too. hahaha
> Y'all manage to bring me back to reality!  (I keep thinking *scripted, scripted, scripted* and *auditions to play the part of friends.* omg



I DO feel bad for Kris actually. The woman has her ways and is in no means a saint, but putting myself in her shoes- imo no amount of evil could bend the pain of your partner of how many years doing what Caitlyn did. Its a hard pill to swallow. She's still being supportive whether genuine or not. 

I think Caitlyn showed her character by going after them a bit in Vanity Fair. Cause she knew people wanted dirt.. hell myself included  But I figured as Caitlyn, who was being dubbed as a demure woman of elegance and grace who was trying to distance herself from all things Kardashian. Would not have gone there like she did.



Coach Lover Too said:


> Speaking of CJ being ALL about CJ. Just saw this on Twitter.



Literal LOL!


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well it probably didn't help that I was already in a down mood last night (due to kids leaving town and going home) but I do agree your comments. CJ is ALL about CJ and who knows if this really was a close friend before or not. CJ called and asked the guy to come to the house because it was easier than her trying to get through the paps/etc but the guy never showed up.
> It caused me to have a moment of sadness thinking someone being that lonely.
> Need I remind you that there was a while back I had a weak moment and felt sorry for Kris too. hahaha
> Y'all manage to bring me back to reality!  (I keep thinking *scripted, scripted, scripted* and *auditions to play the part of friends.* omg


Question for you:  What happened to her friend, assistant and stylist Rhonda?  They introduced her, had her on the trip where she was hurt as she felt she had been left behind for new transgender friends  and I have not seen or heard of her since.  I did notice a different lady assisting with clothing at least once.


----------



## Jayne1

queen said:


> Question for you:  What happened to her friend, assistant and stylist Rhonda?  They introduced her, had her on the trip where she was hurt as she felt she had been left behind for new transgender friends  and I have not seen or heard of her since.  I did notice a different lady assisting with clothing at least once.



Rhonda is her friend and assistant.  She seems to really care about Cait, although Cait seems to view her as someone who helped her and doesn't seem to need her much anymore. Unless she needs lunch made.  Or coffee.

Cait also has a stylist who dresses her and applies her makeup.  She's still on each episode, but Rhonda has been replaced by Candis, who is more interesting to watch, since she's pretty, vivacious and can teach Cait a thing or two abut being a role model.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Ditto what Jayne1 said! I don't think I saw her on the episode last night. She really does seem to be a genuine, caring person too. I can't help but think she had a major crush on *Bruce* and now she's not sure what to think. She's so supportive either way though.


----------



## queen

Jayne1 said:


> Rhonda is her friend and assistant.  She seems to really care about Cait, although Cait seems to view her as someone who helped her and doesn't seem to need her much anymore. Unless she needs lunch made.  Or coffee.
> 
> Cait also has a stylist who dresses her and applies her makeup.  She's still on each episode, but Rhonda has been replaced by Candis, who is more interesting to watch, since she's pretty, vivacious and can teach Cait a thing or two abut being a role model.


Yup, you see it just as I do.  User.  She used Rhonda and now has other people serving her.  This is why I have no sympathy for her and friends.  I do not know why I even comment on it as it is just a tv show but it is being reported that she is moving mountains.  Thanks for your reply.


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> true.  But she still could have gone on her own, that's my point


 
I agree. I also found it interesting she keeps saying she stays in the house because of paps, yet there wasn't a single pap following her or outside the shop (I have never seen a pap pic of her at that pro shop or out in that car).


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> Ditto what Jayne1 said! I don't think I saw her on the episode last night. She really does seem to be a genuine, caring person too. I can't help but think she had a major crush on *Bruce* and now she's not sure what to think. She's so supportive either way though.


Thanks!  I did not see her either.  She has moved on, at least for the show.  If I were involved with that show I would never allow her to be eating.  She does something funny with her mouth, teeth that is definitely not lady like and annoying even for a male.  I also would do something about the walking and posture.  Especially when seen from the rear.  I feel some training from a physical therapist could correct the posture and some training on the way she moves would be a vast improvement.  I say this as she wants to look good and these she could work on herself.  i doubt if she is up for that and seems to want surgery or meds to take care of everything.  Just my 2 pennies.


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> I agree. I also found it interesting she keeps saying she stays in the house because of paps, yet there wasn't a single pap following her or outside the shop (I have never seen a pap pic of her at that pro shop or out in that car).



Did you notice the car she was driving? I think, for the show, she's smart enough to not drive anything too fancy, or expensive, and draw attention to her reckless driving (if that's what it was called.)

Not until it's settled, and then she will be back to her sports-cars.


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> Did you notice the car she was driving? I think, for the show, she's smart enough to not drive anything too fancy, or expensive, and draw attention to her reckless driving (if that's what it was called.)
> 
> Not until it's settled, and then she will be back to her sports-cars.


 
She was driving her grey sports car to the shop (the one Kris gave her).


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> She was driving her grey sports car to the shop (the one Kris gave her).



So funny -- you're right.  I went and looked at a Youtube video, I thought it was a Honda.


----------



## Jayne1

Here's what I thought looked like a Honda 

I know, I had little to go on, but it looks so basic.  

Sassys is a NYC girl and still knows her cars!


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> Here's what I thought looked like a Honda&#8230;
> 
> I know, I had little to go on, but it looks so basic.
> 
> Sassys is a NYC girl and still knows her cars!



Lol, I don't know squat about cars, I'm just very observant and notice little things. 

Like, notice when Cait talks on her cell with speakerphone she always puts the top of the phone to her mouth, uh, the speaker is at the bottom of the phone, so why is she talking to the top.

Or, when Cait, Candace and Chandi are having lunch in LA, there is a guy sitting behind Candice that is eating alone (one plate, glass and silverware), yet there is a gold clutch purse on his table. Is that one of the ladies purse, that she put there until the scene is taped lol.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I suck at recognizing cars. I didn't realize that Kylie's car (now grey with red wheels) was the same car that Tyga gave her. I'd be a horrible witness to a crime!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

The way Cait always says *Okay?!* drives me nuts! She's gonna drive me to coloring. lol


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> Lol, I don't know squat about cars, I'm just very observant and notice little things.
> 
> Like, notice when Cait talks on her cell with speakerphone she always puts the top of the phone to her mouth, uh, the speaker is at the bottom of the phone, so why is she talking to the top.
> 
> Or, when Cait, Candace and Chandi are having lunch in LA, there is a guy sitting behind Candice that is eating alone (one plate, glass and silverware), yet there is a gold clutch purse on his table. Is that one of the ladies purse, that she put there until the scene is taped lol.



I always look at the people in the background.  For instance, when they are at a party and everyone is standing around, static, trying to not look bored, but they are... and the reality stars are preening, dancing and waving their arms, strictly for the cameras.  Pretending to have a good time.  Trying to show lots of personality, when it's just their arms in the air.  Kourt does that a lot.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oh
My
Gawd.

There's a *I Am Cait* Halloween costume. I am not kidding. There's a petition to get rid of it and retailers have begun removing it from the shelves.

http://www.someecards.com/entertainment/celebrities/caitlyn-jenner-halloween-costume/


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh
> My
> Gawd.
> 
> There's a *I Am Cait* Halloween costume. I am not kidding. There's a petition to get rid of it and retailers have begun removing it from the shelves.
> 
> http://www.someecards.com/entertainment/celebrities/caitlyn-jenner-halloween-costume/




I can't .... Just mess


----------



## berrydiva

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh
> My
> Gawd.
> 
> There's a *I Am Cait* Halloween costume. I am not kidding. There's a petition to get rid of it and retailers have begun removing it from the shelves.
> 
> http://www.someecards.com/entertainment/celebrities/caitlyn-jenner-halloween-costume/



What a world.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Agree. smh


----------



## DC-Cutie

back to Rhonda for a sec, how are you guys coming to the conclusion she's been kicked to the curb?  I know she works for and is friends with Cait, maybe she has a life outside of all things Cait - like a daughter, family, friends, etc and that's why we haven't seen her


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> back to Rhonda for a sec, how are you guys coming to the conclusion she's been kicked to the curb?  I know she works for and is friends with Cait, maybe she has a life outside of all things Cait - like a daughter, family, friends, etc and that's why we haven't seen her



You're probably right it's just she was crying on the show (I think it was genuine) that Cait needed her for so long and now she isn't special anymore. Rhonda was always there for her, she bought her girly stuff, drove her to the hospital and took her home when she had the surgeries, cared for her. They hung out together and went to the movies all the time. That's what she said.

Then Cait transitioned, found a new life and new friends, hired a full time makeup artist and stylist and doesn't need her much anymore.

Cait even made Rhonda sleep away from the rest when all the trans ladies had their sleepover.

Watching the show, we get the sense that Cait viewed it as having a paid assistant and Rhonda viewed it as having a very close friend.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I didn't see Rhonda featured in the preview for the upcoming episode either. I like her from what I've seen on the show. She seems like a genuine person/friend.
(But she did start out as Kris's friend first didn't she, so maybe she can't be trusted.)

....as the world turns......stay tuned.


----------



## B. Jara

Jayne1 said:


> Rhonda is her friend and assistant.  She seems to really care about Cait, although Cait seems to view her as someone who helped her and doesn't seem to need her much anymore. Unless she needs lunch made.  Or coffee.
> 
> 
> 
> Cait also has a stylist who dresses her and applies her makeup.  She's still on each episode, but Rhonda has been replaced by Candis, who is more interesting to watch, since she's pretty, vivacious and can teach Cait a thing or two abut being a role model.




Rhonda was in the last episode. I can't remember the scene, but I do remember seeing her. She looked like she had little to no makeup on, so maybe she was easy to miss. 

I'm pretty sure I deleted it so I can't go back and look. :-/


----------



## Sassys

Uh, Rhonda was on Sunday's episode. She is the one that was talking to Cait about booking the private jet with Wheels Up to NYC.


----------



## Jayne1

B. Jara said:


> Rhonda was in the last episode. I can't remember the scene, but I do remember seeing her. She looked like she had little to no makeup on, so maybe she was easy to miss.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I deleted it so I can't go back and look. :-/



Shows you how closely I watch this. lol

Is she regulated to assistant again.


----------



## Bentley1

Rhonda was on the episode last night.
She was in the scene where she booked the private jet to NY for Cait. 
It was a short scene but she was there 
Oh, and Cait kept interrupting
& talking over her to speak with Candace. Probably why no one noticed poor Rhonda.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I wonder what will happen to Cait when all of her paid 'friends' are gone..


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> Rhonda was on the episode last night.
> She was in the scene where she booked the private jet to NY for Cait.
> It was a short scene but she was there
> Oh, and Cait kept interrupting
> & talking over her to speak with Candace. Probably why no one noticed poor Rhonda.



Now that I think about it, I left the room for a while. I figured nothing was happening and I went to change the laundry cycle. 

So, in this episode, from what I saw, Cait had her stylist and assistant take care of her, gazed once more from her Malibu terrace, took a private plane to NYC (comped, I guess, since they repeatedly showed the Wheels Up logo) then stayed in the expensive NYC hotel, name I forget but someone said it's around 2,000 a night, use of limo drivers, expensive dresses and her costly helicopter hobby. Does the trans community relate to her?  She says she's a spokesperson.

I wonder if Sergio's helicopter store was also product placement, and that's why she went there instead of him going to her.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sassys said:


> Uh, Rhonda was on Sunday's episode. She is the one that was talking to Cait about booking the private jet with Wheels Up to NYC.



Oh that's right! I remember now.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

From what I have read, I don't think this show is going to last. It feels very awkward and scripted (more so than kuwtk).


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DC-Cutie said:


> I wonder what will happen to Cait when all of her paid 'friends' are gone..



I wonder that too. Maybe she'll decide it's not working for her and go back to living as Bruce and Bruce and Kris live happily ever after. 



Bentley1 said:


> Rhonda was on the episode last night.
> She was in the scene where she booked the private jet to NY for Cait.
> It was a short scene but she was there
> Oh, and Cait kept interrupting
> & talking over her to speak with Candace. Probably why no one noticed poor Rhonda.



YEp, now that you mention it, Rhonda was an after thought during that episode.
Now that I know CJ and Candace aren't really an item and it's all for show, I didn't pay that much attention to it.



Jayne1 said:


> Now that I think about it, I left the room for a while. I figured nothing was happening and I went to change the laundry cycle.
> 
> So, in this episode, from what I saw, Cait had her stylist and assistant take care of her, gazed once more from her Malibu terrace, took a private plane to NYC (comped, I guess, since they repeatedly showed the Wheels Up logo) then stayed in the expensive NYC hotel, name I forget but someone said it's around 2,000 a night, use of limo drivers, expensive dresses and her costly helicopter hobby. Does the trans community relate to her?  She says she's a spokesperson.
> 
> I wonder if Sergio's helicopter store was also product placement, and that's why she went there instead of him going to her.


----------



## Sassys

Jayne1 said:


> Now that I think about it, I left the room for a while. I figured nothing was happening and I went to change the laundry cycle.
> 
> So, in this episode, from what I saw, Cait had her stylist and assistant take care of her, gazed once more from her Malibu terrace, took a private plane to NYC (comped, I guess, since they repeatedly showed the Wheels Up logo) then stayed in the expensive NYC hotel, name I forget but someone said it's around 2,000 a night, use of limo drivers, expensive dresses and her costly helicopter hobby. Does the trans community relate to her?  She says she's a spokesperson.
> 
> I wonder if Sergio's helicopter store was also product placement, and that's why she went there instead of him going to her.


 
Dream hotel is not an expensive hotel (average for NYC). I am sure her suite was paid for or given by the hotel. I thought it was weird that of all the hotels in NYC, they picked that one. There are plenty of other hotels that E! has used and could have gone back to. Also, the jet was way to small for a transcontinental flight. That Jet was something you fly to Vegas from LA. Something tells me, they did not fly all the way on that plane, to NYC. Even the Kardashians take G-IV's to vegas.


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> *Dream hotel is not an expensive hotel (average for NYC). *I am sure her suite was paid for or given by the hotel. I thought it was weird that of all the hotels in NYC, they picked that one. There are plenty of other hotels that E! has used and could have gone back to. Also, the jet was way to small for a transcontinental flight. That Jet was something you fly to Vegas from LA. Something tells me, they did not fly all the way on that plane, to NYC. Even the Kardashians take G-IV's to vegas.



What's considered average?

Interesting info about the plane!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Didnt watch so no idea but with the jet maybe they got in, took the pics and they exited? It never took off. 
Possible? 

I wonder what Caitlyn did with Bruce Jenner Aviation. It is still listed under his former name but no website.


----------



## Encore Hermes

At westlake golf course driving yesterday
Bag labeled Bruce Jenner 





Tmz


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> At westlake golf course driving yesterday
> Bag labeled Bruce Jenner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tmz



Is this the club that has mens and ladies?


----------



## Dallas_Girl

It's to hard to tell from such a blurry photo to see what Caitlynn looks like. Women do wear shorts and polo shirts.

And this photo could have been taken much earlier.  

If this is recent and she played golf and doesn't have boobs, then yes that raises speculation. And would be very sad to have someone make a mockery of the transgender community.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> Is this the club that has mens and ladies?



This is a public course and close to her private club, Sherwood Country Club.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If that pic is recent, it looks like Bruce with a pony tail to me. If it's an old pic, it looks like Bruce with a pony tail to me too. Doesn't look at all like Caitlyn, even if it is grainy.
Amazing what the right dress and makeup can do for a person.


----------



## berrydiva

Is this the first golfing outing since her transition? I know people were curious if she'd get back to the hobbies previously enjoyed.


----------



## bag-mania

Interesting take on the show's ratings spiral from an ad exec



> *The real reason Caitlyn Jenner's show is losing its audience*
> 
> An advertising executive weighs in on why viewers and advertisers are steering clear of I Am Cait.
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner has vaulted from the shadows of the Kardashian clan to become one of todays most popular and influential celebrities. Her Diane Sawyer interview attracted 16.9 million viewers, and her appearance on the cover of Vanity Fair drove a record 9 million visitors to their website. In an age when celebrities look to the size of their Twitter following to measure their worth, she gained a million followers in less than four hours, outpacing even President *****. And if that wasnt impressive enough, she just won the gold medal of celebrity buzz by bringing home the Teen Choice Award for Social Media Queen of the Year. Not bad for a 65-year old retired Olympian.
> 
> Yet despite her legion of fans, the ratings of her reality TV show, I Am Cait, are in freefall. The shows second episode drew roughly half the audience of the premiere, which had 2.7 million viewers, according to Entertainment Weekly. Forbes reports that the third episode dwindled to 1.19 million viewers and theres nothing to indicate that Sunday nights episode, the series fifth, fared any better. The shows poor ratings have prompted most big advertisers to give it a wide berth and leave the media mavens who predicted a hit wondering what went wrong.
> 
> But none of this is surprising if you stop and think about what we watch and why. To begin with, consider the intersection of empathy and entertainment, a place seldom visited by reality TV.
> 
> Successful television shows only come in two flavors, optimistic or voyeuristic. Optimistic television includes morning news programs, daytime talk shows and most family sitcoms. From the smiles of the anchors to the timing of the laugh tracks, these shows are designed to trigger the endorphins that make us feel happy, hopeful and closer to our fellow humans.
> 
> Voyeuristic TV includes the nightly news, reality TV and heavy drama. Dramas like Breaking Bad give us a voyeuristic and escapist glance into a much darker world than our own, and after its over, the real world feels lighter by comparison.
> 
> Reality TV functions in a similar waya window into a world messier than the one we live in. Viewers want it tawdry, titillating or tragic. Its a funhouse mirror, a distorted reality bearing no resemblance to ourselves, a televised sideshow of people whose biggest accomplishment is, well, that theyre on reality TV. We watch them like exotic animals in a zoo, not laughing with them but laughing at them.
> 
> And thats why, despite being a celebrity, Caitlyn Jenner doesnt have what it takes to be a reality TV star. Because when we watch her on the small screen, were actually on her side.
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner, like Bruce Jenner before her, is someone who people want to succeed.
> 
> We all wanted to watch Bruce Jenner clear the high jump, and we want Caitlyn Jenner to break down barriers. We want her to win. But what we dont want is to watch her try to keep up with the Kardashians or anyone else.
> 
> From the decathlon to her speech at the ESPY awards, Caitlyn Jenner is inspirational. Shes optimistic. There was a momentary, voyeuristic fascination with her transgender transition, but now shes Caitlyn, not Bruce, and shes still someone we are rooting for, not someone we secretly hope slips on a banana peel.
> 
> Thats what the so-called television experts lost sight of when they sought ratings by equating Caitlyn Jenner with the rest of her family. Her identity isnt based on being a social media phenomenonshes just someone trying to figure out who she is. So we empathize, even if her struggles arent our own. Theres no entertainment in ridiculing her, because shes demonstrated too much dignity.
> 
> The recent news that she may face manslaughter charges related to a February car accident does cast a long shadow on an otherwise optimistic tale. But regardless of the outcome, that story already feels tragic as opposed to tawdry. There is only sadness, no upwelling of righteous glee at someone elses misfortune. It doesnt fit the narrative we associate with Caitlyn Jenner.
> 
> The Kardashians belong on reality TV, thats how they arrived on the cultural landscape. They are the flip side of the optimistic-voyeuristic coin. So if you insist on putting Caitlyn Jenner on TV, make her a guest anchor on a morning news program or the host of a daytime talk show. Thats where she belongs.
> http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/caitlyn-jenner-ratings/


----------



## DC-Cutie

Sassys said:


> Dream hotel is not an expensive hotel (average for NYC). I am sure her suite was paid for or given by the hotel. I thought it was weird that of all the hotels in NYC, they picked that one. There are plenty of other hotels that E! has used and could have gone back to. Also, the jet was way to small for a transcontinental flight. That Jet was something you fly to Vegas from LA. Something tells me, they did not fly all the way on that plane, to NYC. Even the Kardashians take G-IV's to vegas.



Now you know my aviaton. That plane may have 'looked' small but the fuel capacity is another issue. Don't let the look of a place fool ya


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> Now you know my aviaton. That plane may have 'looked' small but the fuel capacity is another issue. Don't let the look of a place fool ya



What does that mean?


----------



## Encore Hermes

I think she meant to type .....now you know _ I know _ my aviation.....but a couple words got cut.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Jayne1 said:


> What does that mean?



Sassy was saying the plane looked to small to do transcon, I'm saying the look doesn't mean much unless she knows the specs for that specific aircraft.

For instance a C21 can go about 2k nautical on a full tank (I used to take it weekly from
San Antonio to Washington DC). So while it looked small,8 seater, it can go far. 

Cait and crew could have stopped to refuel. Who the heck knows. Lol


----------



## DC-Cutie

Encore Hermes said:


> I think she meant to type .....now you know _ I know _ my aviation.....but a couple words got cut.



Thank you. Dagon iPhone


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> Thank you. Dagon iPhone



I know what you meant lol. I am just so use to seeing the K Klan take G5 or G4 even to go to Vegas I expected Cait to do the same, since it's the same producers (get discounts).


----------



## Encore Hermes

Sassys said:


> I know what you meant lol. I am just so use to seeing the K Klan take G5 or G4 even to go to Vegas I expected Cait to do the same, since it's the same producers (get discounts).



Those might be owned by the Casinos they are hired to host for vs the show.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

LOS ANGELES (AP)  Prosecutors are reviewing evidence and considering whether to file charges against Caitlyn Jenner over a traffic collision on a coastal highway that killed a woman earlier this year.

 Los Angeles County district attorney's spokesman Greg Risling said the case was presented Tuesday and is being reviewed by the agency's Major Crimes Division. There's no timetable for when prosecutors will decide whether they will file charges against Jenner.

 Jenner was driving a sport utility vehicle Feb. 7 when it slammed into two cars on Pacific Coast Highway, pushing a Lexus driven by 69-year-old Kim Howe into oncoming traffic. Howe died from her injuries.

 The crash occurred before Jenner, who was born Bruce Jenner, announced that she is transgender.

 Jenner's attorney, Blair Berk, declined to comment.

 http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/prosecutors-reviewing-evidence-in-caitlyn-jenner-crash/ar-BBm5VYI?ocid=twmsn


----------



## Sassys

Encore Hermes said:


> Those might be owned by the Casinos they are hired to host for vs the show.



Even when they go to Mexico or skiing  they take bigger planes for a short distance.


----------



## DC-Cutie

lordt can we get back to cait?


----------



## schadenfreude

Coach Lover Too said:


> The way Cait always says *Okay?!* drives me nuts! She's gonna drive me to coloring. lol



This made me snort and yes. I want to slap her with every "Okay!?". It sounds soooo forced and try-hard.


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> Sassy was saying the plane looked to small to do transcon, I'm saying the look doesn't mean much unless she knows the specs for that specific aircraft.
> 
> For instance a C21 can go about 2k nautical on a full tank (I used to take it weekly from
> San Antonio to Washington DC). So while it looked small,8 seater, it can go far.
> 
> Cait and crew could have stopped to refuel. Who the heck knows. Lol



Thank you!


----------



## Vanilla Bean

The constant "okay"s aren't new to Caitlyn - that's a habit leftover from Bruce.

I'm really enjoying the tone and content of the show. It's so much more thoughtful and issue oriented than I would have expected. For me, it's the reality version of Amazon's "Transparent."


----------



## ChanelMommy

That pic looks old..pre-Cait. I'm watching the first episode now with his mother.


----------



## Florasun

Coach Lover Too said:


> The way Cait always says *Okay?!* drives me nuts! She's gonna drive me to coloring. lol



OMG me too! Oh wait we already said this. OKAY?!


----------



## Jikena

schadenfreude said:


> This made me snort and yes. I want to slap her with every "Okay!?". It sounds soooo forced and try-hard.



Lol I have to admit... me too. "Ookaaaaaaaay ?" hurgh.


----------



## tweegy

Jayne1 said:


> Now that I think about it, I left the room for a while. I figured nothing was happening and I went to change the laundry cycle.
> 
> So, in this episode, from what I saw, Cait had her stylist and assistant take care of her, gazed once more from her Malibu terrace, took a private plane to NYC (comped, I guess, since they repeatedly showed the Wheels Up logo) then stayed in the expensive NYC hotel, name I forget but someone said it's around 2,000 a night, use of limo drivers, expensive dresses and her costly helicopter hobby. Does the trans community relate to her?  She says she's a spokesperson.
> 
> I wonder if Sergio's helicopter store was also product placement, and that's why she went there instead of him going to her.




That Sergio story is so stupid and fake... So Caitlyn tells the guy she can't go out to him, so she can't send the helicopter in to the store with someone for repairs?


----------



## Jikena

I hate how Caitlyn tries to, like, make jokes or something when she's  uncomfortable. It's a big give away and it makes things even more  awkward (usually happens when she meets people as Cait for the first  time).


----------



## tweegy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...tments-boil-following-transgender-reveal.html


----------



## DC-Cutie

tweegy said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...tments-boil-following-transgender-reveal.html



I can see this being true


----------



## Sassys

tweegy said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...tments-boil-following-transgender-reveal.html


 
Sad. She didn't even say anything bad in the Vanity Fair article. She spoke her truth. They are just scared to death, she won't lie for them and reveal some secrets.


----------



## Encore Hermes

I believe it but because it doesn't benefit them to be involved anymore. I  think it would be different if the Cait show had high ratings.

They seemed supportive when the vanity faire article came out, and they were filmed supporting her at the espy's. So why now, what changed?


----------



## GaitreeS

Encore Hermes said:


> I believe it but because it doesn't benefit them to be involved anymore. I  think it would be different if the Cait show had high ratings.
> 
> They seemed supportive when the vanity faire article came out, and they were filmed supporting her at the espy's. So why now, what changed?


Fo' sho'  

I may be too cynical where this family is concerned, but I don't believe a thing they do or say.


----------



## Encore Hermes

GaitreeS said:


> Fo' sho'
> 
> I may be too cynical where this family is concerned, but I don't believe a thing they do or say.



Exactly

. 

_The underlying issues behind the family feud seem to be primarily due to the Vanity Fair cover story and her statements about ex-wife Kris Jenner, 59.
'Vanity Fair was the start of the downfall,' a source told the publication. 'It came out and they looked like idiots, they first saw the article on Twitter!'_

And it is softer to start having PR drop hints like this rather than dropping her out just because she (Cait) isn't helping the family brand. Softly, keeping it PC. 



 more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...resentments-boil-following-transgender-reveal


----------



## labelwhore04

I don't understand what she said in the VF interview that was so horrible? Everything she said was pretty mild from what i remember. I feel like the K's are just trying to find an excuse to not be supportive, either they're salty because Cait is getting more attention than them, or they're just not supportive of the transition and need an excuse to not be a part of it, i dunno.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I guarantee if there were a HUGE paycheck involved, they'd be supportive. Kris must have umped the ante. *You side with mama and I'll make it worth your time.*


----------



## tweegy

I agree with this comment:

Imnotquitesure, Nomad, United States, 20 hours ago
If someone publicly said hurtful things about my mom I would be angry too, it wouldn't matter if it was true or not , I would still defend my mom


----------



## No1YouKnow

Coach Lover Too said:


> I guarantee if there were a HUGE paycheck involved, they'd be supportive. Kris must have umped the ante. *You side with mama and I'll make it worth your time.*



I love your avatar Coach Lover!

I agree with this.  I like Cait but I never could stand her family.  Being in the industry and knowing what it took for me to just get where I am it pisses me off that they're famous for nothing.


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...n-offends-pal-choice-words.html#ixzz3k3aeCzdP

*Caitlyn Jenner admits she likes the idea of finding 'a guy to treat me like a real woman'... but offends pal with her choice of words*

Caitlyn Jenner has admitted she's looking for a man who will treat her like 'a real woman.'

The reality star, 65, lets the surprising admission slip during a sneak peek of this Sunday's episode of E! show I Am Cait, telling her pal Jenny Boylan that 'it would be very attractive to me to have a guy treat me like a woman.'

The former Bruce Jenner has previously said that she is not attracted to men, telling Diane Sawyer in April that sexuality and gender identity were 'apples and oranges'.

However, Jenner's use of the phrase 'a real woman' offended her transgender friend, who has been by her side as Caitlyn navigates her new world. 

When a visibly surprised Jenny asked 'What does that mean?', the former Olympian attempted to explain herself, but just caused further offense.

'That you would be treated like a normal woman', she said.

That prompted a puzzled Boylan, who is chair of GLAAD, ask 'What do you mean, a normal woman?'

'Like any other woman on the street and not make it this big trans thing, or this or that. Just a normal relationship.' 

On previous episodes of I Am Cait, Jenner has denied she is interested in dating men, and has been coy about her flirty relationship with new gal pal Candis Cayne. 

When asked at a past dinner party if she was more attracted to men, Jenner said 'No, Im not gay. I am as far as I know, heterosexual.'

But she added: 'Ive never been with a guy, Ive always been married, raising kids.'  

However, on Sunday's upcoming episode Jenny quickly sets the reality star straight about her choice of words, telling her she doesn't need a man's approval to be a 'real woman'.

'So you know what, Caitlyn Jenner? You are a normal woman, right now, today,' said Boylan. 

'You don't need a man to make you a woman. A woman can make you a woman.' 

'I think it's a thing that women do: we look to men to give us self-worth.'

'Now that you're in the sisterhood, you have gone to such trouble to be a woman; don't be a stupid one. Be a smart one.'

Jenner nodded and agreed as she listened to her friend's advice.

The admission comes as it was revealed things are tense between the former Bruce Jenner and stepchildren Kim, Kourtney and Khloe Kardashian.

On last week's show, Khloe and Kim confronted Caitlyn to defend their mother Kris Jenner, who they said had been 'dragged through the mud' in the Vanity Fair interview.


----------



## Jayne1

I love Jennifer Finney Boylan she's one of the reason i watch the show.  The other Jen is quite terrific too. Very inspiring.  Actually, all of Cait's new 'friends' are.


----------



## lizmil

I've never watched the Cait show, but cynical me wonders if that comment was to stir up drama and raise the sagging ratings.


----------



## Docjeun

Well then I'm cynical too


----------



## Coach Lover Too

No1YouKnow said:


> *I love your avatar Coach Lover!*
> 
> I agree with this.  I like Cait but I never could stand her family.  Being in the industry and knowing what it took for me to just get where I am it pisses me off that they're famous for nothing.



Thanks!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Trulyadiva said:


> Well then I'm cynical too



I've been cynical from the get go. 

I like all of Cait's *hire a friend(s)* too!


----------



## No1YouKnow

I think all of the reality shows do that don't you?  Producers usually suggest and guide the "scenes" so I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I don't watch though - but I may have to now.


----------



## ChanelMommy

lizmil said:


> I've never watched the Cait show, but cynical me wonders if that comment was to stir up drama and raise the sagging ratings.



This.


----------



## horse17

so im watching the show, and Im confused...it seems caitlyn is not comfortable in the TG community, at least not yet..maybe this is just part of the whole transition...but now, the question of dating has come up with her and the others....so, who do TG people have relationships with?...male, female, gay, trans?.....or is it not always the same with evryone?


----------



## labelwhore04

horse17 said:


> so im watching the show, and Im confused...it seems caitlyn is not comfortable in the TG community, at least not yet..maybe this is just part of the whole transition...but now, the question of dating has come up with her and the others....so, who do TG people have relationships with?...male, female, gay, trans?.....or is it not always the same with evryone?



It's different for everyone. Gender identity is completely separate from sexual orientation, i think that's what confuses a lot of people. They don't go "hand in hand" like many people think.


----------



## horse17

labelwhore04 said:


> It's different for everyone. Gender identity is completely separate from sexual orientation, i think that's what confuses a lot of people. They don't go "hand in hand" like many people think.


I was kind of thinking that, but wasnt sure...interesting...


----------



## Jayne1

Why are they pretending that Cait and Candis have an attraction? Candis said she only likes guys and what are the chances that two trans people will hook up?


----------



## Jikena

And Candis is so out of Cait's league.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> Why are they pretending that Cait and Candis have an attraction? Candis said she only likes guys and what are the chances that two trans people will hook up?



I watched the last part of the show last night and I get the impression that CJ has a major crush on Candis but it's not being reciprocated. She's just going along with the storyline because that's what she's being paid to do.  She's a doll though, attractive AND funny so I can see why CJ would be smitten with her!


----------



## Jikena

Coach Lover Too said:


> I watched the last part of the show last night and I get the impression that CJ has a major crush on Candis but it's not being reciprocated. She's just going along with the storyline because that's what she's being paid to do.  She's a doll though, attractive AND funny so I can see why CJ would be smitten with her!



Completely agree with you


----------



## bagsforme

Jayne1 said:


> I love Jennifer Finney Boylan she's one of the reason i watch the show.  The other Jen is quite terrific too. Very inspiring.  Actually, all of Cait's new 'friends' are.



I agree.  She's very intelligent.  I wonder if she has a degree in psychology.  She has great advice.  Their conversations are like they are at a therapy session.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bagsforme said:


> I agree.  She's very intelligent.  I wonder if she has a degree in psychology.  She has great advice.  Their conversations are like they are at a therapy session.



I got that impression too!  She's someone you would want as a friend, upfront and truthful.


----------



## limom

While this poor excuse of a human being is busy going around "feminizing" herself, his youngest daughter is slowly metamorphosing into a living blow up sex doll.
Maybe, if Cait was more present in her life, Kylie would not have appeared in a video promoting the pervert who sexually victimized her. What kind of a bull $hit is that????
WTF? Bruce might have transitioned into Caitlyn but this individual is still a total douchebag.
And her show is not only boring as fuc$ but does nothing except reinforcing the negative stereotypes.
The entire family is crazy! 
And it is my opinion that Bruce participated actively in the degradation of his children, enough with blaming Kris only. He was far from being the benevolent father portrayed on their shows.
And now she goes around and plays house with a bunch of paid playmates. 
I lost all sympathy, I felt at the beginning of his transition. He/she was an azzhole all along and an opportunist to boot.
I don't believe that her motive is to help and educate others, how about taking care of her own kids????


----------



## bisousx

Watched the show for the first time... Very boring.


----------



## zen1965

limom said:


> ....



AHHHHH, Limom!!! You're back! I MISSED you. Hope you are well.


----------



## limom

zen1965 said:


> AHHHHH, Limom!!! You're back! I MISSED you. Hope you are well.



Thanks Doll, that Tyga video put me over the edge!


----------



## lizmil

^ Tyga video and lyrics. How can people buy and support that stuff? And call it talented?


----------



## coconutsboston

limom said:


> While this poor excuse of a human being is busy going around "feminizing" herself, his youngest daughter is slowly metamorphosing into a living blow up sex doll.
> 
> Maybe, if Cait was more present in her life, Kylie would not have appeared in a video promoting the pervert who sexually victimized her. What kind of a bull $hit is that????
> 
> WTF? Bruce might have transitioned into Caitlyn but this individual is still a total douchebag.
> 
> And her show is not only boring as fuc$ but does nothing except reinforcing the negative stereotypes.
> 
> The entire family is crazy!
> 
> And it is my opinion that Bruce participated actively in the degradation of his children, enough with blaming Kris only. He was far from being the benevolent father portrayed on their shows.
> 
> And now she goes around and plays house with a bunch of paid playmates.
> 
> I lost all sympathy, I felt at the beginning of his transition. He/she was an azzhole all along and an opportunist to boot.
> 
> I don't believe that her motive is to help and educate others, how about taking care of her own kids????




Late to the party I suppose, but who victimized Kylie? 

I definitely don't think Cait has or has had any intention of educating others past a very superficial surface level. It's too contrived.


----------



## Jikena

coconutsboston said:


> Late to the party I suppose, but who victimized Kylie?
> 
> I definitely don't think Cait has or has had any intention of educating others past a very superficial surface level. It's too contrived.



She's talking about Tygga...

It makes it sound like he raped her or something. She's (was) 17. She's at an age where she can make her own decisions. She decided to get in a relationship with him. She was not "sexually victimized".  Or maybe I didn't understand the expression ?


----------



## Encore Hermes

Possible tyga was with her before she was 17.  

He was around when she was 14





Eonline


----------



## Kitties Are Cute

I can't even believe that picture above is her!!! She looks ridiculously different.


----------



## chowlover2

coconutsboston said:


> Late to the party I suppose, but who victimized Kylie?
> 
> I definitely don't think Cait has or has had any intention of educating others past a very superficial surface level. It's too contrived.




Agreed, when all is said and done, Cait is still a white, rich **********. She has no idea what transgendered in cities or middle America face on a daily basis. I believe the show is doing poorly, maybe she will fade into oblivion.


----------



## Sasha2012

They are well known for their luscious lips and perfect pouts.

So it seemed to be a case of anything you can do for Caitlyn Jenner on Tuesday when she was spotted on her way to a meeting regarding her reality show in Los Angeles.

The 65-year-old was wearing a pale pink lip colour which enhanced her mouth  - and she seemed to be leaving her lips open to further accentuate their size as she walked in the Californian sunshine. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...fe-Kris-showing-trout-pout.html#ixzz3kYUyVwwy


----------



## AnaV

When I watched the Diane Sawyer special I got the feeling that he had some sort of issue when it comes to parenthood. A lot of guilty maybe. Could this be why he raised Kylie this way? Without imposing so many boundaries? ... 
Sometimes I think is weird that Kris gets all the blame...

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/bruce-jenners-eldest-kids-forgive-his-absence-from-their-childhood--2015274


----------



## Wildflower22

Caitlyn looks like Steven Tyler in those pics.


----------



## berrydiva

lizmil said:


> ^ Tyga video and lyrics. How can people buy and support that stuff? And call it talented?



If it helps, no one buys his stuff (his last album sold 25k copies) and not many think he's talented.


----------



## mcb100

I watched an episode of his show yesterday. I'm not sure if it was the most recent episode or not, but it was on the TV at the time.
  I like what Caitlyn is trying to do about helping the other trans people and their community, and giving the public knowledge about everything and what's it like to be trans, all those things. But I thought in a small way that Kim was right too. I mean can you imagine if your father called you a distraction in a world wide magazine that a lot of people were going to look at? Poor Kendal & Kylie.
  I like where Caitlyn's going with everything, (helping people to be their true self, and talking about her experiences with trans kids), but I agree with Kim that he does need to choose his words more carefully. Anyone would have a hard time with their father suddenly becoming transgender...Cait shouldn't have been spiteful & started saying negative things about Kris and the others. She just needs to think a bit more before she speaks, and then she'll have everything right in place. Just because someone isn't as fully supportive of your choices at first, doesn't mean that the best thing to do is to say negative things about them in an interview. Even if those things are honest, they are still family.
   But yanno it's a complicated subject for everyone. I think she's on the right page right now with trying to help people. It is nice that she developed a group of friends who are like her that she can count on.


----------



## chowlover2

mcb100 said:


> I watched an episode of his show yesterday. I'm not sure if it was the most recent episode or not, but it was on the TV at the time.
> I like what Caitlyn is trying to do about helping the other trans people and their community, and giving the public knowledge about everything and what's it like to be trans, all those things. But I thought in a small way that Kim was right too. I mean can you imagine if your father called you a distraction in a world wide magazine that a lot of people were going to look at? Poor Kendal & Kylie.
> I like where Caitlyn's going with everything, (helping people to be their true self, and talking about her experiences with trans kids), but I agree with Kim that he does need to choose his words more carefully. Anyone would have a hard time with their father suddenly becoming transgender...Cait shouldn't have been spiteful & started saying negative things about Kris and the others. She just needs to think a bit more before she speaks, and then she'll have everything right in place. Just because someone isn't as fully supportive of your choices at first, doesn't mean that the best thing to do is to say negative things about them in an interview. Even if those things are honest, they are still family.
> But yanno it's a complicated subject for everyone. I think she's on the right page right now with trying to help people. It is nice that she developed a group of friends who are like her that she can count on.




Have you watched " I am Jazz " on TLC? Much better and about a transgender teen. Jazz is inspiring, not a fameho like Cait.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mcb100 said:


> I watched an episode of his show yesterday. I'm not sure if it was the most recent episode or not, but it was on the TV at the time.
> I like what Caitlyn is trying to do about helping the other trans people and their community, and giving the public knowledge about everything and what's it like to be trans, all those things. But I thought in a small way that Kim was right too. I mean can you imagine if your father called you a distraction in a world wide magazine that a lot of people were going to look at? Poor Kendal & Kylie.
> I like where Caitlyn's going with everything, (helping people to be their true self, and talking about her experiences with trans kids), but I agree with Kim that he does need to choose his words more carefully. Anyone would have a hard time with their father suddenly becoming transgender...Cait shouldn't have been spiteful & started saying negative things about Kris and the others. She just needs to think a bit more before she speaks, and then she'll have everything right in place. Just because someone isn't as fully supportive of your choices at first, doesn't mean that the best thing to do is to say negative things about them in an interview. Even if those things are honest, they are still family.
> But yanno it's a complicated subject for everyone. I think she's on the right page right now with trying to help people.* It is nice that she developed a group of friends who are like her that she can count on*.



You must have missed the part where those friends are *rent a friends.* They had to audition for the show and they're being paid.


----------



## candy2100

.


----------



## Bentley1

She needs to leave her lips alone, what's wrong with her?
In the show she can barely drink through a straw bc her lips are so stiff & over stuffed, it's disturbing.


----------



## Jayne1

Bentley1 said:


> She needs to leave her lips alone, what's wrong with her?
> In the show she can barely drink through a straw bc her lips are so stiff & over stuffed, it's disturbing.



Agree!


----------



## Vanilla Bean

Jayne1 said:


> I love Jennifer Finney Boylan she's one of the reason i watch the show.  The other Jen is quite terrific too. Very inspiring.



I agree! They are both thoughtful, direct and kind. I don't care if they had to audition or not. They elevate the content of the show, and Caitlyn is fortunate to know them.


----------



## ByeKitty

Bentley1 said:


> She needs to leave her lips alone, what's wrong with her?
> In the show she can barely drink through a straw bc her lips are so stiff & over stuffed, it's disturbing.



I agree, she looks ridiculous.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> You must have missed the part where those friends are *rent a friends.* They had to audition for the show and they're being paid.



Lol!


----------



## Encore Hermes

_ What happened to Bruce tells lies, Caitlyn doesn't (interview VF) _ 

When it comes to one of her big loves, Caitlyn Jenner can't let go of the past.
On a new episode of I Am Cait, *the 65-year-old Olympian tells assistant and friend Ronda Kamihira that she plans to apply to play at a new golf course at the Sherwood Country Club in Thousand Oaks, Calif., using her birth name, Bruce Jenner. *She has been a longtime member of the club, where the courses recently underwent renovations and which contains several separate areas for men and women.
Kamihira, who helped picked out Caitlyn's female name after she transitioned from a man to a woman earlier this year, is appalled at her decision.

"Why can't you do in fresh as 'Caitlyn?' What are you gonna do? Wear your hoodie and pretend it's not&#8212;" she begins.
"Probably," Caitlyn replies. "And then once I get out on the course, I'll take that off."

*"Let's just put 'Bruce' down and it's fine," she later says. "'Cause then I don't have to worry about locker rooms and all that crap right now, which I don't want to worry about. I'll worry about the locker rooms later on down the line."*
The club said in a statement in June that it "cherishes its members and their privacy and will not comment on anything regarding its members' private use and enjoyment of the club, including Caitlyn Jenner's future use of the club," according to The Hollywood Reporter.

http://www.eonline.com/news/692547/...-membership-as-bruce-watch-the-i-am-cait-clip


----------



## queen

Encore Hermes said:


> _ What happened to Bruce tells lies, Caitlyn doesn't (interview VF) _
> 
> When it comes to one of her big loves, Caitlyn Jenner can't let go of the past.
> On a new episode of I Am Cait, *the 65-year-old Olympian tells assistant and friend Ronda Kamihira that she plans to apply to play at a new golf course at the Sherwood Country Club in Thousand Oaks, Calif., using her birth name, Bruce Jenner. *She has been a longtime member of the club, where the courses recently underwent renovations and which contains several separate areas for men and women.
> Kamihira, who helped picked out Caitlyn's female name after she transitioned from a man to a woman earlier this year, is appalled at her decision.
> 
> "Why can't you do in fresh as 'Caitlyn?' What are you gonna do? Wear your hoodie and pretend it's not" she begins.
> "Probably," Caitlyn replies. "And then once I get out on the course, I'll take that off."
> 
> *"Let's just put 'Bruce' down and it's fine," she later says. "'Cause then I don't have to worry about locker rooms and all that crap right now, which I don't want to worry about. I'll worry about the locker rooms later on down the line."*
> The club said in a statement in June that it "cherishes its members and their privacy and will not comment on anything regarding its members' private use and enjoyment of the club, including Caitlyn Jenner's future use of the club," according to The Hollywood Reporter.
> 
> http://www.eonline.com/news/692547/...-membership-as-bruce-watch-the-i-am-cait-clip


I had not heard this.  If it is factual I find it disgusting.  Jenner wants to pick and choose whatever suits him/her.  In my opinion you can't have it both ways.  I do not need to be pc to avoid hurting the feelings of someone who cares little for anyone but them self by self proclamation.  It was stated in the show it is about her now.


----------



## Encore Hermes

queen said:


> I had not heard this. * If it is factual *I find it disgusting.  Jenner wants to pick and choose whatever suits him/her.  In my opinion you can't have it both ways.  I do not need to be pc to avoid hurting the feelings of someone who cares little for anyone but them self by self proclamation.  It was stated in the show it is about her now.



Caitlyn herself says it in the clip in the link. SMH I have no idea what she is thinking. And must be important as she is letting it air on the show.  Wait.....would cait prefer being called Bruce, or 'he' this week while the membership is going through. 

Don't want to get jumped on for using the wrong pronoun.


----------



## uhpharm01

Encore Hermes said:


> Caitlyn herself says it in the clip in the link. SMH I have no idea what she is thinking. And must be important as she is letting it air on the show.  Wait.....would cait prefer being called Bruce, or 'he' this week while the membership is going through.
> 
> Don't want to get jumped on for using the wrong pronoun.



Mmm


----------



## V0N1B2

So instead of championing equal rights for women (which she now claims to be/identifies as), she decides she wants to play as a man instead?  To get all the perks and benefits as before?  The locker room has nothing to do with it. You shower with the women, they see your dong - shower with the men, they see your boobages. 
What a c**t.

#lostmysupport, #flipflopper, #golfbunniesdontwanttoplaywithyouanyway


----------



## maddie66

queen said:


> I had not heard this.  If it is factual I find it disgusting.  Jenner wants to pick and choose whatever suits him/her.  In my opinion you can't have it both ways.  I do not need to be pc to avoid hurting the feelings of someone who cares little for anyone but them self by self proclamation.  It was stated in the show it is about her now.




I am by no means defending Caitlyn, but I wonder if this is one of those golf clubs that only lets women play at certain times and go in certain areas of the club (I think these places still exist) and she just didn't know how to deal with it?  That said, if you really identify as female then you kind of have to be prepared to take the good with the bad....


----------



## queen

Encore Hermes said:


> Caitlyn herself says it in the clip in the link. SMH I have no idea what she is thinking. And must be important as she is letting it air on the show.  Wait.....would cait prefer being called Bruce, or 'he' this week while the membership is going through.
> 
> Don't want to get jumped on for using the wrong pronoun.


Yes, I later looked at the clip and know it is factual.  I really do not care how she wishes to be addressed any more than she cares about doing the right thing regarding the golf course.  I don't want to deal with it now.  HaHa.  These people are nuts.  We are supposed to be careful to not step on her toes and she doesn't care who she steps on.  She wants to golf.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Caitlyn Jenner, Matt Lauer hit the golf course in candid new interview*



http://www.today.com/popculture/cai...r-hit-golf-course-candid-new-interview-t42346


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> I had not heard this.  If it is factual I find it disgusting.  Jenner wants to pick and choose whatever suits him/her.  In my opinion you can't have it both ways.  I do not need to be pc to avoid hurting the feelings of someone who cares little for anyone but them self by self proclamation.  It was stated in the show it is about her now.



Absolutely ridiculous if true. You live like a woman, so you accept to fall under their ridiculous rules concerning women.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Biting my tongue not to say I told you so.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Tsk. Tsk. Not surprised.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Coach Lover Too said:


> Biting my tongue not to say I told you so.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Well that was a soft bite.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

jimmyshoogirl said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> Well that was a soft bite.


----------



## Sassys

Encore Hermes said:


> _ What happened to Bruce tells lies, Caitlyn doesn't (interview VF) _
> 
> When it comes to one of her big loves, Caitlyn Jenner can't let go of the past.
> On a new episode of I Am Cait, *the 65-year-old Olympian tells assistant and friend Ronda Kamihira that she plans to apply to play at a new golf course at the Sherwood Country Club in Thousand Oaks, Calif., using her birth name, Bruce Jenner. *She has been a longtime member of the club, where the courses recently underwent renovations and which contains several separate areas for men and women.
> Kamihira, who helped picked out Caitlyn's female name after she transitioned from a man to a woman earlier this year, is appalled at her decision.
> 
> "Why can't you do in fresh as 'Caitlyn?' What are you gonna do? Wear your hoodie and pretend it's not&#8212;" she begins.
> "Probably," Caitlyn replies. "And then once I get out on the course, I'll take that off."
> 
> *"Let's just put 'Bruce' down and it's fine," she later says. "'Cause then I don't have to worry about locker rooms and all that crap right now, which I don't want to worry about. I'll worry about the locker rooms later on down the line."*
> The club said in a statement in June that it "cherishes its members and their privacy and will not comment on anything regarding its members' private use and enjoyment of the club, including Caitlyn Jenner's future use of the club," according to The Hollywood Reporter.
> 
> http://www.eonline.com/news/692547/...-membership-as-bruce-watch-the-i-am-cait-clip


 
This is so bizarre . Why would she do this? if you are going to be a woman, you are a woman 24/7. No one in LA with a car uses the locker rooms anyway; they drive home after they workout. Unlike us here in NYC, we use the locker rooms because we take public transportation after we workout or go back to work. NYC celebs never use locker rooms.


----------



## pukasonqo

Sassys said:


> This is so bizarre . Why would she do this? if you are going to be a woman, you are a woman 24/7. No one in LA with a car uses the locker rooms anyway; they drive home after they workout. Unlike us here in NYC, we use the locker rooms because we take public transportation after we workout or go back to work. NYC celebs never use locker rooms.




and caitlyn was going to be the patron sain of the LGBT community...
you cannot pick and choose your gender according to what it suits you, if you are a woman you have to learn to take the good and the bad of being one


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> *Caitlyn Jenner, Matt Lauer hit the golf course in candid new interview*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.today.com/popculture/cai...r-hit-golf-course-candid-new-interview-t42346


Could not hear the audio but I think Jenner was going for shock value to get attention for herself and the show.  Didn't work for me I just find it disgusting the waffling to whichever gets you the most attention and $$$$$$.  Any credibility Jenner had was lost when she decided to be Bruce for a day or whatever.  Nice way to treat your family and others from the trans community.


----------



## queen

maddie66 said:


> I am by no means defending Caitlyn, but I wonder if this is one of those golf clubs that only lets women play at certain times and go in certain areas of the club (I think these places still exist) and she just didn't know how to deal with it?  That said, if you really identify as female then you kind of have to be prepared to take the good with the bad....


I do believe it was predicted back in the beginning of her public transformation that the golf course may become an issue.  It was acknowledged the club she belonged to had different areas for males and females in some cases.  I believe a dining area was also mentioned as off limits for women.  Jenner knew it was coming it was part of the plan.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner has been showcasing her fashion credentials in an array of colourful outfits of late.

And on a dinner for two with her close friend Candis Cayne on Thursday night,  the 65-year-old was out to impress in a monochrome ensemble.

Wearing a Moschino black and white jacket emblazoned with the fashion house logo in large letters, she teamed it with a pair of leather trousers. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...lazoned-fashion-house-logo.html#ixzz3knxxXRE3


----------



## ForeverYoung87

The lack of butt made me laugh not used to that with Kardashian/Jenner people.


----------



## Hobbsy

He's a joke with obvious psychological issues.


----------



## chowlover2

Hobbsy said:


> He's a joke with obvious psychological issues.




Agreed! I hope he doesn't set the transgendered community back with this golf course nonsense.


----------



## redney

Has she had MORE done to her face? It is stretched as tight as a drum.


----------



## Luvbolide

queen said:


> I do believe it was predicted back in the beginning of her public transformation that the golf course may become an issue.  It was acknowledged the club she belonged to had different areas for males and females in some cases.  I believe a dining area was also mentioned as off limits for women.  Jenner knew it was coming it was part of the plan.






Agreed.  I know I mentioned more than once that I expected this outcome at the golf club, as did others.  Jenner has an unhealthy narcissistic streak and the recent constant attention and cameras isn't helping.  I don't think she cares much about women's rights or trans' rights - she wants to do what she wants and when she wants.

If she really had become more enlightened during these past months, why not start having a dialogue with the club about integrating the course and the dining areas.  Nope, she is fine with women being excluded so long as an exception is made for Bruce.  

I think this is going to get worse for her - she apparently enjoyed golfing and then eating in the segregated dining room.  It was one of her favorite pass times.  I don't know that her old all male golf buddies are necessarily going to want her around anymore.  I think it is likely to be awkward and that "just the guys" atmosphere will be gone.  I think that this is going to be the biggest thing that will slap her in the face about her new life.  

Time will tell, I guess.


----------



## Encore Hermes

I agree with luvbolide, CJ wants to do what she wants when she wants. 

Don't jump....jmo 
I think  member Jenner wants an exception  to eat in the grill with the buds but keep the status quo that ladies have another place to lunch so she will not change the current membership from BJ to CJ in hopes of it happening. 

the new membership application is for a different club, smaller 3-par Sherwood lake club, not Sherwood country club which I am _ sometimes_ Cait is already a member and the course is undergoing renovations and is closed. 
From the clip appears two clubs are tied together but require separate memberships.


----------



## lovemysavior

I don't get the leather pants with the high boots over them :/ If I would have styled that outfit, I would have chosen a Stewart Weitzman Nudist black sandal. ...just my two cents...


----------



## queen

Encore Hermes said:


> I agree with luvbolide, CJ wants to do what she wants when she wants.
> 
> Don't jump....jmo
> I think  member Jenner wants an exception  to eat in the grill with the buds but keep the status quo that ladies have another place to lunch so she will not change the current membership from BJ to CJ in hopes of it happening.
> 
> the new membership application is for a different club, smaller 3-par Sherwood lake club, not Sherwood country club which I am _ sometimes_ Cait is already a member and the course is undergoing renovations and is closed.
> From the clip appears two clubs are tied together but require separate memberships.


I am sometimes Cait, priceless.  I am going to use that for sure.  She earned it.  Does anybody know who writes the copy of how beautiful and fashionable Jenner is?  I see a 65 year old masculine built male who has had some ps, hormone therapy and wishes to be identified as a woman.  I would never comment on someone like this if they had not put them self in the public eye and proclaimed themself beautiful and asked who wore the dress best. I understand Cait wants to be interviewed to promote herself but what is Lauer's interest in this old story?  It did begin way back in the spring.  Jenner could address the issues on her show.


----------



## chowlover2

queen said:


> I am sometimes Cait, priceless.  I am going to use that for sure.  She earned it.  Does anybody know who writes the copy of how beautiful and fashionable Jenner is?  I see a 65 year old masculine built male who has had some ps, hormone therapy and wishes to be identified as a woman.  I would never comment on someone like this if they had not put them self in the public eye and proclaimed themself beautiful and asked who wore the dress best. I understand Cait wants to be interviewed to promote herself but what is Lauer's interest in this old story?  It did begin way back in the spring.  Jenner could address the issues on her show.




Totally agree with you on how masculine she looks. Particularly the arms and legs. I think she only appears feminine with Photoshop, would hate to run into her in real life. I imagine if you transition while young the more feminine you will appear. 

I imagine Jenner is doing the interview with Lauer to drum up ratings for her show, which has lost viewers every week.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

chowlover2 said:


> Totally agree with you on how masculine she looks. Particularly the arms and legs. I think she only appears feminine with Photoshop, would hate to run into her in real life. I imagine if you transition while young the more feminine you will appear.
> 
> I imagine Jenner is doing the interview with Lauer to drum up ratings for her show, which has lost viewers every week.



Why are you or anyone surprised Caitlyn still has male characteristics though? Up until recently Caitlyn identified as male. I do actually think that even when Caitlyn was identified as Bruce that there were feminine characteristics to his male features.

I think this is probably a commonality to a lot of transgender people though, it doesn't only apply to Caitlyn. The PS to soften the features is no doubt still ongoing but you also have to remember that this is someone over 60 so of course IMO any PS will be noticeable and look a little harsh.  

And unfortunately as with any of the K's - they aren't known for choosing cosmetic or plastic surgeons who know how to use a light touch.

I'm not enamoured of Caitlyn or the inherent fame grab that goes with this family, and very disappointed that it hasn't played out as more communicative about the transgender community (in fact Caitlyn's ignorance about anyone's journey but hers is mindblowing tbh) but I can understand why she may be looking the way she is.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I think Candis is gorgeous and I think BJ/CJ is a fraud. I've said it all along and I took some a** chewings over my opinion but I still stand by my convictions. 
All about the $$$$$$$.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Oh I think Caitlyn is genuine ie the transgender journey etc BUT I also think this is a privileged individual wanting their cake and eating it too - and yes that includes the grab for $$$.


----------



## queen

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Why are you or anyone surprised Caitlyn still has male characteristics though? Up until recently Caitlyn identified as male. I do actually think that even when Caitlyn was identified as Bruce that there were feminine characteristics to his male features.
> 
> I think this is probably a commonality to a lot of transgender people though, it doesn't only apply to Caitlyn. The PS to soften the features is no doubt still ongoing but you also have to remember that this is someone over 60 so of course IMO any PS will be noticeable and look a little harsh.
> 
> And unfortunately as with any of the K's - they aren't known for choosing cosmetic or plastic surgeons who know how to use a light touch.
> 
> I'm not enamoured of Caitlyn or the inherent fame grab that goes with this family, and very disappointed that it hasn't played out as more communicative about the transgender community (in fact Caitlyn's ignorance about anyone's journey but hers is mindblowing tbh) but I can understand why she may be looking the way she is.


No one expects a man to look like a woman.  It is the raving about her beauty and style that boggles the mind.  I have been around since Bruce was an Olympic champion and I would never have called him feminine.  I have no knowledge of when he took the first hormone therapy but maybe that feminized him some.  I still do not see the beauty.   I do find his treatment of others more impressive and not in a good way.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think in comparison to the rest of the K's, Caitlyn has it _all _over them in regards to dressing for her body type.

I don't think Caitlyn is a raving beauty but I also understand that there is some middle ground here for a person who may be in the process of changing.


----------



## Luvbolide

lovemysavior said:


> I don't get the leather pants with the high boots over them :/ If I would have styled that outfit, I would have chosen a Stewart Weitzman Nudist black sandal. ...just my two cents...






And a different bag...OMG...


----------



## Crystalina

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think Candis is gorgeous and I think BJ/CJ is a fraud. I've said it all along and I took some a** chewings over my opinion but I still stand by my convictions.
> All about the $$$$$$$.




100% agree!!!!!!!! [emoji106]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji106]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;[emoji106]&#127995;


----------



## queen

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think in comparison to the rest of the K's, Caitlyn has it _all _over them in regards to dressing for her body type.
> 
> I don't think Caitlyn is a raving beauty but I also understand that there is some middle ground here for a person who may be in the process of changing.


See, I am not comparing Jenner to the Kardashians.  She has publicly announced a change that she set her own timetable for. She made a big public splashy reveal.  She stands on her own merits. Were she a private citizen, who had not touted beauty and style, this would not even register on my radar.  So no, since she has had tons of help with her appearance, both medically and cosmetically, I do not think she is in the middle of changing.  She is a self proclaimed woman and she can take it like the rest of us.


----------



## twinkle.tink

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Oh I think Caitlyn is genuine ie the transgender journey etc BUT I also think this is a privileged individual wanting their cake and eating it too - and yes that includes the grab for $$$.



Yes! It's not that she doesn't want to be Cait 100%, it's just that she wants what she wants and sees no problem using what ever name will get her what she wants.


----------



## queen

Really, I don't know her personally, but it would be my guess, that ole habits die hard.  When it comes to golf, cars and copters she might just still enjoy being Bruce.  Getting the perks that went along with it probaly made life more fun.  Just my guess and you might be right.


----------



## zen1965

I don't care what she looks like. In light of the golf course debacle she has lost all credibility.


----------



## chowlover2

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Oh I think Caitlyn is genuine ie the transgender journey etc BUT I also think this is a privileged individual wanting their cake and eating it too - and yes that includes the grab for $$$.







queen said:


> No one expects a man to look like a woman.  It is the raving about her beauty and style that boggles the mind.  I have been around since Bruce was an Olympic champion and I would never have called him feminine.  I have no knowledge of when he took the first hormone therapy but maybe that feminized him some.  I still do not see the beauty.   I do find his treatment of others more impressive and not in a good way.







twinkle.tink said:


> Yes! It's not that she doesn't want to be Cait 100%, it's just that she wants what she wants and sees no problem using what ever name will get her what she wants.




Absolute agreement!


----------



## queen

zen1965 said:


> I don't care what she looks like. In light of the golf course debacle she has lost all credibility.


I think you have something there.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Caitlyn Jenner Appears in First TV Interview: 6 Things We Learned From Her 'Ellen' Appearance*


What a difference a few months make! The _Ellen DeGeneres Show_  returns from its summer hiatus and its first guest is none other than  Caitlyn Jenner in her first TV interview since sitting down with Diane  Sawyer in April.


 The world first met Caitlyn in the beginning of the summer, on June 1, when her _Vanity Fair_ cover made headlines. Since then, we've seen her here, there, and everywhere, including on her docuseries _I Am Cait_.  But this is her first sit-down and she chats with Ellen, whose own  coming out was groundbreaking, about dating (with Candis Cayne?),  whether she misses Bruce, and how her stance on marriage equality has  changed. Here are the highlights.

*1. She's not ready to date.*  Caitlyn has said that her transition wasn't motivated by a desire to  pursue new romantic relationships  and she still feels that way.  "Everybody wants to have a partner. Everybody would love to have a  family," she said on the show, which premieres Sept. 8. "For trans  people, sometimes that can be extraordinarily difficult to do and so  it's an issue thats big in the community. For me, Im at such a  different place in life. [As a father of 10], Ive kind of passed that  stage in my life. But would I like to find a partner in life to share my  life with? Yeah, Im sure I will at some point. Right now Im just very  busy  getting used to where Im at."




*2. Is her constant companion Candis Cayne a potential love interest?*  "Actually Candis is backstage," the brunette admitted of the trans  actress, "but thats a whole other deal. Candis is great. We really have  a lot a fun. Shes a beautiful woman."




*3. She doesn't miss Bruce.*  "Absolutely, no," Kris Jenner's ex replied. "Because as a woman I can  do all this fun stuff anyway. I can still play golf. I can still go race  cars."


*4**. She still uses the men's tee on the golf course.* "Dont go there!" the accomplished golfer laughed at Ellen's question. "Actually, no, I still play from the mens tees."




*5. She used to cross dress.*  Long before her transition, Caitlyn would often wear a bra and  pantyhose under her suits when she gave motivational speeches following  her success as an Olympic athlete. "I was very stealthy," Jenner  admitted. "I was good at this stuff. I would literally go back to the  hotel room, cross dress, walk out around the hotel, and they never  knew." Asked if she was ever recognized, she said, "They would never in a  billion years think that [it was me], so I never got caught."




*6. She wasn't always a proponent of marriage equality.*  Ellen brought up how Bruce was notoriously conservative and Caitlyn  said she still is in some ways. "I have to admit that I remember 15  years ago, 20 years ago, whenever it was the whole gay marriage issue  came up at first, I was not for it," she said. "I mean, Im older than  most people in the audience. I like tradition and [marriage has] always  been between a man and a woman But as time goes on  like a lot of  people on this issue  Ive really changed thinking here to: I dont  ever want to stand in front of anybodys happiness. Thats not my job.  If that word marriage is really, really that important to you, I can go  with it." When Ellen noted that Caitlyn still didn't seem completely on  board with it, she replied, "No Im on board. Its going to be pretty  much the law of the land. So I still feel like yeah, Im ok with it. I  dont want to stand in front of somebody's happiness."







See the entire interview when Season 13 of the _Ellen DeGeneres Show_ kicks off on Tuesday.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/c...t-tv-interview-ellen-degeneres-163536945.html


----------



## Jayne1

chowlover2 said:


> Totally agree with you on how masculine she looks. Particularly the arms and legs. I* think she only appears feminine with Photoshop,* would hate to run into her in real life. I imagine if you transition while young the more feminine you will appear.



Yes, the butt for sure. In photoshop, they always give her a nice, rounded behind.


----------



## Reaganh

She is decent


----------



## berrydiva

zen1965 said:


> i don't care what she looks like. In light of the golf course debacle she has lost all credibility.




+1


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Sounds like she may lose some points with the gay community too. CJ wants people to be understanding of her, yet she needs to practice what she preaches.
Can't believe she refers to herself as a traditionalist.

Jenner replied, I have to admit that I remember 15 years ago, 20 years ago, whenever it was that the whole gay marriage issue came up, I was NOT for it.
I am a traditionalist. I mean, Im older than most people in the audience. I like tradition and its always been between a man and a woman and Im thinking I dont quite get it.

 But as time goes on, like a lot of people on this issue Ive really changed thinking here, to I dont ever want to stand in front of anybodys happiness, she said. Thats not my job. Ok. If that word marriage is really, really that important to you I can go with it.

 Its funny because youre still a little not on board with it, DeGeneres hit back.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-tells-ellen-degeneres-did-not-approve-gay-marriage/


----------



## labelwhore04

I don't understand how she can be transgender but not be enthusiastic about gay marriage. Like she's a woman attracted to other women. That makes her a lesbian. That's denying _yourself_ rights, it makes no sense. If she had transitioned while she was young, would she just never "allow" herself to get married to another woman? I just don't get it.


----------



## berrydiva

He liked tradition but he wore stockings and bras under his suits. Lol


----------



## Coach Lover Too

labelwhore04 said:


> I don't understand how she can be transgender but not be enthusiastic about gay marriage. Like she's a woman attracted to other women. That makes her a lesbian. That's denying _yourself_ rights, it makes no sense. If she had transitioned while she was young, would she just never "allow" herself to get married to another woman? I just don't get it.



She gives a whole new meaning to the word hypocritical.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think Candis is gorgeous and I think BJ/CJ is a fraud. I've said it all along and I took some a** chewings over my opinion but I still stand by my convictions.
> All about the $$$$$$$.




Yup, agree coach. You took quite a beating in this thread. Some of us raised a brow at her too but you seem to take the brunt. 

I was hoping to be proved wrong. But Caitlyn kept digging herself deeper and deeper. Sad that someone who could have really made good just made a mockery of this.


----------



## zippie

Brucitlyn is a hypocrite and doesn't give a sht* about anyone but Brucitlyn.  Not his kids, friends, gays or real transgenders!  It's all about Brucitlyn, wants it both ways depending on what is good for Brucitlyn.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Yup, agree coach. You took quite a beating in this thread. Some of us raised a brow at her too but you seem to take the brunt.
> 
> I was hoping to be proved wrong. But Caitlyn kept digging herself deeper and deeper. Sad that someone who could have really made good just made a mockery of this.




Yea, my BS meter went off a long time ago but it looks like CJ is finally showin' her true colors after all.


----------



## mcb100

I'm all for trans people--   But I'm starting to think that Caitlyn doesn't know what the heck she is. Okay so she always knew all those years that she was supposed to be a woman, and the whole time she was against gay marriage? That would upset me if I were trans and she was a good friend of mine. And then the whole golf course thing--Really. It's seriously like she doesn't know--she's neither here or there, almost like she doesn't want to be a man anymore, but she's not fully committed to being a woman--she just seems so in between with everything. It doesn't make sense. Either accept being trans and fully embrace your womanhood and be in the same community/group (LGT) as gays, or go back to being a man and having all the same rights on the golf course and places like you used to. She seems so on the fence.....


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Or she is realizing all the benefits a white male gets in society for the simple fact of being a white male. It can be an adjustment to suddenly have your entire worth be based on how you look and have your appearance being scrutinized daily. She probably didn't quite get all of that. 

I'm still not going to call someone a hypocrite who has changed their whole lifestyle and is getting used to being viewed differently. If I'm wrong and a year from now, CJ goes back to Bruce then I can admit I was wrong. 

But being in the adolescent stage she is in means getting comfortable in your own skin and she probably isn't yet.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I can't believe she's not more enthusiastic about gay rights, and at one point was even against it, despite the fact that she's transgender. It's hard for her to shake off the white male privilege and have empathy for others I guess.


----------



## floatinglili

Coach Lover Too said:


> Sounds like she may lose some points with the gay community too. CJ wants people to be understanding of her, yet she needs to practice what she preaches.
> Can't believe she refers to herself as a traditionalist.
> 
> Jenner replied, I have to admit that I remember 15 years ago, 20 years ago, whenever it was that the whole gay marriage issue came up, I was NOT for it.
> I am a traditionalist. I mean, Im older than most people in the audience. I like tradition and its always been between a man and a woman and Im thinking I dont quite get it.
> 
> But as time goes on, like a lot of people on this issue Ive really changed thinking here, to I dont ever want to stand in front of anybodys happiness, she said. Thats not my job. Ok. If that word marriage is really, really that important to you I can go with it.
> 
> Its funny because youre still a little not on board with it, DeGeneres hit back.
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-tells-ellen-degeneres-did-not-approve-gay-marriage/




I actually appreciate Caitlyn in this because she is honest. Remember the incredible backlash against dolce and gabbana when they dared have an out-of-gay-step opinion on the importance of biological mothers for the children of gay men?
It is really important that gay and trans (and 'women' and 'ethno-racial groups' and every other type of grouping of people) not be lumped into a single homogenous mass politically, when nuances in the discussion are so necessary for a well thought out public conversation. There does seem an awful lot of pressure within the community to fall in step with a dominant political position.


----------



## floatinglili

Dallas_Girl said:


> Or she is realizing all the benefits a white male gets in society for the simple fact of being a white male. It can be an adjustment to suddenly have your entire worth be based on how you look and have your appearance being scrutinized daily. She probably didn't quite get all of that.
> 
> I'm still not going to call someone a hypocrite who has changed their whole lifestyle and is getting used to being viewed differently. If I'm wrong and a year from now, CJ goes back to Bruce then I can admit I was wrong.
> 
> But being in the adolescent stage she is in means getting comfortable in your own skin and she probably isn't yet.




Bruce was not an every day ordinary 'white male'. Tbh writing his success and comfort down to the fact he was male, and white, is an extraordinarily long bow. He was an extraordinarily successful person, accorded a lot more privilege than most 'white males'.


----------



## floatinglili

Coach Lover Too said:


> She gives a whole new meaning to the word hypocritical.




The whole nature of the journey of life is that it is not all obvious and figured out from the very start. I can't honestly write Bruce and then Caitlyn off as hypocritical simply because he was feeling his way.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

BJ/CJ seems to think it's her world and we just happen to live in it.
*Don't do as I do, do as I say* mentality.


----------



## Crystalina

Coach Lover Too said:


> BJ/CJ seems to think it's her world and we just happen to live in it.
> *Don't do as I do, do as I say* mentality.




Exactly! It's hard for me to listen to "Caitlyn's" BS anymore. "She" is such a hypocrite!

Also, I think Candis Cayne is totally using "Caitlyn."


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Funny how there's no talk about Candis being a famehoe just her being beautiful and how she seems to have a good head. Meanwhile she's doing a ton of pap strolls and giving interviews left and right about her relationship with Caitlyn. Caitlyn isn't the only one being a hypocrite


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Funny how there's no talk about Candis being a famehoe just her being beautiful and how she seems to have a good head. Meanwhile she's doing a ton of pap strolls and giving interviews left and right about her relationship with Caitlyn. Caitlyn isn't the only one being a hypocrite



Candis is being paid. Maybe CJ should have picked a more low keyed and subdued person to be her bestie when the auditions took place.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Candis is an actress on the show and she is attracted to men.


----------



## Sasha2012

In an upcoming interview with Ellen DeGeneres, transgender reality star Caitlyn Jenner candidly confessed she hopes to find love again.

But on Friday night, the 65-year-old former Olympian was more than happy to have dinner with her friend Buzz Bissinger.

Leaving upmarket Italian restaurant Mangia in Malibu, the 6ft 2in star was spotted towering over the leather-clad writer as they made their way out of the eatery.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ng-s-open-dating-men-women.html#ixzz3kt8ghGpN


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> Candis is being paid. Maybe CJ should have picked a more low keyed and subdued person to be her bestie when the auditions took place.



And wasn't Caitlyn getting paid to do this one of your qualms. You in particular harped on it a lot. If you're going to come for one might was well come for all


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## maddie66

floatinglili said:


> The whole nature of the journey of life is that it is not all obvious and figured out from the very start. I can't honestly write Bruce and then Caitlyn off as hypocritical simply because he was feeling his way.




I agree with this.  I would imagine the experience is different for each person making the transition, and it is probably even more difficult to change your view on life when you're in your 60s and have led a very privileged, self-focused existence.  Caitlyn may learn and grow, she may not.  But I kind of think the twists and turns and inconsistencies and flubs will be especially pronounced at first and probably are for anyone who has been through this process.

The fact that she is profiting financially from her journey is what makes it seem so inauthentic to people.  Not sure she had a choice to stay out of the spotlight given the family she is in or given Bruce's own past, but it still makes everything seem like it is staged for the camera.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> And wasn't Caitlyn getting paid to do this one of your qualms. You in particular harped on it a lot. If you're going to come for one might was well come for all



Yes and she was upfront about it, unlike CJ who still can't decide what she wants to be or do.

They should change the name of the show to *I am.....I dunno who I am.*


----------



## floatinglili

maddie66 said:


> I agree with this.  I would imagine the experience is different for each person making the transition, and it is probably even more difficult to change your view on life when you're in your 60s and have led a very privileged, self-focused existence.  Caitlyn may learn and grow, she may not.  But I kind of think the twists and turns and inconsistencies and flubs will be especially pronounced at first and probably are for anyone who has been through this process.
> 
> The fact that she is profiting financially from her journey is what makes it seem so inauthentic to people.  Not sure she had a choice to stay out of the spotlight given the family she is in or given Bruce's own past, but it still makes everything seem like it is staged for the camera.




Interesting  I was slightly cynical of the television show at first I have to admit (I am a big reality TV fan but not a die-hard Kardashian viewer). I think Caitlyn is 'doing good' with this television show and in fact is making a huge impact in a positive sense for the transgender community in terms of wider social understanding and acceptance. 
Also how else was Caitlyn to 'take control' of the media circus if not through a TV show of her own?


----------



## BrandSnob

labelwhore04 said:


> I don't understand how she can be transgender but not be enthusiastic about gay marriage. Like she's a woman attracted to other women. That makes her a lesbian. That's denying _yourself_ rights, it makes no sense. If she had transitioned while she was young, would she just never "allow" herself to get married to another woman? I just don't get it.




Forgive me if anything I say in the following isn't PC, Im not at all pc and I'm not quite sure how to phrase this:

I watch the I Am Cait Show occasionally and from it I got the feeling that that CJ had some kind of negative feelings about gay people based on her aversion of the questions everyone kept asking her about who she'd date. As a man Bruce was attracted
To women but if he was always a woman on the inside then isn't he a lesbian? So it would natural follow as candis said that Cait likes women.But I feel like he has a problem admitting that he's gay from his past traditionalist views. Then she finally says she appreciates The male form and that being with a man would make her feel like a real woman, but I felt that she was reluctant to admit this since that Could mean she always felt that way and so when he was a man he was gay too. Or bicurious or something idk. And that also kinda makes me think that she doesn't want to think of herself as gay and so that's why she's Moving onto men now. Furthermore she kinda made a big deal about the fact that as Bruce he was never with a man sexually.


----------



## veyda

Look at how that Buzz Bissinger person is dressed.


----------



## lovemysavior

There was a guy on Botched that was like Cait. He wanted to have boobs and dressed like a woman at one point, but then had them removed because he still had his private part and also enjoyed dressing as a guy. He said he liked to have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Sassys

BrandSnob said:


> Forgive me if anything I say in the following isn't PC, Im not at all pc and I'm not quite sure how to phrase this:
> 
> I watch the I Am Cait Show occasionally and from it I got the feeling that that CJ had some kind of negative feelings about gay people based on her aversion of the questions everyone kept asking her about who she'd date. As a man Bruce was attracted
> To women but if he was always a woman on the inside then isn't he a lesbian? So it would natural follow as candis said that Cait likes women.But I feel like he has a problem admitting that he's gay from his past traditionalist views. Then she finally says she appreciates The male form and that being with a man would make her feel like a real woman, but I felt that she was reluctant to admit this since that Could mean she always felt that way and so when he was a man he was gay too. Or bicurious or something idk. And that also kinda makes me think that she doesn't want to think of herself as gay and so that's why she's Moving onto men now. Furthermore she kinda made a big deal about the fact that as Bruce he was never with a man sexually.





When did she move onto men?


----------



## BrandSnob

Sassys said:


> When did she move onto men?




She's not dating at all right now but on the episode that aired Sunday admitted that she Could appreciate the male form and would Feel like a real woman if with a man and something about how she could be with a man, which she had previously never before admitted when questioned so candis and everyone just assumed she's attracted to women since that's all she's ever dated


----------



## Jikena

I'm ashamed for saying this but... In this last set of pics... all I see is Bruce with a wig/longer hair. :x


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## Coach Lover Too

I'm trying to figure out what that Buzz guy's looking at in that first pic!


----------



## chowlover2

I think CJ was fooling herself when she said she went out dressed as a woman after her speaking engagements. ( prior to transitioning ) I look at her now with all of the surgeries, and still see Bruce. 

What interests me is what the male members of her golf club think of this and what the board is going to do with Cait. Will she be relegated to the women's course or will she be able to play on the men's course?


----------



## ByeKitty

BrandSnob said:


> She's not dating at all right now but on the episode that aired Sunday admitted that she Could appreciate the male form and would Feel like a real woman if with a man and something about how she could be with a man, which she had previously never before admitted when questioned so candis and everyone just assumed she's attracted to women since that's all she's ever dated



Ah yes, she was always a "conservative" and I'm sure it takes a long time for some to change views on topics such as gay marriage, etc. The political beliefs of her and her environment may also be why it took so long for her to come out as transgender. I like her honesty regarding this TBH. What gender she's attracted to physically may change during the hormone treatment.


----------



## lizmil

Coach Lover Too said:


> BJ/CJ seems to think it's her world and we just happen to live in it.
> *Don't do as I do, do as I say* mentality.



I was thinking "Don't do as I do, do as I say" as well.

Applies to celebs a lot...make the planet green, but water MY lawn  obsessively or fly around in a private jet, while expecting everyone else to conserve.   Applies to "regular"  non-celeb folks too.


----------



## mcb100

I just want to say that Candis is really well done, props to her. If you don't watch the show and you don't know of her, she looks like a real woman (and what I mean by that is not that trans people aren't "real woman" but I mean everyday woman who have not ever transitioned before.) in most scenes.


 Caitlyn, I think could have looked better facially as a woman had not she not gotten so much plastic surgery when she was a guy. Certain angles of her face are just like eeepp, either too much PS or PS done wrong, and she had that same look as Bruce, so it probably just carries over...I have posted that I do think sometimes that she doesn't know what she wants to be and tries to choose being a woman but having the same rights as a man (golf course), and I do think that maybe she is not used to giving public interviews like the rest of the K's/Jenner's are, and that she needs to think before she speaks and choose her words more carefully (calling Kendall & Kylie distractions), but I think she's a good person at heart who is just trying to make a big change publicly.   You can also see how certain members of the trans group on the show kind of resent her because she has had a lot of success, money, and opportunities that say, the regular trans person hasn't had. With her money, she was able to transition physically (not emotionally), quicker than most everyday trans people.


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## blackkitty4378

In her case, I think she was repressed and had an attitude of "If I can't be who I am no one else can either." All there is to it IMO.


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## Dallas_Girl

I'm so confused, did everyone think Bruce was suddenly look like a completely different person at his age. The younger you transition, the easier it is to look like the other gender. He is still transitioning too. It's not an overnight process, hence why the term transition is used.


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## mcb100

^I know it's a slow transition but I'm just saying that her face (even as a guy) has had a lot of sharp ridges to it (versus a softer look) and I think her face will almost stay the same...Can't see her having more PS done after it went wrong. Her face had sharp edges as a guy, but it seems more  off now because woman are naturally expected to look softer sometimes. Also the sun damage & the damage from smoking. I'm not saying she doesn't look okay as a woman (because facially she looked the same as she did as a guy right now. Don't think she changed much about the face), I'm just saying had Caitlyn made different choices in life (before she transitioned) with the PS, the sun, the smoking, she could have looked better.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> And wasn't Caitlyn getting paid to do this one of your qualms. You in particular harped on it a lot. If you're going to come for one might was well come for all



By the way, I'm sorry you were held against your will here while I *harped on the subject.*


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## Coach Lover Too

I also don't believe for a minute that BJ, after giving a speaking engagement, would then dress as a female, go out in public and no one notice. Either it didn't happen, or people chatted among themselves. At the height (and weight at the time) it would be hard not to notice. 
Wasn't it reported that someone was threatening to out him back then, and that reporter was paid off?


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> By the way, I'm sorry you were held against your will here while I *harped on the subject.*



Didn't you already respond to this comment. 24 hrs later adding another comment ....okay. I wasn't complaining about you harping just pointing out the hypocrisy. Chaz and Candis are better role models yet both profit both participated in reality shows. Cait is a mess but the other two are guilty of the same things she did. Did anyone check where their money got donated? No one forced you to watch Keeping Up/Iam Cait yet here you are despite hating them with a passion so....


----------



## horse17

Jikena said:


> I'm ashamed for saying this but... In this last set of pics... all I see is Bruce with a wig/longer hair. :x


why are you ashamed?....she looks the same to me..


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Didn't you already respond to this comment. 24 hrs later adding another comment ....okay. I wasn't complaining about you harping just pointing out the hypocrisy. Chaz and Candis are better role models yet both profit both participated in reality shows. Cait is a mess but the other two are guilty of the same things she did. Did anyone check where their money got donated? *No one forced you to watch Keeping Up/Iam Cait yet here you are despite hating them with a passion so....*




It's cheap entertainment, just like everything else on E network.

If I had made negative comments towards Chaz and/or Candis, I would have been accused of being anti-transgender so either way there would have been a complaint from you. Have a great day.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Coach Lover Too said:


> I also don't believe for a minute that BJ, after giving a speaking engagement, would then dress as a female, go out in public and no one notice. Either it didn't happen, or people chatted among themselves. At the height (and weight at the time) it would be hard not to notice.
> *Wasn't it reported that someone was threatening to out him back then, and that reporter was paid off?*



The story about what happened in the 80s is in this article and it is a good read. I was going to post it when it came out but with all the yelling in this thread at that time I figured it would get passed up. 


*The Secret PR Strategy Behind Caitlyn Jenner&#8217;s Transition*

.........According to reports, Bruce Jenner hired Nierob during the 1980s and Nierob helped Jener at a &#8220;moment of crisis&#8221; when a reporter for the New York Times discovered that Bruce Jenner was a cross dresser...........

http://www.projectcasting.com/news/alan-nierob-caitlyn-jenner/


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## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> The story about what happened in the 80s is in this article and it is a good read. I was going to post it when it came out but with all the yelling in this thread at that time I figured it would get passed up.
> 
> 
> *The Secret PR Strategy Behind Caitlyn Jenners Transition*
> 
> .........According to reports, Bruce Jenner hired Nierob during the 1980s and Nierob helped Jener at a moment of crisis when a reporter for the New York Times discovered that Bruce Jenner was a cross dresser...........
> 
> http://www.projectcasting.com/news/alan-nierob-caitlyn-jenner/



Thanks for posting the link. I remember reading about it, I just couldn't remember where.


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## Encore Hermes

Coach Lover Too said:


> Thanks for posting the link. I remember reading about it, I just couldn't remember where.



After that scare in the 80s that clearly would of destroyed his career and he knew it, I find it really hard to believe that Bruce would check in to a hotel and give his motivational speech (probably at same hotel), then go upstairs and put on a dress and makeup to walk  around same hotel around the same conference people. Too risky imo and I think Cait is embellishing.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> [/B]
> 
> It's cheap entertainment, just like everything else on E network.
> 
> If I had made negative comments towards Chaz and/or Candis, I would have been accused of being anti-transgender so either way there would have been a complaint from you. Have a great day.



Only complaints from me when you make transphobic comments. Have good weekend


----------



## labelwhore04

BrandSnob said:


> She's not dating at all right now but on the episode that aired Sunday admitted that she Could appreciate the male form and would Feel like a real woman if with a man and something about how she could be with a man, which she had previously never before admitted when questioned so candis and everyone just assumed she's attracted to women since that's all she's ever dated



I think what she really meant with that statement was that she just wanted men to be attracted to her and view her as a born-woman, instead of just seeing her as a man dressed up as a woman. I think she was saying that male attention would make her feel like a "real" woman and validate her, not that she's actually attracted to men and would date one.


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## queen

Encore Hermes said:


> After that scare in the 80s that clearly would of destroyed his career and he knew it, I find it really hard to believe that Bruce would check in to a hotel and give his motivational speech (probably at same hotel), then go upstairs and put on a dress and makeup to walk  around same hotel around the same conference people. Too risky imo and I think Cait is embellishing.


I doubt he was wearing a bra under his suit either.  I believe he said he was.  I think he just makes up anything that suits at the time.  Since I think Caitlyn still looks masculine and you can tell she is trans I do not think he could have wondered around without attracting attention.  I heard him say he did this in the Sawyer interview and found it a bit hard to believe.  I am not in to publicly criticizing others but Jenner opens herself up for it.


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## Coach Lover Too

I don't think BJ/CJ has been honest a day in her life. Then or now.


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## queen

ByeKitty said:


> Ah yes, she was always a "conservative" and I'm sure it takes a long time for some to change views on topics such as gay marriage, etc. The political beliefs of her and her environment may also be why it took so long for her to come out as transgender. I like her honesty regarding this TBH. What gender she's attracted to physically may change during the hormone treatment.


Is the conservative comment real or are you funning?  I ask because I wonder how Jenner could ever be considered conservative.  I heard Bruce say in the interview he was ********** and went to church but I have always found that hard to believe.  I admit I do not know the answer but I do not see how he could have married KKJ and been a part of that family and be conservative.


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## queen

labelwhore04 said:


> I think what she really meant with that statement was that she just wanted men to be attracted to her and view her as a born-woman, instead of just seeing her as a man dressed up as a woman. I think she was saying that male attention would make her feel like a "real" woman and validate her, not that she's actually attracted to men and would date one.


Wow, why would men not see her as a man dressing as a woman since that is what is happening.  Am I missing something, is the penis gone.  How fair is it to expect straight guys to be attracted to you and find you have a penis?  And is her being validated worth the men being surprised to find the penis?  I do not think there is much chance a guy is not going to know who she is since she has certainly put it out there and hired someone to make it as profitable as could be.  Why don't I feel sorry for her?


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> I don't think BJ/CJ has been honest a day in her life. Then or now.


bingo!


----------



## QueenLouis

labelwhore04 said:


> I think what she really meant with that statement was that she just wanted men to be attracted to her and view her as a born-woman, instead of just seeing her as a man dressed up as a woman. I think she was saying that male attention would make her feel like a "real" woman and validate her, not that she's actually attracted to men and would date one.




WOW! That is the worst thing I've ever heard. Either born women or trans women seeking validation from male attention in order to feel attractive or like a real woman. Just no! No woman should ever need that!


----------



## Jikena

queen said:


> Wow, why would men not see her as a man dressing as a woman since that is what is happening.  Am I missing something, is the penis gone.  How fair is it to expect straight guys to be attracted to you and find you have a penis?  And is her being validated worth the men being surprised to find the penis?  I do not think there is much chance a guy is not going to know who she is since she has certainly put it out there and hired someone to make it as profitable as could be.  Why don't I feel sorry for her?



Oh my god.


----------



## queen

Jikena said:


> Oh my god.


That was a response to someone else's comment.  In my world people don't hire pr to make a situation the most profitable nor want men to be attracted to them while they still have male junk.  Sorry that makes you say huh and roll your eyes but I'll get over it.


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> Is the conservative comment real or are you funning?  I ask because I wonder how Jenner could ever be considered conservative.  I heard Bruce say in the interview he was ********** and went to church but I have always found that hard to believe.  I admit I do not know the answer but I do not see how he could have married KKJ and been a part of that family and be conservative.



Oh I was being serious! By conservative I mean **********. There are millions of **********s out there... voting behavior doesn't tell us much about how the voters behave  It's merely about "beliefs".


----------



## Florasun

veyda said:


> Look at how that Buzz Bissinger person is dressed.



A few years ago he wrote an interesting article about being a shopaholic., 
http://www.gq.com/story/buzz-bissinger-shopaholic-gucci-addiction


----------



## DC-Cutie

Cait is saying she's sad Khris wasn't there for her at the espy's. But I though cait didn't invite any of the ex-wives. 

So what's she sad about?


----------



## schadenfreude

I'm not even really sure how I stumbled across this, but I'll leave this here for any CJ/BJ fans with a few bucks to spare:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bruce-Caitlyn-Jenner-/141762554577?hash=item2101b4ead1


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## veyda

Florasun said:


> A few years ago he wrote an interesting article about being a shopaholic.,
> http://www.gq.com/story/buzz-bissinger-shopaholic-gucci-addiction


Whoa, leather fetishist. Rock on you sexy  Terminator. 

Thanks Florasun for a good read.


----------



## queen

ByeKitty said:


> Oh I was being serious! By conservative I mean **********. There are millions of **********s out there... voting behavior doesn't tell us much about how the voters behave  It's merely about "beliefs".


I see you are in Europe.  I am in the States and in my opinion not all **********s are conservative.  I do not equate **********s conservative although they can be.  To me they are political parties and people in those parties embrace all levels of conservative and liberal ideas about a lot of things. One can be a conservative ******** or one can be a liberal **********.  People choose a party for a variety of reasons.  It is not my intent to make this a political discussion I am just trying to understand your original comment.  Thanks for explaining.  If Jenner is **********, as I heard him state, I would think him a liberal ********** but that is just my opinion.


----------



## tweegy

schadenfreude said:


> I'm not even really sure how I stumbled across this, but I'll leave this here for any CJ/BJ fans with a few bucks to spare:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bruce-Caitlyn-Jenner-/141762554577?hash=item2101b4ead1



*Dead*

You owe me a cawfee missy..


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> I see you are in Europe.  I am in the States and in my opinion not all **********s are conservative.  I do not equate **********s conservative although they can be.  To me they are political parties and people in those parties embrace all levels of conservative and liberal ideas about a lot of things. One can be a conservative ******** or one can be a liberal **********.  People choose a party for a variety of reasons.  It is not my intent to make this a political discussion I am just trying to understand your original comment.  Thanks for explaining.  If Jenner is **********, as I heard him state, I would think him a liberal ********** but that is just my opinion.



Oh I'm sure there are some liberal **********s out there, with political parties as big as the GOP it's impossible not to have many wings... But truth is most **********s refer to themselves as being "conservative". Now whether they really _are_ is a whole other discussion.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

schadenfreude said:


> I'm not even really sure how I stumbled across this, but I'll leave this here for any CJ/BJ fans with a few bucks to spare:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bruce-Caitlyn-Jenner-/141762554577?hash=item2101b4ead1


----------



## coconutsboston

I was shocked to hear her say on Ellen that she used to disagree with gay marriage.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

coconutsboston said:


> I was shocked to hear her say on Ellen that she used to disagree with gay marriage.




I know many people who used to be against gay marriage that now are for it. People do change and grow.


----------



## sdkitty

ByeKitty said:


> Oh I was being serious! By conservative I mean **********. There are millions of **********s out there... voting behavior doesn't tell us much about how the voters behave  It's merely about "beliefs".


yes, I know people who are conservative in terms of politics but drink, do recreational drugs, etc.


----------



## V0N1B2

coconutsboston said:


> I was shocked to hear her say on Ellen that she used to disagree with gay marriage.


Used to?    I didn't specifically hear Caitlyn say she was pro same-sex marriage.  
What I heard her say was that she didn't want to stand in someone's way of happiness or some other Oprah-ism bullsh!t mumbojumbo.  What was it she said? "I'm okay with it?"  That's not really an endorsement as far as I'm concerned.

How you can be a cross-dresser in the 80s-90s and begin the transition to female with hormones etc and not believe in/support LGBT rights is beyond me. 

I'm a traditionalist too, I guess, but I believe in equal rights for every man, woman and child on this planet.
#TEAMHUMAN


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Not every  L/G/B person supports or understands transgender people either. Minorities should support one another but I'm not shocked that not everyone is united. 

Her comment was a bit condescending and I'm glad Ellen picked up on it and didn't let that go


----------



## coconutsboston

V0N1B2 said:


> Used to?    I didn't specifically hear Caitlyn say she was pro same-sex marriage.
> What I heard her say was that she didn't want to stand in someone's way of happiness or some other Oprah-ism bullsh!t mumbojumbo.  What was it she said? "I'm okay with it?"  That's not really an endorsement as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> How you can be a cross-dresser in the 80s-90s and begin the transition to female with hormones etc and not believe in/support LGBT rights is beyond me.
> 
> I'm a traditionalist too, I guess, but I believe in equal rights for every man, woman and child on this planet.
> #TEAMHUMAN


She never was forthright with it.  My brain kind of stopped after the comment was made and I wasn't sure if she did indeed continue skirting the issue or had at some point made a redemption effort.  I was thinking like you - how could her dalliance with cross-dressing lend such a myopic mindset (that quite frankly is still perpetuating itself with her not knowing any of the LGBT issues today) that she would not herself agree with gay marriage on any level.  

I completely agree with you - equal rights for everyone.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I don't expect everyone part of a minority group, like transgender people, for example, to advocate for rights of similar groups or even their own group just because that person is transgender. It's just that Caitlyn has stated several times that she wants to be a voice for transgender people. Gay rights, while not the same, are practically in the same category (LGBT) so it really doesn't make sense to me why someone why someone wouldn't support such a similar cause.

And then to claim to have "traditional" values as an excuse really makes me  Caitlyn, you are not traditional! Being transgender is not "traditional." It seems to me that all you care about is cherry-picking what "traditional" values you want to believe in order to suit yourself&#8230;

I think that someone with even somewhat of a conscience, who's capable of self-reflection, would have even a little cognitive dissonance with such conflicting beliefs. I think when she was Bruce she was a narcissist and now that she's Caitlyn, she's still a narcissist.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

I think you would be surprised the sectors of the lgtb community that don't get along. Just because society lumps them together doesn't mean they do.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Right. I acknowledged that when I said that just because someone is a member of a certain group doesn't make them an advocate for equal rights in any sense. All I'm saying in Caitlyn has outright said that she wants to advocate for transgender rights, so I'm really surprised at the apathy towards gay rights, and even more confused at the claim of being "traditional." I think she was repressed and jealous and had the attitude of "If I can't be who I am, then no one can."


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> I think you would be surprised the sectors of the lgtb community that don't get along. Just because society lumps them together doesn't mean they do.



Do you know anyone who advocates for gay rights but is against transgender rights and vice versa? I'm genuinely curious because I know and have only heard of people who advocate for LGBT rights across the board.

I know plenty of people who are LGBT who couldn't care less about rights for their own particular section of LGBT, let alone other sections of it. Those people in particular, remind me more of Caitlyn. The problem I have with Caitlyn is she claimed that she was going to do a lot of activism for transgender rights in the first place. I honestly don't understand how someone could be pro-transgender and against gay people or gay rights. My mind can't think of a logical explanation other than repression.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

blackkitty4378 said:


> Do you know anyone who advocates for gay rights but is against transgender rights and vice versa? I'm genuinely curious because I know and have only heard of people who advocate for LGBT rights across the board.
> 
> I know plenty of people who are LGBT who couldn't care less about rights for their own particular section of LGBT, let alone other sections of it. Those people in particular, remind me more of Caitlyn. The problem I have with Caitlyn is she claimed that she was going to do a lot of activism for transgender rights in the first place. I honestly don't understand how someone could be pro-transgender and against gay people or gay rights. My mind can't think of a logical explanation other than repression.




Yes I've seen and talked with lesbians who wouldn't want a transgendered (male to female) in the same locker room/bathroom as them. As one example. 

I've seen gay men talk about their dislike of lesbians. There are many different groups of gay men and not all of them get along. 

Not all transgendered people see themselves as gay. And it is possible for them to still hold on to conservative ideas on marriage. 

You can't lump an entire group of people together and think they will all feel the same way on things.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> Yes I've seen and talked with lesbians who wouldn't want a transgendered (male to female) in the same locker room/bathroom as them. As one example.
> 
> I've seen gay men talk about their dislike of lesbians. There are many different groups of gay men and not all of them get along.
> 
> Not all transgendered people see themselves as gay. And it is possible for them to still hold on to conservative ideas on marriage.
> 
> You can't lump an entire group of people together and think they will all feel the same way on things.



You seem to have missed my point. I, like you, have been acquainted with plenty of people, particularly gay people, who don't like this or that about another sect of LGBT. I was particularly asking about activism. Do those people _advocate_ for gay rights while not wanting to give those same equal rights for other sections of LGBT?

There's plenty of people who don't just want equal rights for themselves, and want them for other people, too, and that's something I can understand. I'd like to think that's the majority of the people, and that's why LGBT are frequently lumped together because they have similar struggles, not just because it's convenient.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

blackkitty4378 said:


> You seem to have missed my point. I, like you, have been acquainted with plenty of people, particularly gay people, who don't like this or that about another sect of LGBT. I was particularly asking about activism. Do those people _advocate_ for gay rights while not wanting to give those same equal rights for other sections of LGBT?



And I think the point in my initial statement was missed. 

I feel people have an allowance to be human and make mistakes and learn and grow. I don't expect people to be perfect. At some point in our lives, we are all hypocritical. 


I can go into a whole debate on lumping people together but that is for another time and place.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> And I think the point in my initial statement was missed.
> 
> I feel people have an allowance to be human and make mistakes and learn and grow. I don't expect people to be perfect. At some point in our lives, we are all hypocritical.
> 
> 
> I can go into a whole debate on lumping people together but that is for another time and place.



I'm sorry that you feel as though I'm "lumping people together." It's not my intention, and I've tried to make it known that I understand that not everyone in the LGBT feels the same way about each other but I think that point keeps getting missed. I was talking about activism and it seems to me like you are avoiding answering my question.

There's nothing wrong with being hypocritical, I just think it would be something that someone would want to avoid, or feel sorry for or admit they were wrong. I don't think it sends a good message to say "Hey, accept me as a human being, even though I'm transgender, and some people have a problem with that, but those other human beings who love someone of the same sex? Ehh. I'm kind of more 'traditional' when it comes to that."

Caitlyn has outright said that she wants to do things to help transgender people, so that's the only reason why I'm criticizing her.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

blackkitty4378 said:


> I'm sorry that you feel as though I'm "lumping people together." It's not my intention, and I've tried to make it known that I understand that not everyone in the LGBT feels the same way about each other but I think that point keeps getting missed. I was talking about activism and it seems to me like you are avoiding answering my question.
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with being hypocritical, I just think it would be something that someone would want to avoid, or feel sorry for or admit they were wrong. I don't think it sends a good message to say "Hey, accept me as a human being, even though I'm transgender, and some people have a problem with that, but those other human beings who love someone of the same sex? Ehh. I'm kind of more 'traditional' when it comes to that."
> 
> 
> 
> Caitlyn has outright said that she wants to do things to help transgender people, so that's the only reason why I'm criticizing her.




I can't answer your question because I personally don't know every advocate for the lgtb community (it's kinda impossible to). So I'm not sure how you really want me to answer your question. 

I think Caitlynn is still figuring everything out and isn't going to be the perfect advocate right now. She is still figuring herself out. I'm just simply saying give her room to breath and grow. A year from now, things she thinks and feels may be completely different.


----------



## skarsbabe

schadenfreude said:


> I'm not even really sure how I stumbled across this, but I'll leave this here for any CJ/BJ fans with a few bucks to spare:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bruce-Caitlyn-Jenner-/141762554577?hash=item2101b4ead1



A FEW bucks?! LOL! Even the biggest fan wouldn't pay that I'm sure! Too bizarre!


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> *I can't answer your question because I personally don't know every advocate for the lgtb community (it's kinda impossible to).* So I'm not sure how you really want me to answer your question.
> 
> I think Caitlynn is still figuring everything out and isn't going to be the perfect advocate right now. She is still figuring herself out. I'm just simply saying give her room to breath and grow. A year from now, things she thinks and feels may be completely different.



I asked if you knew ANYONE who advocated for one side of LGBT rights against the other. I clearly don't expect you to know everyone. I thought that was kind of a given...


----------



## Dallas_Girl

blackkitty4378 said:


> I asked if you knew ANYONE who advocated for one side of LGBT rights against the other. I clearly don't expect you to know everyone. I thought that was kind of a given...




An advocate is someone who just says they are in support of something. Are you referring to activist? Because I know tons of advocates that are in support of gay marriage but not transgender. Or people o advocating for being your true self but not wanting biblical marriage redefined. 

Do I know any activist that start protest or leading lawsuits or challenging the status qui through the courtroom - that answer would currently be no.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> *An advocate is someone who just says they are in support of something. Are you referring to activist?* Because I know tons of advocates that are in support of gay marriage but not transgender. Or people o advocating for being your true self but not wanting biblical marriage redefined.
> 
> Do I know any activist that start protest or leading lawsuits or challenging the status qui through the courtroom - that answer would currently be no.



I'd consider advocate and activist interchangeable&#8230; because I wouldn't really consider Caitlyn an activist but more of an advocate since she's more publicly stating support of things and not really attending protests, if you know what I mean&#8230;

I don't think anyone is asking for *biblical* marriage to be redefined. I've never heard anyone in support of gay marriage say that, but that's not a topic we can discuss here&#8230;

Thanks for answering my question. I have another one, if you don't mind me asking. The gay and lesbian people that you've met that aren't supportive of transgender people, what usually are their reasons, if they give any? Is it just not wanting to share a bathroom or is there anything else that they have a problem with?


----------



## berrydiva

An activist is just an advocate for social, political, environmental change.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

There is a difference between advocate and activist. They both have a common goal, yes, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing, not to sound harsh but you can google it. 

Opponents of gay marriage say they don't want biblical marriage redefined. And if you haven't heard that argument used, I really don't know what to say. It is one of the main reasons why people oppose same sex marriage. 

I am not a psychologist and didn't deeply analyze why certain people feel the way they do about other groups is clouded in the broad lgtb umbrella. I merely was saying that not everyone thinks alike and pointing that fact out.


----------



## Docjeun

All I've got is he's a man that likes to dress as a woman.

AND he never commits to saying anything when asked direct questions.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> There is a difference between advocate and activist. They both have a common goal, yes, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing, *not to sound harsh but you can google it*.
> 
> Opponents of gay marriage say they don't want biblical marriage redefined. And if you haven't heard that argument used, I really don't know what to say. It is one of the main reasons why people oppose same sex marriage.
> 
> I am not a psychologist and didn't deeply analyze why certain people feel the way they do about other groups is clouded in the broad lgtb umbrella. I merely was saying that not everyone thinks alike and pointing that fact out.



ad·vo·cate
noun
&#712;adv&#601;k&#601;t/
1.
a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.
"he was an untiring advocate of economic reform"
synonyms:	champion, upholder, supporter, backer, promoter, proponent, exponent, spokesman, spokeswoman, spokesperson, campaigner, fighter, crusader; More

I'd say that they're similar enough that I don't really know why we're arguing the difference. IMO it's a an insignificant detail, but I know that you were really caught up on the difference since you avoided answering my question.

And you specifically said that you knew lesbians who were against transgender rights so I was just trying to ask you what their reasons were. I'm curious because I don't know many LGBT who are anti-one side of LGBT and in favor of the other. I wasn't asking you to be a psychologist, I was just trying to have a discussion with someone who said that they knew about something that I didn't. 

And I believe I said that supporters of gay marriage do not want to redefine biblical marriage. It goes into the category of "not everyone believing in or feeling the same way about something." Not everyone believes in the bible.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

blackkitty4378 said:


> ad·vo·cate
> noun
> &#712;adv&#601;k&#601;t/
> 1.
> a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.
> "he was an untiring advocate of economic reform"
> synonyms:champion, upholder, supporter, backer, promoter, proponent, exponent, spokesman, spokeswoman, spokesperson, campaigner, fighter, crusader; More
> 
> I'd say that they're similar enough that I don't really know why we're arguing the difference. IMO it's a an insignificant detail, but I know that you were really caught up on the difference since you avoided answering my question.
> 
> And you specifically said that you knew lesbians who were against transgender rights so I was just trying to ask you what their reasons were. I'm curious because I don't know many LGBT who are anti-one side of LGBT and in favor of the other. I wasn't asking you to be a psychologist, I was just trying to have a discussion with someone who said that they knew about something that I didn't.
> 
> And I believe I said that supporters of gay marriage do not want to redefine biblical marriage. It goes into the category of "not everyone believing in or feeling the same way about something." Not everyone believes in the bible.




You seem to want to pick some sort of fight with me. 

You seem to have some answer I your head about how I should answer your question and if I don't give it the. I am avoiding the question. 

I've spoken to women who feel that a transgender person will never truly be a women and they don't get it. I didn't delve into a deep discussion about it or the psychological aspect of it. I merely listened and then conversation moved on.  I don't know what you are looking for???? 

I merely said that just because we lump people into one group, that doesn't mean they do. It also means they don't all think the same way. Loving someone of the same sex and feeling you are really the opposite sex are two very very different things.  

In your advocate definition I don't see activism anywhere mentioned, so not sure how that proves your case they are the same. There are many Google articles that explain the difference. I was only asking for clarification on which one you meant. Because again you seem to want this answer that I can't give you. 

And I never said everyone believes in the bible (I don't). I said it was used to oppose same sex marriage. But there are people in the lgtb community that do follow the bible. Again goes back to not everyone thinking the same way. 

This is a completely different discussion too and is very much veering off topic. I simply said give Caitlynn a bit of some breathing room while she figures out this new life. She is growing and changing her ideology but it isn't an overnight process.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that CJ has had a stroke just from the looks of the botched plastic surgery. She should demand a refund on that for the fact that her one eye is so droopy.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> You seem to want to pick some sort of fight with me.



I'm not trying to pick a fight with you at all. Like I said, I just wanted a discussion because I'm genuinely curious about LGBT people who only support one side of the issue and it seems like you have been exposed to more people like that than I have. You clearly don't want to have a discussion, and that's okay, I just thought with you replying to me back and all that you wanted to discuss it, too.



> I've spoken to women who feel that a transgender person will never truly be a women and they don't get it. I didn't delve into a deep discussion about it or the psychological aspect of it. I merely listened and then conversation moved on.  I don't know what you are looking for????



Thank you! I was looking for an explanation even as simple as that. "I didn't talk to them more about it," would have sufficed. I believe in one portion you said that you "worked" with some LGBT not for equal rights of all LGBT. It was my, probably incorrect, assumption that since you "worked" with them that you actually knew them well enough that you inquired about why they have an issue with whatever group of the LGBT they don't like.



> I merely said that just because we lump people into one group, that doesn't mean they do. It also means they don't all think the same way. Loving someone of the same sex and feeling you are really the opposite sex are two very very different things.



I agree! In my experience, people who are activists/advocates like Caitlyn who want to make a difference want it for all LGBT. If Caitlyn were just a regular transgender woman I could understand, but Caitlyn has said several times that she wants to make a difference for transgender people, and my main issue with her not being pro-gay rights is that it doesn't send a very effective message, as I've said before.

That's the main problem I have with Caitlyn. If she actually wants to make a difference in transgender lives, and is being a little hypocritical, people have the right to call her out on it because that's what she proclaimed and signed up for.



> In your advocate definition I don't see activism anywhere mentioned, so not sure how that proves your case they are the same. There are many Google articles that explain the difference. I was only asking for clarification on which one you meant. Because again you seem to want this answer that I can't give you.



First of all it's not "my" definition (my turn to fuss over words ) it's the one that comes from Google, which I think comes from a reputable dictionary. I just want to make it clear that I didn't make it up.

Second of all, if you look at the synonyms, you see words like promoter, spokesperson, campaigner, which in my mind, kind of equal activists. Especially with today with social media, a person with the amount of fame that Caitlyn has even publicly supporting different things, like being transgender, can make a difference and raise awareness to certain issues, which I think of as a form of activism.



> And I never said everyone believes in the bible (I don't). I said it was used to oppose same sex marriage. But there are people in the lgtb community that do follow the bible. Again goes back to not everyone thinking the same way.



All I was saying is that people who support gay rights do not want to change biblical marriage, since you mentioned "biblical marriage." I don't see how a gay person who wants a gay marriage could follow the bible in that aspect, but I guess a transgender man or woman could since their gender identity is either a man or a woman, and could marry someone of the opposite sex. Again, it goes back to hypocrisy, which in my view is not good for _Caitlyn_ because she has proclaimed herself as an activist/advocate for transgender people and it doesn't send a good message.



> This is a completely different discussion too and is very much veering off topic. I simply said give Caitlynn a bit of some breathing room while she figures out this new life. She is growing and changing her ideology but it isn't an overnight process.



I think she deserves time, but she's campaigning against problems that transgender people face. It's not like this is a light issue. All I'm saying is that when she puts herself out there as someone who wants to advocate for transgender rights and is found to be hypocritical, it's justified to point of some hypocrisy that she has.

This circles back to the people you said had views like Caitlyn, and I tried to ask if they were activists/advocates and I didn't get an answer right away. My point was that's fine for them, but not for Caitlyn.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

I don't remember saying I worked with lgtb individuals; I said I have spoken with them. And I said several times I didn't go into detail about it. But that didn't seem good enough for you

I simply pointed out one thing (others may not know) and not sure how that showed I wanted to get into a political debate.


----------



## ByeKitty

I don't think it's good to lump all LGBT people together as if they all fully understand each other... However, as a public figure who is presented as a type of "LGBT advocate", or at least a key figure in awareness raising, I think it's wise for her to not differentiate between transgender rights and gay rights. I don't think Caitlyn said anything shocking though - yes, she has always held conservative views regarding marriage, and is now "okay" with gay marriage. Nothing crazy. Give her time.


----------



## tweegy

lol


----------



## blackkitty4378

Dallas_Girl said:


> I don't remember saying I worked with lgtb individuals; I said I have spoken with them. And I said several times I didn't go into detail about it. But that didn't seem good enough for you
> 
> I simply pointed out one thing (others may not know) and not sure how that showed I wanted to get into a political debate.



The "work" thing was my bad, don't know where I got that from. I just checked and I don't see it. I think I confused you with someone else. Sorry.

Besides the "work" thing, it did seem like you knew them well enough to me at least, since you had a rather strong opinion about it. That's the only reason why I was asking.

I don't think you said that you didn't go into detail about it until your last post. I just skimmed our previous posts and I didn't see it.

I don't see this as a political debate because I've centered my issue with Caitlyn and her hypocrisy, and tried to inquire about your experience with LGBT people like her.

It seems like you feel attacked and that was not my intention. Have a nice day.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

CJ has said she's known for YEARS that she was female so how much time does she need? Just because it's all new to her family and the public doesn't mean it's something she's just started dealing with.
I'm not quite sure why people thinks she should be treated with kid gloves.


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> I don't think it's good to lump all LGBT people together as if they all fully understand each other... However, as a public figure who is presented as a type of "LGBT advocate", or at least a key figure in awareness raising, I think it's wise for her to not differentiate between transgender rights and gay rights. I don't think Caitlyn said anything shocking though - yes, she has always held conservative views regarding marriage, and is now "okay" with gay marriage. Nothing crazy. Give her time.



C'mon ByeKitty, give her time for what lol?  

Caitlyn and Bruce are the same person. I think some folks fail to remember that. So the same views and expressions Bruce had, Caitlyn is going to have. This person didn't just wake up from a coma and is rediscovering the world. She claims she knew this is who she wanted to be since young. Then she ought to be sure of alot of things about herself. Only thing she seems to know for sure is she likes wearing dresses and looking pretty. As far as I see, she knows nothing outside of that. Which is disappointing and questionable.

I was watching old epis of their K show with Bruce...I would have never thought Mr conservative traditional Bruce would come out as Caitlyn. Its just 'cray'. 

Folk keep making excuses for this woman. So many trans folks out there and waaay more sure of themselves than Caitlyn.

At this point, what we SHOULD be asking is...when is the hastily fabricated fragrance of Caitlyn gonna debut??? Thats the question doll... thats the question..


----------



## blackkitty4378

ByeKitty said:


> I don't think it's good to lump all LGBT people together as if they all fully understand each other... However, as a public figure who is presented as a type of "LGBT advocate", or at least a key figure in awareness raising, I think it's wise for her to not differentiate between transgender rights and gay rights. I don't think Caitlyn said anything shocking though - yes, she has always held conservative views regarding marriage, and is now "okay" with gay marriage. Nothing crazy. Give her time.



It's not that it's shocking to me, per se, I just feel like if she truly understood the plight of most transgender people who aren't privileged like her, the people who she's claiming to fight for, she would be more a little bit more supportive for gay rights, too.

