# Important Information About Cat Food



## *NYC Princess*

My bf and I recently adopted a cat from a local rescue organization, and we found out a lot about the proper way to feed a cat, and many common misconceptions.  The rescue organization specializes in cats, and got the information from books and vets.  Feeding cats dry food or cheaper canned foodscause our cats to not be as healthy and can lead to serious health problems down the line.  It's not just about what is easier to feed our cats, or what they prefer to eat.

I wanted to highlight bullets of what I felt to be the important information for you all here so that our loved babies get the best care and live long and healthy!  The main thing is that a high quality *CANNED FOOD IS BEST*.
*Cats need animal based proteint.*  Cats are carnivores and very different from dogs in their nutritional needs.  Cats need animal-based protein, and the protein in dry food is heavily plant-based, and not equal to the quality in the protein in canned foods, which are meat-based.
*We are feeding cats too many carbs.  *In their natural settings, cats would not consume the high level of carbs (grains) that are in dry foods.  In the wild, a cat's diet is 3-6% carbs.  The average dry food contains 35-50% carbs; cheaper brands may have even more.
*Look for a muscle meat in the first ingredient.*  When reading the ingredient label of a cat food, it should have a muscle meat as the first ingredient, not a organ meat.  For example, it should read "chicken" not "chicken meal", "chicken by-products," "chicken broth," or "liver".
*Dry food linked to serious health problems.*  Dry cat food has been linked to:
Diabetes (from high level of carbs in dry food)
Kidney failure (cats are often chronically dehydrated on a dry food diet)
Bladder inflammation/kidney stones (cats on dry food have more highly concentrated urine)
Inflammatory bowel disease (many anecedotal reports of cats with IBS improving dramatically when all dry food removed from their diet)
Obesity (again carbs)
Fatty liver disease
Dental disease (long standing claims that cats have less dental disease when fed dry food are grossly overrated, inaccurate and not supported by recent studies.  Dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth.  Cats' teeth are meant to grind  meat, and so dry food ends up between their teeth and ferments into sugar, causing dental problems.  Also, many cats swallow the majority of their food whole, eliminating any benefit from chewing.

*Stick to twice-daily feedings* (does not apply to kittens).  Feed 3 oz of canned food twice a day, and try to stick to the same times.  Cats may beg to be fed more often, but more than that can lead to obesity.  Also leaving dry food between meals have led to ancedotes about dandruff on the cats' coats.
*FINALLY...recommended cat foods:*
Wet food
Nature's Recipe Optimum
California Natural
Pet Guard Premium
Natural Choice/Max Cat
Wysong
Iams
Innova
Wellness
Felidae
Precise
Nature's Variety
Wysong's Au Jus Canned Meats
Wysong's Archetype
Avoderm Select Cuts
Merrick

Wet food for kittens
Max Kitten
Triumph Turkey for Kittens
Iams Kitten
Precise

Wet Foods Not Recommended (unfortunately these are the most common brands)
Purina
9-Lives
Fancy Feast
Friskies
Alpo
Whiskas
Kalkan
Sheba
Amore

Dry Foods Not Recommended
Hills' Science Diet
Iams Original Flavor
Eukanuba Chicken & Rice
Bil Jac
Waltham Adult
Proplan Beef & Rice

Not meaning to be preachy here by any means, but I hope that this information will help all of our kitties to be happy and healthy for many years to come!


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## tiramisu

^^I agree that canned food is best for cats, too. But I do want to add that there are decent 'economical' Fancy Feast ones that you can feed, and not good Innova ones to feed your kitties depending on your cat i.e. We should not always only decide based on the brand sometimes. Look at the label and look at the ingredients, percentage of dry matter base for each protein, carbohydrates, etc. And some, you just learn from the manufacture's breakdown of nutritional labels. For example, it is well known that Innova EVO has high phosphorus level in their canned food and that is not recommended for cats that have kidney disease. Most Light formula even in canned foods will have more carbs (including vegetables that cats may not need...) even in the canned food. There is a Fancy Feast's series (I think the Gourmet kind? are decent to feed. They are the ones that do not have gluten and mostly meat products with carbohydrates less than 10%. For those who cannot always afford high-end brands check out this -> http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm
This is a good website to check out if you want to find out more about feline nutrition and good links... -> http://www.catinfo.org/commercialcannedfoods.htm
And if you have time, take a look at this book for some good info, too -> http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cat-Simple-Secrets-Stronger/dp/0312358016
They are more of a raw food proponent, but IMO, you could still feed your cat better without going all raw food. 
For those who decide to switch to all canned and currently eating dry, just make sure to watch you cat carefully during the transition. Last thing you want to do is to starve your kitty. Sometimes eating something is more important than not eating 'high quality food' for cats. One of my kitty was very much of a carb addict and took a long time to switch over. So be prepared to be patient, too!


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## *NYC Princess*

I don't know much about Fancy Feast, but the director of the rescue organization told me that it is an average quality food (so it's ok to feed it) but for the price, that there were better alternatives.  She also said it was highly addictive and cats love it, so it's hard to wean cats off it.  But tiramisu, you're absolutely right that you should read the label, which is why I tried to write down some of the pointers I learned.


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## wordbox

^ Yeah, a lot of "name brand" foods aren't actually very good. If you look at the ingredients, you're getting a lot of by-products, dyes, yeasts, etc. instead of good quality, natural ingredients.

But I agree, you need to consider more things than just the brand, and not just for cats. I don't have cats (rather, two dogs), and while I feed them the same brand (Solid Gold), they are on different blends because they have different dietary needs.


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## bnjj

That is very interesting as is this article on the same topic.  I was unaware of any of this and now need to really thing about switching my cats to canned food.  Problem is, I am gone for 15 hours a day several times a week so would not be home at the end of a normal work day to give them dinner.

*http://tinyurl.com/2hrc8a*


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## *NYC Princess*

bnjj said:


> That is very interesting as is this article on the same topic.  I was unaware of any of this and now need to really thing about switching my cats to canned food.  Problem is, I am gone for 15 hours a day several times a week so would not be home at the end of a normal work day to give them dinner.
> 
> *http://tinyurl.com/2hrc8a*




I know what you mean.  I work in finance, and work 12 hr day minimums.  Luckily my bf can feed them if I come home late.  Maybe feed them wet food in the morning, and leave out one of the high quality and grain-free dry cat foods for the evening?  Or leave a little of the dry cat food before you can feed them properly when you come back?


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## bnjj

I actually just went and took their dry food away and gave them each a half a small can of canned food that I had on hand from the Vet.

I think what I will do is feed them canned in the morning and leave a small amount of dry out for them to snack on during the day and then will feed them canned again when I get home.  I think this should work.

Thanks for posting this.


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## tiramisu

**NYC Princess**, definitely a good posting! For the longest time, cats were treated like small dogs, and they are sure NOT!!! I have found the list of brands differ among different 'groups' of people and time, too. For example, Iams was a decent brand, but since the pet food scare, lots of us are staying away from it. And there are those who are cautious with smaller brand names because it has not been out on the market for long and no one has done any trials to make sure that they are safe or etc for the cats... The brands I personaly found that seem to be good are Wellness and Innova. So I always take it with grain of salt and where it came from in regards to the list. It is a good starting point. I do agree that cats are obligatory carnivores and they need a high protein diet and low carbs! 
In my experience, I like Wellness and Innova. Among the major brands (those that have research capability, etc), I like Royal Canin. But I feed my cats half raw (Feline's Pride) and FF (just the flavors that are lower in phosphorus and high protein/low carb) because I have 5 cats! I am not confident in making raw from scratch. I have a cat in renal failure, so look at the phosphorus content carefully, so Innova EVO, is out... 
As for feeding time, I feed my cats canned food in the AM before work, and canned food when I get back. No dry food in our house unless we travel. I can see that dry food really porks them out because just in a week I find my cats 'rounder'... 
Like OP says, to many many more happy days with kitties~~~


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## vanessa_karie

Thank you for the information.  I am currently feeding my cat with Hill's Science Plan dry food.. hrm this is making me really worried.  Can you please be kind enough to post the original article you read from on here or let me know where this article comes from, (as in whether if it is published in any veterinary journals, etc etc).  Thanks! As I only want the best for my baby girl


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## tiramisu

^^Educating ourselves and making the decision what is best for our kitties is a great thing! I don't know where and who *NYCPrincess *got her great info from, but here are the sources that helped me make my decision regarding what I feed my cats. Lots of vets still don't get that cats do not need carb in their diet, so her vet is definitely doing his/her studies regarding feline nutrition. If you go to a feline exclusive veterinary hospital, they are catching onto moving all cat diet to all canned food. But lots of people even in my profession (veterinary medicine) feed their cats kibbles... Anyway:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/diet.htm (http://www.felinediabetes.com/index.html Very good layperson's website that I think started to 'revolutionize' about diet and cats. It is mainly for those who have cats with diabetes, but has tons of essential information!)
http://www.catinfo.org/index.htm (Webiste maintained by a veterinarian)
http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf (By a Board certified veterinary internal medicine vet. Academic published journal article that came out saying cats need high protein diet and not much carb)
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cat-Simple-Secrets-Stronger/dp/0312358016/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1121778-6836659?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179210413&sr=8-1 (Book by a veterinarian written solely for cat mommies and daddies. Very informative information with all feline disease and nutrition. She practices in OC, CA)

The two websites listed above does have Discussion Boards that you can log on and ask specific questions. Hill's is not bad, but the only high protein low carb canned food is the kitten series. Maybe try something different when you go buy cat food next time. You probably have to go to a pet supply store other than Petsmart and Petco to find the 'higher quality' line brands like Innova or Wellness, etc. And like I mentioned in my previous post, I won't diss Fancy Feast all together... Purina was the very few major pet food company that did not have to do any cat food recall, so I felt that they were doing something right...
Thanks again to *NYCPrincess *for the posting because I love discussing feline nutrition, too!!!
Happy Kitty Feeding everyone~~~


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## cascratchfever

I agree that canned food is definitely best and you should try to get the canned food without a lot of "gravy" in it.  The problem with my cats is they won't touch the wet canned food!  None of them are the least bit interested in it.  I tried it for a week and after a couple of days, I had to supplement with dry food because they weren't eating.  I swtiched to a high quality dry food and hopefully that'll be okay for them (although not ideal).


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## twiggers

My cats LOVE wet food....but I use it as just a treat. Normally they just get dry food. Except for one of the cats they are all overweight  I am going to look into this more!


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## wordbox

And it's always best to discuss your pet's diet with your vet or an animal nutritionist to make sure that what you're feeding them is best for them.


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## tiramisu

*cascratchfever*, i know, it took me a good month for my carb-addicted boys to switch over! towards the end, i had 3 kibbles on top of the canned food and they will eat that. but without those few kibbles, they would turn away. i didn't get it, but slowly that 3 kibbles went to 2, 1, and 0! 
the whole argument of canned food is better is also about the moisture intake. cats do not drink like dogs nor humans and do not have strong thirst drive so they must intake moisture with their diet... some dry foods contain a lot of salt to 'encourage' more drinking water, but it kind of defeats the purpose for health wise, i think... higher quality dry kibble maybe better, but in order to make a kibble, they have to have some kind of carb to make the kibble 'stick' together, and hence keeping the carb % low is tricky. there are freezed dried kibbles that clain less carb and high protein, but since mine transitioned finally, i have not really looked into that.
before the food recall, i gave up switching from dry to wet so many times, but when that whole thing happened, i had to be patient myself at the same time making sure i didn't starve my babies...one of the websites i listed does have some advice about successfully switiching over to all canned food if you are serious abotu trying.
as for discussing with animal nutritionists, etc before making any change, yes, it is a good idea to talk to your veterinarian first! but remember there are those who are not up to date with feline nutrition.


