# How to go from 50+ to looking 20+ with plastic surgery rejuvenation.



## MissOrange

I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.

1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!

2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.

3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.

4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.

5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.

Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!


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## loves

Wow you look like you are in your 20s


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## MissOrange

loves said:


> Wow you look like you are in your 20s


Thanks @loves. I owe the transformation to MVP clinic and DAPRS clinic.


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## pinkypuppet37

Thanks Orange for the advice, you still look very youthful. May i ask what procedures have you gone through with DARPS?


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## Gats

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us MissOrange, you look great! I feel like I have a roadmap of what to do in the future. I hope you keep this up, I look forward to seeing you write about how to look 30s in our 70s.


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## pinkypuppet37

Hi Orange i have read through your blog and im happy that you have found the good places here.
May I ask how much did you pay for Facial Fatgrafting at DA?


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## MissOrange

pinkypuppet37 said:


> Hi Orange i have read through your blog and im happy that you have found the good places here.
> May I ask how much did you pay for Facial Fatgrafting at DA?


@pinkypuppet37 I paid DAPRS 2.5 million won for 2 full facial fat grafting and included a 10% tax refund. Be prepared to negotiate with the consultant in person. The price initially started higher! I mentioned the price given to a friend and asked to match this as she had been offered 1.8 million for one or 2.5 million fo two. They agreed. I have since negotiated a third as although the fat grafting has stayed in the forehead and temples (only had it done once there), I think I need a top up again to the malar cheeks and around the mouth to stay permanently six months after my second. DA started at 1.5 million won and I started at 700,000 won for the third. We agreed at 1 million won. I would say know your budget and if the quote is still too high over kakao, meet with Dr Kim in person and then afterwards try your best to get them to work with you so it can be affordable for you. If you are active on social media, this can help with negotiations. I feel foreigners should be paying as close to local prices as possible and finding clinics that do this and have board certified plastic surgeons then becomes a win:win.


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## heylo

Good tips MissOrange. I would also add multiple skin rejuvenation with lasers. This is often overlooked because even if you fill and pull back the skin envelope, the collagen and elastin bonds will still be weaker in an older face and if you don't fix the skin, it will look "off".

But anyway, I have these problems and I am 30, lol.

Can I ask who did your lip lift? I need a revision for this.


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## Amber.fate

Hey there guys.
I was wondering what are the best clinics in your opinion when it comes to a face lift and fat grafting?
I have major saggy skin after I got my jaw and cheekbone shaved and also to weight loss. I'm 26 and I look in my 40's it's that bad <\3


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## heylo

Amber.fate said:


> Hey there guys.
> I was wondering what are the best clinics in your opinion when it comes to a face lift and fat grafting?
> I have major saggy skin after I got my jaw and cheekbone shaved and also to weight loss. I'm 26 and I look in my 40's it's that bad <\3



Don't do fat grafting because if you put it into a reduced bone structure, it will drop.

I had fat grafting with poor bone structure and I need an SMAS lift just from that.

About face lifting, Regen did a blogger (qiuqiu or someone) and she was not yet 30. You could ask them?


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## Amber.fate

heylo said:


> Don't do fat grafting because if you put it into a reduced bone structure, it will drop.
> 
> I had fat grafting with poor bone structure and I need an SMAS lift just from that.
> 
> About face lifting, Regen did a blogger (qiuqiu or someone) and she was not yet 30. You could ask them?


Hello thank you for your respond.
When it comes to poor bones structure, I have done the jaw and cheek shaving three years ago. Will that still effect that fat grafting even though the surgery is rather old? And what is SMAS?.


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## heylo

SMAS is a type of full face lift that's quite common.

About fat - your problem is probably mostly a loose skin envelope - so if you fill up the envelope it will just result in a massive face. It's best to do tightening and then fill in the dark spots with fat or filler later on. If you now don't have a very strong bone structure (due to bone contouring), adding more fat in the face isn't a good long term plan because it will sag. If you have a strong bone structure and add fat, the bone structure can support the fat better.


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## Amber.fate

Thank you I'll read more into it


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## MissOrange

heylo said:


> Good tips MissOrange. I would also add multiple skin rejuvenation with lasers. This is often overlooked because even if you fill and pull back the skin envelope, the collagen and elastin bonds will still be weaker in an older face and if you don't fix the skin, it will look "off".
> 
> But anyway, I have these problems and I am 30, lol.
> 
> Can I ask who did your lip lift? I need a revision for this.


Hi Heylo,

I had my bullhorn lip lift done by Dr Caroline Mills in the UK in January 2017. It cost £2450 including a £250 consultation fee.


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## MissOrange

I went back to Seoul last month for free eyelid fat graft top up with MVP clinic as my eyelids started to hollow a little and top up was included in the original 3 million price back in May 2016. Here is what I look like less than 2 weeks post top up. This time Dr Seo took fat from my tummy through my belly button. The white cream is hydrocortisone 1% which seems to help with my raised bullhorn scar.


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## MissOrange

Please read my update post on the negative experience thread. After my poor treatment at DAPRS for my third face fat graft top up, I can no longer recommend DA. In my professional opinion it is highly unethical for a clinic to try to extort more money from a patient who is fasted, jet lagged and sitting in the clinic in theatre clothes ready for a third fat graft agreed at 1 million by kakao and then for DA manager  Ahn to come in and say we are starting negotiating all over and it costs 5 million but I can give you a 20% discount and you pay 3.8 million won. I was aghast! I fought hard for DAPRS clinic to honour their agreement of 1 million for a third fat graft top up to malar cheeks, nasolabial and marionette lines. She finally agreed and took my 1 million cash with no tax receipt. I was left with an extensively bruised thigh for 2.5 weeks without any compression bandages or tape and uneven thighs, ie now one thigh is larger than the other. The fat grafting from this third fat graft disappeared after 2.5 weeks. I had thought it odd that Dr Kim had asked me if I wanted to go back to theatre on the Monday following the Friday he had performed third fat grafting, for a top up? The DA interpreter Emily had offered to show me CCTV footage to reassure me I had not had a shadow but then refused to show me when I went back to the clinic and said it was illegal to film inside the theatre. Fat grafting can be done in many clinics and my friends have shown me their fat grafting with no extensive thigh bruising as they got taped and their faces were not as swollen, bruised or distorted like mine had been with this third fat graft at DAPRS clinic in sinnonhyeon. I complained to Dr Kim about manager Ahn's unethical behaviour and he had nothing to say and I asked him why he did not bandage my thigh after removing fat for my face. He replied he did not think I would bruise despite me complaining after the first fat graft left me with extensive thigh bruising for weeks. I was also given GA which is overkill for fat grafting.

In contrast the eyelid fat graft top up at MVP clinic in Apgujeong went very well, the fat graft is still there and my belly button donor site healed fast. And in future, MVP has kindly agreed to match the initial DA price of 1 million for face fat grafting.


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## MissOrange

Here is how eyelid fat grafting works to knock decades off your eyes. I had mine at MVP clinic in Apgujeong. 

I watched Miss Korea K drama and Queenie Ma is my age, ie 50+ and her eyelids show ageing with hollow sulci.

Here are photos of Queenie Ma, my eyes before and after eyelid fat graft top up. Now if someone could let the Korean actress know about eyelid fat graft she too can look 20s!


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## MOTTY26

Hi Miss Orange, sorry to hear about your experience with DA,  wow thats really not nice.

With regards to the procedure that u did with MVP,  I was just wondering if this can fix my sagging crepey, hallow eyes.  The only thing that concerns me is that I read online that we need to be careful in FG around the eye area since it might cause blindness.  I dont know if theres any truth in it.   I hope people here with medical experience can further explain this.

I think FB around my eyes is really what I need.

BTW, hope u dont mind me asking have u done any face lift?


U look awesome btw, and OMG u look like your in late 20s.

Cheers!


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## Gats

@MissOrange, I've heard of that before from other clinics where the negotiated price from kakao is ignored when you are there in person. It's very unprofessional for them to try to negotiate with you right before surgery, the price should have been set as soon as the surgery room time was booked.

Regarding your results, at least the bruising will go away. Hopefully your leg size will even out. It's disappointing to hear the fat graft was gone after only 2.5 weeks. That's normally when swelling goes down so perhaps they didn't inject much fat into you? You didn't look overfilled from your pics. Why would he ask you to come in for top up a few days after your fat graft? It sounds like he may have messed up as he knew right after surgery that wasn't enough?

Thanks for the eyelid fat graft tip. I recall hearing fat survival there is harder due to less bloody supply in that area. It's a great change though, I wonder why more women don't do it with fat grafter or filler.


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## Annaleesa

How is your skin so... Flawless?


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## Annaleesa

By the way, you mentioned replacement for artificial parts is on average every 10 years. Does that mean someone young getting rhinoplasty should always get rib, but silicone?


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## Gats

Looks like you have some competition :  https://www.storiesoftheday.net/eL0nDlVD


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## satine502

Blindness can be caused with injecting around the eye due to "retinal artery embolism"= occlusion. Basically clogs the artery that feeds the retina in the eye. Danger zone is the supratrochlear artery that runs down right below the head of the eyebrow. This is why practitioners are cautioned prior to injecting glabellar, nasal bridge and eyelid hollowing.

I've been a plastic surgery injector in the states for 8 years. Be cautious folks


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## summerlux

Annaleesa said:


> By the way, you mentioned replacement for artificial parts is on average every 10 years. Does that mean someone young getting rhinoplasty should always get rib, but silicone?


I was really curious about this as well since I'm planning for silicon implant. I did a search and found this so thought I would leave this here https://www.realself.com/question/replace-silicone-nose-implant-after-years


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## MOTTY26

satine502 said:


> Blindness can be caused with injecting around the eye due to "retinal artery embolism"= occlusion. Basically clogs the artery that feeds the retina in the eye. Danger zone is the supratrochlear artery that runs down right below the head of the eyebrow. This is why practitioners are cautioned prior to injecting glabellar, nasal bridge and eyelid hollowing.
> 
> I've been a plastic surgery injector in the states for 8 years. Be cautious folks



Hi Satine, so if one wants to do Fat Graft all around her eyes, where do Dr needs to inject the fats?  For eg: in the eye lid area, is it in the sides?  Thanks!


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## satine502

You just want them to be really careful doing it. Injecting slow, using proper sized cannula and knowing anatomy are all key factors. When we inject Hyaluronic acid filers we try to aspirate to see if we draw blood to make sure we're not injecting into blood vessels. Sometimes you have to go into danger zones, but there are ways to minimize complications. Even in the best of hands though, things do happen.


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## cute_lil_fiend

This. Aspiration in the main way to avoid injecting intravascularly. This ideally should be done during every injection.



satine502 said:


> When we inject Hyaluronic acid filers we try to aspirate to see if we draw blood to make sure we're not injecting into blood vessels. Sometimes you have to go into danger zones, but there are ways to minimize complications.


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## cute_lil_fiend

Thought about it a bit more and I'm not sure if would be useful for fat grafting, as fat is a higher viscosity opaque liquid/semisolid, any aspirated blood would be impossible to visualize.

According to an article I found re fat grating (http://www.the-dermatologist.com/content/fat-transfer-facial-volume-rejuvenation)
"To prevent intravascular injections, the physician may consider using small 1-cc syringes with low injection pressures for fat transfer, epinephrine in the anesthesia to promote vasoconstriction, blunt-tipped cannulas and withdrawal prior to all injections."



satine502 said:


> When we inject Hyaluronic acid filers we try to aspirate to see if we draw blood to make sure we're not injecting into blood vessels. Sometimes you have to go into danger zones, but there are ways to minimize complications.


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## satine502

exactly. if you look at my previous answer i list all of those things. i never said HA and fat are injected the same way. Fat injections are usually microdroplets so aspirating every single time is impossible

Even with HA if you're on bone sometimes we won't aspirate

BTW....if you aspirate you see it in the HUB of the cannula. You don't look for it in the actual syringe with the fat/HA.


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## cute_lil_fiend

satine502 said:


> exactly. if you look at my previous answer i list all of those things. i never said HA and fat are injected the same way. Fat injections are usually microdroplets so aspirating every single time is impossible
> 
> Even with HA if you're on bone sometimes we won't aspirate
> 
> BTW....if you aspirate you see it in the HUB of the cannula. You don't look for it in the actual syringe with the fat/HA.



Great that we're on the same page. Curious about the cannula too. I didn't know that cannulas were used to inject fat, but I guess we learn something new every day.


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## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Hi Miss Orange, sorry to hear about your experience with DA,  wow thats really not nice.
> 
> With regards to the procedure that u did with MVP,  I was just wondering if this can fix my sagging crepey, hallow eyes.  The only thing that concerns me is that I read online that we need to be careful in FG around the eye area since it might cause blindness.  I dont know if theres any truth in it.   I hope people here with medical experience can further explain this.
> 
> I think FB around my eyes is really what I need.
> 
> BTW, hope u dont mind me asking have u done any face lift?
> 
> 
> U look awesome btw, and OMG u look like your in late 20s.
> 
> Cheers!


Hi Motty26,

Yes fat grafting to lids with revision blepharoplasty would definitely work for you. Revision incision des is basically blepharoplasty where the surgeon excises wrinkly crepe skin and injects fat graft to the lid to fill the hollows with aging. I had no fear of blindness. It is safe. And no, I have not had a facelift. Face fat graft plumps up the face which hides any signs of sagging! Hope this helps.


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## MissOrange

Annaleesa said:


> By the way, you mentioned replacement for artificial parts is on average every 10 years. Does that mean someone young getting rhinoplasty should always get rib, but silicone?


Hi Annaleesa, for skin I drink water, hardly any alcohol and definitely no sugary drinks. I also use VDL Korean brand mild skin peeling gel as a daily facial wash/scrub and innisfree Korean brand green tea seed serum. My foundation is shiseido i20.

In the UK and USA they predominantly use ear or rib cartilage for rhinos. In SK they predominantly use ultra silicone implants for primary rhino and rib as a last resort. I know 2 Asian Americans who flew or are flying to SK as their silicone implant nose has now collapsed or the implant has extruded.


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Looks like you have some competition :  https://www.storiesoftheday.net/eL0nDlVD


She looks amazing. Great body from serious exercise. My exercise is limited to walking only and a 1000 calorie daily diet intake. Lol.


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## Annaleesa

MissOrange said:


> She looks amazing. Great body from serious exercise. My exercise is limited to walking only and a 1000 calorie daily diet intake. Lol.


1000 calories?! How do you live? Do you just eat vegetables? I thought 1200 was the lowest limit.


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## elky81

Wow, looks great! I'm looking into this procedure as a way to avoid yearly filler/botox. Have you looked into any other reputable clinics after your disappointment with DA?


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## MissOrange

elky81 said:


> Wow, looks great! I'm looking into this procedure as a way to avoid yearly filler/botox. Have you looked into any other reputable clinics after your disappointment with DA?


Yes, a friend had full face fat graft at MVP (most valuable plastic) surgery clinic at around the same time I had my third top up at DA and it has lasted. In future I shall go to MVP fo full face fat graft top ups. The eyelid fat graft top up at MVP has also lasted so I should have stuck with MVP for the rest of my face. And she got her thighs bandaged and taped so less bruising to the lower extremities.


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## MissOrange

For those interested in chin shaving, the most innovative technique is the sonopet or ultrasonic knife shaving of bone. Lucian Ion in the UK did my chin shaving this way and it was painless with much less swelling than the old fashioned way of chin osteotomy bone cutting and screws in South Korea. Here is my chin in profile. The cost for the chin was roughly £3000 as the total for rib rhinoplasty and chin reshaping was £10,000.


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## MissOrange

Annaleesa said:


> 1000 calories?! How do you live? Do you just eat vegetables? I thought 1200 was the lowest limit.


Hi Anna, there are many meals in the 200-500 calorie category. Even a cheeseburger and small fries at McDonald's is just 500 calories. A mini chicken cha han at Wagamama is 400 calories. Ramen is under 500 calories. Just a matter of checking the calorie content of meals and making a list of foods 500 calories or less.


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## MOTTY26

MissOrange said:


> For those interested in chin shaving, the most innovative technique is the sonopet or ultrasonic knife shaving of bone. Lucian Ion in the UK did my chin shaving this way and it was painless with much less swelling than the old fashioned way of chin osteotomy bone cutting and screws in South Korea. Here is my chin in profile. The cost for the chin was roughly £3000 as the total for rib rhinoplasty and chin reshaping was £10,000.



I wonder whats the difference using the Ultra sonic knife compare to traditional bone cutting?   I also wonder if that technique can be used in long jaw reduction.


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## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> I wonder whats the difference using the Ultra sonic knife compare to traditional bone cutting?   I also wonder if that technique can be used in long jaw reduction.


Google sonopet or ultrasonic knife. It causes less trauma and can be done through the mouth. I am wondering if it can be used to shave the zygoma! Another technique is endoscopic angular jaw reduction! I watched a YouTube of Dr Kang at Romian use this technique and the girl left same day and was eating! No overnight stay. No weeks of liquid food. The least amount of trauma, the less swelling and post op pain.


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## Linlin18

Hello! You look amazing  I also had eyelid fat graft but the fat on one of my eyes is about 50% gone now (after 1 year).
Is this procedure meant to be more permanent (without accounting for weight gain/loss etc.) or will it require constant top ups?


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## MOTTY26

Linlin18 said:


> Hello! You look amazing  I also had eyelid fat graft but the fat on one of my eyes is about 50% gone now (after 1 year).
> Is this procedure meant to be more permanent (without accounting for weight gain/loss etc.) or will it require constant top ups?



do u still remember which clinic uve done it with and how much?


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## MissOrange

Linlin18 said:


> Hello! You look amazing  I also had eyelid fat graft but the fat on one of my eyes is about 50% gone now (after 1 year).
> Is this procedure meant to be more permanent (without accounting for weight gain/loss etc.) or will it require constant top ups?


Hi there yes last month was a top up fat graft to the upper lids as 40% had gone after the first fat graft a year ago. I am hoping that eventually retention lasts.


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## pinkypuppet37

It is great info you have given us, do you know generally how much does it cost for a full facial fatgrafting at MVP?


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## MissOrange

pinkypuppet37 said:


> It is great info you have given us, do you know generally how much does it cost for a full facial fatgrafting at MVP?


It costs 1.5 million for full face fat graft at MVP. I think that includes a free top up. Friends have also recommended smps for full face fat grafting at 2 million and fresh clinic for forehead and temples only for 1 million. Since fat grafting needs a second or even third for retention best to find a clinic with a reasonable price so you can budget to cover 2-3 goes.


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## ChoiJaeYoung

Can you give me some skincare tips? Your skin looks flawless :o


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## cherishbaby

MissOrange, you look really pretty! I'm sorry to hear your horrible experiences in DA. We won't ever get there even for a consultation.
Thanks for your stories always!


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## MissOrange

ChoiJaeYoung said:


> Can you give me some skincare tips? Your skin looks flawless :o


Hi ChoiJaeYoung, I limit alcohol which dries the skin. I drink plenty of water and that can include green tea or Korean barley water too. Then any moisturiser. I use VDL Korean brand mild peeling gel as a daily facial scrub and innisfree Korean brand green tea seed serum too.

I noticed that the ideal BMI for me to retain the fat grafting is now 18.8. Here is my latest photo from yesterday, a month after eyelid fat graft top up at MVP. I am still amazed at how good my eyes look. Dr Seo at MVP gave young Rebecca smitten kitten sexy eyes and old me too!


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## MoonBeam3

This is amazing to me. Like truly this is a goal...but I have to ask. Is this even remotely attainable for white people??? Haha. Also, you seem to not have a strong cheekbone structure, but there's not sagging! Is that from the fat graft? 

Also I saw you on RealSelf and had to laugh at people saying you were lying!!! Hahha


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## Gats

MissOrange said:


> For those interested in chin shaving, the most innovative technique is the sonopet or ultrasonic knife shaving of bone. Lucian Ion in the UK did my chin shaving this way and it was painless with much less swelling than the old fashioned way of chin osteotomy bone cutting and screws in South Korea. Here is my chin in profile. The cost for the chin was roughly £3000 as the total for rib rhinoplasty and chin reshaping was £10,000.



When did you get your chin done? Do you have a before pic showing your before chin profile? They say the skin will eventually sag since you removed supporting structure but you obviously don't have this problem.


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## MissOrange

MoonBeam3 said:


> This is amazing to me. Like truly this is a goal...but I have to ask. Is this even remotely attainable for white people??? Haha. Also, you seem to not have a strong cheekbone structure, but there's not sagging! Is that from the fat graft?
> 
> Also I saw you on RealSelf and had to laugh at people saying you were lying!!! Hahha


Absolutely achievable in Caucasians too! On real self I follow viola xoxo who wrote her review going from 39 to 28 with facial fat grafting in Illinois! I created a notebook and put all the successful ps reviews I found on real self into it. My theory is that with ageing the skin sags because facial fat disappears in one's 40s so instead of a facelift which can look wind blown, just restore the lost fat. One side effect of looking young is an addiction to selfies. I keep worrying I will wake up and look old! And that my young face is me dreaming! Lol. I have to thank real self as Mills patients reviewed their lip lift there and that is how I found Mills! And yes you remembered how readers just couldn't believe I was really old. I was super flattered!


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> When did you get your chin done? Do you have a before pic showing your before chin profile? They say the skin will eventually sag since you removed supporting structure but you obviously don't have this problem.


Hi Gats, I had my chin done by Mr Lucian Ion of Wimpole Street in London in March 2016. I always hated my strong chin and profile and did not know it could simply be shaved with an ultrasonic knife! I got scared seeing CT scans of girls in SK who had their chin tips shaved off and put back on with screws! Sonopet is definitely more advanced and less traumatic. Mr Ion said yes I had a strong prominent chin and by reshaping with the ultrasonic knife he could soften the chin, reduce and make it rounder. Incredible technology! Like I woke up and my new chin was there. No swelling or bruising! Here is a before and after photo. I had rib rhino on the same day too with Ion.


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## MissOrange

Another tip to look young is dyeing the grey hair out. I use L'oreal excellence number 6 natural light brown. It has a comb applicator which makes the hair colour go on very naturally instead of in clumps. And there is no rule you have to chop off your locks when you become middle aged! I also noticed some gals wear glasses that are too small so it accentuates the zygoma. Make sure you cannot see any part of your cheeks on the outer sides of your cheeks! I look for glasses that are 52-54 in size. And never wear your hair flat as it will make your face look bigger! Style your hair with volume, curls and comb inwards to cover part of your face. This is very slimming. Try a fringe if your forehead is too big especially with frontal forehead balding with ageing. If in the UK try Mr Michael May who did my hair transplant for £4700. Although it is half this in SK.


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## MoonBeam3

Thanks! May I ask a few more questions?
I do know that caucasian skin doesn't hold up as well as asian skin, to me it's the most aging thing on white people. Do you have any suggestions about keeping skin youthful looking? Some people add fat to a saggy face and it just looks weird! Yours is so nice a bouncy looking still. I have been planning on using a dermaroller, as I hear it increases skin and collagen thickness, which is a weak point in caucasian skin. 
Also, I'd like fat added to my forehead, but would it seems like maybe the round forehead may look strange on non asians? I think that'll be my most aging area. 
In your opinion, is fat grafting in korea superior to other countries? The before and afters seem so much more striking and successful than in the US. 
Do you have any specific things you do to keep your body/hands looking young and healthy as well?


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## MissOrange

MoonBeam3 said:


> Thanks! May I ask a few more questions?
> I do know that caucasian skin doesn't hold up as well as asian skin, to me it's the most aging thing on white people. Do you have any suggestions about keeping skin youthful looking? Some people add fat to a saggy face and it just looks weird! Yours is so nice a bouncy looking still. I have been planning on using a dermaroller, as I hear it increases skin and collagen thickness, which is a weak point in caucasian skin.
> Also, I'd like fat added to my forehead, but would it seems like maybe the round forehead may look strange on non asians? I think that'll be my most aging area.
> In your opinion, is fat grafting in korea superior to other countries? The before and afters seem so much more striking and successful than in the US.
> Do you have any specific things you do to keep your body/hands looking young and healthy as well?


Hi MoonBeam3, all good questions. IMO Asians and Afrocaribbeans tend to age slower because their skin has melanin which protects the skin from the sun. Also Asians shy away from the culture of sunbathing and do the opposite, i.e. shield their skin from the sun. Even though I was born and raised in the UK, I spent most of my play times sitting in the shade to avoid the sun trying to make my skin look pale while classmates played in the sun with no sun screen as this was way back in the 1970s. Back then sunbathing and sun beds were very popular but again something I avoided. My family could not afford a holiday so I never went to the beach!

Yes I do believe fat grafting is both superior and much cheaper in Korea as IMO South Korea is the global centre for plastic surgery. I have met ladies who have flown in from USA, Australia, Europe, as well as Singapore, China, etc. I worked out that flying to Korea for £1000 including flights and lodgings then paying 1.5 million won or £1000 was much much cheaper than paying £12,000 for facial fat grafting in London! Adding fat graft to smooth the forehead which tends to lose fat and create a ridge above the brow and also tends to lose fat in the temples with ageing, would work on any skin and help restore a youthful face.

Specific advice for body and hands...in the UK we rarely get any sun so I spend most of my time wearing clothes to keep warm and shield from the rain! When we do get sun I do not sit in the parks or beaches like most Brits but like to stay indoors. This helps my body/hands remain young. Instead I take vitamin D supplements for lack of sun exposure. In Korea I hear ladies apply sunscreen every 2 hours and wear a parasol to shield from the hot sun. This custom is not done by Brits. They sell the most beautiful parasols in Korea.

I guess one would have to start at a young age to slow down ageing and the number one enemy of ageing are the sun's rays! That said with modern advances in plastic surgery, anyone can look younger with plastic surgery! Caucasians may need plastic surgery sooner than Asians and Afrocarribeans due to ageing sooner.


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## MissOrange

For those researching ps clinics in SK, here is the result of my research based on chatting with patients and seeing their recent B&A photos.

For v line, I would recommend going to see the face dental, TLPS (Dr Choi), Romian and GNG (Dr Choi) clinics.
For rhino, I would recommend going to see MVP, GNG (Dr Hong in particular did a fab revision rhino on an Asian American who flew in this month just for rhino), JJ Clinic different Dr Hong, and Trend.
For zygoma, consider regen where blogger bongqiuquu went, GNG or romian (Dr Kang is very popular with locals).
For eyes, MVP Dr Seo or Dr Hyun.
For fat grafting, MVP, DA but super expensive now, Fresh or April31.


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## MissOrange

I used to think a big eyelid crease would make my eyes bigger but then I looked at the older photos of me with big creases from UK plastic surgeons and realised that in my 50s my eyes look bigger with a small crease and ptosis correction by Dr Seo at MVP clinic than they did when I was in my 30s and 40s asking UK plastic surgeons to give me upper blepharoplasty with big eyelid creases. Best to demonstrate with my old photos. I noticed that Korean stars like Im Yoona and Jun Ji Hyun have big eyes and small creases! In fact small creases with ptosis correction gives much bigger eyes! See for yourself. One photo is with my daughter when I was 40s with a big crease but small eyes and one recently in my 50s with a small crease yet big eyes! I also had tip rhinoplasty in the UK in my 30s when the tip started to droop. The ideal nose angle is 106 degrees. A slightly upturned nose makes one look younger too.


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## MissOrange

Here I am trying to look like a Korean actress. No false eyelashes. Normal brown eyes. Just a little eyeliner. Lol. To think I look better and younger now in my 50s than I did in my early 30s! Definitely get eyelid fat grafting and des with ptosis correction with Dr Seo at MVP if you are 40s-60s! I still can't believe the rejuvenation transformation from my eyelid surgery at MVP in May 2016!


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## MissOrange

Here is a very old photo of me with my oldest daughter when she was a young child before I had any plastic surgery. My chin was too big, my eyelids droopy, my nose tip drooped, what can I say a disaster! Yet I was only aged 31!


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## Linlin18

I'm just wondering how you went about paying for your surgeries? Is it better to exchange over in Korea? The rates in my country are atrocious!


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## MissOrange

Linlin18 said:


> I'm just wondering how you went about paying for your surgeries? Is it better to exchange over in Korea? The rates in my country are atrocious!


Hi Linlin18 the sterling pound was strong for the Korean won last May but this year yikes! I exchanged online in the UK after going to www.travelmoney.moneysavingexpert.com and carried cash. You are allowed to carry the equivalent of $10,000 US dollars to Korea. Some gals say that myeongdong opposite the Chinese embassy has the best exchange rates and waited till they arrived to exchange.


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## MoonBeam3

At what age did you get your first fat graft, out of curiosity?


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## MissOrange

MoonBeam3 said:


> At what age did you get your first fat graft, out of curiosity?


At age 50! Like I only found South Korea last May. I am really late at finding the world's best plastic surgeons! I would never have flown to SK in my entire life had my Korean dad not passed away last year and all my siblings in the UK and USA had to fly to SK! It was my UK plastic surgeon Lucian Ion who suggested Korea! I was like but I don't speak Korean and went with him for rib rhino and chin shaving. But after the rhino infection I decided to explore his suggestion of Korea and read this blog. Then I came across smitten kitten's blog on MVP and thought wow no way Dr Seo transformed Rebecca into a sexy kitten! I want Dr Seo to work his magic on my eyes. Then I went to the MVP website and looked at old eyes and saw this thing on eyelid fat grafting! I was like, what is that? Wow those eyes went from old to young and printed it off. My plastic surgery journey in SK only started exactly a year ago! Then I had my first full face fat graft in July with top ups in September and last month. No sagging just ballooning when I eat too much lol. No lumps. I am keeping my weight at 18.8 BMI and if the fat graft looks like it may be going down I drink tons of water which seems to work to reinflate my face! Lol


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## Gats

MissOrange aka Benjamin Button.


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## MissOrange

Haha @Gats. I have to be careful I don't look younger than my own adult daughters! They already think it is freaky I look so young. Lol. Okay I have been getting messages from older women saying they don't think they can be as pretty. So here is an ugly old before photo of me alongside a recent no makeup photo to show you the magic of bullhorn lip lift. As we age, the philtrum sags from a young girl's 11-13 mms to an old adjumma's 20 mms and covers the upper teeth. I had my lip lift with Miss Caroline Mills of London for £2450. If you can find a plastic surgeon in SK who can do just as good, i.e. dramatic 1 cm shortening and for less than £2450 which is like 3.5 million won, please let me know so I can share. An added bonus is the length of my face has shortened too! Long faces look ageing. Rounder faces look young. And with philtrum shortening the bullhorn lip lift also turns the upper lip out a bit so I never need any more restylane to plump up the upper lip. Thin lips are also ageing. My philtrum is now 11 mms.


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## MissOrange

Sometimes it is really confusing to remember how old I am in each photo as I get younger looking as I age. So I like to have a photo with my growing daughters as a comparison. Here is a candid family shot from earlier this week in which my 50s husband and my 20s eldest ginormously tall daughter are with me in the kitchen. When I meet mums in their 50s-60s I want to tell them it is really easy to look young again! Don't go through life looking old when you can go through life with eternal youth! Lol.


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## Linlin18

MissOrange said:


> Hi Linlin18 the sterling pound was strong for the Korean won last May but this year yikes! I exchanged online in the UK after going to www.travelmoney.moneysavingexpert.com and carried cash. You are allowed to carry the equivalent of $10,000 US dollars to Korea. Some gals say that myeongdong opposite the Chinese embassy has the best exchange rates and waited till they arrived to exchange.



Yikes! I wanted to exchange money in my own country and bring cash but the exchange rates are horrible (1$ for 760 won here vs 1$ for 860 in Korea). 

Btw have you had any form of eye corrective surgery such as LASIK/LASEK? I was thinking of getting it in Korea but I also want DES haha


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## MissOrange

Linlin18 said:


> Yikes! I wanted to exchange money in my own country and bring cash but the exchange rates are horrible (1$ for 760 won here vs 1$ for 860 in Korea).
> 
> Btw have you had any form of eye corrective surgery such as LASIK/LASEK? I was thinking of getting it in Korea but I also want DES haha


Yes I have had wavefront lasik by Dr David Gartry of Moorfields Hospital in London. Wavefront lasik is better than regular lasik as it ensures 360 degrees is sharp and focussed rather than random spots with regular lasik. Only thing is when you grow old you end up wearing reading glasses. Although that said I went from -4 near sighted to perfect vision and now only need glasses to read. Wearing contact lens long term may lead to keratoconus complication.


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## MissOrange

Growing up in the UK I never saw Koreans so based beauty on Caucasians. Here is an amusing comparison of me in my 20s looking Korean and in my late 30s after blepharoplasty and tip rhino with Oxford graduate plastic surgeon Mr Jan Stanek. I went from Korean to Caucasian! Lol. Now I am happy to explore Asian beauty having visited Korea.


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## MissOrange

This is the lobby of MVP (most valuable plastic surgery) clinic in Apgujeong, Seoul. Now that I have found them and they are cheap, don't overcharge foreigners, have 3 board certified plastic surgeons so no chance of shadow doctors and have tried and tested them last year and this year, I can rest assured I can stay young looking in my 60s and 70s too at affordable prices! They better not up their prices to Beverly Hills prices! I heard that Dr Nassif on Botched charges $500 a consultation and from $30,000+ for revision rhino! MVP summer sale prices for des ptosis is only 2 million won and for primary rhino 3 million won. I think revision is from 4.5 million won. At this rate all Americans will fly to SK for safe, cheap and best plastic surgery in the world! No wonder when I arrived into Gangnam I thought wow people on the street are gorgeous! Have I stepped into another planet? Locals are charged a fraction of foreigner prices! Imagine a country that turns their citizens into a country of beautiful people. Lol.


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## Linlin18

MissOrange said:


> Yes I have had wavefront lasik by Dr David Gartry of Moorfields Hospital in London. Wavefront lasik is better than regular lasik as it ensures 360 degrees is sharp and focussed rather than random spots with regular lasik. Only thing is when you grow old you end up wearing reading glasses. Although that said I went from -4 near sighted to perfect vision and now only need glasses to read. Wearing contact lens long term may lead to keratoconus complication.



If you don't mind, when did you get it and did you experience any complications (minor or major) in the long run? Thanks!


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## MissOrange

Linlin18 said:


> If you don't mind, when did you get it and did you experience any complications (minor or major) in the long run? Thanks!


I had it done 13 years ago and no complications as it was the advanced wavefront done by a top Moorfields and Harley Street eye surgeon. My sister had regular lasik by someone else and has night vision problems.


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## pinkypuppet37

MissOrange said:


> I used to think a big eyelid crease would make my eyes bigger but then I looked at the older photos of me with big creases from UK plastic surgeons and realised that in my 50s my eyes look bigger with a small crease and ptosis correction by Dr Seo at MVP clinic than they did when I was in my 30s and 40s asking UK plastic surgeons to give me upper blepharoplasty with big eyelid creases. Best to demonstrate with my old photos. I noticed that Korean stars like Im Yoona and Jun Ji Hyun have big eyes and small creases! In fact small creases with ptosis correction gives much bigger eyes! See for yourself. One photo is with my daughter when I was 40s with a big crease but small eyes and one recently in my 50s with a small crease yet big eyes! I also had tip rhinoplasty in the UK in my 30s when the tip started to droop. The ideal nose angle is 106 degrees. A slightly upturned nose makes one look younger too.



Wow your eyes really have transformed. It is really apparent they look bigger now although the crease is small. I will visit MVP next time to consult re. revision DES or ptosis and fatgrafting. 
I have been looking for a while for a good surgeon for my eyes and I have also been so looking forward to having my first fat-grafting in Seoul.
I am often in Bangkok for work these days so i I visited the famous Dr here for Rhino, eyes and fat-grafting too. To be honest Ms Tiffany winners like Nong Poy and Nadia have always amazed me with their dramatic eyes and noses.
However, Ridiculous prices, terrible post-op and warlike aggressive consultants who treat patients like cash-cows. Consultations cost SGD60-150. The consultants r purely sale-people without proper knowledge of surgeries, often get rude when I ask about recommendations, procedures, material, methods, results and ask repeatedly 'when do you want to do the surgeries'. 
A normal surgeon with average background quoted USD4000 for rhino with just an implant, and with osteotomy it is USD6,000-8,000. A famous doctor but not even a board-certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon quoted me USD9000-12,000 for rhino. Fatgrafting is USD10,000. Revised DES is USD3,000-4,000.
I was surprised and negotiated like when i was in Korea without any success. The consultants keep on showing me all the certificates of the surgeons, lol 'certificates'. All hospitals claim they r the best in Thailand. Nevertheless, they dont mention at all whether they can deliver the results I yearn for at all.
One of a well-known Dr for FC here got very bad reviews of a patient on realself and he decided to reveal the incident on his website. He explained that due to his busy schedule replying emails within 2,3 weeks is normal[emoji43][emoji29][emoji58], and from what I read, the patient had some complications shortly after ops (the Dr later claimed it was not his fault) but didnt receive a reply promptly on a number of occasions so he decided to spread the news on lots of forums.
Dont they think with that sky-rocketed prices, the patients should deserve a good after-care service.

 [emoji28]After all that I have found out, Im still in shock how unethical they can be just because of money.


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## mlydzz

MissOrange said:


> Growing up in the UK I never saw Koreans so based beauty on Caucasians. Here is an amusing comparison of me in my 20s looking Korean and in my late 30s after blepharoplasty and tip rhino with Oxford graduate plastic surgeon Mr Jan Stanek. I went from Korean to Caucasian! Lol. Now I am happy to explore Asian beauty having visited Korea.


Just because they do those surgeries doesnt mean they want to look like caucasians.... and you dont even look close to a caucasian. wym?


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## MissOrange

pinkypuppet37 said:


> Wow your eyes really have transformed. It is really apparent they look bigger now although the crease is small. I will visit MVP next time to consult re. revision DES or ptosis and fatgrafting.
> I have been looking for a while for a good surgeon for my eyes and I have also been so looking forward to having my first fat-grafting in Seoul.
> I am often in Bangkok for work these days so i I visited the famous Dr here for Rhino, eyes and fat-grafting too. To be honest Ms Tiffany winners like Nong Poy and Nadia have always amazed me with their dramatic eyes and noses.
> However, Ridiculous prices, terrible post-op and warlike aggressive consultants who treat patients like cash-cows. Consultations cost SGD60-150. The consultants r purely sale-people without proper knowledge of surgeries, often get rude when I ask about recommendations, procedures, material, methods, results and ask repeatedly 'when do you want to do the surgeries'.
> A normal surgeon with average background quoted USD4000 for rhino with just an implant, and with osteotomy it is USD6,000-8,000. A famous doctor but not even a board-certified plastic & reconstructive surgeon quoted me USD9000-12,000 for rhino. Fatgrafting is USD10,000. Revised DES is USD3,000-4,000.
> I was surprised and negotiated like when i was in Korea without any success. The consultants keep on showing me all the certificates of the surgeons, lol 'certificates'. All hospitals claim they r the best in Thailand. Nevertheless, they dont mention at all whether they can deliver the results I yearn for at all.
> One of a well-known Dr for FC here got very bad reviews of a patient on realself and he decided to reveal the incident on his website. He explained that due to his busy schedule replying emails within 2,3 weeks is normal[emoji43][emoji29][emoji58], and from what I read, the patient had some complications shortly after ops (the Dr later claimed it was not his fault) but didnt receive a reply promptly on a number of occasions so he decided to spread the news on lots of forums.
> Dont they think with that sky-rocketed prices, the patients should deserve a good after-care service.
> 
> [emoji28]After all that I have found out, Im still in shock how unethical they can be just because of money.


Hi @pinkypuppet37,

Wow thank you for sharing how it is like in Thailand. $10,000 USD for fat grafting!!! That's crazy pricing. Then again it is up to £12,000 in the UK for fat grafting according to real self and I read one unhappy review even at that price! There are some clinics in SK that in my opinion overcharge foreigners. For instance I asked a well known clinic JW an opinion and quote on kakao for my short nose. The quote was 13 million won for revision rib rhino! That's like £10,000! I had paid a top UK rhino specialist £7,000. Then I managed to negotiate it down to 11 million won. But thought my tip will drop 6 degrees with ageing and that is free correction! I also asked about zygoma reduction after sending photos and the consultant at JW said I was not a candidate as I did not have protruding cheeks. This was not why I asked for an opinion as my cheeks are wide to the sides but at least the clinic said no which matched the opinion of a UK maxillofacial surgeon who said I did not need zygoma reduction. But GNG wrote me saying yes I needed zygoma reduction for 6 million. In other words, you have to already know what you want else you may be sold a procedure you may not need. One girl felt pressured into 2 jaw surgery by a clinic and had paid a deposit but she felt she only needed her chin doing. She asked for my opinion as to what to do. Thank goodness she chose to cancel as 2 jaw surgery is a major operation and she didn't even think she needed it!

As for rhino revision, I have yet to come across a result where silicone has not been used in the bridge as part of the rib revision in SK. Even though some men have had successful rib rhino revision at Trend for 8.8 million with Dr Lee and at JJ clinic for 5.5 million by Dr Hong, it seems silicone was used for the bridge and autologous rib for the rest of the nose. 5.5-8.8 million is more reasonable for rib rhino revision than 11-13 million in my opinion.


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## MissOrange

When you do go from 40s to 20s or 50s to 20s, no one will believe you are 40s or 50s so be prepared. My 40s friend who got her eyes and full face fat graft at MVP last month went to an optician's and asked for reading glasses. He was baffled so she had to share her real age as in my opinion she now looks like a teenager! Lol. I went for my NHS mammogram and the hospital kept checking my details to make sure I was the patient with the right date of birth. When I went for my 50s cardiovascular health check at my GP surgery, the 28 year old nurse was confused and I had to explain and show the letter that this was for my 50 health check. She then wanted to know my secrets! 

There is a slight downside in that no one believes me when I say I am retired as I am in my 50s. I feel like I should be working or applying to university all over again! Lol. And some people give my husband a disapproving look but actually we are both in our 50s. Oh well it is further evidence that you do end up looking 20s!


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## mlydzz

MissOrange said:


> When you do go from 40s to 20s or 50s to 20s, no one will believe you are 40s or 50s so be prepared. My 40s friend who got her eyes and full face fat graft at MVP last month went to an optician's and asked for reading glasses. He was baffled so she had to share her real age as in my opinion she now looks like a teenager! Lol. I went for my NHS mammogram and the hospital kept checking my details to make sure I was the patient with the right date of birth. When I went for my 50s cardiovascular health check at my GP surgery, the 28 year old nurse was confused and I had to explain and show the letter that this was for my 50 health check. She then wanted to know my secrets!
> 
> There is a slight downside in that no one believes me when I say I am retired as I am in my 50s. I feel like I should be working or applying to university all over again! Lol. And some people give my husband a disapproving look but actually we are both in our 50s. Oh well it is further evidence that you do end up looking 20s!


LOL thats indeed a funny story, im glad everything went well for you.


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## MissOrange

@mlydzz I noticed you asking about fat grafting. I have researched and found another good clinic to add to the list for fat grafting. So now we have MVP, fresh and smps. MVP charges 1.5 mill and smps 2 mill. I saw a nice result for smps and the pricing is way cheaper than DA trying to charge 5 million to foreigners!  Go for consults at the 3 clinics I researched and now that you know the ball park figure for fat grafting you won't be overcharged.


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## MissOrange

Today's post will be on breast implants to look young. For gals getting BA please ensure you choose US FDA approved ones like allergan natrelle or mentor. Motiva is not US FDA approved! I say this because for decades I never bothered to ask my UK plastic surgeon whether my implants were US FDA approved or not and each one failed, i.e. leaked or ruptured! I started with Trilucent in 1996 as back then there was a huge scare with silicone implants and saline were known to deflate. That ruptured in 1999 and was withdrawn off the market for causing cancer in lab rats. In 1999 I had hydrogel but in 2002 they leaked and were replaced with PIP. I think I was lucky to have an early batch of PIP and not the toxic batch and it was replaced in 2012 with my first ever US FDA approved implants allergan natrelle. I had to bite the bullet and finally agree to silicone implants. Touch wood they do not rupture. The first 3 had been EU approved but not US FDA approved. US FDA are more stringent with approval and EU more lax. Be safe and choose US FDA approved breast implants to save you time, money, failures, and give you peace of mind. The other piece of advice is that if you gain weight, so do your BA. Unless you plan to keep your weight fixed, go with a smaller implant as invariably we add a bit of weight on as we age.


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## astrid07

MissOrange said:


> @mlydzz I noticed you asking about fat grafting. I have researched and found another good clinic to add to the list for fat grafting. So now we have MVP, fresh and smps. MVP charges 1.5 mill and smps 2 mill. I saw a nice result for smps and the pricing is way cheaper than DA trying to charge 5 million to foreigners!  Go for consults at the 3 clinics I researched and now that you know the ball park figure for fat grafting you won't be overcharged.


Do you have any tips for negotiation?? For example, how much percentage I ask for discount etc.


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## MissOrange

@astrid07 this is a commonly asked question. The first thing is to know what the market rate is. When friends share the prices they paid you can work out if they actually paid too much or got a fantastic bargain. 

For des and ptosis correction, I would say 2 million is a fantastic bargain and then work your way up as to what you would be willing to pay if you went to a more expensive clinic. Clearly if they want 4-5 million won then the clinic is overcharging and you had better negotiate hard or pick somewhere else. Be prepared to walk away from a clinic that is charging double.

For primary rhino, 3 million is a great price for primary and 4.5-5 million for revision rhino is fair but 7-11 million for revision silicone rhino and 11-13 million for rib revision rhino may well be overcharging foreigners. Some have paid 11 million for revision rhino! Wow! Don't expect that by paying 13 million you will get a fantastic nose. Price does not necessarily equate to quality. 

And for fat grafting a fair price is 1.5-2 million including one free top up. Locals pay 600-1.2 million.

Now that you know what you should be paying you contact the clinic by kakao with photos. Let them suggest a price first. If it is a ridiculously high price, there is no point in negotiating as clearly they are overcharging foreigners. The most expensive clinics are JW, Cinderella, Banobagi, Regen and April31. Some gals have their parents pay so don't bother to negotiate and are happy for their parents to pay high prices. As a parent I am not happy to overpay! Lol. If it is high but you can afford if they reduce by 30% suggest things like you can write a review on Tpf, you have an Instagram following, you are okay with your image being used on their website or Instagram, etc. This should get you a 20-30% discount. Multiple procedures should also get you a discount without the use of your image. Also suggest you can pay with cash won. Quotes in won are cheaper than USD quotes so ask for prices in won. Be prepared to wait and not reply right away. Don't sound too desperate for surgery. Do declare your budget if you really like the clinic but need them to match your budget and let them know. Do not be enticed into more procedures than you need. Hope this helps and screenshot any agreed price you make with the clinic in case they try to renege on the price agreement when you are fasted, changed and waiting for your surgery like what happened to me at DA clinic. Astonishingly awful experience!


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## Linlin18

^ Do you think the negotiation with DA had something to do with why it turned out so badly after the 3rd time? From what I read, they were clearly trying to deny their price promise to you. I'm worried that if I negotiate too much, they will send in a shadow doctor or something?


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## mlydzz

MissOrange said:


> @mlydzz I noticed you asking about fat grafting. I have researched and found another good clinic to add to the list for fat grafting. So now we have MVP, fresh and smps. MVP charges 1.5 mill and smps 2 mill. I saw a nice result for smps and the pricing is way cheaper than DA trying to charge 5 million to foreigners!  Go for consults at the 3 clinics I researched and now that you know the ball park figure for fat grafting you won't be overcharged.


Thank you! I heard about smps as well but i dont like the fact that they only have 1 doctor doing all the surgeries so i was thinking of MVP and fresh. FRESH quoted me 2mil for fat graft


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## MissOrange

Wow I just found out that the famous Leng sisters Yein and Sean had their surgeries at MVP with Dr Choi and Dr Hyun last year! Leng Yein a famous Malaysian DJ chose MVP for revision des and revision rhino! Wow guess I lucked out picking MVP last year.


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## MissOrange

Linlin18 said:


> ^ Do you think the negotiation with DA had something to do with why it turned out so badly after the 3rd time? From what I read, they were clearly trying to deny their price promise to you. I'm worried that if I negotiate too much, they will send in a shadow doctor or something?


Hi Linlin18, easy just go to MVP, smps or fresh for fat grafting. No need to negotiate and fair prices from the start! DA now goes on my list of expensive SK clinics out of my budget range. Lol.


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## MissOrange

Looks like Sean Leng got her eyes done at MVP and maybe some form of lift perhaps acculift. Yein looks like she had her eyes and nose done and something to her upper lip based on the tape, dressings and cast.


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## astrid07

MissOrange said:


> @astrid07 this is a commonly asked question. The first thing is to know what the market rate is. When friends share the prices they paid you can work out if they actually paid too much or got a fantastic bargain.
> 
> For des and ptosis correction, I would say 2 million is a fantastic bargain and then work your way up as to what you would be willing to pay if you went to a more expensive clinic. Clearly if they want 4-5 million won then the clinic is overcharging and you had better negotiate hard or pick somewhere else. Be prepared to walk away from a clinic that is charging double.
> 
> For primary rhino, 3 million is a great price for primary and 4.5-5 million for revision rhino is fair but 7-11 million for revision silicone rhino and 11-13 million for rib revision rhino may well be overcharging foreigners. Some have paid 11 million for revision rhino! Wow! Don't expect that by paying 13 million you will get a fantastic nose. Price does not necessarily equate to quality.
> 
> And for fat grafting a fair price is 1.5-2 million including one free top up. Locals pay 600-1.2 million.
> 
> Now that you know what you should be paying you contact the clinic by kakao with photos. Let them suggest a price first. If it is a ridiculously high price, there is no point in negotiating as clearly they are overcharging foreigners. The most expensive clinics are JW, Cinderella, Banobagi, Regen and April31. Some gals have their parents pay so don't bother to negotiate and are happy for their parents to pay high prices. As a parent I am not happy to overpay! Lol. If it is high but you can afford if they reduce by 30% suggest things like you can write a review on Tpf, you have an Instagram following, you are okay with your image being used on their website or Instagram, etc. This should get you a 20-30% discount. Multiple procedures should also get you a discount without the use of your image. Also suggest you can pay with cash won. Quotes in won are cheaper than USD quotes so ask for prices in won. Be prepared to wait and not reply right away. Don't sound too desperate for surgery. Do declare your budget if you really like the clinic but need them to match your budget and let them know. Do not be enticed into more procedures than you need. Hope this helps and screenshot any agreed price you make with the clinic in case they try to renege on the price agreement when you are fasted, changed and waiting for your surgery like what happened to me at DA clinic. Astonishingly awful experience!



Wow!! thank you for sharing all your knowledge and experience in Korea!! This is definitely gonna help me a lot and a lot 
However, local only pay 600~ 1.2 million for fat grafting??? Is it possible??? That is price for getting filler! astonishing...Have to dig out further more.. You recommend Fresh for fat grafting and have you been there as well?


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## MissOrange

astrid07 said:


> Wow!! thank you for sharing all your knowledge and experience in Korea!! This is definitely gonna help me a lot and a lot
> However, local only pay 600~ 1.2 million for fat grafting??? Is it possible??? That is price for getting filler! astonishing...Have to dig out further more.. You recommend Fresh for fat grafting and have you been there as well?


Hi astrid07, I haven't been to fresh but heard from friends that fresh and smps are good. I can speak for MVP as I had my eyelid fg there. No one seems to have gotten as bruised and facially distorted as I have with full face fg at DA!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on liposuction vs exercise for tummy and thighs. In 2004 and 2008 I paid £4000 for both abdo and thigh liposuction. In 2004 I tried traditional liposuction with great results but as I did not exercise the tummy and thigh fat returned or rather remaining fat cells expanded! In 2008 I paid £4000 again and tried Vaser liposelection. Worked great and left me with a 6 pack but yet again the tummy and thigh fat returned. I thought I cannot keep paying £4000 every 4 years or £1000 a year to keep the fat off my tummy and inner thighs so signed up for adult beginner's ballet classes at the English national ballet at £10 an evening class once a week X 10 weeks. I think the oldest student was a man in his 70s! I then tried level 2 for 10 weeks but quit at level 3 as that was proper ballet! It improved my posture as I tended to slouch a lot before, as an added bonus got rid of my upper arm bat wings and toned up my tummy and legs!  I also tried to increase my mobility with walking! Lol. Too old to jog or run marathons like some super mums. Here are my legs in ballet pointe shoes. I borrowed my daughter's for the photo. Beginner's class was in ballet slippers and no tutu. It worked. The latest innovation is laser liposuction but unless you add some form of light exercise, fat returns with a vengeance! Lol. Skinny legs equate to youth. No point in having a young face and flabby limbs with cellulite! Yes those are my 50+ legs to match a younger face.


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## Gats

@MissOrange, they say you have to choose between your body or your face as you age, that doesn't look like it's true in your case. 

For lipo I heard once those fat cells are gone, from your tummy and thighs in your case, if you gain weight it will show more in your body parts where you never had liposuction, so the way your body distributes fat when you gain weight changes after lipo. Ex. if before lipo you put on weight easily to your tummy and thighs, after lipo your arms or back areas where you didn't have lipo would put on weight before you saw it in your lipo areas. It's only if you gain a lot of weight will lipo areas go back to how they looked like before. It sounds like that wasn't the case for you? Your body put on fat the same way after lipo?


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> @MissOrange, they say you have to choose between your body or your face as you age, that doesn't look like it's true in your case.
> 
> For lipo I heard once those fat cells are gone, from your tummy and thighs in your case, if you gain weight it will show more in your body parts where you never had liposuction, so the way your body distributes fat when you gain weight changes after lipo. Ex. if before lipo you put on weight easily to your tummy and thighs, after lipo your arms or back areas where you didn't have lipo would put on weight before you saw it in your lipo areas. It's only if you gain a lot of weight will lipo areas go back to how they looked like before. It sounds like that wasn't the case for you? Your body put on fat the same way after lipo?


Hi Gats, if I do gain a few pounds now (9 years since my last lipo), I notice it in my back, upper arms and face! I call it back fat, flabby bat wings and fat graft balloon face. Lol. The good news is the fat goes down if I lose the few pounds. I am really surprised at how sensitive a few lbs of weight gain can make! I think after 2 lipos to my tummy and inner thighs it is harder for those areas to gain weight now and walking exercise helps tighten the abs and tone the legs. A friend sent me this on non surgical no needles laser liposuction even in skinny people!


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## MissOrange

Today I woke up and thought how old am I? Dang I am 51! No way! I don't look or feel or sound 51? I don't want to be 51. Who wants to be 51? Even 30 to me sounds old....

Today's post is on teeth or porcelain veneers. I was born with teeth all over the place. Unlucky genes. As a young adult I wore braces. I must have been the oldest person to wear braces as in America young teens wear braces. It straightened the teeth but as the decades went by I noticed the teeth start to yellow with age. I paid £900 for peroxide bleaching which did not really work and was so painful and cumbersome to do each night. And light whitening did not work either. I got a hold of Cindy Jackson's book and she mentioned porcelain veneers and in 2004 tracked down her celebrity cosmetic dentist in North London, a South African dentist called Mervyn Druian. Including the consultation and veneers the bill came to £5500. He told me veneers last 10 years and in 2014 I paid to replace the veneers for a whopping £9000. The cost of plastic surgery and dentistry has risen soooo much. If anyone can find a cosmetic dentist in SK who can do it for less than £1000 a tooth, please share! I had replaced the veneers thinking this would improve my smile as I had no upper teeth show but it did not. What did improve the smile was bullhorn philtrum reduction lip lift. The veneers did not need replacing at 10 years which means hopefully this expensive set will last well into my 60s. Here is my bullhorn lip lift smile revealing both upper and lower porcelain teeth veneers. I chose the whitest colour of porcelain veneers which may or may not be the right colour as dentures are also white! Lol. I remember Dr Druian asking me if I was sure I wanted to choose this white a colour, and I said yes! White perfect teeth make one look youthful. Yellow crooked teeth make one look old.


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## Dreamii

Hi there, do you happen to know any clinic in SK specialize in face lifting? 
I plan to go back for acculift and maybe facelifting as well since my cheeks kinda sagged after my square jaw reduction a few year back.


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## MissOrange

Dreamii said:


> Hi there, do you happen to know any clinic in SK specialize in face lifting?
> I plan to go back for acculift and maybe facelifting as well since my cheeks kinda sagged after my square jaw reduction a few year back.


Hi Dreamii, looks like Sean Leng may have had acculift with Dr Hyun at MVP last year going by the taping on her cheeks in the photo I posted. My friend had laser acculift with Dr Hyun in April of this year and is happy with the results. I haven't tried a surgical facelift. Another younger friend from Australia had SMAS facelift with Dr Choi at MVP and she too is happy with the results. I rely on radiesse dermal filler for my nasolabial lines which works instantly but needs redoing every 4-6 months. I haven't researched other clinics for facelift yet.


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## MissOrange

MissOrange said:


> Hi Dreamii, looks like Sean Leng may have had acculift with Dr Hyun at MVP last year going by the taping on her cheeks in the photo I posted. My friend had laser acculift with Dr Hyun in April of this year and is happy with the results. I haven't tried a surgical facelift. Another younger friend from Australia had SMAS facelift with Dr Choi at MVP and she too is happy with the results. I rely on radiesse dermal filler for my nasolabial lines which works instantly but needs redoing every 4-6 months. I haven't researched other clinics for facelift yet.


Correction my friend had threadlift in April not acculift. Same tapes on cheek as Sean Leng so maybe Sean had threadlift and not acculift?


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on dermal fillers or liquid facelift. I tried juvederm voluma in my cheeks but it did not remove the nasolabial fold so am sticking with radiesse filler directly into the nasolabial or smile crease which works instantly and lasts 4-6 months. Here is a before when my nasolabial crease is becoming apparent again and one the next day after radiesse. It can also be used for marionette lines but I have not tried that yet. If you are on a budget, you could try being a Botox or filler model for training courses. You then may pay 1/3 of what patients would normally pay.


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## MissOrange

Today's tip to look 30 years younger is on hair, makeup and clothes. Teens wear t shirts, shorts, jeans and trainers and tend to have messy long hair. Ladies in their 20s wear slimming dresses and tend to have their hair styled shoulder length. To look younger dress younger and do not wear false eyelashes. Here are 2 photos a day apart. In one I look like a teenager without false lashes, hair long and slightly messy and wearing a t shirt. Try shopping at Gap, Zara and H&M. The big young eyes are care of Dr Seo at MVP clinic. No epi, no lat cantho just des with small crease to make it almost look like a mono lid which makes one look super young, ptosis correction to create doll eyes and eyelid fat grafting for young eyes. The one time fat graft to forehead and temples was care of DA clinic and has lasted 11 months and counting. In the other photo I have a professional blow dry and the angle makes it look shoulder length and wearing a body hugging dress and look 20s.


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## MissOrange

Continuing on the hair theme. Experiment with lots of different styles to find the one that makes you look younger. Change your hair parting or try a young looking fringe. If you are afraid of bone surgery, then style your hair forward to cover the angles of your jaw. If you do not have long hair, try wearing hair extensions. Here is an example of a young looking fringe as I try to look like a Japanese school girl (having watched lots of J horror films!).


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on how to have a 20s body in your 50s without extreme spinning exercise, whole body lipo or running marathons. Firstly, it has been proven that probiotic drinks (fat not 0%fat) put good bacteria in your bowels which helps you lose weight. The fat in these drinks allow the good bacteria to survive the acidic stomach. Skinny people have more good bacteria in their bowels than obese people. Another tip is red bush tea which has no caffeine and is actually a legume but this drink may also be associated with weight loss. And a third tip is before exercise drink caffeine to increase calorie burn. To keep the skin supple and not sagging, drink plenty of water to hydrate the skin as it dries as you age and moisturise frequently. Also cumulative sun exposure is the biggest extrinsic contributor to skin aging! So if you choose outdoor sports, wear a cap, sunscreen, and cover up. 

I prefer indoor mall walking exercise and daily steps with light housework. Today for the first time in years I stepped inside my home gym to try to gain some muscle tone like Wonder Woman! Lol. If I can do it so can you! I was always last to be picked for school sports teams!


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## Bee-licious

MissOrange said:


> @pinkypuppet37 I paid DAPRS 2.5 million won for 2 full facial fat grafting and included a 10% tax refund. Be prepared to negotiate with the consultant in person. The price initially started higher! I mentioned the price given to a friend and asked to match this as she had been offered 1.8 million for one or 2.5 million fo two. They agreed. I have since negotiated a third as although the fat grafting has stayed in the forehead and temples (only had it done once there), I think I need a top up again to the malar cheeks and around the mouth to stay permanently six months after my second. DA started at 1.5 million won and I started at 700,000 won for the third. We agreed at 1 million won. I would say know your budget and if the quote is still too high over kakao, meet with Dr Kim in person and then afterwards try your best to get them to work with you so it can be affordable for you. If you are active on social media, this can help with negotiations. I feel foreigners should be paying as close to local prices as possible and finding clinics that do this and have board certified plastic surgeons then becomes a win:win.


 how did you get the tax refund on surgery? I didn't know this was possible!!!


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## mlydzz

Bee-licious said:


> how did you get the tax refund on surgery? I didn't know this was possible!!!


 You just ask them to give u the tax refund receipt so you can refund it at the airport. There's tax refund kiosks in it and im pretty sure it's easy to find as they have big letters on top. Also you can see them on the airport map.
A little googling on how to refund ur tax at the airport won't hurt. There are many blogs out there who explain it better to you.


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## J Cn

Thanks for all your educational posts MissOrange. You look amazing!


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## crystalhearts

Thank you @MissOrange for all the information. You look beautiful!! May I ask if I wanted to do full face fat graft and eyelid surgery on the same trip but at different clinics. Which surgery should I do first? Thank you in advance!


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## MissOrange

crystalhearts said:


> Thank you @MissOrange for all the information. You look beautiful!! May I ask if I wanted to do full face fat graft and eyelid surgery on the same trip but at different clinics. Which surgery should I do first? Thank you in advance!


Thanks @crystalhearts! For eyelid fat graft ideally do this with des at the same time. If you want full face fat graft get the eyelid surgery first and you can either do it in the same operation or choose another clinic to do the full face fat graft separately. As the face swells with fat grafting, do your eyes first. Sometimes it is nice to wait until the eyes heal and see how your new face looks with transformed eyes, before you change your face again with full face fat graft. Bear in mind that full face fat graft needs a top up as half gets reabsorbed after the first go, so this means at least 2 trips to Korea.


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## Bee-licious

mlydzz said:


> You just ask them to give u the tax refund receipt so you can refund it at the airport. There's tax refund kiosks in it and im pretty sure it's easy to find as they have big letters on top. Also you can see them on the airport map.
> A little googling on how to refund ur tax at the airport won't hurt. There are many blogs out there who explain it better to you.


Thanks! I just found out that since 2016 South Korea has been offering tax refunds on surgery - amazing! What a great incentive!


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## MissOrange

Bee-licious said:


> how did you get the tax refund on surgery? I didn't know this was possible!!!


@Bee-licious sometimes clinics charge 10% more if you want a tax refund receipt. They shouldn't as the tax refund was a presidential decree to 384 plastic surgery clinics to attract more foreigners to Korea for plastic surgery after bad press in 2015. You get 8-10% back at the airport. Here is a photo of the tax refund gate section at Incheon. The tax refund offer has been extended to December 31, 2017 and you have to bring the receipt to the airport within 3 months of service. For smaller amounts, certain department stores like Lotte and Hyundai can issue you a tax refund.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on hair loss in old age. Women tend to lose frontal hairline in their late 40s. Yep our hairline recedes!!! This then makes the face look even longer and older! Hair transplant is not just for balding men but a good anti-aging procedure in women too! It is advised to get a hair transplant after a facelift as the facelift moves the hairline back even further! As my hairline receded before my face sagged, I had my hair transplant a few years ago in my late 40s. It only takes one day under local anaesthesia and took 10 hours in my case with Dr Michael May of the Wimpole clinic. It cost me £4700 but if you read @itsamemario 's Tpf review on her hair transplant in Korea you too can get a hair transplant like hers for half what I paid in the UK! Here is a photo of my hair transplant when I got home. You follow a protocol of steroid pills, painkillers and antibiotics post op. It looks painful but I felt no pain. A strip of scalp is excised from almost ear to ear behind my head and the follicles removed one by one and reimplanted in scalpel cuts into the front of my forehead. I was given some Valium in the chair so was very mellow for the long procedure. The hair then take years to grow to full length as it is transplanted as tiny few mms hairs! Be prepared to have people stare at your forehead fuzz until it grows to a sensible length. Like having beard stubble on your forehead! Luckily women can style their hair to hide the fuzz.


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## MissOrange

Here is what my balding hairline used to look like the very month I decided to go and get a hair transplant in 2014. My hairline had receded more than superstar Hugh Grant who is older! That's enough to make anyone want to get a hair transplant subito! Lol.


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## MissOrange

A year and a half later my hairline looked much improved and younger! Come back Hugh Grant! Can I have another selfie photo! I look better now. Lol.


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## Gantz

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on hair loss in old age. Women tend to lose frontal hairline in their late 40s. Yep our hairline recedes!!! This then makes the face look even longer and older! Hair transplant is not just for balding men but a good anti-aging procedure in women too! It is advised to get a hair transplant after a facelift as the facelift moves the hairline back even further! As my hairline receded before my face sagged, I had my hair transplant a few years ago in my late 40s. It only takes one day under local anaesthesia and took 10 hours in my case with Dr Michael May of the Wimpole clinic. It cost me £4700 but if you read @itsamemario 's Tpf review on her hair transplant in Korea you too can get a hair transplant like hers for half what I paid in the UK! Here is a photo of my hair transplant when I got home. You follow a protocol of steroid pills, painkillers and antibiotics post op. It looks painful but I felt no pain. A strip of scalp is excised from almost ear to ear behind my head and the follicles removed one by one and reimplanted in scalpel cuts into the front of my forehead. I was given some Valium in the chair so was very mellow for the long procedure. The hair then take years to grow to full length as it is transplanted as tiny few mms hairs! Be prepared to have people stare at your forehead fuzz until it grows to a sensible length. Like having beard stubble on your forehead! Luckily women can style their hair to hide the fuzz.


Hi MissOrange! Thank you for your information, it has helped me a lot! You look great as well 

My questions would be: 
1.Did you have FUT or FUE and why?
2.How is your donor site? Is it a straight or a zig zag line? Does it have hair? How to you cover it if it has no hair?
3.Did you lose any from the transplanted hair?
4.Do you know what happens if you have face lifting AFTER the hair transplant? Will somebody lose some of the precious transplanted hair?
5.Can somebody transplant of face lifting incisions?

Thank you


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## MissOrange

Gantz said:


> Hi MissOrange! Thank you for your information, it has helped me a lot! You look great as well
> 
> My questions would be:
> 1.Did you have FUT or FUE and why?
> 2.How is your donor site? Is it a straight or a zig zag line? Does it have hair? How to you cover it if it has no hair?
> 3.Did you lose any from the transplanted hair?
> 4.Do you know what happens if you have face lifting AFTER the hair transplant? Will somebody lose some of the precious transplanted hair?
> 5.Can somebody transplant of face lifting incisions?
> 
> Thank you


HI @Gantz, I had FUT. A strip of scalp was taken from the back of my head by the technician and then Dr May closed the incision. The technician removed each hair follicle in preparation of transplanting it to my forehead. The back of my scalp felt tight as the skin literally had to be pulled back together to close the long straight strip of missing scalp. A part of the donor site was shaved for access but the hair grew back and it was in the back of my scalp so my long hair just covered it.

Yes the stress and trauma to the scalp does cause hair shedding at an alarming rate. I would brush my regular hair and clumps fell out! I must have lost 50% of my normal hair as each time I ran a comb or brush more hair fell out. I quickly googled to see what was going on and then realised the scalp was responding to trauma. Luckily I have thick hair so could withstand 50% loss and now 3 years on my hair is finally back to thick and full. I'd say 90% of the several 1000 transplanted hair follicles survived and in fact I got so much hair on my forehead that I started to pluck some out as it was too much but then my hair stylist told me off saying you are pulling out £10 with each hair! Lol.

I haven't had a facelift yet so don't know what will happen to the hair transplant.

I found this on YouTube about FUT and the clinic I went to. It was his technician who did 90% of the procedure and not Mr May which I felt was a bit cheating as I paid £4700 for Mr May to do the surgery and not his tech. But since the results were fine I did not complain.


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## crystalhearts

Thank you so much again for your very helpful information! You are right, I should do the eyes first and then full face fat grafting. Thank you for your review with your doctor at MVP as well! I just read your post about hair receding as well, so helpful. I have a way larger forhead then you. Your new hair graft turned out so well! I asked a clinic in Seoul how much it would cost me and they quoted me 18,000 won. Shall save up more money for my hair transplant!  





MissOrange said:


> Thanks @crystalhearts! For eyelid fat graft ideally do this with des at the same time. If you want full face fat graft get the eyelid surgery first and you can either do it in the same operation or choose another clinic to do the full face fat graft separately. As the face swells with fat grafting, do your eyes first. Sometimes it is nice to wait until the eyes heal and see how your new face looks with transformed eyes, before you change your face again with full face fat graft. Bear in mind that full face fat graft needs a top up as half gets reabsorbed after the first go, so this means at least 2 trips to Korea.


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## Gantz

MissOrange said:


> HI @Gantz, I had FUT. A strip of scalp was taken from the back of my head by the technician and then Dr May closed the incision. The technician removed each hair follicle in preparation of transplanting it to my forehead. The back of my scalp felt tight as the skin literally had to be pulled back together to close the long straight strip of missing scalp. A part of the donor site was shaved for access but the hair grew back and it was in the back of my scalp so my long hair just covered it.
> 
> Yes the stress and trauma to the scalp does cause hair shedding at an alarming rate. I would brush my regular hair and clumps fell out! I must have lost 50% of my normal hair as each time I ran a comb or brush more hair fell out. I quickly googled to see what was going on and then realised the scalp was responding to trauma. Luckily I have thick hair so could withstand 50% loss and now 3 years on my hair is finally back to thick and full. I'd say 90% of the several 1000 transplanted hair follicles survived and in fact I got so much hair on my forehead that I started to pluck some out as it was too much but then my hair stylist told me off saying you are pulling out £10 with each hair! Lol.
> 
> I haven't had a facelift yet so don't know what will happen to the hair transplant.
> 
> I found this on YouTube about FUT and the clinic I went to. It was his technician who did 90% of the procedure and not Mr May which I felt was a bit cheating as I paid £4700 for Mr May to do the surgery and not his tech. But since the results were fine I did not complain.



Omg FUT sounds so scary! Why did you chose it instead of FUE? My hair would never stand the loss of 50% of it because it is already very thin :/ 

Again thank you for sharing your experiences


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## Mandy1605

satine502 said:


> Blindness can be caused with injecting around the eye due to "retinal artery embolism"= occlusion. Basically clogs the artery that feeds the retina in the eye. Danger zone is the supratrochlear artery that runs down right below the head of the eyebrow. This is why practitioners are cautioned prior to injecting glabellar, nasal bridge and eyelid hollowing.
> 
> I've been a plastic surgery injector in the states for 8 years. Be cautious folks



Sorry if this is a dumb question but will aegyosal filler injections cause this harm? Thanks!


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## MissOrange

Gantz said:


> Omg FUT sounds so scary! Why did you chose it instead of FUE? My hair would never stand the loss of 50% of it because it is already very thin :/
> 
> Again thank you for sharing your experiences


Hi @Gantz, I never knew I would suffer hair loss with FUT. I was like shocked and thinking what is going on? They didn't tell me this would happen else I may not have had the procedure! I didn't even research FUE vs FUT. I just walked in for a free quote for hair transplant, paid and had the procedure 3 days later!


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## MissOrange

crystalhearts said:


> Thank you so much again for your very helpful information! You are right, I should do the eyes first and then full face fat grafting. Thank you for your review with your doctor at MVP as well! I just read your post about hair receding as well, so helpful. I have a way larger forhead then you. Your new hair graft turned out so well! I asked a clinic in Seoul how much it would cost me and they quoted me 18,000 won. Shall save up more money for my hair transplant!


@crystalhearts is that 18,000,000 won (close to $18,000 USD) or 1,800,000 won (close to $1,800 USD)? 18,000 won is like $18 USD? Lol. @itsamemario had FUE hair transplant at jpplastic.co.kr for 2.5 million won (close to $2,300 or £2000 which is less than half what I paid in the UK).


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## crystalhearts

@MissOrange They quoted me $18,000.00 USD, I thought it was so crazy because I could buy a car or a down payment with that money. Haha, how many grafts did @itsamemario have? 





MissOrange said:


> @crystalhearts is that 18,000,000 won (close to $18,000 USD) or 1,800,000 won (close to $1,800 USD)? 18,000 won is like $18 USD? Lol. @itsamemario had FUE hair transplant at jpplastic.co.kr for 2.5 million won (close to $2,300 or £2000 which is less than half what I paid in the UK).


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## MissOrange

crystalhearts said:


> @MissOrange They quoted me $18,000.00 USD, I thought it was so crazy because I could buy a car or a down payment with that money. Haha, how many grafts did @itsamemario have?


Whatever you do, do NOT pay 18 million won for hair transplant! That is a rip off. Now you know the going rate, you should be able to negotiate a fair price with a clinic in SK that does not overcharge foreigners. @itsamemario wrote a detailed Tpf thread on her SK hair transplant experience which you may wish to read. I think she got a translator for the SK clinic she went to which helps if it is a clinic that mostly caters to locals so can offer low prices to foreigners too with a translator.


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## Chloe115

Hi Miss Orange,

Did you have the revision rhinoplasty or lip lift first?

I've recently had a revision rhinoplasty and I'm considering having an upper lip lift, I'm not sure how long I need to wait between procedures. Did your nose change after the lip lift?


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## maybebaby1980

Hi MissOrange 

I made an account just to ask you a question, what a super star you are!! I am a black woman of age 25 (1980 is a moniker) and like you i have the benefits of genetics but I want to do my best too 

What diet and supplements would you recommend


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## MissOrange

Chloe115 said:


> Hi Miss Orange,
> 
> Did you have the revision rhinoplasty or lip lift first?
> 
> I've recently had a revision rhinoplasty and I'm considering having an upper lip lift, I'm not sure how long I need to wait between procedures. Did your nose change after the lip lift?


Hi @Chloe115, they say to fix a short nose first before you do lip lift. But I was too impatient to get a lip lift after a friend sent me a photo app of what I would look like with a shorter philtrum and decided to leave my nose short and not revise it again. Couldn't afford JW quotes of 11-13 million won for rib rhino revision to make it long. My nose looks less short after philtrum shortening lip lift although the tip is still angled up.


----------



## MissOrange

maybebaby1980 said:


> Hi MissOrange
> 
> I made an account just to ask you a question, what a super star you are!! I am a black woman of age 25 (1980 is a moniker) and like you i have the benefits of genetics but I want to do my best too
> 
> What diet and supplements would you recommend


Hi @maybebaby1980, I think it is important to maintain a healthy BMI so one is not stretching the skin which may expedite facial sagging and jowls later in life when one naturally loses fat and bone mass. We have melanin in our skin which helps protect against UV rays and they say this slows aging by up to 20 years vs fair skinned ladies but aging still catches up with you. Caucasians may get forehead wrinkles and crows feet in their late 20s/early 30s and we get them in our 40s. So there is no escaping the need for Botox and fillers. We just start later.

I take omega 3 fish oils with vitamin D supplements as we hardly get sun in the UK. I also drink probiotics and red bush tea daily (both proven to keep one's weight down). I eat practically everything but just control portion size by eating on small plates. For instance I cut my strawberries in half and spread them on a teacup saucer. It tricks the mind into thinking it is a full plate of strawberries and I do not add sugar or cream. I have weaned myself off the need for sugar but do drink a can of Diet Coke a day. I also drink bottles of still water to hydrate the skin. I try to eat fruit every day...strawberries, blueberries or grapes. I am addicted to carbs...Korean or Chinese food with rice, spaghetti with clams, salmon spaghetti, and if I eat McDonald's it is the happy meal size. Lol. I try very hard to resist the temptation of eating cake and ice cream but do indulge from time to time. If I order Dominos I order it with low fat cheese which seems to work as I can eat 3 slices and not gain any weight! Good luck with your journey on the war against aging! It is a long one so stick with it. I have to decide when to try smas facelift next. Maybe when I am 55 or 60?


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## MissOrange

Here are some photos of me. Guess which one I am the oldest in? Which one is 20s, 40s and 50s? If anyone is 40s or 50s, get yourself over to Korea fast and discover the Fountain of Youth! The answer is I am the oldest in the middle photo! Incredible how Korea reverses aging so much!


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## crystalhearts

MissOrange said:


> Whatever you do, do NOT pay 18 million won for hair transplant! That is a rip off. Now you know the going rate, you should be able to negotiate a fair price with a clinic in SK that does not overcharge foreigners. @itsamemario wrote a detailed Tpf thread on her SK hair transplant experience which you may wish to read. I think she got a translator for the SK clinic she went to which helps if it is a clinic that mostly caters to locals so can offer low prices to foreigners too with a translator.


Thank you so much for looking out for me!! I will definitely keep in mind to not pay that price =) they said I needed like 4000 grafts maybe that's why too  I read her post!! Her results were amazing =) so jealous!! Once again, thank you so much @MissOrange


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## MissOrange

crystalhearts said:


> Thank you so much for looking out for me!! I will definitely keep in mind to not pay that price =) they said I needed like 4000 grafts maybe that's why too  I read her post!! Her results were amazing =) so jealous!! Once again, thank you so much @MissOrange


I looked up my hair follicle transplant records. I had 2000 grafts. Even double that would not even be close to $18,000. Don't be overcharged! Remember there is still a ban on Chinese tour groups to SK which means SK needs your business. I am hearing that China may be banning flights to SK! You are in the best bargaining position.


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## cute_lil_fiend

Hi Una,
Q


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## cute_lil_fiend

Hi Una,

Question for you, being as experienced with fat grafting as you are. Did you experience any of the side effects of fat grafting/liposuction, namely altered sensation, lumpiness or unevenness at the donor site, or lumpiness or uneven retention of fat on the face? If so, how did clinics deal with these?

I'm getting ready for my full face fat graft but super apprehensive about side effects.

TIA for your input!


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## crystalhearts

MissOrange said:


> I looked up my hair follicle transplant records. I had 2000 grafts. Even double that would not even be close to $18,000. Don't be overcharged! Remember there is still a ban on Chinese tour groups to SK which means SK needs your business. I am hearing that China may be banning flights to SK! You are in the best bargaining position.


Oh wow, no way! That's insane! Korea will loose so much business of that happens. I should really look more into hair transplant clinics. I backed out once a couple years ago for hair transplant at a clinic that specializes in women hair transplant. Paid deposit when they said they'll keep my spot but if I opt of it they will give me back the money. So I decided why not! But they never did give back the money when I did opt out of it. Dododooo. But as for now, I'm still thinking about which proedure I should do first or together on the same trip =p


----------



## Gantz

crystalhearts said:


> Oh wow, no way! That's insane! Korea will loose so much business of that happens. I should really look more into hair transplant clinics. I backed out once a couple years ago for hair transplant at a clinic that specializes in women hair transplant. Paid deposit when they said they'll keep my spot but if I opt of it they will give me back the money. So I decided why not! But they never did give back the money when I did opt out of it. Dododooo. But as for now, I'm still thinking about which proedure I should do first or together on the same trip =p


Woah! Which clinic was that so that I never visit them? Such dishonesty is a major turn off and says something about how they would treat you if ever in need


----------



## MissOrange

cute_lil_fiend said:


> Hi Una,
> 
> Question for you, being as experienced with fat grafting as you are. Did you experience any of the side effects of fat grafting/liposuction, namely altered sensation, lumpiness or unevenness at the donor site, or lumpiness or uneven retention of fat on the face? If so, how did clinics deal with these?
> 
> I'm getting ready for my full face fat graft but super apprehensive about side effects.
> 
> TIA for your input!


Hi @cute_lil_fiend,
I had no altered sensation. I did notice a little lump on the left side of my chin with the third fat graft but it has gone now. The donor thigh site was lumpy and uneven afterwards but then DA did not put bandages or tape on my thigh for the first and third fat graft. Insist the donor site is taped or bandaged to prevent lumpiness. Thankfully the uneven lumpiness in the thigh also got better eventually. If this happens be really patient and give it time for the body to correct itself after vigorous liposuction from the donor site. There was no uneven fat retention on the face. The worst was the extensive bruising at the donor site with fat grafting at DA which lasted weeks! Forget going on a beach holiday for at least a month after facial fat grafting. I think the first 24 hours post facial fat grafting is the shock of your life with the facial distortion, bruising and swelling. I guarantee you will cry! Then it gets better but sadly it doesn't even last for a year. You may end up flying back and forth for facial fat graft top ups before you decide to go back to dermal fillers like I have after 3 facial fat grafts at DA all in less than one year! If you have good elasticity then go for it but if your skin easily sags then don't as the fat stretches the skin and when it reabsorbs the skin droops.


----------



## MissOrange

crystalhearts said:


> Oh wow, no way! That's insane! Korea will loose so much business of that happens. I should really look more into hair transplant clinics. I backed out once a couple years ago for hair transplant at a clinic that specializes in women hair transplant. Paid deposit when they said they'll keep my spot but if I opt of it they will give me back the money. So I decided why not! But they never did give back the money when I did opt out of it. Dododooo. But as for now, I'm still thinking about which proedure I should do first or together on the same trip =p


Wow, I demanded my deposit back from Cinderella in person as I had given them plenty of notice of cancellation and the manager paid it back in won, not dollars though. Keep all kakao screenshots of promises to give you back the money if you opt out in future as evidence to confront the clinic manager. As the hair transplant clinic you went to seems to overcharge foreigners it doesn't surprise me that they may also hold your deposit to ransom! You could name and shame this clinic so others are not duped.


----------



## Luv n bags

You look fantastic for your age.  My question is in regards to the neck area.  That is the true giveaway of a person's age.  Have you done anything to your neck? Any plans to do anything?


----------



## Gats

tigertrixie said:


> You look fantastic for your age.  My question is in regards to the neck area.  That is the true giveaway of a person's age.  Have you done anything to your neck? Any plans to do anything?



I'd like to request MissOrange talk about hands too as that's a body part that can give away your age.


----------



## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> You look fantastic for your age.  My question is in regards to the neck area.  That is the true giveaway of a person's age.  Have you done anything to your neck? Any plans to do anything?


Hi @tigertrixie, good question! I guess when I hit 60s I shall look into a face and necklift. As long as I do not get too skinny, there should be some fat on my neck to hide my true age! .

@Gats the same applies to hands. When women work out or lose too much weight, the tendons in the hand become more prominent which is aging. Also sun exposure can lead to brown liver spots on the hands and face. This of course is aging so one has to remember to apply sun screen to the back of your hands! Living in the UK protects me from sun exposure as we hardly get any sun!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on eyebrow tattooing. This is another anti aging measure. As we age, our eyebrows thin and may even be absent if we have over plucked the brow during our lifetime. Young gals have full eyebrows. MVP clinic in Korea use a tattooist who only charges approx. 200,000-250,000 won for eyebrow tattooing which is about $200. In the UK prices are closer to £400-500! Tattooing usually lasts 1-2 years and therefore needs top up every 1-2 years. Top ups in the UK are about £250. Here is a photo of me today after eyebrow tattooing. In the UK they prefer to create an arched western look and in Korea a more straight brow. I tried to request a straight brow but the UK technician is more comfortable creating a western brow.


----------



## Enqi

MissOrange said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.
> 
> 1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!
> 
> 2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.
> 
> 3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.
> 
> 4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.
> 
> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.
> 
> Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!




Dear miss orange, may I know, if you have advice regarding Korea hair transplant ? Thank you!


----------



## MissOrange

Enqi said:


> Dear miss orange, may I know, if you have advice regarding Korea hair transplant ? Thank you!


Hi @Enqi, I only know of @itsamemario who had successful FUE hair transplant at jpplastic.co.kr for 2.5 million won in Korea. She wrote a separate review.


----------



## MissOrange

@tigertrixie and @Gats I have taken a photo of my neck and my hand just now. Never thought to look for signs of aging there! Not bad for my true age. I need to change the shape of my acrylic nails as it is very dated and 1990s to have round red long nails. Maybe I should try short and clear or even blue! My neck has 2 lines around the neck. Will keep an eye on it.


----------



## Enqi

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Enqi, I only know of @itsamemario who had successful FUE hair transplant at jpplastic.co.kr for 2.5 million won in Korea. She wrote a separate review.


Thank you so much! I hope she gets in touch with me  you mentioned you did the same in U.K.? Are you ok to share with me how it is and pic of results?


----------



## luxemininalist

MissOrange said:


> A year and a half later my hairline looked much improved and younger! Come back Hugh Grant! Can I have another selfie photo! I look better now. Lol.


Hi MissOrange, you look fantastic! Could I send you a PM re: your general experience re: fat grafting? I am considering going to Seoul for fat grafting and am so confused with all the different clinics/doctors out there. Is there a particular doctor you rec at MVP? Must the donor site be the thigh area? I have excessive tummy fat that I would like to get rid of lol.


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> @tigertrixie and @Gats I have taken a photo of my neck and my hand just now. Never thought to look for signs of aging there! Not bad for my true age. I need to change the shape of my acrylic nails as it is very dated and 1990s to have round red long nails. Maybe I should try short and clear or even blue! My neck has 2 lines around the neck. Will keep an eye on it.



Thanks for the response.  What I meant is you can tell a persons age when you compare their face to their neck (as one unit) versus breaking it up by body parts.  Just like Hollywood actresses who have facelifts and look decades younger, but their neck isn't as plump and smooth as their face looks.  KWIM? 

Your face may look like it is in its 20's, but your neck will tell your true age.  Unless you start to fat graft and lift the neck area too.  I guess I wonder when and where you stop with all these procedures, cause old man time still marches on.  

Your face looks greats, but how do you look if someone else takes the picture from a distance?


----------



## Gats

@MissOrange, nice hands too! Some women lose volume there so they'd need filler/fg to restore it to avoid that bony look.



joslynn said:


> Hi MissOrange, you look fantastic! Could I send you a PM re: your general experience re: fat grafting? I am considering going to Seoul for fat grafting and am so confused with all the different clinics/doctors out there. Is there a particular doctor you rec at MVP? Must the donor site be the thigh area? I have excessive tummy fat that I would like to get rid of lol.



@joslynn, one tip I've heard is the donor fat will behave the same way, so if you put on weight more easily on your stomach, then it will behave the same way on your face, so you could see weight gain on your face easier after fg. If you want to reduce your stomach fat, I'd just get lipo as they take out a very small amount for face fg.


----------



## maybebaby1980

tigertrixie said:


> Thanks for the response.  What I meant is you can tell a persons age when you compare their face to their neck (as one unit) versus breaking it up by body parts.  Just like Hollywood actresses who have facelifts and look decades younger, but their neck isn't as plump and smooth as their face looks.  KWIM?
> 
> Your face may look like it is in its 20's, but your neck will tell your true age.  Unless you start to fat graft and lift the neck area too.  I guess I wonder when and where you stop with all these procedures, cause old man time still marches on.
> 
> Your face looks greats, but how do you look if someone else takes the picture from a distance?



Why exactly should this woman have to supply you with different photos of herself from different angles...? I'd advise you to enjoy her thread and read it instead of requesting her to post various photos to prove what exactly ?

The hollywood actresses you name are white women, she is Asian.


----------



## maybebaby1980

MissOrange said:


> Hi @maybebaby1980, I think it is important to maintain a healthy BMI so one is not stretching the skin which may expedite facial sagging and jowls later in life when one naturally loses fat and bone mass. We have melanin in our skin which helps protect against UV rays and they say this slows aging by up to 20 years vs fair skinned ladies but aging still catches up with you. Caucasians may get forehead wrinkles and crows feet in their late 20s/early 30s and we get them in our 40s. So there is no escaping the need for Botox and fillers. We just start later.
> 
> I take omega 3 fish oils with vitamin D supplements as we hardly get sun in the UK. I also drink probiotics and red bush tea daily (both proven to keep one's weight down). I eat practically everything but just control portion size by eating on small plates. For instance I cut my strawberries in half and spread them on a teacup saucer. It tricks the mind into thinking it is a full plate of strawberries and I do not add sugar or cream. I have weaned myself off the need for sugar but do drink a can of Diet Coke a day. I also drink bottles of still water to hydrate the skin. I try to eat fruit every day...strawberries, blueberries or grapes. I am addicted to carbs...Korean or Chinese food with rice, spaghetti with clams, salmon spaghetti, and if I eat McDonald's it is the happy meal size. Lol. I try very hard to resist the temptation of eating cake and ice cream but do indulge from time to time. If I order Dominos I order it with low fat cheese which seems to work as I can eat 3 slices and not gain any weight! Good luck with your journey on the war against aging! It is a long one so stick with it. I have to decide when to try smas facelift next. Maybe when I am 55 or 60?



Thank you so much  You're amazing!


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> @MissOrange, nice hands too! Some women lose volume there so they'd need filler/fg to restore it to avoid that bony look.
> 
> 
> 
> @joslynn, one tip I've heard is the donor fat will behave the same way, so if you put on weight more easily on your stomach, then it will behave the same way on your face, so you could see weight gain on your face easier after fg. If you want to reduce your stomach fat, I'd just get lipo as they take out a very small amount for face fg.


I agree with @Gats, this fat graft on my face is from my thighs and yep I naturally put on weight on my thighs! I called them thunder thighs in my teens. This means that even a weight fluctuation of 2-3 lbs now all goes to my face with its thigh fat cells! @joslynn for the eyelid top up, Dr Seo from MVP took fat from my tummy around my belly button. I guess you can request where you want the donor fat cells from, ie inner thighs or tummy. They don't take much fat out like proper liposuction. For fat grafting they take 30-50 ccs.


----------



## MissOrange

Enqi said:


> Thank you so much! I hope she gets in touch with me  you mentioned you did the same in U.K.? Are you ok to share with me how it is and pic of results?


Hi @Enqi, read page 8 of my thread. I added my hair transplant photo and wrote of my UK experience there. It looks painful but it isn't. Good luck! It really does help when hair loss kicks in with ageing.


----------



## Luv n bags

maybebaby1980 said:


> Why exactly should this woman have to supply you with different photos of herself from different angles...? I'd advise you to enjoy her thread and read it instead of requesting her to post various photos to prove what exactly ?
> 
> The hollywood actresses you name are white women, she is Asian.



You don't know to whom I was referring to, nor was I requesting anymore pictures.  I was stating the obvious.  Get a life!


----------



## MissOrange

I have found a photo of me in my 20s and it looks like I always had 2 horizontal ligature like lines on my neck! Uhoh maybe I was hanged in a former life! . Here is another comparison with me in my 50s on the left and 20s on the right. Facial fat grafting and no face lift has made a HUGE difference in turning back the hands of time. If you do go down the facial fat graft path, just bear in mind that you may have to try to keep your weight static or else you will end up with a balloon face as thigh or tummy fat cells are thicker and fill up fast!


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> I have found a photo of me in my 20s and it looks like I always had 2 horizontal ligature like lines on my neck! Uhoh maybe I was hanged in a former life! . Here is another comparison with me in my 50s on the left and 20s on the right. Facial fat grafting and no face lift has made a HUGE difference in turning back the hands of time. If you do go down the facial fat graft path, just bear in mind that you may have to try to keep your weight static or else you will end up with a balloon face as thigh or tummy fat cells are thicker and fill up fast!



I think you look fantastic and hope you didn't think I was trying to bash you.  Enjoy your look and keep educating us on your journey!


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a full figure beach photo taken this month. Hope this still defies my true 50s age! My hair tip is try to only get a trim twice a year and not every 6 weeks. Once I did not get a trim for 2 years solid and my hair grew to my bottom! I think hair loves to just grow without all these frequent haircuts. Just my thoughts. Long hair equates to youth.


----------



## kitty nyc

You look amazing for your age, especially love this shot of you rocking a bikini on the beach!


----------



## mermaidrhapsody

MissOrange you look fabulous in that photo on the beach! I aim to look as good as you do when I am 50 as you have shown it is possible. I was reading through some of your posts and have a few questions: 

1. You mentioned that you have had several double eyelid surgeries over the years as eyelids sag with age. Would you mind sharing at which ages you got the surgeries done and how do you prevent multiple incision lines/scarring? I have natural double eyelids but have had incisional ptosis as I was born with excess eyelid skin and fat that slightly covered my pupils, and the doctor said I may have to get surgery again as I age, so your reply will be very helpful to me.

2. A few pages back you advised against fat graft for skin that lacks elasticity as it is likely to sag after the fat graft absorbs. Do you have any advice on how to determine if the skin is elastic enough? Or perhaps if in doubt it might be better to stay away from fat graft >.< Also in your experience, do facial fillers also cause the skin to stretch and then sag once they dissipate? 

Thank you!


----------



## MissOrange

mermaidrhapsody said:


> MissOrange you look fabulous in that photo on the beach! I aim to look as good as you do when I am 50 as you have shown it is possible. I was reading through some of your posts and have a few questions:
> 
> 1. You mentioned that you have had several double eyelid surgeries over the years as eyelids sag with age. Would you mind sharing at which ages you got the surgeries done and how do you prevent multiple incision lines/scarring? I have natural double eyelids but have had incisional ptosis as I was born with excess eyelid skin and fat that slightly covered my pupils, and the doctor said I may have to get surgery again as I age, so your reply will be very helpful to me.
> 
> 2. A few pages back you advised against fat graft for skin that lacks elasticity as it is likely to sag after the fat graft absorbs. Do you have any advice on how to determine if the skin is elastic enough? Or perhaps if in doubt it might be better to stay away from fat graft >.< Also in your experience, do facial fillers also cause the skin to stretch and then sag once they dissipate?
> 
> Thank you!


Hi @mermaidrhapsody,

Thank you for taking the time to read my 20 year PS journey. I had my first upper lid blepharoplasty at age 32, second at 38 but had that redone at age 39 as it was asymmetrical, then at 40 had lower blepharoplasty and at 42 my 4th upper lid blepharoplasty when my lids became wrinkly and the crease dropped again. This time he used surgical glue and it stayed for much longer. My 5th upper lid bleph was revision incision DES in South Korea with fat graft last year. I think cutting excess skin and filling it out with fat graft would have saved me a couple of blepharoplasties in the past had I known about fat grafting to the lids. I only learned about this last year.

As for the second question, I guess if the skin under your upper arms sags or the lower face has neck jowls that do not disappear with weight loss then it may be a sign of losing elasticity. The amount of dermal fillers injected is in the region of 1 ml vs fat grafting 30-50 ccs so a lot more. Fillers should be fine. Then progress to fat grafting.


----------



## MissOrange

kitty nyc said:


> You look amazing for your age, especially love this shot of you rocking a bikini on the beach!


Aww thanks @kitty nyc! I only get to wear a bikini once a year on summer vacation! Had no idea I had a nice bikini figure as it is always covered up in cold rainy UK! I think I can still pass as 20s even in a bikini. . Amazing how I have not had a facelift yet, just fat injections to my face. Brits ask me if I have had lots of face lifts to look this young at my age. They look perplexed when I say no, just had my thigh fat injected into my face! Lol.


----------



## maybebaby1980

Hi Miss Orange 

May I ask how long you stay in Korea when you go just for FG? I'm planning my first trip for FG and would love to know how many days to go for

Thank you


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Aww thanks @kitty nyc! I only get to wear a bikini once a year on summer vacation! Had no idea I had a nice bikini figure as it is always covered up in cold rainy UK! I think I can still pass as 20s even in a bikini. . Amazing how I have not had a facelift yet, just fat injections to my face. Brits ask me if I have had lots of face lifts to look this young at my age. They look perplexed when I say no, just had my thigh fat injected into my face! Lol.



You look awesome!

How long was your recovery when you had FG in your face? Did you have to stay indoors, or were you able to go out without looking bad?


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> Aww thanks @kitty nyc! I only get to wear a bikini once a year on summer vacation! Had no idea I had a nice bikini figure as it is always covered up in cold rainy UK! I think I can still pass as 20s even in a bikini. . Amazing how I have not had a facelift yet, just fat injections to my face. Brits ask me if I have had lots of face lifts to look this young at my age. They look perplexed when I say no, just had my thigh fat injected into my face! Lol.





MissOrange said:


> Aww thanks @kitty nyc! I only get to wear a bikini once a year on summer vacation! Had no idea I had a nice bikini figure as it is always covered up in cold rainy UK! I think I can still pass as 20s even in a bikini. . Amazing how I have not had a facelift yet, just fat injections to my face. Brits ask me if I have had lots of face lifts to look this young at my age. They look perplexed when I say no, just had my thigh fat injected into my face! Lol.



WOW you look like a model!!


----------



## European95xx_

I have a question for you Miss Orange 
You really look good with just fg, but I was wondering would you advise either fg or cheek implants to someone who burns fat pretty fast? I have a veeery fast metabolism and my face and upper part of my body are the skinniest. My lower part is also slim, but less skinny. Lately I went vegan and I lost even more fat on my face so I started wondering if I´ll look better with cheek implants. Thanks in advance


----------



## MissOrange

maybebaby1980 said:


> Hi Miss Orange
> 
> May I ask how long you stay in Korea when you go just for FG? I'm planning my first trip for FG and would love to know how many days to go for
> 
> Thank you


Hi @maybebaby1980,

I would say at least 1 week as you need to get past day 3-4 massive facial swelling and distortion with facial fat grafting.  You then fly home on day 7 but be prepared for stares as you look like a domestic violence victim covered in bruises and mild swelling. Bring a cap, shades, face mask and camouflage makeup for the bruises. And be prepared to cry on days 1-4.


----------



## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> You look awesome!
> 
> How long was your recovery when you had FG in your face? Did you have to stay indoors, or were you able to go out without looking bad?


Hi @tigertrixie 
Good question, you can't go back to work after a week as you basically have to wait for all the bruising and swelling to disappear. This can take 2-3 weeks. You can still go out but cover up with a baseball cap, sunglasses, foundation makeup and pretend to be invisible. Think Bride of Wildenstein scary looking. Then just like with childbirth the face transforms to young and beautiful and you forget the deformed swollen face you had for a week+.


----------



## MissOrange

European95xx_ said:


> I have a question for you Miss Orange
> You really look good with just fg, but I was wondering would you advise either fg or cheek implants to someone who burns fat pretty fast? I have a veeery fast metabolism and my face and upper part of my body are the skinniest. My lower part is also slim, but less skinny. Lately I went vegan and I lost even more fat on my face so I started wondering if I´ll look better with cheek implants. Thanks in advance


Hi @European95xx_ ,

I would suggest dermal fillers as you burn fat fast. Some get silicone nasolabial implants for nasolabial folds. Not too familiar with cheek implants. The concern is implants might migrate and move or get infected. Fat to the forehead seems to last if you get Botox so you don't wrinkle or move the brow.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a passenger seat selfie from last weekend with the sunlight on my face. I still can't believe I look so young. It certainly gives one an identity crisis when you are 50s but look 20s! Be prepared for people to treat you like a young girl and not the mature adult you are. Really strange when I know I am older than people I meet but they treat me like I don't know anything as a young girl! Go figure.


----------



## MissOrange

It might have something to do with the young teen clothes I have been buying...


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Hi @tigertrixie
> Good question, you can't go back to work after a week as you basically have to wait for all the bruising and swelling to disappear. This can take 2-3 weeks. You can still go out but cover up with a baseball cap, sunglasses, foundation makeup and pretend to be invisible. Think Bride of Wildenstein scary looking. Then just like with childbirth the face transforms to young and beautiful and you forget the deformed swollen face you had for a week+.



Thank you for your response! I had no idea this procedure was available and the terrific outcome from it.


----------



## mlydzz

lol that pose tho.


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> It might have something to do with the young teen clothes I have been buying...


you look very cute! i am also dressing as young as possible while i can.
ditch the old lady shoes though, that's a dead give away for women our age


----------



## MissOrange

loves said:


> you look very cute! i am also dressing as young as possible while i can.
> ditch the old lady shoes though, that's a dead give away for women our age


Good point @loves! I looked younger wearing my daughter's trainers in Tokyo last year. We swapped shoes so I could keep up with my daughters walking. I need to have a close look at young people's shoe wear and nails! I think young people have short nails and not long acrylics? I am still stuck in the 90s wearing red painted long acrylics! Total giveaway! I noticed by changing my sunglasses to a $20 trendy pair on sale at Lotte department store in Seoul, I looked much younger than wearing a Western Bulgari pair of oversized brown sunglasses from the Harrods sale. I shall sell the Bulgari pair as I never wear it. SK sell the best sunglasses to suit Asian faces!


----------



## loves

i do see a lot of long nails and nail art on the young these days but they look good because they're young. personally i just don't want to channel dragon lady vibes with them long. short nails in red are a classic and suit every age (olivia palermo almost always wears only short square red nails).
Interesting sunglasses discovery, I'll have to pop by a cheaper trendier place and try some out.


MissOrange said:


> Good point @loves! I looked younger wearing my daughter's trainers in Tokyo last year. We swapped shoes so I could keep up with my daughters walking. I need to have a close look at young people's shoe wear and nails! I think young people have short nails and not long acrylics? I am still stuck in the 90s wearing red painted long acrylics! Total giveaway! I noticed by changing my sunglasses to a $20 trendy pair on sale at Lotte department store in Seoul, I looked much younger than wearing a Western Bulgari pair of oversized brown sunglasses from the Harrods sale. I shall sell the Bulgari pair as I never wear it. SK sell the best sunglasses to suit Asian faces!


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> Hi @European95xx_ ,
> 
> I would suggest dermal fillers as you burn fat fast. Some get silicone nasolabial implants for nasolabial folds. Not too familiar with cheek implants. The concern is implants might migrate and move or get infected. Fat to the forehead seems to last if you get Botox so you don't wrinkle or move the brow.



Thank you for the advice  I am actually 22 so I don´t have to worry about wrinkles yet haha. I´ll consider my options  I just couldn´t resist messaging you because you really look so good and what you said about avoiding too much sun is an advice worth of gold that all the generations can use. I have problematic, acne prone skin so I also try to avoid being too long in the sun.


----------



## MissOrange

European95xx_ said:


> Thank you for the advice  I am actually 22 so I don´t have to worry about wrinkles yet haha. I´ll consider my options  I just couldn´t resist messaging you because you really look so good and what you said about avoiding too much sun is an advice worth of gold that all the generations can use. I have problematic, acne prone skin so I also try to avoid being too long in the sun.


Hi @European95xx_ ,

You mentioned acne prone skin. Try changing your pillow cases twice a week and washing your face frequently with a Korean innisfree brand facial jeju volcanic scrub. It worked on my 22 yo daughter. I think any facial scrub would work though. Benzoyl peroxide is also good. Also try to avoid chocolate and crisps if you like sweets.

Hope that helps.

For young Caucasians wear heavy sunscreen to avoid freckles developing on the face which are actually signs of skin damage from the sun!

If it is really hot and sunny outside, I put so much sunscreen on my face that it looks like white liquid caking my face! No one notices as you don sunglasses and a cap too. Sun damage can cause more wrinkling, skin blemishes and brown liver spots! I have stopped powdering my face as when you age your face loses moisture and the foundation looks dry and cakey with powder. Funnily I had oily facial skin in my 20s and now I have dry facial skin in my 50s so moisturise frequently.

It is good to start early with protecting your face from the sun. One of my younger sisters was a sun worshipper and her skin is now completely different from mine. She has lost the soft supple texture and has wide pores and extensive wrinkling. If you hate growing old, start in your teens and protect your face! Sun damage also causes premature skin sagging! Think Japanese Geisha girl and avoid the sun or lather up with 50 spf!

By your 50s the sun damage is already done. I met a group of 50s women and could immediately tell who had been a sunworshipper in the 80s and 90s tanning without sunscreen. That said, you can get chemical peels and scrubs to try to rejuvenate damaged old skin.

P.S. The beach photos took about 15 minutes (had put on sunscreen too) and that was it for sun exposure. Went inside afterwards.


----------



## cute_lil_fiend

MissOrange said:


> I think the first 24 hours post facial fat grafting is the shock of your life with the facial distortion, bruising and swelling. I guarantee you will cry! Then it gets better but sadly it doesn't even last for a year. You may end up flying back and forth for facial fat graft top ups before you decide to go back to dermal fillers like I have after 3 facial fat grafts at DA all in less than one year! If you have good elasticity then go for it but if your skin easily sags then don't as the fat stretches the skin and when it reabsorbs the skin droops.



So are you saying you're done with fat grafting? You're implying that your full face fat grafts haven't lasted very long, that true?
IMO your eyelid fat graft results are still going strong. I've just finished with my fg, so eagerly awaiting the abatement of the swelling and "take" of the fat.


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange, I am truly fascinated by your journey and the transformation.  My question is do you currently have dermal fillers or fg in your face? My undereyes are hollow and can use some plumping up, however, in the US, most docs will not put fillers under the eyes.  I am told the skin is too thin around the eyes.  Is this true where you are located?


----------



## MissOrange

cute_lil_fiend said:


> So are you saying you're done with fat grafting? You're implying that your full face fat grafts haven't lasted very long, that true?
> IMO your eyelid fat graft results are still going strong. I've just finished with my fg, so eagerly awaiting the abatement of the swelling and "take" of the fat.


Congratulations @cute_lil_fiend on getting your fg! Remember days 3-4 are the worst for facial swelling and then it gets better each day. Excited for you! 

My eyelid fat graft at MVP clinic is good. 3 months post top up and retained 90%. My mid to lower face third fat graft at DA did not last past 2 months, so I have dermal fillers in my cheeks and nasolabial area. I think MVP must have used longer lasting prp fat graft and DA not.


----------



## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> MissOrange, I am truly fascinated by your journey and the transformation.  My question is do you currently have dermal fillers or fg in your face? My undereyes are hollow and can use some plumping up, however, in the US, most docs will not put fillers under the eyes.  I am told the skin is too thin around the eyes.  Is this true where you are located?


Hi @tigertrixie,

I have both fat graft and dermal fillers in my face. The mid to lower face 3rd fat graft reabsorbed so I went back to using dermal fillers last month which should last 4-6 months. I would not recommend getting fillers under the eyes. Most try to get rid of eye bags. You are lucky not to have any! Try drinking lots of water and getting more sleep. Sunken eyes are usually a sign of dehydration.


----------



## MissOrange

I have always been bothered by my strong pointy jaw. To think I had to wait for the sonopet invention to have my chin shaved to a softer more feminine jaw. Here is a tv series photo of me at age 40 with a droopy nose tip from ageing and a prominent jaw and a photo of me at 50 after rib rhino and jaw shaving with sonopet in the UK. My request of the UK plastic surgeon was for an improved and beautiful side profile. Looking even younger was a bonus!


----------



## MissOrange

Today a hairdresser in her 20s thought I was her age. Her face dropped in shock when I told her my chronological age. She asked to see my before photos so I went home and started looking back in time to when I was old at 33 looking 50! I never saw the light of day working as a surgeon so it is not sun but mega stress, excessive work hours and lack of sleep that causes premature ageing!!! At age 33 I was working full time as a surgeon for the NHS, mother to 3 children under 5 and spent all my spare time revising for my surgical exams. The photo is on awards day having finally passed. Compare this to the photo of me earlier this month in my 50s, retired and now just a housewife with grown up children! Can you figure out what I have had done? I feel like I have stepped into a time machine and reversed ageing! Really weird experience.


----------



## Gantz

W


MissOrange said:


> Today a hairdresser in her 20s thought I was her age. Her face dropped in shock when I told her my chronological age. She asked to see my before photos so I went home and started looking back in time to when I was old at 33 looking 50! I never saw the light of day working as a surgeon so it is not sun but mega stress, excessive work hours and lack of sleep that causes premature ageing!!! At age 33 I was working full time as a surgeon for the NHS, mother to 3 children under 5 and spent all my spare time revising for my surgical exams. The photo is on awards day having finally passed. Compare this to the photo of me earlier this month in my 50s, retired and now just a housewife with grown up children! Can you figure out what I have had done? I feel like I have stepped into a time machine and reversed ageing! Really weird experience.


Wow you indeed reversed time! The lip philtrum reduction has made a huge difference, the fat graft as well. Thank you for sharing so many photos with the community here, it really helps to understand better with pictures.

Your mouth corners look lifted as well, did you have anything done there as well? Or is it because of the fat that lifted your tissues?


----------



## dannythedragon

MissOrange thank you for sharing your journey could you please share your thoughts on Botox please because we value your experience.


----------



## Luv n bags

Wow! You certainly worked for your retirement and you look young enough to start a new career! Thank you for all your insight.  You are an inspiration to those of us who are on a quest to reverse time.


----------



## MissOrange

Gantz said:


> W
> 
> Wow you indeed reversed time! The lip philtrum reduction has made a huge difference, the fat graft as well. Thank you for sharing so many photos with the community here, it really helps to understand better with pictures.
> 
> Your mouth corners look lifted as well, did you have anything done there as well? Or is it because of the fat that lifted your tissues?


Thanks @Gantz. Miss Mills did a wide bullhorn lip lift which must have lifted the corners of my lips too! There has been no philtrum sagging, now 6 months out! She did a deep tissue incision under my nose and closed in layers so it was not just skin trimming but a proper philtrum reduction/lip lift.


----------



## MissOrange

dannythedragon said:


> MissOrange thank you for sharing your journey could you please share your thoughts on Botox please because we value your experience.


Hi @dannythedragon,

I only discovered Botox in my late 30s! It really works wonders for forehead wrinkles, crows feet around the eyes and even the wrinkles under the eyes! Today a sales assistant said I had no lines on my face at all. The best result is if you end up looking more relaxed. Only thing is it does not last and maintenance Botox needs to be done every 2-3 months when it wears off which all adds up costwise.


----------



## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> Wow! You certainly worked for your retirement and you look young enough to start a new career! Thank you for all your insight.  You are an inspiration to those of us who are on a quest to reverse time.


You're welcome @tigertrixie. I will never forget the 60+ year old lady who told me she felt 28 on the inside but had the face and body of an old lady. I thought to myself, with all the modern plastic surgery procedures in the world, surely there is a way one can reverse time and ageing? How sad for her to feel her soul is 28 but have to look at an old wrinkled tired face every morning in the mirror. If only there was a magic wand that could be waved to turn back time and ageing. I truly think Botox, dermal fillers, fat graft and bullhorn lip lift are miracle treatments! I have yet to try a smas facelift and am also tempted to try zygoma reduction. I felt so sorry for the great Hollywood stars who suffered from ageing as these procedures did not exist in their time...Greta Garbo, Vivien Leigh, Farrah Fawcett, etc. They were all my idols growing up.


----------



## dannythedragon

Thanks @MissOrange. I had FG at Fresh recently. It's a bit early to say but I think the results should be good. Having read your posts I am prepared to return a second and maybe a 3rd time and put on a few lbs to get the full benefit. I'm planning to do botox here (150k KWN) but can you please recommend someone in London for botox because to travel to SK just for that probably doesn't make sense.


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> I have always been bothered by my strong pointy jaw. To think I had to wait for the sonopet invention to have my chin shaved to a softer more feminine jaw. Here is a tv series photo of me at age 40 with a droopy nose tip from ageing and a prominent jaw and a photo of me at 50 after rib rhino and jaw shaving with sonopet in the UK. My request of the UK plastic surgeon was for an improved and beautiful side profile. Looking even younger was a bonus!



i like your jawline. it's not masculine, but it's strong and strong jaws are good. it's great support for the rest of the facial tissues (i liken it to what an underwire bra does for our breastesses)

i actually have a question regarding fat grafts on eye lids. i've noticed my lids are sunken in due to fat loss and am interested to do that.
i was wondering exactly how many fgs do we need there since it's an area that moves constantly and therefore i'm expecting not much to last. what is your experience? did you do it just once or do you find you needed a top up fg again? thanks!


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> Hi @European95xx_ ,
> 
> You mentioned acne prone skin. Try changing your pillow cases twice a week and washing your face frequently with a Korean innisfree brand facial jeju volcanic scrub. It worked on my 22 yo daughter. I think any facial scrub would work though. Benzoyl peroxide is also good. Also try to avoid chocolate and crisps if you like sweets.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> For young Caucasians wear heavy sunscreen to avoid freckles developing on the face which are actually signs of skin damage from the sun!
> 
> If it is really hot and sunny outside, I put so much sunscreen on my face that it looks like white liquid caking my face! No one notices as you don sunglasses and a cap too. Sun damage can cause more wrinkling, skin blemishes and brown liver spots! I have stopped powdering my face as when you age your face loses moisture and the foundation looks dry and cakey with powder. Funnily I had oily facial skin in my 20s and now I have dry facial skin in my 50s so moisturise frequently.
> 
> It is good to start early with protecting your face from the sun. One of my younger sisters was a sun worshipper and her skin is now completely different from mine. She has lost the soft supple texture and has wide pores and extensive wrinkling. If you hate growing old, start in your teens and protect your face! Sun damage also causes premature skin sagging! Think Japanese Geisha girl and avoid the sun or lather up with 50 spf!
> 
> By your 50s the sun damage is already done. I met a group of 50s women and could immediately tell who had been a sunworshipper in the 80s and 90s tanning without sunscreen. That said, you can get chemical peels and scrubs to try to rejuvenate damaged old skin.
> 
> P.S. The beach photos took about 15 minutes (had put on sunscreen too) and that was it for sun exposure. Went inside afterwards.



Thank you again so much for your words of wisdom! 

I had acne prone skin since middle school. Now the situation has gotten better for me because I´ve met an amazing cosmotologist that´s retired, but she still treats her old patients and sometimes treats new ones if she knows that she can help them. The first time she looked at me she complimented my appearance and said that it´s a shame that my skin is so bad. She immediately advised me to stop putting anything on my face. She said that creams and all of that aren´t for ˝sick˝ skin and of course I listened to her and stopped putting anything to my face and after 6 months I can already see the difference. I feel like my skin looks far more healthier. In a way my cosmo is a bit like you. She also advised me to avoid being too long in the sun because my skin is already damaged and sun exposure would only damage it even more. As someone who lives in a mediterranean country it´s hard to resist going to the beach. We have a beautiful sea here and I just adore diving and swimming and all of that. However I go to the beach when the sun is not as strong and I also go to a beach where there´s plenty of shade so I can still enjoy going to the beach, but at the same time protect my skin.  When I was younger I used to like sunbathing, but now when I know how bad it is for the skin I don´t think that I will ever do it again. I have a friend though that likes, how she likes to say, ˝frying herself in the sun like a chicken˝ haha! I keep telling her that she will probably regret it when she gets older, but she just doesn´t care.

I honestly didn´t know that sun damage can even cause premature SAGGING O.O WOW!!! You just opened my eyes even more thank you! 

I´m curious about Asian skin care and have been for a while now. Since I´m still not willing to put anything on my face nor am I advised by my cosmo I can´t try anything out, but I really am curious! I feel like Asian skin care is the best skin care in the world.


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> I have always been bothered by my strong pointy jaw. To think I had to wait for the sonopet invention to have my chin shaved to a softer more feminine jaw. Here is a tv series photo of me at age 40 with a droopy nose tip from ageing and a prominent jaw and a photo of me at 50 after rib rhino and jaw shaving with sonopet in the UK. My request of the UK plastic surgeon was for an improved and beautiful side profile. Looking even younger was a bonus!



Amazing results and very natural too!! I think that this procedure can also be done in Korea now. In a clinic called ˝View˝ they use the ultrasonic device if that´s the same thing.
I also dislike my jaw and chin. That´s why I´m considering getting V line done in Korea.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on anti aging on the inside. I have noticed friends my chronological age or younger getting cancer, autoimmune diseases, heart attack so have been looking into Dr Linus Pauling and high dose vitamin C. He is a double Nobel Prize winner and lived to 93! Apparently taking high dose vitamin C and L-lysine supplements help boost collagen to repair damage to skin and blood vessels. I started today on 2000 mg of vitamin C. Tomorrow I add L-lysine. Currently on vitamin D, omega 3 fish oils, vitamin C and tomorrow adding L-lysine. The logic is that most animals make antioxidant vitamin C in the liver from glucose but humans, apes and guinea pigs cannot make vitamin C so need high doses I.e. over 2000 mgs a day. Linus recommended 6000 mg a day which is contrary to the FDA recommended dose of 85 mg for women. A gorilla has to have 10-12,000 mg a day. Dr Linus Pauling reported that high dose vitamin C allegedly may reverse atherosclerosis, cancer, viral illnesses, etc. It means I have to pass the tall hurdles of 60, 70, 80 and 90 and still look 20s-30s!

In the meantime I have been trying a free sample of Clinique facial scrub and intense moisturiser. My skin feels baby soft. I think any scrub and moisturiser would work. Skin needs a moisturiser!


----------



## buyit

amazing results


----------



## 91hsd

Hi @MissOrange would u be returning to Korea for further procedures? You look really young, congrats!


----------



## MissOrange

91hsd said:


> Hi @MissOrange would u be returning to Korea for further procedures? You look really young, congrats!


Hi @91hsd,

I may have to return to Korea next year if the eyelid fat graft disappears as this is the one area that really shows age if it gets hollow. I am 50:50 as to whether to try zygoma reduction. The dissolvable screws advertised by tlps sound very enticing but 2 people I met had zygoma reduction at tlps and one said no difference and went to DA to redo and the other was not happy. At age 60 I will try a smas facelift or maybe sooner if I do try zygoma reduction for my wide face.


----------



## MissOrange

On day 3 of high dose vitamin C powder you mix in water. So far I have noticed an improvement in memory and super acute hearing ability! I would not recommend 5000 mg in one go as this gave me a bad headache and heartburn. I have decided to stick to 1250 mg of vitamin C a day. I was in bed with the bedroom door closed and yet could hear the key in the front door turn at midnight when my daughter came home! My hearing is now incredibly sharp! But that also means it was too noisy in a restaurant I had dinner at as I could hear everything! I told my husband high dose vitamin C has enhanced my brain power! He could not remember a charge on his bank statement and out of the blue, I suggested he had changed money into euros as the charge was an odd amount. And he remembered yes! So now, not only do I look young on the outside but my brain is going back to when I was 20s and had a photographic memory to be able to study hard! It had suffered on statins recently with a cloudy slowed brain with inability to remember the names of medication or do mental arithmetic, and and now I stay clear of statins. I am trying to lower my cholesterol naturally somehow. I have 20 years to figure out how not to get a stroke as everyone on my father's side died of this. The latest revelation is lipoprotein A levels determine your risk of heart disease or strokes! My level is reducing on omega 3 fish oils.


----------



## dannythedragon

Hi @MissOrange 
Earlier in this thread you mentioned about teeth. I use 
http://www.smilesavershungary.co.uk/
The implant center recently opened a branch in London and doctors and staff fly between London and Budapest. Budapest is where the real deals are to be found and that's where I go. My doctor trained and worked in California and another trained and worked in Manchester. Their clientele seems to be a lot of Brits even expat Brits living in Spain and I met French and Germans as well.
Also you mentioned hair. I am considering prp treatment into the scalp to help with miniaturization. It's still fairly new but there seems to be some promising evidence generally and also from a reliable source. Prp seems to be used in other areas successfully so it makes sense to try it in the scalp. Have a good Sunday.


----------



## MissOrange

dannythedragon said:


> Hi @MissOrange
> Earlier in this thread you mentioned about teeth. I use
> http://www.smilesavershungary.co.uk/
> The implant center recently opened a branch in London and doctors and staff fly between London and Budapest. Budapest is where the real deals are to be found and that's where I go. My doctor trained and worked in California and another trained and worked in Manchester. Their clientele seems to be a lot of Brits even expat Brits living in Spain and I met French and Germans as well.
> Also you mentioned hair. I am considering prp treatment into the scalp to help with miniaturization. It's still fairly new but there seems to be some promising evidence generally and also from a reliable source. Prp seems to be used in other areas successfully so it makes sense to try it in the scalp. Have a good Sunday.


Wow @dannythedragon their prices are amazing. I chose my London based cosmetic dentist as Cindy Jackson went to him for her veneers. But then I read she now flies to Hungary for procedures. I never explored Hungary. There are ads in the London metro newspaper for Hungary dentistry but I was always scared to try. Good to hear you had a great experience there. Over here it is basically £1000 per tooth veneer! What is the name of your dentists you had? Results are usually dependent on cosmetic dentistry skill so important to know the names of good dentists rather than just the clinic.

Yes hearing more and more about prp to the scalp for hair growth. Would be a lot cheaper than hair transplant!


----------



## dannythedragon

hi @MissOrange
I refuse to be ripped off with prices like that in London.
The name is Implant Center with branches in Budapest and Farringdon and the name of my dentist is Dr Zsuzsanna Juhasz. I just call her Dr Zsusanna. I've seen her in Farringdon for consultation and the work was carried out in Buda.
http://www.smilesavershungary.co.uk...implant-centre-staff/dr-zsuzsanna-juhasz-dds/
I think though all their staff are equally competent and lovely.
They are a high end clinic in Budapest  so get well to do Hungarians though their prices make  foreigners want to do the journey. You get picked up and dropped back to airport/hotel by their drivers if you choose a hotel from their list. Having someone with your name on a board greeting you at an airport arrival exit that you have never been to before is a nice touch. Just a small thing to consider, due to the recession the far right movement has more support and non whites may encounter a bit of racist chat but I wouldn't let this stop me though but probably with you you'll just get men drooling over you lol. I've used them twice and will go back. Also 6/12 month check I will very likely go to their Farringdon branch. Let me know if you want more details here or privately. What is the name of person who does your Botox and how much because I'm still looking for someone in London?


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> Hi @91hsd,
> 
> I may have to return to Korea next year if the eyelid fat graft disappears as this is the one area that really shows age if it gets hollow. I am 50:50 as to whether to try zygoma reduction. The dissolvable screws advertised by tlps sound very enticing but 2 people I met had zygoma reduction at tlps and one said no difference and went to DA to redo and the other was not happy. At age 60 I will try a smas facelift or maybe sooner if I do try zygoma reduction for my wide face.



Hey Miss Orange can you tell me if these people got V line surgery along with zygoma reduction or just zygoma reduction alone? Did they ask for more natural results? I´ve heard that DA can make dramatic results if you ask them.


----------



## MissOrange

European95xx_ said:


> Hey Miss Orange can you tell me if these people got V line surgery along with zygoma reduction or just zygoma reduction alone? Did they ask for more natural results? I´ve heard that DA can make dramatic results if you ask them.


Hi @European95xx,
I only met the Caucasian guy after he had zygoma reduction at DA and his cheeks were definitely dramatically smaller than his before photo but he went back to Dr Lee and was operated on again as he felt it was asymmetric. He let me feel the screw under his skin. After the horrible GA experience at DA, I am too scared to undergo any procedure there which involves GA as I literally thought I was going to die from an anaesthetic complication! I had trouble breathing when I awoke! Scared me to death and even their consent form says you may feel 'horrible' with GA! I have had GA in the UK with no problems.

I saw a before and after of an American girl who had v line at TLPS and her result was amazing. Very dramatic and natural. I have yet to see a zygoma reduction that is good enough at any clinic in SK for me to try personally.


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> Hi @European95xx,
> I only met the Caucasian guy after he had zygoma reduction at DA and his cheeks were definitely dramatically smaller than his before photo but he went back to Dr Lee and was operated on again as he felt it was asymmetric. He let me feel the screw under his skin. After the horrible GA experience at DA, I am too scared to undergo any procedure there which involves GA as I literally thought I was going to die from an anaesthetic complication! I had trouble breathing when I awoke! Scared me to death and even their consent form says you may feel 'horrible' with GA! I have had GA in the UK with no problems.
> 
> I saw a before and after of an American girl who had v line at TLPS and her result was amazing. Very dramatic and natural. I have yet to see a zygoma reduction that is good enough at any clinic in SK for me to try personally.



Like always, thanks so much for your help and advices.
I CAN´T believe what happened to you at DA with their GA D::: I thought DA was the safest clinic out thereeee..I e-mailed them before and they seemed pretty trustworthy and also didn´t try to sell me what they thought I don´t need from the photos I´ve sent them.
I guess every clinic has its pros and cons. I feel like not everyone will be 100% satisfied. Not sure if that´s even possible. Surgeons are also only human. 
I´m glad that something worse didn´t happen to you though! Thanks for sharing your experience. I´ll definitely keep this in mind.

Do you know anything about a clinic called View? I also heard mixed reviews.


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @European95xx_ ,

A girl who went to View sent me her botched des photo so I crossed off View over a year ago. IMO the safe clinics are mvp, gng, smps, and april31 if you get Dr Kim and not a swap. DA is now hit and miss as my second fat graft there went perfectly (twilight and not GA) but my third was a nightmare GA experience and the demand for even more money than what we had agreed was truly awful.


----------



## heylo

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on anti aging on the inside. I have noticed friends my chronological age or younger getting cancer, autoimmune diseases, heart attack so have been looking into Dr Linus Pauling and high dose vitamin C. He is a double Nobel Prize winner and lived to 93! Apparently taking high dose vitamin C and L-lysine supplements help boost collagen to repair damage to skin and blood vessels. I started today on 2000 mg of vitamin C. Tomorrow I add L-lysine. Currently on vitamin D, omega 3 fish oils, vitamin C and tomorrow adding L-lysine. The logic is that most animals make antioxidant vitamin C in the liver from glucose but humans, apes and guinea pigs cannot make vitamin C so need high doses I.e. over 2000 mgs a day. Linus recommended 6000 mg a day which is contrary to the FDA recommended dose of 85 mg for women. A gorilla has to have 10-12,000 mg a day. Dr Linus Pauling reported that high dose vitamin C allegedly may reverse atherosclerosis, cancer, viral illnesses, etc. It means I have to pass the tall hurdles of 60, 70, 80 and 90 and still look 20s-30s!
> 
> In the meantime I have been trying a free sample of Clinique facial scrub and intense moisturiser. My skin feels baby soft. I think any scrub and moisturiser would work. Skin needs a moisturiser!



Have you tried IV vitamin C, apparently the results are amazing. I am thinking of trying IV vitamins soon. Koreans have their "Cindarella" injections with glutathione but I've read about many more being offered, even in Europe.


----------



## MissOrange

heylo said:


> Have you tried IV vitamin C, apparently the results are amazing. I am thinking of trying IV vitamins soon. Koreans have their "Cindarella" injections with glutathione but I've read about many more being offered, even in Europe.


Hi @heylo,

I haven't tried IV vitamin C. MVP clinic gave me IV vitamins postop but I think that was vitamin K to reduce bruising/swelling? It has now been 4 months since my eyelid fat graft top up at MVP and the eyes/eyelids still look good. It has been 15 months since revision des at MVP clinic. With all the eating on family holidays, I now weigh over 104 lbs! Somehow my face looks ok? Hasn't ballooned as DA injected very little fat the third time into my lower face which disappeared within a few weeks. I guess my natural fat has filled out my lower face from gaining 5 lbs but I am not comfortable weighing this much!

Today's photos. One with a filter and one without. I am really noticing the big difference between how I look and how people in their 50s and 60s look. I think my husband is feeling it is strange I look under half his age! A word of warning. I am still trying to adjust to life looking in my 20s and how people treat me differently than when I looked older. Rather unsettling psychologically. For instance I went to a social and young boys in their 20s (my daughters' ages) tried to chat me up thinking I am their age but when I chat with men my age in their 50s, they look so much older I feel strange like talking to a grandparent or parent. Thank goodness I am married and don't have to date! I am so confused.


----------



## catelet

You look amazing! Very inspiring and informative.  I wish I could use botox for crow's feet; but I've tried it a few times and although it got rid of crow's feet it makes a puffy area on my cheeks--which makes me look older and each time I had to wait months for it to go away, so it's not worth it for me. I told the last 2 injectors (one a PS, one a nurse) about this and they each assured me that with their precise injection, that it wouldn't occur again. But sure enough, it did, so I just don't do botox but I envy those who can use it with success (like most people it seems).

I read that Joan Rivers used collagen in the crow's feet area. Maybe I'll try that someday in the future or maybe fat?  Hmm. My temples are also hollowing.


----------



## Alara

omg everything you did looks amazing. hows the scar of the lip lift? Im thinking of this procedure, but so worried of the scar...
and slighltly gonna go off topic here but I'm going to second everything you said about DAPRS I went in there for whitening laser and they tried to sell me a vitamin c serum for around 200$ don't remember how much in KRW... it's just a damn serum for the love of god how does it cost more than the laser lmao.


----------



## cute_lil_fiend

Alara said:


> ...and slighltly gonna go off topic here but I'm going to second everything you said about DAPRS I went in there for whitening laser and they tried to sell me a vitamin c serum for around 200$ don't remember how much in KRW... it's just a damn serum for the love of god how does it cost more than the laser lmao.


Yas! And this is why I like skin care brands like The Ordinary so much. I could care less for the marketing bullsh*t and fancy packaging, just give me the actives and I'll be a happy camper.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> You look amazing! Very inspiring and informative.  I wish I could use botox for crow's feet; but I've tried it a few times and although it got rid of crow's feet it makes a puffy area on my cheeks--which makes me look older and each time I had to wait months for it to go away, so it's not worth it for me. I told the last 2 injectors (one a PS, one a nurse) about this and they each assured me that with their precise injection, that it wouldn't occur again. But sure enough, it did, so I just don't do botox but I envy those who can use it with success (like most people it seems).
> 
> I read that Joan Rivers used collagen in the crow's feet area. Maybe I'll try that someday in the future or maybe fat?  Hmm. My temples are also hollowing.


Hi @catelet,

Have you tried xeomin type of botox? It might work better for your crow's feet. Really sorry to hear each time it did not work out. How frustrating and there is the cost paid too! Dermal fillers or fat grafting is used for temple hollowing. I only had fat graft once to my temples and forehead and no need for top ups! Just have one overfill and look like frankenstein once.


----------



## MissOrange

Alara said:


> omg everything you did looks amazing. hows the scar of the lip lift? Im thinking of this procedure, but so worried of the scar...
> and slighltly gonna go off topic here but I'm going to second everything you said about DAPRS I went in there for whitening laser and they tried to sell me a vitamin c serum for around 200$ don't remember how much in KRW... it's just a damn serum for the love of god how does it cost more than the laser lmao.


Hi @Alara, 

The bullhorn philtrum scar is a visible keloid. I have to apply Shiseido foundation to camouflage it. I guess that is the downside of this procedure. But at my age, I would trade a scar for reversing aging any day!


----------



## MissOrange

I know you would probably like to delete your old and ugly photos but if you keep a few, it is nice to compare b&a's. Here are a couple of photos on my wedding day in my late 20s before any plastic surgery. I am trying to decide if plastic surgery made me look younger and the same or younger and like a completely different person? I weighed 99 lbs in the photos.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on acne. Some readers have commented on my good skin. I took it for granted, until I took ezetrol for high cholesterol and the second day broke out in acne all over my face! I had never had acne in 37 years, ie only as a teen at age 14! I immediately stopped ezetrol (discovered acne has been reported to the fda as a side effect) and hoped by the next day it would be gone but instead it got worse! So I went to my GP who called my face alarming and got a prescription for doxycycline antibiotic 100 mg dosage. I took this for 4 days and washed with dettol antibacterial wash meant for hands but applied to my face 3-4 times a day and on the worst day (when I looked like crater face) applied hydrocortisone 1% steroid cream twice a day. Miraculously in 4 days, ie today, the acne is 90% gone and should be all gone by tomorrow day 5. I have been housebound for the past week due to my acne ruined face so now am finally okay to go out. Here are the photos of how acne started, got worse and then got better all in the course of 4 days of treatment. I saw many girls in SK pay lots for painful laser treatments for their acne and I mean they were in immense pain afterwards! Even one guy was in awful pain. Perhaps try tackling it in a different way? Acne is a bacterial infection, and it makes sense to take strong antibiotics, wash with antibacterial soaps and use an antiinflammatory steroid cream too. When I wanted to reverse aging, I certainly did not want to relive my awkward teen years at age 14! Hope this helps.


----------



## caro89

dannythedragon said:


> Thanks @MissOrange. I had FG at Fresh recently. It's a bit early to say but I think the results should be good. Having read your posts I am prepared to return a second and maybe a 3rd time and put on a few lbs to get the full benefit. I'm planning to do botox here (150k KWN) but can you please recommend someone in London for botox because to travel to SK just for that probably doesn't make sense.


Hey! I visited several clinics for face fat grafting and I liked Fresh. I'm now searching more in order to make my decision. It's not easy at all! I'm 27 but I lost alot of fat on the face due to weight loose. I gained back the weight but my cheeks are stil abit sunken . Can you please give an update on your face graft at Fresh? How much fat is still on the face? You did face graft with PRP?  Are you happy with the results until now? When I consulted with Fresh, they told me it was with PRP.


----------



## dannythedragon

Yes, PRP. It's only been 1 month for me and it takes 3 months to see the final results however I want some more on my upper eyelids but they told me I had to come back anyway when I went there first time, so there are no surprises. (2nd top up is free)
Overall I'm happy with them. They are a good clinic. As @MissOrange and others say you have to be prepared to go back 1-3 times for FG. (Or more sometimes!)

e due to weight loose. I gained back the weight but my cheeks are stil abit sunken . Can you please give an update on your face graft at Fresh? How much fat is still on the face? You did face graft with PRP?  Are you happy with the results until now? When I consulted with Fresh, they told me it was with PRP.[/QUOTE]


----------



## catelet

MissOrange said:


> Have you tried xeomin type of botox? It might work better for your crow's feet. Really sorry to hear each time it did not work out. How frustrating and there is the cost paid too! Dermal fillers or fat grafting is used for temple hollowing. I only had fat graft once to my temples and forehead and no need for top ups! Just have one overfill and look like frankenstein once.



Thanks Ms. Orange. If I ever try botox again, I'll mention that type you noted. I would loooovee to get rid of my crow's feet! Someday I'll have to try fat to my temples. How wonderful that it's lasted so long for you.


----------



## MissOrange

@dannythedragon and @caro89 it has been 13 months since my first full face fg and after 3 full face fat grafts at DA, I would suggest fat graft for the forehead and temples only. This I only needed once at DA and it has lasted. They overfilled to a tremendous amount and then it settled to just fill the hollows and round the forehead naturally. Sadly the fat grafts to the cheeks, nasolabial and chin area never lasted and instead my skin has sagged in the mid to lower face. I guess there is less bony support in the lower 2/3rds of the face so when the skin is stretched and distorted with the fat injections and weighted down, it does stretch the skin permanently. I am debating a facelift for next year with one side of my facial contour more uneven and saggy than the other. Word of caution for those starting their fat graft journey. Maybe it won't happen if you are younger but all I can say is it is great for the forehead and temples. It works for the eyelids but needs constant top up which can be expensive to fly to SK for top ups once or twice a year. Stick to dermal fillers for your cheeks and nasolabials or explore nasolabial silicone implants.

Here is a photo of my bony forehead and sunken upper lid sulci in April 2016 before I discovered Korea vs a photo of me earlier this week. The one time forehead fat graft at DA clinic lasted and has left a nice forehead, slightly rounded on profile and the lid fat graft at MVP has lasted on one lid after top up but has started to reabsorb slightly on the other but still much better than before any lid fat graft.


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> Hi @European95xx_ ,
> 
> A girl who went to View sent me her botched des photo so I crossed off View over a year ago. IMO the safe clinics are mvp, gng, smps, and april31 if you get Dr Kim and not a swap. DA is now hit and miss as my second fat graft there went perfectly (twilight and not GA) but my third was a nightmare GA experience and the demand for even more money than what we had agreed was truly awful.



Hi! Sorry for the late response my laptop was getting fixed. Thanks again for your advice! I´m someone who would also like to have a smaller face and a delicate face line so I think V line surgery would be the best for me. I don´t think I need a zygoma reduction. Do you know anything about sagging? Do you think it´s possible to get V line and completely avoid sagging or at least avoid big sagging? I´m someone who´s not looking to achieve ˝perfection˝ . I just want to be beautiful for me and I also wish that after one surgery I wouldn´t have to get another in terms of fixing what my first surgery has done wrong. Do you think that´s possible? What are your advices when it comes to getting a V line if you have them? Thanks again!


----------



## MissOrange

European95xx_ said:


> Hi! Sorry for the late response my laptop was getting fixed. Thanks again for your advice! I´m someone who would also like to have a smaller face and a delicate face line so I think V line surgery would be the best for me. I don´t think I need a zygoma reduction. Do you know anything about sagging? Do you think it´s possible to get V line and completely avoid sagging or at least avoid big sagging? I´m someone who´s not looking to achieve ˝perfection˝ . I just want to be beautiful for me and I also wish that after one surgery I wouldn´t have to get another in terms of fixing what my first surgery has done wrong. Do you think that´s possible? What are your advices when it comes to getting a V line if you have them? Thanks again!


HI @European95xx_ ,

V line is an amazing operation. If I had to pick, I would choose Dr Choi of gng hospital for a natural v line. TLPS looks more dramatic so would be second choice. I think if you wear the head compression constantly you can reduce the skin sagging but if a lot of bone is removed I can see a lot of excess skin. You could lose weight and that will tighten some of the skin. I guess it depends on whether you can live with a bit of sagging and uneven skin contour. If you are a perfectionist you may want a smas or thread facelift if not happy with an uneven skin contour.


----------



## MissOrange

It has now been 5 months since my eyelid fat graft top up at MVP clinic in April 2017 and the retention is still good. I would highly recommend MVP for eyelid fat graft and des for natural beautiful young eyes. I think the slight skin sagging of my lower face, as 3x fat graft from DA to this area did not remain, makes my face look more natural rather than the sharp v line contour. I have only had chin reduction 18 months ago and not angular jaw reduction. I would highly recommend bone surgery if there is a bony feature that is too big for your face.


----------



## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> HI @European95xx_ ,
> 
> V line is an amazing operation. If I had to pick, I would choose Dr Choi of gng hospital for a natural v line. TLPS looks more dramatic so would be second choice. I think if you wear the head compression constantly you can reduce the skin sagging but if a lot of bone is removed I can see a lot of excess skin. You could lose weight and that will tighten some of the skin. I guess it depends on whether you can live with a bit of sagging and uneven skin contour. If you are a perfectionist you may want a smas or thread facelift if not happy with an uneven skin contour.


Thanks! I´m not sure about TL though, because I´ve heard some negative reviews about it. I think I even saw it on some of the users´ blacklists here, but I´m not quite sure. I would like a dramatic result, but with not much bone cut because after all I don´t want to see some crazy ugly sagging afterwards.


----------



## dannythedragon

Hi @MissOrange, If you did lose more fatgraft from your eyelids would you consider going back to SK? I had dermalfiller to that area a couple of years ago in London and would be reluctant to do so again because the results weren't as good as SK. It didn't last that long(less than 2 months), didn't look as good maybe it was the practitioner, and SK clinic had to surgically remove the remainder (over a year after initial injection!)


----------



## MissOrange

dannythedragon said:


> Hi @MissOrange, If you did lose more fatgraft from your eyelids would you consider going back to SK? I had dermalfiller to that area a couple of years ago in London and would be reluctant to do so again because the results weren't as good as SK. It didn't last that long(less than 2 months), didn't look as good maybe it was the practitioner, and SK clinic had to surgically remove the remainder (over a year after initial injection!)


Oh I am sorry to hear you tried dermafiller in your upper lid! Wow that is risky @dannythedragon. If the fat graft in my upper lids disappear, I will definitely be flying back to Korea for a top up. It's still 90% there so fingers crossed on its longevity. If I did fly back it would be April/May when the weather is nice. I have told myself I must not fly back more than once a year. It is extremely addictive to get ps in Korea and if I flew back more than once a year I might be tempted to get zygoma reduction, angular jaw reduction and revision rhinoplasty but then would need smas as my skin would probably droop with more bone shaving! See how easy it is to keep spending and spending!


----------



## dannythedragon

Hi @MissOrange it's more in the sub brow area than the actual upper eyelid area. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that it stays for you.
I'm going back soon  for the 2nd free top up within the 3 month window of the first visit because most of the sub brow area has been reabsorbed but I knew that. They said expect to go back 3 times actually.  If we are ever in Gangnam at the same time we should go for a coffee, bruising permitting 
Thank you once again for posting this thread and sharing your experience.


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## sailormoon

I have sunken eyelid due to
Weight. Lost and bone more prominent, which clinic in Korea u recommend ? I need to stitch my double eyelid too. 
How abt skin booster for face instead fat grafting ??


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## loves

dannythedragon said:


> Hi @MissOrange, If you did lose more fatgraft from your eyelids would you consider going back to SK? I had dermalfiller to that area a couple of years ago in London and would be reluctant to do so again because the results weren't as good as SK. It didn't last that long(less than 2 months), didn't look as good maybe it was the practitioner, and SK clinic had to surgically remove the remainder (over a year after initial injection!)



hi i am also thinking of fillers for my sunken area right under my brows. was your filler permanent? i think i'll ask for hyaluronic based ones which can be dissolved if needed. i need to do more research.

a friend of mine did fat grafting not on her lids but undereyes and she had a small lump under her skin a year after her FG. 
i read some FGs do end up being lumpy.


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## sailormoon

I had filler under my eye to fill the tear trough and it get lumpy like hello kitty. At the end Dr inject something to dissolve it.


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## sunny68

MissOrange said:


> It has now been 5 months since my eyelid fat graft top up at MVP clinic in April 2017 and the retention is still good. I would highly recommend MVP for eyelid fat graft and des for natural beautiful young eyes. I think the slight skin sagging of my lower face, as 3x fat graft from DA to this area did not remain, makes my face look more natural rather than the sharp v line contour. I have only had chin reduction 18 months ago and not angular jaw reduction. I would highly recommend bone surgery if there is a bony feature that is too big for your face.


Hi Ms


MissOrange said:


> It has now been 5 months since my eyelid fat graft top up at MVP clinic in April 2017 and the retention is still good. I would highly recommend MVP for eyelid fat graft and des for natural beautiful young eyes. I think the slight skin sagging of my lower face, as 3x fat graft from DA to this area did not remain, makes my face look more natural rather than the sharp v line contour. I have only had chin reduction 18 months ago and not angular jaw reduction. I would highly recommend bone surgery if there is a bony feature that is too big for your face.


Hi MissOrange, your result is amazing. I had eyelid FG with other doctor in US. He injected the fat on my eyebrow. I did not see any result at all. Did Dr Seo actually injected the fat on sunken area?


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## MissOrange

sunny68 said:


> Hi Ms
> 
> Hi MissOrange, your result is amazing. I had eyelid FG with other doctor in US. He injected the fat on my eyebrow. I did not see any result at all. Did Dr Seo actually injected the fat on sunken area?


Hi @sunny68, 

Yes he injected fat in layers into the sunken eyelid sulci in May 2016 and then top up in April of this year. I heard that dermal fillers into the eyelid hollow does not last. The longest that dermal filler has lasted in my nasolabial crease is 4-6 months. The result is immediate. I went from 50 to 18 immediately after the operation! I am sorry yours was not noticeable in America. I think Korea is the best place for fat grafting as they do it all the time and have done for years.


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## MissOrange

Hi @sailormoon,

I totally get the anxiety over getting surgery in korea. In fact I found emails I had sent to BK hospital and ID hospital in November 2013 asking how to look pretty as I was 47, old, ugly and depressed! I am sooo glad I did not end up paying ID hospital to do 2 jaw surgery, v line and Zygoma reduction for 32 million won!!!! I may have wrecked my face and been broke too! Always get a second opinion. In fact BK was correct. I needed full face fat grafting not 2 jaw surgery or zygoma reduction. I sent the same 3 pictures to BK hospital who said no to zygoma reduction and only suggested fat grafting and removal of upper lip filler. Here are the 3 photos I sent in 2013 and their email replies. it serves as a warning to us foreigners to korea who are depressed and want to look pretty. Be careful you do not rush and get sucked into major procedures with permanent consequences! I waited until 2016 and literally was forced to fly to korea as my korean dad had died. I am really super grateful to @smittenkitten for her blog on mvp. Dr Seo gave me young beautiful eyes for only 3 million won including eyelid fat graft and top up or 2.7 million after tax refund.

The first 3 photos are the ones I sent ID and BK in November 2013. Then I am adding my photos from yesterday as I have even dyed my hair back to natural black and not put any western eyeshadow on my eyes (just false eyelashes). And finally I am adding ID and BK's replies to my 3 photos in 2013. I never had 2 jaw, zygoma or v line surgery in the end. Instead I paid for full face fat grafting at DA, eyelid fat grafting, ptosis correction and revision des at MVP and had bullhorn liplift in the UK. Each was around 3 million won. And my face got slimmer as I lost weight and am trying to keep between 99 and 102 lbs and am 5'1".


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## LobsterKink

Haha I look like I'm 30 but I'm actually 20. I need to do this one day.


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## joybo

MissOrange said:


> Hi @sailormoon,
> 
> I totally get the anxiety over getting surgery in korea. In fact I found emails I had sent to BK hospital and ID hospital in November 2013 asking how to look pretty as I was 47, old, ugly and depressed! I am sooo glad I did not end up paying ID hospital to do 2 jaw surgery, v line and Zygoma reduction for 32 million won!!!! I may have wrecked my face and been broke too! Always get a second opinion. In fact BK was correct. I needed full face fat grafting not 2 jaw surgery or zygoma reduction. I sent the same 3 pictures to BK hospital who said no to zygoma reduction and only suggested fat grafting and removal of upper lip filler. Here are the 3 photos I sent in 2013 and their email replies. it serves as a warning to us foreigners to korea who are depressed and want to look pretty. Be careful you do not rush and get sucked into major procedures with permanent consequences! I waited until 2016 and literally was forced to fly to korea as my korean dad had died. I am really super grateful to @smittenkitten for her blog on mvp. Dr Seo gave me young beautiful eyes for only 3 million won including eyelid fat graft and top up or 2.7 million after tax refund.
> 
> The first 3 photos are the ones I sent ID and BK in November 2013. Then I am adding my photos from yesterday as I have even dyed my hair back to natural black and not put any western eyeshadow on my eyes (just false eyelashes). And finally I am adding ID and BK's replies to my 3 photos in 2013. I never had 2 jaw, zygoma or v line surgery in the end. Instead I paid for full face fat grafting at DA, eyelid fat grafting, ptosis correction and revision des at MVP and had bullhorn liplift in the UK. Each was around 3 million won. And my face got slimmer as I lost weight and am trying to keep between 99 and 102 lbs and am 5'1".



Hi @MissOrange ! You are looking so good! I just did bone surgery as I had fierce zygomas and mouth protrusion. I am very happy with it so far, but now I am considering doing lip lift after I deswell as I feel I have a long philtrum and its making me look old. I was wondering how do you like your lip lift, how was the recovery? How is scarring? Do you remember how long it took before nobody could tell you did anything to the upper lip? Do you think 2 weeks is enough to return from lip lift without my bf being able to tell I did something?


----------



## MissOrange

joybo said:


> Hi @MissOrange ! You are looking so good! I just did bone surgery as I had fierce zygomas and mouth protrusion. I am very happy with it so far, but now I am considering doing lip lift after I deswell as I feel I have a long philtrum and its making me look old. I was wondering how do you like your lip lift, how was the recovery? How is scarring? Do you remember how long it took before nobody could tell you did anything to the upper lip? Do you think 2 weeks is enough to return from lip lift without my bf being able to tell I did something?


Hi @joybo, you are very brave to get zygoma and jaw surgeries! I am too chicken. Which clinic did you choose to do your bone surgeries? Would love to see b&a's. Maybe when I am 60 I will be brave enough to get zygoma reduction! Measure your philtrum. The ideal length is 11-13 mms. If it is over 15 mms then you may consider. Mine was a whopping 20 mms so I definitely needed it desperately. I LOVE my bullhorn liplift. The scar however is still a visible keloid at 8 months now so you will need foundation makeup to cover the scar. Your bf will know as the white raised scar is obvious if you have a prominent nasal sill as I do as I have a short nose. If your nose tip hangs down it could hide the scar better.


----------



## joybo

Thanks @MissOrange ! I did my bone surgeries at GNG. Yeah sometimes I still can't believe I actually did it. I almost didn't do my zygomas because I was afraid of sagging (I'm 35 yo), but now they are my favorite part. I'm still very swollen, but if I don't talk people think I got a fat graft. So I don't know how it will be after all the swelling goes down. Now that I fixed the bone structure, next is to fine tune the soft tissues, so I do plan to get lip lift and fat graft and be done once and for all... well... until I need a face lift in 10 yrs. I plan to do a detailed post soon so I'll try to have some photos up with that. Yeah I feel like my philtrum is around 15mm or slightly longer and my ridges are pretty flat. I recently found a doc in Florida I will likely go to, Miguel Mascaro, in case anyone else is interested. He has several reviews on RealSelf. His price is also very affordable, around $2k I believe.


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## dannythedragon

Hi @loves 
It was restylane and wasn't permanent. I personally prefer FG over dermalfiller for that area but both have advantages and disadvantages.


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## loves

@dannythedragon thanks!


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## dannythedragon

Hi @MissOrange,
Thought you might be interested that I had second round of facial FG today. I had a bit more injected in the sub brow area and the surrounding area than the 1st time. Please see attachement- Is it OK? - I'm a bit self conscious at the moment so be nice. We'll see how it goes. I'm seeing Dr Seo soon and will give him your regards. I'm in the coffee  shop nearby and your coffee's getting cold...


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## MissOrange

dannythedragon said:


> Hi @MissOrange,
> Thought you might be interested that I had second round of facial FG today. I had a bit more injected in the sub brow area and the surrounding area than the 1st time. Please see attachement- Is it OK? - I'm a bit self conscious at the moment so be nice. We'll see how it goes. I'm seeing Dr Seo soon and will give him your regards. I'm in the coffee  shop nearby and your coffee's getting cold...
> View attachment 3835367


Hi @dannythedragon, oh you poor thing. The first week after fat grafting is the worst and I cried after my first and third full face fat graft. The distortion and ugliness are psychologically very hard to cope with until the face settles back to normal. Yes, please do say hi to Dr Seo and Ellen. As it is still September, remember to ask for their special sale prices!  I remember hiding my face in a cap, sunglasses and mask and only moving the mask slightly to feed myself in public in Korea. I burst into tears at the pharmacist and at the noodle bar calling myself meewah...ugly in Korean. All the time thinking I had wrecked my face permanently. Full face fat grafting can bring a rollercoaster of emotions that's for sure!


----------



## MissOrange

joybo said:


> Thanks @MissOrange ! I did my bone surgeries at GNG. Yeah sometimes I still can't believe I actually did it. I almost didn't do my zygomas because I was afraid of sagging (I'm 35 yo), but now they are my favorite part. I'm still very swollen, but if I don't talk people think I got a fat graft. So I don't know how it will be after all the swelling goes down. Now that I fixed the bone structure, next is to fine tune the soft tissues, so I do plan to get lip lift and fat graft and be done once and for all... well... until I need a face lift in 10 yrs. I plan to do a detailed post soon so I'll try to have some photos up with that. Yeah I feel like my philtrum is around 15mm or slightly longer and my ridges are pretty flat. I recently found a doc in Florida I will likely go to, Miguel Mascaro, in case anyone else is interested. He has several reviews on RealSelf. His price is also very affordable, around $2k I believe.


Hi @joybo, I am pleased to hear you chose GNG for your bone surgeries as that is where I would go if I were brave enough to get my zygoma done. They quoted me 6 million won based on photos back in April but I never got around to making the consultation as my schedule was so busy getting fat graft top ups in 2 different clinics in one week! It is really reassuring that your zygoma op went well there and yes I too would have the same anxiety over sagging cheeks postop. Good to hear all is fine. Looking forward to reading your review!


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## MissOrange

I was asking myself whether the rib rhino in the UK made much difference as my nose is short but then I decided to compare a like for like photo with one from 2013 before rib rhino, chin sonopet reduction, bullhorn lip lift, vermillion lip lift with removal of upper lip filler, revision des, ptosis correction and lid and full face fat grafting and whoa! Big difference. Here is a recent side profile vs the 2013 side profile for you to see too. The only things I have not tried are smas facelift or thread lift and zygoma reduction. One max fax UK surgeon said I did not need zygoma reduction when she saw me post my bullhorn lip lift with her, JW clinic said I did not need based on photos and so far only gng says yes I need for 6 million which is why I hesitate as that is 2 out of 3 professional opinions saying no I do not need.


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## Mooncrystal

MissOrange said:


> I was asking myself whether the rib rhino in the UK made much difference as my nose is short but then I decided to compare a like for like photo with one from 2013 before rib rhino, chin sonopet reduction, bullhorn lip lift, vermillion lip lift with removal of upper lip filler, revision des, ptosis correction and lid and full face fat grafting and whoa! Big difference. Here is a recent side profile vs the 2013 side profile for you to see too. The only things I have not tried are smas facelift or thread lift and zygoma reduction. One max fax UK surgeon said I did not need zygoma reduction when she saw me post my bullhorn lip lift with her, JW clinic said I did not need based on photos and so far only gng says yes I need for 6 million which is why I hesitate as that is 2 out of 3 professional opinions saying no I do not need.



Wow, this is an amazing transformation and I think the part that contributes to 80% of this success is your nose and maybe chin as well.


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## Luv n bags

Hi MissOrange,

You are unrecognizable! Awesome results.  Not that it matters in your decision making, but, how does your hubby feel about the change in your looks?


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## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> Hi MissOrange,
> 
> You are unrecognizable! Awesome results.  Not that it matters in your decision making, but, how does your hubby feel about the change in your looks?


Thanks @Mooncrystal and @tigertrixie, my nose was even bigger before the postop infection last year. I was so happy I had a big nose like Jun Ji Hyun and devastated when it seemed to collapse in size and contract to the current short nose with the abscess but good to see that the bridge is higher so the rib graft did work there. Wish the tip were longer and not so short and upturned. But too afraid to have my nose operated on a 4th time.

My appearance makes no difference to the way my hubby feels. After you have been married for almost 25 years, hubbys don't even notice a haircut! lol. Although he did say he is glad my nose is smaller as he thought my nose was too big for my face last year after the rib rhino. I guess some gals want big long noses and some gals want small barbie upturned noses. After a lifetime of a small nose, I wanted to try a long big nose as all my daughters have long noses like their British dad!


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## MissOrange

Mooncrystal said:


> Wow, this is an amazing transformation and I think the part that contributes to 80% of this success is your nose and maybe chin as well.


Hi @Mooncrystal,

I looked up a photo of my postop nose back in March 2016. It was bigger and looked like Jun Ji Hyun's nose. Which nose do you think looks better on me? My current nose or this one postop? I was so happy to have this big nose for 2 weeks until it contracted. Should I see Dr Hong at GNG to get back my big nose? I would pick Dr Hong as he was the rhino specialist at Cinderella before he moved to GNG and I saw the results he did on a Californian Asian and she is very happy.


----------



## joybo

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Mooncrystal,
> 
> I looked up a photo of my postop nose back in March 2016. It was bigger and looked like Jun Ji Hyun's nose. Which nose do you think looks better on me? My current nose or this one postop? I was so happy to have this big nose for 2 weeks until it contracted. Should I see Dr Hong at GNG to get back my big nose? I would pick Dr Hong as he was the rhino specialist at Cinderella before he moved to GNG and I saw the results he did on a Californian Asian and she is very happy.


Wow, both noses look good! But you look caucasian or mixed with the bigger nose. It looks so natural! What causes the contraction though? Is there anyway to prevent that or it just depends on luck?


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## dannythedragon

Hi @MissOrange 
I agree with your hubby, your current nose is better for your face in the front and your profile is outstanding. I prefer smaller. I thought smaller noses fit Michelangelo's golden ratio better? it's what you think though.


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## MissOrange

joybo said:


> Wow, both noses look good! But you look caucasian or mixed with the bigger nose. It looks so natural! What causes the contraction though? Is there anyway to prevent that or it just depends on luck?


@joybo the contraction probably occurred because I got a +++ staph aureus nose infection 2 weeks postop. I was put on co-amoxicillin immediately postop but the staph was resistant to penicillin. It cleared on weeks of doxycycline antibiotic. I guess my advice would be to make sure you are put on an antibiotic that kills staphlococcus aureus bacteria which likes to grow in the nose.


----------



## MissOrange

dannythedragon said:


> Hi @MissOrange
> I agree with your hubby, your current nose is better for your face in the front and your profile is outstanding. I prefer smaller. I thought smaller noses fit Michelangelo's golden ratio better? it's what you think though.


Aww thanks @dannythedragon. I shall leave my short nose alone. Terrified to go there again with rhino and too scared to try silicone in my nose.


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## Mooncrystal

@MissOrange, I agree that your current nose looks better on you! It is a bit short but it suits you and the front view looks very nice


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## sailormoon

I have the same sunken eyes like ur before fat grafting but I'm really chicken.
Can u tell us more how the fat grafting done ?  Is the risk really high ? How long it took u to looks good ?


----------



## archonei

@MissOrange wow i just read your thread.. I honestly can't believe you're 50. Your current nose is well done i would say!
I also read about your fg experience at DA.. Those bruises made me shudder, is doing FG always caused that much of bruise? If you ever consider to have fg again is there any other clinics in your mind?
Thanks for sharing your journey! I think you age in reverse


----------



## sunny68

MissOrange, I'm planning to have revision DES and eyelid FG with MVP. I just had online consultation and is responded by Victoria. She is really nice and knowledgeable. At the end, she suggest me to consult with Dr Hyun but I want to go with Dr.Seo. Should I contact Ellen directly and how?


----------



## Mooncrystal

@MissOrange 

As you said you have rib cartilage grafts in your nose, may I ask if your tip feels normal and comfortable or it is quite stiff? I just read a comment from realself regarding rib cartilage grafts and it sounds like some people really regret having the surgery. Here is a comment I found from https://www.realself.com/review/london-revision-rhinoplasty-rib-graft:

''The surgeon I worked with was a local surgeon in Canada, I don't think he was the best Rhinoplasty surgeon but the issue is, they don't tell you about the changes rip graft does to your face. Rip graft is extremely hard in comparison to nose or ear cartilage. Being placed in the nose where when you smile the nose actually lifts causes restrictions to how the upper lip and smile looks. Especially if the graft is placed in the septum area. Rip graft also can warp over time or can warp right away like what happened in my situation. So you should expect for many facial muscles to change after this. If you trust your surgeon you can ask him about this further and see what he will do. I wish I lived close to you so I can meet you and show you physically what this means. You will have a nose hard as rock at the tip. Kissing becomes uncomfortable because the nose doesn't bend normally before. I think your results look very nice and you should live with your nose for a few years at least, as it will continue to change for 2 years and see if it really bothers you. Don't over obsess with how it looks as in reality no one sees the imperfections that we see in our selves and give yourself tile to heal and get used to this new nose on your face. You are a beautiful girl and I think the new nose looks great on you.''

As you have experienced all this, your opinions on this would be very much appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## MissOrange

sailormoon said:


> I have the same sunken eyes like ur before fat grafting but I'm really chicken.
> Can u tell us more how the fat grafting done ?  Is the risk really high ? How long it took u to looks good ?


@sailormoon, the key is to find a good plastic surgeon who has LOTS of experience doing fat grafting to the upper lid as it has been pointed out earlier that in inexperienced hands it can cause lumps or even worse blindness! I am 100% happy with Dr Seo at MVP who did my upper lid fat graft in May 2016 and top up in April 2017. Here is what I looked like today at age 51 so the eyelid fat graft top up has lasted 6 months now and counting! The eyelid fat graft looks even better when I drink plenty of water! The result is immediate. I had it in combination with ptosis correction and revision des. The eyelid fat graft is an amazing invention!!! From old and ugly to young sexy eyes immediately, ok once the bruising goes.


----------



## MissOrange

archonei said:


> @MissOrange wow i just read your thread.. I honestly can't believe you're 50. Your current nose is well done i would say!
> I also read about your fg experience at DA.. Those bruises made me shudder, is doing FG always caused that much of bruise? If you ever consider to have fg again is there any other clinics in your mind?
> Thanks for sharing your journey! I think you age in reverse


@archonei if I need further fat graft top up I would only trust Dr Seo at MVP clinic as they have never overcharged me or tried to extort more money from me while I am in my surgical clothes and fasted like the manager at DA did! I met a Korean lady patient in her 40s at the MVP clinic who looked like a teenager! She is lucky as she lives in Korea so can get fat graft top up whenever she likes. For me it would mean another 10-12 hour flight each way so am hoping my eyelid fat graft lasts by hydrating lots. As for the lower face, I now rely on radiesse dermal filler for the nasolabial fold/paranasal area and this lasts 4-6 months or requires twice a year injection which I can get done here in the UK. Have not had a smas or thread facelift yet. Still trying to hold out as I worry that facelift may pull my skin too tight!


----------



## MissOrange

sunny68 said:


> MissOrange, I'm planning to have revision DES and eyelid FG with MVP. I just had online consultation and is responded by Victoria. She is really nice and knowledgeable. At the end, she suggest me to consult with Dr Hyun but I want to go with Dr.Seo. Should I contact Ellen directly and how?


Hi @sunny68 try kakao id ellena0424 to contact Ellen directly. I have never met Dr Hyun. I do have a kakao friend who had her des done by Dr Hyun and her eyes look lovely. My impression is Dr Seo likes to give gals lovely natural beautiful eyes and may get annoyed if gals ask for big western creases as his aesthetic is smaller creases but big eyes with ptosis correction, I guess like he did for my eyes. That said he did give an Asian gal from the UK big creases only after she kept insisting she wanted BIG! I love the way he has tailored each des to the gal to create beautiful eyes. I have seen lots of b&a's of gals from tpf who have shared their eyes with Seo. That's why I think he has an aesthetic eye! You have seen my ugly before so you can see why I gush over miracle eye plastic surgeon Dr Seo! And because I have discovered mvp clinic I plan to look eternally young like the cult film She with Ursula Andress!


----------



## MissOrange

Mooncrystal said:


> @MissOrange
> 
> As you said you have rib cartilage grafts in your nose, may I ask if your tip feels normal and comfortable or it is quite stiff? I just read a comment from realself regarding rib cartilage grafts and it sounds like some people really regret having the surgery. Here is a comment I found from https://www.realself.com/review/london-revision-rhinoplasty-rib-graft:
> 
> ''The surgeon I worked with was a local surgeon in Canada, I don't think he was the best Rhinoplasty surgeon but the issue is, they don't tell you about the changes rip graft does to your face. Rip graft is extremely hard in comparison to nose or ear cartilage. Being placed in the nose where when you smile the nose actually lifts causes restrictions to how the upper lip and smile looks. Especially if the graft is placed in the septum area. Rip graft also can warp over time or can warp right away like what happened in my situation. So you should expect for many facial muscles to change after this. If you trust your surgeon you can ask him about this further and see what he will do. I wish I lived close to you so I can meet you and show you physically what this means. You will have a nose hard as rock at the tip. Kissing becomes uncomfortable because the nose doesn't bend normally before. I think your results look very nice and you should live with your nose for a few years at least, as it will continue to change for 2 years and see if it really bothers you. Don't over obsess with how it looks as in reality no one sees the imperfections that we see in our selves and give yourself tile to heal and get used to this new nose on your face. You are a beautiful girl and I think the new nose looks great on you.''
> 
> As you have experienced all this, your opinions on this would be very much appreciated. Thank you.


@Mooncrystal I chose a famous UK plastic surgeon renowned for rhino to do my rib rhinoplasty. Yes it feels hard at the tip and columella but that does not bother me. My only concern is I don't want the rib to contract anymore or warp as has been mentioned on real self. It has been 1.5 years now since my rib rhino and when I palpate my nose, the length of the nose feels bumpy, ie it goes in then out at the tip instead of completely straight. Fortunately it is not noticeable to look at and I had asked for a ski slope nose. Fingers crossed it remains stable. My body seems to reject artificial implants which is why I went with autologous cartilage. If your body can tolerate ultrathin silicone graft, then it might be worth a try for the length of the nose in conjunction with ear cartilage for the tip.


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## MissOrange

@sailormoon and for anyone with sunken eyelid sulci from reaching one's 40s or 50s, the one operation with the biggest result is eyelid fat graft with ptosis correction. Here is my before at age 49 and my after at age 50 a few days after Dr Seo at MVP did my eyelid fat graft, revision des and ptosis correction in one morning. It knocked off 30 years in half a day! Much cheaper than a full face lift and it only cost 3 million won or around $2,700 or £2k! I don't mind sharing my ugly old before as now I can never go back to looking like that ever again. Young forever!


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## MissOrange

And whatever you do, learn when to say stop! I went from beautiful on July 6, 2016 at MVP to distorted and ugly with full face fat graft at DAPRS on July 9, 2016 and wept and wept and wept. It has taken me a year now to be happy with my face again. Try not to combine procedures but just do one thing at a time. And from now on I am sticking to just MVP.


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## MissOrange

I hope my plastic surgery journey has come to an end for now...here are some selfies from today. Learn when to stop!


----------



## sailormoon

MissOrange said:


> @sailormoon, the key is to find a good plastic surgeon who has LOTS of experience doing fat grafting to the upper lid as it has been pointed out earlier that in inexperienced hands it can cause lumps or even worse blindness! I am 100% happy with Dr Seo at MVP who did my upper lid fat graft in May 2016 and top up in April 2017. Here is what I looked like today at age 51 so the eyelid fat graft top up has lasted 6 months now and counting! The eyelid fat graft looks even better when I drink plenty of water! The result is immediate. I had it in combination with ptosis correction and revision des. The eyelid fat graft is an amazing invention!!! From old and ugly to young sexy eyes immediately, ok once the bruising goes.



Blindness it sound scary !!! U look AMAZING. And beautiful MissOrange. I'm so motivated by ur pic. I'm coming to my late 30s although my sunken eyelid not as bad as ur before since our age is 15yrs gap. 
I believe good Dr is very important , another worry I have is the communication issue. 
How long does the fat grating take ? Do u mind share with me pic aft u had done ur eyelid ? 
How abt the person to contact at MVP? I would like to KakaoTalk if u can recommend me one.


----------



## Mooncrystal

MissOrange said:


> @Mooncrystal I chose a famous UK plastic surgeon renowned for rhino to do my rib rhinoplasty. Yes it feels hard at the tip and columella but that does not bother me. My only concern is I don't want the rib to contract anymore or warp as has been mentioned on real self. It has been 1.5 years now since my rib rhino and when I palpate my nose, the length of the nose feels bumpy, ie it goes in then out at the tip instead of completely straight. Fortunately it is not noticeable to look at and I had asked for a ski slope nose. Fingers crossed it remains stable. My body seems to reject artificial implants which is why I went with autologous cartilage. If your body can tolerate ultrathin silicone graft, then it might be worth a try for the length of the nose in conjunction with ear cartilage for the tip.



Thanks MissOrange! Yeah I know it feels hard but does it feel uncomfortable at all, like something stuck in your nose? I hope it remains stable. One problem with cartilage graft rhinoplasty is that the nose may look amazing initially and problems only happen later...


----------



## sunny68

MissOrange said:


> Hi @sunny68 try kakao id ellena0424 to contact Ellen directly. I have never met Dr Hyun. I do have a kakao friend who had her des done by Dr Hyun and her eyes look lovely. My impression is Dr Seo likes to give gals lovely natural beautiful eyes and may get annoyed if gals ask for big western creases as his aesthetic is smaller creases but big eyes with ptosis correction, I guess like he did for my eyes. That said he did give an Asian gal from the UK big creases only after she kept insisting she wanted BIG! I love the way he has tailored each des to the gal to create beautiful eyes. I have seen lots of b&a's of gals from tpf who have shared their eyes with Seo. That's why I think he has an aesthetic eye! You have seen my ugly before so you can see why I gush over miracle eye plastic surgeon Dr Seo! And because I have discovered mvp clinic I plan to look eternally young like the cult film She with Ursula Andress!


Hi MissOrange, thank you so much for all your advice. I think Dr Seo has done a great job fixing your sunken eyelid and the crease he gave you is exactly what I want. After my botched DES, I spent $3,500 in US to do FG on my eyelid but he gave me no result. As for my revision DES, it will be much harder to fix because my eyelid are messed up so badly. Do you know if Dr Seo has great experience with revision DES? On MVP website, it said Dr. Huyn is specialized in revision blepharoplasty. Do you know if I can have consultation with different doctor within the same clinic? Finding the right doctor is so important to me, I can't afford to have another failed surgery. You are so pretty now and I don't think you need any more surgery for the next 10 years. I wish my PS journey will end after this one. Thanks again.


----------



## MissOrange

Mooncrystal said:


> Thanks MissOrange! Yeah I know it feels hard but does it feel uncomfortable at all, like something stuck in your nose? I hope it remains stable. One problem with cartilage graft rhinoplasty is that the nose may look amazing initially and problems only happen later...


Hi @Mooncrystal, my rib nose feels fine. Not uncomfortable. Doesn't feel like a foreign body. Don't scare me with 'problems only happen later'! I clean my nostrils with dilute hydrogen peroxide dipped q-tips once a month which seems to keep my sinuses clear too.


----------



## MissOrange

sunny68 said:


> Hi MissOrange, thank you so much for all your advice. I think Dr Seo has done a great job fixing your sunken eyelid and the crease he gave you is exactly what I want. After my botched DES, I spent $3,500 in US to do FG on my eyelid but he gave me no result. As for my revision DES, it will be much harder to fix because my eyelid are messed up so badly. Do you know if Dr Seo has great experience with revision DES? On MVP website, it said Dr. Huyn is specialized in revision blepharoplasty. Do you know if I can have consultation with different doctor within the same clinic? Finding the right doctor is so important to me, I can't afford to have another failed surgery. You are so pretty now and I don't think you need any more surgery for the next 10 years. I wish my PS journey will end after this one. Thanks again.


Hi @sunny68 if you want and like my eyes, then ask to see Dr Seo. My lids had been operated on 3 times in the UK before Dr Seo and he was able to work with my eyelid skin which must have had lots of scar tissue from multiple prior eyelid ops. I am so sorry to hear you spent $3500 in the US for FG! Wow. Ouch. I trusted Dr Seo as he had operated on  @smitten_kitten and she had had botched des from another country which he fixed! So yes I do think he has enough experience doing revision des. I now carry a bottle of evian water with me everywhere I go to plump up my eyelid skin! Even a little dehydration makes the fat graft shrink a little. You can see both Dr Hyun and Dr Seo in consultation I should think to decide whose style you prefer. I wish you an end to your ps journey and beautiful young sexy eyes with Dr Seo like he did for Australian @smitten_kitten and British-Korean me.


----------



## MissOrange

sailormoon said:


> Blindness it sound scary !!! U look AMAZING. And beautiful MissOrange. I'm so motivated by ur pic. I'm coming to my late 30s although my sunken eyelid not as bad as ur before since our age is 15yrs gap.
> I believe good Dr is very important , another worry I have is the communication issue.
> How long does the fat grating take ? Do u mind share with me pic aft u had done ur eyelid ?
> How abt the person to contact at MVP? I would like to KakaoTalk if u can recommend me one.


Hi @sailormoon,

I added my pre and post eyelid op photos in prior posts. I was awake and pain free for the revision des and then put completely to sleep for the eyelid fat graft. I think the whole operation was 2-3 hours. My contact was manager Ellen who is a Canadian-Korean. Her kakao id is ellena0424 and she arranged a private taxi to pick me up at the airport to take me to my hotel and then to mvp clinic. I booked everything via kakao with her. It was very simple. I ordered korean won online for home delivery in the uk, and I kept kakaoing @smitten_kitten who was so kind and reassuring as a former patient who had seen Dr Seo a year before me! Even a little sunken eyelid makes one look older! I keep checking my lids to make sure the fat graft is still there as I do not want to ever look old again. Good luck with your ps journey. It is very easy to just copy what I did to get the same results.


----------



## sailormoon

I can't add ellena0424 for her Kakao.


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> @sailormoon, the key is to find a good plastic surgeon who has LOTS of experience doing fat grafting to the upper lid as it has been pointed out earlier that in inexperienced hands it can cause lumps or even worse blindness! I am 100% happy with Dr Seo at MVP who did my upper lid fat graft in May 2016 and top up in April 2017. Here is what I looked like today at age 51 so the eyelid fat graft top up has lasted 6 months now and counting! The eyelid fat graft looks even better when I drink plenty of water! The result is immediate. I had it in combination with ptosis correction and revision des. The eyelid fat graft is an amazing invention!!! From old and ugly to young sexy eyes immediately, ok once the bruising goes.



Your FG looks great. It is actually because you mentioned eyelid fg that made me realise this was exactly why I am looking so old lately SO thanks for sharing! My hollow eye lids are not as deep as yours since I am a tad younger at 45 but it does contribute to me looking middle-aged. It also runs in my family, all my aunts, mother and maternal grandmother have very deepset eyes for Asians which is nice when younger and not so nice post 40. I went for a filler though, I am not ready to go to Korea or anyone else to do FG at the moment. Loving my results!


----------



## Gats

loves said:


> Your FG looks great. It is actually because you mentioned eyelid fg that made me realise this was exactly why I am looking so old lately SO thanks for sharing! My hollow eye lids are not as deep as yours since I am a tad younger at 45 but it does contribute to me looking middle-aged. It also runs in my family, all my aunts, mother and maternal grandmother have very deepset eyes for Asians which is nice when younger and not so nice post 40. I went for a filler though, I am not ready to go to Korea or anyone else to do FG at the moment. Loving my results!



What type of filler did they use, how many syringes, and how much did it cost? I've read filler in the upper eyelid area can be rather risky, opinions from docs on it seem to vary which isn't a good thing. If fat graft is safer and longer lasting than filler, I'd save up for that.


----------



## loves

Gats said:


> What type of filler did they use, how many syringes, and how much did it cost? I've read filler in the upper eyelid area can be rather risky, opinions from docs on it seem to vary which isn't a good thing. If fat graft is safer and longer lasting than filler, I'd save up for that.


I did it back in my home country and I have the details there not here. I don't remember how much it costs because my itemized bill is back home and not where I am currently staying. For me cost is not an issue at all,  rather a preference for injectables at this moment. I will definitely explore fg for lids in the future.


----------



## sunny68

sailormoon said:


> I can't add ellena0424 for her Kakao.


I do able to find Ellen Choi on Kakao with this id. Pls try again.


----------



## gkudaka

You look amazing at 51. I just joined as I have gotten depressed at how awful I look because I've gotten old and fat. I'm thinking about getting a facelift in Korea and joined this forum to see about Seoul clinics.  I can't believe how great you look.


----------



## MissOrange

gkudaka said:


> You look amazing at 51. I just joined as I have gotten depressed at how awful I look because I've gotten old and fat. I'm thinking about getting a facelift in Korea and joined this forum to see about Seoul clinics.  I can't believe how great you look.


@gkudaka Korea will make you young and beautiful looking! I thought I needed a facelift when I turned 50 but then like @loves said I realised my upper lids were hollow which made me look very old so I did not get a face lift in the end but just eyelid revision des and fat graft in the lids. This was the first step to reversing ageing. If you have jowls then yes a face lift would help. The good news is that you won't need full face fat graft as you have natural facial fat which means no old bony face like I had. If you have too much fat, you can consider liposuction with a lift. 

I still think I need zygoma reduction as my cheekbones are so wide. But I have spent so much money on my plastic surgery journey that the thought of spending £1000 again to fly to korea and cover hotel costs for a week and 6 million won for zygoma reduction at gng is a lot to think about. I am using hair to cover my wide zygoma and growing out my fringe too. 

The clinics I would recommend for your journey @gkudaka are gng dr hong for nose, gng choi for bone surgery, and mvp seo for eyelids and eyelid fg. Would love to see your b&a after your trip to Korea!


----------



## Prettydumb

Hello,

I'm going to have DES + probably epicanthoplasty end of October. I'm also considering to have fat graft. MVP is on my list, however, I've been trying to contact Ellen on Wechat for almost a month now without a response. 

Could someone pls tell me, if DES can be done together with fat graft? Also, I'm 29. Is it the right age to have FG or is it too soon? I will not fly to SK to have a second touch up, so is it worth it? 
Thank you


----------



## MissOrange

Prettydumb said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm going to have DES + probably epicanthoplasty end of October. I'm also considering to have fat graft. MVP is on my list, however, I've been trying to contact Ellen on Wechat for almost a month now without a response.
> 
> Could someone pls tell me, if DES can be done together with fat graft? Also, I'm 29. Is it the right age to have FG or is it too soon? I will not fly to SK to have a second touch up, so is it worth it?
> Thank you


Hi @Prettydumb 

Download the kakao app and contact Ellen via kakao. I only used kakao to communicate with korean plastic surgery clinics as it is Korea's version of whats app. And yes you can have fat graft at the same time as des. I had eyelid fat graft at the same time as my revision des.

As you are not flying back to SK for a second touch up, you should let your surgeon know so he overfills to reduce reabsorption. I only had fat graft once to my forehead and temples and have never had a top up in these areas. I was super overfilled to the point of looking like Frankenstein! Imo fat graft to the lower face does not seem to last despite top ups. I am relying on dermal fillers for the paranasal/nasolabial areas after 3 fat grafts to these areas all reabsorbed. Even after one eyelid fat graft 50% of fat remained after a year so top up this year brought it up again to 80% but even 50% is better than the extreme hollow eyelids I had with aging. Fat grafting to the face is a tricky thing to maintain. As the fat is either from the inner thighs or tummy, I have noticed that dehydration makes the fat shrink and rehydrating with a bottle of water makes it expand! And if I eat a full meal, my face bloats! I took selfies before and after I ate and my face looked completely different...slim before and ballooned in the after. There must be more to the fat transfer ie how thigh or tummy fat grafted cells respond vs normal facial fat cells.

Age 29 is fine for des. I had my first des in my 30s! In korea girls as young as 18 are getting des to open up their eyes. I am a fan of des with ptosis correction as I can now make my eyes open really widely if I want for a doll's eyes look.


----------



## Prettydumb

I contacted MVP by email and got a reply from Victoria this morning. I'm now waiting for their prices. 
Meanwhile I got the following prices from other clinics:

Opera http://www.operasurgery.co.kr/en/
des 1100usd, epi 500, des + ptosis 1700, fat graft 1600
2. Item des 1550, epi 875, fg 2100

Opera has very cheap prices!!!


----------



## Prettydumb

Thank you @MissOrange! 

I wanted to ask you, if fat is harvested from abdomen or thighs, will these parts be saggy? Loose skin. If you know what I mean. I gave birth 9 months ago and skin on my abdomen is very loose already.



MissOrange said:


> Hi @Prettydumb
> 
> Download the kakao app and contact Ellen via kakao. I only used kakao to communicate with korean plastic surgery clinics as it is Korea's version of whats app. And yes you can have fat graft at the same time as des. I had eyelid fat graft at the same time as my revision des.
> 
> As you are not flying back to SK for a second touch up, you should let your surgeon know so he overfills to reduce reabsorption. I only had fat graft once to my forehead and temples and have never had a top up in these areas. I was super overfilled to the point of looking like Frankenstein! Imo fat graft to the lower face does not seem to last despite top ups. I am relying on dermal fillers for the paranasal/nasolabial areas after 3 fat grafts to these areas all reabsorbed. Even after one eyelid fat graft 50% of fat remained after a year so top up this year brought it up again to 80% but even 50% is better than the extreme hollow eyelids I had with aging. Fat grafting to the face is a tricky thing to maintain. As the fat is either from the inner thighs or tummy, I have noticed that dehydration makes the fat shrink and rehydrating with a bottle of water makes it expand! And if I eat a full meal, my face bloats! I took selfies before and after I ate and my face looked completely different...slim before and ballooned in the after. There must be more to the fat transfer ie how thigh or tummy fat grafted cells respond vs normal facial fat cells.
> 
> Age 29 is fine for des. I had my first des in my 30s! In korea girls as young as 18 are getting des to open up their eyes. I am a fan of des with ptosis correction as I can now make my eyes open really widely if I want for a doll's eyes look.


----------



## catelet

Hi @MissOrange, your lips look so good! Do you mind me asking about what type of anesthesia was used when you had your lip lift along the vermillion border at MVP?


----------



## MissOrange

Prettydumb said:


> Thank you @MissOrange!
> 
> I wanted to ask you, if fat is harvested from abdomen or thighs, will these parts be saggy? Loose skin. If you know what I mean. I gave birth 9 months ago and skin on my abdomen is very loose already.


Hi @Prettydumb, I had fat grafting from the tummy once by mvp and no sagging. But I had fat grafting from my thighs twice by DAPRS with no compression bandaging and got sagging. I am not sure there is a procedure to cut and lift my thigh skin! Really annoying to see sagging thigh skin and cellulite! I guess the key is to get compression bandaging for thighs and wear a tight corset for tummy grafts.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Hi @MissOrange, your lips look so good! Do you mind me asking about what type of anesthesia was used when you had your lip lift along the vermillion border at MVP?


Hi @catelet, MVP uses twilight sedation anaesthesia. This is my preferred anaesthesia as recovery is quick. The vermillion lip lift was good initially as Dr Choi also removed lip filler to make the lip smooth and the stitchwork was amazing and left no scar. But the lift did not stay and had dropped within 6 months which is why I then went to maxfacial surgeon Dr Caroline Mills in January who did my bullhorn lip lift and cut out 9 mms of skin! Not sure if Korean plastic surgeons would be as aggressive to remove so much philtrum skin. I like my 11 cm philtrum as it makes me look younger and I have natural big lips now too. And if I want smaller lips, I use foundation over my lips and then line the lips inside the border.


----------



## MissOrange

Today is an update on fat grafting. It has been 15 months since my first full face fat graft and 6 months since my second top up. My face is now extremely sensitive to even the slightest weight gain or the slightest dehydration. I wonder if this is because thigh fat cells are thicker than facial fat cells? Even a weight gain of 1-2 lbs seems to go straight to my face and I end up looking like I have chipmunk cheeks and a wide face! And in the morning before I have had my first drink of water, my face looks saggy and wrinkly in the lower face but after drinking a small bottle of water it seems to plump out my face! For those who are starting on your fat graft journey, be prepared for the unpredictable nature of how your face responds to dehydration or the slightest weight gain! I don't think I need any more fat graft top ups, just need to drink more water but try to keep my weight at 99-100 lbs as at 102-3 lbs my face looks big and chubby!


----------



## MissOrange

I have now purchased kelo cote gel to try to reduce the bullhorn liplift keloid scar. Has anyone used this in the past? Hoping it works. Will keep you informed when it arrives to see if it works or not. The visible keloid scar is the only downside to bullhorn liplift/philtrum reduction. If it doesn't work then in January 2018 I shall ask for steroid injections into the scar to flatten.

As an amusing aside, I went to a new hair salon and the 20+ hair stylist was in shock when I said my age. She grabbed my hands and started examining them closely. I don't have old hands either. I wash and moisturise my hands frequently and in the sun put high spf on my hands and face. Start young as it seems your hands may also give away your age! Sun damage causes old age pigmentation on your hands and thinning of the skin. Keep hydrated and protect against uv sun damage.


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## Gats

MissOrange said:


> I have now purchased kelo cote gel to try to reduce the bullhorn liplift keloid scar. Has anyone used this in the past? Hoping it works. Will keep you informed when it arrives to see if it works or not. The visible keloid scar is the only downside to bullhorn liplift/philtrum reduction. If it doesn't work then in January 2018 I shall ask for steroid injections into the scar to flatten.
> 
> As an amusing aside, I went to a new hair salon and the 20+ hair stylist was in shock when I said my age. She grabbed my hands and started examining them closely. I don't have old hands either. I wash and moisturise my hands frequently and in the sun put high spf on my hands and face. Start young as it seems your hands may also give away your age! Sun damage causes old age pigmentation on your hands and thinning of the skin. Keep hydrated and protect against uv sun damage.



Did they recommend to do massage on the scar? I've read that can help prevent raised scars as it breaks up the scar tissue.

LOL at the hair stylist story, that's great. While I do skincare on my hands, I'm starting to see some volume loss which is genetic I think as my parents both seem to not carry much fat in their hands. I guess I'll need hand fat grafts too.


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## varsha08

MissOrange said:


> I have now purchased kelo cote gel to try to reduce the bullhorn liplift keloid scar. Has anyone used this in the past? Hoping it works. Will keep you informed when it arrives to see if it works or not. The visible keloid scar is the only downside to bullhorn liplift/philtrum reduction. If it doesn't work then in January 2018 I shall ask for steroid injections into the scar to flatten.
> 
> As an amusing aside, I went to a new hair salon and the 20+ hair stylist was in shock when I said my age. She grabbed my hands and started examining them closely. I don't have old hands either. I wash and moisturise my hands frequently and in the sun put high spf on my hands and face. Start young as it seems your hands may also give away your age! Sun damage causes old age pigmentation on your hands and thinning of the skin. Keep hydrated and protect against uv sun damage.



May I know your kakao id? I would like to talk to you. I am going to korea for revision rhinoplasty and would like some advice


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## catelet

Thank you @MissOrange!


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## catelet

MissOrange said:


> I have now purchased kelo cote gel to try to reduce the bullhorn liplift keloid scar. Has anyone used this in the past? Hoping it works. Will keep you informed when it arrives to see if it works or not. The visible keloid scar is the only downside to bullhorn liplift/philtrum reduction. If it doesn't work then in January 2018 I shall ask for steroid injections into the scar to flatten.



PS *MissOrange* I read about someone who said they had success with microneedling for a lip lift scar.  Something to consider?
https://www.realself.com/review/was...AM 2017-10-31&utm_term=GlobalNLSuperSuperStar


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## kittymon

MissOrange said:


> @sailormoon and for anyone with sunken eyelid sulci from reaching one's 40s or 50s, the one operation with the biggest result is eyelid fat graft with ptosis correction. Here is my before at age 49 and my after at age 50 a few days after Dr Seo at MVP did my eyelid fat graft, revision des and ptosis correction in one morning. It knocked off 30 years in half a day! Much cheaper than a full face lift and it only cost 3 million won or around $2,700 or £2k! I don't mind sharing my ugly old before as now I can never go back to looking like that ever again. Young forever!



is it possible to have sunken eyelids in mid 20s? I'm experiencing this and clinics have suggested eyelid fat graft. Wondering which clinics are good for this.


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## catelet

I should add that the link I provided above was for a woman with a bad result (not a good one like yours!) but in the comments, someone advised her to try microneedling for her scar. Just thought I'd mention it.


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Did they recommend to do massage on the scar? I've read that can help prevent raised scars as it breaks up the scar tissue.
> 
> LOL at the hair stylist story, that's great. While I do skincare on my hands, I'm starting to see some volume loss which is genetic I think as my parents both seem to not carry much fat in their hands. I guess I'll need hand fat grafts too.


Hi @Gats,

Yes have been massaging the scar too and trying to squash the raised keloid lumps. The kelo cote seems to be silicone and seems to burn the scar, ie it stings and burns a bit. My scar which is 9 months old and was white, turned red with the gel. I guess that means it is working. I have been applying 2-3 times a day. I got a 15g tube on ebay for £18 which is supposed to last 3 months.

I hear they do dermal fillers for hands as well as fat grafting. Just saw on instagram a UK video of a patient getting a dermal filler in the eyelids! Wow she is brave to be awake with a needle in her eyelids!


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> I should add that the link I provided above was for a woman with a bad result (not a good one like yours!) but in the comments, someone advised her to try microneedling for her scar. Just thought I'd mention it.


Thanks @catelet, yes read the link to the 1 star realself review of the lip lift. Poor patient. Thanks for the microneedling suggestion in the comments. Good to know if the kelocote is not enough for the keloid.


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## MissOrange

kittymon said:


> is it possible to have sunken eyelids in mid 20s? I'm experiencing this and clinics have suggested eyelid fat graft. Wondering which clinics are good for this.


Hi @kittymon, 
If you are very underweight, then yes the eyes may look sunken in your 20s. Try drinking an entire bottle of water and see if the eyelids look less sunken. Sometimes it may just be dehydration but if not then eyelid fat graft will help. I have had eyelid fat grafts at MVP and DAPRS. MVP is a lot cheaper and gives free top ups. My free top up has now lasted 6 months and I keep drinking water if it starts to sink any and that plumps the lids out again.


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## MissOrange

varsha08 said:


> May I know your kakao id? I would like to talk to you. I am going to korea for revision rhinoplasty and would like some advice


Hi @varsha08, you may use this tpf and send a private message. Click on my name and send a direct message. For revision rhino, I would recommend Dr Hong at GNG based on the b&a's I have seen on instagram and on tpf and the results of a Californian asian who got a super result. She was so happy. She flew out to Korea from California, got her revision rhino with Dr Hong, then flew back. I have not been brave enough to go for a revision rhino at gng to correct my short nose to make it big and long like Jun Ji Hyun. Sigh. I guess it has to look really bad before I take another chance at surgery and pay for another rhino. So scared the skin will die if I get too many rhinos. My nose is tiny as it is so not much skin to stretch and I worry about another abscess.


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## MissOrange

Some have been asking me for an update on my revision des at MVP in April 2016. It has been 17 months now and I am extremely happy. I think the key is to ask for a lot of lid skin excision so there is less skin to droop over time and with gravity and if you want a big crease keep reminding your ps that you want big. Here are some photos earlier this week. I am trying to look like the korean actresses in the kbs dramas by hiding my wide zygoma/cheekbones with camera angles, contouring and hair! Cheaper than 6 million won for zygoma reduction and I am still scared of screws in my face as if that gets infected (my bad luck with postop infections) when I get back to the UK, I am really 'screwed'! LOL. I have cropped the last photo as one of my cheekbones is bigger than the other so I don't like my frontal view but you can see that the lid crease is very prominent and nice. I am trying to keep my weight at 100 lbs for 5'1" to keep my face from looking fat. The fat graft cells balloon if you eat too much!


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## catelet

Thanks MissOrange for sharing your awesome results! 

I also wonder (as SailorMoon asked) what might work for tear trough hollows. I've read it's a difficult area to treat successfully.


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Thanks MissOrange for sharing your awesome results!
> 
> I also wonder (as SailorMoon asked) what might work for tear trough hollows. I've read it's a difficult area to treat successfully.


Hi @catelet,

I guess as it is an area above the cheeks, dermal fillers or fat grafting might work in tear trough hollows? I haven't researched this. I have been looking at zygoma reduction but there are only 8 reviews on this on realself. I like my side profile now but my front view is not ideal. Today I noticed MVP posted a video on instagram of zygoma reduction on model Eva by Dr Seo! I am intrigued! I am going to research and find out more about his technique. If it is just shaving and no screws it may be worth me trying?

I am now 17 months since my rib rhino reoperation and have put the before photos side by side with the recent ones. I can see now that Dr Ion built up my bridge with rib cartilage and gave the tip more projection too. The jaw line has lost its sharp definition with the chin shaving but fortunately very little skin sagging. My eyes look much more open after revision DES with Dr Seo. Dr Kim at DA did the forehead and temples fat grafting x 1 which has lasted over a year now. Dr Choi at MVP removed my upper lip filler. Dr Mills gave me a lip lift. Perfect side profile! No more flat pancake face! Now I just need to sort out my right zygoma/cheekbone being much wider than my left so I can stop taking selfies from an angle and can stop wearing big frame male glasses with hair over my face to hide my wide cheekbones. My face is a whopping 15.5 cms from left to right across my cheeks! My face is even wider than my 6 foot husband! I can't even look at my face in the mirror at the hairdressers as even the British hair stylists have smaller faces than I do!


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## KPSA

@MissOrange You look great ! Thanks for sharing.


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## MissOrange

KPSA said:


> @MissOrange You look great ! Thanks for sharing.


You're welcome @KPSA. Hoping my thoughts help others avoid PS disasters!

Today I had a eureka moment. I couldn't understand why my face fat graft ballooned even at 99 lbs or 100 lbs which would put me at a bmi of only 19 yet would also look normal on the same day too or look deflated and saggy in the morning and now I have figured it out!

One day I had skipped breakfast and was about to have a late lunch when I realised I had not drunk any water that day and it was almost 2 pm. My lower face looked old, saggy and empty! I then drank a small bottle of evian and the lower face filled up and the skin no longer looked saggy! I have attached a photo of the saggy deflated lower face before water.

Then I remembered how for one event I was 99 lbs and my face looked nice and slim before dinner but after just 8 pieces of sushi with soya sauce which contains msg, my face and neck ballooned and made me look like I weighed 110 lbs! Here is the side by side taken within an hour of each other! On the right sitting at the sushi restaurant drinking water waiting for the sushi to arrive and on the left leaving the sushi restaurant after just 8 pieces of sushi dipped in soya sauce! No alcohol. And a face that had ballooned after msg!

So today I did an experiment and after thai lunch which was extremely salty so probably was loaded with msg, I looked at my face and sure enough it ballooned. I then waited and it took 2 hours for my fat graft to go back to normal! The conclusion then is to stay away from msg after fat grafting! Although maybe I am sensitive to msg? And if your fat graft in the lower face disappears, drink plenty of water as maybe the cells are microscopic and will reexpand once well hydrated! No more fat graft top ups for me. Just water and no msg!


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## catelet

MissOrange that is interesting! Who would think MSG and salt could have that much effect!? But it appears you have nailed it.  

I think you have sold me on fat grafting--especially on the forehead. Yours looks really nice and young. Mine is bony now on the sides and I'm sure it would benefit me--it's definitely a sign of aging that I have developed. Also my forehead is kind of flat. I need hair transplants too though on my temples, so I'm thinking probably the hair first. Your hair transplant looks amazing, but I have to wonder if Asian clients have better results as most of you have thick, fabulous hair.  Mine is much thinner, so I think I might have to be a lot more careful and also added to the mix, is that my scalp doesn't have much laxity for strip grafting. One doctor suggested I massage my scalp to help encourage more laxity first.

I have learned so much from your posts and your being so transparent here on the board. Thank you for that.


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> MissOrange that is interesting! Who would think MSG and salt could have that much effect!? But it appears you have nailed it.
> 
> I think you have sold me on fat grafting--especially on the forehead. Yours looks really nice and young. Mine is bony now on the sides and I'm sure it would benefit me--it's definitely a sign of aging that I have developed. Also my forehead is kind of flat. I need hair transplants too though on my temples, so I'm thinking probably the hair first. Your hair transplant looks amazing, but I have to wonder if Asian clients have better results as most of you have thick, fabulous hair.  Mine is much thinner, so I think I might have to be a lot more careful and also added to the mix, is that my scalp doesn't have much laxity for strip grafting. One doctor suggested I massage my scalp to help encourage more laxity first.
> 
> I have learned so much from your posts and your being so transparent here on the board. Thank you for that.


You are most welcome @catelet. It is very warm to receive thanks for my posts and I am super happy it is helping you in your research to look younger and more beautiful. Fat grafting is very new to me as I knew nothing about it until last year so am really trying to understand why it changes so much even in the space of a day.

 I was a bit down yesterday as mvp has come back to me and said no to zygoma reduction and calls my wide zygoma, muscles instead, from 2 photos I sent. I would love to know how wide other girls faces are as I truly believe I have the biggest face ever at 15.5 cms across from left to right. Look in a mirror and take a tape measure to measure, not against the face but a few cms away so as not to measure along the contours and nose. I can even feel the zygoma bone directly under my skin and am already at a bmi of 19. I don't think a bmi of 18 would shrink my zygoma bone. It seems then that the only ps clinic in sk offering me zygoma reduction is GNG.

I shall wait a few months and see if a diet without msg (no chinese food gulp, no thai ekachai or wagamama as they both use msg gulp, and no soya sauce on my japanese or korean food), keeps my face looking slim. I shall have to stop going to the hairdressers as every stylist has a smaller face than me when I sit in that chair staring at my big face in the mirror with wet flat hair. Or maybe as the stylist is standing behind me, their faces will always appear smaller as I am seated closer to the mirror???

Or I bite the bullet and fly to SK in April to try GNG. I need to find someone else who had a huge face width like mine who then had successful zygoma reduction at GNG with Dr Choi to reassure myself 100%.


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## catelet

MissOrange said:


> I was a bit down yesterday as mvp has come back to me and said no to zygoma reduction and calls my wide zygoma, muscles instead, from 2 photos I sent. I would love to know how wide other girls faces are as I truly believe I have the biggest face ever at 15.5 cms across from left to right. Look in a mirror and take a tape measure to measure, not against the face but a few cms away so as not to measure along the contours and nose. I can even feel the zygoma bone directly under my skin and am already at a bmi of 19. I don't think a bmi of 18 would shrink my zygoma bone. It seems then that the only ps clinic in sk offering me zygoma reduction is GNG.



Ok I just read your post and tried to measure mine, in a mirror so it wasn't probably perfect but mine measures about the same as yours!  I've always felt like I had a larger face since my teens, but it has proven to be an advantage as I've aged since my face doesn't look as gaunt as my same-aged peers. 

I'm caucasion though and we usually value having a high, prominent cheekbone area, so it's not something I've ever thought about reducing. However, the fat that used to sit on the cheekbones has dropped and I now have jowls unfortunately.  If only I could move that fat back up into position I'd be happy but it probably doesn't work that way--I sure wish it did! 

Are you really sure you want to reduce that area of your face? I think it looks sooo good in your picture above on the right--it really gives you a heart-shaped face I think. I see what you mean a bit for the one where you've had a lot of sodium and msg maybe on the left, but that's just temporary right? I sometimes have bloating as well. But also I'm noticing as I've aged I am also losing some bone in my face--definitely in my jaw (I need a lower facelift now) --and maybe I've lost it in my cheekbones, too, possibly along with fat there. I just know I look older!!  

Anyway Just thought I'd throw that out there although I'm not sure if it's helpful or not.


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Ok I just read your post and tried to measure mine, in a mirror so it wasn't probably perfect but mine measures about the same as yours!  I've always felt like I had a larger face since my teens, but it has proven to be an advantage as I've aged since my face doesn't look as gaunt as my same-aged peers.
> 
> I'm caucasion though and we usually value having a high, prominent cheekbone area, so it's not something I've ever thought about reducing. However, the fat that used to sit on the cheekbones has dropped and I now have jowls unfortunately.  If only I could move that fat back up into position I'd be happy but it probably doesn't work that way--I sure wish it did!
> 
> Are you really sure you want to reduce that area of your face? I think it looks sooo good in your picture above on the right--it really gives you a heart-shaped face I think. I see what you mean a bit for the one where you've had a lot of sodium and msg maybe on the left, but that's just temporary right? I sometimes have bloating as well. But also I'm noticing as I've aged I am also losing some bone in my face--definitely in my jaw (I need a lower facelift now) --and maybe I've lost it in my cheekbones, too, possibly along with fat there. I just know I look older!!
> 
> Anyway Just thought I'd throw that out there although I'm not sure if it's helpful or not.


Aww @catelet, thank you so much for measuring your face width too! That is so reassuring that you too have the same measurement...twins! Yes Caucasians keep telling me people pay to have cheekbones like I have and I am like say what? I keep seeing the huge distance between my outer corner of my eyes and the side of my face and wish it were smaller. I am sorry to hear some of the fat has dropped to give jowls. My Caucasian OH has jowls. The jowls lessened with the 5:2 diet. I used to drink diet coke a lot as a diet aid until I realised it has aspartame which may be linked to brain tumours and MS! I thought my weight would go up if I stopped drinking my one can a day of diet coke but it didn't!

A clinic in sk suggests I try threadlift face lift. Maybe as we age we cannot escape getting a lower facelift eventually. I worry that any facelift will bring more attention to my big wide cheeks!

I watched extreme beauty disasters last night and at the end a makeup team showed how to make ones eyes big with makeup, corner wings, irridescent shadow on the inner corner and bottom liner, eyeshadow on the outer lids, big lashes and realised that's how I do my makeup so big eyes then make the face appear smaller. I think my choices are get a revision rhino to make my nose big and long which will give the illusion that the face is smaller or get zygoma reduction to reduce the width of my face. Ideally it should be 14 cms for the golden ratio to apply to the height and width of the ideal face.


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## eurasianbeauty

MissOrange said:


> Aww @catelet, thank you so much for measuring your face width too! That is so reassuring that you too have the same measurement...twins! Yes Caucasians keep telling me people pay to have cheekbones like I have and I am like say what? I keep seeing the huge distance between my outer corner of my eyes and the side of my face and wish it were smaller. I am sorry to hear some of the fat has dropped to give jowls. My Caucasian OH has jowls. The jowls lessened with the 5:2 diet. I used to drink diet coke a lot as a diet aid until I realised it has aspartame which may be linked to brain tumours and MS! I thought my weight would go up if I stopped drinking my one can a day of diet coke but it didn't!
> 
> A clinic in sk suggests I try threadlift face lift. Maybe as we age we cannot escape getting a lower facelift eventually. I worry that any facelift will bring more attention to my big wide cheeks!
> 
> I watched extreme beauty disasters last night and at the end a makeup team showed how to make ones eyes big with makeup, corner wings, irridescent shadow on the inner corner and bottom liner, eyeshadow on the outer lids, big lashes and realised that's how I do my makeup so big eyes then make the face appear smaller. I think my choices are get a revision rhino to make my nose big and long which will give the illusion that the face is smaller or get zygoma reduction to reduce the width of my face. Ideally it should be 14 cms for the golden ratio to apply to the height and width of the ideal face.



Do you have any more measurements for the Golden Ratio? Your wealth of information is so helpful. 

I now have to decide between Dr. Hong and Dr Seong at GNG.


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## catelet

MissOrange said:


> Aww @catelet, thank you so much for measuring your face width too! That is so reassuring that you too have the same measurement...twins! Yes Caucasians keep telling me people pay to have cheekbones like I have and I am like say what? I keep seeing the huge distance between my outer corner of my eyes and the side of my face and wish it were smaller. I am sorry to hear some of the fat has dropped to give jowls. My Caucasian OH has jowls. The jowls lessened with the 5:2 diet. I used to drink diet coke a lot as a diet aid until I realised it has aspartame which may be linked to brain tumours and MS! I thought my weight would go up if I stopped drinking my one can a day of diet coke but it didn't!
> 
> A clinic in sk suggests I try threadlift face lift. Maybe as we age we cannot escape getting a lower facelift eventually. I worry that any facelift will bring more attention to my big wide cheeks!
> 
> I watched extreme beauty disasters last night and at the end a makeup team showed how to make ones eyes big with makeup, corner wings, irridescent shadow on the inner corner and bottom liner, eyeshadow on the outer lids, big lashes and realised that's how I do my makeup so big eyes then make the face appear smaller. I think my choices are get a revision rhino to make my nose big and long which will give the illusion that the face is smaller or get zygoma reduction to reduce the width of my face. Ideally it should be 14 cms for the golden ratio to apply to the height and width of the ideal face.



MissOrange Thanks for the jowls tips! Thankfully mine only really show from the 3/4 view (or maybe I'm kidding myself haha), but I'll try your suggestions! I might be interested in a threadlift as well. I can't find a lot of information on this forum about facelifts/threadlifts but there's a lot of info on v-line and zygoma.

Like Eurasianbeauty mentioned above, I'd like to hear more about the golden ratio as well, if you feel so inclined!


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## kitty nyc

I’d like to know more about the golden ratio as well as how many people actually are born with those ideal measurements haha. I tried measuring my face and from edge to edge at the widest it’s only 13cm so also not ideal though funny enough I always thought I had wide cheekbones and was kinda proud of them lol


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## sanarae

@MissOrange: Thank you SO MUCH for your thread! OMG, I recognize you from RealSelf! You are so gorgeous. Not 'for your age' gorgeous, but just plain gorgeous, full stop!! What I really admire is your sense of aesthetics and art: you know the optimal aesthetics for your face. I also think it's terribly gracious how much info on your PS journey (good and not-so) you are willing to share with us.

Of course, everyone’s personal aesthetics are different, but the wide yet definitely still Korean eye, narrow (as opposed to wide) crease, tapered (as opposed to parallel) crease, is SO flattering on you (and of course the bigger the eye, the more space it takes up on the face, so the face looks smaller. Also, more iris show!) Some people a wide crease looks best... it varies, yeah? I'm half Korean, half Euro (Caucasian). Basically, your eye result is pretty much almost /exactly/ what I want - it's almost my original eye shape for the last 29 years (which should give you an idea of how young your eyes look now, lol). I'm in my 30s and I went through 2 stressful years: one day I looked into the mirror and thought, my God, when did my upper lid sulcus/hollowness become so pronounced? Why is my lid fold slanting past my outer canthus rather than terminating above it? It was like I'd suddenly got so old: I had an upper lid sulcus, my lids had folded oddly to their norm, my brows were low, I had ptosis in the right eye. I had checkups and, thank goodness, no neurological aetiology at play. 'stress can do things to a body' as one doctor put it.

I do want to add: for myself, my natural minilid crease & wide 'anime' (as it's been called) eye is WAY more youthful/suited to me (I mean, it's what I was born with!) than a wide crease; more iris show. I've been researching 3 doctors in the US who specialize/concentrate in the use of hyaluronic acid fillers in upper eye sulcus (this is a VERY delicate operation & all three specialize in it); the before & after are seriously impressive & just…miles more beautiful and youthful. Results last 1.5 – 2 yrs (wayyy longer than the same fillers in other regions of the face) due to peculiarities of the facial structure in the upper lids; there’s one dr who chronicles the journey of his patient immediately post-injection, at the 1 year mark, 2 years, & has his patients bring in pictures of their eyes at age 17 to mimic the lids then (!). I plan to consult with at least two (the ones whose aesthetics I prefer best) early next year. A thinner filler like Belotero is favored for precision, but some use Restalyne. I’m hesitant to recommend any of the doctors I’ve looked into yet, until I’ve met with them in person.

Personally, I’m frustrated as Seoul has the best ptosis/surgical approach suited to my natural eye shape - honestly, all I want is my original wide, tapered mini-double lid eye shape/crease back (i.e. no major alterations, which is actually something I fear; I’ve only seen/met less models than I can count on my fingers who have similar eye proportions to mine. Literally. I don't want to wake up with a different eye shape, however trendy). I’ve never seen anyone in the US who can pull off the results I’ve seen in Seoul for Asian/Eurasian eyes. However, due to my Eurasian thin skintype and the inconvenience of topping up a fat graft (I’m not like my relatives in Seoul who can just pop down the corner clinic), and unless professionally suggested otherwise, the hyaluronic upper lid fillers I researched in the US look like the best fit for myself personally. So it’s very much like, do I get the surgical ptosis/DES (and possible brow lift, chemical or surgical) first, or do I get the lids injected with filler to see how it goes because they can actually alter the fold in most cases. (Additionally, I'm unsure about where brow lifting would fit into this - it's why I want in-person consults as well as just emailing photos etc - I don't know how the Korean 'style' would fit, or if they could handle my thin wrinkle-prone skin.)
If your results are any indication, Korea & Dr Seo at MVP get the surgical minilid DES + ptosis correction right, but I also need a brow lift (Botox or surgical) - I don’t want to Botox them at the moment as I feel the alteration would interfere with an adequate assessment of my natural facial muscles/structure when I go to consults, so I’m stuck with droopy brows at the moment. I might do microcurrent. My Korean mother uses a home microcurrent device on her V-line and omg, it's made such a difference; her brows haven't drooped (why am I so phenotypically unlucky??) so she hasn't used it there, but I wonder if it would work on mine.

The last time I visited some PS clinics in Seoul was years ago – I was much younger then, and mostly concerned about a revision rhinoplasty (I broke my nose (I know this is such a common excuse, but I honestly did), was so freaked out that I had it patched up by a US surgeon with a good rep but insufficient experience, so it looked good for a while but had no structural support and started to get wonky). I went to some well-known clinics and they were all concerned about my thin skin, and while they all agreed on what had gone wrong initially, their proposals for correction ranged from 'uh, ok' to downright insane. HOWEVER - I think Korean clinics are more used to Caucasian noses and thin skin/different ethnic skintypes by now. (They didn't even have translators in '09! I had to have a Seoul relative along). but thicker Asian skin drapes differently over structures than thinner skin does (e.g. why alloplastic facial implants look/drape more natural on Asians, imperfections are more visible on thin skin, etc – there’s a Cali surgeon who will tell everyone about this one US celeb who had crushed cartilage placed in her revision, only it wasn’t crushed finely enough so the unevenness not only showed through IRL and caught the lights oddly on camera, etc.)

- I know this is turning into a hodgepodge, but I’m seriously impressed at how well you know yourself and how beautiful your results are. Your bullhorn lip lift makes such a difference! Lately I’ve been seeing lip lifts on women I never realized had them done and I’m amazed at what a difference shortening the philtrum can make; your lips look so lush, fresh and youthful! (I should add I have a tape measure within reach, thinking to measure my philtrum, and I'm scared) Seriously…as soon as the lift healed, did you go out and buy an armload of new lip colors? I would totally do that, LOL.

- The temple fat grafts look really good. I have high cheekbones, but due to aging and stress, the fat in the temples has worn down and so I’ve lost that lovely smooth transition from temple to cheekbone, resulting in the optical illusion of a low cheek. Also, I love your forehead fat graft and I'm so glad it stayed!!! When I was checking out clinics in Seoul in '09 a lot of people asked if my forehead was a graft/silicone which I... hope was a compliment? (Then again, a girl pointed at me and said 'I want my eyes like hers'... if only you knew now  ) I'm honestly hoping for a miracle.... I want my eyes back, damn it. And my brows but that's like, you get a good injector, you know? I need an expert on my eyes if I want to look like a cross between a K-drama star/myself again. (My cousin, who's full Korean, had her eyes done to look like mine (I know how conceited that sounds ugh) and she woke up with parallel lids... she looks super cute and I think she actually wanted the parallel for some reason (mostly non-Korean locals request this, and she's a Seoul fashionista type) but it was a little random.)

- What glasses frames are you wearing BTW (kinda look like Prada Wanderers?) - I really like them - and is there any particular reason you choose to wear glasses in your media appearances? Also, which colored contact lenses are you wearing?



MissOrange said:


> Yes Caucasians keep telling me people pay to have cheekbones like I have and I am like say what?


I went to (well-known surgeon in Beverly Hills for revision rhino consult) and he was like, women pay for your cheekbones! I personally don't think you should do anything to yours, and I worry that revising your nose (which is really, really nice) might turn out making the tip more wide, less refined and basically what you sought to correct before, you know? Because yeah, shaving your zygoma/v-line/generally making your face smaller will make your eyes stand out as bigger just due to geometry (look at Han Ye Seul's evolution - ok, yeah, she did her eyes like a zillion times, but I mean the face shave bit), but your cheekbones and nose are very pretty and small. In terms of face/thread lift... have you been more inclined to Korean surgeons for this or Western ones? It does seem quite premature imho, but you know your face best.


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## MissOrange

Hi @sanarae,

The glasses are 99p from ebay china. They are sold on ebay uk but shipped from China! I chose them because they are the biggest glass frames I could find to disguise my wide cheekbones and needed them when I had a flat wide pancake face to add depth and a 3D dimension to my face. I am sure you can find them on ebay just keep looking for the exact match. My hobby is being a bargain hunter! lol. The contact lenses are blue which reflects light better on the eyes and makes the eyes look bigger and brighter. I used to wear durasoft colours in aquamarine but they discontinued the ones I used for years. Now I wear Freshlook colourblends in brilliant blue. My eyelashes are IPD 041 korean brand but again sold on ebay uk for about a £1 each. False eyelashes also improve the side profile as I was born with flat tiny lashes.

With hair framing my face I can give the illusion of reducing my 15.5 cms width face to 14 cms, ie reduce my face by approximately 1 cm on the left and right. But that means I can't wear earrings as I cannot put my hair behind my ears as this makes my face look wider!

I saw an instagram video of a filler being injected into the upper lid of an asian female while she was awake! Wow. It would be much cheaper than flying to korea and getting fat graft top ups but my experience with dermal fillers is they seem to last 4-6 months. If you do try hyaluronic acid fillers do let us know how they are.

If you flew to Korea, Dr Seo at MVP would give you back your beautiful natural eyes with des, ptosis correction and fat graft to lids in a one week trip and it would be done. Pull your eyelid skin out. If you can stretch it a lot, excision des is needed to remove the excess wrinkly saggy skin. Fat graft or dermal injections can reinflate the space but imo needs excision too as fat graft or fillers may make the heavy lids droop especially if you have not excised skin.

The golden ratio is 1.618. The length of your face vs the width should be 1.618. One can use hair styles to frame the face or add height to create this too. Google for more golden ratio face measurements for eyes, nose, etc.


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## MissOrange

Hi @eurasianbeauty I love your instagram b&a's! Here is a link to a golden ratio calculator https://facethis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/perfect-face-golden-ratio-beauty.html @kitty nyc 13 cms can be perfect. Just need to measure the height of your head too. If it is 21 cms you are perfect at 1.61.  My face height is 20 cms but use the head length for the golden ratio. For me, my head length is 24.5 cms so combined with a width of 15.5 actually gives me a ratio of 1.58. This means I must wear my hair flat on the sides so as not to add more width and keep volume on the top of my head. A small korean face is only 17 cms in height! But do not use the face length for the golden ratio or you will need a face width of 10.55 cms! And that is humanly impossible.


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## MissOrange

Here is the golden ratio calculator to help work out what may need attention. It appears my cheek width is fine and it is my eyes that are not wide enough! Hm, lateral canthoplasty vs apply eye makeup to create wings to extend the eyes laterally. Have a go yourself in front of a mirror with a tape measure. Numbers 13 and 14 should be the sides of your lips from one corner to the other and not the height.


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## MissOrange

I have just learned how to put together a collage of photos. Okay so no matter how old or ugly you get with aging like I got, remember you can transform into a young swan! I feel so bad when I see photos of botched plastic surgery as I know it can be done safely and well if you pick the right surgeon and clinic for each procedure. If you would like me to give my honest opinion as to what would improve your face aesthetics, do send me a private message. There is hope in S Korea and the best clinics are mvp (for eyes, lid fat graft and primary rhino Dr Seo), smps (Dr Lee for big creases), and gng (Hong for revision rhino and Choi for v line). I had surgery at MVP but based on results of ladies I have chatted with and seen before and afters, I can recommend these other clinics too. I have not included any big clinics that in my opinion may be overcharging foreigners. Good luck on your journey to transform. Decades of chronic stress aged me a lot! The old face was taken in January 2016 and the next in July 2016 after MVP in May and July and the last with blue eyes was taken recently.


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## sunny68

MissOrange said:


> I have just learned how to put together a collage of photos. Okay so no matter how old or ugly you get with aging like I got, remember you can transform into a young swan! I feel so bad when I see photos of botched plastic surgery as I know it can be done safely and well if you pick the right surgeon and clinic for each procedure. If you would like me to give my honest opinion as to what would improve your face aesthetics, do send me a private message. There is hope in S Korea and the best clinics are mvp (for eyes, lid fat graft and primary rhino Dr Seo), smps (Dr Lee for big creases), and gng (Hong for revision rhino and Choi for v line). I had surgery at MVP but based on results of ladies I have chatted with and seen before and afters, I can recommend these other clinics too. I have not included any big clinics that in my opinion may be overcharging foreigners. Good luck on your journey to transform. Decades of chronic stress aged me a lot! The old face was taken in January 2016 and the next in July 2016 after MVP in May and July and the last with blue eyes was taken recently.





MissOrange said:


> I have just learned how to put together a collage of photos. Okay so no matter how old or ugly you get with aging like I got, remember you can transform into a young swan! I feel so bad when I see photos of botched plastic surgery as I know it can be done safely and well if you pick the right surgeon and clinic for each procedure. If you would like me to give my honest opinion as to what would improve your face aesthetics, do send me a private message. There is hope in S Korea and the best clinics are mvp (for eyes, lid fat graft and primary rhino Dr Seo), smps (Dr Lee for big creases), and gng (Hong for revision rhino and Choi for v line). I had surgery at MVP but based on results of ladies I have chatted with and seen before and afters, I can recommend these other clinics too. I have not included any big clinics that in my opinion may be overcharging foreigners. Good luck on your journey to transform. Decades of chronic stress aged me a lot! The old face was taken in January 2016 and the next in July 2016 after MVP in May and July and the last with blue eyes was taken recently.[/QUOTE


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## sunny68

Hi Ms. Orange. Your transformation is just amazing, How can I private message you, click on your photo and start conversation??


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## digitalashes

Hi Ms. Orange. Your pics are amazing, all of your surgeries are great. Can I send you a private message? I’ve had issues with FG in the past and would like your opinion.


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## eurasianbeauty

MissOrange said:


> Hi @eurasianbeauty I love your instagram b&a's! Here is a link to a golden ratio calculator https://facethis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/perfect-face-golden-ratio-beauty.html @kitty nyc 13 cms can be perfect. Just need to measure the height of your head too. If it is 21 cms you are perfect at 1.61.  My face height is 20 cms but use the head length for the golden ratio. For me, my head length is 24.5 cms so combined with a width of 15.5 actually gives me a ratio of 1.58. This means I must wear my hair flat on the sides so as not to add more width and keep volume on the top of my head. A small korean face is only 17 cms in height! But do not use the face length for the golden ratio or you will need a face width of 10.55 cms! And that is humanly impossible.



Thanks! I am using the GR to tend to different parts of my face. For example the eyes are supposed to be the length of one eye apart. So I am having lateral canthoplasty done to make my eyes bigger. For my nose, I've had it done a few times, but my alars are still too wide. The should end where my eyes start, but right now they do not. For my lips they are full, but both top and bottom are too full. the magical measurements are 1:1.6. I also have no Cupid's Bow. I feel in fixing all of this that my face will be more pleasing.


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## MissOrange

digitalashes said:


> Hi Ms. Orange. Your pics are amazing, all of your surgeries are great. Can I send you a private message? I’ve had issues with FG in the past and would like your opinion.


Hi @digitalashes and @sunny68 yes to send a private message, click on my name under my photo and then click start a conversation. Happy to help if I can.

Hi @eurasianbeauty yes you are right. There are additional measurements for the eye length as you say and for the nose width to be the same as the distance between your 2 eyes. Also the inner corner of the eyebrows should start inside the width of the nose. Looks like I need to start pencilling my brows further inward! lol


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## Hoeeekage

MissOrange said:


> I have just learned how to put together a collage of photos. Okay so no matter how old or ugly you get with aging like I got, remember you can transform into a young swan! I feel so bad when I see photos of botched plastic surgery as I know it can be done safely and well if you pick the right surgeon and clinic for each procedure. If you would like me to give my honest opinion as to what would improve your face aesthetics, do send me a private message. There is hope in S Korea and the best clinics are mvp (for eyes, lid fat graft and primary rhino Dr Seo), smps (Dr Lee for big creases), and gng (Hong for revision rhino and Choi for v line). I had surgery at MVP but based on results of ladies I have chatted with and seen before and afters, I can recommend these other clinics too. I have not included any big clinics that in my opinion may be overcharging foreigners. Good luck on your journey to transform. Decades of chronic stress aged me a lot! The old face was taken in January 2016 and the next in July 2016 after MVP in May and July and the last with blue eyes was taken recently.


Your results are amazing! How much did you pay for all of it? (Sorry if you've already said!)


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## MissOrange

Hoeeekage said:


> Your results are amazing! How much did you pay for all of it? (Sorry if you've already said!)


Hi @Hoeeekage, I paid MVP 3 million won (£1.67k exchange rate in 2016) for ptosis correction, fat graft to lid and revision des, I paid Dr Ion in the UK £10k for rib rhino and chin shaving with sonopet. I paid Dr Caroline Mills £2.4k for lip lift. Total was £14k. I used part of my korean inheritance to fund. The full face fat graft x 3 at DA was 3.5 million (£2.5k 2017 exchange rate) after extremely hard negotiations so I guess a total of £16.5k. That would be the price of one facelift in the UK so I figured better to get each feature rejuvenated. Oh I forgot, I had a hair transplant in the UK for £4k so a total of £20.5k. I think I might have saved a little bit had I known about Korea before my rhino and chin op in the UK. I think in SK a rib rhino and chin would have cost 5-8 million won and 3-5 million won or 8-13 million won for both or £6-9k but then there would have been flights and hotels to cover. The chin shaving was definitely better to do in the uk as there was no bruising, no swelling and no recovery time. Perhaps I would not have had the nose abscess had I had rib rhino in SK?


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on bum lifts. In kakao groups there was a lot of talk about Brazilian bum lifts. I thought to myself that over time weight in the bum may cause sagging and we older adjummas are constantly fighting gravity! Then I looked into lipopro firm a machine that alleges to heat up fat cells and dissipate in the lymphatics. Model Katie Price had hers done by Shane Cooper (see her ig photo attached). I then emailed Shane and he charges £300/treatment which is 3x the going rate of £80-£100 per treatment. From what I read it takes 3-8 treatments depending on how much cellulite and sagging one has. I was about to book the £80 offer with a clinic in Knightsbridge when I asked my OH to take a photo to see how bad my behind looked. I rarely look at my backside. Ladies in their 50s try to avoid looking there! And lo and behold I looked at the photo he took and no way! Wow I don't need it. The indentations are from the panty lines as I have lifted the panty out of the way for the photo. Ladies in their 50s wear big panties! lol. This means walking exercise and having stairs at home are natural free methods to give yourself a bum lift and slim thighs!!! I do NOT use the treadmill as in my opinion, jogging can harm the knee joints in the long run. So for ladies who are in their 40s and 50s try walking exercise and stairs! I was so afraid to look at my bum thinking it had sagged to mid thigh in my old age! After seeing that episode of sex in the city where samantha is in the bedroom with an old gentleman and sees his saggy bottom, I have nightmares of ageing doing that to my bum! There is hope ladies!


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## MissOrange

My goal in sharing my frank photos and experiences is to ensure young girls get safe plastic surgery and no botches, and for older ladies to rejuvenate and look and feel better. I know what it is like to experience botched surgeries (financial waste in the £1000s, depression from empty sagging breast sacs x months post removal of ruptured implants, etc.) and also know how it feels to be old, ugly or invisible in public. I have had a group of random young guys start seeing the 'who let the dogs out' and laugh at me as I walked by them in London, have been ignored when it was my turn to pay at the counter in a department store, have been ignored by waiters in a tea room, etc. If you can raise the money to transform yourself, it is 100% worth it as this society does not treat aging women well. Perhaps it is different outside the UK, but knowing you can transform yourself with modern surgical advances, I would say go for it!


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## eurasianbeauty

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on bum lifts. In kakao groups there was a lot of talk about Brazilian bum lifts. I thought to myself that over time weight in the bum may cause sagging and we older adjummas are constantly fighting gravity! Then I looked into lipopro firm a machine that alleges to heat up fat cells and dissipate in the lymphatics. Model Katie Price had hers done by Shane Cooper (see her ig photo attached). I then emailed Shane and he charges £300/treatment which is 3x the going rate of £80-£100 per treatment. From what I read it takes 3-8 treatments depending on how much cellulite and sagging one has. I was about to book the £80 offer with a clinic in Knightsbridge when I asked my OH to take a photo to see how bad my behind looked. I rarely look at my backside. Ladies in their 50s try to avoid looking there! And lo and behold I looked at the photo he took and no way! Wow I don't need it. The indentations are from the panty lines as I have lifted the panty out of the way for the photo. Ladies in their 50s wear big panties! lol. This means walking exercise and having stairs at home are natural free methods to give yourself a bum lift and slim thighs!!! I do NOT use the treadmill as in my opinion, jogging can harm the knee joints in the long run. So for ladies who are in their 40s and 50s try walking exercise and stairs! I was so afraid to look at my bum thinking it had sagged to mid thigh in my old age! After seeing that episode of sex in the city where samantha is in the bedroom with an old gentleman and sees his saggy bottom, I have nightmares of ageing doing that to my bum! There is hope ladies!



OMG, that episode was on last night. LMAO. 

I love your posts, they are so informative. I am moving to Britain in about a year and a half, so I may have to PM you!


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## MissOrange

eurasianbeauty said:


> OMG, that episode was on last night. LMAO.
> 
> I love your posts, they are so informative. I am moving to Britain in about a year and a half, so I may have to PM you!


Definitely look me up when you move to the UK! I can't talk about plastic surgery with my regular friends as they never had it and have no interest! lol. Too funny that THE SATC episode was on last night where you were. It really was a shocker and one that has been embedded in my mind permanently. I am now really phobic about ageing and will fight it tooth and nail!


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## velvettini

I just tried the ratio calculator and surprisingly, all the stuff I'm planning to do would help better my ratio!
Seems like I did my research right. 
Knowing what you NEED to get done rather than what you want, even if it's hard to accept sometimes, I call that the art of plastic surgery. For example, a person with a long face won't ever have a round one (nope, no doll face for me), but working with the golden ratio, can certainly become more attractive. 

MissOrange, thank you for sharing so much info here.


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## MissOrange

jacque1969 said:


> Thank you sharing! I'm super interested in lifting surgery. How is your scar? This is only thing scares me..


Hi @jacque1969 

I have been applying kelocote gel twice a day for the past few weeks now on the keloid bullhorn liplift scar and it is helping very slowly. I feel optimistic about continuing the tube of gel for 2 more months.


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## niniwowo

Good day @MissOrange , I am 40 years old and am seriously considering doing fat graft. I am doing some research and thank God I chance upon your sharing in purseforum. You look seriously amazing now. 
May I ask how did you find the results from MVP? 
and if its Doc Seo who preformed the surgery? 
Thank you and looking forward to your reply


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## MissOrange

niniwowo said:


> Good day @MissOrange , I am 40 years old and am seriously considering doing fat graft. I am doing some research and thank God I chance upon your sharing in purseforum. You look seriously amazing now.
> May I ask how did you find the results from MVP?
> and if its Doc Seo who preformed the surgery?
> Thank you and looking forward to your reply


Hi @niniwowo I had my eyelid fat graft and top up at MVP with Dr Seo. Yes absolutely happy to recommend Dr Seo for eyelid fat graft. I haven't tried him for full face fat graft yet. I tried full face fat graft at DAPRS but they are now too expensive for foreigners and the fat graft to the mid to lower face reabsorbed even after 3 surgeries/visits to DAPRS so for the lower face, ie nasolabial I would recommend dermal fillers. I have radiesse dermal filler to fill out my nasolabial area. Some get paranasal silicone implants in SK but I seem prone to postop infection so would rather not have implants in my face. Good luck on your rejuvenation journey!


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## MissOrange

velvettini said:


> I just tried the ratio calculator and surprisingly, all the stuff I'm planning to do would help better my ratio!
> Seems like I did my research right.
> Knowing what you NEED to get done rather than what you want, even if it's hard to accept sometimes, I call that the art of plastic surgery. For example, a person with a long face won't ever have a round one (nope, no doll face for me), but working with the golden ratio, can certainly become more attractive.
> 
> MissOrange, thank you for sharing so much info here.


Thank you @velvettini. Very nice of you to thank me for sharing! Passing on the love. Yes the GR prevents girls from getting things done that they don't need. PS can be very addictive so the GR keeps one in line and realistic! Glad my posts are helping you be safe on your journey!


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## MissOrange

If you are a parent about to embark on dramatic rejuvenation, be prepared for your teenage or adult children to start not listening to you when you suddenly look their ages! As dad looks his age at almost 60, my adult daughters listen to him without back talk. I guess I don't blame them when I look like a kid instead of their ageing 50s mum! lol.

Post-menopause now, I have noticed my hair is thinning. I am trying to work out if it is good or not good to air dry one's hair. I know it damages hair to brush it when wet so have been using a wide toothed comb. I think it is imperative to keep your hair long to look younger. I used to get blowdries once a week but I noticed the stylists really tug at the hair so shall give my hair a rest from blowdries. I do not wear any extensions and used to hate my thick hair when younger as it always got into knots. But that was because I did not know to use conditioner after each hair wash. I prefer l'oreal elvive shampoo and conditioner products and they have a repair conditioner that works in 2 minutes for dry hair! If you are lucky to have long hair, keep it long! You'll need as much hair as possible to make it through menopause and the drop in oestrogen.


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## MissOrange

I like the back of me as it looks so young and needs just L'oreal excellence natural light brown hair dye every 2 months. Much less work than facial rejuvenation in the front! If you are young try not to bleach your hair often, use hot tongs every day or get regular perms as it may catch up on you in your 40s. One lady in her 40s dyed her hair a lot and used tongs every day when younger and now has profound alopecia and hair thinning. She regrets what she did to her hair when in her 20s and 30s.


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## niniwowo

MissOrange said:


> Hi @niniwowo I had my eyelid fat graft and top up at MVP with Dr Seo. Yes absolutely happy to recommend Dr Seo for eyelid fat graft. I haven't tried him for full face fat graft yet. I tried full face fat graft at DAPRS but they are now too expensive for foreigners and the fat graft to the mid to lower face reabsorbed even after 3 surgeries/visits to DAPRS so for the lower face, ie nasolabial I would recommend dermal fillers. I have radiesse dermal filler to fill out my nasolabial area. Some get paranasal silicone implants in SK but I seem prone to postop infection so would rather not have implants in my face. Good luck on your rejuvenation journey!


Thank you so much for replying me @MissOrange 
I think I will go to Doc Seo for full fat graft if the price is right!


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## catelet

Missorange Caroline Mills did such a wonderful job on your lip lift! I want one now, too.  Do you mind if I ask how long after your lip surgery with Dr. Choi did you have to wait before having your lip lift with Dr. Mills?


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Missorange Caroline Mills did such a wonderful job on your lip lift! I want one now, too.  Do you mind if I ask how long after your lip surgery with Dr. Choi did you have to wait before having your lip lift with Dr. Mills?


Hi @catelet, I waited 6 months. I chatted with 2 of Dr Mills' prior lip lift patients on realself and saw their b&a's and confirmed that the lip lift did last and did not drop so I was 100% reassured. Although one of the 2 patients did have a scar revision done a year later so I had prepared myself for a prominent scar but felt this was a small price to pay to reduce a super long 20 mm philtrum. She does dramatic lip lifts. I don't think ps in sk would take off so much skin and deep tissue as she does and in sk they may refuse to do bullhorn for fear of dissatified patients complaining of visible scars/keloids.


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## catelet

MissOrange said:


> Hi @catelet, I waited 6 months. I chatted with 2 of Dr Mills' prior lip lift patients on realself and saw their b&a's and confirmed that the lip lift did last and did not drop so I was 100% reassured. Although one of the 2 patients did have a scar revision done a year later so I had prepared myself for a prominent scar but felt this was a small price to pay to reduce a super long 20 mm philtrum. She does dramatic lip lifts. I don't think ps in sk would take off so much skin and deep tissue as she does and in sk they may refuse to do bullhorn for fear of dissatified patients complaining of visible scars/keloids.



Thank you MissOrange! This is a procedure I look forward to having, and hope I can get as good a result as you have!!!


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## MissOrange

@catelet it has been a month now applying kelocote gel on my liplift scar and I can confidently say it is working. The scar appears smaller! This is good news for anyone contemplating bullhorn liplift. Just apply kelocote as soon as you are allowed after surgery. I was a bit late applying it in my 11th month postop but it is still working.

Yesterday I remeasured the width of my face and was astounded to see it had gone down from 15.5 cms to 14.5 cms! I noticed that my weight had gone down to 97/98 lbs this week or a bmi of 18.4. I know my korean cousin who is my height weighs only 95 lbs and has a very small face so maybe some girls have small faces due to being very underweight! Then the question to ask yourself if you have a big or wide face is do you undergo zygoma reduction or v line bone surgery or do you try to be underweight?

My face definitely looks smaller without zygoma reduction surgery!


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## the walker

you look perfect


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## MissOrange

the walker said:


> you look perfect


thanks @the walker. I have started taking korean language classes and want to fly back to korea next year but I don't have anything that needs fixing yet. The fat graft in the eyelids are starting to reabsorb so maybe I can pay for a topup next spring. Plastic surgery can be very addictive. Am fighting the urge to fly back.


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## the walker

MissOrange said:


> thanks @the walker. I have started taking korean language classes and want to fly back to korea next year but I don't have anything that needs fixing yet. The fat graft in the eyelids are starting to reabsorb so maybe I can pay for a topup next spring. Plastic surgery can be very addictive. Am fighting the urge to fly back.



Yeah I see. I can only say, you dont need any further surgery. Just enjoy your appearence.


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## MissOrange

For those who have had rhino and are concerned about tip swelling or shape, here is a collage of photos of my nose taken in December 2016 on the left and before philtrum reduction (7 months post revision rhino where it looks swollen and undefined) and October 2017 on the bottom right after philtrum reduction with bullhorn liplift (17 months post revision rhino where it has a defined tip). I am comparing my profile to the supermodel Marie Helvin who has the closest match to my face (top right) in my journey to facial perfection. The good news is that the nose continues to define up to 17 months post rhino so do wait at least a year before you consider revision. The sides of my tip are now soft and the only firm area is the columella support and the tip which is fine. I am happy with my young small nose and will not get revision to make it long.


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## Charlotterria

Hi Missorange
I have read the whole thread and thank you for giving so much wonderful advise.

You mentioned that you are taking L-lysine and Vitamin C. Do you take them in tablet or powder form? I was in Absorbic Acid powder for six months before I stopped and looked super fair then. You make me want to start again...


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## K Couture

Im getting pretty ancient myself and ive noticed, especially after my facelift is that the skin texture makes such a huge difference too. 

So I absolutely love love love my facelift. Its put me back to my 20s age yayy. Anyways I began to think if I can always look like im in my 20s. Answer is a probably not. Even if I keep doing facelifts i can never keep retaining my 20s look. I have yet to see anyone in their 50s 60s 70s who still look like in their 20s. I know its not humanly possible, even Cher don't look young no more lol. 

I believe that while you can keep tightening your skin, the skin texture still continues to  show signs of aging. I do not have 20s skin. The soft smooth texture with small pores isn't there anymore. Im probably going to try to use stem injections on a very regular basis, maybe once every 3 weeks instead of once every 6 months just to see if it can give me some sort of reversal effect. Gonna be expensive but my vanity is driving me to try anything haha


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## MissOrange

Charlotterria said:


> Hi Missorange
> I have read the whole thread and thank you for giving so much wonderful advise.
> 
> You mentioned that you are taking L-lysine and Vitamin C. Do you take them in tablet or powder form? I was in Absorbic Acid powder for six months before I stopped and looked super fair then. You make me want to start again...


