# REAL Native American Jewelry~



## susieserb

Why talk it when you can SHOW it


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## susieserb

Coral


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## susieserb

More, this is too much fun!!


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## Florasun

Love your vlog! Your turquoise is beautiful and it is so much more informative to see each piece on video with your description rather than a still photo.


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## susieserb

Florasun said:


> Love your vlog! Your turquoise is beautiful and it is so much more informative to see each piece on video with your description rather than a still photo.


I know I'm a tool but honestly when I see Vlogs from other members I get so much more from it and let's face it, this is the way of the future?


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## Florasun

IDK some of us are still camera shy.


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## susieserb

I remember being terrified to upload a picture and was all thumbs towards execution?  I needed all this direction and quidence...but I totally understand.


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## brae

Kind of random and a possibly weird comment, but I like the noises your jewelry makes when you're moving it or it's clanking against the other jewelry.


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## susieserb

brae said:


> Kind of random and a possibly weird comment, but I like the noises your jewelry makes when you're moving it or it's clanking against the other jewelry.



Not weird at all, that aspect totally caught my attention as well, this stuff has a lot of weight.  What distracted me was my Pom licking my arm, clueless at the time?


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## Suzie

Susie, loved your videos and your sense of humour and your lovely pieces of jewellery.


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## susieserb

Suzie said:


> Susie, loved your videos and your sense of humour and your lovely pieces of jewellery.



Hi Suz great to see u here, I so love the color (I swear the denim Bal got me started)


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## papertiger

Well, I think you're great and I love your beautiful jewellery and OMG your dog makes me smile. I have a few Native American pieces of my own picked up when I was touring the US, I like the old stuff, can't trust on-line. I also like some Mexican silver and carved jewellery, much of it is so undervalued IMO. 

The reason I like pics and text is because I often have to silently enjoy myself whilst my partner is working or watching sports and because a pic/text takes secs whereas videos take much longer (and lets face it, most 'presenters' do not have your charm and are annoying)


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## susieserb

papertiger said:


> Well, I think you're great and I love your beautiful jewellery and OMG your dog makes me smile. I have a few Native American pieces of my own picked up when I was touring the US, I like the old stuff, can't trust on-line. I also like some Mexican silver and carved jewellery, much of it is so undervalued IMO.
> 
> The reason I like pics and text is because I often have to silently enjoy myself whilst my partner is working or watching sports and because a pic/text takes secs whereas videos take much longer (and lets face it, most 'presenters' do not have your charm and are annoying)



I agree on so many levels.  Really a video on here should be shorter then the length I have.  There are pro's and cons to both however.  A small video where a subject is sporting a purse can be so helpful for a viewer's decision process.  I do know when I watch a Sak's video on an item of clothing I know right away if I want that piece or not KWIM.

Online is like anything it takes time and knowledge of the dealer.  The individual I buy my old pawn pieces from is a real winner.  He offers returns, no questions asked.

I'm also lucky that I have a Native American Dealer in my community that I can glean knowledge from.  Last this stuff is under valued all these carved pieces are just wearable art!  Nepal necklaces are stunning too; I can't get over their small price point?


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## susieserb

Here is Mary Millicent Abigail Rogers, better known as Millicent Rogers, was a socialite, fashion icon, and art collector. She was the granddaughter of Standard Oil tycoon Henry Huttleston Rogers, and an heiress to his wealth.  She has a fantastic collection of Native American Jewelry in a museum.  The first pic shows how Mill looked, the other pictures depicts some of her Museum quality pieces on models that mirror Millicent's appearance.


Millicent died in the early 50's.


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## susieserb

Zoe Kravitz and other model shots.


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## susieserb

more..


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## susieserb

more


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## susieserb




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## susieserb




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## susieserb

Worn on Father's Day~


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## susieserb

Commutations and permutations are endless...


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## Julide

Hello!!I love jewelry, does not matter where it is from!!I wanted to add a piece of mine, a squash blossom. I don't remember the age or any other details but wanted to added it to your fantastic collection of pictures! BTW I love your videos! Please keep them coming! Also what style did Millicient Rogers have! Going to look for more images of her online!


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## Julide

She was an amazing woman!! More Millicient Rogers pictures. I hope its ok for me to add them...:shame:She had amazing style!


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## papertiger

Julide said:


> She was an amazing woman!! More Millicient Rogers pictures. I hope its ok for me to add them...:shame:She had amazing style!



Fabulous pictures, and agreed great, great style

Actually, I'm loving all these pictures on this thread


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## susieserb

Golly PLEASE add, this jewelry deserves recognition and more posts from others who appreciate and adore NAJ's broad spectrum of design and use (I'm not into the whole Santa Fe look but I wear the stuff with Chanel, Balenciaga of anything with a Euro feel/dimension) KWIM?


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## susieserb

Julide said:


> She was an amazing woman!! More Millicient Rogers pictures. I hope its ok for me to add them...:shame:She had amazing style!


Doesn't all her stuff make you want to go to the museum and check it out.  She was something all right and her love for the "people" is very inspiring.


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## susieserb

So we now know Cher is a tiny bit Native American and that her father was Armenian (yes like the Kardashians)...When the media found out about her NA background they played it up to the hilt and she decided to run with it; man oh man did it pay off for her.  In her a documentary featuring Cher's mother Georgia (along with Cher and here sister Georgeanne) they laughed and laughed about that good fortune.

But let's face it, la Cher ROcKs the look...


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## susieserb




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## susieserb

Celebs wearing their NAJ...

Ty Pennington
Cameron Diaz
Cynthia Nixon
Eva Mendez


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## susieserb

More Celebs

Faith Hill
Glenda Gilson
Hayden Panattiere
Megan Fox


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## susieserb

More Celebs rocking NAJ..

Cher yet again..As well as Cameron Diaz
Sarah Jessica-Parker
Selma Hayek


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## susieserb

Then you have madame Paris Hilton..


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## Thingofbeauty

I love turquoise but have NO IDEA where to purchase or how to buy. I remember reading that black markings indicate real turquoise but I'm not even sure if that's true!

That being said, I think this is a refreshingly different tread. The jewellery is very beautiful but feels like it's being lived in, rather than the person being a showcase for the jewellery, which can sometimes happen with stones lives diamonds, emeralds etc.


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## susieserb

Thingofbeauty said:


> I love turquoise but have NO IDEA where to purchase or how to buy. I remember reading that black markings indicate real turquoise but I'm not even sure if that's true!
> 
> That being said, I think this is a refreshingly different tread. The jewellery is very beautiful but feels like it's being lived in, rather than the person being a showcase for the jewellery, which can sometimes happen with stones lives diamonds, emeralds etc.



I also love stroking the stones and find myself doing so blindly.  The ring in my avatar houses a big flat turq rock, it's a smooth as glass (it's from the 30's), my fingers can't help grazing the surface 

Turquoise comes in many grades of quality and color.  The more veining (in black spider) the more expensive.  Turquoise can be ripped off in many ways and then passed on as REAL turquoise.  For instances trash remnants of turquoise without mineral copper coloring is ground up, formed and dyed blue.  These rocks are passed as "turquoise".  Also China will take white porous substances and dye them blue, thus passing those stones as "real turquoise".  Ever go into one of those cheap Chinese import shops and they have TONS of turquoise jewelry CHEAP??? Now you know why.


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## diane278

I just had new leather concho backs made for a concho belt. I have had this belt for years and have been told that it's museum quality, although I have never verified this. I do think it's beautiful.


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## Thingofbeauty

susieserb said:


> I also love stroking the stones and find myself doing so blindly.  The ring in my avatar houses a big flat turq rock, it's a smooth as glass (it's from the 30's), my fingers can't help grazing the surface
> 
> Turquoise comes in many grades of quality and color.  The more veining (in black spider) the more expensive.  Turquoise can be ripped off in many ways and then passed on as REAL turquoise.  For instances trash remnants of turquoise without mineral copper coloring is ground up, formed and dyed blue.  These rocks are passed as "turquoise".  Also China will take white porous substances and dye them blue, thus passing those stones as "real turquoise".  Ever go into one of those cheap Chinese import shops and they have TONS of turquoise jewelry CHEAP??? Now you know why.


I understand what you mean completely. Sometimes a piece just...communicates somehow. I love when that happens but it is rare. I've seen the very blue, cheap turquoise that you're talking about. Even without knowing about turquoise I hated it because it really does look very cheap. I think sometimes when we refine a stone or metal too much it loses its spirit. I remember many years ago looking at gold jewellery in Venezuela and it was explained to me that no one bought local gold as they found it too rough. They bought the imported gold from Italy. But I thought the colour of the local gold was intensely beautiful. It looked like something you would use to adorn temples and offer to rulers from neighbouring lands. Next to it the super smooth European gold looked lifeless.


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## susieserb

Thingofbeauty said:


> I understand what you mean completely. Sometimes a piece just...communicates somehow. I love when that happens but it is rare. I've seen the very blue, cheap turquoise that you're talking about. Even without knowing about turquoise I hated it because it really does look very cheap. I think sometimes when we refine a stone or metal too much it loses its spirit. I remember many years ago looking at gold jewellery in Venezuela and it was explained to me that no one bought local gold as they found it too rough. They bought the imported gold from Italy. But I thought the colour of the local gold was intensely beautiful. It looked like something you would use to adorn temples and offer to rulers from neighbouring lands. Next to it the super smooth European gold looked lifeless.


I would love to see pictures comparing the hues in those metals? Whoa.


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## susieserb

diane278 said:


> I just had new leather concho backs made for a concho belt. I have had this belt for years and have been told that it's museum quality, although I have never verified this. I do think it's beautiful.


There is coin silver and then there's sterling silver.  Old coin is silver coins melted to makes the pieces, they patina like pewter ().  Many of my NAJ is Museum and they have a heaviness, soulful feel.  Just like ur belt.  I want a modeling shot, that thing is insane!


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## diane278

susieserb said:


> There is coin silver and then there's sterling silver.  Old coin is silver coins melted to makes the pieces, they patina like pewter ().  Many of my NAJ is Museum and they have a heaviness, soulful feel.  Just like ur belt.  I want a modeling shot, that thing is insane!


I'll do a modeling shot the next time I'm wearing something appropriate. The belt is massive and I will need to remove some of the conches even though I am heavy. I did dig out another bag of stuff....all of it tarnished badly, as I never wear it. It is all part of a large collection I put together in the 80's. I think there may be another bag somewhere, but I haven't seen it in awhile. I hope these photos come out ok as I took them with my iPad. I felt it was only appropriate to take an additional shot in front of a horse painting, given the theme. I gave much of my collection to a cousin but kept a few pieces that were important to me.  i finally got an upright photo posted....a long ways down....keep scrolling....

Oops. On my computer these appeared upside down. On my ipad they look fine. Go figure


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## diane278

diane278 said:


> I'll do a modeling shot the next time I'm wearing something appropriate. The belt is massive and I will need to remove some of the conches even though I am heavy. I did dig out another bag of stuff....all of it tarnished badly, as I never wear it. It is all part of a large collection I put together in the 80's. I think there may be another bag somewhere, but I haven't seen it in awhile. I hope these photos come out ok as I took them with my iPad. I felt it was only appropriate to take an additional shot in front of a horse painting, given the theme.


One more try. Without defying gravity this time....I hope.

Ok...that didn't work. If anyone here does yoga, a headstand will make it easier to see these!!!!!


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## diane278

diane278 said:


> One more try. Without defying gravity this time....I hope.
> 
> Ok...that didn't work. If anyone here does yoga, a headstand will make it easier to see these!!!!!


Please bear with me. I'm frustrated and going to try something else.


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## susieserb

diane278 said:


> Please bear with me. I'm frustrated and going to try something else.


OH MY!! Those squash blossom necklaces (especially the one with the dangling coins) are totally drool worthy.  My SB piece is newer, yours has some age and fabulous characteristic touches.  Ouch makes me want more then one.  Gotta stop myself.....

GULP!


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## diane278

susieserb said:


> OH MY!! Those squash blossom necklaces (especially the one with the dangling coins) are totally drool worthy.  My SB piece is newer, yours has some age and fabulous characteristic touches.  Ouch makes me want more then one.  Gotta stop myself.....
> 
> GULP!


They've been in a plastic zip lock bag for most of the last 30 years "developing patina" which is only a nicer way of saying "getting really tarnished".  The issue is now that I would need to clean things in order to get enough tarnish off them that it doesn't come off onto my clothing, but I don't like the way it looks when it's too clean! Besides, I'm now so into Elsa Peretti that there's little chance of going back. I also have comfort issues with the weight of the necklaces. I have been thinking about selling some of my pieces but have been too lazy to take action....as usual.


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## HauteMama

Although I am sure everyone already knows this, but I just wanted to interject that Native American jewelry is NOT necessarily synonymous with turquoise. That is a southwestern thing, which is best known and very popular, but many other Native American groups use abalone shell, coral, bone, copper and other materials. I would hate to see people who aren't turquoise fans dismiss the idea of Native American jewelry, because some of it is very beautiful and very different from what is seen in this thread.


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## susieserb

HauteMama said:


> Although I am sure everyone already knows this, but I just wanted to interject that Native American jewelry is NOT necessarily synonymous with turquoise. That is a southwestern thing, which is best known and very popular, but many other Native American groups use abalone shell, coral, bone, copper and other materials. I would hate to see people who aren't turquoise fans dismiss the idea of Native American jewelry, because some of it is very beautiful and very different from what is seen in this thread.


OMYGOSH absolutely.  Please show us what you may have!!  I'm getting a mediterranean coral cuff (much bigger) then the one in my avatar.  Had it on lay-away for a while.  This coral can not be farmed anymore, so what's on the market is all that is left.  Thus those items can be pricey.

Personally I'm not a copper fan, so I don't have NAJ with that element, however, I do have abalone shell and coral.  Love to see some bone pieces?


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## HauteMama

I am not a Native American jewelry fan in general, so I don't own anything of significance. But DH has always been deeply interested in Native American things of all kinds, and tried diligently to get me to like Native American jewelry when we were first married. He showed me lots of pieces from different places we traveled, and I remember being interested in how the materials that were most available in the area were what were used in the jewelry, and bone pieces were quite common among plains and hills area tribes. I specifically remember him trying to buy me something like this (I do not know the provenance of this piece nor if it is even Native American made, but it looks similar to what he wanted to buy), which was made out of two different colours or finishes of bone:


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## susieserb

This item reminds me of Gerda Lynggaard's Monies line.  I have her stuff too, very tribal in nature but she's a Copenhagan designer.  Love this piece^^


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## Julide

I am adding one more of my NAJ pieces. I have had this for 15 years, Eeek!! I'm getting old! The first picture is the original necklace and the other two are different "chains" that I use for the pendant.

I think that like all jewelry you can find different styles and materials in NAJ, it depends on what you are interested in.


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## susieserb

Julide said:


> I am adding one more of my NAJ pieces. I have had this for 15 years, Eeek!! I'm getting old! The first picture is the original necklace and the other two are different "chains" that I use for the pendant.
> 
> I think that like all jewelry you can find different styles and materials in NAJ, it depends on what you are interested in.


Get outta town with that freakin pendant


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## susieserb

Pieces that are NOT turquoise?


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## susieserb

Few hotties with turquoise...

Shawn White (love him)
Vanessa de-la Rivaherrera
Some model


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## Thingofbeauty

Julide said:


> I am adding one more of my NAJ pieces. I have had this for 15 years, Eeek!! I'm getting old! The first picture is the original necklace and the other two are different "chains" that I use for the pendant.
> 
> I think that like all jewelry you can find different styles and materials in NAJ, it depends on what you are interested in.


So beautiful.


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## Julide

Ok, because I am a complete nerd and my first degree was history so I love research! I have compiled a few NAJ pics. I will try to explain if I can but I only know about a few different styles.

I will start where I started with my first necklace. This and my squash blossom are examples of Zuni petit Point jewelry. Don't know more than that but love it!My necklace also has matching earrings which I wear more than the necklace.


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## Julide

Next up! Since we started with Zuni I will stay with them, Zuni inlay jewelry, not really my style, don't own anything but thought you may enjoy it.


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## Julide

Ok, next, I feel like I am writing a research paper! Bear claw jewelry! Seriously nuts!! I think this could classify for rocker wear. What do you think? Also breast plate chokers.  I don't know what they are made of sorry.:shame:


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## Julide

And next...beaded jewelry and dentalium (sp?) shell earrings. I have never had earrings this long, but I wonder if they would look good on?


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## Julide

And my favorite, quill jewelry. Made from Porcupine!! Yes! These little guys makes this! I don't own anything but one day...


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## Julide

A couple more random pics I found while searching the web...I hope you have enjoyed!!


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## Julide

susieserb said:


> Get outta town with that freakin pendant





Thingofbeauty said:


> So beautiful.



Thank you!!!


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## chessmont

I'm speechless  these are magnificent


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## chessmont

=


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## chessmont

Is this a coral like you were referring to, susieserb?  I have had it for about 20 years


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## susieserb

chessmont said:


> Is this a coral like you were referring to, susieserb?  I have had it for about 20 years


My head is spinning with excitement. Very cool "shares"...We ALL need inspiration with our hobbies.

Here is my cuff, which is coming tomorrow.  It had to be resized to fit my wrist.  I felt a little guilty since the piece wasn't "born" this way.  Apparently the cuff ends were cut down by an artist but not the original one since the jewelry was designed in the 30's.

This was an item that I had on layaway.


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## diane278

susieserb said:


> My head is spinning with excitement. Very cool "shares"...We ALL need inspiration with our hobbies.
> 
> Here is my cuff, which is coming tomorrow.  It had to be resized to fit my wrist.  I felt a little guilty since the piece wasn't "born" this way.  Apparently the cuff ends were cut down by an artist but not the original one since the jewelry was designed in the 30's.
> 
> This was an item that I had on layaway.


Wow! that's a real statement piece.


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## susieserb

Julide said:


> Ok, because I am a complete nerd and my first degree was history so I love research! I have compiled a few NAJ pics. I will try to explain if I can but I only know about a few different styles.
> 
> I will start where I started with my first necklace. This and my squash blossom are examples of Zuni petit Point jewelry. Don't know more than that but love it!My necklace also has matching earrings which I wear more than the necklace.


Ur last cuff, icamethisclose to buying one very similar to it.. Great minds think alike ..  Any mod shots? Pretty please with a coral red cherry on top


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## diane278

susieserb said:


> There is coin silver and then there's sterling silver.  Old coin is silver coins melted to makes the pieces, they patina like pewter ().  Many of my NAJ is Museum and they have a heaviness, soulful feel.  Just like ur belt.  I want a modeling shot, that thing is insane!


Here we go. I took a couple of mediocre photos. The belt is too big around for me and I didn't feel like taking conches off so it's sitting very low. I am overweight and that makes it look a bit smaller than it is. It is VERY heavy. These posted sideways on my computer. Oops!


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## susieserb

Ur belt is just stupendous.  I know u say your very heavy but sorry, I do not see it.  Also I enjoy wearing this type of item slung low on the hip.  Over size sweater, jeans and boots?  U have to wear this treasure!


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## Florasun

Julide said:


> And my favorite, quill jewelry. Made from Porcupine!! Yes! These little guys makes this! I don't own anything but one day...



Thanks for the pics, Julide! The quill necklace is fabulous, and the style has made a comeback recently. Interesting how far back it goes. You are right, the bear claw jewelry is very rock n roll!


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## Florasun

diane278 said:


> Please bear with me. I'm frustrated and going to try something else.



Beautiful collection! Thanks for taking the time to photograph it.


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## Julide

susieserb said:


> Ur last cuff, icamethisclose to buying one very similar to it.. Great minds think alike ..  Any mod shots? Pretty please with a coral red cherry on top



*Susieserb*, its not mine. It was pictures found on the internet.



Florasun said:


> Thanks for the pics, Julide! The quill necklace is fabulous, and the style has made a comeback recently. Interesting how far back it goes. You are right, the bear claw jewelry is very rock n roll!



Anytime *Florasun*!!I think quill is cool too!! Good to hear its making a comeback. I may find one yet! And yes the bear claw..I am imagining some eyeliner wearing rockstar will sport a piece one day...then we can have modeling pics!!



diane278 said:


> Here we go. I took a couple of mediocre photos. The belt is too big around for me and I didn't feel like taking conches off so it's sitting very low. I am overweight and that makes it look a bit smaller than it is. It is VERY heavy. These posted sideways on my computer. Oops!



*Diane* you have done a great job taking pics, thank you!! I am terrible you are doing much better than I ever could. Keep going!!


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## susieserb

chessmont said:


> Is this a coral like you were referring to, susieserb?  I have had it for about 20 years


Btw ur cuff is jaw dropping.  I would have a ton of coral if I could.  Here's to another 20 years of pleasure.


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## susieserb

diane278 said:


> Wow! that's a real statement piece.


Just got it in the mail and believe it or not the cuff is_ delicate_. Not heavy and armor like, (this is the second cuff I bought from the 30's that has a "shield" feel as oppose to a chunk).

I returned the first one because it spun around my wrist (made for a big man).  This one would have too but the dealer had it professionally sized down; you can't even tell?


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## chessmont

susieserb said:


> My head is spinning with excitement. Very cool "shares"...We ALL need inspiration with our hobbies.
> 
> Here is my cuff, which is coming tomorrow.  It had to be resized to fit my wrist.  I felt a little guilty since the piece wasn't "born" this way.  Apparently the cuff ends were cut down by an artist but not the original one since the jewelry was designed in the 30's.
> 
> This was an item that I had on layaway.



Beautiful!!!!!


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## chessmont

diane278 said:


> Here we go. I took a couple of mediocre photos. The belt is too big around for me and I didn't feel like taking conches off so it's sitting very low. I am overweight and that makes it look a bit smaller than it is. It is VERY heavy. These posted sideways on my computer. Oops!



The belt is beautiful and you are NOT overweight!


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## susieserb

Julide said:


> *Susieserb*, its not mine. It was pictures found on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime *Florasun*!!I think quill is cool too!! Good to hear its making a comeback. I may find one yet! And yes the bear claw..I am imagining some eyeliner wearing rockstar will sport a piece one day...then we can have modeling pics!!
> 
> 
> 
> *Diane* you have done a great job taking pics, thank you!! I am terrible you are doing much better than I ever could. Keep going!!


Okay Then I KNOW who's selling it hehe.  Must step away...


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## susieserb

The cuff is very light, otherwise I couldn't do this stack.


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## Millicat

Earrings.






Cuff.





Necklace No. 1.





Necklace No. 2 i'm showing in 3 parts because it's so big.















These are entrusted to me temporarily, they actually belong to a friend of mine.
She used to be married to a native American and he gave these to her a long time ago, she's an elderly lady now and is downsizing her home and life and needs to consider what can be left behind


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## susieserb

Millicat said:


> Earrings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Necklace No. 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Necklace No. 2 i'm showing in 3 parts because it's so big.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are entrusted to me temporarily, they actually belong to a friend of mine.
> She used to be married to a native American and he gave these to her a long time ago, she's an elderly lady now and is downsizing her home and life and needs to consider what can be left behind


Old pawn for sure, these pieces are true treasures and works of art, WOW!  Love love love.


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## Millicat

I'm surprised they're good, not knowing anything about them I didn't ever consider their monetary worth, they are incredibly heavy, and some pieces have signatures on.
What direction would you point me in to sell them, given that i'm in the UK ?


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## susieserb

Millicat said:


> I'm surprised they're good, not knowing anything about them I didn't ever consider their monetary worth, they are incredibly heavy, and some pieces have signatures on.
> What direction would you point me in to sell them, given that i'm in the UK ?


Let me PM you


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## chessmont

susieserb said:


> The cuff is very light, otherwise I couldn't do this stack.



Beautiful


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## nwhite

Very cool thread - such beautiful jewelry!  I love turquoise and have some pieces myself that I need to take pictures of and add.


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## susieserb

Let's look at real Native Americans sporting their OLD PAWN treasures.


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## susieserb

Cont.


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## texasgirliegirl

Julide said:


> I am adding one more of my NAJ pieces. I have had this for 15 years, Eeek!! I'm getting old! The first picture is the original necklace and the other two are different "chains" that I use for the pendant.
> 
> I think that like all jewelry you can find different styles and materials in NAJ, it depends on what you are interested in.



I really like the middle necklace. 
What material is the chain?


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## Julide

texasgirliegirl said:


> I really like the middle necklace.
> What material is the chain?



Thank you *TexasGirlieGirl*!!It's tibetian, the "beads" are actually seeds. I have had it for a while, so sadly I can't remember what kind of seeds. I love Tibetan jewelry too! Lots of Turquoise and some great designs! I should just say I love all kinds of jewelry, easier than listing all my favs!


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## kiwishopper

This is an awesome thread! 
I recently went to South Dokata and visited the Lakota tribe and acquires this beautiful hand crafted silver bangle!


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## Julide

I was on the web and stumbled across this blogger, her pic was fantastic!! Just how I like to wear a squash blossom necklace!


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## Julide

Other modern pictures. I like how modern this necklace can look! Also Kate capshaw and a bracelet similar to others in this thread. And finally Celine in a squash blossom necklace. Enjoy!!!


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## diane278

A little more fashion inspiration.


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## Julide

kiwishopper said:


> This is an awesome thread!
> I recently went to South Dokata and visited the Lakota tribe and acquires this beautiful hand crafted silver bangle!



Congrats on your bracelet!! It looks good on you!!


----------



## Julide

diane278 said:


> A little more fashion inspiration.



Great pics!! I love the last one!! The pendant and the beads are fab!! Thanks for posting these!


----------



## jellyv

I've already posted a fair amount of my Native American goodies on the Show Me the Turquoise thread, 
http://forum.purseblog.com/the-jewelry-box/show-me-the-turquoise-768873-9.html

and want to recommend it for those who haven't found it yet.  I'm a collector of natural (often now obsolete) American turquoise, plus silver/coral/Zuni inlay/etc. A lot of antique/vintage, some contemporary if the quality is high.

Waiting for a major necklace to arrive this week, so I'll try to post it. NA material has been a longtime obsession for me.

A favorite of mine:


----------



## Julide

jellyv said:


> I've already posted a fair amount of my Native American goodies on the Show Me the Turquoise thread,
> http://forum.purseblog.com/the-jewelry-box/show-me-the-turquoise-768873-9.html
> 
> and want to recommend it for those who haven't found it yet.  I'm a collector of natural (often now obsolete) American turquoise, plus silver/coral/Zuni inlay/etc. A lot of antique/vintage, some contemporary if the quality is high.
> 
> Waiting for a major necklace to arrive this week, so I'll try to post it. NA material has been a longtime obsession for me.
> 
> A favorite of mine:



Beautiful bracelet *JellyV*!! If this is just a sampling of your collection, I can't wait to see more!Thank you for the link, I am off to drool on the other thread!!


----------



## jellyv

Thank you, Julide. The gorgeous materials and craftsmanship make NA jewelry a great American art form. Never too late to start your own collection!


----------



## Julide

jellyv said:


> Thank you, Julide. The gorgeous materials and craftsmanship make NA jewelry a great American art form. Never too late to start your own collection!





*JellyV*, mine is small and with my ADD when it comes to jewelry collecting, it is perhaps a good thing!

BTW I wanted to share a website that I found while researching a piece, it has different hallmarks of NA artists! I think you may enjoy it!I spent an afternoon just looking up artists and the back to the hallmarks. Since you collect NA art I would love to hear about your favorite NA artists!


http://www.art-amerindien.com/signature_bijoux_amerindiens.htm#a


----------



## jellyv

That's a neat site. I have two hallmarks books that I refer to a lot when looking at things from modern-era makers. Of course,  the oldest (rare and valuable) Indian jewelry isn't hallmarked or stamped for silver content. 

There are a lot of fine makers. My Zuni coral cluster bracelet was by a master, who died in the early 2000s. Her daughter is very active today and also doing amazing work. Here's a bolo in our collection by the daughter. (The tie cord is full length of course, just showing the turquoise parts)


----------



## Julide

jellyv said:


> That's a neat site. I have two hallmarks books that I refer to a lot when looking at things from modern-era makers. Of course,  the oldest (rare and valuable) Indian jewelry isn't hallmarked or stamped for silver content.
> 
> There are a lot of fine makers. My Zuni coral cluster bracelet was by a master, who died in the early 2000s. Her daughter is very active today and also doing amazing work. Here's a bolo in our collection by the daughter. (The tie cord is full length of course, just showing the turquoise parts)



I'm glad you like it!! I love anything that has to do with research!So it was perfect for me! 

Your bolo is wonderful! I have never seen one that had a pendant. I like that you have "generations" of jewelry artisans work, such a very cool idea! Please share more when you feel like it!


I am so enjoying this thread and all the beautiful pieces that have been posted! Please keep posting!!


----------



## BigPurseSue

Julide said:


> BTW I wanted to share a website that I found while researching a piece, it has different hallmarks of NA artists! I think you may enjoy it!I spent an afternoon just looking up artists and the back to the hallmarks. Since you collect NA art I would love to hear about your favorite NA artists!
> 
> 
> http://www.art-amerindien.com/signature_bijoux_amerindiens.htm#a





Thank you so much for posting this link! I have a pendant that I got years ago on ebay for about $30. I always assumed it was one of those Asian-manufactured rip-offs of NA jewelry. It's not marked Sterling, and although it polishes up like silver it's magnetic. Still the pendant is striking, includes a silver feather and squash blossoms, and the stone looks like malachite. People often remark on it, even strangers. Since I assumed it was a fake I always felt guilty about liking it and wearing it. There's a hallmark on the back, and when I looked it up in your link it matches that of the Navajo artist Louise Yazzie. In fact a bit of hunting revealed that it's very similar to other malachite jewelry the Yazzie family produced in the 1970s, often from recycled coins.  A big THANK YOU!   Now I can wear this favorite pendant without feeling sheepish. 


Love this thread, by the way. Really enjoy everyone's pictures and jewelry.


----------



## Julide

BigPurseSue said:


> Thank you so much for posting this link! I have a pendant that I got years ago on ebay for about $30. I always assumed it was one of those Asian-manufactured rip-offs of NA jewelry. It's not marked Sterling, and although it polishes up like silver it's magnetic. Still the pendant is striking, includes a silver feather and squash blossoms, and the stone looks like malachite. People often remark on it, even strangers. Since I assumed it was a fake I always felt guilty about liking it and wearing it. There's a hallmark on the back, and when I looked it up in your link it matches that of the Navajo artist Louise Yazzie. In fact a bit of hunting revealed that it's very similar to other malachite jewelry the Yazzie family produced in the 1970s, often from recycled coins.  A big THANK YOU!   Now I can wear this favorite pendant without feeling sheepish.
> 
> 
> Love this thread, by the way. Really enjoy everyone's pictures and jewelry.



*BigPurseSue*What wonderful news this morning!! I am so happy that you found about your artist!! Wow! Interesting that she made items out of coins, it explains why they were magnetic! This was great news! Do you mind sharing a pic of the pendant? And you are most welcome, this story was just the best to read about!


----------



## kiwishopper

Julide said:


> Congrats on your bracelet!! It looks good on you!!



Thank you very much! I have been wearing it non-stop! It is one of my signature pieces!


----------



## Thingofbeauty

Thanks everyone for sharing your pics. They've inspired me on the look out for lovely pieces of my own to acquire some day.


----------



## BigPurseSue

Julide said:


> *BigPurseSue*What wonderful news this morning!! I am so happy that you found about your artist!! Wow! Interesting that she made items out of coins, it explains why they were magnetic! This was great news! *Do you mind sharing a pic of the pendant?* And you are most welcome, this story was just the best to read about!




Just got a new digital camera, so bear with me....


Woo-hoo! It worked! Think the stone is malachite or turquoise?


----------



## Julide

BigPurseSue said:


> Just got a new digital camera, so bear with me....
> 
> 
> Woo-hoo! It worked! Think the stone is malachite or turquoise?



Oh, that's lovely!! I can see why you are fond of it!! Thank you for sharing!!Sometimes it's hard to do tech stuff!


----------



## susieserb

BigPurseSue said:


> Just got a new digital camera, so bear with me....
> 
> 
> Woo-hoo! It worked! Think the stone is malachite or turquoise?


Don't forget to rub it for in spa ration!  Joking aside Sue she's gorge. That color never ever tires me out.


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> I've already posted a fair amount of my Native American goodies on the Show Me the Turquoise thread,
> http://forum.purseblog.com/the-jewelry-box/show-me-the-turquoise-768873-9.html
> 
> and want to recommend it for those who haven't found it yet.  I'm a collector of natural (often now obsolete) American turquoise, plus silver/coral/Zuni inlay/etc. A lot of antique/vintage, some contemporary if the quality is high.
> 
> Waiting for a major necklace to arrive this week, so I'll try to post it. NA material has been a longtime obsession for me.
> 
> A favorite of mine:


Jaw dropping, mind blowing, fabulicious cuff


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> That's a neat site. I have two hallmarks books that I refer to a lot when looking at things from modern-era makers. Of course,  the oldest (rare and valuable) Indian jewelry isn't hallmarked or stamped for silver content.
> 
> There are a lot of fine makers. My Zuni coral cluster bracelet was by a master, who died in the early 2000s. Her daughter is very active today and also doing amazing work. Here's a bolo in our collection by the daughter. (The tie cord is full length of course, just showing the turquoise parts)


Please share a modeling shot.  A bolero is my next piece to buy.


----------



## Julide

BigPurseSue said:


> Just got a new digital camera, so bear with me....
> 
> 
> Woo-hoo! It worked! Think the stone is malachite or turquoise?



I found a couple of pics that may help you identify your stone, they are turquoise charts. Also there is a website that has sample pics too. IHTH!!

http://www.durangosilver.com/turquoise-colors.html

http://www.alltribes.com/kcenter/types-of-turquoise.html


----------



## susieserb

Your charts are the bomb, wow!!! I was able to diagnose all my stones based on your information.  I can't thank you enough.

Hey look at the singer's jewelry, very cute video too


----------



## jellyv

susieserb said:


> Please share a modeling shot.  A bolero is my next piece to buy.



Hi Susie,

Thanks for your enthusiasm. I don't post pics of myself online, so the pretties will have to do all the speaking on their own. Bolo ties are interesting. I don't wear them yet, but DH does--he also has a fine collection of special Indian pieces, so it's nice to share this mania.


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> Hi Susie,
> 
> Thanks for your enthusiasm. I don't post pics of myself online, so the pretties will have to do all the speaking on their own. Bolo ties are interesting. I don't wear them yet, but DH does--he also has a fine collection of special Indian pieces, so it's nice to share this mania.



Totally understand.  I think these artifacts would make tremendous necklaces for a woman.


----------



## jellyv

^Most definitely agree. I've seen them worn by gals and it looks really cool. I've been enjoying your pieces here too, S!

l'll try to find something interesting to add here soon.


----------



## Julide

susieserb said:


> Your charts are the bomb, wow!!! I was able to diagnose all my stones based on your information.  I can't thank you enough.
> 
> Hey look at the singer's jewelry, very cute video too




That's great news!! What kind of turquoise do you have?


----------



## chessmont

My coral cuff is stamped Mark Yazzie in script with Sterling stamped underneath that.   Is this one of the famous family of artists?  I have an equally large turquoise cuff with just a T stamped above the sterling stamp.


----------



## BigPurseSue

Julide said:


> I found a couple of pics that may help you identify your stone, they are turquoise charts. Also there is a website that has sample pics too. IHTH!!
> 
> http://www.durangosilver.com/turquoise-colors.html
> 
> http://www.alltribes.com/kcenter/types-of-turquoise.html





Thank you so much Julide for the links and charts! I had no idea that turquoise differed that much based upon where it was mined. Although that would make sense, wouldn't it? Sorta looks like my pendant might have a stone from one of the Mexican mine, as it has so much green. So very interesting! Thank you again for the links!


----------



## jellyv

There's an awful lot to know before you can make a totally firm judgment on where your turquoise comes from, if you're only going by pictures and not handling in person and a professional dealer hasn't guaranteed its origins. For example, some mines yield both blue and green stones. Some originally blue turquoise can now look green, from change over time. You also have to have a good understanding of matrix (the host rock that you see mixed in with the turquoise). The color and pattern of matrix are important indicators of the origin. In addition, you need to know a bit about the mining side of it: several of the legendary American turquoise mines have long been exhausted, so you won't see the material from them too often. Some mines have been opened much more recently--a 1970s pendant, for example, can't have a stone that could be mined only from 1990 onward. And so on.

Then, finally, there's the huge influx of Chinese turquoise, especially spiderweb, which is pretty and can be high grade (depending), but most of it is lower grade that just looks like the expensive American stuff.

Complicated!


----------



## Julide

jellyv said:


> There's an awful lot to know before you can make a totally firm judgment on where your turquoise comes from, if you're only going by pictures and not handling in person and a professional dealer hasn't guaranteed its origins. For example, some mines yield both blue and green stones. Some originally blue turquoise can now look green, from change over time. You also have to have a good understanding of matrix (the host rock that you see mixed in with the turquoise). The color and pattern of matrix are important indicators of the origin. In addition, you need to know a bit about the mining side of it: several of the legendary American turquoise mines have long been exhausted, so you won't see the material from them too often. Some mines have been opened much more recently--a 1970s pendant, for example, can't have a stone that could be mined only from 1990 onward. And so on.
> 
> Then, finally, there's the huge influx of Chinese turquoise, especially spiderweb, which is pretty and can be high grade (depending), but most of it is lower grade that just looks like the expensive American stuff.
> 
> Complicated!




*JellyV *That is complicated! I apologize I didn't realize there was such an influx of faux or enhanced turquoise. This sounds more complicated than diamond grading. What would you suggest that would help in identify a turquoise stone.

On another note, I did some research into books and found a couple. Have you heard of them? 

Hallmarks of the southwest by Barton Wright

Southwest Silver Jewelry by Paula Baxter

American Indian Jewelry by Gregory Schaaf

Thanks again for the information on turquoise stones.


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> There's an awful lot to know before you can make a totally firm judgment on where your turquoise comes from, if you're only going by pictures and not handling in person and a professional dealer hasn't guaranteed its origins. For example, some mines yield both blue and green stones. Some originally blue turquoise can now look green, from change over time. You also have to have a good understanding of matrix (the host rock that you see mixed in with the turquoise). The color and pattern of matrix are important indicators of the origin. In addition, you need to know a bit about the mining side of it: several of the legendary American turquoise mines have long been exhausted, so you won't see the material from them too often. Some mines have been opened much more recently--a 1970s pendant, for example, can't have a stone that could be mined only from 1990 onward. And so on.
> 
> Then, finally, there's the huge influx of Chinese turquoise, especially spiderweb, which is pretty and can be high grade (depending), but most of it is lower grade that just looks like the expensive American stuff.
> 
> Complicated!


Totally, just like purses you need to get your wares from a repeatable dealer.  There's all kinds of tell tale signs to peruse down to the clasp (which can be faked as well) but that's just one note to read (among any)...

Here's an old pawn necklace with some artisan jewelry mixed in...(the necklace has a tail in the back, secured, so I could sport a chocker effect)..


----------



## BigPurseSue

jellyv said:


> There's an awful lot to know before you can make a totally firm judgment on where your turquoise comes from, if you're only going by pictures and not handling in person and a professional dealer hasn't guaranteed its origins. For example, some mines yield both blue and green stones. Some originally blue turquoise can now look green, from change over time. You also have to have a good understanding of matrix (the host rock that you see mixed in with the turquoise). The color and pattern of matrix are important indicators of the origin. In addition, you need to know a bit about the mining side of it: several of the legendary American turquoise mines have long been exhausted, so you won't see the material from them too often. Some mines have been opened much more recently--a 1970s pendant, for example, can't have a stone that could be mined only from 1990 onward. And so on.


 
What interesting information! Thank you for posting it. I had no idea that blue turquoise can turn green over time. 

Some years back, the US news show Dateline NBC did an investigative segment on buying turquoise jewelry. They went to Santa Fe and purchased a wide variety of "American Indian" jewelry from both the famous jewelry market and from high-end jewelers in the area. Then they tested it to see if the stones were really turquoise. Most of it was not. Including an uber-pricey bracelet that a high-end jewelry store insisted was "dead pawn."

They claimed that one can only tell for certain that a stone is real turquoise if you try to burn it. Real turquoise burns. Faux-turquoise resins do not. They melt like you would expect plastics to melt. 

They also showed how jewelry makers can buy bags of faux-turquoise resin at craft stores and by simply adding water to the powder can stir up something that looks indistinguishable from real turquoise. 

I look at some of the "Indian" jewelry in my jewelry box that I bought on ebay over the years and honestly some does look like plastic. And it does seem like questionable sellers--you know, that guy in Minnesota who's sold dozens of "dead pawn" kachina necklaces that all look the same, and have no markings but he claims they are all probably sterling--have proliferated.

But turquoise is my favorite color (I'm still looking for the perfect pale turquoise nail polish, in case anyone can recommend one), so I wear the probably-fake stuff nonetheless.


----------



## jellyv

Julide said:


> rquoise stone.
> 
> On another note, I did some research into books and found a couple. Have you heard of them?
> 
> Hallmarks of the southwest by Barton Wright
> 
> Southwest Silver Jewelry by Paula Baxter
> 
> American Indian Jewelry by Gregory Schaaf



Yes, those are great resources. I have a big library on NA jewelry and those are in there. One of my fave books is called North American Indian Jewelry and Adornment by Lois Sherr Dubin--it covers all sorts of Indian things, not only from the Southwest.
--
Susie, your last pic was so cool.  I love the way you create a look mixing turquoise with other artisan pieces. It's what you see in old pics of Navajos too, as you've posted--the vintage photos show a great jumble. I have limits on doing that because I can't tolerate too much weight on the neck...wonder how Ms. Iris manages that!
--
Sue, yes, there's sadly a lot of fraud in the selling of turquoise, has been for decades. And probably even longer.


----------



## Julide

Hi all! I found this pic of Lindsay in the H forum, though it is not her best picture, I thought her necklace was cool and unusual.


*JellyV* I also ordered one of the books you suggested as I had an extra 20% off coupon at B&N. I cant wait to receive it!!


----------



## susieserb

Julide said:


> Hi all! I found this pic of Lindsay in the H forum, though it is not her best picture, I thought her necklace was cool and unusual.
> 
> 
> *JellyV* I also ordered one of the books you suggested as I had an extra 20% off coupon at B&N. I cant wait to receive it!!


Necklace is very cool~Lindsay could pull off even a bigger piece to really bring down the house...


----------



## jellyv

Julide said:


> *JellyV* I also ordered one of the books you suggested as I had an extra 20% off coupon at B&N. I cant wait to receive it!!



Hope you enjoy it! It's got very informative text along with great photos. The author is a famous writer on jewelry/adornment, wrote one of the definitive books on the history of beads.


----------



## purplepoodles

Love this thread! So much great knowledge here. Got about half way through and had to post a comment. 

I have been collecting NA early turquoise for a few years and have build up the very beginnings of a collection. Mostly I stumble across pieces at antique shows and flea markets. Have to try stuff on before I can buy it. 

I have a couple reference of books I'll try to dig them out later and post the titles, they are in deep storage right now.  

Here is a photo of my two fave and most worn summer pieces.


----------



## BigPurseSue

purplepoodles said:


> Love this thread! So much great knowledge here. Got about half way through and had to post a comment.
> 
> I have been collecting NA early turquoise for a few years and have build up the very beginnings of a collection. Mostly I stumble across pieces at antique shows and flea markets. Have to try stuff on before I can buy it.
> 
> I have a couple reference of books I'll try to dig them out later and post the titles, they are in deep storage right now.
> 
> Here is a photo of my two fave and most worn summer pieces.
> 
> View attachment 2684195




Forgive my ignorance, but is that a ring and a bracelet? They're fabulously beautiful. I love the color of their turquoise and the stones' patterning. I love to hunt out NA jewelry at antique shows too, but sadly it seems like all the antique shows have vanished from these parts. Ebay has killed them off apparently. Has anyone else noticed this in their part of the country?


----------



## purplepoodles

Yes it is BigSuePurse, apologies for the iffy pic. Using my phone right now, sometimes not so good.  

There are fewer dealers and shows here too but I find it's all about relationships. Let any dealers you like know that you collect NA jewelley and giving them you ph# is a good start. 

The ring came form a high end designer consignment store. It was cheap as the clientele were not knowledgeable or interested. Bracelet  came from a craft fair with a small room of "antiques"


----------



## amateurjeweler

jellyv said:


> There's an awful lot to know before you can make a totally firm judgment on where your turquoise comes from, if you're only going by pictures and not handling in person and a professional dealer hasn't guaranteed its origins. For example, some mines yield both blue and green stones. Some originally blue turquoise can now look green, from change over time. You also have to have a good understanding of matrix (the host rock that you see mixed in with the turquoise). The color and pattern of matrix are important indicators of the origin. In addition, you need to know a bit about the mining side of it: several of the legendary American turquoise mines have long been exhausted, so you won't see the material from them too often. Some mines have been opened much more recently--a 1970s pendant, for example, can't have a stone that could be mined only from 1990 onward. And so on.
> 
> Then, finally, there's the huge influx of Chinese turquoise, especially spiderweb, which is pretty and can be high grade (depending), but most of it is lower grade that just looks like the expensive American stuff.
> 
> Complicated!



This is exactly why I don't buy turquoise despite loving the look. 

An incredible amount of "genuine turquoise" is dyed howlite, genuine veined rocks marinated in blue pigment. The rest of anything resembling turqouise chemically is almost always "reconstituted," meaning turquoise too soft to be "stabilized," or basically blue mud, is ground up and solidified in a resin matrix. Anything left after that is almost always "stabilized" turquoise, basically vibrant blue soft rock that has been impregnated with resin but was never ground up like "reconstituted." Van Cleef & Arpels and Tiffany & Co. use stabilized turquoise.

Pretty much anything that can be worn straight from the ground (after cutting/tumbling of course) has already been mined, especially in the U.S. And since it's been exposed to air for decades to centuries, it has often oxidized green. Distinguishing what is what is nearly impossible without destroying the piece being evaluated. 

Also be aware of doublet genuine turquoise, thin slabs of untreated turquoise so fragile that they have to be cemented to boulder rock. This type should always be disclosed but almost never is.

 Decent quality untreated material from U.S. mines routinely goes for $200-$1000+ per carat.

Nonetheless some beautiful pics! Millicent's hoard was probably exemplary material. She should be better recognized as a fashion icon, a Dietrich caliber beauty with Southwestern sensibility. So chic!


----------



## jellyv

I feel differently about this. I think *so long as the consumer isn't deceived* and is content with the purchase, people can enjoy turquoise in whatever way they can afford and at whatever knowledge base they care to develop. I personally collect natural, untreated American mined jewelry, after years of learning and upgrading. To me, as long as dealers honestly represent what they sell (which they are legally bound to do), and customers who don't buy directly from dealers realize that there's a wide variation in types and quality and accept that, the various treatments of turquoise are a _very_ old story. It's always been highly prized, and not abundant, and imitated.

Agree that the Millicent Rogers collection is one of the great ones.


----------



## amateurjeweler

Sorry JellyV, meant to quote BigPurseSue from 7/5/14 11:58 responding to your quote, not yours. I mean to say that all the misrepresentation is why I don't buy turquoise gems at a premium. I personally don't have the expertise to distinguish material for myself.

I agree that stabilized gems are for the best if you want your turquoise to stay blue, and the other types are great as long as you're not being charged a premium and being told it's untreated, which is unfortunately common in the turquoise trade.


----------



## purplepoodles

Well put jellyv!

I have all sorts but still a very small collection compared to some of the posters here but every piece was bought for a reason. I have several nieces and some rings and things will go to them next time I see them. The turquoise and coral is ok but not the best, perfect for students. 

Last year I found a new stabilized strand of good sized and nicely coloured stones at a fair price. A friend made the one strand into three by adding fake pearls. Now I and my two sisters each have a strand. I'd never split a vintage strand or find three of similar size and quality so this worked out well. 

I have a three small hair combs, the turquoise is dyed too but just finding combs with turquoise was a huge thing and they make me very happy. Some day maybe a fine vintage piece will turn up but hair combs are made to be worn and do fall out and sometimes break or get lost. 

I think the ancient Egyptians and Romans had altered turquoise and other stones. 




jellyv said:


> I feel differently about this. I think *so long as the consumer isn't deceived* and is content with the purchase, people can enjoy turquoise in whatever way they can afford and at whatever knowledge base they care to develop. I personally collect natural, untreated American mined jewelry, after years of learning and upgrading. To me, as long as dealers honestly represent what they sell (which they are legally bound to do), and customers who don't buy directly from dealers realize that there's a wide variation in types and quality and accept that, the various treatments of turquoise are a _very_ old story. It's always been highly prized, and not abundant, and imitated.
> 
> Agree that the Millicent Rogers collection is one of the great ones.


----------



## susieserb

Ran across this pic of Megan Fox wearing a NA? turquoise(?) necklace~


----------



## susieserb

Shamefully I would kill for this fake coral cuff from Chanel for a cool 6000 dollars.  I can dream while trying it on.


----------



## susieserb

Cir. 1980's. Purchased from Santo Domingo artist, Mary Crespin. I'm referring to the inlayed feather (bib) necklace.


----------



## purplepoodles

susieserb said:


> Cir. 1980's. Purchased from Santo Domingo artist, Mary Crespin. I'm referring to the inlayed feather (bib) necklace.




Stunning! Very powerful piece


----------



## susieserb

Speaking of a powerful piece l@@k at Kate Blanchett's turquoise statement necklace. The fashion police sneered "western inspired". I was screaming, you go gurl!


----------



## susieserb

Andy Samberg's wife also flirted with the American Tribal Vibe.  I thought she looked simple and elegant, the turquoise ear pops were juuuuussssst right


----------



## susieserb

So Luann De Lesseps has slipped my dodgy radar? How could I forget about the countess (who's heritage is part American Indian) and graced my TV screen for like SEVEN YEARS as a NY HW??  

Before I ever dabbled in American Indian Jewelry Luann was sporting it's finery in spades.  I would explode if I got to see (experience) her burgeoning collection IRL????


----------



## susieserb

Two more


----------



## Julide

susieserb said:


> So Luann De Lesseps has slipped my dodgy radar? How could I forget about the countess (who's heritage is part American Indian) and graced my TV screen for like SEVEN YEARS as a NY HW??
> 
> Before I ever dabbled in American Indian Jewelry Luann was sporting it's finery in spades.  I would explode if I got to see (experience) her burgeoning collection IRL????



Only one of these pictures is NAJ the rest is just turquoise jewelry.


----------



## susieserb

I have an authentic American Indian Jewelry store in my community and they carry _new_ artist's designs, many of those pieces mimic what Luann is wearing; the new modernistic version of AIJ from American Indians.

So the owner of this store told me to check out Bob Dylan's picture on AARP's magazine.  Since I'm not a subscriber I googled the pic.  Dylan loves his bolo's~ so do I.  The last pic is my latest acquisition a bolo from the 50's.


----------



## Melora24

I just got this bracelet. I'm not sure how to know if it's authentic or not (and I'm definitely not ready to hear it's fake  ). It's a nice addition to my current stack, and a memory of a great trip.


----------



## susieserb

Melora24 said:


> I just got this bracelet. I'm not sure how to know if it's authentic or not (and I'm definitely not ready to hear it's fake  ). It's a nice addition to my current stack, and a memory of a great trip.


Is it marked in any manner? The metal appears to be silver.  It's very pretty and even more so for Spring.  Don't u just love buying jewelry when on vacay.  Somehow it feels like Christmas, just special.


----------



## Melora24

susieserb said:


> Is it marked in any manner? The metal appears to be silver.  It's very pretty and even more so for Spring.  Don't u just love buying jewelry when on vacay.  Somehow it feels like Christmas, just special.



It's marked "Silver" and "TJ". I just learned that it's a federal crime to sell fake NAJ, so I'm going to assume that gift shops in famous places only offer authentic! (except of course for the cheap made-in-Peru-or-China Indian-style jewelry).

Yes, buying something special on vacation can be magical!


----------



## jellyv

susieserb said:


> So the owner of this store told me to check out Bob Dylan's picture on AARP's magazine.  Since I'm not a subscriber I googled the pic.  Dylan loves his bolo's~ so do I.  The last pic is my latest acquisition a bolo from the 50's.



Dylan does. Your third pic is Leonard Cohen, also in a bolo.

Your vintage bolo is sensational! Wow--what a good stone like that would cost today...


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> Dylan does. Your third pic is Leonard Cohen, also in a bolo.
> 
> Your vintage bolo is sensational! Wow--what a good stone like that would cost today...


I know :shame: about my faux pas with ol' Leonard Cohen.  I had him in my archives when I pulled the pics up, he erroneously got sucked in, then it was too late to edit, lolol.

Thank you for the compliment on the bolo.  I looked long and hard to purchase the right one.  I almost went with bear claws but decided to go more stream line.  This piece is on layaway.


----------



## BigPurseSue

Melora24 said:


> I just got this bracelet. I'm not sure how to know if it's authentic or not (and I'm definitely not ready to hear it's fake  ). It's a nice addition to my current stack, and a memory of a great trip.




Ooooh! I LOVE that purple stone! I think bracelets in that style look so flattering on the wrist. 


*Susieserb*, LOVE the bolo! We want to see modeling shots when it arrives. I think every NA collector should have a bolo. It's one of those iconic pieces. I've looked at them and loved them for years, but I've yet to cross the bridge to buy one as I'm afraid I'd need a new outfit to go with it. At the very least a new white shirt. Nothing in my current closet would work with one except for maybe a black blazer.


----------



## susieserb

BigPurseSue said:


> Ooooh! I LOVE that purple stone! I think bracelets in that style look so flattering on the wrist.
> 
> 
> *Susieserb*, LOVE the bolo! We want to see modeling shots when it arrives. I think every NA collector should have a bolo. It's one of those iconic pieces. I've looked at them and loved them for years, but I've yet to cross the bridge to buy one as I'm afraid I'd need a new outfit to go with it. At the very least a new white shirt. Nothing in my current closet would work with one except for maybe a black blazer.


Gotcha.  So let me throw out the things I'm wearing mine with; linen sundresses in turquiose, or coral, or white.  Black dresses of any kind, the perfunctory white shirt.  I basically wear my gold jewelry in th cold months but once the sun comes out its my NAJ.  This bolo will be my "eye" when layered with longer necklaces, as Stacy London says, a hole filler.


----------



## BigPurseSue

susieserb said:


> Gotcha.  So let me throw out the things I'm wearing mine with; linen sundresses in turquiose, or coral, or white.  Black dresses of any kind, the perfunctory white shirt.  I basically wear my gold jewelry in th cold months but once the sun comes out its my NAJ.  This bolo will be my "eye" when layered with longer necklaces, as Stacy London says, a hole filler.


 
Some good ideas. Alas my only black dress is a fluffy cashmere one with a high collar and my linen sundress has lots of little buttons down the front that would clash with a bolo. (Note to self: buy no more sundresses with buttons down the front because that just doesn't look good with striking necklaces.) Think I'd need to bite the bullet and buy a white shirt that would work with one. 


I looked for photos online of women wearing bolos. It seems like there would be so many, many ways to style them in a striking manner. Alas, I found few. Most of the photos I found were of men wearing bolos. Including one of Bruce Springsteen wearing one on the cover of one of his albums a la Bob Dylan.


----------



## susieserb

BigPurseSue said:


> Some good ideas. Alas my only black dress is a fluffy cashmere one with a high collar and my linen sundress has lots of little buttons down the front that would clash with a bolo. (Note to self: buy no more sundresses with buttons down the front because that just doesn't look good with striking necklaces.) Think I'd need to bite the bullet and buy a white shirt that would work with one.
> 
> 
> I looked for photos online of women wearing bolos. It seems like there would be so many, many ways to style them in a striking manner. Alas, I found few. Most of the photos I found were of men wearing bolos. Including one of Bruce Springsteen wearing one on the cover of one of his albums a la Bob Dylan.


And it's a no brainier, easy wear.  I have a repro NAI bolo that I bought for 15 dollars made out of pewter to play with as a proto type, IOW to see if I want to spend my money on a real nice one.

Conclusion I do!


----------



## susieserb

Melora24 said:


> I just got this bracelet. I'm not sure how to know if it's authentic or not (and I'm definitely not ready to hear it's fake  ). It's a nice addition to my current stack, and a memory of a great trip.


Here's a nice little compliment piece 

http://www.castlegap.com/pages_item/cuff24529.html


----------



## Melora24

susieserb said:


> Here's a nice little compliment piece
> 
> http://www.castlegap.com/pages_item/cuff24529.html



Yes, it would look great with it! Not sure it would match my not-NAJ stack though  (you can see it on the stacking and layering thread)


----------



## susieserb

Speaking of stacking; you can do this with necklaces.  I bought the spiney oyster button necklace from my NAJ store along with the branch coral old pawn necklace.  They make terrific stacks with these other pieces 


But at the end of the day.  I think simple stack is easier on my neck


----------



## susieserb

Here's my new bolo; per my sister in Dallas apparently NAJ is going to be the new IT style with prices going through the roof (hummmm).  Any hoo Cher is on the hunt for MORE per twitter.
http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/05/you...-ad.html?om_rid=AAAcNJ&om_mid=_BVZh46B9CIm6qJ


----------



## cdtracing

A question for you ladies that love & wear NAJ....do you prefer sterling silver, nickle silver, or do you mix the two?


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> A question for you ladies that love & wear NAJ....do you prefer sterling silver, nickle silver, or do you mix the two?


 
"Nickel silver" is a base metal that resembles silver but isn't.  It isn't used by good smiths--nobody is going to set good stones in nickel. 

Modern silver is sterling, but antique NA silver was coin silver, with a different silver content. Both  of these have value and are used by good jewelry artists. 

I only collect NA jewelry in silver.


----------



## Freckles1

susieserb said:


> Speaking of stacking; you can do this with necklaces.  I bought the spiney oyster button necklace from my NAJ store along with the branch coral old pawn necklace.  They make terrific stacks with these other pieces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But at the end of the day.  I think simple stack is easier on my neck




Gorgeous!!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> A question for you ladies that love & wear NAJ....do you prefer sterling silver, nickle silver, or do you mix the two?


No nickel only coin or sterling silver, HTH!

BTW just a gentle reminder at bolo can become a pendant too.  I love this thing.

The light is hitting the stone washing it out, IRL its much more pigmented.


----------



## susieserb

So Summer is _almost here_ and I'm starting to wear my NAJ in spades (I find that my Chanel pearls and baubles are great for the colder months) but once those blue skies and intense rays of sun start to shimmer it's coral and turquoise baby


----------



## BigPurseSue

susieserb said:


> Here's my new bolo;


 
Gorgeous! I love the deep blue of that stone. Is it modern or vintage? I can see wearing that with long boho-style chains and a linen peasant-style shirt or dark blazer. Think it looks pretty cool worn pendant style too.


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> "Nickel silver" is a base metal that resembles silver but isn't.  It isn't used by good smiths--nobody is going to set good stones in nickel.
> 
> Modern silver is sterling, but antique NA silver was coin silver, with a different silver content. Both  of these have value and are used by good jewelry artists.
> 
> I only collect NA jewelry in silver.





susieserb said:


> No nickel only coin or sterling silver, HTH!
> 
> BTW just a gentle reminder at bolo can become a pendant too.  I love this thing.
> 
> The light is hitting the stone washing it out, IRL its much more pigmented.



Thanks for your input.  I have some NAJ but it's set in silver.  I prefer silver to the Nickle Silver.  I'm getting back in to adding to what I have but am looking for a reliable, reputable online dealer.  Is there anyone you would recommend?  I really want to purchase some Old Pawn NA items.  I've been checking Ebay but there is so much that is Nickle silver & that's not what I'm looking for.   The jewelry I have already was purchased in the early 70's.  I would really appreciate any help you ladies could give me on a reputable dealer.  Thanks!


----------



## alice87

BigPurseSue said:


> What interesting information! Thank you for posting it. I had no idea that blue turquoise can turn green over time.
> 
> Some years back, the US news show Dateline NBC did an investigative segment on buying turquoise jewelry. They went to Santa Fe and purchased a wide variety of "American Indian" jewelry from both the famous jewelry market and from high-end jewelers in the area. Then they tested it to see if the stones were really turquoise. Most of it was not. Including an uber-pricey bracelet that a high-end jewelry store insisted was "dead pawn."
> 
> They claimed that one can only tell for certain that a stone is real turquoise if you try to burn it. Real turquoise burns. Faux-turquoise resins do not. They melt like you would expect plastics to melt.
> 
> They also showed how jewelry makers can buy bags of faux-turquoise resin at craft stores and by simply adding water to the powder can stir up something that looks indistinguishable from real turquoise.
> 
> I look at some of the "Indian" jewelry in my jewelry box that I bought on ebay over the years and honestly some does look like plastic. And it does seem like questionable sellers--you know, that guy in Minnesota who's sold dozens of "dead pawn" kachina necklaces that all look the same, and have no markings but he claims they are all probably sterling--have proliferated.
> 
> But turquoise is my favorite color (I'm still looking for the perfect pale turquoise nail polish, in case anyone can recommend one), so I wear the probably-fake stuff nonetheless.



This sounds pretty frightening. I have few pieces but not many. I am afraid of buying turquoise online. I don't want any resin either.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> Thanks for your input.  I have some NAJ but it's set in silver.  I prefer silver to the Nickle Silver.  I'm getting back in to adding to what I have but am looking for a reliable, reputable online dealer.  Is there anyone you would recommend?  I really want to purchase some Old Pawn NA items.  I've been checking Ebay but there is so much that is Nickle silver & that's not what I'm looking for.   The jewelry I have already was purchased in the early 70's.  I would really appreciate any help you ladies could give me on a reputable dealer.  Thanks!


I'll PM you.


----------



## susieserb

BigPurseSue said:


> Gorgeous! I love the deep blue of that stone. Is it modern or vintage? I can see wearing that with long boho-style chains and a linen peasant-style shirt or dark blazer. Think it looks pretty cool worn pendant style too.


Old Pawn from the 50's


----------



## alice87

susieserb said:


> I'll PM you.


Hello Susie, can you PM me too? Thank you!


----------



## cdtracing

Thought I would post a couple of pics of what I'm wearing today....

Couldn't decide on what necklace to wear with the heshi strands.  I finally went with the Apache piece in the 3rd picture.  It's from the 60's.


----------



## chessmont

All beautiful pieces!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> thought i would post a couple of pics of what i'm wearing today....
> 
> Couldn't decide on what necklace to wear with the heshi strands.  I finally went with the apache piece in the 3rd picture.  It's from the 60's.


now this is what i'm talkin about!!! Yes!!!!!


----------



## songofthesea

I just added a couple of pieces to my collection (which i'll take pix of later and post!) but wanted to show my bracelets...


from top to bottom: handmade hammered bracelet by native American artist unknown.  turquoise bracelet from artie Whitehorse, "ball bracelet" by artie Whitehorse and bangle from orville tsinnie.


necklaces are all native American and purchased at a local gallery which represents native American artisans.  one of them is called landscape mosaic and I think it's pretty cool!


what do you all think of the stacked look with the bracelets? I  just added a new one today and didn't know if it was "too much"...thanks!


----------



## songofthesea

the color of the turquoise is actually a brilliant blue...it just didn't photograph well....


----------



## cdtracing

songofthesea said:


> I just added a couple of pieces to my collection (which i'll take pix of later and post!) but wanted to show my bracelets...
> 
> 
> from top to bottom: handmade hammered bracelet by native American artist unknown.  turquoise bracelet from artie Whitehorse, "ball bracelet" by artie Whitehorse and bangle from orville tsinnie.
> 
> 
> necklaces are all native American and purchased at a local gallery which represents native American artisans.  one of them is called landscape mosaic and I think it's pretty cool!
> 
> 
> what do you all think of the stacked look with the bracelets? I  just added a new one today and didn't know if it was "too much"...thanks!




I love your bracelets stacked.  And no, it's definitely not too much!


----------



## songofthesea

cdtracing said:


> I love your bracelets stacked.  And no, it's definitely not too much!


 


thanks so much!!!!


----------



## susieserb

songofthesea said:


> the color of the turquoise is actually a brilliant blue...it just didn't photograph well....


Pretty stunning stone there girl.  I really can appreciate that necklace too, simple but with some snazz.  I don't know about you but wearing this stuff in the bright sunshine just makes me feel so special.  That silver, those deep colorful hues...


----------



## cdtracing

Here's what I wore today.  60's piece made by Apache artist Hendrina Largo & Jaclas necklace & earrings made by Navajo artist Lena Cowboy.


----------



## alice87

cdtracing said:


> Here's what I wore today.  60's piece made by Apache artist Hendrina Largo & Jaclas necklace & earrings made by Navajo artist Lena Cowboy.



Beautiful pieces! Each one of them is stunning.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> Here's what I wore today.  60's piece made by Apache artist Hendrina Largo & Jaclas necklace & earrings made by Navajo artist Lena Cowboy.


the earrings are perfect for this grouping and black stones are gorgeous with your hair.


----------



## cdtracing

alice87 said:


> Beautiful pieces! Each one of them is stunning.





susieserb said:


> the earrings are perfect for this grouping and black stones are gorgeous with your hair.



Thanks, Ladies.  I have another black & turquoise necklace; I just have to find it.  I'm going to have to get another silver safe keeper box so I can put all my NA jewelry together in one place. LOL


----------



## cdtracing

A couple of surprises from my hubby.  He picked these up in Texas when he was there on business last week!!  Both are old Pawn from the 60's to the 70's.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> A couple of surprises from my hubby.  He picked these up in Texas when he was there on business last week!!  Both are old Pawn from the 60's to the 70's.


TEAM HUBBY! AND he has great taste.

Really digging turq with black combo since the dark vibe bodes very well for the colder months; well at least for me!!!


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> TEAM HUBBY! AND he has great taste.
> 
> Really digging turq with black combo since the dark vibe bodes very well for the colder months; well at least for me!!!



I wear black all the time so the turquoise/black combo works for me year round.


----------



## cdtracing

I found my Kingman Turquoise ring!!!  YAY!!  I really love this ring!  It's another old pawn piece from the 60's.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> I found my Kingman Turquoise ring!!!  YAY!!  I really love this ring!  It's another old pawn piece from the 60's.


Summer skies that's what your blue reminds me of.  That touch of lime green doesn't hurt either~


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> Summer skies that's what your blue reminds me of.  That touch of lime green doesn't hurt either~



It's not nearly as big as your big ol' honking ring you have.  That's a really nice piece & very collectable.  I'm so envious!!!  But one day, I'll find my own big ol' honking ring! LOL


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> It's not nearly as big as your big ol' honking ring you have.  That's a really nice piece & very collectable.  I'm so envious!!!  But one day, I'll find my own big ol' honking ring! LOL


Oh they're out there trust me!  I just bought a fabulous signed old pawn coral flower ring for 40 dol'la.  YES I DID~~ 

It came from a country antique show and I couldn't believe my luck...pictures soon.  I also show you a little trick with rubber bands and rings.


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> Oh they're out there trust me!  I just bought a fabulous signed old pawn coral flower ring for 40 dol'la.  YES I DID~~
> 
> It came from a country antique show and I couldn't believe my luck...pictures soon.  I also show you a little trick with rubber bands and rings.



Can't wait to see the pictures of your treasure finds!!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> Can't wait to see the pictures of your treasure finds!!


well here ya go; my 40 dollars coral/SS flower ring, signed no less. Found at a country antique  show.

It's a huge size (10) so I used a small braiding rubber band to help keep it on my finger.  When I just want the flower to fly solo I anchor it with a small silver band OR for more impact a wide one.


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> well here ya go; my 40 dollars coral/SS flower ring, signed no less. Found at a country antique  show.
> 
> It's a huge size (10) so I used a small braiding rubber band to help keep it on my finger.  When I just want the flower to fly solo I anchor it with a small silver band OR for more impact a wide one.