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## cascratchfever

tiramisu said:


> *cascratchfever*, i know, it took me a good month for my carb-addicted boys to switch over! towards the end, i had 3 kibbles on top of the canned food and they will eat that. but without those few kibbles, they would turn away. i didn't get it, but slowly that 3 kibbles went to 2, 1, and 0!
> the whole argument of canned food is better is also about the moisture intake. cats do not drink like dogs nor humans and do not have strong thirst drive so they must intake moisture with their diet... some dry foods contain a lot of salt to 'encourage' more drinking water, but it kind of defeats the purpose for health wise, i think... higher quality dry kibble maybe better, but in order to make a kibble, they have to have some kind of carb to make the kibble 'stick' together, and hence keeping the carb % low is tricky. there are freezed dried kibbles that clain less carb and high protein, but since mine transitioned finally, i have not really looked into that.
> before the food recall, i gave up switching from dry to wet so many times, but when that whole thing happened, i had to be patient myself at the same time making sure i didn't starve my babies...one of the websites i listed does have some advice about successfully switiching over to all canned food if you are serious abotu trying.
> as for discussing with animal nutritionists, etc before making any change, yes, it is a good idea to talk to your veterinarian first! but remember there are those who are not up to date with feline nutrition.


 
Thanks for the info!  Do you know about how many ounces a day an adult cat (fairly innactive house cat)?  I'm trying to figure up the cost.


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## CleoCouture

I want to add to this list of good pet food:  Blue Buffalo brand cat food!  They have regular dry food and in the dry food are little pellet like things in it that are uncooked vitamins and antioxidants (uncooked as to keep them fully potent).  They have canned food, organic food and even what they call a wilderness food which is low carb and designed after what wild cats (lynx) eat.  They use human grade ingredients with meat (chicken or salmon) as their first ingredient and I beleive chicken or salmon meal as the the second.  They also use allot of fruits and veggies including cranberries which are excellent for cats because they are prone to kidney infections.  Check out the website:

bluebuff.com

They dont use any animal by products, fillers like corn, wheat, or corn gluten, and they dont add anything artificial like colors or preservatives!

They also have treats and dog foods!

Also...just my own thoughts...but as often as I can, I encourage people to boycott Iams/eukanuba as they dont treat animals very nicely(animal testing, poor conditions etc)...you can read about it on Petas website, just type in Iams in the search box.  I know that Peta can be somewhat extreme, but this is one of those things that everyone should know about.  It makes me sick that these people (iams/eukanuba) are making money off of animals, yet they cant treat them properly!


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## tiramisu

cascratchfever said:


> Thanks for the info!  Do you know about how many ounces a day an adult cat (fairly innactive house cat)?  I'm trying to figure up the cost.



http://www.catinfo.org/
In the above link, if you scrol down there is a topic Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food. I took her advice and feed about 6 oz of canned food per cat per day. I feed them twice daily, so 3 oz canned food per cat per day. I feed them raw food (Feline's Pride) mixed with FF. The amount of FF I put in ends up perfectly that I don't have any leftovers. And my cats seem to be satisfied with that amount, at the same time, I did see them start to slim up a bit soon after they were on canned only diet. Here are the FF flavors that 'I' use for my cats, so just FYI. Tender Beef & Liver (Magenta), Tender Beef & Chicken Feast (Red), Tender Beef Feast (Brown), Tender Liver & Chicken (Orange), and Turkey & Giblets Feast (Olive Green). These are the flavors that I learned contains no wheat gluten and less than 10% carb (around 2~4%). Each can costs around 74 cents with the Petsmart Petsperk Card.
Again, I have 5 cats... I have tried Wellness, Nature's Variety, etc., etc., but FF with Feline's Pride seem to work for them and us. And being in the profession also, I have discussed with my cat doctor about their diets. Some vets are just 'trained' to recommend Hills and other major brand diets, so ask around. 
Good luck!


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## *NYC Princess*

vanessa_karie said:


> Thank you for the information.  I am currently feeding my cat with Hill's Science Plan dry food.. hrm this is making me really worried.  Can you please be kind enough to post the original article you read from on here or let me know where this article comes from, (as in whether if it is published in any veterinary journals, etc etc).  Thanks! As I only want the best for my baby girl



Hi Vanessa,

I typed out highlights from materials that the rescue organization gave me from the adoption seminar (it was surprisingly very detailed, and two hours long!).  I found online where they got the info from, a vet called Lisa A Pierson (see link below).  Hope it helps!

http://www.catinfo.org


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## *NYC Princess*

Oops responded before seeing tiramisu already had it!


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## bnjj

Deleted.  I answered my own question.


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## LV-PRADAfanatic

OMG.. i;ve been giving my cat dry foood...


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## tiramisu

*NYC Princess* said:


> Oops responded before seeing tiramisu already had it!



I didn't mean to hijack your post, *NYC Princess*!!! I just get bit excited when I see someone who thinks the same in regards to cat nutrition! That is so cool that we are looking at the same info! By the way, do you have a pic of your new kitty???


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## Blue824

LV-PRADAfanatic said:


> OMG.. i;ve been giving my cat dry foood...


 
Its not the most horrible thing in the world. Vets have flip flopped for what is the proper diet for cats, I think there just is not as much attention paid to cat diets as there are to dog diets, and now we are learning and aware of so much more. When I first got my cats, they told me NOT to feed them wet food and to only use it as a treat. Oh well! Currently, my cats have more kibble in their diet than wet food, mostly because they are SUPER picky about the wet food, and they will only eat sea food flavors, and my vet said it wasn't good to feed them sea food constantly. As often as I try to have them eat other meats, it just won't work, it sits there... and that is gross! 

Another way to increase their liquid intake is through a water fountain. I noticed a huge jump in the amount they drank once we put a water fountain out for them. 

Overall, I think it is more important to be aware of the nutritional options and provide your cat(s) with the most well rounded, high quality diet you can provide and that they will eat!


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## bnjj

So ever since this thread was started a couple days ago, I have primarily been feeding my cats canned food, which they readily eat - though not all of it in one sitting - and I leave a small amount of kibble out for them to snack on as well.

The only thing I don't like about this is that, since they don't eat all the wet food immediately, the main floor now smells like canned cat food and I really dislike that.


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## vanessa_karie

Thanks NYCPrincess and Tiramisu for the links.  The thought of feeding my cat dry food can lead to diseases like diabetes later on in life is scary! I will definitely look into it and probably change her diet asap! thanks again!


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## *NYC Princess*

bnjj said:


> So ever since this thread was started a couple days ago, I have primarily been feeding my cats canned food, which they readily eat - though not all of it in one sitting - and I leave a small amount of kibble out for them to snack on as well.
> 
> The only thing I don't like about this is that, since they don't eat all the wet food immediately, the main floor now smells like canned cat food and I really dislike that.



My cat has a habit of not eating his food all at once too.  He eats two bites and then whines for me to sit so he can lay down and be petted!  What are you feeding them?  I feed them Wellness and I don't notice a smell in my apartment.  It might be also bec you're not used to the smell of wet cat food yet, I used to find the smell somewhat strong the first few times I opened the can.


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## *NYC Princess*

tiramisu said:


> I didn't mean to hijack your post, *NYC Princess*!!! I just get bit excited when I see someone who thinks the same in regards to cat nutrition! That is so cool that we are looking at the same info! By the way, do you have a pic of your new kitty???



Here are a few pictures of our new cutie!  He was already four when we got him, but he's like a big baby!


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## tiramisu

^^He is such a cutie kitty!!! He looks like he is a teenager kitty! Orange tabby boys are sooooo fun and boy kitties are needy. I bet he follows you everywhere! Thanks for posting!


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## *NYC Princess*

Thanks!!  Hmm I didn't know that boy cats are needy, maybe that helps to explain his behavior....he does follow me everywhere!  It's super cute but I feel bad when I have to get ready quick in the morning for work.


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## bnjj

I didn't know that was a common trait with males but it certainly explains why my Sydney is glued to me at all times.  I can't get him off of me,   whereas my female is totally aloof and rarely wants to sit on me.


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## babieejae1101

My cat is extremely needy. He is extremely attached to me and he meows 24/7.


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## finzup

I have been feeding dry food to my kitties and was going to switch to wellness dry  (since that's what my dog eats) when I stumbled across this thread.. and now.. I'm going to switch them to canned based on what I've been reading. 

My questions are  --
How do you deal with feeding multiple cats? I have a dominant kitty (also, he's slightly overweight) that could potentially eat more food than he should -- How do I ensure that my other kitty (who's at a perfect weight) eats what she should?  Currently I just fill up the bowl with dry food and they munch on it all day long whenever they get hungry. 

Any ideas on how much to feed them? My male is 22 pounds (he's not that much overweight though -- he's a big kitty) and my female is a small cat (8-9 pounds). I can't see feeding them the same amounts. I read in the thread that 3 oz twice a day is good. That would probably work for my small kitty but not the big one? 

Thanks


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## nathansgirl1908

This is a great thread.  I learned this the hard way.  I was actually feeding my baby Eukanuba Chicken and Rice.  She kept getting UTI's.  Finally the vet told me to stop feeding her that and give her C/D which is a prescription food for cats to help with urinary tracts issues.  Things are much better now.  Plus my cat was overweight and now she has finally gotten down to a healthy weight.


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## Tracy

finzup said:


> I have been feeding dry food to my kitties and was going to switch to wellness dry (since that's what my dog eats) when I stumbled across this thread.. and now.. I'm going to switch them to canned based on what I've been reading.
> 
> My questions are --
> How do you deal with feeding multiple cats? I have a dominant kitty (also, he's slightly overweight) that could potentially eat more food than he should -- How do I ensure that my other kitty (who's at a perfect weight) eats what she should? Currently I just fill up the bowl with dry food and they munch on it all day long whenever they get hungry.
> 
> Any ideas on how much to feed them? My male is 22 pounds (he's not that much overweight though -- he's a big kitty) and my female is a small cat (8-9 pounds). I can't see feeding them the same amounts. I read in the thread that 3 oz twice a day is good. That would probably work for my small kitty but not the big one?
> 
> Thanks


 

after i read this a few months ago i switched, too.

*finz~* maybe you can feed them in different rooms and try to keep the separated for feeding??


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## oscarcat729

We're feeding our kitties Science Diet Kitty dry and wet foods. What's wrong with it? (It was on the not recommended dry food list)


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## tiramisu

finzup said:


> I have been feeding dry food to my kitties and was going to switch to wellness dry  (since that's what my dog eats) when I stumbled across this thread.. and now.. I'm going to switch them to canned based on what I've been reading.
> 
> My questions are  --
> How do you deal with feeding multiple cats? I have a dominant kitty (also, he's slightly overweight) that could potentially eat more food than he should -- How do I ensure that my other kitty (who's at a perfect weight) eats what she should?  Currently I just fill up the bowl with dry food and they munch on it all day long whenever they get hungry.
> 
> Any ideas on how much to feed them? My male is 22 pounds (he's not that much overweight though -- he's a big kitty) and my female is a small cat (8-9 pounds). I can't see feeding them the same amounts. I read in the thread that 3 oz twice a day is good. That would probably work for my small kitty but not the big one?
> 
> Thanks



I think the agreed  general rule is that a cat's caloric intake or metabolic energy requirement (MER) should be 45 to 80 kcal/kg/day depending on the activity level of individual cat. And if you have an overweight cat, calculate it per ideal body weight and not the current weight. And you want at least 30% of that caloric intake to be protein to maintain healthy muscle tone. You can use a food calculator like this to help you figure out how much to feed your kitty: http://www.petdiets.com/

Feeding multiple cat household is sure challenging!!! If you really want to, you will need to have some physical barrier, hence feeding in separate areas may be the only way. My cat Chiclet is about 19#, Wrigley 16#, Star 14#, Tiramisu 12#, and Venus 7#. Venus is in kidney failure and she is the one that gets more attention in terms of heatlh care right now. I feed her in a separate room more than twice a day since I do not want her to lose weight. She will go to the other cats eating area to eat, too, which I am fine with. But when I am feeding extra to Venus, I close the door so the other cats won't take over. At the same time, the others will come and eat her food, too... The other 4 gets the same amount. The difference is that they don't seem to eat the same amount. I never free fed my cats after kittenhood. And I determine whether I am feeding too much or too less by simply assessing their body weight. Chiclet and Star are more overweight than Wrigley and Tiramisu. With feeding 3 oz. twice daily of my canned/raw food mix, they all seem to be doing fine. No one is getting skinny and no one is gaining more weight, and they all seem to be content. I think we all know when our kitties are hungry because they won't leave you alone!!!