Hi @Charlotterria, I am not good at taking tablets especially huge size. I worry I will choke or inhale it into my lungs by mistake! I stopped L-lysine though I know I should restart. I take vitamin C either in powder form or tablet, vitamin D and fish oils once a day if I remember to. It is really hard to swallow huge tablets so some days I just skip it. If I start getting hip pain, it reminds me to take the vitamin D. If I feel low, I take vitamin B complex. If I have been out in the cold too long, it reminds me to take high dose vitamin C to prevent a cold, etc. I now eat salmon sushi for lunch and salmon spaghetti for dinner which gives me natural omega 3 and keeps my weight at a bmi of 18.4 or 97.6 lbs today.


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> Im getting pretty ancient myself and ive noticed, especially after my facelift is that the skin texture makes such a huge difference too.
> 
> So I absolutely love love love my facelift. Its put me back to my 20s age yayy. Anyways I began to think if I can always look like im in my 20s. Answer is a probably not. Even if I keep doing facelifts i can never keep retaining my 20s look. I have yet to see anyone in their 50s 60s 70s who still look like in their 20s. I know its not humanly possible, even Cher don't look young no more lol.
> 
> I believe that while you can keep tightening your skin, the skin texture still continues to  show signs of aging. I do not have 20s skin. The soft smooth texture with small pores isn't there anymore. Im probably going to try to use stem injections on a very regular basis, maybe once every 3 weeks instead of once every 6 months just to see if it can give me some sort of reversal effect. Gonna be expensive but my vanity is driving me to try anything haha


Hi @KCouture, what an honour hearing from you and that you have read my posts. I read yours first!  I know it is only time before I try a smas facelift. I heard that threadlifts last 2 years and smas facelift lasts 5 years so I am trying to hold off as smas facelift can be expensive. In the UK it is £10,000-£12,000!

I am debating whether to fly back to MVP early next year as my lid fat graft is reabsorbing and for the first time a stranger thought I was in my 30s because of the hollows starting to reappear! I am having to wear a lot of eye makeup and the rim of the glasses hides the hollow. I researched teosyal filler in the UK and a doctor says he would charge £400 to inject in the eyelid sulcus but that the results may not work and that there is swelling. Ladies who live in SK are very lucky to be able to pop into a clinic for fat graft top up twice a year.

Out of curiosity where did you go for your facelift and who was your plastic surgeon? How much does it cost in SK?


----------



## MissOrange

The top photo is of my eyelids needing fat graft top up at mvp in April 2017. It was taken at Heathrow before I boarded my flight and the next photo is of my eyelids a week later as I boarded my flight from SK back to London. As you can see fat graft is not permanent to the lids and needs top up. It did not get as hollow as before I had my first eyelid fat graft in May 2016 but it did reabsorb some. It is now 8 months since the April top up and again, I am seeing reabsorption so am debating teosyal vs fly back to SK early next year. Once you have had young eyes, you are addicted to wanting it permanently. I kept my weight the same for each trip to Korea, ie at 99 lbs to exclude weight gain or loss as a factor.


----------



## VJaw

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @loves. I owe the transformation to MVP clinic and DAPRS clinic.


You look amazing! I admire you!


----------



## VJaw

MissOrange said:


> Yes, a friend had full face fat graft at MVP (most valuable plastic) surgery clinic at around the same time I had my third top up at DA and it has lasted. In future I shall go to MVP fo full face fat graft top ups. The eyelid fat graft top up at MVP has also lasted so I should have stuck with MVP for the rest of my face. And she got her thighs bandaged and taped so less bruising to the lower extremities.


At what age do you feel that Facial Fat Transfer is worth it?


----------



## catelet

@MissOrange I am happy to hear the scar gel is working! Woohoo! I like the pic of you with the model--you do look alike!! You're so beautiful!

Again, I am so glad that you are so transparent about your procedures and where you had them done as well. It helps so many of us. THANK YOU!!!  

PS  I would also like to know where @K Couture had her facelift done! I am definitely in the market for one next year I believe....


----------



## MissOrange

VJaw said:


> At what age do you feel that Facial Fat Transfer is worth it?


Hi @VJaw, thank you for your comments. I think the moment you see hollowing of your eyelid sulci, hollowing of the temples, ridging of the brow, and sagging of the lower face is when you need fat transfer. For me this was at age 50 but I would have had this done sooner had I known about it, so I would say 40s.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange I am happy to hear the scar gel is working! Woohoo! I like the pic of you with the model--you do look alike!! You're so beautiful!
> 
> Again, I am so glad that you are so transparent about your procedures and where you had them done as well. It helps so many of us. THANK YOU!!!
> 
> PS  I would also like to know where @K Couture had her facelift done! I am definitely in the market for one next year I believe....


You're welcome @catelet. Thank you for your feedback. And yes, I too need to research smas facelifts next. I am hoping to wait until I am 60 to get a facelift but best to be prepared as I do notice my lower face starting to sag. BQQ had her facelift at regen but I don't know which surgeon and also she is a lot younger than I am. Better to find someone close to my age who had a successful facelift in SK and find out how much, who did the operation and which clinic. Hoping to hear from @K Couture as this would benefit all us adjummas!


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @KCouture, what an honour hearing from you and that you have read my posts. I read yours first!  I know it is only time before I try a smas facelift. I heard that threadlifts last 2 years and smas facelift lasts 5 years so I am trying to hold off as smas facelift can be expensive. In the UK it is £10,000-£12,000!
> 
> I am debating whether to fly back to MVP early next year as my lid fat graft is reabsorbing and for the first time a stranger thought I was in my 30s because of the hollows starting to reappear! I am having to wear a lot of eye makeup and the rim of the glasses hides the hollow. I researched teosyal filler in the UK and a doctor says he would charge £400 to inject in the eyelid sulcus but that the results may not work and that there is swelling. Ladies who live in SK are very lucky to be able to pop into a clinic for fat graft top up twice a year.
> 
> Out of curiosity where did you go for your facelift and who was your plastic surgeon? How much does it cost in SK?



Girl I was gonna do it in Australia with Brian Mendelson cos he did such a good job on me last time. But when I was given the price this time around I was face palming myself. His consultant was like "So Dr Mendelson will be retiring after he does another 100 of these facelifts and after that he will only do more simple procedures like lower blehpharoblasty. The price for your procedures not including the anesthesiologist fee (which is like 1500 aussie dollars btw) is 50000 dollars (or was it 45? I cant remember the exact amount but it was within with range)". I legit jaw dropped it was like ridiculous. I was like thinking......I could buy a car, or many lv bags, or some new bling for myself.........So yeah I ended up doing it in Seoul but very very happy with my results. I did the face and neck lift at the same time cos my double chin was showing QQ

Honestly for that  price in UK, if you use a very reputable senior or professor level surgeon in Seoul who specializes in the SMAS its only slightly cheaper by a few mill krw won. You can't get it dirt cheap with surgeons like that in Seoul.

I don't bother with threads because I never see a difference. Like its so mild that I feel its a waste of money. My expectations is go big or go home. For my lifting at least. I wanted a dramatic lift to push back aging and its done the job. 

Have you tried the Rejuran injections before? Im gonna be in Seoul next month to do my Breast and besides doing some stem cell into my face I'm planning to inject 4 ccs of Rejuran all over my face. I know it sounds like overkill but I think you would know where i'm coming from. You seem just as obsessed as I am lol


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> I am debating whether to fly back to MVP early next year as my lid fat graft is reabsorbing and for the first time a stranger thought I was in my 30s because of the hollows starting to reappear!



I wish I can have this same "problem" when I am in my 50s! 

How long do you estimate your eye lid fat graft lasts?


----------



## Gats

K Couture said:


> Have you tried the Rejuran injections before? Im gonna be in Seoul next month to do my Breast and besides doing some stem cell into my face I'm planning to inject 4 ccs of Rejuran all over my face. I know it sounds like overkill but I think you would know where i'm coming from. You seem just as obsessed as I am lol



Where are you planning to get the stem cell injections? How much is it? Is it the same thing as PRP injections aka vampire face lift?  If you've done it before, would you say you can see the results? For how long? Or it more like wearing sunscreen where you don't see any immediate benefit but it's suppose to be good for you long term to help you stay looking younger for longer?


----------



## K Couture

Gats said:


> Where are you planning to get the stem cell injections? How much is it? Is it the same thing as PRP injections aka vampire face lift?  If you've done it before, would you say you can see the results? For how long? Or it more like wearing sunscreen where you don't see any immediate benefit but it's suppose to be good for you long term to help you stay looking younger for longer?


Its not immediate resuls. 2-3 weeks you can see it. They harvest stem cell from your fat then cultivate it in the lab. I think harvest can cultivate 4 sessions of injections. Different to PRP. I didnt find PRP that useful tbh. Didnt last long. Stem cells you meant to do it once every 4 - 6 months. But i want to do it once a month and see what happens. Initially i was thinking once every 2 weeks but the surgeon says thats a bit cray cray. 

also eyelid fg doesnt last that long i don't believe because that area is in constant motion.


----------



## VJaw

MissOrange said:


> Hi @VJaw, thank you for your comments. I think the moment you see hollowing of your eyelid sulci, hollowing of the temples, ridging of the brow, and sagging of the lower face is when you need fat transfer. For me this was at age 50 but I would have had this done sooner had I known about it, so I would say 40s.


@MissOrange What's your opinion on canthoplasty/canthoplexy (Lateral) in Korea. Is it permanent?


----------



## Gats

K Couture said:


> Its not immediate resuls. 2-3 weeks you can see it. They harvest stem cell from your fat then cultivate it in the lab. I think harvest can cultivate 4 sessions of injections. Different to PRP. I didnt find PRP that useful tbh. Didnt last long. Stem cells you meant to do it once every 4 - 6 months. But i want to do it once a month and see what happens. Initially i was thinking once every 2 weeks but the surgeon says thats a bit cray cray.



Interesting. Would you say the effect is to make your skin quality better, more firm or supple? How long does the effect last? Which clinic in Korea would you recommend getting it done? If the injections can be stored and used over 4 months, doing it once a month makes sense as I'd rather use them quickly rather than use a harvest taken over 6 months ago.


----------



## K Couture

I think all of the above. But previously I used stem cell from umbilical cord which my friend banked in........i know it sounds gross LOL. She just had a baby and banked it in so I asked if I could drain 8 million stem cells for it LOL. This was in Bangkok. But in Seoul it seems they inject as much as 20 million cells per session i believe? Im not 100% sure on this as I never had the chance to ask. But I also know that it kinda goes like this from best to worst:

Embryo > umbilical cord > placenta > Fat > Skin > Blood > Sheep > Plants 

I might be a bit off but its more or less something like this. 

There was one Japanese surgeon who mentioned a facility in cambodia who could get stem cell from human embryos, which is highly illegal in most countries. I honestly would try it except it sounds so dodgey and I really don't know if it has gone through proper testing for diseases so I never dared to go that route.

also the stem cell injection you can't wait 6 months to inject it, it wont be that good after so long


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> I think all of the above. But previously I used stem cell from umbilical cord which my friend banked in........i know it sounds gross LOL. She just had a baby and banked it in so I asked if I could drain 8 million stem cells for it LOL. This was in Bangkok. But in Seoul it seems they inject as much as 20 million cells per session i believe? Im not 100% sure on this as I never had the chance to ask. But I also know that it kinda goes like this from best to worst:
> 
> Embryo > umbilical cord > placenta > Fat > Skin > Blood > Sheep > Plants
> 
> I might be a bit off but its more or less something like this.
> 
> There was one Japanese surgeon who mentioned a facility in cambodia who could get stem cell from human embryos, which is highly illegal in most countries. I honestly would try it except it sounds so dodgey and I really don't know if it has gone through proper testing for diseases so I never dared to go that route.
> 
> also the stem cell injection you can't wait 6 months to inject it, it wont be that good after so long


Wow @K Couture you really are advanced in your research into rejuvenation! Thank you for your opinion on smas pricing in SK vs UK and on temporary thread lifting. Yes, I also agree eyelid fat grafting does not last and is not permanent. Your explanation of the lids being in constant motion makes total sense! This also explains why fat grafts in the  lower face around the mouth reabsorb quickly!  @Gats I would say eyelid fat grafting has lasted for 6-8 months for me. If I lived in SK I would have this every 6 months but as I live in the UK, I am looking at annual trips to SK for lid fat graft top ups as the flight and hotel costs more than the fat graft top up price. I will not get full face fg top ups anymore as I prefer radiesse filler for the nasolabial fold/crease and the skin sags and crinkles in the lower face with variable fat transfer and dehydration.


----------



## sunny68

MissOrange said:


> The top photo is of my eyelids needing fat graft top up at mvp in April 2017. It was taken at Heathrow before I boarded my flight and the next photo is of my eyelids a week later as I boarded my flight from SK back to London. As you can see fat graft is not permanent to the lids and needs top up. It did not get as hollow as before I had my first eyelid fat graft in May 2016 but it did reabsorb some. It is now 8 months since the April top up and again, I am seeing reabsorption so am debating teosyal vs fly back to SK early next year. Once you have had young eyes, you are addicted to wanting it permanently. I kept my weight the same for each trip to Korea, ie at 99 lbs to exclude weight gain or loss as a factor.


Hi Ms Orange, it's sad to hear that your eyelid FG does not last as I'm going to see Dr Seo next year. Do you mind sharing your recent photo.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Wow @K Couture you really are advanced in your research into rejuvenation! Thank you for your opinion on smas pricing in SK vs UK and on temporary thread lifting. Yes, I also agree eyelid fat grafting does not last and is not permanent. Your explanation of the lids being in constant motion makes total sense! This also explains why fat grafts in the  lower face around the mouth reabsorb quickly!  @Gats I would say eyelid fat grafting has lasted for 6-8 months for me. If I lived in SK I would have this every 6 months but as I live in the UK, I am looking at annual trips to SK for lid fat graft top ups as the flight and hotel costs more than the fat graft top up price. I will not get full face fg top ups anymore as I prefer radiesse filler for the nasolabial fold/crease and the skin sags and crinkles in the lower face with variable fat transfer and dehydration.


yeah my only reservation against fillers (even tho i use it all the time lol) is cos ive been told by western dermatologists that prolonged usage will cause residue which does not resorp to be stuck to the skin. So far ive been jabbing them into my nasofolds for over a year no issues. However i did a few injections into the lower lid which worked out fine until i smile then you can see the lump. I dissolved it already and its been a year but i have some remaining residue. I suspect it is because that region is very thin. Wouldnt jab it back imo


----------



## MissOrange

sunny68 said:


> Hi Ms Orange, it's sad to hear that your eyelid FG does not last as I'm going to see Dr Seo next year. Do you mind sharing your recent photo.


Hi @sunny68 I had eyelid fat grafting at mvp, then da, then mvp and as fat graft reabsorbs 50% with each filling, it makes sense that with each lid fat graft, one retains more overall until hopefully after a 4th or even 5th fg it will be at 100% permanently. I also noticed lid fat graft needs a lot of fluid intake as dehydration causes eyes to look sunken, ie with hollow lids. Here is a side by side of my lids now (top photo) and my lids back in April after MVP top up. I am excited to fly back in February as I know I shall have young eyes again then. As I call myself the Queen of Makeup, I can hide the hollowing in the lids with the top rim of my glasses and using eye shadow. My lids are way better than they were before I ever tried lid fat grafting so I would still definitely recommend lid fat grafting for adjummas like me! Just know that you may need to repeat trips to SK to build it up to 100% full as the eyes keep moving.


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## MissOrange

@sunny68 here is a photo of me 2 days ago with makeup and my glasses to hide the hollow. Looking good so I know a top up will be wonderful again.


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## MissOrange

Here is a photo from 2 days ago using eyeshadow to hide the slight hollowing in the upper lids until I get another top up in February. In my opinion, even when you get plastic surgery in sk, I would highly recommend learning how to apply makeup as even Hollywood stars all wear makeup and contouring, else you may spend several £10,000s in a constant holy grail to look 'naturally' genetically perfect which can never be permanent as time, gravity and aging are continual!

I have now worked out how to stay between 97 and 99 lbs without starving or hitting the gym. At 97 lbs the width of my face is 14.5 cms naturally without zygoma reduction and risk of skin sagging, and not my usual 15.5 cms at 100+ lbs, so it is an incentive to keep my weight down. 1. Drink water with all meals as it fills the tummy faster. 2. Eat fruit as snacks. A 400 g melon cup is only 56 calories. 3. Use stairs and walk! 4. Eat salmon for lunch and dinner...8 salmon hosomaki rolls at wasabi with water for lunch or one portion of japchae and for dinner salmon fillet spaghetti. 5. Eat one boiled egg for breakfast or a small banana. 6. If you have to eat mcdonalds then eat the happy meal size. And yes I eat icecream! A small tub of Haagen Daz is 260 calories. Age 51 looking 20s also means having the slim figure of a girl in her 20s and as we are too old to expend energy clubbing, we adjummas have to expend energy doing the housework and going for window shopping walking exercise. My new hobby that keeps me walking is bargain hunting in charity shops! Doesn't break the bank when you buy £5-£10 designer finds!


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## catelet

That's great MissOrange how you use eyeshadow. It's very effective--great result! 

I also enjoy bargain hunting--it's almost like a hobby to see what great deals I can get. Also, when you get a great deal, you don't have to worry so much about ruining a $20 lightly used/never worn designer item as opposed to buying it new at $500! Or further, later deciding you don't like it! Then it can simply be donated once more. 

Seeing your last picture (thanks for sharing), (I know you shared the pic in reference to your eyes, but it's hard not to notice your great-looking lips as well lol). May I ask if you do anything to your lower lip? I know you had the lip lift (very successful!), but your lower lip is also so nice and plump! I looked through the thread, and couldn't find any mention of you doing anything to your lower lip though--although I seem to think you may have mentioned using fat there? If I'm incorrect please let me know! Any recommendations for the rest of us? My lower lip is definitely thinning in the past year... They used to be pretty full naturally but I'm losing that plumpness now with age. Grrrr!



MissOrange said:


> Here is a photo from 2 days ago using eyeshadow to hide the slight hollowing in the upper lids until I get another top up in February. In my opinion, even when you get plastic surgery in sk, I would highly recommend learning how to apply makeup as even Hollywood stars all wear makeup and contouring, else you may spend several £10,000s in a constant holy grail to look 'naturally' genetically perfect which can never be permanent as time, gravity and aging are continual!
> 
> I have now worked out how to stay between 97 and 99 lbs without starving or hitting the gym. At 97 lbs the width of my face is 14.5 cms naturally without zygoma reduction and risk of skin sagging, and not my usual 15.5 cms at 100+ lbs, so it is an incentive to keep my weight down. 1. Drink water with all meals as it fills the tummy faster. 2. Eat fruit as snacks. A 400 g melon cup is only 56 calories. 3. Use stairs and walk! 4. Eat salmon for lunch and dinner...8 salmon hosomaki rolls at wasabi with water for lunch or one portion of japchae and for dinner salmon fillet spaghetti. 5. Eat one boiled egg for breakfast or a small banana. 6. If you have to eat mcdonalds then eat the happy meal size. And yes I eat icecream! A small tub of Haagen Daz is 260 calories. Age 51 looking 20s also means having the slim figure of a girl in her 20s and as we are too old to expend energy clubbing, we adjummas have to expend energy doing the housework and going for window shopping walking exercise. My new hobby that keeps me walking is bargain hunting in charity shops! Doesn't break the bank when you buy £5-£10 designer finds!


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> That's great MissOrange how you use eyeshadow. It's very effective--great result!
> 
> I also enjoy bargain hunting--it's almost like a hobby to see what great deals I can get. Also, when you get a great deal, you don't have to worry so much about ruining a $20 lightly used/never worn designer item as opposed to buying it new at $500! Or further, later deciding you don't like it! Then it can simply be donated once more.
> 
> Seeing your last picture (thanks for sharing), (I know you shared the pic in reference to your eyes, but it's hard not to notice your great-looking lips as well lol). May I ask if you do anything to your lower lip? I know you had the lip lift (very successful!), but your lower lip is also so nice and plump! I looked through the thread, and couldn't find any mention of you doing anything to your lower lip though--although I seem to think you may have mentioned using fat there? If I'm incorrect please let me know! Any recommendations for the rest of us? My lower lip is definitely thinning in the past year... They used to be pretty full naturally but I'm losing that plumpness now with age. Grrrr!


Hi @catelet, Thanks! Nothing surgical done to the lower lip. I have a habit of overdrawing my lips with lip liner and then filling it in. I rarely show anyone what I look like without the power of makeup. You can also try restylane filler for your lips. I haven't had any restylane since my bullhorn lip lift in January. I have been calculating that the philtrum sags by 1 mm every 3 years from the age of 20. And starts to look old at over 15 mms. Haven't calculated how fast the nose tip droops over time yet.

My best recent bargain buy was a £9.99 beautiful long red evening dress from the British Heart Foundation charity shop! Yes none of the guilt of spending £100s or £1000s on designer clothes or bags! And more to spend on ps.


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## MissOrange

Oh my goodness! I just found this definition of the korean ajumma! I may be a 51 yo ajumma in chronological years, but I certainly don't look like these ladies and will fight aging all the way and without breaking the bank! If I can do it, any ajumma can too!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on using weight loss to achieve facial contouring. The more weight I lose, the more the sagging in the lower face is disappearing and the bigger my nose looks. This makes sense as when I lose weight my upper arm loose batwings disappear so it is not too late to use weight loss to tighten loose facial skin. I am now at a bmi of 18.4 or 97.6 lbs and have taken photos this morning of me without makeup. Yep WITHOUT makeup! I can't believe I don't look as ugly as I thought. Weight loss actually leads to a prettier and smaller face! I don't mean become underweight but try to get to the lower range of normal and see if you really need a facelift or bone surgery like zygoma reduction or v line. You can also see that even though I have booked eyelid fat graft top up for February, my lids are still better than they were before any fat graft so I can definitely recommend eyelid fat graft to look younger.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on the perfect nose. Time to measure your nose angles. For ladies it should be 106 degrees and for men 90 degrees. I found some perfect noses on the GNG instagram and put together my photos to compare. What it showed me was that my nose angle from the left side was 135 degrees so very short and upturned and from the right side the angle is closer to normal. This explains my postop wonky nostrils as the left alar nostril is almost upright and the right alar nostril is in a more natural position. As revision rhino is extremely risky, I shall wait for ageing to lower my tip to 106 degrees by gravity, unless the rib reabsorbs and shortened my nose even more.


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## MissOrange

Today I decided to wear less eye makeup, ie no liner under the eyes and to not wear blue contacts. The question was could I look pretty as I try to morph back into a korean. I think I can actually try going out at night without caucasian blue contacts! The eyelid fat graft from mvp is at 80% as long as I keep up my water intake. I think next Feb's top up will achieve 100% permanently. Can't believe I am 51. I truly believe Dr Seo's eyelid fat graft and excising my extremely redundant wrinkled upper lids made a HUGE difference in reversing the decades. Ladies, only try fat graft in korea! Good places for fat graft based on people I have met in person are mvp, fresh, girin and april31. Remember, forehead, temples and upper lids only! If you get it injected into your cheeks they will stay chipmunk until you dramatically lose weight or suck it out. And the more you put into your lower face, the more the skin will sag when it disappears within a few months. I have reduced my weight to 97-98 lbs to keep my lower face from sagging and believe me now it is hard work to keep to this ridiculously low girlie weight!


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## MissOrange

Here are 2 scary old news photos of me...full face fat graft at DA gone wrong! Let this be a warning to you not to get full face fat graft as the effects are so unpredictable and your face will look fat and weird as parts dissolve (lower face looks wrinkly and saggy) while others (cheeks) look overfilled which then makes the nose look teeny in comparison or the small nose big face syndrome. I have had to wait months and lose weight below my wedding weight to get back a normal face! The short tip with wonky nostrils are care of Ion's rhino. Yes even a highly rated plastic surgeon can botch a nose! As I said, I shall have to live with the nostrils until I find a top notch revision rhino specialist in Korea who does rib graft with diced cartilage wrapped up with fascia. The nose is actually looking a bit bigger and better now that the fat graft is disappearing permanently.


----------



## SamH

Woooow

You look sooo good, especially in the picture where you have no makeup because it looks so natural. I just contacted MVP for fat graft and eyelid surgery and they're quite prompt. Did dr seo do your fat graft?

I'm also considering FRESH clinic. What do you think of them?


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## Gats

I can't say enough how much I appreciate MissOrange's sharing so much with us. One day I hope I get to be as secure with myself as you are to be able to share so much to benefit others.

Regarding the fat grafting, I think younger people can get away with full face FG due to their skin elasticity, but as you get older, I'd stick to the areas you mentioned (forehead, temples, upper lids) while avoiding the lower since it's prone to drooping if too much volume the skin can't support is added. Looking young is having that heart shaped face which we lose as we age, so plumping up the upper half and leaving the bottom alone should still yield good results.

Perhaps because they do more full face FGs of patients in their 20s they automatically recommend it but if you're older too. That all over baby face look does look more youthful but it's just not something you can maintain as you get older.


----------



## MissOrange

SamH said:


> Woooow
> 
> You look sooo good, especially in the picture where you have no makeup because it looks so natural. I just contacted MVP for fat graft and eyelid surgery and they're quite prompt. Did dr seo do your fat graft?
> 
> I'm also considering FRESH clinic. What do you think of them?


Hi @SamH, I met someone who had full face fg at FRESH with top up in September. Apparently Fresh is really close to MVP, ie around the corner I am told. But his eyelid fat graft had gone completely. His cheeks looked nice not overfilled. I think price wise both clinics are similar. I would personally go with MVP as you are getting eyelid surgery too and Dr Seo can do both in the same operation and you can ask for a discount for multiple ops. Yes Dr Seo did my eyelid fat graft and eyelid surgery. I am counting down the days to see him in Feb for an eyelid top up as believe it or not, I want a hooded younger look to my eyes. It will take the fat graft from 80% currently to a full 100%. @Gats thank you for your kind words. At my old age, it is normal to have some old ugly photos! lol. I don"t think young girls would want to share ugly photos and that is quite understandable but when you reach my age, it feels good to help others and yes photos help enormously. If I was stuck with an old ugly photo, no I would go away and hide but as I was able to have successful ps among my unsuccessful ones, I share freely so others can just follow my steps to rejuvenation. And yes, @Gats you make a good point! Young people have more skin elasticity so may be able to cope with full face fg better! Ooh and I like that point, heart shaped face with fg in the upper part. Yay!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on rhinoplasty and why you must only embark on this dangerous journey if your nose is severely deformed or broken. I am now 19 months post rhinoplasty with Ion and still look at my nose in the mirror each day asking myself if my nose is a good nose or a bad nose. I remember my consultation thinking oh wow you can give me a big nose. Sounds so simple. Wow, the morph picture shows a really big nose like magic. But when I went home and thought about it a little voice said, your little nose is fine, maybe you should cancel the rhino and just do the chin reduction. But then another voice said ooh nice big nose like Jun Ji Hyun and so simple to do. Just book, pay and wake up with Jun Ji Hyun's nose. And sure enough I did just that in March 2016 and woke up with Jun Ji Hyun's big nose that only lasted 2.5 weeks before it contracted and rotated up and stayed rotate up and short even after another rhino in May 2016.

It has been 19 months and I now ask myself whether the small short nose is actually better suited for my face? On my last trip to SK in April of this year I had booked consultations with tlps and gng to discuss zygoma reduction and revision rhino. Thank goodness I ran out of time to visit either as I could easily have ended up with further bone surgery and a different nose. But it does highlight how easily it is to be lured into a pursuit for the perfect nose. I then started reading all the Ion nose reviews on rs and why some were happy or unhappy with their noses. Sometimes I could see why they were unhappy, other times not and sometimes I couldn't see why they were happy with an imperfect nose and then even the ones who were initially unhappy eventually became happy with their noses! There didn't seem to be one perfect nose that fits all.

I think rhino is an extremely difficult operation and should only be contemplated in serious botched or deformed nose cases. It is not like trying on a dress and changing your mind and giving it away or refunding it. Once your nose is altered with surgery, because it is in the middle of your face and cannot be disguised with lipliner or false eyelashes, you have to see it every time you wash your face, brush your teeth, apply makeup or take a selfie. I can only alter it slightly with contouring.

Thank you readers who have been reassuring me that my nose is fine as it is and not to touch it. I think we all have blindspots and need a stranger to tell us what they see. Yes it could be improved but the price is too high of ending up with a nose one cannot live with and that risk makes rhino an extremely dangerous operation. And thank you readers and scrupulous clinics and max fax surgeon who said I do not need zygoma reduction. If you see someone who does not need a procedure, please continue to tell them so. It will sink in. Meanwhile here is a collage of an asian model with a nice big long nose and small face above one of my big Ion nose of 2.5 weeks and on the left my nose this week. The bottom photo is of my dream to look like Jun Ji Hyun!  No wonder I keep looking at my nose which looks like the exact opposite of her nose. lol. I think having doctor friends with serious life threatening illnesses puts things into better perspective.


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## MissOrange

I have uploaded a facetouchup app to morph the front of my face. I now know why I do not look so good from the front. The nose is too short (over-rotated) and piggy (too much nostril show). By using the morph to rotate and lower the tip, the face looks so much better on the right! But I have no confidence in finding a rhino specialist to achieve this for me for now. It is probably the toughest type of rhino to correct.


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## MissOrange

Oh my goodness no wonder I had second thoughts about rhinoplasty! These are my selfies from February 24, 2016! There was nothing wrong with my nose! I did not need rhinoplasty with Ion!!!


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## MissOrange

It is a shame I did not ask a stranger to check my blind spot last year. I went ahead with rhino with Ion in March to get a 'big nose'. He should have said there was nothing wrong with my nose? My Korean father had died in February 2016 and I was not in the right frame of mind. I see that now. I remember my doc friend even threatened to contact Ion to stop him from operating on my nose and was surprised he agreed to rhino. Here are the photos of the big nose postop in March. Wow I messed with a normal nose!


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## MissOrange

Maybe it was not bad luck but good luck that led to my nose getting infected and the graft contracting to give me back a more normal sized nose for my face! Please, think 10x before proceeding with rhino! You may never have needed it in the first place! I am shocked at this personal realisation and perhaps more so that Ion agreed to operate on a normal looking nose!


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## Luv n bags

Thank you for sharing your story.  Your nose looked pretty darn good without surgery.  I think we are our own worst critics!

If I had the money, I would do some of the things you have done.  Especially the FG around the eyes.

If it isn’t too personal to ask, how much have you spent on your rejuvenation? In US dollars? I am trying to figure out how much I need to save!


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## MissOrange

Hi @tigertrixie, ok slept on the realisation of how stupid I was last year to proceed with rhino and to proceed with full face fat graft. Funnily Ellen at MVP said no you do not need full face fat graft and then I went behind her back and got it done at DA x 3. Aargh. She was right. I just needed eyelid fat graft. So the question is how much have I wasted on unnecessary ops or ops that did not last. lol. In us dollars, I did not need the $10k rhino so cross that off your list if your nose is not grossly deformed. The minimum spend needed was revision des (blepharoplasty to excise excess wrinkly lid skin) and eyelid fat graft to fill out the hollow. That cost $2600 plus the hotel and flight to korea $1500 or $4100 total. If your philtrum is 20 mms long then do bullhorn liplift which cost me $3200. The vermillion lip lift was a wasted $2400 but then it did remove lip filler lumps so not entirely a wasted op. Now I do my own radiesse nasolabial dermal filler for $400 a year.


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## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Hi @tigertrixie, ok slept on the realisation of how stupid I was last year to proceed with rhino and to proceed with full face fat graft. Funnily Ellen at MVP said no you do not need full face fat graft and then I went behind her back and got it done at DA x 3. Aargh. She was right. I just needed eyelid fat graft. So the question is how much have I wasted on unnecessary ops or ops that did not last. lol. In us dollars, I did not need the $10k rhino so cross that off your list if your nose is not grossly deformed. The minimum spend needed was revision des (blepharoplasty to excise excess wrinkly lid skin) and eyelid fat graft to fill out the hollow. That cost $2600 plus the hotel and flight to korea $1500 or $4100 total. If your philtrum is 20 mms long then do bullhorn liplift which cost me $3200. The vermillion lip lift was a wasted $2400 but then it did remove lip filler lumps so not entirely a wasted op. Now I do my own radiesse nasolabial dermal filler for $400 a year.



The prices you quoted are cheap! In the US, everything is so much more.

I do not need eyelid surgery, however, I have friends that have done that.  The cost was double what you paid.  I also have friends that I suspect had full face FG.  For their age (mid 50’s), their faces are line free and puffy like a young baby.  Sometimes their faces look pudgier than normal.

The only thing I would like if FG around the eyes.  I spent too much time in the sun as a younger person.

How do yo do your own fillers?


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## MissOrange

Hi @tigertrixie, I am a doctor so dermal fillers are easy. Oddly dermal fillers may be purchased without a prescription as it is not a prescription drug. I suppose anyone with a medical background, nurses or doctors may take courses and learn to inject. Getting just fat graft in the lids would cost 500,000-1 million won or $450-$900. But it needs to be done by a top experienced plastic surgeon as the complications are infection, non take of fat graft, blindness and stroke!


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## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Hi @tigertrixie, I am a doctor so dermal fillers are easy. Oddly dermal fillers may be purchased without a prescription as it is not a prescription drug. I suppose anyone with a medical background, nurses or doctors may take courses and learn to inject. Getting just fat graft in the lids would cost 500,000-1 million won or $450-$900. But it needs to be done by a top experienced plastic surgeon as the complications are infection, non take of fat graft, blindness and stroke!



That makes sense since you are a doc!

This has nothing to do with the face, but I had a double mastectomy due to cancer.  Part of the recon is FG.  I have had three rounds, and none of it took.  This was over a three year period.  I would be worried that my body absorbs the fat very quickly.

Have you had any experience with fillers in the upper and lower lids?


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## catelet

Gats said:


> I can't say enough how much I appreciate MissOrange's sharing so much with us. One day I hope I get to be as secure with myself as you are to be able to share so much to benefit others.



I couldn't agree more!! MissOrange answers all of our questions openly and honestly, and truly tries to help others here on this forum.  

MissOrange thanks for sharing the pics of your nose and what you've been through with it. I do think your nose now looks great though as well! I agree where you said it looks young and that's a good thing in my opinion!!!  Especially as we age.

Sorry to hear about what you went through re: your father's death. Hugs.


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## dannythedragon

@MissOrange 
@catelet 
I agree with Catelet that MissOrange tries to help others even though she has been through a lot which makes me admire her even more.


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## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> That makes sense since you are a doc!
> 
> This has nothing to do with the face, but I had a double mastectomy due to cancer.  Part of the recon is FG.  I have had three rounds, and none of it took.  This was over a three year period.  I would be worried that my body absorbs the fat very quickly.
> 
> Have you had any experience with fillers in the upper and lower lids?


Oh my goodness @tigertrixie you are a cancer survivor! Congratulations on beating cancer! Cut out processed sugar from your diet. I have heard that if you get cancer, to cut out the food to feed cancer cells, ie sugar in cakes, biscuits, etc. so they often say chicken soup is good, etc. 

Fat graft to larger areas has limited take as the fat has to be injected in miniscule amounts to allow blood supply to grow. It takes a highly skilled surgeon and prp fat graft. My eyelid fat graft is at 80-90% take after 4 rounds in korea and just one more left to fingers crossed keep it at 100%. If this works, then you too could consider mvp clinic in korea as they use prp fat graft and do not try to charge 5 million like DA! MVP rates are 1.5-2 million ($1400-$1900) for full face fat graft so probably similar to fg to the breast area. I am really impressed how at 8 months the eyelid fat graft is holding up and it may be the cumulative effect of 4 rounds.


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## MissOrange

dannythedragon said:


> @MissOrange
> @catelet
> I agree with Catelet that MissOrange tries to help others even though she has been through a lot which makes me admire her even more.


Aww thank you @catelet and @dannythedragon. I love watching makeover tv shows whether it is the tv show botched or the atlanta plastic show or even house makeovers. I love to see photos of before and afters but I know how many would be embarrassed to share their before and afters on a public site. Still, I have seen some people's b&a they have shared with me on kakao and it is so nice to see a beautiful transformation. Based on their outcomes and my own I can share who I think might be good in korea and in the uk as I do not want to read heartbreaking botched accounts from patients who pick the wrong clinic or surgeon. Plastic surgery has the power to create beauty but it can also cause harm so one must always do a lot of research and talk to real patients of clinics and surgeons before deciding on what may end up as a permanent change to your face.


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## MissOrange

Turn a negative into a positive if surgery does not end up the way you expected instead of repeated revisions. I have found girls saying they wish they could have their original nose back or that the nose they ended up with was not what they expected. Some end up with long noses when they wanted upturned and some end up with upturned and short like me when I fancied big and long like Jun Ji Hyun. Well today instead of comparing my nose to long noses and thinking my nose was even shorter and more upturned, I compared my nose to the Barbie rhinoplasty and was surprised to see that this type of nose exists and I have it! So it is not abnormal but just a different style of a normal nose. This means I should style my hair like a barbie doll, big with lots of volume, wear blue contacts, long lashes and smile and flash my white porcelain veneers like Barbie! Okay a bit weird for a 51 yo to have a barbie nose but that is what I have so I shall just accept I have a normal short, small upturned Barbie nose and continue to look super young.


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## MissOrange

I made a revelation today. I couldn't understand why some days I am okay with my nose and some I have a nose that looks piggy. It then occurred to me that the glasses I wear is actually cutting off part of the nose and making it look shorter and that the shadow from the big glasses makes my nose look more piggy. So I tried an experiment, take selfies at the same angle with and without glasses. What do you think? It does kinda look longer without glasses. This means I do not need further rhino revision as rhino revision is the most difficult plastic surgery procedure to get right and to match the patient's expectations. Next month I go for a eyelid prp fat graft top up at MVP and think that should bring up retention from 80% to 100%.


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## caro89

Hello MissOrange! 
Thanks alot for all your suggestions and reviews. I come here mostly to read about your thoughts. Its been now 8 days that I had face fat grafting and double chin lipo with acculift. I’ve control my facial expressions since then. I wonder how long should I wait until I can smile, laugh, talk normally in order to not affect my face fat grafting and chin lipo? 
Thank you very much for your help  
Feel free if you have any suggestions.


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## catelet

MissOrange said:


> I made a revelation today. I couldn't understand why some days I am okay with my nose and some I have a nose that looks piggy. It then occurred to me that the glasses I wear is actually cutting off part of the nose and making it look shorter and that the shadow from the big glasses makes my nose look more piggy. So I tried an experiment, take selfies at the same angle with and without glasses. What do you think? It does kinda look longer without glasses. This means I do not need further rhino revision as rhino revision is the most difficult plastic surgery procedure to get right and to match the patient's expectations. Next month I go for a eyelid prp fat graft top up at MVP and think that should bring up retention from 80% to 100%.



Interesting about the Barbie nose. Her nose really is small--I never realized how much so until examining the photos you posted! I prefer smaller noses, so I think your nose looks grrrreeat -- it's also straight (as in no visible bumps, and it's not crooked!). I really like it!  It's a keeper in my book.


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## MissOrange

caro89 said:


> Hello MissOrange!
> Thanks alot for all your suggestions and reviews. I come here mostly to read about your thoughts. Its been now 8 days that I had face fat grafting and double chin lipo with acculift. I’ve control my facial expressions since then. I wonder how long should I wait until I can smile, laugh, talk normally in order to not affect my face fat grafting and chin lipo?
> Thank you very much for your help
> Feel free if you have any suggestions.


Hi @caro89 thank you for reading my thoughts. At my old age, sometimes I end up talking to myself! lol. I forget my thoughts may be read by the world here. As for controlling your facial expressions, I never thought about doing that after fat grafting. What I did do and that is probably why the forehead and temple fat graft x 1 lasted is have botox put in the forehead before fat grafting to make it last longer. Fat grafting takes in areas that do not move as much, like a frozen botoxed forehead or malar cheeks. Around the mouth and nasolabial areas the fat goes away fast as in weeks to 2-3 months as you cannot not eat or smile. Are you wearing a head bandage? I would after chin lipo to prevent sagging. Would love to see your b&a transformation via PM! I have noticed heat or hot climates make the fat reabsorb faster, same for dermal fillers. The acculift with chin lipo will look amazing! I haven't tried lifting yet. You must let us know where you had it done, price and if it lasted. Congratulations on trying baby face fat grafting!


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Interesting about the Barbie nose. Her nose really is small--I never realized how much so until examining the photos you posted! I prefer smaller noses, so I think your nose looks grrrreeat -- it's also straight (as in no visible bumps, and it's not crooked!). I really like it!  It's a keeper in my book.


Hi @catelet, thank you. Yes I have been told off by my husband, my GP friends, my kk friends that I should definitely not do another rhino but then I heard about misooda which if you google offers korean clinic promotions and lo and behold gng are advertising a barbie nose with silicone bridge and ear or septal cartilage tip for only $4k! I gulped as I have paid Mr Ion £8910 or closer to $14k for my nose! No wonder people fly to korea for plastic surgery. For $14k I could have had full face contouring and rhino! If I spent $6k on no plant rhino promo to improve my nose, I would have spent $20k on my nose which looked fine to begin with! This alone is making me hesitate to touch my nose until it contracts more or as you say gets crooked, has visible bumps, etc. It is so easy to use a morph app to create the perfect nose but in reality, a surgeon may not be able to deliver or in my case, deliver but it only lasts 2.5 weeks and then contracts and shrinks upwards.  Yes I am still obsessed with my big Ion nose of 2.5 weeks on the left vs the current nose on the right after an abscess and reop with Ion. Another reason to only get rhino if deformed, as what you may end up with may not be any better than before rhino and you may end up in a cycle of revision rhinos. I am fighting against the impulse to get it less short in Korea.

A tip for those considering rhino, ask your surgeon if he uses permanent sutures under the skin inside your nose or dissolvable. In the US they predominantly use dissolvable under the skin but Ion prefers permanent. Permanent sutures may serve as a nidus for infection/abscesses which is why most surgeons just use permanent outside the skin to close and then remove a week later. I had a reop in May 2016 to exchange the permanent sutures inside my nose with dissolvable ones as I could not live with the anxiety of not knowing when the next abscess would occur and contract my rib graft more and continue to take doxycycline for weeks on end to keep an abscess from returning while the permanent sutures remained inside my nose.

It is also important to get a good reasonable price at the start as sometimes the result is not ideal and you then may need to consider a revision with someone else so more cost. If you paid a lot for the first op you may not be able to afford a revision.


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## MissOrange

Today a friend recommended I see the k drama the birth of beauty. Han Ye Seul is gorgeous! I am obsessed with korean before and afters as the transformations are so amazing! I went back through my old ugly photos and found one of me aged 47 next to the PM. And he looked a lot better than I did! I think we are the same age! Imagine if I looked like Han Ye Seul, he wouldn't have his back to me! lol. I put together a collage of this month's photos to create a b&a and wow you can see how a bullhorn lip lift reduced my long philtrum and everted my upper lip where before I had a thin sliver of an upper lip. That has got to be one of the best operations ever invented and well worth the £2450 I paid Miss Mills for the 1 hour procedure under local. Hair transplant helped lower the high forehead. The eyes are rejuvenated by Dr Seo of MVP and I think I shall maintain my eyelid fat graft there until I am 100! lol. Still not sure what to do about the slight sagging in the lower face that is not bad enough for a smas.


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## MissOrange

Ok someone suggested I look at vip clinic for rib rhino. Wow! The before photos under the revision rhino section are really deformed and then got fixed! Imo that means revision rhino should only be reserved if your nose looks like any of the before photos they have here http://www.vippskorea.com/face/nose-surgery/revision-rhinoplasty.html instead of a pursuit of perfection or trying to get back your old nose. The site also details everything that may go wrong with silicone implants like tip flushing, skin thinning, etc. Fascinating. Another reason to leave well enough alone or quit while one is ahead.


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## MissOrange

I am in the middle of watching birth of beauty and now want to look like Han Ye Seul. Here are my best silly selfies trying to act like her.


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## onlydbest

Haha. I am the guilty party here who suggested Birth.  And yeah, you are beginning to look like Ye-seul , maybe keep the eye makeup to a minimum to look Korean. 
How did you get such narrow jaws ? I would have to get all my hair (or what's left of it) over to my face just to accomplish this look.


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## MissOrange

onlydbest said:


> Haha. I am the guilty party here who suggested Birth.  And yeah, you are beginning to look like Ye-seul , maybe keep the eye makeup to a minimum to look Korean.
> How did you get such narrow jaws ? I would have to get all my hair (or what's left of it) over to my face just to accomplish this look.


Nah no chance of adjumma me looking like the most beautiful asian actress in the world! lol. In my ps dreams I guess. I put my hair over my wide 15 cms cheeks to try to get a small face. The hair covers at least an inch on both sides. Remember the scene where the girls say she has the face the size of a CD and then I took out a tape measure and cds are 12 cms in diameter!!! Can this be true? Can girls have a face this tiny? Seriously like I don't think that is humanly possible? lol. Well I made it through the 21 episode marathon and now need a break as it is hard to watch 21 hours of a beautiful model singer actress who in the drama looked that good from ps...jealous! lol. I do wonder when the internet mentions the height and weight of these actresses. Does she really have a bmi of 16? I am at a bmi of 18.3 with a 24 inch waist. Is a bmi of 16 a 22 inch waist? I don't think I can achieve that. I guess I just have to accept my limitations with plastic surgery.

Apologies for posting so many selfies! Wait until you are a 50s adjumma and korea turns you back to 20s. You will be addicted to daily selfies afraid that one day you will wake up and look in the mirror and see a 50s face again! It is like a fairy tale and you wonder when the spell will be broken. I plan to look 18 after next month's eyelid top up. The acid test is when strangers in their 20s think you are their age and when you mention you have kids their age, their face shows them trying to do the maths quick enough and then they say you must have been really young when you had your children! lol. 29-23 is 6 years old! lol.


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## MissOrange

I take that back. Korea can make you look like Han Ye Seul! I found these on the net. SK plastic surgery created her beauty!


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## MissOrange

Having analysed Han Ye Seul's b+a photos, it looks like she may have had des, 2 rhinoplasties (as her first nose had a bulbous tip and then in the third photo her nose looks deviated at the tip and slightly shorter and now looks long and straight), fat grafting (as her temples were hollow in the first earliest photo) and v line surgery as her lower face is narrower and her chin bigger than in her earliest photo. She may also have had teeth veneers as her once crooked teeth are now perfect and all the same size. So there is hope for anyone to go to korea and transform! If only we knew who her plastic surgeons were it would make transforming a lot easier and safer!

Here is a b+a side by side of my chin/mandible. I always hated how long my mandible bone was and how it protruded too much in the side profile. It has haunted me ever since I was a child and any childhood photos made my head look too big for my body because of the long jawbone. I give full credit to Mr Ion for sonopet reduction of the chin/mandible inside the mouth with immediate results, no swelling and no pain for £3000. He described my chin as a strong prominent chin that he could soften and make more rounded and feminine. He achieved this 100%.


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## SweetPotato1996

Hello MissOrange! I really love your philtrum reduction results and I am planning on getting the procedure done too. Do you know if it is possible to get it done together with rhinoplasty? Or if not, should it usually be done before or after rhinoplasty? And how long does one have to leave in between the procedures? I want to get my rhinoplasty and fc at GNG, but I do not know if they offer philtrum reduction, so I may need to get the latter done somewhere else.


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## MissOrange

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Hello MissOrange! I really love your philtrum reduction results and I am planning on getting the procedure done too. Do you know if it is possible to get it done together with rhinoplasty? Or if not, should it usually be done before or after rhinoplasty? And how long does one have to leave in between the procedures? I want to get my rhinoplasty and fc at GNG, but I do not know if they offer philtrum reduction, so I may need to get the latter done somewhere else.


Hi @SweetPotato1996, that's a difficult question. FC and rhino may dramatically change your face so maybe wait until your face settles and then decide whether you want to get your philtrum done too.


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## SweetPotato1996

MissOrange said:


> Hi @SweetPotato1996, that's a difficult question. FC and rhino may dramatically change your face so maybe wait until your face settles and then decide whether you want to get your philtrum done too.



Thank you for replying! The thing is, I think I definitely need to get it reduced to look more feminine and youthful. I am only 21 but I find my long philtrum (which is definitely over 15mm) makes me look older and masculine. Also I literally have zero upper tooth show, my upper lip just hangs over my teeth.


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## MissOrange

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Thank you for replying! The thing is, I think I definitely need to get it reduced to look more feminine and youthful. I am only 21 but I find my long philtrum (which is definitely over 15mm) makes me look older and masculine. Also I literally have zero upper tooth show, my upper lip just hangs over my teeth.


HI @SweetPotato1996 yes a long philtrum may make you look older and masculine. Draw lipstick above your upper lip and fill in with red lipstick and then take a picture. It gives you an idea of what philtrum reduction may look like and also how many mms you want the philtrum reduced. The ideal length for a girl is 11-13 mms. In that case it sounds like get the philtrum done first as it is the easiest operation, done under local anaesthesia and takes 30-60 mins but make sure they do not cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The results are immediate. My philtrum is now 12 mms at 1 year postop. It was 11 mms after the operation. At this rate it may mean another philtrum reduction when I am 60!


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## MissOrange

Today's topic is on facial contouring.

I have been doing extensive research on facial contouring as even though my side profile selfies are perfect, my frontal view is not and I think it may be because my face is too wide at the cheeks at 15 cms or maybe my nose is too short on frontal view. So like many of you wondering about facial bone contouring I read all 29 pages of tlps reviews on this site and all 29 pages of gng reviews on this site. Like one of the tlps reviewers mentioned, the kk consultant for tlps also asked me for my budget and offered to book me for surgery on the same day as my consultation next month. I read the criticisms that sham_sham received from site users for proceeding with tlps without consulting elsewhere but I can empathise with her situation as the kk consultant comes across very strong! Even I felt pressured and stressed. Their instagram photos are amazing for facial contouring and their website real patient stories are really enticing. But I felt that due diligence means meeting with the maxfax surgeon, having him examine your face ie touch it and feel the bone under the skin, getting an x ray or ct scan and sitting down and having a lengthy conversation to discuss all the benefits and risks to make a fully informed decision. I have to bear in mind that JW, BK and my uk maxfax surgeon who did my philtrum reduction said no I was not a candidate for zygoma reduction.

So I took a step back and contacted gng and regen. I follow kittyberry on instagram to see updated current selfies and also checked with calliecat over her recent facial contouring with GNG and they are both very happy. I checked the gng website and confirmed that Dr Choi is a maxfax surgeon with 13 years experience as the hospital is an ENT one and he graduated the top of his class which makes him an incredible genius. But then I got worried as there were 4 surgeons at the clinic on their website who looked junior to him and were not Dr Hong or Dr Seong and not anaesthetists but other plastic and rhino docs. How can one be sure there will not be a swap, ie if you pay too little will you get one of the junior surgeons? I have an appointment with GNG and will see how it goes. The facial contouring looks more natural and conservative than tlps which seem more dramatic, aka closer to Han Ye Seul but the hard sell and budget question by tlps felt like a red flag which is a shame as I love their instagram and real patient stories. I would pick Dr Choi over Dr Kim at tlps based on my research. Will try to secure an appointment at tlps anyway as it may just be the consultant who is abrupt and aggressive on kk.

Then there is Regen where the famous blogger Bongquiqui had her zygoma reduction and v line but then she also got a facelift at banobagi afterwards. I found xuet1ng on real self and saw her before and after photos as she had famous Dr Oh from Let Me In at Regen do her zygoma. But her instagram only has photos with a mask on unlike kittyberry who has lots of selfies almost a year out. I found videos on Dr Oh on youtube and he speaks fluent English. So I have made an appointment with him also. Maybe I need a smas and not facial contouring? But then why did BQQ go elsewhere for a facelift! Another kk user suggested asps hospital for facelifts. Okay that means starting all over again and doing research!

Then someone in a kk group suggested EU dental for facial contouring. I had not heard of this clinic so looked at their b&a photos on their website and instagram. The clinic invited me into a group kk chat with the consultant and the surgeon. They asked me for x rays but I had no x rays done in the UK for my chin reduction with Ion so I could not share any x rays. Asking about x rays is a good question as it is the bone that is to be contoured and a surgeon needs to see imaging and not just rely on a selfie on kk.

And that is where my research has reached in my quest to look like Han Ye Seul. It is vital you do not jump into surgery, pay a deposit, etc. until you visit the hospital or clinic, check their cleanliness, check their credentials, board certification, check with former patients, and get 10 opinions. My friends are saying no, no, no. I guess 10 no's will mean I am definitely not a candidate for facial contouring. So far gng, regen and tlps have offered appointments and gng and regen have confirmed.


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## SweetPotato1996

MissOrange said:


> HI @SweetPotato1996 yes a long philtrum may make you look older and masculine. Draw lipstick above your upper lip and fill in with red lipstick and then take a picture. It gives you an idea of what philtrum reduction may look like and also how many mms you want the philtrum reduced. The ideal length for a girl is 11-13 mms. In that case it sounds like get the philtrum done first as it is the easiest operation, done under local anaesthesia and takes 30-60 mins but make sure they do not cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The results are immediate. My philtrum is now 12 mms at 1 year postop. It was 11 mms after the operation. At this rate it may mean another philtrum reduction when I am 60!



Thank you for your advice MissOrange! But if I got the bullhorn lip lift first, and then rhinoplasty, do you think the rhinoplasty may affect or perhaps mess up the results of the lip lift? And conversely, could getting a lip lift after rhinoplasty affect the latter? Either way I worry, haha. 

It would be a dream for my philtrum to only measure 11mm! It's too bad that the procedure has to be touched up with time.


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## MissOrange

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Thank you for your advice MissOrange! But if I got the bullhorn lip lift first, and then rhinoplasty, do you think the rhinoplasty may affect or perhaps mess up the results of the lip lift? And conversely, could getting a lip lift after rhinoplasty affect the latter? Either way I worry, haha.
> 
> It would be a dream for my philtrum to only measure 11mm! It's too bad that the procedure has to be touched up with time.


Hi @SweetPotato1996 you sound like me...a worrymonger! lol. Ask yourself what is most important for you to fix first and if it is your philtrum then do that first. If it is your nose then do that first. The incision for the bullhorn is below the nose so I don't think rhino will affect the results as it will be incised above the bullhorn line. I am worrying so much about facial bone contouring after scaring myself by watching some videos of surgery through the inside of the mouth.


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## SweetPotato1996

MissOrange said:


> Hi @SweetPotato1996 you sound like me...a worrymonger! lol. Ask yourself what is most important for you to fix first and if it is your philtrum then do that first. If it is your nose then do that first. The incision for the bullhorn is below the nose so I don't think rhino will affect the results as it will be incised above the bullhorn line. I am worrying so much about facial bone contouring after scaring myself by watching some videos of surgery through the inside of the mouth.



Thanks again MissOrange! That's a relief, haha. Ideally, I would love to get everything I want - facial contouring, rhinoplasty, philtrum reduction, and eyelid revision - done at the same time, so that I can feel beautiful right away and so that I only need to go through the recovery once. Doing it in stages would make me feel like I am still missing something. But I don't know if it is possible to do that. Especially since there is no clinic that is good for all those things.


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## MissOrange

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Thanks again MissOrange! That's a relief, haha. Ideally, I would love to get everything I want - facial contouring, rhinoplasty, philtrum reduction, and eyelid revision - done at the same time, so that I can feel beautiful right away and so that I only need to go through the recovery once. Doing it in stages would make me feel like I am still missing something. But I don't know if it is possible to do that. Especially since there is no clinic that is good for all those things.


Hi @SweetPotato1996 whatever you do, do not do everything at once in one clinic. You are right, no clinic is best for everything. From my research, the clinics to look at for facial contouring are gng, tlps, regen, eu dental, view and romian. The best for natural small crease eyes is Dr Seo at MVP and for adjummas combine with eyelid fat graft. For big creases look at smps. For primary silicone rhino look at Dr Seo at MVP or Dr Hong at GNG. For revision rhino look at Dr Seong at GNG, Dr Zhou who did krod2017 in China, JJ hong, etc. For fat grafting look at mvp and fresh.


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## SweetPotato1996

MissOrange said:


> Hi @SweetPotato1996 whatever you do, do not do everything at once in one clinic. You are right, no clinic is best for everything. From my research, the clinics to look at for facial contouring are gng, tlps, regen, eu dental, view and romian. The best for natural small crease eyes is Dr Seo at MVP and for adjummas combine with eyelid fat graft. For big creases look at smps. For primary silicone rhino look at Dr Seo at MVP or Dr Hong at GNG. For revision rhino look at Dr Seong at GNG, Dr Zhou who did krod2017 in China, JJ hong, etc. For fat grafting look at mvp and fresh.



Thanks for the suggestions! GNG is probably my top choice for rhinoplasty and facial contouring (my second choice would be View), as they are very good at both and I'd like to combine procedures when possible to get the best discount. Also GNG is the only clinic I've come across that also fixes functional issues. But I was concerned as their surgeons are not plastic surgery certified. For eyes and philtrum reduction, it's been hard to find a clinic. I want really big dolly eyes but with a small crease - I felt MVP's eyes looked too conservative. What do you think of Opera? Their prices are so cheap and they are apparently very popular with locals.


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## miame44

MissOrange said:


> Here I am trying to look like a Korean actress. No false eyelashes. Normal brown eyes. Just a little eyeliner. Lol. To think I look better and younger now in my 50s than I did in my early 30s! Definitely get eyelid fat grafting and des with ptosis correction with Dr Seo at MVP if you are 40s-60s! I still can't believe the rejuvenation transformation from my eyelid surgery at MVP in May 2016!


You looked really good!


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## miame44

MissOrange said:


> @crystalhearts is that 18,000,000 won (close to $18,000 USD) or 1,800,000 won (close to $1,800 USD)? 18,000 won is like $18 USD? Lol. @itsamemario had FUE hair transplant at jpplastic.co.kr for 2.5 million won (close to $2,300 or £2000 which is less than half what I paid in the UK).


That is such a good price for FUE. I paid more than you and area is half of yours. I will check this place out. Thanks for the information. I want to do more FUE to make my forehead look smaller. I paid US $5000 and is not even close to the area you did. Is about half of the area. Was also done in South Korea. 4 months ago. Not very happy with it.


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## MissOrange

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! GNG is probably my top choice for rhinoplasty and facial contouring (my second choice would be View), as they are very good at both and I'd like to combine procedures when possible to get the best discount. Also GNG is the only clinic I've come across that also fixes functional issues. But I was concerned as their surgeons are not plastic surgery certified. For eyes and philtrum reduction, it's been hard to find a clinic. I want really big dolly eyes but with a small crease - I felt MVP's eyes looked too conservative. What do you think of Opera? Their prices are so cheap and they are apparently very popular with locals.


Hi @SweetPotato1996 yes someone else showed me the rock bottom prices for des Opera are offering but I haven't seen any results from past patients yet to comment. I like to see b&a's of past patients to give a comment. With regard to facial fat grafting, remember it requires commitment as you may need three fills for retention. Watch a youtube video of how they do facial fat grafting. It made me realise that they stretch and loosen the skin a lot to get the cannula in and move it back and forth in different directions to place the fat.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on how to lose weight without starving or excessive exercise or body liposuction. Today I managed to reach my goal of 95 lbs or 95.8 lbs precisely or bmi of 18.1. I wanted to find a way to get to 95 without the gym or skipping meals or starving. 

One Nespresso coffee a day really boosts your metabolism and heart rate to overdrive! It is wellknown that caffeine kick starts weight loss. I got a nespresso machine for £44 in the xmas sales. Snacking on melon cups, a small banana and 1-2 tangerines instead of crisps and chocolate bars works. For lunch it is plain japanese thin noodles with probiotic kimchi. The probiotic burns off the calories. I drink water all day long and no diet coke as I do not want the health risks of aspartame. And I eat one HD vanilla cup a day at 2 pm as a treat. I eat salmon for dinner every night ie salmon spaghetti or salmon with rice and seaweed which is both filling and super low in calories. I don't have to take omega 3 fish oil supplements but I do take vitamin D as we get little sun in the winter in the UK. 

As for exercise, it is either the stairs in my home as I do housework or window shopping for 2 hours. There are plenty of indoor malls in the US but do NOT eat junk food in the food court. Try to find a sushi stand.

And download a weight tracking app to keep an eye on your weight as it is too easy to go off track.

Take a tape measure and measure your biceps, chest, waist, hips and thighs if you do not believe the scales. My biceps are 9.75/10.5 inches, chest 34, waist a stubborn 24.5, hips 33 and thighs 17.75/18.5. This means I have lost the most weight from my upper arms and thighs. I have also noticed my upper back fat has gone but I still have love handles. Not bad for almost 52 and mother of 3. I do not use the excuse of multiple pregnancies as a reason not to lose weight.


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## MissOrange

Double dose of me today! lol. After 3 full face fat grafts (last in April 2017), it seems the lower part of my face showed sagging as the fat graft does not seem to last in this area, and I did not like the uneven contour either. So be prepared for this when the fat graft disappears if you go down the fat graft route. I then thought well I still have my marena comfortwear elasticated velcro compression bandage I got after my chin reduction, so what if I kept hydrated and wore this every day while watching tv. I watch a lot of k drama tv in my retirement! lol. And wow, after just a few days of wearing it I can see a difference! I took a photo just now which looks much better than the saggy face last month from disappearing fat graft. I feel like the head compression bandage is squeezing the fat into the centre of my face and smoothing out my uneven contour. If you have also had contour surgery and been left with saggy skin but cannot afford a facelift try this home remedy too. You also need to try to lose a few pounds to help tighten the skin. What do you think? I just refuse to keep filling my face with fat. Three times is enough to know it does not last in the lower face.


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## MissOrange

I like to go back and look at what I used to look like to see how much has changed over the past 2 years. I think for those who cannot afford $10-15k facial bone contouring of the zygoma and long jaw or a £12k smas facelift, facial fat grafting with dermal fillers is like a liquid budget facelift. Here are freshly bruised eyes May 2016 before facial fat grafting and you can see how bony my face was, next to one last month where I use a weekly £20 blowdry to style my hair forward to create an illusion of a face that has had facial contouring when it hasn't. I can see that some of the full face fat graft has been retained after all even in my lower face. As you can see the eyelid creases are holding at almost 2 years and not dropping and I think this is because I asked for a lot of lid skin excision and ptosis correction too. From ugly and old at 50 to almost 52 years young and beautiful on a budget.


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## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Double dose of me today! lol. After 3 full face fat grafts (last in April 2017), it seems the lower part of my face showed sagging as the fat graft does not seem to last in this area, and I did not like the uneven contour either. So be prepared for this when the fat graft disappears if you go down the fat graft route. I then thought well I still have my marena comfortwear elasticated velcro compression bandage I got after my chin reduction, so what if I kept hydrated and wore this every day while watching tv. I watch a lot of k drama tv in my retirement! lol. And wow, after just a few days of wearing it I can see a difference! I took a photo just now which looks much better than the saggy face last month from disappearing fat graft. I feel like the head compression bandage is squeezing the fat into the centre of my face and smoothing out my uneven contour. If you have also had contour surgery and been left with saggy skin but cannot afford a facelift try this home remedy too. You also need to try to lose a few pounds to help tighten the skin. What do you think? I just refuse to keep filling my face with fat. Three times is enough to know it does not last in the lower face.



That's a great idea! Is the effect only temporary or does it last all day?


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## SweetPotato1996

MissOrange said:


> Hi @SweetPotato1996 yes someone else showed me the rock bottom prices for des Opera are offering but I haven't seen any results from past patients yet to comment. I like to see b&a's of past patients to give a comment. With regard to facial fat grafting, remember it requires commitment as you may need three fills for retention. Watch a youtube video of how they do facial fat grafting. It made me realise that they stretch and loosen the skin a lot to get the cannula in and move it back and forth in different directions to place the fat.



From the photos shown on their instagram, Opera's results for eye surgery look pretty good! I would not trust them with anything else though. I don't think I'm going to get fat grafting just yet, maybe when I'm older. For now, just getting jaw and cheekbone reduction, 5-6 rhinoplasty procedures, 3-4 eyelid procedures, and a lip lift will deplete my wallet, haha.


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## miame44

MissOrange said:


> I like to go back and look at what I used to look like to see how much has changed over the past 2 years. I think for those who cannot afford $10-15k facial bone contouring of the zygoma and long jaw or a £12k smas facelift, facial fat grafting with dermal fillers is like a liquid budget facelift. Here are freshly bruised eyes May 2016 before facial fat grafting and you can see how bony my face was, next to one last month where I use a weekly £20 blowdry to style my hair forward to create an illusion of a face that has had facial contouring when it hasn't. I can see that some of the full face fat graft has been retained after all even in my lower face. As you can see the eyelid creases are holding at almost 2 years and not dropping and I think this is because I asked for a lot of lid skin excision and ptosis correction too. From ugly and old at 50 to almost 52 years young and beautiful on a budget.


You really looked amazing. Now you look in your 20s.


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> That's a great idea! Is the effect only temporary or does it last all day?


Hi @Gats, it lasts all day. I wore the head compression bandage for 2 hours last night and here are today's photos. I am also trying to figure out the best weight for the ideal amount of fat on my face and the least amount of sagging. I like this weight at 96.4 lbs or a bmi of 18.2.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on less is more, a saying I read on another site by a very wise lady who sadly ended up looking 20 years older after the face sagged +++ after zygoma and jaw reduction. I have also found the negative review of a gng zygoma reduction patient and seen the x rays and photos but cannot read Chinese. I am now convinced that we must keep repeating to ourselves less is more, less is more. I can't bear to think of the several $1000s these ladies spent on painful bone surgery to end up unhappy and requiring further expensive surgery like facelifts, or revision. I think the bottom line is if you do go down the bone contouring route as your facial bones are very distorted, either get it with full face fat grafting as bongquiqui did at regen or even add a smas facelift too as bongquiqui later did at banobagi. But she could afford all these most expensive plastic surgery procedures and most of us cannot. The costs may start spiralling! Remember that smas facelifts are both expensive and may not be permanent.

I am now 90% against getting zygoma or angle of the jaw reduction on the basis that the cheapest method to contour one's face is with hair and boots smashbox contouring kit and the risk of +++ sagging at my adjumma age is pretty high! Imagine paying several $1000s and after the swelling goes down, seeing a face that has literally dropped southwards! That would break my heart after achieving looking decades younger! So far I have been lucky with a wee bit of sagging from fat graft cannula placement and skin stretching.

I think I shall now turn my attention to noninvasive and invasive facelifts and do some research. I have relied on dermal fillers in my 40s to avoid a facelift, and then fat grafting in my 50s to replace the fat loss with aging. A positive is that I grew up as an indoors child, rarely going out to play so have avoided the sun as much as I could throughout my years and I always applied spf makeup to my face in my 20s and 30s and never went out without a layer of protective makeup, which may be why my face is less saggy than a normal 50+ year old, as the sun is the most aging factor there is! I have met some girls who go out bare faced! Remember parasols under the hot sun, spf and limit outdoors activities. You cannot start paying for facelifts from your 30s as it will cost a fortune by the time you reach your 50s or 60s.

Also remember that after menopause, your bone may start reabsorbing as you no longer have protective levels of oestrogen so you do need as much facial bone mass as you can to make it to your 80s and still look young.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on aging. I found these photos of a lady aging from 32, 42 to 60. We naturally lose fat from our face between our 30s and 40s. This is where you suddenly wake up and look old! Your temples have hollowed, your cheeks are starting to sag and the jowls are starting to appear. The cheekbones look more pronounced not because they are too big and need reduction but because the fat has disappeared so they stand out more. This is when full face fat grafting including to the upper lids which start becoming sunken as it loses fat too or when dermal fillers are essential to replace volume. The philtrum may also need shortening with bullhorn liplift as it elongates over the decades which then may make the nose look shorter. Hair transplant is next to lower the receding hairline. And finally smas facelift will eventually be required to lift the skin back to its youthful position. US model Christie Brinkley is an example of a 63 year old lady who can look 20s so it can be done!


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## MissOrange

I have found the most recent photo of 63 yo Christie Brinkley to analyse. It looks like she could benefit from upper lid fat grafting as the eyes become sunken when it loses fat in the lids over time. As you age try not to have flat straight hair as it may make your face look harsher. Add curls and volume. If you are on a ps budget then just get full face fat grafting with top up and make sure to include the upper lids. Fat grafting to the lids must be done by an experienced specialist which is why I am so glad Dr Seo is younger than I am as I am always going to ensure I have fat in my upper lids in my 60s onwards!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on why it is important to replenish volume and fat to the face when we age. I asked myself why do we end up with loss of fat in the temples, a ridged brow, deep nasolabial folds and loss of fat in the lower face as we age? Then I twigged as you get older your face becomes more like a skull! Warning as this is a graphic photo of a skull. This explains why we have deep nasolabial folds as there is no support in the paranasal area. No wonder nasolabial dermal fillers or a paranasal silicone implant improves looks as we age and why fat graft smooths the forehead which becomes ridged and plumps up temples as we age. The invention of dermal fillers and fat graft are essential to maintaining youth! I have nightmares of looking 90! Now we can make sure we never look skeletal in the face!


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## onlydbest

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on why it is important to replenish volume and fat to the face when we age. I asked myself why do we end up with loss of fat in the temples, a ridged brow, deep nasolabial folds and loss of fat in the lower face as we age? Then I twigged as you get older your face becomes more like a skull! Warning as this is a graphic photo of a skull. This explains why we have deep nasolabial folds as there is no support in the paranasal area. No wonder nasolabial dermal fillers or a paranasal silicone implant improves looks as we age and why fat graft smooths the forehead which becomes ridged and plumps up temples as we age. The invention of dermal fillers and fat graft are essential to maintaining youth! I have nightmares of looking 90! Now we can make sure we never look skeletal in the face!



I looked for that lady on realself since she has a classic face. She said she had a facelift at 50. And now at 60, she had fat graft to her face.


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## Merose

onlydbest said:


> I looked for that lady on realself since she has a classic face. She said she had a facelift at 50. And now at 60, she had fat graft to her face.



She does not look better, do you think? She just looks different and still like a lady in her late 60s.


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## MissOrange

Merose said:


> She does not look better, do you think? She just looks different and still like a lady in her late 60s.


I agree @Merose which is why in my opinion Korea is the best place for fat graft and not USA. I can recommend mvp and fresh clinics in korea for fat grafting based on my experience at mvp and friends who have spoken highly of fresh. I am so pleased to have found a good clinic for fat grafting as this will ensure I never look 60, 70, 80 or 90. The price for full face fat grafting is around 2 million won in korea. Avoid the foreigner trap clinics who may charge up to 5 million won!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on how old am I apps. To get an impartial opinion on how old you look, download one of the free apps. Here the app analysed photos of me a few years ago in my late 40s before Korea and a photo of me this month. This means I have achieved my goal of looking 20s! If you look older than your age on these apps, then time for you to get fat graft to your lids and face and consider a bullhorn lip lift.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on baby fat grafting. I call it baby as I think it is turning me back to a child! Forget expensive 11 million won or £12,000 smas facelifts which may need repeating every decade and does nothing to replace lost fat volume due to a drop in oestrogen levels as we age, and look into 3-4 rounds of fat grafting to the face. One round with free top up is approximately 2 million won or just under $2k and then you negotiate for one more top up after for 1 million. And make sure you drink at least 1 litre of water a day to plump up the fat cells. And do not take a selfie first thing in the morning as you wake up slightly dehydrated, with slight hollowing in the lids and saggy in the lower face. Wait until you have literally inflated your face like a balloon with a litre of water for that young refreshed baby face! The kitchen home cam took these somewhat blurry photos of me without makeup and I thought, it reminds me of something? Yes, what I looked like at age 10! Reminds me of those tv movies like Freaky Friday where parents swap places with their child! My hair is brown but the cam makes it look purple. Not sure why. I either looked really old at age 10 or really young at age 51!


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## Marvelmmm

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on baby fat grafting. I call it baby as I think it is turning me back to a child! Forget expensive 11 million won or £12,000 smas facelifts which may need repeating every decade and does nothing to replace lost fat volume due to a drop in oestrogen levels as we age, and look into 3-4 rounds of fat grafting to the face. One round with free top up is approximately 2 million won or just under $2k and then you negotiate for one more top up after for 1 million. And make sure you drink at least 1 litre of water a day to plump up the fat cells. And do not take a selfie first thing in the morning as you wake up slightly dehydrated, with slight hollowing in the lids and saggy in the lower face. Wait until you have literally inflated your face like a balloon with a litre of water for that young refreshed baby face! The kitchen home cam took these somewhat blurry photos of me without makeup and I thought, it reminds me of something? Yes, what I looked like at age 10! Reminds me of those tv movies like Freaky Friday where parents swap places with their child! My hair is brown but the cam makes it look purple. Not sure why. I either looked really old at age 10 or really young at age 51!


So weird that the camera turns your hair purple.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on using metabolism to lose weight. You have probably heard people say I have slow metabolism so cannot lose weight or I have high metabolism and can never put on weight.

As I was weaning off diet coke as I did not want to be exposed to aspartame, I was actually also weaning myself off caffeine. It has been months off diet coke so my tolerance to caffeine is pretty low.

Then I noticed that having one nespresso coffee a day sped up my metabolism as I seemed ultra sensitive to caffeine. It wasn't until I measured my resting heart rate, that I realised my heart rate was 104 and sometimes got up to 130! And the caffeine in nespresso kept my heart rate tachy for several hours. Sinus tachycardia so nothing to worry about as long as you are healthy, but this then explained why I am eating and still maintaining at 95-96 lbs or 95.2 lbs today or a bmi of 18.1. Yesterday I ate a buttery croissant, haagen daz mini cup, toast and salmon pate, tempura prawns, spaghetti and salmon. The day before was spaghetti vongole, indian biriyani, and a haagen daz mini cup. When people run on a treadmill they want to get their heart rate up to lose weight. One nespresso coffee a day seems to give me the benefits of a treadmill workout without leaving my bed! lol. Might be worth an experiment and see how sensitive you are to caffeine and how high your heart rate goes. My husband's resting heart rate is 56 so no chance of losing weight any time soon. He drinks cans of diet coke a day but he has built up a tolerance to caffeine.

Remember to drink a litre of water a day as it really helps with a young fresh complexion and fills your tummy. If you manage to lose weight, it is like getting free body liposuction (my thighs are now 17.5 and 18 inches in circumference but it is so cold there is no chance to wear shorts!) and it can transform your face for free too.


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## MissOrange

These 99p ebay glasses make any face look small! Best buy to give an illusion of a small face without cutting.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> I like to go back and look at what I used to look like to see how much has changed over the past 2 years. I think for those who cannot afford $10-15k facial bone contouring of the zygoma and long jaw or a £12k smas facelift, facial fat grafting with dermal fillers is like a liquid budget facelift. Here are freshly bruised eyes May 2016 before facial fat grafting and you can see how bony my face was, next to one last month where I use a weekly £20 blowdry to style my hair forward to create an illusion of a face that has had facial contouring when it hasn't. I can see that some of the full face fat graft has been retained after all even in my lower face. As you can see the eyelid creases are holding at almost 2 years and not dropping and I think this is because I asked for a lot of lid skin excision and ptosis correction too. From ugly and old at 50 to almost 52 years young and beautiful on a budget.


Hi MissO Please correct me if I am wrong. The after pic you had facial contouring and FG and did your eyes? So no facelifting? Pretty amazing results.  Where did you go>


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today a friend recommended I see the k drama the birth of beauty. Han Ye Seul is gorgeous! I am obsessed with korean before and afters as the transformations are so amazing! I went back through my old ugly photos and found one of me aged 47 next to the PM. And he looked a lot better than I did! I think we are the same age! Imagine if I looked like Han Ye Seul, he wouldn't have his back to me! lol. I put together a collage of this month's photos to create a b&a and wow you can see how a bullhorn lip lift reduced my long philtrum and everted my upper lip where before I had a thin sliver of an upper lip. That has got to be one of the best operations ever invented and well worth the £2450 I paid Miss Mills for the 1 hour procedure under local. Hair transplant helped lower the high forehead. The eyes are rejuvenated by Dr Seo of MVP and I think I shall maintain my eyelid fat graft there until I am 100! lol. Still not sure what to do about the slight sagging in the lower face that is not bad enough for a smas.


Miss O - Apart from the bullhorn liplift - did you do fg in the lips? or have you had fillers? I am Chinese and very superstitious. The Chinese believe that longer the line between your nose and lips it means a longer life. When i was younger never cared but as I am getting to the final chapter, pushing 68, I want heaps more time to enjoy my plastic fantastic results. At least if you do check out early, you will look great in the coffin! Getting back to the subject, I note that one of the clinics and only one in SK offer a mouth lift. This is better and also adds volume back and anti-aging. I am seriously considering lip implants so I have seen a long of great results. I will be full of plastic if I do that as I am also revising my nose implant (36 years old), replacing my boob implants (30 years old) and considering having butt implants done in Mexico this year. It is so ironic up until i retired (not through my choice as our dept shut down and no-one wants to hire 65 year olds) I worked in a stressful job and ate badly, was UK size 16. Now at 67-68 by cutting carbs I dropped 3 dress sizes in a year but all the fat has gone from my former big round face and my butt has disappear. You can't have BOTH!! When I was a size 16 at 66 I sent photos to The Line PS and they wrote back asked me if I had already had work done! No I haven't not even fillers or botox. Fat is youthful. Anyway the reason for my butt implant is because I don't have enough to lipo for a BBL anymore, not for the Kim Kardashian projection I want. Also I have to hurry up because I think most clinic would hesitate to operate on me because of my age!!! I don't like the SK noses, try as I might. So flying from Australia to Manila to see Dr Yappy (Icon Clinic) then on to Seoul either Banobagi or JK for my facelift and revision eye job with micro fat grafting for the hollowness in my eye area.  Come home to recuperate for about 4 weeks then off to Mexico or the Dominican Republic for my tummy tuck revision (30 years old) and butt implants.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> It is a shame I did not ask a stranger to check my blind spot last year. I went ahead with rhino with Ion in March to get a 'big nose'. He should have said there was nothing wrong with my nose? My Korean father had died in February 2016 and I was not in the right frame of mind. I see that now. I remember my doc friend even threatened to contact Ion to stop him from operating on my nose and was surprised he agreed to rhino. Here are the photos of the big nose postop in March. Wow I messed with a normal nose!


Miss O - see the no makeup candid shots here, you eyelids are saggy. Have you had them done since? or is it your clever makeup which is hiding the skin? I have had two revisions and there comes a point where you can't remove skin anymore or you can't close your eyes so next option to rejuvenate is for a browlift and fat grafting there.
Oops ignore my comment because when i start going over other pages, you have answered this.


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Miss O - Apart from the bullhorn liplift - did you do fg in the lips? or have you had fillers? I am Chinese and very superstitious. The Chinese believe that longer the line between your nose and lips it means a longer life. When i was younger never cared but as I am getting to the final chapter, pushing 68, I want heaps more time to enjoy my plastic fantastic results. At least if you do check out early, you will look great in the coffin! Getting back to the subject, I note that one of the clinics and only one in SK offer a mouth lift. This is better and also adds volume back and anti-aging. I am seriously considering lip implants so I have seen a long of great results. I will be full of plastic if I do that as I am also revising my nose implant (36 years old), replacing my boob implants (30 years old) and considering having butt implants done in Mexico this year. It is so ironic up until i retired (not through my choice as our dept shut down and no-one wants to hire 65 year olds) I worked in a stressful job and ate badly, was UK size 16. Now at 67-68 by cutting carbs I dropped 3 dress sizes in a year but all the fat has gone from my former big round face and my butt has disappear. You can't have BOTH!! When I was a size 16 at 66 I sent photos to The Line PS and they wrote back asked me if I had already had work done! No I haven't not even fillers or botox. Fat is youthful. Anyway the reason for my butt implant is because I don't have enough to lipo for a BBL anymore, not for the Kim Kardashian projection I want. Also I have to hurry up because I think most clinic would hesitate to operate on me because of my age!!! I don't like the SK noses, try as I might. So flying from Australia to Manila to see Dr Yappy (Icon Clinic) then on to Seoul either Banobagi or JK for my facelift and revision eye job with micro fat grafting for the hollowness in my eye area.  Come home to recuperate for about 4 weeks then off to Mexico or the Dominican Republic for my tummy tuck revision (30 years old) and butt implants.


Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 I see my future in you! Yep I shall be like you at 68, getting another ps overhaul! It is amazing how relaxing retirement is and yes as you are no longer in a sedentary job, you do lose weight. Have a look at Prof Lee at asps and dr yoon at dream along with dr oh at banobagi for facelifts. JK will be very expensive for foreigners imo. Yes fat does make one look younger, whether natural chubby fat or transferred fat.

I have been pondering why my face looked so fat and ugly in my sky news photos from last year and small in my selfies this year. Can it be that a weight loss from 102 to 96 lbs or 6 lbs can shrink the face that much? I wore my head bandage earlier this month and now don't have to as it seems to have tightened my face. Wow you hold the record for a nose implant! I forgot I will need to exchange my breast implants when the 20 years approaches...or at age 66. I tell ya, the longer we live, the more maintenance we need. lol.

You must post after your transformations! From 68 to looking 25 will definitely be the record and something I will aspire to in my 60s too! MVP will sort you out for young eyes and lid fat grafting. I had face fat grafting at DA but I think they now are charging 3.6 to 5 million so are way too expensive. MVP and FRESH both still charge 2 million which is more reasonable and that includes a top up.


----------



## MissOrange

In less than 4 weeks I shall be back at MVP in Korea for lid fat graft top up. Hopefully the last top up needed. Here is my photo from my April 2017 trip. Loving the eyelid fat graft top up. Remember in old age you want small or close to monolid creases as big creases look extremely aging when hollow. When the swelling from fat graft injections goes down, your super young face is revealed. I look super young here and look forward to looking like a teen again shortly. lol.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on less is more, a saying I read on another site by a very wise lady who sadly ended up looking 20 years older after the face sagged +++ after zygoma and jaw reduction. I have also found the negative review of a gng zygoma reduction patient and seen the x rays and photos but cannot read Chinese. I am now convinced that we must keep repeating to ourselves less is more, less is more. I can't bear to think of the several $1000s these ladies spent on painful bone surgery to end up unhappy and requiring further expensive surgery like facelifts, or revision. I think the bottom line is if you do go down the bone contouring route as your facial bones are very distorted, either get it with full face fat grafting as bongquiqui did at regen or even add a smas facelift too as bongquiqui later did at banobagi. But she could afford all these most expensive plastic surgery procedures and most of us cannot. The costs may start spiralling! Remember that smas facelifts are both expensive and may not be permanent.
> 
> I am now 90% against getting zygoma or angle of the jaw reduction on the basis that the cheapest method to contour one's face is with hair and boots smashbox contouring kit and the risk of +++ sagging at my adjumma age is pretty high! Imagine paying several $1000s and after the swelling goes down, seeing a face that has literally dropped southwards! That would break my heart after achieving looking decades younger! So far I have been lucky with a wee bit of sagging from fat graft cannula placement and skin stretching.
> 
> I think I shall now turn my attention to noninvasive and invasive facelifts and do some research. I have relied on dermal fillers in my 40s to avoid a facelift, and then fat grafting in my 50s to replace the fat loss with aging. A positive is that I grew up as an indoors child, rarely going out to play so have avoided the sun as much as I could throughout my years and I always applied spf makeup to my face in my 20s and 30s and never went out without a layer of protective makeup, which may be why my face is less saggy than a normal 50+ year old, as the sun is the most aging factor there is! I have met some girls who go out bare faced! Remember parasols under the hot sun, spf and limit outdoors activities. You cannot start paying for facelifts from your 30s as it will cost a fortune by the time you reach your 50s or 60s.
> 
> Also remember that after menopause, your bone may start reabsorbing as you no longer have protective levels of oestrogen so you do need as much facial bone mass as you can to make it to your 80s and still look young.


Hi Doc 
Can add your two cents worth on screws? It seems that the only way a wide face can be made smaller requires screws. I toy with the idea and then I say, No way not worth it.  I guess you sort of have answered it partly above. I mean the risk at my age is not worth it.  
I quote from MyDeepestSecret who started her thread in Aug 2013 
Patients who have metal plates, pins, and screws in the body are rightfully concerned about the safety and long-term effects of these devices left inside. Surgeons share those concerns but do not want to perform an additional surgery to remove them if unnecessary. And sometimes when plates are used to hold bone together after a fracture, bone grows around them embedding this fixation device too much to remove it easily.

So just how safe are these devices? In this article, Dr. David G. Dennison from the Orthopedic Surgery department of Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota summarizes what we know from research and clinical studies on this topic. In particular, Dr. Dennison zeroes in on titanium volar plates used to treat distal radius fractures.

Titanium has replaced stainless steel these days for fixation devices. It is more compatible with the human biology, which means it's less likely to cause a reaction. When an inflammatory response does occur, it is mild and limited (doesn't last). Titanium can also be combined with other metals such as cobalt, chromium, and molybdenum to create a lighter but more durable material.

Volar plates refer to the location of fixation devices -- placed on the front or inside of the forearm. Radius fracture tells us the radial bone in the forearm is broken. There are two bones in the forearm: ulna and radius. The radius is on the thumb-side of the forearm. Distal means the break is down toward the hand rather than up by the elbow.

There are all kinds of concerns about metal plates. Animal studies show there is an effect on the immune system. There is evidence that the metal can cause the entire immune system to be suppressed (under functioning). This immune system shut down could result in infections. Some studies have shown that metal implants can cause an increase in white blood cells called lymphocyte reactivity. There is a worry that this effect could cause implant loosening or failure, though it hasn't been proven yet.

Another potential problem with titanium plates is the debris that occurs. Tiny flakes of this metal chip off and enter the bloodstream, nearby soft tissues, and/or joint. Both titanium and stainless steel have been found in all these anatomical areas of the human body (titanium slightly more often and in greater amounts than stainless steel). Metal debris is more likely to develop when the implant is rubbing against another surface. This wearing or rubbing phenomenon is called fretting.

Then the question arises: can this metal debris lead to the formation of cancer? Studies in mice show there is the potential for metal wear debris to damage chromosomes making it a potential carcinogen (cancer producing). Next, developers of these products asked if coating the plate would protect the body from corrosion or metal debris? This question remains unanswered so far.

One thing we do know from studies -- placing a long titanium or metal pin down through the middle of a bone to stabilize it is linked with a much higher increase in the amount of metal found in the bloodstream. Chromium seems to have the highest levels reported for these intramedullary nails. Intramedullary titanium nails also increase the amount of titanium found in blood samples, but not as much as chromium. Evidently, the large surface area of the intramedullary nail exposes the bone to more titanium, thus the higher levels of serum (blood) metal.

Removing titanium plates does slowly reduce the levels of metal in the blood and soft tissues. But it can take a year or more after removal to bring these elevated levels back down to normal. Dr. Dennison reports that there aren't specific studies of the effects of titanium plates (prolonged use or removal) from the treatment of distal volar radial fractures.

Summarizing, Dr. Dennison says that the information found on this topic seems to suggest that the overall level of risk when leaving titanium plates in the forearm is acceptable. The volar surface plate is not a large implant and doesn't usually involve nails down through the . Instead, small screws placed perpendicular to the plate to hold it in place are more typical. Still, there are concerns and risks reported that deserve specific study and more conclusive answers. Future studies are needed to address these concerns and questions.

http://www.eorthopod.com/content/can-titanium-plates-be-left-in-the-body-safely


----------



## missy_sana

Hello @MissOrange ! Nice to meet you and finally greet you!  I have been lurking in these forums for a while now and only have just signed up!  I am also from the UK, but now living abroad in Asia.

Recently, I had the same exact experience as you @MissOrange  in doing Philtrum Reduction surgery with Dr Choi at MVP, and I'm also not happy that on surgery day Elizabeth revealed Dr Choi was going to cut around my vermillion lip border, instead of the bullhorn lift that showed them pictures of at the beginning.  Unfortunately, I didn't notice your posts until AFTER I was recovering from this surgery, along with my 2nd Revision Rhinoplasty (also by Dr Choi).

I am also going back to MVP this month around Valentines Day & Seollal to see if Dr Choi can fix it with Lip Filler and extra scar treatment, and also for Full Face FG & Primary Non-Incision DES with Dr Seo.

Are you there for the same week too, @MissOrange ?  And how many months until the scar on your vermillion border became undetectable?  Or do you always wear dark lipstick deliberately to mask the remaining lip scar?  Because that is what I am doing now with bold red lip, 3 months post-surgery, as nude/shiny lip glosses just highlight attention on my uneven scars!


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Hi MissO Please correct me if I am wrong. The after pic you had facial contouring and FG and did your eyes? So no facelifting? Pretty amazing results.  Where did you go>


Hi @SheOnlyLooks25, I have only had chin shaving in the UK. I keep toying with the idea of facial contouring with zygoma and angle of jaw reduction but not sure as my face is not as square as the instagram befores and I seem to have managed to slim my face with weight loss down to 95-96 lbs. I still have my 3 consultations at regen, tlps and gng booked when I go to February later this month. My friends and husband will kill me if I proceed as they say I do not need it. I may try a mini facelift. Will keep this thread posted with what I end up doing. You can create a facial contour illusion with oversized non prescription glasses, styling your hair forward to reduce inches off your face and take selfies from an angle that makes your face more heart shaped. The problem is when I tie my hair back and take off my glasses, I think aargh!!! I need facial contouring! lol. No facelifting yet. Dermal fillers and fat graft lifts a saggy face!


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Hi Doc
> Can add your two cents worth on screws? It seems that the only way a wide face can be made smaller requires screws. I toy with the idea and then I say, No way not worth it.  I guess you sort of have answered it partly above. I mean the risk at my age is not worth it.
> I quote from MyDeepestSecret who started her thread in Aug 2013
> Patients who have metal plates, pins, and screws in the body are rightfully concerned about the safety and long-term effects of these devices left inside. Surgeons share those concerns but do not want to perform an additional surgery to remove them if unnecessary. And sometimes when plates are used to hold bone together after a fracture, bone grows around them embedding this fixation device too much to remove it easily.
> 
> So just how safe are these devices? In this article, Dr. David G. Dennison from the Orthopedic Surgery department of Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota summarizes what we know from research and clinical studies on this topic. In particular, Dr. Dennison zeroes in on titanium volar plates used to treat distal radius fractures.
> 
> Titanium has replaced stainless steel these days for fixation devices. It is more compatible with the human biology, which means it's less likely to cause a reaction. When an inflammatory response does occur, it is mild and limited (doesn't last). Titanium can also be combined with other metals such as cobalt, chromium, and molybdenum to create a lighter but more durable material.
> 
> Volar plates refer to the location of fixation devices -- placed on the front or inside of the forearm. Radius fracture tells us the radial bone in the forearm is broken. There are two bones in the forearm: ulna and radius. The radius is on the thumb-side of the forearm. Distal means the break is down toward the hand rather than up by the elbow.
> 
> There are all kinds of concerns about metal plates. Animal studies show there is an effect on the immune system. There is evidence that the metal can cause the entire immune system to be suppressed (under functioning). This immune system shut down could result in infections. Some studies have shown that metal implants can cause an increase in white blood cells called lymphocyte reactivity. There is a worry that this effect could cause implant loosening or failure, though it hasn't been proven yet.
> 
> Another potential problem with titanium plates is the debris that occurs. Tiny flakes of this metal chip off and enter the bloodstream, nearby soft tissues, and/or joint. Both titanium and stainless steel have been found in all these anatomical areas of the human body (titanium slightly more often and in greater amounts than stainless steel). Metal debris is more likely to develop when the implant is rubbing against another surface. This wearing or rubbing phenomenon is called fretting.
> 
> Then the question arises: can this metal debris lead to the formation of cancer? Studies in mice show there is the potential for metal wear debris to damage chromosomes making it a potential carcinogen (cancer producing). Next, developers of these products asked if coating the plate would protect the body from corrosion or metal debris? This question remains unanswered so far.
> 
> One thing we do know from studies -- placing a long titanium or metal pin down through the middle of a bone to stabilize it is linked with a much higher increase in the amount of metal found in the bloodstream. Chromium seems to have the highest levels reported for these intramedullary nails. Intramedullary titanium nails also increase the amount of titanium found in blood samples, but not as much as chromium. Evidently, the large surface area of the intramedullary nail exposes the bone to more titanium, thus the higher levels of serum (blood) metal.
> 
> Removing titanium plates does slowly reduce the levels of metal in the blood and soft tissues. But it can take a year or more after removal to bring these elevated levels back down to normal. Dr. Dennison reports that there aren't specific studies of the effects of titanium plates (prolonged use or removal) from the treatment of distal volar radial fractures.
> 
> Summarizing, Dr. Dennison says that the information found on this topic seems to suggest that the overall level of risk when leaving titanium plates in the forearm is acceptable. The volar surface plate is not a large implant and doesn't usually involve nails down through the . Instead, small screws placed perpendicular to the plate to hold it in place are more typical. Still, there are concerns and risks reported that deserve specific study and more conclusive answers. Future studies are needed to address these concerns and questions.
> 
> http://www.eorthopod.com/content/can-titanium-plates-be-left-in-the-body-safely


@SheOnlyLooks25 you have totally scared me off zygoma reduction! lol. There is a quick zygoma they talk about by causing a fracture and pushing the zygoma in but 2 people who had quick zygoma were not happy. Aargh it's the instagram photos that make it look so easy and the beautiful small face afters look so enticing!! I think if your zygoma is huge and sticking out like a gargoyle, then it's worth the risk but for minor cm changes, best not to go there.


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Hello @MissOrange ! Nice to meet you and finally greet you!  I have been lurking in these forums for a while now and only have just signed up!  I am also from the UK, but now living abroad in Asia.
> 
> Recently, I had the same exact experience as you @MissOrange  in doing Philtrum Reduction surgery with Dr Choi at MVP, and I'm also not happy that on surgery day Elizabeth revealed Dr Choi was going to cut around my vermillion lip border, instead of the bullhorn lift that showed them pictures of at the beginning.  Unfortunately, I didn't notice your posts until AFTER I was recovering from this surgery, along with my 2nd Revision Rhinoplasty (also by Dr Choi).
> 
> I am also going back to MVP this month around Valentines Day & Seollal to see if Dr Choi can fix it with Lip Filler and extra scar treatment, and also for Full Face FG & Primary Non-Incision DES with Dr Seo.
> 
> Are you there for the same week too, @MissOrange ?  And how many months until the scar on your vermillion border became undetectable?  Or do you always wear dark lipstick deliberately to mask the remaining lip scar?  Because that is what I am doing now with bold red lip, 3 months post-surgery, as nude/shiny lip glosses just highlight attention on my uneven scars!


Hi @missy_sana
I am sorry you had a similar experience with getting vermillion instead of bullhorn with Dr Choi. That is disappointing. Yes I tried to warn people with my experience. In hindsight when they changed the lift from bullhorn to vermillion on the morning of the surgery, I should have asked for a refund as this was misrepresentation as we had agreed on bullhorn at consultation and that was what I had paid 2.5 million won for the day before my surgery. I even tried restylane in my lip after the failed vermillion lip lift left me with a thinner upper lip after the swelling went and the philtrum remained long, so the definitive procedure is bullhorn to reduce both the skin, soft tissues and muscle. I think I was more focussed on seeing my upper lip shrink to a thin sliver after the swelling went, than the scar. I would say 6 months as when I got my bullhorn with Miss Mills 6 months later I did not notice the vermillion border. 

Here is a selfie from today without makeup so you can see the bullhorn scar which I guess korean surgeons are afraid patients would not like and my lips. There is slight loss of the pink pigment of the lip on one side of the upper lip border. My lips and nose seem slightly askew ie my lips look more to the right and my nose more to the left. I correct this with lip liner and lipstick. Not sure if the skewness was from the vermillion or bullhorn liplift. Wow I guess I have tried both lip lifts and hands down the bullhorn wins, save for the scar as not only does it shorten the philtrum length but also everts the upper lip permanently so you always have a full upper lip and never need fillers.

How long are you in Korea? I arrive on the 25th. Send me a pm and we can kakao!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> @SheOnlyLooks25 you have totally scared me off zygoma reduction! lol. There is a quick zygoma they talk about by causing a fracture and pushing the zygoma in but 2 people who had quick zygoma were not happy. Aargh it's the instagram photos that make it look so easy and the beautiful small face afters look so enticing!! I think if your zygoma is huge and sticking out like a gargoyle, then it's worth the risk but for minor cm changes, best not to go there.


Agreed.  As long as I keep my weight down, I am ok. Tiffany Amber Thiessen face round face blows up when she puts on weight, ditto Eurasian model, Chrissy Teigen.  I still might consider chin shaving though.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Miss O - Apart from the bullhorn liplift - did you do fg in the lips? or have you had fillers? I am Chinese and very superstitious. The Chinese believe that longer the line between your nose and lips it means a longer life. When i was younger never cared but as I am getting to the final chapter, pushing 68, I want heaps more time to enjoy my plastic fantastic results. At least if you do check out early, you will look great in the coffin! Getting back to the subject, I note that one of the clinics and only one in SK offer a mouth lift. This is better and also adds volume back and anti-aging. I am seriously considering lip implants so I have seen a long of great results. I will be full of plastic if I do that as I am also revising my nose implant (36 years old), replacing my boob implants (30 years old) and considering having butt implants done in Mexico this year. It is so ironic up until i retired (not through my choice as our dept shut down and no-one wants to hire 65 year olds) I worked in a stressful job and ate badly, was UK size 16. Now at 67-68 by cutting carbs I dropped 3 dress sizes in a year but all the fat has gone from my former big round face and my butt has disappear. You can't have BOTH!! When I was a size 16 at 66 I sent photos to The Line PS and they wrote back asked me if I had already had work done! No I haven't not even fillers or botox. Fat is youthful. Anyway the reason for my butt implant is because I don't have enough to lipo for a BBL anymore, not for the Kim Kardashian projection I want. Also I have to hurry up because I think most clinic would hesitate to operate on me because of my age!!! I don't like the SK noses, try as I might. So flying from Australia to Manila to see Dr Yappy (Icon Clinic) then on to Seoul either Banobagi or JK for my facelift and revision eye job with micro fat grafting for the hollowness in my eye area.  Come home to recuperate for about 4 weeks then off to Mexico or the Dominican Republic for my tummy tuck revision (30 years old) and butt implants.


Hi @SheOnlyLooks25, everyone's philtrum lengthens with age so I guess the chinese are really saying that if your philtrum is long, you have lived for a long time. Noooo, do not put implants in your lips! Implants may make your lips protrude which may give you a duck face! The bullhorn lip lift will both shorten the philtrum and evert your upper lip naturally. Noooo, do not get butt implants in Mexico! Just do walking exercise and stairs! My bottom sticks out as far as my chest, both 33.5 inches! I am positive the gluts have been built up with going up and down the stairs at home 50 times a day! I do a lot of housework and am always forgetting something in the kitchen so have to go back downstairs then upstairs. I can't do the exercises on fitness videos...too boring and hard work.

I only trust Dr Seo at MVP for my eyes. Lid fat grafting has to be done by an eye specialist in my opinion. Try Prof Lee at asps for your facelift and Dr Seo for your eyes. I would if I needed smas facelift.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Agreed.  As long as I keep my weight down, I am ok. Tiffany Amber Thiessen face round face blows up when she puts on weight, ditto Eurasian model, Chrissy Teigen.  I still might consider chin shaving though.


Oh God, remember this story. Why would she need jaw shaving?
*The death of Wang Bei: Cosmetic surgery as a moral choice*
Posted by Jan on December 5, 2010 @ 10:16 pm








 In my customized Google news, I have a category for cosmetic surgery. Most items that turn up are self-serving PR announcements, but recently there was lengthy coverage of the death during cosmetic surgery of aspiring Chinese pop star Wang Bei.

The details are tragic: She was only 24. Ironic: She was already beautiful. And dramatic: Her mother was having the same procedure at the exact same time. So her mother woke up to discover her daughter was dead. Or perhaps not. According to conflicting reports, her mother was told nothing until the next day. The news reports out of China do not strike me as especially reliable.

For example, Wang Bei’s death was first reported as an anaesthetic accident, but the majority of stories describe the cause of death as bleeding from the jaw. Wang was having facial bone-grinding surgery “to make her jaw line fashionably narrow and her face smaller.” (Chinese women are said to prefer an oval face shaped like a ”goose egg.”)

The blood from Wang’s jaw drained into her windpipe, and she suffocated. Is that an “anaesthetic accident?” Wang’s surgeon claims the operation was a success and that Wang died of an unexpected heart problem several hours after the procedure.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Oh God, remember this story. Why would she need jaw shaving?
> *The death of Wang Bei: Cosmetic surgery as a moral choice*
> Posted by Jan on December 5, 2010 @ 10:16 pm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my customized Google news, I have a category for cosmetic surgery. Most items that turn up are self-serving PR announcements, but recently there was lengthy coverage of the death during cosmetic surgery of aspiring Chinese pop star Wang Bei.
> 
> The details are tragic: She was only 24. Ironic: She was already beautiful. And dramatic: Her mother was having the same procedure at the exact same time. So her mother woke up to discover her daughter was dead. Or perhaps not. According to conflicting reports, her mother was told nothing until the next day. The news reports out of China do not strike me as especially reliable.
> 
> For example, Wang Bei’s death was first reported as an anaesthetic accident, but the majority of stories describe the cause of death as bleeding from the jaw. Wang was having facial bone-grinding surgery “to make her jaw line fashionably narrow and her face smaller.” (Chinese women are said to prefer an oval face shaped like a ”goose egg.”)
> 
> The blood from Wang’s jaw drained into her windpipe, and she suffocated. Is that an “anaesthetic accident?” Wang’s surgeon claims the operation was a success and that Wang died of an unexpected heart problem several hours after the procedure.


Hi @SheOnlyLooks25, yes plastic surgery can be dangerous, especially in a foreign country, which is why it is so important to do thorough research on the hospital, the surgeon, and make sure they do not swap doctors. This forum is really useful and was how I learned about MVP, ie from Australian smittenkitten. You then join kakao groups for the year you are travelling to get real time reviews and try to hook up with someone having the same procedure or who has had it done successfully so you can just copy their journey.


----------



## Gats

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> So flying from Australia to Manila to see Dr Yappy (Icon Clinic) then ...



I would be scared off from getting any work done there after the death of Shiryl Saturnino at their clinic last year.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

Gats said:


> I would be scared off from getting any work done there after the death of Shiryl Saturnino at their clinic last year.


Unfortunately she was operated on for 2 procedure, boobs and something else. Op started at 5pm and did not finished until 2am. She was under GA for too long.  I think her body couldn't handle it. There are a lot of ops that go for that long and people are OK.  She had previous shorter sx there under GA no probs that's why she went back. I am ONLY doing my nose with him.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Unfortunately she was operated on for 2 procedure, boobs and something else. Op started at 5pm and did not finished until 2am. She was under GA for too long.  I think her body couldn't handle it. There are a lot of ops that go for that long and people are OK.  She had previous shorter sx there under GA no probs that's why she went back. I am ONLY doing my nose with him.


Nooooo @SheOnlyLooks25 do not go to a hospital with a history of a young patient death from ps! It is a major red flag. Some hospitals use nurse anaesthetists. Some have one anaesthetist doctor covering several operating rooms. There may be a major fault with this hospital if a patient dies. The other red flag is that the operation lasted over 9 hours. BA only takes one hour, liposuction 1 hour, etc., so it is a major red flag if it lasted over 9 hours for 3 procedures. Sounds like they may have run into a major surgical complication? Or did a junior do the operation as juniors tend to operate much slower and may take hours longer. A good anaesthetist can keep a patient asleep for even 12 hours without death. Having read this report, sounds like she may have lost a lot of blood from liposuction and then gone into cardiogenic shock and multiple organ failure or the anaesthetist did something wrong with her drugs and caused her body to go into shock and organ failure. I keep thinking of those scary movies where a patient goes into shock and dies as they are paralysed but still awake and feel the entire surgery and have immense pain!

I'll always remember that awful GA experience at DA hospital in korea where I thought I was going to die when I awoke as I could not breathe properly and had nitrous oxide coming out of my mouth. I will never go back to DA! They even have you sign a consent form that actually says you will feel horrible from GA! I have never awoken feeling dread and struggling to breathe from GA in the UK and no consent form in the UK mentions GA will be 'horrible'.

https://philnews.ph/2017/03/31/shiryl-saturnino-autopsy-result-reveals-cause-death/


----------



## Gats

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Unfortunately she was operated on for 2 procedure, boobs and something else. Op started at 5pm and did not finished until 2am. She was under GA for too long.  I think her body couldn't handle it. There are a lot of ops that go for that long and people are OK.  She had previous shorter sx there under GA no probs that's why she went back. I am ONLY doing my nose with him.



Their clinic showed poor judgement, ethics, and medical practice with her, I would never trust a place like that. She was only 29, the fault lies with the clinic. Given specialized anesthesia treatment is needed for older people, I personally wouldn't risk getting any work done there at all.


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## Starry Eyes

Hi Miss Orange, i just read this entire thread and I'm so super inspired by your transformation and how upfront you are in sharing everything! I'm 38 and have decided that I'm going to meet 40 as the best version of myself that I can. I have a question about legs... How did you maintain such smooth and vein-free legs? (I did sclerotherapy about 2 months ago and the effect was minimal. I'll probably go for another round soon)


----------



## MissOrange

Starry Eyes said:


> Hi Miss Orange, i just read this entire thread and I'm so super inspired by your transformation and how upfront you are in sharing everything! I'm 38 and have decided that I'm going to meet 40 as the best version of myself that I can. I have a question about legs... How did you maintain such smooth and vein-free legs? (I did sclerotherapy about 2 months ago and the effect was minimal. I'll probably go for another round soon)


Hi @Starry Eyes, wow you read all 30 pages! Yes 40 is a milestone age and you can look 20 again! I shave my legs with a venus razor lying in a bubble bath which keeps my legs smooth. My blood pressure is around 90/60 which is normal for me as I am the size of a 13 yo child. Low weight and low BP keep veins tiny. Also it is freezing cold in London these days which also shrinks veins. In hot weather, veins engorge. If sclerotherapy does not work, you could look into vein stripping surgery.


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## catelet

I agree with MissOrange about the bullhorn lip lift--it's on my list after my revision rhino is completely healed--her result is so stunning and youthful.  

Until then, due to a scar,  I was considering the lip lift around the vermillion border to get rid of it (although it's a gamble as I could switch one scar for another--so I've decided against it presently), so I'm trying needling and I actually am seeing some nice preliminary results although it is early on. I just started a few weeks ago. I decided that instead of doing it weekly, I'm going to do it once every 3 weeks to make sure and allow full healing/remodeling. I've also noticed my lips are a bit fuller, which is a plus for me.  It hasn't even been a month yet of doing this, so I can't really predict any final results right now but I wanted to share that it's encouraging so far, using a .05 dermaroller which was inexpensive ordered from Amazon (there are many to  choose from).  So far, I've seen more results around my lips than around my crow's feet and forehead (I've actually seen no results in the latter 2 areas).

**I'm not a doctor --there are risks associated with needling--so each person needs to do their research on it and make an informed decision on it. For myself, I feel the potential benefits outweigh any potential risks and I'm being cautious/as careful with it as I reasonably can.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> I agree with MissOrange about the bullhorn lip lift--it's on my list after my revision rhino is completely healed--her result is so stunning and youthful.
> 
> Until then, due to a scar,  I was considering the lip lift around the vermillion border to get rid of it (although it's a gamble as I could switch one scar for another--so I've decided against it presently), so I'm trying needling and I actually am seeing some nice preliminary results although it is early on. I just started a few weeks ago. I decided that instead of doing it weekly, I'm going to do it once every 3 weeks to make sure and allow full healing/remodeling. I've also noticed my lips are a bit fuller, which is a plus for me.  It hasn't even been a month yet of doing this, so I can't really predict any final results right now but I wanted to share that it's encouraging so far, using a .05 dermaroller which was inexpensive ordered from Amazon (there are many to  choose from).  So far, I've seen more results around my lips than around my crow's feet and forehead (I've actually seen no results in the latter 2 areas).
> 
> **I'm not a doctor --there are risks associated with needling--so each person needs to do their research on it and make an informed decision on it. For myself, I feel the potential benefits outweigh any potential risks and I'm being cautious/as careful with it as I reasonably can.


Hi @catelet, what is this needling? I googled dermaroller and needling. Wow the b&a's look amazing but a bit scary to have needles cutting into the face like that. Yes the only downside with the bullhorn LL is the scar. Some have bullhorn by cutting the nasal sill to try to hide the scar but this may lead to nostril distortion which is why I opted for the visible scar.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

The secret is in the numbing cream you can order on the internet. My reservation is this, too much cream can cause heart palpitations. It even happened to a patient at a derma clinic. Watch YouTube vids on needling at home. Especially the Duchess of Dermis.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> The secret is in the numbing cream you can order on the internet. My reservation is this, too much cream can cause heart palpitations. It even happened to a patient at a derma clinic. Watch YouTube vids on needling at home. Especially the Duchess of Dermis.


Hi @SheOnlyLooks25 yes the lidocaine can cause palpitations but the user would have to apply a copious amount as it is applied topically. Ah what we do in the pursuit of beauty or rejuvenation.


----------



## catelet

MissOrange, I do plan to take the risk of a scar from the bullhorn lift--your result is amazing and among many wonderful results I have seen. It's just a question of when I can do it!  

I have tried a small amount of lidocaine on my forehead sheonlylooks25, but it didn't do much. The tender place is the forehead, so I just go slow and gentle there like I do on the rest of my face. What I do is *not* comparable to the youtube lady you mentioned above! I use a smaller needle, roll it gently, and I have never drawn blood. The benefits remain to be seen as yet (at least for me) but I've only been doing it a short time--however, I do see a tiny improvement on my lip area which is encouraging presently! 

As I said I am new to doing this and learning as I go. 
It is a personal decision whether to do needling as there are some risks associated with it, not unlike plastic surgery.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> MissOrange, I do plan to take the risk of a scar from the bullhorn lift--your result is amazing and among many wonderful results I have seen. It's just a question of when I can do it!
> 
> I have tried a small amount of lidocaine on my forehead sheonlylooks25, but it didn't do much. The tender place is the forehead, so I just go slow and gentle there like I do on the rest of my face. What I do is *not* comparable to the youtube lady you mentioned above! I use a smaller needle, roll it gently, and I have never drawn blood. The benefits remain to be seen as yet (at least for me) but I've only been doing it a short time--however, I do see a tiny improvement on my lip area which is encouraging presently!
> 
> As I said I am new to doing this and learning as I go.
> It is a personal decision whether to do needling as there are some risks associated with it, not unlike plastic surgery.


@catelet happy it is working for you on your lips. Aargh in 25 minutes I see my old face from 2 years ago on UK tv. This was before my bullhorn LL so will be interesting to watch this. The tv crew filmed me for 2 days following me around my home and out shopping and eating korean food in London. Can't wait to see which bits they used for the broadcast but must brace myself as I was uglier 2 years ago. lol. Just great, 2 million Brits get to see my 20 mm philtrum above wafer thin lips in action! Heavens save me!


----------



## MissOrange

Here are 3 screenshots from the tv show filmed October 2016 where you can see how long my philtrum was and how thin my upper lip was before bullhorn LL January 2017. In the photos i have had 2 full face fat grafts in July and September 2016. I shall be on number 5 for lid fat graft later this month and hopefully fingers crossed it will be the last needed. You can also see why I am unhappy with the front view of my short nose with wonky nostrils for which I have paid £8910 total, and seeking an opinion of Dr Seong at GNG later this month. What do you think? Shall I go for it and get a tertiary rib revision with Dr Seong to give me a long, bigger nose or has the lip lift seen in earlier photos in this thread made the short nose bearable?


----------



## catelet

MissOrange said:


> Here are 3 screenshots from the tv show filmed October 2016 where you can see how long my philtrum was and how thin my upper lip was before bullhorn LL January 2017. In the photos i have had 2 full face fat grafts in July and September 2016. I shall be on number 5 for lid fat graft later this month and hopefully fingers crossed it will be the last needed. You can also see why I am unhappy with the front view of my short nose with wonky nostrils for which I have paid £8910 total, and seeking an opinion of Dr Seong at GNG later this month. What do you think? Shall I go for it and get a tertiary rib revision with Dr Seong to give me a long, bigger nose or has the lip lift seen in earlier photos in this thread made the short nose bearable?



You are gorgeous. I vote to leave your cute, youthful-looking nose. But of course you need to be happy with it--that's what counts. Your consult coming up will give your more info to consider too, of course!


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> You are gorgeous. I vote to leave your cute, youthful-looking nose. But of course you need to be happy with it--that's what counts. Your consult coming up will give your more info to consider too, of course!


Aww thanks @catelet. 19 days to go before I fly to the land of plastic surgery where the people look so beautiful! I am going to be so tempted to get facial contouring and a tertiary rhino! Must stay cool and stay focussed. Eyelid fg top up and mini facelift at most I should think or maybe get more fat graft to the lower face? Thank goodness I do not live in Korea or I would be at the plastic surgery candy store all the time!


----------



## missy_sana

Most members and visitors of this PS forum are likely to have varying degrees of Body Dysmorphia.  Myself included.

It takes discipline to know when to stop or at least let their body heal properly, as the real-life Ken Doll has learnt the hard way.  Food for thought:


----------



## catelet

Thank goodness I do not live in Korea or I would be at the plastic surgery candy store all the time![/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Lol I get that MissOrange!! Are you considering GNG for the minilift?


----------



## missy_sana

Like what @catelet said, try the other face procedures and see if they complement your Barbie Line nose.  Your current youthful look is great as it is!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

joybo said:


> Thanks @MissOrange ! I did my bone surgeries at GNG. Yeah sometimes I still can't believe I actually did it. I almost didn't do my zygomas because I was afraid of sagging (I'm 35 yo), but now they are my favorite part. I'm still very swollen, but if I don't talk people think I got a fat graft. So I don't know how it will be after all the swelling goes down. Now that I fixed the bone structure, next is to fine tune the soft tissues, so I do plan to get lip lift and fat graft and be done once and for all... well... until I need a face lift in 10 yrs. I plan to do a detailed post soon so I'll try to have some photos up with that. Yeah I feel like my philtrum is around 15mm or slightly longer and my ridges are pretty flat. I recently found a doc in Florida I will likely go to, Miguel Mascaro, in case anyone else is interested. He has several reviews on RealSelf. His price is also very affordable, around $2k I believe.


Miguel is amazing. To quote him on his this photo on lip lifting, "if you can't see the scar on Day 1, you won't be able in a few weeks"


----------



## missy_sana

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Miguel is amazing. To quote him on his this photo on lip lifting, "if you can't see the scar on Day 1, you won't be able in a few weeks"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3958730



 OMG, this is the Philtrum/lip lift result I had been yearning for!  I already saw those RealSelf photos of Dr Mascaro's work, but I thought the invisible stitching was due to clever camera angle trickery! Amazing skills


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Miguel is amazing. To quote him on his this photo on lip lifting, "if you can't see the scar on Day 1, you won't be able in a few weeks"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3958730


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Like what @catelet said, try the other face procedures and see if they complement your Barbie Line nose.  Your current youthful look is great as it is!


Thank you @missy_sana! Yes I am at risk of messing up my face with doing more than I need so I thank you and @catelet for stopping me. I was contemplating zygoma at regen based on their great B&As on instagram I found yesterday as my cheeks are big when I smile and maybe too big at 45 degrees. We have to help each other and that is what I love about this forum. I have to stop looking at old photos of myself. The tv show reminded me of my old ugly face as it was filmed 2 years ago and I don't look like that anymore but still feel ugly on the inside when I look at the ugly shots. Yes I must keep saying barbie nose is good as I long for the Jun Ji Hyun or Han Ye Seul long Caucasian nose. In fact I noticed a lot of koreans with Caucasian noses in Korea. Does that mean almost everyone in Korea gets des and rhino?


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> OMG, this is the Philtrum/lip lift result I had been yearning for!  I already saw those RealSelf photos of Dr Mascaro's work, but I thought the invisible stitching was due to clever camera angle trickery! Amazing skills


Hi @SheOnlyLooks25 and @missy_sana, a word of caution. Make sure you see the patient photos up to a year after bullhorn LL. Mine postop looked amazing with the thinnest incision but changed as the months went by. Here are the almost immediate photos of my bullhorn LL and I thought wow I am going to get just a faint thin line scar but that did not happen. My keloid is about 2 mms thick, white and slightly raised now.


----------



## MissOrange

Compare the early postop photos to the current one of my keloid scar today, 13 months postop, raised, 2-3 mms in thickness, white and visible without makeup. I am on my third month of applying kelocote gel. Still, a small price to pay for a great bullhorn LL which knocks off years from your chronological age.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

If you look closely he also did her MOUTH CORNERS of first pic.  I need but it is almost invisible. Amazing stitching.
	

		
			
		

		
	





MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on using metabolism to lose weight. You have probably heard people say I have slow metabolism so cannot lose weight or I have high metabolism and can never put on weight.
> 
> As I was weaning off diet coke as I did not want to be exposed to aspartame, I was actually also weaning myself off caffeine. It has been months off diet coke so my tolerance to caffeine is pretty low.
> 
> Then I noticed that having one nespresso coffee a day sped up my metabolism as I seemed ultra sensitive to caffeine. It wasn't until I measured my resting heart rate, that I realised my heart rate was 104 and sometimes got up to 130! And the caffeine in nespresso kept my heart rate tachy for several hours. Sinus tachycardia so nothing to worry about as long as you are healthy, but this then explained why I am eating and still maintaining at 95-96 lbs or 95.2 lbs today or a bmi of 18.1. Yesterday I ate a buttery croissant, haagen daz mini cup, toast and salmon pate, tempura prawns, spaghetti and salmon. The day before was spaghetti vongole, indian biriyani, and a haagen daz mini cup. When people run on a treadmill they want to get their heart rate up to lose weight. One nespresso coffee a day seems to give me the benefits of a treadmill workout without leaving my bed! lol. Might be worth an experiment and see how sensitive you are to caffeine and how high your heart rate goes. My husband's resting heart rate is 56 so no chance of losing weight any time soon. He drinks cans of diet coke a day but he has built up a tolerance to caffeine.
> 
> Remember to drink a litre of water a day as it really helps with a young fresh complexion and fills your tummy. If you manage to lose weight, it is like getting free body liposuction (my thighs are now 17.5 and 18 inches in circumference but it is so cold there is no chance to wear shorts!) and it can transform your face for free too.


Hey MissO - coincidentally I caught the tail end of this on the ABC (like the BBC) and it worried me so I downloaded the transcript. I still have to digest it properly as I can't understand a lot of it. Wish you can DUMB IT down for me into simplistic language but from what you are saying is your resting heart rate... Unfortunately too long so I have to send you the link. Dr Norman Swan interviewing Edward D Frohlic, Prof Medicine, Harvard and Senior Physician, Brigham and Women's Hospital
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...lues-to-your-risk-of-death/9396700#transcript


----------



## catelet

MissOrange your LL truly did knock years off. Also the fat transfer to your eyes looks amazing. I should look into that myself at some point!


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## Starry Eyes

Miss Orange, please don't touch your beautiful nose! It fits your face perfectly and makes you look younger, IMO. I think it looks much better than your photo of the bigger one that didn't last. Fyi, I would love to have your tiny nose! I hate mine... sigh


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> If you look closely he also did her MOUTH CORNERS of first pic.  I need but it is almost invisible. Amazing stitching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3958888
> 
> 
> Hey MissO - coincidentally I caught the tail end of this on the ABC (like the BBC) and it worried me so I downloaded the transcript. I still have to digest it properly as I can't understand a lot of it. Wish you can DUMB IT down for me into simplistic language but from what you are saying is your resting heart rate... Unfortunately too long so I have to send you the link. Dr Norman Swan interviewing Edward D Frohlic, Prof Medicine, Harvard and Senior Physician, Brigham and Women's Hospital
> http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...lues-to-your-risk-of-death/9396700#transcript


Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 nice mouth corners! Yep looks like he is a good surgeon for bullhorn LL and lip border surgery too.

I know sustaining sinus tachycardia at rest for too long is not healthy. I bought a pulse oximeter to wear on my finger and saw that after eating a mini tub of haagen daz ice cream my resting heart rate goes down to the 60s which is good but not good for weight loss. lol.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Compare the early postop photos to the current one of my keloid scar today, 13 months postop, raised, 2-3 mms in thickness, white and visible without makeup. I am on my third month of applying kelocote gel. Still, a small price to pay for a great bullhorn LL which knocks off years from your chronological age.



Hope that some makeup concealer was able to cover up your bullhorn scar throughout the healing period?


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Hope that some makeup concealer was able to cover up your bullhorn scar throughout the healing period?


Thanks @missy_sana when the kelocote gel is on the scar foundation sticks to it like sticky goop so that doesn't work. When I wipe off the kelocote and apply foundation directly over the keloid, it never blends as well as the rest of the face. I think this is because the keloid skin doesn't absorb as well as porous normal skin. Maybe I should try a concealer instead as you suggest.


----------



## MissOrange

Starry Eyes said:


> Miss Orange, please don't touch your beautiful nose! It fits your face perfectly and makes you look younger, IMO. I think it looks much better than your photo of the bigger one that didn't last. Fyi, I would love to have your tiny nose! I hate mine... sigh


Thank you @Starry Eyes for your vote to keep the tiny nose. So far, you, @catelet, @dannythedragon, my husband, have told me to keep my current nose and to leave it alone. I still see Dr Seong at GNG in less than 3 weeks for an opinion as all consultations in korea are free! Sometimes I wish surgeons would say no it is not bad enough to fix or it is within the normal range but instead kakao clinics have replied to me that yes, it is a short nose or yes you need bridge and tip revision to fix your nose. Sigh. Keep telling me to leave my nose alone over the next 3 weeks so i am strong enough to resist temptation. Once I get on that plane back from Korea I am safe and out of plastic surgery candy land! lol.

@Starry Eyes I am saddened to read you are unhappy with your big nose. Noses are so tricky. Either we have small noses and want bigger or we have big noses and want smaller or we get rhino and then want the old nose back. Contouring makeup can make a big nose look thinner. Can't make a small nose look bigger with makeup lol. I have been watching asian channel and looking at all the noses of the ladies on tv. It feels like a qvc nose shopping channel lol.


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## missy_sana

@MissOrange The clinics want your money, so inevitably they will say yes, you need a nose revision.  

I had let 10 years pass after my Primary Rhino before getting the 2nd Revision at MVP, which is plenty of time to let the scar tissue heal, let gravity do its thing to make the nose tip & columnella drop naturally, and also for me to give serious consideration if I really need a revision or if my money can be better used on something else!


----------



## caliRoll

@MissOrange 
For the white raised keloid scarring, I would seriously look into getting cortisone / kenalog / Kenacort injections.   That will work very quickly to flatten the scar much more reliably than a topical gel.  Any dermatologist or plastic surgeon could give you injections.  Do a few small injections, so you can fine tune the results.  
I think you look good as well.  The tip is somewhat lifted, but it may not be worth the risk to undergo a major revision with rib.  

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on your consultation with Dr. Seong.  I've  only focused my research on him for my revision.  I'm in a tough spot as well.  My nose looks wonky, but the thought of ending up worse would be devastating.  Some days I absolutely cannot stand it, but then the weight of actually undergoing another revision scares the crap out of me.


----------



## MissOrange

caliRoll said:


> @MissOrange
> For the white raised keloid scarring, I would seriously look into getting cortisone / kenalog / Kenacort injections.   That will work very quickly to flatten the scar much more reliably than a topical gel.  Any dermatologist or plastic surgeon could give you injections.  Do a few small injections, so you can fine tune the results.
> I think you look good as well.  The tip is somewhat lifted, but it may not be worth the risk to undergo a major revision with rib.
> 
> I can't wait to hear your thoughts on your consultation with Dr. Seong.  I've  only focused my research on him for my revision.  I'm in a tough spot as well.  My nose looks wonky, but the thought of ending up worse would be devastating.  Some days I absolutely cannot stand it, but then the weight of actually undergoing another revision scares the crap out of me.


That's a great idea @caliRoll! I am due a 1 year check up on the LL so I should book and ask Miss Mills about a kenalog injection. I know one of her past LL RS patients had scar revision at 1 year so it is also something to consider. @caliRoll have you shown your nose to 10 people for an impartial opinion to cover any blind spots. I have had one friend suggest silicone instead but the rest said leave it. And yes I totally get how you feel when some days you can't bear to see it in a mirror as it doesn't change or improve no matter how many selfies you take vs the enormous anxiety over trusting another ps and the fear of a botched nose much worse than your current at vast financial cost again. I haven't heard of any botched noses at GNG so this is good, but then I am only relying on reviews on pf. I just know that I would absolutely never go to april31.

Yes I shall share my opinions of GNG and Dr Seong when I see him near the end of the month but I think one cannot equate a doctor's bedside manner with his or her clinical skills. And yes @missy_sana you are right which is why it may be hard to get an objective opinion from clinics.

I am still pontificating on zygoma reduction. lol. MVP and JW said I was not a candidate vs tlps, gng and regen will see me. My husband threatens me that I better not mess up my face. lol.


----------



## caliRoll

@MissOrange Please ask to see many pictures of revisions.  I'd love to hear your opinion on how they look.  They have some complex revision cases on their site, which gives me more confidence, but hearing your real world opinion would be great.  Also, scope out the patients in the lobby and see how they look.  

As for opinions, I haven't built up the nerve to have that very awkward conversation with anyone.  And the people around me are not exactly supportive of my decision in the first place, so their comments will almost certainly not be helpful.  I consider myself pretty objective, and I'm realistic enough to know that it was a bad result.  But you are right, I have to get over it and have those tough conversations.

The thing I've found is that the longer you observe a clinic, eventually something bad surfaces.  Just late last year, everyone was talking about April31 and then suddenly opinions on here started to change.  I hate to be cynical, but I'm expecting someone to eventually post something negative about GNG.


----------



## Perceval

caliRoll said:


> The thing I've found is that the longer you observe a clinic, eventually something bad surfaces.  Just late last year, everyone was talking about April31 and then suddenly opinions on here started to change.  I hate to be cynical, but I'm expecting someone to eventually post something negative about GNG.



I'd absolutely hate that, because I plan to get my procedures done at different clinics that have good reputation. Right after I graduate from college.
Just imagine seeing all the positive reviews on these amazing clinics and then as you're ready to go soon after all those years of researching most of them are complete s**t. 
I hope GNG doesn't go down that route, because I plan on going to them for my rhinoplasty. 
There will be some disappointments coming our way, no doubt about it.


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## MissOrange

My friends are telling me I look 18! I am celebrating 25 years of marriage in India before I fly to korea. Pictures taken today at 97 lbs. Have been gaining 0.5lb a day in India! Sunshine makes me look younger! I look like a miss korea! Don't even recognise my face!


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> My friends are telling me I look 18! I am celebrating 25 years of marriage in India before I fly to korea. Pictures taken today at 97 lbs. Have been gaining 0.5lb a day in India! Sunshine makes me look younger! I look like a miss korea! Don't even recognise my face!


omg you look fantastic!


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## MissOrange

loves said:


> omg you look fantastic!


Thanks @loves. The eyelid fg from mvp seems to like the heat and has swelled up nicely! MVP must have used prp fat graft as the lids have lasted 10 months since the april 2017 top up but I shall still have my top up in 2 weeks time as London is freezing and may shrink my fat graft again. Or maybe because in hot India, I have been drinking water around the clock to avoid headaches from dehydration in the heat and we know how fat graft loves water!

In India I have been having oil baths with rose petals and oil massages for the face and body. Maybe dry skin loves oil too for a smooth silky complexion and skin texture! I need to buy bath oils for London!

I have not looked into the plastic surgeons in India but they have to be good too as they created Aishwarya Rai's youth and beauty!

I think the best rejuvenating surgery for a bargain hunter like me has got to be fat graft with top ups to the upper eyelids! Second comes bullhorn lip lift. And both combined are much cheaper than a smas facelift.


----------



## Miloukee

@MissOrange
Congratulations. New here, but like reading your posts, some serious with humor too. 
As with everyone,cute little nose = youth. Remember our babies cute little noses. But lget the allure of tall nose, but ur face looks balanced.
But honestly it is up to you,since u have to see urself everyday.
Me, just recoverying from chin explant andto tighten  skin over jaw n chin area.. Ppl loved my chin even kids,hubby dont notice but me,cant stand it, so out it went.  So l can understand your dilemma. But PS are in the biz to make money so listen to your first resolve. 
Take care, and wish u the best outcomes.
PS love the little beauty advice of long hair, after l had already cut my long hair. LOL


----------



## gazoo

I've read this entire thread (took me 2 days! ), @MissOrange, and have to say your results are incredible! I don't think you were ever ugly, honestly it makes me sad to see you think you were. Your personality is truly the icing on the cake, as your openness with sharing your experiences and knowledge is inspiring to me. FWIW, I think your nose is perfect as it is. I'd never touch it again, just in case things go wrong. I don't think you will easily find a surgeon that will tell you, "NO - don't have more procedures!", as they're in the business of making money. So please don't base that or any decision on their opinions. I don't know you, yet based on the very good photos of multiple angles and different lighting, I don't think there's anything about your nose (or face really) that needs changing. You do look incredibly youthful, freakishly so! Thrilled for you, as you are very gracious and sweet, and deserve to feel good about yourself.

Also wanted to add, if you do the Kenalog shots for your keloid, be careful as too much may then depress the area. I had success with Kenalog shots on my c-section scar that had become a terrible gross worm in thickness. It flattened up completely, but then I wanted more shots, stupidly thinking it would improve even further and now it's a dent. It's not a huge dent, but it IS a dent, and since your scar is on your face I wanted to warn you, just in case. I had a series of shots three separate times, several weeks apart, and the third time is the time that it started to go inwards. Hope this helps! Kenalog shots will definitely smooth it over, but make sure you're dealing with a qualified injector. Good luck in your upcoming trip to SK and thank you for making this thread. It has been a pleasure to read about your journey and experiences.


----------



## catelet

MissOrange said:


> In less than 4 weeks I shall be back at MVP in Korea for lid fat graft top up. Hopefully the last top up needed. Here is my photo from my April 2017 trip. Loving the eyelid fat graft top up. Remember in old age you want small or close to monolid creases as big creases look extremely aging when hollow. When the swelling from fat graft injections goes down, your super young face is revealed. I look super young here and look forward to looking like a teen again shortly. lol.



@MissOrange where exactly do you have the fat inserted to your upper eyelids-- I'm wondering if it's more towards the place above your inner eye area?


----------



## MissOrange

Miloukee said:


> @MissOrange
> Congratulations. New here, but like reading your posts, some serious with humor too.
> As with everyone,cute little nose = youth. Remember our babies cute little noses. But lget the allure of tall nose, but ur face looks balanced.
> But honestly it is up to you,since u have to see urself everyday.
> Me, just recoverying from chin explant andto tighten  skin over jaw n chin area.. Ppl loved my chin even kids,hubby dont notice but me,cant stand it, so out it went.  So l can understand your dilemma. But PS are in the biz to make money so listen to your first resolve.
> Take care, and wish u the best outcomes.
> PS love the little beauty advice of long hair, after l had already cut my long hair. LOL


Hi @Miloukee, just now catching up on posts. Your sense of humour shines through too! lol. Thanks for another vote to keep the tiny nose. I was on a train from delhi to agra today and all I did was look at photos of my postop big nose vs my midget nose. lol. Then when my phone battery died I stared at my nose in the train window reflection. With just 12 days to go and consultations booked for everything from facelift, to revision rhino would consider silicone to zygoma reduction, my head is literally spinning big time! My husband's words are ringing in my ears...'don't mess up your face as I have to live with it!' lol.

Oh what a trial to have paid for a chin implant and then to have it explanted but at least you are happy now with your face. I get when some ladies get a bigger nose and then regret it, or get a smaller nose and then regret it. It is so hard to bring back an old nose as so much gets chopped and changed. I keep thinking the left side of my nose is too short and stubby looking vs the right side looks fine. I looked at all the lovely Indian ladies on the train and stared at their long noses! I think I am obsessed with long noses but what if I get it done and then realise it doesn't match a shortened philtrum and everted lips? I wonder if gng does morphs?

You ladies will be the first to find out what I next end up doing in Korea! Help me! lol.


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> I've read this entire thread (took me 2 days! ), @MissOrange, and have to say your results are incredible! I don't think you were ever ugly, honestly it makes me sad to see you think you were. Your personality is truly the icing on the cake, as your openness with sharing your experiences and knowledge is inspiring to me. FWIW, I think your nose is perfect as it is. I'd never touch it again, just in case things go wrong. I don't think you will easily find a surgeon that will tell you, "NO - don't have more procedures!", as they're in the business of making money. So please don't base that or any decision on their opinions. I don't know you, yet based on the very good photos of multiple angles and different lighting, I don't think there's anything about your nose (or face really) that needs changing. You do look incredibly youthful, freakishly so! Thrilled for you, as you are very gracious and sweet, and deserve to feel good about yourself.
> 
> Also wanted to add, if you do the Kenalog shots for your keloid, be careful as too much may then depress the area. I had success with Kenalog shots on my c-section scar that had become a terrible gross worm in thickness. It flattened up completely, but then I wanted more shots, stupidly thinking it would improve even further and now it's a dent. It's not a huge dent, but it IS a dent, and since your scar is on your face I wanted to warn you, just in case. I had a series of shots three separate times, several weeks apart, and the third time is the time that it started to go inwards. Hope this helps! Kenalog shots will definitely smooth it over, but make sure you're dealing with a qualified injector. Good luck in your upcoming trip to SK and thank you for making this thread. It has been a pleasure to read about your journey and experiences.


Hi @gazoo, wow 2 days to read all my plastic surgery musings, adventures and funny photos! lol. Well it has been one enlightening journey and am still learning as I go along. Another vote for kenalog injection. Okay sounds like I should book to see Mills. Will do when I get back to London shortly. Excited to hear it flattened your c-section scar. Now that would have been a big long scar! Sorry to hear of the dent. So too much of a good thing, goes the other way. Gotcha! And yet another vote to leave my nose alone. And here I was thinking 11 million for rib rhino will be way too much but maybe 5 million for revision with silicone may be affordable and silicone never shrinks like rib. But what if a long nose makes me look older! Aargh! Noses are such impossible things to get right!


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange where exactly do you have the fat inserted to your upper eyelids-- I'm wondering if it's more towards the place above your inner eye area?


Hi @catelet, Dr Seo draws with a purple marker along the horizontal hollow in my upper eyelids and then he injects the fat through injections hidden in the outer eyebrows. The injection sites are closed with a simple suture and covered with a steristrip. I am naughty and cut out my own suture at 36-48 hours once the synthetic suture starts to itch and the wound has closed. I have eczema which makes my surgical incisions close and heal super fast. That or I am too impatient to wait 5-7 days for stitch removal. Actually for the face it should not be longer than 3-5 days in my opinion.


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## MissOrange

Here is a photo I was directed to on a before and after rhino at GNG for a short nose. An amazing result! If anyone is suffering silently from a super short nose, then it may be worth considering seeing GNG. I shall keep you posted about my GNG consult. But shall bear in mind that a clinic rarely turns away a paying client.


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## krod2017

MissOrange said:


> My friends are telling me I look 18! I am celebrating 25 years of marriage in India before I fly to korea. Pictures taken today at 97 lbs. Have been gaining 0.5lb a day in India! Sunshine makes me look younger! I look like a miss korea! Don't even recognise my face!


You look gorgeous omg


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## MissOrange

I just made another revelation. Fat grafting can be permanent after all and the key is to maintain the exact same weight you were when you got your fg and top ups. This morning I weighed 98 lbs in India which is closest to the 99 lbs I always weigh for my fat graft top ups. It means that 1 full face fat graft with 2 top ups is enough to last. When I went down to 95 lbs I noticed my lower face start to sag and my lids started to hollow.

Here is my morning photo in the pool at 98 lbs. The pool man asked if it was the first time in India for my daddy too! Lol. I don't blame him as I look super young.


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## MissOrange

Now that I can pass for a teenager, I decided to fish out my US high school graduation photo from when I was 17. Gasp! I feel totally sorry for ugly me back then. No dates, not invited to prom, never smiled, class valedictorian, no best friend, and poor as a church mouse. Couldn't have been more sad and miserable back then. I remember looking at the tall, beautiful, leggy, athletic American girls in my high school thinking why wasn't I born tall, blonde and beautiful? So here is a collage of me in my 50s vs when I was 17, the serious girl who never smiled. I have not tried a facelift yet as baby fat graft lifts and rejuvenates like magic and costs a fraction of the price. I had my last lower face fat graft top up in April last year (you need 3 full face fgs in total and that's it). I don't think I need any more to the face as too much of a good thing might backfire, well, except for one last top up to the eyelids in 2 weeks time as I prefer the overfilled lid look. If I can transform, any girl can! I promised myself to try dyeing my hair blonde at age 60. Better late than never! lol. And yes, I plan to look this young when I reach my 60s and 70s before my family history of strokes does me in by age 84. lol. I can just see it now as the paramedics argue that I can't be the 84 year old lady they were called to collect as I look 16. lol. Ms Benjamin Button in the flesh! lol


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## caliRoll

You look good, and most importantly, natural.  I'd love to hear your first hand account of GNG hospital, but personally I would just only consult.  You really don't need any more surgery.  With surgery,  there is definitely a diminishing returns.


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## MissOrange

MissOrange said:


> Hi @gazoo, wow 2 days to read all my plastic surgery musings, adventures and funny photos! lol. Well it has been one enlightening journey and am still learning as I go along. Another vote for kenalog injection. Okay sounds like I should book to see Mills. Will do when I get back to London shortly. Excited to hear it flattened your c-section scar. Now that would have been a big long scar! Sorry to hear of the dent. So too much of a good thing, goes the other way. Gotcha! And yet another vote to leave my nose alone. And here I was thinking 11 million for rib rhino will be way too much but maybe 5 million for revision with silicone may be affordable and silicone never shrinks like rib. But what if a long nose makes me look older! Aargh! Noses are such impossible things to get right!


Hi @gazoo,

I have made an appointment to see Miss Mills on Wednesday for kenalog injection to the scar! Thank you and others for recommending this. I truly appreciate this! We are all helping each other and I must admit I never thought of kenalog!


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## MissOrange

caliRoll said:


> You look good, and most importantly, natural.  I'd love to hear your first hand account of GNG hospital, but personally I would just only consult.  You really don't need any more surgery.  With surgery,  there is definitely a diminishing returns.


Thank you @caliRoll; your kind words of advice will be ringing in my ears if I reach for my credit card! lol. 8 days to go until I fly to the arctic pole! lol. It is 4C to -4C in korea! My friend suggested thermal underwear and a furry face mask? Less is more and with surgery, diminishing returns. Really good and wise advice to a potential ps addict! lol.

My weight today has dropped back down to 96 lbs and guess what, my lower face looks saggy but I don't want to pig out to go up to 99 as I like my matchstick model legs! I am going to try a mini facelift. I am approaching 52 and haven't tried facelift yet and some girls younger than I am have already had a few!

As I have heard at least 10 no's for touching my nose, I am now 99% against revision rhino. I have been studying long noses and have come to the conclusion that it would make me look prettier but also older, ie 30s. I would rather look 20s and cute vs 30s and beautiful. It is good for as many people as possible to say no to anyone who you think is planning on surgery they do not need as rightly said, clinics may have agendas.


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## MissOrange

To see what a lower facelift would look like, take a selfie lying flat. As you can see I do not need v line surgery as a lift would pull up the saggy skin to reveal a natural v line. The only downside is it would accentuate my cheekbones and make me think I need zygoma reduction on the right side. Eyelid fat graft top up will make my eyes look like a teenager...5th and final lid fat graft!


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## onlydbest

Catching up ... so many pages already.  Yeah, no don't need zygoma or vline since there isn't much difference with the lying flat selfie. 
I like the brows now , kinda different shape, did you do microblading?

I'd like to see this philtrum when smiling. How about a smiling photo?


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## MissOrange

onlydbest said:


> Catching up ... so many pages already.  Yeah, no don't need zygoma or vline since there isn't much difference with the lying flat selfie.
> I like the brows now , kinda different shape, did you do microblading?
> 
> I'd like to see this philtrum when smiling. How about a smiling photo?


Hi @onlydbest, my tattooed eyebrows are fading.  I pay tracie giles in London £200 a year for top up. I colour them in with eyebrow pencil.

Here is a rare photo of me trying to smile. My daughter tells me I have to practice! I don't like my smile as it wrinkles my nose and eyes. Catwalk models don't smile. I think the face looks better non smiling. Lol. Remember only get a professional hair trim once a year! Lol. I trim my own bangs when they get in my eyes. Hair thins after menopause and you need as much hair beforehand.


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## sweetmalbec

Hey! I’m also looking to have fat injected into my under eye area to help my dark circles but i’ve read that injecting fat around the eyes or face in general runs the risk of blindness? Have you come across or discussed this with your doctor? :o


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## MissOrange

sweetmalbec said:


> Hey! I’m also looking to have fat injected into my under eye area to help my dark circles but i’ve read that injecting fat around the eyes or face in general runs the risk of blindness? Have you come across or discussed this with your doctor? :o


Hi @sweetmalbec yes fat injections around the eyes can be dangerous which is why not all will do lid or under eye injection. Dark circles may be due to dehydration or lack of sleep. I trust Dr Seo with my eyelids and hoping this will be my last top up as it is at 85-90% hydrated.


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## sweetmalbec

oh dear!! i'm a chicken so im really scared haha i need to think about this more. you're so brave!

my dark circles are genetic- my mum has them too. i drink a lot of water everyday and even on days where i sleep a lot they dont go away sigh


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## jsorchid

@MissOrange I finally finished your posts. I am Korean and we are the same age. I really enjoyed your frank and openness to this whole ps and your ability to share your experiences. I’ve only had few Botox injections but nothing else. This year I can finally feel myself aging after loosing my weight down to very similar to your weight. Not on purpose but stress I think. I am also 5’1”. My jaw lines are quite large but I never really minded them. I am getting serious bags under my eyes, especially my right one. I am planning on a month trip starting middle of October to SK, Do you have any advice for bags? I am considering fg on my forehead and temples as you recommend. I would love to do face lift but I think I should fix my eyes first. Oh, you are tempting me to bull horn lift... but appears I should do that in other places? thank you for your posts...


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## MissOrange

jsorchid said:


> @MissOrange I finally finished your posts. I am Korean and we are the same age. I really enjoyed your frank and openness to this whole ps and your ability to share your experiences. I’ve only had few Botox injections but nothing else. This year I can finally feel myself aging after loosing my weight down to very similar to your weight. Not on purpose but stress I think. I am also 5’1”. My jaw lines are quite large but I never really minded them. I am getting serious bags under my eyes, especially my right one. I am planning on a month trip starting middle of October to SK, Do you have any advice for bags? I am considering fg on my forehead and temples as you recommend. I would love to do face lift but I think I should fix my eyes first. Oh, you are tempting me to bull horn lift... but appears I should do that in other places? thank you for your posts...


Hi @jsorchid, welcome to PF! I was just practicing on the papago app how to say I am 51 years old in korean for my upcoming trip to Korea. lol. Absolutely devastated yassgo has stopped doing sim cards! Will be without wifi save for the hotel, airport and duty free floor of Lotte.

Wow you only had botox until now! You must have aged at a snail's pace. I had lower blepharoplasty for eye bags in the uk in my early 40s so yes time for you to get them excised. Really easy operation as it is literally make a small incision and pull out the chicken like yellow fat globules. Ok too graphic but I would rate that as a 1/10 in surgery difficulty. October is low season so you should get good prices. If you speak Korean, you might be able to blag local prices. Yes fat graft to the forehead and temples are a must after age 40.

I have been doing thorough research on whether I need revision rhino or whether I need zygoma reduction to get a CD sized face, ie 12 cms and not 15 cms across. I think a lot of ladies may be asking themselves can I get zygoma reduction to have a smaller face. Well it seems that if your zygoma sticks out to the side beyond your temples then fine but if not, then no.

I found a youtuber who was refused zygoma reduction by Dr Choi at GNG, so I used this as a guide to compare to my face and based on her refusal, it means I also do not need zygoma reduction. That saved 6 million won. It looks like I need my skin yanking up to pull up my droopy cheeks as hers sits higher lol. Mini facelift yes, zygoma no. She had rib revision rhino with Dr Seong and a slight v line with Dr Choi because of the proximity of her nerve. Based on her nose vs mine, I also do not need revision rib rhino! Phew just saved 11 million won. I am a penny pincher and worrier over surgery complications, so anxiety instantly cured. This is a good idea to find a former patient who looks a little like you who you can then compare your face to, to see if you need anything doing. I noticed that some patients get fat graft with zygoma and v line so you don't see any sunken cheeks postop. Perhaps if you are getting zygoma and v line, you may need to consider full face fat graft to fill the loose empty skin or facelift to excise and tighten. PS I know what you are thinking! My chin is much smaller than hers because I paid to have it shaved. And no, I will not put a chin implant in as that would reverse what my chin surgery achieved. LOL.

As for bullhorn, look at my Miss Mills in London, Deesse in Korea and Osuch in Warsaw who is the cheapest but has a 4 month wait list for bullhorn lip lift. I can only vouch for Mills as I haven't been to deesse or to Osuch but worth looking into.


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## MissOrange

Now I am excited to get a mini facelift shortly! Here I am at 98 lbs at a 45 degree incline. Only catch is my skin is not lax enough for smas so a mini facelift or thread may be temporary. Shame I can't walk around with my face at a 45 degree incline. Lol.


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## jsorchid

MissOrange said:


> Now I am excited to get a mini facelift shortly! Here I am at 98 lbs at a 45 degree incline. Only catch is my skin is not lax enough for smas so a mini facelift or thread may be temporary. Shame I can't walk around with my face at a 45 degree incline. Lol.


How is mini facelift performed? I read about the smac. My skin is also very thick which helped keep fine wrinkles away but I have hollows that I call dents on the both sides of my cheeks... and those bags! Since losing weight, I am seriously considering breast augmentation.  They are so deflated, did you say you had yours done? My chest is pretty boney.


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## MissOrange

jsorchid said:


> How is mini facelift performed? I read about the smac. My skin is also very thick which helped keep fine wrinkles away but I have hollows that I call dents on the both sides of my cheeks... and those bags! Since losing weight, I am seriously considering breast augmentation.  They are so deflated, did you say you had yours done? My chest is pretty boney.


A mini facelift is just a lift in the lower face either by cutting, threadlift or acculift. Yes I had BA x 5! My first bf said my breasts could be larger. I was a 34b. I couldn't afford ps so I waited until after marriage and 3 children. I was an unknowing Uk guinea pig for all the failed implants that came out and got EU approval but not FDA. I was a naive patient who just trusted the choices of the UK plastic surgeons and hospitals they used who supplied the implants. 1. Trilucent implant fitted 2. Trilucent ruptured and leaked, got banned so removed by the NHS. 3. Hydrogel placed privately. 4. Hydrogel leaked and then got banned in the uk so removed and replaced by PIP. 5. PIP got banned so replaced with my first US FDA implant allergan natrelle. Knock on wood this one lasts at least 10 years! Thankfully back in my 30s, BA was a lot cheaper than it is now and my second surgeon replaced each for just the cost of the implant and the hospital fee. My advice is to make sure the implant you choose is US FDA approved as they may use heavy marketing to disguise the fact they are not approved by the US FDA.

By the way @jsorchid sorry to hear stress caused you to lose weight. Hope the stress gets resolved as stress causes inflammation in the body cells too. How much do you weigh now?


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## MissOrange

Today's topic is a summary collage of my 2 year plastic surgery journey to magical rejuvenation that began with rib rhinoplasty and chin shaving in February 2016 and is coming to a point of diminishing returns if I continue. If you are told you need 2 jaw surgery for 17 million won, STOP, hammer time! lol. And if the total of what they think you need totals to over 30 million won, head for the EXIT sign! Jump out of that aeroplane! lol. To think I could have been sucked into this in 2013 completely naive to the history of ID hospital! Good thing I waited until I found PF, Rebecca smittenkitten's blog on mvp, realself on Miss Mills, etc.

If your before looks like mine, then copy my journey if you think you too do not need 2-jaw surgery. Chin shaving sorted my long mandible, rhino added rib to the bridge and turned the tip up (I have been massaging and pulling the skin of my nose down daily to reduce shortness of the left side). Dr Choi at MVP took out the filler lumps in my upper lip to flatten, Dr Mills in London did bullhorn liplift that everted my lip and shortened the philtrum, Dr Seo gave me huge doll eyes with thin creases and lid fat graft to reverse aging and DA gave me full face fgs to inflate a saggy bony face.


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## jsorchid

MissOrange said:


> A mini facelift is just a lift in the lower face either by cutting, threadlift or acculift. Yes I had BA x 5! My first bf said my breasts could be larger. I was a 34b. I couldn't afford ps so I waited until after marriage and 3 children. I was an unknowing Uk guinea pig for all the failed implants that came out and got EU approval but not FDA. I was a naive patient who just trusted the choices of the UK plastic surgeons and hospitals they used who supplied the implants. 1. Trilucent implant fitted 2. Trilucent ruptured and leaked, got banned so removed by the NHS. 3. Hydrogel placed privately. 4. Hydrogel leaked and then got banned in the uk so removed and replaced by PIP. 5. PIP got banned so replaced with my first US FDA implant allergan natrelle. Knock on wood this one lasts at least 10 years! Thankfully back in my 30s, BA was a lot cheaper than it is now and my second surgeon replaced each for just the cost of the implant and the hospital fee. My advice is to make sure the implant you choose is US FDA approved as they may use heavy marketing to disguise the fact they are not approved by the US FDA.
> 
> By the way @jsorchid sorry to hear stress caused you to lose weight. Hope the stress gets resolved as stress causes inflammation in the body cells too. How much do you weigh now?


I am terrible at eating 3 meals a day. I have been eating once or twice a day since in my early 20’s. I eat pretty much everything. I am a nurse which means I walk 3-4 miles just working. I do yoga sporadically...right now I can go down to 93 but it seems I am maintaining at 95 if force myself to eat more. My target weight is 97-100. If I can figure out messaging, I  would like to send you my pics, so you can tell me what things you’ll do.


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## Perceval

sweetmalbec said:


> my dark circles are genetic- my mum has them too. i drink a lot of water everyday and even on days where i sleep a lot they dont go away sigh


Maybe it isn't dark circles then? It could be a hallowness in your eyes that creates that look. I too thought I had dark circles (did everything I could to get rid of them) until my local plastic surgeon told me that wasn't the case.


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## MissOrange

Hi @jsorchid, wow 93 lbs is too little as this means your face may look gaunt, older and bony. I agree and think 97 lbs is a good weight for the face at our height. If I could get to 99 lbs, my face would fill out more but I have learned my fat graft does not like a weight over 100 lbs as it makes my face balloon so 99 lbs is too close to 100 and potential balloon face. I totally understand how your weight can drop walking up and down in hospitals! People don't realise how much walking exercise they are doing on their feet working/walking for hours and yes it can easily be 3-4 miles or even more! One burns 260 calories an hour walking so if you walk 4 hours a day that's over 1000 calories burned off and if you eat less than 1000 calories, you end up shrinking! If you walk 8 hours a day you have to make an extra effort to eat more. Think Stephen King's horror film Thin. That was scary! And work stress and lack of sleep also contribute to weight loss. I find it odd how some people react to stress by overeating and gaining weight, while others respond by losing one's appetite and losing weight.

I have sent you a private message ie under conversation. You click someone's name in their profile, then click start a conversation. Yes happy to give my opinion as to what you may do based on your picture.

For ladies researching lip lift, someone has also suggested golden view in korea. http://goldenviewps.blogspot.com.au/


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## MissOrange

When you reach your 40s or 50s do not have a photo taken next to your 21 year old! You cannot compete with youth and will only look and feel worse! Also before considering bone surgery try full face fat graft. Here is a photo of my eldest daughter turning 21 and standing 5'8". When I prayed to God asking why I was born short with a big face, He answered my prayers by giving me a daughter who is tall with a small face! lol. What a circumstance to age and grow uglier as you watch your daughters grow taller and more beautiful! lol. As you can see we can't compete but at least we can try with the help of ps. I have deleted the photos of me standing next to her, no need to see Beauty and the Beast. lol. Here is a photo of me 2.5 years ago with an old, hollow, bony face as stress, menopause and a fall in oestrogen took away the fat in my face! Hollow eyelids, hollow temples, droopy nose, empty lower face, thin lips, long philtrum, etc. an ugly old mess! A miracle a face that ugly could transform! 100 ccs of fat filled it up again in 3 fat grafts. I am sharing my old ugly photos to encourage others who want to transform. It can be done at any age and is never too late even if you have to wait to dip into your pension. No one at age 40, 50 or 60 wants to look old, believe me it comes as a shock when you wake up and see the face of an old lady looking back at you! If that does happen, sell off all your designer clothes and bags and book plastic surgery asap!


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## MissOrange

And here I am in the kitchen looking 20s eating ramen like a kid at age 51 with no makeup. Seeing is believing. Go for it! Transform!


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## soyeon

@MissOrange you are such an inspiration! I am currently in my research phase for my plastic surgery journey. I have not gotten any surgeries done before so I’m quite lost. I have consulted a number of plastic surgery clinics and I am getting even more confused about what procedures I should get, the sequence in procedures etc. I still want to look natural but improved and want to choose the least invasive route to look my best. I was initially looking into zygoma reduction as well but dr choi from GNG mentioned that it wouldn’t make a big difference for my facial structure. He recommended chin fat graft or chin implant instead. I’m also looking into rhinoplasty and liposuction.


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## MissOrange

soyeon said:


> @MissOrange you are such an inspiration! I am currently in my research phase for my plastic surgery journey. I have not gotten any surgeries done before so I’m quite lost. I have consulted a number of plastic surgery clinics and I am getting even more confused about what procedures I should get, the sequence in procedures etc. I still want to look natural but improved and want to choose the least invasive route to look my best. I was initially looking into zygoma reduction as well but dr choi from GNG mentioned that it wouldn’t make a big difference for my facial structure. He recommended chin fat graft or chin implant instead. I’m also looking into rhinoplasty and liposuction.


Hi @soyeon, thank you. Yes, research is very good as you want to get it right the first time and not pay for revisions. I am not surprised Dr Choi at gng turned you down for zygoma as he seems reluctant to do zygoma unless it is really warranted. This is good news as that means he will say no, if you do not need it. If you want to send me your photos in a private message, I am happy to give my two cents too. The more opinions you get, the better to cover your blind spots. The least invasive anti aging method is use of botox and dermal fillers. This kept me going in my 40s and when I suddenly looked a lot older, it meant it was time for botox or fillers again. Rhinoplasty should only be done if you truly need it as the outcome can be unpredictable even in the best of hands. The more I have researched rhino, the more I have become aware of people who have had 4-8 rhinoplasties and spent over $50k just on rhino revisions. Therefore, only embark on this if you have a defective nose. Contouring makeup can make any nose look good. Liposuction is straightforward but if you do not change your diet and lifestyle, the fat reappears in other places like the back and sides.


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## MissOrange

I am trying to work out how much 100 ccs of fat in my face is and no way that is 1000 ml or a litre or 1 kg or 2.2 lbs of fat injected into my face over 3 sessions! Wow. I think it might have been cheaper to put on 2.2 lbs. At 97.2 lbs my face is sagging as I try to get back up to 99 lbs the weight I was when I got fat graft.


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## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> I am trying to work out how much 100 ccs of fat in my face is and no way that is 1000 ml or a litre or 1 kg or 2.2 lbs of fat injected into my face over 3 sessions! Wow. I think it might have been cheaper to put on 2.2 lbs. At 97.2 lbs my face is sagging as I try to get back up to 99 lbs the weight I was when I got fat graft.



True, its cheaper to put on weight naturally, but our bodies just don't deposit the fat in the specific places where we want them.  I've put on the extra pounds of weight, but it just goes straight to my belly, thighs, arms, and lower cheeks/buccal fat.  If only all that comfort eating would go into my sunken mid-facial cheeks!  Would also be nice if my body could deposit fat more intelligently to give me a cheap brazilian butt lift and plumper breasts!

I wonder if fat grafting means injecting my face with my thigh fat, that were originally as result of pigging out on crisps, chocolate, McDonalds and chinese fatty pork?  Must be more than a pound of lard and cooking oil inside that injected baby face!  Reminds me of the Korean star (Hang Mioku) who disfigured her face after doing just that!


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## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> True, its cheaper to put on weight naturally, but our bodies just don't deposit the fat in the specific places where we want them.  I've put on the extra pounds of weight, but it just goes straight to my belly, thighs, arms, and lower cheeks/buccal fat.  If only all that comfort eating would go into my sunken mid-facial cheeks!  Would also be nice if my body could deposit fat more intelligently to give me a cheap brazilian butt lift and plumper breasts!
> 
> I wonder if fat grafting means injecting my face with my thigh fat, that were originally as result of pigging out on crisps, chocolate, McDonalds and chinese fatty pork?  Must be more than a pound of lard and cooking oil inside that injected baby face!  Reminds me of the Korean star (Hang Mioku) who disfigured her face after doing just that!


You are a funny writer @missy_sana! You made me laugh. Good point. We have no control over where an extra 2 lbs ends up! lol. Thigh fat cells in the face are extremely sensitive to weight gain and weight loss as I have found out. I am forever on the scales checking my weight to avoid balloon face at 100-102 lbs  vs sagging face at 95-96 lbs. Facial fat graft takes discipline to keep the face looking normal after it goes in! lol. Poor Hang injecting cooking oil?! There is no logic to that.

I just watched Plastic Surgery Capital of the World on bbc iplayer today. It was aired yesterday and the interviewer had a consult with Dr Oh at Regen! He said her face was in balance and she did not need anything, completely ignoring her short contracted nose from burns? Then Dr Kim at BK saw her and said he could improve her nose some and showed morphs. I think morphs are a powerful selling tool!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on revision rhinoplasty. I feel I need to post this as I have come across beautiful ladies in their early 30s facing a 4th or even 5th rhinoplasty. How can they afford $50k or £50k and climbing as a revision rhino with silicone or rib is imperfect, so another revision will be needed and if you are 30s, there is your 40s, 50s etc. so you may end up with a 7th or 8th or no nose from necrosis and so much scar contraction.

The problem with reshaping rhinoplasty is that there is no perfect implant, silicone can get infected and extrude vs cadaver rib even irradiated has a high reabsorption/shrinkage rate vs autologous rib reabsorbs and warps over time no matter what a plastic surgeon says to you at consultation to get you to fork over £10k! This means that you ONLY get a primary rhinoplasty if it is simple rasping down a hump or tip rhino that does not require a graft or if you have a deformed nose from birth or a traffic accident or a fight and you only get revision if it is functional, ie you cannot breathe from a collapsed nose, your silicone has extruded or become infected with redness and pus, or your rib has shrunk so your nose look totally piggy and like a MJ nose, ie no nose.

If you are getting a 4th or 5th to reshape your nose, ie to. create a bigger nose, to create a smaller nose, to create a ski slope, to add height, to lengthen, then STOP! Hammer time! NO! Your nose is full of scar tissue. It is not a virgin nose. That means you are at high risk of a complication like deviation, asymmetry, collapse of a wing, uneven nostrils, contraction etc. You may never be able to achieve a perfect nose again and instead your nose may get shorter and more contracted with scar tissue with each subsequent rhino. You must accept your current stable nose and only pursue a 4th, 5th or 6th, for the reasons in the middle paragraph. Had I known that rib reabsorbs and warps, I would never have had rib rhino and would have left my nose alone as my first tip rhinoplasty was fine for 17 years and had involved no implant or graft. I should have accepted this instead of try to create a bigger nose with rib.


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## MissOrange

People who know me, know that I hate being ripped off! I scream injustice!!! So when one friend got quoted 10 million just for v line at gng and another got quoted 5.5 million + tax or 6 million at gng both within the past week, I cannot keep quiet. Gng have a sale on v line for 6 million this month. Last month they had a 7 million sale on v line or 10 million with rhino.  And another friend got zygoma and v line for 9-10 million total at gng last year. If you are getting v line at gng and got quoted more, show them this photo and ask they honour their Feb sale price and not rip off foreigners! Remember you get more off if they use your photos. Do not pay 10 million just for v line!!! Remember we are approaching low season so prices should be low!


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## MissOrange

On a roll today as I am super excited to fly to korea TOMORROW! I have finished watching all 18 episodes of Another Miss Oh k drama and felt sorry for the actress playing a 44 yo single lady who can't find a husband and how a younger male actor couldn't even kiss her as she looked so old. Here is her photo. As you can see by now if you have read all my posts, she needs.....eyelid fat grafting! Her nose tip has drooped with age which happens to all of us over time as has happened to me in my 30s and could benefit from tip rhinoplasty with no silicone or graft. And her chin is a bit too long, sharp and strong like mine used to be so could be reshaped, reduced and softened. You can be an expert too by now in figuring out how to reverse aging! Now could someone pass on the tips to this famous actress!


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> On a roll today as I am super excited to fly to korea TOMORROW! I have finished watching all 18 episodes of Another Miss Oh k drama and felt sorry for the actress playing a 44 yo single lady who can't find a husband and how a younger male actor couldn't even kiss her as she looked so old. Here is her photo. As you can see by now if you have read all my posts, she needs.....eyelid fat grafting! Her nose tip has drooped with age which happens to all of us over time as has happened to me in my 30s and could benefit from tip rhinoplasty with no silicone or graft. And her chin is a bit too long, sharp and strong like mine used to be so could be reshaped, reduced and softened. You can be an expert too by now in figuring out how to reverse aging! Now could someone pass on the tips to this famous actress!


Don't forger full face fat grafting. She looks old because there is no youthful fat left or she never had any!


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Don't forger full face fat grafting. She looks old because there is no youthful fat left or she never had any!


The golden ratio of jawline according to Simon O the Kardashian's favourite doctor.Simon


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> The golden ratio of jawline according to Simon O the Kardashian's favourite doctor.Simon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3978151


Thank you @SheOnlyLooks25! Wow this is good to know about jawline angles. Also great to find out who is the Kardashian's plastic surgeon! I bet he is very expensive. I saw Dr Jan Stanek's 60 year old nurse a few days ago and she was 4 months post smas facelift. I was like where are the scars? He hid them inside her ear, not in front or behind but actually inside, so invisible! And her face looked natural and youthful. She looked 25 years younger! Mr Stanek did my tip rhinoplasty, BA and big crease des decades ago but his prices are now too high for me that I have been flying to Korea instead. If money is no object, he is the best plastic surgeon in London in my opinion with over 40 years of plastic surgery experience and is super smart, ie Oxford med school grad!


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Thank you @SheOnlyLooks25! Wow this is good to know about jawline angles. Also great to find out who is the Kardashian's plastic surgeon! I bet he is very expensive. I saw Dr Jan Stanek's 60 year old nurse a few days ago and she was 4 months post smas facelift. I was like where are the scars? He hid them inside her ear, not in front or behind but actually inside, so invisible! And her face looked natural and youthful. She looked 25 years younger! Mr Stanek did my tip rhinoplasty, BA and big crease des decades ago but his prices are now too high for me that I have been flying to Korea instead. If money is no object, he is the best plastic surgeon in London in my opinion with over 40 years of plastic surgery experience and is super smart, ie Oxford med school grad!


Hmmm, interesting because 8 out of 10 voted for Dominic Bray in London and in fact Jan Stanek had some bad reviews both for his  bedside manner and horrible response when his surgery needed revision.
And an older article on Dr Jan.
www.telegraph.co.uk › News › UK News
 Jul 18, 2008 - The internationally acclaimed cosmetic *surgeon Jan Stanek* has agreed to a six-figure compensation payout to a face lift patient who claims she suffered a devastating stroke whilst under his knife.


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Hmmm, interesting because 8 out of 10 voted for Dominic Bray in London and in fact Jan Stanek had some bad reviews both for his  bedside manner and horrible response when his surgery needed revision.
> And an older article on Dr Jan.
> www.telegraph.co.uk › News › UK News
> Jul 18, 2008 - The internationally acclaimed cosmetic *surgeon Jan Stanek* has agreed to a six-figure compensation payout to a face lift patient who claims she suffered a devastating stroke whilst under his knife.


Yes that was a sad case. The patient was obese, a heavy smoker and had hypertension so she was not a suitable surgical candidate for a facelift. The anaesthetist was also sued as he should have refused to put her under GA. Interestingly the article says a news reader also sued as her face had persistent swelling post laser treatment. Now I am getting worried as I am getting a facelift tomorrow! I will not get thread lift as after research it seems that the ones the US FDA approved have now been withdrawn and the only one left with fda approval is a pds thread which is a dissolvable one after 6 months. PDS was used in my nose to replace the permanent sutures. PDS is the longest lasting dissolvable suture. But I have to bear in mind the possibility of miscommunication in the translation so too risky to go for thread.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Yes that was a sad case. The patient was obese, a heavy smoker and had hypertension so she was not a suitable surgical candidate for a facelift. The anaesthetist was also sued as he should have refused to put her under GA. Interestingly the article says a news reader also sued as her face had persistent swelling post laser treatment. Now I am getting worried as I am getting a facelift tomorrow! I will not get thread lift as after research it seems that the ones the US FDA approved have now been withdrawn and the only one left with fda approval is a pds thread which is a dissolvable one after 6 months. PDS was used in my nose to replace the permanent sutures. PDS is the longest lasting dissolvable suture. But I have to bear in mind the possibility of miscommunication in the translation so too risky to go for thread.


Who is doing your fl? Are you getting MACS or ?


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## jsorchid

Good luck MissOrange!


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## MissOrange

It's 11 pm in Seoul and what a day I had! My friend suggested I look into asps, apgujeong something plastic surgery, famous for facelifts, so I literally walked in as it was across the road out of exit 3 of Apgujeong station. The receptionist looked up and I said could I have a consult for a facelift. She kept looking around her for a hidden camera as she must have thought I was nuts asking for a facelift looking in my late 20s. She suggested I sit down as she got a consultant. The English speaking consultant then looked at my face and said, "you look too good for a smas facelift." That warmed the cockles of my heart. I left and headed for MVP.

I paid for eyelid fat graft top up as by now starved and dehydated for surgery, my lids looked hollow enough to get a top up, but then Dr Seo suggested I get full face fat graft top up! I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was a naughty girl being 2 lbs underweight from when I last saw him in April 2017! So there I was at 96.8 lbs needing full face fg as I had not gained back up to 99 lbs in time. I thought to myself, wow I now get to see how Dr Seo does full face fat graft as I had only had 3 experiences at the hands of Dr Kim at DAPRS. I was a bit apprehensive as visions of Frankenstein face came to mind and I was trying to figure out how not to look at my face after the op. I also got ultherapy lift which is a noninvasive lower facelift so no invasive threads or cutting. Apparently there is a chart with skin types and mine was type 1 thin and elastic so only qualified for ultherapy and not thread or smas.

I awoke to a face full of tape like a mummy. From what I could see peeking in between the tapes, was skin looking full and not monster face. Phew! And my thighs were wrapped in compression bandages so the bruising was much less than at DA. I was given a week's supply of amoxicillin, antacid and paracetamol and the usual pumpkin juices and porridge. I am due to go back tomorrow at 11 am for the unveiling of the mummy. lol. But knowing me, when it is light in the morning I shall carefully peel away the tapes one by one for my reveal! I then have to rush to regen to ask if I am a candidate for zygoma or v line. I know right, I don't need it so hoping this is reaffirmed by Dr Oh at Regen. Then I meet up my friend at GNG as she goes under for v line after tough negotiations for a fair price while I ask Seong about my nose.


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## Perceval

I just want to say how thankful I am for this wonderful thread! It's so informative, especially on the rhinoplasty and fat grafting (which are two procedures I'm looking to get in the near future). By the way, I'm so glad that the second top up is going well so far for you! You look amazing in those pictures!

I have a question though, it's one that I've been asking and I haven't been getting any answers to (which is probably because no one really knows). I don't expect it to be answered.

So, my mom got her rhinoplasty done when she was younger. She had her nose shaved down. I told her that I didn't like the idea of implants or rib cartilage for rhinoplasty and then asked her if she had use any of those. She told me that she didn't and she doesn't think it's required, but I need other opinions on this.

Her nose still looks amazing to this day for someone that's getting into their late 40s.


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## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> It's 11 pm in Seoul and what a day I had! My friend suggested I look into asps, apgujeong something plastic surgery, famous for facelifts, so I literally walked in as it was across the road out of exit 3 of Apgujeong station. The receptionist looked up and I said could I have a consult for a facelift. She kept looking around her for a hidden camera as she must have thought I was nuts asking for a facelift looking in my late 20s. She suggested I sit down as she got a consultant. The English speaking consultant then looked at my face and said, "you look too good for a smas facelift." That warmed the cockles of my heart. I left and headed for MVP.
> 
> I paid for eyelid fat graft top up as by now starved and dehydated for surgery, my lids looked hollow enough to get a top up, but then Dr Seo suggested I get full face fat graft top up! I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was a naughty girl being 2 lbs underweight from when I last saw him in April 2017! So there I was at 96.8 lbs needing full face fg as I had not gained back up to 99 lbs in time. I thought to myself, wow I now get to see how Dr Seo does full face fat graft as I had only had 3 experiences at the hands of Dr Kim at DAPRS. I was a bit apprehensive as visions of Frankenstein face came to mind and I was trying to figure out how not to look at my face after the op. I also got ultherapy lift which is a noninvasive lower facelift so no invasive threads or cutting. Apparently there is a chart with skin types and mine was type 1 thin and elastic so only qualified for ultherapy and not thread or smas.
> 
> I awoke to a face full of tape like a mummy. From what I could see peeking in between the tapes, was skin looking full and not monster face. Phew! And my thighs were wrapped in compression bandages so the bruising was much less than at DA. I was given a week's supply of amoxicillin, antacid and paracetamol and the usual pumpkin juices and porridge. I am due to go back tomorrow at 11 am for the unveiling of the mummy. lol. But knowing me, when it is light in the morning I shall carefully peel away the tapes one by one for my reveal! I then have to rush to regen to ask if I am a candidate for zygoma or v line. I know right, I don't need it so hoping this is reaffirmed by Dr Oh at Regen. Then I meet up my friend at GNG as she goes under for v line after tough negotiations for a fair price while I ask Seong about my nose.



Hey @MissOrange, I wish you a speedy recovery!

I´m still doing research on surgery that will be best suitable for me. I contacted View, DA, GNG and Cooki. I decide to remove Cooki from my list just because they don´t do two jaw and I wasn´t very impressed with their online consultation.

Before when I contacted DA they told me I don´t need any bone surgeries, just fat grafting to my face because my face is narrow and a bit hollow. View advised me to do just V line and GNG was the only clinic to advise me to do double jaw (they quoted me 16 mil feel free to tell me if that´s a rip off or not) because they said the mid section of my face is too long and I agree. Now I´m just trying to figure out if I really need two jaw or not. My bite is ok. I have a slight mouth protrusion though but I heard that can be fixed with V line surgery alone. Basically my issues are that my face is too long for my taste and my jaw too square and strong. My chin is also too long. From different angles I can look nice, but I would definitely love to get prettier so that I no longer have to worry about the way I look and also finally stop avoiding taking selfies etc.

I´m someone who´s not looking for perfection. I just want to have a cute, small and more feminine face.

Can you tell me how much do you know about double jaw surgery and if that alone can make a person´s face smaller? Do they also reshape the chin and shorten it or it just a jaw surgery? I saw one singer in my country who had a really big underbite. His dentist told him that his teeh might start falling out if he doesn´t get a double jaw surgery and when he did now he looks really good! Now he´s good looking and feels way more confident about himself. I´ve noticed that his chin is also visibly shorter so that´s why I´m curious if they also reshape the chin during double jaw. I´m on a budget so I still don´t know what my best option is..I just want to do it and get over it once and for all.

Would appreciate it if you could help me out. You seem like someone who knows a lot about these things )

Thanks in advance and cheers!


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## European95xx_

European95xx_ said:


> Hey @MissOrange, I wish you a speedy recovery!
> 
> I´m still doing research on surgery that will be best suitable for me. I contacted View, DA, GNG and Cooki. I decide to remove Cooki from my list just because they don´t do two jaw and I wasn´t very impressed with their online consultation.
> 
> Before when I contacted DA they told me I don´t need any bone surgeries, just fat grafting to my face because my face is narrow and a bit hollow. View advised me to do just V line and GNG was the only clinic to advise me to do double jaw (they quoted me 16 mil feel free to tell me if that´s a rip off or not) because they said the mid section of my face is too long and I agree. Now I´m just trying to figure out if I really need two jaw or not. My bite is ok. I have a slight mouth protrusion though but I heard that can be fixed with V line surgery alone. Basically my issues are that my face is too long for my taste and my jaw too square and strong. My chin is also too long. From different angles I can look nice, but I would definitely love to get prettier so that I no longer have to worry about the way I look and also finally stop avoiding taking selfies etc.
> 
> I´m someone who´s not looking for perfection. I just want to have a cute, small and more feminine face.
> 
> Can you tell me how much do you know about double jaw surgery and if that alone can make a person´s face smaller? Do they also reshape the chin and shorten it or it just a jaw surgery? I saw one singer in my country who had a really big underbite. His dentist told him that his teeh might start falling out if he doesn´t get a double jaw surgery and when he did now he looks really good! Now he´s good looking and feels way more confident about himself. I´ve noticed that his chin is also visibly shorter so that´s why I´m curious if they also reshape the chin during double jaw. I´m on a budget so I still don´t know what my best option is..I just want to do it and get over it once and for all.
> 
> Would appreciate it if you could help me out. You seem like someone who knows a lot about these things )
> 
> Thanks in advance and cheers!


----------



## MissOrange

Perceval said:


> I just want to say how thankful I am for this wonderful thread! It's so informative, especially on the rhinoplasty and fat grafting (which are two procedures I'm looking to get in the near future). By the way, I'm so glad that the second top up is going well so far for you! You look amazing in those pictures!
> 
> I have a question though, it's one that I've been asking and I haven't been getting any answers to (which is probably because no one really knows). I don't expect it to be answered.
> 
> So, my mom got her rhinoplasty done when she was younger. She had her nose shaved down. I told her that I didn't like the idea of implants or rib cartilage for rhinoplasty and then asked her if she had use any of those. She told me that she didn't and she doesn't think it's required, but I need other opinions on this.
> 
> Her nose still looks amazing to this day for someone that's getting into their late 40s.


Hi @Perceval, if your mum is happy with her no plant no rib nose, then let her be. I have now met yet another lady in her 30s and same thing, rib got warped! Clearly we are not being told everything about rib! And I found a photo of a poor young girl with silicone extruding from the tip of her nose! Once your mum goes down the path of rib or silicone, she is facing a ticking timebomb as to when she will need a revision rhinoplasty and when that fails, another one and so on and so forth. If you love your mum, then let her be if she is happy with her nose. Believe me had I seen photos of open rhinoplasty and known about rib shrinkage, I would most definitely not have gotten rib rhino! Google open rhino images and see for yourself! Scary stuff. It makes me concerned when girls think they can improve their nose by 1-2 mm yet have not seen an open rhino because had they done so they would realise how impossible it is to get it to the mm when they close a degloved nose.


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## MissOrange

European95xx_ said:


> Hey @MissOrange, I wish you a speedy recovery!
> 
> I´m still doing research on surgery that will be best suitable for me. I contacted View, DA, GNG and Cooki. I decide to remove Cooki from my list just because they don´t do two jaw and I wasn´t very impressed with their online consultation.
> 
> Before when I contacted DA they told me I don´t need any bone surgeries, just fat grafting to my face because my face is narrow and a bit hollow. View advised me to do just V line and GNG was the only clinic to advise me to do double jaw (they quoted me 16 mil feel free to tell me if that´s a rip off or not) because they said the mid section of my face is too long and I agree. Now I´m just trying to figure out if I really need two jaw or not. My bite is ok. I have a slight mouth protrusion though but I heard that can be fixed with V line surgery alone. Basically my issues are that my face is too long for my taste and my jaw too square and strong. My chin is also too long. From different angles I can look nice, but I would definitely love to get prettier so that I no longer have to worry about the way I look and also finally stop avoiding taking selfies etc.
> 
> I´m someone who´s not looking for perfection. I just want to have a cute, small and more feminine face.
> 
> Can you tell me how much do you know about double jaw surgery and if that alone can make a person´s face smaller? Do they also reshape the chin and shorten it or it just a jaw surgery? I saw one singer in my country who had a really big underbite. His dentist told him that his teeh might start falling out if he doesn´t get a double jaw surgery and when he did now he looks really good! Now he´s good looking and feels way more confident about himself. I´ve noticed that his chin is also visibly shorter so that´s why I´m curious if they also reshape the chin during double jaw. I´m on a budget so I still don´t know what my best option is..I just want to do it and get over it once and for all.
> 
> Would appreciate it if you could help me out. You seem like someone who knows a lot about these things )
> 
> Thanks in advance and cheers!


Hi @European95xx_ ,

I was having dinner with some ladies I met through PF and funnily the conversation revolved around 2 jaw surgery! We had each been told we needed it! But came to the conclusion it is a dated operation and fat grafting +/- v line is less traumatic. Curious that DA said you do not need any bone surgeries. I hold Dr Lee in high regard as I saw his zygoma reduction in a young Caucasian male. In my opinion, no one needs 2 jaw surgery unless they have a completely mishapen jaw with malocclusion. My advice is try fat grafting to give 3D volume to your face and if still unhappy then add v line at 7.3 million+tax but never spend 16 million! STOP! Hammer time!


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## MissOrange

Now this is uncanny! Remember how I had posted a photo of Christie Brinkley in her 60s! Well guess who also tried ultherapy!!! http://www.ultherapy.com. And it is FDA approved! Silly me had it first then checked if it was fda approved! lol. Guess what Christie Brinkley needs? You got it, fat graft in her hollow eyelids!

Fascinating the new technologies that exist! Is it ok to look 20s in my 80s? lol. Will I have to date a 20s young man when I am a widow? My goodness, it is like the cult movie She with Ursula Andress!


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## Perceval

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Perceval, if your mum is happy with her no plant no rib nose, then let her be. I have now met yet another lady in her 30s and same thing, rib got warped! Clearly we are not being told everything about rib! And I found a photo of a poor young girl with silicone extruding from the tip of her nose! Once your mum goes down the path of rib or silicone, she is facing a ticking timebomb as to when she will need a revision rhinoplasty and when that fails, another one and so on and so forth. If you love your mum, then let her be if she is happy with her nose. Believe me had I seen photos of open rhinoplasty and known about rib shrinkage, I would most definitely not have gotten rib rhino! Google open rhino images and see for yourself! Scary stuff. It makes me concerned when girls think they can improve their nose by 1-2 mm yet have not seen an open rhino because had they done so they would realise how impossible it is to get it to the mm when they close a degloved nose.


Oh thank you so much for the reply, but that's not what I meant. My fault for not being clear, sorry.

I actually I agree with my mom on the no rib no implant for the nose (I want to do the same thing she did, and so that's why I asked). She doesn't plan to have rhino done again as she is happy with her nose still. 

I never told her that she go through a revision with any of those things. In fact, I love the way her nose looks and I don't think she should change it at all. 

But I know what you mean, those events sound so terrible, yikes! I want to avoid both rib and implant myself due to those events that can occur, which is why I'm trying to research this. The images that I'm seeing on google search are so horrible!
Thank you so much for your input though! 

Do you have any idea what my best bet would be with rhinoplasty? I mean there probably isn't a perfect surgery, but I'm pretty worried. What have you found so far?


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## MissOrange

Perceval said:


> Oh thank you so much for the reply, but that's not what I meant. My fault for not being clear, sorry.
> 
> I actually I agree with my mom on the no rib no implant for the nose (I want to do the same thing she did, and so that's why I asked). She doesn't plan to have rhino done again as she is happy with her nose still.
> 
> I never told her that she go through a revision with any of those things. In fact, I love the way her nose looks and I don't think she should change it at all.
> 
> But I know what you mean, those events sound so terrible, yikes! I want to avoid both rib and implant myself due to those events that can occur, which is why I'm trying to research this. The images that I'm seeing on google search are so horrible!
> Thank you so much for your input though!
> 
> Do you have any idea what my best bet would be with rhinoplasty? I mean there probably isn't a perfect surgery, but I'm pretty worried. What have you found so far?


Hi @Perceval apologies for my misunderstanding. It depends on the type of rhinoplasty. If you want to rasp down a hump or raise a droopy tip in tip rhinoplasty then you can ask to have this done without plant or rib. But it is impossible to build up a short nose without grafting or to lengthen a nose without grafting.


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## European95xx_

MissOrange said:


> Hi @European95xx_ ,
> 
> I was having dinner with some ladies I met through PF and funnily the conversation revolved around 2 jaw surgery! We had each been told we needed it! But came to the conclusion it is a dated operation and fat grafting +/- v line is less traumatic. Curious that DA said you do not need any bone surgeries. I hold Dr Lee in high regard as I saw his zygoma reduction in a young Caucasian male. In my opinion, no one needs 2 jaw surgery unless they have a completely mishapen jaw with malocclusion. My advice is try fat grafting to give 3D volume to your face and if still unhappy then add v line at 7.3 million+tax but never spend 16 million! STOP! Hammer time!


Hey @MissOrange
thanks once again for your help  I knew instantly that 16 mil for double jaw is too much and the new consultant of GNG gave me a bad vibe. I know that GNG is a good clinic, but I think the consultants also have to be good and friendly. The first one was really nice and friendly, but the one seems a bit unfriendly. I´ll definitely have to think things through.

As for fat grafting, love the results but I´m scared of how long it will stay on my face considering I have a fast metabolism and low body fat. This is the reason why I started considering 2 jaw so that perhaps I won´t need fat grafting. Basically I don´t want to get a lot of precedures done. I would like to fix what´s bothering me with hopefully just one procedure, 2 maximum.

As for DA´s opinion on my photos. My face looked small on those photos I remember, but my chin still too long in my eyes so I don´t think I´d be happy with just fat grafting.

I´ll continue researching until I make my decision.

Thanks again for your help and by the way I saw your photos and I think you look really pretty and that your face shape is lovely. If I was you I wouldn´t get a zygoma reduction, but hey it´s all up to you in the end


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Now this is uncanny! Remember how I had posted a photo of Christie Brinkley in her 60s! Well guess who also tried ultherapy!!! http://www.ultherapy.com. And it is FDA approved! Silly me had it first then checked if it was fda approved! lol. Guess what Christie Brinkley needs? You got it, fat graft in her hollow eyelids!
> 
> Fascinating the new technologies that exist! Is it ok to look 20s in my 80s? lol. Will I have to date a 20s young man when I am a widow? My goodness, it is like the cult movie She with Ursula Andress!


You forget she is also the ambassador for a filler can’t recall which one. One of the newer ones so she is pumped full of it AND she had a full facelift after her last divorce several years ago so the way she looks is not due to Ultherapy which can give you unpredictable fat loss. When you think about it the RF technology cannot be controlled to the nth degree. Read stories on RS. Dr Israr Wong said you have to pick the right patient so ppl with skinny faces are not suitable for it.


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## MissOrange

Good morning fron Korea!!! I managed to keep the mummy tapes on throughout the night and carefully peeled each one off this morning.  I was like huh where are the stitches? Where are the bruises? Mild swelling in the chin and forehead but other than that magic baby fat graft ready to go out without a mask!!! Wow Dr Seo was gentle with my face vs Dr Kim at DA must have been brutal to leave me with swelling and bruising for 2 weeks! Oh to think I suffered monster face and wept and had a kid stare at me like i was a monster at Frankfurt airport during my layover in 2016. I had chosen DA in 2016 thinking 2.5 million for 2 was cheaper than mvp but did not realise that mvp's 2 million includes free top up like DA! Seeing is believing. Woohoo off to regen in an hour to meet celebrity ps Dr Oh. Fingers crossed he too says no to zygoma.


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## catelet

@MissOrange happy healing! How nice you didn't require a facelift--which doesn't surprise me one bit as you already looked so good!! You may start looking your beautiful daughters age soon!! Can't wait to hear your opinion on ulthera down the road! 

I'm wondering about what you said re: Christie Brinkley needing fat grafts on her eyes--do you mean above her eyes below the natural crease? I have a hard time understanding where fat should be placed there.    She does look amazing for 63! 

@Perceval good for your mom that she didn't need any type of implant! Rhinoplasty without implants is common in the U.S., as caucasions normally don't require implants when their only desire is to make the nose smaller or straighter.


----------



## catelet

I posted above at the same time as you @MissOrange -- wow, you do look like a teenager!!! You must be thrilled--where did he inject the fat--it looks like maybe under eyes, chin, cheeks?? Amazing!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

You look fab.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Now this is uncanny! Remember how I had posted a photo of Christie Brinkley in her 60s! Well guess who also tried ultherapy!!! http://www.ultherapy.com. And it is FDA approved! Silly me had it first then checked if it was fda approved! lol. Guess what Christie Brinkley needs? You got it, fat graft in her hollow eyelids!
> 
> Fascinating the new technologies that exist! Is it ok to look 20s in my 80s? lol. Will I have to date a 20s young man when I am a widow? My goodness, it is like the cult movie She with Ursula Andress!


Here are Christie's photos taken yesterday 26 Feb. Note she has a full chubby face. No VLine or any bone facial contouring for her. In my youth I used to hate my big round face but now in my 60's I want it back but in a good way like Christie. She is now 64. Fat = Youth. I have to show Dr Seo to get my fat back up to this level. But I can't do top ups like you Miss O 6 times in 3 years. I will be forever bruised and my thighs will be depleted!
Last pic is Christie before she had her facelift at Lennox Hill Hospital NYC.


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## MissOrange

Here is my summary of Regen. I paid 50,000 won or about $50 to be sent my x rays taken by regen to my kakao. I thought they looked okay until Dr Oh told me my posterior zygoma arches needed to be brought in 10 mms each on each side. He says he has devised a technique so there is no sagging by removing a cm from each maxilla and moving the zygoma medially. He would secure with a plate and screws, have 3 skin staples on the outside removed in a week and dissolvable sutures inside removed in 2 weeks and it would only take one hour with swelling down within a week. The consultant started at 10 million and said 8 million (with use of photos and paying 1 million deposit now). I suggested 6 but she said he couldn't do it for this but she checked and he would for 7 cash. He noted that my chin had been shaved on x ray and asked who did it as he would have done it differently. Here are my x rays. I thought my x rays looked ok but apparently my zygomas need reducing 1 cm on each side which would bring a 14.5 cm width to 12.5 cm CD size width!


----------



## soyeon

Hi @MissOrange, I’ve consulted with dr oh of Regen before as well and he recommended something similar to yours. He said no drainage tubes would need to be used. Are you planning to go ahead with Regen for zygoma reduction? What are your thoughts?


----------



## MissOrange

soyeon said:


> Hi @MissOrange, I’ve consulted with dr oh of Regen before as well and he recommended something similar to yours. He said no drainage tubes would need to be used. Are you planning to go ahead with Regen for zygoma reduction? What are your thoughts?


Hi @soyeon, I decided against as it is too risky for me to put plate and screws in my face when I am prone to rejection and infection of foreign material. I figured I could bring my hair forward to reduce 1 cms on each side of my face.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is my summary of my GNG consultation for my nose. My appointment was for 3 pm and I did not see Dr Seong until 4:30 pm. They took photos, x rays, ct scans of my head but the only image I was shown on Dr Seong's computer was a frontal photograph of my face? He said based on the photo, I had too much nostril show and then he felt my nose and informed me there was NO rib in my bridge and that either the surgeon had taken it out or it had completely dissolved! I was gutted to hear this. He said he only felt rib in the columella and tip and that my nose lacked projection and needed fresh rib and a skin graft to lengthen for less nostril show. He said that if he found my rib was not good enough he would use donor cadaver rib. That was all of maybe 5 minutes at most. He did not look up my nose just manually felt it! There were no morphs and he did not bring up any of the photos taken from 45 degrees and side views. I had waited 90 minutes for this? I was then taken to another room where the consultant Grace started talking money. She said primary rib rhino at GNG starts at 12 million and revision rib at 16 million. But it did not stop there, Grace said through Hazel the translator that a skin graft to lengthen my short nose would be an additional 2 million won so in all 18 million won ie $18,000 or roughly £13k!!! She offered to lower the price to 13.5 million if they used my photos and video.

I left in tears as I cannot think of a worse implant to put in a nose than rib with such a high absorption rate! I regret ever having rib rhino when my nose was perfectly adequate and not short. I think those thinking of rib or silicone rhino must be cautious and think of how to have a rhino without these as they may be flawed and you may end up facing horrendous prices for rib revision. Once you have rib in your nose, you may not go back to silicone or a virgin nose so the costs spiral.

I have decided I have now reached the end of my plastic surgery journey. I will not do any further procedures, save maybe a smas facelift at age 60. I wish you all well and hope you do not make the same mistakes I have made and instead select correctly the first time to save you pain, tears and money.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @soyeon, I decided against as it is too risky for me to put plate and screws in my face when I am prone to rejection and infection of foreign material. I figured I could bring my hair forward to reduce 1 cms on each side of my face.


LOL you are vain but you are chicken.  Some people are just unlucky and you could fall into that category.

Patient 1- I have had two double-jaw orthognathic surgeries that didn't cause any lasting problems to the sensation in my nose or upper lip, but this last surgery did. Ever since the last surgery, the area just inside and under my nose is constantly aching and my upper front teeth and gums are still numb.
Patient 2 After 5 *years* of chronic *pain* from my first double *jaw surgery*, they took out all the metal and fixed my jaw all over again. Will it fix the chronic *pain* too?
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
*Ongoing pain* was reported by 21.4% of the patients after orthognathic surgery, 7.1% of whom experienced neuropathic *pain* and 14.3% experienced ..... jaw bone surgery such as the orthognathic surgery (10 cases) and *facial contouring* surgery (4 cases) were reported in the period from 2000 to 2016.

Finally less is more. This poor model should have left well enough alone but she wanted Ulthera to firm up a little. Here are her unfortunate results. 
She said she is not interested in fat grafting to fix her problem but from the looks of it she needs a mini facelift now.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> LOL you are vain but you are chicken.  Some people are just unlucky and you could fall into that category.
> 
> Patient 1- I have had two double-jaw orthognathic surgeries that didn't cause any lasting problems to the sensation in my nose or upper lip, but this last surgery did. Ever since the last surgery, the area just inside and under my nose is constantly aching and my upper front teeth and gums are still numb.
> Patient 2 After 5 *years* of chronic *pain* from my first double *jaw surgery*, they took out all the metal and fixed my jaw all over again. Will it fix the chronic *pain* too?
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> *Ongoing pain* was reported by 21.4% of the patients after orthognathic surgery, 7.1% of whom experienced neuropathic *pain* and 14.3% experienced ..... jaw bone surgery such as the orthognathic surgery (10 cases) and *facial contouring* surgery (4 cases) were reported in the period from 2000 to 2016.
> 
> Finally less is more. This poor model should have left well enough alone but she wanted Ulthera to firm up a little. Here are her unfortunate results.
> She said she is not interested in fat grafting to fix her problem but from the looks of it she needs a mini facelift now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3981742
> View attachment 3981736


Yes @SheOnlyLooks25 bone surgery has its potential complications and I am not prepared to have 2 zygoma operations as Dr Oh said he could remove the plate and screws a year later. To cut through the maxilla and remove a cm of maxilla on each side and then to push the zygoma in is just too much and I have ample hair to hide my cheekbones which all my friends say are not big enough for zygoma reduction.

Thank you for warning me of the potential risks of ulthera. A bit late as I had it yesterday but surgery is about finding a good surgeon you can trust, ie one you can literally put your face in the hands of. I have full faith in Dr Hyo-Seok Seo as he did a fabulous job on my old eyes in 2016, and now on my full face fat graft with ulthera. Staff at regen and gng were amazed I only had full face fat graft yesterday as I looked fine and not distorted or swollen! The bruising on my donor site thighs is minimal and nothing like the horrific bruising at DAPRS clinic or that monster face they gave me which took 2 weeks to even resemble a normal face. I pulled at my cheek skin just now and nope it is not as loose as the patient you posted. I can't even pull a cm. It is tight. I am eternally grateful to have found mvp clinic run by a Canadian Korean manager who treats foreigners fairly and does not enter into this how much can we overcharge foreigners game that other clinics like gng, jw, banobagi, etc. do. And we Westerners find it hard to keep negotiating. When MVP gives you a price you can assume it is a fair price so no need to negotiate. No need to clinic hop either when you find one that feels like a family to you and treat you with kindness and not as a business potential for a huge profit. I wept as I tried to negotiate with GNG's consultant Grace (note, a consultant in Korea is not a doctor but a price negotiator). She and the translator Hazel did not even offer me a tissue while I was weeping exhausted and frustrated at trying to get them to price fairly! They laughed as Grace said kitty berry, michael guo, josephine, etc were all her patients. But she didn't care about the referrals. She kept insisting prices had gone up and rib rhino revision started from 16 million won and primary from 12. I thought to myself, what a waste of a trip to see GNG when it has now joined the big clinics interested in overcharging foreigners. If anyone finds a surgeon who does rib revision at reasonable prices ie 11 million and is good, please share as one day even the rib in my tip will disappear. . The red flag was when a Canadian patient told me they started at 29 million with her for cadaver rib rhino, v line and fat grafting!


----------



## jamie82

Those pics  look scary. But probably wrong usage by inexperienced doctors / aestheticians who do not asses the tissue profile properly. I think most cases, unless you have alot of fats on the face, you wanna avoid using the 3.0mm transducer.  Ulthera basically "shrink wraps" dermis, fats and SMAS layers. Like cooking a raw steak, the well done version "shrinks" in size.

She perhaps could have used 1.5mm transducer for her dermis layer combined with 4.5mm for SMAS layer. Reducing the fat layers alone gives that sunken look as well as the stretchy skin due to volume loss. Also her skin looks thin, so using 3.0mm is not advisable in the first place. Judging from the treatment area, maybe she demanded for that julia roberts / angelina jolie sunken cheek look where buccal fat removal may have been more apt. Curious what the realself docs said anyways.

Ulthera imho really depends on doctors assessing the tissue profile and I personally feel as we age we should avoid the 3.0mm transducer on cheek area where we are prone to volume loss. Edit: her retracted lids / bulging eyes in after pic , thinning skin and loss of weight seems to indicate some other medical condition else possibly .. e.g. hyperthyroid :/ so would take this with pinch of salt.

Attached pic of areas treated and ulthera layers.



SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> LOL you are vain but you are chicken.  Some people are just unlucky and you could fall into that category.
> 
> Patient 1- I have had two double-jaw orthognathic surgeries that didn't cause any lasting problems to the sensation in my nose or upper lip, but this last surgery did. Ever since the last surgery, the area just inside and under my nose is constantly aching and my upper front teeth and gums are still numb.
> Patient 2 After 5 *years* of chronic *pain* from my first double *jaw surgery*, they took out all the metal and fixed my jaw all over again. Will it fix the chronic *pain* too?
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> *Ongoing pain* was reported by 21.4% of the patients after orthognathic surgery, 7.1% of whom experienced neuropathic *pain* and 14.3% experienced ..... jaw bone surgery such as the orthognathic surgery (10 cases) and *facial contouring* surgery (4 cases) were reported in the period from 2000 to 2016.
> 
> Finally less is more. This poor model should have left well enough alone but she wanted Ulthera to firm up a little. Here are her unfortunate results.
> She said she is not interested in fat grafting to fix her problem but from the looks of it she needs a mini facelift now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3981742
> View attachment 3981736


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Yes @SheOnlyLooks25 bone surgery has its potential complications and I am not prepared to have 2 zygoma operations as Dr Oh said he could remove the plate and screws a year later. To cut through the maxilla and remove a cm of maxilla on each side and then to push the zygoma in is just too much and I have ample hair to hide my cheekbones which all my friends say are not big enough for zygoma reduction.
> 
> Thank you for warning me of the potential risks of ulthera. A bit late as I had it yesterday but surgery is about finding a good surgeon you can trust, ie one you can literally put your face in the hands of. I have full faith in Dr Hyo-Seok Seo as he did a fabulous job on my old eyes in 2016, and now on my full face fat graft with ulthera. Staff at regen and gng were amazed I only had full face fat graft yesterday as I looked fine and not distorted or swollen! The bruising on my donor site thighs is minimal and nothing like the horrific bruising at DAPRS clinic or that monster face they gave me which took 2 weeks to even resemble a normal face. I pulled at my cheek skin just now and nope it is not as loose as the patient you posted. I can't even pull a cm. It is tight. I am eternally grateful to have found mvp clinic run by a Canadian Korean manager who treats foreigners fairly and does not enter into this how much can we overcharge foreigners game that other clinics like gng, jw, banobagi, etc. do. And we Westerners find it hard to keep negotiating. When MVP gives you a price you can assume it is a fair price so no need to negotiate. No need to clinic hop either when you find one that feels like a family to you and treat you with kindness and not as a business potential for a huge profit. I wept as I tried to negotiate with GNG's consultant Grace (note, a consultant in Korea is not a doctor but a price negotiator). She and the translator Hazel did not even offer me a tissue while I was weeping exhausted and frustrated at trying to get them to price fairly! They laughed as Grace said kitty berry, michael guo, josephine, etc were all her patients. But she didn't care about the referrals. She kept insisting prices had gone up and rib rhino revision started from 16 million won and primary from 12. I thought to myself, what a waste of a trip to see GNG when it has now joined the big clinics interested in overcharging foreigners. If anyone finds a surgeon who does rib revision at reasonable prices ie 11 million and is good, please share as one day even the rib in my tip will disappear. . The red flag was when a Canadian patient told me they started at 29 million with her for cadaver rib rhino, v line and fat grafting!


Hey I spent nearly the whole day downloading b&a on VIP.  OMG i am excited as VIP has gotten SMAS down pat. Firstly nearly every other clinic can only show you maybe 2-4 b&a of their facelifts and furthermore some are not even SMAS but versions of thread lifts and MACS. I believe VIP has learnt their technique off Dr Joo Heon LEE, as the Professor does train and teach. Because I can't see his b&a due to the fact that you have to register on his site and it is all in Korean plus you need to put your Korean phone number in to be validated!!! My equal preference is VIP.  So not only do they do SMAS, they do HIGH SMAS and they always do it in combo with a neck lift (this is a separate op and pricing).  Absolutely amazing results, they truly rebuild the structure of one's face. There are adjumas there who look like lost causes turned into swans. Sorry, I digress - the reason why I am responding to THIS POST is because nearly 99.9% of their rhino are ribs!! And pretty amazing too but NOT for me. You have to try to see them while you are there for pricing!! You never know your luck.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is what GNG hospital translator Hazel wrote as a summary of their rib revision rhino pricing for me. Apparently use of photos and videos also includes 2 good reviews of gng for 13.5 million ie $13,500 which is still way too high considering last year a patient got zygoma and revision v line for between 9 and 10 million with photos. Hazel and Grace responded by saying that was last year and prices have gone up this year. There was no referral discount,  no cash discount etc.


----------



## onlydbest

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> But I can't do top ups like you Miss O 6 times in 3 years. I will be forever bruised and my thighs will be depleted!



6 times in 3 years? That's not any better longevity  than fillers.

About this High SMAS, that's a new terminology. And they patented it? There must be another western name for that.  It looks like the traditional FL with sutures around/behind the ears.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 2 of full face fat graft at MVP by Dr Seo. I let Dr Seo use his artistic talent to put fg wherever he wanted. Definitely better than at DA. For new clients mvp charges the going rate of 2 million plus free top up. Then for additional top ups it  costs less. Ready to fly back home tomorrow. Dr Seo even created a v line chin with fat graft amd no chin implant. Now my job is to maintain this weight whatever it is as there are no scales at the California Hotel! My button nose looks fine. Fingers crossed the remaining rib lasts as long as possible. Thinking positively.


----------



## onlydbest

MissOrange said:


> Yes @SheOnlyLooks25 bone surgery has its potential complications and I am not prepared to have 2 zygoma operations as Dr Oh said he could remove the plate and screws a year later. To cut through the maxilla and remove a cm of maxilla on each side and then to push the zygoma in is just too much and I have ample hair to hide my cheekbones which all my friends say are not big enough for zygoma reduction.
> 
> Thank you for warning me of the potential risks of ulthera. A bit late as I had it yesterday but surgery is about finding a good surgeon you can trust, ie one you can literally put your face in the hands of. I have full faith in Dr Hyo-Seok Seo as he did a fabulous job on my old eyes in 2016, and now on my full face fat graft with ulthera. Staff at regen and gng were amazed I only had full face fat graft yesterday as I looked fine and not distorted or swollen! The bruising on my donor site thighs is minimal and nothing like the horrific bruising at DAPRS clinic or that monster face they gave me which took 2 weeks to even resemble a normal face. I pulled at my cheek skin just now and nope it is not as loose as the patient you posted. I can't even pull a cm. It is tight. I am eternally grateful to have found mvp clinic run by a Canadian Korean manager who treats foreigners fairly and does not enter into this how much can we overcharge foreigners game that other clinics like gng, jw, banobagi, etc. do. And we Westerners find it hard to keep negotiating. When MVP gives you a price you can assume it is a fair price so no need to negotiate. No need to clinic hop either when you find one that feels like a family to you and treat you with kindness and not as a business potential for a huge profit. I wept as I tried to negotiate with GNG's consultant Grace (note, a consultant in Korea is not a doctor but a price negotiator). She and the translator Hazel did not even offer me a tissue while I was weeping exhausted and frustrated at trying to get them to price fairly! They laughed as Grace said kitty berry, michael guo, josephine, etc were all her patients. But she didn't care about the referrals. She kept insisting prices had gone up and rib rhino revision started from 16 million won and primary from 12. I thought to myself, what a waste of a trip to see GNG when it has now joined the big clinics interested in overcharging foreigners. If anyone finds a surgeon who does rib revision at reasonable prices ie 11 million and is good, please share as one day even the rib in my tip will disappear. . The red flag was when a Canadian patient told me they started at 29 million with her for cadaver rib rhino, v line and fat grafting!



Okay, so crying when negotiating did not work.  I'm confused tho, were you trying to negotiate because you are ready to have it done if the price is right? Just after fg and lasering? Wouldn't that be too many procedures at once?


----------



## MissOrange

onlydbest said:


> Okay, so crying when negotiating did not work.  I'm confused tho, were you trying to negotiate because you are ready to have it done if the price is right? Just after fg and lasering? Wouldn't that be too many procedures at once?


No I was after what the best gng price was for revision  rib rhino so that if my nose got shorter I had a safety blanket and knew who to go to. I am basically a ticking time bomb with this shrinking rib. I think I will go to Jan Stanek in the UK if it comes to that as one day I will wake up and even the rib in the columella and tip will have dissolved.

As I have my last checkup at mvp this afternoon I disobeyed their nurse and put on makeup for my selfie with Seo. So far he has looked better than me in selfies with him!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

onlydbest said:


> 6 times in 3 years? That's not any better longevity  than fillers.
> 
> About this High SMAS, that's a new terminology. And they patented it? There must be another western name for that.  It looks like the traditional FL with sutures around/behind the ears.


There are several versions of SMAS. High SMAS is one version but no it is not VIP’s patented technique (probably too hard to patent a technique). I just think it is superior. VIP is my second choice if Prof Lee, Area 88 is too hard to see.


----------



## MissOrange

onlydbest said:


> 6 times in 3 years? That's not any better longevity  than fillers.
> 
> About this High SMAS, that's a new terminology. And they patented it? There must be another western name for that.  It looks like the traditional FL with sutures around/behind the ears.


Hi @onlydbest I have had lid fg x 5 (2 at DA as part of face fg so did not last as not prp) and full face fg x 4 now but DA did not use prp fg for the 3 face fg's at DA. The longevity of lid fat graft from mvp is better than DA so I think it is prp. I am hoping for longevity now as have retained a bit each time.


----------



## MissOrange

I love the collage function on google photos! Okay so here is a side by side comparison of full face fat graft done by Dr Kim of DA (Delightful Aesthetics) clinic July 2016 day 1 and 2 postop vs Dr Seo of MVP (Most Valuable Plastic ) surgery clinic Feb 2018 post op day 1 and 2. What the bleep! I can't believe how badly DA distorted my face! It took weeks to recover as though my face had been battered! No wonder people are amazed at the day 1-2 of MVP's fg! I most certainly am as I cannot live through 2 weeks of monster face ever again! Tip: take arnica for swelling, it works!


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## MissOrange

There is absolutely no competition. These photos from the first week of full face fat graft at DA are how NOT to do fat grafting! Once you have experienced the best at fat grafting, you appreciate Dr Seo more.


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## MissOrange

And for newcomers, a few days before DA went to work on my face doing the above fat graft, here is what I looked like. Yes I wrecked a beautiful mvp face July 2016. Dr Seo had done my eyes and Dr Choi had done my lips. And now, I feel that MVP has made me as beautiful again if not more than these photos. I have come full circle.


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## missy_sana

Hi @MissOrange !

Glad to hear that you are recovering both in body AND mind!  

I would be worried about you doing anymore aggressively invasive procedures at your delicate age.  Even some teenage/20's women would also have difficulty healing (or surviving) from facial contouring and bone shaving!

I have a slightly angular jawline and zygoma, and a non-V-line chin implant from years ago before pointy Korean chins became in fashion.  When I lose weight, my V-line looks OK, albeit the sunken cheeks.  But when I pile on a few pounds of weight, my face goes round and chubby like an "adjumma".

Before I did the facial fat graft at MVP two weeks ago, I just depended on clever selfie camera angles, styling my hair strategically over my face or smiling to lift up my cheeks to give a heart-shaped face illusion.  Oh, and the all-important PINK blusher to give youthful cheeks, and maybe a bit of bronzer for sculpting.

@MissOrange  you look younger with that lipstick in a lighter shade, so pair that up with youthful rosy/baby pink blusher.  Or a stronger shade of pink so that it shows up in photos.


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Hi @MissOrange !
> 
> Glad to hear that you are recovering both in body AND mind!
> 
> I would be worried about you doing anymore aggressively invasive procedures at your delicate age.  Even some teenage/20's women would also have difficulty healing (or surviving) from facial contouring and bone shaving!
> 
> I have a slightly angular jawline and zygoma, and a non-V-line chin implant from years ago before pointy Korean chins became in fashion.  When I lose weight, my V-line looks OK, albeit the sunken cheeks.  But when I pile on a few pounds of weight, my face goes round and chubby like an "adjumma".
> 
> Before I did the facial fat graft at MVP two weeks ago, I just depended on clever selfie camera angles, styling my hair strategically over my face or smiling to lift up my cheeks to give a heart-shaped face illusion.  Oh, and the all-important PINK blusher to give youthful cheeks, and maybe a bit of bronzer for sculpting.
> 
> @MissOrange  you look younger with that lipstick in a lighter shade, so pair that up with youthful rosy/baby pink blusher.  Or a stronger shade of pink so that it shows up in photos.


Hi @missy_sana wow you were at mvp 2 weeks ago! I was still in London. You must have healed completely from the facial fat graft. Hope you like your new look. I tell ya faces are so sensitive to weight gain or loss. Lose a few pounds and the face caves in, sags and ages one vs gain a few pounds and as you say the face goes round and chubby. This is my first time getting full face fat graft at MVP so hoping the look stays as I like the look of day 2. Will try pink lipstick, blusher and bronzer as you suggest. You are so like me! When my face was either too fat or too thin I too used camera angles and hair! lol. I agree no bone cutting at my age. I felt the angle of my mandible and it is only an inch in height! After menopause osteoporosis will slowly creep up on me. I need all the mandible I can get going into old age!


----------



## missy_sana

<deleted, see below>


----------



## catelet

@missy_sana I think your message got cut off. 

Happy healing to both you and @MissOrange!


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## missy_sana

Well, my face & DES eyes have pretty much healed and settled down, but the rest of my body still feels otherwise!

Ever since Dr Choi's vermillion border surgery, I find that dark vampy lipstick ages me and is difficult to apply precisely to look good (think Edith Piaf's lip shape with her equally tragic drawn eyebrows).

So I'm sticking to bright virgin red shades and the right pink hues to give enough coverage over my lip border scars.

Time for you & me to have fun experimenting with tester makeup at Boots, Superdrug, and free makeovers at department store beauty counters, hehe...


----------



## catelet

@missy_sana are you glad you had the lip surgery? How long ago did you have it?


----------



## missy_sana

Thanks @catelet !

Actually, I really regret to have consented (at the last minute) to have my vermillion lip border cut into as the "Philtrum reduction" surgery.  I should have declined, asked for my money back, and searched for a proper bullhorn lift to avoid what happened to @MissOrange.  I didn't spot her postings of her vermillion border surgery experience because I think it was lost in smittenkitten's long thread at the time of my research.

I had mine done in Oct 2017, so I have to wait it out & hope it heals more invisibly.


----------



## catelet

@missy_sana I'm sorry to hear you ended up w/a surgery you weren't planning on. I truly hope your lip heals favorably! You can always have the bullhorn later though? Are you happy with your rhinoplasty revision w/Dr. Choi?

@MissOrange I agree with @missy_sana that it might have turned out the best not to have zygoma surgery. I also agree we lose bone as we age anyway. I could swear my cheekbones used to be higher/fuller than they are today---I'm a bit older than you and I don't want to lose any more bone at this point--but do the hands of time care what I think? No lol!


----------



## Jenaspring

MissOrange said:


> It's 11 pm in Seoul and what a day I had! My friend suggested I look into asps, apgujeong something plastic surgery, famous for facelifts, so I literally walked in as it was across the road out of exit 3 of Apgujeong station. The receptionist looked up and I said could I have a consult for a facelift. She kept looking around her for a hidden camera as she must have thought I was nuts asking for a facelift looking in my late 20s. She suggested I sit down as she got a consultant. The English speaking consultant then looked at my face and said, "you look too good for a smas facelift." That warmed the cockles of my heart. I left and headed for MVP.
> 
> I paid for eyelid fat graft top up as by now starved and dehydated for surgery, my lids looked hollow enough to get a top up, but then Dr Seo suggested I get full face fat graft top up! I didn't have the heart to tell him that I was a naughty girl being 2 lbs underweight from when I last saw him in April 2017! So there I was at 96.8 lbs needing full face fg as I had not gained back up to 99 lbs in time. I thought to myself, wow I now get to see how Dr Seo does full face fat graft as I had only had 3 experiences at the hands of Dr Kim at DAPRS. I was a bit apprehensive as visions of Frankenstein face came to mind and I was trying to figure out how not to look at my face after the op. I also got ultherapy lift which is a noninvasive lower facelift so no invasive threads or cutting. Apparently there is a chart with skin types and mine was type 1 thin and elastic so only qualified for ultherapy and not thread or smas.
> 
> I awoke to a face full of tape like a mummy. From what I could see peeking in between the tapes, was skin looking full and not monster face. Phew! And my thighs were wrapped in compression bandages so the bruising was much less than at DA. I was given a week's supply of amoxicillin, antacid and paracetamol and the usual pumpkin juices and porridge. I am due to go back tomorrow at 11 am for the unveiling of the mummy. lol. But knowing me, when it is light in the morning I shall carefully peel away the tapes one by one for my reveal! I then have to rush to regen to ask if I am a candidate for zygoma or v line. I know right, I don't need it so hoping this is reaffirmed by Dr Oh at Regen. Then I meet up my friend at GNG as she goes under for v line after tough negotiations for a fair price while I ask Seong about my nose.



@MissOrange Do you have a website for apgujeong something plastic surgery? I tried googling but it didn't come up.  

Thank you for all your posts, you've been such a great help to me and I'm sure to many girls here.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Jenaspring said:


> @MissOrange Do you have a website for apgujeong something plastic surgery? I tried googling but it didn't come up.
> 
> Thank you for all your posts, you've been such a great help to me and I'm sure to many girls here.



Here it is.


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> And for newcomers, a few days before DA went to work on my face doing the above fat graft, here is what I looked like. Yes I wrecked a beautiful mvp face July 2016. Dr Seo had done my eyes and Dr Choi had done my lips. And now, I feel that MVP has made me as beautiful again if not more than these photos. I have come full circle.



you look really wonderful now, thanks for sharing. i am not courageous enough to try fg in korea yet but it's good to know i have this option


----------



## MissOrange

@SheOnlyLooks25 a friend passed on this youtube link of a 58 yo getting FL with fat grafting at JK hospital. May be another one to consider for your research. I think as they have in house hotel rooms it may be out of my budget ps price but it looks good.  
What I wonder is would the lady's after have looked the same with just fat grafting? I think I am the poster girl for using fat grafting for lifting,  filling, and rejuvenation without smas.

For those researching v lines, bring this page to show your ps the exact shape you want to match as much can be lost in translation.  I always bring A4 size photos as one never knows how much the translator is translating or what. I have a great friend I met in Korea to thank for the youtube link and page on v lines. By combining research info you get double the info in half the time. Now make a collage and compare your current chin to each of the photos to see what your chin is classified as. The most desirable are trapezoid or triangle (Fan Bing). I've got to compare my selfies now. Lol.


----------



## Jenaspring

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Here it is.


thank you!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

No need to apologise for your insulting slurs about me being a promoter!!! I even gave u ASPS details whe u would help with Prof Lee! Witch


Jenaspring said:


> thank you!


to


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> @SheOnlyLooks25 a friend passed on this youtube link of a 58 yo getting FL with fat grafting at JK hospital. May be another one to consider for your research. I think as they have in house hotel rooms it may be out of my budget ps price but it looks good.
> What I wonder is would the lady's after have looked the same with just fat grafting? I think I am the poster girl for using fat grafting for lifting,  filling, and rejuvenation without smas.
> 
> For those researching v lines, bring this page to show your ps the exact shape you want to match as much can be lost in translation.  I always bring A4 size photos as one never knows how much the translator is translating or what. I have a great friend I met in Korea to thank for the youtube link and page on v lines. By combining research info you get double the info in half the time. Now make a collage and compare your current chin to each of the photos to see what your chin is classified as. The most desirable are trapezoid or triangle (Fan Bing). I've got to compare my selfies now. Lol.



That patient is an Aussie. She needs more FG I think.


----------



## MissOrange

If you are debating whether you need v line or not, as you do not know if it is skin, soft tissues and muscles vs your jaw which is making your lower face too big, then going for a free clinic consult and paying 50,000 krw or $50 for a copy of your x rays on kakao to then compare to b&a's of those who have had v line, may allow you to decide whether your jaw really needs contouring or not or whether you might try botox or weight loss instead if it is not your mandible. I found a b&a on the tlps instagram site and compared it to my x rays from regen. I cancelled my appointment with tlps as it is obvious from the comparison that I did not need v line which can cost between 6-10 million krw! I don't have a before I did chin reshaping x ray as my UK ps did not do any x rays before he reduced my chin.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> @SheOnlyLooks25 a friend passed on this youtube link of a 58 yo getting FL with fat grafting at JK hospital. May be another one to consider for your research. I think as they have in house hotel rooms it may be out of my budget ps price but it looks good.
> What I wonder is would the lady's after have looked the same with just fat grafting? I think I am the poster girl for using fat grafting for lifting,  filling, and rejuvenation without smas.
> 
> For those researching v lines, bring this page to show your ps the exact shape you want to match as much can be lost in translation.  I always bring A4 size photos as one never knows how much the translator is translating or what. I have a great friend I met in Korea to thank for the youtube link and page on v lines. By combining research info you get double the info in half the time. Now make a collage and compare your current chin to each of the photos to see what your chin is classified as. The most desirable are trapezoid or triangle (Fan Bing). I've got to compare my selfies now. Lol.



That face shape in photos of people’s chins - bottom row 2nd from the left is a witches chin!! Horrifying! So fake and awful. Time to jump out the window!!!


----------



## SweetPotato1996

MissOrange said:


> If you are debating whether you need v line or not, as you do not know if it is skin, soft tissues and muscles vs your jaw which is making your lower face too big, then going for a free clinic consult and paying 50,000 krw or $50 for a copy of your x rays on kakao to then compare to b&a's of those who have had v line, may allow you to decide whether your jaw really needs contouring or not or whether you might try botox or weight loss instead if it is not your mandible. I found a b&a on the tlps instagram site and compared it to my x rays from regen. I cancelled my appointment with tlps as it is obvious from the comparison that I did not need v line which can cost between 6-10 million krw! I don't have a before I did chin reshaping x ray as my UK ps did not do any x rays before he reduced my chin.



Unfortunately my jaw/mandible is way bigger than that . I have x-rays and a CT scan from my orthognathic surgery to compare to the x-rays from Korean clinics. My muscles are also kinda big. I will need a combination of mandible reduction/v-line and botox to make my face small. I always envy people with naturally small jaws who don't need to go through all that pain and trouble.


----------



## MissOrange

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Unfortunately my jaw/mandible is way bigger than that . I have x-rays and a CT scan from my orthognathic surgery to compare to the x-rays from Korean clinics. My muscles are also kinda big. I will need a combination of mandible reduction/v-line and botox to make my face small. I always envy people with naturally small jaws who don't need to go through all that pain and trouble.


Hi @SweetPotato1996, I am sorry to hear you have to go through surgery. When I look at befores of girls with large mandibles they end up looking more beautiful than girls who never have v line! So I have full confidence you will transform into a swan. Safe mandible/v line clinics are the face dental, regen, and eu dental. I have left off gng as feedback is it is expensive, hard to negotiate, takes very little off, gives a U shape vs v line.


----------



## MissOrange

For those healing with bruising here is my secret! Arnica cream and arnica pillules. I bought mine from eBay or amazon. If you cannot get ahold of arnica cream, put toothpaste over your bruises overnight. Don't ask me why it works but it does. Sunlight is also good on bruises.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

There is a magical product called Cearna Oc
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 umend for bruising but they will only sell to physicians. Have to find a way to get this by bribing a clinic.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @SweetPotato1996, I am sorry to hear you have to go through surgery. When I look at befores of girls with large mandibles they end up looking more beautiful than girls who never have v line! So I have full confidence you will transform into a swan. Safe mandible/v line clinics are the face dental, regen, and eu dental. I have left off gng as feedback is it is expensive, hard to negotiate, takes very little off, gives a U shape vs v line.


That's true!


----------



## chardonnaylane

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> There are several versions of SMAS. High SMAS is one version but no it is not VIP’s patented technique (probably too hard to patent a technique). I just think it is superior. VIP is my second choice if Prof Lee, Area 88 is too hard to see.



Have you any further info on VIP? I'm also in the hunt for an SMAS facelift pro in Korea


----------



## SweetPotato1996

MissOrange said:


> Hi @SweetPotato1996, I am sorry to hear you have to go through surgery. When I look at befores of girls with large mandibles they end up looking more beautiful than girls who never have v line! So I have full confidence you will transform into a swan. Safe mandible/v line clinics are the face dental, regen, and eu dental. I have left off gng as feedback is it is expensive, hard to negotiate, takes very little off, gives a U shape vs v line.



Thank you! I kind of understand what you mean, that is certainly true if the surgeon is skilled! Those clinics are all very good, but I really want to combine as many procedures as possible. I can't afford to go to Korea multiple times. Since I definitely plan on getting rhinoplasty and facial contouring together, I have been considering GNG (especially since I have functional issues with my nose as well). They also seem fairly good for eyes and forehead lifting, so I thought I could get them all done together.  Unfortunately, places like The Face Dental only do jaws.


----------



## Perceval

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Thank you! I kind of understand what you mean, that is certainly true if the surgeon is skilled! Those clinics are all very good, but I really want to combine as many procedures as possible. I can't afford to go to Korea multiple times. Since I definitely plan on getting rhinoplasty and facial contouring together, I have been considering GNG (especially since I have functional issues with my nose as well). They also seem fairly good for eyes and forehead lifting, so I thought I could get them all done together.  Unfortunately, places like The Face Dental only do jaws.


I think the Face Dental also does Mandible and Zygoma reduction as well.


----------



## SweetPotato1996

Perceval said:


> I think the Face Dental also does Mandible and Zygoma reduction as well.



Yeah but those are all facial contouring procedures. They don't do rhinoplasty or eyes. I don't mind spending a bit more money if I can get more procedures done together at one clinic.


----------



## Perceval

SweetPotato1996 said:


> Yeah but those are all facial contouring procedures. They don't do rhinoplasty or eyes. I don't mind spending a bit more money if I can get more procedures done together at one clinic.


Oh, whoops! Pardon me. I misread your sentence, I thought you said they only do two jaw. My bad.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on revision rhino specialists. Having crossed off Dr Seong at GNG for being too expensive at 18 million won for revision rib rhino or 13.5 million with use of photos, videos and 2 reviews to endorse GNG, and JW at 13 million reduced to 11 million with use of photos, I decided to look at positive PF reviews of other clinics for revision rhino. If you are consulting, then look up Dr Park at Baum, Dr Paik at PS101 and Dr Lee at View. No clinic should overcharge desperate foreigners who are caught in the revision rhino cycle. Remember there are plenty of clinics in Korea so it is a matter of doing further research to find a great rib rhino specialist whose clinic does not rip off foreigners!


----------



## MissOrange

Day 6 post full face prp fat graft and ulthera at mvp. Now I just need to keep my weight stable between 97 and 98 and hoping this is the final fat graft ever needed as I did not get prp at DA. Tried to do a korean kiss. Not sure if I did it right.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a summary of why MVP fat graft patients heal so fast. On post op days 1 and 2 I was given 10 minutes of light treatment to my face. This explained why when the bruises did appear on day 3 they were already yellow! Light is used when newborn babies are jaundiced and also speeds up the recovery of bruises from purple to yellow which normally takes 7-10 days! I was also given vitamin drips each day which I assume is vitamin K which helps coagulation and again reduce bruising. Drinking plenty of water also reduces swelling. However for every facial operation, swelling if any is the worst on day 3. For me this was when I headed to Incheon airport. Now this could potentially have caused a problem as I suddenly looked 8 years old and wearing a pink hoodie and trainers did not help! The BA counter check in lady said I did not look like my passport picture, ie that of a 50+ year old lady, although the photo was taken before I discovered Korea so I was technically in my 40s in the passport photo. If this happens to you just say you had surgery. This worked to get me to the immigration clearance section. Now quickly scan the queues for a young male officer and no females! Females are the worst for scrutinising other females! I scanned and saw female, female, female, oh no, then one young male! I rushed to join this queue. Phew it worked. He barely glanced at my passport photo and waved me through. Then on board the guy seated on my right asked me how old I was? I guess he figured I was a beaten up school kid! lol. Thank goodness the flight was 13 hours in an upright position which helped the swelling and by the time I landed I looked older than 8. I used ice packs on day 4 which is a no no for fat graft but I was impatient to get rid of the swelling. By day 5 the swelling was minimal and I continued to take arnica and apply arnica cream and the above post is the day 6 reveal. I keep this day 3 selfie as a reminder I got facial fat grafting as recovery was so quick!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Am


MissOrange said:


> Here is a summary of why MVP fat graft patients heal so fast. On post op days 1 and 2 I was given 10 minutes of light treatment to my face. This explained why when the bruises did appear on day 3 they were already yellow! Light is used when newborn babies are jaundiced and also speeds up the recovery of bruises from purple to yellow which normally takes 7-10 days! I was also given vitamin drips each day which I assume is vitamin K which helps coagulation and again reduce bruising. Drinking plenty of water also reduces swelling. However for every facial operation, swelling if any is the worst on day 3. For me this was when I headed to Incheon airport. Now this could potentially have caused a problem as I suddenly looked 8 years old and wearing a pink hoodie and trainers did not help! The BA counter check in lady said I did not look like my passport picture, ie that of a 50+ year old lady, although the photo was taken before I discovered Korea so I was technically in my 40s in the passport photo. If this happens to you just say you had surgery. This worked to get me to the immigration clearance section. Now quickly scan the queues for a young male officer and no females! Females are the worst for scrutinising other females! I scanned and saw female, female, female, oh no, then one young male! I rushed to join this queue. Phew it worked. He barely glanced at my passport photo and waved me through. Then on board the guy seated on my right asked me how old I was? I guess he figured I was a beaten up school kid! lol. Thank goodness the flight was 13 hours in an upright position which helped the swelling and by the time I landed I looked older than 8. I used ice packs on day 4 which is a no no for fat graft but I was impatient to get rid of the swelling. By day 5 the swelling was minimal and I continued to take arnica and apply arnica cream and the above post is the day 6 reveal. I keep this day 3 selfie as a reminder I got facial fat grafting as recovery was so quick!


You look amazing!


----------



## Allen5396

MissOrange said:


> Here is my summary of Regen. I paid 50,000 won or about $50 to be sent my x rays taken by regen to my kakao. I thought they looked okay until Dr Oh told me my posterior zygoma arches needed to be brought in 10 mms each on each side. He says he has devised a technique so there is no sagging by removing a cm from each maxilla and moving the zygoma medially. He would secure with a plate and screws, have 3 skin staples on the outside removed in a week and dissolvable sutures inside removed in 2 weeks and it would only take one hour with swelling down within a week. The consultant started at 10 million and said 8 million (with use of photos and paying 1 million deposit now). I suggested 6 but she said he couldn't do it for this but she checked and he would for 7 cash. He noted that my chin had been shaved on x ray and asked who did it as he would have done it differently. Here are my x rays. I thought my x rays looked ok but apparently my zygomas need reducing 1 cm on each side which would bring a 14.5 cm width to 12.5 cm CD size width!



gosh.. that is ridiculous.. why they taken money for that. that is not even a CD. just photo. How can it possible.


----------



## MissOrange

Allen5396 said:


> gosh.. that is ridiculous.. why they taken money for that. that is not even a CD. just photo. How can it possible.


@Allen5396 I am so glad you thought that. At first I thought the consultant ie price fixer said I could just have when I asked. Then she said 15,000 won so I took out 20,000 won and asked for change. Then she said no 50 not 15. When I went out to the reception area there was a notice on the counter with prices and all I could read in English was CD 20,000 as the highest price! I was called to see Dr Oh and outside his door I again raised why the kakao photos were 50,000 when a CD was 20,000. The consultant replied that CD is for your documents? I took a photo of the notice but had no one to translate the charges and deleted the photo when I got home. I should have saved it for the PF to translate.  Yes and I only received 3 images and not all the images that were taken. Oh well at least I didn't waste 7 million. The consultant was pushing for a deposit of 1 million. Then when I got back I looked up prices for zygoma at other clinics and they range from 4-6 million.

What I realised from going to regen and gng is the hard sell to get you to pay for major procedures when you are not deformed. Dr Oh did not have any of my x rays or photos on his screen but just talked to me with a mirror in front of me and showing other people's x rays and photos. Their zygomas were worse than mine.

At gng Dr Seong did not have any of my x rays on his screen save one photo which was not straight on but with my head tilted back so of course I had nostril show.

In my opinion they do not show you that actually you do not really need any surgery but instead make you feel defective like you need something fixing and urgently.

When I took selfies yesterday I thought my nose is fine. It most certainly was not a defective nose requiring 18 million won to fix! Gng left me with a very bad taste in my mouth as it gave me the clear impression they would do anything for money. Do not think clinics have your best interests at heart. Bring a strong friend who can say Stop! Hammer time! You are fine!

Credit goes to JW, BK and MVP who said no I did not need zygoma reduction.


----------



## MissOrange

Collage time! Okay here are photos of me in my pjs the day before my ulthera and full face fg at MVP last Monday. As you can see the forehead had lost the fat graft from DA, the cheeks look flat and sunken, the skin contour of my face is uneven and the chin wrinkly. I guess this means if you are going to get fat graft, ensure it is prp fat graft or you will repeat my journey of 3 regular fat grafts and then doing it properly with prp fat graft. The bottom left photo is yesterday day 6 and the bottom right day 2. Even the contour of my face seems smoother. Dr Seo rounded my forehead, smoothed the temple contour, recreated my cheeks and added to my chin. Done in the right hands, it actually sculpts your face for the better! Now fingers and toes crossed this prp lasts at least 2 years if not longer! And as you can see I did not need a 4th rhino for 18 million or zygoma reduction for 7 million. All I needed was prp fat grafting which is a lot cheaper and safer.


----------



## jsorchid

MissOrange said:


> Collage time! Okay here are photos of me in my pjs the day before my ulthera and full face fg at MVP last Monday. As you can see the forehead had lost the fat graft from DA, the cheeks look flat and sunken, the skin contour of my face is uneven and the chin wrinkly. I guess this means if you are going to get fat graft, ensure it is prp fat graft or you will repeat my journey of 3 regular fat grafts and then doing it properly with prp fat graft. The bottom left photo is yesterday day 6 and the bottom right day 2. Even the contour of my face seems smoother. Dr Seo rounded my forehead, smoothed the temple contour, recreated my cheeks and added to my chin. Done in the right hands, it actually sculpts your face for the better! Now fingers and toes crossed this prp lasts at least 2 years if not longer! And as you can see I did not need a 4th rhino for 18 million or zygoma reduction for 7 million. All I needed was prp fat grafting which is a lot cheaper and safer.


The amount of informations you provided here about your ps journey is priceless. Even the area of the donor fat graph is something I would have never considered. My abundant abdomen fat will will not be going to my face as the area fluctuate from day to night. If you can share where you stayed for the accommodation will be great as you seem to have great knowledge of the areas. I saw that you have written in Korean the areas and the amounts of fg used. You said you can’t read Korean but can you speak Korean? Did that help with Price negotiation? Do you think hair transplant can be done right after the fat graph of the forehead? Your bullhorn lift really good as that’s something I never even thought about, but I scar easily and since I am a little more darker skinned Korean, scars look more visible. I did see in RealSelf a lady who did tattoo on her surgery incision to blend into her skin. You look great! Another thing, do you get Botox to the 11 area? Mine never disappear all the way despite the injection but a little better.


----------



## MissOrange

jsorchid said:


> The amount of informations you provided here about your ps journey is priceless. Even the area of the donor fat graph is something I would have never considered. My abundant abdomen fat will will not be going to my face as the area fluctuate from day to night. If you can share where you stayed for the accommodation will be great as you seem to have great knowledge of the areas. I saw that you have written in Korean the areas and the amounts of fg used. You said you can’t read Korean but can you speak Korean? Did that help with Price negotiation? Do you think hair transplant can be done right after the fat graph of the forehead? Your bullhorn lift really good as that’s something I never even thought about, but I scar easily and since I am a little more darker skinned Korean, scars look more visible. I did see in RealSelf a lady who did tattoo on her surgery incision to blend into her skin. You look great! Another thing, do you get Botox to the 11 area? Mine never disappear all the way despite the injection but a little better.


Hi @jsorchid, 
I have stayed at the Gangnam art nouveau near gangnam metro for £65/night which has a kitchenette, laundry machine and sitting room and the California hotel for £46 per night b&b near Eunjo metro which has a bathtub. I liked the latter as I enjoyed eating fresh fruit for the breakfast that came with the room. They always had sliced apples and oranges or honeydew melon. And I am a bathtub person rather than a shower person at my tender age. There is a 24 hour restaurant just outside sinnonyheon metro where I ate all my meals.

The note with the amounts of fat graft was written by the staff at DA. I am taking beginner's korean so no way can write Korean like that! If you are fluent in Korean you may be able to blag local prices. One American Korean managed to get zygoma and v line for 8 million instead of the foreigner price of 10 million at Romian as she communicated in Korean.

I can't comment on when to do hair transplant but I am told it should be done after a facelift to hide the facelift scars. However as I do not need smas facelift yet, I could not wait until my 60s to get a frontal hair transplant. I think if you notice your hairline receding, get the transplant the sooner the better.

Yes botox is good for forehead wrinkles and crows feet.


----------



## MissOrange

I have decided that's it for plastic surgery. I shall try to maintain my weight at 97 lbs or a bmi of 18.3 which is the perfect Korean girl's weight and just play with filters.

My next wish is to be on korean tv and in the meantime shall carry on taking Saturday Korean classes in London.


----------



## MissOrange

I am reposting this kind poster's post on Korea's law on refunds of deposits. Do not be pressured into paying for expensive surgery or surgery you may not need. You can get your deposit refunded. It is better to do further research and use time, than to rush into surgery unprepared for all potential complications and its lifetime implications. One friend summarised rib rhino as likely to warp in the young and likely to absorb in the old. I guess I fit into the latter category.


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Day 6 post full face prp fat graft and ulthera at mvp. Now I just need to keep my weight stable between 97 and 98 and hoping this is the final fat graft ever needed as I did not get prp at DA. Tried to do a korean kiss. Not sure if I did it right.



Hi there!

I enjoyed reading about your journey.  The question I have is why did you opt for a different procedure on the lower portion of your face? Why not fat graft that area?


----------



## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I enjoyed reading about your journey.  The question I have is why did you opt for a different procedure on the lower portion of your face? Why not fat graft that area?


Hi @tigertrixie, I had fat graft all over my face, forehead, temples, upper lids, under eyes, cheeks, nasolabial folds, and chin. I can't believe we try so hard to get a small face but then fill it up with fat to look younger! lol. I felt my lower face was a bit saggy so I also tried ulthera as my skin is not loose enough for smas. The consultant at MVP had tried ulthera and her face looked tight as though she had a facelift but it was just ulthera! I have to wait 3 months to see if ulthera tightens my jowls. I want to look like I had a facelift too! It's not fair that other women in their 50s have had facelifts but I have been refused facelift as I am not ready! I guess I shall have to use noninvasive methods until I am told yes, my skin is saggy enough to do a smas facelift. That will be my next adventure!


----------



## heylo

MissOrange said:


> The consultant at MVP had tried ulthera and her face looked tight as though she had a facelift but it was just ulthera



Do they also use the Ultraformer in Korea (similar to Uthera)? It seems to give more aggressive results. Also how long did you have to wait after the fat grafting to do it?


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

heylo said:


> Do they also use the Ultraformer in Korea (similar to Uthera)? It seems to give more aggressive results. Also how long did you have to wait after the fat grafting to do it?


Yes Ultraformer is available in Korea more so than in US or Europe


----------



## MissOrange

heylo said:


> Do they also use the Ultraformer in Korea (similar to Uthera)? It seems to give more aggressive results. Also how long did you have to wait after the fat grafting to do it?


Hi @heylo, I had the ulthera done at the same time as fat grafting.