I feel like anyone else who had somewhat conflicting, hypocritical views would be called out on it. I just wanted to call her out on it, and as you see it turned into a huge discussion. :weird:


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> C'mon ByeKitty, give her time for what lol?
> 
> Caitlyn and Bruce are the same person. I think some folks fail to remember that. So the same views and expressions Bruce had, Caitlyn is going to have. This person didn't just wake up from a coma and is rediscovering the world. She claims she knew this is who she wanted to be since young. Then she ought to be sure of alot of things about herself. Only thing she seems to know for sure is she likes wearing dresses and looking pretty. As far as I see, she knows nothing outside of that. Which is disappointing and questionable.
> 
> I was watching old epis of their K show with Bruce...I would have never thought Mr conservative traditional Bruce would come out as Caitlyn. Its just 'cray'.
> 
> Folk keep making excuses for this woman. So many trans folks out there and waaay more sure of themselves than Caitlyn.
> 
> At this point, what we SHOULD be asking is...when is the hastily fabricated fragrance of Caitlyn gonna debut??? Thats the question doll... thats the question..



I'm not trying to make excuses for her per se, I'm just saying that changing views on gay marriage may not come easy to all. I like how she's reconsidering her past stance.

Apart from that, yes, she may have felt like she was born in the wrong body for decades, but I'm sure feeling that is something else than actually going through a gender transition. There must be so many things you run into, so many things to reconsider, things you didn't really think of before that you're confronted with after. It's like that with each invasive life experience but I think it may be even worse if a decision entails drastic changes to the way you present yourself.


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> I'm not trying to make excuses for her per se, I'm just saying that changing views on gay marriage may not come easy to all. I like how she's reconsidering her past stance.
> 
> Apart from that, yes, she may have felt like she was born in the wrong body for decades, but I'm sure feeling that is something else than actually going through a gender transition. There must be so many things you run into, so many things to reconsider, things you didn't really think of before that you're confronted with after. It's like that with each invasive life experience but I think it may be even worse if a decision entails drastic changes to the way you present yourself.



Yeh, I get that, maybe she will take a step back...one day. But at this point, I wouldn't expect too much from her other than what you would any Kardashian.


----------



## ByeKitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> It's not that it's shocking to me, per se, I just feel like if she truly understood the plight of most transgender people who aren't privileged like her, the people who she's claiming to fight for, she would be more a little bit more supportive for gay rights, too.
> 
> I feel like anyone else who had somewhat conflicting, hypocritical views would be called out on it. I just wanted to call her out on it, and as you see it turned into a huge discussion. :weird:


You were at the forefront of that discussion though  I agree with you that nobody should get a pass on hypocritical views. I haven't seen anyone do that in here though. When can something be considered hypocritical? For example, I have said that her decision to still be 'Bruce Jenner' when she plays golf to avoid their no-women policy is ridiculous - that's hypocritical to me. However, I do believe that the fact that one is gay doesn't mean they have to automatically understand transgender issues, and vice versa. Sometimes people are so quick to jump to conclusions in this thread.


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> Yeh, I get that, maybe she will take a step back...one day. But at this point, I wouldn't expect too much from her other than what you would any Kardashian.



I haven't watched her pathetic reality show for a reason


----------



## blackkitty4378

ByeKitty said:


> You were at the forefront of that discussion though  I agree with you that nobody should get a pass on hypocritical views. I haven't seen anyone do that in here though. When can something be considered hypocritical? For example, I have said that her decision to still be 'Bruce Jenner' when she plays golf to avoid their no-women policy is ridiculous - that's hypocritical to me. However, I do believe that the fact that one is gay doesn't mean they have to automatically understand transgender issues, and vice versa. Sometimes people are so quick to jump to conclusions in this thread.



I was  because I believe that Caitlyn and other LGBT advocates and activists, especially those who are public figures, should be held to a higher standard than common folk and my point kept getting missed.

I don't expect that just because she's transgender that she has to understand gay issues. I just feel like the claim to raise awareness and help transgender people was announced a little bit too prematurely. People keep saying "give her time" but I don't think she gave herself time before she claimed to want to do good for transgender community.

I guess I just expected more from her than the current famewhoring that is going on now.


----------



## ByeKitty

blackkitty4378 said:


> I was  because I believe that Caitlyn and other LGBT advocates and activists should be held to a higher standard than common folk and my point kept getting missed.
> 
> I don't expect that just because she's transgender that she has to understand gay issues. *I just feel like the claim to raise awareness and help transgender people was announced a little bit too prematurely*. People keep saying "give her time" but I don't think she gave herself time before she claimed to want to do good for transgender community.
> 
> I guess I just expected more from her than the current famewhoring that is going on now.



You are so right! I think she was well equipped to raise awareness on transgenderness in a very general sense because she had the fame and publicity and a very mediagenic life story. But helping others?! Right at the time where she probably needed help to figure herself out? That comes across as premature.


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> I haven't watched her pathetic reality show for a reason



Well from what I've seen (when I walk past the tele and its on) you're missing crying, her complaining about her fam, how women's clothing and makeup are amazing, and her lost facial expression when another trans person talks about what they've been thru....I know.... riviting..


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> Well from what I've seen (when I walk past the tele and its on) you're missing crying, her complaining about her fam, how women's clothing and makeup are amazing, and her lost facial expression when another trans person talks about what they've been thru....I know.... riviting..



I've only seen a few scenes online and that was enough for me... Everything about it seems staged and Kardashian-esque, and it's not worth my time. People at bunim/murray are so incompetent if this is the best they could do.


----------



## keodi

tweegy said:


> C'mon ByeKitty, give her time for what lol?
> 
> Caitlyn and Bruce are the same person. I think some folks fail to remember that. So the same views and expressions Bruce had, Caitlyn is going to have. This person didn't just wake up from a coma and is rediscovering the world. She claims she knew this is who she wanted to be since young. Then she ought to be sure of alot of things about herself. Only thing she seems to know for sure is she likes wearing dresses and looking pretty. As far as I see, she knows nothing outside of that. Which is disappointing and questionable.
> 
> I was watching old epis of their K show with Bruce...I would have never thought Mr conservative traditional Bruce would come out as Caitlyn. Its just 'cray'.
> 
> Folk keep making excuses for this woman. So many trans folks out there and waaay more sure of themselves than Caitlyn.
> 
> *At this point, what we SHOULD be asking is...when is the hastily fabricated fragrance of Caitlyn gonna debut??? Thats the question doll... thats the question*..


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> I've only seen a few scenes online and that was enough for me... Everything about it seems staged and Kardashian-esque, and it's not worth my time. People at bunim/murray are so incompetent if this is the best they could do.



Yes, but its done with klass...

i.e. filmed with a filter...


----------



## Encore Hermes

O plz.....Bruce/Caitlyn has an ego the size of Gibralter. Talking about marriage, nice to be a traditionalist when you have had 3 divorces, been an adulterer, and told your first wife to abort your child. 
She as B make a career being a motivational speaker, getting paid telling groups how the great BJ was the best athlete in the world and now she probably plans to do the same as CJ and that will be her advocacy, her gift to the trains community.  They should feel blessed to have her. 




tweegy said:


> C'mon ByeKitty, give her time for what lol?
> 
> Caitlyn and Bruce are the same person. I think some folks fail to remember that. So the same views and expressions Bruce had, Caitlyn is going to have. This person didn't just wake up from a coma and is rediscovering the world. She claims she knew this is who she wanted to be since young. Then she ought to be sure of alot of things about herself. Only thing she seems to know for sure is she likes wearing dresses and looking pretty. As far as I see, she knows nothing outside of that. Which is disappointing and questionable.
> 
> I was watching old epis of their K show with Bruce...I would have never thought Mr conservative traditional Bruce would come out as Caitlyn. Its just 'cray'.
> 
> Folk keep making excuses for this woman. So many trans folks out there and waaay more sure of themselves than Caitlyn.
> 
> At this point, what we SHOULD be asking is...when is the hastily fabricated fragrance of Caitlyn gonna debut??? Thats the question doll... thats the question..



Fragrances? I'm in..............


----------



## CobaltBlu

tweegy said:


> At this point, what we SHOULD be asking is...when is the hastily fabricated fragrance of Caitlyn gonna debut??? Thats the question doll... thats the question..



Thank you!  Finally someone asks the really important question! 
It's been a long time since any of this tribe has foisted a hastily fabricated fragrance on humanity. The time is ripe for it Caitlyn, we all want to huff those heady topnotes!


----------



## Encore Hermes

CobaltBlu said:


> Thank you!  Finally someone asks the really important question!
> It's been a long time since any of this tribe has foisted a hastily fabricated fragrance on humanity. The time is ripe for it Caitlyn, we all want to huff those heady topnotes!



Well, I'm back to the drawing board since Hint of Musk (Tm)  is taken. 

Working and the top notes flow,  so to speak,  but I [del] really fear being banned[/Del] am stumbling with the base notes.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Encore Hermes said:


> Well, I'm back to the drawing board since Hint of Musk (Tm)  is taken.
> 
> Working and the top notes flow,  so to speak,  but I [del] really fear being banned[/Del] am stumbling with the base notes.



Does Botox have an aroma?


----------



## redney

Encore Hermes said:


> Well, I'm back to the drawing board since Hint of Musk (Tm)  is taken.
> 
> Working and the top notes flow,  so to speak,  but I [del] really fear being banned[/del] am stumbling with the base notes.



Transgender tuberose?


----------



## Encore Hermes

CobaltBlu said:


> Does Botox have an aroma?



 good question........

boxwood doesn't work, eliminated that one


----------



## Encore Hermes

redney said:


> Transgender tuberose?




Ah yes........the tuberose..............this could work 

 The common name derives from the Latin tuberosa, meaning swollen or tuberous in reference to its root system. 
Wikipedia


----------



## Encore Hermes

Crazy......

Ellen and Howard talk about Caitlyn on Howard Stern's show

...........*Asked by Stern if Jenner danced with her, as many of the talk show&#8217;s guests do, DeGeneres said no. &#8220;Maybe she didn&#8217;t want to dance with me because I&#8217;m a lesbian,&#8221;*





In an interview for The Ellen DeGeneres Show taped last week, Caitlyn Jenner admitted that long before her gender transition she had trouble with the idea of same-sex marriage. Even now, she calls herself a &#8220;traditionalist&#8221; who believes in marriage as an institution that exists between a man and a woman.

These statements clearly took host Ellen DeGeneres aback in the moment and she elaborated on her surprise during an appearance on Howard Stern&#8217;s SiriusXM show Tuesday. &#8220;She still has a judgement about gay marriage,&#8221; DeGeneres said of Jenner. &#8220;And I said, &#8216;You&#8217;re wanting people to understand and accept you &#8212; this is like, really confusing to people &#8212; and you still have a judgement about gay people and marriage.&#8221;

&#8220;It&#8217;s crazy,&#8221; Stern said. &#8220;Here&#8217;s a person on TV crying, &#8216;I want to be myself, I want to be genuine, I don&#8217;t want people to ridicule me&#8217; and then says in the same breath, &#8216;Gee, gay marriage, I don&#8217;t get it.&#8217; It&#8217;s remarkable!&#8221;

Asked by Stern if Jenner danced with her, as many of the talk show&#8217;s guests do, DeGeneres said no. &#8220;Maybe she didn&#8217;t want to dance with me because I&#8217;m a lesbian,&#8221; she suggested. On Jenner&#8217;s self-described conservative politics, DeGeneres added, &#8220;I think a lot of **********s are wishing she wasn&#8217;t **********.&#8221;

Video in link 

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/crazy-el...nt-believe-caitlyn-jenners-marriage-comments/


----------



## krissa

I wonder if she's still as conservative with woman's issues that affect natural born females. Not trying to get too political.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Gawd I love Ellen! I would LOVE to meet her.
CJ's not making many friends, that's for sure. Guess it's easier to buy them instead.


----------



## berrydiva

redney said:


> Transgender tuberose?



 ...and with that, this thread is done *nothing to see here folks, nothing to see*


----------



## berrydiva

krissa said:


> I wonder if she's still as conservative with woman's issues that affect natural born females. Not trying to get too political.



That's a really excellent question and I'd be interested in hearing the answer.


----------



## chowlover2

Since CJ felt like a woman at a young age, why wasn't she a better parent? Most women are naturally maternal, and wouldn't run away from their kids, wonder what happened here?


----------



## mcb100

^Right. My personal opinion is that CJ is a good person at heart, but that she's always been a bad parent. I respect some of the thing's she's trying to do get her voice out there & stuff for the trans world, and I respect her transitioning, she seems like she has an okay personality, but that still doesn't make her a good parent....have never really seen her be there for Kendall or Kylie (actually even when CJ was Bruce, we never saw her pictured with Kendall & Kylie.), yeah I know Kylie's 18 now, but age still doesn't matter....I have never seen CJ really parent them or even try to talk to them about important things/advice.


----------



## mistikat

There are plenty of women who aren't maternal. I think the issue here is that neither Kris nor Caitlyn have been especially parental. And it shows.


----------



## Luvbolide

krissa said:


> I wonder if she's still as conservative with woman's issues that affect natural born females. Not trying to get too political.





I may just be too cynical, but I suspect that at heart Caitlin is the same white, conservative, wealthy ********** that Bruce was.  The only that changed is her gender.  I think it will come as a big surprise to her to realize that she is no longer among society's most privileged simply by virtue of becoming a woman.  And perhaps (in the words of Mick Jagger) - you can't always get what you want.


----------



## AEGIS

lmao @ ellen

bruce is inconsistent. trying to be the face of the transgendered movement but side eyeing gay marriage. your daughters are literal whores. that does not cause you alarm but gay marriage does? your daughter was literally being raped [the legal definiton by dating a man so much older than her] and that is ok but 2 consenting adults expressing their love is too much for you to handle? you have been married and divorced 3 times and that is to be understood and sympathized but gay marriage is too much? i literally can't even.GOOD DAY MADAME.


----------



## V0N1B2

tweegy said:


> C'mon ByeKitty, give her time for what lol?
> 
> Caitlyn and Bruce are the same person. I think some folks fail to remember that. So the same views and expressions Bruce had, Caitlyn is going to have. This person didn't just wake up from a coma and is rediscovering the world. She claims she knew this is who she wanted to be since young. Then she ought to be sure of alot of things about herself. Only thing she seems to know for sure is she likes wearing dresses and looking pretty. As far as I see, she knows nothing outside of that. Which is disappointing and questionable.


:worthy:


----------



## chowlover2

Luvbolide said:


> I may just be too cynical, but I suspect that at heart Caitlin is the same white, conservative, wealthy ********** that Bruce was.  The only that changed is her gender.  I think it will come as a big surprise to her to realize that she is no longer among society's most privileged simply by virtue of becoming a woman.  And perhaps (in the words of Mick Jagger) - you can't always get what you want.







AEGIS said:


> lmao @ ellen
> 
> bruce is inconsistent. trying to be the face of the transgendered movement but side eyeing gay marriage. your daughters are literal whores. that does not cause you alarm but gay marriage does? your daughter was literally being raped [the legal definiton by dating a man so much older than her] and that is ok but 2 consenting adults expressing their love is too much for you to handle? you have been married and divorced 3 times and that is to be understood and sympathized but gay marriage is too much? i literally can't even.GOOD DAY MADAME.




Totally agree!


----------



## pukasonqo

another poster said it, we need to remember that caitlyn is the same person morally and intellectually that bruce was; she might have come out in all her transgender glory but the mentality remains the same
coming out won't make her into a better person if she wasn't one to start with


----------



## Coach Lover Too

After watching the interview on the Today Show this morning, I can't help but speculate that CJ has an eating disorder or something. Her legs look like twigs and she is SO freaking thin. I was shocked to see the difference from the EPSY show and now.


----------



## Katel

Saw this on Twitter (If you have Vine):


This Caitlyn impression LMAO&#128128;&#128128; 
vine.co/v/eTAYzl1UerV


----------



## Katel

feeling kinda bad for CJ these days...seems Bruce just lived in his own bubble/world and CJ continues to do that (naturally)...and now the publicity that she wanted is coming back to bite her because she's not living the way everyone else wants her to/thinks she should...what a sad society we live in.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Katel said:


> feeling kinda bad for CJ these days...seems Bruce just lived in his own bubble/world and CJ continues to do that (naturally)...and now the publicity that she wanted is coming back to bite her because she's not living the way everyone else wants her to/thinks she should...what a sad society we live in.




Yep!!! Exactly!!! Social media does allow you room to breath and be human now and make mistakes. Everything is scrutinized and judged. Doesn't matter if there are good intentions.


----------



## queen

Katel said:


> feeling kinda bad for CJ these days...seems Bruce just lived in his own bubble/world and CJ continues to do that (naturally)...and now the publicity that she wanted is coming back to bite her because she's not living the way everyone else wants her to/thinks she should...what a sad society we live in.


Really, why would you feel bad for someone who said in a taped interview this morning that she feels lucky to be able to live in two genders.  Why feel bad for someone who also stated they had lived as the ultimate male.  Why feel bad for someone who is being plastered all over all sorts of media because she has decided she would like to live as a woman.  Anyone who is not pc gets bashed for not crowning her.  I do not feel bad for her and think she is privileged and gets a pass when most others could not get the royal treatment she has received.  I reserve my feeeling bad for people who are hurting and have needs.  I strongly suspect it is the hormones that cause her to weep and be emotional.  Most women have experienced that at some time.

Why feel bad for someone who is making money hand over fist for changing genders.  Feel bad for someone who is not the least bit concerned for the 3 families she has left behind to pursue her selfish wants, not me. You are allowed to feel bad for anybody you wish.  I won't be joining the feel bad for Cait club.


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> After watching the interview on the Today Show this morning, I can't help but speculate that CJ has an eating disorder or something. Her legs look like twigs and she is SO freaking thin. I was shocked to see the difference from the EPSY show and now.


Funny how people see things differently.  I was thinking she did not look as svelte.


----------



## Jayne1

queen said:


> Really, why would you feel bad for someone who said in a taped interview this morning that she feels lucky to be able to live in two genders.  Why feel bad for someone who also stated they had lived as the ultimate male.  Why feel bad for someone who is being plastered all over all sorts of media because she has decided she would like to live as a woman.  Anyone who is not pc gets bashed for not crowning her.  I do not feel bad for her and think she is privileged and gets a pass when most others could not get the royal treatment she has received.  I reserve my feeeling bad for people who are hurting and have needs.  I strongly suspect it is the hormones that cause her to weep and be emotional.  Most women have experienced that at some time.
> 
> Why feel bad for someone who is making money hand over fist for changing genders.  Feel bad for someone who is not the least bit concerned for the 3 families she has left behind to pursue her selfish wants, not me. You are allowed to feel bad for anybody you wish.  I won't be joining the feel bad for Cait club.



Agree-- she's got a great life. Compare that to the earlier trans people, who had to go through, and still go through, so much.



queen said:


> Funny how people see things differently.  I was thinking she did not look as svelte.



She's skinny, but her waist is not small.


----------



## qudz104

Katel said:


> Saw this on Twitter (If you have Vine):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Caitlyn impression LMAO[emoji88][emoji88]
> 
> vine.co/v/eTAYzl1UerV




I saw this on fb and couldn't stop laughing! So spot on!


----------



## BagOuttaHell

A real Kardashain through and through.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> Really, why would you feel bad for someone who said in a taped interview this morning that she feels lucky to be able to live in two genders.  Why feel bad for someone who also stated they had lived as the ultimate male.  Why feel bad for someone who is being plastered all over all sorts of media because she has decided she would like to live as a woman.  Anyone who is not pc gets bashed for not crowning her.  I do not feel bad for her and think she is privileged and gets a pass when most others could not get the royal treatment she has received.  I reserve my feeeling bad for people who are hurting and have needs.  I strongly suspect it is the hormones that cause her to weep and be emotional.  Most women have experienced that at some time.
> 
> Why feel bad for someone who is making money hand over fist for changing genders.  Feel bad for someone who is not the least bit concerned for the 3 families she has left behind to pursue her selfish wants, not me. You are allowed to feel bad for anybody you wish.  I won't be joining the feel bad for Cait club.



Perfect!


----------



## shiny_things

Whilst CJ is entitled to her opinion on gay marriage (which I think is wrong), she can take a seat about discrimination and equality.

It's like Martin Luther King making his speech and then adding on the end 'except for Latinos, I just don't get them'.***






*** Disclaimer: Latinos was merely a group of people I randomly picked from my head, Nothing against them whatsoever.


----------



## shiny_things

mistikat said:


> There are plenty of women who aren't maternal. I think the issue here is that neither Kris nor Caitlyn have been especially parental. And it shows.



This. Don't be fooled, women can mae just as appalling parents as men and in equal amounts too.


----------



## shiny_things

Coach Lover Too said:


> After watching the interview on the Today Show this morning, I can't help but speculate that CJ has an eating disorder or something. Her legs look like twigs and she is SO freaking thin. I was shocked to see the difference from the EPSY show and now.



Hormone replacement often has this effect on guys.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

shiny_things said:


> Hormone replacement often has this effect on guys.



I wasn't aware of that. Maybe that's it then. I honesty thought she looked anorexic.


----------



## Flawn08

Although i find it weird that a trans still rejecting (or not fully accepting) a gay marriage, i do find bruce/cait is still entitled to her opinion. I know we love the idea of love equality, but why everyone have to agree with this?
i mean, what is wrong being a traditionalist? Let's agree to disagree on gay marriage or whatever it is. 

You just cant label anyone as a bad person just because she/he is accepting or rejecting gay marriage. Didnt we all raise differently after all?

I think as long as the traditionalists can tolerate gay marriage for the sake of respecting others and being able to live peacefully next to each other, why should everybody has to believe in the same thing?

Again cait.. u r basically a trans, how can u not understand gay marriage...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn Jenner Talks Vanity Fair Shoot-Inspired Halloween Outfits: "I'm in on the Joke"


​*Caitlyn Jenner*'s not easily offended. The reality TV star spoke to the _Today_ show's *Matt Lauer* for a new, two-part interview  and in the preview for the first part, which airs today, Wednesday, Sept. 9, the former Olympian revealed she's not upset about the Caitlyn Jenner-inspired Halloween outfits.

The controversial costume, which features a white fitted bodice just like the one Jenner wore on her now famous coming out _Vanity Fair_ cover back in July, has been met with outrage from much of the transgender community.
But the_ I Am Cait _star, who has seen the costume, complete with "Call Me Caitlyn" sash and brown wig, insists she doesn't find the creation hurtful, and actually just wishes it was made with better quality materials!


"When you hear that there are companies out there that want to do Caitlyn Jenner costumes for Halloween from the _Vanity Fair_ cover, are you in on the joke or do you think it's offensive?" Lauer asked his guest in the preview clip.
"I'm in on the joke. I don't think it's offensive at all," Jenner replied. "I know the community does and they've gotten a lot of criticism for doing it. I think it's great."


The quality of the outfit isn't quite up to Jenner's exacting requirements. "They could have a better looking outfit for him, you know?" she said, laughing.
"We could have done my own costume," she then joked to Lauer. "I mean that was a serious bustier on the cover of _Vanity Fair_, you know?"


Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...loween-outfits-its-great-201599#ixzz3lGlCM9jp 
Follow us: @usweekly on Twitter | usweekly on Facebook

​


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> After watching the interview on the Today Show this morning, I can't help but speculate that CJ has an eating disorder or something. Her legs look like twigs and she is SO freaking thin. I was shocked to see the difference from the EPSY show and now.





shiny_things said:


> Hormone replacement often has this effect on guys.



To me, she has the same build as Matt Lauer. 

I don't think she looks skinny or anything out of the ordinary.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> To me, she has the same build as Matt Lauer.
> 
> I don't think she looks skinny or anything out of the ordinary.



Well I guess it's just me that thinks CJ needs a hamburger!


----------



## Sasha2012

The ankle skimming design of the denim trousers looked to be inspired her runway model daughter's own favourite casual attire.

Kendall has been seen traipsing all over the world in similar pairs of jeans for the last couple of years.

And now Caitlyn appears to also be a fan of the trend as she grabbed a cup of coffee in her quiet upscale beach community.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...errands-tight-skinny-jeans.html#ixzz3lH8snUjW


----------



## Katel

queen said:


> Really, why would you feel bad for someone who said in a taped interview this morning that she feels lucky to be able to live in two genders.  Why feel bad for someone who also stated they had lived as the ultimate male.  Why feel bad for someone who is being plastered all over all sorts of media because she has decided she would like to live as a woman.  Anyone who is not pc gets bashed for not crowning her.  I do not feel bad for her and think she is privileged and gets a pass when most others could not get the royal treatment she has received.  I reserve my feeeling bad for people who are hurting and have needs.  I strongly suspect it is the hormones that cause her to weep and be emotional.  Most women have experienced that at some time.
> 
> Why feel bad for someone who is making money hand over fist for changing genders.  Feel bad for someone who is not the least bit concerned for the 3 families she has left behind to pursue her selfish wants, not me. You are allowed to feel bad for anybody you wish.  I won't be joining the feel bad for Cait club.



I hear ya 

But take away his achievements, his failures, his transition, his Kardashian-esque gaudy fame-ho-ness, underneath it all she is (appears to me to be) a mess, confused and maybe seeking approval...she's not really happy at all. She's looking for that LOVE.

And she's human.

So even though she's asked for it, I still feel compassion for her personal - and public (thanks to CJ, I know) messy struggle.


----------



## Jayne1

One is dressed for the paps, including heels, to get a coffee and the other is not dressed for the paps.


----------



## redney

Those are some high waisted, long zippered mom jeans!


----------



## tweegy

Found: Jessica Simpson's mom jeans....


----------



## Coach Lover Too

So she's wearing the same jeans her daughter's been wearing?? Oh good lerd.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Those are some pretty tight jeans to not see anything. Did she already have the procedure to go all female?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> Those are some pretty tight jeans to not see anything. Did she already have the procedure to go all female?



I'm glad you asked first because I was wondering if the female hormones that could be making her thin might have caused things to shrink. Not really sure how that works to be honest.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm glad you asked first because I was wondering if the female hormones that could be making her thin might have caused things to shrink. Not really sure how that works to be honest.



I don't know what architecture is going on undernearh those jeans but I doubt the surgery has happened. That's really risky surgery and the recovery time is enough (a minimum of 4 weeks) that CJ hasn't had time to do it.


----------



## Encore Hermes

I think she is tucking and taping and I hope she doesn't make her trusty assistant Rhonda do it for her.


----------



## schadenfreude

If she is taking estrogen, the kibbles and bits may have, ahem, atrophied somewhat.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Taping?? I can only imagine that would be ouch taking that tape off. Surgery might be better than that b


----------



## creighbaby

I am going to wade into the golf issue. Caitlyn is showing her position of power and privilege. She wants to be a woman, but will be a guy if it will get her what's what she wants. She has no problem with the fact that the club has different rules for men and women. And instead of using her "fame" and speaking up and fighting against the inequality she will do whatever it takes to get what she wants.

CJ held herself up as a role model for the LGBTQ community and that couldn't be further from the truth.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I googled how they tuck and tape it&#8230; and it doesn't sound very comfortable, but I don't have those parts so I can't really have an opinion. Removing the tape sounds like the worst part to me.


----------



## queen

Katel said:


> I hear ya
> 
> But take away his achievements, his failures, his transition, his Kardashian-esque gaudy fame-ho-ness, underneath it all she is (appears to me to be) a mess, confused and maybe seeking approval...she's not really happy at all. She's looking for that LOVE.
> 
> And she's human.
> 
> So even though she's asked for it, I still feel compassion for her personal - and public (thanks to CJ, I know) messy struggle.


Wonderful that you feel the empathy but she has said she is happier than she has ever been.  I do not see the need for pity.  No one died or left her.  I do feel empathy for her mother, siblings, children and former wives.  Her choice has left them with some hard things to deal with mentally.  It was her choice and she carries it all the way to the bank and accepts the attention freely.  She is now a protected person.  The media walks on egg shells and Matt Lauer admitted it.  So she will not get any pity from me.


----------



## queen

Jayne1 said:


> To me, she has the same build as Matt Lauer.
> 
> I don't think she looks skinny or anything out of the ordinary.


I see a healthy size and I don't think it is an 8 as she once stated.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Katel said:


> I hear ya
> 
> 
> 
> But take away his achievements, his failures, his transition, his Kardashian-esque gaudy fame-ho-ness, underneath it all she is (appears to me to be) a mess, confused and maybe seeking approval...she's not really happy at all. She's looking for that LOVE.
> 
> 
> 
> And she's human.
> 
> 
> 
> So even though she's asked for it, I still feel compassion for her personal - and public (thanks to CJ, I know) messy struggle.




I feel bad for her too even though she gets a serious side eye on a lot of thinks for me. She seems to have lived an empty unsatisfying life and it doesn't seem like it's getting any better for her.

She looks cute in that outfit. Much better in casual ware.


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> Caitlyn Jenner Talks Vanity Fair Shoot-Inspired Halloween Outfits: "I'm in on the Joke"
> 
> 
> ​*Caitlyn Jenner*'s not easily offended. The reality TV star spoke to the _Today_ show's *Matt Lauer* for a new, two-part interview  and in the preview for the first part, which airs today, Wednesday, Sept. 9, the former Olympian revealed she's not upset about the Caitlyn Jenner-inspired Halloween outfits.
> 
> The controversial costume, which features a white fitted bodice just like the one Jenner wore on her now famous coming out _Vanity Fair_ cover back in July, has been met with outrage from much of the transgender community.
> But the_ I Am Cait _star, who has seen the costume, complete with "Call Me Caitlyn" sash and brown wig, insists she doesn't find the creation hurtful, and actually just wishes it was made with better quality materials!
> 
> 
> "When you hear that there are companies out there that want to do Caitlyn Jenner costumes for Halloween from the _Vanity Fair_ cover, are you in on the joke or do you think it's offensive?" Lauer asked his guest in the preview clip.
> "I'm in on the joke. I don't think it's offensive at all," Jenner replied. "I know the community does and they've gotten a lot of criticism for doing it. I think it's great."
> 
> 
> The quality of the outfit isn't quite up to Jenner's exacting requirements. "They could have a better looking outfit for him, you know?" she said, laughing.
> "We could have done my own costume," she then joked to Lauer. "I mean that was a serious bustier on the cover of _Vanity Fair_, you know?"
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...loween-outfits-its-great-201599#ixzz3lGlCM9jp
> Follow us: @usweekly on Twitter | usweekly on Facebook
> 
> ​


Doesn't matter what they say as long as they are talking about her.  Wonder if she gets a royalty for the costume?  She is in good company as far as people who have had costumes made resembling them.


----------



## queen

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> I feel bad for her too even though she gets a serious side eye on a lot of thinks for me. She seems to have lived an empty unsatisfying life and it doesn't seem like it's getting any better for her.
> 
> She looks cute in that outfit. Much better in casual ware.


Really, lauded by the whole world as an athlete, married to three women, six children, all the cars and other boy toys anyone could desire.  Excels in sports still, has a beautiful home and plenty of people calling her beautiful and others feeling sorry for her.  Where is the empty and unsatisfying?  She has a much fuller and satisfying life than most people.  There are people who do not even have anyone who cares about them and no one to talk to.  That is an empty life.  Not Caitlyn Jenner.  Her life may not be perfect but it is pretty darn good.


----------



## tweegy

queen said:


> Really, lauded by the whole world as an athlete, married to three women, six children, all the cars and other boy toys anyone could desire.  Excels in sports still, has a beautiful home and plenty of people calling her beautiful and others feeling sorry for her.  Where is the empty and unsatisfying?  She has a much fuller and satisfying life than most people.  There are people who do not even have anyone who cares about them and no one to talk to.  That is an empty life.  Not Caitlyn Jenner.  Her life may not be perfect but it is pretty darn good.




This! Folks say it's an empty life, but not to the Jendashian clan. To them that's life. And that's fine.... For them...


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Because money doesn't buy happiness. 

And I can't imagine what life was like being married to Kris


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Being wealthy doesn't exempt you from personal pain. In some ways, with the wives and children especially, Caitlyn has been the architect of her problems, but realising that the person you've been suppressing is who you really are, cannot have been easy either.

She is privileged, no doubt but I sense confusion with her traditional values and political views, clashing front and centre with who she is now and what that means. The Ellen interview showed that clearly

The biggest mistake was doing the show. All this confusion and figuring out would normally take place in private. I guess the lure of the $$ was too much.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

I personally think when you have a family and wife that are fame whores it kinda becomes your world and what you know. After 20+ years of it, I can only imagine is begins to feel normal. And with the divorce and the transition, that's a lot of changes in a short amt of time. Caitlynn is probably trying to figure out how to be normal. She clearly has no clue how to though and is stumbling through and making lots of mistakes in people's eyes.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

She was a fame hoe long before she married Kris. 
I think her life seems empty and unsatisfying because she never felt like she was living the life she wanted, she wasn't herself, all of her marriages failed, her kids resent her, she doesn't seem to have any lasting meaningful relationships. She peaked when she won the decathalon at like 25 and then it's been forty years of nothing.


----------



## queen

Dallas_Girl said:


> I personally think when you have a family and wife that are fame whores it kinda becomes your world and what you know. After 20+ years of it, I can only imagine is begins to feel normal. And with the divorce and the transition, that's a lot of changes in a short amt of time. Caitlynn is probably trying to figure out how to be normal. She clearly has no clue how to though and is stumbling through and making lots of mistakes in people's eyes.


I guess I don't get all the sympathy for her because I really knew very little about the Kardashians until this whole Jenner thing came up and I started reading here and catching some of their shows.  I just do not get the fascination with people living as they do.  Famous for being famous and it all starting from a sex tape.  Which I have not seen so I really know nothing about it nor do I care to.  I would not pay a cent to promote their lifestyle.  Jenner willingly took part and profited from it so he is it the same as they.  When you take it to the streets there will be comments and not all good.  She is a big girl so I just can not understand all the empathy and support.  But it is not my business.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I think CJ is a LOT smarter than some people give her credit for. I apologize if I've stated that before but this isn't a dumb person we're talking about by any means and she's far from being a victim.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think CJ is a LOT smarter than some people give her credit for. I apologize if I've stated that before but this isn't a dumb person we're talking about by any means and she's far from being a victim.




[emoji106]


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think CJ is a LOT smarter than some people give her credit for. I apologize if I've stated that before but this isn't a dumb person we're talking about by any means and she's far from being a victim.


Agree!


----------



## AEGIS

creighbaby said:


> I am going to wade into the golf issue. Caitlyn is showing her position of power and privilege. She wants to be a woman, but will be a guy if it will get her what's what she wants. She has no problem with the fact that the club has different rules for men and women. And instead of using her "fame" and speaking up and fighting against the inequality she will do whatever it takes to get what she wants.
> 
> CJ held herself up as a role model for the LGBTQ community and that couldn't be further from the truth.



yup yup yup


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think CJ is a LOT smarter than some people give her credit for. I apologize if I've stated that before but this isn't a dumb person we're talking about by any means and she's far from being a victim.




I could be underestimating him. Time will tell what happens. I still say it hasn't been long enough to really know.


----------



## Sarni

I don't think Caitlyn is a nice person at all. She is just like Kim, self centered and totally self absorbed.   I can't stand listening to her speak, her voice is like nails on a chalkboard to my ears!


----------



## HauteMama

I wonder if Caitlyn feels that she or other transgendered people ought to be able to marry a person of the opposite sex from what they identify with.


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think CJ is a LOT smarter than some people give her credit for. I apologize if I've stated that before but this isn't a dumb person we're talking about by any means and she's far from being a victim.




Agreed!


----------



## queen

I just saw the second video of the Lauer/Jenner interview.  For those feeling sympathy for Cait's unhappiness Lauer said post interview she seemed genuinely happy.  I could not believe Jenner told Lauer how boobs help putting.  That brought my attention to her boobs.  Was she braless?  I find that strange after her earlier comment about sport bras.  Asking cause I saw no evidence of one.  She seemed just like Bruce to me.  I really see no change other than the clothes, makeup and surgery.  I find the Caitlyn necklace a little youthful for a 65 year old woman.  But who am I to pick apart her choice of jewelry?


----------



## tweegy

queen said:


> I just saw the second video of the Lauer/Jenner interview.  For those feeling sympathy for Cait's unhappiness Lauer said post interview she seemed genuinely happy.  I could not believe Jenner told Lauer how boobs help putting.  That brought my attention to her boobs.  Was she braless?  I find that strange after her earlier comment about sport bras.  Asking cause I saw no evidence of one.  *She seemed just like Bruce to me.  I really see no change other than the clothes, makeup and surgery.*  I find the Caitlyn necklace a little youthful for a 65 year old woman.  But who am I to pick apart her choice of jewelry?



Well.....yeah... lol


----------



## pukasonqo

Coach Lover Too said:


> I think CJ is a LOT smarter than some people give her credit for. I apologize if I've stated that before but this isn't a dumb person we're talking about by any means and she's far from being a victim.




yup


----------



## dangerouscurves

Not sure, but don't female hormones make you plumper? Isn't that what they are for on Transgender people? To give you fat on places like hips and butt?


----------



## Jayne1

dangerouscurves said:


> Not sure, but don't female hormones make you plumper? Isn't that what they are for on Transgender people? *To give you fat on places like hips and butt?*



So, she's not on hormones, then.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Jayne1 said:


> So, she's not on hormones, then.



It can take 2-3 years before the effects of the hormones can be seen. In some, 5 years.



> The effects of female hormone treatment will vary considerably by individual, and can take 2 to 5 years to fully achieve.  In order to maximise the physical effects and benefits, hormone treatment should be begun as young as possible, before the body has completely matured and can no longer develop in response to stimuli.  Maximum feminisation occurs if hormonal treatment begins before a male puberty.
> 
> If the testes have been removed in infancy or early childhood (usually because the child has been identified as intersex or AIS, and a female gender has been agreed with the parents), hormone therapy is usually started at the age of about 10 or 11, in order to initiate a female puberty.
> 
> Unfortunately of course this ideal situation is very rare - the average 'western' transwoman is in her 30's before she commences hormone treatment.  If a male puberty has already occurred, whilst female hormone therapy will cause a reduction in the levels of 'male' androgens such as testosterone, this will have little or no effect on most of the already developed of male secondary sexual characteristics (e.g. deepening of voice, facial hair, narrow pelvis, ...).
> 
> The longer after male puberty (which typically ends by age 18) that female hormone therapy is started the less effective it will be - but not on a linear scale, the effects tail-off rapidly as time since puberty increases.  For example, a woman starting hormones at age 20 may experience good breast development and a near cessation of facial hair growth, the same woman starting treatment at 30 will get considerably less breast development and only a slight reduction of facial hair growth, while if she started at 40 the effects will be less again, but not so significantly.



Source:http://www.secondtype.info/hormones.htm


----------



## hermes_lemming

I don't know what it is but there is something very off putting about Cait. I realize she is living in her truth but she has this air of entitlement that just turns me off. I have a pretty high threshold for reality TV but would honestly get a root canal than suffer through an entire episode of "I am Cait".


----------



## Encore Hermes

At a polo fundraiser









Us magazine


----------



## Sasha2012

She has never been afraid to tout her conservative credentials.

And Caityn Jenner ended up being the center of attention at a charity polo match in a posh area of Los Angeles on Saturday after turning up in a ladylike all-white ensemble.

The 65-year-old, who wore a white shirt dress by Frame Denim, was mobbed by excited fans at the 8th Annual Safety Harbor Kids Polo Classic Fundraiser in upmarket Pacific Palisades.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ity-polo-match-Los-Angeles.html#ixzz3lfniHyIM


----------



## veyda

hermes_lemming said:


> I don't know what it is but there is something very off putting about Cait. I realize she is living in her truth but she has this air of entitlement that just turns me off. I have a pretty high threshold for reality TV but would honestly get a root canal than suffer through an entire episode of "I am Cait".



I agree.

I have hit the wall with the whole Klan.


----------



## yajaira

Just imagine if none of this was real, it was all for show amd money all planned out by pmk! Just to get more money and ratings LMAO


----------



## michie

yajaira said:


> Just imagine if none of this was real, it was all for show amd money all planned out by pmk! Just to get more money and ratings LMAO



Quoted for emphasis.


----------



## chowlover2

hermes_lemming said:


> I don't know what it is but there is something very off putting about Cait. I realize she is living in her truth but she has this air of entitlement that just turns me off. I have a pretty high threshold for reality TV but would honestly get a root canal than suffer through an entire episode of "I am Cait".




I totally agree!


----------



## hermes_lemming

veyda said:


> I agree.
> 
> I have hit the wall with the whole Klan.





chowlover2 said:


> I totally agree!


After watching the bit with Kris, I think I just realized why I don't like Cait - she is very blasé and insensitive to other people and their feelings. It doesn't matter if it's someone who is struggling with transgender or watching a former spouse hold it together in front of their former husband of several decades. Bruce wasn't like this. Yea he was zipping about with his helicopters and dune buggies, but since he turned, she is straight selfish. Unless it benefits her, she has no empathy towards others.


----------



## blackkitty4378

Caitlyn has always been a self-centered narcissist doing whatever she wanted at the expense of others, like her first two sets of children, for example. On KUWTK she played the conservative, concerned father when she was Bruce. Now we see how little she really cares now that there's money to be made off of her transition.


----------



## BrandSnob

hermes_lemming said:


> After watching the bit with Kris, I think I just realized why I don't like Cait - she is very blasé and insensitive to other people and their feelings. It doesn't matter if it's someone who is struggling with transgender or watching a former spouse hold it together in front of their former husband of several decades. Bruce wasn't like this. Yea he was zipping about with his helicopters and dune buggies, but since he turned, she is straight selfish. Unless it benefits her, she has no empathy towards others.




+1 I totally agree. I actually liked Bruce but realllllly dislike Caitlyn


----------



## VickyB

hermes_lemming said:


> I don't know what it is but there is something very off putting about Cait. I realize she is living in her truth but she has this air of entitlement that just turns me off. I have a pretty high threshold for reality TV but would honestly get a root canal than suffer through an entire episode of "I am Cait".[/QUOTE]
> 
> ITA!


----------



## gilbertte112

This is a joke....a very weird joke


----------



## Dallas_Girl

I think Kris really knows how to turn on the waterworks too when the cameras are on to make her seem like the victim.


----------



## mrsinsyder

It's funny that the public is turning on her now... I figured the love-fest wouldn't last.


----------



## Jayne1

Dallas_Girl said:


> I think Kris really knows how to turn on the waterworks too when the cameras are on to make her seem like the victim.



Kris cries very easily, we've seen her do itKris crying is kind of meaningless, since she does it at any time and very readily.


----------



## bag-mania

I don't know what people expected. A reality show was in the works from  the beginning. Nobody watches a show on the  E! network to see someone navigate through their life with grace and  dignity. That isn't interesting television. What we see is what the  show's creators want us to see. How much of it is the real CJ is  anyone's guess.


----------



## queen

mrsinsyder said:


> It's funny that the public is turning on her now... I figured the love-fest wouldn't last.


I have seen enough and I am not buying any of Jenner's stories.  I hope the show is cancelled as I do not think it is helping anyone but is lining some pockets.  I have little respect for anyone who decides it is all about them at the expense of everybody else.  That's all I have.


----------



## maddie66

queen said:


> I have seen enough and I am not buying any of Jenner's stories.  I hope the show is cancelled as I do not think it is helping anyone but is lining some pockets.  I have little respect for anyone who decides it is all about them at the expense of everybody else.  That's all I have.




Totally agree.  Obviously this is an extremely unsettled time in CJ's life and there are bound to be difficulties as she makes the transition.  And who knows how these shows are edited to be more dramatic.  But it definitely looks like CJ does not have a lot of sympathy for those around her who have to deal with this too.


----------



## mrsinsyder

queen said:


> I have seen enough and I am not buying any of Jenner's stories.  I hope the show is cancelled as I do not think it is helping anyone but is lining some pockets.  I have little respect for anyone who decides it is all about them at the expense of everybody else.  That's all I have.


100%.

I'll admit I watched the Diane Sawyer interview, but haven't watched the Cait show at all (no interest, really). While I'm sure the transition is extremely difficult for anyone, I don't believe that Caitlyn is facing a lot of the same issues that non-privileged trans people face.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn Jenner decides to go back to living as Bruce Jenner...3.....2.....1.......


----------



## shiny_things

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt as she's still coming to terms with being who she is, but I really dislike Caitlyn so far. She seems kind of self involved and dismissive of others problems. Not sure if that's how she was when she was Bruce, but it's certainly not endearing.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Coach Lover Too said:


> Caitlyn Jenner decides to go back to living as Bruce Jenner...3.....2.....1.......




While checks are coming in? Nah. Not any time soon.


----------



## lanasyogamama

That would be such a crazy turn of events.  Do you really think it's feasible?


----------



## zippie

lanasyogamama said:


> that would be such a crazy turn of events.  Do you really think it's feasible?


 


no


----------



## guccimamma

lanasyogamama said:


> That would be such a crazy turn of events.  Do you really think it's feasible?



yes, i think the novelty will wear off.

i stick with my original opinion that caitlyn is not of right mind, and has nothing to do with being transgender.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

The show is titled I am Cait so yes the show will center around her. They can edit out a lot of things to that will keep the focus on her. And reality shows are not reality, they have writers. 

Did she flub on interviews, probably so (I haven't seen them due to work). But Caitlynn isn't suddenly going to have different viewpoints on topics. I can also point out that changing ones stance does take time and doesn't happen when the other side attacks you. That only makes one defensive. Change comes from love, understanding, and patience. 

Could this all be an act, sure. But I'm allowing time before making any call on it.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I truly believe that Caitlyn has a personality disorder that has nothing to do with being transgender. I believe that she is a narcissist and shows a lot of the signs such as being self-centered and a lack of empathy. As others have said, she can't even pretend to look interested when other transgender people are sharing their story on her show.

I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt about her proclaimed intentions to benefit the transgender community and fight its issues like the high suicide rate and hate crimes, but I don't believe it now. I predict that her benefit to the community will be summed up as the announcement of her transition and the exposure it gave to the mainstream media.


----------



## Vanilla Bean

Dallas_Girl said:


> I think Kris really knows how to turn on the waterworks too when the cameras are on to make her seem like the victim.



Look up manipulative in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of Kris.

Caitlyn certainly became less likable as the show progressed. For me, the real highlight has been all of the other trans women who are authentic and true.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

guccimamma said:


> yes, i think the novelty will wear off.
> 
> i stick with my original opinion that caitlyn is not of right mind, and has nothing to do with being transgender.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Vanilla Bean said:


> Look up manipulative in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of Kris.
> 
> Caitlyn certainly became less likable as the show progressed. *For me, the real highlight has been all of the other trans women who are authentic and true.*



That's the part I've enjoyed the most too.


----------



## Tivo

I think Bruce is under a spell. Kris is a demon witch.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Vanilla Bean said:


> Look up manipulative in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of Kris.
> 
> Caitlyn certainly became less likable as the show progressed. For me, the real highlight has been all of the other trans women who are authentic and true.




I agree with this!! Kris is very manipulative. 

And yes Caitlynn has become somewhat unlikable but that could be due to editing. It keeps people talking about it (which we are doing). After all, that is what will keep the show on the air.


----------



## guccimamma

Coach Lover Too said:


> Caitlyn Jenner decides to go back to living as Bruce Jenner...3.....2.....1.......



that would be fun to watch. 

her die hard supporters seem to have left the building.


----------



## tweegy

guccimamma said:


> yes, i think the novelty will wear off.
> 
> 
> 
> i stick with my original opinion that caitlyn is not of right mind, and has nothing to do with being transgender.







blackkitty4378 said:


> I truly believe that Caitlyn has a personality disorder that has nothing to do with being transgender. I believe that she is a narcissist and shows a lot of the signs such as being self-centered and a lack of empathy. As others have said, she can't even pretend to look interested when other transgender people are sharing their story on her show.
> 
> I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt about her proclaimed intentions to benefit the transgender community and fight its issues like the high suicide rate and hate crimes, but I don't believe it now. I predict that her benefit to the community will be summed up as the announcement of her transition and the exposure it gave to the mainstream media.




[emoji106]agree


----------



## shiny_things

I don't doubt she is transgender. I'm just disappointed in the lack of giving a damn about other people going through the same journey.


----------



## VickyB

guccimamma said:


> that would be fun to watch.
> 
> her die hard supporters seem to have left the building.



That would be must watch TV!


----------



## DC-Cutie

anybody think Caitlyn and Candis will later tell the world they are dating?


----------



## GoGlam

DC-Cutie said:


> anybody think Caitlyn and Candis will later tell the world they are dating?




I do. I think Candis is doing it for a come-up though and doesn't dislike the idea of being with Bruce/Caitlyn.


----------



## ByeKitty

shiny_things said:


> I don't doubt she is transgender. I'm just disappointed in the lack of giving a damn about other people going through the same journey.



Yeah I don't doubt that she's transgender either... What reason is there to doubt this? I don't believe any "cis male" would go through transition purely for money. I also don't believe PMK, as :devil: as she is, could talk her husband into changing gender. Why would she, and why would he? There are other ways to stay in the news that require much less from him/her.


----------



## chowlover2

tweegy said:


> [emoji106]agree




+2!


----------



## bagnshoofetish

I think Bruce/Cait has always been socially awkward and thats what makes her appear aloof and dismissive about what others are going through.  Because she has had to keep this secret for so long it isn't hard to believe that she supresses her emotions.  Just because she is not so openly demonstrative about how she feels or what she is thinking, I do believe her heart breaks for people because she does know what they are going through.  Not only is this openess new ground to her but everything that is coming with it is new to her.  No one has done this in public view before in front of millions of people.  He was this macho-man-greatest athlete in the world and I cannot imagine the pressure he has felt all these years and the fear of ridicule and criticism he was going to get (as this thread clearly has shown).  But at his age he finally said, "eff it", he could no longer continue with the lie and his last years were going to be lived in the truth no matter what was thrown his way.  
The guy is doing the best he can and it is not his fault that fame was moreless thrust upon him once again because of what his wife and kids chose to pursue (ie the reality show) for all you know, he never believed it was going to be as successful as it has become - he was always in the shadows afterall.  And once you have had that kind of high profile celebrity the Olympics brought him, yes, it is hard to come down from that.  *Walk in someones shoes for a bit before you assume their journey should be handled a certain way*.
Because of what he is doing and the other transgender men and women he has brought into the spotlight, the hope is that many people young and old who are experiencing the same issue won't be so quick to want to end their lives.  If thats all this show accomplishes, I say God bless him.  But I shudder to think what some comments in here are doing to those reading who are transgender and how much it may push them back into the shadows in shame because people are too quick to put a negative spin on what they are watching.  I say give Cait the benefit of the doubt and look at the bigger picture.


----------



## michie

ByeKitty said:


> Yeah I don't doubt that she's transgender either... What reason is there to doubt this? I don't believe any "cis male" would go through transition purely for money. I also don't believe PMK, as [emoji317] as she is, could talk her husband into changing gender. Why would she, and why would he? There are other ways to stay in the news that require much less from him/her.


What "transtion" though? Caitlyn still has a penis, right? Transition's not complete thus far. One part of me is thinking Bruce is a cross-dresser, just as a lot of people are saying/suspecting. The world would honestly embrace him more as a hero by being transgender than just some weird cross-dressing "freak" from a circus family. So, he says he's always felt he should've been a woman, gets understanding/curiosity/sympathy/empathy/MONEY and gets to wear the dresses he loves. Everybody wins! Not saying this is Gospel, but all I see are pap walks, painted nails, kitten heels and ladies' dept fashions. JMO. Still looking to be proven wrong.


----------



## Encore Hermes

DC-Cutie said:


> anybody think Caitlyn and Candis will later tell the world they are dating?




Maybe for publicity but Candis likes men.


----------



## ByeKitty

michie said:


> What "transtion" though? Caitlyn still has a penis, right? Transition's not complete thus far. One part of me is thinking Bruce is a cross-dresser, just as a lot of people are saying/suspecting. The world would honestly embrace him more as a hero by being transgender than just some weird cross-dressing "freak" from a circus family. So, he says he's always felt he should've been a woman, gets understanding/curiosity/sympathy/empathy/MONEY and gets to wear the dresses he loves. Everybody wins! Not saying this is Gospel, but all I see are pap walks, painted nails, kitten heels and ladies' dept fashions. JMO. Still looking to be proven wrong.



Not sure if she actually had the reassignment surgery...don't think so actually. But she did get many facial "feminization" surgeries, and all of this at a higher age. But beyond the physical things, she has _come out as a woman_ - that must be quite something mentally, I'm not sure many non-trans men would be capable of doing that.


----------



## chowlover2

Encore Hermes said:


> Maybe for publicity but Candis likes men.




I think Candis is just doing it for publicity as well, to revitalize her acting career.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

michie said:


> ...The world would honestly embrace him more as a hero by being transgender than just some weird cross-dressing "freak" from a circus family. ....



Yikes.

Being transgender is more complex than having an entire sex change surgery.  Just because he does not have his penis removed does not make what he is going through less valid.  And using the term "freak" for a cross dresser is really mean.  They are not freaks.  They are people.  Its all about gender issues and what constitutes who a person is whether that means they have full gender reassignment or just wear different clothing.  Its about whats going on in their minds/souls/bodies.  We all struggle as humans.  I really think everyone needs to listen to what transgender people are saying about their own individual struggles and stop making hurtful comments about something you may not understand.  Thats the whole point of this series - to help people understand all the complexities of the issue and be more compassionate and see these people as human beings, not freaks.
In case it hasn't been assumed yet I do know a couple of people who struggle with transgender issues.  My thoughts come from my personal experience with them.


----------



## michie

bagnshoofetish said:


> Yikes.
> 
> Being transgender is more complex than having an entire sex change surgery.  Just because he does not have his penis removed does not make what he is going through less valid.  And using the term "freak" for a cross dresser is really mean.  They are not freaks.  They are people.  Its all about gender issues and what constitutes who a person is whether that means they have full gender reassignment or just wear different clothing.  Its about whats going on in their souls/bodies.  We all struggle as humans.  I really think everyone needs to listen to what transgender people are saying about their own individual struggles and stop making hurtful comments about something you may not understand.  *Thats the whole point of this series - to help people understand all the complexities of the issue and be more compassionate and see these people as human beings, not freaks.
> *In case it hasn't been assumed yet I do know a couple of people who struggle with transgender issues.  My thoughts come from my personal experience with them.



I didn't use the word "freak" to hurt anyone's feelings or disrespect a cross-dressing individual. Hence, I used the quotations.

And, judging by the comments of those who have "endured" _I Am Cait_, I don't really see anyone taking education or lessons from it. Like someone said, it's on the _E!_ network. That says enough.


----------



## queen

bagnshoofetish said:


> Yikes.
> 
> Being transgender is more complex than having an entire sex change surgery.  Just because he does not have his penis removed does not make what he is going through less valid.  And using the term "freak" for a cross dresser is really mean.  They are not freaks.  They are people.  Its all about gender issues and what constitutes who a person is whether that means they have full gender reassignment or just wear different clothing.  Its about whats going on in their minds/souls/bodies.  We all struggle as humans.  I really think everyone needs to listen to what transgender people are saying about their own individual struggles and stop making hurtful comments about something you may not understand.  Thats the whole point of this series - to help people understand all the complexities of the issue and be more compassionate and see these people as human beings, not freaks.
> In case it hasn't been assumed yet I do know a couple of people who struggle with transgender issues.  My thoughts come from my personal experience with them.


Sorry, I disagree.  I have met a transgender female who did have the surgery.  I knew immediately upon meeting her she was transgender.  I treated her as I would anyone else.  I was able to confirm she was trans by her online presence.  She was treated horribly and run out of one town with death threats.  I do not understand why someone would want or need to mutilate their body and take such abuse but I was kind and respectful.  I have not felt the same way about Jenner because she is not just trying to live her life dressing and acting as she wishes.  She is trying to make a fortune and get adulation and attention.  Her show and interviews have not shown me anything other than a selfish, self centered individual.  All the acts of hiding in the back of an Escalade to go into town when she is filming a show for national tv audience comes off as ridiculous.  She wants to be paid to show her face.  I have no problem with her living as she wishes just have no respect for someone playing this out in the media.  It is classless and makes me wonder what her real intention is.  She has said she is changing the world.  I personally don't want her changing the world to her way of life.  I would never have occasion to come in contact with her but if i did I would not treat her unkindly but I do not agree with the way she is doing this.  JMHO.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

queen said:


> Sorry, I disagree. ...I do not agree with the way she is doing this.  JMHO.



Thats okay.  You are entitled to the way you feel.  I just caution posters to think about what they are writing and think about how it might affect someone who has yet to come out.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

michie said:


> I didn't use the word "freak" to hurt anyone's feelings or disrespect a cross-dressing individual. Hence, I used the quotations.



I think I understand how you were saying it now. 



michie said:


> And, judging by the comments of those who have "endured" _I Am Cait_, I don't really see anyone taking education or lessons from it. Like someone said, it's on the _E!_ network. That says enough.



I have watched all the episodes and consider Cait as a vessel to bring other transgender people to the forefront to tell their stories.  I hope those who have watched have not missed the forest for the trees.

ETA: Cait almost recited verbatim the same sentiments as one of my transgender friends regarding still being attracted to women.  Its not about who you want to have sex with, its about who you feel you are as a person.  Remember, one of Caits friends is still married to "his" wife.


----------



## hermes_lemming

queen said:


> Sorry, I disagree.  I have met a transgender female who did have the surgery.  I knew immediately upon meeting her she was transgender.  I treated her as I would anyone else.  I was able to confirm she was trans by her online presence.  She was treated horribly and run out of one town with death threats.  I do not understand why someone would want or need to mutilate their body and take such abuse but I was kind and respectful.  I have not felt the same way about Jenner because she is not just trying to live her life dressing and acting as she wishes.  She is trying to make a fortune and get adulation and attention.  Her show and interviews have not shown me anything other than a selfish, self centered individual.  All the acts of hiding in the back of an Escalade to go into town when she is filming a show for national tv audience comes off as ridiculous.  She wants to be paid to show her face.  I have no problem with her living as she wishes just have no respect for someone playing this out in the media.  It is classless and makes me wonder what her real intention is.  She has said she is changing the world.  I personally don't want her changing the world to her way of life.  I would never have occasion to come in contact with her but if i did I would not treat her unkindly but I do not agree with the way she is doing this.  JMHO.


In her head, she is changing the world. Had she shown more empathy for others who are facing the same struggle but without the $$$, I would have more sympathy towards her. She has an obvious "I just don't give a d*mn" attitude to everyone else, unless it benefits her somehow. It's all very one sided IMO.

On a different note, yes unfortunately transgender is not very well received in my town and it's publicly known for being supposedly open minded. Towards gays, yes, and THAT took a while. But transgender, no. It's quite sad really.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

shiny_things said:


> I don't doubt she is transgender. I'm just disappointed in the lack of giving a damn about other people going through the same journey.



This.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I dont't think Bruce/Cait has ever given a damn about anybody else, look at how he left his wives and kids for the next... a few times over


----------



## Dallas_Girl

So how many have actually met Caitlynn/Bruce? Y'all seem to know her intentions and how she is. Or are you basing it off a reality show (which is heavily edited and not reality)

None of us know what is going on in her head or how she is feeling. I see people waiting to see her fall so they can laugh and say I told you so. Sorry but I will never get that mentality. I think people are allowed to fail and need room to be human. And I can have empathy for them.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Personally I feel as though CJ is doing a disservice to the transgender community. I wish Candis and the other rent a friends had their own show. That I could take serious, CJ, not for a minute. Not only do I think she's a fraud, I think she's a belligerent one at that.


----------



## michie

Dallas_Girl said:


> So how many have actually met Caitlynn/Bruce? Y'all seem to know her intentions and how she is. Or are you basing it off a reality show (which is heavily edited and not reality)
> 
> None of us know what is going on in her head or how she is feeling. I see people waiting to see her fall so they can laugh and say I told you so. Sorry but I will never get that mentality. I think people are allowed to fail and need room to be human. And I can have empathy for them.




Well, let's just shut the whole thread down right now. We don't know any of these people personally. This is the "Celebrity News & Gossip" sub forum. It's nothing but opinions and hearsay.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Dallas_Girl said:


> So how many have actually met Caitlynn/Bruce? Y'all seem to know her intentions and how she is. Or are you basing it off a reality show (which is heavily edited and not reality)
> 
> None of us know what is going on in her head or how she is feeling. I see people waiting to see her fall so they can laugh and say I told you so. Sorry but I will never get that mentality. I think people are allowed to fail and need room to be human. And I can have empathy for them.



are you for real?  you do realize the title of this thread, right?


----------



## Dallas_Girl

I'm entitled to my opinion. And I will never think it's ok to wait to laugh at someone's demise. But if that is for you, then continue on with the hateful comments and assumptions.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Personally I feel as though CJ is doing a disservice to the transgender community. I wish Candis and the other rent a friends had their own show. That I could take serious, CJ, not for a minute. Not only do I think she's a fraud, I think she's a belligerent one at that.




LOL @ 'rent friends'

I really like Chanda (I think that's her name, the black lady). She seems extremely grateful for the chance to tell the world what is like for her AND to tell Cait 'you gotta be real'.  actually like all of them, with the exception of Candis - I feel like she's been on a few reality shows and this is just another to her, not really adding much.,


----------



## DC-Cutie

Dallas_Girl said:


> I'm entitled to my opinion. And I will never think it's ok to wait to laugh at someone's demise. But if that is for you, then continue on with the hateful comments and assumptions.



reading some of your other posts, you do claim to know Kris, Kim, or Kanye's intentions or are you basing it off their reality show?


----------



## Dallas_Girl

DC-Cutie said:


> reading some of your other posts, you do claim to know Kris, Kim, or Kanye's intentions or are you basing it off their reality show?




I'm basing it off years of how they have been. And most of my comments on are on their actions (like kayne deciding to show at nyfw) or their clothes. I am not wishing to see them suffer. Or the bad photoshop jobs on their photos. 

I've said before, if I am wrong about Caitlynn and she is doing al this solely for the money. I will admit I was wrong. But she hasn't been Caitlynn long enough to truly know what her intentions/motives are. I have said time and time again, give her some breathing room and allow her to make missteps as she figures out this new life. 

I've also said that is is very mean for people to say that Kylie looks much better after ps and its a good thing she had it done because she was ugly before. 

But hey I'm the horrible one I guess.


----------



## michie

Dallas_Girl said:


> I'm basing it off years of how they have been. And most of my comments on are on their actions (like kayne deciding to show at nyfw) or their clothes. I am not wishing to see them suffer. Or the bad photoshop jobs on their photos.
> 
> *I've said before, if I am wrong about Caitlynn and she is doing al this solely for the money. I will admit I was wrong. *But she hasn't been Caitlynn long enough to truly know what her intentions/motives are. I have said time and time again, give her some breathing room and allow her to make missteps as she figures out this new life.
> 
> I've also said that is is very mean for people to say that Kylie looks much better after ps and its a good thing she had it done because she was ugly before.
> 
> But hey I'm the horrible one I guess.




It won't change anybody's else life if you're wrong about Caitlyn Jenner. 

And, Kylie's old face is old news. Some of us called her ugly before the PS. The changes she made to it only proves she somewhat felt the same way.


----------



## tweegy

Dallas_Girl said:


> *I'm basing it off years of how they have been. And most of my comments on are on their actions (like kayne deciding to show at nyfw) or their clothes.* I am not wishing to see them suffer. Or the bad photoshop jobs on their photos.
> 
> I've said before, if I am wrong about Caitlynn and she is doing al this solely for the money. I will admit I was wrong. But she hasn't been Caitlynn long enough to truly know what her intentions/motives are. I have said time and time again, give her some breathing room and allow her to make missteps as she figures out this new life.
> 
> I've also said that is is very mean for people to say that Kylie looks much better after ps and its a good thing she had it done because she was ugly before.
> 
> But hey I'm the horrible one I guess.



As are everyone else's opinions in here...just going by their actions and what they say. Positive or negative


----------



## DC-Cutie

Dallas_Girl said:


> But hey I'm the horrible one I guess.



you're not the horrible one.  However, just as your opinion is your, so is ours.

It's all good tho!

**pretty much the whole family is still cray cray and self-absorbed**


----------



## queen

Dallas_Girl said:


> I'm basing it off years of how they have been. And most of my comments on are on their actions (like kayne deciding to show at nyfw) or their clothes. I am not wishing to see them suffer. Or the bad photoshop jobs on their photos.
> 
> I've said before, if I am wrong about Caitlynn and she is doing al this solely for the money. I will admit I was wrong. But she hasn't been Caitlynn long enough to truly know what her intentions/motives are. I have said time and time again, give her some breathing room and allow her to make missteps as she figures out this new life.
> 
> I've also said that is is very mean for people to say that Kylie looks much better after ps and its a good thing she had it done because she was ugly before.
> 
> But hey I'm the horrible one I guess.


I am not normally a celebrity watcher but one has to be dead to not have heard the Kardashian/Jenner story.  I have commented on CJ as I feel what she is doing is harmful to society in general.  When she has taken her story to the public she opens herself up to comments.  She has to take what she gets be it support or criticism.  I would not be cruel to CJ or any of that family but I can still feel the self mutilation, self abuse, does  not make me feel sympathy for them but disgust for the shameless self centered actions they display.  When people are looking to them for role models it is scary to me.  I do not tell people how to live or what to wear but when they are in my face every day I find it offensive and that is why I have commented as I have in this thread.  I do not have to read or listen and I don't have to comment but if it is ok to put it out there I am guessing I can voice my displeasure.  That doesn't mean what I say means a thing to them or the readers here.  Just venting.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

I feel if Caitlyn needed/wanted breathing room she would've transitioned quietly, away from the media. Caitlyn still has the same brain as Bruce she knows how reality shows work.

People act as though she's a completely different person with a completely different thought process simply because she wants to change gender. He was on KUWTK for how long?


----------



## DC-Cutie

jimmyshoogirl said:


> I feel if Caitlyn needed/wanted breathing room she would've transitioned quietly, away from the media. Caitlyn still has the same brain as Bruce she knows how reality shows work.
> 
> People act as though she's a completely different person with a completely different thought process simply because she wants to change gender. He was on KUWTK for how long?



at least 10 years.  

He was a student of PMK, so he's just using what he's been using for the last 10 years - play it out in the media/TV & get paid for it


----------



## Dallas_Girl

DC-Cutie said:


> at least 10 years.
> 
> 
> 
> He was a student of PMK, so he's just using what he's been using for the last 10 years - play it out in the media/TV & get paid for it




This!!! And his view of what it means to be a women is skewed by being around all of them. 

I don't think she has found her step yet and is still figuring all of it out.  She has made blunders, no denying that. And if she proves for years to be just as self centered and vapid, then yeah i would be wrong in thinking the intentions were good. But realize society doesn't change when things are swept under the rug, I think the visibility of his change has gotten more people talking about transgender. And shining light in it gets the conversation going. I personally see that as positive.


----------



## DC-Cutie

so the name change ceremony at her house, was that just for show or is her name legally changed?


----------



## BrandSnob

Dallas_Girl said:


> I'm basing it off years of how they have been. And most of my comments on are on their actions (like kayne deciding to show at nyfw) or their clothes. I am not wishing to see them suffer. Or the bad photoshop jobs on their photos.
> 
> I've said before, if I am wrong about Caitlynn and she is doing al this solely for the money. I will admit I was wrong. But she hasn't been Caitlynn long enough to truly know what her intentions/motives are. I have said time and time again, give her some breathing room and allow her to make missteps as she figures out this new life.
> 
> I've also said that is is very mean for people to say that Kylie looks much better after ps and its a good thing she had it done because she was ugly before.
> 
> But hey I'm the horrible one I guess.




People are allowed to state their opinions and shouldn't have to be bullied into being "PC" about it. Everyone can call Kim a whore and Kris a gold digger but as soon as people say something about Bruce/Caitlyn they're a horrible person?
And you're justifying your words by saying you're basing it off their actions. I'm pretty sure most of what has been said is based of BJ/CJs actions such as the exact words he spoke on camera and his huffing and puffing, trying to victimize himself by saying his family doesn't call, and dismissive attitude which cannot all be blamed on "editing." On the finale when Kris was talking and all he had to say was well a call would've been nice, that's him trying not to look like the bad guy and trying to make them look bad when a phone call works both ways. 
Furthermore according to Bruce/Caitlyn he's felt like Caitlyn his whole life and has always been a woman on the inside. She herself says "it's the same me," etc. So I don't get the whole she hasn't been Caitlyn long enough thing. She's still the same person on the inside. Now she has to hide it even more so themed is wont hate her (ie her saying she was just ok with gay marriage then a few days after the Ellen show backlash retracting and saying she fully supports and understands it)


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

DC-Cutie said:


> at least 10 years.
> 
> 
> 
> He was a student of PMK, so he's just using what he's been using for the last 10 years - play it out in the media/TV & get paid for it




My point exactly.


----------



## Encore Hermes

DC-Cutie said:


> so the name change ceremony at her house, was that just for show or is her name legally changed?



I'm curious too. Driver's license,  SSN, etc. and most important, the country club membership.
We know her g club bag still says Bruce Jenner.


When she was filming the Today show interview, golfing did any one notice if she had a bag with her name? Because that I assume would have been taped before the pic at westlake public course when she was using the bag with the old name.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Encore Hermes said:


> I'm curious too. Driver's license,  SSN, etc. and most important, the country club membership.
> We know her g club bag still says Bruce Jenner.
> 
> 
> When she was filming the Today show interview, golfing did any one notice if she had a bag with her name? Because that I assume would have been taped before the pic at westlake public course when she was using the bag with the old name.



The reason I ask is because in one of the episodes, others in the community talked about how long it can take to legally change their names.  So I hope she wasn't given preferential treatment/fast tracked.  That would be a total slap in the face


----------



## Encore Hermes

Good point ^

Btw, did any of her family go to the name changing episode? I read that she was hurt that she wasn't invited to Kylie's graduation so I assume at least the youngest were there sharing the moment with her. 

Odd if Kylie didn't insist that Cait was at her party. Unless it was only for filming and Cait isn't in the series this season.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

BrandSnob said:


> People are allowed to state their opinions and shouldn't have to be bullied into being "PC" about it. Everyone can call Kim a whore and Kris a gold digger but as soon as people say something about Bruce/Caitlyn they're a horrible person?
> And you're justifying your words by saying you're basing it off their actions. I'm pretty sure most of what has been said is based of BJ/CJs actions such as the exact words he spoke on camera and his huffing and puffing, trying to victimize himself by saying his family doesn't call, and dismissive attitude which cannot all be blamed on "editing." On the finale when Kris was talking and all he had to say was well a call would've been nice, that's him trying not to look like the bad guy and trying to make them look bad when a phone call works both ways.
> Furthermore according to Bruce/Caitlyn he's felt like Caitlyn his whole life and has always been a woman on the inside. She herself says "it's the same me," etc. So I don't get the whole she hasn't been Caitlyn long enough thing. She's still the same person on the inside. Now she has to hide it even more so themed is wont hate her (ie her saying she was just ok with gay marriage then a few days after the Ellen show backlash retracting and saying she fully supports and understands it)




If it's PC to give empathy to someone going through a huge life change, then I will be PC all day long. It is one thing to feel like a woman in the inside, but it is quite different to be one and have the world treat you like a woman. It takes some adjustment. 

Was it a misstep on the Ellen show, yes. But isn't that PC to assume she will suddenly be rallying for gay marriage. She is coming around and slowly changing her worldview. Not everything is immediate. And no one is perfect. 

There seems to be the level of Caitlynn should act this way and do this and if she doesn't then it's all an act and it's all about the money. People do things all the time when certain intentions but others view it differently.


----------



## redney

Dallas_Girl said:


> Was it a misstep on the Ellen show, yes. But isn't that PC to assume *she will suddenly be rallying for gay marriage. *She is coming around and slowly changing her worldview. Not everything is immediate. And no one is perfect.



Well, looky looky what Cait said yesterday. Bolding mine for emphasis.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...rifies-thoughts-on-same-sex-marriage--2015149

 Caitlyn Jenner Clarifies Thoughts on Same-Sex Marriage: "Everyone Should Be Able to Marry the Person They Love"
  Celebrity News Sep. 14, 2015 AT 9:16PM By Sierra Marquina

  Caitlyn Jenner has learned a lot through her own history-making journey. In a new blog posted to her website on Monday, Sept. 14, the transgender star clarified her stance on marriage equality following a recent interview with Ellen DeGeneres.

  "I'm a traditionalist. I'm older than most people in the audience. I kind of like tradition, and it's always been a man and a woman. I'm thinking, 'I don't quite get it, the 65-year-old former Olympic gold medalist admitted on The Ellen DeGeneres Show on Sept. 8, in her first TV interview since coming out on the cover of Vanity Fair.

*In her Sept. 14 post, the I Am Cait star clarified her remarks, explaining that through her own transition, shes learned to better understand discrimination.*

*"Like many people, there was a time when I didn't realize how important it is for gay couples to have the right to get married. But after hearing from my gay friends and learning more about the hardships they faced because of discrimination, it became clear to me that everyone should be able to marry the person they love, Jenner wrote. I can only hope that by sharing my story, there's someone out there whose mind has been changed about trans people."*

  Because regardless of whether you are transgender or not, we all have stuff to deal with in our lives, she continued. To have the courage to overcome obstacles and be your authentic self is an amazing process to go through. I want you to believe in yourself and know that you can deal with it. You can be okay.

  Jenner documented her transition via her E! reality series which aired its finale on Sunday. Im going to take a breather for a minute, Kris Jenners ex concluded her post. I want to continue to grow as a person. In so many ways I feel like Im a teenage girl discovering herself! Im still trying to figure out what it means to be a woman and I will continue that process. Because you know what? Its a lot of fun!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Encore Hermes said:


> Good point ^
> 
> Btw, did any of her family go to the name changing episode? I read that she was hurt that she wasn't invited to Kylie's graduation so I assume at least the youngest were there sharing the moment with her.
> 
> Odd if Kylie didn't insist that Cait was at her party. Unless it was only for filming and Cait isn't in the series this season.



I think I saw some of the older children there - but of course none of the Kardashians or Kendall, Kylie...  Rob should have popped up!!  LOL


----------



## ByeKitty

DC-Cutie said:


> at least 10 years.
> 
> He was a student of PMK, so he's just using what he's been using for the last 10 years - play it out in the media/TV & get paid for it



KUWTK started in '07 right?


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Dallas_Girl said:


> So how many have actually met Caitlynn/Bruce? Y'all seem to know her intentions and how she is. Or are you basing it off a reality show (which is heavily edited and not reality)
> 
> None of us know what is going on in her head or how she is feeling. I see people waiting to see her fall so they can laugh and say I told you so. Sorry but I will never get that mentality.* I think people are allowed to fail and need room to be human. And I can have empathy for them*.



Absolutely.

There is no manual on how to "come out".  Its different for everyone.  And I too don't understand where people are getting that Cait doesn't care for anyone else but herself.  She is very stoic and a little sarcastic.  Thats just her personality and always has been IMO.  She seems very overwhelmed.  She is trying hard to find her place in the world and she admittedly does not have all the answers for herself so why she is expected to have answers and the reaction everyone wants her to have towards others all the time?  You would have to be inside her head to know what she is thinking and feeling.  Not everyone puts it out there.  Look at his step daughter Kourtney - talk about a stoic person.  She cares about others but does not show it.  Some people are guarded like that.  I personally will never let people see me cry.  That does not mean I don't care.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Dallas_Girl said:


> I'm entitled to my opinion. And I will never think it's ok to wait to laugh at someone's demise. But if that is for you, then continue on with the hateful comments and assumptions.



Sorry but I have to back Dallas Girl on this one.  Are we only supposed to comment in celeb threads if we have nasty things to say about them?  Is that the rule?  I generally stay out of the celeb forums for that very reason especially if it is a thread about someone I know.  In other threads in TPF its not okay to be catty but in these threads its open season as if these people were not real people.  I can see the humor in comments about what someone is wearing but to tear someones character apart based on limited info is strange and I can only guess it fulfills some kind of need to make one feel better about themselves.  Sorry, but thats how I feel about all this.  I came into this thread because of the people who are dear to me who are going through the same thing and if anyone who is going through it and identifies with Cait for any reason and it helps them then reading how people think she is a fraud and this and that is only going to bring them down too and keep themselves under wraps more for fear of the same scrutiny.


----------



## queen

bagnshoofetish said:


> Sorry but I have to back Dallas Girl on this one.  Are we only supposed to comment in celeb threads if we have nasty things to say about them?  Is that the rule?  I generally stay out of the celeb forums for that very reason especially if it is a thread about someone I know.  In other threads in TPF its not okay to be catty but in these threads its open season as if these people were not real people.  I can see the humor in comments about what someone is wearing but to tear someones character apart based on limited info is strange and I can only guess it fulfills some kind of need to make one feel better about themselves.  Sorry, but thats how I feel about all this.  I came into this thread because of the people who are dear to me who are going through the same thing and if anyone who is going through it and identifies with Cait for any reason and it helps them then reading how people think she is a fraud and this and that is only going to bring them down too and keep themselves under wraps more for fear of the same scrutiny.


Same goes for accusing people of tearing others apart to feel better about themselves.  Are you confident that is why some have made disparaging remarks or is it just retaliatory?  I know people who would be crushed to have someone use their clothing choices as a source of humor, so if we are being nice then we won't do that either.  Again, I will say when you put yourself out there in a big way you may get criticism.  I believe she stated at the ESPY's she could take it.  Jenner has been around and knows the score she did not just fall into this she has a plan and she has a right to it.  It is still a free country.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

queen said:


> Same goes for accusing people of tearing others apart to feel better about themselves.  Are you confident that is why some have made disparaging remarks or is it just retaliatory?  I know people who would be crushed to have someone use their clothing choices as a source of humor, so if we are being nice then we won't do that either.  Again, I will say when you put yourself out there in a big way you may get criticism.  I believe she stated at the ESPY's she could take it.  Jenner has been around and knows the score she did not just fall into this she has a plan and she has a right to it.  It is still a free country.




Quite sadly the comment I made about people feeling better about themselves by bashing others is how I really feel.  Pointing out how some comments sound mean is not the same as outright calling someone a fraud.  And just because someone "puts themselves out there" does not give anyone the license to be cruel.  But if that is what this thread is about then I will bow out of it.  I don't think less of anyone in here.  It just hurts my heart because Cait could be someone you know it might know someday.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

"OR might know".  (iPhone won't let me edit!)


----------



## tweegy

It doesn't give people the right. But you can't control or censor everyone to agree or have the same line of thought just cause you don't agree. Acceptance goes both ways. 

I don't care either way just sayin...

And at the end of the day... We're all leaving posts on a celebrity gossip thread on a online forum dedicated to handbags... Is it really worth getting into it with someone over?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I found it odd on the last episode that CJ admitted to Kris that when CJ left Kris she didn't have plans or know that she was going to transition. I got the impression that it was a spur of the moment, impulsive decision. How could she not know?? Just what were her plans then? Just another reason why I think she's going to regret it and go back to living as Bruce.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I found it odd on the last episode that CJ admitted to Kris that when CJ left Kris she didn't have plans or know that she was going to transition. I got the impression that it was a spur of the moment, impulsive decision. How could she not know?? Just what were her plans then? Just another reason why I think she's going to regret it and go back to living as Bruce.




Aye I caught when she said that! I was confused too!


----------



## bagnshoofetish

tweegy said:


> It doesn't give people the right. But you can't control or censor everyone to agree or have the same line of thought just cause you don't agree. Acceptance goes both ways.
> 
> I don't care either way just sayin...
> 
> And at the end of the day... We're all leaving posts on a celebrity gossip thread on a online forum dedicated to handbags... Is it really worth getting into it with someone over?




Not trying to control or get into it.  Just want people to think.  I don't know what being a bag forum has to do with anything.  It doesn't matter why we are here.

Carry on.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bagnshoofetish said:


> Quite sadly the comment I made about people feeling better about themselves by bashing others is how I really feel.  *Pointing out how some comments sound mean is not the same as outright calling someone a fraud. * And just because someone "puts themselves out there" does not give anyone the license to be cruel.  But if that is what this thread is about then I will bow out of it.  I don't think less of anyone in here.  It just hurts my heart because Cait could be someone you know it might know someday.



I'll be the first to admit that I call(ed) CJ a fraud but for the record, *once again *that does NOT mean I think everyone that transitions is a fake/fraud. It is unfair to expect everyone to include CJ in a group and not be able to single her out when discussing her choices. Even her friends on the show called her out for not being a part of them and their community so why should the public be expected to take her at her word?
This is a Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner gossip thread.
 This is NOT a transgender support group thread. Huge difference.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Coach Lover Too said:


> I found it odd on the last episode that CJ admitted to Kris that when CJ left Kris she didn't have plans or know that she was going to transition. I got the impression that it was a spur of the moment, impulsive decision. How could she not know?? Just what were her plans then? Just another reason why I think she's going to regret it and go back to living as Bruce.




This is what I mean by people not understanding.  Transitioning is not a spur of the moment decision.  Getting a part of your body removed is a huge decision.  It is radical surgery and you can die.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'll be the first to admit that I call(ed) CJ a fraud but for the record, *once again *that does NOT mean I think everyone that transitions is a fake/fraud. It is unfair to expect everyone to include CJ in a group and not be able to single her out when discussing her choices. Even her friends on the show called her out for not being a part of them and their community so why should the public be expected to take her at her word?
> This is a Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner gossip thread.
> This is NOT a transgender support group thread. Huge difference.




They didn't say she wasn't part of the community.  They said she didn't understand  the struggles of what unprivileged people  go through.  They still support her and are trying to help her.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

And I know this isn't a support group.  But the issue is important and if only a certain opinion is welcomed here then that is also
censorship.


----------



## tweegy

bagnshoofetish said:


> And I know this isn't a support group.  But the issue is important and if only a certain opinion is welcomed here then that is also
> censorship.




Girl, I don't know what you're reading when you read here. 

But good luck to you. [emoji106]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bagnshoofetish said:


> And I know this isn't a support group.  But the issue is important and if only a certain opinion is welcomed here then that is also
> censorship.



Oh trust me, the opinion I have is not the same opinion of the majority of the people that post (or were posting here.)
I completely understand the issue is important to a lot of people, however it's hard to take anything too serious that comes out of CJ's mouth.


----------



## poopsie

I peek in here about once a month

SSDD


----------



## bagnshoofetish

tweegy said:


> Girl, I don't know what you're reading when you read here.
> 
> But good luck to you. [emoji106]




Whatevs.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh trust me, the opinion I have is not the same opinion of the majority of the people that post (or were posting here.)
> I completely understand the issue is important to a lot of people, however it's hard to take anything too serious that comes out of CJ's mouth.




Okay.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh trust me, the opinion I have is not the same opinion of the majority of the people that post (or were posting here.)
> I completely understand the issue is important to a lot of people, however it's hard to take anything too serious that comes out of CJ's mouth.



I for one, don't come here very often anymore because its always the same tired a$$ debates.


----------



## tweegy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I for one, don't come here very often anymore because its always the same tired a$$ debates.




Yup, no matter what. Someone's bunion is gonna get stepped on...


----------



## ByeKitty

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I for one, don't come here very often anymore because its always the same tired a$$ debates.



This! I have better things to do than to repeat my opinion all the time in this thread... I'm sure this goes for many others that are not necessarily Caitlyn-fans but would be cutting her some slack a mere 4 months after coming out as transgender.


----------



## littlerock

ByeKitty said:


> This! I have better things to do than to repeat my opinion all the time in this thread... I'm sure this goes for many others that are not necessarily Caitlyn-fans *but would be cutting her some slack a mere 4 months after coming out as transgender*.



But, it's just for the money, doll. Because there is so much $$$ in being a C-list transgendered reality star.


----------



## ByeKitty

littlerock said:


> But, it's just for the money, doll. Because there is so much $$$ in being a C-list transgendered reality star.



 Right! And cut her slack for what? She's wealthy!


----------



## queen

bagnshoofetish said:


> Quite sadly the comment I made about people feeling better about themselves by bashing others is how I really feel.  Pointing out how some comments sound mean is not the same as outright calling someone a fraud.  And just because someone "puts themselves out there" does not give anyone the license to be cruel.  But if that is what this thread is about then I will bow out of it.  I don't think less of anyone in here.  It just hurts my heart because Cait could be someone you know it might know someday.


People have different opinions.  My opinion of CJ is based on things that have come from her own mouth.  She is the one who said it is all about her now.  She is the one who has complimented her own looks and on tv said she wanted to see who could wear the dress the best, she or her ex wife.  Not everyone agrees that her choices are the best for her family.  I have heard her say if the ex had been more ok with her choices she would still be there.  So things like this make her seem very self centered.  If these things had not been publicized I would never have heard them.  So she can do as she pleases but everybody does not have to go along to suit her or her friends.  I am doing nothing to her and never would but if she comments then others may also.  When you state you are changing the world, the world may have some feed back.  Because she is transgender does not make her protected from her own speech and actions.  We all have feelings.  A  lot of people are going thru difficult times and that could be any of us on this thread.  CJ is not the only one we need to be considerate of.  I hope to leave it at that.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bagnshoofetish said:


> This is what I mean by people not understanding.  Transitioning is not a spur of the moment decision.  Getting a part of your body removed is a huge decision.  It is radical surgery and you can die.





bagnshoofetish said:


> They didn't say she wasn't part of the community.  They said she didn't understand  the struggles of what unprivileged people  go through.  They still support her and are trying to help her.



If you get the chance, you might want to watch the last episode of I Am Cait because CJ said herself (to Kris) that she had no plans on doing and being where she is right now (when she left the marriage). That to me sounds as though the transitioning decision happened somewhat suddenly.

I'm also unaware of her having any radical surgery besides breast implants. I don't think she's fully transitioned at this point. Maybe you have some knowledge of that but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> People have different opinions.  My opinion of CJ is based on things that have come from her own mouth.  She is the one who said it is all about her now.  She is the one who has complimented her own looks and on tv said she wanted to see who could wear the dress the best, she or her ex wife.  Not everyone agrees that her choices are the best for her family.  I have heard her say if the ex had been more ok with her choices she would still be there.  So things like this make her seem very self centered.  If these things had not been publicized I would never have heard them.  So she can do as she pleases but everybody does not have to go along to suit her or her friends.  I am doing nothing to her and never would but if she comments then others may also.  When you state you are changing the world, the world may have some feed back.  Because she is transgender does not make her protected from her own speech and actions.  We all have feelings.  A  lot of people are going thru difficult times and that could be any of us on this thread.  CJ is not the only one we need to be considerate of.  I hope to leave it at that.



Well said.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I for one, don't come here very often anymore because its always the same tired a$$ debates.



Maybe we should just let the thread die down or better yet, I loved the idea of moving the K's and J's threads together. That way we can b*tch about ALL of them at once. Either one works for me.


----------



## floatinglili

I don't begrudge CJ saying it is 'all about her' now. As an adult and parent myself most of my day is about facilitating others in their day to day. 
It is common for older people to say similar things about it 'being their time' when the expectations of caring for family members etc has been put aside. 
I remember when Bruce had an  Olympic 'hall of fame' event and in my recollection the kids initially couldn't be bothered getting involved. No surprises there, typical family dynamic. 
But those kinds of experiences lead an older person to celebrate their 'me time' and I don't think CJ should be castigated for feeling similar. 

I see that making the change at any age would be incredibly difficult. CJ's relatively late age would have both benefits and disadvantages in terms of the emotional journey I guess. 
I am surprised at how CJ's tentative exploration of same sex marriage has been picked up on so voraciously. As I mentioned earlier, there are many nuances in terms of political and social thought, and one need not be a screaming homophobe to be supportive of a traditional view of marriage or parent hood. Every gay person was conceived by a man and a woman after all. 
Because of the minority positioning of gLTG people there seems strong peer pressure for all members of the club to fall in lock step with all elements of a progressive social agenda. But many GLTG people are 'expert individualists' (my term lol) and will not fit a mould. Dolce and gabbana are just a high level example of people who think for themselves and reserve the right to continue to do so. A fairly famous conservative Australian commentator, Christopher Pearson, was another. There are many more conservatives out there in the gLTG community. I'm sorry if that shocks anyone or upsets anyone that I'm saying this. But I find the variation in personal and political thought rather refreshing.


----------



## poopsie

Coach Lover Too said:


> Maybe we should just let the thread die down or better yet, I loved the idea of moving the K's and J's threads together. That way we can b*tch about ALL of them at once. Either one works for me.




No. Please, just no. I do NOT want to have the PC crap I see on this thread shoved down my throat on a combined thread. Like I said----I look in here about once a month and it is still untenable. I like the separate threads. That way I can avoid the ones I have little interest in (Kourt---is that you?)


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Maybe we should just let the thread die down or better yet, I loved the idea of moving the K's and J's threads together. That way we can b*tch about ALL of them at once. Either one works for me.




Why let the thread simmer? Cause folks who preaching equality and tolerance can't heed their advice? lol That doesn't make sense...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

poopsie said:


> No. Please, just no. I do NOT want to have the PC crap I see on this thread shoved down my throat on a combined thread. Like I said----I look in here about once a month and it is still untenable. I like the separate threads. That way I can avoid the ones I have little interest in (*Kourt---is that you*?)



What gave it away?!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Why let the thread simmer? Cause folks who preaching equality and tolerance can't heed their advice? lol That doesn't make sense...



Just trying to appease the ones that say this thread is the same ole, same ole. Unlike the other threads where gawd knows there's never enough comments about big a**es, lips and *beards*.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

No-one has to appease anyone. It was posted as to why some regulars no longer post. I answered. Simple.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just trying to appease the ones that say this thread is the same ole, same ole. Unlike the other threads where gawd knows there's never enough comments about big a**es, lips and *beards*.




Lol, These things always repeat... Can't please everyone.. 

Im one I like all opinions whether I will agree with you or raise an eyebrow at you..


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> No-one has to appease anyone. It was posted as to why some regulars no longer post. I answered. Simple.



No problem. Apparently some of us post enough for everyone.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Kris and Bruce separated 2 years ago. I know according to the show and all that it doesn't seem like that long ago. 

So Caitlynn's statement may be very much true


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Caitlyn Jenner Is Legally Changing Her Name and Gender, Fears Threats of Physical Abuse

*

Shes making it official.
*Caitlyn Jenner* has reportedly filed legal documents in the L.A. County Superior Court on Tuesday, Sept. 15 to change her name from Bruce to Caitlyn, and her gender from male to female.
_TMZ _reports that the LGBT activist is fearful of providing the required information such as her medical history due to threats of physical harm that she has received. She is requesting that the judge keep her personal info private to avoid any further conflict.


http://www.celebuzz.com/2015-09-15/caitlyn-jenner-is-legally-changing-her-name-and-gender-fears-threats-of-physical-abuse/?utm_source=sc-tw&utm_medium=ref&utm_campaign=caitlynjenner


----------



## blackkitty4378

People can have whatever beliefs they want, but when they use a certain belief to justify other people not getting rights, while they're not even holding up to their own purported beliefs I can see how that can be really frustrating to people.

And, if you take a look at Caitlyn's past, you can see that she has several strikes against being "traditional" besides being transgender, but I'm not going to get further into it. People can look and decide for themselves.


----------



## floatinglili

blackkitty4378 said:


> People can have whatever beliefs they want, but when they use a certain belief to justify other people not getting rights, while they're not even holding up to their own purported beliefs I can see how that can be really frustrating to people.
> 
> And, if you take a look at Caitlyn's past, you can see that she has several strikes against being "traditional" besides being transgender, but I'm not going to get further into it. People can look and decide for themselves.



I guess what I am saying is that people should not really be asked to publicly justify their personal positions, to anyone. For example, Elton John felt entitled to try and lead a boycott against Dolce and Gabanna when D&G's 'transgressive statement' was really an interview response about their own personal positions regarding motherhood, and how that fed into their creativity. D&G weren't trying to lead an outright political charge anywhere. 

Even the assumption that to deny changing marriage definitions is akin to 'denying rights' is a charged statement, when you consider that in many countries such as Australia, registered gay domestic partnerships have the same legal rights as married couples. 'Denying rights' is not the same as pleading for absolutely mainstream social acceptance, is it? 

I don't really want to wade into this debate. But you can't line up every conservative GLBT and shoot them for not falling into a progressive line. They have an intelligence and an nuanced argument to add to the discussion.


----------



## blackkitty4378

floatinglili said:


> I guess what I am saying is that people should not really be asked to publicly justify their personal positions, to anyone. For example, Elton John felt entitled to try and lead a boycott against Dolce and Gabanna when D&G's 'transgressive statement' was really an interview response about their own personal positions regarding motherhood, and how that fed into their creativity. D&G weren't trying to lead an outright political charge anywhere.
> 
> Even the assumption that to deny changing marriage definitions is akin to 'denying rights' is a charged statement, when you consider that in many countries such as Australia, registered gay domestic partnerships have the same legal rights as married couples. 'Denying rights' is not the same as pleading for absolutely mainstream social acceptance, is it?
> 
> I don't really want to wade into this debate. But you can't line up every *conservative GLBT and shoot them for not falling into a progressive line*. They have an intelligence and an nuanced argument to add to the discussion.



Lol not what I'm doing at all. Even as an exaggeration, it's a bit dramatic.

She's asking for human rights for herself and her own community, though. That's where it's iffy for me.

I guess I'll just never understand someone asking for rights and not wanting others of *similar* circumstances to have rights, too. I try really hard to understand that mentality, but it escapes me. Seems regressive to your own cause.

I don't want to get into this debate, either. I've said my piece more than enough. People are on polar opposite sides it seems.


----------



## queen

When you try to bring about change and open your life up to the public there is bound to be conversation.  In recent tv shows she balked at using the name Caitlyn to get things to happen in her way and time.  Now she is petitioning for a legal name change and protection of her records as she fears for her life.  Perhaps she should have thought of those things before she appeared on DS interview, Vanity Fair cover and the series, I am Cait.  I sincerely hope no one would attempt to do her any harm but feel she should have thought of this earlier.  It seems a bunch of drama that might have been avoided had she done her transition more privately.  I believe in her series she mentioned not knowing the fear others did as she had security.


----------



## floatinglili

Oh I'm sorry i should have taken more care rather than just tossing that out. I didn't mean you personally obviously. I really was thinking of Elton John and his boycott attempt, amongst other powerful attempts to shut down any dissent on what is actually quite a nuanced debate. 
Let's not forget that until only recently, marriage itself was seen by progressives as complete tainted and not worth saving or respecting at all. 






blackkitty4378 said:


> Lol not what I'm doing at all. Even as an exaggeration, it's a bit dramatic.
> 
> 
> 
> She's asking for human rights for herself and her own community, though. That's where it's iffy for me.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'll just never understand someone asking for rights and not wanting others of *similar* circumstances to have rights, too. I try really hard to understand that mentality, but it escapes me. Seems regressive to your own cause.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to get into this debate, either. I've said my piece more than enough. People are on polar opposite sides it seems.




Oh I'm sorry i should have taken more care rather than just tossing that out. I didn't mean you personally obviously. I really was thinking of Elton John and his boycott attempt, amongst other powerful attempts to shut down any dissent on what is actually quite a nuanced debate. 
Let's not forget that until only recently, marriage itself was seen by progressives as complete tainted and not worth saving or respecting at all.


----------



## pukasonqo

as i said before, if bruce was a self centered egoist then caitlyn will be a self centered egoist, being transgender does not necessary means that she has become a better person 
she might become more aware of the difficulties of being transgender but she would never be in the same boat as a LGBT person trying to come out in a slum, she has $$$ and a comfortable life but no all transgender experiences have to be the same


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Coach Lover Too said:


> If you get the chance, you might want to watch the last episode of I Am Cait because CJ said herself (to Kris) that she had no plans on doing and being where she is right now (when she left the marriage). That to me sounds as though the transitioning decision happened somewhat suddenly.
> 
> I'm also unaware of her having any radical surgery besides breast implants. I don't think she's fully transitioned at this point. Maybe you have some knowledge of that but I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere.



No no no.  I did not mean to imply she has had the surgery.  What I meant was that she does not know if she is going to go through with having her genitals redone.  She doesn't know what happens next in her life or what tomorrow brings.  She didn't know if she was going to be able to finally live as who she really is.  That all.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

queen said:


> People have different opinions.  My opinion of CJ is based on things that have come from her own mouth.  She is the one who said it is all about her now.  She is the one who has complimented her own looks and on tv said she wanted to see who could wear the dress the best, she or her ex wife.  Not everyone agrees that her choices are the best for her family.  I have heard her say if the ex had been more ok with her choices she would still be there.  So things like this make her seem very self centered.  If these things had not been publicized I would never have heard them.  So she can do as she pleases but everybody does not have to go along to suit her or her friends.  I am doing nothing to her and never would but if she comments then others may also.  When you state you are changing the world, the world may have some feed back.  Because she is transgender does not make her protected from her own speech and actions.  We all have feelings.  A  lot of people are going thru difficult times and that could be any of us on this thread.  CJ is not the only one we need to be considerate of.  I hope to leave it at that.



I guess its all perception.  I don't take anything she said as a negative or self centered way at all.  I get what she means because as I stated the transgender person in my life (who has not come out - only to me) has echoed most everything she is saying down to the idea of the wife being on board.  There are transgenders who are still married and their wife has accepted who they are (ie; Caits friend - can't think of her name, who remains married).  If she talks loosely about how she looks or joking about who wears a dress better its just that.  People joke like that when they are insecure.  She is like a giddy teenager just coming into her own.


----------



## ByeKitty

pukasonqo said:


> as i said before, if bruce was a self centered egoist then caitlyn will be a self centered egoist, being transgender does not necessary means that she has become a better person
> she might become more aware of the difficulties of being transgender but she would never be in the same boat as a LGBT person trying to come out in a slum, she has $$$ and a comfortable life but no all transgender experiences have to be the same



Obviously, but I believe that the level to which an environment is accepting is more important than financial resources in how difficult it is to come out. And before coming out, the acceptance is hard to estimate, people have to base themselves on perception.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Wow.  Okay.  

So after reading subsequent posts in here as long as we all are on the CJ bashing bandwagon our comments are not welcome and we are accused of shoving PC ideas down others throats, commenting too much, etc.  

Got it.  Thought it was possible to have a mature exchange in here.  What was I thinking?


----------



## bagnshoofetish

.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bagnshoofetish said:


> Wow.  Okay.
> 
> So after reading subsequent posts in here as long as we all are on the CJ bashing bandwagon our comments are not welcome and we are accused of shoving PC ideas down others throats, commenting too much, etc.
> 
> Got it.  Thought it was possible to have a mature exchange in here.  What was I thinking?



I beg to differ. My opinion is that as long as you're here to support CJ and every asinine comment she says or does then it's all good. This is the ONLY thread on a celebrity news/gossip site that people that have a difference of opinion are ridiculed, shamed and referred to as transphobic. Every single celebrity on this site is a free for all and everything goes except this one. 
This thread should come with a warning: Proceed with caution.

Bless Caitlyn's heart.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Coach Lover Too said:


> ..My opinion is that as long as you're here to support CJ and every asinine comment she says or does then it's all good. .



I for one don't think that.  I only wish that differing points of view be respected not ridiculed.  I have not ridiculed anyones opinion in here with snarky comments.  I have only offered a counterpoint.

I have nothing against you CoachLover.  I respect your POV.  I just think that when some posters do not have a productive reply in here they go straight to sarcasm and jabbing.

I said my piece though.  I will respectfully leave the thread so it can continue on its preferred course.  :salute:


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bagnshoofetish said:


> I for one don't think that.  I only wish that differing points of view be respected not ridiculed.  I have not ridiculed anyones opinion in here with snarky comments.  I have only offered a counterpoint.
> 
> I have nothing against you CoachLover.  I respect your POV.  I just think that when some posters do not have a productive reply in here they go straight to sarcasm and jabbing.
> 
> I said my piece though.  I will respectfully leave the thread so it can continue on its preferred course.  :salute:



I agree with you and I too think both sides of view should be welcome here. I would hope you wouldn't leave because I agree there's room here for everyone. I've read comments by some that the reason they don't post here is because of the ridicule they receive. I'm all for differences of opinions but not for personal attacks (and no, that isn't directed towards you). 
I hope you reconsider and continue to give your input.


----------



## queen

bagnshoofetish said:


> I guess its all perception.  I don't take anything she said as a negative or self centered way at all.  I get what she means because as I stated the transgender person in my life (who has not come out - only to me) has echoed most everything she is saying down to the idea of the wife being on board.  There are transgenders who are still married and their wife has accepted who they are (ie; Caits friend - can't think of her name, who remains married).  If she talks loosely about how she looks or joking about who wears a dress better its just that.  People joke like that when they are insecure.  She is like a giddy teenager just coming into her own.


I agree that it is perception and ours are different.  Each has her own right to evaluate the situation as they see it.  I am taking her at her word.  You are making allowances.  Unless you know her how can you possibly know her remarks are from insecurity?  I respect your opinion just don't share it.  I have only looked into her situation online since she proclaimed she was going to change the world.  I am not sure a KUWTK alum is who I want to change the world.


----------



## lizmil

queen said:


> I agree that it is perception and ours are different.  Each has her own right to evaluate the situation as they see it.  I am taking her at her word.  You are making allowances.  Unless you know her how can you possibly know her remarks are from insecurity?  I respect your opinion just don't share it.  I have only looked into her situation online since she proclaimed she was going to change the world.  I am not sure a KUWTK alum is who I want to change the world.


Can't bold on my phone, but the last sentence says it all.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

First I've heard that Robert Kardashian knew of Bruce Jenner's cross dressing.

*Kim Kardashian Relives the Moment She Found Caitlyn Jenner Dressed Up Like a Woman: Heels, Wig, Makeup and All*

*
*
*Kim Kardashian* is using her new website for more than just makeup tutorials and selfies.
In a new KimKardashianWest.com blog post called From the Desk Of: About Caitlyn, the reality star shared a first-person essay, giving her own detailed perspective on*Caitlyn Jenner*s transition through the years.


In the essay, she opens up about the time she found Jenner (then known as *Bruce*)dressed up like a woman 13  years ago. She elaborates on her personal experience because she thinks  its important for others who dont really understand because maybe  [her] story can help anyone else experiencing something similar.My  mom was out of town with my little sisters, visiting my grandmother in  San Diego, and I was living with her and Bruce at the time in  Calabasas. I came home from a friends house and walked into the garage  and Bruce was there, dressed up as a woman. Heels, wig, makeup and all! I  dont remember specifically what he had on because I put my head down  and ran into my bedroom. Had I not overheard my dad and his friends  discussing rumors that Bruce would dress up as a woman years before  (when I was about 11 years old), I never would have believed what I was  seeing. I thought my dad was jealous of my moms new husband, that he  was joking with his friends on the phone, but suddenly I knew it was all  true.​Kardashian then describes how she packed a bag, ran to her car, and called her older sister *Kourtney* crying.  At the time, Kourtney was the only person she told and that for over a  decade, [they] assumed he was a cross-dresser, not transgender.So  I kept the secret and didnt tell anyone other than Kourtney. We did  not tell my mom, either. Im not sure why I didnt tell my mom. I guess I  thought it would break up her marriage, and Kendall and Kylie were so  youngI just felt so bad. I literally tuned it out for over a decade and  never even really thought about it.​Now, the _Keeping Up with the Kardashians_ stars relationship with Jenner is stronger than ever. Kardashian says that she is happy and so proud that the _I Am Cait_ star can share her story. Read the rest of of Kim Kardashians detailed essay here.

 http://www.celebuzz.com/2015-09-16/kim-kardashian-moment-she-found-caitlyn-jenner/?utm_source=sc-tw&utm_medium=ref&utm_campaign=kimkardashian


----------



## DC-Cutie

OK, I do think Caitlyn is receiving preferential treatment with her name change.  

According to TMZ she is 'thisclose' to everything being finalized.  How is it that she is 'thisclose' when the other transgender men and women she spoke with said it can take years for the process to be finalized?  Oh, I know - she has MONEY.

If the report is true, it really is a slap in the face to all those around her that had to fight the fight long and hard, whereas she just breezes on through


----------



## Dallas_Girl

How is it a slap in the face?? Caitlynn is doing all this to make other people jealous. Yes she has money/privilege but that doesn't mean she is free from other struggles transgender individuals face, like acceptance and the inner struggle. 

She hid this for most of her life, that's a whole different set of pains.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Dallas_Girl said:


> How is it a slap in the face?? Caitlynn is doing all this to make other people jealous. Yes she has money/privilege but that doesn't mean she is free from other struggles transgender individuals face, like acceptance and the inner struggle.
> 
> She hid this for most of her life, that's a whole different set of pains.



because she had the rountable discussion about legal name/gender changes and everybody there talked about how hard it was.  So for her to then go and have no issues, is a  slap in the face, IMO


----------



## Dallas_Girl

She just filed the paperwork from what i have read. The courts haven't approved it yet that I know of. So again I don't see how that is a slap in the face.


----------



## DC-Cutie

did you read what I wrote?

I wrote "IF the report is true..." (so you don't have any more concrete/solid information than I do) and ended my last post with "IMO..."

there you go again, trying to regulate.  MY opinion is MINE, yours is yours.  I could have sworn we went through this already... geesh!


----------



## berrydiva

Dallas_Girl said:


> How is it a slap in the face?? Caitlynn is doing all this to make other people jealous. Yes she has money/privilege but that doesn't mean she is free from other struggles transgender individuals face, like acceptance and the inner struggle.
> 
> She hid this for most of her life, that's a whole different set of pains.




It's a slap in the face to others, lacking the same resources, when someone receives preferential treatment due to money or power or celeb status when it comes to things like social/public services and care, no?

If it's true that she's breezing through then it's definitely a slap in the face to others who have been fighting bureaucracy for years to get the same.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

DC-Cutie said:


> did you read what I wrote?
> 
> 
> 
> I wrote "IF the report is true..." (so you don't have any more concrete/solid information than I do) and ended my last post with "IMO..."
> 
> 
> 
> there you go again, trying to regulate.  MY opinion is MINE, yours is yours.  I could have sworn we went through this already... geesh!




Filing paperwork is just that filing. I read what you wrote. Her name is not legally filed yet. Do you know how the court system works? Just because you file, doesn't mean it will be approved. It doesn't mean you are just breezing through the process. It means you are doing what is required.

How the court system works is not an opinion!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> Filing paperwork is just that filing. I read what you wrote. Her name is not legally filed yet. Do you know how the court system works? Just because you file, doesn't mean it will be approved. It doesn't mean you are just breezing through the process. It means you are doing what is required.
> 
> How the court system works is not an opinion!




Things have a way of getting escalated in the court system though.
Money talks.


----------



## berrydiva

Dallas_Girl said:


> Filing paperwork is just that filing. I read what you wrote. Her name is not legally filed yet. Do you know how the court system works? Just because you file, doesn't mean it will be approved. It doesn't mean you are just breezing through the process. It means you are doing what is required.
> 
> How the court system works is not an opinion!




Think DC is commenting on TMZ's commentary that Caitlyn is 'this close' to it being finalized. Suggesting that her name change will be approved shortly and that it has been filed. Given TMZ's history of having inside info, it's not unbelievable that that they're not far from truth. If so, that would've been a quick process. And the justice system can be influenced to move fast with money and power....they can be bought too.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Coach Lover Too said:


> Things have a way of getting escalated in the court system though.
> Money talks.




This is very true. But show me proof that has been done here. There is still procedure and law that has to be followed. 

Everyday people do change their names too, this isn't a new phenomenon.


----------



## DC-Cutie

berrydiva said:


> Think DC is commenting on TMZ's commentary that Caitlyn is 'this close' to it being finalized. Suggesting that her name change will be approved shortly and that it has been filed. Given TMZ's history of having inside info, it's not unbelievable that that they're not far from truth. If so, that would've been a quick process. And the justice system can be influenced to move fast with money and power....they can be bought too.



if I could thank you a thousand times, I would...


----------



## Dallas_Girl

The term "this close" could be 30-60 days or it could be 3 months or 2 days. That term doesn't mean it will be finalized by tomorrow. It may just be it is one of the last steps in her transition.


----------



## berrydiva

Let's act like we have knowledge of how TMZ works and know that if they say use the phrase 'this close' they mean days to a week. They usually wouldn't bother with the story and their credibility....they're known for extremely exclusive scoops. Possible this story is a plant. It's all gossip at the end of the day.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> This is very true. But show me proof that has been done here. There is still procedure and law that has to be followed.
> 
> Everyday people do change their names too, this isn't a new phenomenon.



I guess my question to you could be show me proof it hasn't.
It's not about CJ just changing the name, it's also her changing the sex. I doubt that's an every day occurrence. I know laws have to be followed but I also know it's not what you know, but who.


----------



## ByeKitty

Not sure if this has been posted around here, but I read somewhere that Kim has said that she has known about Bruce's cross dressing and gender issues since she was 11. Although of course PMK could have been in denial, I believe she is full of sh!t when she says she never had a clue and Caitlyn lied to her.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

It's common enough occurrence in California there is a tab for it on their website. 

If there is proof I'm wrong (besides just the filing of paperwork) and the name and gender change was done outside the requirements, please prove me wrong. 

I was simply pointing out that conclusions shouldn't be jumped to just because paperwork was filed.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> Not sure if this has been posted around here, but I read somewhere that Kim has said that she has known about Bruce's cross dressing and gender issues since she was 11. Although of course PMK could have been in denial, I believe she is full of sh!t when she says she never had a clue and Caitlyn lied to her.



Yea, I posted an article of her stating she (Kim) overheard her dad/friends talking about Bruce's cross dressing but she didn't tell her mom because she didn't want to cause them trouble. (not a direct quote but you get the idea.)
I think they're all liars.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> View attachment 3131108
> 
> 
> It's common enough occurrence in California there is a tab for it on their website.
> 
> If there is proof I'm wrong (besides just the filing of paperwork) and the name and gender change was done outside the requirements, please prove me wrong.
> 
> I was simply pointing out that conclusions shouldn't be jumped to just because paperwork was filed.



I still think if an *everyday person* (your words) and CJenner went before the court at the same time, CJ would get preferential treatment. Neither one of us know for certain though do we?
I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Money talks... that's all I'm saying


----------



## berrydiva

Dallas_Girl said:


> I was simply pointing out that conclusions shouldn't be jumped to just because paperwork was filed.




There were no conclusions being jumped to only one person stating, their opinion, that they hope she isn't getting preferential treatment if that story has any validity to it... Lol.


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> Not sure if this has been posted around here, but I read somewhere that Kim has said that she has known about Bruce's cross dressing and gender issues since she was 11. Although of course PMK could have been in denial, I believe she is full of sh!t when she says she never had a clue and Caitlyn lied to her.




Yeh, it was in the Bruce specials.. They ALL basically knew yrs ago he cross dressed.

I think Kris was in denial, hence her shock. She probably didnt think he was serious about it? Seeing as he was married before ...twice... With kids.

But I think she's partially telling the truth. I still think that if I were in her shoes. Whether I knew or not it would still be a rough pill to choke down so I do feel bad for Kris ... I know most don't.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Yeh, it was in the Bruce specials.. They ALL basically knew yrs ago he cross dressed.
> 
> I think Kris was in denial, hence her shock. She probably didnt think he was serious about it? Seeing as he was married before ...twice... With kids.
> 
> But I think she's partially telling the truth. I still think that if I were in her shoes.* Whether I knew or not it would still be a rough pill to choke down so I do feel bad for Kris ... I know most don't.*


I'll admit I've had my moments too.


----------



## berrydiva

tweegy said:


> Yeh, it was in the Bruce specials.. They ALL basically knew yrs ago he cross dressed.
> 
> I think Kris was in denial, hence her shock. She probably didnt think he was serious about it? Seeing as he was married before ...twice... With kids.
> 
> But I think she's partially telling the truth. I still think that if I were in her shoes. Whether I knew or not it would still be a rough pill to choke down so I do feel bad for Kris ... I know most don't.




Wait. In the 20/20 special, he said Kris knew to some degree as he told her before they were married. And to save face, Kris called him a liar basically. Or am I remembering that incorrectly?


----------



## tweegy

berrydiva said:


> Wait. In the 20/20 special, he said Kris knew to some degree as he told her before they were married. And to save face, Kris called him a liar basically. Or am I remembering that incorrectly?




Yup. That's how I recall it.. 

It's basically a 'he said' vs what 'she said' thing.. He's saying she knew, she's saying she didn't know or didn't know all. 

That's what I took from it


----------



## redney

I think she knew. It's probably the only thing in that family's life she didn't try to ca$h in on.


----------



## tweegy

Lol when you see old episodes when you see Bruce it's just crazy..I would have never guessed


----------



## michie

redney said:


> I think she knew. It's probably the only thing in that family's life she didn't try to ca$h in on.



If Rob K. Sr. and his friends were joking about it, I believe she knew.


----------



## mcb100

I would believe that most (again, not saying ALL here, just most), crossdressers could possibly want to be transgender people, so if his family had seen him dressed in women's clothing multiple times before then, then I think that in the back of Kris' mind, she had to kind of have an idea that this was the direction he was leaning towards going....I know it's not easy to believe, especially when one has  lived most of their life as a man, but if he's dressing up in woman's clothing, then that has to hint something to you....(And the only reason why I'm using the pronouns *he/him* here instead of *her/she*, it's so it's easier for you guys to read. I know I've referred to CJ in past posts as she/her, but when we're talking about the past and the future at the same time like before & after transitioning it can get confusing. So I only did that this one post so that everyone can understand what I'm saying.  )


----------



## redney

mcb100 said:


> *I would believe that most (again, not saying ALL here, just most), crossdressers could possibly want to be transgender people*, so if his family had seen him dressed in women's clothing multiple times before then, then I think that in the back of Kris' mind, she had to kind of have an idea that this was the direction he was leaning towards going....I know it's not easy to believe, especially when one has  lived most of their life as a man, but if he's dressing up in woman's clothing, then that has to hint something to you....



This is a very wrong assumption.