That's an awesome ring!  What a find!    It's hard to find antique shows around here now days.  I use to find some of the best deals at little antique shows. 

You definitely found a treasure with this one.  And I love the idea of the rubber band.  I never thought about using something like that.   My problem is finding them big enough.  I inherited my Dad's hands so I normally wear a 9-9.5 on my ring fingers & 10 or larger on my other fingers.


----------



## BigPurseSue

That ring is gorgeous, Susie! And I love the band that you're wearing it with. What a great find!


There are no more little antique stores around here. The antique shows are gone too. I think ebay did them all in. That and the fact that the local malls stopped hosting them. I really, really miss shopping them.  It used to be such fun.


----------



## cdtracing

My husband gave me a NA cuff & matching earring for my birthday!!!  Pictures coming soon.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> My husband gave me a NA cuff & matching earring for my birthday!!!  Pictures coming soon.


GOOD DH!!! You've trained him well:greengrin:


----------



## cdtracing

A little late but I had to get a new phone, LOL  Here's a pic of the signed Sterling NA bracelet & earrings my hubby bought for me for my birthday!  I think he got this on the Rez when he was in South Dakota.  He saw the set & wanted me to have it.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> A little late but I had to get a new phone, LOL  Here's a pic of the signed Sterling NA bracelet & earrings my hubby bought for me for my birthday!  I think he got this on the Rez when he was in South Dakota.  He saw the set & wanted me to have it.




so precious wow, what a guy! You will wear the heck out of those pieces especially during the blue days of Summer!

I'm starting to dig the bear claw (real claws too) in NAJ!  I saw this bolo but decided not to buy it because I just secured another one a month earlier.  

Your pieces are very special congratulations!!!


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> so precious wow, what a guy! You will wear the heck out of those pieces especially during the blue days of Summer!
> 
> I'm starting to dig the bear claw (real claws too) in NAJ!  I saw this bolo but decided not to buy it because I just secured another one a month earlier.
> 
> Your pieces are very special congratulations!!!



Thank you.  He told me he wanted to get a matching pendant but there wasn't one.  I love this style & yes, the color is awesome for the Summer!   Actually, I wear turquoise year round.  I think it looks spectacular with black.  I love the bear claws, too.  I've been looking at a pendant at a local store that sells NAJ but I'm trying to put off getting it until after we get finished with a backyard landscaping project that is currently on going.  The owner of the store knows I'm interested in it so she has kind of hidden it in the display case.  LOL

That bolo you have on is spectacular!


----------



## jellyv

What a pretty set, CD! I like the bear tracks design. 

The jewelry with "bear claws" uses a resin material to imitate the real thing, btw.


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> What a pretty set, CD! I like the bear tracks design.
> 
> The jewelry with "bear claws" uses a resin material to imitate the real thing, btw.


Yes you're right about the resin.  This piece I was showing was the real thing and the price point proved it, hence I no buy, LOL.  It's an old pawn item they cleaned up.


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> What a pretty set, CD! I like the bear tracks design.
> 
> The jewelry with "bear claws" uses a resin material to imitate the real thing, btw.



Thanks, Jellyv!  Yes, most of the "bear claws" are a resin material.  The pendant I've been looking at is a signed authentic one bought from an estate out west & has been verified.  It's expensive as well & not an amount I able to spend right now.  I do love it, though.


----------



## crosso

Hello all - I wonder if any of you might be able to help me with any insight into this bracelet, as I know nothing about Native American jewelry or little about turquoise. This was my grandmother's cuff. All I can tell you is it is old. She lived in San Antonio, TX and my grandfather was military. I do know that she traveled with him across the Southwest (NM and AZ) when they were going to CA to embark for Japan during the Occupation after WWII and upon their return back to TX, so I wonder if the bracelet may have been bought during one of these trips and from that time period. There are no hallmarks, but it does look authentic Navajo from what I can tell. I'm not sure if the brownish marks on the stones are damage or part of the 'matrix' of the turquoise. Any insights or comments would be most appreciated!


----------



## jellyv

crosso said:


> Hello all - I wonder if any of you might be able to help me with any insight into this bracelet, as I know nothing about Native American jewelry or little about turquoise. This was my grandmother's cuff. All I can tell you is it is old. She lived in San Antonio, TX and my grandfather was military. I do know that she traveled with him across the Southwest (NM and AZ) when they were going to CA to embark for Japan during the Occupation after WWII and upon their return back to TX, so I wonder if the bracelet may have been bought during one of these trips and from that time period. There are no hallmarks, but it does look authentic Navajo from what I can tell. I'm not sure if the brownish marks on the stones are damage or part of the 'matrix' of the turquoise. Any insights or comments would be most appreciated!




Hi,
It's a very nice vintage Navajo cuff with attractive stones. I think you can count on it being postwar, but this is a style that lasted a long time. The little horizontal bar shape behind two stones looks like a reinforcement, not something that would have been done normally, possibly done at a later time.

How heavy is it, do you know? The gram weight indicates something about the quality. It looks like it probably has a nice weight (more is better than less for this type of bracelet). The twisted wire on the bezels could be hand done. Enjoy it!


----------



## crosso

jellyv said:


> Hi,
> It's a very nice vintage Navajo cuff with attractive stones. I think you can count on it being postwar, but this is a style that lasted a long time. The little horizontal bar shape behind two stones looks like a reinforcement, not something that would have been done normally, possibly done at a later time.
> 
> How heavy is it, do you know? The gram weight indicates something about the quality. It looks like it probably has a nice weight (more is better than less for this type of bracelet). The twisted wire on the bezels could be hand done. Enjoy it!


Thanks so much for your comments, jellyv! I was hoping you would respond, as you seem very knowledgeable about NA jewelry and turquoise and have some gorgeous pieces! I weighed it at lunch today and it is 57 grams. Not sure if this is heavy for this sort of bracelet, but it does FEEL heavy in the hand. Post WWII feels right too, as I was thinking late '40s, early '50s if my hunch is right. Unfortunately, both my grandmother and mother have passed on, so there is no way to know for sure. 
I took a closer pic of one of the outside bezels and I think you may be right about that too, as there are some small inconsistencies in the rope that look hand done to me. 
Is there any way to track the type of stone? I know certain mines produced a "typical" type of turquoise for that particular mine, but I think others produces a variety of looks, is that true? Are the stones badly damaged in this, do you think, or is the wear of it appropriate for what I think is the approximate age? Is it particularly valuable? I'm not looking to appraise or sell it ever, just curious about what I have. It's been sitting in my jewelry box for ages and I've always been curious, just did not know anyone to ask! Purse forum is such a great resource in this way!


----------



## cdtracing

crosso said:


> Hello all - I wonder if any of you might be able to help me with any insight into this bracelet, as I know nothing about Native American jewelry or little about turquoise. This was my grandmother's cuff. All I can tell you is it is old. She lived in San Antonio, TX and my grandfather was military. I do know that she traveled with him across the Southwest (NM and AZ) when they were going to CA to embark for Japan during the Occupation after WWII and upon their return back to TX, so I wonder if the bracelet may have been bought during one of these trips and from that time period. There are no hallmarks, but it does look authentic Navajo from what I can tell. I'm not sure if the brownish marks on the stones are damage or part of the 'matrix' of the turquoise. Any insights or comments would be most appreciated!



Hi, Crosso.  Like Jellyv said, this is a very nice vintage NA bracelet.  I agree that it's probably post war.  It looks hand made & the stones look to be genuine mined turquoise, not man made.  The turquoise are really nice stones with great color.  The brownish marks are part of the matrix.  From your pictures, they do not looked to be cracked or damaged.  You can take it to your jeweler & have the metal tested to see if it's sterling (92.5% silver content) or coin silver (can be 80-90% silver content).  

It's not uncommon for early pieces to be unsigned.  It's a beautiful piece.  Wear it in good health.  You can Google turquoise mines of the southwest & can find maps of mines that have examples of the turquoise that mine produces/produced.  Here's a page that does explain some about turquoise mines & stones.

http://tucsonturquoise.com/


----------



## jellyv

Thanks, crosso, yes I spend a lot of time on this subject!

57 grams is a very good weight, indicating quality. It is heavy for the size. The construction of your cuff, with two bars of silver that are fairly beefy that meet at the terminals, is a 40s-50s thing.  

Stones: The last closeup of your stone you posted makes it look like Blue Gem, which is a very high-quality stone (from a now-depleted mine). But I'd have to see good pics of all stones to tell. The patina of your stones looks totally normal, as in, just fine and not damaged (but better pics would go far to help an opinion). It's typical for turq stones to acquire at least some change of surface over time.

The short answer about telling about which mine: very difficult, even for professionals, if you don't have actual provenance from the person who made the piece.  The complication is that many of the mines produced a range of color stones. It's a tough subject, coupled with the fact that stones can change color over time, too, if their chemistry permits that.


----------



## crosso

Thanks so much for the replies, CD and JellyV I am so excited to learn more! Seems like turquoise is a very complex subject (much like jade, which has taken me years to learn much of anything about) and I'm now very intrigued by it. I sure wish I had found out more about it before my mother passed away. I've always thought it was a cool piece - my grandmother had quite a bit of amazing, unique jewelry that I've inherited and I love having them as part of her history, just wish I knew more of the story behind them! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me!


----------



## cdtracing

Just thought I would post a pic of the piece I'm wearing today.  Since I had a lot to do, I went simple with this one piece.  It's old...going back to the 60's.  Signed with hallmark for Roy Anderson Jr who worked under supervision of White Hogan.  It's a pendant & a brooch/pin.  It's a large stand out piece.  I wish the bale was larger as I want to find another chain for it.


----------



## chessmont

cdtracing said:


> Just thought I would post a pic of the piece I'm wearing today.  Since I had a lot to do, I went simple with this one piece.  It's old...going back to the 60's.  Signed with hallmark for Roy Anderson Jr who worked under supervision of White Hogan.  It's a pendant & a brooch/pin.  It's a large stand out piece.  I wish the bale was larger as I want to find another chain for it.



Just beautiful!  Would it diminish the value if you had a larger bale put on it?


----------



## cdtracing

chessmont said:


> Just beautiful!  Would it diminish the value if you had a larger bale put on it?



Thanks, chessmont.  That's a good question since I'm not sure.  I try not to alter any of my NA jewelry.  I've always thought it may devalue a piece if it was altered.  Maybe someone else that knows more than I can chime in with some advise.


----------



## BigPurseSue

cdtracing said:


> Just thought I would post a pic of the piece I'm wearing today.  Since I had a lot to do, I went simple with this one piece.  It's old...going back to the 60's.  Signed with hallmark for Roy Anderson Jr who worked under supervision of White Hogan.  It's a pendant & a brooch/pin.  It's a large stand out piece.  I wish the bale was larger as I want to find another chain for it.


Oh that is just knock-out gorgeous!   I had a problem with a couple of NA pendants that the bales were small and the silver chains I paired them with just didn't seem to fit the look. I bought a black leather cord and that looked o.k. but wasn't the look I wanted to wear all the time. 

A couple of options. I bought a James Avery "heavy spiga" chain and it looks surprisingly nice with my NA pendants. It has a smooth, semi-oxidized look, in contrast to the shiny, diamond-cut look of many silver chains. 
http://www.jamesavery.com/product/J...vy-Spiga-Chain/pc/2176/c/0/sc/2183/157781.uts

Carolyn Pollack, who does the southwestern jewelry for cable shopping channels, has in years past manufactured a few chains that work well with NA pendants with small bails. You need to look on Ebay though for them. 

For that pendant I would want to stick with a simple chain and stay away from anything that would detract from the beauty of the stone and pendant. It really is lovely!


----------



## cdtracing

BigPurseSue said:


> Oh that is just knock-out gorgeous!   I had a problem with a couple of NA pendants that the bales were small and the silver chains I paired them with just didn't seem to fit the look. I bought a black leather cord and that looked o.k. but wasn't the look I wanted to wear all the time.
> 
> A couple of options. I bought a James Avery "heavy spiga" chain and it looks surprisingly nice with my NA pendants. It has a smooth, semi-oxidized look, in contrast to the shiny, diamond-cut look of many silver chains.
> http://www.jamesavery.com/product/J...vy-Spiga-Chain/pc/2176/c/0/sc/2183/157781.uts
> 
> Carolyn Pollack, who does the southwestern jewelry for cable shopping channels, has in years past manufactured a few chains that work well with NA pendants with small bails. You need to look on Ebay though for them.
> 
> For that pendant I would want to stick with a simple chain and stay away from anything that would detract from the beauty of the stone and pendant. It really is lovely!



Thanks, BPS.  I agree that a simple chain would look the best with this piece.  Right now, the only chain I have to wear with it  is a rope chain.  I do have a U shaped neck wire that will fit through the bale but this pendant is heavy & it pulls on the wire.  I don't want it to pull it off my neck.  Thanks for the link & the suggestions.  I'll definitely check it out.  I tried it on a leather cord but didn't care for the look.


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> Just thought I would post a pic of the piece I'm wearing today.  Since I had a lot to do, I went simple with this one piece.  It's old...going back to the 60's.  Signed with hallmark for Roy Anderson Jr who worked under supervision of White Hogan.  It's a pendant & a brooch/pin.  It's a large stand out piece.  I wish the bale was larger as I want to find another chain for it.




Wow, CD, super impressive piece. As you know I'm sure, the White Hogan was a high-prestige shop for great Navajo work. Does the back of your pendant have the hogan emblem as part of the stamp, maybe along with his initials?

I'd like to see the pendant put onto a Navajo handmade link chain necklace, which comes in various gauges. Can't see the size of your bale, but maybe you could find a bigger bale that just could be added to this one, in case yours is soldered on permanently. Like, sliding a new larger bale onto it.


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Wow, CD, super impressive piece. As you know I'm sure, the White Hogan was a high-prestige shop for great Navajo work. Does the back of your pendant have the hogan emblem as part of the stamp, maybe along with his initials?
> 
> I'd like to see the pendant put onto a Navajo handmade link chain necklace, which comes in various gauges. Can't see the size of your bale, but maybe you could find a bigger bale that just could be added to this one, in case yours is soldered on permanently. Like, sliding a new larger bale onto it.



It's hallmarked with RA for Roy Anderson & has been verified from "Hallmarks of the Southwest" by Barton Wright.  It's also been verified that Roy Anderson worked under the direction of White Hogan.  I am looking at a White Hogan piece & am really wanting to get it.  However, funds have to go to a landscaping & fencing project for the back yard for the time being.  

Here's a couple of pics of the bale & the hallmark.  Yes, I would like to find a Navajo link chain for it.  I haven't thought about having another bale added to it.  Thanks for the idea.  I just don't want it to be devalued or ruined.


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> It's hallmarked with RA for Roy Anderson & has been verified from "Hallmarks of the Southwest" by Barton Wright.  It's also been verified that Roy Anderson worked under the direction of White Hogan.  I am looking at a White Hogan piece & am really wanting to get it.  However, funds have to go to a landscaping & fencing project for the back yard for the time being.
> 
> .




Yep, if you are lucky you could leave your existing bale and find one that could be opened up and added into the existing one, just thinking out loud. Thanks for showing the hallmark: I was curious because some makers have the WH stamp in addition to their initials. I have a necklace like that, by John Begay using a classic Kenneth Begay circle design.


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Yep, if you are lucky you could leave your existing bale and find one that could be opened up and added into the existing one, just thinking out loud. Thanks for showing the hallmark: I was curious because some makers have the WH stamp in addition to their initials. I have a necklace like that, by John Begay using a classic Kenneth Begay circle design.



John Begay is an awesome silversmith & does beautiful work.  The other piece that I've been looking at has the White Hogan hallmark on it.   Please post a pic of your JB necklace.  I would love to see it!


----------



## jellyv

CD, I sure will once I take some pics. It's a piece I wear often.


----------



## susieserb

My get up for Sunday's outing.  I'll find any excuse to wear my NAJ...even going to Walmart and Walgreens (((truth)))


----------



## chessmont

susieserb said:


> My get up for Sunday's outing.  I'll find any excuse to wear my NAJ...even going to Walmart and Walgreens (((truth)))



Awesome!


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> My get up for Sunday's outing.  I'll find any excuse to wear my NAJ...even going to Walmart and Walgreens (((truth)))



Love your look!  That coral bracelet is spectacular!!  I've been wanting a coral bracelet but haven't found one that speaks to me yet.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> Love your look!  That coral bracelet is spectacular!!  I've been wanting a coral bracelet but haven't found one that speaks to me yet.


IKR

This coral cuff was huge meant for a man's wrist.  The dealer (who's connected with artisans) had the bracelet pared back so I could wear it. So keep that in mind during your search and good luck!!


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> IKR
> 
> This coral cuff was huge meant for a man's wrist.  The dealer (who's connected with artisans) had the bracelet pared back so I could wear it. So keep that in mind during your search and good luck!!



I love the size of yours, Susie!!  I've been looking at a double row coral NA bracelet at a local store.  They sell new NA jewelry they buy from contacts they have on the reservations & with NA silversmiths.  They don't carry a lot of dead pawn because of the laws about having the paper trail  & documentation when selling NA jewelry but they do have a few really nice pieces.  I really want something larger than the 2 row.  They also have a Zuni coral needlepoint bracelet that is wider but it's made for a smaller wrist.  I'm drawn to it but it's way too small.  They have a super large turquoise bracelet that is probably the most beautiful bracelet I've ever seen.  It's definitely museum quality & it's not for sale for any price.   I told them if they ever decided to sell it, I wanted the opportunity to buy it.

I'll just keep looking for the coral bracelet that speaks to me.  I know it's out there somewhere.  Probably with the oversized turquoise ring I want for my index finger. LOL


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> I love the size of yours, Susie!!  I've been looking at a double row coral NA bracelet at a local store.  They sell new NA jewelry they buy from contacts they have on the reservations & with NA silversmiths.  They don't carry a lot of dead pawn because of the laws about having the paper trail  & documentation when selling NA jewelry but they do have a few really nice pieces.  I really want something larger than the 2 row.  They also have a Zuni coral needlepoint bracelet that is wider but it's made for a smaller wrist.  I'm drawn to it but it's way too small.  They have a super large turquoise bracelet that is probably the most beautiful bracelet I've ever seen.  It's definitely museum quality & it's not for sale for any price.   I told them if they ever decided to sell it, I wanted the opportunity to buy it.
> 
> I'll just keep looking for the coral bracelet that speaks to me.  I know it's out there somewhere.  Probably with the oversized turquoise ring I want for my index finger. LOL


You and I speak the same language~


----------



## jellyv

Gals,
A couple of fun things. First the John Begay necklace, another White Hogan artist. His stamp has both a hogan and his initials. It has quite tiny handmade silver beads, giving it a delicacy you don't often see.

Then my craaaazy bow and arrow earrings from a favorite of mine, Cody Sanderson (Navajo). They are gigantic--see the quarter scale. As you can see, the arrow was made as a separate part and then inset into the bow. I love these so much.


----------



## jellyv

Also: great pic, Susie. You're our poster girl for maximalism![emoji1][emoji106]


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Gals,
> A couple of fun things. First the John Begay necklace, another White Hogan artist. His stamp has both a hogan and his initials. It has quite tiny handmade silver beads, giving it a delicacy you don't often see.
> 
> Then my craaaazy bow and arrow earrings from a favorite of mine, Cody Sanderson (Navajo). They are gigantic--see the quarter scale. As you can see, the arrow was made as a separate part and then inset into the bow. I love these so much.



Those are absolutely marvelous pieces, Jellyv!!  The Begay necklace is amazing!  The silver work is beautifully done!


----------



## jellyv

Thanks, CD.  It's fun to see everyone's things and to share with such knowledgeable and enthusiastic collectors.

 I really enjoy some of the super contemporary makers, along with the more recognizably traditional.  Two of my very favorite smiths these days are Cody Sanderson and Jennifer Curtis. I have a killer Jennifer cuff that I'll share sometime...very powerful. Wonderwoman territory.


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Thanks, CD.  It's fun to see everyone's things and to share with such knowledgeable and enthusiastic collectors.
> 
> I really enjoy some of the super contemporary makers, along with the more recognizably traditional.  Two of my very favorite smiths these days are Cody Sanderson and Jennifer Curtis. I have a killer Jennifer cuff that I'll share sometime...very powerful. Wonderwoman territory.



Can't wait to see the pics!!  I love Wonderwoman territory!!


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> Thanks, CD.  It's fun to see everyone's things and to share with such knowledgeable and enthusiastic collectors.
> 
> I really enjoy some of the super contemporary makers, along with the more recognizably traditional.  Two of my very favorite smiths these days are Cody Sanderson and Jennifer Curtis. I have a killer Jennifer cuff that I'll share sometime...very powerful. Wonderwoman territory.


Oh my YES please share!!! Wonder Woman wear? I can relate!!


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> Gals,
> A couple of fun things. First the John Begay necklace, another White Hogan artist. His stamp has both a hogan and his initials. It has quite tiny handmade silver beads, giving it a delicacy you don't often see.
> 
> Then my craaaazy bow and arrow earrings from a favorite of mine, Cody Sanderson (Navajo). They are gigantic--see the quarter scale. As you can see, the arrow was made as a separate part and then inset into the bow. I love these so much.


These earrings are insane!! I would love to see a modeling shot to get the total perspective, wow.


----------



## jellyv

susieserb said:


> These earrings are insane!! I would love to see a modeling shot to get the total perspective, wow.




Lol Susie, you're right, they need a mod pic to show the fun scale properly. They aren't for the faint of heart, for sure. [emoji1] I'll get to it, plus my Wonderwoman cuff, before long.


----------



## jellyv

Okay, here's a terrible selfie showing the scale of my big bow and arrow earrings. Godawful room lighting. But gives an idea.


----------



## divnanata

I recently purchased this Hopi bear claw necklace from a local antique store. I talked to the dealer and she told me her story of living for a while with a Native American tribe and how she amassed a collection. This particular piece has an etching of a bear on an ivory background. The claws appear to be real. I even compared them to those of a stuffed grizzly in the same shop. But I don't think they are bear claws  -more like badger??


----------



## divnanata

These are cuffs from the same dealer that I want. The big turquoise one belonged to the wife of a chief. It's pretty small on my wrist but i will find a way!


----------



## jellyv

divnanata said:


> I recently purchased this Hopi bear claw necklace from a local antique store. I talked to the dealer and she told me her story of living for a while with a Native American tribe and how she amassed a collection. This particular piece has an etching of a bear on an ivory background. The claws appear to be real. I even compared them to those of a stuffed grizzly in the same shop. But I don't think they are bear claws  -more like badger??




How much faith do you have in this seller? I suggest getting any info from the dealer in writing. As you know, the majority of so-called claws are in fact resin, not real animal claws. 

This is not a Hopi piece. Navajo made.


----------



## divnanata

jellyv said:


> How much faith do you have in this seller? I suggest getting any info from the dealer in writing. As you know, the majority of so-called claws are in fact resin, not real animal claws.
> 
> This is not a Hopi piece. Navajo made.



Yes  I boobed it up! So much info was coming at me at the time. The seller bought the piece for herself in the 70's in Santa Fe.It isn't antique but vintage = probably from the 50's according to her. It is Navajo but she, herself, supposedly lived with a Hopi tribe back in her finding herself hippy days. The bear claw part she did not verify but they sure look real. Susieserb (my sister)  had warned me that bear claw is extremely rare so I was doubtful. But the claws appear to be legit from some kind of animal. You can see icky marrow-y looking stuff down inside and each claw is different with surface details that look completely natural. In any case it is certainly worth the money I spent!


----------



## divnanata

Oh - I forgot to add that she had written down that the stones were from the Morenci mine in Arizona. They are really pretty!


----------



## jellyv

Nice picture, and striking necklace! Congrats. Yes I saw that you have a collecting co-conspirator, lucky gal--my daughter is into NA stuff, and we have somewhat "matching" collections ever since she was small. She has two mini-squash necklaces, one very interesting old Zuni one from the 1940s.
That's amazing that the dealer hung with Hopis, who are famously private and pretty darn inaccessible in location.

Morenci? Score. [emoji106]


----------



## cdtracing

divnanata said:


> I recently purchased this Hopi bear claw necklace from a local antique store. I talked to the dealer and she told me her story of living for a while with a Native American tribe and how she amassed a collection. This particular piece has an etching of a bear on an ivory background. The claws appear to be real. I even compared them to those of a stuffed grizzly in the same shop. But I don't think they are bear claws  -more like badger??





divnanata said:


> These are cuffs from the same dealer that I want. The big turquoise one belonged to the wife of a chief. It's pretty small on my wrist but i will find a way!





jellyv said:


> How much faith do you have in this seller? I suggest getting any info from the dealer in writing. As you know, the majority of so-called claws are in fact resin, not real animal claws.
> 
> This is not a Hopi piece. Navajo made.



WOW!!  Those are some incredible statement pieces!  Just beautiful!  Like Jellyv has stated, these are Navajo pieces & genuine bear claws are *extremely rare*.  Most of it is in museums & what is in the market is usually resin faux claws.  There are genuine claw pieces out there & they are usually badger or Coyote.  It's best to get as much info in writing as you can from the seller in cases such as this.  One thought though, take the necklace to a taxidermist who deals with preserving wild animals.  They may can determine for you if the claws are genuine & what kinds of claws they are.
Genuine or faux, it's an incredibly beautiful piece with outstanding workmanship.  

The cuffs are gorgeous.  I'm on the hunt for a super sized cuff & ring myself.  Just haven't found the right one yet.  What stone is the second cuff?  They are all fantastic scores!


----------



## cdtracing

divnanata said:


> Oh - I forgot to add that she had written down that the stones were from the Morenci mine in Arizona. They are really pretty!



Moreci turquoise is a definite plus!! What a find!!


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Okay, here's a terrible selfie showing the scale of my big bow and arrow earrings. Godawful room lighting. But gives an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3094769



Those are really large!  I love them!  They look great on you, by the way!!


----------



## jellyv

Thank you, CD.  They're extreme but I am gaga for this guy's work. Gosh, I look messy.[emoji28]


----------



## susieserb

jellyv said:


> Okay, here's a terrible selfie showing the scale of my big bow and arrow earrings. Godawful room lighting. But gives an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3094769


Oh TY~ truly impacting and edgy at the same time.  Great selfie (not bad at all?)??


----------



## BigPurseSue

jellyv said:


> Okay, here's a terrible selfie showing the scale of my big bow and arrow earrings. Godawful room lighting. But gives an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3094769


 
Omigosh, I love those earrings! And they look great on you. What a wonderful find.


----------



## BigPurseSue

divnanata said:


> Yes  I boobed it up! So much info was coming at me at the time. The seller bought the piece for herself in the 70's in Santa Fe.It isn't antique but vintage = probably from the 50's according to her. It is Navajo but she, herself, supposedly lived with a Hopi tribe back in her finding herself hippy days. The bear claw part she did not verify but they sure look real. Susieserb (my sister)  had warned me that bear claw is extremely rare so I was doubtful. But the claws appear to be legit from some kind of animal. You can see icky marrow-y looking stuff down inside and each claw is different with surface details that look completely natural. In any case it is certainly worth the money I spent!


 
That necklace is to die for! And so is the ring. The word amazing doesn't even begin to do it justice. 

I would take it to a taxidermist to see what they say, just for curiosity's sake. But from the photo they do look like real big animal claws. And they're certainly not coyote or racoon claws. 

But omigosh, that is gorgeous! 

I've heard of hippie-types hanging with the Hopis back in the day. 

Love the photos that everyone's sharing.


----------



## cdtracing

It finally arrived today!!!!   I'm so in love!!  My husband found this in Vancouver, Canada a few weeks ago when he was there on business & called me with the info.  I contacted the seller & we agreed on a price.  I've been like a kid anticipating Christmas waiting for her to arrive!  It's a Zuni piece from the 50's.  And it looks so much like Susieserb's outstanding coral bracelet except it's not as wide & not 4 row!  It's a perfect fit!  It must be destiny!! LOL


----------



## chessmont

cdtracing said:


> It finally arrived today!!!!   I'm so in love!!  My husband found this in Vancouver, Canada a few weeks ago when he was there on business & called me with the info.  I contacted the seller & we agreed on a price.  I've been like a kid anticipating Christmas waiting for her to arrive!  It's a Zuni piece from the 50's.  And it looks so much like Susieserb's outstanding coral bracelet except it's not as wide & not 4 row!  It's a perfect fit!  It must be destiny!! LOL



Just beautiful!


----------



## cdtracing

chessmont said:


> Just beautiful!



Thank you, chessmont!  I haven't taken her off!  I was surprised when the package arrived; I wasn't expecting it til next week due to customs being so slow at times.


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> It finally arrived today!!!!   I'm so in love!!  My husband found this in Vancouver, Canada a few weeks ago when he was there on business & called me with the info.  I contacted the seller & we agreed on a price.  I've been like a kid anticipating Christmas waiting for her to arrive!  It's a Zuni piece from the 50's




Wow! [emoji12][emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;I've wanted a cuff in this style for a long time. Yours is so wonderful. I can tell that the stones are beautiful, and nice stamping on the silver. These rectangular row bracelets have a particularly cool look and are far scarcer than the snake eye rows. Enjoy!


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Wow! [emoji12][emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;I've wanted a cuff in this style for a long time. Yours is so wonderful. I can tell that the stones are beautiful, and nice stamping on the silver. These rectangular row bracelets have a particularly cool look and are far scarcer than the snake eye rows. Enjoy!



Thank you so much, Jellyv!  The pictures that were sent to me just didn't do her justice!  The stones & detail work are so much better in person.  I had been looking at a snake eye bracelet for a while but something kept telling me to wait.  Now, I'm glad I did.  I was so surprised when my husband sent me a picture of it & told me to call the store & I got this at a better price than the snake eye.  I plan to accompany my husband to Vancouver on his next trip in a few months & will be doing some shopping at their store!


----------



## BigPurseSue

cdtracing said:


> It finally arrived today!!!!   I'm so in love!!  My husband found this in Vancouver, Canada a few weeks ago when he was there on business & called me with the info.  I contacted the seller & we agreed on a price.  I've been like a kid anticipating Christmas waiting for her to arrive!  It's a Zuni piece from the 50's.  And it looks so much like Susieserb's outstanding coral bracelet except it's not as wide & not 4 row!  It's a perfect fit!  It must be destiny!! LOL


 
Wow! I love it!  I love the blue. That's the sort of blue that just makes you happy to look at it. Your husband has an excellent eye.


----------



## cdtracing

BigPurseSue said:


> Wow! I love it!  I love the blue. That's the sort of blue that just makes you happy to look at it. Your husband has an excellent eye.



Thanks for your kind words, BPS!  Yes, he does have a good eye & he knows my tastes.  He likes things that are different from what you would normally see.   I find the blue mesmerizing!  I've worn her all day!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> It finally arrived today!!!!   I'm so in love!!  My husband found this in Vancouver, Canada a few weeks ago when he was there on business & called me with the info.  I contacted the seller & we agreed on a price.  I've been like a kid anticipating Christmas waiting for her to arrive!  It's a Zuni piece from the 50's.  And it looks so much like Susieserb's outstanding coral bracelet except it's not as wide & not 4 row!  It's a perfect fit!  It must be destiny!! LOL


The blue is just stunning, simply gorgeous.  This thing is so beautiful and yes I'm bias but now I wish I had a blue model along with a coral...gee, thanks allot grrrrrrrr


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> The blue is just stunning, simply gorgeous.  This thing is so beautiful and yes I'm bias but now I wish I had a blue model along with a coral...gee, thanks allot grrrrrrrr



Thanks, Susie!  Didn't mean to start you craving.  LOL!  And I would love to find a coral one like yours!  I think they would look stunning together.   I almost died when DH sent me a picture of it with the store number to call.  I had been looking at a snake eye bracelet but something kept telling me to wait.  I'm so glad I did because if I had bought the snake eye, I wouldn't have been able to get this one right away!


----------



## susieserb

For FALL FLING!!!


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> For FALL FLING!!!



What a great picture!!  As always, so stylish!  Love the teardrop earrings!!


----------



## chessmont

susieserb said:


> For FALL FLING!!!



Love that fab ring!


----------



## cdtracing

Errand running today!


----------



## chessmont

all gorgeous!


----------



## cdtracing

chessmont said:


> all gorgeous!



Thanks, Chessmont.  I had people stopping me & commenting on my jewelry today.  It's not something you see a lot of around here.


----------



## jellyv

Fab and bold, CD! [emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Fab and bold, CD! [emoji122]&#127995;[emoji122]&#127995;



Thanks, Jellyv!  I was in the mood to go big, today! LOL


----------



## BigPurseSue

Was reading a biography of the scientist Marie Curie. It said that one of the very few pieces of jewelry she wore in her lifetime was an American Indian-made silver and turquoise necklace she bought in Santa Fe during her whirlwind American visit in 1921. Thought that was kinda cool.


----------



## cdtracing

BigPurseSue said:


> Was reading a biography of the scientist Marie Curie. It said that one of the very few pieces of jewelry she wore in her lifetime was an American Indian-made silver and turquoise necklace she bought in Santa Fe during her whirlwind American visit in 1921. Thought that was kinda cool.



That is cool!!  Thanks for sharing the info, BPS!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> Errand running today!


I'm down with you woman.  This stuff is just too gorgy to leave sitting in a box or drawer.  Iris Apfel is my inspiration!!!

Love how you go big and don't go home!!! Everything looks so wonderful on you.


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> I'm down with you woman.  This stuff is just too gorgy to leave sitting in a box or drawer.  Iris Apfel is my inspiration!!!
> 
> Love how you go big and don't go home!!! Everything looks so wonderful on you.



Thank you for your kind words.  I'm not a petite lady at all.  I'm 5'10" & while I'm not fat, I could stand to drop a few pounds according to my Dr. LOL  Delicate jewelry has never been my style.  While I like the looks of it, small stuff just doesn't show up on me.  I've always preferred Big & Bold, especially when it comes to my NA jewelry.  I had people stop me all day long complimenting me on my turquoise.  I felt like a NA princess! lol


----------



## chessmont

cdtracing said:


> Thank you for your kind words.  I'm not a petite lady at all.  I'm 5'10" & while I'm not fat, I could stand to drop a few pounds according to my Dr. LOL  Delicate jewelry has never been my style.  While I like the looks of it, small stuff just doesn't show up on me.  I've always preferred Big & Bold, especially when it comes to my NA jewelry.  I had people stop me all day long complimenting me on my turquoise.  I felt like a NA princess! lol



Cool!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> Thank you for your kind words.  I'm not a petite lady at all.  I'm 5'10" & while I'm not fat, I could stand to drop a few pounds according to my Dr. LOL  Delicate jewelry has never been my style.  While I like the looks of it, small stuff just doesn't show up on me.  I've always preferred Big & Bold, especially when it comes to my NA jewelry.  I had people stop me all day long complimenting me on my turquoise.  I felt like a NA princess! lol


Delicate jewelry....it's okay~ STATEMENT PIECES ooooo la la~


----------



## susieserb

Layering an old pawn cuff with a contemporary bracelet....it just works.


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> Layering an old pawn cuff with a contemporary bracelet....it just works.



That's definitely a great stack!  Mixing the old with the new really makes your style unique!!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> That's definitely a great stack!  Mixing the old with the new really makes your style unique!!


I'm starting to do this practice more and more; especially for winter when the turquoise pieces are not worn as much.  

Also old sterling sliver is awesome sauce with Chanel silver chains


----------



## Albamania

If anyone has money to burn and an inherent trust of eBay provenance, might I suggest this little number...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELVIS-PRE...470900?hash=item3ab88ed274:g:fdgAAOSwxCxT0xXN


----------



## susieserb

Albamania said:


> If anyone has money to burn and an inherent trust of eBay provenance, might I suggest this little number...
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELVIS-PRE...470900?hash=item3ab88ed274:g:fdgAAOSwxCxT0xXN


STOP THE BUS (the Elvis TOUR BUS).  HIS squash blossom necklace is in England?????


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> STOP THE BUS (the Elvis TOUR BUS).  HIS squash blossom necklace is in England?????



Wouldn't surprise me with Celebrity owned items being sold & collected all over the world. but you would think it would be here in the States.  Elvis owned more than one, tho.


----------



## BigPurseSue

I was at a holiday party the other night and a gentleman was wearing a bolo tie with a honking huge chunk of the most gorgeous turquoise. I thought of you Susie and your lovely bolo. I wanted to approach the gentleman and more closely ogle his turquoise but he was not the sort of gentleman you approach to ogle his jewelry without advanced social skills. Alas I lack that degree of social skills. Man that tie was something. It actually made the ratty plaid flannel shirt look chic.


----------



## susieserb

BigPurseSue said:


> I was at a holiday party the other night and a gentleman was wearing a bolo tie with a honking huge chunk of the most gorgeous turquoise. I thought of you Susie and your lovely bolo. I wanted to approach the gentleman and more closely ogle his turquoise but he was not the sort of gentleman you approach to ogle his jewelry without advanced social skills. Alas I lack that degree of social skills. Man that tie was something. It actually made the ratty plaid flannel shirt look chic.


OMYGOSH I was wearing mine around the house yesterday with sweats...YES I WAS.  We have my FIL on hospice in our home and we're just ragged.  Wearing the turquoise just felt warm and special to my dismal attire.


----------



## BigPurseSue

susieserb said:


> OMYGOSH I was wearing mine around the house yesterday with sweats...YES I WAS.  We have my FIL on hospice in our home and we're just ragged.  Wearing the turquoise just felt warm and special to my dismal attire.


 
I'm so sorry, Susie. That has to be so rough.  You're probably already aware of this, but in case you're not, Medicare will pay for hospice nurses to visit your home and help out occasionally. Please be good to yourself and find happiness, even the simple kind, in whatever ways you can.  It's a huge, hard job, and an emotionally harrowing one.


----------



## susieserb

BigPurseSue said:


> I'm so sorry, Susie. That has to be so rough.  You're probably already aware of this, but in case you're not, Medicare will pay for hospice nurses to visit your home and help out occasionally. Please be good to yourself and find happiness, even the simple kind, in whatever ways you can.  It's a huge, hard job, and an emotionally harrowing one.




Oh TY dear woman.  Yes we had some help from HN's, but you know they can not be there "all" the time and "things" do happen.  I went through this with my parents; it's an honor to help my FIL's journey to his forever home.  Hugs to you.


----------



## songofthesea

not sure if this is going to show up or not. newly acquired pieces!


----------



## songofthesea

ugh. can't get the pic to attach...new jewelry from Orville Tsinnie, Artie Yellowhorse and David Rosales. Will try again!


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> OMYGOSH I was wearing mine around the house yesterday with sweats...YES I WAS.  We have my FIL on hospice in our home and we're just ragged.  Wearing the turquoise just felt warm and special to my dismal attire.



Be sure to take care of yourself.  Went through this myself when my brother was diagnosed with colon cancer.  I would travel back home to help my SIL care for him & give her a break so she could get out some.  Hospice is a big help but they aren't there 24-7.  My family & I helped with the cleaning, cooking, ect.  My SIL was so devoted to my brother; she rarely left his side.  Big hugs to you.


----------



## cdtracing

songofthesea said:


> ugh. can't get the pic to attach...new jewelry from Orville Tsinnie, Artie Yellowhorse and David Rosales. Will try again!



Those are fantastic pieces!!!  I love the pendant on the Navajo pearls.  This was a big score!!


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> Be sure to take care of yourself.  Went through this myself when my brother was diagnosed with colon cancer.  I would travel back home to help my SIL care for him & give her a break so she could get out some.  Hospice is a big help but they aren't there 24-7.  My family & I helped with the cleaning, cooking, ect.  My SIL was so devoted to my brother; she rarely left his side.  Big hugs to you.


Humbling job and puts so many things in perspective right..BTW my FIL died this morning a very, very peaceful passing.  Not like my parents...no labored breathing, no struggle.

TY all for allowing me to talk about this.


----------



## susieserb

songofthesea said:


> ugh. can't get the pic to attach...new jewelry from Orville Tsinnie, Artie Yellowhorse and David Rosales. Will try again!


To take my mind off of the matter at hand I must say I really do love your pieces.  They are statements on their own yet can be layered if you ever want to go dramatic.  Smart move!!!!  I would buy everything you have here (I mean that).


----------



## susieserb

songofthesea said:


> ugh. can't get the pic to attach...new jewelry from Orville Tsinnie, Artie Yellowhorse and David Rosales. Will try again!


BTW Just looked at your handle and see you live in MASS.  We went to Rockport this summer and just fell in love with your state.  A whole different world you live in vs mine.


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> Humbling job and puts so many things in perspective right..BTW my FIL died this morning a very, very peaceful passing.  Not like my parents...no labored breathing, no struggle.
> 
> TY all for allowing me to talk about this.



I'm so sorry for your loss.  It's helpful to know his passing was peaceful.  My grandmother's passing was peaceful as well.  Sending prayers for you & your family. &#9825;&#9825;


----------



## chessmont

susieserb said:


> Humbling job and puts so many things in perspective right..BTW my FIL died this morning a very, very peaceful passing.  Not like my parents...no labored breathing, no struggle.
> 
> TY all for allowing me to talk about this.



So sorry for your loss - I am glad it was peaceful.


----------



## billysmom

songofthesea said:


> ugh. can't get the pic to attach...new jewelry from Orville Tsinnie, Artie Yellowhorse and David Rosales. Will try again!


Orville Tsinnie is one of my _favorite_ NA artists!!!!  Congratulations on your new pieces!


----------



## BigPurseSue

susieserb said:


> Humbling job and puts so many things in perspective right..BTW my FIL died this morning a very, very peaceful passing.  Not like my parents...no labored breathing, no struggle.
> 
> TY all for allowing me to talk about this.


 
I'm so sorry, Susie.


----------



## BigPurseSue

susieserb said:


> To take my mind off of the matter at hand I must say I really do love your pieces.  They are statements on their own yet can be layered if you ever want to go dramatic.  Smart move!!!!  I would buy everything you have here (I mean that).


 
Not only would I want to buy everything Songofthesea has, I would want to wear it all at the same time.   I LOVE the blue!


----------



## songofthesea

Bigpursesue, I am so sorry for your loss and hope that you will be comforted
By memories.

Thank you all for the compliments on my pieces! I'll be traveling to Arizona this summer and looking for an al joe beaded necklace or a turquoise ring. Who knows? I'll see something and fall in love I hope! What a great group this is, everyone here is so nice!


----------



## m76steve

Im not sure if this qualifies as native american, but the stone is from Arizona, this is 'Gem Selica', this stuff is fairly hard & naturally blue, this is just over 14cts in 18kt yellow gold.-stevie...


----------



## susieserb

m76steve said:


> Im not sure if this qualifies as native american, but the stone is from Arizona, this is 'Gem Selica', this stuff is fairly hard & naturally blue, this is just over 14cts in 18kt yellow gold.-stevie...


The stone is breathtakingly beautiful.  So peaceful and serene~


----------



## susieserb

Pam Grier came to the Star ceremony to congratulate Quentin for his STAR ceremony.


----------



## cdtracing

m76steve said:


> Im not sure if this qualifies as native american, but the stone is from Arizona, this is 'Gem Selica', this stuff is fairly hard & naturally blue, this is just over 14cts in 18kt yellow gold.-stevie...



Love the stone!  It's very ethereal!!


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> Pam Grier came to the Star ceremony to congratulate Quentin for his STAR ceremony.



Wow!!  Love her turquoise!!  Her coat is to die for!!!  I want one!!


----------



## susieserb

Morgan Freemans Necklace Was Our Favorite Accessory at the Golden Globes.  I have one too and love it.


----------



## Freckles1

susieserb said:


> Morgan Freemans Necklace Was Our Favorite Accessory at the Golden Globes.  I have one too and love it.




Good grief I missed him!! When was he on?


----------



## jellyv

susieserb said:


> Morgan Freemans Necklace Was Our Favorite Accessory at the Golden Globes.  I have one too and love it.




So cool!  I missed seeing it, too.


----------



## susieserb

He was a presenter and I went nuts over his necklace.  I was going to take a picture of the screen and thought no, wait for an internet pic.  The statement made about the picture was actually the title of the article showcasing Morgan.


----------



## songofthesea

My newest acquisition. Handmade beads by award winning Navajo artist Al Joe!


----------



## songofthesea

Pic 2


----------



## songofthesea

Let's try this again...


----------



## jellyv

songofthesea said:


> Let's try this again...




Beautiful! Now that's real value in silver jewelry.


----------



## songofthesea

jellyv said:


> Beautiful! Now that's real value in silver jewelry.


 
thank you!


he had a trunk show recently at a gallery near where I live and there was a necklace just like this only in 14kt yellow gold. it was absolutely magnificent. someone bought it. ENVY!!!!


----------



## susieserb

songofthesea said:


> Let's try this again...


So cool looking I adore how you layered this tribal piece with a diamond necklace.  Gorgeous.


----------



## songofthesea

susieserb said:


> So cool looking I adore how you layered this tribal piece with a diamond necklace.  Gorgeous.


 
thanks, Susie! I was wondering how it looked together. I love the diamond flower and also love the Navajo "pearls" (as I've been told they're called) and didn't want to give up either one because they "clashed" together. so I'm going to be wearing them together. the work that went into the fluted beads is amazing!


----------



## jellyv

Yes they do look great together! Navajo pearls (that is indeed what silver bead necklaces  are called) are really versatile in style, making them pairable with other jewelry types.


----------



## cdtracing

songofthesea said:


> Let's try this again...



Love this!!  Looks great paired with the modern diamond necklace, too!!


----------



## Violet Bleu

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread, but I have really enjoyed reading it in its entirety. Everyone has such beautiful pieces! [emoji4]


----------



## songofthesea

jellyv said:


> Yes they do look great together! Navajo pearls (that is indeed what silver bead necklaces  are called) are really versatile in style, making them pairable with other jewelry types.


 
thank you so much! I always feel like things look better on other people and that when I try them on I'm not getting the "look" I want...so thanks!


----------



## susieserb

Violet Bleu said:


> I don't have anything to contribute to this thread, but I have really enjoyed reading it in its entirety. Everyone has such beautiful pieces! [emoji4]


So cool, TY for saying as much!!


----------



## Violet Bleu

susieserb said:


> So cool, TY for saying as much!!




You're welcome! [emoji4]


----------



## cdtracing

Well...it's been a while since I've posted on this thread.  Thought I would post pics of some birthday acquisitions.
The shorter turquoise disc necklace & earrings are a set & is Santo Domingo Pueblo from the 60's.  The longer turquoise nugget necklace is a 3 strand made of  turquoise chunk & shell heishi.  It's vintage 60's & is Navajo.  The middle necklace is also vintage Navajo turquoise & heishi that I already owned.

The ring is a huge piece of Royston turquoise & made by Navajo artist Cecil Atencio.  It's a newer piece but I got it from a private collector.  This ring just spoke to me & I could not turn it down.  I loved the pattern & play of the turquoise.  It looks like a painting.  Pictures just don't do it any justice.  It's a show stopper, for sure!!


----------



## GoStanford

cdtracing said:


> Well...it's been a while since I've posted on this thread.  Thought I would post pics of some birthday acquisitions.



Your multi-strand necklaces are just beautiful!


----------



## BigPurseSue

Absolutely gorgeous pieces! I love the stone in that ring. Awesome! It looks great on your hand.


----------



## Compass Rose

Thank you for posting.  I just got back from Santa Fe and was overwhelmed with all the gorgeous pieces I got to see.  I love Native American jewelry.


----------



## cdtracing

GoStanford said:


> Your multi-strand necklaces are just beautiful!





BigPurseSue said:


> Absolutely gorgeous pieces! I love the stone in that ring. Awesome! It looks great on your hand.



Thanks, Ladies!  I was in a mood for a big stack that day.  I love turquoise & black.  Although, as hot as it is right now in the Deep South, I think I may go a little lighter on the stacks....at least until Fall. 

Yes, BPS, the stone in that ring is magical.  They had some other pieces with similar Royston Turquoise & they will give me first position to buy if they decide to sell them.  I just love the stone!


----------



## cdtracing

Compass Rose said:


> Thank you for posting.  I just got back from Santa Fe and was overwhelmed with all the gorgeous pieces I got to see.  I love Native American jewelry.



I've already told DH the next time we're in Az or NM, I'm going on a major shopping spree.  He'd better save up!


----------



## BigPurseSue

cdtracing said:


> Yes, BPS, the stone in that ring is magical.  They had some other pieces with similar Royston Turquoise & they will give me first position to buy if they decide to sell them.  I just love the stone!



Oh definitely do consider buying other pieces with similar stone. That stone is exquisite. Dumb question: do NA jewelry artists have special arrangements with mines to get first dubs on great stones? Or do they go through stone brokers or something similar? Seems like an important business aspect of being an artist would be cultivating good stone-buying relationships.


----------



## cdtracing

BigPurseSue said:


> Oh definitely do consider buying other pieces with similar stone. That stone is exquisite. Dumb question: do NA jewelry artists have special arrangements with mines to get first dubs on great stones? Or do they go through stone brokers or something similar? Seems like an important business aspect of being an artist would be cultivating good stone-buying relationships.



I'm not really sure but I would think some of the really well known artisans & silversmiths buy rough directly from the mines.  With some mines that have closed in the last few year, the prices for their rough has gone up. (ex: Sleeping Beauty Mine)  I'm not sure which mines are still in production...I haven't really kept up with it.  I do know that NA artists only want to use American Turquoise & try to stay away from the Chinese Turquoise.  They will use other stones such as coral, spiney oyster, jet, Gilson opal, MOP for inlay work, mostly Zuni, I believe.  There are wholesale brokers who deal with gemstone rough that buys can be made from.  Many of these brokers will attend the Tucson Gem Show where a lot of jewelers buy rough & cut gemstones.


----------



## BigPurseSue

cdtracing said:


> I'm not really sure but I would think some of the really well known artisans & silversmiths buy rough directly from the mines.  With some mines that have closed in the last few year, the prices for their rough has gone up. (ex: Sleeping Beauty Mine)  I'm not sure which mines are still in production...I haven't really kept up with it.  I do know that NA artists only want to use American Turquoise & try to stay away from the Chinese Turquoise.  They will use other stones such as coral, spiney oyster, jet, Gilson opal, MOP for inlay work, mostly Zuni, I believe.  There are wholesale brokers who deal with gemstone rough that buys can be made from.  Many of these brokers will attend the Tucson Gem Show where a lot of jewelers buy rough & cut gemstones.



I've heard that these days most of the turquoise from American mines is coming in a very crumbly or almost-powdered form, so it would have to be stabilized somehow. I suppose that would happen somewhere along the road to wholesale.

Years ago I spotted my elderly mom wearing this lovely vintage NA cuff with a killer piece of turquoise. She had no idea where she got it and didn't know what a find it was. When I examined it I found the turquoise was broken into several pieces and about to fall out of the bracelet. I don't know if I should admit this in this forum or not, but I Super Glued it back together for her.   It's still holding strong.


----------



## cdtracing

Wow.  If the glue is still holding & she's happy, that's all that really matters, I guess.  I'm sure you could find a silversmith who can replace the stone but you would have to find the right size & shape.  Also you would probably want the documentation pertaining to the stone, where it came from, & if it's had any treatment.


----------



## BigPurseSue

cdtracing said:


> Wow.  If the glue is still holding & she's happy, that's all that really matters, I guess.  I'm sure you could find a silversmith who can replace the stone but you would have to find the right size & shape.  Also you would probably want the documentation pertaining to the stone, where it came from, & if it's had any treatment.



My mom, queen of the Depression babies, has never found anything good to say about costly jewelry repairs, even when her daughter offers to pay for them, so I think we'll let the glued stone remain. It's an old Harvey era bracelet. Similar to this one on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-Old-Paw...659670?hash=item464fed41d6:g:dmkAAOSw3YNXZHoH. Were it repaired it probably wouldn't be worth more than $150-$200. The stone is a deep green with lots of matrix and it cracked along the matrix. It's hard to tell that it's been glued unless one looks closely. The old stone does have a lot of character and I don't know if it would be possible to replace it these days. One of the things that surprised me when I patched it was that the stone was wafer thin.

A lady I knew used to ship her vintage NA jewelry off to NA artists to be repaired. She was always telling me how they used unorthodox tools like dental tools for filing stones to fit settings and unorthodox techniques. Gluing stones to small wads of paper before tucking them into settings for instance. If I ever decide to repair mom's bracelet I'll go that route.


----------



## schadenfreude

BigPurseSue said:


> My mom, queen of the Depression babies, has never found anything good to say about costly jewelry repairs, even when her daughter offers to pay for them, so I think we'll let the glued stone remain. It's an old Harvey era bracelet. Similar to this one on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-Old-Paw...659670?hash=item464fed41d6:g:dmkAAOSw3YNXZHoH. Were it repaired it probably wouldn't be worth more than $150-$200. The stone is a deep green with lots of matrix and it cracked along the matrix. It's hard to tell that it's been glued unless one looks closely. The old stone does have a lot of character and I don't know if it would be possible to replace it these days. One of the things that surprised me when I patched it was that the stone was wafer thin.
> 
> A lady I knew used to ship her vintage NA jewelry off to NA artists to be repaired. She was always telling me how they used unorthodox tools like dental tools for filing stones to fit settings and unorthodox techniques. Gluing stones to small wads of paper before tucking them into settings for instance. If I ever decide to repair mom's bracelet I'll go that route.



Supposedly, a cracked stone means good luck! 

If you decide to get it repaired there is a highly rated shop in Scottsdale that employs NA jewelers, and they take things by mail if you're not local. https://www.oldtownjewels.com  They've been there for almost 35 years. The owner/manager Diane is a wealth of knowledge and is so passionate about her work.


----------



## BigPurseSue

schadenfreude said:


> Supposedly, a cracked stone means good luck!
> 
> If you decide to get it repaired there is a highly rated shop in Scottsdale that employs NA jewelers, and they take things by mail if you're not local. https://www.oldtownjewels.com  They've been there for almost 35 years. The owner/manager Diane is a wealth of knowledge and is so passionate about her work.



Thank you so much for the recommendation! Glad to know that a cracked stone means good luck!


----------



## jellyv

BigPurseSue said:


> Dumb question: do NA jewelry artists have special arrangements with mines to get first dubs on great stones? Or do they go through stone brokers or something similar? Seems like an important business aspect of being an artist would be cultivating good stone-buying relationships.



Not a dumb question at all! The best smiths have private stashes they've acquired in various ways over the years.  Since a number of the great American mines are depleted, the best stones used today often were mined decades ago and held in reserve by collectors and jewelers. For new work at the high end, Native craftspeople may be given good stones by a retailer/dealer, who then gets to sell the finished work (so it's the dealer, not the artisan, who has made the stone buy).

Another major resource is the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show.
http://www.visittucson.org/events/gem-show/


----------



## susieserb

So I was going to purchase a huge Zuni cuff but decided to layer three bracelets instead for variability.


----------



## BigPurseSue

susieserb said:


> View attachment 3510212
> View attachment 3510211
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I was going to purchase a huge Zuni cuff but decided to layer three bracelets instead for variability.



Omigosh! Those are gorgeous!  I especially like that coral needlepoint cuff. Love, love, love.

I was going to ask if, now that fall has arrived, with all its deep rich colors, the NA lovers in this thread are starting to wear their jewelry more often. I've been pulling out some favorite pieces to wear in the upcoming weeks.


----------



## cdtracing

susieserb said:


> View attachment 3510212
> View attachment 3510211
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I was going to purchase a huge Zuni cuff but decided to layer three bracelets instead for variability.


Love your stack!!!  I especially love the coral needlepoint cuff.  I don't have very much coral & have been thinking about adding some to my collection!



BigPurseSue said:


> Omigosh! Those are gorgeous!  I especially like that coral needlepoint cuff. Love, love, love.
> 
> I was going to ask if, now that fall has arrived, with all its deep rich colors, the NA lovers in this thread are starting to wear their jewelry more often. I've been pulling out some favorite pieces to wear in the upcoming weeks.



Yes, BPS, Fall is a good time of the year for NA jewelry with all the colors.  It's still in the 80's here so it still feels summery.  I was looking at some NA jewelry this week when I went to pick up DH's boots.  The western store that resole & reheel his boots got a few interesting items in this week.


----------



## Pirard

I just discovered this thread...what stunning pieces you have! I need to pull out my NA jewelry and wear it more often...I tend to cycle through stones.  I know reliability is a big factor in finding true pieces.  I've had great experiences with the Heard Museum shop (Phoenix); the Indian Craft Shop (DC inside the US Dept. of Interior), the Smithsonian Native American Museum (DC), and of course Garland's in Sedona (AZ).  Oh, and almost forgot to mention Santa Fe, Native American Vendors Program of the Palace of the Governors


----------



## susieserb

Pirard said:


> I just discovered this thread...what stunning pieces you have! I need to pull out my NA jewelry and wear it more often...I tend to cycle through stones.  I know reliability is a big factor in finding true pieces.  I've had great experiences with the Heard Museum shop (Phoenix); the Indian Craft Shop (DC inside the US Dept. of Interior), the Smithsonian Native American Museum (DC), and of course Garland's in Sedona (AZ).  Oh, and almost forgot to mention Santa Fe, Native American Vendors Program of the Palace of the Governors


Dang gurl!!!!! What a rich source you have to compare and utilize, JUST WOW!! I use Nativo-Arts on Ebay and a dude in Missouri who shops the S West area and brings his wares to his store; his eye is fabulous.  The Missouri dealer has been in business for 30 years and stands behind his merchandise.


----------



## susieserb

BigPurseSue said:


> Omigosh! Those are gorgeous!  I especially like that coral needlepoint cuff. Love, love, love.
> 
> I was going to ask if, now that fall has arrived, with all its deep rich colors, the NA lovers in this thread are starting to wear their jewelry more often. I've been pulling out some favorite pieces to wear in the upcoming weeks.


YES I make myself wear the pieces.  At one time I reserved NAJ for Summer but NO MORE.  Fall is a wonderful time to expose them.. Winter can be hard with coat sleeves KWIM...


----------



## susieserb

I wore this just the other day; I look kind of goofy LOL BUT our Fall weather in the midwest has been one for the books


----------



## cdtracing

I'm happy to add this piece to my NA collection!  It's handmade & hand signed by Navajo  R Platero.  I've been eyeing this for a while & decided to take the plunge.


----------



## susieserb

cdtracing said:


> I'm happy to add this piece to my NA collection!  It's handmade & hand signed by Navajo  R Platero.  I've been eyeing this for a while & decided to take the plunge.
> View attachment 3656609


IMHO crosses in any shape of style make me go YAS!!! I adore this piece TY for sharing..You did good.


----------



## cdtracing

Today, I brought out some of NA jewelry.  Every where I went today, people stopped & commented how much they love the jewelry.  When my son & I stopped for dinner & drinks before going home, two waitresses & a customer stopped to comment & ask about my NA jewelry.  My son was amazed.  I told him it was because it's not seen that much here.  Made me feel good, though to hear how much people appreciated it!!


----------



## suchi

cdtracing said:


> Today, I brought out some of NA jewelry.  Every where I went today, people stopped & commented how much they love the jewelry.  When my son & I stopped for dinner & drinks before going home, two waitresses & a customer stopped to comment & ask about my NA jewelry.  My son was amazed.  I told him it was because it's not seen that much here.  Made me feel good, though to hear how much people appreciated it!!


Love!!!!


----------



## chessmont

cdtracing said:


> Today, I brought out some of NA jewelry.  Every where I went today, people stopped & commented how much they love the jewelry.  When my son & I stopped for dinner & drinks before going home, two waitresses & a customer stopped to comment & ask about my NA jewelry.  My son was amazed.  I told him it was because it's not seen that much here.  Made me feel good, though to hear how much people appreciated it!!
> 
> View attachment 4038906



I have an almost exact squash blossom necklace (actually 2 very similar)!  I think I posted them way back in the thread.  One is a deeper blue and one is more green.  Love both of your necklaces!


----------



## cdtracing

chessmont said:


> I have an almost exact squash blossom necklace (actually 2 very similar)!  I think I posted them way back in the thread.  One is a deeper blue and one is more green.  Love both of your necklaces!



Thanks, Chessmont!  I remember your squash blossoms.  They're beautiful.  This is the lighter squash blossom I have as far as weight is concerned.  The other necklace is a 60's Santa Domingo & very heavy.


----------



## BigPurseSue

cdtracing said:


> Today, I brought out some of NA jewelry.  Every where I went today, people stopped & commented how much they love the jewelry.  When my son & I stopped for dinner & drinks before going home, two waitresses & a customer stopped to comment & ask about my NA jewelry.  My son was amazed.  I told him it was because it's not seen that much here.  Made me feel good, though to hear how much people appreciated it!!
> 
> View attachment 4038906



Is Native American jewelry not worn much in the south? I find that whenever I wear my NA jewelry I get lots of compliments. Maybe the colors stand out? I'm in the Midwest and I don't often see women around here wearing it.

LOVE the necklaces!!!


----------



## cdtracing

BigPurseSue said:


> Is Native American jewelry not worn much in the south? I find that whenever I wear my NA jewelry I get lots of compliments. Maybe the colors stand out? I'm in the Midwest and I don't often see women around here wearing it.
> 
> LOVE the necklaces!!!


Thanks, BPS!  I don't see many people wear it around here.  I think because the colors stand out so much, it attracts attention.  Use to see a lot worn back in the 60's & 70's but not so much any more.  There is a lady at church that wears some beautiful NA jewelry.  She has some very old & some really astounding pieces.  She told me she's been collecting since the 40's when she &  her husband lived in Arizona.


----------



## BigPurseSue

cdtracing said:


> Thanks, BPS!  I don't see many people wear it around here.  I think because the colors stand out so much, it attracts attention.  Use to see a lot worn back in the 60's & 70's but not so much any more.  There is a lady at church that wears some beautiful NA jewelry.  She has some very old & some really astounding pieces.  She told me she's been collecting since the 40's when she &  her husband lived in Arizona.



Wow. Would love to see her collection. I live in the upper Midwest and have never seen NA jewelry worn around here. I have a few Harvey-esque pieces I snagged at church rummage sales back--and this is going to age me--in the '60s and '70s which I assume were souvenirs of trips out west.


----------



## alice87

Just wondering, the thread is a little old, but any new items? Any new ideas? I've been to Sedona recently. My gues is you need to go to really small places to find unique staff, most gift shops did not have impressive jewelries.


----------



## cdtracing

alice87 said:


> Just wondering, the thread is a little old, but any new items? Any new ideas? I've been to Sedona recently. My gues is you need to go to really small places to find unique staff, most gift shops did not have impressive jewelries.



I haven't acquired anything new lately.  I  am looking at a couple of bracelets, though.  Yes, gift shops don't usually carry a big variety or impressive items.  I have found that when I travel, I have better luck at specialty shops or antique stores.


----------



## Caz71

susieserb said:


> More, this is too much fun!!




Hi Susieserb, thought you might wanna do a sarma cooking blog. My BF is serbian too, Im half serb and she loves turquoise! x


----------



## susieserb

Caz71 said:


> Hi Susieserb, thought you might wanna do a sarma cooking blog. My BF is serbian too, Im half serb and she loves turquoise! x


My mother cooked a mean Sarma!!!!! this Serb can't stand the stuff LOLOLOL

few years after these youtubes and I still wear my tourq!!!


	

		
			
		

		
	
s


----------



## Caz71

susieserb said:


> My mother cooked a mean Sarma!!!!! this Serb can't stand the stuff LOLOLOL
> 
> few years after these youtubes and I still wear my tourq!!!
> View attachment 4100705
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s



Hehe mum and dad lives in next State. I miss their sarma!


----------



## Compass Rose

cdtracing said:


> Thanks, BPS!  I don't see many people wear it around here.  I think because the colors stand out so much, it attracts attention.  Use to see a lot worn back in the 60's & 70's but not so much any more.  There is a lady at church that wears some beautiful NA jewelry.  She has some very old & some really astounding pieces.  She told me she's been collecting since the 40's when she &  her husband lived in Arizona.


I love all of my native jewelry, and I very rarely see anyone here in Florida wear any of it.  There are a lot of gold and silver flip flops, flamingos, shells and manatees here, and I wish I saw more tourquoise..


----------



## BigPurseSue

Compass Rose said:


> I love all of my native jewelry, and I very rarely see anyone here in Florida wear any of it.  There are a lot of gold and silver flip flops, flamingos, shells and manatees here, and I wish I saw more tourquoise..



How interesting! Over the years most of my NA and Southwestern jewelry has come from ebay, and much of it has come from estates in Florida. Wonder if ladies bought it years ago, maybe as a travel souvenir, and never wore it?


----------



## Compass Rose

BigPurseSue said:


> How interesting! Over the years most of my NA and Southwestern jewelry has come from ebay, and much of it has come from estates in Florida. Wonder if ladies bought it years ago, maybe as a travel souvenir, and never wore it?


You know, there used to be an antique store in Arcadia that had the most amazing pieces.  I purchased a pair of Zuni earrings so fast that my wallet had smoke coming out of it because I honestly did not believe they knew what they were selling.  Truly, I just about stand alone when I wear my beautiful turquoise here.  Maybe I don't get out much, lol!!


----------



## Compass Rose

I just love these.
	

		
			
		

		
	




Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## jellyv

alice87 said:


> Just wondering, the thread is a little old, but any new items? Any new ideas? I've been to Sedona recently. My gues is you need to go to really small places to find unique staff, *most gift shops did not have impressive jewelrie*s.


Oh no!
Didn't you get to Garland's Indian Jewelry and Hoel's Indian Shop? Two of the greatest shops in US for top quality.

I always have new things coming in and occasional finds of rare and antique pieces  that I keep or sometimes sell. One recent addition:
Coral row bracelet by Ernest Roy Begay. Expert, unusual deep handstamping inside and at ends.


----------



## Compass Rose

OMG.....this is stunning!!


----------



## BigPurseSue

Compass Rose said:


> I just love these.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4107248
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk



I love those too!  Are those the Zuni earrings you mentioned?


----------



## BigPurseSue

Compass Rose said:


> You know, there used to be an antique store in Arcadia that had the most amazing pieces.  I purchased a pair of Zuni earrings so fast that my wallet had smoke coming out of it because I honestly did not believe they knew what they were selling.  Truly, I just about stand alone when I wear my beautiful turquoise here.  Maybe I don't get out much, lol!!



  I don't think it's uncommon for stores outside the southwest selling NA jewelry to be unaware of the value of what they're selling. I have a few pieces from ebay that are clearly hallmarked but the seller never bothered to look them up.

Here in the Midwest, back in the days of mall antique shows, I often found gorgeous sterling pieces with Taxco hallmarks selling for $25-$30. While some weird cookie jar shaped like a duck would have a $500 price tag. Could never tell if the sellers were simply uninformed or crazy, or if that's what the local market was paying for these things.


----------



## Compass Rose

Yes..,.these are!  I would be ashamed to tell you what I paid for them.  The hallmark is just a single bear foot print and I looked it up and could not see who it belonged to.


----------



## Compass Rose

Here is the hallmark.
	

		
			
		

		
	




Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## alice87

jellyv said:


> Oh no!
> Didn't you get to Garland's Indian Jewelry and Hoel's Indian Shop? Two of the greatest shops in US for top quality.
> 
> I always have new things coming in and occasional finds of rare and antique pieces  that I keep or sometimes sell. One recent addition:
> Coral row bracelet by Ernest Roy Begay. Expert, unusual deep handstamping inside and at ends.


Beautiful pieces. I din't think I've been to any of these  shops. We were half a day in Sedona.