----------



## MissOrange

Tip for keloid scars: one injection of kenalog worked like magic and my bullhorn scar is now flat! I had tried 4 months of 2-3x daily application of kelocote gel with no real improvement. Thanks to friends on PF, I asked Miss Mills for kenalog injection at my 1 year postop check last month. I didn't think anything about it until one day I felt my scar and it was flat! It had worked in a matter of a few weeks. I would highly recommend kenalog injection for keloid scars, and get it done the sooner the better!


----------



## jsorchid

MissOrange said:


> Hi @tigertrixie, I had fat graft all over my face, forehead, temples, upper lids, under eyes, cheeks, nasolabial folds, and chin. I can't believe we try so hard to get a small face but then fill it up with fat to look younger! lol. I felt my lower face was a bit saggy so I also tried ulthera as my skin is not loose enough for smas. The consultant at MVP had tried ulthera and her face looked tight as though she had a facelift but it was just ulthera! I have to wait 3 months to see if ulthera tightens my jowls. I want to look like I had a facelift too! It's not fair that other women in their 50s have had facelifts but I have been refused facelift as I am not ready! I guess I shall have to use noninvasive methods until I am told yes, my skin is saggy enough to do a smas facelift. That will be my next adventure!


How much do MVP charge for the ulthera therapy? Is it a one time session or need multiple sessions?


----------



## MissOrange

jsorchid said:


> How much do MVP charge for the ulthera therapy? Is it a one time session or need multiple sessions?


Hi @jsorchid, it costs 2 million won. I am hoping it is just a one time session. Am waiting 3 months for the effects.


----------



## Gats

@MissOrange, can you post before/after of your scar? Did she do a lot of tiny injections across the length of the scar? 

Did they do any fat grafting to the jowls? I would guess not as adding volume to sagging area would make the problem even worse. Regarding ultherapy, how many days after fat graft did you get it and did they avoid areas you just got fat graft at? Thanks.


----------



## jsorchid

MissOrange said:


> Hi @jsorchid, it costs 2 million won. I am hoping it is just a one time session. Am waiting 3 months for the effects.


Thank you for the info... I am adding up the price, eye bag removal, fg, and now adding to ulthera therapy. I have been getting micro needling for the past few months at the interval of 4-6 weeks at a $100 a pop. I really like the texture of my skin since the treatments. But getting needling on my forehead really is very unpleasant. I am a believer in maintenance especially as we age.


----------



## eurasianbeauty

gazoo said:


> I've read this entire thread (took me 2 days! ), @MissOrange, and have to say your results are incredible! I don't think you were ever ugly, honestly it makes me sad to see you think you were. Your personality is truly the icing on the cake, as your openness with sharing your experiences and knowledge is inspiring to me. FWIW, I think your nose is perfect as it is. I'd never touch it again, just in case things go wrong. I don't think you will easily find a surgeon that will tell you, "NO - don't have more procedures!", as they're in the business of making money. So please don't base that or any decision on their opinions. I don't know you, yet based on the very good photos of multiple angles and different lighting, I don't think there's anything about your nose (or face really) that needs changing. You do look incredibly youthful, freakishly so! Thrilled for you, as you are very gracious and sweet, and deserve to feel good about yourself.
> 
> Also wanted to add, if you do the Kenalog shots for your keloid, be careful as too much may then depress the area. I had success with Kenalog shots on my c-section scar that had become a terrible gross worm in thickness. It flattened up completely, but then I wanted more shots, stupidly thinking it would improve even further and now it's a dent. It's not a huge dent, but it IS a dent, and since your scar is on your face I wanted to warn you, just in case. I had a series of shots three separate times, several weeks apart, and the third time is the time that it started to go inwards. Hope this helps! Kenalog shots will definitely smooth it over, but make sure you're dealing with a qualified injector. Good luck in your upcoming trip to SK and thank you for making this thread. It has been a pleasure to read about your journey and experiences.



Do you know where in Seoul to get the Kenalog shots?


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Hi @jsorchid, it costs 2 million won. I am hoping it is just a one time session. Am waiting 3 months for the effects.



Can’t wait to see your final results!


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> @MissOrange, can you post before/after of your scar? Did she do a lot of tiny injections across the length of the scar?
> 
> Did they do any fat grafting to the jowls? I would guess not as adding volume to sagging area would make the problem even worse. Regarding ultherapy, how many days after fat graft did you get it and did they avoid areas you just got fat graft at? Thanks.


Hi @Gats, Miss Mills did one deep injection to one end and 2 deep injections to the other end of the scar.  The middle of the scar right under my columella did not need kenalog as that was flat just the raised ends.

Dr Seo did the ulthera first and then fat graft under the same sedation. I guess he zapped areas along my cheek and jawline where he did not put fg.


----------



## MissOrange

eurasianbeauty said:


> Do you know where in Seoul to get the Kenalog shots?


Hi @eurasianbeauty I got mine in the uk and as kenalog is a standard steroid I should think any ps clinic in Seoul can offer this? I think in the states they charge $75.


----------



## MissOrange

jsorchid said:


> Thank you for the info... I am adding up the price, eye bag removal, fg, and now adding to ulthera therapy. I have been getting micro needling for the past few months at the interval of 4-6 weeks at a $100 a pop. I really like the texture of my skin since the treatments. But getting needling on my forehead really is very unpleasant. I am a believer in maintenance especially as we age.


Hi @jsorchid you are brave to do microneedling on your face. It looks painful. I used to apply icp chemical peel on my face a decade ago which was amazing to then peel off old skin and reveal pink baby soft skin but the company in Spain who manufactured it went bust! Haven't found a skin treatment yet to replace this.


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## gazoo

eurasianbeauty said:


> Do you know where in Seoul to get the Kenalog shots?


No, I'm sorry. I had them done in the US. My obstetrician referred me to a plastic surgeon to get them.


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> No, I'm sorry. I had them done in the US. My obstetrician referred me to a plastic surgeon to get them.


Thank you @gazoo!!! I owe you for my lovely flat bullhorn scar! Kenalog worked! Miss Mills muttered something about it had been 13 months so might not work but I still wanted to try and voila! So happy you brought it up! I would still be applying that sticky gooey kelocote gel into my 5th month of use with a raised keloid!


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## MissOrange

Day 12 postop fat transfer and ulthera. Using big hair as an accessory instead of 7-10 million won plate and screws zygoma reduction. Remember Farrah Fawcett's glorious mane. It made her more beautiful so don't cut your hair! My weight is 97.6 lbs at 5'1" today. I am trying to maintain my weight at 97 lbs instead of 95-96.


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## MissOrange

Here are the side profiles. See how no way did I need a 4th rib rhino at GNG! I can't believe they made me feel I needed to fix my nose as Seong said I had too much nostril show and lacked projection through Hazel the translator! You have to be strong when going to these 'free' consultations as they tire you out waiting 90 minutes for your appointment, then subject you to a lot of radiation taking umpteen x rays, then take photos as though you are being readied for theatre and then after 5 minutes with a surgeon telling you your nose needs fixing, you then spend the next 30 minutes 'negotiating' or rather dealing with hard selling price fixers thinking my goodness, a revision rhino surgeon says I need my nose fixing! No wonder I was in tears as I did not know if Ion had taken out the rib or if it had dissolved or if Seong was incorrect and I still had some rib in the bridge. Total emotional turmoil. One friend asked if this nose was after revision at GNG! Heck no! They just put up a really bad angle with my head tilted back and said your nose shows too much nostril and lacks projection. Everyone's nose would show too much nostril if you tilted your head back in a photo! I am so done with Korea and their hard selling overpriced clinics. Fingers crossed this mvp fat graft lasts and lasts and lasts. To think I have to go through a lot of 'free' consults when I need a smas in my 60s. If anyone finds a nice clinic with warm people and a competent surgeon for smas, let me know. I just can't cope with clinics that treat me like a kerching sign and not a human being.


----------



## gazoo

MissOrange said:


> Thank you @gazoo!!! I owe you for my lovely flat bullhorn scar! Kenalog worked! Miss Mills muttered something about it had been 13 months so might not work but I still wanted to try and voila! So happy you brought it up! I would still be applying that sticky gooey kelocote gel into my 5th month of use with a raised keloid!



Thrilled for you! Your recent pictures are so amazing. You look gorgeous! I showed my husband and asked him to guess your age and he thought 23 or 25. Lol!! He didn't believe your real age when I told him .


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## eurasianbeauty

gazoo said:


> No, I'm sorry. I had them done in the US. My obstetrician referred me to a plastic surgeon to get them.



Thank you for the quick answer. I will ask around in Seoul.


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> Thrilled for you! Your recent pictures are so amazing. You look gorgeous! I showed my husband and asked him to guess your age and he thought 23 or 25. Lol!! He didn't believe your real age when I told him .


You made my day yet again @gazoo! I asked my husband tonight how old did I look and he said, "28!" I replied, "wrong answer as I am trying to look 25!"


----------



## MissOrange

I went to korean class and we had a new teacher who looked 50s. She asked each adult student what we did for a living so I said how do you say retired in korean?  She said no, no retired is for 70-80 year olds not 18-19. I was perplexed then realised I was wearing fila trainers I bought in korea as everyone wore trainers there and Heidi Klum esmara light blue denim jeans with a pink hoodie and shirt. Oooohhh I thought wow 18 and not 25! Dang that's young. My classmate who knew me already helped me out and said housewife jubu.

But housewife can also get you in trouble. At my Vietnamese nail salon the manicurist said she thought I was a housewife spending my husband's money. This made me think saying housewife is frowned upon by working women so I said retired from 18 jobs I have had in my whole life. Lol. 

I need to reinvent an identity that matches an 18-25 year old face!

As an addendum gng has now been added to my blacklist for extortionate pricing, misleading patients, hardly noticeable v line results and poor rhino results (with the exception of Hong). The acid test is would I let them operate on my daughter and the answer is heck no!


----------



## GPR

Hi MissOragne! I read through this thread and I must say you look young and refreshing! I am wondering if you've ever done or considered buccal fat removal. I heard it is anti-"bulldog face" procedure, but some physicians believe it may cause gauntness. Could you share your opinions? TIA


----------



## MissOrange

GPR said:


> Hi MissOragne! I read through this thread and I must say you look young and refreshing! I am wondering if you've ever done or considered buccal fat removal. I heard it is anti-"bulldog face" procedure, but some physicians believe it may cause gauntness. Could you share your opinions? TIA


Hi @GPR, thank you for reading my thread! I had buccal fat removal a decade ago in hopes of making my face less round.  It made my lower face gauntness look more pronounced. In hindsight I should have left it in to balance the loss of fat in ones 40s.


----------



## GPR

MissOrange said:


> Hi @GPR, thank you for reading my thread! I had buccal fat removal a decade ago in hopes of making my face less round.  It made my lower face gauntness look more pronounced. In hindsight I should have left it in to balance the loss of fat in ones 40s.



Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I need to consider this procedure carefully. I weigh considerably more than you and I probably would remain at such weight. Off topic, but your daughter is ridiculously pretty. She inherited good traits!


----------



## MissOrange

GPR said:


> Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I need to consider this procedure carefully. I weigh considerably more than you and I probably would remain at such weight. Off topic, but your daughter is ridiculously pretty. She inherited good traits!


Hi @GPR as you weigh more than me then go ahead and get buccal fat removal to slim the face. I would recommend Fresh for facial liposuction as they did a good job on someone on pf who shared her b&a photos and gave her a sculpted v line look.


----------



## chpwhy

Hi missorange, I'm wondering if by day 7 your bruises have went away? I'm asking because my family disagrees with plastic surgery and I want to make sure to be in "decent" condition - almost no sign of bruises,  when I return home.  Thank you for sharing.


----------



## MissOrange

chpwhy said:


> Hi missorange, I'm wondering if by day 7 your bruises have went away? I'm asking because my family disagrees with plastic surgery and I want to make sure to be in "decent" condition - almost no sign of bruises,  when I return home.  Thank you for sharing.


Hi @chpwhy I was swollen and bruised on day 3 for my flight then I stayed home the next day and by day 5 was fine to go out again with mild yellowing around my eyes which were covered with foundation makeup. I would suggest you get daily light treatment for 10 minutes at the clinic, take arnica tablets and use arnica cream and get sun on your face too. This works to speed up recovery from bruising. The bruises on your thighs may take up to 2 weeks as I forgot to ask for light treatment on my donor thighs. If you are skinny, there may be more bruising on the thighs as the plastic surgeon struggles to extract fat. I had bruising on my left thigh and hardly any on my right thigh which is fatter. lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on my heroines Charlie's angels. Cheryl Ladd is 66 and Jaclyn Smith is 72. As my next goal is to looks 20s in my 60s, then 70s, I thought I would study their young vs older photos to see what can be done in the next decades. I think Cheryl would benefit from bullhorn liplift as her philtrum is long. Surprisingly Jaclyn's philtrum looks as it did in her 20s. Is that a scar I see under her nose? Has she had bullhorn liplift already? Both would benefit from fat graft to the upper lids. I am not sure why Cheryl's eyes are smaller in her 60s? They would both benefit from fat graft to round their foreheads and soften their lower faces.


----------



## gazoo

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on my heroines Charlie's angels. Cheryl Ladd is 66 and Jaclyn Smith is 72. As my next goal is to looks 20s in my 60s, then 70s, I thought I would study their young vs older photos to see what can be done in the next decades. I think Cheryl would benefit from bullhorn liplift as her philtrum is long. Surprisingly Jaclyn's philtrum looks as it did in her 20s. Is that a scar I see under her nose? Has she had bullhorn liplift already? Both would benefit from fat graft to the upper lids. I am not sure why Cheryl's eyes are smaller in her 60s? They would both benefit from fat graft to round their foreheads and soften their lower faces.



IMO, Cheryl has squinty small eyes from too much cheek filler. I see this on friends all the time. It's not a good look. 

I had the privilege of seeing/meeting Jaclyn in Beverly Hills a few years ago. She is STUNNING and looks naturally youthful. I'm sure she's had work done, but it's really good work. Her face moves naturally and she glows. It helps that she's uber nice. Dead sexy woman.


----------



## catelet

You look great @MissOrange! 
I think Cheryl Ladd was, and is one of the most beautiful women, ever. I would love to look that good at her age!!!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on my heroines Charlie's angels. Cheryl Ladd is 66 and Jaclyn Smith is 72. As my next goal is to looks 20s in my 60s, then 70s, I thought I would study their young vs older photos to see what can be done in the next decades. I think Cheryl would benefit from bullhorn liplift as her philtrum is long. Surprisingly Jaclyn's philtrum looks as it did in her 20s. Is that a scar I see under her nose? Has she had bullhorn liplift already? Both would benefit from fat graft to the upper lids. I am not sure why Cheryl's eyes are smaller in her 60s? They would both benefit from fat graft to round their foreheads and soften their lower faces.


Jaclyn is a very savvy entrepreneur whose net worth is $200m. She can afford to have those suggested procedures done daily but she knows when to stop. It also helps that she doesn't have SELF ESTEEM issues, no stories of being so ugly that she wasn't invited to the prom, she was the Prom Queen, I believe. She's just done enough cosmetic surgery and looks great and living life rather than flying to another country several times a year to 'fix' flaws.


----------



## J't'aime

You look absolutely amazing for your age. May i know what all treatments have you performed and in which clinics? 

Did read one of your posts about your fg at MVP. But don't you think that fg alone can keep you looking younger? As we age we tend to lose bone density & at 50 ones bone density is half of what it used to be in there 20's. Bone is the main supporting structure of your face(even whole body) so what i think is only fg can make you look stuffy and unnatural because the injected fat won't stay at a particular place due to weak bone structure during 50's. But you look really good so what's the secret apart from fg?


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @loves. The eyelid fg from mvp seems to like the heat and has swelled up nicely! MVP must have used prp fat graft as the lids have lasted 10 months since the april 2017 top up but I shall still have my top up in 2 weeks time as London is freezing and may shrink my fat graft again. Or maybe because in hot India, I have been drinking water around the clock to avoid headaches from dehydration in the heat and we know how fat graft loves water!
> 
> In India I have been having oil baths with rose petals and oil massages for the face and body. Maybe dry skin loves oil too for a smooth silky complexion and skin texture! I need to buy bath oils for London!
> 
> I have not looked into the plastic surgeons in India but they have to be good too as they created Aishwarya Rai's youth and beauty!
> 
> I think the best rejuvenating surgery for a bargain hunter like me has got to be fat graft with top ups to the upper eyelids! Second comes bullhorn lip lift. And both combined are much cheaper than a smas facelift.


Wow you were in my homeland. Hope you loved India and people around. Btw, Aishwarya Rai is naturally blessed with amazing facial features and bone structure and not to forget those envious blue green eyes. During her Miss World days she used to had improper teeth alignment and overall bad teeth so she did treatment for that and that's it. Rest other things are all rumours. Now Aishwarya is 44 but she still looks younger than her age(obviously due to botox and fillers) but no invasive surgery.


----------



## Gats

gazoo said:


> IMO, Cheryl has squinty small eyes from too much cheek filler. I see this on friends all the time. It's not a good look.



The overfilled cheek look is SO common in the USA, I've seen the look on enough cosmetic doctors themselves that I now believe the look isn't some mistake but a look they are actually going for.


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> IMO, Cheryl has squinty small eyes from too much cheek filler. I see this on friends all the time. It's not a good look.
> 
> I had the privilege of seeing/meeting Jaclyn in Beverly Hills a few years ago. She is STUNNING and looks naturally youthful. I'm sure she's had work done, but it's really good work. Her face moves naturally and she glows. It helps that she's uber nice. Dead sexy woman.


I can see that now @gazoo. Yes too much cheek filler.

Totally jealous you met Jaclyn Smith in real life! Wow! I want to look that good and natural at age 72! I remember Farrah Fawcett was coming to Fred Meyers in Oregon and I skipped classes in high school to rush over to see her but the traffic was so bad she had left by the time I got there. I was so gutted. I was a big Charlie's Angels fan as I am sure everyone in my generation were. Really sad how she died. When my daughters were old enough I got the original Charlie's angels DVDs and we sat and watched all of them as a family. They also watched the Bionic Woman and Wonder Woman. I swear all these shows inspired girls to be independent, determined, sassy, and smart!


----------



## MissOrange

J't'aime said:


> Wow you were in my homeland. Hope you loved India and people around. Btw, Aishwarya Rai is naturally blessed with amazing facial features and bone structure and not to forget those envious blue green eyes. During her Miss World days she used to had improper teeth alignment and overall bad teeth so she did treatment for that and that's it. Rest other things are all rumours. Now Aishwarya is 44 but she still looks younger than her age(obviously due to botox and fillers) but no invasive surgery.


Hi @J't'aime funny you should mention Aishwarya Rai as she is one of my beauty idols. I have seen all her movies. There was controversy as to whether her eyes really are blue green or brown and in earlier photos and a very early film her eyes are.....naturally brown. Between you and me, I think she wears coloured contacts now. I envy her nose! In fact I was staring at all the lovely big noses in the Indian ladies I saw on holiday. I suffer from the grass is greener syndrome as I have had a tiny nose all my life and think big noses like on Princess Diana, Aishwarya, Jun Ji Hyun make them even more beautiful.

Ugh when you mentioned bone density loss I thought, maybe I should not have got my chin shaved in 2016 as I need all the bone I can keep in my face to withstand osteoporosis in my 60s and beyond! I am facing up to 30% bone loss in very old age! I am fortunate to have wide zygoma bones which as long as I don't reduce, will hold up my face for now. lol. The tip of my nose being upturned gives the illusion of youth. Tip rhinoplasty is a good operation. And of course bullhorn liplift for a sagging philtrum reduces the philtrum back to 11-13 mms and everts the lip so no more restylane is required.

It was too funny when I was at Mvp last month, the manager suggested I stop putting fillers in my lips as my lips were so big! lol. I have not had restylane since 2016 as the liplift everted the upper lip! In Korea, I don't think they consider big lips as attractive as they do in the West.


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> The overfilled cheek look is SO common in the USA, I've seen the look on enough cosmetic doctors themselves that I now believe the look isn't some mistake but a look they are actually going for.


Hi @Gats, I think cheek dermal fillers is a dated procedure and look. Now with fat transfer, the entire face can look balanced but most plastic surgeons in America are not up to scratch with fat grafting with the exception of one in Texas and one in Chicago. The same can be said of UK plastic surgeons which is why I think it is worth flying to Korea where the best fat transfer plastic surgeons are. I am hoping with fat transfer alone I do not have to fork out 16 million won for a smas facelift in my 60s. In fact since I have had 2 fat transfers to my forehead and temples, 5 to my eyelids and 4 to my lower face, albeit most were not prp, I am really really hoping this is it and my fat stays put with a litre of water a day to hydrate my fat cells and by keeping the fat cells happy at a weight 2 lbs more than when injected. As I did not figure it out about water until recently. Phew.


----------



## MissOrange

In my days, Cindy Jackson was the icon for plastic surgery in the UK. I met her for a consultation many years ago and her advice was for me to change my glasses, change my hairstyle and have a lower face lift. I couldn't afford a facelift so just changed my glasses and hairstyle. She had people follow her surgical path and one wanted to look just like her! Cindy would fly to atlanta for jaw surgery, Hungary, UK etc. I even went to her cosmetic dentist Merv Druian who gave me porcelain veneers. So when I met someone who got fat graft at Fresh last year and then copied me with Dr Seo at MVP for his eyes this year, we met and have become competitive in a friendly way. He is older but now looks 28 and I am a few years younger and hopefully look 25. He had fat graft with Dr Hong at Fresh last year and I have had prp fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP last month. We are battling it out to see who is the best at fat grafting, Hong vs Seo! It is really nice to meet someone who has also benefited from the same eye surgeon that I had as we both had old eyes but now have young eyes.


----------



## J't'aime

Well i too have this syndrome but don't let it grow over you, i guess it's more of a body dysmorphic disorder. Kudos to you for managing yourself so well till now but it's my humble request that you should stop now because at 50 the body's endurance level drops(funny how i feel when i mention 50 because you don't look like a 50 yr old at all) and multiple surgeries will have adverse effects on your body. I have heard quite a few legit cases where women in their 40s & 50s became so obssessed with ps that they underwent multiple plastic surgeries in order to look young & beautiful that they met there eventual fate, they all died of multiple organ failure as their organs weren't able to withstand the trauma of multiple surgeries and anaesthesia(and mind you these surgeries were done at different intervals). I do not mean to scare you but it is what it is.

Take care [emoji257]


----------



## J't'aime

P.S: Aishwarya does not wear any sort of contacts. Trust me as i have seen her in person. As far her earlier pics are concerned then those are all not very crisp to tell the difference. And the biggest problem with light eyed people is they lack melanin in their irises so rayleigh scattering refracts the light differently in them as compared to those with dark coloured eyes. So light eyed people's eye look different in different lightings. And Aishwarya's nose is nothing in front of Shruti Haasan's(Actress) nose( btw she has underwent rhinoplasty and her doctor did such a stupendous job that her nose looks surreal).


----------



## MissOrange

Today's second post is on illegal brokers or middle men. This reminds me of the airbnb owner who lures guests by pretending to be a friendly korean owner but instead may be contacting your plastic surgery clinics to get a cut of your surgeries which would then jack up your quote. You do not need agencies or middle men or to hire translators who may also be middle men unbeknownst to you. Prices quoted for foreigners are now so high ie 16-18 million for facelift or facelift with necklift and rib rhino 12-16 million won that this may drive foreigners to seek these operations back home and leave a bad impression of korea.

 Here even korean police are trying to cracking down on these illegal brokers or middle men.


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> Today's second post is on illegal brokers or middle men. This reminds me of the airbnb owner who lures guests by pretending to be a friendly korean owner but instead may be contacting your plastic surgery clinics to get a cut of your surgeries which would then jack up your quote. You do not need agencies or middle men or to hire translators who may also be middle men unbeknownst to you. Prices quoted for foreigners are now so high ie 16-18 million for facelift or facelift with necklift and rib rhino 12-16 million won that this may drive foreigners to seek these operations back home and leave a bad impression of korea.
> 
> Here even korean police are trying to cracking down on these illegal brokers or middle men.


This is so true & thank you so much for sharing this with us. [emoji5]


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Today's second post is on illegal brokers or middle men. This reminds me of the airbnb owner who lures guests by pretending to be a friendly korean owner but instead may be contacting your plastic surgery clinics to get a cut of your surgeries which would then jack up your quote.



We just witnessed that on this forum, it was pretty slickly done. I sensed something was off though when she reported the host offered to drive her around to clinics, no real airbnb host is going to chauffeur you around a city unless they are getting something out of it.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Gats, I think cheek dermal fillers is a dated procedure and look. Now with fat transfer, the entire face can look balanced but most plastic surgeons in America are not up to scratch with fat grafting with the exception of one in Texas and one in Chicago. The same can be said of UK plastic surgeons which is why I think it is worth flying to Korea where the best fat transfer plastic surgeons are. I am hoping with fat transfer alone I do not have to fork out 16 million won for a smas facelift in my 60s. In fact since I have had 2 fat transfers to my forehead and temples, 5 to my eyelids and 4 to my lower face, albeit most were not prp, I am really really hoping this is it and my fat stays put with a litre of water a day to hydrate my fat cells and by keeping the fat cells happy at a weight 2 lbs more than when injected. As I did not figure it out about water until recently. Phew.


Speaking about overfilled cheeks - if I can have Kris Jenner's divine cheeks, yes please.  Kris 62, Mom Mary Beth 83 and Kim, amazing genes to start with before they had their work done.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Speaking about overfilled cheeks - if I can have Kris Jenner's divine cheeks, yes please.  Kris 62, Mom Mary Beth 83 and Kim, amazing genes to start with before they had their work done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4000540


I mean check out the 83 yr old mum.  She's my inspiration.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> I mean check out the 83 yr old mum.  She's my inspiration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4000542


Kris' nose and her mom's nose are shrinking for surgery though!


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Kris' nose and her mom's nose are shrinking for surgery though!


I would want to see their actual photos without photoshop.


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## MissOrange

.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on hotel tax refunds! Yes! Hotels should be refunding your korean tax! Like I did not know this and stayed at one of the hotels on this list! Now you know, make sure you ask for your hotel tax refund as they sure won't tell you when you hand in your foreign passport at check in!!

https://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/ACM/AC_ENG_4_2.jsp


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## Perceval

Aww, man! Sucks to read that GNG has given you and others a bad experience. 

I'll be doing some more research on other clinics. Thank you for sharing this. This thread is helpful as always.


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## catelet

I had no idea one could get a tax refund from a hotel. Next time I'll know! Thanks @MissOrange.


----------



## Jexxi Suen

MissOrange said:


> @Allen5396 I am so glad you thought that. At first I thought the consultant ie price fixer said I could just have when I asked. Then she said 15,000 won so I took out 20,000 won and asked for change. Then she said no 50 not 15. When I went out to the reception area there was a notice on the counter with prices and all I could read in English was CD 20,000 as the highest price! I was called to see Dr Oh and outside his door I again raised why the kakao photos were 50,000 when a CD was 20,000. The consultant replied that CD is for your documents? I took a photo of the notice but had no one to translate the charges and deleted the photo when I got home. I should have saved it for the PF to translate.  Yes and I only received 3 images and not all the images that were taken. Oh well at least I didn't waste 7 million. The consultant was pushing for a deposit of 1 million. Then when I got back I looked up prices for zygoma at other clinics and they range from 4-6 million.
> 
> What I realised from going to regen and gng is the hard sell to get you to pay for major procedures when you are not deformed. Dr Oh did not have any of my x rays or photos on his screen but just talked to me with a mirror in front of me and showing other people's x rays and photos. Their zygomas were worse than mine.
> 
> At gng Dr Seong did not have any of my x rays on his screen save one photo which was not straight on but with my head tilted back so of course I had nostril show.
> 
> In my opinion they do not show you that actually you do not really need any surgery but instead make you feel defective like you need something fixing and urgently.
> 
> When I took selfies yesterday I thought my nose is fine. It most certainly was not a defective nose requiring 18 million won to fix! Gng left me with a very bad taste in my mouth as it gave me the clear impression they would do anything for money. Do not think clinics have your best interests at heart. Bring a strong friend who can say Stop! Hammer time! You are fine!
> 
> Credit goes to JW, BK and MVP who said no I did not need zygoma reduction.


What happened??? where did you do your surgery from??? any bad thing happened due to surgery?


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on who does good bullhorn lip lifts. My impression of korea is that they are unlikely to do bullhorn liplift for fear of scarring, and you may end up getting vermillion, ie a bait and switch on the day of the op! I found this clinic and Maggie's review of her bullhorn liplift by Dr Osuch in Warsaw. She paid £790 and others who have left reviews on rs quote £1k. This is a lot cheaper than my £2,450 paid to Miss Mills in the uk so if you are on a ps budget, have a look at Maggie's youtube clip on the clinic site. I hear that she had to push him to trim 9 mms as he is more conservative. I would suggest pushing to achieve a 11-13 mm philtrum.

http://drosuch.pl/en/bullhorn-lip-lift/


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on who does good bullhorn lip lifts. My impression of korea is that they are unlikely to do bullhorn liplift for fear of scarring, and you may end up getting vermillion, ie a bait and switch on the day of the op! I found this clinic and Maggie's review of her bullhorn liplift by Dr Osuch in Warsaw. She paid £790 and others who have left reviews on rs quote £1k. This is a lot cheaper than my £2,450 paid to Miss Mills in the uk so if you are on a ps budget, have a look at Maggie's youtube clip on the clinic site. I hear that she had to push him to trim 9 mms as he is more conservative. I would suggest pushing to achieve a 11-13 mm philtrum.
> 
> http://drosuch.pl/en/bullhorn-lip-lift/



I've been considering Dr Osuch for a while, or Dr Mascaro in the US, but got sidetracked and duped into doing the Korean vermillion border lip lift, D'oh!

At such a low price, I would follow up and get Osuch to fix my Philtrum (currently 15-16cm), but now I gotta take into consideration of the possible long recovery & visibility of the bullhorn lift, because I can only wear a surgical mask for so long before my colleagues suspect something fishy about my feigned sickness.

For now, I'll just have to try emulate Angelina Jolie and lift up my Philtrum by putting on a permanent trout pout smile (which is equally bad for my nasolabial folds, post-FG).  

Argh!  Just can't win it all in plastic surgery.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Hey what about Miguel Mascaro, Delray Beach, FL? I posted his amazing stitching earlier on this thread.
Also love Golden View, Seoul. I got the clinic off PF.  I think I would like their partial bullhorn. I checked out Hyundai and turned off because the girls like mouth corner lift, which I also want but they turn into the dreaded Joker Smile (from Batman) whereas Miguel Mascaro only does a very slight mouth corner lift which is nothing like that, check out the photo.  Worse ones are by Anoe Clinic, Seoul


----------



## missy_sana

Sigh!
<sulky trout pout>


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Finally have a look at MVP.  They have restrained their corner mouth lip so not so bad but the bullhorns are great.


----------



## missy_sana

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Finally have a look at MVP.  They have restrained their corner mouth lip so not so bad but the bullhorns are great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4002566



Bullhorns???  What are you talking about??  Because MissOrange and I sure didn't get that there.

I don't know how much recovery time those example lip models had or whether they had lip filler in addition to lip corner surgery, but my upper lip vermillion border definitely does not look as flawless, symmetrical and plump as that, 5 months post-op and after a laser treatment to reduce the scarring.  
I couldn't get away with wearing such a natural lip as those models, as I need a much bolder lip colour to disguise the scarring.

Photoshop, perhaps?


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Bullhorns???  What are you talking about??  Because MissOrange and I sure didn't get that there.
> 
> I don't know how much recovery time those example lip models had or whether they had lip filler in addition to lip corner surgery, but my upper lip vermillion border definitely does not look as flawless, symmetrical and plump as that, 5 months post-op and after a laser treatment to reduce the scarring.
> I couldn't get away with wearing such a natural lip as those models, as I need a much bolder lip colour to disguise the scarring.
> 
> Photoshop, perhaps?


That's why I picked MVP for bullhorn liplift @missy_sana like you! lol. I forgot the cardinal rule. Check with a past patient and then you forgot too! lol. Hopefully readers will remember the cardinal rule in ps is always do your research and check with a real past patient to see what happened and if they are happy or not and why and check back with them a year post surgery. It's like tripadvisor. I always check the reviews before I book a hotel now. Even if it means spending hours reading pages and pages of reviews on each hotel although to save time I just read the negatives lol. And now that I know there are shills (fake members posting fake reviews) on pf it is crucial you find real patients.


----------



## MissOrange

@missy_sana I was worried about the white scar line around my vermillion border but actually that has now disappeared. I am 20 months out so not sure when it happened as I have been more preoccupied with my bullhorn scar. Ugh a friend in London said it was more noticeable but I think that is because it is still white so foundation does not absorb into a scar. Fingers crossed the white bullhorn scar turns pink and blends in as the vermillion scar now has. The bullhorn scar is 14 months out. Also as your philtrum is 15-16 you can overdraw lip liner by a few mms and then fill in with red lipstick to give the illusion of a 13 mm philtrum. I did that before I had liplifts to see what it would look like.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on liposuction. Having met a lovely Indonesian in 2016 who had an amazing lipo result to her tummy and thighs at Ruby, I would recommend you look into Ruby. I have had 2 types of liposuction, traditional liposuction to my tummy and inner thighs and vaser liposuction to the same 2 years later, both in the UK by Dr Maurizio Viel over a decade ago before I discovered walking exercise. The traditional lipo gave me a 6 pack immediately postop and I could see the results instantly. The vaser lipo left me swollen full of fluids for ages so I looked bigger postop! Hands down I would recommend traditional liposuction over vaser. Or better yet change your lifestyle and introduce walking and stairs and change your diet to add salmon for meals and fresh fruit as snacks.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's second post is on korean plastic surgery board certification. Yep you are supposed to check before you hand over your dosh! Lol. I saw Dr Seo's board certificate on the wall in the mvp consulting room. I have only now checked on the www.prskorea.co.kr website. Phew he is there. It will give you added reassurance especially when entrusting your face to a surgeon half way across the globe!

OCD me then looked up more and more plastic surgeons and was shocked to see that Regen's Dr Oh comes up as suspended? Does that mean he did not pay his annual fee or something more serious? I had Dr Oh on my list for the best ps for zygoma reduction so would love to know why this has happened. Anyone  who speaks korean and can call prskorea, can you do more investigation?


----------



## missy_sana

Yeah, I resort to overdrawing a higher lip line, and I've been searching for long-lasting kiss-proof formulations that don't smudge, transfer, dry out or flake off when I eat, drink and eventually partake in <ahem!> extra curricular activities.
I've been smooching on the back of my hand to test out lippies, because I still feel cautious and self-conscious about dating again, post-op.  
Any recommendations welcome on anyone's current favourite lippie!  Preferably not high-end brand or discontinued products, please.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on liposuction. Having met a lovely Indonesian in 2016 who had an amazing lipo result to her tummy and thighs at Ruby, I would recommend you look into Ruby. I have had 2 types of liposuction, traditional liposuction to my tummy and inner thighs and vaser liposuction to the same 2 years later, both in the UK by Dr Maurizio Viel over a decade ago before I discovered walking exercise. The traditional lipo gave me a 6 pack immediately postop and I could see the results instantly. The vaser lipo left me swollen full of fluids for ages so I looked bigger postop! Hands down I would recommend traditional liposuction over vaser. Or better yet change your lifestyle and introduce walking and stairs and change your diet to add salmon for meals and fresh fruit as snacks.



Awww, that sucks!  (excuse the pun) Because I thought vaser lipo might be more effective in melting the harder-to reach fat first than traditional lipo.  Which part of the body did you have the vaser, @MissOrange ?  And how long did the swelling/fluid drainage take to go away and reveal the promising results?


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Awww, that sucks!  (excuse the pun) Because I thought vaser lipo might be more effective in melting the harder-to reach fat first than traditional lipo.  Which part of the body did you have the vaser, @MissOrange ?  And how long did the swelling/fluid drainage take to go away and reveal the promising results?


Hi @missy_sana, I had it in the same places as traditional, ie tummy and inner thighs. I guess I just ate back my fat in 2 years lol. It took weeks as I was told to wait for the body to absorb all the fluid that was put in!!! I then have no memory of when it disappeared. lol. That made me think traditional was better as soon as I got home, I took off the corset and looked like a ballet dancer with a 6 pack and muscle thin thighs, ie not an ounce of fat left! lol. But after spending £1000s I thought I cannot afford £3-4000 every 2 years for lipo so discovered walking exercise and stairs give me a natural and free brazilian butt lift, flat tummy and thin thighs. I was just told that nowadays it is tumescent lipo. I have no idea what that is but worth looking into also. I mentioned Ruby as the lady wanted dramatic body lipo and many clinics refused but Ruby obliged and did a great job.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 19 and the prp full face fg with Dr Seo at MVP is holding up nicely and I have been really good at maintaining my weight at 2 lbs above when he injected or today at 98.4 lbs. It is my first time with prp in the full face fat graft so am hoping it lasts longer than the DA regular fg. I made one booboo by going to a sauna earlier this week (not allowed saunas for 30 days post) but have continued to drink lots of water daily. Today is the Korean embassy seollal banquet dinner in London so I bet my face balloons as I pig out big time! lol. It really is hard work to keep your weight at exactly 2 lbs above fat graft weight and I know if I gain too much I am looking at balloon face and if I lose too much sag face. When you opt for full face fat graft you have to do your daily homework.


----------



## MissOrange

When you end up looking 23, you notice weird things happening. At the korean embassy dinner they thought I was 23 so I asked why? One lady in her 30s said it was because I had no wrinkles. Hm I never thought about that. Then it felt like a freaky game like come this way, step right up, come and see the almost 52 years old lady who looks 23. You won't believe your eyes. You can even touch her to see she is real. Like a circus freakshow as a guy then nudged a female embassy assistant and said guess her age and then I saw her face go into shock as he revealed my age. I thought to myself, I don't like this look of shock when people see me. 

Then I went to my London korean class yesterday and the new teacher in her 50s still had not clocked I was her age so when we were learning numbers, dobs, etc. I said I was 51. It took a while for her to process as she gave me the korean for this number and then it twigged. Her face changed. That look of shock. Wow like shock is when people see a horror film, a ghost, but now it is when they look at me. So I quickly helped her mind process this by saying I went to korea for ps, they are the best. She then let out a huge roar of laughter. Oh dear I thought. Her laughter was so infectious we all laughed in the classroom. She replied oh yes, yes, Korea is the best. I guess I was laughing with the classroom and teacher but thought to myself, I need to never tell people my age as I don't like the reaction.

This becomes a problem as my daughters are between 20 and 23 so in effect I look the same age as my eldest daughter and not many 23 year olds have children. Hmm. I can't lie and say I have no children. Yet how do I deal with this new 23 year old identity? I can say I am a college student as technically I am attending a community college to learn korean. It gets very confusing. So when you decide to go from 40s-60s to 20s just remember you have to somehow forget your chronological age and never tell strangers this, else you go from young and pretty to old and freak in their eyes. Sigh.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on whether mixed race ladies are more beautiful. Here is an article looking into this. https://m.blog.naver.com/artprs/110137780006
This surgeon also has a programme on his blog that allows you to upload your photo to analyse your beauty! Does that mean we should be trying to get ps to mix our races? Interesting. We often think of mixed race children as beautiful. Could it be they are more beautiful? Does that mean my mixed race daughters are more beautiful than I can be? Well you have seen a photo of my eldest daughter who inherited Western bones for a model height and Asian looks for a small face.

Here are pure race photos too. What do you think? Is that why Asians are getting des and a more Western nose to mix race looks?


----------



## missy_sana

Hey @MissOrange , I can totally relate to the age issue, which is a problem for me too, as I try to look and act much younger than my age.

 I often get asked my age by younger guys, and I usually ignore the question as if I didn't hear/see it and quickly steer to another topic. If they are persistent, i just give an ambiguous answer or boldly lie and quickly change topic so they don't dwell on it.  Otherwise, I drop these guys if my real/fabricated age is a real issue for them.

You could be ambiguous and creative with your age and children when talking to new friends and acquaintances, like a classic "A lady never reveals her age", or "yes, I have two daughters and I treat them like my sisters", "my daughters are probably younger/older than your own children" (but don't specify ages, just quickly change topic).

You can even ask how to translate these creative phrases in Korean. 

Maybe even leave people guessing whether you married a much older man, your daughters were adopted or brought on from another marriage.

 If there's the few people who insist on you revealing your age and plastic surgery explanation, then assess the circumstances, e.g. For official identification purposes.

In many instances, people will have to tell little white lies as a social etiquette and to maintain flow of pleasantries and conversation.  Don't make your age the focal point of the event that encourages whispers behind your back.  Mere passing strangers don't have to know the real exact details, so who cares if you lie to them!

Just make sure you reveal your real identity to people who really matter and will not judge you for having PS.

Maybe it's time to find a different set of [younger] friends. :-p


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Hey @MissOrange , I can totally relate to the age issue, which is a problem for me too, as I try to look and act much younger than my age.
> 
> I often get asked my age by younger guys, and I usually ignore the question as if I didn't hear/see it and quickly steer to another topic. If they are persistent, i just give an ambiguous answer or boldly lie and quickly change topic so they don't dwell on it.  Otherwise, I drop these guys if my real/fabricated age is a real issue for them.
> 
> You could be ambiguous and creative with your age and children when talking to new friends and acquaintances, like a classic "A lady never reveals her age", or "yes, I have two daughters and I treat them like my sisters", "my daughters are probably younger/older than your own children" (but don't specify ages, just quickly change topic).
> 
> You can even ask how to translate these creative phrases in Korean.
> 
> Maybe even leave people guessing whether you married a much older man, your daughters were adopted or brought on from another marriage.
> 
> If there's the few people who insist on you revealing your age and plastic surgery explanation, then assess the circumstances, e.g. For official identification purposes.
> 
> In many instances, people will have to tell little white lies as a social etiquette and to maintain flow of pleasantries and conversation.  Don't make your age the focal point of the event that encourages whispers behind your back.  Mere passing strangers don't have to know the real exact details, so who cares if you lie to them!
> 
> Just make sure you reveal your real identity to people who really matter and will not judge you for having PS.
> 
> Maybe it's time to find a different set of [younger] friends. :-p


Hi @ missy_sana oh thank you for this. I  really uncomfortable about telling a lie E em a white lie


missy_sana said:


> Hey @MissOrange , I can totally relate to the age issue, which is a problem for me too, as I try to look and act much younger than my age.
> 
> I often get asked my age by younger guys, and I usually ignore the question as if I didn't hear/see it and quickly steer to another topic. If they are persistent, i just give an ambiguous answer or boldly lie and quickly change topic so they don't dwell on it.  Otherwise, I drop these guys if my real/fabricated age is a real issue for them.
> 
> You could be ambiguous and creative with your age and children when talking to new friends and acquaintances, like a classic "A lady never reveals her age", or "yes, I have two daughters and I treat them like my sisters", "my daughters are probably younger/older than your own children" (but don't specify ages, just quickly change topic).
> 
> You can even ask how to translate these creative phrases in Korean.
> 
> Maybe even leave people guessing whether you married a much older man, your daughters were adopted or brought on from another marriage.
> 
> If there's the few people who insist on you revealing your age and plastic surgery explanation, then assess the circumstances, e.g. For official identification purposes.
> 
> In many instances, people will have to tell little white lies as a social etiquette and to maintain flow of pleasantries and conversation.  Don't make your age the focal point of the event that encourages whispers behind your back.  Mere passing strangers don't have to know the real exact details, so who cares if you lie to them!
> 
> Just make sure you reveal your real identity to people who really matter and will not judge you for having PS.
> 
> Maybe it's time to find a different set of [younger] friends. :-p


Hi @missy_sana thank you for totally understanding this and your useful suggestions.  My dilemma is I can't tell a lie even a white lie but I am going to have to as you say be vague. And if they ask about children I shall say yes and if they ask how old I shall say they are young. This is the truth as they are young compared to my age. Lol. But yes I like that with strangers they don't need to know our true ages just our close friends. I often get I must have had children when I was really young. I think as you say I can let them think I am a young wife or even second wife.  Lol. It is good to know I am not alone in this conundrum. Thank you.


----------



## missy_sana

You're welcome, @MissOrange !

Every one of us tells little white lies to preserve social etiquette and keeping up appearances, so don't feel bad about it.

I remember a movie dialogue when I was young, watching a movie (called "Splash"?), where a mermaid was adjusting to life on land and had to learn about social etiquette in humans.  Her human boyfriend rebuked her for the way she greeted an acquaintance, and he explained that if someone asked her "How are you?", that she shouldn't reply "Oh, I'm having an awful week, blah, blah, blah, and my cat died", then she asked him so how she should really reply.  He said, "you simply reply, "oh I'm fine, thanks, and how are you?".  Then the mermaid got so frustrated with this distortion of reality in him and in humans that she let out a piercing ultrasonic scream，broke a few wine glasses in the restaurant they were in, and then she stormed off.  At least, that's what I remember, years ago....

Another tactic...

Them: "How old are you?"
You: "Well, how old do I look?"
Them: [guesses your age]
You:  [smiling & nodding your head as if they guessed correctly or near enough]. "Wooo!  Thank you!  So how old are YOU?"
...then proceed to make their answer the focal point of topic for discussion, and perhaps in turn, make them squeamish and self-conscious like how you felt to reveal your real age.


----------



## gazoo

I wouldn't lie about my age. Don't answer if you don't want to, but it's incredible that you look so young and any shocked reactions should be perceived as flattering. It's all in you look at things. You look INCREDIBLE! Own it, baby. You've worked hard for the way you look. I daresay their expressions of shock and awe are the result of their minds doing a quick inventory on how much more aged other people your age look, or even how much older they themselves look compared to you. I wouldn't give it a moment's thought.

And as to if mixed races are more beautiful, I've always heard it said that that's a given and I myself have always found mixed race people more striking and beautiful.


----------



## missy_sana

Well, Ok, yeah, that's another way of dealing with the age issue: own it and work it baby like a darling instagrammer [handing out business cards and social media links to everyone as you promote and gush about your plastic surgeons].

Heck, you could even wear a custom design t-shirt with a cheeky statement to flaunt your age without needing to say it aloud.  
Something like "Born 1966, reborn 1996".


----------



## Gats

I'm sorry MissOrange you felt uncomfortable by their reaction. You're in a unique position for sure, they could make a reality show about your life, the Mom who looks like her daughters!  I would expect a wide range of reactions to meeting someone who looks 30 years younger as it takes people by surprise, they don't know how to react. While the teacher may have laughed initially, I would not be surprised to see her pull you aside one day after class to ask who your doctors were. 

I agree about not lying about your age, once you tell one lie you'll find yourself needing to tell one lie after another to keep it up. You can just decline to state, you don't have to answer how old you are or explain why you look so young if you don't want to. BTW your looks are not all due to plastic surgery, you wouldn't look like you do if you had been a sun worshiper or smoked most of your life for example. So feel proud of what you have achieved, make no mistake everyone wishes they can be so lucky.


----------



## missy_sana

Maybe that beauty assessing programme bases it's results on the golden ratio measurements, rather than on race?  Because it gave a pure race (but probably plastic) Korean girl and a Caucasian girl both perfect scores, whereas Angelababy is beautifully mixed race but got a lower score.


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> When you end up looking 23, you notice weird things happening. At the korean embassy dinner they thought I was 23 so I asked why? One lady in her 30s said it was because I had no wrinkles. Hm I never thought about that. Then it felt like a freaky game like come this way, step right up, come and see the almost 52 years old lady who looks 23. You won't believe your eyes. You can even touch her to see she is real. Like a circus freakshow as a guy then nudged a female embassy assistant and said guess her age and then I saw her face go into shock as he revealed my age. I thought to myself, I don't like this look of shock when people see me.
> 
> Then I went to my London korean class yesterday and the new teacher in her 50s still had not clocked I was her age so when we were learning numbers, dobs, etc. I said I was 51. It took a while for her to process as she gave me the korean for this number and then it twigged. Her face changed. That look of shock. Wow like shock is when people see a horror film, a ghost, but now it is when they look at me. *So I quickly helped her mind process this by saying I went to korea for ps, they are the best.* *She then let out a huge roar of laughter. Oh dear I thought. Her laughter was so infectious we all laughed in the classroom.* She replied oh yes, yes, Korea is the best. I guess I was laughing with the classroom and teacher but thought to myself, I need to never tell people my age as I don't like the reaction.
> 
> This becomes a problem as my daughters are between 20 and 23 so in effect I look the same age as my eldest daughter and not many 23 year olds have children. Hmm. I can't lie and say I have no children. Yet how do I deal with this new 23 year old identity? I can say I am a college student as technically I am attending a community college to learn korean. It gets very confusing. So when you decide to go from 40s-60s to 20s just remember you have to somehow forget your chronological age and never tell strangers this, else you go from young and pretty to old and freak in their eyes. Sigh.



She let out a roar of laughter and the whole class started laughing after you told them you had PS?       You make it sound like they were all laughing at you for having PS like you were some freaky science experiment or something.    Usually when strangers ask how old you are it's because they think you're young.   I play badminton with my parents once a week and one time this lady kept on asking my Mom how old I was and would not let it go.   My Mom finally just said, "She's over 30." and got a shocked reaction of "Oh really?!", but that shut her up and she was satisfied with that answer.      Afterward, I thought that's a great answer and I'll use the same answer even after I'm over 40 because "over 30" is still correct even if you're over 50 etc.       So you could use that as an answer!


----------



## catelet

I think that it's rude to ask someone's age--at least it is in American culture. I also wouldn't lie. I would simply say, "why do you ask?, then not answer them. They'll feel stupid for asking if they have any manners at all. Someone who doesn't have manners, deserves no answer plain and simple. I wouldn't explain or share my children's ages that is also none of their business. I don't answer rude people.


----------



## Leelala

MissOrange said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.
> 
> 1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!
> 
> 2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.
> 
> 3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.
> 
> 4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.
> 
> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.
> 
> Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!


why would you advise against gng?


----------



## Leelala

dannythedragon said:


> Thanks @MissOrange. I had FG at Fresh recently. It's a bit early to say but I think the results should be good. Having read your posts I am prepared to return a second and maybe a 3rd time and put on a few lbs to get the full benefit. I'm planning to do botox here (150k KWN) but can you please recommend someone in London for botox because to travel to SK just for that probably doesn't make sense.


how is your fat graft holding up? any updates?


----------



## MissOrange

Leelala said:


> why would you advise against gng?


Hi @Leelala because gng overpriced @mia1992 for rib rhino, did not listen to her requests for what she wanted done to her nose, left her with an over built up big manly nose with wide base and bulbous tip and then she had to be restitched a week later and another patient has his nose stitches 'bust open' as he described it @pacd. She is deeply unhappy with this huge nose which does not fit her small face and she lost her beautiful feminine ski sloped bridge. She saved for 3 years and is devastated. Dr Seong also did not warn her that rib may warp or absorb. She left Korea hating her experience and vowing never to return to Korea. She flew from Canada! I am so mad at GNG for what happened to her.

Gng also did marginal v lines in 2 girls I met in Korea.  One had only a wee piece of bone taken from one side of her jaw.  She complained but they refused to do the "v line" again and she looks no different b+a and they kept all of her money so misled her and the other is left with an asymmetric jaw on ct scan as they took a teeny piece from one side and a different size piece from the other for 9 million won, again  too much money.

For me they showed one image of me with my head tilted back (which they asked me to do and then took a photo before the consultation) and said too much nostrils showing and need more projection and wanted 18 million won or 13.5 million if I agreed to promote gng in videos, pictures and 2 reviews. Dr Seong an ENT doc also did not examine inside my nose?! I thought what the bleep? I am not an idiot. Of course there is nostril show when you take a photo with my head tilted back. Where are the scans you took and the other images? Where is a morph? I found gng very unethical, misleading and overpriced.  Also there were bad gng rhino photo results posted on soyoung and comments from other unhappy Chinese gng patients. I used google translate and have attached.
p
p


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## MissOrange

Today's post is a must read for anyone contemplating rhinoplasty with rib or silicone. Warning: graphic images! As you can see the rib cartilage graft is quite thick so adding rib to the bridge may increase height by more than you expected. Also you can see how coarse the operation is so asking for mm changes is nigh impossible. Dr Seong at GNG felt my nose and said all the rib in the bridge had gone and was either taken out by my surgeon or completely dissolved. Hello? Is there a problem with what he just said? Yet Dr Seong wanted to put more rib in my nose for $18,000 for it to absorb at any time in the future? I can live with my feminine ski slope nose which has a projection of 3 cms at the tip. Had I paid for new rib, the bridge may have been raised too high and completely altered my face balance! Rhino surgeons are not warning you that rib dissolves or warps! And if you start on this expensive rib rhino journey you face repeated operations as each rib absorbs over time! This is how we find ladies who have spent $50,000 just on their rhinos!

For those considering silicone, just be aware that if you have thin skin, it may extrude. Here is an extrusion. Now brace yourself for these images but they are necessary for young ladies to understand that rib or silicone rhino is a major commitment and are both imperfect. If you can get rhino without grafts or implants, that is best, else only do if your nose is completely deformed as you may be committed to a lifetime of rhinoplasties.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's second post is on the world record for plastic surgery procedures. I just realised I am in between 59 yo Cindy Jackson who is now 60 and 34 year old Rodrigo the Ken doll at 28 plastic surgeries (5 BA ops mostly because each EU approved implant failed by rupture or leak so would have had just one if my ps had picked a US FDA implant in the first place, 3 rhinos last one because the rib dislodged we assume from the infection most likely due to permanent sutures used inside the nose which were exchanged for longlasting dissolvable pds sutures in the last rhino, 4 upper blepharoplasties as one of them was done uneven by the lipo surgeon so don't have bleph by a lipo specialist offering a multiple procedure discount and over the decades the lid skin sagged, 1 lower bleph as only one ever needed, 6 fgs ie 2 to just lids and 4 to face, as I did not have prp for 3 to face, ulthera to the lower face, chin shaving, 2 liposuctions of my tummy and thighs till I took up walking and stairs, 3 premaxilla gortex ops as I wanted a bigger one and then it got infected so had to be removed, 2 liplifts as I wanted bullhorn but got vermillion first time so had to redo 6 months later) plus over 50 procedures (regular botox and dermal fillers for decades 2-3 times a year, chemical peels, dental veneers x 2 sets, the second set was not needed as it did not improve my smile and instead I needed liplift). Aargh. No wonder my friends keep telling me to stop. I guess I have become an expert ps patient! lol. I am not addicted just trying to stop aging and had an enormous amount of bad luck with infections and implant fails. And am determined not to have any more operations until age 60 and my first smas facelift. I used my inheritance from my father's death like Cindy but also the money I made from media work.

My advice is to always pick a US FDA approved breast implant. Try not to get on the rib rhino cycle. Only get bullhorn liplift. Do not even accept vermillion. Only get prp fat graft. Don't bother with tummy and inner thigh liposuction as fat then grows elsewhere. Just start walking and using the stairs. When I weigh 99 lbs or more, I now get upper arm batwings, upper back fat and love handles which I never had before at 99 lbs my wedding weight, as body fat has now decided to grow there as the fat cells in my tummy and inner thighs were depleted. And finally get ptosis correction with your des to maintain the eyelid crease height. That would have saved me 66% of what I ended up paying which was over £80k or over $130k!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/310...world-record-to-human-ken-doll-rodrigo-alves/


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## MissOrange

For those getting body liposuction, be prepared for the fat cells to expand elsewhere. Now I get expanded fat in my upper arms, upper back and love handles but have a flat tummy and thin thighs. I call it body fat vengeance for getting lipo. Here are photos of my fat upper arms at 99 lbs or a bmi of 18.7 with a 25 inch waist! I keep my weight at 97-98 so my upper arms go back down in size.


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## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> For those getting body liposuction, be prepared for the fat cells to expand elsewhere. Now I get expanded fat in my upper arms, upper back and love handles but have a flat tummy and thin thighs. I call it body fat vengeance for getting lipo. Here are photos of my fat upper arms at 99 lbs or a bmi of 18.7 with a 25 inch waist! I keep my weight at 97-98 so my upper arms go back down in size.



Weight training will take care of this! Can’t just rely on eating right and keeping BMI low.  Especially as a woman ages, weight training is really important to stay toned.


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## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> Weight training will take care of this! Can’t just rely on eating right and keeping BMI low.  Especially as a woman ages, weight training is really important to stay toned.


You are absolutely right @tigertrixie! Funny how it never occurred to me. lol. I guess I have no more excuses.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on the evidence kindly provided by a diligent friend that rib in rib rhinoplasties warps in younger patients (I have also met a warped rib patient who was in her early 30s) and absorbs in over 30 year olds. This is what rhino plastic surgeons should be informing you at consultation so that you may make an informed decision before you are stuck getting repeat rib rhino revisions! Rib cartilage is known to have memory so will want to go back to its curved rib shape in the nose! In one study it said that over 50% of the rib cartilage used in rhino in women was calcified. This implies an over 50% risk of absorption and higher the older you are. It also says old age is a contraindication for rib rhino. Wow thanks for not telling me this my uk plastic surgeon?! And explains why marianaxox on pf complained of her rib reabsorption with 3 rib rhinos with my uk plastic surgeon who did my nose and also never told me this. It was a no win situation for her as rib reabsorbs or warps back to a curved rib as cartilage has memory. It is so sad she took her life over repeated rib rhinos.

Here are 2 articles. One as a link and the other in the screenshots.

Remember that when you have silicone in your nose and need it replacing, they may lure you with a cheap offer of revision rhino but when they see you, they may say your only option is rib. Then you start on an expensive imperfect rhino cycle as rib is flawed. Beware the bait and switch technique some hospitals or clinics may use.

In my case, permanent sutures were used inside the nose (US rhino plastic surgeons advocate dissolvable pds for this reason) which then became a nidus for infection as the body tried to reject foreign suture material at 2 weeks and the infection may then have expedited my rib absorption. Now I am a ticking time bomb for when the remaining rib in my tip and columella completely dissolve as I was told now at 2 years my bridge rib is allegedly all gone. It has taken me 2 years to figure out why my rib rhino big nose shrank and became smaller, short and upturned in a matter of 2.5 weeks after rib rhino (see pic).

Sadly this reminds me of my BA journey and the UK plastic surgeons not using US FDA implants so each either leaked or ruptured as the implants were US FDA rejects but approved in Europe! And so it is that rib and silicone are both imperfect and it is only a matter of time before rib warps in a year or less or absorbs in my case in a record 2.5 weeks as I am well over 30. No wonder a rib rhino plastic surgeon in the UK drove a rolls royce until he retired. Please do not embark on an expensive and imperfect rib rhino journey! The fact that rib reabsorbs so much may also explain why the late Michael Jackson and his sisters' noses became smaller and smaller and more short and upturned.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3645604/


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## MissOrange

Ok so with all these articles on rib rhino and Dr Seong's words ringing in my ears that all my bridge rib was gone, I thought the only way to know for sure is to make a collage of my before nose, chin and lips (top right), my nose in a cast (bottom left), my postop big nose (bottom right) and my current nose 2 years post (top left) to see if indeed the rib in my bridge has dissolved. What do you think? In fact this is a really good exercise as it has made me realise I love my nose now. After fat graft, chin shaving, liplift, this nose now fits and balances the face which makes me wag my finger at Dr Seong and GNG for saying it needed fixing for 18 million won! Pull the other leg! GRRR!


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on the evidence kindly provided by a diligent friend that rib in rib rhinoplasties warps in younger patients (I have also met a warped rib patient who was in her early 30s) and absorbs in over 30 year olds. This is what rhino plastic surgeons should be informing you at consultation so that you may make an informed decision before you are stuck getting repeat rib rhino revisions! Rib cartilage is known to have memory so will want to go back to its curved rib shape in the nose! In one study it said that over 50% of the rib cartilage used in rhino in women was calcified. This implies an over 50% risk of absorption and higher the older you are. It also says old age is a contraindication for rib rhino. Wow thanks for not telling me this my uk plastic surgeon?! And explains why marianaxox on pf complained of her rib reabsorption with 3 rib rhinos with my uk plastic surgeon who did my nose and also never told me this. It was a no win situation for her as rib reabsorbs or warps back to a curved rib as cartilage has memory. It is so sad she took her life over repeated rib rhinos.
> 
> Here are 2 articles. One as a link and the other in the screenshots.
> 
> Remember that when you have silicone in your nose and need it replacing, they may lure you with a cheap offer of revision rhino but when they see you, they may say your only option is rib. Then you start on an expensive imperfect rhino cycle as rib is flawed. Beware the bait and switch technique some hospitals or clinics may use.
> 
> In my case, permanent sutures were used inside the nose (US rhino plastic surgeons advocate dissolvable pds for this reason) which then became a nidus for infection as the body tried to reject foreign suture material at 2 weeks and the infection may then have expedited my rib absorption. Now I am a ticking time bomb for when the remaining rib in my tip and columella completely dissolve as I was told now at 2 years my bridge rib is allegedly all gone. It has taken me 2 years to figure out why my rib rhino big nose shrank and became smaller, short and upturned in a matter of 2.5 weeks after rib rhino (see pic).
> 
> Sadly this reminds me of my BA journey and the UK plastic surgeons not using US FDA implants so each either leaked or ruptured as the implants were US FDA rejects but approved in Europe! And so it is that rib and silicone are both imperfect and it is only a matter of time before rib warps in a year or less or absorbs in my case in a record 2.5 weeks as I am well over 30. No wonder a rib rhino plastic surgeon in the UK drove a rolls royce until he retired. Please do not embark on an expensive and imperfect rib rhino journey! The fact that rib reabsorbs so much may also explain why the late Michael Jackson and his sisters' noses became smaller and smaller and more short and upturned.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3645604/



Out of the two photos, I think you looked the best in the first one.  You look more natural.


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## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> Out of the two photos, I think you looked the best in the first one.  You look more natural.


That first photo was within the first 2 weeks after rib rhino and I really liked that big rib nose but it shrank! It has taken me 2 years to come to terms with this smaller nose and endless extra surgeries to rebalance the face. I seriously do not want any more ps now. 

Top left now with a smaller face after ulthera, weight loss, bullhorn lip lift to balance a smaller nose. Top right 2 years ago before rib rhino, prp fat graft, revision des, liplift. Bottom right was 2 years ago Feb 2016 using oversized glasses to disguise my facial defects. Bottom left my big nose 2 weeks after rib rhino. Lesson to be learned. If you change your nose, you may end up having to change other parts of your face! Or just wear 99p oversized glasses.


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> That first photo was within the first 2 weeks after rib rhino and I really liked that big rib nose but it shrank! It has taken me 2 years to come to terms with this smaller nose and endless extra surgeries to rebalance the face. I seriously do not want any more ps now.
> 
> Top left now with a smaller face after ulthera, weight loss, bullhorn lip lift to balance a smaller nose. Top right 2 years ago before rib rhino, prp fat graft, revision des, liplift. Bottom right was 2 years ago Feb 2016 using oversized glasses to disguise my facial defects. Bottom left my big nose 2 weeks after rib rhino. Lesson to be learned. If you change your nose, you may end up having to change other parts of your face! Or just wear 99p oversized glasses.



With or without surgery, you are attractive.  I really don’t see any “defects” in your face prior to your current look.
Stop while you are ahead! You look fantastic and are a poster child for PS.  I can’t think of any other things you can do to improve on your current look.


----------



## chpwhy

MissOrange said:


> Hi @chpwhy I was swollen and bruised on day 3 for my flight then I stayed home the next day and by day 5 was fine to go out again with mild yellowing around my eyes which were covered with foundation makeup. I would suggest you get daily light treatment for 10 minutes at the clinic, take arnica tablets and use arnica cream and get sun on your face too. This works to speed up recovery from bruising. The bruises on your thighs may take up to 2 weeks as I forgot to ask for light treatment on my donor thighs. If you are skinny, there may be more bruising on the thighs as the plastic surgeon struggles to extract fat. I had bruising on my left thigh and hardly any on my right thigh which is fatter. lol.



Thank you. I have booked an appointment for fat graft + prp first week of April with doc seo.   From consultation to operation, would you remember how long it took?


----------



## MissOrange

tigertrixie said:


> With or without surgery, you are attractive.  I really don’t see any “defects” in your face prior to your current look.
> Stop while you are ahead! You look fantastic and are a poster child for PS.  I can’t think of any other things you can do to improve on your current look.


Hi @tigertrixie, thank you! If only I could stop aging and gravity forever! I have told myself no more surgery and am only allowed my first smas facelift at age 60. Loving this google photo collage function. I have come a long way over 2 years.  I hope ladies who woke up and felt like I did, will learn from what I have done, the good and the bad results, so they just benefit from the good stuff. Befores on the right vs afters on the left. Oh my word, my horrible wrinkled eyelids! Dr Seo fixed them with revision des, ptosis correction a must to mantain the crease and lid fat graft. Ask to overfill the lids! Oh my bony old face. Women we don't have to live looking old, bony, gaunt or wrinkly.


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## MissOrange

chpwhy said:


> Thank you. I have booked an appointment for fat graft + prp first week of April with doc seo.   From consultation to operation, would you remember how long it took?


Hi @chpwhy, looks like I am a poster girl for prp fat transfer! At least you won't make my Da monster face mistake first like I did. April is low season so you should be able to have your surgery the next day but keep communicating with Elizabeth on kakao mvpps as she confirms the date and time of the operation. And between you and me, insist only Dr Seo does your fat transfer! There are 3 other ps at MVP. As Dr Seo is very popular with foreigners, sometimes the clinic offer you Dr Lim instead. You have to be insistent to get Dr Seo! lol. And remember you must maintain the fat graft at 2 lbs more than the weight you are at the time of the operation and drink a litre of water a day. Good luck!


----------



## vanalore

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on the evidence kindly provided by a diligent friend that rib in rib rhinoplasties warps in younger patients (I have also met a warped rib patient who was in her early 30s) and absorbs in over 30 year olds. This is what rhino plastic surgeons should be informing you at consultation so that you may make an informed decision before you are stuck getting repeat rib rhino revisions! Rib cartilage is known to have memory so will want to go back to its curved rib shape in the nose! In one study it said that over 50% of the rib cartilage used in rhino in women was calcified. This implies an over 50% risk of absorption and higher the older you are. It also says old age is a contraindication for rib rhino. Wow thanks for not telling me this my uk plastic surgeon?! And explains why marianaxox on pf complained of her rib reabsorption with 3 rib rhinos with my uk plastic surgeon who did my nose and also never told me this. It was a no win situation for her as rib reabsorbs or warps back to a curved rib as cartilage has memory. It is so sad she took her life over repeated rib rhinos.
> 
> Here are 2 articles. One as a link and the other in the screenshots.
> 
> Remember that when you have silicone in your nose and need it replacing, they may lure you with a cheap offer of revision rhino but when they see you, they may say your only option is rib. Then you start on an expensive imperfect rhino cycle as rib is flawed. Beware the bait and switch technique some hospitals or clinics may use.
> 
> In my case, permanent sutures were used inside the nose (US rhino plastic surgeons advocate dissolvable pds for this reason) which then became a nidus for infection as the body tried to reject foreign suture material at 2 weeks and the infection may then have expedited my rib absorption. Now I am a ticking time bomb for when the remaining rib in my tip and columella completely dissolve as I was told now at 2 years my bridge rib is allegedly all gone. It has taken me 2 years to figure out why my rib rhino big nose shrank and became smaller, short and upturned in a matter of 2.5 weeks after rib rhino (see pic).
> 
> Sadly this reminds me of my BA journey and the UK plastic surgeons not using US FDA implants so each either leaked or ruptured as the implants were US FDA rejects but approved in Europe! And so it is that rib and silicone are both imperfect and it is only a matter of time before rib warps in a year or less or absorbs in my case in a record 2.5 weeks as I am well over 30. No wonder a rib rhino plastic surgeon in the UK drove a rolls royce until he retired. Please do not embark on an expensive and imperfect rib rhino journey! The fact that rib reabsorbs so much may also explain why the late Michael Jackson and his sisters' noses became smaller and smaller and more short and upturned.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3645604/


You know... now that I think about it. I remember one specific clinic that is very popular with rib rhinoplasty. I think it was either Trend or Item. But I have heard that there were Chinese protestors outside of the clinic claiming the clinic botched their face. Perhaps they are victims of the unfortunate inevitable with rib rhino?


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## MissOrange

vanalore said:


> You know... now that I think about it. I remember one specific clinic that is very popular with rib rhinoplasty. I think it was either Trend or Item. But I have heard that there were Chinese protestors outside of the clinic claiming the clinic botched their face. Perhaps they are victims of the unfortunate inevitable with rib rhino?


@vanalore could be. Here is a graph from JAMA Facial Plastic Surgery 2013 Nov 28 entitled Characteristics of Rib Cartilage Calcification in Asian Patients that shows rib calcification for different ribs used vs age ranges. It looks like for my mature age I had up to an 80% chance of calcification ie potential absorption! I just counted my ribs and the graft was taken from the 6th rib so had the highest chance of absorption at 77% calcification than an 8th rib graft. I think he chose the 6th rib to use the same incision scar that was there for my BA but may not have been aware that that would lead to 77% calcification/absorption. Sunce it has now been 2 years, fingers crossed the remaining rib graft is stable and will not absorb more.


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## MissOrange

Leelala said:


> how is your fat graft holding up? any updates?


Hi @Leelala, today is day 24 post prp full face fat graft. Here is today's photo. I still look 23 or younger with my natural brown eyes. Oh my goodness what was I supposed to say now when I talk to strangers tonight? Aargh. I had children when I was young and they are young and no it is not polite to ask a lady's age. Absolutely no way will I reveal my true age. I am not going to be laughed at and I have no pleasure in seeing ghostly white shocked faces anymore. I refuse to be a freak. What do I say if they ask me what I do for a living? I can't say I am retired. Don't really want to say housewife. I don't know why but there is a stigma to saying housewife. I can't say I blog because that will lead to a discussion on plastic surgery and I must not reveal. Can I just say I do nothing? Safest answer. Oh I got it, if they push I shall say I attend a community college and study korean. Phew. See what you have to do when you follow my journey and look 20-30 years younger too!


----------



## Leelala

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Leelala, today is day 24 post prp full face fat graft. Here is today's photo. I still look 23 or younger with my natural brown eyes. Oh my goodness what was I supposed to say now when I talk to strangers tonight? Aargh. I had children when I was young and they are young and no it is not polite to ask a lady's age. Absolutely no way will I reveal my true age. I am not going to be laughed at and I have no pleasure in seeing ghostly white shocked faces anymore. I refuse to be a freak. What do I say if they ask me what I do for a living? I can't say I am retired. Don't really want to say housewife. I don't know why but there is a stigma to saying housewife. I can't say I blog because that will lead to a discussion on plastic surgery and I must not reveal. Can I just say I do nothing? Safest answer. Oh I got it, if they push I shall say I attend a community college and study korean. Phew. See what you have to do when you follow my journey and look 20-30 years younger too!


Wow you look amazing and super natural! Can you tell me when and where you got your fat grafts? I remember you mentioned in another post that you wouldn’t recommend fat graft except for certain areas of the face, do you still agree to this? I got fat grafting last october and I really regret it but I think I just should have gotten in my side areas. I’m planning on doing face lipo and also fat transfer again in a few months...


----------



## Leelala

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Leelala, today is day 24 post prp full face fat graft. Here is today's photo. I still look 23 or younger with my natural brown eyes. Oh my goodness what was I supposed to say now when I talk to strangers tonight? Aargh. I had children when I was young and they are young and no it is not polite to ask a lady's age. Absolutely no way will I reveal my true age. I am not going to be laughed at and I have no pleasure in seeing ghostly white shocked faces anymore. I refuse to be a freak. What do I say if they ask me what I do for a living? I can't say I am retired. Don't really want to say housewife. I don't know why but there is a stigma to saying housewife. I can't say I blog because that will lead to a discussion on plastic surgery and I must not reveal. Can I just say I do nothing? Safest answer. Oh I got it, if they push I shall say I attend a community college and study korean. Phew. See what you have to do when you follow my journey and look 20-30 years younger too!


and do you see anything negative about the fat graft? Like assymetries, lumps, sagging bc of it etc? I honestly feel like getting the fat in my chin and marionette lines caused even more sagging and deeper marionette lines. Did you get fat injected there too?


----------



## MissOrange

Leelala said:


> and do you see anything negative about the fat graft? Like assymetries, lumps, sagging bc of it etc? I honestly feel like getting the fat in my chin and marionette lines caused even more sagging and deeper marionette lines. Did you get fat injected there too?


Hi @Leelala where did you get your fat graft done in October? Yes I have been on a rollercoaster ride with facial fat graft. I think it has been a learning curve on fat grafts. I did not know that I had to drink a lot of water to plump up the fat cells so when my face looked sallow and saggy, it may not have been from fat cell absorption but just needed 'watering' ie hydration. DAPRS used regular fat graft and I had read on pf other reviewers say their DAPRS fat graft only lasted 6 months and how expensive prp fat graft was at DAPRS. The fat graft from DAPRS also did not last long on me and yes I would agree 6 months but I always told myself that with each top up surely 50% would stay? I never asked for prp as I knew it would be out of my price range. I had picked Dr Kim at DAPRS as he was their lipo ps. And when I saw my monster face postop I thought this was the norm for fat graft as I had not tried elsewhere. It was only when my second fat graft with Dr Kim did not give me a monster face or massively bruised legs, that I realised it could be done gently but then I lost confidence in him with the third fat graft leaving me with an ugly face immediately postop and massively bruised legs and thoughts of a doctor swap, more tears and then the fat graft seemed to last only a few weeks. I was frustrated with fat transfer as it seemed to stay in my cheeks and disappear from my lower face which gave me a huge chipmunk face when smiling, all very unnatural, so yes I did earlier only advise getting fat transfer in the forehead, temples and upper lids. And if you want to ease into fat transfer then just try getting it in these areas as it is less traumatic.

But when I learned that mvp only does prp fat graft I realised I should have gone with mvp for fat graft all along. DAPRS was cheaper because it was regular fat graft but only a little cheaper than mvp and mvp was quoting for prp fat graft, so it turned out that mvp was actually a lot cheaper than DA! Oh well, I realised I had wasted 3.5 million at DAPRS but thought maybe some of the regular fg cells had stayed? Wishful thinking.

So now I am finally doing fat graft the proper way, ie I got prp (platelet rich plasma) fat graft at mvp. In 5 days it will be a month postop. I am hoping by drinking plenty of water, keeping my weight static at 2 lbs above, ie 98 lbs, it will not absorb as much or in an uneven manner as regular fat graft at DA had. And no, I don't have any lumps. I did have sagging with the DA regular fat graft but that was with weight loss of 3 lbs below my fat graft weight, so my face looked like a deflating sagging balloon.

Fat graft maintenance is hard work and demands almost daily weigh ins and carrying a water bottle out with you.

This time around I tried Dr Seo at MVP for full face prp fat graft and let him design the face with the fat injections. He decided to inject the forehead, temples, upper lids, malar cheeks, nasolabial and create a v line chin as my chin shaving made my chin short in the front view. I am hoping now that I have prp fat that I am finished with fat grafting. Watch this space.


----------



## missy_sana

@MissOrange , yes, if anyone asks, just say that you're studying.  If they ask further what subject, you simply answer "Korean", then quickly change topic to ask about themselves.  Let them guess you may be studying it full-time with a part-time job, because it is in line with your perceived age and what most youngsters do at that age.

I think you look more believably youthful and Lolita-like with your natural brown eyes.

When our appearance changes with plastic surgery, so does our makeup regime.   Or maybe even change the way we use makeup and skincare to avoid further plastic surgery!

Can you see the difference since I suggested you swapping to a more pinky lipstick, as seen in your above photo?

Try a natural daytime look, for example, by tight-lining" the upper eyes waterline instead of hiding the entire double eye crease with thick eyeliner, because it'll just defeat the purpose of getting a DES done, as natural as Dr Seo's!

Since my DES with him, I find that, to emphasize my eye creases, I just leave my eyelids bare or give a light swipe of matte brown or pastel eyeshadow.  No eyeliner needed! A champagne-colour (not white) for the aeygo-sal, which helps neutralize my dark under-eye circles after dabbing on BB cream there.  Pink lippie AND pink blusher!

Study how K-pop idols look so youthful (perceived age: teens - 23) with barely there makeup, in comparison to the older look (perceived age: 23+) of heavily eyeshadowed eyes, sculpted face and full bold lips of western Instagrammers.
OMG, even the American toddler pageant queens look older with the fluttering falsies & Instagram makeover!


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## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> @MissOrange , yes, if anyone asks, just say that you're studying.  If they ask further what subject, you simply answer "Korean", then quickly change topic to ask about themselves.  Let them guess you may be studying it full-time with a part-time job, because it is in line with your perceived age and what most youngsters do at that age.
> 
> I think you look more believably youthful and Lolita-like with your natural brown eyes.
> 
> When our appearance changes with plastic surgery, so does our makeup regime.   Or maybe even change the way we use makeup and skincare to avoid further plastic surgery!
> 
> Can you see the difference since I suggested you swapping to a more pinky lipstick, as seen in your above photo?
> 
> Try a natural daytime look, for example, by tight-lining" the upper eyes waterline instead of hiding the entire double eye crease with thick eyeliner, because it'll just defeat the purpose of getting a DES done, as natural as Dr Seo's!
> 
> Since my DES with him, I find that, to emphasize my eye creases, I just leave my eyelids bare or give a light swipe of matte brown or pastel eyeshadow.  No eyeliner needed! A champagne-colour (not white) for the aeygo-sal, which helps neutralize my dark under-eye circles after dabbing on BB cream there.  Pink lippie AND pink blusher!
> 
> Study how K-pop idols look so youthful (perceived age: teens - 23) with barely there makeup, in comparison to the older look (perceived age: 23+) of heavily eyeshadowed eyes, sculpted face and full bold lips of western Instagrammers.
> OMG, even the American toddler pageant queens look older with the fluttering falsies & Instagram makeover!


Hi @missy_sana oh my goodness we are like twins then, you got your des with seo and vermillion LL with Choi and so did I. I try to think positively so tell myself at least Choi removed the upper lip filler lumps and gave me a flat Korean upper lip which did improve my side profile. Yes I agree my makeup is dated. I am so used to covering my lids with heavy makeup to hide the triple wrinkles and keep forgetting my lids are all fixed now. I am too scared to go all bare on the lids but the idea of just eyeshadow is a good one I never even though of! I tried to do the thin black line on the upper lid but it always comes out thick and uneven so I just colour in the entire lid crease. lol. I have been watching the k pop dancers to learn their dance moves as if my 60 year old husband would take me dancing! Not! lol. I shall try to study their makeup. And yes I agree pink blusher as when I drank all the different soju fruit cocktails at the embassy dinner, I noticed my cheeks went bright pink and my face looked better! I never wear blush so maybe I should try now. I shall PM you my kakao. Would love to be friends!


----------



## missy_sana

I've just PM'ed you, so come and see the real me!


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> I've just PM'ed you, so come and see the real me!


You look 18-22 @missy_sana! Looking good! My polka dot pink backpack arrived this afternoon in the post and I tried it on! A student needs a backpack to attend college to study Korean. But am procrastinating on doing the homework until the day before class. Nothing changes.


----------



## catelet

@MissOrange you look so good but you did look good before as well. Also I forgot to mention how gorgeous your daughter is! No surprise there.  

One thing stands out to me--your "before" face is much more a square shape--in the "after", it's much narrower and v-shaped--the square edges of your lower jaw are gone. How was that accomplished or did you already explain that and I missed it?


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange you look so good but you did look good before as well. Also I forgot to mention how gorgeous your daughter is! No surprise there.
> 
> One thing stands out to me--your "before" face is much more a square shape--in the "after", it's much narrower and v-shaped--the square edges of your lower jaw are gone. How was that accomplished or did you already explain that and I missed it?


Hi @catelet, I had chin shaving in Feb 2016 at the same time as rib rhino with Mr Ion in London and that rounded and softened the jawline especially in side profile view but the front view made the chin look a bit short, and then in Feb 2018 I had ulthera as well as prp full face fat graft at MVP. Dr Seo put a lot of fat graft in my chin so I think he was creating a v line. I literally gave him permission to inject anywhere he wanted to as I trusted his aesthetic eye too. It may also be due to the  ulthera lift which I was told may take up to 3 months to work but I am noticing it working sooner at 24 days post. I know Elizabeth their translator had ulthera as I asked her why her jawline was so tight and was pleasantly surprised it was not due to smas facelift but ulthera! This made me patient to wait to see the magic work on me!

Aww thanks for the compliment on behalf of my daughter. She is the eldest of 3. My middle daughter is athletic and camera shy vs the youngest is addicted to snapchat. Having a daughter born with a small face, 5'8" and mixed race means I am more self conscious of growing old and losing my looks. I am happy to wear 4 inch heels but she still towers above me, and draw the line with leg lengthening in China! Yikes!

A friend told me the trigger for craving ps was watching k dramas and told me not to watch but today I started another k drama called The Great Seducer! I use the excuse that I need to watch to practice understanding Korean. lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Here are some more photos. I think my jawline is slimmer from the ulthera! What do you think? They recommend ulthera for thin skin with mild jowls. Then I think comes threadlift for medium skin and medium sag and finally smas rhytidectomy for a lot of sagging.


----------



## catelet

You look fab. I like your brown eyes, too they're so pretty.


----------



## loves

I think I can see the Ulthera working for you. I did it in September last year and I think it works. I find we can look young if we have fat faces via fg or naturally and some of us have nearly no wrinkles,  I have no lines because my skin was extremely oily most of my life. However I find the mouth area shows aging easily, it's just saggier and looser than the rest of the face.

I don't watch K dramas though, I have no patience for long drawn dramatics


----------



## MissOrange

loves said:


> I think I can see the Ulthera working for you. I did it in September last year and I think it works. I find we can look young if we have fat faces via fg or naturally and some of us have nearly no wrinkles,  I have no lines because my skin was extremely oily most of my life. However I find the mouth area shows aging easily, it's just saggier and looser than the rest of the face.
> 
> I don't watch K dramas though, I have no patience for long drawn dramatics


Wow @loves you had ulthera too! Good to know it worked. Interesting that you had oily skin and ergo no lines. I never thought of that connection. I had oily skin growing up and was beset with pimples because it was so oily as a teen. I used to powder my face every day to dry my skin from my 20s onwards and now in my 50s I don't have to powder as my skin has gone the other way and is now dry, so I moisturise and use a japanese toner that was all the rage in a recent daily mail article! A friend mentioned a serum called First by o hui for eye wrinkles instead of botox. I need to look that one up as I get lines around my eyes when I smile showing teeth so there are no selfies with a Farrah Fawcett smile.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on aging naturally vs with plastic surgery. I met Cindy, a world record holder of ps, over a decade ago in London and she looked like a Hollywood star with flawless skin and a beautiful young face, so was surprised to read that she had decided to grow old naturally. I am so not ready to jump off the ps rejuvenation bandwagon. Addicted to the google photo collage function, I put together one of me at age 51 vs Cindy at age 59. The biggest difference is the jawline. V line jaws do make one look younger! As I cannot afford an 11 million smas or a 10 million v line surgery (I watch extreme cheapskates if that gives you an idea), it seems that fat graft to the chin with ulthera to lift the sides creates the v line look for a lot less money!


----------



## MissOrange

Ok an a roll comparing aging faces. This is what you do when you reach your 50s! lol. Here I put together one of 51-year-old Cameron who is 6 months younger than I am (and clearly had some treatments for a wrinkle free forehead and young skin for his age), 61-year-old Theresa May who is 10 years older than I am but only 2 years older than Cindy. This means Cindy's earlier investments in plastic surgery paid off vs chronic stress has indeed caused advanced aging in our PM. I dread to think how old I would look had I not discovered ps rejuvenation surgery.


----------



## MissOrange

For those embarking on plastic surgery rejuvenation, save some old photos so you can then create a collage! Here is another journey collage showing me between ages 49 and 51. The top right is at 49 taken at Ion's consulting rooms in February 2016 to plan rib rhino and chin shaving. The top left was taken in May 2016 after the reop rhino with Ion. The chin shaving was done in March 2016 but is not so noticeable on front view as it is on side profile. The face is still not right as the rib rhino looks short and philtrum long. The bottom right was taken June 2016 at age 50 after Dr Seo's eyelid des, ptosis correction and lid fat graft but before full face fg and bullhorn liplift. The eyes look rejuvenated but still the face could be improved...and finally the bottom left is at age 51, days after Dr Seo's prp full face fg and ulthera and Miss Mills bullhorn liplift a year earlier. Now you can see why I rave about Dr Seo of MVP clinic in Korea. Even the UK plastic surgeons could not make me as beautiful as Dr Seo has and for much cheaper than UK prices.


----------



## missy_sana

@MissOrange , now you got me wanting an ulthera too when I go back to get my FG top-up...


----------



## Luv n bags

MissOrange said:


> Ok an a roll comparing aging faces. This is what you do when you reach your 50s! lol. Here I put together one of 51-year-old Cameron who is 6 months younger than I am (and clearly had some treatments for a wrinkle free forehead and young skin for his age), 61-year-old Theresa May who is 10 years older than I am but only 2 years older than Cindy. This means Cindy's earlier investments in plastic surgery paid off vs chronic stress has indeed caused advanced aging in our PM. I dread to think how old I would look had I not discovered ps rejuvenation surgery.



Hi there!

I think you are comparing apples to oranges.  The real test is to choose a woman who is your age who underwent the same procedures as you.

To compare yourself to Caucasian people is so off base.  Everyone and every ethnic group ages differently. 

Sometimes your comments are really generalized regarding women your age. “Granny panties”, sagging bums, etc...

Where I live, women, in general,  take really great care of themselves.  Of all ethnic groups. What is attractive to one person doesn’t always translate to another person.  Women your age are still wearing thongs and rocking a bikini.  And they look to be in their 30’s.

Everyone does what they need to do to feel healthy and happy.  To some, PS is not in their vocabulary and they should not be “PS Shamed” or “age shamed”.

There is a woman named Liu Yelin.  I believe she is the same age as you.  In my opinion, she would be good to compare yourself to.


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> @MissOrange , now you got me wanting an ulthera too when I go back to get my FG top-up...


You look fine as you are now @missy_sana. Any younger and you will look like a teenager!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on aging naturally vs with plastic surgery. I met Cindy, a world record holder of ps, over a decade ago in London and she looked like a Hollywood star with flawless skin and a beautiful young face, so was surprised to read that she had decided to grow old naturally. I am so not ready to jump off the ps rejuvenation bandwagon. Addicted to the google photo collage function, I put together one of me at age 51 vs Cindy at age 59. The biggest difference is the jawline. V line jaws do make one look younger! As I cannot afford an 11 million smas or a 10 million v line surgery (I watch extreme cheapskates if that gives you an idea), it seems that fat graft to the chin with ulthera to lift the sides creates the v line look for a lot less money!



A girl has to know when to stop.  

Jennifer Pamplona, 25, from Sao Paolo, Brazil, posed naked to celebrate completing her surgery to emulate her idol Kim Kardashian. She has spent a staggering $500,000 (£350,000) transforming close to every inch of her body, from having four ribs removed to four pints of fat injected into her buttocks.

Recently she went under the knife again for her second nose job, to remove cheek fillers and had a face lift to closely resemble the star.

The doppelganger has just recovered from the $30,000 (£21,000) procedures with Dr Bulent Cihantimur, in Turkey, that initially left her unable to smile.

She wants more but her doctors are saying no.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> A girl has to know when to stop.
> 
> Jennifer Pamplona, 25, from Sao Paolo, Brazil, posed naked to celebrate completing her surgery to emulate her idol Kim Kardashian. She has spent a staggering $500,000 (£350,000) transforming close to every inch of her body, from having four ribs removed to four pints of fat injected into her buttocks.
> 
> Recently she went under the knife again for her second nose job, to remove cheek fillers and had a face lift to closely resemble the star.
> 
> The doppelganger has just recovered from the $30,000 (£21,000) procedures with Dr Bulent Cihantimur, in Turkey, that initially left her unable to smile.
> 
> She wants more but her doctors are saying no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4012099


@SheOnlyLooks25 wow I never heard of this lady. Yes I agree her behind is now way too big for her frame. It’s one thing to have ps to look more beautiful or to rejuvenate but going overboard with it can be more harmful to one's appearance in the end. Good to know doctors are refusing her ps. I think responsibility lies with both parties.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on the free makeup plus app. Now I know what I will look like if I let myself go completely grey or dye my hair platinum blonde! I have made a promise to try platinum blonde when I turn 60. Too scared now. I even tried pink hair on the app! lol. I know, I put far too much makeup on with the app. I am a product of the 80s and 90s, big hair and lots of makeup! lol. I like the mauve eyeshadow and peach blush on me.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on the free makeup plus app. Now I know what I will look like if I let myself go completely grey or dye my hair platinum blonde! I have made a promise to try platinum blonde when I turn 60. Too scared now. I even tried pink hair on the app! lol. I know, I put far too much makeup on with the app. I am a product of the 80s and 90s, big hair and lots of makeup! lol. I like the mauve eyeshadow and peach blush on me.




Gurl, if you can't 'bare' to go Ulzzang, then have fun being shamelessly Gyaru!


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Gurl, if you can't 'bare' to go Ulzzang, then have fun being shamelessly Gyaru!


Wow! Thanks @missy_sana! There's a look for everyone! Gyaru has bottom lashes! I already make a mess trying to apply upper lashes! My hair stylist even suggested balayage! But as an extreme cheapskate I like paying £5 for my l'oreal excellence hair dye. lol.


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## MissOrange

So that is what looking like a baby doll is called...ulzzang! Here is a collage of my ulzzang face. lol. Do you think they will refuse me my free 60 yo+ oyster travel card in 8 years? lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Tomorrow I shall put up my one month photo update on prp fat graft before I head to another korean banquet and stuff my face, ie literally stuff my fat graft cells! lol. It is not a pretty sight so no photos after I eat. I am determined to make this the last fat graft. I have been diligent at maintaining my weight at 2 okay now 3 lbs above fat graft weight and drinking water. I stopped drinking diet coke due to the aspartame. So watch this space. I will crack this fat grafting once and for all as I am fed up of flying half way across the world for top ups. Surely my face has retained % from each of the 4 fgs.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> So that is what looking like a baby doll is called...ulzzang! Here is a collage of my ulzzang face. lol. Do you think they will refuse me my free 60 yo+ oyster travel card in 8 years? lol.



If you keep reversing in age within the next 8 years, then apply for Child/Student Oyster Travel instead.


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## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> If you keep reversing in age within the next 8 years, then apply for Child/Student Oyster Travel instead.


I asked my husband if I could apply for the 16-25 rail card! lol.


----------



## catelet

@SheOnlyLooks25 the young lady's pics you shared --JP--her face looks really good. However, re: hips/etc, there is a study saying a 10 inch smaller waist than bust and hips is ideal and is found the most attractive., and that a waist much smaller than that was not more attractive, but less attractive--not sure why. To each their own though and I agree it's good the doctors said "no" to more.


----------



## Leelala

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Leelala where did you get your fat graft done in October? Yes I have been on a rollercoaster ride with facial fat graft. I think it has been a learning curve on fat grafts. I did not know that I had to drink a lot of water to plump up the fat cells so when my face looked sallow and saggy, it may not have been from fat cell absorption but just needed 'watering' ie hydration. DAPRS used regular fat graft and I had read on pf other reviewers say their DAPRS fat graft only lasted 6 months and how expensive prp fat graft was at DAPRS. The fat graft from DAPRS also did not last long on me and yes I would agree 6 months but I always told myself that with each top up surely 50% would stay? I never asked for prp as I knew it would be out of my price range. I had picked Dr Kim at DAPRS as he was their lipo ps. And when I saw my monster face postop I thought this was the norm for fat graft as I had not tried elsewhere. It was only when my second fat graft with Dr Kim did not give me a monster face or massively bruised legs, that I realised it could be done gently but then I lost confidence in him with the third fat graft leaving me with an ugly face immediately postop and massively bruised legs and thoughts of a doctor swap, more tears and then the fat graft seemed to last only a few weeks. I was frustrated with fat transfer as it seemed to stay in my cheeks and disappear from my lower face which gave me a huge chipmunk face when smiling, all very unnatural, so yes I did earlier only advise getting fat transfer in the forehead, temples and upper lids. And if you want to ease into fat transfer then just try getting it in these areas as it is less traumatic.
> 
> But when I learned that mvp only does prp fat graft I realised I should have gone with mvp for fat graft all along. DAPRS was cheaper because it was regular fat graft but only a little cheaper than mvp and mvp was quoting for prp fat graft, so it turned out that mvp was actually a lot cheaper than DA! Oh well, I realised I had wasted 3.5 million at DAPRS but thought maybe some of the regular fg cells had stayed? Wishful thinking.
> 
> So now I am finally doing fat graft the proper way, ie I got prp (platelet rich plasma) fat graft at mvp. In 5 days it will be a month postop. I am hoping by drinking plenty of water, keeping my weight static at 2 lbs above, ie 98 lbs, it will not absorb as much or in an uneven manner as regular fat graft at DA had. And no, I don't have any lumps. I did have sagging with the DA regular fat graft but that was with weight loss of 3 lbs below my fat graft weight, so my face looked like a deflating sagging balloon.
> 
> Fat graft maintenance is hard work and demands almost daily weigh ins and carrying a water bottle out with you.
> 
> This time around I tried Dr Seo at MVP for full face prp fat graft and let him design the face with the fat injections. He decided to inject the forehead, temples, upper lids, malar cheeks, nasolabial and create a v line chin as my chin shaving made my chin short in the front view. I am hoping now that I have prp fat that I am finished with fat grafting. Watch this space.


i got it done in the US


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is the one month or 4 weeks update on prp fat graft. Here it is. No makeup photo although I couldn't not put my false eyelashes in as going completely bare faced is like being nude! Lol. And with makeup photo. I weighed 98.6 today so about 2 lbs above the fg weight. It is holding up! Next hurdle is 6 months. Staying positive that this is my final fg ever.


----------



## jessy.do

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is the one month or 4 weeks update on prp fat graft. Here it is. No makeup photo although I couldn't not put my false eyelashes in as going completely bare faced is like being nude! Lol. And with makeup photo. I weighed 98.6 today so about 2 lbs above the fg weight. It is holding up! Next hurdle is 6 months. Staying positive that this is my final fg ever.


Hi Ms Orange, can you please recommend what is the best method for primary rhinoplasty? No plant or silicon with cartilage? I am going to Korean for primary rhinoplasty but still cant firgure out which method I should do? Thank you for your help!


----------



## MissOrange

jessy.do said:


> Hi Ms Orange, can you please recommend what is the best method for primary rhinoplasty? No plant or silicon with cartilage? I am going to Korean for primary rhinoplasty but still cant firgure out which method I should do? Thank you for your help!


Hi @jessy.do the best primary rhinoplasty is one in which the plastic surgeon does not need to add a rib graft or silicone implant as both are imperfect as rib may lead to warping in the young or absorption in the older and silicone may lead to infection, rejection or extrusion. In Korea, it seems that girls first try silicone as it is the cheapest and can last up to 15 years or in one patient over 30 years. When it becomes too old, they then get it replaced. If they get an infection, they are told they cannot have silicone again, so end up paying a lot more for rib. Then when the rib warps or dislodges, they then pay a whopping amount for rib revision. And that is how they end up spending $50,000 just on their nose. So if you can get a rhinoplasty without rib or silicone, then that is best. Else you start with silicone and go from there. For silicone primary rhino I would recommend Dr Seo of MVP who did @smitten_kitten's rhino, @owlgore's rhino and @ohaiolos's rhino as he creates the most aesthetic nose, can do long or barbie noses and is the cheapest for foreigners.


----------



## MilkTeaBoba

MissOrange said:


> Hi @jessy.do the best primary rhinoplasty is one in which the plastic surgeon does not need to add a rib graft or silicone implant as both are imperfect as rib may lead to warping in the young or absorption in the older and silicone may lead to infection, rejection or extrusion. In Korea, it seems that girls first try silicone as it is the cheapest and can last up to 15 years or in one patient over 30 years. When it becomes too old, they then get it replaced. If they get an infection, they are told they cannot have silicone again, so end up paying a lot more for rib. Then when the rib warps or dislodges, they then pay a whopping amount for rib revision. And that is how they end up spending $50,000 just on their nose. So if you can get a rhinoplasty without rib or silicone, then that is best. Else you start with silicone and go from there. For silicone primary rhino I would recommend Dr Seo of MVP who did @smitten_kitten's rhino, @owlgore's rhino and @ohaiolos's rhino as he creates the most aesthetic nose, can do long or barbie noses and is the cheapest for foreigners.



Hi, @MissOrange! I'm pretty new to this forum but I've been researching and reading like crazy! Your posts have been very informational and honest! I am also planning to get a primary rhinoplasty but I'm getting nervous about hearing about all the imperfections with rib and silicone. Since I have a flat and wide asian nose, what do you think is the best for building up for a slightly higher bridge? I feel like my best option is to just go with ultra soft silicone and hope for the best!


----------



## MissOrange

MilkTeaBoba said:


> Hi, @MissOrange! I'm pretty new to this forum but I've been researching and reading like crazy! Your posts have been very informational and honest! I am also planning to get a primary rhinoplasty but I'm getting nervous about hearing about all the imperfections with rib and silicone. Since I have a flat and wide asian nose, what do you think is the best for building up for a slightly higher bridge? I feel like my best option is to just go with ultra soft silicone and hope for the best!


I agree @MilkTeaBoba to build up a nose requires an implant or graft so yes, ultra soft silicone is your best option as it is much cheaper than rib and will maintain its shape. Rib should always be the last resort.


----------



## jessy.do

Hi Ms Orang, thank you so much for your recommendation, one more thing please can you help me to clarify? Rhinoplasty wihout rib or silicon - is this called no plant rhinoplasty? If so at MVP does dr Seo do this method? I saw dr Park ar Baum has this. Thank you ms Orange 


MissOrange said:


> Hi @jessy.do the best primary rhinoplasty is one in which the plastic surgeon does not need to add a rib graft or silicone implant as both are imperfect as rib may lead to warping in the young or absorption in the older and silicone may lead to infection, rejection or extrusion. In Korea, it seems that girls first try silicone as it is the cheapest and can last up to 15 years or in one patient over 30 years. When it becomes too old, they then get it replaced. If they get an infection, they are told they cannot have silicone again, so end up paying a lot more for rib. Then when the rib warps or dislodges, they then pay a whopping amount for rib revision. And that is how they end up spending $50,000 just on their nose. So if you can get a rhinoplasty without rib or silicone, then that is best. Else you start with silicone and go from there. For silicone primary rhino I would recommend Dr Seo of MVP who did @smitten_kitten's rhino, @owlgore's rhino and @ohaiolos's rhino as he creates the most aesthetic nose, can do long or barbie noses and is the cheapest for foreigners.[/QUOTErecomend,


----------



## vanalore

MissOrange said:


> Hi @jessy.do the best primary rhinoplasty is one in which the plastic surgeon does not need to add a rib graft or silicone implant as both are imperfect as rib may lead to warping in the young or absorption in the older and silicone may lead to infection, rejection or extrusion. In Korea, it seems that girls first try silicone as it is the cheapest and can last up to 15 years or in one patient over 30 years. When it becomes too old, they then get it replaced. If they get an infection, they are told they cannot have silicone again, so end up paying a lot more for rib. Then when the rib warps or dislodges, they then pay a whopping amount for rib revision. And that is how they end up spending $50,000 just on their nose. So if you can get a rhinoplasty without rib or silicone, then that is best. Else you start with silicone and go from there. For silicone primary rhino I would recommend Dr Seo of MVP who did @smitten_kitten's rhino, @owlgore's rhino and @ohaiolos's rhino as he creates the most aesthetic nose, can do long or barbie noses and is the cheapest for foreigners.


What if they only place the rib cartilage on the tip area and use silicone for bridge? Will there still be a chance of it warping and absorption?


----------



## MissOrange

jessy.do said:


> Hi Ms Orang, thank you so much for your recommendation, one more thing please can you help me to clarify? Rhinoplasty wihout rib or silicon - is this called no plant rhinoplasty? If so at MVP does dr Seo do this method? I saw dr Park ar Baum has this. Thank you ms Orange


Hi @jessy.do I think no plant means no implant. Not sure if that means no rib but definitely means no silicone. I don't know if Dr Seo does no silicone rhino. Best to kakao mvpps and ask.


----------



## MissOrange

vanalore said:


> What if they only place the rib cartilage on the tip area and use silicone for bridge? Will there still be a chance of it warping and absorption?


Wow @vanalore that is expensive to do rib rhino and just use the rib in the tip and also pay for silicone rhino for the silicone implant on the bridge. They usually use ear or septal cartilage or diced cartilage wrapped in dermis in the tip.


----------



## vanalore

MissOrange said:


> Wow @vanalore that is expensive to do rib rhino and just use the rib in the tip and also pay for silicone rhino for the silicone implant on the bridge. They usually use ear or septal cartilage or diced cartilage wrapped in dermis in the tip.


Apparently those two cartilages are too soft to use... they recommended rib cartilage cause they need a strong cartilage to push the tip down lol I don’t know if that’s true or not. What is your opinion? My case is revision also so that could explain it being a bit more expensive?


----------



## MissOrange

vanalore said:


> Apparently those two cartilages are too soft to use... they recommended rib cartilage cause they need a strong cartilage to push the tip down lol I don’t know if that’s true or not. What is your opinion? My case is revision also so that could explain it being a bit more expensive?


Hi @vanalore, it is difficult to comment without seeing your nose and knowing what you want to achieve. I think a lot of thought has to go into rhino revisions, as each time you do a revision, you are more likely to get another revision especially if you are not happy with the results or if the resultant nose is overbuilt, different from what you asked for, etc. and at some point one has to say stop and just accept the current nose. Each rhino revision is like playing Russian Roulette in my opinion.


----------



## Hautelady

MissOrange said:


> For those embarking on plastic surgery rejuvenation, save some old photos so you can then create a collage! Here is another journey collage showing me between ages 49 and 51. The top right is at 49 taken at Ion's consulting rooms in February 2016 to plan rib rhino and chin shaving. The top left was taken in May 2016 after the reop rhino with Ion. The chin shaving was done in March 2016 but is not so noticeable on front view as it is on side profile. The face is still not right as the rib rhino looks short and philtrum long. The bottom right was taken June 2016 at age 50 after Dr Seo's eyelid des, ptosis correction and lid fat graft but before full face fg and bullhorn liplift. The eyes look rejuvenated but still the face could be improved...and finally the bottom left is at age 51, days after Dr Seo's prp full face fg and ulthera and Miss Mills bullhorn liplift a year earlier. Now you can see why I rave about Dr Seo of MVP clinic in Korea. Even the UK plastic surgeons could not make me as beautiful as Dr Seo has and for much cheaper than UK prices.



This is full of good info. MissOrange, your transformation is unbelievable. Speed-reading through all your posts (google images is full of your selfies, btw) , I have a few questions:
1. You mentioned in some thread that you had Hair transplant and you lost half your hair during the shock process. Now, it all came back, right? Maybe, a year or so later?  Otherwise, hair transplant should be banned !

2. Also somewhere , you mentioned you had two liposuctions . Did that include facial or jaw lipo? Looking at your 2016 photos, the jaws seem to be wide/chunky/squarish. Unless of course you lost half your weight, after that, haha.

3. Did your sonopet chin shaving involve making it Vline as well ? There's not a lot of reviews about this sonopet ultrasonic knife bone-cutting. I don't think it ever made to to Seoul yet.

4. Also, I think in another thread you mentioned you had several breast augmentation, did you have it done in UK or US.

5. You must have spent a lot of UK$$Kw on some hits and misses, what is the most worthwhile/bang for the buck/will do it again in another life  procedure?


----------



## vanalore

MissOrange said:


> Hi @vanalore, it is difficult to comment without seeing your nose and knowing what you want to achieve. I think a lot of thought has to go into rhino revisions, as each time you do a revision, you are more likely to get another revision especially if you are not happy with the results or if the resultant nose is overbuilt, different from what you asked for, etc. and at some point one has to say stop and just accept the current nose. Each rhino revision is like playing Russian Roulette in my opinion.


For my primary rhinoplasty the doctor used an L-shaped implant. I think this has resulted in my nose being more upturned than before. I hear so many  horror stories about L-shaped implants and it’s pretty much an outdated silicone. I’m dying to get it out hahah so hopefully this will be my final surgery. ^^


----------



## MissOrange

vanalore said:


> For my primary rhinoplasty the doctor used an L-shaped implant. I think this has resulted in my nose being more upturned than before. I hear so many  horror stories about L-shaped implants and it’s pretty much an outdated silicone. I’m dying to get it out hahah so hopefully this will be my final surgery. ^^


Hi @vanalore, I am so sorry to read you have a more upturned nose from the L shaped implants. I think you should be fine with the ultrasoft silicone implants and then leave rib as a last resort as it is super expensive. If I had an outdated silicone in my nose, I would beg Dr Seo to sort it out. Not sure if he does silicone revisions but would definitely ask.


----------



## MissOrange

Hautelady said:


> This is full of good info. MissOrange, your transformation is unbelievable. Speed-reading through all your posts (google images is full of your selfies, btw) , I have a few questions:
> 1. You mentioned in some thread that you had Hair transplant and you lost half your hair during the shock process. Now, it all came back, right? Maybe, a year or so later?  Otherwise, hair transplant should be banned !
> 
> 2. Also somewhere , you mentioned you had two liposuctions . Did that include facial or jaw lipo? Looking at your 2016 photos, the jaws seem to be wide/chunky/squarish. Unless of course you lost half your weight, after that, haha.
> 
> 3. Did your sonopet chin shaving involve making it Vline as well ? There's not a lot of reviews about this sonopet ultrasonic knife bone-cutting. I don't think it ever made to to Seoul yet.
> 
> 4. Also, I think in another thread you mentioned you had several breast augmentation, did you have it done in UK or US.
> 
> 5. You must have spent a lot of UK$$Kw on some hits and misses, what is the most worthwhile/bang for the buck/will do it again in another life  procedure?


Hi @Hautelady! There are so many pages to read now, I just look at the pictures! lol. Yes I like google and the tv news clips I do, as I can watch back on youtube and see how I looked in a particular month and year, before and after each plastic surgery procedure! There were times when I regretted plastic surgery as I looked really good September 2015 on tv weighing 99 lbs and February 2016 weighing 96 lbs when I was filmed for the Bargain Hunt tv game show, before I embarked on a 2-year journey to change everything from my eyes, nose, philtrum, chin, etc. The trigger was the death of my korean father that month and unresolved issues.

1. I had the hair transplant in the UK in 2014 on an impulse. I saw my photo next to Hugh Grant and had an ugly girl moment. I lost hair for several weeks until half my hair volume was gone. It has taken 4 years now to get back my thick hair. Thank goodness, as I need big hair to hide my 14.5 cm wide zygomas! My hair stylist said she saw lots of baby hair growing. lol. Yes my scalp must look like a chia pet now. I just found out a friend has a natural 12-12.5 cm face width! CD face! No need to hide her cheeks. And it is humanly possible to have a cd face!

2. I had 2 liposuctions in the UK to my tummy and inner thighs a long time ago. None to my face. The photos of me with a huge balloon face was from eating before filming as eating fills up the fat graft, like how one's tummy bloats after a big meal. The most I weighed was 104 lbs and then by December 2017 I dropped down to 95 lbs. But this led my face to sag and look square, so now I am sticking to 98-99 lbs. My square jaw is a saggy fat face. If I pulled up my skin, it shows a very sharp v line mandible (born that way but with a super long mandible) so the sonopet rounded the chin, ie reduced the tip of the long mandible. I think it is a combination of weight loss, prp fat graft to lift and reinflate my face and ulthera which has somehow tightened my lower face and jawline and lifted the skin like how I imagined a smas facelift would be like. I can't explain how the magic works but after seeing ulthera lift the mvp translator's face, I believe in the magic.

3. The sonopet shaved the pointy witchy chin at the end of a long mandible and made it u shaped, soft and round. Dr Seo gave me a v line chin with prp fat graft. I had no idea he was going to create a v line. I woke up and thought my chin looks different. Then I realised he was creating an asian ideal of beauty with where he injected the fat graft. big forehead, heart shaped face and v line chin. I think if you have a prominent chin or square mandible, do consider v line bone cutting if the square angles are due to bone. For me, the squareness was due to saggy old aged skin.

4. I had several ba's all in the UK. In the US they use US FDA approved implants and not rejects that get European approval and then get put in British women. My advice is ONLY get US FDA approved implants. My final BA is now a US FDA approved implant, allergan natrelle.

And finally, yes I would say 1. BA only with us fda implant so it lasts 10-20 years without rupture or leaking. That would have cost me just £3000 instead of a lot more on ruptured and leaking implants over and over again.
2. Only do tip rhinoplasty without implant or graft to lift up a droopy old nose. Do not reshape or redesign your entire nose. If you are born with a small nose, do not try to get a big nose and vice versa. That would have cost £3k only and not another £8910.
3. When you feel your face look flat and bony, fill it up with prp fat graft and keep drinking water. Forget regular fat graft. That would have cost 2 million and 1 million on top up and not 3.5 million wasted on regular fg.
4. Get a bullhorn philtrum reduction to improve your smile before you spend £10,000 on porcelain veneers. That would have cost £2450 and not £14450 as I paid for vermillion lip lift after the ps refused to do bullhorn last minute and paid for a new set of veneers for £10,000 as I did not realise in time it was my long phitrum that needed fixing. I just believed the dentist that a new set would improve my smile, not.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is how I looked in September 2015 (top right) and February 2016 (rest of the photo scenes from bargain hunt). I looked fine weighing between 96 and 99 lbs, except for a side profile that could be improved and my friends tried to stop me from getting plastic surgery as if you change your side profile, it changes your front. But once I started in March 2016 with rib rhinoplasty that shortened my nose too much, I had no choice but to continue until the face was balanced again. Some of you may feel regret for starting on your ps journey or changing one feature as inevitably it changes how your face looks and you may wish to have further plastic surgery to look more in harmony again. Remember there is no going back and no crying over spilled milk. You just need to know how to stop or no one will ever be able to recognise you as you keep changing your face until you run out of money! lol. And before you pay for v line surgery, lose weight to make sure you are not hiding a natural v line first. I can never look like these photos again as I have changed every aspect of my face over the past 2 years. I really like the bottom left photo with its natural big smile with my prior longer nose tip but my nose does not look like this anymore and my smile looks totally different. There truly is no going back with plastic surgery!


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> Here is how I looked in September 2015 (top right) and February 2016 (rest of the photo scenes from bargain hunt). I looked fine weighing between 96 and 99 lbs, except for a side profile that could be improved and my friends tried to stop me from getting plastic surgery as if you change your side profile, it changes your front. But once I started in March 2016 with rib rhinoplasty that shortened my nose too much, I had no choice but to continue until the face was balanced again. Some of you may feel regret for starting on your ps journey or changing one feature as inevitably it changes how your face looks and you may wish to have further plastic surgery to look more in harmony again. Remember there is no going back and no crying over spilled milk. You just need to know how to stop or no one will ever be able to recognise you as you keep changing your face until you run out of money! lol. And before you pay for v line surgery, lose weight to make sure you are not hiding a natural v line first. I can never look like these photos again as I have changed every aspect of my face over the past 2 years. There truly is no going back with plastic surgery!


You used to look Gorgeous. I wonder why you even opted plastic surgery. I'm feeling bad

P.S : And you're right once it's done it's done. I have seen that people lose their natural face beauty just to achieve looks that god did not provide them.


----------



## MissOrange

J't'aime said:


> You used to look Gorgeous. I wonder why you even opted plastic surgery. I'm feeling bad
> 
> P.S : And you're right once it's done it's done. I have seen that people lose their natural face beauty just to achieve looks that god did not provide them.


I know @J't'aime. I don't have a natural smile anymore. I think there may be others out there in my shoes, and eventually you end up accepting the new face after spending so much to recreate what Nature gave you. Thanks for feeling my pain and regret. But one cannot pine for the past and I am enjoying this new younger face. Why did I change such a pretty face? Because I didn't like my side profile. lol. Let that be a warning for guys and gals out there. It is super hard to have both a good side profile and a good front view! My new compromise is that my side and front views are good but my smile with teeth looks awful and unnatural! You just can't win. lol.


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> I know @J't'aime. I don't have a natural smile anymore. I think there may be others out there in my shoes, and eventually you end up accepting the new face after spending so much to recreate what Nature gave you. Thanks for feeling my pain and regret. But one cannot pine for the past and I am enjoying this new younger face. Why did I change such a pretty face? Because I didn't like my side profile. lol. Let that be a warning for guys and gals out there. It is super hard to have both a good side profile and a good front view! My new compromise is that my side and front views are good but my smile with teeth looks awful and unnatural! You just can't win. lol.


You're also critical about how you look just like me. And let me tell you that you used to look absolutely perfect without surgery. After seeing your pics i quickly went to Youtube and wrote the half title that was visible on the pic you just provided and i was able to see alot of your videos interviewing for various media houses specially with Matt. I quickly increased the video resolution to the higest just to see you more clearly and my my you looked like some Asian Goddness. And i mean it when i say this because i'm a very straightforward individual, i don't like sugar coating & say things just for the sake of it.

And, you're very right about front and side profile thing. Also, let me tell you that i saw your pics that you posted yesterday without any makeup(just false lashes) and your cheeks do look unnatural like they are being stuffed. I have had already told you this even before that fat grafting alone cannot make one look(one in their 40's and 50's) like they are in their 20's. It all boils down to the bones, as one gets older bone density keeps on getting decreased and bone is the only component that holds ones entire musculature and adjoined skin which further holds your entire structure of the body. So, even if one gets fat grafting done in their 50s they will end up looking unusual and more appropriately unnatural, that's because there isn't enough bony structure to hold and carve that fat.


----------



## Hautelady

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Hautelady! There are so many pages to read now, I just look at the pictures! lol. Yes I like google and the tv news clips I do, as I can watch back on youtube and see how I looked in a particular month and year, before and after each plastic surgery procedure! There were times when I regretted plastic surgery as I looked really good September 2015 on tv weighing 99 lbs and February 2016 weighing 96 lbs when I was filmed for the Bargain Hunt tv game show, before I embarked on a 2-year journey to change everything from my eyes, nose, philtrum, chin, etc. The trigger was the death of my korean father that month and unresolved issues.
> 
> 1. I had the hair transplant in the UK in 2014 on an impulse. I saw my photo next to Hugh Grant and had an ugly girl moment. I lost hair for several weeks until half my hair volume was gone. It has taken 4 years now to get back my thick hair. Thank goodness, as I need big hair to hide my 14.5 cm wide zygomas! My hair stylist said she saw lots of baby hair growing. lol. Yes my scalp must look like a chia pet now. I just found out a friend has a natural 12-12.5 cm face width! CD face! No need to hide her cheeks. And it is humanly possible to have a cd face!
> 
> 2. I had 2 liposuctions in the UK to my tummy and inner thighs a long time ago. None to my face. The photos of me with a huge balloon face was from eating before filming as eating fills up the fat graft, like how one's tummy bloats after a big meal. The most I weighed was 104 lbs and then by December 2017 I dropped down to 95 lbs. But this led my face to sag and look square, so now I am sticking to 98-99 lbs. My square jaw is a saggy fat face. If I pulled up my skin, it shows a very sharp v line mandible (born that way but with a super long mandible) so the sonopet rounded the chin, ie reduced the tip of the long mandible. I think it is a combination of weight loss, prp fat graft to lift and reinflate my face and ulthera which has somehow tightened my lower face and jawline and lifted the skin like how I imagined a smas facelift would be like. I can't explain how the magic works but after seeing ulthera lift the mvp translator's face, I believe in the magic.
> 
> 3. The sonopet shaved the pointy witchy chin at the end of a long mandible and made it u shaped, soft and round. Dr Seo gave me a v line chin with prp fat graft. I had no idea he was going to create a v line. I woke up and thought my chin looks different. Then I realised he was creating an asian ideal of beauty with where he injected the fat graft. big forehead, heart shaped face and v line chin. I think if you have a prominent chin or square mandible, do consider v line bone cutting if the square angles are due to bone. For me, the squareness was due to saggy old aged skin.
> 
> 4. I had several ba's all in the UK. In the US they use US FDA approved implants and not rejects that get European approval and then get put in British women. My advice is ONLY get US FDA approved implants. My final BA is now a US FDA approved implant, allergan natrelle.
> 
> And finally, yes I would say 1. BA only with us fda implant so it lasts 10-20 years without rupture or leaking. That would have cost me just £3000 instead of a lot more on ruptured and leaking implants over and over again.
> 2. Only do tip rhinoplasty without implant or graft to lift up a droopy old nose. Do not reshape or redesign your entire nose. If you are born with a small nose, do not try to get a big nose and vice versa. That would have cost £3k only and not another £8910.
> 3. When you feel your face look flat and bony, fill it up with prp fat graft and keep drinking water. Forget regular fat graft. That would have cost 2 million and 1 million on top up and not 3.5 million wasted on regular fg.
> 4. Get a bullhorn philtrum reduction to improve your smile before you spend £10,000 on porcelain veneers. That would have cost £2450 and not £14450 as I paid for vermillion lip lift after the ps refused to do bullhorn last minute and paid for a new set of veneers for £10,000 as I did not realise in time it was my long phitrum that needed fixing. I just believed the dentist that a new set would improve my smile, not.



Thanks for all the tips. 4 years to regrow hair is too long of a wait with no guarantee. 

The accountant in me has been adding up all your costs and it looks like you may have spent well over $100K on your ps over the years. And yet you like to shop in thrift shops! Kinda, eccentric , MissOrange.

When you say tiplasty rhino to increase tip height, don't you also need to balance the slope down to the bridge. Your nose from tip to bottom of bridge is like ski slope, mine is like bunny slope (not bulbous, not wide alar).


----------



## MissOrange

J't'aime said:


> You're also critical about how you look just like me. And let me tell you that you used to look absolutely perfect without surgery. After seeing your pics i quickly went to Youtube and wrote the half title that was visible on the pic you just provided and i was able to see alot of your videos interviewing for various media houses specially with Matt. I quickly increased the video resolution to the higest just to see you more clearly and my my you looked like some Asian Goddness. And i mean it when i say this because i'm a very straightforward individual, i don't like sugar coating & say things just for the sake of it.
> 
> And, you're very right about front and side profile thing. Also, let me tell you that i saw your pics that you posted yesterday without any makeup(just false lashes) and your cheeks do look unnatural like they are being stuffed. I have had already told you this even before that fat grafting alone cannot make one look(one in their 40's and 50's) like they are in their 20's. It all boils down to the bones, as one gets older bone density keeps on getting decreased and bone is the only component that holds ones entire musculature and adjoined skin which further holds your entire structure of the body. So, even if one gets fat grafting done in their 50s they will end up looking unusual and more appropriately unnatural, that's because there isn't enough bony structure to hold and carve that fat.


Thanks @J't'aime. What's done is done. And yes I hope I haven't caused a problem with chin shaving as I will need all the bone mass I can hang on to going into the next decade...60s!


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @J't'aime. What's done is done. And yes I hope I haven't caused a problem with chin shaving as I will need all the bone mass I can hang on to going into the next decade...60s!


Let's hope for the best [emoji4] & sorry for your daprs experience on fat grafting. But, they are good. I mean generally it's a consensus on pf that DA charges high from foreigners but apart from charges their work is good. Just because they are costly doesn't make them bad. And afterall it's about ones face which is way precious than anything else, right?


----------



## MissOrange

Hautelady said:


> Thanks for all the tips. 4 years to regrow hair is too long of a wait with no guarantee.
> 
> The accountant in me has been adding up all your costs and it looks like you may have spent well over $100K on your ps over the years. And yet you like to shop in thrift shops! Kinda, eccentric , MissOrange.
> 
> When you say tiplasty rhino to increase tip height, don't you also need to balance the slope down to the bridge. Your nose from tip to bottom of bridge is like ski slope, mine is like bunny slope (not bulbous, not wide alar).


Yes @Hautelady it does add up to well over $100k. I have stopped adding up the costs after it reached £86,000, bearing in mind this is over 2 decades and includes costs of ps when things go wrong. That's why I am trying very hard to maintain this prp fat graft and not spend any more money. I call it the chicken or the egg. I knew I wanted to do media but showed premature aging in my 30s and looked 50. I call it an investment and it paid off.

As for tip rhinoplasty I meant just raising the tip slightly if drooping. Mr Jan Stanek did this for me in my 30s and created the tip as seen in my 2015 and 2016 screenshots. His tip lasted 17 years before I had rib rhino and shortened the tip too much. The slope was straight before which suits a longer tip but now I have a barbie slope and nose tip.


----------



## MissOrange

J't'aime said:


> Let's hope for the best [emoji4] & sorry for your daprs experience on fat grafting. But, they are good. I mean generally it's a consensus on pf that DA charges high from foreigners but apart from charges their work is good. Just because they are costly doesn't make them bad. And afterall it's about ones face which is way precious than anything else, right?


@J't'aime I saw lots of books at DA on their b+a's for rhino and facial bone contouring with fat graft. Very impressive photos. But for me the amount of bruising, distortion and swelling left me thinking my face was handled too roughly during fat grafting.


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> @J't'aime I saw lots of books at DA on their b+a's for rhino and facial bone contouring with fat graft. Very impressive photos. But for me the amount of bruising, distortion and swelling left me thinking my face was handled too roughly during fat grafting.


I can understand but you see nobody is perfect and ps doctors work so hard each day to give the desired aesthetic look that their patients want. And doctors are also human beings and they also sometimes tend to do mistakes while running so much of errands. And i wasn't considering DA for fg but for rhino since i have bulbous nose and their b/a has impressed me alot. I have to make my decision quick because i'm too leaving for Korea this year.


----------



## MissOrange

J't'aime said:


> I can understand but you see nobody is perfect and ps doctors work so hard each day to give the desired aesthetic look that their patients want. And doctors are also human beings and they also sometimes tend to do mistakes while running so much of errands. And i wasn't considering DA for fg but for rhino since i have bulbous nose and their b/a has impressed me alot. I have to make my decision quick because i'm too leaving for Korea this year.


Good luck @J't'aime! I think DA for rhino should be fine but be prepared for a 'horrible GA experience' and you even sign their consent form which states it may be horrible. It was for me and I couldn't breathe when I awoke. I looked through their 4 volumes of b&a's. They have the most photos of any clinic I have seen.


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> Good luck @J't'aime! I think DA for rhino should be fine but be prepared for a 'horrible GA experience' and you even sign their consent form which states it may be horrible. It was for me and I couldn't breathe when I awoke. I looked through their 4 volumes of b&a's. They have the most photos of any clinic I have seen.


I just saw some old reviews(2016) about DA on pf and it scared me enough not to choose DA. Phew [emoji47] Thank god i'm saved!! Thank You Dr. Una for your warnings, i guess you were absolutely right about DA being horrible. Btw, which doc does rhino at PS101? and is he board certified? Thanks once again [emoji5]


----------



## MissOrange

J't'aime said:


> I just saw some old reviews(2016) about DA on pf and it scared me enough not to choose DA. Phew [emoji47] Thank god i'm saved!! Thank You Dr. Una for your warnings, i guess you were absolutely right about DA being horrible. Btw, which doc does rhino at PS101? and is he board certified? Thanks once again [emoji5]


Dr Paik at PS101 but do your own research. He seems to be reviewed well on pf but as there are so many shills, ie fake reviews, one never knows for sure. Try to find real former patients of his to chat with.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on amazing transformations. i found these images by chance as I was googling young korean actresses and was amazed at how she transformed! She is 42 yet looks 22 and wed a 23 year old man this year. It looks like she lost weight and may have had v line surgery. No wonder Korea is the ps capital of the world! That is the third 40s lady looking 20s dating a guy in his 20s that I have come across. I had a conversation with a guy in his 30s and thought he sounded so immature. I think I will stick to my 59 year old husband. lol. But it does raise an interesting point. Will you end up dating men half your age, if you end up looking half your age with plastic surgery? I have nightmare images of men finding out your true age and beating you up for deceiving them as there is such a societal bias against older women. I guess it means if you do choose to date a young man, come clean with your true age and if he still cares for you, then age is just a number. Well I still can't get my head around dating a guy my children's age. Eeww. Not for me.


----------



## Linlin18

^ Now we just need to find out where they did their surgeries :O Those results are amazing


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a 5 week update on prp fat graft. I weigh 99.8 lbs which is a lb too high, ie 3 lbs above my fg weight so I feel my cheeks are getting fuller and heavier. Will try to lose a lb. I haven't had a haircut since last year. See how the hair loves to grow!


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on amazing transformations. i found these images by chance as I was googling young korean actresses and was amazed at how she transformed! She is 42 yet looks 22 and wed a 23 year old man this year. It looks like she lost weight and may have had v line surgery. No wonder Korea is the ps capital of the world! That is the third 40s lady looking 20s dating a guy in his 20s that I have come across. I had a conversation with a guy in his 30s and thought he sounded so immature. I think I will stick to my 59 year old husband. lol. But it does raise an interesting point. Will you end up dating men half your age, if you end up looking half your age with plastic surgery? I have nightmare images of men finding out your true age and beating you up for deceiving them as there is such a societal bias against older women. I guess it means if you do choose to date a young man, come clean with your true age and if he still cares for you, then age is just a number. Well I still can't get my head around dating a guy my children's age. Eeww. Not for me.



W.T.F.???  How is this all even possible (on different levels)???  I'm sooooo green with envy!

I seriously need to work on attracting hot guys like the 23 y/o husband, hopefully with great maturity to equal the looks and income.  Feel free to call me shallow, but I deserve to find a young achiever than the young (and older) losers that I've wasted TWO DECADES of my precious youth and beauty on before.

Although older men are stereotypically more mature, there are some who still haven't got their s**t together at their older age.
Today, I overheard a couple in their early-mid 30s discussing commitment.  The pretty woman was very insistent in getting married within this year, but the average-looking boyfriend was making all sorts of excuses not to make it happen e.g. his low income, no savings, need to finance his parents' debts and living expenses, get their approval for him to marry.  His girlfriend agreed to save up together and get married on a cheap budget.  She also asked if she married him, would he be able to support her financially afterwards or would he expect her to finance his parents as well? The boyfriend avoided answering all of this, but complained about the very cheap budget she suggested for a ring and wedding dress, and then he mentioned his ex (who found a new boyfriend).
I had to bite my tongue and stop myself from interrupting them, but I should have told the pretty woman not to downgrade herself with this douchebag of a boyfriend, and just go find someone else that is more deserving of her time!
Probably that's why things didn't work out with his ex.


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> W.T.F.???  How is this all even possible (on different levels)???  I'm sooooo green with envy!
> 
> I seriously need to work on attracting hot guys like the 24 y/o husband, hopefully with great maturity to equal the looks and income.  Feel free to call me shallow, but I deserve to find a young achiever than the young (and older) losers that I've wasted TWO DECADES of my precious youth and beauty on before.
> 
> Although older men are stereotypically more mature, there are some who still haven't got their s**t together at their older age.
> Today, I overheard a couple in their early-mid 30s discussing commitment.  The pretty woman was very insistent in getting married within this year, but the average-looking boyfriend was making all sorts of excuses not to make it happen e.g. his low income, no savings, need to finance his parents' debts and living expenses, get their approval for him to marry.  His girlfriend agreed to save up together and get married on a cheap budget.  She also asked if she married him, would he be able to support her financially afterwards or would he expect her to finance his parents as well? The boyfriend avoided answering all of this, but complained about the very cheap budget she suggested for a ring and wedding dress, and then he mentioned his ex (who found a new boyfriend).
> I had to bite my tongue and stop myself from interrupting them, but I should have told the pretty woman not to downgrade herself with this douchebag of a boyfriend, and just go find someone else that is more deserving of her time!
> Probably that's why things didn't work out with his ex.


Hi @missy_sana I would love for all these transformed actresses to just tell us who did what so we can copy. Would make life a lot easier and avoid hit and miss surgeries. I came across www.bearlovebeauty.WordPress.com another ps transformation! I thought I want to book zygoma reduction with Dr oh at Regen and did a collage of her face and mine. Nope my zygoma is not as big so logically I am not a candidate. 

Then I saw a Japanese horror film about a female plastic surgeon and a rich client who kept asking for different ps procedures and then asked for her eyes and nose to be redone and then complained of the swelling and it went on and on. I thought wow. It is really hard to stop getting more and more ps. But because it was a horror film, the client started stalking the plastic surgeon and the silicone implant extruded from her nose while laughing. The movie ended with the one question ps patients keep asking...."Am I beautiful?" Food for thought!


----------



## MissOrange

For those who can't read 50 pages, here is a collage summary of how Dr Seo of MVP took an ugly old 50 year old (top right photo I sent mvp via kakao asking for help), rejuvenated the eyes in 2016 (top right and bottom left) just like the eyes on their website (bottom right) ie Dr Seo delivered, and then in Feb 2018 completed the transformation with full fat transfer and ulthera (top left). If you are old like I am, please only ask for Dr Seo at MVP to transform you into a swan. He is so popular, the clinic may ask you to see Dr Hyun the anti-aging specialist for older ladies or Dr Lim the new addition, instead, so you have to fight for your life to get Dr Seo, the artistic creator of beauty! Seeing is believing and I could never have imagined he could create this beautiful face on me. 3 million won for revision des, ptosis and lid fat graft (2016 low season price, now 3.8 million in 2018 high season) and 2 million won for prp full face fat graft is value for money and way cheaper than a smas facelift! Remember the new theory is aging is not due to gravity but the loss of deep facial fat.


----------



## MissOrange

Yay I can smile again! I think the rib under my columella has absorbed so my skin can go in and the smile looks natural again. My pre maxilla area seems more receded which is fine as I can now smile and it does not feel tethered under my nose.


----------



## Yiseul

I don’t like to judge buuuuuut marriage with 10 or more years difference is “fraud” to me. If it is 18 years difference, seems more disgusting. +that woman looks sooo plastic. Natural look is greatly appreciated by me, at least moderate level of plastic look can be okay but... For me naturally aged woman would look better than this china doll.


----------



## MissOrange

Yiseul said:


> I don’t like to judge buuuuuut marriage with 10 or more years difference is “fraud” to me. If it is 18 years difference, seems more disgusting. +that woman looks sooo plastic. Natural look is greatly appreciated by me, at least moderate level of plastic look can be okay but... For me naturally aged woman would look better than this china doll.


Aww @Yiseul my husband is only 8 years older. No marriage fraud. I used a makeup app to turn my hair platinum. In real life I look like the photo in the previous post. I am getting comfortable not wearing blue contact lens. Slowly embracing my korean background but it is hard living in a country where most of the people have blue eyes. Tonight I am going out with natural brown eyes. And I think on Sunday I shall be filmed with brown eyes for BBC.


----------



## jsorchid

Let us know where we can watch you MissOrange!


----------



## Yiseul

MissOrange said:


> Aww @Yiseul my husband is only 8 years older. No marriage fraud. I used a makeup app to turn my hair platinum. In real life I look like the photo in the previous post. I am getting comfortable not wearing blue contact lens. Slowly embracing my korean background but it is hard living in a country where most of the people have blue eyes. Tonight I am going out with natural brown eyes. And I think on Sunday I shall be filmed with brown eyes for BBC.


Dear MissOrange, I think your husband is caucasian aight? Asians look younger than actual age comparing to caucasians. So you and husband would look 2-3 years apart and it’s totally normal.
Also IMO you look more beautiful with your brown eyes. So be confident during your filming!


----------



## MissOrange

jsorchid said:


> Let us know where we can watch you MissOrange!


Hi @jsorchid, it is for the BBC big question show debating the NHS. It will air April 15 at 10 am in the uk. I usually put my tv interviews on my youtube Channel.  That's how I could see that weighing 99.6 lbs or over a bmi of 18.7 causes my fat graft to give me balloon face. Tv takes no prisoners.


----------



## MissOrange

Ladies have asked for an update on ulthera so I made a collage of my face with a big smile yesterday (after ulthera and prp face fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP Feb 2018) vs top right in October 2017 (after 3 x DAPRS fat grafts between 2016 and 2017) and there is clearly an improvement to the jaw (more v line) and face (more in harmony). DAPRS fat graft gave me a rounder face with fat cheeks and shapeless round jaw vs MVP fat graft and ulthera gave me a slender v line face. Also the 99p ebay china glasses beat the designer pair hands down. lol. My weight is 99 lbs in all the photos.

And ladies who have seen @tomie's transformation all with Dr Seo say she looks like a natural beauty! I can't wait to see myself! I felt really bad reading the rs reviews of botched fat transfers in USA. I think it is a no brainer, cheapest in Korea and the best artistic ps, Dr Seo! Thank you! I keep marvelling at his creation.


----------



## missy_sana

Very nice!  Noticeable difference there.

But in my opinion, glasses generally seem to have an "ageing" effect, compared with not wearing any.  The upside is looking intelligent when wearing them.


----------



## MOTTY26

Beautiful Ms.O! U look so young for your age. hehe BTW, did u had a botox on your jaw? 

I think that look is perfect if u are going to be interviewed, professional look.

Do u have a pic of u not wearing your glasses with different hairstyle please (without the fringe).  I think u will look younger.

Thx, congrats 2 u!


----------



## heylo

MissOrange said:


> I felt really bad reading the rs reviews of botched fat transfers in USA.


The US really build out the lateral zygomatic arches and jaw i.e they do the opposite to Korea. So the face tends to look more angular with strong, prominent features after fat  There are some horrors there though, and from Turkey in particular. One poor girl had 40mls in her chin and jaw alone!

Fat graft placement in the central/mid face as they do in Korea gives Asian face types that baby face look. But this same placement does not do too well on Caucasian faces. Caucasians look younger with refined rather than rounded contours but it's a balancing act. Shadows age the face if they're in the wrong place and the skin quality is poor.

With fat it's just better to find someone who does the style of fat that appeals to your own aesthetic taste. Luckily MVP have a lot of pics to go by so you can get a good sense of their style and placement preferences - most US sites have very few examples so you go in with no idea!


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Beautiful Ms.O! U look so young for your age. hehe BTW, did u had a botox on your jaw?
> 
> I think that look is perfect if u are going to be interviewed, professional look.
> 
> Do u have a pic of u not wearing your glasses with different hairstyle please (without the fringe).  I think u will look younger.
> 
> Thx, congrats 2 u!


Hi @MOTTY26 no I have not tried botox on my jaw. I have been watching lots of ulthera youtube clips to learn more about what I had. It seems the ultrasound high energy zaps the smas layer so acts on the same layer as a smas facelift and results show up to 180 days later but most by 3 months. I am almost 6 weeks post. Excited to see the 3 month mark result.


----------



## loves

@MissOrange I am curious to know the maintenance for ulthera. Obviously it is not permanent like all laser treatments. My doc says annually but I am wondering what is your doc's recommendation.


----------



## MissOrange

loves said:


> @MissOrange I am curious to know the maintenance for ulthera. Obviously it is not permanent like all laser treatments. My doc says annually but I am wondering what is your doc's recommendation.


Dr Seo did ask me when I can come back to korea but with it being so far away I think annually. I have been exposing myself to a lot of cosmic radiation with all the longhaul flights to korea! Although ideally I want to hold off on any more ps until I am 60! I shall decide next year depending on what my face looks like then. It is very hard to keep flying back. I like everyone else would love for it to be the final end result.


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> Dr Seo did ask me when I can come back to korea but with it being so far away I think annually. I have been exposing myself to a lot of cosmic radiation with all the longhaul flights to korea! Although ideally I want to hold off on any more ps until I am 60! I shall decide next year depending on what my face looks like then. It is very hard to keep flying back. I like everyone else would love for it to be the final end result.



Surely you can find a good doctor to do only Ultherapy in the UK can't you? Although I can imagine how much more expensive it is there than in Asia.


----------



## Starry Eyes

MissOrange said:


> Hi @MOTTY26 no I have not tried botox on my jaw. I have been watching lots of ulthera youtube clips to learn more about what I had. It seems the ultrasound high energy zaps the smas layer so acts on the same layer as a smas facelift and results show up to 180 days later but most by 3 months. I am almost 6 weeks post. Excited to see the 3 month mark result.



Hi again MissOrange,

I love how graceful you are when you reply everyone who shoots off their opinions about your surgery choices.. it may well be the best indicator of your real age 

I just did Ulthera almost 2 wks ago and boy did it hurt despite the numbing cream! My jawline and jowls are still quite swollen and sore and I'm praying that it subsides soon cos my lower face currently looks bigger and worse than before! *cry* 

I looked like a chipmunk for the first 4 days! Thankfully now I look more normal but I can still see and feel a swollen bump on either side of my jawline and the cheek /jowl area above it is puffy and tender. I also got cheek and laugh line fillers to fill out my face but I can't really tell how much things have improved due to the very frustrating swelling. Counting down to the point where I can start seeing results instead of worrying... praying that happens in another week!


----------



## MissOrange

Starry Eyes said:


> Hi again MissOrange,
> 
> I love how graceful you are when you reply everyone who shoots off their opinions about your surgery choices.. it may well be the best indicator of your real age
> 
> I just did Ulthera almost 2 wks ago and boy did it hurt despite the numbing cream! My jawline and jowls are still quite swollen and sore and I'm praying that it subsides soon cos my lower face currently looks bigger and worse than before! *cry*
> 
> I looked like a chipmunk for the first 4 days! Thankfully now I look more normal but I can still see and feel a swollen bump on either side of my jawline and the cheek /jowl area above it is puffy and tender. I also got cheek and laugh line fillers to fill out my face but I can't really tell how much things have improved due to the very frustrating swelling. Counting down to the point where I can start seeing results instead of worrying... praying that happens in another week!


Hi @Starry Eyes, I totally feel for you! Dr Seo started with ulthera and yep the pain is excruciating. It was like zap, ow! Zap, ow! Zap, OW!!! Zap, please put me to sleep! I was begging by now. Then I was put to sleep, ulthera finished and got my prp fat transfer done while I was knocked out. I don't know how a person can tolerate the high energy zaps without being completely out! As for swelling, try wearing a compression bandage like the one I took a photo of a while back and ice packs to the face. I usually alternate with one ice pack in the freezer and one on my face. I can't bear swelling. Avoid any salty foods or processed foods as the salt content drives water straight into your face! Buy arnica cream on amazon or ebay to apply to the bruises. It speeds up the 2 week recovery for bruises. And drink pineapple juice, high in bromelain. One always forgets the pain, swelling and bruising after plastic surgery! As a plastic surgery veteran I am forever fighting the battle against swelling postop. Sucking on a popsicle is also good as it cools the face and reduces swelling. Or eating a tub of haagen daz as one is so depressed the swelling is taking so long to go. Have shed my share of tears postop with the DA monster face. Also try those lymphatic draining facial massage exercises on youtube. I like the surgical procedures where you wake up and voila perfect! That happened with bullhorn liplift but that was because it was done under local so was a minor op. Otherwise it is a waiting process for the results to show up. I hate that expression no pain, no gain but alas it is so true. What we women put up with to rejuvenate and not fall to pieces.


----------



## MissOrange

loves said:


> Surely you can find a good doctor to do only Ultherapy in the UK can't you? Although I can imagine how much more expensive it is there than in Asia.


After I heard that a Brit Asian got a bad fat graft job for £7000 (GULP) in the UK, I am now only entrusting my face to the best korean plastic surgeons. In the UK they even have lay people administering ulthera and you never know if it is actually ulthera or a machine that is similar. Also it is important to know the depth to zap so I think even for this noninvasive procedure, I would only entrust a doctor or more than that, an artistic skilled plastic surgeon. I heard there are many negative reviews on ulthera on rs so only the best surgeon for me for now.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on going platinum blonde. Here I was tempted to go platinum blonde after the makeup plus app made me look totally different, when my current fave Korean actress Han Ye Seul's IG popped up with her new hair colour...platinum blonde! So I asked my hair stylist how can this be done professionally. She said it would take a year and several hair dyes to get my hair as light as blonde and would cost £100s. Hm. I thought I am the £5 or $7 dye in a box type of person and no way can I wait a year. It looks like Garnier is the brand that seems to have cornered the market on taking brunettes to blonde. I am still too chicken to try but it does seem to work on youtube vloggers.


----------



## Gats

@MissOrange are you still wearing the head compression bandage? Or do you no longer need to do that due to Ulthera treatment?

BTW there are many reports of unwanted facial fat/volume loss due to Ulthera on realself so that treatment in the wrong hands can definitely do damage, I'd definitely stick with going to a place you trust for it.


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> @MissOrange are you still wearing the head compression bandage? Or do you no longer need to do that due to Ulthera treatment?
> 
> BTW there are many reports of unwanted facial fat/volume loss due to Ulthera on realself so that treatment in the wrong hands can definitely do damage, I'd definitely stick with going to a place you trust for it.


Hi @Gats, I keep my compression bandage for emergencies. I think anyone getting fat grafting, ulthera, bone contouring should always have a compression bandage with velcro closure at hand if needed. I wore it for a day once recently when I felt my face may be sagging. I have noticed that first thing in the morning is the worst as my face is dehydrated and tongue dry when I wake up. But once I hydrate up, my face looks fine again. Thank goodness I need to look good for nights out as by then I have drunk a litre of water and I now make it a habit of drinking a bottle of water before I arrive at an event and also 2 glasses of water after 2 glasses of champagne. And yes I am forever going to the loo! My bladder is tiny! That way my skin is positively glowing instead of red and shrivelled from the dehydrating alcohol. Donor fat cells still behave like fat cells, going up or down depending on what you eat or drink. My face felt really tight initially after ulthera but seems to have loosened a bit now so am hoping it will tighten up again by the 3 month mark. I was 99.2 lbs yesterday and want to get back down to 98.6 which is exactly 2 lbs above fat graft weight.

I get filmed today at 2 pm so I shall bring a bottle of water and down it before the camera starts rolling. It is a hard balance with fluids as even coffee is dehydrating as anything with caffeine is a diuretic! And I tell myself to bring my hair forward to hide my cheeks. lol. Let's hope I remember!


----------



## xwanderlust

Hello MissOrange,

I saw your thread how to look 50 to 20 years old! I was wondering after recovery in SK and going back home to the airport, do the people question why you look different at the SK airport or is plastic surgery so common, they just let you go through? If so, what about when you get home to your home countries airport? Did your home countries airport ask why you look different?

Warm regards,

xwanderlust


----------



## MissOrange

xwanderlust said:


> Hello MissOrange,
> 
> I saw your thread how to look 50 to 20 years old! I was wondering after recovery in SK and going back home to the airport, do the people question why you look different at the SK airport or is plastic surgery so common, they just let you go through? If so, what about when you get home to your home countries airport? Did your home countries airport ask why you look different?
> 
> Warm regards,
> 
> xwanderlust


Hi @xwanderlust, my advice is choose a male immigration officer at the airport. They either say is that you? And you say yes and they wave you through. Or they just glance at you and let you through. It is women who will stop and scrutinise your face! Then in the UK I failed the e passport recognition machine but the male officer let me through when I said my bruises were from plastic surgery. I still have my very old photo in my passport as I keep changing my face with plastic surgery so no point in changing my passport until the 10 year mark. I seriously look nothing like my passport photo! Hilarious.


----------



## missy_sana

Same here!  Unbelievably, I breezed through immigration easily at both Incheon airport and my hometown airport as a teenage dark-haired sung-gui, and nobody batted an eyelid, despite that my passport photo showed a blonde Caucasian-looking lady!

Unlucky for some, however...


----------



## MissOrange

Okay I have now researched going from brown to blonde on youtube and found a really helpful vlogger who did just that with garnier olia b+++ which seems to be the most popular dye to go blonde on youtube. Soooooo tomorrow I shall buy my first box and start. The vlogger says she needed 3 boxes. She started out quite dark brown then went to brown with loreal which is where I am starting and then 3 x £5 boxes with breaks of the garnier extreme blonde dye.

Here are screenshots at each stage of her hair dye process. Wish me luck tomorrow! Hope my hair does not fall out or get too damaged. I have a tub of loreal repair conditioner, argan oil and can buy coconut oil too.

My hair is at the bottom picture stage and then will look strawberry blonde in the top picture tomorrow hopefully and then after the second or third box will go from straw coloured blonde (second picture) to natural blonde (fourth picture).

I got a haircut on Monday so will have less hair to dye.


----------



## J't'aime

missy_sana said:


> Same here!  Unbelievably, I breezed through immigration easily at both Incheon airport and my hometown airport as a teenage dark-haired sung-gui, and nobody batted an eyelid, despite that my passport photo showed a blonde Caucasian-looking lady!
> 
> Unlucky for some, however...


who are these in the pic? They all look scary specially the girl lol


----------



## missy_sana

J't'aime said:


> who are these in the pic? They all look scary specially the girl lol



This photo was all over the news: three Chinese girls were stopped at (Incheon?) airport and not allowed to board their plane back home, because their balloon faces look nothing like their passport photos!

As @MissOrange would say, they should've gone to Dr Seo!


----------



## sanarae

@MissOrange you look fantastic! I messaged MVP, I'm willing to be featured if they can fix my ptosis and restore my eyeshape... I've never seen a surgeon in US/EU who can sew back wide tapered eyes like South Korean surgeons. I saw myself in a photo a few days ago and I looked so tired/old because of the droopy eyes. Not bright and pretty. I'll definitely consult with Dr Seo. Do they do brow lifts, do you know? My brows are droopy too, so it makes my face look bigger because the eyebrows are crowded into the droopy eyes, if that makes sense.
I am presently looking for a surgeon who can deal with my revision rhino - as an Eurasian I have (or had, rather) a thin Caucasian nose bridge and finely tuned tip, but since the years have passed I think I need alar base reduction (one side has gone much wider than the other) - except not a lot of surgeons will do it on a Caucasian-type nose - and I am worried that perhaps Korean surgeons aren't as experienced with draping thin easily aging Caucasian skin (as opposed to Asian skin which doesn't age: my mother is an example) on whatever travesty my initial surgeon did. (Like how thread-lifts don't work as well on thin skin in certain ethnic types.) And I don't want a revision with a wide bridge either, like with certain grafts. I would like (actually, need) a TV-slim, cut nose, honestly. I have all my septum cartilage thankfully so I shouldn't need rib is what I was told...Ion (UK) does some marvellous revision jobs (yours is nice!), I heard he's shutting down for the moment and not taking on new patients?
I saw about Han Ye-Seul, she's one of my favorite Hallyu actresses. The drama 'Birth of A Beauty' really kickstarted my vow to feel good in my body and face again. And she's changed so much! BTW it's v difficult if you have Asian hair to go platinum - you need an expert bc it has to be bleached first for optimal results - there's an Asian lady who writes for ITG called Sable; she detailed the process of going from jet black to light blonde...
I'll PM you the fillers I was talking about btw. As always thanks for being so open and honest.


----------



## MOTTY26

Goth_Quinee said:


> I dont mean to sound rude but isnt this a Asian Plastic Surgery forum, why are you posting about your hair and dyeing/cutting your hair?



Its her own thread, she can post whatever she wants, besides she also posted and contributed a lot with regards to her PS experience here.

U can create your own thread and post whatever u want.

Try it, its free, instead of b*tching around.


----------



## missy_sana

MOTTY26 said:


> Try it, its free, instead of b*tching around.



So how much does it cost to b*tch around?  Where are the best places to get it done? ;-D


----------



## MissOrange

I was all set to buy Garnier Olia when viola xoxo on rs kindly shared she uses Garnier Nutrisse Ultra Color Lb1 Ultra Light Cool Blonde specifically formulated for dark hair but then realised it is only available in the US. My OH has been giving me a hard time saying he doesn't like asians with blonde hair as it is too fake. So I decided to do more research and found a korean vlogger who bleached her hair blonde. She highlighted the problems and how it took 8 bleaches to match her roots to her blonde hair. 

Looks like bleach changed the texture of her hair. So....I have bought 2 blonde wigs to try out and see if I dare go out looking blonde! lol. When the wigs arrive I shall take selfies. Maybe this is what Kylie Kardashian wears? Girls in their 20s are more likely to experiment with their hair. And ladies in their 50s can experiment with hair dye as we have to use colourant to cover the grey anyway.


----------



## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> @MissOrange you look fantastic! I messaged MVP, I'm willing to be featured if they can fix my ptosis and restore my eyeshape... I've never seen a surgeon in US/EU who can sew back wide tapered eyes like South Korean surgeons. I saw myself in a photo a few days ago and I looked so tired/old because of the droopy eyes. Not bright and pretty. I'll definitely consult with Dr Seo. Do they do brow lifts, do you know? My brows are droopy too, so it makes my face look bigger because the eyebrows are crowded into the droopy eyes, if that makes sense.
> I am presently looking for a surgeon who can deal with my revision rhino - as an Eurasian I have (or had, rather) a thin Caucasian nose bridge and finely tuned tip, but since the years have passed I think I need alar base reduction (one side has gone much wider than the other) - except not a lot of surgeons will do it on a Caucasian-type nose - and I am worried that perhaps Korean surgeons aren't as experienced with draping thin easily aging Caucasian skin (as opposed to Asian skin which doesn't age: my mother is an example) on whatever travesty my initial surgeon did. (Like how thread-lifts don't work as well on thin skin in certain ethnic types.) And I don't want a revision with a wide bridge either, like with certain grafts. I would like (actually, need) a TV-slim, cut nose, honestly. I have all my septum cartilage thankfully so I shouldn't need rib is what I was told...Ion (UK) does some marvellous revision jobs (yours is nice!), I heard he's shutting down for the moment and not taking on new patients?
> I saw about Han Ye-Seul, she's one of my favorite Hallyu actresses. The drama 'Birth of A Beauty' really kickstarted my vow to feel good in my body and face again. And she's changed so much! BTW it's v difficult if you have Asian hair to go platinum - you need an expert bc it has to be bleached first for optimal results - there's an Asian lady who writes for ITG called Sable; she detailed the process of going from jet black to light blonde...
> I'll PM you the fillers I was talking about btw. As always thanks for being so open and honest.


Hi @sanarae, you don't have to be featured as mvp prices are cheap to begin with. I object to Gng quoting a ridiculously huge amount 18 million for revision rib rhino and then saying 13.5 million if you do videos, reviews, photos etc. 13.5 million is also a rip off price in my opinion and it pressures girls to write reviews and have their photos used. Look at my nose! Does it look like it needs fixing? Heck no! 

MVP had an offer of 100,000 won gift certificate which is like $100 for past patients to send in after selfies for them to use. I think this is fine as they only ever saw me for a few days after surgery as I flew home early each time. This way you are not pressured to have your photos used just to get a discount on a rip off GNG price.


----------



## J't'aime

MOTTY26 said:


> Its her own thread, she can post whatever she wants, besides she also posted and contributed a lot with regards to her PS experience here.
> 
> U can create your own thread and post whatever u want.
> 
> Try it, its free, instead of b*tching around.


Calm down, alright!! Whatever she said is true and she clearly mentioned that she does not wish to sound rude. Now, what are you trying to prove here??? 

We all know that Miss Orange has contributed alot on this forum but this forum is only and only for the discussion of Asian plastic surgery and nothing else, so, yes Miss Orange is going against the forum guidelines but it is goth_Queenie's goodwill that she's warning Miss Orange when she could have plainly reported her. 

It would be much better if you take the side of what is right instead of taking any people's side like a side kick.


----------



## MissOrange

This forum is entitled asian plastic surgery and cosmetic procedures so not solely asian plastic surgery. I have learned of a feature called 'ignore member'. This enables nasty posts to go invisible to me. I am too old to deal with petty posters, shills and sock puppets. I am a real person and if you don't want to read my thread, there are plenty of other threads to peruse. Hair is an important feature to discuss as part of rejuvenation. If I click ignore member you won't be able to contact me for free ps advice and I don't particularly want to selflessly help a rude poster.


----------



## J't'aime

MissOrange said:


> This forum is entitled asian plastic surgery and cosmetic procedures so not solely asian plastic surgery. I have learned of a feature called 'ignore member'. This enables nasty posts to go invisible to me. I am too old to deal with petty posters, shills and sock puppets. I am a real person and if you don't want to read my thread, there are plenty of other threads to peruse. Hair is an important feature to discuss as part of rejuvenation. If I click ignore member you won't be able to contact me for free ps advice and I don't particularly want to selflessly help a rude poster.


Dear Dr. Una, i'm sorry if i have hurt you in anyway as it was totally unintentional. Now, as far as cosmetic procedures are concerned then i guess it is more related to non- invasive procedures like fillers, botox etc... and yes hair coloring might be a cosmetic thing but different from "cosmetic procedures" referred to in this context.


----------



## MOTTY26

[QUOTE="J't'aime, post: 32200896, member: 631681"

It would be much better if you take the side of what is right instead of taking any people's side like a side kick.[/QUOTE]

Dont tell me what to do or what to say here,  I am entitled to post my opinion  as much as u are.   Im just stating what is obvious, Ms. O is just sharing her experience,  I dont think that would be an big issue with the Mods here.. if it does then Im sure the Mods will be kind enough to give a reminder.


----------



## Luv n bags

I hope I am not breaking any rules or stepping on land mines...
MissOrange, your hair is so nice and healthy right now.  And you want to keep the ethnic, Korean look, right? In my opinion, you would be doing yourself such a disservice by dyeing your hair blond.  The pics you posted of the other Asian gals with blond hair...to me, it doesn’t look good.
I have blond highlights, and my hair is so dry! I can only imagine how dry and crispy it would be if I bleached it.
You are beautiful the way you are.  I hope you can enjoy this look for awhile, without wanting to change every little thing about your looks.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I bit the bullet and tried the extreme blonde bleach garnier olia b+++..and after I had applied it the 2 blonde wigs arrived! Lol. OK so I totally messed up the application. I freaked out as I could not get the thick colourant out of the blonde bottle through the pin hole spout so took off the cap and stuck my fingers in the bottle and smeared it over my hair. Should have started at the bottom, then back of head then top last as it takes faster on top. For now I am a red head on top and brown at the bottom indoors although under daylight it looks better and more like dark blonde highlights so I could rest my hair for a week or tomorrow may try box 2. It takes a lot of courage not knowing how it will turn out and if it will ever turn blonde. I was braced for orange from box 1. Here are the afters although my hair is still wet and one with the wig on.


----------



## MOTTY26

Goth_Quinee said:


> Dont tell me what to do or what to say here,  I am entitled to post my opinion  as much as u are.   Im just stating what is obvious, Ms. O is just sharing her experience,  I dont think that would be an big issue with the Mods here.. if it does then Im sure the Mods will be kind enough to give a reminder.




why did you keep editing this post, this is the third time you've edited it. Regardless, You are correct. The mods will review and see the foul language, and the edits you've made.[/QUOTE]

I can edit my post as much as I want to.  Its non of your business.  Go ahead let the Mod review my post, of course I know they can read each post I made.  LOL


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> why did you keep editing this post, this is the third time you've edited it. Regardless, You are correct. The mods will review and see the foul language, and the edits you've made.



@MOTTY26 hit the ignore member button on these 2 new members. I have done so on these 2 disruptors who have nothing productive to contribute to my thread. We both have been contributors to pf for years helping the community and the pf guidance said just to report a post if it breaches the terms and conditions and not to engage. The mods decide and they do not like to be bothered unless it is a serious breach.

To look younger after plastic surgery, it also means to choose the right colour and tone for your hair or you could look older with warm tones on a pale complexion. I need cool tones to suit my complexion. I think this lighter colour makes me look even younger.


----------



## MissOrange

My hair has now dried and looks different depending on lighting. Very exciting. Can't wait to try box 2. Might even need to buy box 3. It is like getting a cosmetic procedure for only £6 a box! I shall save the platinum blonde wig for Halloween. I think with modern hair colourants even dark haired ladies can be blondes!


----------



## missy_sana

@MissOrange , be careful not to massage in hair dye or bleach on the scalp, or even let it marinate on the scalp too long, because from experience of home-bleaching hair blonde, not only will the hair become like dry hay, but also the damaged sensitive scalp will develop long-term seborrheic dermatitis and hair loss.  Ask someone at home or a salon professional to help you "paint" the hairdye in layers or sections like they would do for a full-head of highlights, and avoid touching the scalp!

Good luck surprising your husband with your new look! :-p


----------



## MissOrange

It has been 6.5 weeks post prp fat graft and ulthera and I am stopping at 1 extreme blonde bleach box for now. This colour seems to make my face look even more alabaster. I like it...for now until I get bored and can try the second box.

Here are update photos with and without makeup. I think my hair has come out a golden brown. It looks lighter in the sun or over exposes selfie.


----------



## Tivo

Are you able to make a big smile?


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## gazoo

You look great. I admit to really being curious about what your beautiful lips would look like with a nude lip. Can you try one and post? Oh and BTW, I think you look even better with your natural eye color. It's far more "exotic" and beautiful than the colored contacts to my eye. 

Your face plumpness is goals!


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> You look great. I admit to really being curious about what your beautiful lips would look like with a nude lip. Can you try one and post? Oh and BTW, I think you look even better with your natural eye color. It's far more "exotic" and beautiful than the colored contacts to my eye.
> 
> Your face plumpness is goals!


Hi @gazoo, the top no makeup photo is my natural nude lips. I agree I am liking the natural brown eyes! What I discovered is that we have to work out our skin undertones! 1. Are you veins green or blue? Mine are greeny blue so maybe I am a neutral but in yellow light it looks green so maybe warm. Blue veins are cool undertones. 2. Does gold or silver jewellery look better against your skin? Gold, definitely. That means I am a warm tone. 3. Look at your makeup and clothes. I noticed I buy mac bubblegum pink which is a bright pink, have a fuscia pink lk bennett dress, have a fuscia pink hoodie...oh my goodness I am definitely a warm tone! This means that black and natural dark brown cool hair colours made me look boring and sallow! This extreme blonde bleach turned my hair copper and strangely my complexion looks healthier and glowing! Blue contacts are for cool tones so my warmer brown eyes look better. I now have to go through the rest of my makeup and clothes and declutter the wrong tones!

Another cosmetic tip is that koreans like small cupid bow lips and westerners like big lips. Depending on the look you want to achieve, lip liner pencil can create small lips or big lips. Foundation over the lips camouflages the lips so you can then start drawing the ideal lips.


----------



## MissOrange

Tivo said:


> Are you able to make a big smile?


Yes @Tivo, I think it is force of habit that I take selfies with closed lips. Catwalk models always look so serious and are told not to smile. In America a big smile is regarded as friendly and approachable. In the UK people walk around serious faced. lol. And in Korea girls like to do a baby smile. I should show off the uber expensive porcelain veneers which cost me £15,000! I know total madness. Actually I should not have got a second set for £10,000 as the original set fot £5000 done 14 years ago were just fine but then again, veneers are supposed to only last 10 years so I have bought myself some more time. I bet in 6 years top cosmetic dentists will charge £20,000! Cosmetic industry prices are mushrooming so much. I remember a time when prices were much lower. I guess the message is to get your procedures done asap as by the time you are in your 50s it will cost double or triple.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Hi @gazoo, the top no makeup photo is my natural nude lips. I agree I am liking the natural brown eyes! What I discovered is that we have to work out our skin undertones! 1. Are you veins green or blue? Mine are greeny blue so maybe I am a neutral but in yellow light it looks green so maybe warm. Blue veins are cool undertones. 2. Does gold or silver jewellery look better against your skin? Gold, definitely. That means I am a warm tone. 3. Look at your makeup and clothes. I noticed I buy mac bubblegum pink which is a bright pink, have a fuscia pink lk bennett dress, have a fuscia pink hoodie...oh my goodness I am definitely a warm tone! This means that black and natural dark brown cool hair colours made me look boring and sallow! This extreme blonde bleach turned my hair copper and strangely my complexion looks healthier and glowing! Blue contacts are for cool tones so my warmer brown eyes look better. I now have to go through the rest of my makeup and clothes and declutter the wrong tones!
> 
> Another cosmetic tip is that koreans like small cupid bow lips and westerners like big lips. Depending on the look you want to achieve, lip liner pencil can create small lips or big lips. Foundation over the lips camouflages the lips so you can then start drawing the ideal lips.




Lol, @MissOrange ! 

Of all the cosmetic enhancements and procedures you went through over the years, it's funny that you now feel your wardrobe also needs a complete makeover!  

 I hear that the charity shops in Chelsea, Kensington & similar posh postcodes are retail therapy heaven for discount designer wear and haute-couture?  Is that true?

Apologies in advance if your husband complains that he gained an extra *tweenage daughter... :-p

*twenties+teenage


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> @MissOrange , be careful not to massage in hair dye or bleach on the scalp, or even let it marinate on the scalp too long, because from experience of home-bleaching hair blonde, not only will the hair become like dry hay, but also the damaged sensitive scalp will develop long-term seborrheic dermatitis and hair loss.  Ask someone at home or a salon professional to help you "paint" the hairdye in layers or sections like they would do for a full-head of highlights, and avoid touching the scalp!
> 
> Good luck surprising your husband with your new look! :-p


Hi @missy_sana guess who went ahead with a second box of extreme blonde bleach today! Lol. Epic fail. Here are my photos.


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## MissOrange

I then blowdried my hair and dyed it with a box of brown hair colourant...I am now resting my hair until tomorrow. Lol


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Lol, @MissOrange !
> 
> Of all the cosmetic enhancements and procedures you went through over the years, it's funny that you now feel your wardrobe also needs a complete makeover!
> 
> I hear that the charity shops in Chelsea, Kensington & similar posh postcodes are retail therapy heaven for discount designer wear and haute-couture?  Is that true?
> 
> Apologies in advance if your husband complains that he gained an extra *tweenage daughter... :-p
> 
> *twenties+teenage


Hi @missy_sana my favourite charity shop for designer clothes is mind charity shop on wandsworth road. Everything is £3-4 and now I have an entire wardrobe of cashmere jumpers! Imagine 2 ply Scottish cashmere rrp £200 for £3.75! I call it an Aladdin's cave as I never know what I will find each time I pop in..burberry, prada, versace etc.


----------



## missy_sana

Oh my!  I had the canary yellow hair happen to me once too.  Never again!  Please do give your hair more time to rest before the next dye job!  Don't want to waste your hair transplant from chemical over-processing, and end up getting another transplant.  Wear a hat or trendy cap (K-pop style) to cover the yellow top.

Wow!  The preloved cashmere prices sound unbelievable!  I don't understand why charity shops don't try to charge higher for designer wear.  Even Primark is not as cheap as it used to be, but people still flock over there because if its original "bargain store" infamy.

Good thing I don't have a taste for designer clothes yet, because bargain shop addiction is bad enough!  I have so much bargain clothes that my tiny room just feels like living inside a closet.  On the plus side, I'm still able to save money for better things... plastic surgery being one of the options. :-p


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> After I heard that a Brit Asian got a bad fat graft job for £7000 (GULP) in the UK, I am now only entrusting my face to the best korean plastic surgeons. In the UK they even have lay people administering ulthera and you never know if it is actually ulthera or a machine that is similar. Also it is important to know the depth to zap so I think even for this noninvasive procedure, I would only entrust a doctor or more than that, an artistic skilled plastic surgeon. I heard there are many negative reviews on ulthera on rs so only the best surgeon for me for now.



I agree on going to the best, I don't let any one touch my face, not even doctors; only certified plastic surgeons. I do pay a lot because any procedure I undergo includes an attending anaesthesiologist whom my PS works with and he stays throughout the op. and till I awake. Btw my ultherapy was done under a short GA so the PS was spared me stopping him every few seconds from the pain.


----------



## loves

Just saw the post box bleach pics. Ooops. Hope you resolve it soon and that your scalp isn't hurt by the chemical processes.


----------



## chpwhy

@MissOrange, I am 12 days post fat graft and double eye lid surgery from MVP.  Thank you for documenting your journey here. It helped me in my decision making. It took about 8-10 days for my swelling to go down and for the bruises to fade around my eyes. I did 3 light treatment at MVP, perhaps that explains the bruises fading relatively fast. I judge that my thighs where the fats were taken  would be completely bruise free in the next few days. 
I would highly recommend Doc Seo, as i think he did a great job. Ellen was really nice and friendly,  but i cannot say the same for the translator assigned to me. The translator i originally communicated with on Kaokao was not at the clinic, nor did she respond to my queries a few days before i left for korea. I was quite disappointed. 
Thank you once again, Ms Orange.


----------



## MissOrange

chpwhy said:


> @MissOrange, I am 12 days post fat graft and double eye lid surgery from MVP.  Thank you for documenting your journey here. It helped me in my decision making. It took about 8-10 days for my swelling to go down and for the bruises to fade around my eyes. I did 3 light treatment at MVP, perhaps that explains the bruises fading relatively fast. I judge that my thighs where the fats were taken  would be completely bruise free in the next few days.
> I would highly recommend Doc Seo, as i think he did a great job. Ellen was really nice and friendly,  but i cannot say the same for the translator assigned to me. The translator i originally communicated with on Kaokao was not at the clinic, nor did she respond to my queries a few days before i left for korea. I was quite disappointed.
> Thank you once again, Ms Orange.


Hi @chpwhy, Glad you got Dr Seo and a great result. Elizabeth was on holiday. Turns out Victoria is answering on kakao caremvp. I was wondering why Elizabeth had been silent on kakao mvpps when others asked me to kakao her for them. If you still have queries try Victoria.

I would love to see your b&a transformation! PM me if you like. x


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## missy_sana

I agree that Elizabeth is very bubbly and usually responds very quickly.  Good for her switching off contact, because she deserves a holiday!  I've seen Elizabeth work very hard from 8am until after 10pm, running around and multi-tasking in different roles in MVP, and even walking me back to my hotel 10 minutes away, post-surgery!

Victoria is a new consultant and still learning when I met her during her 2nd week of joining MVP in February.  Victoria seems very timid and fragile! So she probably feels too shy and inexperienced to reply to your queries on Kakao. 

Best thing is to ask the manager Ellen anything.  Although i didn't consult with Ellen personally (I was assigned to Elizabeth), Ellen has checked in on me periodically and is very caring, chatty and friendly, but she doesn't get enough good credit on the reviews online.  Unlike the pushy staff in other clinics, Ellen actually reassured me and said that I look good anyway and don't need to do [xxxxx] surgery!

If Ellen is busy, then ask for Iroda the Russian/English consultant who is also very nice and very helpful too!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is a 2 month update on prp fat graft and ulthera. A hack to get glass skin is to apply soltan sunscreen on top of your makeup. I blot it on my face instead of powder. It makes my skin glow like the korean translators I saw in clinics. Here is a selfie without a fringe. The shadow under my eyes is my attempt at makeup to create an aegyo sal. I am not wearing false lashes in this selfie. The lid prp fat graft is still nice and full. I turn 52 next month!


----------



## missy_sana

We got sunscreen lotions that are as high as 130 SPF over here, so you can imagine I look like a super greasy geisha when i apply it... if you count that as "glass skin".  Lol.

And speaking of Soltan, do you know there's a Boots store on the main shopping street of Myeongdong?  A lot of the usual Boots products and related beauty brands are there if anyone ever runs out of their favourite UK essentials.


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> We got sunscreen lotions that are as high as 130 SPF over here, so you can imagine I look like a super greasy geisha when i apply it... if you count that as "glass skin".  Lol.
> 
> And speaking of Soltan, do you know there's a Boots store on the main shopping street of Myeongdong?  A lot of the usual Boots products and related beauty brands are there if anyone ever runs out of their favourite UK essentials.


130 SPF! Wow! I thought 50 was the max. That will block out everything! lol. Boots in Korea! No way! lol.

Today I had a scone with clotted cream and jam and cappucino and then zanchi gooksu noodles and my face bloated out! I am lactose intolerant and usually it is my tummy that expands not my face too! I wonder if the noodles had msg or did my tummy fat in my face respond to lactose intolerance? But the enzyme is usually released in the gut not into fat cells? So probably the noodles had msg. I looked at my face at specsavers and thought I need to book zygoma reduction at regen stat! My cheekbones looked soooo wide! Did they have trick mirrors? None of the glasses would fit and that included the ones in the men's section. I kept thinking does that mean Brits have smaller cheekbones than I do? Do I have BDD and seeing a huge wide face? But that wouldn't explain the glasses being too small and I even had a shop assistant pulling glasses for me to try on. I took a lactase supplement when I got home and my face has shrunk down again. I am just too scared of metalwork in my face after doing orthopaedics and seeing infected hip replacements etc. else I would be on a plane back to Korea for zygoma reduction, the last thing I need to achieve a small face. See how I trimmed my selfie so you don't see the end of my cheekbone. I would love to reduce my cheekbones by 1 cm on each side. Sigh.


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## MissOrange

Today's second post is on comparisons. I found this high resolution screenshot of my tv interview back in February 2017 and wow, you can see the fresh bullhorn lip lift scar. It had been done a month prior. Also shows my face after 2 full face fat grafts at DAPRS...a very rounded fat graft shape with loss of fat graft from the lids and lower face and too much in the cheeks with sagging from the weight of the fat. Compare this to the photo on the right of me this year after prp full face fat graft and ulthera with Dr Seo at MVP. Yep I can see a big difference. The bullhorn liplift scar is now 16 months old and almost invisible. The kenalog x 1 postop treatment really helped to flatten the scar and the ulthera has lifted my lower face! The placement of the fat graft is better.


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## MissOrange

Still looking 20s today! The fat graft must expand the skin as I have not had any botox since last year and am still wrinkle free. The Barbie upturned nose also makes me look young. Thank goodness I did not touch it at gng. When you are in korea, go to lotte department store and get a decent pair of trendy korean sunglasses with nose pads so it adds depth to your face.

The latest face and age recognition is haystack AI which claims to be the most accurate in age accuracy. I have cracked it!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on losing weight, the cheapest way to achieve facial contouring without bone cutting. Here is a selfie in March 2016 after chin reduction and rib rhino in the UK (on the right) before I found Korea. As you can see spending £10k did not make me look prettier. I needed fat graft strategically placed and to lose half a stone in weight. I would suggest lose the weight first and then get fat graft at mvp with dr seo or fresh with dr hong. However in March 2018 my face looks smaller (on the left) as though I had zygoma reduction and angular jaw reduction (nope); the difference is weight loss! I was probably 102 lbs in 2016 and 96 lbs in March 2018. Think of girls who get facial bone contouring and they end up only trimming 0.5 cm to 1 cm from their bone but going on a liquid diet for at least a month, leads to losing half a stone or more. I just have to avoid salty food or the fat graft in my face swells like a balloon! Now that I know I can have a small face at a weight of 96 lbs, I shall try to stay 99 lbs or under. HARD WORK!!! GRRR. But no metal in my face to worry about.

I have attached a makeover I found on the net of a similar aged korean to me as I was curious to see ladies in my age group getting ps makeovers and how they end up looking. Nice, but I am not ready to chop off all my hair.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is a comparison of my smile in 2016 (on the right) days before I turned 50 (before bullhorn liplift in 2017) and my smile in 2018 (a year after bullhorn LL) on the left. I think it truly is the best ps investment of £2450, only one hour under local anaesthetic with immediate visible results and a bonus is the bigger upper lip so I never need restylane fillers ever again. If you are on a budget, forget a facelift, measure your philtrum! Thin lips and a long philtrum are aging.


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## pinkmau

MissOrange said:


> Still looking 20s today! The fat graft must expand the skin as I have not had any botox since last year and am still wrinkle free. The Barbie upturned nose also makes me look young. Thank goodness I did not touch it at gng. When you are in korea, go to lotte department store and get a decent pair of trendy korean sunglasses with nose pads so it adds depth to your face.
> 
> The latest face and age recognition is haystack AI which claims to be the most accurate in age accuracy. I have cracked it!


where did u do ur nose ? love it !


----------



## MissOrange

pinkmau said:


> where did u do ur nose ? love it !


Hi @pinkmau,
I listed all my surgeons in my name signature. It's a long story and my nose took 2 years to look like this after rib rhino with Lucian Ion in the UK and weight loss to make the small nose more in harmony and balance with my face.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on deciding whether you need revision rhino. Do not trust a plastic surgeon to say yes you need it. Remember how Dr Seong at GNG said I needed revision rhino and Hazel said for 18 million won unless I did videos, photos and reviews. Have a look at my nose today. Insane that GNG wanted to touch a perfect nose! Ask your friends and family whether you need revision rhino as they will give you an honest answer as they have no agenda. Thank goodness I came to my senses during the meeting with the gng consultant and translator. Still annoyed Dr Seong put up a photo with my head tilted back to say I needed rhino for nostril show. Grrr. Felt like I was being conned big time and with gng shills on pf, in my opinion, this is unethical hospital practice.

On a positive note, love my eyelid fat graft. It is now permanent!!!


----------



## Gats

It seems so unethical for them to have told you that you need revision, it's like they were car mechanics deceiving you into paying for a service your car didn't need. I can't imagine they turn anyone away from getting rhino after seeing this. I hope everyone learns a valuable lesson from this, don't always trust the opinion of a plastic surgeon or consultant on whether you need work done, they may only have their own financial interests in mind.


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

Gats said:


> It seems so unethical for them to have told you that you need revision, it's like they were car mechanics deceiving you into paying for a service your car didn't need. I can't imagine they turn anyone away from getting rhino after seeing this. I hope everyone learns a valuable lesson from this, don't always trust the opinion of a plastic surgeon or consultant on whether you need work done, they may only have their own financial interests in mind.


True !!!


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on deciding whether you need revision rhino. Do not trust a plastic surgeon to say yes you need it. Remember how Dr Seong at GNG said I needed revision rhino and Hazel said for 18 million won unless I did videos, photos and reviews. Have a look at my nose today. Insane that GNG wanted to touch a perfect nose! Ask your friends and family whether you need revision rhino as they will give you an honest answer as they have no agenda. Thank goodness I came to my senses during the meeting with the gng consultant and translator. Still annoyed Dr Seong put up a photo with my head tilted back to say I needed rhino for nostril show. Grrr. Felt like I was being conned big time and with gng shills on pf, in my opinion, this is unethical hospital practice.
> 
> On a positive note, love my eyelid fat graft. It is now permanent!!!


Hi @MissOrange, you are right in saying that one's family members will give them honest answers but since they are your family members so they can be biased as well. I mean if you have a flaw(which is bothering you) and ask for their honest opinion they'll say things like "You're just fine and don't obsess over your face so much" or "Your flaw is minor and every person on this earth no matter how beautiful has flaws in their faces too". That's where forums like these comes to rescue but only when you get replies. Btw, you look amazing and your nose is enviable


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpeaks said:


> Hi @MissOrange, you are right in saying that one's family members will give them honest answers but since they are your family members so they can be biased as well. I mean if you have a flaw(which is bothering you) and ask for their honest opinion they'll say things like "You're just fine and don't obsess over your face so much" or "Your flaw is minor and every person on this earth no matter how beautiful has flaws in their faces too". That's where forums like these comes to rescue but only when you get replies. Btw, you look amazing and your nose is enviable


That is so true about family @ElijahSpeaks! I don't think my husband has ever said I need anything. Lol. So yes this forum helps, like asking 10 impartial strangers as long as you are not unwittingly asking a clinic shill. I have 3 good friends I have met from the forum and we kakao regularly to help each other with opinions as to whether we need something else fixing or not. One friend is so grateful I stopped her from getting revision rhino at gng. We both feel we came so close to messing up our noses had we paid up. She even met Mia in korea. It was so sad for Mia who wanted to cancel just days before her gng rib rhino but she would have lost her 13 million either way. Remember guys and gals if you come across negative reviews with photos on soyoung and from regular people who have been botched or have had a bad result, look at the before and after photos and regard this as a major red flag to avoid. I can't believe it when some will even have surgery at a hospital where a patient has died. Now that would automatically qualify for a blacklist in my books.


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> That is so true about family @ElijahSpeaks! I don't think my husband has ever said I need anything. Lol. So yes this forum helps, like asking 10 impartial strangers as long as you are not unwittingly asking a clinic shill. I have 3 good friends I have met from the forum and we kakao regularly to help each other with opinions as to whether we need something else fixing or not. One friend is so grateful I stopped her from getting revision rhino at gng. We both feel we came so close to messing up our noses had we paid up. She even met Mia in korea. It was so sad for Mia who wanted to cancel just days before her gng rib rhino but she would have lost her 13 million either way. Remember guys and gals if you come across negative reviews with photos on soyoung and from regular people who have been botched or have had a bad result, look at the before and after photos and regard this as a major red flag to avoid. I can't believe it when some will even have surgery at a hospital where a patient has died. Now that would automatically qualify for a blacklist in my books.


I'd never go to GNG for rhino. But, yes, i do like Dr. Choi's(facial contouring) work on his patients, he's a nice person too. Can you give me a group kakao id where you are also one of the active members? 

I'd like to have your suggestions and feedbacks ^^


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> That is so true about family @ElijahSpeaks! I don't think my husband has ever said I need anything. Lol. So yes this forum helps, like asking 10 impartial strangers as long as you are not unwittingly asking a clinic shill. I have 3 good friends I have met from the forum and we kakao regularly to help each other with opinions as to whether we need something else fixing or not. One friend is so grateful I stopped her from getting revision rhino at gng. We both feel we came so close to messing up our noses had we paid up. She even met Mia in korea. It was so sad for Mia who wanted to cancel just days before her gng rib rhino but she would have lost her 13 million either way. Remember guys and gals if you come across negative reviews with photos on soyoung and from regular people who have been botched or have had a bad result, look at the before and after photos and regard this as a major red flag to avoid. I can't believe it when some will even have surgery at a hospital where a patient has died. Now that would automatically qualify for a blacklist in my books.


As far as shills are concerned then i think that this forum has become more of a portal for hoodwink rather than providing genuine help regarding ps in Seoul.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is how extreme weight loss not only contours your face but also reshapes your nose! I couldn't figure out why my nose looked perfect after extreme weight loss, or in my case from 102-104 down to 95-97 until I found these photos. We know that you are basically on a liquid diet for 2-4 weeks after bone contouring but imagine, your nose also gets reshaped! This means, do not get rhino until you have lost weight as you may be hiding the ideal nose! And you may not even need v line bone surgery either! This explains why some get facial liposuction with fat graft for a v line look without bone cutting. And this also explains why in my old photos my face looks chubby, round with a short rib rhino nose and in recent photos my face appears smaller, contoured with a perfect nose without touching the nose again.

Another message is on aging. See the photo showing how much fat is lost as we age! And how the bones change and recede! Another reason to hold off on v line if you are 40+ as Mother Nature will do it for you naturally and for free. You can see the sub brow fat in the pictures of fat loss and why after a whopping 5 fat grafts to my upper lids, ie sub brow area, it is now as plump as a young face! I have had 4 fat grafts to my lower face so I may need one more top up to make it as permanent as my lids which now do not need any more top ups ever! Well not for another 20 years! The key is to keep getting fat transfer until it reaches a young face and stays, so expect to keep flying back annually or twice a year until you have filled up your face for good. Do not expect your first face fat transfer to be your last. You need multiple top ups to refill all the fat that is lost over decades as we age.

Where the maxilla recedes, I had tried a premaxilla gortex implant for 6 years to re-expand my philtrum which had sunken in but due to infection, it was removed 5 years ago. No wonder I needed philtrum reduction with bullhorn lip lift as the space where the implant had been still remained and the philtrum sagged. I now rely on 1.5 ccs of radiesse or half on each side of my paranasal space to fill up the hollow in my nasolabial folds. It is very useful to actually see the facial bones and why we need to refill our face with fat or fillers and where!


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## brandnew

I totally agree to ElijahSpeaks, I really need genuine help for the surgery...coz I'm getting confused while reading the threads here, so many clinics...
I search for the clinics through google...in gangnam area.. wonjin, regen, view and Cinderella (doesn't look really big, but seems popular among celebrities... so interested in....)
Anybody has ideas and experiences about those??? real experience please~
Thanks


----------



## MissOrange

brandnew said:


> I totally agree to ElijahSpeaks, I really need genuine help for the surgery...coz I'm getting confused while reading the threads here, so many clinics...
> I search for the clinics through google...in gangnam area.. wonjin, regen, view and Cinderella (doesn't look really big, but seems popular among celebrities... so interested in....)
> Anybody has ideas and experiences about those??? real experience please~
> Thanks


Hi @brandnew, I have spent years doing research and have flown to Korea 5 times in the past 2 years for plastic surgery. It's now simple. For incision des with ptosis for eyes and silicone nose, Dr Seo from MVP clinic wins as I have now seen so many of his patient results and he beautified my eyes too which is a tall order as I am in my 50s so not only beautified but also made my eyes super young. His noses get an A* from me and with my ears, nose and throat surgical background I don't give compliments lightly but from a professional perspective. Second place for silicone noses is Dr Hong at GNG but GNG is very expensive and has unethical practices like numerous shills on PF, exorbitant pricing, very hardselling, tires you out by keeping you waiting for hours for your appointment, moves around your surgery time from noon to 5 pm (happened to a friend), refusing to reoperate when patients are unhappy with their miniscule bone shavings for v line, patients having to be restitched after nose rhino wound dehiscence with Dr Seong, patient had to go from the airport back to GNG for excessive postop bleeding and clots after rhino with Dr Son (who has now left) to be reoperated on, etc. For zygoma reduction, Dr Oh Myung June wins for Regen in my professional opinion. He has achieved his own technique which prevents sagging, voluntarily showed many amazing before and after results on his computer, is reasonable with pricing after you negotiate with a very kind and caring consultant who is not hardselling but very human. For v line there are several choices from Regen to EU dental to DAPRS. For fat grafting the 2 winners are Dr Seo of MVP who did mine and Dr Hong of Fresh who did my friend. However for eyelid fat graft, Dr Seo beats Dr Hong. My eyelids are amazing and the fat graft is smooth and perfect! Happy bunny me. Young eyes forever!!!


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpeaks said:


> As far as shills are concerned then i think that this forum has become more of a portal for hoodwink rather than providing genuine help regarding ps in Seoul.


Hi @ElijahSpeaks yes it can be a minefield if you fall for a shill or a fake review and then fall victim and end up with a nose you hate, or a v line that is hardly noticeable, or a fat graft with lumps. That is why it takes endless months of research to find genuine real patients who do exist and have been on pf for many years. You can use pf to find the latest kakao groups but be mindful that even shills join kakao groups to sway members. I remember in the May 2016 kakao group no one heard of or spoke of GNG. It was all mvp vs teium. Then in December 2016 suddenly pf was inundated with talk on gng and that was the start of shills on pf. Use of shills is an unethical marketing tool to drive traffic to a particular unknown hospital or restaurant. Here is a youtube of how it works .

The video shows how Shed, the worst restaurant in the uk went from bottom to number 1 with use of shills and sock puppets. Having met 2 unhappy GNG Dr Choi patients in Feb 2018 and another 2 on kakao Dr Seong and Dr Son patients (2018 and 2017) with b&a photos, I feel morally obliged to warn others. Make life simpler for yourself and simply avoid this hospital and choose an ethical clinic like MVP, Fresh or Regen.


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## MissOrange

ElijahSpeaks said:


> I'd never go to GNG for rhino. But, yes, i do like Dr. Choi's(facial contouring) work on his patients, he's a nice person too. Can you give me a group kakao id where you are also one of the active members?
> 
> I'd like to have your suggestions and feedbacks ^^


Hi @ElijahSpeaks I met 2 GNG patients in Korea who were unhappy with their v lines and one was refused another operation by gng to shave the side they didn't even shave! Total rip off. So no, I would advise against GNG even for bone contouring. You may end up as one of their regular patients they overcharge, move around the operating time to last on the list, unilaterally decide how little to remove or only remove from one side even though you paid for full v line, ie v line implies you cut from both sides! If you are an instagrammer or youtube star with 100,000+ followers then they treat you better but if you are an unknown regular patient, then you are taking a big risk. I have a strong moral conviction and hate injustices so fight for those who have been taken for a ride by any ps hospital! And boy did they make the worst impression on me when they tried to scam me saying I needed an 18 million won rib rhino revision! Had I ended up with the nose they gave Mia, I would have been suicidal!


----------



## MissOrange

Still looking good into my 3rd month post prp fat transfer and ulthera. For those on a ps budget I found that you can model for training courses for discount botox or filler prices! I have booked to be a derma model next month for £100 for my crows feet which appear when I smile with teeth. I think £200 a year is affordable. Google derma model to research. My weight is 97.8 lbs in the selfies taken yesterday. To look 20s means to maintain the weight of a girl in her 20s and not a mature lady in her 50s! Weight can give the game away no matter how much ps you have to rejuvenate.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on time travel. Once you are in your 50s and have rejuvenated successfully, look up your old photos and see how prp fat transfer has given you back your young face but an even better face than you have ever had!

I found this old photo from when I was 30 as this year I am attending my middle daughter's university graduation which means this photo is 22 years old. I look pretty much the same now but prettier!

To all you mothers out there, once your children have made it to and through university, time for you to rejuvenate and reverse time! Bullhorn liplift (for £2450), eyelid fat graft and full face fat transfer (for 2 million won or $2000 with top up) are even better than a traditional smas facelift and costs a lot less!


----------



## MissOrange

For those who can't read 56 pages of my thread, here is a photo collage summary of my ps journey with a before collage and an after collage. If you can relate with any of the before photos with my long philtrum, bony face, thin lips, receding maxilla, etc., please do get prp fat transfer with Dr Seo at MVP or Dr Hong at Fresh and bullhorn lip lift with Dr Mills in London asap to be young and rejuvenated again! The advice I give on this forum is to help others avoid botches, pitfalls or expensive cons. There is an easier way to get safe, best, economical plastic surgery and I hope my thread continues to help you. I have endured a lot of GNG shill attacks on me for trying to warn others against their fat transfer (left an eyelid lump in a friend), V line (took a bit out of one side and not the other on another friend) and rhino (made her nose as big as the width of her mouth). As a doctor registered with the New York State medical board, I am giving you my professional opinion of which clinics are good and which are bad.


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## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> Hi @ElijahSpeaks yes it can be a minefield if you fall for a shill or a fake review and then fall victim and end up with a nose you hate, or a v line that is hardly noticeable, or a fat graft with lumps. That is why it takes endless months of research to find genuine real patients who do exist and have been on pf for many years. You can use pf to find the latest kakao groups but be mindful that even shills join kakao groups to sway members. I remember in the May 2016 kakao group no one heard of or spoke of GNG. It was all mvp vs teium. Then in December 2016 suddenly pf was inundated with talk on gng and that was the start of shills on pf. Use of shills is an unethical marketing tool to drive traffic to a particular unknown hospital or restaurant. Here is a youtube of how it works .
> 
> The video shows how Shed, the worst restaurant in the uk went from bottom to number 1 with use of shills and sock puppets. Having met 2 unhappy GNG Dr Choi patients in Feb 2018 and another 2 on kakao Dr Seong and Dr Son patients (2018 and 2017) with b&a photos, I feel morally obliged to warn others. Make life simpler for yourself and simply avoid this hospital and choose an ethical clinic like MVP, Fresh or Regen.


Thank you @MissOrange for your suggestions. I have few doubts regarding fresh and regen. First of, fresh doesn't even have docs that are board certified but still performing surgery somehow(it's very scary). I do have heard good things about Fresh(from other genuine sources) but i personally wouldn't like to take any chance with them, i'd instead go with MVP.

Now, as far as Regen is concerned then you must be knowing that Dr. Oh Myung June is suspended from his qualification as a Board Certified plastic surgeon(prskorea website has striked him off its list). And there must be a solid reason of him getting suspended from the list of board certified plastic surgeons mentioned on prskorea's website, but, still you recommending him seems a bit odd to me?


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> I have a strong moral conviction and hate injustices so fight for those who have been taken for a ride ...



This resonated with me so much. I guess we have something strong in common ^^


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> Hi @ElijahSpeaks I met 2 GNG patients in Korea who were unhappy with their v lines and one was refused another operation by gng to shave the side they didn't even shave! Total rip off. So no, I would advise against GNG even for bone contouring. You may end up as one of their regular patients they overcharge, move around the operating time to last on the list, unilaterally decide how little to remove or only remove from one side even though you paid for full v line, ie v line implies you cut from both sides! If you are an instagrammer or youtube star with 100,000+ followers then they treat you better but if you are an unknown regular patient, then you are taking a big risk. I have a strong moral conviction and hate injustices so fight for those who have been taken for a ride by any ps hospital! And boy did they make the worst impression on me when they tried to scam me saying I needed an 18 million won rib rhino revision! Had I ended up with the nose they gave Mia, I would have been suicidal!


Thanks alot for informing me about this. GNG is forever off my list.

Oflately, there is an influx of praises about PS101. I wonder if this is also some kind of shill at work. Does Dr. Paik specialize in western noses as well?


----------



## Ririna

ElijahSpeaks said:


> Thank you @MissOrange for your suggestions. I have few doubts regarding fresh and regen. First of, fresh doesn't even have docs that are board certified but still performing surgery somehow(it's very scary). I do have heard good things about Fresh(from other genuine sources) but i personally wouldn't like to take any chance with them, i'd instead go with MVP.
> 
> Now, as far as Regen is concerned then you must be knowing that Dr. Oh Myung June is suspended from his qualification as a Board Certified plastic surgeon(prskorea website has striked him off its list). And there must be a solid reason of him getting suspended from the list of board certified plastic surgeons mentioned on prskorea's website, but, still you recommending him seems a bit odd to me?


Hey Elijah! I don't know about Fresh, but the reason for Dr. Oh's suspension has been explained here: 
https://forum.purseblog.com/index.php?threads/985782/


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

Ririna said:


> Hey Elijah! I don't know about Fresh, but the reason for Dr. Oh's suspension has been explained here:
> https://forum.purseblog.com/index.php?threads/985782/


Thanks Ririna, i read that whole post and related posts too. But there are other reputed clinics as well such as View, TLPS, ID, JW among others that have participated in Let Me In show but their docs(who were board certified) have not been suspended from their qualification then why specially Dr. Oh only got suspended???

Also, i don't think so that prskorea has ever stated that it'll disqualify a member doctor from their qualification if they or their clinic participate in tv shows.(though i'm not sure so i'll personally ask prskorea). And Dr. Oh interviewed with big international news channels back in 2014-15 when he was very well a member of prskorea(correct me if i'm wrong)


----------



## tobiekorie

You do look younger but also think it is because your style now is younger than the old pics


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpeaks said:


> Thanks alot for informing me about this. GNG is forever off my list.
> 
> Oflately, there is an influx of praises about PS101. I wonder if this is also some kind of shill at work. Does Dr. Paik specialize in western noses as well?


Hi @ElijahSpeaks yes I noticed that too. This means doing your own research, ie finding real patients to see if they are happy or unhappy and not Instagram or youtube stars who got their surgeries for free but regular patients. I like RS as there are more b&a photos so less likely to be shills. In fact it was because I found 2 past patients of Miss Mills on RS that I was able to see their many b&a photos and message them to be able to be 100% confident I would get similar results and did. Their advice not to cut into the sill was a lifesaver as I saw photos of distorted nostrils that had been pulled down from liplift by other ps!


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpeaks said:


> Thanks Ririna, i read that whole post and related posts too. But there are other reputed clinics as well such as View, TLPS, ID, JW among others that have participated in Let Me In show but their docs(who were board certified) have not been suspended from their qualification then why specially Dr. Oh only got suspended???
> 
> Also, i don't think so that prskorea has ever stated that it'll disqualify a member doctor from their qualification if they or their clinic participate in tv shows.(though i'm not sure so i'll personally ask prskorea). And Dr. Oh interviewed with big international news channels back in 2014-15 when he was very well a member of prskorea(correct me if i'm wrong)


You make a good point @ElijahSpeaks. Do you have a legal background? I would say once in Korea choose the clinics you would like to consult and it will be an eye opener as to which leave you with a good feeling (ESP) and which leave you with a voice that says run away fast, get out of this place. It is funny how women's intuition can be very accurate. I must say when one of Regen's consultants said my x rays on kakao would cost 15000 won and then when I handed over 20000, she then said no, 50,000 won, I was angry. I asked to see their price list but it was all in korean and no where was there a 50,000 won price. The highest price was 20,000. It did leave me with a bitter feeling and so I paid the 50,000 begrudgingly. I guess x rays in the UK would cost a lot more. Dr Oh himself was polite and informative and eager to share his b&as. The next consultant who discussed price was nice and not pushy and I managed to negotiate from 10 million won to 7 million won if I paid cash for zygoma reduction. Looking elsewhere the prices for zygoma reduction are less but that is a fair price for the lead surgeon Dr Oh. I shall see what my face is like at 60 as the facial bones shrink over time so I may not need zygoma reduction. I just can't have metal in my face knowing how I respond to a foreign body...infected nose with permanent sutures, infected premaxilla gortex implant, infected upper teeth crowns needing 2 root canals, etc.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on why we get plastic surgery. I think the number one reason has got to be to make oneself beautiful to get a bf or husband. There are over 1.3 million single korean women in their 30s and 40s in Korea, double what it was a decade ago! They are competing with young girls in their 20s who are naturally beautiful, had ps or are born tall. I was so angry when a korean man in his early 40s said he dumped his lovely ex I met in her 30s as he was looking for a wife in her early 20s who looked like a k drama star. This ex was 36 and had devoted 3 years of her life to him. Her chances of finding a husband at age 36 is now harder than at age 33. At my old age I know that if I had not wed in my 20s,  I would have trouble supporting myself financially into my senior years as in the UK, children do not look after their parents and I hear in Korea old traditions are being shunted and there is no state pension.

I think plastic surgery can be vital to compete in a market for finding work but more importantly for finding a husband..even 2 incomes are better than one. But even after plastic surgery, one has to change one's ways to find a husband. Too often a job or career is put first. I say pursue your career after you have wed and had your babies. Between 20 and 24 find a husband, get wed by 26-27 and have all your babies by 30. I had my own tv series when I was 40! It is amazing what jobs you can do after you have had your children.

Here is a snap from yesterday's masters graduation ceremony.  I saw my tall daughter and thought she refuses ps as she does not need it with her height. Her height and youth put her at an advantage for now. I would be as short as her friends. Lol. Imagine a man looking for a wife would automatically discount shorter women if a tall lady came into the room. Sigh. I heard that rich Chinese men have a minimum height requirement for their wives! Tbh I had a minimum height requirement for my husband of 5'11" even though I am only 5'1". lol. I wanted a tall daughter as I was fed up of being the shortest in my American school! lol.

But I managed to find my tall husband at age 24 so it can be done without height and plastic surgery, ie power of makeup, stilettos, personality, confidence and youth.

Ladies in their 20s double your efforts to find a husband as it gets harder in your 30s and 40s, as you become more picky, used to your own independence and set in your ways. If you don't need a husband, you won't get married so you must make yourself need a husband. I can't cook so I needed a husband who could cook for me or I faced a life of instant ramen noodles.

Whether you use makeup or ps, focus on the goal of finding a husband to start a family. I meet so many professional women in their 30s with a heart of gold but no husband. The good news is we Asians look younger than our years so it buys more time to find Mr Right who is often more a best friend than a K drama star.


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> Hi @ElijahSpeaks yes I noticed that too. This means doing your own research, ie finding real patients to see if they are happy or unhappy and not Instagram or youtube stars who got their surgeries for free but regular patients. I like RS as there are more b&a photos so less likely to be shills. In fact it was because I found 2 past patients of Miss Mills on RS that I was able to see their many b&a photos and message them to be able to be 100% confident I would get similar results and did. Their advice not to cut into the sill was a lifesaver as I saw photos of distorted nostrils that had been pulled down from liplift by other ps!


RS???


----------



## Ririna

ElijahSpeaks said:


> Thanks Ririna, i read that whole post and related posts too. But there are other reputed clinics as well such as View, TLPS, ID, JW among others that have participated in Let Me In show but their docs(who were board certified) have not been suspended from their qualification then why specially Dr. Oh only got suspended???
> 
> Also, i don't think so that prskorea has ever stated that it'll disqualify a member doctor from their qualification if they or their clinic participate in tv shows.(though i'm not sure so i'll personally ask prskorea). And Dr. Oh interviewed with big international news channels back in 2014-15 when he was very well a member of prskorea(correct me if i'm wrong)


You make a good point... 
If you talk to prskorea, will you please let us know what they say about this?


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> You make a good point @ElijahSpeaks. Do you have a legal background? I would say once in Korea choose the clinics you would like to consult and it will be an eye opener as to which leave you with a good feeling (ESP) and which leave you with a voice that says run away fast, get out of this place. It is funny how women's intuition can be very accurate. I must say when one of Regen's consultants said my x rays on kakao would cost 15000 won and then when I handed over 20000, she then said no, 50,000 won, I was angry. I asked to see their price list but it was all in korean and no where was there a 50,000 won price. The highest price was 20,000. It did leave me with a bitter feeling and so I paid the 50,000 begrudgingly. I guess x rays in the UK would cost a lot more. Dr Oh himself was polite and informative and eager to share his b&as. The next consultant who discussed price was nice and not pushy and I managed to negotiate from 10 million won to 7 million won if I paid cash for zygoma reduction. Looking elsewhere the prices for zygoma reduction are less but that is a fair price for the lead surgeon Dr Oh. I shall see what my face is like at 60 as the facial bones shrink over time so I may not need zygoma reduction. I just can't have metal in my face knowing how I respond to a foreign body...infected nose with permanent sutures, infected premaxilla gortex implant, infected upper teeth crowns needing 2 root canals, etc.


Haha no @MissOrange i don't have a legal background as such, it's something that comes to me naturally. I too (just like you) have a strong sense of justice and moral conviction.

And, i'm sorry to hear that you had a mixed experience with Regen. I was really considering Dr. Oh until i found out about his suspension from prskorea.

It's really frustrating to look out for docs(in korea) that can provide you safe & beautiful results. 

I have already emailed prskorea and waiting for their reply regarding suspension of Dr. Oh


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

Ririna said:


> You make a good point...
> If you talk to prskorea, will you please let us know what they say about this?


Have already emailed them ^^


----------



## Ririna

ElijahSpeaks said:


> RS???


RealSelf


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on why we get plastic surgery. I think the number one reason has got to be to make oneself beautiful to get a bf or husband. There are over 1.3 million single korean women in their 30s and 40s in Korea, double what it was a decade ago! They are competing with young girls in their 20s who are naturally beautiful, had ps or are born tall. I was so angry when a korean man in his early 40s said he dumped his lovely ex I met in her 30s as he was looking for a wife in her early 20s who looked like a k drama star. This ex was 36 and had devoted 3 years of her life to him. Her chances of finding a husband at age 36 is now harder than at age 33. At my old age I know that if I had not wed in my 20s,  I would have trouble supporting myself financially into my senior years as in the UK, children do not look after their parents and I hear in Korea old traditions are being shunted and there is no state pension.
> 
> I think plastic surgery can be vital to compete in a market for finding work but more importantly for finding a husband..even 2 incomes are better than one. But even after plastic surgery, one has to change one's ways to find a husband. Too often a job or career is put first. I say pursue your career after you have wed and had your babies. Between 20 and 24 find a husband, get wed by 26-27 and have all your babies by 30. I had my own tv series when I was 40! It is amazing what jobs you can do after you have had your children.
> 
> Here is a snap from yesterday's masters graduation ceremony.  I saw my tall daughter and thought she refuses ps as she does not need it with her height. Her height and youth put her at an advantage for now. I would be as short as her friends. Lol. Imagine a man looking for a wife would automatically discount shorter women if a tall lady came into the room. Sigh. I heard that rich Chinese men have a minimum height requirement for their wives! Tbh I had a minimum height requirement for my husband of 5'11" even though I am only 5'1". lol. I wanted a tall daughter as I was fed up of being the shortest in my American school! lol.
> 
> But I managed to find my tall husband at age 24 so it can be done without height and plastic surgery, ie power of makeup, stilettos, personality, confidence and youth.
> 
> Ladies in their 20s double your efforts to find a husband as it gets harder in your 30s and 40s, as you become more picky, used to your own independence and set in your ways. If you don't need a husband, you won't get married so you must make yourself need a husband. I can't cook so I needed a husband who could cook for me or I faced a life of instant ramen noodles.
> 
> Whether you use makeup or ps, focus on the goal of finding a husband to start a family. I meet so many professional women in their 30s with a heart of gold but no husband. The good news is we Asians look younger than our years so it buys more time to find Mr Right who is often more a best friend than a K drama star.




You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth!

I agree that the older and more independent I get, the more picky I get with potential partners as I do with choosing plastic surgeons!  

Aaaaargh!  To live constantly under the knife or as a spinster?

I imagine a trophy wife would still have to work hard to keep her crown and her husband, because It's like a constant beauty pageant competing against teenagers and 20s women when aged 30+, whether married or single.  Can't become too complacent even with a ring on that finger.

Failing that, I'll choose career first, earn my own millions, adopt kids from a 3rd world country and have a string of toyboys to service my needs without marrying.  Seems to work out nicely for the ever-youthful power female celebrities.


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpeaks said:


> RS???


Real self


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

MissOrange said:


> Real self


Got it


----------



## ElijahSpeaks

Got reply from prskorea and though their reply wasn't in proper English but still proper enough to understand the meaning. They said that they suspend doctors who infringes their rules. And they are unwilling to offer any specific reason behind them suspending doctors, as they have mentioned that it is kinda personal information.

The good news is that they said that they did not disqualify Dr. Oh because of any medical malpractice or anything like that so i should not be worried about that.

So, now, beauties you can rest assured that Dr. Oh is safe to have surgery with.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

ElijahSpeaks said:


> Got reply from prskorea and though their reply wasn't in proper English but still proper enough to understand the meaning. They said that they suspend doctors who infringes their rules. And they are unwilling to offer any specific reason behind them suspending doctors, as they have mentioned that it is kinda personal information.
> 
> The good news is that they said that they did not disqualify Dr. Oh because of any medical malpractice or anything like that so i should not be worried about that.
> 
> So, now, beauties you can rest assured that Dr. Oh is safe to have surgery with.


That was ALREADY mentioned by MiissO LAST MONTH that it “was not due to negligence” when her friend made enquries. Keep up man! Or better yet READ EVERY page before you jump in with your words of wisdom!!!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on the importance of addressing the upper eyelid/ subbrow area. I found photos of who I consider are the most beautiful women in the world...Farrah Fawcett, Jane Seymour, Marilyn Monroe, Jun Ji Hyun etc. and they all have one thing in common, full to the point of overfilled sub brow or upper eyelids, which is why I have persisted and now had 5 fat grafts to my upper eyelids to completely fill up what was once hollow aging wrinkled lids. Interestingly they all have small eyelid creases but very full sub brow areas! Just the look I aimed for too without knowing. Plastic surgeons in the UK and US are loathe to inject in this area and fillers in this area are too dangerous. This leaves Korea. I have seen a photo of a girl who had fat graft in her lids at GNG and was left with an eyelid lump that makes one of her eyes droopier than the other so I cannot recommend GNG even for fat graft. She brought this to their attention but they dismissed her concerns. The best for eyelid fat graft is Dr Seo at MVP as he is the cheapest and safest and a must for anyone over 40 with hollow aging eyelids.


----------



## tobiekorie

hey I saw your review on MVP PS's Instagram, did you get discount as you wrote review on here? Cause I saw lots of patients from GNG wrote good reviews cause GNG offered discount for that..
Honestly I don't think that's bad though. Just wondering.


----------



## MissOrange

tobiekorie said:


> hey I saw your review on MVP PS's Instagram, did you get discount as you wrote review on here? Cause I saw lots of patients from GNG wrote good reviews cause GNG offered discount for that..
> Honestly I don't think that's bad though. Just wondering.



I stated earlier in my thread that MVP was offering past patients $100 Hyundai gift certificate to share their post surgery photo on their social media. As I flew home before they could take postop photos without bruises and I take out my own stitches, I sent them my beautiful results. I was not prepared to fly to korea just to collect a gift certificate however but thought if I do fly back I could see if they still have the gift certificate for me to pick up which I did a year later but then I paid for my own airport transport so it was really a financial wash as I did not get their free airport pick up and drop off service this year which is usually $50 each way. lol.

I paid full price to Dr Seo at MVP for revision des, ptosis correction and eyelid fat graft...3 million won in low season May 2016. I had checked the prices docfinder quoted me for 4 clinics and felt MVP had offered the cheapest and did not want to go lower as the clinic has costs, overhead for a prime real estate location, surgeon's fee, included meds for free, free pumpkin juices, thigh bandages, eye mask, etc. I am writing because my results are amazing and there was no need to haggle or agree to do reviews for discounts. I paid full price 2.5 million for vermillion lip lift to Dr Choi at MVP in July 2016. I complained as it did not shorten my long philtrum and sent UK maxillofacial surgeon Dr Mills' consultation report 6 months postop that stated my philtrum was 20 mms and she would be happy to shorten with bullhorn lip lift. Ellen said Dr Choi would not revise for free and that only Dr Seo offers free revisions. So I paid Miss Mills the full price of £2450 or around 3.5 million won and wrote a review on rs as I was happy with her work too. I think Ellen felt bad as when I flew back for my eyelid top up which one top up is included with eyelid fat graft, she saw my Miss Mills bullhorn lip lift and realised this was what I wanted all along and not vermillion and how it made me look younger and perhaps there was miscommunication as Dr Choi speaks zero English but then he had refused to do bullhorn because it leaves a scar. She offered me a multiple procedure discount for my third procedure with MVP, full face fat graft with ulthera. I accepted as I had already wasted 2.5 million won and felt this was compensation as there are no refunds issued with plastic surgery. So no, for the first 2 times I flew to MVP and had procedures I paid full price and the third was discounted as a multiple procedure customer but also because I was unhappy with the second procedure I had wasted 2.5 million won on and paid £2450 to do properly in the UK. If you have a third procedure at MVP, I am sure they can offer you a multiple procedure discount too which is more like a loyalty discount and does not require reviews.

I was offered one free plastic surgery procedure at Regen when a korean tv show wanted to follow the journey of a Regen patient and I thought, wow, free! But the show pulled out, so no freebie for me. . It was a close call as I was obsessed with getting zygoma reduction and the thought of getting it for free was soooo tempting but the show cancelled the idea and I was only offered a cash discount 7 million won instead of 10 million won on credit card.

It seems only GNG uses discounts to get patients to write reviews on PF and their discounted price is still way off the scale, too expensive compared to even UK prices!

As a US trained doctor living in the UK, I am giving my professional and personal opinions as to what was effective and where I had it done so older women may rejuvenate too without breaking the bank! I am hoping I am done with flying back and forth to Korea, well until I am 60 and need a smas facelift and then the research begins again to find the cheapest and best plastic surgeon in the world for smas.


----------



## gazoo

@MissOrange, do you get filler in your nasolabial folds?


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> @MissOrange, do you get filler in your nasolabial folds?


Hi @gazoo, yes I have radiesse filler in my nasolabial folds twice a year for over a decade for £270/year. No prescription required for fillers! With your medical background you can inject yourself and buy from Filler World online. I took a course over a decade ago.


----------



## ElijahSpk

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> That was ALREADY mentioned by MiissO LAST MONTH that it “was not due to negligence” when her friend made enquries. Keep up man! Or better yet READ EVERY page before you jump in with your words of wisdom!!!



Ririna did send me a link belonging to one of your post where you made a statement that Dr. Oh got suspended because of him & his clinic taking part in Let Me In Show. Also, that his suspension wasn't due to any negligence as mentioned by MissOrange's friend. And my words of wisdom were counter questioning the fact that prskorea has never stated that they suspend certified docs just because they take part in Korean Makeover reality tv shows.

 And, even if giving you the benefit of the doubt, the question arises that why prskorea suspended only Dr. Oh and not other certifed docs from other big reputed clinics who have had also taken part in Let Me In Show(for example- JW, ID and Cinderella alongwith other clinics)??

Now, i cannot be a master of wisdom like you but i certainly do have an excellent amount of reasoning capability, eagerness & intellect to not just take others words for granted and post in a forum something that is ****just based on hearsay****

It is not at all my forte to be a schmuck in garb of a wisdom master


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpk said:


> Ririna did send me a link belonging to one of your post where you made a statement that Dr. Oh got suspended because of him & his clinic taking part in Let Me In Show. Also, that his suspension wasn't due to any negligence as mentioned by MissOrange's friend. And my words of wisdom were counter questioning the fact that prskorea has never stated that they suspend certified docs just because they take part in Korean Makeover reality tv shows.
> 
> And, even if giving you the benefit of the doubt, the question arises that why prskorea suspended only Dr. Oh and not other certifed docs from other big reputed clinics who have had also taken part in Let Me In Show(for example- JW, ID and Cinderella alongwith other clinics)??
> 
> Now, i cannot be a master of wisdom like you but i certainly do have an excellent amount of reasoning capability, eagerness & intellect to not just take others words for granted and post in a forum something that is ****just based on hearsay****
> 
> It is not at all my forte to be a schmuck in garb of a wisdom master


You raise a good point @ElijahSpk. Why only Dr Oh if other plastic surgeons also participated in makeover shows. You could email again to ask the licensing board this. You are either in the legal field, journalist field or a detective! Keep up with your research!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is both a 3 month update and advice on losing weight fast! I forgot I used to drink actimel probiotic and this week have had 4 days of these mini drinks and wow with zero effort I weigh 97.8 lbs after struggling to get below 99 again. Yesterday as I was shopping a friend said I looked younger every time she saw me! I think the short upturned nose in combination with the liplift and fg has made my face permanently young. Here I am trying to find a birthday treat for my 52nd birthday. I think I look younger without false eyelashes and with pink lipstick and pink clothes. The jeans are from Heidi Klum's esmara collection at lidls.


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## ElijahSpk

MissOrange said:


> You raise a good point @ElijahSpk. Why only Dr Oh if other plastic surgeons also participated in makeover shows. You could email again to ask the licensing board this. You are either in the legal field, journalist field or a detective! Keep up with your research!


Hahaha, you're too funny @MissOrange. Well, now if you have made me a detective then i should spice it up a little bit more [emoji41]


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## Luv n bags

.


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## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is both a 3 month update and advice on losing weight fast! I forgot I used to drink actimel probiotic and this week have had 4 days of these mini drinks and wow with zero effort I weigh 97.8 lbs after struggling to get below 99 again. Yesterday as I was shopping a friend said I looked younger every time she saw me! I think the short upturned nose in combination with the liplift and fg has made my face permanently young. Here I am trying to find a birthday treat for my 52nd birthday. I think I look younger without false eyelashes and with pink lipstick and pink clothes. The jeans are from Heidi Klum's esmara collection at lidls.


There's this diet pill in korea which i just get the surgeon to prescribe me and the do it without even batting an eyelid.The label on the box is in korean so i have no idea if thats the correct name but from i believe it is pronounced Koraku. Legit everytime I pop it i lost 1-1.5 kg a day. I believe its similar to the weight loss drug the aussie and american doctors prescribe but back home there's no way in hell they would prescribe that to me cos you have to be really overweight for them to write you the script. Funny how lax the koreans are right? haha. my surgeon literally is like "oh the girl's at reception all use it" and i was like....uhhh what? these skinny betches? hahaha


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> There's this diet pill in korea which i just get the surgeon to prescribe me and the do it without even batting an eyelid.The label on the box is in korean so i have no idea if thats the correct name but from i believe it is pronounced Koraku. Legit everytime I pop it i lost 1-1.5 kg a day. I believe its similar to the weight loss drug the aussie and american doctors prescribe but back home there's no way in hell they would prescribe that to me cos you have to be really overweight for them to write you the script. Funny how lax the koreans are right? haha. my surgeon literally is like "oh the girl's at reception all use it" and i was like....uhhh what? these skinny betches? hahaha


Hi @K Couture, wow you are brave to take a diet pill and not know its ingredients and how it works. Maybe it is a diuretic that makes you lose fluids as 1 kg a day is a lot! I shy away from diet pills after I attended a medical conference in Paris when they launched rimonobant. I read the research papers on the table and one of them had the truth in fine miniscule print...that some research participants ended up committing suicide and died. I was shocked when it was added to the NHS formulary but has since been withdrawn from the market after patients died. Ever since that experience of seeing Big Pharma release a drug with a lethal side effect, I try not to take any pills. In the UK they have orlistat which supposedly blocks fat absorption and sibutramine but that has been discontinued too due to increased heart disease and strokes.

At Regen, I asked the super skinny consultant how much she weighed as she was roughly my height and she said 43 kgs and needed to lose a bit! Wow like 94.6 lbs, I wish! Yes I noticed k drama and k pop stars are super skinny! For me to be that weight would mean a diet of 700 calories a day and no alcohol.

The only downside to actimel drinks is the sugar as sugar is carcinogenic in excess. I shall google the korean pill and see what I can find.


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## MOTTY26

How tall are u Ms. O if I may ask?


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture, wow you are brave to take a diet pill and not know its ingredients and how it works. Maybe it is a diuretic that makes you lose fluids as 1 kg a day is a lot! I shy away from diet pills after I attended a medical conference in Paris when they launched rimonobant. I read the research papers on the table and one of them had the truth in fine miniscule print...that some research participants ended up committing suicide and died. I was shocked when it was added to the NHS formulary but has since been withdrawn from the market after patients died. Ever since that experience of seeing Big Pharma release a drug with a lethal side effect, I try not to take any pills. In the UK they have orlistat which supposedly blocks fat absorption and sibutramine but that has been discontinued too due to increased heart disease and strokes.
> 
> At Regen, I asked the super skinny consultant how much she weighed as she was roughly my height and she said 43 kgs and needed to lose a bit! Wow like 94.6 lbs, I wish! Yes I noticed k drama and k pop stars are super skinny! For me to be that weight would mean a diet of 700 calories a day and no alcohol.
> 
> The only downside to actimel drinks is the sugar as sugar is carcinogenic in excess. I shall google the korean pill and see what I can find.


When Asian girls are skinny naturally, ie they don't diet to be that way their skin is great and they don't look gaunt however if you diet and go too way down, OMG you can look old and ugly.


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> How tall are u Ms. O if I may ask?


That should be how short are you? lol. I am only 5'1" or 156 cms.


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> When Asian girls are skinny naturally, ie they don't diet to be that way their skin is great and they don't look gaunt however if you diet and go too way down, OMG you can look old and ugly.


Tell me about it @SheOnlyLooks25! This facial fat graft is massively hard work. If I hit 99 lbs and eat fatty foods like cake or dairy my face bloats out (remember those photos of my face when bloated after msg?) and if I hit 95 lbs my face sags and is deflated so great body but old saggy face. It is immense work to try to maintain at 97-98 lbs, ie 1-2 lbs above fat graft weight. Sometimes I feel like giving up but then my face balloons so I have no choice but to recalibrate and get my weight back down 2 lbs. Maybe I should have just had a smas facelift but then ASPS refused me smas saying I did not need it! Tummy fat in the face works just like my belly fat...bloating with dairy, msg, too much water, etc.


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## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture, wow you are brave to take a diet pill and not know its ingredients and how it works. Maybe it is a diuretic that makes you lose fluids as 1 kg a day is a lot! I shy away from diet pills after I attended a medical conference in Paris when they launched rimonobant. I read the research papers on the table and one of them had the truth in fine miniscule print...that some research participants ended up committing suicide and died. I was shocked when it was added to the NHS formulary but has since been withdrawn from the market after patients died. Ever since that experience of seeing Big Pharma release a drug with a lethal side effect, I try not to take any pills. In the UK they have orlistat which supposedly blocks fat absorption and sibutramine but that has been discontinued too due to increased heart disease and strokes.
> 
> At Regen, I asked the super skinny consultant how much she weighed as she was roughly my height and she said 43 kgs and needed to lose a bit! Wow like 94.6 lbs, I wish! Yes I noticed k drama and k pop stars are super skinny! For me to be that weight would mean a diet of 700 calories a day and no alcohol.
> 
> The only downside to actimel drinks is the sugar as sugar is carcinogenic in excess. I shall google the korean pill and see what I can find.


yeh that drug is a depressant. My surgeon was like "its like a caffine pill" ahem....no its more like a mild version of a certain party drug lol.......When i first took it i was like whoaaaa im high af. And i had to tell my secretary to cancel my meetings lol. Anyways I used it for 4 days in a row is the longest ive used it and the day i stopped i had a really bad come down. Like i was sitting on the couch and remember thinking to myself "im depressed......and i know there's no reason to be....besides that stupid pill which messed with my ceretonin levels!" The next day i was fine tho. I can't believe some girls actually used it for 2 weeks straight. I still use it now and then but i only use half a pill for 2 days when i wanna drop 2kgs quickly. I know.....its not good for you but vanity....


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## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> yeh that drug is a depressant. My surgeon was like "its like a caffine pill" ahem....no its more like a mild version of a certain party drug lol.......When i first took it i was like whoaaaa im high af. And i had to tell my secretary to cancel my meetings lol. Anyways I used it for 4 days in a row is the longest ive used it and the day i stopped i had
> 
> a really bad come down. Like i was sitting on the couch and remember thinking to myself "im depressed......and i know there's no reason to be....besides that stupid pill which messed with my ceretonin levels!" The next day i was fine tho. I can't believe some girls actually used it for 2 weeks straight. I still use it now and then but i only use half a pill for 2 days when i wanna drop 2kgs quickly. I know.....its not good for you but vanity....


That is interesting @K Couture as weight loss is indeed a side effect of the SSRI antidepressant ie prozac and many others in this group. SSRIs are structurally similar to cocaine so no surprise it can lead to agitation, weight loss, hypomania etc. People reported complete loss of appetite combined with the constant restlessness and agitation of the body would definitely result in fast and extreme weight loss.  But SSRIs also have a 33% risk of suicidal activation which has led to fatal suicides. My theory is that as 33% of patients are compliant with taking the med every day without skipping pills, this may be the same who experience suicide activation and the suicides I have found tend to be in conscientious people like an airline stewardess, students, headteacher, doctor etc. The SSRI weight loss side effect was exploited and sold as rimonobant a weight loss drug which I alluded to in an earlier post being withdrawn for study and patient suicide deaths. Do take care as ssri's can stay in the blood for up to 2 weeks when you stop. For some taking ssri's can lead to a deep depression, despair and impulsive thoughts to jump in front of a train, jump out of a window, overdose. It even comes with a black drug warning not to be used in young adults due to this higher risk of suicide.

I often wonder how many suicides in the world are actually attributed to SSRI antidepressants. Big Pharma makes a fortune on this drug, which is now also being marketed and offered to women for other reasons than depression! I would personally stay well clear of selective serotonin receptor inhibitor antidepressants.

Try probiotics like kimchi and actimel drinks which a DAPRS interpreter tried and lost weight when I suggested this (she was amazed I could wear jeans as an old lady), caffeine in nespresso which acts like a diuretic and drink water with every meal to fill up the stomach before you fill it up completely with food. This works for me.


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## MissOrange

Yesterday I took a selfie aged 52 to compare with what I looked like 19 months ago at age 50. Huge difference. The before was taken in October 2016 after 2 full face regular fat transfers with DAPRS. As you can see I was so upset it did not last and had endured weeks of monster DAPRS face only to look old again a month post the second fat transfer at DAPRS and 2 long flights to Korea in July and September 2016. The vermillion lip lift by Dr Choi at MVP had not lasted either as the photo is also 4 months post this. The after photo shows bullhorn lip lift after 16 months. Now that I have had a total of 5 fat transfers to my upper lids (last one was prp fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP) and 4 fat transfers to my full face (last one finally prp fat transfer), it seems to be holding now at 3 months post prp. Looks like for me I need 5 fat transfers for permanency. I may consider a 5th fat transfer to my lower face next year but for now I am happy. I showed Dr Seo at MVP a photo of the famous Korean actress/model Han Ye Seul and said make me look like her. Aside from needing a longer nose and platinum hair dye, he did a pretty good job on an ajumma! So much better than DAPRS clinic. I just need to stop applying Western makeup and try the Korean style. I may try professional hair dyeing at a hair training academy in London.


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## MOTTY26

What I noticed Ms. O is your zygoma, it appears smaller now compare before.. I guess its due to fat loss?  U really hit the jockpot in FG, suits u....I hope it will last as long as it can.  Yeah try the blonde or platinum hair color with korean make up style.... BTW u are Korean right?


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## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> What I noticed Ms. O is your zygoma, it appears smaller now compare before.. I guess its due to fat loss?  U really hit the jockpot in FG, suits u....I hope it will last as long as it can.  Yeah try the blonde or platinum hair color with korean make up style.... BTW u are Korean right?


Hi @MOTTY26 yes the positioning of the fg is excellent now and you are right my zygoma does not look as big or wide. I think even losing 1-2 lbs really shrinks the fat in the zygoma area and the converse is also true, ie gaining 1-2 lbs makes the cheeks swell up. I look best at 97.8 lbs in the photo trying on a pink chanel bag, but that is nigh impossible to maintain. Today I go to derma models and get botox for my crows feet for £100 as when I smile big the wrinkles show and I look 30s then. I should try going out with 1 of the 2 blonde ebay wigs on but am too chicken for now. Yes I am korean ethnicity and am struggling to learn korean. I have Saturday classes and it feels like I am back at school dreading going to class and leaving the homework until the train journey to class! Lol. It feels odd being the oldest in class but at least I don't look it. I used to always be the youngest in class as I skipped a year and was still top in my class in America but then Americans don't have a korean tiger mum parent like I did. My husband is now like a parent forcing me to go each weekend when I want to skip class or give up on it.


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## Luv n bags

I thought you did work on your lower face? The marionette lines are very prominent.  Quite honestly, the blond Asian you posted looks like she could be your daughter.  If you don’t compare yourself with anyone, then you look younger.  But when you compare yourself with this young gals, you look like their mom.


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## jsorchid

tigertrixie said:


> I thought you did work on your lower face? The marionette lines are very prominent.  Quite honestly, the blond Asian you posted looks like she could be your daughter.  If you don’t compare yourself with anyone, then you look younger.  But when you compare yourself with this young gals, you look like their mom.



Wow! What a vile nonesense! She looks great... period!


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## sasukami

tigertrixie said:


> I thought you did work on your lower face? The marionette lines are very prominent.  Quite honestly, the blond Asian you posted looks like she could be your daughter.  If you don’t compare yourself with anyone, then you look younger.  But when you compare yourself with this young gals, you look like their mom.



Of course, she looks like their mom. Nobody in their 50s can have the youthfulness of the 20s or 30s no matter how much PS they do. But she looks good for her age.


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## MissOrange

sasukami said:


> Of course, she looks like their mom. Nobody in their 50s can have the youthfulness of the 20s or 30s no matter how much PS they do. But she looks good for her age.


Are you looking at my current photo on the left? Han Ye Seul who dyed her hair blonde is 36 years old so I can't be old enough to be her mother. Stop with all this internet snarkery! I have hit the ignore button for @tigertrixie. That is the second time she has been nasty. I should not have given her a second chance. Thank you @jsorchid for calling out bad internet behaviour by grown women! Shameful of them.


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## MissOrange

Friends tell me I look better without glasses. What do you think? The little lumps by the corners of my lips are my diy radiesse filler. Waiting for the lumps to dissolve as I botched the placement so my contour is temporarily a tad bumpy and not smooth.


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## sasukami

MissOrange said:


> Are you looking at my current photo on the left? Han Ye Seul who dyed her hair blonde is 36 years old so I can't be old enough to be her mother. Stop with all this internet snarkery! I have hit the ignore button for @tigertrixie. That is the second time she has been nasty. I should not have given her a second chance. Thank you @jsorchid for calling out bad internet behaviour by grown women! Shameful of them.



Really? She looks so young - I thought she was only late 20s. So maybe @tigertrixie is right. It's better not to compare you with her because you do look like her mother when you put your photo next to hers, and yes I was looking at your current photo on the left.
I guess if you put your photos out there for validation, then you have to be open minded and accept people's honest opinions.


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## loves

MissOrange said:


> Friends tell me I look better without glasses. What do you think? The little lumps by the corners of my lips are my diy radiesse filler. Waiting for the lumps to dissolve as I botched the placement so my contour is temporarily a tad bumpy and not smooth.



Your fg result is excellent and you do really look young especially the upper face region so it is a pity to hide behind glasses. It's a cute look but it's good to mix it up a bit. I wish I'm a doctor too so I can diy fillers, not going to happen this lifetime so I will have to pay my ps for my annual top-up.


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## gazoo

You don't look like anyone's mother to me. You look like a beautiful, youthful woman. To know how accomplished you are, and gracious, as evidenced by your openness and helpful attitude here, is icing on the cake. You are also tiny, which contributes to the youthfulness, IMO. I keep hearing that in order to be "youthful", one must put on weight after 40/50, yet I'd say you look amazing. I hope you feel as pretty as I see you.


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## MissOrange

loves said:


> Your fg result is excellent and you do really look young especially the upper face region so it is a pity to hide behind glasses. It's a cute look but it's good to mix it up a bit. I wish I'm a doctor too so I can diy fillers, not going to happen this lifetime so I will have to pay my ps for my annual top-up.


Aww @loves yes the upper face is holding. I am trying to work out if I can fill up the lower face with fillers but am only experienced in filling my nasolabial folds or fly back next year for a 5th and final fat graft just to the lower face. DIY fillers is hard work sticking oneself with needles. For botox, doctors are not allowed to prescribe botox for oneself, so I was a guinea pig as a botox model for discounted £100 botox and boy did my heart rate hit the roof when one trainee said what is the orbital rim? Then all of the trainees prodded my face feeling for the orbital rim. I thought this is so unhygienic! And I was marked with unsterile pencil marks and had 6 trainees each inject once into my crow's feet with the same needle. One stuck the needle in my bone and made my whole body jolt on the couch in pain! Another asked the teacher what would happen if she injected too far away from the orbital rim and the instructor said it wouldn't work. I left thinking sometimes being a cheapskate is not good. I have to wait until tomorrow (3 days post) to see if any of the injections worked. So far I have 1 crease on the left and 3 still on the right when I smile. I am going back to paying a professional £150-£200 to do my botox.


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> You don't look like anyone's mother to me. You look like a beautiful, youthful woman. To know how accomplished you are, and gracious, as evidenced by your openness and helpful attitude here, is icing on the cake. You are also tiny, which contributes to the youthfulness, IMO. I keep hearing that in order to be "youthful", one must put on weight after 40/50, yet I'd say you look amazing. I hope you feel as pretty as I see you.


Aww thank you @gazoo. I was so upset by what I read by some posters, that I tossed and turned and could not sleep last night! I also had loss of apetite today so my weight plummeted back down to 97.8 lbs. Will be less tomorrow. Yes if a lady puts on weight in her 40s/50s then she has created natural fat graft and will look younger but the figure pays the price so in that case tummy lipo would work. My friend keeps saying you have to choose face or body as you can't have both. If you lose too much weight, the body looks great but the face will start to look gaunt and old. But the caveat is once you have had fat graft, then weight control is vital as gaining more than 2 lbs over the fat graft weight, goes straight to the face, in particular the cheeks! If one cannot diet, then forget fat graft and just gain a few pounds naturally to look young after menopause.


----------



## Taxmama2

Ms. Orange- I wish I could give you a hug and tell you how beautiful and smart and kind you are. People behind the keyboard can be so mean- I don't know why or what they get out of it- you have been so honest with everyone teaching us about your journey and answering personal questions.  I think people are envious because you are the entire package- you are absolutely beautiful, and don't let anyone let you think otherwise!


----------



## jsorchid

Taxmama2 said:


> Ms. Orange- I wish I could give you a hug and tell you how beautiful and smart and kind you are. People behind the keyboard can be so mean- I don't know why or what they get out of it- you have been so honest with everyone teaching us about your journey and answering personal questions.  I think people are envious because you are the entire package- you are absolutely beautiful, and don't let anyone let you think otherwise!


I totally agree. It still shocks me about the meanness of human nature. However, there are others than who shine and gives hope. One thing I do know is people who are mean are not mean only once, it’s their being. The vileness of their being spreads around them and eventually karma gives them exactly what they deserve.


----------



## MOTTY26

Dont let it get into you Ms.O.  Some people got plenty of time to troll LOL.


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## howmanyshrimp

Miss Orange, I think those people are so harsh because your makeup style makes you look older... If you changed it to fit current trends I think you would look much younger. I would actually like to see you in a trendy makeup style because you have the features for it


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## lemontea1234

Tbh miss o. If I didnt see your thread and just your display photo. I thought you were someone in her 20s. I think you look good for your age! And it is a hard balance to find for weight once you reach a certain age. I agree with howmanyshrimp, changing up your makeup style can take extra years off too!


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## MissOrange

Thank you all for your kind words. I went to my private messages and saw I have helped 160 members with free advice! It is nice to be thanked for my efforts to help others. It has been very hard posting my old ugly befores but I know it has helped members see I am a real person who managed to fix my ugly old face. 

I think I am used to caking on the makeup to hide behind like a mask so it has become a habit I need to break.


----------



## gazoo

I want to see you in some JLO style makeup. You're gorgeous, and could totally rock some glowy skin with smokey eye and nude lips. 

YouTube tutorials are gold for this.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on rhinoplasty. There are 2 types of noses...small upturned Barbie vs long and big. I think the most beautiful women in the world have long big noses, so if you have a natural long nose, even with a hump, please look at this collage and consider leaving it alone. My nose has gone from born small and flat to nice to long and big to infected to short and upturned and now back to normal again after spending 2 years massaging or rather pulling my nasal skin down to stretch it. Finally my left side is not as short as it was 2 years ago. Here is a collage of my noses on the left (the bottom left is today without makeup as either I wear too much or do it too Western or not enough Asian style and on the right are my fav actresses...Farrah with a long nose and Jun Ji Hyun with a long nose and hump. If I keep pulling my nose skin down, maybe I shall finally have a long nose in a decade with the help of gravity and skin sagging! lol. Remember tell yourself to stop after 3 rhinos, else you are on the slippery slope to a late Michael Jackson nose. I have used up my 3 rhinos so now I have to resort to nose skin pulling. . Excuse the messy orange hair. My poor super dry hair has now gone through 5 boxes of hair dye (3 extreme blonde bleaches, then back to light brown, then brown) and faces dark brown hair dye next week. At least multiple hair dyes are a lot safer and cheaper than trying out different noses! The caveat is that once you do embark on rhino, know that you may never get your old nose back and I have read so many sad cases and met a lady who desperately wanted her old nose back. She kept showing me photos of her old nose and how she missed it. Try photoshop and think 10x before you embark on rhino! And remember that when you lose weight, your nose thins too so you might not need rhino, and when you age, your tip droops which may fix a short nose, etc.


----------



## Mkvii

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on rhinoplasty. There are 2 types of noses...small upturned Barbie vs long and big. I think the most beautiful women in the world have long big noses, so if you have a natural long nose, even with a hump, please look at this collage and consider leaving it alone. My nose has gone from born small and flat to nice to long and big to infected to short and upturned and now back to normal again after spending 2 years massaging or rather pulling my nasal skin down to stretch it. Finally my left side is not as short as it was 2 years ago. Here is a collage of my noses on the left (the bottom left is today without makeup as either I wear too much or do it too Western or not enough Asian style and on the right are my fav actresses...Farrah with a long nose and Jun Ji Hyun with a long nose and hump. If I keep pulling my nose skin down, maybe I shall finally have a long nose in a decade with the help of gravity and skin sagging! lol. Remember tell yourself to stop after 3 rhinos, else you are on the slippery slope to a late Michael Jackson nose. I have used up my 3 rhinos so now I have to resort to nose skin pulling. . Excuse the messy orange hair. My poor super dry hair has now gone through 5 boxes of hair dye (3 extreme blonde bleaches, then back to light brown, then brown) and faces dark brown hair dye next week. At least multiple hair dyes are a lot safer and cheaper than trying out different noses! The caveat is that once you do embark on rhino, know that you may never get your old nose back and I have read so many sad cases and met a lady who desperately wanted her old nose back. She kept showing me photos of her old nose and how she missed it. Try photoshop and think 10x before you embark on rhino! And remember that when you lose weight, your nose thins too so you might not need rhino, and when you age, your tip droops which may fix a short nose, etc.


Thanks for offering advice in here. Your nose looks great.
If you're looking on going blonde id recommend schwarzkopf Blondeme bleach and developer. I got my boyfriend who has thick black hair like yours to light silver in one session with 20 volume developer! Couldn't believe how effective it was, I also hear joico blondelife is pretty good.


----------



## MOTTY26

Mkvii said:


> Thanks for offering advice in here. Your nose looks great.
> If you're looking on going blonde id recommend schwarzkopf Blondeme bleach and developer. I got my boyfriend who has thick black hair like yours to light silver in one session with 20 volume developer! Couldn't believe how effective it was, I also hear joico blondelife is pretty good.



I heard so much good stuff about Schwarzkopf BLonde Me Bleach, but dunno exactly which product to use, it comes with powerder and oil, which one did u use, this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Schwarzkopf-Professional-Blond-Premium-Lift/dp/B003ZPHWMG

Thanks!


----------



## Mkvii

MOTTY26 said:


> I heard so much good stuff about Schwarzkopf BLonde Me Bleach, but dunno exactly which product to use, it comes with powerder and oil, which one did u use, this one?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Schwarzkopf-Professional-Blond-Premium-Lift/dp/B003ZPHWMG
> 
> Thanks!


That's the one! 
You buy both (oil developer and powder), and mix as directed. I wasn't sure if it was nescessary to use the same brand developer, but it definitely makes a difference. I've heard it can reacts negatively with other brands of developer so it's kind of all or nothing.


----------



## MissOrange

Mkvii said:


> That's the one!
> You buy both (oil developer and powder), and mix as directed. I wasn't sure if it was nescessary to use the same brand developer, but it definitely makes a difference. I've heard it can reacts negatively with other brands of developer so it's kind of all or nothing.


I just read the reviews on amazon. The great ones say turned black to blonde in one application but the bad reviews say hair loss, ptsd, fried scalp, etc. Just my luck I would fall under the not so lucky category. I think I would need above the shoulder length hair to do this so will wait till I am brave enough to cut my hair that short...maybe when I am 60 lol. For now, tomorrow I go back to dark brown as I can then keep my long hair. Just needs treatments now as it is so dry!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on choosing the best hair colour to make you look younger. I applied L'Oréal excellence natural dark brown and it turned out black in yellow light (see first photo) and dark brown in daylight (see second). Now that I have a s9 I don't have to worry about picture memory. Back to taking selfies. Weight is 98.8 lbs after I stopped pravastatin which made me gain 0.5 lbs a day! I watched my weight go up each day even on days I only ate 1 meal! Then I stopped it and the weight dropped off at 0.6 lbs a day. Phew. Not saying you should stop your statin for cholesterol but for me it is not working out. Excuse the bulging eye. I was trying to look at the camera from an odd angle in the first photo.