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## twin53

interesting list


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## finzup

tiramisu said:


> I think the agreed general rule is that a cat's caloric intake or metabolic energy requirement (MER) should be 45 to 80 kcal/kg/day depending on the activity level of individual cat. And if you have an overweight cat, calculate it per ideal body weight and not the current weight. And you want at least 30% of that caloric intake to be protein to maintain healthy muscle tone. You can use a food calculator like this to help you figure out how much to feed your kitty: http://www.petdiets.com/
> 
> Feeding multiple cat household is sure challenging!!! If you really want to, you will need to have some physical barrier, hence feeding in separate areas may be the only way. My cat Chiclet is about 19#, Wrigley 16#, Star 14#, Tiramisu 12#, and Venus 7#. Venus is in kidney failure and she is the one that gets more attention in terms of heatlh care right now. I feed her in a separate room more than twice a day since I do not want her to lose weight. She will go to the other cats eating area to eat, too, which I am fine with. But when I am feeding extra to Venus, I close the door so the other cats won't take over. At the same time, the others will come and eat her food, too... The other 4 gets the same amount. The difference is that they don't seem to eat the same amount. I never free fed my cats after kittenhood. And I determine whether I am feeding too much or too less by simply assessing their body weight. Chiclet and Star are more overweight than Wrigley and Tiramisu. With feeding 3 oz. twice daily of my canned/raw food mix, they all seem to be doing fine. No one is getting skinny and no one is gaining more weight, and they all seem to be content. I think we all know when our kitties are hungry because they won't leave you alone!!!


 

Thanks for the advice.. and btw I love your kitties names


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## finzup

nolarice said:


> after i read this a few months ago i switched, too.
> 
> *finz~* maybe you can feed them in different rooms and try to keep the separated for feeding??


 
what kind of food did you end up switching to? How did the whole switching process go? Did they like the canned food better?


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## Miyoshi637

OH man, I need to give my babies more wet food! But I do feed em really good dry food, blue buffalo. I need to go to Petsmart tomorrow and get them some more wet food. They'll be so happy because they only get wet every other week!


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## cafire

One of my cats had frequent UTIs and ended up having an operation to remove kidney stones.  She was put on Hills XD (now CD multicare) prescription diet, and has never had a problem since...this was 9 years ago.  So I don't know about all Science Diet foods, but this one has been instrumental in keeping her healthy.  She gets the cans and the dry food.

My other cat eats Wellness wet and dry.  She prefers the dry, but I only give her between 1/8 to 1/4 cup a day.  I make her eat the wet since it's better for her.  I took her for her 1 year check up last week and she weighed in at 10 lbs.  I asked if she was overweight and they said 'she could lose a pound or two.'  And then they suggested I switch her SOLELY to dry food.  I said I specifically do NOT feed mostly dry due to carb content, etc.  She still tried to push the dry.  That's when I stopped listening.  I mean, this was the VET!  What's up with THAT?


----------



## tiramisu

^^
I know, some vets are taught one way because the big pet food companies paid for their education, etc. When I started in the profession, I was told the same thing. Dry food is better and we pretty much don't need to feed them canned food unless they are kittens or not eating, etc. And Hill's used to (maybe they still do) give free food to veterinary students, sponsor seminars, etc., so there are some marketing strategy there. The main thing is that cats are not small dogs, and I think it has only been within the last 10 years this idea has been slowly 'practiced. If you take your cat to feline only hospital or feline specialty vet, or a board certified veterinary nutritionist, they won't tell you to switch to solely dry food.


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## elle1777

Does anyone know why Hill's Science Diet is not recommended? my cat had a nasty I guess digestive problem and the vet recommended science diet ( the kind only sold at vets) and it did the trick. Thanks for all the info!


----------



## Lululapell

Great article and ideas.
I have gone one step further and feed my animals a raw food diet. From the time I started they have been healthier, their coats are gorgeous and they have slimmed down to a healthy weight. 
The only one I don't feed raw is my brain damaged one because he doesn't know how and won't eat anything but dry. For him I purchase Wellness (the white bag that doesn't have grains in it).


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## buzzytoes

I just typed a great long message and somehow deleted it....the gist of my story was one of our cats was diagnosed with diabetes, I changed their diet to California Natural (it had always been Meow Mix before) and after two months Darius was completely regulated and off of his insulin. I am a FIRM believer in how diet can effect the health of an animal! Eventually I would like to put the cats and dogs on a raw diet but I have yet to figure out how to do that for the same amount of money that I am spending on prepared food. 

*Finzup *(love your nick!) - I feed our heavier cat (who weighs about as much as yours) in the bathroom and feed the others in their feeding area. I leave him in there while I get ready for work in the morning and then for about an hour in the evening when I feed them all again. He sucks his food down in five seconds flat and the other two cats are grazers so I like to make sure they have plenty of time to get their fill before I let him out.


----------



## _bella_

I've fed a grain free diet to my cats for a little over a year. 
I wish I could feed my two a raw meat diet, but my lifestyle would make it too difficult to do. so, they get high quality canned with absolutely no fillers. When my MIL was caring for them, she asked why I don't just buy the canned food from the grocery and I said because all but ONE flavor at the market has grains and added sugars. When in the evolution of a cat have they needed processed sugars?? 
I do give them raw chewy muscle meats or a raw chicken neck, a few times a week to help keep their teeth cleaner. Their coats are shiny, whiskers long and luxurious, nails strong, eyes bright, teeth clean, gums pink and healthy, and breath isn't stinky, their poop is not smelly at all, and their weight is normal and is easy to maintain. 
I had to seek out a new vet though. My previous vet was super keen on Science diet, and no surprise that was all that he sold in his clinic, and my previous cat died from various issues that could have been postponed much longer had he been on a better diet. IMHO, of course.


----------



## buzzytoes

Just curious for anyone who feeds their cat a raw diet - do you grind up the food or just give it to them? One of my cats had to have all his back teeth removed due to stomatitis that was giving him problems. He still has his incisors but that is about it. I am worried that if I eventually moved to a raw diet he wouldn't be able to chew how he needs to.


----------



## redney

Great thread! I used to feed my cat canned food at dinner time and she just gobbled it right up...so much so that I thought her slight overweightness was caused by canned food so I switched her off it to Iams weight/hairball dry food. She eats it but I can tell doesn't really LOVE it.

I'm going to move her back onto canned food, thanks to this thread!! (My cat also sends you guys HER thanks since she just loved her canned food)


----------



## tiramisu

buzzytoes said:


> Just curious for anyone who feeds their cat a raw diet - do you grind up the food or just give it to them? One of my cats had to have all his back teeth removed due to stomatitis that was giving him problems. He still has his incisors but that is about it. I am worried that if I eventually moved to a raw diet he wouldn't be able to chew how he needs to.



If you kitty does not have any premolars left (which are those two upper teeth that are the biggest in size), I would grind up the meat for him. Without those premolars, which works to sheer the meat, I think it would be hard... 

This brand is expensive, but for those who want to try raw diet for your kitties but don't want to prepare on your own, I found it to be one of the best prepared food out there: http://www.felinespride.com/flash/intro.html The consistency of the raw is pretty well grinded.


----------



## Lululapell

finzup said:


> I have been feeding dry food to my kitties and was going to switch to wellness dry (since that's what my dog eats) when I stumbled across this thread.. and now.. I'm going to switch them to canned based on what I've been reading.
> 
> My questions are --
> How do you deal with feeding multiple cats? I have a dominant kitty (also, he's slightly overweight) that could potentially eat more food than he should -- How do I ensure that my other kitty (who's at a perfect weight) eats what she should? Currently I just fill up the bowl with dry food and they munch on it all day long whenever they get hungry.
> 
> Any ideas on how much to feed them? My male is 22 pounds (he's not that much overweight though -- he's a big kitty) and my female is a small cat (8-9 pounds). I can't see feeding them the same amounts. I read in the thread that 3 oz twice a day is good. That would probably work for my small kitty but not the big one?
> 
> Thanks


 
*You need to seperate them and give them a certain amount of time to eat. Then pick up the food. *


----------



## Lululapell

nathansgirl1908 said:


> This is a great thread. I learned this the hard way. I was actually feeding my baby Eukanuba Chicken and Rice. She kept getting UTI's. Finally the vet told me to stop feeding her that and give her C/D which is a prescription food for cats to help with urinary tracts issues. Things are much better now. Plus my cat was overweight and now she has finally gotten down to a healthy weight.


 
*I had/have a cat with UTI issues and I feed her raw and Wellness moist. It is the best I've found so far to keep the UTI's away.*


----------



## Lululapell

tiramisu said:


> Venus is in kidney failure and she is the one that gets more attention in terms of heatlh care right now. I feed her in a separate room more than twice a day since I do not want her to lose weight. She will go to the other cats eating area to eat, too, which I am fine with. But when I am feeding extra to Venus, I close the door so the other cats won't take over.


 
*My Henry was in kidney failure for the last 2 years that we had him. Are you giving your crew distilled water? This was a lifesaver for him. Not only did he stop vomiting but it was so much better for his kidneys, processing wise. *
*I also put him and the rest of my crew on a raw food diet. He gained several pounds (which was huge for him!) and my rubenesque one lost weight. Go figure.*


----------



## Lululapell

buzzytoes said:


> Just curious for anyone who feeds their cat a raw diet - do you grind up the food or just give it to them? One of my cats had to have all his back teeth removed due to stomatitis that was giving him problems. He still has his incisors but that is about it. I am worried that if I eventually moved to a raw diet he wouldn't be able to chew how he needs to.


 
I feed raw and I purchase the ground turkey from Walmart. It comes in different sized tubes, so you can gauge with how many cats you have.  I use 1 of the smallest tubes for 4 cats, per day. This is mixed with greens, lysine when they are getting sick, omega oils, and ground flax seed. If you have a cat that needs to gain a bit of weight, you can add in oatmeal or barley once or twice a week.
All of my cats are sickly. I volunteer at a cat shelter, so I tend to take the ones that won't get a home because they are chronic.

Here is my crew:
Miss Sunday (10-12ish) was rescued from the Wild Cat Ranch in San Antonio, TX. They wanted to put her down (along with 90% of the population) but she was saved by an angel. It took her 6 months to walk again, another 6 months at our house to walk without looking like a drunk. She is completely deaf (due to malnutrition) and blind in 1 eye, almost blind in the other. She weighs in at 4.8 pounds but eats like a horse. For her body type, she should weigh 8 or more pounds. She had/has chronic stomatitis so we had to have all of her teeth pulled. She is 100% better now. She has a hard time cleaning herself and gets chin acne. She is the one that makes me realize that every day is a gift. She almost died, should have died, but she fought. She fought to live. She is truly a story.

Lucy (4) (my bodecious babe) was grabbed and rushed to the doctor as soon as she came to the shelter. She has a chronic upper resp. infection/virus and always has a weepy eye or two. She went from 5 pounds to 10 in a year with us. She is the mother of everyone, cleans Sunday and tolerates even my nastiest cat. 

Mimi (4) is my baby. She is a full blooded Seal Point Siamese and thinks she is my child. She is also the nastiest, most ill tempered cat I have ever owned. Heck, that I've ever met! LOL But I absolutely adore this cat. She tolerates my kids, the other animals when she has to (the dog is terrified of her). She weighs in at 4 pounds and is all mouth. When she asked me if she could come home with me (yes, we communicate), she was incontinent. Her story: she has chronic bladder infections. Apparently her owner wasn't listening to her one day and she peed in the middle of his bed. He kicked her across the room. When his foot connected with her tail, he shattered it and damaged her bladder. He then dumped her at the front door of his vet. She had surgery the next day and they took off her tail. What they didn't know was the extent of the damage to her bladder and uterus. After a year of chinese herbs, aligning and accupuncture, she only leaks when she is sick. She also has severe stomatitis, which I keep at bay with herbs and Cholodial Silver.

Forrest (10) was adopted about a month ago. He came to the shelter 2 years ago with cigarette burns all over his body and almost no hair. It took me 6 months to get him to look at me and not shakle when I pet him, and then another 6 months to purr when being pet. 6 months ago he climbed into my lap to be loved. And now (because my Henry passed over the rainbow bridge and we had room at the house), he is now at home with us and sleeping happily on the bed. He follows me around like a puppy most days. What I didn't realize, until I got him home with us, was the amount of brain damage he has. Whether this was how he was born or happened during excessive abuse, we will never know. 

Mr. Rumbles (14) is my old fart. I grabbed him when I took in Forrest because he is in kidney failure like my Hen was. He hates the other animals, he loves his heated bed, and he loves to be pet. I haven't figured him out yet. We've had him 3 weeks and I'm not sure he is happy here. 