----------



## Cyanide Rose

I haven’t seen much turquoise at all in my area. There was a shop I remembered having some amazing pieces, but unfortunately I was a week late. A lady from out west purchased forty-five pieces, which were mostly cuffs and rings. So what was left was pretty picked over, but I did buy a few pieces. I do not know much about turquoise, but I do believe this to be Native American. It’s marked RB, under that Sterling and under that a sideways B.  I found quite a few options for the RB, still not sure which artisan made this ring, but I like the presence it has [emoji4]


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Here is a picture of the mark on it. If anyone knows who made this ring, please let me know. Thanks so much [emoji16]


----------



## oldbag

I have done a bit of research  and this might be the work of Navajo artist Roberta Begay._ The hallmark  I saw is similar  to the marking on your ring  but not with the extra B. I looked on google and on Native American Hallmarks under the letter  R , that is where I found her. I typed in her name on google and clicked on images and there are examples of her work. The RB Sterling imprint is what looks so close.  I hope this helps in some small way._


----------



## oldbag

Cyanide Rose said:


> Here is a picture of the mark on it. If anyone knows who made this ring, please letthanks me know. Thanks so much [emoji16]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4152339


See my reply under you post.  Thanks


----------



## jellyv

My latest treasure: Ca. 1940s Zuni or Zuni/Navajo collaboration channel inlay bracelet with natural Blue Gem turquoise. Master craftsmanship, entirely accomplished with hand tools. Unknown artist. Very unusual to see this expert handstamping of the silver on a Zuni cuff. Blue Gem is eye dazzling!


----------



## Cyanide Rose

oldbag said:


> I have done a bit of research  and this might be the work of Navajo artist Roberta Begay._ The hallmark  I saw is similar  to the marking on your ring  but not with the extra B. I looked on google and on Native American Hallmarks under the letter  R , that is where I found her. I typed in her name on google and clicked on images and there are examples of her work. The RB Sterling imprint is what looks so close.  I hope this helps in some small way._



Thank you so much, I really appreciate your help [emoji4]


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> My latest treasure: Ca. 1940s Zuni or Zuni/Navajo collaboration channel inlay bracelet with natural Blue Gem turquoise. Master craftsmanship, entirely accomplished with hand tools. Unknown artist. Very unusual to see this expert handstamping of the silver on a Zuni cuff. Blue Gem is eye dazzling!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4155658
> View attachment 4155659
> View attachment 4155657


What a find!!  This is a really nice piece!  It's gorgeous!!


----------



## cdtracing

Cyanide Rose said:


> I haven’t seen much turquoise at all in my area. There was a shop I remembered having some amazing pieces, but unfortunately I was a week late. A lady from out west purchased forty-five pieces, which were mostly cuffs and rings. So what was left was pretty picked over, but I did buy a few pieces. I do not know much about turquoise, but I do believe this to be Native American. It’s marked RB, under that Sterling and under that a sideways B.  I found quite a few options for the RB, still not sure which artisan made this ring, but I like the presence it has [emoji4]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4152335


Oooooo!  I love big rings.  The color of your turquoise is beautiful!


----------



## Kindness3

Got this 1990 vintage Navajo sterling silver piece I have very cool piece of history


----------



## Kindness3

Then I got my prized rare high quality gel suglite cuff bracelet


----------



## Kindness3

Thank you letting me share my native american jewelry


----------



## Cyanide Rose

cdtracing said:


> Oooooo!  I love big rings.  The color of your turquoise is beautiful!



Thanks so much CD [emoji16]


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> What a find!!  This is a really nice piece!  It's gorgeous!!



Thank you and glad you enjoy seeing it. I tried it on months ago, couldn’t stop thinking about it. Then kaboom. [emoji3]


----------



## jellyv

Kindness3 said:


> Thank you letting me share my native american jewelry



Lovely bracelets!  Tell us about who made them, if you care to share. That sugilite inlay is stunning and very different.


----------



## clairejune

I love Native American jewelry! Especially vintage Zuni needle and petite point. Here are some of my pieces....

2 Zuni vintage cuffs with a huge vintage Zuni ring..


----------



## clairejune

The inlay necklace is also a vintage Zuni set. The small inlaid turquoise bracelet is Navajo. The coral is all untreated natural coral, bracelet is Navajo and necklaces Santa Domingo. Finally the turquoise necklace is also Santa Domingo. The earrings, rings and cuff are all Zuni, mostly vintage.


----------



## cdtracing

clairejune said:


> I love Native American jewelry! Especially vintage Zuni needle and petite point. Here are some of my pieces....
> 
> 2 Zuni vintage cuffs with a huge vintage Zuni ring..





clairejune said:


> The inlay necklace is also a vintage Zuni set. The small inlaid turquoise bracelet is Navajo. The coral is all untreated natural coral, bracelet is Navajo and necklaces Santa Domingo. Finally the turquoise necklace is also Santa Domingo. The earrings, rings and cuff are all Zuni, mostly vintage.



You have a beautiful collection.  I love your Zuni pieces!!


----------



## clairejune

cdtracing said:


> You have a beautiful collection.  I love your Zuni pieces!!


Thankyou, cdtracing! I love your collection too! I forgot to mention, the second cuff posted belongs to my mother. It’s from the 1960’s. I helped her find it and we bought it together. It’s her first native piece, and she wears it everyday as a personal talisman.


----------



## jellyv

clairejune said:


> The inlay necklace is also a vintage Zuni set. The small inlaid turquoise bracelet is Navajo. The coral is all untreated natural coral, bracelet is Navajo and necklaces Santa Domingo. Finally the turquoise necklace is also Santa Domingo. The earrings, rings and cuff are all Zuni, mostly vintage.


Stunning collection, top tier quality. Thanks for sharing! Really choice pieces. That chunky one from the 60s is insanely great!

As I'm sure you know, the inlay pendant on the beautiful Navajo silver beads is by Bobby and Corraine Shack, their classic thunderbird. We have a bolo by them that's very similar.  I can't quite tell from the photos but I'm guessing the inlay includes tortoise shell?


----------



## clairejune

jellyv said:


> Stunning collection, top tier quality. Thanks for sharing! Really choice pieces. That chunky one from the 60s is insanely great!
> 
> As I'm sure you know, the inlay pendant on the beautiful Navajo silver beads is by Bobby and Corraine Shack, their classic thunderbird. We have a bolo by them that's very similar.  I can't quite tell from the photos but I'm guessing the inlay includes tortoise shell?



Thank you for the compliments! You are right! Bonny and Corrine Shack pendant. It was from the 70’s along with the earrings and beads. I do believe it has tortoise shell in it.

All in all, I really love the vintage stuff. The oldest piece is the huge ring, which is late 40’s and the snowflake cuff is just a a bit newer than the 60’s cuff which you mentioned, but I’ve been told that it was earlier too. I’m not sure anymore. The third one ( I call it the sunflower, is from around that time too.) Actually, now I forgot that I also have an Alice Quam coral ring which I forgot to post. I’ll post a few more pics shortly....


----------



## jellyv

clairejune said:


> Actually, now I forgot that I also have an Alice Quam coral ring which I forgot to post..



Yikes, you forgot an Alice Quam piece?! She was so amazing.  I have a big honking AQ coral cluster bracelet to match your ring.


----------



## clairejune

Here is the Alice Quam coral ring.
I also added 2 more pics of the cuffs.
These cuffs and the thunderbird really feel spiritually wonderful to wear somehow. The necklace gives me so much courage, and the cuffs are mentally clarifying , like meditative mandalas. They look great with elegant dressy clothes as well as with jeans. The Turquoise  ring is modern, as I bought it at the Zuni show at the annual Native American art show 2 years ago in Santa Fe.


----------



## clairejune

jellyv said:


> Yikes, you forgot an Alice Quam piece?! She was so amazing.  I have a big honking AQ coral cluster bracelet to match your ring.


Omg, please post it!!!! I’ve been dying for one of her cuffs!


----------



## jellyv

You bet.
Here it is with Lorraine Waatsa (her daughter) earrings and cluster pin. I've had my Alice cuff for a long time.
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
  Let's see that ring!


----------



## clairejune

jellyv said:


> You bet.
> Here it is with Lorraine Waatsa (her daughter) earrings and cluster pin. I've had my Alice cuff for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4158686
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see that ring!


Wow! That is a top notch piece! Just amazing! That’s my dream coral cuff. I could get totally lost in it. There is such purity and peace in her work. They all are examples of one idea, carried out fully. And that set is stunning! 

I posted the ring on the previous page.


----------



## jellyv

clairejune said:


> Wow! That is a top notch piece! Just amazing! That’s my dream coral cuff. I could get totally lost in it. There is such purity and peace in her work. They all are examples of one idea, carried out fully. And that set is stunning!
> 
> I posted the ring on the previous page.


Thank you. 
Just saw your newest pics---the Alice ring is truly sensational. I don't think I've seen one by her with such a large, elegantly cut center stone. And your needlepoint bracelet is exceptional--look at the color variation that comes from age and loving use.

I agree with you about the spiritual qualities of these fine pieces. But the fact is, my Alice bracelet is a bossy sort, kind of the Aretha of my collection.


----------



## clairejune

jellyv said:


> Thank you.
> Just saw your newest pics---the Alice ring is truly sensational. I don't think I've seen one by her with such a large, elegantly cut center stone. And your needlepoint bracelet is exceptional--look at the color variation that comes from age and loving use.
> 
> I agree with you about the spiritual qualities of these fine pieces. But the fact is, my Alice bracelet is a bossy sort, kind of the Aretha of my collection.


I can see your large AQ cluster being an ‘Aretha’! That’s a truely bold piece with lots of personality. I adore it! Thank you for the kind words about the ring and cuff. When I saw my coral ring, I fell head over heels in love with the shape of it and especially that of the center stone.  I  got the coral Navajo bracelet to go with it for now, but I know it needs a coral cluster at some point.  They are just not that easy to find.


----------



## jellyv

clairejune said:


> I  got the coral Navajo bracelet to go with it for now, but I know it needs a coral cluster at some point.  They are just not that easy to find.



Really true. Those by Alice Q were in demand when she was still living and now are both scarce and super $$$. But Lorraine makes similar beautiful cuffs--but she tends to work in turquoise more so than coral in the bracelet form. I do have a Lorraine Morenci turq cluster cuff that's just about as handsome as this AQ bracelet.


----------



## clairejune

jellyv said:


> Really true. Those by Alice Q were in demand when she was still living and now are both scarce and super $$$. But Lorraine makes similar beautiful cuffs--but she tends to work in turquoise more so than coral in the bracelet form. I do have a Lorraine Morenci turq cluster cuff that's just about as handsome as this AQ bracelet.


I would love to see that too! The morenci turquoise is so gorgeous. Another favorite is Blue Gem. Recently, I passed through Tucson. Of course I looked a lot at Native pieces. One old time seller told me that almost all of the American turquoise mines are depleted/mined out now. And of the turquoise still coming, 97 something odd percent is stabilized. That rare, gem quality, American turquoise is becoming very rare and much harder to find now.


----------



## jellyv

Yes, the old American mines have been exhausted for a while, except for a few. The gem grade stuff has always been rare.

I need to take good pics of my Lorraine cuff, but in the meantime here's a vintage Lorraine Waatsa turq cluster bolo in the collection (it's on a long black braided cord).


----------



## Kindness3

clairejune said:


> Thankyou, cdtracing! I love your collection too! I forgot to mention, the second cuff posted belongs to my mother. It’s from the 1960’s. I helped her find it and we bought it together. It’s her first native piece, and she wears it everyday as a personal talisman.


Hello you have wonderful collection thank you for sharing


----------



## Kindness3

jellyv said:


> Oh no!
> Didn't you get to Garland's Indian Jewelry and Hoel's Indian Shop? Two of the greatest shops in US for top quality.
> 
> I always have new things coming in and occasional finds of rare and antique pieces  that I keep or sometimes sell. One recent addition:
> Coral row bracelet by Ernest Roy Begay. Expert, unusual deep handstamping inside and at ends.


Lovely love pattern plus coral nice


----------



## Kindness3

jellyv said:


> Lovely bracelets!  Tell us about who made them, if you care to share. That sugilite inlay is stunning and very different.


To be I honestly .I'm not sure of the artists has guitar on the back as artist symbol name suglite one . the other one I can't make out his signature inside you can see has very cool design too lots detail this one has .thank you for the wonder comments


----------



## Kindness3

Thank for letting me share my collection


----------



## Kindness3

Wear these two the most I love detail on them trying to find out the meaning on them


----------



## Kindness3

jellyv said:


> Lovely bracelets!  Tell us about who made them, if you care to share. That sugilite inlay is stunning and very different.


Thank you all for likes


----------



## clairejune

Kindness3 said:


> Wear these two the most I love detail on them trying to find out the meaning on them


Those are beautiful! And, thanks for the kind compliments about my collection!


----------



## Kindness3

clairejune said:


> Those are beautiful! And, thanks for the kind compliments about my collection!


Very welcome


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Johnny Mike Begay railroad track cuff and ring. I hope everyone is enjoying their day [emoji16]


----------



## jellyv

Cyanide Rose said:


> Johnny Mike Begay ]



Wow! Very handsome set! JMB is quite the collectible maker. [emoji106]


----------



## cdtracing

Cyanide Rose said:


> Johnny Mike Begay railroad track cuff and ring. I hope everyone is enjoying their day [emoji16]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4165133


Gorgeous!!!  Nice pieces!!


----------



## Cyanide Rose

jellyv said:


> Wow! Very handsome set! JMB is quite the collectible maker. [emoji106]





cdtracing said:


> Gorgeous!!!  Nice pieces!!



Hi jellyv, Thank you sooo much for your kind words [emoji4]

Hi there CD, Thanks so much! I was just looking at your lovely pearls, your collection of jewelry is amazing! I never tire of your enhancers, just beautiful [emoji16]


----------



## cdtracing

Cyanide Rose said:


> Hi jellyv, Thank you sooo much for your kind words [emoji4]
> 
> Hi there CD, Thanks so much! I was just looking at your lovely pearls, your collection of jewelry is amazing! I never tire of your enhancers, just beautiful [emoji16]


Thanks, CR!!  I've been on a major pearl buying spree.  I've been able to add some pearls that I've been wanting for a while but the wish list is still long.


----------



## jellyv

Found some older pics of my Lorraine Waatsa bracelet, a little overexposed but you can get the drift.  This is another big momma in size, same scale as my Alice Quam coral bracelet I've posted.


----------



## clairejune

jellyv said:


> Found some older pics of my Lorraine Waatsa bracelet, a little overexposed but you can get the drift.  This is another big momma in size, same scale as my Alice Quam coral bracelet I've posted.
> View attachment 4170146


That is a stunning cuff! Thanks for showing pictures! The shapes of the stones are so beautiful, and the way they cluster together is so harmonious and restful.


----------



## jellyv

clairejune said:


> That is a stunning cuff! Thanks for showing pictures! The shapes of the stones are so beautiful, and the way they cluster together is so harmonious and restful.


Thank you, CJ. When I first saw it, in the window of a wonderful shop in Prescott, AZ, it was simply radiant in the Southwestern sunlight, and it _commanded me_ to step inside.


----------



## clairejune

jellyv said:


> Thank you, CJ. When I first saw it, in the window of a wonderful shop in Prescott, AZ, it was simply radiant in the Southwestern sunlight, and it _commanded me_ to step inside.


Lol, I know just what you are describing!!!lol!


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Found some older pics of my Lorraine Waatsa bracelet, a little overexposed but you can get the drift.  This is another big momma in size, same scale as my Alice Quam coral bracelet I've posted.
> View attachment 4170146


This is absolutely breathtaking, JV!!!  Love it!!


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> This is absolutely breathtaking, JV!!!  Love it!!



Thanks CD. It’s a favorite of mine for sure.


----------



## Kindness3

I was bad I saw this vintage piece from Dave tune couldn't resist adding to my collection .thank you for letting me share


----------



## Kindness3

It is cool looking and love detail of the piece


----------



## Kindness3

jellyv said:


> Found some older pics of my Lorraine Waatsa bracelet, a little overexposed but you can get the drift.  This is another big momma in size, same scale as my Alice Quam coral bracelet I've posted.
> View attachment 4170146


Wow lovely design turquise is stunning robin blue egg color


----------



## jellyv

Kindness3 said:


> Wow lovely design turquise is stunning robin blue egg color


Thank you. It's the classic Zuni petitpoint cluster work that she and her family are known for--dating back at least to her grandparents, the Ondelacy family.

Loved your last posted silver bracelet! Very detailed.


----------



## Kindness3

jellyv said:


> Thank you. It's the classic Zuni petitpoint cluster work that she and her family are known for--dating back at least to her grandparents, the Ondelacy family.
> 
> Loved your last posted silver bracelet! Very detailed.


Thank you so much


----------



## Kindness3

Well I found this unique bill Emerson cuff bracelet which stacks so nicely with my loves .


----------



## Kindness3

Better picture


----------



## Kindness3

Two favorite cuff bracelet. I love the fact that each one is one of kind .I love finding ones that unique .thank you for letting me share my updated collection


----------



## Kindness3

Today look ,love to change look depending on what im wearing for the day


----------



## Kindness3

Happy Thurs to everyone


----------



## Compass Rose

When I want to be a bit contemporary, I wear this favorite of mine that I have owned for about 13 years.  I purchased it during Indian Market in Santa Fe.


----------



## cdtracing

Compass Rose said:


> When I want to be a bit contemporary, I wear this favorite of mine that I have owned for about 13 years.  I purchased it during Indian Market in Santa Fe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4209282


This is a gorgeous example of NA inlay work!


----------



## Compass Rose

cdtracing said:


> This is a gorgeous example of NA inlay work!


Thank you so much!  I love it tons!


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> When I want to be a bit contemporary, I wear this favorite of mine that I have owned for about 13 years.  I purchased it during Indian Market in Santa Fe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4209282


Oh that's gorgeous! I still don't have a multicolor inlay piece. I really like the pattern flow of this one, and the harmony of colors. Who's the artist?


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> When I want to be a bit contemporary, I wear this favorite of mine that I have owned for about 13 years.  I purchased it during Indian Market in Santa Fe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4209282


I went to that in the late 1980s, still wear the fabulous stuff I bought there.  Its worth a fortune now, but love it for the beauty.  Would never sell it.


----------



## Kindness3

Compass Rose said:


> When I want to be a bit contemporary, I wear this favorite of mine that I have owned for about 13 years.  I purchased it during Indian Market in Santa Fe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4209282


Wow it very cool cuff bracelet LOVE design of the stones too


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> Oh that's gorgeous! I still don't have a multicolor inlay piece. I really like the pattern flow of this one, and the harmony of colors. Who's the artist?


I can only make out the .925 mark on the inside, but it was purchased at Packard's.....and now that gallery is Malouff on the Plaza.


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> I can only make out the .925 mark on the inside, but it was purchased at Packard's.....and now that gallery is Malouff on the Plaza.


Packard's was quite the eye-candy store.


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> Packard's was quite the eye-candy store.


It truly was.  My sister-in-law and I were devastated when they said they would be closing.  But....it's all good and my husband knows very well that we would probably be broke as heck if we ever moved out West.


----------



## Molly0

I picked up a couple of items today but not sure what to make of them.    An unmarked ring of turquoise and silver.  Very nice little turquoise pieces in the ring and I do like it.  But the inlaid bracelet, I am not sure about. It is marked “Nakai”. It seems to appear to me, from looking online that it may mean that it is just made by an “unknown maker”.  Not sure. What do the experts say?  Thanks.


----------



## chessmont

Molly0 said:


> I picked up a couple of items today but not sure what to make of them.    An unmarked ring of turquoise and silver.  Very nice little turquoise pieces in the ring and I do like it.  But the inlaid bracelet, I am not sure about. It is marked “Nakai”. It seems to appear to me, from looking online that it may mean that it is just made by an “unknown maker”.  Not sure. What do the experts say?  Thanks.
> View attachment 4238093
> View attachment 4238095
> View attachment 4238096


pretty pieces!  I have no advice, I am not versed in the provenance, etc. of NA jewelry... (I just like to wear it LOL)


----------



## Molly0

chessmont said:


> pretty pieces!  I have no advice, I am not versed in the provenance, etc. of NA jewelry... (I just like to wear it LOL)


Thanks anyway. Me too.


----------



## BigPurseSue

Molly0 said:


> I picked up a couple of items today but not sure what to make of them.    An unmarked ring of turquoise and silver.  Very nice little turquoise pieces in the ring and I do like it.  But the inlaid bracelet, I am not sure about. It is marked “Nakai”. It seems to appear to me, from looking online that it may mean that it is just made by an “unknown maker”.  Not sure. What do the experts say?  Thanks.
> View attachment 4238093
> View attachment 4238095
> View attachment 4238096



Lovely pieces!

Here's an interesting discussion from the ebay community on "Nakia" NA jewelry. Nakia is apparently a shop in Sante Fe that uses piece workers to create jewelry and stamp it with the shop name. Although there is also a family of NA jewelry makers named Nakia.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Fine-...-Sterling-southwestern-earrings/td-p/19396583


----------



## Molly0

BigPurseSue said:


> Lovely pieces!
> 
> Here's an interesting discussion from the ebay community on "Nakia" NA jewelry. Nakia is apparently a shop in Sante Fe that uses piece workers to create jewelry and stamp it with the shop name. Although there is also a family of NA jewelry makers named Nakia.
> https://community.ebay.com/t5/Fine-...-Sterling-southwestern-earrings/td-p/19396583


Interesting. Thanks for this.
It’s hard to know what I have here. This cuff does not have “Sterling” nor “925” stamped on it. Just NAKAI in all caps. (it does clean like silver tho when I use a silver cleaning cloth.)


----------



## BigPurseSue

Molly0 said:


> Interesting. Thanks for this.
> It’s hard to know what I have here. This cuff does not have “Sterling” nor “925” stamped on it. Just NAKAI in all caps. (it does clean like silver tho when I use a silver cleaning cloth.)



I find that the silver cleaning cloths also clean up metal that's not silver

I have some very old NA jewelry that's not stamped sterling or 925. Lots of the old jewelry was made with melted down metals like nickels, or the Indian craftspeople did not stamp the jewelry, so it's always hard to tell. 

In that ebay message string it mentioned contacting the Nakai shop in Santa Fe to ask about the jewelry, and if the shop is still in business that might be something to consider doing.


----------



## Molly0

BigPurseSue said:


> I find that the silver cleaning cloths also clean up metal that's not silver
> 
> I have some very old NA jewelry that's not stamped sterling or 925. Lots of the old jewelry was made with melted down metals like nickels, or the Indian craftspeople did not stamp the jewelry, so it's always hard to tell.
> 
> In that ebay message string it mentioned contacting the Nakai shop in Santa Fe to ask about the jewelry, and if the shop is still in business that might be something to consider doing.


Thanks. Good suggestion.


----------



## jellyv

Nakai is a Navajo name, so you can expect it was indeed Navajo made, either by an individual or a workshop employing Navajos.

The chip inlay style is a commercial project that got popularized in the 1960s. The point of it was to satisfy the newly-growing demand for Indian jewelry at the more affordable souvenir end. There was one high-end jeweler, Tommy Singer, who is credited with starting the style. So it's sometimes called "Singer style." Here, the turquoise and spiny oyster are remnants mixed into a bonding adhesive. The silver stamping on the cuff mostly likely was done by a machine process vs. hand applied.

The little ring is very sweet! I like the shaping of the stones. I'd guess Zuni made.


----------



## Molly0

jellyv said:


> Nakai is a Navajo name, so you can expect it was indeed Navajo made, either by an individual or a workshop employing Navajos.
> 
> The chip inlay style is a commercial project that got popularized in the 1960s. The point of it was to satisfy the newly-growing demand for Indian jewelry at the more affordable souvenir end. There was one high-end jeweler, Tommy Singer, who is credited with starting the style. So it's sometimes called "Singer style." Here, the turquoise and spiny oyster are remnants mixed into a bonding adhesive. The silver stamping on the cuff mostly likely was done by a machine process vs. hand applied.
> 
> The little ring is very sweet! I like the shaping of the stones. I'd guess Zuni made.


Thanks so much for all the info!  The bracelet seems to be two parts put together (hope that makes sense). You can see a seam.  Maybe like two sheets pressed together? Making it very thick and heavy.  The outer one being silver and the inside one being some other material ? Looks somewhat duller.


----------



## jellyv

Molly0 said:


> The bracelet seems to be two parts put together (hope that makes sense). You can see a seam.  Maybe like two sheets pressed together? Making it very thick and heavy.  The outer one being silver and the inside one being some other material ?.



You're welcome. What you're describing is the "overlay" technique. I can't think of any other reason there would be two layers, so here's what overlay does: 
There are two layers, a base layer and a top layer, with the base having the decoration on it (the chip inlay pattern) that gets exposed by the cutting away of the top layer.  You should expect it to be silver,  entirely.


----------



## Molly0

jellyv said:


> You're welcome. What you're describing is the "overlay" technique. I can't think of any other reason there would be two layers, so here's what overlay does:
> There are two layers, a base layer and a top layer, with the base having the decoration on it (the chip inlay pattern) that gets exposed by the cutting away of the top layer.  You should expect it to be silver,  entirely.


Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge.


----------



## essiedub

Kindness3 said:


> Two favorite cuff bracelet. I love the fact that each one is one of kind .I love finding ones that unique .thank you for letting me share my updated collection


Really like this combination. They complement each other so well. It’s very graphic and modern. I would not have thought this was Native American. Tell us more! Thanks for posting.


----------



## cdtracing

Molly0, I agree with Jellyv about the bracelet.  The ring is nice & resembles Zuni work.


----------



## Compass Rose

This is a really gorgeous sacred heart pendant that I purchased at the Tesuque pueblo years ago.  I jazzed it up with some of my own creations that I sometimes mix with Navaho pearls, too.  The more...the merrier!  It is hallmarked by Dan Robson.


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> This is a really gorgeous sacred heart pendant that I purchased at the Tesuque pueblo years ago.  I jazzed it up with some of my own creations that I sometimes mix with Navaho pearls, too.  The more...the merrier!  It is hallmarked by Dan Robson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4274570


Wow it is beautiful!


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> This is a really gorgeous sacred heart pendant that I purchased at the Tesuque pueblo years ago.    It is hallmarked by Dan Robson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4274570



Super pretty, but this is "Southwest style" by Dan Dodson, a Santa Fe Anglo (non-Native) jeweler who claims inspiration from Native American jewelry.


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> Super pretty, but this is "Southwest style" by Dan Dodson, a Santa Fe Anglo (non-Native) jeweler who claims inspiration from Native American jewelry.


You are absolutely correct!!  I had to get my loop out to see the hallmark correctly.  Thank you so much for your post!


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> You are absolutely correct!!  I had to get my loop out to see the hallmark correctly.  Thank you so much for your post! [emoji2]



Most welcome! Lovely pendant, and I like your interesting and colorful multi-strand beads.


----------



## Compass Rose

Signed Naja pendant from Nizhoni Traders.  Necklaces are my own creations.  Navajo pearls look so beautiful with it.


----------



## cdtracing

So pretty!  Colors are beautiful.


----------



## Compass Rose

cdtracing said:


> So pretty!  Colors are beautiful.


Thank you, cdt!  Give me native american beautiful jewelry with those awesome colors or give me nothing at all.


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> Signed Naja pendant from Nizhoni Traders.  Necklaces are my own creations.  Navajo pearls look so beautiful with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4305318


Just wow!  Beautiful.


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> Just wow!  Beautiful.


Thank you!  I need longer Navajo Pearls.......


----------



## Denalikins

All of your guys’ pieces are beautiful! Here’s my three bracelets I wear daily. The first one I’ve worn since I was 5, and the second one is from my dad, and the third is from my mom. The rest are my charm bracelet and two Tiffany’s. Does anyone here have NA blood? I’m half Apache. Anyways it was nice reading this thread!​


----------



## Compass Rose

Denalikins said:


> All of your guys’ pieces are beautiful! Here’s my three bracelets I wear daily. The first one I’ve worn since I was 5, and the second one is from my dad, and the third is from my mom. The rest are my charm bracelet and two Tiffany’s. Does anyone here have NA blood? I’m half Apache. Anyways it was nice reading this thread!​


Susieserb...your bracelets are gorgeous and they remind me of bracelets I bought at the Indian Market in Santa Fe some years ago, so I had to show you![emoji4]


----------



## cdtracing

Denalikins said:


> All of your guys’ pieces are beautiful! Here’s my three bracelets I wear daily. The first one I’ve worn since I was 5, and the second one is from my dad, and the third is from my mom. The rest are my charm bracelet and two Tiffany’s. Does anyone here have NA blood? I’m half Apache. Anyways it was nice reading this thread!​


Great grandmother was Cherokee.


----------



## Compass Rose

Denalikins said:


> All of your guys’ pieces are beautiful! Here’s my three bracelets I wear daily. The first one I’ve worn since I was 5, and the second one is from my dad, and the third is from my mom. The rest are my charm bracelet and two Tiffany’s. Does anyone here have NA blood? I’m half Apache. Anyways it was nice reading this thread!​


I posted a picture above.....I was actually referring to Denalikin's post because our bracelets are somewhat similar.  I think my fingers got away with me this morning.


----------



## Denalikins

Compass Rose said:


> Susieserb...your bracelets are gorgeous and they remind me of bracelets I bought at the Indian Market in Santa Fe some years ago, so I had to show you![emoji4]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4317294


 Beautiful! Our bracelet shape is so unique! It might be from the same artist. I purchased mine at my NA University that has an annual Indian Market where artists from all over the country come to sell their jewelry and art.


----------



## oldbag

Denalikins said:


> All of your guys’ pieces are beautiful! Here’s my three bracelets I wear daily. The first one I’ve worn since I was 5, and the second one is from my dad, and the third is from my mom. The rest are my charm bracelet and two Tiffany’s. Does anyone here have NA blood? I’m half Apache. Anyways it was nice reading this thread!​


----------



## oldbag

First of all your bracelets are breathtaking. I am an elder in the Sault Ste. Marie Chippewa indians. In my tribe blood quantity is not required,it is how long your family member(s) have been on the original census rolls. Mine dates to 1870. I am passionate about turquoise jewelry and it does not hurt that that is also my birthstone. I do not have a big collection but everything I own is authentic. Now one of my great joys is my husband and I helping to support Navaho elders.


----------



## Compass Rose

oldbag said:


> First of all your bracelets are breathtaking. I am an elder in the Sault Ste. Marie Chippewa indians. In my tribe blood quantity is not required,it is how long your family member(s) have been on the original census rolls. Mine dates to 1870. I am passionate about turquoise jewelry and it does not hurt that that is also my birthstone. I do not have a big collection but everything I own is authentic. Now one of my great joys is my husband and I helping to support Navaho elders.


I love you.


----------



## cdtracing

Normally, I wear pearls but not today...I brought out some of my NA jewelry for some love.


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> Normally, I wear pearls but not today...I brought out some of my NA jewelry for some love.]


 Yessss.  You look powerful.

I remember seeing that 3-row square-cut turq bracelet...a beauty. And the squashblossom has is elegant in proportions, with interesting turquoise...do you know the type?  The earrings seem to be amazing, though the angle hides the full glimpse.


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Yessss.  You look powerful.
> 
> I remember seeing that 3-row square-cut turq bracelet...a beauty. And the squashblossom has is elegant in proportions, with interesting turquoise...do you know the type?  The earrings seem to be amazing, though the angle hides the full glimpse.


The bracelet is a Harvey piece from the 40's, squash blossom is from the 60's, the earrings are Zuni. I have wonky ear piercings so earrings don't always hang right. I'm not sure of the turquoise in the squash blossom....Iwill have to locate the paperwork.


----------



## chessmont

cdtracing said:


> Normally, I wear pearls but not today...I brought out some of my NA jewelry for some love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4318370
> View attachment 4318372


so gorgeous!


----------



## Compass Rose

cdtracing said:


> Normally, I wear pearls but not today...I brought out some of my NA jewelry for some love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4318370
> View attachment 4318372


Wow!  Well, cdtracing.....you got the love...that's for sure!  Such stunning creations!  I think I have worn something NA every single day for a couple of years now.  I can't take myself away from it.


----------



## Denalikins

I haven’t seen a lot of beadwork on here, so I thought I’d share!


----------



## jellyv

Denalikins said:


> I haven’t seen a lot of beadwork on here, so I thought I’d share!


Which tradition is this from?


----------



## Compass Rose

Denalikins said:


> I haven’t seen a lot of beadwork on here, so I thought I’d share!


This looks like your pieces are inspired by Zuni petit point.  Very pretty.


----------



## Denalikins

jellyv said:


> Which tradition is this from?


I’m Apache, from the Mescalero Reservation.


----------



## Denalikins

Compass Rose said:


> This looks like your pieces are inspired by Zuni petit point.  Very pretty.


Thank you!


----------



## jellyv

ugh sorry extra post


----------



## jellyv

oops laggy internet sorry


----------



## jellyv

Denalikins said:


> I’m Apache, from the Mescalero Reservation.


So these are items you made? Nice!


----------



## Denalikins

jellyv said:


> So these are items you made? Nice!


Yes, thank you!


----------



## BigTexy

Wow, everyone here has such beautiful jewelry! I don't know anything about this bracelet but I like the simplicity of it. Now I would like a larger bracelet and a ring. I have found some I like on Etsy and Ebay from reputable sources, but I would really appreciate any tips or guidance y'all have regarding price evaluation and quality. Does anyone have any favorite sellers on those sites that you are willing to share with me? It's worth it to me to invest in a nicer piece that is relatively expensive versus acquiring several cheaper, lower quality pieces.


----------



## essiedub

clairejune said:


> I love Native American jewelry! Especially vintage Zuni needle and petite point. Here are some of my pieces....
> 
> 2 Zuni vintage cuffs with a huge vintage Zuni ring..




I really really love your bracelet and ring(s). Is that  3 separate rings or one triple? Are there suggested places to look for these delicate vintage bracelets? Ebay? I am taking note of the designer names that are mentioned here.
Learning so much from this thread. This is new territory for me.  Thank you for posting!


----------



## Compass Rose

I love this Navajo heart pendant!  I can pair it with a whole bunch of southwestern style bead necklaces, but chunky Navajo pearls look the very best.  I need to get a strand.


----------



## sdkitty

Denalikins said:


> Yes, thank you!


those kitties in your avatar are adorable


----------



## Denalikins

sdkitty said:


> those kitties in your avatar are adorable


Thank you. I love cats. Yours is super cute!


----------



## sdkitty

Denalikins said:


> Thank you. I love cats. Yours is super cute!


thanks....he's getting old - around sixteen


----------



## SWlife

Compass Rose said:


> I love this Navajo heart pendant!  I can pair it with a whole bunch of southwestern style bead necklaces, but chunky Navajo pearls look the very best.  I need to get a strand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4365989
> View attachment 4365990



I love that pendant as well. 
When we’re in Albuquerque, I’m always going into shops in Old Town and into pawn shops looking
at beautiful jewelry.


----------



## sdkitty

gacats said:


> I love that pendant as well.
> When we’re in Albuquerque, I’m always going into shops in Old Town and into pawn shops looking
> at beautiful jewelry.


a few years back I was obsessed with native american silver jewelry...my DH was mad because we went to the Grand Canyon and I couldn't wait to get to the gift shop


----------



## Compass Rose

My quest this year when we take a rip out to Sedona and the Grand Canyon will be for some old pawn.  I just love that stuff.  I am interested, particularly, in a cuff.  There are some great websites out there but I think it is just one of those things that you have to try on in person rather than trust measurements.  Maybe I will see you, sdkitty, lurkiing somewhere there....lol!


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> My quest this year when we take a rip out to Sedona and the Grand Canyon will be for some old pawn.  I just love that stuff.  I am interested, particularly, in a cuff.  There are some great websites out there but I think it is just one of those things that you have to try on in person rather than trust measurements.  Maybe I will see you, sdkitty, lurkiing somewhere there....lol!


If you have time I'd suggest you go to Prescott.  I think it's maybe and hour or so drive.  Oggs Hogan has some really nice stuff and much better pricing than sedona.  Have fun.


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> My quest this year when we take a rip out to Sedona and the Grand Canyon will be for some old pawn.  I just love that stuff.  I am interested, particularly, in a cuff.


If you're flying into Phoenix and driving, go by way of Prescott and stop at Ogg's Hogan. It's a candyland with old and new, superb quality. Prescott has a lively shop scene, but Ogg's Hogan is unique; the owner is I think a 5th or 6th-generation trader. A little more off the beaten path than Sedona.

But of course Garland's and Hoel's Indian in Sedona are top notch, though more new stuff than old.


----------



## Compass Rose

sdkitty said:


> If you have time I'd suggest you go to Prescott.  I think it's maybe and hour or so drive.  Oggs Hogan has some really nice stuff and much better pricing than sedona.  Have fun.


Thank you!!!  I definitely will do!


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> If you're flying into Phoenix and driving, go by way of Prescott and stop at Ogg's Hogan. It's a candyland with old and new, superb quality. Prescott has a lively shop scene, but Ogg's Hogan is unique; the owner is I think a 5th or 6th-generation trader. A little more off the beaten path than Sedona.
> 
> But of course Garland's and Hoel's Indian in Sedona are top notch, though more new stuff than old.


Thank you for your advice.  This is how I like to shop!


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> If you have time I'd suggest you go to Prescott.  I think it's maybe and hour or so drive.  Oggs Hogan has some really nice stuff and much better pricing than sedona.  Have fun.



[emoji106]Evidently we posted the same thing at about the same time!Or I accidentally duplicated you.[emoji39]


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> [emoji106]Evidently we posted the same thing at about the same time!borni accidentally duplicated you.[emoji39]


Yes...but it just affirms what I want to see!


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> [emoji106]Evidently we posted the same thing at about the same time!Or I accidentally duplicated you.[emoji39]


yes, one minute apart
I have gotten some smokin deals from Jeff


----------



## jellyv

a


sdkitty said:


> yes, one minute apart
> I have gotten some smokin deals from Jeff



Me too (I know we've talked about this). Really a unique place, hope to get back there in the fall.


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> a
> 
> 
> Me too (I know we've talked about this). Really a unique place, hope to get back there in the fall.


yes, we have talked about it 
funny, I walked past that store for quite a few visits before I went in


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> funny, I walked past that store for quite a few visits before I went in


An advanced collector friend ($$$ buyer)  told me about Jeff and OH. I wouldn't have turned it up otherwise, I think.


----------



## Compass Rose

You guys are killing me.  Ya' know??? Lol.....


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> You guys are killing me.  Ya' know??? Lol.....


my problem is I have several nice pieces that I don't really wear enough.....so doesn't leave me much to shop for


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> my problem is I have several nice pieces that I don't really wear enough.....so doesn't leave me much to shop for


Uh that doesn't stop me.   But I'm picky, picky, which helps a bit.


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> Uh that doesn't stop me.   But I'm picky, picky, which helps a bit.


that's a good thing
I have one silver bracelet that I got in Prescott - not at Oggs Hogan - which I don't wear much.  I think I was determined to buy something ....

my more recent purchases have been much smaller - a couple of pair of earrings which I actually do wear quite often in summer

hope you get there


----------



## essiedub

I am so excited to be able to contribute. Thanks to y’all on this thread, I have developed an appreciation for and fascination with Native American jewelry. Thank you! Here is a ring I picked up at a local antique shop. It was part of a collection of a anthropology professor and his wife. They collected this in the 60’s..Navajo piece from the 40’s (so I’m told) Anyway, I love love the color. Both the stone and the ring are really big.  While I doubt I’d do it anytime soon, as I have no artisan source, I am toying with the idea of converting it into a bracelet cuff, set east-west...is this a bad idea? Here it is on my hand



	

		
			
		

		
	
  And a closeup. Is this Morenci? Or Bisbee?


----------



## Cyanide Rose

gacats said:


> I love that pendant as well.
> When we’re in Albuquerque, I’m always going into shops in Old Town and into pawn shops looking
> at beautiful jewelry.



This is pretty. This reminds me of pieces from Joan Slifka. Nice piece!


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> I am so excited to be able to contribute. Thanks to y’all on this thread, I have developed an appreciation for and fascination with Native American jewelry. Thank you! Here is a ring I picked up at a local antique shop. It was part of a collection of a anthropology professor and his wife. They collected this in the 60’s..Navajo piece from the 40’s (so I’m told) Anyway, I love love the color. Both the stone and the ring are really big.  While I doubt I’d do it anytime soon, as I have no artisan source, I am toying with the idea of converting it into a bracelet cuff, set east-west...is this a bad idea? Here it is on my hand
> 
> View attachment 4371729
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a closeup. Is this Morenci? Or Bisbee?
> View attachment 4371728


Wow!  What a beautiful piece of history to wear on your finger.  If it were me, I would not convert it to anything but keep it as it was made by the artist who may not even be around today.  I love it.


----------



## Compass Rose

Cyanide Rose said:


> This is pretty. This reminds me of pieces from Joan Slifka. Nice piece!


Thank you!  I do not know the Navajo artist who created this pendant, but here is the hallmark. I looked her up and it looks like she is more contemporary.. ...[emoji5]


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> Here is a ring I picked up at a local antique shop. It was part of a collection of a anthropology professor and his wife. They collected this in the 60’s..Navajo piece from the 40’s (so I’m told)
> I am toying with the idea of converting it into a bracelet cuff, set east-west...is this a bad idea? Here it is on my hand
> 
> And a closeup. Is this Morenci? Or Bisbee?


Beautiful ring, congrats. It looks like a 60s-70s ring, not 40s. Definitely not Bisbee, could be Morenci if there are little bits of pyrite in it (silver) as it seems. It's supposed to be a big honkin' ring so I would leave it like that.  For sure!


----------



## sdkitty

essiedub said:


> I am so excited to be able to contribute. Thanks to y’all on this thread, I have developed an appreciation for and fascination with Native American jewelry. Thank you! Here is a ring I picked up at a local antique shop. It was part of a collection of a anthropology professor and his wife. They collected this in the 60’s..Navajo piece from the 40’s (so I’m told) Anyway, I love love the color. Both the stone and the ring are really big.  While I doubt I’d do it anytime soon, as I have no artisan source, I am toying with the idea of converting it into a bracelet cuff, set east-west...is this a bad idea? Here it is on my hand
> 
> View attachment 4371729
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a closeup. Is this Morenci? Or Bisbee?
> View attachment 4371728


I agree with the others that you should keep it as-is.  If you did want to convert it to a bracelet I think you'd have a hard time finding someone to do a good job on it.  It wouldn't be cheap and you might regret it.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Wow!  What a beautiful piece of history to wear on your finger.  If it were me, I would not convert it to anything but keep it as it was *made* *by* *the* *artist* who may not even be around today.  I love it.



Thanks *compassRose*! Yes, preserve the artists intent. 



jellyv said:


> Beautiful ring, congrats. It looks like a 60s-70s ring, not 40s. Definitely not Bisbee, could be Morenci if there are little *bits* *of* *pyrite* in it (silver) as it seems. It's supposed to be a big honkin' ring so I would leave it like that.  For sure!



Ooh thanks for the clues *jellyv* ! Yes there is pyrite.  Wow, I need to get a book and get educated. How can you tell that it’s 60’s 70s..is it the style of the surround?



sdkitty said:


> I agree with the others that you should keep it as-is.  If you did want to convert it to a bracelet I think you'd have a hard time finding someone to do a good job on it.  It wouldn't be cheap and you might regret it.



Yes I agree with you all. Leave it as is. Thank you for keeping me sane and preserving history!


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> Ooh thanks for the clues *jellyv* ! Yes there is pyrite.  Wow, I need to get a book and get educated. How can you tell that it’s 60’s 70s..is it the style of the surround?


Yes, just a feeling for the style, with those little hash marks into the silver bezel (surround) on the left side. The braided silver on the other part of the bezel is unusual, special. It would take real provenance and hands-on to date it firmly. 

Morenci is a high-quality stone!


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Compass Rose said:


> Thank you!.[emoji5]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4371939



She makes a lot of heart pieces, but her hallmark is different then yours. Here is a link to check out some Native American hallmarks if you are interested [emoji4]

https://www.art-amerindien.com/signature_bijoux_amerindiens.htm

I have a very large kingman turquoise ring and I love it. It gets a lot of compliments when I wear it. I love a nice statement piece. You may come across a bracelet that will match it beautifully, then you would have a nice set [emoji5]


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> [emoji106]Evidently we posted the same thing at about the same time!Or I accidentally duplicated you.[emoji39]


I don't know why people would pay high prices for dept store jewelry like David Yurman when one can find unique Native American pieces for much less.  Just my opinion.  I know a lot of people here on the PF love big name merchandise.


----------



## Compass Rose

Cyanide Rose said:


> She makes a lot of heart pieces, but her hallmark is different then yours. Here is a link to check out some Native American hallmarks if you are interested [emoji4]
> 
> https://www.art-amerindien.com/signature_bijoux_amerindiens.htm
> 
> I
> That is my go-to!!  I have found quite a few of my own pieces with some of those hallmarks and I truly did the happy dance when I could place a name to the piece.  Not to hijack your reply to this, but I have a ring that I purchased in 1973 in a tiny store in St. Clair, Michigan that has the most beautiful stone.  I am going to post a picture of this ring...but the ring is not hallmarked and the stone has pyrite in it, which drew me to it right away.  I was wondering if jellyv could tell me if she thought the stone was Morenci.  I never even asked the sales person one thing about the history or artist because I just was drawn to native american jewelry for its beauty and that was it. Now, I am obsessed with finding out all I can about everything I own.


----------



## Compass Rose

Here is the ring...can anyone tell me which type of turquoise this is?   The pyrite is extremely noticeable in the sun.
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
  I could try to get a better picture of it....


----------



## Compass Rose

Better....  thank you...you experts out there!


----------



## jellyv

Ooh second pic is better.  How pretty!
Eccch it's hard to go "on record" to identify most turquoise on the basis of few pics, but let me say that pyrite doesn't only indicate Morenci. (I think the pyrite gives the stone a lot of character!) Kingman can also have pyrite. Kingman has a chunkier black matrix compared to Morenci, and CR's is chunkier black--but Kingman's also more toward baby blue than Morenci--so I'd vote Morenci for this one too. It could also be Kingman in essiedub's ring; it would take real examination to tell.
Inexact, lol!


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> Eccch it's hard to go "on record" to identify most turquoise on the basis of few detailed pics, but let me say that pyrite doesn't only indicate Morenci. (I think the pyrite gives the stone a lot of character!) Kingman can also have pyrite. Kingman usually has a chunkier black matrix compared to Morenci, so I'd guess Kingman in CR's ring. It could also be Kingman in essiedub's ring; it would take real examination to tell.


I know!   But I love the discussions about it! For as much as I knew about it when I bought 100 years ago, at least I have an idea that something was created by hand that contained an earth element by a native american who didn't work for Debeers


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> I know!   But I love the discussions about it! For as much as I knew about it when I bought 100 years ago, at least I have an idea that something was created by hand that contained an earth element by a native american who didn't work for Debeers


I edited my comment to change my vote to Morenci. 

SO true lol!


----------



## Compass Rose

......not that there is anything wrong with Debeers......


----------



## SWlife

Here’s a handy chart showing sample stones from many Southwest mines.


----------



## jellyv

gacats said:


> Here’s a handy chart showing sample stones from many Southwest mines.



IMO this vintage map (I think originally 1970s-early 1980s) is good for showing _where _the mines were rather than the nature and color of their turquoise.  Print is notoriously difficult for capturing turquoise. One pretty good resource for showing the colors fairly accurately is Turquoise Unearthed by Joe Lowry. I have a comprehensive library on this stuff and while I like my books, the color reproduction drives me crazy!

https://www.amazon.com/Turquoise-Unearthed-Joe-Dan-Lowry/dp/1887896333


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Hi all [emoji4] Any thoughts on this piece on turquoise in this ring? Unfortunately, here is a crack on the side of the cab ( top left) but it’s not loose in the setting.


----------



## jellyv

Cyanide Rose said:


> Hi all [emoji4] Any thoughts on this piece on turquoise in this ring? Unfortunately, here is a crack on the side of the cab ( top left) but it’s not loose in the setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4373123


Wow that's a beauty. I'm inclined to say Bisbee, which if so you really lucked out. I've been hunting good Bisbee for a long time and haven't found what I need yet.  There's a Bisbee-set Navajo bracelet online with the most amazing Bisbee I've ever seen, with wispy veils of matrix, but it's $9K so...not today.  

I just turned up a super link for turquoise images and explanation of types. Browse and enjoy.
http://tucsonturquoise.com/southwest-turquoise/


----------



## Compass Rose

Cyanide Rose said:


> Hi all [emoji4] Any thoughts on this piece on turquoise in this ring? Unfortunately, here is a crack on the side of the cab ( top left) but it’s not loose in the setting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4373123


A beauty!!


----------



## Cyanide Rose

jellyv said:


> Wow that's a beauty. I'm inclined to say Bisbee, which if so you really lucked out. I've been hunting good Bisbee I've ever seen, with wispy veils of matrix, but it's $9K so...not today.
> 
> I just turned up a super link for turquoise images and explanation of types. Browse and enjoy.
> http://tucsonturquoise.com/southwest-turquoise/





Compass Rose said:


> A beauty!!



Thanks a bunch jellyv! I bookmarked that site, I really appreciate it! Gorgeous piece but like you said not today[emoji5]


Thanks so much Compass Rose [emoji4]


----------



## jellyv

I misremembered the price of the Bisbee bracelet I've been drooling over for too long. It's* $35,000.* Wanna see? I've never, ever, seen Bisbee of this quality and nature. Ultra-famous maker accounts for the tag in part, but...looky:

https://www.sedonaindianjewelry.com...vintage-smokey-bisbee-turquoise-bracelet.html


----------



## Cyanide Rose

jellyv said:


> I misremembered the price of the Bisbee bracelet I've been drooling over for too long. It's* $35,000.* Wanna see? I've never, ever, seen Bisbee of this quality and nature. Ultra-famous maker accounts for the tag in part, but...looky:
> 
> https://www.sedonaindianjewelry.com...vintage-smokey-bisbee-turquoise-bracelet.html



WOW [emoji50] Mark Chee too! It is TDF! They remind me of butterfly wings [emoji16]

Ugh autocorrect [emoji58]


----------



## SWlife

jellyv said:


> IMO this vintage map (I think originally 1970s-early 1980s) is good for showing _where _the mines were rather than the nature and color of their turquoise.  Print is notoriously difficult for capturing turquoise. One pretty good resource for showing the colors fairly accurately is Turquoise Unearthed by Joe Lowry. I have a comprehensive library on this stuff and while I like my books, the color reproduction drives me crazy!
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Turquoise-Unearthed-Joe-Dan-Lowry/dp/1887896333



I worked at a couple of printing companies in Denver in the 80’s & getting color correct IS really difficult.
My HG Stone is Cerrillos - I hope to find a piece someday. I sold my Bisbee cuff when I needed some quick funds. I regret that.


----------



## Compass Rose

Sorry, friends.....just added it to my cart!  Woohoo!!!!    Pffffttt........wishing....


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> Sorry, friends.....just added it to my cart!  Woohoo!!!!    Pffffttt........wishing....



HA!  It won't ever be me, but it's a treat to even have seen this.


----------



## jellyv

gacats said:


> My HG Stone is Cerrillos - I hope to find a piece someday. I sold my Bisbee cuff when I needed some quick funds. I regret that.


Cerrillos is certainly fab and in high demand now that old green turq is more prized than it had been. I have some good Cerrillos I may get around to posting here.  Some of the old Fred Harvey bracelets have Cerrillos stones, though I don't collect that material.

We've all sold things that we regret, no doubt!


----------



## SWlife

jellyv said:


> Cerrillos is certainly fab and in high demand now that old green turq is more prized than it had been. I have some good Cerrillos I may get around to posting here.  Some of the old Fred Harvey bracelets have Cerrillos stones, though I don't collect that material.
> 
> We've all sold things that we regret, no doubt!



Love to see some of your Cerrillos! I did see one FH bracelet in Santa Fe a couple of years ago. Walked away from it. Hate when I try to behave.


----------



## Compass Rose

My only memory of Cerrillos was buying and cracking open a few geodes many years ago that had some pretty good crystals in them.  It was a quaint little town with a general store and we helped ourselves to a tour of an absolutely beautiful courtyard off the main street that we later discovered was a private yard.  Yikes.


----------



## SWlife

Compass Rose said:


> My only memory of Cerrillos was buying and cracking open a few geodes many years ago that had some pretty good crystals in them.  It was a quaint little town with a general store and we helped ourselves to a tour of an absolutely beautiful courtyard off the main street that we later discovered was a private yard.  Yikes.



That’s a lovely memory!


----------



## cdtracing

@jellyv, That Mark Chee bracelet is TDF & definitely droolworthy!!!  I could never afford it but it's a pleasure just to see it!  Thank you for sharing.


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> @jellyv, That Mark Chee bracelet is TDF & definitely droolworthy!!!  I could never afford it but it's a pleasure just to see it!.



Those stones have to be about the rarest examples ever of Bisbee, and some of the rarest of all  turquoise ever set for jewelry.  You just gasp and have a deep sense of wonder when you see (or own) extraordinary turq that's so unlike the everyday material. That's what they mean about "zat," amirite ladies?


----------



## cdtracing

jellyv said:


> Those stones have to be about the rarest examples ever of Bisbee, and some of the rarest of all  turquoise ever set for jewelry.  You just gasp and have a deep sense of wonder when you see (or own) extraordinary turq that's so unlike the everyday material. That's what they mean about "zat," amirite ladies?


Yes, I agree.  The turquoise is extremely rare!  It's mesmerizing & ethereal, mystical, in fact!  It just draws you in.


----------



## Compass Rose

It absolutely draws you in.  I think that expresses all the feels to anyone who loves to look at and appreciate such a rare grade of  turquoise.


----------



## essiedub

gacats said:


> View attachment 4372282
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s a handy chart showing sample stones from many Southwest mines.



This is so intersting that there are more mines in Nevada than in Arizona.


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> I misremembered the price of the Bisbee bracelet I've been drooling over for too long. It's* $35,000.* Wanna see? I've never, ever, seen Bisbee of this quality and nature. Ultra-famous maker accounts for the tag in part, but...looky:
> 
> https://www.sedonaindianjewelry.com...vintage-smokey-bisbee-turquoise-bracelet.html


Ok that’s a total wow! 
Like those blue iridescent butterflies!

I am having so much fun on this thread! I think in part because of the range of designs, stone sources, but mostly because the stones are still natural, not “overprocessed” from faceting etc. You really get a sense of place.


----------



## essiedub

Ok I’m a bit obsessed. What do you think of this piece? I find that I prefer the chunkier pieces...a real departure for me, but feel that the bigger size captures the essence of the stone, if that makes sense.  This is not a fair question, but should I but it at about $300..or are there better options out there?

P.s. that bluer one in the background was HUGE!


----------



## Cyanide Rose

essiedub said:


> Ok I’m a bit obsessed. What do you think of this piece? I find This is not a fair question, but should I but it at about $300..or are there better options out there?
> 
> P.s. that bluer one in the background was HUGE!
> 
> View attachment 4376395
> View attachment 4376396



I like it! Is the weight ok to you? Is this an everyday piece for you? I like unique and chunky pieces [emoji5]


----------



## Cyanide Rose

I’ve been wearing this off and on for a couple weeks now. Thanks for letting me share [emoji4]


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Picture of the inlay [emoji16]


----------



## essiedub

Cyanide Rose said:


> Picture of the inlay [emoji16]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4376464


That’s a really interesting bracelet with the inlay style on one side and the “regular” settings on the other...does it have a hinge?  Love the ring and the neat silverwork! Is this sleeping beauty?

Re: my bracelet...it’s  pretty comfortable surprisingly. Just not sure enough of myself at ths stage of my foray into Native American jewelry, whether this is considered a good example of what it is, or  whether it s even a good price. Is it?


----------



## Cyanide Rose

essiedub said:


> ThatIs this sleeping beauty?Is it?



Thanks so much! The bracelet is a sold thick piece. I’ll post a picture in the next post. It won’t let me add a picture to a reply on this app for some reason. The turquoise in the ring is a Birdseye kingman or water web  kingman turquoise. 

I think a fair price is whatever you want to pay for it. I’ve seen that style of bracelet sell for way more than what you paid for it.   Does it have any markings on it? 

The designer of my cuff was just starting out in the late 80’s or so and this was one of his first pieces. His mom was selling his pieces at a place in Arizona. I can’t remember the name of it but it’s a very popular place or fair. I think that’s why it is so different. It is quite heavy as well. I really like its uniqueness and it’s a one of a kind piece [emoji5]


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Top view
ETA: the inlay on the sides don’t match either. The second one isn’t two pieces on the other side, it’s just one solid piece.


----------



## Compass Rose

Cyanide Rose said:


> Top view
> ETA: the inlay on the sides don’t match either. The second one isn’t two pieces on the other side, it’s just one solid piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4376603


That is  a stunning piece to say the least.  And you really had me when you said that the inlays don't match on each side.  That is what I love!  It is so unique!


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> Ok I’m a bit obsessed. What do you think of this piece? I find that I prefer the chunkier pieces...a real departure for me, but feel that the bigger size captures the essence of the stone, if that makes sense.  This is not a fair question, but should I but it at about $300..or are there better options out there?
> 
> P.s. that bluer one in the background was HUGE!
> 
> View attachment 4376395
> View attachment 4376396


That piece is very substantial and knowing me....I would think that your price that you mentioned is very fare.  I love the older pieces!


----------



## cdtracing

essiedub said:


> Ok I’m a bit obsessed. What do you think of this piece? I find that I prefer the chunkier pieces...a real departure for me, but feel that the bigger size captures the essence of the stone, if that makes sense.  This is not a fair question, but should I but it at about $300..or are there better options out there?
> 
> P.s. that bluer one in the background was HUGE!
> 
> View attachment 4376395
> View attachment 4376396


Love the bracelet.  For $300, I would get it!!!  I love the size of it!!


----------



## cdtracing

Cyanide Rose said:


> I’ve been wearing this off and on for a couple weeks now. Thanks for letting me share [emoji4]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4376463


Love this, CR!  Your bracelet is so unique!


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Compass Rose said:


> That is  a stunning piece to say the least.  And you really had me when you said that the inlays don't match on each side.  That is what I love!  It is so unique!



Thanks CR! You absolutely right, that’s exactly what drew me to it [emoji16]


----------



## Cyanide Rose

cdtracing said:


> Love this, CR!  Your bracelet is so unique!



Thanks so much CD! I was just on the other board drooling at your pearls. You collection is amazing!


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> Ok I’m a bit obsessed. What do you think of this piece? I find that I prefer the chunkier pieces...a real departure for me, but feel that the bigger size captures the essence of the stone, if that makes sense.  This is not a fair question, but should I but it at about $300]



It's a well-done massive bracelet that is all about the turquoise. Very attractively done bezels and yummy stones. The only thing that would give me pause personally is that I think I see a horizontally cracked stone on the big upright green stone at far right--is that correct? Or is it just superficial crazing?

Collectors should think through whether they will buy items with cracked stones. I don't. (Those buying at the highest end, the early material, often find bracelets with cracked stones, and for historic pieces it's considered okay by many. I don't think the same is true for more accessible-level pieces.)  So the price is good, but something to think about.


----------



## jellyv

Cyanide Rose said:


> Top view
> ETA: the inlay on the sides don’t match either. The second one isn’t two pieces on the other side, it’s just one solid piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4376603


Wow! Look how chunky that silverwork is and such  an interesting design concept. Almost like a Zuni-Navajo collaboration piece.


----------



## Cyanide Rose

jellyv said:


> Wow! Look how chunky that silverwork is and such  an interesting design concept. Almost like a Zuni-Navajo collaboration piece.



Yes! I completely agree [emoji4] Thanks so much jellyv!


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> It's a well-done massive bracelet that is all about the turquoise. Very attractively done bezels and yummy stones. The only thing that would give me pause personally is that I think I see a horizontally cracked stone on the big upright green stone at far right--is that correct? Or is it just superficial crazing?
> 
> Collectors should think through whether they will buy items with cracked stones. I don't. (Those buying at the highest end, the early material, often find bracelets with cracked stones, and for historic pieces it's considered okay by many. I don't think the same is true for more accessible-level pieces.)  So the price is good, but something to think about.




Oh thank you. I did not even notice. I’ll have to go in and take a closer look. Thank you for helping to educate my eye!


----------



## essiedub

cdtracing said:


> Love the bracelet.  For $300, I would get it!!!  I love the size of it!!


Thank you *cdtracing*! I’m new to this ..so clueless on pricing.
Will also take in *jellyv’s* observation on looking for cracks.

Love this thread. Everyone is so helpful!


----------



## cdtracing

essiedub said:


> Thank you *cdtracing*! I’m new to this ..so clueless on pricing.
> Will also take in *jellyv’s* observation on looking for cracks.
> 
> Love this thread. Everyone is so helpful!


Yes, be sure to check into the crack.  I did not notice it when I first looked at it.


----------



## SWlife

This is an Instagram post by Sunwest on the Plaza in Santa Fe. 




Turquoise comes in so many shapes and sizes, it’s hard to keep track. North American Turquoise is some of the most envied in the world for its beautiful color matrix and high-grade quality, but there are several other turquoise types from around the world that are equally beautiful and collectible.

All turquoise is unique & collectible, and there are rare turquoises that are coveted around the world. We have created this short guide to help you know when the turquoise you are considering is indeed rare. The more knowledge you have, the more comfortable you can be when you make your next turquoise purchase.

Below are a few types of rare turquoise you should be looking for:



CARICO LAKE TURQUOISE



The mine in Nevada produces turquoise with an astoundingly vibrant color palette, ranging from electric greens to mossy, earth greens. This mine has also produces blue turquoise in a range of colors as well.

But very rarely (less than 3% of the time), this mine will produce an apple green turquoise, with a type of vibrancy unmatched by any other type of turquoise. The color, contrasting the matrix, make it a one-of-a-kind kind of gem. Sunwest Silver Co owns the Carico Lake Turquoise mine and offers a considerable collection of Carico Lake Turquoise available in rough, cabs and strands.

The Carico Lake mine also produces turquoise psuedomorphs or fossil clams, featured in the above photo. Extremely rare and valuable, fossil turquoise from the Nevada mine is often set in jewelry by high-end artisans.



BISEBEE TURQUOISE



Originally a huge copper mine, this mine produces a royal blue turquoise. Only one company was given the lease to the mine, and in that time, less than 2,000 lbs of high-grade stone was recovered.

With so few of these gems ever found, the stone is extremely rare. It’s prominent color and chocolate matrix make it a collector's prize. This gem should definitely be on your bucket list.



STENNICH TURQUOISE
A collector's stone, this historic Nevada mine is in Crescent Valley, Nevada. Originally nicknamed 'Zuni Nuggets', this turquoise is naturally hard & high-grade. Due to gold acquisitions covering parts of the mine, Stennich is very hard to find today.



DAMELE TURQUOISE
A small mine, Damele produces very limited quantities of this beautiful green and yellow-green turquoise. Most desirable is the bright lime green turquoise that comes from this mine. Most of what the mine produces today is variscite, the turquoise coming from older collections. This makes Damele a highly-sought after turquoise.



DARLING DARLENE TURQUOISE
Taken from a small mine in Northern Nevada, Darling Darlene Turquoise can come in a fairly wide range of colors including blue-green to light blue. The mine was initially a small operation, and later became a gold mine, limiting the amount of this particular turquoise that actually hits the market. Originally opened in the 1970's, the mine was named for the owners daughter, who passed away early in life. Most Darling Darlene Turquoise is natural, which only adds to it's overall rarity.



The value of rare turquoise continues to rise. As an American Legacy in limited supply, all North American turquoise is highly collectible. Visit us in Albuquerque and ask for a tour of our personal collection. Sunwest Silver is home to one to the world's largest personal collections of North American turquoise. We hope to see you soon!


----------



## Compass Rose

gacats said:


> This is an Instagram post by Sunwest on the Plaza in Santa Fe.
> 
> You are making me homesick.....I love this store.


----------



## SWlife

I hear ya, girl.


----------



## jellyv

gacats said:


> This is an Instagram post by Sunwest on the Plaza in Santa Fe.
> 
> 
> DAMELE TURQUOISE
> A small mine, Damele produces very limited quantities of this beautiful green and yellow-green turquoise. Most desirable is the bright lime green turquoise that comes from this mine. Most of what the mine produces today is variscite, the turquoise coming from older collections. This makes Damele a highly-sought after turquoise.



Inspired by this post, I thought I'd add some shots of one of my beloved bracelets with Damale turquoise (also spelled Damele)--actual turquoise and not variscite.  These are old stash, mined in the 70s.  Because the stones are so unique I"m adding several angles.  By Guy Hoskie, with lapidary by Bruce Eckhardt. 
	

		
			
		

		
	






	

		
			
		

		
	
 You can see the unusual lime green, and one stone has a streak of rust color.


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv.....I so appreciate the beauty of your beautiful bracelet!  I am in love.  That one has a story that will be kept secret from us forever.  This is what I love.....the hidden stories that probably will never be told about just what went into the creation of these pieces, and the lives of people who wore these pieces.  Sounds dramatic, I know....but that is what I think about when I see something like this.


----------



## jellyv

^Dang I meant bracelet singular, not plural, didn't get to edit in time. 

Thank you, CR. I saw a Damale once and didn't get it, so when this popped up I sure did.

The story of the great turquoise really is interesting, as is the mining tradition and the enterprising new mine-openers who are still on the hunt. Years ago there was a Yahoo group on turquoise mines, with posts mostly by rock hounds. They're every bit as avid as we NA jewelry people are. One day I need to get out to the Tucson gem and mineral show, the mothership.


----------



## Compass Rose

Today...I am wearing this!


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## jellyv

I love that necklace! The small naja idea is great. I have a cousin to this with a solid silver naja-like pendant, also with the small beads (aren't they fun and easy to wear?).


----------



## cdtracing

Beautiful & rare bracelet, Jellyv!!  It has such character & personality!!!


----------



## jellyv

cdtracing said:


> Beautiful & rare bracelet, Jellyv!!  It has such character & personality!!!


Thank you. The coloring is super attractive on the wrist, a really nice change of pace from our usual beloved blues. The stones glow.


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> I love that necklace! The small naja idea is great. I have a cousin to this with a solid silver naja-like pendant, also with the small beads (aren't they fun and easy to wear?).


I  really like wearing this piece with a small 16" navajo pearl strand.   If I stay on the small side, I tend to rotate those pieces the most and get the best wear out of them.  This naja is only 2" x 3".


----------



## SWlife

jellyv said:


> Inspired by this post, I thought I'd add some shots of one of my beloved bracelets with Damale turquoise (also spelled Damele)--actual turquoise and not variscite.  These are old stash, mined in the 70s.  Because the stones are so unique I"m adding several angles.  By Guy Hoskie, with lapidary by Bruce Eckhardt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4378011
> View attachment 4378012
> View attachment 4378013
> View attachment 4378014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the unusual lime green, and one stone has a streak of rust color.



Lovely!


----------



## essiedub

Cyanide Rose said:


> I like it! Is the weight ok to you? Is this an everyday piece for you? I like unique and chunky pieces [emoji5]




O.m.g. * CyanideRose*! You have a great eye!! This one’s for you! 
Sensational... and now I don’t think it’s too big


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## Cyanide Rose

essiedub said:


> O.m.g. * CyanideRose*! You have a great eye!! This one’s for you!
> Sensational... and now I don’t think it’s too big



I second your OMG [emoji50]!! Wowzers! It’s so awesome!


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## Compass Rose

So spectacular!!!


----------



## cdtracing

essiedub said:


> O.m.g. * CyanideRose*! You have a great eye!! This one’s for you!
> Sensational... and now I don’t think it’s too big


WOWZA!!! I love that bracelet!  That is a ROCKIN' look!!  I would wear that!!!


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Dig these out today, not sure what type of jade they are but I’m gonna dust them off and wear them [emoji5]


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## Cyanide Rose

The back [emoji4]


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## Compass Rose

Cyanide Rose said:


> The back [emoji4]
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4387737


What a beautiful combination of colors!!  Yes....wear them!