As for being a botox model turns out the students use low doses so it didn't work on my crows feet so I am going back for a top up on Sunday. Next time will go with the UK President of the College of Aesthetic Medicine with 15 years experience Dr Paul Charlson. The grease on my hair is argan oil to try to add moisture to hair that has been bleached 6 times in the past month.

The 3rd picture shows how to correct a short upturned nose with time ie 2 years of gravity and pulling the nose skin down regularly as it was too upturned on the left and now it is fine. Saved me a 4th rhino.

And the bottom photo shows that I have just eaten as my fat graft has swelled a little.

Finally today on skin. Ladies have commented on my complexion. I drink a lot of evian water daily to hydrate and take doxycycline after each operation which is a powerful antibiotic agajnst acne too! Never had laser for my skin. I avoid the sun, apply sunscreen and wear Shiseido ' I 40' shade fluid foundation. Hope all this helps.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is my face 2 hours after lunch when the fat graft has gone down. Maybe lactose intolerance affects the fat graft cells too?


----------



## keii

oh my goodness, you look so good! I really wouldn't have thought you were 52 if I went by your photos. I'm lactose intolerant as well and occasionally I'll have swelling and bloating if it's minor...so that might have affected the fat graft.


----------



## MissOrange

I have given up on home bleaching. Here I am trying on 2 versions of blonde wigs instead. Shall I dare go out in public with one on?

For those in USA you may upload the makeup plus app to change your hair colour, slim your face, shorten or lengthen your chin and enlarge eyes! I wonder how many clinic instagram photos are photoshopped. Amazing what apps can do now. The bottom 2 photos are with the makeup app.


----------



## MissOrange

Yay I look blonde! I tucked my hair in a wig cap first. Now to give my 60 yo husband a heart attack as I let him set eyes on me. lol. Aargh he forbids me ftom going out with a wig. These wigs are a good bargain at £14 each on eBay.


----------



## Kidclarke

The wigs will be easier on your hair in the long run! Looking great as always MissOrange. 


I keep telling myself to print out your thread so I can use the advice when I'm 50.


----------



## MissOrange

Kidclarke said:


> The wigs will be easier on your hair in the long run! Looking great as always MissOrange.
> 
> 
> I keep telling myself to print out your thread so I can use the advice when I'm 50.


By the time you reach 50, all the plastic surgeons I had will be retired! That's the problem with surgeons; they age too and then we have to start all over again finding a good younger surgeon as we ladies tend to outlive men.


----------



## Kidclarke

MissOrange said:


> By the time you reach 50, all the plastic surgeons I had will be retired! That's the problem with surgeons; they age too and then we have to start all over again finding a good younger surgeon as we ladies tend to outlive men.


I didn't even think of that!


----------



## DOLLH0USE

I got facial contouring as a 22 yr old, and YES, it speeds up sagging. I'm now struggling with a lot of dropped tissue around my lower cheeks due to zygoma reduction and slight jaw shaving. Younger patients looking for FC procedures, PLEASE make sure you understand how gravity works with facial tissues and that you will most likely need to take further procedure to prevent/reverse tissue sagging after FC. This is something I will be dealing with next year and am saving up for.


----------



## loves

MissOrange said:


> By the time you reach 50, all the plastic surgeons I had will be retired! That's the problem with surgeons; they age too and then we have to start all over again finding a good younger surgeon as we ladies tend to outlive men.



This is so true. That's why my husband and I tend to look for younger but not too young doctors and surgeons; the older ones would be retired or semi-retired not too long from now.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on why women over 40 must NOT get big eyelid creases as with hollowing of the upper lids with ageing, it makes the eyes look more distorted! Here is a collage of my old hollow sunken eyes with sad droopy inverted U shaped eyes vs prp fat graft to plump up my lids and lift my eye corners as a bonus. As you can see a small crease is good in older women like me. Here is another photo of an older lady with a large eyelid crease with hollowing too. This is what may happen to ladies who ask their surgeons to give them big creases. Don't! As you can see in both befores, when we age and lose fat in our upper lids or sub brows, it really adds decades. A facelift would not correct this so if you do want to get a face lift, make sure you get prp fat transfer to your upper lids. I had 3 regular lid fat grafts which all absorbed and 2 prp lid fat grafts so now my lids are permanently full and rejuvenated. A friend had her fat graft to lids done at gng and now has a ptosis on one eye as there is a fat lump now on her upper lid putting pressure over her eye! She went back to gng to complain but they refused to take the lump out! I have seen her before and afters. She looks like one eye is partially closed! Please get prp lid fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP. I am trying to make life simple for us older ladies. I tried Dr Kim at daprs three times (you saw my distorted face) and it all went in 2-4 weeks. With Dr Seo, my lids are now over 3 months and still full.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's second post is my after 3 full face regular fat grafts with Dr Kim at DAPRS clinic in Seoul. It all disappeared and left me with a flat bony old ugly face with sad droopy eyes. With tail hanging between my legs I asked help of Dr Seo at Mvp clinic this year to make me beautiful. He could have been offended I tried elsewhere but he was kind and not arrogant. I chose DA as I got a cheap quotation after hard negotiation but regretted it after 3 fgs. Ellen said she would match their price. That is why it is so important to pick the best at prp fat graft and don't choose someone because they are 250,000 won cheaper. For me only Dr Seo at mvp. I showed mvp my photo and Dr Seo made me beautiful in a day.


----------



## DOLLH0USE

I got facial contouring and FG at DAPRS two years ago and I have issues with sagging and most of my FG is gone.. My face looks very unyouthful, saggy, and gaunt from certain angles.. Your results look so good Miss Orange!! I will definitely consult with MVP for FG in the future. I consulted with them 2 years ago for nose and wish I had gone with them instead of ITEM. Their consultant and nose doctor were extremely kind, humble, homey, and realistic.


----------



## MissOrange

DOLLH0USE said:


> I got facial contouring and FG at DAPRS two years ago and I have issues with sagging and most of my FG is gone.. My face looks very unyouthful, saggy, and gaunt from certain angles.. Your results look so good Miss Orange!! I will definitely consult with MVP for FG in the future. I consulted with them 2 years ago for nose and wish I had gone with them instead of ITEM. Their consultant and nose doctor were extremely kind, humble, homey, and realistic.


Two years ago means we might have been at DAPRS the same time! Wow you had fc! I have looked at my before and afters and I think even getting my chin shaved here in the uk has led me to have wee jowls as before my mandible angles were sharp but now the skin is more curved as it hangs down. I think because skin and soft tissues are not excised then with less bony support, it just hangs.

I flew to DA clinic July and September 2016 and April 2017 for fat grafts and endured weeks of monster distorted face and battered bruised thighs only to have the fat graft then last max for a month each time, with the third one only lasting days and Dr Kim offering to take me back to theatre to inject more in the same trip but an awful general anaesthetic experience there scared me off for good. What an ordeal for nothing in the end and 3.5 million won total or $3000 not including the flights and hotel stays, and yes it does leave one with saggy skin as the process stretches and lifts the skin to shove the canula in to inject the fat repeatedly in multiple areas all over the face so once one starts getting fat graft one is either left with a saggy, deflated odd face once it has reabsorbed or one has to keep going back to Korea until one finds the best plastic surgeon who injects prp fat graft that lasts. I would only recommend Dr Seo at MVP clinic. There are 3 other doctors there but for me, I think Dr Seo is the best of the 4 and the longevity of fat graft is also dependent on the technique of the doctor and the ability to maintain one's weight at exactly 2 lbs above weight at surgery. My weight app shows a graph struggling to maintain at 98 lbs like a sine wave. A friend wishes she had chosen Dr Seo for her rhino but she went to Dream. I wish I had just never even tried DA clinic. I never knew that you can have full face fat graft and not look like monster face for weeks if done gently by Dr Seo. I only had one day of swelling on day 3 postop with Dr Seo and luckily that was on the airplane trip back to London so I just slept through it.


----------



## estheryuki

WOW you are gorgeous.  Just checking...you're not a promoter for MVP are you?  
I honestly am stunned you look so freakin young


----------



## MissOrange

estheryuki said:


> WOW you are gorgeous.  Just checking...you're not a promoter for MVP are you?
> I honestly am stunned you look so freakin young


Hi @estheryuki No I am not a mvp promoter. I am a retired UK GP. I paid full price for my 2016 surgeries at MVP in May and July and this year qualified for a multiple procedure discount. Everyone gets a multiple procedure discount if it is your third or fourth trip back to the same clinic as a regular patient there. So far my friends say I don't need anything doing so not planning to fly back for now.

Thank you for validating I look young. Yesterday I had my crows feet botox review with Dr Zack Ally in London who runs courses globally on botox and fillers. I loved seeing his facial expression of amazement when I said I am 52. lol. He asked me what I had done...boy did I go on and on about fat grafting, ulthera, liplift. It used to be taboo to say you had anything done but I am honest and if it helps others age gently all the better. He was keen to learn as he is also fighting aging and I was much older but did not look older. Believe me when you see your face age practically overnight, you become very depressed. As we women now live to our 80s who can bear looking old for another 30 years?

Last week I took my 23 year old daughter to the hospital and the doctor did not know who was the 23 year old patient! I thought really? You can't tell I am the 52 yo mother? lol

I think it is unfair that men and women look good in their 20s for just one decade of their lives before aging kicks in in their 30s to 80s. Why not enjoy looking your 20s best for 20, 30 or even 40 years and for an affordable price.

As an aside Vietnamese husbands naturally look young for their age and their wives older. A Vietnamese told me this is common in Vietnam. This contrasts the West where Caucasian men seem to age much faster than their wives. I wish I knew why Vietnamese men age so slowly?


----------



## estheryuki

MissOrange said:


> Hi @estheryuki No I am not a mvp promoter. I am a retired UK GP. I paid full price for my 2016 surgeries at MVP in May and July and this year qualified for a multiple procedure discount. Everyone gets a multiple procedure discount if it is your third or fourth trip back to the same clinic as a regular patient there. So far my friends say I don't need anything doing so not planning to fly back for now.
> 
> Thank you for validating I look young. Yesterday I had my crows feet botox review with Dr Zack Ally in London who runs courses globally on botox and fillers. I loved seeing his facial expression of amazement when I said I am 52. lol. He asked me what I had done...boy did I go on and on about fat grafting, ulthera, liplift. It used to be taboo to say you had anything done but I am honest and if it helps others age gently all the better. He was keen to learn as he is also fighting aging and I was much older but did not look older. Believe me when you see your face age practically overnight, you become very depressed. As we women now live to our 80s who can bear looking old for another 30 years?
> 
> Last week I took my 23 year old daughter to the hospital and the doctor did not know who was the 23 year old patient! I thought really? You can't tell I am the 52 yo mother? lol
> 
> I think it is unfair that men and women look good in their 20s for just one decade of their lives before aging kicks in in their 30s to 80s. Why not enjoy looking your 20s best for 20, 30 or even 40 years and for an affordable price.
> 
> As an aside Vietnamese husbands naturally look young for their age and their wives older. A Vietnamese told me this is common in Vietnam. This contrasts the West where Caucasian men seem to age much faster than their wives. I wish I knew why Vietnamese men age so slowly?



Oh wow, a retired GP that is amazing.  I'm a Korean American, 26f who is currently working as a nurse and night shift is hella rough on your face x_x
Thank you for your kind replies and recs, and I agree with what you say.  Being young and feeling young does WONDERS for a woman's self esteem!  Honestly I know it sounds dumb, but by your genuine reviews I think I have set MVP as the goal already! haha


----------



## MissOrange

estheryuki said:


> Oh wow, a retired GP that is amazing.  I'm a Korean American, 26f who is currently working as a nurse and night shift is hella rough on your face x_x
> Thank you for your kind replies and recs, and I agree with what you say.  Being young and feeling young does WONDERS for a woman's self esteem!  Honestly I know it sounds dumb, but by your genuine reviews I think I have set MVP as the goal already! haha


Thanks @estheryuki! I feel for you. I aged a lot from 500+ night shifts! I worked that out from working as a surgical resident in NYC for 2 years and then for the NHS as a surgeon and then GP. Stress and lack of sleep wreak havoc on one's face. I looked 50 in my early 30s (there's a photo of me on an earlier page of this thread). Now I am 50s looking 20s to 30s depending on whether my botox is due or not. I got married so I could quit my surgical residency as it was too hard. I was losing weight (weighed only 89 lbs and yet none of the doctors even noticed I was working myself to death), felt like a zombie from lack of sleep, and getting depressed. Now I hear my hospital St Luke's-Roosevelt has combined with Mount Sinai so they have fewer residents yet more patients and sites to cover! Incredible how I am reading of residents committing suicide there. With the US in recession and hospitals having huge debts from new builds, and doctors with massive student loans, it is a recipe for disaster. I was 27 when I quit the residency and its 1 in 2-3 nights on call and got married instead. lol. Although having 3 babies in a row felt like 3 years of night duty again (so I continued to age prematurely after 3 pregnancies) as babies do not sleep the night until they go on solids. Don't blame them. Who can sleep on a liquid diet? I was well into my 30s before I saught help from plastic surgery in the UK. This latest plastic surgery makeover was for turning 50 in 2016.

Beautify in Korea and then get married and try to work part time. Better for your health and looks! I am learning korean so I can try to blag local prices in the future! lol. To think I am double your age at 52! Time flies!


----------



## estheryuki

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @estheryuki! I feel for you. I aged a lot from 500+ night shifts! I worked that out from working as a surgical resident in NYC for 2 years and then for the NHS as a surgeon and then GP. Stress and lack of sleep wreak havoc on one's face. I looked 50 in my early 30s (there's a photo of me on an earlier page of this thread). Now I am 50s looking 20s to 30s depending on whether my botox is due or not. I got married so I could quit my surgical residency as it was too hard. I was losing weight (weighed only 89 lbs and yet none of the doctors even noticed I was working myself to death), felt like a zombie from lack of sleep, and getting depressed. Now I hear my hospital St Luke's-Roosevelt has combined with Mount Sinai so they have fewer residents yet more patients and sites to cover! Incredible how I am reading of residents committing suicide there. With the US in recession and hospitals having huge debts from new builds, and doctors with massive student loans, it is a recipe for disaster. I was 27 when I quit the residency and its 1 in 2-3 nights on call and got married instead. lol. Although having 3 babies in a row felt like 3 years of night duty again (so I continued to age prematurely after 3 pregnancies) as babies do not sleep the night until they go on solids. Don't blame them. Who can sleep on a liquid diet? I was well into my 30s before I saught help from plastic surgery in the UK. This latest plastic surgery makeover was for turning 50 in 2016.
> 
> Beautify in Korea and then get married and try to work part time. Better for your health and looks! I am learning korean so I can try to blag local prices in the future! lol. To think I am double your age at 52! Time flies!


Damn that is awesome, you have a great history! I agree with you on that last part  Korea is the place for beauty it seems


----------



## MissOrange

Today I determined to go out to an evening engagement in a wig...the stiff upper lip posh Brits didn't bat an eyelid! Then I met a 60 yo Chinese Brit who looked 30s! Amazing. So much for blondes having more fun. People were too scared to approach me. lol.


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Today I determined to go out to an evening engagement in a wig...the stiff upper lip posh Brits didn't bat an eyelid! Then I met a 60 yo Chinese Brit who looked 30s! Amazing.



Did you trade beauty secrets with her? Please share!


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Did you trade beauty secrets with her? Please share!


I wanted to ask her for her tips but her husband came and joined us. She wore little makeup and looked late 30s at most and natural which is amazing for 60. It made me think that it can be achieved when you see this face to face.

Tomorrow I meet another pfer in London. Hope to inspire her by seeing my face in person although she has a long way to go to reach my old age. I am keen to see her results too from her trip to Korea!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is a collage summary comparing pictures from age 17 with premature nasolabial folds, slight proptosis, small eyes, small mouth, thin lips and round face (my senior year US high school yearbook looking 100% korean and never had a bf), my almost 50 years old post rib rhino and chin shaving in the UK costing almost £10k which did not beautify me so do not spend a fortune expecting rhino and v line to create miracles (top right in 2016) vs the bottom two taken last week at weight 98.2 lbs (bmi 18.6) 4 months post prp fat graft and ulthera with Dr Seo at MVP clinic and 17 months post bullhorn lip lift with Dr Caroline Mills in the UK. Fascinating to see how weight loss and prp fat graft with ulthera can create a smaller face without zygoma reduction or v line or revision rhino. PRP fat grafting in the right hands can sculpt a face! And of course choosing the right hair colour. It looks like I am a cool complexion meaning black or platinum hair colour suits and not warm brown or orange or straw blonde. The little irregular lumpiness in the bottom face contour is my botched radiesse diy injection which I have now waited 2.5 months so far to dissolve on its own with another 3.5 months to go. A friend said usually people hit a wall, ie a time when they reach their maximum beauty possible and says I have somehow broken this wall and surpassed it by reversing time. But I was never this beautiful! I thank Dr Seo for creating beauty without breaking the bank.


----------



## xxzxxi

You definitely look better now than at 17!


----------



## MissOrange

xxzxxi said:


> You definitely look better now than at 17!


Thank you @xxzxi! I hope guys and gals get safe and good plastic surgery at a fair price. The cost of botched surgeries is immense as it includes psychological turmoil as well as financial losses. I like this forum because patients are now speaking up about their bad experiences to warn others so it doesn't happen to the next person. And I can motivate us ajummas that we don't have to live as invisible members of society after the age of 50.


----------



## missy_sana

Hi @MissOrange, it's been a while since I posted, but it was great to see your journey and results in photos and in real-life too!  Thank you so much for sharing your holy grail of tips, so I hope you don't mind me sharing some (makeup) tips too?

As I had suggested you before, please definitely experiment with some nude eyeshadow or in a fresh lighter shade!  I'm sure it'll make you look even more younger!   Or be brave and even go completely bare-lidded like how I did my eyes post-DES with Dr Seo, as you saw on me in real-life, because of the natural anatomy of my eyes (and sheer laziness), there wasn't much room to apply eyeliner anyway, unless I were to "tight-line" the eye rim or waterline. 

While its great that you're praising Dr Seo's work on your eyes, however, the dark eyeshadow and eyeliner are both hiding your lovely eye creases, and therefore not doing enough justice to Dr Seo's fine example of DES! 

So go treat yourself to a palette of eyeshadow shades, I hear that the Sleek brand from Superdrug gets top votes for their cheap but chic palettes, and maybe Sleek might have some fresh shades for summer.  And oh, remember to blend, blend, blend the eye shadows really well!  Sorry that I noticed, but high density photos do magnify every imperfection!

Hope you don't mind my suggestions xx


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Hi @MissOrange, it's been a while since I posted, but it was great to see your journey and results in photos and in real-life too!  Thank you so much for sharing your holy grail of tips, so I hope you don't mind me sharing some (makeup) tips too?
> 
> As I had suggested you before, please definitely experiment with some nude eyeshadow or in a fresh lighter shade!  I'm sure it'll make you look even more younger!   Or be brave and even go completely bare-lidded like how I did my eyes post-DES with Dr Seo, as you saw on me in real-life, because of the natural anatomy of my eyes (and sheer laziness), there wasn't much room to apply eyeliner anyway, unless I were to "tight-line" the eye rim or waterline.
> 
> While its great that you're praising Dr Seo's work on your eyes, however, the dark eyeshadow and eyeliner are both hiding your lovely eye creases, and therefore not doing enough justice to Dr Seo's fine example of DES!
> 
> So go treat yourself to a palette of eyeshadow shades, I hear that the Sleek brand from Superdrug gets top votes for their cheap but chic palettes, and maybe Sleek might have some fresh shades for summer.  And oh, remember to blend, blend, blend the eye shadows really well!  Sorry that I noticed, but high density photos do magnify every imperfection!
> 
> Hope you don't mind my suggestions xx


@missy_sana it was a great pleasure meeting you in person looking 24! Aww thanks for the make-up tips. Haha you saw me put too much eye make-up on. I keep forgetting I got my eyes and face fixed so don't need to cake on the make-up like I did before my surgeries. I guess make-up is like my safety blanket.


----------



## missy_sana

Hi again @MissOrange ,

How about experimenting with different shades of contact lenses too? Because from my experience, the more striking or artificial a shade of dolly lenses, the more heavy makeup I have to apply all over to carry off the look and to balance out my eyes, as my "dolly" eyeballs would literally POP out if I applied subtle makeup, haha.

 I think you saw that even with my natural brown-black irises, bare eyelids and no mascara, my eyeballs would have been more prominent if I hadn't applied bold fuchsia lipstick & pencilled brows to give some overall balance. I find that a certain shade of grey from O-Lens contact lenses helps to "recede" my eyes, therefore requiring less eye makeup.

As well as orbital decompression, I would love to have my high myopic eyes corrected with LASIK or... lens replacement surgery??  New kind of technology, am I right?.  As an NHS doctor, have you known or heard anyone with -12 dioptres (or more) had successful sight correction surgery with either procedures on the NHS, or as a private cosmetic procedure in UK or abroad? 

I can only dream for 20/20 vision, but having my high myopia halved would be desirable...  so that I can at least discern the faces of whichever plastic surgeon and staff members are in the operating room in my future adjumma procedures!  :-p


----------



## keii

missy_sana said:


> Hi again @MissOrange ,
> 
> How about experimenting with different shades of contact lenses too? Because from my experience, the more striking or artificial a shade of dolly lenses, the more heavy makeup I have to apply all over to carry off the look and to balance out my eyes, as my "dolly" eyeballs would literally POP out if I applied subtle makeup, haha.
> 
> I think you saw that even with my natural brown-black irises, bare eyelids and no mascara, my eyeballs would have been more prominent if I hadn't applied bold fuchsia lipstick & pencilled brows to give some overall balance. I find that a certain shade of grey from O-Lens contact lenses helps to "recede" my eyes, therefore requiring less eye makeup.


I can totally attest to this! @MissOrange, here are some photos of me with a natural grey contact lens that I think would really work for you and look really good with your eyes. I think this kind of blue contacts would also look good with your skintone and the blonde wig, since the contacts are not overly artificial looking but still transformative! My natural eye colour is dark brown, but these are opaque enough to cover it while still looking quite subtle. They're also natural enough that you can try softer makeup (more nudes/neutrals, or peachy/gold tones) to show off your eyelids


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Hi again @MissOrange ,
> 
> How about experimenting with different shades of contact lenses too? Because from my experience, the more striking or artificial a shade of dolly lenses, the more heavy makeup I have to apply all over to carry off the look and to balance out my eyes, as my "dolly" eyeballs would literally POP out if I applied subtle makeup, haha.
> 
> I think you saw that even with my natural brown-black irises, bare eyelids and no mascara, my eyeballs would have been more prominent if I hadn't applied bold fuchsia lipstick & pencilled brows to give some overall balance. I find that a certain shade of grey from O-Lens contact lenses helps to "recede" my eyes, therefore requiring less eye makeup.
> 
> As well as orbital decompression, I would love to have my high myopic eyes corrected with LASIK or... lens replacement surgery??  New kind of technology, am I right?.  As an NHS doctor, have you known or heard anyone with -12 dioptres (or more) had successful sight correction surgery with either procedures on the NHS, or as a private cosmetic procedure in UK or abroad?
> 
> I can only dream for 20/20 vision, but having my high myopia halved would be desirable...  so that I can at least discern the faces of whichever plastic surgeon and staff members are in the operating room in my future adjumma procedures!  :-p


Wow -12! I only know that wavefront lasik is the best procedure but not sure for such a high prescription. Grey contact lenses sound good. Wow, @keii your eyes photos are so beautiful! I wish I could draw those fine eyeliner lines with wings. Amazing @keii you don't have any eyeshadow! I thought they were fashion model eyes photos until I read you said that was you! Stunning. Okay you both sold me. I am going online to buy natural grey contact lenses! Okay I have now bought a pair of stirling grey and gemstone green coloured Fresh Look colour blend contact lenses. I can look like the robots on the UK tv hit series Humans!

I have also ordered a real human hair dyed blonde wig from China. I am hoping human hair will look more realistic.


----------



## missy_sana

keii said:


> I can totally attest to this! @MissOrange, here are some photos of me with a natural grey contact lens that I think would really work for you and look really good with your eyes. I think this kind of blue contacts would also look good with your skintone and the blonde wig, since the contacts are not overly artificial looking but still transformative! My natural eye colour is dark brown, but these are opaque enough to cover it while still looking quite subtle. They're also natural enough that you can try softer makeup (more nudes/neutrals, or peachy/gold tones) to show off your eyelids
> View attachment 4098693
> 
> View attachment 4098694
> View attachment 4098695



@keii , what gorgeous eyes you have!  ~ drools ~

Which brand of contact lenses are used in your pics here?

@MissOrange , I'm terrible at applying eyeliner too, let alone sculpt the perfect wing shape!  I've tried so many 24-hour & smudge proof & waterproof eyeliners, but it all disintegrates on my oily eyelids within a couple hours and I look like a drag queen with panda eyes.  Guess I'll stick to eyeshadow...


----------



## keii

MissOrange said:


> . Wow, @keii your eye photos are so beautiful! I wish I could draw those fine eyeliner lines with wings. Amazing @keii you don't have any eyeshadow! I thought they were fashion model eye photos until I read you said that was you! Stunning. Okay you both sold me. I am going online to buy natural grey contact lenses!





missy_sana said:


> @keii , what gorgeous eyes you have!  ~ drools ~Which brand of contact lenses are used in your pics here?



@missy_sana and @MissOrange thank you, ladies! it's actually the angles make it flattering haha (although I am contemplating des since my eyelash extensions or false lashes push up my double eyelid ><).
I am using the brand ttdeye (they're an online vendor) in polar lights grey (photo 1&2) and queen blue (photo 3)~ I am wearing a  peachy eyeshadow on the lid in the 2nd photo and red eyeshadow on the outer corners for definition (palette from etude house). For the 3rd photo, it's mainly a very nude glitter shadow (angelfire from urban decay) 

For really good eyeliner: I use the following:

K-Palette Real Lasting 1 Day Tattoo Liquid Line_r_
Kat Von D Tattoo Liner _(phasing this one out though)_
Missha Matt Effect Pen Liner
I've also used the NYX Matte Liquid Liner for sharp inner corners.


----------



## Picturethis

Hi, @MissOrange I'm interested in having a lip lift. Would you recommend having it done in Seoul? I searched on different clinics their web pages but I can't seem to find the procedure listed there. Are there any doctors who specializes in this or at least have experience in it.


----------



## missy_sana

Picturethis said:


> Hi, @MissOrange I'm interested in having a lip lift. Would you recommend having it done in Seoul? I searched on different clinics their web pages but I can't seem to find the procedure listed there. Are there any doctors who specializes in this or at least have experience in it.



Korea/Seoul has a different aesthetic of lip enhancements (e.g. a "rosebud" lip look) and different surgical approach to a lip lift than what is offered in other parts of the world (e.g. a Brigitte Bardot rabbit look in US/UK).  

Make sure you make it clear whether a Korean surgeon is offering you a bullhorn cut below the nostrils, or a cut on the (vermillion) upper lip border.

I've seen some posts about different clinics discussed here on the forums, so try a keyword search through the posts.


----------



## Picturethis

@missy_sana Thank you, could you explain please what the difference in aesthetics and surgical approach is. I definitely want to have the cut below the nostrils and not on the lips.


----------



## missy_sana

Picturethis said:


> @missy_sana Thank you, could you explain please what the difference in aesthetics and surgical approach is. I definitely want to have the cut below the nostrils and not on the lips.



The "western" bullhorn approach would yank up the Cupid's bow (and maybe also the lip corners) between 3-10mm to create a dramatic lip lift that usually results in a "rabbit teeth" look often seen in young girls and the likes of Georgia May Jagger and Brigitte Bardot in her youthful days.  If a lip lift surgeon is skilled enough, they would anchor the lift in layers under the skin, to manage the pulled tension and prevent stretched out scars.

 From what I've seen in the forum posts here, the Korean doctors favour a more conservative trim of 2mm approx along the upper lip border as they believe it is less scarring than a bullhorn cut.  But in reality, the immediate post-op result and recovery look is far from conservative, in my experience, and you would need a lot of patience to endure the healing period and accept that there isn't much difference in the actual Philtrum shortening and no teeth show.

@MissOrange also had this procedure done, which you can read up in detail about earlier in this thread and in SmittenKitten's thread.

I find consolation in the fact that my lip shape has changed, as the Cupid's Bow has been stitched more closely together from inside the mouth to create a more sexy puckered "rosebud" or "M-shaped" lip (see attached photo of a typical Ulzzang girl with rosebud lip shape).  Although I didn't requested that procedure per-se, it looks nice because my natural upper lip was previously lacking definition.  However, I currently still need to shape my upper lip with bold lip liner and lipstick to complete the look and disguise the scars.

  I also still have a pending lip filler injection that was recommended to me and which I paid for, but I have not had an opportunity yet to fly back to Seoul & get it done, because the doc said I needed more time to heal first (at the time, it was four months post-op).


----------



## MOTTY26

@missy_sana
do u know any site please that show what u've explained.  Its so technical I can barely understand hehe...   Im also interested in fixing my upper lips, its so huge (both my upper and lower, a bit similar to south african lips) and undefined but dunno how to make it look defined.  Im thinking if shaping it like a cupid's bow will do the trick.  thanks.


----------



## missy_sana

MOTTY26 said:


> @missy_sana
> do u know any site please that show what u've explained.  Its so technical I can barely understand hehe...   Im also interested in fixing my upper lips, its so huge (both my upper and lower, a bit similar to south african lips) and undefined but dunno how to make it look defined.  Im thinking if shaping it like a cupid's bow will do the trick.  thanks.



I've just posted a photo of a typical Ulzzang girl to illustrate what I mean about the Korean rosebud lip shape.  It's more of a dainty dolly pout, than a full puckered mammoth lip on the likes of the Khardashian girls and other western female Instagrammers.

@MissOrange has a photo of herself somewhere in this thread or SmittenKitten's that shows the immediate post-op stitching of her lip border, which I had as well and shudder to think back to.  Reminds me of horror movies where people get their lips sewn shut.


----------



## MissOrange

Picturethis said:


> Hi, @MissOrange I'm interested in having a lip lift. Would you recommend having it done in Seoul? I searched on different clinics their web pages but I can't seem to find the procedure listed there. Are there any doctors who specializes in this or at least have experience in it.


Hi @Picturethis
I would not recommend Korea for lip lift. They only do vermillion. Both @missy_sana and I paid for bullhorn liplift with Dr Choi at MVP and on the day of the operation were told Dr Choi was going to cut our lips. Devastated. Here is a photo of the cut lip with stitches and a philtrum still 20 mms. I thank Dr Caroline Mills in London for doing bullhorn ( cutting under the nasal sill) as I requested and reducing my philtrum to 11 mms.


----------



## Picturethis

@missy_sana Thank you so much for the detailed explanation!

@MissOrange Yes I read about it and that looks so scary. I really don't want the cut at my lips. Maybe I will go to the same doctor in London because I like your results and you look beautiful.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on facelift on the cheap. Threadlift may or may not last so is there another way? I watched a video on how a drag queen uses facelift tape to sharpen facial contours and get rid of nasolabial lines. He used spirit gum to stick a bandaid above his ears and then looped a tie through a hole he punched in the bandaid and tied it behind his head. They sell facelift tapes on ebay. They even sell bizarre face lift bands in China for the face and invisible face tapes to create a v line! 

I thought to myself, we women have hair! Why not tie a few strands on either side above the ear back tightly under our hair and secure the hair in the back with a bendie hair clip? That would cost just one reusable bendie hair clip? I have ordered my bendie hair clip on ebay. I noticed when I tie all my hair back, my face looks younger and now I know why. This way I can just tie back the strands that lift the face!

Here are the many ways of diy facelifts on the cheap and I haven't even begun to look at the creams.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on how we age. Fat grafting replaces the fat lost with aging and explains why I have had 4 full face fgs to reverse time but what do we do with bone loss with aging?! With so many girls and guys getting their jawbones shaved to small v lines what happens postmenopause when osteoporosis sets in and 30% and more of bone is lost? Will the face then shrink and sag or even worse collapse?

Here are images to demonstrate and why we should proceed with caution with any facial contouring surgery that cuts away bone until we figure out how to replace bone loss with aging.


----------



## catelet

Yep, that's exactly what's happening to my lower face.  I think my chin is shorter than it used to be (I've never done anything to it)--I'm ok with the shorter part, but now I have jowls which I, ummm....HATE lol. I have been using a skin-firming serum from Nivea that I do believe is helping a bit though. Although, it's not going to stave it off forever, unfortunately.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Yep, that's exactly what's happening to my lower face.  I think my chin is shorter than it used to be (I've never done anything to it)--I'm ok with the shorter part, but now I have jowls which I, ummm....HATE lol. I have been using a skin-firming serum from Nivea that I do believe is helping a bit though. Although, it's not going to stave it off forever, unfortunately.


Yep we both have jowls lol. When it gets bad I use my head compression bandage in hopes it works miracles. lol. What is this nivea skin firming serum? I need to search for it on eBay!

I keep palpating my mandible and I swear it is shrinking! lol. It feels like my mandible is only an inch from my teeth!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on different coloured contact lenses. So I bought stirling grey and gemstone green contacts. But it turned me into a cat! lol.

I think changing my glasses frames to red and keeping my brown eyes looks better. 

Remember if you are in your 40s or 50s, don't give up. You can rejuvenate and relive your youth!


----------



## catelet

@MissOrange, good to know I'm not alone! The product by Nivea is called Skin Firming and Smoothing concentrated serum. Someone told me about it who was thrilled with the product and even wrote the manufacturer to keep making it as they took it off the shelves--it's hard to find in some areas! 

I've been using it on my jowls for 2 months, and I believe it has visibly diminished them and I am quite pleased. I'm also using it on my upper arm area a bit--they are better also, but I have also been exercising my arms and the improvement there could be attributable to that (frankly my arms look 10 years younger it's amazing what exercise can do). I wonder about facial exercise.... I also wonder about the face strap you showed above in your post. Whatever works and especially if it's non-invasive!


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange, good to know I'm not alone! The product by Nivea is called Skin Firming and Smoothing concentrated serum. Someone told me about it who was thrilled with the product and even wrote the manufacturer to keep making it as they took it off the shelves--it's hard to find in some areas!
> 
> I've been using it on my jowls for 2 months, and I believe it has visibly diminished them and I am quite pleased. I'm also using it on my upper arm area a bit--they are better also, but I have also been exercising my arms and the improvement there could be attributable to that (frankly my arms look 10 years younger it's amazing what exercise can do). I wonder about facial exercise.... I also wonder about the face strap you showed above in your post. Whatever works and especially if it's non-invasive!


Thank you @catelet! I shall buy now. Good to know you are seeing results. Too funny we both have the upper arm wings and lower face jowls to contend with. Okay they call it Nivea firming goodbye cellulite gel-cream q10 plus in the uk. Looks like the same thing. Wow the US label is a lot simpler.

My weight shot up to 99.6 lbs on korean food in 5 days and now I have a fat face too! It is so annoying to see my face fg bloat after korean food. Thank goodness I am not young and dating else no food on dates! The guy would think what happened to your face? Ugh. I can deal with tummy bloating with a baggy top after a meal but the face is out there!


----------



## Starry Eyes

Hi Miss Orange!

Just wanted to ask about the results of your Ulthera? It's been about 3+ months since you had it done right? Do you find there was a good difference in lifting / firming of the lower face?


----------



## phoebebuffey

MissOrange said:


> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.



I'm 25 but a mid facelift has been recommended to me by several clinics as I have very chubby cheeks, saggy skin, and not a defined jawline. Just... round. 

I'm concerned about the "idea" of getting a facelift at 25. Are there risks/complications down the line of getting a facelift so early?


----------



## phoebebuffey

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Picturethis
> I would not recommend Korea for lip lift. They only do vermillion. Both @missy_sana and I paid for bullhorn liplift with Dr Choi at MVP and on the day of the operation were told Dr Choi was going to cut our lips. Devastated. Here is a photo of the cut lip with stitches and a philtrum still 20 mms. I thank Dr Caroline Mills in London for doing bullhorn ( cutting under the nasal sill) as I requested and reducing my philtrum to 11 mms.


MissOrange - is a lip lift and a philtrum reduction the same thing? That photo looks SO PAINFUL! 

I was hoping to get a philtrum reduction but I don't think I can do that


----------



## melly215

Wait Wait Wait, You are turning 51 shortly? Waaaaw, your skin looks too fabulous...! How come you don't have any swelling on your eyelids? So you had your fat graft and everything at MVP right? I should certainly look through your blog


----------



## melly215

MissOrange said:


> I went back to Seoul last month for free eyelid fat graft top up with MVP clinic as my eyelids started to hollow a little and top up was included in the original 3 million price back in May 2016. Here is what I look like less than 2 weeks post top up. This time Dr Seo took fat from my tummy through my belly button. The white cream is hydrocortisone 1% which seems to help with my raised bullhorn scar.


I can't seem to be able to find your plastic surgery journey on your blog


----------



## MissOrange

Starry Eyes said:


> Hi Miss Orange!
> 
> Just wanted to ask about the results of your Ulthera? It's been about 3+ months since you had it done right? Do you find there was a good difference in lifting / firming of the lower face?


Hi @Starry Eyes

Yes I think it has improved my facial contour...into my 5th month now. It has made my jawline more v line. I have updated my profile avatar pic with a more recent photo. I would only get it done once. Once is enough as it is extremely painful.


----------



## MissOrange

phoebebuffey said:


> MissOrange - is a lip lift and a philtrum reduction the same thing? That photo looks SO PAINFUL!
> 
> I was hoping to get a philtrum reduction but I don't think I can do that


It is not painful if the cut is bullhorn under the nose. Don't get vermillion cut into the lip.


----------



## MissOrange

melly215 said:


> Wait Wait Wait, You are turning 51 shortly? Waaaaw, your skin looks too fabulous...! How come you don't have any swelling on your eyelids? So you had your fat graft and everything at MVP right? I should certainly look through your blog


Haha I am 52 now! Time flies. Yes I had successful fat grafting at mvp and short lasting unsuccessful fat grafting at DAPRS clinic.


----------



## MissOrange

melly215 said:


> I can't seem to be able to find your plastic surgery journey on your blog


I archived my ps journey article on my blog as ps is frowned upon in the UK.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is the most recent update @Starry Eyes. Selfie taken 4 days ago on the left. No need to return to korea next year. Yay! Showing a before my Feb trip to Dr Seo at MVP (on the right saggy lower face after 3 fat grafts with DAPRS) and an after 4 days ago or 4.5 months post Dr Seo sculpting my face. The lower face looks tighter with ulthera. So it does work after all! No wonder Christie Brinkley looks 20s in her 60s! Woohoo. Young forever!


----------



## MissOrange

phoebebuffey said:


> I'm 25 but a mid facelift has been recommended to me by several clinics as I have very chubby cheeks, saggy skin, and not a defined jawline. Just... round.
> 
> I'm concerned about the "idea" of getting a facelift at 25. Are there risks/complications down the line of getting a facelift so early?


Hi @phoebebuffey wow a facelift at age 25 is too young in my opinion. Sounds like you might need some fat graft sculpting with lipo to reduce the fat in the wrong places and increase the fat to inflate the face in others. Just an idea though difficult to say without a photo. Try the face touchup app to see how your face would look.


----------



## MissOrange

This is so cute! I found an unsponsored Chinese American vlogger on her des at mvp!


----------



## phoebebuffey

MissOrange said:


> It is not painful if the cut is bullhorn under the nose. Don't get vermillion cut into the lip.



Online MVP says they do philtrum reduction with the bullhorn method; when I asked them on Kakao they said they do both. Have you heard anything about the bullhorn method from MVP? I really like Dr Seo for rhinoplasty (I have a similar before nose to SmittenKitten's) and it would be great to do the surgeries together. 

I wouldn't get the vermillion cut... it looks SO PAINFUL and uncomfortable in your pic! ): Also, I want my philtrum reduced by more than 2mm. 



MissOrange said:


> Hi @phoebebuffey wow a facelift at age 25 is too young in my opinion. Sounds like you might need some fat graft sculpting with lipo to reduce the fat in the wrong places and increase the fat to inflate the face in others. Just an idea though difficult to say without a photo. Try the face touchup app to see how your face would look.



So I would either get buccal fat pad removal OR cheek/chin lipo (I don't think the fat in my cheeks is buccal, it's too low) - but because I've had a fat face since I was very little I don't think my skin would bounce back. So, I was recommended a mid face SMAS facelift by clinics (and KCouture after she saw my pics) for removing skin so there would be no sagging. I don't love the idea of getting a facelift but I would understand if I'd need one to prevent sagging skin bc I don't want that! 

BTW in your selfie from 4 days ago you look amazing!!!!


----------



## DanaLana

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on rhinoplasty and why you must only embark on this dangerous journey if your nose is severely deformed or broken. I am now 19 months post rhinoplasty with Ion and still look at my nose in the mirror each day asking myself if my nose is a good nose or a bad nose. I remember my consultation thinking oh wow you can give me a big nose. Sounds so simple. Wow, the morph picture shows a really big nose like magic. But when I went home and thought about it a little voice said, your little nose is fine, maybe you should cancel the rhino and just do the chin reduction. But then another voice said ooh nice big nose like Jun Ji Hyun and so simple to do. Just book, pay and wake up with Jun Ji Hyun's nose. And sure enough I did just that in March 2016 and woke up with Jun Ji Hyun's big nose that only lasted 2.5 weeks before it contracted and rotated up and stayed rotate up and short even after another rhino in May 2016.
> 
> It has been 19 months and I now ask myself whether the small short nose is actually better suited for my face? On my last trip to SK in April of this year I had booked consultations with tlps and gng to discuss zygoma reduction and revision rhino. Thank goodness I ran out of time to visit either as I could easily have ended up with further bone surgery and a different nose. But it does highlight how easily it is to be lured into a pursuit for the perfect nose. I then started reading all the Ion nose reviews on rs and why some were happy or unhappy with their noses. Sometimes I could see why they were unhappy, other times not and sometimes I couldn't see why they were happy with an imperfect nose and then even the ones who were initially unhappy eventually became happy with their noses! There didn't seem to be one perfect nose that fits all.
> 
> I think rhino is an extremely difficult operation and should only be contemplated in serious botched or deformed nose cases. It is not like trying on a dress and changing your mind and giving it away or refunding it. Once your nose is altered with surgery, because it is in the middle of your face and cannot be disguised with lipliner or false eyelashes, you have to see it every time you wash your face, brush your teeth, apply makeup or take a selfie. I can only alter it slightly with contouring.
> 
> Thank you readers who have been reassuring me that my nose is fine as it is and not to touch it. I think we all have blindspots and need a stranger to tell us what they see. Yes it could be improved but the price is too high of ending up with a nose one cannot live with and that risk makes rhino an extremely dangerous operation. And thank you readers and scrupulous clinics and max fax surgeon who said I do not need zygoma reduction. If you see someone who does not need a procedure, please continue to tell them so. It will sink in. Meanwhile here is a collage of an asian model with a nice big long nose and small face above one of my big Ion nose of 2.5 weeks and on the left my nose this week. The bottom photo is of my dream to look like Jun Ji Hyun!  No wonder I keep looking at my nose which looks like the exact opposite of her nose. lol. I think having doctor friends with serious life threatening illnesses puts things into better perspective.



I really love this post from you @MissOrange, than you for sharing. Wish I had read this before deciding to do rhino because its so true. The risk of coming out with a nose you won't like is so high and in retrospect my nose was fine. I ignored everyone who told me to not touch my nose because for my whole life I was unhappy with it. I should've at least done much MUCH more research before rushing at the chance to do my primary rhino at any seemingly "OK" clinic. Currently I am seeking revision rhino and will be very careful this time around on where I go for this procedure.. 

I am actually reading every post in this thread  Will continue where I had left off


----------



## MissOrange

phoebebuffey said:


> Online MVP says they do philtrum reduction with the bullhorn method; when I asked them on Kakao they said they do both. Have you heard anything about the bullhorn method from MVP? I really like Dr Seo for rhinoplasty (I have a similar before nose to SmittenKitten's) and it would be great to do the surgeries together.
> 
> I wouldn't get the vermillion cut... it looks SO PAINFUL and uncomfortable in your pic! ): Also, I want my philtrum reduced by more than 2mm.
> 
> 
> 
> So I would either get buccal fat pad removal OR cheek/chin lipo (I don't think the fat in my cheeks is buccal, it's too low) - but because I've had a fat face since I was very little I don't think my skin would bounce back. So, I was recommended a mid face SMAS facelift by clinics (and KCouture after she saw my pics) for removing skin so there would be no sagging. I don't love the idea of getting a facelift but I would understand if I'd need one to prevent sagging skin bc I don't want that!
> 
> BTW in your selfie from 4 days ago you look amazing!!!!


Hi @phoebebuffey, both @missy_sana and I fell for mvp's bait and switch with regards to lip lift.  We both flew from the UK and Hong Kong respectively and paid after consultation with Dr Choi confirming bullhorn liplift and then after we paid ( I paid 2.5 million won cash) we were then told on the morning of the surgery he would NOT do bullhorn but cut into our lips ie vermilion! No girl asks to be cut in her lip! It was either go ahead as I was already starved and gowned or lose 2.5 million won. I was sooo mad I warned girls on pf but poor Missy read my warning too late. Please do not believe them when they say Dr Choi does bullhorn as he never has for me or Missy. I would never let him operate on me ever again. I have seen 2 patients who had revision rhino with him as he is cheaper than most ps and were told he may use ear cartilage but both had revision with what was already in their noses and their post months noses are B grade in my opinion vs Dr Seo A* noses.

For primary rhino yes Dr Seo at mvp is the best in korea in my opinion which is why I say only see Dr Seo at mvp and not the others. Dr Choi owns the clinic and speaks no English. Dr Seo is a perfectionist and speaks a little English. He is so popular they hired a new doctor to help him with his workload. This is where you have to fight to get only Dr Seo like my UK friend did in January this year.


----------



## phoebebuffey

MissOrange said:


> Hi @phoebebuffey, both @missy_sana and I fell for mvp's bait and switch with regards to lip lift.  We both flew from the UK and Hong Kong respectively and paid after consultation with Dr Choi confirming bullhorn liplift and then after we paid ( I paid 2.5 million won cash) we were then told on the morning of the surgery he would NOT do bullhorn but cut into our lips ie vermilion! No girl asks to be cut in her lip! It was either go ahead as I was already starved and gowned or lose 2.5 million won. I was sooo mad I warned girls on pf but poor Missy read my warning too late. Please do not believe them when they say Dr Choi does bullhorn as he never has for me or Missy. I would never let him operate on me ever again. I have seen 2 patients who had revision rhino with him as he is cheaper than most ps and were told he may use ear cartilage but both had revision with what was already in their noses and their post months noses are B grade in my opinion vs Dr Seo A* noses.
> 
> For primary rhino yes Dr Seo at mvp is the best in korea in my opinion which is why I say only see Dr Seo at mvp and not the others. Dr Choi owns the clinic and speaks no English. Dr Seo is a perfectionist and speaks a little English. He is so popular they hired a new doctor to help him with his workload. This is where you have to fight to get only Dr Seo like my UK friend did in January this year.


WOW thank you for your reply! Missy messaged me but I didn't realize it was MVP that you both had gone to, who had done the bait and switch.

Horrible!! 

I'll wait on philtrum reduction, then, until I can do it in the US.

And I plan on fighting for Dr Seo! My nose is my hardest feature and the one I'm most concerned about PS with. I want to get it right the first time. Do you think MVP would participate in "doctor switching"? Like, if I was told I was getting Dr Seo but without my consent/knowledge they gave me someone else? I've heard about this and it really scares me, but I don't know how common it is anymore... (I think I read that SK cracked down on this?)


----------



## MissOrange

phoebebuffey said:


> WOW thank you for your reply! Missy messaged me but I didn't realize it was MVP that you both had gone to, who had done the bait and switch.
> 
> Horrible!!
> 
> I'll wait on philtrum reduction, then, until I can do it in the US.
> 
> And I plan on fighting for Dr Seo! My nose is my hardest feature and the one I'm most concerned about PS with. I want to get it right the first time. Do you think MVP would participate in "doctor switching"? Like, if I was told I was getting Dr Seo but without my consent/knowledge they gave me someone else? I've heard about this and it really scares me, but I don't know how common it is anymore... (I think I read that SK cracked down on this?)


Write on your surgical consent form only Dr Seo in big capital letters! And keep telling Dr Seo only you!!! You are the best and I flew across the world just for you! lol


----------



## melly215

MissOrange said:


> Here is the most recent update @Starry Eyes. Selfie taken 4 days ago on the left. No need to return to korea next year. Yay! Showing a before my Feb trip to Dr Seo at MVP (on the right saggy lower face after 3 fat grafts with DAPRS) and an after 4 days ago or 4.5 months post Dr Seo sculpting my face. The lower face looks tighter with ulthera. So it does work after all! No wonder Christie Brinkley looks 20s in her 60s! Woohoo. Young forever!



Waaaaaw! I can defo. see the difference! And I never knew who Christie Brinkley although I might have come across her somewhere, but if she is in her 60s and looking like that....woooow. I mean, her plastic surgery has been really successful...! Respect....


----------



## pear orange

MissOrange said:


> Here is the most recent update @Starry Eyes. Selfie taken 4 days ago on the left. No need to return to korea next year. Yay! Showing a before my Feb trip to Dr Seo at MVP (on the right saggy lower face after 3 fat grafts with DAPRS) and an after 4 days ago or 4.5 months post Dr Seo sculpting my face. The lower face looks tighter with ulthera. So it does work after all! No wonder Christie Brinkley looks 20s in her 60s! Woohoo. Young forever!


Wow, I honestly have a hard time believing you are in your 50s! It's amazing what plastic surgery can achieve. You look even more gorgeous than many people in their 20s. I hope I can look as good as you when I'm your age!

Thank you so much for sharing your PS journey here @MissOrange


----------



## MissOrange

pear orange said:


> Wow, I honestly have a hard time believing you are in your 50s! It's amazing what plastic surgery can achieve. You look even more gorgeous than many people in their 20s. I hope I can look as good as you when I'm your age!
> 
> Thank you so much for sharing your PS journey here @MissOrange


You're welcome @pear orange!

Today's post is on elastin. Yesterday I watched a tv documentary on lipodystrophy ie the lack of fat causing premature aging and saggy skin but the lady had normal fat distribution on mri! Her skin sagged due to lack of elastin or cutis laxa! She got a facelift but that lasted less than 3 years so if you are losing elastin this explains why in some women a facelift is temporary!

This means to prevent aging we must slow down our own loss of elastin by eating foods high in antioxidants, avoiding the sun ie apply SPF, get sleep, quit smoking, etc. Koreans eat kimchi probiotic with every meal! No wonder they have good skin. Add vitamin C in dark berries, oranges, broccoli etc. Stay hydrated with water. I am trying to get my 20 yo daughter to stop sunbathing every day for hours! She looks 25! Why don't daughters listen to their 52 yo mother? Is it because I look like a sister? lol. I worry she is losing her elastin if she continues.

Do your skin elasticity test by pinching the skin of the dorsum ie top of your hand. It should be tight and collapse back super fast like a rubber band. If not you have loss of elastin with aging!

Here is how lack of elastin in cutis laxa looks like.


----------



## mintsweet

MissOrange said:


> You're welcome @pear orange!
> 
> Today's post is on elastin. Yesterday I watched a tv documentary on lipodystrophy ie the lack of fat causing premature aging and saggy skin but the lady had normal fat distribution on mri! Her skin sagged due to lack of elastin or cutis laxa! She got a facelift but that lasted less than 3 years so if you are losing elastin this explains why in some women a facelift is temporary!
> 
> This means to prevent aging we must slow down our own loss of elastin by eating foods high in antioxidants, avoiding the sun ie apply SPF, get sleep, quit smoking, etc. Koreans eat kimchi probiotic with every meal! No wonder they have good skin. Add vitamin C in dark berries, oranges, broccoli etc. Stay hydrated with water. I am trying to get my 20 yo daughter to stop sunbathing every day for hours! She looks 25! Why don't daughters listen to their 52 yo mother? Is it because I look like a sister? lol. I worry she is losing her elastin if she continues.
> 
> Do your skin elasticity test by pinching the skin of the dorsum ie top of your hand. It should be tight and collapse back super fast like a rubber band. If not you have loss of elastin with aging!
> 
> Here is how lack of elastin in cutis laxa looks like.



I was LMAO at your frustration over your daughter not listening to you hahahahaha and Kimchi probiotic hahahahahaha. I will listen to you in the place of your daughter


----------



## thelilachour

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on different coloured contact lenses. So I bought stirling grey and gemstone green contacts. But it turned me into a cat! lol.
> 
> I think changing my glasses frames to red and keeping my brown eyes looks better.
> 
> Remember if you are in your 40s or 50s, don't give up. You can rejuvenate and relive your youth!



I always found dark eyes (of any colour but in particular brown) make one’s eyes appear more youthful, especially the larger diametre lens, which seem to hold eyelids a little more open. Maybe this is because I have green eyes and it makes me notice the vessels in my eyes a lot more than when I wear my brown contacts, because of the blue and green bringing out the redness. I purchased annual custom tinted (transparent but dark) rx brown contacts to give my eyes a natural dark rim and make the whites of my eyes look much whiter. The brand I use is from Alden Optical which ships internationally but requires custom fitting, in Walnut #3 (almost opaque it is so dark). Because it is slightly transparent it gives a nice dimensional, watery look. Dark limbal ring circle lens gave me the brightest eyes also, but do not come in the rx I need.


----------



## thelilachour

MissO I think you look amazing. I have been following you on here and RS in planning my own procedures in Seoul. From your pictures it appears your face is very proportional and symmetrical with plump, youthful skin. 

This year I had v-line, lip lift and Belkyra (Kybella) to remove some fat sagging from the v line. Next week I will be back in Seoul for face fg, breast fg (possible implants), body lipo and lower cheek/jowl lipo at FreshPS. Your recommendations and info on what to look for in clinics helped immensely! I cannot thank you enough. Only hoping for an even and symmetrical result like yours. 


I am happy you mentioned the topic of volume above upper eyelid/brows, since I had been looking for surgeons to fg this area since 2010. Lol. I did find a few in the US who specialize but they are extremely expensive and Seoul is a closer flight for me. So I will try to fat fill my hollow sockets with Dr Hong at FreshPS. MVP’s reply to my pictures didn’t give me too much confidence (I am caucasian and I expected they don’t encounter the deeper set, hollow eye sockets with thin skin I have that often for fg requests). I’m planning to ask Dr Hong for a conservative result on the first session to see how it goes.


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## MissOrange

thelilachour said:


> MissO I think you look amazing. I have been following you on here and RS in planning my own procedures in Seoul. From your pictures it appears your face is very proportional and symmetrical with plump, youthful skin.
> 
> This year I had v-line, lip lift and Belkyra (Kybella) to remove some fat sagging from the v line. Next week I will be back in Seoul for face fg, breast fg (possible implants), body lipo and lower cheek/jowl lipo at FreshPS. Your recommendations and info on what to look for in clinics helped immensely! I cannot thank you enough. Only hoping for an even and symmetrical result like yours.
> 
> 
> I am happy you mentioned the topic of volume above upper eyelid/brows, since I had been looking for surgeons to fg this area since 2010. Lol. I did find a few in the US who specialize but they are extremely expensive and Seoul is a closer flight for me. So I will try to fat fill my hollow sockets with Dr Hong at FreshPS. MVP’s reply to my pictures didn’t give me too much confidence (I am caucasian and I expected they don’t encounter the deeper set, hollow eye sockets with thin skin I have that often for fg requests). I’m planning to ask Dr Hong for a conservative result on the first session to see how it goes.


Hi @thelilachour, thank you for reading my ps journey and very glad it has helped you.

My Brit Chinese friend had his subbrow/upper lid area filled with Fresh last year but it did not last so in January of this year he had eyelid fat graft and revision des with Dr Seo at MVP and so far so good. His full face fat graft at Fresh is still good, especially his cheeks. So for subbrow/upper lids I would say Dr Seo wins over Dr Hong. My lids are still 100% full at 4.5 months post with Dr Seo. Both are good at full face fat grafts, just Dr Seo better at filling in upper lid hollows.

You could consult with both clinics as it is free and bring big photos of the lid fills you want. I did this so Dr Seo knew exactly the look I wanted. For my full face fat graft with Dr Seo I said you decide as in my opinion his ideal of beauty is amazing. 

You will be fine with Dr Hong but just be aware that the lid fat graft may not last and you may need to return to Korea to top up. I have had 5 eyelid fat grafts and now they are permanently full!

Today I have a GP appointment for my high cholesterol. Pravastatin made me gain half a pound of weight every day!!! And it would not stop so I stopped taking the pill and my weight dropped half a pound a day. Phew. As I see a different doctor each time in the clinic, I bet I will get the huh, you don't look 52! lol. And then they check my address, dob, etc as if I am an illegal alien! lol.


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## MissOrange

mintsweet said:


> I was LMAO at your frustration over your daughter not listening to you hahahahaha and Kimchi probiotic hahahahahaha. I will listen to you in the place of your daughter


Aww @mintsweet, are you a mother too? I took a photo of my youngest daughter's bedroom and whats apped it to her with the word 'unacceptable'. She has today to declutter her messy hoard before I do it. lol. Sometimes I wish these cheap outlets like Asos did not exist as my daughters are forever shopping online. I have run out of plastic crates to fill up with her clothes. Thank goodness there is a local charity shop where I can offload bags full.

I sent a whatsapp photo of examples of sun damaged faces to my daughters and have now ordered glycolic acid peel 20% and 30% from ebay to try on my 2 sun spots on my face and one small patch on the dorsum of my left hand. I count myself lucky that after 50+ years that's all the sun damage apart from crows feet which I get botox for. I never sunbathed in my teens or 20s which has helped enormously. If it works, I can show them and maybe they too will try it. I told them at this rate they will look 30s in their 20s! Boy do we mothers have to nag our adult children!


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## lemontea1234

Hahah @MissOrange, i know how you feel about the messy bedroom. The amount of times I've had to tell my sister to clean her room is frequently.  And when you tell them to hang out the laundry, they only hang out their clothes. Not the whole load. [emoji23] they just dont listen.

I feel you haha.


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## thelilachour

@MissOrange thanks for that, from today I think I will cancel the sx with Fresh. They also do not have an anesthesiologist and I worry there may be issues with keeping a good vein for the sedation (as there has been everywhere else I had sx - so most was done on local anes.) 

Now I have consults booked with Dr Seo at MVP (provided I can convince them I have enough fat for the body tx), Dream & SMPS. I am inclined towards MVP & Dream with them being on the same block as my dental work appts at TFD...

Your kids are lucky they have a mom to remind them the damage sun exposure can cause! Maybe they will save some money and not be needing IPL & pico laser for sun spots like mine lol


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## mintsweet

MissOrange said:


> Aww @mintsweet, are you a mother too? I took a photo of my youngest daughter's bedroom and whats apped it to her with the word 'unacceptable'. She has today to declutter her messy hoard before I do it. lol. Sometimes I wish these cheap outlets like Asos did not exist as my daughters are forever shopping online. I have run out of plastic crates to fill up with her clothes. Thank goodness there is a local charity shop where I can offload bags full.
> 
> I sent a whatsapp photo of examples of sun damaged faces to my daughters and have now ordered glycolic acid peel 20% and 30% from ebay to try on my 2 sun spots on my face and one small patch on the dorsum of my left hand. I count myself lucky that after 50+ years that's all the sun damage apart from crows feet which I get botox for. I never sunbathed in my teens or 20s which has helped enormously. If it works, I can show them and maybe they too will try it. I told them at this rate they will look 30s in their 20s! Boy do we mothers have to nag our adult children!



No, I am not a mom... I wish I have a boyfriend hahaha, but what lucky daughters. But seriously the sun damage is pretty critical. My grandma used to work at farm when she was young, and compared to my other grandma who was just a housewife..the difference is kind of obvious...Yeah but look at how Kylie and all these girls tanning, I would assume your daughters want to look sexy like them.


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## MissOrange

mintsweet said:


> No, I am not a mom... I wish I have a boyfriend hahaha, but what lucky daughters. But seriously the sun damage is pretty critical. My grandma used to work at farm when she was young, and compared to my other grandma who was just a housewife..the difference is kind of obvious...Yeah but look at how Kylie and all these girls tanning, I would assume your daughters want to look sexy like them.


Aww Korea will definitely make you a beauty queen! Yes I think growing up in the UK and snapchat means lots of young girls think tanning is sexy but without realising the long-term health and beauty consequences. My girls think anyone over 30 is old! lol. Sorry to hear your grandmother had to work on a farm when young. Being a housewife or office worker prevents sun damage.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on glycolic acid peel. I read a review of a home kit with amazing photo results (see attached) which got me thinking. If you go to a clinic it can cost £175 so I bought a small bottle of 20% glycolic acid for £5 on eBay and a tub of sodium bicarbonate for a £1 and yesterday set to work. I applied it for 2 minutes yesterday to 2 sun spots on my face and one on my hand and neutralised with the bicarb and today applied it all over my face for 4 minutes then neutralised with a scrub I made with the bicarb and water. Instructions say to only do once a week but as I had only done test areas yesterday felt I could apply all over. My face texture looks immediately whiter and smoother and the sun spot on my left hand is shrinking!


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## thelilachour

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on glycolic acid peel.



Looks great! I have not tried making my own glycolic peel but have used lactic acid (88%-90% then dilute until pH hits approx 2-3, unless I plan to deeply peel a thick layer such as a small scar then I keep it at 0.6-1.0) and love the water attracting properties. My city water has a pH of about 9.8-10.3 so I chilled it and used in place of bicarb for most peels, I’ve done varying degrees of knee and elbow peels with this to help pigmentation and crepey skin, then use a solution all over body at pH 4-5 when I need to go a few days without showing after sx. Sometimes I use to acidify my bath water along with kojic or ascorbic acid powder. Hydrates like wearing a giant sheet mask. Did the glycolic seem to help with keeping hydrated today?


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## MissOrange

thelilachour said:


> Looks great! I have not tried making my own glycolic peel but have used lactic acid (88%-90% then dilute until pH hits approx 2-3, unless I plan to deeply peel a thick layer such as a small scar then I keep it at 0.6-1.0) and love the water attracting properties. My city water has a pH of about 9.8-10.3 so I chilled it and used in place of bicarb for most peels, I’ve done varying degrees of knee and elbow peels with this to help pigmentation and crepey skin, then use a solution all over body at pH 4-5 when I need to go a few days without showing after sx. Sometimes I use to acidify my bath water along with kojic or ascorbic acid powder. Hydrates like wearing a giant sheet mask. Did the glycolic seem to help with keeping hydrated today?


Wow that's intense! I failed organic chemistry lab so had to redo. Am really surprised I can apply this straight out of the bottle with a cotton q tip and pad for the face, then neutralise by mixing some baking soda with water but I added too much water so had to pour more baking soda to make a paste.

Tomorrow I shall reapply until my face and hands are like a baby's skin!


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## MOTTY26

Hi Ms. O, I wonder if glycolic acid peel can also help remove or lighten birth marks?  I have mark on my face.   If not,  do u know if  any any treatment that can remove it?  

I saw one in Youtube (I forgot what's its called), they will peel your whole face ... its a form of laser treatment but needs to be applied on the whole face.  So one will look like a  fried chicken right after, then after few days the old skin will peel off.  

Im not sure if I will go thru that though,   why not just correct the area that has a problem.  Like an isolated treatment.


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## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Hi Ms. O, I wonder if glycolic acid peel can also help remove or lighten birth marks?  I have mark on my face.   If not,  do u know if  any any treatment that can remove it?
> 
> I saw one in Youtube (I forgot what's its called), they will peel your whole face ... its a form of laser treatment but needs to be applied on the whole face.  So one will look like a  fried chicken right after, then after few days the old skin will peel off.
> 
> Im not sure if I will go thru that though,   why not just correct the area that has a problem.  Like an isolated treatment.


Hi @MOTTY26 I know how you feel. I am determined to get rid of 2 brown sunspots on my left cheek. I tried sliced raw potatoes which helped a little a while back but is too cumbersome to do every day. Seems the face spots are more stubborn than my hand. Will try a 3rd time with glycolic acid just on the spots and once I crack it will show the b&a. I may need to go up to 30%. If this works then you can try just on your birthmarks to see if it lightens or reduces.

I used to have a tca chemical peel which like you say fries the face and you peel off the flaky skin to reveal pink raw skin which took 4-5 days in total to recover from but they stopped making that particular kit.


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## MissOrange

A warning to all members posting full faces on this site...they show up on google images! I wish I had never posted my old ugly befores or bruised face or botched photos. Aargh.

I have stopped adding photos with my full features as they all show up on google! I thought pf was secure but apparently not the images. An American friend also found my images from the pf threads on Google just by typing Missorange and fat graft. So I strongly advise disguising your photos with cropping out any identifiable features. Was happy to share my photos in a closed forum but realise it is not closed but open to all to see on google images!


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## Aldenxwong

Hi missorange! Just wondering do u have any recommendation of which clinic to go for fat graft?


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## Gats

MissOrange said:


> A warning to all members posting full faces on this site...they show up on google images! I wish I had never posted my old ugly befores or bruised face or botched photos. Aargh.
> 
> I have stopped adding photos with my full features as they all show up on google! I thought pf was secure but apparently not the images. An American friend also found my images from the pf threads on Google just by typing Missorange and fat graft. So I strongly advise disguising your photos with cropping out any identifiable features. Was happy to share my photos in a closed forum but realise it is not closed but open to all to see on google images!



I would try asking PF if they could request Google remove the image from their results, it's definitely doable but the site owners need to initiate it. The photos can be kept on this site but removed from Google. I've done this before with a site I controlled.


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## MissOrange

Aldenxwong said:


> Hi missorange! Just wondering do u have any recommendation of which clinic to go for fat graft?


Hi @Aldenxwong I can recommend Dr Seo at MVP clinic who did my fat grafting which has lasted now into the 5th month and no monster face postop. I cannot recommend Dr Kim at DAPRS clinic who gave me a monster face postop for days and then absorption of fat graft 2-12 weeks post each of the 3 face fgs I had with him. My Brit Chinese friend had fat graft with Dr Hong at Fresh and his cheeks look perfect but his lid fg absorbed so he had them refilled by Dr Seo at MVP and he is happy. Dr Seo is the best for eyelid fg and excellent for full face fg. Just tell him to do what he wants to make you beautiful.


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## Quick2014

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Aldenxwong I can recommend Dr Seo at MVP clinic who did my fat grafting which has lasted now into the 5th month and no monster face postop. I cannot recommend Dr Kim at DAPRS clinic who gave me a monster face postop for days and then absorption of fat graft 2-12 weeks post each of the 3 face fgs I had with him. My Brit Chinese friend had fat graft with Dr Hong at Fresh and his cheeks look perfect but his lid fg absorbed so he had them refilled by Dr Seo at MVP and he is happy. Dr Seo is the best for eyelid fg and excellent for full face fg. Just tell him to do what he wants to make you beautiful.





MissOrange said:


> Hi @Aldenxwong I can recommend Dr Seo at MVP clinic who did my fat grafting which has lasted now into the 5th month and no monster face postop. I cannot recommend Dr Kim at DAPRS clinic who gave me a monster face postop for days and then absorption of fat graft 2-12 weeks post each of the 3 face fgs I had with him. My Brit Chinese friend had fat graft with Dr Hong at Fresh and his cheeks look perfect but his lid fg absorbed so he had them refilled by Dr Seo at MVP and he is happy. Dr Seo is the best for eyelid fg and excellent for full face fg. Just tell him to do what he wants to make you beautiful.


Hello miss Orange,
I have been following your threads and decided to have full face FG done @ MVP in couple months. Had FG done in previous but the remaining about 30% and some lumpy areas (possible my intake).
Please PM me when you have some spare times. 
Thank you.


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## MissOrange

Quick2014 said:


> Hello miss Orange,
> I have been following your threads and decided to have full face FG done @ MVP in couple months. Had FG done in previous but the remaining about 30% and some lumpy areas (possible my intake).
> Please PM me when you have some spare times.
> Thank you.


Will.PM ypu now @Quick2014.


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## MissOrange

Here is an update at almost 5 months. Still holding! Lids are 100% full and face also looks nice and full. Picture is pixelated as pf have not replied to my request to ask google to remove my pf images and don't want anymore postop photos on Google. Grrr.

One friend has picked Mascaro $2750 in Florida for her bullhorn LL and
another Miss Mills in London for £2450. Excited to see both results!

Just saw a b&a of a facelift by Dr Kwon at Aone on a 69 yo lady who now looks 50 with smooth jaw contours! Wow another ps to research for my facelift in years to come. Funny and good how asps refused me a facelift. I got that "whatcha talking about" Arnold US sitcom look.


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## MissOrange

Today's post compares my sunken lower old face a month after the second full face fg at DAPRS clinic vs today almost 5 months post MVP Dr Seo's full face fg. In both photos I weigh 99 lbs. Finally my lower face has plumped up permanently and did not disappear after a month! Forget DA clinic! Dr Seo of MVP is so much better than Dr Kim of DA.

A fg tip..make sure you weigh 2 lbs less than your ideal weight when you go for fg so that after when you have to gain 2 lbs to help the fg survive you look normal and not balloon face.


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## Gats

@MissOrange, did you have any filler to laugh lines done after your MVP FG as I remember you mentioned fat survival for areas that move a lot like around the mouth is low so I assumed it's hard for FG around the mouth to survive. Did Dr. Seo inject fat below your mouth to the area in the middle area between your chin and lower lip? It looks like it but I'm not sure as it could be the difference in lighting in the pics. Thanks!


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> @MissOrange, did you have any filler to laugh lines done after your MVP FG as I remember you mentioned fat survival for areas that move a lot like around the mouth is low so I assumed it's hard for FG around the mouth to survive. Did Dr. Seo inject fat below your mouth to the area in the middle area between your chin and lower lip? It looks like it but I'm not sure as it could be the difference in lighting in the pics. Thanks!


Hi @Gats,

I injected radiesse dermal filler into the nasolabial folds. I have done that for over a decade twice yearly.

Yes Dr Seo injected a lot of fat into my chin area and lower face around my mouth so no marionette lines. It is very promising as some tpfers have messaged me how their fg absorbed within a month elsewhere. And Dr Kim at DA said fg reabsorbs fast around the mouth from movement but that hasn't happened with Dr Seo.


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## gazoo

You look beautiful. So youthful. 

Everything I've read indicates a LL doesn't last. The lip starts to fall within months. Has yours?


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## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> You look beautiful. So youthful.
> 
> Everything I've read indicates a LL doesn't last. The lip starts to fall within months. Has yours?


Hi @gazoo,

I just measured and it is 11 mms at the top of my Cupid's bow and 12 mms in the centre at 18 months postop so has lasted! I think it depends on whether the muscle is cut like smas. With vermilion, only skin was trimmed so it did not last and dropped within a few months. Miss Mills is a maxillofacial surgeon so did the bullhorn like smas.

I guess for those choosing Mascaro in Florida my advice is to find real patients at 1 year post to see if it dropped or not. His suturing is really nice but seems too conservative in cutting unless you push and he agrees.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is an almost 5 month update. The mvp Dr Seo fg is holding nicely and my lids are still full. Now it is a matter of waiting until the next time I need an overhaul which seems to be every 15 years and not be tempted to bog it with unnecessary impulsive procedures. I have had my share of mistakes!


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @gazoo,
> 
> I just measured and it is 11 mms at the top of my Cupid's bow and 12 mms in the centre at 18 months postop so has lasted! I think it depends on whether the muscle is cut like smas. With vermilion, only skin was trimmed so it did not last and dropped within a few months. Miss Mills is a maxillofacial surgeon so did the bullhorn like smas.
> 
> I guess for those choosing Mascaro in Florida my advice is to find real patients at 1 year post to see if it dropped or not. His suturing is really nice but seems too conservative in cutting unless you push and he agrees.[/QUOTE
> Well, speaking of Mascaro. I just saw photos of a patient who took photos 1 day post op and she looks amazing. Hardly any bruising and minor swelling.  Great stitching and she is so happy.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

Well, speaking of Mascaro. I just saw photos of a patient who took photos 1 day post op and she looks amazing. Hardly any bruising and minor swelling. Great stitching and she is so happy.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on celebrating 25 years of marriage looking 25! My Korean language teacher is a year older than my real age and kept saying I look 20s and even have a girl's figure. No secret. Just go to mvp and see Dr Seo! I worked out fg at 2 million ($2000) and top up at 1 million is cheaper than smas facelift at 13 million won!


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## Honeyjello

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on celebrating 25 years of marriage looking 25! My Korean language teacher is a year older than my real age and kept saying I look 20s and even have a girl's figure. No secret. Just go to mvp and see Dr Seo! I worked out fg at 2 million ($2000) and top up at 1 million is cheaper than smas facelift at 13 million won!



Miss Orange! You should keep sporting this hairstyle. Black and straight long hair makes you look younger!


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## MissOrange

Honeyjello said:


> Miss Orange! You should keep sporting this hairstyle. Black and straight long hair makes you look younger!


Thanks @Honeyjello! I have dyed my hair with l'oreal excellence box colour 4 dark brown then 5 brown to try to lighten the black but it seems to keep my hair a natural black now.

For 2 years I have been trying so hard to get back the Korean mvp face I had in July 2016 before I had 3 fgs at DA between July 2016 and April 2017 which distorted my face. Sigh. Here is the latest comparison of now vs the MVP face in July 2016. I guess I have to live with a eurasian face as I can't recreate the beautiful 18 yo looking korean face again. Sigh. I remember walking into a korean pharmacy back then and the pharmacist telling me how beautiful I was. Never happened after I got a DA monster face a few days later and went back to the chemist for tylenol weeping chanting nega miwa, nega miwa (I ugly, I ugly) like a mad woman who had foolishly wrecked her face. Lesson is be careful you are not too greedy with ps. If you look good, stop! It is nigh impossible to get back the same beautiful face once altered yet again with plastic surgery! I must have 100 faces! lol. I suppose the good news is that the des with ptosis correction by Dr Seo at MVP has maintained its shape for 26 months and Dr Seo at MVP tried his best to make me beautiful again Feb 2018 after I wrecked it at DA. I only had the young 18 yo Korean face for 2 days of my life! Aargh. I still regret going to DA Clinic 2 years on. I bet I will regret DA for the next 30 years.


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## MissOrange

Here is a 6 month update at 99.2 lbs on fg with Dr Seo at MVP. Yay I made it to 6 months and my full face fg is still full!!! I have cracked it! Lose 2 lbs before fat graft (a tpfer saw Ellen after my last trip in Feb and Ellen said I looked worryingly thin...heehee 96.8 lbs at fg op so I could gain 2-3 lbs postop and not have balloon face!) and then gain 2-3 lbs after fat graft for longevity! Sempre viva! No way do I look 52! Just like Isabella Rossellini in "Death becomes her" I shall look eternally youthful!  This means I don't see Dr Seo again till I am 60! I hope he lives as long as I do as I need him to keep me looking young!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on age recognition apps. I don't want to look this young! I am now looking between 18 and 21 whenever I add a photo to the app! I gained weight to 100 lbs as I took my eye off the ball and it is making me look even younger! I want to look 25 not 20! Fat grafting can make you look 14 if you overdo it as I saw a 40 yo korean lady in Korea who looked 14! But I am tired of being treated like a kid at my mature age. Sigh. It's not fun anymore. I want to look at least 25-28 now to be taken seriously at home and in public.


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## MissOrange

Ok I tried a different app to see if the ages were similar and used my oh as a control. It said 55 for him (with sunglasses on!), 25 for my daughter and still 20 for me! No wonder the postman asked me if my daughter was my sister and my korean teacher who is a year older says I look 20s. Thank goodness she is one year older and not younger else that would be too freaky. I need to think of how to age 5 years so the app reads me as 25! 52 to 18-20 is too extreme.

Even no makeup (see middle photo) doesn't help age me as I have a girl's voice and body (see last photo)!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on balloon face from fat grafting. Yesterday I had zanchi guksu noodles with msg at 11:15 am followed by an English scone with clotted cream and jam at 11:40. When I took a selfie at 11:25 my face looked small but when I took a selfie at 12:15 my face ballooned. Was it the msg or lactose intolerance to clotted cream or BOTH?! I showed the balloon face to a kakao friend from pf and she said I looked like a teen who had not lost baby fat. Hm so if you have fg from your tummy and lactose intolerance best to take an enzyme supplement with dairy as this may also cause fg to swell up as well as msg. Sigh. I am not putting that pic up as who wants to look like a chubby faced teen at 52!

Also imagine a strong, opinionated 52 yo ajumma in the face and body of a teen? Yep can't let me out in public as I am not a coy demure asian teen. lol. More like a rebellious teen. Sigh.

And saying I am a retired GP with my face is a problem. No wonder it confused my 53 yo korean language teacher when I said I was retired on the first day of class. I get it.

But I cannot have a 60 yo husband when I look like a teenager. 60 and 18 is too weird. Now I have to figure out how to look older so that 60 and 25 is more acceptable than 60 and teen wife. lol. No wonder the asps receptionist and the consultant looked at me strangely when I asked about a facelift.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on lower facelift. I have decided I need to tighten my jawline as I cannot keep an eye on my water intake, msg and lactose avoidance, daily weight checks etc  to keep the fg in check. I have researched and booked a consultation with Dr Amir Nakhjevani in the UK for £150 which goes towards the £6900 lower facelift under local. I even watched him operate in a bbc special on facelifts you can catch on youtube (see the tv screenshots of a 50 yo before and immediately after).

I think the culmination of 4 x full face fgs has stretched my skin so I can actually pinch an inch on each side. This then creates side rippling in the facial contour.

I see Amir on 30 August and then will book his concept lower FL which involves excising skin and pulling up and suturing the smas layer. I found reviews from patients over a year out so have done my due diligence. Fingers crossed.

In Korea smas FL is 13 million and the cheapest 6.5 million at mvp. But with flights and hotels the cheapest quote works out to be the same as having it done here so I am looking at a local UK ps. If I had it under GA it would cost £12-13k so to save £6k I shall bear local for 2-3 hours. My thinking is this FL applies the same principles as the bullhorn liplift under local which is still going strong at 19 months...excise skin and tighten muscle.

I shall keep you all posted. FG is perfect for the upper lids, temples but the lower face needs too meticulous attention to water intake, msg avoidance etc. weight checks to avoid deflation. I hope my very first smas FL will be it until age 60. I want a sharp v line contour with no jowls!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on how thigh fat graft cells fluctuate even in a day due to dehydration (fat cells shrink and lower face sags bottom left ), hydrate and the face looks normal and then eat msg and the fat cells swell and give you balloon or chubby teen face (bottom right). I just worked out that if you can pinch an inch of skin on the side of your face, then you are dehydrated and to drink a bottle of water asap. The lower face fat cells then expand back to normal. I was very unfortunate to be filmed yesterday while dehydrated (see photo of saggy dehydrated lower face)! This prompted me to research lower facelifts and book a consultation. However now the fat cells have re-expanded with 2 bottles of water in this heatwave and the face is back to normal. Sigh. Travelling in heat by tube and train to Kent in the early hours will leave me with a dehydrated face for my consultation and I bet I am booked for a lower FL. Either the result will be a smooth facial contour or windswept too tight after I hydrate up again? 2 PF friends tell me not to get FL. Sigh. I have 3 months to decide. £150 consultation fee has already been paid. If you do embark on a fat graft journey, don't panic if you see a saggy face. Rehydrate and if the fat expands no need for a top up. It is an enormous daily effort to maintain the fat graft and keep it looking normal and not shrunken or overexpanded and requires meticulous water intake, diet and weight monitoring.


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## albertis

Miss Orange ...you are paid from a korean clinic.----Your photos are not real !!!! you are a shame and a scam. I went to Korea and all my fat graft is gone in only 4 weeks in the ciinic you suggest. You scam  all guys here and should stop posting here, EVERY TIME YOU POST you scam Westerners about Korea fantasy plastic surgery. You don´t have any loner longer that face with that joung volume anymore-- FAT gaft just last 2 weeks !!!!!---- You should be sued everywhere.  Shame on you  -- You fake  Miss Orange working for korean abusive plastic surgery clinics. You should go to JAIL !!!


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## MissOrange

@albertis I only recommended Dr Seo at MVP for fg based on my personal experience. I did not recommend Dr Choi as a friend's fg lasted 1 month with him or Dr Lim or Dr Hyun as I know nothing about their results. I did not recommend DA clinic which distorted my face postop. I also recommended losing 2 lbs before the procedure to then regain 2 lbs after to look normal. This worked for me. If you lose weight after the procedure the fg shrinks. I have noticed too that both dehydration and alcohol cause the cells to shrink.

I post lots of photos of my journey to show what has and has not worked for me. It was my 4th full face fg so this may have helped too as fat grafts need top up and do not last with just one time fg.

I am a retired GP and do not work for any ps clinic here or in Korea. I have notified the mods of your defamatory comments and will click ignore.


----------



## MissOrange

Here are plenty more selfies of hydrated fg to show my 6 month results. I have a distinctive mole by the inner medial side of my right eye. Compare them with my old ugly photos I have shared in earlier posts. For me fg did turn back time for me but needs daily maintenance. You can also watch my many tv news interviews on youtube to see I am a real uk doctor.

I have decided to just go to the prepaid consultation for lower FL for a sharper contour but go hydrated for an opinion. A good friend reminded me that the daily demands of fg to drink a lot of water especially in this heatwave and avoid salt will persist even after FL and the downside is a face that looks abnormal and too tight. I am at risk of ruining a good result again just like I did when I went to DA for fg a few days after my mvp op in July 2016.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Well, speaking of Mascaro. I just saw photos of a patient who took photos 1 day post op and she looks amazing. Hardly any bruising and minor swelling. Great stitching and she is so happy.


Yes I agree @SheOnlyLooks25. I think Mascaro and Mills both do great lip lifts. I can't comment on the longevity of Mascaro's LL but can on Mills based on my personal experience. A friend has booked her lip lift with Mascaro this month! Excited for her. Lip lift is an amazing procedure with immediate and long-lasting results in the right hands and the plus side is no more need for restylane fillers.


----------



## PinkCats-PurplePeonies

Hi @MissOrange i've read your thread before, revisiting it every so often. I often browsed but hadn't commented until now. I was impressed with your looks for your age. I hope to look as good as you when I reach the same age. Last time I read was around January this year. I had been reading from the part you were talking about noses, rhinoplasty and the ideal angle for a woman's nose i.e feminine. Also a bit about fat grafting but that seems to feature prominently throughout your thread.
You see, i'm unhappy in my own looks and feel umcomfortable with how I currently look mainly because my face has changed compared to how it was even 4 - 5 years ago. My looks seem to have changed quite a lot even in the last year. It saddens me because I looked much more pretty, feminine before. I had a lot of intense stress and general unhappiness over the course of few years  because of studies and it seems to have ruined me.
You have so much experience and know what you're talking about, I also like your look. I'd like to learn from you.
Currently i'm looking to get *rhinoplasty*, *chin reduction*, *jaw shave* and *FG.*
I understand that FG requires at least 4 rounds to have a somewhat permanent lasting effect. And it's cheaper than *Facelift* - I have been considering FL instead of FG because I thought it would give more permanent result up to 10 years but it's also more expensive and would need FL every 5-10 years afterwards to maintain it? I'd also be intetested in the lower FL as you're talking abput right now - i think my face fat has sagged somewhat, creating the inverted triangle of youth. 
I am 27 years old Caucasian and looking for an excellent surgeon experienced in rhinoplasty and facial contour. Someone who can do aesthetic noses but also functional. I'm trying to get rhino, FC and FG done in one surgery. I can't think of a better woman to ask about this stuff than yourself, you really know it well.
Any recommendations for surgeons and guidance?
Thanks MissOrange!


----------



## MissOrange

PinkCats-PurplePeonies said:


> Hi @MissOrange i've read your thread before, revisiting it every so often. I often browsed but hadn't commented until now. I was impressed with your looks for your age. I hope to look as good as you when I reach the same age. Last time I read was around January this year. I had been reading from the part you were talking about noses, rhinoplasty and the ideal angle for a woman's nose i.e feminine. Also a bit about fat grafting but that seems to feature prominently throughout your thread.
> You see, i'm unhappy in my own looks and feel umcomfortable with how I currently look mainly because my face has changed compared to how it was even 4 - 5 years ago. My looks seem to have changed quite a lot even in the last year. It saddens me because I looked much more pretty, feminine before. I had a lot of intense stress and general unhappiness over the course of few years  because of studies and it seems to have ruined me.
> You have so much experience and know what you're talking about, I also like your look. I'd like to learn from you.
> Currently i'm looking to get *rhinoplasty*, *chin reduction*, *jaw shave* and *FG.*
> I understand that FG requires at least 4 rounds to have a somewhat permanent lasting effect. And it's cheaper than *Facelift* - I have been considering FL instead of FG because I thought it would give more permanent result up to 10 years but it's also more expensive and would need FL every 5-10 years afterwards to maintain it? I'd also be intetested in the lower FL as you're talking abput right now - i think my face fat has sagged somewhat, creating the inverted triangle of youth.
> I am 27 years old Caucasian and looking for an excellent surgeon experienced in rhinoplasty and facial contour. Someone who can do aesthetic noses but also functional. I'm trying to get rhino, FC and FG done in one surgery. I can't think of a better woman to ask about this stuff than yourself, you really know it well.
> Any recommendations for surgeons and guidance?
> Thanks MissOrange!


Hi @PinkCats-PurplePeonies,

Thank you for reading my thread of my ps journey. I am sorry to hear you have been stressed and unhappy. Yes stress can age one. I was stressed working long hours, revising for exams and raising 3 children under 5 and looked 50 at age 33. If you would like to pm me your photo I can give my thoughts.

To have FC, fg and rhino in one op, it is best to research clinics that do this. Also where are you located? If in Asia then Asia is closest. If in USA then Asia is very far away so you would need to do thorough research and be prepared to fly to Asia up to 4 times if you start on a fg journey. I suggest you research this forum as well as RS and Soyoung to make your shortlist and then decide after consultations. Research means find patients to chat with or meet like checking out tripadvisor for hotels, ie reading reviews with photos helps immensely.  The clinics discussed a lot on this forum seem to be opera, view, regen and so on but only you can make an informed decision.

I have not had fc just chin shaving but came close to booking regen for zygoma reduction and may still do it when I have the courage.

I will decide about lower FL at my consultation. Some days I feel my face is fine and other days I want a tighter face but then slightly loose looks younger. If FL costs £12k in the UK, $20k in USA or 13 million won in Korea, then it is out of the question for me and my budget, but Amir charges £6900 under local which sounds so tempting and I want to look like Han Ye Seul! I know I need a miracle to get her small CD sized face, which would mean zygoma reduction and genioplasty, ie put back the chin I shaved! At the moment it seems lower FL under local may be within my budget.


----------



## chpwhy

@MissOrange, i'm interested to know what's your opinion on filler for upper eye lids?


----------



## MissOrange

chpwhy said:


> @MissOrange, i'm interested to know what's your opinion on filler for upper eye lids?


Hi @chpwhy,

I saw an instagram video of filler being injected in the upper lids and enquired and the cost was £400 but fillers need to be redone every 6 months and the area is so dangerous that it needs a very skilled doctor. I prefer a more permanent solution which is why I chose fg which has finally become permanent in my upper lids. The only downside is it has expanded the area between my brows and eyes so I draw my brow pencil below the brow to lower it.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on my research on lower FL. I have read all the reviews on the ps on rs and found his BBC video showing him performing lower FL at minute 38. His price back in 2016 was £5500 so has gone up to £6900 in 2 years. Still affordable vs FL under GA.


Here are 2 b+a photos that also look good and you can also watch patient video reviews on instagram. As photos may be photoshopped the best photos are patient selfies and videos. His rating is 4.9/5 on rs. Past patients post that he even offers free touch up at a year if it sags. According to the reviews 2 patients have noted the neck sagging at a year but as I am only looking for lower FL and not neck, this is still ok for me. So he even gets praises from his patients for follow up! I based my decision on Mills for LL after 3 positive reviews with before and after and this ps has over 50 positive reviews on his concept FL!

Remember the more you do your research the less the risk of a botch. Lesson of the day. And if you can bear local, £6900 prices FL as less than asps! And no I haven't even had my consultation so definitely no link to Amir. I am just sharing my thought processes researching lower FL so you can see how to do research if you want both a great result for the best price.


----------



## 1/4 white

MissOrange said:


> Here are plenty more selfies of hydrated fg to show my 6 month results. I have a distinctive mole by the inner medial side of my right eye. Compare them with my old ugly photos I have shared in earlier posts. For me fg did turn back time for me but needs daily maintenance. You can also watch my many tv news interviews on youtube to see I am a real uk doctor.
> 
> I have decided to just go to the prepaid consultation for lower FL for a sharper contour but go hydrated for an opinion. A good friend reminded me that the daily demands of fg to drink a lot of water especially in this heatwave and avoid salt will persist even after FL and the downside is a face that looks abnormal and too tight. I am at risk of ruining a good result again just like I did when I went to DA for fg a few days after my mvp op in July 2016.


Hi MissOrange,

I wanted to ask you about forehead fat graft, I had mine done on the 1st of August, everything is going well but I’m having some

Tingly  feeling on my forehead 
Heavy ness on forehead 
Some kind of twitching when I’m under the sun.

Did you notice these when you had your first fat graft on the forehead?

Please reply and tell me anything you can remember when you had forehead fat graft the first time.

Thanks


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @1/4 white,

Sorry to hear you are experiencing problems. Yes after my first fg I felt a heaviness on my forehead from all the fat that was overfilled and a slight headache from the tightness but no tingling or twitching which sounds more like nerve or muscle, respectively. Perhaps contact your ps and ask for advice. Hopefully the symptoms will abate.


----------



## 1/4 white

Thanks for the reply hun, I’m not having the tingling anymore just a feeling like the fat is moving lol, I guess it’s jusr the heavy ness.

I told Dr OH about it, he said it’s cos my forehead is healing from the trauma that is why I’m having those sensations.

Anyways I will see how things goes, I’m 2 weeks post op today,the swelling has finally gone down a lot, although I’m still swollen but not really noticeable, and my eyelid crease that use to be double is now single hahahaha, I gues it’s swelling still.

At the moment I love the look of my forehead hopefully I won’t get any lump that will be noticeable that’s what worry me the most.

I don’t know if I will have a retouch like planned, I might go with HA fillers with prp if all the fat disappears, I just don’t like the way I’m feeling in my forehead, it’s weird, but looks good.


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on my research on lower FL. I have read all the reviews on the ps on rs and found his BBC video showing him performing lower FL at minute 38. His price back in 2016 was £5500 so has gone up to £6900 in 2 years. Still affordable vs FL under GA.
> 
> 
> Here are 2 b+a photos that also look good and you can also watch patient video reviews on instagram. As photos may be photoshopped the best photos are patient selfies and videos. His rating is 4.9/5 on rs. Past patients post that he even offers free touch up at a year if it sags. According to the reviews 2 patients have noted the neck sagging at a year but as I am only looking for lower FL and not neck, this is still ok for me. So he even gets praises from his patients for follow up! I based my decision on Mills for LL after 3 positive reviews with before and after and this ps has over 50 positive reviews on his concept FL!
> 
> Remember the more you do your research the less the risk of a botch. Lesson of the day. And if you can bear local, £6900 prices FL as less than asps! And no I haven't even had my consultation so definitely no link to Amir. I am just sharing my thought processes researching lower FL so you can see how to do research if you want both a great result for the best price.




I can't believe she didn't have to go under GA for that FL!    They didn't even let me have laparoscopy without going under GA!


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> I can't believe she didn't have to go under GA for that FL!    They didn't even let me have laparoscopy without going under GA!


I know right @arnott. But having undergone bullhorn lip lift and hair transplant with a strip of scalp excised from my occiput and 100s of scalpel nicks on my forehead for the transplanted hair follicles under local, I think I can bear this procedure too although the more I think about it, the more anxious I become. I don't think it is for everyone but as he is a lot cheaper than Dominic Bray who also does FLs under local but for over £10k, I chose Amir for both excellent patient reviews and affordable pricing. He even offers 0% interest loans to cover the costs too which is a nice touch to allow all older women a chance to regain their looks.


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> I know right @arnott. But having undergone bullhorn lip lift and hair transplant with a strip of scalp excised from my occiput and 100s of scalpel nicks on my forehead for the transplanted hair follicles under local, I think I can bear this procedure too although the more I think about it, the more anxious I become. I don't think it is for everyone but as he is a lot cheaper than Dominic Bray who also does FLs under local but for over £10k, I chose Amir for both excellent patient reviews and affordable pricing. He even offers 0% interest loans to cover the costs too which is a nice touch to allow all older women a chance to regain their looks.



I thought that was freaky to watch with her talking animatedly with her face cut wide open, him digging around inside and smoke coming out so she could smell her burning flesh!      And he didn't even put anything to cover her face so  she could probably see what was going on in her peripheral vision!


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> I thought that was freaky to watch with her talking animatedly with her face cut wide open, him digging around inside and smoke coming out so she could smell her burning flesh!      And he didn't even put anything to cover her face so  she could probably see what was going on in her peripheral vision!


If I do get this done, I am going to keep my eyes closed tightly and keep very still like I was under GA. I most certainly do not want to be chatting away with my skin dissected off my face or want to see the cautery buzzing away. Way too surreal.


----------



## DC-Cutie

this is a rather interesting thread...


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> If I do get this done, I am going to keep my eyes closed tightly and keep very still like I was under GA. I most certainly do not want to be chatting away with my skin dissected off my face or want to see the cautery buzzing away. Way too surreal.



But if you keep quiet you'll have nothing to distract yourself from those scary sounds.    Is it the norm to have face lifts under General or Local anesthesia?


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> But if you keep quiet you'll have nothing to distract yourself from those scary sounds.    Is it the norm to have face lifts under General or Local anesthesia?


The norm in the UK is to have it under GA but the costs of even a day case in a private hospital, costs of surgeon and anaesthetist, have skyrocketed in this recession. The latest I heard was FL costing £18k and for fl and necklift £22k. 

He and Bray seem to be the only doctors performing this under local. I winced in pain during my lip lift as the last closure sutures did not have anaesthetic, ie the corner was not numbed. The worst pain was the local injections and those last stitches. I am hoping for FL I get adequate local that lasts. I will definitely speak up if it wears off. I hate pain like everyone else.

The hair transplant procedure took 10 hours in a dentist's chair. I felt no pain as I was also given valium and strong painkillers. Maybe for fl I can take a strong painkiller beforehand too?

I am jumping the gun. I have to wait for my consultation first to see if he even agrees to a minor lower FL.


----------



## MissOrange

Thank you for reading my thread and humouring a 52 year old lady with the soul of a 19 year old! Growing up I adored Vivien Leigh and without the internet or local koreans to base beauty on, I based my perception on Western beauty. Here is a fun collage I put together to see if I look a little like Vivien Leigh. I am stuck between wanting to look more like Han Ye Seul vs Vivien Leigh. The upturned small Barbie rib nose that Ion gave me keeps me looking young and the bullhorn liplift that Mills gave me, ensures the ratio of length of philtrum to length of chin is 1:2. Vivien Leigh had a U shaped chin vs Han Ye Seul has a v line chin. At the moment I have a U shaped chin but if I get a lower FL then I shall have a v shaped chin. I need to decide which look I want to keep or I shall be forever trading between western vs asian beauty!


----------



## MissOrange

I am trying to lose weight. I think at 99.5 lbs my lower face had jowls but at 98.8 lbs it is improving. If I can get back to 98 lbs my weight in India then I may not need a lower FL. This is like the issue with my batwings. Even a lb or 2 can create batwings like lower face jowls.

Today I think I don't need anything. I restarted probiotics but instead of a sugary yoghurt am taking a once a day probiotic pill. I have noticed my bowels have been sensitive to fat, ie it comes out rapidly so in a way the probiotic is making it easier to reach 98 lbs.


----------



## ElijahSpk

Oh god, your skin is serious skin goals [emoji7]. Please tell me some of your secrets behind your flawless translucent skin [emoji847]


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpk said:


> Oh god, your skin is serious skin goals [emoji7]. Please tell me some of your secrets behind your flawless translucent skin [emoji847]


Hi @ElijahSpk,

The secret is drinking only Evian water. As a teen I had bad acne all over my forehead as I drank only sugary drinks and never water! Now I also moisturise every day with olay, wear sunscreen and use Shiseido i 40 foundation which makes my skin look flawless in indoor lighting as it works with my asian yellow pigment.

At 52 I have to worry about strokes as I have inherited high lipoprotein A so have to have regular scans of my carotid arteries and then one day carotid endarterectomy surgery before I get a stroke. Sigh. So now I watch what I eat and drink and try to take vitamins too. That is how I learned too much processed foods and sugar may cause cancer.


----------



## MissOrange

People are messaging me where I had my surgeries. If you log on to this site from an ipad or computer, under each of my posts it shows the names of each of my plastic surgeons and what they did for me.

Twenty years ago it was Cindy Jackson who discovered how to look natural and younger with plastic surgery. I bought her book and paid £200 to meet with her to find out what I needed and who did her surgeries. She said change my hairstyle, change my glasses and get a mid-lower facelift. I was in my 30s! Instead I had dermal fillers which is like a liquid facelift and still wonder when am I getting a lower FL as I am now in my 50s and Cindy has already had a FL and looks 20s in her 60s.

I am sharing my journey and surgeons here for free! Just use an ipad or computer as their mobile site does not show my footnote message giving credit to all my plastic surgeons ovet 900 times!


----------



## Brigitte Evans

Woow, you look great! I am pro plastic surgery, for sure. I had a rhinoplasty in my 20s and I am really happy with it.
Anyway, which contact lenses do you use? 
I have recently transitioned on contact lenses too, I am really happy with these ones https://www.eyeconcepts.com.au/ Are your colored ones?


----------



## MissOrange

Brigitte Evans said:


> Woow, you look great! I am pro plastic surgery, for sure. I had a rhinoplasty in my 20s and I am really happy with it.
> Anyway, which contact lenses do you use?
> I have recently transitioned on contact lenses too, I am really happy with these ones https://www.eyeconcepts.com.au/ Are your colored ones?


Hi @Brigitte Evans
I wear freshlooks colorblends brilliant blue.

An update on bullhorn lip lift. I just saw photos of my friend's lip lift with Mascaro and it looks excellent. He showed her subtle vs dramatic and she chose dramatic which he gave her. For ladies in USA, look up Mascaro in Florida and for ladies in the UK look up Caroline Mills in London. Both do excellent bullhorn lip lifts.

I have my consultation with Amir on Thursday to discuss lower FL. I was 99.8 lbs when I was filmed with a saggy loose lower face and at 99.2 lbs and hydrated the jowls have improved but not at 100%. I am trying to get back down to 98 lbs to see if it tightens my lower face as my lower face seems to emulate my upper arms with its batwings at 99-100 lbs. Life with fg is very hard as it requires constant weight and fluid monitoring. Sigh.


----------



## ElijahSpk

MissOrange said:


> Hi @ElijahSpk,
> 
> The secret is drinking only Evian water. As a teen I had bad acne all over my forehead as I drank only sugary drinks and never water! Now I also moisturise every day with olay, wear sunscreen and use Shiseido i 40 foundation which makes my skin look flawless in indoor lighting as it works with my asian yellow pigment.
> 
> At 52 I have to worry about strokes as I have inherited high lipoprotein A so have to have regular scans of my carotid arteries and then one day carotid endarterectomy surgery before I get a stroke. Sigh. So now I watch what I eat and drink and try to take vitamins too. That is how I learned too much processed foods and sugar may cause cancer.


Hi @MissOrange, I'm hearing about this "Evian Water" for the very first time. Will search for it on the internet. May I know what variant of Olay moisturizer do you use? Also, don't you get any skin irritation because olay products mostly contain parabens, phenoxyethanol, and other chemically processed humectants?

And for your high lipoprotein A, I'd suggest you to take good quality fish oil supplement as it'll lower your overall triglycerides level and will also help you maintain normal lipid profile.


----------



## MissOrange

ElijahSpk said:


> Hi @MissOrange, I'm hearing about this "Evian Water" for the very first time. Will search for it on the internet. May I know what variant of Olay moisturizer do you use? Also, don't you get any skin irritation because olay products mostly contain parabens, phenoxyethanol, and other chemically processed humectants?
> 
> And for your high lipoprotein A, I'd suggest you to take good quality fish oil supplement as it'll lower your overall triglycerides level and will also help you maintain normal lipid profile.


Hi @ElijahSpk 

I use olay total effects 7 in 1 anti aging moisturizer but any moisturizer is good. Also it doesn't have to be evian water. Any bottled still water is fine to drink or filtered tap water.

Yes I take vitamin D and omega 3 fish oils but my lipoprotein A is genetic. I have a gene variant that may be classified as a mutation once all my family get tested. My last test showed a cholesterol of 7.5 and a lipoprotein A over 240. Over 125 puts one at risk for heart disease or strokes as it should be less than 75. 

I have to plan on getting a stroke at age 74-75 in the worst scenario but hoping regular carotid scans will detect a plaque before it blocks my artery. Sigh.


----------



## ElijahSpk

MissOrange said:


> Hi @ElijahSpk
> 
> I use olay total effects 7 in 1 anti aging moisturizer but any moisturizer is good. Also it doesn't have to be evian water. Any bottled still water is fine to drink or filtered tap water.
> 
> Yes I take vitamin D and omega 3 fish oils but my lipoprotein A is genetic. I have a gene variant that may be classified as a mutation once all my family get tested. My last test showed a cholesterol of 7.5 and a lipoprotein A over 240. Over 125 puts one at risk for heart disease or strokes as it should be less than 75.
> 
> I have to plan on getting a stroke at age 74-75 in the worst scenario but hoping regular carotid scans will detect a plaque before it blocks my artery. Sigh.


Hi @MissOrange, I hope that you always stay hale and hearty. In today's day and age, crossing 70 years of age is in itself is a big achievement. 

Wishing you good health and happiness


----------



## Asiapot

Hi MissOrange ,

I am new here and lucky enough to find your thread.  You are absolutely amazing!

I am a few years older than you and used to have a very young face and was consistently thought at least 10-15 years younger than my biological age despite my hectic life.  That was until about 6-7 years ago after I had went for 3 sessions of treatment called Smartxide DOT therapy in the US which destroyed my face.  I am in need of some fat transferred to my face now and found your thread.  I plan to go to SK early October.  Does MVP do consultation on Saturday or Sunday?  I have just downloaded Kakao.  How do I get in touch with Ellen?  I am a bit nervous as I have never been to Korea and don't know what to expect.

I am not brave enough to go under the knife.  Fat grafting is probably the most "invasive" procedure that I would ever have the courage to do.  I suppose local anaesthesia is all that is necessary for FG, right?

I am also worried that MVP would push me for other procedures.  All I want is to restore my lost fat and have my pre-DOT face only. 

Please PM me if you don't mind.  Thanks.

Wishing you the best.


----------



## MissOrange

Asiapot said:


> Hi MissOrange ,
> 
> I am new here and lucky enough to find your thread.  You are absolutely amazing!
> 
> I am a few years older than you and used to have a very young face and was consistently thought at least 10-15 years younger than my biological age despite my hectic life.  That was until about 6-7 years ago after I had went for 3 sessions of treatment called Smartxide DOT therapy in the US which destroyed my face.  I am in need of some fat transferred to my face now and found your thread.  I plan to go to SK early October.  Does MVP do consultation on Saturday or Sunday?  I have just downloaded Kakao.  How do I get in touch with Ellen?  I am a bit nervous as I have never been to Korea and don't know what to expect.
> 
> I am not brave enough to go under the knife.  Fat grafting is probably the most "invasive" procedure that I would ever have the courage to do.  I suppose local anaesthesia is all that is necessary for FG, right?
> 
> I am also worried that MVP would push me for other procedures.  All I want is to restore my lost fat and have my pre-DOT face only.
> 
> Please PM me if you don't mind.  Thanks.
> 
> Wishing you the best.


Will PM you now. Always love hearing from ladies close to my age! We are the invisible ladies over 50!


----------



## MissOrange

Will he? Won't he? I have no idea if Amir will accept me for lower FL at Thursday's consultation. Today I pigged out at a half board hotel on holiday and my fg has filled out my lower face.


----------



## MOTTY26

MissOrange said:


> Will he? Won't he? I have no idea if Amir will accept me for lower FL at Thursday's consultation. Today I pigged out at a half board hotel on holiday and my fg has filled out my lower face.



I dont think u need FL Ms. O,  but I understand where u coming from, it seems like FG is unstable... maybe u can keep up that weight first and see from there.    I still hope u can go to the consultation so that u can explore your options and maybe u can share with us your experience/knowledge.

And what a body, whew!  I cant think of any 50yo women (whom I personally know) who were able to maintain their overall look.    I assume your husband is same age as you,  he must be really proud!


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> I dont think u need FL Ms. O,  but I understand where u coming from, it seems like FG is unstable... maybe u can keep up that weight first and see from there.    I still hope u can go to the consultation so that u can explore your options and maybe u can share with us your experience/knowledge.
> 
> And what a body, whew!  I cant think of any 50yo women (whom I personally know) who were able to maintain their overall look.    I assume your husband is same age as you,  he must be really proud!


Thanks @MOTTY26. Yes I shall share my experience of the consultation and absolutely will go as I have prepaid the £150 consultation fee and bought my train tickets. With free consultations in korea one can book several to compare but here in the uk it is £150-£250 per consultation so one often has to do one's research first and then pick the surgeon before meeting them.

I have been researching youtube, instagram, realself and his website. Ideally I need to chat with past patients too. I also like this result for when I need a lift in another area!

And you have diagnosed fg perfectly. Yes it is totally unstable. I remember hating my thunder thighs as a teen and now with this thigh fat in my face, it is like the fat in my cheeks and lower face is a separate organ that bloats up with msg salt, deflates with dehydration, balloons then sags if overfed or starved and all I want is consistency. I share photos from good days but freak out on bad days. Sigh. I need to work out the precise weight this face fat is happy at but getting down to 98 again which was my weight in India is like the holy grail.


----------



## arnott

^  Can you get a breast lift without implants?


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> ^  Can you get a breast lift without implants?


I suppose that is possible if happy reducing one's cup size. As the surgeon removed almost all of my breast tissue when the banned trilucent soya implant ruptured and herniated up to my clavicle from my chest, I would be an A cup without help. Sigh. Would be wonderful to be implant free.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Will he? Won't he? I have no idea if Amir will accept me for lower FL at Thursday's consultation. Today I pigged out at a half board hotel on holiday and my fg has filled out my lower face.



Hey Miss O, that beach in Portugal looks better than where I am sunbathing right now!  

And don't feel too much regret for choosing Amir over Dr Oh, as you will see here....



Sandblossom25 said:


> I have to re-post this on my main account because the last thread was removed. Sigh.
> _
> I'm writing this post with a heavy heart- I honestly have nobody at home to talk to about these issues._
> 
> _I've actually been a member of this forum for a while now - but I decided to make a new account to tell this story. Why? Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed and traumatized by the entire situation._
> 
> _A while back I received v-line surgery from Doctor Oh. My consultation was maybe 10 minutes at the most - surgery happened immediately after._
> 
> *This was definitely my mistake.*_ Any doctor that decides he's learned enough about a patient after 10 minutes is clearly not performing surgery to make people happy. You can't learn ANYTHING from observing somebody's face for 10 minutes._
> 
> _I just wanted a mini v-line (chin correction). I told him this during consultation. I didn't need a mandible reduction. He recommended a full v-line saying that I'd look "weird" without it._* I listened. I only listened because I thought he'd know best.*
> 
> _-I allowed him to convince me to do a mandible angle reduction - something I didn't need. I had a naturally slender/gently curved face.
> - He also slid my chin forward a few mm. Something else I didn't need as my chin was chunky and poked out of my face weirdly to begin with.
> -And why was the height of my chin reduced? My nose to chin-tip ratio was perfect. Now I have a short lower-face._
> 
> _Thinking back, he pretty much did the exact opposite of everything I needed done. I shouldn't have touched my jawline. I should've had my chin pushed back or given a width reduction. This would have given me a v-shape easily. But... He literally did the opposite._
> 
> _And boy, does it show._
> 
> _My chin is not a delicate point at all - It is way larger. My jawline is clearly over-resected. The angle from my ear to my chin is a a weird and unnatural slope - My lower face is short and odd looking. I mean- He literally cut right to the bottom of my teeth. I'm not even considering the exposed salvitory glands, TMJ symptoms, and intense numbness I've been feeling in my mouth months after surgery. And did I mention that my jaw angle cuts don't match? There's a piece under my right ear thats missing (but is still in place on my left.)_
> 
> _I've approached Regen several times for help - inquiring about jaw implants and a possible reverse-genioplasty or sub mental approach to reduce the chin to the v shape I wanted. They won't tell me whether or not it's possible. They want me to wait 6 months but we all know that an over-resected jaw doesn't come back in 6 months. Genioplasty doesn't reverse itself in 6 months. And yes- Swelling is down enough to show me a a general idea of the final result. It's been well over 3 months now._
> 
> _Obviously, I'm intensely depressed. My only hope at this point is attempting jaw angle implants elsewhere, but even the US surgeons (like Doctor Eppley) have lawsuits pending against them._
> 
> _There honestly needs to be more done to protect patients. We are not cattle._
> 
> _I can't believe what has happened. Was it just poor planning? The fact that they wanted a bit more money out of me? Did Doctor Oh even perform my surgery?
> 
> *I've uploaded pictures of what my chin currently looks like. I also have a before/after of my side profile. (I'm in my hospital gown in the before. The after has my exposed salivary glands circled.) There is also a picture of the chin I wanted (typical of v-line surgery) compared to the chin I received. Black circle indicates a soft/round chin, red circle indicates the square chin I currently have.*_
> 
> I should mention that in due time, after I've revised this work with another hosptial, that I plan on talking about this more in depth and providing pictures/video on Youtube. It'll take some time as I am not mentally ready to talk about what happened with strangers- But I'm passionate about filmmaking and I think I want to eventually speak on this publicly as a warning to other potential patients coming to Korea.
> 
> Update - Since I've come forward about my experience at Regen, I've had two other people come forward about blatantly botched jobs there.
> 
> I've also contacted Regen again, pushing for a solution since I'm incredibly satisfied with the work they've done. I'm still being told to fix my issues with botox, but that simply won't do if the bone work (the foundation of my face) was done so poorly.
> 
> At this point, I'm still on the hunt for a maxillofacial doctor skilled in custom verticle lengthening implants to restore my jawline. They would also need to be capable of reversing the 4mm projection Regen gave me and contouring the chin to the shape I initially wanted (soft and round rather than square/flat/blunt on the bottom.)


----------



## chpwhy

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @MOTTY26. Yes I shall share my experience of the consultation and absolutely will go as I have prepaid the £150 consultation fee and bought my train tickets. With free consultations in korea one can book several to compare but here in the uk it is £150-£250 per consultation so one often has to do one's research first and then pick the surgeon before meeting them.



Did the ultherapy not work for you, @MissOrange ?


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> I suppose that is possible if happy reducing one's cup size. As the surgeon removed almost all of my breast tissue when the banned trilucent soya implant ruptured and herniated up to my clavicle from my chest, I would be an A cup without help. Sigh. *Would be wonderful to be implant free.*



You don't like having implants?


----------



## MissOrange

chpwhy said:


> Did the ultherapy not work for you, @MissOrange ?


Hi @chpwhy I think ultherapy is a temporary procedure like threadlift. I keep pulling up my skin in front of my ears to see what a lower FL would look like and like what I see. I need to ask Amir if he just sutures the smas layer ie like a threadlift which can last as little as 6 months or if he excises, trims and sutures the smas layer which is the traditional smas procedure and more permanent. I would be gutted to pay £6900 for a procedure that only lasted 6 months. Already have a pf friend say one of her threads have come loose as one side of her face has dropped in less than 6 months bur this was done by another surgeon.


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> You don't like having implants?


Hi @arnott, I have had 3 banned EU approved implants (trilucent, hydrogel, PIP) that have all failed (leaked or ruptured) and cost me time, money, grief and extra surgeries to fix. All 3 failed US fda inspection but this was not told me by my surgeon. I just trusted the surgeon when I said no silicone please and he picked these non silicone implants. Why I was never offered saline implants almost 20 years ago I do not know. Not like having implants is an understatement. I am on my only us fda approved ones...allergan silicone teardrops. Lesson learned the hard way...check that the surgeon is inserting us fda approved ones only! Ideally no implant but with all the complications I literally have implants and skin left so little breast tissue for no implants. Sigh. I fell for all the media and advertising hype on the 3 banned implants which were not banned when they were inserted in me but banned after for causing cancer in rats, high rate of leakage and rupture and lastly pip was banned for filled with toxic industrial mattress fillers. I dread to think of the consequences if this silicon implant leaks or ruptures as I have read all the horror stories of lymphatics carrying silicon throughout the body.

Logically it would seem long-standing saline implants may be the safest. Saline implants have been around for decades and used in tissue expansion and if it leaks it is just saline water. Hmm. Maybe I should try this in my 60s. These allergan ones were put in in 2012 and implants last 10 years not 20 as told by surgeons so I  am looking at 2022.


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Hey Miss O, that beach in Portugal looks better than where I am sunbathing right now!
> 
> And don't feel too much regret for choosing Amir over Dr Oh, as you will see here....


Hi @missy_sana

I am already bored of this beach holiday. I think 35C drains the life out of a Brit. Not used to a chronic heatwave. lol.

Amir's office has sent an appointment reminder. Each day I keep tugging at my skin and asking do I need a lower FL and the answer each day is yes but the image of being awake with my skin off my face makes me anxious so then I look at his before and after photos to reassure myself.

Yes just read that new review on Dr Oh's v line. That means Dr Oh is good for zygoma but do more research for v lines. I don't need v line. I shaved my chin and now have a short chin and I bet I get told I need a chin implant lol. That's the problem with surgery. Chin shaving improved the side profile immensely but at a small cost to the front view. Japanese beauty is short chins so all is not lost. .

TLPS gave a girl a beautiful v line but at the cost of nerve numbness on one side of her chin and skin sagging in another. That means even v line has its downsides and may need a lower FL after.

I worry that releasing the skin from the soft tissues and pulling up in lower fl may loosen the skin permanently so that it may stretch more over time and require another lower FL. Why else do we hear of ladies on their 3rd or 4th facelifts and still young?

I am hoping Amir is an honest and erhicae surgeon who will give me his honest opinion on whether lower FL can improve my contour. 2 days to go to the consultation.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Hi @chpwhy I think ultherapy is a temporary procedure like threadlift. I keep pulling up my skin in front of my ears to see what a lower FL would look like and like what I see. I need to ask Amir if he just sutures the smas layer ie like a threadlift which can last as little as 6 months or if he excises, trims and sutures the smas layer which is the traditional smas procedure and more permanent. I would be gutted to pay £6900 for a procedure that only lasted 6 months. Already have a pf friend say one of her threads have come loose as one side of her face has dropped in less than 6 months bur this was done by another surgeon.


Yes threadlifts are quite useless! At least for me! I had mine done at JW, paid a fortune for it, swelled like a pumpkin, only for it to make absolutely no difference to my appearance!


----------



## MissOrange

@heartbeep that is why I refuse to try threadlift! Loose skin and excess saggy smas layer needs to be trimmed and excised. Remember my triple wrinkled eyelids that I could pull out an inch! The excess lid skin got excised for good. 2.5 years later and no lid wrinkles!

I am now trying to logically work out the benefit of a lower FL to excise excess loose skin. I have taken 4 selfies leaning forward at 120 degrees (the worst for sagging), at 90 degrees, at 45 degrees and finally at 30 degrees which looks super and I hope FL can keep me looking like at 30 degrees when at 90 or 120 degrees. Friends say I don't need a lower FL but I say I do and the photos clearly show a difference. If Amir excises an inch of skin on each side and trims and tightens the smas layer I should look like the last photo without having to lie back. I think my lower face is hiding a natural v line.

I could also try clear gorilla duct tape to lift my lower face and see what that looks like upright. Can try when I get home. I discovered that some Chinese girls use clear duct tape for a sharp v line in selfies!

The other option is to drink 35 mls/kg/day to inflate the fg cells in the lower face which lifts and prevents sagging. In a heatwave it means doubling the fluid intake and I am way behind and dehydrated. I have added a photo when fully hydrated which then inflates and lifts the bottom face. Sigh so difficult to maintain.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> @heartbeep that is why I refuse to try threadlift! Loose skin and excess saggy smas layer needs to be trimmed and excised. Remember my triple wrinkled eyelids that I could pull out an inch! The excess lid skin got excised for good. 2.5 years later and no lid wrinkles!
> 
> I am now trying to logically work out the benefit of a lower FL to excise excess loose skin. I have taken 4 selfies leaning forward at 120 degrees (the worst for sagging), at 90 degrees, at 45 degrees and finally at 30 degrees which looks super and I hope FL can keep me looking like at 30 degrees when at 90 or 120 degrees. Friends say I don't need a lower FL but I say I do and the photos clearly show a difference. If Amir excises an inch of skin on each side and trims and tightens the smas layer I should look like the last photo without having to lie back. I think my lower face is hiding a natural v line.
> 
> I could also try clear gorilla duct tape to lift my lower face and see what that looks like upright. Can try when I get home. I discovered that some Chinese girls use clear duct tape for a sharp v line in selfies!
> 
> The other option is to drink 35 mls/kg/day to inflate the fg cells in the lower face which lifts and prevents sagging. In a heatwave it means doubling the fluid intake and I am way behind and dehydrated. I have added a photo when fully hydrated which then inflates and lifts the bottom face. Sigh so difficult to maintain.


Your fat graft is holding up really well! I’m curious though, why your graft responds to internal hydration, whereas mine only responds to external hydration in the form of a super emollient moisturiser. When I idea lousy cream, I look gaunt and gross, but a good cream plumps me back up.

Do let us know if the gorilla tape works! I’ve tried using scotch tape lol, to no avail.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Your fat graft is holding up really well! I’m curious though, why your graft responds to internal hydration, whereas mine only responds to external hydration in the form of a super emollient moisturiser. When I idea lousy cream, I look gaunt and gross, but a good cream plumps me back up.
> 
> Do let us know if the gorilla tape works! I’ve tried using scotch tape lol, to no avail.


Hi @heartbeep,
I was reading rs and found not 1 but 3 negative reviews on Amir's FL! Oh my goodness! Only 1 happy patient showed a 1 year postop pic but 3 wrote negative saying it did not even last a year?!

So super anxious me just drank 750 mls of water in one go...gulped it straight down to plump up my lower face and it helped. I shall keep my appointment but now am too scared. I think I may wait until 60 and try my first ps Jan Stanek but he will be 78 then!!!! Oh no what do I do? I saw his 60 yo nurse 6 months out. Such a beautiful lower FL and no scar ( inside the ear) but double price!?

You must be drinking enough water but maybe not moisturising enough. I moisturise every day but don't drink enough. lol.

Cardinal rule of research. Find the negative reviews and contact past patients post 1 year for photos. Research, research, research. Only a fool is easily parted with his or her money. It breaks my heart to read of the psychological distress of unhappy patients but their brave honesty helps others make an informed decision.

Not one of my friends said I needed a lower FL and one told me to see a counsellor. lol. Saved by finding negative reviews! Doing 3 lower fls in one day is too much in my opinion.


----------



## MissOrange

Okay after 750 mls of water I absolutely do not need a lower FL The fg in my lower face has reinflated and the contours look fine! Slight marionettes but I can live with that. Here are my instant selfies without makeup and some with a little. Just saved myself £6900. Water is a fg's best friend. I need to drink 1.5 L a day and more in hot weather or else I shall see a saggy, sunken and irregular lower contour. Maybe put a post it on my phone? Maybe the ulthera did work but I need to only take selfies after 1.5L a day! I just realized I normally drink 2 mini Evian waters a day which is only 660 mls when I need to be drinking 1500 mls and more in hot weather!


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> I suppose that is possible if happy reducing one's cup size. *As the surgeon removed almost all of my breast tissue *when the banned trilucent soya implant ruptured and herniated up to my clavicle from my chest, I would be an A cup without help. Sigh. *Would be wonderful to be implant free.*



So if you could go back 20 years would you have never gotten implants and left your breasts alone?    Since you lost most of your breast tissue is that like when you have a mastectomy and no longer have to worry about breast cancer   (like what Angelina Jolie did)?


----------



## gazoo

MissOrange said:


> Okay after 750 mls of water I absolutely do not need a lower FL The fg in my lower face has reinflated and the contours look fine! Slight marionettes but I can live with that. Here are my instant selfies without makeup and some with a little. Just saved myself £6900. Water is a fg's best friend. I need to drink 1.5 L a day and more in hot weather or else I shall see a saggy, sunken and irregular lower contour. Maybe put a post it on my phone? Maybe the ulthera did work but I need to only take selfies after 1.5L a day! I just realized I normally drink 2 mini Evian waters a day which is only 660 mls when I need to be drinking 1500 mls and more in hot weather!



Seeing this, you're perfect. No need for FL! Save your money for later on. And keep drinking water! I drink 3 liters a day. Living in a hot climate, anything less and I get dehydration headaches.


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> Seeing this, you're perfect. No need for FL! Save your money for later on. And keep drinking water! I drink 3 liters a day. Living in a hot climate, anything less and I get dehydration headaches.


Thank you @gazoo! I appreciate your opinion and have concluded not one person has said I need a lower FL so I have reached 10 no's. 3 litres! Wow after I managed my first day of drinking 1.5 litres I was going to the toilet every hour and woke up in the night too! lol. My bladder needs to be retrained for this higher water consumption but loving the water results on my face.

Now I have to decide whether I dna tomorrow's consultation or just go for a chat. I am worried when they said make an hour for time with the patient rep. Why would I need to speak to a rep after the consultation with the surgeon? Usually you are either told the price by the surgeon at consultation or emailed a quote. Never spoken with a patient rep before. My husband says don't go as he is worried I will fall for a sales pitch. I laughed remembering how mad I waa when gng's rep said 18 million won ie $18k to fix my nose. As a penny pincher that sent me away asap.

Maybe I should drink a litre of water on the morning train to kent tomorrow so that he says no you don't need? I can't get a refund of the £150 so I suppose I should go. I was strong enough to say no to a gng rev rhino and a regen zygoma reduction so I think I can be strong against any hard sell. Never been to Tunbridge Wells in Kent. Could see it as a day excursion.


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> So if you could go back 20 years would you have never gotten implants and left your breasts alone?    Since you lost most of your breast tissue is that like when you have a mastectomy and no longer have to worry about breast cancer   (like what Angelina Jolie did)?


Going back 20 years I was a small b cup and wore padded push up bras. I wish i had just asked for saline implants in hindsight.

I keep thinking I do not need mammograms and should not expose myself to the radiation in mammos as the surgeons at St George's hospital did a complete clearout of the implant spillage in my chest so yes like a mastectomy. I was left with a flat chest with 2 empty droopy socks for breast skin for 6 months until new implants were put in. I have had 2 nhs mammos so far but think from now on no more. My risk is virtually non existent as I only took the pill for a month in my 20s and have no family history of breast cancer. My theory is that pill usage (contraception and hormone replacement) may increase risks of breaat cancer more than Big Pharma say. I think the 1 in 11 who get breast cancer may be linked to this.

I gave my adult daughters the Tiger Mum lecture on no contraceptive pills and to choose condoms and natural method until marriage.


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> Going back 20 years I was a small b cup and wore padded push up bras. I wish i had just asked for saline implants in hindsight.
> 
> I keep thinking I do not need mammograms and should not expose myself to the radiation in mammos as the surgeons at St George's hospital did a complete clearout of the implant spillage in my chest so yes like a mastectomy. I was left with a flat chest with 2 empty droopy socks for breast skin for 6 months until new implants were put in. I have had 2 nhs mammos so far but think from now on no more. My risk is virtually non existent as I only took the pill for a month in my 20s and have no family history of breast cancer. My theory is that pill usage (contraception and hormone replacement) may increase risks of breaat cancer more than Big Pharma say. I think the 1 in 11 who get breast cancer may be linked to this.
> 
> I gave my adult daughters the Tiger Mum lecture on no contraceptive pills and to choose condoms and natural method until marriage.



I    see!   My Mom never took the pill and has no family history but she got breast cancer in her early 50s!


----------



## yerinxx

Hi @MissOrange! I have been following your posts... I would like to humbly ask your opinions on what you think of Acculift. I am 29 this year and there are some fats on my cheeks and jawline which I am hoping to be removed. I have been to consultations and am scheduled to undergo one in October. It will be my first ever procedure that requires sedation anesthesia. I have only done botox and spot removal before. No major surgeries done before and not looking into those yet. Thank you.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Okay after 750 mls of water I absolutely do not need a lower FL The fg in my lower face has reinflated and the contours look fine! Slight marionettes but I can live with that. Here are my instant selfies without makeup and some with a little. Just saved myself £6900. Water is a fg's best friend. I need to drink 1.5 L a day and more in hot weather or else I shall see a saggy, sunken and irregular lower contour. Maybe put a post it on my phone? Maybe the ulthera did work but I need to only take selfies after 1.5L a day! I just realized I normally drink 2 mini Evian waters a day which is only 660 mls when I need to be drinking 1500 mls and more in hot weather!


Oooh yes you absolutely do not need a FL! look at that gorgeous profile. Don’t even go for the appointment! Ok you’ve totally convinced me to get my fourth fat graft at MVP!! And to drink lots of water after that!


----------



## MissOrange

yerinxx said:


> Hi @MissOrange! I have been following your posts... I would like to humbly ask your opinions on what you think of Acculift. I am 29 this year and there are some fats on my cheeks and jawline which I am hoping to be removed. I have been to consultations and am scheduled to undergo one in October. It will be my first ever procedure that requires sedation anesthesia. I have only done botox and spot removal before. No major surgeries done before and not looking into those yet. Thank you.


Hi @yerinxx, 

I have seen some good results on acculift on instagram by Dr Hong at Fresh. Best to find past patients who had the procedure to ask to see b+a photos and if it lasted. I have never been to Fresh but a friend had fg there and was pleased so you could add Fresh to your shortlist.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Oooh yes you absolutely do not need a FL! look at that gorgeous profile. Don’t even go for the appointment! Ok you’ve totally convinced me to get my fourth fat graft at MVP!! And to drink lots of water after that!


Hi @heartbeep,

I am sitting on a train to Kent looking at the English countryside. I figured I had prepaid £150 for the consult and £26 for the train tickets so I might as well go and see it as a day excursion. I have finished drinking 330 mls of a mini Evian bottle and am starting on the 500 ml bottle. I need to find a toilet when this train arrives in Tunbridge Wells in half an hour! lol. I have been chatting with 2 of his patients, one unhappy and one only a month out. The best research is real past patients who have undergone the same procedure with the same ps. I am hoping he says I don't need. I will be strong if he says I do need. lol


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Hi @heartbeep,
> 
> I am sitting on a train to Kent looking at the English countryside. I figured I had prepaid £150 for the consult and £26 for the train tickets so I might as well go and see it as a day excursion. I have finished drinking 330 mls of a mini Evian bottle and am starting on the 500 ml bottle. I need to find a toilet when this train arrives in Tunbridge Wells in half an hour! lol. I have been chatting with 2 of his patients, one unhappy and one only a month out. The best research is real past patients who have undergone the same procedure with the same ps. I am hoping he says I don't need. I will be strong if he says I do need. lol


Yes please stay strong! If he says you need a lift, just remember it’s all a sales pitch, coz the majority of us on here think you look amazing. 

I’ve just booked my surgery spot at MVP with Dr Seo based on your results! This will be my fourth graft so I’m really crossing my fingers I get as lucky as you did with your graft


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Yes please stay strong! If he says you need a lift, just remember it’s all a sales pitch, coz the majority of us on here think you look amazing.
> 
> I’ve just booked my surgery spot at MVP with Dr Seo based on your results! This will be my fourth graft so I’m really crossing my fingers I get as lucky as you did with your graft


Hi @heartbeep, good luck with Dr Seo and remember be 2 lbs underweight to maximise fat graft insertion then gain back 2 lbs post and drink a ton of water but no msg.

Amir said my skin was not loose enough for a facelift ( I drank 1.2 litres of water between 7 am and 9 am lol). He did push £1400 threadlift with pds with another clinic doctor if I wanted a sharper jaw saying it would dissolve like fillers and last a year and I could get that done annually until I am 55 when my skin may be be loose enough for his facelift. Gulp. I googled pdo threadlift and it says it can dissolve in 6 months and threadlift has as low as a 14% patient satisfaction on rs, not to mention a host of potential complications with threadlift. Not for me thanks. When I have recovered from my half board all you can eat holiday, I shall see if getting down to 98 lbs will give me a sharp jaw naturally but maybe I don't want a sharp jaw as a soft contour fg filled with water is more feminine and easier to keep the weight.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

heartbeep said:


> Yes threadlifts are quite useless! At least for me! I had mine done at JW, paid a fortune for it, swelled like a pumpkin, only for it to make absolutely no difference to my appearance!


Hey heartbeep.  Just curious. These are thread lifts done in the US. They show the after as immediately after BEFORE the swelling starts no doubt. I wonder if you look as tight immediately after. Because I can't get my head around how things would go downhill from there.


----------



## Asiapot

Hi MissOrange, 

I have plucked up the courage and bought my air ticket to see Dr Seo for FG in October.  Will arrive on the 6th and leave on the 10th.  Elizabeth said the stitches can be taken out by any local nurse or doctor when I'm back home.  Tentative plan is to do both consultation and surgery on the same day.  I guess it's okay for FG only.

She asks me to remit deposit to reserve the booking but doesn't say how much is the deposit.  What should I do?


----------



## heartbeep

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Hey heartbeep.  Just curious. These are thread lifts done in the US. They show the after as immediately after BEFORE the swelling starts no doubt. I wonder if you look as tight immediately after. Because I can't get my head around how things would go downhill from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4178627
> View attachment 4178629


Hi @SheOnlyLooks25! Maybe my doctor didn’t do a good job or sthg, but i’d Say that things didn’t go downhill for me so much as they didn’t go anywhere! After all the swelling had gone, I honestly didn’t see any change in the tautness of my skin whatsoever. And it was such a pricey procedure!


----------



## Starry Eyes

MissOrange said:


> Hi @heartbeep, good luck with Dr Seo and remember be 2 lbs underweight to maximise fat graft insertion then gain back 2 lbs post and drink a ton of water but no msg.
> 
> Amir said my skin was not loose enough for a facelift ( I drank 1.2 litres of water between 7 am and 9 am lol). He did push £1400 threadlift with pds with another clinic doctor if I wanted a sharper jaw saying it would dissolve like fillers and last a year and I could get that done annually until I am 55 when my skin may be be loose enough for his facelift. Gulp. I googled pdo threadlift and it says it can dissolve in 6 months and threadlift has as low as a 14% patient satisfaction on rs, not to mention a host of potential complications with threadlift. Not for me thanks. When I have recovered from my half board all you can eat holiday, I shall see if getting down to 98 lbs will give me a sharp jaw naturally but maybe I don't want a sharp jaw as a soft contour fg filled with water is more feminine and easier to keep the weight.




Hi Miss Orange!

Glad to hear that Amir said you don't need a facelift. Do you feel more closure on the matter now? I hope so!

Your Ultherapy before-and-after photos look great. I think it worked well for me too, it's been 5 months now as well. But beauty greed is very real! Some days I look in the mirror and wonder if there is any difference, but when I look at my old photos from a year ago I can definitely tell a huge difference. It's just that we see ourselves everyday and get used to the improvements to the point where we can't see them anymore. 

Regarding thread lifts, I suspect that the best ones are done in Asia and the best results are done on Asians as we have thicker skin and chubbier faces. I'm considering a thread lift maybe next year when I turn 40, and trying to find the right doctor.


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> I    see!   My Mom never took the pill and has no family history but she got breast cancer in her early 50s!


Oh no! Sorry to hear that @arnott. Wow I wonder what else? Processed foods, too much sugar, being overweight also predispose to cancer? Hope she has the all clear now.


----------



## MissOrange

Starry Eyes said:


> Hi Miss Orange!
> 
> Glad to hear that Amir said you don't need a facelift. Do you feel more closure on the matter now? I hope so!
> 
> Your Ultherapy before-and-after photos look great. I think it worked well for me too, it's been 5 months now as well. But beauty greed is very real! Some days I look in the mirror and wonder if there is any difference, but when I look at my old photos from a year ago I can definitely tell a huge difference. It's just that we see ourselves everyday and get used to the improvements to the point where we can't see them anymore.
> 
> Regarding thread lifts, I suspect that the best ones are done in Asia and the best results are done on Asians as we have thicker skin and chubbier faces. I'm considering a thread lift maybe next year when I turn 40, and trying to find the right doctor.


Yes thanks @Starry Eyes I now have closure...no FL for me. I love that expression beauty greed. That is very true. I have the I want more bug...I want to be more beautiful. lol. Glad to hear ulthera is working for you too. When you find a surgeon who has good threadlift results, do share. I am so unlucky I will be the one who gets all the complications so no threadlift for me but I keep thinking Han Ye Seul must have something like threadlift for her sharp contour. lol


----------



## MissOrange

Asiapot said:


> Hi MissOrange,
> 
> I have plucked up the courage and bought my air ticket to see Dr Seo for FG in October.  Will arrive on the 6th and leave on the 10th.  Elizabeth said the stitches can be taken out by any local nurse or doctor when I'm back home.  Tentative plan is to do both consultation and surgery on the same day.  I guess it's okay for FG only.
> 
> She asks me to remit deposit to reserve the booking but doesn't say how much is the deposit.  What should I do?


Hi @Asiapot, wow that was fast. October is just over a month away. Best to ask Elizabeth again how much for the deposit. If she is slow to answer on kakao then try WhatsApp. Also bear in mind the time zone difference. I found that 8 am uk time got me a reply as it was 4 pm korea time and quieter than first thing in the morning in korea. I told Dr Seo I would see him again in 2019 but this fg is holding nicely so I won't need to go back to mvp. Say hi for me and get a selfie with Seo for your ps souvenir. I may never get to see Dr Seo again as my face ps is finished!


----------



## Asiapot

Yes, very quick indeed MissOrange.  I have been putting up with my deflated face for more than a few years.   I hate how I look now.  In the past few years, I literally hid myself away from friends and colleagues by declining invitations to socialize.  I am entirely sold on your huge success with your fg results.  Not sure if I have too high hope on my fg but will cross my fingers.

I am from Hong Kong so I'm only an hour behind Korea.  You have recommended a couple of hotels a while ago.  Are they close to MVP?  I'm not sure if I should stay close to MVP or the city centre where all the shops are.   Í am not a shopping spree but spending a few days all by myself in a strange place without entertainment could be boring.

I will say hello to Dr Seo for you.  Also love StarryEyes' expression.  Well, perhaps you will be haunted by your beauty greed later and can't help but going back to see him again! lol

Have a great weekend Miss Orange!


----------



## MissOrange

Asiapot said:


> Yes, very quick indeed MissOrange.  I have been putting up with my deflated face for more than a few years.   I hate how I look now.  In the past few years, I literally hid myself away from friends and colleagues by declining invitations to socialize.  I am entirely sold on your huge success with your fg results.  Not sure if I have too high hope on my fg but will cross my fingers.
> 
> I am from Hong Kong so I'm only an hour behind Korea.  You have recommended a couple of hotels a while ago.  Are they close to MVP?  I'm not sure if I should stay close to MVP or the city centre where all the shops are.   Í am not a shopping spree but spending a few days all by myself in a strange place without entertainment could be boring.
> 
> I will say hello to Dr Seo for you.  Also love StarryEyes' expression.  Well, perhaps you will be haunted by your beauty greed later and can't help but going back to see him again! lol
> 
> Have a great weekend Miss Orange!


You are super lucky living an hour away from korea! I stayed at gangnam art nouveau in 2016 £70/ night and at California hotel in 2017 and 2018 for £60/night. For me staying close to cheap korean restaurants and the metro subway were vital! The metro is easy to use with a metro card like a uk oyster card that you top up. Print off a metro map and a google map of where the clinic and the hotels are. Taxis are about 5000 won or $5 to go 1-2 metro stops.

Really sorry to hear you went into hiding from a deflated face. Remember the first fg has a 50% retention so fly back for 1-2 top ups. Each time you retain 50%. 

Have a great weekend too!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on the curtain fringe for older ladies. I am immediately drawn to any artticle about what older ladies are doing wrong or how to look younger and one such article mentioned hair and how older ladies should have curtain fringes and avoid flat hair. So I put the curtain fringe to the test last night at a family event and one relative said I look completely different from when she last saw me at an uncle's funeral and how my face keeps changing each time she sees me. She has tried dermarolling herself.

Interesting I won't need botox for my forehead with this curtain fringe! Hides more signs of aging! PS I dyed my hair back to brown using L'Oréal excellence number 4. I decided I needed more lighit in my hair as black was too dark on tv.


----------



## Asiapot

MissOrange said:


> You are super lucky living an hour away from korea! I stayed at gangnam art nouveau in 2016 £70/ night and at California hotel in 2017 and 2018 for £60/night. For me staying close to cheap korean restaurants and the metro subway were vital! The metro is easy to use with a metro card like a uk oyster card that you top up. Print off a metro map and a google map of where the clinic and the hotels are. Taxis are about 5000 won or $5 to go 1-2 metro stops.
> 
> Really sorry to hear you went into hiding from a deflated face. Remember the first fg has a 50% retention so fly back for 1-2 top ups. Each time you retain 50%.
> 
> Have a great weekend too!


Thanks again MissOrange.

Well, although it's only an hour's time difference, it still takes almost 4 hours flying to Seoul.  No complaint here! lol

Elizabeth has confirmed that the price includes one top up within 3 months.  You mentioned before that the 3rd one, if necessary, would cost 1 million won.  Does that include the 4th top up?


----------



## Asiapot

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on the curtain fringe for older ladies. I am immediately drawn to any artticle about what older ladies are doing wrong or how to look younger and one such article mentioned hair and how older ladies should have curtain fringes and avoid flat hair. So I put the curtain fringe to the test last night at a family event and one relative said I look completely different from when she last saw me at an uncle's funeral and how my face keeps changing each time she sees me. She has tried dermarolling herself.
> 
> Interesting I won't need botox for my forehead with this curtain fringe! Hides more signs of aging! PS I dyed my hair back to brown using L'Oréal excellence number 4. I decided I needed more lighit in my hair as black was too dark on tv.



I also like curtain fringe to diulte attention to any forehead wrinkles too!

You look great even for a 20yo!


----------



## MissOrange

Asiapot said:


> Thanks again MissOrange.
> 
> Well, although it's only an hour's time difference, it still takes almost 4 hours flying to Seoul.  No complaint here! lol
> 
> Elizabeth has confirmed that the price includes one top up within 3 months.  You mentioned before that the 3rd one, if necessary, would cost 1 million won.  Does that include the 4th top up?


Ah 4 hours ok. The 1 million is per top up after the one included within 3 months. I remember flying to Korea to DAPRS in July and September 2016 for my fg and then top up incuded in the first price. That was a brutal 12-16 hour flight with layover each way and finding the cheapest economy flights at £450-£550 with layovers! In 2016 mvp was charging 1.5 million for fat graft (in 2018 2 million) and DA 1.8 million for one or 2.5 million for 2 (in 2017 DA tried to charge me 5 million for another top up). I thought oh cheaper at DA for 2 but did not know that it is routine for a top up to be included within 3 months of the first! So actually MVP was cheaper as it probably included a top up too, and eventually in 2018 I saw it was better and cheaper at MVP after all. Those who had fg with another doctor at MVP said it only lasted a month so it is important to insist on only Dr Seo as there are 3 other doctors there. A case of me foolishly being too much of a bargain hunter instead of going with a clinic and surgeon who had already given me beautiful eyes. Another tip for girls is to ask for ptosis correction with your des as the muscle needs cutting and tightening too else the lid skin crease may drop, just like a skin only facelift or a skin only lip lift. My bullhorn lip lift was muscle and skin cutting and has lasted 20 months and counting and my des with ptosis muscle correction has lasted 28 months and counting.

Remember in the UK a guy paid £7000 for fat graft and it was not a good job as they are not as skilled as in Korea in my opinion and his surgeon had basically flown to korea to learn so was a novice himself!

Yesterday I drank so much water at the dinner party that it filled my stomach up so I hardly ate! I kept thinking, need water, need water for a pretty face and refilling my water glass with the table pitcher! lol. Then I awoke and am a pound lighter too! Yay! Went down from 100.6 to 99.8 lbs as I basically didn't have my dinner! Another tip to lose weight...fill your stomach with water during meals so you eat less.


----------



## heartbeep

Asiapot said:


> Yes, very quick indeed MissOrange.  I have been putting up with my deflated face for more than a few years.   I hate how I look now.  In the past few years, I literally hid myself away from friends and colleagues by declining invitations to socialize.  I am entirely sold on your huge success with your fg results.  Not sure if I have too high hope on my fg but will cross my fingers.
> 
> I am from Hong Kong so I'm only an hour behind Korea.  You have recommended a couple of hotels a while ago.  Are they close to MVP?  I'm not sure if I should stay close to MVP or the city centre where all the shops are.   Í am not a shopping spree but spending a few days all by myself in a strange place without entertainment could be boring.
> 
> I will say hello to Dr Seo for you.  Also love StarryEyes' expression.  Well, perhaps you will be haunted by your beauty greed later and can't help but going back to see him again! lol
> 
> Have a great weekend Miss Orange!


Hello @Asiapot, I’ll be going for my fourth fat graft with Dr Seo in October too! I too have been putting up with a very sunken, deflated face for years, and hope Dr Seo will be able to provide a magical solution. Was considering Regen as well, but placed my deposit with MVP based on @MissOrange’s fantastic results


----------



## Asiapot

MissOrange said:


> Ah 4 hours ok. The 1 million is per top up after the one included within 3 months. I remember flying to Korea to DAPRS in July and September 2016 for my fg and then top up incuded in the first price. That was a brutal 12-16 hour flight with layover each way and finding the cheapest economy flights at £450-£550 with layovers! In 2016 mvp was charging 1.5 million for fat graft (in 2018 2 million) and DA 1.8 million for one or 2.5 million for 2 (in 2017 DA tried to charge me 5 million for another top up). I thought oh cheaper at DA for 2 but did not know that it is routine for a top up to be included within 3 months of the first! So actually MVP was cheaper as it probably included a top up too, and eventually in 2018 I saw it was better and cheaper at MVP after all. Those who had fg with another doctor at MVP said it only lasted a month so it is important to insist on only Dr Seo as there are 3 other doctors there. A case of me foolishly being too much of a bargain hunter instead of going with a clinic and surgeon who had already given me beautiful eyes. Another tip for girls is to ask for ptosis correction with your des as the muscle needs cutting and tightening too else the lid skin crease may drop, just like a skin only facelift or a skin only lip lift. My bullhorn lip lift was muscle and skin cutting and has lasted 20 months and counting and my des with ptosis muscle correction has lasted 28 months and counting.
> 
> Remember in the UK a guy paid £7000 for fat graft and it was not a good job as they are not as skilled as in Korea in my opinion and his surgeon had basically flown to korea to learn so was a novice himself!
> 
> Yesterday I drank so much water at the dinner party that it filled my stomach up so I hardly ate! I kept thinking, need water, need water for a pretty face and refilling my water glass with the table pitcher! lol. Then I awoke and am a pound lighter too! Yay! Went down from 100.6 to 99.8 lbs as I basically didn't have my dinner! Another tip to lose weight...fill your stomach with water during meals so you eat less.



I have told Elizabeth 4 times (in 3 days!) that I would only let Dr Seo to do my FG.  I'm sure she has got my message across! lol   I will try to lose 2 lbs pre op as well as per your suggestion.  Suppose prp fg is standard across MVP.  I'm a bit worried now as you said the fg by another doctor there only lasted for a month.


----------



## MissOrange

Asiapot said:


> I have told Elizabeth 4 times (in 3 days!) that I would only let Dr Seo to do my FG.  I'm sure she has got my message across! lol   I will try to lose 2 lbs pre op as well as per your suggestion.  Suppose prp fg is standard across MVP.  I'm a bit worried now as you said the fg by another doctor there only lasted for a month.


Don't be worried @Asiapot. Remember longevity of fg also depends on the skill of the doctor to place in fine layers. You will be fine with Dr Seo and daily hydration. Gain 2 lbs after fg to help the fg thrive and limit alcohol which shrivels fg.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on how foreigners can try to beat the system and get local Korean prices for plastic surgery. My Korean language teacher is really impressed with my korean on kakao which means the google translate app works!

When next you kakao a clinic, cut and paste your 'korean' into your kakao message and see if the quote you get is a lot cheaper. You may need to crop out some features if you are Caucasian to try to look korean, ie a photo of just your nose etc. To understand the korean reply, copy and paste it into the google translate app. With google translate foreigners don't need inflated clinic prices for a clinic translator.

I wonder if there is an app that listens to verbal korean and translates spoken korean too? That would be so helpful at consultation to ensure the translator is translating correctly.


----------



## Asiapot

I thought MVP only required 10% downpayment but Elizabeth just wrote me asking for payment in FULL to a personal bank account with a stranger's name, not MVP!


----------



## MissOrange

Asiapot said:


> I thought MVP only required 10% downpayment but Elizabeth just wrote me asking for payment in FULL to a personal bank account with a stranger's name, not MVP!


Wow I don't know what to say. I usually sent them a screenshot of my paid plane ticket and hotel booking as proof I was coming and always paid cash at consultation. 

I made a bank transfer for a $500 deposit with Cinderella in 2016 to a Cinderella doctor's personal bank account but then changed my mind and got the refund back in person in won after giving them a few weeks notice.

I guess Dr Seo is very popular now so blocking surgery time needs a big deposit. It is something you have to decide yourself as to whether you feel comfortable paying the full amount to a personal account or try to negotiate a smaller figure as a deposit and pay cash at consultation.


----------



## MissOrange

Yay finally after 26 months I am back to looking pretty and getting positive reactions from the public! Remember how in July 2016 I looked so good after mvp and the korean pharmacist said I was beautiful, then I got beauty greed and wrecked my face with DA fg 2 days later.

Monday night I met 2 ladies also in their 50s who hadn't seen me in a while and when they saw me they both stared and stared and stared...like beyond what was normal or comfortable. There are only 2 reasons why people stare for a long time... either you are beautiful or you are damaged. Let's hope it is not the latter. lol. I spent the evening drinking glass after glass of water! lol. I also noticed the waiter giving me extra attention. I thought wow so this is what life is like looking pretty! Beats being invisible and the sales assistant serving the person behind you in the queue at the till or boys chanting who let the dogs out as I walked by feeling so ugly. So at this point I am staying away from ps as I do not want to wreck my face again. The downside I have noticed is getting stalked! Male strangers are contacting me to meet up! Freaky when you see them messaging you on instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn!

I then got an invite to my 35th high school reunion and you know what I did. I started looking up my classmates on the net to see what they looked like now especially the girl who went out with the guy I fancied. lol. That made my day! I know, I know but remember I was sooo ugly in high school I didn't even go to my prom. And the med school class president thought it was funny to invite me to the med school prom as his date only to cancel on me the night before saying his mother was unwell, then take another girl as asking ugly me out was a prank. For all you girls out there who have experienced a cruel life because you were not born beautiful, use my tips to transform!

Now it is vital to know when to stop before you get beauty greed. Here are Monday's photos. Just copy my ps journey if you are in your 40s or 50s and you too can look young and pretty again! Although I have never been this pretty in my youth!


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Yay finally after 26 months I am back to looking pretty and getting positive reactions from the public! Remember how in July 2016 I looked so good after mvp and the korean pharmacist said I was beautiful, then I got beauty greed and wrecked my face with DA fg 2 days later.
> 
> Monday night I met 2 ladies also in their 50s who hadn't seen me in a while and when they saw me they both stared and stared and stared...like beyond what was normal or comfortable. There are only 2 reasons why people stare for a long time... either you are beautiful or you are damaged. Let's hope it is not the latter. lol. I spent the evening drinking glass after glass of water! lol. I also noticed the waiter giving me extra attention. I thought wow so this is what life is like looking pretty! Beats being invisible and the sales assistant serving the person behind you in the queue at the till or boys chanting who let the dogs out as I walked by feeling so ugly. So at this point I am staying away from ps as I do not want to wreck my face again. The downside I have noticed is getting stalked! Male strangers are contacting me to meet up! Freaky when you see them messaging you on instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn!
> 
> I then got an invite to my 35th high school reunion and you know what I did. I started looking up my classmates on the net to see what they looked like now especially the girl who went out with the guy I fancied. lol. That made my day! I know, I know but remember I was sooo ugly in high school I didn't even go to my prom. And the med school class president thought it was funny to invite me to the med school prom as his date only to cancel on me the night before saying his mother was unwell, then take another girl as asking ugly me out was a prank. For all you girls out there who have experienced a cruel life because you were not born beautiful, use my tips to transform!
> 
> Now it is vital to know when to stop before you get beauty greed. Here are Monday's photos. Just copy my ps journey if you are in your 40s or 50s and you too can look young and pretty again! Although I have never been this pretty in my youth!


You’re certainly extremely pretty now @MissOrange! I wonder if I could trouble you to walk us through your post-surgery routine with respect to your MVP fat graft? In the spirit of copying your ps journey, I want to make sure I get everything down to a T! I know you’ve mentioned losing 2lbs before the surgery and avoiding alcohol, but what other things did you do or not do? What abt washing your face, physical activity, treatments you might hv done at the clinic, how you slept etc. Would really appreciate any input you might have!


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> You’re certainly extremely pretty now @MissOrange! I wonder if I could trouble you to walk us through your post-surgery routine with respect to your MVP fat graft? In the spirit of copying your ps journey, I want to make sure I get everything down to a T! I know you’ve mentioned losing 2lbs before the surgery and avoiding alcohol, but what other things did you do or not do? What abt washing your face, physical activity, treatments you might hv done at the clinic, how you slept etc. Would really appreciate any input you might have!


You are too sweet @heartbeep. Okay so I forced myself to go down to 96.8 lbs as I wanted maintenance to be 99 lbs. That was torture but I managed. Post surgery I took a taxi back to the California hotel. I did daily walking exercise to reduce swelling, applied arnica cream and took arnica mini pills to reduce bruising. I took the antibiotics mvp gave me and doxycycline. I took the tylenol mvp gave me every 6 hours but just for 24 hours. I lay in bed on all the pillows to elevate the head to reduce swelling. I washed my face the next day which is a no no as I was supposed to wait for my postop check but I am so impatient I peeled off the face tapes. I washed my face twice a day after day 1. I took out my own sutures on day 2-3. MVP gave me an iv vitamin drip and light treatment to reduce swelling. I couldn't sleep as I was struggling with korea time and was on uk time. I put on my head bandage I brought with to again reduce swelling. I used a cold pack on my face for hours to reduce swelling. I drank a can of pineapple juice from a 7-11 store daily as bromelain also helps. I ate bulgogi and zanchi guksu noodles for lunch and dinner respectively. I never went out at night so stayed in my room except the times I met with a pf member or went to mvp. I flew home on day 3/4 so it was a whirlwind surgical trip. I would recommend you stay 5-7 days as my face swelled on the airplane but went down the next day in London. Eating korean food twice daily made me gain weight to 99 lbs where I am happy to stay and this has kept the fg happy as well as now 6 months later working out that I also needed to drink 1.5 litres of water a day! Like 2 years of fgs and I only now figured out I needed to drink 1.5 litres a day!!!

Maybe I could have stopped after my second or third face fg as my saggy face may have been due to dehydration and my fg may not have reabsorbed after all? I did not know all this but kept booking fg top ups when I saw a saggy deflated face back in London. Then of course I was starved and dehydrated as standard preop before surgery in korea so thought ah yes definitely needed a top up.

Now I understand how violaxoxo on rs only had one face fg and never needed top ups! She was never dehydrated! I am now excited that I never need to fly to korea for fg top up and water is so much cheaper! lol


----------



## gazoo

@MissOrange, you look gorgeous with the fringe. Thank you for being you. Your detailed posts and honesty are truly refreshing. You're as beautiful inside as you are on the outside. My DH again commented how hot you are tonight, seeing your newest photos. I am desperately sorry to hear all you have been through. The cruelty of students is horrible. Yet, here you are slaying all day at age 50+.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> You are too sweet @heartbeep. Okay so I forced myself to go down to 96.8 lbs as I wanted maintenance to be 99 lbs. That was torture but I managed. Post surgery I took a taxi back to the California hotel. I did daily walking exercise to reduce swelling, applied arnica cream and took arnica mini pills to reduce bruising. I took the antibiotics mvp gave me and doxycycline. I took the tylenol mvp gave me every 6 hours but just for 24 hours. I lay in bed on all the pillows to elevate the head to reduce swelling. I washed my face the next day which is a no no as I was supposed to wait for my postop check but I am so impatient I peeled off the face tapes. I washed my face twice a day after day 1. I took out my own sutures on day 2-3. MVP gave me an iv vitamin drip and light treatment to reduce swelling. I couldn't sleep as I was struggling with korea time and was on uk time. I put on my head bandage I brought with to again reduce swelling. I used a cold pack on my face for hours to reduce swelling. I drank a can of pineapple juice from a 7-11 store daily as bromelain also helps. I ate bulgogi and zanchi guksu noodles for lunch and dinner respectively. I never went out at night so stayed in my room except the times I met with a pf member or went to mvp. I flew home on day 3/4 so it was a whirlwind surgical trip. I would recommend you stay 5-7 days as my face swelled on the airplane but went down the next day in London. Eating korean food twice daily made me gain weight to 99 lbs where I am happy to stay and this has kept the fg happy as well as now 6 months later working out that I also needed to drink 1.5 litres of water a day! Like 2 years of fgs and I only now figured out I needed to drink 1.5 litres a day!!!
> 
> Maybe I could have stopped after my second or third face fg as my saggy face may have been due to dehydration and my fg may not have reabsorbed after all? I did not know all this but kept booking fg top ups when I saw a saggy deflated face back in London. Then of course I was starved and dehydrated as standard preop before surgery in korea so thought ah yes definitely needed a top up.
> 
> Now I understand how violaxoxo on rs only had one face fg and never needed top ups! She was never dehydrated! I am now excited that I never need to fly to korea for fg top up and water is so much cheaper! lol


Haha yes, you'll be saving a lot of money now! Just remember to always have a flask of water by your side.

Thank you so much for such a detailed recounting of your post-surgery routine! I will try my best to imitate it. Just one thing though - I've requested that when I go for my fat graft in mvp, I don't want Dr Seo to place any bandages on me. I feel that the removal of the bandages affects the graft coz of all the pulling and tugging (the bandages are so sticky!). I had bandages for my first two grafts and none for my third, and I felt the third graft was the most successful. Of course this could just be an accumulative result!

And yes, walking really helps with the swelling! I may avoid the light treatment though, as my consultant at JW mentioned that it may interfere with the graft.

Thanks again @MissOrange! You're truly a generous soul, sharing your wealth of knowledge so willingly and happily!

Btw, now that you've discovered that you may actually have just needed one or two fat grafts so long as you stay hydrated, would you still say that your graft by Dr Seo is still the best of the four you've done?


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Haha yes, you'll be saving a lot of money now! Just remember to always have a flask of water by your side.
> 
> Thank you so much for such a detailed recounting of your post-surgery routine! I will try my best to imitate it. Just one thing though - I've requested that when I go for my fat graft in mvp, I don't want Dr Seo to place any bandages on me. I feel that the removal of the bandages affects the graft coz of all the pulling and tugging (the bandages are so sticky!). I had bandages for my first two grafts and none for my third, and I felt the third graft was the most successful. Of course this could just be an accumulative result!
> 
> And yes, walking really helps with the swelling! I may avoid the light treatment though, as my consultant at JW mentioned that it may interfere with the graft.
> 
> Thanks again @MissOrange! You're truly a generous soul, sharing your wealth of knowledge so willingly and happily!
> 
> Btw, now that you've discovered that you may actually have just needed one or two fat grafts so long as you stay hydrated, would you still say that your graft by Dr Seo is still the best of the four you've done?


Oh I forgot @heartbeep , I had the tapes on my face because of the ulthera I had with fg. Yes you can have no tapes for fg.

Yes Dr Seo's fg is the best as DA's Dr Kim's fg distorted my face postop with heavy bruising and swelling like a monster's face vs with Dr Seo's fg I did not start crying postop as I looked nice even during that first postop week!  I shall post my 2 postop photos of da vs 2 mvp postop fg on days 0-1 and you will see the huge difference in skills which suggests one surgeon was rough and the other gentle in doing fg on me and the last photo is of my mvp face after vermilion lip lift taken 2 days before the first photo of my DA monster fg in July 2016 as a sad reminder of what happened as a consequence of beauty greed. What a painful lesson that was. It has taken me 2 years to try to get back the face in the last photo. Avoid DA for fg please and know when to stop your ps journey.


----------



## MissOrange

I have yet to try the Chinese clear duct tape method for a sharp v line contour. I have a champagne event tonight so will try to remember to do this experiment. I can't wear my blue contacts for a while as I developed dry eyes which gives you blurry vision too and had to use hypromellose wetting eye drops a lot. I can't drink champagne either as I now suffer from what I believe is a duodenal ulcer and am now on omeprazole and have a GI referral for November on the nhs. Had severe 2 hour long heartburn! So no morning coffee, no diet coke at lunch and no champagne for a month to let this ulcer heal. It woke me up at 1 am 2 days in a row now. Aargh I look young on the outside but my body is continuing to age on the inside! lol.


----------



## Asiapot

MissOrange said:


> Wow I don't know what to say. I usually sent them a screenshot of my paid plane ticket and hotel booking as proof I was coming and always paid cash at consultation.
> 
> I made a bank transfer for a $500 deposit with Cinderella in 2016 to a Cinderella doctor's personal bank account but then changed my mind and got the refund back in person in won after giving them a few weeks notice.
> 
> I guess Dr Seo is very popular now so blocking surgery time needs a big deposit. It is something you have to decide yourself as to whether you feel comfortable paying the full amount to a personal account or try to negotiate a smaller figure as a deposit and pay cash at consultation.


Got clarification now, no need to pay in full.  Just very confusing.  I asked if the deposit was 10% then Elizabeth sent me a policy asking for ENTIRE deposit.  Obviously, someone got in touch with MVP to verify the deposit situation after seeing my post and they got mad.  Anyway, I found them very arrogant.  I'm sure they aren't the nicest people to deal with if anything goes wrong with their surgery.  Would like to hear if there's any other doctor/clinic for FG.


----------



## Asiapot

heartbeep said:


> Hello @Asiapot, I’ll be going for my fourth fat graft with Dr Seo in October too! I too have been putting up with a very sunken, deflated face for years, and hope Dr Seo will be able to provide a magical solution. Was considering Regen as well, but placed my deposit with MVP based on @MissOrange’s fantastic results


Hi heartbeep, sorry for the late reply.  About when in October will you be in Seoul?  Also wonder where did you get the first 3 fat grafts done.


----------



## MissOrange

Asiapot said:


> Got clarification now, no need to pay in full.  Just very confusing.  I asked if the deposit was 10% then Elizabeth sent me a policy asking for ENTIRE deposit.  Obviously, someone got in touch with MVP to verify the deposit situation after seeing my post and they got mad.  Anyway, I found them very arrogant.  I'm sure they aren't the nicest people to deal with if anything goes wrong with their surgery.  Would like to hear if there's any other doctor/clinic for FG.


I am sorry you had difficulty getting a straight answer  but seriously Dr Seo is the best for fg in my opinion and the cheapest. Elizabeth is really sweet in person and probably was pressured to ask for full payment as your surgery date is next month and the quotes are very cheap compared to Regen and Fresh. Don't let this stop you from getting the last and best fg. Elizabeth works extremely hard from 8 am to 10 pm and tries hard to squeeze in patients into their preferred surgery slots so juggling Dr Seo's schedule is tough. I would do anything to get on his operating list. Seeing is believing...over 6 months and fg still going strong.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Oh I forgot @heartbeep , I had the tapes on my face because of the ulthera I had with fg. Yes you can have no tapes for fg.
> 
> Yes Dr Seo's fg is the best as DA's Dr Kim's fg distorted my face postop with heavy bruising and swelling like a monster's face vs with Dr Seo's fg I did not start crying postop as I looked nice even during that first postop week!  I shall post my 2 postop photos of da vs 2 mvp postop fg on days 0-1 and you will see the huge difference in skills which suggests one surgeon was rough and the other gentle in doing fg on me and the last photo is of my mvp face after vermilion lip lift taken 2 days before the first photo of my DA monster fg in July 2016 as a sad reminder of what happened as a consequence of beauty greed. What a painful lesson that was. It has taken me 2 years to try to get back the face in the last photo. Avoid DA for fg please and know when to stop your ps journey.



haha yes very important to know when to stop! I learned that the hard way when I had my buccal fats removed in 2010 even though I was already looking fine. That caused my cheeks to cave in and I've been paying for it since with fillers and grafts!

Yes Dr Seo's work definitely looks gentler and more meticulous! Would you say though that he's a bit more conservative in his approach? Coz I would like a very full look for myself (to compensate for the loss of buccal fats), but from the post-surgery photos that Elizabeth has sent me, it seems like he favors a more natural and less-full look


----------



## heartbeep

Asiapot said:


> Hi heartbeep, sorry for the late reply.  About when in October will you be in Seoul?  Also wonder where did you get the first 3 fat grafts done.


Hi @Asiapot ! My first two grafts were from BK and my third was from JW. The first two grafts were completely re-absorbed, while I see some degree of retention with the third. So hoping the fourth will be my last! 

I'll be in Seoul end October! I've already placed my deposit with mvp, but I'm also seriously considering Regen, as they seem to have quite good reviews for their fat grafts


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> I have yet to try the Chinese clear duct tape method for a sharp v line contour. I have a champagne event tonight so will try to remember to do this experiment. I can't wear my blue contacts for a while as I developed dry eyes which gives you blurry vision too and had to use hypromellose wetting eye drops a lot. I can't drink champagne either as I now suffer from what I believe is a duodenal ulcer and am now on omeprazole and have a GI referral for November on the nhs. Had severe 2 hour long heartburn! So no morning coffee, no diet coke at lunch and no champagne for a month to let this ulcer heal. It woke me up at 1 am 2 days in a row now. Aargh I look young on the outside but my body is continuing to age on the inside! lol.


I have very bad acid reflux myself! And a hiatus hernia. I do hope my condition won't be exacerbated by the post-surgery antibiotics.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> haha yes very important to know when to stop! I learned that the hard way when I had my buccal fats removed in 2010 even though I was already looking fine. That caused my cheeks to cave in and I've been paying for it since with fillers and grafts!
> 
> Yes Dr Seo's work definitely looks gentler and more meticulous! Would you say though that he's a bit more conservative in his approach? Coz I would like a very full look for myself (to compensate for the loss of buccal fats), but from the post-surgery photos that Elizabeth has sent me, it seems like he favors a more natural and less-full look


Hi @heartbeep oh I am sorry to hear you too suffered from beauty greed and its consequences.  It does hurt and you feel regret but what is done is done and to err is human. Hopefully you too can come to the end of your ps journey with fg.

I would say he prefers a natural beauty look but he does listen so when I said overfill my upper lids as they tend to absorb, he did! That is probably why even when dehydrated my lids stay full! Maybe I should have said overfill my lower face so I wouldn't have to keep drinking 1.5 litres a day. I woke up so many times last night to empty my bladder. lol.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> I have very bad acid reflux myself! And a hiatus hernia. I do hope my condition won't be exacerbated by the post-surgery antibiotics.


Hi @heartbeep are you a worrier type like I am? I worry about everything yet my husband doesn't. My daughters never tell me when they are coming home and even spend the night out and not tell me! Can you imagine the rise in my stress hormones and acid production! 

It is only a week of antibiotics so will be fine. I had to take probiotics when I was on several weeks of doxycycline for the rhino abscess. In korea don't drink any fizzy drinks. I recall one trip to korea and drank coke zero all the time thinking it was zero caffeine and zero calories. Big mistake. I was like a zombie unable to sleep! lol


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> @heartbeep are you a worrier type like I am? I worry about everything yet my husband doesn't. My daughters never tell me when they are coming home and even spend the night out and not tell me! Can you imagine the rise in my stress hormones and acid production!
> 
> It is only a week of antibiotics so will be fine. I had to take probiotics when I was on several weeks of doxycycline for the rhino abscess. In korea don't drink any fizzy drinks. I recall one trip to korea and drank coke zero all the time thinking it was zero caffeine and zero calories. Big mistake. I was like a zombie unable to sleep! lol


Hi @MissOrange! YES I’m a huge worrier!! Yeah that’s probably worsening my reflux eh? Having children certainly only adds to all the worry! And I too get very affected by the slightest amount of caffeine. I can’t even drink hot chocolate!


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Hi @heartbeep oh I am sorry to hear you too suffered from beauty greed and its consequences.  It does hurt and you feel regret but what is done is done and to err is human. Hopefully you too can come to the end of your ps journey with fg.
> 
> I would say he prefers a natural beauty look but he does listen so when I said overfill my upper lids as they tend to absorb, he did! That is probably why even when dehydrated my lids stay full! Maybe I should have said overfill my lower face so I wouldn't have to keep drinking 1.5 litres a day. I woke up so many times last night to empty my bladder. lol.


@MissOrange, that sounds v uncomfortable! maybe you could consider returning for a top up for your lower face! Then we could do it together


----------



## missy_sana

Hi everyone,

MVP also asked me to put down deposit.

How much deposit may depend on circumstances, for example, whether it is peak season, the number of surgical procedures involved in a booking, and if you are a regular/returning customer or not.

I think they especially ask for full payment from new patients & foreigners, because of the high risk of them going to other clinics instead or changing their mind for whatever reason.  @Asiapot, you see that the slightest doubt has already got you thinking going elsewhere?  If you were to refuse paying a deposit, then do a No-Show at the time of surgery, it not only causes loss of potential earnings to the clinic, but also a delay to the queue of patients waiting in line for surgery, even though the clinic has a number of local Koreans on standby in the waiting room to take your place if you didn't show up. 

Sometimes we get too wrapped up in ourselves as patients and expect perfect service and perfect results, but we have to understand that the surgeons and clinic staff are human too, and get numerous enquiries from potential customers everyday who may not even put down a deposit.  I'm not just referring to MVP, but I'm saying this in general to all clinics worldwide.  Of course there are places that are blatantly blacklisted for good reason, but do expect some kind of human error in every clinic.  From what I've seen in this forum, there doesn't seem to be a clinic that is 100% perfect, and it can depend on luck and also what you can tolerate.

Anyway, back to the topic of payment for foreigners... the deposit would ensure that MVP arranges a taxi to pick you up at the airport and transport you to your hotel or directly to their clinic, depending on the scheduled timing of your flight & surgery.

I also did the bank transfer to MVP under Dr Hyun's full name, but I found it to be an expensive and very slow payment method, because I chose to pay the all the bank fees on both sides for sending AND receiving remittance.

Using a credit card to make a secure payment in advance is the fastest and gives you the most peace of mind, because if any problems, you can make a claim for refund from your credit card company.  Probably have to make a phonecall to Elizabeth to process your card payment.

I previously posted more info on surgery payment methods + tax refund (if they still offer that), so please click on the thread link and read all the posts there:



missy_sana said:


> Sorry to cross-reference these posts from another thread, but they are relevant to this thread and hopefully have offered adequate opinions on the same money issue that people always ask about:
> 
> 1. KRW or USD?
> 
> 2. Which payment method?
> 
> 
> 
> Original thread:
> https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/tax-refund-for-plastic-surgery-in-korea.983921/


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Hi @MissOrange! YES I’m a huge worrier!! Yeah that’s probably worsening my reflux eh? Having children certainly only adds to all the worry! And I too get very affected by the slightest amount of caffeine. I can’t even drink hot chocolate!


Oh wow @heartbeep even to hot chocolate! Oh I love chocolate. Yummy. Now of course I am worrying about gastroscopy! lol. I was worried last night at the champagne reception and put ranitidine and rennie tablets in my purse just in case! Then I drank half a glass of champagne and switched to a jug of water. No 1 am awakening. Phew. Hoping 1-2 months of omeprazole and no coffee or diet coke will heal any duodenal ulcers.

Do you pack way early for your trip abroad? I got out my suitcase a month early and each day put one item in, in anticipation of that 4th fg back in Feb. I also counted down the days in my diary. That way I can savour the trip a lot longer as it is half way across the world!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on using hair to look younger. I tried the diy extreme blonde experiment but ended up with straw coloured intensely dry hair and the colour unevenly distributed. I then dyed my hair all the way back to black but that reflected no light so dyed it brown. It now looks brown black in the evening and in daylight it looks like dark blonde balayage! Magic to have 2 hair colours in 1. Remember my tip try not to get haircuts as you age as you want long hair to look 20s in your later years and post menopause and hair transplant, hair sheds and thins enormously. Short hair is also often associated with older women. The good news is that my hair volume has grown back some in 4 years and my hairdresser says 3 shampoo visits with keune shampoo has made my dry hair silky soft. I need to buy keune. If you do get a haircut, ask for layers to add volume and a rounded trim, no sharp straight lines. Can you believe there is a 52 year old lady behind that hair?! lol. No way I say!


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Oh wow @heartbeep even to hot chocolate! Oh I love chocolate. Yummy. Now of course I am worrying about gastroscopy! lol. I was worried last night at the champagne reception and put ranitidine and rennie tablets in my purse just in case! Then I drank half a glass of champagne and switched to a jug of water. No 1 am awakening. Phew. Hoping 1-2 months of omeprazole and no coffee or diet coke will heal any duodenal ulcers.
> 
> Do you pack way early for your trip abroad? I got out my suitcase a month early and each day put one item in, in anticipation of that 4th fg back in Feb. I also counted down the days in my diary. That way I can savour the trip a lot longer as it is half way across the world!


Hahaha you’re just too cute @MissOrange! But yes I absolutely do that too! I pack way in advance (but maybe not a whole month!) out of excitement. My trip is only in end October, but I’ve already mentally categorised all the items I’ll be bringing along.

I was suprised to discover that London is 13 hours away from Seoul. I was already feeling sorry for myself for being 6 hours away (I’m in Singapore) but I’m feeling much better abt it now!


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday I tried the clear duct tape experiment and yes it improved my jawline by 10% or the equivalent of a £1400 threadlift that would last 6 months-1 year and may have dreaded complications. So now my options are drink 1.2-1.5 litres of water a day or apply a strip of duct tape under my chin for the same effect.

Here is a selfie taken in Amir's waiting room after gulping 1.5 litres of water then enquiring if I needed a FL. lol. He was a med student at St George's when I was an ENT surgeon there. To think I am 10 years older than he is but looked like a kid! See how fg loves water! Even my requested overfilled lids remain overfilled into the 7th month!

The next photo is yesterday morning first thing fresh faced with duct tape on and dehydrated. It makes my lower face look like it is hydrated. So I guess I could apply the tape until I reach 1.2-1.5 litres during the day and then peel off the tape? lol. Alas there is no dramatic v line with duct tape on me. Interestingly I look younger without makeup. No way do I look 52! My Brazilian hairdresser calls me the korean teenager. lol


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Hahaha you’re just too cute @MissOrange! But yes I absolutely do that too! I pack way in advance (but maybe not a whole month!) out of excitement. My trip is only in end October, but I’ve already mentally categorised all the items I’ll be bringing along.
> 
> I was surprised to discover that London is 13 hours away from Seoul. I was already feeling sorry for myself for being 6 hours away (I’m in Singapore) but I’m feeling much better abt it now!


I wonder how many hours from say NYC to Seoul? Glad to have made you feel better @heartbeep! Singapore is a very expensive city!

Imagine me flying back and forth in May, July and September 2016! I even took 16 hour economy flights to reduce the fare! Torture but desperate to fly back within 3 months for the fg top up. I think the DA fg did reabsorb each time back then as my entire face deflated when dehydrated whereas now when I am dehydrated my lids remain full and it is only my lower face that deflates. I know it does suggest another lower face top up may be needed but as you can see from the fully rehydrated face I had at Amir's, there is plenty of fat in my face. Plus I am really tired of the 12-16 hour flights each way so for now, a curtain fringe, water plus or minus the duct tape.


----------



## Asiapot

heartbeep said:


> Hi @Asiapot ! My first two grafts were from BK and my third was from JW. The first two grafts were completely re-absorbed, while I see some degree of retention with the third. So hoping the fourth will be my last!
> 
> I'll be in Seoul end October! I've already placed my deposit with mvp, but I'm also seriously considering Regen, as they seem to have quite good reviews for their fat grafts


Thanks Heatbeep.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is asking myself did spending over £22,000 (not including flights and hotels) over the past 2 years make me younger and better looking? Here is a collage with a screenshot from Sept 2015 in the top right (before rib rhino and chin shaving, 4 fgs, 2 lip lifts, revision des and ulthera) compared to the bottom right (taken in August 2018, 4 fat grafts later but before I knew dehydration causes dark circles and the fat cells to shrink, the skin to deflate and sagging emphasizing now a short chin post shaving). Now am forever needing to watch my fluid intake to prevent sagging after the lower face has been stretched from surgical manipulation inserting fat graft x 4) and the ones on the left were taken on Monday, 2 days ago after 1.66 litres of water to keep the fat graft in the lower face lifted and inflated. I have trained myself on how to gulp down 500 ml bottles of water in minutes. Sigh. I was not eating or drinking back in Feb 2016 after my dad died, lost a lot of weight and my face then looked sunken and old. All I needed was food and water to fill up my face again and perhaps not ps. So be warned that if you do get repeated fg to the lower face, you may need 1.5 litres of water a day to inflate it or be caught on camera with a sunken, saggy old face (bottom right). The top left and right photos show that ulthera does not last beyond 6 months as there seems to be no more lift in the picture on the left vs right without ulthera. I am back to wearing oversized glasses to detract from my large cheeks. That said my 90 degree side profile in my avatar is better than before ps.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is asking myself did spending over £22,000 (not including flights and hotels) over the past 2 years make me younger and better looking? Here is a collage with a screenshot from Sept 2015 in the top right (before rib rhino and chin shaving, 4 fgs, 2 lip lifts, revision des and ulthera) compared to the bottom right (taken in August 2018, 4 fat grafts later but before I knew dehydration causes dark circles and the fat cells to shrink, the skin to deflate and sagging emphasizing now a short chin post shaving). Now am forever needing to watch my fluid intake to prevent sagging after the lower face has been stretched from surgical manipulation inserting fat graft x 4) and the ones on the left were taken on Monday, 2 days ago after 1.66 litres of water to keep the fat graft in the lower face lifted and inflated. I have trained myself on how to gulp down 500 ml bottles of water in minutes. Sigh. I was not eating or drinking back in Feb 2016 after my dad died, lost a lot of weight and my face then looked sunken and old. All I needed was food and water to fill up my face again and perhaps not ps. So be warned that if you do get repeated fg to the lower face, you may need 1.5 litres of water a day to inflate it or be caught on camera with a sunken, saggy old face (bottom right). The top left and right photos show that ulthera does not last beyond 6 months as there seems to be no more lift in the picture on the left vs right without ulthera. I am back to wearing oversized glasses to detract from my large cheeks. That said my 90 degree side profile in my avatar is better than before ps.


How do you like them apples? SMAS facelift by Jacono, NYC but he costs around 50k. Even at 75 her neck and jawline is to be envied. Her skin is flawless. The facelift would not have given this amazing skin.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is asking myself did spending over £22,000 (not including flights and hotels) over the past 2 years make me younger and better looking? Here is a collage with a screenshot from Sept 2015 in the top right (before rib rhino and chin shaving, 4 fgs, 2 lip lifts, revision des and ulthera) compared to the bottom right (taken in August 2018, 4 fat grafts later but before I knew dehydration causes dark circles and the fat cells to shrink, the skin to deflate and sagging emphasizing now a short chin post shaving). Now am forever needing to watch my fluid intake to prevent sagging after the lower face has been stretched from surgical manipulation inserting fat graft x 4) and the ones on the left were taken on Monday, 2 days ago after 1.66 litres of water to keep the fat graft in the lower face lifted and inflated. I have trained myself on how to gulp down 500 ml bottles of water in minutes. Sigh. I was not eating or drinking back in Feb 2016 after my dad died, lost a lot of weight and my face then looked sunken and old. All I needed was food and water to fill up my face again and perhaps not ps. So be warned that if you do get repeated fg to the lower face, you may need 1.5 litres of water a day to inflate it or be caught on camera with a sunken, saggy old face (bottom right). The top left and right photos show that ulthera does not last beyond 6 months as there seems to be no more lift in the picture on the left vs right without ulthera. I am back to wearing oversized glasses to detract from my large cheeks. That said my 90 degree side profile in my avatar is better than before ps.


Hi @MissOrange ! In all honesty, I don't see much difference in your appearance from the photos! You look equally fantastic, both now and in the past. But that may be down to the large spectacles and makeup you're sporting in the photos - it's hard to see any differences! Perhaps you could post side-by-side photos of yourself post and pre-procedures without the makeup and glasses? Only if you're comfortable with doing so of course!


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> How do you like them apples? SMAS facelift by Jacono, NYC but he costs around 50k. Even at 75 her neck and jawline is to be envied. Her skin is flawless. The facelift would not have given this amazing skin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4190416


Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 that's an amazing result for 75 but can't afford the huge price tag! She's a lucky lady!


----------



## Gats

@MissOrange, I think lower face sagging is something that's inevitable due to aging, how confident are you that fat grafting definitely caused it? That is very concerning. Which mechanism of fg do you think caused it? Was it the stretching of the skin from overinjection of the fat, postop swelling, the breaking of the adhesion between the skin and fat when they used canula to inject the fat, all of the above?

I'm trying to do think of things I can do to reduce the likelihood of sagging when I get fg. If it's overinjection of fat, perhaps you can minimize that by asking doctor not to overfill, downside is you're more likely to need followup fgs. For swelling, there are measures you can take against it but I'm not sure anything can prevent swelling completely. If it's breaking of the adhesion, perhaps compression after surgery should be required like after they do lipo.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Hi @MissOrange ! In all honesty, I don't see much difference in your appearance from the photos! You look equally fantastic, both now and in the past. But that may be down to the large spectacles and makeup you're sporting in the photos - it's hard to see any differences! Perhaps you could post side-by-side photos of yourself post and pre-procedures without the makeup and glasses? Only if you're comfortable with doing so of course!


Hi @heartbeep you are so right! I just put together a collage of no make-up and no glasses b&a and wow! I guess if you don't have an inheritance to blow then make-up is like plastic surgery which I relied on in my 20s. No wonder no bf saw me without make-up ever else I would never have got wed and I was known for caking on heavy make-up! Gosh my forehead looks good with this long-lasting fg (onlyohad 2x) and my rib rhino with Mr Ion did add projection to my midget nose! And wow what sagging I had before ps that fg lifted and that old lip filler gave me trout lips on side profile. Thank goodness Dr Choi at mvp cut it out and gave me a nice cupid and Dr Seo's fg to my lids definitely lifted my droopy eyes. Wow and young lips with Dr Mills' liplift. Even the eyebrow tattoo I had in London makes a difference and maybe the ulthera is working after all?! Ok phew I CAN see an improvement. Must stop before beauty greed takes over! Must stop taking selfies!


----------



## Amali9099

MissOrange said:


> Hi @heartbeep you are so right! I just put together a collage of no make-up and no glasses b&a and wow! I guess if you don't have an inheritance to blow then make-up is like plastic surgery which I relied on in my 20s. No wonder no bf saw me without make-up ever else I would never have got wed and I was known for caking on heavy make-up! Gosh my forehead looks good with this long-lasting fg (onlyohad 2x) and my rib rhino with Mr Ion did add projection to my midget nose! And wow what sagging I had before ps that fg lifted and that old lip filler gave me trout lips on side profile. Thank goodness Dr Choi at mvp cut it out and gave me a nice cupid and Dr Seo's fg to my lids definitely lifted my droopy eyes. Wow and young lips with Dr Mills' liplift. Even the eyebrow tattoo I had in London makes a difference and maybe the ulthera is working after all?! Ok phew I CAN see an improvement. Must stop before beauty greed takes over! Must stop taking selfies!



Those are some seriously fantastic results. The left hand photos in particular are ... wow - from real housewife style fillers to subtle/fresh. Can I ask who did what to your face and how it got smaller/tighter?

I am making the last minute decision to fly to Korea within the first week of October instead of later. Just bought my flight today. Totally lost despite reading these subs and others.


----------



## gazoo

MissOrange said:


> Hi @heartbeep you are so right! I just put together a collage of no make-up and no glasses b&a and wow! I guess if you don't have an inheritance to blow then make-up is like plastic surgery which I relied on in my 20s. No wonder no bf saw me without make-up ever else I would never have got wed and I was known for caking on heavy make-up! Gosh my forehead looks good with this long-lasting fg (onlyohad 2x) and my rib rhino with Mr Ion did add projection to my midget nose! And wow what sagging I had before ps that fg lifted and that old lip filler gave me trout lips on side profile. Thank goodness Dr Choi at mvp cut it out and gave me a nice cupid and Dr Seo's fg to my lids definitely lifted my droopy eyes. Wow and young lips with Dr Mills' liplift. Even the eyebrow tattoo I had in London makes a difference and maybe the ulthera is working after all?! Ok phew I CAN see an improvement. Must stop before beauty greed takes over! Must stop taking selfies!



Looking at you I say put down the BEAUTY GREED and pick up the BEAUTY CELEBRATION. Amazing results. I would be too scared to mess up a good thing with anything further, were I you. 

My husband is a firm believer that fuller brows are more youthful. I tweezed my brows to thinness in the 90s and still find that look beautiful, but I get more compliments when I've penciled them fuller. I hate doing it, feels unnatural, but the feedback is pretty telling. Put down the tweezers ladies.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Hi @heartbeep you are so right! I just put together a collage of no make-up and no glasses b&a and wow! I guess if you don't have an inheritance to blow then make-up is like plastic surgery which I relied on in my 20s. No wonder no bf saw me without make-up ever else I would never have got wed and I was known for caking on heavy make-up! Gosh my forehead looks good with this long-lasting fg (onlyohad 2x) and my rib rhino with Mr Ion did add projection to my midget nose! And wow what sagging I had before ps that fg lifted and that old lip filler gave me trout lips on side profile. Thank goodness Dr Choi at mvp cut it out and gave me a nice cupid and Dr Seo's fg to my lids definitely lifted my droopy eyes. Wow and young lips with Dr Mills' liplift. Even the eyebrow tattoo I had in London makes a difference and maybe the ulthera is working after all?! Ok phew I CAN see an improvement. Must stop before beauty greed takes over! Must stop taking selfies!


Omg @MissOrange, now we can all see so clearly the difference in your face! You’re truly a triumph of cosmetic surgery. £22000 well spent! I don’t think you should hide such amazing results under curtain hair! Put your hair up and flaunt that gorge face girl! The fat grafts to your eyelids and face really made a key change I feel


----------



## MissOrange

Amali9099 said:


> Those are some seriously fantastic results. The left hand photos in particular are ... wow - from real housewife style fillers to subtle/fresh. Can I ask who did what to your face and how it got smaller/tighter?
> 
> I am making the last minute decision to fly to Korea within the first week of October instead of later. Just bought my flight today. Totally lost despite reading these subs and others.


Hi @Amali9099, sorry I missed your question. If you log on to this site from an ipad or laptop and look under each of my posts a list of all the surgeries, clinics and surgeons appear with dates. I don't know why it doesn't show up when reading from a smartphone. I like to give credit to all the plastic surgeons who helped me rejuvenate.

Good luck with your trip next month! Remember to do your research and find past patients to see lots of b+a's and 1 year follow ups.


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday and today I have been debating whether I should pluck out some of my frontal hair transplant. I only needed it at my side parting which had lost hair but the transplant was done all along my hairline which then lowered my hairline and when I compare my forehead to actress Han Ye Seul, mine looks too small. What do you think? Shall I get my tweezers out? I know my hair stylist said to me each time I pull a strand out I am throwing away £10 so want to know if this is what I need to do to look more like Han Ye Seul?

Or do I take her photo and try to get my brows tattoed straight? Really hard to get that shape in London as they insist on doing Western shaped brows. Sigh.

Or do I consider that I am 15 years older as she is 37 and I am 52, that I cannot look like her? But then why not?

Or do I fly to Regen for 1 cm reduction on each side of my zygoma to reduce the width as Dr Oh suggested? But that would cost $7k and flights and then $13k for a facelift if there is postop sagging.

Spot the differences in the 2 photos so I know what to do next to look like the most beautiful actress and model in korea.


----------



## Fortunecat

Nah. I think you shouldn't do anything as of now.
A high forehead associates with aging. That's where people start to bald, right?
As for your eyebrows, i guess its better to do them in Korea when you are there as they are more experienced in doing straight brows than westerners. Who knows, they (westerners) might screw up your eyebrows in an attempt to shape them like what you wanted.


----------



## Floweryflower

Hi missorange, what material(s) did you use for your rhinoplasty? Is silicone implants better for bridge or rib cartilage? And why? Thank you.


----------



## MissOrange

Floweryflower said:


> Hi missorange, what material(s) did you use for your rhinoplasty? Is silicone implants better for bridge or rib cartilage? And why? Thank you.


Hi @Floweryflower,

For primary rhino, go with ultrasoft silicone as it is cheaper (3-4 million won) or your own septum or ear cartilage. For revision rhino either exchange the silicone (longest lasting was 15 years in a pf member who flew from LA to korea to replace with new silicone) or as a last resort rib. Rib is extremely expensive (8-13 million won) and some clinics may push cadaver donor rib (but need to make sure dead person's rib was irradiated) but this absorbs faster as your immune system may reject it. Once you get rib, you are stuck only getting expensive rib for revisions. Rib extraction is extremely painful in korea vs minimal pain in the uk and us. And cartilage has memory so if the rib warps which happens in young patients then replaced rib may also warp again (I saw this in a Brit patient). Warping means the rib curves as it naturally wants to curve.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Yesterday and today I have been debating whether I should pluck out some of my frontal hair transplant. I only needed it at my side parting which had lost hair but the transplant was done all along my hairline which then lowered my hairline and when I compare my forehead to actress Han Ye Seul, mine looks too small. What do you think? Shall I get my tweezers out? I know my hair stylist said to me each time I pull a strand out I am throwing away £10 so want to know if this is what I need to do to look more like Han Ye Seul?
> 
> Or do I take her photo and try to get my brows tattoed straight? Really hard to get that shape in London as they insist on doing Western shaped brows. Sigh.
> 
> Or do I consider that I am 15 years older as she is 37 and I am 52, that I cannot look like her? But then why not?
> 
> Or do I fly to Regen for 1 cm reduction on each side of my zygoma to reduce the width as Dr Oh suggested? But that would cost $7k and flights and then $13k for a facelift if there is postop sagging.
> 
> Spot the differences in the 2 photos so I know what to do next to look like the most beautiful actress and model in korea.



No, no, NO!  Keep your tweezers away from your hair transplant and eyebrows!  You'll regret plucking and undoing the great lengths you went through surgery to battle thinning hair (sorry, just had to pun!).  You would be better off copying Hang Ye Seul's makeup tricks instead.

For example, your skin base seems too pale & matte, which overemphasises the width and flatness of the face.  I see that Hang Ye Seul used youthful subtle enhancers like a pinkish illuminating base BB cream all over, a high-glow cream on strategic areas (e.g. nose bridge & tip, cheekbones, forehead centre) and slightly warm contour bronzers down on sides of her temples, nose, cheeks and V-line to give an overall 3-D effect.  She also applies the pinkish BB cream all the way down the jowl area to the base of the neck for a seamless natural finish, because usually the face and neck are of contrasting colors.


----------



## Floweryflower

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Floweryflower,
> 
> For primary rhino, go with ultrasoft silicone as it is cheaper (3-4 million won) or your own septum or ear cartilage. For revision rhino either exchange the silicone (longest lasting was 15 years in a pf member who flew from LA to korea to replace with new silicone) or as a last resort rib. Rib is extremely expensive (8-13 million won) and some clinics may push cadaver donor rib (but need to make sure dead person's rib was irradiated) but this absorbs faster as your immune system may reject it. Once you get rib, you are stuck only getting expensive rib for revisions. Rib extraction is extremely painful in korea vs minimal pain in the uk and us. And cartilage has memory so if the rib warps which happens in young patients then replaced rib may also warp again (I saw this in a Brit patient). Warping means the rib curves as it naturally wants to curve.



Hello,

Isn’t silicone implant risky? I heard that you might get infection from it (even after few years).


----------



## MissOrange

Floweryflower said:


> Hello,
> 
> Isn’t silicone implant risky? I heard that you might get infection from it (even after few years).



It depends on the individual. If you are prone to infections like I am, then autologous ear or rib cartilage is better. Else you may be like the ones who have gone up to 15 years until the implant causes reddening of the skin. My tip rhinoplasty was without a graft or implant and lasted 17 years before the tip collapsed.


----------



## Floweryflower

MissOrange said:


> It depends on the individual. If you are prone to infections like I am, then autologous ear or rib cartilage is better. Else you may be like the ones who have gone up to 15 years until the implant causes reddening of the skin. My tip rhinoplasty was without a graft or implant and lasted 17 years before the tip collapsed.



How do you check whether you are prone to infections? 
I did tiplasty last year, so I’m considering rhino rev (w silicone implant). Your tip collapsed, is it because it’s not strong enough to hold?


----------



## MissOrange

Floweryflower said:


> How do you check whether you are prone to infections?
> I did tiplasty last year, so I’m considering rhino rev (w silicone implant). Your tip collapsed, is it because it’s not strong enough to hold?


You don't know until you have an infection. I have a habit of getting infections so I think my body rejects foreign implants over time. I think any rhino does not last a lifetime so 17 years for a no implant or graft tip rhino was good. Even if you had no rhino, aging makes the nose continue to grow and the tip droop.


----------



## Floweryflower

MissOrange said:


> You don't know until you have an infection. I have a habit of getting infections so I think my body rejects foreign implants over time. I think any rhino does not last a lifetime so 17 years for a no implant or graft tip rhino was good. Even if you had no rhino, aging makes the nose continue to grow and the tip droop.



What about people with eczema? Will they get infection due to it?


----------



## MissOrange

Floweryflower said:


> What about people with eczema? Will they get infection due to it?


I have eczema so my body's immune system is sensitive to synthetics. My premaxilla gortex implant got rejected and infected after 6 years. Everyone reacts differently to foreign body implants.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> I have eczema so my body's immune system is sensitive to synthetics. My premaxilla gortex implant got rejected and infected after 6 years. Everyone reacts differently to foreign body implants.





heartbeep said:


> @MissOrange, that sounds v uncomfortable! maybe you could consider returning for a top up for your lower face! Then we could do it together



Hey everyone on the topic of FG. I saved this article that JW presented at a PS convention. I hope this never happens to me. I have seen elsewhere, where the fat has moved down one's face, not just the eyes!
	

		
			
		

		
	




*How to treat and prevent the grafted fat comes down to eyelids?*

As you can see from the picture there are fat has been come down. This patient had fat grafting at another clinic 5months ago and had side effects of fat has been coming down. This is not common but it can happen! we call that “Periorbital lipogranuloma after facial autologous fat injection”.

Recently Dr. Hong Dae, Kang from JW Plastic Surgery Center Korea who are specialist in Eyelid surgery, anti-aging, and fat grafting presented to overseas plastic surgeons at APS (Aesthetic Plastic Surgery) 2017 from COEX, Seoul, Korea on April 2nd.

Nowadays many plastic surgery centers do Fat grafting (fat injection) to volume restoration. Because it is easy to harvest, low morbidity, non-allergic compared to synthetic fillers. But sometimes there are some complications from fat grafting (fat injection) such as edema, lump, irregularity, migration, lipogranuloma, etc.,  

Definition of Lipogranuloma is a “rare reactive inflammatory process in the dermis and subcutis” which it means injected fat could come down to the dermis area. 

Why does it happen?

1. Exogenous mechanism: Foreign body reaction to lipid / oil-like substances such as paraffin and silicones
2. Endogenous mechanism: Lipid degeneration due to infection, trauma, extremes of temperature, or allergic reaction.

Upper / Lower eyelid is surrounded by superficial galea and deep galea (divided into anterior and posterior also covered with galea fat pad) and there are some kind of paths that it connects to each other.

That is why we should inject the fresh fat instead of frozen fats. There are many places that uses frozen fats for their second session but that will raise the rate of Lipogranuloma, because frozen fats will disappear when fresh fats frozen under negative 20 degrees due to their intracellular ice formation and osmotic stress and loses of 92.7% of metabolic activity.

This patient had Fat grafting 5 months ago at another clinic and had “periorbital lipogranuloma”

*With this patient Dr. Hong Dae Kang performed Lower eyelid mass excision and Lower Blepharoplasty at the same time. The left part of lower eyelid seems to have large lipogranuloma on the orbital fat area.*


----------



## MissOrange

Floweryflower said:


> Hi missorange, what material(s) did you use for your rhinoplasty? Is silicone implants better for bridge or rib cartilage? And why? Thank you.


Hi @Floweryflower, I missed the first part of your question. Apologies. I had rib rhinoplasty in the UK Feb 2016 and then reoperated on in May 2016 as the rib had shifted during a bad infection/abscess. I only discovered Korea in May 2016 after both my rhinos. As I have had 3 rhinos I am stopping. I have chatted with and/or met ladies who had a 4th rhino and it needed revising as rib has memory and warps again and/or they were still not happy with the results. Rib is not perfect as it absorbs if too calcified in older ladies (I can feel rippling along the length of my bridge already) or warps from cartilage memory (curves) in younger ladies on top of its huge cost. Just meeting and seeing a lady with warped rib cartilage in her nose scared me off any further rhino. She faced an awful dilemma of either living with a curved short nose, trying a different ps or getting free revision from the same surgeon. She wanted so badly to get back her original long nose. Because there is no guarantee of how your nose will end up even with photo morphs, only do rhino if deformed in my opinion.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Hey everyone on the topic of FG. I saved this article that JW presented at a PS convention. I hope this never happens to me. I have seen elsewhere, where the fat has moved down one's face, not just the eyes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4204552
> 
> 
> *How to treat and prevent the grafted fat comes down to eyelids?*
> 
> As you can see from the picture there are fat has been come down. This patient had fat grafting at another clinic 5months ago and had side effects of fat has been coming down. This is not common but it can happen! we call that “Periorbital lipogranuloma after facial autologous fat injection”.
> 
> Recently Dr. Hong Dae, Kang from JW Plastic Surgery Center Korea who are specialist in Eyelid surgery, anti-aging, and fat grafting presented to overseas plastic surgeons at APS (Aesthetic Plastic Surgery) 2017 from COEX, Seoul, Korea on April 2nd.
> 
> Nowadays many plastic surgery centers do Fat grafting (fat injection) to volume restoration. Because it is easy to harvest, low morbidity, non-allergic compared to synthetic fillers. But sometimes there are some complications from fat grafting (fat injection) such as edema, lump, irregularity, migration, lipogranuloma, etc.,
> 
> Definition of Lipogranuloma is a “rare reactive inflammatory process in the dermis and subcutis” which it means injected fat could come down to the dermis area.
> 
> Why does it happen?
> 
> 1. Exogenous mechanism: Foreign body reaction to lipid / oil-like substances such as paraffin and silicones
> 2. Endogenous mechanism: Lipid degeneration due to infection, trauma, extremes of temperature, or allergic reaction.
> 
> Upper / Lower eyelid is surrounded by superficial galea and deep galea (divided into anterior and posterior also covered with galea fat pad) and there are some kind of paths that it connects to each other.
> 
> That is why we should inject the fresh fat instead of frozen fats. There are many places that uses frozen fats for their second session but that will raise the rate of Lipogranuloma, because frozen fats will disappear when fresh fats frozen under negative 20 degrees due to their intracellular ice formation and osmotic stress and loses of 92.7% of metabolic activity.
> 
> This patient had Fat grafting 5 months ago at another clinic and had “periorbital lipogranuloma”
> 
> *With this patient Dr. Hong Dae Kang performed Lower eyelid mass excision and Lower Blepharoplasty at the same time. The left part of lower eyelid seems to have large lipogranuloma on the orbital fat area.*


Thank you for this @SheOnlyLooks25. I have a small lipoma lump in the middle of my forehead only noticeable at certain angles and lighting as a complication. And another lady has a more visible lipoma lump on her eyelid from another clinic. It made me realise that even fg has complications and has scared me off any fg top ups for now. The law of odds means the more you have ps the higher the odds that eventually you may get a complication.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post follows on @SheOnlyLooks25 's post on fat graft complications. I thought it useful to share my fat graft lipoma lump on my forehead I got from fg earlier this year. The photo was taken yesterday so has not disappeared after 7 months. The good news is that it is only visible if I try to raise my eyebrows or look up but if I do, this is the visible fat lump in the middle of my forehead along with 2 forehead wrinkles (perhaps time for a botox top up). If I wear my hair as a curtain fringe then I don't have to worry about the lump popping out if I look up at everyone who is taller. Sigh.

The next photo is a selfie from yesterday with no frowning, raising of brows or looking up. Thank goodness the lump is not visible on my resting facial expression. I used to surgically remove fatty lipomas when I was a surgeon so am not holding my breath that it will absorb over time. Sigh.

The slight nasolabial crease shadows suggest I am due radiesse dermal filler soon as the filler dissolves over 2-4 months and does not last 12-18 months as you may be told. The other option would be paranasal silicon implants but this would cost 7 million won and may risk getting an infection or rejection so for me it has been radiesse dermal fillers for over a decade. I see many older ladies who neglect the nasolabial folds and the crease then deepens and ages them (see stock photo). It is an easy enough fix with dermal fillers with immediate results and no down time.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's second post is another reminder of the rampant fake reviews flooding forums, kakao groups, instagram, youtube and plastic surgery review websites, in fact any social media outlet that may potentially be read by plastic surgery clients. A friend passed on this YouTube clip exposing this industry. 

It is really hard for people to tell if they are reading a genuine patient review or a fake review written by clinic staff to boost traffic. We even hear of fake hotel reviews on TripAdvisor and my husband fell for one with rave reviews and we ended up in the worst hotel imaginable which had zero guests on site and looked like a 1 star motel! Did I warn readers? Nope as the hotel said they would refund me if I left and kept quiet. We got back in our car and drove off as fast as we could. I berated my husband for not doing his research properly. Poor man.

So back to plastic surgery reviews. Be wary of "sock puppets". This method is a group of clinic or pr staff chatting on a particular clinic as members of a forum or in a kakao group. They might start by saying I am going to korea for v line next year or some date months away that never happens and say they are thinking of clinic A. Puppet 2 chimes in and says oh I had v line at clinic A. Puppet 1 says how was it? Can you share a picture? Puppet 2 says sure but only by pm (private message) and of course there is no picture sent or they send a stock photo of a model off the web or from a chinese forum like soyoung. Puppet 3 chimes in and says oh wow you look amazing (pretending to have seen the photo) and says I have booked a consultation there. Can't wait. So excited. The consultant (name) is really nice. And so on until there is a huge buzz created on the thread or kakao chat about Clinic A and real people fooled by the scam start booking consultations and surgeries at clinic A and then wonder why they got botched, a bad result or surgical complications but as a foreigner they do not speak Korean and are reluctant to seek medicolegal action and just fly home ashamed, depressed and in credit card debt of $10,000+ and lose complete trust in korean plastic surgery. The shame is so great they refuse to share their botched result photos publicly to warn others. Clinic A then wins yet again. Until a brave patient posts her botched nose or v line surgery photos and tells her story to warn others...I call them brave as the clinic staff posing as members of a forum, site or kk group may attack that real patient and mock them making them feel even worse! Yet these real patients have stood their ground and for that I applaud them, @krod2017 and @NadineP who shared their botched results from tlps and april31, respectively, with photos on this site.

A shill review is clinic or pr staff writing a fake review of their plastic surgery experience. I would suggest you do a reverse image search to see where the image came from as sometimes they borrow photos of models on other sites like soyoung and pretend it is them. Make sure you see lots of photos...before, bruised and swollen postop, after etc. and ask to see 1 year follow up photos as often times results may look great but be shortlived and only last a month!

At the end of the day go with your gut instinct at consultation (I saw a korean girl in tears in the waiting room at gng), watch out for bait and switch (luring you with cheap quotes or specials but increasing the price in person- my quote at gng went up from 5 million to 18 million for revision rhino so I ran away), or bait and switch doctors (you ask for Dr X but are told on arrival to korea Dr X is not available can you see Dr Y) and always find real patients to either meet with or chat with over a long period of time (up to a year) with lots of surgical photos so you see them in all stages of healing ideally and remember a clinic can have lots of surgeons and only one who is great so make sure you choose the best surgeon in the clinic and not accept another surgeon in the same clinic which is why on my surgical consent form I cross off assistants and only allow my chosen surgeon to operate on me.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on hairlines and foreheads. I noticed that Han Ye Seul has a comparatively larger forehead which then makes her lower facial features appear smaller. I started studying faces and a small forehead makes the mid-lower face appear larger. So I reached for my tweezers and started plucking out my hair transplant from the sides and a cm from the top to see more of my forehead. I remember thinking at the time that they were putting in too much hair (4000 follicles) and making my forehead look unnaturally small especially on the sides 4 years ago but said nothing as Brits rarely speak up. Here is a comparison of a before and after readjusting my side hairline back to its former natural line. My face now appears more in proportion and my waste bin is full of hair!


----------



## viamala

Dear @MissOrange,

I have just finished reading your whole thread. I would like to say, thank you so much for sharing your experience here. I learned so much more about plastic surgery from this thread than all other sources I scoured. I feel so lucky that I stumbled upon your account on purseforum.

I have several questions :

1. Would you have any advice on how to determine what procedures will improve our face and which ones that we don't need? I have been talking to several clinics through kakao, but I suspect the consultants are just trying to push as much procedures as possible to make profit. I tried to use facetouchup app but I found it cannot edit photos for specific procedures. If only I have a friend who can assess my face and make genuine recommendation... but unfortunately all of my friends know nothing about PS.

2. I remember that you mentioned Romian as a good option for facial contouring. May I ask its price range? Do you know any other good clinics for facial contouring that don't charge very high prices?

3. Will placing a deposit before face-to-face consultation definitely make us lose bargaining power? I hope this is not the case because I don't have much choice as I will be going during peak season.

4. Is the bullhorn lip lift that you got from Dr Caroline Mills the same as philtrum reduction ? several Korean clinics offer philtrum reduction (golden view, Hyundai mihak, deesse) but I cannot find out if it is bullhorn or vermillion or a totally different procedure.

5. is it possible to shorten the philtrum without making the upper lift bigger than the lower lip?


----------



## MissOrange

viamala said:


> Dear @MissOrange,
> 
> I have just finished reading your whole thread. I would like to say, thank you so much for sharing your experience here. I learned so much more about plastic surgery from this thread than all other sources I scoured. I feel so lucky that I stumbled upon your account on purseforum.
> 
> I have several questions :
> 
> 1. Would you have any advice on how to determine what procedures will improve our face and which ones that we don't need? I have been talking to several clinics through kakao, but I suspect the consultants are just trying to push as much procedures as possible to make profit. I tried to use facetouchup app but I found it cannot edit photos for specific procedures. If only I have a friend who can assess my face and make genuine recommendation... but unfortunately all of my friends know nothing about PS.
> 
> 2. I remember that you mentioned Romian as a good option for facial contouring. May I ask its price range? Do you know any other good clinics for facial contouring that don't charge very high prices?
> 
> 3. Will placing a deposit before face-to-face consultation definitely make us lose bargaining power? I hope this is not the case because I don't have much choice as I will be going during peak season.
> 
> 4. Is the bullhorn lip lift that you got from Dr Caroline Mills the same as philtrum reduction ? several Korean clinics offer philtrum reduction (golden view, Hyundai mihak, deesse) but I cannot find out if it is bullhorn or vermillion or a totally different procedure.
> 
> 5. is it possible to shorten the philtrum without making the upper lift bigger than the lower lip?


Hi @viamala,

Thank you for reading my entire thread! That is quite an accomplishment and would make you an expert! I know how you feel. It is really hard to find friends you can meet f2f to give you an honest opinion as to whether or not you need a ps procedure. To determine this on your own you can apply the golden ratio rules. Somewhere in this thread I discuss how to take the measurements for height of head vs width, 1.61 and making sure the forehead to brow is the same length as the brow to nose base and then a little less from the base of nose to bottom of chin for an asian look or equal for a Caucasian look. This is part of the reason why I was plucking part of my hair transplant so the length of my forehead would match the distance between my brow and base of nose.

2. I only knew of Romian because one real patient went there but I lost touch with her afterwards so cannot say anything about the results. I think it was around $10k for zygoma and v line. Other clinics to look at would be EU dental, TFD and Regen. TLPS looks good on instagram but one real patient got chin numbness (injury to the mental nerve) with a dramatic v line and another skin sagging under her chin. GNG tends to be extremely conservative v lines as in hardly noticeable, very expensive and I heard Choi has left and been replaced by a younger surgeon as they are really an ENT hospital.

3. Only place a deposit if you are 100% sure you want Dr X at clinic Y. Else you may be fighting to get the deposit back if you change your mind and go elsewhere. I had a real fight to get my $500 deposit back from Cinderella in 2016 and was paid in won in person so lost some in the exchange.

4. Yes bullhorn liplift is the same as philtrum reduction. Dr Mills measures and asks you how much shorter you want your philtrum. But bear in mind surgery is not a precise science so the amount trimmed can vary up to 2 mms either way and remember to get kenalog injection for the keloid scar and do not have your nasal sill cut into else it will distort your nostrils.

Korean clinics do the vermilion approach lip lift/ philtrum reduction which in my personal experience did not even last 6 months as it trims only skin and not muscle.

The upper lip gets everted with bullhorn liplift/philtrum reduction so ends up bigger. Vermilion ie cutting into the lip tends not to result in a bigger upper lip after the swelling abates but as I said the result is shortlived (the philtrum sags and looks long again) so not worth spending between 2.5 and 5 million won depending on which korean clinic you choose. Deessee is very expensive and a real patient went there but more for a cupid bow and upturned smile corners.


----------



## viamala

I see! So the philtrum reduction Korean clinics offer is vermillion lip lift. I remember your review about vermillion lift at MVP which is not worth the money at all.
I will try to measure my face according to the golden ratio. Thanks so much @MissOrange !


----------



## HashtagGoals

Hello @MissOrange! I love all your posts you are seriously the most knowledgeable and open person on this forum about the real deals of ps!! I have a question.. i am interested in getting forehead fg in Korea this October and want fat extracted from my inner thighs.. will they give me a compression garment? Do I need one? Can I wear leggings? Sorry for so many questions and ty in advance! I asked here instead of pming you because I’m sure it’ll be valuable info for others in the future~


----------



## touni27

MissOrange said:


> People are messaging me where I had my surgeries. If you log on to this site from an ipad or computer, under each of my posts it shows the names of each of my plastic surgeons and what they did for me.
> 
> Twenty years ago it was Cindy Jackson who discovered how to look natural and younger with plastic surgery. I bought her book and paid £200 to meet with her to find out what I needed and who did her surgeries. She said change my hairstyle, change my glasses and get a mid-lower facelift. I was in my 30s! Instead I had dermal fillers which is like a liquid facelift and still wonder when am I getting a lower FL as I am now in my 50s and Cindy has already had a FL and looks 20s in her 60s.
> 
> I am sharing my journey and surgeons here for free! Just use an ipad or computer as their mobile site does not show my footnote message giving credit to all my plastic surgeons ovet 900 times!




Hey MissOrange,

Did you remove your footnote? I can't seem to see it anymore under your posts 

Thanks!


----------



## MissOrange

HashtagGoals said:


> Hello @MissOrange! I love all your posts you are seriously the most knowledgeable and open person on this forum about the real deals of ps!! I have a question.. i am interested in getting forehead fg in Korea this October and want fat extracted from my inner thighs.. will they give me a compression garment? Do I need one? Can I wear leggings? Sorry for so many questions and ty in advance! I asked here instead of pming you because I’m sure it’ll be valuable info for others in the future~


Hi @HashtagGoals, thank you for your compliment. It is nice to be appreciated for all the time I spend freely sharing and giving advice. To help forehead fat graft last, it may be worth getting botox beforehand if you have wrinkles as this prevents foregeaf movement and it seems the more you move an area of the face the quicker the fat graft absorbs.

At DAPRS they gave me nothing for my bruised thighs after inner thigh lipo to harvest fg for my face. I was shocked as compression bandages are important to reduce swelling and bruising and the pain from all the bruising. I even complained to the surgeon Dr Kim that even for fat taken for upper lid fg at mvp 2 months earlier that mvp bandaged up my thighs. So the answer is it depends on the clinic or hospital. Some cut corners and give you no bandages and only a prescription in korean to take to any chemist and get your painkillers and antibiotics and others like mvp give you all your meds on discharge for free.

You could ask the clinic on whatsapp or kakao whether they will bandage your donor thighs, whether they will only take from one thigh (I now have very uneven thighs as DA took all from my already thinner left thigh for my third fg there!) and whether meds are included or will you simply get a korean prescription and have no idea what it says as all the pharmacists I went into spoke no English. 

If they provide no bandages, bring 2 roll of bandages and safety pins and also wear tight jeans to help reduce the swelling and expedite healing of the extensive bruising down your entire inner thighs. The pain from the bruising feels like you got hit by a car in your thighs and once I awoke briefly and saw the surgeon vigorously liposuctioning my left inner thigh! It made me realise why my thighs get so bruised after fg and it is hard to walk afterwards.


----------



## MissOrange

touni27 said:


> Hey MissOrange,
> 
> Did you remove your footnote? I can't seem to see it anymore under your posts
> 
> Thanks!


Hi @touni27, yes I took the list of clinics, surgeons and procedures off my footnote signature as I do not wish to seem to be advertising or promoting any clinics after the silence and lack of official statement following the death of a patient we assume from an undiagnosed heart condition at a clinic I had frequented for some of my surgeries. I feel that out of respect for the deceased who was still a surgeon and clinic's patient, the clinic should have issued a statement of condolence, sadness and explanation instead of appear to have covered it up and operated like business as usual. I would hope that had I died during a plastic surgery operation my doctor and clinic would have expressed sadness, apology if warranted, how to prevent this from happening again (ie invest in a defibrillator $1200 if the clinic lacked one) and a full explanation of events publicly for its future patients and to show it has a moral conscience.


----------



## HashtagGoals

MissOrange said:


> Hi @HashtagGoals, thank you for your compliment. It is nice to be appreciated for all the time I spend freely sharing and giving advice. To help forehead fat graft last, it may be worth getting botox beforehand if you have wrinkles as this prevents foregeaf movement and it seems the more you move an area of the face the quicker the fat graft absorbs.
> 
> At DAPRS they gave me nothing for my bruised thighs after inner thigh lipo to harvest fg for my face. I was shocked as compression bandages are important to reduce swelling and bruising and the pain from all the bruising. I even complained to the surgeon Dr Kim that even for fat taken for upper lid fg at mvp 2 months earlier that mvp bandaged up my thighs. So the answer is it depends on the clinic or hospital. Some cut corners and give you no bandages and only a prescription in korean to take to any chemist and get your painkillers and antibiotics and others like mvp give you all your meds on discharge for free.
> 
> You could ask the clinic on whatsapp or kakao whether they will bandage your donor thighs, whether they will only take from one thigh (I now have very uneven thighs as DA took all from my already thinner left thigh for my third fg there!) and whether meds are included or will you simply get a korean prescription and have no idea what it says as all the pharmacists I went into spoke no English.
> 
> If they provide no bandages, bring 2 roll of bandages and safety pins and also wear tight jeans to help reduce the swelling and expedite healing of the extensive bruising down your entire inner thighs. The pain from the bruising feels like you got hit by a car in your thighs and once I awoke briefly and saw the surgeon vigorously liposuctioning my left inner thigh! It made me realise why my thighs get so bruised after fg and it is hard to walk afterwards.



Thank you for your in depth response!! Literally answered all my burning questions. I have been so confused about why no one talks about compression garments while getting fg in korea when the majority of US surgeons who do any form of lipo talk about the necessity of compression garments! I don’t have any wrinkles on my forehead (yet) and want to getting a slight rounded effect (like yours!!!) I don’t move my forehead much at all so hopefully only a little gets reabsorbed. I’d be satisfied even if 50% reabsorbs.


----------



## MissOrange

HashtagGoals said:


> Thank you for your in depth response!! Literally answered all my burning questions. I have been so confused about why no one talks about compression garments while getting fg in korea when the majority of US surgeons who do any form of lipo talk about the necessity of compression garments! I don’t have any wrinkles on my forehead (yet) and want to getting a slight rounded effect (like yours!!!) I don’t move my forehead much at all so hopefully only a little gets reabsorbed. I’d be satisfied even if 50% reabsorbs.


Hi @HashtagGoals you are right! When I had tummy and thigh lipo in the uk they fitted me with a tight compression garment which I have kept. I completely forgot I had it. I should have packed it for all my fgs in Korea as the bandages are not as tight as the garment but then I used tight jeans over the bandages.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @HashtagGoals you are right! When I had tummy and thigh lipo in the uk they fitted me with a tight compression garment which I have kept. I completely forgot I had it. I should have packed it for all my fgs in Korea as the bandages are not as tight as the garment but then I used tight jeans over the bandages.


How's your scars from abdominal liposuction? Have they faded or almost invisible?


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> How's your scars from abdominal liposuction? Have they faded or almost invisible?


Hi @Fortunecat, I never looked for scars until now! Okay I just looked for scars near my belly button or groin where the abdomen and thigh lipos were done or any scars from the fg lipo donor sites. Nope none seen. The cuts made to access under the skin are very small nicks so they heal as if you had a paper cut to your finger and only needed 1 single stitch per cut. The only surgical scars left on my body (from multiple BAs and complications) are under my breasts and those scars are linear, wide and darkly pigmented but thankfully not visible under these pendulous E cups! Maybe a few fat cells remained after all in my chest and they are expanding after lipo to other areas!


----------



## MissOrange

@HashtagGoals here is my bruised and painful thigh taken when I got home to the uk post my fg at daprs in April 2017. You can see the seam of my jeans leaving a line on my thigh as I used jeans as a compression garment after receiving no bandage from DA clinic. And yes it was as painful as it looks and Dr Kim had only taken donor fg from my skinnier left thigh instead of both for thigh symmetry. Sigh. Expect the bruising to take 2-3 weeks to go away.


----------



## HashtagGoals

MissOrange said:


> @HashtagGoals here is my bruised and painful thigh taken when I got home to the uk post my fg at daprs in April 2017. You can see the seam of my jeans leaving a line on my thigh as I used jeans as a compression garment after receiving no bandage from DA clinic. And yes it was as painful as it looks and Dr Kim had only taken donor fg from my skinnier left thigh instead of both for thigh symmetry. Sigh. Expect the bruising to take 2-3 weeks to go away.



Omg my husband will faint when he sees my legs like this!!!!!


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> @HashtagGoals here is my bruised and painful thigh taken when I got home to the uk post my fg at daprs in April 2017. You can see the seam of my jeans leaving a line on my thigh as I used jeans as a compression garment after receiving no bandage from DA clinic. And yes it was as painful as it looks and Dr Kim had only taken donor fg from my skinnier left thigh instead of both for thigh symmetry. Sigh. Expect the bruising to take 2-3 weeks to go away.


Oh my! That is very bad bruising. The doctor was very rough, i guess.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Fortunecat said:


> Oh my! That is very bad bruising. The doctor was very rough, i guess.


Have you ever seen videos of people getting lipo? It is not a gentle procedure, the doctors have to work very hard and fast. Also some people are bruisers and will look way worst than others


----------



## Fortunecat

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Have you ever seen videos of people getting lipo? It is not a gentle procedure, the doctors have to work very hard and fast. Also some people are bruisers and will look way worst than others


Yes, i watched those videos. Thats why i am still contemplating liposuction! Ahahaha.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Oh my! That is very bad bruising. The doctor was very rough, i guess.


Yup. Then I got my last fg at mvp and my thigh bruising was a lot less and my face also less bruised and swollen so I could immediately tell the surgeon was more gentle than the surgeon at DA.


----------



## Fortunecat

This girl had abdominal liposuction done at 365mc. I have never seen this kind of bruising before. I went to naver and searched for more photos of liposuction done at 365mc. And it seems that almost all had bruising like that. Is this normal?


----------



## Fortunecat

Despite the bruises, it seems that all managed to heal after 2 weeks from those blogs that i read from Naver. All that i read, are full of praises for 365mc. Despite being mini liposuction, their abdominal areas are flat after the liposuction. Overall, it sounds good to me. I am just scared off by the bruising part. I am such a scaredy cat. Lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Despite the bruises, it seems that all managed to heal after 2 weeks from those blogs that i read from Naver. All that i read, are full of praises for 365mc. Despite being mini liposuction, their abdominal areas are flat after the liposuction. Overall, it sounds good to me. I am just scared off by the bruising part. I am such a scaredy cat. Lol.


@Fortunecat buy a compression garment and bring with if the clinic does not supply one. Also take arnica pills and apply arnica cream over the bruises. You could just keep your compression garment on the whole time for 2 weeks then you don't have to see the bruises except when you bathe...have a bubble bath with lots of bubbles. I must say my tummy remains flat after 2 tummy lipos a decade ago so think positively that it is just 2-3 weeks of bruising and the bruises change colours so are not always purple and I am pleased I got tummy lipo. My excuse was having 3 babies in a row. If you gey traditional lipo you will see the results instantly when you get home. If you choose vaser lipo you go home and see that your tummy is hard and swollen with fluid! And are told the fluid absorbs on its own over time. That was the longest wait for me to see the results. I much prefer traditional as I saw a 6 pack instantly and looked like a ballerina's body!

I  am back to obsessing about zygoma reduction. My cheekbones are really wide at 15 cms. That is why I wear cosmetic glasses as this creates a more 3d look and masks my flat face and the narrower width of the frames give the illusion my face width is smaller. Does anyone have zygomas as wide as mine? Today my hair stylist acknowledged that my face is wide. She has a beautiful 3D small Caucasian face! I told her I wish we could trade faces! lol. Sigh. She said Brazil is very cheap where £1000 uk is worth £5000 there but I am thinking only Dr Oh at Regen.


----------



## Gats

@MissOrange, for NL lines I know you've said you inject filler yourself. Which specific areas of the face do you inject to? I know injectors will not just chase wrinkles by injecting into the wrinkle only, for example filling the cheek has the side effect of lifting the skin below it so that could reduce NL lines (maybe that is why many people get overfilled there?). I'm curious how you treat it.






Bigger version of above pic: https://ibb.co/mkNSTe

Also did you have fat injected into zone 11? How is survival in that area?


----------



## HashtagGoals

Sigh. If there was no chance of complications I would do it all. Cheek, jaw, make face shorter thing (sorry only know the korean term. Haha) hate my long flat Asian face with cheekbones way too wide my eyes look like they need to move further apart to make my face look more balanced.... someone come up with this surgery please. Sarah sanders needs it more than I do tho.....


----------



## Fortunecat

HashtagGoals said:


> Sigh. If there was no chance of complications I would do it all. Cheek, jaw, make face shorter thing (sorry only know the korean term. Haha) hate my long flat Asian face with cheekbones way too wide my eyes look like they need to move further apart to make my face look more balanced.... someone come up with this surgery please. Sarah sanders needs it more than I do tho.....


Most Asians have this problem. As i grow older, i am okay with it though. Look at the bright side! Maybe because i did not do anything to my face structure, my fats are still intact. Hence, I do not have any nasolabial fold lines.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> @Fortunecat buy a compression garment and bring with if the clinic does not supply one. Also take arnica pills and apply arnica cream over the bruises. You could just keep your compression garment on the whole time for 2 weeks then you don't have to see the bruises except when you bathe...have a bubble bath with lots of bubbles. I must say my tummy remains flat after 2 tummy lipos a decade ago so think positively that it is just 2-3 weeks of bruising and the bruises change colours so are not always purple and I am pleased I got tummy lipo. My excuse was having 3 babies in a row. If you gey traditional lipo you will see the results instantly when you get home. If you choose vaser lipo you go home and see that your tummy is hard and swollen with fluid! And are told the fluid absorbs on its own over time. That was the longest wait for me to see the results. I much prefer traditional as I saw a 6 pack instantly and looked like a ballerina's body!
> 
> I  am back to obsessing about zygoma reduction. My cheekbones are really wide at 15 cms. That is why I wear cosmetic glasses as this creates a more 3d look and masks my flat face and the narrower width of the frames give the illusion my face width is smaller. Does anyone have zygomas as wide as mine? Today my hair stylist acknowledged that my face is wide. She has a beautiful 3D small Caucasian face! I told her I wish we could trade faces! lol. Sigh. She said Brazil is very cheap where £1000 uk is worth £5000 there but I am thinking only Dr Oh at Regen.


Hi @MissOrange! Just to share with you, I used to have extremely wide zygoma too, and I had them reduced by a surgeon in Singapore. While I wouldn't recommend my surgeon (he's waaaaay too overpriced), I must say that it was one of the most gratifying procedures I've had. My face looked smaller, more 3D, and also more younger and more feminine without the harsh angles of the wide zygoma. 

I'd say this would be a procedure that would make more sense for you than a facelift - save that for when you're 70!


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Hi @MissOrange! Just to share with you, I used to have extremely wide zygoma too, and I had them reduced by a surgeon in Singapore. While I wouldn't recommend my surgeon (he's waaaaay too overpriced), I must say that it was one of the most gratifying procedures I've had. My face looked smaller, more 3D, and also more younger and more feminine without the harsh angles of the wide zygoma.
> 
> I'd say this would be a procedure that would make more sense for you than a facelift - save that for when you're 70!


Thanks @heartbeep,

I look at my chin shaving and think what a simple op that was where Mr Lucian Ion just shaved the bone through my mouth with no pain or swelling and the results took my side profile from a 2 to a 10 for £3k. I wore my head bandage night and day for weeks to prevent sagging and help the tissues reattach to the chin bone.

I wish zygoma reduction was as safe and simple as then finally my front face would not look so wide. I am hesitant as a uk max facial surgeon said no and that my face would sag and I would need fat grafting forever and how the cheekbones are needed to hold up the midface. I was told on kk by mvp that my big cheeks were due to muscle and not bone? And the only surgeon to say yes he could reduce by 1 cm on each side was Dr Oh at Regen who I met and would pick if I was not so scared of how my sensitive body would react to foreign body metal plate and screws. He did say he could remove a year later so this would mean 2 trips to korea. A patient at gng who had it done told me no I should not get zygoma reduction due to sagging at my age. Sigh. I did ask Dr Oh and he said his technique of cutting and moving the zygoma and maxilla inward would lead to no sagging and no more need for dermal fillers in my nasolabial folds so like you mentioned more of a 3d face. Cash price was 7 million won for this 1 hour operation else it was 8 million won but then add flights and hotels for 2.5-3 weeks but he showed me postops at 1 week and they looked amazing!

I may be brave at age 60. I told my hair stylist I was too scared to try blonde highlights she said would make my hair blonde instantly and not orange for £60. So I worked out blowdries at £22 a week x a year is say £1100 per year to cover my forehead and sides of my face vs £7000 for zygoma reduction op and flights and hotels or maybe £10k if I include the return to remove the plate and screws.

May I ask you @heartbeep how wide your face was preop and how many cms wide it is now? You must be over the moon with your small 3d face.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @heartbeep,
> 
> I look at my chin shaving and think what a simple op that was where Mr Lucian Ion just shaved the bone through my mouth with no pain or swelling and the results took my side profile from a 2 to a 10 for £3k. I wore my head bandage night and day for weeks to prevent sagging and help the tissues reattach to the chin bone.
> 
> I wish zygoma reduction was as safe and simple as then finally my front face would not look so wide. I am hesitant as a uk max facial surgeon said no and that my face would sag and I would need fat grafting forever and how the cheekbones are needed to hold up the midface. I was told on kk by mvp that my big cheeks were due to muscle and not bone? And the only surgeon to say yes he could reduce by 1 cm on each side was Dr Oh at Regen who I met and would pick if I was not so scared of how my sensitive body would react to foreign body metal plate and screws. He did say he could remove a year later so this would mean 2 trips to korea. A patient at gng who had it done told me no I should not get zygoma reduction due to sagging at my age. Sigh. I did ask Dr Oh and he said his technique of cutting and moving the zygoma and maxilla inward would lead to no sagging and no more need for dermal fillers in my nasolabial folds so like you mentioned more of a 3d face. Cash price was 7 million won for this 1 hour operation else it was 8 million won but then add flights and hotels for 2.5-3 weeks but he showed me postops at 1 week and they looked amazing!
> 
> I may be brave at age 60. I told my hair stylist I was too scared to try blonde highlights she said would make my hair blonde instantly and not orange for £60. So I worked out blowdries at £22 a week x a year is say £1100 per year to cover my forehead and sides of my face vs £7000 for zygoma reduction op and flights and hotels or maybe £10k if I include the return to remove the plate and screws.
> 
> May I ask you @heartbeep how wide your face was preop and how many cms wide it is now? You must be over the moon with your small 3d face.


@MissOrange my zygoma reduction was actually done more than a decade ago, so the over-the-moonness has definitely dissipated somewhat haha! But I still think it was an excellent decision doing it. Actually, I did not experience any sagging after this procedure. It was the removal of my buccal fats some years later that cause my lower face to sag like I had aged 20 years overnight. So I looked so great after zygoma reduction - it was a seriously amazing improvement that everyone was complimenting me on - but destroyed all that good work by removing my buccal fats... Sthg I'm trying to remedy with multiple fat grafts now


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> @MissOrange my zygoma reduction was actually done more than a decade ago, so the over-the-moonness has definitely dissipated somewhat haha! But I still think it was an excellent decision doing it. Actually, I did not experience any sagging after this procedure. It was the removal of my buccal fats some years later that cause my lower face to sag like I had aged 20 years overnight. So I looked so great after zygoma reduction - it was a seriously amazing improvement that everyone was complimenting me on - but destroyed all that good work by removing my buccal fats... Sthg I'm trying to remedy with multiple fat grafts now


Oh no @heartbeep I had no idea buccal fat removal causes sagging! Yikes I had my buccal pads removed by a uk surgeon over a decade ago in hopes it would reduce the size of my huge cheeks and thought did he remove them as my cheeks were still big and wide postop.

I feel your pain at suddenly aging 20 years. Soooo sorry for you. Be strong, yes fat grafting seems to be the cure all for everything from botched ops to sagging to advanced aging. Thank goodness they invented it in my time!


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Oh no @heartbeep I had no idea buccal fat removal causes sagging! Yikes I had my buccal pads removed by a uk surgeon over a decade ago in hopes it would reduce the size of my huge cheeks and thought did he remove them as my cheeks were still big and wide postop.
> 
> I feel your pain at suddenly aging 20 years. Soooo sorry for you. Be strong, yes fat grafting seems to be the cure all for everything from botched ops to sagging to advanced aging. Thank goodness they invented it in my time!



Isn't this ironic?
When we were younger, we hated our huge cheeks and find ways to reduce/remove them.
When we grow older, we find ways to plump up our cheeks!
Haiz. All in the search for the so-called beauty.


----------



## heartbeep

Fortunecat said:


> Isn't this ironic?
> When we were younger, we hated our huge cheeks and find ways to reduce/remove them.
> When we grow older, we find ways to plump up our cheeks!
> Haiz. All in the search for the so-called beauty.


Hahahaha yes that totally describes me!! I hated my huge cheeks so much and now I want them back so bad!!


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Oh no @heartbeep I had no idea buccal fat removal causes sagging! Yikes I had my buccal pads removed by a uk surgeon over a decade ago in hopes it would reduce the size of my huge cheeks and thought did he remove them as my cheeks were still big and wide postop.
> 
> I feel your pain at suddenly aging 20 years. Soooo sorry for you. Be strong, yes fat grafting seems to be the cure all for everything from botched ops to sagging to advanced aging. Thank goodness they invented it in my time!


Yeah I’m so thankful for fat grafting! I don’t feel sorry for myself at all coz it was entirely my fault for being so greedy!! 

The buccal fat removal literally caused me to age 20 years overnight. I woke up from my op, and saw to my absolute horror that my lower cheeks had caved in and everything had sagged


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Yeah I’m so thankful for fat grafting! I don’t feel sorry for myself at all coz it was entirely my fault for being so greedy!!
> 
> The buccal fat removal literally caused me to age 20 years overnight. I woke up from my op, and saw to my absolute horror that my lower cheeks had caved in and everything had sagged


Oh my goodness we can all imagine this nightmare but for you it was not a dream you could wake up from! Sheer horror at aging so much overnight! I am so sorry. Yes we have all been there with beauty greed...me included.

Here is something to cheer you up about the potential longevity of fat grafting. Here is my ugly old before and my recent 8 months post fg after with and without makeup. I keep sharing my side profile as it looks better going from a 2 to a 10..okay maybe a 9 while I wait for the radiesse dermal filler to dissolve. I am not there yet with the front view. See how fat grafting puts back baby fat onto a face and will definitely give you big cheeks! I am obsessing that my cheeks are too big with fat and/or bone! lol. Fat grafting will put back the fat that was removed with your buccal pads. I think losing the sharp v line has actually made my face look younger so definitely no threadlift! Hate to say it but a sharp v line may actually be aging! I am fighting beauty greed impulses...a little voice that says go on go for it...zygoma reduction with Dr Oh and wake up to a small CD sized face!


----------



## HashtagGoals

MissOrange said:


> I am fighting beauty greed impulses...a little voice that says go on go for it...zygoma reduction with Dr Oh and wake up to a small CD sized face!



This is so me. My husband keeps asking me what are you exactly going to get done because I’m constantly veering back and forth on the zygoma one.... 5 more days to play ping pong with the idea until I leave for Korea~ haha. I want to make my own decision on this because I’m sure doctors will tell me I need it when I go in for my consults. If my face sags I will have no one to blame but myself.


----------



## MissOrange

HashtagGoals said:


> This is so me. My husband keeps asking me what are you exactly going to get done because I’m constantly veering back and forth on the zygoma one.... 5 more days to play ping pong with the idea until I leave for Korea~ haha. I want to make my own decision on this because I’m sure doctors will tell me I need it when I go in for my consults. If my face sags I will have no one to blame but myself.


Oh wow @HashtagGoals you are in a dangerous position with only 5 days to go before you arrive in the land of plastic surgery temptation! My friend told me to leave my credit cards at home! lol. I have only now come across the Singapore blogger Jacqueline Koh and read she got zygoma reduction! I had read up on blogger bongqiuqiu and her zygoma reduction at Regen with Dr Oh and that is how I found him and also saw him in a bbc documentary on plastic surgery. If you do meet him, he is really impressive and I had to fight my impulses like mad to stop handing over my credit card as he spent an hour going through patient photos, examining me, discussing how he does the op, how his method leads to no sagging, how it only takes an hour and recovery is one week, how he could reduce by 1 cm on each side, and so so many beautiful b&a photos of patients with similar faces to mine, etc. I kept thinking of the realself patient who had severe sagging and looked 50 at age 30 after zygoma reduction elsewhere to stop the yo yo effect of my brain. Jacqueline Koh has a really nice small face but I don't know who did hers. The zygoma reduction in bqq is not dramatic and I would want dramatic change. Sigh. I need to watch as someone with my face tries first but then my luck would lead to my face rejecting the metalwork and that would be bad, really bad as how are any nhs surgeons going to know how to get the plate and screws out? Then there would be non union. Oh the potential complications never end. I think that's enough to scare you off facial contouring. lol.

If in a moment of madness I did book zygoma reduction, I would have to hide this from my husband as he would hit the roof if I had bone surgery. Boy I sound like an addict. So for now I try to stay as far away from Korea as possible. Too much temptation, instant gratification and no waiting lists like in the UK.


----------



## HashtagGoals

@MissOrange omg. 1cm EACH SIDE??!?! That would do miracles for my face [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]

And yes I keep looking up zygoma horror stories on korean sites so that I can stay level headed. I was just wearing a hoodie and put the hood on and thought how good my face would look with 1 cm off from both sides [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> @Fortunecat buy a compression garment and bring with if the clinic does not supply one. Also take arnica pills and apply arnica cream over the bruises. You could just keep your compression garment on the whole time for 2 weeks then you don't have to see the bruises except when you bathe...have a bubble bath with lots of bubbles. I must say my tummy remains flat after 2 tummy lipos a decade ago so think positively that it is just 2-3 weeks of bruising and the bruises change colours so are not always purple and I am pleased I got tummy lipo. My excuse was having 3 babies in a row. If you gey traditional lipo you will see the results instantly when you get home. If you choose vaser lipo you go home and see that your tummy is hard and swollen with fluid! And are told the fluid absorbs on its own over time. That was the longest wait for me to see the results. I much prefer traditional as I saw a 6 pack instantly and looked like a ballerina's body!
> 
> I  am back to obsessing about zygoma reduction. *My cheekbones are really wide at 15 cms.* That is why I wear cosmetic glasses as this creates a more 3d look and masks my flat face and the narrower width of the frames give the illusion my face width is smaller. Does anyone have zygomas as wide as mine? Today my hair stylist acknowledged that my face is wide. She has a beautiful 3D small Caucasian face! I told her I wish we could trade faces! lol. Sigh. She said Brazil is very cheap where £1000 uk is worth £5000 there but I am thinking only Dr Oh at Regen.



How do you measure it?    Just hold a ruler up to the widest part of your face?