----------



## BrandSnob

tweegy said:


> Yup. That's how I recall it..
> 
> It's basically a 'he said' vs what 'she said' thing.. He's saying she knew, she's saying she didn't know or didn't know all.
> 
> That's what I took from it




My understanding is that she knew he sometimes wore women's clothing and I guess thought it was some kind of fetish for him. But she didn't think he was trans or wanted to become a women, especially all these surgeries and everything. As Kim said, it's not fair for Caitlyn to criticize Kris over not wanting to deal with the trans side of stuff because she's not a Lesbian.


----------



## mcb100

^^Right, maybe I shouldn't say the word *most*, you are right, but I do believe that its possible that some crossdressers could want to be transgender. But there are fetishes and things and certain clothing that people just flat out like to wear, for the sake of wearing, so I do take back the word most! ETA, to my previous post!


----------



## berrydiva

tweegy said:


> Yup. That's how I recall it..
> 
> It's basically a 'he said' vs what 'she said' thing.. He's saying she knew, she's saying she didn't know or didn't know all.
> 
> That's what I took from it




Yeah I don't know if I buy her fully. In her desire for fame and money, I can see it outweighing the realities of Bruce's situation.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

BrandSnob said:


> My understanding is that she knew he sometimes wore women's clothing and I guess thought it was some kind of fetish for him. But she didn't think he was trans or wanted to become a women, especially all these surgeries and everything. As Kim said, it's not fair for Caitlyn to criticize Kris over not wanting to deal with the trans side of stuff because she's not a Lesbian.



This was how I understood it too.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

It's total assumption and speculation on my part, but I think Kris knew. I think the tears and "being upset" was playing it up to the cameras. I don't think Kris knows what emotions are, every time she cries on KUWTK it is really fake.


----------



## tweegy

BrandSnob said:


> My understanding is that she knew he sometimes wore women's clothing and I guess thought it was some kind of fetish for him. But she didn't think he was trans or wanted to become a women, especially all these surgeries and everything. As Kim said, it's not fair for Caitlyn to criticize Kris over not wanting to deal with the trans side of stuff because she's not a Lesbian.




Yeh I agree


----------



## Encore Hermes

If Rob Sr. knew, PMK knew and imo A LOT if not all before she married Bruce. 

Being a cheating ho mother of 4 it would be hard to find good prospects imo, she went with what was available and saw $potential with Bruce.  And being married helped him, she was dynamic and jump started his career. 
The divorce was getting ugly and Rob claiming he was unemployed and living with his mother she wasn't going to have it easy as a divorcée.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Wonder how much truth there is to this?? I find it hard to believe that Ellen would be vindictive though.

*'Hypocrite, Narcissist & A Hoax'! Ellen DeGeneres Threatens To Expose Caitlyn JennerFind Out Why They're Deep In War*



Watch your back, Cait! When transgender superstar* Caitlyn Jenner* sat down with proud lesbian powerhouse* Ellen DeGeneres* for her first television interview as a female, it was expected to be a bonding experience. Both women have made difficult life-changing decisions that have garnered plenty of controversy and no doubt heartache.



While the transgender activist, 65, did clarify that "I don't ever want to stand in front of anyone's happiness," her refusal to take a firm stance in favor of marriage equality clearly riled the talk show host, who wed actress* Portia de Rossi* seven years ago.





Ellen, 57, maintained her composure for the remainder of the interview, but on-set insiders say she blew up afterward

 http://starmagazine.com/photos/elle...nner-gay-marriage-episode-fight/photo/211026/​


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Star Magazine though.....??


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Star Magazine though.....??



Yea I know. Even if it were a different publication, I'd still have a hard time believing that about Ellen. I can picture CJ being a diva though.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Coach Lover Too said:


> Yea I know. Even if it were a different publication, I'd still have a hard time believing that about Ellen. I can picture CJ being a diva though.



Oh yeah. Ellen was pretty firm about it on the radio show but I think Star's take on it is......fiction


----------



## Coach Lover Too

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Oh yeah. Ellen was pretty firm about it on the radio show but I think Star's take on it is......fiction



I agree, most definitely a little embellished.


----------



## Sassys

berrydiva said:


> Yeah I don't know if I buy her fully. In her desire for fame and money, I can see it outweighing the realities of Bruce's situation.



She admitted on the E! special she knew he had taken hormones. What woman marries a man who told you while you were dating that he took hormones. Plus she knew he cross dressed. It doesn't take a genius to add the two together. Kris is a liar who can't keep up with her lies. Instead of having a glam squad 24/7 they need to hirer a fact checker (someone to remind them of what lies they told and when).


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Sassys said:


> She admitted on the E! special she knew he had taken hormones. What woman marries a man who told you while you were dating that he took hormones. Plus she knew he cross dressed. It doesn't take a genius to add the two together. Kris is a liar who can't keep up with her lies. Instead of having a glam squad 24/7 they need to hirer a fact checker (someone to remind them of what lies they told and when).



Or they could just read tPF. We keep a tight check on them...lol


----------



## Sassys

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Or they could just read tPF. We keep a tight check on them...lol



Lol. So true. Yet NO ONE in the media ever calls them out on the lies. They can find 15yr old footage of the family, but they can't say when they interview them; "uh, in 2008 you said this but yet now you say this.

One of my biggest pet peeves is people who lie about stupid things and I can bust you in my sleep.


----------



## DC-Cutie

the reason why people never bust them on their lies, is because all of the people they sit and do interviews with I'm sure have been prepped beforehand with 'off limit' questions or subjects.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> If Rob Sr. knew, PMK knew and imo A LOT if not all before she married Bruce.



_We_ knew years ago and that's because the Ks talked and it got out. But also, Cait used to confide in people.

Who was the guy (married to an actress) who said he knew Cait wanted to transition and wanted to be called Nicky (I think, it was Nicky) but he never said anything, because his wife told him in private.

Linda knew, she said he wanted to be "Heather."  The first wife knew. So many people knowing, this stuff eventually gets out. It was an open secret.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Kris always knew.  When your man says early in the marriage 'i'm taking hormones...' it's not because he has a headache!  She's upset now, because it's all come to light!


----------



## Jikena

I remember the episode where you see Kris crying like "I didn't knoow" and Caitlyn was emotionless like "cut the b*ll****"


----------



## queen

DC-Cutie said:


> Kris always knew.  When your man says early in the marriage 'i'm taking hormones...' it's not because he has a headache!  She's upset now, because it's all come to light!


Are you sure of this?  I only ask as my recollection was that BJ said he had been living single and isolated and taking hormones and decided it was not for him and stopped.  I thought he told KJ he had taken them in the past but did not think he was taking them during their marriage.  I would not think one would take the hormones when conceiving children.  I would fear harm to the fetus.  I only know what I heard on tv and have read here so not saying you are incorrect but asking for clarification.


----------



## Sassys

queen said:


> Are you sure of this?  I only ask as my recollection was that BJ said he had been living single and isolated and taking hormones and decided it was not for him and stopped.  I thought he told KJ he had taken them in the past but did not think he was taking them during their marriage.  I would not think one would take the hormones when conceiving children.  I would fear harm to the fetus.  I only know what I heard on tv and have read here so not saying you are incorrect but asking for clarification.


 
Yes he admitted to her, he took them in the past. IMO, that makes no difference. Clearly your man had feelings of becoming a woman and took hormones + he crossed dressed. The seed has been planted, so Kris new, he wanted to at one point become a woman.

Rob Sr. knew and his wife knew and spilled the beans in 2007 to the media. I always knew the wife was telling the truth (has no reason to lie) and is also telling the truth about Khloe's paternity.


----------



## queen

Sassys said:


> Yes he admitted to her, he took them in the past. IMO, that makes no difference. Clearly your man had feelings of becoming a woman and took hormones + he crossed dressed. The seed has been planted, so Kris new, he wanted to at one point become a woman.
> 
> Rob Sr. knew and his wife knew and spilled the beans in 2007 to the media. I always knew the wife was telling the truth (has no reason to lie) and is also telling the truth about Khloe's paternity.


I don't disagree that it is something that would put most women off, including myself.  I was responding to the statement that early in the marriage he was taking hormones, as I did not think he was at that time.


----------



## DC-Cutie

queen said:


> Are you sure of this?  I only ask as my recollection was that BJ said he had been living single and isolated and taking hormones and decided it was not for him and stopped.  I thought he told KJ he had taken them in the past but did not think he was taking them during their marriage.  I would not think one would take the hormones when conceiving children.  I would fear harm to the fetus.  I only know what I heard on tv and have read here so not saying you are incorrect but asking for clarification.



Yes, I'm sure


----------



## GoGlam

queen said:


> Are you sure of this?  I only ask as my recollection was that BJ said he had been living single and isolated and taking hormones and decided it was not for him and stopped.  I thought he told KJ he had taken them in the past but did not think he was taking them during their marriage.  I would not think one would take the hormones when conceiving children.  I would fear harm to the fetus.  I only know what I heard on tv and have read here so not saying you are incorrect but asking for clarification.




I think I remember something like this


----------



## Coach Lover Too

If she'll (Kris) lie about one thing (not knowing about hormones/etc) she'll lie about another (Khloe paternity.)<<<That one has obvious written ALL over it!


----------



## Florasun

...because it sounds just like this thread.
http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s19e01-stunning-and-brave

Link to south park episode skewering political correctness, Caitlin Jenner and Tom Brady. Be warned some may find the content offensive.


----------



## tweegy

Florasun said:


> ...because it sounds just like this thread.
> http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s19e01-stunning-and-brave
> 
> Link to south park episode skewering political correctness, Caitlin Jenner and Tom Brady. Be warned some may find the content offensive.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] 

That's two days for you florasun! I'll see you in four!


----------



## veyda

Florasun said:


> ...because it sounds just like this thread.
> http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s19e01-stunning-and-brave
> 
> Link to south park episode skewering political correctness, Caitlin Jenner and Tom Brady. Be warned some may find the content offensive.



LOL I watched that a few nights ago. The Tom Brady stuff was pretty funny too.


----------



## uhpharm01

DC-Cutie said:


> Kris always knew.  When your man says early in the marriage 'i'm taking hormones...' it's not because he has a headache!  She's upset now, because it's all come to light!



Yep


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> If she'll (Kris) lie about one thing (not knowing about hormones/etc) she'll lie about another (Khloe paternity.)<<<That one has obvious written ALL over it!



Who is khloe's dad?!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

uhpharm01 said:


> Who is khloe's dad?!



Rumor has it (forever) that it's really someone, Alex Roldan, that was Kris Jenner's hairdresser. The similarities are amazing. 









http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...s-photo-sister-Khloe-Kardashian-real-dad.html


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> Rumor has it (forever) that it's really someone, Alex Roldan, that was Kris Jenner's hairdresser. The similarities are amazing.
> 
> http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o795/baglady1956/article-0-11A4A237000005DC-897_468x487_zpseuwz5vqe.jpg[/IMG
> 
> 
> 
> [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2098451/Kylie-Jenner-tweets-photo-sister-Khloe-Kardashian-real-dad.html[/url][/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Oh wow thanks


----------



## Coach Lover Too

uhpharm01 said:


> Oh wow thanks


You're welcome.


----------



## horse17

Coach Lover Too said:


> Rumor has it (forever) that it's really someone, Alex Roldan, that was Kris Jenner's hairdresser. The similarities are amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...s-photo-sister-Khloe-Kardashian-real-dad.html


wow!...the similarity of the eyes...


----------



## tweegy

Just saw the part with Kris. Sorry but I think she's right.... Whenever she was allowed to say something..


----------



## Coach Lover Too

horse17 said:


> wow!...the similarity of the eyes...


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Coach Lover Too said:


>




Wow they look so much alike!!

I don't know why Khloe denies it, she looks significantly different from Kim and kourtney. It's not just the height difference.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Dallas_Girl said:


> Wow they look so much alike!!
> 
> I don't know why Khloe denies it, she looks significantly different from Kim and kourtney. It's not just the height difference.



I agree. Spittin' image!


----------



## Encore Hermes

And his name is Alex and her middle name is Alexandra


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> And his name is Alex and her middle name is Alexandra


----------



## Encore Hermes

Coach Lover Too said:


>


You didn't know that doll? 
And she has her daddy's legs




Kris Kardashian and Alex Roldan
Daily entertainment credit


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> You didn't know that doll?
> And she has her daddy's legs
> dailyentertainmentnews.com/wpgo/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Alex-Roldan-khloe-kardashian-real-father-pic1.jpg
> Kris Kardashian and Alex Roldan
> Daily entertainment credit



Nope, I can't say that I did! I remember that pic though!~ No DNA test needed in this situation!


----------



## sdkitty

Dallas_Girl said:


> Wow they look so much alike!!
> 
> I don't know why Khloe denies it, she looks significantly different from Kim and kourtney. It's not just the height difference.


yes, she does look like him
but I can see why she'd deny it.  She grew up believing that Kardashian was her dad and her sisters were her full sisters.  Finding out this wasn't true would be a big blow.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Forgot most important part

Same butt


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> Forgot most important part
> 
> Same butt
> dailyentertainmentnews.com/wpgo/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Alex-Roldan-khloe-kardashian-real-father-pic1.jpg



 I noticed that too! Had to look twice!


----------



## Dallas_Girl

sdkitty said:


> yes, she does look like him
> but I can see why she'd deny it.  She grew up believing that Kardashian was her dad and her sisters were her full sisters.  Finding out this wasn't true would be a big blow.




It would be a shock. But I wonder if she knew much easier, say like when they were teenagers. The fact she is so much taller, and her complexion is different, that something wasn't known then. 

I think the Kardashians tend to deny things that are true. IMO it's silly because it's kinda obvious. Well that's my thoughts anyways.


----------



## sdkitty

Dallas_Girl said:


> It would be a shock. But I wonder if she knew much easier, say like when they were teenagers. The fact she is so much taller, and her complexion is different, that something wasn't known then.
> 
> I think the Kardashians tend to deny things that are true. IMO it's silly because it's kinda obvious. Well that's my thoughts anyways.


I think Chris would deny it to everyone including her daughter for obvious reasons


----------



## Jayne1

sdkitty said:


> She grew up believing that Kardashian was her dad and her sisters were her full sisters.  Finding out this wasn't true would be a big blow.



No, she always knew.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

sdkitty said:


> I think Chris would deny it to everyone including her daughter for obvious reasons




There is only so long Kris can deny it. 

Sometimes it's just better to come out with the truth then to keep denying something like this. I think it makes her look silly.


----------



## sdkitty

Dallas_Girl said:


> There is only so long Kris can deny it.
> 
> Sometimes it's just better to come out with the truth then to keep denying something like this. I think it makes her look silly.


looking silly would be better than looking evil and greedy as she usually does


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn Jenner In Complete Agony After Major Surgery Disaster

RadarOnline.com can exclusively reveal that Caitlyn Jenner is in complete agony due to the extensive list of surgeries shes undergone in the past year to transform from male to female.

Caitlyns in constant pain since she had all those operations, an insider tells Radar. Shes happy with how her transformations going, but shes finding the surgery hell on her body.

Jenner is often complaining of pain around her face and ears from the facelift, but her doctors say she has to be patient as it takes a while to recover from such major procedures, notes the insider.

And while the 65-year-old reality star insists to those close to her that she has no regrets, Shes currently taking painkillers until the work on her face and body settles in, reveals the insider.

As Radar reported, Jenner spent millions to transform into a woman. Her surgeries included everything from a facelift and neck sculpting to a brow lift and shaving.

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne..._campaign=caitlynjennerplasticsurgeryproblems


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Tangential question: does the hormone therapy make most people sick at first? I can't imagine a biologically male body takes well to an influx of estrogen. Some women can't even take oral contraceptives because the hormones makes them too sick.


----------



## Jayne1

Dallas_Girl said:


> There is only so long Kris can deny it.
> 
> Sometimes it's just better to come out with the truth then to keep denying something like this. I think it makes her look silly.



Kris doesn't care.


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Caitlyn Jenner In Complete Agony After Major Surgery Disaster
> 
> RadarOnline.com can exclusively reveal that Caitlyn Jenner is in complete agony due to the extensive list of surgeries shes undergone in the past year to transform from male to female.
> 
> Caitlyns in constant pain since she had all those operations, an insider tells Radar. Shes happy with how her transformations going, but shes finding the surgery hell on her body.
> 
> Jenner is often complaining of pain around her face and ears from the facelift, but her doctors say she has to be patient as it takes a while to recover from such major procedures, notes the insider.
> 
> And while the 65-year-old reality star insists to those close to her that she has no regrets, Shes currently taking painkillers until the work on her face and body settles in, reveals the insider.
> 
> As Radar reported, Jenner spent millions to transform into a woman. Her surgeries included everything from a facelift and neck sculpting to a brow lift and shaving.
> 
> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne..._campaign=caitlynjennerplasticsurgeryproblems



She really did a lot of work, in a short amount of time.  The old nose jobs weren't good enough, the mouth had to be not just fuller, but what looks almost wider, the jaw had to be changed on and on.

I find the GFs-for-hire (not Candis, who also has very obvious feminine surgery) but the two Jens and the pretty one who still kept her male voice, to be far more feminine looking that Cait and even Candis.

Also, Cait's face is jarring to my eyes, I can't imagine what the Queen of Plastic Surgery, Kris Jenner must think, just looking at Cait.

Jennifer Finney Boylan and Jen Richards look so much more natural and easy on the eyes.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I agree with you. They do look completely natural. If I didn't know, I wouldn't have a clue they were trans.
Reading the things CJ has had done makes me cringe just thinking about the pain and I'm a pretty tough ole broad! lol


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Encore Hermes said:


> Forgot most important part
> 
> Same butt
> dailyentertainmentnews.com/wpgo/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Alex-Roldan-khloe-kardashian-real-father-pic1.jpg



Idk why tabloids even tried to say OJ was her dad. This guy actually resembles her way too much


----------



## Sasha2012

It appeared to be just a coffee run - but that didn't stop Caitlyn Jenner showing off another cute outfit on Monday.

The 65-year-old reality star flaunted her figure in a blue summer dress with plunging neckline for the casual outing.

Caitlyn was seen towering over a male companion in her gold wedge heels as the duo left a Starbucks in Malibu.  

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...rabs-coffee-male-companion.html#ixzz3mRIgy9Si


----------



## Luvbolide

Is it me or is her face looking oddly lumpy these days?  I don't know if it just a good days/bad days thing, but I feel like she is looking increasingly haggard.  And I can't help but wish that she would try a bit more age-appropriate clothing - cover those knees, less plunge in the neckline and get rid of half of that hair.  Maybe not - I have never paid attention to the Ks, but on reflection, Caitlyn has probably never known an elegant woman...


----------



## cristincline

Anyone else see this? Thought the wording she chose was strange.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Straight from the salon. Or glam squad.


----------



## berrydiva

cristincline said:


> Anyone else see this? Thought the wording she chose was strange.
> 
> View attachment 3135645



What's strange?


----------



## dangerouscurves

berrydiva said:


> What's strange?



Maybe that she uses the words dad and him.


----------



## gail13

At first it's all fun and games to dress pretty every day.  I wonder when we are going to see Cait in sweats and a t, her hair up in a banana clip like the rest of us women?   

I'm sure any embarrassment the family is enduring is tempered by the money they make on the I Am Cait series.


----------



## Dallas_Girl

Didn't Caitlynn say on the show she will always be their dad. So that wording doesn't seem strange to me.


----------



## gilbertte112

horrible horrible legs


----------



## bag-mania

cristincline said:


> Anyone else see this? Thought the wording she chose was strange.
> 
> View attachment 3135645



Not strange. I'm inclined to cut her some slack and not expect her to conform and be all PC. She has known Caitlyn as being dad a lot longer than as Caitlyn.


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> Maybe that she uses the words dad and him.



Dad and 'her' would be strange 

At the end of the day Bruce, now Caitlyn, is the father of his children. Gender reassignment doesn't change that fact.


----------



## tweegy

Its a good thing she didn't post that in this thread...That's all I'll say..


cristincline said:


> Anyone else see this? Thought the wording she chose was strange.
> 
> View attachment 3135645


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> Its a good thing she didn't post that in this thread...That's all I'll say..



Why?  Kylie has said from the beginning that this transition is troublesome for her... Kendall also calls her "dad" and "him".


----------



## blackkitty4378

The only people I remember getting harped on were those who were like "No I'm still calling him Bruce just because I want to be defiant" but I could be remembering wrong though.


----------



## tweegy

ByeKitty said:


> Why?  Kylie has said from the beginning that this transition is troublesome for her... Kendall also calls her "dad" and "him".



Guuurl, I've seen folks massacred in here for less lol

But Kylie said it...so it's ok I guess


----------



## Encore Hermes

tweegy said:


> Its a good thing she didn't post that in this thread...That's all I'll say..




Big  

I think it is strange that she doesn't see her dad at another time, it isn't like they are 9-5 M-F types. 
 Unless they are filming this weekend for the K show and cait decided to continue on that reality series.


----------



## queen

tweegy said:


> Guuurl, I've seen folks massacred in here for less lol
> 
> But Kylie said it...so it's ok I guess


It is my opinion that it would be cruel to expect your child, mother or ex wife to have to refer to you as Caitlyn or she.  Really to expect anyone to do so is a lot to expect as old habits die hard.  I do believe Jenner said on tv that she was not picky about pronouns and I give her kudos for that.  I have been knowing of Jenner since the Olympics and it is only here I feel compelled to use CJ and she.  I personally do not begrudge Jenner living how she wishes but for her to expect me to do whatever she pleases is kind of selfish.  If I were to personally address her I would try to honor her wishes but otherwise i don't feel compelled to be all pc.  That won't be popular here but truth is it is not all about her.  I have not thought of Jenner for years but I will always find the Olympic Gold winner Bruce far more impressive than Caitlyn.  That is just my opinion and I understand this is a sensitive issue for many and I mean no disrespect just being real.  Some things in life just are and she was Bruce for 65 years and although you can change how you live and what you are called if you are being real you can not change the past and I do not believe she wants to be forgotten when she was Bruce.


----------



## ByeKitty

tweegy said:


> Guuurl, I've seen folks massacred in here for less lol
> 
> But Kylie said it...so it's ok I guess



It's interesting how different people read this thread differently... I haven't seen anyone being massacred in here, though I (and some others) in here have been called out on giving Bruce/Caitlyn the benefit of the doubt...


----------



## addisonshopper

I just can't with Bruce Jenner walking around in Gold wedges feathered hair painted nails AnD A purse.  I keep seeing the Wheaties box with him and his medals.  This totally messes up my mind.


----------



## mistikat

I don't mind any of the above. I do wish someone would really up her accessory game. Those huge luggage like bags just all look wrong with what she wears. Girl needs to sign up on PF - we would steer her right!


----------



## ChanelMommy

Dallas_Girl said:


> Didn't Caitlynn say on the show she will always be their dad. So that wording doesn't seem strange to me.



pretty sure you are right..he will always be there *dad*


----------



## Encore Hermes

Bra tips from Kim ?





X17


----------



## uhpharm01

Encore Hermes said:


> Bra tips from Kim ?
> x17online.com/media/images/2015/09/caitlyn-jenner-movies-see-through-bra-boobs-092215.jpg
> X17



Okay


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Did Caitlyn have breast implant surgery?I think I can see a definite line of an implant. Anyone?


----------



## Jikena

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Did Caitlyn have breast implant surgery?I think I can see a definite line of an implant. Anyone?



Lol yes she's had.


----------



## Docjeun

Sasha2012 said:


> It appeared to be just a coffee run - but that didn't stop Caitlyn Jenner showing off another cute outfit on Monday.
> 
> The 65-year-old reality star flaunted her figure in a blue summer dress with plunging neckline for the casual outing.
> 
> Caitlyn was seen towering over a male companion in her gold wedge heels as the duo left a Starbucks in Malibu.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...rabs-coffee-male-companion.html#ixzz3mRIgy9Si



OMG!!


----------



## Swanky

*Caitlyn Jenner  D.A. Will NOT Prosecute in Fatal Car Crash ... UNLESS*

 *        9/23/2015 1:00 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF     *

EXCLUSIVE





*Caitlyn Jenner* will not be prosecuted for vehicular manslaughter in February's fatal PCH car crash, but there's one string attached, TMZ has learned.
Well-placed sources connected with the L.A. County D.A.'s Office tell us, the people assigned to review the case have determined Jenner's conduct was negligent, but not criminal. We're told the people making the decision are also relying on the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept., which investigated and came up with *the same conclusion*.
Here's the string that's attached. The D.A. herself, *Jackie Lacey*, can ignore the conclusions and go forward by filing criminal charges, but our sources say that's highly unlikely.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3mZLDWDT3


----------



## Jayne1

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Did Caitlyn have breast implant surgery?I think I can see a definite line of an implant. Anyone?



Yes, she talked about them.  There was even a scene where she flashed her son, she was so happy and proud of them, and he said he'd rather not see.


----------



## dangerouscurves

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Did Caitlyn have breast implant surgery?I think I can see a definite line of an implant. Anyone?




Girl! One can't grow boobs that big only with hormones treatment.


----------



## VickyB

tweegy said:


> Its a good thing she didn't post that in this thread...That's all I'll say..



True that!!!!


----------



## VickyB

byekitty said:


> it's interesting how different people read this thread differently... I haven't seen anyone being massacred in here, though i (and some others) in here have been called out on giving bruce/caitlyn the benefit of the doubt...



wow


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jenner gets stopped by sheriff in agoura hills, Rhonda intervenes. 
















Daily mail
In link Cait races car on racetrack scaring Kylie.  I think they have 3 cameras on the front windshield imo poor taste after the accident and death. 



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Jenner-s-ex-assistant-BFF-Ronda-Kamihira.html


----------



## mcb100

I know, right? You'd think that CJ would not be racing cars at full speed after everything that just happened.


----------



## chowlover2

None of those pics are flattering to Rhonda or CJ. 

CJ is the same self entitled individual Bruce was.


----------



## queen

Encore Hermes said:


> Jenner gets stopped by sheriff in agoura hills, Rhonda intervenes.
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/24/10/2CB3CC7700000578-3247167-image-a-74_1443085771747.jpg
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/24/10/2CB3CB0900000578-3247167-image-a-67_1443085508417.jpg
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/24/10/2CB41B7F00000578-3247167-image-a-72_1443085757184.jpg
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/24/10/2CB4E3FA00000578-3247167-image-a-70_1443085725080.jpg
> Daily mail
> In link Cait races car on racetrack scaring Kylie.  I think they have 3 cameras on the front windshield imo poor taste after the accident and death.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Jenner-s-ex-assistant-BFF-Ronda-Kamihira.html


Wow, this would never fly where I live.  The driver answers up for their own actions and if the passenger got out of the car it would not be good for anyone.  With recent violence to cops I would think she would be told to remain in the car unless they wanted to frisk her.  Why does Rhonda need to intervene?  I hope they don't think they deserve "special" treatment.


----------



## AEGIS

sh*t is still trippy lol


----------



## blackkitty4378

The new South Park that mocks Caitlyn is terrible. 

Warning: May be difficult to watch/offensive.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Rhonda looks wasted there (and CJ looks surprised, as always), and I can guarantee if she were to get out of the car like that here while seemingly trying to interfere, she'd be carted off to jail in handcuffs.

I have no words for the high speed racing with Kylie. 
Well, I do but I digress.


----------



## tweegy

blackkitty4378 said:


> The new South Park that mocks Caitlyn is terrible.
> 
> Warning: May be difficult to watch/offensive.




lol! I saw the entire episode..#mess


----------



## Encore Hermes

Omg.......the eye..........
http://assets-s3.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/articles/92412-caitlyn-jenner-donald-*****-receive-south-park-treatment/1443095230_cait-article.jpg
U.S. Magazine

Is it a two part episode?


----------



## tweegy

Encore Hermes said:


> Omg.......the eye..........
> assets-s3.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/articles/92412-caitlyn-jenner-donald-*****-receive-south-park-treatment/1443095230_cait-article.jpg
> U.S. Magazine
> 
> Is it a two part episode?



Sort of, the story continued from the last one.


----------



## kemilia

I loved the eye detail.  

In the beginning of the Caitlyn transition, I thought that maybe the "eye" was a result of Botox or some other procedure and would go away but I don't know if it has. I never watched the Kardashians so I don't know if Bruce had this wonky eye back then.


----------



## DC-Cutie

As I suspected a while back in this thread, you can't tell me money didn't play a factor

Caitlyn Marie Jenner's name AND gender change was approved by a judge in L.A. Superior Court on Friday.
http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3mm1HUxzQ

Caitlyn was not present, but her attorneys were there for the very brief hearing. The judge quickly gave his stamp of approval for the name change after asking if there were any objections. There were none. 


The judge didn't say it in court, but Caitlyn's request to legally change her gender was also approved. We're told judges typically do NOT mention gender changes on the record out of respect for the applicant.


----------



## berrydiva

^That's sad as so many wait so long for the same treatment but money and power talks. TMZ always has the scoop.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Omg.......the eye..........
> http://assets-s3.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/articles/92412-caitlyn-jenner-donald-*****-receive-south-park-treatment/1443095230_cait-article.jpg
> U.S. Magazine



I like that they notice these things.  lol


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner marked her landmark name and gender change over a refreshing Jamba Juice on Friday. 

The outing comes the same day that a judge put his stamp of approval on her request to go from William Bruce Jenner to Caitlyn Marie Jenner.

Caitlyn kept cool in a baby pink top and a sporty white skirt as she stepped out into a parking lot with a beige leather purse slung over her shoulder in Westlake Village following a visit to Jamba Juice.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...un-legally-changing-gender.html#ixzz3mohx1CZh


----------



## Encore Hermes

Photoshop can be  amazing









Celebuzz


----------



## Jikena

Encore Hermes said:


> Photoshop can be  amazing
> static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-leopard-print-dress-063015.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebuzz



Wow...


----------



## ByeKitty

Photoshop, and softer lighting too!! She looks ridiculous in that "tennis outfit". I think the wonky eye is the result of a Botox problem... I have read that unfortunate placing of the needle can lead to nerve damage...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

First time hubby saw CJ he thought the wonky eye was from a stroke. 
Now I can't stop looking at that wonky knee. omg


----------



## uhpharm01

Encore Hermes said:


> Photoshop can be  amazing
> static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-leopard-print-dress-063015.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebuzz



Yep


----------



## sdkitty

she's almost becoming as annoying as the Kardashians


----------



## VickyB

Encore Hermes said:


> Photoshop can be  amazing
> static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-leopard-print-dress-063015.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Celebuzz



Ha! She and Kris have similar leg issues!


----------



## ByeKitty

Coach Lover Too said:


> First time hubby saw CJ he thought the wonky eye was from a stroke.
> Now I can't stop looking at that wonky knee. omg



In my experience most stroke victims show in the bottom half of the face, not really the eyelid... Just looks like an unintended botox effect to me.


----------



## Jayne1

ByeKitty said:


> In my experience most stroke victims show in the bottom half of the face, not really the eyelid... Just looks like an unintended botox effect to me.



I thought it might be from the forehead feminizing surgery that's a big surgery and maybe it was temporary numbness, or damage, from that.


----------



## uhpharm01

DC-Cutie said:


> As I suspected a while back in this thread, you can't tell me money didn't play a factor
> 
> Caitlyn Marie Jenner's name AND gender change was approved by a judge in L.A. Superior Court on Friday.
> http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz3mm1HUxzQ
> 
> Caitlyn was not present, but her attorneys were there for the very brief hearing. The judge quickly gave his stamp of approval for the name change after asking if there were any objections. There were none.
> 
> 
> The judge didn't say it in court, but Caitlyn's request to legally change her gender was also approved. We're told judges typically do NOT mention gender changes on the record out of respect for the applicant.



So did she have the sex change operation?


----------



## krissa

uhpharm01 said:


> So did she have the sex change operation?



I don't think so. I don't think it's required in order to change gender.


----------



## uhpharm01

krissa said:


> I don't think so. I don't think it's required in order to change gender.



Okay


----------



## Jikena

Just saw Caitlyn on I am Cait and the skin on her jawbone (chin to ear) looks SO tight. Can clearly see she had surgery to remove skin (a facelift ? I don't remember what it's called). No surprise she's in pain (-> said in an article that I read here).


----------



## ChanelMommy

sdkitty said:


> she's almost becoming as annoying as the Kardashians



Yep. Agree.


----------



## Docjeun

Could it be that someone photo shopped her to look so bad?
My grand father who is 96 doesn't even look that bad and he's extremely thin.


----------



## Docjeun

I just realized I wrote "her", because to me he's still a "he".


----------



## DC-Cutie

Trulyadiva said:


> Could it be that someone photo shopped her to look so bad?
> My grand father who is 96 doesn't even look that bad and he's extremely thin.



I don't think so.  If you see the show there are some scenes where her skin is like baby smooth - thanks to lighting, filtering and film magic.  Then there are other scenes, where it's just raw footage and she is rough looking.


----------



## sdkitty

DC-Cutie said:


> I don't think so.  If you see the show there are some scenes where her skin is like baby smooth - thanks to lighting, filtering and film magic.  Then there are other scenes, where it's just raw footage and she is rough looking.


so how much is she really helping other transgender people if she is not only privileged to have so much money to make things happen for herself but is also portraying a false image on TV?


----------



## Jayne1

Jikena said:


> Just saw Caitlyn on I am Cait and the skin on her jawbone (chin to ear) looks SO tight. Can clearly see she had surgery to remove skin (a facelift ? I don't remember what it's called). No surprise she's in pain (-> said in an article that I read here).



Lots of work done.


----------



## tweegy

[emoji50]


----------



## labelwhore04

Ew. Her whole face honestly looks painful. I think she has some sort of plastic surgery addiction. None of her transgender friends look like that. She's been messing with her face and getting botched surgery for years and it clearly hasn't helped her in any way.


----------



## AEGIS

I think Bruce wants to look as feminine as possible and has tried his best to do that which means a lot of work.  As a man he probably didn't pay much attention bc he didn't have to.  A woman has that burden


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*ouch*


----------



## queen

I truly do not understand the mental and physical pain people will put themselves thru.  I speak not only of Jenner's change, but others who can not learn to live with their looks (which are usually fine to start with) and go to extreme measures that usually look false anyway.  If one lives long enough they will face many things that don't please them but they can not change.


----------



## sdkitty

queen said:


> I truly do not understand the mental and physical pain people will put themselves thru.  I speak not only of Jenner's change, but others who can not learn to live with their looks (which are usually fine to start with) and go to extreme measures that usually look false anyway.  If one lives long enough they will face many things that don't please them but they can not change.


it's hard enough for a woman at that age to look beautiful but here we have a man trying to do it via surgery and every other means money can buy
just goes to show there are things money can't buy


----------



## ByeKitty

AEGIS said:


> I think Bruce wants to look as feminine as possible and has tried his best to do that which means a lot of work.  As a man he probably didn't pay much attention bc he didn't have to.  A woman has that burden



Well to be fair, as Bruce he already had quite a lot of work done... But being a woman gives her the opportunity to go all out without people saying "OMG DUDE LOOKS LIKE A LADY". I personally think she looks like a burn victim.


----------



## Docjeun

queen said:


> I truly do not understand the mental and physical pain people will put themselves thru.  I speak not only of Jenner's change, but others who can not learn to live with their looks (which are usually fine to start with) and go to extreme measures that usually look false anyway.  If one lives long enough they will face many things that don't please them but they can not change.



I can't understand it either, a little here and there is fine but this is just crazy, how can they take all that pain is beyond me, just the thought of going under the knife if I don't have too makes me cringe.  I guess the pressures of Hollywood make people do crazy things.  What amazes me is that they start soooo young!!  It's really scary, I feel sorry for them in a way.


----------



## Docjeun

ByeKitty said:


> Well to be fair, as Bruce he already had quite a lot of work done... But being a woman gives her the opportunity to go all out without people saying "OMG DUDE LOOKS LIKE A LADY". I personally think she looks like a burn victim.



That's exactly what I was thinking, burn victim.


----------



## AEGIS

ByeKitty said:


> Well to be fair, as Bruce he already had quite a lot of work done... But being a woman gives her the opportunity to go all out without people saying "OMG DUDE LOOKS LIKE A LADY". I personally think she looks like a burn victim.



I was missing a word in my post...i dont think he took care of his SKIN as a man, the way a woman might.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Her skin is the problem IMO. Smoking, too much sun etc take their toll. And because her skin is in bad shape PLUS the surgeries PLUS her age - its just not going to be as resilient or bounce back very well.

Caitlyn would have been better off having some skin treatments first rather than surgery and injectables if you ask me.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I don't think Caitlyn has ever worn sunscreen a day in her life.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

A few months ago she was allegedly baddest ***** on the block. What happened? lol.

I was listening to Baba Booey on Artie Lange yesterday and he said Bruce was a died in the wool right wing conservative and that they use to get in heated discussions since Baba was a liberal and believed in same sex marriage, etc. 

I really don't understand Caitlyn Jenner.

Eta: It wasn't Baba it was Stuttering John. He moved to California years ago and became friends with the family. He said They had a stripper pole in their bedroom and would have burlesque parties around the younger daughters. He also claims it was his ex- wife that gave Kris the idea to do a reality show.


----------



## bag-mania

BagOuttaHell said:


> I really don't understand Caitlyn Jenner.



Don't feel bad. Caitlyn doesn't understand Caitlyn. How could we?


----------



## bisousx

queen said:


> I truly do not understand the mental and physical pain people will put themselves thru.  I speak not only of Jenner's change, but others who can not learn to live with their looks (which are usually fine to start with) and go to extreme measures that usually look false anyway.  If one lives long enough they will face many things that don't please them but they can not change.



Some things we don't need to understand. 

The only thing that matters is that the person who is getting the surgeries enjoys what they see in the mirror.


----------



## dangerouscurves

bisousx said:


> Some things we don't need to understand.
> 
> The only thing that matters is that the person who is getting the surgeries enjoys what they see in the mirror.




I genuinely hope he/she does.


----------



## Encore Hermes

She could also be addicted to surgery which has nothing to do with being trans,  or feminization surgery.


----------



## Jayne1

bisousx said:


> The only thing that matters is that the person who is getting the surgeries enjoys what they see in the mirror.



She does like what she sees in the mirror, she said so when she made her bathing suit debut on her TV show.  So, good for her. We should all be so satisfied.


----------



## blackkitty4378

I couldn't care less what Caitlyn thinks about gay marriage but with the way she is along with her past, she needs to never call herself a traditionalist. Unless she's being sarcastic.


----------



## bisousx

Jayne1 said:


> She does like what she sees in the mirror, she said so when she made her bathing suit debut on her TV show.  So, good for her. We should all be so satisfied.



I can't tell if you are being sarcastic 

But yeah, when people lament how they don't understand plastic surgery... how you feel about yourself is a personal thing. My life completely changed for the better after I got a few things done. Confidence, better treatment from other people, I just became a happier person in general.


----------



## L etoile

After watching the show, I have figured that CJ is kind of a b!tch to people around her.


----------



## labelwhore04

Encore Hermes said:


> She could also be addicted to surgery which has nothing to do with being trans,  or feminization surgery.



That's what i was thinking.


----------



## queen

bisousx said:


> Some things we don't need to understand.
> 
> The only thing that matters is that the person who is getting the surgeries enjoys what they see in the mirror.


You are right I don't need to understand anything about Jenner.  But your philosophy goes against everything i find reasonable.  65 trying to look like 25,  being sexually male and the father of several children and trying to look Hollywood starlet glamorous.  Glad she thinks she looks good and is happy but I think it is delusional. JMHO.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> You are right I don't need to understand anything about Jenner.  But your philosophy goes against everything i find reasonable.  65 trying to look like 25,  being sexually male and the father of several children and trying to look Hollywood starlet glamorous.  Glad she thinks she looks good and is happy but I think it is delusional. JMHO.



Ditto.


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> You are right I don't need to understand anything about Jenner.  But your philosophy goes against everything i find reasonable.  65 trying to look like 25,  being sexually male and the father of several children and trying to look Hollywood starlet glamorous.  Glad she thinks she looks good and is happy but I think it is delusional. JMHO.



If she's happy with the way she looks, it doesn't matter if we think she looks ridiculous - what's beyond reasonable about that?


----------



## queen

ByeKitty said:


> If she's happy with the way she looks, it doesn't matter if we think she looks ridiculous - what's beyond reasonable about that?


Read the third sentence.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner's personal sense of style following her gender transition has most certainly been influenced by her famous stepdaughters the Kardashians. 

And on Monday the 65-year-old appeared to be taking a page out of Khloe Kardashian's style book while shopping for groceries in Malibu, California. 

The former Olympian showcased her slim legs in a pair of white denim skinny trousers, one's popularized by her famous reality star stepdaughter.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...skinny-jeans-grocery-store.html#ixzz3n5EW7kxC


----------



## FreeSpirit71

^Now THAT is a good look for her. Age appropriate (I know in this day and age *anyone* can wear _anything_, but you know, wear it _well_)


----------



## veyda

She does look nice there.


----------



## queen

veyda said:


> She does look nice there.


Do you think this is being photographed or filmed for PR?  I ask as I know no women over six foot and 65 years old who would wear heels grocery shopping.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

queen said:


> Do you think this is being photographed or filmed for PR?  I ask as I know no women over six foot and 65 years old who would wear heels grocery shopping.



LOL.  My Grandmother wore 1940's makeup, hair, mid-length dress or pant suit and heels almost to the day she died - yes, even shopping. Blue rinse hair and a 1940's short pin curl do. Gran was 6"1


----------



## queen

FreeSpirit71 said:


> LOL.  My Grandmother wore 1940's makeup, hair, mid-length dress or pant suit and heels almost to the day she died - yes, even shopping. Blue rinse hair and a 1940's short pin curl do. Gran was 6"1


What time period are you speaking of?  Aah, I see you are in Australia.  Where I live, in the States, very few, even younger gals wear heels to grocery shop.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

queen said:


> What time period are you speaking of?  Aah, I see you are in Australia.  Where I live, in the States, very few, even younger gals wear heels to grocery shop.



I think it can be generational and not at all related to where you live.


----------



## queen

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think it can be generational and not at all related to where you live.


I agree, that is why I asked what time period.  The 40's attire was certainly different than today.  I know you mentioned 40's style but I do not know if you mean in the 40's.  I think more ladies probably wore heels grocery shopping in the 40's than now, but I am going on pictures, as I was not here in the 40's.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

queen said:


> I agree, that is why I asked what time period.  The 40's attire was certainly different than today.  I know you mentioned 40's style but I do not know if you mean in the 40's.  I think more ladies probably wore heels grocery shopping in the 40's than now, but I am going on pictures, as I was not here in the 40's.



No, like I said, almost up until the day she died in the early 90's, Gran dressed like that.


----------



## Wildflower22

I think geriatrics can be disqualified from the grocery store heels scenario. They love to dress up I've found. My grandma grew up in the 40s and fussed at me for wearing jeans to elementary school. She said I should wear a skirt. She was very tall but was one to dress up no matter where she went (no heels due to her knees though).


----------



## Wildflower22

Speaking of that grandma, she was dying in the hospital bed and had me paint her nails. Love and miss her!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Wildflower22 said:


> Speaking of that grandma, she was dying in the hospital bed and had me paint her nails. Love and miss her!


Awwww&#9829;


----------



## Jayne1

queen said:


> Do you think this is being photographed or filmed for PR?  I ask as I know no women over six foot and 65 years old who would wear heels grocery shopping.



Is she being filmed for one of the TV shows, or just a pap picture, because I agree, she is always dressed. It looks a bit uncomfortable too.



FreeSpirit71 said:


> LOL.  My Grandmother wore 1940's makeup, hair, mid-length dress or pant suit and heels almost to the day she died - yes, even shopping. Blue rinse hair and a 1940's short pin curl do. Gran was 6"1



Yes, but your grandmother wore heels from the beginning and it's not as easy to navigate in heels when you start to wear them in your 60s.

I know Cait said she liked to dress up at home, but that's nothing like wearing them all day, including running errands.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Jayne1 said:


> Is she being filmed for one of the TV shows, or just a pap picture, because I agree, she is always dressed. It looks a bit uncomfortable too.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but your grandmother wore heels from the beginning and it's not as easy to navigate in heels when you start to wear them in your 60s.
> 
> I know Cait said she liked to dress up at home, but that's nothing like wearing them all day, including running errands.



True, I tend to be against generalisations as a rule though. I know as many women who wear flats non-stop aside from nights out, as I do women who wear heels all day, every day and who could probably run a marathon in them 

Lets not forget Caitlyn probably didn't_ just_ start wearing them - she's probably been practicing in private for decades.


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> Read the third sentence.



That particular sentence was your own philosophy, it had little to do with what bisousx was saying...


----------



## queen

ByeKitty said:


> That particular sentence was your own philosophy, it had little to do with what bisousx was saying...


Well, her philosophy was clearly stated.  I responded with the third sentence and the following sentence as to why I felt it was not only what made her happy.  I posted I thought she was delusional.  Obviously we don't have a meeting of the minds but that does not matter as I posted it was jmho.  I can have one also.  You are not shy about stating yours so just let this one fly out of your mind if it bothers you.  Back on topic.


----------



## tweegy

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think it can be generational and not at all related to where you live.



You know, I think you have a point. My granny was like that.


----------



## dangerouscurves

FreeSpirit71 said:


> LOL.  My Grandmother wore 1940's makeup, hair, mid-length dress or pant suit and heels almost to the day she died - yes, even shopping. Blue rinse hair and a 1940's short pin curl do. Gran was 6"1




I prefer to see her than all these people of Walmart [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## bag-princess

*Prosecutors decline to charge Caitlyn Jenner in fatal crash*





LOS ANGELES (AP)  Prosecutors  declined to charge Caitlyn Jenner on Wednesday in a California car crash  that led to the death of another driver, saying there was not enough  evidence for a conviction.





Authorities  said Jenner was towing an off-road vehicle on a trailer behind a  Cadillac Escalade on Feb. 7 when she crashed into two cars, pushing one  into oncoming traffic. Driver Kim Howe was killed when her Lexus was hit  by a Hummer.




"We believed  from the start that a thorough and objective investigation would clear  Caitlyn of any criminal wrongdoing," said Blair Berk, Jenner's attorney.  "We are heartened the district attorney has agreed that even a  misdemeanor charge would be inappropriate. A traffic accident, however  devastating and heartbreaking when a life is lost, is not necessarily a  criminal matter."




The accident occurred before Jenner announced she is transgender and transitioned into her new identity as Caitlyn.
Sheriff's  investigators previously determined that Jenner, 65, was traveling at  an unsafe speed for the road conditions at the time and there was enough  evidence to support a vehicular manslaughter charge. The case was then  referred to the district attorney's major crimes division.






After the accident, Jenner released a statement expressing sympathy to everyone involved in the accident.
"It  is a devastating tragedy," the statement read. "I cannot pretend to  imagine what this family is going through at this time. I am praying for  them."




Jenner is facing  separate lawsuits by Howe's stepchildren and the driver of the other car  involved in the collision. Jenner's lawyers are fighting efforts to  have her give sworn testimony in a deposition in the wrongful death suit  filed by the stepchildren.
The  crash has shadowed Jenner's much-lauded transgender transition that was  announced in a two-hour television special with Diane Sawyer. A Vanity  Fair cover story revealed her new identity, and a reality series "I Am  Cait" chronicled her new life.
In  July, Jenner accepted the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs sports  achievement event and urged fellow athletes to join her and make  advocacy for transgender issues a priority.








http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutors-decline-charge-caitlyn-jenner-fatal-crash-182921275.html


----------



## Sassys

Caitlyn used the same lawyer as Brandy. Blair is known for getting her celeb clients out of jail time. I knew the minute Bruce had his accident he was going to hire her.

Caitlyn Jenner Will Not Be Charged in Deadly Car Accident: 'We Are Heartened,' Lawyer Says
http://www.people.com/article/caitlyn-jenner-not-charged-car-accident


----------



## DC-Cutie

Sassys said:


> Caitlyn used the same lawyer as Brandy. Blair is known for getting her celeb clients out of jail time. I knew the minute Bruce had his accident he was going to hire her.



but isn't that the goal for the attorneys, celeb clients or not?


----------



## Jikena

DC-Cutie said:


> but isn't that the goal for the attorneys, celeb clients or not?



 True


----------



## Ms.parker123

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think it can be generational and not at all related to where you live.


 
Agreed. 


SN: those shoes aren't even like real heels, where they would cause discomfort, there kitten's.  She looks normal and dress for every day wear here.


----------



## sdkitty

DC-Cutie said:


> but isn't that the goal for the attorneys, celeb clients or not?


yes, but most of us can't afford to hire someone like this
another case of money can buy justice?


----------



## DC-Cutie

sdkitty said:


> yes, but most of us can't afford to hire someone like this
> another case of money can buy justice?



i've seen people get off and I know they can't afford top counsel.  It's not always cut and dry - money to buy justice.

my main point is - an attorney's goal is to get their client off or with little punishment.


----------



## sdkitty

DC-Cutie said:


> i've seen people get off and I know they can't afford top counsel.  It's not always cut and dry - money to buy justice.
> 
> my main point is - an attorney's goal is to get their client off or with little punishment.


yes, it's their job to get people off
and if they're excellent and expensive then that gives a wealthy person a big advantage over a poor or middle class person in obtaining justice (or a good outcome for them)


----------



## Grace123

sdkitty said:


> yes, it's their job to get people off
> and if they're excellent and expensive then that gives a wealthy person a big advantage over a poor or middle class person in obtaining justice (or a good outcome for them)



Absolutely. 30+ years in a criminal defense law office has taught me that justice is expensive.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Grace123 said:


> Absolutely. 30+ years in a criminal defense law office has taught me that justice is expensive.




Especially if you're in the US.


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> but isn't that the goal for the attorneys, celeb clients or not?



She is known for always getting them off, even if they are guilty. There was an E! Special about her last year.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Sassys said:


> She is known for always getting them off, even if they are guilty. There was an E! Special about her last year.



ok...  she's no different than many in the legal profession.

I don't know of anybody that pays an attorney with the hopes of going to jail!  Attorneys know when their clients are guilty, but they do what they get paid to do


----------



## Sassys

DC-Cutie said:


> ok...  she's no different than many in the legal profession.
> 
> I don't know of anybody that pays an attorney with the hopes of going to jail!  Attorneys know when their clients are guilty, but they do what they get paid to do



Nevermind


----------



## labelwhore04

Not all lawyers are great though. Like any other service, you get what you pay for. You have people who are great at their profession and others who are not so great. Lawyers are no different. The truly talented ones who are excellent at what they do and have a perfect track record are gonna demand more $$.


----------



## dangerouscurves

labelwhore04 said:


> Not all lawyers are great though. Like any other service, you get what you pay for. You have people who are great at their profession and others who are not so great. Lawyers are no different. The truly talented ones who are excellent at what they do and have a perfect track record are gonna demand more $$.




The talented ones mean the crooked and the ones who can twist the facts?


----------



## Sasha2012

Her stepdaughter Kim Kardashian has been helping her to look her best since she revealed her new identity as a woman in June.

And Caitlyn Jenner showed she has mastered the Kardashian style when she stepped out in Los Angeles on Friday.

The 65-year-old looked fantastic in a tight white pencil skirt with a slit up the front, leaving her legs on show.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...l-skirt-shirt-steps-coffee.html#ixzz3nUCZ8Sdh


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think that's a decent outfit. That article though...lol...this outfit is miles ahead just in fit and dressing for your body type, than ANY Kardashian. Only Kourtney seems to dress well, and Kendall on occasion.


----------



## lizmil

Looks "fantastic" ? Like many a 65 year old woman. That hair from the back! Get a trim. Especially since you know you will be photographed.


----------



## Jayne1

lizmil said:


> Looks "fantastic" ? Like many a 65 year old woman. That hair from the back! Get a trim. Especially since you know you will be photographed.



She staged those shots. I'm beginning to hate her coffee run planned pap pictures.


----------



## queen

Jayne1 said:


> She staged those shots. I'm beginning to hate her coffee run planned pap pictures.


Yeah, I don't see any pockets.  How is she going to pay for that drink?

eta:  then i think did you check her hands and what do i find.  Sorry!!


----------



## queen

Jayne1 said:


> She staged those shots. I'm beginning to hate her coffee run planned pap pictures.


She needs to keep her self out there to keep the interest up.  When E payed her 5 million for those 8 episodes she wants to keep working this gig.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> She staged those shots. I'm beginning to hate her coffee run planned pap pictures.



Speaking of staged  
I was in a line of cars  to get to ramp down to parking last Wednesday and going slowly I see a pap slightly ahead off to the side, waiting. He starts taking pics in the window of the car right ahead of me. Pics stop and the guy rolls down the window and they talk then the guy opens the door and gets out and walks about 15 feet, turns walks back to car with pap clicking away. I guess the pap couldn't go down into parking because the building is private not city parking. It was surreal. Did not recognize the person. A guy w/dark BMW if anyone sees anything


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Speaking of staged
> I was in a line of cars  to get to ramp down to parking last Wednesday and going slowly I see a pap slightly ahead off to the side, waiting. He starts taking pics in the window of the car right ahead of me. Pics stop and the guy rolls down the window and they talk then the guy opens the door and gets out and walks about 15 feet, turns walks back to car with pap clicking away. I guess the pap couldn't go down into parking because the building is private not city parking. It was surreal. Did not recognize the person. A guy w/dark BMW if anyone sees anything



I can only shake my head...


----------



## maddie66

Encore Hermes said:


> Speaking of staged
> I was in a line of cars  to get to ramp down to parking last Wednesday and going slowly I see a pap slightly ahead off to the side, waiting. He starts taking pics in the window of the car right ahead of me. Pics stop and the guy rolls down the window and they talk then the guy opens the door and gets out and walks about 15 feet, turns walks back to car with pap clicking away. I guess the pap couldn't go down into parking because the building is private not city parking. It was surreal. Did not recognize the person. A guy w/dark BMW if anyone sees anything




Did you have to sit in car and wait in line while this was happening?  I live in Boston and that would have caused a riot (not a lot of patient drivers here....). [emoji3]


----------



## Encore Hermes

maddie66 said:


> *Did you have to sit in car and wait in line *while this was happening?  I live in Boston and that would have caused a riot (not a lot of patient drivers here....). [emoji3]




Yes but the initial pics took a couple seconds and getting out, walking back didn't take any time at all.  He didn't make it a slow drive, he was in the line as well. I was busy breaking a nail trying to dig my iPhone out of my bag for a pic  now _ that _ was irritating. 
It wasn't around retail in BH, it was an office building so maybe someone is thinking about changing management and they want it 'leaked' vs for the fan tabs.


----------



## V0N1B2

queen said:


> She needs to keep her self out there to keep the interest up.  When E payed her 5 million for those 8 episodes she wants to keep working this gig.


If she's going to keep herself out there, the least she could do is bring her bodyguard back.
IDGAF about Caitlyn and her kitten heels, I want to see the hot side piece she hired.

#wheresfrankfarmer?


----------



## pukasonqo

V0N1B2 said:


> If she's going to keep herself out there, the least she could do is bring her bodyguard back.
> 
> IDGAF about Caitlyn and her kitten heels, I want to see the hot side piece she hired.
> 
> 
> 
> #wheresfrankfarmer?




i think he might be in paris with PMK, if we are thinking of the same bodyguard...


----------



## usmcwifey

Is that her actual hair or is it a hair piece/wig?


----------



## Eva1991

FreeSpirit71 said:


> I think it can be generational and not at all related to where you live.



I agree. When I visit my local supermarket most of the older ladies I see shopping there are usually better dressed and more put together than the younger ones. Rarely do I see a woman over 60 in tracksuits and sneakers.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

V0N1B2 said:


> If she's going to keep herself out there, the least she could do is bring her bodyguard back.
> IDGAF about Caitlyn and her kitten heels, I want to see the hot side piece she hired.
> 
> #wheresfrankfarmer?


----------



## queen

Eva1991 said:


> I agree. When I visit my local supermarket most of the older ladies I see shopping there are usually better dressed and more put together than the younger ones. Rarely do I see a woman over 60 in tracksuits and sneakers.


I think this has gotten a little away from my thought.  That was a 65 year old woman probably would not wear heels shopping in a large store because they would be hard on her feet, knees and back.  Any 65 year old who has had the wear and tear of an athlete probably would have more problems.  So my comment had nothing to do with style or fashion but pain.  Jenner and I would be in the same age range and I know I would not subject myself to tromping around in a store in heels unless I was being filmed for tv.  I do not expect young women to understand this as it has to come to you for you to realize it.


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> I think this has gotten a little away from my thought.  That was a 65 year old woman probably would not wear heels shopping in a large store because they would be hard on her feet, knees and back.  Any 65 year old who has had the wear and tear of an athlete probably would have more problems.  So my comment had nothing to do with style or fashion but pain.  Jenner and I would be in the same age range and I know I would not subject myself to tromping around in a store in heels unless I was being filmed for tv.  I do not expect young women to understand this as it has to come to you for you to realize it.



I think this is a very individual thing... Some people tend to attach greater value to comfort, and others find it more important to look consistently elegant. I used to work at a shoe store and this elderly woman (in her 80s) would come in each week to see if we had any new heels in stock from her favorite brand. She had trouble walking and used a walking aid. She had to go to the hospital for foot surgery at a point and against the doctor's advice she would still wear her medium heeled little shoes. I personally think comfort and style are not mutually exclusive, but I guess opinions on this depend on the level of "casual" a person can handle. This woman was like a diva, very groomed and elegant looking and she just refused to wear flats.


----------



## Jayne1

queen said:


> I think this has gotten a little away from my thought.  That was a 65 year old woman probably would not wear heels shopping in a large store because they would be hard on her feet, knees and back.  Any 65 year old who has had the wear and tear of an athlete probably would have more problems.  So my comment had nothing to do with style or fashion but pain.  Jenner and I would be in the same age range and I know I would not subject myself to tromping around in a store in heels unless I was being filmed for tv.  I do not expect young women to understand this as it has to come to you for you to realize it.



Yes, I know what you mean.

Senior citizens often, hopefully, still want to present themselves in an attractive way, wear makeup and comb their hair, put on nice clothes, nothing too sloppy that only a teenager can get away with but dressing like Caitlyn to go for a coffee run?  After her personal hair and makeup team worked on her for a few hours and wearing heels and uncomfortable looking short, tight skirts?  That's for the paps.


----------



## Eva1991

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, I know what you mean.
> 
> Senior citizens often, hopefully, still want to present themselves in an attractive way, wear makeup and comb their hair, put on nice clothes, nothing too sloppy that only a teenager can get away with but dressing like Caitlyn to go for a coffee run?  After her personal hair and makeup team worked on her for a few hours and wearing heels and uncomfortable looking short, tight skirts?  That's for the paps.



That applies for all the Kardashians, not just Caitlyn. They all wear way too much make up and get glammed up to run errands, probably because they want to look presentable in the pap shots. Have you seen Kylie's make up when she goes for a coffee run? She's literally caked in make up.


----------



## Sasha2012

If they can make Kim Kardashian jealous, they are worth showing off.

Caitlyn Jenner flashed her impressive cleavage at the Voices On Point gala in LA on Saturday night.

The 65-year-old wore a daring red suit with a plunging neckline as she took to the stage to present an award at the Point Foundation ceremony.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...it-jacket-LGBTQ-Point-gala.html#ixzz3ndmmIycr


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Inappropriate cleavage alert.. and the jacket actually looks ill-fitting.


----------



## zippie

freespirit71 said:


> inappropriate cleavage alert.. And the jacket actually looks ill-fitting.


 


gross


----------



## labelwhore04

She rocks the pantsuit look, but she should've worn a cami underneath. The bra showing is just really inappropriate for a speaking engagement.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Shadow between her cleavage or contouring? Either way  too much and jacket doesn't fit. 





Daily mail


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

You know you're dealing with a Kardashian when she just doesn't wear a shirt to a charity speech.


----------



## queen

ByeKitty said:


> I think this is a very individual thing... Some people tend to attach greater value to comfort, and others find it more important to look consistently elegant. I used to work at a shoe store and this elderly woman (in her 80s) would come in each week to see if we had any new heels in stock from her favorite brand. She had trouble walking and used a walking aid. She had to go to the hospital for foot surgery at a point and against the doctor's advice she would still wear her medium heeled little shoes. I personally think comfort and style are not mutually exclusive, but I guess opinions on this depend on the level of "casual" a person can handle. This woman was like a diva, very groomed and elegant looking and she just refused to wear flats.


Once again I am speaking of the norm not thinking everyone behaves this way.  One can be dressed and groomed quite well and not be wearing heels.  I do not care who wears heels at any age just saying Jenner is playing to the camera. I doubt she wears heels for long periods of walking unless being filmed.  And I know a lady of 87 who refuses to wear appropriate footwear and is constantly complaining of her knees and back.  One can not protect a dummy from them self.   I see nothing about the dress, grooming or shoes on Jenner that impresses me.  Different strokes.  She is being lead to believe she is a fashion icon and I don't see it.  But that is jmho.


----------



## queen

Encore Hermes said:


> Shadow between her cleavage or contouring? Either way  too much and jacket doesn't fit.
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/04/07/2D10346500000578-0-image-a-15_1443940479131.jpg
> Daily mail


I have no words.  Well, yes I do.  I feel sorry for her.  Whoever is advising her is doing her a disservice.  No amount of money or fame is worth going out in public like this.


----------



## chowlover2

queen said:


> Once again I am speaking of the norm not thinking everyone behaves this way.  One can be dressed and groomed quite well and not be wearing heels.  I do not care who wears heels at any age just saying Jenner is playing to the camera. I doubt she wears heels for long periods of walking unless being filmed.  And I know a lady of 87 who refuses to wear appropriate footwear and is constantly complaining of her knees and back.  One can not protect a dummy from them self.   I see nothing about the dress, grooming or shoes on Jenner that impresses me.  Different strokes.  She is being lead to believe she is a fashion icon and I don't see it.  But that is jmho.




Agreed!


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Shadow between her cleavage or contouring? Either way  too much and jacket doesn't fit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily mail



Over the muscle implants?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Things that make me go hmmmm....

I saw the episode last night where Caitlyn gave Kim some of Bruce's old clothes to give to Kris. A comment was made about a few of the shirts that Bruce wore a lot and Caitlyn said (not a quote) something to the effect of *Think I should keep these in case I go back to living as Bruce?*

Did anyone else notice that? My ears sure did perk up!


----------



## Jikena

Coach Lover Too said:


> Things that make me go hmmmm....
> 
> I saw the episode last night where Caitlyn gave Kim some of Bruce's old clothes to give to Kris. A comment was made about a few of the shirts that Bruce wore a lot and Caitlyn said (not a quote) something to the effect of *Think I should keep these in case I go back to living as Bruce?*
> 
> Did anyone else notice that? My ears sure did perk up!



Nah, pretty sure it's Kim who asked "are you sure you don't wanna keep them ?" and then one of them laughed and said "in case I/you wanna go back ?"

EDIT : Went to see the episode again and this is the convo
Kim : "I keep these so you can take them back at any time if you would like"
Caitlyn : "If I ever go back ?"
Molica...Melika... I don't know, one of the twins xD, was there and laughed. It was a joke.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jikena said:


> Nah, pretty sure it's Kim who asked "are you sure you don't wanna keep them ?" and then one of them laughed and said "in case I/you wanna go back ?"



That was it.  
It was Caitlyn that said *in case I want to go back*. Weird that she would even think that.
 I also noticed that Caitlyn still doesn't refer to herself as *me* or *I* but instead calls herself Caitlyn.  I dunno about y'all but I never call myself by my first name when talking about myself. Odd to say the least.


----------



## bag-princess

Coach Lover Too said:


> That was it.
> It was Caitlyn that said *in case I want to go back*. Weird that she would even think that.
> I also noticed that Caitlyn still doesn't refer to herself as *me* or *I* but instead calls herself Caitlyn.  I dunno about y'all but I never call myself by my first name when talking about myself. Odd to say the least.





i don't think she was saying that - but questioning if that is what kim meant by saying that she would keep the clothes.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bag-princess said:


> i don't think she was saying that - but questioning if that is what kim meant by saying that she would keep the clothes.



Maybe so. Either way, it got my attention.


----------



## lanasyogamama

Does her mouth not close now?


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> Maybe so. Either way, it got my attention.


Here is something I was thinking about:  If Jenner felt she was a woman, how did she justify marrying three women, if her thought was that marriage was between a man and a woman?  That baffles me.  She would probably be better off moving someplace obscure and finding what she really wants.  Doubt she would last long as I think it is the attention she craves.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> Here is something I was thinking about:  If Jenner felt she was a woman, how did she justify marrying three women, if her thought was that marriage was between a man and a woman?  That baffles me.  She would probably be better off moving someplace obscure and finding what she really wants.  Doubt she would last long as I think it is the attention she craves.



That's a good question. I'd never thought of that before.
 It still puzzles me that she refers to herself in third person. Instead of *I might need this later* it's *Caitlyn might need this later.* Weird as all get out.
Couldn't agree more about your attention comment either.


----------



## sdkitty

I watched for a few minutes last night.  Kim was talking to Caitlyn and Caitlyn said she was very hurt by Kris, that Kris wanted her out of the marriage.  She said something to the effect that if Kris hadn't been to cruel she might not have gone in the direction she has (with the transgender).  

My question is if that's the case, is she truly transgender?  I thought a transgender person felt that way to their core.  

I'm thinking the whole bunch of them are fake and phony.  Kind of sad to see an olympic champion become this.


----------



## SpeedyJC

queen said:


> Here is something I was thinking about:  If Jenner felt she was a woman, how did she justify marrying three women, if her thought was that marriage was between a man and a woman?  That baffles me.  She would probably be better off moving someplace obscure and finding what she really wants.  Doubt she would last long as I think it is the attention she craves.


 
I guess its the same reason why some gay men marry women; they arnt ready to come out so they conform to the social norm of marriage.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Good gawd, didn't CJ try and show one of the sons her boobs in the beginning? Someone needs to remind this person that she's still a parent to the kids. This family is one big clusterf**k.

On Sunday's _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_, Kim tells her sister, Khloe, about recently helping Caitlyn change outfits.
"I  went into the closet, and she went to change, and she was like, 'You  can stay in,' and took off her top and had no bra," Kim reveals. "Her  boobs were like Kourtney's like when she first got hers done. Like, it  made me want a boob job. Like, the best boobs."


https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/caitlyn-jenner-claims-kim-kardashian-000500875.html


----------



## Coach Lover Too

My sentiments exactly.


MetropolisyesterdayThere's something sweet and endearing about a stepfather and stepdaughter comparing boobs in the closet.
Excuse me while I puke.


----------



## bag-princess

Coach Lover Too said:


> Good gawd, didn't CJ try and show one of the sons her boobs in the beginning? Someone needs to remind this person that she's still a parent to the kids. This family is one big clusterf**k.
> 
> On Sunday's _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_, Kim tells her sister, Khloe, about recently helping Caitlyn change outfits.
> "I  went into the closet, and she went to change, and she was like, 'You  can stay in,' and took off her top and had no bra," Kim reveals. "*Her  boobs were like Kourtney's like when she first got hers done*. Like, it  made me want a boob job. Like, the best boobs."
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/caitlyn-jenner-claims-kim-kardashian-000500875.html






kourtney doesn't have boobies!  what did she have done???


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> That was it.
> It was Caitlyn that said *in case I want to go back*. Weird that she would even think that.
> I also noticed that Caitlyn still doesn't refer to herself as *me* or *I* but instead calls herself Caitlyn.  I dunno about y'all but I never call myself by my first name when talking about myself. Odd to say the least.



Interesting.


----------



## Sasha2012

When your lips turn blue after eating under-cooked food, it is normally a cause for concern. 

But thankfully Kylie Jenner's lapis lips were an anti-bullying statement, and not because of the sushi she just ate.

The 18-year-old and her father Caitlyn headed out for a dinner date to Sugarfish in Calabasas on Monday.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...k-support-bullying-victims.html#ixzz3nnGANAcp


----------



## queen

Sasha2012 said:


> When your lips turn blue after eating under-cooked food, it is normally a cause for concern.
> 
> But thankfully Kylie Jenner's lapis lips were an anti-bullying statement, and not because of the sushi she just ate.
> 
> The 18-year-old and her father Caitlyn headed out for a dinner date to Sugarfish in Calabasas on Monday.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...k-support-bullying-victims.html#ixzz3nnGANAcp


Not that it means anything to anybody but i find these pictures disturbing.


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> Good gawd, didn't CJ try and show one of the sons her boobs in the beginning? Someone needs to remind this person that she's still a parent to the kids. This family is one big clusterf**k.
> 
> On Sunday's _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_, Kim tells her sister, Khloe, about recently helping Caitlyn change outfits.
> "I  went into the closet, and she went to change, and she was like, 'You  can stay in,' and took off her top and had no bra," Kim reveals. "Her  boobs were like Kourtney's like when she first got hers done. Like, it  made me want a boob job. Like, the best boobs."
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/caitlyn-jenner-claims-kim-kardashian-000500875.html


This is just bizarre.  No matter how many boob jobs she gets or how many judges declare her a woman as long as she is still in intact in the male genital area she is a man.  How many step-fathers find it appropriate to share changing with their step-daughters.  Not right.  Don't care PC people not right.


----------



## pukasonqo

boundaries, the kartrashians either do not know anything about them, don't give a toss about them or is just another storyline so we keep talking about them, in this case the subcontext would be: "we are so cool and open minded about caitlyn that we even get undressed together!"
i am tempted to start writing "K"aitlyn...


----------



## pinkfeet

Coach Lover Too said:


> Good gawd, didn't CJ try and show one of the sons her boobs in the beginning? Someone needs to remind this person that she's still a parent to the kids. This family is one big clusterf**k.
> 
> On Sunday's _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_, Kim tells her sister, Khloe, about recently helping Caitlyn change outfits.
> "I  went into the closet, and she went to change, and she was like, 'You  can stay in,' and took off her top and had no bra," Kim reveals. "*Her  boobs were like Kourtney's like when she first got hers done. Like, it  made me want a boob job. Like, the best boobs."*
> 
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/caitlyn-jenner-claims-kim-kardashian-000500875.html



Kim is still going with the story she never got her boobs done? She must be on her 4th or 5th one by now!! Come on.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> This is just bizarre.  No matter how many boob jobs she gets or how many judges declare her a woman as long as she is still in intact in the male genital area she is a man.  How many step-fathers find it appropriate to share changing with their step-daughters.  Not right.  Don't care PC people not right.



I totally agree. CJ is as classless as the rest of them.


----------



## michie

pinkfeet said:


> Kim is still going with the story she never got her boobs done? She must be on her 4th or 5th one by now!! Come on.



The funny part is I watched this and I would swear she said, "Her boobs are just like Kim and Kourtney's...Kourtney's when she first got them done!" It was like she slipped and was correcting herself lol.


----------



## ByeKitty

queen said:


> This is just bizarre.  No matter how many boob jobs she gets or how many judges declare her a woman as long as she is still in intact in the male genital area she is a man.  How many step-fathers find it appropriate to share changing with their step-daughters.  Not right.  Don't care PC people not right.



You're saying that as if it were a fact... If she declares herself a woman, and if judges declare her a woman, than I don't see any reason to maintain that she's a man. It's more than my genitals that make me a woman.


----------



## bag-princess

ByeKitty said:


> You're saying that as if it were a fact... If she declares herself a woman, and if judges declare her a woman, than I don't see any reason to maintain that she's a man. *It's more than my genitals that make me a woman.*




and it is also is more than dresses and make-up that makes someone a woman!   he and the judge and jury can declare it but if he is still walking around with all his stuff that a man has - yea.  that is what he is.


----------



## ByeKitty

Sasha2012 said:


> When your lips turn blue after eating under-cooked food, it is normally a cause for concern.
> 
> But thankfully Kylie Jenner's lapis lips were an anti-bullying statement, and not because of the sushi she just ate.
> 
> The 18-year-old and her father Caitlyn headed out for a dinner date to Sugarfish in Calabasas on Monday.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...k-support-bullying-victims.html#ixzz3nnGANAcp



They both look like complete clowns, and as if they dressed for different climates.


----------



## ByeKitty

bag-princess said:


> and it is also is more than dresses and make-up that makes someone a woman!   he and the judge and jury can declare it but if he is still walking around with all his stuff that a man has - yea.  that is what he is.



Oh I agree, it's more than all of these skin deep things (dresses and vaginas) that make a woman. It's hard to pinpoint exactly "what makes a woman", so as I see it, it's best to go by how a person experiences this world and his or her place in it. I legitimately do not think Caitlyn is a man.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ByeKitty said:


> They both look like complete clowns, and as if they dressed for different climates.



They look like they're wearing each others clothes!


----------



## queen

ByeKitty said:


> You're saying that as if it were a fact... If she declares herself a woman, and if judges declare her a woman, than I don't see any reason to maintain that she's a man. It's more than my genitals that make me a woman.


Not to be personal, but how does you saying Jenner is a man make her a man.  If you are female I suppose you have the other characteristics that make you so.  You probably don't need to have surgery and hormones.  So if I get plastic surgery to make me resemble Marilyn Monroe does it make me MM?  Hey, I have always felt I was Marilyn please declare me to be her?  No, I don't buy it but if you do fine.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

My little dog thinks he's a cat, he grooms himself like a cat, he rubs up against furniture like a cat but no matter what he does, he's still a Maltese and nothing will change it.
I'll always think of CJ as BJ and it's still hard for me to see pics and think of CJ as female. Maybe if I hadn't been familiar with him beforehand it'd be easier to accept.
I can't imagine being one of the children and trying to adapt.


----------



## VickyB

Coach Lover Too said:


> My little dog thinks he's a cat, he grooms himself like a cat, he rubs up against furniture like a cat but no matter what he does, he's still a Maltese and nothing will change it.
> I'll always think of CJ as BJ and it's still hard for me to see pics and think of CJ as female. Maybe if I hadn't been familiar with him beforehand it'd be easier to accept.
> I can't imagine being one of the children and trying to adapt.




LOL!!! My cat fetches - the dog can't be bothered!!!!


----------



## VickyB

ByeKitty said:


> You're saying that as if it were a fact... If she declares herself a woman, and if judges declare her a woman, than I don't see any reason to maintain that she's a man. It's more than my genitals that make me a woman.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> My sentiments exactly.
> 
> 
> MetropolisyesterdayThere's something sweet and endearing about a stepfather and stepdaughter comparing boobs in the closet.
> Excuse me while I puke.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23].


----------



## ByeKitty

VickyB said:


>



I know right, but sometimes this thread really needs some counterweight because it's mostly  with the opposite arguments. I guess it all depends on how much weight you attach to the word "woman". I really mean woman in the cultural sense, not biological. 
If you are naturally brunette but dye your hair blonde - are you a blonde? Or will you never be blonde no matter how hard you try?


----------



## dangerouscurves

VickyB said:


> LOL!!! My cat fetches - the dog can't be bothered!!!!




My cat does that too and he actually bring whatever I throw back to me!


----------



## Docjeun

Going to wherever these Hollywood types live must be like going to a freak show is all I have to say.  They seem to start with the cheek fillers/implants and from there it just keeps getting worse and worse.  Amazing...:


----------



## dangerouscurves

I think I can understand both sides. I have a transsexual friend who is transitioning. She just had sex reassignment surgery in August. She has always been feminine so there's no way I'd address her as he and other people also wouldn't. She has feminine mannerisms, delicate bones and accent. But the problem with Caitlyn is that aside from the PS and the boob job, she doesn't try to act feminine. I understand that there are women who are tomboys and masculine but these are biologically women while Caitlyn is not. For most of us she seems to just wanna appear like a glamorous woman on the outside. I mean, she went to all-men golf club! YKWIM?


----------



## queen

ByeKitty said:


> I know right, but sometimes this thread really needs some counterweight because it's mostly  with the opposite arguments. I guess it all depends on how much weight you attach to the word "woman". I really mean woman in the cultural sense, not biological.
> If you are naturally brunette but dye your hair blonde - are you a blonde? Or will you never be blonde no matter how hard you try?


Interesting that you make that analogy as I have always referred to blondes and bleached blondes.  I do see a difference.  I made a comment on here not long ago about celebs and dark roots.  Some said they like the dark roots I never did.  So yes, it is about perception.  Being perfectly honest, I would never be unkind or discriminate against a trans gendered person, but i do not necessarily think it is the way to go.  But hey, I don 't rule the world.  That said, I see nothing about Jenner that is female other than clothing and makeup.  She still looks and acts masculine to me. That is an opinion  and each person has a right to one.  One can not help what they think but they can help what they do.   One can not simply declare them self to be something and expect everyone else to buy it.  Being trans gendered makes her a politically correct protected class.  I believe in being kind and fair to all but I do not have to agree.


----------



## sdkitty

queen said:


> Interesting that you make that analogy as I have always referred to blondes and bleached blondes.  I do see a difference.  I made a comment on here not long ago about celebs and dark roots.  Some said they like the dark roots I never did.  So yes, it is about perception.  Being perfectly honest, I would never be unkind or discriminate against a trans gendered person, but i do not necessarily think it is the way to go.  But hey, I don 't rule the world.  That said, I see nothing about Jenner that is female other than clothing and makeup.  She still looks and acts masculine to me. That is an opinion  and each person has a right to one.  One can not help what they think but they can help what they do.   One can not simply declare them self to be something and expect everyone else to buy it.  Being trans gendered makes her a politically correct protected class.  I believe in being kind and fair to all but I do not have to agree.


I agree.  There are transgenders and transvestites who really look like beautiful women.  Caitlyn is not one of them.  She was a large athletic man and waited until an advanced age to do this.  Just looks like a man is a skirt and heels.  I wouldn't be cruel to her or ridicule her but just because she's had the benefit of a lot of expensive hair and makeup and airbrushed photos doesn't make her really feminine to me.


----------



## chowlover2

sdkitty said:


> I agree.  There are transgenders and transvestites who really look like beautiful women.  Caitlyn is not one of them.  She was a large athletic man and waited until an advanced age to do this.  Just looks like a man is a skirt and heels.  I wouldn't be cruel to her or ridicule her but just because she's had the benefit of a lot of expensive hair and makeup and airbrushed photos doesn't make her really feminine to me.




Agreed!


----------



## mcb100

^Right. I support that CJ is spreading awareness about the troubles of trans people, or making it public, and I mostly *think* that she has decent intentions (although she needs to rephrase her words), and I do know a few trans people and I absolutely support all of that. But if I'm being perfectly honest here, I don't consider CJ to be very feminine looking. And that doesn't take away from the fact that I think what she's trying to do at the core is mostly good, and I have absolutely no problem with her switching genders. But, like someone just said, she waited until she wasn't very young anymore to do this, and she's an athlete who in my opinion has always had a taller, more athletic, build. Also from previous P.S., her face is pulled very tight. I don't have any problems with her besides her lack of parenting her children, but I feel like I don't really know her or the family personally so I don't know, yanno? But I'm just saying I don't look at her and think she's ultra feminine. Do I think that that's significant at all? No. (As long as she's happy with her own appearance.) But it's how I feel, yanno?


As far as blondes go, I myself have naturally dark hair that's lightened blond. Do I consider myself a blond? Of course. Do I consider myself a *natural *blond? Nope, definitely not.   But I understand that that's only my opinion, and other people have their own opinion and may feel differently about that. We can all have different opinions about different subjects. 


Just putting my two cents in. Thought I'd share how I feel about the recent subject, is all.


----------



## BrandSnob

sdkitty said:


> i agree.  There are transgenders and transvestites who really look like beautiful women.  Caitlyn is not one of them.  She was a large athletic man and waited until an advanced age to do this.  Just looks like a man is a skirt and heels.  I wouldn't be cruel to her or ridicule her but just because she's had the benefit of a lot of expensive hair and makeup and airbrushed photos doesn't make her really feminine to me.




+1


----------



## FreeSpirit71

sdkitty said:


> I agree.  There are transgenders and transvestites who really look like beautiful women.  Caitlyn is not one of them.  She was a large athletic man and waited until an advanced age to do this.  Just looks like a man is a skirt and heels.  I wouldn't be cruel to her or ridicule her but just because she's had the benefit of a lot of expensive hair and makeup and airbrushed photos doesn't make her really feminine to me.



I agree with this, and its a seperate issue from the transgender journey. Caitlyn has been a man, dressed as a man and walked like a man for 85% of her life. 

Her face isn't soft and her makeup isn't either. I believe Caitlyn has had numerous facial procedures...some of which are still settling. But she's 65...and its probably not going to look better.

I think the idea of "less is more" is lost on the Kardashian/Jenners though.


----------



## Jayne1

sdkitty said:


> I agree.  There are transgenders and transvestites who really look like beautiful women.  Caitlyn is not one of them.  She was a large athletic man and waited until an advanced age to do this.  Just looks like a man is a skirt and heels.  I wouldn't be cruel to her or ridicule her but just because she's had the benefit of a lot of expensive hair and makeup and airbrushed photos doesn't make her really feminine to me.



Agree and as we have said in the past, she's not feminine.

Her paid-for-reality-TV-friends were extremely feminine, as a comparison. And they wore so much less makeup and had normal hair. Some even had low voices, but their demeanour was so feminine, you never thought about them being trans.


----------



## VickyB

dangerouscurves said:


> My cat does that too and he actually bring whatever I throw back to me!



Mine too - that's what I meant. I toss the ball and she brings it right back to me! She can do this for hours if I played along.


----------



## dooneybaby

ByeKitty said:


> They both look like complete clowns, and as if they dressed for different climates.


And most 65-year-old women do not wear skirts all the way up their hoochie.


----------



## skarsbabe

dooneybaby said:


> And most 65-year-old women do not wear skirts all the way up their hoochie.



THIS! I'm in my 20's and don't wear skirts as high up as this person, who yes, could still have stuff peeking out!


----------



## krissa

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...-taking-secret-photoshoot-December-issue.html


Another award for the shelf! Caitlyn Jenner set to be 'honored as Glamour magazine's Woman of the Year', after taking part in 'top secret' photoshoot for its December issue

Caitlyn Jenner may have made her debut on the cover of Vanity Fair less than six months ago, but the 65-year-old is reportedly set to star in yet another high-profile photoshoot - this time for Glamour magazine's Woman of the Year issue.

TV show The Doctors is reporting that the magazine has photographed the former Olympian for its celebratory December issue during a top secret shoot, which is set to be published in November. 

Glamour has yet to confirm or deny the report, but a spokesperson revealed to The Doctors that it is announcing all of the honorees on November 3.

Scroll down for video 


Amazing accolade: Caitlyn Jenner, 65, is reportedly set to be named as Glamour's Woman of the Year on November 3 

Getting glam: The magazine reportedly photographed Caitlyn for the November issue during a 'top secret' shoot. She is pictured in an Instagram shot posted earlier this month, having her hair and make-up done 
The Glamour Awards are hosted by the magazine annually to honor the year's most inspiring women.

Last year, actress Lupita Nyong'o was named Glamour's Woman of the Year and covered the magazine's November issue following her Oscar win for her film debut 12 Years a Slave.

Other 2014 honorees included transgender actress Laverne Cox, Good Morning America anchor and cancer survivor Robin Roberts, and model-turned-philanthropist Natalia Vodianova. 

Following her divorce from wife Kris Jenner, Caitlyn, who was formerly known as Bruce Jenner came out as a transgender woman in a candid interview with Diane Sawyer in April.

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Iconic moment: Caitlyn, who was formerly known as Bruce Jenner, made her debut on the July cover of Vanity Fair 

Powerful message: Caitlyn attended the Voices On Point gala in Los Angeles on Saturday where she presented the Point Horizon Award for young leaders who have advocated for the LGBTQ community
A few months later, she introduced herself to the world as Caitlyn with a stunning Vanity Fair cover shot by famed photographer Annie Leibovitz.

For the magazine's July cover, Caitlyn wore an elegant cream corset and matching briefs, while inside the issue the parent-of-six modeled a variety of designer dresses as she spoke of her transition and her family.

'If I was lying on my deathbed and I had kept this secret and never ever did anything about it, I would be lying there saying, "You just blew your entire life, you never dealt with yourself,"' she told the publication of her transition. 

See more of the latest Caitlyn Jenner news, pictures and video updates 


Style star: Caitlyn wore a red lace bra and a plunging suit jacket to the Voices on Point gala (pictured)

Style star: Caitlyn wore a white button-down shirtdress at the 8th Annual Safety Harbor Kids Polo Classic Fundraiser in September (pictured)

Family ties: The reality television star can be seen posing for a selfie with her 34-year-old step-daughter Kim Kardashian, who has been a great support throughout her transition
Cailtyn joined other transgender icons to bring conversations about gender and identity to the forefront, and in July she was given the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the 2015 ESPYs where she urged acceptance for transgender men and women.

Last week, Caitlyn gave her second speech at Voices On Point gala in Los Angeles on Saturday night. The reality television star wore a red lace bra and a plunging suit jacket to present the Point Horizon Award, which is given to inspirational young leaders who have advocated for the LGBTQ community. 

Caitlyn chronicled her life after her gender transition with her E! documentary series I Am Cait, which debuted in July following her Vanity Fair cover. 

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Candid conversation: Caitlyn, who can be seen speaking with her ex-wife Kris Jenner, 59, chronicled her journey on her E! documentary series I Am Cait

Rising star: Lupita Nyong'o was named Glamour's 2014 Woman of the Year and covered the magazine's November issue following her Oscar win for her film debut 12 Years a Slave
Last month, Caitlyn legally changed her name and gender, going from William Bruce Jenner to Caitlyn Marie Jenner. 

She already hosted a name-changing ceremony for her and her friends which was documented on her E! series.

While Caitlyn has been open about her facial surgeries and breast implants, she has yet to reveal if and when she has or plans to surgically remove her penis and have female genitalia constructed. 

Daily Mail Online has contacted Glamour magazine for comment. 

The Doctors airs Monday to Friday; check the website for local listings


----------



## dangerouscurves

VickyB said:


> Mine too - that's what I meant. I toss the ball and she brings it right back to me! She can do this for hours if I played along.




That's just cuuuute!!!!!


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner appeared to be relaxed spirits as she enjoyed a leisurely day out in Los Angeles on Wednesday afternoon.

Sipping on a refreshing drink outside a local Jamba Juice bar, the 65-year-old seemed content during the low-key outing.

She dressed down in a plain white blouse and cropped denim jeans, while concealing her eyes with stylish sunglasses.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ls-fatal-car-crash-emerges.html#ixzz3o0mjb5sz


----------



## Jikena

That gap on her scalp. :x


----------



## zippie

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner appeared to be relaxed spirits as she enjoyed a leisurely day out in Los Angeles on Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> Sipping on a refreshing drink outside a local Jamba Juice bar, the 65-year-old seemed content during the low-key outing.
> 
> She dressed down in a plain white blouse and cropped denim jeans, while concealing her eyes with stylish sunglasses.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ls-fatal-car-crash-emerges.html#ixzz3o0mjb5sz


 
I see your two balls and a bat B/C...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Wonder how long it'll be before CJ shows her stuff in a centerfold? She's tried showing her boobs to everyone else.

I like that bag. Anyone what it is?


----------



## queen

zippie said:


> I see your two balls and a bat B/C...


I believe we were seeing the same thing.  Interesting that glamour is making someone with that crotch shot "woman of the year".  I can not believe all the posters who cry camel toe let this go by but i guess it is not pc.  This is all so bizarre.  If people want to trans gender I have nothing to say but when they are tapped for multiple awards and have barely been a woman four months it is strange.  How about some women who have been women longer?   Note to self don't feed the animal any longer.  It is all about publicity and I don't want to give them more.  Vanity Fair and Glamour are no longer on my radar.


----------



## AEGIS

she's been a woman for under a year.
no thanks


----------



## chowlover2

queen said:


> I believe we were seeing the same thing.  Interesting that glamour is making someone with that crotch shot "woman of the year".  I can not believe all the posters who cry camel toe let this go by but i guess it is not pc.  This is all so bizarre.  If people want to trans gender I have nothing to say but when they are tapped for multiple awards and have barely been a woman four months it is strange.  How about some women who have been women longer?   Note to self don't feed the animal any longer.  It is all about publicity and I don't want to give them more.  Vanity Fair and Glamour are no longer on my radar.







AEGIS said:


> she's been a woman for under a year.
> no thanks




Agreed!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

This is off topic, sorta but some might find it really interesting. The pics are amazing and the changes are so subtle.
*This Trans Guy Took A Selfie Every Day For Three Years To Show How His Face Changed*

                		   				 				 				&#8220;I didn&#8217;t like looking in the mirror before I started on  testosterone. Now I&#8217;m happy with what I see.&#8221; Jamie Raines talked to  BuzzFeed News about capturing his transition and transforming his life. 				 								 			

http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstru...e-every-day-for-3-years-to-show-h#.ht7eo6X3Z0


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> This is off topic, sorta but some might find it really interesting. The pics are amazing and the changes are so subtle.
> *This Trans Guy Took A Selfie Every Day For Three Years To Show How His Face Changed*
> 
> I didnt like looking in the mirror before I started on  testosterone. Now Im happy with what I see. Jamie Raines talked to  BuzzFeed News about capturing his transition and transforming his life.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstru...e-every-day-for-3-years-to-show-h#.ht7eo6X3Z0




What an amazing transformation! Thanks for posting!


----------



## Staci_W

I'm sick of this family being shoved in our face by magazines. I won't buy if any of the Ks or Js are the cover story.


----------



## VickyB

dangerouscurves said:


> That's just cuuuute!!!!!



Thanks and it is extra cute because she is a 4 month old kitten!!


----------



## ChanelMommy

Staci_W said:


> I'm sick of this family being shoved in our face by magazines. I won't buy if any of the Ks or Js are the cover story.



This


----------



## Coach Lover Too

chowlover2 said:


> What an amazing transformation! Thanks for posting!



You're welcome.


----------



## qudz104

queen said:


> I believe we were seeing the same thing.  Interesting that glamour is making someone with that crotch shot "woman of the year".  I can not believe all the posters who cry camel toe let this go by but i guess it is not pc.  This is all so bizarre.  If people want to trans gender I have nothing to say but when they are tapped for multiple awards and have barely been a woman four months it is strange.  How about some women who have been women longer?   Note to self don't feed the animal any longer.  It is all about publicity and I don't want to give them more.  Vanity Fair and Glamour are no longer on my radar.




Agreed... Many other women out there that deserve it a lot more then this one.


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> This is off topic, sorta but some might find it really interesting. The pics are amazing and the changes are so subtle.
> *This Trans Guy Took A Selfie Every Day For Three Years To Show How His Face Changed*
> 
> I didnt like looking in the mirror before I started on  testosterone. Now Im happy with what I see. Jamie Raines talked to  BuzzFeed News about capturing his transition and transforming his life.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstru...e-every-day-for-3-years-to-show-h#.ht7eo6X3Z0



Oh wow.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> This is off topic, sorta but some might find it really interesting. The pics are amazing and the changes are so subtle.
> *This Trans Guy Took A Selfie Every Day For Three Years To Show How His Face Changed*
> 
> I didnt like looking in the mirror before I started on  testosterone. Now Im happy with what I see. Jamie Raines talked to  BuzzFeed News about capturing his transition and transforming his life.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstru...e-every-day-for-3-years-to-show-h#.ht7eo6X3Z0




Wow!!! It's easier to turn masculine from feminine with only testosterones because all babies in the belly are female before hormones and chromosomes take part.


----------



## Tivo

Coach Lover Too said:


> This is off topic, sorta but some might find it really interesting. The pics are amazing and the changes are so subtle.
> *This Trans Guy Took A Selfie Every Day For Three Years To Show How His Face Changed*
> 
> &#8220;I didn&#8217;t like looking in the mirror before I started on  testosterone. Now I&#8217;m happy with what I see.&#8221; Jamie Raines talked to  BuzzFeed News about capturing his transition and transforming his life.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstru...e-every-day-for-3-years-to-show-h#.ht7eo6X3Z0


Look at that sorcery.


----------



## labelwhore04

Its easier to transition from female to male i think. Look at Chaz Bono. You could never tell he used to be female.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I wonder what's more common. Male to female or female to male?


----------



## Dallas_Girl

It did take the kid time to transition too. It took 2 years for facial hair to appear. It takes more than a few months, hence the word transition used. It's a long process. 

Kudos to his family for being so supportive.


----------



## skarsbabe

The timelapse video is pretty crazy. I agree thought it would probably be much easier to go to male and gain jagged features/hair than to try and lose it the other way around.


----------



## Michele26

I can't look at her toes too long, they make my stomach upset.


----------



## bag-mania

Michele26 said:


> I can't look at her toes too long, they make my stomach upset.



Hey, those toes won the 1,500 meter in the 1976 Olympics. They can't be athletic _and_ pretty.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm amazed that CJ's camel toe is the smallest of the whole bunch!


----------



## Docjeun

Coach Lover Too said:


> Wonder how long it'll be before CJ shows her stuff in a centerfold? She's tried showing her boobs to everyone else.
> 
> I like that bag. Anyone what it is?



I wonder just what he carries in that bag....


----------



## Michele26

bag-mania said:


> Hey, those toes won the 1,500 meter in the 1976 Olympics. They can't be athletic _and_ pretty.



Wonder if he had polish on them then too?


----------



## knasarae

Has anyone read about the small village in the DR, where they have what they call "Guevedoce".  It means something like penis at 12.  I don't mean to trivialize, because I don't fully understand.  But basically when these babies are born they appear to be girls.  They appear to have no testes or penis, a vagina.  But then later when they hit puberty they grow a penis and become male. 

A doctor studied them and found that


> the reason they don&#8217;t have male genitalia at birth is because they are deficient in an enzyme called 5-&#945;-reductase, which normally converts testosterone into dihydro-testosterone. So they appear female when they are born, but around puberty, when they get another surge of testosterone, they sprout muscles, testes and a penis.


Source:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci.../Dr-Michael-Mosely-growing-a-penis-at-12.html

I thought that was absolutely fascinating.  Apparently this study/discovery has also led to new effective treatments for men with prostate issues.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

That article was really interesting. The percentage seems to be awfully high for that area too. 1/90 Wonder why that is??


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

^^ I saw that. I think it has something to do with their population being genetically isolated.


----------



## V0N1B2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm amazed that CJ's camel toe is the smallest of the whole bunch!


That's ca_male_toe, doll.
Cheers!


----------



## AEGIS

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'm amazed that CJ's camel toe is the smallest of the whole bunch!





omg ur right. her tuck game is serious.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

V0N1B2 said:


> That's ca_male_toe, doll.
> Cheers!


----------



## uhpharm01

Coach Lover Too said:


> I wonder what's more common. Male to female or female to male?



That's a good question


----------



## uhpharm01

bag-mania said:


> Hey, those toes won the 1,500 meter in the 1976 Olympics. They can't be athletic _and_ pretty.


Hahaha. Yep


----------



## Jayne1

bag-mania said:


> Hey, those toes won the 1,500 meter in the 1976 Olympics. They can't be athletic _and_ pretty.



Well, Cait thinks they're pretty.  She said so and she's always showing them off.


----------



## dangerouscurves

V0N1B2 said:


> That's ca_male_toe, doll.
> 
> Cheers!







AEGIS said:


> omg ur right. her tuck game is serious.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

AEGIS said:


> omg ur right. her tuck game is serious.



I wonder how she does it? It must be so uncomfortable!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Babydoll Chanel said:


> I wonder how she does it? It must be so uncomfortable!



 wikihow

How to tuck and tape.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Encore Hermes said:


> wikihow
> 
> How to tuck and tape.



Thanks, doll! Had no idea how he'd (or anyone else in that situation) would do it. Looks uncomfy...


----------



## Jayne1

Okay, I didn't read it, but does that mean they are tucked and taped all day, or just to go out for a pap walk?


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> Okay, I didn't read it, but does that mean they are tucked and taped all day, or just to go out for a pap walk?



I would think all day, it is complicated. 

breaking it down lets just say that step two of seven involves the inguinal canals and step three involves duct tape


----------



## dangerouscurves

How do they pee?


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

dangerouscurves said:


> How do they pee?



They hold it in until they're home


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Ouch!*


----------



## uhpharm01

Babydoll Chanel said:


> They hold it in until they're home



That's painful.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Becoming aroused was a no-no as well.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

uhpharm01 said:


> That's painful.



I have no idea, I'm just assuming, lol.


----------



## AEGIS

dangerouscurves said:


> How do they pee?



once you tuck my love, one does not simply untuck.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Babydoll Chanel said:


> They hold it in until they're home







AEGIS said:


> once you tuck my love, one does not simply untuck.




[emoji4][emoji4][emoji4]. I can't imagine.... I think if they wear A-line skirts they won't have to tuck it.


----------



## AEGIS

dangerouscurves said:


> [emoji4][emoji4][emoji4]. I can't imagine.... I think if they wear A-line skirts they won't have to tuck it.



i think that'd be worst! just loose d*ck swinging around?


----------



## uhpharm01

Babydoll Chanel said:


> I have no idea, I'm just assuming, lol.



I have no idea either. I'm just assuming that which I shouldn't do that either assume


----------



## ChanelMommy

V0N1B2 said:


> That's ca_male_toe, doll.
> Cheers!



Your avatar Ermergerd...dying:lolots::lolots::lolots:


----------



## ChanelMommy

AEGIS said:


> i think that'd be worst! just loose d*ck swinging around?


----------



## chowlover2

I looked up tucking on You Tube and there are loads of how to videos. Nothing graphic, but it sounds very painful. Duct tape and one's private parts are not meant to go together. I think someone needs to invent Super Spanx for transgendered!


----------



## dangerouscurves

chowlover2 said:


> I looked up tucking on You Tube and there are loads of how to videos. Nothing graphic, but it sounds very painful. Duct tape and one's private parts are not meant to go together. I think someone needs to invent Super Spanx for transgendered!




Agreed! Superspanx with hips and butt pads.


----------



## mrsinsyder

At what point does this become body dysmorphic disorder?


----------



## Tivo

Bruce looks absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I'm not sure, but I wish CJ would work on looking so surprised.
I thought that was Kylie in with her in the top pic for a second.


----------



## lanasyogamama

Wow, that pic makes me sad.  She looks awful, and all the bystanders are clearly laughing at her.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Interesting expressions from the crowd.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Wow.  Caitlyn really needs to say "_Whoa Nelly"_ on the facial procedures.


----------



## mrsinsyder

She truly looks alien-like.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

It seems as though the whole family has lost it.


----------



## berrydiva

Oh wow...I just...wow.


----------



## mrsinsyder

Tivo said:


> Bruce looks absolutely ridiculous.


The big sparkly t-shirt isn't exactly... feminine either... it's causing linebacker shoulders.


----------



## Luvbolide

I actually didn't think the outfit was bad - especially compared to some of what she's been wearing of late.  But the face...OMG...


----------



## celebwrek

If we are talking about Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner then why not peek this...

Bruce jenner later changed his name to Caitlyn Jenner in June 2015 as he  came out as a trans women. She then started stating herself with  feminine pronouns. She is the most famous transgender person in the  globe. She was married three times prior to his public gender  transformation.

Source : http://wikiquicky.com/celebrity/caitlyn-jenner-wiki-bio-transgender-and-updates.htmlhttp://wikiquicky.com/caitlyn-jenner-wiki-bio-transgender-and-updates.html


----------



## Coach Lover Too

celebwrek said:


> If we are talking about Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner then why not peek this...
> 
> Bruce jenner later changed his name to Caitlyn Jenner in June 2015 as he  came out as a trans women. She then started stating herself with  feminine pronouns. She is the most famous transgender person in the  globe. She was married three times prior to his public gender  transformation.
> 
> Source : http://wikiquicky.com/caitlyn-jenner-wiki-bio-transgender-and-updates.html



I took a peek and got this:

*Error 404*

   Unable to find the requested url.


----------



## celebwrek

Coach Lover Too said:


> I took a peek and got this:
> 
> *Error 404*
> 
> Unable to find the requested url.


Sorry for the inconvenience.. I mistype the URL.. my bad !


----------



## Coach Lover Too

celebwrek said:


> Sorry for the inconvenience.. I mistype the URL.. my bad !



Well while you're here, whadda you think about CJ's latest pics??


----------



## celebwrek

Coach Lover Too said:


> Well while you're here, whadda you think about CJ's latest pics??


Well  that is easy as eating a pie.  CJ must get herself a makeup crew, isn't it? 
No offense ! but your face seems to be a wreck CJ


----------



## Coach Lover Too

celebwrek said:


> Well  that is easy as eating a pie.  CJ must get herself a makeup crew, isn't it?
> No offense ! but your face seems to be a wreck CJ



Without a doubt!


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Luvbolide said:


> I actually didn't think the outfit was bad - especially compared to some of what she's been wearing of late.  But the face...OMG...



Yeah, I thought the outfit was cute. There is no hope for her face.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I guess her and Rhonda are still besties.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Did y'all know there was going to be a season 2 of *I Am Cait*??


----------



## AEGIS

I was on transgendered man's page...he had two kids when he was a woman...and is now married to a woman...it was interesting


----------



## Coach Lover Too

And those of you who think Caitlyn doesn&#8217;t care about the show, uh, she was pissed   off because as her older sons predicted, the show would turn in to a   circus and refused to participate and Caitlyn was pissed. Yeah, of all   things to worry about when you allegedly announce to your family for the   first time you are trans-gendering.. I just can&#8217;t these Jokers.

http://www.realitytvscandals.com/20...i-am-cait-to-announce-if-he-got-a-sex-change/


----------



## chowlover2

mrsinsyder said:


> At what point does this become body dysmorphic disorder?
> 
> View attachment 3161543
> 
> 
> View attachment 3161544
> 
> 
> View attachment 3161545
> 
> 
> View attachment 3161546




At least she's not wearing a miniskirt!


----------



## Jayne1

Here are more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ian-family-support-Khloe-Lamar-s-bedside.html


----------



## Jayne1

Hair is getting long.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ian-family-support-Khloe-Lamar-s-bedside.html


----------



## bag-princess

Tivo said:


> Bruce looks absolutely ridiculous.





ICAM!!  the looks on those people's faces in the background says it all!


----------



## dooneybaby

bag-princess said:


> ICAM!!  the looks on those people's faces in the background says it all!


So sick of Caitlyn!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

These pics look better than those others. Good lerd.


----------



## lanasyogamama

Coach Lover Too said:


> These pics look better than those others. Good lerd.



She managed to close her mouth.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Same article has this pic and I think makeup and hair maybe some slight less invasive procedures with this face, rather than rebuilding with the feminization surgery, she would look better
Jmo





Daily mail

I think there is a possibility of surgical addiction that has nothing to do with being transgender.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

lanasyogamama said:


> She managed to close her mouth.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Same article has this pic and I think makeup and hair maybe some slight less invasive procedures with this face, rather than rebuilding with the feminization surgery, she would look better
> Jmo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily mail
> 
> I think there is a possibility of surgical addiction that has nothing to do with being transgender.



Funny how both of them have different faces now.

Lamar wakes up and must wonder who everyone is.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> Funny how both of them have different faces now.
> 
> Lamar wakes up and must wonder who everyone is.



Oh sh*t!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Jayne1 said:


> Funny how both of them have different faces now.
> 
> Lamar wakes up and must wonder who everyone is.





And when was the last time he saw Kylie? Irl


----------



## White Orchid

Jayne1 said:


> Hair is getting long.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ian-family-support-Khloe-Lamar-s-bedside.html


Jayne, you do realise that ain't his hair right?  Men's hair doesn't get thicker as they age lol.


----------



## White Orchid

Jayne1 said:


> Funny how both of them have different faces now.
> 
> Lamar wakes up and must wonder who everyone is.



That'd be enough to send the poor guy into a cardiac arrest!


----------



## bag-princess

Jayne1 said:


> Funny how both of them have different faces now.
> 
> Lamar wakes up and must wonder who everyone is.






i feel so bad for doing it but


----------



## Encore Hermes

* coughs _hair transplant_.  Google Tom Arnold hair Cait


----------



## Jayne1

White Orchid said:


> Jayne, you do realise that ain't his hair right?  Men's hair doesn't get thicker as they age lol.



Yes, I just needed a caption.  I really wanted people to look at the picture.


----------



## White Orchid

Jayne1 said:


> Yes, I just needed a caption.  I really wanted people to look at the picture.



Errr...not all of want to look at his picture :ninja:


----------



## Jujuma

You know this is what it is now. It's new for everybody and for Caitlyn who is obviously having issues with self identification and plastic surgery, among other things. What I worry about and really see this becoming is a situation very much like Michael Jackson. Very very sad.


----------



## ByeKitty

White Orchid said:


> Jayne, you do realise that ain't his hair right?  Men's hair doesn't get thicker as they age lol.



Not sure if this effect is also there under hormone treatment... I think not, balding is has to do with testosterone levels. That's definitely not all her natural hair though.


----------



## chowlover2

Maybe she is supporting Kylie and wearing some of her hair extensions?


----------



## ChanelMommy

Coach Lover Too said:


> It seems as though the whole family has lost it.



this


----------



## Bentley1

Jayne1 said:


> Funny how both of them have different faces now.
> 
> 
> 
> Lamar wakes up and must wonder who everyone is.




Lmaooooo [emoji23]#truth


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner showed she's certainly one of the Kardashian girls on Wednesday.

The 65-year-old reality TV star displayed her cleavage in a plunging black bandage dress as she arrived at her stepdaughter Kim Kardashian's 35th birthday bash in Thousand Oaks, California.

The I Am Cait star also appeared to have a bit of a hairpiece malfunction when she put her head down.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...hian-s-35th-birthday-party.html#ixzz3pGYqopgg


----------



## sdkitty

just goes to show what a farce those Vanity Fair pics were.  I'm sure she enjoyed looking at those photos but reality is a lot different. Sad.


----------



## AEGIS

oh Bruce is wearing a half wig


----------



## Encore Hermes

the hair the boobs the dress. 






Lemonade, have an an answer about the hair


----------



## Katel

and, I may be wrong...but I do believe I spy a butt pad....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

(please let it be photo schlepped)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oh jeez.


----------



## tweegy

She looks like a party girl stuck in 2005...


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*Hollywood Reporter* &#8207;@*THR*  4m4 minutes ago
'I Am Cait' Renewed for Second Season at E! http://thr.cm/y2TFNt


----------



## skarsbabe

tweegy said:


> She looks like a party girl stuck in 2005...



maybe she and Lohan can be BFF!


----------



## gillianna

And their personal apps Splash news took the last photos.  PMK must be mad at Caitlyn because it is major photo shop fail.


----------



## chowlover2

sdkitty said:


> just goes to show what a farce those Vanity Fair pics were.  I'm sure she enjoyed looking at those photos but reality is a lot different. Sad.




Truth!


----------



## shiny_things

Lets go back to when KUWTK first started. Could any of us said:

- Bruce would now be Caitlyn.
- Kim would have a whirlwind marriage and divorce and now be married to a man that loves himself and Riccardo more than her and they'd have a directionally named child.
- Kourtney would end up with 3 kids by an addict.
- Khloe would have a whirlwind marriage and get nearly divorced and suddenly married again after the love of her life goes into a coma.
- Kris would get divorced and decide she needs to be the 4th Kardashian sister and so gets herself a certain....ahem...type of boyfriend.
- Kendall ends up a runway model.
- Kylie ends up a sad, washed up example of terrible parenting, dating a borderline child abuser.
- And Rob well....erm....what does he do again?

This ish writes itself. Put that storyline anywhere else and you'd have yourself a soap opera.....


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> *Hollywood Reporter* &#8207;@*THR*  4m4 minutes ago
> 'I Am Cait' Renewed for Second Season at E! http://thr.cm/y2TFNt



Cause she didn't cry talk about the wonders of makeup enough in season 1?? She really needs another season?


----------



## shiny_things

tweegy said:


> Cause she didn't cry talk about the wonders of makeup enough in season 1?? She really needs another season?



I can't help but wonder if they have played it safe and given her another Season so as not to seem Transphobic, because if they cancel the show because it was boring, self indulgent and did nothing for the Trans community (all of those are true), you'll get people saying it's because they are Transphobic.

I mean the viewing figures past the first 2 or so episodes couldn't have been good, right?


----------



## Encore Hermes

So are they going to bringback the same BFFs or hire a new crew?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Cause she didn't cry talk about the wonders of makeup enough in season 1?? She really needs another season?


I wonder if she'll have the same Rent-A-Friends on the new season??


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> So are they going to bringback the same BFFs or hire a new crew?



OOps, that's just what I was wondering! Didn't see your post!


----------



## guccimamma

tweegy said:


> She looks like a party girl stuck in 2005...



a 65 year-old party girl. wooh hoo!


----------



## berrydiva

What'd happening here or should I say hair?  Just what is with the bandage dress? Just what....

I'm not mad at still crusing in the GT3 RS though.


----------



## VickyB

Coach Lover Too said:


> *Hollywood Reporter* &#8207;@*THR*  4m4 minutes ago
> 'I Am Cait' Renewed for Second Season at E! http://thr.cm/y2TFNt



I cannot believe it. Also, can anybody explain to me what type of a hair piece she is wearing? I thought she had full blown extensions.


----------



## sdkitty

guccimamma said:


> a 65 year-old party girl. wooh hoo!


more like a 65-year-old transvestite


----------



## Jayne1

Katel said:


> and, I may be wrong...but I do believe I spy a butt pad....
> 
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> 
> (please let it be photo schlepped)



Looks like some kind of enhancement because she had nothing on the show.

She must be so uncomfortable, with the hair pieces, heels, tight clothes, tucking (?) and butt enhanced spanx, or whatever it is.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Encore Hermes said:


> So are they going to bringback the same BFFs or hire a new crew?







Coach Lover Too said:


> I wonder if she'll have the same Rent-A-Friends on the new season??




Valid questions. 

I think they'll try damage-control this time.


----------



## Chloe_chick999

VickyB said:


> I cannot believe it. Also, can anybody explain to me what type of a hair piece she is wearing? I thought she had full blown extensions.



It looks like the Daisy Fuentes hairpiece that I see on late night infomercials! Lol


----------



## chowlover2

The ratings weren't even good for the show, E! Is really desperate for programming!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Chloe_chick999 said:


> It looks like the Daisy Fuentes hairpiece that I see on late night infomercials! Lol





We get that stupid commercial here in Oz at obscene times of the morning. And it is TERRIBLE


----------



## Chloe_chick999

FreeSpirit71 said:


> We get that stupid commercial here in Oz at obscene times of the morning. And it is TERRIBLE



Lol, do you? It's so cheesy! I see the thin band in Caitlyns hair and it looks the same.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Chloe_chick999 said:


> Lol, do you? It's so cheesy! I see the thin band in Caitlyns hair and it looks the same.



Yup. It does


----------



## Sasha2012

She has inspired women all over the world with her sophisticated sense of style.

But the Duchess Of Cambridge appears to have a new devout follower in the form of transgender reality star Caitlyn Jenner. 

The 65-year-old was spotted on Wednesday night wearing a dress that looked exactly the same as the Issa London creation Kate Middleton wore when she announced her engagement to Prince William in 2010.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ddleton-s-engagement-dress.html#ixzz3pMmvDLmi


----------



## Encore Hermes

Looks like Helen's wine worked


----------



## Sasha2012

She was given her own reality show this summer, which had only lukewarm ratings.

But Caitlyn Jenner has still been handed another season of I Am Cait by E!, it was announced on Thursday. The 65-year-old Keeping Up With The Kardashians vet - who transitioned from Bruce Jenner earlier this year - tweeted, 'I'm looking forward to continuing the conversation' and added the hashtag #iamcait.

Later that day, the star stepped out in Beverly Hills wearing all white. The beauty gave her stilettos a day off as she opted for kitten heels instead.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...it-steps-news-Cait-renewed.html#ixzz3pMqJrRxI


----------



## wantitneedit

Encore Hermes said:


> Looks like Helen's wine worked



EH - you give me life!!!!


----------



## lizmil

The "beauty"?  If that's beautiful..?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Encore Hermes said:


> Looks like Helen's wine worked


----------



## dangerouscurves

Encore Hermes said:


> Looks like Helen's wine worked




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## White Orchid

I can see something in those white jeans that I never want to visualise ever again :ninja:


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

White Orchid said:


> I can see something in those white jeans that I never want to visualise ever again :ninja:



The tucking seems to be working quite well for him...


----------



## White Orchid

Babydoll Chanel said:


> The tucking seems to be working quite well for him...



Nup, cos I can see something.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

White Orchid said:


> Nup, cos I can see something.



I see a little turtle's head too!


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> I see a little turtle's head too!



My morning laugh!

But do we know for sure Cait hasn't changed all that?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Jayne1 said:


> My morning laugh!
> 
> But do we know for sure Cait hasn't changed all that?



Pretty darn sure!!


----------



## guccimamma

i still think she has lost her mind.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

^^ I feel bad for her. She seems like a deeply unhappy and unfulfilled person. 

That navy dress looks nice on her.


----------



## AEGIS

well the navy dress is prety


----------



## chowlover2

It's pretty amazing how much she still looks like Bruce with all the plastic surgery she has had. 

I read somewhere Glamour magazine is naming her woman of the year. SMH! Of all the women out there who have accomplished something, Cait is not one of them.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

chowlover2 said:


> it's pretty amazing how much she still looks like bruce with all the plastic surgery she has had.
> 
> I read somewhere glamour magazine is naming her woman of the year. Smh! Of all the women out there who have accomplished something, cait is not one of them.


+1,000


----------



## ChanelMommy

chowlover2 said:


> It's pretty amazing how much she still looks like Bruce with all the plastic surgery she has had.
> 
> I read somewhere Glamour magazine is naming her woman of the year. SMH! Of all the women out there who have accomplished something, Cait is not one of them.



I read that somewhere today too.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> I see a little turtle's head too!




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## manpursefan

Ugh who's watching her show? No need for a second season.