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## Cyanide Rose

Compass Rose said:


> What a beautiful combination of colors!!  Yes....wear them!



Thanks so much! I have never worn them before, I hope they aren’t too big on me [emoji4]


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## cdtracing

Gorgeous & perfect to ring in spring!


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## jellyv

Cyanide Rose said:


> The back [emoji4]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4387737



Andy Cadman's a relative of the silversmith who made my Damale turq bracelet that I shared above, Guy Hoskie. Quite the talented family, including Sunshine and Gary Reeves.  Love the combo of turquoise and spiny oyster! I wish I had something in spiny oyster.

Essiedub, that's one heck of a cuff. The massive cluster style with varied-shape turquoise was popular for some decades, typically for men's cuffs, as this one would have been.


----------



## Cyanide Rose

cdtracing said:


> Gorgeous & perfect to ring in spring!



Thanks so much CD! I need nice weather here, it’s been pretty yucky [emoji4]


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## Cyanide Rose

jellyv said:


> Andy Cadman's a relative of the silversmith who made my Damale turq bracelet that I shared above, Guy Hoskie. Quite the talented family, including Sunshine and Gary Reeves.  Love the combo of turquoise and spiny oyster! I wish I had something in spiny oyster.
> 
> Essiedub, that's one heck of a cuff. The massive cluster style with varied-shape turquoise was popular for some decades, typically for men's cuffs, as this one would have been.



That’s good to know! Thanks for that information! I am trying not to buy anymore since I only have two wrist but it’s difficult [emoji16]


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## Compass Rose

I say, if you can't see it from across the street, then it is too small.  haha!!


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## Cyanide Rose

Compass Rose said:


> I say, if you can't see it from across the street, then it is too small.  haha!!



LOL [emoji6]


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## essiedub

jellyv said:


> Andy Cadman's a relative of the silversmith who made my Damale turq bracelet that I shared above, Guy Hoskie. Quite the talented family, including Sunshine and Gary Reeves.  Love the combo of turquoise and spiny oyster! I wish I had something in spiny oyster.
> 
> Essiedub, that's one heck of a cuff. The massive cluster style with varied-shape turquoise was popular for some decades, typically for men's cuffs, as this one would have been.



I actually don’t own this cuff. This was at the same store that had the one I posted earlier with the cracked stone.  It’s  quite something! (I am finding that I prefer this “cluster of stones” look on a cuff..)
 I hope this one finds a TPF home ..hint hint


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## essiedub

Cyanide Rose said:


> That’s good to know! Thanks for that information! I *am trying not to buy anymore since I only have two wrist *but it’s difficult* [emoji16]*




Wut? As the saying goes, “More is more!” Doesn’t this look terrific?! I aspire to this


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## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> I say, if you can't see it from across the street, then it is too small.  haha!!



I drink to this


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## Cyanide Rose

essiedub said:


> Wut? As the saying goes, “More is more!” Doesn’t this look terrific?! I aspire to this
> View attachment 4388520



Oh this looks amazing!!! I want them all [emoji16]


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## sdkitty

I just can't see spending big money on something like David Yurman when you can get unique pieces like these, esp. for those of us in the Western part of the country.


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## cdtracing

essiedub said:


> I actually don’t own this cuff. This was at the same store that had the one I posted earlier with the cracked stone.  It’s  quite something! (I am finding that I prefer this “cluster of stones” look on a cuff..)
> I hope this one finds a TPF home ..hint hint


Does the store have a website where I can check the bracelet out??


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## Cyanide Rose

cdtracing said:


> Does the store have a website where I can check the bracelet out??



They don’t anymore. I wish the still did.


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## cdtracing

Cyanide Rose said:


> They don’t anymore. I wish the still did.


----------



## Compass Rose

I subscribe to Cowboys & Indians magazine.  There are always the most mouth-watering ads in there for beautiful native american jewelry from some of the most exquisite galleries around the southwestern part of the country.  Also, they sometimes feature reconstructed LV bags that have conchos and fringe and beautiful leather embellishments that just make my head spin.  It is my favorite magazine that is just littering my coffee table at the moment.  You will see yourselves in those pages.....


----------



## Phillyfan

Where is best site to purchase REAL Native American Jewelry online?


----------



## sdkitty

Phillyfan said:


> Where is best site to purchase REAL Native American Jewelry online?


Garland's in Sedona is a nice store with authentic Native American jewelry and they have a website.  Not necessarily the best prices but .....maybe someone else here will have other ideas for you

lots (if not most) of this jewelry comes from New Mexico


----------



## jellyv

Phillyfan said:


> Where is best site to purchase REAL Native American Jewelry online?


There are many. Depends on what you're interested in--price level,  vintage vs. new.  Most of these are brick and mortar shops that have vastly more merch than they put online.

Here are several aside from Garland's, which is a great starting point. These dealers are part of the professional associations that assure you're buying authentic NA material (they may carry some Anglo made stuff but if so they will scrupulously identify it). You can google for the specific website links for these businesses:

Cameron Trading Post  (more affordable range)
Bahti Indian Arts
Hoels Indian Shop
Four Winds Gallery (I do a lot of damage there)
Territorial Indian Arts
Turkey Mountain Traders
Rainbowman (in Santa Fe)
Turquoise and Tufa (successor site of one of the highest-end and famous dealers, Marti Struever, RIP)
Browns Trading Co.
Vicki Turbeville
Medicine Man Gallery
Abby Kent Flythe
Shiprock Santa Fe (THE highest end of them all)


These should fill your eyeballs!


----------



## sdkitty

Phillyfan said:


> Where is best site to purchase REAL Native American Jewelry online?


much better and more fun to shop in person if you can get to AZ or NM


----------



## sdkitty

one time I got DH to take me to Gallup NM as I'd heard a lot of the jewelry originates there......Not really a fun tourist town.  And I didn't find anything there.  Probably if you knew which shops to go to it would be worthwhile.


----------



## SWlife

sdkitty said:


> one time I got DH to take me to Gallup NM as I'd heard a lot of the jewelry originates there......Not really a fun tourist town.  And I didn't find anything there.  Probably if you knew which shops to go to it would be worthwhile.



I went into one of the most highly rated trading posts in Gallup - Perry Null- and stood in front of the squash blossom necklaces, waiting for someone, anyone, to come help me so I could make a purchase. Nobody ever did. I went to the other side of the store to ask if anyone could assist me. I was informed that they were too busy with their pawn clients to help me at that time. That was an eye opener.


----------



## SWlife

So I’m going to try Albuquerque Pawn next month. I like what I see on their Instagram feed.


----------



## jellyv

gacats said:


> I went into one of the most highly rated trading posts in Gallup - Perry Null- and stood in front of the squash blossom necklaces, waiting for someone, anyone, to come help me so I could make a purchase. Nobody ever did. I went to the other side of the store to ask if anyone could assist me. I was informed that they were too busy with their pawn clients to help me at that time. That was an eye opener.



That’s disappointing and surprising. Perry Null does have amazing stuff and they’re so long established.


----------



## cdtracing

gacats said:


> I went into one of the most highly rated trading posts in Gallup - Perry Null- and stood in front of the squash blossom necklaces, waiting for someone, anyone, to come help me so I could make a purchase. Nobody ever did. I went to the other side of the store to ask if anyone could assist me. I was informed that they were too busy with their pawn clients to help me at that time. That was an eye opener.


WOW, just WOW!  Disappointing, to say the least.


----------



## SWlife

cdtracing said:


> WOW, just WOW!  Disappointing, to say the least.



I was upset by it. That’s a bit of a trip, to Gallup.


----------



## cdtracing

gacats said:


> I was upset by it. That’s a bit of a trip, to Gallup.


I can imagine.  It's just sad to make a trip like that only to be treated so badly.


----------



## chessmont

More than 20 years years ago, there was a teeny-weeny shop in the square in the city of Sonoma that had the most amazing prices for NA jewelry.  Most of the things I posted here are from there.  $200 for a wide coral bracelet? wow!  Can't remember what I paid for anything else but I was sad to see it gone after a visit to the town. Rents probably priced them out.  I don't even remember the name of it


----------



## Cyanide Rose

This is a bit off topic, but I notice some Native American jewelry has swastikas. I’m putting some jewelry in my Etsy store and I don’t want to offend anyone. Do you think this is a variation of a swastika?


----------



## bellebellebelle19

Cyanide Rose said:


> This is a bit off topic, but I notice some Native American jewelry has swastikas. I’m putting some jewelry in my Etsy store and I don’t want to offend anyone. Do you think this is a variation of a swastika?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> View attachment 4401148


Lots of great info here: https://www.cabq.gov/culturalservices/kimo/about-the-theatre/kimo-history/swastikas


----------



## jellyv

Cyanide Rose said:


> This is a bit off topic, but I notice some Native American jewelry has swastikas. I’m putting some jewelry in my Etsy store and I don’t want to offend anyone. Do you think this is a variation of a swastika?


To my eye it has no close relationship to the swastika. The center gridlike design has some similarity, but vague. The star shape itself is like the Valero Star found in Navajo rugs and also in American quilts.

Swastika goes back far and wide in world imagery, in Buddhism and Hinduism as well as Native Americana. In NA jewelry it fell out of use in the WWII era.


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## Cyanide Rose

bellebellebelle19 said:


> Lots of great info here: https://www.cabq.gov/culturalservices/kimo/about-the-theatre/kimo-history/swastikas





jellyv said:


> To my eye it has no close relationship to the swastika. The center gridlike design has some similarity, but vague. The star shape itself is like the Valero Star found in Navajo rugs and also in American quilts.
> 
> Swastika goes back far and wide in world imagery, in Buddhism and Hinduism as well as Native Americana. In NA jewelry it fell out of use in the WWII era.



Thank you both so much [emoji4]

I have a friend that was a bit turned off by it, so I wanted to get more feedback. Thanks again [emoji4]


----------



## chessmont

chessmont said:


> More than 20 years years ago, there was a teeny-weeny shop in the square in the city of Sonoma that had the most amazing prices for NA jewelry.  Most of the things I posted here are from there.  $200 for a wide coral bracelet? wow!  Can't remember what I paid for anything else but I was sad to see it gone after a visit to the town. Rents probably priced them out.  I don't even remember the name of it



Thinking back, I don't think I ever paid more than upper range of $600-something for any of the turquoise squash blossom necklaces (the two I posted one being dark blue, one being more greenish)  I really don't know much about NA jewelry but my gut says they are the real deal; now the one I posted which is modern, with inlay of various stones by the famous NA artist-turned actor (can never remember his name) was much more, but not much over $1200 at Indian Market in NM in about 1989.  I know that was a long time ago, but still!  I thought it was reasonable for such a magnificent piece.


----------



## SWlife

chessmont said:


> Thinking back, I don't think I ever paid more than upper range of $600-something for any of the turquoise squash blossom necklaces (the two I posted one being dark blue, one being more greenish)  I really don't know much about NA jewelry but my gut says they are the real deal; now the one I posted which is modern, with inlay of various stones by the famous NA artist-turned actor (can never remember his name) was much more, but not much over $1200 at Indian Market in NM in about 1989.  I know that was a long time ago, but still!  I thought it was reasonable for such a magnificent piece.



That is reasonable!


----------



## OrbitOrange

Hi guys!  I discovered this thread when another member cross-posted on a NA jewelry forum and I came over here to check it out.  I have to confess I had never heard of TPF before but I was amazed and impressed by the knowledge and collections on this thread and I created an account just so I could contribute.  You guys have some beautiful stuff!  I am an amateur/beginning collector trying to learn everything that I can about NA jewelry.  I favor high quality vintage jewelry, but much of my collection is contemporary because I find that it’s much easier to know exactly what you’re getting, and, let’s face it, it’s much more available.  I wanted to share some of my favorites with you.  Maybe I can even learn some more about my treasures from your expertise!
Here a few of my favorite vintage pieces:

Navajo squash blossom, unknown maker.  The beads are all hand made and hand stamped.  I would love to know how old this one is, I have been told everything from 40’s to 70’s.





Turquoise cluster cuff that I got at Shiprock Santa Fe.  Again, I don’t know the maker or even the exact age of this one.  It is unmarked.  




Zuni sunface ring by Marie Qualo, who was active from the 50’s to the 70’s.  I think this may be my best flea market find; I got it for only $45.  It is unmarked, but definitely her work.  
	

		
			
		

		
	




Alice Quam cluster earrings.  These were a recent splurge--her cluster work is so exquisite.  Jellyv, I am drooling over your AQ and LW collection.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Cyanide Rose said:


> I haven’t seen much turquoise at all in my area. There was a shop I remembered having some amazing pieces, but unfortunately I was a week late. A lady from out west purchased forty-five pieces, which were mostly cuffs and rings. So what was left was pretty picked over, but I did buy a few pieces. I do not know much about turquoise, but I do believe this to be Native American. It’s marked RB, under that Sterling and under that a sideways B.  I found quite a few options for the RB, still not sure which artisan made this ring, but I like the presence it has [emoji4]
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4152335



CR, I realize you posted this almost a year ago, and perhaps by now you have found the maker of your ring.  But if not I was wondering if you may have considered that the RB may be the Running Bear shop hallmark?  They are a manufacturing shop in Gallup NM that employs native artists and have been around for some time.  They make pretty nice stuff, I have two pieces from them.  It is possible that the RB is for Running Bear and that the sideways B is a hallmark for the specific artist.  

It is a beautiful ring and a really nice piece of turquoise.


----------



## Cyanide Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Hi guys!  I discovered this thread when another member cross-posted on a NA jewelry forum and I came over here to check it out.  I have to confess I had never heard of TPF before but I was amazed and impressed by the knowledge and collections on this thread and I created an account just so I could contribute.  You guys have some beautiful stuff!  I am an amateur/beginning collector trying to learn everything that I can about NA jewelry.  I favor high quality vintage jewelry, but much of my collection is contemporary because I find that it’s much easier to know exactly what you’re getting, and, let’s face it, it’s much more available.  I wanted to share some of my favorites with you.  Maybe I can even learn some more about my treasures from your expertise!
> Here a few of my favorite vintage pieces:
> 
> Navajo squash blossom, unknown maker.  The beads are all hand made and hand stamped.  I would love to know how old this one is, I have been told everything from 40’s to 70’s.
> 
> View attachment 4405326
> View attachment 4405327
> 
> 
> Turquoise cluster cuff that I got at Shiprock Santa Fe.  Again, I don’t know the maker or even the exact age of this one.  It is unmarked.
> View attachment 4405330
> 
> 
> 
> Zuni sunface ring by Marie Qualo, who was active from the 50’s to the 70’s.  I think this may be my best flea market find; I got it for only $45.  It is unmarked, but definitely her work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4405332
> 
> 
> Alice Quam cluster earrings.  These were a recent splurge--her cluster work is so exquisite.  Jellyv, I am drooling over your AQ and LW collection.
> View attachment 4405333



All amazing pieces! I love the ring! I had a shop in the area move. It had tons of turquoise but I was two days late and a lady from California purchased 40 pieces. Ugh. I got a couple nice pieces but I know I missed some good one.  

Thanks for the information on my righ. I have had that and Roberta Begay as well. With the B being another Begay family members. I wish I knew for sure [emoji4]

There is a sure I used to frequent and I go there to see TDF pieces, it’s called turquoise people. I have gotten some pretty good help there on my pieces. You may wanna check that out [emoji16]
Sorry for any typos. I can’t see my text on this app.


----------



## SWlife

Cyanide Rose said:


> All amazing pieces! I love the ring! I had a shop in the area move. It had tons of turquoise but I was two days late and a lady from California purchased 40 pieces. Ugh. I got a couple nice pieces but I know I missed some good one.
> 
> Thanks for the information on my righ. I have had that and Roberta Begay as well. With the B being another Begay family members. I wish I knew for sure [emoji4]
> 
> There is a sure I used to frequent and I go there to see TDF pieces, it’s called turquoise people. I have gotten some pretty good help there on my pieces. You may wanna check that out [emoji16]
> Sorry for any typos. I can’t see my text on this app.



I am dying over that squash blossoms necklace!


----------



## SWlife

gacats said:


> I am dying over that squash blossoms necklace!



I meant “blossom “ but couldn’t edit it.


----------



## OrbitOrange

gacats said:


> I meant “blossom “ but couldn’t edit it.


Thank you!  It is one of my favorites for sure.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Hi guys!  I discovered this thread when another member cross-posted on a NA jewelry forum and I came over here to check it out.  I have to confess I had never heard of TPF before but I was amazed and impressed by the knowledge and collections on this thread and I created an account just so I could contribute.  You guys have some beautiful stuff!  I am an amateur/beginning collector trying to learn everything that I can about NA jewelry.  I favor high quality vintage jewelry



Welcome, O! We're glad to have another enthusiast! Your pieces are all top tier, congrats. That squash blossom is excellent, with all the pretty hand stamping and the unusual naja. It's hard to date it, but the quality speaks for itself. How about that stunning oval Blue Gem turquoise!  Also, I always like seeing domed button ends on a naja, a feature that's very old timey.  One indicator of decade could be its weight (a gram scale is a tool of the trade among collectors): lighter pieces are more recent.

The ALICE Q earrings are TDF. As you know, her work is both hard to find and approaching stratospheric pricing, but  she will always be the queen of Zuni cluster work (along with her family members).

Your Shiprock cuff is Zuni, 50s-70 I think. Beautiful shaping of the stones. And the gorgeous M Qualo piece has a superb color palette, along with the very precise craftsmanship. That use of the black border really makes it work.

If you don't mind sharing the site for that NA forum, could you let us know? Or private message me if that seems better. Cheers!


----------



## OrbitOrange

Cyanide Rose said:


> All amazing pieces! I love the ring! I had a shop in the area move. It had tons of turquoise but I was two days late and a lady from California purchased 40 pieces. Ugh. I got a couple nice pieces but I know I missed some good one.
> 
> Thanks for the information on my righ. I have had that and Roberta Begay as well. With the B being another Begay family members. I wish I knew for sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a sure I used to frequent and I go there to see TDF pieces, it’s called turquoise people. I have gotten some pretty good help there on my pieces. You may wanna check that out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for any typos. I can’t see my text on this app.



Yes, I have spent quite a lot of time on Turquoise People and learned a lot there, it is a great resource.  Actually, looking back through old posts I see that you posted this ring there.  Unfortunately RB is a rather common hallmark so it can be so hard to say.  One last idea would be to contact the Running Bear shop--another member of the forum did that recently and it sounds like they were very helpful to her and were able to identify a bracelet that had been made there about 15 years ago.


----------



## jellyv

[Never mind, I was looking at the wrong site: There's one called THE Turquoise People and I was not too impressed with that! WRONG SITE! LOL]

Sorry for any confusion, I was ranting about the wrong site. Carry on.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Welcome, O! We're glad to have another enthusiast! Your pieces are all top tier, congrats. That squash blossom is excellent, with all the pretty hand stamping and the unusual naja. It's hard to date it, but the quality speaks for itself. How about that stunning oval Blue Gem turquoise!  Also, I always like seeing domed button ends on a naja, a feature that's very old timey.  One indicator of decade could be its weight (a gram scale is a tool of the trade among collectors): lighter pieces are more recent.
> 
> The ALICE Q earrings are TDF. As you know, her work is both hard to find and approaching stratospheric pricing, but  she will always be the queen of Zuni cluster work (along with her family members).
> 
> Your Shiprock cuff is Zuni, 50s-70 I think. Beautiful shaping of the stones. And the gorgeous M Qualo piece has a superb color palette, along with the very precise craftsmanship. That use of the black border really makes it work.
> 
> If you don't mind sharing the site for that NA forum, could you let us know? Or private message me if that seems better. Cheers!




Thank you so much for your compliments!  It means a lot coming from someone with such an amazing collection.  The forum I was referring to is Turquoise People, which CR referenced above.  It is run by Perry Null and has been a great resource for me.  

The weight of the squash blossom is 200g.  You think that it is blue gem turquoise?  Although I've studied turquoise quite a bit I am far from being able to identify mines and I have wondered about what this might be.  

The AQ earrings I was fortunate enough to buy off of a dealer who was selling the collection of a woman that had a very extensive and valuable collection and had recently passed away.  He had 50 or so pieces with him that I had a wonderful time looking through but apparently that was just the tip of the iceberg.  He had another pair of AQ earrings that were the smaller circular clusters only which I probably should have snagged too but my pair was already quite the splurge.  He said that she had quite a few AQ peices, including a turquoise cluster belt--I bet that must have been spectacular!  She also had a Loloma bracelet that I didn't get to see but apparently they are having a hard time selling if you know anyone in the market


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Thank you so much for your compliments!  It means a lot coming from someone with such an amazing collection.  The forum I was referring to is Turquoise People, which CR referenced above.  It is run by Perry Null and has been a great resource for me.
> 
> The weight of the squash blossom is 200g.  You think that it is blue gem turquoise?  Although I've studied turquoise quite a bit I am far from being able to identify mines and I have wondered about what this might be.
> She also had a Loloma bracelet that I didn't get to see but apparently they are having a hard time selling if you know anyone in the market



You're nice to admire my stuff. 
200 grams is a very nice weight. Still can't zero in on date exactly. Yes, I think it's Blue Gem, one of the best and one of my favorites.

Oh that collection sounds amazing. About the Loloma: certainly is saleable but needs the right buyer at the high end of course. They might want to consign with Shiprock Santa Fe or another of that caliber,  like Faust Gallery.  Consignment takes a hit but gets it sold; the priciest things have the smallest potential buyer market.


----------



## jellyv

An important article on the massive problem of fakes in the NA jewelry market. This particular group of sellers has been known and discussed since at least the 1960s:
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/native-american-indian-art-fake-forgery-hopi-zuni0/


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> [Never mind, I was looking at the wrong site: There's one called THE Turquoise People and I was not too impressed with that! WRONG SITE! LOL]
> 
> Sorry for any confusion, I was ranting about the wrong site. Carry on.



Ha.  THE Turquoise People seems to have been named to purposely invite confusion with the other site....another red flag for sure.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Ha.  THE Turquoise People seems to have been named to purposely invite confusion with the other site....another red flag for sure.


I've posted questions on P Null myself and gotten very helpful feedback. They positively ID'd my Dan Simplicio pin/pendant, which was a yay (much of his is unmarked).  And have bought from them too.


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> An important article on the massive problem of fakes in the NA jewelry market. This particular group of sellers has been known and discussed since at least the 1960s:
> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/native-american-indian-art-fake-forgery-hopi-zuni0/


I just finished reading the entire article and my head is spinning.  Thank you for posting it, as the biggest take-away for me was the fact that if these imposters ever get convicted and sentenced, the native american people will be negatively affected because those wishing to purchase native american jewelry will be much more aware that counterfeit pieces are still on the market and will be afraid to purchase.


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> the biggest take-away for me was the fact that if these imposters ever get convicted and sentenced, the native american people will be negatively affected because those wishing to purchase native american jewelry will be much more aware that counterfeit pieces are still on the market and will be afraid to purchase.



Some dealers quoted have a vested interest in saying this, but others disagree and believe it will improve confidence in the market. Most importantly,  Native American artisans themselves and all supporters of indigenous arts are impacted economically by this fraud. It was good to see Liz Wallace in there--her work is so fab.

The fakes vs. authentic product situation described here relates to a specific seller cartel, but it's been a factor since souvenirs were first sold in the Southwest. Some in the public don't care (and didn't care in the 1920s either). The law is catching up.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> I just finished reading the entire article and my head is spinning.  Thank you for posting it, as the biggest take-away for me was the fact that if these imposters ever get convicted and sentenced, the native american people will be negatively affected because those wishing to purchase native american jewelry will be much more aware that counterfeit pieces are still on the market and will be afraid to purchase.



This is such an important issue and one that anyone who purchases Native American art or who cares about the well being of Native Americans should be aware of.  I have to respectfully disagree with the opinion that these indictments will ultimately be bad for NA artists.  This has been an open secret for decades and there has already been a serious erosion of trust in the industry.  Why do you think this thread is called "REAL Native American Jewelry"?  The (correct) implication is that there are tons of fakes.  I believe that customers will ultimately be less reluctant to buy if they feel the government is enforcing the Indian Arts and Crafts Act appropriately.  Not to mention that the fakes undercut the market.

This is a great article from Nat Geo but it is about a year old.  Since then Ali has been sentenced to 6m in prison (the US attorney recommended 18m) and fined about $9,000.  A co-defendent got 2 days in jail and a $500 fine.  To me these sentencings just seem like slaps on the wrist.  The Aysheh brothers, who run one of the two main manufacturing and wholesale schemes, were charged in 2017 but their hearings have been continually postponed and have not occurred yet.  The family which runs the other scheme has not been charged yet.  We will have to keep following to see what happens but I would like to see these people really held accountable for their crimes.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Here are a few from one of my favorite contemporary artists, Joseph D. Coriz.  For some reason I am really drawn to his distinctive and unique overlay work.  It is almost Hopi in style but he is from the Santa Domingo pueblo.  I bought the pendant, which is reversible, from him at Indian Market a few years ago.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Here are a few from one of my favorite contemporary artists, Joseph D. Coriz.  For some reason I am really drawn to his distinctive and unique overlay work.  It is almost Hopi in style but he is from the Santa Domingo pueblo.



That is beautiful, precise overlay work. Wow. Not familiar with him, must keep an eye out. I'm a fan of excellent overlay. I should share a couple of bracelets by Steven J. Begay, an amazing Navajo overlay smith heavily collected in Japan. Steven is more abstract and uses peyote religion motifs, unusual. Someday I plan to add a bracelet by the great Victor Coochtewya (Hopi), who I think pioneered the pueblo scenes as a design idea.

Your pendant is fab! Love the corn!


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Hi guys!  I discovered this thread when another member cross-posted on a NA jewelry forum and I came over here to check it out.  I have to confess I had never heard of TPF before but I was amazed and impressed by the knowledge and collections on this thread and I created an account just so I could contribute.  You guys have some beautiful stuff!  I am an amateur/beginning collector trying to learn everything that I can about NA jewelry.  I favor high quality vintage jewelry, but much of my collection is contemporary because I find that it’s much easier to know exactly what you’re getting, and, let’s face it, it’s much more available.  I wanted to share some of my favorites with you.  Maybe I can even learn some more about my treasures from your expertise!
> Here a few of my favorite vintage pieces:
> 
> Navajo squash blossom, unknown maker.  The beads are all hand made and hand stamped.  I would love to know how old this one is, I have been told everything from 40’s to 70’s.
> 
> View attachment 4405326
> View attachment 4405327
> 
> 
> Turquoise cluster cuff that I got at Shiprock Santa Fe.  Again, I don’t know the maker or even the exact age of this one.  It is unmarked.
> View attachment 4405330
> 
> 
> 
> Zuni sunface ring by Marie Qualo, who was active from the 50’s to the 70’s.  I think this may be my best flea market find; I got it for only $45.  It is unmarked, but definitely her work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4405332
> 
> 
> Alice Quam cluster earrings.  These were a recent splurge--her cluster work is so exquisite.  Jellyv, I am drooling over your AQ and LW collection.
> View attachment 4405333




Hi *OrbitOrange*! So glad you made it over here to TPF! Love your A. Quam earrings (even more awesome when you it modeled at TurqPeople site!) 

You're killing me here...........I am itching to buy something! Looks like the best way to really get a feel for the pieces is to make a trip to New Mexico and actually touch and feel them. I have been trolling Ebay trying to train my eye on styles, stones, etc. but can't pull the trigger because I'm so new to this that I'm not sure what I'm doing. Keep on posting as I'm learning so much here and at the TurqPeople site.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> That is beautiful, precise overlay work. Wow. Not familiar with him, must keep an eye out. I'm a fan of excellent overlay. I should share a couple of bracelets by Steven J. Begay, an amazing Navajo overlay smith heavily collected in Japan. Steven is more abstract and uses peyote religion motifs, unusual. Someday I plan to add a bracelet by the great Victor Coochtewya (Hopi), who I think pioneered the pueblo scenes as a design idea.
> 
> Your pendant is fab! Love the corn!



Thanks!  I would love to see your Steven J. Begay bracelets.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> I subscribe to Cowboys & Indians magazine.  There are always the most mouth-watering ads in there for beautiful native american jewelry from some of the most exquisite galleries around the southwestern part of the country.  Also, they sometimes feature reconstructed LV bags that have conchos and fringe and beautiful leather embellishments that just make my head spin.  It is my favorite magazine that is just littering my coffee table at the moment.  You will see yourselves in those pages.....




OOH aah! I just found their on-line site. serious eye candy. THis must be the Vuitton bag you saw...must be a limited edition. I don't think I could pull  off the one with the raccoon(?) tail  but I kinda love it!


credit: cowboysindians.com


----------



## Cyanide Rose

essiedub said:


> OOH aah! I just found their on-line site. serious eye candy. THis must be the Vuitton bag you saw...must be a limited edition. I don't think I could pull  off the one with the raccoon(?) tail  but I kinda love it!
> View attachment 4406597
> 
> credit: cowboysindians.com



I would totally rock that with some converse camel 70XXHI’s [emoji16]


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Hi *OrbitOrange*! So glad you made it over here to TPF! Love your A. Quam earrings (even more awesome when you it modeled at TurqPeople site!)
> 
> You're killing me here...........I am itching to buy something! Looks like the best way to really get a feel for the pieces is to make a trip to New Mexico and actually touch and feel them. I have been trolling Ebay trying to train my eye on styles, stones, etc. but can't pull the trigger because I'm so new to this that I'm not sure what I'm doing. Keep on posting as I'm learning so much here and at the TurqPeople site.



I can't wait to see what you end up with!  It's definitely great to get to the Southwest if you can to see and handle as much jewelry as possible.  And the most fun.  But good stuff can be found all over the country and online too.  Good luck and keep us updated!


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> OOH aah! I just found their on-line site. serious eye candy. THis must be the Vuitton bag you saw...must be a limited edition. I don't think I could pull  off the one with the raccoon(?) tail  but I kinda love it!
> View attachment 4406597
> 
> credit: cowboysindians.com


I'll have to dip into my archives...these are not the ones I saw, but when I find the ad, I will post.  I think they are teriffic!!


----------



## BigPurseSue

I've gotten some wonderful NA pieces on ebay especially vintage. But you have to be careful because there are so many fakes out there. I once spotted a beautiful supposedly Zuni necklace that the seller described as "unmarked but probably silver" and "old pawn." Thing was he was in a state like Ohio or PA where one wouldn't be apt to find old pawn. Plus he had dozens of similar necklaces and bracelets for sale. And, looking back at his sales--this was in the days when ebay allowed one to see a seller's prior listings and sales from the past year, a very handy thing--he had sold at least a half-dozen necklaces identical to that supposedly Zuni one. 

Zuni needlepoint is a style often faked by Indonesian jewelry factories. 

So one does need to be careful and look at the other items a seller is listing. But there are treasures to be found. 

Sellers who are selling items from Florida estates often have some nice pieces. 

I've also spotted some lovely vintage bolo ties which sellers are trying to unload cheap because men's bolo ties aren't in fashion. But they can look striking as women in this thread have shown.


----------



## BigPurseSue

jellyv said:


> An important article on the massive problem of fakes in the NA jewelry market. This particular group of sellers has been known and discussed since at least the 1960s:
> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/native-american-indian-art-fake-forgery-hopi-zuni0/



Wow. I had no idea. I've often seen fake Zuni jewelry on ebay but had no idea how it was getting into the country. This is so tragic.


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> An important article on the massive problem of fakes in the NA jewelry market. This particular group of sellers has been known and discussed since at least the 1960s:
> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/native-american-indian-art-fake-forgery-hopi-zuni0/


that is a shame
It's one thing to buy cheap fakes at a roadside stand.  another thing to have them mingled in with fine pieces in Santa Fe shops.
If I want something cute and cheap I can get some silver earrings at TJ Maxx.  But if I'm spending substantial money, I don't want some knockoff from overseas
and of course, it's hurting the artisans who make the real stuff


----------



## jellyv

BigPurseSue said:


> I once spotted a beautiful supposedly Zuni necklace that the seller described as "unmarked but probably silver" and "old pawn." Thing was he was in a state like Ohio or PA where one wouldn't be apt to find old pawn.



It's not the Ohio or PA part  that's the problem for finding great authentic NA jewelry. On the contrary: important to keep in mind that Southwest goods are widely dispersed because of the souvenir trade. Visitors from all over the East and Midwest (and elsewhere) returned home with their jewelry buys and other goodies. In my experience the very best picking can be done far from the Four Corners--few know or recognize the good stuff. Lucky for me, repeatedly! My best scores, of really rare and special things, have been at shows and shops in locations not known for Indian material. The problem in  your anecdote was, he was a no-good deceiving seller.


----------



## Compass Rose

We are making a trip out West very soon.  I think I am going to need therapy for that one.


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> We are making a trip out West very soon.  I think I am going to need therapy for that one.


RETAIL therapy, yes!!


----------



## Compass Rose

This is what I mentioned a few posts back.  Not native...but OMG....I want!  Courtesy of Cowboys & Indians magazine...Feb/March 2019 issue.


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> We are making a trip out West very soon.  I think I am going to need therapy for that one.


AZ or New Mexico?


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> This is what I mentioned a few posts back.  Not native...but OMG....I want!  Courtesy of Cowboys & Indians magazine...Feb/March 2019 issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4410240



Oooh me likey! The most wearable one, at least for me is the neverfull adaptation! Based on area code, looks  like this is out of San Luis Obispo or Santa Barbara county, where I’m headed mid May for Tour of CA bike race..will need to go check them out! So cool. Thanks for posting! What a neat magazine!


----------



## Compass Rose

sdkitty said:


> AZ or New Mexico?


Phoenix and Sedona.[emoji4]


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> Oooh me likey! The most wearable one, at least for me is the neverfull adaptation! Based on area code, looks  like this is out of San Luis Obispo or Santa Barbara county, where I’m headed mid May for Tour of CA bike race..will need to go check them out! So cool. Thanks for posting! What a neat magazine!


I used to subscribe to Phoenix Home & Garden for over 20 years.
But like anything else, their publication got smaller and leaned too contemporary for my personal taste.  Now I am hooked on C&I.  They have such gorgeous articles and ads for Native American pieces.[emoji4]


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> Phoenix and Sedona.[emoji4]


well if you're going to Sedona and looking for jewelry I'd strongly suggest you look in Sedona and then before buying, drive to Prescott and go to Oggs Hogan.  It's close - maybe an hour drive.


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> well if you're going to Sedona and looking for jewelry I'd strongly suggest you look in Sedona and then before buying, drive to Prescott and go to Oggs Hogan.  It's close - maybe an hour drive.



Prescott is midpoint driving between PHX and Sedona.

In Sedona, Garland's and Hoel's, but also there's an incredible shop of only Hopi jewelry on the second floor of the building with Garland's Rugs. Kopavi:
http://www.kopaviinternational.com/

Note that Garland's Jewelry shop, which has much more jewelry than Garland's Rugs has, is located elsewhere, in Oak Creek Canyon just outside downtown Sedona.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> I used to subscribe to Phoenix Home & Garden for over 20 years.
> But like anything else, their publication got smaller and leaned too contemporary for my personal taste.  Now I am hooked on C&I.  They have such gorgeous articles and ads for Native American pieces.[emoji4]


I’m going to subscribe! Going to do my part to keep print alive. Cheers to my new Native American jewelry “education”  and my love for the Southwest! It will be a great addition to the usual fashion and home magazines that I get.


----------



## Compass Rose

Thank you all for the tips!  Hubby really appreciates it, too![emoji41]


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> Thank you all for the tips!  Hubby really appreciates it, too![emoji41]


If you go to Oggs Hogan and Jeff is there (sometimes he isn't and there are women selling), he always wears a beautiful turquoise row bracelet.  I'd like to have that one.


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> I’m going to subscribe! Going to do my part to keep print alive. Cheers to my new Native American jewelry “education”  and my love for the Southwest! It will be a great addition to the usual fashion and home magazines that I get.


I would loan you my issues, but there is drool on many of the pages.  It is a great magazine.....you will love it.


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> If you go to Oggs Hogan and Jeff is there (sometimes he isn't and there are women selling), he always wears a beautiful turquoise row bracelet.  I'd like to have that one.


Have you asked him?  I've bought pieces off of salesfolks elsewhere, who often are just modeling the store wares: but Jeff is probably really wearing his own collection.

Jeff is also great to trade with, fair and honest in trade as well as selling.


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> Have you asked him?  I've bought pieces off of salesfolks elsewhere, who often are just modeling the store wares: but Jeff is probably really wearing his own collection.
> 
> Jeff is also great to trade with, fair and honest in trade as well as selling.


I think I did ask him.  That one bracelet is his personal property and not for sale.
Yes, I like him.  Much prefer to deal with him rather than an employee when I can.  I've bought items from the women but my major deals were with him. 

The only trading I've done was one time something I bought from him that didn't work out.


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> I think I did ask him.  That one bracelet is his personal property and not for sale.
> The only trading I've done was one time something I bought from him that didn't work out.


I've only traded one bracelet, but he was so easy to work with and gave me a super fair offer price.  It helped that I was also buying a Lorraine Waatsa bracelet from him at the time.


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> I've only traded one bracelet, but he was so easy to work with and gave me a super fair offer price.  It helped that I was also buying a Lorraine Waatsa bracelet from him at the time.


you're more up on this than I am.  Don't know Lorraine Waatsa's work.  Two names I have are Thomas Curtis and his daughter Jennifer  
and some earrings made by a well known couple from Prescott whose name I've forgotten


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> you're more up on this than I am.  Don't know Lorraine Waatsa's work.  Two names I have are Thomas Curtis and his daughter Jennifer
> and some earrings made by a well known couple from Prescott whose name I've forgotten


Yes we've shared about the Curtises. I have bracelets by them both, inc. a major cuff by Jennifer.   I've always thought she was great, but she's really coming into her prime as a maker right now. Interestingly, she also partners with her husband, a leather artisan, making small shoulder bags of leather with her silver pieces as decoration.

I think I"ve posted my Lorraine W material on this thread. She's the daughter of Alice Quam, granddaughter of the Ondelacy family. Let's see if I can locate.

Here's my Lorraine things, with Alice's cuff (posts 377, 383):
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-26#post-32491889


and this is what I purchased from Jeff (post 397):
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-27#post-32518734


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> Yes we've shared about the Curtises. I have bracelets by them both, inc. a major cuff by Jennifer.   I've always thought she was great, but she's really coming into her prime as a maker right now. Interestingly, she also partners with her husband, a leather artisan, making small shoulder bags of leather with her silver pieces as decoration.
> 
> I think I"ve posted my Lorraine W material on this thread. She's the daughter of Alice Quam, granddaughter of the Ondelacy family. Let's see if I can locate.
> 
> Here's my Lorraine things, with Alice's cuff (posts 377, 383):
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-26#post-32491889
> 
> 
> and this is what I purchased from Jeff (post 397):
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-27#post-32518734


nice!
you have some major pieces


----------



## chessmont

jellyv said:


> Yes we've shared about the Curtises. I have bracelets by them both, inc. a major cuff by Jennifer.   I've always thought she was great, but she's really coming into her prime as a maker right now. Interestingly, she also partners with her husband, a leather artisan, making small shoulder bags of leather with her silver pieces as decoration.
> 
> I think I"ve posted my Lorraine W material on this thread. She's the daughter of Alice Quam, granddaughter of the Ondelacy family. Let's see if I can locate.
> 
> Here's my Lorraine things, with Alice's cuff (posts 377, 383):
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-26#post-32491889
> 
> 
> and this is what I purchased from Jeff (post 397):
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-27#post-32518734



OH MY GOD.  Spectacular!


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv......no words for describing those beautiful major pieces...


----------



## jellyv

Thanks, gals. I love the artistry of fine Zuni clusterwork and hope to one day get a cuff by the elders of this talented family, the Ondelacys.  You have Fannie O, and Warren and Doris O. If you google their work your eyes will pop. 

I was lucky to discover Alice Quam early, when pricing was still tolerable (lol). It was on our first visit to Garland's Jewelry in Sedona, and the saleswoman was sporting a honking big coral cluster bracelet by Alice. I was blown away and soon made it a mission to find one like it.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Thanks, gals. I love the artistry of fine Zuni clusterwork and hope to one day get a cuff by the elders of this talented family, the Ondelacys.  You have Fannie O, and Warren and Doris O. If you google their work your eyes will pop.
> 
> I was lucky to discover Alice Quam early, when pricing was still tolerable (lol). It was on our first visit to Garland's Jewelry in Sedona, and the saleswoman was sporting a honking big coral cluster bracelet by Alice. I was blown away and soon made it a mission to find one like it.



I just love all of these.  Would you be willing to post a picture of the coral AQ cuff on your wrist so that we could get some perspective of the size and how it looks on?  

Here is a Lorraine Waatsa cuff in Carico Lake turquoise that I tried on in a store.  Gorgeous stones and cluster work!  

Since I'm relatively new at this I've only been following their work for about a year to a year and a half now, and the AQ earring I posted are the only peice I have.  I'm dying to add more to the collection though!  

I found this cuff online which looks  similar to yours:
https://www.brownstrading.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=JJBAQB1

Since I've never seen an AQ coral cuff of this magnitude come up before I have no idea what to think of the pricing, and I was wondering if you could weigh in on what you think of it.  You could DM me if that would be preferable.  It's actually not quite as bad as I would have expected.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I just love all of these.  Would you be willing to post a picture of the coral AQ cuff on your wrist so that we could get some perspective of the size and how it looks on?
> 
> Here is a Lorraine Waatsa cuff in Carico Lake turquoise that I tried on in a store.  Gorgeous stones and cluster work!
> 
> Since I've never seen an AQ coral cuff of this magnitude come up before I have no idea what to think of the pricing, and I was wondering if you could weigh in on what you think of it.



That Lorraine bracelet you showed is (I think) the same size and scale of both my Lorraine and Alice cuffs. They basically have/had one large bracelet style, and that's it; there are also smaller-scale bracelets done in both turq and coral clusterwork. I'll take pics of mine and add.

About the Brown's Alice cuff, what I can say is that it's a high market price. Meaning, it's what the market will bear but also a stiff price, with the knowledge that it's sellable. But I do think it's been hanging around on that website a while, so perhaps they'd negotiate some.  For reference,  a friend bought a big coral AQ cuff like this one probably 8 or so years ago, at which time the market price was $2500.
The cutoff of pricing seems to be when Alice passed away--predictably, prices went up. I acquired mine way earlier.


----------



## jellyv

Ok pics of mother and daughter bracelets, Alice and Lorraine. Turns out that my Alice cuff is slightly larger than the Lorraine one. Alice measure 2 5/8"H  main cluster, Lorraine is 2 1/2" H. You can see minor differences between these two, mainly that the Alice piece is more oval and Lorraine is rounder. Hope you enjoy this bombardment!


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> That Lorraine bracelet you showed is (I think) the same size and scale of both my Lorraine and Alice cuffs. They basically have/had one large bracelet style, and that's it; there are also smaller-scale bracelets done in both turq and coral clusterwork. I'll take pics of mine and add.
> 
> About the Brown's Alice cuff, what I can say is that it's a high market price. Meaning, it's what the market will bear but also a stiff price, with the knowledge that it's sellable. But I do think it's been hanging around on that website a while, so perhaps they'd negotiate some.  For reference,  a friend bought a big coral AQ cuff like this one probably 8 or so years ago, at which time the market price was $2500.
> The cutoff of pricing seems to be when Alice passed away--predictably, prices went up.





jellyv said:


> Ok pics of mother and daughter bracelets, Alice and Lorraine. Turns out that my Alice cuff is slightly larger than the Lorraine one. Alice measure 2 5/8"H  main cluster, Lorraine is 2 1/2" H. You can see minor differences between these two, mainly that the Alice piece is more oval and Lorraine is rounder. Hope you enjoy this bombardment!
> View attachment 4411161
> View attachment 4411162
> View attachment 4411163
> View attachment 4411164





jellyv said:


> Ok pics of mother and daughter bracelets, Alice and Lorraine. Turns out that my Alice cuff is slightly larger than the Lorraine one. Alice measure 2 5/8"H  main cluster, Lorraine is 2 1/2" H. You can see minor differences between these two, mainly that the Alice piece is more oval and Lorraine is rounder. Hope you enjoy this bombardment!
> View attachment 4411161
> View attachment 4411162
> View attachment 4411163
> View attachment 4411164



I love it!  Even though the size difference is subtle I think think it is noticeable, especially in the pictures on your wrist.

Here's another Lorraine cuff I've been watching online.  It is not identified as her on the listing but I'm pretty sure it is her.  It's slightly smaller and subtler than yours with the center stone being round, not oval.  I think it actually might work a little better for me, and would look fantastic with my Alice earrings.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/589055352/vintage-turquoise-cluster-sterling?ref=user_profile&frs=1


----------



## cdtracing

Jellyv, you are so fortunate to have these fabulous pieces in your collection!  Truly spectacular artistry & workmanship!!!


----------



## OrbitOrange

cdtracing said:


> Jellyv, you are so fortunate to have these fabulous pieces in your collection!  Truly spectacular artistry & workmanship!!!




CDT I am in love with your 3 row rectangular turquoise cuff bracelet.


----------



## cdtracing

OrbitOrange said:


> CDT I am in love with your 3 row rectangular turquoise cuff bracelet.


Thank you.  It's one of my favorites. It's a Fred Harvey piece from the 40's .


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Here's another Lorraine cuff I've been watching online.  It is not identified as her on the listing but I'm pretty sure it is her.  It's slightly smaller and subtler than yours with the center stone being round, not oval.  I think it actually might work a little better for me, and would look fantastic with my Alice earrings.
> 
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/589055352/vintage-turquoise-cluster-sterling?ref=user_profile&frs=1



If you like the scale, why not? It could be Lorraine if the initials don't have periods after them, which the bar across kind of makes unclear. Interestingly, that dealer does offer an identified LW bracelet, which makes me wonder if this listing is simply missing that info by a faulty edit, or if she was unsure. This one:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/663156...uery=lorraine+waatsa&ref=sr_gallery-1-2&frs=1

By the way, I've seen this dealer's listings on eBay and they seem knowledgeable, so you could always ask their thoughts on the artist. 

Thanks again, and also to cdt.


----------



## Compass Rose

Here is a Lorraine Waatsa cuff in Carico Lake turquoise that I tried on in a store.  Gorgeous stones and cluster work!

Stunning!  Absolutely stunning!![/QUOTE]


----------



## sgj99

Wow!  You ladies have some truly spectacular cuffs!!!!


----------



## jellyv

And now for something completely different: let"s talk vintage pins. Let me share my two favorite all-silver pins, plus a Zuni turquoise cluster I love. These are all really big--the US quarter is in there for scale.  Butterfly is Navajo or possibly Hopi; Knifewing (figural) is by the famed early Zuni smith Horace Iule.
	

		
			
		

		
	





	

		
			
		

		
	
.


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> And now for something completely different: let"s talk vintage pins. Let me share my two favorite all-silver pins, plus a Zuni turquoise cluster I love. These are all really big--the US quarter is in there for scale.  Butterfly is Navajo or possibly Hopi; Knifewing (figural) is by the famed early Zuni smith Horace Iule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4412060
> View attachment 4412061
> View attachment 4412062
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I love all of these!  Thank you for sharing!  I have one Zuni thunderbird pin that my grandmother gave me when I was ten.....many, many years ago.  It is not spectacular, but I still have it and sometimes I attach it to a purse strap for fun.  Yours, however, are over the top gorgeous!


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> I love all of these!  Thank you for sharing!  I have one Zuni thunderbird pin that my grandmother gave me when I was ten.....many, many years ago.


Thanks--and please do post it, don't wanna be the thread hog!  Everybody jump in!


----------



## Compass Rose

Hahaha.....I can never get enough eye candy!  I ran to my jewelry box to get it.  You have seen this a zillion times but I still have it and I can't bring myself to tell you how long I have had this.  Not signed, either....but it is my one and only pin.[emoji4]


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> Hahaha.....I can never get enough eye candy!  I ran to my jewelry box to get it.


That's a sweet one. It's amazing how many variations there are on this design, all special in their way. What a pretty arrangement of inlay colors. I'm a sucker for the strong use of black in Zuni inlay, as in yours, partly because you see that in the older pieces, ca. 1930s-1940s (later pieces also have black).


----------



## Cyanide Rose

jellyv said:


> And now for something completely me share my twoButterfly is Navajo or possibly Hopi; Knifewing (figural) is by the famed early Zuni smith Horace Iule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4412060
> View attachment 4412061
> View attachment 4412062
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> .





Compass Rose said:


> I love all of these!  Thank I attach it to a purse strap for fun.  Yours, however, are over the top gorgeous!



Beautiful pins! I love pins, I never wear them though, but it’s truly amazing how a pin can really set off an outfit. I love to see them on others. I’m not good with determining age, so I’m not sure if the few I have are truly vintage but I did try to put it on a chain once, it didn’t work well [emoji4]

I’m loving all the amazing turquoise posted, WOW!!


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> And now for something completely different: let"s talk vintage pins. Let me share my two favorite all-silver pins, plus a Zuni turquoise cluster I love. These are all really big--the US quarter is in there for scale.  Butterfly is Navajo or possibly Hopi; Knifewing (figural) is by the famed early Zuni smith Horace Iule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4412060
> View attachment 4412061
> View attachment 4412062
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Wow, your timing is impeccable.  I'm literally sitting here reading Paula Baxter's Southwest Silver Jewelry and decided to take a break and check my e-mail.  Literally 5 minutes ago I read about Horace Iule--how he experimented with casting in the 1910's and is credited with creating the first silver knifewing figure by the late 20's.  That one is so cool, especially knowing it's historical importance.  And I am always a huge sucker for good Zuni cluster work.  I'm having so much fun seeing all your stuff.  

I don't really have pins because I find them hard to wear.  I only have one actually that I got at an antique market.  It's unmarked and I don't know anything about it, including even if it's real.  There's nothing for scale in this picture but it's about 2 inches high.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> .  I'm literally sitting here reading Paula Baxter's Southwest Silver Jewelry
> I'm having so much fun seeing all your stuff.
> 
> I don't really have pins because I find them hard to wear.  I only have one actually that I got at an antique market.  It's unmarked and I don't know anything about it, including even if it's real.  There's nothing for scale in this picture but it's about 2 inches high.
> ]



Thanks, glad to have friends to share this somewhat esoteric interest with! Paula Baxter's books are indispensable. Check out the one dedicated to just bracelets--luscious pics.

Your pin is real and very cute. It's supposed to be a Yei figure. They were made in the Fred Harvey era and also more recently by a female Navajo smith, Francis Jones.

I don't wear pins much either because I'm scared of them falling off, so I generally search out ones with ultra secure latch closures and then leave it in place on a jean jacket or other blazer type jacket. The butterfly and the knifewing will go back on my spring/summer jackets and live there.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Thanks, glad to have friends to share this somewhat esoteric interest with! Paula Baxter's books are indispensable. Check out the one dedicated to just bracelets--luscious pics.
> 
> Your pin is real and very cute. It's supposed to be a Yei figure. They were made in the Fred Harvey era and also more recently by a female Navajo smith, Francis Jones.
> 
> I don't wear pins much either because I'm scared of them falling off, so I generally search out ones with ultra secure latch closures and then leave it in place on a jean jacket or other blazer type jacket. The butterfly and the knifewing will go back on my spring/summer jackets and live there.



I plan on getting the bracelet book and ring book by Paula Baxter after I finish with this one.  Thanks for reassuring me that my pin is real.  I looked up Francis Jones and she does have some Yei pins that look pretty similar to mine.  Hers all seem to be hallmarked though so I suppose mine is another maker.  I doubt it's as old as Fred Harvey era.  I really like some of her track designs too--they remind me of Johnny Mike Begay.


----------



## Cyanide Rose

Hi again [emoji4] I wanted to ask if anyone may be familiar with this artist. It was purchased in Arizona about 25 years ago, with the turquoise mix style cuff that I wear. I haven’t really been able to find any information on it or anything like it. Thanks so much [emoji5]


----------



## Cyanide Rose

A close up of the tag. Thanks again


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I really like some of her track designs too--they remind me of Johnny Mike Begay.



Yes, that track style is modernist Navajo, a whole different branch of output that I also enjoy. There's a Navajo maker who makes affordable, high-quality track bracelets, Tom Hawk.


----------



## jellyv

Cyanide Rose said:


> A close up of the tag. Thanks again


I don't see anything NA about this bracelet's manufacture. It's likely imported, or possibly Mexican, but I wouldn't count on it being reservation or pueblo made.  Is it tarnished sterling, or a base metal?


----------



## Cyanide Rose

It is sterling with some other metal used in spots, brass (swirl)  and copper (figures) maybe? I don’t remember what was said about the piece back then, but I thought I’d ask here. I did ask on turquoise people and they suggested a maker, it’s been a while, I’ll have to look back and see who is was. Thanks [emoji4]


----------



## jellyv

Cyanide Rose said:


> It is sterling with some other metal used in spots, brass (swirl)  and copper (figures) maybe? I don’t remember what was said about the piece back then, but I thought I’d ask here. I did ask on turquoise people and they suggested a maker, it’s been a while, I’ll have to look back and see who is was. ]



Yes, please update if you find out the maker. It's a fun piece!


----------



## OrbitOrange

Jellyv, can I ask you a few general questions?  

How do you feel about making minor adjustments to NA jewelry to make it wearable to its owner?  I have a few rings that I have had to get resized and I currently have a pair of vintage screw back earrings that I want to convert to posts.  I know that NA jewelry can be difficult to work with, mainly because the turquoise and other stones and shells commonly used are fragile and often porous, and will break and crack and change color with heat.  Likewise silver can loose its oxidation with heat.  I have a guy who does a very nice job for me and I have had him resize a few rings and do other minor things.  He has gone as far as take stones out and reset them to protect them from heat or create a heat sink out of wet sand.  And I've been given the name of a place in Albuquerque to ship to that is supposed to do very good work.  But how much does it devalue jewelry that is either vintage or by a collectable contemporary maker to have it altered by somebody else?  Is this something you do or try to avoid?

Also, when did NA jewelers start making bench beads (machine made or machine assisted beads)?  I'm still perfecting the skill of telling handmade from bench beads--usually I can tell but other times I am not quite sure.  I assume there is a date prior to which they were all handmade but I haven't been able to nail down quite when that was.  

Lastly, when you want to sell or trade pieces to upgrade your collection, what do you recommend as the best way to go about that?  Obviously I could sell on ebay or etsy, but as a relatively small scale collector I wouldn't be posting items for sale often.  I imagine potential buyers might be wary of a seller with zero or one sales, one listing at a time, and no feedback.  Another option would be selling to dealer, but then you take a hit on price.  And the other option I can think of would be to try to trade with a dealer.  I imagine this could potentially give you a good price, especially if you are trading up to purchase something from them, but they may or may not want the item you are looking to trade.  Anyway, I was just wondering how other collectors usually go about this.  

Thanks as always for sharing your wealth of knowledge!


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Wow, your timing is impeccable.  I'm literally sitting here reading Paula Baxter's Southwest Silver Jewelry and decided to take a break and check my e-mail.  Literally 5 minutes ago I read about Horace Iule--how he experimented with casting in the 1910's and is credited with creating the first silver knifewing figure by the late 20's.  That one is so cool, especially knowing it's historical importance.  And I am always a huge sucker for good Zuni cluster work.  I'm having so much fun seeing all your stuff.
> 
> I don't really have pins because I find them hard to wear.  I only have one actually that I got at an antique market.  It's unmarked and I don't know anything about it, including even if it's real.  There's nothing for scale in this picture but it's about 2 inches high.
> 
> View attachment 4412186


That is adorable! so whimsical


----------



## essiedub

Cyanide Rose said:


> A close up of the tag. Thanks again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4412220


It’s  so cute that the “tag man” looks like a cutout from the “shadow” man in the links; well except they’ve got one arm raised.  Still cute! I like the red stone on the mom. Do you think those stones are jade?


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Jellyv, can I ask you a few general questions?
> 
> How do you feel about making minor adjustments to NA jewelry to make it wearable to its owner?
> 
> Also, when did NA jewelers start making bench beads (machine made or machine assisted beads)?
> 
> Lastly, when you want to sell or trade pieces to upgrade your collection, what do you recommend as the best way to go about that?
> 
> Thanks as always for sharing your wealth of knowledge!


Glad to offer some thoughts. About repair, yes it's totally kosher to have something adjusted so it's secure and wearable. Sensitive and well-executed repair will not hurt the value. There are top-tier dealers who themselves offer repair services right on their sites and even say, in listings for rings, "can be resized." An example of this is Turkey Mountain Traders. I first learned about how common the practice of repair is when buying from a favorite of mine, Four Winds Gallery in Pittsburgh. They were kind enough to share with me the contact of the guy who did repairs for them of high-end material.  That was an insight into the field, namely, things that are good quality get preserved and even a bit modified by the time you find it for sale.

The most recent good thing I bought was a pair of early Dishta earrings, made by Virgil or Frank himself and not "in the style of" Dishta. They were built in a way that parts of it hung freely, and one day they fell off the post, fortunately in the house. The reputable dealer who'd sold them to me took them back and sent them out to her repair person, who used laser soldering to close up the loop that held the bits that had fallen off. Laser soldering is the state of the art for doing very delicate work, and it can be expensive (in my case it was complimentary).

Bench beads: My understanding of that term has always been that they're made on a bench (that is, a crafting table) by a craftsman, often but not necessarily from previously machined parts. Here's a credible explanation:


And another:
https://www.horsekeeping.com/jewelry/info/navajo-pearls.htm

Traders and dealers have supplied silver parts to Navajo craftspeople  (bezels as one example) since at least the 1920s. If you want to determine whether an old set of beads is entirely machine made vs. handmade, I'd look at the shape of the holes and the materials.  Handmade beads' holes will look irregular vs. perfectly round.  And very old coin silver or ingot is most likely to be hand forged; I would think only sterling sheet silver would lend itself to  machine fabrication.

Selling and upgrading: mostly you have to sell on your own if it's middle-tier material. The big dealers will only entertain your trading in if it's really special and easily resellable. The problem is that there's a giant amount of NA jewelry out there, of which only a small amount is highly desirable to a dealer.   You can always take things to an antiques show that you know has jewelry dealers and see what you can do. If you have excellent things, though, you can get lucky with the right dealer. Caveat: A dealer is going to give you about 1/3- 1/2 of the retail value they'll charge, in most cases, unless they're especially kind on pricing.  So you have to know what that number could be, or the dollar amount you're happy to achieve. I do flip things successfully, always have, but it takes a learning curve.
Hope this helps.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Glad to offer some thoughts. About repair, yes it's totally kosher to have something adjusted so it's secure and wearable. Sensitive and well-executed repair will not hurt the value. There are top-tier dealers who themselves offer repair services right on their sites and even say, in listings for rings, "can be resized." An example of this is Turkey Mountain Traders. I first learned about how common the practice of repair is when buying from a favorite of mine, Four Winds Gallery in Pittsburgh. They were kind enough to share with me the contact of the guy who did repairs for them of high-end material.  That was an insight into the field, namely, things that are good quality get preserved and even a bit modified by the time you find it for sale.
> 
> The most recent good thing I bought was a pair of early Dishta earrings, made by Virgil or Frank himself and not "in the style of" Dishta. They were built in a way that parts of it hung freely, and one day they fell off the post, fortunately in the house. The reputable dealer who'd sold them to me took them back and sent them out to her repair person, who used laser soldering to close up the loop that held the bits that had fallen off. Laser soldering is the state of the art for doing very delicate work, and it can be expensive (in my case it was complimentary).
> 
> Bench beads: My understanding of that term has always been that they're made on a bench (that is, a crafting table) by a craftsman, often but not necessarily from previously machined parts. Here's a credible explanation:
> 
> 
> And another:
> https://www.horsekeeping.com/jewelry/info/navajo-pearls.htm
> 
> Traders and dealers have supplied silver parts to Navajo craftspeople  (bezels as one example) since at least the 1920s. If you want to determine whether an old set of beads is entirely machine made vs. handmade, I'd look at the shape of the holes and the materials.  Handmade beads' holes will look irregular vs. perfectly round.  And very old coin silver or ingot is most likely to be hand forged; I would think only sterling sheet silver would lend itself to  machine fabrication.
> 
> Selling and upgrading: mostly you have to sell on your own if it's middle-tier material. The big dealers will only entertain your trading in if it's really special and easily resellable. The problem is that there's a giant amount of NA jewelry out there, of which only a small amount is highly desirable to a dealer.   You can always take things to an antiques show that you know has jewelry dealers and see what you can do. If you have excellent things, though, you can get lucky with the right dealer. Caveat: A dealer is going to give you about 1/3- 1/2 of the retail value they'll charge, in most cases, unless they're especially kind on pricing.  So you have to know what that number could be, or the dollar amount you're happy to achieve. I do flip things successfully, always have, but it takes a learning curve.
> Hope this helps.




Thank you for your reply.  I guess I'm still a little confused about the handmade vs. bench made vs. machine made beads.  The video and the Horsekeeping website actually seem a little contradictory to me.  The video is labelled "Navajo Handmade Sterling Silver Beads," and he described a process that sounds partially or fully handmade.  He refers to them as "bench beads" in the video.  This seems to be consistent with what I'm understanding of your post if I am reading it correctly; that bench beads are often partially handmade but may be fully handmade.  I would imagine (correct me if I'm wrong) that these days the vast majority of beads would be starting with sheet silver.  

The horsekeeping website describes the process for hand making beads in detail, but the description for bench beads is more brief:  

"Bench made Beads (also known as Bench Beads) usually refer to beads that are partially manufactured and partially hand made. Usually the silversmith starts with some machine cut pieces, which are then soldered and strung by hand."

But she definitely draws a clear distinction between what she is calling hand made vs. bench beads.  It is not clear to me whether the dapping (or punching them by hand into half domes) would be done by hand or machine for her definition of bench beads, but I'm thinking perhaps by machine, since she only describes that they are soldered and strung by hand. 

I actually would have guessed that the beads in the video were machine made.   One thing that's been suggested to me before is to look for a seam; if the seam is very prominent or not visible at all it is likely to be machine made.  If the seam is present but subtle it is likely to be hand made.  I'm not sure if it's true or not, just something that's been told to me.  It does work for the two contrasting pictures of handmade vs. bench made beads on the Horsekeeping website.  But not for the beads from the video, which he says are handmade but I cannot see a seam on.  And I have a set of disc beads I was told were handmade where I cannot appreciate at seam.  Your idea of looking at the holes is a good one; I will definitely look closer at that from now on.  

I'm sorry if this is all too esoteric but I'm doing my best to try and understand and I truly appreciate your help.  Perhaps the problem is that the term "bench bead" has been used inconsistently.  Perhaps it would just be better to classify beads as fully handmade, partially handmade, and machine made.  

Your Dishta earrings sound amazing and I would love to see them if you get a chance to post.  I saw a pair recently that were really beautiful that were a large chandelier style, perhaps two inches long.  They were unmarked but had belonged to a collector who I think was the original owner and knew that they were made by Frank.  I wanted them but I wasn't prepared to part with the $1000 they wanted for them.  

And it's good to hear that I'm not devaluing my jewelry by having it sized and adjusted.  Thanks again for all your widsom!  I'll try to post some more fun pictures soon after all this boring stuff


----------



## chessmont

Cyanide Rose said:


> Beautiful pins! I love pins, I never wear them though, but it’s truly amazing how a pin can really set off an outfit. I love to see them on others. I’m not good with determining age, so I’m not sure if the few I have are truly vintage but I did try to put it on a chain once, it didn’t work well [emoji4]
> 
> I’m loving all the amazing turquoise posted, WOW!!



Do you ever wear a blazer or a collared sweater?  Perfect to put a pin in the lapel!


----------



## BigPurseSue

jellyv said:


> I don't wear pins much either because I'm scared of them falling off, so I generally search out ones with ultra secure latch closures and then leave it in place on a jean jacket or other blazer type jacket.



Buy a package of those little plastic stoppers that are used to secure shepherd's hook earrings. Jam a couple at various points where the brooch's pin pokes through the fabric. Have yet to lose a pin secured in this fashion.


----------



## jellyv

BigPurseSue said:


> Buy a package of those little plastic stoppers that are used to secure shepherd's hook earrings. Jam a couple at various points where the brooch's pin pokes through the fabric. Have yet to lose a pin secured in this fashion.


Yes, great advice. I do this already.


----------



## Compass Rose

That is a very sweet pin!  I believe it is Rainbow Man, right?


View attachment 4412186

	

		
			
		

		
	
[/QUOTE]


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## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> That is a very sweet pin!  I believe it is Rainbow Man, right?


I hope it's okay if I answer: It's a Yei figure. The elongated body is the tip off.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> That is a very sweet pin!  I believe it is Rainbow Man, right?
> 
> 
> View attachment 4412186


[/QUOTE]


Thanks, I'm glad you like it!  Yes it is a Yei, a Navajo deity.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Here is one of my pendants--a tufa cast eagle pendant by Aaron Anderson set with green turquoise.  As most of you probably know, tufa cast pieces are made by hand carving the design into a tufa rock.  I really like this little guy--the only problem with it is that the shepherds hook on the back is very small and so tightly close to the back of the pendant that I can't get it over anything.  I'm going to have to try to open it up a little.  The only thing I've been able to get it on so far is some strands of liquid silver that are thin enough that I can just thread it through as if it were a regular bale, but it doesn't look right on them.  I have some beads it would look great on but I haven't been able to get it on the beads.


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Here is one of my pendants--a tufa cast eagle pendant by Aaron Anderson set with green turquoise.  As most of you probably know, tufa cast pieces are made by hand carving the design into a tufa rock.  I really like this little guy--the only problem with it is that the shepherds hook on the back is very small and so tightly close to the back of the pendant that I can't get it over anything.  I'm going to have to try to open it up a little.  The only thing I've been able to get it on so far is some strands of liquid silver that are thin enough that I can just thread it through as if it were a regular bale, but it doesn't look right on them.  I have some beads it would look great on but I haven't been able to get it on the beads.
> 
> View attachment 4413232
> View attachment 4413233


That gorgeous delicate piece would tempt me to put it on a silver chain and pair it with another strand of Navajo pearls.  I love it! I would have to find a way to wear it!


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Here is one of my pendants--a tufa cast eagle pendant by Aaron Anderson set with green turquoise.  As most of you probably know, tufa cast pieces are made by hand carving the design into a tufa rock.  I really like this little guy]


Very elegant work from a really inventive artist. I admire the craftsmanship it takes to make successful tufa pieces--rather amazing what they have to do. CR has a good suggestion for how to wear, and another idea might be to attach a separate bale to the hook,  which would require minimal prying open, like this (I have no connection to the seller):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Navajo-Handmade-Necklace-Bail-Extender-7J20B-/382553598511

Thanks for sharing this cool piece!


----------



## Compass Rose

That ebay piece just might do it!  I like it, myself...


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Today...I am wearing this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4378099




This thread is a dangerous money pit With the new discussion on Navajo Pearls,  I had to research further. They look like black pearls, which for some reason I have always struggled with styling. The images of Navajo pearLs I’ve  found look so great stacked.. ya know “more is more”.

 Look at this! So so awesome.
 Actually I desperately want this jacket and have searched all day to no avail 
J’adore the entire outfit!!




Credit: cowgirls magazine


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> .  It is not clear to me whether the dapping (or punching them by hand into half domes) would be done by hand or machine for her definition of bench beads, but I'm thinking perhaps by machine, since she only describes that they are soldered and strung by hand.
> 
> One thing that's been suggested to me before is to look for a seam; if the seam is very prominent or not visible at all it is likely to be machine made.  If the seam is present but subtle it is likely to be hand made.  I'm not sure if it's true or not, just something that's been told



Just two quick comments: Dapping is a hand process. I don't know if any machines exist that could imitate it, but if you Google "how to dap and dome metal jewelry" you'll see the tools and hand processes. Certainly it's done in beads by artists who are known for making beaded necklaces by hand. I have a fabulous string by Cippy Crazyhorse, and he does everything 100% by hand.