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Oh my goodness we can all imagine this nightmare but for you it was not a dream you could wake up from! Sheer horror at aging so much overnight! I am so sorry. Yes we have all been there with beauty greed...me included.
> 
> Here is something to cheer you up about the potential longevity of fat grafting. Here is my ugly old before and my recent 8 months post fg after with and without makeup. I keep sharing my side profile as it looks better going from a 2 to a 10..okay maybe a 9 while I wait for the radiesse dermal filler to dissolve. I am not there yet with the front view. See how fat grafting puts back baby fat onto a face and will definitely give you big cheeks! I am obsessing that my cheeks are too big with fat and/or bone! lol. Fat grafting will put back the fat that was removed with your buccal pads. I think losing the sharp v line has actually made my face look younger so definitely no threadlift! Hate to say it but a sharp v line may actually be aging! I am fighting beauty greed impulses...a little voice that says go on go for it...zygoma reduction with Dr Oh and wake up to a small CD sized face!


Oh wow @MissOrange ! That is a huge difference indeed. Your face used to be so gaunt, but look at it now! Yeah I’m thinking of getting my fourth fat graft done at Regen in November. I was gonna have it done at MVP based on your results, but after what happened there recently, I decided to go with Regen instead


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> How do you measure it?    Just hold a ruler up to the widest part of your face?


Hi @arnott you look into a mirror and using a ruler or tape measure hold the measure away from your face so you can see the widest part of your face ie cheekbones. So far no one has even come close to my wide 15 cms face. Sigh. Thank goodness for hair draped like a curtain in the fringe and curtain hanging on the sides to hide at least a cm of my face on each side to give the illusion of a 13 cm wide face.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Oh wow @MissOrange ! That is a huge difference indeed. Your face used to be so gaunt, but look at it now! Yeah I’m thinking of getting my fourth fat graft done at Regen in November. I was gonna have it done at MVP based on your results, but after what happened there recently, I decided to go with Regen instead


Hi @heartbeep Regen should be fine for fat graft just more expensive. I must say I am in a dilemma as my general rule of thumb was to never go to a clinic or hospital that has had a death yet Dr Seo really helped my face. I guess I am comforted in knowing that the deceased patient was not Dr Seo's patient but another doctor's but disappointed that there has been no official statement from the clinic as far as I am aware which then comes across like a cover up. Even from a moral perspective a public statement of condolence and official explanation would be a credit to the clinic but silence can be construed negatively.


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> Hi @arnott you look into a mirror and using a ruler or tape measure* hold the measure away from your face so you can see the widest part of your face ie cheekbones. *So far no one has even come close to my wide 15 cms face. Sigh. Thank goodness for hair draped like a curtain in the fringe and curtain hanging on the sides to hide at least a cm of my face on each side to give the illusion of a 13 cm wide face.



What do you mean hold the measure away from your face?   I'm confused!


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> Oh my goodness we can all imagine this nightmare but for you it was not a dream you could wake up from! Sheer horror at aging so much overnight! I am so sorry. Yes we have all been there with beauty greed...me included.
> 
> Here is something to cheer you up about the potential longevity of fat grafting. Here is my ugly old before and my recent 8 months post fg after with and without makeup. I keep sharing my side profile as it looks better going from a 2 to a 10..okay maybe a 9 while I wait for the radiesse dermal filler to dissolve. I am not there yet with the front view. See how fat grafting puts back baby fat onto a face and will definitely give you big cheeks! I am obsessing that my cheeks are too big with fat and/or bone! lol. Fat grafting will put back the fat that was removed with your buccal pads. I think losing the sharp v line has actually made my face look younger so definitely no threadlift! Hate to say it but a sharp v line may actually be aging! I am fighting beauty greed impulses...a little voice that says go on go for it...*zygoma reduction with Dr Oh and wake up to a small CD sized face!*



How many cm is a CD?


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Hi @heartbeep Regen should be fine for fat graft just more expensive. I must say I am in a dilemma as my general rule of thumb was to never go to a clinic or hospital that has had a death yet Dr Seo really helped my face. I guess I am comforted in knowing that the deceased patient was not Dr Seo's patient but another doctor's but disappointed that there has been no official statement from the clinic as far as I am aware which then comes across like a cover up. Even from a moral perspective a public statement of condolence and official explanation would be a credit to the clinic but silence can be construed negatively.


Yes their silence is rather troubling. I was so disappointed as I absolutely had my heart set on Dr Seo. I just hope Regen does a good job. I’ll be going for paranasal implants as well.

 Have you heard anything about Dr Lee Seok Jun? I think he did Bong Qiu Qiu’s fat graft. But what I don’t like that she went to another clinic for her subsequent surgeries. Doesn’t that mean she was not satisfied with the quality of work and care at Regen?! 

On the other hand I’ve seen some good reviews for the fat grafts at Regen. Man I’m so conflicted!


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> What do you mean hold the measure away from your face?   I'm confused!


Just hold the ruler against your nose but not around your face. Using a mirror makes it easier to see the horizontal face width.


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> How many cm is a CD?


It's an incredibly small 12 cms.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Yes their silence is rather troubling. I was so disappointed as I absolutely had my heart set on Dr Seo. I just hope Regen does a good job. I’ll be going for paranasal implants as well.
> 
> Have you heard anything about Dr Lee Seok Jun? I think he did Bong Qiu Qiu’s fat graft. But what I don’t like that she went to another clinic for her subsequent surgeries. Doesn’t that mean she was not satisfied with the quality of work and care at Regen?!
> 
> On the other hand I’ve seen some good reviews for the fat grafts at Regen. Man I’m so conflicted!


Yes I too wondered why bqq went to banobagi for a facelift after zygoma reduction at Regen and not get the facelift at Regen also.

I sent my non hydrated photos to Dr Hong at Fresh and the reply was I needed a lifting procedure and if I felt my cheeks were too full he could remove some fg. I am thinking why did I drink 1.6 litres of water on the morning of my consult for FL with Amir but then it appears he does a mini lift and the definitive lift is smas. So I am also confused and going in circles especially after reading that the default setting for the S9 phone for selfies is basic beauty mode!!! So I had to retake my selfies after cancelling beauty mode and my face still looks slimmer in selfies than in a mirror?! I hope I don't have bdd as this would really be confusing. Thank goodness I have a concrete 15 cm width measurement that cannot lie so ideally I should be getting posterior zygoma reduction followed by a smas facelift. Sigh. That is too much effort and cost for an old lady. Maybe my face is wider as I now weigh 101 lbs, the most I have been this year. Aargh.

I haven't heard of that doctor at Regen but if he is their fg expert and did bqq he should be fine. There is a recent post with photos of Regen fg in another thread about sagging. Looks good but then she got threadlift too? Is this a case of upselling or did she need it with fg?


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Yes I too wondered why bqq went to banobagi for a facelift after zygoma reduction at Regen and not get the facelift at Regen also.
> 
> I sent my non hydrated photos to Dr Hong at Fresh and the reply was I needed a lifting procedure and if I felt my cheeks were too full he could remove some fg. I am thinking why did I drink 1.6 litres of water on the morning of my consult for FL with Amir but then it appears he does a mini lift and the definitive lift is smas. So I am also confused and going in circles especially after reading that the default setting for the S9 phone for selfies is basic beauty mode!!! So I had to retake my selfies after cancelling beauty mode and my face still looks slimmer in selfies than in a mirror?! I hope I don't have bdd as this would really be confusing. Thank goodness I have a concrete 15 cm width measurement that cannot lie so ideally I should be getting posterior zygoma reduction followed by a smas facelift. Sigh. That is too much effort and cost for an old lady. Maybe my face is wider as I now weigh 101 lbs, the most I have been this year. Aargh.
> 
> I haven't heard of that doctor at Regen but if he is their fg expert and did bqq he should be fine. There is a recent post with photos of Regen fg in another thread about sagging. Looks good but then she got threadlift too? Is this a case of upselling or did she need it with fg?


Well, firstly @MissOrange, I don't think you're old! In any case, we girls gotta keep up the good work in maintaining our looks, no matter the age! Just look at Raquel Welch. We should all strive for that lol. 

Would a smas facelift result in a great deal of swelling? I too sometimes toy with the idea of having one, but I'm so afraid of having to deal with massive swelling and bruising. I'm also afraid I'll be left looking even more gaunt than before, if they remove too much skin and tissue during the lift


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> It's an incredibly small 12 cms.



Thanks!     How many cm is an average face?


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> Thanks!     How many cm is an average face?


12.1 cms for Caucasians and 13.6 for Asians. My face is wider than an Asian with a high bmi and I have a low bmi! I guess that means I do need zygoma reduction by 1 cm on each side after all to take down my 15 cms to 13.

My face is wider than the bottom left photo of an asian with a high bmi! Even my tall British husband's face is narrower! Sigh. No wonder I style my hair like curtain drapes to cover the sides of my face and disguise with 12 cm glasses whose arms are stretched outwards to span my 15 cms face to reach my ears under my hair and I struggle to find frames to fit me at the opticians and have to try on men's frames and even then may only find one that fits. The 12 cm frames + styled forward hair then gives the illusion of a 12 cm wide face! No wonder I have always worn glasses! I've always thought my head size was too big for my frame even as a child!

I was so close to booking Dr Oh. Perhaps I should have but then I had a panic attack at the sight of plate and screws with my surgical history of infections and rejections but then would have them removed at a year. This explains why my front face view is bothering me and why I prefer side profile selfies.

My daughters are blessed to be half Caucasian as this has given them smaller faces like the top right photo genetically and taller heights! And even with smaller heads they are just as smart so brain size does not correlate with IQ! I can't even use the excuse I have a big head to house a bigger brain...boohoohoo.


----------



## MOTTY26

Ms. O I have to give this a try. LOL I have a tape measure.  How do u do it?  Should I start from the top of my nose thru the sides touching my ears?  Or from the base side of the hose to the ears?  Thats for one side of the face ofcourse, u do the same thing on the other side, assuming that one has a symmetrical face. thx


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> 12.1 cms for Caucasians and 13.6 for Asians. My face is wider than an Asian with a high bmi and I have a low bmi! I guess that means I do need zygoma reduction by 1 cm on each side after all to take down my 15 cms to 13.
> 
> My face is wider than the bottom left photo of an asian with a high bmi! Even my tall British husband's face is narrower! Sigh. No wonder I style my hair like curtain drapes to cover the sides of my face and disguise with 12 cm glasses whose arms are stretched outwards to span my 15 cms face to reach my ears under my hair and I struggle to find frames to fit me at the opticians and have to try on men's frames and even then may only find one that fits. The 12 cm frames + styled forward hair then gives the illusion of a 12 cm wide face! No wonder I have always worn glasses! I've always thought my head size was too big for my frame even as a child!
> 
> I was so close to booking Dr Oh. Perhaps I should have but then I had a panic attack at the sight of plate and screws with my surgical history of infections and rejections but then would have them removed at a year. This explains why my front face view is bothering me and why I prefer side profile selfies.
> 
> My daughters are blessed to be half Caucasian as this has given them smaller faces like the top right photo genetically and taller heights! *And even with smaller heads they are just as smart so brain size does not correlate with IQ! I can't even use the excuse I have a big head to house a bigger brain...boohoohoo.*



Wow, I never would have guessed  that Asians have bigger faces than Caucasians since most Asians have smaller frames!   So that means the average white person has a CD sized face!   LOL @ the bolded part!   Smaller heads are just as smart!      How many cm are your daughters' faces?


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> Wow, I never would have guessed  that Asians have bigger faces than Caucasians since most Asians have smaller frames!   So that means the average white person has a CD sized face!   LOL @ the bolded part!   Smaller heads are just as smart!      How many cm are your daughters' faces?


I haven't measured as they have zero interest in plastic surgery. I even felt their faces to feel their small bones to see how their heads could be so small?! lol I can't get my head around how they can have such small faces.

I am back to wearing both my head compression bandage in hopes it will squeeze my facial fat and make my face smaller and to tighten the loose skin in my lower face and also my compression garment to tighten up my loose skin of my inner thighs from too many fg lipos. I would advise stopping fg at number 3 just like rhinos so choose wisely!


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> I haven't measured as they have zero interest in plastic surgery. I even felt their faces to feel their small bones to see how their heads could be so small?! lol I can't get my head around how they can have such small faces.
> 
> I am back to wearing both my head compression bandage in hopes it will squeeze my facial fat and make my face smaller and to tighten the loose skin in my lower face and also my compression garment to tighten up my loose skin of my inner thighs from too many fg lipos. I would advise stopping fg at number 3 just like rhinos so choose wisely!



Do google Yakson!
www.yakson.com.sg


----------



## HashtagGoals

@MissOrange my husband is white too. His face is smaller than the average white person. When I take pictures with him it looks like my face is exploding. I totally feel you!!


----------



## MissOrange

HashtagGoals said:


> @MissOrange my husband is white too. His face is smaller than the average white person. When I take pictures with him it looks like my face is exploding. I totally feel you!!


Aww thanks @HashtagGoals we are not alone! Now I get why every time I go to the hair salon I freak out seeing my big wide face with my washed hair pulled back with a Caucasian hair stylist standing next to me with her small face! There is no escape staring at the obvious difference in face size since I got lasik and can see clearly!

Maybe if I keep wearing a compression head bandage while watching tv I can squash my facial bones in gradually? lol. I measured with the tight head bandage on and my width measured 14 cms!!!

@Fortunecat I clicked the site but all it says is small face management and does not give the secret away? lol.

This will make you laugh. See how wide I have to bend out the arms of my spectacles to fit my wide face and then bend it in around my ears so it doesn't fall off my flat face. lol. 12 cms is the width of the frames vs 15 cms is the width of my face! lol

This is me squashing my face! lol


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Aww thanks @HashtagGoals we are not alone! Now I get why every time I go to the hair salon I freak out seeing my big wide face with my washed hair pulled back with a Caucasian hair stylist standing next to me with her small face! There is no escape staring at the obvious difference in face size since I got lasik and can see clearly!
> 
> Maybe if I keep wearing a compression head bandage while watching tv I can squash my facial bones in gradually? lol. I measured with the tight head bandage on and my width measured 14 cms!!!
> 
> @Fortunecat I clicked the site but all it says is small face management and does not give the secret away? lol.
> 
> This will make you laugh. See how wide I have to bend out the arms of my spectacles to fit my wide face and then bend it in around my ears so it doesn't fall off my flat face. lol. 12 cms is the width of the frames vs 15 cms is the width of my face! lol
> 
> This is me squashing my face! lol


Lol @MissOrange! That doesn’t look very comfortable! I think you should just bite the bullet and go for a zygoma reduction!


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Ms. O I have to give this a try. LOL I have a tape measure.  How do u do it?  Should I start from the top of my nose thru the sides touching my ears?  Or from the base side of the hose to the ears?  Thats for one side of the face ofcourse, u do the same thing on the other side, assuming that one has a symmetrical face. thx


Hi @MOTTY26 you look in a mirror to measure the width of your face at its widest part and keep the tape measure straight. Don't include your ears.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Lol @MissOrange! That doesn’t look very comfortable! I think you should just bite the bullet and go for a zygoma reduction!


Thanks @heartbeep but my track record is premaxilla gortex infection that needed removal, breast implant rupture and leaking that needed removal, rib rhino infection that needed weeks of antibiotics and reop for rib displacement and skin sagging in my lower face and thighs from 4 fgs that need excessive hydration to refill so the odds of a complication for me are pretty high. If I lived in korea I would definitely go for it as I would be able to see Dr Oh for any complication but from the uk it would mean another long haul 12 hour flight with an infected or rejected metal plate and screws?

I am counting on natural bone mass loss postmenopause at up to 3% a year x 5-7 years to hopefully reduce my zygoma. My face had been 15.5 cms 2 years ago (menopause kicked in a few years ago) so 15 cms is an improvement and and a natural 3% loss in bone mass. I am now dieting to hopefully get it down to 14 cms or I could just wait another 2-3 years for another 3% loss. The uploaded images show that with age the cheeks get narrower as the facial bone mass reduces. I wonder how ladies who had dramatic v lines will look in their 60s-80s?

Han Ye Seul's bmi is anorexic at 16.6 or 46 kg for 1.66 m so I will not go this low. K pop female stars are put on diets to keep slim which helps keep a small face.

Osteoporosis in women can reduce bone mass up to 53% by age 80 which is really scary and presents a new set of problems to deal with when facial bones lose a lot of mass from aging.

Interestingly you can see in the older face how I tackled signs of aging with fg to my hollowed upper lids, temples, forehead, midface and lower, radiesse to the nasolabial creases, hair transplant to lower the hairline,  rib rhino to lift my tip, bullhorn liplift to reduce the philtrum and the only thing left to do is a smas facelift at age 60 to create a v line once my skin sags more. Oddly the texture of my hair postmenopause is dry and curly like a tight perm so I need professional blowdries or hair straighteners and nourish with argan oil.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Aww thanks @HashtagGoals we are not alone! Now I get why every time I go to the hair salon I freak out seeing my big wide face with my washed hair pulled back with a Caucasian hair stylist standing next to me with her small face! There is no escape staring at the obvious difference in face size since I got lasik and can see clearly!
> 
> Maybe if I keep wearing a compression head bandage while watching tv I can squash my facial bones in gradually? lol. I measured with the tight head bandage on and my width measured 14 cms!!!
> 
> @Fortunecat I clicked the site but all it says is small face management and does not give the secret away? lol.
> 
> This will make you laugh. See how wide I have to bend out the arms of my spectacles to fit my wide face and then bend it in around my ears so it doesn't fall off my flat face. lol. 12 cms is the width of the frames vs 15 cms is the width of my face! lol
> 
> This is me squashing my face! lol



Yakson's technique is using massage!
They claimed that the face will become v-line after that and a lot of Korean ladies staying in SG frequent that place.

Hmm... I wonder do the fats get displaced after all those massages?


----------



## HashtagGoals

Fortunecat said:


> Yakson's technique is using massage!
> They claimed that the face will become v-line after that and a lot of Korean ladies staying in SG frequent that place.
> 
> Hmm... I wonder do the fats get displaced after all those massages?



Ive gotten this before. It’s a huge time commitment and is not really an option for foreigners (if you don’t have a franchise near you.) It’s not cheap and it hurts like hell. The owner did my face and he literally pushes your facial bones as if he’s trying to break them in to make your face smaller. It’s honestly oddly satisfying because your lying there thinking beauty is pain this is so working. 

I believe I paid $500 for one session in the nyc franchise 4 years ago. You have to get a series of treatments at a schedule they recommend. I didn’t have time to go to all these treatments as I was not an nyc resident and didn’t want to drive 4 hours every time I needed to go to a session. 

You need to go regularly after the series to maintain the face size reduction (Idk how often.) Korean celebs go regularly it does work, but it’s something you have to implement in your lifestyle.


----------



## HashtagGoals

Btw. Measured the widest part of my hubbys cheekbones yesterday. The measurement read 8.5-9 cm. Ridiculous. I hope I measured it seriously wrong.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

HashtagGoals said:


> Ive gotten this before. It’s a huge time commitment and is not really an option for foreigners (if you don’t have a franchise near you.) It’s not cheap and it hurts like hell. The owner did my face and he literally pushes your facial bones as if he’s trying to break them in to make your face smaller. It’s honestly oddly satisfying because your lying there thinking beauty is pain this is so working.
> 
> I believe I paid $500 for one session in the nyc franchise 4 years ago. You have to get a series of treatments at a schedule they recommend. I didn’t have time to go to all these treatments as I was not an nyc resident and didn’t want to drive 4 hours every time I needed to go to a session.
> 
> You need to go regularly after the series to maintain the face size reduction (Idk how often.) Korean celebs go regularly it does work, but it’s something you have to implement in your lifestyle.


Furthermore it looks like the Manhattan branch closed so now only available around SE Asia. It looks like you need at least 20 visits and then you have to maintain as well as ensuring that you maintain a stable weight. If you read the testimonies some clients, even the celebs have been going for years!  I think its great as they take a plaster mold before, during and after to prove to you the shrinkage but too costly and time consuming and clinics are only in SE Asia. They even correct the bow legged patients.


----------



## MissOrange

HashtagGoals said:


> Btw. Measured the widest part of my hubbys cheekbones yesterday. The measurement read 8.5-9 cm. Ridiculous. I hope I measured it seriously wrong.


Wow @HashtagGoals you measured the width of your husband's face from side to side and got 8.5-9 cms?  Can't be right? See the diagram I uploaded.


----------



## HashtagGoals

@MissOrange I did!! I think I need a string to measure and then measure the length of the string to be more accurate. I used the iPhone measure app on him and got 10-11 cm! I did it multiple times so he got pretty annoyed at me fussing about and saying  stuff like “what’s wrong with your face?!” “Stop moving!” “Don’t chew your gum!!” Hahaha. I’m going to try again tomorrow [emoji57]


----------



## MissOrange

HashtagGoals said:


> @MissOrange I did!! I think I need a string to measure and then measure the length of the string to be more accurate. I used the iPhone measure app on him and got 10-11 cm! I did it multiple times so he got pretty annoyed at me fussing about and saying  stuff like “what’s wrong with your face?!” “Stop moving!” “Don’t chew your gum!!” Hahaha. I’m going to try again tomorrow [emoji57]


Poor husband. lol. We believe you that he has a face smaller than a CD size. Sigh. So now my face is much wider than a man's face. lol.

I am still at 101 lbs. To look like Han Ye Seul means a weight of 90 lbs for me to shrink my face. That is impossible and would accelerate osteoporosis. Struggling to lose weight. Would be happy at 96-98 lbs. Debating when to get my silicone implants removed. I really should decide between now at 6 years and the 8-10 year mark before they leak or rupture. That would reduce my weight? lol. I looked up fresh on instagram and saw his abdo lipo put into breasts! So the order would be explant breasts with breast lift then wait 6 months then lipo my arm and back fat and put it in my breasts. Ugh 2 more operations to face. Once you start your ps journey it never ends draining your savings. Sigh. I do tell ladies that breast implants only last 10 years and for me less with all the leaks and one rupture. It seems like the decades go by very quickly and have my 4th and last one left to remove.

My daughters refused my request at dinner to measure the widths of their faces lol.


----------



## MOTTY26

Miranda Kerr have a wide face but considered beautiful.  I dont think having a small face necessarily means beautiful.  I think its the structure that makes it beautiful.


----------



## Fortunecat

MOTTY26 said:


> Miranda Kerr have a wide face but considered beautiful.  I dont think having a small face necessarily means beautiful.  I think its the structure that makes it beautiful.


I guess the features have to complement with one another in order to look pretty.
There are some people, despite plastic surgeries, still don't look stunning. Maybe there is a limit to what plastic surgery can do.


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Miranda Kerr have a wide face but considered beautiful.  I dont think having a small face necessarily means beautiful.  I think its the structure that makes it beautiful.


@MOTTY26 thank you for that! I need to be comparing my round wide face with stars who have similar shapes!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> I guess the features have to complement with one another in order to look pretty.
> There are some people, despite plastic surgeries, still don't look stunning. Maybe there is a limit to what plastic surgery can do.


Good point @Fortunecat and also age plays a big part. A 20 year old is more likely to get a better result than a 40 year old and boy am I pushing my luck getting procedures in my 50s. Maybe I should quit while I am ahead.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MOTTY26 said:


> Miranda Kerr have a wide face but considered beautiful.  I dont think having a small face necessarily means beautiful.  I think its the structure that makes it beautiful.


Yeah but she also has big beautiful eyes.


----------



## HashtagGoals

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Yeah but she also has big beautiful eyes.



Not to mention how I would have to get double jaw surgery to look cute like her even with a wide face.


----------



## watermelon09

@MissOrange I think you look beautiful already, in my opinion you don't need zygoma reduction surgery.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I discovered that smas facelift only addresses jowls and not the nasolabial folds! This surgeon also comments on why we get nasolabial folds! Fascinating.


----------



## viamala

MissOrange said:


> Today I discovered that smas facelift only addresses jowls and not the nasolabial folds! This surgeon also comments on why we get nasolabial folds! Fascinating.


based on my experience, the surgeon is absolutely right. I used to have severe nasolabial folds before getting buccal fat removal, because gravity pulled the fat down. The nasolabial folds practically disappeared when I got rid of my buccal fat. However, the removal of buccal fat caused slight sagging on the corners of my mouth.


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Today I discovered that smas facelift only addresses jowls and not the nasolabial folds! This surgeon also comments on why we get nasolabial folds! Fascinating.



Interesting. Also it's a good reminder not to overdo the midface FG since if the skin can't support the added fat, it could sag.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on smile analysis. Some report difficulty smiling post rhino (that happened to me too but got better over time so be patient). Another mentioned that we may see big cheeks but others don't. This got me thinking. I went to asps in apgujeong dehydrated on the morning of my scheduled op at mvp in Feb of this year to get an opinion on facelift but the asps consultant had a look at my face and said I was not a candidate?! Also got refused facelift by Dr Amir in the uk? Why am I being refused facelifts in person? Maybe because I smile when I see them as I am so happy getting surgical opinions? When I smile my whole face is lifted naturally! lol. And maybe they see apple cheeks and not big wide cheeks? Maybe I need to smile more and stop looking for faults.


----------



## MissOrange

viamala said:


> based on my experience, the surgeon is absolutely right. I used to have severe nasolabial folds before getting buccal fat removal, because gravity pulled the fat down. The nasolabial folds practically disappeared when I got rid of my buccal fat. However, the removal of buccal fat caused slight sagging on the corners of my mouth.


I have had buccal fat removal too @viamala. I would love to understand why we get sagging at the mouth corners. I noticed in old photos I had this even 2 years ago before korea. Will do research. Really happy to now understand why some have deep nasolabial folds and why some don't.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on how misleading Instagram clinic b&a photos can be. One clinic likes to post double chins with the patient pressing the chin against the body with miraculous afters. Sooooo I decided to see if I could recreate a hideous double chin with sagging by pressing my chin against my sternum and then clicking selfie. Yikes really ghastly. Then I took a selfie of my normal face, ie took my chin off my chest...wow amazing non surgical transformation! 

Now read this summary of potential complications I found on another site. https://cosmeticjourney.com/forum/t...oblemscomplications-with-face-bone-reduction/
Shocking read. Bone surgery is not to be taken lightly and do not fall for instagram clinic b&a images. Find real patients and ask for 1 year follow ups.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on how misleading Instagram clinic b&a photos can be. One clinic likes to post double chins with the patient pressing the chin against the body with miraculous afters. Sooooo I decided to see if I could recreate a hideous double chin with sagging by pressing my chin against my sternum and then clicking selfie. Yikes really ghastly. Then I took a selfie of my normal face, ie took my chin off my chest...wow amazing non surgical transformation!


Hahahaha.
This is so funny.
But yes! I do that sometimes... however, i will refrain from doing it as i am scared of double chin!


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on how misleading Instagram clinic b&a photos can be. One clinic likes to post double chins with the patient pressing the chin against the body with miraculous afters. Sooooo I decided to see if I could recreate a hideous double chin with sagging by pressing my chin against my sternum and then clicking selfie. Yikes really ghastly. Then I took a selfie of my normal face, ie took my chin off my chest...wow amazing non surgical transformation!



That reminds me of this: 

While it's funny to joke about we've seen clinics who actually do tricks like that to make the patient look worse in the before pics so the after looks that much better, it's so shameful and deceptive I can't believe they actually stoop to that level. If a clinic made me pose like that, I'd run out the door as imagine if they later use such a picture against you to prove the surgery outcome made an improvement?


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> That reminds me of this:
> 
> While it's funny to joke about we've seen clinics who actually do tricks like that to make the patient look worse in the before pics so the after looks that much better, it's so shameful and deceptive I can't believe they actually stoop to that level. If a clinic made me pose like that, I'd run out the door as imagine if they later use such a picture against you to prove the surgery outcome made an improvement?



Omg @Gats that is such a hilarious video clip on camera angles! Here is a b+a clinic photo on instagram of a girl pressing her chin down like I did and then the dramatic after with her chin up. She uses hair to cover up most of the right side of her face in the after so it is not an exact before and after surgery. Also in the before she is wearing many layers of clothing to bulk up and in the after has a thin v neck t shirt.


----------



## Gats

Good gawd, Fresh has no shame. I went to look at their website to see if they do that there too, omg check out the top of their double chin surgery front page: http://engfreshps.com/170

It's laughable. In the side profile shots, that gives away how a change in neck position can exaggerate your appearance. I hope people out there are sensible enough to see through these tricks:


----------



## kitty nyc

Wow, I had no idea there was this kind of difference in face widths! I’m Chinese and did your face measurement technique and my face is 12.5cm. Maybe this is why it never occurred to me growing up in the US in a Caucasian neighborhood that face widths could be so different. But like others have said I don’t think small faces necessarily constitute beauty. There is so much more to the equation!




MissOrange said:


> 12.1 cms for Caucasians and 13.6 for Asians. My face is wider than an Asian with a high bmi and I have a low bmi! I guess that means I do need zygoma reduction by 1 cm on each side after all to take down my 15 cms to 13.
> 
> My face is wider than the bottom left photo of an asian with a high bmi! Even my tall British husband's face is narrower! Sigh. No wonder I style my hair like curtain drapes to cover the sides of my face and disguise with 12 cm glasses whose arms are stretched outwards to span my 15 cms face to reach my ears under my hair and I struggle to find frames to fit me at the opticians and have to try on men's frames and even then may only find one that fits. The 12 cm frames + styled forward hair then gives the illusion of a 12 cm wide face! No wonder I have always worn glasses! I've always thought my head size was too big for my frame even as a child!
> 
> I was so close to booking Dr Oh. Perhaps I should have but then I had a panic attack at the sight of plate and screws with my surgical history of infections and rejections but then would have them removed at a year. This explains why my front face view is bothering me and why I prefer side profile selfies.
> 
> My daughters are blessed to be half Caucasian as this has given them smaller faces like the top right photo genetically and taller heights! And even with smaller heads they are just as smart so brain size does not correlate with IQ! I can't even use the excuse I have a big head to house a bigger brain...boohoohoo.


----------



## kitty nyc

Oh and I have an average BMI.


----------



## MissOrange

kitty nyc said:


> Wow, I had no idea there was this kind of difference in face widths! I’m Chinese and did your face measurement technique and my face is 12.5cm. Maybe this is why it never occurred to me growing up in the US in a Caucasian neighborhood that face widths could be so different. But like others have said I don’t think small faces necessarily constitute beauty. There is so much more to the equation!


You are lucky @kitty nyc!


----------



## MissOrange

For those who face Sophie's choice over whether to get zygoma reduction to reduce the facial width, a simple solution and one I use is cosmetic spectacles. Here is an example of how it creates a perfect golden ratio face just with a pair of glasses.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on comparing like with like. Ladies we often look and compare our no make-up face to clinic afters and celebs on instagram with full professional makeup with contouring and false eyelashes, studio lighting, professional hair stylist and sometimes even elongate their bodies in slanted mirrors. I know I do this with Han ye seul ( see ig photo) and have to chide myself as professional makeup and lighting can create her extraordinary beauty. I need to find a bare faced photo of her instead or compare myself with full make-up with contouring and hair professionally styled. Remember to compare like with like.

Another observation is that cheek reduction/augmentation is cultural! Here a Brit has her cheeks augmented with dermal filler yet we Asians would prefer her before cheeks and some reduce their cheekbones to achieve it!

As an aside I have booked blonde highlights for Friday for £60. Finally going to try blonde the professional way in my quest to look more like Han Ye Seul.


----------



## MissOrange

I am now studying how to make my face look slim in selfies. I would be the girl next to Han ye seul with my wide 15 cms face. Studying Han's pose she uses hair on one side to cover some of her face and the finger gesture to hide the other side of her face. She also tilts her chin down so her forehead appears bigger and lower face smaller. And false eyelashes make her eyes pop next to the girl with no false lashes. Fascinating. So if you take a group photo, remember her photo modeling tips!

Am getting excited about trying blonde professionally in 2 days. No more diy disasters wrecking the colour and condition of my hair.


----------



## Chinnie

Wide faces with a short midface and good forward growth are amazing. I will share my face so you can see what a narrow face can look like. I don't mind I have done pr for the clinic I worked at. Btw I don't mind my face but my adenoids growth pattern never got corrected so my goal is to make it look like I have better growth


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Chinnie said:


> Wide faces with a short midface and good forward growth are amazing. I will share my face so you can see what a narrow face can look like. I don't mind I have done pr for the clinic I worked at. Btw I don't mind my face but my adenoids growth pattern never got corrected so my goal is to make it look like I have better growth



This picture needs no explanation. Biggish, full face V-Line slim face.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> This picture needs no explanation. Biggish, full face V-Line slim face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4217921


Sorry typo. Biggish full face vs V-Line slim face for youthfulness.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> This picture needs no explanation. Biggish, full face V-Line slim face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4217921


Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 the sisters look younger and prettier with big wide full faces than with slim v lines which project a more angular harsher look! More food for thought! Fascinating the longer noses make them look older as the tip has dropped. I don't want a long nose anymore or a sharp v line. No more desire for a lifting procedure.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's second post is a must view for anyone who has had more than one plastic surgery intervention...

and the reason why some keep wanting more and more. A good friend shared this youtube clip with me.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

On the topic of FG. Found this interesting paper on rising infections from fg in SK.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> On the topic of FG. Found this interesting paper on rising infections from fg in SK.
> View attachment 4218979
> View attachment 4218980


Oh my goodness I had no idea even fg gets infected! Make sure you take antibiotics postop!


----------



## Chinnie

MissOrange said:


> Oh my goodness I had no idea even fg gets infected! Make sure you take antibiotics postop!



I've actually prepped fat and assisted with grafts before. It's a difficult process to keep the fat viable for transfer. Fat is sterile obviously however breaks in sterile technique can lead to infection, and since there can be several steps in the process the risk is higher than say, juvaderm which comes pre-packaged. For example, the Mycobacterium species listed in one of the photos is know to be transferred via exposure of surgical tools to tap water. I am assuming that is where the infections come from. Maybe poor hygiene of the incision site as well.

I would ask the clinic how they prep the fat and make sure you have a clinic really attentive to sterility.


----------



## Gats

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> On the topic of FG. Found this interesting paper on rising infections from fg in SK.



I'd love to know which clinics have fg related infections. That's so scary those women are forever scarred by an elective procedure. If you asked a clinic during consultation how many infections from fg they've had in the past 5 years, would they even answer you honestly? Side note, I'd love for anyone consulting with MVP to report back on how they respond when asked if they had any medical accidents...


----------



## missy_sana

Chinnie said:


> I've actually prepped fat and assisted with grafts before. It's a difficult process to keep the fat viable for transfer. Fat is sterile obviously however breaks in sterile technique can lead to infection, and since there can be several steps in the process the risk is higher than say, juvaderm which comes pre-packaged. For example, the Mycobacterium species listed in one of the photos is know to be transferred via exposure of surgical tools to tap water. I am assuming that is where the infections come from. Maybe poor hygiene of the incision site as well.
> 
> I would ask the clinic how they prep the fat and make sure you have a clinic really attentive to sterility.



If any clinic offers free FG top-up within 3-6 months, then politely decline that option and ask for a discount on the primary/fresh fat graft, or an alternative FDA approved treatment of equivalent value, e.g. botox, filler, or maybe even a beauty facial or grooming treatment.

Injecting thawed fat that was frozen for any length of time is more likely to deteriorate and allows harmful bacteria to multiply (even if slowly) if not stored or LABELLED correctly.  Are you sure that's not someone else's fat reserves injected inside you?  Ooops!

In my opinion, a free FG top-up just seems to be a marketing ploy to lure patients back for more surgical procedures on an impulsive whim, like as if you were to pop out to buy just a bottle of milk at the supermarket, but then you end up returning home with a car load of grocery shopping!  :-/

BTW, try a liquified fat experiment:  Freeze a plastic bottle of fresh full-fat whole milk and then thaw it 3-6 months later... it curdles into chunky lumps and tastes as awful as it looks!


----------



## Gats

missy_sana said:


> If any clinic offers free FG top-up within 3-6 months, then politely decline that option and ask for a discount on the primary/fresh fat graft, or an alternative FDA approved treatment of equivalent value, e.g. botox, filler, or maybe even a beauty facial or grooming treatment.
> 
> Injecting thawed fat that was frozen for any length of time is more likely to deteriorate and allows harmful bacteria to multiply (even if slowly) if not stored or LABELLED correctly.  Are you sure that's not someone else's fat reserves injected inside you?  Ooops!
> 
> In my opinion, a free FG top-up just seems to be a marketing ploy to lure patients back for more surgical procedures on an impulsive whim, like as if you were to pop out to buy just a bottle of milk at the supermarket, but then you end up returning home with a car load of grocery shopping!  :-/



I would confirm first whether or not they used stored fat or perform lipo again for the top up, if it's the latter definitely don't decline!

There was an article posted recently that using frozen fat also increases the chance for lipomas/lumps so it's yet another reason to avoid that. Fat graft survival is hard enough as is when done right after lipo, so freezing the fat for months to inject later and expecting it to survive just sounds absurd to me.


----------



## missy_sana

Gats said:


> I would confirm first whether or not they used stored fat or perform lipo again for the top up, if it's the latter definitely don't decline!



@Gats , if you find a clinic that really does fresh liposuction again for a (free?) top-up, then please post it here!


----------



## Chinnie

Gats said:


> I would confirm first whether or not they used stored fat or perform lipo again for the top up, if it's the latter definitely don't decline!
> 
> There was an article posted recently that using frozen fat also increases the chance for lipomas/lumps so it's yet another reason to avoid that. Fat graft survival is hard enough as is when done right after lipo, so freezing the fat for months to inject later and expecting it to survive just sounds absurd to me.



We got out fat from lipo and I prepped the fat right there in the OR by filtering it. I know there are better methods to purify it though but it worked for us for the most part. As long as  there wasn't  really aggressive lipo, that just destroys the cells. It generally took as well as expected, still needed some treatments and the surgeon has to be really good at injecting it


----------



## Gats

Chinnie said:


> We got out fat from lipo and I prepped the fat right there in the OR by filtering it. I know there are better methods to purify it though but it worked for us for the most part. As long as  there wasn't  really aggressive lipo, that just destroys the cells. It generally took as well as expected, still needed some treatments and the surgeon has to be really good at injecting it



What would you estimate was the 6+ month survival rate for your office? Also any thoughts on adding prp to fg? Is it worth the extra cost?

PS 
Any thoughts on the technique Dr. Hong uses in this video:


----------



## Chinnie

Gats said:


> What would you estimate was the 6+ month survival rate for your office? Also any thoughts on adding prp to fg? Is it worth the extra cost?
> 
> PS
> Any thoughts on the technique Dr. Hong uses in this video:




We were a body focused clinic, and I only did a few cases of fat grafting there. We brought in an external surgeon when we had a fat graft and the ones we did were all booty  It was variable as far as results but once the fat took in the area by the 1 month follow up it was there for the sixth month follow up. It was about 50% average for both the first and the second treatment. If they didn't need very much or were filling in a small depression they usually just happy with one. One thing they don't discuss too often is that if you do too many sessions in the same area, scar tissue can form there and make things worse for you. However on the other had, I don't like the idea of overfilling. Smaller treatments worked better.

We didn't add PRP to our fat graft although we did PRP by itself on occasion. This was just the way the outside surgeon did it, not saying it's bad at all. Actually I think it sounds like it might be a good idea, but as cost vs results, I could not say.

The video you sent shows pretty good technique. The cannula size looks kinda large for the face but if that's the tool that works for him and gets results, that's what matters. Its been said that small cannula increase fat viability and reduce the chance of lumps. Harvesting via syringe the way he did is the best way to do it. Like I said, using the standard lipo equipment can traumatized the cells. We didn't do lipo on the face, and Dr did not recemmend patients to seek lipo of the face elsewhere. However that's the west and if they have better ways in the east, it's possible they have a good method. I don't know about acculift either that's actually something I was considering. We did have a RF body tightening treatment that worked for the right people.

Hope that helps a little! For face stuff other than fillers and botox I don't have too much experience. Lipo and tummy tucks we did everyday tho

BTW that ultrasound to look at the tissue layers looks pretty awesome, definity a huge selling point there.


----------



## MissOrange

Chinnie said:


> I've actually prepped fat and assisted with grafts before. It's a difficult process to keep the fat viable for transfer. Fat is sterile obviously however breaks in sterile technique can lead to infection, and since there can be several steps in the process the risk is higher than say, juvaderm which comes pre-packaged. For example, the Mycobacterium species listed in one of the photos is know to be transferred via exposure of surgical tools to tap water. I am assuming that is where the infections come from. Maybe poor hygiene of the incision site as well.
> 
> I would ask the clinic how they prep the fat and make sure you have a clinic really attentive to sterility.


Yes I remember now. In 2017 I had fg to my upper lids at mvp and accidentally washed my face right after surgery with tap water. I completely forgot and in the morning woke up with a red infected lid on one side. I panicked as the antibiotics I was on were not helping. As I had also booked a full face top up with DA I mentioned this to Dr Kim and he added IV antibiotics intraop which helped clear the infection. So this year for fg I did not throw water on my face and just cleaned gently and not over the insertion sites...no infection. Here is a photo from last year of my lid infection.


----------



## MOTTY26

MissOrange said:


> Yes I remember now. In 2017 I had fg to my upper lids at mvp and accidentally washed my face right after surgery with tap water. I completely forgot and in the morning woke up with a red infected lid on one side. I panicked as the antibiotics I was on were not helping. As I had also booked a full face top up with DA I mentioned this to Dr Kim and he added IV antibiotics intraop which helped clear the infection. So this year for fg I did not throw water on my face and just cleaned gently and not over the insertion sites...no infection. Here is a photo from last year of my lid infection.



Ms. O -  I really need this surgery.  As u can see my eyes looks tired all the time and dark circle around with a crepey skin.  The upper part of my eyes looks hollow, the eye balls looks sunken (not sure how if I describe it correctly), unlike yours u have some fats on there that makes your eyes looks young and so fresh.

Im just anxious since the fat will be injected in the eye area that it might cost something that will make me blind. 

Can u still remember which part of the eye are did the dr injected the fats? Did he do both your upper and lower eye areas?  Also,  based on your previous post,  I guess the fats came from your thighs?

Im thinking if eye lift will be a better and safer choice instead.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Yes I remember now. In 2017 I had fg to my upper lids at mvp and accidentally washed my face right after surgery with tap water. I completely forgot and in the morning woke up with a red infected lid on one side. I panicked as the antibiotics I was on were not helping. As I had also booked a full face top up with DA I mentioned this to Dr Kim and he added IV antibiotics intraop which helped clear the infection. So this year for fg I did not throw water on my face and just cleaned gently and not over the insertion sites...no infection. Here is a photo from last year of my lid infection.



Scared sh*tless about taking too many antibiotics. Several studies have shown the more you've taken in your lifetime, the higher your risk of Alzheimer's not to mention building a resistance to them.  When my appendix ruptured I had no choice but now if I can, I don't take them even when they are prescribed. Was not going to take any in SK.  SK doctors are of the mindset take them, just in case and hand them out like candy or lollies, IMO.


----------



## heartbeep

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Scared sh*tless about taking too many antibiotics. Several studies have shown the more you've taken in your lifetime, the higher your risk of Alzheimer's not to mention building a resistance to them.  When my appendix ruptured I had no choice but now if I can, I don't take them even when they are prescribed. Was not going to take any in SK.  SK doctors are of the mindset take them, just in case and hand them out like candy or lollies, IMO.


I’m the same! For my last three fat grafts, I didn’t take any of the prescribed  antibiotics coz I’m so afraid of over burdening my system!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on getting blonde highlights post surgery to enhance your new look. After diy home kit bleach disasters I picked  a brazilian hair salon in London to go blonde as the head stylist and her assistant both had blonde highlights and they looked amazing. It cost £60+tip.

Having worked out that I must only use the rear camera on my Samsung to get a true image, here is my true image but using Han Ye Seul's pose, ie tilt head and cover one side with hair. Wow instantly slims my wide face especially as my right cheek is wider than my left. Will try out this look tonight in public. OH's reaction was oh gawd. How long is this going to last? Maybe I should tape my hair to cover my right cheek as I cannot walk around with my head tilted to get the hair to fall over my face? lol. First photo is facing the window for best day lighting and second is indoor lighting which makes the blonde hair more yellow. I prefer the way the blonde hair looks in daylight.


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Ms. O -  I really need this surgery.  As u can see my eyes looks tired all the time and dark circle around with a crepey skin.  The upper part of my eyes looks hollow, the eye balls looks sunken (not sure how if I describe it correctly), unlike yours u have some fats on there that makes your eyes looks young and so fresh.
> 
> Im just anxious since the fat will be injected in the eye area that it might cost something that will make me blind.
> 
> Can u still remember which part of the eye are did the dr injected the fats? Did he do both your upper and lower eye areas?  Also,  based on your previous post,  I guess the fats came from your thighs?
> 
> Im thinking if eye lift will be a better and safer choice instead.


Hi @MOTTY26 I chose fg to my upper lids as they were hollow with age. Volume loss is best replaced with volume as opposed to a lift and for upper lids, fg in experienced hands is more permanent than dermal fillers.

If you enlarge the photo of my eyelid infection you can see the punctures where fat was injected...in the eyebrow and below the eyebrow laterally.


----------



## MissOrange

Now for the beauty mode on the S9. Wow looks like the after for zygoma reduction. I am happy to pay £60 x 6 per year to stay blonde and use hair to reduce my zygoma by 1 cm on each side which is cheaper than $7000 zygoma reduction and $4000 for plate and screws to be removed a year later. Think outside of the box to achieve clinic afters and don't fall for beauty mode selfies!


----------



## verseHG

Wow, I feel with that hair color your skin looks brighter and the beauty mode selfies are so cute!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on transformations. Some transformed by going blonde (pics 3, 5), one with the power of makeup (pic 4) and others with plastic surgery. But none had zygoma reduction and instead used fat graft (pic 1) to lift the jaw and increase volume so the zygoma no longer protrudes or cheek fillers to lift the face! Thus far I have tried the power of makeup, fat grafting and now gone blonde.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on transformations. Some transformed by going blonde (pics 3, 5), one with the power of makeup (pic 4) and others with plastic surgery. But none had zygoma reduction and instead used fat graft (pic 1) to lift the jaw and increase volume so the zygoma no longer protrudes or cheek fillers to lift the face! Thus far I have tried the power of makeup, fat grafting and now gone blonde.


Wow do you know who did the first girl’s fat graft @MissOrange? The difference is amazing


----------



## Gats

heartbeep said:


> I’m the same! For my last three fat grafts, I didn’t take any of the prescribed  antibiotics coz I’m so afraid of over burdening my system!



Are antibiotics prescribed in the USA after fat grafts? I've heard Korea over prescribes meds but someone also posted pics of infections after fat grafts which destroyed their skin and tissue so I'm wondering what the right course of action is.



heartbeep said:


> Wow do you know who did the first girl’s fat graft @MissOrange? The difference is amazing



For fat grafts when you see B/A pics, try to find out when the after was taken, the real test for fg is how it looks 6+ months down the line.


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> Wow do you know who did the first girl’s fat graft @MissOrange? The difference is amazing


Jewelry plastic surgery in Korea. It is from @oilnerz ig. The ig has lots of b+a's of jewelry ps. We need someone to research this clinic!


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Are antibiotics prescribed in the USA after fat grafts? I've heard Korea over prescribes meds but someone also posted pics of infections after fat grafts which destroyed their skin and tissue so I'm wondering what the right course of action is.
> 
> 
> 
> For fat grafts when you see B/A pics, try to find out when the after was taken, the real test for fg is how it looks 6+ months down the line.


Good point @Gats. Fat grafting afters look amazing but then it absorbs over time so 1 year afters would be better to see. Also I would highly recommend girls take their prescribed antibiotics post surgery.


----------



## heartbeep

Gats said:


> Are antibiotics prescribed in the USA after fat grafts? I've heard Korea over prescribes meds but someone also posted pics of infections after fat grafts which destroyed their skin and tissue so I'm wondering what the right course of action is.
> 
> 
> 
> For fat grafts when you see B/A pics, try to find out when the after was taken, the real test for fg is how it looks 6+ months down the line.


Yup totally agree. My fat grafts always looked great the first two months, then started disappearing after that. 

Oh I had my grafts in Korea! I’m from Singapore, and the practice here is also for Doctors to prescribe antibiotics after a procedure


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Jewelry plastic surgery in Korea. It is from @oilnerz ig. The ig has lots of b+a's of jewelry ps. We need someone to research this clinic!


I found this! https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/amp...s/news-story/ac5358f32e1dbcd57a739f6921687cff

Another dodgy clinic sigh


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

heartbeep said:


> I found this! https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/amp...s/news-story/ac5358f32e1dbcd57a739f6921687cff
> 
> Another dodgy clinic sigh



I am sure they have cleaned up their act since this exposure. Doctors having a 'birthday?' party while patient is on the OR table.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> I am sure they have cleaned up their act since this exposure. Doctors having a 'birthday?' party while patient is on the OR table.


I'm sure they have now but it is weird as normally no food or drink is allowed in a sterile operating room. In some hospitals even the theatre air is purified. The concern is that if they flaunt hygiene rules what else do they do wrong? Do they not have a staff room or staff kitchen to celebrate a birthday? If I were that patient I would be mortified having paid millions of won for an operation to then see my face unconscious in a clinic instagram photo while staff hold up a lit birthday cake instead of monitoring the patient and vitals on the monitor.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on learning what the signs of aging are so you know how to fix. Here is a side by side of Britney showing natural aging. The signs are enophthalmos (more sunken eyes due to loss of fat in lids), loss of fat volume in the forehead and cheeks, and lengthening of the philtrum which then makes the nose appear shorter and also results in less teeth show. I would estimate the philtrum sags at 1 mm every 2 years so if you started at 11 mms at age 20 then by 38 your philtrum may be 20 mms long.

The good news is that this is easily reversed with fat grafting and bullhorn lip lift philtrum reduction. Now you have a go and see if you can spot the signs of aging yourself.

Here is a picture of Duchess Kate at age 36. She already shows signs of premature aging with the same enophthalmos, loss of fat volume and philtrum lengthening with less teeth show.

The best advice for young girls is to wear sunscreen +++ to try to slow down the signs of aging and limit alcohol intake. They also say childbirth ages a lady and I would agree. I aged a lot after having my 3 daughters in quick succession. Having babies felt like my youth was literally sucked away!


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on learning what the signs of aging are so you know how to fix. Here is a side by side of Britney showing natural aging. The signs are enophthalmos (more sunken eyes due to loss of fat in lids), loss of fat volume in the forehead and cheeks, and lengthening of the philtrum which then makes the nose appear shorter and also results in less teeth show. I would estimate the philtrum sags at 1 mm every 2 years so if you started at 11 mms at age 20 then by 38 your philtrum may be 20 mms long.
> 
> The good news is that this is easily reversed with fat grafting and bullhorn lip lift philtrum reduction. Now you have a go and see if you can spot the signs of aging yourself.
> 
> Here is a picture of Duchess Kate at age 36. She already shows signs of premature aging with the same enophthalmos, loss of fat volume and philtrum lengthening with less teeth show.
> 
> The best advice for young girls is to wear sunscreen +++ to try to slow down the signs of aging and limit alcohol intake. They also say childbirth ages a lady and I would agree. I aged a lot after having my 3 daughters in quick succession. Having babies felt like my youth was literally sucked away!


Oh Gosh look at how gorgeous Britney used to be!! She probably had some work done as well that kinda wrecked her face ☹️ Can’t put my finger on what though. She just looks so different


----------



## Gats

heartbeep said:


> Oh Gosh look at how gorgeous Britney used to be!! She probably had some work done as well that kinda wrecked her face ☹️ Can’t put my finger on what though. She just looks so different



She looks very natural to me, likely just botox, just appears aging got to her. Keep in mind she also keeps herself very lean which doesn't do the face any favors. When she starts up with the fillers and resulting big cheek look I normally see in stars, I'm sure we'll know it.

I think she would definitely benefit from adding volume around the eyelid and right beneath the eye bag, for the latter I seem to recall hearing fat is not recommended in that area though. Anyone know if that's true?


----------



## Chinnie

Miss orange you are so beautiful, makes me feel like there is hope for me in Korean surgeons lol


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

An area which is often forgotten. The temple area. Check pic, once hollowness has been filled, her face is less angular and aged.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> An area which is often forgotten. The temple area. Check pic, once hollowness has been filled, her face is less angular and aged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4222728


Yes by filling the temple area with fat or fillers the cheekbones do not protrude out at the sides in the frontal view. This is a great and cheaper solution to ladies afraid of zygoma reduction and its risks.

Often ladies diet and when very underweight, lose a lot of facial fat which causes facial bones to protrude or stand out more. Either gain back some weight or get fat grafting.


----------



## MissOrange

Chinnie said:


> Miss orange you are so beautiful, makes me feel like there is hope for me in Korean surgeons lol


I think fat grafting is like a liquid facelift and learning how to apply makeup with false lashes and contouring a must to complete an after look. I see some ladies keep getting more and more plastic surgery instead of realise that after photos are often achieved with the help of make-up and lashes post surgery so getting hair and makeup done professionally is better than more and more revisions and new procedures.

Hi @Chinnie I just saw your thread. Imo you do not need double jaw surgery based on your front view as we don't see a side view. The selfie shows a strong chin but it could be the angle of your camera making it appear bigger as it looks closer to the lens. Try one straight into the camera. If still prominent then only chin shaving is needed to shorten and soften the jaw and this is somethng I had done for a strong chin myself with Mr Ion in the UK. You have slight loss of fat to the forehead and lower cheeks which once filled with fg will give a more rounded lifted look to also reduce the length of your face. Try measuring the length of your head and comparing to the width. The golden ratio is 1.61. I hope this helps.


----------



## Chinnie

MissOrange said:


> I think fat grafting is like a liquid facelift and learning how to apply makeup with false lashes and contouring a must to complete an after look. I see some ladies keep getting more and more plastic surgery instead of realise that after photos are often achieved with the help of make-up and lashes post surgery so getting hair and makeup done professionally is better than more and more revisions and new procedures.
> 
> Hi @Chinnie I just saw your thread. Imo you do not need double jaw surgery based on your front view as we don't see a side view. The selfie shows a strong chin but it could be the angle of your camera making it appear bigger as it looks closer to the lens. Try one straight into the camera. If still prominent then only chin shaving is needed to shorten and soften the jaw and this is somethng I had done for a strong chin myself with Mr Ion in the UK. You have slight loss of fat to the forehead and lower cheeks which once filled with fg will give a more rounded lifted look to also reduce the length of your face. Try measuring the length of your head and comparing to the width. The golden ratio is 1.61. I hope this helps.


Yes it does help thank you! The camera exaggerates the chin for sure, its longer than golden ratio standards but not that bad. Also bulbous on my profile, but both bone and muscle there.

I definitely want the fat graft. Only 2 clinics I talked to recommended the fat graft and I know I would benefit from that, so I'm surprised no one else said anything.

Your chin and jawline look great btw  I do know when I were makeup I feel pretty good about myself however I'm not really good at doing it lol. But yeah I make it a point not to try on clothes or get my hair done without makeup because it's gonna change how I feel about myself


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is a warning of the korean plastic surgery clinics fined for photoshopping afters and fake reviews. Surprisingly Opera is on the list! http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=236587


----------



## Chinnie

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is a warning of the korean plastic surgery clinics fined for photoshopping afters and fake reviews. Surprisingly Opera is on the list! http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=236587


Even though opera is the clinic I want to go to, I'm not surprised... I could tell there were photoshops and I saw reviews here that seemed copy-paste.  These clinics have to take the photos down though, right?


----------



## MissOrange

Chinnie said:


> Even though opera is the clinic I want to go to, I'm not surprised... I could tell there were photoshops and I saw reviews here that seemed copy-paste.  These clinics have to take the photos down though, right?


I'm not sure how they police to make sure all the fake reviews and photoshopped results are removed. I guess all the more reason to find real patients to check on real results.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is an illustration of how cheek fillers create nasolabial folds. In Western culture, high cheeks are desirable but filling cheeks with fillers or fat adds weight to the skin and can cause deep nasolabial folds. Here we see supermodel Bella's transformation. By tilting her head towards the camera, the eyes and cheeks look bigger and the jaw smaller.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is a warning of the korean plastic surgery clinics fined for photoshopping afters and fake reviews. Surprisingly Opera is on the list! http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=236587


Opera's fc on a girl made her an alien,  so hideous but what's even worst was the fact that they showed her picture believing it to be a good result.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is an illustration of how cheek fillers create nasolabial folds. In Western culture, high cheeks are desirable but filling cheeks with fillers or fat adds weight to the skin and can cause deep nasolabial folds. Here we see supermodel Bella's transformation. By tilting her head towards the camera, the eyes and cheeks look bigger and the jaw smaller.



OMG, in less than 7 years (or even 4!), not only does she look older than older sister Gigi, but Bella has gone from a fresh young chav beauty to a mature Carla Bruni lookalike.  

Ageing at the age of 21 via plastic surgery, extreme dieting and permanent frowning on the catwalk.


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> OMG, in less than 7 years (or even 4!), not only does she look older than older sister Gigi, but Bella has gone from a fresh young chav beauty to a mature Carla Bruni lookalike.
> 
> Ageing at the age of 21 via plastic surgery, extreme dieting and permanent frowning on the catwalk.


I didn't know Bella was so young! I googled. You are right. She is only 22 yet now looks like a mature Carla Bruni.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> I didn't know Bella was so young! I googled. You are right. She is only 22 yet now looks like a mature Carla Bruni.


----------



## Fortunecat

Oh my goodness.
This does not sound good.


----------



## Chinnie

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is an illustration of how cheek fillers create nasolabial folds. In Western culture, high cheeks are desirable but filling cheeks with fillers or fat adds weight to the skin and can cause deep nasolabial folds. Here we see supermodel Bella's transformation. By tilting her head towards the camera, the eyes and cheeks look bigger and the jaw smaller.


See this is the problem with American surgeons. They think bigger is better and that's why you see all these botched patients. Cheek implant look awful imo unless it is correcting a bone issue etx. Then they like to overfill everything, giving a puffy face with joker smile and duck mouth, and go crazy with that botox making people look like klingon with no expression.


----------



## Gats

Chinnie said:


> See this is the problem with American surgeons. They think bigger is better and that's why you see all these botched patients. Cheek implant look awful imo unless it is correcting a bone issue etx. Then they like to overfill everything, giving a puffy face with joker smile and duck mouth, and go crazy with that botox making people look like klingon with no expression.



Can you believe doctors would purposefully do this? I'll give Korea credit for not going crazy with the fillers as I rarely see overfilled faces (the desire for smaller faces explains that I guess), meanwhile in the USA I see doctors overfilling their own faces so I know it's not some mistake but rather an actual look they are going for. It's so weird.


----------



## puuuuuured

Gats said:


> Can you believe doctors would purposefully do this? I'll give Korea credit for not going crazy with the fillers as I rarely see overfilled faces (the desire for smaller faces explains that I guess), meanwhile in the USA I see doctors overfilling their own faces so I know it's not some mistake but rather an actual look they are going for. It's so weird.


What happened to him??? I respect him if he is happy with the new look for real because then he is such a brave man. If not..omg,


----------



## heartbeep

missy_sana said:


> OMG, in less than 7 years (or even 4!), not only does she look older than older sister Gigi, but Bella has gone from a fresh young chav beauty to a mature Carla Bruni lookalike.
> 
> Ageing at the age of 21 via plastic surgery, extreme dieting and permanent frowning on the catwalk.


I do agree she looks older after the procedures she’s had. But I somehow think she looks prettier now? Older but prettier if that makes sense! Her features used to be rather blunt and meh, but she looks so refined and exotic now!


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## Gats

puuuuuured said:


> What happened to him??? I respect him if he is happy with the new look for real because then he is such a brave man. If not..omg,



They're actually twins, google Bogdanoff twins for more info. I'm not sure what they were thinking putting that much filler into the cheek and chin area.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on angle of facial convexity. Before you pay huge sums for 2 jaw surgery, do your own research as to whether you need this costly invasive procedure or not. Thank goodness I did not agree to this when a korean clinic suggested this for my before. I even saught an opinion from a nhs maxfax surgeon 20 years ago who suggested a cadaver premaxilla implant saying my lower jaw was fine?! I decided against. Once you work out logically what is at fault then find the least invasive way to correct. In my case chin shaving with sonopet (ultrasonic knife) in the UK corrected my lack of angle of convexity for £3k. Unfortunately this least invasive procedure is not yet offered in korea and often times osteotomy with titanium plate with screws fixation is pushed.


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## MissOrange

Today's second post is on facial widths. After losing 2.6 lbs weight as I felt my cheeks have too much fat, I re-measured my facial width and it has gone down from 15 cms to 14 cms (see photo)! This means even the slightest weight gain can make the fg expand your face width-wise! For those who have had fg, another thing to monitor! The good news is now I have no logical reason to consider zygoma reduction. The golden ratio of face width to head length has now been achieved.


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## mlydzz

heartbeep said:


> I do agree she looks older after the procedures she’s had. But I somehow think she looks prettier now? Older but prettier if that makes sense! Her features used to be rather blunt and meh, but she looks so refined and exotic now!


Exactly what i was thinking. I understand the backlash from other people saying she looks bad but people need to understand that not everyone has the same beauty standards. I fall in between  being a fan of east asian and western beauty and Bella looks so much better now for sure.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on weight loss to create a small face. In my pursuit to look like hys I have noted how slim she is and if the online stats are correct of a height of 1.65 m and weight of 46 kg that would put her below a bmi of 17 which is anorexia but maybe needs to be adjusted for racial differences as a bmi of 17 or 17.5 may just be underweight in asians as hys does not look anorexic in the conventional sense.

My youngest daughter is also tall and very slim with a small face. Could a small face be linked with being very slim? If so then my face should shrink with weight loss?

I have often wondered what a girl's face would look like if she just lost weight on a liquid or soft food diet for a few weeks like girls who do this after zygoma and/or v line surgery and lose a lot of weight due to inability to eat solids for weeks. Can you achieve the same results but without bone surgery? I say this because of the miniscule amounts of v line bone removed that I have seen in girls I met in korea who showed me the photos of the bones removed.

Soooo I shall continue on my diet in my quest for hys's small face without zygoma surgery.

I think my face is already shrinking at a bmi of 18.7 and will take measurements again at a bmi of 18.

For those needing to lose weight, foods low in calories are honeydew melon at 30 calories a serving, strawberries at 30 calories a serving, boiled rice at 130 calories a serving, salmon, mushrooms at 55 calories a serving, bran cereal at 250 calories with low fat milk, miso soup, heinz spaghetti at 200 calories a tin, spaghetti bolognese at 350 calories, soups in general, and try to avoid foods high in calories like korean, Indian and chinese takeaways, cakes, chocolate and a complete ban on alcohol while on a diet as even a sip of alcohol increases one's appetite.


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## Fortunecat

Won't a low BMI affect her bodily functions? With such a low BMI and being underweight, wouldn't a female start to have irregular menses?
In my thread for mini liposuction at 365mc, the consultant told me that my ideal weight is 55.6kg despite me at 1.63cm tall and 59.7kg.
Its better to have a healthy body than a small face! Well... at least, that's for me.


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Can you believe doctors would purposefully do this? I'll give Korea credit for not going crazy with the fillers as I rarely see overfilled faces (the desire for smaller faces explains that I guess), meanwhile in the USA I see doctors overfilling their own faces so I know it's not some mistake but rather an actual look they are going for. It's so weird.


Hi @Gats this is a case of overuse of dermal fillers in the US intead of advanced fat grafting to rejuvenate. Just like facelifts have come a long way but for some they lived in the wrong generation and got wind tunnel facelifts. It is sad when we see some stars get the wrong procedures but pleased when we see aging stars who get it right like Jane Seymour and Christie Brinkley.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Won't a low BMI affect her bodily functions? With such a low BMI and being underweight, wouldn't a female start to have irregular menses?
> In my thread for mini liposuction at 365mc, the consultant told me that my ideal weight is 55.6kg despite me at 1.63cm tall and 59.7kg.
> Its better to have a healthy body than a small face! Well... at least, that's for me.


Hi @Fortunecat I worked out the consultant's recommended bmi is 20.9 which is the low end of normal weight not underweight. Maybe he or she was trying to save you the cost of future liposuction by suggesting a weight for you? I know I still have batwings at a bmi of 18.7 so for me I need to see what weight my body needs to get to to get rid of flabby batwings. I was tempted by Fresh's ig video on arm lipo with immediate results! I have already noticed my love handles are going down though so no point in me booking lipo as by the time I fly to korea my arms would have shrunk. I am doing this to study face sizes as it never occurred to me that all these k stars with small faces may have small faces because of bmis of 17? And yes this would cause lanugo baby hair and no menses so of course am not advocating this which is why I am aiming for 18 in my experiment on myself. I used to measure body measurements but never face when losing weight! My waist is 25 inches so I can go down to 24 and then measure my face again. I have been 23 inches in the past but if that is what hys has, then I cannot maintain that.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat I worked out the consultant's recommended bmi is 20.9 which is the low end of normal weight not underweight. Maybe he or she was trying to save you the cost of future liposuction by suggesting a weight for you? I know I still have batwings at a bmi of 18.7 so for me I need to see what weight my body needs to get to to get rid of flabby batwings. I was tempted by Fresh's ig video on arm lipo with immediate results! I have already noticed my love handles are going down though so no point in me booking lipo as by the time I fly to korea my arms would have shrunk. I am doing this to study face sizes as it never occurred to me that all these k stars with small faces may have small faces because of bmis of 17? And yes this would cause lanugo baby hair and no menses so of course am not advocating this which is why I am aiming for 18 in my experiment on myself. I used to measure body measurements but never face when losing weight! My waist is 25 inches so I can go down to 24 and then measure my face again. I have been 23 inches in the past but if that is what hys has, then I cannot maintain that.



But if you were to lose more weight, wouldn't it affect the fat grafts on your face?
I won't compare myself with those K stars because they are skinny with no muscles. 

Miss Orange, you are already looking so good. You are already the top of your league.

I have batwings as well. The reason why I did not do arm lipo at 365mc is because Dr Ha at Reneweme saw my arm muscles and she pinched my batwings so many times and concluded that it is no point doing my arms. The nurse consultant at 365mc merely just looked at my arms and quoted me a price. I guess that's why it works to go to different places for consultation.


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## MissOrange

Okay I have looked up an asian bmi calculator and actually the only difference is that the bmi is lower for overweight, ie concerns are raised at a bmi of 23 and not 25. It still advocates a bmi of 18.5 to be healthy for asians and caucasians.

I found a site that claims hys is 37-25-35 so I doubt her bmi is 16.6. I guess we have to take info on the web with a grain of salt. I am currently at the ideal bmi for my stats and 18 would put me under.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> But if you were to lose more weight, wouldn't it affect the fat grafts on your face?
> I won't compare myself with those K stars because they are skinny with no muscles.
> 
> Miss Orange, you are already looking so good. You are already the top of your league.
> 
> I have batwings as well. The reason why I did not do arm lipo at 365mc is because Dr Ha at Reneweme saw my arm muscles and she pinched my batwings so many times and concluded that it is no point doing my arms. The nurse consultant at 365mc merely just looked at my arms and quoted me a price. I guess that's why it works to go to different places for consultation.


Good point @Fortunecat the more weight I lose, the more fg diaappears. Sigh. I like the sound of 98 lbs, my weight in India which is 44.5 kgs so maybe a bmi of 18-18.5. The more I think about it the more I wonder if hys had zygoma reduction as her cheeks were wider in her earlier photos. Sigh.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on aging celebs who look fab. I never thought I would need to consider a FL at age 80 yet here is Jane Fonda after a FL at 80! Now I need to know who her ps was! She looks 30 years younger! Ugh this means I face 30 more years of high end maintenance until I too am 80. Anti-aging is hard work and maintenance never ending. Sigh.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on aging celebs who look fab. I never thought I would need to consider a FL at age 80 yet here is Jane Fonda after a FL at 80! Now I need to know who her ps was! She looks 30 years younger! Ugh this means I face 30 more years of high end maintenance until I too am 80. Anti-aging is hard work and maintenance never ending. Sigh.



She didn't have her facelift at 80. She is 80 this year. She had a full facelift in her 70's? from memory. Then she said she was done! However had her eyes done again. A while later she said she noticed her neck was sagging so she had another necklift. Since the full facelift she has had mall tweaks here and there. But she does look great.
Factors that help her:
(a) She's mobile and has no dementia and in good health.
(b) She has the money to dress in high end fashion. I've priced her outfits and they are in the thousands. No granny clothes for her. Plus she's maintained a great weight and figure.
(c) A very full head of hair.  Joan Collins also in her 80's took to wearing wigs for the last 20 years. Ditto Raquel Welch 78, she wears her own line of wigs. Even Jaclyn Smith 72 sometimes wears her own line of wigs. As one dermatologist said no women will have the hair they had in their 20's after menopause. Lastly great teeth or at least veneers.  BTW both Raquel and Jaclyn have never had a facelift, minor tweaks and of course fillers etc.
The biggest factor is GOOD HEALTH. You have to look at your family's medical history to see how you would fare having major surgery for your looks if you were not 100% in good health.  Finally a wee factor Jane is worth over $200m, Raquel is worth $30m, Jaclyn is now worth $90m due to her fashion, wig and homeware line.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

I don't know about you but I would prefer to be the 'before' picture for youthfulness.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

Taiwanese designer who is 43. She still has her natural baby fat, that's her secret.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Taiwanese designer who is 43. She still has her natural baby fat, that's her secret.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4228530


Here's some more "so cray" - urban slang for crazy for the older folks. He he. At 43 I used to look in my 20's (according to others) but she beats me.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Here's some more "so cray" - urban slang for crazy for the older folks. He he. At 43 I used to look in my 20's (according to others) but she beats me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4228531



Obviously genetics play a big part.  In some countries they would be considered "middle age".


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Obviously genetics play a big part.  In some countries they would be considered "middle age".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4228534



Asians and Blacks age well.  Cicely Tyson still acting at 93. I love her grey wig.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

This facelift is amazing. With facial contouring, the doctor seems to have altered her bone structure. She had the works done of course. SMAS, neck lift, brow lift. Rhinoplasty. FG to her lips and cheeks.


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> This facelift is amazing. With facial contouring, the doctor seems to have altered her bone structure. She had the works done of course. SMAS, neck lift, brow lift. Rhinoplasty. FG to her lips and cheeks.


Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 where did you find this amazing transformation? Which clinic? Which country? Which doctor? You have left us in suspense! 

I am going even lighter on Friday with toner. Absolutely love these blonde highlights. I wish I hadn't waited until I was 52! lol. It made my day when a lady at a canteen in the queue told the staff to serve the young lady first. I looked around, no other lady next to her but me! lol.


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> She didn't have her facelift at 80. She is 80 this year. She had a full facelift in her 70's? from memory. Then she said she was done! However had her eyes done again. A while later she said she noticed her neck was sagging so she had another necklift. Since the full facelift she has had mall tweaks here and there. But she does look great.
> Factors that help her:
> (a) She's mobile and has no dementia and in good health.
> (b) She has the money to dress in high end fashion. I've priced her outfits and they are in the thousands. No granny clothes for her. Plus she's maintained a great weight and figure.
> (c) A very full head of hair.  Joan Collins also in her 80's took to wearing wigs for the last 20 years. Ditto Raquel Welch 78, she wears her own line of wigs. Even Jaclyn Smith 72 sometimes wears her own line of wigs. As one dermatologist said no women will have the hair they had in their 20's after menopause. Lastly great teeth or at least veneers.  BTW both Raquel and Jaclyn have never had a facelift, minor tweaks and of course fillers etc.
> The biggest factor is GOOD HEALTH. You have to look at your family's medical history to see how you would fare having major surgery for your looks if you were not 100% in good health.  Finally a wee factor Jane is worth over $200m, Raquel is worth $30m, Jaclyn is now worth $90m due to her fashion, wig and homeware line.
> View attachment 4228472
> View attachment 4228494
> View attachment 4228495


Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 you did a lot of research! I love your posts! You can write all my thread posts and I can just sit back and read! Sooo I have to invest in wigs when my hair continues to fall out!!! I am 3 years post menop. Ugh it feels like I want to panic each time I brush my hair and see hair strands in the brush! I have decided not to brush my hair every day now and too scared to wash it every day as I don't want to lose my natural hair! I am sure it has thinned to 50% due to post menop and that traumatic hair transplant. I am so grateful for having thick hair growing up as I needed it to get me through menop. I think the next stage in growing old is adding hair extensions in my 60s and then wigs in my 70s. Sigh. I better not end up wearing dentures. I don't think I shall make 80 as everyone on my dad's side seems to get a stroke in their mid 70s! I need to focus on living life to the max as my clock is ticking down! Only 23 years left on Earth! Holy smokes!


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 you did a lot of research! I love your posts! You can write all my thread posts and I can just sit back and read! Sooo I have to invest in wigs when my hair continues to fall out!!! I am 3 years post menop. Ugh it feels like I want to panic each time I brush my hair and see hair strands in the brush! I have decided not to brush my hair every day now and too scared to wash it every day as I don't want to lose my natural hair! I am sure it has thinned to 50% due to post menop and that traumatic hair transplant. I am so grateful for having thick hair growing up as I needed it to get me through menop. I think the next stage in growing old is adding hair extensions in my 60s and then wigs in my 70s. Sigh. I better not end up wearing dentures. I don't think I shall make 80 as everyone on my dad's side seems to get a stroke in their mid 70s! I need to focus on living life to the max as my clock is ticking down! Only 23 years left on Earth! Holy smokes!



From my experience with hair extensions. Firstly I had real Italian hair, very long, which are $1,000 plus. Then they can't be recycled and they will fall out. Your hair will fall out at the same rate, so you will find all these gorgeous long hair on the floor but they can't be reused!!! Finally the worst part is, when I had them removed, the extensions will actually weaken your own hair. That's why celebs like Jennifer Aniston, Kim K needs to chop their hair after years of extensions.
PRP works but only lasts 10-12 months. But the first 24 hours you can't wash your hair and you smell of blood all night! Disgusting. Also costing around $2K. Best solution is hair transplants but using FUE.
LOL did you know laser hair removal doesn't work on grey hairs? I didn't start getting Brazilian on bikini line and further down until I was 65. I only have about 6 grey hairs but they keep growing. I can't see that far down to pluck and asked salon to do it. They said no but they can wax for me. Hate grey pubic hairs - signals old lady.


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## MissOrange

@SheOnlyLooks25 thank you for the info on hair extensions. Tmi on the 6 grey hairs but I can relate as I found 1 grey eyelash and freaked out and plucked it out. I shouldn't as in a decade I will end up with no eyelashes! Must relax and just apply mascara.

Btw have you heard of Plantur 39 caffeinated shampoo? Seems to get good amazon reviews for hair growth in us postmenop ladies? I just bought keune for dry damaged bleached hair but now thinking I need to also try plantur 39?

Today's post is on good antiaging results. Here is Christie Brinkley who is now in her 60s. I still think she had too much cheek filler which has weighted her cheeks and created deep nasolabial folds but still a very good result and perhaps needs upper lid fg as her eyes are deeply set. The maxilla bone recedes with age so doesn't quite match her younger picture but her philtrum length is a match.

The problem with trying to look younger is the fear of being labelled mutton dressed as lamb. I dread this. And it is a fine line between getting antiaging right where it is convincing and people accept you as looking young or getting it a bit off and the public can spot you don't quite have it right and are actually older. If you want to look 20-30 years younger you have to get your hair and fashion to match a younger face too or you give the game away or as my eldest daughter says stop dressing like a grannie to me. Uhoh.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> This facelift is amazing. With facial contouring, the doctor seems to have altered her bone structure. She had the works done of course. SMAS, neck lift, brow lift. Rhinoplasty. FG to her lips and cheeks.



Oops - sorry girls, my typing is so bad with my bad eyesight. WHAT I MEANT TO SAY was "without" facial contouring, the doctor seems to have altered her bone structure...


----------



## GPR

MissOrange,
I realize you are very slim, but if I remember correctly you had a liposuction sometime in your life. Do you have any recommendation on clinic/doctors?


----------



## MissOrange

GPR said:


> MissOrange,
> I realize you are very slim, but if I remember correctly you had a liposuction sometime in your life. Do you have any recommendation on clinic/doctors?


Hi @GPR, I had regular lipo and then vaser lipo to my abdomen and inner thighs over a decade ago with Dr Maurizio Viel of Harley Street. He is good. In Korea it looks like Ruby clinic and Fresh clinic may be good for lipo. I met a girl in korea who went on to get lipo at Ruby for a good price and result. Fresh Instagram videos are impressive for lipo.


----------



## georgiarikako

lol!! 
That is one solid
4DFacelift


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## SheOnlyLooks25

Comments are divided. She had long lasting fillers done to her jawline. Many are saying she was prettier before.


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## Gats

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Comments are divided. She had long lasting fillers done to her jawline. Many are saying she was prettier before.



From that view I don't have a strong opinion on what looks better, however from the front it might make her look more square jawish rather than oval/heart shape.

For someone with jowls, I wonder if adding all that volume to the jawline would help since the skin would be pulled back somewhat.


----------



## GPR

MissOrange said:


> Hi @GPR, I had regular lipo and then vaser lipo to my abdomen and inner thighs over a decade ago with Dr Maurizio Viel of Harley Street. He is good. In Korea it looks like Ruby clinic and Fresh clinic may be good for lipo. I met a girl in korea who went on to get lipo at Ruby for a good price and result. Fresh Instagram videos are impressive for lipo.



Thanks a bunch!


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## GPR

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Comments are divided. She had long lasting fillers done to her jawline. Many are saying she was prettier before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4231622



I think she looks prettier after and strangely thinner?? She doesn't seem to have chin fat anymore.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is a comparison and analysis into whether we actually need full face fat graft or should we be focussing on finding a healthy weight that fills out our faces naturally? Go have a look at the befores of girls who get full face fg and invariably they are too skinny to begin with, ie they lost too much volume from their faces. Here is a collage of me in July 2016 2 months after my upper lid fg with revision des with skin excision and removal and ptosis correction and days after vermillion lip lift when I was denied a full face fg at mvp as I was told I did not need it (and I totally agree I should have listened instead of go to DAPRS 2 days after this collage and get my first of 4 full face fat grafts). The top right is earlier this month, ie 8 months post my 4th full face fg. As you can see no real difference and in all 4 photos I am at a healthy 99 lbs and not 94 lbs which was my weight when my face looked old and bony which I relied on to convince myself I needed full face fg or 96 lbs the day I had my 4th full face fg for a flat face. So in hindsight, ladies find your optimum weight and only get fat graft for hollowed lids if they remain hollow at your optimum weight (anywhere in the normal weight bmi range). Do not lose a lot of weight, then say oh I look old and saggy and then start a costly impulsive ps journey when all you did was lose too much weight ie volume from your face like I did. Sigh. Remember fat graft is good for temples and upper eyelid hollows. Otherwise work out your bmi and gain a few healthy lbs in weight to add youthful volume to your face.

Today I get more toner in my hair to go blonder. Living in the UK I find it better to be blonde and more Caucasian looking for better treatment in public and if I lived in Korea, I would want to look more Korean to fit into their society. The good news is that with hair and makeup I can look either Korean or Caucasian as the need arises and no more plastic surgery for me!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post shows how natural weight gain adds fat to your face better than fg. With full face fg the skin is loosened to accommodate the canula and I call it the thigh fat graft has a mind of its own. When it is hot out and I am dehydrated, the fg cells shrink causing the lower face to deflate big time (left top photo taken a couple of months ago- 4 fgs later). When I eat a meal with msg or fat the fg swells up giving me balloon face (also a couple of months ago but after a meal with msg and then a scone with clotted cream). And only with hard work do I look normal, ie the right balance of water intake and diet, and right angles and lighting for selfies.

The second photo in the navy jumper shows me at 94 lbs with an old and bony face Feb 2016 that prompted me to seek ps 2.5 years ago and then 4 months later looking great in a white jacket with natural weight gain of 5 lbs June 2016 before I embarked on my full face fg journey a month later in July 2016 after these 2 natural weight gain June photos in profile and front view. As you can see I never needed full face fg and Ellen at mvp was right to have refused this procedure back in 2016. Sadly we sometimes forget to listen when friends try to give us advice and now I am forever monitoring and managing this thigh fg in my face as well as saggy skin in my lower face and more so in my left inner thigh than right as it had an extra lipo from fg taken from just one thigh by DA.

The lesson of the day is determine whether your face is bony due to weight loss and not zygoma protrusion and instead of fg try to gain 5 lbs and see if your face looks fine. If you are of normal weight and still think you need fg then try dermal fillers first.

It is too late for me as my lower face has been permanently stretched by fg x 4 and yet each ps refuses me smas FL and one suggested threadlift but this is £1400 for 6 months benefit. It is illogical to me as to why young girls of 30 or ladies my age can get smas yet I am denied? Is smas like fg causing more sagging from skin separation and pulling? But the skin gets excised and muscles tightened?

The 3 pictures in the previous Friday's post also show my face before my full face fg journey and taken 2 days before daprs proceeded to inject fg all over my beautiful natural fat face. It shows that some clinics will still proceed and change a beautiful face just for money. .

We rarely read of fg follow up 2+ years later so my journey shows you how fg forces you to keep flying back for top ups until you are strong enough to live with a deflated face long enough to be allowed to get smas.

So whether you have spent a lot on just one face fg that disappears in 1-3 months and leaves you with a saggy or deflated face or spent +++ on 4 full face fgs, my advice is don't get it done anywhere but your temples and upper lids and try natural weight gain to fill out your face.


----------



## heartbeep

MissOrange said:


> Today's post shows how natural weight gain adds fat to your face better than fg. With full face fg the skin is loosened to accommodate the canula and I call it the thigh fat graft has a mind of its own. When it is hot out and I am dehydrated, the fg cells shrink causing the lower face to deflate big time (left top photo taken a couple of months ago- 4 fgs later). When I eat a meal with msg or fat the fg swells up giving me balloon face (also a couple of months ago but after a meal with msg and then a scone with clotted cream). And only with hard work do I look normal, ie the right balance of water intake and diet, and right angles and lighting for selfies.
> 
> The second photo in the navy jumper shows me at 94 lbs with an old and bony face Feb 2016 that prompted me to seek ps 2.5 years ago and then 4 months later looking great in a white jacket with natural weight gain of 5 lbs June 2016 before I embarked on my full face fg journey a month later in July 2016 after these 2 natural weight gain June photos in profile and front view. As you can see I never needed full face fg and Ellen at mvp was right to have refused this procedure back in 2016. Sadly we sometimes forget to listen when friends try to give us advice and now I am forever monitoring and managing this thigh fg in my face as well as saggy skin in my lower face and more so in my left inner thigh than right as it had an extra lipo from fg taken from just one thigh by DA.
> 
> The lesson of the day is determine whether your face is bony due to weight loss and not zygoma protrusion and instead of fg try to gain 5 lbs and see if your face looks fine. If you are of normal weight and still think you need fg then try dermal fillers first.
> 
> It is too late for me as my lower face has been permanently stretched by fg x 4 and yet each ps refuses me smas FL and one suggested threadlift but this is £1400 for 6 months benefit. It is illogical to me as to why young girls of 30 or ladies my age can get smas yet I am denied? Is smas like fg causing more sagging from skin separation and pulling? But the skin gets excised and muscles tightened?
> 
> The 3 pictures in the previous Friday's post also show my face before my full face fg journey and taken 2 days before daprs proceeded to inject fg all over my beautiful natural fat face. It shows that some clinics will still proceed and change a beautiful face just for money. .
> 
> We rarely read of fg follow up 2+ years later so my journey shows you how fg forces you to keep flying back for top ups until you are strong enough to live with a deflated face long enough to be allowed to get smas.
> 
> So whether you have spent a lot on just one face fg that disappears in 1-3 months and leaves you with a saggy or deflated face or spent +++ on 4 full face fgs, my advice is don't get it done anywhere but your temples and upper lids and try natural weight gain to fill out your face.


@MissOrange, I think your face looks most youthful in the top right photo (the one where your clothes are not visible). Was this before or after fg?


----------



## Fortunecat

I have always thought that if we inject any fillers or fat grafts or anything to plump up our face, we will be creating a space between our skin and natural fats and our face will start to sag when the fillers or fat grafts disappeared because our natural fats loses its adhesion to either the skin or skull. Hence, until now, I have not done any of those stuff yet. When I went to do Ultherapy, the doctor has suggested that I could have some fillers in the future when I start to have nasolabial folds but I think I will reject that idea. It seems that once we start to age, our face starts to sag and maybe it might sag at a faster pace if we had any interventions done. Hmm...


----------



## MissOrange

heartbeep said:


> @MissOrange, I think your face looks most youthful in the top right photo (the one where your clothes are not visible). Was this before or after fg?


Ah @heartbeep that is my balloon face after 4 fgs and a korean lunch with msg. If you like that look then fg can create it and keep eating salty foods. The downside is the deflation that occurs after the food has absorbed and you forget to drink water. For me, I prefer a flatter smaller face like hys.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> I have always thought that if we inject any fillers or fat grafts or anything to plump up our face, we will be creating a space between our skin and natural fats and our face will start to sag when the fillers or fat grafts disappeared because our natural fats loses its adhesion to either the skin or skull. Hence, until now, I have not done any of those stuff yet. When I went to do Ultherapy, the doctor has suggested that I could have some fillers in the future when I start to have nasolabial folds but I think I will reject that idea. It seems that once we start to age, our face starts to sag and maybe it might sag at a faster pace if we had any interventions done. Hmm...


You're absolutely right @Fortunecat. Anything injected to expand the facial skin stretches it too! I suppose if it is a wee filler amount, then the skin elasticity can shrink back but the volumes used for fg can be substantial like 50 ccs! And there is the weight of the fg to take into account as it weighs down the cheeks. I think my cheeks are sitting lower than before any fg.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

I never paid much attention to Madonna's actual face shape. Current picture is by Paps yesterday (at age 60) so no photo editing by her, except the one selfie she took at night included in pic. Comments from most men is that she's hideous now.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> I never paid much attention to Madonna's actual face shape. Current picture is by Paps yesterday (at age 60) so no photo editing by her, except the one selfie she took at night included in pic. Comments from most men is that she's hideous now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4238945
> View attachment 4238948


@SheOnlyLooks25 I am trying to figure out what Madonna had done now. Maybe botox or brow lift has widened the gap between her eyes and brows? I am actually trying to lower my brows as this seems to look better!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> @SheOnlyLooks25 I am trying to figure out what Madonna had done now. Maybe botox or brow lift has widened the gap between her eyes and brows? I am actually trying to lower my brows as this seems to look better!


She’s had a mini facelift to her lower face years ago. Eye job. Tons of fillers and Botox.
But what is surprising is she has a BIG matronly face! IMO it makes her look old.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> She’s had a mini facelift to her lower face years ago. Eye job. Tons of fillers and Botox.
> But what is surprising is she has a BIG matronly face! IMO it makes her look old.



And she’s super fit and not fat at all.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> And she’s super fit and not fat at all.





MissOrange said:


> You're absolutely right @Fortunecat. Anything injected to expand the facial skin stretches it too! I suppose if it is a wee filler amount, then the skin elasticity can shrink back but the volumes used for fg can be substantial like 50 ccs! And there is the weight of the fg to take into account as it weighs down the cheeks. I think my cheeks are sitting lower than before any fg.



Dr Chia Chi Kao, Board Certified PS has been named by W Mag as the go to doctor to mini-facelift. He is based in Santa Monica. His Ponytail lift involves very little cutting and virtually no pulling. Kao re-drapes skin and soft tissue vertically and uses tiny stitches to tighten underlying muscles. He then contours and volumizes with a fine layer of regenerative-cell-rich fat taken from the patient’s own body.  He won't be cheap.


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange You mentioned that you had both traditional lipo as well as Vaser lipo, why is that so? Is it possible to have liposuction at the same area for more than once?


----------



## HashtagGoals

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Comments are divided. She had long lasting fillers done to her jawline. Many are saying she was prettier before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4231622



I love her after results!


----------



## Gats

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Dr Chia Chi Kao, Board Certified PS has been named by W Mag as the go to doctor to mini-facelift. He is based in Santa Monica. His Ponytail lift involves very little cutting and virtually no pulling. Kao re-drapes skin and soft tissue vertically and uses tiny stitches to tighten underlying muscles. He then contours and volumizes with a fine layer of regenerative-cell-rich fat taken from the patient’s own body.  He won't be cheap.



I'm curious if during facelift they could place fat directly underneath the skin given the skin is already peeled back. If you're not squeamish, here's a video of buccal fat removal that was performed with face lift, I assume fg would just be opposite where fat is placed instead of removed: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFLgFRmPyE

We don't see the whole surgery but I'm wondering how hard it was to peel up the skin to expose underneath like that, I imagine taking away that natural adhesion of the skin to tissue must have consequences.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Gats said:


> I'm curious if during facelift they could place fat directly underneath the skin given the skin is already peeled back. If you're not squeamish, here's a video of buccal fat removal that was performed with face lift, I assume fg would just be opposite where fat is placed instead of removed: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyFLgFRmPyE
> 
> We don't see the whole surgery but I'm wondering how hard it was to peel up the skin to expose underneath like that, I imagine taking away that natural adhesion of the skin to tissue must have consequences.



You HAVE to do that during an MACS lift, definitely during an SMAS lift, hence the swelling and people freaking out about it. You are lifting the muscles and re-draping them, you are going to rebuild the foundation otherwise you are going to end up with the OLD WIND TUNNEL LOOK from last century that everyone hates and just pulling skin, which does not last.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Dr Chia Chi Kao, Board Certified PS has been named by W Mag as the go to doctor to mini-facelift. He is based in Santa Monica. His Ponytail lift involves very little cutting and virtually no pulling. Kao re-drapes skin and soft tissue vertically and uses tiny stitches to tighten underlying muscles. He then contours and volumizes with a fine layer of regenerative-cell-rich fat taken from the patient’s own body.  He won't be cheap.



Man, I love his work. No wonder he was listed under Best In The World for lower facelifts.  Saving my pennies to go to him. Sample of his Ponytail life, you go in as the 'mother' and come out as the 'daughter'.


----------



## Gats

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Man, I love his work. No wonder he was listed under Best In The World for lower facelifts.  Saving my pennies to go to him. Sample of his Ponytail life, you go in as the 'mother' and come out as the 'daughter'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4240196



Amazing work, have you seen anything like this coming out of Korea? Besides facelift, I'm seeing lip lift and bleph. Can anyone spot anything else?


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Gats said:


> Amazing work, have you seen anything like this coming out of Korea? Besides facelift, I'm seeing lip lift and bleph. Can anyone spot anything else?



I didn't even notice her bullhorn lift. I thought the lips were lifted by the mini facelift. Now that you've pointed it out, the distance between her lips to her nose is halved, hence her lips are fuller. 

The other thing he does, which I think is his secret weapon, is enriching his fat with stem cells. He calls this Powered Sugar Fat. See attached woman 4 years post, still looking good.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> I didn't even notice her bullhorn lift. I thought the lips were lifted by the mini facelift. Now that you've pointed it out, the distance between her lips to her nose is halved, hence her lips are fuller.
> 
> The other thing he does, which I think is his secret weapon, is enriching his fat with stem cells. He calls this Powered Sugar Fat. See attached woman 4 years post, still looking good.
> 
> View attachment 4240432



So torn. Go the whole hog and have an SMAS and minor tweaks in my later years or go for this minimally invasive facelift.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange You mentioned that you had both traditional lipo as well as Vaser lipo, why is that so? Is it possible to have liposuction at the same area for more than once?


I had them 2 years apart in the same tummy and inner thigh area by the same UK plastic surgeon.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Fun fact (not). 
A little-known complication called post-operative delirium that most doctors don’t tell you about. The condition is often marked by memory disturbances, confusion and hallucinations.

In 2014, the suicide of British jewellery designer Sandra d’Auriol, 53, who jumped from the roof of a Beverly Hills clinic after coming round from a facelift, was attributed to the phenomenon.

And in rare cases, the psychosis can become permanent. The risk – and severity – also increases with age.

Richard Lindley, 82, had been admitted to the Royal London Hospital in July for a minor procedure to correct a drooping eyelid. But according to his wife, the broadcaster Carole Stone, he came out of the operating theatre a completely different man


----------



## EvaCandy

MissOrange said:


> Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 you did a lot of research! I love your posts! You can write all my thread posts and I can just sit back and read! Sooo I have to invest in wigs when my hair continues to fall out!!! I am 3 years post menop. Ugh it feels like I want to panic each time I brush my hair and see hair strands in the brush! I have decided not to brush my hair every day now and too scared to wash it every day as I don't want to lose my natural hair! I am sure it has thinned to 50% due to post menop and that traumatic hair transplant. I am so grateful for having thick hair growing up as I needed it to get me through menop. I think the next stage in growing old is adding hair extensions in my 60s and then wigs in my 70s. Sigh. I better not end up wearing dentures. I don't think I shall make 80 as everyone on my dad's side seems to get a stroke in their mid 70s! I need to focus on living life to the max as my clock is ticking down! Only 23 years left on Earth! Holy smokes!


MiisO do you take enough calcium? Although no one talks about lack of calcium as a cause of hair loss but if you don't consume enough calcium, especially in your menopause, you will see hair loss. My hair loss stop after I started adding a good calcium supplement. I take at least 250 mg, twice a day. Also get your blood ferritin checked. If your hair loss is androgen related you may benefit from taking saw palmetto and stinging nettle. But start with calcium first. You will notice some results in number of hair falling out in a week. Also if you take anti-histamine it will mess with your hair cycle.


----------



## MissOrange

EvaCandy said:


> MiisO do you take enough calcium? Although no one talks about lack of calcium as a cause of hair loss but if you don't consume enough calcium, especially in your menopause, you will see hair loss. My hair loss stop after I started adding a good calcium supplement. I take at least 250 mg, twice a day. Also get your blood ferritin checked. If your hair loss is androgen related you may benefit from taking saw palmetto and stinging nettle. But start with calcium first. You will notice some results in number of hair falling out in a week. Also if you take anti-histamine it will mess with your hair cycle.


Thank you @EvaCandy! Wow I take fish oils and Vitamin D but never thought of calcium. Although I do eat ice cream daily despite being lactose intolerant as I love H-D's praline and cream flavour. I will give calcium supplements a try.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is a fun post on trying to copy hys's ig pose. Instead of obsessing over the need for zygoma reduction, I have used hair and camera angles to try to match her small face. She also uses a hand, hair, reclining and angle to create a lifted look. I haven't got her eye make up matched as I don't have pink eyeshadow. Will get lighter blonde highlights on Tuesday. Can't do anything about my shorter chin as I got my chin bone shaved and do not want to put a chin implant in. Looks like I need to make my lips smaller too with less lipstick.


----------



## MissOrange

Here are my latest photos 9 months post ulthera and 4th full face fg. The eyelids are still full. Yay. My weight yesterday was 100.6 lbs or almost 4 lbs more than when I had the surgeries in Feb at 96.8 lbs. Somehow the combination of natural fat weight gain and after effects of ulthera with 4th fg top up have created a facial harmony that looks like a lifted face with high cheekbones! As I said before fg is like an entity of its own with good days and bad days and yesterday was a good day. No wonder I keep getting turned down for a smas facelift and get the "what ya talking about young girl?" look when I ask at clinics in the uk and Korea. Remember if your face starts to sag rule out dehydration, sudden extreme weight loss or sudden extreme weight gain. Remember aging is due to loss of volume from the face! And try to find the right balance of healthy weight for the optimum fat in your face to create a natural lift...too much weighs down the face and too little deflates the face causing skin and neck wrinkling and sagging. In the last photo I am leaning forward and no lower face deflation! The good news is that I can eat more now to stay at this 100 lb weight or bmi of 19.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

EvaCandy said:


> MiisO do you take enough calcium? Although no one talks about lack of calcium as a cause of hair loss but if you don't consume enough calcium, especially in your menopause, you will see hair loss. My hair loss stop after I started adding a good calcium supplement. I take at least 250 mg, twice a day. Also get your blood ferritin checked. If your hair loss is androgen related you may benefit from taking saw palmetto and stinging nettle. But start with calcium first. You will notice some results in number of hair falling out in a week. Also if you take anti-histamine it will mess with your hair cycle.



Be careful. Read studies on calcium supplements. This is the same calcium which HARDENS YOUR ARTERIES!!!  Better to get it from food like sardines, cheese.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on aging celebs who look fab. I never thought I would need to consider a FL at age 80 yet here is Jane Fonda after a FL at 80! Now I need to know who her ps was! She looks 30 years younger! Ugh this means I face 30 more years of high end maintenance until I too am 80. Anti-aging is hard work and maintenance never ending. Sigh.



Kudos to her.  Jane at 80 strutting her stuff.   I mean look at the hot bod.
Most ppl at 80 need walkers but she's confidently strutting her stuff without even worrying about tripping on long hem sweeping the ground in her stilettos.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Kudos to her.  Jane at 80 strutting her stuff.   I mean look at the hot bod.
> Most ppl at 80 need walkers but she's confidently strutting her stuff without even worrying about tripping on long hem sweeping the ground in her stilettos.
> 
> View attachment 4242523


Jane is incredible! I remember she had a fitness video. Good on her to keep motivated at 80!


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Jane is incredible! I remember she had a fitness video. Good on her to keep motivated at 80!



And the ***** (calling her that as she's currently making waves comparing ***** to Hitler when she betrayed American troops during 'Nam) made over US$100m the series of exercise vids. Can you believe it?


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> And the ***** (calling her that as she's currently making waves comparing ***** to Hitler when she betrayed American troops during 'Nam) made over US$100m the series of exercise vids. Can you believe it?



Bummer! PF killed my b**tch name for Jane.


----------



## EvaCandy

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Be careful. Read studies on calcium supplements. This is the same calcium which HARDENS YOUR ARTERIES!!!  Better to get it from food like sardines, cheese.



Menopausal women need at least 1200mg of calcium to prevent bone loss. There is no way we can reach this limit only from food. Also your body cannot absorb more than 500 mg of calcium at a time. So if one cannot get at least 600 mg a day, they will see the result on the hair. Yes it is better to get your calcium from food but you need to eat 4 ounces of sardines twice a day everyday. The good thing about sardine is that they are low in mercury but I personally cannot eat that much sardine everyday. Edamame and Tofu are high in calcium but you cannot find any non-GMO soy. Broccoli rabe, green vegetables,black eyed peas, white beans and Sesame seeds are also relatively high in calcium. Regardless of the how you would like to get your calcium, if you don't get enough calcium, your body takes it from your hair. I myself saw the results of taking calcium in less than a week. My hair loss stopped completely but it all depends on the root cause of one's hair loss. Mine was not getting enough calcium through my diet. Also make sure your ferritin level is around 50. But taking iron should definitely be discussed with your doctor.


----------



## EvaCandy

MissOrange said:


> Here are my latest photos 9 months post ulthera and 4th full face fg. The eyelids are still full. Yay. My weight yesterday was 100.6 lbs or almost 4 lbs more than when I had the surgeries in Feb at 96.8 lbs. Somehow the combination of natural fat weight gain and after effects of ulthera with 4th fg top up have created a facial harmony that looks like a lifted face with high cheekbones! As I said before fg is like an entity of its own with good days and bad days and yesterday was a good day. No wonder I keep getting turned down for a smas facelift and get the "what ya talking about young girl?" look when I ask at clinics in the uk and Korea. Remember if your face starts to sag rule out dehydration, sudden extreme weight loss or sudden extreme weight gain. Remember aging is due to loss of volume from the face! And try to find the right balance of healthy weight for the optimum fat in your face to create a natural lift...too much weighs down the face and too little deflates the face causing skin and neck wrinkling and sagging. In the last photo I am leaning forward and no lower face deflation! The good news is that I can eat more now to stay at this 100 lb weight or bmi of 19.


miso you mentioned you did Ulthera. did you see any results from Ulthera? I heard that thermage, ulthera and HiFu cause fat loss in the area. I have done RF Profound to improve skin texture and also for tightening the skin and I didn't see any results. RF Profound that is a radio frequency micro-needling is claimed to be the latest technology in skin tightening and to me it was an absolute waste of money. I did HuFi once last year. No visible result but it was cheaper than RF Profound.


----------



## GPR

MissOrange said:


> Here are my latest photos 9 months post ulthera and 4th full face fg. The eyelids are still full. Yay. My weight yesterday was 100.6 lbs or almost 4 lbs more than when I had the surgeries in Feb at 96.8 lbs. Somehow the combination of natural fat weight gain and after effects of ulthera with 4th fg top up have created a facial harmony that looks like a lifted face with high cheekbones! As I said before fg is like an entity of its own with good days and bad days and yesterday was a good day. No wonder I keep getting turned down for a smas facelift and get the "what ya talking about young girl?" look when I ask at clinics in the uk and Korea. Remember if your face starts to sag rule out dehydration, sudden extreme weight loss or sudden extreme weight gain. Remember aging is due to loss of volume from the face! And try to find the right balance of healthy weight for the optimum fat in your face to create a natural lift...too much weighs down the face and too little deflates the face causing skin and neck wrinkling and sagging. In the last photo I am leaning forward and no lower face deflation! The good news is that I can eat more now to stay at this 100 lb weight or bmi of 19.



You look stunning! I wonder how you would look with more traditional Korean look (dark hair, dark eyes, light makeup...)


----------



## MissOrange

EvaCandy said:


> miso you mentioned you did Ulthera. did you see any results from Ulthera? I heard that thermage, ulthera and HiFu cause fat loss in the area. I have done RF Profound to improve skin texture and also for tightening the skin and I didn't see any results. RF Profound that is a radio frequency micro-needling is claimed to be the latest technology in skin tightening and to me it was an absolute waste of money. I did HuFi once last year. No visible result but it was cheaper than RF Profound.


Hi @EvaCandy thanks for the extra information on calcium. I would love to stop my hair loss. Can't wait to try calcium for a week. Just ordered some from H&B.

I think the ulthera caused fat graft loss from my lower face so not recommended.


----------



## EvaCandy

MissOrange said:


> Hi @EvaCandy thanks for the extra information on calcium. I would love to stop my hair loss. Can't wait to try calcium for a week. Just ordered some from H&B.
> 
> I think the ulthera caused fat graft loss from my lower face so not recommended.


Thanks for your feedback MissO! I heard that any RF or Ultrasound procedure can melt the fat and even dissolve the fillers. It may work for someone who is trying to make their face slimmer but losing fat means more sagging for me. I think your face is perfect and very youthful. You truly don't need anything. You're beautiful.


----------



## MissOrange

EvaCandy said:


> Thanks for your feedback MissO! I heard that any RF or Ultrasound procedure can melt the fat and even dissolve the fillers. It may work for someone who is trying to make their face slimmer but losing fat means more sagging for me. I think your face is perfect and very youthful. You truly don't need anything. You're beautiful.


Good luck on your ps journey @EvaCandy! Yes I am at the end of mine. Although I am obsessed about going light blonde so going even lighter tomorrow with more blonde highlights. I have been using argan oil to keep the bleached hair from getting dry. Can't wait for the calcium tablets. I bought chewable. I have stopped brushing my hair and just use my fingers to gently comb through my hair to prevent too much hair loss so will definitely be able to see the difference with calcium.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is a trip down memory lane. I must say if you are getting older and hitting the big 5-0, then have a look at your eyes. I am extremely pleased with my revision incision des, ptosis correction and upper lid fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP clinic May 2016 for 3 million won or 2.7 million with the airport tax refund or £1.67k as the exchange rate was immensely favourable to Brits back then. I found high resolution photos from another clinic visit. Here is a collage of my old eyes reminding me of my dad taken in Feb 2016 vs my young happy rejuvenated eyes in June 2016 (one month postop) except for the arcus senilis cholesterol lines in my iris reminding me I have super high cholesterol. I had 1 cm of excess upper lid skin that both wrinkled and drooped over my eyes. I researched and chose wisely in Korea as I had a high chance of botched eyes with 4 prior UK blephs. I pulled out my excess lid skin and said to Dr Seo please cut it off! It has been 2.5 years and my eyes still look open and young (see profile photo).


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday was slow torture sitting at the hair salon for 4 hours!!! Yes that is how long it took to get a full head of blonder highlights for £75+ tip. She literally took a fine toothed comb and threaded out all the brown strands to dye a few at a time like a perfectionist. I  had no makeup on yesterday so here is the after salon visit with my face blotted out until I take some selfies with makeup. I am trying to go as blonde as HYS. Maybe she got blonde extensions? It really is hard work.


----------



## MissOrange

I can't thank @EvaCandy enough for her calcium advice for postmenopausal ladies! 3 days on calcium and my hair fall out has reduced to a mere 1-2 strands! I am also noticing that natural slow weight gain to 100-101 lbs (bmi 19-19.2) is fillng out just the fg on my face so like getting a free top up and not like an msg balloon face! This means for those getting full face fg gain 3-5 lbs for longevity of fg. And finally loving life as a blonde in the UK. Wow what a difference when it comes to getting great customer service! No more feeling ignored or being treated as invisible. I am staying blonde for life now.


----------



## cherryontop

Hi MissOrange! I was wondering at what age you decided on your first fat graft? Did you try dermal fillers before fat graft?

I am 28 turning 29 and am currently deciding between the two.

I am leaning towards getting dermal filler for cheek and under eye area along with plumping up the forehead area a little as I feel I am quite young. I don't have wrinkles or hollowing but just want that fresh, bouncy look. I've read many pros and cons for both procedures but I wanted to hear your thoughts.

I am also wondering how much you paid?

My KKT quotes were:
2-3mil won for fat grafting full face ($2000-3000 USD)
590man won for full face filler ($590USD)


----------



## MissOrange

cherryontop said:


> Hi MissOrange! I was wondering at what age you decided on your first fat graft? Did you try dermal fillers before fat graft?
> 
> I am 28 turning 29 and am currently deciding between the two.
> 
> I am leaning towards getting dermal filler for cheek and under eye area along with plumping up the forehead area a little as I feel I am quite young. I don't have wrinkles or hollowing but just want that fresh, bouncy look. I've read many pros and cons for both procedures but I wanted to hear your thoughts.
> 
> I am also wondering how much you paid?
> 
> My KKT quotes were:
> 2-3mil won for fat grafting full face ($2000-3000 USD)
> 590man won for full face filler ($590USD)


Hi @cherryontop, fat grafting did not exist 20-30 years ago! I had my first fat graft at age 50. I had lip and nasolabial fillers with botox from age 40. My forehead has learned not to frown ie wrinkle so I have stopped getting botox. I am seeing how long I look good without nasolabial fillers. I would say try dermal fillers first as this is temporary and cheaper and see where it looks the best on your face. When you need volume for your entire face, then look at fat grafting as it is dangerous to fill your whole face with fillers.

As for pricing, full face fg is usually around 2-2.5 million won but can be higher in clinics that attract foreigners.


----------



## MOTTY26

love your new hair color Ms. O!  what color exactly are those?  I bet u it takes a while for the new color to take effect.   Would u be able to post another pic in daylight please? 

also, who is that korean actress that u normally post here?

thanks!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> I didn't even notice her bullhorn lift. I thought the lips were lifted by the mini facelift. Now that you've pointed it out, the distance between her lips to her nose is halved, hence her lips are fuller.
> 
> The other thing he does, which I think is his secret weapon, is enriching his fat with stem cells. He calls this Powered Sugar Fat. See attached woman 4 years post, still looking good.
> 
> View attachment 4240432



This woman had ponytail facelift and necklift
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
 (Kao does endo, he just presented to ISAPS last week) and a BULLHORN LIPLIFT. She is 8 days out, took selfie at airport to send to him AMAZING. Still swollen but WOW.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Bad, bad Artefill (formerly Bellefill). I see clinics in SK are promoting it. First of all it is bovine origin. A no for me as I have nearly wanted to die from the painful side effects.  This woman went to Kao for removal and face and neck lift. Pretty amazing outcome. Here's her story.
She developed #fillergranulas everywhere the #filler was injected. The granulomas caused chronic irritation, itching and occasional pain and needed to be removed.We performed an endoscopic removal of those granulomas along with a Ponytail Lift ,  Jowl Lift , and Neck Lift. In some areas, the foreign body reaction infiltrated the superficial dermis and we had to directly excise the lesion. She was so scared to proceed with surgery she almost cancelled the day before... she is now so happy with her outcome.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> This woman had ponytail facelift and necklift
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4250228
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Kao does endo, he just presented to ISAPS last week) and a BULLHORN LIPLIFT. She is 8 days out, took selfie at airport to send to him AMAZING. Still swollen but WOW.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

OMG She is aging rock star in her mid 70's. She had a undergone a traditional #facelift 6 years ago. Her skin was so thin and delicate, it was like working with wet tissue paper on top of jello. Her #lowereyelid bags were very pronounced, rather than removing them , we redistributed then, so to avoid hollowing out the eyes even more. In addition, micro #fattransfer was performed inside the eye socket to improve the #holloweyes. An upper #liplift was also performed she is greatly improved but we are still working on softening around the mouth and lips (she likes big lips) and improving the texture of her skin. We did not have a chance to resurface her skin this time but we will continue to work with her. Pretty amazing how the FG has improved the texture of her skin as she has NOT had her thin skin resurfaced yet.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

My future FL doctor. No real cutting as he goes in from your scalp endoscopically.
What a magician no wonder he's ranked as best in the world by fashion mag.
	

		
			
		

		
	




Also check out his bullhorn lift at 9 days!!! Nine Days.


----------



## EvaCandy

MissOrange said:


> I can't thank @EvaCandy enough for her calcium advice for postmenopausal ladies! 3 days on calcium and my hair fall out has reduced to a mere 1-2 strands! I am also noticing that natural slow weight gain to 100-101 lbs (bmi 19-19.2) is fillng out just the fg on my face so like getting a free top up and not like an msg balloon face! This means for those getting full face fg gain 3-5 lbs for longevity of fg. And finally loving life as a blonde in the UK. Wow what a difference when it comes to getting great customer service! No more feeling ignored or being treated as invisible. I am staying blonde for life now.


So glad it worked for you also. As you know hair growth cycle is slow so you will see the real result in 6 month. Any hair color looks great on you cute face.


----------



## MissOrange

Here are yesterday's photos with a full head of blonde highlights (looks red under indoor lighting) and make-up. I am thrilled I do not need a 5th fg. Happy to maintain my weight at 100-101 lbs or 19-19.2 bmi as it really fills out the fg cells in all the right places and no need to monitor my water intake to expand my lower face. Excuse my hair; I did not have time to get a professional blow-dry. No need for temporary threadlift or costly smas. Just put on a few lbs to help the existing fg cells re-expand and lift the face naturally.

Be careful you do not lose too much weight as when you age you need natural fat as volume to expand and lift your face and most men prefer ladies with a curvaceous figure!

Oh my goodness after all my efforts to go completely blonde HYS has gone back to black! Can't keep up! lol.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> OMG She is aging rock star in her mid 70's. She had a undergone a traditional #facelift 6 years ago. Her skin was so thin and delicate, it was like working with wet tissue paper on top of jello. Her #lowereyelid bags were very pronounced, rather than removing them , we redistributed then, so to avoid hollowing out the eyes even more. In addition, micro #fattransfer was performed inside the eye socket to improve the #holloweyes. An upper #liplift was also performed she is greatly improved but we are still working on softening around the mouth and lips (she likes big lips) and improving the texture of her skin. We did not have a chance to resurface her skin this time but we will continue to work with her. Pretty amazing how the FG has improved the texture of her skin as she has NOT had her thin skin resurfaced yet.
> View attachment 4250254


Can you believe it? Here is the 70 year old 'rock star' once the swelling has gone down.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

One last post from Kao. Sorry I'm fixated on him at the moment.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Here are yesterday's photos with a full head of blonde highlights (looks red under indoor lighting) and make-up. I am thrilled I do not need a 5th fg. Happy to maintain my weight at 100-101 lbs or 19-19.2 bmi as it really fills out the fg cells in all the right places and no need to monitor my water intake to expand my lower face. Excuse my hair; I did not have time to get a professional blow-dry. No need for temporary threadlift or costly smas. Just put on a few lbs to help the existing fg cells re-expand and lift the face naturally.
> 
> Be careful you do not lose too much weight as when you age you need natural fat as volume to expand and lift your face and most men prefer ladies with a curvaceous figure!
> 
> Oh my goodness after all my efforts to go completely blonde HYS has gone back to black! Can't keep up! lol.


Oh my! You look fabulous in these photos!
Does HYS photoshopped her photos? Coz she looks different sometimes... her face looks small in some photos and big in others. I guess watching her videos might be a better gauge of the size of her face.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> One last post from Kao. Sorry I'm fixated on him at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4252342



Sorry girls, I lied. One more for the road. I am gobsmacked. Woo Hoo now I will long forever young.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25




----------



## MissOrange

Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 the pressure is on to look good and young into one's 60s, 70s and 80s but what if the paramedic doesn't take a stroke seriously because I end up looking 25 at age 75? Oh dear, oh dear. They already question me in hospital thinking I stole someone else's identity as I don't look like my Caucasian name or age! They must be thinking how can a 25 yo Korean have the identity of a 52 yo white named person? lol. What did I do with the real postmenopausal middle aged lady?

One by one I am seeing ladies get fat grafting and bullhorn lip lift...love how easy it is to knock off the decades. I guess smas FL will be for my 60s and 70s. Maybe my future facial surgeon is still in med school?! No need to do research now. Maybe they will invent a futuristic way to do facelifts with no scars. Oh wait Mr Jan Stanek does this through the ear canal! But he will be in his 80s when I need a FL.


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## maybebaby1980

Hello Miss Orange  

I've been reading to your posts for so long now. I got lip lift with miguel mascaro and it's scar free  I hope it stays

I see you're no longer recommending full face FG.

I want to do forehead temples and eyes ONLY. As I'm only 26 what do you think are the potential risk factors?

thank you...

a fan!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Wow @SheOnlyLooks25 the pressure is on to look good and young into one's 60s, 70s and 80s but what if the paramedic doesn't take a stroke seriously because I end up looking 25 at age 75? Oh dear, oh dear. They already question me in hospital thinking I stole someone else's identity as I don't look like my Caucasian name or age! They must be thinking how can a 25 yo Korean have the identity of a 52 yo white named person? lol. What did I do with the real postmenopausal middle aged lady?
> 
> One by one I am seeing ladies get fat grafting and bullhorn lip lift...love how easy it is to knock off the decades. I guess smas FL will be for my 60s and 70s. Maybe my future facial surgeon is still in med school?! No need to do research now. Maybe they will invent a futuristic way to do facelifts with no scars. Oh wait Mr Jan Stanek does this through the ear canal! But he will be in his 80s when I need a FL.



That's what this Kao does NO real cutting just 5 or 6 half inch cuts inside scalp for endoscopic pulling. All under an hour!


----------



## MissOrange

maybebaby1980 said:


> Hello Miss Orange
> 
> I've been reading to your posts for so long now. I got lip lift with miguel mascaro and it's scar free  I hope it stays
> 
> I see you're no longer recommending full face FG.
> 
> I want to do forehead temples and eyes ONLY. As I'm only 26 what do you think are the potential risk factors?
> 
> thank you...
> 
> a fan!


Hi @maybebaby1980,
Thank you for reading my posts! How many mms was your philtrum before and after your lip lift with Mascaro? I met my friend who had hers with him too and she looks great, natural and younger.

Yes fg for forehead, temples and upper eyes only and then dermal fillers for nasolabial lines if needed as the lower face cannot afford any stretching from the fg canula. 26 is young and your skin will have elasticity so can't envisage any problems as long as you go to Dr Seo at mvp, Dr Hong at Fresh or try Regen. Don't know enough about other clinics to comment. Remember to gain a few lbs for fg survival and be prepared to go back for a top up. Good luck! That said at 26 you may end up looking 16 with baby fg!


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> That's what this Kao does NO real cutting just 5 or 6 half inch cuts inside scalp for endoscopic pulling. All under an hour!


Do we know if Kao's FL lasts beyond the year mark after all the swelling is gone and gravity sets in again? Does he cut and trim the muscle layer too or just skin?

Wish we could get ponytail lifts together with Kao! Sigh. I keep getting rejected for FLs ..Dr Amir, ASPS, MVP etc. How old do I have to wait until before I can get a ponytail FL? I stretched my lower facial skin too much with 4 fgs. Don't understand why I keep getting turned down? Maybe I dress like a poor kid in jeans and trainers and they think I can't afford the high cost of a FL? lol


----------



## MissOrange

With dyeing roots costing £55, I did my own roots with a £5 box of L'oreal excellence natural light blonde number 9.0 and a paintbrush to apply the dye after tying back my hair. Here is a rare photo of me without makeup, okay 2 photos, one with wet hair after my dye and the other with dry hair. See how Caucasian round my eyes are now and not almond-shaped anymore. The lid fg has increased the space between my brows and eyes so I colour in my brows to bring the browline down with make-up. My question is how old or young do I look without makeup? I am trying to figure out what the public would think if I dared go out without makeup on.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> With dyeind roots costing £55, I did my own roots with a £5 box of L'oreal excellence natural light blonde number 9.0 and a paintbrush to apply the dye after tying back my hair. Here is a rare photo of me without makeup, okay 2 photos, one with wet hair after my dye and the other with dry hair. Question is how old or young do I look without makeup? I am trying to figure out what the public would think if I dared go out without makeup on.



MissO you certainly do not look your age but having gone blonde this has washed out your features so why bother going makeup free?  I even wear full makeup to the supermarket in case I bump into anybody.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Do we know if Kao's FL lasts beyond the year mark after all the swelling is gone and gravity sets in again? Does he cut and trim the muscle layer too or just skin?
> 
> Wish we could get ponytail lifts together with Kao! Sigh. I keep getting rejected for FLs ..Dr Amir, ASPS, MVP etc. How old do I have to wait until before I can get a ponytail FL? I stretched my lower facial skin too much with 4 fgs. Don't understand why I keep getting turned down? Maybe I dress like a poor kid in jeans and trainers and they think I can't afford the high cost of a FL? lol



On page 89 there’s a woman there 4 years post and she still looks better than the before. US$300 for a consult a PF person told me. Price anywhere fro US40,000 to US45,000


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Do we know if Kao's FL lasts beyond the year mark after all the swelling is gone and gravity sets in again? Does he cut and trim the muscle layer too or just skin?
> 
> Wish we could get ponytail lifts together with Kao! Sigh. I keep getting rejected for FLs ..Dr Amir, ASPS, MVP etc. How old do I have to wait until before I can get a ponytail FL? I stretched my lower facial skin too much with 4 fgs. Don't understand why I keep getting turned down? Maybe I dress like a poor kid in jeans and trainers and they think I can't afford the high cost of a FL? lol



Amir! Doesn’t comes close. Heaps of other PS better than him. There’s a Korean doctor in Chicago.
Patients whose MACS have failed go to Kao for revision.


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> On page 89 there’s a woman there 4 years post and she still looks better than the before. US$300 for a consult a PF person told me. Price anywhere fro US40,000 to US45,000


$40-45k! That prices me out. Thank goodness fg only costs 2-2.5 million won ($2k). How many ladies can afford $45k? Makes Korea seem cheap at 13 million won for a smas FL. Maybe his ponytail lifts look better as he combines with a bullhorn liplift at the same time.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> $40-45k! That prices me out. Thank goodness fg only costs 2-2.5 million won ($2k). How many ladies can afford $45k? Makes Korea seem cheap at 13 million won for a smas FL. Maybe his ponytail lifts look better as he combines with a bullhorn liplift at the same time.



Many take out personal loans and pay the FL off over several years. Depends on one's priorities, a new BMW or a FL? No point driving a BMW with an old face. LOL. Yes, definitely SK is cheap compared to the top tier FL surgeons in the US.


----------



## MissOrange

I just looked up daily recommended dosage of calcium for postmenopausal women and it is a whopping 1200 mg a day! My daily scoop of ice cream is only 84 mg. I have been taking a 500 mg chewable calcium tablet a day for a week now thanks to @EvaCandy and noticed less hair fallout. Maybe I need to double the dose but I am petite so don't want to overdo it. My hair stylist put toner in my diy blonde roots and now I am platinum blonde in the daylight and blonde in yellow light. Gone are the orange red tones.

Ladies remember to grow your hair long as shorter hair can age you. And take daily calcium, vitamin D and fish oils. Now I have to put on my war paint to make the face match the hair and don't tell me it looks like silver grey hair! lol

Trying not to watch k pop female bands else will want to dress in skimpy outfits next! lol


----------



## MissOrange

Okay war paint on now. Instead of the heavy full strip of false lashes I put in a handful of individual lashes for more natural eyes. I am no longer obsessing about my weight. Seems the fg loves a bmi of 19.2 or 100.6 lbs as long as I avoid msg. So much for the korean girl bmi of 18.5 which leads to lower face deflation and sagging.

Love, love, love this soft blonde hair!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post demonstrates the benefits of a bmi of 19 over 18 as it enhances your chest too! Not only do I not need annual fg top ups or excessive water hydration, but it has given me back a sexy figure. Remember if you are postmenopausal, we need volume not only in the face but also in our body to fill out and lift body parts! And for long thick hair try daily vitamin D and calcium supplements to ensure you are meeting your daily requirements postmenopause with an added bonus of protection against osteoporotic fractures! 

I wonder if older ladies who do fracture their wrists or hips are low in calcium and vitamin D and we should be ensuring they meet their daily requirements?


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## missy_sana

Girls, stop stressing out in front of the mirror and the screen...

And. Get. Yourself. Outdoors. To. Stay. Young.


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## MissOrange

Saying goodbye to my implants in 13 days. Going small and natural. After 4 sets of banned implants, the latest set textured allergan are banned in France and I have had enough of trusting manufacturers of implants. Wish me luck that the explant goes well. I may end up at Fresh for breast fat transfer but realised I need 400 ccs of fat, ie 200 each side to replace 295 cc implants! It was hard enough to find 50 cc's total for my face! Will be sharing my pre-op and post-op photos with stickers if I am not too deformed and depressed post explant.


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## PinkCats-PurplePeonies

MissOrange said:


> Saying goodbye to my implants in 13 days. Going small and natural. After 4 sets of banned implants, the latest set textured allergan are banned in France and I have had enough of trusting manufacturers of implants. Wish me luck that the explant goes well. I may end up at Fresh for breast fat transfer but realised I need 400 ccs of fat, ie 200 each side to replace 295 cc implants! It was hard enough to find 50 cc's total for my face! Will be sharing my pre-op and post-op photos with stickers if I am not too deformed and depressed post explant.


Oh be careful Miss O. Do you really have to extract them? If they're not causing any problems then I don't see the point in getting them removed. Don't fix what's not broken as they say. Are you certain it's what you want to do? I hope all goes well for you either way, many best wishes


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## MissOrange

PinkCats-PurplePeonies said:


> Oh be careful Miss O. Do you really have to extract them? If they're not causing any problems then I don't see the point in getting them removed. Don't fix what's not broken as they say. Are you certain it's what you want to do? I hope all goes well for you either way, many best wishes


Aww thank you. I have been tossing and turning over whether to just do nothing but everyone I talk to knows someone who had cancer with implants and it terrifies me. And many ladies are sharing silicone breast implant illness symptoms. It's like history is repeating itself as this happened in the 1990s with silicone breast implants which is why I have tried 3 sets of non silicone implants but each got banned.

I had an explant in 1999 when the trilucent soya implant ruptured and went from c cup to a. Anxious what will happen going from dd cup to ?. But will solve that problem as it arises. Easier than waking up one day with a swollen breast and a diagnosis of lymphoma cancer. Yikes.


----------



## MissOrange

A friend passed on this link! Wow my back up plan if I end up too flat! 

That means one more trip to Korea in the New year, maybe Feb or March low season prices. But first I shall see how small I end up in 12 days and counting down.


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## maybebaby1980

@MissOrange Good on you! If I recollect you said you have children. Your health comes first. Once you have kids, a husband, a legacy your goal is PHYSICAL anti aging and INTERNAL anti aging. You want to live long and look great at it! Anything which could shorten your life or significantly impact your health will be avoided. If you and your husband don't mind the change. Why not?

I'm incredibly proud of you ! Good luck. We are here to give you support and e-hugs.


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## MissOrange

Today I cancelled my consultation with Dr Amir as I came to my senses. He has plenty of facelift patient reviews but none for implant removal so why was I rushing into booking surgery with him when there have now been 615 cases of BIA-ALCL cancer reported from textured silicone implants(allergan and mentor). I have now booked a cancellation consultation slot with Guy Sterne in Birmingham, one of the best UK surgeons for £4013 set price for en bloc removal of breast implants, en bloc meaning total capsulectomy with the implants inside and he sends his specimens to be tested for BIA-ALCL. I see him later this month and hope to have my surgery in January, again looking for a cancellation slot. He has a whopping 24 recent patient recommendations for en bloc! And a lady is flying from abroad to see him! Remember to follow your own advice! Find real patients to follow their surgeries and outcomes before you pick your surgeon! His patients are posting their photos in the largest UK FB group for breast implant illness and they look so natural and full without a lift postop so he must take great care to reconstruct when closing the incision. If I am lucky, I may not even need fat transfer in Korea. His consultation price is £100 and a train ticket from London to Birmingham is only £6! Sometimes it is cheaper to get surgery outside of a major city as long as the surgeon and hospital are just as good.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Today I cancelled my consultation with Dr Amir as I came to my senses. He has plenty of facelift patient reviews but none for implant removal so why was I rushing into booking surgery with him when there have now been 615 cases of BIA-ALCL cancer reported from textured silicone implants(allergan and mentor). I have now booked a cancellation consultation slot with Guy Sterne in Birmingham, one of the best UK surgeons for £4013 set price for en bloc removal of breast implants, en bloc meaning total capsulectomy with the implants inside and he sends his specimens to be tested for BIA-ALCL. I see him later this month and hope to have my surgery in January, again looking for a cancellation slot. He has a whopping 24 recent patient recommendations for en bloc! And a lady is flying from abroad to see him! Remember to follow your own advice! Find real patients to follow their surgeries and outcomes before you pick your surgeon! His patients are posting their photos in the largest UK FB group for breast implant illness and they look so natural and full without a lift postop so he must take great care to reconstruct when closing the incision. If I am lucky, I may not even need fat transfer in Korea. His consultation price is £100 and a train ticket from London to Birmingham is only £6! Sometimes it is cheaper to get surgery outside of a major city as long as the surgeon and hospital are just as good.



That's good as I thought you were going to see an explant expert not a facelift expert. You're lucky you can still get in so quickly.


----------



## lorihmatthews

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Many take out personal loans and pay the FL off over several years. Depends on one's priorities, a new BMW or a FL? No point driving a BMW with an old face.



I'll drive my car regardless of what I look like, thanks. Too many people care too much about what other people think.


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## noragatita

MissOrange said:


> Saying goodbye to my implants in 13 days. Going small and natural. After 4 sets of banned implants, the latest set textured allergan are banned in France and I have had enough of trusting manufacturers of implants. Wish me luck that the explant goes well. I may end up at Fresh for breast fat transfer but realised I need 400 ccs of fat, ie 200 each side to replace 295 cc implants! It was hard enough to find 50 cc's total for my face! Will be sharing my pre-op and post-op photos with stickers if I am not too deformed and depressed post explant.


Hi Miss Orange, I'm looking to get an explant in Korea as well, but have yet to find a doctor that does explant en bloc/total capsulectomy procedure. What kind of explant are you having?


----------



## MissOrange

noragatita said:


> Hi Miss Orange, I'm looking to get an explant in Korea as well, but have yet to find a doctor that does explant en bloc/total capsulectomy procedure. What kind of explant are you having?


Hi @noragatita I am having en bloc explant in Birmingham hopefully in January once I see Guy Sterne for consultation in 2 weeks. I debated whether to fly to korea for cheaper and quick explant but as these are dangerous banned in France implants I think best to go to an en bloc specialist surgeon.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @noragatita I am having en bloc explant in Birmingham hopefully in January once I see Guy Sterne for consultation in 2 weeks. I debated whether to fly to korea for cheaper and quick explant but as these are dangerous banned in France implants I think best to go to an en bloc specialist surgeon.



I applaud your courage in doing the explant as I know that it is not an easy decision. Most of us opted for plastic surgery for the reason to enhance our looks. But health is definitely more important than anything else.
Do keep us updated on your journey! I am sure your explant journey would help many of us here.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @noragatita I am having en bloc explant in Birmingham hopefully in January once I see Guy Sterne for consultation in 2 weeks. I debated whether to fly to korea for cheaper and quick explant but as these are dangerous banned in France implants I think best to go to an en bloc specialist surgeon.



Furthermore I doubt if an SK clinic would send your biopsy specimens to be tested for BIA-ALCL examination and even if they did and you needed treatment, you wouldn't be staying in SK for it so then you have to start the drama again of biopsy back in the UK. FORGET IT. This is not a procedure for cutting corners or discount shopping.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> I applaud your courage in doing the explant as I know that it is not an easy decision. Most of us opted for plastic surgery for the reason to enhance our looks. But health is definitely more important than anything else.
> Do keep us updated on your journey! I am sure your explant journey would help many of us here.


Thank you @Fortunecat. Today I queued up in the cold from 7:30 am for a first come first serve GP appointment handed out at 8 am. I felt like I was in Russia queueing for rations! It was sooo cold my fingers turned purple! He sent a NHS breast clinic referral and I tried to book a private breast MRI in London with a GP letter but that is impossible. Nothing until the New Year in Barnet! Apparently the breast mri is a very special mri and few centres in London do it. Waterloo centre would have been perfect but it is being refurbished so no MRIs there. So I booked a private ultrasound scan instead for later this week for £265. Results on the day from a consultant radiologist whether my right implant has an extracapsular rupture (panic attack big time), intracapsular rupture (keep checking for cancellation ops) or no leak or rupture (chill until en bloc removal). Then I shall have more information while I await to see Guy Sterne. If there is a rupture, the NHS will remove but after my 1999 NHS ruptured implant removal, I am not sure I want to be left with suturing done by a novice requiring scar revision and uneven leftover empty breast sacs or socks!


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> Furthermore I doubt if an SK clinic would send your biopsy specimens to be tested for BIA-ALCL examination and even if they did and you needed treatment, you wouldn't be staying in SK for it so then you have to start the drama again of biopsy back in the UK. FORGET IT. This is not a procedure for cutting corners or discount shopping.


You are absolutely right @SheOnlyLooks25! I must forego bargain hunting and negotiating to just go with the best. Although I did pick the cheapest best en bloc surgeon!  Yes Guy Sterne also gives postop check appointments to discuss the biopsy results! Imagine patients getting the all clear meaning everything is out. No more toxic banned implant or scarred capsule left behind. Proper clean out = happy healing. The US FB group of breast implants has over 55,000 members with ladies all over the world explanting daily! Even in Iceland! Word travels fast! Natural, small, healthy breasts are trumping toxic banned big tits!


----------



## MissOrange

@Fortunecat and @SheOnlyLooks25 wow I had my endoscopy today and it showed EOE, eosinophilic oesophagitis an immune condition and an oesophageal ulcer! Seems a lot of ladies with silicone implants are reporting this too! Good news is that it goes away on explant. 2 weeks to go to see one of the top UK en bloc surgeons....I need my body to hang in there until January's explant without getting lymphoma. Ultrasound tomorrow. No way would I ever recommend implants. Go fat transfer or push up padded bras!


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## MissOrange

For ladies out there with breast implants, saline or silicone, here are the list of symptoms for breast implant illness (bii). A GI doctor said the body was not meant for implants. The symptoms can come on shortly after insertion or years later.


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## MissOrange

For any lady even thinking of breast augmentation I would highly recommend you spend a week reading the daily posts by real patients in a fb group Breast implant illness and healing by Nicole. It has over 55,000 ladies worldwide sharing what breast implants did to them. It seems even saline implants may have silicone coating with toxins.

I paid £265 for a private ultrasound and my implants are intact. This gives me some comfort until explant in January I hope. I just found out that besides the chronic dry eyes I have (using tear drops, steroid eye drops), oesophageal ulcer and eoe, my early menopause in my 40s may have also been caused by these silicone implants! A lot of the ladies are also reporting early menopause! Another had a total thyroidectomy before she realised it could have been breast implant illness and would have reversed with explant. Ladies are even explanting months after getting BA due to breast implant illness. I trusted both CE Europe approval and US FDA approval for my breast implants. 4 sets later (3 sets recalled/banned and waiting for this French company Allergan textured coating silicone set to be recalled in the uk after being banned in France) and 5 breast surgeries now facing my 6th breast surgery, I realised I cannot trust regulators or manufacturers.

Ladies, get BA with your own fat cells or gain weight as breast tissue is mostly fat anyway. Read of ladies who were big chested when younger but after breast feeding deflated so got implants which then started causing problems. Or ladies who had mastectomy for cancer and were given silicone implants which have caused them palpitations, difficulty swallowing, atypical chest pain, arthritis etc. Be safe and healthy. Ladies are explanting from their 20s to 60s world-wide! And I am now a firm believer in bii as ladies share their b&a explant photos even of their faces changing from inflamed and bloated to young and fresh.

In conclusion before you pay for BA in Korea, research breast implant illness and spend time in the fb group. There are sad cases where some cannot afford explant after life circumstances change, job loss, divorce, etc. and in the UK, the nhs only explants for stage 4 capsular contracture where the implant is about to burst or confirmed rupture and even then it depends on funding in your area and the nhs surgeon as to whether they do proceed and some may only remove and leave the capsule behind which has led to continued bii symptoms and having to pay to get the capsules removed too. Some are taking out loans or maxing credit cards to pay for removal. Remember there are now 626 cases of breast implant lymphoma worldwide and growing as explanted implants are being sent to labs for testing and if positive you may need chemotherapy!


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## MissOrange

Okay bit premature. The formal written scan report came today and it says there may be signs of early intracapsular rupture. Ladies it may cost you more to remove than for your BA! If you do get BA put aside money for explant if problematic.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Okay bit premature. The formal written scan report came today and it says there may be signs of early intracapsular rupture. Ladies it may cost you more to remove than for your BA! If you do get BA put aside money for explant if problematic.


And don’t forget silent rupture which is what I have as my implants are very, very old. Saline without texture is currently the safest. Textured implants are the problem. 
Girls you must save diligently to have your implants replaced every 7-10 years.


----------



## MissOrange

A 10 month update on full face fat grafting. Bear in mind I have now had a total of 4 facial fat grafts so results may vary depending on whether it is your first or like me your fourth. I combine drinking plenty of water with keeping my weight around 99-100 lbs to make fat cells thrive which I did not do with prior fat transfers.

In picture 4 you can see my wide zygoma. Still obsessing about wanting to go to Regen and getting zygoma reduction with Dr Oh. Sigh.


----------



## jsorchid

MissOrange said:


> . I combine drinking plenty of water with keeping my weight around 99-100 lbs to make fat cells thrive which I did not do with prior fat transfers.


I think my fg get effected being out in the cold. I swear every time I been walking atound Chicago cold weather, my face the next day look less full. I think the doctor over filled a little so it’s still ok but I hope absorption of my fat will stop. My left face was filled with fg to my eyes but my right wasn’t and I am beginning to see asymmetrical fullness... my right lower lid looks a little sunk in vs my left lid which I love. I will definitely redo another fg next fall.


----------



## MissOrange

jsorchid said:


> I think my fg get effected being out in the cold. I swear every time I been walking atound Chicago cold weather, my face the next day look less full. I think the doctor over filled a little so it’s still ok but I hope absorption of my fat will stop. My left face was filled with fg to my eyes but my right wasn’t and I am beginning to see asymmetrical fullness... my right lower lid looks a little sunk in vs my left lid which I love. I will definitely redo another fg next fall.


Hi @jsorchid you are going through the normal cycle of a low after a high with fg. This is when the first fg starts to reabsorb. Fg needs at least 2-3 top ups as each time you reabsorb 50%. It adds up as you keep having to make a longhaul flight to korea for top ups. Luckily after trying Dr Seo in Feb for my 4th fg, it is stable. Doing the maths 120% overfill goes down to 60% first time, then top up back to 100% goes down to 80%, then top up to 100% goes down to 90% and finally a 4th top up to 100% goes down to 95% but for me I think I lost more in the lower face from combining ulthera with fg in Feb so my lower face is back down to the 80% mark. I now use water +++ and a 100 lb weight to expand the lower face and no more fg as my lower face is back to after the 2nd fg stage and I cannot bear 2 more trips to korea to correct my lower face.

I now have good news and an op date for en bloc removal of these French banned allergan natrelle textured implants on January 9 and will be combining with a lift! Yay! I love muscle + skin lifts as they last (bullhorn LL) and turn back time! My surgeon did the pinch test for breast tissue! Apparently you pinch the skin above your breast and if you can pinch 4 cms you have enough breast tissue for a lift! I am hoping I end up a small C but that would be a miracle I guess after explanting 295 cc implants. One step at a time.

I am envious that you got accepted for smas FL but I guess it was meant to be as I now need £7k to pay for my 6th and hopefully last breast op after being fooled by manufacturers and regulators x 4 sets of banned/recalled implants.


----------



## MissOrange

After I watched a youtube video of 3 Korean girls getting western makeup and looking too heavily made up like Halloween as one girl said after, I realised to look back to Korean, I need to wear less if any make-up and no false lashes! I tried the Asian make-up look and voila I finally look more Asian!

If ever you need a spa break try the Hyatt regency in Birmingham for £70 where the premier league football teams stay on the Friday before their 3 Saturday Birmingham games and there is a nearby new £500 million Grand Central mall where the Birmingham new streer train station ends inside. Only £6 for the 2 hour train trip from London. Here I am by the hotel pool in Asian make-up (still need more work flattening my western arched brows) and one British guest called me a chinese girl to her husband! I never corrected her.


----------



## kitty nyc

MissOrange, I really like this look on you! Very fresh and girlie, great job!


----------



## MissOrange

kitty nyc said:


> MissOrange, I really like this look on you! Very fresh and girlie, great job!


Thanks @kitty nyc! It is a lot less effort. I just discovered infrared steam hair stylers! Had a hair demo and omg! Now I shall have salon smooth hair like the k pop stars on instagram in 5 minutes or less by using this styler at home.

My younger sister is now interested in flying to korea next month for plastic surgery to transform. You know who I suggested.. my korean ps! But I do worry as ps is very addictive and if you change one thing, you may need to keep going as you find more and more that needs rejuvenating.

I was looking in a mirror as I can't totally trust my android and thinking posterior zygoma reduction, then lower facelift would make me look like a beautiful k-actress but that is 20 million won! And I bet after that I would want a long nose. So best to just stop and concentrate on something else. 19 days to go to en bloc implant removal and breast lift! I think I am a ps junkie!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on determining whether you need a breast lift. If you have grade 1 or more ptosis then yes mastopexy can help. I have grade 1 ptosis (nipples 1cm below the crease line vs normal is 2 cm above the crease line) held up by either bras or bikini tops which will worsen once the implants are removed so definitely need a combo lift too. My op is fast approaching in less than 2 weeks time and my consultation summary says he does not know what size I will be post explant of 295cc implants. I shall go from a 34 DD to x for unknown with lift. I have added 2 bikini top shots as I say goodbye forever to big breasts which quite frankly were too big on a 5 foot petite frame. I have researched thoroughly and Mr Guy Sterne is in my opinion one of the best and most experienced in en bloc removals and has ladies flying in from Australia and Turkey for explant with him!

 In USA they transfer up to 400cc of fat to each breast for $11k but in the uk limit the amount transferred to almost half that. Not sure I want to start another fat graft journey with multiple top ups to Korea but may have to depending on the result.

In the meantime as my youngest sis also approaches 50 next year she too has booked Seo for her inc des and ptosis to start her rejuvenation journey in a week's time.

I wish there was a diagram to determine whether a lower FL is required as I still think I need one. Sigh.


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange Good luck in your explant! Hang it there!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Good luck in your explant! Hang it there!


Aww thank you @Fortunecat. Breast implant removal has moved up to the 10th most popular plastic surgery procedure! I have learned saline implants grow mold, textured silicone implants bleed and even newer gummy implants rupture. Bottom line imo is that fat transfer with Dr Burns or Dr Bednar in USA and Dr Hong of Fresh in Korea seems the way to go for BA.


----------



## Starry Eyes

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on determining whether you need a breast lift. If you have grade 1 or more ptosis then yes mastopexy can help. I have grade 1 ptosis (nipples 1cm below the crease line vs normal is 2 cm above the crease line) held up by either bras or bikini tops which will worsen once the implants are removed so definitely need a combo lift too. My op is fast approaching in less than 2 weeks time and my consultation summary says he does not know what size I will be post explant of 295cc implants. I shall go from a 34 DD to x for unknown with lift. I have added 2 bikini top shots as I say goodbye forever to big breasts which quite frankly were too big on a 5 foot petite frame. I have researched thoroughly and Mr Guy Sterne is in my opinion one of the best and most experienced in en bloc removals and has ladies flying in from Australia and Turkey for explant with him!
> 
> In USA they transfer up to 400cc of fat to each breast for $11k but in the uk limit the amount transferred to almost half that. Not sure I want to start another fat graft journey with multiple top ups to Korea but may have to depending on the result.
> 
> In the meantime as my youngest sis also approaches 50 next year she too has booked Seo for her inc des and ptosis to start her rejuvenation journey in a week's time.
> 
> I wish there was a diagram to determine whether a lower FL is required as I still think I need one. Sigh.





Hi MissOrange! Good luck with your explant, I wish you all the best! It surely won't be easy going from a DD to much smaller after being so used to it for many years. I wanted to get fat transfer to breasts in Korea too but was told by a few places that they don't transfer tummy fats, which is where I want to get rid of fats the most.  Apparently thigh, hip, or buttock fat is the best. My BMI is only 18.9 and I like how my lower body looks so no fat transfer for me. 

I do feel better when you advise against implants though. I know many women who have done them and look great but who knows if they will get affected by BII eventually and have to go through the explant process anyway.

Anyway, you look great blonde but as an ex-asian blonde myself I have some hair advice for you: I would strongly discourage you from doing anymore DIY touch ups. The reason is that virgin hair and processed hair absorb bleach and colour at very different rates, but the difference only becomes obvious after the hair has been bleached for about 1-2 years. What may happen is that the hair may end up with patchy colour at different lengths of the strand after you've been blonde for about 1.5 years. 

It will still look great every time you leave the salon of course, but the real results show once the new colour or toner has faded in a few weeks post-appointment. Trust me, I was blonde for quite a few years and I loved every minute of it but my hair eventually became so fragile and over-processed that I grew it out back to black. 

Another scary thing stylists never admit is that you will lose a lot more hair after bleaching, especially if you are over 35! Sorry if I sound negative, just sharing from my own experience. Just make sure you deep condition all the time and use hair oils overnight on the ends. And never DIY if you can help it! Hair becomes very precious to us as we get older, and it doesn't regenerate the same way as younger girls so we can't treat it the same way that they do!


----------



## MissOrange

Starry Eyes said:


> Hi MissOrange! Good luck with your explant, I wish you all the best! It surely won't be easy going from a DD to much smaller after being so used to it for many years. I wanted to get fat transfer to breasts in Korea too but was told by a few places that they don't transfer tummy fats, which is where I want to get rid of fats the most.  Apparently thigh, hip, or buttock fat is the best. My BMI is only 18.9 and I like how my lower body looks so no fat transfer for me.
> 
> I do feel better when you advise against implants though. I know many women who have done them and look great but who knows if they will get affected by BII eventually and have to go through the explant process anyway.
> 
> Anyway, you look great blonde but as an ex-asian blonde myself I have some hair advice for you: I would strongly discourage you from doing anymore DIY touch ups. The reason is that virgin hair and processed hair absorb bleach and colour at very different rates, but the difference only becomes obvious after the hair has been bleached for about 1-2 years. What may happen is that the hair may end up with patchy colour at different lengths of the strand after you've been blonde for about 1.5 years.
> 
> It will still look great every time you leave the salon of course, but the real results show once the new colour or toner has faded in a few weeks post-appointment. Trust me, I was blonde for quite a few years and I loved every minute of it but my hair eventually became so fragile and over-processed that I grew it out back to black.
> 
> Another scary thing stylists never admit is that you will lose a lot more hair after bleaching, especially if you are over 35! Sorry if I sound negative, just sharing from my own experience. Just make sure you deep condition all the time and use hair oils overnight on the ends. And never DIY if you can help it! Hair becomes very precious to us as we get older, and it doesn't regenerate the same way as younger girls so we can't treat it the same way that they do!


Hi @Starry Eyes, thank you for your well wishes for my upcoming explant. You and I both have the same bmi! Dr John Burns does 360 degree whole body lipo to fill up breasts, ie arms, thighs, back, tummy etc. There is a fb group just on breast fat transfer with amazing b&a's and up to 14 month follow ups. One petite asian lady weighed only 94 lbs yet managed to get whole body lipo to give her d cups! But Burns costs $10k. Have you asked Fresh in korea if Dr Hong will take fat from your tummy for breast FT? I am thinking he will be cheaper than USA and if I wake up an A or AA, I shall be booking breast FT asap but keep forgetting it will be a struggle to find 400 ccs of fat from my used up thigh fat reserves and only bum and back fat left, oh and bat wing arms. 

Now that HYS has gone back to black hair, I am thinking time to go back to dark but after all the hours in the salon and costs to go blonde, it would be a shame to darken just yet.

Thanks for the advice to go to the stylist for roots. I must say it is easier to do diy roots with a paintbrush and 2 mirrors. lol. Yes my girls say my hair looks very dry.

I have just been reading of yet another bii symptom....tooth decay!!! Yep 4 years ago out of the blue my 2 upper front teeth started aching and the dentist took an x ray that showed an abscess so he did 2 root canals at vast cost. The fb group of 58,000 ladies with bii keep reporting cracked teeth, needing 4 root canals, teeth extraction etc.! Then the latest research is root canal itself can trigger autoimmune disease as it often still contains necrotic tissue and bacteria! Some report being told to find a specialist dentist to carefully remove the root canal but then would need tooth extraction and a dental implant! And back to square one with a foreign implant! http://naturalsociety.com/how-root-...0IyZPSVS5hsjT0wsTcpKpSRSlYX0gjtVrd4LszTzhBn7g

Sometimes bii gets too much to bear but I am glad Crystal Hefner shared her bii story and explant as did many bloggers.

To cheer myself up I uploaded a free aging booth for fun to see what I would look like if I lived a century ago without access to fat graft, nasolabial radiesse filler, botox or hair dye! Brace yourself! Okay now I see why I get turned down for lower FL. Not quite there yet. .


----------



## missy_sana

Starry Eyes said:


> Anyway, you look great blonde but as an ex-asian blonde myself I have some hair advice for you: I would strongly discourage you from doing anymore DIY touch ups. The reason is that virgin hair and processed hair absorb bleach and colour at very different rates, but the difference only becomes obvious after the hair has been bleached for about 1-2 years. What may happen is that the hair may end up with patchy colour at different lengths of the strand after you've been blonde for about 1.5 years.
> 
> It will still look great every time you leave the salon of course, but the real results show once the new colour or toner has faded in a few weeks post-appointment. Trust me, I was blonde for quite a few years and I loved every minute of it but my hair eventually became so fragile and over-processed that I grew it out back to black.
> 
> Another scary thing stylists never admit is that you will lose a lot more hair after bleaching, especially if you are over 35! Sorry if I sound negative, just sharing from my own experience. Just make sure you deep condition all the time and use hair oils overnight on the ends. And never DIY if you can help it! Hair becomes very precious to us as we get older, and it doesn't regenerate the same way as younger girls so we can't treat it the same way that they do!



@Starry Eyes  THAT is soooooooo true! I've been banging on about that sad truth in previous posts here.  

Now I'm still suffering the consequences of home-bleached blonde hair from 8 years ago:  Scalp dermatitis or seborrheic psoriasis, excessive hair loss, disappearance of hair follicles, as well as straw-dry hair.

So gutted that I didn't get a chance to try out every dye shade of the rainbow to make it worth the suffering.


----------



## MissOrange

Oh my goodness, anyone even considering breast implants has to watch this documentary on breast implants! I just watched it and am shocked how allergan and mentor downgraded reports of ruptures and reops to 'minor' adverse events instead of major so as not to make them public! How a scientist at Health Canada found up to 70% of saline implant valves became faulty over time. How a lovely lady got textured implants at age 44 and by 50 was diagnosed with bia alcl lymphoma and almost died from failed chemo. It even goes into the history of how women were used as guinea pigs before they invented implants.


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## Fortunecat

@MissOrange Despite our efforts trying to warn ppl to think twice about zygoma reduction and breast implants, those who are adament, will still go ahead with their surgeries.
I guess, let's just relax and chill one side... :s


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Despite our efforts trying to warn ppl to think twice about zygoma reduction and breast implants, those who are adament, will still go ahead with their surgeries.
> I guess, let's just relax and chill one side... :s


The force is strong @Fortunecat. Thanks for reminding me I am not to get zygoma reduction. My OH says if I do I will F up my face. lol. He doesn't mince words.


----------



## MissOrange

Omgoodness, my op has been moved up to this Sunday!!! Yay! I don't have netflix but if you do and are considering breast implants, watch bleeding edge! Seems medical devices are less regulated than pharmaceuticals and some on the fda board are ex employees of manufacturers! I shall update you on whether I wake up with the heal is real experience with clear eyes, no more heartburn and a clear sharp memory. Fingers crossed. I have now seen his rs postop photos (one lady even calls her boob lift 20 yo boobs wow!) and fb group ones and feel 100% reassured I have chosen the best aesthetic en bloc surgeon for removal with lift for me.

Meanwhile my younger sis is booked for eyes and nose with Dr Seo tomorrow morning! Maybe I need to see Dr Seo to fix my wonky nostrils? If I am too small, I could look into 360 degree lipo for breast FT? Oh dear my ps keeps on going!


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Omgoodness, my op has been moved up to this Sunday!!! Yay! I don't have netflix but if you do and are considering breast implants, watch bleeding edge! Seems medical devices are less regulated than pharmaceuticals and some on the fda board are ex employees of manufacturers! I shall update you on whether I wake up with the heal is real experience with clear eyes, no more heartburn and a clear sharp memory. Fingers crossed. I have now seen his rs postop photos (one lady even calls her boob lift 20 yo boobs wow!) and fb group ones and feel 100% reassured I have chosen the best aesthetic en bloc surgeon for removal with lift for me.
> 
> Meanwhile my younger sis is booked for eyes and nose with Dr Seo tomorrow morning! Maybe I need to see Dr Seo to fix my wonky nostrils? If I am too small, I could look into 360 degree lipo for breast FT? Oh dear my ps keeps on going!


That is good news!
Wish you the best of luck in your explant!


----------



## MissOrange

It's 1 am in Birmingham at the £57 a night Holiday Inn. I get up in 5 hours, get dressed, pack, check out and take a booked taxi to West Midlands Hospital for my surgery. By 11 hours I could be over the moon happy with my £7,690 explant + lift results or devastated with no boobs. 4 sets of recalled breast implants...trilucent double rupture, hydrogel, pip and now textured allergans (suspected right intracellular rupture), all certified by the EU or US FDA and all then recalled/banned. Remember ladies, try autologous fat transfer and not poorly regulated foreign body medical devices.


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> It's 1 am in Birmingham at the £57 a night Holiday Inn. I get up in 5 hours, get dressed, pack, check out and take a booked taxi to West Midlands Hospital for my surgery. By 11 hours I could be over the moon happy with my £7,690 explant + lift results or devastated with no boobs. 4 sets of recalled breast implants...trilucent double rupture, hydrogel, pip and now textured allergans (suspected right intracellular rupture), all certified by the EU or US FDA and all then recalled/banned. Remember ladies, try autologous fat transfer and not poorly regulated foreign body medical devices.



@MissOrange  No major loss in losing the silicone, because you still got the real deal (i.e. husband) stuck by your side before and after your several implants!

As long as you keep yourself healthy in mind, body and soul, then you'll keep your hot body even with small boobs.  Alot of Victoria Secret models are B cup, or possibly even A cup:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2512118/Victorias-Secret-Angels-buxom-think.html

So go treat yourself to some chicken fillets to enhance your healing boobs and self-esteem... the plastic kind for stuffing safely in bras!


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange How are you? Is everything okay after the explant?


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange How are you? Is everything okay after the explant?


Hi @Fortunecat, I have been busy buying bras today at Primark. 7 assorted bras for £20 is such a bargain!

Okay so I went into theatre having confirmed a lollipop lift with Guy Sterne and even showed him and his anaesthetist an A4 print out of a former patient of his who got a beautiful vertical lollipop lift. Then I awoke hours later to be told he had performed a circumareolar lift, ie a donut lift and not a standard breast lollipop lift! I was taken aback. How does a surgeon do a procedure never discussed or agreed upon? What made matters worse was when I knocked on the hospital room door of another patient of his who did get a standard lollipop lift on the same op list, and she looked amazing like a VS model in a bra but not needing a bra as they were high, pert and full! Mine are saggy like the late Farrah Fawcett with what I call Franken tits resewn on. The side profile looks like an empty saggy sock with lower breast sag as I never got a vertical lollipop lift as agreed?! 

I went through anger, rage, depression and acceptance at spending £7690 full price for en bloc removal and lollipop mastectomy to get en bloc removal with donut mastectomy this past Sunday which is not recommended by US Dr John Burns or London Dr David Floyd. They don't do circumareolar/donut lifts for a good reason! So why me? I have not got a reply yet to my 2 emails asking Guy Sterne why?

 I tried on my daughter's bra yesterday and the bra lifts up my droopy 'lifted' boobs! I guess I will have to research lift with fat transfer with Dr David Floyd in the UK, Dr John Burns in Dallas, Texas or just breast FT alone with mvp or fresh clinic. Floyd does 200 cc FT to each breast vs Burns up to 500ccs to each breast with 360 degree body lipo.

Anyway here is my pod day 3 in a 34c bra. My mutant pursestring sewn nipples and saggy breasts are hidden and hoisted up. Praise the Lord for cheap bras!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat, I have been busy buying bras today at Primark. 7 assorted bras for £20 is such a bargain!
> 
> Okay so I went into theatre having confirmed a lollipop lift with Guy Sterne and even showed him and his anaesthetist an A4 print out of a former patient of his who got a beautiful vertical lollipop lift. Then I awoke hours later to be told he had performed a circumareolar lift, ie a donut lift and not a standard breast lollipop lift! I was taken aback. How does a surgeon do a procedure never discussed or agreed upon? What made matters worse was when I knocked on the hospital room door of another patient of his who did get a standard lollipop lift on the same op list, and she looked amazing like a VS model in a bra but not needing a bra as they were high, pert and full! Mine are saggy like the late Farrah Fawcett with what I call Franken tits resewn on. The side profile looks like an empty saggy sock with lower breast sag as I never got a vertical lollipop lift as agreed?!
> 
> I went through anger, rage, depression and acceptance at spending £7690 full price for en bloc removal and lollipop mastectomy to get en bloc removal with donut mastectomy this past Sunday which is not recommended by US Dr John Burns or London Dr David Floyd. They don't do circumareolar/donut lifts for a good reason! So why me? I have not got a reply yet to my 2 emails asking Guy Sterne why?
> 
> I tried on my daughter's bra yesterday and the bra lifts up my droopy 'lifted' boobs! I guess I will have to research lift with fat transfer with Dr David Floyd in the UK, Dr John Burns in Dallas, Texas or just breast FT alone with mvp or fresh clinic. Floyd does 200 cc FT to each breast vs Burns up to 500ccs to each breast with 360 degree body lipo.
> 
> Anyway here is my pod day 3 in a 34c bra. My mutant pursestring sewn nipples and saggy breasts are hidden and hoisted up. Praise the Lord for cheap bras!



They look great! BTW there are now HEAPS of reviews on RS re explant and the immediately after boobs are empty sacks but miraculously in a month or two they seem to even out so I would tell you to wait.  No need to fly to the US for fg to boobs as SK are doing good in that area too.


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange You are looking good. Maybe your surgeon thought that your boobs did not fit the criteria for a lollipop lift? But its definitely good to ask him for the reason. Its devastating to know that the surgeon did not operate upon the agreement.


----------



## Gorme

Hi @MissOrange......been reading 95 pages marathonly until my vision is blur

Thanks so much for sharing all of this

I am now set to go for a consult with dr Seo for eyelid revision.

Just a quick question if you don't mind, will you trust dr Seo for facelift?

TIA


----------



## MissOrange

Gorme said:


> Hi @MissOrange......been reading 95 pages marathonly until my vision is blur
> 
> Thanks so much for sharing all of this
> 
> I am now set to go for a consult with dr Seo for eyelid revision.
> 
> Just a quick question if you don't mind, will you trust dr Seo for facelift?
> 
> TIA


Hi @Gorme, wow 95 pages in one go! Well done. My younger sister got her eyes and nose done by Seo this month. Yes I would trust Seo for a smas facelift but so far I have been told I am not a candidate for FL or zygoma reduction. The clinic is ethical in that it is harder to get approval for ps from them as they actually say no!


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Apparently Dr Jonghyun Hong is the man for breast fg. This Aussie Chinese girl went to him. Not too impressed with b&a on their website but I do like his work on her. She said she had some shrinkage but very happy with what's retained at 1 year. She hated the look of implants and these results are amazing.

https://www.realself.com/review/seoul-kr-breast-fat-transfer-big-natural-breast-fat-transfer


----------



## Gorme

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Gorme, wow 95 pages in one go! Well done. My younger sister got her eyes and nose done by Seo this month. Yes I would trust Seo for a smas facelift but so far I have been told I am not a candidate for FL or zygoma reduction. The clinic is ethical in that it is harder to get approval for ps from them as they actually say no!


Part of why I could read marathonly is because your thread is so interesting and informative.

So lucky you are denied FL at your age, I am mid 40 but every surgeon I enquired recommends FL except dr Lee Asps.

Please update on your sis result later Miss O.
Is it revision?

If you don't mind can you pls explain why would you trust dr Seo for FL, because as far as I know he is not FL specialist and some says it is not real smas at MVP.

Since you've been there you must know better.

TIA


----------



## MissOrange

Gorme said:


> Part of why I could read marathonly is because your thread is so interesting and informative.
> 
> So lucky you are denied FL at your age, I am mid 40 but every surgeon I enquired recommends FL except dr Lee Asps.
> 
> Please update on your sis result later Miss O.
> Is it revision?
> 
> If you don't mind can you pls explain why would you trust dr Seo for FL, because as far as I know he is not FL specialist and some says it is not real smas at MVP.
> 
> Since you've been there you must know better.
> 
> TIA


Hi @Gorme,

Isn't it frustrating when some clinics say you are not a candidate for FL yet I have seen Chinese ladies in their 30s get FL in the same clinic that refuses me in my 50s! Is there something else going on? Do we get turned down by asps because we don't look rich enough?

My sis had primary des, ptosis correction and primary tip rhino with alar reduction for a barbie nose. The results are subtle and natural and she is happy.

The problem for me and FLs is that it would emphasize my shaved small chin and much wider posterior zygomas. At the moment my skin droops so the chin looks less short. So I would then need zygoma reduction followed by a FL.

I am still recovering from en bloc explant and circumareolar lift so cannot think of further ps. Healing is going well and I don't need fg to the breasts, just good bras. I do need to exercise for my flabby upper arms. Past 2 lipos to my tummy and thighs have led to fat collecting in my upper arms and love handles.


----------



## MissOrange

.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Gorme,
> 
> Isn't it frustrating when some clinics say you are not a candidate for FL yet I have seen Chinese ladies in their 30s get FL in the same clinic that refuses me in my 50s! Is there something else going on? Do we get turned down by asps because we don't look rich enough?
> 
> My sis had primary des, ptosis correction and primary tip rhino with alar reduction for a barbie nose. The results are subtle and natural and she is happy.
> 
> The problem for me and FLs is that it would emphasize my shaved small chin and much wider posterior zygomas. At the moment my skin droops so the chin looks less short. So I would then need zygoma reduction followed by a FL.
> 
> I am still recovering from en bloc explant and circumareolar lift so cannot think of further ps. Healing is going well and I don't need fg to the breasts, just good bras. I do need to exercise for my flabby upper arms. Past 2 lipos to my tummy and thighs have led to fat collecting in my upper arms and love handles.


You are looking good!


----------



## catelet

Looks wonderful--feminine and natural without the implants!


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Looks wonderful--feminine and natural without the implants!


I agree @catelet. Seems a lot of ladies realise the breasts look better without implants. I have been eating fatty foods (croissants, cake, burger, fries, ice cream) now for 2 weeks and my breasts have either grown new fat cells or expanded the remaining fat cells so no need for FT. The only regret is getting the lift as my nipples are completely numb with jagged scars around the now one round and one tubular shaped larger stretched nipples, so obviously cut and resewn. Before I had small normal nipples that had intact nerves despite 5 breast ops.


----------



## catelet

MissOrange said:


> I agree @catelet. Seems a lot of ladies realise the breasts look better without implants. I have been eating fatty foods (croissants, cake, burger, fries, ice cream) now for 2 weeks and my breasts have either grown new fat cells or expanded the remaining fat cells so no need for FT. The only regret is getting the lift as my nipples are completely numb with jagged scars around the now one round and one tubular shaped larger stretched nipples, so obviously cut and resewn. Before I had small normal nipples that had intact nerves despite 5 breast ops.



@MissOrange, don't you think the feeling may yet come back to your nipples though? And you are in the early stages of healing so things may shape up more to your liking yet regarding the nipple shape, etc. yet. Did you have en bloc removal? I applaud you if you did. I did not (that's why I could have removal under local I assume), and although the Dr. said I didn't need it as the capsule were very thin,  I still wish I'd had it. 
I think so many women come out looking amazing after implant removal but it doesn't always happen right away--they call it "fluffing" as the breast returns to a more normal shape I believe? I am one of those who would probably look better with some FT since removal. Maybe because I'm older and had them longer, I couldn't say. I'm glad that you don't need FT--you look wonderful and I am happy for you that you are on the other side!


----------



## MissOrange

@catelet yes I had en bloc removal. I don't know when or if nipple sensation will return. I am sorry your surgeon did not do en bloc for peace of mind to ensure 0% risk. I heard FT costs $9k in the States and $10k if with en bloc removal with lift and FT.


----------



## atomgrrl

MissOrange said:


> Here are my latest photos 9 months post ulthera and 4th full face fg. The eyelids are still full. Yay. My weight yesterday was 100.6 lbs or almost 4 lbs more than when I had the surgeries in Feb at 96.8 lbs. Somehow the combination of natural fat weight gain and after effects of ulthera with 4th fg top up have created a facial harmony that looks like a lifted face with high cheekbones! As I said before fg is like an entity of its own with good days and bad days and yesterday was a good day. No wonder I keep getting turned down for a smas facelift and get the "what ya talking about young girl?" look when I ask at clinics in the uk and Korea. Remember if your face starts to sag rule out dehydration, sudden extreme weight loss or sudden extreme weight gain. Remember aging is due to loss of volume from the face! And try to find the right balance of healthy weight for the optimum fat in your face to create a natural lift...too much weighs down the face and too little deflates the face causing skin and neck wrinkling and sagging. In the last photo I am leaning forward and no lower face deflation! The good news is that I can eat more now to stay at this 100 lb weight or bmi of 19.


Miss Orange, would like guidance on whether you got the fat graft and ultherapy on the same trip? I’m interested in both procedures but am confused whether ultherapy cancels out the effects of the fat graft. Or do you do the ultherapy first, then do the fat graft?

Thanks


----------



## MissOrange

atomgrrl said:


> Miss Orange, would like guidance on whether you got the fat graft and ultherapy on the same trip? I’m interested in both procedures but am confused whether ultherapy cancels out the effects of the fat graft. Or do you do the ultherapy first, then do the fat graft?
> 
> Thanks


@atomgrrl don't get fg and ulthera at the same time. You are right. The ulthera cancels the fat graft from the lower face. My mistake which set back my lower face a couple of fat grafts.


----------



## MissOrange

It is now 15 days post en bloc removal of my 295 cc implants and my boobs continue to fluff and grow on a fatty diet of ice cream, croissants, sticky toffee cake, krispy kreme donuts, mcdonalds fries and burgers, etc. If athletes can build muscles with high protein powder drinks, we ladies can grow natural boobs with a diet high in fat! I am now either a 32 d (red bra) or 32 dd (blue and black bras) as both bra sizes fit me ( had to raid another of my daughter's bra drawer!). My weight was 99.8 lbs on the day of my op at a 34dd with 295 cc silicone implants, then went down to 97.8 lbs after explant and now back up to 99.8 lbs and a 32 dd with natural boobs eating junk food for 2 weeks! This means before considering fat transfer, eat lots of fatty foods for a fortnight!


----------



## viamala

Wow, your breasts look amazing now @MissOrange ! If you don’t mind me asking, is it possible to gain weight on only the breasts when eating fatty foods? Because your waist still looks very slim


----------



## MissOrange

viamala said:


> Wow, your breasts look amazing now @MissOrange ! If you don’t mind me asking, is it possible to gain weight on only the breasts when eating fatty foods? Because your waist still looks very slim


Hi @viamala, I only gained 2 lbs and yes it seems it all went to my boobs. I think because I do stairs, daily housework, walking exercise and have had 2 abdomen and thigh lipos in the past, that the choices for fat build up are the stretched breast skin with empty sockets ready for fat cells to fill and expand, upper arms (but maybe there is a max amount of fat build up there) and love handles (but again restricted as the skin is not stretched like the breasts have been). No brainer then that fat cells have expanded with ease in my empty breasts.

I have also been applying mustela breast firming serum daily and prayed to God for bigger boobs so covered all bases.


----------



## Cleo7

Hi Miss Orange, 

I have a question. Did u do a facelift? You dont have pending or skin excess sagging.
Love the contour of your face. 
Please share your secret lol


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

catelet said:


> @MissOrange, don't you think the feeling may yet come back to your nipples though? And you are in the early stages of healing so things may shape up more to your liking yet regarding the nipple shape, etc. yet. Did you have en bloc removal? I applaud you if you did. I did not (that's why I could have removal under local I assume), and although the Dr. said I didn't need it as the capsule were very thin,  I still wish I'd had it.
> I think so many women come out looking amazing after implant removal but it doesn't always happen right away--they call it "fluffing" as the breast returns to a more normal shape I believe? I am one of those who would probably look better with some FT since removal. Maybe because I'm older and had them longer, I couldn't say. I'm glad that you don't need FT--you look wonderful and I am happy for you that you are on the other side!



NO it doesn't. I know. If nerves are intact you would have feelings there now, sadly it won't come back!


----------



## Cleo7

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> NO it doesn't. I know. If nerves are intact you would have feelings there now, sadly it won't come back!


where do u live?
I saw Dr Kao shared his technique in Europe. Very cheaper.


----------



## atomgrrl

MissOrange said:


> @atomgrrl don't get fg and ulthera at the same time. You are right. The ulthera cancels the fat graft from the lower face. My mistake which set back my lower face a couple of fat grafts.


Thanks for the quick reply. This makes me sad. So many trips to SK to get everything done and now that I’ve read about shurink, I  was very excited to tighten my lower face and neck but I also desperately want fat grafting.


----------



## MissOrange

Cleo7 said:


> Hi Miss Orange,
> 
> I have a question. Did u do a facelift? You dont have pending or skin excess sagging.
> Love the contour of your face.
> Please share your secret lol


Hi @Cleo7 , I want a lower smas facelift but keep getting refused by Dr Amir, mvp, and asps so I guess full face fg has helped add volume and lift the face but I can still pinch an inch of loose skin in my lower face. Sigh. I was offered threadlift by Bellavou clinic in Kent but I want a more permanent lift and my body tends to reject foreign materials. I tried ulthera at mvp which was good but I think it may have melted some of the fg in my lower face. The definitive lift is smas. If I could find someone who would agree to do it, I would book and pay asap. I know I have posterior zygoma reduction and smas Fl left to do on my ps shopping list but my OH says I will wreck my face if I do. Maybe I will have courage at age 60.

@SheOnlyLooks25 that is what I fear. The other lady who had a full lift on my op day had only one nipple numb but then sensation returned within 2 weeks. I am now pod 16. I am waiting until my 6 week follow up and praying to God for another miracle else it means the nunnery for me.

@atomgrrl depending on your age, you could try just full face fg x 2, or fg to upper and mid and ulthera to lower then do fillers after to lower, or try fg and smas FL. I notice my radiesss nasolabial dermal fillers absorb faster in the hot summer and last several months longer in the cold winters.


----------



## MissOrange

A friend told me I had to choose face over body, meaning make sure I weigh close to 100 lbs and forget having k pop matchstick thighs so that my face fg looks good vs do not drop below 98 lbs else my face looks gaunt and my body looks super. I worried that ulthera had melted my lower face fg but looking at my holiday photos from last week at 99.8 lbs, my lower face looks fine! I was 96.8 lbs when I got ulthera + face fg at mvp in Feb of last year. So maybe @atomgrrl  it can be done together but you have to gain 3 lbs to help the lower face fg after ulthera.

I am learning hys selfie tips and used my collar to hide part of my face lol.


----------



## estradastone

You look gorgeous!


----------



## catelet

MissOrange said:


> @catelet yes I had en bloc removal. I don't know when or if nipple sensation will return. I am sorry your surgeon did not do en bloc for peace of mind to ensure 0% risk. I heard FT costs $9k in the States and $10k if with en bloc removal with lift and FT.



@MissOrange lookin' good!! 

Yes, I may or may not ever do any FT, we'll see, or alternatively, I might do a lift. I don't think most people need FT or a lift after implant removal, but I think in my case, it might be a good thing. All I had was a simple removal under local (egads I can't believe I had the courage to do that now haha but honestly it wasn't that bad and I drove myself home--no kidding) . I had saline, and they weren't old and weren't capsulized. Still, I wish he'd have removed the capsules, whether they were thin or not, but if I do have a lift in the future, I'll have the Dr. look into that for me. 
Still, I am super happy I had them removed--I personally hate the feel of implants and couldn't stand the thought of having "replacements" into my old age! I do know many women are happy with theirs and may never have any issues. That's fine. But I don't advocate them, and I prefer the look of smaller breasts esp. on my frame anyhow.  And then there's the health concerns of course. 
Anyway, I am very happy for you @MissOrange!


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange lookin' good!!
> 
> Yes, I may or may not ever do any FT, we'll see, or alternatively, I might do a lift. I don't think most people need FT or a lift after implant removal, but I think in my case, it might be a good thing. All I had was a simple removal under local (egads I can't believe I had the courage to do that now haha but honestly it wasn't that bad and I drove myself home--no kidding) . I had saline, and they weren't old and weren't capsulized. Still, I wish he'd have removed the capsules, whether they were thin or not, but if I do have a lift in the future, I'll have the Dr. look into that for me.
> Still, I am super happy I had them removed--I personally hate the feel of implants and couldn't stand the thought of having "replacements" into my old age! I do know many women are happy with theirs and may never have any issues. That's fine. But I don't advocate them, and I prefer the look of smaller breasts esp. on my frame anyhow.  And then there's the health concerns of course.
> Anyway, I am very happy for you @MissOrange!


@catelet I can't believe your surgeon removed your salines under local! That is way risky in case of bleeding or complications encountered. Wow and then you drove home! Thank goodness you are okay. Yes good idea to get capsules out at time of lift in future. I was like thinking to myself I needed implant exchange every 10 years meaning at 60 then 70 etc. Thank goodness I broke the cycle due to finally figuring out all silicone implants may be unsafe as they were poorly regulated even by the us fda. I saw a lady in her 70s in the US fb group getting explant even.

Yesterday was pod 16 and the skin pursing and wrinkles around my lifted nipples finally started to flatten and start to look normal. Sensation is still gone. Some ladies reported lost nipple sensation even with implant placement! They never highlight this enough. Apparently you cannot breastfeed if your nipples are numb post surgery.

I tried on bras again and I am more a 34c as my diet is back to normal. No more cake, doughnuts or ice cream as I try to go back to dairy free to lower my cholesterol.


----------



## Gorme

@MissOrange  I wish I got refused for FL like you too

Loving your breast!


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## BigBrownEyedGir

@MissOrange I’ve been reading your posts about correcting the philtrum. I’m starting to see signs of aging (early 30’s) and I think my elongating philtrum and nasolabial folds are doing this so I’m planning to get fg and philtrum correcting. Do you still recommend MVP for this? What was your healing like for philtrum correction (was there bruising? Did you heal within a week?) and how far apart was your fg top up?


----------



## viamala

MissOrange said:


> Hi @viamala, I only gained 2 lbs and yes it seems it all went to my boobs. I think because I do stairs, daily housework, walking exercise and have had 2 abdomen and thigh lipos in the past, that the choices for fat build up are the stretched breast skin with empty sockets ready for fat cells to fill and expand, upper arms (but maybe there is a max amount of fat build up there) and love handles (but again restricted as the skin is not stretched like the breasts have been). No brainer then that fat cells have expanded with ease in my empty breasts.
> 
> I have also been applying mustela breast firming serum daily and prayed to God for bigger boobs so covered all bases.


Thank you for your reply ~ Hopefully I can gain weight only on my breasts after my fat graft, because all the fat cells there will have moved to my face lol
May your breasts stay a DD cup forever


----------



## catelet

@MissOrange  I understand your concerns for safety for local breast implant removal (I had them as well!), but actually it can be safe according to board-certified PS's especially if you have no complications to begin with as in my situation. I did my saline explant with an incision under the breast. It wasn't that difficult and didn't take long, and I felt no pain at all. My surgeon is/was a highly regarded, board certified PS in a very reputable hospital and two of his surgical nurses accompanied the procedure. My only regret is not having him remove my thin capsules--but he insisted there was no need.  At any rate, here are some answers from PS's about this I copied from realself where someone asked about implant removal under local. There were many more answers, but these were the two on top and I didn't have time to look further but please, anyone considering this can look it up easily:

* Breast Implants Removal Under Local Anesthesia - Is It Safe? Any Pain?*
I was told by my surgeon that he could remove my silicone implants under straight local. Is this procedures safe, will there be any pain,Recovery, and how long is the procedure? I had silicone 450cc breast implants placed 10 days ago, against my wishes cause I wanted a B. I was a fuller C cup and wanted to reduce my size, but ended up to a DD (against my wishes). I'm a very active person and have hated them ever since.

pain
DD cup
450-499cc
silicone implant
local anesthesia
*Answers (17) i*
By Board Certified Doctors and Qualified Medical Professionals

*Breast Implants Removal Under Local Anesthesia - Is It Safe? Any Pain?*
SHOW LESS



Lewis Albert Andres, MD 
34 reviews
Thank you for your question! Depending on your and your plastic surgeon's comfort level with surgical procedures via local anesthesia, it certainly is a safe procedure and can be done via local only or a little sedation. It is difficult to answer about the appearance of your breasts without a photo or examination. Removal of your implants alone will create a smaller breast with somewhat similarshape. Discuss your concerns with your plastic surgeon and the possibility for a breast lift, either at the same time or at a later date, if deemed necessary. Many times drains are placed as well as compression garments used postoperatively. Cost varies among surgeons as well as geographic location. Best wishes! SHOW LESS
 TOP CONTRIBUTOR

Cost ($4,575 National Average) 
*Implant removal under local*
SHOW LESS



Young R. Cho, MD, PhD 
74 reviews
Thank you for your question.  Removing an implant under straight local anesthesia can be done for the right patient.  If you are very anxious by nature, then you may require some form of sedation (oral, IV or general). In addition, if there is any complicating factor (e.g. trauma or implant rupture), then I would recommend sedation as there may be something unexpected that is harder to deal with under straight local. SHOW LESS[/QUOTE]


----------



## catelet

I erased this answer as posted twice--can't seem to delete this one oh well please bear with me!


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## catelet

Here's another answer on local explantation from a board-certified PS on Realself. Apparently I would be considered the patient in "appropriate circumstances," for an explant under local. I was admittedly quite brave to do it (not sure I could do it now haha but honestly it wasn't that bad and no pain), but I was mentally prepared, no complications known, soft capsule, newer implants, and trusted the hospital and its doctors. I am not recommending it or not recommending it--I'm no medical professional, just sharing my own experience. I did not have IV sedation either, just local injections.

Here is the link:  https://www.realself.com/question/breast-implants-removal-local-anesthesia-safe-pain

*Richard J. Bruneteau, MD *
* 244 reviews *

*Top Contributor status is based on high ratings in patient reviews, significant time spent answering consumer questions, and favorable community votes on those answers. Fewer than 10% of medical professionals earn this status. " style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block !important;">*
* TOP CONTRIBUTOR*
*Local Anesthesia Is An Option*

Patient’s occasionally require removal of their breast implants for a variety of reasons.When this situation arises, the procedure is usually performed under general anesthesia.It’s important to realize that under the appropriate circumstances, explantation can easily be performed under local anesthesia.In most cases, local anesthesia is supplemented with IV sedation.


----------



## atomgrrl

MissOrange said:


> A friend told me I had to choose face over body, meaning make sure I weigh close to 100 lbs and forget having k pop matchstick thighs so that my face fg looks good vs do not drop below 98 lbs else my face looks gaunt and my body looks super. I worried that ulthera had melted my lower face fg but looking at my holiday photos from last week at 99.8 lbs, my lower face looks fine! I was 96.8 lbs when I got ulthera + face fg at mvp in Feb of last year. So maybe @atomgrrl  it can be done together but you have to gain 3 lbs to help the lower face fg after ulthera.
> 
> I am learning hys selfie tips and used my collar to hide part of my face lol.


You look so youthful! Goals


----------



## MissOrange

BigBrownEyedGir said:


> @MissOrange I’ve been reading your posts about correcting the philtrum. I’m starting to see signs of aging (early 30’s) and I think my elongating philtrum and nasolabial folds are doing this so I’m planning to get fg and philtrum correcting. Do you still recommend MVP for this? What was your healing like for philtrum correction (was there bruising? Did you heal within a week?) and how far apart was your fg top up?


Hi @BigBrownEyedGir ,

Apologies I only read your post now. No I would not recommend lip lift at mvp as they do vermillion approach which cuts into the border of your upper lip and did not last. A lady from hong kong also got vermillion lip lift at mvp when we both wanted bullhorn lip lift. We have both since got definitive bullhorn lip lift which is more permanent, I with Dr Caroline Mills in London and she with Dr Mascaro in Florida. Imo vermillion lasts less than 6 months. My bullhorn is going strong at over 2 years now.


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @catelet explant under local is fine for ladies with no bii symptoms but the reason for explant is to remove all risk of ALCL lymphoma and that means removal en bloc with the capsule scars around them. This type of dissection requires a much longer incision and is more invasive with increased risk of bleeding from tissue cutting. Some ladies are still unwell with bii after the surgeon left the capsules behind and have paid someone else to go back in and remove the capsule scars.

An update on healing. At 3.5 weeks postop I finally got back nipple sensation on both sides! I could tell the nerves were regenerating as I got prickly pins and needles sensation for days leading to the nerve recovery.

I am aware that postop swelling allowed me to fit into a 32dd bra but now after the swelling has gone down, I am still happy to fit in a 32d bra and have discovered the M&S Rosie silk mix autograph range rrp £27.50 which sellers on ebay are listing for as low as £6 for last season styles! I have now bought the same in ivory and black.

Here is a side by side with supermodel Rosie in black and me in the same version but in red! For anyone considering a breast lift, I would advise you see all the breast lift photos on realself as they post without nipple covers to decide whether you can cope psychologically with the transplanted nipple mutilation look as even now I have pursestring raised skin wrinkling around the uneven larger sized nipples at pod 26. But maybe the nipples will improve over time?  Shall keep you posted. Thank heavens for bras. I haven't tried VS bras as assuming they would cost a fortune! In my £6 ebay M&S rosie silk mix bra! I love bargains!


----------



## MissOrange

It is February and a year since my full face fat graft with ulthera with Dr Seo at mvp. He asked me when I would be back. I said a year but looking at my face, I have finally achieved a permanent level of fat transfer! My upper lids are full even at a bmi of 18.5 or 97.8 lbs!

To think I turn 53 soon. I am in my second year of studying korean at the London Korean School subsidized by the Korean government and am learning the song Siren for our class end of term karaoke dinner in New Malden. Hoping to be fluent enough in korean to get a bigger discount on smas lower facelift when I turn 60! lol

Here I am taking selfies at Sky news studio in Osterley before my interview on fitbits. Excuse my poor posture in the chair.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> It is February and a year since my full face fat graft with ulthera with Dr Seo at mvp. He asked me when I would be back. I said a year but looking at my face, I have finally achieved a permanent level of fat transfer! My upper lids are full even at a bmi of 18.5 or 97.8 lbs!
> 
> To think I turn 53 soon. I am in my second year of studying korean at the London Korean School subsidized by the Korean government and am learning the song Siren for our class end of term karaoke dinner in New Malden. Hoping to be fluent enough in korean to get a bigger discount on smas lower facelift when I turn 60! lol
> 
> Here I am taking selfies at Sky news studio in Osterley before my interview on fitbits. Excuse my poor posture in the chair.



@MissOrange Wow! You are looking good and young! Please don't go for zygoma reduction. You should be able to hold off facelift until you are 60!


----------



## MissOrange

For those considering removal of your silicone or saline in silicone casing implants, I can recommend for en bloc removal+ lollipop lift either Dr David Floyd (£8-9k) or Dr Frati (£7k) both in London based on seeing their real patients posting their b+a results and for en bloc removal and no lift £4k Dr Guy Sterne of Birmingham.

On the 28th of this month I get my pathology results from the explanted implants and capsule scars which are being tested for ALCL lymphoma. Remember with no implants, you reduce your risk of alcl lymphoma to 0%. Nowadays autologous breast FT in the hands of a qualified and experienced plastic surgeon may achieve similar results to implants. Safety first.


----------



## BigBrownEyedGir

MissOrange said:


> Hi @BigBrownEyedGir ,
> 
> Apologies I only read your post now. No I would not recommend lip lift at mvp as they do vermillion approach which cuts into the border of your upper lip and did not last. A lady from hong kong also got vermillion lip lift at mvp when we both wanted bullhorn lip lift. We have both since got definitive bullhorn lip lift which is more permanent, I with Dr Caroline Mills in London and she with Dr Mascaro in Florida. Imo vermillion lasts less than 6 months. My bullhorn is going strong at over 2 years now.



Wow good to know, thank you @MissOrange for taking the time to answer. I’ll be sure to ask for bullhorn lip loft! 

Also not sure if you’re familiar but do you think a sub brow lift is worth it? One side of my eyebrow is lower (just naturally ever since I was born). In my early twenties I had my eyebrows permanently tattooed and the tattooist mentioned it too (I always knew) and she tattooed my eyebrow on the lower side a bit higher to compensate. Now in my mid thirties I want to permanently correct it with a sub brow lift - have you heard of this? Do you think it’s worth it?


----------



## BigBrownEyedGir

Sorry more questions! @MissOrange, how was the healing for your bullhorn lip lift and how much was it? If I did it in Korea I wanted to go and explore but I also don’t want to look hideous... so I might get one of those cute face masks and wear it around lol


----------



## MissOrange

BigBrownEyedGir said:


> Wow good to know, thank you @MissOrange for taking the time to answer. I’ll be sure to ask for bullhorn lip loft!
> 
> Also not sure if you’re familiar but do you think a sub brow lift is worth it? One side of my eyebrow is lower (just naturally ever since I was born). In my early twenties I had my eyebrows permanently tattooed and the tattooist mentioned it too (I always knew) and she tattooed my eyebrow on the lower side a bit higher to compensate. Now in my mid thirties I want to permanently correct it with a sub brow lift - have you heard of this? Do you think it’s worth it?


@BigBrownEyedGir I don't think plastic surgeons in korea do bullhorn lip lift as they fear ladies may complain of the scar so do not fall for the bait and switch to vermillion in korea.

As for subbrow lift I can't comment as I am trying to do the opposite. I noticed I look younger and better if I can reduce the distance between my brows and eyes so I pencil in my brows from below.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I went to my first korean karaoke! Just my luck they didn't have Siren by Sunmi so I sang You raise me up by Westlife instead and looked like a high school kid! The full face fat graft with Dr Seo Feb 2018 looks permanent, which means I don't see Dr Seo until I am 60 and can ask him to do my smas lower facelift. Really odd feeling not having anything to fix. Best to stop while I am ahead.

I now have to try this new on the market L'Oreal purple shampoo to take the brassy colour out of the L'Oreal excellence number 9 light blonde hair dye as my hair is starting to look more orange-red than blonde.


----------



## SheOnlyLooks25

Did you get the ‘all clear?’ I presume you must have.
Lower facelift and SMAS are different ops I’m sure.
Here’s SMAS by Jacono he also did eyes and bullhorn liplift


----------



## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> View attachment 4336436
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get the ‘all clear?’ I presume you must have.
> Lower facelift and SMAS are different ops I’m sure.
> Here’s SMAS by Jacono he also did eyes and bullhorn liplift


Hi @SheOnlyLooks25 I don't get my pathology results until my postop appointment which is at almost 8 weeks or Feb 28.

Here is a must viewing for all ladies considering breast implants. It is given by Dr Mark Clemens, America's top leading expert on breast implant associated anaplastic large cell lymphoma. 

I went to a talk given by our UK's leading expert Dr Suzanne Turner of Cambridge university and she said textured implants cause our body's immune system to proliferate TH17 or t helper cells 17 to attack the bacteria which collects in the textured pockets (Clemens thinks are Gram negative bacteria), the toxins in the implant capsule (trade secret is legal) and the foreign body implant itself. The constsnt chronic inflammatory response may lead to lymphoma when some of the th17 cells mutate to become lymphoma!

At the moment they suggest using smooth implants but it may only be a matter of time before we learn of how our immune system reacts to longterm use of smooth as it too is made of silicone and other trade secret materials which act as a constant foreign body.

The video has some gruesome images of undiagnosed breast alcl. I think a lot of doctors are more aware of common breast cancer which occurs in 1 in 9 ladies. And because of this concern, i do not smoke, drink very little, keep my weight normal as obesity ie increased fat is also a cancer risk factor, do not take hrt, only tried the coc once in my life decades ago and stopped, and have now stopped drinking water from plastic bottles.


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> Hi @SheOnlyLooks25 I don't get my pathology results until my postop appointment which is at almost 8 weeks or Feb 28.
> 
> Here is a must viewing for all ladies considering breast implants. It is given by Dr Mark Clemens, America's top leading expert on breast implant associated anaplastic large cell lymphoma.
> 
> I went to a talk given by our UK's leading expert Dr Suzanne Turner of Cambridge university and she said textured implants cause our body's immune system to proliferate TH17 or t helper cells 17 to attack the bacteria which collects in the textured pockets (Clemens thinks are Gram negative bacteria), the toxins in the implant capsule (trade secret is legal) and the foreign body implant itself. The constsnt chronic inflammatory response may lead to lymphoma when some of the th17 cells mutate to become lymphoma!
> 
> At the moment they suggest using smooth implants but it may only be a matter of time before we learn of how our immune system reacts to longterm use of smooth as it too is made of silicone and other trade secret materials which act as a constant foreign body.
> 
> The video has some gruesome images of undiagnosed breast alcl. I think a lot of doctors are more aware of common breast cancer which occurs in 1 in 9 ladies. And because of this concern, i do not smoke, drink very little, keep my weight normal as obesity ie increased fat is also a cancer risk factor, *do not take hrt, only tried the coc once in my life decades ago and stopped, and have now stopped drinking water from plastic bottles.*




What is hrt and coc?     How do you drink your water?


----------



## MissOrange

arnott said:


> What is hrt and coc?     How do you drink your water?


Hi @arnott, hrt is hormone replacement therapy for postmenopausal symptoms. I don't take that. Instead I take daily calcium and vitamin D supplements for my bones and do not have ice cream at bedtime as this used to give me night hot flushes. I think processed sugar may trigger night sweats or hot flushes. Coc is combined oral contraceptive. In the early 1990s when hiv and aids were rampant with no cure, there was a massive push to use condoms and not just rely on the pill. I had side effects on the pill for one month so stopped. Back in the 1980s American universities handed out the pill to all students who asked for free! Big Pharma wanted to hook as many young ladies early. Some of my female friends and even my own sister had awful side effects from decades of pill usage. My sister had fibroids, endometriosis, and ovarian cyst! I drink water from glass bottles. I use an online drinks supermarket that delivers cases of glass bottles of still mineral water like you see in hotel rooms for a bargain price and glass is also recycleable. Chilled water from a glass bottle tastes better imo too!


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## MissOrange

I have researched and there are 2 ethical en bloc removal specialist plastic surgeons who have stopped doing breast augmentation with implant, Dr Feng and Dr H Chun of USA. Here Dr Chun gives fda testimony and talks of 4 million ladies with implants and a 2% risk of alcl is 200,000 who may have alcl. Thus far 660 cases of alcl cancer have been reported worldwide. We may only be seeing the tip of the iceberg. If you have textured mentor, nagor, allergan etc. then I would strongly advise explant. Transpire clinic is the cheapest in the UK offering en bloc removal for £2900 vs the market price is £4-5k.


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## Mimmiesmama

Hi Ms Orange,
I am a newish member (been lurking on purseforum for years, not posting anything ) I have finally decided to take the plunge and head to Seoul. Would you mind if I had your Kakao id. I have put MVP on my list due to your rave reviews and was hoping you wouldn’t mind asking you some questions.


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> Hi @arnott, hrt is hormone replacement therapy for postmenopausal symptoms. I don't take that. Instead I take daily calcium and vitamin D supplements for my bones and do not have ice cream at bedtime as this used to give me night hot flushes. I think processed sugar may trigger night sweats or hot flushes. Coc is combined oral contraceptive. In the early 1990s when hiv and aids were rampant with no cure, there was a massive push to use condoms and not just rely on the pill. I had side effects on the pill for one month so stopped. Back in the 1980s American universities handed out the pill to all students who asked for free! Big Pharma wanted to hook as many young ladies early. Some of my female friends and even my own sister had awful side effects from decades of pill usage. My sister had fibroids, endometriosis, and ovarian cyst! I drink water from glass bottles. I use an online drinks supermarket that delivers cases of glass bottles of still mineral water like you see in hotel rooms for a bargain price and glass is also recycleable. Chilled water from a glass bottle tastes better imo too!



I think HRT is what Suzanne Somers does.

I thought you carried bottles of water around with you (in your purse?) though!


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## MissOrange

Mimmiesmama said:


> Hi Ms Orange,
> I am a newish member (been lurking on purseforum for years, not posting anything ) I have finally decided to take the plunge and head to Seoul. Would you mind if I had your Kakao id. I have put MVP on my list due to your rave reviews and was hoping you wouldn’t mind asking you some questions.


Hi @Mimmiesmama, I am happy to answer questions in this site's private messaging section. I have too many kakao contacts to keep up with.


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## MissOrange

arnott said:


> I think HRT is what Suzanne Somers does.
> 
> I thought you carried bottles of water around with you (in your purse?) though!


Hi @arnott, you have a great memory! Yes I now carry a glass bottle in my bag whenever I go out! I try to drink it fast as glass weighs more than plastic. lol.

Oh I have to look up Suzanne Somers and see what she looks like now. I just saw the Goodbye episode of My 8 simple rules today. Really sad that John Ritter died of a dissecting aorta at age 53. Can't believe I am only now watching his 2003 US sitcom in 2019 in the UK! Really liked him in Three's Company with Suzanne Somers.

Oh no, Suzanne Somers had breast cancer! No way would I take hormone replacement therapy. I don't have hot flushes anymore. I think the hrt symptoms only last 2-3 years. Both the pill and hrt can increase cancer risk.


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## Mimmiesmama

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Mimmiesmama, I am happy to answer questions in this site's private messaging section. I have too many kakao contacts to keep up with.


Great! Thank you


----------



## arnott

MissOrange said:


> Hi @arnott, you have a great memory! Yes I now carry a glass bottle in my bag whenever I go out! I try to drink it fast as glass weighs more than plastic. lol.



That's a pain because glass bottles weigh a ton, they can smash and leak, and it's hard to find one small enough to fit in your purse!


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## MissOrange

arnott said:


> That's a pain because glass bottles weigh a ton, they can smash and leak, and it's hard to find one small enough to fit in your purse!


Hi @arnott I bought a box of 24 x 330 ml glass bottle size from the online drinks supermarket for 80p each including p+p. Perfect size like a can of coke. I bought an ebay handbag organizer the ones they sell for lv neverfull bags with compartments so it holds the bottle upright. It's actually not that heavy. I put it in the drink holder in the car too.


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## SheOnlyLooks25

MissOrange said:


> Hi @arnott, you have a great memory! Yes I now carry a glass bottle in my bag whenever I go out! I try to drink it fast as glass weighs more than plastic. lol.
> 
> Oh I have to look up Suzanne Somers and see what she looks like now. I just saw the Goodbye episode of My 8 simple rules today. Really sad that John Ritter died of a dissecting aorta at age 53. Can't believe I am only now watching his 2003 US sitcom in 2019 in the UK! Really liked him in Three's Company with Suzanne Somers.
> 
> Oh no, Suzanne Somers had breast cancer! No way would I take hormone replacement therapy. I don't have hot flushes anymore. I think the hrt symptoms only last 2-3 years. Both the pill and hrt can increase cancer risk.


She’s not taking it for hot flushes. She’s 72. She’s taking it to stay young looking and for great sex. Unfortunately she got breast cancer but she still takes it.


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## MissOrange

SheOnlyLooks25 said:


> She’s not taking it for hot flushes. She’s 72. She’s taking it to stay young looking and for great sex. Unfortunately she got breast cancer but she still takes it.


I had a peek at Suzanne Somers on google and prefer to look like Jaclyn Smith at age 68. Now that I have discovered the best ps in korea, I should be able to achieve this and shall continue taking £10 Saturday Korean classes forever! I love how the korean government is subsidizing the London school. I just learned that with google translate you can talk korean into the app and it translates it!

I just read that breast cancer is the most common cancer in Australia and is linked to alcohol and sugar as both increase inflammation in the body! It all adds up. Processed food, alcohol, drinking bits of plastic from plastic bottles, silicone implants or saline with silicone covers, may all lead to chronic inflammatory response in the body and chronic exposure then may cause cells to mutate to cancer!


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## MissOrange

I have made a 180 degree selfie video to show my one year results of full face fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP clinic. See how even my upper lids are full! My fg history is upper lids May 2016 mvp, full face fg daprs july 2016, top up fg daprs Sept 2016, top up fg daprs Feb 2017 with just upper lid mvp top up and finally I asked Dr Seo to do my full face fg Feb 2018 and my face is now permanently youthful..well until I ask for a facelift at age 60. Here I am then at age 52.


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## MissOrange

Telltale signs of aging include liver spots and loss of fat in your hands. I have never tried radiesse in my hands and it looks so painful. But what I do is drink plenty of water which skin loves and wear gloves out. Living in a cold climate means my hands rarely get exposed to the elements. If you do develop liver spots from chronic sun exposure, try laser to remove and remember to apply sun screen to the back of your hands! 

Here is a photo of my hand looking almost mannequin like at almost 53!


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## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Telltale signs of aging include liver spots and loss of fat in your hands.



Your hands look great! I wear driving gloves to prevent sun damage and also use some of my facial skincare stuff on my hands too.

I've always had veiny hands due to genetics, I don't carry much fat at all in my hands. I've thought about fat grafting to the hands but I don't hear much about it from Korean clinics, off hand I don't ever remember seeing one of them promote the procedure for the hands. I'm curious how survival would be for hands compared to the face...


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## Fortunecat

I definitely agree that hands are important because they can tell others what our real age are. Its important to moisturises them whenever we can.
One question to ask the experts here, what about the lines on the neck? I have been moisturising my neck but lines are still prominent. Any suggestions?


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Your hands look great! I wear driving gloves to prevent sun damage and also use some of my facial skincare stuff on my hands too.
> 
> I've always had veiny hands due to genetics, I don't carry much fat at all in my hands. I've thought about fat grafting to the hands but I don't hear much about it from Korean clinics, off hand I don't ever remember seeing one of them promote the procedure for the hands. I'm curious how survival would be for hands compared to the face...


You're right @Gats. Mostly clinics in USA offer FT to hands for around $2500 according to RS and quotes 70-80% survival rate.

@Fortunecat when I googled how to get rid of neck lines it comes up with serums, exercises, sun screen and hydrate, short of neck lift surgery. I think I forgot to put spf on my neck all these decades. I have always had the same 2 neck lines. My theory is talking and eating both exercise our neck platysma muscle so I have no sagging there yet as I talk non stop at home and snack on fruit etc. every few hours.


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## MissOrange

Looking 20s also means having the figure of a 20 year old. A lot of ladies who want explant of their breast implants are often told they will look deformed to discourage them. This is not true if you pick a surgeon who specialises in en bloc breast implant removal. I have seen many amazing natural results with no lift required and would highly recommend you try this first before getting removal with lift. Breast lift may leave you with mismatched nipples or different sized areolas, and you will never have back your normal natural areolas again. Also whether you get periareolar lift or lollipop lift, the result may be no lift seen (in my case with periareolar) or a postop drop of the breasts after as little as 6 weeks. So it is important you find surgeon photos up to 1 year post lift to see if it drops and to ask to see photos without nipple covers to see what the postop areolas look like.

I am 6 weeks post en bloc removal with lift (surgeon performed periareolar even though I asked for lollipop) and have one 3 cm round areola and one 4 cm oval elliptical areola which from regular post op selfies looks like were mismatched even from pod 3! My preop areolas were smaller, symmetrical and round.

I see my surgeon next week for my first postop check and will ask for areola symmetrisation, ie fix the left 4 cm elliptical one he left me with to match the right. This is where you judge whether your surgeon takes responsibility for his work.

I have also arranged a free appointment with Mr Dario Rochira for his opinion. His work on instagram looks amazing! His private clinic charges £2k per areola to fix or £4k for both which is the going uk rate.

After spending £7690 on en bloc removal with lift, I am hoping my original surgeon will not charge extra to fix the left areola.


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## MissOrange

To think it has been 3 years since I began my rejuvenation journey starting with rib rhino in Feb 2016. The Ion rib rhino has lasted 3 years and counting. My eyelid creases are still holding well with Seo's ptosis correction from May 2016 to Feb 2019. Here are my latest selfies from this month with my natural brown eyes. My weight is stable between 98 and 99 lbs, and I know not to take any selfies before I hydrate with a bottle of water and no selfies after meals with msg. Plant based diets are all the rage to reduce inflammation in the body. Still can't eat avocados, hummus and couscous or drink wheatgrass.

I see Dr Rochira at 98 Harley St today for a second opinion on my breasts and my mismatched areolas and whether he can do lollipop lift as the periareolar lift I got did not work in my opinion.


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## MissOrange

I saw Mr Dario Rochira today at 98 Harley Street and he offered to fix the left areola as soon as next month! I now wait to see my original surgeon tomorrow morning and decide. Mr Rochira said I was not a candidate for breast lift but needed breast FT! Fat transfer! This is a recurring theme for me. lol. I think I have 150 ccs in each of my love handles or wishful thinking. Sounds like I may be flying back to Korea to try out breast FT which wasn't invented back in 1996 when I tried the first of 4 implants.

Professor Anand Deva, Australia's leading expert on breast alcl and breast implant illness says there are 3 categories of breast implant illness and category A is irreversible! Ladies do not get silicon breast implants! (see attached pre release news). I love how 3 top world scientists/surgeons are collaborating on breast alcl and bii to determine the cause...Dr Susan Turner Cambridge molecular cell biologist for the UK, Prof Deva for Australia and Dr Mark Clemens for USA.

But for now I need to fix the areola asymmetry and am happy to wear M&S silk bras to give me an instant lift. If you are getting breast lift ask for vertical scar lift, as Rochira said lollipop lift = periareolar lift?! So confusing. Did I ask for the wrong lift? Mr Rochira looked confused when I said I was 52. I credited Korea for my facial fg last Feb. While I was there I also asked if I needed zygoma reduction or a facelift and he looked at me like I had a few screws loose. lol. Well it was a free consult so I was asking as much as I could re any and all procedures. lol


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## MissOrange

An update on my 2 month postop visit to see my original surgeon who did my en bloc removal and lift. Yay he has offered to do bilateral postop areola symmetrisation for free! I will be reassessed in 4 months time and then booked for the procedure. Phew.

Professor Deva has now published his paper on breast implant illness. The categories are reversed so proven autoimmune diseases are category C and no illness A. I am category B as my dry eyes came back. That means I better be careful with alcohol as the inflammation and intolerance could return too. Still trying to work out a plant based diet.

In the UK oncology breast surgeons are now jumping on the bandwagon doing en bloc implant removals with breast lift for less than half the price of plastic surgeons! Mrs Harding-Mackean a private oncology breast surgeon is only charging £3510 based in Chester's Nuffield hospital! I paid £7690 for en bloc removal and circumareolar mastopexy with a plastic surgeon! Gulp. Good to know other surgical specialties are helping out as some ladies cannot afford explant with lift prices. In London plastic surgeons' prices are around £8800!

I kakaoed Fresh clinic for a quote on breast fat transfer after sending my photo. They suggest waiting 6 months postop so no decisions need to be made for now. Their pricing is often higher than mvp so I may need to fly back to Korea for breast FT at mvp or not as I have limited fat reserves.


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## MissOrange

I found this diagram and it details where we lose facial fat volume as we age! The first signs are temple fat loss, forehead brow dents and sunken nasolabial folds as fat disappears either from extreme weight loss or signs of aging. Nasolabial folds can be fixed with dermal fillers, fat grafting or paranasal silicone implants but as the immune system may react to silicone, try fillers and/or fat graft. Or a quick fix is drinking water to reexpand facial cells!


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## MissOrange

I just realised it has been 3 years since I started my plastic surgery beauty rejuvenation turning 50 project. Here is a side profile collage from witchy poo profile to Barbie doll side profile. Keep your old photos as over time you forget where you started! The time line is bottom left Feb 2016, bottom right May 2016 before Korea, top right June 2016 and top left Feb 2019. If you want me to look at your befores and advise, send me a PM. Anything is possible!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on metal implant allergies. I had chin bone shaving in the UK with no metal screws and the chin reduction made a remarkable improvement to my side profile. However the reason why I am holding off on zygoma reduction to reduce the wide width of my face is that I am already allergic to nickel in cheap jewelry, to the gortex premaxilla facial implant I tried and to textured silicone breast implants, so my chances are high I would react to the titanium plate and screws used in zygoma reduction which cannot be removed for a year for stability after the maxilla and zygomatic arch bones are fractured and moved.

Here is a summary of the symptoms of metal allergy/poisoning as the immune system of some may react to a foreign body as mine has in the past with histiocytes attacking the silicone in my path report on explant. If you suffer from eczema or contact dermatitis, your body may be more likely to react to foreign body implants with chronic inflammation, infection, etc.

So until they invent zygoma reduction without plate and screws, I will continue to use makeup contouring and hair styling to reduce the facial width..


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## velvettini

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on metal implant allergies. I had chin bone shaving in the UK with no metal screws and the chin reduction made a remarkable improvement to my side profile. However the reason why I am holding off on zygoma reduction to reduce the wide width of my face is that I am already allergic to nickel in cheap jewelry, to the gortex premaxilla facial implant I tried and to textured silicone breast implants, so my chances are high I would react to the titanium plate and screws used in zygoma reduction which cannot be removed for a year for stability after the maxilla and zygomatic arch bones are fractured and moved.
> 
> Here is a summary of the symptoms of metal allergy/poisoning as the immune system of some may react to a foreign body as mine has in the past with histiocytes attacking the silicone in my path report on explant. If you suffer from eczema or contact dermatitis, your body may be more likely to react to foreign body implants with chronic inflammation, infection, etc.
> 
> So until they invent zygoma reduction without plate and screws, I will continue to use makeup contouring and hair styling to reduce the facial width..



I had Two-Jaw Surgery three weeks ago and of course, titanium plates and screws which will only be removed in about 6 months were used to stabilize my jaws. I am also highly allergic to nickel, copper, platin, silver and gold to the point where I can not even wear rings on my fingers. What I did was to buy earrings made of titanium (although my surgeon already said there's almost no chance someone would have an allergic reaction to titanium) and watch if anything happens. Usually, using gold earrings, I'd have experienced a reaction in a matter of hours, but I wore them day and night for weeks and nothing happened, so in the end I went into the surgery without having to worry about allergic reactions! No guarantee on this, but that's what I did.


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## MissOrange

velvettini said:


> I had Two-Jaw Surgery three weeks ago and of course, titanium plates and screws which will only be removed in about 6 months were used to stabilize my jaws. I am also highly allergic to nickel, copper, platin, silver and gold to the point where I can not even wear rings on my fingers. What I did was to buy earrings made of titanium (although my surgeon already said there's almost no chance someone would have an allergic reaction to titanium) and watch if anything happens. Usually, using gold earrings, I'd have experienced a reaction in a matter of hours, but I wore them day and night for weeks and nothing happened, so in the end I went into the surgery without having to worry about allergic reactions! No guarantee on this, but that's what I did.


Thank you @velvettini. Wow that is promising. I guess it wasn't until the 6th year that my body reacted to the textured silicone implant and the gortex premaxilla implant so maybe my body can cope with 6 months to a year of titanium. My fear is my body reacted to the permanent sutures embedded inside my nose and I had an abscess infection 2.5 weeks postop. Had to have the sutures moved with another rhino at 2 months.


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## Gorme

MissOrange said:


> Thank you @velvettini. Wow that is promising. I guess it wasn't until the 6th year that my body reacted to the textured silicone implant and the gortex premaxilla implant so maybe my body can cope with 6 months to a year of titanium. My fear is my body reacted to the permanent sutures embedded inside my nose and I had an abscess infection 2.5 weeks postop. Had to have the sutures moved with another rhino at 2 months.





Hello Ms O

Just found this Elasticum Facelift that claimed to lift smas layer as well and last for 5 years according to Topface ps.


Maybe it can be a solution when you keep being refused smas?

Have you done any research on this Ms O?

Please let me know your thinking

Thank you dear


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## MissOrange

Gorme said:


> Hello Ms O
> 
> Just found this Elasticum Facelift that claimed to lift smas layer as well and last for 5 years according to Topface ps.
> 
> 
> Maybe it can be a solution when you keep being refused smas?
> 
> Have you done any research on this Ms O?
> 
> Please let me know your thinking
> 
> Thank you dear


Hi @Gorme,

Wow I have not heard of elasticum facelift. I shall look into it. I had my hair done yesterday and lo and behold my new hair colourist has titanium screws in his cheeks! He has no problems with them. I am back to obsessing about zygoma reduction. Lol. But all my friends say no to me so unless I can find 10 people who say yes, I need it, then best to play it safe.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Gorme,
> 
> Wow I have not heard of elasticum facelift. I shall look into it. I had my hair done yesterday and lo and behold my new hair colourist has titanium screws in his cheeks! He has no problems with them. I am back to obsessing about zygoma reduction. Lol. But all my friends say no to me so unless I can find 10 people who say yes, I need it, then best to play it safe.


@MissOrange I will definitely say no to you. Despite zygoma reduction helps in reducing the "width" of the face, it is going to cause sagging in another 1-2 years' time. Then you will need to spend another 10-20k for facelift. And zygoma reduction doesn't help in your side profile at all.


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## francoise_b

velvettini said:


> I had Two-Jaw Surgery three weeks ago and of course, titanium plates and screws which will only be removed in about 6 months were used to stabilize my jaws. I am also highly allergic to nickel, copper, platin, silver and gold to the point where I can not even wear rings on my fingers. What I did was to buy earrings made of titanium (although my surgeon already said there's almost no chance someone would have an allergic reaction to titanium) and watch if anything happens. Usually, using gold earrings, I'd have experienced a reaction in a matter of hours, but I wore them day and night for weeks and nothing happened, so in the end I went into the surgery without having to worry about allergic reactions! No guarantee on this, but that's what I did.


Hello Miss Orange, 
May I ask your opinion on zygoma reduction using dissolvable screws? The material for the screws is not metal but an organic compound that will dissolve over time. I heard that Namu , Opera, and TFD offer this option for zygoma reduction but not for mandible or chin bone contouring.


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## MissOrange

francoise_b said:


> Hello Miss Orange,
> May I ask your opinion on zygoma reduction using dissolvable screws? The material for the screws is not metal but an organic compound that will dissolve over time. I heard that Namu , Opera, and TFD offer this option for zygoma reduction but not for mandible or chin bone contouring.


Hi @francoise_b I have not researched dissolvable screws. One would need to check what material they use and talk to patients who tried this.


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## MissOrange

Just an update on prices of explants +/- lifts in the UK. The oncoplastic surgeon Mrs Harding-Mackean is offering en bloc removal of breast implants for £2987 but will only accept patients local to Chester which is near Liverpool. She was inundated with requests worldwide with her super low price for en bloc removal and lift for £3710-£4100 and again stresses she only wishes to operate on local ladies.

That leaves transpire as the next cheapest for removal and lift for under £4k.

The best for removal and no lift in my opinion is Guy Sterne in Birmingham for £4013 and he accepts patients worldwide. in my opinion, the best for en bloc removal and high lift is Cambridge grad David Floyd based in London. He charges £8k at Spire Bushey near Watford or £8.8k at the Wellington in London. Other commendable surgeons for removal with lift are Dr Frati for £7k in London and Dr Ouba in Edinburgh. The best for breast fat transfer in the uk in my opinion is Dr David Floyd whose patient posted a 6 month update photo with no fat absorption!

A 9 week post en bloc removal update..my dry eyes came back but now just comes and goes and on a scale of 1-10 is a 2-3 for nuisance. Much better than the 8-9 it was pre explant with pain, blurry vision, aching etc. I have been able to drink champagne again! No more melena, no heartburn and no weird vinegar acidic taste. My path report showed histiocytes reacting to the leaking silicone. So I do believe in breast implant illness and would encourage all ladies to explant your textured silicone implants and consider fat transfer instead in future.

I have my 3 yearly nhs mammogram tomorrow and am needing to decide on 0.4 mSvs of radiation or just skip as I have no fhx of breast cancer, am not obese (fat can be carcinogenic), do not take hrt and do not smoke. The thought of compressed breasts is scaring me as I am still recovering from intercostal muscle strain as my implants were under my pectoralis muscle.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on looking younger than 18!!! This week I sat in a breast clinic waiting for my mammogram and looking at ladies between ages 50 and 70 and the most aging factor was obesity! I analysed their faces and saw how excess fat distorts. So when you get older you can either have too little fat postmenopause that gives your face a bony skeletal look which happened to me or too much fat which then weighs down the face. Sigh. So it means maintaining an optimum weight and facial fat forever if you want to stay looking young into your 50s-70s.

Yesterday I went to Homebase to buy silver dip solution and went to pay. The elderly Asian female cashier surprised me by asking if I was over 18? I replied yes and wondered why I needed to be 18 to buy silver cleaning solution. She did not accept my answer and again asked me if I was over 18? I wanted to blurt out I am 52! But thought why admit your real age so I just said yes again. She looked dead serious so it was not said as a joke.

I got into my car and looked in the visor mirror. Did I really look younger than 18?
Wow and thought yes I can see why she asked! I took a selfie and analysed it. So less makeup, no false lashes and no lipstick makes me look like a teenager! I guess that means no more lipstick for me now. What do you think?

Praise be to Dr Seo of MVP who fixed my triple wrinkled eyelids in May 2016 and facial fat graft with ulthera in Feb 2018! The permanent fat in the upper lid has given me back my youthful eyes! And my high-pitched baby voice will always make me sound like a kid! lol. I guess the lesson is that if you succeed in looking 20s or younger then you cannot go around saying you are retired or in your 50s as it upsets people who see a young girl. Just go with the flow and if they ask if you are working or what your job is keep it simple and say no I am not working, I am attending school and learning korean. lol. Much more believable.


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## Fortunecat

You are looking good.
I am tempted to get a temple lift (temporoplasty). Do you think Dr Seo (MVP) will do a good job on that? 
Hmm...


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> You are looking good.
> I am tempted to get a temple lift (temporoplasty). Do you think Dr Seo (MVP) will do a good job on that?
> Hmm...


Hi @Fortunecat not sure. You could kakao them and ask.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat not sure. You could kakao them and ask.


Thank you!


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## missy_sana

Just want to say "Congrats" on reaching page #100 and nearing 1500 posts on this thread.

May you be forever young and beautiful, @MissOrange !  ‍♀️


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## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> Just want to say "Congrats" on reaching page #100 and nearing 1500 posts on this thread.
> 
> May you be forever young and beautiful, @MissOrange !  ‍♀️


Thank you @missy_sana! We both have been through our ups and downs with ps in Korea and you look young and beautiful too!

Now that I have blonde hair like the late Farrah and can style it in a similar way with an infrared styler and have her natural breast shape,  my next goal is to have her fit and toned body. The periareolar lift left me with her lower hanging 1970s breasts and not the high pert Barbie look

l have half a glass of oj and a boiled egg (protein) for breakfast. I am now eating a plate full of green salad with olive oil and white wine vinegar for lunch with a plate full of fresh strawberries, red grapes and honeydew melon. And for dinner salmon spaghetti or boiled potatoes with veg and one roast chicken leg. I have lost a lb a day on this low calorie but super healthy diet! And my tummy looks like I had liposuction but haven't. I want to tone up my batwing arms for good. The right upper arm is 11 inches in circumference and the left 10 inches! Asian ladies have told me they weigh 89 lbs and are my height! No wonder k pop stars and k drama actresses look so good. But in the West the super thin look is not as popular and I might end up going from a d cup to an a/b cup! I have ruled out breast FT as it would take too many trips to korea for top ups, and I would die when they sag and deflate after each reabsorption. Plus I just don't have 300-400 ccs of body fat to transfer. The picture was taken at 10 weeks post explant with the rear camera of the S9 of my mirror reflection so as true an image as possible. My upper arms are turned inward so you don't see the small flab.

I know what you are thinking. I don't have her face and yes wish I had her thin face and long nose but first waiting for my periareolar shape repair hopefully this summer and then re-evaluate my face.

At least with en bloc breast implant explant, I am now free of lymphoma-inducing silicone and was getting tired of my 20 years long Dolly Parton top heavy look on my petite frame. The good news is I can lift them high in a £6 m&s rosie autograph silk bra from ebay and clothes now look more tailored.


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## MissOrange

Ladies in their 50s are now asking me for advice on anti-aging. If you cannot afford plastic surgery, then my advice is to maintain a bmi of at least 18.7. I am surprised to hear ladies my petite height weighing anywhere between 85 and 90 lbs. This depletes most of your facial fat and expedites ageing as it leaves behind a sunken or bony face. Youth is associated with baby cheeks/baby fat face. If you are my height 5'1-2 then try to maintain a weight of 99 lbs and do not go below 97 lbs. If you need to look good for an event, then drink lots of still or filtered water which plumps up your facial fat cells. I usually drink water as I get ready and also while sitting in the passenger seat.

Here is a comparison of me yesterday aged 52 vs at age 6 (we were the only korean family living in East London at the time so I did not know my face was normal for a korean and meant to look different from British children). See how I have managed to turn back the decades and try to recapture my baby face.


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## MissOrange

Fascinating to see a facelift on an 80 year old. It is good research to analyse for what I will need to do in the future.


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## MissOrange

On page 100, I would like to thank all the worldwide readers out there who have viewed my thread over 149,000 times! I was asked by individuals to write a book on plastic surgery rejuvenation but chose to keep it free for all to access and read in this Asian plastic surgery site. And after writing 18 books, I am done writing books. I suppose the only downside is that there is no list of chapters or much organisation to the 100 pages but for those passionate about rejuvenation, reading all 100 pages with lots of photos should be helpful as it has been a learning curve for me too.


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## MissOrange

Here is an example of losing too much weight which may result in premature aging with loss of facial fat volume. Steven Tyler looked healthy and youthful when he weighed more but at age 57 he is thin with little body fat and this may have contributed to facial sagging and wrinkling alongside alcohol which is a dessicant and dries up the skin. If he gained weight and drank water instead, he may look younger without surgery.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on breast surgery. Many opt for breast augmentation with implants and I have been there with 4 failed banned sets, 3 had CE Europe's regulator approval and the 4th had US FDA approval. Yet after x years each was found to be either cancer causing or leaking toxic substances. In other words, implants are not for life and are not wholly safe.

Then we have fat transfer. Great if you have spare fat to transfer but not great that it costs 4-5 million won in korea or £5k in the UK or $7-9k in USA. And results are variable from lasting only 3 weeks to 6 months, which means expensive top ups.

Then there is my category, too thin for breast FT. Here are photos at 97 lbs in an orange bikini top on a plant based non dairy diet (750 calories a day of green salad and fruits) vs 99 lbs in a red bra on a high fat American diet x 2 days (peanut butter, ice cream, red velvet cake, doughnuts, captain crunch cereal, milk duds, and kraft mac and cheese). It appears a weight of 99-100 lbs for 5'2" is essential to boost breast tissue. Now work out your ideal weight for natural full breasts! My next task is to work out how to sustain the full d cup size without the American diet of unhealthy fats and sugars.

Remember if you are too thin, not only may your face look older, bony with wrinkling and saggy skin but also your breasts may deflate! Think of ballerinas and their flat chests! Breasts are essentially adipose fat tissue surrounding mammary glands over a thin layer of muscles and ribs.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on finding the best weight for your face. Yesterday I weighed myself and read 101 lbs! So I threw away the rest of the Hummingbird red velvet cake. But then noticed my face. It looked like I had a fat graft top up?! My forehead and malar cheeks looked fuller. I am now really confused as to whether I should weigh 97, 99 or even 101 lbs? I read Miss Korea 2018 got trolled for being the heaviest Miss Korea but she looks great and healthy. I can't imagine a 5'8 contestant weighing only 110 lbs?

Anyways yesterday was mothering sunday in the uk so I went through my old photos and found one of me at 24, my korean mum at age 52 and compared this to me yesterday at 52 and 101 lbs. Wow!

But I still feel I am not a Gangnam beauty yet. I am now watching ID Gangnam beauty on netflix and the taxi driver father is upset as his daughter had full facial plastic surgery and does not look like him anymore. This reminded me of when I met my late father's korean sisters when I was 49 and they wanted to see a family resemblance but by then I had already started on my facial plastic surgery journey. One day I will get zygoma reduction and then smas facelift but the problem will be the longer I wait, the thinner my facial bones will become with ageing and osteoporosis!


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## missy_sana

Happy 100th Page and 1500th Post, @MissOrange !


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## MissOrange

Thank you @missy_sana for creating the photos. Wish I looked like the meiku beauty app photos in real life!

I came across an amazing zygoma reduction instagram photo and am back obsessing over zygoma reduction with Dr Oh of Regen. My friend has worked out that my current heavy looking glasses is doing my cheeks no favours or the fact that I am applying blush to the wrong areas! So before I impulsively book zygoma reduction, I will try new ulzzang style ultra light weight glasses and try different makeup.

I finished watching all 16 episodes of My ID Gangnam Beauty and am now wanting a female version of the perfect face! The male lead actor Cha Eunwoo looks like he had des as his middle school photos in real life shows smaller eyes vs in the k drama he has big eyes with parallel creases.


----------



## Gorme

Hi hi Miss O 

I just re read this thread and found out you mention dr Yoo dream as one of your potential surgeon for smas, do you mind telling me is it still the case?

Why'd you choose dr Yoo?

I havent heard any single review on him for FL.

TIA


----------



## MissOrange

Gorme said:


> Hi hi Miss O
> 
> I just re read this thread and found out you mention dr Yoo dream as one of your potential surgeon for smas, do you mind telling me is it still the case?
> 
> Why'd you choose dr Yoo?
> 
> I havent heard any single review on him for FL.
> 
> TIA


Hi @Gorme, I don't remember. I would now say see Asps for FL or Dr Seo at mvp for FL.

But before you consider expensive FL try 2 things...if you are very underweight, try to gain a few lbs to add volume back to your face or try increasing your water intake to add volume.

Here is a photo of my lower face first thing in the morning when I awake dehydrated with a dry mouth. See how any plastic surgeon would then agree to do a lower FL but the next photo is after drinking 330 cls of water, ie a can size of water. See how the skin and tissue expands and lifts the face. In fact the more water I drink the more the face plumps up naturally. Rule out dehydration and being too thin as causes of skin sagging and facial volume loss first.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on how to live longer. No point in looking younger if you get diagnosed with cancer and die prematurely so can we reduce our risks of dying from cancer? I wondered why 1 in 8 women get breast cancer in America especially after I heard a slim non smoker with no family history of breast cancer got breast cancer at age 50 in usa!

Then I remembered radon gas...Radon is carcinogenic and here in the uk the highest levels are found in Devon and Cornwall where coincidentally cancer rates are double that of London. I looked at USA and while California is orange or moderate levels of radon, north and nw are in the red, like Illinois for instance!

Turns out Czech republic has the highest levels of radon in the world, followed by S Korea! In fact 30% of deaths in korea are due to cancer, followed by suicide as second.

After mastectomy, ladies often in their 50s+ face extensive reconstruction and an unsettling decision as to whether to get implants. USA are the only country in the world to continue to sell textured silicone breast implants linked to lymphoma despite France being the first country to ban these cancer causing implants.

A lot of food for thought. Living in London is safe enough with regards to radon but genetics means 20% of the pop may have high lipoprotein A linked to increased risk of heart attacks and strokes. I am trying niacin and coenzyme q 10 supplements as I can only find these 2 in research papers that have successfully reduced lpa levels in the blood. Interestingly research papers show statins do not affect lpa levels!

In my 50s, I have 2 decades to solve high lipoprotein A or face a debilitating stroke and death from stroke in my 70s.


----------



## cythr

MissOrange said:


> Thank you @missy_sana for creating the photos. Wish I looked like the meiku beauty app photos in real life!
> 
> I came across an amazing zygoma reduction instagram photo and am back obsessing over zygoma reduction with Dr Oh of Regen. My friend has worked out that my current heavy looking glasses is doing my cheeks no favours or the fact that I am applying blush to the wrong areas! So before I impulsively book zygoma reduction, I will try new ulzzang style ultra light weight glasses and try different makeup.
> 
> I finished watching all 16 episodes of My ID Gangnam Beauty and am now wanting a female version of the perfect face! The male lead actor Cha Eunwoo looks like he had des as his middle school photos in real life shows smaller eyes vs in the k drama he has big eyes with parallel creases.



Im pretty sure Cha Eun-woo is actually all natural. He has had photos of him from all ages shown on tv and has been somewhat famous from a young age because of his looks. Plus he also has no double eyelid surgery scars.


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## MissOrange

cythr said:


> Im pretty sure Cha Eun-woo is actually all natural. He has had photos of him from all ages shown on tv and has been somewhat famous from a young age because of his looks. Plus he also has no double eyelid surgery scars.


@cythr By comparing his before and after I would also add he had jawbone reduction. His chin is a lot shorter and flatter which gives a more Japanese anime look vs his before chin was more prominent. His eyes are now bigger and more open which suggests some form of des, incision or non incisional, in my opinion.

See how a full fringe along with a shorter chin creates a smaller face. Fascinating how he has created a perfect face and been named Korea's GQ man of the year. He is the real gangnam beauty.


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## MissOrange

Thank you @missy_sana for the amazing youtube link to haircuts to mask a wide face or zygoma! Oh my goodness, I don't need zygoma reduction! I just need to stop cutting my own hair and get a professional cut like one in the video clip!



I was planning on going back down to 97 lbs and fill my face with drinking water. Maybe I should bite the bullet and try a fringed bob! Looks like I already tried the long blonde hair with layering like in the clip. At the moment I am using an infrared ionic straightener that gives a sleek pressed straight hair look and cut my own fringe to look like the first photo. My hair doesn't want to stay forward on the sides. Amazing how their hair hangs forward over the sides of their faces! I want these side hair curtains! The bottom photo reminds me of blogger bongqiuqiu.


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## arnott

^ I remember you said before that  "long hair = youth".       Did you change your mind now that you want a bob?    

JLo, who's turning 50 this year looks better with shorter hair imo:


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## MissOrange

arnott said:


> ^ I remember you said before that  "long hair = youth".       Did you change your mind now that you want a bob?
> 
> JLo, who's turning 50 this year looks better with shorter hair imo:



@arnott yes you are right to remind me. Long hair does equate to youth. Maybe I will get a bob when I turn 60. My OH prefers me with long hair. Guess that means I use the hair straightener, grow it long to drape the sides like curtain drapes and wear a full fringe...curtain fringe! lol. Why am I obsessing about curtains?


----------



## niniwowo

MissOrange said:


> Today's post follows on @SheOnlyLooks25 's post on fat graft complications. I thought it useful to share my fat graft lipoma lump on my forehead I got from fg earlier this year. The photo was taken yesterday so has not disappeared after 7 months. The good news is that it is only visible if I try to raise my eyebrows or look up but if I do, this is the visible fat lump in the middle of my forehead along with 2 forehead wrinkles (perhaps time for a botox top up). If I wear my hair as a curtain fringe then I don't have to worry about the lump popping out if I look up at everyone who is taller. Sigh.
> 
> The next photo is a selfie from yesterday with no frowning, raising of brows or looking up. Thank goodness the lump is not visible on my resting facial expression. I used to surgically remove fatty lipomas when I was a surgeon so am not holding my breath that it will absorb over time. Sigh.
> 
> The slight nasolabial crease shadows suggest I am due radiesse dermal filler soon as the filler dissolves over 2-4 months and does not last 12-18 months as you may be told. The other option would be paranasal silicon implants but this would cost 7 million won and may risk getting an infection or rejection so for me it has been radiesse dermal fillers for over a decade. I see many older ladies who neglect the nasolabial folds and the crease then deepens and ages them (see stock photo). It is an easy enough fix with dermal fillers with immediate results and no down time.


Hi @MissOrange my fat graft also left me with two lumps which is worrying me alot. It has been over a year and it's not getting any better.. There was one occasion it actually bloated up to a hard half marble size lump suddenly !!! I massage it and a bruise appeared next day.. And it still hurts a little.  It really scare the hell out of me.
I had steroids jab on it but it didn't help at all.  Can I ask if you experience the same thing? I really don't know what to do. Feel like surgically removing it but I am scared it will leave a scar.


----------



## MissOrange

niniwowo said:


> Hi @MissOrange my fat graft also left me with two lumps which is worrying me alot. It has been over a year and it's not getting any better.. There was one occasion it actually bloated up to a hard half marble size lump suddenly !!! I massage it and a bruise appeared next day.. And it still hurts a little.  It really scare the hell out of me.
> I had steroids jab on it but it didn't help at all.  Can I ask if you experience the same thing? I really don't know what to do. Feel like surgically removing it but I am scared it will leave a scar.


Hi @niniwowo, You reminded me to look at my forehead and frown to see if the central fat pad is still there. I just checked and it has flattened! Yay. So it happened before 14 months postop. It could either have had fluid in it or were excess fat cells that reabsorbed over a year later. That means do nothing and wait like I did. It was the first time ever I had a fat lump post fat transfer so like you got scared but I just told myself think positively and wait for it to reabsorb. If it is huge and not going away, then you can get lipoma resection but that leaves a scar. You could also try to lose a few lbs to starve out or shrink the fat cells in the lumps perhaps?


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## MissOrange

I have been asked for what head compression bandage I used post fat transfer. Here it is.

Also I came across an article explaining a real vs fake smile. Now I know why when I say cheese or try to smile for selfies, my smile looks off! Even my daughters said I need to practice smiling! Seems we have to use our eye muscles too!


----------



## niniwowo

MissOrange said:


> Hi @niniwowo, You reminded me to look at my forehead and frown to see if the central fat pad is still there. I just checked and it has flattened! Yay. So it happened before 14 months postop. It could either have had fluid in it or were excess fat cells that reabsorbed over a year later. That means do nothing and wait like I did. It was the first time ever I had a fat lump post fat transfer so like you got scared but I just told myself think positively and wait for it to reabsorb. If it is huge and not going away, then you can get lipoma resection but that leaves a scar. You could also try to lose a few lbs to starve out or shrink the fat cells in the lumps perhaps?


Thank you for replying me. @MissOrange Glad that yours has flattened . I Might have to really consider lipoma resection as I don't think I can lose any more weight. 
Am already quite underweight ...
Hope it's nothing too serious.. As I am so scared.


----------



## MissOrange

niniwowo said:


> Thank you for replying me. @MissOrange Glad that yours has flattened . I Might have to really consider lipoma resection as I don't think I can lose any more weight.
> Am already quite underweight ...
> Hope it's nothing too serious.. As I am so scared.


Hi @niniwowo,

I kept pressing firmly on the lump to break up the fat cells which helped. Do you have a photo of the lumps? Hard to comment without seeing the size and location.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a selfie taken today exposing my botoxfree forehead and no lump. It has been almost 2 years since I had botox to my forehead. I am trying to go natural..no acrylic nails, no botox and no breast implants. Can we still look good? I think from years of botox my forehead muscles have learned not to frown.


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Here is a selfie taken today exposing my botoxfree forehead and no lump. It has been almost 2 years since I had botox to my forehead. I am trying to go natural..no acrylic nails, no botox and no breast implants. Can we still look good? I think from years of botox my forehead muscles have learned not to frown.



Your forehead and temples too look great! It's definitely a marker of youth when you have fullness there. 

How are the lines in your forehead when you raise your brows? My worry is repeated normal expressions will eventually etch lines in my forehead that will become permanent as you age. I guess the fg saved you money from having to get botox every few months since the added fat serves as a sort of cushion to absorb the muscle movements before it reaches the skin? Yet another reason for me to get fg!


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Your forehead and temples too look great! It's definitely a marker of youth when you have fullness there.
> 
> How are the lines in your forehead when you raise your brows? My worry is repeated normal expressions will eventually etch lines in my forehead that will become permanent as you age. I guess the fg saved you money from having to get botox every few months since the added fat serves as a sort of cushion to absorb the muscle movements before it reaches the skin? Yet another reason for me to get fg!


@Gats when I frown really hard there are a few faint lines near the hairline. But I have to consciously frown very hard as even when I look up there are no lines. 

Yesterday was particularly hot for the uk so I drank +++ water. I lost count of how many glasses of water! I weighed 99 lbs yesterday morning and instead of dieting ate a big croissant, doughnut, bulgogi, 2 bowls of rice for breakfast and lunch and took these selfies by the pool. I was baffled as I thought my face would look bloated but instead it looked like I had had a fat graft top up?! 

I am baffled as to what weight to be. I thought my face looked good at 97.2 lbs but now it looks good at over 99 lbs. I am just terrified of the dehydrated look with sunken sagging lower face and accentuated big cheeks. Once you experience a dehydrated face post fat transfer it is frightening!


----------



## MissOrange

It has been 3.5 months post en bloc explant of my textured silicone allergan/mcghan breast implants and the breast implant illness symptoms of EOE oesophagitis, ulcer, dry painful burning eyes, alcohol intolerance with rectal bleeding, sustained tachycardia are all gone for good. My path report showed extensive histiocytic reaction to silicone and leakage/rupture of the right implant. Thank goodness I got them out in just under 7 years of having them, before I got permanent bii symptoms, spread of silicone throughout my lymphatics,
 or even worse t cell mutation into lymphoma cancer! If you insist on getting implants, pay by credit card so you can claim a section 75 if they rupture or get banned and sadly US FDA approval does not guarantee they are safe. I made both these mistakes when I got my 4th set which is now my last.

It is a major psychological stressor to go from big chested to teen size but putting one's health first is a must. I have been debating whether to try breast fat transfer but costs range from $9k Dr Burns in Texas to $11k Dr Bednar and 4-5 million won or $4.5k at Fresh clinic in Korea. My fears are that the fat won't last, the fat will cause breast drooping from the weight, the skin will sag more if the fat reabsorbs as more skin will have been stretched to inject larger amounts of fat, ie 150-200 ccs per side etc. Then I read how if your cup size is a d you do not need fat transfer. So like me debating zygoma reduction, I am also shelving breast FT for now.

Here is my first bikini selfie taken yesterday 3.5 months post explant. Another lesson is to buy a more structured padded bikini top. This one seems to emphasize a small chest!


----------



## MissOrange

It's almost May and my 3 year anniversary since I got rid of my aging  hollow triple crease eyelids in 2016 at age 50. I am really pleased that my eyelids still look young in 2019 at almost 53. I would rank getting des, ptosis and eyelid fat graft all together in one op as the best antiaging value for money operation and if you can only afford one surgery, this is it. I paid 3 million won in low season 2016 and the exchange rate was very favourable back then ie £1600. I bought the cheapest economy fare for £460 and stayed in £60/night 3 star accommodations for a week.

Then save for full face fat graft or just gain weight and know you need to drink 2 litres of water a day! 20% is in your food so you may subtract 400 mls.

I am still shocked that facelifts cost up to $13k in korea. Haven't had that yet but budgeting for when I am 60.


----------



## MissOrange

Here are some home cam stills of me over Easter lunch. I am stuck as I can't find anything to fix at the moment so have no excuse to fly to Korea this year. My Korean has improved immensely after 1.5 years of weekly korean classes but I have no chance to use them in korea! . 

I now have to live life as a young girl as no one treats me like a 50+ year old adjumma which means I get no respect as an elderly lady. lol.


----------



## cythr

MissOrange said:


> @cythr By comparing his before and after I would also add he had jawbone reduction. His chin is a lot shorter and flatter which gives a more Japanese anime look vs his before chin was more prominent. His eyes are now bigger and more open which suggests some form of des, incision or non incisional, in my opinion.
> 
> See how a full fringe along with a shorter chin creates a smaller face. Fascinating how he has created a perfect face and been named Korea's GQ man of the year. He is the real gangnam beauty.



I see what you mean but Obviously in the photos you showed he had alot more fat in his face than he does now and also he has always had quite a high double eyelid. You can see in the photo below that in middle school the stronger shape of his jaw had started to show due to loss of baby fat and obviously as a middle schooler you cant be getting full reconstructive jaw surgery and fat removal. I think he is just one of the very few people in the world blessed with a near perfect face.


----------



## PoppyPot

MissOrange said:


> It's almost May and my 3 year anniversary since I got rid of my aging  hollow triple crease eyelids in 2016 at age 50. I am really pleased that my eyelids still look young in 2019 at almost 53. I would rank getting des, ptosis and eyelid fat graft all together in one op as the best antiaging value for money operation and if you can only afford one surgery, this is it. I paid 3 million won in low season 2016 and the exchange rate was very favourable back then ie £1600. I bought the cheapest economy fare for £460 and stayed in £60/night 3 star accommodations for a week.
> 
> Then save for full face fat graft or just gain weight and know you need to drink 2 litres of water a day! 20% is in your food so you may subtract 400 mls.
> 
> I am still shocked that facelifts cost up to $13k in korea. Haven't had that yet but budgeting for when I am 60.