----------



## uhpharm01

manpursefan said:


> Ugh who's watching her show? No need for a second season.



Right


----------



## sdkitty

chowlover2 said:


> It's pretty amazing how much she still looks like Bruce with all the plastic surgery she has had.
> 
> I read somewhere Glamour magazine is naming her woman of the year. SMH! Of all the women out there who have accomplished something, Cait is not one of them.


really


----------



## DC-Cutie

Honestly, I think she will always look like Bruce. No amount of good surgery will change that


----------



## DC-Cutie

White Orchid said:


> I can see something in those white jeans that I never want to visualise ever again :ninja:



Needs to work on the art of tucking


----------



## Jayne1

Why wear such tight pants with a crotch in full view, if people's eyes will go straight there.

It's a difficult fit for many women, with camel toe, etc she has no need to wear pants like this!


----------



## gracekelly

Babydoll Chanel said:


> The tucking seems to be working quite well for him...



Nope.  The little fella is poking his head out.


----------



## gracekelly

sdkitty said:


> just goes to show what a farce those Vanity Fair pics were.  I'm sure she enjoyed looking at those photos but reality is a lot different. Sad.



Yes, and when I wrote that this would happen,  I was screamed at on that thread.  People that are fame wh*res can not help themselves, and are willing to expose themselves.  It is an addiction. I think she was like this before she ever met up with the K family. Chicken/egg?

Fully expecting to see fat injections to the buttocks to complete the transformation into Kim K.


----------



## White Orchid

Wonderful.

No, like really.  Cos up until this point, I looked at turtles rather fondly.  Never again.  Like.  Ever.



Coach Lover Too said:


> I see a little turtle's head too!


----------



## dangerouscurves

White Orchid said:


> Wonderful.
> 
> 
> 
> No, like really.  Cos up until this point, I looked at turtles rather fondly.  Never again.  Like.  Ever.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

White Orchid said:


> Wonderful.
> 
> No, like really.  Cos up until this point, I looked at turtles rather fondly.  Never again.  Like.  Ever.



So sorry!


----------



## Encore Hermes

This pic is ok right? You know what I mean






It is this pic right? As though something popped, didn't hold so to speak. Even she is looking down. 










Needs more _______________________________________^


----------



## Encore Hermes

And it seems Caitlyn Jenner's luck with cars is yet to improve after her white SUV appeared severely damaged as she brought it into a body shop in Woodland Hills, California, on Thursday.
It's believed one of the 65-year-old reality star's assistant was responsible for the crash, as she hit a deer while out running errands, according to TMZ.









Daily mail

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...rely-damaged-knocking-deer.html#ixzz3pWn2y9IT


----------



## White Orchid

Did I ask to see it again?

Did I?  Well...did I?   




Encore Hermes said:


> This pic is ok right? You know what I mean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is this pic right? As though something popped, didn't hold so to speak. Even she is looking down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5e/c0/eb/5ec0ebaf5a94a378c97a050f2918ccb8.jpg
> Needs more _______________________________________^


----------



## tweegy

&#128577; I don't see it....

And I'm very grateful....


----------



## pukasonqo

germaine greer for the guardian


sorry, got it through the guardian app so i couldn't find the link (i am useless when on my ipad)


----------



## White Orchid

Can all the young 'uns here please refrain from asking who Ms Greer is?  Kthnxbye.


----------



## Encore Hermes

pukasonqo said:


> germaine greer for the guardian
> View attachment 3167693
> 
> sorry, got it through the guardian app so i couldn't find the link (i am useless when on my ipad)



Here ya go doll

http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...imelight-of-female-kardashians-germaine-greer


----------



## Encore Hermes

tweegy said:


> &#55357;&#56897; I don't see it....
> 
> And I'm very grateful....



 look away White Orchid.....look away
You need a wee bit of  imagination


----------



## tweegy

Encore Hermes said:


> look away White Orchid.....look away
> You need a wee bit of  imagination
> 
> 
> dogstardaily.com/files/styles/medium/public/images/bio/dog_turtle_ninja_hidden_karen_wild_thumbnail.jpg?itok=eBskd5Zb




&#128371; <~~ and that's where I'll be ....


----------



## pukasonqo

Encore Hermes said:


> Here ya go doll
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...imelight-of-female-kardashians-germaine-greer




thank you!!! [emoji253]


----------



## Jikena

Encore Hermes said:


> Here ya go doll
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...imelight-of-female-kardashians-germaine-greer



"She also refused to back down from her position that transgender women,  who have begun life as men before undergoing surgery and hormone  treatment to become women, are not women, saying they do not look  like, sound like or behave like women."

K I'm not reading further.


----------



## White Orchid

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!  



Encore Hermes said:


> look away White Orchid.....look away
> You need a wee bit of  imagination
> 
> 
> dogstardaily.com/files/styles/medium/public/images/bio/dog_turtle_ninja_hidden_karen_wild_thumbnail.jpg?itok=eBskd5Zb


----------



## chowlover2

Encore Hermes said:


> And it seems Caitlyn Jenner's luck with cars is yet to improve after her white SUV appeared severely damaged as she brought it into a body shop in Woodland Hills, California, on Thursday.
> 
> It's believed one of the 65-year-old reality star's assistant was responsible for the crash, as she hit a deer while out running errands, according to TMZ.
> 
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/24/10/2DB8C72300000578-0-image-a-44_1445677275597.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/24/10/2DB8C73300000578-0-image-a-45_1445677284185.jpg
> 
> Daily mail
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...rely-damaged-knocking-deer.html#ixzz3pWn2y9IT




There are deer in Malibu?


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> germaine greer for the guardian
> View attachment 3167693
> 
> sorry, got it through the guardian app so i couldn't find the link (i am useless when on my ipad)




I think Germaine Greer is right!


----------



## starsandbucks

chowlover2 said:


> There are deer in Malibu?


Yup. I drove by the Pepperdine campus in Malibu the other day and there was a whole family grazing on the grass. I lived up in Topanga for a few years (adjacent to Malibu) and there are tons of deer up there. You have to be really careful for deer and coyote!


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> This pic is ok right? You know what I mean



Lots of pap strolls/coffee runs.  What's going on. Desperate for a pap fix?


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jikena said:


> "She also refused to back down from her position that transgender women,  who have begun life as men before undergoing surgery and hormone  treatment to become women, are not women, saying they do not look  like, sound like or behave like women."
> 
> K I'm not reading further.




Yeah, she's sexist, for a woman. And she's generalizing. Treechada Pecharat looks, behave and sounds more 'woman' than her.


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> And it seems Caitlyn Jenner's luck with cars is yet to improve after her white SUV appeared severely damaged as she brought it into a body shop in Woodland Hills, California, on Thursday.
> It's believed one of the 65-year-old reality star's assistant was responsible for the crash, as she hit a deer while out running errands, according to TMZ.




Why does she need an assistant? What does she do that requires this?  

A maid, sure. I doubt she cleans.  A cook, yes, she can't cook. A personal makeup artist/hairstylist yes, we've seen she wants a full face of makeup and hair styled for her coffee runs.  Interior decorator?  Yup, that was done already. But why an assistant to run errands?


----------



## shiny_things

Germaine Greer can take a seat. She is militant in her feminism so much so she is sexist to men, not to mention having homophobic views.


----------



## dangerouscurves

^Like you want to have the same right as the men in every possible way but you refuse to acknowledge male-born transsexual women who identify themselves as women. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Birdonce

Jikena said:


> "She also refused to back down from her position that transgender women,  who have begun life as men before undergoing surgery and hormone  treatment to become women, are not women, saying they do not look  like, sound like or behave like women."
> 
> K I'm not reading further.




Germaine Greer is so incredibly insulting.


----------



## AEGIS

I don't think I consider trans women the same as biological women.  They're trans women to me.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

She (Greer) was set to speak at a university in the UK and the students petitioned to cancel her talk. I think the university is going to go ahead with the talk anyway.


----------



## Jayne1

pukasonqo said:


> germaine greer for the guardian
> View attachment 3167693
> 
> sorry, got it through the guardian app so i couldn't find the link (i am useless when on my ipad)



Germaine Greer may be wrong about a lot of things but some things sound just right:

_It seems to me that what was going on there was that he/she wanted the limelight that the other, female, members of the family were enjoying and has conquered it, just like that, she added, snapping her fingers._


----------



## shiny_things

AEGIS said:


> I don't think I consider trans women the same as biological women.  They're trans women to me.



Genetically and to an extent, anatomically, no, they never will be. BUT being a woman is more than just your biology, it's the 'essence' so to speak and that trans women can and do have just as much as women who were born female. Her point was trans women are not women, ever.


----------



## QueenLouis

shiny_things said:


> Genetically and to an extent, anatomically, no, they never will be. BUT being a woman is more than just your biology, it's the 'essence' so to speak and that trans women can and do have just as much as women who were born female. Her point was trans women are not women, ever.




Says who? I'm a born/biological woman and I say that IS all that defines me as a woman. Everything else is just *me*, and my sex/gender is irrelevant to my life (other than the fact that I have to get female health screenings because of my female body parts, and have to deal with a menstrual cycle.)


----------



## dangerouscurves

QueenLouis said:


> Says who? I'm a born/biological woman and I say that IS all that defines me as a woman. Everything else is just *me*, and my sex/gender is irrelevant to my life (other than the fact that I have to get female health screenings because of my female body parts, and have to deal with a menstrual cycle.)




We've come full circle again with this convo. The thing is, YOU are lucky to be born as a woman physically and mentally. For transsexual women, being a woman is more than just having a vagina. As a woman genetically and physically, we take our vaginas for granted.


----------



## QueenLouis

dangerouscurves said:


> We've come full circle again with this convo. The thing is, YOU are lucky to be born as a woman physically and mentally. For transsexual women, being a woman is more than just having a vagina. As a woman genetically and physically, we take our vaginas for granted.




You've missed my point. I'm saying I don't *feel* gender *mentally* at all. I just observe it as a physical characteristic the same as my skin color or eye color. I recognize that I have brown eyes. I don't *feel* like I have brown eyes.

The previous poster claimed there's an "essence" to being female. I'm saying there isn't. It's just a physical characteristic I was born with.


----------



## dangerouscurves

QueenLouis said:


> You've missed my point. I'm saying I don't *feel* gender *mentally* at all. I just observe it as a physical characteristic the same as my skin color or eye color. I recognize that I have brown eyes. I don't *feel* like I have brown eyes.
> 
> The previous poster claimed there's an "essence" to being female. I'm saying there isn't. It's just a physical characteristic I was born with.




I see your point. 

Then I guess being a woman from one person to the other is different. I've seen (my self is included) that some women really enjoy being and feel like a woman. When I see my self in the mirror, I can't imagine nor wish to be other than a woman.

But then again as I've said, women take their vaginas for granted.


----------



## V0N1B2

dangerouscurves said:


> ....women take their vaginas for granted.


What does this even mean? Like I'll miss it when it's gone? Is it going somewhere? I don't appreciate all the hard work it does? 

Maybe we should start a telethon for our vaginas.
Tweegy, can you come up with a slogan for us? Get some shirts made up or something?


----------



## Staci_W

Anyone else remember that episode of Sex in the City where Charlotte's vagina was depressed. I wonder if it was because she was taking it for granted.


----------



## dangerouscurves

V0N1B2 said:


> What does this even mean? Like I'll miss it when it's gone? Is it going somewhere? I don't appreciate all the hard work it does?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we should start a telethon for our vaginas.
> 
> Tweegy, can you come up with a slogan for us? Get some shirts made up or something?




I meant that the are people who really wish they had one (shrugs).


----------



## DC-Cutie

V0N1B2 said:


> What does this even mean? Like I'll miss it when it's gone? Is it going somewhere? I don't appreciate all the hard work it does?
> 
> Maybe we should start a telethon for our vaginas.
> Tweegy, can you come up with a slogan for us? Get some shirts made up or something?



LOL...

Bring on national appreciate your vagina day


----------



## Encore Hermes

Vagina appreciation Sunday?


----------



## White Orchid

Deez bishes gon cray cray :greengrin:


----------



## dangerouscurves

Would you understand if I say that men use penis as their symbol of existence and power? Cis men don't take their penises for granted as women do. Lol. Ok. I start to sound ridiculous but I hope some of you guys understand what I'm sayin'.


----------



## Encore Hermes

No No,,,,,,,,no penis envy today, it is all about the vag.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Encore Hermes said:


> No No,,,,,,,,no penis envy today, it is all about the vag.




[emoji12][emoji12][emoji12]


----------



## White Orchid

Like I was watching this Sir David Attenborough doco the other night and I saw this cute lil' turtle and it just wasn't the same anymore.  Damn you Caitlin!  Damn you bishes!


----------



## Encore Hermes

dangerouscurves said:


> [emoji12][emoji12][emoji12]


----------



## shiny_things

QueenLouis said:


> Says who? I'm a born/biological woman and I say that IS all that defines me as a woman. Everything else is just *me*, and my sex/gender is irrelevant to my life (other than the fact that I have to get female health screenings because of my female body parts, and have to deal with a menstrual cycle.)



OK, but let's say you look in the mirror, feeling how you do and instead you see a man. You'd certainly feel like a woman then. The point is you're so used to feeling like a woman that you don't notice it. For a transgender woman, they FEEL biologically like a woman, they may know they have a penis but that's not what they feel they should have. It's called dysphoria, the distress when your body doesn't match what you feel it should be.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I have a transgender friend and she says 'I'll never be a full woman and don't understand my fellow trans that try to compare themselves to natural born women'


----------



## AEGIS

shiny_things said:


> Genetically and to an extent, anatomically, no, they never will be. BUT being a woman is more than just your biology, it's the 'essence' so to speak and that trans women can and do have just as much as women who were born female. Her point was trans women are not women, ever.



We can agree to disagree. To me biologics-- while may not be 100% of what it means to be a woman, it is a large portion of it which is why trans women take hormones so that their bodies mimic hormones that women naturally produce and to look womanly. Of course there are always people who are intersex and have extra chromosomes etc. who fall outside of traditional XY and XX but biology is integral to being a woman. It's why questions of how trans women can even compete in sports is complex because despite the exterior presentation and spiritual/emotional connection they have to womanhood, genetically they are differennt.


----------



## AEGIS

Staci_W said:


> Anyone else remember that episode of Sex in the City where Charlotte's vagina was depressed. I wonder if it was because she was taking it for granted.





lmao omg I do.  and take my vagina for granted? i have LITERALLY read it all. is this the opposite of penis envy?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

DC-Cutie said:


> I have a transgender friend and she says 'I'll never be a full woman and don't understand my fellow trans that try to compare themselves to natural born women'



That's cool DC, but that's just _one_ person's experience of being trans. I think that's what is missing from this conversation (I'm not just addressing your comment btw) - it's an individual thing for each person going through it.

I don't think Caitlyn looks very feminine, but then what am I comparing it to - my own version of femininity and what that is. You can't help but see things through your own eyes and experiences. 

I think it must be very confusing to be born in one body, conform to what that means, all the while feeling you are something else, and knowing the prejudice out there.

I don't envy anyone this issue.

*Note:* Germaine Greer was a pioneer - now she's just an a$$. Britain can have her.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I realize that it is ONE persons feelings.  My comment wasn't a general sweeping sentiment. 

I don't think she looks feminine. Especially sans Photoshopping and blur tools, out in the natural habitat. She looks like Bruce, with boobs and kitten heels 



FreeSpirit71 said:


> That's cool DC, but that's just _one_ person's experience of being trans. I think that's what is missing from this conversation (I'm not just addressing your comment btw) - it's an individual thing for each person going through it.
> 
> I don't think Caitlyn looks very feminine, but then what am I comparing it to - my own version of femininity and what that is. You can't help but see things through your own eyes and experiences.
> 
> I think it must be very confusing to be born in one body, conform to what that means, all the while feeling you are something else, and knowing the prejudice out there.
> 
> I don't envy anyone this issue.
> 
> *Note:* Germaine Greer was a pioneer - now she's just an a$$. Britain can have her.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

White Orchid said:


> Like I was watching this Sir David Attenborough doco the other night and I saw this cute *lil' turtle* and it just wasn't the same anymore.  Damn you Caitlin!  Damn you bishes!



Oh jeez. Another turtle head.


----------



## sdkitty

shiny_things said:


> OK, but let's say you look in the mirror, feeling how you do and instead you see a man. You'd certainly feel like a woman then. The point is you're so used to feeling like a woman that you don't notice it. For a transgender woman, they FEEL biologically like a woman, they may know they have a penis but that's not what they feel they should have. It's called dysphoria, the distress when your body doesn't match what you feel it should be.


and who really knows whether a trans person really truly feels they are the wrong gender as compared to a man wishing he had been a girl and wanting to dress in girl's clothing?

I'm far from expert on this but it seems to me there's a big difference between a child who expresses from a very early age they are the wrong gender and gets hormones to change compared to a mature man who tries to change into a woman.  And there are boys/men who are very feminine looking who probably can make that change more easily or more convincingly--Compared to Bruce Jenner, who looked like a man and still does.
I'm not inside Caitlyn's head and I don't even know if she truly knows the answers to these questions.  Is she really feeling like a woman or just wishing she was one?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

<<<<Broken record...CJ can have ALL the surgery her heart desires but she cannot change her DNA.

I still think there's a mental issue going on with her that has NOTHING to do with her being transgender. Whoever said _Body dysmorphic_ disorder nailed it. I don't think she's going to be happy with herself no matter what she does.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

DC-Cutie said:


> I realize that it is ONE persons feelings.  My comment wasn't a general sweeping sentiment.
> *
> I don't think she looks feminine. Especially sans Photoshopping and blur tools, out in the natural habitat. She looks like Bruce, with boobs and kitten heels*



Completely agree with you. The more she has done, the more obvious it seems. It's starting to have the opposite effect.


----------



## SpeedyJC

dangerouscurves said:


> We've come full circle again with this convo. The thing is, YOU are lucky to be born as a woman physically and mentally. For transsexual women, being a woman is more than just having a vagina. *As a woman genetically and physically, we take our vaginas for granted*.



Wow this has been eye opening to me. I have realized that I have been taking my vagina for granted my entire life. I think I am going to put on some pink pj's, make myself a hot fudge sundae and rent Pretty Woman; a vagina appreciation night.


----------



## solange

dangerouscurves said:


> But then again as I've said, women take their vaginas for granted.



I thought Jenner didn't have/want one of those.


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> I don't think she looks feminine. Especially sans Photoshopping and blur tools, out in the natural habitat. She looks like Bruce,* with boobs and kitten heels*



The kitten heels comment made me giggle.


----------



## AEGIS

SpeedyJC said:


> Wow this has been eye opening to me. I have realized that I have been taking my vagina for granted my entire life. I think I am going to put on some pink pj's, make myself a hot fudge sundae and rent Pretty Woman; a vagina appreciation night.



Do you have to douche to appreciate your vagina? Maybe use pads instead of tampons bc your vagina may not want foreign objects in it? Maybe no waxing bc she doesn't want to be annoyed every 2-4 weeks.


----------



## solange

Coach Lover Too said:


> <<<<Broken record...CJ can have ALL the surgery her heart desires but she cannot change her DNA.
> 
> I still think there's a mental issue going on with her that has NOTHING to do with her being transgender. Whoever said _Body dysmorphic_ disorder nailed it. I don't think she's going to be happy with herself no matter what she does.





I blame the b@$+@79ization of English vocabulary for muddling up this issue.  Gender: social construct of roles, rules, symbols, and expectations, in some societies signed to particular sexes but actually sexless. Sex: biological manifestation of genetic inheritance. Now, "gender" has gone the way of the Inuit word for "snow". One word, so many meanings.


----------



## Staci_W

My husband appreciates my vagina enough for the both of us.


----------



## AEGIS

Staci_W said:


> My husband appreciates my vagina enough for the both of us.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Being articulate in writing is not my best trait. All I'm saying is, vaginas are there on cis women just like any other part of your body and then for some people, especially transsexual women, the lack of a vagina is the source of their unhappines, not to mention the source of danger.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Ugh the term cis woman... Over it!


----------



## White Orchid

Sorry, but what is cis?


----------



## Docjeun

V0N1B2 said:


> What does this even mean? Like I'll miss it when it's gone? Is it going somewhere? I don't appreciate all the hard work it does?
> 
> Maybe we should start a telethon for our vaginas.
> Tweegy, can you come up with a slogan for us? Get some shirts made up or something?



I thought there was something wrong with me that I couldn't figure out what it means either.


----------



## Docjeun

You ALL are crazy!!  :lolots:


----------



## qudz104

DC-Cutie said:


> Ugh the term cis woman... Over it!




Yes! Why theheck is the term cis woman even present?!?!? Should be women, and trans women that's it.


----------



## Oryx816

qudz104 said:


> Yes! Why theheck is the term cis woman even present?!?!? Should be women, and trans women that's it.




+1.


----------



## dangerouscurves

I had to use the term cis to differentiate natural-born women to post-op (transsexual) women.


----------



## SpeedyJC

White Orchid said:


> Sorry, but what is cis?


 
CIS woman


----------



## bag-princess

Jayne1 said:


> Germaine Greer may be wrong about a lot of things but some things sound just right:
> 
> _It seems to me that what was going on there was that he/she wanted the limelight that the other, female, members of the family were enjoying and has conquered it, just like that, she added, snapping her fingers._





bloop!


----------



## tweegy

V0N1B2 said:


> What does this even mean? Like I'll miss it when it's gone? Is it going somewhere? I don't appreciate all the hard work it does?
> 
> Maybe we should start a telethon for our vaginas.
> Tweegy, can you come up with a slogan for us? Get some shirts made up or something?




I'm not quite sure whats happening in the last few pages lol... Good going White Orchid. If you'd just kept your tiny turtle spotting to yourself this wouldnt be happening. Side note, I have my glasses on - still can't see it Thank the Lord!

Maybe have a special day... Love your cooter day.. Or Your cooter has feels too..
I would suggest something else similar but don't quite feel like being pulled up today lol


----------



## michie

I find the whole "cis" term totally offensive. Sorry. Is it frowned upon to say "trans" to differentiate? Just seems a$$-backwards to label the one with the "original parts", but that's the society we live in, so I kinda get it.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I say use whatever term you're comfortable with. Someone, somewhere is ALWAYS going to be offended about something. Do what makes YOU happy.
This politically correct crap is beyond ridiculous.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> I say use whatever term you're comfortable with. Someone, somewhere is ALWAYS going to be offended about something. Do what makes YOU happy.
> This politically correct crap is beyond ridiculous.



I have to agree. I can understand out right offensive things. But its become out of hand now. You have to monitor every thing you say and rethink 50 times and you may STILL wind up offending someone.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> I have to agree. I can understand out right offensive things. But its become out of hand now. You have to monitor every thing you say and rethink 50 times and you may STILL wind up offending someone.



Exactly. I would never purposely try to offend someone but I'll be d*mned if I'm gonna walk on egg shells because someone might be super sensitive.


----------



## bag-mania

Coach Lover Too said:


> Exactly. I would never purposely try to offend someone but I'll be d*mned if I'm gonna walk on egg shells because someone might be super sensitive.



Exactly right. Life is too short to worry about every tiny thing. There are women who refuse to identify with the term "women" because (horrors!) it has "men" in it. So instead they spell it "womyn". I consider that to be so ridiculous that I don't give a rat's azz if I offend someone who feels that way.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bag-mania said:


> Exactly right. Life is too short to worry about every tiny thing. There are women who refuse to identify with the term "women" because (horrors!) it has "men" in it. So instead they spell it "womyn". I consider that to be so ridiculous that I don't give a rat's azz if I offend someone who feels that way.


Me and you both girl! (gurl!)


----------



## VickyB

Really? Again with the broken record? Happy Monday!


----------



## shiny_things

sdkitty said:


> and who really knows whether a trans person really truly feels they are the wrong gender as compared to a man wishing he had been a girl and wanting to dress in girl's clothing?
> 
> I'm far from expert on this but it seems to me there's a big difference between a child who expresses from a very early age they are the wrong gender and gets hormones to change compared to a mature man who tries to change into a woman.  And there are boys/men who are very feminine looking who probably can make that change more easily or more convincingly--Compared to Bruce Jenner, who looked like a man and still does.
> I'm not inside Caitlyn's head and I don't even know if she truly knows the answers to these questions.  Is she really feeling like a woman or just wishing she was one?



No one knows that by Caitlyn, so it's pointless speculating either way.

Yes, a trans person feels like they are the wrong gender. Normally since as early as they can remember. Cait may have felt that way and tried to hide it for years, it wouldn't be unusual and it's quite common. Or he may not, again we don't know.


----------



## shiny_things

Staci_W said:


> My husband appreciates my vagina enough for the both of us.



Get it, girl!


----------



## dangerouscurves

bag-mania said:


> Exactly right. Life is too short to worry about every tiny thing. There are women who refuse to identify with the term "women" because (horrors!) it has "men" in it. So instead they spell it "womyn". I consider that to be so ridiculous that I don't give a rat's azz if I offend someone who feels that way.




Ok, this I also find ridiculous.


----------



## twinkle.tink

Tact, empathy & compassion are beyond ridiculous  O.o

I simply do not understand what is so hard about trying to respect another's wishes; especially when it is no cost to one except holding your tongue or self moderating one's speech.


----------



## krissa

michie said:


> I find the whole "cis" term totally offensive. Sorry. Is it frowned upon to say "trans" to differentiate? Just seems a$$-backwards to label the one with the "original parts", but that's the society we live in, so I kinda get it.



I don't understand or agree with it either. I noticed it's only something I've seen in online comments so I hope it stays that way. I would def side eye someone if they referred to me or themselves that way.


----------



## dangerouscurves

krissa said:


> I don't understand or agree with it either. I noticed it's only something I've seen in online comments so I hope it stays that way. I would def side eye someone if they referred to me or themselves that way.




Don't worry, it's only used for medical term as there are natural-born women, pre-op transsexual women, post-op transsexual women, female to male transsexual, hermaphrodites, women born without internal sex organ, etc. No one walks around and say something like 'that cis woman over there is pretty'.


----------



## White Orchid

Oh go on then, blame me  :cry:



tweegy said:


> I'm not quite sure whats happening in the last few pages lol... Good going White Orchid. If you'd just kept your tiny turtle spotting to yourself this wouldnt be happening. Side note, I have my glasses on - still can't see it Thank the Lord!
> 
> Maybe have a special day... Love your cooter day.. Or Your cooter has feels too..
> I would suggest something else similar but don't quite feel like being pulled up today lol


----------



## AEGIS

bag-mania said:


> Exactly right. Life is too short to worry about every tiny thing. There are women who refuse to identify with the term "women" because (horrors!) it has "men" in it. So instead they spell it "womyn". I consider that to be so ridiculous that I don't give a rat's azz if I offend someone who feels that way.



I like seeing woman spelled womyn...i just like the 'y' and think it looks pretty But I don't actually spell it like that anywhere

i wonder who created the term cis-woman....i don't even understand the etymology. i guess ppl are offended by the term biological woman


----------



## AEGIS

dangerouscurves said:


> Don't worry, it's only used for medical term as there are natural-born women, pre-op transsexual women, post-op transsexual women, female to male transsexual, hermaphrodites, women born without internal sex organ, etc. No one walks around and say something like 'that cis woman over there is pretty'.



I must know total douche's who say this on fb lol


----------



## dangerouscurves

AEGIS said:


> I like seeing woman spelled womyn...i just like the 'y' and think it looks pretty But I don't actually spell it like that anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> i wonder who created the term cis-woman....i don't even understand the etymology. i guess ppl are offended by the term biological woman




The thing with using the term biological woman is that it refers to the physical aspect only. So female to male transsexuals who haven't started hormones therapy are still technically biological women, and because you (in general, not you personally) think biological=cis, they refuse the term.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Caitlyn has a birthday tomorrow, wonder how she'll celebrate...


----------



## redney

Babydoll Chanel said:


> Caitlyn has a birthday tomorrow, wonder how she'll celebrate...



With paps in full force, doll.


----------



## Jayne1

dangerouscurves said:


> Don't worry, it's only used for medical term as there are natural-born women, pre-op transsexual women, post-op transsexual women, female to male transsexual, hermaphrodites, women born without internal sex organ, etc. No one walks around and say something like 'that cis woman over there is pretty'.



The trans women on the Cait show were using it all the time. But then, they were in the majority and the cis women were not, so they referred to them as such.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

redney said:


> With paps in full force, doll.



But of course, doll. And the Daily Fail running an article with pap shots from Splash news going on about her 'first birthday as Caitlyn.'


----------



## Sasha2012

Talk about going hell for leather into your special day.

Caitlyn Jenner clearly could not wait to celebrate her first birthday as a women, kicking off celebrations early, and in style, on Tuesday.

The star marked her last day as a 65-year-old at The Villa restaurant in Woodland Hills, California, with daughter Kylie and step daughters Kim and Kourtney Kardashian.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...th-birthday-stylish-family.html#ixzz3ppBPObv0


----------



## chowlover2

I don't know whose face looks worse, Caitlyn or Kylie...


----------



## DC-Cutie

chowlover2 said:


> I don't know whose face looks worse, Caitlyn or Kylie...



Tough call. Both look equally painful,


----------



## White Orchid

Definitely his.  This photo is sad on so many levels though.  As much as I detest the lot of them, the two younger ones, but especially Kylie, never stood a chance with parents like this.  She is what she is because she had no positive role models, so I'll cut her some slack in this respect.  And again it makes me appreciate the Mother I had who always emphasised the importance of the intangible things in life like reading, nurturing your intellect, compassion, self-respect, dignity and so on.



chowlover2 said:


> I don't know whose face looks worse, Caitlyn or Kylie...


----------



## pukasonqo

ok, don't shoot the messenger. leunig is a very smart, thoughtful cartoonist and this is his response to greergate


for those who follow him, he is not homophobic, transgenderphobic but something he is not is afraid of speaking his mind


----------



## AshTx.1

White Orchid said:


> Definitely his.  This photo is sad on so many levels though.  As much as I detest the lot of them, the two younger ones, but especially Kylie, never stood a chance with parents like this.  She is what she is because she had no positive role models, so I'll cut her some slack in this respect.  And again it makes me appreciate the Mother I had who always emphasised the importance of the intangible things in life like reading, nurturing your intellect, compassion, self-respect, dignity and so on.



Yes. I don't know why but Kylie seems likeable to me. She actually seems like a nice girl who grew up too fast with a family who pushed her to it. I feel sorry for her. 

Anyway back to Caitlyn. I actually like the outfit haha.


----------



## Jikena

That shirt's design looks like vomit.


----------



## mindy621_xoxo

AshTx.1 said:


> Yes. I don't know why but Kylie seems likeable to me. She actually seems like a nice girl who grew up too fast with a family who pushed her to it. I feel sorry for her.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway back to Caitlyn. I actually like the outfit haha.




I agree. She just seems so lost. [emoji53] this is the life she knows and was pushed into. It's not really her fault.


----------



## sdkitty

Caitlyn looks better in those leather pants than in a skirt
But she still looks like a man in drag IMO


----------



## Sasha2012

She was spotted getting the early celebrations in as she lunched with Kim Kardashian, Kourtney Kardashian and daughter Kylie Jenner.

And Caitlyn Jenner once again celebrated her upcoming birthday in style. 

The soon-to-be 66-year-old reality star looked fashionable in black velvet as she attended a Logo TV launch party for their web series Beautiful As I want To be in Los Angeles on Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...go-web-series-launch-party.html#ixzz3ptAq4ZGv


----------



## glamourous1098

Caitlyn needs to up her bag game.


----------



## ByeKitty

She looks pretty good there... Good make-up, and that dress is flattering.


----------



## manpursefan

Oh leather pants, good thing her crotch is covered


----------



## Jayne1

The eyebrows are more feminine, or something, these days.


----------



## manpursefan

She needs to fix that chin.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

*People magazine* &#8207;@*people*  9m9 minutes ago
EXCLUSIVE: Caitlyn Jenner must be proud! @*candiscayne* is joining #*TheYoungAndTheRestless* http://peoplem.ag/NaPdAWw


----------



## labelwhore04

^Well i guess the exposure of being one of Cait's "rent-a-friends" is paying off


----------



## chowlover2

Looks like Cait only has friends if she's filming...


----------



## qudz104

chowlover2 said:


> I don't know whose face looks worse, Caitlyn or Kylie...




Definitely his.. I've seen a bunch of no makeup pics of Kylie and it doesn't look so bad and exaggerated as she does when she has makeup on... Yes her lips are too big and all but at the end of the day she can still look relatively normal.


----------



## mrsinsyder

glamourous1098 said:


> Caitlyn needs to up her bag game.


I thought I saw her carrying a Kelly the other day, but yeah, these 'TJ Maxx-final sale' looking clutches need to go.

Borrow one of the hundred raggedy Birkins the rest of them recycle amongst each other.


----------



## Eva1991

chowlover2 said:


> I don't know whose face looks worse, Caitlyn or Kylie...



Unfortunately, Kylie.  She's 18 and looks 35. At least Caitlyn looks her age, not 20 years older.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

chowlover2 said:


> Looks like Cait only has friends if she's filming...



That goes for all the Kardashians, especially Kimbo. She's only friends with the flavor of the season, has a few shopping strolls coincidentally papped and then they're never seen together again. Brittni Gastineau, Larsa Pippen, Ciara, LaLa, etc. Is she even friends with even one of them anymore?


----------



## mcb100

Well, I really like Caitlyn's hair (I know it is not hair that had originally been growing out of her head, I think, but it is still nice hair.) it is very shiny and healthy looking. I like the she opted for a medium brown shade instead of the signature black like the rest of the KK's have sported for so long (minus Khloe going blond only in these past few years, and Kylie putting green & other colors in her hair.).


----------



## Sassys

Babydoll Chanel said:


> That goes for all the Kardashians, especially Kimbo. She's only friends with the flavor of the season, has a few shopping strolls coincidentally papped and then they're never seen together again. Brittni Gastineau, Larsa Pippen, Ciara, LaLa, etc. Is she even friends with even one of them anymore?


 
I am sure they can't tolerate she allows herself to be a beard for Kanye.


----------



## Grace123

So has there been any talk of Caitlyn having "the" surgery at all? Just curious.


----------



## Jayne1

Grace123 said:


> So has there been any talk of Caitlyn having "the" surgery at all? Just curious.



Maybe that's what she offered to get her show renewed. It did have dismal ratings but it is coming back anyway, so she's got to be offering something.


----------



## Grace123

Jayne1 said:


> Maybe that's what she offered to get her show renewed. It did have dismal ratings but it is coming back anyway, so she's got to be offering something.




Well if she's going to keep getting Woman of the Year awards, I think it's only fair. [emoji3]


----------



## Jayne1

grace123 said:


> well if she's going to keep getting woman of the year awards, i think it's only fair. [emoji3]


----------



## mcb100

I don't know why, exactly, but the "Woman of the Year" award just doesn't sit well with me, and it's not because she's a woman now. 
  I like CJ to a certain extent, but I associate "Woman of the Year" award with someone who has done something awesome for the world (I think like how Angelina Jolie travels around the world to help people & has adopted many children, things like that.), and while I like CJ and I more than respect the fact that she is a woman now and has had a difficult journey, I guess I don't think she deserves that award? I know, I know, it's like who am I to say that? Maybe I'm just confused, I don't know? 
   CJ has supported the trans world with her making her announcement public, but I can't help but feel like the things that she has gone through are things that most trans women have gone through. 
  I believe she's had a great and difficult journey, I think she means well and has good intentions for the trans world, I also think she's inspired other trans women by being public about it, but for some odd reason I just don't feel that she deserves to be "Woman Of The Year" just yet, or something????  Anyone else here feel the same way? Maybe I am in the wrong for this opinion though, I don't know.


----------



## dangerouscurves

^Yep! Totally agree with you there. She doesn't deserve it. I think she gets the title only for publicity for the magazine. No one really ready Glamour, yes?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I think it's probably a given to know I'm not in favor of it.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

mcb100 said:


> I don't know why, exactly, but the "Woman of the  Year" award just doesn't sit well with me, and it's not because she's a  woman now.
> I like CJ to a certain extent, but I associate "Woman of the Year"  award with someone who has done something awesome for the world (I think  like how Angelina Jolie travels around the world to help people &  has adopted many children, things like that.), and while I like CJ and I  more than respect the fact that she is a woman now and has had a  difficult journey, I guess I don't think she deserves that award? I  know, I know, it's like who am I to say that? Maybe I'm just confused, I  don't know?
> CJ has supported the trans world with her making her announcement  public, but I can't help but feel like the things that she has gone  through are things that most trans women have gone through.
> I believe she's had a great and difficult journey, I think she means  well and has good intentions for the trans world, I also think she's  inspired other trans women by being public about it, but for some odd  reason I just don't feel that she deserves to be "Woman Of The Year"  just yet, or something????  Anyone else here feel the same way? Maybe I am in the wrong for this opinion though, I don't know.



I agree. I think she's done well at bringing widespread attention to  and increased understanding of the trans community due to her  celebrity, but that's really it. She's not even a trans activist. She does very little except star in a failing reality TV show about her life. I don't fault her for this. I try not to fault her for this. Just because you're transgender doesn't mean you have to devout your time to transgender activism, but I except someone whose winning Woman of the Year to have accomplished something more professionally or philanthropically. Last year it was Laverne Cox, she's a vocal transgender activist and a SAG award winning and Emmy nominated actress on a rather revolutionary hit show. Caitlyn falls flat in comparison.


----------



## chowlover2

All I can say is that at least CJ didn't get the cover, Reese Witherspoon did!


----------



## Sasha2012

She may have celebrated her 66th birthday earlier in the week but Caitlyn Jenner is keen to keep active in her later years.

The Olympic gold medalist couldn't be missed as she sported a brightly-coloured mini skirt and a white polo T-shirt for a round of golf in Los Angeles, California, on Thursday.

Caitlyn, 66, no doubt stood out on the course in the fuchsia number which she teamed with a pair of bright white trainers and a brown leather satchel bag.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...hsia-mini-skirt-round-golf.html#ixzz3q4eeSYSH


----------



## sdkitty

Sasha2012 said:


> She may have celebrated her 66th birthday earlier in the week but Caitlyn Jenner is keen to keep active in her later years.
> 
> The Olympic gold medalist couldn't be missed as she sported a brightly-coloured mini skirt and a white polo T-shirt for a round of golf in Los Angeles, California, on Thursday.
> 
> Caitlyn, 66, no doubt stood out on the course in the fuchsia number which she teamed with a pair of bright white trainers and a brown leather satchel bag.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...hsia-mini-skirt-round-golf.html#ixzz3q4eeSYSH


still looks like a guy
I'm sorry I have to admit I'm having a hard time understand this transformation so late in life


----------



## redney

What's with the duck lips? They seem too thin to be plumped a la Kylie.


----------



## Wildflower22

I don't see how women golf with their hair down like that. It's just all for show with her! She's a serious golfer but I can't take her seriously looking like that.

Edit: I am a golfer which is why I say this. It just bothers me!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Doesn't look like how I picture Glamour's Woman of the Year.


----------



## guccimamma

this is what he always wanted.


----------



## QueenLouis

I thought women had come a long way after all these years. But now they've found a way that Woman of the Year doesn't even go to a woman. *facepalm*

Getting called a transphobe in 3... 2... 1...


----------



## sdkitty

Wildflower22 said:


> I don't see how women golf with their hair down like that. It's just all for show with her! She's a serious golfer but I can't take her seriously looking like that.
> 
> Edit: I am a golfer which is why I say this. It just bothers me!


it's like some of the actresses portraying working women (doctors, etc) on TV with long flowing hair.  Seems more likely they'd have it in a bun or something when they're doing surgery or autopsies

oh wait, Caitlyn is doing things for the cameras too


----------



## Jayne1

sdkitty said:


> it's like some of the actresses portraying working women (doctors, etc) on TV with long flowing hair.  Seems more likely they'd have it in a bun or something when they're doing surgery or autopsies
> 
> oh wait, Caitlyn is doing things for the cameras too



So true. lol


----------



## Eva1991

Sasha2012 said:


> She may have celebrated her 66th birthday earlier in the week but Caitlyn Jenner is keen to keep active in her later years.
> 
> The Olympic gold medalist couldn't be missed as she sported a brightly-coloured mini skirt and a white polo T-shirt for a round of golf in Los Angeles, California, on Thursday.
> 
> Caitlyn, 66, no doubt stood out on the course in the fuchsia number which she teamed with a pair of bright white trainers and a brown leather satchel bag.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...hsia-mini-skirt-round-golf.html#ixzz3q4eeSYSH



Don't like this look on Caitlyn. She's 65, what was she thinking? It's weird how the women in this family can't come to terms with their real age. Kylie is 18 and looks 30 and Caitlyn here is trying to look like a 20 year old.


----------



## JetSetGo!

Just a couple of friendly reminders:

tPF does not allow members to be aggressive/rude/nasty to one another. 

If someone is breaking that rule, please do not engage. 
Simply report and we'll take care of it.


----------



## uhpharm01

sdkitty said:


> still looks like a guy
> I'm sorry I have to admit I'm having a hard time understand this transformation so late in life



Yep


----------



## bag-mania

Eva1991 said:


> Don't like this look on Caitlyn. She's 65, what was she thinking? It's weird how the women in this family can't come to terms with their real age. Kylie is 18 and looks 30 and Caitlyn here is trying to look like a 20 year old.




Since she never had the chance wear clothes like that when she was young, maybe she wants to experience what it is like now. I don't get the impression Caitlyn considers age-appropriateness in choosing her wardrobe.


----------



## pukasonqo

my take? i think that caitlyn is wearing what she likes, not necessarily what looks good on her because after years of being bruce she is now like a kid , a 65 yo kid, let loose in a candy store
she'll develop her own style (or lack of) eventually


----------



## Jayne1

bag-mania said:


> Since she never had the chance wear clothes like that when she was young, maybe she wants to experience what it is like now. *I don't get the impression Caitlyn considers age-appropriateness in choosing her wardrobe*.



True.


----------



## Grace123

Already today, I've seen several Caitlyn costumes. Wonder what the real Caitlyn will wear????


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner was joined by a bearded mystery man at a Jamba Juice in her old stomping ground, Calabasas, on Friday.

If the polo shirt-clad gentleman was her new bodyguard, he was dwarfed by the 66-year-old trans-icon - who stands at 6ft4in in her kitten heels.

Last month, the ESPY Award winner told the Today Show that she was 'kind of open to anything' when it comes to romance after three marriages and six children.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ystery-man-Jamba-Juice-run.html#ixzz3qBBoGRzV


----------



## Eva1991

^ They all seem happy in that picture!


----------



## bag-princess

Eva1991 said:


> ^ They all seem happy in that picture!





look at that smile on kanye!!!


----------



## AEGIS

Eva1991 said:


> ^ They all seem happy in that picture!



except for Klogre in the back


----------



## Florasun

Eva1991 said:


> Don't like this look on Caitlyn. She's 65, what was she thinking? It's weird how the women in this family can't come to terms with their real age. Kylie is 18 and looks 30 and Caitlyn here is trying to look like a 20 year old.



I never liked Bruce (although I occasionally felt sorry for him), and I don't like Caitlyn either, so it is easier for me to dish snark rather than compliments. But - I don't see anything wrong with this outfit for a day on the links, regardless of age. I think because of Cait's height the skirt appears like a mini when it might be longer on an average height person.


----------



## Florasun

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner was joined by a bearded mystery man at a Jamba Juice in her old stomping ground, Calabasas, on Friday.
> 
> If the polo shirt-clad gentleman was her new bodyguard, he was dwarfed by the 66-year-old trans-icon - who stands at 6ft4in in her kitten heels.
> 
> Last month, the ESPY Award winner told the Today Show that she was 'kind of open to anything' when it comes to romance after three marriages and six children.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ystery-man-Jamba-Juice-run.html#ixzz3qBBoGRzV



Kim trying to give pout mouth, as usual. Has she been surgically altered so that her lips always look like that?


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oh for gawd's sake.



*Caitlyn To Kris Jenner                                         Bubble Bath Birthday Message                                      *

*


           11/7/2015 9:30 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF         *





*Caitlyn Jenner* wished *Kris* a happy 60th birthday in her own special way ... and everyone at the party thought it was great. 
 During Kris' bash, a video montage was shown with a bunch of Kris'  family and friends. Caitlyn appears in the video in a bubble bath with a  glass of champagne. It's unclear exactly what she says ... but it  sounds like, "I love my friend."
 While it's still unclear if Caitlyn was at Kris' Great Gatsby themed party, she certainly left an impression.




Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/11/07/caitlyn-jenner-happy-birthday-bath-tub/#ixzz3qpnjWm8t
​


----------



## Jayne1

Coach Lover Too said:


> Oh for gawd's sake.
> 
> 
> 
> *Caitlyn To Kris Jenner                                         Bubble Bath Birthday Message                                      *
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 11/7/2015 9:30 AM PST BY TMZ STAFF         *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner* wished *Kris* a happy 60th birthday in her own special way ... and everyone at the party thought it was great.
> During Kris' bash, a video montage was shown with a bunch of Kris'  family and friends. Caitlyn appears in the video in a bubble bath with a  glass of champagne. It's unclear exactly what she says ... but it  sounds like, "I love my friend."
> While it's still unclear if Caitlyn was at Kris' Great Gatsby themed party, she certainly left an impression.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/11/07/caitlyn-jenner-happy-birthday-bath-tub/#ixzz3qpnjWm8t
> ​



Oh, f*ck.

Cait just made it all about her.  She really is a K!!


----------



## uhpharm01

Jayne1 said:


> Oh, f*ck.
> 
> Cait just made it all about her.  She really is a K!!



Haha


----------



## bag-princess

Jayne1 said:


> Oh, f*ck.
> 
> Cait just made it all about her.  She really is a K!!










and i saw somewhere while surfing around that kris spent $2 million dollar on this party!!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Well it's obvious that sh*t's Kontagious!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Imo, Shade 2 ways. It brings the attention back to her (CJ) and she copies kris' 30th b-day video 'I love my friends'
And I am disgusted with myself that I remembered it was from that video  

From I love my friends video


----------



## CobaltBlu

Encore Hermes said:


> Imo, Shade 2 ways. It brings the attention back to her (CJ) and she copies kris' 30th b-day video 'I love my friends'
> And I am disgusted with myself that I remembered it was from that video
> 
> From I love my friends video
> View attachment 3180946



doll.... you had to bring that mess up?


----------



## Encore Hermes

CobaltBlu said:


> doll.... you had to bring that mess up?



Wait a sec, hold your horses! ..........I could have posted * the whole video* vs one, uno, une, screen shot.  so count your blessings....



I had volume off btw


----------



## Jayne1

Encore Hermes said:


> Imo, Shade 2 ways. It brings the attention back to her (CJ) and she copies kris' 30th b-day video 'I love my friends'
> And I am disgusted with myself that I remembered it was from that video
> 
> From I love my friends video
> View attachment 3180946



Cate is so unoriginal.  lol


----------



## Eva1991

Encore Hermes said:


> Imo, Shade 2 ways. It brings the attention back to her (CJ) and she copies kris' 30th b-day video 'I love my friends'
> And I am disgusted with myself that I remembered it was from that video
> 
> From I love my friends video
> View attachment 3180946




30th birthday? Kris looks way older than 30 in that screenshot.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Encore Hermes said:


> Wait a sec, hold your horses! ..........I could have posted * the whole video* vs one, uno, une, screen shot.  so count your blessings....
> 
> 
> 
> I had volume off btw



  ok....thanks for not subjecting us to it!


----------



## DC-Cutie

So poor Rob wasn't included in the video, I see


----------



## ChanelMommy

DC-Cutie said:


> So poor Rob wasn't included in the video, I see



Noticed that and sad her children's father (lawyer) was in the video. At least I thought it was..


----------



## Sasha2012

With a Hollywood star treading the boards, Therese Raquin is the hot ticket on Broadway.

And Caitlyn Jenner dressed to impress in a bright red blouse and black pencil skirt as she ducked in to see a matinee performance of Keira Knightley's new play on Sunday.

The 66-year-old appeared serious as she made her way into the The Roundabout Theatre.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...h-Keira-Knightley-Broadway.html#ixzz3qwcw6Bo5


----------



## Jayne1

Harsh sunlight is not her friend.


----------



## Jikena

Red doesn't seem to suit her...


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner wore an all-white look to dinner in New York after taking in a matinee performance of Keira Knightley's new play Therese Raquin on Broadway.

The I Am Cait star donned a cream leather jacket over a white top and crisp white jeans while having dinner at The Half King Bar in Chelsea on Sunday.

The 66-year-old wore her brunette hair down over her shoulders as she headed into the Irish pub.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Knightley-s-Broadway-play.html#ixzz3qxicmlxq


----------



## LouboutinHottie

Jayne1 said:


> Harsh sunlight is not her friend.



Is it anybody's? Lol.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner wore an all-white look to dinner in New York after taking in a matinee performance of Keira Knightley's new play Therese Raquin on Broadway.
> 
> 
> 
> The I Am Cait star donned a cream leather jacket over a white top and crisp white jeans while having dinner at The Half King Bar in Chelsea on Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> The 66-year-old wore her brunette hair down over her shoulders as she headed into the Irish pub.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Knightley-s-Broadway-play.html#ixzz3qxicmlxq




I like her outfit here.


----------



## Sasha2012

As its name suggests, it is one of the most glamourous events of the year.

And some of the most esteemed names in the world of fashion, film, TV and music turned out on Monday for the Glamour Women Of The year Awards. 

Among those who walked the red carpet at Carnegie Hall in New York, was Caitlyn Jenner, who went all out in a showstopping sapphire blue outfit.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Women-Year-Awards-New-York.html#ixzz3r3HZTm4r


----------



## Staci_W

Those lips


----------



## mindy621_xoxo

I can't tell if I like that blue dress. I mean... I like the overall idea of it but... I don't know.


----------



## pittcat

Those hands.. I know she can't help it after living like a man for 60 years, but don't choose a dress that makes them stand out like that!


----------



## berrydiva

pittcat said:


> Those hands.. I know she can't help it *after living like a man* for 60 years, but don't choose a dress that makes them stand out like that!


I'm sorry but the bolded just made me laugh uncontrollably. thank you.


----------



## CobaltBlu

Well, i think that is a flattering color and a good effort. Nice earrings. 
Some serious treatments on the hands would help, and gloves on the golf course.

But overall, considering all the PS on the face, its not bad.
She is one of the better dressed of the Kardashian-Jenners


----------



## Bag*Snob

I like that blue gown and thinks she looks nice.


----------



## bisousx

Caitlyn looks great.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Jayne1 said:


> Harsh sunlight is not her friend.



Hot dang! Agree.


----------



## redney

From TLo

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/11/ca...at-the-2015-glamour-women-of-the-year-awards/

Oh, honey no. Is there no one in your life to yank dresses like this  out of your hands? We don&#8217;t care if Jeremy Scott came over to your house  and personally stitched this thing on you, you should have ripped it  off as soon as you caught a glimpse of yourself in a mirror. To be  perfectly blunt about it, it&#8217;s frumpy, it&#8217;s sloppy, it&#8217;s aging, and it&#8217;s  hellaciously unflattering on you. And your hair looks like you slept on  it. Congrats to you for your Woman of the Year award, but we&#8217;re  completely befuddled as to why you&#8217;d show up to accept it looking like  this.

 Do yourself a favor and don&#8217;t return Jeremy Scott&#8217;s calls anymore.


----------



## Jayne1

All I can say is, she's trying.  She's really, really trying hard.

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/11/ca...at-the-2015-glamour-women-of-the-year-awards/


----------



## Jikena

redney said:


> From TLo
> 
> http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/11/ca...at-the-2015-glamour-women-of-the-year-awards/
> 
> Oh, honey no. Is there no one in your life to yank dresses like this  out of your hands? We dont care if Jeremy Scott came over to your house  and personally stitched this thing on you, you should have ripped it  off as soon as you caught a glimpse of yourself in a mirror. To be  perfectly blunt about it, its frumpy, its sloppy, its aging, and its  hellaciously unflattering on you. And your hair looks like you slept on  it. Congrats to you for your Woman of the Year award, but were  completely befuddled as to why youd show up to accept it looking like  this.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and dont return Jeremy Scotts calls anymore.



Wtf. Why is the person writing this being so harsh ? I don't see anything wrong with that dress or her hair...


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

Oh wow! Cait looks different since the last time I visited this thread!


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

That's a lovely look.


----------



## redney

Jikena said:


> Wtf. Why is the person writing this being so harsh ? I don't see anything wrong with that dress or her hair...



They are two fashion bloggers. It's their opinion and you have yours.


----------



## michie

Sorry, but that hand looks like a Halloween prop.


----------



## Docjeun

He got woman of the year?


----------



## pittcat

michie said:


> Sorry, but that hand looks like a Halloween prop.




Right?! [emoji112]


----------



## Sasha2012

Trulyadiva said:


> He got woman of the year?



I find that offensive...I mean Caitlyn hasn't even legally been a woman for a year.


----------



## queen

Sasha2012 said:


> I find that offensive...I mean Caitlyn hasn't even legally been a woman for a year.


In my opinion the honorable thing to do would be to thank the people offering these "women's awards" but decline to allow someone else the chance.  When he competed in the games certain biological markers had to be met and they should for these also.  IMHO.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> in my opinion the honorable thing to do would be to thank the people offering these "women's awards" but decline to allow someone else the chance.  When he competed in the games certain biological markers had to be met and they should for these also.  Imho.


+1


----------



## Docjeun




----------



## GoGlam

I would look great in that gown......./


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Maybe it's the makeup or maybe she got more work done but dare I say facial she looks better


----------



## White Orchid

redney said:


> They are two fashion bloggers. It's their opinion and you have yours.



I actually agreed with every single word of that review lol.  But then again I'm a bish :greengrin:


----------



## White Orchid

Jayne1 said:


> All I can say is, she's trying.  She's really, really trying hard.
> 
> http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/11/ca...at-the-2015-glamour-women-of-the-year-awards/



And failing.  Failing really hard.  Funny how her and Kris have the exact same hands now.  And ain't no rock gonna make it look any prettier.  Not by a long mile.


----------



## chowlover2

I don't know why they don't do fillers on their hands, makes a huge difference.


----------



## Sasha2012

Zimbio

2015 Glamour Women of the Year Awards at Carnegie Hall on November 9, 2015 in New York City.


----------



## glamourous1098

Sasha2012 said:


> Zimbio
> 
> 2015 Glamour Women of the Year Awards at Carnegie Hall on November 9, 2015 in New York City.



Why is Kylie so underdressed?


----------



## Sasha2012

Zimbio

2015 Victoria's Secret Fashion Show at Lexington Avenue Armory on November 10, 2015 in New York City.


----------



## mrsinsyder

glamourous1098 said:


> Why is Kylie so underdressed?


I read somewhere that something happened to the outfit she had planned or something like that.

Why do I know this.


----------



## Jayne1

Another fake a$$.  

Sorry, that was mean.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jikena said:


> Wtf. Why is the person writing this being so harsh ? I don't see anything wrong with that dress or her hair...




Lol!!! And I see everything is wrong with that dress and that beehive.


----------



## Docjeun

dangerouscurves said:


> Lol!!! And I see everything is wrong with that dress and that beehive.




Ditto about the outfit, hair and everything else.

Don't bite my head off but I feel that this whole spectacle is  just wrong.

All I see is Bruce Jenner dressed like a woman with HUGE hands.  

I wonder what all these people at these events are thinking.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mrsinsyder said:


> I read somewhere that something happened to the outfit she had planned or something like that.
> 
> Why do I know this.



According to this article, she was running a fever.


*she has her daughters for help  Kylie, 18, was there but stayed backstage because she had a fever *

https://www.yahoo.com/style/2015-gl...caitlyn-jenner-in-a-custom-1447170120193.html


----------



## queen

Trulyadiva said:


> Ditto about the outfit, hair and everything else.
> 
> Don't bite my head off but I feel that this whole spectacle is  just wrong.
> 
> All I see is Bruce Jenner dressed like a woman with HUGE hands.
> 
> I wonder what all these people at these events are thinking.


Agree.  It is not pc but it is what I see.  If those pics were not put out there they would not be commented on.  When you seek publicity you will get comments flattering and unflattering.  Part of the game.

eta:  I think that is a french twist rather than a beehive.


----------



## bag-mania

queen said:


> In my opinion the honorable thing to do would be  to thank the people offering these "women's awards" but decline to allow  someone else the chance.  When he competed in the games certain  biological markers had to be met and they should for these also.   IMHO.



In truth these "awards" are a bunch of nonsense anyway. They exist  only to bring attention and publicity to the organization/company giving them.  They chose Caitlyn because they knew it would get the media focused on Glamour magazine, if only for a night. And it worked beautifully for them. Maybe they even got a few more subscribers out of it. That wouldn't be the case if they selected a more deserving, but lesser-known recipient.


----------



## YSoLovely

*Whats the hardest part for you about being a woman?*


The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. Its always that way; I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style  I learned as much as I  possibly could.


- Caitlyn Jenner


http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J




  
​


----------



## Jayne1

YSoLovely said:


> *What&#8217;s the hardest part for you about being a woman?*
> 
> 
> *The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. It&#8217;s always that way;* I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style &#8212; I learned as much as I  possibly could.
> 
> 
> - Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J
> 
> ​



Well, good for her. It should be that way for all women.


----------



## Jayne1

http://www.tmz.com


----------



## pukasonqo

YSoLovely said:


> *Whats the hardest part for you about being a woman?*
> 
> 
> The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. Its always that way; I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style  I learned as much as I  possibly could.
> 
> 
> - Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​




great, i am sure many women would gladly swap places with caitlyn is that the hardest thing of being a woman she has experienced so far
but then, it is from her POV, nobody else's and expecting a kartrashian (even one by marriage) to have some insight is like expecting my cat to tap dance...


----------



## bag-princess

White Orchid said:


> I actually agreed with every single word of that review lol. * But then again I'm a bish* :greengrin:





that's right - own it hunni!!!! 
http://forum.purseblog.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## tweegy

YSoLovely said:


> *Whats the hardest part for you about being a woman?*
> 
> 
> The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. Its always that way; I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style  I learned as much as I  possibly could.
> 
> 
> - Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Seriously?...


----------



## queen

bag-mania said:


> In truth these "awards" are a bunch of nonsense anyway. They exist  only to bring attention and publicity to the organization/company giving them.  They chose Caitlyn because they knew it would get the media focused on Glamour magazine, if only for a night. And it worked beautifully for them. Maybe they even got a few more subscribers out of it. That wouldn't be the case if they selected a more deserving, but lesser-known recipient.


I have no argument with that as I do not follow those awards or magazines.  I only know what I read here or catch on tv.  When it is an award it should live up to it's name.  Unless the award is for gaining glamour publicity it should be on the merit of something else identified.  It makes me think glamour is run by a bunch of idiots if that is the case.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> Seriously?...



OMg I am SO stealin' this one! hahahaha


----------



## redney

nononononono sideboob.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

YSoLovely said:


> *Whats the hardest part for you about being a woman?*
> 
> 
> The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. Its always that way; I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style  I learned as much as I  possibly could.
> 
> 
> - Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​




I would have guessed tucking.


----------



## White Orchid

Coach Lover Too said:


> I would have guessed tucking.



We have a somewhat crude expression down here in Oz, so allow me:

You on the p!ss again?  :greengrin:


----------



## Coach Lover Too

White Orchid said:


> We have a somewhat crude expression down here in Oz, so allow me:
> 
> You on the p!ss again?  :greengrin:



These threads do that to me!


----------



## AEGIS

i think she looked fine
i mean she's old and used to be a man
there's only so much we can expect


----------



## White Orchid

Lol, ouch!!!



AEGIS said:


> i think she looked fine
> i mean she's old and used to be a man
> there's only so much we can expect


----------



## Eva1991

Sasha2012 said:


> Zimbio
> 
> 2015 Glamour Women of the Year Awards at Carnegie Hall on November 9, 2015 in New York City.



I love Caitlyn's gown to be honest. She looks good.

What's Kylie wearing? She looks really underdressed.


----------



## AEGIS

White Orchid said:


> Lol, ouch!!!



was that mean? lol...i mean he still has a penis and doesn't have a little frame and played sports. Caitlyn will always look a lil awkward to me....and a lil slutty...her hemlines are a bit trashy


----------



## White Orchid

I can imagine Emmeline Pankhurst and her fellow suffragettes just rolling over in their graves over that comment.  Never mind inequality in pay, misogyny that often plagues the corporate world, the rates of domestic violence that is endemic in so many societies and the saturation of sexualised women in advertising, no.  The biggest problem with being a "woman" (in less than a year mind you), is what to wear.  This family truly is the personification of vacuous.



tweegy said:


> Seriously?...


----------



## White Orchid

Who cares if it was mean?  We're talking Bruce/Caitlin Jenner here.  All bets are off in my books when it comes to him and his/her clan.  There isn't an iota of sympathy coming from me.  Like, ever.

Oh and a bit trashy, lol?  Girl, let's call a spade a spade!  Have you seen those ugly knees?



AEGIS said:


> was that mean? lol...i mean he still has a penis and doesn't have a little frame and played sports. Caitlyn will always look a lil awkward to me....and a lil slutty...her hemlines are a bit trashy


----------



## Bag*Snob

Sorry Caitlyn, you transgenderd way too late in life to think you can pull off sideboob.


----------



## dangerouscurves

white orchid said:


> i can imagine emmelinepankhurst and her fellow suffragettes just rolling over in their graves over that comment.  Never mind inequality in pay, misogyny that often plagues the corporate world, the rates of domestic violence that is endemic in so many societies and the saturation of sexualised women in advertising, no.  The biggest problem with being a "woman" (in less than a year mind you), is what to wear.  This family truly is the personification of vacuous.




ikr?


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> I would have guessed tucking.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] How do you come with all these funny comments?


----------



## mrsinsyder

This has all become a terrible joke.


----------



## bag-princess

mrsinsyder said:


> This has all become a terrible joke.
> 
> View attachment 3184804
> 
> 
> View attachment 3184805





i.just.can't!!!!   the side-boob and then that little tummy pouch!


----------



## AEGIS

oh dear


----------



## AEGIS

gosh if my dad ever turned into a woman, i would hope he'd do it with more grace and little more class. like dad--it's too late for you to thot it up and toot it up. it's too late.


----------



## mrsinsyder

bag-princess said:


> i.just.can't!!!!   the side-boob and then that little tummy pouch!


And the weird wrinkling/pulling under the implants? 

No. Just no. I'm sure it happens but WE DON'T NEED TO SEE IT. K THX.


----------



## pinkngreenpurse

mrsinsyder said:


> This has all become a terrible joke.
> 
> View attachment 3184804
> 
> 
> View attachment 3184805


 Those knees..........................


----------



## maddie66

Bag*Snob said:


> Sorry Caitlyn, you transgenderd way too late in life to think you can pull off sideboob.




Apparently she wasn't kidding when she said the hardest part of being a woman was figuring out what to wear. Certainly seems to be true for many of her stepdaughters.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

mrsinsyder said:


> This has all become a terrible joke.
> 
> View attachment 3184804
> 
> 
> View attachment 3184805


----------



## LVmyotherbaby

bag-princess said:


> i.just.can't!!!!   the side-boob and then that little tummy pouch!



:lolots:


----------



## White Orchid

We're probably the only two here who recognised old Jed immediately :greengrin:



Coach Lover Too said:


>


----------



## mindy621_xoxo

Jayne1 said:


> Well, good for her. It should be that way for all women.




Haha right?! I wish I could say that was the hardest part about being a woman too! [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]


----------



## mindy621_xoxo

pukasonqo said:


> expecting a kartrashian (even one by marriage) to have some insight is like expecting my cat to tap dance...




HAHAHA. I literally laughed out loud at that comment! [emoji23]


----------



## Coach Lover Too

White Orchid said:


> We're probably the only two here who recognised old Jed immediately :greengrin:


----------



## V0N1B2

White Orchid said:


> I can imagine Emmeline Pankhurst and her fellow suffragettes just rolling over in their graves over that comment.  Never mind inequality in pay, misogyny that often plagues the corporate world, the rates of domestic violence that is endemic in so many societies and the saturation of sexualised women in advertising, no.  The biggest problem with being a "woman" (in less than a year mind you), is what to wear.  This family truly is the personification of vacuous.


Preach girl, preach. 


Coach Lover Too said:


>


What happened to your avi, doll?  I barely recognized you.


----------



## Grace123

mrsinsyder said:


> this has all become a terrible joke.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3184804
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3184805


----------



## AEGIS

White Orchid said:


> We're probably the only two here who recognised old Jed immediately :greengrin:



i watched that show as a kid
i never realized it was much older than i was lol


----------



## Coach Lover Too

V0N1B2 said:


> Preach girl, preach.
> 
> What happened to your avi, doll?  I barely recognized you.



I was thinkin' about switchin' it and haven't found one I like yet!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

AEGIS said:


> i watched that show as a kid
> i never realized it was much older than i was lol



I used to feel like Ellie Mae and now I feel like Granny!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

dangerouscurves said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] How do you come with all these funny comments?



I don't have a filter and it gets me in trouble sometimes!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

bag-princess said:


> i.just.can't!!!!   the side-boob and then that little tummy pouch!



Is that a scar around her waist or what?
I swear if this was my dad OR mom I would die from embarrassment.
Just when we thought she had it together, it starts falling out the sides!


----------



## bag-princess

Coach Lover Too said:


> Is that a scar around her waist or what?
> I swear if this was my dad OR mom I would die from embarrassment.
> *Just when we thought she had it together, it starts falling out the sides*!






:lolots::lolots:


----------



## Docjeun

YSoLovely said:


> *Whats the hardest part for you about being a woman?*
> 
> 
> The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. Its always that way; I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style  I learned as much as I  possibly could.
> 
> 
> - Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Why am I not surprised....


----------



## White Orchid

Welcome to mid life :greengrin:



Coach Lover Too said:


> I don't have a filter and it gets me in trouble sometimes!


----------



## White Orchid

:greengrin:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NwzaxUF0k18




AEGIS said:


> i watched that show as a kid
> i never realized it was much older than i was lol


----------



## Coach Lover Too

White Orchid said:


> :greengrin:
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NwzaxUF0k18



Loved that show! *Oil that is, Texas Tea!*


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

She is so clueless. 
I've heard a lot of transgender women say they never really understood the misogyny women face until they were able to start passing as women and it was very eye opening for them. But Caitlyn lives in a world of immense privilege. She was able to live a successful life as a man and now she just plays dress up for the cameras and hangs out with her paid tv friends and is surrounded by people who tell her how remarkable she is. Maybe the hardest part of being a woman would have been never having your career or fame as a female athlete...


----------



## Irishgal

White Orchid said:


> We're probably the only two here who recognised old Jed immediately :greengrin:




Sigh, I did as well....


----------



## bisousx

YSoLovely said:


> *Whats the hardest part for you about being a woman?*
> 
> 
> The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. Its always that way; I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style  I learned as much as I  possibly could.
> 
> 
> - Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​




I think she needs to watch what she says.
That being said, I don't know if I would have said anything much more meaningful. I'm having a great experience being a woman.


----------



## Sasha2012

She was in the city to witness her second youngest daughter realise a career dream.

And Caitlyn Jenner looked to have picked up Kendall's supermodel strut as she was pictured striding around New York City in a dangerously high-hem dress ahead of the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show at Lexington Avenue Armory on Tuesday.

However, her run wasn't quite so glamorous as the 20-year-old's as it was somewhat ruined by a spontaneous downpour.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ead-Victoria-s-Secret-show.html#ixzz3rFc6GLvN


----------



## pukasonqo

she should smile more frequently, that pic of her and kendall is cute
looks like kendall got her body shape from caitlyn


----------



## B. Jara

White Orchid said:


> We're probably the only two here who recognised old Jed immediately :greengrin:




I did, LOL


----------



## Jayne1

White Orchid said:


> We're probably the only two here who recognised old Jed immediately :greengrin:



Liked the actor, hated the silly show!


----------



## GaitreeS

Oh dear, I do not want to see so much aging skin, man, woman or whoever you choose, cover that ish up!


----------



## pinkngreenpurse

She needs a "knee job"


----------



## bag-princess

pinkngreenpurse said:


> She needs a "knee job"




+100  they is tragic!!!


----------



## Jayne1

GaitreeS said:


> Oh dear, I do not want to see so much aging skin, man, woman or whoever you choose, cover that ish up!



Ever notice how Jane Fonda is covered from head to toe on the red carpet?


----------



## solange

YSoLovely said:


> *Whats the hardest part for you about being a woman?*
> 
> 
> The hardest part about being a  woman is figuring out what to wear. Its always that way; I never  thought it would come to this. I had really no sense of style. Everyone  around me in my family had the sense of style  I learned as much as I  possibly could.
> 
> 
> - Caitlyn Jenner
> 
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinharr...-of-the-woman-hasnt-been-unleashed#.ekxOLqR9J
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



I noticed these comments in particular after the article:


> So he is transgendered, theres nothing wrong with that, so is my son. Im glad hes proud and happy with his life. But being transgendered does not mean he is a woman, he is a transgendered person. Im a woman, and believe me the baby thats kicking me in the ribs right now is definite proof that there is a big difference. I think India is actually way ahead of us on this one, we need to recognize a third gender. Not a man, not a woman, but a unique and special gender that is neither of the regular types. Then we can have T on drivers licenses, bathroom doors, etc, and everyone can have what they need without having to infringe on the privacy of cisgendered people, or diminish the rights of the transgendered people to simply go about their lives in peace enjoying all the same daily conveniences the rest of us do. Now, coming up with a new pronoun, that might take a little more work..



And 



> Gmh5680
> 
> Buzzfeed Are you kidding? I get that youre trying to support trans people, but it should NOT be at the expense of female dignity. I wont bother to restate everything that other women have already said. Theyre correct, and were not impressed.



I think these express the offense many biological women have taken to Jenner in particular, and to the media's embrace of that movement through its misogynistic dismissal of female experience and opinion. The media is not making the issues any easier.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Wonder what her and Kris are deep  in conversation about..


----------



## solange

ChanelMommy said:


> Wonder what her and Kris are deep  in conversation about..



Who would look best in that black dress.


----------



## skarsbabe

mrsinsyder said:


> This has all become a terrible joke.
> 
> View attachment 3184804
> 
> 
> View attachment 3184805



pardon me while I vomit! what. the. hell.


----------



## Jayne1

ChanelMommy said:


> Wonder what her and Kris are deep  in conversation about..



It's just for the cameras.  I bet Kris hates Cait a bit now. But she knows how to pose and smile, and she taught her kids to do the same.


----------



## tweegy

solange said:


> I noticed these comments in particular after the article:
> 
> 
> And
> 
> 
> 
> I think these express the offense many biological women have taken to Jenner in particular, and to the media's embrace of that movement through its misogynistic dismissal of female experience and opinion. The media is not making the issues any easier.



I wonder - Say the roles were reversed -  If it were Kris transitioning into a man and acting the SAME way Caitlyn is. How would the reception be. Her saying she's a man...


----------



## queen

tweegy said:


> I wonder - Say the roles were reversed -  If it were Kris transitioning into a man and acting the SAME way Caitlyn is. How would the reception be. Her saying she's a man...


I admit it is hard for me to see the pictures and attention Jenner is given.  Being the same age as Jenner I have to wonder how he/she could put this on the family and friends.  I know he said he did not want to die not having lived as a woman.  Being near the end of my life I don't want to do anything to cause problems for others.  I think daily of things I could have done different if not being so concerned with my own feelings.  I feel in my heart it is a selfish thing to do just to wear some clothing and being fawned on.  At this stage of life it seems his fashion desires could have been satisfied in his personal time.  She has said the romantic side of life is not even on her radar so it seems it is the fashionista desire that fueled this.  The additional fact that he said if Kris had been more accepting it would not have even come about.  I can not imagine the pain and confusion of accepting one's husband or father had changed genders.


----------



## mcb100

I liked her outfit at the fashion show


----------



## sdkitty

queen said:


> I admit it is hard for me to see the pictures and attention Jenner is given.  Being the same age as Jenner I have to wonder how he/she could put this on the family and friends.  I know he said he did not want to die not having lived as a woman.  Being near the end of my life I don't want to do anything to cause problems for others.  I think daily of things I could have done different if not being so concerned with my own feelings.  I feel in my heart it is a selfish thing to do just to wear some clothing and being fawned on.  At this stage of life it seems his fashion desires could have been satisfied in his personal time.  She has said the romantic side of life is not even on her radar so it seems it is the fashionista desire that fueled this.  The additional fact that he said if Kris had been more accepting it would not have even come about.  I can not imagine the pain and confusion of accepting one's husband or father had changed genders.


I agree with you
Its hard for me to feel sorry for Kris but taking her out of the equation and saying just a wife, I certainly would sympathize.  And for the two younger daughters especially this would be very hard.  
The whole thing is bizarre.


----------



## Jayne1

tweegy said:


> I wonder - Say the roles were reversed -  If it were Kris transitioning into a man and acting the SAME way Caitlyn is. How would the reception be. Her saying she's a man...



I think it would make more sense to us, even though we have been seeing Cait feminizing herself for decades, Kris transitioning into a man just seems right. The reception would be no one would notice.  lol


----------



## Jayne1

queen said:


> I admit it is hard for me to see the pictures and attention Jenner is given.  Being the same age as Jenner I have to wonder how he/she could put this on the family and friends.  I know he said he did not want to die not having lived as a woman.  Being near the end of my life I don't want to do anything to cause problems for others.  I think daily of things I could have done different if not being so concerned with my own feelings.  I feel in my heart it is a selfish thing to do just to wear some clothing and being fawned on.  At this stage of life it seems his fashion desires could have been satisfied in his personal time..



Your comments really resonate with me. I think daily too.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Wouldn't her still living and dressing as Bruce and still cause problems in some shape or form. The family basically blamed her temper and lack of emotional availability  on the fact that she was suppressing these feelings for decades


----------



## tweegy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...sters-angry-scenes-LGBT-charity-luncheon.html

Guess we'll see this on season 2...


----------



## Encore Hermes

Possibly staged for publicity?


----------



## redney

I was just coming to post this. #IAintCait

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4885466?cps=gravity_2692_-5602667297224890982

*[FONT=&quot]Protesters Confront Caitlyn Jenner: 'You're An Insult To Trans People'[/FONT]*
*[FONT=&quot]Protestors used the hashtag #IAintCait.[/FONT]*

  [FONT=&quot]Caitlyn Jenner met face-to-face with protesters who called her "an insult to trans people." 

[/FONT]   [FONT=&quot]Jenner was chosen to speak at the Chicago House Speaker Series luncheon for the Chicago House, which helps those affected by HIV/AIDS in the LGBT community, on Thursday.[/FONT]

  [FONT=&quot]Some, however, were unhappy about Jenner being the keynote speaker. A group of protesters stood outside to challenge the former Olympian. In the video above, one protester says to Jenner: "You are an insult to trans people, you are an insult to women. You have no right to represent us."[/FONT]

  [FONT=&quot]The video shows Jenner approaching one protestor, seemingly attempting to diffuse the situation and telling her she loves her.  [/FONT]

  [FONT=&quot]&#8220;The chaos outside was a great contrast to the uplifting atmosphere inside where Caitlyn had just given her speech,&#8221; Chicago radio host Showbiz Shelly told ET. &#8220;I thought she handled the situation with poise. By confronting the protesters in the way she did, she emphasized the themes she talked about in her speech. To be respectful, be brave and stand up for what you believe in.&#8221;[/FONT]

  [FONT=&quot]A Facebook page created for the protest, which has since been deleted, highlighted Jenner's celebrity status a reason for her being a poor representation of the trans community. According to Towleroad, the page read: [/FONT]

  [FONT=&quot]Who, you may ask, did they select to speak on the issues facing trans people and especially trans women in our city? Caitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn Jenner, who lives in a mansion and has a net worth of millions of dollars, while the average trans person has a 41 percent chance of experiencing homelessness [sic] and a nearly 50 percent chance of living off less than $10k per year ... [/FONT]

  [FONT=&quot]If you think Chicago House&#8217;s shameless pandering to the trans community for mediocre representation, embodied by a clueless rich white woman who thinks disenfranchised trans women of color should just pluck themselves up off the street and stop being so lazy, is an insult and a disgrace, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Meet us in the lobby Thursday to tell Chicago House, Caitlyn Jenner, and all her supporters that Caitlyn Jenner doesn&#8217;t represent trans people! Stand up and say: #IAintCait!&#8221;[/FONT]

  [FONT=&quot]A rep for Jenner was not immediately available for comment. [/FONT]


----------



## Hobbsy

redney said:


> I was just coming to post this. #IAintCait
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4885466?cps=gravity_2692_-5602667297224890982
> 
> *[FONT=&quot]Protesters Confront Caitlyn Jenner: 'You're An Insult To Trans People'[/FONT]*
> *[FONT=&quot]Protestors used the hashtag #IAintCait.[/FONT]*
> 
> [FONT=&quot]Caitlyn Jenner met face-to-face with protesters who called her "an insult to trans people."
> 
> [/FONT]   [FONT=&quot]Jenner was chosen to speak at the Chicago House Speaker Series luncheon for the Chicago House, which helps those affected by HIV/AIDS in the LGBT community, on Thursday.[/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=&quot]Some, however, were unhappy about Jenner being the keynote speaker. A group of protesters stood outside to challenge the former Olympian. In the video above, one protester says to Jenner: "You are an insult to trans people, you are an insult to women. You have no right to represent us."[/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=&quot]The video shows Jenner approaching one protestor, seemingly attempting to diffuse the situation and telling her she loves her.  [/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=&quot]The chaos outside was a great contrast to the uplifting atmosphere inside where Caitlyn had just given her speech, Chicago radio host Showbiz Shelly told ET. I thought she handled the situation with poise. By confronting the protesters in the way she did, she emphasized the themes she talked about in her speech. To be respectful, be brave and stand up for what you believe in.[/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=&quot]A Facebook page created for the protest, which has since been deleted, highlighted Jenner's celebrity status a reason for her being a poor representation of the trans community. According to Towleroad, the page read: [/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=&quot]Who, you may ask, did they select to speak on the issues facing trans people and especially trans women in our city? Caitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn Jenner, who lives in a mansion and has a net worth of millions of dollars, while the average trans person has a 41 percent chance of experiencing homelessness [sic] and a nearly 50 percent chance of living off less than $10k per year ... [/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=&quot]If you think Chicago Houses shameless pandering to the trans community for mediocre representation, embodied by a clueless rich white woman who thinks disenfranchised trans women of color should just pluck themselves up off the street and stop being so lazy, is an insult and a disgrace, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Meet us in the lobby Thursday to tell Chicago House, Caitlyn Jenner, and all her supporters that Caitlyn Jenner doesnt represent trans people! Stand up and say: #IAintCait![/FONT]
> 
> [FONT=&quot]A rep for Jenner was not immediately available for comment. [/FONT]



Extremely valid point! If he had tried to be an advocate for Trans women from the get go instead of worrying about his clothes he might have had a chance to really make a difference.  What a pity.


----------



## queen

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Wouldn't her still living and dressing as Bruce and still cause problems in some shape or form. The family basically blamed her temper and lack of emotional availability  on the fact that she was suppressing these feelings for decades


Yeah, sure, right.  Nothing like playing the blame game.  That is not directed at you but whoever laid the blame for her poor behavior on her current position or rather lack thereof.   I just can not get behind her plight in any shape or form.  If she were in such distress I doubt she could have been an Olympic champion.  I'd sooner think just her personality or playing with hormones as she has.  Were she leading a private life I would make no comments but since it is her occupation and source of income she opened the door so I don't worry to much about walking thru.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> I admit it is hard for me to see the pictures and attention Jenner is given.  Being the same age as Jenner I have to wonder how he/she could put this on the family and friends.  I know he said he did not want to die not having lived as a woman.  *Being near the end of my life I don't want to do anything to cause problems for others.  I think daily of things I could have done different if not being so concerned with my own feelings.*  I feel in my heart it is a selfish thing to do just to wear some clothing and being fawned on.  At this stage of life it seems his fashion desires could have been satisfied in his personal time.  She has said the romantic side of life is not even on her radar so it seems it is the fashionista desire that fueled this.  The additional fact that he said if Kris had been more accepting it would not have even come about.  I can not imagine the pain and confusion of accepting one's husband or father had changed genders.





Jayne1 said:


> Your comments really resonate with me. I think daily too.



Absolutely. I would have rather gone to my grave wondering *what if* than to put that kind of burden on my family, and especially my kids. CJ gives a whole new meaning to the term self-absorbed.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

queen said:


> Yeah, sure, right.  Nothing like playing the blame game.  That is not directed at you but whoever laid the blame for her poor behavior on her current position or rather lack thereof.   I just can not get behind her plight in any shape or form.  If she were in such distress I doubt she could have been an Olympic champion.  I'd sooner think just her personality or playing with hormones as she has.  Were she leading a private life I would make no comments but since it is her occupation and source of income she opened the door so I don't worry to much about walking thru.



I think there's a lot of reasons why people are the way they are and I think her keeping this in for decades is just one part of it. It's a lot easier for someone who hasn't struggled with identity issues to this degree  to say you should've just stayed the closet. A miserable parent makes everyone else miserable too. It's tough on the family in the beginning but people eventually adapt to it. I'd rather they transition than be depressed for the rest of their life. We only get one life. People might call her selfish but it would also be selfish of me to say to a parent don't do it because it makes me uncomfortable.

So many transgender people don't transition just like so many gay/lesbians don't come out because they're scared of ruffling feathers. Keeping it in isn't healthy and that's one reason why the suicide rate in the lgbt community is so high. People would probably feel different if it were someone they actually cared about instead of a celebrity.


----------



## sdkitty

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I think there's a lot of reasons why people are the way they are and I think her keeping this in for decades is just one part of it. It's a lot easier for someone who hasn't struggled with identity issues to this degree  to say you should've just stayed the closet. A miserable parent makes everyone else miserable too. It's tough on the family in the beginning but people eventually adapt to it. I'd rather they transition than be depressed for the rest of their life. We only get one life. People might call her selfish but it would also be selfish of me to say to a parent don't do it because it makes me uncomfortable.
> 
> So many transgender people don't transition just like so many gay/lesbians don't come out because they're scared of ruffling feathers. Keeping it in isn't healthy and that's one reason why the suicide rate in the lgbt community is so high. People would probably feel different if it were someone they actually cared about instead of a celebrity.


I'm sorry if this is wrong but to me if you can keep this secret until age 65, then you can keep it to the end of your life.  Maybe there are some men who feel like they should have been women (or boys who feel like girls) who have some biological component to the feeling, but clearly Caitlyn was physically a man and still looks like one (IMO)


----------



## Coach Lover Too

encore hermes said:


> possibly staged for publicity?



+1


----------



## tweegy

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I think there's a lot of reasons why people are the way they are and I think her keeping this in for decades is just one part of it. It's a lot easier for someone who hasn't struggled with identity issues to this degree  to say you should've just stayed the closet. A miserable parent makes everyone else miserable too. It's tough on the family in the beginning but people eventually adapt to it. I'd rather they transition than be depressed for the rest of their life. We only get one life. People might call her selfish but it would also be selfish of me to say to a parent don't do it because it makes me uncomfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> So many transgender people don't transition just like so many gay/lesbians don't come out because they're scared of ruffling feathers. Keeping it in isn't healthy and that's one reason why the suicide rate in the lgbt community is so high. People would probably feel different if it were someone they actually cared about instead of a celebrity.




Imo she's still miserable...


----------



## pukasonqo

in oz you have to go through two years on psychological counselling before surgery as part of the transition process, is it the same in the USA?
caitlyn looks bitter but she looked bitter when she was bruce, although she is lucky as she has money and (to the surprise of many, me included) is being feted as some kind of LGBT advocate (beats me why) she is probably finding out that life does not magically change once you are out and whatever issues she had before haven't gone away, she still has to deal with them plus the psychological effects of changing from bruce to caitlyn...


----------



## V0N1B2

pukasonqo said:


> in oz you have to go through two years on psychological counselling before surgery as part of the transition process, is it the same in the USA?
> caitlyn looks bitter but she looked bitter when she was bruce, although she is lucky as she has money and (to the surprise of many, me included) is being feted as some kind of LGBT advocate (beats me why) she is probably finding out that life does not magically change once you are out and whatever issues she had before haven't gone away, she still has to deal with them plus the psychological effects of changing from bruce to caitlyn...


Exactly!
She got new tits, not a personality augmentation.


----------



## Jayne1

tweegy said:


> Imo she's still miserable...



But she can bury her misery in her closet playing with her new clothes and trying on new makeup. I think that's what she does.


----------



## queen

never mind


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> No one said life was easy.  I am 65, I have lived a long time and have seen a lot of things.  Lots of people go thru difficult times.  Life brings circumstances that can not be changed.  These things hurt forever.  Believe me I know.  Sorry, Jenner has had a charmed life.  Other than wanting to be a woman most anything a person could want.  If he waited so long because he could not take the heat to make the change what about his kids.  All of them not just Kylie and Kendall.  We all have things to bear in life and making this change at 65 is just bizarre.  That's my opinion. I would not put myself thru the physical procedures Jenner did just to parade around in designer clothing and purses.  But it is a free country so everybody makes their own choice.  Jenner's very selfish.  Her mother really did not need to have to hear that her son was becoming a woman at such an advanced age.   To be 90 and hear this just selfish.  Lastly, I do not think a child should ask a parent not to change genders at 65, I think the parent should not have had the child knowing they wanted to change.  We can just agree to disagree as i respect your feelings.



I agree with you 100% and maybe it's because we're close in age, I dunno.

I don't get the impression for one second that BJ/CJ has struggled his/her whole life with this. He even said if Kris had been ok with it they would still be together. Well guess what Jenner, the world doesn't revolve around you. I personally would NEVER put that kind of burden on my children at this stage of my life, but my kids mean the world to me and I get the feeling that CJ is ALL about CJ and no one else.


----------



## sally.m

Husband of 9/11 hero cop returns his wife's Woman of the Year award after Glamour honors Caitlyn Jenner
Police officer Moira Smith helped evacuate people out of Tower Two during 9/11 terrorist attacks
She saved the lives of dozens of people before the building collapsed and killed the 38-year-old mother of one
Smith was the only female cop to die in the atrocity and was posthumously named a Glamour Woman of the Year in 2001
Now the magazine has given the same honor to transgender reality TV star Caitlyn Jenner
Smith's furious widower claimed the decision was 'insulting' to his wife's memory - and has returned the award 
Glamour magazine 'stands by' Jenner  and says it recognizes women for a variety of 'experiences'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...our-honored-Caitlyn-Jenner.html#ixzz3re1bAFq8 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------



## dooneybaby

Jayne1 said:


> But she can bury her misery in her closet playing with her new clothes and trying on new makeup. I think that's what she does.


When I'm having a bad day, a new outfit always works for me. But I think Caitlyn's issues go a little deeper.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

sally.m said:


> Husband of 9/11 hero cop returns his wife's Woman of the Year award after Glamour honors Caitlyn Jenner
> Police officer Moira Smith helped evacuate people out of Tower Two during 9/11 terrorist attacks
> She saved the lives of dozens of people before the building collapsed and killed the 38-year-old mother of one
> Smith was the only female cop to die in the atrocity and was posthumously named a Glamour Woman of the Year in 2001
> Now the magazine has given the same honor to transgender reality TV star Caitlyn Jenner
> Smith's furious widower claimed the decision was 'insulting' to his wife's memory - and has returned the award
> Glamour magazine 'stands by' Jenner  and says it recognizes women for a variety of 'experiences'
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...our-honored-Caitlyn-Jenner.html#ixzz3re1bAFq8
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook




Much respect to that husband and I agree with him completely.


----------



## queen

All I can say is wow.  I can hardly compare the actions of the two.  A police officer who lost her live trying to save others and a fashionista.  I am tired of the pc correctness  that allows us to reward people who have done nothing but satisfy their own feelings.  I have no problem acknowledging I have no control over anybody's feelings but I do not have to reward them.  Do what you have to but everybody else does not have to agree.


----------



## terebina786

My SO was even disgusted that Caitlyn said that it's difficult being a woman because its hard to decide what to wear... he said he may not know what it feels like to be a woman, but he's pretty sure there are more hardships than that.


----------



## addisonshopper

Things have gone to far. As a woman i am offended by this.  
I dont like this my rights are more important than your rights.  I can support this decision as so many woman out here deserve this award more than someone who decided they wanted to become a woman.  
Certain things in life one should not be able to change - your race, your sex, and the fact that we all die 
Im gonna wake up tomorrow after years of wanting to be caucasian and say I no longer want to be a black woman.   And i know i know this is not actually how it is. Just using a sample or reference.   I dont want to offend anyone but im tired of being offended by alot of things.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

sally.m said:


> Husband of 9/11 hero cop returns his wife's Woman of the Year award after Glamour honors Caitlyn Jenner
> Police officer Moira Smith helped evacuate people out of Tower Two during 9/11 terrorist attacks
> She saved the lives of dozens of people before the building collapsed and killed the 38-year-old mother of one
> Smith was the only female cop to die in the atrocity and was posthumously named a Glamour Woman of the Year in 2001
> Now the magazine has given the same honor to transgender reality TV star Caitlyn Jenner
> Smith's furious widower claimed the decision was 'insulting' to his wife's memory - and has returned the award
> Glamour magazine 'stands by' Jenner  and says it recognizes women for a variety of 'experiences'
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...our-honored-Caitlyn-Jenner.html#ixzz3re1bAFq8
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



Are there more deserving women ....absolutely yes no doubt..... but dude a Glamour Mag award isn't that serious or prestigious. He's The one insulting his wife's memory by throwing a tantrum and being transphobic not Glamour not CJ


----------



## Hobbsy

sally.m said:


> Husband of 9/11 hero cop returns his wife's Woman of the Year award after Glamour honors Caitlyn Jenner
> Police officer Moira Smith helped evacuate people out of Tower Two during 9/11 terrorist attacks
> She saved the lives of dozens of people before the building collapsed and killed the 38-year-old mother of one
> Smith was the only female cop to die in the atrocity and was posthumously named a Glamour Woman of the Year in 2001
> Now the magazine has given the same honor to transgender reality TV star Caitlyn Jenner
> Smith's furious widower claimed the decision was 'insulting' to his wife's memory - and has returned the award
> Glamour magazine 'stands by' Jenner  and says it recognizes women for a variety of 'experiences'
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...our-honored-Caitlyn-Jenner.html#ixzz3re1bAFq8
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



Agree 1000%


----------



## Hobbsy

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Are there more deserving women ....absolutely yes no doubt..... but dude a Glamour Mag award isn't that serious or prestigious. He's The one insulting his wife's memory by throwing a tantrum and being transphobic not Glamour not CJ



Nothing transphobic about it. His wife and Bruce Jenner .....like apples and oranges.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Hobbsy said:


> Nothing transphobic about it. His wife and Bruce Jenner .....like apples and oranges.



If he wants to reserve this award for actual heroes or someone that's trying to change people's lives for the better than where was his outrage when Britney Spears or Lady Gaga won. This isn't some Medal of Honor from the president/mayor/governor it's Glamour Magazine. Glamour will give it to any woman that promises to show up and get them attention. Referring to her as "this man" is transphobic she is LEGALLY a woman. 

Idk why it's so hard for people just to give her that courtesy it doesn't make you less of a woman. Doing it because you don't like her as a person just makes you look petty. Yeah she's a narcissist and superficial but so are other people who have won that award.


----------



## Hobbsy

ForeverYoung87 said:


> If he wants to reserve this award for actual heroes or someone that's trying to change people's lives for the better than where was his outrage when Britney Spears or Lady Gaga won. This isn't some Medal of Honor from the president/mayor/governor it's Glamour Magazine. Glamour will give it to any woman that promises to show up and get them attention. Referring to her as "this man" is transphobic she is LEGALLY a woman.
> 
> Idk why it's so hard for people just to give her that courtesy it doesn't make you less of a woman. Doing it because you don't like her as a person just makes you look petty. Yeah she's a narcissist and superficial but so are other people who have won that award.



Legally I think it's called a man. I'm not transphobic....I'm transfake.


----------



## guccimamma

i type things in this thread, and then i delete them. then i get angry at myself for wasting time on this delusional person and her "problems".


----------



## pmburk

Legitimate question, but doesn't Bruce/Caitlyn still have a penis? So technically still a man, or transgendered person - but NOT a woman. Is that correct? 

I'm not trying to be argumentative or transphobic or whatever, I'm just trying to get this straightened out in my mind.


----------



## manpursefan

Her taste in bags is improving


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> If he wants to reserve this award for actual heroes or someone that's trying to change people's lives for the better than where was his outrage when Britney Spears or Lady Gaga won. This isn't some Medal of Honor from the president/mayor/governor it's Glamour Magazine. Glamour will give it to any woman that promises to show up and get them attention. Referring to her as "this man" is transphobic she is LEGALLY a woman.
> 
> *Idk why it's so hard for people just to give her that courtesy* it doesn't make you less of a woman. Doing it because you don't like her as a person just makes you look petty. Yeah she's a narcissist and superficial but so are other people who have won that award.




I'll give the courtesy when it's deserved and in my opinion it isn't.
I've also cancelled my subscription to the mag.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Hobbsy said:


> Legally I think it's called a man.* I'm not transphobic....I'm transfake.*



Love that!


----------



## addisonshopper

Coach Lover Too said:


> I'll give the courtesy when it's deserved and in my opinion it isn't.
> I've also cancelled my subscription to the mag.



there you go !!! 100% behind you... we have the right to not accept it or agree with it..
I don't know how any court of law decided it was ok for him to change is sex-- you born a man you die a man.. plain and simple.. now you can live your life anyway you see fit..


----------



## Coach Lover Too

addisonshopper said:


> there you go !!! 100% behind you... we have the right to not accept it or agree with it..
> I don't know how any court of law decided it was ok for him to change is sex-- you born a man you die a man.. plain and simple.. now you can live your life anyway you see fit..



Exactly. I'm getting a little sick of it (CJ) being shoved in my face. The whole thing seems so disingenuous to me anyway.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> Exactly. I'm getting a little sick of it (CJ) being shoved in my face. The whole thing seems so disingenuous to me anyway.



Then why keep following her or watching the show. It's not that hard to avoid news about her...turn off the google alerts. Stop punishing yourself lol


----------



## Eva1991

queen said:


> I admit it is hard for me to see the pictures and attention Jenner is given.  Being the same age as Jenner I have to wonder how he/she could put this on the family and friends.  I know he said he did not want to die not having lived as a woman.  Being near the end of my life I don't want to do anything to cause problems for others.  I think daily of things I could have done different if not being so concerned with my own feelings.  I feel in my heart it is a selfish thing to do just to wear some clothing and being fawned on.  At this stage of life it seems his fashion desires could have been satisfied in his personal time.  She has said the romantic side of life is not even on her radar so it seems it is the fashionista desire that fueled this.  The additional fact that he said if Kris had been more accepting it would not have even come about.  I can not imagine the pain and confusion of accepting one's husband or father had changed genders.



We only get one life. The fact that Caitlyn is a parent (all her children are adults by the way) doesn't take away her right to live her life as she wants to.


----------



## Hobbsy

coach lover too said:


> love that!



&#128522;&#128556;&#128077;


----------



## Coach Lover Too

pmburk said:


> Legitimate question, but doesn't Bruce/Caitlyn still have a penis? So technically still a man, or transgendered person - but NOT a woman. Is that correct?
> 
> I'm not trying to be argumentative or transphobic or whatever, I'm just trying to get this straightened out in my mind.



I guess it depends on who you ask on this thread, but yes, in my opinion CJ is technically still male.  Makeup, implants, dresses, plastic surgery, even reconstruction doesn't change your DNA.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Then why keep following her or watching the show. It's not that hard to avoid news about her...turn off the google alerts. Stop punishing yourself lol



That's easier said than done. Even if you don't follow them on Twitter/etc other people do and things are constantly getting shared. 
I don't sign up for alerts on Google and I think we've had this conversation before.
As far as the show goes, I have no plans on watching Part 2. I saw enough of Part 1 to know CJ's as fake as the rest of that family.

(and that's exactly why I cancelled the subscription.....)


----------



## queen

coach lover too said:


> i guess it depends on who you ask on this thread, but yes, in my opinion cj is technically still male.  Makeup, implants, dresses, plastic surgery, even reconstruction doesn't change your dna.


+1


----------



## addisonshopper

I don't follow nor do I watch any of the shows  I stopped watching after Kims marriage shenanigans with Chris Humphries.. I said that was it . but every where you turn you see this man dressed as a woman and in my opinion thats just what it is.. If Bruce wants to live his life as a woman so be it, but the laws and society don't have to change just because of it..Woman of the year HE IS NOT TO ME.. HE can be act like woman all day long and if he is honest with his  partners and people he deals with than fine.. but the whole world doesn't have to change because of.. I am sorry the line has to be drawn somewhere...its just gotten to be to much and the bullying of people who don't agree or believe in such a lifestyle is gotten ridiculous ...


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

pmburk said:


> Legitimate question, but doesn't Bruce/Caitlyn still have a penis? So technically still a man, or transgendered person - but NOT a woman. Is that correct?
> 
> I'm not trying to be argumentative or transphobic or whatever, I'm just trying to get this straightened out in my mind.



No, she is a woman regardless of her genitalia.


----------



## queen

Eva1991 said:


> We only get one life. The fact that Caitlyn is a parent (all her children are adults by the way) doesn't take away her right to live her life as she wants to.


It's a matter of perception.  I don't think I said he/she had no right I believe I called it selfish.  I don't know if you are a parent, but it has been my observation, that what we do as parents, impacts our adult children's lives, just as what they do impacts us.  In my youth you were born male or female and lived your life that way with a few exceptions.  Now it is different and I understand that.  It does not change my thinking that Bruce Jenner is a very selfish and self centered person, who lived a full life as a male and now is living life as a female.  Jenner can have all the surgery he/she wants and be legally declared a woman but that does not change the dna or the fact a penis is still in place.   People on here are constantly going on about his former wife and her off spring and how they have mutilated themselves with procedures.  I see no difference.  Being a part of that family taught him it was profitable to be a female showing skin.


----------



## jimmyshoogirl

This thread is still going lol. 

But seriously woman of the YEAR?


----------



## queen

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> No, she is a woman regardless of her genitalia.


In your world but not mine.


----------



## Eva1991

queen said:


> It's a matter of perception.  I don't think I said he/she had no right I believe I called it selfish.  I don't know if you are a parent, but it has been my observation, that what we do as parents, impacts our adult children's lives, just as what they do impacts us.  In my youth you were born male or female and lived your life that way with a few exceptions.  Now it is different and I understand that.  It does not change my thinking that Bruce Jenner is a very selfish and self centered person, who lived a full life as a male and now is living life as a female.  Jenner can have all the surgery he/she wants and be legally declared a woman but that does not change the dna or the fact a penis is still in place.   People on here are constantly going on about his former wife and her off spring and how they have mutilated themselves with procedures.  I see no difference.  Being a part of that family taught him it was profitable to be a female showing skin.



No, I'm not a parent. I get the fact that you were born in a different era and you grew up with different ideals, just like my parents did. When I told my own mom about Caitlyn's transition and that I'm completely supporting her transition she looked at me as if I were an alien. She couldn't wrap her mind around it at all, because when she grew up sex and gender were the same thing; people didn't know any different and if someone felt they belonged to the wrong body, they would never talk about it, let alone go through with a transition. Back in the 60's - 70's people didn't even openly admit they were gay. 

Nowadays, things are different and I'm glad they are. There is of course a long way to go in order for our society to fully accept and embrace these people and their journey but things are definetly better than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Science has gone a long way since then; we now know that sex and gender are two seperate things and people with gender issues can get the help and guidance they need. 

IMO, saying that Caitlyn is a selfish person is one thing - and she might be, won't argue on that - but saying that she's selfish _because _she transitioned is different and I personally disagree. To each their own though.


----------



## queen

Eva1991 said:


> No, I'm not a parent. I get the fact that you were born in a different era and you grew up with different ideals, just like my parents did. When I told my own mom about Caitlyn's transition and that I'm completely supporting her transition she looked at me as if I were an alien. She couldn't wrap her mind around it at all, because when she grew up sex and gender were the same thing; people didn't know any different and if someone felt they belonged to the wrong body, they would never talk about it, let alone go through with a transition. Back in the 60's - 70's people didn't even openly admit they were gay.
> 
> Nowadays, things are different and I'm glad they are. There is of course a long way to go in order for our society to fully accept and embrace these people and their journey but things are definetly better than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Science has gone a long way since then; we now know that sex and gender are two seperate things and people with gender issues can get the help and guidance they need.
> 
> IMO, saying that Caitlyn is a selfish person is one thing - and she might be, won't argue on that - but saying that she's selfish _because _she transitioned is different and I personally disagree. To each their own though.


I agree to each their own.  We can agree to disagree.  I will point out that things are often thought to be one way and the next thing you hear that is repealed and a different thing or back to the first thought.  I believe people have feelings.  We can get an idea and over time come to believe differently.  After 65 years living a successful life as a man and then changing to a woman is not to be taken likely.  This is a man who was interested in typically male things.  It was not like some man who was interested in female things all his life.  If his feelings were always to be a female and he engaged in those activities and did not marry multiple women and father several children it would be easier to accept.  And I personally heard him make light of a gay male on tv.  So if he was pining to be and do womanly things he sure hid it well.  I believe she is still engaging in her interests in helicopters, cars and various sports.  Haven't heard of her doing womanly things others than makeup, dress and hair.  Also the fact that she is being compensated for sharing her journey kind of looks a little convenient.  Anyway, she is a free agent and may do as she pleases but I don't have to agree that I think she is a woman.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> That's easier said than done. Even if you don't follow them on Twitter/etc other people do and things are constantly getting shared.
> I don't sign up for alerts on Google and I think we've had this conversation before.
> As far as the show goes, I have no plans on watching Part 2. I saw enough of Part 1 to know CJ's as fake as the rest of that family.
> 
> (and that's exactly why I cancelled the subscription.....)



If you're on Twitter maybe you're following the wrong people and its time to do a cleanse lol. I don't really see a whole lot of CJ mostly Khloe and Kim but I'm not looking for her or clicking every link either. I don't really see just Jared or Us Weekly post stories/pap strolls with her that often. Some sites are more obsessed with them than others like Radar and Daily Mail. The fascination around her has died down since the season ended but I expect to pick back up when season 2 premieres so prepare yourself.


----------



## CeeJay

There's going to be a Season 2? [not that I watched Season 1, but I thought the ratings were pretty horrific?]


----------



## Hobbsy

queen said:


> In your world but not mine.



Not in mine either. You got something swinging between your legs.....you are male.


----------



## mrsinsyder

queen said:


> In your world but not mine.





Hobbsy said:


> Not in mine either. You got something swinging between your legs.....you are male.



Third.


----------



## Jikena

I thought we already said multiple times that debates about transgenderism was not ok ?


----------



## Sassys

queen said:


> It's a matter of perception.  I don't think I said he/she had no right I believe I called it selfish.  I don't know if you are a parent, but it has been my observation, that what we do as parents, impacts our adult children's lives, just as what they do impacts us.  In my youth you were born male or female and lived your life that way with a few exceptions.  Now it is different and I understand that.  It does not change my thinking that Bruce Jenner is a very selfish and self centered person, who lived a full life as a male and now is living life as a female.  Jenner can have all the surgery he/she wants and be legally declared a woman but that does not change the dna or the fact a penis is still in place.   People on here are constantly going on about his former wife and her off spring and how they have mutilated themselves with procedures.  I see no difference.  Being a part of that family taught him it was profitable to be a female showing skin.



So, when you become a parent you're not allowed to have your own happiness . Especially when your children are grown?


----------



## mrsinsyder

Jikena said:


> I thought we already said multiple times that debates about transgenderism was not ok ?


Well... I haven't read all 381 pages of this thread, but if so, I apologize.


----------



## Bag*Snob

I still have a hard time accepting Pluto is no longer a planet.


----------



## guccimamma

Bag*Snob said:


> I still have a hard time accepting Pluto is no longer a planet.





me too.


----------



## Jikena

mrsinsyder said:


> Well... I haven't read all 381 pages of this thread, but if so, I apologize.



Yeah the moderator had to ask the posters to stop debating on the subject because there were transphobic comments.


----------



## CeeJay

Bag*Snob said:


> I still have a hard time accepting Pluto is no longer a planet.


----------



## White Orchid

Respect.  I had a Mother like you.  The most selfless woman I knew.  I see it now with my friends who have kids, putting their needs ahead of their own.  I guess you have to be a Mother to understand and though I'm not one myself (except to my cat lol) I have the utmost admiration for the selflessness that only a Mother can possess.



queen said:


> I admit it is hard for me to see the pictures and attention Jenner is given.  Being the same age as Jenner I have to wonder how he/she could put this on the family and friends.  I know he said he did not want to die not having lived as a woman.  Being near the end of my life I don't want to do anything to cause problems for others.  I think daily of things I could have done different if not being so concerned with my own feelings.  I feel in my heart it is a selfish thing to do just to wear some clothing and being fawned on.  At this stage of life it seems his fashion desires could have been satisfied in his personal time.  She has said the romantic side of life is not even on her radar so it seems it is the fashionista desire that fueled this.  The additional fact that he said if Kris had been more accepting it would not have even come about.  I can not imagine the pain and confusion of accepting one's husband or father had changed genders.


----------



## tweegy

Bag*Snob said:


> I still have a hard time accepting Pluto is no longer a planet.




Lol!!!! 


Could you imagine the toll??? All those years thinking it was a planet? When it actually wasn't... I heard the other planets aren't taking it so well


----------



## addisonshopper

Bag*Snob said:


> I still have a hard time accepting Pluto is no longer a planet.



wait what ?  I have never heard that-- when did this discovery come to light.. now my day is ruined


----------



## bag-mania

Bag*Snob said:


> I still have a hard time accepting Pluto is no longer a planet.




That debate is still ongoing! There are scientists arguing to have Pluto's status as a planet restored. 

It's another example of how impossible it is to get everyone to agree on anything.


----------



## Chloe_chick999

Issmom said:


> I can't advocate sniping.  Its not 'nice', if you will.  In fact, if I intend to wait and bid at the end of an auction (and I don't have any programs that will let me snipe), I still lob in a 'courtesy' bid at the start -- sorta register my interest.
> 
> When I've been watching and bidding, sniping really pisses me off.
> 
> Wrong post


----------



## Chloe_chick999

Hobbsy said:


> Legally I think it's called a man. I'm not transphobic....I'm transfake.



Fakephobic? Lol


----------



## Hobbsy

Chloe_chick999 said:


> Fakephobic? Lol



Yes!! That's the word,  thanks!


----------



## Chloe_chick999

Hobbsy said:


> Yes!! That's the word,  thanks!



You bet, I'm right there with you.


----------



## Hobbsy

chloe_chick999 said:


> you bet, i'm right there with you.



&#128522;&#128077;&#128077;&#128077;


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> It's a matter of perception.  I don't think I said he/she had no right I believe I called it selfish.  I don't know if you are a parent, but it has been my observation, that what we do as parents, impacts our adult children's lives, just as what they do impacts us.  In my youth you were born male or female and lived your life that way with a few exceptions.  Now it is different and I understand that.  It does not change my thinking that Bruce Jenner is a very selfish and self centered person, who lived a full life as a male and now is living life as a female.  Jenner can have all the surgery he/she wants and be legally declared a woman but that does not change the dna or the fact a penis is still in place.   People on here are constantly going on about his former wife and her off spring and how they have mutilated themselves with procedures.  I see no difference.  Being a part of that family taught him it was profitable to be a female showing skin.



*Couldn't agree with you more!*



mrsinsyder said:


> Third.



*Fourth.*



Jikena said:


> Yeah the moderator had to ask the posters to stop debating on the subject because there were transphobic comments.



*Transphobic comments or as some call it, super sensitive. Political correctness at it's best. *


----------



## prettyprincess

+1000


----------



## chowlover2

CeeJay said:


> There's going to be a Season 2? [not that I watched Season 1, but I thought the ratings were pretty horrific?]




Ratings dropped every episode, no idea why it was renewed. I guess E! Is desperate for programming. Or they feel sorry for CJ as she seems to have no life or friends when not filming.


----------



## Encore Hermes

The ratings were low but what does E have to replace it?


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...enners-woman-of-the-year-award-speech-w157719

*Rose McGowan Slams Caitlyn Jenner's Woman of the Year Award Acceptance Speech*

Rose McGowan was not a fan of Caitlyn Jenner's Woman of the Year acceptance speech. The Charmed actress, 42, slammed the former Olympian for stating at Glamour's ceremony on Monday, Nov. 9, that the "hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear."

"Caitlyn Jenner you do not understand what being a woman is about at all. You want to be a woman and stand with us- well learn us. We are more than deciding what to wear. We are more than the stereotypes foisted upon us by people like you. You're a woman now? Well fking learn that we have had a VERY different experience than your life of male privilege," McGowan wrote in a Facebook post on Monday, Nov. 16.

She continued: "Woman of the year? No, not until you wake up and join the fight. Being a woman comes with a lot of baggage. The weight of unequal history. You'd do well to learn it. You'd do well to wake up. Woman of the year? Not by a long fking shot."

McGowan also posted several graphic memes that featured Jenner's quote. Some of the photos included a woman getting raped, being followed home late at night, and a woman in the hospital after giving birth. One that particularly stood out was O.J. Simpson's late wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, covered in bruises. (Jenner's ex-wife, Kris Jenner, was best friends with the model-actress.)

As previously reported, Jenner, 66 - who announced she was transgender back in February - was recognized at the ceremony alongside Reese Witherspoon and Victoria Beckham. McGowan may have been put off by the I Am Cait star's comment, but, overall, she appreciates how brave Jenner has been the past couple of months.

"Let me amend this by saying I'm happy for what she's doing visibility wise for the trans community, and I'm happy she's living her truth, but comments like hers have consequences for other women," Rowan added via Facebook. "How we are perceived, what our values are, and leads to more stereotyping. If you know you are going to be speaking to media about being a woman, maybe come to understand our struggles."


----------



## Sophie-Rose

Rose just comes across as mean-spirited! Jenner was clearly joking, there was no need to take offense! Saying Jenner (or any transgender woman) 'do not understand what being a woman is' is just mean!!!


----------



## dangerouscurves

I'd say I stay in the middle. For genuine transsexuals pre or post-op I'd say they're women but with Bruce, I'm suspicious. She doesn't seem to want to have a full-transition. She never plans to have a genital reconstruction surgery, nor to train her voice and speech to be more feminine. She's probably a pervert, like, she gets sexual satisfaction by dressing up and looking like a woman. I'm really, really suspicious.


----------



## Eva1991

bag*snob said:


> i still have a hard time accepting pluto is no longer a planet.


----------



## Eva1991

Sophie-Rose said:


> Rose just comes across as mean-spirited! Jenner was clearly joking, there was no need to take offense! Saying Jenner (or any transgender woman) 'do not understand what being a woman is' is just mean!!!



I support Jenner's journey but I agree with Rose. When Caitlyn said that the hardest part of being a woman is not knowing what to wear I was stunned. It didn't come across as a joke, at least not to me... This statment was a mistake on Caitlyn's part, IMO.


----------



## Lejic

dangerouscurves said:


> I'd say I stay in the middle. For genuine transsexuals pre or post-op I'd say they're women but with Bruce, I'm suspicious. She doesn't seem to want to have a full-transition. She never plans to have a genital reconstruction surgery, nor to train her voice and speech to be more feminine. She's probably a pervert, like, she gets sexual satisfaction by dressing up and looking like a woman. I'm really, really suspicious.




You brought up a point I think of whenever I see her on TV; she sounds incredibly manly. I know I shouldn't judge, many natural-born women have deep voices, but if I close my eyes, she sounds 100% manly to me, expressions etc included. It's kind of odd to me.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Eva1991 said:


> I support Jenner's journey but I agree with Rose. When Caitlyn said that the hardest part of being a woman is not knowing what to wear I was stunned. It didn't come across as a joke, at least not to me... This statment was a mistake on Caitlyn's part, IMO.



I don't think it was a mistake though, she tried to make it a joke. But failed. she's made similar remarks before.


----------



## DC-Cutie

Lejic said:


> You brought up a point I think of whenever I see her on TV; she sounds incredibly manly. I know I shouldn't judge, many natural-born women have deep voices, but if I close my eyes, she sounds 100% manly to me, expressions etc included. It's kind of odd to me.



Well because she's a man. Honestly I still see her as Bruce, just with a jacked up face, weave and kitten heels


----------



## White Orchid

DC-Cutie said:


> Well because she's a man. Honestly I still see her as Bruce, just with a jacked up face, weave and kitten heels



+1 (and arthritic knees)


----------



## queen

DC-Cutie said:


> Well because she's a man. Honestly I still see her as Bruce, just with a jacked up face, weave and kitten heels


Here's the thing.  I don't think anyone denies that Jenner has expressed a desire to present as a female.  So much so that she has put herself thru multiple medical procedures that probably were painful.  I acknowledge this.  I do not think she has had the genitalia surgery?  What I do not acknowledge is that she is a woman.  Jenner is a person who desires to live as a woman and I don't have any say in that and would put nothing in the way even if I could.  Some people get a little disgruntled when others try to tell them something is a fact just because they want it to be.  Fact is Jenner was born male and lived that way for 65 years.  Fact is Jenner is now desirous of living as a female.  Fact is she can do that.  Fact is that does not make Jenner a woman nor a female but a transgendered person living a gender/sex she was not born into.  No problem as long as the facts remain clear and not cloudy by some people who think you can wish and want and make history disappear.  Were Jenner just living a quiet life doing her own thing none of this would be discussed.  Jenner, however, has made the declaration she is a woman and taken to the media to push it.  I live in the real world where death and taxes are a reality and most people are born either male or female.  I do acknowledge there are those born with ambiguous gender/sex and I do not think Jenner was one of those.  I have no campaign against Jenner just will not allow myself to be forced into changing the truth to match someone's desire to be something other than what they actually are.  I do not agree that the way she handled it was good for her family but I am just an observer and have no place it that.  Yes I have called her selfish and self centered and I still believe that to be true but that is my opinion and means nothing other than what I think.  People who witnessed Jenner's public life as a man find it hard to call her a woman.

eta:  I am aware a judge has declared her to be woman/female however that is stated.  That is his/her legal opinion not a medical one that I am aware of.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> If you're on Twitter maybe you're following the wrong people and its time to do a cleanse lol. I don't really see a whole lot of CJ mostly Khloe and Kim but I'm not looking for her or clicking every link either. I don't really see just Jared or Us Weekly post stories/pap strolls with her that often. Some sites are more obsessed with them than others like Radar and Daily Mail. The fascination around her has died down since the season ended but I expect to pick back up when season 2 premieres so prepare yourself.