About seams: my best beads do have only a subtle join between the halves, so there's something to that idea. But the biggest concern in looking at silver beads, if you don't know their source, is if they're even Navajo made. There's a lot out there that are Mexican beads.
---

You may want to buy or borrow "Indian Jewelry Making" by Oscar Branson, an old book on techniques.


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> This thread is a dangerous money pit With the new discussion on Navajo Pearls,  I had to research further. They look like black pearls, which for some reason I have always struggled with styling.



Navajo "pearls" is the term for the classic Navajo silver beads.  Mostly in sterling silver now, earlier made from coins. They come in different sizes and finishes, including being oxidized so they look darker. But there are lots of strands in bright polished silver.
Yes it can get spendy!


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> Navajo "pearls" is the term for the classic Navajo silver beads.  Mostly in sterling silver now, earlier made from coins. They come in different sizes and finishes, including being oxidized so they look darker. But there are lots of strands in bright polished silver.
> Yes it can get spendy!


Oh I think I get it. Coins being manually beaten into 1/2 spheres and then joined at the equator is the origin of these beads (though admittedly, I have no clue how new beads are machined). So much hand craftsmanship. I wish I could see handmade vs. machine made side-by-side.  Seems  some museum would have an educational display on all things Native American. Thanks *Jellyv *You're a wealth of information.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> That gorgeous delicate piece would tempt me to put it on a silver chain and pair it with another strand of Navajo pearls.  I love it! I would have to find a way to wear it!





jellyv said:


> Just two quick comments: Dapping is a hand process. I don't know if any machines exist that could imitate it, but if you Google "how to dap and dome metal jewelry" you'll see the tools and hand processes. Certainly it's done in beads by artists who are known for making beaded necklaces by hand. I have a fabulous string by Cippy Crazyhorse, and he does everything 100% by hand.
> 
> About seams: my best beads do have only a subtle join between the halves, so there's something to that idea. But the biggest concern in looking at silver beads, if you don't know their source, is if they're even Navajo made. There's a lot out there that are Mexican beads.
> ---
> 
> You may want to buy or borrow "Indian Jewelry Making" by Oscar Branson, an old book on techniques.



Thanks for the extra clarification.  I'm going to have to read more about this and put that book on my wishlist.  I do think it's important to be able to recognize hand made from machined beads, and from ones that aren't even Navajo made like you said, so it's a skill I'm trying to hone.  To me so many squash blossoms from the 70's and later look like they have non-handmade beads which makes them less appealing to me even if the turquoise or naja design is pretty.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Oh I think I get it. Coins being manually beaten into 1/2 spheres and then joined at the equator is the origin of these beads (though admittedly, I have no clue how new beads are machined). So much hand craftsmanship. I wish I could see handmade vs. machine made side-by-side.  Seems  some museum would have an educational display on all things Native American. Thanks *Jellyv *You're a wealth of information.



You're exactly right.  Here is a contemporary necklace I have made out of mercury dimes.  Although it is new it is handmade in the old style and I think it really illustrates the way of making beads that you have described.  They also would have melted the coins down into coin silver to make beads.





I agree with you that they look great stacked and with this look more is more!  They look great layered with turquoise beads too.


----------



## Compass Rose

I am blown away...../


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> You're exactly right.  Here is a contemporary necklace I have made out of mercury dimes.  Although it is new it is handmade in the old style and I think it really illustrates the way of making beads that you have described.  They also would have melted the coins down into coin silver to make beads.
> 
> View attachment 4413499
> View attachment 4413500
> 
> 
> I agree with you that they look great stacked and with this look more is more!  They look great layered with turquoise beads too.


Uh.. wait...did you say you made these? Holy guacamole! I am impressed!iDid you put the dime onto a spherical form and then just hammer away? Wow.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Uh.. wait...did you say you made these? Holy guacamole! I am impressed!iDid you put the dime onto a spherical form and then just hammer away? Wow.



Oh no, I didn't make them.  I can see now how it might read that way.  It is a necklace I have, which is made out of mercury dimes.  The artist is James McCabe, Navajo.

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> You're exactly right.  Here is a contemporary necklace I have made out of mercury dimes.
> 
> I agree with you that they look great stacked and with this look more is more!  They look great layered with turquoise beads too.


What a dramatic necklace! Very old-timey, with a fresh reinterpretation. My issue with it would be that it must be heavy. I can't tolerate heavy necklaces, which is really a shame and limiting. Sadly, I've bought and then sold some really beautiful necklaces, both silver pieces and turquoise tab types, because of gram weight. I'm always amazed how much weight that both Native Americans and most other tribal people worldwide wear around the neck. 

I do still have great necklaces, but I am careful about the weight. Sigh.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> What a dramatic necklace! Very old-timey, with a fresh reinterpretation. My issue with it would be that it must be heavy. I can't tolerate heavy necklaces, which is really a shame and limiting. Sadly, I've bought and then sold some really beautiful necklaces, both silver pieces and turquoise tab types, because of gram weight. I'm always amazed how much weight that both Native Americans and most other tribal people worldwide wear around the neck.
> 
> I do still have great necklaces, but I am careful about the weight. Sigh.



Yes, it is wonderfully heavy and I love it that way.  I actually don't find that it weighs me down too much at 189 grams but I definitely know it's there.  I love stacking it with other silver and turquoise beads.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Yes, it is wonderfully heavy and I love it that way.  I actually don't find that it weighs me down too much at 189 grams but I definitely know it's there.  I love stacking it with other silver and turquoise beads.


Heavy is beautiful in these necklaces. It's just a personal limitation I have that I wish I didn't...but it could be a factor of age, too--my bones are creakier than yours.

Weight is, as you know,  a good thing in Navajo aesthetics.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Here are a couple things I just got, both vintage coral.  Coral inlay ring circa 60s and concentric Dishta style hoops with coral, circa 50s.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> View attachment 4418957
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are a couple things I just got, both vintage coral.  Coral inlay ring circa 60s and concentric Dishta style hoops with coral, circa 50s.


I really like the coral look!  What is Dishta? Do you find your things online or in stores? I have been scouring ebay just to see what’s  out there, training my eye etc. I don’t trust my eye enough to distinguish real from fake, new from old, or even whether turquoise/coral is real or block or reconstituted or fake or dyed or   That article that was posted a few weeks back made me so nervous...


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> I really like the coral look!  What is Dishta? Do you find your things online or in stores? I have been scouring ebay just to see what’s  out there, training my eye etc. I don’t trust my eye enough to distinguish real from fake, new from old, or even whether turquoise/coral is real or block or reconstituted or fake or dyed or   That article that was posted a few weeks back made me so nervous...



I got these both online.  From what I can tell you are getting pretty good at telling what you are looking at.  But the best way to be sure if you have any doubt is to buy from a reputable dealer.  Did you see the list that jellyv posted a few pages back?  Both of these are actually from sites on that list.  

Dishta style is a type of completely flush inlay which was popular in the 40's and 50's.  As far as I understand it was originated by members of the Dishta family (Zuni) but I think that other Zuni artisans worked in the same style.  Here are some examples (from the internet) of Dishta style.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> I really like the coral look!  What is Dishta? Do you find your things online or in stores? I have been scouring ebay just to see what’s  out there, training my eye etc. I don’t trust my eye enough to distinguish real from fake, new from old, or even whether turquoise/coral is real or block or reconstituted or fake or dyed or   That article that was posted a few weeks back made me so nervous...



I do buy lots of my jewelry in person as well.  I live on the east coast so there's not as much stuff, but I scour flea markets and vintage shops and occasionally find good stuff there.  I've also found a few dealers that come through for traveling shows and have pretty good stuff.  And I go out west as often as I can   I've gotten to the point where I feel pretty confident I can tell what I'm looking at but if I have any doubt I don't buy.  

The list of reputable dealers jellyv posted before is awesome; some of them I knew of but others were new to me.  Definitely spend some time on those sites seeing if there's anything you like, and if you're interested I can provide some other reputable online sellers and I'm sure jellyv probably can too.  And if you have questions about a purchase you are considering feel free to post here or on Turquoise People, we are always glad to help and I enjoy seeing those posts because I learn from them too!


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> View attachment 4418957
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are a couple things I just got, both vintage coral.  Coral inlay ring circa 60s and concentric Dishta style hoops with coral, circa 50s.



Wow, great purchases. I love the Dishta earrings. These are cousins to my own newest buy. Mine are built very similarly to these. As you know, they are much scarcer to find in coral than in turq. And how cool to have a companion ring! I'll try to take a pic of my earrings.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Wow, great purchases. I love the Dishta earrings. These are cousins to my own newest buy. Mine are built very similarly to these. As you know, they are much scarcer to find in coral than in turq. And how cool to have a companion ring! I'll try to take a pic of my earrings.



Thanks!  It's fun that they go so well together.  I would love too see your Dishta earrings.  And those Cippy Crazyhorse beads--I'd love to have something by him.


----------



## jellyv

Here are my Dishta earrings, early, and by either Frank or Virgil. Very sweet. I did have the loop closed up to keep the hoops secure.

And Cippy Crazyhorse: Handmade beads necklace, dragonfly pendant necklace on a cord that I wear a lot, and men's cuff in a classic Joe Quintana style, with old-stash Pilot Mountain turquoise. I include a detail of the beads, which show no seam (how did he do that? light bounce may not show it well).


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> Here are my Dishta earrings, early, and by either Frank or Virgil. Very sweet. I did have the loop closed up to keep the hoops secure.
> 
> And Cippy Crazyhorse: Handmade beads necklace, dragonfly pendant necklace on a cord that I wear a lot, and men's cuff in a classic Joe Quintana style, with old-stash Pilot Mountain turquoise. I include a detail of the beads, which show no seam (how did he do that? light bounce may not show it well).



I am really enjoying all these pictures. Dishta style is very sweet!  
That’s a wow cuff! Won’t you model it for us? Please? 

Ok here goes another one of my questions... how can you tell those beads are handmade? Is it because it’s  not spherical? It seems harder to distinguish with smooth beads than those with pattern.


Finally, on a different note, how do you all style your wardrobe with your native american pieces. I’m not sure I could do more than one piece at a time outside of the southwest. It just would look too “costumey” on me.  I’m also thinking that the outfit should be really simple to give the pieces the spotlight. I love the few pieces I have and need ideas! How do you wear your pieces?


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> I am really enjoying all these pictures. Dishta style is very sweet!
> That’s a wow cuff! Won’t you model it for us? Please?
> 
> Ok here goes another one of my questions... how can you tell those beads are handmade? Is it because it’s  not spherical? It seems harder to distinguish with smooth beads than those with pattern.



Thanks so much. About the beads, Cippy's known to make his beads by hand, so it's not a detecting situation, just factual about this artist. To me this is what makes his beads artistic and a good value for the price.  I sort of "know" the family a little, in that I worked directly with his wife Sue to have that cuff custom made as a gift.

I can't usefully model the cuff because it's not my size...maybe I can persuade DH to model it for a pic. 

About styling, I don't do anything special--I wear my NA jewelry by default, i.e., usually. Earrings and a bracelet, even adding a good ring, are easy and not particularly noticeable to others as being decked out. If it's a dramatic necklace, it's usually against a simple background, whether a white shirt or a dark neutral top. I do wear a jean jacket and other jackets with major pins.


----------



## Compass Rose

Finally, on a different note, how do you all style your wardrobe with your native american pieces. I’m not sure I could do more than one piece at a time outside of the southwest. It just would look too “costumey” on me.  I’m also thinking that the outfit should be really simple to give the pieces the spotlight. I love the few pieces I have and need ideas! How do you wear your pieces?[/QUOTE]
I wear a lot of black tops and white tops.  That is my preference for showcasing the pieces that I own.  I just cannot seem to wear any print that would clash and not show off the pendant, earrings or bracelets that I own.  That is just me and how I feel about it.  These last few pieces are just so beautiful.  Thank you all for sharing.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Here are my Dishta earrings, early, and by either Frank or Virgil. Very sweet. I did have the loop closed up to keep the hoops secure.
> 
> And Cippy Crazyhorse: Handmade beads necklace, dragonfly pendant necklace on a cord that I wear a lot, and men's cuff in a classic Joe Quintana style, with old-stash Pilot Mountain turquoise. I include a detail of the beads, which show no seam (how did he do that? light bounce may not show it well).


 
These are all fantastic!  Your earrings really are similar to my coral ones.  Makes me feel like maybe I got a good buy, although I'm sure mine aren't by one of THE Dishtas.  I love the Cippy beads.  It's amazing he can make them so seamless and perfect; his work is incredible.  If I had unlimited funds I think I would buy myself one of his belts.  And that cuff!  Very JHQ, as you said.  That's a really impressive peice of turquoise.  Too bad it's men's and you can't show it off.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> If I had unlimited funds I think I would buy myself one of his belts.  And that cuff!  Very JHQ, as you said.  That's a really impressive peice of turquoise.  Too bad it's men's and you can't show it off.



Yes, your earrings are terrific whatever you paid.
--
Thank you. I've been a Cippy fan for a long time, think his work has been an undervalued bargain (but it has crept up over the years).  Did you know he had been governor of Cochiti Pueblo? His son Waddie is coming along strongly as a jeweler.  Waddie's a Stanford U. guy, I remember how excited his folks were when he was admitted.

I'll see if I can wrangle a mod shot of that cuff. It really is spectacular, flares toward the terminals. That stone is indeed large and came from Cippy's stash--quite typical of great jewelers to keep a collection of special stones.

For those who might not know, Cippy is the son of legendary Cochiti jewelry master Joe H. Quintana ( JHQ). We do have a belt buckle by him. Was lucky enough to see a comprehensive museum exhibition of his work in Santa Fe in the early 2000s--seeing it as a group, you can't help but be in awe of the blend of modernism and tradition.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> I am really enjoying all these pictures. Dishta style is very sweet!
> That’s a wow cuff! Won’t you model it for us? Please?
> 
> Ok here goes another one of my questions... how can you tell those beads are handmade? Is it because it’s  not spherical? It seems harder to distinguish with smooth beads than those with pattern.
> 
> 
> Finally, on a different note, how do you all style your wardrobe with your native american pieces. I’m not sure I could do more than one piece at a time outside of the southwest. It just would look too “costumey” on me.  I’m also thinking that the outfit should be really simple to give the pieces the spotlight. I love the few pieces I have and need ideas! How do you wear your pieces?



I don't know that I necessarily would know these beads are handmade, if I didn't already know.  As I said before I'm still working on being able to tell the difference, and these are just so perfect that it's hard.  But I feel like there might be slight variations from bead to bead, and the fact that they are not perfectly spherical is a clue.  I find that handmade beads are more often interesting shapes, even though that of course won't tell you for sure.  Mostly it's just that Cippy Crazyhorse is known for making amazing handmade stuff.  

Like others on here I also like to style my NA jewelry with simple clothes.  Especially when I go all out dripping in turquoise, or wear my squash blossom which is a statement peice, I try to keep it simple and usually solid black or white.  Other times I'll just throw on a simple pendant or cuff with whatever I'm wearing.  I like to accessorize a little with fringe on my bag or boots sometimes too.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Yes, your earrings are terrific whatever you paid.
> --
> Thank you. I've been a Cippy fan for a long time, think his work has been an undervalued bargain (but it has crept up over the years).  Did you know he had been governor of Cochiti Pueblo? His son Waddie is coming along strongly as a jeweler.  Waddie's a Stanford U. guy, I remember how excited his folks were when he was admitted.
> 
> I'll see if I can wrangle a mod shot of that cuff. It really is spectacular, flares toward the terminals. That stone is indeed large and came from Cippy's stash--quite typical of great jewelers to keep a collection of special stones.
> 
> For those who might not know, Cippy is the son of legendary Cochiti jewelry master Joe H. Quintana ( JHQ). We do have a belt buckle by him. Was lucky enough to see a comprehensive museum exhibition of his work in Santa Fe in the early 2000s--seeing it as a group, you can't help but be in awe of the blend of modernism and tradition.



I don't think I knew that he was governor of Cochiti, that's really cool.  Although I think Cippy's art is amazing and well worth whatever one pays for it, I'm not sure it's an undervalued bargain anymore.  At least, it's costly enough to price me out of owning anything by him for the time being.  Sigh, too late for me to get in on the ground floor on this one.  But hopefully I'll be able to get something by him eventually and if I stick with this long enough maybe I'll catch onto some other artists before the masses do.  The exhibit of JHQ in Santa Fe sounds like a really fun experience.


----------



## jellyv

Yes, I now see that the bargain era is over for Cippy. But it’s always this way: talented makers are out there at any given time, so we can get lucky and need to trust our instincts and go for it. I’ve collected great pieces ahead of the curve because I’ve been at this a while, like other collectors out there. The folks who invested in really early Navajo bracelets 20 years ago (or more) wouldn’t recognize the prices this stuff achieves today.


----------



## jellyv

The reluctant model has obliged, so here's the Cippy bracelet:


----------



## OrbitOrange

Ok Essie, since you've been asking about styling....I went out tonight (a rare thing) and went a little crazy with the turquoise.  Thought you might like a few pics.  I got quite a few compliments, actually.  It may be a bit much but it makes me happy so I just go for it.


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> The reluctant model has obliged, so here's the Cippy bracelet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4421975
> View attachment 4421976


This is really pretty! I know it’s weird to refer to a man’s item as pretty but it really is awesome! It looks like Bisbee, though you mentioned Pilot Mountain...just goes to show how trained my eye is Anyway, I think you may need to  appropriate it. Thanks for posting and thanks to the reluctant model


----------



## essiedub

essiedub said:


> This is really pretty! I know it’s weird to refer to a man’s item as pretty but it really is awesome! It looks like Bisbee, though you mentioned Pilot Mountain...just goes to show how trained my eye is Anyway, I think you may need to  appropriate it. Thanks for posting and thanks to the reluctant model


Oh thank youThis outfit really works! You look great!! Of course I Love Love LOVE your earrings; these are your Alice Quam? And nice cuff! And those beads!   The fringe bag kinda ties it all together!


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> The reluctant model has obliged, so here's the Cippy bracelet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4421975
> View attachment 4421976



Lucky man


----------



## SWlife

I absolutely need a strand of Navajo beads! Going to NM this month so I will make that happen.


----------



## Compass Rose

So very beautiful, jellly and orbit...truly beautiful artwork...


----------



## OrbitOrange

gacats said:


> I absolutely need a strand of Navajo beads! Going to NM this month so I will make that happen.


 
Yes you do!  Where are you going in NM?


----------



## jellyv

Orbit, you look _fantastic_ for your going-out night. Like an Instagram shoot for a high-end jewelry site.  Love the bag, too.  Your "look" and style are perfect for our beloved turq and silver.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Oh thank youThis outfit really works! You look great!! Of course I Love Love LOVE your earrings; these are your Alice Quam? And nice cuff! And those beads!   The fringe bag kinda ties it all together!





jellyv said:


> Orbit, you look _fantastic_ for your going-out night. Like an Instagram shoot for a high-end jewelry site.  Love the bag, too.  Your "look" and style are perfect for our beloved turq and silver.



Aww, thanks guys, you're too sweet!  An Instagram shoot with toddler toys in the background, haha.  And yes, Essie, they are my Alice Quam earrings.  So fun to be able to show them off!


----------



## SWlife

OrbitOrange said:


> Yes you do!  Where are you going in NM?



We’re looking for a home in the ABQ area. 
I’m going to look for Navajo beads, starting at Albuquerque Pawn. I follow them on Instagram and like what I see. And I always go to Shumakolowa, but the markup in order to support their museum is too much. They do have a native man working there who is SO knowledgeable. I always like to say hi to him.


----------



## Compass Rose

gacats said:


> We’re looking for a home in the ABQ area.
> I’m going to look for Navajo beads, starting at Albuquerque Pawn. I follow them on Instagram and like what I see. And I always go to Shumakolowa, but the markup in order to support their museum is too much. They do have a native man working there who is SO knowledgeable. I always like to say hi to him.


I envy your home search.........  I am not too familiar with the ABQ area for shopping, but it seems I always gravitate to Ortega's in Santa Fe......probably out of habit, but it's like a museum of amazing native american jewelry in there.


----------



## OrbitOrange

gacats said:


> We’re looking for a home in the ABQ area.
> I’m going to look for Navajo beads, starting at Albuquerque Pawn. I follow them on Instagram and like what I see. And I always go to Shumakolowa, but the markup in order to support their museum is too much. They do have a native man working there who is SO knowledgeable. I always like to say hi to him.



Ooh, fun!  Once you buy a house in Albuquerque you can buy ALL the jewelry.  It would be dangerous for me to live there, ha!  I have never really been to Albuquerque, other than to and from the airport during trips to Santa Fe and Taos.  But we are going again this summer and I'm really hoping to spend a day in Old Town, so I'm definitely interested in your recommendations and your feedback from the places you go.  I just Googled Shumakolowa and it looks great!  They had a Marie Qualo buckle just like my ring (but it's sold, still on the website)--I recognized it right away.  I know the Turquoise Museum is there also and they have a little shop; I want to check that out.  Their book (Turquoise Unearthed) is really great.  Let us know how it goes with the beads!  We'll require pictures!


----------



## cdtracing

OrbitOrange said:


> View attachment 4422080
> View attachment 4422081
> View attachment 4422082
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok Essie, since you've been asking about styling....I went out tonight (a rare thing) and went a little crazy with the turquoise.  Thought you might like a few pics.  I got quite a few compliments, actually.  It may be a bit much but it makes me happy so I just go for it.


I love this look!!  I don't think you went overboard on the turquoise at all!  You are really rocking it!!


----------



## Compass Rose

If I could only pull that look off.......OrbitOrange........amazing!!!


----------



## OrbitOrange

cdtracing said:


> I love this look!!  I don't think you went overboard on the turquoise at all!  You are really rocking it!!



Thank you!



Compass Rose said:


> If I could only pull that look off.......OrbitOrange........amazing!!!



You totally can!  Go for it!


----------



## essiedub

I have been browsing and 2 cuffs have stirred my interest ..expensive so I am just putting it out there for discussion/ comments/recommendations.  I like both of these. The cluster cuff for the way it’s clustered and the interesting coloring of the stones. I like the single giant stone because of its size and mini spiderwebbing and the stunning starburst setting (inspired by *jellylv’s* wow piece) I don’t love that there is a section on the big stone that looks “wet.” There are both priced the same.   Need your thoughts. Which do you prefer and why?


----------



## Compass Rose

Hi, essie!  I absolutely love them both, but that is such an understatement...  Now, if it were me attempting to wear either of those bracelets, I would personally gravitate toward the multi-stone piece only because it looks more comfortable to wear, as I feel by the way that honker rock looks, it would dig into my wrist if I bent my wrist a certain way...kwim?  But, maybe that isn't eve a factor.  And, both are very impressive and eye-catching to say the least about them.  In any event, I just love the center stone of the multi-stone piece, even though you say it looks wet on a part of it..which could be the way it was polished, maybe?  I would love it anyway because  of the way all of those stones have great almost uniform markings.


----------



## OrbitOrange

I think they are both really nice bracelets.  I think my personal preference is for the cluster cuff, but that may just be because I am a sucker for any kind of cluster work.  Are all the stones OK on it? I can't quite tell.  I also think that one might be a little bit older than the large stone cuff, although I'm not great a dating things and I certainly could be wrong.  My guess though, would be that the cluster cuff might be 80's-90's and the other one fairly contemporary? I see what you mean about a section of the huge stone appearing a little "wet."  I wonder if it might be an area where it absorbed some oils?  Compass might have a point also about the cluster cuff being a little easier to wear.


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> I have been browsing and 2 cuffs have stirred my interest ..expensive so I am just putting it out there for discussion/ comments/recommendations.
> ]



There's the look, and then there's quality. These don't always go together. As a starting collector, consider the nature and quality of the turq you want to have. In that single-stone cuff,  dramatic though it is, given the size and webbing I suspect you're looking at a Chinese turquoise, not American.  This is a really big distinction, and you need to work out  what your strategy is in building a collection. Chinese OK? Not for me,  because what's truly valuable and special, and in keeping with Southwest materials, are the American mined stones. So you have to know what you're buying. A whole lot of webbed stones around today are from Hubei and elsewhere in China.

Now if that's actually (1) American turq and (2) high grade, that cuff should be _very _expensive. Is it?

The multi-stone cuff looks more natural and attractive, to me.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Hi, essie!  I absolutely love them both, but that is such an understatement...  Now, if it were me attempting to wear either of those bracelets, I would personally gravitate toward the multi-stone piece only because it looks more comfortable to wear, as I feel by the way that honker rock looks, it would dig into my wrist if I bent my wrist a certain way...kwim?  But, maybe that isn't eve a factor.  And, both are very impressive and eye-catching to say the least about them.  In any event, I just love the center stone of the multi-stone piece, even though you say it looks wet on a part of it..which could be the way it was polished, maybe?  I would love it anyway because  of the way all of those stones have great almost uniform markings.



Thank you. Yes I agree on the comfort factor of the giant stone piece. I’m liking the cluster better this morning.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> I think they are both really nice bracelets.  I think my personal preference is for the cluster cuff, but that may just be because I am a sucker for any kind of cluster work.  Are all the stones OK on it? I can't quite tell.  I also think that one might be a little bit older than the large stone cuff, although I'm not great a dating things and I certainly could be wrong.  My guess though, would be that the cluster cuff might be 80's-90's and the other one fairly contemporary? I see what you mean about a section of the huge stone appearing a little "wet."  I wonder if it might be an area where it absorbed some oils?  Compass might have a point also about the cluster cuff being a little easier to wear.



Yeah, I think the cluster is definitely more wearable; really like the deep color of the stones, and the interesting design of the bezel around just the middle stone inside the cluster. Gosh this stuff is addictive


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> Ok now we talk about something else. There's the look, and then there's quality. These don't always go together. As a starting collector, consider the nature and quality of the turq you want to have. In that single-stone cuff,  dramatic though it is, given the size and webbing I suspect you're looking at a Chinese turquoise, not American.  This is a really big distinction, and you need to work out  what your strategy is in building a collection. Chinese OK? Not for me,  because what's truly valuable and special, and in keeping with Southwest materials, are the American mined stones. So you have to know what you're buying. A whole lot of webbed stones around today are from Hubei and elsewhere in China.
> 
> Now if that's actually (1) American turq and (2) high grade, that cuff should be _very _expensive. Is it?
> 
> The multi-stone cuff looks more natural and attractive, to me.



Yes thank you! I see what you’re saying. There was nothing on the stone origin on either piece and yes,  I do want to stay with American stones. Do you think the stones in the cluster are from an American mine? 
Yes price gives it away! They were both about $800..probably not considered *super* expensive (but pricey enough for me as a new learner to not just hit “buy”)


Ugh I need to cool my jets...really need to touch and feel more of the stuff. Maybe internet buying isn’t the right approach. This can become an expensive and addictive habitand I could be making many mistakes. Thanks for all your collective help.


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> Yes thank you! I see what you’re saying. There was nothing on the stone origin on either piece and yes,  I do want to stay with American stones. Do you think the stones in the cluster are from an American mine?
> Yes price gives it away! They were both about $800..probably not considered *super* expensive (but pricey enough for me as a new learner to not just hit “buy”)
> 
> p.



Always good to take a minute. Of course there are widely varying grades of turq in both American and Chinese turq.  For a whopper-sized webbed stone like that one, it'd be *way more* costly if it were American and natural.

About the cluster cuff, it does look like American turquoise, though it would be hard to pin down exact mines. That's why it's always wise, and also a legal protection, to ask for in writing a statement of the material's origins and whether or not it's natural or stabilized. At the $800 price range for a cuff, it's sensible to ask for that. If they don't know, then they should say so and then it's caveat emptor.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> There's the look, and then there's quality. These don't always go together. As a starting collector, consider the nature and quality of the turq you want to have. In that single-stone cuff,  dramatic though it is, given the size and webbing I suspect you're looking at a Chinese turquoise, not American.  This is a really big distinction, and you need to work out  what your strategy is in building a collection. Chinese OK? Not for me,  because what's truly valuable and special, and in keeping with Southwest materials, are the American mined stones. So you have to know what you're buying. A whole lot of webbed stones around today are from Hubei and elsewhere in China.
> 
> Now if that's actually (1) American turq and (2) high grade, that cuff should be _very _expensive. Is it?
> 
> The multi-stone cuff looks more natural and attractive, to me.



I didn't think about that stone being Chinese but it makes perfect sense now that you say it.  My question, though, is:  is that really the worst thing?   I haven't banned Chinese turquoise from my collection, at least not yet.  Probably just because I can't afford to be too picky .  But I've rationalized it like this (feel free to shoot me down and change my mind if I'm totally wrong):  I know that the classic southwestern mines are more desirable and command a premium.  I definitely prefer to have them.  But none with the exception of Kingman, I think, are actively producing any more.  And obviously as supply continues to go down, prices go up.  And some pretty, high quality turquoise is coming out of China right now.  Where it comes from doesn't really take away from the wonder to me that something so beautiful can be created naturally.  As far as it not being "truly southwestern" I rationalize that Native Americans have used material like shell from hundreds of miles away obtained through trade networks since forever.  So I figure that if I need to compromise on something to get a look that I want (like a large spiderweb stone), a Chinese stone isn't a terrible place to do it.  And good artists do work with Chinese turquoise and incorporate it into high quality work.  Anyway, first I need to get better at recognizing Chinese turquoise.  Your hint that if it has nice spiderwebbing and isn't outrageously expensive is one that I'll have to keep in mind.  So should I totally change my way of thinking on this one?


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> I didn't think about that stone being Chinese but it makes perfect sense now that you say it.  My question, though, is:  is that really the worst thing?   I haven't banned Chinese turquoise from my collection, at least not yet.  Probably just because I can't afford to be too picky .  But I've rationalized it like this (feel free to shoot me down and change my mind if I'm totally wrong):  I know that the classic southwestern mines are more desirable and command a premium.  I definitely prefer to have them.  But none with the exception of Kingman, I think, are actively producing any more.  And obviously as supply continues to go down, prices go up.  And some pretty, high quality turquoise is coming out of China right now.  Where it comes from doesn't really take away from the wonder to me that something so beautiful can be created naturally.  As far as it not being "truly southwestern" I rationalize that Native Americans have used material like shell from hundreds of miles away obtained through trade networks since forever.  So I figure that if I need to compromise on something to get a look that I want (like a large spiderweb stone), a Chinese stone isn't a terrible place to do it.  *And good artists do work with Chinese turquoise and incorporate it into high quality work.*  Anyway, first I need to get better at recognizing Chinese turquoise.  Your hint that if it has nice spiderwebbing and isn't outrageously expensive is one that I'll have to keep in mind.  So should I totally change my way of thinking on this one?




I get what you're saying.  While, my preference is to stay with American mines (especially for more pricey items),  I am ok with non-American so long as it's disclosed etc.  Beauty is beauty.  I'd love to have my own little collection of Native American jewelry from all the different US mines!   

Somewhere I read that the first turquoises used by the Native Americans were the Persian ones via trade.  Then the demand resulted in US mines opening.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I didn't think about that stone being Chinese but it makes perfect sense now that you say it.  My question, though, is:  is that really the worst thing?   I haven't banned Chinese turquoise from my collection, at least not yet.
> 
> I rationalize that Native Americans have used material like shell from hundreds of miles away obtained through trade networks since forever.  So I figure that if I need to compromise on something to get a look that I want (like a large spiderweb stone), a Chinese stone isn't a terrible place to do it.  And good artists do work with Chinese turquoise and incorporate it into high quality work.  Anyway, first I need to get better at recognizing Chinese turquoise.  Your hint that if it has nice spiderwebbing and isn't outrageously expensive is one that I'll have to keep in mind.  So should I totally change my way of thinking on this one?



There's no wrong or right in any moral or aesthetic sense; there's just the issue of at least considering a strategy for buying and getting accurate description of the materials as you do so. I've seen incredible Navajo/Pueblo work done with Chinese turquoise, fully gem grade and hence a scarce minority of all Chinese stones. Looky here:
https://hoelsindianshop.com/shop/na...s/14kt-gold-and-turquoise-ring-andy-lee-kirk/
https://www.fourwindsgallery.com/pr...-sterling-silver-tibetan-turquoise-wide-cuff/

And as we know, there's a wide swath of ordinary, or stabilized, or color treated American turquoise. We get to make the call according to budget and taste.
--
To your comment about diverse materials coming into the hands of Native Am artists, yes indeed. Trade and traders have long moved stuff around, for eons. I wouldn't hesitate to add sugilite, which is South African in origin, or lapis from Aghanistan. But turquoise is in a different category, being a true ancient stone of the Americas, so more desirable in _my _collection.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> I get what you're saying.  While, my preference is to stay with American mines (especially for more pricey items),  I am ok with non-American so long as it's disclosed etc.  Beauty is beauty.  I'd love to have my own little collection of Native American jewelry from all the different US mines!
> 
> Somewhere I read that the first turquoises used by the Native Americans were the Persian ones via trade.  Then the demand resulted in US mines opening.



Agree the most important thing is that it's disclosed and that you know what you're getting.  That's why, as I said before, even though I love vintage I think it's often easier to know what you're getting when you buy new pieces.  Any reputable seller should be able to tell you what kind of (new) turquoise you're buying because they should have that info.  But for a vintage piece, since turquoise identification is so difficult, most sellers don't know unless they are true true experts.  And even then I take it with a grain of salt.  I read in one book an anecdote where the author thought he might have identified the mine of his turquoise.  So he took the stone to a member of a family who used to own that mine, definitely an expert on the mine, who said "yes, it's most definitely x mine."  But the mine had been sold, so then he took it to a member of the other family who had also owned the mine.  And that person said, "no, it's most definitely not from x mine."  Stories like this are why I often don't even try to identify turquoise.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> There's no wrong or right in any moral or aesthetic sense; there's just the issue of at least considering a strategy for buying and getting accurate description of the materials as you do so. I've seen incredible Navajo/Pueblo work done with Chinese turquoise, fully gem grade and hence a scarce minority of all Chinese stones. Looky here:
> https://hoelsindianshop.com/shop/na...s/14kt-gold-and-turquoise-ring-andy-lee-kirk/
> https://www.fourwindsgallery.com/pr...-sterling-silver-tibetan-turquoise-wide-cuff/
> 
> And as we know, there's a wide swath of ordinary, or stabilized, or color treated American turquoise. We get to make the call according to budget and taste.
> --
> To your comment about diverse materials coming into the hands of Native Am artists, yes indeed. Trade and traders have long moved stuff around, for eons. I wouldn't hesitate to add sugilite, which is South African in origin, or lapis from Aghanistan. But turquoise is in a different category, being a true ancient stone of the Americas, so more desirable in _my _collection.



Yeah, my collection is definitely NOT too good for either of those beautiful pieces.  Like I said, I definitely prefer the classic southwestern mines.  I think my faves are Morenci and Number Eight.  But I don't think I'm too good for a high quality Chinese rock.  You're definitely right though, that it's something I should always at least be deliberately thinking about.   

I actually don't own anything that's a real "wow" piece of turquoise.  I have a Morenci pendant that I love, but it's rather subtle.  A lot of my stuff is cluster, petit point, and row styles, that I know is decent turquoise, probably a lot of sleeping beauty and kingman, but not big statement stones.  Something to work on.  Part of the problem is that for a real statement stone, that's going to be expensive, it's hard to find something that's the perfect stone and the perfect setting and silverwork that you love.  I guess that may be why you had the Cippy bracelet custom done.  

Ok...GOT time!!

Lapis, I think, is my third favorite "stone" (including shell) in Native American jewelry, after turquoise and coral.  I'm looking to acquire more.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Agree the most important thing is that it's disclosed and that you know what you're getting.  That's why, as I said before, even though I *Love vintage I think it's often easier to know what you're getting when you buy new pieces.  *Any reputable seller should be able to tell you what kind of (new) turquoise you're buying because they should have that info.  But for a vintage piece, since turquoise identification is so difficult, most sellers don't know unless they are true true experts.  And even then I take it with a grain of salt.  I read in one book an anecdote where the author thought he might have identified the mine of his turquoise.  So he took the stone to a member of a family who used to own that mine, definitely an expert on the mine, who said "yes, it's most definitely x mine."  But the mine had been sold, so then he took it to a member of the other family who had also owned the mine.  And that person said, "no, it's most definitely not from x mine."  Stories like this are why I often don't even try to identify turquoise.



You know this might be good time to bring this up.  As you know I have been “training my eye” by looking at internet sites..mostly ebay and etsy. I did also spend some time at the sites that *jellylv* posted.  So here is my moral dilemma..on the one hand, I can buy old  styles or “old pawn” from resale sites  (assuming I get what I think I’m getting) but  the idea of someone having to sell/pawn their jewelry for $ just saddens me.  Shouldn’t I really be buying from a site that directly benefits a working artist?  It seems I should buy it at the source. How do I do that? Am I correct to assume those sites that *jellylv* posted are galleries the best way to buy as they represent the artist and promote their work? Or It seems that a trip to NewMexico is in order.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Yeah, my collection is definitely NOT too good for either of those beautiful pieces.  Like I said, I definitely prefer the classic southwestern mines.  I think my faves are Morenci and Number Eight.  But I don't think I'm too good for a high quality Chinese rock.  You're definitely right though, that it's something I should always at least be deliberately thinking about.
> 
> I actually don't own anything that's a real "wow" piece of turquoise.  I have a Morenci pendant that I love, but it's rather subtle.  A lot of my stuff is cluster, petit point, and row styles, that I know is decent turquoise, probably a lot of sleeping beauty and kingman, but not big statement stones.  Something to work on.  Part of the problem is that for a real statement stone, that's going to be expensive, it's hard to find something that's the perfect stone and the perfect setting and silverwork that you love.  I guess that may be why you had the Cippy bracelet custom done.
> 
> Ok...GOT time!!
> 
> Lapis, I think, is my third favorite "stone" (including shell) in Native American jewelry, after turquoise and coral.  I'm looking to acquire more.




Well I think your Alice Quam earrings are a wow!  Your entire outfit the other evening was terrific!   
I also like lapis but find coral earrings difficult ..pendants are ok as it’s not right next to the face.  I cant recall if  you’ve shown any coral pieces? Please post!


----------



## jellyv

essiedub said:


> So here is my moral dilemma..on the one hand, I can buy old  styles or “old pawn” from resale sites  (assuming I get what I think I’m getting) but  the idea of someone having to sell/pawn their jewelry for $ just *saddens me*.  S*houldn’t I really be buying from a site that directly benefits a working artist?*



Three comments:
First, things called old pawn are only sometimes _actually_ pawn. It's sort of a generic term for vintage jewelry.

Second, the pawn system has long been an important part of the Navajo/pueblo economy, respected by Native owners and traders alike. Jewelry or other objects that truly  go "dead pawn" aren't always a sign of financial distress that you need to feel awkward about: it simply means that the owner had the right to redeem it at a later time and didn't, for whatever reason. It could be that they'd rather have the cash offer value than the item, or the item is now old fashioned and undesirable by their standards, whatever.

Third, you can decide to support living artists, and/or decide that collecting vintage pieces is lovely and rewarding--just like anyone else who collects vintage or antique objects. Both old and new are part of the NA jewelry trade. When you buy old things, as you see on these websites, it keeps a business going that in many if not most cases also  offers work from (i.e., supports) living artists.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> You know this might be good time to bring this up.  As you know I have been “training my eye” by looking at internet sites..mostly ebay and etsy. I did also spend some time at the sites that *jellylv* posted.  So here is my moral dilemma..on the one hand, I can buy old  styles or “old pawn” from resale sites  (assuming I get what I think I’m getting) but  the idea of someone having to sell/pawn their jewelry for $ just saddens me.  Shouldn’t I really be buying from a site that directly benefits a working artist?  It seems I should buy it at the source. How do I do that? Am I correct to assume those sites that *jellylv* posted are galleries the best way to buy as they represent the artist and promote their work? Or It seems that a trip to NewMexico is in order.



This is something that I've thought about too and another reason that I buy new jewelry.  It actively benefits working artists today and gives Native Americans a way to keep their art alive.  When you buy through galleries it benefits the artist.  Or you can go to Indian Market, or the portal on the plaza at Santa Fe, and buy directly from the source.  I haven't gotten the chance to visit, but I think if you visit the Zuni reservation you can buy directly from artists in the street or randomly around the pueblo.  And I think Santo Domingo has some special market days that are open to the public where you can buy directly from the artists.  A great way to do it if you can, but not strictly necessary. 

Most things that you buy second hand though, are not necessary things that Native Americans had to pawn because they needed money.  That is the technical definition of what "dead pawn" means, but most jewelry is not dead pawn.  Even things advertised as dead pawn, or "old pawn", 90% of the time the seller is just using that as a search term to attract attention.  Most often it will have been sold by another collector.  But it is still not directly benefiting artists today (ETA:  but maybe indirectly as jellyv points out above).


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> Three comments:
> First, things called old pawn are only sometimes _actually_ pawn. It's sort of a generic term for vintage jewelry.
> 
> Second, the pawn system has long been an important part of the Navajo/pueblo economy, respected by Native owners and traders alike. Jewelry or other objects that truly  go "dead pawn" aren't always a sign of financial distress that you need to feel awkward about: it simply means that the owner had the right to redeem it at a later time and didn't, for whatever reason. It could be that they'd rather have the cash offer value than the item, or the item is now old fashioned and undesirable by their standards, whatever.
> 
> Third, you can decide to support living artists, and/or decide that collecting vintage pieces is lovely and rewarding--just like anyone else who collects vintage or antique objects. Both old and new are part of the NA jewelry trade. When you buy old things, as you see on these websites, it keeps a business going that in many if not most cases also  offers work from (i.e., supports) living artists.




Well that’s a relief really. Thank you for responding.  I’m not buying for investment or resale value (never sold anything) I just buy what I like and hope that I’m getting a decent price. It’s discovering  what I really like that has been the learning curve. One would think that to like something is purely an emotional reaction to an item but I find that I am able to appreciate an item much better once it has been explained. The latest example is your Dishta piece..the history and the craft.  This has been a fun journey.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> This is something that I've thought about too and another reason that I buy new jewelry.  It actively benefits working artists today and gives Native Americans a way to keep their art alive.  When you buy through galleries it benefits the artist.  Or you can go to Indian Market, or the portal on the plaza at Santa Fe, and buy directly from the source.  I haven't gotten the chance to visit, but I think if you visit the Zuni reservation you can buy directly from artists in the street or randomly around the pueblo.  And I think Santo Domingo has some special market days that are open to the public where you can buy directly from the artists.  A great way to do it if you can, but not strictly necessary.
> 
> Most things that you buy second hand though, are not necessary things that Native Americans had to pawn because they needed money.  That is the technical definition of what "dead pawn" means, but most jewelry is not dead pawn.  Even things advertised as dead pawn, or "old pawn", 90% of the time the seller is just using that as a search term to attract attention.  Most often it will have been sold by another collector.  But it is still not directly benefiting artists today (ETA:  but maybe indirectly as jellyv points out above).



Thanks *OrbitOrange *Sounds like an excursion is in order! 

Someone on this thread *cdtracing* or *compassRose* (I think..I have to go back a few pages) is headed to the southwest to shop. Lucky duck!  I sure hope she shares her adventures and purchases!  I may to need to just sit back and enjoy all your pieces.  Please keep posting!


----------



## SWlife

I’ll be heading to Albuquerque on Saturday the 25th. The only day I’m really going to look at jewelry is on Monday the 27th. And I’m going to be very specific about what I’m searching for- -Navajo pearls. I’ll need to keep myself way under control, because I’m nuts over turquoise. 
I sold off a Bisbee stone  cuff on eBay. I’m partly mad at myself for doing that but the cuff was too large/overpowering for me. Not my style. I just got caught up in the moment. 
I’m more a necklace person. Otherwise I never change out my jewelry. I need to stick with what I wear. 
We used to stay up in Santa Fe each year but since we’re moving to the Albuquerque area in 3 years, we’re trying to familiarize ourselves with the city.


----------



## Compass Rose

gacats said:


> I’ll be heading to Albuquerque on Saturday the 25th. The only day I’m really going to look at jewelry is on Monday the 27th. And I’m going to be very specific about what I’m searching for- -Navajo pearls. I’ll need to keep myself way under control, because I’m nuts over turquoise.
> I sold off a Bisbee stone  cuff on eBay. I’m partly mad at myself for doing that but the cuff was too large/overpowering for me. Not my style. I just got caught up in the moment.
> I’m more a necklace person. Otherwise I never change out my jewelry. I need to stick with what I wear.
> We used to stay up in Santa Fe each year but since we’re moving to the Albuquerque area in 3 years, we’re trying to familiarize ourselves with the city.


We will be making our plans in the next couple of days to take a short trip to Phoenix, Sedona, and the Grand Canyon area, and I will take some pictures of our adventures....well....my adventures....in shopping those areas....so looking forward to it.  I love old pawn, but I also am very much drawn to the new contemporary pieces that hold spiney oyster.  And Navajo pearls!  I want a strand.  The one I have is only 16 inches in length and I want at least a larger millimeter in about 18 to 20 inches, so I am very, very interested in what gcat gets for herself.  I love this thread.  I really do.


----------



## SWlife

I did buy a very small naja with Kingman stone necklace by Harrison Bitsue at Shumakolowa last year. They give you a Certificate of Authenticity card there. 
The Indian Arts and Crafts Act takes umbrage to fakes or non natives trying to pass off non native made art. So I trust this place, of course. But prices are high since its supporting a museum. The museum is worth seeing by the way. 

https://shumakolowa.com/


----------



## SWlife

Oh. This place opened recently so I will also go here. 

https://turquoisemuseum.com/


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Well I think your Alice Quam earrings are a wow!  Your entire outfit the other evening was terrific!
> I also like lapis but find coral earrings difficult ..pendants are ok as it’s not right next to the face.  I cant recall if  you’ve shown any coral pieces? Please post!



I think the AQ earrings are "wow" too!  What I meant by that is that I don't have anything that showcases a large, natural, high grade stone with a wow factor like impressive matrix or webbing.  The stones in the AQ earrings are beautiful, high quality, perfectly cut and perfectly matched because that's what she was known for.  But they are all small and any one alone would not be that impressive.  That's what I meant by I don't have anything with a "wow" stone.  But it's something for me too shoot for--having goals and aspirations is what makes this fun!  ......and expensive.

I did post the two "new to me" vintage coral peices I recently got--the diamond pattern ring and Dishta style earrings.  I only have a few other coral things but here's a pic.  Vintage ring by D. E. Dishta, modern "snake eye" coral dangle earrings (artist unknown), and row bracelet by Harold Tahe, Navajo.  Need more coral, another goal.  I've got my eye out for a coral petitpoint or needlepoint style necklace and a good cluster ring.


----------



## sdkitty

essiedub said:


> I have been browsing and 2 cuffs have stirred my interest ..expensive so I am just putting it out there for discussion/ comments/recommendations.  I like both of these. The cluster cuff for the way it’s clustered and the interesting coloring of the stones. I like the single giant stone because of its size and mini spiderwebbing and the stunning starburst setting (inspired by *jellylv’s* wow piece) I don’t love that there is a section on the big stone that looks “wet.” There are both priced the same.   Need your thoughts. Which do you prefer and why?
> 
> View attachment 4428674
> View attachment 4428675


I like the cluster one better.  The stone on the other one is too large for my taste.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I actually don't own anything that's a real "wow" piece of turquoise.  I have a Morenci pendant that I love, but it's rather subtle.  A lot of my stuff is cluster, petit point, and row styles, that I know is decent turquoise, probably a lot of sleeping beauty and kingman, but not big statement stones.  .



See, to me "wow" turquoise is _any _size of great quality.  Big is just one look. Like you, I really love the Zuni cluster style, and the skill required for great lapidary is itself part of a wow factor even when the outcome is many small but excellently cut and set stones. Our collection is pretty broad, and most of the prettiest stones are modest to medium in size. My two best cuffs both have smaller but mighty turquoise cabs, one with very old "greasy green" (affectionate nickname for antique matte green) and the other a row of  spiderweb Red Mountain and Lone Mountain. The beauty is in the quality and rarity.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> We will be making our plans in the next couple of days to take a short trip to Phoenix, Sedona, and the Grand Canyon area, and I will take some pictures of our adventures....well....my adventures....in shopping those areas....so looking forward to it.  I love old pawn, but I also am very much drawn to the new contemporary pieces that hold spiney oyster.  And Navajo pearls!  I want a strand.  The one I have is only 16 inches in length and I want at least a larger millimeter in about 18 to 20 inches, so I am very, very interested in what gcat gets for herself.  I love this thread.  I really do.





gacats said:


> Oh. This place opened recently so I will also go here.
> 
> https://turquoisemuseum.com/



I can't wait to see what you both get!  I'm also hoping to visit the Turquoise Museum in ABQ as I mentioned a few posts back.  I think maybe they just upgraded into their current location from a smaller space.


----------



## essiedub

gacats said:


> I’ll be heading to Albuquerque on Saturday the 25th. The only day I’m really going to look at jewelry is on Monday the 27th. And I’m going to be very specific about what I’m searching for- -Navajo pearls. I’ll need to keep myself way under control, because I’m nuts over turquoise.
> I sold off a Bisbee stone  cuff on eBay. I’m partly mad at myself for doing that but the cuff was too large/overpowering for me. Not my style. I just got caught up in the moment.
> I’m more a necklace person. Otherwise I never change out my jewelry. I need to stick with what I wear.
> We used to stay up in Santa Fe each year but since we’re moving to the Albuquerque area in 3 years, we’re trying to familiarize ourselves with the city.




Oh so excited for you!  Navajo pearls - another item that interests me. Good luck!


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> I think the AQ earrings are "wow" too!  What I meant by that is that I don't have anything that showcases a large, natural, high grade stone with a wow factor like impressive matrix or webbing.  The stones in the AQ earrings are beautiful, high quality, perfectly cut and perfectly matched because that's what she was known for.  But they are all small and any one alone would not be that impressive.  That's what I meant by I don't have anything with a "wow" stone.  But it's something for me too shoot for--having goals and aspirations is what makes this fun!  ......and expensive.
> 
> I did post the two "new to me" vintage coral peices I recently got--the diamond pattern ring and Dishta style earrings.  I only have a few other coral things but here's a pic.  Vintage ring by D. E. Dishta, modern "snake eye" coral dangle earrings (artist unknown), and row bracelet by Harold Tahe, Navajo.  Need more coral, another goal.  I've got my eye out for a coral petitpoint or needlepoint style necklace and a good cluster ring.
> 
> View attachment 4431459


Lovely! I really wish I could wear coral around my face. Those Zuni earrings are so pretty. Sigh.
The ring is very interesting ..the overall marquise shape and those silver ridges.

Do you stack your bracelets? I like the idea but worry that the stones could get slammed and damaged.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> See, to me "wow" turquoise is _any _size of great quality.  Big is just one look. Like you, I really love the Zuni cluster style, and the skill required for great lapidary is itself part of a wow factor even when the outcome is many small but excellently cut and set stones. Our collection is pretty broad, and most of the prettiest stones are modest to medium in size. My two best cuffs both have smaller but mighty turquoise cabs, one with very old "greasy green" (affectionate nickname for antique matte green) and the other a row of  spiderweb Red Mountain and Lone Mountain. The beauty is in the quality and rarity.



You're right, of course.  But I'd still like a peice that's built around a moderately sized, really pretty stone.

Your two best cuffs.....meaning both better than that Alice Quam coral cuff?  I'm impressed.  Please post!  Would esp love to see that Red Mtn/Lone Mtn turquoise.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Your two best cuffs.....meaning both better than that Alice Quam coral cuff?  I'm impressed.  Please post!  Would esp love to see that Red Mtn/Lone Mtn turquoise.


Ugh good point...I should explain.  Alice is the tops in my Zuni department and without peer in Zuni cluster work (along with her clan members).  But other examples of my Alice bracelet can occasionally turn up for sale, because she made several of them, whereas these two "best" of my Navajo bracelets are one of a kind. Best is always relative, lol--believe me, there are way higher end Navajo bracelets out there.  Of mine, one is very early, the other is by Fred Peshlakai. I will try to share a couple pics.

Speaking of rarity, golly the high end for early Nav bracelets recently has shot way the heck up.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Lovely! I really wish I could wear coral around my face. Those Zuni earrings are so pretty. Sigh.
> The ring is very interesting ..the overall marquise shape and those silver ridges.
> 
> Do you stack your bracelets? I like the idea but worry that the stones could get slammed and damaged.


 
Why do you not like to wear coral around your face?  Do you just feel that it doesn't compliment your features?  I've come across those rings by D. E. Dishta fairly frequently on eBay/Etsy/etc, usually in turquoise, always the same style.  This one was the only one I've seen in coral, and the price was good, so I went for it.  

As far as stacking, I do like to stack my bracelets sometimes.  Something like that coral row bracelet above has a pretty good "buffer" between the edge of the bracelet and the stone settings.  If the setting is right at the edge of the bracelet I'm a little more careful.


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## jellyv

Stacking is a true Navajo way of wearing bracelets, as well as being "Santa Fe style." I love the look but don't tend to do it much, except for a pair of silver bracelets made by Thomas and Jennifer Curtis that I always stack. I am bugged by knowing they're getting a little scraped up because of this, but they look so great and they just want to be together. Because they're bright polished, I do clean them down occasionally and then keep banging them together again.


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## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Why do you not like to wear coral around your face?  Do you just feel that it doesn't compliment your features?  I've come across those rings by D. E. Dishta fairly frequently on eBay/Etsy/etc, usually in turquoise, always the same style.  This one was the only one I've seen in coral, and the price was good, so I went for it.
> 
> As far as stacking, I do like to stack my bracelets sometimes.  Something like that coral row bracelet above has a pretty good "buffer" between the edge of the bracelet and the stone settings.  If the setting is right at the edge of the bracelet I'm a little more careful.



Not sure why, but the particular color of coral saps all the color out of my face. Maybe it makes me look ruddy. Rather than look crisp and vibrant and alive, it kinda looks old and dull. Sad  but it seems  to work ok as a necklace.

Love the stacked look..more is more! I really need to find some cuffs


----------



## essiedub

jellyv said:


> Stacking is a true Navajo way of wearing bracelets, as well as being "Santa Fe style." I love the look but don't tend to do it much, except for a pair of silver bracelets made by Thomas and Jennifer Curtis that I always stack. I am bugged by knowing they're getting a little scraped up because of this, but they look so great and they just want to be together. Because they're bright polished, I do clean them down occasionally and then keep banging them together again.



Ooh please post your stacks! We all want to see!!

Have I posted this photo?  I aspire to this. 


  I have been looking for pieces like these. Isn’t it nifty?  They look of an older era? I think I have to ensure they’re the same general color 
Top is big cluster Navajo 
2nd looks like Tufa setting
And well that’s all I know..


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> Stacking is a true Navajo way of wearing bracelets, as well as being "Santa Fe style." I love the look but don't tend to do it much, except for a pair of silver bracelets made by Thomas and Jennifer Curtis that I always stack. I am bugged by knowing they're getting a little scraped up because of this, but they look so great and they just want to be together. Because they're bright polished, I do clean them down occasionally and then keep banging them together again.I


I have three small bracelets that I always stack - a spiny oyster one and two jennifer curtis bracelets -  a turquoise row and a gold/silver one.  I never stack larger bracelets.


----------



## chessmont

Ok a pox on whoever mentioned Garlands in this thread! And I mean this in the nicest way ❤️  I purchased 2 spectacular cuffs from them. One by Cody Hunter called “Inner Beauty” and one amazing cuff by Alice Lister. Hoping I can attach pics as I still can’t using the phone app o am in the ‘online’ app right now.


----------



## chessmont

Sorry some are sideways. The Inner Beauty has amazing etching (right word?) inside the cuff. DH said why did you get that if no one can see what’s inside?  But I can and I do take it off and look inside and it makes me smile.  The Alice Lister cuff is spectacular I just had to have it. Amazingly, when DH found out the prices he wasn’t upset because he appreciates artistry.


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## jellyv

chessmont said:


> View attachment 4432349
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> 
> Ok a pox on whoever mentioned Garlands in this thread! And I mean this in the nicest way ❤️  I purchased 2 spectacular cuffs from them. One by Cody Hunter called “Inner Beauty” and one amazing cuff by Alice Lister. Hoping I can attach pics as I still can’t using the phone app o am in the ‘online’ app right now.


OMG these are incredible. Congrats! I've seen the David and Alice Lister pieces in person, which you really have to to fully appreciate how exciting they are. Their work is the flagship for this multicolor idea, which is often clumsily executed by other makers. As in your cuff, the color blending plus the craftsmanship is without peer. It's truly a stunner, I know if it were mine I couldn't take my eyes off it!

The beautiful silver piece with the "hidden fun" is so unique. I'd call the interior scene relief work, which is harder to achieve (by far) than incising/stamping because it requires hand cutting away the silver to leave the design. Wow!

Enjoy!


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## essiedub

chessmont said:


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> Ok a pox on whoever mentioned Garlands in this thread! And I mean this in the nicest way ❤️  I purchased 2 spectacular cuffs from them. One by Cody Hunter called “Inner Beauty” and one amazing cuff by Alice Lister. Hoping I can attach pics as I still can’t using the phone app o am in the ‘online’ app right now.



Wow! I love the secret interior cuff! What does it depict? I think I see monument valley? It’s so very cool and modern on the outside. What are the various stones on the rainbow cuff; so nicely graded. Would you post a wrist shot of both? Thanks for sharing!


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## sdkitty

chessmont said:


> View attachment 4432349
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> 
> Ok a pox on whoever mentioned Garlands in this thread! And I mean this in the nicest way ❤️  I purchased 2 spectacular cuffs from them. One by Cody Hunter called “Inner Beauty” and one amazing cuff by Alice Lister. Hoping I can attach pics as I still can’t using the phone app o am in the ‘online’ app right now.


Wow....there is a lot of work in both of those beautiful bracelets.  I'd love to seen a modeling photo esp of the Lister one.  It looks very wide in the photo.


----------



## chessmont

essiedub said:


> Wow! I love the secret interior cuff! What does it depict? I think I see monument valley? It’s so very cool and modern on the outside. What are the various stones on the rainbow cuff; so nicely graded. Would you post a wrist shot of both? Thanks for sharing!


It depicts a scene from daily life; a woman with 2 sheep, the mountains in the background, a small hut or home, the horse, the sun...will get some arm shots


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## chessmont

Ok some wrist shots. Trying to not include a horrid-looking gouge on my arm from the sharp corner of a medicine cabinet lol


----------



## piosavsfan

chessmont said:


> Ok some wrist shots. Trying to not include a horrid-looking gouge on my arm from the sharp corner of a medicine cabinet lol
> 
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These are gorgeous and look wonderful on you!


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## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> View attachment 4432349
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> 
> Ok a pox on whoever mentioned Garlands in this thread! And I mean this in the nicest way ❤️  I purchased 2 spectacular cuffs from them. One by Cody Hunter called “Inner Beauty” and one amazing cuff by Alice Lister. Hoping I can attach pics as I still can’t using the phone app o am in the ‘online’ app right now.



Congrats on your new bracelets and thanks for sharing with us!  They are both stunners!  I have seen those rainbow style cuffs before and they are so fun but I wasn't aware of the specific artists that worked in this style.  I'll have to keep an eye out for the Listers.  I was thinking the same thing as sdkitty:  I'd love to see a model shot of that Lister cuff both to see how you style it and how far it climbs up your arm!

To answer Essie's questions, the inside of the silver cuff depicts a scene of Navajo daily life.  The structure in the center made of logs is a hogan.  To it's right is a woman weaving a rug on a loom, and sheep on the left as sheep herding is an important part of Navajo life.  And, as you said, monument valley style rock formations in the background.  This style of bracelet is really cool and often referred to as a "storyteller cuff."  I love the whole bracelet but I actually think I like the inside better than the outside of this one!  And the stones in the Lister cuff are spiny oyster.  

Oh, and chessmont, I'm a big fan of your husband!


----------



## essiedub

chessmont said:


> Ok some wrist shots. Trying to not include a horrid-looking gouge on my arm from the sharp corner of a medicine cabinet lol
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Just awesome! it really looks great on.  I love the storyteller secret inside.  Thank you for indulging us 
(No thanks for showing another cool thing that I didn't know I needed)


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## essiedub

Well I had to go search Cody Hunter  at the Garland's site.. 

_Cody Hunter’s bracelets are based on the traditional concept of “Walking In Inner Beauty.”  The Navajo say, “If you judge someone from the outside you will miss their inner beauty.” 
_
I love that saying. and now, I want one of those secret interior cuffs


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## Compass Rose

absolutely gorgeous, chessmont!  Just beautiful and I love the story that it tells!


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## Compass Rose

Well....as long as we are modeling our wrists today, here is a heavy gauge copper and silver bracelet that I was so excited to purchase at the Indian Market in Santa Fe in about 2013.  The artist is Ronnie Hurley and he started to work with copper just about the time I purchased this bracelet.  When I bought it, the copper was as shiney as a brand new penny and when I saw him the next year, he was glad that I just let it do its own thing and let it patina at will.  If you see any cat hairs in these close ups, just remember that they are love sprinkles.


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## Compass Rose

sdkitty said:


> I have three small bracelets that I always stack - a spiny oyster one and two jennifer curtis bracelets -  a turquoise row and a gold/silver one.  I never stack larger bracelets.


sdkitty........we are modeling today.......


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## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> Well....as long as we are modeling our wrists today, here is a heavy gauge copper and silver bracelet that I was so excited to purchase at the Indian Market in Santa Fe in about 2013.  The artist is Ronnie Hurley and he started to work with copper just about the time I purchased this bracelet.  When I bought it, the copper was as shiney as a brand new penny and when I saw him the next year, he was glad that I just let it do its own thing and let it patina at will.  If you see any cat hairs in these close ups, just remember that they are love sprinkles.
> 
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Wow gorgeous!  On you as well!  This is something that I have not seen before, just beautiful.


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## chessmont

essiedub said:


> Wow! I love the secret interior cuff! What does it depict? I think I see monument valley? It’s so very cool and modern on the outside. What are the various stones on the rainbow cuff; so nicely graded. Would you post a wrist shot of both? Thanks for sharing!


I am not an expert on stones so I cannot really tell you what they all are.  I bet some of the expert collectors here can.


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## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> Well....as long as we are modeling our wrists today, here is a heavy gauge copper and silver bracelet that I was so excited to purchase at the Indian Market in Santa Fe in about 2013.  The artist is Ronnie Hurley and he started to work with copper just about the time I purchased this bracelet.  When I bought it, the copper was as shiney as a brand new penny and when I saw him the next year, he was glad that I just let it do its own thing and let it patina at will.  If you see any cat hairs in these close ups, just remember that they are love sprinkles.
> 
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This is so cool!  Is your wedding set rose gold?  It matches perfectly!  I also like the pottery in the background.


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## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> I am not an expert on stones so I cannot really tell you what they all are.  I bet some of the expert collectors here can.



I'm fairly sure it's spiny oyster, turquoise, lapis, and maybe sugalite?  Not sure if the purple is sugalite or spiny oyster.


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## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> Wow gorgeous!  On you as well!  This is something that I have not seen before, just beautiful.


Thank you...you all inspired me to wear it today!


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## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> This is so cool!  Is your wedding set rose gold?  It matches perfectly!  I also like the pottery in the background.


Ahhh...thank you, OrbitOrange..  My set is, in fact rose gold.  I have found that mixing a matching rose gold stack rings is a fun thing to do, so I am always changing things up.  My husband and I are so much in love with everything southwest, that the closest thing we can come to being there is living in southwest Florida, lol.....our decor isn't exactly Floridian.


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## Compass Rose

I just want to say that I have learned so much just from participating in this wonderful thread.  There are so many stories that are told and untold in just about every single piece here.  I have gone back several times to the very first page just to admire every single piece.  I don't know if I said this before, but I have told my husband many times over that if we ever moved to New Mexico or Arizona, I would be in deep, deep trouble because I would want to have it all.


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## OrbitOrange

I actually wasn't wearing my Native American jewelry today but you guys inspired me to throw together a little stack.  Since we are wrist modeling today and all....


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## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> Ahhh...thank you, OrbitOrange..  My set is, in fact rose gold.  I have found that mixing a matching rose gold stack rings is a fun thing to do, so I am always changing things up.  My husband and I are so much in love with everything southwest, that the closest thing we can come to being there is living in southwest Florida, lol.....our decor isn't exactly Floridian.



Your decor is so southwestern that I was wondering if you lived there. I love it!  For the southwest, southwest Florida, or anywhere.


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## SWlife

chessmont said:


> Ok some wrist shots. Trying to not include a horrid-looking gouge on my arm from the sharp corner of a medicine cabinet lol
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Oh, wow!!!!!


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## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> sdkitty........we are modeling today.......


I couldn't get a modeling shot but here is my stack - Jennifer Curtis turquoise and two-tone with a spiny oyster row bracelet from Oggs Hogan


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## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I'm fairly sure it's spiny oyster, turquoise, lapis, and maybe sugalite?  Not sure if the purple is sugalite or spiny oyster.



The burgundy purple at far left is likely to be purple spiny oyster, which has a reddish cast. The true purple at far right is probably charoite rather than sugilite, bc charoite has wisps of white in it (and is used in some Navajo work). The bright lime green may be variscite. So fun!


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## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> I couldn't get a modeling shot but here is my stack - Jennifer Curtis turquoise and two-tone with a spiny oyster row bracelet from Oggs Hogan
> 
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Gaah, you know I love your Curtis pieces.  I have a very similar JC two-tone; love it. Don't think I'd seen the spiny oyster row bracelet previously--I'm jealous. I really need some spiny oyster in my life.  I fell hard in love with a giant, elongated heart-shape spiny oyster ring by Harry H. Begay, never had the chance to buy one.


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> Gaah, you know I love your Curtis pieces.  I have a very similar JC two-tone; love it. Don't think I'd seen the spiny oyster row bracelet previously--I'm jealous. I really need some spiny oyster in my life.  I fell hard in love with a giant, elongated heart-shape spiny oyster ring by Harry H. Begay, never had the chance to buy one.


I think the spiny oyster is kind of a replacement for coral which is pretty much gone now


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Your decor is so southwestern that I was wondering if you lived there. I love it!  For the southwest, southwest Florida, or anywhere.


I have family who lived in Santa Fe for about 8 years.  My grandmother on my mother's side lived in Phoenix for as long as I can remember and she loved all things native american.  I still have a ring that she bought for me when I was about 10, and I have it tucked away and should wear it.  It is a larger stone, and I am not even sure what it is, but I was thinking maybe carnelian.  I gravitate to those colors.  When we used to visit my grandmother when I was young, I just knew my heart belonged in the west.  I still have time left to actually move there......if I can convince my husband who loves all things water.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Well....as long as we are modeling our wrists today, here is a heavy gauge copper and silver bracelet that I was so excited to purchase at the Indian Market in Santa Fe in about 2013.  The artist is Ronnie Hurley and he started to work with copper just about the time I purchased this bracelet.  When I bought it, the copper was as shiney as a brand new penny and when I saw him the next year, he was glad that I just let it do its own thing and let it patina at will.  If you see any cat hairs in these close ups, just remember that they are love sprinkles.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> View attachment 4432658
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This is really interesting! I did a double take, thinking the white part was molten glass or quartz stone.  And it’s the tooled silver underneath. Very nice! Thank you for showing this beauty! I like the copper contrasted against the silver.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> View attachment 4432772
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> I actually wasn't wearing my Native American jewelry today but you guys inspired me to throw together a little stack.  Since we are wrist modeling today and all....