Hi,
What is DES?
WHere did you do your eyes?
Could anyone Suggest which Clinic to choose from in Korea, VIEW or JK clinic ?
Im intending to do a revision for Double eyelid with Ptosis correction end May, but I keep seeing mixed reviews.


----------



## MissOrange

PoppyPot said:


> Hi,
> What is DES?
> WHere did you do your eyes?
> Could anyone Suggest which Clinic to choose from in Korea, VIEW or JK clinic ?
> Im intending to do a revision for Double eyelid with Ptosis correction end May, but I keep seeing mixed reviews.


Hi @PoppyPot, des is double eyelid surgery or upper blepharoplasty. I had my eyes done by Dr Seo at Most Valuable Plastic surgery clinic in Apgujeong, Seoul for 3 million won 3 years ago.

View and JK are big hospitals and can be expensive so I chose mvp as they were the most reasonably priced for a board certified plastic surgeon and I liked his results on a lady from Australia. I spent months chatting with her to be sure he was the one for me.

View surgeons were in the Let me in makeover series. For bone contouring it looks like View does a great job (read krisven's review thread with photos).

I am trying to work out if I need zygoma reduction or full bone contouring as my face is still wide and it would be between Regen and View.


----------



## angelface88

MissOrange said:


> Yesterday I took a selfie aged 52 to compare with what I looked like 19 months ago at age 50. Huge difference. The before was taken in October 2016 after 2 full face regular fat transfers with DAPRS. As you can see I was so upset it did not last and had endured weeks of monster DAPRS face only to look old again a month post the second fat transfer at DAPRS and 2 long flights to Korea in July and September 2016. The vermillion lip lift by Dr Choi at MVP had not lasted either as the photo is also 4 months post this. The after photo shows bullhorn lip lift after 16 months. Now that I have had a total of 5 fat transfers to my upper lids (last one was prp fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP) and 4 fat transfers to my full face (last one finally prp fat transfer), it seems to be holding now at 3 months post prp. Looks like for me I need 5 fat transfers for permanency. I may consider a 5th fat transfer to my lower face next year but for now I am happy. I showed Dr Seo at MVP a photo of the famous Korean actress/model Han Ye Seul and said make me look like her. Aside from needing a longer nose and platinum hair dye, he did a pretty good job on an ajumma! So much better than DAPRS clinic. I just need to stop applying Western makeup and try the Korean style. I may try professional hair dyeing at a hair training academy in London.


Hi @MissOrange, so this result to full face was as a result of Dr Seo fat graft? Still trying to decide whether to see him or Dr. Oh, and whether or not to do the whole FG thing at all (or stick with annoying fillers ) :/


----------



## MissOrange

angelface88 said:


> Hi @MissOrange, so this result to full face was as a result of Dr Seo fat graft? Still trying to decide whether to see him or Dr. Oh, and whether or not to do the whole FG thing at all (or stick with annoying fillers ) :/


Hi @angelface88,

Firstly, the face loses fat with weight loss so rule this out by checking your bmi. Knowing this I still do not want to weigh over 100 lbs and am back down to 97 lbs as I want to get rid of my cheek fat. I think pinching an inch of cheek fat means my face may be looking wide due to this extra fat. But if I lose more weight, my face may end up looking bony so I will try to combat this by drinking +++ water. I  think the s9 camera is making my face narrower than it truly is which is making it difficult to decide on zygoma reduction or not.

Secondly dehydration causes facial deflation so drink 1.5- 2 litres in a day and see if your face improves. I can barely manage to drink 660 mls a day so need to be consciously aware that I need to drink more as the lower face fat graft reacts poorly to dehydration by shrinking, deflating and sagging. If you are happy to take this risk of fat graft causing lower face sagging from skin stretching, then try fat graft. In other words only try fat graft if your face is really bad.

Thirdly, there is a commitment needed to fly back to korea for top ups as each time at least 50% of the fat reabsorbs between 3 weeks to 3 months. The key phrase is at least 50%. Sometimes it may be 90% reabsorption etc. Picking the most experienced surgeon at fat transfer is vital.

This means use dermal fillers for temples and nasolabial folds until your face looks old and super deflated from fat loss before embarking on a long journey to fat graft rejuvenation.

I always say that with every plastic surgery procedure there may be a downside side effect to deal with so you must truly look bad before you take that risk.


----------



## MissOrange

After pinching an inch of fat in each cheek, I decided to try an experiment. Instead of focus on zygoma reduction, focus on reducing the fat in my cheeks! This meant reducing my weight to 96.8 lbs (bmi 18.3) and drink copious amounts of water and daily cups of green or jasmine tea. I have noticed I now cannot pull out an inch of skin or fat in my cheeks! In fact it seems to have tightened my skin!

For postmenopausal brittle over bleached hair, I highly recommend the Aria infrared hair straightener. Easy to use at home and now I don’t bother with salon blowdries. I have been using the aria this year and cannot live without it. My hair looks so frizzy pre aria, like the girl in the k drama ‘She was pretty’.  It just takes 10 minutes in the morning and lasts for 2 days. I also apply heat protector spray and finish styling my hair with argan oil. I also use l’oreal coconut oil hair masque after conditioner to keep my hair moist. Anyone dyeing their hair from black to brown to blonde to dark brown to light brown in less than a year, definitely needs hair treatment! I am now ready to embrace being 53 years young! I now have 7 years to work out how to survive turning 60!!!!


----------



## MOTTY26

cythr said:


> I see what you mean but Obviously in the photos you showed he had alot more fat in his face than he does now and also he has always had quite a high double eyelid. You can see in the photo below that in middle school the stronger shape of his jaw had started to show due to loss of baby fat and obviously as a middle schooler you cant be getting full reconstructive jaw surgery and fat removal. I think he is just one of the very few people in the world blessed with a near perfect face.
> View attachment 4419488




wow beauty is indeed really subjective.
no offense,  but i dont find him hot at all... nor he got a perfect face. LOL
a cutie, maybe.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on the lure of instagram transformations. I wonder who is the surgeon at Grand who did this amazing facelift? But my fear would be the unexplained patient death there. Did the patient have a pre-existing heart condition?

The breast fat transfer at Fresh looks amazing too and it looks like fat was taken from the upper arms even. 

And the Regen cheek reduction photo almost had me buy a plane ticket until I tried my cheek fat reduction experiment. Thank goodness the fat still remained in my upper lids.

I am awaiting my Birmingham surgeon to come back to me with a date for areola reop to symmetrise before I can even consider breast FT.


----------



## Sara88

Hi Miss Orange, can you tell me what Regen did with cheek reduction? Was it bone shaving or Acculift/Lipo? Thanks. 





MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on the lure of instagram transformations. I wonder who is the surgeon at Grand who did this amazing facelift? But my fear would be the unexplained patient death there. Did the patient have a pre-existing heart condition?
> 
> The breast fat transfer at Fresh looks amazing too and it looks like fat was taken from the upper arms even.
> 
> And the Regen cheek reduction photo almost had me buy a plane ticket until I tried my cheek fat reduction experiment. Thank goodness the fat still remained in my upper lids.
> 
> I am awaiting my Birmingham surgeon to come back to me with a date for areola reop to symmetrise before I can even consider breast FT.


----------



## MissOrange

angelface88 said:


> Hi @MissOrange, so this result to full face was as a result of Dr Seo fat graft? Still trying to decide whether to see him or Dr. Oh, and whether or not to do the whole FG thing at all (or stick with annoying fillers ) :/


Hi @angelface88 yes I have not had any more fat graft since Dr Seo did a full face fat graft Feb 2018 and I have been drinking plenty of water to prevent a sunken look from dehydration. I really like how my upper lids are still full and young. I now weigh what I weighed when I flew to Korea Feb of last year, ie 96.8 lbs and my face looks better than it did pre his full face fat graft so the new placement of the fat is still working! I think by comparing my photos with Dr Oh’s fat graft patients on the RealSelf site you can see which you prefer. I like how Dr Seo makes me even more beautiful so it is not just rejuvenation but beautification too!


----------



## MissOrange

Sara88 said:


> Hi Miss Orange, can you tell me what Regen did with cheek reduction? Was it bone shaving or Acculift/Lipo? Thanks.


Hi @Sara88 I haven’t had cheek reduction at Regen. I have just been losing weight and balancing the weight loss with increasing my fluid intake. Regen offers cheek reduction by bone surgery, ie cutting the maxilla through the mouth, rotating the zygoma, then fixing with plate and screws I believe. I only had one consult with Dr Oh and he said it was a one hour procedure with one week recovery. If I had to choose someone to do zygoma reduction on me, it would only be Dr Oh at Regen as in my 3/4 view my cheekbones protrude. Can’t see them in my side profile. I may still end up getting it done but am trying to find conservative ways to achieve a small narrow face for now.


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## Sara88

Thanks for your reply. From what I’ve seen of your pictures, you have a narrow, small and beautiful face. 





MissOrange said:


> Hi @Sara88 I haven’t had cheek reduction at Regen. I have just been losing weight and balancing the weight loss with increasing my fluid intake. Regen offers cheek reduction by bone surgery, ie cutting the maxilla through the mouth, rotating the zygoma, then fixing with plate and screws I believe. I only had one consult with Dr Oh and he said it was a one hour procedure with one week recovery. If I had to choose someone to do zygoma reduction on me, it would only be Dr Oh at Regen as in my 3/4 view my cheekbones protrude. Can’t see them in my side profile. I may still end up getting it done but am trying to find conservative ways to achieve a small narrow face for now.


----------



## MissOrange

16 months post full face fat graft and 53 years old. How can Dr Seo create such beauty in someone my age? It gives so much hope to ladies 50+.

My next surgery is areola symmetrisation on July 17 in the uk. Fortunately the original surgeon will fix this for me 6 months postop en bloc implant removal. Still of 2 minds as to whether to try breast fat transfer.


----------



## MissOrange

Well it's official. I am now 53 years young looking 20s. Took some selfies in Brighton only for some young chap to photobomb my shots. Then I thought heck I can pretend it's a beach scene from a k drama. I look young enough! The sunglasses are Steve Madden.


----------



## MissOrange

Okay well my going back to brown hair phase did not last long. I missed blonde balayage too much. And now as if by magic I am blonde again. I noticed many after surgery photos have lighter hair and more makeup than before photos.

My next surgery areola symmetrisation is July 17 and am still researching breast fat transfer. My options are Mvp and Fresh in Seoul, Dr Bednar in N Carolina renowned for finding 500ccs of fat for each breast from lipo everywhere on skinny ladies or Dr David Floyd in London who has good 6 month results.

Meanwhile I am noticing marionette lines or folds! Yikes. How does one get rid of them? It's the only giveaway that I am 53!


----------



## missy_sana

@MissOrange , omg, loving your new blonde do!  Your best hair transformation yet!  And I'd also like to know how to best deal with the nasolabial & marionette lines, non-surgically?

Following what I posted before, just thought that I post the following:

Thoughts?



"ideal beauty" video link:


----------



## Jessicala

missy_sana said:


> @MissOrange , omg, loving your new blonde do!  Your best hair transformation yet!  And I'd also like to know how to best deal with the nasolabial & marionette lines, non-surgically?
> 
> Following what I posted before, just thought that I post the following:
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> "ideal beauty" video link:



Taylor is such a natural beauty ❤️


----------



## Tourmaline102083

Hello, do you recommend facial exercises? Yes, no and why?


----------



## MissOrange

missy_sana said:


> @MissOrange , omg, loving your new blonde do!  Your best hair transformation yet!  And I'd also like to know how to best deal with the nasolabial & marionette lines, non-surgically?
> 
> Following what I posted before, just thought that I post the following:
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> "ideal beauty" video link:



Hi @missy_sana 

Really interesting video. I choose to follow instagrammers based on looks as I am trying to work out how to look trendy.

Some days I want to look Caucasian living here in the UK and some days I want to look my natural Korean after watching k dramas. 

Looks like I should try mascara and no eyeshadow next.


----------



## MissOrange

Tourmaline102083 said:


> Hello, do you recommend facial exercises? Yes, no and why?


Hi @Tourmaline102083

My hairdresser recommended I chew gum to tighten my lower facial muscles. He said the face is made up of muscles! I never thought of facial muscle exercises but he has a point. Would be good if I could find gum without sugar or sorbitol. I remember seeing videos of an older lady using facial exercises instead of a facelift. As I prefer the easiest way, I rely on drinking water to add volume and lift my lower face for now but should try facial exercises.


----------



## Tourmaline102083

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Tourmaline102083
> 
> My hairdresser recommended I chew gum to tighten my lower facial muscles. He said the face is made up of muscles! I never thought of facial muscle exercises but he has a point. Would be good if I could find gum without sugar or sorbitol. I remember seeing videos of an older lady using facial exercises instead of a facelift.





MissOrange said:


> Hi @Tourmaline102083
> 
> My hairdresser recommended I chew gum to tighten my lower facial muscles. He said the face is made up of muscles! I never thought of facial muscle exercises but he has a point. Would be good if I could find gum without sugar or sorbitol. I remember seeing videos of an older lady using facial exercises instead of a facelift.



 I read somewhere that they may cause stretching of the skin and loss of elastin and collagen. Pros and cons in your opinion?


----------



## MissOrange

I have finally completed my experiment and the conclusion is I do not need zygoma reduction! Yay. I realised I could pinch an inch of fat in each cheek so decided to get my weight down to 97 lbs (actimel probiotic drink one daily allows me to eat chinese food and not gain weight) and maintain fat graft volume with 2x 330 ml bottles of water and one green tea. The result is that the face looks smaller, the skin has tightened, I cannot pinch an inch in my cheeks and I have reached my endpoint with facial plastic surgery. Getting a flattering haircut with blonde balayage has made my face shape look more oval than round or square too. I don't need to hide my cheeks or forehead anymore with hair.


----------



## chpwhy

That's awesome @MissOrange, i have learnt so much from you. 2 weeks ago i went to MVP for my second fat graft (first was april last year).  Doc Seo put the fats on my eye lids, cheeks and chin. I paid 1 million won this time. As usual first week i looked wierd. Today is the 14th day and i am happy that i look "normal". Surgery and recovery was a breeze. Had a fat graft lump on my right mid cheek but i massaged it daily and it's now gone. I would be happy to do this every year as its much cheaper than putting filler in Singapore. 
Addition: My bruises faded relatively quickly this time, i use a home red light theraphy device 30 mins everyday on the lipo areas.


----------



## MissOrange

chpwhy said:


> That's awesome @MissOrange, i have learnt so much from you. 2 weeks ago i went to MVP for my second fat graft (first was april last year).  Doc Seo put the fats on my eye lids, cheeks and chin. I paid 1 million won this time. As usual first week i looked wierd. Today is the 14th day and i am happy that i look "normal". Surgery and recovery was a breeze. Had a fat graft lump on my right mid cheek but i massaged it daily and it's now gone. I would be happy to do this every year as its much cheaper than putting filler in Singapore.
> Addition: My bruises faded relatively quickly this time, i use a home red light theraphy device 30 mins everyday on the lipo areas.


Really pleased for you @chpwhy! Dr Seo was expecting me back this year too for a top up but water seems to be doing the trick in maintaining the fat graft. I think I overdid long haul flights to korea between 2016 and 2018. From never having visited Korea to 5 long haul return flights in 3 years! Yes 1 million won a year for maintenance top ups is way cheaper than prices in Singapore. If I lived closer to korea I would be getting everything done there from facials to eyebrow tattooing to laser hair removal!

This year has been consumed with waiting the 6 months to get my areola correction in July. I've gone from being top heavy to now bottom heavy after explant. Still trying to come to terms with no breast implants and do I start a new saga of breast FTs or not. My choices are do nothing, try Mr David Floyd in London for breast FT for £5k, try Fresh korea for 4-5 million won+ flights+ hotels, try Dr Bednar in N Carolina for $9 k + flights + hotels. Sigh.


----------



## MissOrange

I did an interview yesterday for Sky and the irony was they flashed another story student tuition headlines under me as I looked like a student instead of a 53 year old! The reporter and cameraman kept staring at me in disbelief wanting to know how I look so young?! Where do I begin? I kept it simple and said fat injections off camera.


----------



## Big-Dream

MissOrange said:


> I did an interview yesterday for Sky and the irony was they flashed another story student tuition headlines under me as I looked like a student instead of a 53 year old! The reporter and cameraman kept staring at me in disbelief wanting to know how I look so young?! Where do I begin? I kept it simple and said fat injections off camera.


MissOrange, I sent questions for you, if you have time please see it.
Thanks.


----------



## MissOrange

Big-Dream said:


> MissOrange, I sent questions for you, if you have time please see it.
> Thanks.


Hi @Big-Dream I have now replied.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is comparing eyelid only fat grafts with Dr Seo and vermillion lip lift with Dr Choi at mvp (top 2 photos early July 2016) to DAPRS full face fat graft including upper lids x 2 (July and Sept 2016) one month post back in Oct 2016 on tv (bottom right) with this week's MVP fat graft (Feb 2018) 16 months post on tv after bullhorn lip lift Jan 2017. As you can see the DA fat graft immediately reabsorbed within a month in my upper lids and lower face and left me looking even older with big disproportionate cheeks and more hollowing, and the mvp vermillion full lip lift with Choi at mvp disappeared in a few months and left me with a thinner upper lip. That said Dr Choi did remove my upper lip fillers which then improved my side profile. It had looked good in the top 2 photos due to upper lip swelling postop. MVP Dr Seo's full face fat graft is still going strong with no hollowing of the upper lids and Miss Mills bullhorn lip lift is still keeping my philtrum at a youthful length with an added bonus of a lifted cupid's bow and upper lip corners . In hindsight I should have stuck with eyelid fat graft at MVP with lid top ups as after DA's full face fat graft, I needed MVP to correct fmy entire face fat graft that DA left me with and now need to be underweight to minimise the excess DA fat still left in my cheeks. Choose wisely if you opt for full face fat graft as the worst scenario is picture bottom right, looking much older with fast, uneven reabsorption.

I still reel with shock when I realise the top 2 beautiful mvp photos were taken 3 months before the bottom right of my wrecked face by choosing the wrong clinic for full face fat graft. If I could turn back time I would never have gone to DA and never have tried full face fat graft. It is too high maintenance. I now have to watch my weight daily to avoid chipmunk cheeks and to drink +++ water to keep my fat graft inflated evenly. Back in early July 2016 with no full face fat graft I never watched my fluid intake or daily weight as it did not affect my face like it does now.

In my opinion, the best for face fat graft in Seoul are Dr Seo at mvp, Dr Hong at Fresh and Regen if you need corrective full face fat graft.

Now you see why I am hesitant of embarking on a breast fat transfer journey as daily maintenance for face fat graft is tough enough without coping with uneven fat graft reabsorption in the breasts. Let my story be a cautionary one of only embarking on full face fat graft after correcting being underweight or dehydrated and deciding you look very old so desperately need it. Ellen at mvp advised me against full face fat graft back in 2016 but I foolishly tried a cheap DA special.


----------



## miyumi

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is both a 3 month update and advice on losing weight fast! I forgot I used to drink actimel probiotic and this week have had 4 days of these mini drinks and wow with zero effort I weigh 97.8 lbs after struggling to get below 99 again. Yesterday as I was shopping a friend said I looked younger every time she saw me! I think the short upturned nose in combination with the liplift and fg has made my face permanently young. Here I am trying to find a birthday treat for my 52nd birthday. I think I look younger without false eyelashes and with pink lipstick and pink clothes. The jeans are from Heidi Klum's esmara collection at lidls.


Wow you look amazing!


----------



## MissOrange

It has been 5 months now since my breast implant en bloc explant and my decision to never try implants again after 20 years and 4 sets of recalled implants that have either ruptured or leaked over time. I am approaching 6 months when I would be allowed to try breast fat transfer. I took photos of my body looking for potential areas to lipo for fat transfer but it does not look hopeful so I shall try a new look of bras with slight padding and tighter tops to try to create the illusion of a fuller chest. I realised when I did have dd implants I wore loose fitting clothes to hide my size but now I need all the help I can get.

I am grateful that walking exercise, housework, drinking water not wine and trying a vegan, non dairy diet is giving me a fit body for a 53-year-old who avoids the gym, weights, jogging and pilates. I remember what a 90+ year old lady said was the secret to her longevity, health and fitness...cleaning her home every day. When a friend said she had a housekeeper, I thought wow but then realised I would rather do housework as exercise than weight training.


----------



## missy_sana

* *  DO NOT LEAVE *CHILDREN* UNACCOMPANIED * *


----------



## missy_sana

Cut the hair, not the bone.  

Cheapest and easiest way to a V-shape.  Bless her face!


----------



## MrsKing

MissOrange said:


> It has been 5 months now since my breast implant en bloc explant and my decision to never try implants again after 20 years and 4 sets of recalled implants that have either ruptured or leaked over time. I am approaching 6 months when I would be allowed to try breast fat transfer. I took photos of my body looking for potential areas to lipo for fat transfer but it does not look hopeful so I shall try a new look of bras with slight padding and tighter tops to try to create the illusion of a fuller chest. I realised when I did have dd implants I wore loose fitting clothes to hide my size but now I need all the help I can get.
> 
> I am grateful that walking exercise, housework, drinking water not wine and trying a vegan, non dairy diet is giving me a fit body for a 53-year-old who avoids the gym, weights, jogging and pilates. I remember what a 90+ year old lady said was the secret to her longevity, health and fitness...cleaning her home every day. When a friend said she had a housekeeper, I thought wow but then realised I would rather do housework as exercise than weight training.


Hi MissO,
Wow, just Wow, on how great you look at your age! Thanks for sharing and I for one have learned a lot.
On one of your post you had mentioned that GA was an overkill for FG.. in your experience, what would be the appropriate sedation method for FG? I am considering lid surgery and FG on lids and upper face (thanks to the info you provided) so wonder about the sedation method. Were you conscious when having FG at MVP? How long approximately does the FG on lids and forehead would generally last?

Keep looking fabulous,
MrsKing


----------



## MissOrange

MrsKing said:


> Hi MissO,
> Wow, just Wow, on how great you look at your age! Thanks for sharing and I for one have learned a lot.
> On one of your post you had mentioned that GA was an overkill for FG.. in your experience, what would be the appropriate sedation method for FG? I am considering lid surgery and FG on lids and upper face (thanks to the info you provided) so wonder about the sedation method. Were you conscious when having FG at MVP? How long approximately does the FG on lids and forehead would generally last?
> 
> Keep looking fabulous,
> MrsKing


Welcome @MrsKing! In the UK they do GA practically all the time but in Korea they rely on twilight IV sedation as there are fewer anaesthetists. At mvp clinic there is only one anaesthetist for 4 surgeons. GA requires constant monitoring vs IV not. For twilight iv sedation, a benzo and opiate are administered. Although lately there have been reports of what sounds like ketamine being used based on the hallucinogenic images while under.

For upper lid bleph ie double eyelid incision surgery as they call it in Korea, you are awake and sat up to check the lids mid op so the anaesthesia is a mix of local and twilight before you fall back to sleep. This part surprised me as when I had upper lid blephs in the uk, all were under GA. However once you know to expect this, it is fine as you feel pressure in the lids but no pain. I remember being awake as they cleaned my thighs with a cold solution on the op table for the fat they would need for my lids! Quite an experience to see different operating room methods Korea vs UK.

My one experience of waking up from GA after surgery at DAPRS clinic scared me to death! I could not breathe from the heavy gases they had given me intraop. I seriously thought I might die and my British husband would never find me.  Funny how their consent form actually says horrible anesthesia as a possible side effect and now I know why. This made me terrified of getting GA in korea and only prefer iv twilight sedation which is easily reversible. It was odd as the other times I had fat graft top up at DA they used iv twilight sedation.

It took 2 years of trial and error to finally figure out how to make fat graft last. Ironically it was when a Brit Chinese friend showed me his Fresh clinic fat graft postop instructions that read to gain 2-3 lbs after surgery that made me realise this is where I went wrong. But who wants to be 3 lbs fatter? Which is why I intentionally lost weight before my mvp full face fat graft in Feb 2018 and then gained weight postop for fat graft survival. This has worked. I just need to keep drinking water for my lower face as fat graft survival goes down with mouth movements and getting ulthera at the same time may have reduced fat graft survival in my lower face.

Yes fat graft is good for foreheads, temples and upper lids. But in cheeks it tends to build and stay, ie like chipmunk cheeks and over time may sag the cheeks from excess weight of fat.

Good luck with your journey! Less is more. Perhaps just get the upper lid bleph with lid fat graft only first.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on camera lenses. I couldn't understand why my face looks better in selfies than when filmed for tv interviews and told myself oh tv adds 10 lbs...Or why my face looked super wide in group photos when I stood at the end of the line up...Or why my face looked wide in the distance and slim up close on my phone camera. Now I know why!!!

Always stand in the centre of a group or behind the other person to look the best as the phone camera lens distorts at the sides! The person in the centre or behind will have the best or smallest face and the ones in front or at the side the widest distorted face!

Here are some of many faces you can find on google taken with different focal length cameras. Seems the smaller the focal length the narrower the face and the bigger the focal length the wider.

Now add to that how full face fat graft is affected by dehydration, hydration, even a mere 1 lb weight gain and you can see how confused I get as I keep looking different in selfies, pictures taken at a distance, selfie stick or tv camera lens. Sigh. I try now to rely on the simple bathroom mirror but even then it is like a funfair..some mirrors make my face slim vs others full! Or as my daughter puts it "mummy you are not as slim as in that mirror." This is when you need friends or family to see you in person to check whether you have a wide face or slim face, big cheeks or not, small nose or not etc. It may not be bdd but our phone camera lenses and mirrors!

Okay so I googled does tv make you fat? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/cameras-can-make-you-look-fat-2016-7
It seems the answer may be yes due to lack of depth on tv...ie a 2D face looks wider and flatter as it lacks the 3D depth of a real face so it spreads everything out.

Then I wanted to know what the most accurate focal length was for a camera lens to capture my real face...85-135 mm but the S9 camera focal length is 25-26 mm, front and rear cameras!!! Omg no wonder my face looks slimmer in selfies! Then how am I to send a true image to clinics for assessment if this phone only takes slimmer photos?

I need to find my old fashioned camera and see what focal length that lens is. This is so depressing.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on finding a true photo of what I look like. Here is one taken early Feb 2018 by a panasonic lumix camera with adjustable focal lens. I weighed 98 lbs in the photo. Looking at this photo makes me wonder why I then flew to Korea later that same month for full face fat graft when it looks full already. I blame my Samsung phone camera for distorting my face and for not learning in time that dehydration especially in hot climates can cause facial sagging and deflation.

This made me think of the girls who rely on their phone cameras to judge the size of their nose, faces, etc. and rely on these images to feel happy or sad or in one case suicidal. Please find an old fashioned camera instead of rely on a phone camera with a distorting fixed focal lens. Noses appear bigger or more narrow than true life with a phone camera lens up close. The apple iphone also has a fixed focal lens around 30 mms so not the ideal portrait focal lens of 85 mms.

As I had ulthera and full face fat graft in late February 2018, my face has changed since and I need to take more recent photos with the lumix but still addicted to using the S9 for convenience. An old camera means hooking it up to a usb port to upload photos to a computer to then email back to your phone. Sigh.


----------



## MissOrange

Has anyone tried a jade roller for facial lymphatic drainage to prevent lines? I ordered mine from eBay for £2.88 and found this YouTube video on how to use it. I saw a girl in a k drama use one and wondered what it was for.


----------



## Jessicala

MissOrange said:


> Has anyone tried a jade roller for facial lymphatic drainage to prevent lines? I ordered mine from eBay for £2.88 and found this YouTube video on how to use it. I saw a girl in a k drama use one and wondered what it was for.



Apparently the problem is that there are a log or fake ones and you need real jade roller to be efficient


----------



## Virgo3746!

MissOrange said:


> Has anyone tried a jade roller for facial lymphatic drainage to prevent lines? I ordered mine from eBay for £2.88 and found this YouTube video on how to use it. I saw a girl in a k drama use one and wondered what it was for.



Hello Miss Orange
I have been reading your 104 pages post and really impress by your beauty, honesty and knowledge in the aesthetic and plastic surgery field. Thank you for sharing your journey. I had used the gemstone roller (both jade and rose quart) it does seem to help a little, but result aren't long lasting (only few hours most). I am starting the NuFace Trinity and will let you know if it work. 
I plan to be in Seoul this mid July and plan to visit MVP, Regen, and Dream for DES, ptosis, possible zygoma reduciton and lower face lift. I am 48, born with wide cheeek and with menopause have seen some sagging in lower face. I had good experience with Regen via a fat graft in 2013 for my forehead that still hold well. Inmy opinion, the fat survival percentage depend on several factors: genetic, how fat harvest, areas of harvest, the size of fat harvest, areas of receiving, hydrattion, associate with stemcell or PRP, and post care.
I am familiar with Neurotoxin (Botox, Dysport, Xeomin), Dermal filler (Juvederm, Restylane), Radiesse, and Biostimulator Sculptra as well, should you like to know more about it, I would be happy to share as an NP doing aesthetic in US. If you have not try Sculptra, I would highly recommend research on it and try.
Thanks again for sharing your experience and knowledge


----------



## MissOrange

Virgo3746! said:


> Hello Miss Orange
> I have been reading your 104 pages post and really impress by your beauty, honesty and knowledge in the aesthetic and plastic surgery field. Thank you for sharing your journey. I had used the gemstone roller (both jade and rose quart) it does seem to help a little, but result aren't long lasting (only few hours most). I am starting the NuFace Trinity and will let you know if it work.
> I plan to be in Seoul this mid July and plan to visit MVP, Regen, and Dream for DES, ptosis, possible zygoma reduciton and lower face lift. I am 48, born with wide cheeek and with menopause have seen some sagging in lower face. I had good experience with Regen via a fat graft in 2013 for my forehead that still hold well. Inmy opinion, the fat survival percentage depend on several factors: genetic, how fat harvest, areas of harvest, the size of fat harvest, areas of receiving, hydrattion, associate with stemcell or PRP, and post care.
> I am familiar with Neurotoxin (Botox, Dysport, Xeomin), Dermal filler (Juvederm, Restylane), Radiesse, and Biostimulator Sculptra as well, should you like to know more about it, I would be happy to share as an NP doing aesthetic in US. If you have not try Sculptra, I would highly recommend research on it and try.
> Thanks again for sharing your experience and knowledge


Hi @Virgo3746!
Well done for reading all 104 pages! And good luck on your upcoming trip to Seoul next month! Say Hi to Dr Seo and Ellen for me and Dr Oh is impressive at Regen. I feel bad I can’t speak fluent Korean even after 2 years of Saturday classes. Dr Oh speaks fluent English! I am amazed. For facelift, pop into ASPS which is on the way to MVP from Apgujeong metro station.

This week I have been obsessing about my bat wings. Since I gave up adult ballet after 2 terms, I have been noticing my upper arm flab and loose skin underneath! I can’t understand how I still have fat and loose skin there when I weigh 97-98 lbs! Like how skinny do I have to get to get back the skinny upper arms I had in my early 20s? My right arm is 11 inches in circumference and my left is 10.5 inches but I can pinch an inch of fat under each upper arm. Is this part and parcel of being postmenopausal? Do women in their 50s eventually end up with batwings? 

So today’s topic is arm bat wings. I asked for quotes from Fresh clinic for their arm liposuction...ready for it....3.3 million + 10% vat!!! OMG. I then checked on RealSelf and Dr Bert Oelbrandt in Belgium charges £1250 for arm lipo. Wow, Europe is cheaper than Korea! I looked at arm lifts and omg, a long visible vertical scar running the length of the underside of the upper arm! Shriek! Sigh. Then I asked someone who had arm lipo in Korea but she does not recommend this as it leaves the arm lumpy. Has anyone had a good arm lipo experience and where?

Then I googled how to get rid of batwings and a lot of YouTube videos came up with....you got it arm exercises!!! Aargh I hate exercising. Still I can manage criss crossing scissoring my arms and moving my arms up and down like jumping jacks. Will it work? Have only been doing it for 2 days. Then I just flexed my arms and the loose under skin tightens up? I don’t understand why it hangs down then when I am not flexing my biceps?

What do I do? Exercises (hard work and free), try Dr O (he charges £40 for a consult in London and take a train to Belgium for £1250 arm lipo, the cheapest price I can find), try Fresh for breast FT with arm and flank fat (but they need 500-600 ccs of fat which I don’t have), try Dr Bednar in North Carolina for 360 lipo with breast FT for $9k as he is renowned for finding every bit of fat on a skinny person for breast augmentation?

What are ladies doing out there to reduce your batwings without going back to weekly adult ballet classes?

An extra tip today...I have now seen the b&a photo results of 3 ladies who paid breast oncology surgeon Mrs Claudia Harding MacKean £4144 in Chester, UK for breast implant en bloc removal with capsulectomy and a full breast lift and love their results and I agree, they got beautiful yet full lifts. I am so jealous as I paid almost double this with another surgeon and have a free revision booked next month to address the uneven areolas but this will not address the sagging with the donut lift I had.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Virgo3746!
> Well done for reading all 104 pages! And good luck on your upcoming trip to Seoul next month! Say Hi to Dr Seo and Ellen for me and Dr Oh is impressive at Regen. I feel bad I can’t speak fluent Korean even after 2 years of Saturday classes. Dr Oh speaks fluent English! I am amazed. For facelift, pop into ASPS which is on the way to MVP from Apgujeong metro station.
> 
> This week I have been obsessing about my bat wings. Since I gave up adult ballet after 2 terms, I have been noticing my upper arm flab and loose skin underneath! I can’t understand how I still have fat and loose skin there when I weigh 97-98 lbs! Like how skinny do I have to get to get back the skinny upper arms I had in my early 20s? My right arm is 11 inches in circumference and my left is 10.5 inches but I can pinch an inch of fat under each upper arm. Is this part and parcel of being postmenopausal? Do women in their 50s eventually end up with batwings?
> 
> So today’s topic is arm bat wings. I asked for quotes from Fresh clinic for their arm liposuction...ready for it....3.3 million + 10% vat!!! OMG. I then checked on RealSelf and Dr Bert Oelbrandt in Belgium charges £1250 for arm lipo. Wow, Europe is cheaper than Korea! I looked at arm lifts and omg, a long visible vertical scar running the length of the underside of the upper arm! Shriek! Sigh. Then I asked someone who had arm lipo in Korea but she does not recommend this as it leaves the arm lumpy. Has anyone had a good arm lipo experience and where?
> 
> Then I googled how to get rid of batwings and a lot of YouTube videos came up with....you got it arm exercises!!! Aargh I hate exercising. Still I can manage criss crossing scissoring my arms and moving my arms up and down like jumping jacks. Will it work? Have only been doing it for 2 days. Then I just flexed my arms and the loose under skin tightens up? I don’t understand why it hangs down then when I am not flexing my biceps?
> 
> What do I do? Exercises (hard work and free), try Dr O (he charges £40 for a consult in London and take a train to Belgium for £1250 arm lipo, the cheapest price I can find), try Fresh for breast FT with arm and flank fat (but they need 500-600 ccs of fat which I don’t have), try Dr Bednar in North Carolina for 360 lipo with breast FT for $9k as he is renowned for finding every bit of fat on a skinny person for breast augmentation?
> 
> What are ladies doing out there to reduce your batwings without going back to weekly adult ballet classes?
> 
> An extra tip today...I have now seen the b&a photo results of 3 ladies who paid breast oncology surgeon Mrs Claudia Harding MacKean £4144 in Chester, UK for breast implant en bloc removal with capsulectomy and a full breast lift and love their results and I agree, they got beautiful yet full lifts. I am so jealous as I paid almost double this with another surgeon and have a free revision booked next month to address the uneven areolas but this will not address the sagging with the donut lift I had.


When we grow older, we will have batwings due to skin sagging, loss of muscle mass and maybe reduction in bone density. For exercise, you can train your triceps with dumbbells. As for skin sagging, maybe you can try to apply those firming cream?


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> When we grow older, we will have batwings due to skin sagging, loss of muscle mass and maybe reduction in bone density. For exercise, you can train your triceps with dumbbells. As for skin sagging, maybe you can try to apply those firming cream?


Thanks @Fortunecat,

I have now received a quote from a surgeon in Hull, East Yorkshire for £2700 for arm lift under local! Gulp. I don’t think I can stomach lipo under local. Also it is the same price as Korea but more with travel costs. So the choice is easier. The best plastic surgeon for the most reasonable price is Dr Bert Oelbrandt in Belgium. I will book a consult to see him in London on July 7 for £40 and then pay £1250 for arm lipo under twilight sedation in Belgium! He has 4.9/5 google reviews and plenty of positive reviews on RealSelf. I looked into train prices from London to Antwerp area and it is about £100 return and the 5 star b&b by the clinic is €90 a night and I will need 2 nights. It will be an adventure for me exploring Belgium especially as I don’t speak Dutch! I shall keep this thread updated with my results after surgery. Any surgery in Korea has to take into account the £1k extra expense in flights and hotel costs. I have my ted stockings from my breast explant so I can use this as compression bandage for my upper arms postop!

As I have had traditional lipo and Vaser lipo to my tummy and thighs in 2002 and 2004 in the UK for £4K each time, I can highly recommend lipo as a surgical procedure to permanently remove fat cells but not the expensive price. Once the fat cells are sucked out of my arms, that leaves any fat weight gain to hopefully expand in my chest and bum! Lol. Well I hope. It is unpredictable where the body decides to expand fat cells elsewhere when lipo removes fat cells from one part of the body. It better not expand my face fat cells!! Well, maybe a little is okay, like a fat graft top up.

In the meantime it is 27 days to go before I travel back to Birmingham for areola symmetrisation under local. I simply do not have 500-600 ccs of fat (like 2 breast implants) on my body for £5k breast fat transfer in my opinion, so I shall rely on a silk M&S bra to give me a lift and fullness.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Fortunecat,
> 
> I have now received a quote from a surgeon in Hull, East Yorkshire for £2700 for arm lift under local! Gulp. I don’t think I can stomach lipo under local. Also it is the same price as Korea but more with travel costs. So the choice is easier. The best plastic surgeon for the most reasonable price is Dr Bert Oelbrandt in Belgium. I will book a consult to see him in London on July 7 for £40 and then pay £1250 for arm lipo under twilight sedation in Belgium! He has 4.9/5 google reviews and plenty of positive reviews on RealSelf. I looked into train prices from London to Antwerp area and it is about £100 return and the 5 star b&b by the clinic is €90 a night and I will need 2 nights. It will be an adventure for me exploring Belgium especially as I don’t speak Dutch! I shall keep this thread updated with my results after surgery. Any surgery in Korea has to take into account the £1k extra expense in flights and hotel costs. I have my ted stockings from my breast explant so I can use this as compression bandage for my upper arms postop!
> 
> As I have had traditional lipo and Vaser lipo to my tummy and thighs in 2002 and 2004 in the UK for £4K each time, I can highly recommend lipo as a surgical procedure to permanently remove fat cells but not the expensive price. Once the fat cells are sucked out of my arms, that leaves any fat weight gain to hopefully expand in my chest and bum! Lol. Well I hope. It is unpredictable where the body decides to expand fat cells elsewhere when lipo removes fat cells from one part of the body. It better not expand my face fat cells!! Well, maybe a little is okay, like a fat graft top up.
> 
> In the meantime it is 27 days to go before I travel back to Birmingham for areola symmetrisation under local. I simply do not have 500-600 ccs of fat (like 2 breast implants) on my body for £5k breast fat transfer in my opinion, so I shall rely on a silk M&S bra to give me a lift and fullness.


Sounds good! Excited for you!
Do keep us updated, especially on the arm lipo because i am interested in that too!


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## MysticMelody

Hi, I am not sure if it will be useful  for you, But I came across so called "celebrity Arm" lipo in Tampa Florida.  BTW: I am considering arm lipo in a near future as well. I am also on a slim side (5'2, 103 pounds) . AND I do have some "wings" (nothing too big or horrible, but it is there)  . I think it is  genetics. When I was super skinny (around 89 pounds : classical ballet  up to age 18). I did have some pocket of fat there . But my legs were envy of  all of my ballet classmates . Anyways, I was researching some local specialists (I am in (East Coast US)) and I came across Celebrity Arm Lipo. It looks like lipo with etching (art lipo , I guess). The price is very steep though around 9K per arm lipo for female Dr (Forgot her name). and little bit less expensive for Male Doctor (I think his name is DR SU or DR KU). PLUS, YOU have to be awake during surgery (can you believe it?)    So they can etch your arms per your input apparently. Some clients reported considerable discomfort during procedure. HMMMM... I do NOT tolerate pain well (How I gave birth to my daughter still beats me , lol)Anyways, I found it this interesting. (I read some realself posts on the subject).


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## EvaCandy

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Fortunecat,
> 
> I have now received a quote from a surgeon in Hull, East Yorkshire for £2700 for arm lift under local! Gulp. I don’t think I can stomach lipo under local. Also it is the same price as Korea but more with travel costs. So the choice is easier. The best plastic surgeon for the most reasonable price is Dr Bert Oelbrandt in Belgium. I will book a consult to see him in London on July 7 for £40 and then pay £1250 for arm lipo under twilight sedation in Belgium! He has 4.9/5 google reviews and plenty of positive reviews on RealSelf. I looked into train prices from London to Antwerp area and it is about £100 return and the 5 star b&b by the clinic is €90 a night and I will need 2 nights. It will be an adventure for me exploring Belgium especially as I don’t speak Dutch! I shall keep this thread updated with my results after surgery. Any surgery in Korea has to take into account the £1k extra expense in flights and hotel costs. I have my ted stockings from my breast explant so I can use this as compression bandage for my upper arms postop!
> 
> As I have had traditional lipo and Vaser lipo to my tummy and thighs in 2002 and 2004 in the UK for £4K each time, I can highly recommend lipo as a surgical procedure to permanently remove fat cells but not the expensive price. Once the fat cells are sucked out of my arms, that leaves any fat weight gain to hopefully expand in my chest and bum! Lol. Well I hope. It is unpredictable where the body decides to expand fat cells elsewhere when lipo removes fat cells from one part of the body. It better not expand my face fat cells!! Well, maybe a little is okay, like a fat graft top up.
> 
> In the meantime it is 27 days to go before I travel back to Birmingham for areola symmetrisation under local. I simply do not have 500-600 ccs of fat (like 2 breast implants) on my body for £5k breast fat transfer in my opinion, so I shall rely on a silk M&S bra to give me a lift and fullness.


MissOrange, don't you think that removing fat from your arm will make your skin sag more? The issue is not the fat but the skin laxity. The skin tightening procedures such as Profound RF don't work.either. There is a procedure called mini brachioplasty through which you can get some muscle tightening and pull the skin. The incisions are under the arm pit and in the natural creases under the arm. I heard it is not as effective as a regular brachioplasty but in your case considering the minimal laxity you have, it may be a good option.


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## MissOrange

EvaCandy said:


> MissOrange, don't you think that removing fat from your arm will make your skin sag more? The issue is not the fat but the skin laxity. The skin tightening procedures such as Profound RF don't work.either. There is a procedure called mini brachioplasty through which you can get some muscle tightening and pull the skin. The incisions are under the arm pit and in the natural creases under the arm. I heard it is not as effective as a regular brachioplasty but in your case considering the minimal laxity you have, it may be a good option.


Thank you @EvaCandy. You make a good point. If fat is used to expand and lift, ie bbl, breast FT, then removing fat, may make skin sag, like over aggressive facial lipo. I would be devastated if I had arm lipo that resulted in empty sagging skin under my arms. The surgeon did also quote a price for a mini arm lift at €2300. But when I see b&a photos on Instagram they show skinny arms after massive lipo and no sagging? Or is it because the ladies are 20 years younger and their skin has better collagen and elastin? I see Dr O in 6 days and shall ask to see his b&a photos of arm lipo and arm mini lift. My scars tend to pigment, so not really keen on a long underarm scar but then do not want to pay double to have lipo and then lift later. Sigh. The karriclinic has posted Instagram photos of b&a but they charge £2700 and it is done under local. Then I rang my first lipo surgeon Maurizio Viel who did my tummy and thighs back in 2004 with no tummy skin sagging but he now charges £5500 for upper arm lipo!!!


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## MissOrange

MysticMelody said:


> Hi, I am not sure if it will be useful  for you, But I came across so called "celebrity Arm" lipo in Tampa Florida.  BTW: I am considering arm lipo in a near future as well. I am also on a slim side (5'2, 103 pounds) . AND I do have some "wings" (nothing too big or horrible, but it is there)  . I think it is  genetics. When I was super skinny (around 89 pounds : classical ballet  up to age 18). I did have some pocket of fat there . But my legs were envy of  all of my ballet classmates . Anyways, I was researching some local specialists (I am in (East Coast US)) and I came across Celebrity Arm Lipo. It looks like lipo with etching (art lipo , I guess). The price is very steep though around 9K per arm lipo for female Dr (Forgot her name). and little bit less expensive for Male Doctor (I think his name is DR SU or DR KU). PLUS, YOU have to be awake during surgery (can you believe it?)    So they can etch your arms per your input apparently. Some clients reported considerable discomfort during procedure. HMMMM... I do NOT tolerate pain well (How I gave birth to my daughter still beats me , lol)Anyways, I found it this interesting. (I read some realself posts on the subject).


Hi @MysticMelody, wow you did classical ballet up to 18! Ah that means I need to get down to 89 lbs to have natural skinny upper arms. But that is impossible for me at age 53. Lol. I set my weight loss app to 95 lbs ideal weight and instead of losing weight, I ate cake and a doughnut yesterday with Bulgogi and noodles. Reverse psychology. I had skinny arms as a teen but noticed postmenopause and post tummy and thigh lipo, excess fat likes to expand in my upper arms and flanks. As a teen I was so proud of my skinny arms and hated my 21 inch around thunder thighs with no thigh gap. Yes I agree genetics also plays a part as if you can still have fat in your arms at 89 lbs, then it definitely is due to genetics. I can’t afford 9k per arm lipo. If I totalled all the money I have spent on plastic surgery and dental work over the past 20 years it is well over $100k and I still don’t look like a movie star! Lol. Half of the surgeries were a waste of money (no lasting improvement) or needed due to complications, like infection, rupture, etc. This is why research, choosing the best for less, less is more philosophy and taking one’s time are essential now.


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## MysticMelody

Miss Orange, you look absolutely fabulous (100K were a great investments in my book at least). and I can relate to so-called "THE CHANGE" .I am 49.  BTW: 89 pounds were miserable  . we eat alot ( well growing plus excessive body training)   but we trained so much (Even now, 21 years later I would wake up in a panic that I missed my morning classic , lol)  . Plus my joins are not in a best condition. Anyways, What I am trying to say,  everything is on eyes of the beholder, right? When I mentioned my arms to my friends they laughed.  However I do face (indeed face) other problems (2 namely). Marionette lines, excess fat  below corner of my mouth , and crepey skin on in front of my neck ( *platysma* is fine).  I am not ready for a full blown PS (my little one is only 8) so I am trying to research for any available options to fix it (non surgically) with min downtime. I am considering MINT thread lift for face, but what to do with crepey skin?  I do not have double chin, maybe little bit of fat under my chin (once again nothing big or horrible) . as mentioned I live in USA (east cost) went to couple of PS and 1 recommend neck lift and another fraxel (I am not ready for both options) . My friend recommended bio-revitaliation, but it is not available in USA (not FDA approved)- for that I have to travel to europe. so I am not sure what to do . BTW: I have "meaty" face (and I love it ). I am Asian as well  with PROMINENT Cheekbones (I can literally cut paper with my cheekbones and  I absolutely adore them ). I was stopped so many times on a street by many woman /men asking me about my cheekbones and asking me  the phone of my PS. Well my PS was mother nature.


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## MissOrange

Today’s post is a recap on breast implant illness and breast implant associated ALCL lymphoma. If you are in the UK, please tune in to Dispatches on Channel 4 and watch the expose on Allergan textured silicone breast implants and its link to lymphoma cancer. They interview a nurse who had her PIP implants exchanged to Allergan implants in 2012 just like I did, but sadly for her she was diagnosed with alcl lymphoma in August of 2018 and is in an advanced stage of this cancer. I found out about breast implant illness and textured silicone implants back in November 2018 and suddenly panicked trying to find a qualified surgeon who could not only remove the implant but also the scarred capsules. The NHS will only remove the implants if ruptured or associated with a grade 4 capsular contraction and some refuse to remove the capsules as it prolongs the operation in a rationed health care system. To remove implants can be 20 minutes but to remove with capsules which may be adhered to the ribs may take 2+ hours and needs a specialist. By December I managed to get a cancellation appointment slot with a private Birmingham explant specialist and again another cancellation op slot with him for January 2019 while my symptoms were escalating at an alarming rate (palpitations, rash on back behind the implant, oesophageal ulcer, eoe autoimmune inflammation of my oesophagus, anxiety, bleeding per rectum and alcohol intolerance, burning, painful dry blurry eyes resistant to steroid drops, etc.) and I knew I was racing against the clock to get them out before my multiplying t helper cells trying to get rid of the foreign body implants mutated to cancer cells. The NHS still had me on a rationed waiting list as my right implant had ruptured within the capsule. It was not until April of 2019 that the NHS rang me to say I was now at the top of the waiting list but because there was no guarantee they could take out the capsules too and no guarantee that it would be a consultant surgeon and not a trainee junior doctor, I am glad I paid to go privately. This was not the time to take risks with my life for free surgery. For some ladies the breast implant illness symptoms remain postop as their t helper cells have been exposed for too long and the damage may already be permanent, and some have residual silicone in their lymph nodes or lymphatics which surgeons may refuse to touch. They now say that even saline implants have been linked to alcl lymphoma as the implant casing is also made from textured silicone. I trusted the US FDA approval system for my Allergan implants and was shocked to see documentaries on how implants and devices may be fast tracked for approval without completing studies. My advice is not to have any breast implants. I tried 4 sets of breast implants over 20 years (3 approved by Europe’s regulatory body and the last set by the US FDA) and they all failed or were banned eventually. My advice is to try breast fat transfer if you have 500-600cc’s of spare fat or wear padded bras. I am doing the latter.

Here is the link to the Dispatches preview show on the breast implant expose.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is what to do after you have had plastic surgery rejuvenation. Can you still improve on the results and the answer is yes by lightening your hair to give your face an instant 'lift'. I went blonde in October of last year at age 52 but due to hard maintenance went dark again earlier this year only to notice how it seemed to dull my appearance. I then went back to blonde in May and will stay blonde and try to endure the demanding regime to avoid further hair damage. The hair stylist said something that struck a chord. He remarked that dark hair made me look too serious. It then got me thinking how does blonde hair make the face look less serious? Why and how does it make the face look better?

The other thing I have been experimenting with is no lower eyeliner and no coloured lenses. Remarkably more natural looks better? See for yourself.


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## MissOrange

Today's second tip is using sunscreen as a moisturiser or to layer over foundation for a better complexion. As we age our face goes from teen oily to dry and wrinkly postmenopause from decades of weather and sun exposure.

I noticed that each time I applied sunscreen my complexion glowed. Have a look and try this at home.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Sounds good! Excited for you!
> Do keep us updated, especially on the arm lipo because i am interested in that too!


Hi @Fortunecat I met Dr O at 2 Wimpole St yesterday on a Sunday and wow his waiting room was packed full of Brit ladies! He is tall and handsome with a sexy deep European accent...like a European version of a k drama actor lol. I was too shy to flash my boobs for a breast FT opinion so just asked for arm lipo. He said he would insert the cannula in my elbow and I was not a candidate for arm lift as I did not have loose skin. He said I could get arm lift at age 65. He is thinking ahead for me!

He offered me August 9 to which I said yes! He operates every Thursdays and Fridays. Today should get email confirmation and then I book the eurostar and he said pick to any station in belgium which includes Beveren. He even reminded me if I wanted to see his b+a photos! He was very proud of his lipo work as he should be. I saw one where he transferred flank fat into a butt and wow the lady looked so much younger with a lifted bum! It would have been less than €1k to add fat transfer. I paid £40 cash for the consult in person. He does skype too. I worked out with the exchange rate now £1350 for €1500 op cost for arm lipo under iv twilight sedation, £130 eurostar includes local trains, his wife's b+b for 2 nights €90/night, the grand total is £1704 which is still a lot cheaper than the karriclinic in hull for £2700 for arm lipo under local anaesthesia+£250 consult+trains to hull which cost more than to beveren when I checked prices for a consult so the grand total would have been £3,250. In London I was quoted £4.7k to £5.5k just for the op. And Fresh in korea quoted 3.3 million + 10% tax (which we get back) for arm lipo ie $3k + flights + hotels or a grand total of £3.7k. No wonder ladies travel abroad for elective plastic surgery and this will be my first ps op in Europe! Meanwhile it is 9 days left to my areola symmetrisation op in Birmingham under local.

Here are upclose photos of my middle-aged arm fat. He even said he would lipo around the arm to get the fat at tha back of the arm as well as underneath! Woohoo! In the last photo my upper arm looks bigger than my boob! Time for "fat be gone!"


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat I met Dr O at 2 Wimpole St yesterday on a Sunday and wow his waiting room was packed full of Brit ladies! He is tall and handsome with a sexy deep European accent...like a European version of a k drama actor lol. I was too shy to flash my boobs for a breast FT opinion so just asked for arm lipo. He said he would insert the cannula in my elbow and I was not a candidate for arm lift as I did not have loose skin. He said I could get arm lift at age 65. He is thinking ahead for me!
> 
> He offered me August 9 to which I said yes! He operates every Thursdays and Fridays. Today should get email confirmation and then I book the eurostar and he said pick to any station in belgium which includes Beveren. He even reminded me if I wanted to see his b+a photos! He was very proud of his lipo work as he should be. I saw one where he transferred flank fat into a butt and wow the lady looked so much younger with a lifted bum! It would have been less than €1k to add fat transfer. I paid £40 cash for the consult in person. He does skype too. I worked out with the exchange rate now £1350 for €1500 op cost for arm lipo under iv twilight sedation, £130 eurostar includes local trains, his wife's b+b for 2 nights €90/night, the grand total is £1704 which is still a lot cheaper than the karriclinic in hull for £2700 for arm lipo under local anaesthesia+£250 consult+trains to hull which cost more than to beveren when I checked prices for a consult so the grand total would have been £3,250. In London I was quoted £4.7k to £5.5k just for the op. And Fresh in korea quoted 3.3 million + 10% tax (which we get back) for arm lipo ie $3k + flights + hotels or a grand total of £3.7k. No wonder ladies travel abroad for elective plastic surgery and this will be my first ps op in Europe! Meanwhile it is 9 days left to my areola symmetrisation op in Birmingham under local.
> 
> Here are upclose photos of my middle-aged arm fat. He even said he would lipo around the arm to get the fat at tha back of the arm as well as underneath! Woohoo! In the last photo my upper arm looks bigger than my boob! Time for "fat be gone!"


Oh wow!
I am so looking forward to your arm lipo as I am also contemplating about it!


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## MissOrange

@Fortunecat I was told I would get an email on Monday confirming arm lipo for August 9 but have received nil. I sent reminder emails yesterday but no replies. So not sure if they are disorganised or what.

In the meantime I wanted to compare summer holiday bikini shots of me at 52 last year with implants vs me this summer without. I am still trying to get used to natural saggy boobs after 23 years relying on 4 sets of implants to look perky. Each set either ruptured then got banned from the market or got banned due to causing cancer. Sigh, the US  FDA and European medical device regulators got it wrong 4 times yet the consumer cannot sue the manufacturer but only the surgeon or clinic as long as they are still solvent. Imagine trying to sue the clinic if you travelled to Asia to get implants. Impossible. However if you paid by credit card in Asia then you may claim on the credit card when they rupture or get withdrawn as unsafe. So the cost of removals and exchanges every 3-10 years gets added to the initial cost of having implants to make it a hefty investment. I need to find a lady who has had breast fat transfer that has lasted a year as this procedure may cause uneven breasts from varying reabsorption, further sagging from the weight of the fat or calcified lumps. This means finding the best surgeon in the world for breast fat transfer if you decide to go down this path.


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## Fortunecat

@MissOrange Oh I see. Do keep update about the arm lipo again.
As for your boobs, what size are they now? If you are already a B cup onwards, I think it should be ok? But of course, possibly not ideal for you as yours used to be bigger. Maybe you can give yourself a little bit more time to "settle" and get used to your natural boobs before taking another plunge again? Possibly, you will find that they are not too bad afterall...


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Oh I see. Do keep update about the arm lipo again.
> As for your boobs, what size are they now? If you are already a B cup onwards, I think it should be ok? But of course, possibly not ideal for you as yours used to be bigger. Maybe you can give yourself a little bit more time to "settle" and get used to your natural boobs before taking another plunge again? Possibly, you will find that they are not too bad afterall...


Thanks @Fortunecat. Yes just like with zygoma reduction, I am frightened of any complications of breast FT, so am shelving it for now. My chest went from 34 inches to 31 inches post explant and droop. It looks better in a bra as this lifts them up a couple of inches. A female breast surgeon says a young lady's nipples are 17-19 cms from the collarbone. Sadly mine are further away after the periareolar donut lift but in a underwired padded bra (that manually lifts them) look young. Thank heavens for modern bras. I even tried the stick on rabbit breast lift covers but try peeling them off! Mega ouch as it stretched the skin. I failed the pencil test when I saw Mr Dario Rochira for a second opinion, ie can you hold a pencil under your breast. If you can then you are a candidate for breast lift. This means declined for revision breast lift. The lesson of the day is refuse periareolar lift as even my nipples are in a lower position post. It has to be full anchor lift or no lift. I never asked for a periareolar lift. I asked for a full anchor lift but awoke to a periareolar lift. I would say write no periareolar lift on your consent form as "mastopexy" on the surgical consent form is too vague. 

The downside of tummy lipo (2002 and 2004) is the extra skin. It shows when sitting as rolls but fortunately flattens out on standing. See the recent photo below. Although bear in mind it was taken after an all you can eat breakfast buffet! Had to cover the passerbyes as the topless man had bigger boobs than I did even in my padded bikini top!


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Fortunecat. Yes just like with zygoma reduction, I am frightened of any complications of breast FT, so am shelving it for now. My chest went from 34 inches to 31 inches post explant and droop. It looks better in a bra as this lifts them up a couple of inches. A female breast surgeon says a young lady's nipples are 17-19 cms from the collarbone. Sadly mine are further away after the periareolar donut lift but in a underwired padded bra (that manually lifts them) look young. Thank heavens for modern bras. I even tried the stick on rabbit breast lift covers but try peeling them off! Mega ouch as it stretched the skin. I failed the pencil test when I saw Mr Dario Rochira for a second opinion, ie can you hold a pencil under your breast. If you can then you are a candidate for breast lift. This means declined for revision breast lift. The lesson of the day is refuse periareolar lift as even my nipples are in a lower position post. It has to be full anchor lift or no lift. I never asked for a periareolar lift. I asked for a full anchor lift but awoke to a periareolar lift. I would say write no periareolar lift on your consent form as "mastopexy" on the surgical consent form is too vague.
> 
> The downside of tummy lipo (2002 and 2004) is the extra skin. It shows when sitting as rolls but fortunately flattens out on standing. See the recent photo below. Although bear in mind it was taken after an all you can eat breakfast buffet! Had to cover the passerbyes as the topless man had bigger boobs than I did even in my padded bikini top!


I think the rolls are due to sagging skin. As we age, we shrunk. So, we can't avoid having rolls when we sit down. I am sure that if you sit up straight, the rolls will not be that obvious. But at least, your stomach is flat when standing. So, I guess thats good enough. 
I am making an effort to cut down on sugars as sugars age us prematurely, not to mention sagging skin etc.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> I think the rolls are due to sagging skin. As we age, we shrunk. So, we can't avoid having rolls when we sit down. I am sure that if you sit up straight, the rolls will not be that obvious. But at least, your stomach is flat when standing. So, I guess thats good enough.
> I am making an effort to cut down on sugars as sugars age us prematurely, not to mention sagging skin etc.


Cutting down on sugars is good @Fortunecat. In my opinion, processed foods/ sugar may cause cancer.

I even debated tummy lift for the sagging skin but can’t stomach a long scar for my tummy or my arm. Or maybe I should only have surgery in Korea as the surgeons there are amazing at sewing and my scars from surgery in Korea are invisible vs in the U.K. seem to form raised red thick keloids.


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## LaniPani

Would a breast fat transfer last only a year? I have more than enough fat but wouldn’t want to go through the pain every year.


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## MissOrange

LaniPani said:


> Would a breast fat transfer last only a year? I have more than enough fat but wouldn’t want to go through the pain every year.


Breast fat transfer can last forever after 1-2 rounds in the best hands. In the US Dr Bednar is the best and has transferred even 700 ccs but he charges $11,500. In the UK David Floyd is the best but he transfers smaller amounts, ie no more than 200 ccs for around £4-5k for one round or over £6k for 2 rounds. Both have patients report good results at the year mark in fb groups on FT. I am still trying to find a top surgeon at breast FT for less. Fresh in korea quote 4-5 million won but I can't find patients to see their 1 year result. Still in research mode.


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## catelet

I think you look fab without the implants--so natural and pretty, and so trim as well! You look amazing.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Cutting down on sugars is good @Fortunecat. In my opinion, processed foods/ sugar may cause cancer.
> 
> I even debated tummy lift for the sagging skin but can’t stomach a long scar for my tummy or my arm. Or maybe I should only have surgery in Korea as the surgeons there are amazing at sewing and my scars from surgery in Korea are invisible vs in the U.K. seem to form raised red thick keloids.



I have been following a lady in instagram. Her id is "be.shrinking". She used to be fat. But with her determination, she managed to lose a lot of fats which later resulted in loose skin. She went to have a tummy tuck and her surgeon did a good job. She posted of her scars from the tummy tuck and it looked really well done. Her surgeon is in US as she is living in US though. I think she had her tummy tuck in October 2016.


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> I think you look fab without the implants--so natural and pretty, and so trim as well! You look amazing.


Thank you @catelet. I am tempted to leave well enough alone after my areola op on Wednesday. 

I have been thinking, mercury poisoning may cause mad hatters disease, copper iud poisoning may cause depression, tearfulness and hopelessness, titanium hip implant poisoning may cause dementia, and finally silicone textured breast implants may cause breast implant illness. Surely, the message is that we should not be putting any foreign body under our skin or inside our body! I am amazed there are over 1,800 ladies in the copper iud toxicity fb support group! I am having to deal with someone close who is getting her copper iud out tomorrow, as her mood swings, tearfulness, angry outbursts, etc. are really scary! Fingers crossed she has instant relief as the ladies report in the group.


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## MissOrange

Omg today I came across a youtube video of my favourite plastic surgeon in the world Dr Seo of MVP clinic transforming a guy's eyes and nose! What a treat to see him filmed in the operating room! I wish he did revision rhinos! Now I want that guy's nose! You can see why I am so grateful to Dr Seo for my eyes, lid fat graft, facial fat graft etc. The minute he says he is confident to do revision rhinos, I shall be on a plane to Korea to get a long nose! Tired of my short Barbie nose. lol


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## MissOrange

Today is post op day 3 of my revision breast op I had on Wednesday in Birmingham under local. It only took him 30 minutes to fix my asymmetric elliptical areolas. He upgraded the op to bilateral periareola mastopexy so the breasts look a bit more pert. That was the longest 6 months waiting for revision and the risk of any plastic surgery procedure. I had bleeding postop for 24 hours despite constant pressure and countless gauze changes, until an ice pack finally stopped the ooze. As I suffer from eczema/contact dermatitis to most if not all plasters/tape/dressings, I decided to go dressing free once the bleeding stopped which seems to be expediting skin healing, ie the natural way. The skin was closed with absorbable sutures so no need to get suture removal in a week. My areolas are now small and round. On Monday I share my 4 banned breast implant story on BBC2 to warn viewers that both the European and/or the US regulators got it wrong 4 times and to consider FT as an alternative to foreign body implants.

Arm lipo is next in 20 days time in Belgium. I have become a plastic surgery tourist! Amazingly there are online money transfer companies that give better foreign exchange rates than the high street or the best foreign exchange store. It was so easy to transfer €1500 euros to Dr O from my uk account without the hefty bank charges! I might do this again if I need more plastic surgery in Korea and transfer dollars instead of carry a wad of cash won!

I got a quote for breast fat transfer from mvp which matches Dr Oelbrandt's £2.4k breast fat transfer quote which is cheaper than Fresh, but the flight and hotel expenses are more to Korea than Europe and I have too little fat on my body to make a noticeable difference to breast FT taking into account up to 50% reabsorption. So again I have to tell myself no to breast FT.

I went through my old bikini photos reminiscing and missing the fullness and cleavage but not prepared to gain 10 lbs just to create fat for transfer. This means I shall stick to padded bikini tops and bras.


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## MissOrange

Today I met 3 guests at a luncheon, 2 with Parkinson’s and one with advanced breast cancer, all relatively young in their 50s or 60s. Another guest said 3 of her friends have been diagnosed with breast cancer and they all carried their mobile phones close to their chest, I presume in their bra or blouse pocket? How many of you do this? Do you experience headaches from overuse of your phone or earbuds? This may be explaining why women with no family history of breast cancer and no history of hormone use in contraception or HRT are getting breast cancer?! There also seems to be a link between vitamin C deficiency and Parkinson’s! I noticed I heal faster when I take high doses of vitamin C powder.

Here I am today looking much better with the S9 focal lens than in real life I think. Maybe that’s why some ladies are asking for plastic surgery to look like their phone selfies?


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## cythr

MissOrange said:


> Today I met 3 guests at a luncheon, 2 with Parkinson’s and one with advanced breast cancer, all relatively young in their 50s or 60s. Another guest said 3 of her friends have been diagnosed with breast cancer and they all carried their mobile phones close to their chest, I presume in their bra or blouse pocket? How many of you do this? Do you experience headaches from overuse of your phone or earbuds? This may be explaining why women with no family history of breast cancer and no history of hormone use in contraception or HRT are getting breast cancer?! There also seems to be a link between vitamin C deficiency and Parkinson’s! I noticed I heal faster when I take high doses of vitamin C powder.
> 
> Here I am today looking much better with the S9 focal lens than in real life I think. Maybe that’s why some ladies are asking for plastic surgery to look like their phone selfies?



The scarring from your lip lift seems to be basically invisible now. Is that also the case when you have no makeup on?


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## MissOrange

cythr said:


> The scarring from your lip lift seems to be basically invisible now. Is that also the case when you have no makeup on?


Yes @cythr, the kenalog steroid injection made a huge difference to the bullhorn liplift keloid which had been white, raised and thickened. The scar is now virtually invisible. The vermillion liplift scar is truly invisible which is a credit to Korean plastic surgeon's suturing skills.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on the ideal breast shape measurements. Yesterday on day 4 I compared my measurements to this chart from Yale med school. The distance between my sternal notch and nip is 19 cms! Yay, at least within reach of a lady in her 20s, ie 17-19 cms. The distance between the nip and midline sternum is 10 cms so this is also within the ideal range. But the distance between the nip and bottom of the breast is only 4.5 cms on one side and 5 cms on the other so not within the ideal range of 7-8 cms. This means I lack volume to fill out the breasts. However in a bra, everything looks better with a diagonal measurement of 17 cms etc. For us skinny ladies who refuse to gain weight for breast FT, the only 2 choices are Dr Bednar in N Carolina or Dr Burns in Texas who specialise in microfat transfer and find every ounce of fat even on a skinny lady but the cost is huge with flights, hotels, $11.5k surgery cost alone for one surgeon and $9.5k for the other and then flying back for a top up too so more like $15k total. Sigh.


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## MissOrange

9 days to go to try out arm lipo with Dr O in Belgium. Filled with trepidation after seeing my friend who had lipo in Korea on her arms and has hollows. Maybe it won’t reduce the upper arm? Maybe I need an arm lift but I cannot cope with a long scar the length of my upper arm. Sigh. I plan to wear arm compression bandages day and night postop. Meanwhile I looked up my idol Cindy Jackson who is now 62! I met her decades ago when I paid £200 for a one hour consult with her in Chelsea. Now she charges £1250 an hour to give advice on what you may need and who to see. I seem to be giving away that info for free on this site! I don’t mind as I call it good karma and pray I don’t end up a freak in my pursuit of perfection and eternal youth!

Here she is at age 60 in 2017 discussing patients going abroad for plastic surgery as it is cheaper. Makes sense as I just paid off the balance of a £1395 veneer replacement yesterday, yes for one tooth in London! I heard she stopped seeing my London dentist and went to Hungary for her private dentistry work. Sounds like I need to research Hungarian cosmetic dentists in future.

I am now 2 weeks post revision periareolar mastopexy and healing well except for a keloid scar on my right areola which I am trying to treat with hydrocortisone 1% cream and Kelo-cote which is softening the keloid but it is very slow progress. May need kenalog injection at my 6 week postop review I think.

An update on textured silicone implants, the US FDA finally agreed to withdraw this implant on July 24 and becomes the 38th country to ban this implant. Sadly I met a lady who had breast implant illness from smooth silicone breast implants! Wow, so smooth shells may not be safe either. My endoscopy result on July 24 showed all normal! My antral gastritis, oesophageal ulcer and eosinophilic oesophagitis on endoscopy a month prior to explant had all disappeared post explant! In my activist role I went on BBC radio and BBC2 Victoria Derbyshire show to warn ladies out there of breast implant illness from textured silicone implants. Must say I thoroughly enjoyed sitting in a BBC radio booth!

So if you are getting any foreign body implant, silicone, copper iud, cobalt hip replacement, mesh, etc., please pay attention to any sign of immune reaction, watch the Bleeding Edge on Netflix and consider explant for health reasons,


----------



## MissOrange

EvaCandy said:


> MissOrange, don't you think that removing fat from your arm will make your skin sag more? The issue is not the fat but the skin laxity. The skin tightening procedures such as Profound RF don't work.either. There is a procedure called mini brachioplasty through which you can get some muscle tightening and pull the skin. The incisions are under the arm pit and in the natural creases under the arm. I heard it is not as effective as a regular brachioplasty but in your case considering the minimal laxity you have, it may be a good option.


Hi @EvaCandy I researched and yes it is called t lift, a mini arm lift with a vertical scar in the armpit. My arm lipo is now in a week’s time. I saw a vertical scar in my friend’s armpit and with my dark pigmentation scars, I think I shall try arm lipo first. If the skin sags more, then I will research t lift ie mini brachioplasty but I think that will be £4-5k in the U.K or maybe even ask Dr O for mini lift at a later date. I am trying to avoid scars as for some reason my recent body scars are dark and pigmented vs my hernia scar from decades ago is invisible. Does ageing cause scars to pigment too?


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @EvaCandy I researched and yes it is called t lift, a mini arm lift with a vertical scar in the armpit. My arm lipo is now in a week’s time. I saw a vertical scar in my friend’s armpit and with my dark pigmentation scars, I think I shall try arm lipo first. If the skin sags more, then I will research t lift ie mini brachioplasty but I think that will be £4-5k in the U.K or maybe even ask Dr O for mini lift at a later date. I am trying to avoid scars as for some reason my recent body scars are dark and pigmented vs my hernia scar from decades ago is invisible. Does ageing cause scars to pigment too?



Oh my! I will be following your thread closely! I am contemplating arm lipo too!


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Oh my! I will be following your thread closely! I am contemplating arm lipo too!


Hi @Fortunecat, if Dr O does a fab job, I shall post the exact train schedule to his clinic and link to his wife’s hotel in a castle! 6 more days to go. Am slowly packing my bits and bobs, arnica pillules, paracetamol, tight long sleeve jersey top, slippers, etc. Will be staying at a hotel near Kings Cross so I can check in at 05:15 am for the first Eurostar train to Belgium leaving at 6:13 (2 hours) then local trains. And will pack some sandwiches so I can eat just before 7 am as I have to be nil by mouth for 6 hours before my twilight sedation op at 1 pm. He even does the cheapest facelifts! But one thing at a time. I have printed out an A4 of my expectations. lol


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## MissOrange

2 days to go until I am back under the knife, and I am reading up on Dr O’s reviews again. OMG he does smas facelifts for only £3900! That is the cheapest in the Western world! The cheapest price in the U.K. is £6.9k under local! I found this review on realself and can’t believe she is 62!!! I have found my facelift surgeon for when I am 60 too! Cheaper than the 13 million won or £10k facelift at asps. He does a combo of fat graft with his smas facelift! Interesting. Wow, he does temple lifts, corner lifts, lip lifts, breast lifts, etc. i.e. an all around plastic surgeon with amazing google reviews. And the good news is that he looks younger than I am so will be around for the next 30 years I hope!


----------



## MissOrange

Yay! It's done @Fortunecat! Arm lipo today and here are the results for only £1350 including this fab surgical compression garment and iv twilight sedation and a lovely belgian pastry with coca cola. No pain. Took one paracetamol just for the heck of it. One 62 yo lady flew from Manchester to Belgium for tummy tuck, stayed for 5 days and is thrilled. I took the 6:13 Eurostar this morning and got in 2 hours later, then took some local trains included in the Eurostar ticket to any Belgiam station to arrive at Beveren. Checked in and walked across the street to have my op at 1 pm. The anaesthetist was an experienced Czech and really good, like no nausea, no pain etc. The nurse was a former ICU nurse! So Dr O's team are top notch.

Fresh quoted 3.3 million + 10% vat. London £5k and Hull £2.7k under local. My research paid off.

Will update when I dare remove the surgical garment.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Yay! It's done @Fortunecat! Arm lipo today and here are the results for only £1350 including this fab surgical compression garment and iv twilight sedation and a lovely belgian pastry with coca cola. No pain. Took one paracetamol just for the heck of it. One 62 yo lady flew from Manchester to Belgium for tummy tuck, stayed for 5 days and is thrilled. I took the 6:13 Eurostar this morning and got in 2 hours later, then took some local trains included in the Eurostar ticket to any Belgiam station to arrive at Beveren. Checked in and walked across the street to have my op at 1 pm. The anaesthetist was an experienced Czech and really good, like no nausea, no pain etc. The nurse was a former ICU nurse! So Dr O's team are top notch.
> 
> Fresh quoted 3.3 million + 10% vat. London £5k and Hull £2.7k under local. My research paid off.
> 
> Will update when I dare remove the surgical garment.



@MissOrange I hope you are feeling okay! 
Ooo... sounds good to me!
Looking forward to more photos soon!!!


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange I hope you are feeling okay!
> Ooo... sounds good to me!
> Looking forward to more photos soon!!!


Hi @Fortunecat, okay I took off the surgical garment to shower and take photos. The right arm lipo is better than the left arm lipo. I can only pinch half an inch on the right but can still pinch an inch on the left. So the improvement on the left is not as noticeable as on the right. Here are the b&a comparison photos. I think lipo has its limits without removing skin. But I am not prepared to have another scar so will hold off on arm lift until my 60s. At least arm lipo has bought me some time until then.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat, okay I took off the surgical garment to shower and take photos. The right arm lipo is better than the left arm lipo. I can only pinch half an inch on the right but can still pinch an inch on the left. So the improvement on the left is not as noticeable as on the right. Here are the b&a comparison photos. I think lipo has its limits without removing skin. But I am not prepared to have another scar so will hold off on arm lift until my 60s. At least arm lipo has bought me some time until then.


Your arms are looking good after the lipo. I am sure that they will get smaller in another 1 month's time coz your arms should be swollen right now!


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## wishingstar

MissOrange said:


> Today I met 3 guests at a luncheon, 2 with Parkinson’s and one with advanced breast cancer, all relatively young in their 50s or 60s. Another guest said 3 of her friends have been diagnosed with breast cancer and they all carried their mobile phones close to their chest, I presume in their bra or blouse pocket? How many of you do this? Do you experience headaches from overuse of your phone or earbuds? This may be explaining why women with no family history of breast cancer and no history of hormone use in contraception or HRT are getting breast cancer?! There also seems to be a link between vitamin C deficiency and Parkinson’s! I noticed I heal faster when I take high doses of vitamin C powder.
> 
> Here I am today looking much better with the S9 focal lens than in real life I think. Maybe that’s why some ladies are asking for plastic surgery to look like their phone selfies?





Hi @MissOrange ! Wow, your skin is flawless! Where in seoul do you get skin lasers / dermatology treatments?


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## MissOrange

wishingstar said:


> Hi @MissOrange ! Wow, your skin is flawless! Where in seoul do you get skin lasers / dermatology treatments?


Hi @wishingstar, I don’t get any skin laser or derm treatments. My secret is I drink plenty of still water which hydrates the skin, moisturise with any face lotion and avoid the sun. I have stopped using Botox and dermal fillers since getting fat graft. I use shiseido skin foundation in shade I20 as it is the best for Asian yellow pigment skin and I love indoor evening lighting as it makes my yellow skin look flawless.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Your arms are looking good after the lipo. I am sure that they will get smaller in another 1 month's time coz your arms should be swollen right now!


I hope so @Fortunecat. It is day 3 and the worst for swelling and bruising despite applying arnica. I measured and my upper arms are 10 inches and 10.75 inches circumference, respectively. They were 9.75 and 10.75 inches before arm lipo. Today I feel I wasted £1720 but am trying to remain hopeful and tell myself it still has tumescent fluid or are still swollen and will continue to wear compression bandages/garment. I plan to keep wearing for 2 weeks, night and day and remeasure at pod 7 and pod 14. At this point, I would only recommend arm lift and not rely just on arm lipo. I really need to look at working on my triceps to try to lift my underarms. I tried the skin elasticity test, ie pinch your skin and see if it bounces back to normal quickly. This is promising and hopefully I will see arm lipo improvements eventually.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> I hope so @Fortunecat. It is day 3 and the worst for swelling and bruising despite applying arnica. I measured and my upper arms are 10 inches and 10.75 inches circumference, respectively. They were 9.75 and 10.75 inches before arm lipo. Today I feel I wasted £1720 but am trying to remain hopeful and tell myself it still has tumescent fluid or are still swollen and will continue to wear compression bandages/garment. I plan to keep wearing for 2 weeks, night and day and remeasure at pod 7 and pod 14. At this point, I would only recommend arm lift and not rely just on arm lipo. I really need to look at working on my triceps to try to lift my underarms. I tried the skin elasticity test, ie pinch your skin and see if it bounces back to normal quickly. This is promising and hopefully I will see arm lipo improvements eventually.


@MissOrange, Don't despair! I am sure they will get better. We have been through this before. Well... if your arms din become slimmer, then at least, we know that arm lipo doesn't work for you. Its better to know than to have any regrets, right?
Cheer up! We know it takes at least a month to reach its best results!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange, Don't despair! I am sure they will get better. We have been through this before. Well... if your arms din become slimmer, then at least, we know that arm lipo doesn't work for you. Its better to know than to have any regrets, right?
> Cheer up! We know it takes at least a month to reach its best results!


Thanks @Fortunecat, I have joined a fb group of arm lifts and shocked to read arm lift revisions seem common and the scars are so long! I think if a lady has huge batwings then get an arm lift. If not, then do exercise. I should have spent the £1720 on a personal trainer or 283 (4 years of weekly) £6 karate classes! Watching the 50 episodes of the Legend of Bruce Lee. Seems kung fu exercises the arm muscles constantly! I worry that my skin has now been stretched from lipo. 

As an aside, I got my carotid scan result and it showed I have low risk of cv disease, ie stroke! Yay I went from high risk in 2016 with a lipoprotein A of 312 to low risk in 2019 with a record high cholesterol of 8.6 (double normal) and lower lipoprotein A of 202 on niacin 100 mg and coenzymeQ10 100 mg. This suggests that I can go back to eating bulgogi and fatty foods as it may be lipoprotein A that is linked to atherosclerosis and not cholesterol. 2 of my daughters have normal cholesterol but high lipoprotein A and have high cv risk on both carotids! The question then is, as niacin ie vitamin B3 reduces lipoprotein A then could atherosclerosis simply be due to vitamin B3 deficiency? We also get niacin in coffee, mushrooms, wholewheat, etc.

I had another blood test yesterday. Next week I find out if a vegan non dairy diet with plant sterol 800 mg lowered my cholesterol. But hoping my lpa continued to go further down on CoQ10 and niacin. I may be tempted to ignore my cholesterol as the total cholesterol to hdl ratio is normal despite the extremely high total cholesterol. Dr Aseem Malhotra, an esteemed cardiologist suggests we eat saturated fats as cholesterol is needed for the brain and body!

I now am more likely to beat familial stroke in my 70s and live to 90 which means more plastic surgery in the future to look 20-30 at age 90! lol. I am going to outlive many male plastic surgeons! lol


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## maybebaby1980

Miss orange, I just want to say thank you so much for recommending MVP clinic! I am in korea for two jaw and v line and i did my eyes with them. I wasn't happy so dr seo is redoing it.

Miss ellen and miss victoria there have treated me so well and I wouldn't have survived my twoo jaw journey without them.

I went too MVP for eyes, iv drips and skin treatments.


----------



## MissOrange

maybebaby1980 said:


> Miss orange, I just want to say thank you so much for recommending MVP clinic! I am in korea for two jaw and v line and i did my eyes with them. I wasn't happy so dr seo is redoing it.
> 
> Miss ellen and miss victoria there have treated me so well and I wouldn't have survived my twoo jaw journey without them.
> 
> I went too MVP for eyes, iv drips and skin treatments.


You’re welcome @maybebaby1980! Your avatar photo looks beautiful! It doesn’t look like you need 2 Jaw surgery? You are very brave to do 2 jaw and v line! Which clinic did you pick for this?

I have been researching arm circumferences to determine what mine should be. Here are the 2 charts I have found and it seems my right arm mid arm circumference of 26.6 cms puts me in the almost overweight category of a bmi of 25 and the 90th percentile of American ladies my age, yet my actual bmi is only 18.3! So I definitely needed arm lift and not just arm lipo.


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## MissOrange

Here are my upper arms still the same size a week pre and post arm lipo at a bmi of 18.3 or 97 lbs..11 inches at the biggest circ and 10.5 inches mid arm circ. It seems my arms are those befitting a 50+ year old according to mid arm circumference. Sigh. Need to make them 9 inches like a 20 year old. I am told by my surgeon to wait 3 months for the final result and continue to wear arm compression sleeves. In the meantime I have booked a second opinion consult with Mr Paul Tulley of Cadogan clinic for September 5 to consider arm lift. His price is £4750 vs William Townley, another London surgeon charges £5k so this is the ballpark price in London. The price in Bristol is £4011 but it would mean travelling by train for consults and op.

I found some good arm lift results on Instagram and real self. At this point I would say, don’t bother with arm lipo, just get arm lift. Now it is a matter of finding a surgeon who can suture finely to minimise the long scar.


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## Fortunecat

@MissOrange Give yourself some time before deciding that arm lipo is a waste of time and money. As the saying goes, "If you never try, you will never know!".
I went to Renewme clinic and 365mc for mini liposuction consultation last year. The doctor at Renewme said I do not need arm lipo whereas the nurse clinician at 365mc told me that I only need 1 syringe (50cc) for each arm.
I think for my case, possibly its arm sagging due to age?
Anyways, I am still contemplating about it.
Oh yes. The long arm scar really deters me for arm lift in the event if I do need one in the future.


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## Fortunecat

I was in an aesthetic clinic today and read that Exilis Ultra 360 can be used to tighten and firm up the arms area. Maybe you can consider doing that in the future.


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## MissOrange

Today is pod 10 and I have been wearing kinesiology sports taping instead of the itchy compression garment. Imo this sports taping is so much better for pain relief, comfort, smoothness of lipo site, just the right compression and sleepability.

I have put together a collage comparing my Dr O arm lipo to another 53 yo pt of Dr O who had arm lift! I can see the improvement with arm lipo. My mid arm circ is 10.5 inches on the right and 10 inches on the left. For my bmi less than 18.5 it should be 9 inches on both sides. In 3 months if my arms are not reducing more then I shall pay for a mini arm lift with Dr O.


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## shaunical

chardonnaylane said:


> Have you any further info on VIP? I'm also in the hunt for an SMAS facelift pro in Korea





MissOrange said:


> Hi @J't'aime funny you should mention Aishwarya Rai as she is one of my beauty idols. I have seen all her movies. There was controversy as to whether her eyes really are blue green or brown and in earlier photos and a very early film her eyes are.....naturally brown. Between you and me, I think she wears coloured contacts now. I envy her nose! In fact I was staring at all the lovely big noses in the Indian ladies I saw on holiday. I suffer from the grass is greener syndrome as I have had a tiny nose all my life and think big noses like on Princess Diana, Aishwarya, Jun Ji Hyun make them even more beautiful.
> 
> Ugh when you mentioned bone density loss I thought, maybe I should not have got my chin shaved in 2016 as I need all the bone I can keep in my face to withstand osteoporosis in my 60s and beyond! I am facing up to 30% bone loss in very old age! I am fortunate to have wide zygoma bones which as long as I don't reduce, will hold up my face for now. lol. The tip of my nose being upturned gives the illusion of youth. Tip rhinoplasty is a good operation. And of course bullhorn liplift for a sagging philtrum reduces the philtrum back to 11-13 mms and everts the lip so no more restylane is required.
> 
> It was too funny when I was at Mvp last month, the manager suggested I stop putting fillers in my lips as my lips were so big! lol. I have not had restylane since 2016 as the liplift everted the upper lip! In Korea, I don't think they consider big lips as attractive as they do in the West.


Hi Ms Orange, I like your eyes very much.  I need to do my eye lid due to ageing process. Could you give me me contact details of your doctor ?


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## MissOrange

shaunical said:


> Hi Ms Orange, I like your eyes very much.  I need to do my eye lid due to ageing process. Could you give me me contact details of your doctor ?


Hi @shaunical, my eyes were done by Dr Seo at the Most Valuable Plastic Surgery clinic in Apgujeong, Seoul, www.mvpps.com. I had revision upper lid blepharoplasty with upper lid fat graft. Make sure to ask for excision of loose eyelid skin.


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## MissOrange

Pod 11 and I am still trying to decide whether I need a small elliptical arm lift. On one arm, I can see a marked improvement (yellow t shirt is today vs black vest before) but on the other arm very little difference.


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## shaunical

MissOrange said:


> Hi @shaunical, my eyes were done by Dr Seo at the Most Valuable Plastic Surgery clinic in Apgujeong, Seoul, www.mvpps.com. I had revision upper lid blepharoplasty with upper lid fat graft. Make sure to ask for excision of loose eyelid skin.


Hi Ms Orange, thanks for yr prompt reply. Don't mind, can I hv yr Kakao ID ?


----------



## MissOrange

shaunical said:


> Hi Ms Orange, thanks for yr prompt reply. Don't mind, can I hv yr Kakao ID ?


Hi @shaunical, you can use this site’s private message if you want to chat with me privately. I don’t work for MVP so cannot help you personally on kakao. They have their own consultants you can kakao with any questions.


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## shaunical

MissOrange said:


> Hi @shaunical, you can use this site’s private message if you want to chat with me privately. I don’t work for MVP so cannot help you personally on kakao. They have their own consultants you can kakao with any questions.


Hi Miss Orange, blur me. How do I use the "private" message ? I am unable to find the private tab.  Appreciate that you could guide me.


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## MissOrange

shaunical said:


> Hi Miss Orange, blur me. How do I use the "private" message ? I am unable to find the private tab.  Appreciate that you could guide me.


Hi @shaunical, have replied to your pm.


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## MissOrange

Today's post revisits zygoma reduction. When a friend said her face width was only 12.7 cms guess who started obsessing again about her 14 cm wide face! Thus far the korean clinics to look at for bone contouring are regen, EU dental, the face dental and now add Dr Lee at Girin to the list. I have been looking at their instagram videos and they seem to focus a lot on zygoma reduction. I figure videos are less likely to be photoshopped than photos but then maybe there is software for videos too?


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Today's post revisits zygoma reduction. When a friend said her face width was only 12.7 cms guess who started obsessing again about her 14 cm wide face! Thus far the korean clinics to look at for bone contouring are regen, EU dental, the face dental and now add Dr Lee at Girin to the list. I have been looking at their instagram videos and they seem to focus a lot on zygoma reduction. I figure videos are less likely to be photoshopped than photos but then maybe there is software for videos too?


Lol.
@MissOrange Pls give up on thoughts of having zygoma reduction. We already knew more cons than pros to having this surgery done. 
You will definitely need a face lift after zygoma reduction.


----------



## summer victoria

MissOrange said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.
> 
> 1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!
> 
> 2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.
> 
> 3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.
> 
> 4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.
> 
> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.
> 
> Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!


You look great! Mind sharing the doctor? I am in my early 50 and desperately looking for face and eye lip lift . Thanks in advance


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## bottledpoe

Hi @MissOrange, I'm a fan of how open you are with your procedures and research, so I made an account just to let you know that there are definitely filters for videos nowadays. Plus, they're shockingly good. Check this video out on Reddit to see what I mean. I wouldn't trust a video unless if you can see pores!


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## MissOrange

bottledpoe said:


> Hi @MissOrange, I'm a fan of how open you are with your procedures and research, so I made an account just to let you know that there are definitely filters for videos nowadays. Plus, they're shockingly good. Check this video out on Reddit to see what I mean. I wouldn't trust a video unless if you can see pores!


Thanks @bottledpoe! Sigh. It would be so much better if the after photo or video were without makeup to compare like with like. It is so hard to do research. I think the best scenario would be to meet a person f2f to see their results. But that is hard to do from another country.

I have been toing and froing re zygoma reduction. View would be 32 million (as my chin reduction makes it a 2 million extra for revision)! And all their facial contouring procedures recommend facelift at the same time or 5-6 months later!

Girin is cheapest as it is just 2 surgeons, one who does eyes and the other bone contouring and I have seen many b+a photos but do I want to budget for a 11-12 mill facelift too just in case? So for now hairstyling reduces the width of my face 1 cm on each side.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on arm liposuction. It seems it can be done to bring out muscle definition! The best result I have found is Dr Thomas Su in USA but the price starts from $8k and that is under local anaesthesia with instant results and no need to wait months to deswell! He even has ladies fly in from Australia! I guess my arm lipo in Belgium for £1350 (€1500) with iv sedation was the best deal. My right arm is 10.5 inches and my left arm 9.75 inches at 2.5 weeks postop. Preop my right arm was 10.75 inches and my left arm was 9.75 inches which is why I can only see an improvement in my right upper arm at this point. I bought a seca baby head circumference tape which works perfectly to measure your mid arm circumference without fiddling with normal tape measures! September 5 I get a second opinion from Cadogan Clinic as to whether I need mini arm lift to get 9 inch arms which would match my bmi of 18.3.


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## bottledpoe

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @bottledpoe! Sigh. It would be so much better if the after photo or video were without makeup to compare like with like. It is so hard to do research. I think the best scenario would be to meet a person f2f to see their results. But that is hard to do from another country.
> 
> I have been toing and froing re zygoma reduction. View would be 32 million (as my chin reduction makes it a 2 million extra for revision)! And all their facial contouring procedures recommend facelift at the same time or 5-6 months later!
> 
> Girin is cheapest as it is just 2 surgeons, one who does eyes and the other bone contouring and I have seen many b+a photos but do I want to budget for a 11-12 mill facelift too just in case? So for now hairstyling reduces the width of my face 1 cm on each side.



I feel like I can't even rely on RealSelf reviews anymore because you can 100% tell that they're using filters in the after shots. Some surgeons have before and afters with no makeup, taken with a DSLR so you can see actual skin texture, and in the same lighting for both pics (thank goodness). BUT, then I've noticed that some change the focal length of the lens to make the after shot look more flattering. Here's a link to a photography website to show the importance of focal length. I was looking at a lipo before/after and noticed that the width between the patient's eyes was drastically different between the before/after. There's no way that sucking out fat would dramatically change the bone structure for your eye sockets like that, lol.

I'm really interested to see how your zygoma result will look. One major thing keeping me from wanting the procedure done is the sagging issue that people talk about. I read a horror story on RealSelf about a young woman (like 20s or 30s) getting it done, and then needing a skin tightening procedure and eventually a face lift to correct the sag. I hope that doesn't happen to you!


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## Jamdonuts

Dear miss O, I think your extraordinary after reading your whole 109 pages. Thank you so much for your sense of humour and informative post. Can I pm you for further ps advice.


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## MissOrange

Jamdonuts said:


> Dear miss O, I think your extraordinary after reading your whole 109 pages. Thank you so much for your sense of humour and informative post. Can I pm you for further ps advice.


Hi @Jamdonuts, yes you can pm me.


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## MissOrange

bottledpoe said:


> I feel like I can't even rely on RealSelf reviews anymore because you can 100% tell that they're using filters in the after shots. Some surgeons have before and afters with no makeup, taken with a DSLR so you can see actual skin texture, and in the same lighting for both pics (thank goodness). BUT, then I've noticed that some change the focal length of the lens to make the after shot look more flattering. Here's a link to a photography website to show the importance of focal length. I was looking at a lipo before/after and noticed that the width between the patient's eyes was drastically different between the before/after. There's no way that sucking out fat would dramatically change the bone structure for your eye sockets like that, lol.
> 
> I'm really interested to see how your zygoma result will look. One major thing keeping me from wanting the procedure done is the sagging issue that people talk about. I read a horror story on RealSelf about a young woman (like 20s or 30s) getting it done, and then needing a skin tightening procedure and eventually a face lift to correct the sag. I hope that doesn't happen to you!


Hi @bottledpoe,

I agree the focal length of a camera can suddenly make a patient’s after face look a lot slimmer which makes me worry about whether the person really looks like that post zygoma reduction. It took ages before I was brave enough to try blonde hair in my 50s. At the moment trying to research which L’Oréal dye to get for orange brassiness whenever I do my roots with 9.0. I end up getting it fixed professionally and the hair stylist said I needed to try ash to offset the orange but there are again so many choices for ash blonde hair dye. Looks like L’Oréal preference lightest ash blonde may work according to YouTube bloggers. L'Oréal Purple shampoo and conditioner do not work so I have binned them. YouTube mentions Clairol purple shampoo for brassiness working.

I may wait until I am 60 to try zygoma reduction as then I can get a facelift too. My OH says facial bones shrink with age and so I won’t need any facial bone surgery? Lol. I am not looking forward to osteoporosis at age 60! As I have already spent £10k this year on plastic surgery, I will put any additional procedures on hold for now. Although now I am researching inner thigh lifts as I can pinch 2 inches of skin probably from all the fat grafts harvested from my thighs.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @bottledpoe,
> 
> I agree the focal length of a camera can suddenly make a patient’s after face look a lot slimmer which makes me worry about whether the person really looks like that post zygoma reduction. It took ages before I was brave enough to try blonde hair in my 50s. At the moment trying to research which L’Oréal dye to get for orange brassiness whenever I do my roots with 9.0. I end up getting it fixed professionally and the hair stylist said I needed to try ash to offset the orange but there are again so many choices for ash blonde hair dye. Looks like L’Oréal preference lightest ash blonde may work according to YouTube bloggers. L'Oréal Purple shampoo and conditioner do not work so I have binned them. YouTube mentions Clairol purple shampoo for brassiness working.
> 
> I may wait until I am 60 to try zygoma reduction as then I can get a facelift too. My OH says facial bones shrink with age and so I won’t need any facial bone surgery? Lol. I am not looking forward to osteoporosis at age 60! As I have already spent £10k this year on plastic surgery, I will put any additional procedures on hold for now. Although now I am researching inner thigh lifts as I can pinch 2 inches of skin probably from all the fat grafts harvested from my thighs.



I think a face lift is more important than zygoma reduction.
I am thinking of going to MVP to consult Dr Seo for my temporal lift (sub brow lift). @MissOrange, what do you think? Besides Dr Seo,  do you have other doctors to recommend? Many thanks in advance!


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> I think a face lift is more important than zygoma reduction.
> I am thinking of going to MVP to consult Dr Seo for my temporal lift (sub brow lift). @MissOrange, what do you think? Besides Dr Seo,  do you have other doctors to recommend? Many thanks in advance!


Hi @Fortunecat, I haven't researched sub brow lift. I guess a surgeon good at eyes is best and make sure they excise skin!

I have been looking at girin on instagram and their eye doc results also look good. But then again it is a model on ig so better to find an ordinary, real person to see their eyes.

I am thinking 5-8 million won for zygoma reduction and 6-11 million won for facelift, means a total of 11-19 million won!! My face needs to look really bad for me to pay that much! Which means yet again I must wait until I am 60 as my face is ok with hair camouflage, false lashes and full contouring makeup. lol.


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## MissOrange

@bottledpoe as I can't trust the focal lens on my S9 I decided to check my home cam of me in July vs me tonight in August in the same pose and wow it showed that at 2.5 weeks post arm lipo it did work after all! And my weight has been the same both months. My right saggy upper arm is gone! And my left arm may be a bit thinner. Can't tell with hair in the way. I have cancelled the Cadogan clinic consult as I wouldn't have been able to afford arm lift at £4750 anyway and now I don't need it. Phew. Got away with no long scars.

I now count myself lucky I did not get an anchor breast lift but a periareolar one instead as my underbreast scars are still pigmented a purplish-red colour at 7 months, fortunately hidden under my breasts when standing up but when lying down, the scars are clearly visible. With a full anchor lift I would have had obvious vertical pigmented scars on my breasts! Maybe asian skin scars tend to pigment?


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on how some people look better in selfies and some look worse. If you have a short nose and wide face like I do, then the focal length of the S9 selfie (beauty mode turned off) makes my nose bigger and my face narrower. This suggests that at some point I may need zygoma reduction and nose augmentation to look like my selfie in real life?! The problem is I can't send a true photo to plastic surgery kakao consultants, as they see the S9 selfie images on my kakao! If I looked like my selfie, I wouldn't touch my face.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on the dangers of relying on selfies to decide if plastic surgery is necessary. Here is a classic example. I love JLH yet her camera phone lens makes her face even narrower and nose bigger than it is in real life! I wonder how many ladies thought they needed rhino because they saw a big nose in selfies? And then became obsessed with thinking their nose was too big? Or got upset after rhino because the selfie image was then of a larger nose? It is so important to find an accurate mirror or take measurements as sadly these phones do not have the correct focal lens for portraits.


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## MissOrange

Today's second post is a 3 week update on Dr O's affordable €1500 arm lipo under iv sedation. I can now see the improvement on the left arm too (top pics)! Wow! I have stopped wearing arm compression garments and can now wear strapless or sleeveless tops or dresses without fear of a bad arm photo! No more underweight bmi with overweight looking upper arms! Now my upper arms match my body. So for those on a budget, arm lipo in Belgium is the most affordable place in the Western world and you can practice your school French or German for fun. Beats £2700 in Hull, UK and $8000 in USA (both under local) and £4-5k in London (under GA).

I have measured my thighs and they are 18 inches circumference which matches a bmi of 18.3-18.5. Phew. No thigh lift needed. I feel like an old car needing body work and tune ups on a regular basis as the decades go by.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Today's second post is a 3 week update on Dr O's affordable €1500 arm lipo under iv sedation. I can now see the improvement on the left arm too (top pics)! Wow! I have stopped wearing arm compression garments and can now wear strapless or sleeveless tops or dresses without fear of a bad arm photo! No more underweight bmi with overweight looking upper arms! Now my upper arms match my body. So for those on a budget, arm lipo in Belgium is the most affordable place in the Western world and you can practice your school French or German for fun. Beats £2700 in Hull, UK and $8000 in USA (both under local) and £4-5k in London (under GA).
> 
> I have measured my thighs and they are 18 inches circumference which matches a bmi of 18.3-18.5. Phew. No thigh lift needed. I feel like an old car needing body work and tune ups on a regular basis as the decades go by.


Yay! 
@MissOrange Happy for you!!! You can stop thinking of arm lift now.


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## MissOrange

Today is a recap of how I improved my side profile over a period of 2 years. I had chin reduction and rib rhinoplasty first (right photo was post). When you have rhino and you get a complication, try to get it fixed for free or at a reduced price with your primary surgeon as revision with someone else will cost a fortune unless you have lost complete trust in the original surgeon. On the right is my nose post rib rhinoplasty and abscess which led to collapse of my nose tip rib cartilage. I persisted and the surgeon kindly fixed my nose within weeks (6 weeks postop) rather than have me wait a year as I was so depressed and anxious and could not face waiting a year and insisted the nose abscess be explored and properly cleaned out in theatre. The nose on the left is 2 years after he took me back to theatre, repositioned the collapsed rib cartilage and gave me the beautiful nose I had originally paid for, for the price of just the private hospital fee of £1.9k to repair.

Dr Seo at MVP performed revision eyelid surgery to excise the hooded skin with lid fat graft to fill the hollow and prevent an appearance of eye proptosis, and later performed full face fat graft (final photo is on the left). The upper lip was full of scar tissue and calcified filler lumps after decades of lip fillers which led to protrusion (see right photo). ID hospital years earlier had suggested 2 jaw surgery which was not necessary after chin reduction and lip filler/scar tissue removal. Dr Choi at MVP excised the upper lip filler with a vermillion lip lift. I then got a bullhorn lip lift to address the long philtrum and this finally perfected my side profile (left photo). I lightened my hair all the way to blonde professionally for £80 for a full head of highlights which softened my face. And now I do not wear any eye makeup as I noticed dark eye shadow does not work anymore. If you have over-plucked or non existent eyebrows then eyebrow tattoo with a soft brown colour helps balance the face too as we lose even eyebrow hair with age. I fill in the loss of vermillion colour on the sides of my upper lip with lipstick as bullhorn pulls up the lip to give somewhat of a rabbit look...a small imperfection I can live with. The next step is to try just mascara perhaps. Plastic surgery requires enormous patience and money and time investment if aiming for perfection. If you wish me to give you an opinion on what you may need doing to look more beautiful, send me a private message. But what happens is that usually the person already has decided on what they think will improve their look, and ends up ignoring my advice. Lol.


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## Fortunecat

I was watching a Taiwanese variety show and a plastic surgeon was commenting that Asians have flat temples in general as compared to Caucasians.
Hence, rather than doing zygoma reduction as that is the area where it is protruding out, why don't we make the temples fuller by using fillers or fat grafts? That way, the cheeks won't protrude as much as we thought.
Do you think its doable?

And, the plastic surgeon has also commented about the fat grafts on the face. He admitted that the fat grafts would create a space and that a higher volume of fats would be required for top ups, in order to fill up the enhanced space created by the first fat grafting.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> I was watching a Taiwanese variety show and a plastic surgeon was commenting that Asians have flat temples in general as compared to Caucasians.
> Hence, rather than doing zygoma reduction as that is the area where it is protruding out, why don't we make the temples fuller by using fillers or fat grafts? That way, the cheeks won't protrude as much as we thought.
> Do you think its doable?
> 
> And, the plastic surgeon has also commented about the fat grafts on the face. He admitted that the fat grafts would create a space and that a higher volume of fats would be required for top ups, in order to fill up the enhanced space created by the first fat grafting.


Hi @Fortunecat I agree. Which is why facial fat graft to the forehead does balance out a flat or ridged brow and makes the zygoma less obvious. I noticed that after 4 fat grafts my skin has been stretched so instead of constant fg top ups to fill the space, I have used weight loss to shrink the skin and water to expand cells to plump. I pulled up one side of my facial skin and it overemphasized my tiny v line jaw and protruding zygoma. This means I need zygoma reduction before facelift at age 60. But I am worried about further skin sagging with zygoma reduction. Do I get a facelift at the same time or do I wait for the swelling to subside and do later. In any case the $20k cost is too much to contemplate doing anytime soon. I wish they could just simply shave like I had my chin shaved.


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## MissOrange

Okay I tried making a little speaking video. As it is my S9 phone camera making the selfie IG video, my face looks slimmer in my opinion. So this means videos of afters on instagram or youtube may be slightly different than meeting someone in real life as the S9 focal lens or Apple iphone focal lens may be used in filming the after video. Oh well I look good on my phone. Just make sure no one meets me in person! lol. My husband is making all the background squeaking noise. Going to now make a video in the late Princess Diana's voice...my party trick. lol



I wish I looked this good in real life! Why does my face not look like this in real life? Or do I have borderline bdd? Sigh. Why did they invent phone cameras to make us obsessed with selfies? And now selfie videos?


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on HYS makeup! Wow! Hys without makeup! I need to practice her eye makeup. She has such a small face. Uhoh thinking of zygoma reduction again. lol.


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on HYS makeup! Wow! Hys without makeup! I need to practice her eye makeup. She has such a small face. Uhoh thinking of zygoma reduction again. lol.



Is it only me that who felt that her lower cheeks are big?


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Is it only me that who felt that her lower cheeks are big?


@Fortunecat I was surprised as HYS's cheeks look bigger without makeup. Maybe contouring makeup is giving the illusion of a smaller face? HYS without makeup looks like any normal korean.


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## Noellie

I joined up to say that I have read your thread from the start, thank you so much for all your research and all the information you’ve posted.  I always thought Marie Helvin was the most beautiful model ever and you really resemble her facially,  I wish you would write a book because with your media profile and fascinating journey through the minefield that cosmetic surgery can be,  it would be a best seller!
I am nearly the same age as you,  but you look young enough to be my daughter!!   I am planning a full face lift at 55 and currently researching where to go in the UK

Meanwhile I depend on one of those little Rex Kara machines from Korea that I got on ebay  to keep away jowls using ultrasound and I am thinking about a lip lift because your face was completely transformed by that.  I have been doing research on Realself and I’ve seen a few really nice lip lifts done by Amir Nakhdjevani so I might go to him.  I would not even think of this procedure if I hadn’t seen this thread,  so thank you again for the generous time and effort you have put in to it.


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## MissOrange

Noellie said:


> I joined up to say that I have read your thread from the start, thank you so much for all your research and all the information you’ve posted.  I always thought Marie Helvin was the most beautiful model ever and you really resemble her facially,  I wish you would write a book because with your media profile and fascinating journey through the minefield that cosmetic surgery can be,  it would be a best seller!
> I am nearly the same age as you,  but you look young enough to be my daughter!!   I am planning a full face lift at 55 and currently researching where to go in the UK
> 
> Meanwhile I depend on one of those little Rex Kara machines from Korea that I got on ebay  to keep away jowls using ultrasound and I am thinking about a lip lift because your face was completely transformed by that.  I have been doing research on Realself and I’ve seen a few really nice lip lifts done by Amir Nakhdjevani so I might go to him.  I would not even think of this procedure if I hadn’t seen this thread,  so thank you again for the generous time and effort you have put in to it.


Hi @Noellie welcome to TPF and thank you for taking the time to read my ps journey rantings. I am glad it helped. I hate how we women in our 50s become invisible in society and if it means we have to rejuvenate to be noticed, then so be it.

Why look at facelifts in the U.K.? It is so expensive here. The cheapest for facelifts is with Dr Oelbrandt in Belgium. He consults on Wimpole street. Have a look at his patients on RS who had FLs for around €3k and under sedation! I would be so nervous to pay £7k for FL under local in the U.K. or gobsmacked to pay £12k for FL under GA here. Korea is marginally cheaper for smas FL at $11k and the best suited for Asian faces. I have yet to have a smas facelift. Part of me envies women who get this as the results are instant instead of multiple trips for fat graft top ups and the high maintenance required as fat may reabsorb at different rates in different places. I live on water to keep my fat cells inflated. Lol.

I find it is easier to write up my ps journey here in this ps forum as it is monitored and only those interested in ps would come here. In the real world, anyone writing a book on plastic surgery rejuvenation may get attacked for being vain, etc. as there is such a negative societal bias against women trying to look better or younger with ps so no book. And it is free to read here too!

I shall probably be around here until I get a smas facelift and zygoma reduction at age 60. 6 years to go. Lol.

I must say that when you look younger, your brain gets fooled and thinks you are younger inside too! When it sees a young face in the mirror, the body becomes as fit as a young person too! I played tennis against my daughter’s 25 year old bf and beat him in a round of volleys! My brain thought my body should behave like a young person! The same applied to wall climbing. I climbed up like a young person and not an old lady. Short of getting young blood transfusions, I guess this is the next best thing...fooling your eyes and brain.

PS I love your dog avatar! Now that all my adult daughters have moved out and there is no imminent grandchild in the horizon, I am researching puppies! This generation have more younger couples living together than married here in the U.K.! Hoping my OH buys a puppy before Xmas! Cuddles and no backtalk! Can’t wait!


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## Fortunecat

@MissOrange How's the progress of your arm liposuction? I am in Seoul now and went for a consultation. The surgeon said that i did not need arm liposuction at all despite me feeling that they are big and looks saggy. Oh well...


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange How's the progress of your arm liposuction? I am in Seoul now and went for a consultation. The surgeon said that i did not need arm liposuction at all despite me feeling that they are big and looks saggy. Oh well...


Hi @Fortunecat arm lipo is expensive in korea. If a surgeon refuses arm lipo he either is not experienced,  you do not need or arm lift is needed. Did you measure your mid arm circumference? I showed Dr O the chart and he measured in cms. I measured just now...9.75 inches on the left and 10 inches on the right! Yay! Dr Oelbrandt did it! 7 weeks postop and all the swelling is gone. Fly to Belgium for €1500 arm lipo under iv sedation and a delicious belgian waffle with coke when you wake up! I am going to Dr O for FL at 60!

@MrsKing is in Seoul too. Hook up with her!


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat arm lipo is expensive in korea. If a surgeon refuses arm lipo he either is not experienced,  you do not need or arm lift is needed. Did you measure your mid arm circumference? I showed Dr O the chart and he measured in cms. I measured just now...9.75 inches on the left and 10 inches on the right! Yay! Dr Oelbrandt did it! 7 weeks postop and all the swelling is gone. Fly to Belgium for €1500 arm lipo under iv sedation and a delicious belgian waffle with coke when you wake up! I am going to Dr O for FL at 60!
> 
> @MrsKing is in Seoul too. Hook up with her!


The surgeon suggested double chin liposuction instead of arms liposuction. I did liposuction at other areas too. I shall write my review soon.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> The surgeon suggested double chin liposuction instead of arms liposuction. I did liposuction at other areas too. I shall write my review soon.


Look forward to reading your review @Fortunecat! I have started drinking protein powder shakes! I watched a show on how to stay young and it said that in our 50s the muscles in our arms turn to fat and showed ct scan slices proving this! Ouch! That explains why I had saggy batwing upper arms even when skinny. So that got me thinking I need to eat more protein and take protein supplements! I tried powerlifting a bar bell and only managed 10 kgs! Lol. My daughter can power lift 87.5 kgs! I now want toned upper arms! I think the arm fat he removed is now expanding my butt fat cells as my bum looks bigger! I now get complimented on my bum! And to think it was flat as a pancake in my 20s. I have only had 2 high protein drinks so far and eaten beef bulgogi and chicken stir fry and think I see more arm muscles! Lol.

I wonder why the surgeon refused you arm lipo. Do you have pics of your upper arms? Good you got some other areas liposuctioned as it is a long way to travel. I see Dr O for my 3 month review next month. I may ask about thigh lipo or lift. Lol. If he could lift up the thigh skin, trim and suture it along my glut crease, I would have Barbie legs!


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Look forward to reading your review @Fortunecat! I have started drinking protein powder shakes! I watched a show on how to stay young and it said that in our 50s the muscles in our arms turn to fat and showed ct scan slices proving this! Ouch! That explains why I had saggy batwing upper arms even when skinny. So that got me thinking I need to eat more protein and take protein supplements! I tried powerlifting a bar bell and only managed 10 kgs! Lol. My daughter can power lift 87.5 kgs! I now want toned upper arms! I think the arm fat he removed is now expanding my butt fat cells as my bum looks bigger! I now get complimented on my bum! And to think it was flat as a pancake in my 20s. I have only had 2 high protein drinks so far and eaten beef bulgogi and chicken stir fry and think I see more arm muscles! Lol.
> 
> I wonder why the surgeon refused you arm lipo. Do you have pics of your upper arms? Good you got some other areas liposuctioned as it is a long way to travel. I see Dr O for my 3 month review next month. I may ask about thigh lipo or lift. Lol. If he could lift up the thigh skin, trim and suture it along my glut crease, I would have Barbie legs!


Maybe the surgeon felt that its not sagging at all. I do not have any photos of arms. I shall try to take it the next time.
Do be careful of protein shakes. I put on weight when drinking protein shakes despite doing weights training. Do look at the sugar content for those protein shakes and consume carefully.


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## MissOrange

A friend sent me this. I had to laugh as I have had 3 out of the 5 worst ps! Yep donut lift then needed revision for wonky areolas, filler cut out of my upper lip, and textured breast implants removed en bloc. To think I was contemplating threadlift next! lol


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## MissOrange

After rejuvenation comes checking, checking to make sure you still look young as aging may continue! So far, so good. The Feb 2018 fat graft with Dr Seo at MVP is holding and no forehead wrinkles due to the fat replacement which means no more botox required! An added bonus.


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## MissOrange

Here is my 2 month update on €1500 upper arm liposuction with Dr Oelbrandt of Beveren, Belgium. I can clearly see an improvement. I would say be prepared for swelling and a firm cordlike feeling in your arms as the blood clots and lipo fluid take time to dissolve but definitely by 2 months you get your final result. My left mid arm circumference is now 9.75 inches and my right 10 inches so I think I went down half an inch on the left and an entire inch on the right. Book a £40 consult at his Wimpole street clinic or do a Skype consult and then take the Eurostar or fly to Brussels and take local trains into Beveren. His clinic is a 15 minute walk from the station. When I see him at my 3 month review, I may ask about thigh lift?


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## mora144

Hey Miss Orange,

Do you think its a good idea to get bullhorn lip lift in SK? 
I want to know people’s opinion.


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## MissOrange

mora144 said:


> Hey Miss Orange,
> 
> Do you think its a good idea to get bullhorn lip lift in SK?
> I want to know people’s opinion.


Hi @mora144 I have yet to come across a Korean plastic surgeon who performs bullhorn lip lift as they are wary of the visible scar and potential complaints from Asian patients. Best to go to Mascaro in Florida or Mills in London like I did.


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## mora144

MissOrange said:


> Hi @mora144 I have yet to come across a Korean plastic surgeon who performs bullhorn lip lift as they are wary of the visible scar and potential complaints from Asian patients. Best to go to Mascaro in Florida or Mills in London like I did.



I see. Okay thank you!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on thighs. I was in a fitting room and gasped when I saw the back of my thighs in a mirror! 3 fat graft harvests by DA clinic and 2 by MVP had left me with uneven lumpy posterior cellulitic thighs in contrast to my normal smooth calves! This means we must limit harvesting fat from thighs to twice or was harvesting too brutal?!

I have sent my photos to Dr O who advises bodytite lipo and mini medial incision thigh lift for €2750. I checked RS site prices and ladies are paying £6-10k in London for thigh lift! I see him on November 3 in London for f2f consult. Looks like I shall be travelling back to Beveren, Belgium hopefully next month. I know to wait 3 weeks to see the results as it takes time for fluid and swelling to dissipate. Sigh. Hoping to post amazing afters like I had with his arm lipo. No more face fg for me. My thighs look worse in real life as the S9 lens tried to beautify my thighs!


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## MissOrange

I don't understand? Where are the cellulite lumps today? I had my OH take photos. Same phone camera. I looked in the mirror and I don't see any dimples or lumps? Were the posterior thigh dimples from impressions from the dress I wore or a chair seat? My OH said I absolutely do not need thigh lift or lipo. Why did my thighs look bad in a store fitting room mirror? Which is accurate? Surgery would be £3k including hotel and travel. Can anyone explain why my thighs look different today? Does hydration improve thigh fat as well as the face fg?


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## Sophie_45

MissOrange said:


> I don't understand? Where are the cellulite lumps today? I had my OH take photos. Same phone camera. I looked in the mirror and I don't see any dimples or lumps? Were the posterior thigh dimples from impressions from the dress I wore or a chair seat? My OH said I absolutely do not need thigh lift or lipo. Why did my thighs look bad in a store fitting room mirror? Which is accurate? Surgery would be £3k including hotel and travel. Can anyone explain why my thighs look different today? Does hydration improve thigh fat as well as the face fg?


Perhaps it’s due to the different lighting- strong artificial lighting in fitting rooms vs natural lighting? 
I wonder if there are any clinics in Korea that do micro liposuction of the donor site so that there isn’t a noticeable difference after lipo.


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## MissOrange

Today’s post is on using an aging app to analyse how your face will look if you age without any intervention. Incredible to compare but also very useful in working out how to reverse aging!

1. Younger lips are full vs aging lips are thin and pursed.
2. Young faces have no nasolabial lines or folds vs aging faces have deep nasolabial folds.
3. Young faces are more taut and v line vs aging faces have jowls.
4. Young faces have no wrinkles vs aging faces have forehead wrinkles and crows feet around the outer eyes.


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## MissOrange

Today’s post is for Asian petite ladies. I have finally come across a chart that gives ideal measurements for us Asian ladies as I am always underweight when using Western charts, and interestingly my measurements now match for height, weight, chest, hips, thighs, except for the waist. I don’t see how an Asian lady can have a 22 inch waist?! Lol. I think at my mature age, I have developed a little fat in my waistline and love handles which brings my waist up to 24-25 inches. No need to obsess about 17 inch thighs when the chart says it should be 18 inches for 5’1”. My weight has stabilised at 95.2-95.8 lbs by adding more daytime activity starting at 5 am toilet training a puppy. I am happy with my small 31.5/32 inch chest (32c with a push up bra) as I fit clothes better now and will not embark on breast fat transfer as I am too frightened of breast cysts, lumps, unevenness and top ups.

I am still obsessing over zygoma reduction as I think I agree with Dr Oh, that my cheeks are pronounced at the 45 degree angle and his technique is to cut and rotate the zygoma inward to reduce the prominence and reduce the mid face. I remember him saying that I would not need any nasolabial fillers after asking me what the opaque substance was on my x ray. The question is when do I bite the bullet and fly to Korea. I think it will happen closer to age 60 so it can coincide with a smas facelift.


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## MissOrange

At age 53, the facial fat graft is still holding, especially in my upper lids which is surprising as I weigh 95-97 lbs and the fat graft is not reabsorbing! I am finding life hard looking so young as I expect adults to treat me with the respect that they normally would give a mature 50+ yo lady but instead they expect me to show respect to them at age 30+ as they think I am a youngster! My 61 yo husband gets an enormous amount of respect as he is grey haired and looks 65. If you do rejuvenate and look very young, expect people to assume you are ignorant and immature! Lol. It is really hard to deal with their attitudes!

I have been asked for an update on my breast implant explant. Yes, I had my 4th set, Allergan textured silicone implants removed en bloc January 2019 and yes it was painful in the ribs as the surgeon scraped the scar capsule off the rib cage. I could not hoover for weeks. Periareolar donut lift was suboptimal as it left my breasts saggy with misshapen areolas. He revised in July 2019 with periareolar mastopexy again and I am happy with the results. I have gone from a 34dd to a 32c and will not pursue fat graft. If you end up a A or B cup then I would recommend David Floyd in London for breast fat transfer and Dr Burns and Dr Bednar in the US for breast fat transfer. If you are in the U.K. and need the cheapest and best breast surgeon for explant en bloc with full lift, then I would suggest Mrs Claudia Harding-MacKean. If you need a breast surgeon in London, then try Mr David Floyd for explant en bloc with full lift. If you like a natural look with just explant en bloc, then try Mr Guy Sterne in Birmingham. I would say no to any implant as they may have a silicone shell with a saline interior, etc. And after the US FDA approved the cancer causing textured allergan silicone implants, I am hesitant to trust the FDA with medical devices. Only try breast fat transfer with your own fat cells if you need augmentation. Explanting implants every 7-10 years costs as much as getting them put in! You only make plastic surgeons richer once you begin a journey of breast implants.


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## MissOrange

I have finally made the decision that I need zygoma reduction. The selfies are all from android phones with a focal lens that makes my face look smaller, cheeks smaller and nose bigger than they are in real life and the only photos I can trust are the ones in live news interviews which sadly make my cheeks look extremely prominent and face wide. I know how I will look after zygoma reduction, as it will finally make me look like the android selfies. I have reread all of Dr Oh’s zygoma reduction reviews on RS and feel confident that some of his prior patients had similar issues as mine with prominent zygomas at 45 degrees. I have kakaoed Regenglobal and await a response as it is 8 hours ahead of UK GMT. I had my consult with Dr Oh on Feb 26, 2018 so hoping they still have my records or I can have another consult prior to surgery the next day. I am happy to pay a deposit and for them to use my photos for discounts but need to insist Dr Oh himself do my surgery. I remember Dr Oh said I could have the metalwork removed a year later so if I do react, I have this option. I will finally be able to ditch the cosmetic glasses and look pretty in real life without glasses to hide the cheekbone prominence. I am tired of not finding spectacles wide enough for my face and having to try on men's frames. I can't get a facelift until I address my wide cheekbones else a facelift will only accentuate how wide my cheeks are!

I am hoping to get a surgery date in January or February and will keep you all posted of my journey. I won’t be waiting until I am 60. I have finally worked out why I look bad without glasses on tv and better in selfies. If any of you have booked Regen for facial contouring, please get in touch. Would love to share this journey with kakao friends and meet ups at Regen or nearby. I cannot delude myself with S9 or apple iphone selfies as the lens makes everyone's face smaller than reality.


----------



## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> I have finally made the decision that I need zygoma reduction. The selfies are all from android phones with a focal lens that makes my face look smaller, cheeks smaller and nose bigger than they are in real life and the only photos I can trust are the ones in live news interviews which sadly make my cheeks look extremely prominent and face wide. I know how I will look after zygoma reduction, as it will finally make me look like the android selfies. I have reread all of Dr Oh’s zygoma reduction reviews on RS and feel confident that some of his prior patients had similar issues as mine with prominent zygomas at 45 degrees. I have kakaoed Regenglobal and await a response as it is 8 hours ahead of UK GMT. I had my consult with Dr Oh on Feb 26, 2018 so hoping they still have my records or I can have another consult prior to surgery the next day. I am happy to pay a deposit and for them to use my photos for discounts but need to insist Dr Oh himself do my surgery. I remember Dr Oh said I could have the metalwork removed a year later so if I do react, I have this option. I will finally be able to ditch the cosmetic glasses and look pretty in real life without glasses to hide the cheekbone prominence. I am tired of not finding spectacles wide enough for my face and having to try on men's frames. I can't get a facelift until I address my wide cheekbones else a facelift will only accentuate how wide my cheeks are!
> 
> I am hoping to get a surgery date in January or February and will keep you all posted of my journey. I won’t be waiting until I am 60. I have finally worked out why I look bad without glasses on tv and better in selfies. If any of you have booked Regen for facial contouring, please get in touch. Would love to share this journey with kakao friends and meet ups at Regen or nearby. I cannot delude myself with S9 or apple iphone selfies as the lens makes everyone's face smaller than reality.


Are you going to share your experience on this thread ?


----------



## Murshroom

MissOrange said:


> I have finally made the decision that I need zygoma reduction. The selfies are all from android phones with a focal lens that makes my face look smaller, cheeks smaller and nose bigger than they are in real life and the only photos I can trust are the ones in live news interviews which sadly make my cheeks look extremely prominent and face wide. I know how I will look after zygoma reduction, as it will finally make me look like the android selfies. I have reread all of Dr Oh’s zygoma reduction reviews on RS and feel confident that some of his prior patients had similar issues as mine with prominent zygomas at 45 degrees. I have kakaoed Regenglobal and await a response as it is 8 hours ahead of UK GMT. I had my consult with Dr Oh on Feb 26, 2018 so hoping they still have my records or I can have another consult prior to surgery the next day. I am happy to pay a deposit and for them to use my photos for discounts but need to insist Dr Oh himself do my surgery. I remember Dr Oh said I could have the metalwork removed a year later so if I do react, I have this option. I will finally be able to ditch the cosmetic glasses and look pretty in real life without glasses to hide the cheekbone prominence. I am tired of not finding spectacles wide enough for my face and having to try on men's frames. I can't get a facelift until I address my wide cheekbones else a facelift will only accentuate how wide my cheeks are!
> 
> I am hoping to get a surgery date in January or February and will keep you all posted of my journey. I won’t be waiting until I am 60. I have finally worked out why I look bad without glasses on tv and better in selfies. If any of you have booked Regen for facial contouring, please get in touch. Would love to share this journey with kakao friends and meet ups at Regen or nearby. I cannot delude myself with S9 or apple iphone selfies as the lens makes everyone's face smaller than reality.


Good luck on your surgery and please keep the update!


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## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> Are you going to share your experience on this thread ?


Yes @Pakune. No reply from Regen's kakao yet. It is 1 pm in korea. Please keep in touch and let me know your surgery date with Regen @Pakune. I can meet up if you are in korea at the same time.


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## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> Yes @Pakune. No reply from Regen's kakao yet. It is 1 pm in korea. Please keep in touch and let me know your surgery date with Regen @Pakune. I can meet up if you are in korea at the same time.


Still
Not sure yet for the period unfortunately...


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## MissOrange

I have been offered surgery dates on kakao and chose the January 16 morning slot. The other slots were for the end of January. I requested morning as I want Dr Oh to be fresh and it is a weekday and not weekend so this is good. I shall cut and paste my review into a separate thread on Regen after my surgery as I have so many surgeries in this thread so those interested in my zygoma reduction journey can find it easily. There is a sale on U.K. flights at the moment so I managed to book a premium economy direct flight on sale for what they normally charge for full price economy! Lufthansa was the cheapest at £707 for premium economy but with a 3.5 hour layover in Frankfurt so I chose BA for £848. The BA pilots got their pay rise so the strike is off. I would recommend anyone over 50 to at least fly premium economy for an 11-12 hour flight if possible. I have never stayed in Korea longer than a week as usually bored and missed home but now I have to force myself to stay in Korea for best healing and postop care. I shall buy a turkey syringe to feed myself liquids. I have lived in NYC during snow blizzards so am prepared for 5C or lower Korean weather in January their coldest month of the year! I won’t need to ice as all I have to do is put my face outside the window! Lol

I think the next step will be to wire the 10% deposit. Maybe I should have booked the flights after paying the deposit? But I am too impatient now that Jan 16 is confirmed on kakao. The regular price for Regen zygoma reduction is 8.8 million won which is around £6k as the sterling pound is strong at the moment with the recent election outcome. It is a balance between discounts for use of photos, advance deposit and booking discount and review discount and making sure Dr Oh does the operation himself. I want to make sure I pay enough to make Dr Oh happy as his surgical skills should be valued. I am awaiting the final price after discounts from Regen but let them be aware that I am happy to pay Dr Oh what he wants to make sure he does the operation himself. I guess with writing a review with photos, I am hoping this also helps to ensure I get the world famous Dr Oh. I shall also write a review on RealSelf as it is from those 50 patient reviews with photos, that I was further reassured. I focussed less on the after photos as these may be taken by android or apple phones but more on the before to see if they match my wide face with prominent cheekbones at 45 degrees to confirm I needed the surgery. If you are on a student budget, I would recommend Dr Lee at Girin who charges 5 million won and is less well known but has good results too. I chose Dr Oh as he has RealSelf reviews, speaks English, was able to give me a mini lecture on his surgical technique, saw real patients on his computer and he lectures worldwide and offers surgeons opportunities to visit and observe his operations.

It was a weird encounter yesterday when I queued for lunch at a Korean restaurant and a Chinese student started a conversation with me. She thought I was a student too! She said she doesn’t take selfies on her phone as they are not her and had bought herself a canon professional camera! I thought, wow she had read my mind. I am now in the process of deleting my android photos as this is not accurate (other than to show me what a narrower face with smaller cheeks would look like) and made my decision on zygoma reduction from looking at myself in lots of different mirrors, at all my old camera photos, professional camera photos (see attached) and at tv photos (see attached). Even if the improvement is subtle, it will make a difference which I can enhance with contouring but no matter how much weight I lose, I cannot reduce the size of my cheekbone without surgery. I have realistic expectations, hope the width will be reduced by 1-2 cms and hope my cheeks will be flatter in the front, as when I cover my cheek area with my fingers, my face looks better in the mirror. I am also prepared to cope with postop bone cutting pain. Not sure what to do as in Korea they only give postop paracetamol (Tylenol) on discharge as opiates are not allowed I think?

I usually stay at the California hotel but noticed the nearby days inn is has a female only spa? I will need to arrange lots of meet ups to cope with the loneliness. It will be hard as sightseeing will be limited due to the extreme cold. If anyone is in Korea between Jan 15 and Jan 30, please message me. I am debating whether I ban looking in a mirror when I get back to my hotel room as the first 24 hours can be very traumatic as will day 3 when swelling is at its most.

If there is any postop sagging, then I shall explore smas facelifts but from the surgical technique Dr Oh explained, I am hopeful I won’t need a FL. My back up plan is smas FL with Dr O in Belgium for €3k but hoping to put this off to age 60 if possible.


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## MissOrange

@Pakune I wish I could meet up with you. We could recover together. Hope you find a recovery buddy when you book in the future. I have now booked the 4 star best western Gangnam for £56 a night! Hotels.com has a special offer coupon wintersavings which gets an additional 8% off their sale prices so £56 ended up as more than half price off! I can’t believe I paid this amount to a 2.5 star last year! I have researched foreign exchange rates and oh my, best to wait to January to exchange as the pound dropped in 5 days vs the won! Why? I almost bought won today from Thomas Cook exchange but my friend said they went bust! I rang KEB bank in London but they stopped doing foreign exchange. My options next month will be online travelfx, compare money supermarket foreign exchange places, reserve and exchange at the airport either in the U.K. or Incheon. I shall sort this out in the New Year and hope the pound gets stronger. I guess Korea doesn’t have confidence in Boris Johnson and Brexit. Lol.


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## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> @Pakune I wish I could meet up with you. We could recover together. Hope you find a recovery buddy when you book in the future. I have now booked the 4 star best western Gangnam for £56 a night! Hotels.com has a special offer coupon wintersavings which gets an additional 8% off their sale prices so £56 ended up as more than half price off! I can’t believe I paid this amount to a 2.5 star last year! I have researched foreign exchange rates and oh my, best to wait to January to exchange as the pound dropped in 5 days vs the won! Why? I almost bought won today from Thomas Cook exchange but my friend said they went bust! I rang KEB bank in London but they stopped doing foreign exchange. My options next month will be online travelfx, compare money supermarket foreign exchange places, reserve and exchange at the airport either in the U.K. or Incheon. I shall sort this out in the New Year and hope the pound gets stronger. I guess Korea doesn’t have confidence in Boris Johnson and Brexit. Lol.


I know Regen accept dollars and euros


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## Fortunecat

Oh my oh my!
@MissOrange, Are you serious? Pls think carefully!!! If you have made up your mind, I wish you the best of luck. I hope you won't regret it!!!
Oh gosh!!!


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Oh my oh my!
> @MissOrange, Are you serious? Pls think carefully!!! If you have made up your mind, I wish you the best of luck. I hope you won't regret it!!!
> Oh gosh!!!


@Fortunecat yes it is really happening. I have thought long and hard about this for 22 months since my consult and have finally realised I need to exclude all my android or apple selfies as I am not this pretty in real life as the phone lens is not optimum for true portraits. This is an operation of a lifetime and my final opportunity to achieve real beauty (not android phone lens fake beauty). And I am willing to fly across the world for Dr Oh Myung June to perform the operation. He is also a Seoul national graduate! My university roommate in USA dated and then wed a Korean student who went on to read medicine at Yale and now works and teaches at Yale hospital. He was a genius who studied hard. It left me with a great impression of hardworking korean doctors! I love Dr Oh's passion for zygoma reduction and facial contouring which came through at consultation. Even though the consult was 22 months ago, I remember every part of it as he made such a great impression. A Chinese American friend is more than a year out of zygoma reduction elsewhere in Seoul herself and it did reduce the width of her face to 12.7 cms. She had the option of removing the screws a year later but has had no problems so will keep the titanium in. This is reassuring. I haven't heard of titanium causing a problem but if it does in future, I am willing to fly back for removal.


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## Sophie_45

Hey @MissOrange, 
I know that you highly recommend MVP for eyelid fat graft. I too would like to get it done there (along with fat graft to other areas of my face including temples, forehead and nasolabial folds). Does Dr Seo take an ultrasound to map out arteries before depositing the fat into the face or does he take any other measures to decrease the likelihood of arterial occlusion? 
Apparently, most of the cosmetic injectable related blindness and/or other serious complications cases are from fat grafts done in Korea.


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## figjamm

Good luck! Sounds like you are quite prepared and have thought out many aspects


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## MissOrange

Sophie_45 said:


> Hey @MissOrange,
> I know that you highly recommend MVP for eyelid fat graft. I too would like to get it done there (along with fat graft to other areas of my face including temples, forehead and nasolabial folds). Does Dr Seo take an ultrasound to map out arteries before depositing the fat into the face or does he take any other measures to decrease the likelihood of arterial occlusion?
> Apparently, most of the cosmetic injectable related blindness and/or other serious complications cases are from fat grafts done in Korea.


Hi @Sophie_45 

The art of injecting is to insert the needle and then pull back on the syringe called aspirating to see if there is any flashback from an artery. If not, then you inject the substance, filler, botox or fat graft. No ultrasound. Every surgeon and doc is taught this in med school.


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## Pakune

@MissOrange 
Aren’t you scared about sagging due to the surgery itself and your age ? this is my main concern about this surgery


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## Sophie_45

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Sophie_45
> 
> The art of injecting is to insert the needle and then pull back on the syringe called aspirating to see if there is any flashback from an artery. If not, then you inject the substance, filler, botox or fat graft. No ultrasound. Every surgeon and doc is taught this in med school.


Thanks for the reply  
I strongly believe aspiration can give a false sense of security for multiple reasons but mainly because gauge sizes used for facial injections are far too small to aspirate when using most fillers (let alone fat). I mean you can theoretically use a bigger needle/cannula size to potentially help reduce false negative aspirations but that imposes more risk (eg. faster injecting speeds) and trauma. Also, I would imagine it would be very easy to accidently change the position of the needle/cannula after aspirating.
I think I will consult with Dr Seo in person to discuss further.  
Perhaps I am being paranoid but I'm a scientist so I've been taught to question everything lol. 
All the best for your zygoma reduction!


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## MissOrange

Thank you @figjamm. I am still trying to find a Regen zygoma patient to chat with.


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## MissOrange

Sophie_45 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> I strongly believe aspiration can give a false sense of security for multiple reasons but mainly because gauge sizes used for facial injections are far too small to aspirate when using most fillers (let alone fat). I mean you can theoretically use a bigger needle/cannula size to potentially help reduce false negative aspirations but that imposes more risk (eg. faster injecting speeds) and trauma. Also, I would imagine it would be very easy to accidently change the position of the needle/cannula after aspirating.
> I think I will consult with Dr Seo in person to discuss further.
> Perhaps I am being paranoid but I'm a scientist so I've been taught to question everything lol.
> All the best for your zygoma reduction!


Ah you're a scientist! I totally get you. We analyse, do risk assessments, research etc. 100% I would recommend eyelid fg with Dr Seo. Even a S9 camera does not make eyelid fg appear if it has been reabsorbed. It has lasted almost 2 years now.


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## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> @MissOrange
> Aren’t you scared about sagging due to the surgery itself and your age ? this is my main concern about this surgery


Yes @Pakune. I already have some facial skin sagging from age and multiple fgs but so far +++water hydration lifts and expands my skin.

If I get worsening sagging postop, I shall try water, head compression bandage and if no better, then am prepared to book smas FL with Dr O in Belgium. I won't try threadlift as even the longest lasting pds thread will reabsorb by 6 months. But reading his reviews, his patients have either no sagging or a little at 8 months. I have been reassured Dr Oh himself will see me on the 15th and operate on the 16th. At my age I need to make sure he himself does the surgery.


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## MissOrange

I found Regen on YouTube videos! Yay! I found a Japanese patient who got zygoma reduction and v line and blogged it live.  I am so reassured and looking forward to my turn now. I can definitely see the ct scan difference. She says the length of her face is now 18 cms! Wow. I just measured and my face width is 14.5 cms and the length 19.5 cms. I found her on Instagram and she even dyed her hair blonde! She still looks good. Now I can totally understand how Dr Oh will do the zygoma reduction.


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## Gats

Sophie_45 said:


> Thanks for the reply
> I strongly believe aspiration can give a false sense of security for multiple reasons but mainly because gauge sizes used for facial injections are far too small to aspirate when using most fillers (let alone fat). I mean you can theoretically use a bigger needle/cannula size to potentially help reduce false negative aspirations but that imposes more risk (eg. faster injecting speeds) and trauma. Also, I would imagine it would be very easy to accidently change the position of the needle/cannula after aspirating.



Just wanted to chime in as I saw a couple videos recently which relates to this, after watching them I would definitely make sure the doc uses a cannula for filler/fat placement:


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## Gats

@MissOrange, good luck on your surgery! I am concerned about the risk of sagging given how often it occurs even in early 20s patients (I'm curious how often Dr. Oh does this surgery on more mature patients), but I know you are well aware of the risk and are prepared to get a lift if it happens.


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## MissOrange

With 15 days to go to the surgery date, I have chickened out. I have come across some worrying articles on allergic contact dermatitis with titanium plate and screws and that would be me as I am allergic to nickel in cheap jewellery! And as disposable screws may be made of magnesium and may not be strong enough to hold zygoma/ maxillary fractures, I think it best I cancel for safety concerns. I have kakaoed Regen for a full deposit refund of £471 (700,000 won) which was 10% of the surgery price. I would highly recommend those going to Korea for plastic surgery to join open kakao groups of likewise individuals flying to Korea. You can ask a huge group whether you need a procedure or not by posting your photo (eyes covered if you wish) and the overwhelming consensus was that I did not need zygoma reduction but maybe a lifting procedure. I have learned so much and even chatted with a young lady who suffered allergic contact dermatitis to her titanium plate and screws from zygoma surgery at another clinic! She had to apply steroid cream to her face daily for a year! I think if you have a history of eczema or allergies, then it may be best to avoid surgeries which involve foreign bodies. Even though titanium screws may be removed after a year, it is the possibility of a year of suffering I am not willing to risk after recently surviving a year of immune reactions to textured silicone implants. As the flight is non refundable I shall just go visit relatives and make new travel friends. I wonder if I can come back from Seoul without doing any procedure? Lol

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1883195815001115

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0067449


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## J Cn

MissOrange said:


> With 15 days to go to the surgery date, I have chickened out. I have come across some worrying articles on allergic contact dermatitis with titanium plate and screws and that would be me as I am allergic to nickel in cheap jewellery! And as disposable screws may be made of magnesium and may not be strong enough to hold zygoma/ maxillary fractures, I think it best I cancel for safety concerns. I have kakaoed Regen for a full deposit refund of £471 (700,000 won) which was 10% of the surgery price. I would highly recommend those going to Korea for plastic surgery to join open kakao groups of likewise individuals flying to Korea. You can ask a huge group whether you need a procedure or not by posting your photo (eyes covered if you wish) and the overwhelming consensus was that I did not need zygoma reduction but maybe a lifting procedure. I have learned so much and even chatted with a young lady who suffered allergic contact dermatitis to her titanium plate and screws from zygoma surgery at another clinic! She had to apply steroid cream to her face daily for a year! I think if you have a history of eczema or allergies, then it may be best to avoid surgeries which involve foreign bodies. Even though titanium screws may be removed after a year, it is the possibility of a year of suffering I am not willing to risk after recently surviving a year of immune reactions to textured silicone implants. As the flight is non refundable I shall just go visit relatives and make new travel friends. I wonder if I can come back from Seoul without doing any procedure? Lol
> 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1883195815001115
> 
> https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0067449


Having just seen some of your photos from looking through this thread, you definitely don't need zygoma reduction! Isn't it funny how we always spot so many flaws in ourselves that other people don't see!
How do I join the big KKT group?


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## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> With 15 days to go to the surgery date, I have chickened out. I have come across some worrying articles on allergic contact dermatitis with titanium plate and screws and that would be me as I am allergic to nickel in cheap jewellery! And as disposable screws may be made of magnesium and may not be strong enough to hold zygoma/ maxillary fractures, I think it best I cancel for safety concerns. I have kakaoed Regen for a full deposit refund of £471 (700,000 won) which was 10% of the surgery price. I would highly recommend those going to Korea for plastic surgery to join open kakao groups of likewise individuals flying to Korea. You can ask a huge group whether you need a procedure or not by posting your photo (eyes covered if you wish) and the overwhelming consensus was that I did not need zygoma reduction but maybe a lifting procedure. I have learned so much and even chatted with a young lady who suffered allergic contact dermatitis to her titanium plate and screws from zygoma surgery at another clinic! She had to apply steroid cream to her face daily for a year! I think if you have a history of eczema or allergies, then it may be best to avoid surgeries which involve foreign bodies. Even though titanium screws may be removed after a year, it is the possibility of a year of suffering I am not willing to risk after recently surviving a year of immune reactions to textured silicone implants. As the flight is non refundable I shall just go visit relatives and make new travel friends. I wonder if I can come back from Seoul without doing any procedure? Lol
> 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1883195815001115
> 
> https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0067449


I have heard it was impossible to get allergy from titanium.. I’m surprised now


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## gazoo

I read this thread religiously and find you fascinating. I am relieved you changed your mind. You don't need this surgery.  End of. You are gorgeous. As you are!! 

Enjoy your youthfulness  and focus on the fact that you look so young my husband again said you look to be maybe 28 or less. That's astounding!! Without risking allergic reactions, instant sagging, or even worse complications. Please enjoy your beauty. ❤


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## gazoo

Pakune said:


> I have heard it was impossible to get allergy from titanium.. I’m surprised now



My sister is allergic to Titanium, amongst a whole other bunch of allergens. It can happen. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen her terrible and life threatening reaction to titanium screws used in a surgery to help her walk after she tore her Achilles.


----------



## Pakune

gazoo said:


> My sister is allergic to Titanium, amongst a whole other bunch of allergens. It can happen. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen her terrible and life threatening reaction to titanium screws used in a surgery to help her walk after she tore her Achilles.


I guess titanium is the safest but can still have side effect lol 
I already had titanium screw before so I think I’m safe


----------



## MissOrange

J Cn said:


> Having just seen some of your photos from looking through this thread, you definitely don't need zygoma reduction! Isn't it funny how we always spot so many flaws in ourselves that other people don't see!
> How do I join the big KKT group?


Hi @J Cn the link is https://open.kakao.com/o/gRpoZIob
I found it by going to open chat groups on kakao and entering plastic surgery 2020. There is also one on facial contouring but this seems more active.

Now the latest on deposit refund policies. I thought it was 100% with more than 3 days notice but that kca is outdated. The current Korean Consumer Act is here. https://www.kca.go.kr/down/eng/190820_CriteriaforsettlementofConsumerDisputes.pdf
It says 90% refund with more than 3 days notice as 10% is clinic compensation. Regen kakaoed me to say they will wire back in won not stirling pounds. Regen has its own deposit refund policy and asks for 7 days notice (see translated image). I gave 16 days notice.


----------



## Gats

Agree you don't need the surgery, the risks outweigh the reward here IMO so I'm glad you've reconsidered. Most women your age would love to look how youthful you look now, don't take it for granted. Cheekbones are a major supporting structure in the face, everyone needs to tread very carefully when it comes to altering it.


----------



## MissOrange

gazoo said:


> My sister is allergic to Titanium, amongst a whole other bunch of allergens. It can happen. I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't seen her terrible and life threatening reaction to titanium screws used in a surgery to help her walk after she tore her Achilles.


Wow @gazoo I am sorry about your sister. Life threatening is way worse than an allergic rash! Omg I am so glad we are discussing this metal allergy. Granted not everyone has a metal allergy but if you are someone with a history of atopy, allergies, or eczema, best to avoid.


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange Yay! I am so happy that you are not going for the zygoma reduction surgery anymore!!! That's good news! Enjoy your Korean trip! Its going to be cold!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Yay! I am so happy that you are not going for the zygoma reduction surgery anymore!!! That's good news! Enjoy your Korean trip! Its going to be cold!


Thanks @Fortunecat and I found a real regen patient to chat with. She had sagging and regretted her zygoma op. This may explain why even bqq needed a FL after her zygoma op, why some regen patients get fg at the same time as FC and why View suggested a FL at the same time or 5-6 months later after zygoma surgery.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is a plea for foreigners to stay well clear of April31 for rhino. I am chatting with a lovely American who is now the latest botched victim of April31. She is so botched she is staying in korea for months until she finds a revision rhino ps as she dare not show anyone back home. I saw her b+a photos. I am soooo mad at April31. They botched a young 18 yo Chinese girl in 2016, then American NadineP and now this beautiful lady in her 20s who is suffering in Korea as I type. She went back to ask what can be done to reconstruct her nose and got pitiful looks. They flattened her bridge, widened her nose, bulked it up and l am so shocked they even touched her beautiful before nose.

For those researching revision rhino in Korea, add Dr Jin's premium nose clinic and JJ  Hong's clinic to your list of possible good clinics.


----------



## BigBrownEyedGir

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is a plea for foreigners to stay well clear of April31 for rhino. I am chatting with a lovely American who is now the latest botched victim of April31. She is so botched she is staying in korea for months until she finds a revision rhino ps as she dare not show anyone back home. I saw her b+a photos. I am soooo mad at April31. They botched a young 18 yo Chinese girl in 2016, then American NadineP and now this beautiful lady in her 20s who is suffering in Korea as I type. She went back to ask what can be done to reconstruct her nose and got pitiful looks. They flattened her bridge, widened her nose, bulked it up and l am so shocked they even touched her beautiful before nose.
> 
> For those researching revision rhino in Korea, add Dr Jin's premium nose clinic and JJ  Hong's clinic to your list of possible good clinics.


Hi @MissOrange can you recommend a full face fat graft and how much you paid for it? Did you do it 2x or more and where did they take the fat from? I’m noticing deepening smile lines and hollows under my eyes. I also want to get thread lifting, have you had this or was it a face lift you had (can’t remember what I read in this thread previously sorry if I’m totally off base!!)? Thanks for posting the open kakao links I’ll have to check them out and ask for opinions there too


----------



## MissOrange

BigBrownEyedGir said:


> Hi @MissOrange can you recommend a full face fat graft and how much you paid for it? Did you do it 2x or more and where did they take the fat from? I’m noticing deepening smile lines and hollows under my eyes. I also want to get thread lifting, have you had this or was it a face lift you had (can’t remember what I read in this thread previously sorry if I’m totally off base!!)? Thanks for posting the open kakao links I’ll have to check them out and ask for opinions there too


Hi @BigBrownEyedGir 

I had bad FG at DA and paid them 2.5 mill for 2 (ie including top up) then 1 mill for the third. Then I went to mvp and paid 1 mill for multiple procedure loyalty discount. I think you should stop at 2 or 3 but go to MVP or Fresh. It is high maintenance and requires a ban on msg, salty foods, foods high in fat and religioud weight control and +++ water intake.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on how soon post rhinoplasty can you get emergency revision. In the US and UK they make you wait a year. However I pushed for my emergency revision at 3 months for rhino abscess and collapsed tip with my UK rhino surgeon and got it. In Korea Dr Jin revised a rhinoplasty successfully at 3 weeks and 2 days. I think ideally emergency rhino revision is undertaken at under 2 weeks due to scar tissue formation making it difficult to work on the nose. 

Here is a blog post on the pros and cons of septal, ear and rib cartilage in rhinoplasty.

https://www.vippsblog.com/plastic-surgery-101/cartilage/


----------



## huongkhanmoon

Hi MissOrange,

Your thread has been very helpful, and I'm stunned by how youthful and beautiful you look at your age. As for me, I'm not very into cosmetic surgery (out of fear of pain and of that things will go wrong, I guess), but lately due to my insomnia there's some eyebag/dark circle starting to develop under my eyes so I've decided to address this. After a lot of research and online consultation with various clinics, I'm thinking of having stem cell fat graft done to "fix" my under eye problem, as well as boosting some volume for my (very skinny ) face.

Given you have a lot of knowledge in different procedures, what is your thought on "stem cell fat graft"? I can't find many posts in the forum mentioning this, so am just wondering if you can kindly shed some light on this topic...

Thanks in advance


----------



## MissOrange

huongkhanmoon said:


> Hi MissOrange,
> 
> Your thread has been very helpful, and I'm stunned by how youthful and beautiful you look at your age. As for me, I'm not very into cosmetic surgery (out of fear of pain and of that things will go wrong, I guess), but lately due to my insomnia there's some eyebag/dark circle starting to develop under my eyes so I've decided to address this. After a lot of research and online consultation with various clinics, I'm thinking of having stem cell fat graft done to "fix" my under eye problem, as well as boosting some volume for my (very skinny ) face.
> 
> Given you have a lot of knowledge in different procedures, what is your thought on "stem cell fat graft"? I can't find many posts in the forum mentioning this, so am just wondering if you can kindly shed some light on this topic...
> 
> Thanks in advance


I hear prp or stem cell fat graft lasts longer than regular fat graft.


----------



## MissOrange

Today’s post is on use of CT scan imaging to help you decide whether it is facial contouring you need or facial lifting procedure. I had not realised how cheap it is to get a 3D ct scan in Korea until I was offered this for only 10,000 won or just under $10! CD copies are also sold for an additional 20-40,000 won! I took photos of the images on the computer screen for my record too. This showed me that my zygoma is not big and that my lower face needed lifting! I managed to get quotes for FL cheaper than ASPS from Namu, Girin and View f2f but still a lot more than Dr Oelbrandt charges for his smas facelift so I shall choose Dr O in future.

Meanwhile here are some amazingly clear images so you too can see how obvious it becomes that it is a skin/fat issue and not a bone issue for me.


----------



## MissOrange

For those who cannot tolerate breast implants or who have had them explanted, breast fat transfer becomes the only option for breast augmentation without implants. In the US it costs $9-11k, in the U.K. £4-5k but in Korea it is 3-4 million won or £2-2.7k! I have met with Dr Hong of Fresh clinic this afternoon and was so impressed that I have booked breast FT for tomorrow with harvest jet fat graft from my love handles to use. It cost me 4 million won + 10% tax which I can reclaim at Incheon and I paid by cc. Not sure if credit cards offer insurance for overseas procedures but the price was the same for cash or card. He will use prp fat graft. The added bonus is the liposuction of my middle aged love handles! After the swelling went down from revision periareolar mastopexy back in July 2019, my breasts looked like I had breastfed! I decided I could not live with this appearance and hoping my breasts retain some of the extra fat being transferred. In the U.K. they wanted me to gain more weight but in Korea and in the US they can handle slim ladies! I shall keep you posted of how this develops.


----------



## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> Today’s post is on use of CT scan imaging to help you decide whether it is facial contouring you need or facial lifting procedure. I had not realised how cheap it is to get a 3D ct scan in Korea until I was offered this for only 10,000 won or just under $10! CD copies are also sold for an additional 20-40,000 won! I took photos of the images on the computer screen for my record too. This showed me that my zygoma is not big and that my lower face needed lifting! I managed to get quotes for FL cheaper than ASPS from Namu, Girin and View f2f but still a lot more than Dr Oelbrandt charges for his smas facelift so I shall choose Dr O in future.
> 
> Meanwhile here are some amazingly clear images so you too can see how obvious it becomes that it is a skin/fat issue and not a bone issue for me.


Hello miss orange 
As dr OH from Regen suggested you zygoma, do you still have a good opinion about him ? are you disappointed he didn’t suggest you face life over than zygoma ?


----------



## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> Hello miss orange
> As dr OH from Regen suggested you zygoma, do you still have a good opinion about him ? are you disappointed he didn’t suggest you face life over than zygoma ?


Hi @Pakune, oddly they only did x rays at Regen and not CT scan. At the time of exam back in Feb 2018 my face was swollen with fat graft so not ideal to assess my zygoma. I now know to make sure to see CT scans before booking any facial bone contouring procedure. I think my fat graft has now almost completely reabsorbed from my forehead and lower face which has resulted in skin sagging which was not present back in Feb 2018 when I went to Regen shortly after my MVP full face fg. I guess the bottom line is facial fat graft is temporary. I may go back to nasolabial fillers. It suggests that tomorrow's breast FT may also be temporary but at least the lipo of the love handles will be permanent and as I will have liposuctioned most of my body at one point or another, I am hoping remaining fat cells in my breasts expand as they are doing in my bottom. I will not get breast FT top up as each FT stretches skin.


----------



## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Pakune, oddly they only did x rays at Regen and not CT scan. At the time of exam back in Feb 2018 my face was swollen with fat graft so not ideal to assess my zygoma. I now know to make sure to see CT scans before booking any facial bone contouring procedure. I think my fat graft has now almost completely reabsorbed from my forehead and lower face which has resulted in skin sagging which was not present back in Feb 2018 when I went to Regen shortly after my MVP full face fg. I guess the bottom line is facial fat graft is temporary. I may go back to nasolabial fillers. It suggests that tomorrow's breast FT may also be temporary but at least the lipo of the love handles will be permanent and as I will have liposuctioned most of my body at one point or another, I am hoping remaining fat cells in my breasts expand as they are doing in my bottom. I will not get breast FT top up as each FT stretches skin.


I think you are making the good decision according to your ct scan 
Your zygoma doesn’t seem that obvious and I’m wondering if I should do this surgery now 
Apparently my face bones are very weak and don’t have much bones.. 
I just noticed that your bite is not perfectly aligned thanks to your ct scan but it’s not visible on your picture ! Which is amazing, and prove that fatgrafting and genioplasty can hide little bites concerns ! It’s a good news for me and some others lol 
Thanks for sharing with us miss orange


----------



## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> I think you are making the good decision according to your ct scan
> Your zygoma doesn’t seem that obvious and I’m wondering if I should do this surgery now
> Apparently my face bones are very weak and don’t have much bones..
> I just noticed that your bite is not perfectly aligned thanks to your ct scan but it’s not visible on your picture ! Which is amazing, and prove that fatgrafting and genioplasty can hide little bites concerns ! It’s a good news for me and some others lol
> Thanks for sharing with us miss orange


Remember as we age our bones thin and reduce in size. My OH keeps saying my facial bones will shrink with age for free!


----------



## MissOrange

Well it is 9 am in Seoul so my cut off and now nil by mouth for my 3 pm op. I have found the cheapest botox thus far...77,000 won for crows feet, ie £50! I head to Namu for this shortly. They also offer lipolysis injections for fat in the face for 100,000 won about £70. Facial liposuction is too high risk imo so this is a good option.


----------



## BigBrownEyedGir

MissOrange said:


> Hi @BigBrownEyedGir
> 
> I had bad FG at DA and paid them 2.5 mill for 2 (ie including top up) then 1 mill for the third. Then I went to mvp and paid 1 mill for multiple procedure loyalty discount. I think you should stop at 2 or 3 but go to MVP or Fresh. It is high maintenance and requires a ban on msg, salty foods, foods high in fat and religioud weight control and +++ water intake.


I love salty foods and alcoholic beverages/coffee and I hate drinking water. Lol maybe this is why my skin and face looks like crap haha. Good to know, thank you @MissOrange I will look into MVP and Fresh.


----------



## J Cn

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on how soon post rhinoplasty can you get emergency revision. In the US and UK they make you wait a year. However I pushed for my emergency revision at 3 months for rhino abscess and collapsed tip with my UK rhino surgeon and got it. In Korea Dr Jin revised a rhinoplasty successfully at 3 weeks and 2 days. I think ideally emergency rhino revision is undertaken at under 2 weeks due to scar tissue formation making it difficult to work on the nose.
> 
> Here is a blog post on the pros and cons of septal, ear and rib cartilage in rhinoplasty.
> 
> https://www.vippsblog.com/plastic-surgery-101/cartilage/


Just to add for anyone who is reading this, VIP will obviously be biased towards rib cartilage as that is what they specialise in. There are quite a lot of disadvantages to using your own rib cartilage too, such as:

- Warping
- Resorption which means that the shape of the nose could change (especially with diced cartilage fascia)
- It is quite a hard material and apparently makes the nose feel quite stiff
- Harvesting the rib cartilage is quite invasive and I heard it is more painful and uncomfortable afterwards than the rhinoplasty itself
- Leads to scarring at the site of the harvesting
- Potential for donor site morbidity
- More expensive

Although I haven't had rhinoplasty yet, I think I will probably choose to augment my bridge with silicone. I think rib rhino is too invasive and has the potential for more aesthetic issues.


----------



## ALICEL

Holy **** 
No way your 50???


----------



## MissOrange

OMG! So much has happened between 14:50 Friday January the 17th and now Tuesday January the 21st!!!

I was in my surgical wrap jacket and trousers at Fresh, and it was 10 minutes before my op time. I started to have a massive anxiety panic attack over what I had been told by Evelyn the consultant and signed on Fresh's consent form! Evelyn had informed me that Dr Hong does the anaesthesia himself! I had asked her if there was an anaesthetist surprised to see the consent form read propofol, midazolam and ketamine! I kept worrying I might die like Michael Jackson as this was a clinic not hospital with no anaesthetist to intubate me if I stopped breathing on propofol. No anaesthetist she replied. Dr Hong does it himself. Then her words that I could come back for injections if I got breast oil cysts or lumps after breast FT kept replaying it my mind. She went on to say if that didn't work Dr Hong could remove the cysts or lumps. I live in the uk so coming back to sort out potential complications was not an option. I started weighing the risks and benefits of breast FT with the risks of propofol administered outside a hospital setting by the doctor and not anaesthetist?

It was 14:50 and I was frantically asking my January kkt group what to do???? I trained in surgery in the States. I knew in the US and UK propofol is used for GA and not for twilight sedation.

Decision made, I cancelled! Evelyn tried her best to reassure me Dr Hong had no anaesthetic complications and his asian patients have not had cysts but I could not imagine how he could do both the iv sedation, monitor my breathing and do my breast FT with lipo from my flank. They have a good cc policy and I got back 90% of the total surgery price on my cc but lost the 10% deposit or 400,000 won.


----------



## MissOrange

As I walked out of Fresh I thought I am 5 minutes walk from mvp and starved since 9 am so why not see if I can get breast FT later today or tomorrow. MVP had quoted me 3 million when I had enquired months earlier asking prices around the uk, europe and korea.

The manager Ellen was off that Friday and a new consultant told me Dr Seo did not do breast FT but Dr Hyun did. Alas both had full op lists for Friday and Saturday.

At this point I started thinking well my lower face could use some fg top up as imo ulthera may have caused fg loss to my lower face. So I asked to see Dr Seo for lower face fg top up.

I waited and in between surgeries I had a minute with him. He assessed my face and like View, Namu and Girin said I needed a lift. He suggested full face fg with threadlifting. As I hero worship Dr Seo for rejuvenating my old eyes and for correcting DA's fg, I trusted him 100% and said yes, yes anything Dr Seo says.

I bargained hard on the price as Ellen was not there so staff did not know about my loyalty customer discount or multiple procedure discount.

I managed to get the threadlift quote down from 3 to 2 million which matched Namu's quote for threadlift for me ie 2 million or 4 threads. I never even asked Dr Seo how many threads and just assumed it would be 4 total. I must say I waa influenced by meeting a young man who had just had threadlift elsewhere and what just 1 thread on each side did to lift after mini v line sagging.

Dr Seo approved the addition to the end of the day list and I went to theatre shortly thereafter. I couldn't believe I had managed to get same day surgery with 2-3 hours notice!


----------



## MissOrange

Here I am going around doing consults 1-2 days prior at Namu, View and Girin, 3 said facelift and 2 said with zygoma and 1 said zygoma, v line shaving and facelift.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is the immediate b+a with Dr Seo at mvp for threadlift with 6 threads and full face fg. The bottom left was taken hours before the op while consulting with Dr Seo Friday. The afters were taken Saturday morning as I had already peeled off the forehead tapes ahead of my mvp follow up appt that day for 1:30 pm.

I was amazed I had an instant v line and high cheekbones! But then my anxiety grew and grew. I had not thought it through properly. I have an autoummune reaction to foreign bodies..silicone textured implants (gave me eosinophilic oesophagitis, antral ulcer, burning painful dry eyes, rash, histiocytic reaction to silicone on pathology report on explant, brain fog etc), the premaxilla gortex implant had become infected and drained pus from the roof of my mouth into my oral cavity and had needed urgent removal, my rib rhino had developed an abscess with tip collapse at 2.5 weeks from reaction to the permanent stitches inside my nose and needed weeks of antibiotics and revision rhino again and I always take out stitches 2-3 days post as my skin reacts with intense itching, pain and skin irritation until the stitches come out.

The more I worried, the more pain I felt at the thread insertion sites and the more tight my face felt from simultaneous facial fg + thread tightening. I googled and read that autoimmune diseases are actually a contraindication to threadlifting! That and neurosis which I was having big time about having a ticking time bomb to when my body would totally reject and how it would manifest, ie would I have pus pouring from 6 incisions in my scalp as my body rejects, would I get a facial rash for 6-12 months etc. I went back early at noon to mvp to discuss urgent removal.

I appreciated Dr Seo's amazing abilities to achieve a v line face lifted result with just thread lifts and how he had stayed late on Friday, how nurses stayed late to 11 pm for me, how Anna the consultant rode with me in a taxi to my hotel and mvp covered the taxi ride, how he had spent extra time to give me the best threadlift result even though he was tired from a full list Mon-Sat every week...

Both Dr Seo in between surgeries and Ellen tried to reassure me the threads were dissolvable and I had had dissolvable fillers in the past with no problems but what was truly touching was they showed empathy to my intense anxiety over another autoimmune reaction. I sent reports to Ellen via kakao, photos of my nose abscess (which had poured pus from holes in my nose skin), my pathology and endoscopy reports, etc.

It was now up to Dr Seo. Ellen said they had never had a patient ask for removal as pdo are dissolvable. Dr Seo said why didn't I tell him yesterday about my autoimmune condition? I blamed myself for messing so many people about. I had come in hoping to get breast FT to repair my post en bloc implant removal but somehow agreed to ffg + threads on an impulse.

I said if not today I would have to buy another plane ticket, miss my Monday flight and pay for hotels but that I could not live with daily worry for 6 months.

The clinic was due to close at 5 pm on Saturday. Staff were tired. All eyes were on Dr Seo and I was weeping beating myself up for agreeing to threads and forgetting my body reacts to foreign bodies...


----------



## MissOrange

Then came his reply...yes ok. Ellen charged me 500,000 for removal. What a painful mistake I had made. Now 2.5 mill won for a threadlift experiment with removal. The ffg had cost extra but I was happy to pay for the extra boost to help fill out my lower face, malar cheeks and forehead as I felt ulthera may have taken my lower face back a few top ups.

Now came the talk of risks of thread removal under local....scarring, tissue damage, dents, thread breakage, inability to remove all 6, skin sagging...but my physical and mental health had to take priority and I was taken back to theatre at 5:45 pm for removal of 6 threads.

The bottom line is threads give amazing instant lift results and one clinic even  advertised this for brides but google and check yourself if you have a contraindication to make sure you are an ideal surgical candidate for threads which are much cheaper than 9-10 million won smas FLs.

As I flew home yesterday my face swelled up from day 3 of my 5th full face fat graft. No photos please until this swelling and bruising subside. With 2 ops in 2 days my facial swelling is now +++ but thankfully my puppy still recognised me even though Heathrow's facial recogniton software did not.

Then I got back Dr Oelbrandt's quote for smas FL based on the photos I sent (my befores above) and he quoted £3.5k. Ellen mentioned in asians with thin skin smas lasts 1 year! Yikes. I shall reassess my face once my balloon face swelling goes down. Should have bought a chanel bag at duty free instead of try threads lol.Oh well at least I know what I would look like after a facelift but knowing that even smas FL is not permanent and may need to be repeated every 5 years,  I need to put it off as long as I can using fat, fillers and water for volume to lift.


----------



## Fortunecat

Looking at your photos, you don't need zygoma surgery. Your cheeks aren't protruding outwards at all.
But the threadlifts really made your face v-line though. Wow!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Looking at your photos, you don't need zygoma surgery. Your cheeks aren't protruding outwards at all.
> But the threadlifts really made your face v-line though. Wow!


@Fortunecat, alas I had all 6 threads removed so relying on this fat graft to see how my face ends up. It is still very swollen today, day 4 of full face FG so I won’t know yet if I still have any v line or if without threads I am back to a square jaw with sagging of the jowls.


----------



## Gats

Wow, what an adventure you've been on! The difference with threadlift is striking, the biggest complaint I've heard about them is it's just a temporary effect, but if the price was right and it didn't leave you with any negative side effects, I can see why people would use it like they do other temporary procedures like botox and filler.



MissOrange said:


> I started weighing the risks and benefits of breast FT with the risks of propofol administered outside a hospital setting by the doctor and not anesthetist?



What type of anesthesia were you told at consultation they would do? How common is that in Korea for the doctor to do all that himself? With propofol you'd be breathing with a machine right? No way would I let a single doctor try to juggle all those duties at once while performing surgery on me!


----------



## MOTTY26

Hi Ms. O - with TL and FG are u under local, how long did it take also, will ur face be swollen of u only do TL ?
Does TL and FG should be done together?


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Wow, what an adventure you've been on! The difference with threadlift is striking, the biggest complaint I've heard about them is it's just a temporary effect, but if the price was right and it didn't leave you with any negative side effects, I can see why people would use it like they do other temporary procedures like botox and filler.
> 
> 
> 
> What type of anesthesia were you told at consultation they would do? How common is that in Korea for the doctor to do all that himself? With propofol you'd be breathing with a machine right? No way would I let a single doctor try to juggle all those duties at once while performing surgery on me!


Hi @Gats, I only had the TL face for a day as I got them taken out next day! For ppl with no autoimmune condition or contact dermatitis, then yes dissolvable threads in skillful artistic hands can look like an instant FL (like I had with Dr Seo at MVP clinic) and last as long as it takes for the pdo threads to dissolve...3 months in hot climates and 6-12 months in colder I would estimate. It is just that I could not cope with the worry over if and when my body would react to the 6 foreign bodies inside my face.

I am approaching day 5 of the full face fg which was done simultaneously with the TL and day 4 of threads removal. I am anxious to see what I look like now but have to wait to deswell. My fat grafted forehead is huge and round as are my cheeks exacerbated from 15 hours of flights and travel home.

No!!!!! I was facing propofol with NO ventilator!!! At Fresh clinic the translator said iv sedation with propofol, midazolam and ketamine. It was in black and white on the consent form. My Korean cousin's wife later explained in Korea they do things differently and even dentists use propofol!!! That's the milky substance the late MJ died from getting it iv in his home without a ventilator.


----------



## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Hi Ms. O - with TL and FG are u under local, how long did it take also, will ur face be swollen of u only do TL ?
> Does TL and FG should be done together?


Hi @MOTTY26 it is done under twilight iv sedation in Korea. I was taken to theatre between 5 and 6 pm and discharged at 11 pm. Dr Seo advised I get full face fat graft with the TL and I see that even ppl getting smas FLs often get it with fat graft to add volume in strategic places. The pain from the TL tightening while the face swells from fat graft may be considerable so maybe try TL on its own first?


----------



## MissOrange

Here is proof positive thar anyone can afford a smas facelift! Dr Oelbrandt did my arm lipo in September so well that in Korea I got so many comments of how skinny I was based on seeing my arms!!!

I love his FL on a 62 yo on RS who paid £3k (see collage b+a) so I sent my before photos and got this reply.

This is where I will go for FL in the future. He has a fully qualified anaesthesiologist and a mature theatre nurse who knows her stuff too!


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## cute_lil_fiend

Fresh's surgeon gives me the impression that he's trying to do a lot with very little (skeleton crew) and trying to maximize profits by doing everything he can himself.
I would be very hesitant to allow administration of that particular cocktail of drugs (esp ketamine and propofol),  by anyone other than an anesthesiologist. 

Too bad you took out the threads but you have to put your health first. I would love to see someone on pf document the healing process of a thread facelift.


----------



## jeejee65

Wow you do really look 20's! so natural.


----------



## MissOrange

cute_lil_fiend said:


> Fresh's surgeon gives me the impression that he's trying to do a lot with very little (skeleton crew) and trying to maximize profits by doing everything he can himself.
> I would be very hesitant to allow administration of that particular cocktail of drugs (esp ketamine and propofol),  by anyone other than an anesthesiologist.
> 
> Too bad you took out the threads but you have to put your health first. I would love to see someone on pf document the healing process of a thread facelift.


Yes I got the impression that doing it all himself at Fresh may be more about profits than safety. At MVP, all discharge meds are given to you in small dose packets...amoxicillin, Tylenol, H2 blocker along with 3 packets of pumpkin juice to deswell and a tub of pumpkin porridge and antibiotic ointment. All this is included in their surgery price but at Fresh, the translator suggested I give her my cc while I was in theatre so she could buy my postop meds with it! I thought but I am paying Fresh 4.4 million won for breast FT and you want me to buy my own compression garment and postop meds? I am glad I cancelled. I felt more like a kerching to the clinic than a person. At Mvp, the translator Anna stayed with me and interpreted, held my hand, kept trying to make me smile as I was so tearful at forgetting my problem with foreign bodies, and she stayed late to 11 pm to keep me company in recovery and take me home before she headed home herself! This service was all included in their competitively low price for foreigners!

Another girl ended up getting 3 threads on each side with her v line yesterday at another clinic after seeing my initial TL results and she was in +++ postop pain just like I was! I guess combining a tightening TL with a procedure that causes swelling, is not a good idea in terms of postop pain. Usually the first day after an operation is the best indicator of the results before swelling occurs day 2 and peaks at day 3. But as TLs are temporary, dependent on the dissolving rate of the thread, it really is just a pit stop before smas FL.

I am trying the other option and that is more fat to replace loss of lower facial volume to lift. This too is a pit stop before FL as we continue to move our mouths daily and this increases fat graft reabsorption. I am on day 5 now and swollen and bruised being asked “what happened?” My reply...I fell. Lol. Well I could even try I fell flat on my face?!


----------



## MissOrange

jeejee65 said:


> Wow you do really look 20's! so natural.


Thanks @jeejee65. Yep, using my own natural thigh fat to plump up an ageing face. Lol


----------



## jeejee65

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @jeejee65. Yep, using my own natural thigh fat to plump up an ageing face. Lol


 I mean, I've always wanted some fats removed from my thighs so that will be just like catching two birds with one stone ! I am really happy for you !


----------



## ALICEL

MissOrange said:


> As I walked out of Fresh I thought I am 5 minutes walk from mvp and starved since 9 am so why not see if I can get breast FT later today or tomorrow. MVP had quoted me 3 million when I had enquired months earlier asking prices around the uk, europe and korea.
> 
> The manager Ellen was off that Friday and a new consultant told me Dr Seo did not do breast FT but Dr Hyun did. Alas both had full op lists for Friday and Saturday.
> 
> At this point I started thinking well my lower face could use some fg top up as imo ulthera may have caused fg loss to my lower face. So I asked to see Dr Seo for lower face fg top up.
> 
> I waited and in between surgeries I had a minute with him. He assessed my face and like View, Namu and Girin said I needed a lift. He suggested full face fg with threadlifting. As I hero worship Dr Seo for rejuvenating my old eyes and for correcting DA's fg, I trusted him 100% and said yes, yes anything Dr Seo says.
> 
> I bargained hard on the price as Ellen was not there so staff did not know about my loyalty customer discount or multiple procedure discount.
> 
> I managed to get the threadlift quote down from 3 to 2 million which matched Namu's quote for threadlift for me ie 2 million or 4 threads. I never even asked Dr Seo how many threads and just assumed it would be 4 total. I must say I waa influenced by meeting a young man who had just had threadlift elsewhere and what just 1 thread on each side did to lift after mini v line sagging.
> 
> Dr Seo approved the addition to the end of the day list and I went to theatre shortly thereafter. I couldn't believe I had managed to get same day surgery with 2-3 hours notice!


Are you in Korea atm? Add me on kakao alicewonders


----------



## MissOrange

ALICEL said:


> Are you in Korea atm? Add me on kakao alicewonders


Hi @ALICEL I am back in the UK. There are open 2020 plastic surgery kakao groups you may join. I met wonderful new friends in Korea this way.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 7 post full face fat graft and as I am finally deswelling I put on makeup today for my reveal. It took longer to deswell as I had had threads placed and removed. I was curious to see if my face lifted with fg alone. Here is my best shot...


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Day 7 post full face fat graft and as I am finally deswelling I put on makeup today for my reveal. It took longer to deswell as I had had threads placed and removed. I was curious to see if my face lifted with fg alone. Here is my best shot...


@MissOrange Wow. You are looking good!!!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Wow. You are looking good!!!


Thanks @Fortunecat. I think to fit in better with the Brits I shall wear a curtain fringe to hide the round forehead. I bought Korean contact lenses Hologram brand in tear pearl sky gray and they make my eyes look naturally blue gray! Still managing to look 20s! It is now at a point where even I do not believe my real age.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on age related facial bone loss. As I turn 60 in 6.5 years it occurred to me that I may finally have a small face with age-related bone loss. But this suggests then that this may be the cause of extensive facial wrinkling and sagging in persons over 60 from excess loose skin with osteoporotic bone reduction, worse in small postmenopausal women than men whose bigger facial bones buy them time! The older facial bone photo looks like the after of a zygoma and v line facial contouring operation.

What happens to young persons who get these dramatic jaw reductions in their 20s when they reach 60? They won't have much bone left to support their teeth after 30%+ is lost with ageing? Does that mean they will need repeated fat grafts, threadlifts or smas FL to lift the loose saggy skin from bone reduction for the next 40 years? Do we see any 60 yo who has had dramatic facial contouring surgery in her 20s to see what happens? Will drastic FC surgery expedite ageing? Food for thought.


----------



## yunggrandpa

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Fortunecat. I think to fit in better with the Brits I shall wear a curtain fringe to hide the round forehead. I bought Korean contact lenses Hologram brand in tear pearl sky gray and they make my eyes look naturally blue gray! Still managing to look 20s! It is now at a point where even I do not believe my real age.



You look absolutely adorable with the bangs! Love it (though your forehead is just fine imo)!


----------



## MissOrange

yunggrandpa said:


> You look absolutely adorable with the bangs! Love it (though your forehead is just fine imo)!


Thanks @yunggrandpa! I bet you look very young too based on your handle.


----------



## yunggrandpa

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @yunggrandpa! I bet you look very young too based on your handle.



Aww, thank you! I'm just in my 20s though so I'll have to find out later on haha  I must say though, it blows my mind how good you look - I could barely believe your age. Just amazing.


----------



## ohheycap95

MissOrange said:


> Day 7 post full face fat graft and as I am finally deswelling I put on makeup today for my reveal. It took longer to deswell as I had had threads placed and removed. I was curious to see if my face lifted with fg alone. Here is my best shot...


you look amazing! wow, really great result


----------



## DANIELLEANGEL

At 7 days you are still very swollen - favorable swelling from even a small amount of fat transfer lasts 3-6 months.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post highlights the risks of plastic surgery in Korea as we read of yet another patient death. Sadly a 35 yo HK lady died during liposuction at a clinic near Sinsadong yesterday. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=282646

How can one die from liposuction? 1. If propofol iv is injected without access to a ventilator and the patient stops breathing like the late Michael Jackson. 2. With massive blood loss from extensive liposuction, the patient may go into cardiac arrest. 3. If combined with fat transfer, a pulmonary embolism may occur if fat is injected into a blood vessel.

The risk of surgery in an outpatient surgery clinic has been highlighted before with lack of resuscitation equipment or ventilator as one finds in a large hospital. The risk of larger hospitals is the use of shadow doctors or even dentists who may not even be board certified and may be paid a mere 500-700,000 krw per case. 

With patient deaths, Korean fines realised have only been in the region of a mere 300,000 krw as death by negligence is not classified as murder in Korea nor is it recognised but instead the doctor may be charged with fraud, ie use of a shadow. http://www.newpolice.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=106

Prices are cheaper in outpatient surgery clinics as often times iv sedation is administered by a nurse or doctor himself. If you are lucky you may get a qualified anaesthetist but with ratios of anaesthetist to doctor often 1:3 or more in small clinics, the one anaesthetist is usually sitting in on cases requiring general anaesthesia. In Korea it is common for mask general anaesthesia with nitrous oxide and oxygen which can be unpleasant to inhale before drifting to sleep. In the UK they use iv propofol then intubate while asleep so it is less unpleasant and the ratio of anaesthetist to surgeon is 1:1, ie every case, whether twilight iv or GA, has an attendant anaesthetist present at all times. In the UK and US, prep is done while the patient is asleep. In Korea I have been strapped to the theatre table awake and prepped with cold disinfectant over my face and body. This part is unpleasant and could be avoided if they put the patient to sleep first as in the UK.

There is also a difference in postop analgaesia. In Korea they do not give opiates like cocodamol or tramadol but only tylenol/paracetamol. You may wish to bring voltarol/diclofenac with you (swallow with milk to neutralise stomach acid and do mot take if you suffer from asthma or have a bleeding problem) when you fly to korea but narcotics like codeine are not permitted into korea. This means you may face agonising postop pain when recovering from rib cartilage extraction for rib rhino, extensive liposuction or even worse for bone facial contouring when on simple tylenol.

In Korea patients report intense throat pain after general anaesthesia like a knife cutting into their throat. This could be due to mucosal injury from forced intubation with the endotracheal tube, ie intubating roughly. In the US postop pain relief is adequate to provide analgaesia to cover any mucosal injury.

In cases of surgical complications, it may be nigh impossible to fly back to address the concern so the additional cost to fix in your own country should be taken into account in patients who fly overseas for plastic surgery.

For those who have never had general anaesthesia, there is a risk just like for young people running their first marathon, that a hereditary heart condition may be present and undiagnosed like IHSS or cardiomyopathy or valvular heart disease. Often times this is not picked up on ecgs and may require an echocardiogram or stress ecg test. Neither are done in korea as preop assessments and some may even forego a chest x ray and ecg in young patients. I would not recommend GA in Korea in a small clinic if it is your first time. Check with your family and relatived for any family history of heart problems.

Hope others can chime in their thoughts. For now I shall stick to plastic surgery in the UK or Belgium where I know I have a dedicated anaesthetist even for iv sedation. I think the wake up call was when I was asked to sign a consent form for iv propofol, midazolam and ketamine and told the doctor himself would administer and that there was no anaesthetist. It cost me my 400,000 krw deposit at a clinic near Sinsadong to cancel the surgery 10 minutes before I was scheduled for breast fat transfer but at least I did not risk my life unnecessarily.


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange
This lady who had FL with the Belgian had her ops in September 2017 and April 2018. She gave good reviews for both on RS.

On 26th June 2019 she says that, "I had a modified macs facelift 3months ago but still have bruising on my cheeks and bunching under the skin.. Will it go? Also when I speak my mouth pulls down to the side and it makes me look sad. It looks like the muscles haven't been lifted upwards. I had fat transfer to the face at the same time, also have pouches at the corners of my mouth which look strange. I'm really embarrassed and am aware of my family staring at me."

She could be referring to the same Belgian ops or a new FL a few months later. Either way it doesn't look good. Amongst the comment sections, there is talk that people are threatened if they leave negative reviews and people complaining that bad reviews disappear on there. Maybe trolls maybe not.

Have you met any ex patients in real life who have had FL with the Belgian that have lasted more than a year?


----------



## kaixin05

MissOrange said:


> Day 7 post full face fat graft and as I am finally deswelling I put on makeup today for my reveal. It took longer to deswell as I had had threads placed and removed. I was curious to see if my face lifted with fg alone. Here is my best shot...



ms orange I wonder where do you do your usual full face fg? Im considering to try. However I still have some QO filler left on my forehead and temples (5months old) do u think its ok to do fg at this moment?


----------



## kaixin05

@MissOrange I would like to get your advise wether I need a zygoma reduction or just tweak it by hidding it with fat. My friends told me I look better when my face has fat coz when i loose weight thats where it shows my big bony cheekbone. Here’s my xray for your reference. Sorry to bother u i just wanted to know your opinion


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Today's post highlights the risks of plastic surgery in Korea as we read of yet another patient death. Sadly a 35 yo HK lady died during liposuction at a clinic near Sinsadong yesterday. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.amp.asp?newsIdx=282646



RIP. How tragic and eerie considering the timing of this given your own decision to pass on getting work done due to the anaesthesia practices of that clinic. I hope it comes out which clinic this was, while I know they have laws in Korea that suppress this information nothing is stopping a Chinese news source from reporting it right? If the clinic has been spread through word of mouth, please let me know.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> This lady who had FL with the Belgian had her ops in September 2017 and April 2018. She gave good reviews for both on RS.
> 
> On 26th June 2019 she says that, "I had a modified macs facelift 3months ago but still have bruising on my cheeks and bunching under the skin.. Will it go? Also when I speak my mouth pulls down to the side and it makes me look sad. It looks like the muscles haven't been lifted upwards. I had fat transfer to the face at the same time, also have pouches at the corners of my mouth which look strange. I'm really embarrassed and am aware of my family staring at me."
> 
> She could be referring to the same Belgian ops or a new FL a few months later. Either way it doesn't look good. Amongst the comment sections, there is talk that people are threatened if they leave negative reviews and people complaining that bad reviews disappear on there. Maybe trolls maybe not.
> 
> Have you met any ex patients in real life who have had FL with the Belgian that have lasted more than a year?


Thank you for this. I shall try to postpone smas FL to age 60 if possible.


----------



## MissOrange

kaixin05 said:


> ms orange I wonder where do you do your usual full face fg? Im considering to try. However I still have some QO filler left on my forehead and temples (5months old) do u think its ok to do fg at this moment?


I had my last 2 full face fat grafts at MVP clinic with Dr HyoSeok Seo. He did my eyelid fg and upper bleph in 2016 and I tried his full face fg in 2018 with top up last month.


----------



## MissOrange

kaixin05 said:


> @MissOrange I would like to get your advise wether I need a zygoma reduction or just tweak it by hidding it with fat. My friends told me I look better when my face has fat coz when i loose weight thats where it shows my big bony cheekbone. Here’s my xray for your reference. Sorry to bother u i just wanted to know your opinion
> View attachment 4654062


Hi @kaixin05 I can see how fat covers the side protruding zygoma and how it would become obvious and bony if you lost weight. Side zygoma reduction would help but you would then also need a lifting procedure. If you are okay with not losing weight, then a full face looks younger. From my research it looks like all bone cutting procedures lead to sagging and the need for annual threadlifts or smas FL.


----------



## kaixin05

MissOrange said:


> Hi @kaixin05 I can see how fat covers the side protruding zygoma and how it would become obvious and bony if you lost weight. Side zygoma reduction would help but you would then also need a lifting procedure. If you are okay with not losing weight, then a full face looks younger. From my research it looks like all bone cutting procedures lead to sagging and the need for annual threadlifts or smas FL.



thank you ms orange for your words of wisdom! this means a lot to me! I love reading your comments and kcouture’s!


----------



## MissOrange

Day 17 post second full face fg at MVP with Dr Hyoseok Seo. First full face fg with him was in Feb 2018. Yay! I have avoided threadlift and smas FL by gaining weight and topping up my fg. I am way too scared of a smas FL leaving me with a too tight or wind tunnel look or accentuating my wide cheekbones so this was the correct move. Now no more fg top ups I hope. I turn 60 in just over 6 years time and will face the next hurdle in trying to look 20s. lol. Excuse the 2 bruises still on my face, under the right eye and left nasolabial. I don't have a concealer other than my shiseido i20 foundation. I am not wearing my false eyelash strip or coloured contacts so you can concentrate on the round fg forehead and the lifted face with smooth jawline from fg alone.


----------



## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> Day 17 post second full face fg at MVP with Dr Hyoseok Seo. First full face fg with him was in Feb 2018. Yay! I have avoided threadlift and smas FL by gaining weight and topping up my fg. I am way too scared of a smas FL leaving me with a too tight or wind tunnel look or accentuating my wide cheekbones so this was the correct move. Now no more fg top ups I hope. I turn 60 in just over 6 years time and will face the next hurdle in trying to look 20s. lol. Excuse the 2 bruises still on my face. I don't have a concealer other than my shiseido i20 foundation. I am not wearing my false eyelash strip or coloured contacts so you can concentrate on the round fg forehead and the lifted face with smooth jawline.


You look amazing 
May I ask what kind of skincare products do you use ? What is your skin routine to get such a good skin ?


----------



## kaixin05

kaixin05 said:


> thank you ms orange for your words of wisdom! this means a lot to me! I love reading your comments and kcouture’s!



ms orange can you mix fillers with fg? I meant I had prior fillers under my eyes and QO fill plus on my forehead and temples. Consultant said if I put fg on top of it it would make lumps after some time. I want know your thoughts about it.

Also, have you ever considered doing QO fill rather than fg? I heard kcouture switched to that long time ago.


----------



## MissOrange

kaixin05 said:


> ms orange can you mix fillers with fg? I meant I had prior fillers under my eyes and QO fill plus on my forehead and temples. Consultant said if I put fg on top of it it would make lumps after some time. I want know your thoughts about it.
> 
> Also, have you ever considered doing QO fill rather than fg? I heard kcouture switched to that long time ago.


Hi @kaixin05 I am not familiar with QO fill. I had a bit of radiesse dermal filler left in my right nasolabial fold but that did not affect the fg he injected. You could ask if the filler needs dissolving before fg on the clinic kakao. Kcouture looks amazing too. I need to google QO fill plus to read more about it.


----------



## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> You look amazing
> May I ask what kind of skincare products do you use ? What is your skin routine to get such a good skin ?


Hi @Pakune, I know koreans are really into their skin routine and have amazing skin care products in Korea but I stick to the basics. Skin needs hydration which means keep drinking still water throughout the day. My daughter's skin now glows as she carries water with her everywhere she goes. I also replaced her makeup brushes and makeup so this helped prevent acne returning. Acne is simply a bacterial infection of the skin. Doxycycline is a great antibiotic that clears severe acne.

I moisturise every morning with any face moisturiser after I cleanse with Clinique's 7 day scrub exfoliating cleanser. And for foundation use Shiseido i20 which is the best shade for Asian yellow pigmented skin in my opinion. And that is all. No primer, no concealer, no chemical peels, no face masks, no laser, and no dermabrasion.


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> RIP. How tragic and eerie considering the timing of this given your own decision to pass on getting work done due to the anaesthesia practices of that clinic. I hope it comes out which clinic this was, while I know they have laws in Korea that suppress this information nothing is stopping a Chinese news source from reporting it right? If the clinic has been spread through word of mouth, please let me know.


I agree @Gats, the name of the clinic should be revealed to protect the public. I don't know why Korean news journalists are not allowed to reveal the name. I hope it does come out in naver comments or forums. How else will the clinic be held to account and improve their practices? Often the doctor may only be given a 300,000 won fine which is under $300 and certainly no deterrent to causing death by medical negligence.

Looks liks even Dr Ho Chiu-ming, president of the Hong Kong Society of Plastic, Reconstructive and Aesthetic Surgeons, said "falling into a coma during liposuction, which is regarded as a relatively low-risk medical procedure, usually involves complications related to anaesthesia." He eerily cites excessive anaesthetic drug dosage as a possible cause of the patient drifting into a coma and dying during liposuction! I thank my guardian angels for filling me with visions of anaesthetic death on the surgery table from iv propofol administered with no anaesthetist and respiratory arrest that made me grab my clothes from the locker, change back into my street clothes, leave my patient room and go back to reception to cancel my operation at 14:50, 10 minutes before I was to be taken into theatre.


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange 
Dr Seo agreed to TL along with your the FG. 
Was it because of lack of time both of you decided against FL?
I remember you posting that Ellen warned that there may be risk that  FL may last only a year with thinner skinned patients.

Also a heads up, you mentioned a place in Tunbridge Wells for a potential FL. Same story as the Belgian. 100% great reviews but again on closer inspection, there are complaints in the comment section, can't tell who is trolling whom though lol


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> Dr Seo agreed to TL along with your the FG.
> Was it because of lack of time both of you decided against FL?
> I remember you posting that Ellen warned that there may be risk that  FL may last only a year with thinner skinned patients.
> 
> Also a heads up, you mentioned a place in Tunbridge Wells for a potential FL. Same story as the Belgian. 100% great reviews but again on closer inspection, there are complaints in the comment section, can't tell who is trolling whom though lol


Hi @seoulsister,

It was all a bit chaotic on my part. I was starved since 9 am for breast FT at Fresh for 3 pm and when I cancelled at 2:50 pm, I took a turn to the left to go to mvp to ask them to do my breast FT as they have an anaesthetist. But when I got there I was then told Dr Seo does not do breast FT, that Dr Hyun does it but both have full theatre lists but I could still consult with Seo. So I thought why not then just ask for lower face fg top up. I waited to see Dr Seo in between surgeries. The interpreter said he suggested TL and full face fg with botox. I never thought of TL so had forgotten I react to suture material left in even after a few days and pdo is left in for 6 months until it dissolves. My flight home was in 3 days time. He was fully booked that Friday and Saturday but stayed late Friday to accommodate me. Staff did not go home until 11 pm while I was in recovery. I felt so bad for putting them in this predicament of everyone staying late on my behalf. Then to make the clinic stay open past its closing time on Saturday to add me on for removal of TL just shows you how this clinic bends over backwards to make patients happy. I kept apologising for wasting people's time as I had forgotten I cannot have threads due to my allergic contact dermatitis and immune reaction to foreign bodies. It was a costly mistake on my part to have forgotten as I had paid 2 million won for TL and 500,000 won for removal under local. I try to look at it from a positive point of view, ie now I know how I might look with a FL.

I had shortened my trip to korea to 5 days as a holiday rather than getting ps after I cancelled zygoma reduction at Regen and collected 90% of my deposit back in cash. Booking breast FT was on an impulse as was TL. But now I am back in the UK I still want breast FT. I sent my breast photos to my original implant en bloc removal surgeon in Birmingham and he also suggests I need fat grafting to correct the asymmetry and loss of volume more so on the right breast. Dr Hong at Fresh had called it an adhesion on the right causing the pull and loss of shape which he was about to fill with fg. I wish he had had an anaesthetist then I would have had it done by now. Sigh.

I have made an appointment to see Mr David Floyd in London for breast FT. Here they charge £250 for a consult and I have to wait to April to see him as he is fully booked even for consults. In Korea all consults are free. If he says I am too skinny for FT like Dario Rochira said then that leaves Bednar in North Carolina who specialises in skimming fat in skinny ladies for breast FT but $11k is £8.6k.


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange
I am sorry to hear about all the stress you were put through but in the end judging by your recent photos, the results have turned out well. Dr Seo is definitely one of the good guys and would do his best to help you. You have come out ahead in this situation so you are right to be positive.

Do you have any advice for ladies who suffer from eczema/contact dermatitis and how to keep it in remission? Because from my own experience western medicine's approach ie steroid creams etc is not healthy long term, do you use a more holistic approach?


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> I am sorry to hear about all the stress you were put through but in the end judging by your recent photos, the results have turned out well. Dr Seo is definitely one of the good guys and would do his best to help you. You have come out ahead in this situation so you are right to be positive.
> 
> Do you have any advice for ladies who suffer from eczema/contact dermatitis and how to keep it in remission? Because from my own experience western medicine's approach ie steroid creams etc is not healthy long term, do you use a more holistic approach?


Hi @seoulsister I am glad you ask. Big Pharma make huge profits from selling creams and barrier ointments for eczema to the NHS when it is a man made condition! It is simply an allergy to synthetic fibres as synthetic clothes are made in factories using harsh chemicals! Once you understand this, it means cutting off synthetic neck labels and inside garment labels as this chafes against the skin and causes nape of neck eczema or itching along the side of the body where the side synthetic fabric label is, even if the fabric of the item of clothing is itself cotton. Always ensure the first layer of clothing against your skin is natural, ie wool, cashmere, linen, cotton or silk. This applies to bedding too. Then if you want to wear polyester, acrylic, viscose, polyamide, etc. on top you can but make sure it does not make any skin contact. School uniforms are often made of synthetic material so children complain of itching in the elbow and knee flexural creases as this is where the material is pressed against the skin so flares up. The rash clears once exposure to the allergen ceases.

I saw many babies in prams, cots or wrapped in synthetic blankets or pressed up against mum’s synthetic clothing come out with eczema over their cheeks/faces. I feel sorry for babies who have eczema who are put in synthetic onesies, torture for them. People prone to eczema tend to be from countries where synthetic clothing is not as available as it is in the West, ie Asia and Africa. It is genetic so children are more likely to inherit this from their parents too. I call it having Princess in the Pea fairy tale skin, ie very sensitive to cheap, synthetic material.

As suture material is often made from synthetic material, this means our atopic eczematous skin heals much faster as it reacts to the sutures. My wounds tend to close and heal in 1-2 days and not a week so I am forever taking out my own sutures before my body starts reacting violently against them.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> Dr Seo agreed to TL along with your the FG.
> Was it because of lack of time both of you decided against FL?
> I remember you posting that Ellen warned that there may be risk that  FL may last only a year with thinner skinned patients.
> 
> Also a heads up, you mentioned a place in Tunbridge Wells for a potential FL. Same story as the Belgian. 100% great reviews but again on closer inspection, there are complaints in the comment section, can't tell who is trolling whom though lol


Hi @seoulsister, I have reread your helpful posts and you are right! I had chatted with kitty before she had her FL with Amir as I was going for a consult around the time she was getting or got her FL and was shocked to read today that her concept smas FL under local did not last 6 months! https://www.realself.com/review/i-m-concept-facelift-20th-july-excited-nervous
He charges around £6-7k! I then did some more probing and it is not just his FLs, but others also report smas FL not lasting and in one case an American mentions only 2 months done in USA! Ellen, the manager at MVP was right when she warned me that a smas FL may only last 1 year and she did not recommend in me as I have thin skin. She had also refused me full face fat graft in 2016 and I foolishly got it done elsewhere at DA. The problem with full face fat graft is that it is less likely to last in the lower face due to the mouth moving so much. The more fat put in to stretch the skin, the more lax it may become if the fat reabsorbs and foolishly I have had 5 full face grafts. Even Ellen was surprised I asked for another full face fat graft. She was not at work the Friday I paid for full face FG and threads else she would have talked some sense into me. Sigh. She is such a wise gatekeeper who has seen it all. So ladies stick to dermal fillers for your lower face. I am not sure what happens to the skin with annual thread lifts. Sounds like there is no permanent solution.

I had booked a consult with Dr O for FL on Sunday and was all gung ho about getting a FL but now, I realise I need to do more extensive research to find anyone whose FL lasted more than a year?! Whoever you are @seoulsister you have saved my face and money!


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange 
You have helped many ladies on here so I am glad to help.

A normal smas Fl requires GA and a certain amount of time to heal so when Tunbridge says it only requires local and a shorter recovery, it seems that it is less invasive than a normal FL but maybe less effective. I'm only guessing but I won't take a chance on him.

A surgeon can overrule a manager so if he thought it was appropriate to have another FG then I wouldn't sweat it. I think it has made you more youthful. You might have hit upon the best solution for your face ie FG if TL brings on eczema and FL is not effective if you can't find a surgeon who is confident their FL will last longer than a year.

 When you had an x-ray recently, where exactly were the dermal fillers? There was a thread on here a couple of months ago where an American Dr showed on an x-ray that dermal fillers don't actually melt. They migrate. South. Yikes

Would it be too cheeky to ask the Belgian if you can meet any of his FL patients who have had it longer than a year that was successful? Say you are willing to meet his prospective patients inquiring about arm lipo in return to meet his Fl patients lol


----------



## keiratony

I had 83 cc of fat in 2010, it lasted about 2 years. i topped up with filler. 

This year when I asked for more fat, 3/4 surgeons turned me down. They said it was exactly what I needed but I was too thin for the harvest and it would not last. The people who get the best results from fat graft will already have a lot of fat in their faces with a rich blood supply. Also they said it would be a complete waste of effort in the temples and jaw since there are not as many blood vessels there. The fourth doctor is wiling to do it but he wants to use sedation whereas I prefer local (way cheaper).

I've also been turned down for high SMAS by nearly every doctor who says there is nothing to lift, that it would be a waste of time, money, and trauma, and that I would want another in 5 years. The only area where I have laxity is sides of mouth, but they say that will be the first place that the laxity returns. Also a problem with doing it early is that you inevitably want a second lift and the second is more difficult to pull off as it becomes hard for the surgeon to find appropriate landmarks on the face. The result is almost always obviously unnatural.

Only one doctor I saw live was willing to do high SMAS now due to my platysma starting to separate at the upper part of the neck, but when I pressed him he suggested only filler for now.

The best high SMAS guy in the world is Timothy Marten but he is not cheap. Perhaps you should get his advice. I did, and he was willing to do the lift, but he is used to working on women as young as early 30s. Most other surgeons seem repulsed by working on a patient who is not overtly saggy.


----------



## keiratony

also write to James Stuzin in Miami, see if he can suggest a colleague in South Korea for the high SMAS with greatest longevity. Dr. Marten does a very aggressive one that will last at least seven years but he is based in San Francisco.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> You have helped many ladies on here so I am glad to help.
> 
> A normal smas Fl requires GA and a certain amount of time to heal so when Tunbridge says it only requires local and a shorter recovery, it seems that it is less invasive than a normal FL but maybe less effective. I'm only guessing but I won't take a chance on him.
> 
> A surgeon can overrule a manager so if he thought it was appropriate to have another FG then I wouldn't sweat it. I think it has made you more youthful. You might have hit upon the best solution for your face ie FG if TL brings on eczema and FL is not effective if you can't find a surgeon who is confident their FL will last longer than a year.
> 
> When you had an x-ray recently, where exactly were the dermal fillers? There was a thread on here a couple of months ago where an American Dr showed on an x-ray that dermal fillers don't actually melt. They migrate. South. Yikes
> 
> Would it be too cheeky to ask the Belgian if you can meet any of his FL patients who have had it longer than a year that was successful? Say you are willing to meet his prospective patients inquiring about arm lipo in return to meet his Fl patients lol


Thanks again @seoulsister! Dr Oh commented on filler still being present in my right nasolabial fold in Feb 2018. I can still feel it there now..small peasized lump. I never thought to see if it is still there on last month's x rays.

Great idea to ask for a FL pt of Dr O's to chat with! Will make a reminder note for Sunday.

I suspect smas FLs that only last 6 months may be due to the internal pdo suture holding up the smas dissolving by 6 months. https://www.acufirm.de/index.php?seite=282


----------



## MissOrange

keiratony said:


> I had 83 cc of fat in 2010, it lasted about 2 years. i topped up with filler.
> 
> This year when I asked for more fat, 3/4 surgeons turned me down. They said it was exactly what I needed but I was too thin for the harvest and it would not last. The people who get the best results from fat graft will already have a lot of fat in their faces with a rich blood supply. Also they said it would be a complete waste of effort in the temples and jaw since there are not as many blood vessels there. The fourth doctor is wiling to do it but he wants to use sedation whereas I prefer local (way cheaper).
> 
> I've also been turned down for high SMAS by nearly every doctor who says there is nothing to lift, that it would be a waste of time, money, and trauma, and that I would want another in 5 years. The only area where I have laxity is sides of mouth, but they say that will be the first place that the laxity returns. Also a problem with doing it early is that you inevitably want a second lift and the second is more difficult to pull off as it becomes hard for the surgeon to find appropriate landmarks on the face. The result is almost always obviously unnatural.
> 
> Only one doctor I saw live was willing to do high SMAS now due to my platysma starting to separate at the upper part of the neck, but when I pressed him he suggested only filler for now.
> 
> The best high SMAS guy in the world is Timothy Marten but he is not cheap. Perhaps you should get his advice. I did, and he was willing to do the lift, but he is used to working on women as young as early 30s. Most other surgeons seem repulsed by working on a patient who is not overtly saggy.


@keiratony sounds like we are in the same boat, relying on fat graft for facial volume and lift and not yet finding someone for a FL that will last. A FL lasting 7 years sounds good but when you say Dr Marten is not cheap, I shudder to think of US ps prices. What do you think of Kao's ponytail lift? He posts a lot on instagram. 

So it looks like the maximum longevity of a smas FL is 7 years under GA but that is the exception. Hm. I am back to wearing my head compression bandage at night. It helps I think.


----------



## MissOrange

I have been researching threadlifts and see why PDO threads may not last for more than 6 months. If they are used to pull up the smas layer in a FL under local, then it may explain why a Fl fails at 6 months too. They should not be sold to last 1 year.

PLLA is the chemical in silhouette threads and sold to last 18 months. I wonder how long poly lactic acid threads actually last. 

It seems the risk of side effects and complications of threads outweighs a temporary fix for 6 months at £1400-£2k. https://www.miloclinic.com/why-i-do-not-perform-treatments-using-thread-lifts


----------



## MissOrange

I found a 1 y 2 months postop FL on instagram! Dr Dirk Kremer does FLs under GA. I need to ring for pricing. I rang up Dr Paul Tulley's office as he too has good b+a FL photos on RS and he charges £9k for FL. As the prices are out of my budget, I am sticking to gaining weight (now up to 98.2 lbs) and wearing my head compression bandage to bed. My goal is to have a V line face without paying for a smas FL! Goals!


----------



## keiratony

MissOrange said:


> What do you think of Kao's ponytail lift?



not much. his prices are stratospheric. marten, however, is a true master.


----------



## Missynlulu

Wow Miss Orange, seems Dr Kirk Marten is very good.  Did you manage to find out how much he charge for FL?




MissOrange said:


> I found a 1 y 2 months postop FL on instagram! Dr Dirk Kremer does FLs under GA. I need to ring for pricing. I rang up Dr Paul Tulley's office as he too has good b+a FL photos on RS and he charges £9k for FL. As the prices are out of my budget, I am sticking to gaining weight (now up to 98.2 lbs) and wearing my head compression bandage to bed. My goal is to have a V line face without paying for a smas FL! Goals!


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange
https://www.realself.com/review/face-lift-face-neck-lift-not-for-the-faint-hearted

This lady talks about Tunbridge vs Dirk Bogarde (lol)  so it is quite interesting. He seems more expensive £10K +
It's a long read so not sure if she has anything with the FL?

PS FL and neck
OMG Hi it was £13,400


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> https://www.realself.com/review/face-lift-face-neck-lift-not-for-the-faint-hearted
> 
> This lady talks about Tunbridge vs Dirk Bogarde (lol)  so it is quite interesting. He seems more expensive £10K +
> It's a long read so not sure if she has anything with the FL?
> 
> PS FL and neck
> OMG Hi it was £13,400


Yes this lady was also featured in the DM tabloid for her amazing FL but the RS review only goes up to 3.5 months back in Nov 2019. Would love to see how it is at 1 year. Her RS price she paid says over £10k! I realised £9-10k is way over my budget for a FL that may last between 1 and 5 years.

I cancelled my Dr O appointment for Sunday as I am using natural weight gain to lift my lower face and it is making a difference and emailed my Feb 11 selfie as proof to Dr O. See the attached photo of my saggy lower face Feb 6 (forgot to hydrate that day and had only 250 mls of water) vs Feb 11 after gaining 1.8 lbs and fully hydrated. I forgot back in Aug 2018 that when my lower face got saggy, I gained weight back up to 100 lbs and my face lifted and Dr Amir saw both photos and asked if I had lost weight and how I did not need a FL now. I said no I had gained weight. I will take full face selfies tomorrow for Valentine's day, ie one month post FG + slight tissue trauma from next day thread removal. Trying to gain weight back up to 99 lbs, my wedding day weight to get rid of the small right jowl. I am at 97.8 lbs from 95/96 so getting there. @dannythedragon told me back in 2018 I looked better at 100 lbs than 96. He too gained 5 lbs and his fg looks much nicer. My fear is that there is a fine line between 99 lbs still looking good vs 100.1 lbs looking like a balloon face from fg. As I have said in the past fat graft is truly high maintenance as one needs to monitor weight and fluid intake daily.


----------



## krod2017

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Fortunecat. I think to fit in better with the Brits I shall wear a curtain fringe to hide the round forehead. I bought Korean contact lenses Hologram brand in tear pearl sky gray and they make my eyes look naturally blue gray! Still managing to look 20s! It is now at a point where even I do not believe my real age.


You are beautiful!


----------



## MissOrange

As promised here is my one month post 5th full face fg (2nd at mvp) at 99.2 lbs. Yes I ate twice as much! I do not need anymore fat graft. I cancelled my consult with Dr O for smas FL. He saw my photo from 3 days ago and suggested annual threadlift at 850 euros which makes him even cheaper than the UK at £1.4k or Korea at 2 million won! But my contact dermatitis does not allow for foreign bodies so I will just try to maintain my weight.

Surprisingly my application for k pop academy in London was approved! I guess I look young! lol.


----------



## seoulsister

Dear MissOrange 
Looking great. For the sake of consistency could you also post from your usual angles front on and the sides?
Thx


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> Dear MissOrange
> Looking great. For the sake of consistency could you also post from your usual angles front on and the sides?
> Thx


Hi @seoulsister

Here is a collage taken yesterday at 99.2 lbs which is 3-4 lbs more than what I weighed in Korea a month ago prior to full face fg. It is important to gain weight post facial fg to ensure the longevity of the fat grafted cells in my opinion.


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange
Thank you for that. You are beautiful never forget that.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> Thank you for that. You are beautiful never forget that.


Thanks @seoulsister. I still have minor marionette lines but I am too scared of reacting to synthetic threads so will leave my face alone. I realised the quickest way to gain weight is to eat chocolate (loaded in calories)! Now I need to stop myself eating chocolates! My next task is to not stand out too much at the k pop academy next Saturday. I will need to dress like a high school kid with trainers, k pop black baseball cap, t shirt and jeans! The application form asked for school and year/form and the consent form asked for parents’ signature, lol. The application did ask for dob so I was truthful and put NA (not applicable) under school and year. Lol. The problem will be when classmates ask me how old I am? What the heck do I say?


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange 
I think the important thing is to make sure you don't hurt yourself, dancing classes caused me sciatica lol


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @MissOrange
> I think the important thing is to make sure you don't hurt yourself, dancing classes caused me sciatica lol


Omg I am too old for dancing! Lol. The academy will teach me everything Korean! I get to learn how to write Korean calligraphy, watch Korean films about the war, learn taekwondo from a Korean master, learn how to apply Korean makeup, yes learn choreography and do a dance off, do a hanbok fashion show, cook Korean food for graduation, be filmed and photographed for social media, etc. I am so lucky to have made the cut as apparently there is a waiting list too for this academy! The first assignment came through today, ie do a ppt intro presentation for class. I thought, oh no. I am retired so my old laptop is kaput. Then I googled and uploaded free ppt to my iPad! Wow! Homework done. But now I am truly obsessing about my face as no way do I pass for a high school student. Lol.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Omg I am too old for dancing! Lol. The academy will teach me everything Korean! I get to learn how to write Korean calligraphy, watch Korean films about the war, learn taekwondo from a Korean master, learn how to apply Korean makeup, yes learn choreography and do a dance off, do a hanbok fashion show, cook Korean food for graduation, be filmed and photographed for social media, etc. I am so lucky to have made the cut as apparently there is a waiting list too for this academy! The first assignment came through today, ie do a ppt intro presentation for class. I thought, oh no. I am retired so my old laptop is kaput. Then I googled and uploaded free ppt to my iPad! Wow! Homework done. But now I am truly obsessing about my face as no way do I pass for a high school student. Lol.



@MissOrange Oh my! This sounds so exciting! I am thinking of learning Kpop dance to lose weight but never got around doing it as I am scared that I do not have the stamina for it. Maybe I should just go ahead and do it!!!


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange How is your arm lipo results now?


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange How is your arm lipo results now?


Hi @Fortunecat, it has been 6 months since arm lipo and my arms are still skinnier than before lipo. My left arm is 9.5 inches and my right 10.5 inches as of yesterday, which means they are half an inch less in circumference than pre-op. But I am 2 lbs heavier now than pre-op (to help my facial FG thrive), so for my arms to still be thinner than pre-op is amazing! I am so tempted to try mini thigh lift with Dr O next. I keep looking at Dr Bednar’s fb group photos and wondering whether I need fat lipo skimming to build up my post explant breasts. Sigh. Now that my upper arms are sorted, it draws the focus to other areas of the body! Lol


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Oh my! This sounds so exciting! I am thinking of learning Kpop dance to lose weight but never got around doing it as I am scared that I do not have the stamina for it. Maybe I should just go ahead and do it!!!


Go for it @Fortunecat. I tried to learn a k pop dance on IG and recorded it in slow motion! But combining the arms and leg movements is so difficult and I was out of breath after 24 seconds! Lol


----------



## MissOrange

With 5 days to go before I meet my other k pop academy classmates, I am working hard to look like a teenager! lol. Do I go to class with or without makeup? Which makes me look younger?


----------



## seoulsister

both work


----------



## kinto

@MissOrange . New here, first off wanted to say thank you for sharing your experience with surgeries both good and bad in-depth here.  You look absolutely beautiful. 

I had a question- you mentioned you had not so good results from fat grafting previously and that a Dr. at MVP was able to fix?  Did he remove previous fat grafting from your face via excision or microcannula?

I ask because I am trying to find a Dr in Korea who is comfortable with removing fat grafting lumps from a previous surgery.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat, it has been 6 months since arm lipo and my arms are still skinnier than before lipo. My left arm is 9.5 inches and my right 10.5 inches as of yesterday, which means they are half an inch less in circumference than pre-op. But I am 2 lbs heavier now than pre-op (to help my facial FG thrive), so for my arms to still be thinner than pre-op is amazing! I am so tempted to try mini thigh lift with Dr O next. I keep looking at Dr Bednar’s fb group photos and wondering whether I need fat lipo skimming to build up my post explant breasts. Sigh. Now that my upper arms are sorted, it draws the focus to other areas of the body! Lol



@MissOrange  I am tempted to do the mini lipo on my arms. My last visit to Evita Clinic, the surgeon rejected to do the arms lipo for me. Hmm...


----------



## GPR

Miss orange, I feel like you would look much younger if you dyed your hair darker with thinner eyeliner. Love your thread and posts!


----------



## Teina

Better without makeup which is rare - brunette for sure.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange  I am tempted to do the mini lipo on my arms. My last visit to Evita Clinic, the surgeon rejected to do the arms lipo for me. Hmm...


I would highly recommend upper arm lipo @Fortunecat! Especially for batwings. Dr O showed me my preop photos from the back and my upper arms looked much worse from the back! So pleased I can forget about my upper arms and wear sleeveless dresses! The recovery takes time as the tumescent fluid took up to 3 months to reabsorb for me for the final results. Let me find my tv interview photos of my postop arms. These were at 3 months postop.

Now I am obsessing over my inner thighs. 5 fgs liposuctioned from my inner thighs have left the skin saggy and lumpy. I am waiting it out to 3 months for my thighs to heal and then reassess if I need mini thigh lift. I would say don't do lipo more than twice to avoid lumps and saggy skin.


----------



## MissOrange

kinto said:


> @MissOrange . New here, first off wanted to say thank you for sharing your experience with surgeries both good and bad in-depth here.  You look absolutely beautiful.
> 
> I had a question- you mentioned you had not so good results from fat grafting previously and that a Dr. at MVP was able to fix?  Did he remove previous fat grafting from your face via excision or microcannula?
> 
> I ask because I am trying to find a Dr in Korea who is comfortable with removing fat grafting lumps from a previous surgery.


Hi @kinto, welcome to the PF!

I am sorry to hear you have facial fat lumps. My fat graft was fixed by reshaping and placing fg in more strategic sites. No microincisions. Before my face fg left me with a very round face with overfilled cheeks. Dr Seo reshaped my face with fg so it would be more oval. I don't know what he did while I was under, but he made it look fab Feb 2018. This time I have a longer facial recovery as I had the trauma of 6 threads put in and then removed as I was so anxious my immune system would react. Weight gain is helping to slowly get rid of the marionette lines which got worse post thread removal.


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> Better without makeup which is rare - brunette for sure.


Thanks @Teina. If I lived in Korea, I would definitely go back to black or brunette. However living in the UK makes life difficult with dark hair. With blonde hair, no one speaks slowly to me like I was a foreigner or asks me where I am from and cars let me in when I drive or stop so I can cross the road. With dark hair, I felt invisible and if I said good morning when I entered a shop, I would get silence back! And if I went to pay they would serve the person behind me or ask me to go to another till. The UK is definitely biased against foreigners just like Korea is biased against foreigners. lol. In Korea last month I was told to come back in 2 hours as the keb bank was having a lunch break?! I looked at the korean customers being served and thought there is no closed sign? How can a bank be closed for 2 hours if it is only open from 9-4? So I got mad and said 'Jonan hangug saram iyeyo!' The bank staff then said come this way and I was served immediately!  

There is a high price to pay for a year of bleaching, as I have lost 2/3 of the bulk of my hair! I barely have enough hair to put in a ponytail! I am taking daily vitamin D and calcium now to help my hair grow.


----------



## Teina

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Teina. If I lived in Korea, I would definitely go back to black or brunette. However living in the UK makes life difficult with dark hair. With blonde hair, no one speaks slowly to me like I was a foreigner or asks me where I am from and cars let me in when I drive or stop so I can cross the road. With dark hair, I felt invisible and if I said good morning when I entered a shop, I would get silence back! And if I went to pay they would serve the person behind me or ask me to go to another till. The UK is definitely biased against foreigners just like Korea is biased against foreigners. lol. In Korea last month I was told to come back in 2 hours as the keb bank was having a lunch break?! I looked at the korean customers being served and thought there is no closed sign? How can a bank be closed for 2 hours if it is only open from 9-4? So I got mad and said 'Jonan hangug saram iyeyo!' The bank staff then said come this way and I was served immediately!
> 
> There is a high price to pay for a year of bleaching, as I have lost 2/3 of the bulk of my hair! I barely have enough hair to put in a ponytail! I am taking daily vitamin D and calcium now to help my hair grow.


I'm sorry to hear about that, yes the UK is strange. If you came to Jamaica you'd be praised. We love Asians because we think you're beautiful. Have you tried taking collagen for hair growth? The powder form is best, preferably type 1 and 3. But type 1 fish collagen does the magic. You'll see results in 2 months or so. And it's good for skin too as collagen makes up 80% of our skin and we make less after passing the age of 20.


----------



## seoulsister

@MissOrange

You are not the only Asian who has come to the same conclusions.

In 1978 Rod Stewart released an album called "Blondes have more fun"

The original title was "Asian blondes living in the West have more fun" but Rod The Mod couldn't fit all those words on the album cover lol
So long as you don't bu**er up your hair with all the bleach


----------



## kinto

MissOrange said:


> Hi @kinto, welcome to the PF!



Thanks @MissOrange !  Thanks for your reply, I was able to talk to MVP yesterday and they unfotunately said they did not have expertise to help me due to the 'complexity'.  They recommended I see an oculoplastic or oculofacial surgeon.  Looks like I'll have to find a surgeon in the USA which will be $$$$.


----------



## MissOrange

kinto said:


> Thanks @MissOrange !  Thanks for your reply, I was able to talk to MVP yesterday and they unfotunately said they did not have expertise to help me due to the 'complexity'.  They recommended I see an oculoplastic or oculofacial surgeon.  Looks like I'll have to find a surgeon in the USA which will be $$$$.


Wow, sorry to hear you have a difficult revision to get fixed. Yes the US is too expensive. Try getting several opinions. Send kakaos with photos to Girin, View, Regen and see what they say. If they all say it is beyond their expertise, then pay for a US or UK oculoplastic specialist surgeon.


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> I'm sorry to hear about that, yes the UK is strange. If you came to Jamaica you'd be praised. We love Asians because we think you're beautiful. Have you tried taking collagen for hair growth? The powder form is best, preferably type 1 and 3. But type 1 fish collagen does the magic. You'll see results in 2 months or so. And it's good for skin too as collagen makes up 80% of our skin and we make less after passing the age of 20.


Wow thank you @Teina! I shall google type 1 fish collagen now.


----------



## MissOrange

I have a tv audition tomorrow. Do I wear sky gray contact lenses or my natural brown eyes? I am bringing a suitcase to do a quick change into a teen k pop outfit for my first day of class after the morning audition!


----------



## Christiflora

Natural brown eyes.  Dark color makes your eyes appear bigger and more natural.


----------



## MissOrange

Christiflora said:


> Natural brown eyes.  Dark color makes your eyes appear bigger and more natural.


Thanks @Christiflora! I agree with you! Brown it is.


----------



## Nervous 1

Oh my goodness , I'm so happy to have stumbled upon your thread, thanks for your detailed information and tips etc.im coming from Canada for a complete over haul on my face and it's daunting and a bit scary trying to find THE right clinic.so far I have my eye on VIP 





MissOrange said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.
> 
> 1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!
> 
> 2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.
> 
> 3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.
> 
> 4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.
> 
> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.
> 
> Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!


----------



## Nervous 1

so happy I did more internet digging and found you and post pines surgery a year ago but I'm not getting any younger , so helpful thanks again !





MissOrange said:


> @astrid07 this is a commonly asked question. The first thing is to know what the market rate is. When friends share the prices they paid you can work out if they actually paid too much or got a fantastic bargain.
> 
> For des and ptosis correction, I would say 2 million is a fantastic bargain and then work your way up as to what you would be willing to pay if you went to a more expensive clinic. Clearly if they want 4-5 million won then the clinic is overcharging and you had better negotiate hard or pick somewhere else. Be prepared to walk away from a clinic that is charging double.
> 
> For primary rhino, 3 million is a great price for primary and 4.5-5 million for revision rhino is fair but 7-11 million for revision silicone rhino and 11-13 million for rib revision rhino may well be overcharging foreigners. Some have paid 11 million for revision rhino! Wow! Don't expect that by paying 13 million you will get a fantastic nose. Price does not necessarily equate to quality.
> 
> And for fat grafting a fair price is 1.5-2 million including one free top up. Locals pay 600-1.2 million.
> 
> Now that you know what you should be paying you contact the clinic by kakao with photos. Let them suggest a price first. If it is a ridiculously high price, there is no point in negotiating as clearly they are overcharging foreigners. The most expensive clinics are JW, Cinderella, Banobagi, Regen and April31. Some gals have their parents pay so don't bother to negotiate and are happy for their parents to pay high prices. As a parent I am not happy to overpay! Lol. If it is high but you can afford if they reduce by 30% suggest things like you can write a review on Tpf, you have an Instagram following, you are okay with your image being used on their website or Instagram, etc. This should get you a 20-30% discount. Multiple procedures should also get you a discount without the use of your image. Also suggest you can pay with cash won. Quotes in won are cheaper than USD quotes so ask for prices in won. Be prepared to wait and not reply right away. Don't sound too desperate for surgery. Do declare your budget if you really like the clinic but need them to match your budget and let them know. Do not be enticed into more procedures than you need. Hope this helps and screenshot any agreed price you make with the clinic in case they try to renege on the price agreement when you are fasted, changed and waiting for your surgery like what happened to me at DA clinic. Astonishingly awful experience!


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## Ingrid_sk

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange  I am tempted to do the mini lipo on my arms. My last visit to Evita Clinic, the surgeon rejected to do the arms lipo for me. Hmm...



Fortunecat - did they say/did you ask why they wouldn't do it for your arms?? I was thinking of going there for arm lipo too. Thanks.


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## Fortunecat

Ingrid_sk said:


> Fortunecat - did they say/did you ask why they wouldn't do it for your arms?? I was thinking of going there for arm lipo too. Thanks.



@Ingrid_sk Dr Jeon (Evita Clinic) said my arms were ok last year. The nurse clinician at 365mc (2018) said only 1 syringe (50cc) per arm was needed for LAMS. The doctor at Renewme clinic told me its not necessary (2018). So, I guess my arms is still within the normal standards and not sagging too much? But then, I guess we are our own worst critics. I still find them huge though. Hmm...


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @Ingrid_sk Dr Jeon (Evita Clinic) said my arms were ok last year. The nurse clinician at 365mc (2018) said only 1 syringe (50cc) per arm was needed for LAMS. The doctor at Renewme clinic told me its not necessary (2018). So, I guess my arms is still within the normal standards and not sagging too much? But then, I guess we are our own worst critics. I still find them huge though. Hmm...


What is your arm circumference in inches?


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> What is your arm circumference in inches?



@MissOrange My arm circumference is 10.5 inches. However, I do use dumbbells and there is bicep buldging when I flex my arm. I guess that's why the doctors feel that its not necessary? I have been training on my triceps as well to prevent batwings.


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## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange My arm circumference is 10.5 inches. However, I do use dumbbells and there is bicep buldging when I flex my arm. I guess that's why the doctors feel that its not necessary? I have been training on my triceps as well to prevent batwings.


Can you pinch an inch of loose skin under your arms without flexing it @Fortunecat? It is good you have been doing weights. My right arm was 11 inches and flabby pre-op. I think the ideal is 10 inches or less. My right arm is 10 inches today 6 months post lipo and 9.5 inches on the left. Maybe if it gets to 11 inches, they will agree? You could stop doing weights and let your arms go fat and flabby, then they will agree?


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## MissOrange

Here is my b+a after radiesse dermal filler today for nasolabial creases, more pronounced on my right. The nasolabial area is a difficult area as fat graft does not last in this area and silicone paranasal implants can cause infection or rejection. This leaves a smas facelift which is very expensive and major surgery or adding volume with a dermal filler if the problem is loss of volume which in my case it is. Radiesse is made of calcium so is a natural substance and lasts 12-18 months. Be careful as sculptra filler is made from PLLA, the same synthetic material as used in PDO threads so I only get Radiesse. By adding volume to both nasolabial areas, it has the added benefit of lifting my jowls at the same time. I have ordered a hummingbird red velvet cake to try to push my weight up from 98.6 closer to 100 lbs to fully expand the facial fat graft.


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## Hissingflora

Just caught up with the thread! 121 pages You’re a lovely woman. Thank you so much for your openness. Best of luck, Orange.


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## Valenrina

MissOrange said:


> Here is my b+a after radiesse dermal filler today for nasolabial creases, more pronounced on my right. The nasolabial area is a difficult area as fat graft does not last in this area and silicone paranasal implants can cause infection or rejection. This leaves a smas facelift which is very expensive and major surgery or adding volume with a dermal filler if the problem is loss of volume which in my case it is. Radiesse is made of calcium so is a natural substance and lasts 12-18 months. Be careful as sculptra filler is made from PLLA, the same synthetic material as used in PDO threads so I only get Radiesse. By adding volume to both nasolabial areas, it has the added benefit of lifting my jowls at the same time. I have ordered a hummingbird red velvet cake to try to push my weight up from 98.6 closer to 100 lbs to fully expand the facial fat graft.



Wow your results look so good? Can I ask why you are doing radiesse when you just had fats graft at MVP? Does fats graft not correct the nasolabial folds? Thanks for all your sharing, 121 pages, and that is dedication.


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## MissOrange

Valenrina said:


> Wow your results look so good? Can I ask why you are doing radiesse when you just had fats graft at MVP? Does fats graft not correct the nasolabial folds? Thanks for all your sharing, 121 pages, and that is dedication.


Hi @Valenrina, I enjoyed your blog and daily postop photos of your zygoma reduction which I studied intently as I was so close to getting it myself but realised with my metal allergy, my face may have reacted to the titanium screws. Your face is lovely and slim. I am stuck with my 14 cm wide face. The nasolabial area and the area around the mouth move so much that it is hard for fat graft to last. I drank 1-2 litres of water each day to expand the fat graft all over my face which worked from Feb 2018 when I had my first full face fat graft at MVP until Jan 2020 but after last month’s trauma of getting threads placed and then removed within a day of each other, my skin and soft tissues have been traumatised and the lower facial skin is now looser despite a fat graft top up because of my mistake getting 6 synthetic threads in and out. I am slowly gaining weight and continue to drink water but with a second casting tv audition this weekend, I need to look 20 a lot quicker. The quickest way is with radiesse dermal filler to the nasolabial fold which lasts 12-18 months. I still have not reached 99-100 lbs so my facial fat graft has not expanded to its fullest yet. The red velvet cake should be arriving any time today so the additional fat should get me to my target weight faster.


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## MissOrange

After eating red velvet cake Friday-Sunday, my lower face has expanded. This is my personal solution to sagging, eat foods high in fat for loose saggy skin to expand your fat cells.


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## MissOrange

Today's second post is a caution. Dr Lim who used to work at MVP has moved to Nana and may have allegedly received his final warning after a lady complained about her rhinoplasty with him. When my friend had her lip lift with Choi at MVP, one side was stitched beautifully but the other not which made her suspect that Dr Lim may have done one side as the contrast was that stark. Please do thorough research and talk to real former patients before choosing any surgeon.

On an even sadder note a 33 yo lady who had extreme FC, zygoma and v line elsewhere has +++ sagging which has made her homebound for months. She regrets getting FC as her cheeks did not even protrude on the sides. She felt pressured into getting FC by the consultant translator. She is flying back to korea for titanium implants to rebuild her face!

Please remember bone cutting will result in loose skin as you are losing the scaffold and your facial bones will shrink naturally as you age so you need bone for postmenopausal expedited bone loss or you may face extreme sagging in older age. Too often I am seeing postop results after v line where the angle is not sharp as the skin and tissues have then dropped and the person now has a double chin or sagging around the jaw. Dealing with sagging skin in your 20s or 30s is too soon! It may require a lifetime of fat grafting, threads or facelifts.


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## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> Today's second post is a caution. Dr Lim who used to work at MVP has moved to Nana and may have allegedly received his final warning after a lady complained about her rhinoplasty with him. When my friend had her lip lift with Choi at MVP, one side was stitched beautifully but the other not which made her suspect that Dr Lim may have done one side as the contrast was that stark. Please do thorough research and talk to real former patients before choosing any surgeon.
> 
> On an even sadder note a 33 yo lady who had extreme FC, zygoma and v line elsewhere has +++ sagging which has made her homebound for months. She regrets getting FC as her cheeks did not even protrude on the sides. She felt pressured into getting FC by the consultant translator. She is flying back to korea for titanium implants to rebuild her face!
> 
> Please remember bone cutting will result in loose skin as you are losing the scaffold and your facial bones will shrink naturally as you age so you need bone for postmenopausal expedited bone loss or you may face extreme sagging in older age. Too often I am seeing postop results after v line where the angle is not sharp as the skin and tissues have then dropped and the person now has a double chin or sagging around the jaw. Dealing with sagging skin in your 20s or 30s is too soon! It may require a lifetime of fat grafting, threads or facelifts.


She did her fc at mvp ?


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Can you pinch an inch of loose skin under your arms without flexing it @Fortunecat? It is good you have been doing weights. My right arm was 11 inches and flabby pre-op. I think the ideal is 10 inches or less. My right arm is 10 inches today 6 months post lipo and 9.5 inches on the left. Maybe if it gets to 11 inches, they will agree? You could stop doing weights and let your arms go fat and flabby, then they will agree?


@MissOrange The thought of that freaked me out. Ahahaha. I did not do any weights training on my arms over the weekends and my arm measured 10 inches. Hmm...


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## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> She did her fc at mvp ?


No, at another clinic.


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## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> No, at another clinic.


 Ah  
Can you share the name ?


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## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> Ah
> Can you share the name ?


I would if I knew the name. All I know is she is getting titanium implants to rebuild her face at The Face Dental.


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## MissOrange

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/husband-sue-south-korean-plastic-140950149.html
Another word of caution ..  make sure an anaesthetist is administering your anaesthesia and monitoring you. And that your surgeon is board certified in plastic surgery. Is it worth risking your life to get half price surgery in korea? If the hospital is big, it may be a teaching hospital or use shadow doctors or dentists. If a clinic is too small, it may be one doctor who is not board certified with no anaesthetist. My life is worth the higher price in the UK for all surgeries that can be done in the UK. Korea is good for FC as the UK does not offer this.


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## MissOrange

I found a photo taken of me with no makeup on a professional Nikon camera on Feb 22 of this year before my red velvet cake binge weekend and radiesse nasolabial dermal filler to plump up the marionette line and nasolabial fold, respectively. The good news is that I have a natural v line so did not need v line shaving as suggested by Girin or a facelift after weight gain.


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## Sara88

I’m sorry you had a bad experience at Fresh Miss Orange. I went there in 2019 and everything was great (Dr Hong did an amazing job on me) and I intend to go back soon.


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## MissOrange

Sara88 said:


> I’m sorry you had a bad experience at Fresh Miss Orange. I went there in 2019 and everything was great (Dr Hong did an amazing job on me) and I intend to go back soon.


Hi @Sara88,

Dr Hong at Fresh is excellent at facial fat graft and I have often named him and Dr Seo at MVP as the best in korea but was alarmed Dr Hong has no anaesthesiologist. You are comfortable with accepting this risk but many, especially those in the medical field in Western countries, are not as the risk of death is unacceptable and unnecessary. I wonder how much an anaesthesiologist would cost but surely if paying 4.4 million won to Fresh for breast fat transfer as I did it should include an anaesthesiologist to administer and monitor the effects of propofol, ketamine and midazolam (the same cocktail of drugs that were used in the HK heiress who died from the same operation, breast fat transfer)? In the UK, all anaesthesia for operations even iv sedation is administered by an anaesthesiologist. I was not prepared to risk death so cancelled 10 minutes before my surgery. Fortunately this only cost me loss of the deposit, ie 400,000 won or £280. Breast FT in the uk costs £4-5k or 7 million won but undertaken in a fully equipped private hospital full of anaesthesiologists, resuscitation equipment, ventilator, etc. ie first class service and the anaesthesiologist monitors and charts vital signs constantly during the operation and would immediately switch to intubation if the patient's oxygen sats started dropping. Breast FT in the US costs $9-11k.

I wonder why her sats dropped during lipo of the left arm? Did the surgeon injure the brachial artery? Did she suffer a fat embolism? Why did she bleed out from her nose and mouth? Why were there 2 doctors? Was one a junior doctor being supervised?


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## Gats

Hi @MissOrange, can you confirm your other fat grafts in Korea all had an anaesthesiologist in the surgery room? Given the facts around HK heiress death and your experience at Fresh, I'm wondering how common it is for one not to be present during surgery in Korea. Also can you help me understand if we should require one be present if we get any type of anethesia whether it be local, twilight, general, etc? Thanks!


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Hi @MissOrange, can you confirm your other fat grafts in Korea all had an anaesthesiologist in the surgery room? Given the facts around HK heiress death and your experience at Fresh, I'm wondering how common it is for one not to be present during surgery in Korea. Also can you help me understand if we should require one be present if we get any type of anethesia whether it be local, twilight, general, etc? Thanks!


Hi @Gats, MVP has a male anaesthesiologist on their website. I remember once meeting a female anaesthesiologist who introduced herself as such and was able to request antiemetic in my iv for the first 2 ops I had at MVP and she spoke a little English and remembered me when I saw her again. I never saw her this year so am not sure who gave me IV sedation but it went smoothly without hallucinations so thankfully I did not get the cheap drug ketamine. I must have had ketamine in 2018 as I saw the picture on the wall moving when I came to in recovery. It was very distressing to be hallucinating! At DA I saw a male doctor in theatre other than the surgeon Dr Kim and freaked out thinking he was the shadow doctor and was told after, when I enquired, that he was the male anaesthesiologist as I was put under GA for that particular facial fat graft. I assume it was because I was complaining in English about the incompetent theatre nurses as I lay on the theatre table. But waking up from the GA was so frightening as I could not breathe from the nitrous gas. I swore never to get GA in Korea after that.

But at Fresh you sign a separate English consent form agreeing for Dr Hong to administer the IV cocktail of propofol, ketamine and midazolam, which raised alarm bells for me and that is why I asked the consultant whether there was an anaesthesiologist and she replied no, Dr Hong injects himself. I asked myself how could the doctor operating monitor my vital signs while concentrating on the surgery itself? What if I needed intubation? I thought I was already taking a risk with a doctor who was not a board certified plastic surgeon (ie one of the 9/10 doctors in Korea doing plastic surgery without plastic surgery board certification) but to take on another risk of no anaesthesiologist in the theatre or clinic, was one too many. Even Dr O in Belgium has a qualified anaesthesiologist who saw me before my arm lipo for a medical history and I was able to request ondansetron iv antiemetic, administered and monitored me during twilight sedation and Dr O can still offer competitively low prices for similar procedures.

In the U.K., you can either have private plastic surgery in a private hospital under GA or cheaper private plastic surgery in the basement of a one surgeon clinic, a bit like Korea but the stark difference is that the twilight IV sedation in the basement is administered by a qualified anaesthesiologist in the U.K. who is often also a consultant anaesthetist in a NHS hospital. It is unheard of for the surgeon to be both surgeon and anaesthesiologist and for a nurse or surgeon to administer the twilight iv sedation. The only time a surgeon administers is if it is local anaesthesia.

It means asking at each consult whether a board certified anaesthesiologist will be administering the anaesthesia. Often if it is facial contouring or rhinoplasty, it will be as this requires general anaesthesia but for procedures done under twilight sedation, I wonder if some clinics use nurse anaesthetists instead? It never occurred to me to ask until the experience with Fresh and we have been noticing more plastic surgery deaths in Korea of late. I have not heard of a plastic surgery death in the U.K. but have heard of postop stroke as a complication of surgery with general anaesthesia. I guess all operations come with risks which is why you should only get surgery if you really need it and not for a minor improvement.


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## MissOrange

Okay folks please remove Dr Bednar as a recommendation for breast fat transfer in North Carolina. I have just read a very long and detailed negative review by a 37 yo British lady who flew all the way to have her op with him. She writes that he does not operate in a hospital but in a tiny clinic and the anaesthetist is not a doctor but a nurse. Her photos of her b&a are  clear evidence to back up her review. I am reposting what her tummy looked like after he harvested fat for her breasts which have left her with a left breast a cup size larger than her right. Hope she posts her review on RS. Dr B’s FB group does not allow for negative reviews. Thank goodness she found another group that would let her share her honest experience to warn others. To think I was debating whether to pay 50% deposit for the $11k surgery and fly to North Carolina myself! She like me had a bad feeling right before her operation. She was even invited to cancel her operation by the surgeon and his wife, but instead went ahead. I thank my angels that in that split moment, I chose to cancel my operation instead of risk breast lumps, oil cysts or an anaesthetic complication.

I have a consultation with Mr David Floyd booked next month. I think if I do go ahead with breast fat transfer, it has to be done in a U.K. hospital with a consultant anaesthesiologist too with proper recovery room beds. I am wearing a thigh compression garment as I seem to have developed a fat lump on my front right thigh?! I hope it flattens out. Fat cells tend to expand elsewhere when you remove fat cells from your body and I have had way too many inner thigh lipos for facial fat grafts.