Just a little FYI for you. 
I use Twitter for *political reasons* and this is the first thing I saw when I logged on this morning. Was I looking for something on CJ?? H*ll no, but this is just an example of how it's nearly impossible to avoid the subject so for you to assume that I have goggle alerts set and I deliberately go looking for gossip about B/C couldn't be further from the truth.

*IrritatedWoman&#8482;*     &#8207;@*irritatedwoman*  5m5 minutes ago                                                CBS Blocked Bruce Jenner from Attending ********ic Primary Debate - Breitbart http://ow.ly/UKMgn 

Oh, here's another one....The subject was ***** making the cover of GQ for Men of the Year and guess who else is included?!? That's right, your one and only, CJ. Guess it's not everyone that can become Man AND Woman of the Year.








     pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/664843524198789120/875z2Hv7_bigger.jpg     *GQ Magazine   Verified account *     &#8207;@*GQMagazine*  

                 Presenting a special 20th anniversary edition of GQ's Men of the Year issue&#8212;starring @******* http://gq.mn/BYWOjRi 

*Cranky Gordon*     &#8207;@*CrankyGordon*  12m12 minutes ago 
Cranky Gordon Retweeted GQ Magazine
   Spoiler, Caitlin Jenner and Cecile Richards are also on the GQ Men of the Year list. 



https://t.co/EBupUREfou


----------



## Coach Lover Too

White Orchid said:


> +1 (and arthritic knees)



...and linebacker hands.


----------



## kemilia

White Orchid said:


> +1 (and arthritic knees)


 
Is that what's going on (arthritis)?


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just a little FYI for you.
> I use Twitter for *political reasons* and this is the first thing I saw when I logged on this morning. Was I looking for something on CJ?? H*ll no, but this is just an example of how it's nearly impossible to avoid the subject so for you to assume that I have goggle alerts set and I deliberately go looking for gossip about B/C couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> *IrritatedWoman*     &#8207;@*irritatedwoman*  5m5 minutes ago                                                CBS Blocked Bruce Jenner from Attending ********ic Primary Debate - Breitbart http://ow.ly/UKMgn



Coming in here everyday is checking for her though. You may not do it on Twitter but you do it here. No one forces you to click this thread or the links you post. You've basically said in the past you follow them because you're bored and their drama is entertaining which why I find it odd for you to turn around and complain them being in your face. You're doing it to yourself most avoid the celebrities that annoy them.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Coming in here everyday is checking for her though. You may not do it on Twitter but you do it here. No one forces you to click this thread or the links you post. You've basically said in the past you follow them because you're bored and their drama is entertaining which why I find it odd for you to turn around and complain them being in your face. You're doing it to yourself most avoid the celebrities that annoy them.



You're missing the point. There's a difference. I *choose* to come here and by doing so I know what I'm going to find. I don't go to Yahoo, or Google, or Twitter/etc hoping to see the K's or CJ, nor do I watch ESPN hoping to see CJ getting a courage award.


----------



## GaitreeS

queen said:


> Here's the thing.  I don't think anyone denies that Jenner has expressed a desire to present as a female.  So much so that she has put herself thru multiple medical procedures that probably were painful.  I acknowledge this.  I do not think she has had the genitalia surgery?  What I do not acknowledge is that she is a woman.  Jenner is a person who desires to live as a woman and I don't have any say in that and would put nothing in the way even if I could.  Some people get a little disgruntled when others try to tell them something is a fact just because they want it to be.  Fact is Jenner was born male and lived that way for 65 years.  Fact is Jenner is now desirous of living as a female.  Fact is she can do that.  Fact is that does not make Jenner a woman nor a female but a transgendered person living a gender/sex she was not born into.  No problem as long as the facts remain clear and not cloudy by some people who think you can wish and want and make history disappear.  Were Jenner just living a quiet life doing her own thing none of this would be discussed.  Jenner, however, has made the declaration she is a woman and taken to the media to push it.  I live in the real world where death and taxes are a reality and most people are born either male or female.  I do acknowledge there are those born with ambiguous gender/sex and I do not think Jenner was one of those.  I have no campaign against Jenner just will not allow myself to be forced into changing the truth to match someone's desire to be something other than what they actually are.  I do not agree that the way she handled it was good for her family but I am just an observer and have no place it that.  Yes I have called her selfish and self centered and I still believe that to be true but that is my opinion and means nothing other than what I think.  People who witnessed Jenner's public life as a man find it hard to call her a woman.
> 
> eta:  I am aware a judge has declared her to be woman/female however that is stated.  That is his/her legal opinion not a medical one that I am aware of.


Well said!!!


----------



## DesigningStyle

DC-Cutie said:


> Well because she's a man. Honestly I still see her as Bruce, just with a jacked up face, weave and kitten heels



Agreed.  And, I mean no disrespect.  



kemilia said:


> Is that what's going on (arthritis)?



Arthritis does make knees look knobby...but I think having man knees has a lot to do with it.


----------



## RueMonge

I came back today hoping to talk more about Pluto. Way more interesting.


----------



## *spoiled*

Sophie-Rose said:


> Rose just comes across as mean-spirited! Jenner was clearly joking, there was no need to take offense! Saying Jenner (or any transgender woman) 'do not understand what being a woman is' is just mean!!!



well he doesn't


----------



## redney

Rose is spot on!


----------



## L etoile

Sasha2012 said:


> http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...enners-woman-of-the-year-award-speech-w157719
> 
> *Rose McGowan Slams Caitlyn Jenner's Woman of the Year Award Acceptance Speech*
> 
> Rose McGowan was not a fan of Caitlyn Jenner's Woman of the Year acceptance speech. The Charmed actress, 42, slammed the former Olympian for stating at Glamour's ceremony on Monday, Nov. 9, that the "hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear."
> 
> "Caitlyn Jenner you do not understand what being a woman is about at all. You want to be a woman and stand with us- well learn us. We are more than deciding what to wear. We are more than the stereotypes foisted upon us by people like you. You're a woman now? Well fking learn that we have had a VERY different experience than your life of male privilege," McGowan wrote in a Facebook post on Monday, Nov. 16.
> 
> She continued: "Woman of the year? No, not until you wake up and join the fight. Being a woman comes with a lot of baggage. The weight of unequal history. You'd do well to learn it. You'd do well to wake up. Woman of the year? Not by a long fking shot."
> 
> McGowan also posted several graphic memes that featured Jenner's quote. Some of the photos included a woman getting raped, being followed home late at night, and a woman in the hospital after giving birth. One that particularly stood out was O.J. Simpson's late wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, covered in bruises. (Jenner's ex-wife, Kris Jenner, was best friends with the model-actress.)
> 
> As previously reported, Jenner, 66 - who announced she was transgender back in February - was recognized at the ceremony alongside Reese Witherspoon and Victoria Beckham. McGowan may have been put off by the I Am Cait star's comment, but, overall, she appreciates how brave Jenner has been the past couple of months.
> 
> "Let me amend this by saying I'm happy for what she's doing visibility wise for the trans community, and I'm happy she's living her truth, but comments like hers have consequences for other women," Rowan added via Facebook. "How we are perceived, what our values are, and leads to more stereotyping. If you know you are going to be speaking to media about being a woman, maybe come to understand our struggles."


Rose is right. We've all been saying this for a long time. If Caitlyn was always a woman, how did she feel about medaling in a sport that women aren't allowed to compete in? How did she feel going to male-only country clubs and participating in male-only activities for so long? Caitlyn could do so much more for females and the trans community. She's as much of a representative for the trans community as Kim Kardashian is for the feminist community. They're two peas in a pod and I don't mean that as a compliment. How about speaking up about the gender pay gap, Caitlyn?


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> You're missing the point. There's a difference. I *choose* to come here and by doing so I know what I'm going to find. I don't go to Yahoo, or Google, or Twitter/etc hoping to see the K's or CJ, nor do I watch ESPN hoping to see CJ getting a courage award.



I have a hard time believing those real news accounts that you follow to keep up with politics write about CJ soooo much that you can't go through your timeline without seeing her name. Most of them have limited their celebrity coverage in general. I don't think we need to keep going on and on about this  so I'll drop it


----------



## ForeverYoung87

L etoile said:


> Rose is right. How about speaking up about the gender pay gap, Caitlyn?



I think Rose is right but I also think CJ was joking....and it's a tired joke she keeps making. If she speaks about wage inequality all I can picture is people saying "what do you know you haven't been a woman for a yr or not a real woman."


----------



## bag-mania

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I think Rose is right but I also think CJ was joking....and it's a tired joke she keeps making. If she speaks about wage inequality all I can picture is people saying "what do you know you haven't been a woman for a yr or not a real woman."



True, Caitlyn hasn't really experienced anything that is decidedly female. It's not like medical issues can be realistically discussed, she's not going to suddenly be more concerned about getting breast cancer. Now prostate cancer on the other hand...


----------



## solange

Bag*Snob said:


> I still have a hard time accepting Pluto is no longer a planet.



It's a planet again


----------



## Hobbsy

Sophie-Rose said:


> Rose just comes across as mean-spirited! Jenner was clearly joking, there was no need to take offense! Saying Jenner (or any transgender woman) 'do not understand what being a woman is' is just mean!!!



I disagree.  How could anyone who has not lived as a woman know what it's like to be a woman?! There is no possible way they could. None. Zero. Nadda.


----------



## redney

solange said:


> It's a planet again



It has a dwarf planet designation currently.


----------



## Hobbsy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Just a little FYI for you.
> I use Twitter for *political reasons* and this is the first thing I saw when I logged on this morning. Was I looking for something on CJ?? H*ll no, but this is just an example of how it's nearly impossible to avoid the subject so for you to assume that I have goggle alerts set and I deliberately go looking for gossip about B/C couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> *IrritatedWoman*     &#8207;@*irritatedwoman*  5m5 minutes ago                                                CBS Blocked Bruce Jenner from Attending ********ic Primary Debate - Breitbart http://ow.ly/UKMgn
> 
> Oh, here's another one....The subject was ***** making the cover of GQ for Men of the Year and guess who else is included?!? That's right, your one and only, CJ. Guess it's not everyone that can become Man AND Woman of the Year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/664843524198789120/875z2Hv7_bigger.jpg     *GQ Magazine   Verified account *     &#8207;@*GQMagazine*
> 
> Presenting a special 20th anniversary edition of GQ's Men of the Year issuestarring @******* http://gq.mn/BYWOjRi
> 
> *Cranky Gordon*     &#8207;@*CrankyGordon*  12m12 minutes ago
> Cranky Gordon Retweeted GQ Magazine
> Spoiler, Caitlin Jenner and Cecile Richards are also on the GQ Men of the Year list.
> 
> 
> 
> https://t.co/EBupUREfou



Lmao @ man AND woman of the year! He's a freaking super hero!


----------



## Hobbsy

RueMonge said:


> I came back today hoping to talk more about Pluto. Way more interesting.



This isn't the Planet thread! &#128540;


----------



## usmcwifey

I have a legit question...and maybe it's been answered but I missed it....if she's transgender (formerly a he) does that mean he's attracted to men? For someone who has supposedly been transgender his whole life (but struggled with coming to terms?) he sure did marry often and had lots of children...didn't Kris say that he had a healthy sex drive and that they enjoyed it so she never really suspected much?


----------



## redney

usmcwifey said:


> I have a legit question...and maybe it's been answered but I missed it....if she's transgender (formerly a he) does that mean he's attracted to men? For someone who has supposedly been transgender his whole life (but struggled with coming to terms?) he sure did marry often and had lots of children...didn't Kris say that he had a healthy sex drive and that they enjoyed it so she never really suspected much?



Don't know where CJ stands today but around the time of her coming out as transgender, she did not disclose or discuss an answer to that question at that point.

Oh and don't believe a word PMK says. She's a big liar who is trying to paint herself as the poor, unaware ex-spouse. She knew from the get go. Supposedly CJ had breasts due to hormone medication he was on when they met back in the late 80s/early 90s. She also knew about him cross-dressing when they were married. I'm not saying cross-dressing = transgender but with the previous hormone use it's not like it smacked her out of the blue.


----------



## solange

redney said:


> It has a dwarf planet designation currently.



Fickle scientists!


----------



## queen

redney said:


> Don't know where CJ stands today but around the time of her coming out as transgender, she did not disclose or discuss an answer to that question at that point.
> 
> Oh and don't believe a word PMK says. She's a big liar who is trying to paint herself as the poor, unaware ex-spouse. She knew from the get go. Supposedly CJ had breasts due to hormone medication he was on when they met back in the late 80s/early 90s. She also knew about him cross-dressing when they were married. I'm not saying cross-dressing = transgender but with the previous hormone use it's not like it smacked her out of the blue.


I thought Jenner stated in the DS interview he had no idea about what would happen romantically but that he had always been attracted to women in the past.  That is how I remember it but maybe that is incorrect.  About what KJ knew about BJ I have no idea but if she really thought he had developed breasts from female hormones I would have thought she would have been hesitant to have children with him.


----------



## tannfran

addisonshopper said:


> wait what ?  I have never heard that-- when did this discovery come to light.. now my day is ruined




Me too!!!


----------



## redney

solange said:


> Fickle scientists!


----------



## guccimamma

i nominate pluto as planet of the year.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Plutoid doesnt sound right





Disney


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> I have a hard time believing those real news accounts that you follow to keep up with politics write about CJ soooo much that you can't go through your timeline without seeing her name. Most of them have limited their celebrity coverage in general. I don't think we need to keep going on and on about this  so I'll drop it



Yea let's drop it, because I really don't care whether you believe it or not.


----------



## redney

guccimamma said:


> i nominate pluto as planet of the year.


----------



## Hobbsy

I nominate Caitlyn Jenner as Planet of the year.


----------



## Eva1991

redney said:


> Don't know where CJ stands today but around the time of her coming out as transgender, she did not disclose or discuss an answer to that question at that point.
> 
> Oh and don't believe a word PMK says. She's a big liar who is trying to paint herself as the poor, unaware ex-spouse. She knew from the get go. Supposedly CJ had breasts due to hormone medication he was on when they met back in the late 80s/early 90s. She also knew about him cross-dressing when they were married. I'm not saying cross-dressing = transgender but with the previous hormone use it's not like it smacked her out of the blue.




Was Caitlyn using hormones when she was with Kris? If she had used them in the past, before they met and stopped after a while, then maybe the results weren't so obvious to Kris. Older men can develop small breasts if they quit exercising or gain weight.


----------



## tweegy

Hobbsy said:


> I nominate Caitlyn Jenner as Planet of the year.



You she was a planet 65yrs of her life hunny - how shes a stah!


----------



## qudz104

tweegy said:


> You she was a planet 65yrs of her life hunny - how shes a stah!




Best comment in this thread!!!!!


----------



## redney

Eva1991 said:


> Was Caitlyn using hormones when she was with Kris? If she had used them in the past, before they met and stopped after a while, then maybe the results weren't so obvious to Kris. Older men can develop small breasts if they quit exercising or gain weight.



BJ was only 41 when they met and 42 when they got married, so not that old and he wasn't out of shape to have developed the male breast look. I read somewhere that BJ was on hormone treatments in the 80s and stopped in 1990, the same year he met Kris. He said he had B cups by then. I'm using BJ as that's how he was known then.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Hobbsy said:


> Lmao @ man AND woman of the year! He's a freaking super hero!



Pretty sure Caitlyn as GQ man of the year was a tacky joke made by a conservative acc. It also suggested president of Planned Parenthood was also on the list and mocked ***** being on it. GQ isn't that dumb .... or are they?


----------



## creighbaby

queen said:


> All I can say is wow.  I can hardly compare the actions of the two.  A police officer who lost her live trying to save others and a fashionista.  I am tired of the pc correctness  that allows us to reward people who have done nothing but satisfy their own feelings.  I have no problem acknowledging I have no control over anybody's feelings but I do not have to reward them.  Do what you have to but everybody else does not have to agree.




I don't see it as "pc correctness" but the cult of celebrity and people who are famous, rich and seemingly powerful for absolutely no bloody reason. I read the daily fail daily and there are at least 4-5 articles on the k-trashians daily. I don't click on them, but it is impossible not to see the headlines. 

I am extremely insulted that CJ keeps peddling the ignorant stereotype that the hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear. She pulled that sh*t at the espys too. 

I kind of get it as to why CJ is wearing items that aren't necessarily age appropriate. She is now getting to freely wear the clothes she wanted to wear for decades. Hopefully, she will get a stylist or come to a realization that there are outfits that she can wear that are flattering and sexy at the same time. She should take a look at Helen Mirren and Jane Fonda for dressing ideas. Those women are older than her and their sense of style is brilliant.

I am not a fan but i hope she does find true happiness. Everyone deserves to be happy and she isn't hurting anyone. (Well, I don't think she is doing the trans community any favors.)


----------



## Hobbsy

tweegy said:


> You she was a planet 65yrs of her life hunny - how shes a stah!



Lol!!! I love it! &#128514;


----------



## queen

creighbaby said:


> I don't see it as "pc correctness" but the cult of celebrity and people who are famous, rich and seemingly powerful for absolutely no bloody reason. I read the daily fail daily and there are at least 4-5 articles on the k-trashians daily. I don't click on them, but it is impossible not to see the headlines.
> 
> I am extremely insulted that CJ keeps peddling the ignorant stereotype that the hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear. She pulled that sh*t at the espys too.
> 
> I kind of get it as to why CJ is wearing items that aren't necessarily age appropriate. She is now getting to freely wear the clothes she wanted to wear for decades. Hopefully, she will get a stylist or come to a realization that there are outfits that she can wear that are flattering and sexy at the same time. She should take a look at Helen Mirren and Jane Fonda for dressing ideas. Those women are older than her and their sense of style is brilliant.
> 
> I am not a fan but i hope she does find true happiness. Everyone deserves to be happy and she isn't hurting anyone. (Well, I don't think she is doing the trans community any favors.)


I refer to the fact that she is transgender and therefore a protected class.  Folks being called transphobic because they do not crown her.  There is room for more than one opinion.  That is what I was referring to as pcness.

We will have to agree to disagree about the clothes.  If you can believe her she has been cross dressing for years.


----------



## solange

tweegy said:


> You she was a planet 65yrs of her life hunny - how shes a stah!



Clearly, she can be nominated for both.


----------



## solange

solange said:


> Clearly, she can be nominated for both.



I think we should do that for Pluto, too.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

ForeverYoung87 said:


> Pretty sure Caitlyn as GQ man of the year was a tacky joke made by a conservative acc. It also suggested president of Planned Parenthood was also on the list and mocked ***** being on it. GQ isn't that dumb .... or are they?



Unless I misunderstood, I think it was men who had made the cover of GQ for the last 20 years and BJ was included in that. Pretty sure politics didn't have anything to do with it other than the fact that ***** is on the cover this month.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Coach Lover Too said:


> Unless I misunderstood, I think it was men who had made the cover of GQ for the last 20 years and BJ was included in that. Pretty sure politics didn't have anything to do with it other than the fact that ***** is on the cover this month.



You said she was named both man and woman of the year. She hasn't she's not even mentioned on the cover.... or they just haven't  announced her yet.  I didn't read his tweet as having any actual inside info just snarky since ***** on the cover annoyed him. He calls himself a conservative and they aren't known for being supportive of the 3 mentioned.


----------



## dangerouscurves

solange said:


> It's a planet again




Lol! First it was planet and it wasn't and it is again? I guess physics is not an exact science....


----------



## Charles

guccimamma said:


> i nominate pluto as planet of the year.



This is an outrage!!  Pluto has no idea what it means to be a real planet.  Oh, the worst part about being a planet is deciding on what gravitational pull to adjust in order to avoid meteorites?  Honey!  I've been hit by more meteorites than you'll dodge in a lifetime, and I'm still orbiting strong!  THAT'S what being a planet is all about.  Now, why don't you have a seat with your dwarf @$$!


----------



## krissa

Deletd.


----------



## bag-mania




----------



## redney

bag-mania said:


>


----------



## Grace123

bag-mania said:


>




Hahahahaha [emoji108]&#127995;[emoji106]


----------



## mindy621_xoxo

I must be late to the party. Someone fill me in here--- what does Pluto have to do with Caitlyn?! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## redney

mindy621_xoxo said:


> I must be late to the party. Someone fill me in here--- what does Pluto have to do with Caitlyn?! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



Pluto and its status is more interesting to talk about than Caitlyn!


----------



## Jayne1

redney said:


> Pluto and its status is more interesting to talk about than Caitlyn!


----------



## queen

mindy621_xoxo said:


> I must be late to the party. Someone fill me in here--- what does Pluto have to do with Caitlyn?! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


I see it as Cait's supporters trying to hush those who aren't enthralled with her.  But there is room for all opinions.  So it's all good.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

queen said:


> I see it as Cait's supporters trying to hush those who aren't enthralled with her.  But there is room for all opinions.  So it's all good.



I kept waiting for someone to bring up Uranus since we're on the BJ/CJ thread, but yea, your comment makes more sense.


----------



## queen

Coach Lover Too said:


> I kept waiting for someone to bring up Uranus since we're on the BJ/CJ thread, but yea, your comment makes more sense.


You gave me a chuckle for the evening.  I wasn't finding a lot of amusement in the Pluto storyline but I see some humor in this.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> I kept waiting for someone to bring up Uranus since we're on the BJ/CJ thread, but yea, your comment makes more sense.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Why is it called Uranus? Is it too late to change its name?


----------



## guccimamma

dangerouscurves said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Why is it called Uranus? Is it too late to change its name?



no, it has to stay that way. think of all the fun that would be taken away from middle school students, if the name was altered.


----------



## redney

dangerouscurves said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Why is it called Uranus? Is it too late to change its name?



Greek God and probably!


----------



## V0N1B2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I kept waiting for someone to bring up Uranus since we're on the BJ/CJ thread, but yea, your comment makes more sense.


Leave my anus out of this please 


guccimamma said:


> no, it has to stay that way. think of all the fun that would be taken away from middle school students, if the name was altered.


I thought it was cute when they (whoever they are), just up and changed the pronunciation one day. From UrAnus to UraNus.

Luckily for Caitlyn, that's one body part she didn't need to change.
A$$holes know no gender.


----------



## Charles

queen said:


> I see it as Cait's supporters trying to hush those who aren't enthralled with her.  But there is room for all opinions.  So it's all good.



Internets r serious bizness!


----------



## queen

Charles said:


> Internets r serious bizness!


So you tell me, but that information is only to be given on a need to know basis.  Just remember to not tell that to the general public.  The powers that be won't like it.


----------



## Charles

Too late.  They found me!  Call for he.......sr;gafnh
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


----------



## queen

Charles said:


> Too late.  They found me!  Call for he.......sr;gafnh
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


It's a sad day on tpf.  RIP Charles.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

V0N1B2 said:


> Leave my anus out of this please
> 
> I thought it was cute when they (whoever they are), just up and changed the pronunciation one day. From UrAnus to UraNus.
> 
> Luckily for Caitlyn, that's one body part she didn't need to change.
> A$$holes know no gender.


----------



## Sasha2012

The holidays are a time for putting our differences aside and making peace.

And the Kardashians certainly took that to heart for Thanksgiving.

Kourtney's ex partner Scott Disick - who recently left rehab - was in attendance at the family's dinner, along with Kris Jenner's former spouse Caitlyn.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-s-grateful-blended-family.html#ixzz3sfl3abLz


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Oh wow, Kayne and Corey lookin' extremely happy! lol


----------



## queen

If one tried to sell this picture of a family who was worthy of watching them live their lives on tv I doubt producers would buy it.  Caitlyn is especially disturbing looking to me and she has her own show.  SMH!!


----------



## morgan20

Who is the random on the far left?


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner enjoyed some girl time on Friday after seemingly also stopping by the hair salon.

The TV star showed off her glossy brunette locks with the notable addition of some bangs.

The 66-year-old debuted the new look as she exited a movie theater with her good friend Ronda Kamihira in Los Angeles. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-movies-BFF-Ronda-Kamihira.html#ixzz3sqvkwBbZ


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

Those jeans  Her sweater is cute though.


----------



## Sasha2012

Thanksgiving is a time to come together with family.

And Caitlyn Jenner appeared to be happy to be reunited with her second ex-wife Linda Thompson for the Thanksgiving holiday.

Actress Linda, 65, shared a photo of the former couple on Instagram on Friday.

'This looks like a blondes only Thanksgiving...ok...one brunette allowed!' she captioned the image of herself with Caitlyn, Brandon Jenner's wife Leah Jenner and friend Kathrin Nicholson.

'Always welcome in my home!' Linda wrote, adding the hashtag '#familyties.'

The group were all smiles as they caught up for the holiday, with 65-year-old Caitlyn wearing a pink tie neck blouse.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...inda-Thompson-Thanksgiving.html#ixzz3sr3C6ZNY


----------



## Jayne1

Isn't it odd that neither has the same face or body anymore?  I wonder if Linda misses her real face or if she's happy to see it go.  She went to such an extreme. She used to have a slight cleft in her chin, even that's gone.


----------



## bag-princess

Jayne1 said:


> Isn't it odd that neither has the same face or body anymore?  I wonder if Linda misses her real face or if she's happy to see it go.  She went to such an extreme. She used to have a slight cleft in her chin, even that's gone.





he kinda looks like her now to me!


----------



## White Orchid

They're both horrific to look at now.  In her heyday, especially when she was with Elvis, she was quite attractive, but now...she's all plastic and morphing into that Jocelyn woman.

Edit: Ginger Alden was the attractive one.  Not Linda.


----------



## lizmil

bag-princess said:


> he kinda looks like her now to me!




I thought so too, and the song "To all the girls I've loved before"  popped into my head. And  narcissistic Caitlyn is the girl who was/is loved the most.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

My god Bruce was hot! I'd forgotten just how much.  wow.


----------



## ChanelMommy

White Orchid said:


> They're both horrific to look at now.  In her heyday, especially when she was with Elvis, she was quite attractive, but now...she's all plastic and morphing into that Jocelyn woman.
> 
> Edit: Ginger Alden was the attractive one.  Not Linda.



agree.


----------



## guccimamma

why is pmk wearing a flight jumpsuit?


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner cut a chic figure as she headed out sporting a sleek new blow-dry which showed off her recently acquired bangs. 

The 66-year-old donned a smart white trouser suit, as she headed out to the launch of her daughter Kylie's sold-out lipstick line in West Hollywood on Monday.

But she may now be may now be considering a trip to the podiatrist after showing off unsightly dry feet in her strappy sandals. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...unch-Kylie-s-lipstick-line.html#ixzz3t5QlqzzI


----------



## Hobbsy

A smart white trouser suit? Where? Those feet look perfect in those dirty, broken down sandals. Wth??


----------



## bag-princess

Hobbsy said:


> A smart white trouser suit? Where? Those feet look perfect in those *dirty, broken down sandals.* Wth??





lawd!!! where did those old things come from????


----------



## Hobbsy

bag-princess said:


> lawd!!! where did those old things come from????



Seriously,  I'm sure she could afford a pedicure and new shoes?!


----------



## guccimamma

bag-princess said:


> lawd!!! where did those old things come from????



from 1987 i'm guessing. 

she should really stick with athletic shoes.


----------



## berrydiva

Tragical.


----------



## bag-princess

berrydiva said:


> Tragical.







guccimamma said:


> from 1987 i'm guessing.
> 
> *she should really stick with athletic shoes*.




yes she should!  or flats at least!





Hobbsy said:


> Seriously, * I'm sure she could afford a pedicure and new shoes*?!



for real!!  and since that is all those girls in her family know how to do i'm shocked she hasn't had a few by now!


----------



## Jikena

I don't really like bangs on her. :/


----------



## Hobbsy

I think I like the bangs.


----------



## Jayne1

It's a wig, the bangs come off when she gets home. lol


----------



## michie

Those feet! And, she THINKS it's hard being a woman!?!? Try being the pedicurist who has to scrub those scaly a$$ feet!


----------



## tomz_grl

michie said:


> Those feet! And, she THINKS it's hard being a woman!?!? Try being the pedicurist who has to scrub those scaly a$$ feet!



Can you imagine the undercover conversation going on when those feet are placed in front of someone? It's the Seinfeld episode with Elaine being banned all over again.


----------



## tweegy

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner enjoyed some girl time on Friday after seemingly also stopping by the hair salon.
> 
> The TV star showed off her glossy brunette locks with the notable addition of some bangs.
> 
> The 66-year-old debuted the new look as she exited a movie theater with her good friend Ronda Kamihira in Los Angeles.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-movies-BFF-Ronda-Kamihira.html#ixzz3sqvkwBbZ


 Do you go to the salon for a cut on a wig? Im asking cause I really don't know.



bag-princess said:


> lawd!!! where did those old things come from????



Maybe the shoes were from her undercover days, cause I really cant understand how they look like that so quick


----------



## qudz104

I feel like the bangs look age appropriate on cj


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Caitlyn is starting to look more like Bruce.


----------



## pinkfeet

Jayne1 said:


> Isn't it odd that neither has the same face or body anymore?  I wonder if Linda misses her real face or if she's happy to see it go.  She went to such an extreme. She used to have a slight cleft in her chin, even that's gone.



She was very pretty, no wonder Brody is so good looking! 

Eh, how old is she now? You can't be young forever so its either look a little alien, or saggy wrinkly old. Id rather be alien than massive wrinkles, saggy jaw etc. 

Either way she's is not going to look beautiful like she was.


----------



## ChanelMommy

berrydiva said:


> Tragical.


----------



## White Orchid

You'd rather look like an alien?  Um...OK.  :ninja:



pinkfeet said:


> She was very pretty, no wonder Brody is so good looking!
> 
> Eh, how old is she now? You can't be young forever so its either look a little alien, or saggy wrinkly old. Id rather be alien than massive wrinkles, saggy jaw etc.
> 
> Either way she's is not going to look beautiful like she was.


----------



## White Orchid

Undercover days 

You make it sound like he works for the KGB!!!  :greengrin:



tweegy said:


> Do you go to the salon for a cut on a wig? Im asking cause I really don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the shoes were from her undercover days, cause I really cant understand how they look like that so quick


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

I like her hair.


----------



## VickyB

Jayne1 said:


> Isn't it odd that neither has the same face or body anymore?  I wonder if Linda misses her real face or if she's happy to see it go.  She went to such an extreme. She used to have a slight cleft in her chin, even that's gone.



Wasn't Linda one of David Foster's ex wives or am I confusing her with somebody else?


----------



## Jayne1

VickyB said:


> Wasn't Linda one of David Foster's ex wives or am I confusing her with somebody else?



Yes, she was.


----------



## Jayne1

pinkfeet said:


> She was very pretty, no wonder Brody is so good looking!
> 
> Eh, how old is she now? You can't be young forever so its either look a little alien, or saggy wrinkly old. Id rather be alien than massive wrinkles, saggy jaw etc.
> 
> Either way she's is not going to look beautiful like she was.



I looked it up she was born in 1950, so she's 65.

She just didn't get rid of some wrinkles and saggy jaw, she has a whole new face her mother wouldn't recognize.


----------



## chowlover2

michie said:


> Those feet! And, she THINKS it's hard being a woman!?!? Try being the pedicurist who has to scrub those scaly a$$ feet!



" dead "


----------



## bag-princess

White Orchid said:


> Undercover days
> 
> You make it sound like he works for the KGB!!!  :greengrin:





the things these men do in order to hide what is really going on in their life (especially down-low!)  would make the KGB ask for tips how to stay undercover!!
http://forum.purseblog.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

pinkfeet said:


> She was very pretty, no wonder Brody is so good looking!
> 
> Eh, how old is she now? You can't be young forever so its either look a little alien, or saggy wrinkly old. Id rather be alien than massive wrinkles, saggy jaw etc.
> 
> Either way she's is not going to look beautiful like she was.



You don't think older women can be beautiful?


----------



## Docjeun

michie said:


> Those feet! And, she THINKS it's hard being a woman!?!? Try being the pedicurist who has to scrub those scaly a$$ feet!


----------



## tweegy

White Orchid said:


> Undercover days
> 
> You make it sound like he works for the KGB!!!  :greengrin:



LOL!!! Sorry I should have said 'moonlighting'


----------



## berrydiva

tweegy said:


> LOL!!! Sorry I should have said 'moonlighting'



I used to love that show!


----------



## dangerouscurves

berrydiva said:


> I used to love that show!




Lol! Me too. Cybill Shephard and Bruce Willis were good!


----------



## tweegy

berrydiva said:


> I used to love that show!



Me too!


----------



## Encore Hermes

*Five people who were in the Hummer that was part of the fatal crash triggered by Caitlyn Jenner have filed a lawsuit, *claiming they were injured both physically and emotionally.
In the lawsuit, obtained  by TMZ, 5 members of the Wolf-Millesi family claim they were all cruising along in their 2006 black H2 Hummer when they felt the thunderous impact of the Lexus that Jenner had just struck. The Lexus driver died instantly.
The lawsuit claims Jenner acted recklessly, driving at an unsafe speed for road conditions. As we reported, the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. concluded Jenner was not paying attention and failed to brake in time ... which caused her to strike the Lexus, which ricocheted into the Hummer. 


According to the suit, *one person in the car suffered a severe cervical fracture that left her permanently disabled. Another claims severe nerve damage. A third claims blunt force trauma ... but the most serious is there was a one-month-old newborn in the Hummer who was "not responding at the scene." *The baby was taken to UCLA Medical Center and survived.
The suit, filed by Brian Panish, says, "The emotional effects of being involved in a collision that has taken the life of another has caused tremendous distress and suffering." 
The suit does not specify a damage amount.


http://www.tmz.com/2015/12/04/caitlyn-jenner-lawsuit-car-crash/

In other Cait news, she is filming her show today with Scott Disick, they were buying a Christmas tree.


----------



## chowlover2

Encore Hermes said:


> *Five people who were in the Hummer that was part of the fatal crash triggered by Caitlyn Jenner have filed a lawsuit, *claiming they were injured both physically and emotionally.
> In the lawsuit, obtained  by TMZ, 5 members of the Wolf-Millesi family claim they were all cruising along in their 2006 black H2 Hummer when they felt the thunderous impact of the Lexus that Jenner had just struck. The Lexus driver died instantly.
> The lawsuit claims Jenner acted recklessly, driving at an unsafe speed for road conditions. As we reported, the L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. concluded Jenner was not paying attention and failed to brake in time ... which caused her to strike the Lexus, which ricocheted into the Hummer.
> 
> 
> According to the suit, *one person in the car suffered a severe cervical fracture that left her permanently disabled. Another claims severe nerve damage. A third claims blunt force trauma ... but the most serious is there was a one-month-old newborn in the Hummer who was "not responding at the scene." *The baby was taken to UCLA Medical Center and survived.
> The suit, filed by Brian Panish, says, "The emotional effects of being involved in a collision that has taken the life of another has caused tremendous distress and suffering."
> The suit does not specify a damage amount.
> 
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2015/12/04/caitlyn-jenner-lawsuit-car-crash/
> 
> In other Cait news, she is filming her show today with Scott Disick, they were buying a Christmas tree.



I hope they take old CJ for all she's got. I was in a not as horrific car accident at 22 and paid for it all my life with back issues and finally major surgery. This poor family has these issues now, it will only get worse in time. Paying attention while you drive is serious business. If paps are a problem, hire a driver, CJ could afford it.


----------



## Jayne1

I said from the beginning, the hummer being pushed into a car and inadvertently causing a death of someone would be very traumatic.


----------



## SakuraSakura

I'm glad she's, at the time he's, being held accountable for such a horrible accident.


----------



## Grace123

chowlover2 said:


> I hope they take old CJ for all she's got. I was in a not as horrific car accident at 22 and paid for it all my life with back issues and finally major surgery. This poor family has these issues now, it will only get worse in time. Paying attention while you drive is serious business. If paps are a problem, hire a driver, CJ could afford it.


----------



## Encore Hermes

Filming with Candis 















Daily mail


----------



## mindy621_xoxo

I like that dress


----------



## White Orchid

Oh my Lord.  I can't even figure if it's male or female midlife-crisis.  Such an horrific sight to behold.


----------



## ChanelMommy

White Orchid said:


> Oh my Lord.  I can't even figure if it's male or female midlife-crisis.  Such an horrific sight to behold.



agree


----------



## pukasonqo

i like the dress...


----------



## guccimamma

White Orchid said:


> Oh my Lord.  I can't even figure if it's male or female midlife-crisis.  Such an horrific sight to behold.



you sum it all up.


----------



## Jayne1

I don't know it's just not working.


----------



## chowlover2

White Orchid said:


> Oh my Lord.  I can't even figure if it's male or female midlife-crisis.  Such an horrific sight to behold.




Agreed!


----------



## labelwhore04

Cant she wear things that are more age-appropriate?


----------



## Jikena

labelwhore04 said:


> Cant she wear things that are more age-appropriate?



And body appropriate. She doesn't have the knees nor legs to wear that kind of short skirts. It just shows her flaws. I remember some outfits where she looked great. I think one of them was a suit -pants- and it fit her nicely. But this ?


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

I like that outfit.


----------



## DesigningStyle

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> I like that outfit.



Do you like it on her?


----------



## chowlover2

The outfit was the last thing I noticed. First the man hands, second the bony knees, then the big feet. The dress is cute, not body appropriate though.


----------



## guccimamma

chowlover2 said:


> The outfit was the last thing I noticed. First the man hands, second the bony knees, then the big feet. The dress is cute, not body appropriate though.



everytime i see him in a skirt, i imagine my dad. he is about the same age, tall with knobby knees..and loves to golf.


----------



## Jayne1

chowlover2 said:


> The outfit was the last thing I noticed. First the man hands, second the bony knees, then the big feet. The dress is cute, not body appropriate though.



And her sandals are always too small!


----------



## White Orchid

Jayne1 said:


> And her sandals are always too small!



To be expected no, when you were a male?


----------



## chowlover2

CJ could have shoes made that fit properly, she has the $$$


----------



## pukasonqo

DesigningStyle said:


> Do you like it on her?




i just like the dress
she hasn't got the best legs but the dress is something i would wear


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

DesigningStyle said:


> Do you like it on her?



Yeah I think it's a good look for her.


----------



## VickyB

I was watching the KUWTK epi where Kim is getting ready for the Espi award show. Kim was , as usually, only focused on how she looked and bemoaning to Kris. Kris had THE BEST LINE (or something close to this)" How do you think I feel? My ex husband is about to be on stage wearing a dress".


----------



## berrydiva

labelwhore04 said:


> Cant she wear things that are more age-appropriate?



What's not age appropriate about that dress?


It looks like something I see lots of well put together mature businessy ladies wear to the office all the time.


----------



## usmcwifey

berrydiva said:


> What's not age appropriate about that dress?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like something I see lots of well put together mature businessy ladies wear to the office all the time.




Maybe because she's so tall it comes off as looking short...and we all know no one wants to see what's underneath [emoji6]... It's not too bad tbh


----------



## labelwhore04

berrydiva said:


> What's not age appropriate about that dress?
> 
> 
> It looks like something I see lots of well put together mature businessy ladies wear to the office all the time.



Its a nice dress but lengthwise its soo short.


----------



## Hobbsy

berrydiva said:


> What's not age appropriate about that dress?
> 
> 
> It looks like something I see lots of well put together mature businessy ladies wear to the office all the time.



It is? I never see 60+ wearing a dress half way up to their genitals!


----------



## berrydiva

usmcwifey said:


> Maybe because she's so tall it comes off as looking short...and we all know no one wants to see what's underneath [emoji6]... It's not too bad tbh


----------



## berrydiva

labelwhore04 said:


> Its a nice dress but lengthwise its soo short.



Maybe the wrong fit on Caitlyn...because of her height.


----------



## berrydiva

Hobbsy said:


> It is? I never see 60+ wearing a dress half way up to their genitals!



Yes. I see lots of stylish older women wearing dresses that look exactly like that one. It's an exaggeration to say it's at Caitlyn's genitals but at 6", it's going to appear shorter than it should. I also have no issue with a woman wearing something that looks good on her as I don't fully subscribe to the "age appropriate" paradigm.


----------



## Hobbsy

berrydiva said:


> Yes. I see lots of stylish older women wearing dresses that look exactly like that one. It's an exaggeration to say it's at Caitlyn's genitals but at 6", it's going to appear shorter. I also have no issue with a woman wearing something that looks good on her as I don't fully subscribe to the "age appropriate" paradigm.



Just half way I said. I like the dress. I do feel it's not age appropriate.


----------



## berrydiva

Hobbsy said:


> Just half way I said. I like the dress. I do feel it's not age appropriate.



Ok. That's fine...many people find that when women hit certain ages, there are things they should and shouldn't wear...and i don't totally disagree at times. It really wasn't a debate...I just like to know what people define as age appropriate at times (and sometimes that POV changes as you age)


----------



## Hobbsy

berrydiva said:


> Ok. That's fine...many people find that when women hit certain ages, there are things they should and shouldn't wear...and i don't totally disagree at times. It really wasn't a debate...I just like to know what people define as age appropriate at times (and sometimes that POV changes as you age)



I'm not trying to debate either. There are some things I don't think need changed due to age, hair for example. The older you get they say women shouldn't have long hair, I don't agree with that. I think I have an issue with shortness of dress, skirt, shorts.....etc, because I knew a very nice woman who as she aged her attire didn't and people who didn't know her thought she was someone she wasnt, and that always kind of bothered me.


----------



## berrydiva

Hobbsy said:


> I'm not trying to debate either. There are some things I don't think need changed due to age, hair for example. The older you get they say women shouldn't have long hair, I don't agree with that. I think I have an issue with shortness of dress, skirt, shorts.....etc, because I knew a very nice woman who as she aged her attire didn't and people who didn't know her thought she was someone she wasnt, and that always kind of bothered me.



Personally, I think the idea and concept of age appropriate is something men created and we, as women, unintentionally/subconsciously propagate.  There's definitely a time and place to wear certain things but if your legs look like Tina Turner's at 70, rock something above the knee....no need to not be sexy.  It's too bad others thought your friend was someone she wasn't simply by virtue of growing older and continuing to wear something that makes her happy. I would've put those folks in their place if it was my friend and read them for filth...I'm sure I could've found something tacky about their outfit/style to give them a good dragging. Lol


----------



## Hobbsy

berrydiva said:


> Personally, I think the idea and concept of age appropriate is something men created and we, as women, unintentionally/subconsciously propagate.  There's definitely a time and place to wear certain things but if your legs look like Tina Turner's at 70, rock something above the knee....no need to not be sexy.  It's too bad others thought your friend was someone she wasn't simply by virtue of growing older and continuing to wear something that makes her happy. I would've put those folks in their place if it was my friend and read them for filth...I'm sure I could've found something tacky about their outfit/style to give them a good dragging. Lol



It was kind if like being caught between a rock and a hard spot; I loved her for who she was, although she didn't always wear "appropriate" clothes to anything,  even in times when it was needed. &#128518;


----------



## guccimamma

well, i 'm just glad she isn't time magazine person of the year.

although, it was a very strange assortment of contestants.


----------



## chowlover2

guccimamma said:


> well, i 'm just glad she isn't time magazine person of the year.
> 
> although, it was a very strange assortment of contestants.




Yes!


----------



## tweegy

What a crock of crocking crock.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...er-faces-backlash-comments-Time-Magazine.html


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Was she entirely wrong though? I think she talks/jokes about the superficial aspect of it all too much and for a motivational speaker she doesn't express herself all that great. But I don't believe she's not aware that others don't have the means to get all the surgeries she's had. And looking the part does help people be more accepting of them. Look at this thread. There are multiple comments since the beginning that aren't accepting of her and refusing to acknowledge her as Caitlyn because she still looks like a "dude in a dress" to them.


----------



## Encore Hermes

tweegy said:


> What a crock of crocking crock.....
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...er-faces-backlash-comments-Time-Magazine.html



+1

From the article,  what she had said

_She explained: 'One thing that has always been important for me, and it may seem very self-absorbed or whatever, is . . . your presentation of who you are.' 
*'I think its much easier for a trans woman or a trans man who authentically, kind of, looks and plays the role.' * 

*Cait Jenner admits wanting to be treated like a 'real woman'* 
The Keeping Up with the Kardashians star continued: *'I try to take [my presentation] seriously.*  I think it puts people at ease. If youre out there and, to be honest with you, if you look like a man in a dress, it makes people uncomfortable.'_


----------



## pukasonqo

she certainly fails in the "being intelligent about the subject" stakes


----------



## chowlover2

I'm still laughing about CJ being called the " Donald ***** " of the trans community...


----------



## Sasha2012

She recently revealed that it's important for her to present herself well - especially when there are paparazzi around.

And Caitlyn Jenner, who says she regularly takes fashion tips from her daughter Kim, showed off another stylish look on Saturday when she spent a low-key evening at a movie theatre in Calabasas, California.

The 66-year-old donned earth tones and sported a maroon leather skirt with loose camel-coloured sweater.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...encil-skirt-winter-woolies.html#ixzz3uMR4AWe6


----------



## Jayne1

Everything's covered! But still


----------



## bisousx

That must be the most uncomfortable movie outfit I've ever seen...


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> Everything's covered! But still




CJ's legs look hairy, but I believe they are age spots. The knees still need to be covered up.


----------



## ByeKitty

The age spots and the knees didn't matter when she was a man it seems...


----------



## AEGIS

she is getting ROASTED for her comments by the lgbt community
she is not a good spokeswoman
she acts like the privileged man she always was


----------



## berrydiva

AEGIS said:


> she is getting ROASTED for her comments by the lgbt community
> 
> she is not a good spokeswoman
> 
> she acts like the privileged man she always was




What were the comments?


----------



## berrydiva

ByeKitty said:


> The age spots and the knees didn't matter when she was a man it seems...




Funny how that works right?


----------



## bag-princess

*Caitlyn Jenner: Barbara Walters' Most Fascinating Person of 2015*









Caitlyn Jenner, who became a  symbol of hope for the transgender community, was chosen as Barbara  Walters most fascinating person of 2015.
Formerly  known as Bruce Jenner, this year Caitlyn announced that she had  transitioned from being a man to a woman, first undergoing several  surgical procedures, then legally changing her name.
Jenner  was once hailed as the greatest athlete in the world after winning the  1976 Olympic decathlon and later became a motivational speaker and a  reality TV star with one of television's most famous families, the  Kardashians.




On Jenners own E! reality  series, I Am Cait, she showed herself working hard to look glamorous,  hanging out with a group of new transgender friends and sharing  emotional moments with her mother and ex-wife Kris Jenner.
Caitlyn  Jenner also became a target of criticism, first for being selected to  receive the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs in July (ESPN is  owned by Disney, ABCs parent company), and then because some said her  rapid, glamorous, publicity-drenched transition did not represent the  realities of life for most transgender people, who suffer  discrimination, bullying, poverty and physical attacks.
But  Jenners celebrity has helped launch a national discussion about  transgender rights. She has become a champion for the transgender  community, raising awareness and advocating for acceptance.




*Caitlyn Jenner transformed society, Walters said,* and thats why she is  joining the ranks of Jackie Onassis, Princess Diana, Hillary ******* and  Amal Clooney as the most fascinating person of the year.










https://gma.yahoo.com/caitlyn-jenne...on-2015-035623207--abc-news-celebrities.html#


----------



## BagOuttaHell

haha.

Bull.


----------



## berrydiva

Caitlyn Jenner has not transformed society.


----------



## bag-princess

as someone said - Babs is getting older and more senile bless her heart!  "transformed society"!!   that is just too much.


----------



## redney

*headdesk*


----------



## ForeverYoung87

Not surprised. It was Amal last year and Barbara claimed marrying George was her greatest accomplishment despite the fact that Amal has worked on several cases protecting women and freedom of speech. Barbara lost me when she kept defending Woody Allen but would slam others who did the same thing he did


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Yeah....Baabwaa also said she finds Bradley Cooper "screwable" in this list. I mean....is it even relevant anymore?

Babs gave it to Caitlyn as a PR move. She's annoyed Diane Sawyer got "the interview" with Caitlyn IMO Baabwaa is all about the celebs, not truly fascinating people.


----------



## GTOFan

bag-princess said:


> as someone said - Babs is getting older and more senile bless her heart!  "transformed society"!!   that is just too much.



good one!


----------



## pukasonqo

caitlyn jenner, a legend in her own lunchtime


----------



## coconutsboston

pukasonqo said:


> caitlyn jenner, a legend in her own lunchtime


Yes!


----------



## coconutsboston

FreeSpirit71 said:


> Yeah....Baabwaa also said she finds Bradley Cooper "screwable" in this list. I mean....is it even relevant anymore?
> 
> Babs gave it to Caitlyn as a PR move. She's annoyed Diane Sawyer got "the interview" with Caitlyn IMO Baabwaa is all about the celebs, not truly fascinating people.


This, exactly.


----------



## _jssaa

Came across a cover of star magazine saying Caitlyn wants to be Bruce again. Anyone know if it's fake?


----------



## chowlover2

_jssaa said:


> Came across a cover of star magazine saying Caitlyn wants to be Bruce again. Anyone know if it's fake?



That would not surprise me in the least!


----------



## FreeSpirit71

You guys are taking tips from Star Magazine? Come on now...lol


----------



## AEGIS

well i think caitlyn has sparked a LOT of conversation this year
this is the kind of thing she should win

now should she have won the Authur Ashe award or Woman of the year? not imo.


----------



## Jayne1

_jssaa said:


> Came across a cover of star magazine saying Caitlyn wants to be Bruce again. Anyone know if it's fake?



Yes, very fake, IMO.


----------



## Encore Hermes

I don't put much stock in Star
2009


----------



## creighbaby

bag-princess said:


> *Caitlyn Jenner: Barbara Walters' Most Fascinating Person of 2015*
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner transformed society, Walters said,* and thats why she is  joining the ranks of Jackie Onassis, Princess Diana, Hillary ******* and  Amal Clooney as the most fascinating person of the year.
> 
> https://gma.yahoo.com/caitlyn-jenne...on-2015-035623207--abc-news-celebrities.html#




I never thought I would lose respect for Walters as a journalist. WTF have Jenner and Clooney done to "transform society."


----------



## pukasonqo

creighbaby said:


> I never thought I would lose respect for Walters as a journalist. WTF have Jenner and Clooney done to "transform society."




playing devil's advocate here, amal clooney is a human rights lawyer and human rights activist
caitlyn has advanced and fought for the rights of caitlyn jenner who is the most important person in this world of ours


----------



## leeann

pukasonqo said:


> playing devil's advocate here, amal clooney is a human rights lawyer and human rights activist
> caitlyn has advanced and fought for the rights of caitlyn jenner who is the most important person in this world of ours




lolololol


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner turned up the glamour at a special screening of transgender comedy Tangerine in Los Angeles.

The I Am Cait reality star proved she's every inch the Hollywood glamour puss in a revealing black jumpsuit with lace sleeves and a plunging neckline.

Wearing a shoulder-length brunette wig with feathered bangs, the beaming 66-year-old accessorized with a simple gold neck chain and a gold name necklace.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...nsgender-Tangerine-actress.html#ixzz3wQqxvJja


----------



## Chloe_chick999

I'm just going to say the guy in the last pic looks like Keanu Reeves.


----------



## redney

"Glamour puss"??


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

pukasonqo said:


> playing devil's advocate here, amal clooney is a human rights lawyer and human rights activist
> caitlyn has advanced and fought for the rights of caitlyn jenner who is the most important person in this world of ours



I agree about Amal Clooney though. Caitlyn on the other hand.....


----------



## White Orchid

Ugh, ugh, ugh.  But I will give him some credit. His wigs are a lot more natural-looking than Kim's.


----------



## limom

AEGIS said:


> well i think caitlyn has sparked a LOT of conversation this year
> this is the kind of thing she should win
> 
> now should she have won the Authur Ashe award or Woman of the year? not imo.



Once again, women get the short end of the stick lol.
I am all for transgendered people to live their lives whichever ways they want but I do not think that Caytlin is a woman.
I guess it is the new now.
I expect that I will have to call myself a ciswoman within 10 years.
What funny time.


----------



## ByeKitty

limom said:


> Once again, women get the short end of the stick lol.
> I am all for transgendered people to live their lives whichever ways they want but I do not think that Caytlin is a woman.
> I guess it is the new now.
> I expect that I will have to call myself a ciswoman within 10 years.
> What funny time.



Don't be ridiculous


----------



## mindy621_xoxo

I like that wig on her.


----------



## chowlover2

CJ looks so much better covered up.


----------



## caitlin1214

I'm going to say exactly what I said when there was that item that Glamour magazine gave Caitlyn Jenner the Woman of the Year award and a widower of a first responder to 9/11 gave his late wife's back. 

He said he didn't like the idea of his late wife sharing that title with some man. (His words, not mine.) 

His transphobia wasn't necessary, but he's not wrong: what exactly did Caitlyn Jenner do? 

I can't imagine how it would feel to be trapped in your own body and I applaud the courage it takes to finally come out and say, "This is how I feel the most comfortable living, so here I am". 


That said, I'm sure there are so many other transgender women out there who deserve the award more than Caitlyn Jenner does.


----------



## chowlover2

caitlin1214 said:


> I'm going to say exactly what I said when there was that item that Glamour magazine gave Caitlyn Jenner the Woman of the Year award and a widower of a first responder to 9/11 gave his late wife's back.
> 
> 
> 
> He said he didn't like the idea of his late wife sharing that title with some man. (His words, not mine.)
> 
> 
> 
> His transphobia wasn't necessary, but he's not wrong: what exactly did Caitlyn Jenner do?
> 
> 
> 
> I can't imagine how it would feel to be trapped in your own body and I applaud the courage it takes to finally have the courage to come out and say, "This is how I feel the most comfortable living, so here I am".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That said, I'm sure there are so many other transgender women out there who deserve the award more than Caitlyn Jenner does.




Yes, like Laverne Cox who actually talks the talk and walks the walk. 

I would have had much more respect for CJ if he had come out when he was transitioning either after winning the Olympics, same time frame as Renee Richards. Would have been very gutsy and bold. Or right before he married Kris K, when he added boobage and did facial electrolysis. Instead he waits til all the other transgender people have done the hard work, and decides to come out. Right as it is becoming socially acceptable.


----------



## caitlin1214

chowlover2 said:


> Yes, like Laverne Cox who actually talks the talk and walks the walk.
> 
> I would have had much more respect for CJ if he had come out when he was transitioning either after winning the Olympics, same time frame as Renee Richards. Would have been very gutsy and bold. Or right before he married Kris K, when he added boobage and did facial electrolysis. Instead he waits til all the other transgender people have done the hard work, and decides to come out. Right as it is becoming socially acceptable.



Yes to this. 

She needs to realize that being a woman isn't just all about makeup and heels and gowns, and that seems to be all she's about. 

There's an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry finds out a fellow comedian converted to Judaism and he suspects it's just for the jokes. Someone asked Jerry if that offended him as a Jewish man, and Jerry responds with, "No, it offends me as a comedian!" 


She does not represent the transgender community, but she's very publicly claiming she is. 


And her being transgender doesn't automatically shield her from criticism or comments. (Like I said in the Kim thread, an idiot is still an idiot regardless of whether or not they're pregnant.)  So Ricky Gervais was not wrong in mentioning her in his Golden Globes monologue.


On Caitlyn Jenner: 'What a year she's had. She's become a role model for trans people everywhere, showing great bravery and destroying stereotypes. She didn't do a lot for women drivers. You can't have everything, can you, not at the same time.'

She can't have it both ways: she can't be out there and in public and at the same time expect nobody to talk about her negatively or bring up some unpleasant things. When she publicly still living as Bruce, Bruce killed someone.


The emperor is not wearing any clothes. Bruce Jenner killed someone and wasn't punished for it. It's not just going to be swept under the rug.


If anyone has the right to be offended by Gervais's joke, it would be the friends and loved ones of the woman that Bruce Jenner killed, but I don't believe Caitlyn Jenner has a horse in this race, so to speak.


----------



## JessicaKate89

> His transphobia wasn't necessary, but he's not wrong: what exactly did Caitlyn Jenner do?




As an American Olympic hero, father and step father to 'famous' children, married to kris Jenner, on a popular reality tv show, literally had the balls to come out and say I am a woman and will be living my life as such and there is nothing wrong with that. She has saved lives by showing other transgender kids, teenagers and adults that it's ok to embrace who you are and be yourself. She as a public figure draws attention to the plight and discrimination that transgenders face and she helps fight it.


----------



## ForeverYoung87

No one cared who won the Glamour award the previous years and no one cares who tops  Barbara's lists because they're meaningless and fluff. I highly doubt most can name previous recipients without the help of Google. All anyone commented on when it came to Glamour were people's red carpet outfit. People only care now and have this faux outrage because it's Caitlyn. They'll go back to not caring again at the end of the year when someone else gets the award.


----------



## JessicaKate89

ForeverYoung87 said:


> No one cared who won the Glamour award the previous years and no one cares who tops  Barbara's lists because they're meaningless and fluff. I highly doubt most can name previous recipients without the help of Google. All anyone commented on when it came to Glamour were people's red carpet outfit. People only care now and have this faux outrage because it's Caitlyn. They'll go back to not caring again at the end of the year when someone else gets the award.




Pretty much


----------



## TC1

I saw on TMZ that a great number of Caitlyn's speaking engagements were cancelled due to low ticket sales...where as Bruce's would frequently sell out. Interesting.


----------



## MY2CENT

Bruce waited this long in life to say he was unhappy as a man, i find him to be a disgrace, and  a gross ugly wannabe... My2cents


----------



## limom

TC1 said:


> I saw on TMZ that a great number of Caitlyn's speaking engagements were cancelled due to low ticket sales...where as Bruce's would frequently sell out. Interesting.



Well he dissed the Gays, he dissed women and he is a Conservative **********s!
Who is left to support him??????


----------



## pukasonqo

limom said:


> Well he dissed the Gays, he dissed women and he is a Conservative **********s!
> 
> Who is left to support him??????




donald ***** supporters?
sorry but caitlynn has done for the LGBT as much as minnie mouse has done for the rights of mice


----------



## limom

pukasonqo said:


> donald ***** supporters?
> sorry but caitlynn has done for the LGBT as much as minnie mouse has done for the rights of mice



I agree.
It is too bad that he did not shred his azzholery in the process of becoming Caitlyn.
Doing his docu series was a big mistake IMO.
He was shockingly unlikeable....
On the positive, I saw Candace on a talk show and I am glad that she got something out,of this mess.
Well, well deserved, IMHO.


----------



## DC-Cutie

limom said:


> Well he dissed the Gays, he dissed women and he is a Conservative **********s!
> Who is left to support him??????



 'friends' from the reality show...


----------



## berrydiva

TC1 said:


> I saw on TMZ that a great number of Caitlyn's speaking engagements were cancelled due to low ticket sales...where as Bruce's would frequently sell out. Interesting.



Not shocked. Caitlyn is no friend to the LGBT community, seems to think little of women, and seems to only be interested in being the controversial Kardashian.


----------



## JessicaKate89

limom said:


> I agree.
> 
> It is too bad that he did not shred his azzholery in the process of becoming Caitlyn.
> 
> Doing his docu series was a big mistake IMO.
> 
> He was shockingly unlikeable....
> 
> On the positive, I saw Candace on a talk show and I am glad that she got something out,of this mess.
> 
> Well, well deserved, IMHO.




Why do you refer to Caitlyn as a he and candace as a she? Just curious.


----------



## limom

JessicaKate89 said:


> Why do you refer to Caitlyn as a he and candace as a she? Just curious.



My bad. I am just so used to Caitlyn as Bruce. 
I have not yet adjusted.....
Plus I think that she is still a dic$wad.


----------



## ChanelMommy

berrydiva said:


> Not shocked. Caitlyn is no friend to the LGBT community, seems to think little of women, and seems to only be interested in being the controversial Kardashian.



Agree


----------



## krissa

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/14/caitlyn-jenner-dating-men/

Caitlyn Jenner is done dating women. 

In the season 2 trailer for "I Am Cait" she flat out says it ... "To be honest I don't see myself dating women in the future." 

Up to this point, Cait's been very coy about her dating life -- and she's been on the fence about whether she supports same sex marriages. So maybe she's tipping her hand by deciding to date men.

One other option? It's all BS ... since this is a promo and nobody gives promo like a Jenner/Kardashian.


----------



## berrydiva

I can't see Caitlyn dating men....the idea of being a woman seems to be a novelty to her. Caitlyn seems just as tortured in this body as Bruce did in his body.


----------



## absolutpink

berrydiva said:


> I can't see Caitlyn dating men....the idea of being a woman seems to be a novelty to her. Caitlyn seems just as tortured in this body as Bruce did in his body.



I agree. I keep hearing about how she's now being her "authentic self", but I don't know, she seems like she's acting to me, like she's just playing a role.


----------



## Wildflower22

Is it common for a trans woman to start being attracted to men when as a man, he liked women?


----------



## berrydiva

Wildflower22 said:


> Is it common for a trans woman to start being attracted to men when as a man, he liked women?




It can go either way....I don't know if there's a "this happens in the typical scenario" thing. Some may find more freedom to date men who they may have been attracted to before the transition but perhaps struggled with being labeled "gay". Some may continue to date males or females because that's where the attraction remains. Some may do the bi thing. Others may become asexual altogether. 

I just don't think Caitlyn, in particular, is interested in being a woman beyond the surface so my opinion is that the idea of dating a man is something she just can't entertain.


----------



## Wildflower22

berrydiva said:


> It can go either way....I don't know if there's a "this happens in the typical scenario" thing. Some may find more freedom to date men who they may have been attracted to before the transition but perhaps struggled with being labeled "gay". Some may continue to date males or females because that's where the attraction remains. Some may do the bi thing. Others may become asexual altogether.
> 
> I just don't think Caitlyn, in particular, is interested in being a woman beyond the surface so my opinion is that the idea of dating a man is something she just can't entertain.




Hmm. I was wondering because I didn't know if this was something new for Caitlyn or just another part of her wanting to feel like a woman.


----------



## Encore Hermes

berrydiva said:


> I can't see Caitlyn dating men....the idea of being a woman seems to be a novelty to her. *Caitlyn seems just as tortured in this body as Bruce did in his body*.



+1 Absolutely agree.


----------



## DesigningStyle

berrydiva said:


> It can go either way....I don't know if there's a "this happens in the typical scenario" thing. Some may find more freedom to date men who they may have been attracted to before the transition but perhaps struggled with being labeled "gay". Some may continue to date males or females because that's where the attraction remains. Some may do the bi thing. Others may become asexual altogether.
> 
> I just don't think Caitlyn, in particular, is interested in being a woman beyond the surface so my opinion is that the idea of dating a man is something she just can't entertain.




Do you think after taking hormones she may naturally become sexually attracted to men?


----------



## coconutsboston

krissa said:


> http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/14/caitlyn-jenner-dating-men/
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner is done dating women.
> 
> In the season 2 trailer for "I Am Cait" she flat out says it ... "To be honest I don't see myself dating women in the future."
> 
> Up to this point, Cait's been very coy about her dating life -- and she's been on the fence about whether she supports same sex marriages. So maybe she's tipping her hand by deciding to date men.
> 
> One other option? It's all BS ... since this is a promo and nobody gives promo like a Jenner/Kardashian.


She should stick to loving her old favorite: _herself._


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

absolutpink said:


> I agree. I keep hearing about how she's now being her "authentic self", but I don't know, she seems like she's acting to me, like she's just playing a role.



This is agreeable.


----------



## dangerouscurves

DesigningStyle said:


> Do you think after taking hormones she may naturally become sexually attracted to men?




Hormones don't change your sexual orientation. I'm just guessing here: either Caitlyn is a lesbian-transexual or she's bi-sexual transsexual. After having so many children from different wives I don't think she's straight-transexual.


----------



## DesigningStyle

dangerouscurves said:


> Hormones don't change your sexual orientation. I'm just guessing here: either Caitlyn is a lesbian-transexual or she's bi-sexual transsexual. After having so many children from different wives I don't think she's straight-transexual.



I see.  I am confused.


----------



## DC-Cutie

he could date Corey


----------



## pukasonqo

DC-Cutie said:


> he could date Corey




or kanye
and pretend she is the seventh sister


----------



## berrydiva

DesigningStyle said:


> Do you think after taking hormones she may naturally become sexually attracted to men?



I don't believe hormones change your sexual orientation. At least I didn't witness that being the case with the 2 friends I have who transitioned.


----------



## berrydiva

dangerouscurves said:


> Hormones don't change your sexual orientation. I'm just guessing here: either Caitlyn is a lesbian-transexual or she's bi-sexual transsexual. After having so many children from different wives I don't think she's straight-transexual.



Agreed.


----------



## krissa

Caitlyn Jenner breaks silence on Ricky Gervais' Golden Globes jokes

Caitlyn Jenner has something to say to Ricky Gervais: Shed like to replace him.

At her first major press conference with reporters on Thursday to kick off the second season of E! networks I Am Cait, Jenner was asked to respond to Gervais crack at the Golden Globes about how she didnt do a lot for women drivers.

On Ricky, I think what Im gonna do is call the Golden Globes and see if they need a new host for next year, Jenner said at the Television Critics Tour in Pasadena, California. And well solve that problem.

RELATED: The Biggest Moments of the 2016 Golden Globes

During Sundays awards ceremony, Gervais made several jokes at Jenners expense. Ive changed, he began, before deadnaming the former Olympian. Not as much as Bruce Jenner, obviously. Now Caitlyn Jenner, of course. What a year shes had. She became a role model for trans people everywhere, showing great bravery in breaking down barriers and destroying stereotypes.

Gervais then mocked Jenners car accident in February, which led to the death of another driver. Almost immediately, Gervais got blow-back via social media, so he reacted with a Tweet of his own.

Suggesting a joke about Caitlin [sic] Jenner is automatically transphobic is like suggesting a joke about Bill Cosby is automatically racist, he wrote.

Jenner  who was joined on the dais by other transgender women on her show like Candis Cayne and Chandi Moore  said she doesnt like it when the media labels her as a spokesperson for her community. Im only a spokesman for me and my story, she said. I have so much to learn in this community.

RELATED: Golden Globes 2016: Best and Worst Dressed

In fact, Jenner plans to keep the focus on others like her. Unlike what viewers see on Keeping Up with the Kardashians  which draws a dedicated audience of viewers who enjoy seeing how the women flaunt their wealth  Jenner wants I Am Cait to be about the issues.

I am sure we all love good clothes, all that kind of stuff, Jenner said. I really want the people to get to know all of my friends. This is a different show. This is about a serious issue.

But Jenner also knows how to keep things light and fun. When someone asked how she manages to keep her skin looking so good, she quipped, Eat Your Wheaties.

RELATED: Golden Globes: The Best Speeches From This Years Show

Thursdays TCA panel also included the first trailer for I Am Cait season 2, which will return on March 6 at 9 p.m. Watch below.


----------



## queen

bruce and caitlyn have both had their fifteen minutes.  time to live life not tell the world about it.


----------



## ChanelMommy

queen said:


> bruce and caitlyn have both had their fifteen minutes.  time to live life not tell the world about it.



Agree.


----------



## horse17

DC-Cutie said:


> he could date Corey


----------



## Tivo

DesigningStyle said:


> I see.  I am confused.


That's what all this is. Nothing but confusion


----------



## lucifers

DesigningStyle said:


> I see.  I am confused.



Join the club, I've been confused since the get go


----------



## limom

queen said:


> bruce and caitlyn have both had their fifteen minutes.  time to live life not tell the world about it.


 Her life is being a famewhore, on E.


Tivo said:


> That's what all this is. Nothing but confusion





lucifers said:


> Join the club, I've been confused since the get go



You are not alone!


----------



## krissa

I was confused to, but then I figured it out. She's transexual bc she didn't have reassignment surgery but still identifies as a woman. If she were to date men she would be straight bc she's a woman dating a man. If she dates both she would be bi. If she dates a woman she would be a lesbian. 

I find her to be the ultimate kardasian though so this is probably something said just to get viewers to watch season 2.


----------



## Sasha2012

She recently shared on Twitter that she'd like to make a difference in the world for her New Year's resolution.

And on Sunday Caitlyn Jenner immediately put that into action, attending the 2016 Jazz and Champagne Brunch at The Williams Institute in West Hollywood.

The 66-year-old looked glamorous for the charitable occasion, sporting a flowing, black dress with an eye-catching belt.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...udded-heels-charity-brunch.html#ixzz3xZUj1YH4


----------



## AEGIS

sometimes i am still shocked looking at her


----------



## Jayne1

AEGIS said:


> sometimes i am still shocked looking at her



All that cosmetic surgery and it still doesn't work.


----------



## limom

AEGIS said:


> sometimes i am still shocked looking at her





Jayne1 said:


> All that cosmetic surgery and it still doesn't work.



Same here and watching her shows did not hel , she has such a douchy/masculine energy.
I still think that she just wanted to be a tranvestite and got confused.
She looks so unhappy and awkward  on the pictures.


----------



## Grace123

Who dresses this person?????


----------



## bag-princess

Grace123 said:


> Who dresses this person?????






:lolots::lolots:  i love this!!!  so gender neutral.  keeps out of of the "he/she" upset that different sides will have.


----------



## Grace123

bag-princess said:


> :lolots::lolots:  I love this!!!  So gender neutral.  Keeps out of of the "he/she" upset that different sides will have.



:d


----------



## qudz104

bag-princess said:


> :lolots::lolots:  i love this!!!  so gender neutral.  keeps out of of the "he/she" upset that different sides will have.




Haha this is how I usually refer to "this person" in conversation


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> All that cosmetic surgery and it still doesn't work.




Yes, CJ still looks like Bruce with a weave!


----------



## White Orchid

chowlover2 said:


> Yes, CJ still looks like Bruce with a weave!



Lol


----------



## berrydiva

Grace123 said:


> Who dresses this person?????


----------



## AEGIS

well it;s not even about if he looks good for me but it's just how she looks. it's like DAMN you were a dude last year. and now you're not. i have no problem respecting the decision bc it's not mine to make but i am sure if it is shocking for me on the internet, it must be so hard for her family if they did know Bruce cross-dressed. it would be very hard for me if bruce were my dad.


----------



## limom

Well, she is now writing a book.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/20/b...rmation.html&eventName=Watching-article-click


----------



## Katel

Wrongful Death Lawsuit Against Caitlyn Jenner Dismissed

https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/wro...ainst-caitlyn-jenner-dismissed-203034557.html


----------



## kemilia

Katel said:


> Wrongful Death Lawsuit Against Caitlyn Jenner Dismissed
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/wro...ainst-caitlyn-jenner-dismissed-203034557.html



In looking at pics of CJ, all the sleeves are too short on nearly every thing "this person" wears. I think if they were longer (and covered the wrists) the hands wouldn't look so large.

And I'm not surprised that this lawsuit was dismissed.


----------



## limom

She needs to order custom clothing. 
Even the tall sizes are too short for her, IMO.
she can't do off the rack...


----------



## LemonDrop

I don't see anything wrong with Bruce/Caitlyn continuing to seek his/her 15 minutes of fame. I can't even imagine the money the Kardashians/Jenners are making just by putting themselves out there. I'd ride that wave till the checks stopped rolling in.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner put on a stunning display on the first day of the 2016 MAKERS Conference at the Terranea Resort in Rancho Palos Verdes on Monday.

The 66-year-old reality star was exquisitely dressed in a slouchy taupe sweater worn over a low-cut black outfit, with her gold Caitlyn name necklace glamming up the look. 

Caitlyn was just one of several leading ladies to attend the conference, which featured discussions on gender equality solutions.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-gender-equality-solutions.html#ixzz3z2RYH5SZ


----------



## redney

"Stunning" "Exquisitely dressed" 

Um.


----------



## chowlover2

redney said:


> "Stunning" "Exquisitely dressed"
> 
> Um.



How do they dream this stuff up?


----------



## redney

chowlover2 said:


> How do they dream this stuff up?



They must have a dartboard with words supplied by PMK. Everytime they need to write an article about this family, they must throw darts to select the words.


----------



## limom

Leading Ladies?
Where?


----------



## lizmil

redney said:


> "Stunning" "Exquisitely dressed"
> 
> Um.



Thanks, I thought I was the only one with that reaction.


----------



## Encore Hermes

_Caitlyn was just one of several leading ladies to attend the conference, which * featured discussions on gender equality solutions.*_

I wonder what her imput on that subject was.


----------



## redney

Encore Hermes said:


> _Caitlyn was just one of several leading ladies to attend the conference, which * featured discussions on gender equality solutions.*_
> 
> I wonder what her imput on that subject was.



You know, make it *easier* for women to select their clothing. It's the hardest thing about being a woman!


----------



## berrydiva

Why is that wig sitting on top of Caitlyn's head like that?


----------



## raffifi

berrydiva said:


> Why is that wig sitting on top of Caitlyn's head like that?


 
it looks so weird


----------



## uhpharm01

redney said:


> You know, make it *easier* for women to select their clothing. It's the hardest thing about being a woman!


I hear you


----------



## starsandbucks

I keep pretty quiet on this thread but this makes me pretty upset. I really don't appreciate a woman who, just a few months ago, wanted to sign up for her country club membership under her old male name so she would have access to cushier rights and privileges, representing and speaking on behalf of my gender. I wish Caitlyn would just take a step BACK for half a second and gain some perspective and experience living as a woman. We'd probably have to hear a lot fewer of those "so much more to learn" half-hearted apologies.


----------



## redney

TLo. Can't get all pics to post - see link for all photos.

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2016/02/caitlyn-jenner-at-the-makers-conference-2016/

*Caitlyn Jenner at the MAKERS Conference 2016*

  Posted on February 03, 2016 

_Caitlyn Jenner attends the MAKERS Conference 2016 Day 2 at the Terrenea Resort in Rancho Palos Verdes, California._

   Lady, please. We&#8217;re begging you&#8230;

Hire a damn stylist, along with a hair and makeup team. You&#8217;ve got the money and you long ago decided you liked the spotlight, so it&#8217;s kind of a professional obligation for you at this point.

This isn&#8217;t a formal event, clearly, but it doesn&#8217;t matter. The issue here isn&#8217;t that her outfit isn&#8217;t dressy enough, it&#8217;s that it&#8217;s unflattering, not particularly stylish, and it looks cheap. The wig is awful and the makeup is perfunctory. Sorry, but she looks a right mess and we see absolutely no reason why she should. Any decent stylist could find her an equally as comfortable outfit providing just as much coverage for her while still allowing her to look pretty, confident and put-together. There&#8217;s just no need for this half-assedness.

  And lest you think this is a one-off problem&#8230;

It&#8217;s not.

  There is not a thing wrong with wanting comfortable, low drama clothes that provide coverage. But when a wealthy reality TV star is on the public appearance trail wearing ill-fitting, unflattering cheap catalogue clothes with crappy wigs, an intervention is called for. No one&#8217;s expecting her to sport the high-drag of her daughters and step-daughters, but some polish and elegance isn&#8217;t an unreasonable expectation.


----------



## chowlover2

starsandbucks said:


> I keep pretty quiet on this thread but this makes me pretty upset. I really don't appreciate a woman who, just a few months ago, wanted to sign up for her country club membership under her old male name so she would have access to cushier rights and privileges, representing and speaking on behalf of my gender. I wish Caitlyn would just take a step BACK for half a second and gain some perspective and experience living as a woman. We'd probably have to hear a lot fewer of those "so much more to learn" half-hearted apologies.


----------



## Oryx816

Did she get this outfit at Chico's or Coldwater Creek?  

Looks like she was dressed by a shaman.  

Just no.


----------



## Glitterandstuds

The fact that she thinks this is disturbing (IMO)


----------



## Oryx816

Glitterandstuds said:


> View attachment 3261599
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that she thinks this is disturbing (IMO)




+1.

Delusional.


----------



## Luvbolide

Glitterandstuds said:


> View attachment 3261599
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that she thinks this is disturbing (IMO)





I was hoping that it was some kind of joke...


----------



## AEGIS

what is this conference? FLOTUS was there too talking about girls education


----------



## berrydiva

Glitterandstuds said:


> View attachment 3261599
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that she thinks this is disturbing (IMO)



This!


----------



## VickyB

redney said:


> They must have a dartboard with words supplied by PMK. Everytime they need to write an article about this family, they must throw darts to select the words.



Genius!!!!!!


----------



## redney

WTF? Golden Girl? Oh. She is dressing like Blanche Devereaux these days.


----------



## SakuraSakura

Oryx816 said:


> +1.
> 
> Delusional.




+1. Really. Yuck.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

She needs to do better. She needs to dig deeper into transgender and women's issues before proclaiming herself head of any "movement".

And uh Caitlyn...it's not appealing nor appropriate to annoint YOURSELF with a title.

Do something good and people might give you the respect you think you deserve.


----------



## pukasonqo

FreeSpirit71 said:


> She needs to do better. She needs to dig deeper into transgender and women's issues before proclaiming herself head of any "movement".
> 
> 
> 
> And uh Caitlyn...it's not appealing nor appropriate to annoint YOURSELF with a title.
> 
> 
> 
> Do something good and people might give you the respect you think you deserve.



+1
her problem is that she thinks she deserves so much without actually doing anything, so far i haven't seen or read anything that  has made me change my opinion the caitlyn only cares about caitlyn
she certainly fullfills the requirements of being a kartrashian: self centered and vain


----------



## limom

White male entitlement at his finest.


----------



## Luvbolide

limom said:


> White male entitlement at his finest.





Old habits die hard...


----------



## Oryx816

limom said:


> White male entitlement at his finest.


----------



## DC-Cutie

limom said:


> White male entitlement at his finest.



chile...


----------



## GaitreeS

I kind of enjoy the fact that she continues to shade Kris admitting that Kris knew about the situation lol


----------



## Hobbsy

limom said:


> White male entitlement at his finest.



This


----------



## Sasha2012

She'll need to keep her energy levels up for a busy week of New York Fashion Week events.

And so Caitlyn Jenner stepped out to pick up a quick caffeine fix on Wednesday while looking stylish in a long winter coat and knee-high boots.

The 66-year-old reality star luckily didn't have to travel far for her coffee with a Starbucks located opposite her hotel, ***** Soho.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...long-stylish-coat-New-York.html#ixzz3znhmimKz


----------



## guccimamma

redney said:


> WTF? Golden Girl? Oh. She is dressing like Blanche Devereaux these days.



although i thought she would lean more toward dorothy...who knew?


----------



## Jayne1

That ***** Soho must be some cheap hotel if it doesn't have coffee for the guests.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> That ***** Soho must be some cheap hotel if it doesn't have coffee for the guests.




That's what I thought as well.


----------



## limom

Jayne1 said:


> That ***** Soho must be some cheap hotel if it doesn't have coffee for the guests.



Pfft.
How else are we going to get to see the fabulosity of Caitlyn in the freezing cold??? She needs the coffee run..
Is she here for fashion week, too?
Her coats fit her well. It must be custom.


----------



## Luvbolide

Can't really see her bag - and I think her accessories game is atrocious - but the bug made me LOL!!


----------



## chowlover2

CJ looks best covered up!


----------



## berrydiva

Jayne1 said:


> That ***** Soho must be some cheap hotel if it doesn't have coffee for the guests.





dangerouscurves said:


> That's what I thought as well.



 They offer coffee of course but no Starbucks store inside the ***** Soho, from what I remember. Tbh, I can't think of many Starbucks inside of hotels here...the Lexington is the only one I can really think of....think you'll find more coffee shops, especially Starbucks or Financier, inside office buildings here rather than hotels.


----------



## Jayne1

berrydiva said:


> They offer coffee of course but no Starbucks store inside the ***** Soho, from what I remember. Tbh, I can't think of many Starbucks inside of hotels here...the Lexington is the only one I can really think of....think you'll find more coffee shops, especially Starbucks or Financier, inside office buildings here rather than hotels.



I was joking.  I know she wanted pap attention more than a coffee in the hotel.


----------



## limom

Luvbolide said:


> Can't really see her bag - and I think her accessories game is atrocious - but the bug made me LOL!!



The way she carries the bag is the best.
She has so much to learn.:giggles:


----------



## Oryx816

limom said:


> The way she carries the bag is the best.
> 
> She has so much to learn.:giggles:




Lol!  So true!  No woman carries her purse this way.


----------



## guccimamma

limom said:


> The way she carries the bag is the best.
> She has so much to learn.:giggles:



you are so right, it's like he's pulling his golf bag.

edit: she/her


----------



## Jayne1

How dare anyone blame Caitlin for any wrong doing.  She is perfect! If something bad happens, it is the other person's fault, never hers.

(kidding)



> *CAITLYN JENNER SUES PRIUS DRIVER IN FATAL PCH CRASH
> *
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner has just filed legal docs to hold the driver of the Prius in the fatal PCH crash at least partially responsible for the accident.
> Caitlyn has filed a cross-complaint against Jessica Steindorff, the Prius driver, who was in front of Caitlyn at the time of the February crash. TMZ broke the story ... Caitlyn's SUV crashed into the Lexus, driven by Kim Howe, then continued on to strike the Prius. The Lexus careened into oncoming traffic and was struck by a Hummer, killing Howe.
> 
> 
> Caitlyn is being sued by the driver and passengers of the Hummer, but in the new legal docs she says if she's on the hook she wants Steindorff to absorb at least partial responsibility.
> Our sources say the basis for the alleged negligence on Steindorff's part is that she was sitting at the light after it turned green because she had been inattentive.
> According to Jessica's attorney, Robert Simon, "It's unfortunate that she continues to not take responsibility for a crash she clearly caused."
> 
> http://www.tmz.com/2016/02/11/caitlyn-jenner-sues-prius-driver-fatal-pch-crash-negligence/


----------



## bag-mania

Jayne1 said:


> How dare anyone blame Caitlin for any wrong doing.  She is perfect! If something bad happens, it is the other person's fault, never hers.
> 
> (kidding)



She was still Bruce when that happened. Completely different person!


----------



## Encore Hermes

I thought her (Caitlyn/Bruce at the time) insurance co paid off the Prius driver?


----------



## Sasha2012

via twitter


----------



## bag-mania

By the chewed up edges of that dress I'm assuming that either a pitbull tore into Caitlyn or that's a Kanye creation.


----------



## Encore Hermes




----------



## ChanelMommy

Jayne1 said:


> That ***** Soho must be some cheap hotel if it doesn't have coffee for the guests.



That's what I thought.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Unless Caitlyn wanted more publicity by leaving her hotel.


----------



## Jayne1

ChanelMommy said:


> Unless Caitlyn wanted more publicity by leaving her hotel.



I was being facetious.  Of course she could get whatever she wanted in her hotel, but public attention is more important to her, which is why she schlepped out in the cold for a Starbucks.


----------



## Sasha2012

She has admitted to borrowing clothing from her ex-wife and step daughter's closets, but now it seems this star has her eyes set on someone else's style.

Both Caitlyn Jenner and daughter Kendall rocked the same sweater dress created by Kanye West and Balmain at Thursday'sYeezy Season 3 launch in New York.

While it is nothing new that two people would wear similar designer-provided looks to a fashion show, having two people who are sitting together, let alone are related, wearing the same look is a style don't.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...d-stealing-model-s-thunder.html#ixzz3zvj9sBXT


----------



## Sophie-Rose

She looks utterly miserable in every photo!
Correction: there is a sneaky half smile in the pic with lil'Kim


----------



## Luvbolide

Sasha2012 said:


> She has admitted to borrowing clothing from her ex-wife and step daughter's closets, but now it seems this star has her eyes set on someone else's style.
> 
> Both Caitlyn Jenner and daughter Kendall rocked the same sweater dress created by Kanye West and Balmain at Thursday'sYeezy Season 3 launch in New York.
> 
> While it is nothing new that two people would wear similar designer-provided looks to a fashion show, having two people who are sitting together, let alone are related, wearing the same look is a style don't.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...d-stealing-model-s-thunder.html#ixzz3zvj9sBXT






Wow, how embarrassing - this has to be one of the tackiest group of women ever...


----------



## bag-princess

Sasha2012 said:


> She has admitted to borrowing clothing from her ex-wife and step daughter's closets, but now it seems this star has her eyes set on someone else's style.
> 
> Both Caitlyn Jenner and daughter Kendall rocked the same sweater dress created by Kanye West and Balmain at Thursday'sYeezy Season 3 launch in New York.
> 
> While it is nothing new that two people would wear similar designer-provided looks to a fashion show, *having two people who are sitting together, let alone are related, wearing the same look is a style don't.*
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...d-stealing-model-s-thunder.html#ixzz3zvj9sBXT






the entire family is dressed as a "style don't"!!!   half in moth eaten sweaters and the rest are dressed like vegas show girls with those beaded see through dresses!  the only thing missing are the elaborate head pieces with the tall feathers.  

and there is nothing fashionable about Caitlyn and those big boat size 15 shoes!!!


----------



## limom

She looks so over it, there.
I feel like she is thinking: I went thru all of this, to wear rags!


----------



## Oryx816

limom said:


> She looks so over it, there.
> 
> I feel like she is thinking: I went thru all of this, to wear rags!




Every time I see a pic of Caitlin I feel like she looks so unfulfilled and miserable.  Maybe living life as a woman isn't what she expected.


----------



## Swanky

*Caitlyn Jenner SUES fellow driver involved in fatal crash that  killed an elderly woman as she claims other motorist is partly  responsible for the pile-up *



*Caitlyn Jenner is being sued by the driver of a Hummer involved in crash *
*Comes after 69-year-old Kim Howe died in the smash in Malibu last year *
*But Jenner has filed new court documents saying she is not to blame *
*Documents say Jessica Steindorff, driver of another car involved, should be partly responsible*

Caitlyn  Jenner has filed court documents saying another driver is partly  responsible for a fatal car crash that killed an elderly woman last  year.
Jenner  was driving her SUV down the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu last  February, when she slammed into the back of a Lexus, being driven by  69-year-old Kim Howe.
The  former Olympic athlete, who was still known as Bruce at the time, then  also crashed into the back of a black Prius, while Mrs Howe's car  careered into oncoming traffic and was hit by a Hummer, causing her  death.





    Caitlyn Jenner, pictured last night at  the Kanye West fashion show. It has been revealed that she has filed  court documents saying another driver is partly responsible for a car  crash that killed a woman last year

Jenner is now being sued by the driver and passengers of the Hummer, accusing her of causing the accident.
However, according to TMZ,  she has now filed legal documents in Santa Monica, saying the driver of  the Prius, Hollywood agent Jessica Steindorff, should absorb at least  partial responsibility for the smash.
They add that the alleged negligence on Ms Steindorff's part is that she was being inattentive.
But  her attorney said about Jenner: 'It is unfortunate that she continues  to not take responsibility for a crash she clearly caused.'





    Jenner at the scene of the crash on the Pacific Coast Highway last year, where 69-year-old Kim Howe died 





Jenner was driving her SUV down the  Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu last February, when she slammed into the  back of a Lexus, being driven by 69-year-old Kim Howe





The former Olympic athlete, who was  still known as Bruce at the time, then also crashed into the back of a  black Prius, while Mrs Howe's car careered into oncoming traffic and was  hit by a Hummer, causing her death

However, it is not the first lawsuit that the reality TV star has had to contend with since the fatal crash last year.
In  December, it was revealed that she had settled a suit filed by  Steindorff herself after she claimed she suffered serious medical  injuries and lost wages after being hit by Jenner while driving her  Prius.
However, it is believed that Jenner's insurance company paid the undisclosed settlement to the woman.
Then,  last month, it was reported that the stepchildren of Mrs Howe, who died  in the crash, also settled their claim against Jenner, for a 'very  modest amount'.
The  family had filed a wrongful death lawsuit in May last year, but it was  claimed they withdrew their case as her stepchildren had no legal  standing to press a case.







Kim Howe,  left, died in the smash which took place on the Pacific Coast Highway.  Driver of the Prius Jessica Steindorff, right, is now been blamed for  partly causing the crash in new court documents 







    Jenner is now being sued by the driver and passengers of the Hummer, left, accusing her of causing the accident






    After the accident Caitlyn said in a  statement: 'My heartfelt and deepest sympathies go out to the family and  loved ones, and to all of those who were involved or injured in this  terrible accident' 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...partly-responsible-pile-up.html#ixzz3zxqOkyTa
​http://forum.purseblog.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## berrydiva

I say this in the most offensive way possible....they look like a freak show.


----------



## Luvbolide

Encore Hermes said:


> I thought her (Caitlyn/Bruce at the time) insurance co paid off the Prius driver?





Believe that 2 cases were settled by her insurance - the family of the woman killed (I mean the step-kids of the woman killed) and someone in one other cars, but I don't know which one.  There were injured drivers/passengers in 2 or 3 other cars, as I recall.  Can't remember details, though...


----------



## simone72

limom said:


> She looks so over it, there.
> I feel like she is thinking: I went thru all of this, to wear rags!


:lolots::lolots::lolots:


----------



## LemonDrop

That ...


----------



## LemonDrop

is all.


----------



## HULAHO

LemonDrop said:


> That ...


 
Kourtney and Kim should never stand next to Kendall, good god what freaks.


----------



## KCeboKing

LemonDrop said:


> is all.




Lol. Love this! I hate the kardashians so this makes me lol


----------



## 1Kellygirl

I think if people stopped watching that freak show the ratings  may go down and it would finally be over.


----------



## bag-mania

LemonDrop said:


> is all.




No competition. The Afghan hound wore it better.


----------



## LemonDrop

bag-mania said:


> No competition. The Afghan hound wore it better.


 :lolots:


----------



## Luvbolide

bag-mania said:


> no competition. The afghan hound wore it better.



+1000000000000


----------



## chowlover2

limom said:


> She looks so over it, there.
> 
> I feel like she is thinking: I went thru all of this, to wear rags!




Exactly!


----------



## guccimamma

what a bizarre family photo, in so many ways. 

i think of my grandmother and her photos on the mantle...the world has changed.


----------



## Sasha2012

She was adept at the long jump during her days as the world's greatest athlete.

And glamorous reality television personality Caitlyn Jenner certainly looked like she to put her skill to good use as she enjoyed a night out in Malibu on Friday.

The cougar seemed ready to pounce as she padded down the road in a leopard print top in the California celebrity enclave.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-print-enjoys-night-Malibu.html#ixzz40mIpVNu2


----------



## pukasonqo

the cougar? and here i was thinking it was kourtney's turn to be the family kougar
and what does long jump has to do with these pics? maybe it got lost in translation...


----------



## Oryx816

pukasonqo said:


> the cougar? and here i was thinking it was kourtney's turn to be the family kougar
> and what does long jump has to do with these pics? maybe it got lost in translation...




Lol!  I was laughing at cougar too.  Maybe they are mocking the feline print.  As for the long jump, maybe they think Caitlyn is ready to pounce.  Bizarre all around.


----------



## limom

pukasonqo said:


> the cougar? and here i was thinking it was kourtney's turn to be the family kougar
> and what does long jump has to do with these pics? maybe it got lost in translation...



Bruce used to be a decathlete, I guess the writer is paying homage to Caitlyn's former life and accomplishments?
 wth knows, it is the daily fail, after all!!!!!


----------



## bag-princess

*ICYMI: Watch Kris Jenner Name Caitlyn Jenner ''Worst Dressed'' on Fashion Police "I Can't With the Shoes*



*Kris Jenner* threw major shade at *Caitlyn Jenner* on Thursday's _Fashion Police_ New York Fashion Week special!


The 60-year-old _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_ star was a guest co-host on Thursday's show and she joined *Giuliana Rancic*,* Brad Goreski* and *Melissa Rivers*, along with 2016 special co-host *Margaret Cho* and _Empire_ actress *Serayah*, to talk all about celeb fashion.
While on the show Kris also dished on everything from which of her children is the pickiest when choosing their look to *Kanye West*'s Yeezy Season 3 show.


Kris was also there to pick the "Best Dressed" and "Worst Dressed" celeb looks and she decided to choose Caitlyn.
"My  worst I think is gonna be Caitlyn," Kris says in the video above. "But  here's why, wait hold on before you judge me! I can't handle the shoes  with the skirt and the second reason is because I really would've liked  this outfit for myself and she kind of stole it. I'm a little jealous,  I'm a little angry that I didn't get that skirt to be honest."
Want to find out who Kris named "Best Dressed" on the show? Then take a look at the video above!
Plus check out the season 11 finale of _Keeping Up With the Kardashians_ this Sunday at 9 p.m., only on E!






http://www.eonline.com/shows/fashio...ssed-on-fashion-police-i-can-t-with-the-shoes


----------



## Oryx816

I can't with Caitlyn's handbags!


----------



## bag-princess

Oryx816 said:


> I can't with Caitlyn's handbags!





THIS!!!


----------



## Oryx816

bag-princess said:


> THIS!!!




And the way she carries them....like she is taking out the trash!


----------



## bag-princess

Oryx816 said:


> And the way she carries them....like she is taking out the trash!







she is NOT a bag lover! that is so obvious.   she thinks it is something she has to have and any old thing will do!!  lawd! 
http://forum.purseblog.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Oryx816

bag-princess said:


> she is NOT a bag lover! that is so obvious.   she thinks it is something she has to have and any old thing will do!!  lawd!
> http://forum.purseblog.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/




ITA!  No worries about her being on the purseforum that's for sure!  It looks like she just rummages around at the clearance bin at TJ Maxxfor any old bag.  I would love a "what's inside your bag".  I am curious as to the contents!


----------



## bag-princess

Oryx816 said:


> ITA!  No worries about her being on the purseforum that's for sure!  It looks like she just rummages around at the clearance bin at TJ Maxxfor any old bag.  *I would love a "what's inside your bag".  I am curious as to the contents!*





i would love this,too!!!  i always wonder what she has in those things.
http://forum.purseblog.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## pukasonqo

Oryx816 said:


> And the way she carries them....like she is taking out the trash!
> 
> View attachment 3280760




she should take tips from korey in how to karry a bag, after all, he is PMK's bag karrier par excellence


----------



## chowlover2

bag-princess said:


> she is NOT a bag lover! that is so obvious.   she thinks it is something she has to have and any old thing will do!!  lawd!
> http://forum.purseblog.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/



It looks like she carries a bag of rocks!


----------



## bag-princess

chowlover2 said:


> It looks like she carries a bag of rocks!







  she is not graceful and ladylike at all!!!


----------



## Oryx816

chowlover2 said:


> It looks like she carries a bag of rocks!


----------



## ChanelMommy

And judging from the mans face in the above photo he is shocked too that Cait can't carry a handbag correctly


----------



## Oryx816

ChanelMommy said:


> And judging from the mans face in the above photo he is shocked too that Cait can't carry a handbag correctly




 I didn't notice it before but yes, he looks like he is thinking 'wtf?'


----------



## LemonDrop

To me, it looks like Caitlyn is hauling trash to the dump.  He/She definitely does not have a passion for handbags.


----------



## krissa

Caitlyn got a deal with Mac.







http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/02/26/caitlyn-jenner-mac-cosmetics-makeup/


----------



## knasarae

^^Here's the story.  Sorry, I am unable to post the article in here:

http://www.tmz.com/2016/02/26/caitlyn-jenner-mac-cosmetics-makeup/


----------



## Jayne1

^ One lippie.  "Finally Free."

I've been over MAC for a while now, but the MAC AIDS Fund Transgender Initiative is a great idea.


----------



## Grace123

I may be horrid but any company that gives any Khardashian a deal, I'm over. I even got over my years long desire for a Birkin when they started collecting them like stamps. [emoji13]


----------



## Jayne1

Grace123 said:


> I may be horrid but any company that gives any Khardashian a deal, I'm over. I even got over my years long desire for a Birkin when they started collecting them like stamps. [emoji13]



That's how I feel.  Attach a K name and it's not desirable at all.


----------



## lizmil

Agreed another product I  won't buy, first they ruined Estee Lauder, now this.  Although I heard from the rep at our Estee counter that they do make Kendall work.


----------



## krissa

Grace123 said:


> I may be horrid but any company that gives any Khardashian a deal, I'm over. I even got over my years long desire for a Birkin when they started collecting them like stamps. [emoji13]



Me too. Sinful Colors (nail polish) gave Kylie a line and I'm like wahhh.


----------



## berrydiva

Companies are out to make money. Don't make a deal with the Kardashians the reason you stop liking your fav companies, product, etc.


----------



## LemonDrop

Grace123 said:


> I may be horrid but any company that gives any Khardashian a deal, I'm over. I even got over my years long desire for a Birkin when they started collecting them like stamps. [emoji13]



Poor Poor Caitlyn. You call him a Kardashian. Everyone agrees. I even agree. Then after a few seconds I remember Hay!!! he's not a Kardashian. ??!! Like the Jenner legacy is just gone. He has really become a Kardashian.


----------



## AEGIS

i am sure the color won't compliment me


----------



## queen

If I did not find Jenner's behavior so distasteful, I would feel sorry for someone who at 67 needed to post this.  Jenner already had 15 minutes, time to move on.


----------



## aleksandras

Grace123 said:


> I may be horrid but any company that gives any Khardashian a deal, I'm over. I even got over my years long desire for a Birkin when they started collecting them like stamps. [emoji13]



This x 10000


----------



## Aminamina

She truly represents a spirit of Photoshop. That's it.


----------



## pukasonqo

Aminamina said:


> She truly represents a spirit of Photoshop. That's it.




yup
so far, from my POV, she has done nothing at all to raise awareness or put LGBT issues in the public eye
is all about herself
she has only raise awareness about herself
and, let's be honest, her biggest issue has been if she would be allowed back into her private golf club


----------



## lil_fashionista

lizmil said:


> Agreed another product I  won't buy, first they ruined Estee Lauder, now this.  Although I heard from the rep at our Estee counter that they do make Kendall work.



Estée Lauder owns MAC so I wasn't that surprised by this announcement. 



berrydiva said:


> Companies are out to make money. Don't make a deal with the Kardashians the reason you stop liking your fav companies, product, etc.



I agree. I'm no longer a MAC addict, but I'll be damned if the Jenner/ Kardashians stop me from using my favourite products. They use soap too, but that's not a reason for me to stop bathing. 



pukasonqo said:


> yup
> so far, from my POV, she has done nothing at all to raise awareness or put LGBT issues in the public eye
> is all about herself
> she has only raise awareness about herself
> and, let's be honest, her biggest issue has been if she would be allowed back into her private golf club



She probably feels that her mere existence has raised awareness and the LGBT community should be grateful to her for doing so.


----------



## pukasonqo

lil_fashionista said:


> Estée Lauder owns MAC so I wasn't that surprised by this announcement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I'm no longer a MAC addict, but I'll be damned if the Jenner/ Kardashians stop me from using my favourite products. They use soap too, but that's not a reason for me to stop bathing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She probably feels that her mere existence has raised awareness and the LGBT community should be grateful to her for doing so.




yup to all this, especially the last paragraph


----------



## Oryx816

lil_fashionista said:


> Estée Lauder owns MAC so I wasn't that surprised by this announcement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I'm no longer a MAC addict, but I'll be damned if the Jenner/ Kardashians stop me from using my favourite products. They use soap too, but that's not a reason for me to stop bathing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She probably feels that her mere existence has raised awareness and the LGBT community should be grateful to her for doing so.




X 1000000. So this!


----------



## limom

Mac is a long standing supporter  of the LGBT community, so I am not surprised at all that they would select Caitlyn as a spokesperson.
Frankly, older transgendered individuals need to have representation in media and advertising.. 
Nevertheless, Caitlyn reminds me more and more of the character in the serie "Transparent", especially her entitlement issues.
As far as the lipstick  color, it  is neutral and quite age appropriate.
I will not stop buying Mac cosmetics because of their association with her.
If the line is good, I am down especially since Mac have been such long time advocate.


----------



## pukasonqo

caitlyn reminds me of daffyd thomas, "the only gay in this village",in little britain, did you guys see the show in the USA?


----------



## Aminamina

pukasonqo said:


> caitlyn reminds me of daffyd thomas, "the only gay in this village",in little britain, did you guys see the show in the USA?


LOL! Love it :giggles:


----------



## limom

pukasonqo said:


> caitlyn reminds me of daffyd thomas, "the only gay in this village",in little britain, did you guys see the show in the USA?



Nope but the description sounds interesting.


----------



## dangerouscurves

pukasonqo said:


> caitlyn reminds me of daffyd thomas, "the only gay in this village",in little britain, did you guys see the show in the USA?




Hahaha!!! [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]


----------



## lil_fashionista

pukasonqo said:


> caitlyn reminds me of daffyd thomas, "the only gay in this village",in little britain, did you guys see the show in the USA?



I didn't but I googled it and it sounds just like Caitlyn.


----------



## Oryx816

pukasonqo said:


> caitlyn reminds me of daffyd thomas, "the only gay in this village",in little britain, did you guys see the show in the USA?




Yes!  Hilarious!  So true....


----------



## V0N1B2

If MAC makeup can transform you like this, then sign me up. I'll buy buckets of it.


----------



## pukasonqo

V0N1B2 said:


> If MAC makeup can transform you like this, then sign me up. I'll buy buckets of it.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3287926




make up plus lighting, plus filters, plus photoshop...i am tired just thinking of how much is involved in a fashion shoot


----------



## bag-mania

V0N1B2 said:


> If MAC makeup can transform you like this, then sign me up. I'll buy buckets of it.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3287926




Makeup was just the tip of that iceberg. It was the collaborative efforts of a staff of artists that made that photo shoot possible. Definitely not something Caitlyn has access to on a daily basis.


----------



## White Orchid

pukasonqo said:


> caitlyn reminds me of daffyd thomas, "the only gay in this village",in little britain, did you guys see the show in the USA?



The "I'm a gay" one, lol.


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> make up plus lighting, plus filters, plus photoshop...i am tired just thinking of how much is involved in a fashion shoot




Pics like this are so unfair to the majority of transgendered individuals without CJ's $$$. So unattainable for most. Unattainable for me and I'm not even trans-  &#129300;

Whatever became of her playing golf on the men's golf course?


----------



## BagOuttaHell

I never thought she looked good. That was the media playing lip service.

She is aging like milk.


----------



## limom

chowlover2 said:


> Pics like this are so unfair to the majority of transgendered individuals without CJ's $$$. So unattainable for most. Unattainable for me and I'm not even trans-  &#129300;
> 
> Whatever became of her playing golf on the men's golf course?


Not for nothing but with the right filters, right beauty squad, I bet you that you are Mac ready.
Same with me...



BagOuttaHell said:


> I never thought she looked good. That was the media playing lip service.
> 
> She is aging like milk.


Well, in other news, the sky is blue


----------



## Grace123

BagOuttaHell said:


> I never thought she looked good. That was the media playing lip service.
> 
> She is aging like milk.




Hahahahahahahahaha [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## coconutsboston

chowlover2 said:


> Pics like this are so unfair to the majority of transgendered individuals without CJ's $$$. So unattainable for most. Unattainable for me and I'm not even trans-  &#129300;
> 
> Whatever became of her playing golf on the men's golf course?



I've been wondering about the men's golf course as well. That sure got swept under the rug fast...


----------



## Sasha2012

Oscars after parties.



























via zimbio


----------



## Oryx816

For someone who is finally "free", Caitlyn always seems uncomfortable and miserable.


----------



## pukasonqo

the dress the woman in the third pic ( who is she? sorry) is wearing makes caitlyn look pretty stylish by comparison, which is a lot to say as she seems to be going to a different place than everyone else. the red dress looks ok on her but is not an oscar party gown
i am prepared to be put on my place but that purple dress, from the angle of the pic looks like a 70s nylon nightmare


----------



## Jayne1

Her boobs are much bigger, lately.


----------



## qudz104

pukasonqo said:


> the dress the woman in the third pic ( who is she? sorry) is wearing makes caitlyn look pretty stylish by comparison, which is a lot to say as she seems to be going to a different place than everyone else. the red dress looks ok on her but is not an oscar party gown
> i am prepared to be put on my place but that purple dress, from the angle of the pic looks like a 70s nylon nightmare




That's Heidi Klum no? Terrible outfit choice as usual for her.


----------



## Oryx816

pukasonqo said:


> the dress the woman in the third pic ( who is she? sorry) is wearing makes caitlyn look pretty stylish by comparison, which is a lot to say as she seems to be going to a different place than everyone else. the red dress looks ok on her but is not an oscar party gown
> i am prepared to be put on my place but that purple dress, from the angle of the pic looks like a 70s nylon nightmare




The woman in the third pic looks like she may have gone by the name Heidi Klum at one point, but the Botox gets in the way of a proper ID.


----------



## berrydiva

The length of that dress is awful.


----------



## Oryx816

berrydiva said:


> The length of that dress is awful.




Matronly.


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> the dress the woman in the third pic ( who is she? sorry) is wearing makes caitlyn look pretty stylish by comparison, which is a lot to say as she seems to be going to a different place than everyone else. the red dress looks ok on her but is not an oscar party gown
> i am prepared to be put on my place but that purple dress, from the angle of the pic looks like a 70s nylon nightmare




It's Heidi Klum, wearing Marquesa no less. The dress looked slightly better on the runway, but it looks awful on Heidi, and she is generally very stylish. Marquesa is usually divine, just not this dress. 

CJ's dress looks like she is going to a luncheon, not an Oscar party. Where was her MAC look for that?


----------



## Oryx816

In the fourth picture she has a forehead that would make a Klingon purr.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

I loved Heidi Klum's dress. 
There is no hope for Caitlyn.


----------



## simone72

It's funny how when Caitlyn was Bruce she never wanted to go out to any parties and was always filmed staying home or being dragged on vacations and now voila' can't miss a beat!


----------



## sdkitty

sorry, she still looks like a large man in drag (with good makeup and hair)


----------



## lil_fashionista

Oryx816 said:


> In the fourth picture she has a forehead that would make a Klingon purr.


----------



## chowlover2

sdkitty said:


> sorry, she still looks like a large man in drag (with good makeup and hair)




Agreed!


----------



## bag-mania

sdkitty said:


> sorry, she still looks like a large man in drag (with good makeup and hair)



True. To be fair we can't expect miracles since the change wasn't made until age 65. Caitlyn can live like a woman, but as far as looking like one...


----------



## Jayne1

simone72 said:


> It's funny how when Caitlyn was Bruce she never wanted to go out to any parties and was always filmed staying home or being dragged on vacations and now voila' can't miss a beat!


Odd, isn't it?  



sdkitty said:


> sorry, she still looks like a large man in drag (with good makeup and hair)



The hair looks good because it's a wig.  We haven't seen her hair for a long time.


----------



## bag-princess

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> I loved Heidi Klum's dress.
> *There is no hope for Caitlyn.*




none.at.all!!!!




sdkitty said:


> sorry, she still looks like a large man in drag (with good makeup and hair)





sorry but i honestly don't think her and makeup are all that good.  she does still look like a man in drag and when you get down to those big feet - lawd!!!!  all her shoes are so ugly with those low heels because she can't do 3" without killing herself obviously.  i know women with big feet that still wear heels and manage to look very much like a woman.   if i saw Caitlyn coming and had my doubts after seeing those feet i would not doubt anymore.


----------



## Jayne1

bag-princess said:


> sorry but i honestly don't think her and makeup are all that good.  she does still look like a man in drag and when you get down to those big feet - lawd!!!!  all her shoes are so ugly with those low heels because she can't do 3" without killing herself obviously.  i know women with big feet that still wear heels and manage to look very much like a woman.   if i saw Caitlyn coming and had my doubts after seeing those feet i would not doubt anymore.



She likes her feet, because she shows them off on her TV shows, pointing to how cute they look, especially the toes.

I, on the other hand, find her feet kind of repulsive, although not for a guy, and definitely not in the sandals she insists on wearing.


----------



## bag-princess

Jayne1 said:


> She likes her feet, because she shows them off on her TV shows, *pointing to how cute they look, especially the toes.
> *
> I, on the other hand, find her feet kind of repulsive, although not for a guy, and definitely not in the sandals she insists on wearing.






  you have to be joking!!!!    those boats ain't cute!!!  at all!! 


and i can't even imagine them toes with polish!!!!:lolots::lolots:


----------



## morgan20

Tough crowd today in the Kardashians threads [emoji16][emoji16]


----------



## morgan20

bag-princess said:


> you have to be joking!!!!    those boats ain't cute!!!  at all!!
> 
> 
> and i can't even imagine them toes with polish!!!!:lolots::lolots:




Damn that's hilarious


----------



## CeeJay

Wait .. I'm confused, I thought Caitlyn was saying that she wanted to date women, now she wants to date men because "she wants a guy who will treat her right."?!?!  


*Caitlyn Jenner's 'special guy' revealed: Reality star says she's seeking romance and a 'traditional guy and girl' relationship*


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...onal-guy-girl-relationship.html#ixzz41iCYvM6S 
http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail
​


----------



## tweegy

CeeJay said:


> Wait .. I'm confused, I thought Caitlyn was saying that she wanted to date women, now she wants to date men because "she wants a guy who will treat her right."?!?!
> 
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner's 'special guy' revealed: Reality star says she's seeking romance and a 'traditional guy and girl' relationship*
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...onal-guy-girl-relationship.html#ixzz41iCYvM6S
> http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail
> ​




I don't think anyone is more confused than Caitlin herself... So I'd just roll with her thoughts of the day.


----------



## DC-Cutie

tweegy said:


> I don't think anyone is more confused than Caitlin herself... So I'd just roll with her thoughts of the day.



when I read that article, I was like 'really, girl/...'.  Just go and date your pay per view boyfriend.  we don't need to know everything


----------



## lovely

i doubt she will ever date anyone. i think at heart she's still a loner. i think she's just trying to "prove" to the world (and also herself?) that she's happier now by flaunting around with her rent-a-friends. i think she also said she will date men just to get everyone to stop asking her about it all the time.

if she ever starts dating i will be shocked.


----------



## gillianna

So who they going to hire to play Caitlin's boyfriend?  Does Cory have a brother or is his Kontract about to expire?


----------



## berrydiva

lovely said:


> i doubt she will ever date anyone. i think at heart she's still a loner. i think she's just trying to "prove" to the world (and also herself?) that she's happier now by flaunting around with her rent-a-friends. i think she also said she will date men just to get everyone to stop asking her about it all the time.
> 
> if she ever starts dating i will be shocked.



So funny you say this because I was wondering if this transformation actually brought her the happiness sought all these years.


----------



## Jayne1

lovely said:


> i doubt she will ever date anyone. *i think at heart she's still a loner. i think she's just trying to "prove" to the world (and also herself?) that she's happier now by flaunting around with her rent-a-friends.* i think she also said she will date men just to get everyone to stop asking her about it all the time.



That's a very good point!


----------



## pukasonqo

berrydiva said:


> So funny you say this because I was wondering if this transformation actually brought her the happiness sought all these years.




she would have to have some insight and work out what is that is making her miserable instead of tryi g to fix things with band aid measures
if she wants to date men, will she undergo sex reassignment surgery?


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> she would have to have some insight and work out what is that is making her miserable instead of tryi g to fix things with band aid measures
> if she wants to date men, will she undergo sex reassignment surgery?




I couldn't understand a straight man wanting to have a relationship with her unless she did.


----------



## lovely

chowlover2 said:


> I couldn't understand a straight man wanting to have a relationship with her unless she did.



exactly.


----------



## LemonDrop

Maybe she wants a traditional relationship where she is the man? So a traditional husband and wife. And she is the husband but she wears dresses and is called Caitlyn.

Sometimes I get the idea she/he wants both.


----------



## bag-princess

LemonDrop said:


> *Maybe she wants a traditional relationship where she is the man?* So a traditional husband and wife. And she is the husband but she wears dresses and is called Caitlyn.
> 
> Sometimes I get the idea she/he wants both.





then why become a woman????   he was already a man!


----------



## mrsinsyder

Now she's endorsing a political candidate to be a "Trans advocate." Politics notwithstanding, she really thinks of herself highly.


----------



## Sasha2012

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2016/03/03/caitlyn-jenner-like-ted-cruz/81284380/

*Caitlyn Jenner: 'I like Ted Cruz'*

Will Caitlyn Jenner become a trans ambassador to the White House?

That's what she's pitching, should Ted Cruz become president.

"I like Ted Cruz," Jenner, a lifelong **********, told The Advocate Wednesday.

Here's why: "I think he's very conservative, and a great constitutionalist, and a very articulate man," she said. "I haven't endorsed him or anything like that. But I also think, he's an evangelical Christian, and probably one of the worst ones when it comes to trans issues."

Jenner's comments began making headlines soon after the article published. Cruz has staunchly protested against trans-friendly gender-open bathrooms (calling them "lunacy"), called marriage equality "fundamentally illegitimate, lawless, and unconstitutional" and opposes the military's moves to include transgender soldiers.

"We shouldn't view the military as a cauldron for social experiments," the presidential candidate said in October.

Jenner, who met Cruz before her transition, seemed aware her political beliefs would stir the pot.