Nicely done *orbitOrange*! Each piece is different and work so well together. More is more


----------



## essiedub

sdkitty said:


> I couldn't get a modeling shot but here is my stack - Jennifer Curtis turquoise and two-tone with a spiny oyster row bracelet from Oggs Hogan
> 
> 
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Nice combination! Spiny oyster? I thought it was coral..duh. I’m starting to take a second look at the silver also. Is the middle silver bracelet also a Native American piece? If they’re not signed, how could one tell? Do they have certain styles..


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> I have family who lived in Santa Fe for about 8 years.  My grandmother on my mother's side lived in Phoenix for as long as I can remember and she loved all things native american.  I still have a ring that she bought for me when I was about 10, and I have it tucked away and should wear it.  It is a larger stone, and I am not even sure what it is, but I was thinking maybe carnelian.  I gravitate to those colors.  When we used to visit my grandmother when I was young, I just knew my heart belonged in the west.  I still have time left to actually move there......if I can convince my husband who loves all things water.


They have running water in the Southwest. But you’d get into a lot of trouble for sure. I’m new at this and spend so much time on the internet sites..if there were physical stores  oh boy.


----------



## dcooney4

I have just discovered this thread. I really am enjoying scrolling through to see all your beautiful pieces. I have a very as well.


----------



## dcooney4

This is my most cherished piece.


----------



## SWlife

dcooney4 said:


> This is my most cherished piece.



Oh that’s gorgeous!!!!


----------



## dcooney4

gacats said:


> Oh that’s gorgeous!!!!


Thanks!


----------



## SWlife

Little story here. 
As a teen and 20- something living in Denver in the 70’s, of course I had my turquoise & coral pieces. 
Forward to my mid-30’s. Full time working mom of toddler boy & infant girl whose husband worked opposite shift so the children only spent 3 hours daily in daycare. 
I’m downstairs nursing baby girl, toddler son had toddled upstairs. I hear a prolonged banging sound, upstairs baby girl & I go to see what my son was doing.... he’d found a hammer and pounded my jewelry into ruin. 
By this point I wasn’t wearing it much. I kept it in a jewelry box and he decided I didn’t like it, I guess. 
Sigh.


----------



## OrbitOrange

gacats said:


> Little story here.
> As a teen and 20- something living in Denver in the 70’s, of course I had my turquoise & coral pieces.
> Forward to my mid-30’s. Full time working mom of toddler boy & infant girl whose husband worked opposite shift so the children only spent 3 hours daily in daycare.
> I’m downstairs nursing baby girl, toddler son had toddled upstairs. I hear a prolonged banging sound, upstairs baby girl & I go to see what my son was doing.... he’d found a hammer and pounded my jewelry into ruin.
> By this point I wasn’t wearing it much. I kept it in a jewelry box and he decided I didn’t like it, I guess.
> Sigh.



Oh NOOOO!  This is heartbreaking.


----------



## OrbitOrange

dcooney4 said:


> This is my most cherished piece.



Beautiful!  Welcome!


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> This is really interesting! I did a double take, thinking the white part was molten glass or quartz stone.  And it’s the tooled silver underneath. Very nice! Thank you for showing this beauty! I like the copper contrasted against the silver.


Thank you, Essie....I am not even sure how much copper this artist used, but in commenting to him about the beauty of the copper at the time I bought it, he said that silver was really getting so expensive that he was trying this technique out.  You actually don't see much of this around, but if you look him up (Ronnie Hurley), he has some overlay pieces in silver that are so beautiful.  He reminded me of the work that Ben Nighthorse does.


----------



## Compass Rose

dcooney4 said:


> I have just discovered this thread. I really am enjoying scrolling through to see all your beautiful pieces. I have a very as well.


Welcome!!!!


----------



## Compass Rose

dcooney4 said:


> This is my most cherished piece.


I love this!!!


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Oh NOOOO!  This is heartbreaking.


Oh, no......memories,though......


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> I have family who lived in Santa Fe for about 8 years.  My grandmother on my mother's side lived in Phoenix for as long as I can remember and she loved all things native american.  I still have a ring that she bought for me when I was about 10, and I have it tucked away and should wear it.  It is a larger stone, and I am not even sure what it is, but I was thinking maybe carnelian.  I gravitate to those colors.  When we used to visit my grandmother when I was young, I just knew my heart belonged in the west.  I still have time left to actually move there......if I can convince my husband who loves all things water.




Maybe Lake Powell area as a compromise?  I've always been drawn to all things southwestern too, even when I was a little kid and had never been there.  I remember one time when I was bored at my grandparents house drawing basically promotional flyers for Arizona with highlighters.  Obsessed with a place I had never been!  Someone should have gotten me a subscription to Arizona Highways magazine.  I also remember another time I was bored because my mom and grandmother had dragged me to a jewelry store, and I told them they were boring and materialistic and I would never be obsessed with jewelry.  Ha, the irony, my mom still brings that up.  But it hadn't occurred to me yet that I could combine jewelry with my love of the southwest.


----------



## sdkitty

essiedub said:


> Nice combination! Spiny oyster? I thought it was coral..duh. I’m starting to take a second look at the silver also. Is the middle silver bracelet also a Native American piece? If they’re not signed, how could one tell? Do they have certain styles..


the two tone bracelet in the middle and the turquoise one are both by Jennifer Curtis.  They are signed.  The spiny oyster one is by Don Lucas (also signed).  Jennifer is the daughter of Thomas Curtis, a pretty well known Navajo artist.  She produces everything herself I think.  Don Lucas I'm not sure about.  There seems to be a lot of his stuff around.  I think looking at the website he may have started on his own but maybe has other people working for him now.  
Most of my NA jewelry is from Oggs Hogan.  I know he is reputable and knows what he's talking about so I guess I don't really have to be able to tell 
However that being said, I also have a beautiful larger turquoise bracelet that is signed.  I don't know who the artist is.  Jeff at Oggs looked at it, was impressed with it and didn't recognize the artist's stamp. He thought it was old.  The person who sold it to me said it was new.   So sometimes you can just get something you like and it doesn't matter.


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## essiedub

dcooney4 said:


> This is my most cherished piece.


Welcome to this addictive thread *dcooney4*. Wow! This is quite spectacular! You simply must do a modeling shot.please?!  Tell us more


----------



## sdkitty

gacats said:


> Little story here.
> As a teen and 20- something living in Denver in the 70’s, of course I had my turquoise & coral pieces.
> Forward to my mid-30’s. Full time working mom of toddler boy & infant girl whose husband worked opposite shift so the children only spent 3 hours daily in daycare.
> I’m downstairs nursing baby girl, toddler son had toddled upstairs. I hear a prolonged banging sound, upstairs baby girl & I go to see what my son was doing.... he’d found a hammer and pounded my jewelry into ruin.
> By this point I wasn’t wearing it much. I kept it in a jewelry box and he decided I didn’t like it, I guess.
> Sigh.


Oh


----------



## essiedub

gacats said:


> Little story here.
> As a teen and 20- something living in Denver in the 70’s, of course I had my turquoise & coral pieces.
> Forward to my mid-30’s. Full time working mom of toddler boy & infant girl whose husband worked opposite shift so the children only spent 3 hours daily in daycare.
> I’m downstairs nursing baby girl, toddler son had toddled upstairs. I hear a prolonged banging sound, upstairs baby girl & I go to see what my son was doing.... he’d found a hammer and pounded my jewelry into ruin.
> By this point I wasn’t wearing it much. I kept it in a jewelry box and he decided I didn’t like it, I guess.
> Sigh.



Oh  I am traumatized. Have you told him?


----------



## essiedub

sdkitty said:


> the two tone bracelet in the middle and the turquoise one are both by Jennifer Curtis.  They are signed.  The spiny oyster one is by Don Lucas (also signed).  Jennifer is the daughter of Thomas Curtis, a pretty well known Navajo artist.  She produces everything herself I think.  Don Lucas I'm not sure about.  There seems to be a lot of his stuff around.  I think looking at the website he may have started on his own but maybe has other people working for him now.
> Most of my NA jewelry is from Oggs Hogan.  I know he is reputable and knows what he's talking about so I guess I don't really have to be able to tell
> However that being said, I also have a beautiful larger turquoise bracelet that is signed.  I don't know who the artist is.  Jeff at Oggs looked at it, was impressed with it and didn't recognize the artist's stamp. He thought it was old.  The person who sold it to me said it was new.   So *sometimes you can just get something you like and it doesn't matter.*



  Yes that is the right approach in the end. Jewelry (like art) is both an intellectual and emotional pursuit..if one doesn’t like it, it’s not worn..so in the parlance of Marie Kondo, it must spark joy
Thank you


----------



## OrbitOrange

sdkitty said:


> the two tone bracelet in the middle and the turquoise one are both by Jennifer Curtis.  They are signed.  The spiny oyster one is by Don Lucas (also signed).  Jennifer is the daughter of Thomas Curtis, a pretty well known Navajo artist.  She produces everything herself I think.  Don Lucas I'm not sure about.  There seems to be a lot of his stuff around.  I think looking at the website he may have started on his own but maybe has other people working for him now.
> Most of my NA jewelry is from Oggs Hogan.  I know he is reputable and knows what he's talking about so I guess I don't really have to be able to tell
> However that being said, I also have a beautiful larger turquoise bracelet that is signed.  I don't know who the artist is.  Jeff at Oggs looked at it, was impressed with it and didn't recognize the artist's stamp. He thought it was old.  The person who sold it to me said it was new.   So sometimes you can just get something you like and it doesn't matter.



Don Lucas is actually Anglo.  If I'm remembering correctly, I think he learned the craft from Native Americans.  These are all three beautiful bracelets.  You've totally sold me on Oggs Hogan; I hope I can get  there one day.  Have you posted the large signed turquoise bracelet?  We would love to see that one!


----------



## sdkitty

OrbitOrange said:


> Don Lucas is actually Anglo.  If I'm remembering correctly, I think he learned the craft from Native Americans.  These are all three beautiful bracelets.  You've totally sold me on Oggs Hogan; I hope I can get  there one day.  Have you posted the large signed turquoise bracelet?  We would love to see that one!


Yes, if you can get to Oggs Hogan go.  I imagine Jeff will run it until he dies.  He's probably in his 70's.

here's a picture I posted on a turquoise thread.....I'm not the best photographer but anyway


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Maybe Lake Powell area as a compromise?  I've always been drawn to all things southwestern too, even when I was a little kid and had never been there.  I remember one time when I was bored at my grandparents house drawing basically promotional flyers for Arizona with highlighters.  Obsessed with a place I had never been!  Someone should have gotten me a subscription to Arizona Highways magazine.  I also remember another time I was bored because my mom and grandmother had dragged me to a jewelry store, and I told them they were boring and materialistic and I would never be obsessed with jewelry.  Ha, the irony, my mom still brings that up.  But it hadn't occurred to me yet that I could combine jewelry with my love of the southwest.


Oh...my gosh!!  My grandmother would send me Arizona Highway and Arizona Sunset magazines all the time and I would read them and reread them...[emoji4][emoji4]  My art projects in school always involved sunsets and cacti.  Haha....the nuns who taught me art always asked me why I chose cacti and desert scenes when we lived in the frozen north of Michigan....you brought back memories for me!!!![emoji5] [emoji5] [emoji5]


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> I just want to say that I have learned so much just from participating in this wonderful thread.  There are so many stories that are told and untold in just about every single piece here.  I have gone back several times to the very first page just to admire every single piece.  I don't know if I said this before, but I have told my husband many times over that if we ever moved to New Mexico or Arizona, I would be in deep, deep trouble because I would want to have it all.


Me  too, Compass Rose, me, too!


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> Oh...my gosh!!  My grandmother would send me Arizona Highway and Arizona Sunset magazines all the time and I would read them and reread them...[emoji4][emoji4]  My art projects in school always involved sunsets and cacti.  Haha....the nuns who taught me art always asked me why I chose cacti and desert scenes when we lived in the frozen north of Michigan....you brought back memories for me!!!![emoji5] [emoji5] [emoji5]



I, too was raised by nuns in  Michigan! (well raised by parents but the nuns definitely ran the show tightly at school!)


----------



## dcooney4

gacats said:


> Little story here.
> As a teen and 20- something living in Denver in the 70’s, of course I had my turquoise & coral pieces.
> Forward to my mid-30’s. Full time working mom of toddler boy & infant girl whose husband worked opposite shift so the children only spent 3 hours daily in daycare.
> I’m downstairs nursing baby girl, toddler son had toddled upstairs. I hear a prolonged banging sound, upstairs baby girl & I go to see what my son was doing.... he’d found a hammer and pounded my jewelry into ruin.
> By this point I wasn’t wearing it much. I kept it in a jewelry box and he decided I didn’t like it, I guess.
> Sigh.


Oh no!


----------



## SWlife

Well, I guess now I have a reason to carefully replace a couple of pieces.


----------



## chessmont

I went to Indian Market only once, in 1989 I think.  It seemed to be when Ray Tracy was still doing a lot of cool work.  I bought the squash blossom inlay necklace, and 3 pairs of earrings, one for my MIL (I'm sure she didn't wear them much, in retrospect didn't seem to be her style) one pair for my mom which she adored and treasured until she died.  They 'went' with everything they were inlay fairly simple and not a lot of colors.  I bought a large colorful pair for me.  They weren't dangly, but post earrings.  Actually, I think they look dated now, kind of '80s (how could that possibly be?) I have my mom's and mine.  I looked at a website of Ray Tracy's - meh.  Not much interesting and I bet he shops out a lot to probably in-house artisans.  I think I saw a quote that his eyes are not as good as when he was yoiu8ng, to be able to do the kind of inlay he used to.

Oh, and shopping at a table right next to me was Goldie Hawn!  Very thin, very flat (no curves), and very sun-worn.  And that was 30 years ago!  I hope she started to stay out of the sun!


----------



## jellyv

dcooney4 said:


> This is my most cherished piece.


Tell us more about this!


----------



## dcooney4

jellyv said:


> Tell us more about this!


I really don’t know much about the piece . I can show you the markings on the back . I saw three beautiful necklaces in this shape each was very different. I showed it to my Dh . We were at a red hawk native Americans festival. He bought and surprised with it. He did not get the info on it though.


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> I, too was raised by nuns in  Michigan! (well raised by parents but the nuns definitely ran the show tightly at school!)


Well....that was a whole nother life....lol.... I am glad I turned out so well.


----------



## Compass Rose

dcooney4 said:


> I really don’t know much about the piece . I can show you the markings on the back . I saw three beautiful necklaces in this shape each was very different. I showed it to my Dh . We were at a red hawk native Americans festival. He bought and surprised with it. He did not get the info on it though.


That is a spectacular surprise!  It's gorgeous!


----------



## dcooney4

Compass Rose said:


> That is a spectacular surprise!  It's gorgeous!


Thanks! I was delighted .


----------



## dcooney4

I went back to the festival a few times but never saw another piece like it . I did pick up this Kokopelli another time. I love spiny oyster so I picked it up.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Has anyone ever been to the Tuscon Gem Show?  I've never been but kind of want to go.  For anyone that's not familiar with it, I'll explain what I know:  It takes place in Tuscon AZ over approximately the first two weeks of February.  It started out as just a single large gem and mineral show but has grown since then.  Now there are something like 50 different shows all over town.  Most are free to get in although the original one does charge a small admission.  They sell gems, rocks, and minerals at the various shows, but jewelry as well, and I've heard there's a ton of Native American jewelry.  Anyway, I'd love to go, but don't know that much about it.  It seems kind of overwhelming--I wouldn't even know where to find all the shows or how to plan it.  I think you just walk around town and there are vendors and shows literally everywhere.  If any of you guys have been I would love to hear your thoughts and advice.


----------



## essiedub

chessmont said:


> I went to Indian Market only once, in 1989 I think.  It seemed to be when Ray Tracy was still doing a lot of cool work.  I bought the squash blossom inlay necklace, and 3 pairs of earrings, one for my MIL (I'm sure she didn't wear them much, in retrospect didn't seem to be her style) one pair for my mom which she adored and treasured until she died.  They 'went' with everything they were inlay fairly simple and not a lot of colors.  I bought a large colorful pair for me.  They weren't dangly, but post earrings.  Actually, I think they look dated now, kind of '80s (how could that possibly be?) I have my mom's and mine.  I looked at a website of Ray Tracy's - meh.  Not much interesting and I bet he shops out a lot to probably in-house artisans.  I think I saw a quote that his eyes are not as good as when he was yoiu8ng, to be able to do the kind of inlay he used to.
> 
> Oh, and shopping at a table right next to me was Goldie Hawn!  Very thin, very flat (no curves), and very sun-worn.  And that was 30 years ago!  I hope she started to stay out of the sun!



What/where is this Indian market? 
Please post these Ray Tracy pieces! We’d love to see; bonus points for modeling shot wasn’t he an actor?


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Has anyone ever been to the Tuscon Gem Show?  I've never been but kind of want to go.  For anyone that's not familiar with it, I'll explain what I know:  It takes place in Tuscon AZ over approximately the first two weeks of February.  It started out as just a single large gem and mineral show but has grown since then.  Now there are something like 50 different shows all over town.  Most are free to get in although the original one does charge a small admission.  They sell gems, rocks, and minerals at the various shows, but jewelry as well, and I've heard there's a ton of Native American jewelry.  Anyway, I'd love to go, but don't know that much about it.  It seems kind of overwhelming--I wouldn't even know where to find all the shows or how to plan it.  I think you just walk around town and there are vendors and shows literally everywhere.  If any of you guys have been I would love to hear your thoughts and advice.



I too would like to know..
I will meet you there *OrbitOrange*!  You can be the voice of reason and hold me back, right?


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Has anyone ever been to the Tuscon Gem Show?  I've never been but kind of want to go.  For anyone that's not familiar with it, I'll explain what I know:  It takes place in Tuscon AZ over approximately the first two weeks of February.  It started out as just a single large gem and mineral show but has grown since then.  Now there are something like 50 different shows all over town.  Most are free to get in although the original one does charge a small admission.  They sell gems, rocks, and minerals at the various shows, but jewelry as well, and I've heard there's a ton of Native American jewelry.  Anyway, I'd love to go, but don't know that much about it.  It seems kind of overwhelming--I wouldn't even know where to find all the shows or how to plan it.  I think you just walk around town and there are vendors and shows literally everywhere.  If any of you guys have been I would love to hear your thoughts and advice.


I have a very good friend who goes at least every three years or so.  She has has a small gallery in a small northern Michigan town and her focus is on petoskey stones, Michigan agates and other natural stones which she artfully bezel sets them into rings, necklaces, bracelets, etc.  The reason I say this is because there are so many vendors there who sell everything on the planet, you cannot see everything in two days.  She loves going, and it is very, very busy.  She can come home with tons of beads and stones to set.  The prices are the best, which is why she makes the trip.  I can only imagine the turquoise stones that can be bought there.  If I lived close, I would make the trip and get there by 6am and camp by the gate.


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> What/where is this Indian market?
> Please post these Ray Tracy pieces! We’d love to see; bonus points for modeling shot wasn’t he an actor?


Indian Market in downtown Santa Fe, held the 3rd weekend in August.  OMG...I cannot believe the amount of work that goes into it only to be set up for 2 days.  The town just explodes and it is electrifying!  We'd get there at about 6:30 am because the parking was much more available to us.  I want to go back.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Indian Market in downtown Santa Fe, held the 3rd weekend in August.  OMG...I cannot believe the amount of work that goes into it only to be set up for 2 days.  The town just explodes and it is electrifying!  We'd get there at about 6:30 am because the parking was much more available to us.  I want to go back.


Whoa this sounds so awesome! Thank you! We should have a TPF meetup there


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Whoa this sounds so awesome! Thank you! We should have a TPF meetup there



It is really cool.  I went in 2017 and I'm going again this year--so excited!  If anyone else is going it would definitely be fun to meet up. The show itself is a judged and juried competition and the artists are carefully selected.  People line up at the tents of their favorite artists for the right to buy first.  But the week leading up to it is Native Arts Week and there are a bunch of other shows and events throughout town.  Like Compass says it really takes over Santa Fe.  Because it's a relatively small town and Indian Market can be so popular it can be hard to find a place to stay.  Hotels book up a few years in advance or else give priority for the next year to their current year's customers.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> I too would like to know..
> I will meet you there *OrbitOrange*!  You can be the voice of reason and hold me back, right?



Yes let's do it!  I will be your enabler.....err......voice of reason.



Compass Rose said:


> I have a very good friend who goes at least every three years or so.  She has has a small gallery in a small northern Michigan town and her focus is on petoskey stones, Michigan agates and other natural stones which she artfully bezel sets them into rings, necklaces, bracelets, etc.  The reason I say this is because there are so many vendors there who sell everything on the planet, you cannot see everything in two days.  She loves going, and it is very, very busy.  She can come home with tons of beads and stones to set.  The prices are the best, which is why she makes the trip.  I can only imagine the turquoise stones that can be bought there.  If I lived close, I would make the trip and get there by 6am and camp by the gate.



Thanks for the info!  Yes, I have heard it is so overwhelming you can't possibly see it all.  Sounds fun though.  I bet you could get some amazing turquoise cabs as well as jewelry.


----------



## jellyv

I've been interested in getting to the Tucscon show for quite a while. It sounds incredibly vast. So much business is done there $$$$ . Well, it could be a great option for the Feb. winter blues sometime.

About Indian Market, I have mixed feelings about whether I'd like it. On the one hand, I'm extremely interested in the antiques shows going on then, where the dealers of the rarest and oldest things have their goods.  At least educationally that would be thrilling.  And meeting all those living artists would be amazing. But I'm not much for crowd density or buying at the highest possible price an artist would charge, which is what I expect for IM. Hmm.

I'll be in Santa Fe and Taos in Sept. and do my damage then.


----------



## SWlife

I went to SF Indian Market about 4 years ago I think. I enjoyed looking at things but to me, it was so hectic and geared toward the big $$ spenders that I got overwhelmed. 
I’m glad I went but been there, done that. Not interested in going again. 
I went to an Indian Market in ABQ a few years ago. I believe it was the first year and it was very small and manageable. I met a darling potter who was very kind and funny. I really enjoyed that one. I have no idea if ABQ was able to build into a yearly market or not.


----------



## Bagmedic

I used to travel on business to New Mexico and loved it and the jewelry.  Boy, I miss those days!  Going to Santa Fe, Taos and other places all paid for by the company!


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> I've been interested in getting to the Tucscon show for quite a while. It sounds incredibly vast. So much business is done there $$$$ . Well, it could be a great option for the Feb. winter blues sometime.
> 
> About Indian Market, I have mixed feelings about whether I'd like it. On the one hand, I'm extremely interested in the antiques shows going on then, where the dealers of the rarest and oldest things have their goods.  At least educationally that would be thrilling.  And meeting all those living artists would be amazing. But I'm not much for crowd density or buying at the highest possible price an artist would charge, which is what I expect for IM. Hmm.
> 
> I'll be in Santa Fe and Taos in Sept. and do my damage then.


I have heard the market referred to as "Indian Markups"...but in any event, it is electric just being there.


----------



## OrbitOrange

When I went to Indian Market in 2017 I didn't find much that I was actually interested in purchasing.  Prices are on the higher end, although on the second day a lot of artists are trying to get rid of what they didn't sell the first day so prices go down.  But a lot of things are "major items" so even if the price is good it is still $$$.  The other issue for me what that I found overall things were very contemporary in style, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with, but I tend to gravitate towards more traditional designs.  I also know that there has been some drama in recent years as far as artists that have shown at Indian Market for years and have come to depend on the income they receive from it not being accepted.  They have also switched to an online application process which has been a barrier for some.  So I do have mixed feelings about that, and I wonder if this shift in accepted artists has favored those with more contemporary art styles.  Last year Gregory Schaaf (well known Native arts scholar and author) put together an alternative show for artists that were rejected or didn't want to apply to the regular Market.  

All that being said I had a great time and just loved the way Santa Fe came alive with people in the streets, the opportunity to meet artists, Native bands and dancers on the plaza, ect.  And I hadn't realized about all the associated shows and events in town leading up to the weekend, so I missed a lot of that stuff and felt I didn't "do it right."  I didn't know about the antique art show, and this year I am as or more excited about that as actual Indian Market.  Probably everything will be out of my price range, but maybe I can find something, and as jellyv said at the very least it will be a fun learning experience. So I'm excited to go back to Indian Market and dig a little deeper this time.  

A couple more fun things:  everyone is all decked out in their southwestern finest, so it is really fun to see from a people watching perspective.  And remember how I said sometimes I feel like I'm going overboard with my turquoise and silver?  Well, not there.  
Total license to go crazy and wear it all.  And, I'm not gonna lie, I love the food in Santa Fe and I'm totally excited to stuff my face.


----------



## BigPurseSue

OrbitOrange said:


> I also know that there has been some drama in recent years as far as artists that have shown at Indian Market for years and have come to depend on the income they receive from it not being accepted.  They have also switched to an online application process which has been a barrier for some.  So I do have mixed feelings about that, and I wonder if this shift in accepted artists has favored those with more contemporary art styles.  Last year Gregory Schaaf (well known Native arts scholar and author) put together an alternative show for artists that were rejected or didn't want to apply to the regular Market.



This happened to the annual summer art show in our town and one wonders if it's the natural progression for all art shows. After many successful years the managing committee changed the application process to admit only artists with very high-end art. Glass, pottery, sculpture that sells for thousands of dollars mostly to the wealthy or corporations looking for office art. They cut out the artists that sell jewelry, quilts, prints, clothing, etc. to the rest of us. There was an alternative show organized to run nearby but it never attracted the range, caliber and diversity of artists that the old art show did. A great loss.


----------



## SWlife

OrbitOrange said:


> And, I'm not gonna lie, I love the food in Santa Fe and I'm totally excited to stuff my face.



My very favorite Mexican food is Northern New Mexican style. When we’re in NM, it “Christmas “ at every meal!


----------



## Compass Rose

[QUOTE="OrbitOrange, post: 33115430, member: 668396"

A couple more fun things:  everyone is all decked out in their southwestern finest, so it is really fun to see from a people watching perspective.  And remember how I said sometimes I feel like I'm going overboard with my turquoise and silver?  Well, not there. 
Total license to go crazy and wear it all.  And, I'm not gonna lie, I love the food in Santa Fe and I'm totally excited to stuff my face.[/QUOTE]
Yes...there is so much more to do while at the Market....especially the food!  ...Like the Shed and dining at La Fonda and shopping at eating in the Railyard District.  I agree...a lot of contemporary jewelry and art.  But, the stores have it all, too.  I can't afford Samsville, but I absolutely love to see and touch their $4,000 turquoise necklaces all piled on top of one another like it was a dime store.


----------



## SWlife

Compass Rose said:


> [QUOTE="OrbitOrange, post: 33115430, member: 668396"
> 
> A couple more fun things:  everyone is all decked out in their southwestern finest, so it is really fun to see from a people watching perspective.  And remember how I said sometimes I feel like I'm going overboard with my turquoise and silver?  Well, not there.
> Total license to go crazy and wear it all.  And, I'm not gonna lie, I love the food in Santa Fe and I'm totally excited to stuff my face.


Yes...there is so much more to do while at the Market....especially the food!  ...Like the Shed and dining at La Fonda and shopping at eating in the Railyard District.  I agree...a lot of contemporary jewelry and art.  But, the stores have it all, too.  I can't afford Samsville, but I absolutely love to see and touch their $4,000 turquoise necklaces all piled on top of one another like it was a dime store.  [/QUOTE]

The Shed’s fresh mushroom soup is tdf!


----------



## OrbitOrange

Do you guys want to see the bracelet I'm lusting over from the show that's in town this weekend? Of course you do.  I probably won't get it because it's not cheap and I'm trying to be good, at least till I go out west this summer.  But I'm tempted.

It was signed but I don't remember the artist; it was someone I didn't recognize. It was thick, heavy silver, and near flawless coral cabs.  And the cabs went all the way to the edges of the cuff.  So nice.


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Do you guys want to see the bracelet I'm lusting over from the show that's in town this weekend? Of course you do.  I probably won't get it because it's not cheap and I'm trying to be good, at least till I go out west this summer.  But I'm tempted.
> 
> It was signed but I don't remember the artist; it was someone I didn't recognize. It was thick, heavy silver, and near flawless coral cabs.  And the cabs went all the way to the edges of the cuff.  So nice.
> 
> View attachment 4436333


Stunning!!  I feel your pain.......


----------



## jellyv

Do. Not. Hesitate![emoji254][emoji106][emoji106]


----------



## Compass Rose

Here is a picture of me ready to be seen in Santa Fe!

....just kidding....this is from Samsville in Santa Fe, though.


----------



## Compass Rose

Hmmmmm.....trying again!


----------



## SWlife

Compass Rose said:


> Here is a picture of me ready to be seen in Santa Fe!
> 
> ....just kidding....this is from Samsville in Santa Fe, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4436698



I’m just picturing trying to get this stuff off to get thru airport security.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Do you guys want to see the bracelet I'm lusting over from the show that's in town this weekend? Of course you do.  I probably won't get it because it's not cheap and I'm trying to be good, at least till I go out west this summer.  But I'm tempted.
> 
> It was signed but I don't remember the artist; it was someone I didn't recognize. It was thick, heavy silver, and near flawless coral cabs.  And the cabs went all the way to the edges of the cuff.  So nice.
> 
> View attachment 4436333



Uh now that you’ve slept on it..whadya think? Still want it? Cuz I woke up thinking of it. The color is so intense. Do you think it would be easy to find another like this? I think buy it while you can especially Quality pieces. BUT me thinks it needs companions   Erm.. if you look at “*CompassRose” *below, you’ll see how “_she” is _stacking a very similar coral cuff! I think you can buy this and then during your trip (or before), find a bunch of additional cuffs to stack



Compass Rose said:


> Here is a picture of me ready to be seen in Santa Fe!
> 
> ....just kidding....this is from Samsville in Santa Fe, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4436698



_“You”_ look fantastic *CompassRose*! I just saved the photograph for styling inspiration.  Do people really dress up like this during Indian Market? Gosh the people watching would be something!  I am just eying the colors..wow! Going to have to revisit coral earrings and figure out how to make it work on me maybe more color all around with necklaces etc.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Uh now that you’ve slept on it..whadya think? Still want it? Cuz I woke up thinking of it. The color is so intense. Do you think it would be easy to find another like this? I think buy it while you can especially Quality pieces.



Yeah, still want it now that I've slept on it.  I don't know that it would be easy to find another one exactly like it, although I might be able to if I had been smart enough to write down the artist.  But similar things are out there.  Part of me just wants to snap everything up I like in coral because it's rare and getting rarer.  The problem is I have a huge running wishlist of things I want online and I have my trip coming up too.  Ugh, I just want it all.  This show is coming back to town in the fall, I might get the bracelet then if it hasn't sold and I wasn't too bad out west.

Here's another one I'm dying for from the same show.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Yeah, still want it now that I've slept on it.  I don't know that it would be easy to find another one exactly like it, although I might be able to if I had been smart enough to write down the artist.  But similar things are out there.  Part of me just wants to snap everything up I like in *coral because it's rare and getting rarer*.  The problem is I have a huge running wishlist of things I want online and I have my trip coming up too.  Ugh, I just want it all.  This show is coming back to town in the fall, I might get the bracelet then if it hasn't sold and I wasn't too bad out west.
> 
> Here's another one I'm dying for from the same show.
> 
> View attachment 4437300



ok you're in trouble but of a good kind! The coral rarity is reason alone to get it.  As you know, I've been scouring the internet daily looking and learning and based on _my very small sampling space_, I have not seen much coral ..much less ones that are that intense in color.  Ask yourself, if you showed up today and it was sold, would you be crushed?  because there is no remedy for regret and you will search high and low to find it again. Therefore, why wait?  It's just money..if you can spare it. As I tell everyone, money has no utility until you spend it (unless you love looking at a rising bank account balance and that's a legitimate, albeit strange, hobby). It's good to have a wishlist..there's nothing worse than having the money and having nothing to buy.

I've said enough. I'm no help. I say get it. and the earrings too


----------



## jellyv

What are they asking for those Dishta earrings? Just curious, not trying to skunk you! Lol


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> What are they asking for those Dishta earrings? Just curious, not trying to skunk you! Lol



They are asking $1015 for them.  I am not as "up on" what this stuff goes for as you, but it seems pricey to me.  They might come down a little if you were going to make a serious offer, I didn't try.  But I didn't get the impression they would come down much.


----------



## Compass Rose

You definitely see it all in Santa Fe during the Indian Market.....I don't think people adorn themselves with everything in their jewelry box every day, but I have seen some jaw dropping "stacks" and such by just sitting on the steps at the cathedral and people-watching during that time.  I love it.  I am not ever going to be that bold, but in a little bit, I will post a couple of stacks that I love to wear, and some of the silver is not native american, but mexican silver.  I love to mix and match pieces.  I think I would just have to have that coral bracelet, OrbitOrange.  The coral color is just so intense and uniform on that piece.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> They are asking $1015 for them.  I am not as "up on" what this stuff goes for as you, but it seems pricey to me. .


Fully agree this is *sky-high* pricing. If I had to guess the high end price for them, I'd say $600 outside. I just don't know how rare this specific configuration is, which could affect the price, but then I also don't know how much of a market there is for Dishta earrings priced this high. Very few buyers, I bet!  (Not moi, for sure).


----------



## sdkitty

jellyv said:


> Fully agree this is *sky-high* pricing. If I had to guess the high end price for them, I'd say $600 outside. I just don't know how rare this specific configuration is, which could affect the price, but then I also don't know how much of a market there is for Dishta earrings priced this high. Very few buyers, I bet!  (Not moi, for sure).


yes coral is scarce but I wouldn't pay that much


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> They are asking $1015 for them.  I am not as "up on" what this stuff goes for as you, but it seems pricey to me.  They might come down a little if you were going to make a serious offer, I didn't try.  But I didn't get the impression they would come down much.



oh.  ugh. that's a bit steep for me and would make me think a bit. Under $500 or preferably under $300, I can be impulsive..that's just me cuz I'm new to this and don't know what I'm doing.   I wish there were more local places where I can touch and feel. Everywhere I go now, I look for little antique shops


----------



## OrbitOrange

sdkitty said:


> yes coral is scarce but I wouldn't pay that much



Just to clarify, that price was for the Dishta earrings, not the coral bracelet.


----------



## jellyv

sdkitty said:


> yes *coral *is scarce but I wouldn't pay that much


EDIT: Oops I just repeated O'O's post. Yeah, about Dishta turquoise earrings.


----------



## sdkitty

OrbitOrange said:


> Just to clarify, that price was for the Dishta earrings, not the coral bracelet.


oh, my mistake


----------



## dcooney4

OrbitOrange said:


> Do you guys want to see the bracelet I'm lusting over from the show that's in town this weekend? Of course you do.  I probably won't get it because it's not cheap and I'm trying to be good, at least till I go out west this summer.  But I'm tempted.
> 
> It was signed but I don't remember the artist; it was someone I didn't recognize. It was thick, heavy silver, and near flawless coral cabs.  And the cabs went all the way to the edges of the cuff.  So nice.
> 
> View attachment 4436333


That is really pretty.


----------



## dcooney4

OrbitOrange said:


> Yeah, still want it now that I've slept on it.  I don't know that it would be easy to find another one exactly like it, although I might be able to if I had been smart enough to write down the artist.  But similar things are out there.  Part of me just wants to snap everything up I like in coral because it's rare and getting rarer.  The problem is I have a huge running wishlist of things I want online and I have my trip coming up too.  Ugh, I just want it all.  This show is coming back to town in the fall, I might get the bracelet then if it hasn't sold and I wasn't too bad out west.
> 
> Here's another one I'm dying for from the same show.
> 
> View attachment 4437300


They are pretty but I could never wear them . The weight would kill my ears.


----------



## essiedub

I have something fun to share! Thanks to this thread, I spied  this little treasure in a local antique shop. It is that Dishta look that *jellyV* and *OrbitOrange* were discussing earlier in the thread. I believe it was an earring that lost its twin and was thus “converted into a pendant 



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Original earring configuration        Source: brownstrading.com


	

		
			
		

		
	
 Looks like they flipped the top “flower” and embedded it into the concentric circles 


	

		
			
		

		
	
  This is the back, where you can see the earring back bump.

It can easily be converted back to the earring configuration (and still be a pendant) with the little “flower” at the top..but this kind of works. What do y’all think?


----------



## chessmont

O M G I had a jewelry disaster yesterday!  I was putting on one of my Squash Blossom necklaces as I wear them even with tees and jeans around town, or even if I stay home.  Suddenly,  Beads went flying everywhere!!!!!  I crawled around on my hands and knees and I am pretty sure I found them all.  I could not see what happened because whenI tried to look, more beads fell off.  I put everything  in a ziplock and ran to the jeweler who had restrung this necklace on a stronger chain than the box chains which are not as strong, (IMO) I think they are more prone to breakage from the shape of the chain after years of being bent a certain way often under some weight.

Apparently, a solder point had broken.  They will of course fix this for me no charge AND I said make sure every single solder joint is solid!  Redo them all if you have to!

What if it had happened out on the street?  I would have just dissolved into a puddle of hysterical tears.

This happened to me once before, also in the bedroom while I was putting it on.  The NA gods must be looking out for me!  That's when I decided to replace all my box chains.  My necklaces are all over 20 years old.

My heart was in my throat!  I thought you folks here would understand my freakout!!!


----------



## essiedub

chessmont said:


> O M G I had a jewelry disaster yesterday!  I was putting on one of my Squash Blossom necklaces as I wear them even with tees and jeans around town, or even if I stay home.  Suddenly,  Beads went flying everywhere!!!!!  I crawled around on my hands and knees and I am pretty sure I found them all.  I could not see what happened because whenI tried to look, more beads fell off.  I put everything  in a ziplock and ran to the jeweler who had restrung this necklace on a stronger chain than the box chains which are not as strong, (IMO)
> 
> Apparently, a solder point had broken.  They will of course fix this for me no charge AND I said make sure every single solder joint is solid!  Redo them all if you have to!
> 
> What if it had happened out on the street?  I would have just dissolved into a puddle of hysterical tears.
> 
> This happened to me once before, also in the bedroom while I was putting it on.  The NA gods must be looking out for me!  That's when I decided to replace all my box chains.  My necklaces are all over 20 years old.
> 
> My heart was in my throat!  I thought you folks here would understand my freakout!!!




Ugh. This is awful indeed! Twice this happened?! Yes I think the NA gods are definitely with you. I think maybe you should get a new chain ..isn’t the traditional “interior” chain something called foxtail ..kinda braided looking? It seems solder points are the weak points.   Anyway, I would like to see your beautiful necklace once restrung..I don't recall seeing it posted 

re: that they both broke at home, I think you are lucky. You should go buy a lottery ticket


----------



## chessmont

I have another recent story, but a good one - I was heading into Office Depot the other day and a woman was running up to me saying, "oh I have to see it!"  I look nervously around and wonder what the hell she is talking about.  Before she gets to me, she says, "I collect them!"  I was wearing one of my Squash Blossoms.  
So we chatted awhile and she said she thought it was (Royston? Is that the one that has a lot of brown and black in it?)  It really didn't strike me as that, but I have a feeling she knew what she was talking about.  She told me she has 30 Squash Blossom necklaces and 40 cuffs.  O M G!  Anyway it was fun chatting with her about the look of the turquoise from different mines, etc.


----------



## chessmont

essiedub said:


> Ugh. This is awful indeed! Twice this happened?! Yes I think the NA gods are definitely with you. I think maybe you should get a new chain ..isn’t the traditional “interior” chain something called foxtail ..kinda braided looking? It seems solder points are the weak points.   Anyway, I would like to see your beautiful necklace once restrung..I don't recall seeing it posted
> 
> re: that they both broke at home, I think you are lucky. You should go buy a lottery ticket



actually I thinking I posted 3 back near the beginning of this thread as well as several cuffs.  I hope you can go back and find them.  I'll have to look up this foxtail chain and maybe suggest it to my jeweler.


----------



## chessmont

essidub, those type of chains do look strong!  I am going to call my jeweler right now - thanks for the suggestion.

Edited to add:

I just spoke with my guy; he says the two they restrung for me are on foxtail chains, but they may not look as thick as the pics I saw online, because they can only use as large as will fit through the bead holes.


----------



## essiedub

chessmont said:


> I have another recent story, but a good one - I was heading into Office Depot the other day and a woman was running up to me saying, "oh I have to see it!"  I look nervously around and wonder what the hell she is talking about.  Before she gets to me, she says, "I collect them!"  I was wearing one of my Squash Blossoms.
> So we chatted awhile and she said she thought it was (Royston? Is that the one that has a lot of brown and black in it?)  It really didn't strike me as that, but I have a feeling she knew what she was talking about.  She told me she has 30 Squash Blossom necklaces and 40 cuffs.  O M G!  Anyway it was fun chatting with her about the look of the turquoise from different mines, etc.




That must have been so awesome! Having this common interest, that is. I’m so glad we have this thread. My DH just thinks I’m a little nuts..wut? Shrug.  I have squash blossom necklace as a wishlist item but think I need to see, touch and try on  these things in person.  I am going to go back through the this thread to look for your necklace!

One day, we’ll need to do one of those TPF meetups somewhere ..like in NM, where we can totally get decked out in all our goodies and talk all things NAJewelry! (And buy more)


----------



## chessmont

I also just looked at all my necklaces- they all look to be on foxtail chains, but some are not that easy for me to see, some are thicker than others and I had to use my reading glasses as it is. When I pick up my other one, I will bring them all in for him to check....


----------



## chessmont

essiedub said:


> That must have been so awesome! Having this common interest, that is. I’m so glad we have this thread. My DH just thinks I’m a little nuts..wut? Shrug.  I have squash blossom necklace as a wishlist item but think I need to see, touch and try on  these things in person.  I am going to go back through the this thread to look for your necklace!
> 
> One day, we’ll need to do one of those TPF meetups somewhere ..like in NM, where we can totally get decked out in all our goodies and talk all things NAJewelry! (And buy more)


I think I posted 3...


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> O M G I had a jewelry disaster yesterday!  I was putting on one of my Squash Blossom necklaces as I wear them even with tees and jeans around town, or even if I stay home.  Suddenly,  Beads went flying everywhere!!!!!  I crawled around on my hands and knees and I am pretty sure I found them all.  I could not see what happened because whenI tried to look, more beads fell off.  I put everything  in a ziplock and ran to the jeweler who had restrung this necklace on a stronger chain than the box chains which are not as strong, (IMO) I think they are more prone to breakage from the shape of the chain after years of being bent a certain way often under some weight.
> 
> Apparently, a solder point had broken.  They will of course fix this for me no charge AND I said make sure every single solder joint is solid!  Redo them all if you have to!
> 
> What if it had happened out on the street?  I would have just dissolved into a puddle of hysterical tears.
> 
> This happened to me once before, also in the bedroom while I was putting it on.  The NA gods must be looking out for me!  That's when I decided to replace all my box chains.  My necklaces are all over 20 years old.
> 
> My heart was in my throat!  I thought you folks here would understand my freakout!!!


I would have died!!!!  And with my luck, I would have been riding a rollercoaster at the time.


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> I would have died!!!!  And with my luck, I would have been riding a rollercoaster at the time.


OMG the thought!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sdkitty

chessmont said:


> O M G I had a jewelry disaster yesterday!  I was putting on one of my Squash Blossom necklaces as I wear them even with tees and jeans around town, or even if I stay home.  Suddenly,  Beads went flying everywhere!!!!!  I crawled around on my hands and knees and I am pretty sure I found them all.  I could not see what happened because whenI tried to look, more beads fell off.  I put everything  in a ziplock and ran to the jeweler who had restrung this necklace on a stronger chain than the box chains which are not as strong, (IMO) I think they are more prone to breakage from the shape of the chain after years of being bent a certain way often under some weight.
> 
> Apparently, a solder point had broken.  They will of course fix this for me no charge AND I said make sure every single solder joint is solid!  Redo them all if you have to!
> 
> What if it had happened out on the street?  I would have just dissolved into a puddle of hysterical tears.
> 
> This happened to me once before, also in the bedroom while I was putting it on.  The NA gods must be looking out for me!  That's when I decided to replace all my box chains.  My necklaces are all over 20 years old.
> 
> My heart was in my throat!  I thought you folks here would understand my freakout!!!


Glad you didn't lose anything....I can't get over you wearing that around the house if you're not going anywhere.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> I have something fun to share! Thanks to this thread, I spied  this little treasure in a local antique shop. It is that Dishta look that *jellyV* and *OrbitOrange* were discussing earlier in the thread. I believe it was an earring that lost its twin and was thus “converted into a pendant
> 
> View attachment 4441806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Original earring configuration        Source: brownstrading.com
> View attachment 4441807
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like they flipped the top “flower” and embedded it into the concentric circles
> View attachment 4441808
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the back, where you can see the earring back bump.
> 
> It can easily be converted back to the earring configuration (and still be a pendant) with the little “flower” at the top..but this kind of works. What do y’all think?



Essie I think this is adorable!  Did you get it?  Definitely Dishta style and probably 50's.  I agree that it is almost certainly an earring that was later converted into a pendant.  Great find!


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Essie I think this is adorable!  Did you get it?  Definitely Dishta style and probably 50's.  I agree that it is almost certainly an earring that was later converted into a pendant.  Great find!


+1
Very sweet!

Chessmont, that sounds like a total nightmare. Glad you have all the parts to reconstitute it! Yeah, foxtail is a fine-scale braided silver chain that is used for stringing silver beads. It isn't any good for natural turquoise, though, would be too abrasive against stones.


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> O M G I had a jewelry disaster yesterday!  I was putting on one of my Squash Blossom necklaces as I wear them even with tees and jeans around town, or even if I stay home.  Suddenly,  Beads went flying everywhere!!!!!  I crawled around on my hands and knees and I am pretty sure I found them all.  I could not see what happened because whenI tried to look, more beads fell off.  I put everything  in a ziplock and ran to the jeweler who had restrung this necklace on a stronger chain than the box chains which are not as strong, (IMO) I think they are more prone to breakage from the shape of the chain after years of being bent a certain way often under some weight.
> 
> Apparently, a solder point had broken.  They will of course fix this for me no charge AND I said make sure every single solder joint is solid!  Redo them all if you have to!
> 
> What if it had happened out on the street?  I would have just dissolved into a puddle of hysterical tears.
> 
> This happened to me once before, also in the bedroom while I was putting it on.  The NA gods must be looking out for me!  That's when I decided to replace all my box chains.  My necklaces are all over 20 years old.
> 
> My heart was in my throat!  I thought you folks here would understand my freakout!!!



I'm so glad this didn't happen to you when you were out and about!  I have heard of it happening before and I do worry about it.  It's disturbing though that you got it restrung specifically to prevent this from happening and the chain still broke.  Does the jeweler you took it to specialize in NA jewelry?  If not, maybe you should take your necklaces to someone who does.  



chessmont said:


> I have another recent story, but a good one - I was heading into Office Depot the other day and a woman was running up to me saying, "oh I have to see it!"  I look nervously around and wonder what the hell she is talking about.  Before she gets to me, she says, "I collect them!"  I was wearing one of my Squash Blossoms.
> So we chatted awhile and she said she thought it was (Royston? Is that the one that has a lot of brown and black in it?)  It really didn't strike me as that, but I have a feeling she knew what she was talking about.  She told me she has 30 Squash Blossom necklaces and 40 cuffs.  O M G!  Anyway it was fun chatting with her about the look of the turquoise from different mines, etc.



It's so fun that you randomly met someone IRL who truly appreciates and understands your NA jewelry.  I always feel like when I am out and about in my stuff no one "gets it" and they probably don't know the difference between what I'm wearing and western inspired costume jewelry.  Oh well.


----------



## OrbitOrange

I had a chance to wear one of my concho belts last night.  I have two--they are both relatively small and understated as concho belts go which makes them a little easier to wear.  I actually rarely wear the one with the turquoise because I'm afraid of banging it up or cracking the stones.  I think these are both fun but I'm dying to get a big honkin' statement belt with huge silver conchos. I'm looking for something "first phase" style, which means that instead of having copper loops soldered onto the back (a later development) the conchos had holes punched in them that the leather fed through.





Link on the history/different types of concho belts if anyone's interested
https://www.garlandsjewelry.com/blogs/news/80431875-a-history-of-navajo-concha-belts

I'd love to see anyone else's concho belts if you have any to post!  I remember seeing a really fun one towards the beginning of this thread.


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I'm so glad this didn't happen to you when you were out and about!  I have heard of it happening before and I do worry about it.  It's disturbing though that you got it restrung specifically to prevent this from happening and the chain still broke.  Does the jeweler you took it to specialize in NA jewelry?  If not, maybe you should take your necklaces to someone who does.
> 
> They don’t specialize in NA jewelry but they did use the right kind of chain it was just solder joint area. I thought before I wear it again I will call Garland ‘s in Sedona to see if they think they should look at it. I really do t know who else to call and I have bought and talked to them before and my gut tells me they know their stuff.
> 
> 
> It's so fun that you randomly met someone IRL who truly appreciates and understands your NA jewelry.  I always feel like when I am out and about in my stuff no one "gets it" and they probably don't know the difference between what I'm wearing and western inspired costume jewelry.  Oh well.


We


OrbitOrange said:


> I'm so glad this didn't happen to you when you were out and about!  I have heard of it happening before and I do worry about it.  It's disturbing though that you got it restrung specifically to prevent this from happening and the chain still broke.  Does the jeweler you took it to specialize in NA jewelry?  If not, maybe you should take your necklaces to someone who does.
> 
> 
> 
> It's so fun that you randomly met someone IRL who truly appreciates and understands your NA jewelry.  I always feel like when I am out and about in my stuff no one "gets it" and they probably don't know the difference between what I'm wearing and western inspired costume jewelry.  Oh well.


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I had a chance to wear one of my concho belts last night.  I have two--they are both relatively small and understated as concho belts go which makes them a little easier to wear.  I actually rarely wear the one with the turquoise because I'm afraid of banging it up or cracking the stones.  I think these are both fun but I'm dying to get a big honkin' statement belt with huge silver conchos. I'm looking for something "first phase" style, which means that instead of having copper loops soldered onto the back (a later development) the conchos had holes punched in them that the leather fed through.
> 
> View attachment 4441991
> View attachment 4441990
> 
> 
> Link on the history/different types of concho belts if anyone's interested
> https://www.garlandsjewelry.com/blogs/news/80431875-a-history-of-navajo-concha-belts
> 
> I'd love to see anyone else's concho belts if you have any to post!  I remember seeing a really fun one towards the beginning of this thread.



Gorgeous!  I have a couple they may be modern but are beautiful. I got them perhaps around 1996. It has been so long since they have fit me but I refuse to get rid of them. There was a point 2011-2014 they fit but oh well you know how it sometimes goes


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> Gorgeous!  I have a couple they may be modern but are beautiful. I got them perhaps around 1996. It has been so long since they have fit me but I refuse to get rid of them. There was a point 2011-2014 they fit but oh well you know how it sometimes goes


 
Post them please!  I'd love to see them.


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> Post them please!  I'd love to see them.


First I'll have to dust them off-literally!  Been hanging in my current closet for almost 20 years LOL


----------



## chessmont

I haven't dusted of the belts yet, but I took a look at the hallmarks on my NA (and some maybe NA) cuffs.  Here are the hallmarks, for you experts to shed some light:

Begay (no first initial) I see this is a known surname for artist(s)
P. Benally (I "think" it's P) (Know this is a surname for artist(s)
"T"  (couldn't find any info on this)
g nelson  (I'm pretty sure it's a "g"  (I found a bit of info)
"LC"  (couldn't find anything on this)
Mark Yazzie (oh yeah!)


----------



## chessmont

I bought this necklace and matching earring s couple weeks ago. I haven’t looked for a hallmark, and don’t even know if made by a NA artist. But I thought it was gorgeous. It is also reversible I’ll take another pic in a minute b


----------



## chessmont

Well IDK where the pic is. I’ll try again.


----------



## chessmont

chessmont said:


> Well IDK where the pic is. I’ll try again.


Haha I guess it’s there or am I seeing things only on my phone? Sorry for 2 pics I thought I only chose 1


----------



## chessmont

Here is the other side


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> I haven't dusted of the belts yet, but I took a look at the hallmarks on my NA (and some maybe NA) cuffs.  Here are the hallmarks, for you experts to shed some light:
> 
> Begay (no first initial) I see this is a known surname for artist(s)
> P. Benally (I "think" it's P) (Know this is a surname for artist(s)
> "T"  (couldn't find any info on this)
> g nelson  (I'm pretty sure it's a "g"  (I found a bit of info)
> "LC"  (couldn't find anything on this)
> Mark Yazzie (oh yeah!)



I looked up these hallmarks in Billie Hougart's book "Native American and Southwest Silver Hallmarks" and found a little bit of information that might be helpful to you.  Generally it's helpful to have a picture of the piece as well as the hallmark, since different artists may have similar hallmarks but work in different styles.  But I don't think it would help me for these specific hallmarks, since I've come up with very little info.  

Begay is a super common Navajo surname.  There's about 7 pages of Begays in Hougart's, although I didn't see any that hallmark just "Begay."  That may be a tough one to identify.  

P. Benally is listed, but there is not a full name.  The only info given is Navajo and stampwork; set stones.  There is also an R. Benally.  

A plain T stamp had listed several potential artists:  Thompon Piaso, Tommy Singer (score!), Rhonda Tahe, Verna Tahe, and Richard Thomas. 

Wasn't able to find a G. Nelson. 

LC also had several potential artists:  Lee Charley, Luciano Chavez, Lee Chee, Louise Clark, Leah Cleveland, and Lorenzo Coriz. 

Mark Yazzie is also in there.  It doesn't give a lot of info, though:  Just Navajo and contemporary silver and gold work.  

Sorry that wasn't terribly helpful, but you may be able to use these names as a jumping off point to google and look for similar work.  Good luck!  Oh, and I'm still patiently awaiting seeing those concho belts....


----------



## essiedub

chessmont said:


> Well IDK where the pic is. I’ll try again.


Are those bears?  I am guessing these are Zuni inlay. Spiny oyster? Not sure which side I like better..think the orange bears  How about you *chessmont*? Nice pieces. I can just glimpse the edge of your earrings in the photos.


----------



## chessmont

essiedub said:


> Are those bears?  I am guessing these are Zuni inlay. Spiny oyster? Not sure which side I like better..think the orange bears  How about you *chessmont*? Nice pieces. I can just glimpse the edge of your earrings in the photos.



I like the inlaid side better but both are beautiful!  Yes, bears.


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I looked up these hallmarks in Billie Hougart's book "Native American and Southwest Silver Hallmarks" and found a little bit of information that might be helpful to you.  Generally it's helpful to have a picture of the piece as well as the hallmark, since different artists may have similar hallmarks but work in different styles.  But I don't think it would help me for these specific hallmarks, since I've come up with very little info.
> 
> Begay is a super common Navajo surname.  There's about 7 pages of Begays in Hougart's, although I didn't see any that hallmark just "Begay."  That may be a tough one to identify.
> 
> P. Benally is listed, but there is not a full name.  The only info given is Navajo and stampwork; set stones.  There is also an R. Benally.
> 
> A plain T stamp had listed several potential artists:  Thompon Piaso, Tommy Singer (score!), Rhonda Tahe, Verna Tahe, and Richard Thomas.
> 
> Wasn't able to find a G. Nelson.
> 
> LC also had several potential artists:  Lee Charley, Luciano Chavez, Lee Chee, Louise Clark, Leah Cleveland, and Lorenzo Coriz.
> 
> Mark Yazzie is also in there.  It doesn't give a lot of info, though:  Just Navajo and contemporary silver and gold work.
> 
> Sorry that wasn't terribly helpful, but you may be able to use these names as a jumping off point to google and look for similar work.  Good luck!  Oh, and I'm still patiently awaiting seeing those concho belts....



Thanks!  I got what little info I found from a website of hallmarks that I believe someone on this thread posted.  I know I should have included the pieces but I was too lazy.  But I found pics online of very similar-looking pieces from Mark Yazzie, and I forget which other.  A chunky coral cuff and an similar style turquoise cuff I posted pics somewhere at the beginning of this thread.  The coral was Yazzie and the turquoise was, I believe the "T"  It was a very plain T, just like you see here in this font.


----------



## chessmont

Ok I took a group pic:

Top row L-R.   P. Benally, T
Second row L-R.  Mark Yazzie, Begay
Third row L-R.  LC,  g Nelson
Fourth row.  E


----------



## chessmont

*


----------



## chessmont

I am having trouble getting text and pictures in the same post!

And of course they have to post on different pages just to make you have ==to go back and forth!


----------



## chessmont

Ok going to try to get the belts in this same post. Not even cleaned up!


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> Well IDK where the pic is. I’ll try again.


I love this!


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> Ok going to try to get the belts in this same post. Not even cleaned up!


What a stunning collection!  I love it.


----------



## Julide

chessmont said:


> *


I would love a coral bracelet!!! Fab collection!!


----------



## chessmont

Thanks, fellow NA fans!  I wish so badly the belts fit (and not just to have the belts fit LOL!)  I have posted earlier in this thread I think all but one of my Squash Blossoms so that's about my entire collection.  None of it except the colorful bears and the 2 cuffs I bought and showed you recently was acquired less than 20+ years ago.  We all know, yes, that one never gets tired of ou rNA pieces.  At least I never do!  Oh wait - I know someone wanted to see the couple of post-style inlay earrings.  I'll get to them if I can find them...

I would love to see the collection of that woman  *who had the collection of 30 necklaces and 40 cuffs.  Sigh I don't know what I did to change the font here...*


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> Ok going to try to get the belts in this same post. Not even cleaned up!



Gorgeous!  I love the belts!  Are they exactly the same except for the leather color?  I often wonder whether I would get more use out of a belt with black or brown leather so it's great to have both options.  The cuffs are great too!  The one on the top right in the first pic, top left in the pic with the belts, appears to have some pyrite in the matrix, which I am always a big fan of.  Morenci is well known for that, although Kingman and other mines can have it as well (I won't embarrass myself as to making a guess here).  Those big pieces of turquoise in that large row bracelet are very impressive as well.  Your new necklace/earrings set is so fun and reminds me a bit of Calvin Begay, although there are lots of other artists who work in a similar style.  Thanks for sharing this awesome collection!


----------



## essiedub

chessmont said:


> Ok going to try to get the belts in this same post. Not even cleaned up!



Great collection *chessmont*! I am finding these concho belts very intriguing. Love all the cuffs. Tell us more about the beaded one. Please and thank you!

Please everyone.. post how you wear those concho belts. I did an image search and it looks like a good way to corral blousy tops without scrunching at waist and feeling all confined...yes?  I have to go back and look at *OrbitOrange’s* post earlier..was that one not on leather?



Julide said:


> I would love a coral bracelet!!! Fab collection!!



Yes I’m sold. I too would like a coral cuff!!


----------



## chessmont

Yes the belts are the same except for color. I can’t even get them around my waist anymore
As to the beaded cuff I swear I have had it for so long I cannot even remember where I got it!


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> I am having trouble getting text and pictures in the same post!
> 
> And of course they have to post on different pages just to make you have ==to go back and forth!


Yeah....me, too....but I think things are going thru a change now.  I had to delete my app and am now using my browser.


----------



## jellyv

So Chessmont, these are treasures for sure. Would you consider getting your concho belts redone on new leather at the correct length for you to wear and enjoy? It's entirely possible, and totally a trad thing to do. The silver can be changed off the existing straps, in short.

Can you tell us more about the exceptionally yummy bracelet with the large oval turquoises w. brown matrix (perhaps Royston)?  Artist, era, how you found it?


----------



## chessmont

jellyv said:


> So Chessmont, these are treasures for sure. Would you consider getting your concho belts redone on new leather at the correct length for you to wear and enjoy? It's entirely possible, and totally a trad thing to do. The silver can be changed off the existing straps, in short.
> 
> Can you tell us more about the exceptionally yummy bracelet with the large oval turquoises w. brown matrix (perhaps Royston)?  Artist, era, how you found it?



Yes I think the belts could definitely redone, as the strap on either end is Attached to the mainepart that has the ponchos.  But I honestly don't want to go to the local cobbler for this, and I wouldn't even know where to start looking.  I would not trust them with the guy I use now, as I doubt he has worked on =anything tis expensive or this intricate thing before.

And no, ladies, I am so sorry I cannot tell you anything about any of my things except the Ray Tracy.  I bought all of it before I knew a thing about NA jewelry, would you believe it?  Most of it I bought at that little storefront I mentioned in this thread that used to be in the square in Sonoma.


----------



## Compass Rose

Here is a picture of two bracelets I have and I stack them all the time with other silver bracelets that I got over decades of travel to Mexico.  The one closest to my hand is a bracelet I bought from Nizhoni Traders in Tucson.  The only hallmark on it is "Arizona" and "Navajo" and Sterling. The second one is a Simplicio that I bought in Santa Fe back in 2005.  Funny thing is, I had it on when I went into Samsville about 2 years ago and the gentleman behind the counter asked me if I knew if my bracelet was made by Dan....but I had no idea at all who made it.  I just liked it!  Anyway, seeing everyone's fabulous treasures makes me happy.  I wish I had a good idea for chessmont's belt...


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> .  The only hallmark on it is "Arizona" and "Navajo" and Sterling. The second one is a Simplicio that I bought in Santa Fe back in 2005.  Funny thing is, I had it on when I went into Samsville about 2 years ago and the gentleman behind the counter asked me if I knew if my bracelet was made by Dan....but I had no idea at all who made it.  .



Lovely!  Don't they look great as a stack. Fyi the Simplicio cuff isn't made by Dan; it's by Carmelita S most likely, or perhaps another family member.  Dan's work is quite different in character,  rare to find and at the high end price wise.  I imagine yours is hallmarked "Simplicio," as Carmelita's work is. What's very "Simplicio" about your piece are the type of the applied silver leaves and the mix of coral and turq. However, those unusual leaves sometimes show up in the work of others.

It takes a lot of connoisseurship to identify true Dan S pieces, or input from the very few people knowledgeable enough to verify. There's a bunch of material that's like it, but not it.


----------



## OrbitOrange

gacats said:


> I’ll be heading to Albuquerque on Saturday the 25th. The only day I’m really going to look at jewelry is on Monday the 27th. And I’m going to be very specific about what I’m searching for- -Navajo pearls. I’ll need to keep myself way under control, because I’m nuts over turquoise.
> I sold off a Bisbee stone  cuff on eBay. I’m partly mad at myself for doing that but the cuff was too large/overpowering for me. Not my style. I just got caught up in the moment.
> I’m more a necklace person. Otherwise I never change out my jewelry. I need to stick with what I wear.
> We used to stay up in Santa Fe each year but since we’re moving to the Albuquerque area in 3 years, we’re trying to familiarize ourselves with the city.



GA cats did you get your beads??


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> Yes I think the belts could definitely redone, as the strap on either end is Attached to the mainepart that has the ponchos.  But I honestly don't want to go to the local cobbler for this, and I wouldn't even know where to start looking.  I would not trust them with the guy I use now, as I doubt he has worked on =anything tis expensive or this intricate thing before.
> 
> And no, ladies, I am so sorry I cannot tell you anything about any of my things except the Ray Tracy.  I bought all of it before I knew a thing about NA jewelry, would you believe it?  Most of it I bought at that little storefront I mentioned in this thread that used to be in the square in Sonoma.



I get what you're saying about not wanting to take your belts to just anyone.  I bet some of the shops or trading posts out west that specialize in NA jewelry could either do it or recommend someone.  Also, there is a guy named Chuck Pinnell that does amazing custom leather work; I'm sure he would do a great job.  I have no relation to him, but I'll post a link if you're interested.  

https://www.pinnellcustomleather.com/

I agree that you should get them redone though, they are too beautiful not to wear!


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I bet some of the shops or trading posts out west that specialize in NA jewelry could either do it or recommend someone.  Also, there is a guy named Chuck Pinnell that does amazing custom leather work;
> 
> I agree that you should get them redone though, they are too beautiful not to wear!


Good info. I'd also recommend the Tom Taylor leather shop in Santa Fe. This is a TDF place.
https://tomtaylorbuckles.com/


----------



## Compass Rose

jellyv said:


> Lovely!  Don't they look great as a stack. Fyi the Simplicio cuff isn't made by Dan; it's by Carmelita S most likely, or perhaps another family member.  Dan's work is quite different in character,  rare to find and at the high end price wise.  I imagine yours is hallmarked "Simplicio," as Carmelita's work is. What's very "Simplicio" about your piece are the type of the applied silver leaves and the mix of coral and turq. However, those unusual leaves sometimes show up in the work of others.
> 
> It takes a lot of connoisseurship to identify true Dan S pieces, or input from the very few people knowledgeable enough to verify. There's a bunch of material that's like it, but not it.


I just love you and wish I had 1/3rd your knowledge about Native American jewelry and artwork.  You prompted a memory for me, in that I think that the gentleman at Samsville told me woman's name made it, and I was to oblivious to remember anything important.  At any rate, I love all my pieces, small as they are. And that is the fun of snagging something when someone who has information and knowledge can tell you a bit of a story behind a simple  piece.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Please everyone.. post how you wear those concho belts. I did an image search and it looks like a good way to corral blousy tops without scrunching at waist and feeling all confined...yes?  I have to go back and look at *OrbitOrange’s* post earlier..was that one not on leather?



Mine are both on black leather.  I like to wear them with skirts and dresses, although mine are both small enough to thread through jeans and I wear them that way as well.  Here's another pic from the other night that shows a little more of the outfit.




Does anyone else have concho belts to share?  Jelly?


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> You prompted a memory for me, in that I think that the gentleman at Samsville told me woman's name made it, and I was to oblivious to remember anything important.  At any rate, I love all my pieces.


You're so sweet. I am delighted to share whatever I've learned with the lovely aficionados here. We all learn together--plus we now have one awesome *model* for styling these amazing pieces (all hail @OrbitOrange).


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Mine are both on black leather.  I like to wear them with skirts and dresses, although mine are both small enough to thread through jeans and I wear them that way as well.
> Does anyone else have concho belts to share?  Jelly?


Wonderful!!
I had one briefly, an incredible Hopi style overlay that I couldn't figure out whether it was Navajo made (but I think so), and then I let it go bc it was bulky and heavy wearing. I  simply love the concho belt as a form and wouldn't mind hanging a rack of them in a room for display, a la Ralph Lauren or whatever...but the truth is, I will be hunting one scaled smaller, like yours,  probably sooner rather than later!

You probably know this but just for thread fun, it was Joe Quintana who made the now legendary Jim Morrison concho belt. Now _that_ is a piece of rock history.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> You probably know this but just for thread fun, it was Joe Quintana who made the now legendary Jim Morrison concho belt. Now _that_ is a piece of rock history.



I know!  There was a thread on Turquoise People about what is your "grail peice" of NA jewelry and that was my choice.  What an amazing combination of NA and rock 'n roll history.  It's been lost which is such a shame; it would be an great peice for the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame museum.


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Mine are both on black leather.  I like to wear them with skirts and dresses, although mine are both small enough to thread through jeans and I wear them that way as well.  Here's another pic from the other night that shows a little more of the outfit.
> 
> View attachment 4446694
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have concho belts to share?  Jelly?


I think THAT is the way to do it!  Beautiful...OO...….


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I get what you're saying about not wanting to take your belts to just anyone.  I bet some of the shops or trading posts out west that specialize in NA jewelry could either do it or recommend someone.  Also, there is a guy named Chuck Pinnell that does amazing custom leather work; I'm sure he would do a great job.  I have no relation to him, but I'll post a link if you're interested.
> 
> https://www.pinnellcustomleather.com/
> 
> I agree that you should get them redone though, they are too beautiful not to wear!


Thanks for the info!  Plus I can ask Garlands Native American Rugs and Jewelry if they know anyone...since I have bought from them recently, they are nice guys.