The picture is (L to R)
Forrest, Lucy and Sunday.
Mimi refused to be photographed and Ms. Rumbles just kept sleeping.


----------



## GirlFriday

Lululapell said:


> I feed raw and I purchase the ground turkey from Walmart. It comes in different sized tubes, so you can gauge with how many cats you have. I use 1 of the smallest tubes for 4 cats, per day. This is mixed with greens, lysine when they are getting sick, omega oils, and ground flax seed. If you have a cat that needs to gain a bit of weight, you can add in oatmeal or barley once or twice a week.
> All of my cats are sickly. I volunteer at a cat shelter, so I tend to take the ones that won't get a home because they are chronic.
> 
> Here is my crew:
> Miss Sunday (10-12ish) was rescued from the Wild Cat Ranch in San Antonio, TX. They wanted to put her down (along with 90% of the population) but she was saved by an angel. It took her 6 months to walk again, another 6 months at our house to walk without looking like a drunk. She is completely deaf (due to malnutrition) and blind in 1 eye, almost blind in the other. She weighs in at 4.8 pounds but eats like a horse. For her body type, she should weigh 8 or more pounds. She had/has chronic stomatitis so we had to have all of her teeth pulled. She is 100% better now. She has a hard time cleaning herself and gets chin acne. She is the one that makes me realize that every day is a gift. She almost died, should have died, but she fought. She fought to live. She is truly a story.
> 
> Lucy (4) (my bodecious babe) was grabbed and rushed to the doctor as soon as she came to the shelter. She has a chronic upper resp. infection/virus and always has a weepy eye or two. She went from 5 pounds to 10 in a year with us. She is the mother of everyone, cleans Sunday and tolerates even my nastiest cat.
> 
> Mimi (4) is my baby. She is a full blooded Seal Point Siamese and thinks she is my child. She is also the nastiest, most ill tempered cat I have ever owned. Heck, that I've ever met! LOL But I absolutely adore this cat. She tolerates my kids, the other animals when she has to (the dog is terrified of her). She weighs in at 4 pounds and is all mouth. When she asked me if she could come home with me (yes, we communicate), she was incontinent. Her story: she has chronic bladder infections. Apparently her owner wasn't listening to her one day and she peed in the middle of his bed. He kicked her across the room. When his foot connected with her tail, he shattered it and damaged her bladder. He then dumped her at the front door of his vet. She had surgery the next day and they took off her tail. What they didn't know was the extent of the damage to her bladder and uterus. After a year of chinese herbs, aligning and accupuncture, she only leaks when she is sick. She also has severe stomatitis, which I keep at bay with herbs and Cholodial Silver.
> 
> Forrest (10) was adopted about a month ago. He came to the shelter 2 years ago with cigarette burns all over his body and almost no hair. It took me 6 months to get him to look at me and not shakle when I pet him, and then another 6 months to purr when being pet. 6 months ago he climbed into my lap to be loved. And now (because my Henry passed over the rainbow bridge and we had room at the house), he is now at home with us and sleeping happily on the bed. He follows me around like a puppy most days. What I didn't realize, until I got him home with us, was the amount of brain damage he has. Whether this was how he was born or happened during excessive abuse, we will never know.
> 
> Mr. Rumbles (14) is my old fart. I grabbed him when I took in Forrest because he is in kidney failure like my Hen was. He hates the other animals, he loves his heated bed, and he loves to be pet. I haven't figured him out yet. We've had him 3 weeks and I'm not sure he is happy here.
> 
> 
> The picture is (L to R)
> Forrest, Lucy and Sunday.
> Mimi refused to be photographed and Ms. Rumbles just kept sleeping.


 
Cute kittens! We just got two new Russian Blues and my husband bought Felidae (sp?) which is luckily on the good list.  We've noticed a huge difference, because the lady we got them from (who was sharp as a tack and really good at caring for them) fed them Purina.  We thought that was odd, since she was so good at taking care of them.  Oh well, but one other good reason to feed them better is the smells coming from the litter box aren't nearly as bad when you feed your cats well.  We were glad when Purina got out of their system.


----------



## Lululapell

GirlFriday said:


> Cute kittens! We just got two new Russian Blues and my husband bought Felidae (sp?) which is luckily on the good list. We've noticed a huge difference, because the lady we got them from (who was sharp as a tack and really good at caring for them) fed them Purina. We thought that was odd, since she was so good at taking care of them. Oh well, but one other good reason to feed them better is the smells coming from the litter box aren't nearly as bad when you feed your cats well. We were glad when Purina got out of their system.


 
I hadn't thought about the smell, but you are so right. It doesn't wreak as much.


----------



## cinderella388

Thank you ALL for your knowledgable posts!  I adopted two cats this past Sunday from a shelter and the wet food I have been feeding them is the Purina Pro Plan!  The lady at the shelter said that is what I should feed them since she has been feeding them that!  Ack!  I need to slowly get them off this and onto a better quality one fast!  How'd you all do the switcheroo?  Mix in a little bit of the old cat food with the new cat food day by day and then slowly just give them the new cat food entirely?


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## strawberrysky

this is really interesting. thanks for posting!


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## caitlin1214

My parents usually put in about a half a cup of dry food in each of their bowls in the morning and it's there all day. They don't add any more and they throw it out at the end of the day. 

They use Iams Hairball Care. One of my babies, Louis, is longhaired cat and we find he horks up a lot less when he's eating that particular food.


Their canned food is Paul Newman. They have a particular flavor they absolutely love and after the whole pet food recall scare I have banned my parents from buying any food with gravy in it.

It used to be that the canned food was their dinner and last I checked, it was half a small can each. Lately it got to be earlier and earlier, so now I believe my parents are feeding them canned food at around noon.


----------



## Tracy

*NYC Princess* said:


> My bf and I recently adopted a cat from a local rescue organization, and we found out a lot about the proper way to feed a cat, and many common misconceptions.  The rescue organization specializes in cats, and got the information from books and vets.  Feeding cats dry food or cheaper canned foodscause our cats to not be as healthy and can lead to serious health problems down the line.  It's not just about what is easier to feed our cats, or what they prefer to eat.
> 
> I wanted to highlight bullets of what I felt to be the important information for you all here so that our loved babies get the best care and live long and healthy!  The main thing is that a high quality *CANNED FOOD IS BEST*.
> 
> *Cats need animal based proteint.*  Cats are carnivores and very different from dogs in their nutritional needs.  Cats need animal-based protein, and the protein in dry food is heavily plant-based, and not equal to the quality in the protein in canned foods, which are meat-based.
> *We are feeding cats too many carbs.  *In their natural settings, cats would not consume the high level of carbs (grains) that are in dry foods.  In the wild, a cat's diet is 3-6% carbs.  The average dry food contains 35-50% carbs; cheaper brands may have even more.
> *Look for a muscle meat in the first ingredient.*  When reading the ingredient label of a cat food, it should have a muscle meat as the first ingredient, not a organ meat.  For example, it should read "chicken" not "chicken meal", "chicken by-products," "chicken broth," or "liver".
> *Dry food linked to serious health problems.*  Dry cat food has been linked to:
> Diabetes (from high level of carbs in dry food)
> Kidney failure (cats are often chronically dehydrated on a dry food diet)
> Bladder inflammation/kidney stones (cats on dry food have more highly concentrated urine)
> Inflammatory bowel disease (many anecedotal reports of cats with IBS improving dramatically when all dry food removed from their diet)
> Obesity (again carbs)
> Fatty liver disease
> Dental disease (long standing claims that cats have less dental disease when fed dry food are grossly overrated, inaccurate and not supported by recent studies.  Dry food is hard, but brittle, and merely shatters with little to no abrasive effect on the teeth.  Cats' teeth are meant to grind  meat, and so dry food ends up between their teeth and ferments into sugar, causing dental problems.  Also, many cats swallow the majority of their food whole, eliminating any benefit from chewing.
> 
> *Stick to twice-daily feedings* (does not apply to kittens).  Feed 3 oz of canned food twice a day, and try to stick to the same times.  Cats may beg to be fed more often, but more than that can lead to obesity.  Also leaving dry food between meals have led to ancedotes about dandruff on the cats' coats.
> *FINALLY...recommended cat foods:*
> 
> Wet food
> Nature's Recipe Optimum
> California Natural
> Pet Guard Premium
> Natural Choice/Max Cat
> Wysong
> Iams
> Innova
> Wellness
> Felidae
> Precise
> Nature's Variety
> Wysong's Au Jus Canned Meats
> Wysong's Archetype
> Avoderm Select Cuts
> Merrick
> 
> Wet food for kittens
> Max Kitten
> Triumph Turkey for Kittens
> Iams Kitten
> Precise
> 
> Wet Foods Not Recommended (unfortunately these are the most common brands)
> Purina
> 9-Lives
> Fancy Feast
> Friskies
> Alpo
> Whiskas
> Kalkan
> Sheba
> Amore
> 
> Dry Foods Not Recommended
> Hills' Science Diet
> Iams Original Flavor
> Eukanuba Chicken & Rice
> Bil Jac
> Waltham Adult
> Proplan Beef & Rice
> 
> Not meaning to be preachy here by any means, but I hope that this information will help all of our kitties to be happy and healthy for many years to come!



when this was first posted i switched my cat's food.
he's been eating the Natural Choice. the only other recommended wet food my pet smart carries is the Iams. 
well, today i read the ingredients again. and in the Natural Choice the first ingredient (in 3 flavors) is Chicken broth. which by the info above^^ is not good. I also read the Iams can and it said the same.
now i am confused and wonder if i'm feeding my cat a healthy diet??
and is there any other --commonly found-- GOOD wet cat food??
help!


----------



## mellie

i'm all for Innova and Wellness but my kitten has liquidy poop, although the vet gave her a clean bill of health the vet keeps telling me to give her Purina....what gives???


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## *NYC Princess*

Tracy said:


> when this was first posted i switched my cat's food.
> he's been eating the Natural Choice. the only other recommended wet food my pet smart carries is the Iams.
> well, today i read the ingredients again. and in the Natural Choice the first ingredient (in 3 flavors) is Chicken broth. which by the info above^^ is not good. I also read the Iams can and it said the same.
> now i am confused and wonder if i'm feeding my cat a healthy diet??
> and is there any other --commonly found-- GOOD wet cat food??
> help!


 
Wow, I haven't checked back here in a while!  I'm glad to see that it seems relatively well received.   I haven't fed my cat anything besides Wellness, but after a year on it, he is now sleek and healthy.  

The Wellness website has a "where to buy" section (upper right).  

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/#

Also, not sure where you live, but http://www.premiumpetsetc.com/ delivers free in NYC.  Petfooddirect.com also gives 10% off if you do autodelivery of pet food:
http://www.petfooddirect.com/store/...m_mmc_o=HFzbkCjCInvioCjC2AlfBFwyniCjCzAfBltb5

There are also many websites that do free shipping over a certain $$ amount, or specials.  

Hope this helps you and your kitty to stay healthy in the new year and many more to come!  :okay:


----------



## Tracy

Thanks for replying! I forgot I posted 
I will check out the Wellness link, thanks so much!


----------



## SunnyT

Curious, does anyone here feed a BaRF diet? I see mentions of raw, but I'm looking at specific percentages of body materials (bones, cartilage, tissue). I did a lot of research on it, but it wouldn't have meshed with our lifestyle at the time. We feed Evo kibble; one of our cats has a grain allergy and the other is supposed to eat dry only, per the vet.


----------



## glamourpanda

twiggers said:


> My cats LOVE wet food....but I use it as just a treat. Normally they just get dry food. Except for one of the cats they are all overweight  I am going to look into this more!



It is true wet cat food is better than dry cat food, though its not only the type of food that causes weight gain, etc.

Proper quantity and rationing is very important. Overfeeding your cats can have negative effects. Maybe cutting down the intake could be a solution.

Though you should consult with your vet before making drastic changes in their diet.


----------



## redskater

Tracy said:


> when this was first posted i switched my cat's food.
> he's been eating the Natural Choice. the only other recommended wet food my pet smart carries is the Iams.
> well, today i read the ingredients again. and in the Natural Choice the first ingredient (in 3 flavors) is Chicken broth. which by the info above^^ is not good. I also read the Iams can and it said the same.
> now i am confused and wonder if i'm feeding my cat a healthy diet??
> and is there any other --commonly found-- GOOD wet cat food??
> help!