"I get it. The ********s are better when it comes to these types of social issues. I understand that," she said, but countered, "Number one, if we don't have a country, we don't have trans issues. We need jobs. We need a vibrant economy. I want every trans person to have a job. With $19 trillion in debt and it keeps going up, we're spending money we don't have. Eventually, it's going to end. And I don't want to see that. Socialism did not build this country. Capitalism did. Free enterprise. The people built it. And they need to be given the opportunity to build it back up."

Should Cruz win, Jenner, who recently tweeted a photo of her updated country club locker with a new nameplate (adding the hashtag #acceptance) suggested she become trans ambassador to the president of the United States, so we can say, Ted, love what youre doing but heres whats going on.'

Jenner's comments quickly found pushback online. ThinkProgress.org called the reality star's remarks tone-deaf.  "The economy isnt whats keeping transgender people from finding employment  its anti-transgender discrimination," wrote Zack Ford.

On Twitter, a message to Jenner from Eunic Ortiz read, "Please stop. You're hurting us. Sincerely, LGBT people everywhere."

As of 5:30 p.m. ET, Cruz's Twitter account had yet to acknowledge Jenner's comments.


----------



## CobaltBlu

*sits on hands*


----------



## V0N1B2

CobaltBlu said:


> *sits on hands*


Right?  I can't even...
<--- see avatar


----------



## chowlover2

Sasha2012 said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2016/03/03/caitlyn-jenner-like-ted-cruz/81284380/
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner: 'I like Ted Cruz'*
> 
> Will Caitlyn Jenner become a trans ambassador to the White House?
> 
> That's what she's pitching, should Ted Cruz become president.
> 
> "I like Ted Cruz," Jenner, a lifelong **********, told The Advocate Wednesday.
> 
> Here's why: "I think he's very conservative, and a great constitutionalist, and a very articulate man," she said. "I haven't endorsed him or anything like that. But I also think, he's an evangelical Christian, and probably one of the worst ones when it comes to trans issues."
> 
> Jenner's comments began making headlines soon after the article published. Cruz has staunchly protested against trans-friendly gender-open bathrooms (calling them "lunacy"), called marriage equality "fundamentally illegitimate, lawless, and unconstitutional" and opposes the military's moves to include transgender soldiers.
> 
> "We shouldn't view the military as a cauldron for social experiments," the presidential candidate said in October.
> 
> Jenner, who met Cruz before her transition, seemed aware her political beliefs would stir the pot.
> 
> "I get it. The ********s are better when it comes to these types of social issues. I understand that," she said, but countered, "Number one, if we don't have a country, we don't have trans issues. We need jobs. We need a vibrant economy. I want every trans person to have a job. With $19 trillion in debt and it keeps going up, we're spending money we don't have. Eventually, it's going to end. And I don't want to see that. Socialism did not build this country. Capitalism did. Free enterprise. The people built it. And they need to be given the opportunity to build it back up."
> 
> Should Cruz win, Jenner, who recently tweeted a photo of her updated country club locker with a new nameplate (adding the hashtag #acceptance) suggested she become trans ambassador to the president of the United States, so we can say, Ted, love what youre doing but heres whats going on.'
> 
> Jenner's comments quickly found pushback online. ThinkProgress.org called the reality star's remarks tone-deaf.  "The economy isnt whats keeping transgender people from finding employment  its anti-transgender discrimination," wrote Zack Ford.
> 
> On Twitter, a message to Jenner from Eunic Ortiz read, "Please stop. You're hurting us. Sincerely, LGBT people everywhere."
> 
> As of 5:30 p.m. ET, Cruz's Twitter account had yet to acknowledge Jenner's comments.



CJ needs to shut up and have a seat!


----------



## Luvbolide

CJ also needs to listen to Ted Cruz before mouthing off - she may like and respect Cruz, but we can bet top dollar that the feeling is not mutual.

Why do poorly educated "reality stars" feel the need to express their personal opinions on meaningful topics?!?!


----------



## Encore Hermes

Regardless what she said, Imo she doesn't like him ( as a candidate ). Now he will lose base.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sasha2012 said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2016/03/03/caitlyn-jenner-like-ted-cruz/81284380/
> 
> 
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner: 'I like Ted Cruz'*
> 
> 
> 
> Will Caitlyn Jenner become a trans ambassador to the White House?
> 
> 
> 
> That's what she's pitching, should Ted Cruz become president.
> 
> 
> 
> "I like Ted Cruz," Jenner, a lifelong **********, told The Advocate Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's why: "I think he's very conservative, and a great constitutionalist, and a very articulate man," she said. "I haven't endorsed him or anything like that. But I also think, he's an evangelical Christian, and probably one of the worst ones when it comes to trans issues."
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner's comments began making headlines soon after the article published. Cruz has staunchly protested against trans-friendly gender-open bathrooms (calling them "lunacy"), called marriage equality "fundamentally illegitimate, lawless, and unconstitutional" and opposes the military's moves to include transgender soldiers.
> 
> 
> 
> "We shouldn't view the military as a cauldron for social experiments," the presidential candidate said in October.
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner, who met Cruz before her transition, seemed aware her political beliefs would stir the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> "I get it. The ********s are better when it comes to these types of social issues. I understand that," she said, but countered, "Number one, if we don't have a country, we don't have trans issues. We need jobs. We need a vibrant economy. I want every trans person to have a job. With $19 trillion in debt and it keeps going up, we're spending money we don't have. Eventually, it's going to end. And I don't want to see that. Socialism did not build this country. Capitalism did. Free enterprise. The people built it. And they need to be given the opportunity to build it back up."
> 
> 
> 
> Should Cruz win, Jenner, who recently tweeted a photo of her updated country club locker with a new nameplate (adding the hashtag #acceptance) suggested she become trans ambassador to the president of the United States, so we can say, Ted, love what youre doing but heres whats going on.'
> 
> 
> 
> Jenner's comments quickly found pushback online. ThinkProgress.org called the reality star's remarks tone-deaf.  "The economy isnt whats keeping transgender people from finding employment  its anti-transgender discrimination," wrote Zack Ford.
> 
> 
> 
> On Twitter, a message to Jenner from Eunic Ortiz read, "Please stop. You're hurting us. Sincerely, LGBT people everywhere."
> 
> 
> 
> As of 5:30 p.m. ET, Cruz's Twitter account had yet to acknowledge Jenner's comments.




Proof that all the PS have damages his brain just like the other sisters.


----------



## bisousx

What a fool. I regret giving Caitlyn any benefit of the doubt. And I'm not even a liberal anymore, lol.'


----------



## pukasonqo

caitlyn (or should it be kaitlyn?) should keep her thoughts to herself
once more she proves to me that she is utterly klueless when it comes to LGBT issues, the economy , etc. 
maybe she should koncentrate in dekorating her locker


----------



## bag-princess

mrsinsyder said:


> Now she's endorsing a political candidate to be a "Trans advocate." Politics notwithstanding, *she really thinks of herself highly*.




she is going to learn!!  she doesn't want any part of politics in her life.






Sasha2012 said:


> http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2016/03/03/caitlyn-jenner-like-ted-cruz/81284380/
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner: 'I like Ted Cruz'*
> 
> Will Caitlyn Jenner become a trans ambassador to the White House?
> 
> That's what she's pitching, should Ted Cruz become president.
> 
> "I like Ted Cruz," Jenner, a lifelong **********, told The Advocate Wednesday.
> 
> Here's why: "I think he's very conservative, and a great constitutionalist, and a very articulate man," she said. "I haven't endorsed him or anything like that. But I also think, he's an evangelical Christian, and probably one of the worst ones when it comes to trans issues."
> 
> Jenner's comments began making headlines soon after the article published. *Cruz has staunchly protested against trans-friendly gender-open bathrooms (calling them "lunacy"), called marriage equality "fundamentally illegitimate, lawless, and unconstitutional" and opposes the military's moves to include transgender soldiers.*
> 
> "We shouldn't view the military as a cauldron for social experiments," the presidential candidate said in October.
> 
> Jenner, who met Cruz before her transition, seemed aware her political beliefs would stir the pot.
> 
> "I get it. The ********s are better when it comes to these types of social issues. I understand that," she said, but countered, "Number one, if we don't have a country, we don't have trans issues. We need jobs. We need a vibrant economy. I want every trans person to have a job. With $19 trillion in debt and it keeps going up, we're spending money we don't have. Eventually, it's going to end. And I don't want to see that. Socialism did not build this country. Capitalism did. Free enterprise. The people built it. And they need to be given the opportunity to build it back up."
> 
> Should Cruz win, Jenner, who recently tweeted a photo of her updated country club locker with a new nameplate (adding the hashtag #acceptance) she become trans ambassador to the president of the United States, so we can say, Ted, love what youre doing but heres whats going on.'suggested
> 
> Jenner's comments quickly found pushback online. ThinkProgress.org called the reality star's remarks tone-deaf.  "The economy isnt whats keeping transgender people from finding employment  its anti-transgender discrimination," wrote Zack Ford.
> 
> On Twitter, a message to Jenner from Eunic Ortiz read, "Please stop. You're hurting us. Sincerely, LGBT people everywhere."
> 
> As of 5:30 p.m. ET, Cruz's Twitter account had yet to acknowledge Jenner's comments.






and this is the candidate she endorses!!  lawd have mercy!   she came out and just crowned herself the LGBT Ambassador for the World!!!


----------



## Oryx816

bag-princess said:


> she is going to learn!!  she doesn't want any part of politics in her life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this is the candidate she endorses!!  lawd have mercy!   she came out and just crowned herself the LGBT Ambassador for the World!!!




I see she is still thinking like a man.....a female is not an ambassador but an ambassadress.  Loser.


----------



## chowlover2

If they are going to pick an ambassador for the LGBT community I nominate Ellen Page. She has done a lot since she publicly came out, leaves old CJ in the dust.


----------



## redney

I don't get the "ambassador" thing for any group of people based on sexual orientation/identification, gender, race, ethnicity, etc. 

It would be quite offensive to many if one single person was deemed an "ambassador" for a particular group like women, men, blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, etc. So why is this different for LGBQT people?


----------



## berrydiva

For the most part, I see no issue when folks have a favoring for a candidate who has a position that doesn't seemingly align to their best interest as social issues aren't the only things people care about; however, in this case, Caitlyn should stay away from answering these type questions as her biggest issue seems to be playing golf at the old lodge and which kitten heel to wear.


----------



## grand_duchess

I maintain that Bruce was confused about who he wanted to be - he wanted to crossdress, not be a woman. If you ask Caitlin about being a woman, it's all about dressing up, make up, shallow crap like that. I don't think she'll ever be truly comfortable.


----------



## Oryx816

grand_duchess said:


> I maintain that Bruce was confused about who he wanted to be - he wanted to crossdress, not be a woman. If you ask Caitlin about being a woman, it's all about dressing up, make up, shallow crap like that. I don't think she'll ever be truly comfortable.




I'm with you.  I think Caitlyn is a persona, and Bruce is just a transvestite, not transgender.  Nevertheless, regardless of gender, I find this to be an objectionable human being, to say the least.


----------



## krissa

Interesting he was nice to Bruce a male Olympian. I wonder how her treatment would've been if she was your average 65 year old recently transitioned trans woman. She is such a bonehead. 

Everyone was so quick to shower her with praise, and she continues to do more harm than good.


----------



## grand_duchess

Oryx816 said:


> I'm with you.  I think Caitlyn is a persona, and Bruce is just a transvestite, not transgender.  Nevertheless, regardless of gender, I find this to be an objectionable human being, to say the least.



I didn't like Bruce and I don't like Caitlin any better.


----------



## AEGIS

redney said:


> I don't get the "ambassador" thing for any group of people based on sexual orientation/identification, gender, race, ethnicity, etc.
> *
> It would be quite offensive to many if one single person was deemed an "ambassador" for a particular group like women,* men, blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, etc. So why is this different for LGBQT people?



Not it's not.


----------



## qudz104

grand_duchess said:


> I maintain that Bruce was confused about who he wanted to be - he wanted to crossdress, not be a woman. If you ask Caitlin about being a woman, it's all about dressing up, make up, shallow crap like that. I don't think she'll ever be truly comfortable.




I agree. Personally I think Bruce might be regretting the extensiveness that went into becoming Caitlin when he/she only liked certain aspects of being a woman. I know from reading that before one makes such a huge life decision that they should undergo extensive counseling etc to make sure that this is what they truly want to be happy and I feel like it wasn't really done by him.


----------



## grand_duchess

qudz104 said:


> I agree. Personally I think Bruce might be regretting the extensiveness that went into becoming Caitlin when he/she only liked certain aspects of being a woman. I know from reading that before one makes such a huge life decision that they should undergo extensive counseling etc to make sure that this is what they truly want to be happy and I feel like it wasn't really done by him.



Has THE surgery happened yet?


----------



## Glitterandstuds

grand_duchess said:


> Has THE surgery happened yet?




Nope he still a Bruce


----------



## bag-princess

grand_duchess said:


> Has THE surgery happened yet?





I don't think it's going to ever happen! ITA with grand_duchess that he liked dressing as  a woman and feeling like one but he doesn't want to go through all that to actually be a woman!


----------



## Oryx816

bag-princess said:


> I don't think it's going to ever happen! ITA with grand_duchess that he liked dressing as  a woman and feeling like one but he doesn't want to go through all that to actually be a woman!




Precisely.  Therefore he is a transvestite.


----------



## qudz104

grand_duchess said:


> Has THE surgery happened yet?




Yeah I don't think so though I'm sure they'll talk about it on her new season of the show. I'm talking about her gene real other feminizing surgeries that she may or may not be regretting now.


----------



## Encore Hermes

I don't think she ever will have surgery but if she does she will tell all I'm sure.


----------



## chowlover2

bag-princess said:


> I don't think it's going to ever happen! ITA with grand_duchess that he liked dressing as  a woman and feeling like one but he doesn't want to go through all that to actually be a woman!







Encore Hermes said:


> I don't think she ever will have surgery but if she does she will tell all I'm sure.




I don't think CJ will go through with it either.


----------



## lil_fashionista

berrydiva said:


> For the most part, I see no issue when folks have a favoring for a candidate who has a position that doesn't seemingly align to their best interest as social issues aren't the only things people care about; however, in this case, Caitlyn should stay away from answering these type questions as her biggest issue seems to be playing golf at the old lodge and which kitten heel to wear.



This!



grand_duchess said:


> I maintain that Bruce was confused about who he wanted to be - he wanted to crossdress, not be a woman. If you ask Caitlin about being a woman, it's all about dressing up, make up, shallow crap like that. I don't think she'll ever be truly comfortable.



And this!


----------



## pixiejenna

I feel like when she does the surgery she'll go into hiding until she's fully recovered. I'd be inclined to think she'll get around to finalizing it within a year or two. On one hand I feel like at her age why go through the extra surgery and the recovery time. But with this family getting plastic surgery is like going to the dentist(no pun  intended) and the recovery is pretty much routine for them. She had her neck done about 2 years ago then her boobs last year. So really what's one more surgery at this point?


----------



## VickyB

CobaltBlu said:


> *sits on hands*



Colbalt, you nailed it. My fingers wanted to start flying all over the keyboard about this "what the what" shinanigans.


----------



## VickyB

grand_duchess said:


> I maintain that Bruce was confused about who he wanted to be - he wanted to crossdress, not be a woman. If you ask Caitlin about being a woman, it's all about dressing up, make up, shallow crap like that. I don't think she'll ever be truly comfortable.



This.


----------



## VickyB

qudz104 said:


> I agree. Personally I think Bruce might be regretting the extensiveness that went into becoming Caitlin when he/she only liked certain aspects of being a woman. I know from reading that before one makes such a huge life decision that they should undergo extensive counseling etc to make sure that this is what they truly want to be happy and I feel like it wasn't really done by him.



Did CJ have counseling sessions? I ask b/c they certainly would have been featured on the show.  Since CJ has not had reassignment surgery yet ( and that is a topic clearly ooff the table where CJ is concerned) perhaps the middle of the road halt is for a reason  - rather be a cross dresser than an actual person with all encompassing female attributes? Dunno, just tossing it out there.


----------



## qudz104

VickyB said:


> Did CJ have counseling sessions? I ask b/c they certainly would have been featured on the show.  Since CJ has not had reassignment surgery yet ( and that is a topic clearly ooff the table where CJ is concerned) perhaps the middle of the road halt is for a reason  - rather be a cross dresser than an actual person with all encompassing female attributes? Dunno, just tossing it out there.




I'm not sure, I feel like she should have though before making a big decision like changing your gender (not counting THE surgery).


----------



## berrydiva

grand_duchess said:


> I maintain that Bruce was confused about who he wanted to be - he wanted to crossdress, not be a woman. If you ask Caitlin about being a woman, it's all about dressing up, make up, shallow crap like that. I don't think she'll ever be truly comfortable.





Oryx816 said:


> I'm with you.  I think Caitlyn is a persona, and Bruce is just a transvestite, not transgender.  Nevertheless, regardless of gender, I find this to be an objectionable human being, to say the least.



Agree.


----------



## pukasonqo

qudz104 said:


> I'm not sure, I feel like she should have though before making a big decision like changing your gender (not counting THE surgery).




is mandatory here in oz to have two years of counselling before any gender reassignment surgery can be performed
having said that, i had a gf that skipped all that and went to thailand to have the surgery; we lost touch so i hope she is ok
if bruce was miserable no amount of hormones, PS, nail polish or kitten heels is going to make caitlyn less bitter or miserable


----------



## Crystalina

Oryx816 said:


> Precisely.  Therefore he is a transvestite.




I totally agree with this![emoji106]&#127995;


----------



## V0N1B2

My personal opinion? I think Bruce Jenner was a closeted gay man.
There. I said it.


----------



## bag-princess

Oryx816 said:


> Precisely.  Therefore he is a transvestite.




THIS!


----------



## simone72

VickyB said:


> This.


I agree and don't think there will be ever such surgery!


----------



## simone72

v0n1b2 said:


> my personal opinion? I think bruce jenner was a closeted gay man.
> There. I said it.


+++1


----------



## limom

V0N1B2 said:


> My personal opinion? I think Bruce Jenner was a closeted gay man.
> There. I said it.



Is he a closeted man who happens to also be a tranvestite?
Why would he get breast implants then?


----------



## redney

V0N1B2 said:


> My personal opinion? I think Bruce Jenner was a closeted gay man.
> There. I said it.



This.


----------



## V0N1B2

limom said:


> Is he a closeted man who happens to also be a tranvestite?
> Why would he get breast implants then?


I think he identified strongly with women and wanted to transform into one. 
I think, and again MY OPINION, that she (formerly he) has always been attracted to men regardless of what she says in interviews.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

Nice to see a lot of opinions have changed since I was here last.


----------



## tweegy

Coach Lover Too said:


> Nice to see a lot of opinions have changed since I was here last.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] 

I still maintain something ain't adding up upstairs with Jenner.


----------



## Coach Lover Too

tweegy said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> I still maintain something ain't adding up upstairs with Jenner.



Me and you both! I think BJ started going over the edge before CJ!


----------



## Coach Lover Too

I noticed the word transvestite is being used more freely than it was a few months ago.
Not gonna say I told you so but.....


----------



## Oryx816

Coach Lover Too said:


> Nice to see a lot of opinions have changed since I was here last.




Welcome back Coach Lover Too!  

I always supported your right to your own opinion.  I took a "wait and see" approach because with this family, everything is suspect.  I feel his only interest in being a woman lies in the superficial--clothes, makeup, hair etc.  He is neither connected to the female experience, nor, apparently, to the transgender experience.  Frankly, I think he doesn't know what he is, he craves fame, and he seems deeply miserable.  

He did manage however, to unite the trans community with the rest of us, in a deep dislike for both Bruce and Caitlyn.


----------



## chowlover2

Coach Lover Too said:


> Me and you both! I think BJ started going over the edge before CJ!




Doll where have you been? We've missed you!


----------



## V0N1B2

Coach Lover Too said:


> I noticed the word transvestite is being used more freely than it was a few months ago.
> Not gonna say I told you so but.....


  Missed you dollface.


Oryx816 said:


> Welcome back Coach Lover Too!
> 
> I always supported your right to your own opinion.  I took a "wait and see" approach because with this family, everything is suspect.  I feel his only interest in being a woman lies in the superficial--clothes, makeup, hair etc.  He is neither connected to the female experience, nor, apparently, to the transgender experience.  Frankly, I think he doesn't know what he is, he craves fame, and he seems deeply miserable.
> 
> *He did manage however, to unite the trans community with the rest of us, in a deep dislike for both Bruce and Caitlyn.*


+1 
The best part of the article from USA Today that was quoted a few days ago was this comment:
_On Twitter, a message to Jenner from Eunic Ortiz read, "Please stop. You're hurting us. Sincerely, LGBT people everywhere."_

Listen, IDGAF about Caitlyn or her kitten heels, and I truly believe in ACCEPTANCE for and of all, but she is seriously suffering from White Male Priviledge Syndrome. (or WhiMPS for short)


----------



## VickyB

tweegy said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> I still maintain something ain't adding up upstairs with Jenner.



Can't say that I disagree.


----------



## VickyB

Coach Lover Too said:


> Nice to see a lot of opinions have changed since I was here last.



Hi!!!!!!


----------



## dangerouscurves

Coach Lover Too said:


> I noticed the word transvestite is being used more freely than it was a few months ago.
> Not gonna say I told you so but.....




Welcome back! Where have you been? Ban island?


----------



## limom

tweegy said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> I still maintain something ain't adding up upstairs with Jenner.


To say the least!



V0N1B2 said:


> I think he identified strongly with women and wanted to transform into one.
> I think, and again MY OPINION, that she (formerly he) has always been attracted to men regardless of what she says in interviews.


Remember the video where he wears a crop top?
He was flaming big time.



Oryx816 said:


> Welcome back Coach Lover Too!
> 
> Frankly, I think he doesn't know what he is, he craves fame, and he seems deeply miserable.
> 
> He did manage however, to unite the trans community with the rest of us, in a deep dislike for both Bruce and Caitlyn.



Yes, she has showed everyone and her sisters what an azzhole, she is.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I'm just giggling so damn hard!!!


----------



## Jayne1

V0N1B2 said:


> I think he identified strongly with women and wanted to transform into one.
> I think, and again MY OPINION, that she (formerly he) has always been attracted to men regardless of what she says in interviews.



I thought Jenner was always attracted to beautiful women?


----------



## pukasonqo

Jayne1 said:


> I thought Jenner was always attracted to beautiful women?




kompensation?
sometimes i think that not even caitlynn knows what she is...except for the fame whoring part, that she learnt from the best!


----------



## caitlin1214

Dave Barry once wrote that in old episodes of Keeping Up with the Kardashians, Bruce Jenner always had this smile on his face because he's the only one who has actually accomplished anything. 

Now she's Caitlyn and she's just as vain and vapid as the rest of them.


----------



## queen

Makes me wonder why someone with such confusion and challenges about gender and sexuality chooses to live it out in public.  Life could be so much easier if Jenner did not need to parade the complexities of the situation to get attention and compensation.


----------



## Sasha2012

She had just publicly revealed that she was on the hunt for her fourth spouse - but first husband. 

And as Caitlyn Jenner celebrated the season two premiere of I Am Cait with a night out on Sunday, it was clear the reality star had put a lot of thought into her outfit.

From her form-fitting shimmering striped pencil skirt to her strappy sandals, the 66-year-old was perfectly put together.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...revealing-s-ready-date-man.html#ixzz42HuBUlZO


----------



## redney

Ohhhhhhhh.


----------



## bag-princess

redney said:


> Ohhhhhhhh.





Exactly!!!


----------



## Oryx816

I will say it again, Jenner needs to work on the purse carrying skills.


----------



## krissa

She is def a Kardashian Bc they are upping the crazy statements to get people to tune in. I hate sharing politics, but I guess it's just that time of the year. She's so out of touch it's unreal. I wouldn't want her speaking for me if I was trans and I damn sure don't think she should speak for women at all. 

http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/3/07/caitlyn-jenner-no-fan-hillary-*******


----------



## bag-princess

krissa said:


> She is def a Kardashian Bc they are upping the crazy statements to get people to tune in. I hate sharing politics, but I guess it's just that time of the year. She's so out of touch it's unreal. *I wouldn't want her speaking for me if I was trans and I damn sure don't think she should speak for women at all. *
> 
> http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/3/07/caitlyn-jenner-no-fan-hillary-*******





ITA as a woman!   and from what i have read online from other trans - they don't want her speaking for them either.   even though she has appointed herself the new face.


----------



## chowlover2

krissa said:


> She is def a Kardashian Bc they are upping the crazy statements to get people to tune in. I hate sharing politics, but I guess it's just that time of the year. She's so out of touch it's unreal. I wouldn't want her speaking for me if I was trans and I damn sure don't think she should speak for women at all.
> 
> http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/3/07/caitlyn-jenner-no-fan-hillary-*******



Out of touch is putting it mildly. I have said it before and I'll ay it again, CJ needs to sit down and shut up.


----------



## limom

God, she is so stupid.
Why can't she just shut the f- up?
Oh yeah, she is a kardashian


----------



## dangerouscurves

krissa said:


> She is def a Kardashian Bc they are upping the crazy statements to get people to tune in. I hate sharing politics, but I guess it's just that time of the year. She's so out of touch it's unreal. I wouldn't want her speaking for me if I was trans and I damn sure don't think she should speak for women at all.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/3/07/caitlyn-jenner-no-fan-hillary-*******




That's it! No wonder the LGBT community dislike her!


----------



## qudz104

Lol


----------



## Grace123

qudz104 said:


> View attachment 3298175
> 
> lol



:d:d:d


----------



## queen

qudz104 said:


> View attachment 3298175
> 
> Lol


WOW!  That sums up the situation perfectly.


----------



## grand_duchess

I just cannot deal with her feet.


----------



## guccimamma

chowlover2 said:


> Out of touch is putting it mildly. I have said it before and I'll ay it again, CJ needs to sit down and shut up.



she's nuts. flat out. nothing to do with gender identity.


----------



## Encore Hermes

New face h&m sport





Look

Not going to comment on the ps.....now.... But? her leg?


----------



## labelwhore04

I just watched the latest episode of I am Cait. She is just living in her own world. She's straight up delusional.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Encore Hermes said:


> New face h&m sport
> look.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/scaled_620px_wide/cait-hm.jpg
> Look
> 
> Not going to comment on the ps.....now.... But? her leg?




Looks like a child's legs!


----------



## BagOuttaHell

She is a very confused individual. IMO.


----------



## CeeJay

labelwhore04 said:


> I just watched the latest episode of I am Cait. She is just living in her own world. She's straight up delusional.



You deserve a medal for even changing the channel to that drivel ..


----------



## Sasha2012

The Kardashian family boast more than a handful of business assets but one of their original money spinners is their debut clothing and fashion chain - Dash, founded in 2006.

And Caitlyn Jenner showed her support to her step-daughters' - Kim, 35, Khloe, 31, and Kourtney, 36 - boutique by stepping out in one of the line's branded T-shirts on Thursday.

The former Olympic athlete was pictured returning to her car following her latest coffee run in Los Angeles, California, dressed in a casually cool ensemble.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ed-skinny-jeans-coffee-run.html#ixzz43GxodPzY


----------



## PINKDIAMOND89

GOD I hope his show is canceled after this season.


----------



## usmcwifey

Were the legs always that thin? Or did she have them sculpted or something?


----------



## Jayne1

usmcwifey said:


> Were the legs always that thin? Or did she have them sculpted or something?



Men get very thin legs as they age.  Larger waists and skinny legs.  I guess the hormones couldn't counteract that in time.


----------



## lizmil

Maybe she could borrow from Kim.


----------



## Sasha2012

She is going from reality to award-winning television.

Caitlyn Jenner looked incredibly chic in a crimson wrap dress at Saturday's GLAAD Media Awards in Beverly Hills, California.

At the star-studded soiree, where it was revealed she is joining the cast of hit Amazon series Transparent alongside Jeffrey Tambor.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...es-gong-GLAAD-Media-Awards.html#ixzz44mjowj9U


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sasha2012 said:


> She is going from reality to award-winning television.
> 
> 
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner looked incredibly chic in a crimson wrap dress at Saturday's GLAAD Media Awards in Beverly Hills, California.
> 
> 
> 
> At the star-studded soiree, where it was revealed she is joining the cast of hit Amazon series Transparent alongside Jeffrey Tambor.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...es-gong-GLAAD-Media-Awards.html#ixzz44mjowj9U




Eh?? Did I miss something? What award-winning television?


----------



## V0N1B2

dangerouscurves said:


> Eh?? Did I miss something? What award-winning television?


She's going to be in the cast on Transparent.
Meh, there goes another great show down the sh!tter


----------



## LemonDrop

V0N1B2 said:


> She's going to be in the cast on Transparent.
> Meh, there goes another great show down the sh!tter



Yuck. I wonder if she is playing herself. I don't want that reality in that show. Having her really takes away from not adds to that show.


----------



## dangerouscurves

V0N1B2 said:


> She's going to be in the cast on Transparent.
> Meh, there goes another great show down the sh!tter




I see. Thanks. We don't have this show here [emoji4]


----------



## krissa

dangerouscurves said:


> I see. Thanks. We don't have this show here [emoji4]



It's an Amazon show. If you have Prime, you can stream it.


----------



## Luvbolide

Too bad some of these opportunities aren't opening up for folks with talent...beyond having once been married to a Kardashian.  This is getting ridiculous.


----------



## raffifi

why isn't she wearing a bra???


----------



## pukasonqo

raffifi said:


> why isn't she wearing a bra???




because she is a kartrashian (sort of)


----------



## White Orchid

I thought that white thing on the mic was some promo for a panty-liner at first :greengrin:


----------



## White Orchid




----------



## Oryx816

Jenner needs a bra--those boobs are lopsided.


----------



## Michele26

I wish she would cover those toes.


----------



## Grace123

Just GO away!!!!!


----------



## Crystalina

Those legs are SCARY!!!


----------



## uhpharm01

Sasha2012 said:


> She is going from reality to award-winning television.
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner looked incredibly chic in a crimson wrap dress at Saturday's GLAAD Media Awards in Beverly Hills, California.
> 
> At the star-studded soiree, where it was revealed she is joining the cast of hit Amazon series Transparent alongside Jeffrey Tambor.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...es-gong-GLAAD-Media-Awards.html#ixzz44mjowj9U


she needs to wear those plastic things that cover stop your headlights from showing through your bra.


----------



## redney

uhpharm01 said:


> she needs to wear those plastic things that cover stop your headlights from showing through your bra.



or just wear a bra.

No one needs to see a 66 year old's nipples. No one.


----------



## arnott

Here's her acceptance speech at the GLAAD awards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IMvY2zUPI4


----------



## chowlover2

uhpharm01 said:


> she needs to wear those plastic things that cover stop your headlights from showing through your bra.




Truth!


----------



## White Orchid

Michele26 said:


> I wish she would cover those toes.


She should put a paper bag over her head for the rest of humanity.


----------



## pukasonqo

White Orchid said:


> She should put a paper bag over her head for the rest of humanity.




what?! and take away from us, mere mortals,the joy of seeing her face plastered in ever rag or tv show????


----------



## aleksandras

redney said:


> or just wear a bra.
> 
> *No one needs to see a 66 year old's nipples. No one.*



+1. Theres's really no reason to not wear a bra with a dress like that.


----------



## bag-princess

redney said:


> or just wear a bra.
> 
> No one needs to see a 66 year old's nipples. No one.


----------



## PINKDIAMOND89

I wish people would stop calling Bruce HER, he is not a HER.  No more than Rachel Dolezal is black.  Rachel permed her hair, wore dark tanner and Bruce wears makeup, got a boob job and plays dress up...  The difference???   Cut off your balls and bat Bruce if you're really a woman now, you entitled freak.


----------



## Crystalina

PINKDIAMOND89 said:


> I wish people would stop calling Bruce HER, he is not a HER.  No more than Rachel Dolezal is black.  Rachel permed her hair, wore dark tanner and Bruce wears makeup, got a boob job and plays dress up...  The difference???   Cut off your balls and bat Bruce if you're really a woman now, you entitled freak.




LOVE THIS POST!!!! [emoji171][emoji122]&#127995;[emoji106]&#127995;


----------



## bag-princess

PINKDIAMOND89 said:


> I wish people would stop calling Bruce HER, he is not a HER.  No more than Rachel Dolezal is black.  Rachel permed her hair, wore dark tanner and Bruce wears makeup, got a boob job and plays dress up...  The difference???   Cut off your balls and bat Bruce if you're really a woman now, you entitled freak.


----------



## Oryx816

PINKDIAMOND89 said:


> I wish people would stop calling Bruce HER, he is not a HER.  No more than Rachel Dolezal is black.  Rachel permed her hair, wore dark tanner and Bruce wears makeup, got a boob job and plays dress up...  The difference???   Cut off your balls and bat Bruce if you're really a woman now, you entitled freak.





I just refer to him as Jenner.  I also don't refer to people who "believe" or "feel like" they are the Pope, "Your Holiness".


----------



## aleksandras

PINKDIAMOND89 said:


> I wish people would stop calling Bruce HER, he is not a HER.  No more than Rachel Dolezal is black.  Rachel permed her hair, wore dark tanner and Bruce wears makeup, got a boob job and plays dress up...  The difference???   Cut off your balls and bat Bruce if you're really a woman now, you entitled freak.



 :lolots:


----------



## dangerouscurves

Grace123 said:


> Just GO away!!!!!




+1 she and her family just need to buy a one way ticket to Mars and never return.


----------



## chowlover2

PINKDIAMOND89 said:


> I wish people would stop calling Bruce HER, he is not a HER.  No more than Rachel Dolezal is black.  Rachel permed her hair, wore dark tanner and Bruce wears makeup, got a boob job and plays dress up...  The difference???   Cut off your balls and bat Bruce if you're really a woman now, you entitled freak.




True!


----------



## pukasonqo

dangerouscurves said:


> +1 she and her family just need to buy a one way ticket to Mars and never return.




if there was life on mars they would probably return them to sender...
so what has kaitlynn, patron saint of the LGBT community (in her mind) being doing to help empower LGBT rights and individuals?
me bad, she wore red!!


----------



## dangerouscurves

pukasonqo said:


> if there was life on mars they would probably return them to sender...
> so what has kaitlynn, patron saint of the LGBT community (in her mind) being doing to help empower LGBT rights and individuals?
> me bad, she wore red!!




Noooooooo they're persona non grata on earth.


----------



## krissa

"Finally Free". Ugh.


----------



## DC-Cutie

PINKDIAMOND89 said:


> I wish people would stop calling Bruce HER, he is not a HER.  No more than Rachel Dolezal is black.  Rachel permed her hair, wore dark tanner and Bruce wears makeup, got a boob job and plays dress up...  The difference???   Cut off your balls and bat Bruce if you're really a woman now, you entitled freak.



Cut off your balls


----------



## berrydiva

Caitlyn has been airbrushed for all of the deities in that ad.


----------



## shaznayk

I am in the UK just watched an episode where Cait totally blanked Scott over dinner. I felt quite bad for Scott. Bruce was awful as a man and is worse as a woman!


----------



## ManilaMama

shaznayk said:


> I am in the UK just watched an episode where Cait totally blanked Scott over dinner. I felt quite bad for Scott. Bruce was awful as a man and is worse as a woman!




Sorry cultural difference here but what does "blanked over" mean? 

Bruce was mean to Scott? 

Gosh that MAC ad made me want to get rid of my MAC lipsticks..


----------



## CeeJay

One would think that 'she' would be tired of having to hide the bat & balls at this point .. 

*
*

*'I'm really not comfortable with it':  Caitlyn Jenner admits she's still not sure about undergoing gender confirmation surgery*



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ender-confirmation-surgery.html#ixzz45fO0a7cE 
http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail
​


----------



## uhpharm01

CeeJay said:


> One would think that 'she' would be tired of having to hide the bat & balls at this point ..
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *'I'm really not comfortable with it':  Caitlyn Jenner admits she's still not sure about undergoing gender confirmation surgery*
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ender-confirmation-surgery.html#ixzz45fO0a7cE
> http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail
> ​


Yep


----------



## dangerouscurves

CeeJay said:


> One would think that 'she' would be tired of having to hide the bat & balls at this point ..
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *'I'm really not comfortable with it':  Caitlyn Jenner admits she's still not sure about undergoing gender confirmation surgery*
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ender-confirmation-surgery.html#ixzz45fO0a7cE
> http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail
> ​




She's weird. All the transsexual friends I have, to have a punani is their goal.


----------



## pukasonqo

CeeJay said:


> One would think that 'she' would be tired of having to hide the bat & balls at this point ..
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *'I'm really not comfortable with it':  Caitlyn Jenner admits she's still not sure about undergoing gender confirmation surgery*
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ender-confirmation-surgery.html#ixzz45fO0a7cE
> http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail
> ​




it is not an easy surgery so i can understand her not wanting to go through it but it does leave her in a gray area, is she transsexual or a cross dresser? and, not wanting to be mean, but how can she consider herself a she when the equipment is still in the basement?
muy confusing...


----------



## CeeJay

pukasonqo said:


> it is not an easy surgery so i can understand her not wanting to go through it but it does leave her in a gray area, is she transsexual or a cross dresser? and, not wanting to be mean, but how can she consider herself a she when the equipment is still in the basement?
> muy confusing...



Totally agree, and remember .. 'she' originally said that she wanted to date women and then .. she said she wanted to date a man.  I admit my ignorance on this, but why would a man want to date her .. when she still has the equipment same as him?  I very rarely watch any of the 'K' shows, but the other night caught a few minutes of KUWTK when Kendall is talking to Caitlyn/Bruce and very upset because Caitlyn was insistent on going to the Victoria Secret show and Kendall didn't want ANY OF THEM to be there.  It just really wreaked of Caitlyn's insensitivity to anything other than for HER.


----------



## Junkenpo

I think it's worthless to get worked up over how people define their gender and sexuality.  Plus, there's someone for everyone out there, no matter where one is on the spectrum. 

 If Bruce wants to be called Cait and looks like a woman  (sorta) and uses feminine pronouns, it doesn't change the axis of my life in the slightest. I think I'm more put off by entitlement/class attitudes and overall pettiness and meanness.  Cait is just not a nice _person_, no matter how we define gender.


----------



## usmcwifey

Not sure how heavy recovery is from this surgery but I imagine at her age its not worth doing it anymore. That's just my opinion.


----------



## berrydiva

Junkenpo said:


> I think it's worthless to get worked up over how people define their gender and sexuality.  Plus, there's someone for everyone out there, no matter where one is on the spectrum.
> 
> If Bruce wants to be called Cait and looks like a woman  (sorta) and uses feminine pronouns, it doesn't change the axis of my life in the slightest. I think I'm more put off by entitlement/class attitudes and overall pettiness and meanness.  Cait is just not a nice _person_, no matter how we define gender.



Agreed.


----------



## bisousx

CeeJay said:


> Totally agree, and remember .. 'she' originally said that she wanted to date women and then .. she said she wanted to date a man.  I admit my ignorance on this, but why would a man want to date her .. when she still has the equipment same as him?  I very rarely watch any of the 'K' shows, but the other night caught a few minutes of KUWTK when Kendall is talking to Caitlyn/Bruce and very upset because Caitlyn was insistent on going to the Victoria Secret show and Kendall didn't want ANY OF THEM to be there.  It just really wreaked of Caitlyn's insensitivity to anything other than for HER.



Because that's what many men want, whether we like to hear that or not. I once hung out with a tranny girl (pre op) and was very shocked at how many cute young guys slipped her their number even though it was obvious she used to be a man (masculine build, facial features, voice etc). In fact, this lady had a few of our guy friend's phone #s in her phone, so you never really know who's into what kinda stuff. Recently I was in Thailand, drove past the red light district and saw tuk tuks (some kind of open vehicle like a cheap Jeep) FULL of young men driving to the ladyboy bars.


----------



## CeeJay

Junkenpo said:


> I think it's worthless to get worked up over how people define their gender and sexuality.  Plus, there's someone for everyone out there, no matter where one is on the spectrum.
> 
> If Bruce wants to be called Cait and looks like a woman  (sorta) and uses feminine pronouns, it doesn't change the axis of my life in the slightest. I think I'm more put off by entitlement/class attitudes and overall pettiness and meanness.  *Cait is just not a nice person, no matter how we define gender*.



Agreed, trust me .. it's not something I think about every day, but I was really appalled by her behavior.  So, you are 100% on-point with your comment above!


----------



## pukasonqo

Junkenpo said:


> I think it's worthless to get worked up over how people define their gender and sexuality.  Plus, there's someone for everyone out there, no matter where one is on the spectrum.
> 
> 
> 
> If Bruce wants to be called Cait and looks like a woman  (sorta) and uses feminine pronouns, it doesn't change the axis of my life in the slightest. I think I'm more put off by entitlement/class attitudes and overall pettiness and meanness.  Cait is just not a nice _person_, no matter how we define gender.




good post!


----------



## queen

I do not get worked up about it but I do find it painful to see pics of Jenner and to hearing the whine.  Any group that gets protected class thinks they can say and do whatever while the rest of us have to watch everything we say and do.  I have said this here before that I have met and spoken with a male to female transexual who had experienced severe mistreatment.  This person was living life and not trying to publicize the problems and hurt they experienced in life.  A caring, giving person.  I do get heartburn from people who think they are going to whip the rest of the world into catering to them.  Live and let live is what I do.  Please don't force feed yourself on the rest of us.  You usually get the respect you give.


----------



## Oryx816

queen said:


> I do not get worked up about it but I do find it painful to see pics of Jenner and to hearing the whine.  Any group that gets protected class thinks they can say and do whatever while the rest of us have to watch everything we say and do.  I have said this here before that I have met and spoken with a male to female transexual who had experienced severe mistreatment.  This person was living life and not trying to publicize the problems and hurt they experienced in life.  A caring, giving person.  I do get heartburn from people who think they are going to whip the rest of the world into catering to them.  Live and let live is what I do.  Please don't force feed yourself on the rest of us.  You usually get the respect you give.




All of this!


----------



## Katel

queen said:


> I do not get worked up about it but I do find it painful to see pics of Jenner and to hearing the whine.  Any group that gets protected class thinks they can say and do whatever while the rest of us have to watch everything we say and do.  I have said this here before that I have met and spoken with a male to female transexual who had experienced severe mistreatment.  This person was living life and not trying to publicize the problems and hurt they experienced in life.  A caring, giving person.  I do get heartburn from people who think they are going to whip the rest of the world into catering to them.  Live and let live is what I do.  Please don't force feed yourself on the rest of us.  You usually get the respect you give.



^^^ yes x 1000000!


----------



## chowlover2

queen said:


> I do not get worked up about it but I do find it painful to see pics of Jenner and to hearing the whine.  Any group that gets protected class thinks they can say and do whatever while the rest of us have to watch everything we say and do.  I have said this here before that I have met and spoken with a male to female transexual who had experienced severe mistreatment.  This person was living life and not trying to publicize the problems and hurt they experienced in life.  A caring, giving person.  I do get heartburn from people who think they are going to whip the rest of the world into catering to them.  Live and let live is what I do.  Please don't force feed yourself on the rest of us.  You usually get the respect you give.




Excellent post!


----------



## TC1

Bruce was an entitled jerk. Caitlyn is an entitled jerk. Gender aside...no amount of surgery will fix THAT.


----------



## pukasonqo

TC1 said:


> Bruce was an entitled jerk. Caitlyn is an entitled jerk. Gender aside...no amount of surgery will fix THAT.




yup, i think that is my main issue with her
regardless of gender, she remains a self absorbed, entitled being


----------



## pukasonqo

queen said:


> I do not get worked up about it but I do find it painful to see pics of Jenner and to hearing the whine.  Any group that gets protected class thinks they can say and do whatever while the rest of us have to watch everything we say and do.  I have said this here before that I have met and spoken with a male to female transexual who had experienced severe mistreatment.  This person was living life and not trying to publicize the problems and hurt they experienced in life.  A caring, giving person.  I do get heartburn from people who think they are going to whip the rest of the world into catering to them.  Live and let live is what I do.  Please don't force feed yourself on the rest of us.  You usually get the respect you give.




well said


----------



## labelwhore04

usmcwifey said:


> Not sure how heavy recovery is from this surgery but I imagine at her age its not worth doing it anymore. That's just my opinion.



True, Cait is 66, what's the point of doing the surgery so late in life? Recovery will be so difficult, it's not really worth it.


----------



## berrydiva

TC1 said:


> Bruce was an entitled jerk. Caitlyn is an entitled jerk. Gender aside...no amount of surgery will fix THAT.



Yep.


----------



## V0N1B2

I seriously doubt complications from surgery are the reason for Caitlyn not getting the dingle nicked.
Caitlyn is a healthy, fit 66 year old. Much frailer people have had much more invasive surgeries and recovered just fine.  
66 isn't old.


----------



## chowlover2

V0N1B2 said:


> I seriously doubt complications from surgery are the reason for Caitlyn not getting the dingle nicked.
> 
> Caitlyn is a healthy, fit 66 year old. Much frailer people have had much more invasive surgeries and recovered just fine.
> 
> 66 isn't old.




Yes and CJ did that bone shaving procedure on his face, around forehead. I think that would be nasty.


----------



## gillianna

He can play dress up and get the press coverage he seems to crave more than when he was Bruce.  He went along with it on the show but now he wants to be a total diva in every way possible.  He is not a role model for the trans community.


----------



## ChanelMommy

gillianna said:


> He can play dress up and get the press coverage he seems to crave more than when he was Bruce.  He went along with it on the show but now he wants to be a total diva in every way possible.  He is not a role model for the trans community.



Agree.


----------



## GhstDreamer

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using PurseForum mobile app


----------



## DC-Cutie

gillianna said:


> He can play dress up and get the press coverage he seems to crave more than when he was Bruce.  He went along with it on the show but now he wants to be a total diva in every way possible.  He is not a role model for the trans community.



You can tell her other rent-a-friends ain't really feeling Caitlyn.  In the show they just look at her like WTF???


----------



## chowlover2

DC-Cutie said:


> You can tell her other rent-a-friends ain't really feeling Caitlyn.  In the show they just look at her like WTF???



I really like all the trans women on the show, Cait is the one I have a problem with. Such an entitled a$$hole! The show would be so much better without her on it!


----------



## Sasha2012

She's not afraid to make a fashion statement.

But on Friday, Caitlyn Jenner kept things sartorially simple for a coffee run in Malibu.

The 66-year-old former Olympian flaunted her long legs in a pair of flared, bodycon jeans with a high waist.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ms-steps-coffee-run-Malibu.html#ixzz46cePbWX0


----------



## chowlover2

Sasha2012 said:


> She's not afraid to make a fashion statement.
> 
> 
> 
> But on Friday, Caitlyn Jenner kept things sartorially simple for a coffee run in Malibu.
> 
> 
> 
> The 66-year-old former Olympian flaunted her long legs in a pair of flared, bodycon jeans with a high waist.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ms-steps-coffee-run-Malibu.html#ixzz46cePbWX0




She still looks like a man in that first pic, oops I mean all un-photoshopped pics.


----------



## queen

chowlover2 said:


> She still looks like a man in that first pic, oops I mean all un-photoshopped pics.


There is a reason for that.


----------



## chowlover2

queen said:


> There is a reason for that.




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## qudz104

So apparently cj is going to pose nude for SI. Cjs only going to pose in the medal BRUCE won and a flag.


----------



## berrydiva

qudz104 said:


> So apparently cj is going to pose nude for SI. Cjs only going to pose in the medal BRUCE won and a flag.



When you say nude....*blank stare*

All I can think about is Ms. Garrison from south park.


----------



## qudz104

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/05/caitlyn-jenner-naked-sports-illustrated-cover.html

Forty years after she won the decathlon at the 1976 Montreal Summer Games, Caitlyn Jenner will reportedly pose naked on a cover of Sports Illustrated this summer wearing nothing but an American flag and her Olympic medal, reports Us Weekly. It will be the first time she's posed with the gold medal since her transition.

The award has apparently been hidden in Jenner's makeup drawer. Writing about her "most-prized possession" for the Huffington Post last year, Jenner explained why:

I never wanted my kids to feel like they had to have a gold medal in order to be considered a success. I didnt want them to constantly compare their own achievements to my time in the Olympics, so I havent displayed my medal.
Caitlyn Jenner: queen of magazine covers, reality TV, and Donald *****'s bathroom.

We've reached out to Sports Illustrated for comment and will update this post as soon as we hear back.


----------



## bag-princess

qudz104 said:


> So apparently cj is going to pose nude for SI. Cjs only going to pose in the medal BRUCE won and a flag.





nogood:


----------



## Jayne1

Will the cover be realistic?


----------



## Cinamonn_girl

My eyes!


----------



## Grace123

berrydiva said:


> When you say nude....*blank stare*
> 
> All I can think about is Ms. Garrison from south park.


----------



## redney

Does Sports Illustrated understand their reader base? My guess is that many are not supportive of CJ's transition, ifyouknowwhatimean.


----------



## bag-mania

redney said:


> Does Sports Illustrated understand their reader base? My guess is that many are not supportive of CJ's transition, ifyouknowwhatimean.



They're jumping on the "see, we're inclusive!" bandwagon. With magazine subscriptions at an all-time low, many magazines are looking for an angle that will get them talked about in the media again and at least bump up single issue purchases.


----------



## knasarae

So I have a question... it's not meant to offend anyone, I would really like to know as far as regulations.  If a transgendered person wanted to compete in the Olympics.. would they have to compete as the gender they were born with or what they identified as?


----------



## lovely

HAHA didn't Kris pose in a picture with an American flag and his medal back in the day on Keeping up the Kardashians? I'm so embarrassed I remember this...


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

knasarae said:


> So I have a question... it's not meant to offend anyone, I would really like to know as far as regulations.  If a transgendered person wanted to compete in the Olympics.. would they have to compete as the gender they were born with or what they identified as?




In Rio they are competing with the gender they identify with.


----------



## bag-mania

knasarae said:


> So I have a question... it's not meant to offend anyone, I would really like to know as far as regulations.  If a transgendered person wanted to compete in the Olympics.. would they have to compete as the gender they were born with or what they identified as?



The policy was changed earlier this year. It will be the gender they identify with and no surgery required.



> *Transgender atheletes to be allowed to compete as the other sex in the Olympics WITHOUT having gender reassignment surgery*
> 
> The Olympics are reportedly adopting a new policy that opens the field of competition to transgender athletes.
> 
> The  International Olympic Committee received proposed guidelines in  November from its 'Consensus Meeting on Sex Reassignment and  Hyperandrogenism', which allow for broader policies that would include  transgender athletes.
> 
> Olympic  officials have not confirmed the new guidelines, which have already  been adopted by other regulatory sports organizations, but the policy is  available on the organization's website.
> 
> The policy  change would be in line with NCAA standards in the United States, which  allow male-to-female and female-to-male transgender athletes to compete  without having gender reassignment surgery, according to ESPN.
> 
> The  current Olympic rules acknowledge transgender athletes' right to  compete, but with specific provisions under the Stockholm Consensus,  which was adopted in 2004.
> 
> The  policies, adopted before the Athens Olympics, say transgender athletes  have to have gender reassignment surgery and have legal recognition of  the gender they were assigned at birth. They also have to have undergone  at least two years of hormone replacement therapy after surgery.
> 
> The  proposed new rules would allow transgender athletes to compete after  one year of hormone replacement therapy and no surgery is required.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ender-reassignment-surgery.html#ixzz47nhbLwfP
> 
> ​​​


----------



## knasarae

Thanks!

So I know there are regulations on vitamins, enhancing drugs, etc.  So I'm assuming that doesn't interfere? (i.e. hormones, testosterone, etc)


----------



## bag-mania

knasarae said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So I know there are regulations on vitamins, enhancing drugs, etc.  So I'm assuming that doesn't interfere? (i.e. hormones, testosterone, etc)



I don't know how they figure all that out. I recall reading somewhere that male to female transgender athletes' testosterone levels had to be under a certain amount.


----------



## redney

lovely said:


> HAHA didn't Kris pose in a picture with an American flag and his medal back in the day on Keeping up the Kardashians? I'm so embarrassed I remember this...



You mean this??


----------



## kemilia

qudz104 said:


> So apparently cj is going to pose nude for SI. Cjs only going to pose in the medal BRUCE won and a flag.


Fortunately, flags come in a lot of sizes.


----------



## labelwhore04

CuTe_ClAsSy said:


> In Rio they are competing with the gender they identify with.



I don't really think that's fair in a way. Men and women are physically different and a biological male would be at a physical advantage. It's a tough one. While i completely believe transgender people should have full rights, it's a grey area when it comes to sports. I mean there's a reason why men and women compete within their own sex, it wouldn't be fair to have them competing against eachother when one sex has a physical advantage. But on the other hand, it also doesn't seem right to force them to acknowledge themselves as another gender to compete.


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

labelwhore04 said:


> I don't really think that's fair in a way. Men and women are physically different and a biological male would be at a physical advantage. It's a tough one. While i completely believe transgender people should have full rights, it's a grey area when it comes to sports. I mean there's a reason why men and women compete within their own sex, it wouldn't be fair to have them competing against eachother when one sex has a physical advantage. But on the other hand, it also doesn't seem right to force them to acknowledge themselves as another gender to compete.



Transgender women have to have undergone hormone therapy for at least a year and have their testosterone level below a certain threshold for at least a year before the competition. The more difficult issue I imagine is intersex people and women with high testosterone due to hyperandrogenism/pcos. 

The guidelines are in the blue box in this article: 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...thout-having-gender-reassignment-surgery.html


----------



## krissa

It's def not fair to bio females who don't have the biological advantages mtf will be born with.


----------



## amoxie92

I'm so over this transitioning s**t Good for her for finally living in her truth, but the way she has handled her family, I think, has been mean, disrespectful and completely selfish. She could care  less the pain she has put her family through. You can say whatever you want about the Kardashians, I've definitely had enough of them, but Caitlyn's "me" attitude towards them has been a real turn off. She's not a nice person...


----------



## berrydiva

labelwhore04 said:


> I don't really think that's fair in a way. Men and women are physically different and a biological male would be at a physical advantage. It's a tough one. While i completely believe transgender people should have full rights, it's a grey area when it comes to sports. I mean there's a reason why men and women compete within their own sex, it wouldn't be fair to have them competing against eachother when one sex has a physical advantage. But on the other hand, it also doesn't seem right to force them to acknowledge themselves as another gender to compete.


You make a good point. However, I would be interested in seeing how the increased estrogen and reduced testosterone impacts that physical difference.


----------



## lovely

Lol yup! Too bad she did it first Caitlyn.


----------



## arnott

qudz104 said:


> So apparently cj is going to pose nude for SI. Cjs only going to pose in the medal BRUCE won and a flag.



I'm here for it!


----------



## arnott

redney said:


> You mean this??



Why!


----------



## redney

arnott said:


> Why!



IKR? That lady loves the spotlight anyway she can get it.


----------



## limom

labelwhore04 said:


> I don't really think that's fair in a way. Men and women are physically different and a biological male would be at a physical advantage. It's a tough one. While i completely believe transgender people should have full rights, it's a grey area when it comes to sports. I mean there's a reason why men and women compete within their own sex, it wouldn't be fair to have them competing against eachother when one sex has a physical advantage. But on the other hand, it also doesn't seem right to force them to acknowledge themselves as another gender to compete.



I have to agree with your statement.
It is pure bullcrap and discriminatory against naturally born women.
Why even bother to compete if the field is utterly uneven?
This is taking it too far.
Once again, women get the short end of the stick,
Absolutely disgusting. Period.


----------



## sdkitty

This has gone from bizarre to boring for me.....I couldn't care less what she does


----------



## dangerouscurves

labelwhore04 said:


> I don't really think that's fair in a way. Men and women are physically different and a biological male would be at a physical advantage. It's a tough one. While i completely believe transgender people should have full rights, it's a grey area when it comes to sports. I mean there's a reason why men and women compete within their own sex, it wouldn't be fair to have them competing against eachother when one sex has a physical advantage. But on the other hand, it also doesn't seem right to force them to acknowledge themselves as another gender to compete.




As much as I support LGBT's right, I have to agree with your statement. They should only allow this once the TG athletes have had SRS.


----------



## limom

dangerouscurves said:


> As much as I support LGBT's right, I have to agree with your statement. They should only allow this once the TG athletes have had SRS.



Even after the surgery, a male individual who has gone thru puberty has a biological advantage.
Let say that Bruce transitioned in his early twenties, it would still be impossible for a woman to compete with her.
I wonder how many women who transitioned into males will be competing and if so in what events?
So much bullchit.


----------



## qudz104

limom said:


> Even after the surgery, a male individual who has gone thru puberty has a biological advantage.
> 
> Let say that Bruce transitioned in his early twenties, it would still be impossible for a woman to compete with her.
> 
> I wonder how many women who transitioned into males will be competing and if so in what events?
> 
> So much bullchit.




Agreed, surgery and hormones might help a little bit it certainly wouldn't equalize the playing field of a naturally born male and a naturally born female. 
Unfair as it is, I'm not sure where a tg athlete would be better off competing in.


----------



## shiba

This is an interesting article on a female to male TG student who competes in the gender he identifies with.

http://www.people.com/article/transgender-harvard-swimmer-freshman-


----------



## White Orchid

I just want to know who would want to see Bruce naked????


----------



## Oryx816

White Orchid said:


> I just want to know who would want to see Bruce naked????




Whether male or female, I wouldn't.


----------



## White Orchid

I don't even like looking at myself naked, let alone him with his arthritic knees and so on.  Like eew!



Oryx816 said:


> Whether male or female, I wouldn't.


----------



## Junkenpo

shiba said:


> This is an interesting article on a female to male TG student who competes in the gender he identifies with.



That is interesting... but I wonder about that, too.  Earned the scholarship to compete on the women's team, transitioned during the gap year, and then was allowed to swim for the men's team. 

I wonder what the terms of the scholarship were.... would he have qualified for a men's scholarship initially?  Did Harvard just sort of "make room" on the men's team? Did Harvard offer another woman a scholarship to replace?


----------



## limom

Junkenpo said:


> That is interesting... but I wonder about that, too.  Earned the scholarship to compete on the women's team, transitioned during the gap year, and then was allowed to swim for the men's team.
> 
> I wonder what the terms of the scholarship were.... would he have qualified for a men's scholarship initially?  Did Harvard just sort of "make room" on the men's team? Did Harvard offer another woman a scholarship to replace?



A scholarship for an athlete who is  actually no longer competitive.
Is this what title ix is about now?


----------



## tweegy

Posing naked? So its official then. He's transitioned....into a Kardashian...


----------



## chowlover2

tweegy said:


> Posing naked? So its official then. He's transitioned....into a Kardashian...


----------



## Oryx816

tweegy said:


> Posing naked? So its official then. He's transitioned....into a Kardashian...


----------



## saira1214

So I just read that Caitlin is experiencing transition regret and may de-transition. Anyone else see this?


----------



## DC-Cutie

saira1214 said:


> So I just read that Caitlin is experiencing transition regret and may de-transition. Anyone else see this?



talk about mass confusion!


----------



## ManilaMama

saira1214 said:


> So I just read that Caitlin is experiencing transition regret and may de-transition. Anyone else see this?



You know I am not PC or anything and I really don't now a thing about transitioning or all that stuff.. But I am not ashamed of my ignorance so I must ask..

Is transitioning taking the meds to change hormones??

Transitioning is not changing your private parts right?

Which one did Bruce/Caitlyn do?

Anyway, how do you de-transition? Gee this really is very confusing, especially to folks like me who have no idea what it's all about!


----------



## qudz104

ManilaMama said:


> You know I am not PC or anything and I really don't now a thing about transitioning or all that stuff.. But I am not ashamed of my ignorance so I must ask..
> 
> 
> 
> Is transitioning taking the meds to change hormones??
> 
> 
> 
> Transitioning is not changing your private parts right?
> 
> 
> 
> Which one did Bruce/Caitlyn do?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, how do you de-transition? Gee this really is very confusing, especially to folks like me who have no idea what it's all about!




I don't know too much so I will talk based off assumption... Apologies of I'm too off!
From my understanding, CJ never got "the surgery" so that part is easy to deal with.. And I assume that once one stops taking the hormones required, they would gain some of their previous genders qualities. I remember reading about "the pregnant man" who of course had to stop hormones while pregnant so the voice softened and some of the feminine characteristics returned till he went back to taking his hormones. I haven't really followed him after hat so I'm not sure how else it went down.


----------



## ManilaMama

qudz104 said:


> I don't know too much so I will talk based off assumption... Apologies of I'm too off!
> From my understanding, CJ never got "the surgery" so that part is easy to deal with.. And I assume that once one stops taking the hormones required, they would gain some of their previous genders qualities. I remember reading about "the pregnant man" who of course had to stop hormones while pregnant so the voice softened and some of the feminine characteristics returned till he went back to taking his hormones. I haven't really followed him after hat so I'm not sure how else it went down.



Thanks! It's still so very confusing... why will he want to stop meds if he has already endured it for some time? He wants to look male again? How about his boobs? And all the other plastic surgery he has done to look more feminine? Oh my goodness, this stuff is too much to think about!  Maybe it's not even true that he want's to re-transition.


----------



## Luvbolide

saira1214 said:


> So I just read that Caitlin is experiencing transition regret and may de-transition. Anyone else see this?




Yes, I have seen the same reports - supposedly a new biographer is going to include it in an upcoming book.  There is some speculation that Caitlin will re-transition in 2 to 3 years.  Can't imagine what that would do to one's body - all those surgeries and hormones and treatments.

This article mentions that Caitlin is still attracted to women and wants to find a nice woman.

No fool like an old fool, I guess.  What a mess....I guess I am dreaming to wish that Caitlin could do one thing without filling the press in on it.  Some things can be kept private.  Oh never mind, she has lived for too long in the land of the tiny-brained ultra-superficial ones...

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment...lyn-Jenner-Experienced-Sex-Change-7462964.php


----------



## tweegy

DC-Cutie said:


> talk about mass confusion!



Talk about mass BS... (from Jenner)


----------



## CeeJay

Here's the article in the Daily Mail .. 


*Caitlyn Jenner may 'detransition back to Bruce after suffering from sex change regret' claims longtime friend*



*Caitlyn Jenner may detransition back to Bruce according to multiple sources who spoke with Ian Halperin *
*Halperin recently released the book, Kardashian Dynasty: The Controversial Rise of Americas Royal Family *
*Halperin  claims one longtime friend of Jenner told him; 'I think theres a  chance shell de-transition in the next couple years' *
*He also claims that multiple sources told him it is because Jenner is still attracted to women *
*Jenner revealed she was transitioning in an interview with Diane Sawyer last April*
*She later appeared on the July cover of Vanity Fair wearing a white satin bustier with the words 'I Am Caitlyn' *

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ret-claims-longtime-friend.html#ixzz48RzptRTX 

​


----------



## saira1214

There is nothing they won't do for attention/fame. It is really sad.


----------



## mkr

He's just a cross-dresser.


----------



## DC-Cutie

saira1214 said:


> there is nothing they won't do for attention/fame. It is really sad.



bingo!


----------



## ChanelMommy

tweegy said:


> Posing naked? So its official then. He's transitioned....into a Kardashian...


----------



## lanasyogamama

Yeah, but he got a show out of it so it was worth it!


----------



## bag-mania

It goes back to what we were saying last year. Bruce/Caitlyn doesn't have a clue what he/she wants. The change was probably done in the hopes that it would make life happier but it didn't.


----------



## mkr

Maybe he can get back together with Kris...


----------



## CuTe_ClAsSy

bag-mania said:


> It goes back to what we were saying last year. Bruce/Caitlyn doesn't have a clue what he/she wants. The change was probably done in the hopes that it would make life happier but it didn't.




I agree. She has always seemed unfulfilled. Since the reason cited is "because she's still attracted to women" I wonder if she's uncomfortable being gay. Even after her transition she maintained a negative stance on gay marriage for a while. I get the impression that she's very confused.


----------



## chowlover2

I think CJ is really attracted to Candis from the show. And the whole lesbian thing doesn't sit well with her conservative beliefs.


----------



## pukasonqo

she should have remained a cross dresser, all that hullabaloo about caitlyn being an advocate for  LGTB rights when the only person caitlyn gives a toss about is her and herself only


----------



## dangerouscurves

pukasonqo said:


> she should have remained a cross dresser, all that hullabaloo about caitlyn being an advocate for  LGTB rights when the only person caitlyn gives a toss about is her and herself only




But then she/he wouldn't have been seen in positive light, wouldn't have gotten the show and VF cover.


----------



## pukasonqo

dangerouscurves said:


> But then she/he wouldn't have been seen in positive light, wouldn't have gotten the show and VF cover.




it would have been more honest with herself but you are right, she has achieved soooo much!
a legend in her own lunchtime


----------



## GoGlam

mkr said:


> He's just a cross-dresser.




I believe so too. I think he really got off on dressing like a woman and took it as far as he thought he wanted... And is probably regretting now.


----------



## labelwhore04

Caitlyn will never de transition. She's invested way too much into her new identity. Shes had her own show, shes won awards, etc. She will never be able to go back to Bruce without being shunned by the public. Imagine how outraged people would be. Even if she does feel regret, she'll never publicly express it IMO.


----------



## Wildflower22

Playing devil's advocate, if her gender truly is fluid, why would it matter if she transitions back? It would fit right in with the concept that gender can continually change. I do agree it's probably not wise to make the leap (surgeries and all) at once without testing the waters. People called her transition in the first place so it wouldn't surprise me if she goes right on back to Bruce.


----------



## mkr

On the other hand, if he stays the way he is and wants to date women, think of how appealling he might be to a lesbian.  Think about it, a woman with a penis...


----------



## CobaltBlu

mkr said:


> On the other hand, if he stays the way he is and wants to date women, think of how appealling he might be to a lesbian.  Think about it, a woman with a penis...



uh.....thats not what every lesbian dreams of....


----------



## dangerouscurves

CobaltBlu said:


> uh.....thats not what every lesbian dreams of....




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## mkr

I didn't say it was


----------



## Jayne1

labelwhore04 said:


> Caitlyn will never de transition. She's invested way too much into her new identity. Shes had her own show, shes won awards, etc. She will never be able to go back to Bruce without being shunned by the public. Imagine how outraged people would be. Even if she does feel regret, she'll never publicly express it IMO.



Yes and why go back when she has her implants and can wear her dresses and wigs. She has a team to dress her and put on her makeup, making her feel very special and fussed over. She still has her 'equipment'. I think she's happy.


----------



## Vienna

What I don't get is that before people go thru the transition, they go thru hours of therapy to make sure that the want for transition is sincere - to the therapist and individual. I work with teenagers who claim they want to transition and I already have two cases where the therapist has come to the conclusion that the two students are really "gender neutral" and are not ready or do not really want to fully transition.


----------



## mkr

Vienna said:


> What I don't get is that before people go thru the transition, they go thru hours of therapy to make sure that the want for transition is sincere - to the therapist and individual. I work with teenagers who claim they want to transition and I already have two cases where the therapist has come to the conclusion that the two students are really "gender neutral" and are not ready or do not really want to fully transition.


You're talking about real people.  He's a rich and famous Kardashian/Jenner.  They snap their fingers and open their wallets and the seas part.


----------



## tweegy

CeeJay said:


> Here's the article in the Daily Mail ..
> 
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner may 'detransition back to Bruce after suffering from sex change regret' claims longtime friend*
> 
> 
> 
> *Caitlyn Jenner may detransition back to Bruce according to multiple sources who spoke with Ian Halperin *
> *Halperin recently released the book, Kardashian Dynasty: The Controversial Rise of America&#8217;s Royal Family *
> *Halperin  claims one longtime friend of Jenner told him; 'I think there&#8217;s a  chance she&#8217;ll de-transition in the next couple years' *
> *He also claims that multiple sources told him it is because Jenner is still attracted to women *
> *Jenner revealed she was transitioning in an interview with Diane Sawyer last April*
> *She later appeared on the July cover of Vanity Fair wearing a white satin bustier with the words 'I Am Caitlyn' *
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ret-claims-longtime-friend.html#ixzz48RzptRTX
> 
> ​



Oh- Looks like someone showed Kris the article...


----------



## dangerouscurves

tweegy said:


> Oh- Looks like someone showed Kris the article...




[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## DC-Cutie

I bet his friends for TV are sitting back saying 'told ya so'


----------



## Hobbsy

His poor mother.


----------



## Cinamonn_girl

All Bruce/Caitlyn has ever wanted was only attention.

Sad.


----------



## bisousx

CobaltBlu said:


> uh.....thats not what every lesbian dreams of....



Lmfao


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

But he said he doesn't want to de-transition and the Daily Fail is hardly a credible source. I'd rather wait until someone with more clout says something regarding this.


----------



## starsandbucks

I was catching up on my beauty guru videos on YouTube last and one of the accounts that just reposts Kylie's snapchats started on autoplay. She was talking about one of her new lip kits either debuting or coming back in stock (can't remember) but Caitlyn but standing behind her hyping up HER upcoming MAC lipstick debut (so, yes, this video is probably a month old). It was pretty hilarious because Cait was just yelling over Kylie "MAC.COM! MAC.COM! MAC.COM!" And...and that's not the web site. MAC's website is maccosmetics.com. Caitlyn was sending her "fans" off to buy computers and iPads. Good Lord she NEVER bothers to research even the smallest, easiest details about the things she says!

Kylie was like, "Shut up, you're being annoying." LOL


----------



## ChanelMommy

Hobbsy said:


> His poor mother.



agree


----------



## Sasha2012

Her stepdaughter Kim Kardashian can't seem to go a week without flashing the flesh in revealing attire or lack of it.

Caitlyn Jenner appeared to be right on trend in a see-through black lace top that showed off the outlines of a flesh-toned bra while shopping at Los Angeles' Malibu Country Mart on Monday.

The 66-year-old had no qualms wearing such a clingy and all too sheer piece of clothing that she paired with a black cardigan and super-tight jeans.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-lace-hitting-shops-Malibu.html#ixzz4BVK2iMhI


----------



## chowlover2

I'm going to go bleach my eyeballs now...


----------



## berrydiva

That wig is tragic. That crop top is tragic. Those shoes are tragic. Those jeans are tragic. Just all such a complete tragedy.


----------



## mkr

She musta been in Kim's closet.


----------



## KCeboKing

It's all bad.  Just so very bad.


----------



## chowlover2

Not to mention the face and stomach w/o photoshop. She looks bad from a distance, cannot imagine how bad she looks up close.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner has spent her life sporting simple short, utilitarian hairstyles.
So when it comes to finding her go-to hairstyle, she's making up for lost time.

On Monday, the former Olympian showed off a new blonder hairdo as she headed out in Malibu to pick up her coffee.

Her honey-blonde highlights swished around her face and flattered her complexion during the morning outing.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...locks-heads-lightened-hair.html#ixzz4BWLjbgAb


----------



## raffifi

this is bad. everything is a mess from head to toe.


she has the money to pay someone to help her dress, but no. I think she just loves to get dressed in the dark.


And I really hope I don't look like this carrying a bag.


----------



## berrydiva

No wonder Caitlyn thinks the hardest part about being a woman is finding something to wear.


----------



## Stephie2800

Those shoes!


----------



## tweegy

I'll be the one to say it... 


Her sunglasses do not suite her face.


----------



## Jayne1

What happened to her Versace sunnies  she was boasting about. They weren't great, either. lol


----------



## knasarae

The first thing that came to mind is that Khloe must've dressed Caitlyn that day.


----------



## Jayne1

Those are all wigs, right?


----------



## guccimamma

jesus.


----------



## sdkitty

ridiculous....I'm sorry if this is wrong to say but IMO there's a big difference between a child or adolescent who feels like he/she is the wrong gender and gets the treatments to suppress the unwanted hormones - vs a 65-year-old man trying to look like a woman.  Even with all the expensive clothing, wigs, cosmetic procedures, he looks like a large man in drag.


----------



## chowlover2

sdkitty said:


> ridiculous....I'm sorry if this is wrong to say but IMO there's a big difference between a child or adolescent who feels like he/she is the wrong gender and gets the treatments to suppress the unwanted hormones - vs a 65-year-old man trying to look like a woman.  Even with all the expensive clothing, wigs, cosmetic procedures, he looks like a large man in drag.


 Agreed!


----------



## guccimamma

bruce, what the he!! are you doing?


----------



## vivelebag

guccimamma said:


> bruce, what the he!! are you doing?



You mean what the she!! 

[emoji23]


----------



## Oryx816

Jenner carries a purse like a man in drag taking out the trash.  

No matter how much assistance he receives in terms of appearance, the mannerisms are highly unnatural and masculine.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Yeah, she looks like this cross-dresser character in Ready to Wear movie.


----------



## chowlover2

You would have thought if you felt that you were a woman inside since you were 12, you might pull off the female affectations with more ease. I look at CJ, and all I see is a K copycat. When i saw that pic first thing I thought was CJ was copying Khloe' hair. If I had wanted to be a woman, and I am only 5 yrs younger than CJ, I would have been looking at the supermodels from the say 80-90's and look at their sense of style today. Women like Cindy Crawford, Christie Brinkley, etc. KWIM? These women are still around today and dress great. Honestly, CJ walks around like a dump truck in heels and slings a handbag like he's carrying a bag of rocks. If sizing is a problem, and I imagine it might be between height and size of feet, spring for custom with your millions CJ!


----------



## caitlin1214

In the book Party Monster, James St. James writes about Club Kid Michael Alig killing a drug dealer. In the subsequent investigation, police go undercover to investigate the Club Kid scene. I can't find the exact passage, but he said you could totally tell who was an undercover police officer because they were wearing what they thought Club Kids would wear, and they were just hairy bodies in heels holding lunchboxes. 

Caitlyn Jenner is like an undercover police officer attempting to pass herself off as a Club Kid.


----------



## V0N1B2

chowlover2 said:


> .... Honestly, CJ walks around like a dump truck in heels...


::snort::
You owe me a new keyboard for that doll!


----------



## chowlover2

V0N1B2 said:


> ::snort::
> You owe me a new keyboard for that doll!


----------



## labelwhore04

You would think that since feeling like a women your whole life, CJ would have more feminine mannerisms naturally..


----------



## dangerouscurves

labelwhore04 said:


> You would think that since feeling like a women your whole life, CJ would have more feminine mannerisms naturally..



Yep. All the transgenders that I know have the mannerisms of the gender they identify with.


----------



## bisousx

I wouldn't wish that kind of confusion on anyone. I feel bad for Caitlyn. Don't know.


----------



## Michele26

The BIG toes hanging out of the sandals gets me. [emoji849]


----------



## pukasonqo

she was a sour man, she is a sour woman now
i still think caitlyn is konfused, maybe undergoing therapy would help her


----------



## dangerouscurves

She should've gone through the required minimum of 2 years psychological therapy for the transgenders as part of her transitioning to find out if she was genuinely transgender. I doubt she is.


----------



## pursecrusader

^I wonder how his mom is coping with all of this.


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> she was a sour man, she is a sour woman now
> i still think caitlyn is konfused, maybe undergoing therapy would help her





dangerouscurves said:


> She should've gone through the required minimum of 2 years psychological therapy for the transgenders as part of her transitioning to find out if she was genuinely transgender. I doubt she is.


 Yes, plus the coming out should have been done quietly. No Vanity Fair, no Woman of the Year award. Let her live as a woman for several years before throwing any awards at her.  CJ tends to only attend events for the publicity she will receive.


----------



## Viva La Fashion

dangerouscurves said:


> She should've gone through the required minimum of 2 years psychological therapy for the transgenders as part of her transitioning to find out if she was genuinely transgender. I doubt she is.


me too! someone once commented how she was unhappy and maybe thought it was her answer to happiness
maybe after becoming caitlyn she would figure her life out, know who she is,etc..
i just think bruce was a sad old man who had personal issues 
before announcing to the world, he should have waited at least a minimum of 2/3
he was giddy and basically excited and saw it as a door that never was opened before
i mean wow i wouldn't be genuinely surprised if after a few years she would regret ever being "caitlyn"
i really dont care about the kardashian they seem selfish and fake but kendall was the one who really showed true feelings!
kylie cried and expressed many feelings over twitter but that girl was more concerned about her lips than caitlyn in my opinion


----------



## gillianna

I think he is just a big fame whore.  He was in the background next to PMK and her daughters.  He lived with their diva behaviors.  He now is one of them and still does Not look comfortable or fit in.  Perhaps some major therapy with a doctor who would not be taken in by their fame and wishes could of helped him on his journey.  He looks as miserable as ever in all the non pap pictures but if it is a photo op he plays the Kardashian part well-fake as can be.

Perhaps wishing for something and thinking it will make your life 100% better was not the reality he expected it to be.


----------



## shiny_things

It doesn't really matter how she looks, to her the most important thing will be how she feels.

You may feel she looks like a man in drag, but I'd bet my entire life savings that when she looks in the mirror she's far happier with what she sees than what she saw as Bruce.


----------



## guccimamma

for some reason what bothers me the most is the furry thing on his purse. 

65 year old women don't put furry things on their purses, most women half that age would think twice before doing that.

i think my middle school daughter would like it, but only for a week or so.


----------



## Viva La Fashion

gillianna said:


> I think he is just a big fame whore.  He was in the background next to PMK and her daughters.  He lived with their diva behaviors.  He now is one of them and still does Not look comfortable or fit in.  Perhaps some major therapy with a doctor who would not be taken in by their fame and wishes could of helped him on his journey.  He looks as miserable as ever in all the non pap pictures but if it is a photo op he plays the Kardashian part well-fake as can be.
> 
> Perhaps wishing for something and thinking it will make your life 100% better was not the reality he expected it to be.



for many years he was tormented by the kardashian and not to mention the devil himself PMK
she ripped off his personality and basically eliminated the chance for him to ever express his feelings/action in the house
so for him to go through that process and finally break free from them, and still act like a diva??
its pisses me off !!
im not saying thats what you said, its just furiate me to no end when acts like a victim in several situation
he was an old bitter man, now she just an even more resentful women
case closed!


----------



## Wildflower22

shiny_things said:


> It doesn't really matter how she looks, to her the most important thing will be how she feels.



While that may be true for other people, I don't think it's the case here. Go back and read some things she has said about being a woman. All superficial.


----------



## Oryx816

shiny_things said:


> It doesn't really matter how she looks, to her the most important thing will be how she feels.
> 
> You may feel she looks like a man in drag, but I'd bet my entire life savings that when she looks in the mirror she's far happier with what she sees than what she saw as Bruce.



I wouldn't bet a penny found on the street on anything pertaining to a Kardashian or a Jenner.  You are a brave one to bet your life savings! [emoji2]


----------



## pseze

I have no idea on what is going on with her. I don't follow her story or watch the shows. My info is second hand, but a lot of it has the ring to it that transition happened extremely fast. I would guess by way of informed consent and bypassing any Gender Therapists or Psychologists. So many take this route and so many are not happy doing so. There are a lot of people who make the assumption of being Transgender and never explore the possibility of there being some other road for them. Being Transsexual myself and across many trans forums, I have watched way too many transition with the wrong idea of what the reality is. Many transition with false expectations of life changing for the better and all their problems just vanish into thin air. Many others transition into a strange fetishist idea of what a woman is, expecting to become sexy vixens and dressing like stereotyped prostitutes seen in bad movies.

  It would not surprise me to see her step back and reevaluate her transition and perhaps see another option and take things slower. Just as much I would also not be surprised if they struggled onward as an unhappy person.

http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT SOC, V7.pdf          <---  this link is The Standards of Care for Trans and Gender Non-Conforming if anyone had an interest.


----------



## dangerouscurves

pseze said:


> I have no idea on what is going on with her. I don't follow her story or watch the shows. My info is second hand, but a lot of it has the ring to it that transition happened extremely fast. I would guess by way of informed consent and bypassing any Gender Therapists or Psychologists. So many take this route and so many are not happy doing so. There are a lot of people who make the assumption of being Transgender and never explore the possibility of there being some other road for them. Being Transsexual myself and across many trans forums, I have watched way too many transition with the wrong idea of what the reality is. Many transition with false expectations of life changing for the better and all their problems just vanish into thin air. Many others transition into a strange fetishist idea of what a woman is, expecting to become sexy vixens and dressing like stereotyped prostitutes seen in bad movies.
> 
> It would not surprise me to see her step back and reevaluate her transition and perhaps see another option and take things slower. Just as much I would also not be surprised if they struggled onward as an unhappy person.
> 
> http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT SOC, V7.pdf          <---  this link is The Standards of Care for Trans and Gender Non-Conforming if anyone had an interest.



Girl! Good luck with your transition. Thank you for the link. I hope it opens many eyes here. (Hugs).


----------



## Birdonce

pseze said:


> I have no idea on what is going on with her. I don't follow her story or watch the shows. My info is second hand, but a lot of it has the ring to it that transition happened extremely fast. I would guess by way of informed consent and bypassing any Gender Therapists or Psychologists. So many take this route and so many are not happy doing so. There are a lot of people who make the assumption of being Transgender and never explore the possibility of there being some other road for them. Being Transsexual myself and across many trans forums, I have watched way too many transition with the wrong idea of what the reality is. Many transition with false expectations of life changing for the better and all their problems just vanish into thin air. Many others transition into a strange fetishist idea of what a woman is, expecting to become sexy vixens and dressing like stereotyped prostitutes seen in bad movies.
> 
> It would not surprise me to see her step back and reevaluate her transition and perhaps see another option and take things slower. Just as much I would also not be surprised if they struggled onward as an unhappy person.
> 
> http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT SOC, V7.pdf          <---  this link is The Standards of Care for Trans and Gender Non-Conforming if anyone had an interest.



Best of luck to you! I watched the first season and I agree she may have skipped some important counseling regarding her transition (or was playing dumb for the cameras) and I hope it doesn't make the experience go badly for her. Regardless, she has "humanized" transgendered people for a lot of the population that was ignorant or biased because they had never met anyone like her. She may still be a little selfish and out of touch, but she can be a role model while being far from perfect.


----------



## tweegy

pseze said:


> I have no idea on what is going on with her. I don't follow her story or watch the shows. My info is second hand, but a lot of it has the ring to it that transition happened extremely fast. I would guess by way of informed consent and bypassing any Gender Therapists or Psychologists. So many take this route and so many are not happy doing so. There are a lot of people who make the assumption of being Transgender and never explore the possibility of there being some other road for them. Being Transsexual myself and across many trans forums, I have watched way too many transition with the wrong idea of what the reality is. Many transition with false expectations of life changing for the better and all their problems just vanish into thin air. Many others transition into a strange fetishist idea of what a woman is, expecting to become sexy vixens and dressing like stereotyped prostitutes seen in bad movies.
> 
> It would not surprise me to see her step back and reevaluate her transition and perhaps see another option and take things slower. Just as much I would also not be surprised if they struggled onward as an unhappy person.
> 
> http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT SOC, V7.pdf          <---  this link is The Standards of Care for Trans and Gender Non-Conforming if anyone had an interest.



Firstly, I hope all goes well for you. 

I don't think you should endure the pain of watching her show. I tried to watch a couple epis and it was tiring the amount of times my eyes rolled. 

Just stretch your eyeball muscles before hand.

There was always some who side eyes her transition from day uno.


----------



## chowlover2

My Name is Jazz is a much better show about transgenders on TLC.


----------



## pseze

Thanks Dangerouscurves, Birdonce and Tweegy. My own transition has been amazing. I just wanted to be clear, I have no ill will toward Caitlyn. Though I am glad that she was that one trans individual in the mega public spot light that allowed for the public to start talking or be made aware of trans people. I am sad at the same time that it feels too showy, carnival, circus like and I fear that image is a negative for so many.


----------



## dangerouscurves

pseze said:


> Thanks Dangerouscurves, Birdonce and Tweegy. My own transition has been amazing. I just wanted to be clear, I have no ill will toward Caitlyn. Though I am glad that she was that one trans individual in the mega public spot light that allowed for the public to start talking or be made aware of trans people. I am sad at the same time that it feels too showy, carnival, circus like and I fear that image is a negative for so many.



I haven't actually watched her show but from what the girls say here, it's obvious that she's kinda confused. I have several transgender friends and I learn a lot from them. One of them has a German passport and from day 1 of her transition, it's been paid by the state but she had to go through the psychological therapy even before getting the hormones prescription.


----------



## redney

Wow, it's so dead around here that no one has posted the Sports Illustrated cover yet?


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

http://olympics.si.com/olympics/2016/06/28/caitlyn-jenner-1976-olympics-gold-medal

Good interview from Sports Illustrated about the 40th anniversary of Caitlyn winning.


----------



## mkr

Oh goody.


----------



## tweegy

That Sports Illustrated video is the same ole same ole from her.


----------



## queen

tweegy said:


> That Sports Illustrated video is the same ole same ole from her.


Jenner needs to learn to live in reality.  There is no longer a Bruce.  That is of Jenner's own making.  When you legally change yourself to another person why would you pose with the former's medal.  If you hated that person why go back?  People need to learn to live with reality.  One way or the other you can not have it both ways.  Regardless of what some people think there are some things that just are and wishing and wanting will not change that.


----------



## mama13drama99

It's amazing that people are always claiming that Jenner "slays" or "comes thru"...when that's the furthest thing from the truth!  For once if they called it like it is, dear in headlights or man in drag, I'd be happy.  But alas that's not PC so it won't happen.  And they'll continue to provide Jenner with a false sense of reality.


----------



## mama13drama99




----------



## chowlover2

mama13drama99 said:


> View attachment 3405663
> 
> 
> It's amazing that people are always claiming that Jenner "slays" or "comes thru"...when that's the furthest thing from the truth!  For once if they called it like it is, dear in headlights or man in drag, I'd be happy.  But alas that's not PC so it won't happen.  And they'll continue to provide Jenner with a false sense of reality.


So true!


----------



## rockhollow

mama13drama99 said:


> View attachment 3405665


my goodness, those are such large man paws holding the baby.


----------



## mama13drama99

rockhollow said:


> my goodness, those are such large man paws holding the baby.



Extremely large.  Actually ginormous!


----------



## Sasha2012

There may be a reported riff in their family.

But Kim definitely added a bit of Kardashian flare to Caitlyn Jenner's look.

The 66-year-old Olympic gold medallist got styled out by her 35-year-old stepdaughter for the 2016 ESPY Awards in Los Angeles on Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...PY-Awards-stepdaughter-Kim.html#ixzz4EMmvBV3I


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think every woman should dress for her shape and her best assets - and Caitlyn just isn't doing it. This look is too much of everything. She'd look much more sophisticated with a slightly shorter hairstyle too.

Her face is venturing into early Jocelyn Wildenstein territory. Less is more. Always.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Sasha2012 said:


> There may be a reported riff in their family.
> 
> But Kim definitely added a bit of Kardashian flare to Caitlyn Jenner's look.
> 
> The 66-year-old Olympic gold medallist got styled out by her 35-year-old stepdaughter for the 2016 ESPY Awards in Los Angeles on Wednesday.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...PY-Awards-stepdaughter-Kim.html#ixzz4EMmvBV3I



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]


----------



## mkr

Why do people with enough money to get their face all smoothed out not look at their neck?


----------



## tweegy

I had the same expression as the girl in the blue top behind her...


----------



## chowlover2

mkr said:


> Why do people with enough money to get their face all smoothed out not look at their neck?


Or hands...


----------



## RueMonge

This is unfortunate. She would look so much better if she were tastefully covered like Jane Fonda usually is.


----------



## Grace123

dangerouscurves said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]



Really? This is just an embarrassment.


----------



## Jayne1

RueMonge said:


> This is unfortunate. She would look so much better if she were tastefully covered like Jane Fonda usually is.


Agree!


----------



## kemilia

rockhollow said:


> my goodness, those are such large man paws holding the baby.


Holy moley!! I just went back and looked, wow.


----------



## DesigningStyle

What is going on with the shoulder area?  Is that a big scar?


----------



## V0N1B2

DesigningStyle said:


> What is going on with the shoulder area?  Is that a big scar?


Nah, it the netting.  It's not a true strapless dress, there is flesh-coloured netting like you would see on a figure skating dress (for example).  You can see the neckline at the top.

BTW: Caitlyn's mouth is starting to (strongly) resemble Taylor Armstrong's from RHOBH.


----------



## chowlover2

She would look better in a burka...


----------



## Jayne1

V0N1B2 said:


> BTW: Caitlyn's mouth is starting to (strongly) resemble Taylor Armstrong's from RHOBH.


I thought it was strongly resembling Kylie's. lol


----------



## Sasha2012

One day after lobbying on behalf of the transgender community at an event outside the ********** National Convention in Ohio, it was back to the usual chores for Caitlyn Jenner.

The reality star, 66, was spotted grabbing coffee in Malibu before picking up some groceries at a market and then heading to a meeting in Beverly Hills.

She wore a stripy mini dress with voluminous sleeves that showed off her long legs and a white bodysuit revealed by the slashed-to-the-waist neckline.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...hts-event-outside-RNC-Ohio.html#ixzz4F7cahWJG


----------



## tweegy

Grabbing coffee is a chore?


----------



## Irishgal

Look at the photoshop job on the knees where she's sitting wearing the white skirt.


----------



## Rouge H

Smooth that sheit out..


----------



## Jayne1

Irishgal said:


> Look at the photoshop job on the knees where she's sitting wearing the white skirt.


Oh my goodness -- you're right!


----------



## tweegy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...tarry-cast-high-achievers-H-M-s-campaign.html

She has a very..um......'interesting' perception on things..


----------



## Irishgal

Jayne1 said:


> Oh my goodness -- you're right!



Look at the arms too. Smoothed them out from wrist to shoulder and you can see it.


----------



## chowlover2

tweegy said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...tarry-cast-high-achievers-H-M-s-campaign.html
> 
> She has a very..um......'interesting' perception on things..


That's for sure...


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn out in Malibu today.










via Daily Mail


----------



## mama13drama99

I bet photographers want to vomit while looking through their lenses.  I sure want to looking at the photos.  Simply hideous!  There is NOTHING redeeming. Not one thing.


----------



## chowlover2

mama13drama99 said:


> I bet photographers want to vomit while looking through their lenses.  I sure want to looking at the photos.  Simply hideous!  There is NOTHING redeeming. Not one thing.


Agreed!


----------



## Luvbolide

OMG - she looks like a guy who spent too much on surgery and can't afford womens' clothes, so just wore an old shirt out of the (men's) closet.

Someone needs to set fire to that closet and start again - and be sure the shoes and purses are in the closet before igniting...


----------



## KCeboKing

mama13drama99 said:


> I bet photographers want to vomit while looking through their lenses.  I sure want to looking at the photos.  Simply hideous!  There is NOTHING redeeming. Not one thing.



Thank you!!!!! Ish ish ish


----------



## dangerouscurves

Luvbolide said:


> OMG - she looks like a guy who spent too much on surgery and can't afford womens' clothes, so just wore an old shirt out of the (men's) closet.
> 
> Someone needs to set fire to that closet and start again - and be sure the shoes and purses are in the closet before igniting...



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## rockhollow

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn out in Malibu today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> via Daily Mail


I'm sort of ok with parts of this outfit. 
It's so much better than some of the skimpy ones she wears (that frightening white shoulder-less one).
Caitlyn more covered up is a 'good thing'.
She's always going to ginormous, no way round that.
The skirt and sandals look good. I'm trying to think of a better shirt for her, but with her size and shape, it's hard.
Shorter sleeves might just draw more attention to her giant man paws, and no nipples please.

But like all the Kardashian clan, Kaitlyn could afford to have team of stylists dress her to her best advantage, but that doesn't happen.
They need more than just paid 'yes' people - someone who will and can say - please don't go out in public in that outfit!


----------



## mama13drama99

Nothing with distract my eye from his man paws.  Not even gloves.  That skirt and sandals are just ugly.


----------



## chowlover2

All I can say is thank heavens her knees are covered. The knobby knees, skinny calves and big feet are what I see first, then the man hands. 

I guess CJ has no more female friends since E! cancelled her show. No more staged photo ops either. Must be killing her.


----------



## mama13drama99

chowlover2 said:


> All I can say is thank heavens her knees are covered. The knobby knees, skinny calves and big feet are what I see first, then the man hands.
> 
> I guess CJ has no more female friends since E! cancelled her show. No more staged photo ops either. Must be killing her.



I guess that is a good way to look at it.  Either ugly clothes or his ugly body parts.  I'll have to agree with you and accept the skirt as a saving grace. 

Is your avatar Tyrion?  I can't see that well on my phone.  I just watched all six season of GoT in two weeks.


----------



## chowlover2

mama13drama99 said:


> I guess that is a good way to look at it.  Either ugly clothes or his ugly body parts.  I'll have to agree with you and accept the skirt as a saving grace.
> 
> Is your avatar Tyrion?  I can't see that well on my phone.  I just watched all six season of GoT in two weeks.


Yes, I love Tyrion, my fav on GoT. I am re-watching with my BFF right now to avoid GoT withdrawal symptoms. Going to be a long haul til season 7!


----------



## Sasha2012

This was not the first time this reality star found herself not on the list to mark a milestone with her loved ones, but no doubt that did not make it any easier.

As her family members were excitedly preparing for Kylie Jenner's 19th birthday, Caitlyn Jenner was alone doing her weekly grocery shop.

The 66-year-old looked a little down in the dumps as she stopped by a supermarket in Malibu, California, on Sunday.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ghter-s-family-celebration.html#ixzz4GA0Wc1KJ


----------



## CeeJay

chowlover2 said:


> All I can say is thank heavens her knees are covered. The knobby knees, skinny calves and big feet are what I see first, then the man hands.
> 
> I guess CJ has no more female friends *since E! cancelled her show*. No more staged photo ops either. Must be killing her.



Please tell me that E! did, in fact, cancel her show (_not that I watched more than about 5 minutes only 1 time .. and that was ENOUGH for me_!)


----------



## gillianna

Where are all his guy friend from before?  One would think his true friend would still be there unless the Kardashain fame whoring ways embrass them from being seen in public with him.


----------



## rockhollow

wasn't that alway a comment on KUWTK,  that Bruce had no friends - all his friends were Kris' s friends.
And if her show was cancelled, all those TG ladies probably don't want anything to do with Katlyn.
I watched a couple of episodes of her show, and Bruce/Katlyn always seems so aggressive, the other ladies always looked nervous, almost afraid of her.


----------



## Grace123

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...wind-catches-unawares-morning-coffee-run.html
*Caitlyn Jenner has a bad hair day as the wind catches her unawares on morning coffee run*
By DAILYMAIL.COM REPORTER

PUBLISHED: 16:02 EST, 8 August 2016 | UPDATED: 20:01 EST, 8 August 2016 With her manicured nails and carefully co-ordinated outfits, it's clear Caitlyn Jenner puts plenty of thought into her appearance.

But no amount of preparation can prevent the unexpected, with the wind taking hold of her blow-dried hair on Tuesday.

Whipping Caitlyn's extensions away from her face, the sudden gust exposed her thinning roots as she climbed into her purple Ferrari in Malibu.








+7
Hair we go: Caitlyn Jenner has a bad hair day as the wind catches her unawares on morning coffee run on Monday







+7




'Nothing comes close!' Caitlyn insists she was more famous than the Kardashians after winning Olympic gold

While it might have been a bit of a bad hair day for Caitlyn, the 66-year-old was otherwise perfectly co-ordinated.

Dressed in blue jeans and a long-sleeved pink top, Caitlyn kept her eyes covered with a pair of shades as she made her daily Starbucks run near her Malibu home. 


She has lived in the quiet seaside town of Malibu since her split from ex-wife Kris Jenner, filling her days with filming her reality show I Am Cait.

But while the show was inititally a hit, it is reportedly set to be cancelled.







+7










+7

Out and about: Dressed in blue jeans and a long-sleeved pink top, Caitlyn kept her eyes covered with a pair of shades as she made her daily Starbucks run near her Malibu home












Caitlyn Jenner just stepped out to get her morning coffee in Malibu as the reality TV star and Olympian worked a pink long sleeve top and faded denim jeans. She styled her look with a pair of flat strappy sandals and a Max Mara leather tote.

Shop the Max Mara Whitney bag in black via the link on the right. Sadly, the tan version that Caitlyn has isn't available for purchase online at the moment. 

We also have a chic roundup in the edit below that are just as sleek as Caitlyn's but won't break the bank.


----------



## tweegy

[emoji849] she's such a modest creature...


----------



## mkr

Aren't all her hair days bad?


----------



## Sasha2012

She's part of one of the world's foremost fashion families.

And Caitlyn Jenner definitely made a statement on Thursday when she ventured out in a very bright turquoise top for a coffee run in Malibu.

The 66-year-old former Olympian paired her eye-catching shirt with some fitted jeans with the cuffs rolled up, which showcased her lithe figure.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-coffee-run-purple-Porsche.html#ixzz4H6H4Uj7d


----------



## arnott

DesigningStyle said:


> What is going on with the shoulder area?  Is that a big scar?



She looks like Khloe here!


----------



## arnott

Sasha2012 said:


> She's part of one of the world's foremost fashion families.
> 
> And Caitlyn Jenner definitely made a statement on Thursday when she ventured out in a very bright turquoise top for a coffee run in Malibu.
> 
> The 66-year-old former Olympian paired her eye-catching shirt with some fitted jeans with the cuffs rolled up, which showcased her lithe figure.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-coffee-run-purple-Porsche.html#ixzz4H6H4Uj7d



Love the purple Porsche!


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

So it actually is her hair and not a weave?


----------



## White Orchid

arnott said:


> She looks like Khloe here!


Gross.


----------



## Oryx816

"She's part of one of the world's foremost fashion families".....wtf?

Is her last name Arnault or Hermes?


----------



## V0N1B2

Oryx816 said:


> "She's part of one of the world's foremost fashion families".....wtf?
> 
> Is her last name Arnault or Hermes?


 Right?
And here I was, trying to understand the "lithe figure" comment.


----------



## mkr

Well she dresses better than some of the K's so there's that.  What are you supposed to wear on a coffee run?  Or the grocery store?  I think Kourtney is the only one who actually does these mundane tasks and dresses the part.


----------



## Jayne1

Babydoll Chanel said:


> So it actually is her hair and not a weave?


Someone tell us! I can't figure out what she did.


----------



## mkr




----------



## Babydoll Chanel

mkr said:


>



x 390239


----------



## berrydiva

Loving that wrap on the Porsche. I can't bother commenting on Caitlyn anymore. Such a disaster of a person; man or woman, Caitlyn still seem at odds with herself.


----------



## Irishgal

Well I'm disturbed. I think that might be a Lululemon shirt and if it is I have the same shirt as she does. I also have a Porsche but thank god it's not purple. But still, I'm horrified.


----------



## guccimamma

he waited his entire life (she) for this.


----------



## Luvbolide

V0N1B2 said:


> Right?
> And here I was, trying to understand the "lithe figure" comment.




LOL - I was thinking the same thing as I choked on the phrase "one of the world's foremost fashion families".  Does anyone associate a K or a J with actual fashion - making a spectacle of oneself doesn't really count...


----------



## cdtracing

Maybe she should just invest in hair plugs.


----------



## limom

cdtracing said:


> Maybe she should just invest in hair plugs.


Her hair are so awful. At this point, she needs to shave it and wear a good front laced wig.
Baby her new growth and take it from there.


----------



## dangerouscurves

Why doesn't she just get some hair transplant? I'm she she can afford it.


----------



## guccimamma

i feel like bruce becoming caitlin is like leaving a longtime spouse ....i keep thinking she is going back to bruce eventually.


----------



## AEGIS

mkr said:


> Aren't all her hair days bad?


LMAO!


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner's docu-series has officially been cancelled after two seasons.

The 66-year-old confirmed weeks of rumours that I Am Cait is coming to an end on her Twitter page on Tuesday.

'After 2 amazing seasons of @IAmCait, it's time for the next adventure,' Caitlyn shared. 'Thank you E! & thank you to the best girlfriends I could ask for!'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Cait-cancelled-two-seasons.html#ixzz4HX94Upmm


----------



## Deco

I didn't realize there were 2 seasons.


----------



## ChanelMommy

Hold up, the last pic. That's Cait sans makeup??


----------



## rockhollow

ChanelMommy said:


> Hold up, the last pic. That's Cait sans makeup??



is it?  Yikes!

Noticed Jennifer never really thanked Cait in her long list of thanks.
I don't think Cait made friends on the show.


----------



## Jayne1

rockhollow said:


> is it?  Yikes!
> 
> Noticed Jennifer never really thanked Cait in her long list of thanks.
> I don't think Cait made friends on the show.


Now that you mention it -- she left Cait off the list!  I didn't notice at first.


----------



## redney

Jayne1 said:


> Now that you mention it -- she left Cait off the list!  I didn't notice at first.


Complete omission. It's what someone doesn't say that is the most telling...


----------



## dangerouscurves

rockhollow said:


> is it?  Yikes!
> 
> Noticed Jennifer never really thanked Cait in her long list of thanks.
> I don't think Cait made friends on the show.



That's what I thought to. No mention of Cait.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner has stepped out for the first time since her reality TV show has been axed.

The 66-year-old looked downcast as she arrived at her ex wife Kris Jenner's house in her purple Porche on Thursday.

She is no longer the star of her own show, having confirmed earlier this week that I Am Cait, which portrayed her life after her gender transition, will not return for a third season.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-axe-falls-reality-TV-show.html#ixzz4HkHv7IBb


----------



## VickyB

I heard that she is rejoining KUWTK. Wonder if that is true?


----------



## cdtracing

I could say I cared, but I don't.


----------



## pukasonqo

she is always looking miserable


----------



## limom

She has her purse down on the ground, in a parking lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mkr

limom said:


> She has her purse down on the ground, in a parking lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


She might look like a lady, but still thinks like a guy.  He's just a cross dresser.


----------



## BadAzzBish

mkr said:


> She might look like a lady, but still thinks like a guy.  He's just a cross dresser.


^This! Only Cait and God knows the truth but I've always gotten a crossdresser vibe. It's like that 'To Wong Foo' quote - "A crossdresser is a straight man that likes to dress in womens clothes for kicks! A transgender is a person who feels trapped in the wrong sex/body. A drag queen is a gay man that has way too much style for one gender (lol) [emoji3] [emoji6]


----------



## mkr

And by the looks of things, he's tired of being a woman.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caityln Jenner and best friend Candis Cayne stepped out for an evening to honour the Orlando victims.

The I Am Cait stars showed their support of those affected by the June mass shooting by attending the onePULSE: A Benefit For Orlando.

The event, which took place at NeueHouse Hollywood on Friday, was attended by a slew of celebrity talent.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ndis-Cayne-Orlando-benefit.html#ixzz4Hqox1YCO


----------



## Brklynjuice87

If he is miserable I say good. He is a sh**ty father and deserves all the karma that comes his way. I hope he rots


----------



## Suzie

I know she is Caitlin, but is she still a he? Sorry, I just can't read through so many pages.


----------



## mkr

Suzie said:


> I know she is Caitlin, but is she still a he? Sorry, I just can't read through so many pages.


He still has his man parts.


----------



## Suzie

mkr said:


> He still has his man parts.


Thanks. Unfortunately for her, she looks like a man wearing a wig.


----------



## cdtracing

Caitlyn always looks miserable & no amount of PS or hormones is going to make him look feminine.  She/he always looks like a cross dresser.  Seeing as how he still has his man parts, does seem to me that he's fully committed to the gender change.  And, yes, I agree that he looks like a man wearing a wig.


----------



## AEGIS

Sasha2012 said:


> Caityln Jenner and best friend Candis Cayne stepped out for an evening to honour the Orlando victims.
> 
> The I Am Cait stars showed their support of those affected by the June mass shooting by attending the onePULSE: A Benefit For Orlando.
> 
> The event, which took place at NeueHouse Hollywood on Friday, was attended by a slew of celebrity talent.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ndis-Cayne-Orlando-benefit.html#ixzz4Hqox1YCO




Never realized Kylie has her dad's eyes


----------



## Oryx816

AEGIS said:


> Never realized Kylie has her dad's eyes



Don't they have the same plastic surgeon?


----------



## White Orchid

mkr said:


> He still has his man parts.


Every single thing about him is manly.  I see nothing feminine in him at all.  And then putting your hand bag onto the ground like that!!!  If you say you've been a woman since your marriage to Linda Thompson, you'd instinctively know not to put a bag onto the ground.

Anyways, I cannot stand him and his arthritic knees on parade.  You're almost 70 years of age.  Forget wearing a freakin' mini you morally-bankrupt, deadbeat Dad, fool.


----------



## sdkitty

cdtracing said:


> Caitlyn always looks miserable & no amount of PS or hormones is going to make him look feminine.  She/he always looks like a cross dresser.  Seeing as how he still has his man parts, does seem to me that he's fully committed to the gender change.  And, yes, I agree that he looks like a man wearing a wig.


agree......sorry if this is judgmental but I think maybe it would have been better if he just kept playing dress-up at home....all this prancing around in women's clothing....IDK.  How does one differentiate between someone who is really a women inside and someone who just likes wearing women's clothing?  I've said it before - If you get to be 65 as a man, it's a bit late to change into a woman IMO.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I think his transgender journey is a seperate issue. But damn....she needs to dress better.


----------



## RueMonge

I always though Bruce's face was quite feminine, as an Olympian for example, even before his early plastic surgery. 
Caitlyn's face is unfortunate...with too much surgery and alteration.


----------



## cdtracing

sdkitty said:


> agree......sorry if this is judgmental but I think maybe it would have been better if he just kept playing dress-up at home....all this prancing around in women's clothing....IDK.  How does one differentiate between someone who is really a women inside and someone who just likes wearing women's clothing?  I've said it before - If you get to be 65 as a man, it's a bit late to change into a woman IMO.



First let me correct my post...I meant he does not seem to be committed to the gender change.  Sometimes my brain is faster than my fingers. LOL
And honestly, Caitlyn will never fully be a woman unless doctors find a way to change his Y chromosome to an X.  That's just a medical fact. 

I think Caitlyn is trying too hard to be relevant in today's society & failing at it miserably.  Bruce was just there taking up space on KUWTK & now Caitlyn's show is cancelled.  Caitlyn always came across as entitled & dismissive, not humble, appreciative, or even kind to those around her.  For someone who waited this long to make the change to become "who" they say is who they really are, this change does not seem to have made him/her happier in their own skin nor happier with their life.  I think Bruce/Caitlyn's issues go far deeper than just gender.  I guess since the transformation has not been completed 100%, it will be easier for Caitlyn to transgender back to Bruce if that's what he/she wants to do.   I just see Bruce/Caitlyn as a miserably sad person who is unhappy with everything in their life.  The children have apparently moved on with their lives & don't really seem to care either.


----------



## Jayne1

RueMonge said:


> I always though Bruce's face was quite feminine, as an Olympian for example, even before his early plastic surgery.
> Caitlyn's face is unfortunate...with too much surgery and alteration.


That's so interesting… I too always thought the Montreal era face was quite beautiful and feminine… and now? Not at all.


----------



## RueMonge

Jayne1 said:


> That's so interesting… I too always thought the Montreal era face was quite beautiful and feminine… and now? Not at all.



Funny, isn't it.


----------



## Vienna

Is that a fact he wants to transition back?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Speculation.


----------



## cdtracing

Vienna said:


> Is that a fact he wants to transition back?



No, it's just speculation because he has not completed the transition to female by having gender reassessment surgery & that he seems so unhappy.  I will say that there are some transgenders who don't completely have the reassessment surgery & they're satisfied & happy with their lives.  With Bruce/Caitlyn, it seems he thought that once he transitioned, all his issues would be resolved & life would be all sunshine & rose petals.  That didn't happen.  Caitlyn appears to be even more unhappy than Bruce was.


----------



## mkr

He can now dress up like a woman in public.  I think the new wore off and he's tired of the work involved in really looking like a woman.


----------



## chowlover2

mkr said:


> He can now dress up like a woman in public.  I think the new wore off and he's tired of the work involved in really looking like a woman.


Yes, and let's face it, unless photoshopped, CJ always looks like a man in drag.


----------



## sdkitty

chowlover2 said:


> Yes, and let's face it, unless photoshopped, CJ always looks like a man in drag.


the face, when made up and photographed professionally can look pretty but the gait is all man


----------



## Irishgal

sdkitty said:


> the face, when made up and photographed professionally can look pretty but the gait is all man



Lol yep you can't hide a natural bear like lumbering gait.


----------



## sdkitty

Irishgal said:


> Lol yep you can't hide a natural bear like lumbering gait.


funny, he always felt like a woman but he had the male mannerisms and says he had an enjoyable sex life with his wives......I don't pretend to understand the whole transgender thing but it all seems odd to me in his/her case


----------



## mkr

I remember reading that he's not in to men.  So I don't see him finishing the transition.  Just my opinion.


----------



## cdtracing

mkr said:


> I remember reading that he's not in to men.  So I don't see him finishing the transition.  Just my opinion.


I remember this as well.  I thought if was so strange that he would go to all the trouble to transgender into a female so he could be a lesbian.


----------



## redney

cdtracing said:


> I remember this as well.  I thought if was so strange that he would go to all the trouble to transgender into a female so he could be a lesbian.


Transitioning to be the gender you feel inside has nothing to do with your sexual orientation - meaning the gender to which you feel physical attraction.


----------



## mkr

Maybe he didn't really feel he was a woman so much but once he lived with all those K women and their hair and make-up and fashion shoots etc. he felt the urge to be a woman more.  I really feel he just likes to play dress up.  And he's rich and bored and BAM I'ma do this cuz I can.  Just my opinion.


----------



## redney

mkr said:


> Maybe he didn't really feel he was a woman so much but once he lived with all those K women and their hair and make-up and fashion shoots etc. he felt the urge to be a woman more.  I really feel he just likes to play dress up.  And he's rich and bored and BAM I'ma do this cuz I can.  Just my opinion.


He was taking hormones to grow breasts and secretly wearing women's clothing in the 70s and 80s - WAY before he was sucked into the Kardarshian vortex.


----------



## mkr

redney said:


> He was taking hormones to grow breasts and secretly wearing women's clothing in the 70s and 80s - WAY before he was sucked into the Kardarshian vortex.


He might of taken estrogen for athletic performance though.  It does have a benefit that way.  Maybe I'm wrong, I just get a vibe from him that he just wants to look like a woman but doesn't want to really BE one.


----------



## redney

mkr said:


> He might of taken estrogen for athletic performance though.  It does have a benefit that way.  Maybe I'm wrong, I just get a vibe from him that he just wants to look like a woman but doesn't want to really BE one.


It's well documented by his first and second ex-wives, both of whom knew of his gender identity struggles at the times they were with him, and by Caitlyn herself that Bruce (at the time) struggled with his gender identity and identified with being a woman and took female hormones to begin the transition process, not for athletic performance. Here are links with details if you're interested:
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/bruce-jenners-journey-years/story?id=30571195
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/enterta...enner-says-he-began-transitioning-in-the-80s/
and a poignant piece by Linda Thompson, Bruce's 2nd wife: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-thompson/bruce-jenner-linda-thompson_b_7080918.html


----------



## FreeSpirit71

mkr said:


> I remember reading that he's not in to men.  So I don't see him finishing the transition.  Just my opinion.



This was discussed when she first revealed she was transgender, but not all people who choose this path go on to have surgery, particularly at Caitlyn's age. It's a very imperfect surgery and there can be numerous complications.  I think there are grey areas of "finishing".  If someone, in their mind is a woman born in the wrong body, and starts dressing and taking hormones to be the way they feel they should be - in their mind that may be transition enough.

The risks of the hormone therapy alone can be quite substantial, especially to the cardiovascular. But there is also a decrease in libido, thinning hair (which we've seen on Caitlyn). It can cause bone changes which can lead to hip discomfort. I think if you're willing to undergo all that you might consider it transition enough.


----------



## mkr

FreeSpirit71 said:


> This was discussed when she first revealed she was transgender, but not all people who choose this path go on to have surgery, particularly at Caitlyn's age. It's a very imperfect surgery and there can be numerous complications.  I think there are grey areas of "finishing".  If someone, in their mind is a woman born in the wrong body, and starts dressing and taking hormones to be the way they feel they should be - in their mind that may be transition enough.
> 
> The risks of the hormone therapy alone can be quite substantial, especially to the cardiovascular. But there is also a decrease in libido, thinning hair (which we've seen on Caitlyn). It can cause bone changes which can lead to hip discomfort. I think if you're willing to undergo all that you might consider it transition enough.


Good point.


----------



## limom

At this point, why not just be?
She looks miserable and I can't imagine whom her partner would be.
Her poor children. 
If you guys get a chance to watch the show transparent, Caitlyn is just like the main character: an entitled white male.


----------



## berrydiva

limom said:


> At this point, why not just be?
> She looks miserable and I can't imagine whom her partner would be.
> Her poor children.
> If you guys get a chance to watch the show transparent, Caitlyn is just like the main character: an entitled white male.


Transparent is such a great show. Plus I have yet to find something that Jeffrey Tambor does that I don't like. I go back and forth between Hank Kingsly and Michael Bluth Sr being my favs.


----------



## guccimamma

it is very interesting how this thread has evolved.  

so much unwavering support for her in the beginning,  seems like the reality of bruce/caitlin isn't living up to expectations.

i still think he should have just gone with the sporty spice/PE teacher look, but i may get flamed for that again. 

i just don't see how this makes her happier, she is living alone on a hill overlooking malibu....i doubt she has a decent relationship with her kids.  i just don't see how dressing up and prancing around for the paps makes her happy at this age.