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> Thanks for the info!  Plus I can ask Garlands Native American Rugs and Jewelry if they know anyone...since I have bought from them recently, they are nice guys.



Definitely!  Let us know if you get it done and how it goes.


----------



## OrbitOrange

I need advice from jellyv or anyone else with the expertise to answer me!  Crazing vs. cracks on turquoise:  obviously cracks are bad.  Is crazing something to be avoided?  It seems to happen more on stones with "bumpy" or "pitty" matrix, am I right about that?  Is a craze more likely to develop into a crack over time?  Thanks as always for your help


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I need advice from jellyv or anyone else with the expertise to answer me!  Crazing vs. cracks on turquoise:  obviously cracks are bad.  Is crazing something to be avoided?  It seems to happen more on stones with "bumpy" or "pitty" matrix, am I right about that?  Is a craze more likely to develop into a crack over time?  Thanks as always for your help



This is a complicated question, of course.  Cracking is clear through a stone, or at least deep, while crazing is superficial, confined to  the surface level (more or less). Problem is, the long-term stability of a crazed stone is a guess for a lay person; probably it would take a gemologist's exam to know for sure if the craze has unsettled the stone long term.  My feeling is that crazing is (1) _not _to be expected routinely for bumpy matrix and (2) acceptable more for old stones  than recent work, all things considered. I've had pieces with bumpy or dimensional matrix that are entirely free of crazing, so that's why I see them as separate issues.

But for die hard collectors, it always comes down to rarity and aesthetics. If a special piece has some crazing and the seller is trustworthy enough to assure you it's sound, or else you have an emotional response to the piece and just love it, then let that puppy into your life.

I myself am on the conservative side regarding stone integrity. But one piece in my collection has a crazed piece of coral, but it's so great I still had to buy it. And hope for the best.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> This is a complicated question, of course.  Cracking is clear through a stone, or at least deep, while crazing is superficial, confined to  the surface level (more or less). Problem is, the long-term stability of a crazed stone is a guess for a lay person; probably it would take a gemologist's exam to know for sure if the craze has unsettled the stone long term.  My feeling is that crazing is (1) _not _to be expected routinely for bumpy matrix and (2) acceptable more for old stones  than recent work, all things considered. I've had pieces with bumpy or dimensional matrix that are entirely free of crazing, so that's why I see them as separate issues.
> 
> But for die hard collectors, it always comes down to rarity and aesthetics. If a special piece has some crazing and the seller is trustworthy enough to assure you it's sound, or else you have an emotional response to the piece and just love it, then let that puppy into your life.
> 
> I myself am on the conservative side regarding stone integrity. But one piece in my collection has a crazed piece of coral, but it's so great I still had to buy it. And hope for the best.



Thanks for your insights.  There is a bracelet that I've been looking at online for a little while now that I just love.  The thing that is giving me hesitation is that the picture provided looks to show some superficial crazing in the stones.  Only one picture is online so I've e-mailed the (reputable)  seller asking for more pics and if there are any problems with the stones.  It's not cheap so I'd really hate to buy it and find out that the stones don't hold up.  Would you mind taking a look and letting me know your thoughts?  As you said above, I'm sure it's impossible to know for sure if the integrity of the stone is truly damaged but I'd love to know your impressions anyway.


----------



## jellyv

Wow that is a* STUNNING *cuff. I assume these are natural stones, yes? I see two tiny hairlines, one in the center stone at 11 o"clock and the other in the right-most stone running diagonally from 7 to 1. Is that what you're seeing? The top stone has some intense matrix action, including at about the 2 position, but I expect this is all just in the stone.

Minor stuff like this doesn't remotely impinge upon  the piece aesthetically, IMO.  There's too much beauty in these stones and the silverwork to see this as problematic.  But for your further comfort, maybe ask the seller if the stones all are smooth and regular to the finger touch (I think the answer will be yes), vs. catching on any craze; and also how the stones look under a loupe. If all have integrity, there's no worry, and don't let it get away!  I've been hunting an interesting sandcast piece myself, a form I don't yet have...most of the old ones are kind of fotched together looking, because the turq is often a later add-on to the silverwork.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Wow that is a* STUNNING *cuff. I assume these are natural stones, yes? I see two tiny hairlines, one in the center stone at 11 o"clock and the other in the right-most stone running diagonally from 7 to 1. Is that what you're seeing? The top stone has some intense matrix action, including at about the 2 position, but I expect this is all just in the stone.
> 
> Minor stuff like this doesn't remotely impinge upon  the piece aesthetically, IMO.  There's too much beauty in these stones and the silverwork to see this as problematic.  But for your further comfort, maybe ask the seller if the stones all are smooth and regular to the finger touch (I think the answer will be yes), vs. catching on any craze; and also how the stones look under a loupe. If all have integrity, there's no worry, and don't let it get away!  I've been hunting an interesting sandcast piece myself, a form I don't yet have...most of the old ones are kind of fotched together looking, because the turq is often a later add-on to the silverwork.



Thanks so much for your reply.  Yes, those are the two hairline crazes that I had noticed as well.  They do look in the picture to be very superficial.  It is natural Godber's mine turquoise.  I have been lusting after this one for a little while now and have decided I probably need to bite the bullet as I think I might be heartbroken if it got away.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> It is natural Godber's mine turquoise.  I have been lusting after this one for a little while now and have decided I probably need to bite the bullet as I think I might be *heartbroken if it got away.*



Yah. It's honestly a killer, with scarce and amazing turquoise. Go forth!


----------



## Compass Rose

Oh, my......I would wear that cuff anywhere.  I would wear it specifically to just show off.  I know there is crazing on a couple of the stones, but it is just a part of the beauty of the natural stone and because the crazing is just so fine and basically not even apparent, this issue wouldn't bother me, either.  Crazing on other soft stones, like opals, would definitely be an issue, I think.  I just don't believe that bit of crazing would affect the integrity of the stone.  Like jellyv basically indicated......passing the thumbnail test would be a good thing.  But, I am definitely not an expert, as I just love what I see here.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Yah. It's honestly a killer, with scarce and amazing turquoise. Go forth!





Compass Rose said:


> Oh, my......I would wear that cuff anywhere.  I would wear it specifically to just show off.  I know there is crazing on a couple of the stones, but it is just a part of the beauty of the natural stone and because the crazing is just so fine and basically not even apparent, this issue wouldn't bother me, either.  Crazing on other soft stones, like opals, would definitely be an issue, I think.  I just don't believe that bit of crazing would affect the integrity of the stone.  Like jellyv basically indicated......passing the thumbnail test would be a good thing.  But, I am definitely not an expert, as I just love what I see here.



OK.  To quote Wayne Campbell:  "She will be mine.  Oh yes.  She will be mine."


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> OK.  To quote Wayne Campbell:  "She will be mine.  Oh yes.  She will be mine."


----------



## *laur*

Hi everyone!  I just went thru all 63 pages, yelp bookmarked your store suggestions and planning my first NAJ purchase!  I've always wanted to honor the art and skill of NAJ by learning and buying pieces to support the art.  This thread reignited my awe of the pieces and i think i'm due for some retail therapy !  Next Sunday, Long Beach (CA) will have their monthly flea market and they have a seller there 'nancy rose' that displays some beautiful pieces.  I hope to find some earrings!  I'll post any of my finds next week!


----------



## essiedub

*laur* said:


> Hi everyone!  I just went thru all 63 pages, yelp bookmarked your store suggestions and planning my first NAJ purchase!  I've always wanted to honor the art and skill of NAJ by learning and buying pieces to support the art.  This thread reignited my awe of the pieces and i think i'm due for some retail therapy !  Next Sunday, Long Beach (CA) will have their monthly flea market and they have a seller there 'nancy rose' that displays some beautiful pieces.  I hope to find some earrings!  I'll post any of my finds next week!



Welcome!
Awesome! Can’t wait to see what you find..it’s  a slippery slope!


----------



## jellyv

*laur* said:


> Hi everyone!  I just went thru all 63 pages, yelp bookmarked your store suggestions and planning my first NAJ purchase!  I've always wanted to honor the art and skill of NAJ by learning and buying pieces to support the art.   Next Sunday, Long Beach (CA) will have their monthly flea market and they have a seller there 'nancy rose' that displays some beautiful pieces.  I hope to find some earrings!  I'll post any of my finds next week!



Terrific! Have fun shopping and be sure to ask lots of questions of the dealers as you develop your knowledge.


----------



## OrbitOrange

*laur* said:


> Hi everyone!  I just went thru all 63 pages, yelp bookmarked your store suggestions and planning my first NAJ purchase!  I've always wanted to honor the art and skill of NAJ by learning and buying pieces to support the art.  This thread reignited my awe of the pieces and i think i'm due for some retail therapy !  Next Sunday, Long Beach (CA) will have their monthly flea market and they have a seller there 'nancy rose' that displays some beautiful pieces.  I hope to find some earrings!  I'll post any of my finds next week!



Welcome to the thread and to our fun and addictive hobby!  Can't wait to see what you find!


----------



## cdtracing

OrbitOrange said:


> Thanks for your insights.  There is a bracelet that I've been looking at online for a little while now that I just love.  The thing that is giving me hesitation is that the picture provided looks to show some superficial crazing in the stones.  Only one picture is online so I've e-mailed the (reputable)  seller asking for more pics and if there are any problems with the stones.  It's not cheap so I'd really hate to buy it and find out that the stones don't hold up.  Would you mind taking a look and letting me know your thoughts?  As you said above, I'm sure it's impossible to know for sure if the integrity of the stone is truly damaged but I'd love to know your impressions anyway.
> 
> View attachment 4450902


That's one gorgeous cuff!! I would wear that in a heartbeat!


----------



## chessmont

Wow some nice posts I have been MIA lately. In the near future if it's ok to post in this specially NA thread, I bought 2 extremely cool necklaces from an artist named Kit Carson (yes!)  He has western desert spirit to his work, even though he and his work is not NA.  You can see his site at kitcarsonjewelry.com i "think" is the site, I don't have it handy right now.  It might not be to everyone's taste, but I have the "Bony Pony "necklace, and have ordered the skeleton drummer (can't remember the exact name. (30% discount for each of them, made the hurt and guilt less LOL!)  When the second necklace arrives I'll post them.  Hope that's OK here.....


----------



## Compass Rose

*laur* said:


> Hi everyone!  I just went thru all 63 pages, yelp bookmarked your store suggestions and planning my first NAJ purchase!  I've always wanted to honor the art and skill of NAJ by learning and buying pieces to support the art.  This thread reignited my awe of the pieces and i think i'm due for some retail therapy !  Next Sunday, Long Beach (CA) will have their monthly flea market and they have a seller there 'nancy rose' that displays some beautiful pieces.  I hope to find some earrings!  I'll post any of my finds next week!


Welcome!  And don't think I won't be watching for a post from you about what you purchased...lol!  It truly is all about supporting the art. There is so much to learn, and you will, with every single piece that draws you in!


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> Wow some nice posts I have been MIA lately. In the near future if it's ok to post in this specially NA thread, I bought 2 extremely cool necklaces from an artist named Kit Carson (yes!)  He has western desert spirit to his work, even though he and his work is not NA.  You can see his site at kitcarsonjewelry.com i "think" is the site, I don't have it handy right now.  It might not be to everyone's taste, but I have the "Bony Pony "necklace, and have ordered the skeleton drummer (can't remember the exact name. (30% discount for each of them, made the hurt and guilt less LOL!)  When the second necklace arrives I'll post them.  Hope that's OK here.....


Chessmont…….why not.  Do it!  Or...maybe create a thread for something like "Native American Inspired". You know we all will be there in it.  You have fabulous taste and a wealth of knowledge for me.


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> Chessmont…….why not.  Do it!  Or...maybe create a thread for something like "Native American Inspired". You know we all will be there in it.  You have fabulous taste and a wealth of knowledge for me.



-Aww thanks, C. Rose, I may have good taste as in I know what I like, but I have so little knowledge - you all are teaching me!


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> Chessmont…….why not.  Do it!  Or...maybe create a thread for something like "Native American Inspired". You know we all will be there in it.  You have fabulous taste and a wealth of knowledge for me.[/QUOTE
> 
> I honestly am not sure if there would be enough content to post to create a whole thread, why don't you all weigh in if you have any pieces like that, or if the majority of you would like a separate thread.  In the meantime, I'll only post my 2 here, and see what the majority vote is...


----------



## jellyv

chessmont said:


> I bought 2 extremely cool necklaces from an artist named Kit Carson (yes!)  He has western desert spirit to his work, even though he and his work is not NA.  You can see his site at kitcarsonjewelry.com i "think" is the site, ..



Wow, that is some attractive jewelry! Very organic and interesting, though much of it seems unique to the artist vs. connected to NA inspiration. BTW this artist is gutsy to use that name unless it's the real given name--the historical associations of KC are awful, from the Native perspective (though back in the day we only learned the "hero" part).

I do feel that work of this type deserves a  separate thread, so as to not confuse a casual viewer about what's what (the present thread title is deliberate).  Our beloved material isn't generally understood, nor the issues involved with lookalike stuff...hence my point of view.


----------



## chessmont

jellyv said:


> Wow, that is some attractive jewelry! Very organic and interesting, though much of it seems unique to the artist vs. connected to NA inspiration. BTW this artist is gutsy to use that name unless it's the real given name--the historical associations of KC are awful, from the Native perspective (though back in the day we only learned the "hero" part).
> 
> I do feel that work of this type deserves a  separate thread, so as to not confuse a casual viewer about what's what (the present thread title is deliberate).  Our beloved material isn't generally understood, nor the issues involved with lookalike stuff...hence my point of view.


OK, cool.  I think that is his real name...


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> OK, cool.  I think that is his real name...



I'd love to see your jewelry and would definitely go check it out if you started a new thread.  Perhaps "Southwestern Style Jewelry?"   I checked out the Kit Carson website and he has some cool stuff, very unique.  Although some of it is southwestern inspired even those peices don't actually remind me too much of NA jewelry.  I like the Alice in Wonderland line.  Agree with jelly that it's probably best to keep things as accurate as possible, especially with some of the complex issues that surround NA art.


----------



## OrbitOrange

It came!  What do you guys think? The turquoise is really beautiful and unique looking.  I can just barely feel where those crazes are when I run over them with my fingernail.  I was worried that it might not be big enough but it's actually slightly bigger than I would ideally want it, and slides up and down my wrist a little bit.  I think I can live with that though.  The silver is so thick and heavy that I'm not sure I could adjust it at all.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> View attachment 4457226
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It came!  What do you guys think? The turquoise is really beautiful and unique looking.
> actually slightly bigger than I would ideally want it, and slides up and down my wrist a little bit.  I think I can live with that though.  The silver is so thick and heavy that I'm not sure I could adjust it at all.



Speck. Tack. Ular.  Congrats! Looks like it's oxidized for drama, is that right?  Oh my.  If the amount of play is only what you show in the pic as its high wrist position, I bet you'll settle in with it. Also as the weather gets warmer it'll be closer.

err.....NO it looks terrible, return right away ... so that I can sneak in and grab it. 

Who created this amazing cuff, if you feel okay about sharing?


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Speck. Tack. Ular.  Congrats! Looks like it's oxidized for drama, is that right?  Oh my.  If the amount of play is only what you show in the pic as its high wrist position, I bet you'll settle in with it. Also as the weather gets warmer it'll be closer.
> 
> err.....NO it looks terrible, return right away ... so that I can sneak in and grab it.
> 
> Who created this amazing cuff, if you feel okay about sharing?



Yes, it's oxidized a little.  And that's about as high as it wants to ride naturally on my arm, so not too bad.  It bothers me more when it slides to my wrist and blocks my wrist flexion a bit.  I'll survive though.  It's an Aaron Anderson, and I got it through Bahti, which despite several trips to Santa Fe I was unaware of until your post.  You're definitely an enabler!  I'm looking forward to visiting them in person this summer.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> View attachment 4457226
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It came!  What do you guys think? The turquoise is really beautiful and unique looking.  I can just barely feel where those crazes are when I run over them with my fingernail.  I was worried that it might not be big enough but it's actually slightly bigger than I would ideally want it, and slides up and down my wrist a little bit.  I think I can live with that though.  The silver is so thick and heavy that I'm not sure I could adjust it at all.


It’s really beautiful *orbitOrange*!  It’s delicate and substantial at the same time.  (News flash: New realization...these cuffs look so  much much better on the wrist than a photograph of itself .)

You must be thrilled! I am!


----------



## chessmont

Only one word:  WOW!


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I'd love to see your jewelry and would definitely go check it out if you started a new thread.  Perhaps "Southwestern Style Jewelry?"   I checked out the Kit Carson website and he has some cool stuff, very unique.  Although some of it is southwestern inspired even those peices don't actually remind me too much of NA jewelry.  I like the Alice in Wonderland line.  Agree with jelly that it's probably best to keep things as accurate as possible, especially with some of the complex issues that surround NA art.



Will do - only at his prices, I won't have many to show.  Maybe others will discover it and chime in.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Yes, it's oxidized a little.  I got it through Bahti, which despite several trips to Santa Fe I was unaware of until your post.  You're definitely an enabler!  I'm looking forward to visiting them in person this summer.



Wonderful. Yep, Bahti is second gen. in the NA trade, and the Santa Fe shop is smallish but incredibly well curated (with a variety of media, not just jewelry).  They work directly with the artists and get them a fair share, so they don't dicker on prices at all, I discovered. I bought my Wonder Woman Jennifer Curtis cuff there (that's what I call it, lol).  By the way I'm pretty sure the Bahti SF location is where the Patania Thunderbird Shop used to be--I was trying to get to Patania, actually, and happened on Bahti. No more Thunderbird Shop in Santa Fe.

I thought the oxidizing might have been a deliberate addition of oxidization for effect rather than just silver doing its thing over time. Not so, huh? In any case, a wow of a cuff.  I don't have Aaron A in my collection yet but I'm super open to it.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> It’s really beautiful *orbitOrange*!  It’s delicate and substantial at the same time.  (News flash: New realization...these cuffs look so  much much better on the wrist than a photograph of itself .)
> 
> You must be thrilled! I am!



Thanks!  I think that delicate but substantial is a great description of it.  I think that you need to make a post summarizing what you've gotten so far on your short but super intense NA jewelry journey.  I'm very impressed with how committed you've been to educating yourself and how much you've learned so quickly and wish I had been as careful and diligent as you when I was first starting out.  And I would love to see exactly what it's all led to!


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Wonderful. Yep, Bahti is second gen. in the NA trade, and the Santa Fe shop is smallish but incredibly well curated (with a variety of media, not just jewelry).  They work directly with the artists and get them a fair share, so they don't dicker on prices at all, I discovered. I bought my Wonder Woman Jennifer Curtis cuff there (that's what I call it, lol).  By the way I'm pretty sure the Bahti SF location is where the Patania Thunderbird Shop used to be--I was trying to get to Patania, actually, and happened on Bahti. No more Thunderbird Shop in Santa Fe.
> 
> I thought the oxidizing might have been a deliberate addition of oxidization for effect rather than just silver doing its thing over time. Not so, huh? In any case, a wow of a cuff.  I don't have Aaron A in my collection yet but I'm super open to it.



I think that an oxidizing solution has been added--that's what I meant to imply before; sorry if that wasn't clear.  I'm excited to have a new place to check out in Santa Fe.  That town has SO much NA jewelry, it's honestly a little overwhelming.  You could literally just walk around downtown looking at jewelry all day, but there are unfortunately some shady places, so I've found that it's helpful to know ahead of time which places are reputable and high quality.  Same thing with Gallup.  I'm trying to compile a list of must-visit places in both towns before I go this summer (I'll be spending a day in Gallup too) so that I can make the most of my time while I'm there.


----------



## jellyv

^Oh sorry, I did misread your remark about the oxidization. Makes sense.

I can't wait to get back to Santa Fe this fall. Wish I could help with Gallup, I spent a day there once and found it confusing and disappointing,  never found the right retailers.

If you could get up to Taos you'd enjoy the Millicent Rogers Museum..her collection was bananas.


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange… Such a beautiful piece!  It fits you perfectly.  Let it ride up and down your arm.  It won't go more than an inch and it will be magnificent!  I don't know how you feel about wearing bracelets over thin long sleeved tops, but that would look fabulous on a black top, and you would have the room to pull it off.  Either way,there is nothing wrong with wearing it worn close to the wristbone   I am truly jealous.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Here's a few more of my necklaces that I really like.  The first one is a Zuni petit point choker length necklace on a handmade chain.  It's by husband and wife team Rosemary and Quincy Panteah, and I think it's from the 70's or 80's.  Quincy Panteah was governor of Zuni pueblo for a time in the 70's.  


The next one is an 18 inch set of handmade, hand stamped beads that I picked up at a flea market.  I love a good flea market find!  I really like the shape of the beads and the stamping on this one.  I imagine it's probably from the 70's as well, Navajo.  It's not signed or marked.


----------



## Compass Rose

Beautiful pieces!  I love the beads....that was a great find.


----------



## SWlife

The necklace with naja was purchased last year at Shumakolowa Native Arts in ABQ- the artist is Harrison Bitsue. 
The pearls were purchased this year and are Haley Family hand made.


----------



## jellyv

Tasty additions to the thread, ladies! Thanks for sharing.

O'O, love the color of the needlepoint turquoise, and those beads are so handsome with their strong flying saucer shapes.
Gacats, those pearls have really pretty oxidizing, an effect I enjoy. Harrison B's sandcasting is very attractive: I've been looking online at some bracelets by him, tempting.


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> Here's a few more of my necklaces that I really like.  The first one is a Zuni petit point choker length necklace on a handmade chain.  It's by husband and wife team Rosemary and Quincy Panteah, and I think it's from the 70's or 80's.  Quincy Panteah was governor of Zuni pueblo for a time in the 70's.
> View attachment 4465275
> 
> The next one is an 18 inch set of handmade, hand stamped beads that I picked up at a flea market.  I love a good flea market find!  I really like the shape of the beads and the stamping on this one.  I imagine it's probably from the 70's as well, Navajo.  It's not signed or marked.
> View attachment 4465276


both beautiful but that first one is daintily exquisite!  (is that a term, LOL?)


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Here's a few more of my necklaces that I really like.  The first one is a Zuni petit point choker length necklace on a handmade chain.  It's by husband and wife team Rosemary and Quincy Panteah, and I think it's from the 70's or 80's.  Quincy Panteah was governor of Zuni pueblo for a time in the 70's.
> View attachment 4465275
> 
> The next one is an 18 inch set of handmade, hand stamped beads that I picked up at a flea market.  I love a good flea market find!  I really like the shape of the beads and the stamping on this one.  I imagine it's probably from the 70's as well, Navajo.  It's not signed or marked.
> View attachment 4465276


Really nice OrbitOrange! Can they be layered together since they both have that “peaked” profile? Or maybe that’s too much as they are such strong elements in and Of themselves?  Anyway, please model!!


----------



## OrbitOrange

gacats said:


> The necklace with naja was purchased last year at Shumakolowa Native Arts in ABQ- the artist is Harrison Bitsue.
> The pearls were purchased this year and are Haley Family hand made.


 
I love these.  I've also checked out some of Harrison Bitsue's stuff online and been tempted.  And I have a similar set of pearls--brushed silver discs with oxidation.  Thanks for sharing!  And you've definitely inspired me to visit Shumakolowa if I get a chance.


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> both beautiful but that first one is daintily exquisite!  (is that a term, LOL?)



I think it's a term!



essiedub said:


> Really nice OrbitOrange! Can they be layered together since they both have that “peaked” profile? Or maybe that’s too much as they are such strong elements in and Of themselves?  Anyway, please model!!



Thanks!  I don't layer them together because they are similar lengths, and I feel like the beads would also "outweigh" the petit point and look unbalanced.  And possibly bang against the stones.  But I do like to layer the beads with other, heavier necklaces.  I actually was wearing them as part of the outfit I posted 6 weeks or so ago.  Here's another pic if you don't feel like scrolling back, and one of the petit point.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> I think it's a term!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!  I don't layer them together because they are similar lengths, and I feel like the beads would also "outweigh" the petit point and look unbalanced.  And possibly bang against the stones.  But I do like to layer the beads with other, heavier necklaces.  I actually was wearing them as part of the outfit I posted 6 weeks or so ago.  Here's another pic if you don't feel like scrolling back, and one of the petit point.
> 
> View attachment 4467283
> 
> 
> View attachment 4467284


That Panteah necklace is really Really beautiful! Are the earrings Panteah also? Pairs so well. You look great!


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> That Panteah necklace is really Really beautiful! Are the earrings Panteah also? Pairs so well. You look great!



The earrings are not by R+Q Panteah, but they do go well with the necklace.  I'm actually embarrassed to say that I'm not entirely sure that the earrings are not block.  I can tell with larger pieces of turquoise, but with the really small needle point and with no matrix I can have trouble telling.  Here are a few closer pictures.  Of course I could do the hot needle test but I don't really feel like ruining them even if they are block.  I do know that they're Zuni and by Darren Kallestewa.  When I bought them I wasn't as careful as I am now.    







I've looked for other pieces for sale by Rosemary and Quincy and I haven't been able to find much.  A few small rings but I think that's all.  I've found some pictures of really nice stuff, but not for sale.  Somewhere I read that they didn't make a whole lot of jewelry because Quincy was so busy with his political career.  I don't know if that's true or not but it seems like it could be.  I have the first two volumes of a 3 book set called "Zuni:  The Art and the People" which was published in the 70's at the height of the NA jewelry boom.  They are cool books, they feature different artists with short bios and pictures of their works.  One has a picture of a mountain lion or bobcat wearing a Zuni necklace with no explanation at all--just there with the other pictures of jewelry.  Unfortunately the 3rd volume is much rarer and copies of it are quite expensive.  Anyway, Quincy is featured in volume 1 and Rosemary is featured in volume 2.  It's fun to read about them and also own a necklace by them that I love.


----------



## Compass Rose

So, my husband and I are booked for a 4-day Grand Canyon train tour in the beginning of August.  From there, we are going to Sedona and Phoenix for a few days.  I am sad about the "few" days because of our time constraints that limit us to stay longer, but there will always be a next time.  We are on the hunt for artwork.   That is first and foremost, but I am sure there will be some native american jewelry that will be calling my name while we are out there. We are staying in the cutest boutique hotel just walking distance from Tlaquepaque (never been there) and probably the most we will get to do is explore Oak Creek Canyon.  I am so excited even for the short visit and I can just feel information overload coming on.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> So, my husband and I are booked for a 4-day Grand Canyon train tour in the beginning of August.  From there, we are going to Sedona and Phoenix for a few days.  I am sad about the "few" days because of our time constraints that limit us to stay longer, but there will always be a next time.  We are on the hunt for artwork.   That is first and foremost, but I am sure there will be some native american jewelry that will be calling my name while we are out there. We are staying in the cutest boutique hotel just walking distance from Tlaquepaque (never been there) and probably the most we will get to do is explore Oak Creek Canyon.  I am so excited even for the short visit and I can just feel information overload coming on.



Ooh lucky you! Sedona is lovely. When we went, I was not yet into Native American jewelry..passed the Tlaquepaque plaza but didn’t go in. Bummer. Can’t wait to see what you find!


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> Ooh lucky you! Sedona is lovely. When we went, I was not yet into Native American jewelry..passed the Tlaquepaque plaza but didn’t go in. Bummer. Can’t wait to see what you find!


essiedub.....you will go back some day!  There is just so much out there to do, it is just about overwhelming.  I want to stay next time for a longer period.  What I really want to do is go house hunting.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> essiedub.....you will go back some day!  There is just so much out there to do, it is just about overwhelming.  I want to stay next time for a longer period.  What I really want to do is go house hunting.


Ooh  yes! Sedona is magical. Good luck! I’d love a super modern one integrated into the rock with views of the valley and all minimal furnishings (that’s my dream...as I look around at all my accumulated stuff ugh)


----------



## bisbee

Compass Rose said:


> So, my husband and I are booked for a 4-day Grand Canyon train tour in the beginning of August.  From there, we are going to Sedona and Phoenix for a few days.  I am sad about the "few" days because of our time constraints that limit us to stay longer, but there will always be a next time.  We are on the hunt for artwork.   That is first and foremost, but I am sure there will be some native american jewelry that will be calling my name while we are out there. We are staying in the cutest boutique hotel just walking distance from Tlaquepaque (never been there) and probably the most we will get to do is explore Oak Creek Canyon.  I am so excited even for the short visit and I can just feel information overload coming on.


I haven’t been for years, but did visit Sedona twice with my ex.  We went to Tlaquepaque twice...there was a wonderful gallery there where we purchased several pieces.  I have a large gouache painting by Blanche Davidson...there were a few other pictures, but my ex has them.


----------



## Compass Rose

bisbee said:


> I haven’t been for years, but did visit Sedona twice with my ex.  We went to Tlaquepaque twice...there was a wonderful gallery there where we purchased several pieces.  I have a large gouache painting by Blanche Davidson...there were a few other pictures, but my ex has them.


There are several galleries I want to visit at Tlaquepaque, and I plan on getting to all those beautiful jewelry shops, too!  I just wish we had more time this trip, but I will take all I can get.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> There are several galleries I want to visit at Tlaquepaque, and I plan on getting to all those beautiful jewelry shops, too!  I just wish we had more time this trip, but I will take all I can get.




Can't wait to see what you get!  I'd love to visit Sedona and I'm dying to visit the Grand Canyon.


----------



## chessmont

OMG you guys I am certifiably crazy!!!!!!!  I bought a gorgeous concho belt from Garlands online.  DO NOT GO THERE!  Modern Navajo, same artisan as the Inner Beauty cuff i posted.  I am So overweight, I swore to myself if I bought it I would have the courage to wear it.  I will try to post a pic tomorrow.  Folks, give me the courage to wear it despite my weight or the dollars wasted are enormous!


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> OMG you guys I am certifiably crazy!!!!!!!  I bought a gorgeous concho belt from Garlands online.  DO NOT GO THERE!  Modern Navajo, same artisan as the Inner Beauty cuff i posted.  I am So overweight, I swore to myself if I bought it I would have the courage to wear it.  I will try to post a pic tomorrow.  Folks, give me the courage to wear it despite my weight or the dollars wasted are enormous!


NOT.  GOING.  INTO.  GARLANDS.  ......


----------



## Compass Rose

Why did I just go into Garlands????


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> Why did I just go into Garlands????


----------



## sdkitty

what you buying?


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> Why did I just go into Garlands????



hehehe you've just gone to the Dark Side!
I think it is a father and son business, they are so nice and helpful and accommodating when I have spoken with them on the phone.


----------



## chessmont

Well really there is no good way to get a detailed photo of the entire belt while still swing the detail I forget how many conchos there are but there are a lot. It goes in a nice long soft bag and then I to a nice box so I don’t feel like pulling out again to count. I hope some of these pics give an idea of it. Every concho has slightly different things pictured, usually it seems, an animal in the center. Hope my pics upload successfully


----------



## chessmont

Oops some duplicates sorry. I was getting an error of file too large but I guess didn’t know which one and reloaded as thumbnails...


----------



## sdkitty

chessmont said:


> View attachment 4475263
> View attachment 4475265
> View attachment 4475265
> View attachment 4475263
> View attachment 4475265
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well really there is no good way to get a detailed photo of the entire belt while still swing the detail I forget how many conchos there are but there are a lot. It goes in a nice long soft bag and then I to a nice box so I don’t feel like pulling out again to count. I hope some of these pics give an idea of it. Every concho has slightly different things pictured, usually it seems, an animal in the center. Hope my pics upload successfully


very nice


----------



## Compass Rose

Wow, chessmont.....that is not what I was expecting to see at all.....it is so unusual!  And very, very cool.


sdkitty said:


> what you buying?


I don't even know.  I will just wheelbarrow a bunch of money into the store and see what I just can't live without.


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> Wow, chessmont.....that is not what I was expecting to see at all.....it is so unusual!  And very, very cool.
> 
> I don't even know.  I will just wheelbarrow a bunch of money into the store and see what I just can't live without.


I thought you were going yesterday.....have fun


----------



## Cool Breeze

chessmont said:


> View attachment 4475263
> View attachment 4475265
> View attachment 4475265
> View attachment 4475263
> View attachment 4475265
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well really there is no good way to get a detailed photo of the entire belt while still swing the detail I forget how many conchos there are but there are a lot. It goes in a nice long soft bag and then I to a nice box so I don’t feel like pulling out again to count. I hope some of these pics give an idea of it. Every concho has slightly different things pictured, usually it seems, an animal in the center. Hope my pics upload successfully


Outstanding!


----------



## Compass Rose

sdkitty said:


> I thought you were going yesterday.....have fun


No...bummer....not until about August 5th, 6th, and 7th......


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> View attachment 4475263
> View attachment 4475265
> View attachment 4475265
> View attachment 4475263
> View attachment 4475265
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well really there is no good way to get a detailed photo of the entire belt while still swing the detail I forget how many conchos there are but there are a lot. It goes in a nice long soft bag and then I to a nice box so I don’t feel like pulling out again to count. I hope some of these pics give an idea of it. Every concho has slightly different things pictured, usually it seems, an animal in the center. Hope my pics upload successfully




This is beautiful and will look so nice with your bracelet!  Congratulations!  You definitely need to have the courage to wear it--it will look great on you!


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> This is beautiful and will look so nice with your bracelet!  Congratulations!  You definitely need to have the courage to wear it--it will look great on you!


Aww thank you!  I think my best bet would be with a white tunic length boy-shirt, you know, not a button down exactly, but with a collar


----------



## sdkitty

chessmont said:


> Aww thank you!  I think my best bet would be with a white tunic length boy-shirt, you know, not a button down exactly, but with a collar


that would show it off....black (my fave color) would too


----------



## sdkitty

I'm going to insert a question into this thread.  Do you like to match your jewelry - e.g., when wearing a turquoise bracelet, do you wear turquoise earrings?
I do this sometimes but I don't want to look matchy matchy and therefore old-fashioned.  So more often I will just wear silver earrings with my turquoise bracelet and wear the turquoise earrings with a plain silver bracelet.


----------



## sgj99

I usually wear two types but don’t cover myself in it.  For example I wear some necklaces with a ring _or a _cuff but not both.


----------



## chessmont

sdkitty said:


> I'm going to insert a question into this thread.  Do you like to match your jewelry - e.g., when wearing a turquoise bracelet, do you wear turquoise earrings?
> I do this sometimes but I don't want to look matchy matchy and therefore old-fashioned.  So more often I will just wear silver earrings with my turquoise bracelet and wear the turquoise earrings with a plain silver bracelet.


I mix and match, whatever my mood, but if there is a least some color in one of the pieces that ties into the other (if one or the other multicolor) that's good too.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Oh man I'm jealous of whoever has this beauty on hold....
https://www.brownstrading.com/RARE-JOE-H-QUINTANA-SQUASH-BLOSSOM-p/bcjqs1.htm


----------



## Compass Rose

sdkitty said:


> I'm going to insert a question into this thread.  Do you like to match your jewelry - e.g., when wearing a turquoise bracelet, do you wear turquoise earrings?
> I do this sometimes but I don't want to look matchy matchy and therefore old-fashioned.  So more often I will just wear silver earrings with my turquoise bracelet and wear the turquoise earrings with a plain silver bracelet.


I just can't seem to match my jewelry.  If I am going to wear a pendant or necklace, I always head first for silver hoops or the favorite pair of silver feather earrings that don't fight with my necklace choice.  I have an "over abundance"...as my hubby calls it, of silver bracelets and cuffs, so I wear one of those.  On rare occasions, I match my turquoise, but the bottom line is not wearing anything with a print at all for me, anyway.  Maybe I will bust loose of my tried and true tradition one day....but I doubt it.


----------



## Compass Rose

OrbitOrange said:


> Oh man I'm jealous of whoever has this beauty on hold....
> https://www.brownstrading.com/RARE-JOE-H-QUINTANA-SQUASH-BLOSSOM-p/bcjqs1.htm


Wowzer!


----------



## jellyv

Our two Steven J Begay bracelets, incredible Navajo overlay work. These date to about 2003, when Steven was an unknown maker. 
	

		
			
		

		
	




The smaller is mine (labeled "1").  SJB is heavily collected in Japan. A lot of his imagery relates to his peyote religion, I've read.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Our two Steven J Begay bracelets, incredible Navajo overlay work. These date to about 2003, when Steven was an unknown maker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4482520
> View attachment 4482521
> 
> The smaller is mine (labeled "1").  SJB is heavily collected in Japan. A lot of his imagery relates to his peyote religion, I've read.



Really nice!  I remember you had mentioned Steven J Begay before and I looked up his work as a result.  Gorgeous overlay work; I love the  bold patterns.  Looks nice and heavy, too.  I'm glad you got a chance to share, I love seeing your collection!

Do you have any Depression era Santo Domingo found materials necklaces?  I think they are so cool and am kind of considering getting one.  I don't really know what to look for in them or how to compare them though--any advice appreciated


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> Do you have any Depression era Santo Domingo found materials necklaces?  I think they are so cool and am kind of considering getting one.  I don't really know what to look for in them or how to compare them though--any advice appreciated



Only have a large thunderbird bolo, unclear if it started its life as a bolo or was originally the centerpiece of a necklace. I'll post a pic when I can.
I'm also interested but have little hands-on experience with them.  The owners of Rainbowman in Santa Fe (the Kapouns) are probably the most prominent collectors/dealers of these necklaces. They were ahead of the curve in buying them when they were still of no real interest in the market. I've held one in person and the necklace beads were a kind of off-white gypsum or other clay type material--unexpectedly. And of course the black parts are from old 78 records or battery packs, a very cool feature. And if you didn't know this, the necklaces and the center bird are often very large. They don't photograph large but some certainly are, so they are very statement-looking. Let's go find some!


----------



## GoStanford

This thread is really interesting and you all have beautiful jewelry and photos.  When I was a kid, we made some trips to Sedona and Phoenix, Arizona and I remember getting little pieces of turquoise jewelry as a souvenir.  I am really enjoying reading and learning about the various turquoise mines in the United States, the ways the stone is treated and cut for jewelry setting, and the different styles reflective of traditional methods.  Looking forward to someday sharing a future purchase here.

P.S.  Wow, the photos on Garland's are spectacular, aren't they?  Beautifully pictured jewelry.

P.P.S.  For those of you who like a late-night internet shopping excursion as much as I do, the Horsekeeping site, which has a lot of helpful info on jewelry, jewelry care, artisans, and techniques, is having a Buy One, Get One ring sale the entire month of July.  There's a lot of great stuff to browse.  The sale extends to their vintage and bargain rings.


----------



## chessmont

GoStanford said:


> This thread is really interesting and you all have beautiful jewelry and photos.  When I was a kid, we made some trips to Sedona and Phoenix, Arizona and I remember getting little pieces of turquoise jewelry as a souvenir.  I am really enjoying reading and learning about the various turquoise mines in the United States, the ways the stone is treated and cut for jewelry setting, and the different styles reflective of traditional methods.  Looking forward to someday sharing a future purchase here.
> 
> P.S.  Wow, the photos on Garland's are spectacular, aren't they?  Beautifully pictured jewelry.
> 
> P.P.S.  For those of you who like a late-night internet shopping excursion as much as I do, the Horsekeeping site, which has a lot of helpful info on jewelry, jewelry care, artisans, and techniques, is having a Buy One, Get One ring sale the entire month of July.  There's a lot of great stuff to browse.  The sale extends to their vintage and bargain rings.


Oh yeah I am on an at LEAST yearlong ban from Garland's!!!!


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Only have a large thunderbird bolo, unclear if it started its life as a bolo or was originally the centerpiece of a necklace. I'll post a pic when I can.
> I'm also interested but have little hands-on experience with them.  The owners of Rainbowman in Santa Fe (the Kapouns) are probably the most prominent collectors/dealers of these necklaces. They were ahead of the curve in buying them when they were still of no real interest in the market. I've held one in person and the necklace beads were a kind of off-white gypsum or other clay type material--unexpectedly. And of course the black parts are from old 78 records or battery packs, a very cool feature. And if you didn't know this, the necklaces and the center bird are often very large. They don't photograph large but some certainly are, so they are very statement-looking. Let's go find some!



Good info, thanks!  I've been intending to go to Rainbowman when I go in August, so I'll have to look for some there and see if I can learn anything.  I've seen one or two in museums but haven't gotten the chance to hold one or inspect it close up.  My husband thinks I'm a little daft for wanting jewelry that's not cheap that's mostly made of plastic but I think they are so neat and have such a cool story.  And the turquoise of course is usually real.  I'd love to see your bolo.  Is it the mosaic plastic inlay style?


----------



## OrbitOrange

[QUOTE="GoStanford, post:  For those of you who like a late-night internet shopping excursion as much as I do, the Horsekeeping site, which has a lot of helpful info on jewelry, jewelry care, artisans, and techniques, is having a Buy One, Get One ring sale the entire month of July.  There's a lot of great stuff to browse.  The sale extends to their vintage and bargain rings.[/QUOTE]

Good tip on the Horsekeeping sale, thanks!  I really like that website; they have great articles and info.


----------



## GoStanford

OrbitOrange said:


> Good tip on the Horsekeeping sale, thanks!  I really like that website; they have great articles and info.


Yes, they really are a helpful resource!  It turns out I had read some of their posts on cleaning tarnish off silver a long time ago, before I was looking specifically for information on Native American jewelry.  They really seem to put a lot of time into curating the offerings on their website.  The sale I mentioned above doesn't include the brand new rings, as the artists they work with set the prices on those, and Horsekeeping wants to respect the set prices, which seems like a good practice to me.


----------



## Compass Rose

chessmont said:


> Oh yeah I am on an at LEAST yearlong ban from Garland's!!!!


Lol...!


----------



## GoStanford

Too beautiful not to share.  These are from the ongoing July sale on Horsekeeping's website.

First is an inlay ring of a Zuni maiden by artist Theresa Waseta.  Apparently she made several of these rings, with inlay material including turquoise, spiny oyster, jet, black onyx, and/or mother of pearl.  Joyce Waseta, her daughter, continues the tradition.



Next is an unsigned turquoise petit point ring from a large collection that the website is in the process of selling.  I read their care tips and used a toothpick to clean some of the surface dirt out, followed by a dry toothbrush between the stones.


----------



## Compass Rose

Yes..those are some absolutely lovely pieces!


----------



## Compass Rose

Definitely going into Garlands.    It is just up the road from where we are staying.  It would be totally ridiculous not to go there, as I am in the market for a pendant and a cuff.  It seems to be the real deal to go to, according to my favorite experts here, and other reviews.  I was wondering if any of you were familiar with The Hope House, and what your take is on it.  We want to purchase a nice piece of artwork that we can send home without bringing it home on the plane.  As I mentioned, our time in Sedona is limited to just two nights...ugh...but I want to make it a successful trip! Lol...


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> Definitely going into Garlands.    It is just up the road from where we are staying.
> .  I was wondering if any of you were familiar with The Hope House, and what your take is on it.  We want to purchase a nice piece of artwork that we can send home without bringing it home on the plane.  As I mentioned, our time in Sedona is limited to just two nights...ugh...but I want to make it a successful trip! Lol...



Great. DO NOTE that Garland's has TWO separate shops, Garland's Rugs (which has a small jewelry dept.) and the mothership of Garland's Jewelry itself, in Oak Creek Canyon just a couple miles out.  Be sure you get to the jewelry store, don't get confused (I only mention this because others have failed to get to the right shop). Note also that Garland's Rugs is in a building whose second floor has a shop with the very best Hopi jewelry, both contemporary and vintage, Kopavi.  NOT a good website, but great things and lovely manager. It keeps odd hours, so check on that if you want to get in.
https://www.kopaviinternational.com/

Also in Oak Creek Canyon and frankly hard to find is the exceptional Hoel's Indian Shop, with primo things in all media.

Artwork wise in Sedona: I've had good experiences with The Turquoise Tortoise. I bought two paintings remotely, not even while there, and they handled the transaction very well (and I was able to negotiate on price). They also have interesting modern Indian jewelry, like the Lister family pieces. Don't know Hope House.


----------



## Compass Rose

Thank you, Jellyv!  I meant the HOPI HOUSE....in the GCNP.....my fingers took a wrong turn and I can't correct it.  Yeah...I saw that there are two Garland's, and directions could be confusing.  We will take your advice and check out Oak Creek Canyon as well.  I know that the majority of the items in Sedona, and especially Tlaquepaque  can be marked up quite a bit, but it will be fun to shop there and look around, and then go to some specific places recommended here.  We decided to take the Verde Canyon train for their 4 hour trip through the canyon and we are not leaving the station until 1pm.  That will give us some time in the late afternoon to evening to shop.  I can snag what calls to me in the jewelry department in  heartbeat!


----------



## chessmont

Hi I hope this link comes through, anybody have any info on this shop?  Some gorgeous items but I was only looking at necklaces.  A couple of famous artist pieces $16,00+  If it come through, here is one I just loved!  Kind of "Goth" NA.  I wish I could afford it right now; my credit cards are itching...
https://perrynulltrading.com/aaron-anderson-necklace-tufa-cast-crosses-silver-beads-navajo


----------



## Compass Rose

Just had my first morning coffee looking at this site.  It would be fun to visit the trading post.  That is a statement piece for sure, chessmont.  I wish I could pull something like that off, myself.  And while I am wishing, I wish that I could afford some of their spectacular items, too.


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> Just had my first morning coffee looking at this site.  It would be fun to visit the trading post.  That is a statement piece for sure, chessmont.  I wish I could pull something like that off, myself.  And while I am wishing, I wish that I could afford some of their spectacular items, too.


OMG I put in a bid for it!  Call me nuts!  Some of the pieces, when you click on them, give you the opportunity to place a bid. I don’t know if I want or don’t want them to accept it!  I just couldn’t stop thinking about it!


----------



## Compass Rose

I hope you get it!  I love spending other people's money, lol!  I am going to have to look further into that site, and you can tell me how fair you think they are.....which I am sure, they are fair.  Good luck, and I am anxious to know your outcome.


----------



## chessmont

Compass Rose said:


> I hope you get it!  I love spending other people's money, lol!  I am going to have to look further into that site, and you can tell me how fair you think they are.....which I am sure, they are fair.  Good luck, and I am anxious to know your outcome.


Yes I did get it - if the bid is really high there is kind of a bar graph from left to right that indicates a very strong bid on the right end, back down to the left end that its a crappy offer.  Some of the bids say "Possible" and to the right of that is "Serious Bid"   (or something like that). I put the highest bid in that said Possible, but it it was only something like a bit more than 6% discount.  hey, better than full price!

Well as to fair, it is what it is.  Who knows idf they mark up a little so to accept offers that people might think are then bargains, IDK.  But overall their prices seem to correspond to the prices on Garland's


----------



## jellyv

chessmont said:


> Yes I did get   But overall their prices seem to correspond to the prices on Garland's


Congrats, this is quite the statement look and I agree, a punky AllSaints/Navajo mashup. Love it.

The answer is that they're reputable dealers and stand behind their stuff and do represent high-end makers, historic and contemporary. When they describe the turquoise, they mean it. They're the administrators of that Turquoise People website, as you may know.

Oh and, Garland's _never _discounts at all.


----------



## Compass Rose

Such good information for everything here.  Some modeling shots are in order....or even laid out in your possesion will be wonderful to look at.  I am such a basic person that I can picture that necklace in a great v-necked black tank.


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> Yes I did get it - if the bid is really high there is kind of a bar graph from left to right that indicates a very strong bid on the right end, back down to the left end that its a crappy offer.  Some of the bids say "Possible" and to the right of that is "Serious Bid"   (or something like that). I put the highest bid in that said Possible, but it it was only something like a bit more than 6% discount.  hey, better than full price!
> 
> Well as to fair, it is what it is.  Who knows idf they mark up a little so to accept offers that people might think are then bargains, IDK.  But overall their prices seem to correspond to the prices on Garland's


 
Congratulations!  It's the Aaron Anderson tufa cast squash blossom that you got, correct?  It's truly gorgeous.  Aaron Anderson is the artist that made my bracelet with the Godber's mine turquoise that I got about a month ago and posted on here.  I think his work is pretty fantastic.  If you search You Tube there are some videos of him demonstrating his process as he hand carves and casts silver in tufa, and talks through the process.  He is known for working with good stones as well.

Perry Null is a great trading post that's been around for generations (used to be called Tobe Turpins).  They are reputable and still serve as an active trading and pawn post  that is important to the NA economy.  I visited when I was in Gallup previously and am very excited to go back next month.  I think their prices are pretty fair.  I also bought an Aaron Anderson peice online from them (eagle pendant that I posted on here before) that I "made an offer" for and they accepted.  Someone on this thread did say that they had a bad experience there (unable to get a sales associate to help them) but hopefully that was just an off day.


----------



## SWlife

chessmont said:


> Hi I hope this link comes through, anybody have any info on this shop?  Some gorgeous items but I was only looking at necklaces.  A couple of famous artist pieces $16,00+  If it come through, here is one I just loved!  Kind of "Goth" NA.  I wish I could afford it right now; my credit cards are itching...
> https://perrynulltrading.com/aaron-anderson-necklace-tufa-cast-crosses-silver-beads-navajo


Perry Null was a no go for me. I was looking at squash blossoms and was ignored. I went over to an employee to ask for assistance and was told they were too busy with their pawn clients. I was advised they could possibly help me in a couple of hours. That was embarrassing and frustrating for me. They are off my shopping list. 
Hopefully others have had a better experience.


----------



## chessmont

gacats said:


> Perry Null was a no go for me. I was looking at squash blossoms and was ignored. I went over to an employee to ask for assistance and was told they were too busy with their pawn clients. I was advised they could possibly help me in a couple of hours. That was embarrassing and frustrating for me. They are off my shopping list.
> Hopefully others have had a better experience.


Oh no I am so sorry to hear this!


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> Congratulations!  It's the Aaron Anderson tufa cast squash blossom that you got, correct?  It's truly gorgeous.  Aaron Anderson is the artist that made my bracelet with the Godber's mine turquoise that I got about a month ago and posted on here.  I think his work is pretty fantastic.  If you search You Tube there are some videos of him demonstrating his process as he hand carves and casts silver in tufa, and talks through the process.  He is known for working with good stones as well.
> 
> Perry Null is a great trading post that's been around for generations (used to be called Tobe Turpins).  They are reputable and still serve as an active trading and pawn post  that is important to the NA economy.  I visited when I was in Gallup previously and am very excited to go back next month.  I think their prices are pretty fair.  I also bought an Aaron Anderson peice online from them (eagle pendant that I posted on here before) that I "made an offer" for and they accepted.  Someone on this thread did say that they had a bad experience there (unable to get a sales associate to help them) but hopefully that was just an off day.


Yes that is the one.  They accepted the offer and I paid but, hmm, not is still on the site an able to be bid on or purchased.  Hope it is just not updated yet.

Yes I remember your gorgeous piece, I'm glad i Picked this it is so unique and different.  My DH does not see this CC thank goodness!


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> Congratulations!  It's the Aaron Anderson tufa cast squash blossom that you got, correct?  It's truly gorgeous.  Aaron Anderson is the artist that made my bracelet with the Godber's mine turquoise that I got about a month ago and posted on here.  I think his work is pretty fantastic.  If you search You Tube there are some videos of him demonstrating his process as he hand carves and casts silver in tufa, and talks through the process.  He is known for working with good stones as well.
> 
> Perry Null is a great trading post that's been around for generations (used to be called Tobe Turpins).  They are reputable and still serve as an active trading and pawn post  that is important to the NA economy.  I visited when I was in Gallup previously and am very excited to go back next month.  I think their prices are pretty fair.  I also bought an Aaron Anderson peice online from them (eagle pendant that I posted on here before) that I "made an offer" for and they accepted.  Someone on this thread did say that they had a bad experience there (unable to get a sales associate to help them) but hopefully that was just an off day.


I went back and looked at your piece- though not as "out there" (at least to me) I feel the same "vibe" of the style.  Hard to explain, but we all know "vibe" is not explainable LOL. Chunky , yet delicate and not "clunky".  I certainly am no writer, nor an experienced NA jewelry critic.  Like with wine, I just know what I like


----------



## chessmont

Not a thought out outfit, it just happened to be what I was wearing as I drove down to the mailbox and ripped open the box before I continued on my way.


----------



## chessmont

Any of the experts know what kind of turquoise this might be?  It has almost metallic dark veins in some of it, others have a little brown.  Is it Royston?  Not the dark green/brown I think of, but I have also seen some light colored called Royston... I can't remember if it said in the description.


----------



## Compass Rose

Wowzer, wowzer!  That is a beautiful piece!  And it came so fast, too!  This may be pushing it, but I would have to agree that there is Royston in that piece, especially in the naja.  I hope I am right, because I would like to pat myself on the back if it was Royston... You are so lucky to come into possession of that beautiful necklace.


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> Not a thought out outfit, it just happened to be what I was wearing as I drove down to the mailbox and ripped open the box before I continued on my way.



WOW.  Congratulations!  What a statement.  As to the type of turquoise, the listing you posted states that there are several types:
"You will find an amazing piece of Number Eight Turquoise, a couple of Arizona's legendary Kingman Turquoise stones, some Carico Lake Turquoise, Morenci and a fabulous piece of high domed Persian Turquoise that has an incredible blue with reddish brown spider web matrix. All seven pieces of hand carved tufa pieces hang on a combo silver bead and turquoise rock necklace."

My guess is that the naja might be number 8?  And Morenci probably the cross on the bottom left of the image--that's the one I feel most sure about.  Maybe the Persian is the cross on the bottom right, which looks rather high domed and appears to maybe have a reddish brown matrix from the photo.  Not sure which one would be the Carico Lake, in my experience that often has a slightly greenish tint.  To me Kingman is kind of a catch-all, it can have so many different appearances and I'm not good at identifying it.  I've been so sure that different stones I've come across were a number of varying mines only to be told by people smarter that they're all likely Kingman.  Maybe jellyv can help us in identifying which is which on your necklace.  All beautiful stones though.


----------



## jellyv

I agree with O'O that the naja stone looks like the #8, and that the cross to the left looks like it has Morenci._ But _that's if I'm interpreting the photo correctly, which is difficult given the lighting of the shot and without macro detail. What I'd do is ask the P Null folks to identify which stones are which. They should oblige.


----------



## chessmont

Well that shows y'all what I know! - Nothing!  I didn't go look at the description (lazy me)


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> I agree with O'O that the naja stone looks like the #8, and that the cross to the left looks like it has Morenci._ But _that's if I'm interpreting the photo correctly, which is difficult given the lighting of the shot and without macro detail. What I'd do is ask the P Null folks to identify which stones are which. They should oblige.





chessmont said:


> Well that shows y'all what I know! - Nothing!  I didn't go look at the description (lazy me)



Good idea on asking Perry Null.  Chessmont, let us know if you do this; I'd be curious to know which is which.


----------



## jellyv

chessmont said:


> Well that shows y'all what I know! - Nothing!  I didn't go look at the description (lazy me)



How about this: I was just browsing a chat on Turquoise People about Persian turquoise, and Jason (PN moderator) posted a pic that he says is Persian turq in a cross necklace--looks familiar!
https://forum.turquoisepeople.com/t/help-with-turquoise-and-age/4713/7


----------



## cdtracing

chessmont said:


> Not a thought out outfit, it just happened to be what I was wearing as I drove down to the mailbox and ripped open the box before I continued on my way.


Oh, Chessmont, this is spectacular!!  What a stunning statement piece!  It looks magnificent!!!  I'm Jelly!!


----------



## chessmont

cdtracing said:


> Oh, Chessmont, this is spectacular!!  What a stunning statement piece!  It looks magnificent!!!  I'm Jelly!!


Aww thanks, cdtracing, it is pretty cool, not as heavy as some of my other pieces but if was built heavily it would be unwearable!


----------



## chessmont

jellyv said:


> How about this: I was just browsing a chat on Turquoise People about Persian turquoise, and Jason (PN moderator) posted a pic that he says is Persian turq in a cross necklace--looks familiar!
> https://forum.turquoisepeople.com/t/help-with-turquoise-and-age/4713/7


interesting!  I did not know there was turquoise found in Persia.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Yay!  I just got my first issue of Native American Art magazine!  And just in time for the special issue all about Indian Market in Santa Fe.  I was afraid I'd miss this issue, which was a major reason I wanted to get the magazine.  Anyway, I'll have to see if it's worthwhile.

In other good news, SWAIA has released the list of exhibitors for Indian Market.  I'm starting to get excited!  I've compiled a list of booths I definitely want to check out/prioritize, including a few artists I learned about from you guys on this thread:  David and Alice Lister, Cody Sanderson, and Jennifer Curtis.  I love Cody Sanderson's rock 'n roll vibe; I'd love to get something of his.  And Joseph D. Coriz is back, one of my favorite current artists who does awesome overlay that I posted about earlier.  And I'm so so excited about the antique show and some of the other dealers that will be in town (like Browns and Mark Sublette, both of whom I also learned about on this thread).  I just don't know how I'm going to balance all the things I want and not spend too much money.  Things I'm especially looking for are a high quality heishe or heishe/tab necklace, a depression era kewa necklace, and a concho belt.  Oh, and another older squash.  Ahhh, I want it all!


----------



## jellyv

chessmont said:


> interesting!  I did not know there was turquoise found in Persia.


Persian is _the _classical turquoise of history (mined in Iran of course)--the famed clear robin's egg blue that has always been considered valuable and beautiful. That material is free of matrix, but in NA jewelry you typically see it with pretty webbed matrix.  Been used in NA jewelry for a very long time.

The word "turquoise" for the mineral comes from "Turkish," because Turkey was where Persian turq was sold/traded to Europeans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turquoise


----------



## chessmont

jellyv said:


> Persian is _the _classical turquoise of history (mined in Iran of course)--the famed clear robin's egg blue that has always been considered valuable and beautiful. That material is free of matrix, but in NA jewelry you typically see it with pretty webbed matrix.  Been used in NA jewelry for a very long time.
> 
> The word "turquoise" for the mineral comes from "Turkish," because Turkey was where Persian turq was sold/traded to Europeans.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turquoise


Wow!  I have a lot to learn!


----------



## Compass Rose

I miss going to the Indian Market so very much.  I mean, we can always make a trip, but the fun part for us was that when our family was living in Santa Fe, we could be right in the thick of it all day long.  The plaza was just electric!  We would go for Spanish Market, too.  And it was fun to watch Esteban perform in the plaza.   The people were friendly and smiling and the women would be wearing their entire jewelry box just to be seen.  I wanted to be one of those women every time.  Now that our family moved to a different part of the country, we kind of stopped going during that time.  Trying to get a room at LaFonda or anywhere on the plaza  is just next to impossible during that time, unless you book almost 2 years in advance.  If any of you gals go, tell me about it so I can live through you this year......


----------



## Compass Rose

Orbit....you should try looking at the Inn of the Governors for some beautiful heishe or heishe/tab necklaces that are sold right off the blankets by the Native Americans.  I have seen some wonderful pieces sold like that.


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> In other good news, SWAIA has released the list of exhibitors for Indian Market.  I'm starting to get excited!  I've compiled a list of booths I definitely want to check out/prioritize, including a few artists I learned about from you guys on this thread:  David and Alice Lister, Cody Sanderson, and Jennifer Curtis.  I love Cody Sanderson's rock 'n roll vibe; I'd love to get something of his. all!


Not to be tedious but in case you missed seeing these, my Cody Sanderson pieces, a ring and earrings (also shown is my beloved Jennifer C cuff). I wear the heck out of these things.

https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/sterling-silver-thread.885777/page-2#post-29358248

https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-15#post-28951304


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> Orbit....you should try looking at the Inn of the Governors for some beautiful heishe or heishe/tab necklaces that are sold right off the blankets by the Native Americans.  I have seen some wonderful pieces sold like that.



Yes, it is hard to get a room in Santa Fe for market.  I lucked out in 2017 and got a room at a hotel just off the square that I booked a year ahead of time.  This year I got a house through VRBO and didn't have to book as far in advance but it's also a little farther from the plaza.  I agree about the NA vendors program at the Palace of the Governers--I will definitely be checking that out as well.  Before I go I want to re-watch the beginning of Two-Lane Blacktop, a movie from 1971.  It starts in Santa Fe and has a scene where you can see the Native American vendor program in the background.  And it's real because they just shot on location with a low budget--cool to see it in the 70's.


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Not to be tedious but in case you missed seeing these, my Cody Sanderson pieces, a ring and earrings (also shown is my beloved Jennifer C cuff). I wear the heck out of these things.
> 
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/sterling-silver-thread.885777/page-2#post-29358248
> 
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/real-native-american-jewelry.864169/page-15#post-28951304



Yes!  I remember the Cody Sanderson earrings and ring, but I don't think I saw the Jennifer Curtis cuff before.  I think I missed the sterling silver thread.  I love it!  And it goes so well with the ring.  It's kind of similar to this bracelet that's on the Indian Market website as an example of Cody Sanderson's work, which I'm in love with.  I need some good repousse in my life.


----------



## Compass Rose

Oh, my, my.......I am going to kick back with a glass of wine this evening and revisit everything!


----------



## OrbitOrange

I got a couple of special pieces recently that I wanted to share:

First, a vintage Alice Quam pin/pendant.  I've been wanting something by her in coral and this definitely fit the bill.  It's a little more than 2 inches across.  I might have to purchase some new beads to properly show this one off.  
	

		
			
		

		
	





And second, a vintage Zuni squash blossom necklace.  It's definitely in the Dishta style that we've discussed before, and it was represented to me as being by Frank Dishta Sr., which I have no reason to doubt.   Definitely excited about these two!


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I got a couple of special pieces recently that I wanted to share:
> 
> First, a vintage Alice Quam pin/pendant.
> And second, a vintage Zuni squash blossom necklace.



VERY exciting additions to your already fab collection! I so admire your collecting approach, focused as you are on the very best quality. Simply stunning, and of course fine pieces like these don't come inexpensively, but time has shown that the great things appreciate in value, often significantly and fairly quickly.  You won't have to do much upgrading ever! Just look at all that lapidary work in these two Zuni masterpieces.

 You had mentioned that you have your eye on a concha belt. I thought of you when I spotted this recently. These folks are the successors to Marti Struever's site; the main owner worked with Marti for quite a while. This tasty belt is nicely scaled and by the hard-to-find Austin (Ike) Wilson:
https://turquoiseandtufa.com/collec...oncho-belt-by-old-navajo-master-austin-wilson

I'm glad to be heading to NM in just a few weeks.


----------



## Compass Rose

Sooooo beautiful!  Congratulatioins on your extraordinary pUrchase, Orbit!


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> VERY exciting additions to your already fab collection! I so admire your collecting approach, focused as you are on the very best quality. Simply stunning, and of course fine pieces like these don't come inexpensively, but time has shown that the great things appreciate in value, often significantly and fairly quickly.  You won't have to do much upgrading ever! Just look at all that lapidary work in these two Zuni masterpieces.
> 
> You had mentioned that you have your eye on a concha belt. I thought of you when I spotted this recently. These folks are the successors to Marti Struever's site; the main owner worked with Marti for quite a while. This tasty belt is nicely scaled and by the hard-to-find Austin (Ike) Wilson:
> https://turquoiseandtufa.com/collec...oncho-belt-by-old-navajo-master-austin-wilson
> 
> I'm glad to be heading to NM in just a few weeks.





Compass Rose said:


> Sooooo beautiful!  Congratulatioins on your extraordinary pUrchase, Orbit!



Thanks guys!  As I said I'm really excited about these ones.  No, I doubt that I'll ever want to upgrade them 

Compass, did you you pick out anything fun on your recent trip?

Jelly--it's funny that you mention that Austin Wilson belt, because I was checking out another belt by him:
https://www.brownstrading.com/BEAUTIFUL-1940-s-AUSTIN-WILSON-CONCHO-BELT-p/cdvco1.htm
They look to be similarly sized belts and the same price.  I don't know about Austin (Ike) Wilson but perhaps I will have to learn.  

I can't wait to see what you come up with on your trip!


----------



## jellyv

OrbitOrange said:


> I don't know about Austin (Ike) Wilson but perhaps I will have to learn.
> 
> I can't wait to see what you come up with on your trip!



Austin Wilson was one of C. G. Wallace's smiths, very important midcentury maker, and of course the Wallace artists are among the most legendary. BTW a book you'd appreciate is _Blue Gem, White Metal, a_bout the C G Wallace jewelry and smiths. Hard to find but a nice addition.
---
I'm not going with a shopping list, mostly interested in seeing who's new and exciting in the market... also will be looking at the really early stuff.


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I got a couple of special pieces recently that I wanted to share:
> 
> First, a vintage Alice Quam pin/pendant.  I've been wanting something by her in coral and this definitely fit the bill.  It's a little more than 2 inches across.  I might have to purchase some new beads to properly show this one off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4526748
> View attachment 4526749
> 
> 
> And second, a vintage Zuni squash blossom necklace.  It's definitely in the Dishta style that we've discussed before, and it was represented to me as being by Frank Dishta Sr., which I have no reason to doubt.   Definitely excited about these two!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4526751
> View attachment 4526752



OMG spectacular pieces!  And I could swear I've seen that squash blossom somewhere?  From where did you purchase it (if I am not being too nosy)?  I am having to be very good for a long, long, while.  A couple of very expensive homeowner's repairs to do....


----------



## Compass Rose

Hi, all.......our Southwest trip into the Grand Canyon and Sedona came and went and we are sorry that we chose to do such a whirlwind trip in one week.  We visited Jerome and bought a really pretty print from a local gallery there and we are getting it framed as I write this.  We also bought two prints at a co-op gallery in Williams.  And while we were there, I purchased a really pretty Royston turquoise ring from one of jewelry shops there.  We drooled at the artwork and jewelry in Sedona, and we never made it to Garlands because they closed at 5pm and all our excursions ended after closing hours.  I am just glad to be back so I can catch up with this thread!


----------



## OrbitOrange

jellyv said:


> Austin Wilson was one of C. G. Wallace's smiths, very important midcentury maker, and of course the Wallace artists are among the most legendary. BTW a book you'd appreciate is _Blue Gem, White Metal, a_bout the C G Wallace jewelry and smiths. Hard to find but a nice addition.
> ---
> I'm not going with a shopping list, mostly interested in seeing who's new and exciting in the market... also will be looking at the really early stuff.



I'll have to add that book to my list.  I just googled it and it does look hard to find though.  I'll keep it in mind in case I come across it somewhere.  I would definitely love to learn more about the C.G. Wallace smiths.


----------



## OrbitOrange

chessmont said:


> OMG spectacular pieces!  And I could swear I've seen that squash blossom somewhere?  From where did you purchase it (if I am not being too nosy)?  I am having to be very good for a long, long, while.  A couple of very expensive homeowner's repairs to do....



I got the squash from Brown's Trading.  You only have to be good until you find that next piece that you absolutely can't live without!


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> Hi, all.......our Southwest trip into the Grand Canyon and Sedona came and went and we are sorry that we chose to do such a whirlwind trip in one week.  We visited Jerome and bought a really pretty print from a local gallery there and we are getting it framed as I write this.  We also bought two prints at a co-op gallery in Williams.  And while we were there, I purchased a really pretty Royston turquoise ring from one of jewelry shops there.  We drooled at the artwork and jewelry in Sedona, and we never made it to Garlands because they closed at 5pm and all our excursions ended after closing hours.  I am just glad to be back so I can catch up with this thread!



Picture of the Royston ring please!


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I got the squash from Brown's Trading.  You only have to be good until you find that next piece that you absolutely can't live without!



Ah yes, I went to the website and I think I saw your necklace - Frank Dishta, right?  Though a little hard to see this, it did describe the stones as inlaid, and I recognize the slightly different color of the top stone of the nana.  Just stunning!


----------



## chessmont

OrbitOrange said:


> I got the squash from Brown's Trading.  You only have to be good until you find that next piece that you absolutely can't live without!


Oh no, have to be very very good until the NA purchases are paid off from my CCs!