I'm not too familiar with this brand but for some reason petsmart doesn't really have that great of a canned cat food section.  

Another really good brand that is not on the above list is Natural Balance by Dick Van Patten.  PetCo carries it along with wellness and quite a few others that are good.  maybe you could call a petco and have them ship some to you or order on line.  My kitties are super finicky and they love the natural balance. Good luck!


----------



## nycgirl191

I rethought all my pet food after that big melamine scandal.  My older cat who doesn't really like wet is now on Wellness CORE, which is grain-free, supplemented by Wellness CORE wet and BFF wet.  

My kitten, Meekus, who is intolerant of poultry, lives on Weruva and Merrick Surf & Turf and EVO beef (all wet).

I agree it is a much bigger hassle to have to change food often, rather than leave dry out, but the health benefits are enormous!  Both kitties are in great form, good weight, and healthy!


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## PitterCat

*NYC Princess*, thank you for starting this thread, and I joined to bump it when I saw a recent post where somebody's vet put the poor cat on Hills Science Fiction for being overweight.   (Ummm, if they only knew that the over-processing of the "ingredients" is what makes the cat WANT to eat less, not to mention, that such cheap, horrible "ingredients in "less over-processed form" is what *got* the cat overweight in the first place!)  

All I'd like to add is info regarding the veterinarian "relationship" with the commercial pet food companies, and why it is imperative for pet parents to find a (Holistic) vet who does not have this conflict of interest:

http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html
Harvard Law student's paper explaining every little detail. 

And
http://www.optimumchoices.com/Vet_Nutrition_Seminar.htm
Vet Nutrition Seminar 

Thanks again for this thread.  Wonder how many cats' lives it will save....knowledge is power. Have to wonder why all this information is not "mainstream" ... Those Dirty advertising and revenue Dollars are mighty powewrful!!


----------



## mal

Wow- I'm glad you started this **NYC Princess** and that you bumped it *PitterCat* so I happened upon it today! I am always preaching about this; I feel sooo many cats are sickened by their diets. I lost my male cat Levi to bladder issues at the age of 8. I didn't realize what was going on and  I thought I was keeping him so healthy! Later, I found the book "The Whole Pet Diet by Andi Brown, after reading about it in Bark magazine. I switched my girls from dry Wellness to homemade food from the book that was very wet. I found a way I think is good for weaning them off the addictive "junk food". I started them on the twice a day feeding schedule, leaving the dry food out for two hours at a time at first, then gradually reducing the amount of time. The result was that they got used to a feeding routine and to eating *when* I fed them rather than ad-lib snacking all day. Their appetites were sharpened and they were primed for a change. So then I cut the dry food way back and offered small amounts of the wet food. When they started eating it I just weaned them off the dry. This process took a month. Each cat eats about 1/2 cup, twice a day. I have three; all different sizes but this on average seems to be a good amount. I weigh them to monitor for weight gain/loss. The most dramatic thing that happened was they changed from water obsessed (drinking from the dog's bowl, sink, tub-we've all seen it!) to NEVER drinking water!!! That's when I really realized how dry food hurts cats- they can't compensate for the dehydration it causes their system. Anyway; now I feed Wellness canned but I mush it with warm/hot water a little right before feeding. I'm on a mission to tell people how bad dry food is! I will always feel horrible about how my Levi died (after $3000 worth of surgery, etc) and I don't feel that most vets know anything about this stuff.
Thanks for listening, and for caring about your pets enough to write about this!


----------



## lucywife

I have a question-would it be ok to give some cottage cheese (5% fat) to 11 weeks old kitten? I was giving her a little every morning and it looks like she likes it more that anything else she eats. I was thinking since it's protein and calcium nothing bad could happen? 
I also feed her wet canned food by brands that are listed as good ones on the first page of this thread, and some boiled chicken and hen.
Another question, can I mix a tiny bit of grounded flax seed into canned food? It is too early to give her some boiled egg yolk yet?
Also, what about that organic wheatgrass for cats? Is it too early? 
Thank you.


----------



## Coal Creek

Has anyone tried Weruva?  It is the best cat food!  No meat-by products.  It's human grade food and processed in a human food facility.  I'm not kidding the most finiky cat will eat this food.  They have the best flavors and it smells great and it's good for cats.  Here's the website for Weruva ...

http://www.weruva.com/


----------



## DenimShopaholic

^ My cats love Weruva!!  They go crazy for the Mideast feast, Mediterranean Harvest, Polynesian BBQ, and Meow Luau.  

I also started them on BFF (also by Weruva). They have about 10 flavors, and so far it's been fairly successful.  My cats like about 4 of the flavors.


----------



## lucywife

After reading this thread I've decided to try Weruva, well..well..seems that my princess won't eat anything else now except Nine Liver, Funky-Chunky, Steak Frites, and other chicken-beef meals that Weruva makes  Completely ignores seafood/fish meals, no biggie. I'm feeding her some raw chiken and turkey from time to time.


----------



## wigglytuff

I read threw most of this thread and some of it worries me. 

firstly I dont think any website should be the finally word on what you feed your pet: 

YOU MUST TALK TO YOUR VET FIRST and at every visit.  i asked my vets (i see two, each cat gets one visit a year with each vet) and they both said that they feed their cats purina cat chow. which is on the list of "bad" foods.  they both said they rotate between wet and dry food.

i feed my cats purina one dry, and purina proplan wet.  thats what i feed them so thats the food i know the most about.  i still dont know why its on the list of "bad" foods: 

1- they have never had a cat food recall, and of all the dog food brands only alpo which was purchased from another company has had a recall. 
2- they are among the very few  pet food makers who control the production of their product at every single step outsourcing nothing. 
3- the first ingredient in the foods i select is meat or fish, not a by product, although they DO sell products with a by product as the first ingredient. 
4- my cats are VERY active, healthy, fit without being overweight and have shiny healthy coats. 
5- they get a mix of wet and dry food just like the vets say they should and they fine!

iams is on the list of "good" foods and they have been recalled many a times.

also consumer reports advises not to spend on untested expensive brands
http://pressroom.consumerreports.or...s-pricey-pet-food-not-necessarily-better.html


----------



## wigglytuff

dont believe me about iams versus purina? 

google "iams killed my cat" in quotes 11,200 results including a ton of videos.  and google "purina killed my cat" in quotes. you will get one result - this page me saying how there are no results.


----------



## lisalovesshoes

Two of my SO's family cats both have dental problems cos she would only eat wet food! The other loves her biscuits and don't have the same issue... 

Their vet said that's why they recommend 80-20 dry to wet food! So I followed this for awhile.. until I saw another vet at the same hospital for my roommate's cat and he said dry food is best and to give wet food as a treat only! But when I adopted my 2 newest babies a month ago, the vet and staff there told me to give them a 50-50 amount of dry and wet.. 

All the vets did recommend hill's or royal canin though...

I personally believe a healthy balance of a variety of food! I'd hate to be only eating 1 type of food for the rest of my life! (Although I'd be happy to eat a lifetime supply of cheese.. then again, it'll have to be different types of cheese! See! ) At the moment I am feeding them 50-50, wet food in the morning and dry at night... with whatever raw meet I'm cooking with a few times a week as a treat! I try to give them as little seafood as I can, my SO can't stand the smell and I just don't think cats would naturally catch a lot of fish...


----------



## BAGLADY-SHOEFLY

Hoping someone can chime in here. I am getting a kitty sometime in the next month so I am shopping around for eco friendly litter and food. I found the box and litter I will use but this food thing is tough. So I am hoping someone can tell me what they think of this diet. ! can of approved Fancy Feast split into night and day as per her/his weight and 1/2 cup wellness core to snack on throughout the day if needed? Any thoughts on kitty treats? TIA


----------



## beeb

^ Try Greenies for the treats, and TJ for dry food.


----------



## bunnymasseuse

I would skip the Fancy Feast, try Before Grains wet or Innova or Orijen or Fromm wet food.  Cat litter that's semi-eco friendly would be things like Yesterday's News, or even the Pine litter.


----------



## juneping

i bought fancy feast..and i read the ingredients..they seemed fine to me. i couldn't find weruva or others that was highly recommended. i will try looking for them tho.
i just had my cat for slightly less than 2 weeks....her diet is much healthier than 2 weeks ago. she used to prefer dry food. now she would eat wet food (she would not touch any "flakes" textured wet food) 1/2 can morning and another 1/2 evening. and i only leave her limited dry food (wellness) thru out the day so she can munch on - also to keep her teeth healthy.
i have to say, i noticed her coat is much softer than she first got here, considering it's only been 2 weeks.


----------



## lolitakali

I believe in a variety of different foods AKA buffet style (so kitty have a choice) is better for kitty, albeit it is a more expensive way of course.

4 reasons:

#1)
If one brand is contaminated... 
(there is no guarantee that even the best of efforts from the brands itself, the meat / ingredients they buy to make their food can also contaminate the brand, etc.)
Kitty has a choice (using her own nose and judgment) to eat the other food choice left out for it.  

Means she does not have to "put up" and eat that "bad" food just because she is hungry.

#2) 
How we get anti-venom from horses theory or AKA the Egyptian King's "immunity to poison" theory (where they ingest a bit of poison and over time build up immunity)...

I believe if a cat food is contaminated and you happen to feed it to kitty and she eats it... if it is in a "small enough" portion of ingestion, there is a higher chance her own body can purge it out (be it poison or a bacteria contamination) since the contaminant is "weaker". 

Thus higher chance of your kitty not getting too sick from it or die from it.

#3) 
Kitty gets the best coverage of all the different vitamins & minerals...

Just like in the ingredients, not all foods and vitamins are made equal. 
Say a brand used an expired dated taurine and don't know it, never fear because you have provided kitty with a source 2 taurine from another branded food.

#4) 
Training the "Iron Stomach".
-Notice how they always urge the change of foods from different brands be made slowly?

Since little, I have the fortune to be exposed to many different foods and have built an "iron stomach" (Chinese term), and no allergies to food whatsoever because I have never been picky with what I eat.
(Even though sushi did give me the runs when I first ate it (raw) at 10 but have gotten so used to it anymore that my digestive system can handle it without any problems.)

I believe in exposing kitty to different foods too when she is little so she has that same food immunity built up. 







P.S. My kitty is exposed to Raw, Home cooked and both wet + dry foods.
I usually mix 2-3 brands of dry kibble daily for her, different brands of wet foods and then throw in either homecooked or raw for her snacks.  She is a very happy & healthy kitty at 6 months old right now with some awesome fur to boot.

~Just my own 2 cents.


----------



## lolitakali

Takes 3 good/great brands:





To make 1 bowl of kittychow:





So if 1 brand is on recall & I am not aware and served it to kitty, kitty can choose not to eat it or if she does... the exposure to harm will be cut down by 60% plus (still have 2 more other brands in her diet).

One just never knows unless we are the brands' maker ourselves (read enough recall & "foods" / FDA horror stories), thus this method will be "safer" for my kitty.


----------



## Lush Life

Has anyone here tried Blue (Buffalo) cat food, either wet or dry? TIA!


----------



## laureenthemean

I have heard good things about Trader Joe's brand cat food (I personally don't own a cat, though).  Prices are reasonable as well.


----------



## mothbeast

lush life - I haven't used it but a local chain has discontinued it due to lack of info after a recall http://www.petfoodexpress.com/petfood/default.asp?pageid=99&Section=About

I'm looking into a possible change of food for my furballs. They've had diarrhea since we adopted them before Christmas and finally an all chicken diet has stopped it. They had an were treated for coccidia and it could of course be all the stress of moving to a new home. We're going to see if they tolerate their old food which was science diet dry but are investigating other options. I'm hoping to avoid prescription foods for a bit. My recently deceased cat was on them for 15 years and it would be nice to be able to feed them regular food. 

Has anyone tried the costco kirkland brand food?


----------



## lolitakali

Lush Life said:


> Has anyone here tried Blue (Buffalo) cat food, either wet or dry? TIA!



I do use Blue Buffalo wet occasionally but my baby will almost always not finish them; hence quite a waste of money for me.... too much veggies in them I think and my baby is used to eating mainly meat (canned, home-cooked or raw except dry of course).


----------



## aliinnc

One of our cats was quite overweight, but the other was too skinny which made it hard to put the heavy one on a diet. Then my daughter found the info about cats being obligate carnivores, so we switched to canned food only. The pounds dropped off the fat one! It was amazing!