----------



## cdtracing

limom said:


> *At this point, why not just be?
> She looks miserable and I can't imagine whom her partner would be.
> Her poor children. *
> If you guys get a chance to watch the show transparent, Caitlyn is just like the main character: an entitled white male.





guccimamma said:


> it is very interesting how this thread has evolved.
> 
> so much unwavering support for her in the beginning,  seems like the reality of bruce/caitlin isn't living up to expectations.
> 
> i still think he should have just gone with the sporty spice/PE teacher look, but i may get flamed for that again.
> 
> *i just don't see how this makes her happier, she is living alone on a hill overlooking malibu....i doubt she has a decent relationship with her kids.  i just don't see how dressing up and prancing around for the paps makes her happy at this age*.



I agree.  Caitlyn looks more miserable than Bruce & so alone.  The kids have all seemed to move on & don't appear to spend time with her.  For all appearances, the highlight of her day is the daily trip to Starbucks for coffee & photo ops.  It's really sad because that's not living, it's just existing.


----------



## rockhollow

cdtracing said:


> I agree.  Caitlyn looks more miserable than Bruce & so alone.  The kids have all seemed to move on & don't appear to spend time with her.  For all appearances, the highlight of her day is the daily trip to Starbucks for coffee & photo ops.  It's really sad because that's not living, it's just existing.




Not much of a life at all is it?

it's sure seems a no-win situation for Caitlyn. Bruce must have for so long wanted to change to Caitlyn to be happy, and now changed, does she now long for Bruce  - unhappy, either way.


----------



## DC-Cutie

anybody think Caitlyn will return to being Bruce?


----------



## redney

His most recent ex-wife and her daughters love to do the pap walk so perhaps Cait thought it was all that and a bag of chips. Maybe she does have a smidgen of substance after all.


----------



## chowlover2

DC-Cutie said:


> anybody think Caitlyn will return to being Bruce?


It wouldn't surprise me!


----------



## limom

redney said:


> His most recent ex-wife and her daughters love to do the pap walk so perhaps Cait thought it was all that and a bag of chips. Maybe she does have a smidgen of substance after all.


From the Caitlyn show, no substance at all.
On the old show, He was a cranky man imo however he loved his helicopters, golf and took care of his younger kids( driving them back and forth to school )
Now, her life seems so boring and empty.
After the big coming out, her interview with Diane, and the Glamour Freekin woman of the year (bullcrap, imo) award, it seems like she spends her life doing nothing.
I hope that I am wrong and that she has tons going on.
She would have been better off with Kris as she is full of life and schemes.,,,
As far as going back to Bruce, how could she?
It would be admitting that this was wrong all along and that she has a mental defect and was never a woman after all...,


----------



## arnott

BadAzzBish said:


> ^This! Only Cait and God knows the truth but I've always gotten a crossdresser vibe. It's like that 'To Wong Foo' quote - *"A crossdresser is a straight man that likes to dress in womens clothes for kicks! A transgender is a person who feels trapped in the wrong sex/body. A drag queen is a gay man that has way too much style for one gender *(lol) [emoji3] [emoji6]



Love it!


----------



## guccimamma

limom said:


> From the Caitlyn show, no substance at all.
> On the old show, He was a cranky man imo however he loved his helicopters, golf and took care of his younger kids( driving them back and forth to school )
> Now, her life seems so boring and empty.
> After the big coming out, her interview with Diane, and the Glamour Freekin woman of the year (bullcrap, imo) award, it seems like she spends her life doing nothing.
> I hope that I am wrong and that she has tons going on.
> She would have been better off with Kris as she is full of life and schemes.,,,
> As far as going back to Bruce, how could she?
> It would be admitting that *this was wrong all along and that she has a mental defect and was never a woman after all..*.,



my money is on the mental defect. i think she'd be better off living in kris's guest room. i don't think she's well in the head.


----------



## berrydiva

DC-Cutie said:


> anybody think Caitlyn will return to being Bruce?


With this family, I would not be shocked and to some degree I almost expect it to happen.


----------



## guccimamma

DC-Cutie said:


> anybody think Caitlyn will return to being Bruce?



yes, i do.   i also think dementia is on the horizon.


----------



## Jayne1

DC-Cutie said:


> anybody think Caitlyn will return to being Bruce?


No, she said she's really at peace getting dressed up as a woman and not having to instantly remove her nail polish when she gets back to the hotel room.

Did anyone else see that recent interview?  She uses the decades old, out of town, secretly dressing up to go for walks as an example all the time. It always surprises me that she would do her nails for an hour to go for a walk, but what do I know.  Now she has a team and doesn't have to do anything for herself.

I'm rambling, but I do think she's happy as a woman, but very, very bored without a reality TV show. Probably going back to the K one, because she seems to desperately need the attention.


----------



## limom

^^
Yes, she should be back on, living in a guest house or something.
 golden girls kardashian style


----------



## bisousx

guccimamma said:


> it is very interesting how this thread has evolved.
> 
> so much unwavering support for her in the beginning,  seems like the reality of bruce/caitlin isn't living up to expectations.
> 
> i still think he should have just gone with the sporty spice/PE teacher look, but i may get flamed for that again.
> 
> i just don't see how this makes her happier, she is living alone on a hill overlooking malibu....i doubt she has a decent relationship with her kids.  i just don't see how dressing up and prancing around for the paps makes her happy at this age.



People supported the transition, not Bruce or Caitlyn's personality or values. 

Caitlyn seems genuinely unhappy in photos, so while I think she looks good in some photos and terrible in others.. Who am I to poke at someone while they're clearly down.

As for if Caitlyn is confused at her new life as a woman.. I don't have an opinion. Just glad I don't have to go through that especially with the world watching.


----------



## kemilia

DC-Cutie said:


> anybody think Caitlyn will return to being Bruce?


I feel there is a good chance, though it will be a gradual process so as not to draw a lot of attention. Shorter hair, different types of clothing and shoes.


----------



## Lauren611

I am so proud of her for doing this.  I am not sure I could have done it being in the public eye with so much judgement.  I hope she keeps her chin up and finds true happiness.


----------



## sdkitty

kemilia said:


> I feel there is a good chance, though it will be a gradual process so as not to draw a lot of attention. Shorter hair, different types of clothing and shoes.


Well that would be really bizarre.  to say you've always felt like a woman, to take all the hormones, etc., to go public with a woman's name and then to change back.  "Oh, never mind, I feel like a man again"?


----------



## gillianna

I get the vibe that he/she is just one big attention whore.  I did not watch any of their shows but in the K klan show I doubt Bruce was ever the center of attention or even had a good scripted story.  I don't think any of his step kids or real kids respect him/her.  So basically even with all the money and fame he/she seems to look miserable in all the pap pictures.    What is there to do to occupy the day?  Pap walk for coffee, wear a new dress, a new weave?  

 It probably was hard being the big new thing with all the attention and "you look beautiful" fake words from the press wanting interviews to now having a show cancelled because nobody is interested and having a family who is too busy making $$$$ by their own actions that do not include Caitlyn.  Can she find true love with a woman since she is not into men?  Would many woman want to date her?  From pap pictures she looks like a very unhappy, angry and confused person.  She really can't change going back to Bruce and aging as Caitlyn is not going to be pretty.  Is she really doing more than playing dress up at this point?


----------



## chowlover2

I think she did not take into account the fact that she would be a lesbian if she is still interested in women vs men. CJ was just focusing on the visible aspects of being a woman. Clothing, makeup and hair. Also her strong ********** agenda does not make being a lesbian more palatable. She would have been better living as a cross dresser, as she is now basically screwed.


----------



## sdkitty

chowlover2 said:


> I think she did not take into account the fact that she would be a lesbian if she is still interested in women vs men. CJ was just focusing on the visible aspects of being a woman. Clothing, makeup and hair. Also her strong ********** agenda does not make being a lesbian more palatable. She would have been better living as a cross dresser, as she is now basically screwed.


yes, if she just wanted to wear the clothes, etc, she could have just done that at home and not made the huge deal out of being transgender.....maybe she did get envious of all the attention the Kardashian women got.  but then again, she expressed that she wanted to do this years ago when she was married to linda thompson.  I don't pretend to understand.


----------



## Sasha2012

She's been keeping somewhat of a low profile since it was announced last month that her reality series is cancelled.

And on Friday, Caitlyn Jenner cut a solo figure again as she picked up her coffee fix in Calabasas.

The 66-year-old confirmed two weeks ago that her series I Am Cait wouldn't be returning for a third season due to low ratings.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-jean-shorts-white-sweater.html#ixzz4JPJiW86H


----------



## DC-Cutie

She looks like Debbie Rowe, when she was slimmer


----------



## mama13drama99

guccimamma said:


> it is very interesting how this thread has evolved.
> 
> so much unwavering support for her in the beginning,  seems like the reality of bruce/caitlin isn't living up to expectations.
> 
> i still think he should have just gone with the sporty spice/PE teacher look, but i may get flamed for that again.
> 
> i just don't see how this makes her happier, she is living alone on a hill overlooking malibu....i doubt she has a decent relationship with her kids.  i just don't see how dressing up and prancing around for the paps makes her happy at this age.



I actually thought the same thing a few months back.  What a difference time has made.  There was so much super-cheerleading and bashing of those who didn't say that he/she was all great and wonderful going on here.  I distinctly recall many of the non-cheerleaders saying that they "took issue" (for lack of a better description at the moment) with Bruce and the mockery of it all.  That was somehow translated to being insensitive and phobic of all transgender issues and the trans-community.  I stop frequenting the thread because it was absurd. There was censorship, berating, etc. too.  But ohhhh, how Jenner has done much (of nothing) to prove us right.  Any speaking engagements?  And charitable deeds?  Any empowerment?  And if so, is it the same amount or more than all of the self-absorbed stuff? 

And for good measure because I will continue to visit this thread infrequently I want to address the "candid" appearances/photos, Jenner STILL looks a hot mess...ALWAYS!  He did when all of this hit the fan then and it's even worse now.  Far too often are the pictures showing what looks like a wounded deer by the side of the road.  Face always contorted in a non-flattering way.  Mouth like a fish gasping for air on dry land.  Gait like Mrs. Doubtfire. And eyes like a zombie extra from the Walking Dead.  Yet, you won't find but may one or two blogs/writers/magazines really calling the looks what they are...hot garbage!  They lie with the "______ slays" or "______'s beautiful ensemble"...yeah right!  The clothes probably are pretty...on someone else!


----------



## clevercat

mama13drama99 said:


> I actually thought the same thing a few months back.  What a difference time has made.  There was so much super-cheerleading and bashing of those who didn't say that he/she was all great and wonderful going on here.  I distinctly recall many of the non-cheerleaders saying that they "took issue" (for lack of a better description at the moment) with Bruce and the mockery of it all.  That was somehow translated to being insensitive and phobic of all transgender issues and the trans-community.  I stop frequenting the thread because it was absurd. There was censorship, berating, etc. too.  But ohhhh, how Jenner has done much (of nothing) to prove us right.  Any speaking engagements?  And charitable deeds?  Any empowerment?  And if so, is it the same amount or more than all of the self-absorbed stuff?
> 
> And for good measure because I will continue to visit this thread infrequently I want to address the "candid" appearances/photos, Jenner STILL looks a hot mess...ALWAYS!  He did when all of this hit the fan then and it's even worse now.  Far too often are the pictures showing what looks like a wounded deer by the side of the road.  Face always contorted in a non-flattering way.  Mouth like a fish gasping for air on dry land.  Gait like Mrs. Doubtfire. And eyes like a zombie extra from the Walking Dead.  Yet, you won't find but may one or two blogs/writers/magazines really calling the looks what they are...hot garbage!  They lie with the "______ slays" or "______'s beautiful ensemble"...yeah right!  The clothes probably are pretty...on someone else!


----------



## mama13drama99

clevercat said:


> View attachment 3459417



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] I am stealing this from you Clevercat [emoji6]!


----------



## clevercat

mama13drama99 said:


> [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] I am stealing this from you Clevercat [emoji6]!


Lol - happy to share  Its such a classic, isn't it.


----------



## cdtracing

mama13drama99 said:


> I actually thought the same thing a few months back.  What a difference time has made.  There was so much super-cheerleading and bashing of those who didn't say that he/she was all great and wonderful going on here.  I distinctly recall many of the non-cheerleaders saying that they "took issue" (for lack of a better description at the moment) with Bruce and the mockery of it all.  That was somehow translated to being insensitive and phobic of all transgender issues and the trans-community.  I stop frequenting the thread because it was absurd. There was censorship, berating, etc. too.  But ohhhh, how Jenner has done much (of nothing) to prove us right.  Any speaking engagements?  And charitable deeds?  Any empowerment?  And if so, is it the same amount or more than all of the self-absorbed stuff?
> 
> And for good measure because I will continue to visit this thread infrequently I want to address the "candid" appearances/photos, Jenner STILL looks a hot mess...ALWAYS!  He did when all of this hit the fan then and it's even worse now.  Far too often are the pictures showing what looks like a wounded deer by the side of the road.  Face always contorted in a non-flattering way.  Mouth like a fish gasping for air on dry land.  Gait like Mrs. Doubtfire. And eyes like a zombie extra from the Walking Dead.  *Yet, you won't find but may one or two blogs/writers/magazines really calling the looks what they are...hot garbage!  They lie with the "______ slays" or "______'s beautiful ensemble"...yeah right!  The clothes probably are pretty...on someone else!*



With this family, Caitlyn included,  the media gives them all a pass saying how wonderful they look, they're stunning, they're fashion plates, ect. when we all have eyes to see they are not.  That whole family makes style choices that boggle the mind let alone whether most of it is appropriate, especially Kim.  
I think it's a shame that Caitlyn/Bruce could not have used this opportunity to empower people who are transgender.  From what I watched of the show, he/she came across as just as self absorbed as the rest of the Kartrashians.  Sorry, but it seems like Caitlyn's 15 minutes of fame are up & fans can be fickle.  Maybe that's why he/she always looks so wounded & isolated.


----------



## cdtracing

clevercat said:


> View attachment 3459417



I love this!!!!   I need to steal this myself!!


----------



## Oryx816

@mama13drama99 kudos for your insightful comment!  I left this thread for awhile as well because there was only one opinion allowed at the time and it was ridiculous.  

I live in a country where interacting with transgender people and transvestites is a DAILY occurrence.  Nobody cares.  The spectacle of Jenner's transformation was unbearable and ridiculous even from this side of the world.  

I felt then, and now that he enjoys the superficial aspects of being a woman but otherwise, he is the same self absorbed man he has always shown himself to be.  He would do well to get some therapy and indulge in some deep introspection instead of chopping off his twig and berries.


----------



## Oryx816

clevercat said:


> View attachment 3459417



I too have nabbed it!  [emoji23]


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner looked solemn as she celebrated Labor Day alone in Malibu on Monday.

Her son, Brandon Jenner, was also in Malibu with his wife and daughter but it doesn't seem as though Caitlyn joined them for the festivities at the Malibu Fair.

The former Olympian kept it sporty as she donned a golfing outfit complete with a polo shirt and a black skirt.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ps-coffee-Malibu-Labor-Day.html#ixzz4JRezZtYl


----------



## redney

Golf shoes in the coffee shop and parking lot, WTF?


----------



## Oryx816

Jenner certainly doesn't look an ounce happier than he did as Bruce.


----------



## clevercat

Radiating misery and discontent as per...


----------



## JenW

clevercat said:


> Radiating misery and discontent as per...


It ain't an easy row to hoe, for sure.


----------



## ChanelMommy

She looks like Bruce in a skirt in these last couple of pics.


----------



## chowlover2

ChanelMommy said:


> She looks like Bruce in a skirt in these last couple of pics.


I don't think she ever stopped looking like Bruce.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner grabbed her daily Cup of Joe on Thursday near her home in Malibu.

The reality star, 66, stepped out in some faded dark skinny jeans and a baggy black top that featured voluminous sleeves and a scoop mesh neck.

She opted not to cover up with a baseball cap as she did earlier in the week and showed off her long hair styled away from her face with a backcomb.

Caitlyn is the parent of Kendall and Kylie Jenner and also became a stepdad to the Kardashian children after trying the knot with momager Kris in 1991.

After being accused of insensitivity for posting a happy snap of herself and daughter Kylie at a car show after stepdaughter Kim's Paris ordeal, she took to Instagram again Wednesday to rectify the situation.

Sharing a black and white photo of the 35-year-old, she wrote: 'Love my girl!'

'After hearing the full story, I’m so thankful she’s okay. It’s a reminder for us all to be careful in the uncertainty of this world.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-Kardashian-s-Paris-ordeal.html#ixzz4MMPzpRY7


----------



## rockhollow

good lord, Caitlyn is channeling Bruce here for sure.
Her weave is looking really rough, but hiding it under a baseball cap is not a good look for her.

And what's with the Kardashian's obsession with those furry keychains? I see Caitlyn has one on her purse as well.


----------



## Deco

rockhollow said:


> View attachment 3487799
> 
> 
> good lord, *Caitlyn is channeling Bruce* here for sure.
> Her weave is looking really rough, but hiding it under a baseball cap is not a good look for her.
> 
> And what's with the Kardashian's obsession with those furry keychains? I see Caitlyn has one on her purse as well.




because they're expensive Fendis. They wouldn't be obsessed otherwise.


----------



## rockhollow

Decophile said:


> because they're expensive Fendis. They wouldn't be obsessed otherwise.



I didn't know that.
I saw some in a 'teen' store in the mall,  and wondered what they were all about. Thanks for the info.


----------



## cdtracing

rockhollow said:


> View attachment 3487799
> 
> 
> good lord, Caitlyn is channeling Bruce here for sure.
> Her weave is looking really rough, but hiding it under a baseball cap is not a good look for her.
> 
> And what's with the Kardashian's obsession with those furry keychains? I see Caitlyn has one on her purse as well.



Caitlyn looks like warmed over Hell in these pics.  Just saying....


----------



## twin-fun

cdtracing said:


> Caitlyn looks like warmed over Hell in these pics.  Just saying....


Who of us hasn't at some point?


----------



## Jayne1

cdtracing said:


> Caitlyn looks like warmed over Hell in these pics.  Just saying....


She has to look sad.  Kim went through the worst ordeal!


----------



## LemonDrop

I feel sorry for her. Caitlyn probably spent many unhappy years as Bruce, thinking if he was only a woman that would solve everything. That would be his key to happiness. Many people spend years thinking, I will be happy when XYZ happens. I can't imagine being 65 years old and doing something so outrageous expecting to finally be happy. And then you realize you're still not happy. What else are you going to do? This is your life and you don't have much more time left to change it. I just feel sorry for him.


----------



## DesigningStyle

She looks terrible.  It is not just the outward appearance, but this type of "terrible" is radiating from deep within.  I hope she is okay.


----------



## White Orchid

I don't. 


LemonDrop said:


> I feel sorry for her. Caitlyn probably spent many unhappy years as Bruce, thinking if he was only a woman that would solve everything. That would be his key to happiness. Many people spend years thinking, I will be happy when XYZ happens. I can't imagine being 65 years old and doing something so outrageous expecting to finally be happy. And then you realize you're still not happy. What else are you going to do? This is your life and you don't have much more time left to change it. I just feel sorry for him.


----------



## Brklynjuice87

White Orchid said:


> I don't.


 
Me either he has it way better than a lot of trans people


----------



## chowlover2

+2!


----------



## cdtracing

Caitlyn is an unhappy person.  He was unhappy as Bruce & probably thought the change would make everything perfect & happy.  Unfortunately, his problems & issues go deeper than just gender which is why Caitlyn isn't happy either.  And it shows.

I don't feel sorry for him/her.  The choices were his to make & now he has to live & deal with them.  Just like everyone else has to live & deal with theirs.


----------



## mrsinsyder

White Orchid said:


> I don't.



Me neither, she's a piece of crap as either gender.


----------



## chowlover2

I don't think Caitlyn thought out the whole transgender dating thing through for one. I think Caitlyn is still attracted to women, which makes her a lesbian. Nothing wrong with that to many of us, but to a buttoned up ********** like Bruce, it's huge. Not to mention being part of the LGBT community, most **********s are not your friend. ********s and their agenda is much more agreeable to LGBT. I doubt if any of this sits well with her.

What I have a hard time wrapping my head around is what was Bruce thinking all those years? Did he just think it was dressing up? He says he felt like a woman at 12. That it was just clothing? That's a whole different thing and it's called cross dressing. Again, nothing wrong with that. But if I was going to undergo electrolysis, two breast augmentations, Adams apple shaving as well as forehead shaving, I would have put a whole lot more thought into everything. Caitlyn will never be happy.


----------



## TC1

Caitlyn is not attractive.Having all the money to put towards multiple surgeries will give you the fake boobs, etc. But you can't wave a magic wand and be beautiful. I somehow believe Bruce thought that after these operations..Caitlyn would be a beauty. She still radiates misery to me.


----------



## VickyB

sdkitty said:


> yes, if she just wanted to wear the clothes, etc, she could have just done that at home and not made the huge deal out of being transgender.....maybe she did get envious of all the attention the Kardashian women got.  but then again, she expressed that she wanted to do this years ago when she was married to linda thompson.  I don't pretend to understand.


I'm with you! I've totally lost the Bruce/Caitlin plot.


----------



## tweegy

TC1 said:


> Caitlyn is not attractive.Having all the money to put towards multiple surgeries will give you the fake boobs, etc. But you can't wave a magic wand and be beautiful. I somehow believe Bruce thought that after these operations..Caitlyn would be a beauty. She still radiates misery to me.


That's the  thing they dont get I suppose, you can change outside all you want its inside that you gotta work on...


----------



## Jayne1

Interesting article.  The writer sounds a bit angry because her suggestions were not used and her footage was dropped, but she does make some sound suggestions about Cait's more stubbornly masculine ways.  I think a lot of posters here see that, when they look at photos of her going for a pap/coffee run.

Some excerpts:

_When Caitlyn Jenner  first made her transition from male to female, I filmed a segment at with her at her home, way on top of a hill in Malibu, for her show ( I am Cait). In our segment, there was some intensive voice and speech training that unfortunately never made it to air. I showed her videotape of herself  appearing on  Diane Sawyer’s 20/20 interview and  analyzed it. I relayed to her which speech, voice, and body language patterns were masculine and feminine and what she needed to work on. She seemed very receptive.  We then did  some speech, body language, and  vocal exercises. The story line was that I was supposed to tell her not to have surgery  on her vocal cords, which she was  supposedly considering in  order to sound more feminine. During our shoot, I told her that surgery was not a good idea. I also told her that there may be some dangers associated with the surgery that could harm her voice in the long run and that she instead, needed to do a regimine of vocal and speech and body language exercises. I also shared this in the confessional.

The segment never made it on air on the first season. Instead of me, they were able to secure Kim Kardashian,  to discuss Caitlyn’s voice and the prospect of surgery. Therefore, the storyline was now covered by Kim. So, producers told my agent at the time, that they would like to have me on the second season. This didn’t happen as the show changed it’s course and was  now more along the lines of road trips with Caitlyn and several of her fellow transgender friends.

---

As time passed, as I began to see  and hear Caitlyn on talk shows, award shows, interviews and speaking on her own show. I was  very disappointed.  If she was getting speech and voice and body language training from her  new coach, who was allegedly transgender, it was clearly  not working. My initial concerns were right.  The person  helping her did not have all the tools and experience to effectively  help Caitlyn. In all fairness to her coach, maybe it was Caitlyn who wasn’t doing what she was supposed to do in order to make that vocal, verbal,  and nonverbal transition.

As I would observe Caitlyn on these shows, her voice was indeed masculine. She did not incorporate any of the inflection exercises I suggested -to go up on adjectives and at end of sentences and to have a more flowing breathy quality. Instead, her voice sounded raspy  and gravely and very masculine. She didn’t draw out her vowels when she spoke , like she was told to do. Instead, she  spoke in a clipped masculine manner like she did when she was Bruce Jenner. Facially, I encouraged her to smile- a more feminine facial gesture- which she rarely, if ever, did. I remember when I shared with her that she needed to smile more, she balked and said Kim ( Kardashian)  never smiled. Body language wise I taught her to walk in a more feminine posture, which she clearly did not incorporate.

Instead, whenever I saw her on video or in photos, she appeared  hunched over, taking huge steps and literally clumping around instead of the feminine walk I taught her. Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed.

She seemed more concerned about getting larger breasts and plumped out lips and changing her hairstyle.But all of those superficial things so not a woman make.

In one cringeworthy episode where she supposedly was flirting with a man, it was uncomfortable to watch as she scrunched up her face and lips  and  finally patted him on the shoulder. Clearly,  she still needs some major help if she really wants to be seen as female._


https://drlillianglassbodylanguageb...how-may-be-a-blessing-in-disguise/#more-15971


----------



## tweegy

chowlover2 said:


> I don't think Caitlyn thought out the whole transgender dating thing through for one. I think Caitlyn is still attracted to women, which makes her a lesbian. Nothing wrong with that to many of us, but to a buttoned up ********** like Bruce, it's huge. Not to mention being part of the LGBT community, most **********s are not your friend. ********s and their agenda is much more agreeable to LGBT. I doubt if any of this sits well with her.
> 
> What I have a hard time wrapping my head around is what was Bruce thinking all those years? Did he just think it was dressing up? He says he felt like a woman at 12. That it was just clothing? That's a whole different thing and it's called cross dressing. Again, nothing wrong with that. But if I was going to undergo electrolysis, two breast augmentations, Adams apple shaving as well as forehead shaving, I would have put a whole lot more thought into everything. Caitlyn will never be happy.


Truly its all very confusing..before unveiling caitlyn bruce made her sound like an entire other person...it sounded like someone with personality disorder. But Caitlyn likes, helicopters and cars and golf which bruce likes..But Caitlyn cant seem to get this whole makeup and 'being a girl' thing cause its new..But he's been a girl for years he says... He never made any sense..


----------



## dangerouscurves

Jayne1 said:


> Interesting article.  The writer sounds a bit angry because her suggestions were not used and her footage was dropped, but she does make some sound suggestions about Cait's more stubbornly masculine ways.  I think a lot of posters here see that, when they look at photos of her going for a pap/coffee run.
> 
> Some excerpts:
> 
> _When Caitlyn Jenner  first made her transition from male to female, I filmed a segment at with her at her home, way on top of a hill in Malibu, for her show ( I am Cait). In our segment, there was some intensive voice and speech training that unfortunately never made it to air. I showed her videotape of herself  appearing on  Diane Sawyer’s 20/20 interview and  analyzed it. I relayed to her which speech, voice, and body language patterns were masculine and feminine and what she needed to work on. She seemed very receptive.  We then did  some speech, body language, and  vocal exercises. The story line was that I was supposed to tell her not to have surgery  on her vocal cords, which she was  supposedly considering in  order to sound more feminine. During our shoot, I told her that surgery was not a good idea. I also told her that there may be some dangers associated with the surgery that could harm her voice in the long run and that she instead, needed to do a regimine of vocal and speech and body language exercises. I also shared this in the confessional.
> 
> The segment never made it on air on the first season. Instead of me, they were able to secure Kim Kardashian,  to discuss Caitlyn’s voice and the prospect of surgery. Therefore, the storyline was now covered by Kim. So, producers told my agent at the time, that they would like to have me on the second season. This didn’t happen as the show changed it’s course and was  now more along the lines of road trips with Caitlyn and several of her fellow transgender friends.
> 
> ---
> 
> As time passed, as I began to see  and hear Caitlyn on talk shows, award shows, interviews and speaking on her own show. I was  very disappointed.  If she was getting speech and voice and body language training from her  new coach, who was allegedly transgender, it was clearly  not working. My initial concerns were right.  The person  helping her did not have all the tools and experience to effectively  help Caitlyn. In all fairness to her coach, maybe it was Caitlyn who wasn’t doing what she was supposed to do in order to make that vocal, verbal,  and nonverbal transition.
> 
> As I would observe Caitlyn on these shows, her voice was indeed masculine. She did not incorporate any of the inflection exercises I suggested -to go up on adjectives and at end of sentences and to have a more flowing breathy quality. Instead, her voice sounded raspy  and gravely and very masculine. She didn’t draw out her vowels when she spoke , like she was told to do. Instead, she  spoke in a clipped masculine manner like she did when she was Bruce Jenner. Facially, I encouraged her to smile- a more feminine facial gesture- which she rarely, if ever, did. I remember when I shared with her that she needed to smile more, she balked and said Kim ( Kardashian)  never smiled. Body language wise I taught her to walk in a more feminine posture, which she clearly did not incorporate.
> 
> Instead, whenever I saw her on video or in photos, she appeared  hunched over, taking huge steps and literally clumping around instead of the feminine walk I taught her. Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed.
> 
> She seemed more concerned about getting larger breasts and plumped out lips and changing her hairstyle.But all of those superficial things so not a woman make.
> 
> In one cringeworthy episode where she supposedly was flirting with a man, it was uncomfortable to watch as she scrunched up her face and lips  and  finally patted him on the shoulder. Clearly,  she still needs some major help if she really wants to be seen as female._
> 
> 
> https://drlillianglassbodylanguageb...how-may-be-a-blessing-in-disguise/#more-15971



This is what we've been talking about! I was very supportive at first when he made the transition but then she has no feminity in her at all. She talks and walks like a man. When you hear Jefree Star talks, he/she has this feminity in pronouncing words and the way she talks. Not Caitlyn.


----------



## bag-mania

^^^I get the impression that bitterness over being replaced on the show by Kim is the author's motive in writing that article. And aren't trans people allowed to interpret what it means to be the other sex on their own without being expected to conform to stereotype?


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> Interesting article.  The writer sounds a bit angry because her suggestions were not used and her footage was dropped, but she does make some sound suggestions about Cait's more stubbornly masculine ways.  I think a lot of posters here see that, when they look at photos of her going for a pap/coffee run.
> 
> Some excerpts:
> 
> _When Caitlyn Jenner  first made her transition from male to female, I filmed a segment at with her at her home, way on top of a hill in Malibu, for her show ( I am Cait). In our segment, there was some intensive voice and speech training that unfortunately never made it to air. I showed her videotape of herself  appearing on  Diane Sawyer’s 20/20 interview and  analyzed it. I relayed to her which speech, voice, and body language patterns were masculine and feminine and what she needed to work on. She seemed very receptive.  We then did  some speech, body language, and  vocal exercises. The story line was that I was supposed to tell her not to have surgery  on her vocal cords, which she was  supposedly considering in  order to sound more feminine. During our shoot, I told her that surgery was not a good idea. I also told her that there may be some dangers associated with the surgery that could harm her voice in the long run and that she instead, needed to do a regimine of vocal and speech and body language exercises. I also shared this in the confessional.
> 
> The segment never made it on air on the first season. Instead of me, they were able to secure Kim Kardashian,  to discuss Caitlyn’s voice and the prospect of surgery. Therefore, the storyline was now covered by Kim. So, producers told my agent at the time, that they would like to have me on the second season. This didn’t happen as the show changed it’s course and was  now more along the lines of road trips with Caitlyn and several of her fellow transgender friends.
> 
> ---
> 
> As time passed, as I began to see  and hear Caitlyn on talk shows, award shows, interviews and speaking on her own show. I was  very disappointed.  If she was getting speech and voice and body language training from her  new coach, who was allegedly transgender, it was clearly  not working. My initial concerns were right.  The person  helping her did not have all the tools and experience to effectively  help Caitlyn. In all fairness to her coach, maybe it was Caitlyn who wasn’t doing what she was supposed to do in order to make that vocal, verbal,  and nonverbal transition.
> 
> As I would observe Caitlyn on these shows, her voice was indeed masculine. She did not incorporate any of the inflection exercises I suggested -to go up on adjectives and at end of sentences and to have a more flowing breathy quality. Instead, her voice sounded raspy  and gravely and very masculine. She didn’t draw out her vowels when she spoke , like she was told to do. Instead, she  spoke in a clipped masculine manner like she did when she was Bruce Jenner. Facially, I encouraged her to smile- a more feminine facial gesture- which she rarely, if ever, did. I remember when I shared with her that she needed to smile more, she balked and said Kim ( Kardashian)  never smiled. Body language wise I taught her to walk in a more feminine posture, which she clearly did not incorporate.
> 
> Instead, whenever I saw her on video or in photos, she appeared  hunched over, taking huge steps and literally clumping around instead of the feminine walk I taught her. Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed.
> 
> She seemed more concerned about getting larger breasts and plumped out lips and changing her hairstyle.But all of those superficial things so not a woman make.
> 
> In one cringeworthy episode where she supposedly was flirting with a man, it was uncomfortable to watch as she scrunched up her face and lips  and  finally patted him on the shoulder. Clearly,  she still needs some major help if she really wants to be seen as female._
> 
> 
> https://drlillianglassbodylanguageb...how-may-be-a-blessing-in-disguise/#more-15971


Good article, I think the writer hit the nail on the head!


----------



## tweegy

dangerouscurves said:


> This is what we've been talking about! I was very supportive at first when he made the transition but then she has no feminity in her at all. She talks and walks like a man. When you hear Jefree Star talks, he/she has this feminity in pronouncing words and the way she talks. Not Caitlyn.


Exactly. I agree with what you're saying this is why I raised my eyebrow when this all came out.

I knew one of the first transgender persons in my country she is really beautiful inside and out. She looks better than some women and if some didn't know her would really assume she was born one...even folks who went to school with her before she transitioned said she was very feminine..

Why does Caitlyn need a coach if she was a woman all along?


----------



## Jayne1

All the lovely trans women on Cait's show were very feminine. 

Some didn't like makeup and were no nonsense about their looks and some were very girly, with all the makeup and extensions they could pile on, but they all oozed femininity, even the ones who didn't pay much attention to being overly womanly.  They just were womanly.


----------



## labelwhore04

Jayne1 said:


> All the lovely trans women on Cait's show were very feminine.
> 
> Some didn't like makeup and were no nonsense about their looks and some were very girly, with all the makeup and extensions they could pile on, but they all oozed femininity, even the ones who didn't pay much attention to being overly womanly.  They just were womanly.



Yeah i have to agree,  Caitlyn is very un-feminine compared to the other women on the show. I don't know what to make of that really, i don't think that Cait is faking or anything, but you would think that feeling like a woman all your life would make it feel natural to act like one. Cait still has all her masculine qualities, but then again she transitioned at 65 years old where as the women on the show all transitioned fairly young.


----------



## dangerouscurves

bag-mania said:


> ^^^I get the impression that bitterness over being replaced on the show by Kim is the author's motive in writing that article. And aren't trans people allowed to interpret what it means to be the other sex on their own without being expected to conform to stereotype?



Girl! If my friend tells me she's gonna go designer-bag shopping with me and then goes with one of her ratchet girlfriends instead, I'd be pissed off too.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner had a special birthday message for daughter Kendall on Thursday.

The reality star shared a lovely photo of the duo from the night before when they both got glammed up to have dinner at Catch LA.

'School, track practice, cheerleading practice, all that carpool! Now my little girl is 21! Wow, so proud of you, happy birthday.' the 67-year-old wrote.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-daughter-Kendall-birthday.html#ixzz4P0Nm5RZm


----------



## Oryx816

Looking ecstatic as always!

Why are her nails done on the left hand but not the right?


----------



## gillianna

Bruce was ignored and really not a story on their show.  I think he was a desperate fame ho who thought by becoming Caitlyn he would have all the attention he craved.  HE still looks as miserable as Caitlyn as he did as Bruce.  There is no joy in his pictures.  He does the same things for attention which seems to be a pap walk for coffee because it has to be too hard to make it at home.  The novelty of his transition will eventually wear off and the pap pictures will eventually stop.  IS he even capable of having a relationship at this point?  I doubt many women are lining up to date him. He/she has to be just as lonely as being married to Kris.  I mean look at her.  Does anyone believe Corey is a real relationship and not just a paid purse carrier?


----------



## cdtracing

Bruce/Caitlyn still looks miserable.  Since he doesn't have anything else to do except go to Starbucks, maybe he can visit the dentist & get something done  with his saggy neck.  I'm sure he was counting on his transition to Caitlyn being the one thing that would make him happy but he's as much of a nonentity as Caitlyn as he was as Bruce.  That's got to be lonely.

And I noticed his manicure as well....WTH????


----------



## limom

There was a video recently where she was insisting that she had to tee from the women's tee box, the other players refused to let her do it.
She really want every single gender advantages from BOTH genders...
Same with the mani....
I will say that she was a much more involved parent than Kris with the two young girls.


----------



## JenW

Oryx816 said:


> Looking ecstatic as always!
> 
> Why are her nails done on the left hand but not the right?


Probably because she does something with her right hand often that destroys the manicure.


----------



## cdtracing

JenW said:


> Probably because she does something with her right hand often that destroys the manicure.



That or her press on nails came off the right hand.


----------



## JenW

cdtracing said:


> That or her press on nails came off the right hand.


All of them? Hard to believe.


----------



## White Orchid

He's looking more and more like Cindy Crawford everyday.


----------



## limom

White Orchid said:


> He's looking more and more like Cindy Crawford everyday.


It is true.
Is it meant as a compliment, though?


----------



## cdtracing

JenW said:


> All of them? Hard to believe.


Maybe she does something with her right hand that nails would not be good for.   I'll go to the corner now.  WO, have my cocktail ready!!


----------



## White Orchid

limom said:


> It is true.
> Is it meant as a compliment, though?


CC of 20 years ago, most definitely, but not the Candy Crawford of today.  They both look like each other!


----------



## White Orchid

cdtracing said:


> Maybe she does something with her right hand that nails would not be good for.   I'll go to the corner now.  WO, have my cocktail ready!!




You're on your own this time bish


----------



## cdtracing

White Orchid said:


> You're on your own this time bish



Awwwww, c'mon!!  I would have refreshments & hor d'oeuvres waiting for you!!!


----------



## White Orchid

cdtracing said:


> Awwwww, c'mon!!  I would have refreshments & hor d'oeuvres waiting for you!!!


Yeah that boiled pig's head thingie you Southern bishes be cookin' up, no thank YOU Ma'am


----------



## cdtracing

White Orchid said:


> Yeah that boiled pig's head thingie you Southern bishes be cookin' up, no thank YOU Ma'am


Oh, that's not a hor d'oeuvre & not something you eat all the time.  In fact, I don't know of anyone who makes Brunswick stew with pig's heads anymore.  I would be quite happy with some caviar or a fine cheese & crackers.  If we have to go to the corner, no reason not to sit there in style!!


----------



## White Orchid

cdtracing said:


> Oh, that's not a hor d'oeuvre & not something you eat all the time.  In fact, I don't know of anyone who makes Brunswick stew with pig's heads anymore.  I would be quite happy with some caviar or a fine cheese & crackers.  If we have to go to the corner, no reason not to sit there in style!!


OK, I'll bring my Prada and we can both pretend we're decadent bishes.  It'll be the poshest corner, with the poshest bishes cackling away


----------



## cdtracing

White Orchid said:


> OK, I'll bring my Prada and we can both pretend we're decadent bishes.  It'll be the poshest corner, with the poshest bishes cackling away



I'll bring my LV.  Since you don't drink alcohol, I'll bring some sparkling apple cider & we can sit in the corner & make fun of everyone!!


----------



## White Orchid

cdtracing said:


> I'll bring my LV.  Since you don't drink alcohol, I'll bring some sparkling apple cider & we can sit in the corner & make fun of everyone!!


Wonderful dah-ling, woooonderful.  We can just snicker at all the hoi polloi, but especially Caitlyn and co! (cos it's about her remember  )


----------



## cdtracing

White Orchid said:


> Wonderful dah-ling, woooonderful.  We can just snicker at all the hoi polloi, but especially Caitlyn and co! (cos it's about her remember  )



I just love you, Bish!! I'm going to make you a Honorary Southerner of the non pork eating variety!!


----------



## rockhollow

I want to come to that classy corner and enjoy the food and fun, I quite good at bashing the Kardashians/Jenners.
Maybe Caitlyn didn't have enough polish for both hands. With those giant, man paws, it must use a lot of polish to cover her nails.
Caitlyn needs some to give her some pointers on how to carry her arms. She always looks so manly the way she carried her arms.
Is that enough to get a spot?


----------



## White Orchid

cdtracing said:


> I just love you, Bish!! I'm going to make you a Honorary Southerner of the non pork eating variety!!


  I'll be sure to wear my finest attire, wide-brimmed hat 'n' all. 
 *starts practicing punctuating her sentences with phrases like y'all*


----------



## White Orchid

rockhollow said:


> I want to come to that classy corner and enjoy the food and fun, I quite good at bashing the Kardashians/Jenners.
> Maybe Caitlyn didn't have enough polish for both hands. With those giant, man paws, it must use a lot of polish to cover her nails.
> Caitlyn needs some to give her some pointers on how to carry her arms. She always looks so manly the way she carried her arms.
> Is that enough to get a spot?


*slides over*


----------



## troubadour

She was honoured last year to recognize her work in raising LGTQ awareness.

And Caitlyn Jenner looked in fine form as she arrived to the Glamour Women of the Year Awards on Monday night in Hollywood.

The 67-year-old looked to be in a thoughtful mood as she posed on the arrivals carpet in an eye catching gown.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...wards-honoured-year-before.html#ixzz4Q6feHH5j


----------



## Bag*Snob

Her face looks nice here. Overall it is a good look.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Not bad.


----------



## shiny_things

I think for someone of her age, she has probably transitioned as well as she can and in that respect people could be a lot kinder about her looks.

But I was hoping Caitlyn was going to be more of an advocate for being Trans seeing as she has the speaking power and the fame, but it's pretty much all been about the superficial (unsurprising considering the background) and that's disappointing. I find her rather rude and condescending to people who are also Trans to be honest.


----------



## V0N1B2

That photo at the Glamour event is a far cry from that photoshopped mess in Vanity Fair last year. Especially the pic in the Porsche, where it looked like half her torso had been removed.


----------



## redney

Her hair looks good. Can't get past that wonky eye tho. It's similar to PMK's.


----------



## Jayne1

She's had some recent good work.. not sure what she did, though.


----------



## cdtracing

This is a better look but still has an overall masculine look.  I don't know if it's the dress style or what but the first thing that popped into my head was retired female pro wrestler.  It may be the broad shoulders & arms.  I don't know.  Still, I've seen a whole lot worse.


----------



## RueMonge

I like the dress. Flattering and not too much skin.


----------



## mkr

She looks better her than she has in a long time.


----------



## Chloe_chick999

I must say short sleeves/sleeveless suit her best. When she wears long sleeve there's too much emphasis on her catchers mitt hands


----------



## rockhollow

shiny_things said:


> *I think for someone of her age, she has probably transitioned as well as she can and in that respect people could be a lot kinder about her looks.*
> 
> But I was hoping Caitlyn was going to be more of an advocate for being Trans seeing as she has the speaking power and the fame, but it's pretty much all been about the superficial (unsurprising considering the background) and that's disappointing. I find her rather rude and condescending to people who are also Trans to be honest.



I hear what you're saying. I must admit, I've taken a few jabs at Caitlyn, and know it wasn't really right - but I also have said a few kind things as well.
I just feel like she's not really doing the personal work to be more feminine. She's had the PS, and now should work on her mannerisms. I haven't heard her speak in while, but the last time, her voice was still Bruce's, another thing she should work on.
I'm sure she can afford the best to teach her.

And she does look good in this last dress. More covered up is better.


----------



## shiny_things

rockhollow said:


> I hear what you're saying. I must admit, I've taken a few jabs at Caitlyn, and know it wasn't really right - but I also have said a few kind things as well.
> I just feel like she's not really doing the personal work to be more feminine. She's had the PS, and now should work on her mannerisms. I haven't heard her speak in while, but the last time, her voice was still Bruce's, another thing she should work on.
> I'm sure she can afford the best to teach her.
> 
> And she does look good in this last dress. More covered up is better.



I guess when you have lived your life as man for over 60 years, it's going to take several to get the mannerisms right. It can take the voice a couple of years to become feminine too. Considering she only came out as Caitlyn last year, we probably won't see the final result for at least another year. She's still transitioning.


----------



## Jayne1

shiny_things said:


> I guess when you have lived your life as man for over 60 years, it's going to take several to get the mannerisms right. It can take the voice a couple of years to become feminine too. Considering she only came out as Caitlyn last year, we probably won't see the final result for at least another year. She's still transitioning.


But usually, we see trans women just have that intrinsic feminine quality.  We saw that with her paid friends on her TV show.  They all had a femininity, even though some had low voices and some refused to wear makeup or get implants. The quality of  womanliness was there.  

Jenner has a natural male essence and she will have to work exceptionally hard to act womanly, which I doubt she even cares about.  On her show, she didn't seem to care.


----------



## mkr

He's just a crossdresser.


----------



## kemilia

Not bad at all, maybe all the PS is finally settling. Also, the wonky eye seems to be gone.


----------



## berrydiva

mkr said:


> He's just a crossdresser.


Ugh....I want to give Caitlyn the benefit of doubt knowing/witnessing how difficult these transitions are for folks but sadly, I feel like you may be right. There's something off....like not fully committed to the transition and all that it entails.


----------



## berrydiva

Caitlyn looks miserable as Bruce and Bruce looks miserable as Caitlyn.


----------



## shiny_things

Jayne1 said:


> But usually, we see trans women just have that intrinsic feminine quality.  We saw that with her paid friends on her TV show.  They all had a femininity, even though some had low voices and some refused to wear makeup or get implants. The quality of  womanliness was there.
> 
> Jenner has a natural male essence and she will have to work exceptionally hard to act womanly, which I doubt she even cares about.  On her show, she didn't seem to care.



True. But then again I have worked with many Trans people and I think some appear more their chosen gender than others. I guess it's like how people have a view that gay people 'act gay' or have a 'gay quality', people think Trans people have a 'Trans' quality. In my experience it's about 50/50.


----------



## berrydiva

shiny_things said:


> True. But then again I have worked with many Trans people and I think some appear more their chosen gender than others. I guess it's like how people have a view that gay people 'act gay' or have a 'gay quality', people think Trans people have a 'Trans' quality. In my experience it's about 50/50.


I'm going to also add, the perception of "acting" more like their chosen gender first starts with your own expectations of gender roles and tolerance/acceptance. We are okay with girls being "tomboys" but not okay with boys having "feminine" qualities. If one expects that a trans female should all of a sudden develop societal behavioral norms of a female then it becomes a bit more difficult to reconcile. It's a process for sure and like you said it can be 50/50....which is probably based on a whole bunch of factors from family/friends acceptance to continued internal struggles.


----------



## rockhollow

berrydiva said:


> Caitlyn looks miserable as Bruce and Bruce looks miserable as Caitlyn.



Aint this the truth. 
Bruce said he was always so unhappy as a man, you'd think once he got to change, that would make him so happy, but we just are not seeing that.
Even on his 'Cate' show, he seemed unhappy and complained about everything.

And agree with you berrydiva, it seems like he/she doesn't put any effort into the transition now that the PS is done.


----------



## troubadour

She had a big night on Monday when she walked the red carpet at the annual Glamour Awards in LA.
But on Tuesday it was back to her normal routine for Caitlyn Jenner who was spotted on her daily coffee run in Malibu.
The 67-year-old showed off her legs in a busy patterned mini skirt paired with a crisp white polo shirt.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...alibu-patterned-mini-skirt.html#ixzz4QD15Pasp


----------



## rockhollow

After saying I was going to be kinder to Caitlyn

What's up with her headlights on?  It doesn't look cold there.
Or is she wearing those silicon nipples I've just learned about on another thread. And it that's the case - yuck! In fact, yuck either way!


----------



## Pinkpeony123

troubadour said:


> She was honoured last year to recognize her work in raising LGTQ awareness.
> 
> And Caitlyn Jenner looked in fine form as she arrived to the Glamour Women of the Year Awards on Monday night in Hollywood.
> 
> The 67-year-old looked to be in a thoughtful mood as she posed on the arrivals carpet in an eye catching gown.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...wards-honoured-year-before.html#ixzz4Q6feHH5j
> View attachment 3522002
> View attachment 3522003
> View attachment 3522004
> View attachment 3522005


Maybe there is something wrong with Caitlyn's right thumb nail. That one is never polished or  anything


----------



## kkfiregirl

Pinkpeony123 said:


> Maybe there is something wrong with Caitlyn's right thumb nail. That one is never polished or  anything



It's her lucky thumb.


----------



## cdtracing

Not fond of the skinny legs & knobby knees.  Build up those calf muscles.


----------



## mkr

I thought she got her calf muscles shaved down or what ever they call it?


----------



## Chloe_chick999

mkr said:


> I thought she got her calf muscles shaved down or what ever they call it?


Every time I read about shaving down muscle or bone it gives me a shiver! I couldn't even imagine going through something like that.


----------



## chowlover2

mkr said:


> I thought she got her calf muscles shaved down or what ever they call it?


No, that was her forehead and trachea.


----------



## TC1

All of that "shaving down" sounds terrible and painful. I really don't see a lot of difference?. Looks like Bruce with a wig & bolt on boobs.
ETA. I don't really see Caitlyn as transgender....I don't know why?. maybe because when he was Bruce..he mostly just spoke of a desire to dress as female?. Which I see as insulting.


----------



## troubadour

It's a busy time of year with the holidays quickly approaching.
And Caitlyn Jenner looked to have a lot on her plate as she stepped out to run errands in Malibu, California on Friday.
The 67-year-old juggled her coffee as well as a few supplies as she was seen leaving a lumber yard in casual clothing.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...eans-running-errands-alone.html#ixzz4QPbpKa1e


----------



## Pinkpeony123

Caitlyn needs to inquire about those Kim k butt implants.


----------



## cdtracing

That's a back with a crack!!


----------



## chowlover2

Maybe Caitlin is looking to post in the extension cord thread here? Yellow is a bold choice!


----------



## V0N1B2

chowlover2 said:


> Maybe Caitlin is looking to post in the extension cord thread here? Yellow is a bold choice!


*snort* 
She better get it authenticated then because I don't think that store is an authorized retailer.
I will say it's amazing what photoshop and corsets/industrial strength foundation garments can do.


----------



## mkr

You know, Bruce won the decathlon in the Olympics.  I know it was a long time ago, but it's like he lost every single bit of muscle and tone that he ever had.  Did he never lift another thing once he retired from athletics?  I wonder if the drugs he took for his switch to female help him lose all that.


----------



## limom

mkr said:


> You know, Bruce won the decathlon in the Olympics.  I know it was a long time ago, but it's like he lost every single bit of muscle and tone that he ever had.  Did he never lift another thing once he retired from athletics?  I wonder if the drugs he took for his switch to female help him lose all that.


She is close to 70.
It is hard for a person that age to have muscle tone.


----------



## mkr

Believe it or not but my husband's grandfather just turned 98.  He has a full head of gray hair, not an ounce of fat and has muscle tone.  No sagging skin and he has visible muscles.  He is amazing.


----------



## cdtracing

mkr said:


> You know, Bruce won the decathlon in the Olympics.  I know it was a long time ago, but it's like he lost every single bit of muscle and tone that he ever had.  Did he never lift another thing once he retired from athletics?  I wonder if the drugs he took for his switch to female help him lose all that.



I've wondered the same thing.  I'm 61 & while I'm not as toned as I once was, I still have muscle & tone in my legs & calves.  Her legs look worse than my 90 yr old stepfather.


----------



## knasarae

Maybe Caitlyn purposely tried to lose muscle tone in order to be "softer"?  Just a thought.


----------



## cdtracing

knasarae said:


> Maybe Caitlyn purposely tried to lose muscle tone in order to be "softer"?  Just a thought.



And the result was saggy, crepey skin!!


----------



## rockhollow

Funny, when he was with Kris (and on the show) he was obsessed with playing golf. It seemed like he wanted to play everyday. He played in their yard, Driving Range and course.That's got to keep you fairly good shape. 

We don't hear anything much about her love of golf, you'd think she'd be hitting the links all the time now that she had no full time family commitments.

Or does she just sit around that beautiful house with paid employees (that do double shift and glam squad and friends) waiting to attend functions. If she was out and about more, I'm sure we'd have seen photos.


----------



## TC1

Golf seems to have been replaced with pap walks to Starbucks.


----------



## cdtracing

Caitlyn seemed to be more active & fit when he was Bruce.


----------



## V0N1B2

rockhollow said:


> Funny, when he was with Kris (and on the show) he was obsessed with playing golf. It seemed like he wanted to play everyday. He played in their yard, Driving Range and course.That's got to keep you fairly good shape.
> 
> We don't hear anything much about her love of golf, you'd think she'd be hitting the links all the time now that she had no full time family commitments.
> 
> Or does she just sit around that beautiful house with paid employees (that do double shift and glam squad and friends) waiting to attend functions. If she was out and about more, I'm sure we'd have seen photos.


Maybe Caitlyn realized that her fancy country club doesn't treat women the same way as the male members. A lot of clubs are like that. Probably not as much fun having to only golf on certain days and use certain areas of the clubhouse. I wouldn't golf with her, I can't speak though for the women at her club.


----------



## cdtracing

V0N1B2 said:


> Maybe Caitlyn realized that her fancy country club doesn't treat women the same way as the male members. A lot of clubs are like that. Probably not as much fun having to only golf on certain days and use certain areas of the clubhouse. I wouldn't golf with her, I can't speak though for the women at her club.



I wonder does Caitlyn now tee off from the ladies Tee???


----------



## V0N1B2

cdtracing said:


> I wonder does Caitlyn now tee off from the ladies Tee???


Maybe, depends on her handicap. Her game has probably changed slightly since the boobies were added. Probably had to get help with her new swing. That being said, I've golfed with some women who played from the championship tees.  Made me want to throw my clubs in the drink and curl up in a ball and cry.


----------



## PetiteChou

Dunno if anyone is interested but a while back ago on Reddit, a Redditor's mother worked as a stewardess decades ago who met a lot celebrities. Bruce Jenner was married to the guy's mother's coworker and... "_He was married to one of my mom's co-workers. She caught him wearing her panties, bras and make up a few times. Nobody believed her because at the time, all of the gals had a crush on him and he was the "perfect man". Well now we know she was telling the truth_."

Here's the rest of the link with other celebs https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolC...nack_on_scandinavian_airlines_flight/d5yisjd/


----------



## RueMonge

She has the golf socks tan line stilll.  Maybe just doesn't call the paps on golf days.


----------



## cdtracing

RueMonge said:


> She has the golf socks tan line stilll.  Maybe just doesn't call the paps on golf days.


 I noticed that, too.


----------



## Luvbolide

V0N1B2 said:


> Maybe Caitlyn realized that her fancy country club doesn't treat women the same way as the male members. A lot of clubs are like that. Probably not as much fun having to only golf on certain days and use certain areas of the clubhouse. I wouldn't golf with her, I can't speak though for the women at her club.




I suspect that this is exactly what is going on.  She tried to get her golf club to exempt her from rules governing women - not to change or do away with restrictions on women, mind you, just to make a rule that the rules don't apply to her. 

Just like she was/thought as Bruce - happy to live a life of conservative, wealthy, white male privilege.


----------



## rockhollow

Luvbolide said:


> I suspect that this is exactly what is going on.  She tried to get her golf club to exempt her from rules governing women - not to change or do away with restrictions on women, mind you, just to make a rule that the rules don't apply to her.
> 
> Just like she was/thought as Bruce - happy to live a life of conservative, wealthy, white male privilege.



I also wonder if this is what has curbed her golf play.

I agree that is seemed like Caitlyn still wanted to continue her life with Bruce's attitudes and lifestyle, not that of a woman.
I watched the 'Cait show' and that was one of the complains by the other women on the bus with her, in fact they we almost frightened of her manly attitudes at some times. And when they tried to discuss this with Caitlyn, she couldn't seem to understand what they were saying.
It must be a learning curve for people transitioning, but it seemed like Caitlyn didn't feel she needed it.

I wonder if there were lots of these issues that Bruce just didn't think about before/during her transition .


----------



## Sasha2012

She always looks put-together.

And on Saturday morning, Caitlyn Jenner did not disappoint as she was spotted looking stylish while grabbing a coffee and stocking up on groceries.

The 67-year-old reality star wore a trendy outfit for her shopping trip at the high-end Vintage Grocers store in Malibu, undoubtedly approved by one of her many daughters.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...fit-stock-groceries-Malibu.html#ixzz4SYg8eNGf


----------



## Jayne1

So, is that a wig or a weave or what?


----------



## mkr

I don't know but he/she does have the money to have a hair transplant so there's that possibility as well.


----------



## cdtracing

I don't know either. The hair looks thicker & better than it has in months.


----------



## MY2CENT

He has no butt and still looks like dude...


----------



## gillianna

A very unhappy looking guy. Unless there is a  dress up event with Paps only then does the smile look at me having fun photos come out.  In daily life just as miserable as before.


----------



## rockhollow

gillianna said:


> A very unhappy looking guy. Unless there is a  dress up event with Paps only then does the smile look at me having fun photos come out.  In daily life just as miserable as before.



I agree.
What's funny is that Cait's team must phone the paps to let them know she's going to the grocery store, so it not like she wasn't  expecting them to be there.
No one wants to see her 'miserable' face.

I don't believe that's all her own hair - even if she'd has a transplant, it wouldn't have been able to grow that long. She must have lots of extensions in there.

And those man-paws!


----------



## berrydiva

That's a wig if I've ever seen one. Looks like the band at the part.


----------



## berrydiva

MY2CENT said:


> He has no butt and still looks like dude...


...off to go listen to "Dude Looks like a Lady"


----------



## chowlover2

Well, what has she got to be happy about these days? The bloom is off the rose as far as becoming transgender is concerned. Her TV show was cancelled because no one is interested, and the awards seem to have stopped coming in. Her 15 min might finally be over...


----------



## rockhollow

chowlover2 said:


> Well, what has she got to be happy about these days? The bloom is off the rose as far as becoming transgender is concerned. Her TV show was cancelled because no one is interested, and the awards seem to have stopped coming in. Her 15 min might finally be over...


 Ha-Ha!
It must sting a-bit!
Life must have been much more glamorous and exciting at the Kardashian house.


----------



## chowlover2

rockhollow said:


> Ha-Ha!
> It must sting a-bit!
> Life must have been much more glamorous and exciting at the Kardashian house.


Life in Malibu quiet and not a friend ( who hasn't been bought ) in sight...


----------



## Lauren611

What's with only carrying shoulder bags?


----------



## CeeJay

Seriously? .. has she ever done her own make-up? .. I thought she had her own "glam squad"??? 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...gown-latest-make-collection-MAC-revealed.html


----------



## lucifers

I'm sorry, but I still can't


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Looks horrible. As she does most of the time.


----------



## berrydiva

The collection looks nice but it's a lot of permanents in new packaging. I feel like they could've used a better promo picture.


----------



## DC-Cutie

berrydiva said:


> The collection looks nice but it's a lot of permanents in new packaging. I feel like they could've used a better promo picture.


they just working with what they got!  LOL


----------



## gillianna

Magic mirror and photoshop sure fights off the reality of what she looks like in person.


----------



## Jayne1

Her mouth is drooping and with her eyes closed, she looks like she passed out.

From her Instagram:


----------



## mkr

They could have tried harder on her bottom lip.  But she looks decent.


----------



## mrs moulds

Sasha2012 said:


> She always looks put-together.
> 
> And on Saturday morning, Caitlyn Jenner did not disappoint as she was spotted looking stylish while grabbing a coffee and stocking up on groceries.
> 
> The 67-year-old reality star wore a trendy outfit for her shopping trip at the high-end Vintage Grocers store in Malibu, undoubtedly approved by one of her many daughters.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...fit-stock-groceries-Malibu.html#ixzz4SYg8eNGf


Now, if anyone should buy at booty, she should!  It would make her jeans fit a lot better


----------



## berrydiva

DC-Cutie said:


> they just working with what they got!  LOL


They gotta do better than casket fresh.


----------



## chowlover2

berrydiva said:


> They gotta do better than casket fresh.


" dead on "


----------



## zen1965

Awful pic. Who would feel inspired by this to buy this particular make-up range?


----------



## mkr

My grandmother.


----------



## 2goodeyestoo

Maybe it is just me, but I always get Catlin and Jocelyn Wildenstein confused. They look alike to me.


----------



## gillianna

2goodeyestoo said:


> Maybe it is just me, but I always get Catlin and Jocelyn Wildenstein confused. They look alike to me.


Jocelyn has a better wardrobe with more expensive clothing and makes attempts to do hair and makeup.


----------



## Deco

mkr said:


> My grandmother.


Mine too.  She passed away 10 years ago.


----------



## Sasha2012

Inauguration in Washington DC










Daily Mail


----------



## Grace123

Sasha2012 said:


> Inauguration in Washington DC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Mail



OMG!!!!!


----------



## Jayne1

No polish, or nail for that matter, on thumb holding bag. I guess it broke off. I don't understand fake nails though.


----------



## cdtracing

Sasha2012 said:


> Inauguration in Washington DC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Mail



WOW!!!  Just don't know where to start.  I don't understand why the thumb hasn't been manicured. What's up with that??  I think Bruce/Caitlyn's shoulders are a little too broad for a one shouldered gown.  Arms still look very "manish".  Hair looks like crap but I like the earrings.   I guess the expression on the man behind her/him says it all.


----------



## sdkitty

cdtracing said:


> WOW!!!  Just don't know where to start.  I don't understand why the thumb hasn't been manicured. What's up with that??  I think Bruce/Caitlyn's shoulders are a little too broad for a one shouldered gown.  Arms still look very "manish".  Hair looks like crap but I like the earrings.   I guess the expression on the man behind her/him says it all.


nail must have fallen off
sorry but she looks like a guy in drag IMO


----------



## cdtracing

sdkitty said:


> nail must have fallen off
> sorry but she looks like a guy in drag IMO


Those press on nails just don't cut it.  Bruce/Caitlyn needs to find a good nail salon &  get them professionally done.


----------



## mkr

He's such a lazy woman.


----------



## kemilia

Jayne1 said:


> No polish, or nail for that matter, on thumb holding bag. I guess it broke off. I don't understand fake nails though.


Check old pics--this nail usually doesn't have color.


----------



## White Orchid

Jayne1 said:


> No polish, or nail for that matter, on thumb holding bag. I guess it broke off. I don't understand fake nails though.


Looks like nail fungus to me   So did he and Mr ***** dance?  I haven't watched the news yet.


----------



## rockhollow

Oh goodness - did Caitlyn's glam squad jump ship?
She's looking really rough here.
And if Kimmy's dressing her, she missed the mark on this dress. Caitlyn should never go out in a one shouldered dress.


----------



## berrydiva

mkr said:


> He's such a lazy woman.


I actually snorted just now.


----------



## berrydiva

That wig is a mess. I will say the color looks good. 

That thumb nail always seems unpolished or like the press on fell off, I'm wondering if something is wrong with that nail in general. Maybe Caitlyn should look into colored powder gel tips instead.


----------



## Luvbolide

Sasha2012 said:


> Inauguration in Washington DC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Mail




She carries that bag like it is a football.  Ridiculous.


----------



## V0N1B2

Luvbolide said:


> She carries that bag like it is a football.  Ridiculous.


----------



## mkr

Luvbolide said:


> She carries that bag like it is a football.  Ridiculous.


No like a shotput.  Remember, she's the world's strongest man.


----------



## chowlover2

mkr said:


> He's such a lazy woman.


Especially since he said one of his goals was to wear nail polish and not have to take it right off...

MKR, you are knocking it out of the park in all the threads today!


----------



## mkr

chowlover2 said:


> Especially since he said one of his goals was to wear nail polish and not have to take it right off...
> 
> MKR, you are knocking it out of the park in all the threads today!


Must be the wine.


----------



## Sasha2012

Arriving at LAX after from Washington.














Daily Mail


----------



## cdtracing

Luvbolide said:


> She carries that bag like it is a football.  Ridiculous.


I spit my water out!!!


----------



## chowlover2

Luvbolide said:


> She carries that bag like it is a football.  Ridiculous.


She walks like a linebacker, so I guess it is to be expected.


----------



## V0N1B2

Something looks different from her MAC ads. I can't quite put my blur tool finger on it.


----------



## White Orchid

I doubt anyone wants to touch that.  Male or female.


----------



## cdtracing

Really should get that thumbnail looked at by a professional.  Nail fungus can be cured.  Looks pretty silly with polish on all the other fingers & that thumb is bare.


----------



## V0N1B2

White Orchid said:


> I doubt anyone wants to touch that.  Male or female.


Stop. Hammertime.


----------



## White Orchid

V0N1B2 said:


> Stop. Hammertime.


You're giving away your age Missy


----------



## White Orchid

cdtracing said:


> Really should get that thumbnail looked at by a professional.  Nail fungus can be cured.  Looks pretty silly with polish on all the other fingers & that thumb is bare.


Stands out like a sore thumb eh?


----------



## White Orchid

How is it possible to be good looking *and funny, I don't know...


----------



## Jayne1

Close up from the above photo.  This is a result of too many nose jobs, I think.

KrisJ also had a messed up nose at one time.  I found this in a google search, but it isn't as bad now, so I think it can be fixed with fillers, but I'm just guessing.

By the way, I always notice when a nose job is really crooked and these two aren't the only ones.  Charlize Theron has an odd shape nose when you look dead on. I think they try to go too small.

Anyway, I wonder if that is why CJ looks so unhappy at times. She may have trouble breathing.


----------



## V0N1B2

Close up?  You're not kidding. Yikes! What did I ever do to you, huh? 
I thought the nostrils looked really weird. Like they stuck a nose on Caitlyn's face and didn't build up the sides and bottom part of the nostril(s).
Dayum, the amount of Botox holding up her eyebrows tho.


----------



## V0N1B2

White Orchid said:


> How is it possible to be good looking *and funny, I don't know...


It's not that hard 
*hair flip*


----------



## Luvbolide

Sasha2012 said:


> Arriving at LAX after from Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Mail




Maybe it is me, but if I were touting myself as an LGBT activist, I would have stayed in DC a day longer and gone to the Womens' March.  But there is Jenner, always the privileged, white male at heart...


----------



## Rouge H

Oh my...looking quite freakish


----------



## mkr

Luvbolide said:


> Maybe it is me, but if I were touting myself as an LGBT activist, I would have stayed in DC a day longer and gone to the Womens' March.  But there is Jenner, always the privileged, white male at heart...


How do you pull off going to the inauguration AND the protest march?  Just askin'.


----------



## White Orchid

V0N1B2 said:


> It's not that hard
> *hair flip*


----------



## Luvbolide

mkr said:


> How do you pull off going to the inauguration AND the protest march?  Just askin'.




They were on two different days.  If you mean intellectually, I guess my snarky response is how do you vote for man who is hostile to you?   I could see attending the inauguration out of respect for the office though not necessarily the individual.

And I guess my real response is that for me, the choice would have been very clear!


----------



## Sasha2012

She won a gold medal in the 1976 Olympic games and must have followed a hearty diet during her athletic glory days.

And Caitlyn Jenner, 67, showed she still loved both sports and food as she tucked into a burger while sitting courtside at a UCLA basketball game on Saturday night.

The reality TV star looked glamorous in a nude leather jacket with matching slingback mules.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...cks-burger-basketball-game.html#ixzz4ZB0dt6N1


----------



## V0N1B2

She sits like such a lady


----------



## TC1

"looking glamorous"


----------



## chowlover2

V0N1B2 said:


> She sits like such a lady


 She doesn't even try to be feminine...


----------



## cdtracing

I still want to know why the thumb on her/his right hand never has polish on it.  Just weird to have 4 fingers manicured & the thumb is not.


----------



## uhpharm01

cdtracing said:


> I still want to know why the thumb on her/his right hand never has polish on it.  Just weird to have 4 fingers manicured & the thumb is not.


maybe there is something wrong with that thumb which is why it's never painted.


----------



## Hobbsy

She/he does not look well, like unhealthy.


----------



## uhpharm01

V0N1B2 said:


> She sits like such a lady


 LMAO


----------



## horse17

She reminds me so much of Cindy Crawford....


----------



## beastofthefields

Sasha2012 said:


> Inauguration in Washington DC
> 
> I'm not being funny, but she still sounds and looks manly - she's gone through SO much but really it doesnt show - she could have remained the same and just worn womens clothes instead of going through all the surgeries - coz i still see a man!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daily Mail


----------



## beastofthefields

Jayne1 said:


> Her mouth is drooping and with her eyes closed, she looks like she passed out.
> 
> From her Instagram:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3565445


looks like she's had a stroke.......................


----------



## lucifers

horse17 said:


> She reminds me so much of Cindy Crawford....


Most times I see Caitlyn, I see Cindy Crawford


----------



## beastofthefields

I've realised why she/he doesnt have the thumbnail painted - if you look at these photos he/she hides the thumb...until the last one....when you look at it - it looks like the nail is missing....... - freaky!



troubadour said:


> She was honoured last year to recognize her work in raising LGTQ awareness.
> 
> And Caitlyn Jenner looked in fine form as she arrived to the Glamour Women of the Year Awards on Monday night in Hollywood.
> 
> The 67-year-old looked to be in a thoughtful mood as she posed on the arrivals carpet in an eye catching gown.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...wards-honoured-year-before.html#ixzz4Q6feHH5j
> View attachment 3522002
> View attachment 3522003
> View attachment 3522004
> View attachment 3522005


----------



## beastofthefields

Sasha2012 said:


> Caityln Jenner and best friend Candis Cayne stepped out for an evening to honour the Orlando victims.
> 
> The I Am Cait stars showed their support of those affected by the June mass shooting by attending the onePULSE: A Benefit For Orlando.
> 
> The event, which took place at NeueHouse Hollywood on Friday, was attended by a slew of celebrity talent.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ndis-Cayne-Orlando-benefit.html#ixzz4Hqox1YCO


A 'slew of celebrity talent'?  Where? I don't see Brad Pitt or Amy Adams there (for instance)


----------



## kemilia

Hobbsy said:


> She/he does not look well, like unhealthy.


I was just going to comment that Jenner is not looking good, maybe too much makeup over skin that has seen too much sun over the years. And the naked nail--what the heck is up with that?


----------



## kemilia

beastofthefields said:


> I've realised why she/he doesnt have the thumbnail painted - if you look at these photos he/she hides the thumb...until the last one....when you look at it - it looks like the nail is missing....... - freaky!


I think I've seen better pics of Jenner's hands and the nail looked fine, and definitely not missing.


----------



## horse17

lucifers said:


> Most times I see Caitlyn, I see Cindy Crawford


I know..I really don't know why.....but poor cindy!...maybe its the hair...she should change it up..


----------



## sdkitty

Sasha2012 said:


> She won a gold medal in the 1976 Olympic games and must have followed a hearty diet during her athletic glory days.
> 
> And Caitlyn Jenner, 67, showed she still loved both sports and food as she tucked into a burger while sitting courtside at a UCLA basketball game on Saturday night.
> 
> The reality TV star looked glamorous in a nude leather jacket with matching slingback mules.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...cks-burger-basketball-game.html#ixzz4ZB0dt6N1


oh yeah, really glamorous sitting there with legs spread


----------



## Luvbolide

V0N1B2 said:


> She sits like such a lady



Doesn't she?!?  And shoving a burger into one's face is always a glamorous look!!


----------



## V0N1B2

If the saying about certain older women goes: "mutton dressed as lamb", is Caitlyn "ram dressed as lamb"?


----------



## Grace123

V0N1B2 said:


> If the saying about certain older women goes: "mutton dressed as lamb", is Caitlyn "ram dressed as lamb"?



LOVE your avatar.  As for this person? No words. IMO, belongs in jail.


----------



## rockhollow

The headline from Daily Fail:
*Night out! Caitlyn Jenner stuns in black mini dress as she joins BFF Candis Cayne for Orlando benefit.


*
 Yes, I am stunned - that man paw!


----------



## DC-Cutie

Chile... ya'll them Kitten Heels are SCREAMING to be freed!


----------



## Lounorada

horse17 said:


> She reminds me so much of Cindy Crawford....


Now that you mention it... 100% 

Zimbio


----------



## DC-Cutie

Cindy should have NEVER messed with her face..  I mean I know she's telling the masses, it's that Meaningful Beauty cream and crap, but keep it real....


----------



## mrs moulds

Luvbolide said:


> Maybe it is me, but if I were touting myself as an LGBT activist, I would have stayed in DC a day longer and gone to the Womens' March.  But there is Jenner, always the privileged, white male at heart...



Oh My [emoji15]


----------



## berrydiva

horse17 said:


> She reminds me so much of Cindy Crawford....





Lounorada said:


> Now that you mention it... 100%
> 
> Zimbio
> View attachment 3612432


Noooo!  Now this connection is fixed in my brain.


----------



## Irishgal

DC-Cutie said:


> Cindy should have NEVER messed with her face..  I mean I know she's telling the masses, it's that Meaningful Beauty cream and crap, but keep it real....



What did she do? Obviously something but what. And why? Ugh


----------



## horse17

That's a really unflattering picture of Cindy but it is what she looks like her eyes are funky


----------



## Luvbolide

Ugh - she is such a tacky dresser.  She is waaaaaaaaay too old to be wearing such short skirts.  Too bad she doesn't take a page from the book of the gal in the flowered dress!




rockhollow said:


> The headline from Daily Fail:
> *Night out! Caitlyn Jenner stuns in black mini dress as she joins BFF Candis Cayne for Orlando benefit.
> 
> View attachment 3612358
> *
> Yes, I am stunned - that man paw!




Totally agree - looks like she is palming a basketball.  And those knees....nooooooooo......


----------



## Florasun

DC-Cutie said:


> Chile... ya'll them Kitten Heels are SCREAMING to be freed!


Ha ha  cruelty to animals.


----------



## Jayne1

Irishgal said:


> What did she do? Obviously something but what. And why? Ugh


Everything.  Face lift and eyes-- upper and lower.  Plus filers and new veneers. It must be so hard to show signs of aging in Hollywood.

She certainly didn't resemble Jenner when young, I guess when they got the exact same surgical procedures, they started to look similar.


----------



## V0N1B2

rockhollow said:


> The headline from Daily Fail:
> *Night out! Caitlyn Jenner stuns in black mini dress as she joins BFF Candis Cayne for Orlando benefit.
> 
> View attachment 3612358
> *
> Yes, I am stunned - that man paw!


Jenner looks, meh... nothing spectacular. I like the black and white striped maxi dress on the woman on the right. It probably would have looked great on Caitlyn. 
 Candis is giving me Ivanka ***** vibes.


----------



## arnott

Lounorada said:


> Now that you mention it... 100%
> 
> Zimbio
> View attachment 3612432



Cindy sure didn't age well.             Hard to believe she is only 3 years older than Jennifer Lopez.   Cindy is giving me Janice Dickinson vibes in that picture.


----------



## buzzytoes

Grace123 said:


> LOVE your avatar.  As for this person? No words. IMO, belongs in jail.


Seriously?! Then why are you even in this thread. God forbid any friend or family ever comes to you feeling like they can't find their place in the world they were born into.


----------



## V0N1B2

buzzytoes said:


> Seriously?! Then why are you even in this thread. God forbid any friend or family ever comes to you feeling like they can't find their place in the world they were born into.


I think she was talking about the car accident in which someone died.


----------



## buzzytoes

V0N1B2 said:


> I think she was talking about the car accident in which someone died.


If that is the case I apologize. Since she only seems to refer to Caitlyn as "this person" my first thought does not go to the car crash.


----------



## Materielgrrl

which thread is this?  I'm getting confused.....


----------



## Grace123

buzzytoes said:


> If that is the case I apologize. Since she only seems to refer to Caitlyn as "this person" my first thought does not go to the car crash.


 I could've referred to Jenner as a LOT worse things than that person. I at least gave credit for humanity, even though I wonder.

And yes, IMO, this person is just another rich celebrity who got away with murder. Take it or leave it, no matter to me.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

DC-Cutie said:


> Cindy should have NEVER messed with her face..  I mean I know she's telling the masses, it's that Meaningful Beauty cream and crap, but keep it real....



Cindy used to be so beautiful in the early 90s, she looked stunning. Her face, hair, body, everything was on point.


----------



## buzzytoes

Grace123 said:


> I could've referred to Jenner as a LOT worse things than that person. I at least gave credit for humanity, even though I wonder.
> 
> And yes, IMO, this person is just another rich celebrity who got away with murder. Take it or leave it, no matter to me.



That didn't really clarify anything other than the jail part but okay.


----------



## Grace123

buzzytoes said:


> That didn't really clarify anything other than the jail part but okay.



Well your attack on what I posted didn't make any sense to me either so I guess we're even.


----------



## berrydiva




----------



## Florasun




----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner got glammed up Sunday for the annual Elton John benefit Oscars party.

The 67-year-old reality star donned a long short-sleeved Rachel Gilbert gown with plunging neckline for the viewing party in West Hollywood, California.

Caitlyn took to Instagram before the annual party benefiting the AIDS Foundation to share her outfit.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...e-Elton-John-s-Oscars-bash.html#ixzz4ZqwQigja


----------



## Florasun

She looks good here. But I can't with those feet.


----------



## Pinkpeony123

Florasun said:


> She looks good here. But I can't with those feet.



I was posting the exact same comment when I saw yours. Those size 14 feet are throwing things off...lol

A little smile every now and then would help a lot.


----------



## Sasha2012

Zimbio


----------



## rockhollow

Usually Candis looks more feminine, but this photo is not flattening to either of them.
They look like they should be with the Vanderpump boys in drag out in New Orleans.


----------



## Docjeun

They all look like men to me.


----------



## mkr

I think Bruce is phoning it in.  He's not even trying to look like a woman.  He's a cross dresser.


----------



## chowlover2

mkr said:


> I think Bruce is phoning it in.  He's not even trying to look like a woman.  He's a cross dresser.


Agreed! He doesn't even try. Look at the way he carries a handbag, like he's carrying a bag of rocks.


----------



## PurseCrazyGal

rockhollow said:


> Usually Candis looks more feminine, but this photo is not flattening to either of them.
> They look like they should be with the Vanderpump boys in drag out in New Orleans.
> 
> View attachment 3618353



Who is the other on the left?


----------



## chowlover2

PurseCrazyGal said:


> Who is the other on the left?


That's Candace Cayne.


----------



## PurseCrazyGal

chowlover2 said:


> That's Candace Cayne.



Thanks. Never heard the name.


----------



## Jayne1

I think Cait is very, very pleased with herself.


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> I think Cait is very, very pleased with herself.


I think she is quite smitten with Candace.


----------



## rockhollow

Caitlyn seems very interested in Candace on his show 'I am Cait', but it seemed like Candace seemed like she was keeping her distance - she kept clearly stating she like men (and men that looked like men).


----------



## redney

Kendull looks like Caitlyn.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner looked stunning at the annual Elton John Oscar party on Sunday.

But the 67-year-old reality star from Keeping Up With The Kardashians was not alone.

The ex of Kris Jenner took as her date transgender model Andreja Pejić. And now it is being reported the two may be more than just friends.

Andreja, 25, took a photo with Jessica Alba. 'Me on the floor and I think my teenage self is still in comatose,' the blonde wrote.

Caitlyn and the model met in November 2015 at the Glamour Women of the Year awards in NYC.

'Finally had the pleasure of meeting this amazing woman,' Andreja wrote on Instagram at the time.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Oscar-date-Andreja-Peji-25.html#ixzz4a8gwL92q


----------



## redney

Oh stop it.


----------



## Grace123




----------



## mkr

Did he mean for his hair to look like that?  It kinda looks like what happens to mine when I straighten it and the humidity level goes up.


----------



## Esizzle

Not a flattering dress at all and it's too short. She needs a proper manicure before these events.


----------



## Docjeun

I just can't with any of his stuff.


----------



## Esizzle

Wait I have a question. Do we refer to Caitlyn as he or she? Is the transition not complete since the male apparatus is still attached?


----------



## Docjeun

I think it's a HE although I don't understand, anyone?


----------



## cdtracing

I still think Caitlyn looks like a dude in a dress.  Nothing feminine about him.


----------



## berrydiva

While I know/understand, from experience with friends, you can't rush someone's transition....they have to get there on their own buuttttt there's something about Caitlyn that makes me feel that Bruce will never fully transition. We're not owed an announcement when it happens but I just don't see it happening.


----------



## cdtracing

berrydiva said:


> While I know/understand, from experience with friends, you can't rush someone's transition....they have to get there on their own buuttttt there's something about Caitlyn that makes me feel that Bruce will never fully transition. We're not owed an announcement when it happens but I just don't see it happening.



I agree.  When someone transitions, it has to be in their time but I don't think Bruce will ever fully  commit.  He already makes no effort to feminize himself.  Getting boobs, hair extenstions, wearing make up & dresses does not make one feminine.  I know drag queens who are more feminine than Bruce.


----------



## mkr

He's not gay so he probably wants to keep his junk.


----------



## V0N1B2

mkr said:


> *He's not gay* so he probably wants to keep his junk.


I'm not sure about that.


----------



## mkr

V0N1B2 said:


> I'm not sure about that.


Do you have tea because I have popeyes.


----------



## V0N1B2

mkr said:


> Do you have tea because I have popeyes.


You kill me 
Ain't gots the receipts or nuthin' but I do think Bruce Jenner was a gay man.
Just my personal opinion.


----------



## LLC

Trulyadiva said:


> I just can't with any of his stuff.



X1000.


----------



## mkr

I'm not feelinit.  He's not necessarily masculine or feminine.  Any reason for thinking he's gay?


----------



## Deco

Asexual comes to mind.  Not into getting it on with anyone.


----------



## mkr

[/QUOTE] Not into getting it on with anyone.[/QUOTE]
Him or you?


----------



## White Orchid

V0N1B2 said:


> You kill me
> Ain't gots the receipts or nuthin' but I do think Bruce Jenner was a gay man.
> Just my personal opinion.


OK, I'll play.

Say you're right and he's been gay all along, how did he manage to impregnate all this wives?  My quandary or conundrum, is, he would've *had* to have been aroused to have an erection.  So in order to be aroused, he would've had to have been attracted to his wife/wives, no?  I mean I've heard gay men say that they're not turned on by women at all, sooooo...

*grabs some popcorn and waits.  Over to you Dr Ruth*


----------



## mkr

He could be bi.  But I never got that impression.


----------



## V0N1B2

White Orchid said:


> OK, I'll play.
> 
> Say you're right and he's been gay all along, how did he manage to impregnate all this wives?  My quandary or conundrum, is, he would've *had* to have been aroused to have an erection.  So in order to be aroused, he would've had to have been attracted to his wife/wives, no?  I mean I've heard gay men say that they're not turned on by women at all, sooooo...
> 
> *grabs some popcorn and waits.  Over to you Dr Ruth*


Well the easy answer is, he put his penis in their vagina.
There are hundreds of thousands of men who were married and had children, who later came out of the closet.
This isn't some fringe concept. It's been happening for hundreds of years.
Bruce Jenner was lauded as an American Hero! Sports Star! Olympian! You think someone revered for their masculinity is gonna come out in the 70s? LOL
That's pretty much all I'm going to say about *MY PERSONAL OPINION.*
People call Kanye gay all the time in his thread yet no one asks for clarification as to how he fathered two children.


----------



## White Orchid

V0N1B2 said:


> Well the easy answer is, he put his penis in their vagina.


Um, I figured that much out


----------



## mkr

If he was gay I'd think there were rumors.  I don't follow him to have heard any so I can't say there aren't any.  I just think he's a cross dresser.


----------



## cdtracing

I know there were rumors of him liking to dress in women's clothes going back to when he was married to his first wife but never heard anything about him being gay. I think he's still just a cross dresser & probably isn't truly committed to the whole sex change thing.


----------



## berrydiva

V0N1B2 said:


> I'm not sure about that.


I feel the same.


----------



## Docjeun

White Orchid said:


> OK, I'll play.
> 
> Say you're right and he's been gay all along, how did he manage to impregnate all this wives?  My quandary or conundrum, is, he would've *had* to have been aroused to have an erection.  So in order to be aroused, he would've had to have been attracted to his wife/wives, no?  I mean I've heard gay men say that they're not turned on by women at all, sooooo...
> 
> *grabs some popcorn and waits.  Over to you Dr Ruth*


----------



## guccimamma

the strangest collection of men in this family....i don't even know how you go about locating such an assortment.


----------



## Docjeun

V0N1B2 said:


> Well the easy answer is, he put his penis in their vagina.
> There are hundreds of thousands of men who were married and had children, who later came out of the closet.
> This isn't some fringe concept. It's been happening for hundreds of years.
> Bruce Jenner was lauded as an American Hero! Sports Star! Olympian! You think someone revered for their masculinity is gonna come out in the 70s? LOL
> That's pretty much all I'm going to say about *MY PERSONAL OPINION.*
> People call Kanye gay all the time in his thread yet no one asks for clarification as to how he fathered two children.


----------



## Docjeun

V0N1B2 said:


> Well the easy answer is, he put his penis in their vagina.
> There are hundreds of thousands of men who were married and had children, who later came out of the closet.
> This isn't some fringe concept. It's been happening for hundreds of years.
> Bruce Jenner was lauded as an American Hero! Sports Star! Olympian! You think someone revered for their masculinity is gonna come out in the 70s? LOL
> That's pretty much all I'm going to say about *MY PERSONAL OPINION.*
> People call Kanye gay all the time in his thread yet no one asks for clarification as to how he fathered two children.


All this......


----------



## Docjeun

V0N1B2 said:


> Well the easy answer is, he put his penis in their vagina.
> There are hundreds of thousands of men who were married and had children, who later came out of the closet.
> This isn't some fringe concept. It's been happening for hundreds of years.
> Bruce Jenner was lauded as an American Hero! Sports Star! Olympian! You think someone revered for their masculinity is gonna come out in the 70s? LOL
> That's pretty much all I'm going to say about *MY PERSONAL OPINION.*
> People call Kanye gay all the time in his thread yet no one asks for clarification as to how he fathered two children.


\\

This....


----------



## guccimamma

i think bruce is deeply confused. he seemed happier golfing and flying remote control planes....

frankly when he announced his desire to be a woman, or dress like one...i envisioned a sportier-looking woman.  caitlyn just seems a mess, even her name is that of a 12 year old girl.  cate would be better.


----------



## gillianna

Bruce was miserable looking when married to kris and now looks even more unhappy as Caitlyn.  What does he have from life-a daily pap walk for his coffee drinks.  He/she seems desperate for fame as much as the Kklan.  But as an aging not very attractive person who does not seem to embrace being a woman from pictures unless it is for a photo op his life really hasn't changed.  Still  unhappy and bitter looking.


----------



## cdtracing

gillianna said:


> Bruce was miserable looking when married to kris and now looks even more unhappy as Caitlyn.  What does he have from life-a daily pap walk for his coffee drinks.  He/she seems desperate for fame as much as the Kklan.  But as an aging not very attractive person who does not seem to embrace being a woman from pictures unless it is for a photo op his life really hasn't changed.  Still  unhappy and bitter looking.


----------



## guccimamma

wouldn't you feel ripped off if you paid thousands for one of his corporate motivational speeches?


----------



## Docjeun

guccimamma said:


> wouldn't you feel ripped off if you paid thousands for one of his corporate motivational speeches?


----------



## Docjeun




----------



## rockhollow

guccimamma said:


> i think bruce is deeply confused. he seemed happier golfing and flying remote control planes....
> 
> frankly when he announced his desire to be a woman, or dress like one...i envisioned a sportier-looking woman.  caitlyn just seems a mess, even her name is that of a 12 year old girl.  cate would be better.




yes, I thought she'd look and be Mrs. Sport.  
Bruce was always complaining on KUWK, that he had no time for his activities. Now as Cait, you'd think she'd be doing them all those things X 10.
We've commented before that he doesn't even seem to play golf as Cait, something he was obsessed with as Bruce.
I don't think he buddies with the remote helicopter guys took too well to Caitlyn, so that might have hindered that activity. 
And on one episode of KUWK, Kendall was saying that she missed doing lots of sporty things, as Caitlyn wasn't doing them (car racing and ATW's I think). Maybe she was also not feeling comfortable with people she used to hang out with while doing these.



I wonder if Bruce doesn't like his feminine body as much as his Bruce body?


----------



## Chloe_chick999

Does he even hang out with, or has been seen with his sons?


----------



## mkr

It's possible he does a lot of things.  Maybe he just doesn't call the paps like the rest of the K's.


----------



## VickyB

I'm watching a 1985 Murder She Wrote and it's the one where Bruce Jenner plays a football player.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

VickyB said:


> I'm watching a 1985 Murder She Wrote and it's the one where Bruce Jenner plays a football player.



And?  He was in quite as few roles. He was very much the all-American athlete/golden boy in his day.


----------



## Sasha2012

It is not easy to steal attention away from a powerful sports car.

But stunning Caitlyn Jenner did just that as she stepped out of her purple Porsche in a thrilling cardigan and trousers combo in Malibu on Monday.

All eyes were on the reality television personality as she arrived for a meal at a posh eatery located in the California celebrity enclave with a female friend.

Meanwhile it seems her new book The Secret Of My Life will cause some tension with ex-wife Kris Jenner.

In the tell-all - which will be released on April 25 - the former Olympian accuses the self-styled 'momager' of 'pushing Bruce in the closet,' a source has told UsWeekly. It was added that the 67-year-old Caitlyn was asked to 'suppress her true self.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Jenner-dines-female-friend.html#ixzz4c0vyFF5a


----------



## Rouge H

The "Stunning" .....who writes this shiat??????


----------



## V0N1B2

Funny how those candids look *nothing *like the book cover. 

The outfit is better than her usual too-short skirts. The pumps are a better look than those awful open toe sandals she's so fond of (I would have gone with a 70mm Manolo BB, but that's just me).  I like the skinny ankle jean (?) on her. Looks like she sort of upped her purse game - is that a MaxMara Whitney bag?
I hate her down-turned mouth. It's awful. Get some tox in there and lift the corners up, not to joker territory, just to pleasant smile territory. It's what makes her look so miserable all the time.

After trying out a new driver at the shop yesterday, I think I realized why she doesn't have a faux nail on that thumb. Caitlyn is left handed and I wonder if her grip and swing is responsible for that. I know if my thumbnail is too long, it digs into the back of the thumb on my other hand. Actually, I don't know how she golfs with those nails, TBH.
Just my theory.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Rouge H said:


> The "Stunning" .....who writes this shiat??????



And this, "a thrilling cardigan and trousers combo"


----------



## DesigningStyle

Babydoll Chanel said:


> And this, "a thrilling cardigan and trousers combo"



She is wearing Nordstrom's Barefoot Dreams cardigan.  I have a few of those.  So soft and snugly!  I highly recommend.


----------



## Jayne1

V0N1B2 said:


> After trying out a new driver at the shop yesterday, I think I realized why she doesn't have a faux nail on that thumb. Caitlyn is left handed and I wonder if her grip and swing is responsible for that. I know if my thumbnail is too long, it digs into the back of the thumb on my other hand. Actually, I don't know how she golfs with those nails, TBH.
> Just my theory.


That makes sense -- but still no nail polish just to make the thumb less noticeable?


----------



## V0N1B2

Jayne1 said:


> That makes sense -- but still no nail polish just to make the thumb less noticeable?


Yeah, you would think that she would at least paint the thumb even if the nail is shorter. I thought someone here mentioned that Caitlyn may not have a nail (or much of one) on that thumb, so I guess that could be a reason why as well.


----------



## Sasha2012

She is known for her effortlessly elegant style.

But stunning Caitlyn Jenner made a rare fashion misstep when her sheer top put her lingerie on display as she enjoyed a night out in Malibu on Wednesday.

All eyes were on the reality television personality as she unwittingly gave a more than generous glimpse of her ample bust as she left a posh eatery in the California celebrity enclave.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...drobe-malfunction-lingerie.html#ixzz4cCfgW0zR


----------



## White Orchid

I can think of quite a few women who look "effortlessly elegant" - Bruce ain't one of them.


----------



## gillianna

There is nothing feminine or elegant about Bruce trying to look like a woman.  It all seems so fake like he is very uncomfortable being Caitlyn.  He carries his purse like a football.


----------



## cdtracing

"Stunning"..."Thrilling"...."All eyes on"....?  Who comes up with this BS.  And what's with the crazy facial expressions?????  He/she looks crazed!!  And whoever is photoshopping Khlogore's pics must have photoshopped that book cover.  That looks nothing like him/her!!!


----------



## dangerouscurves

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]  I can't with this thread and y'all.


----------



## Grace123

I think this is what they call "Fake News."


----------



## Luvbolide

Babydoll Chanel said:


> And this, "a thrilling cardigan and trousers combo"




That line made me LOL - I have never seen a thrilling cardigan, but if such a thing existed, I doubt that it would fit her like a grey potato sack.  The sweater style is fine, but it looks so "off" on her.  She clearly hasn't the faintest clue what tasteful clothing that fits looks like.   One would think that she would have a clue if she has been fascinated by women's clothing since the 1970s!!


----------



## Luvbolide

cdtracing said:


> "Stunning"..."Thrilling"...."All eyes on"....?  Who comes up with this BS.  And what's with the crazy facial expressions?????  He/she looks crazed!!  And whoever is photoshopping Khlogore's pics must have photoshopped that book cover.  That looks nothing like him/her!!!




Whoever writes this drivel must be smoking crack on the job.  Jenner is never elegant or effortless.  I am not sure if I have seen as many as 5 pics showing a tasteful outfit, not to mention one that fits properly.

That orange top is unflattering and she looks like a lunatic with those eyes.

Time for Daily Fail to move on we don't need to see these pics on a constant basis...Jenner should just fade quietly back....


----------



## VickyB

Rouge H said:


> The "Stunning" .....who writes this shiat??????



I thought the same thing "stunning Caitlyn Jenner"!!!!!! WTF. Was this a Daily Fail article.


----------



## VickyB

V0N1B2 said:


> Funny how those candids look *nothing *like the book cover.
> 
> The outfit is better than her usual too-short skirts. The pumps are a better look than those awful open toe sandals she's so fond of (I would have gone with a 70mm Manolo BB, but that's just me).  I like the skinny ankle jean (?) on her. Looks like she sort of upped her purse game - is that a MaxMara Whitney bag?
> I hate her down-turned mouth. It's awful. Get some tox in there and lift the corners up, not to joker territory, just to pleasant smile territory. It's what makes her look so miserable all the time.
> 
> After trying out a new driver at the shop yesterday, I think I realized why she doesn't have a faux nail on that thumb. Caitlyn is left handed and I wonder if her grip and swing is responsible for that. I know if my thumbnail is too long, it digs into the back of the thumb on my other hand. Actually, I don't know how she golfs with those nails, TBH.
> Just my theory.



Agreed. Yet, she still dresses better then the K klan.


----------



## Sasha2012

Paris Jackson was seen hanging out with Vogue model Kendall Jenner earlier this month.

But on Saturday evening it was all about Caitlyn Jenner as the two posed at the 28th Annual GLAAD Media Awards.

While the daughter of Michael Jackson stood out in a peacock-inspired caped creation, the I Am Cait played it safe in basic black.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...spends-time-Caitlyn-Jenner.html#ixzz4d7y7s100


----------



## Luvbolide

Woah - I actually like this dress - maybe because I can barely see it in the dark photos!  Looks like she has bare legs - uh oh, Caitlyn, looks like someone has taken a few swings with a golf club to your legs.  They are really ugly so at least keep your ugly knees covered.

Is it me, or is her face  getting more and more masculine as time passes.  Between that and the very mannish voice that she refuses to try to do anything about, I am thinking the $3 mill on surgeries was an epic fail...


----------



## lovely

WHY is her thumbnail always missing?!?!?! I know it's small fries compared to the rest of her but it bugs me!!


----------



## redney

lovely said:


> WHY is her thumbnail always missing?!?!?! I know it's small fries compared to the rest of her but it bugs me!!


Something to do with her golf swing.


----------



## Sasha2012

redney said:


> Something to do with her golf swing.


He can at least still paint it the same color as the rest to make it less obvious.


----------



## Jayne1

Sasha2012 said:


> He can at least still paint it the same color as the rest to make it less obvious.


That's what I say.  

I'm thinking she wants people to notice that she could paint her thumbnail, but doesn't because of golf or something. She wants people to notice.


----------



## chowlover2

In the first pic with Paris the thumb doesn't appear to have anything wrong with it, just shorter. At least we don't hear too much about her anymore.


----------



## mkr

Her hair looks better here.  Not a whole lot but better.


----------



## Luvbolide

lovely said:


> WHY is her thumbnail always missing?!?!?! I know it's small fries compared to the rest of her but it bugs me!!



It drives me nuts, too!  If she can't wear polish on it, she could at least have short nails with pale polish so that it isn't do obvious!  If my hands looked like that, i wouldn't call attention to them.  Hot mess...


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

"the I Am Cait played it safe in basic black." ???


----------



## kemilia

Luvbolide said:


> Woah - I actually like this dress - maybe because I can barely see it in the dark photos!  Looks like she has bare legs - uh oh, Caitlyn, looks like someone has taken a few swings with a golf club to your legs.  They are really ugly so at least keep your ugly knees covered.
> 
> Is it me, or is her *face  getting more and more masculine *as time passes.  Between that and the very mannish voice that she refuses to try to do anything about, I am thinking the $3 mill on surgeries was an epic fail...


I was thinking this very thing! Something has changed, the eyebrows seem thicker, maybe that's what's doing it.


----------



## cdtracing

The dress is nice & not a bad choice.  I don't know but I still just see a dude in drag every time I see Bruce.  Aside from wearing makeup, nail polish, high heels, carrying a purse, & having his hair styled, he has done nothing to feminize himself or embrace being a woman.  He still has a masculine walk, masculine voice, & masculine mannerisms.  For someone who has supposedly been obsessed with women's clothes & thinking they're a woman for decades, you would think they would make the effort to become what they claim to be.  SMDH


----------



## bagnutt

mkr said:


> Her hair looks better here.  Not a whole lot but better.



Cait must wear a wig? Bruce's hair was SO thin when he filmed the special with Diane Sawyer. I can never tell whether it's a wig, extensions, or other.


----------



## VickyB

Hair looks much better. ACK,,,,,,those hands!!!!!!!


----------



## mistikat

*Caitlyn Jenner reveals she HAS now undergone gender reassignment surgery because she was 'tired of tucking the damn thing in all the time'*

*Caitlyn Jenner writes in her new memoir that she underwent gender reassignment surgery in January of this year *
*'I just want to have all the right parts. I am also tired of tucking the damn thing in all the time,' writes Jenner of making the decision *

PUBLISHED: 12:53 EDT, 10 April 2017 | UPDATED: 13:21 EDT, 10 April 2017
Caitlyn Jenner reveals in her upcoming memoir that she underwent gender reassignment surgery in January of this year, almost two years after she revealed her decision to transition.

That reveal was the result of Jenner being annoyed by fans who were constantly asking about her genitals and whether or not she had kept the parts she was biologically born with or had surgery, she writes in 'The Secrets of My Life.'

'The surgery was a success, and I feel not only wonderful but liberated,' writes Jenner in her book according to Radar Online. 
She also explains her decision had much to do with the discomfort that came with tucking away her penis.






+2
Changes: Caitlyn Jenner writes in her new memoir that she underwent gender reassignment surgery in January of this year (Jenner above in November 2015)

'So why even consider it? Because it’s just a penis. It has no special gifts or use for me other tan what I have said before, the ability to take a whiz in the woods,' writes Jenner. 

'I just want to have all the right parts. I am also tired of tucking the damn thing in all the time.'
Jenner also writes about how good she felt after the surgery.

'I am going to live authentically for the first time in my life,' she writes of her thoughts after undergoing the procedure.
'I am going to have an enthusiasm for life that I have not had in 39 years since the Olympics, almost two thirds of my life.'
News of Jenner's surgery will be perhaps the biggest surprise in her new memoir, which netted her a $4million advance.
It is due to hit bookshelves on April 25. 

Jenner publicly revealed she had transitioned in a 20/20 interview back in April of 2015 with Diane Sawyer, telling the veteran newscaster: 'For all intents and purposes, I am a woman.'

She went on to say in that interview: 'My brain is much more female than it is male. That's what my soul is. Bruce lives a lie. She is not a lie. I can't do it anymore.' 

That June, Jenner appeared on the cover of 'Vanity Fair' wearing a white satin bustier with the words: 'I Am Caitlyn.' 
She said in the accompanying interview that shooting the cover of the magazine was better than winning an Olympic gold medal. 

'The last few days of doing this shoot was about my life and who I am as a person,' said Caitlyn. 

'It's not about the fanfare, it's not about the people cheering in the stadium, its not about going down the street getting an ''Atta boy Bruce" pat on the back, okay, this is about your life. 'Soon as the Vanity Fair cover comes out, I'm free.'

Later that day Jenner created a Twitter account, writing in her first tweet; 'I’m so happy after such a long struggle to be living my true self. Welcome to the world Caitlyn. Can’t wait for you to get to know her/me.' 

It was also announced around this time that Jenner would begin appearing in the E! reality show I Am Cait, which debuted one month later in July and was recently cancelled after two seasons.

And that hat busy summer was capped of with her official name and gender change in September.


Read more: Caitlyn Jenner underwent gender reassignment surgery | Daily Mail Online


----------



## redney

Still trying to stay in the spotlight, eh Caitlyn?


----------



## guccimamma

well i guess my theory of going back to bruce was way off.


----------



## cdtracing

Well...is he/she now going to make an effort to becoming more feminine now that Caitlyn has the "right" parts???


----------



## VickyB

guccimamma said:


> well i guess my theory of going back to bruce was way off.


LMAO


----------



## Sasha2012

As news broke that she made the decision to finalize her transition into a women surgically, this  star treated Monday like any other day.

Caitlyn Jenner went on her usual coffee run in Malibu, California, as the rest of the world learnt her exciting news.

An early sneak peek of the 67-year-old memoir, The Secrets of My Life, the Olympian revealed she has undergone full gender reassignment.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ender-reassignment-surgery.html#ixzz4dtobbNvu


----------



## White Orchid

Are those extensions or a bald patch or both???


----------



## sdkitty

cdtracing said:


> Well...is he/she now going to make an effort to becoming more feminine now that Caitlyn has the "right" parts???


I imagine she has been trying, just not succeeding


----------



## berrydiva

I can't even pay attention to Caitlyn....I'm upset at those Michelin tires on that GT3rs...smh.


----------



## Luvbolide

This story is waaaaaaay more info than I needed to know.  Sounds like a desperate attempt to get some attention...again.

Well, Csit, hate to say it (not), but I couldn't care less what your parts are or are not.  And PS - ladies don't blast such things to the worldwide press.

And while we are at it, what were you thinking that car in such a ridiculous color - you are not a Laker.


----------



## TC1

cdtracing said:


> Well...is he/she now going to make an effort to becoming more feminine now that Caitlyn has the "right" parts???


You mean it's not very feminine to talk about "taking a whiz in the woods"?


----------



## Charles

berrydiva said:


> I can't even pay attention to Caitlyn....I'm upset at those Michelin tires on that GT3rs...smh.



Michelin Pilot Super Sport and Sport Cup (which are probably what are on that GT3) are a couple of the best tires on the market currently, the latter being the better of the two.  What are your suggestions?


----------



## gracekelly

He is still an XY and that will never change.  I have to admit, he did surprise me with this revelation as I never thought he would do it.


----------



## Luvbolide

gracekelly said:


> He is still and XY and that will never change.  I have to admit, he did surprise me with this revelation as I never thought he would do it.




Honestly, I didn't think so, either.


----------



## chowlover2

+3!


----------



## love_potion_9

Lol!!! This thread is hysterical

"The discomfort that came with tucking away her penis"

Lol!!! What a gem of a sentence


----------



## cdtracing

Maybe he's been reading this thread.  The article said he was annoyed by people (fans) always asking about his body parts.


----------



## Luvbolide

What fans?  Dream on, Cait!


----------



## sdkitty

funny, this has gone from wow, unbelievable that this olympic champion is wanting to be a woman - to strange but somehow not really that interesting.  It just seems he/she is seeking attention.  Did she really have to announce her surgery?  IDK maybe if she didn't someone else would.


----------



## Luvbolide

sdkitty said:


> funny, this has gone from wow, unbelievable that this olympic champion is wanting to be a woman - to strange but somehow not really that interesting.  It just seems he/she is seeking attention.  Did she really have to announce her surgery?  IDK maybe if she didn't someone else would.




I think this sudden urge to waaaay overshare is due to her efforts to promote her book.

The whole thing is really feeling like desperate efforts to somehow stay in the press.  Considering all she does is go to Starbucks, drive around LA in an attention getting car (even by LA standards), and golf, the whole thing is pathetic, IMO.

Try to be of some use to someone else, Cait.  Must be exhausting to think only of yourself 24/7.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Caitlyn is more of a famewhore than Bruce ever was. Keep your clothes on lady.


----------



## pukasonqo

http://www.alternet.org/lgbtq/ellen...-one-blame-her-tarnished-public-image-herself


----------



## Hobbsy

Congratulations Cait on the purchase of your new vagina!


----------



## V0N1B2

Hobbsy said:


> Congratulations Cait on the purchase of your new vagina!


  Is there a card for that do you think? Cake? Printed balloon bouquet?


----------



## TC1

Tonight's 20/20 is about Caitlyn..2 years after the announcement. "the most famous transgender person in the world" She's still just a tad self righteous folks.


----------



## Hobbsy

V0N1B2 said:


> [emoji38]  Is there a card for that do you think? Cake? Printed balloon bouquet?


Should be if there's not!


----------



## V0N1B2

Here ya go! I knew the interwebz would pull through.
Dearest Cait,


----------



## bag-princess

http://nypost.com/2017/04/25/caitlyn-jenner-kept-rudely-interrupting-kelly-rippa-on-live/


i can't stand kelly rippa so i would have just loooooved to have seen this!!!  
-----------------

It’s “Live with . . . Caitlyn!”

On Tuesday morning’s “Live with Kelly” show, Caitlyn Jenner was a guest — and possibly one of the rudest ever.

Jenner, who appeared to promote her memoir, “The Secrets of My Life,” continuously cut off Kelly Ripa and guest co-host, John Leguizamo.

At one point, Jenner even turned the tables on Ripa, asking when she first identified as a female.

“Just think about that,” she said, pointing her manicured finger at Ripa. “When did you know you were a girl?”

Jenner then made Leguizamo her target, asking him how he enjoyed dressing in drag in the 1995 comedy, “To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar.”

The painful 15-minute interview consisted of endless, self-congratulatory rants by Jenner, coupled with awkward attempts at interjection by Ripa and Leguizamo.

Perhaps the former sports star forgot that she was on a talk show — not giving one of her for-pay motivational speeches.

She didn’t even need Ripa to ask her any questions: Jenner played both guest and interviewer throughout the show.

“I’m actually very excited to be here,” Jenner said. “Why? Because today, the 25th of April . . . my book comes out and I don’t have a secret left in my life.”

Later, Jenner mused that she’s had a “lifetime of soul-searching. It’s all in the book.”

“Yes, I know,” Ripa responded.

Of course, Jenner wasn’t merely content being a guest on the morning show.

“I want to win the best-entrance contest at the end of the year,” Jenner immediately proclaimed upon sitting in her chair.

Later on in her interview, Jenner interrupted the hosts again to let them know she had been snubbed in the past — and wasn’t happy about it.

*“I have been around for 40 years, from the old ‘Regis and Kathie Lee’ — Kathie Lee’s [Gifford] the godmother to some of my children — and all this kind of stuff. I’ve watched your show for years, I’ve seen you go through all this stuff, and I’ve never been asked to co-host,” she complained.*

We have a feeling that invitation will never come.


----------



## sdkitty

bag-princess said:


> http://nypost.com/2017/04/25/caitlyn-jenner-kept-rudely-interrupting-kelly-rippa-on-live/
> 
> 
> i can't stand kelly rippa so i would have just loooooved to have seen this!!!
> -----------------
> 
> It’s “Live with . . . Caitlyn!”
> 
> On Tuesday morning’s “Live with Kelly” show, Caitlyn Jenner was a guest — and possibly one of the rudest ever.
> 
> Jenner, who appeared to promote her memoir, “The Secrets of My Life,” continuously cut off Kelly Ripa and guest co-host, John Leguizamo.
> 
> At one point, Jenner even turned the tables on Ripa, asking when she first identified as a female.
> 
> “Just think about that,” she said, pointing her manicured finger at Ripa. “When did you know you were a girl?”
> 
> Jenner then made Leguizamo her target, asking him how he enjoyed dressing in drag in the 1995 comedy, “To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar.”
> 
> The painful 15-minute interview consisted of endless, self-congratulatory rants by Jenner, coupled with awkward attempts at interjection by Ripa and Leguizamo.
> 
> Perhaps the former sports star forgot that she was on a talk show — not giving one of her for-pay motivational speeches.
> 
> She didn’t even need Ripa to ask her any questions: Jenner played both guest and interviewer throughout the show.
> 
> “I’m actually very excited to be here,” Jenner said. “Why? Because today, the 25th of April . . . my book comes out and I don’t have a secret left in my life.”
> 
> Later, Jenner mused that she’s had a “lifetime of soul-searching. It’s all in the book.”
> 
> “Yes, I know,” Ripa responded.
> 
> Of course, Jenner wasn’t merely content being a guest on the morning show.
> 
> “I want to win the best-entrance contest at the end of the year,” Jenner immediately proclaimed upon sitting in her chair.
> 
> Later on in her interview, Jenner interrupted the hosts again to let them know she had been snubbed in the past — and wasn’t happy about it.
> 
> *“I have been around for 40 years, from the old ‘Regis and Kathie Lee’ — Kathie Lee’s [Gifford] the godmother to some of my children — and all this kind of stuff. I’ve watched your show for years, I’ve seen you go through all this stuff, and I’ve never been asked to co-host,” she complained.*
> 
> We have a feeling that invitation will never come.


Maybe I'm tone deaf but I watched this and didn't really notice the rudeness.  What struck me more was she still seems more like a he.  And is full of herself.


----------



## mkr

Caitlyn does nothing to be a woman except put on a dress.  For all the wealth and privilege, he could look beautiful.  Instead he looks like the cheap tranny hookers I see on Saturdays down at the Strip District.

No offense to any cheap tranny hookers.


----------



## sdkitty

mkr said:


> Caitlyn does nothing to be a woman except put on a dress.  For all the wealth and privilege, he could look beautiful.  Instead he looks like the cheap tranny hookers I see on Saturdays down at the Strip District.
> 
> No offense to any cheap tranny hookers.


Not sure it's for lack of trying.  He's a big guy with a man's voice


----------



## Esizzle

He is trying to run for office now. Can't bear to not be a center of attention huh? He should spent his old years with dignity.


----------



## sdkitty

Esizzle said:


> He is trying to run for office now. Can't bear to not be a center of attention huh? He should spent his old years with dignity.


He/she needs a reality check.  You're not going to win an election with just LGBT votes.  I guess I could maybe see voting for her if the person she was running against was awful.


----------



## Esizzle

sdkitty said:


> He/she needs a reality check.  You're not going to win an election with just LGBT votes.  I guess I could maybe see voting for her if the person she was running against was awful.


I can't imagine voting for s/he ever. But then again I think cait will run in local elections in California and I don't live there. 

PS is she finally a she after gender reassigning surgery? Never know whether to address cait as he or she.


----------



## redney

sdkitty said:


> He/she needs a reality check.  You're not going to win an election with just LGBT votes.  I guess I could maybe see voting for her if the person she was running against was awful.


The way she's acted and continues to act, I don't even see her winning the LGBTQ votes.


----------



## uhpharm01

Esizzle said:


> I can't imagine voting for s/he ever. But then again I think cait will run in local elections in California and I don't live there.
> 
> PS is she finally a she after gender reassigning surgery? Never know whether to address cait as he or she.


Yes she did finally have the gender reassignment surgery.

ETA:

He/she has that just this pass Jan 2017.


----------



## Jayne1

Esizzle said:


> PS is she finally a she after gender reassigning surgery? Never know whether to address cait as he or she.


She got the she bit right a few years ago. By law or something, I  think she applied and it was granted. Something like that.


----------



## bag-princess

Esizzle said:


> He is trying to run for office now. Can't bear to not be a center of attention huh? He should spent his old years with dignity.



What office pray tell! [emoji15]


----------



## LadyLouboutin08

Caitlyn is still very much the privileged old man she used to be. It's very much apparent with every word that comes out of her mouth, smh.


----------



## Esizzle

bag-princess said:


> What office pray tell! [emoji15]


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/c...onsidering-running-for-office/article/2621319
She wants to run for office to help her "local community" and LGBT in general. Whatever office that is. LOL


----------



## Hobbsy

V0N1B2 said:


> Here ya go! I knew the interwebz would pull through.
> Dearest Cait,
> View attachment 3674837


[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## raffifi

sdkitty said:


> Not sure it's for lack of trying.  He's a big guy with a man's voice





uhpharm01 said:


> Yes she did finally have the gender reassignment surgery.
> 
> ETA:
> 
> He/she has that just this pass Jan 2017.





LadyLouboutin08 said:


> Caitlyn is still very much the privileged old man she used to be. It's very much apparent with every word that comes out of her mouth, smh.



She puts on make up and woman clothes and did some surgeries because she says she always felt like a woman. But she doesn't even try to work on her voice, posture or carry a bag the feminine way. To me she doesn't want to put any real effort in it.
And yes because she still is white, male and privileged, she is not in it with her whole heart (in my opinion)


----------



## poopsie

raffifi said:


> She puts on make up and woman clothes and did some surgeries because she says she always felt like a woman. But she doesn't even try to work on her voice, posture or carry a bag the feminine way. To me she doesn't want to put any real effort in it.
> And yes because she still is white, male and privileged, she is not in it with her whole heart (in my opinion)




What exactly _is_ the feminine way to carry a bag?
Not all females are feminine. I have a contralto singing voice, only wear makeup to work, love sports, and wanted to take shop instead of home ec in school. You will never EVER see me wear pink or anything cutesy poo. Maybe Bruce is my kind of gal.