----------



## Compass Rose

You know those hand models with perfect nails and long perfect fingers?  Well, I just cannot do that... but, this is the ring I purchased in Williams right near the Grand Canyon Railroad station, where we spent a night before the train ride to the Canyon.  It is a vibrant color and highly polished.  Contemporary....


----------



## Wildflower

My mother bought so much turquoise back in the 1970's when we were in Arizona. I cannot remember anything about this necklace -- it was her favorite, even over the squash blossom necklaces and many others. (I have all of it now.) She wore it a lot and was even offered $1,000 for it by a jeweler at a show. The next time he saw her with it on he offered her more. Does anybody know what kind of turquoise this is? And how would I begin to clean the silver on this without ruining the turquoise? I've quit wearing it because it's so tarnished and I'm afraid to clean it!


----------



## OrbitOrange

Wildflower said:


> My mother bought so much turquoise back in the 1970's when we were in Arizona. I cannot remember anything about this necklace -- it was her favorite, even over the squash blossom necklaces and many others. (I have all of it now.) She wore it a lot and was even offered $1,000 for it by a jeweler at a show. The next time he saw her with it on he offered her more. Does anybody know what kind of turquoise this is? And how would I begin to clean the silver on this without ruining the turquoise? I've quit wearing it because it's so tarnished and I'm afraid to clean it!



Beutiful necklace!  I can't help you with identifying the type of turquoise but it is a beautiful vibrant blue color.  I'm wondering if it's Sleeping Beauty, since the color is so bright and the matrix appears to be light.  But that's just a guess.  As for polishing it, get a cloth polishing cloth for silver and gently rub the beads.  It will not hurt the stones if you touch them a little with the cloth.


----------



## Compass Rose

Wildflower said:


> My mother bought so much turquoise back in the 1970's when we were in Arizona. I cannot remember anything about this necklace -- it was her favorite, even over the squash blossom necklaces and many others. (I have all of it now.) She wore it a lot and was even offered $1,000 for it by a jeweler at a show. The next time he saw her with it on he offered her more. Does anybody know what kind of turquoise this is? And how would I begin to clean the silver on this without ruining the turquoise? I've quit wearing it because it's so tarnished and I'm afraid to clean it!


That necklace is worth a lot more than the $1000 you were offered, I can tell you that much.  And I agree with OrbitOrange....I think it is Sleeping Beauty for it's vibrant blue colors.  The only thing that I also have to say here is that I don't think I would polish the silver.  I think it is meant to have a patina....but that is personal choice.  I hope you wear this fabulous piece, Wildflower...


----------



## OrbitOrange

Compass Rose said:


> You know those hand models with perfect nails and long perfect fingers?  Well, I just cannot do that... but, this is the ring I purchased in Williams right near the Grand Canyon Railroad station, where we spent a night before the train ride to the Canyon.  It is a vibrant color and highly polished.  Contemporary....



Very nice!  I like that style of turquoise ring that keeps the silverwork relatively simple (but still distinctively Navajo) and really emphasizes the stone.  Both the ring and your hand look great!


----------



## Wildflower

OrbitOrange said:


> Beutiful necklace!  I can't help you with identifying the type of turquoise but it is a beautiful vibrant blue color.  I'm wondering if it's Sleeping Beauty, since the color is so bright and the matrix appears to be light.  But that's just a guess.  As for polishing it, get a cloth polishing cloth for silver and gently rub the beads.  It will not hurt the stones if you touch them a little with the cloth.


Thank you for the reply! I looked up Sleeping Beauty and it's so hard to tell just from looking at Google images. I'll keep looking and I'm happy I have a starting point now! 

I did try a polishing cloth and it wouldn't touch the tarnish so maybe there is a better kind out there.

Thanks again!


----------



## Wildflower

Compass Rose said:


> That necklace is worth a lot more than the $1000 you were offered, I can tell you that much.  And I agree with OrbitOrange....I think it is Sleeping Beauty for it's vibrant blue colors.  The only thing that I also have to say here is that I don't think I would polish the silver.  I think it is meant to have a patina....but that is personal choice.  I hope you wear this fabulous piece, Wildflower...


Thank you for the reply! I used to wear it all the time until the silver turned. It doesn't "pop" anymore with the patina so I'm going to keep trying to clean it. 

My mother would not have sold it for that price! She purchased 3 Squash Blossom necklaces, 2 of them were very similar and she paid $100 each for them at the time. Five years later she sold one of them to her best friend for the price she paid -- $100. Regretted it so much and it was really supposed to be MINE. At the time I was a young teen and extremely interested in anything Native American from history to jewelry (still am!) and the turquoise pieces my parents bought me are some of my most cherished pieces to this day. And when my mother died, all her jewelry came to me including the turquoise. I can't wear a lot of it because she had much tinier wrists and fingers than me.


----------



## OrbitOrange

Wildflower said:


> Thank you for the reply! I looked up Sleeping Beauty and it's so hard to tell just from looking at Google images. I'll keep looking and I'm happy I have a starting point now!
> 
> I did try a polishing cloth and it wouldn't touch the tarnish so maybe there is a better kind out there.
> 
> Thanks again!



It's very hard to identify turquoise and I find it even more so with nuggets like yours as opposed to cabochons.  As for the polishing cloths, some are impregnated with a material that helps to rub off tarnish while others are just simple cloth.  If you get one of the anti-tarnish cloths it should work to polish up sterling.  However, I don't disagree with Compass that it looks great as is with a little patina on it.  That's a shame that your mom sold the one squash blossom--I would be mad too.  Hopefully at least the other one came to you.


----------



## jellyv

The necklace is very attractive, Wildflower. It's hard to guess the turquoise...I would guess possibly stabilized Kingman.  The reason I'm not persuaded by Sleeping Beauty is that it would have been a very uncharacteristic use of Sleeping Beauty, which is cabbed out expressly for its clear, unmatrixed blue quality.  And here the matrix is def part of the look.
Kingman rough before polishing etc:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/245688...ugget-not?ref=pla_similar_listing_top-1&frs=1

It's a little risky to use a chemical-imbued cloth on the silver because that stuff shouldn't get near your stones. I've tried lots of cloths and find the Sunshine cloth the best for getting after tarnish, but again, I would be seriously judicious if not paranoid about using it near turquoise. I'd just use a mild polishing cloth and take off a little of the patina if that's important to you.

The value now wouldn't be close to what that jeweler is said to have offered, I believe. There's just no specific market for that style, especially if it is stabilized turq. If you'd like another set of eyes on that aspect, try posting on Turquoise People forum.


----------



## jellyv

Compass Rose said:


> this is the ring I purchased in Williams right near the Grand Canyon Railroad station, where we spent a night before the train ride to the Canyon.  .


Gorgeous, congrats! I love that high-domed cab.


----------



## Wildflower

jellyv said:


> The necklace is very attractive, Wildflower. It's hard to guess the turquoise...I would guess possibly stabilized Kingman.  The reason I'm not persuaded by Sleeping Beauty is that it would have been a very uncharacteristic use of Sleeping Beauty, which is cabbed out expressly for its clear, unmatrixed blue quality.  And here the matrix is def part of the look.
> Kingman rough before polishing etc:
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/245688...ugget-not?ref=pla_similar_listing_top-1&frs=1
> 
> It's a little risky to use a chemical-imbued cloth on the silver because that stuff shouldn't get near your stones. I've tried lots of cloths and find the Sunshine cloth the best for getting after tarnish, but again, I would be seriously judicious if not paranoid about using it near turquoise. I'd just use a mild polishing cloth and take off a little of the patina if that's important to you.
> 
> The value now wouldn't be close to what that jeweler is said to have offered, I believe. There's just no specific market for that style, especially if it is stabilized turq. If you'd like another set of eyes on that aspect, try posting on Turquoise People forum.



Thank you for replying! I'm learning more tonight than I've ever known with a little bit of info to go on. I think you may be correct -- stabilized Kingman seems to be what it is at least from photos I've found. I also found a photo of a ring with stabilized Kingman on an informational site that is identical to one I have as well.  

Until now, I did not know about stabilized and un-stabilized turquoise. Or what matrix is. SO interesting! I have a lot to learn!

I will check out the Turquoise People forum, too -- thank you!


----------



## Wildflower

A photo of a couple of rings and a bracelet that my parents gave me when I was a teenager but purchased in the late 60's/early 70's. Arizona or New Mexico. The ring on the right is green instead of blue. Would that be turquoise or another stone?


----------



## Compass Rose

Wildflower said:


> A photo of a couple of rings and a bracelet that my parents gave me when I was a teenager but purchased in the late 60's/early 70's. Arizona or New Mexico. The ring on the right is green instead of blue. Would that be turquoise or another stone?


Stunning pieces!!


----------



## OrbitOrange

Wildflower said:


> A photo of a couple of rings and a bracelet that my parents gave me when I was a teenager but purchased in the late 60's/early 70's. Arizona or New Mexico. The ring on the right is green instead of blue. Would that be turquoise or another stone?



Really pretty--I especially like the sandcast ring on the left.  Yes, they are all turquoise.  Turquoise varies a lot in color.  It is the presence of copper in the stone that gives it the blue color, but some turquoise has less copper and greater amounts of zinc and iron which give it a greener hue.  Also, older stones tend to turn greenish with time, due to oils from your skin, or soap, ect. getting into the stone.  I think that your green stone mostly started out that color, although it may have changed some with time, and is really pretty.


----------



## OrbitOrange

GoStanford said:


> Too beautiful not to share.  These are from the ongoing July sale on Horsekeeping's website.
> 
> First is an inlay ring of a Zuni maiden by artist Theresa Waseta.  Apparently she made several of these rings, with inlay material including turquoise, spiny oyster, jet, black onyx, and/or mother of pearl.  Joyce Waseta, her daughter, continues the tradition.
> View attachment 4487393
> 
> 
> Next is an unsigned turquoise petit point ring from a large collection that the website is in the process of selling.  I read their care tips and used a toothpick to clean some of the surface dirt out, followed by a dry toothbrush between the stones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4487395


 
GoStanford, I thought you might be interested to know that a pendant by Theresa Waseta like your ring is featured in the book "Zuni Jewelry" by Thelma and Michael Bassman.  




Also, the matching necklace and earring set by Joyce is on the Perry Null site.

https://perrynulltrading.com/joyce-waseta-necklace-olla-maiden-turquoise-jet-coral-shell-zuni-27


----------



## sdkitty

Compass Rose said:


> Here is a picture of two bracelets I have and I stack them all the time with other silver bracelets that I got over decades of travel to Mexico.  The one closest to my hand is a bracelet I bought from Nizhoni Traders in Tucson.  The only hallmark on it is "Arizona" and "Navajo" and Sterling. The second one is a Simplicio that I bought in Santa Fe back in 2005.  Funny thing is, I had it on when I went into Samsville about 2 years ago and the gentleman behind the counter asked me if I knew if my bracelet was made by Dan....but I had no idea at all who made it.  I just liked it!  Anyway, seeing everyone's fabulous treasures makes me happy.  I wish I had a good idea for chessmont's belt...


so is Tucson a good place for shopping for Native American jewelry?  Looking for a reason to go there....never been to Tucson


----------



## OrbitOrange

sdkitty said:


> so is Tucson a good place for shopping for Native American jewelry?  Looking for a reason to go there....never been to Tucson



I've never been to Tucson so I can't really answer your question, but if you're looking for an excuse to go and you want to shop for NA jewelry go for the big gem and mineral show at the end of February.  I've heard there's tons of NA jewelry there, as well as gems, beads, and all other types of jewelry.  It's not just one location but takes over the whole town.  It's a huge deal and sounds like so much fun; I'd love to go sometime.


----------



## sdkitty

OrbitOrange said:


> I've never been to Tucson so I can't really answer your question, but if you're looking for an excuse to go and you want to shop for NA jewelry go for the big gem and mineral show at the end of February.  I've heard there's tons of NA jewelry there, as well as gems, beads, and all other types of jewelry.  It's not just one location but takes over the whole town.  It's a huge deal and sounds like so much fun; I'd love to go sometime.


that's an idea.....we're planning a road trip in November but maybe could go again in February
thanks


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## ZaneetaS

Hi everyone! I inherited what I *think* is Native American jewelry from my grandma when she passed last year. She had these pieces for as long as I can recall — so they are definitely vintage, I’m just not personally knowledgeable enough to confidently say they’re all authentic. I wanted to share them here — they all need a good cleaning, but I’m wary about damaging them so I’ve put it off. I hope you enjoy seeing them! Also, if you have any insight into what they are or where from, I’d be thrilled to hear it. (I’ve included the signatures/makers marks when possible.)


----------



## Compass Rose

ZaneetaS said:


> Hi everyone! I inherited what I *think* is Native American jewelry from my grandma when she passed last year. She had these pieces for as long as I can recall — so they are definitely vintage, I’m just not personally knowledgeable enough to confidently say they’re all authentic. I wanted to share them here — they all need a good cleaning, but I’m wary about damaging them so I’ve put it off. I hope you enjoy seeing them! Also, if you have any insight into what they are or where from, I’d be thrilled to hear it. (I’ve included the signatures/makers marks when possible.)
> 
> View attachment 4549033
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Such gorgeous pieces!  All I know are two things.....one...that I love all native american jewelry, and two.....I just know what I like, so I can't help you, but those pieces are handcrafted and are old.  My only advice is to not polish them at all.  The patina is what makes it so beautiful, as well as that large piece of turquoise.


----------



## essiedub

ZaneetaS said:


> Hi everyone! I inherited what I *think* is Native American jewelry from my grandma when she passed last year. She had these pieces for as long as I can recall — so they are definitely vintage, I’m just not personally knowledgeable enough to confidently say they’re all authentic. I wanted to share them here — they all need a good cleaning, but I’m wary about damaging them so I’ve put it off. I hope you enjoy seeing them! Also, if you have any insight into what they are or where from, I’d be thrilled to hear it. (I’ve included the signatures/makers marks when possible.)
> 
> View attachment 4549033
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These are really awesome. I don't  know enough to give anything definitive. I think the cuff with the carvings look northwestern. The one with the square pendant is marked Mexico. The one with the guy climbing a rock is really cool..not certain if that’s  called a Kokopelli..but its very interesting.  Assuming the 1st and last are the same one? Love that one a lot. Will you please model for us?


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## ZaneetaS

Compass Rose said:


> Such gorgeous pieces!  All I know are two things.....one...that I love all native american jewelry, and two.....I just know what I like, so I can't help you, but those pieces are handcrafted and are old.  My only advice is to not polish them at all.  The patina is what makes it so beautiful, as well as that large piece of turquoise.



Thank you! I’m so glad you like them, it’s fun to be able to share them.  I will take your advice about cleaning, I would be horrified if I were to accidentally damage them.


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## ZaneetaS

essiedub said:


> These are really awesome. I don't  know enough to give anything definitive. I think the cuff with the carvings look northwestern. The one with the square pendant is marked Mexico. The one with the guy climbing a rock is really cool..not certain if that’s  called a Kokopelli..but its very interesting.  Assuming the 1st and last are the same one? Love that one a lot. Will you please model for us?



Of course! I’ll attach the photos below (including a necklace I forgot, which is turquoise nuggets between narrow silver tube beads). I tried to make them better quality so you can see the details, my photography skills are... not the best, ha. 

The cuff definitely stands out to me as separate in terms of style. It’s such a beautiful etching — I can definitely see the Northwestern connection in terms of the scenery, etc. 

The square one was my grandmothers favorite, she wore it nonstop. To be totally honest, I don’t know if that’s the original chain (from Mexico). It’s reversible, turquoise on one side and... some brown stones (that’s embarrassing, I just don’t know what they are) on the other. 

The first and last photos were from the same piece (the long square turquoise piece), which is beautiful. 

And I know nothing about the pendant of the man! I wish I did. Kokopelli seems like a good guess, though the pose isn’t the traditional one?

Anyway, I’m so glad you liked them and I appreciate your response!


----------



## essiedub

ZaneetaS said:


> Of course! I’ll attach the photos below (including a necklace I forgot, which is turquoise nuggets between narrow silver tube beads). I tried to make them better quality so you can see the details, my photography skills are... not the best, ha.
> 
> The cuff definitely stands out to me as separate in terms of style. It’s such a beautiful etching — I can definitely see the Northwestern connection in terms of the scenery, etc.
> 
> The square one was my grandmothers favorite, she wore it nonstop. To be totally honest, I don’t know if that’s the original chain (from Mexico). It’s reversible, turquoise on one side and... some brown stones (that’s embarrassing, I just don’t know what they are) on the other.
> 
> The first and last photos were from the same piece (the long square turquoise piece), which is beautiful.
> 
> And I know nothing about the pendant of the man! I wish I did. Kokopelli seems like a good guess, though the pose isn’t the traditional one?
> 
> Anyway, I’m so glad you liked them and I appreciate your response!
> 
> View attachment 4549955
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Oh WOW!! These look even better on!  I totally love that one with the long rectangular turquoise. It seems to have a squash blossom “horn” end piece. So cool. That reversible one is very unusual..coral perhaps or spiny oyster. Look at the size of that “kokopelli” guy! It really looks dramatic!  Your grandma selected well!  There are more knowledgeable people here who might identify style, tribe, and even age; I just enjoy looking at all the pieces everyone posts. Such a great art form.  Thanks for posting the modeling shots


----------



## OrbitOrange

ZaneetaS said:


> Of course! I’ll attach the photos below (including a necklace I forgot, which is turquoise nuggets between narrow silver tube beads). I tried to make them better quality so you can see the details, my photography skills are... not the best, ha.
> 
> The cuff definitely stands out to me as separate in terms of style. It’s such a beautiful etching — I can definitely see the Northwestern connection in terms of the scenery, etc.
> 
> The square one was my grandmothers favorite, she wore it nonstop. To be totally honest, I don’t know if that’s the original chain (from Mexico). It’s reversible, turquoise on one side and... some brown stones (that’s embarrassing, I just don’t know what they are) on the other.
> 
> The first and last photos were from the same piece (the long square turquoise piece), which is beautiful.
> 
> And I know nothing about the pendant of the man! I wish I did. Kokopelli seems like a good guess, though the pose isn’t the traditional one?
> 
> Anyway, I’m so glad you liked them and I appreciate your response!
> 
> View attachment 4549955
> View attachment 4549956
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Welcome and thanks for sharing your grandmother’s jewelry.  It is beautiful and looks great on you!  Definitely a special way to remember her.  I’ll tell you as much as I can about each piece. 

The first necklace is a mix of bead types that I don’t know if I have seen together like this before.  The small tan beads are made of shell and called heishe, and they are strung with silver “Navajo pearls” and turquoise nuggets.  Heishe is very desirable when it is all done by hand as it’s a time-consuming process, but I haven’t developed the skill yet to distinguish handmade from manufactured heishe.  The center rectangular turquoise stone with silver caps is very unusual.  The somewhat eclectic style of this necklace makes me think 70’s, and if I had to guess I would say this was assembled from purchased parts, possibly by a Navajo artist.  The sun mark on the silver cone beads is not an artist’s hallmark but a decoration that is commonly found on manufactured beads of that shape.           

The bracelet is scrimshaw, or at least made to look like scrimshaw—etchings on bone or ivory.  This is something I know almost nothing about, but I think that it is commonly done on composite (plastic) material in place of real bone or ivory.  You might be able to tap it on your teeth to get an idea if it’s plastic or not.  I haven’t known Native Americans to work in this style but I suppose it’s possible for Pacific Northwest indigenous artists.                                   

The third necklace with the dancing human figure and inlay stones is Native American.  I would not call the figure a Kokopelli (who is almost always depicted as a humpback playing a flute) although I can see the similarity.  The bird symbol on the back is a pictograph artist’s hallmark.  I feel like I have seen this one before but wasn’t able to find it in my hallmark book.  The stones are jet, turquoise, and coral.  It is on a handmade chain as well which is nice. 

The rectangular pendant was likely added to the filigree style Mexican chain by your grandmother; it was probably purchased as just a pendant.  I think that the pendant is Native American but I’m also wondering if it could possibly be Mexican?  It looks to me to be handmade and hand stamped.  I’m pretty sure the top and bottom stones on the back are coral but I’m not sure what that middle stone is. 

Those long silver tubes on the last necklace are manufactured.  This, like the first one, may be assembled by a Native American artist out of purchased parts.  Or, it could be “Southwest Style,” meaning not Native American made. 

As far as cleaning, you would not damage them if you were to polish them to your liking with a cloth.  Don’t dip or use creams.  The look you prefer is really up to individual preference.  A lot of people do like vintage pieces to have a patina though, so if you’re planning on selling it’s always best to avoid polishing and let the buyer decide. 

Hope this helps!


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> Welcome and thanks for sharing your grandmother’s jewelry.  It is beautiful and looks great on you!  Definitely a special way to remember her.  I’ll tell you as much as I can about each piece.
> 
> The first necklace is a mix of bead types that I don’t know if I have seen together like this before.  The small tan beads are made of shell and called heishe, and they are strung with silver “Navajo pearls” and turquoise nuggets.  Heishe is very desirable when it is all done by hand as it’s a time-consuming process, but I haven’t developed the skill yet to distinguish handmade from manufactured heishe.  The center rectangular turquoise stone with silver caps is very unusual.  The somewhat eclectic style of this necklace makes me think 70’s, and if I had to guess I would say this was assembled from purchased parts, possibly by a Navajo artist.  The sun mark on the silver cone beads is not an artist’s hallmark but a decoration that is commonly found on manufactured beads of that shape.
> 
> The bracelet is scrimshaw, or at least made to look like scrimshaw—etchings on bone or ivory.  This is something I know almost nothing about, but I think that it is commonly done on composite (plastic) material in place of real bone or ivory.  You might be able to tap it on your teeth to get an idea if it’s plastic or not.  I haven’t known Native Americans to work in this style but I suppose it’s possible for Pacific Northwest indigenous artists.
> 
> The third necklace with the dancing human figure and inlay stones is Native American.  I would not call the figure a Kokopelli (who is almost always depicted as a humpback playing a flute) although I can see the similarity.  The bird symbol on the back is a pictograph artist’s hallmark.  I feel like I have seen this one before but wasn’t able to find it in my hallmark book.  The stones are jet, turquoise, and coral.  It is on a handmade chain as well which is nice.
> 
> The rectangular pendant was likely added to the filigree style Mexican chain by your grandmother; it was probably purchased as just a pendant.  I think that the pendant is Native American but I’m also wondering if it could possibly be Mexican?  It looks to me to be handmade and hand stamped.  I’m pretty sure the top and bottom stones on the back are coral but I’m not sure what that middle stone is.
> 
> Those long silver tubes on the last necklace are manufactured.  This, like the first one, may be assembled by a Native American artist out of purchased parts.  Or, it could be “Southwest Style,” meaning not Native American made.
> 
> As far as cleaning, you would not damage them if you were to polish them to your liking with a cloth.  Don’t dip or use creams.  The look you prefer is really up to individual preference.  A lot of people do like vintage pieces to have a patina though, so if you’re planning on selling it’s always best to avoid polishing and let the buyer decide.
> 
> Hope this helps!




Scrimshaw - yes that’s what it’s called..my memory erg.
I didn’t know much about heishe beads. Thanks for that info.
Yes not kokopelli.. they must all have some name/designation. 
I really need to get a book and get better educated. I keep thinking that I’ll learn more when I make my pilgrimage to NM and touch and feel these things in perso. Meanwhile this forum and the Turquoise People forum is my learning !


----------



## ZaneetaS

OrbitOrange said:


> Welcome and thanks for sharing your grandmother’s jewelry.  It is beautiful and looks great on you!  Definitely a special way to remember her.  I’ll tell you as much as I can about each piece.
> 
> The first necklace is a mix of bead types that I don’t know if I have seen together like this before.  The small tan beads are made of shell and called heishe, and they are strung with silver “Navajo pearls” and turquoise nuggets.  Heishe is very desirable when it is all done by hand as it’s a time-consuming process, but I haven’t developed the skill yet to distinguish handmade from manufactured heishe.  The center rectangular turquoise stone with silver caps is very unusual.  The somewhat eclectic style of this necklace makes me think 70’s, and if I had to guess I would say this was assembled from purchased parts, possibly by a Navajo artist.  The sun mark on the silver cone beads is not an artist’s hallmark but a decoration that is commonly found on manufactured beads of that shape.
> 
> The bracelet is scrimshaw, or at least made to look like scrimshaw—etchings on bone or ivory.  This is something I know almost nothing about, but I think that it is commonly done on composite (plastic) material in place of real bone or ivory.  You might be able to tap it on your teeth to get an idea if it’s plastic or not.  I haven’t known Native Americans to work in this style but I suppose it’s possible for Pacific Northwest indigenous artists.
> 
> The third necklace with the dancing human figure and inlay stones is Native American.  I would not call the figure a Kokopelli (who is almost always depicted as a humpback playing a flute) although I can see the similarity.  The bird symbol on the back is a pictograph artist’s hallmark.  I feel like I have seen this one before but wasn’t able to find it in my hallmark book.  The stones are jet, turquoise, and coral.  It is on a handmade chain as well which is nice.
> 
> The rectangular pendant was likely added to the filigree style Mexican chain by your grandmother; it was probably purchased as just a pendant.  I think that the pendant is Native American but I’m also wondering if it could possibly be Mexican?  It looks to me to be handmade and hand stamped.  I’m pretty sure the top and bottom stones on the back are coral but I’m not sure what that middle stone is.
> 
> Those long silver tubes on the last necklace are manufactured.  This, like the first one, may be assembled by a Native American artist out of purchased parts.  Or, it could be “Southwest Style,” meaning not Native American made.
> 
> As far as cleaning, you would not damage them if you were to polish them to your liking with a cloth.  Don’t dip or use creams.  The look you prefer is really up to individual preference.  A lot of people do like vintage pieces to have a patina though, so if you’re planning on selling it’s always best to avoid polishing and let the buyer decide.
> 
> Hope this helps!



Wow, thank you so much for your detailed input! I really appreciate it, it's great to have any additional information at all about these pieces. I'm not planning on selling, I want to give them to my daughter some day -- but I want to be able to tell her something about them, too, if possible! 

I lumped all of these pieces together as "Native American" on the basis of their style, which is... admittedly pretty ignorant on my part. I was likely wrong about many of them -- so I also appreciate your comments about that, in particular! I'm also just starting to learn about each of them, as well as Native American jewelry styles in general.

For some reason, I believe my father may have some additional info on the dancing man pendant. I will see if I can dig it out of his memory, ha. I can say, though, that I think you're dead-on about the necklace with the large turquoise piece being from the 70s -- my grandma lived in Santa Fe during the 70s/80s and that is when/where she got most of these pieces. 

And it's entirely possible that the dual-sided pendant is Mexican and I just assumed it was Native American bc of the turquoise -- not only is that chain from Mexico (which I am pretty sure it's the original one, assuming it came with one like you said) but my grandma also had other pieces that were definitely Mexican. So she collected a bit of those as well. 

Thank you again!


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Scrimshaw - yes that’s what it’s called..my memory erg.
> I didn’t know much about heishe beads. Thanks for that info.
> Yes not kokopelli.. they must all have some name/designation.
> I really need to get a book and get better educated. I keep thinking that I’ll learn more when I make my pilgrimage to NM and touch and feel these things in perso. Meanwhile this forum and the Turquoise People forum is my learning !



Here is a good article describing what goes into hand making heishe:
http://www.collectorsguide.com/fa/fa041.shtml


----------



## OrbitOrange

ZaneetaS said:


> Wow, thank you so much for your detailed input! I really appreciate it, it's great to have any additional information at all about these pieces. I'm not planning on selling, I want to give them to my daughter some day -- but I want to be able to tell her something about them, too, if possible!
> 
> I lumped all of these pieces together as "Native American" on the basis of their style, which is... admittedly pretty ignorant on my part. I was likely wrong about many of them -- so I also appreciate your comments about that, in particular! I'm also just starting to learn about each of them, as well as Native American jewelry styles in general.
> 
> For some reason, I believe my father may have some additional info on the dancing man pendant. I will see if I can dig it out of his memory, ha. I can say, though, that I think you're dead-on about the necklace with the large turquoise piece being from the 70s -- my grandma lived in Santa Fe during the 70s/80s and that is when/where she got most of these pieces.
> 
> And it's entirely possible that the dual-sided pendant is Mexican and I just assumed it was Native American bc of the turquoise -- not only is that chain from Mexico (which I am pretty sure it's the original one, assuming it came with one like you said) but my grandma also had other pieces that were definitely Mexican. So she collected a bit of those as well.
> 
> Thank you again!



You're welcome, I'm glad to be of any help.  I don't think it was ignorant of you to assume that they were all Native American, they definitely all have that feel and for all I know they could be.  It can be difficult, if not impossible though, to say with certainty that something is Native American made if it is not hallmarked.  That's why for the two unhallmarked necklaces I say they could be Southwestern Style, which is basically in the style of Native American jewelry but not made by a Native American.  For the rectangular pendant I am leaning towards Native American vs. Mexican, although that too could theoretically be Southwestern Style since we just don't know.  And the scrimshaw bracelet like I said could be Pacific Northwest for all I know; I am just more familiar with the southwestern tribes jewelry styles.  

If you find out anything more from your dad about the dancing man pendant let us know!


----------



## Compass Rose

I just love this thread.


----------



## lanit

@essiedub asked me to post my two heritage pieces handed down to me from my father when he passed away. My post is on Scarf of the Day thread here. 

https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...wearing-today.1002401/page-1058#post-33458900


Both pieces were gifts from NA friends sometime in the 1960's that were treasured by my father. I believe they are Navajo..


----------



## essiedub

lanit said:


> @essiedub asked me to post my two heritage pieces handed down to me from my father when he passed away. My post is on Scarf of the Day thread here.
> 
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...wearing-today.1002401/page-1058#post-33458900
> 
> 
> Both pieces were gifts from NA friends sometime in the 1960's that were treasured by my father. I believe they are Navajo..
> 
> View attachment 4599811
> 
> View attachment 4599812
> 
> View attachment 4599810



oh *Lanit* thanks for stopping in! I love your squash blossom! So beautiful! Is it heavy on the neck? I also spy a big turquoise cuff! You look great!  How do you style your concha belt? Do you think  it would be too much to wear the Kermit Oliver scarves with the NA pieces? The only one I have is the turkey. I am dying for the Pani scarf..not even sure if its Kermit’s. Thanks for posting!


----------



## lanit

essiedub said:


> oh *Lanit* thanks for stopping in! I love your squash blossom! So beautiful! Is it heavy on the neck? I also spy a big turquoise cuff! You look great!  How do you style your concha belt? Do you think  it would be too much to wear the Kermit Oliver scarves with the NA pieces? The only one I have is the turkey. I am dying for the Pani scarf..not even sure if its Kermit’s. Thanks for posting!


Hi Essie, I am so glad you referred me to this thread. I rarely visit outside of H forums lol. My head is always wrapped up in the silks and artistry of them. I find the squash blossom heavy and really don't wear it very often. It is a stunning piece. I would only wear it with a 14 shawl draped around the shoulder as a shrug and really like it by itself. The belt can be worn with scarves and I do wear them together only during this time of year. The family love to visit and see the pieces our on display or worn. The leather strap is getting so old and dried, I need to find a leathercraftsman who can cut a new belt strap for it!

Yes, Pani La Shar is Kermit Oliver design. It was my first KO scarf and found on the Bay at a song.


----------



## Winter4

essiedub said:


> oh *Lanit* thanks for stopping in! I love your squash blossom! So beautiful! Is it heavy on the neck? I also spy a big turquoise cuff! You look great!  How do you style your concha belt? Do you think  it would be too much to wear the Kermit Oliver scarves with the NA pieces? The only one I have is the turkey. I am dying for the Pani scarf..not even sure if its Kermit’s. Thanks for posting!


Pani is Kermit Oliver and is for sale new on Hermes.com in the wash texture.


----------



## Compass Rose

lanit said:


> @essiedub asked me to post my two heritage pieces handed down to me from my father when he passed away. My post is on Scarf of the Day thread here.
> 
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...wearing-today.1002401/page-1058#post-33458900
> 
> 
> Both pieces were gifts from NA friends sometime in the 1960's that were treasured by my father. I believe they are Navajo..
> 
> View attachment 4599811
> 
> View attachment 4599812
> 
> View attachment 4599810


Thank you so much for sharing these beautiful treasures.  They truly are stunning.


----------



## OrbitOrange

lanit said:


> @essiedub asked me to post my two heritage pieces handed down to me from my father when he passed away. My post is on Scarf of the Day thread here.
> 
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...wearing-today.1002401/page-1058#post-33458900
> 
> 
> Both pieces were gifts from NA friends sometime in the 1960's that were treasured by my father. I believe they are Navajo..
> 
> View attachment 4599811
> 
> View attachment 4599812
> 
> View attachment 4599810



Wow, these are gorgeous.  Thanks for sharing!  I especially love that belt!  I can't quite tell the scale of it but from your picture it appears big, which I love.  Love the bracelet too-and you style it all so well!


----------



## essiedub

Time to revive this thread! I stopped in at a local shop today and found some interesting pieces. I’m trying not to be impulsive but I really like both of these cuffs. The turquoise one is very heavy and has no sterling mark. The other just looks cool..like a cityscape with some story. It’s marked with  a diamond ♦️N. Blu (or bla or? Last letter isn’t   clear)  I think it’s more contemporary tufa? But also no sterling stamp.  Please share your thoughts!


----------



## Compass Rose

Hi, essie!  Those are two beauties for sure.  I am here to drool, and not to help, but the second bracelets just so reminded me of an early Ben Nighthorse piece.  I know it isn't, but it was the first thing that came to mind for me.  I have a couple of new pieces that I will post a bit later.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Hi, essie!  Those are two beauties for sure.  I am here to drool, and not to help, but the second bracelets just so reminded me of an early Ben Nighthorse piece.  I know it isn't, but it was the first thing that came to mind for me.  I have a couple of new pieces that I will post a bit later.



Ooh yes, please post your new goodies! 
Hmm. Thanks for the clue. Maybe looking under Ben Nighthorse will turn up something.  Off to research...


----------



## Compass Rose

Here are two new pieces I bought....the earrings are from Nizhoni Traders amd I bought the pendant in Sedona.  They are all Navaho and are hallmarked but very obscure....gotta research them....but I love spiney oyster shell and Sleeping Beauty together.


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Here are two new pieces I bought....the earrings are from Nizhoni Traders amd I bought the pendant in Sedona.  They are all Navaho and are hallmarked but very obscure....gotta research them....but I love spiney oyster shell and Sleeping Beauty together.


Whoa Nellie! So nice! I see what you mean about the colors of turquoise and the orange of the spiny oyster.  I think I might like it better than coral..at least onme, the cOral clashes with my skin tone. 

Please post a modeling shot!


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> Time to revive this thread! I stopped in at a local shop today and found some interesting pieces. I’m trying not to be impulsive but I really like both of these cuffs. The turquoise one is very heavy and has no sterling mark. The other just looks cool..like a cityscape with some story. It’s marked with  a diamond ♦️N. Blu (or bla or? Last letter isn’t   clear)  I think it’s more contemporary tufa? But also no sterling stamp.  Please share your thoughts!
> 
> View attachment 4648047
> View attachment 4648049



Oooh, nice!  I especially like the turquoise one.  I wouldn't be too worried about it not being stamped sterling--a lot of the older stuff wasn't marked at all.  The seller might have tested it for silver content and you could ask them, but it looks legit to me.  And I think it looks like pretty nice turquoise.  I like the matrix and the color of that center stone.  I'm not an expert at all at identifying turquoise but I could see this being American.  I saw you posted over on Turquoise People too and mentioned the one stone being greener.  I wouldn't worry at all about that; it's normal for turquoise to change color over time and that stone likely just changed more that the others.  A lot of people actually look for this in older jewelry since can be a sign that it's natural (untreated) turquoise, so may actually be considered a good thing.  Let us know what you decide!

I've gotten a few new pieces since this thread was last going; I'll have to post them soon.


----------



## OrbitOrange

A few new goodies I've gotten recently:

Navajo coral cluster ring.  Not sure quite how old this one is but it is big and well made.  



Circa 1950's Zuni petit point necklace, very delicate and pretty
	

		
			
		

		
	




Hand made, hand stamped Navajo pearls, contemporary, by artist Larry Pinto.  You can see a fine seam on each bead and tiny slight variations in the stamping, indicating that it is all hand done.  


Vintage bird inlay earrings, probably Zuni and about 1950's.  They are about an inch high.


----------



## essiedub

OrbitOrange said:


> A few new goodies I've gotten recently:
> 
> Navajo coral cluster ring.  Not sure quite how old this one is but it is big and well made.
> View attachment 4654288
> 
> 
> Circa 1950's Zuni petit point necklace, very delicate and pretty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4654294
> 
> 
> Hand made, hand stamped Navajo pearls, contemporary, by artist Larry Pinto.  You can see a fine seam on each bead and tiny slight variations in the stamping, indicating that it is all hand done.
> View attachment 4654298
> 
> Vintage bird inlay earrings, probably Zuni and about 1950's.  They are about an inch high.
> View attachment 4654299


So awesome *OrbitOrange*! Is that coral ring a Quam? And the earrings a dishta? (See I’m learning ..) I love the necklaces. Won’t you post a modeling shot? Please? 
p.s. I got both of those cuffs


----------



## Compass Rose

I am loving this eye candy this morning.  I seem to be all over the map with loving the beautiful vintage pieces, along with the contemporary ones.  So glad we have this thrread...


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> So awesome *OrbitOrange*! Is that coral ring a Quam? And the earrings a dishta? (See I’m learning ..) I love the necklaces. Won’t you post a modeling shot? Please?
> p.s. I got both of those cuffs



LOL, yes, you are learning a lot!  And so am I--it's a never ending education.  The ring is not a Quam, although I agree with you that it has a Quam/Ondelacy look.  I think it's actually by a Navajo artist, because the dealer I got it from said that it was originally part of a set, and the other pieces of the set were stamped T. Yazzie.  Yazzie is a common Navajo surname.  I've found one or two T. Yazzies that make jewelry, but none are a match for this style, so it's a mystery for now.  The earrings are in that flat Dishta inlay style but I don't they were actually made by a member of the Dishta family.  I actually don't know if I have ever seen anything attributed to the Dishtas that's an animal or figural inlay, as opposed to the small circles and petit point shapes they are known for.  



Compass Rose said:


> I am loving this eye candy this morning.  I seem to be all over the map with loving the beautiful vintage pieces, along with the contemporary ones.  So glad we have this thrread...



Me too!  Vintage, contemporary, I love it all!  I love the old pieces for their history and beauty and the new ones because it is a living art form, connected to history but also changing, and I like supporting living artists.


----------



## QueenofWrapDress

Oh wow, I usually just read the last few pages if I get to a thread late, but this one I will read from page 1!


----------



## essiedub

QueenofWrapDress said:


> Oh wow, I usually just read the last few pages if I get to a thread late, but this one I will read from page 1!


Ooh yes join us! And do post your pieces. We are here to enjoy and ogle!


----------



## QueenofWrapDress

essiedub said:


> Ooh yes join us! And do post your pieces. We are here to enjoy and ogle!



Sadly I don't own a single piece, but I minored in Ancient American Studies (which at my university is a curious mix of archaeology and anthropology of both South and North America from prehistoric times to today) so I am super interested.


----------



## Compass Rose

QueenofWrapDress said:


> Sadly I don't own a single piece, but I minored in Ancient American Studies (which at my university is a curious mix of archaeology and anthropology of both South and North America from prehistoric times to today) so I am super interested.


Welcome, welcome, welcome!    My passion stems from visiting my grandparents in Phoenix and when we were kids, they took us to all the most beautiful places that inspired me to this very day.  One of my greatest memories as a child was going mining somewhere in the desert for Apache Tears.  It was amazing.  I pray that this adventure doesn't happen any more because we came home with buckets of the most beautiful pieces.  This was back in the late 50's.  Now, I am hooked on Hillerman books, and that is about all I have to go on but I envy you, and hope you stick around!  We live in South Florida, but you would never know it, if you saw the interior decor of our house....lol  We love to collect art when we visit the southwest now.


----------



## essiedub

QueenofWrapDress said:


> Sadly I don't own a single piece, but I minored in Ancient American Studies (which at my university is a curious mix of archaeology and anthropology of both South and North America from prehistoric times to today) so I am super interested.


What an awesome minor! I would love archeology and anthropology. Well once you see that first piece that you love, you will be hooked. Believe it or not, it was on this very thread that I saw this snowflake cuff that made my eyes pop!   I’m still looking for a similar cuff.. Meanwhile, I have accumulated a few pieces  When you go through this thread, you’ll know which one it is..fantastic!


----------



## essiedub

Compass Rose said:


> Welcome, welcome, welcome!    My passion stems from visiting my grandparents in Phoenix and when we were kids, they took us to all the most beautiful places that inspired me to this very day.  One of my greatest memories as a child was going mining somewhere in the desert for Apache Tears.  It was amazing.  I pray that this adventure doesn't happen any more because we came home with buckets of the most beautiful pieces.  This was back in the late 50's.  Now, I am hooked on Hillerman books, and that is about all I have to go on but I envy you, and hope you stick around!  We live in South Florida, but you would never know it, if you saw the interior decor of our house....lol  We love to collect art when we visit the southwest now.



I love stories like this! What are Apache Tears? A type of turquoise? I’m off to research. Hillerman books eh? I’ve never read her novels..the whole story of the Trail of Tears was so sad that I just couldn’t bear to read it and that sort of of biased me against her other books. I’m not a history denier;  just can’t stomach cruelty to our fellow humans. It always astounds me (though it should not) what we can afflict on to another Anyway, I love the southwest..If I had to choose between beaches, mountains, forests, or deserts, I choose the desert. Plus I have such romanticized notions of the Wild West. New Mexico is my destination this year!


----------



## OrbitOrange

QueenofWrapDress said:


> Sadly I don't own a single piece.



Well that can be remedied!  Come join us.....we’re wonderful enablers!  Your minor sounds really interesting.


----------



## OrbitOrange

essiedub said:


> I love stories like this! What are Apache Tears? A type of turquoise? I’m off to research. Hillerman books eh? I’ve never read her novels..the whole story of the Trail of Tears was so sad that I just couldn’t bear to read it and that sort of of biased me against her other books. I’m not a history denier;  just can’t stomach cruelty to our fellow humans. It always astounds me (though it should not) what we can afflict on to another Anyway, I love the southwest..If I had to choose between beaches, mountains, forests, or deserts, I choose the desert. Plus I have such romanticized notions of the Wild West. New Mexico is my destination this year!



Ooh, when are you going to New Mexico and where will you be going?


----------



## Compass Rose

essiedub said:


> I love stories like this! What are Apache Tears? A type of turquoise? I’m off to research. Hillerman books eh? I’ve never read her novels..the whole story of the Trail of Tears was so sad that I just couldn’t bear to read it and that sort of of biased me against her other books. I’m not a history denier;  just can’t stomach cruelty to our fellow humans. It always astounds me (though it should not) what we can afflict on to another Anyway, I love the southwest..If I had to choose between beaches, mountains, forests, or deserts, I choose the desert. Plus I have such romanticized notions of the Wild West. New Mexico is my destination this year!


Obsidian.  Apache Tears is obsidian.  Arrow heads that are found throughout the southwest are made from obsidian.  Reminds me of smokey quartz.  Tony Hillerman, who passed away several years ago, wrote many mystery novels that dealt with life on reservations near Farmington, Shiprock, Tuba City, Taos and Santa Fe.  After he died, his daugher, Anne, picked up where he left off.....My Kindle is loaded with their books......fictional, yet full of historical facts.  You'd like it, I think.


----------



## QueenofWrapDress

essiedub said:


> What an awesome minor! I would love archeology and anthropology. Well once you see that first piece that you love, you will be hooked. Believe it or not, it was on this very thread that I saw this snowflake cuff that made my eyes pop!   I’m still looking for a similar cuff.. Meanwhile, I have accumulated a few pieces  When you go through this thread, you’ll know which one it is..fantastic!



Actually what I am really in love with - of course it must be a piece that is slightly difficult to incorporate into an outfit, especially outside of the US! - are concho belts completely made of silver (as in, not the single elements applied to a leather belt). Then again, I'm also fascinated by the Middle Eastern gold belts given for weddings haha.


----------



## QueenofWrapDress

OrbitOrange said:


> Well that can be remedied!  Come join us.....we’re wonderful enablers!  Your minor sounds really interesting.



Picked it because through curious circumstances (European bred and born haha) I do have a Quechua grandmother (native of Bolivia). She passed away shortly after my birth and my father whom I didn't grow up with died too, so that was how close I could get to part of my heritage I felt at the time.


----------



## cdtracing

Pulled out some NA pieces for a little love today.  Navajo turquoise & jet necklace, Platerno cross, Fred Harvey 3 row turquoise bracelet & turquoise ring.


----------



## OrbitOrange

cdtracing said:


> Pulled out some NA pieces for a little love today.  Navajo turquoise & jet necklace, Platerno cross, Fred Harvey 3 row turquoise bracelet & turquoise ring.
> View attachment 4663070
> View attachment 4663071



Lookin' great!  I think I've told you before how much I love that row bracelet.  It's spectacular!


----------



## cdtracing

OrbitOrange said:


> Lookin' great!  I think I've told you before how much I love that row bracelet.  It's spectacular!


Yes, thank you,Orbit.  This is my favorite bracelet.


----------



## essiedub

cdtracing said:


> Pulled out some NA pieces for a little love today.  Navajo turquoise & jet necklace, Platerno cross, Fred Harvey 3 row turquoise bracelet & turquoise ring.
> View attachment 4663070
> View attachment 4663071


really love that black against the turquoise! So striking! Is this santo domingo heshi? (I really have no idea, just read that somewhere)


----------



## cdtracing

essiedub said:


> really love that black against the turquoise! So striking! Is this santo domingo heshi? (I really have no idea, just read that somewhere)


Thank you, Essie.  No, it's an old Navajo piece from the 50's, I think.  I love how turquoise pops against black.  Sometimes I will even mix my NA jewelry with some of my pearls.  I love turquoise & pearls together.


----------



## essiedub

cdtracing said:


> Thank you, Essie.  No, it's an old Navajo piece from the 50's, I think.  I love how turquoise pops against black.  Sometimes I will even mix my NA jewelry with some of my pearls.  I love turquoise & pearls together.


Thank you for that. I will have to look at combing pearls with turquoise!


----------



## QueenofWrapDress

Are the gold pieces I see a nod to modern tastes or are they actually traditional?


----------



## essiedub

Julide said:


> I am adding one more of my NAJ pieces. I have had this for 15 years, Eeek!! I'm getting old! The first picture is the original necklace and the other two are different "chains" that I use for the pendant.
> 
> 
> I think that like all jewelry you can find different styles and materials in NAJ, it depends on what you are interested in.


Love this with the pearls! What a great idea. *Cdtracing* was just mentioning this pearl/turquoise combination!


----------



## cdtracing

In a turquoise mood today.  The choker is one I wore a lot in the 60's & 70's but it's a little too tight now.  I'm just not as skinny as I was back then.  The heshi & turquoise multi strand is from the 60's & the single turquoise & heshi necklace is from the 40's & is Morenci turquoise.  Wore my Kingman turquoise ring with Zuni Petit Point bracelet from late 50's.


----------



## Cool Breeze

cdtracing said:


> In a turquoise mood today.  The choker is one I wore a lot in the 60's & 70's but it's a little too tight now.  I'm just not as skinny as I was back then.  The heshi & turquoise multi strand is from the 60's & the single turquoise & heshi necklace is from the 40's & is Morenci turquoise.  Wore my Kingman turquoise ring with Zuni Petit Point bracelet from late 50's.
> View attachment 4671569
> View attachment 4671570


You look great and the jewelry isn’t bad either!  You still got it!


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## cdtracing

Cool Breeze said:


> You look great and the jewelry isn’t bad either!  You still got it!


Thanks, CB!  I would like to find or have an extender made for the choker.  It's a great piece but a little uncomfortable since it's so tight now.  Back in the day, if fit right at the base of my neck.  It's great to wear all year round since it's not as heavy as a full squash blossom necklace.


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## Compass Rose

Oh, my!  Absolutely gorgeous statement pieces....all of it!  I am in love.....cdtracing, you rock it all....  I actually audibly gasped....lol.....If that choker is feeling a bit too tight, I would certainly look into having someone fix that for you, as it is too beautiful just to be silent.


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## cdtracing

Compass Rose said:


> Oh, my!  Absolutely gorgeous statement pieces....all of it!  I am in love.....cdtracing, you rock it all....  I actually audibly gasped....lol.....If that choker is feeling a bit too tight, I would certainly look into having someone fix that for you, as it is too beautiful just to be silent.


Thanks, CR!!  Yes, it's been put away for too long. I would like to find an extender made with Navajo pearls.  I'm already on the hunt.  LOL


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## limom

Last time, I was out west, (NM) I noticed 14k Native American jewelry which I am interested in getting now.
Is this legitimate artisanal jewelry or just a take on the style?
Also, any recommendation for a good shop in Nevada?


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## Compass Rose

limon.....I am interested, too.....I always thought other than silver,  that turquoise looked the best in 14k rose gold.  Which is probably undertsandable because turquoise has copper in it, as well as rose gold.  There is a jeweler in Santa Fe... Santa Fe Goldworks .. who creates the most amazing contemporary native american themed jewelry, and I am holding out for something that will probably be my bucket list last piece of jewelry I will ever purchase before I die....lol.  Bet you girls have seen his work in your travels.....


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## cdtracing

limom said:


> Last time, I was out west, (NM) I noticed 14k Native American jewelry which I am interested in getting now.
> Is this legitimate artisanal jewelry or just a take on the style?
> Also, any recommendation for a good shop in Nevada?


While I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, I think the gold NA jewelry is more modern.  I have never seen any gold pieces from the early eras.  I could be wrong, tho.


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## limom

From what I see on websites, the trend looks like it started in the 1980’s.
I am flexible and would buy vintage or new or would even commission a piece.
As far as bucket list, I would be 100 and still be buying jewelry.
PS: while I always loved NA jewelry, this thread was really an inspiration.
So many great pieces and so much informations. Thanks ladies.


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## OrbitOrange

limom said:


> From what I see on websites, the trend looks like it started in the 1980’s.
> I am flexible and would buy vintage or new or would even commission a piece.
> As far as bucket list, I would be 100 and still be buying jewelry.
> PS: while I always loved NA jewelry, this thread was really an inspiration.
> So many great pieces and so much informations. Thanks ladies.



I'm not sure when gold was _first _used by NA artists, but it did become more common in the 80's and I think was probably rarely used before then.  In Paula Baxter's book "Southwestern Indian Bracelets" she states that gold was incorporated "more and more" in the 1980's and that this correlated with the general indulgence of the decade.  Also, the 1970's was really the beginning of when NA artisans began to be perceived as true artists as opposed to craftsman, and I think the use of higher end materials followed naturally out of that.  Gold jewelry is definitely legitimate artisanal jewelry and I've noticed that very often higher quality stones seem to be set in gold.


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## OrbitOrange

cdtracing said:


> Thanks, CR!!  Yes, it's been put away for too long. I would like to find an extender made with Navajo pearls.  I'm already on the hunt.  LOL



I'm not sure if something like this would be what you're looking for....
https://www.horsekeeping.com/jewelry/beads/extenders.htm


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## cdtracing

OrbitOrange said:


> I'm not sure if something like this would be what you're looking for....
> https://www.horsekeeping.com/jewelry/beads/extenders.htm


Thanks for the link, OrbitO.  I found a 4" 6mm bear extension that works well but I may get one with larger beads for the full squash blossom.  I've bookmarked the link so I can look closer.  Thank you so much!!


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## shrpthorn

limom said:


> Last time, I was out west, (NM) I noticed 14k Native American jewelry which I am interested in getting now.
> Is this legitimate artisanal jewelry or just a take on the style?
> Also, any recommendation for a good shop in Nevada?


If you are looking for the MOST amazing 14Kt SW turquoise jewellery look up pieces by Jesse Monongye. His pieces are exquisite but pricey - now if I win a lottery.......


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## limom

shrpthorn said:


> If you are looking for the MOST amazing 14Kt SW turquoise jewellery look up pieces by Jesse Monongye. His pieces are exquisite but pricey -* now if I win a lottery...*....


I might start playing too.
Wow!
I love the bears.
Really pretty pieces.


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## SWlife

Compass Rose said:


> limon.....I am interested, too.....I always thought other than silver,  that turquoise looked the best in 14k rose gold.  Which is probably undertsandable because turquoise has copper in it, as well as rose gold.  There is a jeweler in Santa Fe... Santa Fe Goldworks .. who creates the most amazing contemporary native american themed jewelry, and I am holding out for something that will probably be my bucket list last piece of jewelry I will ever purchase before I die....lol.  Bet you girls have seen his work in your travels.....



oh I tried on that gold/turquoise/diamonds and other gemstones ring Santa Fe Goldworks used in their print ads for several years. It retailed for $43,000 if I remember correctly. Absolutely gorgeous! After I was finished drooling all over their counter, I handed it back and thanked them for letting me try it. They were so kind.


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## Compass Rose

This is my holy grail.......after this.....I am done...


gacats said:


> oh I tried on that gold/turquoise/diamonds and other gemstones ring Santa Fe Goldworks used in their print ads for several years. It retailed for $43,000 if I remember correctly. Absolutely gorgeous! After I was finished drooling all over their counter, I handed it back and thanked them for letting me try it. They were so kind.


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## limom

The inlays pieces are absolutely gorgeous...
I am obsessed with bears, wolves and now lizards so shooting for one of the animal pieces....
Time to save for that special birthday.....


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## cdtracing

The sun was out today & it was so warm.  I posted this pic in the Pearl Lover's thread & posting it here as well.  Pearls & NA today!


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## Canturi lover

cdtracing said:


> The sun was out today & it was so warm.  I posted this pic in the Pearl Lover's thread & posting it here as well.  Pearls & NA today!
> View attachment 4694339


You look fabulous


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## Compass Rose

Wowser! your turquoise collection is amazing! You look fabulous, and I am going back and forth just to look at your picture, cdtracing....  Since we are on day 5 of our 15 day lockdown, maybe I will celebrate by wearing one of my pretty pendants with my indoor pajamas for fun!


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## essiedub

cdtracing said:


> The sun was out today & it was so warm.  I posted this pic in the Pearl Lover's thread & posting it here as well.  Pearls & NA today!
> View attachment 4694339


it’s as if summer has arrived! So beautiful


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## susieserb

clairejune said:


> I love Native American jewelry! Especially vintage Zuni needle and petite point. Here are some of my pieces....
> 
> 2 Zuni vintage cuffs with a huge vintage Zuni ring..


HOLY. COW!!!!!


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## susieserb

clairejune said:


> Here is the Alice Quam coral ring.
> I also added 2 more pics of the cuffs.
> These cuffs and the thunderbird really feel spiritually wonderful to wear somehow. The necklace gives me so much courage, and the cuffs are mentally clarifying , like meditative mandalas. They look great with elegant dressy clothes as well as with jeans. The Turquoise  ring is modern, as I bought it at the Zuni show at the annual Native American art show 2 years ago in Santa Fe.


THUD!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## susieserb

essiedub said:


> O.m.g. * CyanideRose*! You have a great eye!! This one’s for you!
> Sensational... and now I don’t think it’s too big


go big or go home!!!! LOVE IT!!!!


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## susieserb

essiedub said:


> Wut? As the saying goes, “More is more!” Doesn’t this look terrific?! I aspire to this
> View attachment 4388520


ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## susieserb

Cyanide Rose said:


> This is a bit off topic, but I notice some Native American jewelry has swastikas. I’m putting some jewelry in my Etsy store and I don’t want to offend anyone. Do you think this is a variation of a swastika?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4401148


has a free mason feel to me..


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## susieserb

Compass Rose said:


> This is what I mentioned a few posts back.  Not native...but OMG....I want!  Courtesy of Cowboys & Indians magazine...Feb/March 2019 issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4410240


slobber


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## susieserb

I'm sitting at home and have totally neglected this thread..Here's some "transitions"


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## susieserb

cont.


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## susieserb




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## susieserb




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## susieserb




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## susieserb




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## susieserb

Not Native American Indian but in honor of the vibe!!


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## susieserb

I'm rejuvenated to pull out my Indian Jewelry and to just "enjoy" it.


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## susieserb

lanit said:


> @essiedub asked me to post my two heritage pieces handed down to me from my father when he passed away. My post is on Scarf of the Day thread here.
> 
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...wearing-today.1002401/page-1058#post-33458900
> 
> 
> Both pieces were gifts from NA friends sometime in the 1960's that were treasured by my father. I believe they are Navajo..
> 
> View attachment 4599811
> 
> View attachment 4599812
> 
> View attachment 4599810


Wait did I buy this piece???? Indeed I did!! I ALWAYS wanted a unique all silver SB necklace and this one fit the bill!!! TY!!!!


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## Compass Rose

Hi, susieserb.....love, love love your pictures!  All of it....stunning!  I wish I could feel comfortable enough to be so bold with my style, but you rock it for sure.  Both you and cdtracing.....  Right now, I dress up with a pendant or two to feel like I am going somewhere special when I go from Livingroomlandia to Puerto Backyardia these days.  Thank you so much for sharing...


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## lanit

susieserb said:


> Wait did I buy this piece???? Indeed I did!! I ALWAYS wanted a unique all silver SB necklace and this one fit the bill!!! TY!!!!


Sorry you are mistaken; these pieces were never for sale.But your necklace does resemble mine!


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## susieserb

lanit said:


> Sorry you are mistaken; these pieces were never for sale.But your necklace does resemble mine!


Ok good to know...those double blossoms are hard to come by that's what took me back.


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## cdtracing

Navajo pillow bead necklace with a pearl strand.


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## Winter4

cdtracing said:


> Navajo pillow bead necklace with a pearl strand.
> View attachment 4731320


Your pearls are gorgeous!


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## Cool Breeze

cdtracing said:


> Navajo pillow bead necklace with a pearl strand.
> View attachment 4731320


Very cool combo!  Your pearls are stunning!


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## Compass Rose

Love this!


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## sdkitty

anyone shopped for NA jewelry in Montana?  I happened to be listening to an interview with a NA man (not on the subject of jewelry) who said he made jewelry in Boseman.  Got me thinking - could this be a (partial) excuse to travel to Montana?


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## Julide

I was reading the news on my phone and came across an article on Val Kilmar’s newest movie. Needless to say his jewelry was all I was looking at. I found a few more pictures of him wearing NA jewelry. Such fab style! Really love his outfits


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## sdkitty

Julide said:


> I was reading the news on my phone and came across an article on Val Kilmar’s newest movie. Needless to say his jewelry was all I was looking at. I found a few more pictures of him wearing NA jewelry. Such fab style! Really love his outfits
> 
> View attachment 5129319
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129320
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129321
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129322
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129323
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129324
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129326
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129329
> View attachment 5129319
> View attachment 5129320
> View attachment 5129321
> View attachment 5129322
> View attachment 5129323
> View attachment 5129326
> View attachment 5129323
> View attachment 5129326
> View attachment 5129329


he used to be so hot....tragic the way he has aged
Is that his daughter?


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## Julide

sdkitty said:


> he used to be so hot....tragic the way he has aged
> Is that his daughter?



I was reading about him and he is or was battling cancer. Any illness can take it out of you. I am not certain if that is his daughter. I was memorized by his style and jewelry!


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## BigTexy

sdkitty said:


> anyone shopped for NA jewelry in Montana?  I happened to be listening to an interview with a NA man (not on the subject of jewelry) who said he made jewelry in Boseman.  Got me thinking - could this be a (partial) excuse to travel to Montana?


Did you ever figure out who this was? Would love to look him up next time I go visit  I was just there and went to Silver Annie's and got a few things. She got most of her stuff from New Mexico when they do the trade shows, but she didn't mention anyone local. 
I also found this website interesting, showing some of the different types of turquoise found in the US: https://waddellgallery.com/pages/turquoise-materials


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## shrpthorn

BigTexy said:


> I also found this website interesting, showing some of the different types of turquoise found in the US: https://waddellgallery.com/pages/turquoise-materials


Thanks for posting. This provides the best description & photos I have come across for the different types of turquoise.


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## udalrike

Hello, everyone. I have a question and hope that someone will be able to answer it. I bought this bangle used and I love the stones so much. Not sure if it is real silver but I guess the stones are Variscite/Damale?
I would be happy if someone new more... Thank you in advance!!!


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## udalrike

It has 7 stones in a row.


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## sdkitty

udalrike said:


> It has 7 stones in a row.


very pretty ....I like a row bracelet....looks like heavily matrixed turquoise to me but I'm no expert


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## udalrike

Thank you, sdkitty!


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## Compass Rose

I'm going to go with a beautiful Royston turquoise.  Someone else may know better, though....but whatever you do, please keep the beautiful patina on that bracelet and don't attempt to polish it.  It's gorgeous!


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## udalrike

Thank you for your comment, Compass rose! The stones are so beautiful and definitely spiderweb matrix.


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## jellyv

udalrike said:


> Hello, everyone. I have a question and hope that someone will be able to answer it. I bought this bangle used and I love the stones so much. Not sure if it is real silver but I guess the stones are *Variscite/Damale?*


Variscite and Damale aren't synonyms, or terms that are interchangeable. Damale is a _Nevada mine_ that produced both turquoise in very limited quantities and, more typically,  variscite and faustite. If this is Damale, there's a far greater chance that it's variscite just because of the output at Damale--but recognize that Damale variscite is also (or can be) gem grade quality. You'd need lab analysis to know what these stones are.

Any chance you could add a clear pic of the hallmark?


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## Compass Rose

The hallmark should tell you something, but way back then hallmarks weren't used so much.


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## udalrike

JellyV, thanks for your answer. There is no hallmark, it is just a texture in the metal.


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## sdkitty

udalrike said:


> JellyV, thanks for your answer. There is no hallmark, it is just a texture in the metal.


I have a silver and turquoise bracelet that I showed to a very experienced and respected seller. It has a name in it but he didn't recognize it.  Nevertheless he was impresssed with the piece and thought it was old.  If you're really curious and you are in an area where you can show it to an experienced dealer maybe they can give you an opinion.  In any case, enjoy your beautiful bracelet.


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## udalrike

Sdkitty, I am curious but I live in Germany. So no one to ask here. I send a message with the question to a couple I saw a video on youtube. They own mines with both,turquoise and variscite. And they think that it is variscite.
Thank you! I definetely enjoy the bracelet!!


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## udalrike

Can you please show yours, sdkitty?


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## sdkitty

udalrike said:


> Can you please show yours, sdkitty?


post #821 on this thread


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## udalrike

Foúnd it! What a gorgeous bangle! I especially love that the stones are different. You must be glad to have it!!!


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## jelliedfeels

susieserb said:


> Let's look at real Native Americans sporting their OLD PAWN treasures.


These outfits are absolutely fantastic, I love how understated the heishi beads are


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## SWlife

My crochet bunny-purchased in Greece because she’s so cute- wears a squash blossom necklace I got in Albuquerque. We moved here in August 2020, so now I have access to all the NA art and jewelry my little heart desires.


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## sdkitty

SWlife said:


> My crochet bunny-purchased in Greece because she’s so cute- wears a squash blossom necklace I got in Albuquerque. We moved here in August 2020, so now I have access to all the NA art and jewelry my little heart desires.


NM is great for NA jewelry
At the height of my interest I dragged DH to Gallup......not the prettiest town and didn't find anything but they do have jewelry stores


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## millerc

Beautiful squash blossom necklace. NM is a treasure trove of NA jewelry and art. Please post you finds! The other thing I love most about NM is the food - green chili everything!


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## SWlife

millerc said:


> Beautiful squash blossom necklace. NM is a treasure trove of NA jewelry and art. Please post you finds! The other thing I love most about NM is the food - green chili everything!


I eat green Chile on most everything!


----------



## Cool Breeze

SWlife said:


> I eat green Chile on most everything!


Pork green chile is my go to comfort food!


----------



## QueenofWrapDress

Quannah Chasing Horse attending the Met Gala.


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## jelliedfeels

Bear claw turquoise and silver clip-ons from London shop Jessie Western. Now I’ve discovered her shop I may have trouble stopping.


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## jelliedfeels

QueenofWrapDress said:


> Quannah Chasing Horse attending the Met Gala.
> 
> View attachment 5394760


I love the jewels on this and the hair but I don’t get the gown at all.


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## jelliedfeels

Does anyone know anything about turquoise navajo petit point jewellery signed with the name Paloma?


----------



## oldbag

jelliedfeels said:


> Does anyone know anything about turquoise navajo petit point jewellery signed with the name Paloma?


All I can find is her name is Janice Paloma and she is Zuni. She has made jewelry since the 1950s. There is a Janice Paloma in NM and her age is listed as 90 which would be about right if she has been making jewelry that long. There are photos of some of her artwork on line.


----------



## jelliedfeels

oldbag said:


> All I can find is her name is Janice Paloma and she is Zuni. She has made jewelry since the 1950s. There is a Janice Paloma in NM and her age is listed as 90 which would be about right if she has been making jewelry that long. There are photos of some of her artwork on line.


Thank you so much. Looking at her other designs it  seems like she is the designer of the piece I’m looking at. Hopefully I will have a piece of hers to post soon.


----------



## jelliedfeels

Here’s the Janice Paloma cuff.


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## jelliedfeels




----------



## GoStanford

That is an absolutely beautiful cuff - enjoy it!  At first I thought it was two stacked cuffs but it looks like one piece.  What a great design!


----------



## jellyv

jelliedfeels said:


> turquoise navajo petit point jewellery signed with the name Paloma?


Congrats on your lovely bracelet. Just FYI this is known as needlepoint turquoise, not petitpoint.


----------



## jelliedfeels

jellyv said:


> Congrats on your lovely bracelet. Just FYI this is known as needlepoint turquoise, not petitpoint.


Thank you. Petit point is when it’s circular isn’t it?
So the flower shaped cuffs actually contain both needle and Petit point?




GoStanford said:


> That is an absolutely beautiful cuff - enjoy it!  At first I thought it was two stacked cuffs but it looks like one piece.  What a great design!


Thank you. Yes I love it and it’s a double row. It’s very comfortable to wear.
There’s some other beautiful cuffs out there.


----------



## jellyv

jelliedfeels said:


> Thank you. Petit point is when it’s circular isn’t it?



^In that bracelet the _blue _turquoise is the petitpoint, and the ovals are just oval cabs.  Petitpoint is a stone shape that tapers from rounded at the top to a pointed end, essentially the teardrop or pear shape. (Some makers do a more rounded pointy end, but you definitely still see this shaping.)

Needlepoint turquoise, in contrast, is a fine (narrow) cut that's consistent top to bottom, though the ends are ever so slightly beveled.

The queen of needlepoint is Edith Tsabetsaye (Zuni), if you want to see it at its highest form.http://marthastruever.com/edith-tsabetsaye-needlepoint-ring.html


----------



## jelliedfeels

jellyv said:


> ^In that bracelet the _blue _turquoise is the petitpoint, and the ovals are just oval cabs.  Petitpoint is a stone shape that tapers from rounded at the top to a pointed end, essentially the teardrop or pear shape. (Some makers do a more rounded pointy end, but you definitely still see this shaping.)
> 
> Needlepoint turquoise, in contrast, is a fine (narrow) cut that's consistent top to bottom, though the ends are ever so slightly beveled.
> 
> The queen of needlepoint is Edith Tsabetsaye (Zuni), if you want to see it at its highest form.http://marthastruever.com/edith-tsabetsaye-needlepoint-ring.html


Thank you that’s a great reply. For some reason I didn’t get a notification for this thread even though I watch it.

I was looking at Effie Calavaza (Zuni) the last couple of days- I do love the way she works snakes into her designs 




__





						Thezuniconnection.com
					






					www.thezuniconnection.com


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