----------



## wetbandit42

wigglytuff said:


> I read threw most of this thread and some of it worries me.
> 
> firstly I dont think any website should be the finally word on what you feed your pet:
> 
> YOU MUST TALK TO YOUR VET FIRST and at every visit.  i asked my vets (i see two, each cat gets one visit a year with each vet) and they both said that they feed their cats purina cat chow. which is on the list of "bad" foods.  they both said they rotate between wet and dry food.
> 
> i feed my cats purina one dry, and purina proplan wet.  thats what i feed them so thats the food i know the most about.  i still dont know why its on the list of "bad" foods:
> 
> 1- they have never had a cat food recall, and of all the dog food brands only alpo which was purchased from another company has had a recall.
> 2- they are among the very few  pet food makers who control the production of their product at every single step outsourcing nothing.
> 3- the first ingredient in the foods i select is meat or fish, not a by product, although they DO sell products with a by product as the first ingredient.
> 4- my cats are VERY active, healthy, fit without being overweight and have shiny healthy coats.
> 5- they get a mix of wet and dry food just like the vets say they should and they fine!
> 
> iams is on the list of "good" foods and they have been recalled many a times.
> 
> also consumer reports advises not to spend on untested expensive brands
> http://pressroom.consumerreports.or...s-pricey-pet-food-not-necessarily-better.html



I'm surprised your vets feed their cats Purina Cat Chow considering that most of the ingredients are junk. 

This is just an example of the ingredients in one of their formulas:
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Poultry by-product  meal, ground yellow corn, wheat flour, corn gluten meal, soybean meal,  brewers rice, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of  vitamin E), fish meal, brewers dried yeast, animal digest, phosphoric  acid, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, tetra sodium pyrophosphate,  calcium chloride, choline chloride, dicalcium phosphate, salt, taurine,  zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3),  L-Alanine, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate,  manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine  hydrochloride, copper sulfate, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite  complex (source of vitamin K activity), calcium iodate.     

[/FONT]I don't see even one source of named meat besides fish meal, which is too far down to even count much towards the protein content. And poultry-by-product meal  - what is that? Granted, this next quote is from wiki, but still... "*Poultry by-product meal* is a high-protein commodity used as a major component in some pet foods. It is made from grinding clean, rendered parts of poultry carcasses and can contain bones, offal and undeveloped eggs, but only contains feathers that are unavoidable in the processing of the poultry parts.[1] Poultry by-product meal quality and composition can change from one batch to another."

My vet told me to feed my dog Purina Pro Plan when I first got her. I did, until I looked at the ingredients, did some research, and realized I was feeding her absolute garbage.


----------



## wetbandit42

oscarcat729 said:


> We're feeding our kitties Science Diet Kitty dry and wet foods. What's wrong with it? (It was on the not recommended dry food list)



I don't have a cat, but I know that Science Diet dog food is junk. It's mostly made of cheap filler ingredients like corn. I would not recommend feeding Science Diet to cats or dogs. 

SD cat food looks like it really skimps on the meat in its foods, and considering cats are carnivores, I would recommend looking into foods that have higher meat contents. Their food seems to be comprised of a lot of cheap fillers.


----------



## bunnymasseuse

wetbandit42 said:


> I don't have a cat, but I know that Science Diet dog food is junk. It's mostly made of cheap filler ingredients like corn. I would not recommend feeding Science Diet to cats or dogs.
> 
> SD cat food looks like it really skimps on the meat in its foods, and considering cats are carnivores, I would recommend looking into foods that have higher meat contents. Their food seems to be comprised of a lot of cheap fillers.


We got off it too, were doing the D/D and A/D? ones but have since gone to grain-free.

I mix between Before Grains, Lotus, Orijen, Taste of the Wild, Now!(cats thew up on that one, given to parents cat) and anything else that their stomach tolerates.  Quite a few good brands of cat food offered by them as well.  We've had to cut down their input because they've put on a bit of weight recently, but they'll manage!


----------



## wetbandit42

bunnymasseuse said:


> We got off it too, were doing the D/D and A/D? ones but have since gone to grain-free.
> 
> I mix between Before Grains, Lotus, Orijen, Taste of the Wild, Now!(cats thew up on that one, given to parents cat) and anything else that their stomach tolerates.  Quite a few good brands of cat food offered by them as well.  We've had to cut down their input because they've put on a bit of weight recently, but they'll manage!



Glad to hear you switched! Science Diet is so overpriced for the cheap ingredients they use, and everyone thinks it's great (I used to too!) because they sell it in the vet's office.


----------



## bunnymasseuse

wetbandit42 said:


> Glad to hear you switched! Science Diet is so overpriced for the cheap ingredients they use, and everyone thinks it's great (I used to too!) because they sell it in the vet's office.


Yep, changed last year around the time my female was getting sick (and eventually passed away) I made the decision to be more conscious about what they put in to their bodies like I do about my own health.  I've become a lot more refreshed on stores that supply the food and treats that are more aligned with their diet and at least with tons of stores I have plenty of variety to choose from.


----------



## lolitakali

bunnymasseuse said:


> We got off it too, were doing the D/D and A/D? ones but have since gone to grain-free.
> 
> I mix between Before Grains, Lotus, Orijen, Taste of the Wild, Now!(cats thew up on that one, given to parents cat) and anything else that their stomach tolerates.  Quite a few good brands of cat food offered by them as well.  We've had to cut down their input because they've put on a bit of weight recently, but they'll manage!



Wow! 
Some great brands you've got there... your kitty(s) are so well loved!!!!

I love the "Taste of the wild" for my gal quite a bit. 
I am also trying out Avoderm (she really dig that one), Wellness (found many left overs) to add to what I've have bought so far.

And our kitties probably have a bigger food budget than their mommies... lol!


----------



## bunnymasseuse

lolitakali said:


> Wow!
> Some great brands you've got there... your kitty(s) are so well loved!!!!
> 
> I love the "Taste of the wild" for my gal quite a bit.
> I am also trying out Avoderm (she really dig that one), Wellness (found many left overs) to add to what I've have bought so far.
> 
> And our kitties probably have a bigger food budget than their mommies... lol!


Heh, thanks 

Lotus has been the best choice recently, but they've had BG and TOTW/Orijen before.  For wet food we've been doing FROMM, Tiki Cat and Werva but that's only been a recent addition in the last few months.  We only give the wet randomly.  We've seen less throwing up and less hairballs, we are very happy.  We'd rather pay more $$ to keep them healthy, after all if we spoil ourselves we should not fail to do the same for our cats.


----------



## Nolia

I am an advocate of pure raw feeding for both dogs and cats.  My babies will NEVER be feed dry or wet.


----------



## lolitakali

bunnymasseuse said:


> Heh, thanks
> 
> _*We'd rather pay more $$ to keep them healthy, after all if we spoil ourselves we should not fail to do the same for our cats.*_



Oh yeah!
ITA!


----------



## lolitakali

Nolia said:


> I am an advocate of pure raw feeding for both dogs and cats.  My babies will NEVER be feed dry or wet.



Raw is awesome!
Your kitty will have beautiful healthy teeth that way.

Pepper eat a weekly raw as well, usually a defrosted feeder mice whole (cat's natural food) for her natural taurine source and to strengthen her teeth.

I will also prepare either cooked or raw steak (our family are big steak eaters) bites for her as well (for that gal sure loves her beef). Deer steaks too. 

But I can never get Pepper to eat any raw / cooked fish (this gal absolutely hates fishy smell). Even with fish, one have to be careful of parasites.

I don't feed her raw ground beef, chicken and definitely no raw pork due to parasite / bacteria content potential.

I do see the advantages in feeding raw (researched about it when I first got Pepper) but am an advocate in "varied" diets of a cat (small varied meals). Knowing our pets can still be affected by some bacteria (staph, salmonella etc.), I rather have that varied plate where she can choose what she eats than be stuck with one choice or go hungry...

I rather her own smell & taste be the judge if some food isn't right for that batch / day.


----------



## Nolia

lolitakali said:


> Raw is awesome!
> Your kitty will have beautiful healthy teeth that way.
> 
> Pepper eat a weekly raw as well, usually a defrosted feeder mice whole (cat's natural food) for her natural taurine source and to strengthen her teeth.
> 
> I will also prepare either cooked or raw steak (our family are big steak eaters) bites for her as well (for that gal sure loves her beef). Deer steaks too.
> 
> But I can never get Pepper to eat any raw / cooked fish (this gal absolutely hates fishy smell). Even with fish, one have to be careful of parasites.
> 
> I don't feed her raw ground beef, chicken and definitely no raw pork due to parasite / bacteria content potential.
> 
> I do see the advantages in feeding raw (researched about it when I first got Pepper) but am an advocate in "varied" diets of a cat (small varied meals). Knowing our pets can still be affected by some bacteria (staph, salmonella etc.), I rather have that varied plate where she can choose what she eats than be stuck with one choice or go hungry...
> 
> I rather her own smell & taste be the judge if some food isn't right for that batch / day.



I would love to feed them live mice (which is ideal), for now I'm using the Frankenprey model.  My cats don't like fish either.  They much prefer pork or beef~ Pork is generally safe, there is a lot of myths around it but bottom line a carnivore's digestive track is a lot shorter than a humans.  That means they are used to scavenging or eating old food and any bacteria would not have the time to be absorbed into their system.  Pork is fine. =) 

I also do not feed ground, there is no point.  They can get plenty of calcium and clean teeth through gnawing at small bones and meaty bones.


----------



## lolitakali

Nolia said:


> I would love to feed them live mice (which is ideal), for now I'm using the Frankenprey model.  My cats don't like fish either.  They much prefer pork or beef~ Pork is generally safe, there is a lot of myths around it but bottom line a carnivore's digestive track is a lot shorter than a humans.  That means they are used to scavenging or eating old food and any bacteria would not have the time to be absorbed into their system.  Pork is fine. =)
> 
> I also do not feed ground, there is no point.  They can get plenty of calcium and clean teeth through gnawing at small bones and meaty bones.



Since Pepper is a working cat, she is a mouser and will chase and eat her own catch especially field mice from the farm she visits. 

She loves mice since when a kitten, but I can't see myself buying live mice just for her food (too cruel if I did that) and yet wanting to dote on her, hence the frozen mice... she eats them no problem when warmed to room temperature. 

I also notice that better than any other meats, Pepper's poopies are the best formed after a whole mice meal. <-- gross I know, lol.


----------



## Nolia

lolitakali said:


> Since Pepper is a working cat, she is a mouser and will chase and eat her own catch especially field mice from the farm she visits.
> 
> She loves mice since when a kitten, but I can't see myself buying live mice just for her food (too cruel if I did that) and yet wanting to dote on her, hence the frozen mice... she eats them no problem when warmed to room temperature.
> 
> I also notice that better than any other meats, Pepper's poopies are the best formed after a whole mice meal. <-- gross I know, lol.



I wrote an entire article about raw feeding but I was hesitant to post it here because I know how resistant people are to new things.  The poop is the best part!! LOL


----------



## lolitakali

Nolia said:


> I wrote an entire article about raw feeding but I was hesitant to post it here because I know how resistant people are to new things.  The poop is the best part!! LOL



Definitely post it!
Great ideas are to be shared, not hidden.
And how other's choose to feed their cats / pets is their own choice anyways and you are just providing them with more options.

Besides, it is about cat food too and relates to the theme.

P.S. makes me remember an article about a cat called Raja who is on all raw and very nice white teeth... no bad breathe either.


----------



## Lush Life

Nolia said:


> I wrote an entire article about raw feeding but I was hesitant to post it here because I know how resistant people are to new things. The poop is the best part!! LOL


 
I would second the request to post your article, Nolia (if it would not offend anyone). I am trying to convince DH to allow me to try this with our finicky two, but he really needs convincing.


----------



## Nolia

Lush Life said:


> I would second the request to post your article, Nolia (if it would not offend anyone). I am trying to convince DH to allow me to try this with our finicky two, but he really needs convincing.



Alrighty, will post it then!!  I have two cats:
*Pico *(a 9 year old female calico)
*Harley *(a 3 year old brown tabby)

*ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ALSO APPLIES TO DOGS AS WELL~*
In fact, the raw feeding movement started with dog owners!
You will find that often breeders of purebreds are fed raw if you ask.  Most do not disclose because of The Looks.  See second post.