----------



## raffifi

poopsie said:


> What exactly _is_ the feminine way to carry a bag?
> Not all females are feminine. I have a contralto singing voice, only wear makeup to work, love sports, and wanted to take shop instead of home ec in school. You will never EVER see me wear pink or anything cutesy poo. Maybe Bruce is my kind of gal.



I myself wear most of the time jeans, shirt and sneakers and my wardrobe is mostly black. And I grew up with two brothers and often myself can be boyish. But I don't carry my sometimes expensive handbags like my gym bag. I just wonder what else she has done except for the visual parts of becoming a woman. Because when I read or hear interviews, she often seems like she is still Bruce. I mean sure she is still Bruce because she was for so many years but she said she wasn't really herself as a man. And now that she is Caitlyn, she can finally be her real self but I don't think it's any different from Bruce. But I only know what we can read or hear about her. And maybe I would think differently if I knew her and could talk to her.

I'm sorry, english is not my first language and it's not always easy to write what I mean. I hope you understand what I'm am trying to say. And I didn't want to offend anyone with my post.


----------



## horse17

raffifi said:


> She puts on make up and woman clothes and did some surgeries because she says she always felt like a woman. But she doesn't even try to work on her voice, posture or carry a bag the feminine way. To me she doesn't want to put any real effort in it.
> And yes because she still is white, male and privileged, she is not in it with her whole heart (in my opinion)


Because she's white?


----------



## White Orchid

I still don't get how she can have an erection if she considered herself a woman all along.  I mean you like wearing dresses, you like makeup and so on and yet you still get aroused by all the wives you had.  If I'm confused, I wonder how that messes with your own kid's head.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

White Orchid said:


> I still don't get how she can have an erection if she considered herself a woman all along.  I mean you like wearing dresses, you like makeup and so on and yet you still get aroused by all the wives you had.  If I'm confused, I wonder how that messes with your own kid's head.



She didn't change her sexuality, she changed her gender. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with it, she didn't say she didn't or wasn't attracted to women, but she felt uncomfortable in the biological gender she was born with.


----------



## sdkitty

I guess she could be a woman and a lesbian


White Orchid said:


> I still don't get how she can have an erection if she considered herself a woman all along.  I mean you like wearing dresses, you like makeup and so on and yet you still get aroused by all the wives you had.  If I'm confused, I wonder how that messes with your own kid's head.


----------



## White Orchid

sdkitty said:


> I guess she could be a woman and a lesbian


Still don't get it.  She still had erections with all the women he was with.  Lesbians don't have hardons, as far as I know.  Lesbians don't have penises either for that matter.


----------



## sdkitty

White Orchid said:


> Still don't get it.  She still had erections with all the women he was with.  Lesbians don't have hardons, as far as I know.  Lesbians don't have penises either for that matter.


I don't pretend to understand the whole thing.  Honestly it seems kind of crazy to me that a big, athletic guy - famous athlete - would want to change his gender so late in life.  No amount of him saying he always felt like a girl really explains it to me.  IMO (and I know not politically correct) he could have saved his family a lot of discomfort by just dressing in drag.


----------



## Sassys

White Orchid said:


> Still don't get it.  She still had erections with all the women he was with.  Lesbians don't have hardons, as far as I know.  Lesbians don't have penises either for that matter.



If your body has a penis and you get aroused; your body part that gets aroused would become erect (makes no difference what it is). If your body has a clitoris, that would be aroused. She was born with a penis, so that is the only thing that can get aroused.

If you are attracted to women and have a penis, that gets hard/aroused. If you are attracted to women and have a vagina, your clitoris gets aroused.

If you are attracted to men and have a penis, that’s gets hard. If you are attracted to women and have a penis, your penis gets hard.

Are you saying, because you have a penis, you can’t get hard for a woman if you identify as a woman? Doesn’t work that way.


----------



## Sassys

sdkitty said:


> I don't pretend to understand the whole thing.  Honestly it seems kind of crazy to me that a big, athletic guy - famous athlete - would want to change his gender so late in life.  No amount of him saying he always felt like a girl really explains it to me.  IMO (and I know not politically correct) he could have saved his family a lot of discomfort by just dressing in drag.



But why can't she be happy just like everyone else? Someone should be miserable to please others? We all should have happiness, no matter what it is; especially if it's not hurting anyone. If your family truly loves you they want you to be happy and its not hurting anyone.

There are far to many unhappy people in the world, and if becoming what you truly feel inside will make you happy; do it. Dressing up as a woman is only what you see on the outside.


----------



## sdkitty

Sassys said:


> But why can't she be happy just like everyone else? Someone should be miserable to please others? We all should have happiness, no matter what it is; especially if it's not hurting anyone. If your family truly loves you they want you to be happy and its not hurting anyone.
> 
> There are far to many unhappy people in the world, and if becoming what you truly feel inside will make you happy; do it. Dressing up as a woman is only what you see on the outside.


I'm just saying I don't understand it


----------



## White Orchid

Sassys said:


> But why can't she be happy just like everyone else? Someone should be miserable to please others? We all should have happiness, no matter what it is; especially if it's not hurting anyone. If your family truly loves you they want you to be happy and its not hurting anyone.
> 
> There are far to many unhappy people in the world, and if becoming what you truly feel inside will make you happy; do it. Dressing up as a woman is only what you see on the outside.


To be honest, I don't think Bruce was as miserable as he makes it out to be.  I think he's just milking it now as Caitlin because he's just as narcissistic and needy and attention-thirsty as all of the K-clan.


----------



## White Orchid

sdkitty said:


> I'm just saying I don't understand it


You almost sound apologetic.  Why?  What's wrong with not understanding?  Some people don't get Polygamy and that's fine.  I don't get this whole we *have* to see it from his/her side.  I don't and I doubt I ever will, no matter how many times people try and explain it.  Well there's that and the fact that I side-eye him, period.


----------



## sdkitty

White Orchid said:


> To be honest, I don't think Bruce was as miserable as he makes it out to be.  I think he's just milking it now as Caitlin because he's just as narcissistic and needy and attention-thirsty as all of the K-clan.


I never watched that show but from what I gathered he wasn't treated very well or given much attention by his wife.  That could have made him unhappy.  But not a reason to want to change gender.


----------



## berrydiva

White Orchid said:


> Still don't get it.  She still had erections with all the women he was with.  Lesbians don't have hardons, as far as I know.  Lesbians don't have penises either for that matter.


You do know how the penis and clitoris are related right? They both get aroused when one is stimulated. 

You seem to be confusing gender orientation with sexuality and they're not the same.


----------



## sdkitty

White Orchid said:


> You almost sound apologetic.  Why?  What's wrong with not understanding?  Some people don't get Polygamy and that's fine.  I don't get this whole we *have* to see it from his/her side.  I don't and I doubt I ever will, no matter how many times people try and explain it.  Well there's that and the fact that I side-eye him, period.


I guess I'm saying he/she has a right to do what they want.  But I find it hard to understand.


----------



## White Orchid

sdkitty said:


> I never watched that show but from what I gathered he wasn't treated very well or given much attention by his wife.  That could have made him unhappy.  But not a reason to want to change gender.


There are heaps of men out there that don't garner enough attention from their wives (for whatever reason) but they don't go around and start dressing as women.  Anyways, it's late here and this is doing my head in lol, so over and out.


----------



## White Orchid

sdkitty said:


> I guess I'm saying he/she has a right to do what they want.  But I find it hard to understand.


Yes he does.  But why go and publish a freakin book about it?  Cos he's as pathetic as the lot of them.  And again, I don't get it either, especially when you can eff up your kids in the process.


----------



## berrydiva

sdkitty said:


> I never watched that show but from what I gathered he wasn't treated very well or given much attention by his wife.  That could have made him unhappy.  But not a reason to want to change gender.


That's not the reason Bruce stated. He felt he was not assigned the correct gender from birth and while he was this celebrated male athlete, never felt as if he was correctly a man. I don't think this is one if those things one can easily understand unless you feel you were not born the correct gender. I've never thought I don't feel female so there's no real way for me to understand the feeling. However, I've watched friends struggle with their gender identity and became much happier after their reassignment. I understand the desire to pursue happiness.


----------



## sdkitty

berrydiva said:


> That's not the reason Bruce stated. He felt he was not assigned the correct gender from birth and while he was this celebrated male athlete, never felt as if he was correctly a man. I don't think this is one if those things one can easily understand unless you feel you were not born the correct gender. I've never thought I don't feel female so there's no real way for me to understand the feeling. However, I've watched friends struggle with their gender identity and became much happier after their reassignment. I understand the desire to pursue happiness.


You having friends with this situation has obviously given you a greater understanding and compassion.  Good for you.


----------



## Sassys

White Orchid said:


> Yes he does.  *But why go and publish a freakin book about it?*  Cos he's as pathetic as the lot of them.  And again, I don't get it either, especially when you can eff up your kids in the process.



You can say that about the millions of people who have written autobiographies. Since when is writing your story pathetic?? I am so confused with your comment.


----------



## berrydiva

sdkitty said:


> You having friends with this situation has obviously given you a greater understanding and compassion.  Good for you.


I don't know if compassion is the correct word....it's more about me not giving a eff what other people do with their lives so long as they are not sociopaths....more like #dontgiveafcuk


----------



## Sassys

sdkitty said:


> You having friends with this situation has obviously given you a greater understanding and compassion.  Good for you.



I know 2 transgender people (wouldn't call them friends), but its all about happiness. If something makes someone happy, why do we question it or make fun of them. I know plenty of people who have horrible depression for many reasons and just want an ounce of happiness; whether its family hurt, relationship hurt, hurt from health, job hurt. Makes no difference. They all want happiness. We all should have what makes us happy; if it is not physically hurting anyone else.

Bruce watched his wives and children fined their happiness and now Caitlyn deserves to finally get her happiness. Yes, we make sacrifices for our kids; but all kids are grown now and its time to finally get what she wants. She's not hurting anyone.


----------



## Allisonfaye

sdkitty said:


> I don't pretend to understand the whole thing.  Honestly it seems kind of crazy to me that a big, athletic guy - famous athlete - would want to change his gender so late in life.  No amount of him saying he always felt like a girl really explains it to me.  IMO (and I know not politically correct) he could have saved his family a lot of discomfort by just dressing in drag.



I heard about a year ago that between the show and the book and everything, he stood to make a around a half BILLION (yes, BILLION) $$.


----------



## Sassys

Allisonfaye said:


> I heard about a year ago that between the show and the book and everything, he stood to make a around a half BILLION (yes, BILLION) $$.



Her advance for the book was $4 million, so I am not sure what you read, as there is no way she will make half a billion. Also, her show has been canceled, so there is no money from that.


----------



## sdkitty

I don't believe he changed his gender for monetary reasons.  But I don't put it past him to want to capitalize on his situation (as opposed to writing the book to help other transgender people).


Allisonfaye said:


> I heard about a year ago that between the show and the book and everything, he stood to make a around a half BILLION (yes, BILLION) $$.


----------



## Allisonfaye

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-richer-kardashians-experts-article-1.2244402


----------



## TC1

sdkitty said:


> I don't believe he changed his gender for monetary reasons.  But I don't put it past him to want to capitalize on his situation (as opposed to writing the book to help other transgender people).


All of the Kardashians have capitalized off of something at some point. Kim being the original (with Kris' help) after her porn "leaked". So, Caitlyn is just applying what she's learned all these years to bring home the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> Her advance for the book was $4 million, so I am not sure what you read, as there is no way she will make half a billion. Also, her show has been canceled, so there is no money from that.


Ratings were low for the Diane Sawyer special last week and I heard book sales are sluggish. I don''t think anyone cares anymore.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

sdkitty said:


> I don't pretend to understand the whole thing.  Honestly it seems kind of crazy to me that a big, athletic guy - famous athlete - would want to change his gender so late in life.  No amount of him saying he always felt like a girl really explains it to me.  IMO (and I know not politically correct) he could have saved his family a lot of discomfort by just dressing in drag.



You don't have to understand it, it's ok if you do not, but what I'd say is wrong is judging her (not saying you are, as not understanding and judging are two different things) and hating her, such as the trolls on comments sections in online stories about her. You'd think she has killed their families and ate them with the amount of hatred and ridiculing she gets. Most disguise their hatred under the religion umbrella, which is beyond hypocritical. 
She's stated she's felt like she was born in the wrong body her entire life, she didn't fit in, never felt comfortable with herself, had to lead a fake life and fake identity for 65 years, because she was too afraid to come out with her secret. It cannot have been easy, and despite all her privileges, she was still unhappy and even had thoughts of killing herself. Now that she is finally done with this, she can live an authentic, happy life for the rest of her years.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

berrydiva said:


> You do know how the penis and clitoris are related right? They both get aroused when one is stimulated.
> 
> You seem to be confusing gender orientation with sexuality and they're not the same.



I also said the same thing on the previous page.


----------



## guccimamma

there is not one minuscule thing that i can relate to with this family.


----------



## LadyLouboutin08

I'm all for people doing what makes them happy as long as they aren't harming others. Life is long, would suck to go though the entire thing being miserable. My issue with Caitlyn is how out of touch she is and her lack of interest in even trying to understand the issues. I just want her STFU, tbh. Even Ellen Degeneres was put off by her....something is wrong Ellen has trouble warming up to you. 


Side note: They way mods cherry pic political commentary is interesting....


----------



## sdkitty

TC1 said:


> All of the Kardashians have capitalized off of something at some point. Kim being the original (with Kris' help) after her porn "leaked". So, Caitlyn is just applying what she's learned all these years to bring home the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$


true.  But unlike the girls (particularly the youngest two) he didn't grow up with this.  He was a grown, world-famous man.  So I don't really think you can blame Kris for his behavior.  He may have been envious of all the attention and the money but how he lives his life is on him (or her) IMO.


----------



## BAGLADY 3375

mkr said:


> Caitlyn does nothing to be a woman except put on a dress.  For all the wealth and privilege, he could look beautiful.  Instead he looks like the cheap tranny hookers I see on Saturdays down at the Strip District.
> 
> No offense to any cheap tranny hookers.


I told my dad if he put on a skirt and heels he would have put in the same damn piss poor effort as Braitlyn minus cutting off your junk. That HULKING walk and dude voice? I thought he always felt like a woman? I read online that the LGBT community can't stand him, he's a self promoter.  Are we even allowed to say TRANNY anymore?  I'm sure that's some sort of "ism", "ic" or "ist" word. My kids in college deem everything racist or phobic. So damn dramatic. College's are a breeding ground for chaos. Just follow the crowd. Yell, scream and break things till you get what you want. Mine were not raised this way. SMDH.


----------



## chowlover2

I have no problem with anyone living their truth. I find it so odd that she doesn't even try to modulate his voice in more feminine tones. That's what I find so off putting. That and the fact he carries her handbag like a bag of rocks. The time she opened her car door and put the handbag on the ground while she got out made me cringe. Surely if you watched women as carefully as Caitlyn claims she did you would know better.


----------



## berrydiva

Lmao at the "this is what a woman should be like" comments....because Lawd knows if you dont carry your handbag or talk a certain way, you're not feminine. This isn't the 1950s....you're no longer bound to the definition of what men has determined you to be as a woman or feminine.


----------



## mkr

Well at least Caitlyn has something to talk about or is at least living an unusual life to get people's attention and watch her shows.  I still can't believe people are watching the boring K's do and say nothing on TV for over a decade.


----------



## guccimamma

berrydiva said:


> *Lmao at the "this is what a woman should be like" comments.*...because Lawd knows if you dont carry your handbag or talk a certain way, you're not feminine. This isn't the 1950s....you're no longer bound to the definition of what men has determined you to be as a woman or feminine.



agreed!

 i don't care what kind of woman he is. (she is).  i really never thought she would be the feminine sort to begin with.  my dad and bruce are of similar build...my dad's a bit older, so when i see him in a dress...all i see is my dad's long knobby-kneed legs.

i just don't like the person at this point, don't care about the gender... caitlyn just seems like a miserable fame addicted soul. 

god bless her, maybe she is happy living all alone in malibu dressing up and prancing around to get coffee.  i don't know a lot of 66 year olds doing that,  man or woman.  i certainly won't have a weave on my head and wear heels to the market, if i should make it to that point in life.  i'm going to go with comfort...all the way.

edit, caitlyn  is 67 y/o


----------



## berrydiva

sdkitty said:


> true.  But unlike the girls (particularly the youngest two) he didn't grow up with this.  He was a grown, world-famous man.  So I don't really think you can blame Kris for his behavior.  He may have been envious of all the attention and the money but how he lives his life is on him (or her) IMO.


Bruce had always seeked fame since he realized his talents. This behavior of his is not new or a result of the Kardashians. I feel like he met his match with Kris....she wanted fame and so did he.


----------



## sdkitty

mkr said:


> Well at least Caitlyn has something to talk about or is at least living an unusual life to get people's attention and watch her shows.  I still can't believe people are watching the boring K's do and say nothing on TV for over a decade.


I think now that the initial shock is over people have lost interest......will see what the book sales are.  But I don't think her recent TV appearances had nearly the ratings of her first one with Diane Sawyer.


----------



## Grace123

I don't care if someone wants to identify as a dolphin, to me this is just another rich celebrity who caused the death of another person and suffered no consequences.


----------



## Sassys

BAGLADY 3375 said:


> I told my dad if he put on a skirt and heels he would have put in the same damn piss poor effort as Braitlyn minus cutting off your junk. That HULKING walk and dude voice? I thought he always felt like a woman? I read online that the LGBT community can't stand him, he's a self promoter.  Are we even allowed to say TRANNY anymore?  I'm sure that's some sort of "ism", "ic" or "ist" word. My kids in college deem everything racist or phobic. So damn dramatic. College's are a breeding ground for chaos. Just follow the crowd. Yell, scream and break things till you get what you want. Mine were not raised this way. SMDH.



It takes some kids a year to walk; why  would you think her walk or voice would change so fast after 65 years? We are not born learning how to walk in heels.


----------



## Sassys

Grace123 said:


> I don't care if someone wants to identify as a dolphin, to me this is just another rich celebrity who caused the death of another person and suffered no consequences.



You never had an accident (not just a car accident)? Bruce did not wake up that morning and say "hmm, I think just for sh$ts and giggles I'll cause a car accident and kill someone". Come on... accidents happen. Bad things happen to good people every day.


----------



## mkr

Sassys said:


> It takes some kids a year to walk; why  would you think her walk or voice would change so fast after 65 years? We are not born learning how to walk in heels.


Well he's been wearing them behind closed doors for 40 years.  You'd think he'd be a little better at it by now.


----------



## Sassys

mkr said:


> Well he's been wearing them behind closed doors for 40 years.  You'd think he'd be a little better at it by now.



Stop. 

Plenty of women wear heels for years and as they get older can't tolerate it like they did when they were younger


----------



## pukasonqo

horse17 said:


> Because she's white?



nope, because is all about her
bruce was a conservative, rich white guy, caitlynn is a conservative, rich white woman that because she has, finally, come out of the closet she would, somehow, understand the struggles of the LGBT community, minorities, etc was a very, very long shot


----------



## horse17

pukasonqo said:


> nope, because is all about her
> bruce was a conservative, rich white guy, caitlynn is a conservative, rich white woman that because she has, finally, come out of the closet she would, somehow, understand the struggles of the LGBT community, minorities, etc was a very, very long shot


oh okay.......so if she was a rich/white/liberal,  she would also not relate?


----------



## Grace123

Sassys said:


> You never had an accident (not just a car accident)? Bruce did not wake up that morning and say "hmm, I think just for sh$ts and giggles I'll cause a car accident and kill someone". Come on... accidents happen. Bad things happen to good people every day.



I realize this has already been argued to death here. I also realize that if one causes the death of another person, accident or not, there are usually legal consequences. Not however, in this case.


----------



## redney

horse17 said:


> oh okay.......so if she was a rich/white/liberal,  she would also not relate?


I think rich and white are the operative words here.


----------



## BAGLADY 3375

Sassys said:


> It takes some kids a year to walk; why  would you think her walk or voice would change so fast after 65 years? We are not born learning how to walk in heels.


Exactly, 65 years old. Not 2 years old. Didn't kim and Courtney catch her in their mom's clothes and things YEARS ago?? Guess she wasn't practicing hard enough all those years to pull this off IRL. Regardless, the deep male voice is off putting and I don't really have to explain to you why do I? Most find the voice thing strange on comment boards so this is not some brand new observation.


----------



## horse17

redney said:


> I think rich and white are the operative words here.


Really?....so there are no rich white people in the LGBT community?


----------



## redney

horse17 said:


> Really?....so there are no rich white people in the LGBT community?


LOL, of course! Rich and white are Caitlyn's privilege. Her actions have shown she's not attuned to the struggles of the LGBTQ community, and she's certainly not trying to connect or be supportive to the community at large. She's been widely criticized as a result. Here's pukasonqo's post, to which you replied, and I replied to you.




			
				pukosonqo said:
			
		

> nope, because is all about her.
> bruce was a conservative, rich white guy, caitlynn is a conservative, rich white woman that because she has, finally, come out of the closet she would, somehow, understand the struggles of the LGBT community, minorities, etc was a very, very long shot


----------



## sdkitty

horse17 said:


> Really?....so there are no rich white people in the LGBT community?


I think being rich and white have protected her from a lot of the struggles that other trans people go through


----------



## horse17

redney said:


> LOL, of course! Rich and white are Caitlyn's privilege. Here's pukasonqo's post, to which you replied, and I replied to you.


Yes...I got that..but I read the post as saying because she is rich white conservative she is incapable of understanding the struggles of the community......


----------



## horse17

sdkitty said:


> I think being rich and white have protected her from a lot of the struggles that other trans people go through


Perhaps she has more resources for transition, but the struggle is real...for everyone...


----------



## sdkitty

horse17 said:


> Perhaps she has more resources for transition, but the struggle is real...for everyone...


I'm not an authority by any means but I seem to recall hearing resources are a huge problem.....expensive surgery, etc.  But don't a lot of them enter into prostitution, get beat up, etc?


----------



## horse17

sdkitty said:


> I'm not an authority by any means but I seem to recall hearing resources are a huge problem.....expensive surgery, etc.  But don't a lot of them enter into prostitution, get beat up, etc?


Unfortunately probably so.......i guess I was thinking about the emotional/cultural struggles...


----------



## kkfiregirl

berrydiva said:


> Lmao at the "this is what a woman should be like" comments....because Lawd knows if you dont carry your handbag or talk a certain way, you're not feminine. This isn't the 1950s....you're no longer bound to the definition of what men has determined you to be as a woman or feminine.



Unfortunately, many in the US still think/act like it's the 1950s.


----------



## kkfiregirl

My problem with Bruce is that he lived his whole life with male privilege & now wants to be a woman. 

He didn't have to deal with sexual/street harassment, bloody & painful periods, or being concerned for his safety walking home late at night. 

Now in his 60s he gets to enjoy being a 'woman' and all that comes along with it.


----------



## redney

sdkitty said:


> I'm not an authority by any means but I seem to recall hearing resources are a huge problem.....expensive surgery, etc.  *But don't a lot of them enter into prostitution, get beat up, etc?*



No, "a lot of them" don't.


----------



## sdkitty

redney said:


> No, "a lot of them" don't.


from an article in Huff Post on  trans Teens:
The National Transgender Discrimination Survey asked over 6,000 transgender participants about their personal experiences. Those who expressed a transgender identity in grades K-12 reported several different forms of harassment.

78% said they were harassed.
35% said they experienced physical assault.
12% said they experienced sexual violence.
15% said the harassment was so severe that it led them to leave a school.

*ALSO ON HUFFPOST:*

Best Teen TED Talks

Jessica Kane Director of Millennial Outreach, The Huffington Post
*MORE:*
The Mash Teens Transgender Teens Transgender Transgender Students



*CONVERSATIONS*





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----------



## redney

Sure, but harassment isn't "beat up" as you originally stated. Is 35% who've reported physical violence "a lot"? I'm sure there's "a lot" who don't report and are thus not included. I for one would like to see that figure be zero. But unfortunately we don't have a society in the U.S. without physical violence against anyone.

I don't get the "a lot" in relation to those entering prostitution either. But hey, if you've got stats to cite, I'm all ears.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

BAGLADY 3375 said:


> I told my dad if he put on a skirt and heels he would have put in the same damn piss poor effort as Braitlyn minus cutting off your junk. That HULKING walk and dude voice? I thought he always felt like a woman? I read online that the LGBT community can't stand him, he's a self promoter.  Are we even allowed to say TRANNY anymore?  I'm sure that's some sort of "ism", "ic" or "ist" word. My kids in college deem everything racist or phobic. So damn dramatic. College's are a breeding ground for chaos. Just follow the crowd. Yell, scream and break things till you get what you want. Mine were not raised this way. SMDH.



'Tranny' is a derogatory term, and always was, people just didn't voice this. It was never ok to use it in reference to transvestites and transgenders. It was used mostly for transvestites which is men in drag. Transgender is not the same as transvestite.


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

Sassys said:


> It takes some kids a year to walk; why  would you think her walk or voice would change so fast after 65 years? We are not born learning how to walk in heels.



This, and you cannot really change your voice, unless you put in years of training in voice modulation. Your voice is your own.


----------



## berrydiva

kkfiregirl said:


> Unfortunately, many in the US still think/act like it's the 1950s.


As the elders say "you aint say nothing but a word!" Then folks wonder why women are still paid less.


----------



## berrydiva

horse17 said:


> Yes...I got that..but I read the post as saying because she is rich white conservative she is incapable of understanding the struggles of the community......


Judging by the LGBT's reception of Caitlyn, based on comments she's made and her lack of understanding/support of many of their issues, seems her views and privilege has hindered the ability to fully relate to the struggles of their community. Let's also not act like being white in America is not a privilege...being rich and white is privilege amongst privilege. Caitlyn has continually made it clear that she intends to retain conservative views that are directly opposes her own community's social progress and she can do such partly due to begin a rich white conservative. I don't think that says anything negative against all rich white conservatives...only says something about Caitlyn. She wants to still retain the privilege of being a rich white conservative man but also wants to live her true self which unfortunately are at odds.


----------



## horse17

berrydiva said:


> Judging by the LGBT's reception of Caitlyn, based on comments she's made and her lack of understanding/support of many of their issues, seems her views and privilege has hindered the ability to fully relate to the struggles of their community. Let's also not act like being white in America is not a privilege...being rich and white is privilege amongst privilege. Caitlyn has continually made it clear that she intends to retain conservative views that are directly opposes her own community's social progress and she can do such partly due to begin a rich white conservative. I don't think that says anything negative against all rich white conservatives...only says something about Caitlyn. She wants to still retain the privilege of being a rich white conservative man but also wants to live her true self which unfortunately are at odds.


Aaaahhhh,,,its all about white privilege again....aka..the pillar of contemporary leftism....


----------



## Sassys

Grace123 said:


> I realize this has already been argued to death here. I also realize that if one causes the death of another person, accident or not, there are usually legal consequences. Not however, in this case.


Singer actress Brandy caused an accident that killed someone and was not charged.

Actress Rebecca Gayheart killed a 9yr old boy and was not charged.

Singer Luther Vandross killed a person in a car accident.

None of this people were charged because it was an accident.

Bruce was not the only one to get off. I have a family member that was recently killed in a motorcycle accident. His friends said the driver of the car was the cause but we all knew that was a lie and he was known for playing chicken on the road. His wife wanted to sue and press charges and we talked her out of it, because she knew deep in her heart her husband played games on the road and 3 strikes is what killed him.


----------



## berrydiva

horse17 said:


> Aaaahhhh,,,its all about white privilege again....aka..the pillar of contemporary leftism....


You're reading what you want to read. You don't know if I'm on the left, middle or right but your bothered because why? Is admitting Bruce/Caitlyn benefited from rich white conservative privilege and as a result not able to fully support and understand the LGBT community striking a chord with you or something? You seem to think that all people commenting here are translating rich white privilege into something negative....that's your issue to own. We're discussing Bruce's inability to let that part of his life go to fully embrace his new life.


----------



## berrydiva

Grace123 said:


> I realize this has already been argued to death here. I also realize that if one causes the death of another person, accident or not, there are usually legal consequences. Not however, in this case.


Most people are not charged with any legal consequences in the event of an accident unless they were under the influence at the time of the accident or there's premediation. It's called an accident for a reason.

My cousin's boyfriend was killed in an accident where a woman ran a red light...she faced no criminal charges. It was an accident. Driving is a social activity, unfortunately, requiring everyone behind the wheel to be vigilant.


----------



## Grace123

You won't change my mind on this. We have defended a ton of people who have been charged with a crime when they have caused the death of another human. Some made it to trial, some were plead out before, but every single one who had the charges dropped were rich and white. He/she is just another cog in the wheel of privilege,


----------



## Sassys

Grace123 said:


> You won't change my mind on this. We have defended a ton of people who have been charged with a crime when they have caused the death of another human. Some made it to trial, some were plead out before, but every single one who had the charges dropped were rich and white. He/she is just another cog in the wheel of privilege,



Uh, I just gave you two examples of black people that were not charged. Race has nothing to do with it.


----------



## berrydiva

Grace123 said:


> You won't change my mind on this. We have defended a ton of people who have been charged with a crime when they have caused the death of another human. Some made it to trial, some were plead out before, but every single one who had the charges dropped were rich and white. He/she is just another cog in the wheel of privilege,


I'm personally not seeking to change your mind fyi...only stating that what you said isn't true that if one causes the death of another in an accident there are legal consequences. Many people are never even charged with a crime in the case of an accident....all states vary of course so YMMV I guess.


----------



## Grace123

My point is, that no matter where one lives, if you have big money, you're more likely to not suffer any consequences for your actions.


----------



## berrydiva

Grace123 said:


> My point is, that no matter where one lives, if you have big money, you're more likely to not suffer any consequences for your actions.


Of course....with money comes privilege and for some not even knowing their actions have consequences. I'm not disputing that at all.


----------



## Sassys

Grace123 said:


> My point is, that no matter where one lives, if you have big money, you're more likely to not suffer any consequences for your actions.



Wrong. The man that my cousin wanted to sue for killing her husband was from Lancaster, CA and drove a Honda Civic. He didn't have a pot to piss in and was not the cause. Her husband was reckless and was killed in his 3rd motorcycle accident. My friend (a black man in major debt), also caused a major accident and was not charged.


----------



## Grace123

Sassys said:


> Wrong. The man that my cousin wanted to sue for killing her husband was from Lancaster, CA and drove a Honda Civic. He didn't have a pot to piss in and was not the cause. Her husband was reckless and was killed in his 3rd motorcycle accident. My friend (a black man in major debt), also caused a major accident and was not charged.



Wrong for you, maybe. Not for me.


----------



## GaitreeS

Tell your story Bruce I am here for it!


----------



## L etoile

kkfiregirl said:


> My problem with Bruce is that he lived his whole life with male privilege & now wants to be a woman.
> 
> He didn't have to deal with sexual/street harassment, bloody & painful periods, or being concerned for his safety walking home late at night.
> 
> Now in his 60s he gets to enjoy being a 'woman' and all that comes along with it.



Did you see the Kelly Ripa interview? He mansplained the entire thing. This is proof to me that Caitlyn has no idea of the struggles that real women face. I'm so insulted that he thinks it's "hard" to be a woman because he has to wear make-up and heels.  He mansplained the way that only older, white men do it.

He's as much of a woman to me as Rachel Dolezal is black.


----------



## kkfiregirl

L etoile said:


> Did you see the Kelly Ripa interview? He mansplained the entire thing. This is proof to me that Caitlyn has no idea of the struggles that real women face. I'm so insulted that he thinks it's "hard" to be a woman because he has to wear make-up and heels.  He mansplained the way that only older, white men do it.
> 
> He's as much of a woman to me as Rachel Dolezal is black.



No, I didn't see the interview, but I will watch it. 

As for Rachel Dolezal ... don't get me started [emoji14]


----------



## cdtracing

I think this whole book thing is just another attempt to feed the thirst for attention.  From what I've seen & read, he/she is not really liked by  any group, including the LGBT community.  Caitlyn comes across as rude & self centered.  Seems like this is his/her personality & that's not really going to change regardless of what sex he/she now is.  I don't really understand how Caitlyn can claim to resonate & understand many of women's issues when having lived the majority of her life as Bruce.  Men don't experience a lot of what women go through so, while many may be empathetic, they still don't fully understand.  I think everyone should be happy in life but one's life choices has consequences.  I don't know if Bruce thought once he became Caitlyn, people would laud him like they did when he won all those medals at the Olympics, or if he thought his life would be easier once he made the transition (since he says he has always thought himself to be female), or what.  It seems to me that Caitlyn still has work to do on herself.  Being a shallow, rude, a$$hole is not going to win any popularity contests & it appears that these guest appearances to push the book isn't doing Caitlyn any favors either.  I get the feeling that this book tour is only demonstrating how out of touch Caitlyn really is.


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> Ratings were low for the Diane Sawyer special last week and I heard book sales are sluggish. I don''t think anyone cares anymore.



Book went on sale Tuesday and so far she sold 187 copies. Not good

Kris sold 5,606 copies her first week in 2011
*
*


----------



## cdtracing

Sassys said:


> Book went on sale Tuesday and so far she sold 187 copies. Not good


Wow!  That's really low.


----------



## Sassys

cdtracing said:


> Wow!  That's really low.



The most were bought in the west coast.  All stores that report to bookscan, might not have sent all their numbers in yet.


----------



## sdkitty

maybe we'll see the book at the 99-cent store soon


----------



## Ceeyahd

Caitlin is the radio, Sirius Radio Andy. She's telling her story about learning about her mistakes in recent interviews. I'm catching it on the fly in the short. No listening to whole interview.


----------



## cdtracing

Ceeyahd said:


> Caitlin is the radio, Sirius Radio Andy. She's telling her story about learning about her mistakes in recent interviews. I'm catching it on the fly in the short. No listening to whole interview.



Not listening to the interview but if Caitlyn has really learned from her mistakes, she should start demonstrating that by her actions & deeds.  Actions will speak louder than words at this point.


----------



## chowlover2

cdtracing said:


> Wow!  That's really low.


Wow, I didn't think they would be that low!


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> Wow, I didn't think they would be that low!



Fell bad for her


----------



## redney

Caitlyn is desperately trying to hold onto her dwindling "15 minutes".


----------



## cdtracing

Sassys said:


> Fell bad for her
> View attachment 3682113



I'm not really surprised.  Caitlyn has turned so many people against her by her words &  attitiude that not many people would be willing to spend $30 for her book.  Her recent interviews promoting the book hasn't help to improve people's opinions, either.  I, also think many are just tired of her Me, Me, Me BS & are over her altogether.  I imagine that Caitlyn's attitude & beliefs are still the same the attitude & beliefs of Bruce so it might be a little difficult to reconcile them to who she claims to be now.  I also think the public, especially the LGBT community, expected more from Bruce once he transitioned to Caitlyn than he's obviously able to give.  I know several people in the LGBT community who couldn't care less about Caitlyn or the book.  They honestly don't see Caitlyn as anyone who will be a positive role model or make a positive contribution to their community.  In fact, they see her as doing more harm than good & wish she would just fade away from the public eye & live her life quietly.


----------



## Sassys

cdtracing said:


> I'm not really surprised.  Caitlyn has turned so many people against her by her words &  attitiude that not many people would be willing to spend $30 for her book.  Her recent interviews promoting the book hasn't help to improve people's opinions, either.  I, also think many are just tired of her Me, Me, Me BS & are over her altogether.  I imagine that Caitlyn's attitude & beliefs are still the same the attitude & beliefs of Bruce so it might be a little difficult to reconcile them to who she claims to be now.  I also think the public, especially the LGBT community, expected more from Bruce once he transitioned to Caitlyn than he's obviously able to give.  I know several people in the LGBT community who couldn't care less about Caitlyn or the book.  They honestly don't see Caitlyn as anyone who will be a positive role model or make a positive contribution to their community.  In fact, they see her as doing more harm than good & wish she would just fade away from the public eye & live her life quietly.



I'm shocked at the numbers, because I thought people would buy to see if she told some Kardashian secrets. I've been in the book business for 16yrs and never saw numbers like this.


----------



## cdtracing

Sassys said:


> I'm shocked at the numbers, because I thought people would buy to see if she told some Kardashian secrets. I've been in the book business for 16yrs and never saw numbers like this.



I'm sure that was the main reason for what sales there are.  I'm sure most thought there would be a Kartrashian secret or two revealed.  I just don't see people buying it to read about Caitlyn's journey.


----------



## Ceeyahd

cdtracing said:


> Not listening to the interview but if Caitlyn has really learned from her mistakes, she should start demonstrating that by her actions & deeds.  Actions will speak louder than words at this point.[/QUOTE
> 
> Doubt her core opinions can change.


----------



## cdtracing

I doubt it, too.


----------



## guccimamma

bruce/caitlin just comes off as an untrustworthy person at this point.  you can't really come back from that.

he seems to betray everyone, and only seems to be concerned about herself. 

sorry, i mix my pronouns...


----------



## BagOuttaHell

This woman is 70, rich and lives in Malibu. That is the dream. She'll recover. Take those knocked knees and kitten heels and SIDDOWN somewhere on the beach.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I guess all her rent-a-friends have left the building...


----------



## guccimamma

honestly who cares what gender you are at 67, not worth the trouble and heartache in my opinion. 

 i'd go to the beach with my dogs and enjoy every sunset in my pj's with a glass of wine.


----------



## Irishgal

Sassys said:


> Fell bad for her
> View attachment 3682113



Geez my book did better and I'm a nobody


----------



## gracekelly

Irishgal said:


> Geez my book did better and I'm a nobody


So not true!  Besides people like doxies that have four legs and he/she just has two.


----------



## Hobbsy

I think Bruce would have benefited from more therapy and a longer transition time. It just seems like he went about this way too fast? JMO.


----------



## terebina786

I think people just don't care.  She jumped on the Kardashian shock wagon too late.


----------



## Irishgal

gracekelly said:


> So not true!  Besides people like doxies that have four legs and he/she just has two.



Good point. Roxie is way more likable. [emoji177]


----------



## guccimamma

just something to share with the kids...


----------



## gillianna

Bruce is just as thirsty if not more than his family.  At his age Becoming Caitlyn could have been done in a more private way but it seemed rushed and the world needed to know.  He still does not come across as being comfortable in his new skin as Caitlyn.  Just as miserable looking and only more desperate for  15 minutes of fame. 

As Caitlyn her TV show was cancelled,  book sales seem to be bad and TV appearances are desperate look at me.  I doubt many people care about her now and never will.  Without the daily coffee pap walk what does she have?  Talks of posing nude for a magazine is just so gross.  People are sick of Kim being nude, Caitlyn would be 100 times worse even though photoshop is that families best friend.  Caitlyn in pictures and on TV comes across as very fake.  I do not feel Bruce has embraced being Caitlyn.  She still does not act like a woman.  If she felt she was a woman his whole it sure does not show.


----------



## Sassys

Allisonfaye said:


> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-richer-kardashians-experts-article-1.2244402



Article was written before the show flopped, before people started to hate her and before her book.


----------



## Allisonfaye

Never saw it or any of her interviews. Why do they hate her?


----------



## sdkitty

Allisonfaye said:


> Never saw it or any of her interviews. Why do they hate her?


if you read comments on this thread, I think she's viewed as superficial and attention-seeking.  same as the rest of the Kardashians


----------



## Sassys

chowlover2 said:


> Wow, I didn't think they would be that low!





cdtracing said:


> I'm sure that was the main reason for what sales there are.  I'm sure most thought there would be a Kartrashian secret or two revealed.  I just don't see people buying it to read about Caitlyn's journey.





Irishgal said:


> Geez my book did better and I'm a nobody




She's up to 11,193, so she will make NYT List. Stores were late sending their number in when I first gave numbers. Her biggest sales come from the West Coast


----------



## chowlover2

Sassys said:


> She's up to 11,193, so she will make NYT List. Stores were late sending their number in when I first gave numbers. Her biggest sales come from the West Coast


That's still nothing, don't think they will recoup the 4 million they paid her.


----------



## Sasha2012

She's on a rare visit to the UK, promoting her tell-all new book.

And Caitlyn Jenner naturally timed her visit to coincide with the British LGBT Awards, attending the glitzy ceremony in London on Friday night.

The 67-year-old star, who recently confessed she had finally undergone gender reassignment surgery, opted for a classic party look, donning a glittering black gown.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-UK-appearance-LGBT-Awards.html#ixzz4gtuzEgkt


----------



## Luvbolide

I think that she thinks that going to benefits and awards shows is her own special way of supporting the LGBT community.  I don't follow her closely but don't recall ever hearing of her getting really digging in and trying to help.

To me, Bruce was an arrogant, self centered, wealthy white male ********** with very conservative views.  The only thing that has changed is her gender.


----------



## cdtracing

Still looks like a dude in drag to me.  At the very least, paint that funky thumb nail so it will blend in!!!!


----------



## sdkitty

cdtracing said:


> Still looks like a dude in drag to me.  At the very least, paint that funky thumb nail so it will blend in!!!!


yes, he may feel like a woman inside but on the outside she was better as a man


----------



## berrydiva

Luvbolide said:


> I think that she thinks that going to benefits and awards shows is her own special way of supporting the LGBT community.  I don't follow her closely but don't recall ever hearing of her getting really digging in and trying to help.
> 
> To me, Bruce was an arrogant, self centered, wealthy white male ********** with very conservative views.  The only thing that has changed is her gender.


I feel like this is part of the reason that the LGBT community has so many issues with Caitlyn. There seems to be no real work done in raising awareness of issues or support in basic civil rights.


----------



## Jayne1

Luvbolide said:


> I think that she thinks that going to benefits and awards shows is her own special way of supporting the LGBT community.  I don't follow her closely but don't recall ever hearing of her getting really digging in and trying to help.


An excuse to get dressed up and have her picture taken, I guess.


----------



## Luvbolide

berrydiva said:


> I feel like this is part of the reason that the LGBT community has so many issues with Caitlyn. There seems to be no real work done in raising awareness of issues or support in basic civil rights.






berrydiva said:


> I feel like this is part of the reason that the LGBT community has so many issues with Caitlyn. There seems to be no real work done in raising awareness of issues or support in basic civil rights.




I totally agree.  I don't think she even realizes that her experience has zero to do with the vast majority of LGBT. Folks.  She loves dressing up in poorly fitting stuff and strutting around in front of cameras.  I doubt that for most transgender people, spending $3 mil on feminization surgeries is something they could dream.

She is way too old to be Party Girl Cait without doing anything else to bring attention to the rights of all.  Bad Cait - she is using her powers for evil!


----------



## V0N1B2

Oh, y'all haven't heard about the new dream? Congresswoman Cait? 
I'd link, but I'm not sure which publications and words therein are safe from the edit eraser.  Let's just say a quick interwebz search will bring up her interview with the BBC about her dissatisfaction within her particular group and how she feels the need to bring LGBT awareness to a bunch of rich white (mostly) heterosexual men. I believe her words were "seriously looking at a run for office",
She might want to get out of Cali for a little while, if only to broaden her horizons and see how the transgendered live in places like... oh I don't know, let's say... Noth Carolina?


----------



## Hobbsy

V0N1B2 said:


> Oh, y'all haven't heard about the new dream? Congresswoman Cait?
> I'd link, but I'm not sure which publications and words therein are safe from the edit eraser.  Let's just say a quick interwebz search will bring up her interview with the BBC about her dissatisfaction within her particular group and how she feels the need to bring LGBT awareness to a bunch of rich white (mostly) heterosexual men. I believe her words were "seriously looking at a run for office",
> She might want to get out of Cali for a little while, if only to broaden her horizons and see how the transgendered live in places like... oh I don't know, let's say... Noth Carolina?


Oh Jesus, Martha and Joseph.


----------



## Luvbolide

V0N1B2 said:


> Oh, y'all haven't heard about the new dream? Congresswoman Cait?
> I'd link, but I'm not sure which publications and words therein are safe from the edit eraser.  Let's just say a quick interwebz search will bring up her interview with the BBC about her dissatisfaction within her particular group and how she feels the need to bring LGBT awareness to a bunch of rich white (mostly) heterosexual men. I believe her words were "seriously looking at a run for office",
> She might want to get out of Cali for a little while, if only to broaden her horizons and see how the transgendered live in places like... oh I don't know, let's say... Noth Carolina?




Oh please!  I wonder what she thinks raising awareness means.  Getting your photo taken by paps on your daily coffee run isn't quite it, Cait!


----------



## V0N1B2

I'm gonna go with the Toronto Sun since it seems, I dunno.... safe. 

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/26/caitlyn-jenner-would-consider-running-for-office

Caitlyn Jenner would “seriously look at a run” for office.

The 67-year-old reality star has been hitting headlines in recent weeks for her scandalous revelations in new memoir The Secrets of My Life. But if Caitlyn has her way, she could be following in the footsteps of U.S. President Donald ***** by making the move from the small screen to the political world.

Caitlyn was speaking at the 92nd Street Y community center in New York City on Tuesday at an event called Imagining Men & Women: Caitlyn Jenner on Transgender Identity and Courage when she made the revelation that she would consider running for office if that would mean she could do more good for her charitable foundation as a politician.

“Over the next year or two, I would look at where I can be more effective to helping my community,” she told the crowd. “Am I going to be more effective on the outside, raising money for my foundation? Doing things, being places, being critical of the administration when they screw up?

“Or, at some point, would I be better working from the inside? If that is the case, in another year or two, I would seriously look at a run. It just depends where I could be more effective.”

Caitlyn’s political stance has caused controversy recently, with the revelation that she voted for Donald ***** to win last year’s presidential election.

However, she insists that while she did back the former host of The Apprentice to run America, she has been disappointed with what he has done since coming to power.

“I certainly have always been on the ********** side. I believe in things like the Constitution and limited government. I lean towards the ********** Party because they are closer than the ********s to staying to limited government — although I’ve been very disappointed with them over the last several years,” she said

“My loyalties are not with the ********** Party. My loyalties are not with Donald *****. I’ll come after him and come after **********s when they start screwing up my community. And I got a voice and they’d better listen, because I will come after them.”

Caitlyn isn’t the only star to consider a move into politics. Scarlett Johansson recently revealed she would think about running for office when her daughter is older, Kanye West previously announced his intention to run for president in 2020, while Dwayne Johnson stated that *****’s victory had inspired him to think about a career in politics.


----------



## V0N1B2

And with that I bid you "Adieu Bishes"


----------



## Babydoll Chanel

V0N1B2 said:


> Oh, y'all haven't heard about the new dream? Congresswoman Cait?
> I'd link, but I'm not sure which publications and words therein are safe from the edit eraser.  Let's just say a quick interwebz search will bring up her interview with the BBC about her dissatisfaction within her particular group and how she feels the need to bring LGBT awareness to a bunch of rich white (mostly) heterosexual men. I believe her words were "seriously looking at a run for office",
> She might want to get out of Cali for a little while, if only to broaden her horizons and see how the transgendered live in places like... oh I don't know, let's say... Noth Carolina?



Everything about this post is


----------



## Grace123

V0N1B2 said:


> And with that I bid you "Adieu Bishes"



Hahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Luvbolide

V0N1B2 said:


> I'm gonna go with the Toronto Sun since it seems, I dunno.... safe.
> 
> http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/26/caitlyn-jenner-would-consider-running-for-office
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner would “seriously look at a run” for office.
> 
> The 67-year-old reality star has been hitting headlines in recent weeks for her scandalous revelations in new memoir The Secrets of My Life. But if Caitlyn has her way, she could be following in the footsteps of U.S. President Donald ***** by making the move from the small screen to the political world.
> 
> Caitlyn was speaking at the 92nd Street Y community center in New York City on Tuesday at an event called Imagining Men & Women: Caitlyn Jenner on Transgender Identity and Courage when she made the revelation that she would consider running for office if that would mean she could do more good for her charitable foundation as a politician.
> 
> “Over the next year or two, I would look at where I can be more effective to helping my community,” she told the crowd. “Am I going to be more effective on the outside, raising money for my foundation? Doing things, being places, being critical of the administration when they screw up?
> 
> “Or, at some point, would I be better working from the inside? If that is the case, in another year or two, I would seriously look at a run. It just depends where I could be more effective.”
> 
> Caitlyn’s political stance has caused controversy recently, with the revelation that she voted for Donald ***** to win last year’s presidential election.
> 
> However, she insists that while she did back the former host of The Apprentice to run America, she has been disappointed with what he has done since coming to power.
> 
> “I certainly have always been on the ********** side. I believe in things like the Constitution and limited government. I lean towards the ********** Party because they are closer than the ********s to staying to limited government — although I’ve been very disappointed with them over the last several years,” she said
> 
> “My loyalties are not with the ********** Party. My loyalties are not with Donald *****. I’ll come after him and come after **********s when they start screwing up my community. And I got a voice and they’d better listen, because I will come after them.”
> 
> Caitlyn isn’t the only star to consider a move into politics. Scarlett Johansson recently revealed she would think about running for office when her daughter is older, Kanye West previously announced his intention to run for president in 2020, while Dwayne Johnson stated that *****’s victory had inspired him to think about a career in politics.





Unbelievable!  She is always threatening to "go after" people who mess with her community.  I wonder what she thinks going after means in this situation.


----------



## cdtracing

V0N1B2 said:


> I'm gonna go with the Toronto Sun since it seems, I dunno.... safe.
> 
> http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/26/caitlyn-jenner-would-consider-running-for-office
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner would “seriously look at a run” for office.
> 
> The 67-year-old reality star has been hitting headlines in recent weeks for her scandalous revelations in new memoir The Secrets of My Life. But if Caitlyn has her way, she could be following in the footsteps of U.S. President Donald ***** by making the move from the small screen to the political world.
> 
> Caitlyn was speaking at the 92nd Street Y community center in New York City on Tuesday at an event called Imagining Men & Women: Caitlyn Jenner on Transgender Identity and Courage when she made the revelation that she would consider running for office if that would mean she could do more good for her charitable foundation as a politician.
> 
> “Over the next year or two, I would look at where I can be more effective to helping my community,” she told the crowd. “Am I going to be more effective on the outside, raising money for my foundation? Doing things, being places, being critical of the administration when they screw up?
> 
> “Or, at some point, would I be better working from the inside? If that is the case, in another year or two, I would seriously look at a run. It just depends where I could be more effective.”
> 
> Caitlyn’s political stance has caused controversy recently, with the revelation that she voted for Donald ***** to win last year’s presidential election.
> 
> However, she insists that while she did back the former host of The Apprentice to run America, she has been disappointed with what he has done since coming to power.
> 
> “I certainly have always been on the ********** side. I believe in things like the Constitution and limited government. I lean towards the ********** Party because they are closer than the ********s to staying to limited government — although I’ve been very disappointed with them over the last several years,” she said
> 
> “My loyalties are not with the ********** Party. My loyalties are not with Donald *****. I’ll come after him and come after **********s when they start screwing up my community. And I got a voice and they’d better listen, because I will come after them.”
> 
> Caitlyn isn’t the only star to consider a move into politics. Scarlett Johansson recently revealed she would think about running for office when her daughter is older, Kanye West previously announced his intention to run for president in 2020, while Dwayne Johnson stated that *****’s victory had inspired him to think about a career in politics.


I read about this, different article, though. My first thought was Caitlyn is truly delusional!


----------



## cdtracing

V0N1B2 said:


> And with that I bid you "Adieu Bishes"


 I live this!!!  I almost peed my pants!!


----------



## chowlover2

I just read that the name Caitlin has dropped in popularity since Bruce changed his name. Used to be very popular, no longer in the top 1000 names.


----------



## sdkitty

chowlover2 said:


> I just read that the name Caitlin has dropped in popularity since Bruce changed his name. Used to be very popular, no longer in the top 1000 names.


makes sense


----------



## tweegy

V0N1B2 said:


> And with that I bid you "Adieu Bishes"



you ain't right for that!!! Omg! Lmao


----------



## Sassys

Poor Cait, picked the wrong person to act up with. Amanda Seales is not the one...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVPeAFKA0VS/

'I don't wanna talk anymore!': Caitlyn Jenner is the lone ***** voter at awkward politically-charged dinner for 10 during Katy Perry's live stream

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-voter-Katy-Perry-s-dinner.html#ixzz4juskUvCa


----------



## berrydiva

Sassys said:


> Poor Cait, picked the wrong person to act up with. Amanda Seales is not the one...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BVPeAFKA0VS/
> 
> 'I don't wanna talk anymore!': Caitlyn Jenner is the lone ***** voter at awkward politically-charged dinner for 10 during Katy Perry's live stream
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-voter-Katy-Perry-s-dinner.html#ixzz4juskUvCa


Gonna try to keep this on the non-political side but Caitlyn wants to continue to get the benefits of being a white male in America because that's where Bruce was allowed to be great but doesn't want any of the ish that comes along with being other.....i have not one ounce of respect for Caitlyn.


----------



## Sassys

berrydiva said:


> Gonna try to keep this on the non-political side but Caitlyn wants to continue to get the benefits of being a white male in America because that's where Bruce was allowed to be great but doesn't want any of the ish that comes along with being other.....i have not one ounce of respect for Caitlyn.


I almost peed myself when she looked at her watch and said the government noticed you at 2pm this afternoon.


----------



## poopsie

Sassys said:


> Poor Cait, picked the wrong person to act up with. Amanda Seales is not the one...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BVPeAFKA0VS/
> 
> 'I don't wanna talk anymore!': Caitlyn Jenner is the lone ***** voter at awkward politically-charged dinner for 10 during Katy Perry's live stream
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-voter-Katy-Perry-s-dinner.html#ixzz4juskUvCa



"...........role her eyes......."
Seriously...........*ROLE *her eyes.?!?!?!
Roleing on the floor lmfbo
The Daily Fail strikes again


----------



## sdkitty

Kaitlyn has been co-hosting the view this week.  no amount of hair and makeup makes up for the manly voice and huge hands.  sorry, I just don't see it.


----------



## chowlover2

sdkitty said:


> Kaitlyn has been co-hosting the view this week.  no amount of hair and makeup makes up for the manly voice and huge hands.  sorry, I just don't see it.


I'm with you. She doesn't even try to change the manly voice. I don't understand why. She is the only transgender person I have seen to do so. One thing I noticed was how you can see where all the surgeries stop. It's as if the Drs were only concerned with her face from the front, but the sides and chin are all male. I hadn't noticed before, but in most pics she is heavily filtered or photoshopped.


----------



## Sassys

sdkitty said:


> Kaitlyn has been co-hosting the view this week.  no amount of hair and makeup makes up for the manly voice and huge hands.  sorry, I just don't see it.





chowlover2 said:


> I'm with you. She doesn't even try to change the manly voice. I don't understand why. She is the only transgender person I have seen to do so. One thing I noticed was how you can see where all the surgeries stop. It's as if the Drs were only concerned with her face from the front, but the sides and chin are all male. I hadn't noticed before, but in most pics she is heavily filtered or photoshopped.




How does one change their voice after 40+years of having it (assuming Bruce's voice changes at 15)? Most transgender don't transition in their 60's (Who else transitioned past 30?)


----------



## sdkitty

Sassys said:


> How does one change their voice after 40+years of having it (assuming Bruce's voice changes at 15)?


I don't know but she still seems pretty manly to me


----------



## Sassys

sdkitty said:


> I don't know but she still seems pretty manly to me



Iol I am side eyeing you now. You don't know, but you want her to change her voice in her sixties lol


----------



## sdkitty

Sassys said:


> Iol I am side eyeing you now. You don't know, but you want her to change her voice in her sixties lol


No.  someone else suggested she could change her voice - said other trans people do.  I only observed she's still very manly to me.  You still may want to side eye me anyway.  I guess I'm kinda skeptical of the whole gender-change at age 60-something.


----------



## Sassys

sdkitty said:


> No.  someone else suggested she could change her voice - said other trans people do.  I only observed she's still very manly to me.  You still may want to side eye me anyway.  I guess I'm kinda skeptical of the whole gender-change at age 60-something.



Don't know how much change you think you will see from a transgender that is in their late sixties. Women are not born learning how to walk in heels or sit like a lady. That is something that is taught for years. Hell, I know born women who can't walk in heels and don't sit or walk like a lady. No way a sixty something can change their voice over night. There is no surgery to change the size of your hands.

How much change do you expect from a sex change in your sixties lol a doctor can only do but so much when a person has lived half their life as a man.


----------



## sdkitty

Sassys said:


> Don't know how much change you think you will see from a transgender that is in their late sixties. Women are not born learning how to walk in heels or sit like a lady. That is something that is taught for years. Hell, I know born women who can't walk in heels and don't sit or walk like a lady. No way a sixty something can change their voice over night. There is no surgery to change the size of your hands.
> you got me....I'm being judgmental
> 
> How much change do you expect from a sex change in your sixties lol a doctor can only do but so much when a person has lived half their life as a man.


----------



## FreeSpirit71

She can't just "change her voice". SMDH - so you want her to put on a fake voice to appease your delicate sensibilities? But some people are also offended by her "pretending" to be a woman? She can't win.

The only thing that _might_ change her voice is the hormones, but that's unlikely and rare.

I don't like Caitlyn but some of these comments stank of transphobia and holding Caitlyn to an irrelevant standard of womanhood.


----------



## Jayne1

Sassys said:


> How does one change their voice after 40+years of having it (assuming Bruce's voice changes at 15)? Most transgender don't transition in their 60's (Who else transitioned past 30?)





FreeSpirit71 said:


> She can't just "change her voice". SMDH - so you want her to put on a fake voice to appease your delicate sensibilities? But some people are also offended by her "pretending" to be a woman? She can't win.
> 
> The only thing that _might_ change her voice is the hormones, but that's unlikely and rare.


I watched some of the first season of her reality show and they talked about this. She is very aware of her manly voice and wanted to get an operation/surgery to make it more feminine.

Her cast mates (paid for friends) who are all trans advised her not to do it because it's not always successful and they said that was the easy way out anyway.  There are therapists that could help her modulate her voice and they suggested that instead (a few of her "friends" changed their voices with therapy) but she didn't seem too anxious to do that type of work, because as they told her, it's a fair amount of dedicated work.


----------



## pukasonqo

http://huffp.st/ttc6RRA

i am sorry but she is an embarrassment to the LGBT community


----------



## BagOuttaHell

There is something wrong with her. I don't want to call it mental illness but there is something really wrong with her.  I don't even know how the LGBT community can even acknowledge her at this point.


----------



## Scully Piper

Sassys said:


> Don't know how much change you think you will see from a transgender that is in their late sixties. Women are not born learning how to walk in heels or sit like a lady. That is something that is taught for years. Hell, I know born women who can't walk in heels and don't sit or walk like a lady. No way a sixty something can change their voice over night. There is no surgery to change the size of your hands.
> 
> How much change do you expect from a sex change in your sixties lol a doctor can only do but so much when a person has lived half their life as a man.


I agree. Very well said. 
I also think women can get so overly critical of each other. And we wonder why there are those who are insecure or lack self confidence or end up with eating disorders. Not all of us are born looking like we stepped out of magazine covers. I've seen women (by birth) who have manly features such as having hard jaw lines, deep voice, big hands or big feet. Those features don't make them ugly. It just makes them different than others.


----------



## Scully Piper

FreeSpirit71 said:


> She can't just "change her voice". SMDH - so you want her to put on a fake voice to appease your delicate sensibilities? But some people are also offended by her "pretending" to be a woman? She can't win.
> 
> The only thing that _might_ change her voice is the hormones, but that's unlikely and rare.
> 
> I don't like Caitlyn but some of these comments stank of transphobia and holding Caitlyn to an irrelevant standard of womanhood.


Exactly! No matter what she does she can't seem to win.


----------



## nycmom

And then they came for me...


----------



## Sasha2012

She was attacked by her stepdaughters on Sunday's season premiere of Keeping Up With The Kardashians.

But on Monday, Caitlyn Jenner, 67, embarked on some retail therapy with friend Candis Cayne, 46, in Malibu, California.

The two gal pals were spotted exiting Sephora and toting their newly acquired makeup purchases.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...etail-therapy-Candis-Cayne.html#ixzz4uS0b6iVg


----------



## bag-princess

OMG - those feet!!! they always look so horrible in heels!! just awful! he needs help with his shoe game ASAP!!!


----------



## sdkitty

bag-princess said:


> OMG - those feet!!! they always look so horrible in heels!! just awful! he needs help with his shoe game ASAP!!!


and the legs....not much feminine about her


----------



## DC-Cutie

those shoes on a real gangsta lean...


----------



## cdtracing

Nothing femine to see here except for friend Candis.  Those feet & legs look beyond awful & need to be covered up.  Minis are not a good look for Bruce. At least Caitlyn isn't pregnant!!


----------



## redney

cdtracing said:


> At least Caitlyn isn't pregnant!!


Don't think PMK isn't trying to make it happen! Ratings, people!


----------



## cdtracing

redney said:


> Don't think PMK isn't trying to make it happen! Ratings, people!


It wouldn't surprise me!!!!


----------



## uhpharm01

She didn't use the same surgeon that Laverne Cox used.


----------



## Jayne1

Her knees look arthritic and swollen.  Don't think she should show them off.


----------



## rockhollow

that was really not a good outfit for Katelyn - pretty manly looking there. Those legs should be covered up - at least a dress below her knees.
Candis looks good.

I watched to KUWK, and Katelyn deserved a bit of bashing. She's given Kim a edited copy of her book to read, one without lots of the juicy details about Kris, that was a kind of low blow.
As for not informing them about her bottom surgery - I was ok about that - she (Katelyn) isn't obligated to inform the K's about what happens in her personal life. And apparently she had told the 2 Jenner girls before hand.
Both groups (Katelyn and the K"s) use each other for publicly - nothing new there.


----------



## White Orchid

Bottom surgery?


----------



## rockhollow

White Orchid said:


> Bottom surgery?


 On KUWK,they said she's had the final surgery to complete her transformation.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Something is going wrong here.


----------



## morgan20

Lol


----------



## morgan20

https://media.tenor.com/images/289a1e8af8469f9643b83781d77a4d19/tenor.gif


----------



## bag-princess

uhpharm01 said:


> She didn't use the same surgeon that Laverne Cox used.




you ain't never lied!!!!  but then maybe after seeing his work he is booked up until the day before the end of time.  i don't know who Cait used but they need their license revoked!!!


----------



## Sassys

bag-princess said:


> you ain't never lied!!!!  but then maybe after seeing his work he is booked up until the day before the end of time.  i don't know who Cait used but they need their license revoked!!!





BagOuttaHell said:


> Something is going wrong here.





uhpharm01 said:


> She didn't use the same surgeon that Laverne Cox used.



She transitioned in her late sixties, what do you guys expect? A surgeon can only work with what he has in front of him. Makes no difference how good a surgeon is. 

Laverne transitioned years ago, when she was a teenager, much easier to transition in your teens than in your 60's.


----------



## chowlover2

Loved Will & Grace last week when they were playing the guessing game. The clue was" We want to love her, but we can't." Dead!


----------



## bag-princess

[QUOTE="Sassys, post: 31729516, member: 7317"*]She transitioned in her late sixties, what do you guys expect?* A surgeon can only work with what he has in front of him. Makes no difference how good a surgeon is.

Laverne transitioned years ago, when she was a teenager, much easier to transition in your teens than in your 60's.[/QUOTE]


i expected him to look like an ugly old a$$ white woman!!!  i don't care how long ago laverne transitioned - she obviously wasn't bad looking to begin with and gets better with age.  bruce - not so much. at all.


----------



## Sassys

bag-princess said:


> [QUOTE="Sassys, post: 31729516, member: 7317"*]She transitioned in her late sixties, what do you guys expect?* A surgeon can only work with what he has in front of him. Makes no difference how good a surgeon is.
> 
> Laverne transitioned years ago, when she was a teenager, much easier to transition in your teens than in your 60's.




i expected him to look like an ugly old a$$ white woman!!!  i don't care how long ago laverne transitioned - she obviously wasn't bad looking to begin with and gets better with age.  bruce - not so much. at all.[/QUOTE]


----------



## bag-princess

Sassys said:


> i expected him to look like an ugly old a$$ white woman!!!  i don't care how long ago laverne transitioned - she obviously wasn't bad looking to begin with and gets better with age.  bruce - not so much. at all.









[/QUOTE]



   alright i am going now!!!


----------



## Vanilla Bean

Sasha2012 said:


> But on Monday, Caitlyn Jenner, 67, embarked on some retail therapy with friend Candis Cayne, 46, in Malibu, California.



That's not Candis - it's someone named Sophia Hutchins.


----------



## Esizzle

Were former Bruce and OJ ever friends like PMK and OJ's wife were? Does anyone know?


----------



## Sassys

Esizzle said:


> Were former Bruce and OJ ever friends like PMK and OJ's wife were? Does anyone know?



OJ was Robert's friend. They were friend's before he met Kris. I am sure she cut ties with OJ when she divorced Robert.


----------



## berrydiva

bag-princess said:


> i expected him to look like an ugly old a$$ white woman!!!  i don't care how long ago laverne transitioned - she obviously wasn't bad looking to begin with and gets better with age.  bruce - not so much. at all.


----------



## uhpharm01

bag-princess said:


> you ain't never lied!!!!  but then maybe after seeing his work he is booked up until the day before the end of time.  i don't know who Cait used but they need their license revoked!!!


And Cait needs a refund.


----------



## uhpharm01

Sassys said:


> She transitioned in her late sixties, what do you guys expect? A surgeon can only work with what he has in front of him. Makes no difference how good a surgeon is.
> 
> Laverne transitioned years ago, when she was a teenager, much easier to transition in your teens than in your 60's.


I can see your point. Well she could have at least got voice coach to sound feminine.


----------



## lanasyogamama

I've been meaning to post this since I went on vacation. I saw a signed copy of Caitlyn's book at a bookstore in Nantucket, and it doesn't look like she's adjusted her signature at all.


----------



## berrydiva

lanasyogamama said:


> I've been meaning to post this since I went on vacation. I saw a signed copy of Caitlyn's book at a bookstore in Nantucket, and it doesn't look like she's adjusted her signature at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3843693
> View attachment 3843694


That looks like short hand lol


----------



## Esizzle

lanasyogamama said:


> I've been meaning to post this since I went on vacation. I saw a signed copy of Caitlyn's book at a bookstore in Nantucket, and it doesn't look like she's adjusted her signature at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3843693
> View attachment 3843694


That looks like a five year old scribbling. She needs a more glamorous and intricate signature lol


----------



## berrydiva

What's comical about the cover is because we're made to perceive/relate to Caitlyn as a woman, they have airbrushed her to the gawds as would be done with any other woman. The constant imagery of what we're made to think a woman should look like is sad. Caitlyn is 70 yet the goal was to shave off at least 20 years on that cover.


----------



## Sassys

uhpharm01 said:


> I can see your point. Well she could have at least got voice coach to sound feminine.



Again, she transitioned in her 60's, half her life she has had that voice, you can't change your voice over night when you've had it since puberty.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Esizzle said:


> Were former Bruce and OJ ever friends like PMK and OJ's wife were? Does anyone know?



I can't remember which OJ documentary since I have seen so many but it was one where Kris was interviewed. She has pics of them (Bruce/OJ/Nicole/herself) on vacation.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

Sassys said:


> She transitioned in her late sixties, what do you guys expect? A surgeon can only work with what he has in front of him. Makes no difference how good a surgeon is.
> 
> Laverne transitioned years ago, when she was a teenager, much easier to transition in your teens than in your 60's.



I never thought she looked that great to begin with after the transition but right now this looks like Bruce with a wig. When Caitlyn made her debut I thought she looked a tad more feminine.


----------



## uhpharm01

berrydiva said:


> That looks like short hand lol


But that doesn't look like C for Cait. That's. B for Bruce.


----------



## rockhollow

BagOuttaHell said:


> I never thought she looked that great to begin with after the transition but right now this looks like Bruce with a wig. When Caitlyn made her debut I thought she looked a tad more feminine.



I agee, she looked much more woman like it seems when she first came out, and this last round of photos did look much more like Bruce in a dress and wig.
That dress was way to short.
As for her voice,  I'm sure it must be hard to change your voice after 60+ years, but she could work at softening it a bit. If your close your eyes and just listen to her speak, it's all Bruce.


----------



## sdkitty

BagOuttaHell said:


> I never thought she looked that great to begin with after the transition but right now this looks like Bruce with a wig. When Caitlyn made her debut I thought she looked a tad more feminine.


maybe when she first came out at Caitlyn you were looking at glamour shots whereas this is more candid?


----------



## berrydiva

uhpharm01 said:


> But that doesn't look like C for Cait. That's. B for Bruce.


She's still Bruce in her mind and doesn't want to let go of the privileged being Bruce.


----------



## Scully Piper

The body positive movement is totally lost in this thread.


----------



## BagOuttaHell

sdkitty said:


> maybe when she first came out at Caitlyn you were looking at glamour shots whereas this is more candid?



I never paid attention to those photo shopped to the gawds pics. But even in the candids it was better than this. Yeesh.


----------



## Sassys

lanasyogamama said:


> I've been meaning to post this since I went on vacation. I saw a signed copy of Caitlyn's book at a bookstore in Nantucket, and it doesn't look like she's adjusted her signature at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3843693
> View attachment 3843694



Weird that copy looks like that (me thinks its fake)







Bruce's signature


----------



## lanasyogamama

Sassys said:


> Weird that copy looks like that (me thinks its fake)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce's signature



That is weird!   Like I said, I saw it at a bookstore in Nantucket and took it at face value.  ‍♀️


----------



## skarsbabe

lanasyogamama said:


> That is weird!   Like I said, I saw it at a bookstore in Nantucket and took it at face value.  ‍♀️


LMAO I totally read that as MAN-tuck-et  --- dying of the reality that is jenner


----------



## pukasonqo

https://www.nostraightnews.com/caitlyn-jenner-blames-ellen-degeneres-unpopular-among-lgbt-people/

major eye roll from me


----------



## HandbagDiva354

Caitlyn wants to be Kim. No one gay or straight wants to see her clomping from Starbucks everyday hoping Paparazzi gets her picture. She can't blame Ellen.


----------



## bag-princess

HandbagDiva354 said:


> Caitlyn wants to be Kim. No one gay or straight wants to see her clomping from Starbucks everyday hoping Paparazzi gets her picture. She can't blame Ellen.



“Clomping from Starbucks” [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

DEAD DEAD DEAD


----------



## Jayne1

HandbagDiva354 said:


> Caitlyn wants to be Kim. No one gay or straight wants to see her clomping from Starbucks everyday hoping Paparazzi gets her picture. She can't blame Ellen.


Very good!


----------



## Bentley1

HandbagDiva354 said:


> Caitlyn wants to be Kim. No one gay or straight wants to see her clomping from Starbucks everyday hoping Paparazzi gets her picture. She can't blame Ellen.


Clomping from Starbucks lmaooo 

Such a perfect description


----------



## Esizzle

I had a dream last night that I was at a beach in Malibu and Caitlyn had called paps for her and running around on the beach in a red one piece Baywatch style. I woke up and was like wtf. 

It was not a pretty view


----------



## cdtracing

Esizzle said:


> I had a dream last night that I was at a beach in Malibu and Caitlyn had called paps for her and running around on the beach in a red one piece Baywatch style. I woke up and was like wtf.
> 
> It was not a pretty view


----------



## Ceeyahd

Esizzle said:


> I had a dream last night that I was at a beach in Malibu and Caitlyn had called paps for her and running around on the beach in a red one piece Baywatch style. I woke up and was like wtf.
> 
> It was not a pretty view



WTF...  What did you eat, read or watch before going to bed?


----------



## Esizzle

Ceeyahd said:


> WTF...  What did you eat, read or watch before going to bed?


Hahahahah I watched an episode of the Kardashians.


----------



## cdtracing

Esizzle said:


> I had a dream last night that I was at a beach in Malibu and Caitlyn had called paps for her and running around on the beach in a red one piece Baywatch style. I woke up and was like wtf.
> 
> It was not a pretty view



I wouldn't call that a dream....it would be more of a nightmare for me!!!   Did you eat too many Kartrashian Gummy bears before you went to sleep??


----------



## Ceeyahd

Esizzle said:


> Hahahahah I watched an episode of the Kardashians.


Well, there you go.


----------



## yajaira

uhpharm01 said:


> I can see your point. Well she could have at least got voice coach to sound feminine.


They have a procedure where they inject something directly into your voice box that makes you sound feminem you have to keep getting it though


----------



## uhpharm01

yajaira said:


> They have a procedure where they inject something directly into your voice box that makes you sound feminem you have to keep getting it though


Oh wow.  Interesting.


----------



## Esizzle

yajaira said:


> They have a procedure where they inject something directly into your voice box that makes you sound feminem you have to keep getting it though


Caitlin would definitely benefit from that. She sounds exactly like she did when she was Bruce.


----------



## WishList986

I mean, I've heard many women with naturally low or masculine voices. A persons voice doesn't exactly define who they are.


----------



## rockhollow

WARNING - This photo could be frightening - view at your own risk!


----------



## Scully Piper

rockhollow said:


> WARNING - This photo could be frightening - view at your own risk!
> 
> View attachment 3864077


Far from frightening. She looks happy and beautiful.


----------



## kkfiregirl

The swimsuit look isn’t that bad. Compared to Wendy Williams, a natural born ‘woman,’ Cait looks great!


----------



## WishList986

There's literally nothing wrong with that, let the woman live.


----------



## pixiejenna

I'm not a fan of anyone from this family but this pic honestly is bad. Just a old person in a swimsuit.


----------



## arnott

rockhollow said:


> WARNING - This photo could be frightening - view at your own risk!
> 
> View attachment 3864077



Who's disappointed it's not a bikini?


----------



## FreeSpirit71

Don't know why anyone would need to cover their eyes or think this is frightening. She looks fine.


----------



## bag-princess

rockhollow said:


> WARNING - This photo could be frightening - view at your own risk!
> 
> View attachment 3864077


----------



## HandbagDiva354

pixiejenna said:


> I'm not a fan of anyone from this family but this pic honestly is bad. Just a old person in a swimsuit.



Those feet tho [emoji102]


----------



## bag-mania

HandbagDiva354 said:


> Those feet tho [emoji102]



Oh hey now, those feet won the Olympic decathlon. They are literally gold medal winning feet. Show a little respect!


----------



## Florasun

Finally...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...er-settles-final-lawsuit-fatal-car-crash.html


----------



## tweegy

Wait, according to the article it said the authorities determined that Jenner was driving at an unsafe speed but didn’t seek charges.... hmph... that’s interesting tho 

I didn’t know that but... hmm is all I’ll say lol


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner and her constant companion Sophia Hutchins checked out a couple doing acro-yoga on their way to dinner in Los Angeles on Sunday.

At 68, the thrice-divorced father-of-six is 46 years older than the Pepperdine University senior, but the pair have been nearly inseparable as far back as June.

The former KUWTK patriarch dressed her 6ft2in figure in denim shorts and a pink sweater and sandals while the Washington State-born blonde wore nude sandals with white skinny jeans and a black jacket.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...mpanion-Sophia-Hutchins-LA.html#ixzz5CCu11gBV


----------



## bag-princess

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner and her constant companion Sophia Hutchins checked out a couple doing acro-yoga on their way to dinner in Los Angeles on Sunday.
> 
> *At 68, the thrice-divorced father-of-six is 46 years older than the Pepperdine University senior, but the pair have been nearly inseparable as far back as June.*
> 
> The former KUWTK patriarch dressed her 6ft2in figure in denim shorts and a pink sweater and sandals while the Washington State-born blonde wore nude sandals with white skinny jeans and a black jacket.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...mpanion-Sophia-Hutchins-LA.html#ixzz5CCu11gBV



46 years older!! and inseperable!?  since june.  really.


----------



## WishList986

Seems like an interesting couple.


----------



## kkfiregirl

I think they’re just shopping pals.


----------



## RueMonge

Well Caitlyn would look so much better if she had pants on like her pal.


----------



## Irishgal

I’m sure the only thing her “constant companion” is inseparable with is Caitlyn’s wallet.


----------



## Jayne1

What's in it for the blonde?  What does she want?


----------



## sdkitty

Jayne1 said:


> What's in it for the blonde?  What does she want?


money or the lifestyle that money can buy?


----------



## Sasha2012

They enjoyed a casual dinner date together in Malibu.

But Caitlyn Jenner and her trans gal pal Sophie Hutchins, opted not to go to the celebrity haunts around the popular Malibu Country Mart.

Instead they drove a few miles north to Zuma Beach to Kristy's Village Cafe overlooking the Pacific Ocean.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ook-cute-casual-date-night.html#ixzz5DRHOPAqc


----------



## bagsforme

So Sophie is trans as well??


----------



## Irishgal

Well I’m about to do something I never thought I would do. I gotta say I like her dress. For summer, out around the beach it’s perfect. But for me not her [emoji23][emoji23][emoji6]


----------



## TC1

"opted to avoid celebrity haunts" photos by Splash News


----------



## scarlet555

.


----------



## LemonDrop

There is this comedian on Instagram kyledunnigan1 he does impressions of Caitlyn on the phone with Kim, Khloé and Kourtney asking for girl advice and such.  Cracks me up.


----------



## Sasha2012

bagsforme said:


> So Sophie is trans as well??


Yes.

https://pagesix.com/2017/11/07/whos-the-21-year-old-thats-been-spotted-with-caitlyn-jenner/

Caitlyn Jenner‘s rumored arm candy Sophia Hutchins has left fans wondering about the reality star’s relationship status.

Although recent photos of the pair have sparked rumors of a romance, a rep for Jenner confirmed to Page Six on Tuesday that the two are “just friends.”

Most recently, Jenner, 64, and Hutchins, 21, were seen carpooling to Cait’s daughter Kendall Jenner’s 22nd birthday party together on Thursday night. They were also spotted in Mexico together last month.

Hutchins is a student at California’s Pepperdine University and is also transgender.

According to the university’s student newspaper, Hutchins underwent the transition process while enrolled at the school, and cited Jenner’s “20/20” special with Diane Sawyer on ABC as an inspiration, saying in December 2016 that the interview “made it so much more real.”

Hutchins’ Instagram account is filled with beach pics, professional portraits and snaps similar to those of Jenner’s social media star kids.


----------



## bag-princess

Report: Caitlyn Jenner Is Set To Marry College Student 47 Years Her Junior



According to Radar Online, Jenner, 68, is set to marry trans woman and student Sophia Hutchins, 21.



https://bet.us/2rgDkz3


----------



## bisousx

I guess she would’ve divorced and married some 20 year old, whether it’s Bruce or Caitlyn.


----------



## DC-Cutie

My question may sound strange and hopefully it will not offend anyone (as that's not my intention) - since Sophia and Caitlyn are trans people that date/marry people like them, is that an indication of an internal struggle that they really are men that are still attracted to women?
I guess in my hetero mind, I would think that if you're now a woman you'd want to be with a man and vice versa.


----------



## Ceeyahd

DC-Cutie said:


> My question may sound strange and hopefully it will not offend anyone (as that's not my intention) - since Sophia and Caitlyn are trans people that date/marry people like them, is that an indication of an internal struggle that they really are men that are still attracted to women?
> I guess in my hetero mind, I would think that if you're now a woman you'd want to be with a man and vice versa.


Transgender doesn't dictate what gender one is attracted to. Caitlyn isn't interested in men.


----------



## tweegy

bag-princess said:


> Report: Caitlyn Jenner Is Set To Marry College Student 47 Years Her Junior
> 
> 
> 
> According to Radar Online, Jenner, 68, is set to marry trans woman and student Sophia Hutchins, 21.
> 
> 
> 
> https://bet.us/2rgDkz3


Oh!....Ummm...hmmm..


----------



## RueMonge

DC-Cutie said:


> My question may sound strange and hopefully it will not offend anyone (as that's not my intention) - since Sophia and Caitlyn are trans people that date/marry people like them, is that an indication of an internal struggle that they really are men that are still attracted to women?
> I guess in my hetero mind, I would think that if you're now a woman you'd want to be with a man and vice versa.



I was trying to figure this out also, but didn't want to offend. (Meaning, I don't wish to offend the non celebrity who may be in a similar position)  
Both were outwardly men and now are outwardly women and are attracted to each other. It could happen. Or Cait could still be looking for a headline story.


----------



## berrydiva

DC-Cutie said:


> My question may sound strange and hopefully it will not offend anyone (as that's not my intention) - since Sophia and Caitlyn are trans people that date/marry people like them, is that an indication of an internal struggle that they really are men that are still attracted to women?
> I guess in my hetero mind, I would think that if you're now a woman you'd want to be with a man and vice versa.


I have a friend who transition from female to male and never stopped dating females (he's married now) - prior to the transition, when he was a she, she identified as gay. I have another friend who transitioned from male to female and now dates men but never had previously - prior to the transition, when she was a he, he identified as straight. Anyway, my understanding is that being trans may not always be a factor in sexual attraction. 

However, I feel like Caitlyn is still quite confused. I'm just assuming that she probably doesn't have any attraction to men.


----------



## skarsbabe

I was gonna say the same thing - essentially its two men getting married that are both now women. What a total mindf...!


----------



## CeeJay

Well, and again .. not trying to offend anyone, Caitlyn still has her 'man' parts, correct?  Not sure about the girlfriend, but I do recall sometime ago where (when still Bruce) he said that while he identified as a woman, he still preferred women.  Only 1 time did he indicated that maybe he should look to date men because he "wanted to be taken care of" .. and that brought about a LOT of negative press.  I don't really care any which way, if it makes them happy, then fine.  However, just to be on the safe side, he should likely have a good pre-nup just in case!


----------



## DC-Cutie

CeeJay said:


> Well, and again .. not trying to offend anyone, Caitlyn still has her 'man' parts, correct?  Not sure about the girlfriend, but I do recall sometime ago where (when still Bruce) he said that while he identified as a woman, he still preferred women.  Only 1 time did he indicated that maybe he should look to date men because he "wanted to be taken care of" .. and that brought about a LOT of negative press.  I don't really care any which way, if it makes them happy, then fine.  However, just to be on the safe side, he should likely have a good pre-nup just in case!


I thought she had gender reassignment surgery?


----------



## lanasyogamama

DC-Cutie said:


> I thought she had gender reassignment surgery?


She did.  She was "tired of tucking the damn thing".


----------



## simone72

Just saw on Instagram Caitlyn will not be attending Brody Jenner’s wedding in Bali not sure about details ?? Anyone know?


----------



## absolutpink

simone72 said:


> Just saw on Instagram Caitlyn will not be attending Brody Jenner’s wedding in Bali not sure about details ?? Anyone know?



I read that it's because she has an event that she can't get out of. Sounds odd to me, what event could be more important than your child's wedding?


----------



## Jayne1

I read Jenner had a prior lucrative commitment which is obviously more important than attending her son's wedding.  Never was a good parent, still isn't.


----------



## redney

Jayne1 said:


> I read Jenner had a prior lucrative commitment which is obviously more important than attending her son's wedding.  Never was a good parent, still isn't.


Brody and his wife to be are probably breathing a sigh of relief.


----------



## tweegy

Jayne1 said:


> I read Jenner had a prior lucrative commitment which is obviously more important than attending her son's wedding.  Never was a good parent, still isn't.



So weird that her and Bruce have such similar traits isn’t it... when she came on the scene they pushed her as a entirely different person in the same body and mind....


----------



## bag-princess

tweegy said:


> So weird that her and Bruce have such similar traits isn’t it... when she came on the scene they pushed her as a entirely different person in the same body and mind....



you can change the outside all you want to!  the inside will remain the same no matter what unless you work on changing that too!


----------



## TC1

lanasyogamama said:


> She did.  She was "tired of tucking the damn thing".


I know it doesn't matter to most..but I've heard rumours that that's a lie that was just put out there to sell the book. People kept asking Caitlyn if she had THE surgery and she would just say "you have to read the book to find out" but hasn't ever spoken of it. I don't know WHAT to believe, nor do I care either way. These Jenners just have me suspicious of anything you read or hear.


----------



## tweegy

TC1 said:


> I know it doesn't matter to most..but I've heard rumours that that's a lie that was just put out there to sell the book. People kept asking Caitlyn if she had THE surgery and she would just say "you have to read the book to find out" but hasn't ever spoken of it. I don't know WHAT to believe, nor do I care either way. These Jenners just have me suspicious of anything you read or hear.


I think she did tho. On KUWTK I swore Kris was crying cause Caitlyn went and had the surgery and Kris was upset she was the last to know everything. But could have been for the show so who knows.


----------



## Jayne1

tweegy said:


> I think she did tho. On KUWTK I swore Kris was crying cause Caitlyn went and had the surgery and Kris was upset she was the last to know everything. But could have been for the show so who knows.


Kris can turn the tears on in a split second, so we can't know with her.


----------



## Sasha2012

Caitlyn Jenner and Sophia Hutchins donned matching monochromatic outfits on Tuesday to a fashion show in New York City.

The 68-year-old reality star wore a grey plaid dress along with a complementary coat to the alice + olivia presentation at Pier 59 Studios as part of New York Fashion Week.

She completed her outfit with black heels and had her brown hair down around her shoulders.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...inseparable-attend-alice-olivia-New-York.html


----------



## bag-princess

sigh..............why does he still look like a man parading around in women's clothes???


----------



## Jayne1

Maybe she should stick to pant suits.


----------



## uhpharm01

Sasha2012 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner and Sophia Hutchins donned matching monochromatic outfits on Tuesday to a fashion show in New York City.
> 
> The 68-year-old reality star wore a grey plaid dress along with a complementary coat to the alice + olivia presentation at Pier 59 Studios as part of New York Fashion Week.
> 
> She completed her outfit with black heels and had her brown hair down around her shoulders.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...inseparable-attend-alice-olivia-New-York.html


 Not cute.


----------



## DC-Cutie

I'm trying to work on being nicer, using kind words.... that's a beautiful color blue wall


----------



## RueMonge

I think this look is better than others we've seen and tasteful even.


----------



## chowlover2

I think Sophia looks like Ivanka *****.


----------



## Rouge H

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm trying to work on being nicer, using kind words.... that's a beautiful color blue wall



It’s a lovely blue wall.


----------



## bag-princess

DC-Cutie said:


> I'm trying to work on being nicer, using kind words.... that's a beautiful color blue wall




   bless your heart!


----------



## kemilia

chowlover2 said:


> I think Sophia looks like Ivanka *****.


I thought too, with a bit of Kim thrown in.


----------



## V0N1B2

chowlover2 said:


> I think Sophia looks like Ivanka *****.


Poor thing...


----------



## simone72

chowlover2 said:


> I think Sophia looks like Ivanka *****.


Omg I was just about to post that !!


----------



## Jayne1

chowlover2 said:


> I think Sophia looks like Ivanka *****.


You mean Sophia requested Ivanka's surgeon to use the same procedure on her.  It worked on Ivanka, I think.


----------



## chowlover2

Jayne1 said:


> You mean Sophia requested Ivanka's surgeon to use the same procedure on her.  It worked on Ivanka, I think.


----------



## VickyB

LMAO - I thought that was Ivanka *****.


----------



## b_illy

chowlover2 said:


> I think Sophia looks like Ivanka *****.



Haaaa! I though I was looking at Ivanka and Melania at first glance... I find Melania has a masculine look about her so maybe that’s why...


----------



## pukasonqo

b_illy said:


> Haaaa! I though I was looking at Ivanka and Melania at first glance... I find Melania has a masculine look about her so maybe that’s why...



maybe they could star in a tv comedy playing ivanka and melania or hire themselves as look alikes for parties, weddings, etc


----------



## chowlover2

pukasonqo said:


> maybe they could star in a tv comedy playing ivanka and melania or hire themselves as look alikes for parties, weddings, etc


----------



## lanasyogamama

I’m dying [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Jayne1

Very cute!


----------



## Longchamp

Caitlyn Jenner's house burned to the ground in the Malibu fires today. 
I heard the Cavs are sending a cavalry out to Brentwood to rescue Lebron from any potential fire damage. 
I think he would rather take his chances at this point.


----------



## uhpharm01

Longchamp said:


> Caitlyn Jenner's house burned to the ground in the Malibu fires today.
> I heard the Cavs are sending a cavalry out to Brentwood to rescue Lebron from any potential fire damage.
> I think he would rather take his chances at this point.


Oh Wow.  It's like every year that California has fires.


----------



## A1aGypsy

I can’t even imagine how horrible it must be to know everything you own is going up in smoke and there is nothing you can do about it. I know she is safe and that’s all that matters but to lose your home and everyone has things that are priceless due to their sentimental nature. Those things can never be replaced.


----------



## kateincali

Longchamp said:


> Caitlyn Jenner's house burned to the ground in the Malibu fires today.
> I heard the Cavs are sending a cavalry out to Brentwood to rescue Lebron from any potential fire damage.
> I think he would rather take his chances at this point.


It hasn't burned down
http://www.tmz.com/2018/11/10/caitlyn-jenner-house-malibu-survives-california-wildfire/


----------



## bag-princess

A1aGypsy said:


> I can’t even imagine how horrible it must be to know everything you own is going up in smoke and there is nothing you can do about it. I know she is safe and that’s all that matters* but to lose your home and everyone has things that are priceless due to their sentimental nature. Those things can never be replaced*.




exactly!!!  which is why i SMDH at people that keep going back to the same area over and over.  this little old couple was going on about how they had escaped the previous years fires and had so much family keepsakes and things from the kids. and how it wasn't the home itself but what was inside.  this time they lost it all!  as you said those things are gone and never can be replaced so after the second time of barely escaping with it - i would have been done!   but there are people keep saying they are going to go back and rebuild of course yet again.


----------



## kemilia

bag-princess said:


> exactly!!!  which is why i SMDH at people that keep going back to the same area over and over.  this little old couple was going on about how they had escaped the previous years fires and had so much family keepsakes and things from the kids. and how it wasn't the home itself but what was inside.  this time they lost it all!  as you said those things are gone and never can be replaced so after the second time of barely escaping with it - i would have been done!   but there are people keep saying they are going to go back and rebuild of course yet again of course.


Double exactly! 

Same with those living where hurricanes hit year after year, though dealing with those would be way better than those horrid fires (imo). And now (assuming the fires ever end) there will be the mudslides taking whatever is left standing. Humans are living where they really shouldn't be living--I guess the beauty of the forests, mountains, canyons, beaches is too much to say "no!" to.


----------



## A1aGypsy

I think those are two separate issues though. Sometimes it is sheer silly stubbornness but many of the people (not Paradise per say) who live in the paths of natural disasters (like hurricanes) don’t have another option.  Land is cheap where it is dangerous to live. And sometimes it has nothing to do with beauty and everything to do with poverty.


----------



## LibbyRuth

A1aGypsy said:


> I think those are two separate issues though. Sometimes it is sheer silly stubbornness but many of the people (not Paradise per say) who live in the paths of natural disasters (like hurricanes) don’t have another option.  Land is cheap where it is dangerous to live. And sometimes it has nothing to do with beauty and everything to do with poverty.


Well said.  With natural disasters, there's also really not a way of determining where things will keep coming back to the same spot. Most areas of the country have SOME sort of natural disaster to contend with, whether it's fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, or floods. I have family that live in a part of Florida that for a few years got hit every single year with a hurricane. Then, they went about 12 years without a single one, and over the past two years have had a few they've had to watch.


----------



## Ceeyahd

LibbyRuth said:


> Well said.  With natural disasters, there's also really not a way of determining where things will keep coming back to the same spot. Most areas of the country have SOME sort of natural disaster to contend with, whether it's fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, or floods. I have family that live in a part of Florida that for a few years got hit every single year with a hurricane. Then, they went about 12 years without a single one, and over the past two years have had a few they've had to watch.



It's not a 'natural' disaster when it's been determined that your local power company's equipment and/or negligent personnel causes the fire to ignite. Most importantly the majority of the state of California cities are surrounded by mountains and hills. The power companies should be carrying power underground. Lately, every wind event leads to a major fire, makes me wonder how negligent they're being in general. The Woolsey fire cause hasn't been determined, yet the power company has already stated they had probable fire incident in the area where the fire started. The cost of last year's Thomas fire has been determined to be their fault, and cost of the lawsuits will be passed on to us consumers.


----------



## A1aGypsy

Oh, I agree wildfires are generally man made but the comment up stream was about people who live in hurricane zones...


----------



## Ceeyahd

A1aGypsy said:


> Oh, I agree wildfires are generally man made but the comment up stream was about people who live in hurricane zones...



Ok. I read as folks living in potential hazardous areas in general.


----------



## Sasha2012

Vanity Fair Oscar Party hosted by Radhika Jones at Wallis Annenberg Center for the Performing Arts on February 24, 2019 in Beverly Hills, California.











 27th annual Elton John AIDS Foundation Academy Awards Viewing Party celebrating EJAF and the 91st Academy Awards on February 24, 2019 in West Hollywood, California.








via Zimbio


----------



## buzzytoes

I have a really hard time believing that girl has any feelings for Caitlyn.


----------



## Jayne1

buzzytoes said:


> I have a really hard time believing that girl has any feelings for Caitlyn.


Me too.


----------



## lanasyogamama

I think she has feelings for being photographed.


----------



## White Orchid

And here I thought Tori Spelling’s boob job was bad...


----------



## FreeSpirit71

I didn't realise Frederick's of Hollywood did evening attire.


----------



## haute okole

Lawd have MERCY, NO!  This one just announced her candidacy for California Governor.  Grand Ole Party, no doubt!  Hahahaha!  This will be a Shiz Show!  I am moving.


----------



## limom

While I don’t support her party, she has been involved in politics long enough to be a feasible candidate.
PS: how will the accident be explained away?


----------



## haute okole

limom said:


> While I don’t support her party, she has been involved in politics long enough to be a feasible candidate.
> PS: how will the accident be explained away?


No way to explain that away.  She killed someone because of negligence and was never charged.  It was big news here in LA and there were pictures of the poor lady and her scared reaction moments after impact, Pagesix.com Horrible miscarriage of justice.


----------



## sdkitty

haute okole said:


> Lawd have MERCY, NO!  This one just announced her candidacy for California Governor.  Grand Ole Party, no doubt!  Hahahaha!  This will be a Shiz Show!  I am moving.


that's ludicrous


----------



## limom

Maybe PMK can be in charge of the PR.
Good luck California.


----------



## redney

Naw. No credentials or experience. Good way to get attention to self before the primaries though. PMK must be behind this.


----------



## purseinsanity

haute okole said:


> Lawd have MERCY, NO!  This one just announced her candidacy for California Governor.  Grand Ole Party, no doubt!  Hahahaha!  This will be a Shiz Show!  I am moving.


I've been looking to move for a couple years now, just can't figure out where!  This state is a $hitshow.


----------



## haute okole

redney said:


> Naw. No credentials or experience. Good way to get attention to self before the primaries though. PMK must be behind this.


Oh FFS!  I would rather set my money and hair on fire.


----------



## limom

She is already fundraising something fierce.
Is this a quick money grab or is she looking for the longest con?
Look at the hires.


			https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/04/caitlyn-jenner-is-running-for-governor-of-california.html


----------



## Coco.lover

CA deserves better


----------



## purseinsanity

limom said:


> She is already fundraising something fierce.
> Is this a quick money grab or is she looking for the longest con?
> Look at the hires.
> 
> 
> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/04/caitlyn-jenner-is-running-for-governor-of-california.html


Is Kim, with her vast knowledge of the law, her campaign manager?


----------



## haute okole

limom said:


> She is already fundraising something fierce.
> Is this a quick money grab or is she looking for the longest con?
> Look at the hires.
> 
> 
> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/04/caitlyn-jenner-is-running-for-governor-of-california.html


What a bunch of freaks and/or crooks.  Here is Jenner’s campaign manager, Brad Parscale in a 9/2020 arrest.  Winning!


----------



## V0N1B2

haute okole said:


> What a bunch of freaks and/or crooks.  Here is Jenner’s campaign manager, Brad Parscale in a 9/2020 arrest.  Winning!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5063936


Wait. HE’S her campaign manager?


----------



## haute okole

V0N1B2 said:


> Wait. HE’S her campaign manager?


Yes, indeed! Wanna buy a $25 Caitlyn mug?  Probably causes 3rd degree burns if you warm up your coffee in the microwave.


----------



## Jayne1

Sonny Bono, Clint Eastwood, Tr*mp, Jesse Ventura, but more specifically for CA, Schwarzenegger, Reagan and now Jenner?


----------



## LittleStar88

Lawd have mercy!  

I'd happily leave CA, but having a hard time finding a place that I like better (politics aside).


----------



## purseproblm

Good luck CA. Par scale is involved there must be some grift. Hes got all those boats and stuff to pay for.


----------



## haute okole

V0N1B2 said:


> Wait. HE’S her campaign manager?


Sorry, I misread some of the press, Parscale was the Donald’s campaign manager and is now working on Caitlyn’s campaign in some capacity.  However, I do not know if he is the campaign manager.


----------



## limom

*She’s assembled a team of prominent GOP operatives including Tony Fabrizio, the top pollster on Donald *****’s 2016 and 2020 campaigns, and Steven Cheung, a former ***** White House and campaign communications hand who worked on Arnold Schwarzenegger’s successful 2003 recall campaign …



*****’s former campaign manager Brad Parscale, a personal friend of Jenner’s, has helped her assemble her team but doesn’t plan to take an official title on the campaign. 
She’s assembled a team of prominent GOP operatives including Tony Fabrizio, the top pollster on Donald *****’s 2016 and 2020 campaigns, and Steven Cheung, a former ***** White House and campaign communications hand who worked on Arnold Schwarzenegger’s successful 2003 recall campaign …



*****’s former campaign manager Brad Parscale, a personal friend of Jenner’s, has helped her assemble her team but doesn’t plan to take an official title on the campaign.*


She is quite clever. She is pandering to people who are taking away LGBQT rights and is hoping that her opposition will not dare to criticize her.
 I am here with popcorn at the ready...


----------



## haute okole

limom said:


> *She’s assembled a team of prominent GOP operatives including Tony Fabrizio, the top pollster on Donald *****’s 2016 and 2020 campaigns, and Steven Cheung, a former ***** White House and campaign communications hand who worked on Arnold Schwarzenegger’s successful 2003 recall campaign …
> 
> 
> 
> *****’s former campaign manager Brad Parscale, a personal friend of Jenner’s, has helped her assemble her team but doesn’t plan to take an official title on the campaign.
> She’s assembled a team of prominent GOP operatives including Tony Fabrizio, the top pollster on Donald *****’s 2016 and 2020 campaigns, and Steven Cheung, a former ***** White House and campaign communications hand who worked on Arnold Schwarzenegger’s successful 2003 recall campaign …
> 
> 
> 
> *****’s former campaign manager Brad Parscale, a personal friend of Jenner’s, has helped her assemble her team but doesn’t plan to take an official title on the campaign.*
> 
> 
> She is quite clever. She is pandering to people who are taking away LGBQT rights and is hoping that her opposition will not dare to criticize her.
> I am here with popcorn at the ready...


Like we need more political circus.  Just waiting for the MeAgain, or better yet, Cali Harry.  I’ll join you with the popcorn and extra squirts of fake butter.


----------



## Coco.lover

First off I doubt her party and family will even support her, secondly wasn't Cait involved in a car accident that caused the death of two people?


----------



## limom

Coco.lover said:


> First off I doubt her party and family will even support her, secondly wasn't Cait involved in a car accident that caused the death of two people?


It is a con.
First the K were involved in fake churches, now politics (remember Kanye?).


----------



## OriginalBalenciaga

Brad Parscale?


----------



## purseinsanity

Why do celebrities think they know better how to govern than the rest of us?  And why do idiots keep voting for them?  I don't know anything about Matthew McConaughey's stances, but he's running for governor of Texas??


----------



## haute okole

Coco.lover said:


> First off I doubt her party and family will even support her, secondly wasn't Cait involved in a car accident that caused the death of two people?


Yes, the lady he rear ended died at the scene.  Page Six posted a picture of the actual moment of impact and your can actually see the frighten look on the lady's face.  To make matters worse, Bruce's car pushed the lady's car over the center line which caused a head on collision with a family.  That caused serious injuries to that family with children.  Bruce failed to take responsibility and actually filed suit against paparazzi that were NOT involved in the collision.  Paparazzi were across the street taking pictures.  Right...nothing is his fault in his delusional mind.  Sadly, police failed to charge him with a crime.


----------



## limom

She was pursued in civil court and settled for $800k.
Wasnt She speeding and pulling a trailer at the time?








						Caitlyn Jenner to Pay $800,000 in 2015 Fatal Car Crash Settlement
					

Caitlyn Jenner will pay an $800,000 to five members of the same family, according to court documents




					people.com


----------



## bag-princess

her fellow trans members are not happy about her saying this -










						Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls shouldn't get to participate on girls' sports teams because it 'just isn't fair'
					

"This is a question of fairness," said Caitlyn Jenner, who in 1976 won gold at the Olympics. Trans advocates say these bills are harmful and useless.




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## sdkitty

LittleStar88 said:


> Lawd have mercy!
> 
> I'd happily leave CA, but having a hard time finding a place that I like better (politics aside).


we considered AZ but decided to stay in CA....now home prices in AZ have gone way up, probably due in part to all the CA people moving there


----------



## DeMonica

bag-princess said:


> her fellow trans members are not happy about her saying this -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls shouldn't get to participate on girls' sports teams because it 'just isn't fair'
> 
> 
> "This is a question of fairness," said Caitlyn Jenner, who in 1976 won gold at the Olympics. Trans advocates say these bills are harmful and useless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com


Probably not, but this time she might be right.


----------



## redney

bag-princess said:


> her fellow trans members are not happy about her saying this -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls shouldn't get to participate on girls' sports teams because it 'just isn't fair'
> 
> 
> "This is a question of fairness," said Caitlyn Jenner, who in 1976 won gold at the Olympics. Trans advocates say these bills are harmful and useless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com


As they should be upset. As an aunt to a wonderful, smart transgendered school aged child, this breaks my heart. School sports are much more than winning a trophy and being "the best." School sports also teach teamwork, trust, reliance on each other, how to play fairly and win and lose graciously. I wish people could see past who has a certain body part or not. Kids these days are far more accepting than many, many adults.

ETA: Back to Caitlyn, I read an article somewhere her sons Brody and 2 other Bs, said they don't think she's qualified and according to the article (can't find it now) don't plan to vote for her.


----------



## bag-princess

redney said:


> As they should be upset. As an aunt to a wonderful, smart transgendered school aged child, this breaks my heart. School sports are much more than winning a trophy and being "the best." School sports also teach teamwork, trust, reliance on each other, how to play fairly and win and lose graciously. I wish people could see past who has a certain body part or not. Kids these days are far more accepting than many, many adults.
> 
> ETA: *Back to Caitlyn, I read an article somewhere her sons Brody and 2 other Bs, said they don't think she's qualified and according to the article (can't find it now) don't plan to vote for her.*




they are preaching to the choir!  i have yet to see anyone say they are voting for her and i can't wait to see the election results!


----------



## redney

bag-princess said:


> they are preaching to the choir!  i have yet to see anyone say they are voting for her and i can't wait to see the election results!


If she even makes it past the primaries. I can't even see that happening.


----------



## limom

I welcome my trans sisters in everything but competitive sports teams. This is not a competition. It is total domination and unfair.
Are trans boys clamoring to get onto men’s teams?

Back to Caitlyn, is the California governor even close to being recalled?


----------



## LittleStar88

limom said:


> I welcome my trans sisters in everything but competitive sports teams. This is not a competition. It is total domination and unfair.
> Are trans boys clamoring to get onto men’s teams?
> 
> Back to Caitlyn, is the California governor even close to being recalled?



I feel that Caitlin said what she said about trans girls partially out of getting voters/support and partially from competitive sports experience.  

As for the recall... Appears there will be a vote.









						Are Californians Still Mad at Gavin Newsom?
					

Their rage fueled a recall, but will it last?




					slate.com
				




California is already a hot, steamy mess on so many levels. May as well add this to the pile.


----------



## Swanky

Hey, captain obvious popping in!  No political discussions/comments are allowed at tPF


----------



## bag-princess

she has labeled herself a "compassionate disrupter" in her first tv ad!


----------



## limom

wow some campaign slogan!


----------



## poopsie

limom said:


> I welcome my trans sisters in everything but competitive sports teams. This is not a competition. It is total domination and unfair.
> Are trans boys clamoring to get onto men’s teams?
> 
> Back to Caitlyn, is the California governor even close to being recalled?



It boggles the mind that people can't see past their agendas at how much of a disadvantage this puts RGs
Title IX was a hard fought victory for females. I know some referred to it as 'separate but equal' but at the time it was crucial. 
IMO the only fair thing would be for trans  to have their own sports. 
I started serious weight training back in 1981. I was one of only a handful of females at the Gold's Gym here. The guys were cool about it and very helpful. Eventually I got to benching 100------good as I didn't weigh much more than that at the time. But I could see that I was NEVER going to be on the same level as a guy my size. Try as I might it just wasn't going to happen. Biology isn't fair. End of story.

oh and before anyone gets their huff on RG is what all my gay friends have called me for the last 40 years. It is merely an observation that I am a real girl. No other connotations.

Back to Caitlyn, God I hope so! I sure signed enough petitions!


----------



## Luvbolide

redney said:


> As they should be upset. As an aunt to a wonderful, smart transgendered school aged child, this breaks my heart. School sports are much more than winning a trophy and being "the best." School sports also teach teamwork, trust, reliance on each other, how to play fairly and win and lose graciously. I wish people could see past who has a certain body part or not. Kids these days are far more accepting than many, many adults.
> 
> ETA: Back to Caitlyn, I read an article somewhere her sons Brody and 2 other Bs, said they don't think she's qualified and according to the article (can't find it now) don't plan to vote for her.




I totally agree with your thoughts.   One of my closest friends and I have talked about exactly this --

School sports are much more than winning a trophy and being "the best." School sports also teach teamwork, trust, reliance on each other, how to play fairly and win and lose graciously.

When I was young (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), I participated in sports for years.  My friend did not do anything team-related when she was growing up.  But now, as adults, we talk about the benefits of sports and teams and these exact things that you set forth, and how they apply to grown-up lives in the workplace, etc.

A lot of kids participate in sport activities and teams when young and it would be a shame for any of them to lose the value of the experience.  Worse, I think, would be forcing them to publicly sit out because they are trans.  Years on, it won't make a difference who/which teams "won".

I have other thoughts on the subject, but they are probably too political for this forum, so I will stop now...


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## Swanky

My daughter was a Club level volleyball player; she opted out, choosing not to play collegiate.  But MANY of her friends, and my friend’s kids, are now D1 volleyball players, some indoor and some beach, there’s no way these girls could compete…
Can you imagine, as a female, competing with Bruce (Caitlyn) Jenner?


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## limom

Swanky said:


> My daughter was a Club level volleyball player, she opted out, choosing not to play collegiate, but MANY of her friends, and my friends kids, are now D1 volleyball players, some indoor and some beach… there’s no way these girls could compete…
> Can you imagine, as a female, competing with Bruce (Caitlyn) Jenner?


It is impossible. Plus,  there have been many accidents in contact sports like rugby, boxing Etc.
How about the girls who need scholarships to attend college?
There are just so many spots available for theD1 schools.
So they trained their whole lives and here come someone who is biologically and physiologically stronger and they lose every contests?
Trans athletes need to compete with their peers.
Title nine was instituted for a reason.
This type of entitlement is detrimental to the cause imo.
Now, if the child was in team her own life, she would understand that she has an unfair advantage compared to her teammates.
My son was a competitive runner, not one of the girls even the one who later on qualified for the Olympics were as fast.


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## OriginalBalenciaga




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## limom

OriginalBalenciaga said:


>



Science is as accurate as the person who performs the experiment. 
There are biological markers. 
Plus, all those new labels being inflicted upon women who supported trans women do not help.
I am all for supporting everyone and call you whatever make you happy.
You need do the same. I have been a girl and a woman for fifty plus years.
I have feelings too.


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## bisousx

Swanky said:


> My daughter was a Club level volleyball player, she opted out, choosing not to play collegiate, but MANY of her friends, and my friends kids, are now D1 volleyball players, some indoor and some beach… there’s no way these girls could compete…
> *Can you imagine, as a female, competing with Bruce (Caitlyn) Jenner?*



Caitlyn knows this. Thankfully, she hasn’t forgotten even being surrounded by Hollywood influence.


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## limom

bisousx said:


> Caitlyn knows this. Thankfully, she hasn’t forgotten even being surrounded by Hollywood influence.


This is what true acceptance is all about.
Trans women can be conservative too.


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## Irishgal

purseinsanity said:


> I've been looking to move for a couple years now, just can't figure out where!  This state is a $hitshow.


Girl I left my native state of California 5 years ago and never looked back. Looks nothing like the great place I grew up in. I’m close to Nashville now on 46 breathtaking acres and couldn’t be happier.


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## limom

Irishgal said:


> Girl I left my native state of California 5 years ago and never looked back. Looks nothing like the great place I grew up in. I’m close to Nashville now on 46 breathtaking acres and couldn’t be happier.


Do you miss the ocean?


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## Irishgal

limom said:


> Do you miss the ocean?


Not really. I grew up in Newport Beach and spent so much time at the beach over the years that I’m ok without it. Plus I go back when I need a fix.


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## limom

Did she or didn't she?








						Records show Caitlyn Jenner voted in the 2020 election despite claiming to CNN that she went golfing instead
					

"And so it was Election Day and I just couldn't get excited about it. And I just wound up going to play golf," Jenner told CNN.




					www.yahoo.com


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## sdkitty

limom said:


> This is what true acceptance is all about.
> Trans women can be conservative too.


IMO it's an understatement to say her running for governor is a joke.  yes, she may be a ********** but how many conservative men are gonna vote for a trans person?  and the trans community doesn't like her stance on trans women in sports.  Last night there was a clip on TV of her talking about the last election.  she said she wasn't interested enough in anything on the ballot to vote.  she played golf on election day.  that says it all.  I guess this governor thing is just attention seeking.


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## limom

sdkitty said:


> IMO it's an understatement to say her running for governor is a joke.  yes, she may be a ********** but how many conservative men are gonna vote for a trans person?  and the trans community doesn't like her stance on trans women in sports.  Last night there was a clip on TV of her talking about the last election.  she said she wasn't interested enough in anything on the ballot to vote.  she played golf on election day.  that says it all.  I guess this governor thing is just attention seeking.


They would be voting for Their wallets. The end.


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## sdkitty

limom said:


> Did she or didn't she?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Records show Caitlyn Jenner voted in the 2020 election despite claiming to CNN that she went golfing instead
> 
> 
> "And so it was Election Day and I just couldn't get excited about it. And I just wound up going to play golf," Jenner told CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com


she's ridiculous
what's the problem?  she went and changed her gender and now it's not that unusual so she has to try to find some way to get attention?  go back to being bruce....that will be a story for a couple of weeks until the next celeb news story breaks


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## sdkitty

limom said:


> They would be voting for Their wallets. The end.


they can find another conservative to vote for.  the most recently departed mayor or san diego is running


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## Swanky

Soooooo, we can't discuss politics.


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## limom

Swanky said:


> Soooooo, we can't discuss politics.


To think that Caitlyn is now mixed with Politics. What a time to be alive


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## bag-princess

Caitlyn Jenner Swears Off Beverly Hills Hotel For Denying Her Lunch Over Fashion Choice
					

"I have been a patron for decades," the reality star wrote in a four-letter-word sendoff. "No longer."




					www.huffpost.com


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## sdkitty

bag-princess said:


> Caitlyn Jenner Swears Off Beverly Hills Hotel For Denying Her Lunch Over Fashion Choice
> 
> 
> "I have been a patron for decades," the reality star wrote in a four-letter-word sendoff. "No longer."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.huffpost.com


don't they know she's special?


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## bag-princess

sdkitty said:


> don't they know she's special?




they know now!!!


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## TC1

I'm sure they'll manage to survive without her patronage.


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## sdkitty

TC1 said:


> I'm sure they'll manage to survive without her patronage.


and I wouldn't call that tear in the jeans tiny


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## bag-mania

I have lost all patience with famous people and their big egos. I'm surprised Caitlyn didn't hit them with a "don't they know who I am?" as well.


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## sdkitty

bag-mania said:


> I have lost all patience with famous people and their big egos. I'm surprised Caitlyn didn't hit them with a "don't they know who I am?" as well.


well, what she did was basically equivalent to that, wasn't it?


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## bag-mania

sdkitty said:


> well, what she did was basically equivalent to that, wasn't it?



In some ways it was worse. What with the profanity on social media and all. Maybe they'll sue Caitlyn.


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## bag-princess

I don’t like to speak badly about the elderly so I’m going to drop this here and slide out  












						Caitlyn Jenner’s Mom: ’The Kardashians’ Is Most ’Senseless Thing’ Ever
					

You’re never too old to have an opinion on the Kardashians. Just ask Caitlyn Jenner’s 96-year-old mom.




					uproxx.com


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## uhpharm01

Caitlyn Jenner To Pay $800K Settlement In Fatal Malibu Crash
					

Caitlyn Jenner will pay $800,000 to the family of a woman killed in a 2015 crash she was involved in along Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu.




					www.cbsnews.com


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## Luvbolide

uhpharm01 said:


> Caitlyn Jenner To Pay $800K Settlement In Fatal Malibu Crash
> 
> 
> Caitlyn Jenner will pay $800,000 to the family of a woman killed in a 2015 crash she was involved in along Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cbsnews.com



This is an old article - I was trying to figure out why Caitlin would pay a settlement after the case was dismissed!


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## uhpharm01

Luvbolide said:


> This is an old article - I was trying to figure out why Caitlin would pay a settlement after the case was dismissed!


thanks. I was wondering why it was posted on TMZ the other day too. 

I think they meant to post this article instead









						Caitlyn Jenner Called Out by Trans Artist for Boxing Match
					

Caitlyn Jenner is getting called out by a transgender artist to join her in the ring for a boxing match.




					www.tmz.com


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