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## MissOrange

Another reason to make sure you do your research thoroughly and not just trust one review site. https://www.foxnews.com/us/ohio-pla...5cSC_U3F6n3jZQyndz6Do_YF3A2X7PuhkDfU7V8ItXjU0 Plastic surgeon Dr Manish Gupta had a 4.9/5 star rating on RS yet he was arrested last Friday for drugging women with ketamine and diazepam and then raping women, allegedly for years! If you are fully sedated, you need to make sure you are safe as a female, especially if you are having surgery in a foreign country solo.


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## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Okay folks please remove Dr Bednar as a recommendation for breast fat transfer in North Carolina. I have just read a very long and detailed negative review by a 37 yo British lady who flew all the way to have her op with him. She writes that he does not operate in a hospital but in a tiny clinic and the anaesthetist is not a doctor but a nurse. Her photos of her b&a are  clear evidence to back up her review.



Looks like the skin did not adhere to the underlying tissue after he lipoed out the fat? Does she have nodules/lumps from the lipo? Did she wear compression garments at all?


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## MissOrange

Today is almost 2 months after my full face fat graft at MVP and thread removal and amazingly I look good at 101 lbs! How can a weight gain of 6 lbs do this? Wow! So if you have saggy jowls try gaining weight! Think of it as blowing up a deflated balloon. Natural weight gain costs nil!


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## Sophie_45

Hey @MissOrange, 
Can you pls tell me about your recovery from upper lip lift? I’m planning to travel from Australia to the US to get it done by Dr Mascaro. But I have only 1-1.5 weeks tops to go back to work (I work in a lab and interact with many people). Do you think I can get away with it? How was your speech/smile after 1 week post op?


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## MissOrange

Sophie_45 said:


> Hey @MissOrange,
> Can you pls tell me about your recovery from upper lip lift? I’m planning to travel from Australia to the US to get it done by Dr Mascaro. But I have only 1-1.5 weeks tops to go back to work (I work in a lab and interact with many people). Do you think I can get away with it? How was your speech/smile after 1 week post op?


Hi @Sophie_45 Dr Mascaro has good reviews so you are in good hands. I had mine done in the U.K. under local so the recovery was fast, one week and I was out and about. The incision is visible under the nose but fades from 2 weeks onwards.


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## silverneedle

Hi @MissOrange thank you so much for sharing your experience here. You look amazing for your age!

Since you say that South Korea has lower medical safety standards than the West, would you say that it's best to get surgery done in USA/UK unless the procedure is not available there? I am thinking of getting rhinoplasty done in Korea because I hope that Korean doctors have more experience with asian noses and because Kpop stars look so gorgeous, but now I'm not sure.


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## MissOrange

silverneedle said:


> Hi @MissOrange thank you so much for sharing your experience here. You look amazing for your age!
> 
> Since you say that South Korea has lower medical safety standards than the West, would you say that it's best to get surgery done in USA/UK unless the procedure is not available there? I am thinking of getting rhinoplasty done in Korea because I hope that Korean doctors have more experience with asian noses and because Kpop stars look so gorgeous, but now I'm not sure.


Hi @silverneedle,

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, if the procedure is not available in the U.K. or US then go to Korea. For instance facial fat graft is better in Korea as not many plastic surgeons have enough experience in the U.K. There is one plastic surgeon in Illinois who is good at facial fat graft and is mentioned on RS by violaxoxo. Any bone facial contouring should be done in Korea but be wary as the face needs volume and if you remove bone, the skin is very likely to sag, even more so as our jaw bone naturally shrinks as we age.

As for rhino, Korea pushes silicone for primary rhinoplasty which U.K. and US rhino surgeons do not use. The cost of rib rhino in Korea is as much as U.K. surgeons charge. In Korea the aesthetic now tends to be big straight noses in ladies in my opinion. I think it is 50:50 whether you go to Korea for rhino or have in the US or U.K.


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## MissOrange

Here is a 3 month update since I had full face fat graft at MVP in January. I have gained weight during the U.K. lockdown so now weigh 100.4 lbs which is a lot more than 96.4 lbs I weighed in Korea back in January! I keep forgetting that I should keep my weight up as my face looks better and I don’t have to then keep monitoring my fluid intake! Next time I even think I need another fat graft top up, remind me to gain weight and not drop below 100 lbs! Lol. No facelift and no thread-lift required. Make sure you keep your BMI at or above 19.0 to avoid facial skin sagging or drooping! It needs volume! 54 years old next month! Woohoo!


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## MissOrange

Here is an 8 month update on my upper arm liposuction port incision sites for the cannula. The right one is almost invisible and the left one is just a minor blemish that I expect to continue to fade by the 1 year mark. I would say it was well worth doing to avoid a long armlift scar if you have good skin elasticity. Test with the pinch test. Your skin should flatten within a second. Dr Oelbrandt of Belgium gets full marks for his arm liposuction.


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## treppenwitz

Is Radiesse the best for nasolabial fold? I thought Juvederm was the go-to.. And how many CC's would an average person need for a mild case (31 year old here).

You look great btw.


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## MissOrange

treppenwitz said:


> Is Radiesse the best for nasolabial fold? I thought Juvederm was the go-to.. And how many CC's would an average person need for a mild case (31 year old here).
> 
> You look great btw.


I only had radiesse for my nasolabial folds for over 10 years so cannot comment on juvederm. I usually need 1.5 cc’s total or 0.75 cc per side.


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## kaixin05

ms orange what is the difference between quick zygoma and traditional zygoma?


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## MissOrange

kaixin05 said:


> ms orange what is the difference between quick zygoma and traditional zygoma?


Hi @kaixin05 my limited understanding is that quick zygoma pushes the side zygoma inward and is less satisfactory with regards to making a noticeable difference than full zygoma which involves cutting and fixation with plate and screws.


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## MysticMelody

Hi Miss Orange, How are you? hope you and your family  safe. I have a couple of questions , apologies if you answered it before, but your thread is very long   Anyways, if you take some time and drop a line. it would be awesome.
1. How long is a recovery from Full face FG? What I mean is when you can go out without any seconds thoughts that somebody will notice any procedure done to your face (besides, looking great)
2. If I decide to do Thread lift altogether with FG will my recovery be longer? if yes, approximate 1 week or longer?
PS: I know everybody heals differently, but it would be great to know how long (on average) should I plan to stay in Korea (when this madness with COVID-19 ends) . Do you think 3 weeks will be ok?


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## MissOrange

MysticMelody said:


> Hi Miss Orange, How are you? hope you and your family  safe. I have a couple of questions , apologies if you answered it before, but your thread is very long   Anyways, if you take some time and drop a line. it would be awesome.
> 1. How long is a recovery from Full face FG? What I mean is when you can go out without any seconds thoughts that somebody will notice any procedure done to your face (besides, looking great)
> 2. If I decide to do Thread lift altogether with FG will my recovery be longer? if yes, approximate 1 week or longer?
> PS: I know everybody heals differently, but it would be great to know how long (on average) should I plan to stay in Korea (when this madness with COVID-19 ends) . Do you think 3 weeks will be ok?


3 weeks is enough. It takes 2-3 weeks for all the face FG to deswell and the bruising to go. I literally only had my threads in for 24 hours so cannot comment on TL recovery.


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## MissOrange

Sorry for the absence, I have been dealing with the covid crisis in the U.K. Asian countries are exemplary for the way they are handling covid. But the U.K. and US are not making it easy for clinicians to prescribe hydroxychloroquine which is what Korean hospitals give as early treatment! Instead they are pouring millions into the development of a vaccine. Yet there is no vaccine for SARS-Cov1 and MERS. For those who saw My Secret Terrius K drama and know the plot, it is eerily similar to what we are seeing in the U.K. and US. Turkey secured 1 million HCQ pills for its citizens and had 2,992 deaths. India gives HCQ as prophylaxis to its doctors and nurses and those caring for covid family members and only had 1000 total covid deaths for a population of 1.3 billion thus far, but the U.K. has over 100 healthcare worker deaths as they do not give prophylaxis and 21,000 deaths and USA 59,000 deaths. I am recovering myself from presumed covid, fever, nasal congestion, drop in oxygen sats to 91% and breathlessness. I would recommend if you are travelling for plastic surgery to take a finger pulse oximeter with you and thermometer. I love the Braun ear thermoscan. Remember if your temp is 37.5C, you may be detained and unable to board a plane home in Asia! And make sure you have a travel rescue pack of doxycycline 100 mg, HCQ 200 mg and zinc 200 mg x 5 days, the Italian protocol or azithromycin 500 mg, HCQ 200 mg and zinc 220 mg x 5 days Dr Zelenko’s NYC protocol for if you get covid. Either must be started in the first week of covid illness, the first phase to reduce viral RNA replication and cytokine storm. Take vitamin D daily. The last thing you want is to book plastic surgery and end up with covid! Stay safe y’all! As Brits are still in lockdown..6th week, I have not been able to get my hair done, highlights, acrylics, pedicure, or go shopping so no picture update until we are out of lockdown! It was hard enough trying to source hair dye as all blonde shades are sold out!


----------



## yunggrandpa

MissOrange said:


> Sorry for the absence, I have been dealing with the covid crisis in the U.K. Asian countries are exemplary for the way they are handling covid. But the U.K. and US are not making it easy for clinicians to prescribe hydroxychloroquine which is what Korean hospitals give as early treatment! Instead they are pouring millions into the development of a vaccine. Yet there is no vaccine for SARS-Cov1 and MERS. For those who saw My Secret Terrius K drama and know the plot, it is eerily similar to what we are seeing in the U.K. and US. Turkey secured 1 million HCQ pills for its citizens and had 2,992 deaths. India gives HCQ as prophylaxis to its doctors and nurses and those caring for covid family members and only had 1000 total covid deaths for a population of 1.3 billion thus far, but the U.K. has over 100 healthcare worker deaths as they do not give prophylaxis and 21,000 deaths and USA 59,000 deaths. I am recovering myself from presumed covid, fever, nasal congestion, drop in oxygen sats to 91% and breathlessness. I would recommend if you are travelling for plastic surgery to take a finger pulse oximeter with you and thermometer. I love the Braun ear thermoscan. Remember if your temp is 37.5C, you may be detained and unable to board a plane home in Asia! And make sure you have a travel rescue pack of doxycycline 100 mg, HCQ 200 mg and zinc 200 mg x 5 days, the Italian protocol or azithromycin 500 mg, HCQ 200 mg and zinc 220 mg x 5 days Dr Zelenko’s NYC protocol for if you get covid. Either must be started in the first week of covid illness, the first phase to reduce viral RNA replication and cytokine storm. Take vitamin D daily. The last thing you want is to book plastic surgery and end up with covid! Stay safe y’all! As Brits are still in lockdown..6th week, I have not been able to get my hair done, highlights, acrylics, pedicure, or go shopping so no picture update until we are out of lockdown! It was hard enough trying to source hair dye as all blonde shades are sold out!



Get well soon Miss Orange!! Wishing you good health. Thank you for sharing - these are some wild times for sure.


----------



## silverneedle

MissOrange said:


> Hi @silverneedle,
> 
> Sorry for the late reply. Yes, if the procedure is not available in the U.K. or US then go to Korea. For instance facial fat graft is better in Korea as not many plastic surgeons have enough experience in the U.K. There is one plastic surgeon in Illinois who is good at facial fat graft and is mentioned on RS by violaxoxo. Any bone facial contouring should be done in Korea but be wary as the face needs volume and if you remove bone, the skin is very likely to sag, even more so as our jaw bone naturally shrinks as we age.
> 
> As for rhino, Korea pushes silicone for primary rhinoplasty which U.K. and US rhino surgeons do not use. The cost of rib rhino in Korea is as much as U.K. surgeons charge. In Korea the aesthetic now tends to be big straight noses in ladies in my opinion. I think it is 50:50 whether you go to Korea for rhino or have in the US or U.K.



I see, this makes a lot of sense. However all surgeons I have consulted with said that I would not need bridge augmentation because my bridge is already high, and they all suggested bulbous nose reduction and short nose lengthening for me. I'd imagine that most western doctors are inexperienced performing these types of operation, since most westerners do not have this kind of nose. The doctors told me that my nose type is rarely found even among Asians.

I have just finished reading this whole thread. It's amazing the amount of insight you have shared here. And still taking the time to update the thread in this crisis. Many thanks and get well soon!


----------



## MissOrange

54 years old and my face is holding up. My weight today is 101 lbs (bmi 19). I have gained 5 lbs during this UK lockdown! I think the lesson is to keep replacing facial volume after menopause which means gain weight instead of diet. No need to check camera angles. There is no skin drooping when you gain weight!


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> 54 years old and my face is holding up. My weight today is 101 lbs (bmi 19). I have gained 5 lbs during this UK lockdown! I think the lesson is to keep replacing facial volume after menopause which means gain weight instead of diet. No need to check camera angles. There is no skin drooping when you gain weight!



@MissOrange Oh my! You are looking good!


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## MissOrange

For those who want to skip the 100+ pages, here is the quick answers to reverse ageing...1. Remove your stressors. Chronic stress has been linked to premature ageing and inflammatory disease. 2. Drink water not wine. 3. Avoid the direct sun like a vampire. 4. Go to my surgeon Dr Seo at MVP clinic in Seoul for facial fat graft and gain 3-5 lbs for graft survival. 5. Take vitamins to live forever. Niacin (vitamin B3) is helping reduce my lipoprotein A levels and reduce my carotid intima media thickness (familial stroke risk) and Vitamin D3 is protecting me against serious covid infection.

And if you are stopped by passport control, ask for a retina scan or fingerprint check as no one will believe you are 54! lol. 

The number of times I have been talked down to as if I were a kid is countless. It makes me want to stomp my feet and whack them like the ajumma I am inside but instead I smile like the 20 year old they see and nod my head like an obedient young girl. lol. 

Life now reminds me of the Hollywood movies of trading places where a mother and daughter have their bodies switched. The only difference is I can't go back and am stuck looking like a kid. A blessing or a curse? Who knows.


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## missapple87

Hope you are well and safe missorange! On the topic of sagging after jaw reduction and zygoma, i think you are absolutely right and i wish someone had cautioned me before of the consequences. Would you have any recommendation for a safe facelift procedure? In Korea?
I was looking at ultherapy but it seems like the results is dependent on individuals, and can be minimal- which isnt great for such a hefty price tag 






MissOrange said:


> Today's second post is a caution. Dr Lim who used to work at MVP has moved to Nana and may have allegedly received his final warning after a lady complained about her rhinoplasty with him. When my friend had her lip lift with Choi at MVP, one side was stitched beautifully but the other not which made her suspect that Dr Lim may have done one side as the contrast was that stark. Please do thorough research and talk to real former patients before choosing any surgeon.
> 
> On an even sadder note a 33 yo lady who had extreme FC, zygoma and v line elsewhere has +++ sagging which has made her homebound for months. She regrets getting FC as her cheeks did not even protrude on the sides. She felt pressured into getting FC by the consultant translator. She is flying back to korea for titanium implants to rebuild her face!
> 
> Please remember bone cutting will result in loose skin as you are losing the scaffold and your facial bones will shrink naturally as you age so you need bone for postmenopausal expedited bone loss or you may face extreme sagging in older age. Too often I am seeing postop results after v line where the angle is not sharp as the skin and tissues have then dropped and the person now has a double chin or sagging around the jaw. Dealing with sagging skin in your 20s or 30s is too soon! It may require a lifetime of fat grafting, threads or facelifts.


----------



## MissOrange

missapple87 said:


> Hope you are well and safe missorange! On the topic of sagging after jaw reduction and zygoma, i think you are absolutely right and i wish someone had cautioned me before of the consequences. Would you have any recommendation for a safe facelift procedure? In Korea?
> I was looking at ultherapy but it seems like the results is dependent on individuals, and can be minimal- which isnt great for such a hefty price tag


Hi @missapple87 search for the 52 yo facelift in Korea thread. She is an Asian American who got a good smas facelift at ASPS. I liked the B&A photos I saw at Namu for smas facelift too. The problem is finding someone who is more than 1 year out from facelift to make sure it holds. Most facelifts look fabulous initially but then after the swelling goes in a few months, the skin may start to sag and even more at 6 months if dissolvable sutures were used to hold up the smas layer. The last thing you want is to pay $12k for a smas facelift that only lasts 6-12 months!


----------



## MissOrange

At 101.4 lbs my face has even more fat which is preventing sagging. My weight keeps going up during this lockdown! I think ladies over 40 should not try to aim to be too thin. You need the extra fat in your face for volume to lift sagging skin as your facial bones shrink with age.


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## MissOrange

For ladies worried about ageing eyes, I noticed that as we age we lose fat in the eyelids so the lid socket becomes hollow and this increases the distance between the brows and the eyes. The bigger the space, the older and more skeletal the look. This photo is the best side by side depiction of ageing in the eyes. The solution is fat graft to the lids and as you can see my eyelids now look more like the eyes on the right. I also pencil fill the brows under the brows to reduce the distance between the brows and eyes. A smaller lid crease also makes the eyes look younger so do not ask for a large eyelid crease if you are an older lady!


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## MissOrange

Ageing is extremely difficult to reverse in the lower face which is why one must think twice about getting dramatic v line surgery in your youth, as this will reduce your jawbone and may expedite premature ageing! The face needs as much bony support while young so that in your 40s and onwards you have a head start as bone naturally starts reabsorbing with ageing and the lower face starts to collapse. Also good to maintain dental hygiene so you do not lose teeth as you get older as this too expedites jawbone loss.


----------



## MissOrange

For cult followers of the 1992 movie Death becomes her, here is an update on the actresses, in their 40s while filming and in their 60s now. I need to study their facial features to understand how ageing has altered their face. Prevention is the best treatment. At age 69 Goldie’s lower jaw is showing bone loss. I am taking daily calcium and vitamin D to protect myself against osteoporosis. The question is do I try HRT? Has anyone tried HRT?


----------



## Gats

Good tips! I think some people may do procedures that provide a temporary improvement but in the long term may age them faster like aggressive v-line or facial fat removal. Regarding jaw bone loss, chewing strengthens your jawbone so if you do lose teeth, it's better to replace them with an implant as opposed to a bridge so the bone in that spot will receive the pressure from chewing still. Here's a quote from Colgate about it:

Implants also help prevent the jaw bone from deteriorating, according to the American Academy of Implant Dentistry. When teeth fall out or are extracted, the jaw bone shrinks over time and changes the face's appearance and smile. An implant is embedded in the jaw bone, and using the new tooth to bite and chew stimulates the bone, helping to prevent it from shrinking. However, the false tooth in a dental bridge doesn't contact the jaw bone, so there may be bone loss.
Source: https://www.colgate.com/en-us/oral-...implants/bridge-or-implant-which-is-best-0616


----------



## MissOrange

Today is a sad day for me. I just found out and confirmed with Ellen that my Korean plastic surgeon Dr Hyo Seok Seo has left MVP clinic in Apgujeong. In my opinion, he is very artistic and creates beautiful natural Asian eyes and primary rhinoplasty. He is also gifted at anti aging facial fat graft, especially upper lid fat graft. I guess this means I better keep eating and never drop below 99 lbs as there will be no one good enough to do facial fat graft top ups. I shall have to keep my ears to the ground and hope to discover where his new clinic is in case I need help at age 60. I wish I had taken a decent selfie with him before he left but I was never in Korea long enough for a fully recovered postop photo.

Here is my 4 months post my last facial fat graft top up with Dr Seo I had back in January.  I took photos on my 54th birthday. I miss him already. I was so lucky to have found Dr Seo, a great plastic surgeon in Korea in 2016 just before I turned 50 to fix my aging eyes which had already gone through multiple blepharoplasties in the U.K. and then to correct my facial fat grafts from another Korean clinic to add volume in the right places to enhance beauty.


----------



## Nervous 1

MysticMelody said:


> Hi Miss Orange, How are you? hope you and your family  safe. I have a couple of questions , apologies if you answered it before, but your thread is very long   Anyways, if you take some time and drop a line. it would be awesome.
> 1. How long is a recovery from Full face FG? What I mean is when you can go out without any seconds thoughts that somebody will notice any procedure done to your face (besides, looking great)
> 2. If I decide to do Thread lift altogether with FG will my recovery be longer? if yes, approximate 1 week or longer?
> PS: I know everybody heals differently, but it would be great to know how long (on average) should I plan to stay in Korea (when this madness with COVID-19 ends) . Do you think 3 weeks will be ok?


Thank you, I'm following this .


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## MissOrange

I came across this B&A after photoshop on boredpanda and am in shock! I researched to see what photoshop app they may have used and it looks like FaceTune app. But this defeats the purpose of plastic surgery as you want to look like your selfie in reality not live life as a photoshopped image? I rely more on my mirror than my phone to see what I really look like. The only problem is how to capture my true image as the Samsung Galaxy phone and iPhones use a focal lens that narrows faces and enlarges noses!

Even Kylie Jenner does not look like her photoshopped Instagram photo in real life!


----------



## plyever

MissOrange said:


> I came across this B&A after photoshop on boredpanda and am in shock! I researched to see what photoshop app they may have used and it looks like FaceTune app. But this defeats the purpose of plastic surgery as you want to look like your selfie in reality not live life as a photoshopped image? I rely more on my mirror than my phone to see what I really look like. The only problem is how to capture my true image as the Samsung Galaxy phone and iPhones use a focal lens that narrows faces and enlarges noses!
> 
> Even Kylie Jenner does not look like her photoshopped Instagram photo in real life!


Hi Miss Orange, thank you so much for the valuable information. I wanted to know if only do upper lip fat transfer without any surgery, is it possible to end up droopy saggy more?


----------



## MissOrange

plyever said:


> Hi Miss Orange, thank you so much for the valuable information. I wanted to know if only do upper lip fat transfer without any surgery, is it possible to end up droopy saggy more?


Hi @plyever, I would not recommend lip fat transfer. The definitive procedure is bullhorn lip lift and the lip eversion will give you permanently fuller upper lips.


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## ceya

MissOrange,


I was thinking have my tattooed eyeliner remove before doing eyelids by Doctor Seo.
Your thoughts?  Any one?

I have no relative in Korea, how do I arrange for pick up and stay while having surgery?
Thanks


----------



## plyever

MissOrange said:


> Okay folks please remove Dr Bednar as a recommendation for breast fat transfer in North Carolina. I have just read a very long and detailed negative review by a 37 yo British lady who flew all the way to have her op with him. She writes that he does not operate in a hospital but in a tiny clinic and the anaesthetist is not a doctor but a nurse. Her photos of her b&a are  clear evidence to back up her review. I am reposting what her tummy looked like after he harvested fat for her breasts which have left her with a left breast a cup size larger than her right. Hope she posts her review on RS. Dr B’s FB group does not allow for negative reviews. Thank goodness she found another group that would let her share her honest experience to warn others. To think I was debating whether to pay 50% deposit for the $11k surgery and fly to North Carolina myself! She like me had a bad feeling right before her operation. She was even invited to cancel her operation by the surgeon and his wife, but instead went ahead. I thank my angels that in that split moment, I chose to cancel my operation instead of risk breast lumps, oil cysts or an anaesthetic complication.
> 
> I have a consultation with Mr David Floyd booked next month. I think if I do go ahead with breast fat transfer, it has to be done in a U.K. hospital with a consultant anaesthesiologist too with proper recovery room beds. I am wearing a thigh compression garment as I seem to have developed a fat lump on my front right thigh?! I hope it flattens out. Fat cells tend to expand elsewhere when you remove fat cells from your body and I have had way too many inner thigh lipos for facial fat grafts.


How sad is that!! I was planning to go him!! Now looks like need More research, I am wondering if there are any good plastic surgeons about breast fat transfer in the US?


----------



## MissOrange

ceya said:


> MissOrange,
> 
> 
> I was thinking have my tattooed eyeliner remove before doing eyelids by Doctor Seo.
> Your thoughts?  Any one?
> 
> I have no relative in Korea, how do I arrange for pick up and stay while having surgery?
> Thanks


Hi @ceya,

You can ask Dr Seo directly. He has joined the forum. When he was with MVP, MVP arranged for pick up from Incheon by private taxi to take you to the clinic and your hotel. You can book hotels on hotels.com. I liked Gangnam Art Nouveau, California Hotel but next time I may try Best Western as my sister stayed there and they have room service!


----------



## MissOrange

plyever said:


> How sad is that!! I was planning to go him!! Now looks like need More research, I am wondering if there are any good plastic surgeons about breast fat transfer in the US?


@plyever try joining the FB group on fat transfer to breast. It seems to be hit or miss with Bednar and Burns, the 2 most prolific at breast fat transfer. The group which is not run by either surgeon discusses other surgeons as well.


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on using caution if relying on instagram photos to make plastic surgery decisions. Here is a social influencer brave enough to show her cellulite in bad lighting vs posed in good lighting. Maybe it is okay to look less than perfect.


----------



## MissOrange

How many of you take a zillion selfies to only post the best shot and delete the rest? It takes so much effort to style and dye one's own hair with salons closed during lockdown, to put on false lashes and makeup when one spends most of the week in front of the tv watching netflix (love in the moonlight) just to post an update selfie, as date night is out of the window with restaurants all closed in the UK. Looks like piling on weight (95.8 lbs up to 101.6 lbs now) stuck indoors is filling out my face and making me look younger still! 

I am now over 4 years post Dr Seo's revision DES with lid fat graft and still loving my young eyes and 5 months post full face fat transfer top up by Dr Seo. A friend who hasn't seen me in 20 years kept falsely accusing me I was posting photos of my daughter (s) as myself until I reminded the friend that none of my daughters are blonde! lol. Yes you can look 20s at age 54 and I still have not had a facelift. Each time I pull my face back I look like an alien so am too scared to book a facelift yet.

My wish list is breast fat transfer with Mr David Floyd in London and mini thigh lift with Dr Oelbrandt in Belgium. I am waiting for my new consultation appointment to see Mr Floyd after my April appointment got cancelled by the clinic due to covid.


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## MissOrange

Yay! I have a consultation booked with Mr David Floyd for breast fat transfer at the end of the month! A couple of years ago his rate was £4k for one transfer and £6k for two transfers. This is close to the cost of flight, hotel and the 4.4 million won for breast fat transfer in Korea yet in the U.K. the operation is done in a private hospital with a consultant anaesthesiologist and 1 to 2 patient private nurse ratio. Dr Seo does not do breast fat transfer when I enquired at MVP and I am not prepared to pay $11k for breast FT in North Carolina with Dr Bednar in his clinic with nurse anaesthetist which with flights and hotel will cost even more. Also there is a ban on travel to the US. I did read a Tpf review on breast fat transfer at Fresh with photos and thought wow, maybe I would have been fine with great breast FT results had I not cancelled. Sigh. But I was shaking with anxiety over no anaesthesiologist so I guess it is best to have it done in the U.K. Although in the U.K. they put everyone under general anaesthesia in private hospitals so postop recovery is not as quick as with just IV twilight anaesthesia.

Finally after 24 years of 4 sets of recalled breast implants and explants, I can get natural breast fat transfer! It wasn’t invented back then. I have seen Mr Floyd’s patients on FB with really promising 6 month results and I like the shape he has created. His aesthetic seems to be breasts that look lifted like they have implants but are natural! My advice is not to try breast implants or you will be embarking on a long journey of implant ruptures and explants and FDA approval is no guarantee after FDA approved textured silicone implants were banned. At least with fat transfer it is autologous. As you can see from my photo my DD boobs have disappeared after en bloc explant!

After I recover from breast fat transfer, I can then book Dr Oelbrandt for mini thigh lift as his €2500 price is good for 1 year! And then at age 60 I shall get my first facelift and maybe by then they will have invented scarless facelifts!


----------



## MissOrange

Today’s post is on the importance of not being too skinny as you age. Youth is associated with chubby cheeks and a full face. Have you ever noticed that you look older if you get too skinny? Imagine how much worse it would be if you are post menopause and compounded by the loss of fat from drop in oestrogen too. The lesson then is to keep your weight up as you age to ensure your face has as much natural fat as possible to cope with the changes that come with the menopause. Here are examples of facial aging from extreme dieting.


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## MissOrange

Today’s post is a follow up photo comparison of arm liposuction I had a year ago with Dr Oelbrandt of Belgium. I love the results! I highly recommend him for liposuction! It took 3 months for the final results as the tumescent fluid had to reabsorb. Being told I have thin arms is a massive compliment and reminds me of when I was in my teens and 20s and had thin arms! Always best to try with the least invasive operation and no arm lift long scar first! In 3 weeks I have my consult with David Floyd for breast FT. I have reached out to 2 of his past patients. One has replied and had her breast FT 2 years ago and is still happy.


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## Kimmiko8

Hi @MissOrange thanks for this thread and all the useful information ♥️

I had under eye fat graft almost a year ago to reduce the hollowness under my eyes and for the last few months I have noticed that there is swelling and puffiness near my cheek bone area on the left side of my face. Despite constant massaging of the area and cold compresses I have had no luck.

i was wondering if you know of or have any experience/knowledge with under eye fat graft and why there would be puffiness?


----------



## MissOrange

Kimmiko8 said:


> Hi @MissOrange thanks for this thread and all the useful information ♥
> 
> I had under eye fat graft almost a year ago to reduce the hollowness under my eyes and for the last few months I have noticed that there is swelling and puffiness near my cheek bone area on the left side of my face. Despite constant massaging of the area and cold compresses I have had no luck.
> 
> i was wondering if you know of or have any experience/knowledge with under eye fat graft and why there would be puffiness?


Hi @Kimmiko8 sorry to hear you are having swelling and puffiness. Best to consult with your original doctor. I never had under eye fat graft so cannot comment.


----------



## Teina

What was the cost of your arm lipo in Belgium? I'm interested in getting it done but my muscles arent strong I'm afraid it might leave me with loose skin. I'm 5"5 and 149lbs


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## MissOrange

Teina said:


> What was the cost of your arm lipo in Belgium? I'm interested in getting it done but my muscles arent strong I'm afraid it might leave me with loose skin. I'm 5"5 and 149lbs


Hi @Teina, it cost me €1500 or £1350 back in 2019. The compression garment is included! Arm lift will probably be double that. Consults are either virtual or in person in London for £40, unlimited. Dr O will tell you whether you are a candidate for arm lipo vs arm lift. I have been quoted €2750 for mini crescent thigh lift or €2500 if I book within a year, ie by November. Dr O has a consultant anaesthetist who delivers twilight sedation and he was brilliant. I had no nausea or vomiting or pain postop. The theatre nurse was lovely too and the warm authentic Belgian waffle with glass of cola in recovery was delicious! Postop reviews are done in his clinic on Wimpole Street in London. I shall get a thigh lift once I get my breast fat transfer done, hopefully before November.


----------



## MissOrange

Today’s post is an update on my research on breast fat transfer. I have now heard from 3 patients of Mr Floyd and it looks like it needs 2 fat transfers to stick and not to get it at the same op as en bloc implant removal. Prices last year were £5k for one or £7k for 2. Sigh. Looks like I need to pay £7k. I have prepaid my £250 consult and see Floyd in 8 days time.

I am desperate to get my mini thigh lift so once I get an op date for breast fat transfer I can plan when to fit in a thigh lift. My right thigh has a lot of flabby skin from too many liposuctions...7 (2 back in 2002 and 2004 and then 5 for facial fat transfer (3 by DAPRS and 2 by MVP). Here is a photo of my thigh lying on my side, a poignant reminder that repeated liposuctions stretch the skin! I just need to hang in there until fat is harvested for my breasts and then I can fix them. Although if I have to wait another 3-5 months for the second breast fat transfer, it will be ages before I can get my thighs sorted. The left thigh is 19 inches today and right 19.5 inches at a weight of 100 lbs.


----------



## MissOrange

4 days to go until I see Mr Floyd for consult for breast fat transfer. Very excited. I recently read a post that Dr Bednar advises his patients to lose a whopping 10 lbs preop so the fat that is harvested is the ”stubborn” fat to ensure it sticks! This means that my theory to lose a few lbs before facial fat graft and then regain to help feed the fat has some truth to it! But I cannot lose 10 lbs?!! I shall try to lose 3-5 lbs before breast fat transfer. It means less thigh fat to harvest but then if I regain the weight postop, hopefully it will expand the new cells in the breast! Both times I had facial fat graft at MVP I was underweight by 3 lbs which may explain why my face is retaining the fat cells as I regained the weight postop.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Teina, it cost me €1500 or £1350 back in 2019. The compression garment is included! Arm lift will probably be double that. Consults are either virtual or in person in London for £40, unlimited. Dr O will tell you whether you are a candidate for arm lipo vs arm lift. I have been quoted €2750 for mini crescent thigh lift or €2500 if I book within a year, ie by November. Dr O has a consultant anaesthetist who delivers twilight sedation and he was brilliant. I had no nausea or vomiting or pain postop. The theatre nurse was lovely too and the warm authentic Belgian waffle with glass of cola in recovery was delicious! Postop reviews are done in his clinic on Wimpole Street in London. I shall get a thigh lift once I get my breast fat transfer done, hopefully before November.


@MissOrange have you seen the results of any patient of his who had a mini crescent thigh lift? Some patients on realself complained that the scar migrates and becomes visible after sometime due to gravity & tension.  I`m curious if he has a special technique that combats this.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> @MissOrange have you seen the results of any patient of his who had a mini crescent thigh lift? Some patients on realself complained that the scar migrates and becomes visible after sometime due to gravity & tension.  I`m curious if he has a special technique that combats this.


Hi @Mazikeen, Dr O showed me a patient of his on his computer. It looked good. Yes I am scared of a visible scar. He said he would put it in the crease to try to hide it. I see Dr Floyd in 2 days time. If he says yes to breast fat transfer then I delay my thigh lift. If he says no to breast fat transfer, then I seriously need to consider mini thigh lift and book a date ASAP. It has been a year since my arm lipo and my body has compensated for the arm lipo by expanding fat cells in the back of my thighs! Really keen to see Belgium again! Has no travel quarantine for Brits!


----------



## MissOrange

For ladies in your 40s and 50s, do not despair. I found this old photo of me taken back in 2014 and I look so old and ugly! The eyelid crease is too big and ageing, the lids are hollowing, the face is sallow, the nostrils are flared, the lips are too thin, the philtrum is too long, there are creases around my lower face, etc. Okay had to black out my eyes as I really hate this photo. With the free pic collage app I compared it to my makeup free smile taken 2 days ago with the rear phone camera lens so as real as possible. If you are considering facial fat transfer instead of face lift, choose Dr Seo like I did. DAPRS gave me chipmunk cheeks but Dr Seo gave me perfect cheeks. He truly has made me beautiful with young eyes and a rejuvenated fat grafted face! You can also see how bullhorn lip lift shortens the philtrum (mine is still 11 mms 3 years post!) and everts the upper lip so you get a permanent fuller lip. The only thing I need is Botox for my crows feet.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Mazikeen, Dr O showed me a patient of his on his computer. It looked good. Yes I am scared of a visible scar. He said he would put it in the crease to try to hide it. I see Dr Floyd in 2 days time. If he says yes to breast fat transfer then I delay my thigh lift. If he says no to breast fat transfer, then I seriously need to consider mini thigh lift and book a date ASAP. It has been a year since my arm lipo and my body has compensated for the arm lipo by expanding fat cells in the back of my thighs! Really keen to see Belgium again! Has no travel quarantine for Brits!


@MissOrange keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well for you.  Initially the scar is well hidden and everything looks great but after sometime the scar starts migrating, that`s why some surgeons prefer the vertical thigh lift.  Looking forward to your updates.


----------



## Teina

MissOrange said:


> For ladies in your 40s and 50s, do not despair. I found this old photo of me taken back in 2014 and I look so old and ugly! The eyelid crease is too big and ageing, the lids are hollowing, the face is sallow, the nostrils are flared, the lips are too thin, the philtrum is too long, there are creases around my lower face, etc. Okay had to black out my eyes as I really hate this photo. With the free pic collage app I compared it to my makeup free smile taken 2 days ago with the rear phone camera lens so as real as possible. If you are considering facial fat transfer instead of face lift, choose Dr Seo like I did. DAPRS gave me chipmunk cheeks but Dr Seo gave me perfect cheeks. He truly has made me beautiful with young eyes and a rejuvenated fat grafted face! You can also see how bullhorn lip lift shortens the philtrum (mine is still 11 mms 3 years post!) and everts the upper lip so you get a permanent fuller lip. The only thing I need is Botox for my crows feet.
> 
> View attachment 4799420


How much did the everted lip lift cost you? It's just what I need. I probably only need my lips to be everted as the philtrum is already short.


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## MissOrange

Hi @Teina, the everted lip lift is what happens with bullhorn lip lift. I don’t think it can be done by itself. It cost £2450 with Miss Caroline Mills in London. Dr Mascaro is good but a friend is needing bullhorn lip lift revision as hers dropped with him so for longevity Miss Mills wins hands down.


Teina said:


> How much did the everted lip lift cost you? It's just what I need. I probably only need my lips to be everted as the philtrum is already short.


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## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Teina, the everted lip lift is what happens with bullhorn lip lift. I don’t think it can be done by itself. It cost £2450 with Miss Caroline Mills in London. Dr Mascaro is good but a friend is needing bullhorn lip lift revision as hers dropped with him so for longevity Miss Mills wins hands down.


did she use fillers for your upper lip or is the volume the result of the lift? Do you have any external scars? I`m looking for a surgeon who can create for me a cupids bow lip w/out the scars.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> did she use fillers for your upper lip or is the volume the result of the lift? Do you have any external scars? I`m looking for a surgeon who can create for me a cupids bow lip w/out the scars.


Hi @Mazikeen, no fillers, just everted my inner mucosa to create more upper lip by pulling up on the philtrum skin and perioral muscle. The faint white scar is under my nose. You could try Dr Choi at mvp for a cupid's bow. He sewed my upper lip vermillion border when he removed old filler/scar tissue. His embroidery is incredible. There is no vermilion lip border scar. I think surgeons in Korea have incredible suture technique to reduce scarring.


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## Teina

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Teina, the everted lip lift is what happens with bullhorn lip lift. I don’t think it can be done by itself. It cost £2450 with Miss Caroline Mills in London. Dr Mascaro is good but a friend is needing bullhorn lip lift revision as hers dropped with him so for longevity Miss Mills wins hands down.


Oh sadly I can't travel to the UK.can you recommend a surgeon in korea?


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## Teina

Do you mean under eye fat graft? Is it worth it? You look great.


----------



## Teina

MissOrange said:


> @pinkypuppet37 I paid DAPRS 2.5 million won for 2 full facial fat grafting and included a 10% tax refund. Be prepared to negotiate with the consultant in person. The price initially started higher! I mentioned the price given to a friend and asked to match this as she had been offered 1.8 million for one or 2.5 million fo two. They agreed. I have since negotiated a third as although the fat grafting has stayed in the forehead and temples (only had it done once there), I think I need a top up again to the malar cheeks and around the mouth to stay permanently six months after my second. DA started at 1.5 million won and I started at 700,000 won for the third. We agreed at 1 million won. I would say know your budget and if the quote is still too high over kakao, meet with Dr Kim in person and then afterwards try your best to get them to work with you so it can be affordable for you. If you are active on social media, this can help with negotiations. I feel foreigners should be paying as close to local prices as possible and finding clinics that do this and have board certified plastic surgeons then becomes a win:win.


Wow those prices are amazing! Do you speak Korea? Were you able to hide the fact that you live in the UK at all?


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## MissOrange

Teina said:


> Wow those prices are amazing! Do you speak Korea? Were you able to hide the fact that you live in the UK at all?


You get what you pay for is the lesson I learned. I wasted money and trips to Korea getting fat graft at DAPRS. There were times I thought I had a shadow doctor as the results were so bad. The last time I went there, they said the consultant had left and they had no record of me being scheduled for fat graft. Then the manager wanted millions of won! It was a horrendous experience. I would never recommend DAPRS to foreigners. At the time I did not speak Korean. Since I have taken 2 years of Korean to protect myself. They see your passport on kakao as you have to give your passport number and country to book surgery. If you bargain too low, you may end up with a shadow doctor in a big hospital like DAPRS.


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## Teina

MissOrange said:


> You get what you pay for is the lesson I learned. I wasted money and trips to Korea getting fat graft at DAPRS. There were times I thought I had a shadow doctor as the results were so bad. The last time I went there, they said the consultant had left and they had no record of me being scheduled for fat graft. Then the manager wanted millions of won! It was a horrendous experience. I would never recommend DAPRS to foreigners. At the time I did not speak Korean. Since I have taken 2 years of Korean to protect myself. They see your passport on kakao as you have to give your passport number and country to book surgery. If you bargain too low, you may end up with a shadow doctor in a big hospital like DAPRS.


Oh I'm so sorry I misread things there


----------



## catelet

@MissOrange you look so good! You said your post above that in your old picture (the one you don't like) that your "nostrils were flared." How did you fix that? Did Dr. Seo do that with fat, or was that fixed w/your nose job in London?


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## MissOrange

I had my 30 minute consult for £250 with Mr David Floyd, Cambridge med school grad, plastic surgeon on Monday (see photo in waiting room). The good news is that he agreed to breast fat transfer and suggested using my love handles ie flanks which echoes what Dr Hong at Fresh was going to lipo for fat transfer. Mr Floyd said my thighs had lumps and he did not want to use an area that had been liposuctioned before. He said he could lipo my knees if my lower back (love handles) were not enough. He estimated I needed 150 ccs per breast to reinflate. He showed me lots of b+a breast fat transfer photos on his computer and one was 4 months postop. They all looked beautiful post breast FT. He definitely matches my aesthetic. The bad news is the NHS has extended their takeover of private hospitals for covid until Xmas. I am on Mr Floyd's surgical wait list with an estimate of 4 months!

As he won't use my thighs, I can book mini thigh lift but still waiting to hear back from Dr O. Now that my arms are super skinny, my thighs look super fat in comparison!

This explains part of the appeal of Korea. You can get next day surgery and consults are free.


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange you look so good! You said your post above that in your old picture (the one you don't like) that your "nostrils were flared." How did you fix that? Did Dr. Seo do that with fat, or was that fixed w/your nose job in London?


Hi @catelet, the latter. Mr Ion's open rib rhino corrected the flared nostrils. My 15 year old tip rhino with Mr Stanek was losing its shape which explained the tip fallng and the flared nostrils. Still, 15 years is a good length of time for rhino to last. Mr Ion's rhino is now over 4 years in longevity and the rib is holding.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is on my progress with booking thigh lift. Sadly I have had no reply to 2 emails and 1 whatsapp to Dr O requesting a surgery date for mini thigh lift, so have booked a virtual consult with Dr Fulvio Urso-Baiarda, a Oxford med school grad who performs 10 thigh lifts a year in Berkshire. He has 2 happy thigh lift patients on RS. My only reservation is a long scar but will ask for removable sutures and not buried dissolvable sutures to reduce scarring. A virtual consult costs £100 and I have a 45 minute zoom slot in 2 weeks time. I am trying to exercise to try to save £5.5-6k full thigh lift cost so will see what I can do before the consult but not too hopeful as my fat bulges and loose thigh skin are too obvious and I cannot keep up exercise for the rest of my life so surgery will be more definitive. He gave a 64 yo lady 20 yo toned thin thighs (see photo)! He has photos on his website as well as RS!

Dr Dan Marsh at The Plastic Surgery Group, 100 Harley St is another plastic surgeon great at thigh lifts. His price is over £6.4k. I may consult with him too. See the photo collage of Dr Marsh's patient Nancy's B&A vs my preop right thigh. I so need thigh lift!

I am 100% decided on Mr Floyd for breast FT after seeing lots of beautiful FT breasts on his computer. I am still awaiting quotes from his secretary and have been told I am on his op wait list.

With the covid pandemic it means travelling abroad for ps is too difficult. Dr Fulvio's PA says 2 week self quarantine prior to op and Dr Floyd's secretary writes 2 week self quarantine and get a negative covid swab test 72 hours before surgery.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on my progress with booking thigh lift. Sadly I have had no reply to 2 emails and 1 whatsapp to Dr O requesting a surgery date for mini thigh lift, so have booked a virtual consult with Dr Fulvio Urso-Baiarda, a Oxford med school grad who performs 10 thigh lifts a year in Berkshire. He has 2 happy thigh lift patients on RS. My only reservation is a long scar but will ask for removable sutures and not buried dissolvable sutures to reduce scarring. A virtual consult costs £100 and I have a 45 minute zoom slot in 2 weeks time. I am trying to exercise to try to save £5.5-6k full thigh lift cost so will see what I can do before the consult but not too hopeful as my fat bulges and loose thigh skin are too obvious and I cannot keep up exercise for the rest of my life so surgery will be more definitive. He gave a 64 yo lady 20 yo toned thin thighs (see photo)! He has photos on his website as well as RS!
> 
> Dr Dan Marsh at The Plastic Surgery Group, 100 Harley St is another plastic surgeon great at thigh lifts. His price is over £6.4k. I may consult with him too. See the photo collage of Dr Marsh's patient Nancy's B&A vs my preop right thigh. I so need thigh lift!
> 
> I am 100% decided on Mr Floyd for breast FT after seeing lots of beautiful FT breasts on his computer. I am still awaiting quotes from his secretary and have been told I am on his op wait list.
> 
> With the covid pandemic it means travelling abroad for ps is too difficult. Dr Fulvio's PA says 2 week self quarantine prior to op and Dr Floyd's secretary writes 2 week self quarantine and get a negative covid swab test 72 hours before surgery.
> 
> View attachment 4806974
> 
> 
> View attachment 4806976


Yay  happy that the consultation went well. Where will the thighlift scar be? Anchored to your groin or vertical? Dr. Fulvio's results are fantastic but the incisions seem long. Have you braced yourself mentally incase he recommends a vertical incision? Will you still do it?


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## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Yay  happy that the consultation went well. Where will the thighlift scar be? Anchored to your groin or vertical? Dr. Fulvio's results are fantastic but the incisions seem long. Have you braced yourself mentally incase he recommends a vertical incision? Will you still do it?


I noticed that my inguinal hernia scar is truly invisible, ie I can't even find it, as the skin closure was with a removable suture, as are the groin lipo scars for the thigh lipo for face fg. Dr Floyd tried to find the thigh lipo port scars. I think the key to invisible scars is not to get buried subcuticular dissolvable sutures as the skin then reacts to a foreign body left under the skin for weeks! If Dr Fulvio agrees to this, then yes I can get a long scar and remove the sutures myself in 3 days not 7.

Alas my periareolar breast lift was closed with buried subcuticular dissolvable sutures and Dr Floyd remarked on my 12 month hypertrophic areola scars/keloids. He advised I apply silicone gel. This reminded me to put on my scaraway silicone gel tapes. My under breast incision scars are 19 months old and are thin, flat but darkly pigmented. Again subcuticular dissolvable sutures were used, my mistake for forgetting to say use removable sutures.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> I noticed that my inguinal hernia scar is truly invisible, ie I can't even find it, as the skin closure was with a removable suture, as are the groin lipo scars for the thigh lipo for face fg. Dr Floyd tried to find the thigh lipo port scars. I think the key to invisible scars is not to get buried subcuticular dissolvable sutures as the skin then reacts to a foreign body left under the skin for weeks! If Dr Fulvio agrees to this, then yes I can get a long scar and remove the sutures myself in 3 days not 7.
> 
> Alas my periareolar breast lift was closed with buried subcuticular dissolvable sutures and Dr Floyd remarked on my 12 month hypertrophic areola scars/keloids. He advised I apply silicone gel. This reminded me to put on my scaraway silicone gel tapes. My under breast incision scars are 19 months old and are thin, flat but darkly pigmented. Again subcuticular dissolvable sutures were used, my mistake for forgetting to say use removable sutures.


That`s a good tip with the sutures. Can`t wait for your post thigh lift update.


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## MissOrange

Trying this 7 day challenge to reduce my thighs by 3 cms! Completed day 1. The chinese video has had 25 million views! She reduced her thigh from 19.5 inches to 18.5 inches in 7 days! My thigh muscles are burning! Must be working. My thighs are starting at 18 inches on the left and 19 on the right on day 1. If I can tighten and tone my thighs then I can skip thigh lift! I am doing most of the exercises lying in bed!


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## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Trying this 7 day challenge to reduce my thighs by 3 cms! Completed day 1. The chinese video has had 25 million views! She reduced her thigh from 19.5 inches to 18.5 inches in 7 days! My thigh muscles are burning! Must be working. My thighs are starting at 18 inches on the left and 19 on the right on day 1. If I can tighten and tone my thighs then I can skip thigh lift! I am doing most of the exercises lying in bed!



this could definitely work but I think you`ll need to do the exercises regularly for the results to last.  Have you tried RF/Cavitation treatments? Thinking of trying them for my abs.


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## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> this could definitely work but I think you`ll need to do the exercises regularly for the results to last.  Have you tried RF/Cavitation treatments? Thinking of trying them for my abs.


Hi @Mazikeen, thank you for your thoughts. No I haven’t tried RF/Cavitation. I rang Dr Marsh’s office but his first consultation appointment is in December! And first surgery date April of next year! That rules him out for thigh lift. My thigh exercise only lasted a day. Lost the impetus already! I reviewed my past weights and measurements and even at 95 lbs my right thigh was 19 inches so I don’t think diet or exercise will help. The skin has been stretched too much from 7 lipos and needs excising. Guess that means I go with Dr Fulvio in Berkshire. My virtual consult appointment is in 2 weeks time.


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## MissOrange

It seems that you do not buy time with a virtual consult as surgery cannot be booked without a face to face consult, so I have rescheduled for a £230 in person consult with Dr Fulvio in Windsor for the last week of this month. It is an hour’s drive away so close enough for surgery too! He can decide whether I need a crescent thigh lift or a long scar lift. Getting excited as I may get a surgery date even before my breast fat transfer! Still awaiting to hear from Dr Floyd’s secretary on prices for breast FT. Once the thighs are lifted then it means I just have my flanks for one breast fat transfer as Floyd does not want to use my over lipo’d thighs. No more decisions about a good face but fat body or a saggy face but slim body! Hope to literally have my cake and eat it!  I am banking on future fat cells expanding in my chest and bum as I will have lifted or liposuctioned everywhere else!


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## MissOrange

OMG! I am so excited! I finally heard back from Dr Oelbrandt! He can operate on me next month! I sent him recent thigh photos as my consult with him was back in November. Just waiting now to know what day so I can book the Eurostar back to Beveren, try the hotel van der valk as I need room service postop and pay for surgery. No need to see Dr Fulvio once I get a surgery date. Woohoo!


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## MissOrange

Here is a pic collage of the markings for crescent lift drawn on my consult day with Dr O back in November weighing 95.8 lbs. It looks very nice and doable. I also made a collage of my thighs at 101.6 lbs in July during lockdown vs 99.6 lbs today. The thighs look a little smaller 18 inches left thigh and 18.75 inches right thigh but needs skin removal for toned and tight 20 year old Barbie thighs. I have cancelled my appointment with Dr Fulvio as I do not need a full thigh lift, just a mini thigh lift with Dr O.


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## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Mazikeen, thank you for your thoughts. No I haven’t tried RF/Cavitation. I rang Dr Marsh’s office but his first consultation appointment is in December! And first surgery date April of next year! That rules him out for thigh lift. My thigh exercise only lasted a day. Lost the impetus already! I reviewed my past weights and measurements and even at 95 lbs my right thigh was 19 inches so I don’t think diet or exercise will help. The skin has been stretched too much from 7 lipos and needs excising. Guess that means I go with Dr Fulvio in Berkshire. My virtual consult appointment is in 2 weeks time.


lmao, that was fast.  You are right, once the skin has stretched too much no exercise can help.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> It seems that you do not buy time with a virtual consult as surgery cannot be booked without a face to face consult, so I have rescheduled for a £230 in person consult with Dr Fulvio in Windsor for the last week of this month. It is an hour’s drive away so close enough for surgery too! He can decide whether I need a crescent thigh lift or a long scar lift. Getting excited as I may get a surgery date even before my breast fat transfer! Still awaiting to hear from Dr Floyd’s secretary on prices for breast FT. Once the thighs are lifted then it means I just have my flanks for one breast fat transfer as Floyd does not want to use my over lipo’d thighs. No more decisions about a good face but fat body or a saggy face but slim body! Hope to literally have my cake and eat it!  I am banking on future fat cells expanding in my chest and bum as I will have lifted or liposuctioned everywhere else!


£230? Wow that is pricey.  Have you considered consulting with surgeons who perform surgeries on patients who have had Bariatric surgery?  imo they have more experience in thigh lifts coz they do them often.  Eg. Dr. Cardenas in Mexico is a plastic surgeon who specialises in BBL & Body lifts - thighs, arms, full body.  Here are some pics from a patient from the US-azhappygal:
Before:

















1 yr post


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## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> OMG! I am so excited! I finally heard back from Dr Oelbrandt! He can operate on me next month! I sent him recent thigh photos as my consult with him was back in November. Just waiting now to know what day so I can book the Eurostar back to Beveren, try the hotel van der valk as I need room service postop and pay for surgery. No need to see Dr Fulvio once I get a surgery date. Woohoo!









for u


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## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Here is a pic collage of the markings for crescent lift drawn on my consult day with Dr O back in November weighing 95.8 lbs. It looks very nice and doable. I also made a collage of my thighs at 101.6 lbs in July during lockdown vs 99.6 lbs today. The thighs look a little smaller 18 inches left thigh and 18.75 inches right thigh but needs skin removal for toned and tight 20 year old Barbie thighs. I have cancelled my appointment with Dr Fulvio as I do not need a full thigh lift, just a mini thigh lift with Dr O.
> 
> View attachment 4809229
> 
> 
> View attachment 4809230


Dr. O is right. All he needs to do is to trim off the excess skin and your legs will be banging.


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## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> £230? Wow that is pricey.  Have you considered consulting with surgeons who perform surgeries on patients who have had Bariatric surgery?  imo they have more experience in thigh lifts coz they do them often.  Eg. Dr. Cardenas in Mexico is a plastic surgeon who specialises in BBL & Body lifts - thighs, arms, full body.  Here are some pics from a patient from the US-azhappygal:
> Before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 yr post


Wow! Yes the transformations in those who have lost a lot of weight are incredible. Mexico is too far away from the U.K. and I bet they have a 2w quarantine in place if they even accept Brit tourists. I should be able to book Eurostar return for £200 including local trains to Beveren, Belgium, which will be less than the price of one U.K. consult! I rang and cancelled my consults with Dr Fulvio. I am chomping at the bit waiting for a surgery date next month so I can book my train and hotel. Once Dr O writes back again with a surgery date, I can finalise travel plans. Small window before Europe gets its second wave!


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## MissOrange

OMG! I just got notified of a cancellation opening for 2 weeks time for breast fat transfer with Mr Floyd!!! Woohoo! No 4 month wait. It is at the more expensive posh private London hospital than the outlier hospital but I’ll take it. Now I have to self isolate from Saturday. Not sure how to arrange a covid swab test for 72 hours before surgery as NHS drive thru results take 48 hours to 1 week! How can I self isolate if I am driving to a covid test centre? Waiting for the price to pay. Now I don’t know if I should order a red velvet cake and increase my fat cells so it is easier for him to harvest from my flanks or should I lose 3 lbs to then regain the weight to help the fat graft survive? Everything is happening so quickly now. Breast fat transfer later this month and thigh lift next month!


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## MissOrange

Here is a collage of 1.2 litres flank lipo by Dr Marsh. I am so excited Dr Floyd will lipo 300 ccs from my flanks for my breast FT. Not only will I augment my breasts naturally but I get curves and a slimmer waist too! I have ordered a lola's red velvet cake for home delivery! The more fat he can lipo for my breasts the better!


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> OMG! I just got notified of a cancellation opening for 2 weeks time for breast fat transfer with Mr Floyd!!! Woohoo! No 4 month wait. It is at the more expensive posh private London hospital than the outlier hospital but I’ll take it. Now I have to self isolate from Saturday. Not sure how to arrange a covid swab test for 72 hours before surgery as NHS drive thru results take 48 hours to 1 week! How can I self isolate if I am driving to a covid test centre? Waiting for the price to pay. Now I don’t know if I should order a red velvet cake and increase my fat cells so it is easier for him to harvest from my flanks or should I lose 3 lbs to then regain the weight to help the fat graft survive? Everything is happening so quickly now. Breast fat transfer later this month and thigh lift next month!


How about a home test - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-getting-tested - would that work in your case? to up your fat I would say the red velvet is a good start. Fish & chips, mcdonalds, pasta with creamy sauces, anything deep fried.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> How about a home test - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-getting-tested - would that work in your case? to up your fat I would say the red velvet is a good start. Fish & chips, mcdonalds, pasta with creamy sauces, anything deep fried.


Thank you for the link @Mazikeen! Yes, I agree better to up my fat for breast FT so he is not struggling to find fat. Red velvet cake is arriving tomorrow morning. Today I took advantage of the 50% off U.K. government restaurant offer Mon-Wed and ordered 2 dishes at Wagamama and tried my best to eat both for lunch but felt sick so stopped pigging out and bagged the chicken for my puppy. It is very amusing to think I can gorge myself for 2 weeks to then get lipo to remove the fat and fill my breasts! Still waiting for the hospital quote to pay. I looked at sports bras but have no idea what size I need so will rely on some old ones in my closet. My phone calendar is now on a daily countdown!


----------



## MissOrange

I was looking at my before explant photos on holiday and thinking, boy do I miss the attention! Lol. I doubt the Italian men ogling me knew I was a lady in my mature 50s! Lol. I miss looking Korean with my long black hair. Sigh. 2 years of dyeing my hair blonde has damaged and dried it out so much I doubt it will ever grow long again.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> I was looking at my before explant photos on holiday and thinking, boy do I miss the attention! Lol. I doubt the Italian men ogling me knew I was a lady in my mature 50s! Lol. I miss looking Korean with my long black hair. Sigh. 2 years of dyeing my hair blonde has damaged and dried it out so much I doubt it will ever grow long again.
> 
> View attachment 4810396
> 
> 
> View attachment 4810397


lmao, italian men are so shamelessly thirsty. You look good.  Have you tried Olaplex treatments for your hair? My friend used it with good results.


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## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> lmao, italian men are so shamelessly thirsty. You look good.  Have you tried Olaplex treatments for your hair? My friend used it with good results.


Thank you @Mazikeen. Yes the hair salons offer Olaplex treatments. Not sure how good it is. I am applying Argan oil daily to my hair. It makes it look a bit greasy but better that then super dry and frizzy.


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## MissOrange

Finally got the quotes for breast fat transfer to compare Korea, USA vs UK. Fresh is 4.4 million krw or £2,822 in a clinic based setting without separate anaesthetist so all the fee goes to Dr Hong who is not a board certified plastic surgeon minus nurse and translator fees. With the recent death of a Chinese lady getting breast FT and lipo in Seoul earlier this year, I am not prepared to risk death getting a procedure without a qualified doctor anaesthetist.

Dr Bednar, a board certified US plastic surgeon charges $11.5k (£8,740) in a clinic based setting with a nurse anaesthetist so all fees minus the nurse's fees go to Dr B. It is impossible for Brits to enter the US due to covid but if it were, with flights and hotel the total would be over £10k for one round.

Mr Floyd, a Cambridge graduate board certified plastic surgeon's surgical fee is £2,250, his consultant anaesthetist is £608 and the London Wellington private hospital GA daycase is £2790. Top up is £1k cheaper at the Wellington. It is also £1k cheaper in an outlier private hospital.

So instead of paying for flights £1k, 2 week Korean quarantine hospital for £1400, £2822 op and £400 hotel, I get to finally have my breast lipofilling with flank harvesting in a safe hospital setting by a board certified plastic surgeon who trained at Cambridge med school for the same as being a health tourist in Korea during the covid pandemic.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Finally got the quotes for breast fat transfer to compare Korea, USA vs UK. Fresh is 4.4 million krw or £2,822 in a clinic based setting without separate anaesthetist so all the fee goes to Dr Hong who is not a board certified plastic surgeon minus nurse and translator fees. With the recent death of a Chinese lady getting breast FT and lipo in Seoul earlier this year, I am not prepared to risk death getting a procedure without a qualified doctor anaesthetist.
> 
> Dr Bednar, a board certified US plastic surgeon charges $11.5k (£8,740) in a clinic based setting with a nurse anaesthetist so all fees minus the nurse's fees go to Dr B. It is impossible for Brits to enter the US due to covid but if it were, with flights and hotel the total would be over £10k for one round.
> 
> Mr Floyd, a Cambridge graduate board certified plastic surgeon's surgical fee is £2,250, his consultant anaesthetist is £608 and the London Wellington private hospital GA daycase is £2790. Top up is £1k cheaper at the Wellington. It is also £1k cheaper in an outlier private hospital.
> 
> So instead of paying for flights £1k, 2 week Korean quarantine hospital for £1400, £2822 op and £400 hotel, I get to finally have my breast lipofilling with flank harvesting in a safe hospital setting by a board certified plastic surgeon who trained at Cambridge med school for the same as being a health tourist in Korea during the covid pandemic.


Definitely makes sense to have it done in the UK.  Have you booked a surgery slot yet?


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## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Definitely makes sense to have it done in the UK.  Have you booked a surgery slot yet?


Hi @Mazikeen yes my breast fat transfer is on August 22! NICE changed the rules on self isolation in the U.K. prior to surgery so now I only have to self isolate for 3 days and not 14! Yay! I have already started drawing on selfies to see what I may look like! Here is one of my back. Can’t wait to get rid of the postmenopausal love handles that have arisen from drop in oestrogen and rise in cortisol with the menopause! In fact for postmenopausal women, maybe flank lipo is perfect as you can then have it transferred to your breasts or bum! After arm lipo, fat expanded in my bum which I don’t mind. My bum went from 33 inches to 34 inches! I am curious to see where fat will expand after lower back lipo for my breasts. I hope it expands in my chest on top of the fat transfer. When my weight is 95 lbs, my chest is 31 inches and when my weight is 100 lbs my chest is 32 inches. Normally I would say lose a few lbs before fat graft, but am hesitant as the surgeon may have difficulty harvesting if I go below 99 lbs. I was 101 lbs at consult last month and 100 lbs in the photo taken yesterday.

I haven’t heard back from Dr O about a date for thigh lift in  Belgium yet other than it can be done in September. Will pay and book my travel once I know. The U.K. today added Belgium to a 2 week quarantine on return which won’t stop me. Hope Belgium does not reciprocate with Brit arrivals as that would block my mini thigh lift! I looked up viola xoxo’s RS crescent thigh lift photos and that is exactly what I need. She even has the same preop markings!


----------



## Gats

Hi @MissOrange, do you know why type of lipo (traditional, laser?) he will do for the flanks and if anything special is being done to tighten that skin after the lipo? That's quite a bit of fat removed so I wonder if loose skin may result afterwards?


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Hi @MissOrange, do you know why type of lipo (traditional, laser?) he will do for the flanks and if anything special is being done to tighten that skin after the lipo? That's quite a bit of fat removed so I wonder if loose skin may result afterwards?


Good question @Gats. I found this on the Wellington hospital website on lipo. I am expecting a call from the surgeon before surgery so shall ask which lipo method he uses.


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## MissOrange

Woohoo. Booked and paid for my €2500 mini thigh lift op with Dr O in Belgium for the first week in September! I have to quarantine for 2 weeks when I get back from Belgium but that is ok. I reserved the Hotel van der valk as it has a sushi restaurant! I shall be holed up in my room eating sushi all day postop. Eurostar was very reasonable at £124 return including local Belgian trains. I think 2 weeks between ops are fine as I recall I was on a ski slope a week after my enbloc explant and lift! Now fingers crossed Belgium does not reciprocate with a 2w quarantine for Brits else I am in trouble!

This should complete my mini mummy makeover!


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## Mazikeen

Yay. And the countdown begins.


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## MissOrange

I am more obsessed with getting my thighs slimmer! I took photos and can definitely pinch more than an inch of loose skin. Can't wait to get slimmer thighs. 12 days to breast FT (I am a 32c preop) and 3.5 weeks to mini crescent thigh lift! Woohoo. My OH doesn't want me to go to Belgium which has the highest per capita covid death rate in Europe but I shall bring my covid meds to protect me.


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## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> I am more obsessed with getting my thighs slimmer! I took photos and can definitely pinch more than an inch of loose skin. Can't wait to get slimmer thighs. 12 days to breast FT (I am a 32c preop) and 3.5 weeks to mini crescent thigh lift! Woohoo. My OH doesn't want me to go to Belgium which has the highest per capita covid death rate in Europe but I shall bring my covid meds to protect me.
> 
> View attachment 4814849
> 
> 
> View attachment 4814850


Just wear your mask and keep social distancing and you`ll be ok.  Has Dr. Oh confirmed that it will definitely be a crescent lift?


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Just wear your mask and keep social distancing and you`ll be ok.  Has Dr. Oh confirmed that it will definitely be a crescent lift?


Dr Oelbrandt drew crescent lift markings at my consult last November so yes I believe so.


----------



## MissOrange

In 12 days I shall get breast fat transfer to hopefully give me a chest in between 34dd implants (summer 2018) and 32c explant (summer 2019). I am losing 3 lbs to regain postop. One more lb to go and 12 days left.


----------



## MissOrange

I found this web photo and it is exactly how I look post revision periareolar mastopexy July 2019! Dr Hong had called it an adhesion in January  but I remember David Floyd saying something about tuberous at consult last month so I googled and sure enough what I have is a type 1 tubular breast defect complication on the right side! It was never like this before in my life! With 9 days to go, I am now even more excited to get this fixed with fat graft. I have decided to lose 2 more lbs if possible before my surgery so that I can regain 3-5 lbs. A patient of David’s had the best retention but she gained half a stone postop, ie 7 lbs. Currently at 98.8 lbs, down from 101.8 lbs drinking probiotic actimel for breakfast.  Will aim for 96.8 lbs if possible.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> I found this web photo and it is exactly how I look post revision periareolar mastopexy July 2019! Dr Hong had called it an adhesion in January  but I remember David Floyd saying something about tuberous at consult last month so I googled and sure enough what I have is a type 1 tubular breast defect complication on the right side! It was never like this before in my life! With 9 days to go, I am now even more excited to get this fixed with fat graft. I have decided to lose 2 more lbs if possible before my surgery so that I can regain 3-5 lbs. A patient of David’s had the best retention but she gained half a stone postop, ie 7 lbs. Currently at 98.8 lbs, down from 101.8 lbs drinking probiotic actimel for breakfast.  Will aim for 96.8 lbs if possible.
> 
> View attachment 4817590



Wow! Had to google tubular breast defect.  How did that happen? Did you have implants b4?


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Wow! Had to google tubular breast defect.  How did that happen? Did you have implants b4?


@Mazikeen I have had 4 sets of implants later banned. All were either approved by Europe or the FDA. I think the en bloc explant removed breast tissue also. I have one week to go to hopefully have my final breast operation. It has been 24 years of surgeries for ruptured or subsequently banned implants. I would never recommend implants in ladies. US FDA approval or European CE approval is no guarantee the implant is safe as 4 sets trilucent soya, hydrogel, PIP and allergan textured silicone in me have all later been withdrawn as unsafe. I have had 7 breast surgeries and hope this fat transfer will be the final one on my breasts.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> @Mazikeen I have had 4 sets of implants later banned. All were either approved by Europe or the FDA. I think the en bloc explant removed breast tissue also. I have one week to go to hopefully have my final breast operation. It has been 24 years of surgeries for ruptured or subsequently banned implants. I would never recommend implants in ladies. US FDA approval or European CE approval is no guarantee the implant is safe as 4 sets trilucent soya, hydrogel, PIP and allergan textured silicone in me have all later been withdrawn as unsafe. I have had 7 breast surgeries and hope this fat transfer will be the final one on my breasts.


omg. my sympathies.  You are doing the right thing going for FG instead of new implants.  Are you nervous? The countdown has begun.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> omg. my sympathies.  You are doing the right thing going for FG instead of new implants.  Are you nervous? The countdown has begun.


@Mazikeen you have been super supportive! Thank you very much. 6 days to go. I have bought my support bra and garment for my flanks which will cover my thighs in case he uses my thighs too while under. I shall take doxycycline which protects against postop infections and covid! I need to decide on a loose outfit that is dark in colour in case of any leakage from the lipo sites. I can line my bedsheets with dog wee pads! I have to be at the hospital 7:30 am as a day case. Not looking forward to GA. I will have to remind the anaesthetist to give me iv ondansetron so I don’t wake up and vomit incessantly like I did back in January 2019 at explant in Birmingham. Sigh. I note my BP even dropped to 55/30 intraop from a blood pressure of 100/62 (see my theatre record)! I could have died! That’s insanely low. Too much opiates in theatre? I took photos of my surgical notes while waiting for my July op for revision areolar mastopexy under local. I have already listed my latex allergy which should get me put first on the list. 3 days before surgery the hospital will arrange my covid swab test and then I self isolate. I hope David is a morning person! Today I weigh 98.2 lbs. It is a balance between losing weight for stubborn fat and not having enough fat at all for fat graft. I am averaging 0.4 lb weight loss per day from a mix of excitement, stress and strictly no snacking. Plus I think this actimel drink really does make one lose weight. It feels like I am pooing out any fat I eat. Lol.


----------



## MissOrange

I took a collage comparing my thighs this morning (on the right) vs last November at consult (left). Aargh do I suggest a vertical thigh lift or do I see how mini crescent thigh lift goes? I shall bring my credit card just in case next month to Belgium. A full thigh lift in the U.K. costs £5.5k to £6.3k. I have opted for a crescent lift for €2500 in Belgium to try to avoid a vertical scar. I had one too many thigh lipos for facial fat graft. I think January 2020 ’done my thighs in’. Bear this in mind when harvesting fat. I think you have to limit fat harvesting to 2 or 3 times an area. I had my thighs lipo’d in 2004 and 2006 and then my thighs harvested for fat in July 2016, September 2016, April 2017, Feb 2018 and Jan 2020. My inner thighs are now ruined so definitely need fixing. I am praying Dr O can give me back good inner thighs in 3 weeks time!


----------



## Teina

You could take the card just in case. That's what I would do.


----------



## MissOrange

Getting nervous now. Tomorrow is breast FT day! I will not be cancelling 10 minutes before the operation. In hindsight it probably would have been fine with Dr Hong at Fresh back in January. I think I just panicked as I was taken by surprise that he was both the surgeon and anaesthetist. He has tons more experience performing fat transfer than any U.K. plastic surgeon. Sigh. Oh well things happen for a reason so I will stop dwelling on the past. I have taken lots of photos today to compare with my results when I wake up tomorrow. Wish me luck! Dreading getting GA as postop nausea is really bad if the anaesthetist does not give me enough antiemetics and overdoses me on opiates. Last GA in Birmingham I was asleep for several hours after the operation had finished and my BP kept dropping so the nurse did not let me sleep at night as she kept checking my BP throughout the night and calling the doctor.

Then in 2 weeks time I get my mini thigh lift. Everything is happening now.


----------



## tvxqgirl

Good luck @MissOrange !! My good wishes go with you! Hope the operation and your recovery goes smoothly


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange Good luck to you!!! And stay safe!!!


----------



## Mazikeen

Good luck ms.orange and looking forward to updates


----------



## MissOrange

I got the bargain of a century! David Floyd did full lower body lipo with breast FT for £5680! He lipo'd my back, love handles, 360 thighs, knees and gave me cleavage! He put 175 ccs in the right and 145 ccs in the left. No compression to allow breast FT to thrive and now for fat weight gain to feed the transferred fat cells.


----------



## MissOrange

MissOrange said:


> I got the bargain of a century! David Floyd did full lower body lipo with breast FT for £5680! He lipo'd my back, love handles, 360 thighs, knees and gave me cleavage! I told the retired NHS consultant anaesthetist about the doctor who was both doc and anaesthetist in Korea and he said nooooo. What if you need intubation?! The retired nhs consultant anaesthetist was the best! No pain, no nausea and didn't even ask for pain meds postop!


----------



## MissOrange

MissOrange said:


> I got the bargain of a century! David Floyd did full lower body lipo with breast FT for £5680! He lipo'd my back, love handles, 360 thighs, knees and gave me cleavage! In London lipo of each area costs £3-5k!


----------



## MissOrange

The general anesthesia was administered by a retired NHS consultant anaesthetist with decades of experience for £608, included in the £5.6k! I had no cutting throat pain from the tube, no cracked veneers, no feeling I was going to die as I could not breathe from too much nitrous oxide, no consent form to sign saying GA would be horrible like at DAPRS, no nausea or vomiting, no postop pain (did not even need paracetamol), no urinary retention (did not struggle to pee) and enjoyed my lunch and tea without throwing up. I did not even get to count to 10 to be put under! I was looking forward to counting to 10! He put the iv in in the holding room and suddenly I was out and back in my room! Magic! I told him about Korea and how I was asked to sign a consent form saying the doctor would do the iv anaesthesia himself and panicked and cancelled 10 minutes before the surgery. He was shocked and said but what if you need intubation? This is how patients died in Korea in clinics with no doctor anaesthetist. There was no equipment for intubation or a qualified doctor anaesthetist to perform one. The risk is too high if you are an ajumma like me and I am so sad for those who lost their lives needlessly in Korea. . Everything happened for a reason. I was meant to get it done in London. David even smoothed out and lipo’d my thigh lumps from Korea. I saved £5k getting it done here than with Dr B in USA. My breasts feel soft, no lumps, touch wood. I am not wearing any support bra. The fat cells need to expand and I am feeding it fatty foods! Lol.

Korea is for facial fat graft as no where in the world have they perfected it except for Dr Rajendra Shah in Illinois. Also Asian eyes are better done in Korea as is facial bone contouring. I guess the take home message is if you can get it done in a proper hospital then do, else only go to Korea for procedures they do not do well in the West.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is my day 0 photo. I am HUGE! Like a Bednar patient. Don’t get implants, get fat transfer! Boy have I missed my big boobs these past 19 months since en bloc explant. Lol. David Floyd lipo’d every ounce of fat from my lower body. There is nothing left for a second round so fingers crossed! Thank goodness I gained experience in fat graft retention for my face. Lose weight preop then feed the fat and gain postop. Tomorrow I remove my compression garment to take a bath and take photos of the lipo’d sites. What if I don’t need mini thigh lift anymore? I will know more tomorrow. Going to sleep now. No pain.


----------



## Teina

Looking great, im so glad that you a great deal!!! I wish you the best  .


----------



## Phoenix123

Hello, @MissOrange !  I found you and followed you here from the FB FT page!  Hope you don't mind.  (Hope that doesn't sound stalk-ish, lol).

I am super interested in your FT journey.  I was supposed to have an enbloc capsulectomy with David Floyd earlier this year but cancelled it due to Covid.  I had an explant + FT with a local surgeon here in Singapore.  Half of my fat transferred has now been re-absorbed and I think I have tubular breasts, so the upper poles are now completely empty/even concaved.  I need to have a second FT and am glad to see that David Floyd seems to have done right by you.  I cannot believe how few bruises you have and how you're up and about and planning to take a bath the day after surgery.  I could hardly move for several days post-op, and was very badly bruised.  

Look fwd to your updates.

Btw, you look amazing!!  You look several decades younger than your age.  I am also needing something done to my ageing face.  BII and Botox have ravaged my once youthful face!


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @Phoenix123,

I am flattered you found me here too! Yes I had a bath this morning at 6 am to unveil my flank, thighs and knees after they had been harvested for fat for my breasts. I was dreading what my thighs would look like as it was the 8th time they have been liposuctioned! I told David twice as I was too embarrassed to admit the real number. He did such an amazing job I emailed to cancel my thigh lift with Dr Oelbrandt in Belgium, like literally I had 2 days left to cancel for a full refund and no penalties.

Why did you pick Singapore for your en bloc explant with FT? Singapore is super expensive? Is that where your family lives. They say fat transfer at the same time as explant has less chance of sticking. Still if half remained that is great as 50% retention is normal. If the U.K. is easy for you, then yes David Floyd looks like the UK’s version of Dr Bednar. My breasts are huge today. I think he overfilled them like they do in USA and Korea for better retention after reabsorption or they have swollen up today but it is only 24 hours so not sure as swelling usually occurs on days 2-3. Either way I will be happy when they go down in size a bit as they look HUGE!

To look young, see Dr Seo for facial fat graft. He now works in his own clinic Machimpyo. Korea is closer to Singapore than London is. He rejuvenated my face.

Today when I unveiled my thighs they looked perfect! Like where are the bruises from lipo? Where was the hanging fat flab? Where was the loose skin? No swelling, no tumescent fluid and the circumference was 18 inches! No waiting 3 months to see the final results. It went down an inch just from traditional old fashioned liposuction without Vaser ultrasound, waterjet harvest, laser lipo or power assisted lipo! Seeing is believing! So not only did I get breast FT that makes me look like I have double d implants again but my thighs got a free liposuction with smoothing of all the lumps and tightening of the skin! Magic! I love my young skinny thighs!!!

I have now removed all the sutures at 24 hours postop and covered with steristrips to minimise scarring as my atopic skin condition reacts to foreign material. The lipo holes were made one under each breast, one under each thigh closer to the knee, one on each hip and one on my sacrum. That one was a nightmare to cut out! Who can see their own bum? Lol. Dr Bednar’s patients seem to get numerous needle marks on their breasts. Amazing how David pumped up my breasts with fat from one port hole under each breast!


----------



## Phoenix123

@MissOrange , I am still shocked at your amazing progress!!  I couldn't even go to the toilet without help for several days.  Even at 1-2 weeks post-op, I needed help to take a shower (well, washing my "bits" and under-arms).  How did you step into the bath and come out just 1 day post-op???!!  My pain from the lipo site was tremendous!!

Your thighs look fabulous too!!  I really wish I could have gone to David Floyd too.  I live in Singapore, hence the reason for having the op here.  My father and siblings and extended family live in London and am from there.  I was going to visit them and had my procedure there.  But like I mentioned, Covid happened.  You're right. SG is horrendously expensive!!  I paid multiple times what you paid.  So not happy about that!  But I was suffering so much from BII.

I chose to have the FT at the same time as explant, as I had a benign lump removed and didn't want to look deformed.  Glad to hear you say that 50% retention is not too bad.  I had 260cc approx injected into each breast and am now a B cup (originally A cup naturally).  It's the lack of volume on the upper poles that bothers me the most.  I hope my next FT won't be such a big deal since I really only want a little bit of fat extracted and transferred to "correct" the upper poles.  I will contact Sheila and see if I can make an appt soon.  I am very encouraged now that I've seen yr posts.

Thank you for recommending Dr Seo to me.  I will look him up.  Do you think FT to the face stays?  Is the retention better than FT to breasts - assuming I only get it done once?  Need to wait til the Covid situation improves.  This Covid has really messed everything up!!

I'd love to see updated pics of your boobs, if you wouldn't mind please.

Thanks for responding and I will continue to watch this thread with interest. x


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> @MissOrange , I am still shocked at your amazing progress!!  I couldn't even go to the toilet without help for several days.  Even at 1-2 weeks post-op, I needed help to take a shower (well, washing my "bits" and under-arms).  How did you step into the bath and come out just 1 day post-op???!!  My pain from the lipo site was tremendous!!
> 
> Your thighs look fabulous too!!  I really wish I could have gone to David Floyd too.  I live in Singapore, hence the reason for having the op here.  My father and siblings and extended family live in London and am from there.  I was going to visit them and had my procedure there.  But like I mentioned, Covid happened.  You're right. SG is horrendously expensive!!  I paid multiple times what you paid.  So not happy about that!  But I was suffering so much from BII.
> 
> I chose to have the FT at the same time as explant, as I had a benign lump removed and didn't want to look deformed.  Glad to hear you say that 50% retention is not too bad.  I had 260cc approx injected into each breast and am now a B cup (originally A cup naturally).  It's the lack of volume on the upper poles that bothers me the most.  I hope my next FT won't be such a big deal since I really only want a little bit of fat extracted and transferred to "correct" the upper poles.  I will contact Sheila and see if I can make an appt soon.  I am very encouraged now that I've seen yr posts.
> 
> Thank you for recommending Dr Seo to me.  I will look him up.  Do you think FT to the face stays?  Is the retention better than FT to breasts - assuming I only get it done once?  Need to wait til the Covid situation improves.  This Covid has really messed everything up!!
> 
> I'd love to see updated pics of your boobs, if you wouldn't mind please.
> 
> Thanks for responding and I will continue to watch this thread with interest. x


@Phoenix123 Wow you paid multiples of what I paid David! Ouch! But yes covid messed up lots of surgeries and consultations. BII is awful so getting it out ASAP is wise.

The key to retention of fat is to lose weight 3-5 lbs ideally and then resistant fat is harvested into the breasts or face. Then gain weight back to your ideal weight and eat lots of fatty foods. I found this worked for my face fat graft. I didn’t need the second top up with Dr Seo in January this year as I was 5 lbs underweight and just needed to gain weight back up to my ideal but having the top up means I now have plenty of fat cells in my face so no need for any more fat grafting for years to come.

I posted more photos today in the closed FT FB group. This TPF site is accessed by both sexes so I should not really be posting my breasts here and the site does not allow one to delete the photos once posted, unlike the FB and realself sites! Ouch! Oh well, good thing I am 54 as no one is really interested in looking at an ajumma’s boobs. Lol.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> @Phoenix123 Wow you paid multiples of what I paid David! Ouch! But yes covid messed up lots of surgeries and consultations. BII is awful so getting it out ASAP is wise.
> 
> The key to retention of fat is to lose weight 3-5 lbs ideally and then resistant fat is harvested into the breasts or face. Then gain weight back to your ideal weight and eat lots of fatty foods. I found this worked for my face fat graft. I didn’t need the second top up with Dr Seo in January this year as I was 5 lbs underweight and just needed to gain weight back up to my ideal but having the top up means I now have plenty of fat cells in my face so no need for any more fat grafting for years to come.
> 
> I posted more photos today in the closed FT FB group. This TPF site is accessed by both sexes so I should not really be posting my breasts here and the site does not allow one to delete the photos once posted, unlike the FB and realself sites! Ouch! Oh well, good thing I am 54 as no one is really interested in looking at an ajumma’s boobs. Lol.



I must admit I didn't know about the "stubborn" fat until after I'd had the op.  That's so great that you won't need more fat grafting to the face for several more years.  I'll take that! lol

Yes, I forgot.  Apologies.  I'll go and check your FB postings now.

Thank you again for responding so quickly.

(You really don't look your age - at all).


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a collage of my right stubborn fat area that David Floyd used for my breast FT among other areas of my lower body. The result in one day is remarkable. I can no longer pinch fat and neither does it hang like a blob of loose skin! I love this pic collage app! So pleased I do not need a vertical scar thigh lift! 19 inch fat thigh on the left vs 18 inch young slim thigh on the right and all included in the price of breast fat transfer! Even getting implants doesn't include lipo! lol. So chuffed to have 20s thighs now to match my skinny arms. lol.

I am now done with plastic surgery until my 60s. My body says enough! lol.


----------



## Teina

How was he able to make your thigh skin tighter without a lift? Are you sure it's not from swelling and extra fluid build up?


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> How was he able to make your thigh skin tighter without a lift? Are you sure it's not from swelling and extra fluid build up?


Hi @Teina,

Swelling occurs at 2-3 days postop for me. I always got facial swelling post FT at 2-3 days just as I would fly home from korea. The thigh after was at 24 hours. He did not use tumescent fluid just old-fashioned liposuction. This older method worked wonders back in 2004 to lipo my tummy and thighs, ie instant skinny legs and tummy with no swelling. He was very gentle as there are no bruises on my thighs, only around my knees. Bruising can be a sign of soft tissue trauma which is more likely to lead to swelling and lack of bruising a sign of minimal trauma so minimal swelling if any.

I am wearing the compression garment on my thighs 24/7 as it is vital for the skin to adhere to the soft tissues. I guess it is like chin or neck lipo, suddenly one can see a jawline appear once the flab has been suctioned assuming one has good skin elasticity. You can test by pinching the skin on the top of your hand, ie the dorsum. If you let go and the skin drops instantly, you have good skin elasticity but if it takes a few seconds, your elasticity is not as good making one prone to skin sagging.

I must admit I do worry the thigh skin will suddenly sag as it has been liposuctioned 8 times now since 2004, but my skin collagen and elasticity seem to be very good for my age, as I avoid the sun, spent most of my life indoors either at school, working in hospitals never seeing the light of day or working in GP surgeries and in retirement spent indoors at home watching k dramas and films on netflix in a country which rains a lot and rarely gets sun and of course I do not smoke as smoking affects blood supply to the skin which then destroys collagen and skin elasticity. I was never one for sunbathing and have never had extreme weight gain or extreme weight loss which would overstretch the skin which then may adversely affect elasticity. I did look into a mini thigh lift after the 7th thigh lipo (unexpected facial FT in Jan and an add on in the evening so did not bring a compression garment and the surgeon was in a rush) as my thighs ended up dented, lumpy and had flab but for now the 8th one which was not done in a hurry but with care and consideration seems to have removed the lumps and smoothened my thighs. The UK surgeon had said at consult he could remove the lumps and smoothen the thighs but that for the first round of breast FT he would just use my love handles. As I lost weight before the surgery to allow only resistant fat to remain, he noted I now didn't have enough fat in my flanks so took from my stubborn fatty thighs. My right thigh was always fat and 19 inches even when I weighed only 95 lbs so definitely had stubborn fat cells. For now I can postpone thigh lift to my 60s as thigh scars may be unsightly and permanent!

Will be checking my thighs daily each time I remove the garment to bathe. Fingers crossed the thigh lipo stays as good as my arm lipo results from a year ago. Each year I get older I am acutely aware my skin may lose its elasticity and may not heal as well as a younger person and with each GA comes the risk of familial stroke for me, so for now I am done with plastic surgery. My post menopause fatty arms and thighs have now been sorted.


----------



## Mazikeen

Happy that your FT went well.  And the thighs look fab.  So did you cancel the thigh lift or will you still have it done?


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Happy that your FT went well.  And the thighs look fab.  So did you cancel the thigh lift or will you still have it done?


Hi @Mazikeen, I cancelled the mini thigh lift. Day 2 and my thighs and breasts are swollen. With swelling comes pain!!! I now have a stiff back and muscle aches and pains! Aargh. I can’t face any more surgery. I forgot the pain and immobility. The compression garment is way too tight now and hurts! Dr O will refund me when he gets back from holiday. I had paid the full amount in advance!


----------



## Gats

Hi @MissOrange, did you provide your own thigh compression garment which was given to you during one of your previous fat grafts where they took fat from the thighs? I thought the Korean clinics only bandage your thigh up for lipo for fg and do not require it? Did you wear them after every fg previously? I'm curious if not using compression garment after every fg could result in the lipo'ed thighs sagging later in life.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Mazikeen, I cancelled the mini thigh lift. Day 2 and my thighs and breasts are swollen. With swelling comes pain!!! I now have a stiff back and muscle aches and pains! Aargh. I can’t face any more surgery. I forgot the pain and immobility. The compression garment is way too tight now and hurts! Dr O will refund me when he gets back from holiday. I had paid the full amount in advance!


You could purchase training compression tights.  They are more comfortable.








						Compression Tights
					

Designed to deliver the ultimate in performance to help elevate your running & training. Our compression tights will help reduce the risk of injury and speed up recovery to keep you performing at your best.




					www.2xu.com


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Hi @MissOrange, did you provide your own thigh compression garment which was given to you during one of your previous fat grafts where they took fat from the thighs? I thought the Korean clinics only bandage your thigh up for lipo for fg and do not require it? Did you wear them after every fg previously? I'm curious if not using compression garment after every fg could result in the lipo'ed thighs sagging later in life.


Hi @Gats, DA clinic did not fit me with any thigh compression bandages post fat graft harvesting. MVP did fit me with bandages. So yes, I think for the times I was not provided with bandages in 2016-17 at DA clinic, it may have started the thigh skin sagging. I think of the 3 times I went to DA for facial fat graft, I finally complained the last time and wouldn’t leave until they provided me with bandages for my thighs.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> You could purchase training compression tights.  They are more comfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compression Tights
> 
> 
> Designed to deliver the ultimate in performance to help elevate your running & training. Our compression tights will help reduce the risk of injury and speed up recovery to keep you performing at your best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.2xu.com


Thanks @Mazikeen! I shall look up this garment!


----------



## MissOrange

Post op day 3 and I tried on a 32d bra. It fits with a bit of spillage on the sides. The tops of my thighs have a bit of loose skin again but recovery is now rough as the GA has worn off and I feel like I have been beaten up all over my back and legs! I probably will need a crescent thigh lift in the future but not anytime soon as I can’t stand being an invalid in pain in bed! I weigh 102.2 lbs today which means I probably have fluid retention as I weighed 99.4 lbs on the morning of my surgery. I hope the thigh skin does not loosen more as I deswell. I have wrapped my thighs up in some old MVP bandages for now.

Dr Oelbrandt got back to me and will issue a refund when he is back from holiday mid September. It is good to know that he refunds if you give at least 10 days notice and if it is less than 10 days, he charges €300, more on the day.


----------



## MissOrange

I found this diagram of the measurements for the perfect breasts on Dr Seo’s Machimpyo website! My b and c lines were 22 cms and e was 1 cm on the right after a failed donut lift by a U.K. surgeon. I haven’t measured since breast FT. Will do once I have deswelled. Meanwhile you can get out your tape measure and see how close you are to having perfect breasts!


----------



## Mazikeen

Your boobs look good. He filled them nicely.  Were you given any special bra to wear post- surgery? To minimize the loose skin maybe wear the compression 24/7 for the first few weeks if you can.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Your boobs look good. He filled them nicely.  Were you given any special bra to wear post- surgery? To minimize the loose skin maybe wear the compression 24/7 for the first few weeks if you can.


Thanks @Mazikeen, I was given a bra to wear in hospital but I have chosen not to wear any bra. Imagine getting facial FT and wearing a tight bandage around the head squashing the fat graft? Nope. Grafted fat cells need to expand and breathe! The climate is cool here in the U.K. so this is good as extreme heat kills newly grafted fat cells.

As for my thighs, yes absolutely wearing any diy compression I can make. I cut off the top part of the small Chinese brand Spanx as it was way too tight around my hips and also found a support pantyhose that fits so I cut off the hose below the knees. Today I ate chips, sausage and ice cream! Each day I try to make it a point to have at least one meal high in fat. I deswelled a bit today as my weight went down a lb to 101 and my breasts remained a full D cup, so this is good!

Tomorrow I see David’s nurse for a wound check and dressing change. She will be surprised as there are no stitches or dressings! Oh well, she can just clean the 7 port hole sites.

If I were to need a mini thigh lift after recovery from liposuction, then I shall look into it next year. I think my face and body have taken a toll this year and it needs time to recover completely. So far no lumps or cysts. I am glad U.K. surgeons limit the amount of fat transferred to minimise risk of these complications.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 6 and I finally looked at my thighs again. The right one looks fine. The left one has a little bulge at the top but hoping the skin will retract as I continue to deswell. Using heat pads on my back for the pain from lipo bruising.


----------



## Tremere

I'm thinking of getting fat transfer to the breasts too, along with a mastopexy.


----------



## Phoenix123

@MissOrange , hope you're not in too much pain.  How are the girls doing?


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> @MissOrange , hope you're not in too much pain.  How are the girls doing?


Hi @Phoenix123 I got emotional today. I am truly happy and look like I have implants! They don’t look droopy but have projection! Shame I am not going on a beach holiday this summer to flaunt my new figure in a bikini! Can’t believe the magic of breast FT. I could have saved myself 7 breast surgeries had fat transfer been around back in 1996. Today my skin nerve sensation is returning with pins and needles sensation over all the lipo sites. My lower body is still sore so still on paracetamol but not stopping me move about the house. I have almost finished the tube of arnica cream. I am going to continue to apply haelan tape to the hypertrophic scars until the tape runs out and I see Dr Hussein re vascular laser with steroid injections.

I was watching botched and a lady had trouble answering the question how many procedures she had. I counted and my total is 33! I don’t tell the surgeons that as in Korea if you do, they will add lots more procedures and bump up the quote as they know you are an addict! I am trying my best to limit to 1 procedure a year but this year and last year I had 2! I may get a mini thigh lift next year but will see how my thighs heal as I know lipo takes 3 months for full recovery.

Having experienced threadlift temporarily and seen the change to the appearance of my face, I am putting off a FL until my 60s as it can potentially change your appearance permanently and make you look like a different person. I am not prepared to wake up and not recognise the person in the mirror! Lol.


----------



## cherrykiss

Hi MissOrange, just wanted to say "THANK YOU" for all your years of posting on this forum and offering both a medical as well as personal account of everything. I myself have also had a "few"  things done in the past. Mostly to my face in my early twenties. I'm now also more in a cruising mode so I check in on this forum from time to time.

This year, I was planning on a KR trip but everything to pushed back because of COVID. Definitely still planning on it and I was actually thinking about doing the same thing you are. FT to chest and lipo overall. Do you have any concerns that FT to breast would cause sagging?

Are you staying longer overseas in case they need to do a 2nd op? I hear FT usually better after doing 2x...

(Edit): Also additional question... do you use Tretinoin or Retin-A for your skincare regime?


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Phoenix123 I got emotional today. I am truly happy and look like I have implants! They don’t look droopy but have projection! Shame I am not going on a beach holiday this summer to flaunt my new figure in a bikini! Can’t believe the magic of breast FT. I could have saved myself 7 breast surgeries had fat transfer been around back in 1996. Today my skin nerve sensation is returning with pins and needles sensation over all the lipo sites. My lower body is still sore so still on paracetamol but not stopping me move about the house. I have almost finished the tube of arnica cream. I am going to continue to apply haelan tape to the hypertrophic scars until the tape runs out and I see Dr Hussein re vascular laser with steroid injections.
> 
> I was watching botched and a lady had trouble answering the question how many procedures she had. I counted and my total is 33! I don’t tell the surgeons that as in Korea if you do, they will add lots more procedures and bump up the quote as they know you are an addict! I am trying my best to limit to 1 procedure a year but this year and last year I had 2! I may get a mini thigh lift next year but will see how my thighs heal as I know lipo takes 3 months for full recovery.
> 
> Having experienced threadlift temporarily and seen the change to the appearance of my face, I am putting off a FL until my 60s as it can potentially change your appearance permanently and make you look like a different person. I am not prepared to wake up and not recognise the person in the mirror! Lol.



That's really great!!  Sooo happy for you!!

The laser with steroid injections are to lessen the scars?  I need something like that.  My scars are not great.

Does threadlift really work?  I keep reading that they don't work.   Also, you can feel the "cones" on your face. What kind of threadlift did you have?  I've consulted with Dr Martin Huang here in Singapore and he's suggested a silhouette lift.  The cost is very high, the equivalent of 10k pounds, and I'd be extremely upset if it didn't work, ie. if the effect didn't last beyond a year or so...Well, not just the cost, but also the pain I'd have to endure.


----------



## Phoenix123

Btw, @MissOrange , have you heard of vampire breast lift and/or vampire facial?  I am sure you have.  I am not sure if they work either.  I really don't want another surgery.  I just need my breast upper poles to fill out a little.  I also read some vampire "thingy" they do to rejuvenate the face and lift the jaws and help lessen jowls.


----------



## Phoenix123

cherrykiss said:


> Hi MissOrange, just wanted to say "THANK YOU" for all your years of posting on this forum and offering both a medical as well as personal account of everything. I myself have also had a "few"  things done in the past. Mostly to my face in my early twenties. I'm now also more in a cruising mode so I check in on this forum from time to time.
> 
> This year, I was planning on a KR trip but everything to pushed back because of COVID. Definitely still planning on it and I was actually thinking about doing the same thing you are. FT to chest and lipo overall. Do you have any concerns that FT to breast would cause sagging?
> 
> Are you staying longer overseas in case they need to do a 2nd op? I hear FT usually better after doing 2x...
> 
> (Edit): Also additional question... do you use Tretinoin or Retin-A for your skincare regime?



+1

Very grateful for your contribution.


----------



## MissOrange

cherrykiss said:


> Hi MissOrange, just wanted to say "THANK YOU" for all your years of posting on this forum and offering both a medical as well as personal account of everything. I myself have also had a "few"  things done in the past. Mostly to my face in my early twenties. I'm now also more in a cruising mode so I check in on this forum from time to time.
> 
> This year, I was planning on a KR trip but everything to pushed back because of COVID. Definitely still planning on it and I was actually thinking about doing the same thing you are. FT to chest and lipo overall. Do you have any concerns that FT to breast would cause sagging?
> 
> Are you staying longer overseas in case they need to do a 2nd op? I hear FT usually better after doing 2x...
> 
> (Edit): Also additional question... do you use Tretinoin or Retin-A for your skincare regime?


Hi @cherrykiss,

Thank you for your nice feedback. I am not in Korea. I had my breast FT in London. In Korea, I could only find Dr Hong at Fresh who gets good breast FT with lipo results as Dr Seo does not do breast FT. As I was not comfortable with Dr Hong administering the IV sedation cocktail I cancelled with him and 7 months later had it done by Dr David Floyd in London with an attending anaesthetist and in a private hospital. As I am in my 50s, I thought it safer to have this procedure in a hospital with a doctor anaesthetist. If you are okay with Dr Hong doing both the surgery and sedation, then you can try Fresh clinic for 4.4 million won, which is half what I ended up paying here in the U.K. as I had to factor in the hospital cost and the anaesthetist here too.

Good question about sagging. I too was worried that if too much fat was put in my breasts, they would sag more as fat weighs! But the theory of reinflating a balloon has worked. The breasts have actually lifted with the additional volume!

Today is day 9 and I have lost 2 lbs of swelling and fluid. Thankfully my chest is still the same size as when I awoke from surgery as I have been eating fat every day...McDonald’s, croissants, ice cream, sausage and chips, roast dinners, etc. The cream in the photo is arnica. I have almost finished the tube putting it on all my bruises. Arnica works wonders on surgical bruising!


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> Btw, @MissOrange , have you heard of vampire breast lift and/or vampire facial?  I am sure you have.  I am not sure if they work either.  I really don't want another surgery.  I just need my breast upper poles to fill out a little.  I also read some vampire "thingy" they do to rejuvenate the face and lift the jaws and help lessen jowls.


Hi @Phoenix123 Yes I have heard of a vampire facial but I think it is a gimmick. To fill out your upper poles, it needs more fat, either from putting on weight or with further fat transfer. The good news is that my strategy of losing weight before fat transfer surgery and then gaining weight post, seems to be working for retention of the fat cells thus far. I have to wait to 3-4 months to know for sure about retention but will keep feeding the fat. I definitely will not be doing a second round. Recovery from lower body lipo was rough!


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> That's really great!!  Sooo happy for you!!
> 
> The laser with steroid injections are to lessen the scars?  I need something like that.  My scars are not great.
> 
> Does threadlift really work?  I keep reading that they don't work.   Also, you can feel the "cones" on your face. What kind of threadlift did you have?  I've consulted with Dr Martin Huang here in Singapore and he's suggested a silhouette lift.  The cost is very high, the equivalent of 10k pounds, and I'd be extremely upset if it didn't work, ie. if the effect didn't last beyond a year or so...Well, not just the cost, but also the pain I'd have to endure.


@Phoenix123 10,000 pounds for threadlift??? Is that sterling pounds? OMG! I can’t afford to live in Singapore! Threadlifts are temporary like fillers and Botox. A dissolvable stitch is placed under the skin to pull up the face but it dissolves in 6 months and may make the skin more lax as the surgeon is loosening up the skin to insert the thread each time you have it done. If you look back through my pages, I share my experience with threadlift for 24 hours.


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @Phoenix123

Here is why I booked to see Dr H next month to look at my hypertrophic scars. Here is his ig b+a. My friend said she trained under him and says he is a laser doc genius! Having had 2 pursestring periareolar sutures during 2 periareolar mastopexies have led to a lot of skin tension and hypertrophic scarring. Hoping he can do laser to flatten and reduce the scars.


----------



## MissOrange

I love the free pic collage app! You can do so many b+a's! Wow thigh lipo did not ruin my thighs but improved them (top pic is today)! I had such a huge wad of resistant fat in my right inner thigh and my left inner thigh was so wrinkled. The surgeon must have enjoyed suctioning out that area! Lots of fat! I am never taking off my cotton leggings. Need to make sure the lipo space closes and the thigh skin retracts completely.


----------



## cherrykiss

Phoenix123 said:


> Does threadlift really work?  I keep reading that they don't work.   Also, you can feel the "cones" on your face. What kind of threadlift did you have?  I've consulted with Dr Martin Huang here in Singapore and he's suggested a silhouette lift.  The cost is very high, the equivalent of 10k pounds, and I'd be extremely upset if it didn't work, ie. if the effect didn't last beyond a year or so...Well, not just the cost, but also the pain I'd have to endure.



Also agree that Threadlift is unfortunately temporary  I had 2-jaw surgery + zygoma reduction with threadlift right after. Sadly I still have sagging near the lower jowels which I'm going to resolve with either with lipo in the area or some other method.... (still deciding)


----------



## cherrykiss

MissOrange said:


> Good question about sagging. I too was worried that if too much fat was put in my breasts, they would sag more as fat weighs! But the theory of reinflating a balloon has worked. The breasts have actually lifted with the additional volume!



You're looking amazing post op!

Gotcha, thanks for the heads up about the anesthesia concern. I haven't thought about it that way before but that's a great point.


----------



## MissOrange

cherrykiss said:


> Also agree that Threadlift is unfortunately temporary  I had 2-jaw surgery + zygoma reduction with threadlift right after. Sadly I still have sagging near the lower jowels which I'm going to resolve with either with lipo in the area or some other method.... (still deciding)


Really sorry you got sagging @cherrykiss. It looks like after bone contouring surgery, a facelift becomes inevitable. Wow you are brave to have done 2 jaw and zygoma! You must have a beautiful small face!


----------



## cherrykiss

MissOrange said:


> Really sorry you got sagging @cherrykiss. It looks like after bone contouring surgery, a facelift becomes inevitable. Wow you are brave to have done 2 jaw and zygoma! You must have a beautiful small face!



Haha thank you . My face has always been larger than average and even now it's definitely still big. But with all that bone work + eye and nose surgeries, things are much more proportionate now.

Yes changing the bone I think is inevitable for sagging but no regrets on doing what I did (maybe would've picked some diff clinics but live and learn is all we can do). I think sagging will be an easier issue to address...._hopefully_... but that is still pending a chat with the doctors in KR. I'll definitely post some B/A photos depending on how things go. Ideally the 14 day mandatory quarantine ends soon but with the US track record I highly doubt KR is anxiously accepting any of us at the moment


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Phoenix123
> 
> Here is why I booked to see Dr H next month to look at my hypertrophic scars. Here is his ig b+a. My friend said she trained under him and says he is a laser doc genius! Having had 2 pursestring periareolar sutures during 2 periareolar mastopexies have led to a lot of skin tension and hypertrophic scarring. Hoping he can do laser to flatten and reduce the scars.
> 
> View attachment 4833806



That's amazing work!!


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Phoenix123 Yes I have heard of a vampire facial but I think it is a gimmick. To fill out your upper poles, it needs more fat, either from putting on weight or with further fat transfer. The good news is that my strategy of losing weight before fat transfer surgery and then gaining weight post, seems to be working for retention of the fat cells thus far. I have to wait to 3-4 months to know for sure about retention but will keep feeding the fat. I definitely will not be doing a second round. Recovery from lower body lipo was rough!



Agreed on the recovery post-lipo.  It is brutal!!

Hmm...so disappointing!  I was hoping not to have surgery again!

Maybe I can look into doing lipo under mild sedation (so not GA), and a very small fat transfer to the upper poles.  Would you suggest that?  I am afraid I might wake up half-way!  Arrrghhh!!


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> @Phoenix123 10,000 pounds for threadlift??? Is that sterling pounds? OMG! I can’t afford to live in Singapore! Threadlifts are temporary like fillers and Botox. A dissolvable stitch is placed under the skin to pull up the face but it dissolves in 6 months and may make the skin more lax as the surgeon is loosening up the skin to insert the thread each time you have it done. If you look back through my pages, I share my experience with threadlift for 24 hours.



Yes!!  I was quoted close to SGD20k which is the equivalent of roughly 10k pounds.  SG* is* very expensive!!

So disappointing about threadlift being temporary.  I will look through your previous pages, thank you.

What can one do about sagging jowls and deep marionette's lines?  The upper half of my face is actually not too bad, but the lower half is ageing and it depresses me.  I propped it up with fillers before but am staying away from all injectables now.


----------



## MissOrange

Wow the clinic and surgeon were named...Ollim clinic! The one where the Hong Kong heiress died in January this year from breast fat transfer (breast augmentation with liposuction)! This could have been me! ”It was alleged that no anaesthetists were present during the operation and Kim had instructed Jung to inject a mixture of sedatives including ketamine and midazolam into Law, who suffered complications and was declared dead an hour after being admitted to hospital.” She died on January 28. I was overcome with anxiety and panic attack on January 17 when I read the consent form said Dr Hong would administer the ketamine, midazolam and propofol himself. When one’s intuition goes crazy saying NO! Don’t take the risk! I listened. Thank goodness I could get 90% refund on the day. Why don’t Korean surgeons just pay 600,000 won to a qualified anaesthetist doctor? A U.K. anaesthetist costs £600. If Dr Hong had said I can hire a doctor anaesthetist for 600,000 more won I would say fine and then I could speak with the doctor anaesthetist too.

https://www.scmp.com/news/article/3...died-during-plastic-surgery-withdraws-lawsuit


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> Yes!!  I was quoted close to SGD20k which is the equivalent of roughly 10k pounds.  SG* is* very expensive!!
> 
> So disappointing about threadlift being temporary.  I will look through your previous pages, thank you.
> 
> What can one do about sagging jowls and deep marionette's lines?  The upper half of my face is actually not too bad, but the lower half is ageing and it depresses me.  I propped it up with fillers before but am staying away from all injectables now.


Hi @Phoenix123 for the lower face the choices are fat transfer, fillers or smas facelift. I use radiesse nasolabial fillers once a year but since I had my facial FT by Dr Seo I have not needed anything for my jowls as they are lifted with fat and hydration. I realised there is a technique for fat graft survival, ie lose 3-5 lbs preop and then regain postop. Of course if I lost too much weight or got dehydrated on a super hot day, my lower face would sag as does my puppy’s face! Her face looks like it is sucked in when she is dehydrated and then plumps up when she has rehydrated. You could keep a fluid diary and see if you are drinking enough water each day.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Wow the clinic and surgeon were named...Ollim clinic! The one where the Hong Kong heiress died in January this year from breast fat transfer (breast augmentation with liposuction)! This could have been me! ”It was alleged that no anaesthetists were present during the operation and Kim had instructed Jung to inject a mixture of sedatives including ketamine and midazolam into Law, who suffered complications and was declared dead an hour after being admitted to hospital.” She died on January 28. I was overcome with anxiety and panic attack on January 17 when I read the consent form said Dr Hong would administer the ketamine, midazolam and propofol himself. When one’s intuition goes crazy saying NO! Don’t take the risk! I listened. Thank goodness I could get 90% refund on the day. Why don’t Korean surgeons just pay 600,000 won to a qualified anaesthetist doctor? A U.K. anaesthetist costs £600. If Dr Hong had said I can hire a doctor anaesthetist for 600,000 more won I would say fine and then I could speak with the doctor anaesthetist too.
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/article/3...died-during-plastic-surgery-withdraws-lawsuit



OMG!!

I too stay away from surgeries whereby the Dr performing the procedure also administers the anaesthetic.  I had a minor procedure about 2 years ago (non-cosmetic) and the first Dr I consulted wanted to do this.  Needless to say, I RAN!!


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Phoenix123 for the lower face the choices are fat transfer, fillers or smas facelift. I use radiesse nasolabial fillers once a year but since I had my facial FT by Dr Seo I have not needed anything for my jowls as they are lifted with fat and hydration. I realised there is a technique for fat graft survival, ie lose 3-5 lbs preop and then regain postop. Of course if I lost too much weight or got dehydrated on a super hot day, my lower face would sag as does my puppy’s face! Her face looks like it is sucked in when she is dehydrated and then plumps up when she has rehydrated. You could keep a fluid diary and see if you are drinking enough water each day.



Ok, FT sounds good.   I looked up Dr Olivier Amar, based in London.  He's on IG.  Have you heard of him.  Is he good?

Also, Dr Dominic Bray, also based in London, performs deep plane facelifts.  I also follow him on IG.  I think this FL may be a bit too extensive for me and am scared of any such procedure.

I haven't heard of smas FL.  But will look it up now.

I drink so much water - probably 3 to 4 litres a day. My sagging jowls are sadly, to do with age.

How's your recovery going today?


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> Ok, FT sounds good.   I looked up Dr Olivier Amar, based in London.  He's on IG.  Have you heard of him.  Is he good?
> 
> Also, Dr Dominic Bray, also based in London, performs deep plane facelifts.  I also follow him on IG.  I think this FL may be a bit too extensive for me and am scared of any such procedure.
> 
> I haven't heard of smas FL.  But will look it up now.
> 
> I drink so much water - probably 3 to 4 litres a day. My sagging jowls are sadly, to do with age.
> 
> How's your recovery going today?


Hi @Phoenix123 wow I have not heard of Dr Olivier Amar. I shall research him. Yes Dr Bray is too expensive as he starts at £15k! Smas FL means deep plane FL as it cuts and pulls up the smas layer. Wow, I do not drink even 1/4 of that! Smas FLs in Korea range from 9-12 million won. The cheapest smas FL I have found is Dr Oelbrandt who charges around £3k+. You can look at FLs on realself for research too.

Today I shall try dolling up and see how I look in a dress with my new measurements. I haven’t put on makeup since July! Lol. In retirement one rarely finds an excuse to wear makeup. I even do my zoom Korean language classes with the video camera turned off! The students are all in their 20s as is the teacher. One of them asked for my age and I refused to give it. Lol. Best kept a secret.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Phoenix123 wow I have not heard of Dr Olivier Amar. I shall research him. Yes Dr Bray is too expensive as he starts at £15k! Smas FL means deep plane FL as it cuts and pulls up the smas layer. Wow, I do not drink even 1/4 of that! Smas FLs in Korea range from 9-12 million won. The cheapest smas FL I have found is Dr Oelbrandt who charges around £3k+. You can look at FLs on realself for research too.
> 
> Today I shall try dolling up and see how I look in a dress with my new measurements. I haven’t put on makeup since July! Lol. In retirement one rarely finds an excuse to wear makeup. I even do my zoom Korean language classes with the video camera turned off! The students are all in their 20s as is the teacher. One of them asked for my age and I refused to give it. Lol. Best kept a secret.



Smas FL is exactly the same as deep plane FL?  Just different terminology?  I shall look it up on realself too.  Thank you.x

Lol.  I bet no one could guess accurately.


----------



## MissOrange

At 100.6 lbs my face looks good today! I was 96.8 lbs when I got facial fg top up in Korea in January. Gaining 3-5 lbs post FT (fat transfer) is important to maintain the fat cells. The forehead still has a round contour 6.5 months later.


----------



## Mazikeen

Phoenix123 said:


> That's really great!!  Sooo happy for you!!
> 
> The laser with steroid injections are to lessen the scars?  I need something like that.  My scars are not great.
> 
> Does threadlift really work?  I keep reading that they don't work.   Also, you can feel the "cones" on your face. What kind of threadlift did you have?  I've consulted with Dr Martin Huang here in Singapore and he's suggested a silhouette lift.  The cost is very high, the equivalent of 10k pounds, and I'd be extremely upset if it didn't work, ie. if the effect didn't last beyond a year or so...Well, not just the cost, but also the pain I'd have to endure.


10K? Nah. That is daylight robbery.  You could get a full facelift for that.  What kind of thread is he using??
OAN:
 Just googled him and he is shady, shady. Darkweb & pedo vibes shady.  








						Plastic surgeon Martin Huang fined $10,000 for failing to exercise due care in managing teenager
					

SINGAPORE - Well-known plastic surgeon Martin Huang has been censured and fined $10,000 by the Singapore Medical Council's (SMC) disciplinary tribunal for failing to exercise due care in managing a teenage patient.  Read more at straitstimes.com.




					www.straitstimes.com
				




taking pics of naked teens?:


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> I love the free pic collage app! You can do so many b+a's! Wow thigh lipo did not ruin my thighs but improved them (top pic is today)! I had such a huge wad of resistant fat in my right inner thigh and my left inner thigh was so wrinkled. The surgeon must have enjoyed suctioning out that area! Lots of fat! I am never taking off my cotton leggings. Need to make sure the lipo space closes and the thigh skin retracts completely.
> 
> View attachment 4833817





MissOrange said:


> I love the free pic collage app! You can do so many b+a's! Wow thigh lipo did not ruin my thighs but improved them (top pic is today)! I had such a huge wad of resistant fat in my right inner thigh and my left inner thigh was so wrinkled. The surgeon must have enjoyed suctioning out that area! Lots of fat! I am never taking off my cotton leggings. Need to make sure the lipo space closes and the thigh skin retracts completely.
> 
> View attachment 4833817


Yes def an improvement.  Keep wearing the compression to help the skin retract.


----------



## Phoenix123

Mazikeen said:


> 10K? Nah. That is daylight robbery.  You could get a full facelift for that.  What kind of thread is he using??
> OAN:
> Just googled him and he is shady, shady. Darkweb & pedo vibes shady.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plastic surgeon Martin Huang fined $10,000 for failing to exercise due care in managing teenager
> 
> 
> SINGAPORE - Well-known plastic surgeon Martin Huang has been censured and fined $10,000 by the Singapore Medical Council's (SMC) disciplinary tribunal for failing to exercise due care in managing a teenage patient.  Read more at straitstimes.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.straitstimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> taking pics of naked teens?:



I agree, the cost his of silhouette lift is very high.  I think it is a function of two factors: 1) SG is very very expensive (read a few pages back on how much I paid for my explant and FT), 2) he is one of the best here (best for me, in my personal experience anyway).

I wouldn't believe everything you read in the news.  We don't know the full facts of the case.  So, I myself wouldn't draw any such conclusion.

I've known Dr Martin Huang for almost 20 years and he did my breast augmentation in 2004 and did a beautiful job.  If it weren't for BII, I wouldn't have had the implants removed.  My breasts were soft and beautiful and natural looking, and perfect for my frame.  His scars were beautiful (he corrected the ugly scars left behind by a Mr Marion in London, whom I used for my first set).  I also used him for many other procedures and have always been pleased with his work.  If threadlift were permanent or at least longer lasting, I would ask him to do this silhouette lift for me.  I trust his work and his integrity.


----------



## Mazikeen

Phoenix123 said:


> I agree, the cost his of silhouette lift is very high.  I think it is a function of two factors: 1) SG is very very expensive (read a few pages back on how much I paid for my explant and FT), 2) he is one of the best here (best for me, in my personal experience anyway).
> 
> I wouldn't believe everything you read in the news.  We don't know the full facts of the case.  So, I myself wouldn't draw any such conclusion.
> 
> I've known Dr Martin Huang for almost 20 years and he did my breast augmentation in 2004 and did a beautiful job, aesthetically.  If it weren't for BII, I wouldn't have had the implants removed.  My breasts were soft and beautiful and natural looking, and perfect for my frame.  I also used him for many other procedures and have always been pleased with his work.  If threadlift were permanent or at least longer lasting, I would ask him to do this silhouette lift for me.  I trust his work and his integrity.


I hope that this isn't true but there have been cases of women who have been drugged and raped by respectable doctors.  Teens who are desperate to look flawless like their idols and are in awe of meeting such a famous surgeon would be very easy to manipulate and take advantage of. The surgery was supposed to be in her inner thigh so why take off her underwear?  This was predatory and unnecessary.

*"The teen said she had insisted on wearing a bra when the photographer was about to take pictures.

Dr Huang allowed this, but when pictures were taken of her thigh, a nurse suddenly pulled her underwear off.

She covered herself with her hands, but was told by the doctor to place her hands on her head and stand against a wall.

The patient, through her mother, then filed a civil lawsuit against Dr Huang, alleging that there had been a lack of informed consent, as well as assault and negligence on the part of Dr Huang, causing her to suffer "extreme mental distress and trauma"."*

Anyway have you thought about getting a mini- facelift? Dr. Huang offers a modified S lift for the lower face.





						Modified S Lift Lower Face | Singapore MH Plastic Surgery | Dr Martin Huang
					






					www.mhplasticsurgery.com.sg


----------



## Phoenix123

Mazikeen said:


> I hope that this isn't true but there have been cases of women who have been drugged and raped by respectable doctors.  Teens who are desperate to look flawless like their idols and are in awe of meeting such a famous surgeon would be very easy to manipulate and take advantage of. The surgery was supposed to be in her inner thigh so why take off her underwear?  This was predatory and unnecessary.
> 
> *"The teen said she had insisted on wearing a bra when the photographer was about to take pictures.
> 
> Dr Huang allowed this, but when pictures were taken of her thigh, a nurse suddenly pulled her underwear off.
> 
> She covered herself with her hands, but was told by the doctor to place her hands on her head and stand against a wall.
> 
> The patient, through her mother, then filed a civil lawsuit against Dr Huang, alleging that there had been a lack of informed consent, as well as assault and negligence on the part of Dr Huang, causing her to suffer "extreme mental distress and trauma"."*
> 
> Anyway have you thought about getting a mini- facelift? Dr. Huang offers a modified S lift for the lower face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modified S Lift Lower Face | Singapore MH Plastic Surgery | Dr Martin Huang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mhplasticsurgery.com.sg



I have no idea what happened.  Again, I wouldn't necessarily just rely on one news article.

I am trying to avoid a FL if possible.  So scared that something might go wrong.  I will look into FT first.  Interested also in hearing from anyone who may have had experience with Dr Olivier Amar.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 11 and I decided to do chest measurements to work out what size bra I am now after breast FT. No wonder I am bursting out of my 32D bra, according to the M&S bra size guide, I am a 30F?!!! I am 28 inches under my chest and 34 inches at my chest now. I have bought a 32E bra on eBay to try out. Maybe I shall buy a 30E bra too. No way can I be an F cup??? I have found a snack high in protein to build muscle mass in my thighs and fat for my breasts....peanuts!!! I just learned the word sarcopenia! It means reduction in muscle mass with age and inactivity! This is the new theory behind sagging of arms and thighs post menopause! It suggests it is the loss of muscle that is causing the muscle to sag, not loose skin! If this is the case, I just need to up my daily protein intake and try to do leg exercises as mini thigh lift may not be the answer!


----------



## Mazikeen

Phoenix123 said:


> I have no idea what happened.  Again, I wouldn't necessarily just rely on one news article.
> 
> I am trying to avoid a FL if possible.  So scared that something might go wrong.  I will look into FT first.  Interested also in hearing from anyone who may have had experience with Dr Olivier Amar.


Wouldn't FT cause more sagging? Here is an example from realself:

6 months ago, I had: 1) Fat graft all over face to fill hollowness around eyes and cheeks and 2) Thread lift for slightly sagging jowls w/ 8 threads each side. I think 30-40% of the fat has been absorbed. Soon after fat graft, pockets of fat appeared on each side of mouth which reduced with time. Now, left chin is indented slightly--that's the side I sleep on sometimes--and there are lines & lumps near both sides of my mouth. Plus, skin near mouth looks slightly lumpy. What is the best fix?
*Immediately post FT and threadlift*





*6 mths post*


----------



## Phoenix123

Mazikeen said:


> Wouldn't FT cause more sagging? Here is an example from realself:
> 
> 6 months ago, I had: 1) Fat graft all over face to fill hollowness around eyes and cheeks and 2) Thread lift for slightly sagging jowls w/ 8 threads each side. I think 30-40% of the fat has been absorbed. Soon after fat graft, pockets of fat appeared on each side of mouth which reduced with time. Now, left chin is indented slightly--that's the side I sleep on sometimes--and there are lines & lumps near both sides of my mouth. Plus, skin near mouth looks slightly lumpy. What is the best fix?
> *Immediately post FT and threadlift*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *6 mths post*


Well, that's terrible. Immediate looks way better than 6 months post op.
I have no idea what's the answer.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Wouldn't FT cause more sagging? Here is an example from realself:
> 
> 6 months ago, I had: 1) Fat graft all over face to fill hollowness around eyes and cheeks and 2) Thread lift for slightly sagging jowls w/ 8 threads each side. I think 30-40% of the fat has been absorbed. Soon after fat graft, pockets of fat appeared on each side of mouth which reduced with time. Now, left chin is indented slightly--that's the side I sleep on sometimes--and there are lines & lumps near both sides of my mouth. Plus, skin near mouth looks slightly lumpy. What is the best fix?
> *Immediately post FT and threadlift*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *6 mths post*


8 threads each side suggests she needed a smas facelift. They may have dissolved by 6 months. To insert 16 threads in total would have loosened a lot of her facial skin for access! I would advise try only one thread each side if you must but better to do FT with an experienced surgeon and gain weight postop. She may have lost weight also as her face looks markedly thinner and her neck shows sagging at 6 months.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Day 11 and I decided to do chest measurements to work out what size bra I am now after breast FT. No wonder I am bursting out of my 32D bra, according to the M&S bra size guide, I am a 30F?!!! I am 28 inches under my chest and 34 inches at my chest now. I have bought a 32E bra on eBay to try out. Maybe I shall buy a 30E bra too. No way can I be an F cup??? I have found a snack high in protein to build muscle mass in my thighs and fat for my breasts....peanuts!!! I just learned the word sarcopenia! It means reduction in muscle mass with age and inactivity! This is the new theory behind sagging of arms and thighs post menopause! It suggests it is the loss of muscle that is causing the muscle to sag, not loose skin! If this is the case, I just need to up my daily protein intake and try to do leg exercises as mini thigh lift may not be the answer!
> 
> View attachment 4836029
> 
> 
> View attachment 4836031


Protein shakes and collagen powders are good protein sources.  I like this one: FINE hyaluron and collagen powder.  It is delicious and dissolves quickly in hot drinks.  I mix it in my coffee or hot chocolate. It really plumps the skin.










MissOrange said:


> Day 11 and I decided to do chest measurements to work out what size bra I am now after breast FT. No wonder I am bursting out of my 32D bra, according to the M&S bra size guide, I am a 30F?!!! I am 28 inches under my chest and 34 inches at my chest now. I have bought a 32E bra on eBay to try out. Maybe I shall buy a 30E bra too. No way can I be an F cup??? I have found a snack high in protein to build muscle mass in my thighs and fat for my breasts....peanuts!!! I just learned the word sarcopenia! It means reduction in muscle mass with age and inactivity! This is the new theory behind sagging of arms and thighs post menopause! It suggests it is the loss of muscle that is causing the muscle to sag, not loose skin! If this is the case, I just need to up my daily protein intake and try to do leg exercises as mini thigh lift may not be the answer!
> 
> View attachment 4836029
> 
> 
> View attachment 4836031


----------



## Mazikeen

Phoenix123 said:


> Well, that's terrible. Immediate looks way better than 6 months post op.
> I have no idea what's the answer.


IKR. I was also schocked at the results.  Like, damn, all that $$ for just 6mths?


----------



## MissOrange

Day 12 and a diet of healthy fats, snacking on peanuts and eating avocados in chicken salad for dinner is maintaining my fat and allowing me to deswell. My right thigh is now a record low at 17.75 inches! My chest is still 34 inches and am awaiting bras to work out whether I am a 30 dd, 30 e or 32 dd. The swelling from my back has gone and I have no love handles or flank fat now. Both my inner thighs have a wee bit of wrinkling skin so will do walking exercise and continue to increase my protein intake to build up thigh muscles. Here are this morning’s photos. At this rate, ladies can forget about implants as fat transfer is a 2 for 1 op with natural breast augmentation and free lower body lipo thrown in! Arnica cream and drinking pure pineapple juice high in bromelain have worked to expedite the healing of all my bruises! I wish I could flaunt my new bikini body on a beach but alas covid makes travel abroad difficult without a sudden announcement of a 2w quarantine. So far so good, David Floyd’s breast FT is the best. I can certainly notice a difference when operated on by a Cambridge med school trained board certified plastic surgeon! That’s like going first class!


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Day 12 and a diet of healthy fats, snacking on peanuts and eating avocados in chicken salad for dinner is maintaining my fat and allowing me to deswell. My right thigh is now a record low at 17.75 inches! My chest is still 34 inches and am awaiting bras to work out whether I am a 30 dd, 30 e or 32 dd. The swelling from my back has gone and I have no love handles or flank fat now. Both my inner thighs have a wee bit of wrinkling skin so will do walking exercise and continue to increase my protein intake to build up thigh muscles. Here are this morning’s photos. At this rate, ladies can forget about implants as fat transfer is a 2 for 1 op with natural breast augmentation and free lower body lipo thrown in! Arnica cream and drinking pure pineapple juice high in bromelain have worked to expedite the healing of all my bruises! I wish I could flaunt my new bikini body on a beach but alas covid makes travel abroad difficult without a sudden announcement of a 2w quarantine. So far so good, David Floyd’s breast FT is the best. I can certainly notice a difference when operated on by a Cambridge med school trained board certified plastic surgeon! That’s like going first class!
> 
> View attachment 4836742
> 
> 
> View attachment 4836743
> 
> 
> View attachment 4836744
> 
> 
> View attachment 4836745


You are healing fast.  They are the perfect size for you.  How do you plan to maintain your results? I imagine it will be a delicate balance between retaining the fat in the boobs and maintaining your weight.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> You are healing fast.  They are the perfect size for you.  How do you plan to maintain your results? I imagine it will be a delicate balance between retaining the fat in the boobs and maintaining your weight.


Thanks @Mazikeen,

I have been weighing myself daily. Am 100 lbs today so only 0.4 lbs more than on the day of surgery. This meant eating more fat today, ie Krispy Kreme doughnut, chocolate coated peanuts, McDonald’s egg cheese muffin, etc. It is a fine balance as I do not want to add fat back to my thighs yet need to eat enough fat for the fat cells to stick in my chest! I have also been increasing my protein intake to build up my thigh muscles I hope. I bought a pair of shorts today and I fit a size 0 US or 4 U.K. This means I am top heavy again. Liposuction can take 3 months for full recovery so I shall carry on wearing cotton leggings or compression bandages over my upper thighs for now.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> At 100.6 lbs my face looks good today! I was 96.8 lbs when I got facial fg top up in Korea in January. Gaining 3-5 lbs post FT (fat transfer) is important to maintain the fat cells. The forehead still has a round contour 6.5 months later.
> 
> View attachment 4835072
> 
> 
> View attachment 4835073
> 
> 
> View attachment 4835074



@MissOrange Wow! You are looking good! So pretty! I hope everything is going well for you! Stay safe during this Covid 19 period!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Wow! You are looking good! So pretty! I hope everything is going well for you! Stay safe during this Covid 19 period!


Hi @Fortunecat! How have you been?

I have been trying to find my 7 lipo port holes. Instead of allowing the incisions to heal with stitches, I used steristrips after removing them and letting my body scab over the sites. The scabs have fallen off and soon will be invisible.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat! How have you been?
> 
> I have been trying to find my 7 lipo port holes. Instead of allowing the incisions to heal with stitches, I used steristrips after removing them and letting my body scab over the sites. The scabs have fallen off and soon will be invisible.
> 
> View attachment 4836940
> 
> 
> View attachment 4836942



Wow! Impressive! 
I have been good. Been to a plastic surgeon to ask regarding my eyes but it seems that surgery won't help much. Oh well... 
I will wait till I can go back to SK again to consult Dr Seo.


----------



## Phoenix123

@MissOrange , you're looking AMAZING!!  How are the upper poles looking?

I must admit to being a wee bit jealous...haha, j/k...well kinda!    I'm only an A cup.  Was a B cup post-op.


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> @MissOrange , you're looking AMAZING!!  How are the upper poles looking?
> 
> I must admit to being a wee bit jealous...haha, j/k...well kinda!    I'm only an A cup.  Was a B cup post-op.


@Phoenix123 I was thinking you are willing to spend £10k on threads in Singapore when for half that £5.6k +£85 hospital covid test +£250 consult you could have had breast FT with lower body lipo in the UK? No brainer to me which is the better bargain. And David never told me to remove my underwear at consult or at the hospital in paper knickers for photos and marking.

It's ok to be jealous. I spent ages being jealous of ladies who got a full anchor lift and nipples at 17 cms vs my failed lift and sag at 22 cm nipples.

Here are my thighs today on day 12. My right thigh is now fine but my left inner upper thigh is wrinkly from lipo. Sigh. I shall wait the full 3 months as lipo takes this long for full recovery.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> Wow! Impressive!
> I have been good. Been to a plastic surgeon to ask regarding my eyes but it seems that surgery won't help much. Oh well...
> I will wait till I can go back to SK again to consult Dr Seo.


Dr Seo is the best for revision des and if he can help you that would be wonderful. I had 4 UK upper lid blephs before Dr Seo operated on my eyes 4 years ago. My eyes have no evidence of having had more than 1 eyelid op now.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> @Phoenix123 I was thinking you are willing to spend £10k on threads in Singapore when for half that £5.6k +£85 hospital covid test +£250 consult you could have had breast FT with lower body lipo in the UK? No brainer to me which is the better bargain. And David never told me to remove my underwear at consult or at the hospital in paper knickers for photos and marking.
> 
> It's ok to be jealous. I spent ages being jealous of ladies who got a full anchor lift and nipples at 17 cms vs my failed lift and sag at 22 cm nipples.
> 
> Here are my thighs today on day 12. My right thigh is now fine but my left inner upper thigh is wrinkly from lipo. Sigh. I shall wait the full 3 months as lipo takes this long for full recovery.
> 
> View attachment 4837174
> 
> 
> View attachment 4837175



@MissOrange , I only had my explant+FT here in SG bc of Covid.  I think I did mention (or maybe not, can't remember, lol) that I was scheduled to have surgery with David Floyd in April but couldn't go.

The money is one thing, but another issue is post-op care.  I live here and have FT help here as well as my husband and friends to look in on me and take care of me.  But I do want to go where the* best* is, medically.  I do need another FT, a mini one only, to my upper poles.  I may very well go David Floyd this time, assuming everything is ok Covid-wise.  I wonder if he could do that with mild sedation rather than GA...hmm...

Sagging face-wise, I am more and more impressed by Dr Dominic Bray.  If I have no choice but to have a FL, I think I will go with him.


----------



## cherrykiss

Mazikeen said:


> 6 months ago, I had: 1) Fat graft all over face to fill hollowness around eyes and cheeks and 2) Thread lift for slightly sagging jowls w/ 8 threads each side. I think 30-40% of the fat has been absorbed. Soon after fat graft, pockets of fat appeared on each side of mouth which reduced with time. Now, left chin is indented slightly--that's the side I sleep on sometimes--and there are lines & lumps near both sides of my mouth. Plus, skin near mouth looks slightly lumpy. What is the best fix?




Fat Graft for face 1x can fade REALLY fast for most patients. My first one was pretty much a throwaway too  Unfortunately it really does take at least 2x to make the fat stick. You can also follow MissOrange's plan of putting on a little weight to increase blood flow to your fat.

Fat that is placed around the corners of your mouth are also more likely to fade faster because we move our mouths so much (eating, talking, etc). Areas like your forehead are better at holding onto fat (compared to mouth). My doctor injected a TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENY weeny bit of botox into my forehead as well right after to help keep it still.


----------



## Mazikeen

cherrykiss said:


> Fat Graft for face 1x can fade REALLY fast for most patients. My first one was pretty much a throwaway too  Unfortunately it really does take at least 2x to make the fat stick. You can also follow MissOrange's plan of putting on a little weight to increase blood flow to your fat.
> 
> Fat that is placed around the corners of your mouth are also more likely to fade faster because we move our mouths so much (eating, talking, etc). Areas like your forehead are better at holding onto fat (compared to mouth). My doctor injected a TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENY weeny bit of botox into my forehead as well right after to help keep it still.


 Thanks @cherrykiss.  Lmao,that was a random patient on RS who had posted her pics and was asking for advise.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 13. Omg! My bigger bras arrived. I tried on the 30dd and the cup was too small! So I tried on the 32e which is the sister to the 30f suggested by the M&S website and it fits like a glove! No side spillage, full coverage and no loose straps! Seeing is believing. Peanuts and avocados, protein and fat, are keeping my fat cells happy! I have gone from a 32c to 32e!!! I am back to Dolly Parton boobs. Sigh and I just wanted a full c or small d. Oh well, I can always shrink them a bit if I lose weight.


----------



## Mazikeen

Phoenix123 said:


> @MissOrange , I only had my explant+FT here in SG bc of Covid.  I think I did mention (or maybe not, can't remember, lol) that I was scheduled to have surgery with David Floyd in April but couldn't go.
> 
> The money is one thing, but another issue is post-op care.  I live here and have FT help here as well as my husband and friends to look in on me and take care of me.  But I do want to go where the* best* is, medically.  I do need another FT, a mini one only, to my upper poles.  I may very well go David Floyd this time, assuming everything is ok Covid-wise.  I wonder if he could do that with mild sedation rather than GA...hmm...
> 
> Sagging face-wise, I am more and more impressed by Dr Dominic Bray.  If I have no choice but to have a FL, I think I will go with him.


Dr. Bray's work is impressive, the incisions are barely visible.  Have you seen anyone IRL who had FL from him?


FILTER FRONTAL VIEW 3/4 VIEW PROFILE VIEW INCISIONS


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Day 13. Omg! My bigger bras arrived. I tried on the 30dd and the cup was too small! So I tried on the 32e which is the sister to the 30f suggested by the M&S website and it fits like a glove! No side spillage, full coverage and no loose straps! Seeing is believing. Peanuts and avocados, protein and fat, are keeping my fat cells happy! I have gone from a 32c to 32e!!! I am back to Dolly Parton boobs. Sigh and I just wanted a full c or small d. Oh well, I can always shrink them a bit if I lose weight.
> 
> View attachment 4837857
> 
> 
> View attachment 4837858


 Dolly Parton though? You need 6 more rounds of FT to get to her cleavage. The bra is cute.


----------



## Phoenix123

Mazikeen said:


> Dr. Bray's work is impressive, the incisions are barely visible.  Have you seen anyone IRL who had FL from him?
> 
> 
> FILTER FRONTAL VIEW 3/4 VIEW PROFILE VIEW INCISIONS



Agreed.   I personally don't know anyone IRL. I'd love to hear from anyone who's had a FL done by Dr Bray.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Dolly Parton though? You need 6 more rounds of FT to get to her cleavage. The bra is cute.


LOL @Mazikeen no way do I want Dolly’s boobs says I as I am typing and munching on chocolate coated peanuts. With the bra on, my chest sticks out well beyond 34 inches which now makes my figure top heavy. I guess one can never predict exactly what bra size FT will leave you but it is good to know that eating high fat with protein is helping make it stick. I watched Skin Decisions on Netflix and the Beverly Hills surgeon advised protein and sugar for the first week after breast FT! I think I ate everything during the first week, sugary doughnuts, ice cream, croissants, chicken, salmon, McDonald’s big mac and fries, etc. As one is eating +++ after breast FT, it is vital one is under one’s ideal weight for the procedure else one can easily become overweight postop with all the extra fat calories. The good news is that as my bmi was closer to 18 on the day of the op, the fat that was harvested was resistant and to total 320 ccs, that is a lot of tiny stubborn fat cells. These small stubborn fat cells are now expanding in their new home so 320 ccs of fat can easily appear a lot more. I never wore any support bra postop to allow the fat cells to continue to expand. I shall try to stay at 100 lbs now. Had I managed to get my weight down to 96 lbs on the day of the op, then I could maintain at 97-98 lbs but as I could only get down to 99.4 lbs, I cannot go below 99 lbs.


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> Agreed.   I personally don't know anyone IRL. I'd love to hear from anyone who's had a FL done by Dr Bray.


@Phoenix123 I follow Bray on IG and some results I like, like on his sister but I did not like the one on an Asian female. There is a Korean FL surgeon who follows Bray on IG who has good results, Dr Park Dongman. I think for asian faces, we need to find an asian plastic surgeon, ideally in Asia. That said I like Dr Andrew Jacono’s FL on Dr Paul Nassif. Dr Nassif had a very natural facelift by Jacono. Dr Kremer seems hit and miss. There is a fab result on a lady on realself but not consistently in others. I liked Dr Kirk’s results on his computer at Namu but we don’t have long term results. The best way is to find up to 3 former patients of a FL surgeon to chat with and ideally to see F2F.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Day 13. Omg! My bigger bras arrived. I tried on the 30dd and the cup was too small! So I tried on the 32e which is the sister to the 30f suggested by the M&S website and it fits like a glove! No side spillage, full coverage and no loose straps! Seeing is believing. Peanuts and avocados, protein and fat, are keeping my fat cells happy! I have gone from a 32c to 32e!!! I am back to Dolly Parton boobs. Sigh and I just wanted a full c or small d. Oh well, I can always shrink them a bit if I lose weight.
> 
> View attachment 4837857
> 
> 
> View attachment 4837858



They look freaking FANTASTIC!! they will definitely go down if you lose weight.  Part of my shrinkage is that I've lost like 2-3lbs since the op.  Yes, the opposite of what is supposed to happen.  Your swelling will still go down further too, as I am sure you know.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> @Phoenix123 I follow Bray on IG and some results I like, like on his sister but I did not like the one on an Asian female. There is a Korean FL surgeon who follows Bray on IG who has good results, Dr Park Dongman. I think for asian faces, we need to find an asian plastic surgeon, ideally in Asia. That said I like Dr Andrew Jacono’s FL on Dr Paul Nassif. Dr Nassif had a very natural facelift by Jacono. Dr Kremer seems hit and miss. There is a fab result on a lady on realself but not consistently in others. I liked Dr Kirk’s results on his computer at Namu but we don’t have long term results. The best way is to find up to 3 former patients of a FL surgeon to chat with and ideally to see F2F.



I will check them out.  Thank you.

Very good point about Asian faces vs Western ones.  Which one is Dr Bray's Asian one?  I looked through his IG a/c and couldn't find it.  ETA: is it the one posted on March 26th?

Also, how to approach a surgeon's former patients? I guess on their reviews on Realself?


----------



## MissOrange

I realised that I couldn't have a mini thigh lift 13 days after breast FT as I am not allowed to lie on my stomach and a crescent thigh lift involves operating on me while on my stomach and on my back! Also it takes 3 months for thigh lipo to settle so it is good I cancelled my mini thigh lift with Dr O in Belgium for now. I can revisit in 3 months as to whether my thighs still need a mini thigh lift. It is really difficult sleeping on one's back as I usually sleep on my side. I had a look at my daily facial FT photos and my facial swelling went down with the bruising around day 12. I am hoping my breasts have deswelled as my back and thighs do not feel swollen anymore and my bruises have almost all disappeared.


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> I will check them out.  Thank you.
> 
> Very good point about Asian faces vs Western ones.  Which one is Dr Bray's Asian one?  I looked through his IG a/c and couldn't find it.  ETA: is it the one posted on March 26th?
> 
> Also, how to approach a surgeon's former patients? I guess on their reviews on Realself?


Here is the Korean FL surgeon. He films his happy patients post facelift. See how natural his Asian patients look, like younger versions.

I chatted with regen and girin zygoma patients on kakao, ig private messaging, or whatsapp. You have to reach out to chat privately for their frank opinions.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Here is the Korean FL surgeon. He films his happy patients post facelift. See how natural his Asian patients look, like younger versions.
> 
> I chatted with regen and girin zygoma patients on kakao, ig private messaging, or whatsapp. You have to reach out to chat privately for their frank opinions.
> 
> View attachment 4838381
> 
> 
> View attachment 4838382


Very nice results.  I would like to see how the scars look like but he has very few pics on his insta.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Here is the Korean FL surgeon. He films his happy patients post facelift. See how natural his Asian patients look, like younger versions.
> 
> I chatted with regen and girin zygoma patients on kakao, ig private messaging, or whatsapp. You have to reach out to chat privately for their frank opinions.
> 
> View attachment 4838381
> 
> 
> View attachment 4838382



Thank you, @MissOrange .  I shall try and approach them.

AMAZING work!!  Just checked out this Dr's IG postings.  Wish I could understand Korean.  Do you know if he and his staff are fluent/conversant in English?


----------



## Teina

Has anyone ever used collagen stimulators for the face. Like sculptra, radiesse etc


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> Has anyone ever used collagen stimulators for the face. Like sculptra, radiesse etc


Hi @Teina, I have been a fan of radiesse for nasolabial folds for over a decade.


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> Thank you, @MissOrange .  I shall try and approach them.
> 
> AMAZING work!!  Just checked out this Dr's IG postings.  Wish I could understand Korean.  Do you know if he and his staff are fluent/conversant in English?


Sorry all I know is what I saw on IG. You could try messaging them on IG?


----------



## MissOrange

Arrgh this is aging of the body! We gain fat and lose muscle. I need to figure out how to bulk up my muscles next.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Arrgh this is aging of the body! We gain fat and lose muscle. I need to figure out how to bulk up my muscles next.
> 
> View attachment 4839390



Are you not a fan of yoga, pilates and weights?  I used to do weights but would like to try the former 2.


----------



## Mazikeen

Agree with Phoenix, pilates & weights help bulk up.  If you like group workouts at the gym you could enrol for Les Mills Body Pump and Les Mills Barre classes.


----------



## MissOrange

I have been following a 22 yo Asian Dr B breast FT patient @reallifeangel on RS. She only went from a 34C to 32d/dd after the first round for $11k+ (bearing in mind 32d is the sister bra to 34c so has the exact amount of cup volume) and 9 months later paid $9k+ for a second round and is now a 32ddd a month postop having paid over $20,000 total for the 2 rounds! I have gone from 32C to 32E (32ddd is the same as 32E) after one round for £5.6k or $7.4k with Dr Floyd and applying my technique of FT retention. I am so competitive! Lol. 32E on a petite moi vs 32ddd on a 5’8” young lady means I am way too big on top, lol. My fat retention technique has worked on my face FT so am pleased to see this same technique work for breast FT retention too. I have been comparing lipo site scars to hers too. Lol. My technique of early suture removal at 24 hours, and use of steristrips for the next 24 hours and then allowing for natural wound healing is leaving invisible scars. I suspect my hypertrophic areola scars are due to a permanent purse string suture under the skin causing my body to react with raised scar tissue. Sigh. I see Dr Asif Hussein in 2 weeks who is the genius of laser treatment of scars! Hope he can help as the haelan steroid tape is not doing anything to penetrate the solid scar tissue.


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> Are you not a fan of yoga, pilates and weights?  I used to do weights but would like to try the former 2.


Thanks @Phoenix123 I know I need to join a class. It is hard to get motivated in my 50s but once I am fully healed, I shall look into weightbearing classes. I did spend a year doing adult ballet a few years back and had wonderfully toned arms but once the classes were over, the arms went flabby again. I was not prepared to attend intermediate classes as the intro to the intermediate class made me so out of breath! Lol. I guess this means I may be tempted to get a mini thigh lift in the future for a quick and permanent fix, as exercise does not lead to permanent changes, only changes while exercising.


----------



## MissOrange

Google sent me an email. My google reviews have been seen 8000 times! But Dr Seo has moved to his own machimpyo clinic now.

8000 is nothing compared to the over 300,000 views of this thread of mine. Shame I can't monetise. lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I weigh exactly the same as my op day 17 days ago! 99.4 lbs. Uhoh. I must not go under else I may lose some fat cells. Loving my new figure! No lower back fat and my left thigh is a record 17.5 inches in circumference and my right 18 inches. So I lost 2 inches from my waist and thighs total and gained 2 inches to my bustline and my right breast defect got fixed too. That's a good deal!


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Phoenix123 I know I need to join a class. It is hard to get motivated in my 50s but once I am fully healed, I shall look into weightbearing classes. I did spend a year doing adult ballet a few years back and had wonderfully toned arms but once the classes were over, the arms went flabby again. I was not prepared to attend intermediate classes as the intro to the intermediate class made me so out of breath! Lol. I guess this means I may be tempted to get a mini thigh lift in the future for a quick and permanent fix, *as exercise does not lead to permanent changes, only changes while exercising.*



That's so true!  That's what's happening to me at the moment.  I got very muscular through weight training but haven't been able to do any as of late and so have lost most/all of the muscles. I am super sad!!

Anyway, I love training so I will hopefully get back to doing that again soon. YMMV.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Google sent me an email. My google reviews have been seen 8000 times! But Dr Seo has moved to his own machimpyo clinic now.
> 
> 8000 is nothing compared to the over 300,000 views of this thread of mine. Shame I can't monetise. lol.
> 
> View attachment 4841659



You really should write a book.  I, for one, as am sure many others will buy it.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Today I weigh exactly the same as my op day 17 days ago! 99.4 lbs. Uhoh. I must not go under else I may lose some fat cells. Loving my new figure! No lower back fat and my left thigh is a record 17.5 inches in circumference and my right 18 inches. So I lost 2 inches from my waist and thighs total and gained 2 inches to my bustline and my right breast defect got fixed too. That's a good deal!
> 
> View attachment 4841664



David Floyd has done a fantastic job on you!!

I am definitely going to him for topping up the upper poles.  My lipo was not too even either - I could do with having the lumpiness taken care of.

Oh, do you know if David Floyd does a BBL?  I don't want anything OTT, just some nice perkiness like when I was lifting heavy weights.


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> David Floyd has done a fantastic job on you!!
> 
> I am definitely going to him for topping up the upper poles.  My lipo was not too even either - I could do with having the lumpiness taken care of.
> 
> Oh, do you know if David Floyd does a BBL?  I don't want anything OTT, just some nice perkiness like when I was lifting heavy weights.


Many UK surgeons will not do BBL operations due to unacceptable risk of death, ie 1 in 3000. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brazilian-butt-lift-cosmetic-surgery-implants-enlargement-procedure-a8568301.html?amp

I learned today that Dr B uses tumescent fluid for his breast FT with traditional lipo not power assisted lipo or vaser. Dr Floyd also uses traditional lipo with suction, not power assisted or vaser or tumescent fluid. This may explain why Dr B's patient breasts are huge and then deswell as the tumescent fluid gets reabsorbed. As Dr Floyd does not use tumescent fluid, the breasts retain their size postop.


----------



## Phoenix123

MissOrange said:


> Many UK surgeons will not do BBL operations due to unacceptable risk of death, ie 1 in 3000. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brazilian-butt-lift-cosmetic-surgery-implants-enlargement-procedure-a8568301.html?amp
> 
> I learned today that Dr B uses tumescent fluid for his breast FT with traditional lipo not power assisted lipo or vaser. Dr Floyd also uses traditional lipo with suction, not power assisted or vaser or tumescent fluid. This may explain why Dr B's patient breasts are huge and then deswell as the tumescent fluid gets reabsorbed. As Dr Floyd does not use tumescent fluid, the breasts retain their size postop.



Yikes!  Don't fancy dying!!

Very interesting and useful information to have.  Thank you, @MissOrange .


----------



## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Phoenix123 wow I have not heard of Dr Olivier Amar. I shall research him. Yes Dr Bray is too expensive as he starts at £15k! Smas FL means deep plane FL as it cuts and pulls up the smas layer. Wow, I do not drink even 1/4 of that! Smas FLs in Korea range from 9-12 million won. The cheapest smas FL I have found is Dr Oelbrandt who charges around £3k+. You can look at FLs on realself for research too.
> 
> Today I shall try dolling up and see how I look in a dress with my new measurements. I haven’t put on makeup since July! Lol. In retirement one rarely finds an excuse to wear makeup. I even do my zoom Korean language classes with the video camera turned off! The students are all in their 20s as is the teacher. One of them asked for my age and I refused to give it. Lol. Best kept a secret.



Hello Miss Orange, I have been reading and following all your posts “quietly” and I wish to THANK YOU for sharring all this honest, detailed valuable information. You are absolutely beautiful and you look amazing!!! Wow, you do look like a “20 something” indeed!!! 
 I myself had a few plastic surgeries done so far: breast implants, blepharoplasty, 3 nose tip surgeries, “love handles” lipo. Also I had a sleeve gastrectomy surgery as I’ve been battling with food addiction for many years. The latest plastic procesure I had done is a V line at View in Seoul, 2 years and a half ago. My chin was wide and the results have been great but the same year I also lost nearly 30kg from my stomach reduction and then I started to have sagging underneath my chin. Also the skin around smile lines is looser and it creases when I smile. Although I am only going to be 37 in December this year I am considerring having a smas FL. Like you, the scars puts me off and I wish a scarfree FL would be available. Also with natural results, to still look like myself. I wanted to ask you if you’ve seen any results/scars of a smas FL in real life? I only seen it in pictures and I know too, that you cannot always trust that as they can be edited... Would you recommend any doctors? I have my eyes on some doctors in Turkey but I am not sure who to trust... Any sugestions please?
I also live in London. Many thanks in advance and sorry for my English.


----------



## Tremere

@MissOrange how much fat did they transfer to each breast? I'm going under the knife for a mastopexy in under a month and they are transfering 80-100 cc of fat to each one.


----------



## MissOrange

NewMe83 said:


> View attachment 4845672
> 
> 
> Hello Miss Orange, I have been reading and following all your posts “quietly” and I wish to THANK YOU for sharring all this honest, detailed valuable information. You are absolutely beautiful and you look amazing!!! Wow, you do look like a “20 something” indeed!!!
> I myself had a few plastic surgeries done so far: breast implants, blepharoplasty, 3 nose tip surgeries, “love handles” lipo. Also I had a sleeve gastrectomy surgery as I’ve been battling with food addiction for many years. The latest plastic procesure I had done is a V line at View in Seoul, 2 years and a half ago. My chin was wide and the results have been great but the same year I also lost nearly 30kg from my stomach reduction and then I started to have sagging underneath my chin. Also the skin around smile lines is looser and it creases when I smile. Although I am only going to be 37 in December this year I am considerring having a smas FL. Like you, the scars puts me off and I wish a scarfree FL would be available. Also with natural results, to still look like myself. I wanted to ask you if you’ve seen any results/scars of a smas FL in real life? I only seen it in pictures and I know too, that you cannot always trust that as they can be edited... Would you recommend any doctors? I have my eyes on some doctors in Turkey but I am not sure who to trust... Any sugestions please?
> I also live in London. Many thanks in advance and sorry for my English.


Hi @NewMe83 thank you for reading my posts and for your kind words. Wow you had v line at View! View is a very impressive hospital. However it looks like with bone contouring surgery it speeds up sagging due to loss of bone mass. This means needing a lifting procedure whether it be by threads or smas.

I met Mr Jan Stanek's 60 yo nurse in person at his clinic in London who had an invisible smas FL. The incision was made in her ear canal! She looked 30s. Alas he has now retired as he is 70. He was my primary plastic surgeon from my 30s to 40s. I had planned on going to him for his incredible smas but forgot he is older than I am so missed the boat.

Sadly I have met one lady who had a smas FL by a current well known UK plastic surgeon but it did not last beyond a few years. I did not ask to see her scars as it was obvious the FL had failed. This too scared me off as her face now looked worse as the skin now sags even more.

A 52 yo Asian American tried ASPS clinic in Seoul for her smas FL. She wrote a thread of her experience on this site. Her result looks good but no annual update on longevity.

I think Dr Jacono does the best as his are more natural and he did Dr Paul Nassif. But he is in NYC so probably super expensive.

As you also live in London happy to meet up with you for coffee and a chat on our mutual plastic surgery interest.


----------



## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> @MissOrange how much fat did they transfer to each breast? I'm going under the knife for a mastopexy in under a month and they are transfering 80-100 cc of fat to each one.


Hi @Tremere, David Floyd put 145 ccs in the left breast and 175 ccs in the smaller right breast to even them out.

Do you know what kind of mastopexy? Remember to insist on the full anchor lift and not the mini periareolar donut lift that does not work and will make your nipples sag and sit very low.


----------



## MissOrange

Today marks 3 weeks since my breast FT with harvesting fat from my flanks, thighs and knees. I put together a collage of my b+a back of thighs cellulite. Not only did David Floyd harvest fat but he also smoothed out the skin and got rid of the cellulite! I just have one area of loose upper thigh skin on my left thigh that I have wrapped with pink sport kinesiology tape in hopes it tightens up the skin. My breasts are still full. No need to inundate you with more breast selfies so here is one of the back of my thighs. Incredible to think I have now had my left thigh liposuctioned 8 times and my right 7 times. I am done with liposuction and breast ops.


----------



## MissOrange

Today is the 4 week mark post breast FT with lipo. All is well. I meet laser dermatologist Dr A Hussein on Wednesday for my areola scars and then I am caught up.

Played tennis and noticed how thin my thighs are now to match my skinny arms. I spray Garnier tan on my legs for that healthy glow and am wearing Farrah's Nike Cortez but with a pink stripe and instead of ankle socks am wearing trendy hidden shoe liners that make my legs look a tad longer. Would love to have the super long legs of k pop singers but realise most have great legs as they are simply taller. At 157 cms I can never be any taller. Here I am next to iconic Farrah and thought body sorted but my dry, damaged blonde hair needs fixing.

I then found a new international Brazilian hair stylist who has just opened his salon local to me! He did hair shows in Seoul, NY and Dubai! He said in Seoul, Koreans do not want to dye their black hair but want perms or straightening. He is an expert in hair colouring, Brazilian keratin perms and straightening. Great hair and hair colouring are like plastic surgery as it can also make you look younger! No one can guess my true age from my hair! I am going to get weekly blowdries from him as he leaves my hair super silky and fine! Incredible.


----------



## Teina

MissOrange said:


> Today marks 3 weeks since my breast FT with harvesting fat from my flanks, thighs and knees. I put together a collage of my b+a back of thighs cellulite. Not only did David Floyd harvest fat but he also smoothed out the skin and got rid of the cellulite! I just have one area of loose upper thigh skin on my left thigh that I have wrapped with pink sport kinesiology tape in hopes it tightens up the skin. My breasts are still full. No need to inundate you with more breast selfies so here is one of the back of my thighs. Incredible to think I have now had my left thigh liposuctioned 8 times and my right 7 times. I am done with liposuction and breast ops.
> 
> View attachment 4846054


Have you ever heard of hyperdiluted radiesse to build collagen and tighten thighs, stomach and face?


----------



## highbutterfly

Hello, Just wondering if anyone knows how promotions and discounts work in Korea. I got a couple of quotes from clinics and many of them offered a % of discount if you make a deposit before a certain time. I'm sure these types of promotions come by all the time, but how you do keep up with it? They don't seem to post anything on their websites. It would be my first time going to Korea for surgery so I have no clue how it works. Thank you.


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> Have you ever heard of hyperdiluted radiesse to build collagen and tighten thighs, stomach and face?


No I haven‘t @Teina. Mind you radiesse shows up on x ray as calcification so not sure this is a good idea for thighs and stomach. I would only recommend for the nasolabial folds as the maxilla regresses with age.


----------



## MissOrange

highbutterfly said:


> Hello, Just wondering if anyone knows how promotions and discounts work in Korea. I got a couple of quotes from clinics and many of them offered a % of discount if you make a deposit before a certain time. I'm sure these types of promotions come by all the time, but how you do keep up with it? They don't seem to post anything on their websites. It would be my first time going to Korea for surgery so I have no clue how it works. Thank you.


Hi @highbutterfly, Korean plastic surgery clinics are all about haggling. They want to know your budget. If you can show quotes from 2 other clinics, then you have bargaining power with the third. Yes you can negotiate by saying yes you can use my photos on social media, I shall write a review in forums, I can pay cash or I can schedule an op for tomorrow, etc. They give even bigger discounts if they need a Western model. Be prepared to walk away and you may be recontacted with a lower quote. But if the clinic has lots of doctors and you pay too little, then you may end up with the junior doctor so best to know what is fair and what is too cheap a price.


----------



## MissOrange

I have now completed my research on breast fat transfer as a safe and excellent alternative to silicone implants.

For up to 100% retention, it looks like a postop weight gain of 7 lbs may be necessary. It seems that both an Asian Dr Bednar patient (@journey2boobs) on RS and a British patient of Dr David Floyd gained 7 lbs post breast FT for full retention after the 3 month mark. 3 months is when the transferred fat cells seem to be permanent.

Lumps and cysts may be associated with larger volumes of fat transfer, ie 500 ccs+.
Dr B’s Asian patient developed lumps that were still present at 1 year and others required draining of cysts.

Who is good at breast FT?
There are several surgeons in USA who have happy patients so do join the fat transfer to breast FB group if you are in the US and want to find a surgeon in your state, ie Dr Strawn in California, Dr Bednar in North Carolina and Dr Burns in Texas. Be mindful that transfer of large volumes may include tumescent fluid so the final result may go down, the cost is as high as $11.5k for the first round alone and there is a real risk of cysts and lumps with larger volumes. The surgeons may also be clinic based and not hospital based so your price may include a nurse anaesthetist and may not include a doctor anaesthetist. There is an ongoing debate whether a nurse is as good as a doctor in administering anaesthesia. I won’t go into it.

In the U.K., I can personally recommend Dr David Floyd at £5.6k at the Wellington (+£85 covid swab test preop +£250 consult fee) or £4.7k at the Highgate Hospital or Bushey Spire. He operates from different hospitals. He limits fat transfer to 200 ccs a breast to minimise risks of lumps or cysts. If you have asymmetry, tuberous defects or just want to go up a cup size, then 200 ccs is more than enough. I had 145 ccs and 175 ccs to correct asymmetry and a type 1 tuberous defect and went up from 32c to 32e. I am now at 5.5 weeks and still a 32e cup. I am force feeding myself fat and protein daily and trying to maintain a weight above 99.4 lbs which is hard to do as I have fast metabolism. I have 6.5 weeks more to go to hit the 3 month mark for permanency.

I have not researched the plastic surgeons in Europe for breast FT but no doubt there will be some good surgeons in Germany and Belgium.

In Korea, Dr Hong of Fresh clinic is the most well known for breast FT at 4.4 million won (price January 2020) but he administers his own IV cocktail so there is no separate anaesthetic doctor. His results look good on realself (@ahgah). For those outside Korea, factor in the cost of flights, 2 week quarantine hotel, hotel during recovery, paying up to 200,000 won extra for a compression garment and meds as these are not included in the price of surgery. For those in Asia and on a budget, Dr Hong works out to be the cheapest and best option.


----------



## MissOrange

For those with asymmetric breasts, tubular defects, explant loss of breast tissue, or just want to go up a cup size or 2 naturally, breast fat transfer works! Here is my 5.5 week update. I have 6.5 more weeks of a diet high in fat and protein to go for permanency. From stuffing a 32c bra with 2 pairs of sports socks to wearing a 32e bra with no sports socks! By keeping transfer volumes below 200 ccs a side, David Floyd has reduced the risk of lumps or cysts. I have no lumps or cysts, just soft natural full breasts. You can then expand the transplanted fat cells by upping your fat intake. I was a 34 DD cup with unsafe silicone implants and now a 32 E cup with my own autologous fat! No brainer, fat transfer wins!


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday I had my first ever laser treatment with London's top laser dermatologist Dr Asif Hussein. The pain level varied between 2 and 6 with an average of 4 out of 10. He also zapped the cherry angiomas in the area for free! He then injected intradermally into the hypertrophic surgical scars with kenalog 40. At £450 a pop, I cannot afford a second round so will rely on just steroid injections in future if needed. I have been reading that steroid injections are the first line treatment for hypertrophic scars as they do respond more so than keloids.

The scars look a bit charred when I looked at home as one would expect from laser, so I applied some topical bacitracin and zinc ointment. Fingers crossed it works. My theory is my body developed hypertrophic scars as all the tension of the pursestring sutures of a periareolar mini lift was around the areola and not supported by a vertical incision of a full anchor lift. I would strongly advise against the periareolar donut lift as it has left me with low positioned nipples (nipple sag) and breast sag after deswelling. The breast sag has lifted some with volume from breast FT thankfully but still left with nipples positioned too low.

No wonder the clinic staff did not believe my age of 54 looking at my selfie. Instead of going into detail of how I rejuvenated my face, I just said Asian genes. lol.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Today I weigh exactly the same as my op day 17 days ago! 99.4 lbs. Uhoh. I must not go under else I may lose some fat cells. Loving my new figure! No lower back fat and my left thigh is a record 17.5 inches in circumference and my right 18 inches. So I lost 2 inches from my waist and thighs total and gained 2 inches to my bustline and my right breast defect got fixed too. That's a good deal!
> 
> View attachment 4841664


Wow. They look amazing.  You are so petite btw.


----------



## Mazikeen

NewMe83 said:


> View attachment 4845672
> 
> 
> Hello Miss Orange, I have been reading and following all your posts “quietly” and I wish to THANK YOU for sharring all this honest, detailed valuable information. You are absolutely beautiful and you look amazing!!! Wow, you do look like a “20 something” indeed!!!
> I myself had a few plastic surgeries done so far: breast implants, blepharoplasty, 3 nose tip surgeries, “love handles” lipo. Also I had a sleeve gastrectomy surgery as I’ve been battling with food addiction for many years. The latest plastic procesure I had done is a V line at View in Seoul, 2 years and a half ago. My chin was wide and the results have been great but the same year I also lost nearly 30kg from my stomach reduction and then I started to have sagging underneath my chin. Also the skin around smile lines is looser and it creases when I smile. Although I am only going to be 37 in December this year I am considerring having a smas FL. Like you, the scars puts me off and I wish a scarfree FL would be available. Also with natural results, to still look like myself. I wanted to ask you if you’ve seen any results/scars of a smas FL in real life? I only seen it in pictures and I know too, that you cannot always trust that as they can be edited... Would you recommend any doctors? I have my eyes on some doctors in Turkey but I am not sure who to trust... Any sugestions please?
> I also live in London. Many thanks in advance and sorry for my English.


Please avoid Turkey. The surgery results are horrendous.  Most of the pics you see on their IG or websites are photoshopped or stock photos.  There was a girl from the UK on reddit who went for Breast reduction there and is now in ICU with blood poisoning.  Her incisions became infected and tissue necrotic.  She will need a mastectomy. So many botched rhinoplasties too.  Avoid at all costs.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Today marks 3 weeks since my breast FT with harvesting fat from my flanks, thighs and knees. I put together a collage of my b+a back of thighs cellulite. Not only did David Floyd harvest fat but he also smoothed out the skin and got rid of the cellulite! I just have one area of loose upper thigh skin on my left thigh that I have wrapped with pink sport kinesiology tape in hopes it tightens up the skin. My breasts are still full. No need to inundate you with more breast selfies so here is one of the back of my thighs. Incredible to think I have now had my left thigh liposuctioned 8 times and my right 7 times. I am done with liposuction and breast ops.
> 
> View attachment 4846054


Omg amazing.  He even smoothed out the scar tissue from previous lipos which is very difficult.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Yesterday I had my first ever laser treatment with London's top laser dermatologist Dr Asif Hussein. The pain level varied between 2 and 6 with an average of 4 out of 10. He also zapped the cherry angiomas in the area for free! He then injected intradermally into the hypertrophic surgical scars with kenalog 40. At £450 a pop, I cannot afford a second round so will rely on just steroid injections in future if needed. I have been reading that steroid injections are the first line treatment for hypertrophic scars as they do respond more so than keloids.
> 
> The scars look a bit charred when I looked at home as one would expect from laser, so I applied some topical bacitracin and zinc ointment. Fingers crossed it works. My theory is my body developed hypertrophic scars as all the tension of the pursestring sutures of a periareolar mini lift was around the areola and not supported by a vertical incision of a full anchor lift. I would strongly advise against the periareolar donut lift as it has left me with low positioned nipples (nipple sag) and breast sag after deswelling. The breast sag has lifted some with volume from breast FT thankfully but still left with nipples positioned too low.
> 
> No wonder the clinic staff did not believe my age of 54 looking at my selfie. Instead of going into detail of how I rejuvenated my face, I just said Asian genes. lol.
> 
> View attachment 4865490
> 
> 
> View attachment 4865492


Haha, yes, keep them guessing. Then start a beauty product line and tell them that is what you use.  People will buy coz you look fantastic. Look how successful Rihanna is with her makeup and skin products atm.  People purchase coz her skin looks amazing.


----------



## MissOrange

@Mazikeen Had I known breast FT would sculpt my lower body too, I would have booked the surgery last year! I was so worried about lumps, oil cysts, fat necrosis that I kept putting off breast FT. But in good surgical hands and with smaller volumes, these risks are close to zero. Even my flanks are now smooth at 6 weeks which makes my bum look better! Before I had love handle bulges when wearing tangas but now the contour is younger! I like looking younger! Lol. I had to cover up the underwear as I realised I put it on inside out! Dead giveaway I am actually an old lady who needs better glasses! Lol. Who would guess my backside belongs to a 54 year old! To think I thought I was knock kneed until David pointed out I had fat in my medial knees! After he removed the fat in my knees and fat in my upper inner thighs, the shape of my medial thighs is now straighter and more importantly...younger! Lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Please avoid Turkey. The surgery results are horrendous.  Most of the pics you see on their IG or websites are photoshopped or stock photos.  There was a girl from the UK on reddit who went for Breast reduction there and is now in ICU with blood poisoning.  Her incisions became infected and tissue necrotic.  She will need a mastectomy. So many botched rhinoplasties too.  Avoid at all costs.


OMG that is awful. Poor lady. I just learned that the most affordable U.K. surgeon for explant is Dr Vik Vijh in Birmingham! I saw him on a plastic surgery tv show for something else and was really impressed. He only charges £3200 while other U.K. surgeons are charging over £5k.


----------



## MissOrange

I just saw a photo of Demi Moore in Vanity Fair at age 57 from July. I feel so sorry for her. She needs facial FT to volumise her face. I wish I could take her to Korea with me, lol. It really is sad how ageing causes loss of facial bone structure, loss of facial volume and skin sagging. If she cut her hair, got a curtain fringe and shaped a bob around her face, it would soften her jawline. Even sadder thinking of all the young girls who get extreme v line in Korea which removes a lot of jawbone and then may need to pay more for smas lift every 5 years or annual threadlifts. I shudder to think of how little jawbone they will have in their 50s. I am holding off on smas facelift as it is very unpredictable as to how one will look after the skin and smas layer are trimmed, pulled and sutured back. There is no going back from a bad facelift!


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> @Mazikeen Had I known breast FT would sculpt my lower body too, I would have booked the surgery last year! I was so worried about lumps, oil cysts, fat necrosis that I kept putting off breast FT. But in good surgical hands and with smaller volumes, these risks are close to zero. Even my flanks are now smooth at 6 weeks which makes my bum look better! Before I had love handle bulges when wearing tangas but now the contour is younger! I like looking younger! Lol. I had to cover up the underwear as I realised I put it on inside out! Dead giveaway I am actually an old lady who needs better glasses! Lol. Who would guess my backside belongs to a 54 year old! To think I thought I was knock kneed until David pointed out I had fat in my medial knees! After he removed the fat in my knees and fat in my upper inner thighs, the shape of my medial thighs is now straighter and more importantly...younger! Lol.
> 
> View attachment 4865762


He did an amazing job.  Did he do the lipo under sedation or GA?


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> He did an amazing job.  Did he do the lipo under sedation or GA?


Hi @Mazikeen the lipo was done under GA to harvest fat for the breast fat transfer.

I won't be getting a second round of laser treatment for my hypertrophic scars as recovery is traumatic! My scars look black and red like a laser burn! I have to question why I paid for laser. I had no idea about this kind of recovery. I miss my pink scars! It is day 3 and my scars look worse than before laser. Sigh. I have my postop review with David in 3 days time. What do I say to him? He will ask me why I went to a dermatologist for laser treatment instead of ask him for surgical scar excision.

I pray my skin heals. I do not recommend laser. Even the derm nurse asked me why I was going for laser first. I never thought laser would burn my skin. So naive. 

I should have read this cautionary tale first on laser. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...p.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Mazikeen the lipo was done under GA to harvest fat for the breast fat transfer.
> 
> I won't be getting a second round of laser treatment for my hypertrophic scars as recovery is traumatic! My scars look black and red like a laser burn! I have to question why I paid for laser. I had no idea about this kind of recovery. I miss my pink scars! It is day 3 and my scars look worse than before laser. Sigh. I have my postop review with David in 3 days time. What do I say to him? He will ask me why I went to a dermatologist for laser treatment instead of ask him for surgical scar excision.
> 
> I pray my skin heals. I do not recommend laser. Even the derm nurse asked me why I was going for laser first. I never thought laser would burn my skin. So naive.
> 
> I should have read this cautionary tale first on laser. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...p.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


Omg.  So sorry to hear that.  The results on his IG are impressive.  I think they are just scabs and after it heals you'll see an improvement. Give it another 2 weeks. Apply a thick cream like Eucerin original healing cream to speed up the process. What type of laser did he use?


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> Omg.  So sorry to hear that.  The results on his IG are impressive.  I think they are just scabs and after it heals you'll see an improvement. Give it another 2 weeks. Apply a thick cream like Eucerin original healing cream to speed up the process. What type of laser did he use?


Hi @Mazikeen, I hope so. But when the skin sloughed off with jagged edges and oozed fluid and left exposed raw flesh and other parts looked charred black, I thought this is more a second degree burn. He must not have registered when I said I had decreased sensation in my nipples, ie areola skin too, after failed donut lift and revision. He kept asking me to tell him how painful it was as he dialled up the laser but I could not feel much and kept saying 2 or 3 out of 10, and he said he needed it to be 5-7 to be working so he kept dialling it up but I could not say 7 as I could not feel it! I shudder to think of how much my scar was burned as I could not gauge the pain level with reduced to nil sensation. I have no idea which laser he used as I got nothing in writing. No consultation summary. No invoice. No letter for my GP. No after care sheet. No evidence I had any procedure done as appointments were texted by his PA and the receipt was a clinic credit card receipt! And when I emailed him, he only replied that his PA will get back to me. In fact he gave me no written evidence I had any procedure! I then looked him up on the GMC website and he has not completed any specialty training so is not a board certified doctor in any specialty, not even dermatology! Had I known this, I would not have chosen him but rather gone to a board certified consultant dermatologist. Someone has also mentioned Manuka honey and aloe vera. I also took doxycycline as it looked like the burst blister was infected as the skin around was painful, red and spreading. I have added Manuka honey to my online groceries. They don’t sell aloe vera though. I have tried bacitracin ointment with zinc, hydrocortisone cream, sudocrem which helps as it has a mild anaesthetic too, bio oil and tomorrow Manuka. I fell for his IG ad and did not do due diligence. I forgot to find past patients who had similar procedures done by him to ask for their experiences.

I see my board certified plastic surgeon David on Wednesday for my breast FT postop review, so can have him check over my laser burns. Remember folks, forget laser. Go with kenalog steroid injections by a board certified dermatologist if you have hypertrophic scars which are far more common than keloid scars. They even say that hypertrophic scars usually resolve on their own by 2 years and that a burn can cause a hypertrophic scar! I should have waited it out with my scars rather than go for something this extreme. Dr H’s nurse did try to warn me asking me why I was going for laser which is extreme and that my scars were not that bad to begin with. I did not know what she meant by extreme. Now I know!


----------



## MissOrange

Great news! The US FDA has issued a black box warning on breast implants! Hope young ladies flying to Korea for breast implants read the warning! The fda declares it is NOT a life long device and requires regular screening for ruptures, initially 5-6 years post implantation then every 2-3 years forever while in situ, that surgeons issue cards with details of the implant inserted and of the risk of anaplastic large cell lymphoma cancer. How many naive young ladies getting implants know this?

Opt instead for breast fat transfer augmentation.

OMG I learned that laser CAN cause fat atrophy! Aargh! Why did I get laser to my periareolar scars after breast FT?! I even asked Dr H before the procedure if laser would affect my fat graft and he said no it could cause skin atrophy, not fat atrophy but surgeons says otherwise! OMG this board certified plastic surgeon says fat loss from laser can continue for weeks or months and the treatment is to replace fat with fat transfer!!! But I have stupidly done the opposite and got fat transfer first then laser! https://www.cosmeticsurg.net/blog/why-laser-resurfacing-can-cause-facial-fat-loss/#:~:text=Why?,injected into the subcutaneous layer.









						FDA finalizes black box warning for breast implants
					

The term "breast implant illness," which one industry group decried as not used in clinical practice, appears multiple times throughout the agency's document but not in its example boxed warning.




					www.medtechdive.com


----------



## Beautsy

Nothing


----------



## missy_sana

MissOrange said:


> Great news! The US FDA has issued a black box warning on breast implants! Hope young ladies flying to Korea for breast implants read the warning! The fda declares it is NOT a life long device and requires regular screening for ruptures, initially 5-6 years post implantation then every 2-3 years forever while in situ, that surgeons issue cards with details of the implant inserted and of the risk of anaplastic large cell lymphoma cancer. How many naive young ladies getting implants know this?
> 
> Opt instead for breast fat transfer augmentation.
> 
> OMG I learned that laser CAN cause fat atrophy! Aargh! Why did I get laser to my periareolar scars after breast FT?! I even asked Dr H before the procedure if laser would affect my fat graft and he said no it could cause skin atrophy, not fat atrophy but surgeons says otherwise! OMG this board certified plastic surgeon says fat loss from laser can continue for weeks or months and the treatment is to replace fat with fat transfer!!! But I have stupidly done the opposite and got fat transfer first then laser! https://www.cosmeticsurg.net/blog/why-laser-resurfacing-can-cause-facial-fat-loss/#:~:text=Why?,injected into the subcutaneous layer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FDA finalizes black box warning for breast implants
> 
> 
> The term "breast implant illness," which one industry group decried as not used in clinical practice, appears multiple times throughout the agency's document but not in its example boxed warning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.medtechdive.com




LOL, the FDA sure took its sweet a** time to warn us this. But I think alot of naive ladies would still go for implants anyway (breasts, butt, nose, whatever) even if they were alerted to the risk of death warning, just because their deep insecurities are strong enough to override their rational mind, AND they can't bring themselves to say "No" even when the gut instinct kicks in.

A close friend recently said they wanted to get a nose job at ID Hospital, and I was like "Hell No! Have you ever searched the PS forums?  Or are you that ignorant?  Or did you make an impulse decision based on a couple of ID sponsored Youtuber vlogs?  Biatch, just don't go to Seoul without ME !!"

Luckily, I have Miss Orange and countless other botched implant users to thank for sharing their stories, otherwise I would've renewed my guinea-pig club membership with two holes on my chest, or two deflated sacks at the most. 

I really appreciate the experiences that you openly shared, but I sincerely wish that you could've done more to research and be in control of avoiding your misfortunes, given your medical background.  It frustrates me to see a friend and ex-doctor at the mercy of conmen like Asif who can get away with lack of professional credentials in London just like Hong @ Fresh in Korea.  And whyyyyyyy would skin atrophy seem more acceptable than fat atrophy?  Because either would be a warning bell already. 

We all need self-love, self-control and due diligence more than plastic surgery itself.

Sigh!  Now I need to justify having spent over £100 today for my health sake = £55 for a 7-day blood replenishment remedy + £66 on a jar of 120 herbal hair loss capsules.  Feeling swindled? Ouch, yes.  But it's not surgery, right?


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Mazikeen, I hope so. But when the skin sloughed off with jagged edges and oozed fluid and left exposed raw flesh and other parts looked charred black, I thought this is more a second degree burn. He must not have registered when I said I had decreased sensation in my nipples, ie areola skin too, after failed donut lift and revision. He kept asking me to tell him how painful it was as he dialled up the laser but I could not feel much and kept saying 2 or 3 out of 10, and he said he needed it to be 5-7 to be working so he kept dialling it up but I could not say 7 as I could not feel it! I shudder to think of how much my scar was burned as I could not gauge the pain level with reduced to nil sensation. I have no idea which laser he used as I got nothing in writing. No consultation summary. No invoice. No letter for my GP. No after care sheet. No evidence I had any procedure done as appointments were texted by his PA and the receipt was a clinic credit card receipt! And when I emailed him, he only replied that his PA will get back to me. In fact he gave me no written evidence I had any procedure! I then looked him up on the GMC website and he has not completed any specialty training so is not a board certified doctor in any specialty, not even dermatology! Had I known this, I would not have chosen him but rather gone to a board certified consultant dermatologist. Someone has also mentioned Manuka honey and aloe vera. I also took doxycycline as it looked like the burst blister was infected as the skin around was painful, red and spreading. I have added Manuka honey to my online groceries. They don’t sell aloe vera though. I have tried bacitracin ointment with zinc, hydrocortisone cream, sudocrem which helps as it has a mild anaesthetic too, bio oil and tomorrow Manuka. I fell for his IG ad and did not do due diligence. I forgot to find past patients who had similar procedures done by him to ask for their experiences.
> 
> I see my board certified plastic surgeon David on Wednesday for my breast FT postop review, so can have him check over my laser burns. Remember folks, forget laser. Go with kenalog steroid injections by a board certified dermatologist if you have hypertrophic scars which are far more common than keloid scars. They even say that hypertrophic scars usually resolve on their own by 2 years and that a burn can cause a hypertrophic scar! I should have waited it out with my scars rather than go for something this extreme. Dr H’s nurse did try to warn me asking me why I was going for laser which is extreme and that my scars were not that bad to begin with. I did not know what she meant by extreme. Now I know!


That is terrible.  Wishing you a speedy recovery.  You could try RF Microneedling - I saw some good results on scars.  Pico laser is also supposed to be good and is milder than the normal CO2 laser but I don't know how good it is for scars.


----------



## MissOrange

Thank you @Mazikeen and @missy_sana for supporting me through my ups and downs of plastic surgery, the good and the bad.

Today I saw Cambridge graduate board certified consultant plastic surgeon David Floyd in the Wellington hospital and he had to do a double take when he saw how big my breasts were! Lol. He looked my records up to remind himself how much he had put in each breast. I bet he asked himself did I put 320 ccs in each or was that 320 ccs total? Lol. He took postop photos and marvelled at the improved breast shape. He showed me my icky consult photo of asymmetric breasts with a shrunken right tubular breast from back in July! Boy what a difference to my life between July and now!

He kindly examined my periareolar laser burns and confirmed areas had been over aggressively lasered (see photo) and that he would not recommend getting laser and steroid injections at the same time. I had to say yes twice as he couldn’t believe Dr H did both at the same time. He said he had his own laser specialist he recommended to his patients. He reassured me the burns would heal, that I did not need to go to ER and that he could reassess the scars in 3 months and excise and close with nonabsorbable prolene sutures (which can be removed before the body reacts).

He had to ask me where the lipo sites were as he could not find any lipo scars! Lol. I told him I removed my sutures after 24 hours and let the sites heal by secondary intention which left no scars. I have added photos of my lipo scars.

He said his phone has been ringing off the hook after I posted my photos on social media. Lol. He said they keep referring to the lady who posted her photos from the morning of her surgery for breast FT. Well he deserves the business as he truly is the UK’s own Dr B for autologous fat transfer. With a US travel ban with no end in sight, ladies have to research within the U.K. or Europe. And David works out cheaper! £250 consult, £5670 operation with GA in a private hospital or £900 less in his outlier hospitals and £85 hospital covid swab test.

Here is today’s photo. Yay I fit a 32e bra again and I now have a back up plan to sort out my laser fried areola scars.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Thank you @Mazikeen and @missy_sana for supporting me through my ups and downs of plastic surgery, the good and the bad.
> 
> Today I saw Cambridge graduate board certified consultant plastic surgeon David Floyd in the Wellington hospital and he had to do a double take when he saw how big my breasts were! Lol. He looked my records up to remind himself how much he had put in each breast. I bet he asked himself did I put 320 ccs in each or was that 320 ccs total? Lol. He took postop photos and marvelled at the improved breast shape. He showed me my icky consult photo of asymmetric breasts with a shrunken right tubular breast from back in July! Boy what a difference to my life between July and now!
> 
> He kindly examined my periareolar laser burns and confirmed areas had been over aggressively lasered (see photo) and that he would not recommend getting laser and steroid injections at the same time. I had to say yes twice as he couldn’t believe Dr H did both at the same time. He said he had his own laser specialist he recommended to his patients. He reassured me the burns would heal, that I did not need to go to ER and that he could reassess the scars in 3 months and excise and close with nonabsorbable prolene sutures (which can be removed before the body reacts).
> 
> He had to ask me where the lipo sites were as he could not find any lipo scars! Lol. I told him I removed my sutures after 24 hours and let the sites heal by secondary intention which left no scars. I have added photos of my lipo scars.
> 
> He said his phone has been ringing off the hook after I posted my photos on social media. Lol. He said they keep referring to the lady who posted her photos from the morning of her surgery for breast FT. Well he deserves the business as he truly is the UK’s own Dr B for autologous fat transfer. With a US travel ban with no end in sight, ladies have to research within the U.K. or Europe. And David works out cheaper! £250 consult, £5670 operation with GA in a private hospital or £900 less in his outlier hospitals and £85 hospital covid swab test.
> 
> Here is today’s photo. Yay I fit a 32e bra again and I now have a back up plan to sort out my laser fried areola scars.
> 
> View attachment 4870634
> 
> 
> View attachment 4870645
> 
> 
> View attachment 4870647


The boobies look fantastic. You've been feeding them well, lol, no wonder he did a double take.  Wow, the laser scars look nasty.  He was definitely too aggressive and the settings were too high for such a sensitive area.


----------



## Tremere

@MissOrange I just got a breast lift with fat transfer done. The place where I got the fat extracted hurts more than the breast lift itself.


----------



## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> @MissOrange I just got a breast lift with fat transfer done. The place where I got the fat extracted hurts more than the breast lift itself.


Yes @Tremere full lower body liposuction caused me intense aches and pains from days 3-6, so bad I swore I would never have surgery again. Try to get a rx for diclofenac or something stronger than tylenol. Join the liposuction and fat transfer FB groups. You can follow the healing progress others are going through too.


----------



## MissOrange

On Friday I had had enough of this laser doc Dr Asif Hussein telling me my laser fried areola was normal so I sent a photo to my NHS GP (no face to face due to covid) and he prescribed augmentin antibiotics and said he would refer me to the Chelsea and Westminster hospital burns unit. I sent Dr H the same photo and his reply was it was normal. I sent more and still his reply was it was fine!!!

I was so mad I headed straight for Chelsea and Westminster A&E Friday afternoon as this was where all burns referrals get sent from most of London. I saw the A&E nurse who confirmed it was a burn and rang their burns unit who gave me a Monday morning urgent burns clinic appointment. She said to wait as she also wanted plastics to see me as she said she used to work in breast surgery and she was very worried. Then the male A&E doctor saw me and he was shocked and wanted the breast surgeons to see me immediately and sent me to Charing Cross hospital but by the time I got there (massive traffic jam) the breast team had left by 5 pm. The surgeon on call examined me, told me it was not fine, that it was a burn, took my number and passed it on to the plastics on call to arrange an appointment with plastics clinic for next week.

Yesterday I rang my GP surgery for a rx for silvadene burn cream now that an A&E nurse, my GP and A&E doctor had all confirmed burn injury but the surgery was closed on weekends so I headed for my local A&E at St Thomas'. The A&E triage nurse looked and said they did not have a burns unit and that all burns went to ChelWest. I said I just want silvadene cream and burn dressings. So I got to see the A&E doctor who examined me and contacted the plastics SHO on call. She saw me on the multispecialty assessment unit for a non healing wound and she examined me and said it was a burn and cleaned and dressed it with strips of duoderm. She said I would get a call to my mobile with a plastics clinic appointment for next week.

So in total 5 doctors and 3 nurses all confirmed I had a laser burn vs the laser doc insisted it was fine.

Here is what Dr Asif Hussein, the laser doc from Skin Clinic said.




I also joined a burns survivor FB group as I figured real burns victims would also know what a third degree burn looked like and here is their verdict. This all coincides with what my Cambridge med school graduate consultant breast FT plastic surgeon David Floyd called it an overly aggressive laser and not advisable to do steroid injections simultaneously when he saw it on Wednesday. David had told me it would take 3 months to heal!!!


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> On Friday I had had enough of this laser doc Dr Asif Hussein telling me my laser fried areola was normal so I sent a photo to my NHS GP (no face to face due to covid) and he prescribed augmentin antibiotics and said he would refer me to the Chelsea and Westminster hospital burns unit. I sent Dr H the same photo and his reply was it was normal. I sent more and still his reply was it was fine!!!
> 
> I was so mad I headed straight for Chelsea and Westminster A&E Friday afternoon as this was where all burns referrals get sent from most of London. I saw the A&E nurse who confirmed it was a burn and rang their burns unit who gave me a Monday morning urgent burns clinic appointment. She said to wait as she also wanted plastics to see me as she said she used to work in breast surgery and she was very worried. Then the male A&E doctor saw me and he was shocked and wanted the breast surgeons to see me immediately and sent me to Charing Cross hospital but by the time I got there (massive traffic jam) the breast team had left by 5 pm. The surgeon on call examined me, told me it was not fine, that it was a burn, took my number and passed it on to the plastics on call to arrange an appointment with plastics clinic for next week.
> 
> Yesterday I rang my GP surgery for a rx for silvadene burn cream now that an A&E nurse, my GP and A&E doctor had all confirmed burn injury but the surgery was closed on weekends so I headed for my local A&E at St Thomas'. The A&E triage nurse looked and said they did not have a burns unit and that all burns went to ChelWest. I said I just want silvadene cream and burn dressings. So I got to see the A&E doctor who examined me and contacted the plastics SHO on call. She saw me on the multispecialty assessment unit for a non healing wound and she examined me and said it was a burn and cleaned and dressed it with strips of duoderm. She said I would get a call to my mobile with a plastics clinic appointment for next week.
> 
> So in total 5 doctors and 3 nurses all confirmed I had a laser burn vs the laser doc insisted it was fine.
> 
> Here is what Dr Asif Hussein, the laser doc from Skin Clinic said.
> 
> View attachment 4874857
> 
> 
> I also joined a burns survivor FB group as I figured real burns victims would also know what a third degree burn looked like and here is their verdict. This all coincides with what my Cambridge med school graduate consultant breast FT plastic surgeon David Floyd called it an overly aggressive laser and not advisable to do steroid injections simultaneously when he saw it on Wednesday. David had told me it would take 3 months to heal!!!
> 
> View attachment 4874858


This is serious coz by now a scab should have formed so that the wound under can start healing.  Maybe also take some arnica capsules to speed up the healing.


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @Mazikeen, Yes I now have an urgent appointment at 9:30 am at the burns unit clinic at Chelsea and Westminster tomorrow. Here is just a sample of the type of gaslighting Dr Asif Hussein subjected me to instead of tell me the truth, that he had set the laser too high and given me a third degree burn. I shudder to think of the kind of gaslighting that may occur in blacklisted clinics in Korea who may also not take responsibility for their botches.


----------



## MissOrange

This morning I was seen at the Chelsea and Westminster hospital burns unit that accepts referrals from all over London, ie it is the only NHS burns unit in London! And yep the consultant burns specialist confirmed I have a full thickness periareolar laser burn. It was debrided, ie the yellow eschars were excised, the yellow discharge swabbed, the burn dressed and I have been booked for surgery on Thursday under local. I am stressed as I am terrified about more surgery and risk to the nipple areola complex blood supply but the consultant said wound cleaning and closure would speed up recovery else I would face months for the open burn wound to heal and a much bigger periareolar scar! Pray for me!


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> This morning I was seen at the Chelsea and Westminster hospital burns unit that accepts referrals from all over London, ie it is the only NHS burns unit in London! And yep the consultant burns specialist confirmed I have a full thickness periareolar laser burn. It was debrided, ie the yellow eschars were excised, the yellow discharge swabbed, the burn dressed and I have been booked for surgery on Thursday under local. I am stressed as I am terrified about more surgery and risk to the nipple areola complex blood supply but the consultant said wound cleaning and closure would speed up recovery else I would face months for the open burn wound to heal and a much bigger periareolar scar! Pray for me!








You're going to be fine.  Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## MissOrange

My surgery is tomorrow at the NHS Chelsea and Westminster hospital. I have no idea what it will look like so hoping for the best. I do so want to be done with surgery. I called and there is a bed reserved for me for tomorrow. On the NHS one calls the hospital after 6 pm to make sure you can still have your operation the next day. And I have been told the consultant will do my operation and not a junior doctor after the laser doc rang one of the burns consultants yesterday evening while she was at home! She has no idea how he got her personal number! The laser doc then whatsapped me that he has found out who will do my surgery tomorrow and has spoken to him too! OMG! He is crossing the line interfering with my NHS burns care.


----------



## Mimmiesmama

Hi Ms Orange
Sorry to hear about your troubles. It’s just appalling! Good luck with your surgery tomorrow.


----------



## MissOrange

Mimmiesmama said:


> Hi Ms Orange
> Sorry to hear about your troubles. It’s just appalling! Good luck with your surgery tomorrow.


Thanks @Mimmiesmama! I am in pain at the moment, but at least I won’t need to do daily open wound cleaning and dressings now that it has been debrided and closed. 2 weeks was enough! I found out that laser treatment heals in a few days so this 2 weeks of open wound was not normal.


----------



## MissOrange

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @Mimmiesmama! I am in pain at the moment, but at least I won’t need to do daily open wound cleaning and dressings now that it has been debrided and closed. 2 weeks was enough! I found out that laser treatment heals in a few days so this 2 weeks of open wound was not normal. The laser doc messaged me again today! He was upset my surgeon now refused to speak with him! Yay, the head of the hospital information governance had emailed the surgeons and they got the message.


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday was 8 weeks post breast fat transfer. I put a collage of b+a. In both photos I weigh 99.4 lbs! Incredible how breast FT can look like implants and I will never have to deal with ruptures, silent intracapsular rupture, implant recalls as unsafe, implants that can cause cancer in lab rats or in humans, breast implant illness with my own autoimmune system attacking both the implants and my own body or have to pay for exchanges. The us fda has now put a black box warning on all breast implants stating it does not last a lifetime and requires regular scans to check for ruptures. More and more ethical surgeons are now refusing to put in breast implants.

This is the future and breast implants will become obsolete, as breast fat transfer surgeons get better and better worldwide!

For the cost of one set of implants, you get breast FT and free liposuction of any combination of your fatty areas, ie arms, tummy, flanks, thighs and/or knees. I call it a 2 for 1 special!

And I have cracked how to only need one round of fat transfer. Drop your weight before your surgery (go 3-5 lbs below your ideal weight) and then keep it above after. Get a weight tracking app. Here are my Aug-Oct weights. The dip in August is my weight loss prior to surgery on August 22. Your weight at surgery then becomes the ideal target weight (green line) never to go below. Then overeat fats and protein every day to combat post surgical  hypermetabolic catabolism of fats. Because you are fighting hypermetabolism you will need to consume a huge amount of calories just to maintain a weight. No exercise for 3 months. Netflix in bed becomes the best activity for fat cell survival.


----------



## MissOrange

Another plastic surgery death in a clinic based setting...I am glad I paid more for a hospital and consultant anaesthetist than a clinic with nurse anaesthetist. https://people.com/health/19-year-o...iAJNlbhHK_GSim3hPMttIa1UWYKnzNxFm-eTBCP6Xic6c


----------



## cherrykiss

Hey MissOrange, just caught up on your recovery  So sorry to hear about the scarring, was that from the laser you did after? Hope all is well.


----------



## cherrykiss

MissOrange said:


> Another plastic surgery death in a clinic based setting...I am glad I paid more for a hospital and consultant anaesthetist than a clinic with nurse anaesthetist. https://people.com/health/19-year-o...iAJNlbhHK_GSim3hPMttIa1UWYKnzNxFm-eTBCP6Xic6c



I followed this girls story as well, definitely scary . Since KR still requiring quarantining time I visited a US doctor to ask about a semi-full body lipo. Think I should do it or wait until KR opens back up again? :/


----------



## MissOrange

cherrykiss said:


> Hey MissOrange, just caught up on your recovery  So sorry to hear about the scarring, was that from the laser you did after? Hope all is well.


Hi @cherrykiss yes thanks for asking. Yes the burn was from the ktp laser the doctor used.


----------



## MissOrange

cherrykiss said:


> I followed this girls story as well, definitely scary . Since KR still requiring quarantining time I visited a US doctor to ask about a semi-full body lipo. Think I should do it or wait until KR opens back up again? :/


Hi @cherrykiss a semi full body lipo sounds like a major operation. I would suggest booking in your home country USA. The pain will be immense and Korea only gives tylenol postop. You may wish to have GA with such extensive lipo. And you would need someone at home to help you recover as you may feel battered and bruised for 1-2 weeks.


----------



## cherrykiss

MissOrange said:


> Hi @cherrykiss a semi full body lipo sounds like a major operation. I would suggest booking in your home country USA. The pain will be immense and Korea only gives tylenol postop. You may wish to have GA with such extensive lipo. And you would need someone at home to help you recover as you may feel battered and bruised for 1-2 weeks.



Yea for me the recovery would be all the same. Just me, myself and I regardless in KR or US haha. 

The only thing is, I feel like KR does so many more operations on a daily basis and they seem to take out more fat (aesthetically in KR it's more acceptable). 

Here I talked with an KR US doc who I've gone to in the past - for an eyelid revision and other touchups. The GA part definitely does freak me out however, especially after reading the article . I haven't done any surgeries in awhile that required GA but it would be required for this op so it's a bit nerve wrecking.


----------



## MissOrange

cherrykiss said:


> Yea for me the recovery would be all the same. Just me, myself and I regardless in KR or US haha.
> 
> The only thing is, I feel like KR does so many more operations on a daily basis and they seem to take out more fat (aesthetically in KR it's more acceptable).
> 
> Here I talked with an KR US doc who I've gone to in the past - for an eyelid revision and other touchups. The GA part definitely does freak me out however, especially after reading the article . I haven't done any surgeries in awhile that required GA but it would be required for this op so it's a bit nerve wrecking.


Difficult call @cherrykiss. Yes it seems Korea takes a lot more fat out than the US or is it that the Instagram after photos are photoshopped to appear much more is taken out? Always find real past patients and ask for their photos directly. The risk is IV sedation with no resuscitation equipment if things go wrong. The more areas that are liposuctioned, the more the blood loss. Hypovolaemic shock is a risk with multiple area extensive liposuction. For extensive lipo, I would advise GA in a fully equipped hospital for safety reasons.


----------



## MissOrange

10 weeks and 5 days post breast fat transfer and still retaining. I am over my hypermetabolic postop surgical phase as I am finding it a lot easier to gain weight! Aargh! Still able to wear a 32e cup bra. I have just 1 week and 2 days left of this high fat, high protein diet. I found out the star patient of David’s, who retained all, continued her high fat diet for 5 months postop for permanency. With the U.K. back in lockdown, I shall have no choice but to eat all day so maybe I shall carry on with this diet until after lockdown.

With such good fat retention, I think we can give fat transfer a thumbs up as a viable and safer alternative to breast implants. And I never have to worry about implant rupture or recall! Yay!


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> 10 weeks and 5 days post breast fat transfer and still retaining. I am over my hypermetabolic postop surgical phase as I am finding it a lot easier to gain weight! Aargh! Still able to wear a 32e cup bra. I have just 1 week and 2 days left of this high fat, high protein diet. I found out the star patient of David’s, who retained all, continued her high fat diet for 5 months postop for permanency. With the U.K. back in lockdown, I shall have no choice but to eat all day so maybe I shall carry on with this diet until after lockdown.
> 
> With such good fat retention, I think we can give fat transfer a thumbs up as a viable and safer alternative to breast implants. And I never have to worry about implant rupture or recall! Yay!
> 
> View attachment 4898592
> 
> 
> View attachment 4898603


 @ eat all day. Will be expecting to see a triple Z cup at the end of the lockdown. Has the skin in the inner thighs tightened more?


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> @ eat all day. Will be expecting to see a triple Z cup at the end of the lockdown. Has the skin in the inner thighs tightened more?


@Mazikeen, the breasts are now all sorted. The skin on my upper inner left thigh is still a bit loose. The right side is fine. I am just going to accept this imperfection until it sags more with ageing as there is no chance of a sun holiday until next summer at the earliest. My concern is any surgical inner crescent thigh lift scar may sag below the bikini line and be visible. I think I need to start exercising but still can’t get motivated in my 50s! Lol. Always hated PE classes and still do! Lol.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> @Mazikeen, the breasts are now all sorted. The skin on my upper inner left thigh is still a bit loose. The right side is fine. I am just going to accept this imperfection until it sags more with ageing as there is no chance of a sun holiday until next summer at the earliest. My concern is any surgical inner crescent thigh lift scar may sag below the bikini line and be visible. I think I need to start exercising but still can’t get motivated in my 50s! Lol. Always hated PE classes and still do! Lol.


I thought the more you eat the fuller the boobs become.  that happened to a friend who had a bbl.  With covid lockdown, no gym, her booty has grown huge you'd think she does 1000 squats/day.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> @Mazikeen, the breasts are now all sorted. The skin on my upper inner left thigh is still a bit loose. The right side is fine. I am just going to accept this imperfection until it sags more with ageing as there is no chance of a sun holiday until next summer at the earliest. My concern is any surgical inner crescent thigh lift scar may sag below the bikini line and be visible. I think I need to start exercising but still can’t get motivated in my 50s! Lol. Always hated PE classes and still do! Lol.



You can go to youtube and learn those kpop dance! It is pretty fun! I tried and sweat buckets!


----------



## MissOrange

After obsessing about trying to capture a true photo on my S9 of what I look like I took a friend's advice and propped the phone up, set it on a 2 second timer, stepped back and stood at the correct focal length distance a few feet away and not inches away for accuracy. Thank goodness I still look okay and do not need a facelift. That means the photo taken of me by my oh at 8 feet away showing a big round flat face and tiny nose was not accurate! Don't let anyone take your photo from more than 6 feet away or it will distort your face!


----------



## MissOrange

The lesson I have learned is there is a limit to how many times you can get your inner thighs liposuctioned. Bear this in mind if you get liposuction as you may end up having to pay for thigh lift and be left with visible long scars or scars that are below your thigh crease bikini line. I took a risk with getting thigh liposuction to harvest fat for my breasts as I had prebooked a thigh lift for 2 weeks after. I was lucky and ended up cancelling the mini thigh lift as my thighs actually improved after David Floyd harvested fat from my overused thighs. It is 12 weeks and 1 day and I took a photo of my thighs to compare with before. The top is today and the bottom before FT harvest. I have really pushed the limits of my poor thighs with 2 liposuctions of my tummy and inner thighs back in 2002 and 2004 and then a string of facial FTs and one breast FT (2020) with thigh lipo between 2016-2020. Thank goodness I can stop having plastic surgery full stop now. My upper inner left thigh is not perfect but I can live with this especially as my breasts at 12 weeks and one day are perfect and have retained 100% of the FT.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> The lesson I have learned is there is a limit to how many times you can get your inner thighs liposuctioned. Bear this in mind if you get liposuction as you may end up having to pay for thigh lift and be left with visible long scars or scars that are below your thigh crease bikini line. I took a risk with getting thigh liposuction to harvest fat for my breasts as I had prebooked a thigh lift for 2 weeks after. I was lucky and ended up cancelling the mini thigh lift as my thighs actually improved after David Floyd harvested fat from my overused thighs. It is 12 weeks and 1 day and I took a photo of my thighs to compare with before. The top is today and the bottom before FT harvest. I have really pushed the limits of my poor thighs with 2 liposuctions of my tummy and inner thighs back in 2002 and 2004 and then a string of facial FTs and one breast FT (2020) with thigh lipo between 2016-2020. Thank goodness I can stop having plastic surgery full stop now. My upper inner left thigh is not perfect but I can live with this especially as my breasts at 12 weeks and one day are perfect and have retained 100% of the FT.
> 
> View attachment 4905920


Great improvement.  Amazing how well he smoothed out the dents.


----------



## MissOrange

2020 has been a year of 2 national UK lockdowns and as a result I am getting used to lockdown hair! I think messy hair makes me look better?! Lol. I like my Korean brown eyes too. Much easier than having to fuss with coloured contact lenses that dry out my eyes within a few hours of wear.


----------



## miaou5

Do you know what the kakao is for MVP? I know this was listed earlier but I can't seem to find it currently. I would like them to use my submental fat for my face--not sure if this is even possible?

Thank you all for being so generous and getting such beautiful results!


----------



## Mazikeen

@MissOrange I saw you mentioned in a post that you consulted with Apgujeong plastic surgery - ASPS and wanted to ask what you think of the clinic?  Was considering them for revision rhinoplasty coz their resluts look nice and natural.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> @MissOrange I saw you mentioned in a post that you consulted with Apgujeong plastic surgery - ASPS and wanted to ask what you think of the clinic?  Was considering them for revision rhinoplasty coz their resluts look nice and natural.


H @Mazikeen, I didn't get past the English translator in the lobby of ASPS back in 2018. She told me I didn't need a FL so never met any surgeon there. 2 ladies have been happy with their FLs at ASPS. I haven't heard about their revision rhinos.


----------



## MissOrange

miaou5 said:


> Do you know what the kakao is for MVP? I know this was listed earlier but I can't seem to find it currently. I would like them to use my submental fat for my face--not sure if this is even possible?
> 
> Thank you all for being so generous and getting such beautiful results!


Hi @miaou5 

Go to www.mvpps.com for their contact details. But Dr Seo does not work there anymore. He has his own clinic called Machimpyo.


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @miaou5 I found some b&a photos on Dr Seo’s new website. OMG! Wow, the bottom right one is the most amazing transformation!


----------



## MissOrange

A word of caution for those using credit cards to pay for surgery. If you are an additional cardholder on your husband's or parent's credit card, section 75 cannot be claimed for botched service, as it does not benefit the primary cardholder. Make sure you apply for your own credit card. 

As for facelifts I am leaning more towards Dr Jacono in the future....


----------



## gentaro

hi missorange!! im new to the forum, but i always see you around giving such great advice!

i noticed you said v line surgery is not a good idea? i want to go to korea to get a jaw reduction when im in my early 20s (i think 23-24), do you not recommend this? sorry for the sudden question, i would love to hear your thoughts!


----------



## MissOrange

gentaro said:


> hi missorange!! im new to the forum, but i always see you around giving such great advice!
> 
> i noticed you said v line surgery is not a good idea? i want to go to korea to get a jaw reduction when im in my early 20s (i think 23-24), do you not recommend this? sorry for the sudden question, i would love to hear your thoughts!


Hi @gentaro and welcome to Tpf. It depends on how bad your jaw is. If your jaw is too big for your face and 10 friends and/or family members agree, and they also agree that v line would markedly improve your facial appearance, then proceed but know that with less bone, the facial skin will sag as the volume taken up previously by the bone will now be empty. I have seen people end up with a loss of neck contour and desperately needing a threadlift or facelift as the skin under their chin sag markedly. Threadlift is temporary and may only last between 6 and 18 months. This means you may need costly facelifts. Each facelift dissects the skin off your facial tissues and structures so in effect you may need revision facelift every 5-10 years. The bottom line is only got for v line if your jaw truly is bad and at least 10 people agree.


----------



## MissOrange

Today’s post is on the fat harvest lipo sites for breast fat transfer. It takes 3-4 months to see the final results of any liposuction procedure which includes the multiple sites harvested for FT for my breasts. Today is over 13 weeks post liposuction and my thighs are permanently 18 inches in circumference left and right (gone down an inch) and my bum has gone up an inch! In fact it has gone from flat to butt lift! Yet another reason to go for breast fat transfer over implants. You get lower body liposculpting for free! I love how it looks like I hit the gym when I haven’t! So for £5.6k, I got breast FT from 32 c/a to 32e, free butt lift and free thigh slimming and had my operation in a hospital with full resuscitation facilities and a consultant anaesthetist 1:1 patient ratio to ensure my general anaesthetic went well.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I just happened to look at Dr Seo’s Machimpyo website and was pleasantly surprised to see he has added a doctor anaesthesiologist! That means he operates 1:1 with a board certified anaesthetist. I am pleased to see he is keeping his practice safe especially for foreigner patients. I am super happy with the eyes (May 2016) and full face fat graft he gave me (Feb 2018 with top up Jan 2020).


----------



## MissOrange

With London in a Tier 4 lockdown, it is a case of all dolled up and not allowed to go anywhere. With all retail stores closed, my weight has shot up to a record 103.8 lbs which is fat by Korean 'girl' standards, yet my face looks better. It is true that I cannot have both. My face looks great by gaining weight, but I have lost my waistline! I have taught myself how to style my hair, as all salons are closed again. I like my natural brown eyes, as it makes me look Korean.


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> A word of caution for those using credit cards to pay for surgery. If you are an additional cardholder on your husband's or parent's credit card, section 75 cannot be claimed for botched service, as it does not benefit the primary cardholder. Make sure you apply for your own credit card.
> 
> As for facelifts I am leaning more towards Dr Jacono in the future....


You and me both for Jacono. Better go soon because his prices are NOT going to come down. In 2020 it is US$75,000 converted it is 55,983.43GBP then you have factor in 14 days stay in NYC


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> With London in a Tier 4 lockdown, it is a case of all dolled up and not allowed to go anywhere. With all retail stores closed, my weight has shot up to a record 103.8 lbs which is fat by Korean 'girl' standards, yet my face looks better. It is true that I cannot have both. My face looks great by gaining weight, but I have lost my waistline! I have taught myself how to style my hair, as all salons are closed again. I like my natural brown eyes, as it makes me look Korean.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 4938534


Happy holidays. Looking cute during lockdown.  Please stay safe, just read a story about a Taiwanese couple living in London who caught the new covid strain although they were in lockdown and self quarantine and had no contact to anyone.  It is mind boggling how and where they contracted the virus. https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4083997


----------



## Mazikeen

Transformation2021 said:


> You and me both for Jacono. Better go soon because his prices are NOT going to come down. In 2020 it is US$75,000 converted it is 55,983.43GBP then you have factor in 14 days stay in NYC


Careful with Jacono.  Lots of negative reviews. For that kind of money I would demand to see a minimum of 10 past patients IRL and see the results. I noticed that most of his +ve reviews on RS and google have no pics, just glowing reviews which sound like ads.


----------



## Transformation2021

Mazikeen said:


> Careful with Jacono.  Lots of negative reviews. For that kind of money I would demand to see a minimum of 10 past patients IRL and see the results. I noticed that most of his +ve reviews on RS and google have no pics, just glowing reviews which sound like ads.


You're wrong he has several hundred patients on Insta. He has been doing this for over 20 years, I've been following him for that long, trying to save up my pennies. He lectures and written several books and put the b&a of the patients in the book as examples. Plastic Surgeons from all over the world come to learn from him and he's willing to share his techniques at conferences (unlike some others). The only other doctor who comes close is Dominic Bray in London who is just as expensive but not even close to Jacono's miracles (that's what I call them)


----------



## seoulsister

@Mazikeen
Thanks Mazikeen. Only had the briefest of looks but not only what you're saying is spot on but also looks like some suspicious activities as well.
Careful with Jacono.  Lots of negative reviews. For that kind of money I would demand to see a minimum of 10 past patients IRL and see the results. I noticed that most of his +ve reviews on RS and google have no pics, just glowing reviews which sound like ads.


----------



## Mazikeen

Transformation2021 said:


> You're wrong he has several hundred patients on Insta. He has been doing this for over 20 years, I've been following him for that long, trying to save up my pennies. He lectures and written several books and put the b&a of the patients in the book as examples. Plastic Surgeons from all over the world come to learn from him and he's willing to share his techniques at conferences (unlike some others). The only other doctor who comes close is Dominic Bray in London who is just as expensive but not even close to Jacono's miracles (that's what I call them)


Ok but please check out some patients f2f to see how the results look like, don't rely on the insta results.  Many surgeons are posting fake results using photoshop and filter on insta to lure patients. Turkish clinics are notorious for this and some patients have ended up in ICU after botched surgeries.  Just google Dr. Andrew Jacono reviews you'll see the negative reviews on realself with pictures.


----------



## Mazikeen

seoulsister said:


> @Mazikeen
> Thanks Mazikeen. Only had the briefest of looks but not only what you're saying is spot on but also looks like some suspicious activities as well.
> Careful with Jacono.  Lots of negative reviews. For that kind of money I would demand to see a minimum of 10 past patients IRL and see the results. I noticed that most of his +ve reviews on RS and google have no pics, just glowing reviews which sound like ads.


IKR? If insta models with their limited budgets can dupe people with perfectly photoshopped videos & pics imagine what a surgeon or clinic with deep pockets can achieve?


----------



## seoulsister

@Mazikeen 
Again have to agree with you lol. I *always *ignore IA. Pure pants. From RS (maybe a troll distorting everything but coupled with a quick look, just doesn't look good to me- count me out) paying over the odds doesn't mean anything :


----------



## seoulsister

Like you said the Golden Rule is to meet ex patients IRL over a year since they have had FL preferably 7 lol. Thanks for reminding us best to you


----------



## Mazikeen

seoulsister said:


> @Mazikeen
> Again have to agree with you lol. I *always *ignore IA. Pure pants. From RS (maybe a troll distorting everything but coupled with a quick look, just doesn't look good to me- count me out) paying over the odds doesn't mean anything :


lmao you are so right.  The -ve reviews are buried so deep you have to read through all the 400+ glowing reviews on RS to get to them.


----------



## seoulsister

at least not sending threatening personal messages (taking legal action) if unfavorable reviews are published like some docs do?!just upload 400 fake reviews. Nice one


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> You and me both for Jacono. Better go soon because his prices are NOT going to come down. In 2020 it is US$75,000 converted it is 55,983.43GBP then you have factor in 14 days stay in NYC


@Transformation2021 OMG! $75,000 for a facelift! No way! I feel for the ladies who left negative reviews on realself on Jacono. Scared me off. I am leaning towards Paul Tulley in the U.K. or go to Korea when I am 60.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> @Mazikeen
> Again have to agree with you lol. I *always *ignore IA. Pure pants. From RS (maybe a troll distorting everything but coupled with a quick look, just doesn't look good to me- count me out) paying over the odds doesn't mean anything :


Yep. @seoulsister and @Mazikeen the deep plane facelift can alter one’s face dramatically and if it goes horribly wrong and makes one look like a lizard or the skin is pulled in the wrong angle, well that’s that, irreversible disaster. There is no reversing a facelift after the skin has been trimmed too much and smas layers trimmed and sutured tight. I am thinking the best results seem to be in ladies who have severe facial skin sagging with numerous wrinkles. If one does it too early, there may not be much skin and smas to tighten so this could end up making the face too windswept and unnatural aka Madonna or the surgeon may just do a token skin excision and omit the smas muscle layer, which may only last 6 months as skin, loosened and then pulled tight during surgery, tends to just stretch over time and within 6 months may look like before surgery again. Choosing the right plastic surgeon for a facelift can be a minefield. Dr Kirk at Namu, the head surgeon at ASPS, and Dr Dongman Park at Bio plastic surgery clinic seem to have good facelift results. There is a big difference between 9-12 million won ie $9-11k for a facelift in Korea vs $75,000 for a facelift in NYC vs £15,000 or $22,000 for a facelift in the U.K. Facial fat grafting for volume at 2.5 million won or $2,000 plus a top up for 1 million won or $800 is much more affordable and the option I have gone with to stay looking young in my 50s. No doubt when I hit 60, I may feel desperate for a facelift.


----------



## Mazikeen

MissOrange said:


> Yep. @seoulsister and @Mazikeen the deep plane facelift can alter one’s face dramatically and if it goes horribly wrong and makes one look like a lizard or the skin is pulled in the wrong angle, well that’s that, irreversible disaster. There is no reversing a facelift after the skin has been trimmed too much and smas layers trimmed and sutured tight. I am thinking the best results seem to be in ladies who have severe facial skin sagging with numerous wrinkles. If one does it too early, there may not be much skin and smas to tighten so this could end up making the face too windswept and unnatural aka Madonna or the surgeon may just do a token skin excision and omit the smas muscle layer, which may only last 6 months as skin, loosened and then pulled tight during surgery, tends to just stretch over time and within 6 months may look like before surgery again. Choosing the right plastic surgeon for a facelift can be a minefield. Dr Kirk at Namu, the head surgeon at ASPS, and Dr Dongman Park at Bio plastic surgery clinic seem to have good facelift results. There is a big difference between 9-12 million won ie $9-11k for a facelift in Korea vs $75,000 for a facelift in NYC vs £15,000 or $22,000 for a facelift in the U.K. Facial fat grafting for volume at 2.5 million won or $2,000 plus a top up for 1 million won or $800 is much more affordable and the option I have gone with to stay looking young in my 50s. No doubt when I hit 60, I may feel desperate for a facelift.


I clutched my imaginary pearls too when I saw the price.  These NY surgeons are out of control with their prices and their results are mostly subpar.  I was quoted $15,000 for rhinoplasty with silicone implant which costs $5000-$6000 in Seoul and the results in Seoul were much better.  A patient of Jacono posted her FL scars and they're horrendous, it's mind boggling how he justifies the price.


----------



## MissOrange

Mazikeen said:


> I clutched my imaginary pearls too when I saw the price.  These NY surgeons are out of control with their prices and their results are mostly subpar.  I was quoted $15,000 for rhinoplasty with silicone implant which costs $5000-$6000 in Seoul and the results in Seoul were much better.  A patient of Jacono posted her FL scars and they're horrendous, it's mind boggling how he justifies the price.


@Mazikeen, wow $15k for a silicone rhino! During the off peak seasons at MVP, Dr Seo used to charge 3 mill won or less than $3k for silicone rhino! I would never fly to the US for plastic surgery. Simply cannot afford their extortionate prices. The best at suturing have to be Korean surgeons. I can’t even see my upper lip scar from the vermilion lip lift but can see my bullhorn lip lift scar done in the U.K. and needed steroid injection when the scar hypertrophied. I suspect a lot of keloid or hypertrophic scarring in Asians may be from the way British or American surgeons suture. Koreans truly are the masters when it comes to embroidery. You are making me want to fly to Korea for my smas facelift! I am waiting to find someone who does invisible facelift! Lol, ie no scars! Maybe I should also get scar revision for my periareolar and submammary visible U.K. scars in Korea when I get a facelift. I remember Dr Lee at ASPS did a good job on the 52 yo Asian American tpfer October 2018 but we never got an update a year later to see if it lasted.


----------



## MissOrange

I am now 4.5 months post one round of breast FT and I must say this is the way to go...as big as implants without the health risk. Here is a bikini photo from the summer of 2019 6 months after explant vs this month at 4.5 months post FT. My chest size has gone up from 32 inches or 81 cms to 34 inches or 86.3 cms  with one round of 145/175 ccs, and my harvested thighs remain a skinny 18 inches. Prices are even cheaper at the Highgate Hospital where David Floyd also operates, ie below £4300 so this works out to cheaper than implants!


----------



## Phoenix123

Incredible, @MissOrange!  How are the upper poles doing?


----------



## MissOrange

Phoenix123 said:


> Incredible, @MissOrange!  How are the upper poles doing?


Hi @Phoenix123 they are fine. FT gives you a natural look so the upper poles do not look like implants sitting on a chest but normal breasts. David has put his surgeries on hold during lockdown 3. It really does feel like an island here. Can’t fly out. This lockdown will be a long one, either released in April or even the summer!


----------



## Starry Eyes

Hi again Miss Orange! 

I just caught up about 50 pages from where I last left off this forum in 2019.

SOOOO glad you never got the Zygoma surgery, or went through with the FT at Fresh. Dr Hong was always on my wishlist but after reading your account, I’ll never go to him unless he hires an anaesthetist either. thank you so much for opening all of our eyes to that! I am jealous of your amazing results and happy for you!

the last time I posted, I was on a mission to meet the big 40 looking the best version of myself and I think I succeeded. With hifu, fillers and lasers I was happy with how I looked when the date passed and was fit and trim.

Then covid happened and the world went into lockdown. In 3 months I gained 7-8 lbs from a combination of sedentary life and depression. My anxiety, eczema and bruxism went into overdrive and once the clinics opened for non essential services, I got dysport to ease it. I’d done it before a few years ago for the same reason so thought it would be no different.

I was wrong!!! Somehow despite going to a very established doctor, it completely messed up my smile. My upper cheeks and upper lip could not lift and imagine having a semi paralysed lower face.. I couldn’t even open my mouth enough to eat foods of a certain size let alone laugh naturally. Thankfully face masks were mandatory! Keeping them on everywhere was truly a big relief. 

Thank god that nightmare wore off after 2 + months of massage and facial exercises, now my smile is back to normal. I will never put it at such risk again. Looking into options to reduce the bruxism naturally now.

As for the weight gain, I managed to lose half of it by working out again but am now conflicted on losing the rest. The reason is what you’ve been telling us, that the face looks more youthful with extra weight. Most of my body look better too, but the stomach is huge. Can most areas looking better justify 1 area looking awful? 

And so I booked 2 consults for liposuction. The irony is that I still get rejected for breast fat transfer! Makes me all the more jealous of your result. I was told I need to gain at least 10 lbs more and I don’t want to take the risk of going through so much for a small result. The photos I was shown that could be similar to what I should expect didn’t impress me very much. 

But I suspect if I gain another 2-3 lbs for optimum and natural curves before the lipo, the contrast of a flatter smaller stomach against fuller curves could look good enough. I’m encouraged by what you say about the fat not going back to your stomach but to your breasts and butt.

Anyway, was hoping you could advise on what helps the recovery process for abdominal lipo, having done it twice. I’m leaning towards Vaser which is supposed to be gentler, but still hesitant as I have fears about going under GA for the first time as I am sensitive..  most anti congestants still cause drowsiness (but both shortlisted surgeons do employ separate anesthesiologists) 

I’m also worried whether compression garments will trigger my chronic dermatitis as they need to be worn 24/7 for the initial weeks. 

Look forward to your advice, thanks in advance!


----------



## LostClock

Hello guys! I actually joined this forum because I liked this thread so much (as well as this board in general). Thank you so much MissOrange for taking the time to help out so many people! You already know this but your results are fantastic, too 

I'm in my mid-20's but I already have some fine lines around my eyes, on my forehead, and in the laugh line area. I try to take good care of my skin on a daily basis (sunscreen, vitamin C, Tretinoin, etc.) but I feel like my skin should be a bit better at this point.

I'd like to work on this because 1) even if maybe other people don't notice it, I do and I need to be careful with not having my sunscreen/powder settle into my fine lines 2) I feel like it'll be better in the future if I put in effort now rather than wait for it to get bad. At this point I don't think that they necessarily age me.

So, I'm wondering, what would be a good choice for me? I live in Japan so some of the treatments available to me may be different from some of you guys (unfortunately it's very difficult to find discussions on Japanese sites about this, I've noticed in general Japanese people in general don't contribute to online discussions or even ratings for things like this as much but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places). Some clinics here have shots that are supposed to promote collagen production but it's hard to find research on them which makes me wary. I know Japanese so that's not a barrier. It's common for larger procedures for Japanese women to go to Korea instead but of course that's not an option at the moment.

I'm wondering if it'll come down to lasers or Botox? TBH there are other procedures that I am considering + I don't have unlimited funds so cost is a factor for me. I also have some slight hyperpigmentation from acne (which I was considering getting chemical peels for) but in that case maybe laser is the way to go... Thoughts?

(I don't have much experience with cosmetic procedures outside of a short trial of under eye fillers which are gone now, CoolSculpting for the under chin, and the most shallow setting of HIFU but I'll try my best to contribute too!)


----------



## MissOrange

Starry Eyes said:


> Hi again Miss Orange!
> 
> I just caught up about 50 pages from where I last left off this forum in 2019.
> 
> SOOOO glad you never got the Zygoma surgery, or went through with the FT at Fresh. Dr Hong was always on my wishlist but after reading your account, I’ll never go to him unless he hires an anaesthetist either. thank you so much for opening all of our eyes to that! I am jealous of your amazing results and happy for you!
> 
> the last time I posted, I was on a mission to meet the big 40 looking the best version of myself and I think I succeeded. With hifu, fillers and lasers I was happy with how I looked when the date passed and was fit and trim.
> 
> Then covid happened and the world went into lockdown. In 3 months I gained 7-8 lbs from a combination of sedentary life and depression. My anxiety, eczema and bruxism went into overdrive and once the clinics opened for non essential services, I got dysport to ease it. I’d done it before a few years ago for the same reason so thought it would be no different.
> 
> I was wrong!!! Somehow despite going to a very established doctor, it completely messed up my smile. My upper cheeks and upper lip could not lift and imagine having a semi paralysed lower face.. I couldn’t even open my mouth enough to eat foods of a certain size let alone laugh naturally. Thankfully face masks were mandatory! Keeping them on everywhere was truly a big relief.
> 
> Thank god that nightmare wore off after 2 + months of massage and facial exercises, now my smile is back to normal. I will never put it at such risk again. Looking into options to reduce the bruxism naturally now.
> 
> As for the weight gain, I managed to lose half of it by working out again but am now conflicted on losing the rest. The reason is what you’ve been telling us, that the face looks more youthful with extra weight. Most of my body look better too, but the stomach is huge. Can most areas looking better justify 1 area looking awful?
> 
> And so I booked 2 consults for liposuction. The irony is that I still get rejected for breast fat transfer! Makes me all the more jealous of your result. I was told I need to gain at least 10 lbs more and I don’t want to take the risk of going through so much for a small result. The photos I was shown that could be similar to what I should expect didn’t impress me very much.
> 
> But I suspect if I gain another 2-3 lbs for optimum and natural curves before the lipo, the contrast of a flatter smaller stomach against fuller curves could look good enough. I’m encouraged by what you say about the fat not going back to your stomach but to your breasts and butt.
> 
> Anyway, was hoping you could advise on what helps the recovery process for abdominal lipo, having done it twice. I’m leaning towards Vaser which is supposed to be gentler, but still hesitant as I have fears about going under GA for the first time as I am sensitive..  most anti congestants still cause drowsiness (but both shortlisted surgeons do employ separate anesthesiologists)
> 
> I’m also worried whether compression garments will trigger my chronic dermatitis as they need to be worn 24/7 for the initial weeks.
> 
> Look forward to your advice, thanks in advance!


Hi @Starry Eyes! Noooo to dysport. This form of Botox is known for migrating. Xeomin Botox is better as it stays put where it is injected.

I can totally relate to the weight gain during lockdown and how added fat makes the face look younger but at the expense of a tummy and losing a waist line. I hit a whopping 104 and am now 103.4 lbs. Can’t believe that a year ago in Korea I weighed 95/96 lbs as I enjoyed the walking exercise in Gangnam and eating healthy Korean dishes. In the U.K. we can even order KFC and McDonald’s on a just eat app and delivery is either 50 p for kfc or free for Mcdonalds. I can even order Wagamama for 60 p delivery! That’s less than petrol when not in lockdown. I have bought sugar free chewing gum as I remember my sharp jawline in my 40s was most likely due to chewing gum!

Nooo to Vaser lipo! Your tummy will be filled with tumescent fluid that takes months to reabsorb! I had that for my second abdo lipo and hated it. I loved my first lipo which was traditional lipo with no tumescent fluid or ultrasound. That gave immediate results with a 6 pack.


----------



## MissOrange

LostClock said:


> Hello guys! I actually joined this forum because I liked this thread so much (as well as this board in general). Thank you so much MissOrange for taking the time to help out so many people! You already know this but your results are fantastic, too
> 
> I'm in my mid-20's but I already have some fine lines around my eyes, on my forehead, and in the laugh line area. I try to take good care of my skin on a daily basis (sunscreen, vitamin C, Tretinoin, etc.) but I feel like my skin should be a bit better at this point.
> 
> I'd like to work on this because 1) even if maybe other people don't notice it, I do and I need to be careful with not having my sunscreen/powder settle into my fine lines 2) I feel like it'll be better in the future if I put in effort now rather than wait for it to get bad. At this point I don't think that they necessarily age me.
> 
> So, I'm wondering, what would be a good choice for me? I live in Japan so some of the treatments available to me may be different from some of you guys (unfortunately it's very difficult to find discussions on Japanese sites about this, I've noticed in general Japanese people in general don't contribute to online discussions or even ratings for things like this as much but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places). Some clinics here have shots that are supposed to promote collagen production but it's hard to find research on them which makes me wary. I know Japanese so that's not a barrier. It's common for larger procedures for Japanese women to go to Korea instead but of course that's not an option at the moment.
> 
> I'm wondering if it'll come down to lasers or Botox? TBH there are other procedures that I am considering + I don't have unlimited funds so cost is a factor for me. I also have some slight hyperpigmentation from acne (which I was considering getting chemical peels for) but in that case maybe laser is the way to go... Thoughts?
> 
> (I don't have much experience with cosmetic procedures outside of a short trial of under eye fillers which are gone now, CoolSculpting for the under chin, and the most shallow setting of HIFU but I'll try my best to contribute too!)


Welcome @LostClock! Wow flattered you joined because of my thread! You can also find me on Facebook where I chat daily on everything in my private FB.

Okay for fine lines in your mid 20s, yes it can be sorted but do NOT do laser! OMG! Nooooooo. I tried laser for the first time to my periareolar scars and almost lost my right nipple! I will never ever ever do laser again in my entire lifetime! Try either a TCA chemical peel or xeomin Botox. As for the hyperpigmentation, the chemical peel will work or you can buy a small bottle of glycolic acid on eBay and apply yourself. I have tried potato (has natural acid in it) and glycolic acid for my sun spots on my cheeks and back of hands which have faded remarkably.

Btw how come you speak Japanese? Are you Japanese? I love Japanese and Korean films and dramas. In lockdown 3 I am watching a record number of Netflix dramas and am stuck in Empress Ki at the moment. Thank goodness it has 51 episodes! If you can recommend a Japanese film or drama would love to watch too.


----------



## MissOrange

Today’s post is on hair and makeup. I found a free face app literally called face app which adds makeup, glasses, styles your hair, and colours it for free! So I took a selfie and clicked makeup and black hair. I still prefer blonde hair though. Lol. It also has a gender swap feature and an ageing feature where you can see yourself as a child, teen, young or old person! OMG the old person looks like what a normal 55 should look like but if I looked like that I would be so sad. I know you want to see. Okay it is the third photo. Interestingly wearing glasses makes my cheeks look less prominent. No wonder I prefer to wear glasses to give me a smaller face. I don’t need to go to the hair salon, as the app even gives me a lovely long hair blow-dried look! I just clicked long hair! So before you think of plastic surgery, try a change of hair and full makeup first.


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## AnnMelon

I love this! Thank you! I'd like to add that I used to have a very long philtrum. I'm 28 and for the past 8 years I've just been pushing my upper lift up with my finger. Its a mindless habit now and my philtrum is a lot shorter. I think if you already have a short philtrum, this might help prevent it from sagging.


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## LostClock

MissOrange said:


> Welcome @LostClock! Wow flattered you joined because of my thread! You can also find me on Facebook where I chat daily on everything in my private FB.
> 
> Okay for fine lines in your mid 20s, yes it can be sorted but do NOT do laser! OMG! Nooooooo. I tried laser for the first time to my periareolar scars and almost lost my right nipple! I will never ever ever do laser again in my entire lifetime! Try either a TCA chemical peel or xeomin Botox. As for the hyperpigmentation, the chemical peel will work or you can buy a small bottle of glycolic acid on eBay and apply yourself. I have tried potato (has natural acid in it) and glycolic acid for my sun spots on my cheeks and back of hands which have faded remarkably.
> 
> Btw how come you speak Japanese? Are you Japanese? I love Japanese and Korean films and dramas. In lockdown 3 I am watching a record number of Netflix dramas and am stuck in Empress Ki at the moment. Thank goodness it has 51 episodes! If you can recommend a Japanese film or drama would love to watch too.



Thank you for the advice! I'll have to think about FB, I'm kind of shy 

When I first made my comment I was about half-way through this thread but after finishing everything and doing more research I've decided against lasers. Thank you for the advice! Once things calm down a bit I'm planning on getting Botox for my crows feet. I might get a chemical peel in the mean time... 

I learned Japanese by myself! (well I took a few classes too). I'm starting to get into Japanese and Korean dramas more recently. Actually, I just finished My ID is Gangnam Beauty recently which I saw you talking about! Hmm I'll definitely let you know if I think of anything, I'm still a newbie tbh. I feel like there's more Kdramas than Jdrams on Netflix?

Also, does anyone else like to use the app Meitu to reshape your face? It'll automatically detect your facial features and you can play around with them or use the slim tool to push things around (like liquify). It's fun but I have to make sure not to use it for too long


----------



## MissOrange

LostClock said:


> Thank you for the advice! I'll have to think about FB, I'm kind of shy
> 
> When I first made my comment I was about half-way through this thread but after finishing everything and doing more research I've decided against lasers. Thank you for the advice! Once things calm down a bit I'm planning on getting Botox for my crows feet. I might get a chemical peel in the mean time...
> 
> I learned Japanese by myself! (well I took a few classes too). I'm starting to get into Japanese and Korean dramas more recently. Actually, I just finished My ID is Gangnam Beauty recently which I saw you talking about! Hmm I'll definitely let you know if I think of anything, I'm still a newbie tbh. I feel like there's more Kdramas than Jdrams on Netflix?
> 
> Also, does anyone else like to use the app Meitu to reshape your face? It'll automatically detect your facial features and you can play around with them or use the slim tool to push things around (like liquify). It's fun but I have to make sure not to use it for too long


Wow @LostClock that's amazing you taught yourself Japanese. Yes Netflix is heavy on the KDs rather than JDs. Glad you are not getting laser treatment on your face.

I shall look up Meitu. Thank you for the tip.


----------



## alicia K

MissOrange said:


> HI @SweetPotato1996 yes a long philtrum may make you look older and masculine. Draw lipstick above your upper lip and fill in with red lipstick and then take a picture. It gives you an idea of what philtrum reduction may look like and also how many mms you want the philtrum reduced. The ideal length for a girl is 11-13 mms. In that case it sounds like get the philtrum done first as it is the easiest operation, done under local anaesthesia and takes 30-60 mins but make sure they do not cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The results are immediate. My philtrum is now 12 mms at 1 year postop. It was 11 mms after the operation. At this rate it may mean another philtrum reduction when I am 60!


Hi! Did you experience any nose distortion ? How are the scars ? I'm 18 and am afraid of these two issues. Would you mind telling us what doc did your Lip lift ?


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## babykyoong

MissOrange said:


> I went back to Seoul last month for free eyelid fat graft top up with MVP clinic as my eyelids started to hollow a little and top up was included in the original 3 million price back in May 2016. Here is what I look like less than 2 weeks post top up. This time Dr Seo took fat from my tummy through my belly button. The white cream is hydrocortisone 1% which seems to help with my raised bullhorn scar.


What should I do to prevent lump from happening after FG ?


----------



## MissOrange

alicia K said:


> Hi! Did you experience any nose distortion ? How are the scars ? I'm 18 and am afraid of these two issues. Would you mind telling us what doc did your Lip lift ?


Hi Alicia K, I had steroid injection to the bullhorn scar 1 year after the lip lift. Had it done by Miss Caroline Mills on Wimpole Street. She kindly injected at my 1 year postop. I had no nose distortion as I asked not to cut into the nasal sill.


----------



## MissOrange

babykyoong said:


> What should I do to prevent lump from happening after FG ?


Hi @babykyoong, some people do massage post FG to prevent lumps. I think it depends on the surgeon’s technique.


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## MissOrange

I am over 6 months post one time breast fat transfer for £5,648 and have retained 100% (see my attached b&a). They now look perfect except... I am now looking into intralesional steroid injection as I have redeveloped hypertrophic scarring after surgery for the periareolar laser burn. I have a follow up appointment next week so hoping to get this done.

I have also been researching facelifts. Looks like there is a difference between smas facelift and deep plane facelift! Dr Jacono explains it as smas peels the skin off the face to then stitch up the smas layer vs deep plane does not pull the skin away from the smas. Am following a Londoner on Instagram who had her deep plane FL 10 days ago with Dr Bray and is posting videos daily! This is the best way to look at her before face in action vs after. However the prices are unaffordable for most ladies. Dr Jacono charges $120,000 and Dr Bray up to £26,000 for his clinic based deep plane face and neck lift. Traditional smas is cheaper at £14,000 with other surgeons. Cheaper still is Korea which charges between $9000 and $12,000 for a smas FL. Cheapest is Dr Oelbrandt in Belgium who charges €3-4K for a smas facelift. I have messaged Dr Dongmin Park to ask how much his deep extended smas facelift costs. I wonder if this is the same as deep plane?

I then looked at my face and in my 40s it was taut because I love sugar free chewing gum! I was doing my own facial jaw yoga! However this did not address the hollowing in my temples and upper lids which is where fat transfer comes in. I am now over 3 years post full face FT and top up 14 months ago. I am also back to chewing chewing gum after meals. I put together a comparison of me vs a Bray lady who is also 54. I would say the cheapest way to get a tight lower jaw is daily chewing gum or being a chatterbox! The next cheapest way is threadlift but this lasts 6 months to a year. Then comes fat transfer for $2k. I think this lasts as long as you keep your weight above the weight it was on the day of your surgery. I was not aware of this but luckily I weighed 95 lbs when I had my facial FT top up so it is easy to keep my weight above this, especially during lockdown.

The lip lift from 4 years ago which involved lifting the muscle layer too is still lasting so this is like getting a smas for the lips! Aargh I just spotted the sun spots. I need to do a glycolic acid treatment and dye my roots with L’Oréal Excellence light ash blonde 9.1.


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## seoulsister

Dear Miss Orange,

I have not researched FL too much but I think Korean docs are better at Fgs and probably head to Seoul for FL on that basis.lol. They could really maximize FLs and they know Asian faces which are significanty different from Western faces. Could be wrong.


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## seoulsister

Miss Orange,
Please can I get your opinion on liposuction from a medical point of view and not an aesthetic view. It has been widely reported having a too large waistline is bad for health but if one has liposuction in that area, does one have the same health benefits from surgical intervention as a person who has not had surgery who has a slim waistline? Thanks


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## mirryne

interesting!!


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## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> Miss Orange,
> Please can I get your opinion on liposuction from a medical point of view and not an aesthetic view. It has been widely reported having a too large waistline is bad for health but if one has liposuction in that area, does one have the same health benefits from surgical intervention as a person who has not had surgery who has a slim waistline? Thanks


Good question @seoulsister. Central obesity or the apple shape is associated with more fat around the internal organs too. By losing weight, the internal organ fat and external waistline go down. Lipo would address the external waistline but mask the fat around the organs as one would be misled into thinking one had lost weight when actually fat may still persist inside.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> Dear Miss Orange,
> 
> I have not researched FL too much but I think Korean docs are better at Fgs and probably head to Seoul for FL on that basis.lol. They could really maximize FLs and they know Asian faces which are significanty different from Western faces. Could be wrong.