======================================================

*THE BEGINNING:*

Two years ago, I've never heard of raw fed dogs or cats. I simply assumed that they ate kibble. I decided to so some reading on the subject of raw feeding and came across several articles.  I was able to read critically and sort through these articles and their choice words, biases and an obvious appeal to emotions (that does the movement a large disservice). If you're able to ignore the guilt tripping, you will see that the message is still valid and strong.

I began to wonder what went into my cats' food? Pico was morbidly obese and Harley was a sickly kitten. Let me say now that a fat cat is not a happy cat, or a spoiled cat. If your cat is naturally "big boned" that's a different story, but if your cat is simply overweight, you NEED to trim it back.

*What goes into dog/cat food kibble*:
In short, it's the parts of a dead animal that doesn't make it into packaged meat fit for human consumption.  This means that rotting meat, feet/hooves, head, sometimes undischarged packaging, some diseased meat all get put into a pressurizer. They heat it up so much it KILLS the bacteria, but at the same time, it kills any nutrients in the meat as well.  The machines dry up any moisture so that the kibble becomes this nugget or dried crap, literally. To market it, they throw in some "nutrients" or "vitamins" and flavour.  Liken this to fast food for us humans.  It tastes really good, makes you keep going back for more, but there is really NO nutritional value and in fact, the additives make your cat really THIRSTY.  They eat then drink then BLOAT. -- There are studies in the works but no results yet, some theorize that many dogs/cats illness near the end of their lives are a result of feeding dry food and that it is NOT natural to pass that way.  

Bottom line... why does cat poo STINK!?  Because their really isn't any nutrients in the food to be absorbed so it all get ejected out of the system.

After my research, I knew I wanted better for my babies.  I needed to make the switch to raw.  I started by immediately changing them over to wet food.  However, wet food is still not the solution.  There is no "hardness" in wet food so your cat is unable to maintain healthy teeth and strong jaws.  There is nothing to "crunch" of gnaw on.  It's like giving them baby food all the time.  

Switching was easy, I gave my cat's meal times. Once in the morning, and once at night. It seemed to make sense to me, as humans, being healthy consists of several SMALL meals a day rather than an open 24 hour buffet of processed food. 

I spent hours each night reading on raw feeding. But ultimately, I decided to consult my own vet. I wanted opinions where I could get them so that I could come to my own conclusions. However, as I would find out and most of the raw community warned me against was that most vets DO NOT condone raw feeding.  Generally there are three reasons for this: 1) they are conditioned to think that raw food contains bacteria like salmonella that would harm your animal.  2) "nutrition" only made up a small part of their education. 3) vet schools are sponsored by the commercial pet food industry so their education only teaches them to recommend/sell these kinds of foods.

The raw feeding community knows only a handful of vets who support the cause.  Thus I concluded that I trust my vet to diagnose my kitties, treat them, and give them the medical care that I cannot provide *but *I have  come to accept that vets are human and that diet is not a main component in their curriculum. So if my kitty needs medical attention, I will seek a vet, but not for nutritional advice.  

A balanced partnership between medicine and a natural lifestyle is what I concluded would be the best for my cats.

*If you want to switch, you MUST be prepared to be patient, persistent and be able to put up with nay-sayers.*

======================================================

*MY LEARNING/EXPERIENCE JOURNEY:*

Eating healthy, just like for humans, is an important part of living a more fulfilling life. It isn't just about exercise and playing with your kitty, it's about what you feed them. To first address the fear of bacteria or salmonella in raw feeding, you have to remember the BIOLOGICAL differences between cats and humans. *Cats (and dogs) are CARNIVORES. * That means they ONLY NEED TO EAT MEAT.  Contrary to the ridiculous ads you see on TV, Fido and Fluffly DO NOT needs veggies of any kind in their diet.  They will get those nutrients from the "prey" they eat.  A carnivore's digestive tract is also a LOT SHORTER than a human's, this means that they can eat raw meat and even old meat without much fear of getting sick.  It takes a less time for the food to travel through their system, hence not having enough time to absorb the bacteria into their bodies.  Logically, think about it, lions and leopard in the wild hunt and eat off the ground, some even scavenge.  Why?  Because they are naturally equipped to handle it.  Human's cannot, we are omnivores.  

The nutrients found in raw food can help build a stronger immune system, in addition, cats will get natural moisture from the meat!!  You will noticed after switching to raw that your cats will consume LESS water.  Why?  This simply means they are getting it directly from their food like they are supposed to! 

In time, you should be able to feed your cats meaty bones (meat with small bones, nothing larger than a chicken thigh). The bones contribute calcium which aids in the development of bones and teeth.  While your kitties are gnawing the meat off the bones, they get nutrients from bone marrow, blood and not to mention it keeps their teeth clean as well!  Cats will also be strengthening their jaws this way.  This is why it is important to avoid feeding wet food or GROUND MEAT. Grinding meat introduces air into the meat with destroys many valuable nutrients in the meat.  Unless you're feeding an old cat with no teeth, your babies should be more than capable of eating meaty bones (yes, even kittens!!)

Again I say, Pico was fat (everyone commented on her weight when they visited me) and lazy. Harley when we rescued him from the shelter was sickly and threw up all the time after eating. I wanted to test out raw feeding to see how it went. If anything, I could always switch back, right?

After beginning the transition between wet food to *raw *(about a week into), I noticed HUUUUUUUUGE changes almost immediately.
Pico had more energy, she began to play like a kitten again. There was a renewed interest in her toys. Her coat was noticeably softer and she was beginning to be much more affectionate. 
Harley gained more strength, he was still throwing up but not daily anymore.
BUT the BIGGEST CHANGE what their POO.


----------



## Nolia

*ADVANTAGE #1: That's right. The POO.*

The poo factor alone was enough to convince me to switch permanently lol.
Their stuff didn't smell at all!! (unless you put your face right up to it). Everything was a lighter color, and there was generally a LOT less of it. Scooping poop is like a dream now hahah.

Transitioning was *slow* (this is where patients kicks in), I encountered many problems because my cats took differently to the switch.

This brings me to DISAVANTAGE #1: Time. The process is not immediate. You will need to commit some energy and time (and patience) to go to a raw diet. Sometimes your cats will not like what you give it, so you'll have to give them dry food once or twice so they won't starve. (It's like quitting any addiction, you have to come off it slowly). You need to start small. [[There are links at the end of this article for resources on switching to raw]]. At first Pico was making faster progress than Harley, she is then she was stuck eating chunks and hasn't touched bone-in meats. It was quite possible that she did not yet have the jaw strength to eat the bones (after all, she did spend 7 years on dry kibble!). I started transitioning in October 2009, as of April 2, 2010 (six months), Harley is fully on raw. Pico was on raw/wet diet. My cats are SLOW, so please don't be that intimidated, transitions don't usually take this long. I've heard cats switching right away, the longest switch I've read took 1 year.

After several weeks, Pico had lost some of her fat, and became fitter. From her new found energy, I noticed that she had been playing more and exercising more often. I began to give Harley bone-in meats.
This stopped his vomiting completely because he was forced to tear and chew his food before swallowing. Before, he would GORGE on dry, get thirsty, drink water and the food expanded and he would throw it up.

*ADVANTAGE #2 and #3: HEALTH and ENERGY: Cats got noticeably stronger/fitter, more energetic.*

I introduced Salmon oil into their diet. Salmon oil is still being debated on whether or not it is beneficial for cats. I decided to try it. Harley LOVES it. 
But...
It caused Pico to regress. She hated the salmon oil and absolutely REFUSED raw food. I ended up going ALL THE WAY back to dry food so she wouldn't starve herself. (This is where persistence comes in) After about a week, she was back on a relatively raw/wet diet. But I began to worry because her food intake was cut in half. She wasn't eating as much as she used to. Pico used to eat about 1.5 cups a day of dry food.

I panicked. Desperately messaging my vet, reading articles, consulting other cat lovers.
Finally, when I took her to get microchipped at a shelter, the workers told me that they fed their cats *only half a cup a day!!*
I was relieved. The salmon oil turned her off, but in the end, *because of her new raw diet, her food intake decreased to a NORMAL level*.
What I learned?  The easy way to "measure" how much to feed your cat is just to think LIKE a cat.  If they were in the wild, they hunt.  Maybe kill one or two mice a day.  That is how much I would give my cats on a daily basis.  What I call, a "mouse-ful".

*ADVANTAGE #4: Eating smaller portions (fed twice a day), less thirst for water intake.*

Now, to get her back on track to transition, I was buying a variety of meats to help entice her to eat.
*That leads to DISADVANTAGE #2: Cost.* In the beginning when you are experimenting, raw food is going to be expensive because you don't know what your kitty will like. Also overall, dry food is about $5 a bag which can last up to a month. Raw is not THAT much more expensive, but you'll have to budget it. Purchase in bulk, what is on sale, and ask family/friends for expired (but not rotten) frozen meats. Freeze your food for about a week to kill any bacteria. You'll get into a habit of it eventually and it will become easier.

*DISADVANTAGE #3: Beginner Prep:* When to feed and how much. Now, a LOT of cat enthusiasts go absolutely nuts and measure out the exact OUNCES of what to feed. Some break things down into percentages of meat, muscle meat, organs and bones. But for me, I think just feed a GENERAL VARIETY of raw is fine. Like humans, I don't like to be so anal about counting calories, looking at the % of fats in my food or sugar. COMMON SENSE: just make healthy choices.

An easy way to solve this problem, is to think about a cat's natural prey. A mouse. When you feed, estimate a large mouse sized amount. Guesstimate the amount of organs/bones. *Not every cat in the wild is going to find a perfectly balanced meal every time.* If you want to get exact about the numbers, more power to you, but I don't think it's necessary.

*I follow as a general guide (per month):
80% meat (pork, chicken, beef, rabbit, lamb, venison etc.  Meat also includes HEARTS with are ESSENTIAL for taurine!!)
10% meaty bones (like quail, chicken wings)
10% organs (half of this is liver)

Optional additions: Salmon Oil, raw eggs. 
Treats: PureBites Liver Treats (I ONLY buy treats with ONE ingredient)*

*ADVANTAGE #4: Personality/physical changes*. Honestly, if I just tell you, it won't have any meaning. You have to SEE the little changes along the way in your cat/dog. Pico is more of a lap cat now, wanting to be cuddled and played with.  In all of 7 years, I have never seen her his affectionate!! Harley is strong and no longer vomiting, his teeth are pristine from gnawing on bones. Before raw, I thought all cats were lazy bums, the change was so noticeable!!

In the end, YOU need to look at these pros/cons and decide if its worth it to switch. For me, I felt that my kitties are worth it. I want them to life long, happy, exciting and healthy lives. It costs me a little more time/energy/convenience/money, but I love seeing the progress and the changes. Ultimately it is your choice whether or not the disadvantages outweigh the advantages (or vice verse) for you.

*DISADVANTAGE #4: The Looks.* You know, people think you're nuts when you says your cat is on a raw diet. It's just a cat. This disadvantage is the hardest I think. Facing the enormous amount of opposition and skepticism. It's just something you have to decide if you want to deal with. You have to have some balls and backbone to get past the Looks.

A few people have asked me why I haven't tried to convince my own vet or switch vets? I think that people will learn what they want to learn and in time, perhaps every vet will consider natural/holistic approaches in partnership with science and medicine. My vet is great for when my kitties are sick, I really like him so for now I see no need to switch, but I want to make sure I'm doing my part to prevent illnesses in the future at home too. ^__^

I always have to stop myself from preaching to people about raw feeding though I am an extremely passionate advocate of it.  If you have any questions I will try to answer it to the best of my ability!!  

As of today, BOTH Pico and Harley are fully on raw!!  
Before and After: Teeth
Before and After: Weight Loss (A healthy cat has a natural waist, you should'nt be able to SEE ribs, but if you touch, you should be able to find them easily).
Here is a video of my cat Harley eating a bone in meat. 

*What Carnivores Need
Protein and Fats - From meats (including the fats)
Small amounts of Fiber - found in fur, feathers or viscera (I feed my cats liver)
Taurine - Found in hearts (I feed mine chicken hearts)
Calcium - For bones and teeth (I feed my cats bone-in meats)
Iron - From bone marrow, liver, and blood (my cats love the blood)
Omega 3 - For shiny coats, stronger joints and immune system support. (I will occasional give them some Alaskan Salmon Oil in their food, Omegas can also be found in raw egg.)

DO NOT cook the meat or bones! It destroys essential nutrients and cooked bone can harm your kitty. 
DO NOT feed pasteurized milk.  Most cats are lactose intolerant.  If you give milk, ensure that it is raw.*

It really IS as simple as dropping a slab of meat into their plate once your cat has transitioned.

*Do the research, ask the questions, decide if the raw diet will work for you. *

======================================================

RESOURCES:
* Please remember, a lot of information is written with bias and it does the movement a disservice.  PLEASE sort through the emotional garbage and retain the facts. THINK CRITICALLY!

*Great Intro (watch for guilt trips!), for info on Raw Fed Dogs, google!!
Awesome site for info on transitioning your kitty.
http://www.rawfedcats.org/*

Feline Nutrition Education
http://fnes.org/
- The Benefits of a Raw Diet for Your Cat article: 
http://fnes.org/raw-feeding/the-benefits-of-a-raw-diet-for-your-cat
- Spooked By Salmonella article: 
http://fnes.org/raw-feeding/spooked-by-salmonella-raw-food

Feeding Methodologies (I follow Frankenprey model. Eventually will get to Whole Prey)
http://www.catforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=57301

Basics of Feline Nutrition
http://www.catinfo.org/

Carnivora Cats
http://www.carnivora.ca/html/cats/index.cfm


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## lolitakali

^^^ Great post!
Thanks for sharing!


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## gwendolen

Wow! Amazing post! I'm going to do some research on this. I feel like my cat isn't getting the best nutrition and have been looking for something better to feed her. I never really thought much about raw feeding. I have the feeling she'd love it though!


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## wigglytuff

wetbandit42 said:


> I'm surprised your vets feed their cats Purina Cat Chow considering that most of the ingredients are junk.
> 
> This is just an example of the ingredients in one of their formulas:
> [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Poultry by-product  meal, ground yellow corn, wheat flour, corn gluten meal, soybean meal,  brewers rice, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of  vitamin E), fish meal, brewers dried yeast, animal digest, phosphoric  acid, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, tetra sodium pyrophosphate,  calcium chloride, choline chloride, dicalcium phosphate, salt, taurine,  zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3),  L-Alanine, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate,  manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine  hydrochloride, copper sulfate, citric acid, menadione sodium bisulfite  complex (source of vitamin K activity), calcium iodate.
> 
> [/FONT]I don't see even one source of named meat besides fish meal, which is too far down to even count much towards the protein content. And poultry-by-product meal  - what is that? Granted, this next quote is from wiki, but still... "*Poultry by-product meal* is a high-protein commodity used as a major component in some pet foods. It is made from grinding clean, rendered parts of poultry carcasses and can contain bones, offal and undeveloped eggs, but only contains feathers that are unavoidable in the processing of the poultry parts.[1] Poultry by-product meal quality and composition can change from one batch to another."
> 
> My vet told me to feed my dog Purina Pro Plan when I first got her. I did, until I looked at the ingredients, did some research, and realized I was feeding her absolute garbage.



There is a lot of SNAKE OIL in this thread.  Wild cats eat all parts of the animals they kill, including the parts that gave been called junk.

Not to long ago one of these hippie new age (and completely untested) brands faced a recall, I think it was wellness.  

Purina cat food has never been recalled.  It has been tested and retested.  Some people don't like the sound of the food, but the truth is that sadly speaking the foods like purina is better than what some human beings live on.  So I think some sense of relativity is important.

The other thing is that recent as a man is going around saying that the world is ending, some people are making big money by selling a product that if the world does end they will care for your cat or dog for the low pre paid price of $230 some of these foods are that $230.  

Finally, and most importantly there is no independent science to back the notion that cats that eat only these new age foods live any longer than cats that eat established high quality brands like purina.  There IS a lot of snake oil "science".

It's not that I am opposed to these new age brands, it's that I reject the unfounded and silly notion that unless you spend this insane amount of money on untested, unproven foods, you are doing some unproven harm to your cat.

It reminds me of the baby genius market, when all science points to this stuff being useless. Loving your child and spending time with them does a lot more for them than these products.  A cat that has an active, enriched life with lots to do and lots of options is going to be a lot healthier and happier than a cat who eats raw meat and is locked in a closet.  I say get a nice mid range brand and spend the rest on enrichment.

My cats eat purina cat wet food, purina pro plan wet food and purina one dry food.  They are as active and happy as they were when they were kittens, and they are 2 years old. They have an enriched and full life and are expertly loved.  Even if they eat junk


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## wetbandit42

wigglytuff said:


> There is a lot of SNAKE OIL in this thread.  Wild cats eat all parts of the animals they kill, including the parts that gave been called junk.
> 
> Not to long ago one of these hippie new age (and completely untested) brands faced a recall, I think it was wellness.
> 
> Purina cat food has never been recalled.  It has been tested and retested.  Some people don't like the sound of the food, but the truth is that sadly speaking the foods like purina is better than what some human beings live on.  So I think some sense of relativity is important.
> 
> _*Yes, but cats are not people. Who cares if this food may be better than what some humans are eating? Also, Purina dog food has been recalled - that alone is reason enough for me to not trust Nestle.*_
> 
> The other thing is that recent as a man is going around saying that the world is ending, some people are making big money by selling a product that if the world does end they will care for your cat or dog for the low pre paid price of $230 some of these foods are that $230.
> 
> _*What?!??*_
> 
> Finally, and most importantly there is no independent science to back the notion that cats that eat only these new age foods live any longer than cats that eat established high quality brands like purina.  There IS a lot of snake oil "science".
> 
> It's not that I am opposed to these new age brands, it's that I reject the unfounded and silly notion that unless you spend this insane amount of money on untested, unproven foods, you are doing some unproven harm to your cat.
> 
> _*You don't have to spend an insane amount of money, but you can spend a few dollars more and get something that has better ingredients than Purina.*_
> 
> It reminds me of the baby genius market, when all science points to this stuff being useless. Loving your child and spending time with them does a lot more for them than these products.  A cat that has an active, enriched life with lots to do and lots of options is going to be a lot healthier and happier than a cat who eats raw meat and is locked in a closet.  I say get a nice mid range brand and spend the rest on enrichment.
> 
> My cats eat purina cat wet food, purina pro plan wet food and purina one dry food.  They are as active and happy as they were when they were kittens, and they are 2 years old. They have an enriched and full life and are expertly loved.  Even if they eat junk



First, last time I checked, cats are CARNIVORES. Carnivores don't go around eating corn. Have you ever seen a cat dining on a field of corn? I think not. 

Second - the big companies that own brands like Purina and Iams are conglomerates. I'd much rather buy my animal's food from a brand that is devoted to making only pet food (like Champion Pet Foods).

Third - where do you think Purina (& other junk brands) get their ingredients from? Purina sources many of the ingredients in their dog food from China, so I have every reason to believe they do the same with their cat food. I will never, ever feed my dog anything that comes from China.

You can feed your pets whatever you like. Just know that feeding animals Purina, Iams, Science Diet, etc. is like feeding your children junk food every day.


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## mothbeast

Nolia - interesting article. I might try adding some of the raw food mix my local pet store carries to my cats diet.


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## PooPurse

We switched our kitty over to Natural Balance Green Pea and Duck cat food about six months ago.  It's protein based, no corn filler stuff.  It costs a little more but she eats less of it because it fills her up faster and the bag lasts longer, so the price works itself out.  Plus, she's lost weight and acts like she's a lot less sluggish!


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## Nolia

Thank you~
I will never feed anything but raw.  Even if I got a pet dog, I would only do raw.  
It has only done good things for my babies and the proof is in the poo!


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## lucywife

From the petfooddirect.com recent e-mail:


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## Greta_V

I don't know if this was mentioned here before, but I just wanted to add, that one of the best and respectable dry foods is Orijen. Just to throw it out there)))


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## qlove823

Also - my cat loves Nutro max cat indoor chicken flavor. He was on science diet for a while, but he loves the bigger pieces in nutro. and they're fish shaped


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## wekilledcouture

My cat is a very fussy half oriental rescue cat. we feed her science diet wet food and royal canin dry because she is a grazer and likes a couple crackers here and there. 
Have never had a problem with her not eating it and her coat is the softest most shiny thing I've ever seen. 
The thing I love most about science diet is the fact that it's real meat with vitamins. Not full of meat by product and chemicals like most. 
She was the runt and although she's still small. this diet has helped her so much! 


-------------------------------- 

Chanel & Hermes addict &#128184;
Insta: @wekilledcouture 
Sent from my iPhone using PurseForum


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## wekilledcouture

wetbandit42 said:


> First, last time I checked, cats are CARNIVORES. Carnivores don't go around eating corn. Have you ever seen a cat dining on a field of corn? I think not.
> 
> Second - the big companies that own brands like Purina and Iams are conglomerates. I'd much rather buy my animal's food from a brand that is devoted to making only pet food (like Champion Pet Foods).
> 
> Third - where do you think Purina (& other junk brands) get their ingredients from? Purina sources many of the ingredients in their dog food from China, so I have every reason to believe they do the same with their cat food. I will never, ever feed my dog anything that comes from China.
> 
> You can feed your pets whatever you like. Just know that feeding animals Purina, Iams, Science Diet, etc. is like feeding your children junk food every day.




I would not put science diet in the same category as that rubbish. My vet stocks iams and wiskas (both about the equivilant to feeding your cats Mcdonalds everyday) but recommends science diet or royal canin (he gets no money from it but wants his furry clients to have the happiest healthy lives) 


-------------------------------- 

Chanel & Hermes addict &#128184;
Insta: @wekilledcouture 
Sent from my iPhone using PurseForum


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## Peridot_Paradise

my cat loves wet food which i usually buy from Walmart (the typical usual brands) and she started peeing blood. The vet did an urine analyses and said that there were too many minerals in her urine.. after many speculation of what could be the problem i stopped giving her cheap wet food from walmart and replaced with Wellness can wet food from Petco and she stopped peeing blood ever since


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## sdkitty

bunnymasseuse said:


> We got off it too, were doing the D/D and A/D? ones but have since gone to grain-free.
> 
> I mix between Before Grains, Lotus, Orijen, Taste of the Wild, Now!(cats thew up on that one, given to parents cat) and anything else that their stomach tolerates.  Quite a few good brands of cat food offered by them as well.  We've had to cut down their input because they've put on a bit of weight recently, but they'll manage!


I've been feeding my cats grain free (Taste of the Wild) for years.  I gave them the dry food in the morning and as needed.  Then some quality canned food for dinner.
They never seemed to get bored with the TOTW and I thought it made sense to feed grain free since they are carnivores.
Now my kitties are gone and I'm getting ready to adopt again.  Looking at info and seeing that grain free isn't necessary unless they have allergies.  But no harm in it either.
Anyone have a better recommendation?
I don't want to go with raw diet and don't want to go with all canned food.

(I saw a Newman's Own chicken one that had good ratings on Chewy)


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## Gabs007

*NYC Princess* said:


> I don't know much about Fancy Feast, but the director of the rescue organization told me that it is an average quality food (so it's ok to feed it) but for the price, that there were better alternatives.  She also said it was highly addictive and cats love it, so it's hard to wean cats off it.  But tiramisu, you're absolutely right that you should read the label, which is why I tried to write down some of the pointers I learned.



One problem you get if you feed only wet food is that they tend to build up plague on the teeth, which is really bad for their health, so a high quality dry food which they can snack on between meals (always with water) is really good for them


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## Gabs007

cascratchfever said:


> Thanks for the info!  Do you know about how many ounces a day an adult cat (fairly innactive house cat)?  I'm trying to figure up the cost.



Our cats won't drink if we give them water, however they will sometimes drink from the dog's water bowl, we decided buy them a little "pet fountain" and that seems to do the trick, they are quite eager to drink from that.

I just put the Amazon link up so you can see what I mean, but you can get them in any pet store, eBay, some supermarkets, etc. It was just a try but apparently because the water is moving and it resembles a natural water source, they totally go for it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=founta...724844&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_2bybo07kiz_e


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## emmababy

My cat has been on raw since wean. Ita great, his poop and pee doesnt stink up the


Nolia said:


> Thank you~
> I will never feed anything but raw.  Even if I got a pet dog, I would only do raw.
> It has only done good things for my babies and the proof is in the poo!


Agree. My cat only eats raw too


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