Good point @seoulsister. Not only do Korean FL surgeons know Asian facial beauty but they also embroider extremely well. Yesterday I had steroid injections to my periareolar surgical scars in London. Whereas my lip has no scar from a Korean plastic surgeon who used the finest sutures. He probably wore a magnifying loop as the thread was almost invisible. In my opinion Asian skin is more likely to pigment or tend to develop hypertrophic scars if operated on in the West and more likely to be invisible if operated on in Korea. Asian patients insist on no scars so Asian surgeons are more meticulous with their stitchwork in my opinion.


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## seoulsister

Thanks Miss Orange


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## MissOrange

I am researching facelifts and came across the most incredible results! I am gobsmacked at how a 70 year old can look super young now! And a 60 yo too (second set of b&a). I need to fly to San Diego but alas I doubt I can afford California surgery prices. This means ladies can look 30s at age 70!!! But how would a 30 yo man feel or think if he suddenly found out his date was actually 70?! I learned the hard way sitting next to a guy in his late 20s/early 30s on an aeroplane. I should never have revealed my true age. His face changed and he looked at me like I was a freak and stopped talking to me. Ouch. So if you do end up looking a lot younger, never ever ever reveal your true age.


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## MissOrange

I noticed my lower face was sagging slightly so I sent my photos to Dr Dominic Bray, Dr Dongman Park and Dr Paul Tulley and all confirmed I needed a facelift. The prices quoted ranged from £25k (Bray for deep plane face and neck lift), $15-20k (Park for extended dual plane FL) and £8-9k (Tulley for short scar smas FL).

I was surprised that the assessments with the same photos ranged from requiring full face and neck lift all the way down to mini facelift that it made me question whether I needed a FL.

I then studied b&a photos of FLs on doctor websites and noticed that the dimensions of the faces changed with FLs. As we age we know the lower jawbone shrinks. After a FL, the length of the face may appear shorter and the cheeks wider as it now emphasizes a smaller jawbone but not as much a smaller zygoma. The golden ratio is changed. This means for some ladies it may make them look less attractive post FL if by shortening the length of the face and widening the cheek area, the proportions are further off the golden ratio.

I then recalled my F2F consult with a plastic surgeon where I showed him 2 photos of me, one with sagging lower skin and one without. He asked me had a lost weight in the one without. I said no, I had gained weight.

As we age we lose facial fat volume. I then realised that my lower face had deflated again because I had lost 3 lbs in weight in less than a month recently! Sudden weight loss can deflate a face especially post menopause! In fact mature ladies may need to adjust their ideal weight to one above their wedding day weight to compensate for the loss of facial fat with aging!

So I have started eating more again and my face is back to normal. No need for a FL.

I found this photo of 51 yo JLO and do not know if it is real or if her IG photos are photoshopped to make her look better than this photo but it clearly shows how we lose facial fat from our forehead and lower face as we age.


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## Tremere

Who are the most famous US surgeons for face lifts? 

Also, there aren't any European surgeons famous for they face lifts? 

And in Korea? 

@MissOrange what do you think of canthoplasty/cantopexy as surgeries? Are they worth it? (I'm Caucasian)


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## Piikaa

Hello miss orange, thank you so much for sharing all this info! One of the reasons I joined purseblog ☺️ its very refreshing to read first hand experiences and you are full of surgery knowledge! 
You state that when you age the lower jaw bone shrinks. I'm not happy with my square jaw and forward pointing chin and I'm planning to visit south Korea for v line surgery. 
I'm almost 29 now, should I worry about shrinking to much jaw bone in the future? 
( I only want natural results, so no very aggressive jaw cutting)


----------



## dinoca

Piikaa said:


> Hello miss orange, thank you so much for sharing all this info! One of the reasons I joined purseblog ☺ its very refreshing to read first hand experiences and you are full of surgery knowledge!
> You state that when you age the lower jaw bone shrinks. I'm not happy with my square jaw and forward pointing chin and I'm planning to visit south Korea for v line surgery.
> I'm almost 29 now, should I worry about shrinking to much jaw bone in the future?
> ( I only want natural results, so no very aggressive jaw cutting)


Youre on the same boat as me


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## Dilya

Good time of the day dear MissOrange! I am ready to do bullhorn liplift. I remember you have performed the 1st in Seoul and second was done in GB, you were quite satisfied with your second liplift. According to my research there are 3 types of this surgery. Which one have you used??? 
This is what written on the most popular method: 
'The most common procedure is the bullhorn lip lift, also called a subnasal lip lift, which involves removing the skin just below and to the sides of the nostrils.' -- Have you used this method???
How long is approximately the upper lip is motionless? As much as I understood from this site this type of surgery is not very much performed in South Korea? (I am trying to plan/use logistics of doing the surgery in SK together with DES revision, facial fatgrafting or better doing this type surgery before my trip to SK here in Florida, US). 
Please advise.


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## Lien

I am ready to do a lip lift too.  I saw these pics on this Dr's IG; and thought this would be perfect for me.  I have the same issues that this patient had, ie. downward turning lip corners and a slightly saggy jaw.  I'd love to hear your opinions, @MissOrange .


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## MissOrange

Lien said:


> I am ready to do a lip lift too.  I saw these pics on this Dr's IG; and thought this would be perfect for me.  I have the same issues that this patient had, ie. downward turning lip corners and a slightly saggy jaw.  I'd love to hear your opinions, @MissOrange .
> 
> View attachment 5058749
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5058750
> 
> 
> View attachment 5058752
> 
> 
> View attachment 5058753


Looks good @Lien but remember to find his past patients and try to chat with them. Looks like the lady has had a face and neck lift too. Photos on IG may be photoshopped so for best due diligence find a real patient. Have you looked up Dr Mascaro in Florida? Not only did he do a good bullhorn lip lift but corrected the Cupid’s bow asymmetry in the upper lip by extending the incision line around the nose and carefully suturing to create symmetry for a U.K. friend of mine. I was left with upper lip asymmetry after a vermillion lip lift in Korea and the asymmetry was not corrected during my bullhorn lip lift in the U.K.


----------



## MissOrange

Piikaa said:


> Hello miss orange, thank you so much for sharing all this info! One of the reasons I joined purseblog ☺ its very refreshing to read first hand experiences and you are full of surgery knowledge!
> You state that when you age the lower jaw bone shrinks. I'm not happy with my square jaw and forward pointing chin and I'm planning to visit south Korea for v line surgery.
> I'm almost 29 now, should I worry about shrinking to much jaw bone in the future?
> ( I only want natural results, so no very aggressive jaw cutting)


Hi @Piikaa, welcome to the PF. I have yet to find a lady in her 50s/60s who has had v line in Korea in her 20s to see how little jawbone is left. I guess we have to wait another decade for young ladies who had v line 20 years ago to age. It is a fact that jawbones shrink and most markedly by one’s 70s but it starts in one’s 50s. Also my research shows that the majority of people who get zygoma reduction or v lines, end up needing lower skin lifting. So you have to budget for double the price, ie for the bone contouring operation and then the annual threadlifts or facelifts every 5-10 years.


----------



## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> Who are the most famous US surgeons for face lifts?
> 
> Also, there aren't any European surgeons famous for they face lifts?
> 
> And in Korea?
> 
> @MissOrange what do you think of canthoplasty/cantopexy as surgeries? Are they worth it? (I'm Caucasian)


Hi @Tremere, I have only found Dr Jacono on IG, a NYC facelift surgeon that one of the doctors on Botched went to for his facelift but few can afford the $120k price tag for a procedure that lasts 10 years. In the U.K. there is Dr Kremer who does a vertical facelift and is much more affordable. Dr Bray in the U.K. is the most expensive at £25k. Both share patient photos on IG. In Europe there is Dr Oelbrandt in Belgium who charges €4K. His work can be found on realself.

What I have learned is that the surgical scar for a full facelift by any surgeon is long!!! It extends from the temples, across the front of the ear and then goes behind the ear and up the scalp again! Some surgeons use staples and some suture. I think the best for suturing and not leaving a scar would be Korean surgeons. Dr Dongman Park of Bio Clinic is in Seoul as is Dr Lee at the asps clinic and the head of Namu clinic. All 3 Korean surgeons look like they have good facelift results. When it is my time, I think I will choose a Korean surgeon as I seem to get hypertrophic scars with U.K. surgeons and invisible skin scars with Korean surgeons. I am holding off as long as I can as once you have a facelift, your skin will have been peeled off your face and tissues detached and from then on you may require facelifts every decade. I am drinking water and eating more to add lower facial volume to lift the face as chin shaving has left my lower face slightly saggy as one would expect from removing some bony support.

A friend shared a great tip with me. To find photos of celebrities before their images are photoshopped, go to Getty images. Don’t rely on instagram.


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## Tremere

@MissOrange thank you so much. You really are full of knowledge. I will check out those surgeons.

I really need a V Line despite everything you've said, which I believe, BTW. Hopefully doing a DJS at the same time will help to offset some of the skin laxity issues.

I've seen that Dr. Mascaro also does face lifts, do you know if he is good at those?

Also, sorry if it's too personal of a question, but do you speak Korean? I'm afraid of going to Korea speaking only English and a bunch of other European languages, but zero Korean.


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## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> @MissOrange thank you so much. You really are full of knowledge. I will check out those surgeons.
> 
> I really need a V Line despite everything you've said, which I believe, BTW. Hopefully doing a DJS at the same time will help to offset some of the skin laxity issues.
> 
> I've seen that Dr. Mascaro also does face lifts, do you know if he is good at those?
> 
> Also, sorry if it's too personal of a question, but do you speak Korean? I'm afraid of going to Korea speaking only English and a bunch of other European languages, but zero Korean.


@Tremere double jaw surgery is a major operation. Are you sure you need it? Ask 10 friends or family and get second opinions from surgeons. The risks are high and there is no going back.

I speak little Korean so rely on translators and photo printouts to communicate.


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## glowup2021

MissOrange said:


> @Tremere double jaw surgery is a major operation. Are you sure you need it? Ask 10 friends or family and get second opinions from surgeons. The risks are high and there is no going back.
> 
> I speak little Korean so rely on translators and photo printouts to communicate.


Hey @MissOrange  I managed to read half way through this thread. I love your results and appreciate your knowledge on this subject. I am interested in plastic surgery to look better. I'm still young (in my 20s) but do care about anti-aging prevention as well.

I want to get ptosis correction, V-line surgery (Angular jaw correction + Genioplasty), facial fat grafting (stem cell), thread lift, and aegyosal dermal filler.

I can't decide between the following clinics: JK, Cinderella, Note. Cinderella looks very good but so does JK. There's not too much information on Note.

I know Vline can cause potential sagging in the future, I hope the threadlift and fat grafting can mitigate some of that. If you have any other ideas, please let me know.

Nana was an option but their V-line is way too sharp. I was also looking into ID and Banobagi but there are too many controversies surrounding them.  Your thoughts will be very helpful.


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## mlydzz

Hi MissOrange. It's been 4 years since your fat graft, can I ask if it has stayed put so far? Especially the one on your upper eyelid? I'm interested in dr seo for my fat graft now.. he has moved clinics now


----------



## MissOrange

glowup2021 said:


> Hey @MissOrange  I managed to read half way through this thread. I love your results and appreciate your knowledge on this subject. I am interested in plastic surgery to look better. I'm still young (in my 20s) but do care about anti-aging prevention as well.
> 
> I want to get ptosis correction, V-line surgery (Angular jaw correction + Genioplasty), facial fat grafting (stem cell), thread lift, and aegyosal dermal filler.
> 
> I can't decide between the following clinics: JK, Cinderella, Note. Cinderella looks very good but so does JK. There's not too much information on Note.
> 
> I know Vline can cause potential sagging in the future, I hope the threadlift and fat grafting can mitigate some of that. If you have any other ideas, please let me know.
> 
> Nana was an option but their V-line is way too sharp. I was also looking into ID and Banobagi but there are too many controversies surrounding them.  Your thoughts will be very helpful.


Hi @glowup2021 you are very young to want a complete facial overhaul. You have named 4 clinics that charge a lot and cater to foreigners. As I could not afford their quotes I went elsewhere. Try to find past patients from the clinics you are interested in.


----------



## MissOrange

mlydzz said:


> Hi MissOrange. It's been 4 years since your fat graft, can I ask if it has stayed put so far? Especially the one on your upper eyelid? I'm interested in dr seo for my fat graft now.. he has moved clinics now


Hi @mlydzz I love, love, love my upper eyelid fat graft. Yes it has lasted for years now. Here is a photo from this month. See how full my upper lids are. Yes he has moved from MVP to run his own clinic Machimpyo. Can't believe I turn 55 soon!


----------



## MissOrange

Dilya said:


> Good time of the day dear MissOrange! I am ready to do bullhorn liplift. I remember you have performed the 1st in Seoul and second was done in GB, you were quite satisfied with your second liplift. According to my research there are 3 types of this surgery. Which one have you used???
> This is what written on the most popular method:
> 'The most common procedure is the bullhorn lip lift, also called a subnasal lip lift, which involves removing the skin just below and to the sides of the nostrils.' -- Have you used this method???
> How long is approximately the upper lip is motionless? As much as I understood from this site this type of surgery is not very much performed in South Korea? (I am trying to plan/use logistics of doing the surgery in SK together with DES revision, facial fatgrafting or better doing this type surgery before my trip to SK here in Florida, US).
> Please advise.


Hi @Dilya,

I missed your post so apologies for the late reply. As you are in Florida go to Dr Mascaro for bullhorn lip lift which is subnasal (do not cut into the nasal sill) and may extend slightly around the nostrils to avoid a bunny mouth. He pays extra attention to achieving upper lip and philtrum symmetry too. A Brit Chinese friend had an excellent result. Can't believe she flew from the UK to Florida! Korean surgeons refuse to do bullhorn in my experience. They prefer vermillion lift.


----------



## MissOrange

Water does a body good and is better than a facial! I found someone else who has also discovered the rejuvenating properties of water...Fayfay Hsu! She drinks 350-500 mls of lukewarm water every morning for a decade. https://www.boredpanda.com/youthful...oogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

Like flowers that wilt without water, so do our faces, especially post menopause! Before any zoom meeting or date night, I drink 500-800 mls of water. My face then looks refreshed and skin glowing!


----------



## MissOrange

My biggest challenge will be my 60s. Today I found a natural anti ager, Linda Kelsey, 69 yo British journalist and former editor of Cosmopolitan mag who claims to have never had plastic surgery, not even botox to her face? What is her secret? She is 2 years younger than her sister Susan who has had multiple plastic surgery procedures.


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## glowup2021

MissOrange said:


> Hi @glowup2021 you are very young to want a complete facial overhaul. You have named 4 clinics that charge a lot and cater to foreigners. As I could not afford their quotes I went elsewhere. Try to find past patients from the clinics you are interested in.



I appreciate your response. I will only be getting double jaw surgery + Angular Jaw correction + Genioplasty (Vline) for now for functional and aesthetic reasons. Do you know of any specialists that are known for this?

JK is one I'm leaning towards because it seems like they have zero accidents and all their reviews are really positive. They give me a good feeling. I will try to find people who have had this surgery there. Cinderella on the other hand... tempting but all their models look photoshopped.


----------



## Dilya

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Dilya,
> 
> I missed your post so apologies for the late reply. As you are in Florida go to Dr Mascaro for bullhorn lip lift which is subnasal (do not cut into the nasal sill) and may extend slightly around the nostrils to avoid a bunny mouth. He pays extra attention to achieving upper lip and philtrum symmetry too. A Brit Chinese friend had an excellent result. Can't believe she flew from the UK to Florida! Korean surgeons refuse to do bullhorn in my experience. They prefer vermillion lift.




THANK YOU cordially for your response dear MissOrange - your expertise, knowledge and experience is irreplaceable in this forum!!! I very much would count on your advise on my next desiocion of this kind of surgery choices. I have reread your experiences many times while being at work and simply while trying to understand many things...

Though I read a lot that the result is so very subtle.. I would like to have a very drammatic change ))....
Thank you Dear MissOrange, God Bless You!


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## Dilya

Dear MissOrange, I have decided to ask you this thing without beating around the bush: I have read some reviews after liplift by one lady. Her biggest concern was motionless upper lip. For a married woman who has a mature hubby it's a big thing - their s*xual life has been interrupted for the time of healing - for more than two month her hubby did not have a chance to have bj... 

She was sharing it was the biggest frustration of her hubby... Therefore, I asked for how long the upper lip is motionless: I read reviews of no smiling, as if the upper lip is dead for more than two months... and then it drops and result become so subtle...

I am always postponing my decision on upper liplift due to this concern: motionless upper lip for more than 2 months - no private life ))

Sorry if my question was a bit too graphic here Ladies...


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## MissOrange

Hi @Dilya wow I don't know what to say. A few hours after my lip lift my OH dragged me out to a posh dinner party and I had to chat with people seated to my left and right. I never had any problems with a motionless upper lip. I wouldn't recommend going out the same evening as I oozed blood into my napkin. My upper lip has remained big for over 4 years and my philtrum length is still 11 mms. I would say go to Dr Mascaro Stateside or Mills in the UK. You can also join the FB group mentioned below 'Facelift info and support' as it also has lots of ladies who had lip lifts sharing their b+a's and all have no regrets.

I am researching FLs and have joined 2 private FL facebook groups (Facelift info and support, UK facelifts and other facial cosmetic procedures) where real patients post their b+a's without filters!


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## Rensera

Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us! I'm in my early 30s right now, but thanks to all your posts and advices it's so helpful to learn about the treatments and surgeries I might need in the next 10-20 years. Wish you all the best, you look amazing!


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## mlydzz

MissOrange said:


> Hi @mlydzz I love, love, love my upper eyelid fat graft. Yes it has lasted for years now. Here is a photo from this month. See how full my upper lids are. Yes he has moved from MVP to run his own clinic Machimpyo. Can't believe I turn 55 soon!


Thank you for the response. You only had one session on your upper eyelid right? You look wonderful!


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## Dilya

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Dilya wow I don't know what to say. A few hours after my lip lift my OH dragged me out to a posh dinner party and I had to chat with people seated to my left and right. I never had any problems with a motionless upper lip. I wouldn't recommend going out the same evening as I oozed blood into my napkin. My upper lip has remained big for over 4 years and my philtrum length is still 11 mms. I would say go to Dr Mascaro Stateside or Mills in the UK. You can also join the FB group mentioned below 'Facelift info and support' as it also has lots of ladies who had lip lifts sharing their b+a's and all have no regrets.
> 
> I am researching FLs and have joined 2 private FL facebook groups (Facelift info and support, UK facelifts and other facial cosmetic procedures) where real patients post their b+a's without filters!



Thank you cordially for your response dear MissOrange!!!
Your answers are always kind, informative and higly supportive! That is so very great you are answering and sharing your experiences with everyone who needs it here. You are beautiful and irreplaceable!


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## MissOrange

Dilya said:


> Thank you cordially for your response dear MissOrange!!!
> Your answers are always kind, informative and higly supportive! That is so very great you are answering and sharing your experiences with everyone who needs it here. You are beautiful and irreplaceable!


Hi @Dilya, hope this will spur you on to get bullhorn lip lift. I tried and tried to lift my upper lip to see my upper teeth but the philtrum skin was too long and redundant. See how I struggled to even smile. See the dramatic loss of facial volume that occurs shortly after menopause. Menopause with its dramatic drop in oestrogen wreak havoc on one's face and on the body may turn muscle into fat! Here is me at almost 55 looking 20s vs me at 49 before I started my quest to reverse the ravages of aging and look pretty again. It takes one seriously bad photo to realise you need to fix your face and this one did it for me. See how lip lift, eyelid fat graft, facial fat grafting, and rib rhino transformed my face. I am still holding off on facelift as I need to find the best surgeon for me when I need it.

I found an IG poster called @surgeonsourceress and she does one hour instagram interviews with individual uk plastic surgeons! Omg so informative on facelifts and how each surgeon does it differently and how from a £3495 VR vertical lift suturing the smas to the temporalis muscle under local with Nick Rhodes to a £13k smas lift with Jag Chana. She also interviews surgeons on breast and lipo but I am now concentrating on learning everything on FLs.

I learned that with FLs under local, the blood pressure is normal so bleeders can be cauterised so less bruising postop vs under GA the blood pressure is dropped for an almost bloodless field so when the patient awakes and the blood pressure is normalised bleeding and bruising occur which may prolong recovery.

I finally got around to getting a new passport with my new face! lol. No more 'is this you?" at passport immigration I hope. It is so cool that one can apply for a new passport online and upload a selfie! The UK passport site has software so it immediately ranks your photo from good to poor so you know if it will get accepted and you can keep uploading different selfies! Haven't used the passport yet as we are still trapped in the UK.


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## MissOrange

mlydzz said:


> Thank you for the response. You only had one session on your upper eyelid right? You look wonderful!


@myldzz I had a top up during full face fat graft. Probably didn't need it but it was free as all included in one price for full face.


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## MOTTY26

Ms.O I cant remember if u had a FC done or is it just fat lost? Wow at the difference.


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## seoulsister

>>for more than two month her hubby did not have a chance to have bj...<<
We are not choirgirls here but blow me down....lol
It's true ps recovery can suck sometimes  
good job we got MissOrange to lead the charge


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## MissOrange

MOTTY26 said:


> Ms.O I cant remember if u had a FC done or is it just fat lost? Wow at the difference.


Hi @MOTTY26 the before picture was taken before I had chin shaving by Ion, before facial fat graft, before rib rhinoplasty, before lip lift etc. I weighed 99 lbs in the before photo, was postmenopausal and was dehydrated from drinking champagne. I hated my face and that was the impetus for booking rib rhinoplasty with chin shaving with Ion in Feb 2016, dealt with reop for the rib rhino complication, followed by upper bleph with lid fat graft at MVP May 2016, vermillion lip lift at MVP July 2016, full face fat graft at DA July 2016, top up Sept 2016 and so on and so forth. I would have had a facelift if a surgeon agreed but ASPS in Korea said no and Dr Amir in Kent said no at the time. I was not going to stop until I looked good again. In short the before was due to severe fat loss from postmenopausal drop in oestrogen combined with dehydration, ie growing old! I dare not go to a drinks event now without downing 500 mls of water beforehand and drinking a glass of water in between glasses of champagne. Seeing one’s face melt after a glass or 2 of champagne is traumatising!

My ideal face body weight is now 101.8 lbs. Somehow I have to set the bar higher to maintain the MVP top up fat graft from Jan 2020. I am noticing the corners of my lips become down turned if I drop my weight below 101.8 with a right sided minor jowl. This means if I want a surgeon to agree to a FL, I just lose a few lbs so my face deflates? Lol. But the research is taking a long time. I have read 600+ trust pilot reviews on Mr Nick Rhodes, I have watched hour long instagram interviews with Nick Rhodes, Paul Harris, Jag Chana, etc. I have researched realself and found a heartbreaking negative review on FL with PH that has made me think I need to put off FL until I am 60 or have it done by Dr Lee at ASPS clinic in Seoul or Dr Dongman Park in his Bio clinic in Seoul. But even if I get fully vaccinated, Korea is only allowing a quarantine exemption for those who get fully vaccinated in Korea!

I do ask myself why didn’t I just get a FL at Namu Jan 2020?! I had my consult and saw his b&a’s of Western patients and the price was very reasonable and he agreed to do one and had a dedicated anaesthesiologist. Although my weight was 96 lbs and my face was saggy due to being deflated so perhaps the need was artificially induced. If only I had known about the covid ban on travel...sigh. It certainly is keeping me out of Korea and more impulsive same day or next day surgeries! It was such a hectic week in Korea, starved so I could have same day op in any clinic, armed with a credit card and offered so many choices for same or next day breast fat transfer, to threads, to facelift, to v line and zygoma surgery! Such a big difference between Korea and the U.K. I rang for a free consult with Mr Nick Rhodes and his first slot is October 1! To qualify for his VR lift, one has to be able to pull up the skin 2-3 cms on the side of the ear. I can only pull up 1 cm but maybe by October and after I lose 5 lbs, I can pull up 3 cms? Lol.


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## sanarae

MissOrange said:


> Hi @mlydzz I love, love, love my upper eyelid fat graft. Yes it has lasted for years now. Here is a photo from this month. See how full my upper lids are. Yes he has moved from MVP to run his own clinic Machimpyo. Can't believe I turn 55 soon!


You look absolutely gorgeous here!! Thanks for adding the info about Seo’s new clinic Machimpyo.

in the US, Dr Eshima in SF is often cited as the best but he is v expensive, keeps a low profile (his website doesn’t have before and after, just contact info) although you can see them in his office; (EDIT: I just saw that he retired.) He uses GA at a hospital in the area. I’ve never gone to him but I’ve often heard his name whispered about among socialites and ladies of a certain age. (Not a shill and have no affiliation. I’m a bit too young to think about FL at 35). my main interest in ptosis correction (imho Koreans do Asian eyes really brilliantly—you can customize your eye shape!), getting upper eye fillers for my direly sunken upper lids (I haven’t worn much eye makeup throughout 2020 because I can’t figure out how to work with my new eye shape and ofc all the makeup counters were closed!), some brow Botox/lift. Possibly temple (not cheek) fillers for that lovely youthful high cheekbone curve. And of course a revision rhino, or just some filler to top up an irregularity in the bridge! I noticed Koreans prefer fat grafts while US prefer fillers like Belotero - but stories like Han Ye Seul getting a lipoma from what seems like a forehead fat graft make me nervous. At least fillers can be dissolved....

I think Bray’s work is excellent, & the ladies who have gone to him are happy to talk on RealSelf—some even offered to meet up with me when I was in London because photos don’t do work justice, you know? They’re very open about complications and possible scarring too. He uses local anaesthesia.

Some Korean clinics do great work on native Koreans (who often go in groups and get surgery together for a better rate) but ignore foreigners unless they whip out a camera and film their journey. I’ve noticed that the best results on foreigners come that way if they know you are recording every step of the way (get a friend or nurse to film you when you’re recovering). Btw I would not rec a thread lift for anyone with thin (eg caucasian) skin, for the same reasons PDO eye lifts (the Fox eye trend) were a brief flash - they don’t hold up after a few months, & thin skin takes to sagging.

thanks again for such excellent info, MissOrange!
ETA: did you tint or microblade your brows? They’re beautiful and suit you well. I also noticed you started wearing light lip glosses and colors which draw attention to the eyes and away from the lower face (although tbh I don’t see a real cause for concern there...) The colors really look youthful and compliment your beauty


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## sanarae

Eg this lady had Restalyne to the upper eye and it ‘s still in place after 3 years, no top up! I know some places use Belotero though for precision. https://georgeyangmd.com/before-after-patient-case/upper-eyelid-filler-2662/
But I wouldn’t mind an upper lid fat graft if it looked like yours!  I recall your asking for Jun Ji Hyun eyes and Dr Seo did a marvellous job!


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## mlydzz

sanarae said:


> Eg this lady had Restalyne to the upper eye and it ‘s still in place after 3 years, no top up! I know some places use Belotero though for precision. https://georgeyangmd.com/before-after-patient-case/upper-eyelid-filler-2662/
> But I wouldn’t mind an upper lid fat graft if it looked like yours!  I recall your asking for Jun Ji Hyun eyes and Dr Seo did a marvellous job!


I thought fillers were much more dangerous and have a higher chance of migrating than fat graft?


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## sanarae

mlydzz said:


> I thought fillers were much more dangerous and have a higher chance of migrating than fat graft?


HA Fillers in the upper eye region have a strangely lower rate of migration and stay for years, mostly as the upper eye is not as mobile as the other parts of the face. But yes you must go to an expert who has done many of these procedures (like lasik, you want someone experienced) and preferably studied ocuplastics


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## sanarae

@MissOrange does dr Seo’s new clinic write korean or English? I am sorely not fluent and I see they have kakao, line and whatsapp but when I asked abt whatsapp I didn’t get a response. I would like to send my wish photos (aka mostly myself pre pandemic lol) vs now (35 & worn down) for evaluation. May I mention your name as a referral?


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## mlydzz

sanarae said:


> HA Fillers in the upper eye region have a strangely lower rate of migration and stay for years, mostly as the upper eye is not as mobile as the other parts of the face. But yes you must go to an expert who has done many of these procedures (like lasik, you want someone experienced) and preferably studied ocuplastics


Had no idea? I always heard the opposite and thought it was an absolute no-go. thanks.


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## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> @MissOrange does dr Seo’s new clinic write korean or English? I am sorely not fluent and I see they have kakao, line and whatsapp but when I asked abt whatsapp I didn’t get a response. I would like to send my wish photos (aka mostly myself pre pandemic lol) vs now (35 & worn down) for evaluation. May I mention your name as a referral?


Hi @sanarae, you can mention my name as a past patient of his but I am not affiliated with him or his clinic. It was the same problem getting through to mvp. I would call and ask for Ellen to kakao me, I would kakao her, etc. I assume it is the same with Machimpyo. You can try messaging @drseo on this forum, call his clinic, upload kakao as korea uses this messaging app over whatsapp etc.


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## MissOrange

While Korea still requires a 2 week quarantine for foreigners, I have been researching more uk surgeons. It seems they all train first in the MACS facelift which uses deep loop sutures to hold up the smas and very few venture into deep plane FL. The longevity of the MACS then is dependent on the longevity of the sutures and if permanent sutures are used there may be a risk of suture extrusion or reaction. But I found one in Hull Dr Vasu Karri with a background in head and neck so is not afraid of the facial nerve. He does deep plane, uses nonpermanent pds sutures and relies on scar tissue formation after the sutures dissolve and for £7,200! And he follows Dr Jacono's 60 degree FL vector! Best price and follows $120k Dr Jacono’s technique!

He is extremely honest and patient focussed and told this 50+ yo she didn't need his £7200 FL but rather his £2200 facial fat graft! Wow she looks fab after 52 ccs of fat graft! Fillers have their limitations and one cannot fill a face with 52 mls of synthetic fillers.

Dr Karri also insists on hiding his FL scars so ladies can wear their hair up without tell signs of a FL! 30% of his FLs are revision FLs from other surgeons and revising their scars too. I’m sold! But I have to wait until I am 60+ as I still don’t need it as fat has restored my youth and facial volume.

It really puts me off to see some U.K. surgeons use staples to close their facelifts. In training, we would use staples to close quickly to save time but never on the face for fear of leaving tram scars. I recall in A&E closing a laceration with fine sutures to reduce scarring and as I was taking too long, the attending said just staple the wound! But then when it came to staple removal, I saw awful tram scars from the holes left from the staples. I thought I would have to fly to Korea for a no scar FL but maybe I have found someone who doesn’t mind taking time to embroider?


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## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> You look absolutely gorgeous here!! Thanks for adding the info about Seo’s new clinic Machimpyo.
> 
> in the US, Dr Eshima in SF is often cited as the best but he is v expensive, keeps a low profile (his website doesn’t have before and after, just contact info) although you can see them in his office; (EDIT: I just saw that he retired.) He uses GA at a hospital in the area. I’ve never gone to him but I’ve often heard his name whispered about among socialites and ladies of a certain age. (Not a shill and have no affiliation. I’m a bit too young to think about FL at 35). my main interest in ptosis correction (imho Koreans do Asian eyes really brilliantly—you can customize your eye shape!), getting upper eye fillers for my direly sunken upper lids (I haven’t worn much eye makeup throughout 2020 because I can’t figure out how to work with my new eye shape and ofc all the makeup counters were closed!), some brow Botox/lift. Possibly temple (not cheek) fillers for that lovely youthful high cheekbone curve. And of course a revision rhino, or just some filler to top up an irregularity in the bridge! I noticed Koreans prefer fat grafts while US prefer fillers like Belotero - but stories like Han Ye Seul getting a lipoma from what seems like a forehead fat graft make me nervous. At least fillers can be dissolved....
> 
> I think Bray’s work is excellent, & the ladies who have gone to him are happy to talk on RealSelf—some even offered to meet up with me when I was in London because photos don’t do work justice, you know? They’re very open about complications and possible scarring too. He uses local anaesthesia.
> 
> Some Korean clinics do great work on native Koreans (who often go in groups and get surgery together for a better rate) but ignore foreigners unless they whip out a camera and film their journey. I’ve noticed that the best results on foreigners come that way if they know you are recording every step of the way (get a friend or nurse to film you when you’re recovering). Btw I would not rec a thread lift for anyone with thin (eg caucasian) skin, for the same reasons PDO eye lifts (the Fox eye trend) were a brief flash - they don’t hold up after a few months, & thin skin takes to sagging.
> 
> thanks again for such excellent info, MissOrange!
> ETA: did you tint or microblade your brows? They’re beautiful and suit you well. I also noticed you started wearing light lip glosses and colors which draw attention to the eyes and away from the lower face (although tbh I don’t see a real cause for concern there...) The colors really look youthful and compliment your beauty


Hi @sanarae, I forgot to answer your extra questions. I had my eyebrows tattooed at Tracie Giles in London years ago with one top up. It has lasted forever! I specifically asked for a light colour to soften the face and also a lighter brow tattoo colour looks more natural when you do not wear makeup. If I apply full makeup, then I use a brow pencil to thicken the brows to balance the eye makeup. As for the lips, as we have to wear masks everywhere, I tend to not bother with lipstick and just apply carmex lip balm daily. After lip lift one needs to apply lip balm or Vaseline daily for dry parched lips or maybe because I cannot reach drinking 1.5-2 litres a day so am chronically dehydrated?


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## sanarae

MissOrange said:


> Hi @sanarae, I forgot to answer your extra questions. I had my eyebrows tattooed at Tracie Giles in London years ago with one top up. It has lasted forever! I specifically asked for a light colour to soften the face and also a lighter brow tattoo colour looks more natural when you do not wear makeup. If I apply full makeup, then I use a brow pencil to thicken the brows to balance the eye makeup. As for the lips, as we have to wear masks everywhere, I tend to not bother with lipstick and just apply carmex lip balm daily. After lip lift one needs to apply lip balm or Vaseline daily for dry parched lips or maybe because I cannot reach drinking 1.5-2 litres a day so am chronically dehydrated?


Do you like ice tea or eg cucumber water @MissOrange ? It is hard to reach that level of water so I sympathize; I’m always carrying a water bottle around to force myself to drink lol. Also I’ve got into celery juice cos Nam Vo drinks it & it is really not bad! Juicing can be highly sugary if one adds fruit, but celery I’ve found oddly palatable? Can’t be bad for one nonetheless. Also thanks for the info on the brow tint! It looks so pretty on you!!!  i have dark brows and hair, & the brows don’t match my Virgin hair but am determined to keep them as full as possible. PS, i was told by my trauma medic friend that aquaphor is best for dry lips (the tub kind not the one marketed for lip). Your bullhorn lip lift is super gorgeous —I’ve only seen in the US by Dr Talei & yours turned out nicer. Maybe I should go to the UK after visiting relatives in Korea for PS! I have a job offer there


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## dinoca

Is fat graft in nasolabial folds permanent? Does the fat migrate?


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## sanarae

double post! Sorry!!!
But yes once travel is less restricted (I live in California for now; I plan to go to Korea first) I will be stopping by Heathrow on the way to see family & friends next. If anyone wants to meet up I am a friendly, polite courteous person altho you can see the lack of work in 2020.  it would be nice to have a coffee or tea or cocktail whatever suits, I’ve already been promised a tasting menu from an old schoolmate at a exclusive sashimi place lol. (I’m still angling for that one place with only 6 seats at a time lol. I love sashimi & think it’s got lots of omegas and is healthy if safely prepared.) same in Korea if anyone wants to be PS buddies since I have family there, but
My Korean is poor, I can help get discounts. Travel is so uncertain Internationally at the moment so I can’t say a definitive time. But I will def be checking out Dr Seo’s new clinic and a few which cater to locals - my cousin had her nose done there.


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## sanarae

Also Korean food is traditionally very salty (& tasty) but salt affects the surgeon’s ability to see your facial structure , & healing. So as odd as it sounds I was rec’d in the US to buy protein (helps healing) like unsalted tuna, fish, poultry etc & purée it (you can get a bullet mixer cheap or bring yr own they’re tiny). It feels strange but really if you’ve ever had a beef  or salmon tartare those are way worse in terms of texture. I’ve been told that and sinecch (arnica) are great for post procedure. I’ve eaten unsalted puréed chicken and it’s odd at first but you have to remind yourself, it is for healing. Pumpkin soups is traditional & I think ok since most clinics give it. They wash your hair for you too. They did for my cousin


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## MissOrange

I have been wondering why in me and other ladies the face seems to sag on one day and look fine the next. I used to think it was totally weight related and that it was good to gain 3-5 lbs but then the cheeks would get full and heavy and weigh down and create nasolabial lines. Hydration guidelines say we should be drinking 1.5-2 litres of fluids a day yet few achieve this. In the cold, fat cells seem to shrink and expand in the heat but then if it is too hot, the face becomes more dehydrated and sags. Eating salty foods increases one’s thirst so one can drink up to 2 litres. Eating carbs may help us retain fluid. Eating a fatty diet can help feed the fat cells. All this did my head in until I decided I needed to look good for an interview and instead of my morning bran, ate a buttery croissant for breakfast and forced myself to drink 1.5 litres a day. This worked without the need to gain weight. Here is my selfie from 2 days ago. I am pretty impressed as the weight is only 100.8 lbs yet the face looks taut. No wonder ladies look good when they wake up from general anaesthetic as the anaesthetist usually gives a litre of fluid through the iv during an operation. I guess I need to shelve my research on facelifts for now and revisit when I am 60. It looks like I shall have reached age 55 without the need for a facelift.


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## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> Also Korean food is traditionally very salty (& tasty) but salt affects the surgeon’s ability to see your facial structure , & healing. So as odd as it sounds I was rec’d in the US to buy protein (helps healing) like unsalted tuna, fish, poultry etc & purée it (you can get a bullet mixer cheap or bring yr own they’re tiny). It feels strange but really if you’ve ever had a beef  or salmon tartare those are way worse in terms of texture. I’ve been told that and sinecch (arnica) are great for post procedure. I’ve eaten unsalted puréed chicken and it’s odd at first but you have to remind yourself, it is for healing. Pumpkin soups is traditional & I think ok since most clinics give it. They wash your hair for you too. They did for my cousin


@sanarae salty Korean foods may be encouraging ladies to drink more fluids! No wonder Korean ladies have great complexions!


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## MissOrange

Wow folks! I just learned that the extended deep plane facelift is the most technically difficult but best facelift in the world and that Dr Dongman Park at Bio clinic in Seoul does this “extended“ deep plane facelift which ventures further into tiger territory where the facial nerve branches sit! No U.K. surgeon does the extended deep plane! Dr Bray only does the regular deep plane for £26k so does not dissect down to the 2 ligaments holding down the nasolabial fold as there is more risk of damaging the facial nerve branches, but super experienced Dr Park does for $15-£20k! Here is the best explanation of the difference in facelifts given on Instagram...https://www.instagram.com/tv/COsaNJxAeQb/?igshid=189rnr2xu7edm&fbclid=IwAR3UCorVgBfbGm55lcTC84BTqZ4nOGiuNmA4eJ-Tyby9k0D_tIuzMsSlfsE


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## sanarae

@MissOrange your profile is basically perfection 
(Also I meant I was cautioned by some US docs to avoid salt before a procedure such as a rhino for up to a week —  also some said after — so that they could better see the bone structure eg of the nose to operate more precisely  in patients with thin skin, sans the swelling salt may produce. (International PS guidelines and practices vary so wildly! Sorry for any misunderstanding!)


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## MissOrange

Now that we know the different types of facelifts, we can better understand when a surgeon says he does the plication smas facelift which is folding over the excess smas layer and suturing across it. Not everyone can afford $120k or £26k for a deep plane FL or £12k-£14k for a smas facelift so do look around. Dr Bert Oelbrandt charges €4K euro for smas plication facelift. Dr Karri charges £7500 for a deep plane FL. His price has gone up from £7200 to £7500. I got an email with this price. I have posted a b&a from Dr O’s Instagram. He gives £40 consults or £60 for multiple surgery consults on Wimpole Street (probably zoom until travel is allowed). Some U.K. surgeons charge up to £300 for a consult! It may be worth getting a cheaper second opinion as all the consults add up. In Korea, all consults are free!


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## MissOrange

dinoca said:


> Is fat graft in nasolabial folds permanent? Does the fat migrate?


Hi @dinoca, the fears with fat graft are migration and reabsorption. As we move our mouths a lot when we eat, drink or speak, the fat cells are likely to reabsorb somewhat. But if you can keep your weight 3-5 lbs more than your surgery weight for 4-6 months, it gives the best chance for the fat cells to survive. Once they have taken, then it is a matter of +++ daily hydration and eating healthy fats to expand the fat cells. If your diet is low in fat, then the fat cells will shrink and look like they have gone when they may just be waiting to be fed fat!

As fat is heavy it can drop over time which is why finding the best fat transfer surgeon is key so he knows how much to inject in fine layers and where, ie in an ideal diamond face shape. It is a skill to avoid the fat cells clumping and forming lipomas.


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## MissOrange

Yesterday I saw plastics and burns consultant surgeon Mr Declan Collins for a second adcortyl steroid injection to my 7 months old hypertrophic periareolar scars. I am pleased to say the first injection in March flattened half of the then 5 months old scars so am looking forward to this second dose flattening the rest. He also does laser treatment for scars but I am scared off lasers for life. For anyone with surgical or traumatic keloids or hypertrophic scars, it may be worth seeing a board certified plastic surgeon specialist in scars instead of picking a laser doc from Instagram like I did to my detriment. Mr Collins sees patients at the London Scar Clinic. https://www.152harleystreet.com/specialist/declan-collins/. He gets my recommendation for treating hypertrophic scars effectively!


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## MissOrange

When we talk about good days and bad days what do we mean when talking about our face? Here is a side by side of a good day April 18, 2019 vs a bad day April 6, 2019. What happened? On April 6 it was a cold morning and I had not drunk water or eaten yet and was on a vegan salad diet for lunch all week to reduce my lipoprotein A and cholesterol. On April 18 I enjoyed sunny Brighton, ate a fatty Korean lunch, basked in a sauna, drank lots of water and weighed a lb more than on April 6.

So before you rush into booking a facelift check your weight, fluid intake and diet. It is not surprising that our faces have fat cells that need feeding and watering especially when after the menopause the number of fat cells have reduced or fat graft cells shrunken from a vegan diet non existent in fat. Do the water challenge and drink at least 1.5 litres a day of water. If your face plumps up you definitely do not need a facelift but are sagging from dehydration. Add a meal with healthy fats and see what happens.


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## alicia K

.


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## alicia K

MissOrange said:


> @pinkypuppet37 I paid DAPRS 2.5 million won for 2 full facial fat grafting and included a 10% tax refund. Be prepared to negotiate with the consultant in person. The price initially started higher! I mentioned the price given to a friend and asked to match this as she had been offered 1.8 million for one or 2.5 million fo two. They agreed. I have since negotiated a third as although the fat grafting has stayed in the forehead and temples (only had it done once there), I think I need a top up again to the malar cheeks and around the mouth to stay permanently six months after my second. DA started at 1.5 million won and I started at 700,000 won for the third. We agreed at 1 million won. I would say know your budget and if the quote is still too high over kakao, meet with Dr Kim in person and then afterwards try your best to get them to work with you so it can be affordable for you. If you are active on social media, this can help with negotiations. I feel foreigners should be paying as close to local prices as possible and finding clinics that do this and have board certified plastic surgeons then becomes a win:win.


Hi! you look amazing! is there any other clinics you recommend for facial fat grafting? I am looking at premier. Also to clarify DARPS stands for DA plastic surgery Korea right? Is this their site? ( DA PLASTIC SURGERY (daprseng.com)


----------



## MissOrange

alicia K said:


> Hi! you look amazing! is there any other clinics you recommend for facial fat grafting? I am looking at premier. Also to clarify DARPS stands for DA plastic surgery Korea right? Is this their site? ( DA PLASTIC SURGERY (daprseng.com)


Hi @alicia K for facial fat graft I recommend Dr Seo who left MVP for his own clinic Machimpyo. Yes I tried DA or DAPRS first.


----------



## MissOrange

Before you look at skin treatments or surgery, make sure you are not dehydrated. Here are google photo images of dehydrated skin.


----------



## MissOrange

I have made it to age 55 without a facelift! I decided to go back to brunette. My natural hair colour is black but it is hard to find a box dye that doesn’t turn hair into an unnatural jet black so I have tried L‘oreal excellence 6.0 which is a natural light brown. My hair looks healthier darker without battling orange to stay blonde. And I can maintain brown without strong salon bleaches. Interestingly my Brazilian hair stylist shared that 3 of his Brazilian clients had facelifts in Korea! I replied that Brazil was known for plastic surgery and he responded that for liposuction and silicone implants Brazil had the best surgeons but for faces, they fly to Korea! If only I knew which surgeon in Korea his clients went to.

When a 20 year old looks 55, we think oh she has had a hard life and feel pity for her but when a 55 year old looks 20, they think freak! So I shall live the rest of my life without revealing my true age to strangers. Even at the airport they do not need to know my age as they just look at your passport picture and scan your passport to check identity. Only a hospital or clinic needs to know your age. In 5 years when I get my age 60 senior citizen free oyster travelcard, I shall have to carry my driver’s licence as proof of age as the TFL staff might accuse me of identify theft! Lol. So ladies if you look a lot younger, on pain of death, never reveal your true age unless you know for sure they can handle it and not glare at you like a circus freak!


----------



## MissOrange

A word of caution when using sites like realself. I have found that one of the plastic surgeons they have on their site has stolen both his facelift patient photos from other surgeons! Dr Riaz Agha is a U.K. plastic surgeon who was offering free consults on realself. As I was researching facelifts, I read with interest and was impressed he had uploaded 192 photos to realself as examples of his work. I scrolled to facelifts and saw he had 2 examples of his facelifts. I was particularly impressed by the facelift of a young brunette....and then an astute lady in a FB group told me she had seen that photo before! OMG! Turns out it was from Dr Andrew Jacono’s website and an example of his facelifts in forties facelift! I informed Dr Jacono and thought if he has done this once, maybe the other photo is also not his work but stolen. I searched facelift images on google and there it was. The other facelift photo was not his but belonged to Dr Jeremy Hunt in Australia! This raises concerns about the other 190 photos he claims as examples of his work.

I reiterate the best way to be safe is to contact real patients as it seems even plastic surgeons in the U.K. have falsely advertised their skills using patient photos from global surgeons! Shocking!


----------



## Tremere

@MissOrange who do you prefer between Dr. Karri and Bio Clinic? You are truly the best.


----------



## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> @MissOrange who do you prefer between Dr. Karri and Bio Clinic? You are truly the best.


@Tremere, Dr Dongman Park at the Bio clinic does extended deep plane FL for $15,000-$20,000 and has outstanding b&a results on Instagram. If there were no covid quarantine for arrivals to Korea, I would say fly to Korea. There is also Dr Lee at ASPS in Korea renowned for facelifts and a real Asian American lady posted her journey with Dr Lee on this forum.

If you cannot wait for Korea to open to foreigners without mandatory quarantine, then best to explore surgeons local to you. I have not found a patient of Dr Karri’s to chat with and in my opinion his photos are not as good as Dr Park or Dr Lee. But if cost is an issue, then he is the cheapest for deep plane at £7500.

Dr Michele Pascali in Rome has good Instagram results for deep plane facelift for around €15,000.


----------



## Tremere

MissOrange said:


> @Tremere, Dr Dongman Park at the Bio clinic does extended deep plane FL for $15,000-$20,000 and has outstanding b&a results on Instagram. If there were no covid quarantine for arrivals to Korea, I would say fly to Korea. There is also Dr Lee at ASPS in Korea renowned for facelifts and a real Asian American lady posted her journey with Dr Lee on this forum.
> 
> If you cannot wait for Korea to open to foreigners without mandatory quarantine, then best to explore surgeons local to you. I have not found a patient of Dr Karri’s to chat with and in my opinion his photos are not as good as Dr Park or Dr Lee. But if cost is an issue, then he is the cheapest for deep plane at £7500.
> 
> Dr Michele Pascali in Rome has good Instagram results for deep plane facelift for around €15,000.


 
Thank you so much. I'm located in Spain ATM, so I'm trying to find a good surgeon in my country. I'm super young, but I want to do V-Line, and I'm aware I'll probably need a lift after. I wonder if a SMAS lift will be enough.


----------



## MissOrange

Okay folks my 55 year old face sagged +++ and eating cake and drinking a litre of water failed to reinflate my lower face. This means it is time for a facelift. I pulled at my face in different directions and the vector that looked best and most natural was a vertical pull to pull up what gravity had pulled down.

I rang Dr Dirk Kremer's PA Antoinette this morning for last minute slots and got one today at 5 pm! The consultation fee is £125 which is reasonable as some London surgeons charge £250.

It was amazing meeting Dirk Kremer at 64 Harley Street. He gave me a big mirror to tell him what I did not like about my face. We were both in sync agreeing that a vertical lift would make me both younger and more beautiful!!! He showed me where he would cut and how he hides the scar inside the ear tragus and behind the ear and in the hair so one can wear one's hair up.

I told him I wanted his turn back time facelift tomorrow and that Koreans book next day surgery as they do their research before the consultation. His PA looked up cancellations and there was one before September...June 15! Done! I'll take it! I paid the £1k deposit and tomorrow will get emails on where to get my bloods and covid test. It will be an overnight stay.

I am sooooooo excited! His patients have the best b&a results and I am chatting with one 3 weeks out!


----------



## MissOrange

Always, always check that your plastic surgeon is board certified in plastic surgery whether you have your surgery in Korea, USA or the U.K. I heard on the grapevine that Dominic Bray is NOT board certified in plastic surgery?! What?! But he charges £26,000 for his deep plane facelift??? So I checked the GMC doctor’s register and it is true! OMG! So I then checked Dirk Kremer for due diligence and phew, he is board certified in plastic surgery. Ausgezeichnet!


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## MissOrange

Okay folks with my face and neck lift in 3 weeks time and wishing I hadn’t dyed my hair so dark, should I dye my hair back to blonde or wait until after surgery? I might look okay dark after a facelift but then it is easier to dye hair before surgery than after.


----------



## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> Thank you so much. I'm located in Spain ATM, so I'm trying to find a good surgeon in my country. I'm super young, but I want to do V-Line, and I'm aware I'll probably need a lift after. I wonder if a SMAS lift will be enough.


Hi @Tremere, the question to ask is in which vector does the surgeon do the facelift. I think the vertical vector is best and not a pull sideways.


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## tfdthroaway

MissOrange said:


> As we age we know the lower jawbone shrinks. After a FL, the length of the face may appear shorter and the cheeks wider as it now emphasizes a smaller jawbone but not as much a smaller zygoma. The golden ratio is changed. This means for some ladies it may make them look less attractive post FL if by shortening the length of the face and widening the cheek area, the proportions are further off the golden ratio.



Is there any way to prevent or slow down the loss of jaw bone as we age?


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## seoulsister

Good luck MissOrange,
Excited for you!!


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## MissOrange

tfdthroaway said:


> Is there any way to prevent or slow down the loss of jaw bone as we age?


Hi @tfdthroaway I am taking daily vitamin D and calcium supplements. Some postmenopausal ladies take HRT as it helps maintain bones but I don’t want to take hormones. Also vital to maintain good dental hygiene as losing teeth speeds up loss of jawbone.


----------



## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> Okay folks my 55 year old face sagged +++ and eating cake and drinking a litre of water failed to reinflate my lower face. This means it is time for a facelift. I pulled at my face in different directions and the vector that looked best and most natural was a vertical pull to pull up what gravity had pulled down.
> 
> I rang Dr Dirk Kremer's PA Antoinette this morning for last minute slots and got one today at 5 pm! The consultation fee is £125 which is reasonable as some London surgeons charge £250.
> 
> It was amazing meeting Dirk Kremer at 64 Harley Street. He gave me a big mirror to tell him what I did not like about my face. We were both in sync agreeing that a vertical lift would make me both younger and more beautiful!!! He showed me where he would cut and how he hides the scar inside the ear tragus and behind the ear and in the hair so one can wear one's hair up.
> 
> I told him I wanted his turn back time facelift tomorrow and that Koreans book next day surgery as they do their research before the consultation. His PA looked up cancellations and there was one before September...June 15! Done! I'll take it! I paid the £1k deposit and tomorrow will get emails on where to get my bloods and covid test. It will be an overnight stay.
> 
> I am sooooooo excited! His patients have the best b&a results and I am chatting with one 3 weeks out!
> 
> View attachment 5091751
> 
> 
> View attachment 5091753
> 
> 
> View attachment 5091756


Hello Miss Orange,

That’s real soon - so exciting!!  Good luck with your facelift! After a v line surgery and weight loss, I am having loose and saggy skin oround the lower part of face/ jaw line and I need the exact type of surgery. I trust your knowledge so much that I would like to follow your decision and go for a consultation with Dr. Kremer, but I would like to ask you about the price first? Sorry for my English. Many thanks in advance.


----------



## MissOrange

NewMe83 said:


> Hello Miss Orange,
> 
> That’s real soon - so exciting!!  Good luck with your facelift! After a v line surgery and weight loss, I am having loose and saggy skin oround the lower part of face/ jaw line and I need the exact type of surgery. I trust your knowledge so much that I would like to follow your decision and go for a consultation with Dr. Kremer, but I would like to ask you about the price first? Sorry for my English. Many thanks in advance.


Hi @NewMe83 his prices have gone up from £13950 this month so you would have to check with his office. He has cancelled my operation for medical reasons.


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## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> Hi @NewMe83 his prices have gone up from £13950 this month so you would have to check with his office. He has cancelled my operation for medical reasons.


I see, thank you very much for your reply. Sorry to hear that, I hope it’s not too serious. Unfortunately it is not within my budget. Someone suggested me to do my research in Thailand.


----------



## MissOrange

I have cut out fat from my diet and lost weight from 102.2 lbs to 101 lbs and it seems to have helped me get back my “good day” face. As I am no longer a suitable candidate for facelift, I shall have to monitor my fat intake, ie no fat, to help control the weight of the fat in my fat grafted cheeks. This is good as a reduced fat diet will also help with my high cholesterol and lipoprotein A.


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## seoulsister

oh no, I hope you are ok


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## glowup2021

@MissOrange hi, are there any UK clinics or surgeons you recommend for facial fat transfer? I was hoping to only pay 2-3k in GB.


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## hoodedko

If you haven't posted your before pics, I would have sworn you were a promoter who was actually 20 pretending to be 50.


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## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> I have cut out fat from my diet and lost weight from 102.2 lbs to 101 lbs and it seems to have helped me get back my “good day” face. As I am no longer a suitable candidate for facelift, I shall have to monitor my fat intake, ie no fat, to help control the weight of the fat in my fat grafted cheeks. This is good as a reduced fat diet will also help with my high cholesterol and lipoprotein A.


You look so young and beautiful - the facelift can definitely wait for when you’ll really need it. Indeed, “bad fats” - and “white carbs” should be monitored for our health, weight and skin.


----------



## MissOrange

glowup2021 said:


> @MissOrange hi, are there any UK clinics or surgeons you recommend for facial fat transfer? I was hoping to only pay 2-3k in GB.


Hi @glowup2021,

Yes there is one board certified plastic surgeon in Hull, Dr Vasu Karri of Karri Clinic who does impressive facial fat transfer for £2,200. He even suggested fat transfer for volume instead of face lift and she turned out amazing!


----------



## glowup2021

MissOrange said:


> Hi @glowup2021,
> 
> Yes there is one board certified plastic surgeon in Hull, Dr Vasu Karri of Karri Clinic who does impressive facial fat transfer for £2,200. He even suggested fat transfer for volume instead of face lift and she turned out amazing!



thank you so much. it says he charges 2,500£ on his website, that is a very good price. Probably better than flying to S.Korea all the time. Do you think its fine to go back to work after a day and if someone says you have a puffy face, just pretend you had an allergic reaction? lol


----------



## MissOrange

glowup2021 said:


> thank you so much. it says he charges 2,500£ on his website, that is a very good price. Probably better than flying to S.Korea all the time. Do you think its fine to go back to work after a day and if someone says you have a puffy face, just pretend you had an allergic reaction? lol


@glowup2021 wow he increased his price already! I checked his site only this month. Prices are skyrocketing for FLs in London from £14k now to £20k+ this month alone!

No you cannot go back to work next day as the swelling from facial fat transfer may be +++. It is worst on day 2/3 and can last over a week and the bruises 2 weeks. You may look like a battered girl!


----------



## MissOrange

I have now lost 2 lbs of weight in 8 days since Monday's horrific saggy face. I am never eating fat ever again! My diet is now back to alpen bran cereal with oat milk (no dairy fat) for breakfast with black coffee, lunch is noodles with OJ or strawberries and dinner is wholewheat spaghetti with lloyd grossman sauce or rice with seaweed sheets and salmon and salad. I am sworn off pastries, cake, ice cream etc. It is too dangerous for anyone who has had facial fat graft to the cheeks!

I have booked a full head of blonde highlights for Thursday. I can't get comfortable with brown hair. It doesn't reflect the sun as well as blonde hair and it is super hot in London this week...well 25C. I am also wearing spf 50 on my face and body in the hot sun to protect the skin, collagen and elastin.

Here is my 8 days b&a after I lost 2 lbs of fat weight, went completely fat free and wore my head compression bandage watching netflix in bed.


----------



## MissOrange

Time to take out your tape measure ladies! Dr Dongman Park of Bio Clinic in Korea has a guide for ageing based on distance between your ear and nose and between the bottom of your ear and where the jowl might start. Needless to say I have already measured my face and it fits the measurements of a lady in her 20s!

Today I learned that most U.K. facelift surgeons use staples along the hairline. This is something I am not happy to have as staples may leave staple imprint scars. Also while training in the US we practiced surgery on pigs and dogs and used staples. The image of staples in my head is not a good one. Although staples may be of use in abdominal surgery, it is not necessary for the hairline in my opinion and if anything could be an excuse to save time and time is money for some plastic surgeons.

Good to see that Dr Park uses fine sutures only. I think in Asia surgeons know that ladies insist on invisible scars. What is the point of having a facelift if one has to drape one’s hair over one’s ears and never wear a ponytail for fear of visible wide scars? It looks like I should be patient and wait for covid restrictions to be lifted so that I can travel to Korea without a 2 week quarantine. In the meantime I am trying to find a happy medium, ie a weight and a diet that the fat cells in my cheeks and the skin of my face like to prevent sagging from volume loss or from skin stretching from the weight of the fat graft.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> oh no, I hope you are ok


Yes I am @seoulsister. I requested all sutures and not part staples and part sutures as I have allergic contact dermatitis. The UK surgeon was not comfortable with my request for all sutures and no staples and the best he could offer through his PA was taking the staples and sutures out at 10 days and not 12 days. My understanding through his PA is that he cancelled my operation as I could not keep staples and sutures in for 10 days and was concerned about my allergic contact dermatitis and how I would cope with internal sutures. He never spoke to me in person. I only got relayed his message through his PA by phone. I had bullhorn lip lift with sutures, internal ones for the soft tissues and muscles and external interrupted ones to close the skin with no complications. I also had blepharoplasty with muscle ptosis correction which involves both internal and external sutures with no issue. In both instances my skin healed and closed in a few days. My issues were with stainless steel staples that may contain nickel or titanium that I may react to, and that my skin heals fast so I do not need sutures in for 10 days around my ear but rather 5-7 days at most else my dermatitis flares up. Perhaps it was meant to be so that I could wait and find a surgeon who embroiders the entire length of the incision as they do in Korea. I must say I still marvel at MVP’s Dr Choi’s vermillion lip skin closure as there literally is NO scar! He used the finest interrupted sutures. I have to give credit to Korean plastic surgeons as they are the best at invisible scar plastic surgery procedures.


----------



## seoulsister

I suppose he has to follow his own protocols but I would hope he would have had the courtesy to tell you directly that he didn't want to proceed rather than get his staff to inform you but we know everybody likes to be the bearer of good news but no one wants the job of relaying bad news. 

However I hope I would be like you and be philosphical regarding this situation though. 

Like you said maybe it wasn't meant to be and either Seoul is calling you or maybe you will shortly find an even better London FL surgeon who does sutures.


----------



## coolwaves

How long does fat transfer last if injected above the eyelids?


----------



## MissOrange

coolwaves said:


> How long does fat transfer last if injected above the eyelids?


@coolwaves forever! Omg I love how the upper eyelid fat graft stays put no matter how much I blink! It makes my upper face look super young. Upper lid fat graft and bullhorn lip lift are the best permanent reverse ageing procedures at affordable prices!


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## MissOrange

Yay I went back to blonde. Remind me never to go dark again. Blonde hair detracts from an ageing face! lol


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## coolwaves

How many times did you do fat transfer to get your upper lids fully filled minus reabsorption?
I had a lip lift ten years ago but I think I need a revision. When I smile, I can see the scar right at the nasal septum. Wonder if that can be improved.


----------



## mlydzz

MissOrange said:


> I have now lost 2 lbs of weight in 8 days since Monday's horrific saggy face. I am never eating fat ever again! My diet is now back to alpen bran cereal with oat milk (no dairy fat) for breakfast with black coffee, lunch is noodles with OJ or strawberries and dinner is wholewheat spaghetti with lloyd grossman sauce or rice with seaweed sheets and salmon and salad. I am sworn off pastries, cake, ice cream etc. It is too dangerous for anyone who has had facial fat graft to the cheeks!
> 
> I have booked a full head of blonde highlights for Thursday. I can't get comfortable with brown hair. It doesn't reflect the sun as well as blonde hair and it is super hot in London this week...well 25C. I am also wearing spf 50 on my face and body in the hot sun to protect the skin, collagen and elastin.
> 
> Here is my 8 days b&a after I lost 2 lbs of fat weight, went completely fat free and wore my head compression bandage watching netflix in bed.
> 
> View attachment 5098184


Why is eating fat bad for fat graft?


----------



## MissOrange

I have now booked a vertical vector VR facelift under local with Mr Nick Rhodes in York for July 5. He trained in maxfacs and plastic surgery and is plastic surgery board certified. His prices start at £3490 for a vertical FL and I have chatted with and seen photos of 2 ladies who had FLs with him recently and they  look natural and fab. One lady is almost 60 and looks like a teenager now!!! Incredible transformation. It is a 2 hour train from London so I have booked a night at a hotel by the rail station for after surgery. My virtual consult is on June 19. To book the surgery, I had to send multiple views of my face via WhatsApp for him to study. As the longevity of facelifts is unpredictable and can vary from 5-15 years, I am starting with the least invasive FL. It sounds like a macs lift or a smas plication. Studies have shown that for ladies 50-59 and 60-69 smas lifting is more attractive than deep plane and for over 70s, the deep plane lift looks better. Having it under local means less swelling, less bruising and less facial distortion. The recovery should be quicker. Looking at his postop photos it looks like ladies recover by 5 days postop. He uses dissolvable sutures for those with sensitive skin so no need for staples. They have suggested I may need facial lipo too. But I may just stick to the FL as I want to do the minimum for the lower face skin sag.

Here is his IG patient.


----------



## MissOrange

mlydzz said:


> Why is eating fat bad for fat graft?


@mlydzz it is the amount of fat that needs monitoring as the fat graft has introduced more fat cells to the face and if too much fat is consumed, these fat cells may expand unpredictably. It needs careful monitoring of fat intake and seeing how much fat affects the face.


----------



## MissOrange

I


coolwaves said:


> How many times did you do fat transfer to get your upper lids fully filled minus reabsorption?
> I had a lip lift ten years ago but I think I need a revision. When I smile, I can see the scar right at the nasal septum. Wonder if that can be improved.


I had lid fat transfer in May 2016 and top up in 2017.


----------



## mmsnyc

MissOrange said:


> I have now booked a vertical vector VR facelift under local with Mr Nick Rhodes in York for July 5. He trained in maxfacs and plastic surgery and is plastic surgery board certified. His prices start at £3490 for a vertical FL and I have chatted with and seen photos of 2 ladies who had FLs with him recently and they  look natural and fab. One lady is almost 60 and looks like a teenager now!!! Incredible transformation. It is a 2 hour train from London so I have booked a night at a hotel by the rail station for after surgery. My virtual consult is on June 19. To book the surgery, I had to send multiple views of my face via WhatsApp for him to study. As the longevity of facelifts is unpredictable and can vary from 5-15 years, I am starting with the least invasive FL. It sounds like a macs lift or a smas plication. Studies have shown that for ladies 50-59 and 60-69 smas lifting is more attractive than deep plane and for over 70s, the deep plane lift looks better. Having it under local means less swelling, less bruising and less facial distortion. The recovery should be quicker. Looking at his postop photos it looks like ladies recover by 5 days postop. He uses dissolvable sutures for those with sensitive skin so no need for staples. They have suggested I may need facial lipo too. But I may just stick to the FL as I want to do the minimum for the lower face skin sag.
> 
> Here is his IG patient.
> 
> View attachment 5103599


Hi have you try the ultherapy treatment ? Where are you located?


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## MissOrange

mmsnyc said:


> Hi have you try the ultherapy treatment ? Where are you located?


Hi @mmsnyc I am in London. Yes I tried ultherapy in korea. It was too painful and accelerated loss of the lower face fat graft.

Here is a timeline from ages 25 to 50 (bleph+lid fat graft +lip lift at MVP) to 55 in May and 55 in June with my hair dyed back to blonde. I am 9 years postmenopause. The chin shaving at age 49 may not have been necessary as the bone reabsorbs post menopause. I fear for those who got extreme v lines in Korea for when postmenopause accelerates facial bone loss. I may need to consider topical oestrogen but first will try an entry level lower facelift with the VR vertical macs lift in 27 days time.


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## seoulsister

This is brilliant news, made my day - really excited for you. 

Cheaper, local not general, maybe even better results than you know who and sutures. Doesn't get better than that! Good luck MissOrange  Try to remain calm


----------



## glowup2021

Anyone know when S.Korea will be ok to travel again without the mandatory 14 day quarantine at a government facility?


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## mmsnyc

glowup2021 said:


> Anyone know when S.Korea will be ok to travel again without the mandatory 14 day quarantine at a government facility?


ask the Korean embassy’s near by, email them, I email last week, even vaccine in US needs to quarantine. I think September should lift the quarantine rules, just my opinion, who knows this quarantine rules might stay forever


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> This is brilliant news, made my day - really excited for you.
> 
> Cheaper, local not general, maybe even better results than you know who and sutures. Doesn't get better than that! Good luck MissOrange  Try to remain calm


@seoulsister The surgeon wants to see me for a F2F consult on June 19 in York prior to the VR FL on July 5. I have lost weight from 102.2 lbs at the saggiest to 98.8 lbs. Not sure if that is a good thing or not. I shall find out in 11 days. I hope to get his VR, as prices are going up again in the UK with Bray charging £29,500 for a deep plane FL/NL in Kent! British ladies are struggling to help each other find reasonably priced FLs.

My plan is this VR FL to last from 55-60 and then Korea's Dr Dongman Park for an extended deep plane which should last from 60-75 as he has recently revised a lady of his who had a 15 yo FL with him previously!


----------



## seoulsister

Dear MissOrange,
Have you asked the FL FB ladies the merits of losing weight before FL? I suppose it makes sense definitely to lose weight before not after. 98.8 probably favours your body more lol


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> Dear MissOrange,
> Have you asked the FL FB ladies the merits of losing weight before FL? I suppose it makes sense definitely to lose weight before not after. 98.8 probably favours your body more lol


@seoulsister you have a point! Omg 2 hours ago I took a selfie and for the first time in 5 years, I have finally regained the face MVP clinic gave me in July 2016!!! I have beaten myself up so much for ruining my face 3 days after the photo of me at age 50 for getting full face fat graft at DA clinic. And a tpfer told me I ruined my face with too much fat graft. Sigh. Well it has been a crazy 18 days going from a high fat diet and weighing 102.2 lbs with terrible sagging to a super low fat, high carbs and high protein diet with wearing a head compression garment and doing my facial exercises mouthing 'O' 'E' and now weighing 98.8 lbs 2 days in a row.

I shall keep my consult appointments as they are free and the train fares are non refundable and see what Dr Nick and Dr Amir say. To think Dr Bray's PA emailed me back in March saying I needed a £25k FL/NL!

I shall wait until next week and doll up to see how pretty I can look for my appointment with Dr Nick Rhodes in York. He might look at me and the saggy pics I sent and scratch his head in confusion and say there is nothing to lift? What happened?

I applied the free golden ratio app to the afters of postop ladies of Bray, Kremer and Nick Rhodes and the winner was Nick Rhodes. He made a 59 yo look 25 according to the golden ratio measurements for only £4995 (bleph+VR vertical macs FL).

The free golden ratio face app says I look 23 in the photo on the right. Yay 55 years old and still looking 20s.


----------



## MissOrange

I came across a US plastic surgeon whose comments have made me more confused. He says he can do deep plane lifts in a 25 year old??? And that smas lifts make one look older, that a smas is a fiat and a deep plane a Ferrari, and how a mini facelift is called maximum scar as it relies on tension? Here is his IG video. 

So I started studying 2 of the ”top” U.K. FL surgeons’ IG before and afters. The deep plane lift in a 57 year old by Bray who had a GRFace age of 72 did result in a GRFace age of 52 but the 57 yo who had a GRFace age of 55 only looked one year younger postop after Bray’s deep plane and both of Bray’s ladies were still in the normal beauty category and not pretty or perfect as the facelift did not address the philtrum, nose tip, fat, forehead, etc. This suggests that research papers may be right in that deep planes may be better in ladies in their 70s+ or those who look 70s beforehand.

The smas vertical lift by DK increased his patient’s GRFace beauty score and GRFace age went up from 42 to 44; the latter is what the surgeon in the video was alluding too. Hm. Maybe the lesson of the day is smas may improve wrinkles and sag but may also raise the GRFace age. DK said he couldn’t make a person more beautiful with a FL if they were not beautiful when younger. This suggests to increase the beauty score from ugly or normal to pretty or perfect, one may need to have additional procedures to a FL, ie lip lift, blepharoplasty, etc.

With my GRFace age at 23 if I have a smas lift now, I may well up end looking 30s! I shall be very mindful of this when I see Nick next Saturday for my F2F consult.

That said my plastic surgery role model Cindy Jackson who is 65 has already had at least 5 facelifts! I keep thinking what am I missing out on? Lol. She has achieved being in the perfect GRFace beauty category. I achieved a perfect GRFace beauty category without a FL and used that photo for my current passport. At least I have a perfect category photo to look at for the next 10 years in case my face ages more. Lol.

If one wishes to spend £29,500 on Bray’s deep plane FL or $120,000 on Jacono’s deep plane FL, it may be worth considering surgeons who do deep plane for less ie Dr Karri’s deep plane for £7,500 so that one can also get tip rhinoplasty, bullhorn lip lift, upper lid blepharoplasty with lid fat graft also to reduce the GRFace age significantly and increase the beauty score.


----------



## MissOrange

Okay so here is an image of the free golden ratio face app. I have also put together a collage and as you can see with Angelina Jolie as the perfect 10, I am still struggling to look as beautiful as she is! Lol. Cindy Jackson has achieved the perfect GRFace at a score of 9.39 but at a GRFace age of 40. My score is highest with my glasses on at 9.43 which suggests I look better with glasses on than without but subjectively I am nowhere as stunning as Angelina! Lol. What do I need to do to increase my score from 9.43 to 10 while struggling to fight postmenopausal facial bone reabsorption and lack of oestrogen causing loss of deep facial fat? Lol.


----------



## Fortunecat

@MissOrange How have you been? I hope all is well for you! I can see that you are in your journey for a facelift! Best of luck to you in your beauty quest!!!


----------



## mlydzz

MissOrange said:


> @mlydzz it is the amount of fat that needs monitoring as the fat graft has introduced more fat cells to the face and if too much fat is consumed, these fat cells may expand unpredictably. It needs careful monitoring of fat intake and seeing how much fat affects the face.


Oh no thats so disappointing cuz I'm a big foodie ((


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange How have you been? I hope all is well for you! I can see that you are in your journey for a facelift! Best of luck to you in your beauty quest!!!


Hi @Fortunecat, I may be holding off on a FL. Looks like some surgeons end up making their ladies look older after FL by creating a too strong or sharp jawline. I have been studying teenage faces and they have baby fat which makes the jawline less sharp. A great surgeon would take this into account so as not to create an imbalance and older face.


----------



## MissOrange

Here are 2 selfies today. One lying down which shows me what a FL would look like and one sitting upright. The FL would pull up the lower face but if too tight would put me in my 30s. Without a FL the slight skin droop over the jaw resembles a young person with a bit of baby fat and puts me in my 20s. Fingers crossed tomorrow the plastic surgeon says I do not need a FL. It has been tough maintaining my wedding day weight this past week.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Here are 2 selfies today. One lying down which shows me what a FL would look like and one sitting upright. The FL would pull up the lower face but if too tight would put me in my 30s. Without a FL the slight skin droop over the jaw resembles a young person with a bit of baby fat and puts me in my 20s. Fingers crossed tomorrow the plastic surgeon says I do not need a FL. It has been tough maintaining my wedding day weight this past week.
> 
> View attachment 5113609
> 
> 
> View attachment 5113610
> 
> 
> View attachment 5113613


Oh my! I did not know about all these stuff!
@MissOrange You are so well-versed in this!!! Do update us on your progress again!


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @Fortunecat, well I had a series of good days and then yesterday after 3 hours of tube and train travel to York I had a bad face day. I had eaten sushi for lunch and chicken salad with crisps on the train. Maybe it was the salt or msg that made my cheeks swell! Nick Rhodes told me I was a suitable candidate for his VR FL! My entry level FL is on for July 5 in 15 days!!! I asked exactly how he does his FL and his incision is along the temple, curves inside the front of the ear and ends at the bottom of the ear. He does not cut behind the ear so as to avoid a pixie ear. He then dissects skin down to the jowls and elevates the smas with 2 permanent braided Ethibond polyester sutures and secures to the temporalis fascia. He told me that this fascia is incredibly strong. He then sutures the tissues to anchor points with monocryl dissolvable sutures and closes skin with a running prolene suture that can then be removed in a week. The moment he mentioned polyester my heart sank. I dare not speak up but after the consult messaged to explain I had eczema to polyester and how I had my permanent nose sutures holding my rib rhino graft exchanged for pds 5 years ago after my nose abscess. I was so afraid he would cancel like Kremer but instead his wife Orla reassured me they had pds in stock and offered me a call with Nick next week. I hope he agrees to try pds instead of ethibond on my smas. It is deviating from his normal practice but I researched and the jury is out for both rhinoplasty and FLs as to whether to use permanent or dissolvable sutures. The premise is that as long as dissolvable sutures hold for 3 months, then scar formation maintains the hold. I realised this means my rib graft in the bridge and tip of my nose is being held in place now by scar formation after the pds dissolved in 3-6 months and it has held for over 5 years now! Does this mean my entry level VR FL could also hold for 5 years plus?

I read that the gold standard is smas imbrication for a full FL which involves dissecting, trimming and suturing the smas rather than just rely on sutures like in smas plication or MACS suspension but I think this is patient dependant. I have relatively mild laxity and I think excess skin from too many fat grafts stretching my skin so think even trimming the skin 2.5 cms on each side which is what Nick does combined with a pds dissolvable lift of the smas until scar formation secures it, should work wonders! Time will tell.

I then found an IG blogger who has had Nick’s VR FL 1-1.5 years ago and still looks great! That was the final check to find someone at least a year out who was still happy. I have attached her photo as she interviews Nick on his VR FL. She even showed her invisible scars in the video interview!

His old price is £3495 and his new price is £3995. I wonder which one I will be charged soon.


----------



## lookingfor2022

I think it’s very interesting to follow your surgery journey. Especially cause everything looks so natural which is not very often the case but I think it all has to do with finding the right doctors.

I am from Germany and wanted to go to a London eyelid surgeon cause I have some Asymmetry and she takes it very serious and can help me but now we have problems with flying to the uk. Now I can’t come even with booking a quarantine hotel.

my experiences with plastic surgery have a good and a bad side. I did my nose 3 times but I’m done with it. I did my lower eyelids after that but I was a scarless technique from the inside. Sometimes I think the doctor could have been pushing more up but maybe there is a limit cause of this small surgery.

then I had buccal fat removal cause I wanted a more sculpted look and it did work a little but sometimes I think it would have been better if I had the facelift at the same time cause the doctor told me you will be here again in 5 years. And it would have been cheaper if I did it all together. I just had buccal fat removal and chin lipo. Anyway I think with 32 I’m too young for a lift. And maybe this will make my face look too feminine and I’m a guy. 

now I just want to fix my upper eyelid asymmetry and chin surgery cause I have this fold under my lip and my chin is very short.
Maybe I would have a lip lift cause my distance under the nose is big ! But I like my natural lip shape and I’m a little scared that it would change too much and I’m afraid of the scar. But on miss orange it looks so good so I don’t know.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat, well I had a series of good days and then yesterday after 3 hours of tube and train travel to York I had a bad face day. I had eaten sushi for lunch and chicken salad with crisps on the train. Maybe it was the salt or msg that made my cheeks swell! Nick Rhodes told me I was a suitable candidate for his VR FL! My entry level FL is on for July 5 in 15 days!!! I asked exactly how he does his FL and his incision is along the temple, curves inside the front of the ear and ends at the bottom of the ear. He does not cut behind the ear so as to avoid a pixie ear. He then dissects skin down to the jowls and elevates the smas with 2 permanent braided Ethibond polyester sutures and secures to the temporalis fascia. He told me that this fascia is incredibly strong. He then sutures the tissues to anchor points with monocryl dissolvable sutures and closes skin with a running prolene suture that can then be removed in a week. The moment he mentioned polyester my heart sank. I dare not speak up but after the consult messaged to explain I had eczema to polyester and how I had my permanent nose sutures holding my rib rhino graft exchanged for pds 5 years ago after my nose abscess. I was so afraid he would cancel like Kremer but instead his wife Orla reassured me they had pds in stock and offered me a call with Nick next week. I hope he agrees to try pds instead of ethibond on my smas. It is deviating from his normal practice but I researched and the jury is out for both rhinoplasty and FLs as to whether to use permanent or dissolvable sutures. The premise is that as long as dissolvable sutures hold for 3 months, then scar formation maintains the hold. I realised this means my rib graft in the bridge and tip of my nose is being held in place now by scar formation after the pds dissolved in 3-6 months and it has held for over 5 years now! Does this mean my entry level VR FL could also hold for 5 years plus?
> 
> I read that the gold standard is smas imbrication for a full FL which involves dissecting, trimming and suturing the smas rather than just rely on sutures like in smas plication or MACS suspension but I think this is patient dependant. I have relatively mild laxity and I think excess skin from too many fat grafts stretching my skin so think even trimming the skin 2.5 cms on each side which is what Nick does combined with a pds dissolvable lift of the smas until scar formation secures it, should work wonders! Time will tell.
> 
> I then found an IG blogger who has had Nick’s VR FL 1-1.5 years ago and still looks great! That was the final check to find someone at least a year out who was still happy. I have attached her photo as she interviews Nick on his VR FL. She even showed her invisible scars in the video interview!
> 
> His old price is £3495 and his new price is £3995. I wonder which one I will be charged soon.
> 
> View attachment 5115541
> 
> 
> View attachment 5115542


@MissOrange oh my! I am so excited for you. However, I would like to ask you if you are going to have this VR FL now, will you be able to have the full SMAS lift in the future because you mentioned that there will be scar formation etc? Will this VR lift affect any FL that you are going to do in the future?


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange oh my! I am so excited for you. However, I would like to ask you if you are going to have this VR FL now, will you be able to have the full SMAS lift in the future because you mentioned that there will be scar formation etc? Will this VR lift affect any FL that you are going to do in the future?


Hi @Fortunecat that is a good question. Nick said it would not affect a future full FL though. Can't remember how he explained it. The consult was an hour and full of details about the operation. I didn't take any notes as I did not expect to receive so much information. Incredibly educational.


----------



## MissOrange

With 12 days to go I am both nervous and excited to get my entry level vertical macs lift with pds dissolvable sutures. Dr Tonnard who invented this claimed his ladies macs lift with pds lasted 7 years from 1999 to 2007. I have looked at 3 of Nick Rhodes's recent ladies and 1 who is 1.5 years out. They consistently look super young and pretty. The best result was a 59 year old who ended up looking 25. She is a month out so will be posting a realself review after her next check up. Here is an IG blogger in her early 40s who is 1.5 years out and had his VR FL around December 2019 and lip lift around December 2020, now looking 22 based on her golden ratio measurements. She would have paid £3495 for the VR facelift and £1900 for the lip lift. Incredible pricing and result!

The vertical vector FL is catching on in USA. Dr Amir Karam also does vertical smas lifts with fab results.

In Korea they push deep plane at all ages. I would say hold off on the big guns until you have severe lower face and neck sagging. I much prefer subtle rejuvenating vertical lifts every 5-7 years so you still look like yourself, just a natural younger version.

Also look at pricing. There is no point in emptying out your entire savjngs account £29,500 or $120,000 for a deep plane lower facelift when it does not address the ageing forehead, receding hairline, upper lid hollows, crows feet, drooping nose tip with ageing. You need to budget to rejuvenate your entire face and body.


----------



## MissOrange

The secret to reverse facial ageing is to combine a fat transfer to replace lost deep tissue fat, with upper bleph, lip lift and a vertical vector facelift. Dr Amir Karam’s 60 year old had fat transfer, upper and lower blephs and a vertical vector lower facelift. One cannot expect to turn back time successfully without addressing the loss of deep facial fat post menopause with either natural weight gain or autologous fat transfer. I have gone one step further and addressed an ageing drooping nose tip with a tip rhinoplasty and then a Barbie nose lift. So the final step for me to stay looking 20s is the vertical vector entry level FL in 12 days time.


----------



## MissOrange

lookingfor2022 said:


> I think it’s very interesting to follow your surgery journey. Especially cause everything looks so natural which is not very often the case but I think it all has to do with finding the right doctors.
> 
> I am from Germany and wanted to go to a London eyelid surgeon cause I have some Asymmetry and she takes it very serious and can help me but now we have problems with flying to the uk. Now I can’t come even with booking a quarantine hotel.
> 
> my experiences with plastic surgery have a good and a bad side. I did my nose 3 times but I’m done with it. I did my lower eyelids after that but I was a scarless technique from the inside. Sometimes I think the doctor could have been pushing more up but maybe there is a limit cause of this small surgery.
> 
> then I had buccal fat removal cause I wanted a more sculpted look and it did work a little but sometimes I think it would have been better if I had the facelift at the same time cause the doctor told me you will be here again in 5 years. And it would have been cheaper if I did it all together. I just had buccal fat removal and chin lipo. Anyway I think with 32 I’m too young for a lift. And maybe this will make my face look too feminine and I’m a guy.
> 
> now I just want to fix my upper eyelid asymmetry and chin surgery cause I have this fold under my lip and my chin is very short.
> Maybe I would have a lip lift cause my distance under the nose is big ! But I like my natural lip shape and I’m a little scared that it would change too much and I’m afraid of the scar. But on miss orange it looks so good so I don’t know.


Hi @lookingfor2022 You are right. The key to looking natural is to research, research, research and find the best surgeons for each rejuvenating procedure. Message me your photo and I can give my thoughts. Yes both Germany and USA have blocked travellers! No Brits can enter Germany or USA! Aargh!


----------



## iamthaiana

MissOrange said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.
> 
> 1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!
> 
> 2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.
> 
> 3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.
> 
> 4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.
> 
> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.
> 
> Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!




Your results look amazing!!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Fortunecat, well I had a series of good days and then yesterday after 3 hours of tube and train travel to York I had a bad face day. I had eaten sushi for lunch and chicken salad with crisps on the train. Maybe it was the salt or msg that made my cheeks swell! Nick Rhodes told me I was a suitable candidate for his VR FL! My entry level FL is on for July 5 in 15 days!!! I asked exactly how he does his FL and his incision is along the temple, curves inside the front of the ear and ends at the bottom of the ear. He does not cut behind the ear so as to avoid a pixie ear. He then dissects skin down to the jowls and elevates the smas with 2 permanent braided Ethibond polyester sutures and secures to the temporalis fascia. He told me that this fascia is incredibly strong. He then sutures the tissues to anchor points with monocryl dissolvable sutures and closes skin with a running prolene suture that can then be removed in a week. The moment he mentioned polyester my heart sank. I dare not speak up but after the consult messaged to explain I had eczema to polyester and how I had my permanent nose sutures holding my rib rhino graft exchanged for pds 5 years ago after my nose abscess. I was so afraid he would cancel like Kremer but instead his wife Orla reassured me they had pds in stock and offered me a call with Nick next week. I hope he agrees to try pds instead of ethibond on my smas. It is deviating from his normal practice but I researched and the jury is out for both rhinoplasty and FLs as to whether to use permanent or dissolvable sutures. The premise is that as long as dissolvable sutures hold for 3 months, then scar formation maintains the hold. I realised this means my rib graft in the bridge and tip of my nose is being held in place now by scar formation after the pds dissolved in 3-6 months and it has held for over 5 years now! Does this mean my entry level VR FL could also hold for 5 years plus?
> 
> I read that the gold standard is smas imbrication for a full FL which involves dissecting, trimming and suturing the smas rather than just rely on sutures like in smas plication or MACS suspension but I think this is patient dependant. I have relatively mild laxity and I think excess skin from too many fat grafts stretching my skin so think even trimming the skin 2.5 cms on each side which is what Nick does combined with a pds dissolvable lift of the smas until scar formation secures it, should work wonders! Time will tell.
> 
> I then found an IG blogger who has had Nick’s VR FL 1-1.5 years ago and still looks great! That was the final check to find someone at least a year out who was still happy. I have attached her photo as she interviews Nick on his VR FL. She even showed her invisible scars in the video interview!
> 
> His old price is £3495 and his new price is £3995. I wonder which one I will be charged soon.
> 
> View attachment 5115541
> 
> 
> View attachment 5115542



Oh wow.  I thought that was Elizabeth Hurley there in the video!


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Oh wow.  I thought that was Elizabeth Hurley there in the video!


I wish! @Lien with 1 week to go I am both nervous and excited! I learned that I will need to eat soft foods for 4 days postop! And to use a fork and not spoon. Some surgeons say to wear compression for 4 weeks and some say not to wear any compression. Very confusing.

I was given the old price so I am super happy. I have learned his record is trimming 3.2 cms of skin from each side with his VR smas lift. One 49 year old lady he did the VR lift in January of this year looks 28 according to the golden ratio measurements app! But the record is a 59 year old lady who looks 25 after his vertical VR lift. I wonder how young I will look afterwards if I am starting at looking 20s already. Lol.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> I wish! @Lien with 1 week to go I am both nervous and excited! I learned that I will need to eat soft foods for 4 days postop! And to use a fork and not spoon. Some surgeons say to wear compression for 4 weeks and some say not to wear any compression. Very confusing.
> 
> I was given the old price so I am super happy. I have learned his record is trimming 3.2 cms of skin from each side with his VR smas lift. One 49 year old lady he did the VR lift in January of this year looks 28 according to the golden ratio measurements app! But the record is a 59 year old lady who looks 25 after his vertical VR lift. I wonder how young I will look afterwards if I am starting at looking 20s already. Lol.



Ahhh, the compression issue - kinda like fat transfer for breasts, I reckon.  Some surgeons say wear it, some don't.  Who knows!

Great that you got the old price!!  Maybe you'll look 10, hahahaha.  Good luck, @MissOrange.  I am waiting for your update with bated breath and good luck to you.  Happy surgery and great healing!! xx


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Ahhh, the compression issue - kinda like fat transfer for breasts, I reckon.  Some surgeons say wear it, some don't.  Who knows!
> 
> Great that you got the old price!!  Maybe you'll look 10, hahahaha.  Good luck, @MissOrange.  I am waiting for your update with bated breath and good luck to you.  Happy surgery and great healing!! xx


@Lien it is now 6 days to go! Woohoo. I have to travel super light as the hotel will not store luggage during this covid period. So I have downsized to one tote bag! The cheapest I could find for a FL in Korea was 6 mill won at MVP and 9-12 mill won elsewhere. I never thought I could afford a FL in the U.K. Well I can’t afford London prices which are now £14.8k to £20k! But I can hop on a train and travel up North. I guess it is the same for Americans who can fly to a cheaper state rather than pay a fortune for a FL in NYC or California. The running costs would be a lot less outside of big cities.


----------



## Tremere

@MissOrange where did you have your first lip lift in Korea?


----------



## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> @MissOrange where did you have your first lip lift in Korea?


Hi @Tremere I had my first lip lift, a vermillion border lip lift with Dr Choi at MVP in Seoul. It did not reduce my philtrum length but did remove the duck lip side effect of scar tissue build up in my upper lip from a decade of lip fillers.


----------



## MissOrange

With 5 days to go I am reminded of these 2 selfies I showed Nick Rhodes. I told him I wanted to look like the zero gravity face when standing up. The photos show I actually have a natural v line jawbone hidden by lower face laxity! I wonder if he can deliver on Monday? Even halfway would be good.


----------



## MissOrange

With 4 days to go to my very first FL, I found photos of Han Ye Seul that indicate she may have had a FL in 2013! She would have been 31. How time flies. She is now 39 dating a 29 year old. Does that mean if you look younger, you have to date younger men or does that mean if you are single at 39, men your age prefer younger ladies in their 20s and think by the time a 39 year old weds, she may struggle to have children?

I put together a side by side of HYS posing in bed with zero gravity vs mine. Amusing to compare eyes as I had brought Dr Seo a picture of HYS in May 2016 and asked for her eyes. Pretty close. I need to change my eye makeup for a better match. Dr Seo has now left MVP and set up his own clinic Machimpyo. His IG is dotplasticsurgery.


----------



## MissOrange

When researching plastic surgeons for facelifts, make sure you do not fall for the chin pressed against the neck before IG photo to demonstrate a double or triple chin before a facelift, neck lipo or neck lift compared to an after using the natural smile to show a sharp jawline. This is all an IG illusion. I have put together a collage of me today to demonstrate how someone may be fooled into believing I had an amazing £20k FL/NL when all I did was pose using my smiling facial muscles to lift up my face! Another trick used is to show after photos with full makeup, high brightness setting to eliminate wrinkles, lines, folds, lighting and filters. Try to find like for like before and after photos of non smiling ladies with no makeup or filters.


----------



## Lien

Not long for you to go now, @MissOrange ! Are you excited?


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Not long for you to go now, @MissOrange ! Are you excited?


Hi @Lien it is D-2 today. I booked a wash and blowdry for Sunday morning in preparation for Monday. I have taken HCQ with zinc prophylaxis as I shall be travelling by tube and train during Monday morning rush hour. It should cover me for a week. It will be raining in York so I can hide my bandaged face under an umbrella. I shall wear a zipped hoodie instead of a baseball cap for better coverage. My only worry is I will be able to hear sounds and smell the smoke from the electric cautery during the op under local so I may get palpitations and it is a long op 2.5 hours to be awake. I hear they play music in the theatre which will help unless I don’t like the music! Lol. I shall take a sleeping pill to make me drowsy. I would love to have been put to sleep and then awake to “it’s all done” but that would entail a hospital and GA. Under local, I am anticipating less bruising and swelling and a faster recovery.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien it is D-2 today. I booked a wash and blowdry for Sunday morning in preparation for Monday. I have taken HCQ with zinc prophylaxis as I shall be travelling by tube and train during Monday morning rush hour. It should cover me for a week. It will be raining in York so I can hide my bandaged face under an umbrella. I shall wear a zipped hoodie instead of a baseball cap for better coverage. My only worry is I will be able to hear sounds and smell the smoke from the electric cautery during the op under local so I may get palpitations and it is a long op 2.5 hours to be awake. I hear they play music in the theatre which will help unless I don’t like the music! Lol. I shall take a sleeping pill to make me drowsy. I would love to have been put to sleep and then awake to “it’s all done” but that would entail a hospital and GA. Under local, I am anticipating less bruising and swelling and a faster recovery.



Wow!  You're doing it under local?!  Was mild sedation not available?  I've had sultures done to my eyelids under mild sedation...so not GA but not local.  I am too squeamish to be awake!

Anyhow, the best of the best of luck.  Will your hubby be there to take you home?


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Wow!  You're doing it under local?!  Was mild sedation not available?  I've had sultures done to my eyelids under mild sedation...so not GA but not local.  I am too squeamish to be awake!
> 
> Anyhow, the best of the best of luck.  Will your hubby be there to take you home?


Hi @Lien, no I shall be on my own. I shall walk to the nearby hotel after the op tomorrow and head home by train the next day. I have been compiling a collage of my bad face sag days. I don’t know why they happened. Was it loss of fat graft? Was it a sensitivity to msg/salt causing cheek engorgement weighing down the face? Was it weight loss or dehydration deflating the lower face? Was it a delayed menopause reaction? I am hoping that after tomorrow, I shall not have any more bad face sag days. And by excising the excess skin, I get more of a U shape or V line and a smaller face! Time will tell in 18 hours time!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien, no I shall be on my own. I shall walk to the nearby hotel after the op tomorrow and head home by train the next day. I have been compiling a collage of my bad face sag days. I don’t know why they happened. Was it loss of fat graft? Was it a sensitivity to msg/salt causing cheek engorgement weighing down the face? Was it weight loss or dehydration deflating the lower face? Was it a delayed menopause reaction? I am hoping that after tomorrow, I shall not have any more bad face sag days. And by excising the excess skin, I get more of a U shape or V line and a smaller face! Time will tell in 18 hours time!



Amaaaaazing luck to you again, @Miss_Orange.  I shall be thinking of you today and tomorrow.  U-shape/V-line/smaller face, here comes Miss_Orange!!

Please take care on the way to the hotel post-op as well as on your journey home.  And if you're feeling dizzy/sick/not up to travelling, please consider staying back for an extra night.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Amaaaaazing luck to you again, @Miss_Orange.  I shall be thinking of you today and tomorrow.  U-shape/V-line/smaller face, here comes Miss_Orange!!
> 
> Please take care on the way to the hotel post-op as well as on your journey home.  And if you're feeling dizzy/sick/not up to travelling, please consider staying back for an extra night.


Thank you @Lien! Omg it is done! Here is my b&a on day 1. On the left is 11 am today as I entered Nick Rhodes's face etc clinic in York. The op was from 11:50 to 14:25. The right is 3.5 hours post op at 6 pm! A bit swollen on one side but that will go. Nick trimmed a whopping 2.5 cms from each side and lifted my smas! I wore my ebay china compression bandage for 2 hours postop which helped. He gave me my zero gravity face while sitting now! His VR macs vertical lift is incredible. He used 3-0 pds sutures to hold up my smas, as this has held up my chin skin for 5 years+ post chin shaving. Can't believe I got a vertical smas facelift+ antibiotics+antibiotic cream+gauze for £3495 or around $5,500. Nick is inundated with patients. He is a genius board certified surgeon! And he beats prices in Korea!


----------



## pie

Your facelift result is amazing!


----------



## MissOrange

pie said:


> Your facelift result is amazing!


Thanks @pie! Even more amazing is he matched my zero gravity lying in bed face so now I know how I will look wearing makeup!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Thank you @Lien! Omg it is done! Here is my b&a on day 1. On the left is 11 am today as I entered Nick Rhodes's face etc clinic in York. The op was from 11:50 to 14:25. The right is 3.5 hours post op at 6 pm! A bit swollen on one side but that will go. Nick trimmed a whopping 2.5 cms from each side and lifted my smas! I wore my ebay china compression bandage for 2 hours postop which helped. He gave me my zero gravity face while sitting now! His VR macs vertical lift is incredible. He used 3-0 pds sutures to hold up my smas, as this has held up my chin skin for 5 years+ post chin shaving. Can't believe I got a vertical smas facelift+ antibiotics+antibiotic cream+gauze for £3495 or around $5,500. Nick is inundated with patients. He is a genius board certified surgeon! And he beats prices in Korea!
> 
> View attachment 5128642



OMG OMG OMG!!

That's SPECTACULAR!!!  I am super super happy for you!!

Where are your bruises?  I don't even see any swelling!!  It's AMAZING!!

I am gonna contact his office for an appt.  When I can manage to travel back to the UK, I am gonna go see him!!  The cost is incredible too, about 1/4 of what you'd have to pay in Singapore.  OMG!!

How are you feeling on day 2?

Oh btw, what is this ebay China compression bandage?  Can you pls share the link?  Thank you.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Thank you @Lien! Omg it is done! Here is my b&a on day 1. On the left is 11 am today as I entered Nick Rhodes's face etc clinic in York. The op was from 11:50 to 14:25. The right is 3.5 hours post op at 6 pm! A bit swollen on one side but that will go. Nick trimmed a whopping 2.5 cms from each side and lifted my smas! I wore my ebay china compression bandage for 2 hours postop which helped. He gave me my zero gravity face while sitting now! His VR macs vertical lift is incredible. He used 3-0 pds sutures to hold up my smas, as this has held up my chin skin for 5 years+ post chin shaving. Can't believe I got a vertical smas facelift+ antibiotics+antibiotic cream+gauze for £3495 or around $5,500. Nick is inundated with patients. He is a genius board certified surgeon! And he beats prices in Korea!
> 
> View attachment 5128642



Omg! @MissOrange You look amazing!!! You look so young! If I ever need a facelift, I might consider going to UK instead of Korea now!


----------



## seoulsister

I knew it would work out. Well done MissOrange to you and your choice in surgeon. You look so young and you can sustain it long term instead of deep plane for a good few years. You should add "detective" to your CV lol


----------



## Lien

seoulsister said:


> I knew it would work out. Well done MissOrange to you and your choice in surgeon. You look so young and you can sustain it long term instead of deep plane for a good few years. You should add "detective" to your CV lol



Agreed!


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> OMG OMG OMG!!
> 
> That's SPECTACULAR!!!  I am super super happy for you!!
> 
> Where are your bruises?  I don't even see any swelling!!  It's AMAZING!!
> 
> I am gonna contact his office for an appt.  When I can manage to travel back to the UK, I am gonna go see him!!  The cost is incredible too, about 1/4 of what you'd have to pay in Singapore.  OMG!!
> 
> How are you feeling on day 2?
> 
> Oh btw, what is this ebay China compression bandage?  Can you pls share the link?  Thank you.


Hi @Lien here are close ups of the fine stitchwork..Wearing the compression bandage 24/7 means no bruising and it reduces swelling. Plastic surgeons say 1 week in Korea or 2 weeks in USA.


----------



## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @pie! Even more amazing is he matched my zero gravity lying in bed face so now I know how I will look wearing makeup!


Wow, such impressive rezults!!! You look even more young and gorgeous now! I hope your scars will heal very well. Are you maybe going to be using anything to help with that? I’ve heard about ozonated oil, have you yet? Thanks.


----------



## msalbany

looking good


----------



## Gats

Looks great! I thought there'd be much more swelling on day 1 but your facial volume looks perfect even though he didn't do any FG with the FL. Question: did he instruct you to place any type of ointment on the stitches? I'm wondering if that or the use of other things like silicone gel sheets are prescribed to prevent scarring for FLs.


----------



## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @pie! Even more amazing is he matched my zero gravity lying in bed face so now I know how I will look wearing makeup!


Did you also do a neck lift ??? 
your jawline seems well defined


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien here are close ups of the fine stitchwork..Wearing the compression bandage 24/7 means no bruising and it reduces swelling. Plastic surgeons say 1 week in Korea or 2 weeks in USA.
> 
> View attachment 5129217
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129218
> 
> 
> View attachment 5129219



INCREDIBLE!! He did excellent work!!  How long before the scars start to fade?

Are you suffering from any pain or is it minimal too?

Thanks for the link, @MissOrange.  It's a great idea.


----------



## Lien

Pakune said:


> Did you also do a neck lift ???
> your jawline seems well defined



I agree that your jawline is so amazing too, @MissOrange.


----------



## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> Did you also do a neck lift ???
> your jawline seems well defined


Hi @Pakune, no neck lift. I think pulling up and securing the smas and pulling up and trimming 2.5 cms of skin on each side for my vertical vector facelift, also improved my neck! Added bonus!


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> INCREDIBLE!! He did excellent work!!  How long before the scars start to fade?
> 
> Are you suffering from any pain or is it minimal too?
> 
> Thanks for the link, @MissOrange.  It's a great idea.


Hi @Lien, I only had pain the first day Monday evening. I felt the pain was 7/10 after Tylenol. I would say make sure you have stronger painkillers with you for the first day. On Tuesday I took paracetamol and it was fine. Today I just remembered to take one paracetamol (Tylenol) so there really is no pain now. I am wearing my Amazon ice pack head wrap today and drinking lots of pineapple juice. No bruising as I wore the head compression overnight too. Today I see some swelling but am managing to keep it at bay with the ice pack and head compression bandage.


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> Looks great! I thought there'd be much more swelling on day 1 but your facial volume looks perfect even though he didn't do any FG with the FL. Question: did he instruct you to place any type of ointment on the stitches? I'm wondering if that or the use of other things like silicone gel sheets are prescribed to prevent scarring for FLs.


Hi @Gats, there was 40 mls of anaesthetic fluid on each side that I massaged out. It gave me a full fat graft look! Lol. I was given chloramphenicol antibiotic ointment to put on the stitches. Yes I should look into silicone sheets in future. I have E45 cream to keep moisturising it when the stitches come out. Head compression really works to suppress both swelling and bruising.


----------



## MissOrange

Looks like Katie Price may have had a horizontal vector facelift, pulling her skin and smas towards her ears. This unfortunately may create an unnatural facelift appearance and may leave a wide scar by the ear as too much tension is placed here. The best vector is vertical to reverse the effects of gravity.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> I knew it would work out. Well done MissOrange to you and your choice in surgeon. You look so young and you can sustain it long term instead of deep plane for a good few years. You should add "detective" to your CV lol


Thanks @seoulsister! I feel like a detective. Dominic Bray quoted £25k for his deep plane FL/NL, Dirk Kremer wanted £13,950 for his full smas FL/NL and in the end all I needed was Nick Rhodes vertical vector MACS lift at £3495. Less is more! My motto! To think I kept flying back to Korea for more facial fat transfers when my lower face sagged when all I needed was a definitive face lift with excess skin excision and smas lift. This is a word of warning that facial fat transfer reabsorbs in the lower face so one may need repeated top ups, threads or a lower face lift to deal with the stretched skin from fat injections. Here is my chamber of horrors and the solution was a facelift! No need to watch my diet, salt intake, fluid intake, or wake up asking myself if I would be having a good face day or bad sag face day. Those days are now over permanently just like the 2.5 cms of skin on each side that was cut away for good! Say bye bye to my ugly face days! I wish I had never tried facial fat transfer in my lower face. Ladies, fat transfer is for the upper face only.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Looks like Katie Price may have had a horizontal vector facelift, pulling her skin and smas towards her ears. This unfortunately may create an unnatural facelift appearance and may leave a wide scar by the ear as too much tension is placed here. The best vector is vertical to reverse the effects of gravity.
> 
> View attachment 5129934



That's such a bad job.  And look at the horrible scars! OMG.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> That's such a bad job.  And look at the horrible scars! OMG.


Hi @Lien, my eczema acted up and I had to take the prolene sutures out today on postop day 3. I shall let them heal with steristrips, ie naturally. Fingers crossed I don’t scar!

My cheeks swelled yesterday evening and today on day 3 look huge. Not unexpected as post surgical swelling occurs on postop days 2/3. Then I had a Eureka moment. I recall one of Bray’s ladies saying she was given steroids postop. Steroids are great for deswelling! I was given steroids by my hair transplant surgeon years ago. I looked in my medicine drawer and yes, I have leftover steroid tablets from when I reacted to the covid vaccine. I took some just now. Stay tuned! I want to know if my face deswells super fast now?

My neck now has bruises as my compression garment does not cover my neck. I have applied arnica to the bruises and continue to drink pure pineapple juice. My mole has gone up an inch under my ear! Lol. Love this new b&a photo (see below).


----------



## catelet

You look wonderful! And yes, your jawline is impressive! What type of anesthesia was used? Were you awake, or under twilight or general?


----------



## catelet

Nevermind--I read back further it appears you did local---you were awake, correct? How was that??


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Nevermind--I read back further it appears you did local---you were awake, correct? How was that??


@catelet, OMG I will never do local again I said at the time. I would pay extra for twilight iv sedation. If you have local, make sure to ask they apply emla topical lidocaine cream to numb the skin before they insert long needles deep into your face and ear 3 times on each side. I kept pushing my right thumbnail into my left palm and holding my breath in pain forgetting to breathe. Yelped a few times. Then came the cannula which was shoved into the face 3 times on each side to flood the area with 40 mls of anaesthetic like tumescent fluid for lipo. Painful but not as much as the long needles. Just a lot of shoving sensation. Sigh. I wish there were a better way to administer anaesthetic. Surely topical anaesthetic would have helped and maybe rubbing the area while injecting? After that no pain, no pressure, no feeling and away the surgeon went doing the op. Yes awake but I kept my eyes shut as the thought of my face open with my eyes open was too scary to contemplate. His wife was brilliant. She chatted with me the whole time so the 2.5 hours passed very fast. She kept asking questions on my life story which easily fills 2.5 hours! Lol. Then I felt totally embarrassed that I had shared such personal details of me and my family! Lol. But in return they shared their life stories too. It was really nice to be able to connect with your surgeon like your family GP. I am sure the final result will make me say, okay local was fine and bring a tube of emla when I get it done again in my 60s! Lol.

Pod 4 I still have mild swelling in the lower face so have put on my compression bandage. No pain after the 1st day. Shall take another dose of steroids later today with my oral antibiotics. Switched from chloramphenicol ointment to mupiricin for better staph aureus skin bug coverage on the incision sites. There is a lot of staph resistance now but mupiricin still has 98% efficacy against staph. I had leftover from burn surgery to repair the 3rd degree burn from laser treatment in a clinic in London. Will never have laser ever again! Can’t take any chances of infection from early suture removal. Found compression on scars helps make them invisible so the longer I wear compression the better the scars. I have put gauze over my ears to protect the incision sites. I love how this garment has holes for the ears! Can’t believe it only cost £3.99 from EBay when UK brands cost £40+! It is easy to wash and reuse too. I want a small face so compression is good! Lol.

My collar neck bruises are improving with arnica. Phew. The lopsided upper lip is either from the bullhorn or the vermillion lip lift. I can correct this with lipstick after freedom day. The lesson of plastic surgery is you have to be prepared for minor imperfections.

You can see how the upper face looks young from facial fat transfer. It takes away the forehead wrinkles permanently as wrinkles are due to excess skin so by adding fat volume, it doesn’t wrinkle. As the forehead hardly moves you can just get 1-2 fat transfers to the forehead, temples and upper eyelids. It is permanent. The only wrinkles I have left are crows feet when I smile but none visible at rest but Botox only lasts 2-3 months. If your nose is too long, you may wish to consider a tip rhinoplasty to tilt the tip up for a more youthful angle but the downside is it gives you a short nose so you may have nostril show. And remember if you get facial fat transfer to the lower face, then be prepared to need a lower facelift when the fat reabsorbs in this area, especially after repeated fat transfers!


----------



## MissOrange

The incision at the temple is fading already as expected as my healing speeds up without synthetic skin sutures. Hoping it becomes an invisible scar. My face still needs to deswell at the sides but coming along nicely.


----------



## catelet

Wow! You are a trooper--thanks for sharing what it was really like. It's much appreciated as I've considered fl under local as well but haven't taken the plunge yet. Hearing the actual experience from someone is so helpful. The long needle sounds pretty spooky for sure (yikes!) but you made it through and look at you now!! Your incisions look great btw. You look beautiful and I love your amazing jawline!!  Thamks for the warning too about getting fat to the lower face--will take note; but it's great how it's lasted so well on your upper face.


----------



## seoulsister

Dear MissOrange, I wish you speedy recovery and a great result. It is looking v good 
 Hopefully you can eat what you want now without any effect to your face.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> Dear MissOrange, I wish you speedy recovery and a great result. It is looking v good
> Hopefully you can eat what you want now without any effect to your face.


@seoulsister omg I ordered a kalbi dosirak with salty seaweed sheets for lunch and ate it all up without fear of big cheeks and a saggy face! Incredible. I wish I had done this sooner. Saved me suffering from good and bad days and needing to watch my weight, diet, and fluid intake. It was a crazy way to live.

I have a postop follow up on Tuesday in York as I left a cut piece of prolene in my lower left ear by accident trying to take out my own sutures. I am covering my left ear with a sterile adhesive plaster to stop me touching that ear until Nick looks at it. I think next time perhaps ask for 6 day dissolvable vicryl rapide and take antihistamines.

My face is slimmer this evening, end of day 4 with ice pack wraps, compression and lots of fluids.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 5 coming along nicely. Still swollen on the sides so back in a compression bandage. Last night I did not wear the compression and awoke to puffy cheeks! Best to keep wearing for 24/7 for 1 week. Here is a b&a from today.

Jan 2020 View, Namu and Girin were right to say I needed a FL. Girin wanted to add zygoma reduction and v line! Less is more.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Day 5 coming along nicely. Still swollen on the sides so back in a compression bandage. Last night I did not wear the compression and awoke to puffy cheeks! Best to keep wearing for 24/7 for 1 week. Here is a b&a from today.
> 
> Jan 2020 View, Namu and Girin were right to say I needed a FL. Girin wanted to add zygoma reduction and v line! Less is more.
> 
> View attachment 5132633


@MissOrange Wow! You are looking good! Your nasolabial folds are gone after the FL! You look so young now! Wow!!! Do update us on your progress again!


----------



## Transformation2021

MissO I note that you said you were vaccinated. Fully? ie 2 shots? I presume you had AstraZeneca? Too difficult and scary as to which one to have. Astra has killed 32 in the UK. I mean they say it's rare but it's Russian Roulette, how do you know you're not going to be one of the 32? Blood clots has killed 3 Australian women so far, one is their 30's, 50's and 60. Then with Pfizer there's heart inflammation problems. Grrr


----------



## seoulsister

Dear MissOrange,
It looks like some kid has hacked into your account and replaced your photos with theirs lol
Young & beautiful!


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> MissO I note that you said you were vaccinated. Fully? ie 2 shots? I presume you had AstraZeneca? Too difficult and scary as to which one to have. Astra has killed 32 in the UK. I mean they say it's rare but it's Russian Roulette, how do you know you're not going to be one of the 32? Blood clots has killed 3 Australian women so far, one is their 30's, 50's and 60. Then with Pfizer there's heart inflammation problems. Grrr


Hi @Transformation2021, I took 1 dose of HCQ before the AZD and still got side effects but would have been much worse without. My daughter took 2 doses of HCQ before Pfizer and had no side effects. I am not going to take a booster in the fall. Too scared.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Wow! You are looking good! Your nasolabial folds are gone after the FL! You look so young now! Wow!!! Do update us on your progress again!


Hi @Fortunecat, as long as you are not tired of all my selfies! Lol. Here are some from this afternoon! The incisions are healing fast! Can’t wait to doll up. Getting my hair blow dried on Monday so may try on some makeup after, ie the red  lipstick  test!


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> Dear MissOrange,
> It looks like some kid has hacked into your account and replaced your photos with theirs lol
> Young & beautiful!


You are too kind @seoulsister. No wonder I am hooked on the KD Racket Boys. I feel like a teenager! Lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> That's such a bad job.  And look at the horrible scars! OMG.


Hi @Lien, I have noted that Brit ladies under 55 are being turned down for a full smas FL/NL or deep plane in the U.K.! Lucky I turned 55 this year so I could get a FL in the U.K.! This may be why Katie Price went to Turkey! She had threads at age 39 and then a full FL at 40. To think in Korea they will do full FLs and deep plane in ladies 30+!


----------



## pie

I just looked up Katie Price bc I didn’t know who she was. Her recent work in Turkey looks pretty bad. I wonder why she elected to do a horizontal lift. From your pix and experience, it looks like a vertical lift is the only way to go!  Thanks so much for sharing your pix and experience.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 6 and the incisions are healing fast. Soon there will be no telltale signs I ever had a FL. My surgeon has been busy! He just did a brow and midface lift under local on U.K. Instagram blogger Claire Hobson yesterday! She has posted graphic surgery photos and posted videos of her loose skin before surgery and tight face after. She then drove home after the surgery! Amazing.

Tip for those getting facelifts. Do NOT lose weight after a facelift or your skin will sag more than before surgery. Make sure you are already at your optimum weight.


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange, thank you soooooo much for posting all the details and pictures, which are all incredibly informative.  You're healing very nicely, very nicely indeed!  If it were me, I think it'd take like a month to get to where you are after 6 days.  Is there anything special you're doing that's helping with the healing, other than drinking pineaapple juice and wearing the eBay mask?  Your swelling and brusing are practically non-existent!  Incredible!!  I am truly super happy for you.  Your jaws and chin are beeaaaaauuuuutiful!!


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , how old is this Claire Hobson?  He did a great job with her too.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , how old is this Claire Hobson?  He did a great job with her too.


She is 40. She is posting daily postop videos on her IG!


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange, thank you soooooo much for posting all the details and pictures, which are all incredibly informative.  You're healing very nicely, very nicely indeed!  If it were me, I think it'd take like a month to get to where you are after 6 days.  Is there anything special you're doing that's helping with the healing, other than drinking pineaapple juice and wearing the eBay mask?  Your swelling and brusing are practically non-existent!  Incredible!!  I am truly super happy for you.  Your jaws and chin are beeaaaaauuuuutiful!!


Hi @Lien spoke too soon! Lol. Both yesterday and today I awoke to swollen cheeks. My hair stylist today asked me “why did you have this done?” And a sales assistant asked me if I was alright?! lol. Yep swollen boxer cheeks do not look good. I need to go back to my photos from Jan 2020 to see how many days my face was swollen and do a countdown to end of cheek swelling. Looks like on the days I took 20 mg of prednisolone, the swelling went down and on the days I did not it has come back. I don’t want to depend on steroids to deswell so will wait this out with intermittent ice packs. Freedom day in the U.K. is no longer free of masks so I can hide behind a face mask beyond July 19.

Today’s photos on day 7 are again just of the incisions as my cheeks are HUGE! Lol. The neck bruising is shrinking with arnica cream.


----------



## MissOrange

This cracked me up! Bio clinic’s Dr Dongman Park has added a b&a using moles as a marker of the lifted face! But the after is of the lady smiling which gives a natural lift. A true b&a has a non smiling after face.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien spoke too soon! Lol. Both yesterday and today I awoke to swollen cheeks. My hair stylist today asked me “why did you have this done?” And a sales assistant asked me if I was alright?! lol. Yep swollen boxer cheeks do not look good. I need to go back to my photos from Jan 2020 to see how many days my face was swollen and do a countdown to end of cheek swelling. Looks like on the days I took 20 mg of prednisolone, the swelling went down and on the days I did not it has come back. I don’t want to depend on steroids to deswell so will wait this out with intermittent ice packs. Freedom day in the U.K. is no longer free of masks so I can hide behind a face mask beyond July 19.
> 
> Today’s photos on day 7 are again just of the incisions as my cheeks are HUGE! Lol. The neck bruising is shrinking with arnica cream.
> 
> View attachment 5134443
> 
> 
> View attachment 5134444



Ouch!! I hope the swelling subsides sooooooooon!! x


----------



## MissOrange

Day 8 and finally deswelling! Here are pics of day 1 vs swelling on day 7 and a separate photo this morning. Now waiting for my train to York for the hunt for the missing cut prolene stitch.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is an extreme b&a. This shows what happens when fat graft dissolves in the lower face. It is very traumatic but instead of flying to korea repeatedly I have broken the cycle and got a lower FL. Let this be a cautionary tale about FG to the lower face. Don't! My weight is the same in both photos and I am sat on a train to York today on the right.


----------



## Lien

Woooowza, @MissOrange !!  The difference is like day and night.  Anyhow, hope they locate the missing stitch.  Look forward to your update.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Woooowza, @MissOrange !!  The difference is like day and night.  Anyhow, hope they locate the missing stitch.  Look forward to your update.


Hi @Lien I am on the train back. He didn't see any prolene but did find a little loop at the top corner of my ear. He kept saying how I had healed really fast and had an observing consultant plastic surgeon with. He said I have set a precedent to remove sutures at 3 days! lol. I said no it's only because I have eczema that my skin heals fast. He remarked that he had a patient with psoriasis who also healed fast. I told his guest that Nick was the best FL surgeon and had made me look really young at ....55! Lol. Loved how his guest was taken by surprise.

They will be offering a choice of local or twilight iv sedation VR FLs from the end of July as they are hiring a consultant anaesthetist intensivist, preassessment nurse, scrub nurse, recovery room nurse etc or one can save the additional £3000 for 5 mins of needle pain under local.

Enjoyed a lovely Chinese lunch at the Red Chili restaurant in York before boarding the train.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien I am on the train back. He didn't see any prolene but did find a little loop at the top corner of my ear. He kept saying how I had healed really fast and had an observing consultant plastic surgeon with. He said I have set a precedent to remove sutures at 3 days! lol. I said no it's only because I have eczema that my skin heals fast. He remarked that he had a patient with psoriasis who also healed fast. I told his guest that Nick was the best FL surgeon and had made me look really young at ....55! Lol. Loved how his guest was taken by surprise.
> 
> They will be offering a choice of local or twilight iv sedation VR FLs from the end of July as they are hiring a consultant anaesthetist intensivist, preassessment nurse, scrub nurse, recovery room nurse etc or one can save the additional £3000 for 5 mins of needle pain under local.
> 
> Enjoyed a lovely Chinese lunch at the Red Chili restaurant in York before boarding the train.



LOVE your story! hahaha.  His guest must have been shocked!

I am soooo NOT gonna do it under local - too squeamish!  So glad that they're hiring an anaesthetist!! Thank you for the update!  Have an amazing day! x


----------



## MissOrange

Always had a natural v line jaw but it was hidden by sagging skin after the lower face fat graft dissolved...Love how the lower FL reveals my v line. No wonder many who get a surgical.v line end up needing a FL or threads. Just a bit of cheek swelling left to go down hopefully soon. You can see how the fat graft remains stable in my forehead and upper lids. This keeps the upper third of my face looking young. I think this trumps a brow lift which does not address loss of volume. The upper lid fat graft not only fills the eyelid hollowing but lifts the brow. I keep drawing brow pencil below my brows as sometimes I think they are too high! lol. Beats having a scar in the brows too. Haven't put on makeup yet as want to keep my face as clean and sterile as possible. Need to get past the 2 week mark to be clear of risk of postop infection. I have completed a week's course of antibiotics.


----------



## MissOrange

For ladies who can get away without a deep plane FL, Nick Rhodes is the cheapest in the UK. For £7445 with Nick one can get a VR FL, upper bleph and lip lift! Then his fat transfer to upper lids and forehead for £995 means for £8440 one can do a complete facial rejuvenation instead of still need a brow lift, and forehead botox for frown lines and 11's. He discounts upper bleph to £1500 if combined with his VR. We have to teach Nick to inject the upper lid hollows with fat graft and not the tear trough and to inject the forehead horizontal skull ridge along with the temples like they do in Korea to give the flat forehead a rounded youthful appearance.

I mentioned emla local anaesthetic cream but Orla said it would not penetrate deep enough to where the needles go. She did say they can give temazepam sleeping pill sedative beforehand if really anxious. See I forgot to take my sleeping pill in my bag!

Korea has competition in York! lol. For deep plane FLs Korea is still superior but costs $15-20k.


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , you're famous!

I am soooo going to see Nick Rhodes when I am back in the UK!


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , you're famous!
> 
> I am soooo going to see Nick Rhodes when I am back in the UK!


@Lien now I am. The collage I offered to Nick is live on his IG! I am officially a Nick babe. lol. Middle pic shows my cheeks are still a bit swollen but should be fine by next week when I doll up for my 28th wedding anniversary and finally match my lying down zero gravity face!


----------



## Lien

You're GORGEOUS, @MissOrange !!  A babe indeed!

28th, wowza!! CONGRATS!!


----------



## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> @Lien now I am. The collage I offered to Nick is live on his IG! I am officially a Nick babe. lol. Middle pic shows my cheeks are still a bit swollen but should be fine by next week when I doll up for my 28th wedding anniversary and finally match my lying down zero gravity face!
> 
> View attachment 5137293
> 
> 
> View attachment 5137296


Amazing miss orange. I was interested but apparently this facelift only concern jowl and I want to lift my middle face and neck also. Do you have any other surgeon to recommend for middle face and neck lift ?


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> You're GORGEOUS, @MissOrange !!  A babe indeed!
> 
> 28th, wowza!! CONGRATS!!


@Lien clearly I was married as a baby! Lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 10 had to doll up for a tv news interview tonight so here goes...my day 10 dolled up selfies!


----------



## MissOrange

Here is an excellent explanation of facial ageing! Meanwhile my golden ratio face age is now 18!


----------



## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> Amazing miss orange. I was interested but apparently this facelift only concern jowl and I want to lift my middle face and neck also. Do you have any other surgeon to recommend for middle face and neck lift ?


Hi @Pakune, for neck lift I recommend Charles Durrant. He charges approx £6k for neck lift day case under GA at a Nuffield hospital. He is a board certified plastic surgeon and trainer. Just saw one lady's b+a and she looks fab with hardly any swelling! Haven't researched midface FLs.


----------



## MissOrange

Here are 3 examples of lifting procedures. I tried full face fat transfer repeatedly but each time the fat melts or reabsorbs in the mid and lower face leaving me with a shocking ageing sagging 3D cuboid face (left pic). Fat transfer only gives temporary youth and lifting with volume so again only get in your upper third of your face where it holds well for a permanently rounded forehead when your forehead becomes flat or a horizontal brow ridge appears with temple hollowing. Then I tried 6 threads but it gave me an unnatural alien egg shaped face (centre pic). Finally I tried 2 suture vertical macs facelift  with excision of 5 cms of lower face skin which should last at least 5 years and have a young heart shaped face (right pic).


----------



## Tremere

@MissOrange I had my undereye hyaluronic acid dissolved yesterday because I'm having fat grafted to the lower eyelids. Has anyone had fat grafted to the upper eyelids?

Over a year ago, I had hyaluronic acid fillers placed in my temple and zygomatic bone area. I wonder if I should get them dissolved and instead have fat grafted to that area too. Or maybe HA is better for that area, as should mimick bone consistency.

Lastly, I'm pretty happy with my lip fillers, but I wonder if having fat grafted to my lips would be a better choice or it's better to not touch anything since I'm beyond happy.


----------



## MissOrange

Tremere said:


> @MissOrange I had my undereye hyaluronic acid dissolved yesterday because I'm having fat grafted to the lower eyelids. Has anyone had fat grafted to the upper eyelids?
> 
> Over a year ago, I had hyaluronic acid fillers placed in my temple and zygomatic bone area. I wonder if I should get them dissolved and instead have fat grafted to that area too. Or maybe HA is better for that area, as should mimick bone consistency.
> 
> Lastly, I'm pretty happy with my lip fillers, but I wonder if having fat grafted to my lips would be a better choice or it's better to not touch anything since I'm beyond happy.


Hi @Tremere, leave your lips alone. I had fat graft to my upper lids. I never tried lower lids. Interesting you had h.a. fillers to your temples and yes fat graft would be more permanent there.

I was watching the tv show 'I'm addicted to plastic surgery' following 3 people, one having threads, another a mini FL with platysmaplasty and another having a bbl. The one having a mini FL and neck was put in tight bandages for 2 weeks then seen in clinic for exchange of bandages! Maybe I should have worn my head compression garment for 2 weeks and not one?


----------



## K Couture

Tremere said:


> @MissOrange I had my undereye hyaluronic acid dissolved yesterday because I'm having fat grafted to the lower eyelids. Has anyone had fat grafted to the upper eyelids?
> 
> Over a year ago, I had hyaluronic acid fillers placed in my temple and zygomatic bone area. I wonder if I should get them dissolved and instead have fat grafted to that area too. Or maybe HA is better for that area, as should mimick bone consistency.
> 
> Lastly, I'm pretty happy with my lip fillers, but I wonder if having fat grafted to my lips would be a better choice or it's better to not touch anything since I'm beyond happy.



I havent had fg to the upper eyelids but ive had it above the brow. It just kept dying because of constant movement. The only thing that worked permanently for me is QO fill. Its been 4 years since Ive had it and its still there, zero frown fills still despite my age  

Though recently some clinics stopped using it. Im not sure why though. I will find out next time I'm in korea because I need some dissolved in my chin. Its a little, just a little too pointy for my liking since i went overboard with it. Fingers crossed it can be dissolved since they say its like a HA. But I have some doubts since it never disappeared even after 4 years. The clinic i did it at did however reassure me that it can. It works great for the forehead and upper brow region though lol.


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> I havent had fg to the upper eyelids but ive had it above the brow. It just kept dying because of constant movement. The only thing that worked permanently for me is QO fill. Its been 4 years since Ive had it and its still there, zero frown fills still despite my age
> 
> Though recently some clinics stopped using it. Im not sure why though. I will find out next time I'm in korea because I need some dissolved in my chin. Its a little, just a little too pointy for my liking since i went overboard with it. Fingers crossed it can be dissolved since they say its like a HA. But I have some doubts since it never disappeared even after 4 years. The clinic i did it at did however reassure me that it can. It works great for the forehead and upper brow region though lol.


Hi @K Couture, good that QO fill has worked in your upper eyelids. Filling the eyelid hollows really does make one look younger. I googled QO fill https://www.jivaka.care/qofill-filler/. In the U.K. profhilo (injectable H.A.) seems to be popular.


----------



## Gats

K Couture said:


> I havent had fg to the upper eyelids but ive had it above the brow. It just kept dying because of constant movement.



I'm not a fan of the totally frozen look from botox but that could help out with this problem, living with that look for a couple months in exchange for keeping the injected fat for years to come is a trade off I'd make.


----------



## K Couture

Gats said:


> I'm not a fan of the totally frozen look from botox but that could help out with this problem, living with that look for a couple months in exchange for keeping the injected fat for years to come is a trade off I'd make.


yeh soooo botox helped with it but when i did it i got a side effect lol. It made one brow drop lower than the other LOL. I had to use make up to draw my brows to make it look even. Curse of having an assymetrical face...makes this kind of treatment unpredictable at times


----------



## Tremere

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Tremere, leave your lips alone. I had fat graft to my upper lids. I never tried lower lids. Interesting you had h.a. fillers to your temples and yes fat graft would be more permanent there.



Yes, I think I will leave my lips alone. I've been told fat there is unpredictable and doesn't last long.

About my temples and zygoma bone, I feel like the filler used, Juvederm Voluma, it's much thicker than the fat, and it imitates bone consistency better. Since the purpose here is to simulate that I have some actual bone, and not try to combat ageing signs or filling in wrinkles. Does it make sense or should it get the filler dissolved and instead have fat grafted to the area?


----------



## Tremere

@MissOrange who do you recommend in Korea for face/neck lifts? I'm getting double jaw surgery and V-Line and I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a face/neck lift afterwards. Maybe Dr. Seo at Machimpyo? The head of Namu Clinic? I like Dr. Dongman Park at Bio Clinic but the deep face lift is out of my budget entirely. How much does Dr. Lee at ASPS ask for his face lift and what kind of face lift is it? Deep plane or SMAS? You said that the important thing was that it was a vertical lift, right, that the pull had to be vertical?

And in the UK? Dr. Nick Rhodes for face lift only, no neck lift? Dr. Harris for deep plane lift? Dr. Charles Durrant for neck lift? Isn't there one that can do both at the same time, face + neck lift? Dr. Vasu Karri for facial fat transfer?

Both Dr. Michele Pascali and Dr. Dirk Kremer are out of my budget. What do you think of Dr. Bert Oelbrandt?

And what do you think of forehead lifts? Are they a good idea?

Any recommendations for bullhorn lip lifts in the UK? And in Korea, are Hyundai and Deesse good clinics? I normally prefer individual surgeons than clinics.


----------



## MissOrange

I made a FL video on my instagram today on day 19 to show what a vertical vector FL looks like.


----------



## peachesandrose

MissOrange said:


> I made a FL video on my instagram today on day 19 to show what a vertical vector FL looks like.



Thank you so much for sharing this video! Your voice is so calming and lovely.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> I made a FL video on my instagram today on day 19 to show what a vertical vector FL looks like.



so i've seen this technique performed several times during a surgical training program by a korean surgeon. The korean surgeon was the one doing the teaching whilst the foreign surgeons observed. Out of the 7 patients 2 required the stitch to be resutured up around one week post op due to the incision site coming undone. It was a fairly simple resuturing though nothing major. But it did give the patients a scare. I have never observed patients undergoing the smas lift have that complication before. I spoke to Mendelson about it (he wasn't the surgeon) and apparently whilst the benefit of that technique is the shorter incision, the risks involved is due to the limited bunching effect and internal suturing due to nature of the technique. According to Mendelson the bunching and added internal suturing gives the tissues more hold and promote better healing when the traditional smas technique is used. Note the opening of the suture seems to have the risk of occuring during the one week mark. 2 weeks post op i think its totally good to go


----------



## MissOrange

peachesandrose said:


> Thank you so much for sharing this video! Your voice is so calming and lovely.


Thanks @peachesandrose, I have now figured out how to upload the entire 1:43 minute video by uploading to YouTube, lol. Still need to figure out how to navigate IG.


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> so i've seen this technique performed several times during a surgical training program by a korean surgeon. The korean surgeon was the one doing the teaching whilst the foreign surgeons observed. Out of the 7 patients 2 required the stitch to be resutured up around one week post op due to the incision site coming undone. It was a fairly simple resuturing though nothing major. But it did give the patients a scare. I have never observed patients undergoing the smas lift have that complication before. I spoke to Mendelson about it (he wasn't the surgeon) and apparently whilst the benefit of that technique is the shorter incision, the risks involved is due to the limited bunching effect and internal suturing due to nature of the technique. According to Mendelson the bunching and added internal suturing gives the tissues more hold and promote better healing when the traditional smas technique is used. Note the opening of the suture seems to have the risk of occuring during the one week mark. 2 weeks post op i think its totally good to go


Thanks @K Couture! You are the go to expert on facelifts on this site! I know the macs lift is the entry level FL for plastic surgeons learning how to do FLs and the 1 suture lift lasts 1-2 years and the 2 suture lift 5 years (I had this) and the original creator Tonnard used 3 sutures that lasted 7 years. I am working on the principle that as my rib rhino graft has held for over 5 years with the same pds sutures which dissolve in a year and are replaced by fibrosis and my chin is still being held up with pds sutures again over 5 years, then I know my body tends to form fibrosis over pds sutures and holds up the tissues or graft for over 5 years. I am hoping this FL holds for at least 5 years or longer as I also had 5 cms of skin in total trimmed which as long as I keep my weight stable cannot come back.

I did make sure not to open my mouth wide while it was healing as I could feel the pull on the sutures. I was still able to brush my teeth with my mouth closed and eat normal foods even though they say soft foods for 4 days postop. I just had to cut my whole strawberries in half as a whole one wouldn‘t fit unless I forced my mouth wide open which may then break the sutures. So as long as you can open enough to eat half a strawberry you can eat any foods. Or simply cut your food into bite size morsels.

For me I was more worried about forming a suture abscess as I think I left a fragment of permanent prolene in my left earlobe. I took doxycycline antibiotics and applied topical fusidic acid to the incision hole until it closed. Now that I am at 19 days, I can relax about any suture abscess which occurred at 2 weeks post my rib rhino 5 years ago. Perhaps my body has now formed fibrosis over the fragment of suture I left behind. The subcutaneous sutures are monocryl which dissolve in 6 weeks. As my skin heals fast, I took out my sutures early. Would not recommend others do this though but if you suffer from eczema or psoriasis it may be worth discussing early suture removal with your surgeon as our skin tends to heal much faster than normal.

Today I learned that the creator of the deep plane FL stopped doing deep plane FLs before he retired! Gosh even USA has brokers!


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Thanks @K Couture! You are the go to expert on facelifts on this site! I know the macs lift is the entry level FL for plastic surgeons learning how to do FLs and the 1 suture lift lasts 1-2 years and the 2 suture lift 5 years (I had this) and the original creator Tonnard used 3 sutures that lasted 7 years. I am working on the principle that as my rib rhino graft has held for over 5 years with the same pds sutures which dissolve in a year and are replaced by fibrosis and my chin is still being held up with pds sutures again over 5 years, then I know my body tends to form fibrosis over pds sutures and holds up the tissues or graft for over 5 years. I am hoping this FL holds for at least 5 years or longer as I also had 5 cms of skin in total trimmed which as long as I keep my weight stable cannot come back.
> 
> I did make sure not to open my mouth wide while it was healing as I could feel the pull on the sutures. I was still able to brush my teeth with my mouth closed and eat normal foods even though they say soft foods for 4 days postop. I just had to cut my whole strawberries in half as a whole one wouldn‘t fit unless I forced my mouth wide open which may then break the sutures. So as long as you can open enough to eat half a strawberry you can eat any foods. Or simply cut your food into bite size morsels.
> 
> For me I was more worried about forming a suture abscess as I think I left a fragment of permanent prolene in my left earlobe. I took doxycycline antibiotics and applied topical fusidic acid to the incision hole until it closed. Now that I am at 19 days, I can relax about any suture abscess which occurred at 2 weeks post my rib rhino 5 years ago. Perhaps my body has now formed fibrosis over the fragment of suture I left behind. The subcutaneous sutures are monocryl which dissolve in 6 weeks. As my skin heals fast, I took out my sutures early. Would not recommend others do this though but if you suffer from eczema or psoriasis it may be worth discussing early suture removal with your surgeon as our skin tends to heal much faster than normal.
> 
> Today I learned that the creator of the deep plane FL stopped doing deep plane FLs before he retired! Gosh even USA has brokers!
> 
> View attachment 5145602


Its not so much  the Macs lift that has this complication. Its more when its performed using the vertical vector since this technique seeks to manipulate additional tissue planes. Ah thats a good point actually. Excessive facial stretching can further increase the risk of suture tearing.

And yeh for the type of lifting you had it usually lasts 5 years. But I believe because you seem to have good tissue structure it should last longer. I was told by my facelift surgeon that ulthera helps increase the longevity of a lift but i just cbf doing it because I never notice much (if any)difference each time i do it. Mine was a smas lift and i actually requested mine to be pulled horizontally from the malar region deliberately because I know the smas lift can cause a slanty eye effect for people with more anterior projection like myself. My scars are not visible in the slightest though because it was done within the hairline not at (in front of). I opted for that because I wanted a lift that lasts 10 years and up since knowing myself, the moment i notice any sign of sagging i will rush to do something. And while repeated facelifts is fine, the incision site and form thicking scars the more you do it which could be difficult to conceal. Im such a junky the other day I counted I've literally done like 21 lots of surgeries over the years Sheessssh. Once the quarantine is no longer required ima fly to korea to do a forehead lift, not because Im sagging there but because my eyebrows are naturally lower, giving me resting betch face -_-/

I know Dr lee in Korea does the deep planes. Crazy expensive prices. A friend of mine paid like 25k-30k usd i believe to do it with similar results to a smas. She was kinda pissed after but at least she looks good now. Actually Mendelson who is a facelift master himself is also retiring by mid next year. Dude is ancient now too lol. He was meant to retire last year but due to covid he decided to extend it.

All the best with your recovery x


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , thank you sooo much for posting the video. I love it!!  I must say other than the obvious fact that you're super young looking, your skin is amaaaazing!!  What skincare do you use please?


----------



## MissOrange

Have now dolled up. Yay what a difference! Love the v line. Now why didn't I do this sooner? Who gets their first FL at 55! lol.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , thank you sooo much for posting the video. I love it!!  I must say other than the obvious fact that you're super young looking, your skin is amaaaazing!!  What skincare do you use please?


Hi @Lien here is a photo of my skincare. It is literally 2 things....clinique facial scrub instead of soap and lidl's cien moisturising cream with Q10 and collagen. Another tip is to ask for doxycycline as your postop antibiotic as it prevents postop skin infections and treats acne! Not that I have acne but it seems to give me amazing skin after a week's postop use.


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> Its not so much  the Macs lift that has this complication. Its more when its performed using the vertical vector since this technique seeks to manipulate additional tissue planes. Ah thats a good point actually. Excessive facial stretching can further increase the risk of suture tearing.
> 
> And yeh for the type of lifting you had it usually lasts 5 years. But I believe because you seem to have good tissue structure it should last longer. I was told by my facelift surgeon that ulthera helps increase the longevity of a lift but i just cbf doing it because I never notice much (if any)difference each time i do it. Mine was a smas lift and i actually requested mine to be pulled horizontally from the malar region deliberately because I know the smas lift can cause a slanty eye effect for people with more anterior projection like myself. My scars are not visible in the slightest though because it was done within the hairline not at (in front of). I opted for that because I wanted a lift that lasts 10 years and up since knowing myself, the moment i notice any sign of sagging i will rush to do something. And while repeated facelifts is fine, the incision site and form thicking scars the more you do it which could be difficult to conceal. Im such a junky the other day I counted I've literally done like 21 lots of surgeries over the years Sheessssh. Once the quarantine is no longer required ima fly to korea to do a forehead lift, not because Im sagging there but because my eyebrows are naturally lower, giving me resting betch face -_-/
> 
> I know Dr lee in Korea does the deep planes. Crazy expensive prices. A friend of mine paid like 25k-30k usd i believe to do it with similar results to a smas. She was kinda pissed after but at least she looks good now. Actually Mendelson who is a facelift master himself is also retiring by mid next year. Dude is ancient now too lol. He was meant to retire last year but due to covid he decided to extend it.
> 
> All the best with your recovery x


Wow @K Couture, you are younger than I am and have had so much done. When I heard the world record was 50, I counted up my ops and am too embarrassed to declare the total! lol. To be fair half were complications like implant ruptures, leaks or infections. 

I see your point about the vertical vector pulling through more planes. I like how Dr Amir Karam opts for the vertical vector but I can't afford US prices. You were wise to get a smas FL as yes they last a decade. After the threads fright face, I wanted to try a mini FL in case I didn't like the results. I couldn't face being stuck with an overpulled face for a decade! 

I shall wait to my 60s to try a full smas lift or deep plane but won't spend more than $15k. 

A lot of my kakao friends are dying to know what you look like as you are quite the icon in this forum! Hopefully one day we shall all see your amazing reveal. x


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien here is a photo of my skincare. It is literally 2 things....clinique facial scrub instead of soap and lidl's cien moisturising cream with Q10 and collagen. Another tip is to ask for doxycycline as your postop antibiotic as it prevents postop skin infections and treats acne! Not that I have acne but it seems to give me amazing skin after a week's postop use.



Clinique facial scrub, huh?  I will try that.  I've yet to find a cleanser that I like.  I used to have one but they discontinued it.

Cien Vitality Regenerative Day Cream?  Do you not use a separate eye cream? 

I can't believe your skincare routine is so simple!  You must be blessed with amazing genes.


----------



## harlequindolly

deleted


----------



## Hautelady

K Couture said:


> Its not so much  the Macs lift that has this complication. Its more when its performed using the vertical vector since this technique seeks to manipulate additional tissue planes. Ah thats a good point actually. Excessive facial stretching can further increase the risk of suture tearing.
> 
> And yeh for the type of lifting you had it usually lasts 5 years. But I believe because you seem to have good tissue structure it should last longer. I was told by my facelift surgeon that ulthera helps increase the longevity of a lift but i just cbf doing it because I never notice much (if any)difference each time i do it. Mine was a smas lift and i actually requested mine to be pulled horizontally from the malar region deliberately because I know the smas lift can cause a slanty eye effect for people with more anterior projection like myself. My scars are not visible in the slightest though because it was done within the hairline not at (in front of). I opted for that because I wanted a lift that lasts 10 years and up since knowing myself, the moment i notice any sign of sagging i will rush to do something. And while repeated facelifts is fine, the incision site and form thicking scars the more you do it which could be difficult to conceal. Im such a junky the other day I counted I've literally done like 21 lots of surgeries over the years Sheessssh. Once the quarantine is no longer required ima fly to korea to do a forehead lift, not because Im sagging there but because my eyebrows are naturally lower, giving me resting betch face -_-/
> 
> I know Dr lee in Korea does the deep planes. Crazy expensive prices. A friend of mine paid like 25k-30k usd i believe to do it with similar results to a smas. She was kinda pissed after but at least she looks good now. Actually Mendelson who is a facelift master himself is also retiring by mid next year. Dude is ancient now too lol. He was meant to retire last year but due to covid he decided to extend it.
> 
> All the best with your recovery x


Omg @K Couture (I got notified you’re active here, your fan obviously). I think I need that QO fill, can I pm you on which clinic you got it?  Since you got the SMAS FL inside the hairline, did it not kill like thousands of hair follicles? Thinning hair is already my problem, did you have to get hair transplant or PRP? Can you discuss on your facelift thread the different types of FL good for moon-face faces, and the types of browlifting PLEASE like I heard those that slices and pins to the upper brow bone?

@MissOrange , congrats on your worry-free FL recovery. Your nasolabial folds are gone. I read that you had your cheek fat pads removed , hence the extra skin. 
Was that a major surgery or awake surgery? 
And these fibrosis around threads, do they feel like lumps?


----------



## K Couture

Hautelady said:


> Omg @K Couture (I got notified you’re active here, your fan obviously). I think I need that QO fill, can I pm you on which clinic you got it?  Since you got the SMAS FL inside the hairline, did it not kill like thousands of hair follicles? Thinning hair is already my problem, did you have to get hair transplant or PRP? Can you discuss on your facelift thread the different types of FL good for moon-face faces, and the types of browlifting PLEASE like I heard those that slices and pins to the upper brow bone?



The clinic I did QO fill at no longer uses it. Not sure why though. But there's several other clinics that still use it. I wouldnt recommend it for anywhere other than the forehead though since its semi permanent despite being branded as a HA which can be dissolved. Obviously something else doing on with it lol.....I do know that filler is alot harder than Juvederm Restalyn as I could feel the granules whilst it was stabilizing in my forehead the first 3 days post injection. 

I didn't lose much hair from the SMAS lift. Plus it was from the hairline at the back of the ear not the top of my head, which is what really matters. The hair i lost grew back anyway. I did another random procedure (not a lifting procedure to be clear) a year later where the scrub nurses used betamine to disinfect my hair. I was actually supermad when they did that because my procedure didn't even involve any incisions near the hair line! But at the time I didn't know it was betadine and they said its part of their protocol. They just said its a hair wash to disinfect so I didnt think much of it. It smelt awful though. And guess what? The betamine is so corrosive i lost about 30 percent of my hair the first 2 weeks post op. I had to use medication to regrow it and its still not back to what it used to be. I did my fair share of cussing at management I was incredibly angry. Ever since then any clinic i go to for surgery I've always warned them not to use betadine on me and clearly stated I do not consent to betadine being used. That's my way of being like, use that on me without my consent and I will make sure you are legally liable. Note that many clinics use that stuff to disinfect the patient's hair for certain procedures so you should definitely make sure before hand.


----------



## MissOrange

Hautelady said:


> Omg @K Couture (I got notified you’re active here, your fan obviously). I think I need that QO fill, can I pm you on which clinic you got it?  Since you got the SMAS FL inside the hairline, did it not kill like thousands of hair follicles? Thinning hair is already my problem, did you have to get hair transplant or PRP? Can you discuss on your facelift thread the different types of FL good for moon-face faces, and the types of browlifting PLEASE like I heard those that slices and pins to the upper brow bone?
> 
> @MissOrange , congrats on your worry-free FL recovery. Your nasolabial folds are gone. I read that you had your cheek fat pads removed , hence the extra skin.
> Was that a major surgery or awake surgery?
> And these fibrosis around threads, do they feel like lumps?


Hi @Hautelady, the extra skin was from 5 facial fat transfers (2 full and 3 top ups) that overfilled and stretched my face as they assume 50% will reabsorb, combined with the fact that the fat transfer then reabsorbed in the lower face each time as we move our mouths too much for it to stay put.

It was awake surgery under local and lasted 2.5 hours. I am still numb in front of my ears. Hope the sensation returns. I feel little lumps under the skin where the sutures pulling the smas are tied to the temporalis fascia at the top corner of my ears. If I yawn, I can feel the tightness in the temporalis fascia where the sutures are. This reassures me that the sutures are still intact. The pds sutures will dissolve in 180 days and be replaced by fibrosis so it is early days to notice any fibrosis which should start at 3 months.


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> The clinic I did QO fill at no longer uses it. Not sure why though. But there's several other clinics that still use it. I wouldnt recommend it for anywhere other than the forehead though since its semi permanent despite being branded as a HA which can be dissolved. Obviously something else doing on with it lol.....I do know that filler is alot harder than Juvederm Restalyn as I could feel the granules whilst it was stabilizing in my forehead the first 3 days post injection.
> 
> I didn't lose much hair from the SMAS lift. Plus it was from the hairline at the back of the ear not the top of my head, which is what really matters. The hair i lost grew back anyway. I did another random procedure (not a lifting procedure to be clear) a year later where the scrub nurses used betamine to disinfect my hair. I was actually supermad when they did that because my procedure didn't even involve any incisions near the hair line! But at the time I didn't know it was betadine and they said its part of their protocol. They just said its a hair wash to disinfect so I didnt think much of it. It smelt awful though. And guess what? The betamine is so corrosive i lost about 30 percent of my hair the first 2 weeks post op. I had to use medication to regrow it and its still not back to what it used to be. I did my fair share of cussing at management I was incredibly angry. Ever since then any clinic i go to for surgery I've always warned them not to use betadine on me and clearly stated I do not consent to betadine being used. That's my way of being like, use that on me without my consent and I will make sure you are legally liable. Note that many clinics use that stuff to disinfect the patient's hair for certain procedures so you should definitely make sure before hand.


Sorry to hear this @K Couture. Just say you are allergic to betadine. They can use chlorhexidine instead which is a milder surgical disinfectant in future.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Hautelady, the extra skin was from 5 facial fat transfers (2 full and 3 top ups) that overfilled and stretched my face as they assume 50% will reabsorb, combined with the fact that the fat transfer then reabsorbed in the lower face each time as we move our mouths too much for it to stay put.
> 
> It was awake surgery under local and lasted 2.5 hours. I am still numb in front of my ears. Hope the sensation returns. I feel little lumps under the skin where the sutures pulling the smas are tied to the temporalis fascia at the top corner of my ears. If I yawn, I can feel the tightness in the temporalis fascia where the sutures are. This reassures me that the sutures are still intact. The pds sutures will dissolve in 180 days and be replaced by fibrosis so it is early days to notice any fibrosis which should start at 3 months.



whattttt you did it under local anesthesia? Miss thang................you are brave. I did a thread lift years ago under local and feeling the threads pull and grind at my tissues freaked me out, and thats minor to do with you did :O. Werent you scared?


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , are you taking any collagen?  I read with threads, you have to take collagen to help strengthen the "structure", or whatever the technical explantion is! lol

If you are, when do you take it, at what time period post-op and how much?


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> whattttt you did it under local anesthesia? Miss thang................you are brave. I did a thread lift years ago under local and feeling the threads pull and grind at my tissues freaked me out, and thats minor to do with you did :O. Werent you scared?


Hi @K Couture, yes I was scared for the first 5 minutes as the pain from the deep needles was excruciating and then came the pressure of the cannulas being tunnelled under my skin, followed by the gushing sound of tumescent fluid being poured into my face and later repeated for the other side. But once in the feeling and pain went. I kept saying no way can I do this again. It is like childbirth. Now he offers twilight iv sedation but that adds up to £3k to the cost.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , are you taking any collagen?  I read with threads, you have to take collagen to help strengthen the "structure", or whatever the technical explantion is! lol
> 
> If you are, when do you take it, at what time period post-op and how much?


Hi @Lien, I had my threads removed next day last year. The FL was with pds absorbable sutures. No I don't take collagen.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture, yes I was scared for the first 5 minutes as the pain from the deep needles was excruciating and then came the pressure of the cannulas being tunnelled under my skin, followed by the gushing sound of tumescent fluid being poured into my face and later repeated for the other side. But once in the feeling and pain went. I kept saying no way can I do this again. It is like childbirth. Now he offers twilight iv sedation but that adds up to £3k to the cost.


 
omg that was the same with me when i did my threads lol. I was like....im a dumb ass for insisting on doing it without sedation when it was FREE haha


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien, I had my threads removed next day last year*. The FL was with pds absorbable sutures*. No I don't take collagen.



Oh yes, you did say that.  I forgot.  My bad.

Thanks for responding, @MissOrange . 

Btw, I am following you on IG.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture, yes I was scared for the first 5 minutes as the pain from the deep needles was excruciating and then came the pressure of the cannulas being tunnelled under my skin, followed by the gushing sound of tumescent fluid being poured into my face and later repeated for the other side. But once in the feeling and pain went. I kept saying no way can I do this again. It is like childbirth. Now he offers twilight iv sedation but that adds up to £3k to the cost.



You're sooo brave, @MissOrange , I am soooo gonna have twilight IV sedation! No way jose would I do local!


----------



## Lien

K Couture said:


> omg that was the same with me when i did my threads lol. I was like....im a dumb ass for* insisting on doing it without sedation when it was FREE* haha



Why did you refuse the sedation, if I may ask?


----------



## K Couture

Lien said:


> Why did you refuse the sedation, if I may ask?



I was short of time that day and just wanted to get it over and done with quickly. With sedation you gotta stay for like two at least until its out of your system then you can leave. With local anesthesia you can just walk out. 

Also i hate needles in my arm. I dont mind it my face lol


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Why did you refuse the sedation, if I may ask?


Hi @Lien and @K Couture I had threads under iv twilight sedation but awoke to excruciating pain that lasted until I had them taken out. The FL under local with 5 mins of pain on each side was nothing compared to the worst 24 hours of pain from threads. The pain scares me off a full smas or deep plane FL.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Oh yes, you did say that.  I forgot.  My bad.
> 
> Thanks for responding, @MissOrange .
> 
> Btw, I am following you on IG.


Hi @Lien, requested to follow you too! x


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> I was short of time that day and just wanted to get it over and done with quickly. With sedation you gotta stay for like two at least until its out of your system then you can leave. With local anesthesia you can just walk out.
> 
> Also i hate needles in my arm. I dont mind it my face lol


Hi @K Couture, yes the advantages of local is no nausea or drowsiness. Are you on instagram? Would love to follow you. The number of plastic surgery ops I have had is 35 but I am 55 so it is more like 1-2 per year as I started in my 30s and some were revisions or implant exchanges for rupture, leaks or infection.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture, yes *the advantages of local is no nausea or drowsiness*. Are you on instagram? Would love to follow you. The number of plastic surgery ops I have had is 35 but I am 55 so it is more like 1-2 per year as I started in my 30s and some were revisions or implant exchanges for rupture, leaks or infection.



That is sooo true.  I HATE the nausea and drowsiness post-op associated with sedation/anaesthesia! Ugh


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , do you happen to know anyone in the UK who's great at facial fat transfer? I am due to go home to visit my elderly father and rest of the fam, maybe next year if not later this year.  I'd like to do my forehead.  The rest of my face is ok but my forehead is looking a bit wrinkly and bony and my temples hollowing.


----------



## Dilya

MissOrange said:


> @Tremere, Dr Dongman Park at the Bio clinic does extended deep plane FL for $15,000-$20,000 and has outstanding b&a results on Instagram. If there were no covid quarantine for arrivals to Korea, I would say fly to Korea. There is also Dr Lee at *ASPS *in Korea renowned for facelifts and a real Asian American lady posted her journey with Dr Lee on this forum.
> 
> If you cannot wait for Korea to open to foreigners without mandatory quarantine, then best to explore surgeons local to you. I have not found a patient of Dr Karri’s to chat with and in my opinion his photos are not as good as Dr Park or Dr Lee. But if cost is an issue, then he is the cheapest for deep plane at £7500.
> 
> Dr Michele Pascali in Rome has good Instagram results for deep plane facelift for around €15,000.


Hello MissOrange!!! First of, really happy with your results of FL = very very amazing beautiful results!!! Was smiling happy when saw the final results and seeing the progress of your great recovery with every new picture...

I have been reading about facial fat graft: heard good words on fat grafting in ASPS clinic, but I am not sure if it was about fat grafting there, or only FL good results in Seoul?!?
If yes whom would you personally recommend on facial fat grafting, or might be you would give a reference to site of ASPS clinic?
I've read the longest facial fat grafting results are after fat grafting with autologous stem cells, was it again mentioned in ASPS?


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien and @K Couture I had threads under iv twilight sedation but awoke to excruciating pain that lasted until I had them taken out. The FL under local with 5 mins of pain on each side was nothing compared to the worst 24 hours of pain from threads. The pain scares me off a full smas or deep plane FL.


Dominic Bray turns an ugly duckling into the Duchess of Sussex. Jacono and Bray do FLs under local anaesthetic alone. Bray: However, as this is comprehensive deep plane surgery it is never rushed and can take up to 4 hours. That is a long time to lie in one position so I prefer to make the time pass comfortably for my patients with a little sedation.


----------



## MissOrange

I have made a youtube video of my one month post vertical VR macs facelift. Loving my v line and I didn't have to get my jaw cut in Korea!


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , do you happen to know anyone in the UK who's great at facial fat transfer? I am due to go home to visit my elderly father and rest of the fam, maybe next year if not later this year.  I'd like to do my forehead.  The rest of my face is ok but my forehead is looking a bit wrinkly and bony and my temples hollowing.


Hi @Lien you must say Hi when you are in the U.K.! Yes, Vasu Karri of the Karri Clinic in Hull seems to be good at facial fat transfer. Here is a lady of his he suggested fat transfer instead of a facelift and she looks fab.


----------



## MissOrange

Dilya said:


> Hello MissOrange!!! First of, really happy with your results of FL = very very amazing beautiful results!!! Was smiling happy when saw the final results and seeing the progress of your great recovery with every new picture...
> 
> I have been reading about facial fat graft: heard good words on fat grafting in ASPS clinic, but I am not sure if it was about fat grafting there, or only FL good results in Seoul?!?
> If yes whom would you personally recommend on facial fat grafting, or might be you would give a reference to site of ASPS clinic?
> I've read the longest facial fat grafting results are after fat grafting with autologous stem cells, was it again mentioned in ASPS?


Hi @Dilya, I only know Dr Lee at ASPS is good at facelifts. Haven’t heard anything about their fat grafts. I have only had experience with fat grafts at DAPRS clinic and with Dr Seo when he was at MVP but he is now at his own Machimpyo clinic.


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Dominic Bray turns an ugly duckling into the Duchess of Sussex. Jacono and Bray do FLs under local anaesthetic alone. Bray: However, as this is comprehensive deep plane surgery it is never rushed and can take up to 4 hours. That is a long time to lie in one position so I prefer to make the time pass comfortably for my patients with a little sedation.


Hi @Transformation2021 are you sure it is just local? Surely they must use twilight IV sedation to dissect into the deep plane? The b&a also shows this DB lady had a rhinoplasty and lip lift which also reversed her aging. I wonder who did her rhinoplasty and lip lift. The rhinoplasty looks good and like many Korean actresses, a bigger Western straight nose can actually make the face appear even smaller! I can’t afford DB’s current £29,500 price for a FL/NL and platysmaplasty so I am super happy with my £3495 vertical vector macs facelift instead.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien you must say Hi when you are in the U.K.! Yes, Vasu Karri of the Karri Clinic in Hull seems to be good at facial fat transfer. Here is a lady of his he suggested fat transfer instead of a facelift and she looks fab.



That's SHOCKINGLY good!!  She looks like an entirely different person.

I'm just needing my forehead done.  I have a fairly fat face already (didn't lose much baby fat, haha).

I will_ definitely_ say hi.  Would love to meet up with you. 

Thank you, @MissOrange .


----------



## Pakune

Transformation2021 said:


> Dominic Bray turns an ugly duckling into the Duchess of Sussex. Jacono and Bray do FLs under local anaesthetic alone. Bray: However, as this is comprehensive deep plane surgery it is never rushed and can take up to 4 hours. That is a long time to lie in one position so I prefer to make the time pass comfortably for my patients with a little sedation.


Jacono is very expensive


----------



## Transformation2021

Pakune said:


> Jacono is very expensive


Sure is, USD75,000 for face and necklift.


----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> Dominic Bray turns an ugly duckling into the Duchess of Sussex. *Jacono and Bray do FLs under local anaesthetic alone*. Bray: However, as this is comprehensive deep plane surgery it is never rushed and can take up to 4 hours. That is a long time to lie in one position so I prefer to make the time pass comfortably for my patients with a little sedation.



You serious?!!  I get heart palpitations thinking of this!

I should think some IV sedation would be preferable, if not required (at least for me).


----------



## Pakune

Transformation2021 said:


> Sure is, USD75,000 for face and necklift.


Did you contact him ? 
his results are very impressive for sure


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> You serious?!!  I get heart palpitations thinking of this!
> 
> I should think some IV sedation would be preferable, if not required (at least for me).


Hi @Lien I checked his website and it is twilight anaesthesia. It says awake facelift under local but it also says we give a sedative too so not asleep and not awake?


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a photo of me at 1 month post vertical VR macs FL. I should have had this done at age 50! I can literally eat anything now and not have to drink lots of water to inflate my face before a night out!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien I checked his website and it is twilight anaesthesia. It says awake facelift under local but it also says we give a sedative too so not asleep and not awake?



Sounds like twilight IV anaesthesia. Again, I wouldn't want to be totally awake! OMG.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Here is a photo of me at 1 month post vertical VR macs FL. I should have had this done at age 50! I can literally eat anything now and not have to drink lots of water to inflate my face before a night out!
> 
> View attachment 5158144
> 
> 
> View attachment 5158145
> 
> 
> View attachment 5158146



Looking great, @MissOrange .


----------



## Pakune

MissOrange said:


> Here is a photo of me at 1 month post vertical VR macs FL. I should have had this done at age 50! I can literally eat anything now and not have to drink lots of water to inflate my face before a night out!
> 
> View attachment 5158144
> 
> 
> View attachment 5158145
> 
> 
> View attachment 5158146


Amazing 
Can you show the scars please ?


----------



## MissOrange

Pakune said:


> Amazing
> Can you show the scars please ?


Hi @Pakune,

Here is a better pic for scars...


----------



## MissOrange

For those who forgot how I looked like before, here I am outside the clinic for my free one hour consultation appointment with Nick Rhodes on June 19 next to my 1 month post last week after a £3495 vertical VR macs suspension facelift (following Professor Tonnard’s technique) on July 5. Nick posted on IG that it should last 4-10 years. As my weight is stable and I do not smoke, try to avoid the sun and drink very little, I am hoping this lasts the full 10 years! I love how my face looks smaller! I wish I had this done at 50. Could have enjoyed a life without watching my diet, water intake, salt intake, cake intake... Removing 5 cms of loose facial skin is a lot! And I love my v line smas lift. Remember if you get too many fat grafts that expand your face or any bone contour surgery that makes you lose the bony scaffold for your soft tissues and skin, the need for a facelift is a given. And you don’t need to spend £29k or $120k! Remember like breast implants are not for life, so is a facelift. You need to save every decade for an affordable facelift.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> For those who forgot how I looked like before, here I am outside the clinic for my free one hour consultation appointment with Nick Rhodes on June 19 next to my 1 month post last week after a £3495 vertical VR macs suspension facelift (following Professor Tonnard’s technique) on July 5. Nick posted on IG that it should last 4-10 years. As my weight is stable and I do not smoke, try to avoid the sun and drink very little, I am hoping this lasts the full 10 years! I love how my face looks smaller! I wish I had this done at 50. Could have enjoyed a life without watching my diet, water intake, salt intake, cake intake... Removing 5 cms of loose facial skin is a lot! And I love my v line smas lift. Remember if you get too many fat grafts that expand your face or any bone contour surgery that makes you lose the bony scaffold for your soft tissues and skin, the need for a facelift is a given. And you don’t need to spend £29k or $120k! Remember like breast implants are not for life, so is a facelift. You need to save every decade for an affordable facelift.
> 
> View attachment 5158267



I've seen these pics before but still am astounded to see them side by side.


----------



## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> Its not so much  the Macs lift that has this complication. Its more when its performed using the vertical vector since this technique seeks to manipulate additional tissue planes. Ah thats a good point actually. Excessive facial stretching can further increase the risk of suture tearing.
> 
> And yeh for the type of lifting you had it usually lasts 5 years. But I believe because you seem to have good tissue structure it should last longer. I was told by my facelift surgeon that ulthera helps increase the longevity of a lift but i just cbf doing it because I never notice much (if any)difference each time i do it. Mine was a smas lift and i actually requested mine to be pulled horizontally from the malar region deliberately because I know the smas lift can cause a slanty eye effect for people with more anterior projection like myself. My scars are not visible in the slightest though because it was done within the hairline not at (in front of). I opted for that because I wanted a lift that lasts 10 years and up since knowing myself, the moment i notice any sign of sagging i will rush to do something. And while repeated facelifts is fine, the incision site and form thicking scars the more you do it which could be difficult to conceal. Im such a junky the other day I counted I've literally done like 21 lots of surgeries over the years Sheessssh. Once the quarantine is no longer required ima fly to korea to do a forehead lift, not because Im sagging there but because my eyebrows are naturally lower, giving me resting betch face -_-/
> 
> I know Dr lee in Korea does the deep planes. Crazy expensive prices. A friend of mine paid like 25k-30k usd i believe to do it with similar results to a smas. She was kinda pissed after but at least she looks good now. Actually Mendelson who is a facelift master himself is also retiring by mid next year. Dude is ancient now too lol. He was meant to retire last year but due to covid he decided to extend it.
> 
> All the best with your recovery x


Talking about browlifts. Here's one of the best by your fav surgeon


----------



## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> Talking about browlifts. Here's one of the best by your fav surgeon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5158802


i would totally do my forehead lift with him if i didnt have to pay 30k LOL. Also he is one year away from retiring and i dunno how id feel letting a surgeon that old operate on me. When he did my concentric malar lift it was like more than 13 years ago!


----------



## Mimmiesmama

@Ms Orange….Omg .You look amazing…as always. Just in time I have been obsessively following Dr Jacono ..would have to sell a body part to afford him Your results are fantastic. Was this a skin only vertical face lift/ mini lift or a smas lift? Sorry to make you repeat yourself if you already mentioned it.


----------



## actuallyacat

@MissOrange you look amazing! Your jawline is so sharp omg. And the price was so reasonable too! Idk why some Hollywood stars look so fake with all their millions and access to expensive surgeons (cough-cast of Friends at the reunion-cough) when you've managed to look so young with surgeons who don't overcharge. That's a real skill, researching what procedures to get, which surgeons.

I just finished reading this entire thread btw, took me weeks lol! I learned so much. My favorite pics in this entire thread were those side-by-side pics of you looking down with your loose jawline before and super-tight jawline after. Incredible!

I'm in my mid-30s and I got undereye fat repositioning 3 years ago, which really helped because my eyebags were starting to get pretty bad. I was considering getting a full face fat graft next but now I'm thinking... maybe just the temple and forehead. What do you suggest for the mid & lower face when a face lift isn't necessary yet?


----------



## MissOrange

Mimmiesmama said:


> @Ms Orange….Omg .You look amazing…as always. Just in time I have been obsessively following Dr Jacono ..would have to sell a body part to afford him Your results are fantastic. Was this a skin only vertical face lift/ mini lift or a smas lift? Sorry to make you repeat yourself if you already mentioned it.


Don’t sell your kidney @Mimmiesmama! Lol. I object to paying anything over £15,000/$20k for a deep plane facelift. Mine was a vertical facelift that lifted the smas with 2 pds sutures instead of smas imbrication (trim the smas and then resuture together) or smas plication (fold and sew over the smas). I figured that as my rib cartilage is being held in place by pds sutures which then get replaced by fibrosis and as my chin is held up with pds sutures and they have both held for over 5 years and counting, Professor Tonnard’s macs suspension, ie lifting the smas layer with pds sutures and trimming off skin makes sense. His patients he followed up for 7 years and it still held. A smas facelift can hold for 5-10 years but you have to pay £12-15k. So I figured as Dr Rhodes charges much less for a macs lift which also lifts the smas layer and lasts 4-10 years, it makes sense to go with Dr Rhodes. I think because it is a macs lift, there is a limit to how much a plastic surgeon may charge and that by telling ladies they all need deep planes, some plastic surgeons can charge a fortune and get rich quick! Yet deep plane FL has not been around for 10 years. So who knows if it lasts 15 years? Our facial bones continue to shrink and reabsorb as we age. No facelift can hold forever with eye sockets enlargening, and zygoma, maxilla and mandible shrinking.


----------



## MissOrange

actuallyacat said:


> @MissOrange you look amazing! Your jawline is so sharp omg. And the price was so reasonable too! Idk why some Hollywood stars look so fake with all their millions and access to expensive surgeons (cough-cast of Friends at the reunion-cough) when you've managed to look so young with surgeons who don't overcharge. That's a real skill, researching what procedures to get, which surgeons.
> 
> I just finished reading this entire thread btw, took me weeks lol! I learned so much. My favorite pics in this entire thread were those side-by-side pics of you looking down with your loose jawline before and super-tight jawline after. Incredible!
> 
> I'm in my mid-30s and I got undereye fat repositioning 3 years ago, which really helped because my eyebags were starting to get pretty bad. I was considering getting a full face fat graft next but now I'm thinking... maybe just the temple and forehead. What do you suggest for the mid & lower face when a face lift isn't necessary yet?


Hi @actuallyacat well done on reading the entire thread! Yes the dramatic b&a side by side comparisons are always the best to look at. My face has changed so much that I am going through another identity crisis again. I think go for fat transfer in the upper lids, temples and forehead and either wait to get a lower FL or use fillers in the nasolabial folds. Here is a side by side of fat transfer July 2020 5 months post fat transfer in Korea Jan 2020 vs August 2021 a month after a facelift. You can see that they give different results and that a lower facelift makes one look older than fat transfer as it creates that sharp v line. The downside of fat transfer is when the lower face fat transfer disappears and the lower face then sags +++. It is quite shocking and unless you can get back to the clinic for a top up, it becomes a revolving door as you keep needing to go back or drink ++++ water to reinflate the face.


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> i would totally do my forehead lift with him if i didnt have to pay 30k LOL. Also he is one year away from retiring and i dunno how id feel letting a surgeon that old operate on me. When he did my concentric malar lift it was like more than 13 years ago!


@K Couture no way would I pay $30k for a brow or forehead lift! OMG! Prices in the US are crazy!


----------



## actuallyacat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @actuallyacat well done on reading the entire thread! Yes the dramatic b&a side by side comparisons are always the best to look at. My face has changed so much that I am going through another identity crisis again. I think go for fat transfer in the upper lids, temples and forehead and either wait to get a lower FL or use fillers in the nasolabial folds. Here is a side by side of fat transfer July 2020 5 months post fat transfer in Korea Jan 2020 vs August 2021 a month after a facelift. You can see that they give different results and that a lower facelift makes one look older than fat transfer as it creates that sharp v line. The downside of fat transfer is when the lower face fat transfer disappears and the lower face then sags +++. It is quite shocking and unless you can get back to the clinic for a top up, it becomes a revolving door as you keep needing to go back or drink ++++ water to reinflate the face.
> 
> View attachment 5159851



Ohh I see what you mean. Fat graft makes you look like you're so young you haven't lost all your baby fat yet. Did you find that fat grafts accelerated/contributed to your skin sagging, or was the fat graft only temporarily hiding the sagging that was already there which reappeared once the fat was reabsorbed? 

I notice you never got anything done specifically for the undereye, whereas that's the part that showed the first sign of aging for me. Luckily for me, the nasolabial folds aren't an issue... not yet anyway lol I'm worried about the cheeks becoming more hollow over the years though. Do you think fat graft or filler would be better for that area?

PS if you're still trying to up your water intake, my trick is to drink one cup when I wake up, plus before and after a meal. Since I typically eat 2 meals a day that means 5 cups just from building that habit into my day, not to mention coffee, tea, soup... I find it's pretty easy to hit approximately 8 cups a day, which I've had to do since I'm on isotretinoin (adult acne--fun) and get cracked lips if I don't hydrate enough.


----------



## MissOrange

actuallyacat said:


> Ohh I see what you mean. Fat graft makes you look like you're so young you haven't lost all your baby fat yet. Did you find that fat grafts accelerated/contributed to your skin sagging, or was the fat graft only temporarily hiding the sagging that was already there which reappeared once the fat was reabsorbed?
> 
> I notice you never got anything done specifically for the undereye, whereas that's the part that showed the first sign of aging for me. Luckily for me, the nasolabial folds aren't an issue... not yet anyway lol I'm worried about the cheeks becoming more hollow over the years though. Do you think fat graft or filler would be better for that area?
> 
> PS if you're still trying to up your water intake, my trick is to drink one cup when I wake up, plus before and after a meal. Since I typically eat 2 meals a day that means 5 cups just from building that habit into my day, not to mention coffee, tea, soup... I find it's pretty easy to hit approximately 8 cups a day, which I've had to do since I'm on isotretinoin (adult acne--fun) and get cracked lips if I don't hydrate enough.


Hi @actuallyacat I think getting fat grafts accelerated the skin sagging. I only really needed it in my upper lid. I should have stopped July 2016 after I had upper lid fat graft in May 2016 and never got full face fat graft later in July 2016. I had no sagging before full face fat graft. Fat graft or fillers for a small area like under your eyes might work. Just don’t get it done anywhere near the cheeks or lower face as gravity makes the heavier fat sink and stretch the skin.

I apply carmex lip balm to my lips every morning as like you I get chapped and dry lips. Good idea to drink water upon awaking and with meals. Now that I had my lower face tightened I don’t need to rely on drinking water to lift my face.


----------



## actuallyacat

MissOrange said:


> Hi @actuallyacat I think getting fat grafts accelerated the skin sagging. I only really needed it in my upper lid. I should have stopped July 2016 after I had upper lid fat graft in May 2016 and never got full face fat graft later in July 2016. I had no sagging before full face fat graft. Fat graft or fillers for a small area like under your eyes might work. Just don’t get it done anywhere near the cheeks or lower face as gravity makes the heavier fat sink and stretch the skin.
> 
> I apply carmex lip balm to my lips every morning as like you I get chapped and dry lips. Good idea to drink water upon awaking and with meals. Now that I had my lower face tightened I don’t need to rely on drinking water to lift my face.



Aw that sucks, so even though fat graft is supposed to be for anti-aging it actually has a side effect that ages you in the long term. If I lived in Korea I might consider getting a full face fat graft done every once in a while to maintain but since I don't, I guess I'll just stick to the upper face and look into fillers for the lower face. Thanks for answering my questions! Tpf is lucky to have you.


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Dominic Bray turns an ugly duckling into the Duchess of Sussex. Jacono and Bray do FLs under local anaesthetic alone. Bray: However, as this is comprehensive deep plane surgery it is never rushed and can take up to 4 hours. That is a long time to lie in one position so I prefer to make the time pass comfortably for my patients with a little sedation.


This is slightly misleading @Transformation2021 as the lady also had a rhinoplasty and brow or forehead lift at a later date. We don’t know who did her rhino but Bray does not do rhinoplasties. She looks completely different at 18 months vs 5 months, her nose is smaller and her brows higher. This suggests she had additional surgery, ie rhino elsewhere and maybe Botox to raise her eyebrows.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> This is slightly misleading @Transformation2021 as the lady also had a rhinoplasty and brow or forehead lift at a later date. We don’t know who did her rhino but Bray does not do rhinoplasties. She looks completely different at 18 months vs 5 months, her nose is smaller and her brows higher. This suggests she had additional surgery, ie rhino elsewhere and maybe Botox to raise her eyebrows.
> 
> View attachment 5161300
> 
> 
> View attachment 5161301
> 
> 
> View attachment 5161302
> 
> 
> View attachment 5161303



Wow, that's CRAZY!  Talk about the complete transformation into a swan!  She looks like an entirely different person.  Why not, eh?


----------



## Lien

Good morning, @MissOrange , I've been meaning to ask you: how's your lipo and fat transfer going?  Are you still happy? I had lipo to my tummy and a FT with a local surgeon here in Singapore when I had my implants removed.  I still think it was the right decision to have a FT as I didn't want to end up with two deflated empty bags when my implants were removed.  But I think the surgeon didn't do a very good job with the FT.  My upper poles are flat/ even concave and now I have fat on my back on my bra line, when I never had fat before.  It's hideous!  (I used to have a beautiful back).  My lipo was not great either, but after thousands of dollars of LPG/lympha massages, my tummy is not as hideous as it was before.  I am now thinking I may pay David Floyd a visit when I go back to the UK, to remove my bra/back fat and fill up my upper poles.  I might as well have my tummy fixed once and for all (though this is not as important as the others).

So, now I have 2 things I wanna have done in the UK: this FT to my boobs and a FT to my forehead & temples.  I wonder which I should have done first, hmm....


----------



## seoulsister

Dear @MissOrange

You said that you are, " going through another identity crisis again." What are your current thoughts on your recent FL now it's been a while to get used to everything?
"a lower facelift makes one look older" I'm not sure if that is the case if it was done in Seoul  by the right doc though current conditions makes it difficult to get there.
Long term I guess in an ideal world at some stage you could have a Fl in Seoul and compare, many years from now.


----------



## MissOrange

seoulsister said:


> Dear @MissOrange
> 
> You said that you are, " going through another identity crisis again." What are your current thoughts on your recent FL now it's been a while to get used to everything?
> "a lower facelift makes one look older" I'm not sure if that is the case if it was done in Seoul  by the right doc though current conditions makes it difficult to get there.
> Long term I guess in an ideal world at some stage you could have a Fl in Seoul and compare, many years from now.


Hi @seoulsister, my smas seems to have dropped a little so I no longer have a v line jaw but more my natural u shape and the golden ratio app puts me back at age 20 and not 30s with the sharp v line I had for 6 weeks post Macs FL. So now I recognise my U shaped face again but without any bad sag days. Identity crisis over.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @seoulsister, my smas seems to have dropped a little so I no longer have a v line jaw but more my natural u shape and the golden ratio app puts me back at age 20 and not 30s with the sharp v line I had for 6 weeks post Macs FL. So now I recognise my U shaped face again but without any bad sag days. Identity crisis over.
> 
> View attachment 5165540



You're still very beautiful and look very young.  But why do you think your face has gone from V-shaped to U-shaped?


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> You're still very beautiful and look very young.  But why do you think your face has gone from V-shaped to U-shaped?


Hi @Lien, the dissolvable monocryl sutures dissolve at 6 weeks and were placed subcutaneously to hold soft tissues under the skin closure. These would have dissolved. Surprised it made a difference though to the lift as I thought the 2 pds sutures on each side were suspending the smas. The pds sutures dissolve in 6 months but may not have been tight enough as the area was flooded with 40 mls of local anaesthetic that would have stretched the skin. This is my theory. As long as I don't get any bad saggy face days and don't have to drink tons of water to expand a deflated face with excess skin, I am content. I keep telling myself at least I got 5 cms of skin trimmed off. Although skin only FLs notoriously only last a year at most. The b&a of me without makeup of my before good face vs my after 6 week FL are now very similar.


----------



## seoulsister

Hi @MissOrange
I am glad you are content. Let's hope at the 6 month mark when the pds sutures dissolve there is no adverse change.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Good morning, @MissOrange , I've been meaning to ask you: how's your lipo and fat transfer going?  Are you still happy? I had lipo to my tummy and a FT with a local surgeon here in Singapore when I had my implants removed.  I still think it was the right decision to have a FT as I didn't want to end up with two deflated empty bags when my implants were removed.  But I think the surgeon didn't do a very good job with the FT.  My upper poles are flat/ even concave and now I have fat on my back on my bra line, when I never had fat before.  It's hideous!  (I used to have a beautiful back).  My lipo was not great either, but after thousands of dollars of LPG/lympha massages, my tummy is not as hideous as it was before.  I am now thinking I may pay David Floyd a visit when I go back to the UK, to remove my bra/back fat and fill up my upper poles.  I might as well have my tummy fixed once and for all (though this is not as important as the others).
> 
> So, now I have 2 things I wanna have done in the UK: this FT to my boobs and a FT to my forehead & temples.  I wonder which I should have done first, hmm....


Hi @Lien, I noticed my bra was too big or rather empty in the upper pole and realised I am now a 30e cup and no longer 32e. I think the breast FT has gone down a smidgeon in 1 year. The upper pole is not as full which makes me think fat sinks with gravity so it will be hard to achieve the implant look with just fat. My weight is 101 lbs or 2 lbs more than my op day weight, so it is not due to weight loss. 30e is still big for my petite frame so am still happy. Would even be happy with 30d!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien, the dissolvable monocryl sutures dissolve at 6 weeks and were placed subcutaneously to hold soft tissues under the skin closure. These would have dissolved. Surprised it made a difference though to the lift as I thought the 2 pds sutures on each side were suspending the smas. The pds sutures dissolve in 6 months but may not have been tight enough as the area was flooded with 40 mls of local anaesthetic that would have stretched the skin. This is my theory. As long as I don't get any bad saggy face days and don't have to drink tons of water to expand a deflated face with excess skin, I am content. I keep telling myself at least I got 5 cms of skin trimmed off. *Although skin only FLs notoriously only last a year at most.* The b&a of me without makeup of my before good face vs my after 6 week FL are now very similar.
> 
> View attachment 5166023



Only 1 year?!!

Does that mean that you'd have to have it redone fairly soon?


----------



## Lien

seoulsister said:


> Hi @MissOrange
> I am glad you are content. Let's hope at the 6 month mark when the pds sutures dissolve there is no adverse change.



Agreed!  Fingers and toes crossed for you, @MissOrange !


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien, I noticed my bra was too big or rather empty in the upper pole and realised I am now a 30e cup and no longer 32e. I think the breast FT has gone down a smidgeon in 1 year. The upper pole is not as full which makes me think fat sinks with gravity so it will be hard to achieve the implant look with just fat. My weight is 101 lbs or 2 lbs more than my op day weight, so it is not due to weight loss. 30e is still big for my petite frame so am still happy. Would even be happy with 30d!



Glad to hear that, @MissOrange !  I'd be super happy if I could be back to a large C cup like I did with implants.  Mind you, I'd be content with staying at B cup if my upper poles were fuller (or rather, not concave as they are now) and I had no back fat.  I finally figured out why I have back fat now.  My surgeon told me to go bra-less post op (almost as soon as) which I think is a big mistake as the fat then travelled to the back since I was lying on my back for so long post-op.  So yeah, it definitely moved with gravity, but in a worse way than downwards towards the legs.


----------



## MissOrange

Made a short 6.5 week postop update video. I think I need to actually film the video directly on Instagram so it lasts longer than 60 seconds. Next time. As you can see I am hopeless on Instagram with just one like!  Not sure why I have over 320,000 views of my thread here. Maybe I am a better writer than instagrammer?


----------



## MissOrange

A 44 yo Brit posted she had her breast reduction and lift in Thailand so I looked up the clinic she went to. The prices are cheap! Her result looks fab on realself which got me thinking, wow, she combined a 2 week sun holiday with plastic surgery with a breast surgeon expert at male to female transitions so he shaped her breasts beautifully. We know Thai ladies are gorgeous so their plastic surgeons must be incredible and even cheaper than in Korea. Yet I had no idea where to begin with researching Thai surgeons until @Londonlou posted her results on realself with full breast show and nothing covered up! Brave! I am thinking I paid double and ended up with nipple ptosis as a donut lift or periareolar mastopexy is like a nipple skin lift as the tension is too much on the areola and it ends up dropping within 6 months. In my opinion any nipple placement has to be supported by a vertical lollipop or full anchor lift or the scar may be wide and the nipples drop.  https://phuketpsi.com/procedures/breast-lift/


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Made a short 6.5 week postop update video. I think I need to actually film the video directly on Instagram so it lasts longer than 60 seconds. Next time. As you can see I am hopeless on Instagram with just one like!  Not sure why I have over 320,000 views of my thread here. Maybe I am a better writer than instagrammer?




I remain in awe of you, @MissOrange .  You look like you're 20-22 year old here.  Your skin is gorgeous too.


----------



## MissOrange

Thrilled I can pull off deep red lipstick again! Last time I wore deep red was in May and I looked dreadful with a saggy face like a melting waxwork figure.


----------



## MissOrange

How do you reinvent yourself when you look 30 years younger? Do your adult children become your stepchildren and you the young second wife? The public will not accept you are 55 or 60 if you look 25 or 30. You cannot say you are retired looking 25. But what do you say if asked what you do for a living? Housewife? Unemployed? Student? Life can get very complicated. Then comes prejudice if they think you are the young second wife who just spends her older husband's money and doesn't work. Sigh. And what if a younger guy makes a pass? What happens when you outlive your older husband? Do you date men your age who look like your father or grandfather or date a younger guy who lacks your maturity and hide your passport and driving licence from him? There are many consequences to looking 30 years younger but the pros outweigh the cons. Who wouldn't love to stay looking 20s forever?


----------



## MissOrange

I have started a FB group U.K. facelift and other procedures. https://www.facebook.com/groups/859604684966604 Time to help older British ladies look younger and more beautiful! Can we turn the U.K. into Korea, a country of everywhere you turn you see a Miss Korea! Lol.


----------



## babykyoong

MissOrange said:


> I went back to Seoul last month for free eyelid fat graft top up with MVP clinic as my eyelids started to hollow a little and top up was included in the original 3 million price back in May 2016. Here is what I look like less than 2 weeks post top up. This time Dr Seo took fat from my tummy through my belly button. The white cream is hydrocortisone 1% which seems to help with my raised bullhorn scar.


Hello Miss Orange.... is your upper eyelid fat still surviving or you had to go for touch-ups??


----------



## MissOrange

babykyoong said:


> Hello Miss Orange.... is your upper eyelid fat still surviving or you had to go for touch-ups??


Hi @babykyoong, my upper eyelid fat has survived for years now. I only ever had one touch up. I will never need a brow lift with the fat keeping my brows lifted too! I don’t understand why people get an incision subbrow to lift their brows? Or a temple or forehead lift to raise their brows? To me this seems so extreme. Just have a little fat transfer to expand the upper lid and this will raise the brow back to its youthful position as it is the loss of fat that has made the brows sink.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> I have started a FB group U.K. facelift and other procedures. https://www.facebook.com/groups/859604684966604 Time to help older British ladies look younger and more beautiful! Can we turn the U.K. into Korea, a country of everywhere you turn you see a Miss Korea! Lol.



I joined!! Yay!!  Thank you, @MissOrange .


----------



## MissOrange

Looks like there is yet another part of the body that sags as we age! Earlobes! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...-Jenner-EARLOBES-reduced-just-30-minutes.html


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## Transformation2021

Ouch Dr Kao's Endoscopic facelift charges have gone through the roof. Social media say he charges the peasants $100K for face and neck lift but the celebs pay more $150K for privacy. Kelly Osbourne had face and neck lift after her weight loss via gastric sleeve
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
l


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## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Ouch Dr Kao's Endoscopic facelift charges have gone through the roof. Social media say he charges the peasants $100K for face and neck lift but the celebs pay more $150K for privacy. Kelly Osbourne had face and neck lift after her weight loss via gastric sleeve
> 
> 
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> View attachment 5182527
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@Transformation2021 Did she really pay this much for a facelift and still have deep nasolabial folds? Dr Dongman Park is only $15k and does deep planes that also remove the nasolabial folds.


----------



## MissOrange

When celebs get bad facelifts, they have to show the world as they cannot hide their new faces. I wish I knew who did this to her.


----------



## catelet

Transformation2021 said:


> Ouch Dr Kao's Endoscopic facelift charges have gone through the roof. Social media say he charges the peasants $100K for face and neck lift but the celebs pay more $150K for privacy. Kelly Osbourne had face and neck lift after her weight loss via gastric sleeve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5182527
> 
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> l


How do you know she had a facelift, let alone by the Dr you mentioned?? She lost a large amount of weight reportedly by gastric bypass. She's a pretty young lady regardless. She's admitted to having fillers but to my knowledge she hasn't admitted to a facelift please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## MissOrange

I am 2 months post and loving my facelift face. My face looks good with and without makeup, with and without false eyelashes and with and without coloured contact lenses. I love the freedom it gives me now that my face is fixed. Fingers crossed I do not need to revisit my face until my 60s. Make sure you pick a facelift surgeon who removes nasolabial folds as well as the marionette lines and jowls.


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## seoulsister

Well done Miss Orange


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## LostClock

MissOrange said:


> Thrilled I can pull off deep red lipstick again! Last time I wore deep red was in May and I looked dreadful with a saggy face like a melting waxwork figure.



Aw, looks like I can't view the video! I was looking to seeing a video of you dear


----------



## MissOrange

It’s 71 days now post a £3495 ($5k) facelift. I worked out that this far it has cost £49/day and after 5 years will have cost £1.91 a day! Lol. Here are today’s no makeup face. I weigh 101.2 lbs which is 2.4 lbs more than I weighed on my op day so I need to lose 2 lbs. The extra 2.4 lbs have gone to my cheeks which is weighing down my face a little and creating downward mouth corner lines.


----------



## MissOrange

It has been 13 months since my one time great bargain £5.6k breast fat transfer and I am happy to say that I am still fitting a 32e cup bra! I weigh 2 lbs more than on my surgery day which has helped fat retention. A plastic surgeon stated that swelling causes fat cells to hypertrophy! This suggests wearing a compression garment prevents fat cells from thriving! Thank goodness I did not wear a sports bra or any compression garment postop. I always said it was 50% the surgeon’s technique and 50% the patient’s postop regime. Four months of a high protein and fat diet paid off and maintaining my weight 2-3 lbs above my surgery day weight too. Now I have learned allowing surgical swelling to occur without compression, also helps transplanted fat cells thrive and grow! To be honest, an e cup is too big for my petite frame and I looked best as a C cup but it is a small price to pay to have symmetrical breasts. I could try losing weight to reduce the cup size. I wonder what would happen to my lifted face if I did that? It is really hard to get the balance right. The saying that you have to choose between a great face or a great body rings true!


----------



## Teina

It was 5k for the facelift? I thought that it was $15k .


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> It’s 71 days now post a £3495 ($5k) facelift. I worked out that this far it has cost £49/day and after 5 years will have cost £1.91 a day! Lol. Here are today’s no makeup face. I weigh 101.2 lbs which is 2.4 lbs more than I weighed on my op day so I need to lose 2 lbs. The extra 2.4 lbs have gone to my cheeks which is weighing down my face a little and creating downward mouth corner lines.
> 
> View attachment 5193491
> 
> 
> View attachment 5193492
> 
> 
> View attachment 5193493


2.4 is 1kg....(sorry aussie i think in kg not lbs ). Its very unlikely 1 kg will make much visible difference to the face. What I can tell from the photos tho is that there is unevenness, one side has dropped more versus the other. Even if you do gain weight, an asymmetrical distribution of the weight does not occur to this degree. From what I can tell I think its either one of the two possiblities:

1) one side was tightened more than the other. This can happen actually because when the surgeon performs the procedure its essentially a guesstimate of how much tighening he should do on each side in an attempt to predict what the post recovery results will be after deliberately overpulling. Fair early to tweak too.

2) the internal bunching on one side has dissolved more quickly than the other. I can actually see more bunching on the side which is tighter whilst the side where it has dropped more seems to have dissolved already. If this is the cause then I dont think theres anything to worry about and it will both be evened out with time


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> It was 5k for the facelift? I thought that it was $15k .


The Harley Street surgeon who charged £14K cancelled my operation so I ended up finding a better surgeon in York who only charged me £3,495 or $5k. I am so pleased I ended up paying less and getting a brilliant result with no staples!


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> 2.4 is 1kg....(sorry aussie i think in kg not lbs ). Its very unlikely 1 kg will make much visible difference to the face. What I can tell from the photos tho is that there is unevenness, one side has dropped more versus the other. Even if you do gain weight, an asymmetrical distribution of the weight does not occur to this degree. From what I can tell I think its either one of the two possiblities:
> 
> 1) one side was tightened more than the other. This can happen actually because when the surgeon performs the procedure its essentially a guesstimate of how much tighening he should do on each side in an attempt to predict what the post recovery results will be after deliberately overpulling. Fair early to tweak too.
> 
> 2) the internal bunching on one side has dissolved more quickly than the other. I can actually see more bunching on the side which is tighter whilst the side where it has dropped more seems to have dissolved already. If this is the cause then I dont think theres anything to worry about and it will both be evened out with time


Hi @K Couture,

Thank you for taking the time to give a detailed analysis of my FL results. I agree with you. My right side is pulled tighter and it is raising my lip higher on that side. It is difficult to get it exactly even as each side was filled with 40 ccs of anaesthetic fluid so there would have been distortion to work with too. You have a good eye to spot the asymmetry. It does not bother me as it is slight and I can work with it with makeup and lipstick. Probably why the surgeon did not use the b&a frontal full face photos I sent him to add to his Instagram. Lol. Oh well, let’s hope as you say it is internal bunching on the right side that is yet to dissolve. Here is a full frontal face selfie. Good spot!


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a timeline of May, June and September 2021. Dyeing my hair back to blonde between May and June helped lift my face and then the facelift in July completed the rejuvenation. I think my uneven lips are either from the rib rhino or one of the 2 lip lifts as it is there before the facelift.


----------



## MissOrange

I set my Instagram to private which is why the videos are not showing up on here so here is a b&a of the face skin pinch test. I could pull out an inch before the FL and after the skin was tight!


----------



## MissOrange

Here are more amazing b&a transformation photos. My before is age 27 and I hated my side profile, flat nose and long mandible and the after is age 55. I used to make sure no date saw me from the side so I sat across the table. When a friend said I can recognise you anywhere from your jaw, I was mortified. No I did not get double jaw surgery as suggested by ID hospital in my late 40s by email consult, just a bit of chin bone shaving along with rib rhino by a board certified plastic surgeon in London, Mr Lucian Ion. He has stopped doing chin shavings as far as I know after someone asked. Now my side profile is my best feature!


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to give a detailed analysis of my FL results. I agree with you. My right side is pulled tighter and it is raising my lip higher on that side. It is difficult to get it exactly even as each side was filled with 40 ccs of anaesthetic fluid so there would have been distortion to work with too. You have a good eye to spot the asymmetry. It does not bother me as it is slight and I can work with it with makeup and lipstick. Probably why the surgeon did not use the b&a frontal full face photos I sent him to add to his Instagram. Lol. Oh well, let’s hope as you say it is internal bunching on the right side that is yet to dissolve. Here is a full frontal face selfie. Good spot!
> 
> View attachment 5202705


Yeah it can be difficult get it right especially if the patient has asymmetry pre op. I noticed there's more fatty deposits on one side in your pre op photos too. My face too is not symmetrical but my issue is more the bone than tissue distribution. Your results definitely shows an improvement from before tho. And everything else has held up nicely. fingers crossed its the bunching. Even if its not like i said additionally tightening is easy as you could probably just get away with a muscle/skin lift. I had that issue about 4 months post op. I noticed my lower jowel / upper neck region on the left side was very very slightly different. But I couldnt stand to look at it so I went and had a skin lift with a partial muscle lift to alleviate the problem. 4.5 years later and its still holding up well. From what i recall the procedure only took like 40 mins to perform under sedation. No need for ga


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> Yeah it can be difficult get it right especially if the patient has asymmetry pre op. I noticed there's more fatty deposits on one side in your pre op photos too. My face too is not symmetrical but my issue is more the bone than tissue distribution. Your results definitely shows an improvement from before tho. And everything else has held up nicely. fingers crossed its the bunching. Even if its not like i said additionally tightening is easy as you could probably just get away with a muscle/skin lift. I had that issue about 4 months post op. I noticed my lower jowel / upper neck region on the left side was very very slightly different. But I couldnt stand to look at it so I went and had a skin lift with a partial muscle lift to alleviate the problem. 4.5 years later and its still holding up well. From what i recall the procedure only took like 40 mins to perform under sedation. No need for ga


Hi @K Couture, wow you had asymmetry too! Yes if the asymmetry no matter how slight bothers you, then absolutely get it revised. I am not yet 3 months out so will wait and see if it gets better or worse. I couldn’t bear going through the procedure again so can let a slight asymmetry pass. My right cheekbone is bigger than my left. I know that as I had facial x rays in Seoul. I have small fat pad deposits over my left malar cheekbone and in the middle of my forehead. Again, I accept that plastic surgery comes with its imperfections. It took ages to come to terms with asymmetric nostrils post revision rib rhino when I had perfectly symmetrical nostrils before rhino. I think also having bad periareolar scarring has made me more accepting of imperfections as even revisions come with risks of something else going wrong.


----------



## asymitri

MissOrange said:


> I only had radiesse for my nasolabial folds for over 10 years so cannot comment on juvederm. I usually need 1.5 cc’s total or 0.75 cc per side.


hi miss orange! first off you look lovely. I was wondering what your thoughts are for getting fat grafting to the nasolabial fold area as opposed to other fillers. have you ever gotten fat grafting to the paranasal area? do you opt for fillers because they last longer or..? thank you~


----------



## MissOrange

asymitri said:


> hi miss orange! first off you look lovely. I was wondering what your thoughts are for getting fat grafting to the nasolabial fold area as opposed to other fillers. have you ever gotten fat grafting to the paranasal area? do you opt for fillers because they last longer or..? thank you~


Hi @asymitri, 

Ideally best to address the cause of the nasolabial folds which may be due to skin laxity or volume loss. Fillers are a temporary measure. Fat graft lasts 1-2 years in the lower face due to movement. A good facelift can remove the nasolabial lines.


----------



## MissOrange

81 days post vertical vector facelift. Dr Seo gave me young, sexy, beautiful eyes, Dr Ion gave me a lovely nose and chin and Dr Rhodes gave me a natural beautiful young facelift. Really pleased at the combined efforts of Korean and British board certified plastic surgeons to rejuvenate a 55 yo ajumma.


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## MissOrange

The ultimate test to see if your facelift has been successful is to compare the zero gravity face to the upright face. Looking pretty good. Now if only I could go back in time and go back to university looking like this! lol.


----------



## asymitri

MissOrange said:


> Hi @asymitri,
> 
> Ideally best to address the cause of the nasolabial folds which may be due to skin laxity or volume loss. Fillers are a temporary measure. Fat graft lasts 1-2 years in the lower face due to movement. A good facelift can remove the nasolabial lines.


I see. Thanks for your response. I'm only 20 so the sunken-in part of my midface is due to my bone structure. :'(. I know some clinics (I think VIP) do midface augmentation, but I read that this procedure can lead to complications like changing the shape of someone's smile. So I think I might try fat grafting to my paranasal area first.

Are you worried about fillers traveling in the face (especially since the lower face has more movement)?


----------



## K Couture

asymitri said:


> I see. Thanks for your response. I'm only 20 so the sunken-in part of my midface is due to my bone structure. :'(. I know some clinics (I think VIP) do midface augmentation, but I read that this procedure can lead to complications like changing the shape of someone's smile. So I think I might try fat grafting to my paranasal area first.
> 
> Are you worried about fillers traveling in the face (especially since the lower face has more movement)?


Actually, there's a high risk of fat graft migrating due to movement when compared to filler. One reason is because unlike filler, it needs to be overfilled because the surgeon always needs to assume some fat cells will die. You arent actually transplanting fat, you are grafting fat CELLS. The newly administered fat cells need time to develop new blood vessels in the new location in order to survive, and not all of the cells will survive. The nasolabial folds is essentially a skin flap, with no underlying structure, which is why its one of the first areas to be visible due to aging. To add, movement in the nasio fold region is high due to you talking smiling laughing etc, which greatly lowers survivability of the fat cells. Hence surgeons tend to overfill a bit more for that region to mitigate this which can end up leading to migration during the early weeks as the fat cells are not as stiff as a filler. To add, if you have fat which migrates you are gonna have a hell of a time trying to get rid of it. Its not as simple as "3cc of fat shifted to this part so im going to lipo 3 cc of fat out". You wont know exactly where the fat went to and neither will the surgeon. Its only a visual approximation. And the surgeon can't suck out the exact amount and may end up taking out too little or too much, including your own natural fat. So it can end up becoming a yo-yo battle.

 Filler is much easier to deal with and in the event of an overfill or migration (which happens less often), simply dissolve it with one injection. Yields the same results too


----------



## MissOrange

asymitri said:


> I see. Thanks for your response. I'm only 20 so the sunken-in part of my midface is due to my bone structure. :'(. I know some clinics (I think VIP) do midface augmentation, but I read that this procedure can lead to complications like changing the shape of someone's smile. So I think I might try fat grafting to my paranasal area first.
> 
> Are you worried about fillers traveling in the face (especially since the lower face has more movement)?


Hi @asymitri Try radiesse filler first. It lasts 6-12 months so you can see if you like it. @K Couture is right. Facial fg to the face is unpredictable and once in it is almost impossible to get out.


----------



## pumpkin77

h


asymitri said:


> I see. Thanks for your response. I'm only 20 so the sunken-in part of my midface is due to my bone structure. :'(. I know some clinics (I think VIP) do midface augmentation, but I read that this procedure can lead to complications like changing the shape of someone's smile. So I think I might try fat grafting to my paranasal area first.
> 
> Are you worried about fillers traveling in the face (especially since the lower face has more movement)?


Hi @asymitri, I have actually tried fat graft for more 3dimensional volume on my face. Like many wise/knowledged/experienced forumers said above, there can be pros n cons. What I heard was that is why fat graft was originally meant to be 2 times(touch up they call it), making it more ideal for locals in convenience reasons. Mild one for the first time, for the doctor to know your absorption rate and etc. Then fulfilling it with the second one. I was uncomfortable with the idea of fillers in my face and I also had the blessed flexibility to visit korea again in 5months at that time so I went for the fat graft.(same price including the 2nd touch).


----------



## beautifullife1712

Dear pretty Ms. Orange,

I have been a big fans of yours and have been reading this thread since years ago, and you even look younger every day !!

I had breast implant 7 years ago and interest on the breast Fat Graft as you've done.
I believe I've seen somewhere you mentioned that Thailand also has a recommended doctor for this.
Can you please recommend ? Since I'm from Indonesia and it's to far to go to UK to Dr. David.

Looking forward to hear from you, thanks before.


----------



## MissOrange

beautifullife1712 said:


> Dear pretty Ms. Orange,
> 
> I have been a big fans of yours and have been reading this thread since years ago, and you even look younger every day !!
> 
> I had breast implant 7 years ago and interest on the breast Fat Graft as you've done.
> I believe I've seen somewhere you mentioned that Thailand also has a recommended doctor for this.
> Can you please recommend ? Since I'm from Indonesia and it's to far to go to UK to Dr. David.
> 
> Looking forward to hear from you, thanks before.


Hi @beautifullife1712,

Thank you for reading my thread.
https://phuketpsi.com/procedures/breast-lift/ This was the clinic I mentioned London Lou went to but I think she had breast reduction with breast lift and not breast fat transfer there.


----------



## beautifullife1712

Thank you Miss Orange !!
Ah yes, sadly they do not have fat transfer there.

I began to feel itch on my breast since a month ago. Is this one of the BII symptoms ?
I'm worried and thinking to remove the BI but want to replace it with fat transfer, but haven't found any reliable doctor to do that 
in my country, since I cannot go abroad for a long time due to my work. And nowadays the quarantine back and forth itself will need 3 weeks alone 

Can anyone tell me if how's the BII experience and how long it usually takes after BI ?
I used mentor BI 7 years ago.


----------



## K Couture

beautifullife1712 said:


> Thank you Miss Orange !!
> Ah yes, sadly they do not have fat transfer there.
> 
> I began to feel itch on my breast since a month ago. Is this one of the BII symptoms ?
> I'm worried and thinking to remove the BI but want to replace it with fat transfer, but haven't found any reliable doctor to do that
> in my country, since I cannot go abroad for a long time due to my work. And nowadays the quarantine back and forth itself will need 3 weeks alone
> 
> Can anyone tell me if how's the BII experience and how long it usually takes after BI ?
> I used mentor BI 7 years ago.


is yours anatomical/ tear drop? If so just fyi those implants have all been recalled due to the risk of als. The risk is pretty low though so you dont really have to replace it as long as you do frequent mri and ultrasounds.


----------



## beautifullife1712

Dear @K Couture , thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, mine was teardrop mentor.
The MRI shows no tear on the implant actually. I'm just worried since the itches on my breast and my surgeon said it needed to be replaced after 7-8 years. I think he only said it for commercially reason, but I'm also aware of the BII since I learned that BII can happen even though no tear on the implant.

I'll examine my symptoms carefully to make sure for now, until I can find a good surgeon to do the fat transfer locally or can find a chance to go to UK


----------



## K Couture

beautifullife1712 said:


> Dear @K Couture , thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, mine was teardrop mentor.
> The MRI shows no tear on the implant actually. I'm just worried since the itches on my breast and my surgeon said it needed to be replaced after 7-8 years. I think he only said it for commercially reason, but I'm also aware of the BII since I learned that BII can happen even though no tear on the implant.
> 
> I'll examine my symptoms carefully to make sure for now, until I can find a good surgeon to do the fat transfer locally or can find a chance to go to UK


The mri isnt only to check for tears. Its to check for other conditions like capsular contraction etc. Its also used to find indicators of ALS, which is a rare form of cancer which the tear drops have been known to increase the risk of. I have a tear drop implant too btw. Unfortunately at the time of me getting my breast done, the studies relating to anatomical implant and als have yet to be released thus surgeons had deemed it safe. Eventually I will replace it with motiva.

Problem with Fat graft to the breast is unless you naturally have volumous breast and just want to create natural cleavage or contour the shape, its fine. Other than that, you will find lots of dissatisfaction with it as the resorption is quite high when fg is used and results are not good. 1/2-1cup bigger is what you can expect and even then you dont know how long it will last. Theres's several reasons for this.

1) You need at least 400 cc of fat available. 200 each side. Thats quite a lot of fat btw for asian women. Many of us dont have anywhere near the sufficient amount to harvest

2) When such a large volume off fat is transplanted into the one region, it means there is less room for new blood vessels for the fat cells to develop into the transplanted area. This is why it dies off so easily.

So unless you are a bigger girl (and i dont mean asian big), you  might want to look into motiva instead. 

Also, i would advise NOT going to thailand for plastic surgery. I have investments in the thai surgical industry and i myself know better than to do any procedures there. I'll give you an example. During one of my meetings with a group of senior surgeons, I brought up the use of endoscope during breast augmentation procedures. All of them just laughed it off and admitted to charging a higher price for the endoscopic technique to patients WITHOUT actually performing the endoscopic technique. This means patients are paying a premium for procedures which they are not even having. They even explained that the patients wont know the difference and even went on to justify that even if the endoscopic method is used, the surgeon still needs to physically reach in to make the incisions and that the endoscope is just for visual advantages. This is incorrect as I have witnessed an endosopic breast augmentation performed in Korea whereby the surgeon actually splits the breast tissue layer by layer with a fine fiber laser so as to create the breast pocket between the muscles. Fact is, thai surgeons are not adept in using the endoscopic method. I hope this gives you something to think about when considering Thailand. The industry is very shadey there.


----------



## beautifullife1712

Wow, thanks for the insight @K Couture !! Learn so much form you. I will learn more about fat transfer and motiva then.


----------



## pumpkin77

K Couture said:


> The mri isnt only to check for tears. Its to check for other conditions like capsular contraction etc. Its also used to find indicators of ALS, which is a rare form of cancer which the tear drops have been known to increase the risk of. I have a tear drop implant too btw. Unfortunately at the time of me getting my breast done, the studies relating to anatomical implant and als have yet to be released thus surgeons had deemed it safe. Eventually I will replace it with motiva.
> 
> Problem with Fat graft to the breast is unless you naturally have volumous breast and just want to create natural cleavage or contour the shape, its fine. Other than that, you will find lots of dissatisfaction with it as the resorption is quite high when fg is used and results are not good. 1/2-1cup bigger is what you can expect and even then you dont know how long it will last. Theres's several reasons for this.
> 
> 1) You need at least 400 cc of fat available. 200 each side. Thats quite a lot of fat btw for asian women. Many of us dont have anywhere near the sufficient amount to harvest
> 
> 2) When such a large volume off fat is transplanted into the one region, it means there is less room for new blood vessels for the fat cells to develop into the transplanted area. This is why it dies off so easily.
> 
> So unless you are a bigger girl (and i dont mean asian big), you  might want to look into motiva instead.
> 
> Also, i would advise NOT going to thailand for plastic surgery. I have investments in the thai surgical industry and i myself know better than to do any procedures there. I'll give you an example. During one of my meetings with a group of senior surgeons, I brought up the use of endoscope during breast augmentation procedures. All of them just laughed it off and admitted to charging a higher price for the endoscopic technique to patients WITHOUT actually performing the endoscopic technique. This means patients are paying a premium for procedures which they are not even having. They even explained that the patients wont know the difference and even went on to justify that even if the endoscopic method is used, the surgeon still needs to physically reach in to make the incisions and that the endoscope is just for visual advantages. This is incorrect as I have witnessed an endosopic breast augmentation performed in Korea whereby the surgeon actually splits the breast tissue layer by layer with a fine fiber laser so as to create the breast pocket between the muscles. Fact is, thai surgeons are not adept in using the endoscopic method. I hope this gives you something to think about when considering Thailand. The industry is very shadey there.


Are you a doctor?? Thank you for all detailed and professional information! What you write and the information I collected by asking many doctors are almost same in many cases! I am becoming a fan and thinking of diving into all the posts you've written so far! 
Fat graft for breast may be effective for those who already have quite volume on their breasts is what I've been told too! Plus risk of some lumps being created.. well, I'm not a right candidate anyways..


----------



## K Couture

pumpkin77 said:


> Are you a doctor?? Thank you for all detailed and professional information! What you write and the information I collected by asking many doctors are almost same in many cases! I am becoming a fan and thinking of diving into all the posts you've written so far!
> Fat graft for breast may be effective for those who already have quite volume on their breasts is what I've been told too! Plus risk of some lumps being created.. well, I'm not a right candidate anyways..



No im not. Im an investor in a plastic surgery hospital in thailand (im not thai btw so im not culturally inclined to those shadey business antics youll find in countries like thailand) and i import medical technology from korea and germany into my hospital. Anyways because of this I've attended seminars and met with various surgeons and done lots of medical research. Thats mainly where my knowledge of the industry comes from. That and im also a plastic surgery junkie lol. Ive done everything so far besides my lips, which i plan to do soon in korea once that stupid hotel quarantine is removed. -_-

Also, make sure the doctors you are speaking to are plastic surgeons. A close friend of mine is a lasik eye surgeon and he himself doesnt know much about it. Just like how a plastic surgeon's knowledge on autoimmune diseases cannot compare with an immunologist.

Yeh lumps can happen more often in the breast than face when fg is used due to the sheer volume and forced compaction of the transplant site. I was wanting to add some fg to my breast augmentation for added cleavage but I had used up all my fat available (300cc) during my bbl. I dont have enough fat anymore unfortunately -_-.


----------



## MissOrange

beautifullife1712 said:


> Thank you Miss Orange !!
> Ah yes, sadly they do not have fat transfer there.
> 
> I began to feel itch on my breast since a month ago. Is this one of the BII symptoms ?
> I'm worried and thinking to remove the BI but want to replace it with fat transfer, but haven't found any reliable doctor to do that
> in my country, since I cannot go abroad for a long time due to my work. And nowadays the quarantine back and forth itself will need 3 weeks alone
> 
> Can anyone tell me if how's the BII experience and how long it usually takes after BI ?
> I used mentor BI 7 years ago.


Hi @beautifullife1712, 7 years is when the risk for alcs jumps up. I panicked as I was at the 7 year mark with textured silicone breast implants. I had an itchy rash over my right shoulder blade that wouldn't go away. Then my eyes kept burning, getting super dry, blurry, red. Then I got severe oesophagitis and palpitations that lasted hours! I was a ticking time bomb with breast implant illness. My T cells were working overtime to get rid of the foreign body and in the process were attacking my own body!

Itching can be a sign of reaction to the implants. I would prioritise finding a breast surgeon who does en bloc explants which includes the capsule. In the UK there are 3... Dr Claudia Harding Maclean, Dr David Floyd and Dr Guy Sterne. 

Fat graft is for later as the breasts have to heal from the trauma. There is more chance of the fat graft reabsorbing if done at the same time as explant. 

If you can find a plastic surgeon who does the traditional liposuction for fat graft and no tumescent fluid, like I had with David Floyd, then the chances of retention with my postop protocol is close to 100% with no lumps. I am 5'1 and had 145 ccs/175ccs fat grafted combined with a diet that led to fat cell hypertrophy for 4 months meant I am still a 32e cup which is huge on my tiny frame.

By the time you need fat transfer the quarantine will be over. I had a 19 month gap between explant and fat transfer due to covid delays and rescheduling which meant I went through the depressed phase of having asymmetric a cup/c cup with tubular deformity for over a year after the revision periareolar mastopexy. It is a process and journey.


----------



## beautifullife1712

Dar Miss Orange,

Oh my, I just know that there are so many ways to explant the breast implant. I've always thought it is as simple as remove the implant. Does this mean my breast will even be smaller than before implant since there are some tissues being taken away ?
Do you do the revision of periareolar mastopexy while doing the en bloc explant or after ?

Are the tissues taken quite a lot ? I'm actually happy with my implant appearance right now if not due to my itches and BII possibility. I cannot imagine my breast without the implants  
How long did it for the BII symptoms stop after the explant ?

I really need to think ahead on this while looking for goof breast surgeon.


----------



## MissOrange

beautifullife1712 said:


> Dar Miss Orange,
> 
> Oh my, I just know that there are so many ways to explant the breast implant. I've always thought it is as simple as remove the implant. Does this mean my breast will even be smaller than before implant since there are some tissues being taken away ?
> Do you do the revision of periareolar mastopexy while doing the en bloc explant or after ?
> 
> Are the tissues taken quite a lot ? I'm actually happy with my implant appearance right now if not due to my itches and BII possibility. I cannot imagine my breast without the implants
> How long did it for the BII symptoms stop after the explant ?
> 
> I really need to think ahead on this while looking for goof breast surgeon.


Hi @beautifullife1712 

Yes the breasts go smaller after explant. Some ladies get a full breast lift at the same time as explant to give a lifted and fuller look and some are happy to have smaller breasts. I would not recommend the periareolar mastopexy I had as it doesn’t work. It reminds me of a skin only facelift that droops as the skin stretches with gravity in 6-12 months. If you get a breast lift it has to be the full anchor lift. I expected the full anchor lift and had shown a photo of his past patient who had this before I was taken to theatre but awoke to a mini periareolar lift which has left me with bad scars as there is too much tension around the areolas.

Once the implants were removed I awoke to no rash on my back and all my symptoms immediately resolved. I was clearly reacting to the textured silicone. Hope I have no lasting damage from 7 years of exposure to the textured silicone.


----------



## MissOrange

Today is a warning for ladies getting facelifts. If you end up with joker lines or cross cheek depression this is a complication and not normal! http://vallambros.com/publications/joker-line.pdf

Find a better facelift surgeon if you see his patients with this complication. Looking like Maleficent is a bad result. It amazes me when ladies have this cross cheek joker line from their facelift and think it is normal!


----------



## MissOrange

The best combination for reverse facial aging is fat transfer with a vertical facelift. Here is a lady who had a bad facelift and was left with cross cheek depression (joker lines) at age 44 and she had this corrected with fat transfer and fillers at age 50. I like how the author also points out how the hollowed upper lids were also filled.

I have added my 3 month update selfie. See how the combination of past fat transfer and a 3 month old facelift gives the best results for rejuvenation. Sometimes a facelift alone is not enough to reverse aging as it does not address the loss of facial fat. I would never have imagined that I would look this good at age 55. In my 20s I always thought being 40 or 50 was old and I would be dead by my 50s! Lol. We can truly turn back time! I have no fat left on my body so no more facial fat transfers for me which is good as I think I overdid the fat transfers. 5 is way too many! I should have had a facelift sooner than an umpteenth fat transfer. My aging depleted facial fat compartments have now been refilled with permanent fat. My upper eyelids are also full and stable. That only needed 2 fat transfers.

It is strange how before I would take loads of selfies to get one selfie I liked and now each selfie looks great that I stop after 1 or 2! I go to London restaurants and look around and notice that most diners are not as attractive yet seem to have a great time. This makes me feel a tad shallow for obsessing about my looks. But it seems to help to look attractive. I accidentally spilled my champagne and the waiter immediately came back with a full glass of champagne!

Do I have to adjust now to not only looking younger but also more physically attractive than I have ever been? I went to the local post office and was standing in the queue (part of life in the U.K. is queueing for everything, even petrol! Lol) when a young man behind one of the counters motioned to me and pulled me out of the queue to serve me! I was shocked! Is this a perk of looking attractive? If this is what life is like for beautiful people, I’ll take it! Lol. Beats having spent a decade being invisible in my 40s. Or is it that men will give me preferential treatment as women may be jealous?!

I guess if you are a handsome man you are more in luck as there is more chance of female staff serving you. I once watched a handsome man flirt with the Virgin Atlantic airline counter check in staff and she upgraded him to first class for free! I was standing behind him having paid the full £3000 and looking like an aging lady in her 40s. Lol. I now need to think of places where men are more likely to serve customers.


----------



## Pakune

Did you stop your Facebook group miss orange ?


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @Pakune, yes I did. Too much work to moderate.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I saw a postop lady with a bad lip lift and facelift result. Her upper lip is still very thin. Remember to find a lip lift surgeon who not only shortens the philtrum to 11-13 mms but also everts the upper lip to  create fuller youthful lips. Here is my before and after at almost 5 years post bullhorn lip lift where the surgeon also everted my upper lip so it is permanently full and youthful. Do not waste your money on surgeons who trim a couple of mms and charge you mega bucks! That is not a proper lip lift.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Today I saw a postop lady with a bad lip lift and facelift result. Her upper lip is still very thin. Remember to find a lip lift surgeon who not only shortens the philtrum to 11-13 mms but also everts the upper lip to  create fuller youthful lips. Here is my before and after at almost 5 years post bullhorn lip lift where the surgeon also everted my upper lip so it is permanently full and youthful. Do not waste your money on surgeons who trim a couple of mms and charge you mega bucks! That is not a proper lip lift.
> 
> View attachment 5211834


your scars healed really nicely. How long did they take to no longer be visible? Or rather, are they still visible when you are not wearing make up? I'm planning to get that done too


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> your scars healed really nicely. How long did they take to no longer be visible? Or rather, are they still visible when you are not wearing make up? I'm planning to get that done too


Hi @K Couture,

My LL scar went from red to pink to white but became raised so at 1 year at my 1 year follow up I asked for kenalog injection and she injected deep and within a week the scar flattened and shrank to a tiny white line. Without makeup one can see it if one knows to look for the thin white line up close else it is not obvious. Makeup makes the scar invisible. I have just read 10 pages of reviews on CO2 for LL scars on @missliplift's IG page. Her IG is a wealth of knowledge on LLs. She concluded that Caucasian ladies respond well to CO2 but non Caucasians appear to end up with worse scars, dents, atrophy, wider scar etc. I was debating whether to try CO2 laser for my wide periareolar scar as I have my follow up in 10 days at the burns unit, but am terrified if it worsens the scar which is already wide, raised, with variable hyperpigmentation. I had such a horrific third degree burn from a ktp laser that it has taken me a year to reconsider laser which the burns unit consultant says would help if CO2 and not KTP.


----------



## MissOrange

For ladies in your 40s or 50s taking similar steps to look 20s, be warned that life changes. You may be asked to go clubbing, to karaoke bars, to play sports by the younger generation but find that you are still a 50+ yo who goes to bed at 9 pm. You may look 20s but when you shop, you forget and buy familiar, comfortable or grown up clothes as you are still 50s on the inside who grew up in the 80s. You may ask your OH to take steps to reduce what looks like a 40 year age gap but the most he can do is look 50s with exercise and dyeing out the grey. The perceived age gap is still 30 years to the public and you still get disapproving stares as a couple.

Your eyes see a 20+ yo in the mirror so you find any 65+ yo stranger who flirts with you is a pervert. You suddenly have difficulty with intimacy. Your brain can't cope with the 30-40 year perceived age gap with your partner who either looks his age or a decade younger at his best. The relationship changes from partners to a parent-child one. Your adult children refuse to listen to you as a parent as you look more like an annoying classmate. You question what will happen when your older partner dies as now your brain thinks 60s is close to dying at 70+. He is less than a decade older in chronological years but as women outlive men, you face a possibility of needing a second husband.

This is frightening as men in their 20s look like your adult children. You fear men in their 30s will look at you with repugnancy once you reveal your true age. Bear in mind Caucasian men age rapidly by 40+ and again the age gap would appear to be 20-30 years with looking 20s dating a 40+ yo man who looks 50s when in actuality you would still be older chronologically. If you find a 55 yo man who looked 20s I guess that might work but that is nigh impossible in this world unless he is Asian. I guess the only way it would work is if you forced yourself to date younger men and only tell them your true age if they proposed.

Life becomes very complicated with preferential treatment from men and discriminatory treatment from "older" women who see you as a pretty young girl when in actuality you may be chronologically older than them.

I guess you could watch movies where the mother and daughter switch bodies to see what life might be like but at the end of the movie they are grateful to go back to their own bodies but you cannot wake up to your older face and would be stuck with a face 30 years younger and a younger figure as you may need full body lipo with optional lifting so the body fits the new face.

It will take time to adjust psychologically to this transition from 50s to 20s and how you interact with the world who now sees you as a young girl.


----------



## LostClock

Did you get rid of your videos on Instagram too?


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture,
> 
> My LL scar went from red to pink to white but became raised so at 1 year at my 1 year follow up I asked for kenalog injection and she injected deep and within a week the scar flattened and shrank to a tiny white line. Without makeup one can see it if one knows to look for the thin white line up close else it is not obvious. Makeup makes the scar invisible. I have just read 10 pages of reviews on CO2 for LL scars on @missliplift's IG page. Her IG is a wealth of knowledge on LLs. She concluded that Caucasian ladies respond well to CO2 but non Caucasians appear to end up with worse scars, dents, atrophy, wider scar etc. I was debating whether to try CO2 laser for my wide periareolar scar as I have my follow up in 10 days at the burns unit, but am terrified if it worsens the scar which is already wide, raised, with variable hyperpigmentation. I had such a horrific third degree burn from a ktp laser that it has taken me a year to reconsider laser which the burns unit consultant says would help if CO2 and not KTP.


Traditional CO2 is


K Couture said:


> No im not. Im an investor in a plastic surgery hospital in thailand (im not thai btw so im not culturally inclined to those shadey business antics youll find in countries like thailand) and i import medical technology from korea and germany into my hospital. Anyways because of this I've attended seminars and met with various surgeons and done lots of medical research. Thats mainly where my knowledge of the industry comes from. That and im also a plastic surgery junkie lol. Ive done everything so far besides my lips, which i plan to do soon in korea once that stupid hotel quarantine is removed. -_-
> 
> Also, make sure the doctors you are speaking to are plastic surgeons. A close friend of mine is a lasik eye surgeon and he himself doesnt know much about it. Just like how a plastic surgeon's knowledge on autoimmune diseases cannot compare with an immunologist.
> 
> Yeh lumps can happen more often in the breast than face when fg is used due to the sheer volume and forced compaction of the transplant site. I was wanting to add some fg to my breast augmentation for added cleavage but I had used up all my fat available (300cc) during my bbl. I dont have enough fat anymore unfortunately -_-.


Never fear. Renuva to the rescue.


----------



## MissOrange

LostClock said:


> Did you get rid of your videos on Instagram too?


No


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture,
> 
> My LL scar went from red to pink to white but became raised so at 1 year at my 1 year follow up I asked for kenalog injection and she injected deep and within a week the scar flattened and shrank to a tiny white line. Without makeup one can see it if one knows to look for the thin white line up close else it is not obvious. Makeup makes the scar invisible. I have just read 10 pages of reviews on CO2 for LL scars on @missliplift's IG page. Her IG is a wealth of knowledge on LLs. She concluded that Caucasian ladies respond well to CO2 but non Caucasians appear to end up with worse scars, dents, atrophy, wider scar etc. I was debating whether to try CO2 laser for my wide periareolar scar as I have my follow up in 10 days at the burns unit, but am terrified if it worsens the scar which is already wide, raised, with variable hyperpigmentation. I had such a horrific third degree burn from a ktp laser that it has taken me a year to reconsider laser which the burns unit consultant says would help if CO2 and not KTP.


Ah yes kenalog is my best friend. Me being the queen of keloids I inject that very often. Lucky for my facial work I don't scar much but the skin of the body reacts very differently to facial scars. I find korean surgeons want you to wait a month before using kenalog/kenacort but I recall mendelson used it on me 10 days post op my concentric malar lift and it worked wonders. Maybe I can convince my lip lift surgeon to do it like this too as a preventative measure.


----------



## LostClock

Transformation2021 said:


> Traditional CO2 is
> 
> Never fear. Renuva to the rescue.


I looked it up, wonder why I've never heard of Renuva before! The information I found mostly comes from last fall so it must be new, I'll have to keep my eye on it...



MissOrange said:


> No


Would you mind sharing the link? The videos I clicked on before weren't available anymore


----------



## MissOrange

LostClock said:


> I looked it up, wonder why I've never heard of Renuva before! The information I found mostly comes from last fall so it must be new, I'll have to keep my eye on it...
> 
> 
> Would you mind sharing the link? The videos I clicked on before weren't available anymore


Hi @LostClock, I have added a video at 6.5 weeks to youtube. Here is the link.


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @LostClock, here is my youtube video at 2.5 weeks post VR facelift. There was still some cheek swelling but by the 6.5 week video it was gone.


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @LostClock here is the 60+ yo lady I befriended who had her facelift with Nick weeks before me. I chatted with 3 recent patients of Nick and saw their b&a photos so knew he made them all more beautiful and younger and followed one lady a year out on instagram. Hard to believe she is in her 60s! I have seen private photos of her and she could even pass for a teen in her frontal face view! He gave her youthful eyes too for £1500.


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## K Couture

Im curious, how long did the procedure actually take? Since you did it under local anesthesia Im curious how you dealt with it mentally. I recall you said the pain lasted during the administering of the anesthesia for 5 mins but Im sure you could still feel the pulling, stitching and pressure against your face. How did you handle lying there while all those sensations was occuring? I would have had a panic attack to be honest lol


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## MissOrange

Here is my video at 1 month post Vr FL.


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## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> Im curious, how long did the procedure actually take? Since you did it under local anesthesia Im curious how you dealt with it mentally. I recall you said the pain lasted during the administering of the anesthesia for 5 mins but Im sure you could still feel the pulling, stitching and pressure against your face. How did you handle lying there while all those sensations was occuring? I would have had a panic attack to be honest lol


Hi @K Couture, when I was told it would take 2.5 hours under local, I too thought how am I going to lie still and bear listening to all the sounds and smells of the electric cautery buzzing and the pulling and pressure. I lasted 30 minutes in silence during my bullhorn lip lift and could hear everything and feel pressure. I thought that was the limit of my patience as I can rarely sit still for more than 7 minutes without fidgeting. But the couple work together in theatre. While Nick operates, Orla is a master of chat! She distracted me with a ton of questions and they equally shared about their lives too. The time went by so quickly. It felt like a counselling session where you are asked a zillion questions and by the time you have answered all, time was up. I think they learned everything about my life, family, work before I retired, etc. Imagine Oprah delving into your private life for 2 hours! Lol. If anything I was afraid my talking may affect my results as I would have thought a surgeon would want me to keep my mouth as still as possible. Thank goodness he had done 100s before me. I was also amazed at how he knew how much to pull and trim as my face was full of 40ccs of anaesthetic fluid! How did he know not to pull too tight to avoid cross cheek depression joker lines and enough so it would lift and get rid of the jowls? I guess it is down to experience. I apologised after the surgery as I think I shared too much of my private life! Lol.

Equally I got to learn more about the couple and their family and what motivates them. They were both maxillofacial surgeons when they met and he went on to specialise in plastic surgery and she raised the family and manages the clinic. Their ethos is to help ladies reverse aging and look the best they can be at the most affordable prices possible. None of this malarkey of charging £15-29k for a facelift or that of the U.S. charging $50-$120k. His wife sets the prices and because she is a woman and was a surgeon, she understands how aging affects ladies mentally and does everything she can to make it affordable for ladies up North or for ladies who travel up to York. There is definitely a bias between London plastic surgeons and surgeons up North. Most London surgeons think they are superior to surgeons up North yet Nick is an example of a surgeon up North who is incredibly skilled. When I sat my surgical exams I noticed that surgeons with a posh accent had an easier time passing the surgical exams in London and those without a posh upper class accent had to sit and pass their exams in Scotland or Ireland. I think they are brilliant as they are showing up the London surgeons by showing how good he is and he is not charging a fortune like Kent or London surgeons down south. It reminds me of the bias in Seoul vs Busan. I noticed Nick does not flaunt himself on Instagram like other global surgeons but instead is humble and hides from the spotlight. He focuses on his trade and he has a unique talent. I really enjoyed the one hour he spent with me at consult discussing everything from sutures to placement etc. The fact that he gives his time for free for consults, is incredible in a world where surgeons charge for everything! He even invites consultant plastic surgeons to watch him operate or to spend the day with him. Imagine allowing potential competitors access to his skills! I met one such surgeon when I went for my 9 day postop visit and the look on his face when I said I was 55 and looked much younger thanks to Nick. His jaw dropped to the floor. I wished to find a surgeon who could do a bullhorn lip lift for my face, ie lift the face, soft tissues and muscles under local with longlasting results and found that in Nick. Both Nick and Caroline trained in maxillofacial surgery. Interesting coincidence.

Oh I forgot to add that Nick now offers GA or twilight IV sedation for his VR facelift for nervous ladies who need to be fully sedated. It costs £3k more to cover the extra costs of theatre, staff and recovery etc.

Here are his transparent and affordable prices. https://www.coppergateclinic.co.uk/price-list


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## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture, when I was told it would take 2.5 hours under local, I too thought how am I going to lie still and bear listening to all the sounds and smells of the electric cautery buzzing and the pulling and pressure. I lasted 30 minutes in silence during my bullhorn lip lift and could hear everything and feel pressure. I thought that was the limit of my patience as I can rarely sit still for more than 7 minutes without fidgeting. But the couple work together in theatre. While Nick operates, Orla is a master of chat! She distracted me with a ton of questions and they equally shared about their lives too. The time went by so quickly. It felt like a counselling session where you are asked a zillion questions and by the time you have answered all, time was up. I think they learned everything about my life, family, work before I retired, etc. Imagine Oprah delving into your private life for 2 hours! Lol. If anything I was afraid my talking may affect my results as I would have thought a surgeon would want me to keep my mouth as still as possible. Thank goodness he had done 100s before me. I was also amazed at how he knew how much to pull and trim as my face was full of 40ccs of anaesthetic fluid! How did he know not to pull too tight to avoid cross cheek depression joker lines and enough so it would lift and get rid of the jowls? I guess it is down to experience. I apologised after the surgery as I think I shared too much of my private life! Lol.
> 
> Equally I got to learn more about the couple and their family and what motivates them. They were both maxillofacial surgeons when they met and he went on to specialise in plastic surgery and she raised the family and manages the clinic. Their ethos is to help ladies reverse aging and look the best they can be at the most affordable prices possible. None of this malarkey of charging £15-29k for a facelift or that of the U.S. charging $50-$120k. His wife sets the prices and because she is a woman and was a surgeon, she understands how aging affects ladies mentally and does everything she can to make it affordable for ladies up North or for ladies who travel up to York. There is definitely a bias between London plastic surgeons and surgeons up North. Most London surgeons think they are superior to surgeons up North yet Nick is an example of a surgeon up North who is incredibly skilled. When I sat my surgical exams I noticed that surgeons with a posh accent had an easier time passing the surgical exams in London and those without a posh upper class accent had to sit and pass their exams in Scotland or Ireland. I think they are brilliant as they are showing up the London surgeons by showing how good he is and he is not charging a fortune like Kent or London surgeons down south. It reminds me of the bias in Seoul vs Busan. I noticed Nick does not flaunt himself on Instagram like other global surgeons but instead is humble and hides from the spotlight. He focuses on his trade and he has a unique talent. I really enjoyed the one hour he spent with me at consult discussing everything from sutures to placement etc. The fact that he gives his time for free for consults, is incredible in a world where surgeons charge for everything! He even invites consultant plastic surgeons to watch him operate or to spend the day with him. Imagine allowing potential competitors access to his skills! I met one such surgeon when I went for my 9 day postop visit and the look on his face when I said I was 55 and looked much younger thanks to Nick. His jaw dropped to the floor. I wished to find a surgeon who could do a bullhorn lip lift for my face, ie lift the face, soft tissues and muscles under local with longlasting results and found that in Nick. Both Nick and Caroline trained in maxillofacial surgery. Interesting coincidence.
> 
> Here are his transparent and affordable prices. https://www.coppergateclinic.co.uk/price-list


sorry i am confused. Who is orla? See I was awake during the last 10mins of my rhinoplasty with Dr Park. But I was still under the effects of ketamine (Sleep sedation) so I was a idaf mode. Plus I was semi high. Did he only use local anesthesia? Or did he administer some kind of relaxant or ketamine into your iv. You did have an iv yeh?


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## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> sorry i am confused. Who is orla? See I was awake during the last 10mins of my rhinoplasty with Dr Park. But I was still under the effects of ketamine (Sleep sedation) so I was a idaf mode. Plus I was semi high. Did he only use local anesthesia? Or did he administer some kind of relaxant or ketamine into your iv. You did have an iv yeh?


Hi @K Couture, Orla is his wife who used to be a maxillofacial surgeon herself and she is the clinic manager and also sits through the operations done under local. No ketamine. He only used local anaesthetic via facial injections and filling the face with anaesthetic fluid. No iv.

He has since built an operating theatre equipped for full general anaesthetic with intubation by a consultant anaesthetist. The anaesthetist can also offer iv twilight sedation if a patient prefers not to be intubated. He says he chose an anaesthetist with intensive care background too.


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## MissOrange

In one week I have my follow up appointment at the NHS burns unit. I see the burns surgeon who repaired my third degree ktp laser burn and is also the clinical lead for laser treatment for scars. I am torn between getting CO2 laser or not for my periareolar scars. My choices are live with wide, pigmented scars or try CO2 laser and risk complications as I have very thin skin compared to Caucasian skin. This article shows an amazing result with CO2 laser and the before photos are exactly like what I have now, a year after surgical repair. I have tried 2 rounds of steroid injections which has helped flatten the scars but has not improved the wideness and pigmentation. I shall print off and ask the burns surgeon if this is possible for my scars.


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## Gats

@MissOrange Have you heard of Miso Sarang Clinic in Korea? I came across their YouTube channel, they specialize in burn scars. I'm not sure they've treated patients with your particular type of burn though, you may want to have a look through their videos to see if they could help your case: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBoYY4ui6IMjMxRh0WrxKWg/featured


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## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @K Couture, Orla is his wife who used to be a maxillofacial surgeon herself and she is the clinic manager and also sits through the operations done under local. No ketamine. He only used local anaesthetic via facial injections and filling the face with anaesthetic fluid. No iv.
> 
> He has since built an operating theatre equipped for full general anaesthetic with intubation by a consultant anaesthetist. The anaesthetist can also offer iv twilight sedation if a patient prefers not to be intubated. He says he chose an anaesthetist with intensive care background too.


very interesting. Also i dunno if i could handle what u did lol. I would probably get a panic attack. I do notice tho that in western countries they tend to prefer to use local when possible. I have a friend in australia who her breast locally via local anesthesia. She was said she could feel the surgeon's hand in her, how disturbing. I think it comes down to cost and infrastructure, since its alot more expensive to have a facility fitted for iv sedation and ga + the permits and liscenses involved on top of having to hire a certified anaesthesiologist.

Also regarding your scars, have you tried autologous stem cell? Ive seen in korea where they treated a severely acid burn victim from myanmar using autologous stem cell. Considering the damage it was very effective.


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## MissOrange

Gats said:


> @MissOrange Have you heard of Miso Sarang Clinic in Korea? I came across their YouTube channel, they specialize in burn scars. I'm not sure they've treated patients with your particular type of burn though, you may want to have a look through their videos to see if they could help your case: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBoYY4ui6IMjMxRh0WrxKWg/featured


Wow! Thank you @Gats! I remember the lady in charge at Dr Hong’s Fresh clinic looking at my periareolar breast lift hypertrophic scars and frowning thinking U.K. plastic surgeons must be so bad as in Korea I know they would take extra precautions to leave as minimal a scar as possible. That was January 2020. It is extremely difficult to show my scars and when I got the laser burn by Dr H last year in an attempt to fix my hypertrophic scars, it left me with horrific burn scars on my right side. It was so surreal watching my flesh disappear daily and almost losing my nipple. When the NHS burns unit took me to theatre to debride and close the open burn wound, I was so grateful. But after 2 sets of steroid injections, I am back to hypertrophic and pigmented scars. The problem is the nature of the original operation, ie any periareolar lift relies on placing too much tension on the nipple skin with lack of support from underlying muscles because there are none there. Only a full lift could provide support. Never ever have this mini lift also known as periareolar or donut lift! The saying mini lift equates to wide scar is so true as it relies purely on skin tension closure and more so with pursestring sutures. The reason why I have no scars after bullhorn and face lift is because the closure is supported by muscle tightening and soft tissue sutures so there is no tension on the skin closure so it is just a matter of placing fine skin sutures under zero tension.

Thank you @Gats for giving me hope. Looks like Miso is the best in Korea for treating scars. I think I shall hear what the laser/burns specialist at the NHS burns unit says next Wednesday. If I get CO2 laser and it works then brilliant. If I get it done and it gets worse, then I need to consult Miso in Korea. If only I could turn back time and have my explant and full lift with David Floyd instead of go to Birmingham and end up with a swapped op while under anaesthesia.

Miso Sarang Clinic results are amazing on youtube!


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## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> very interesting. Also i dunno if i could handle what u did lol. I would probably get a panic attack. I do notice tho that in western countries they tend to prefer to use local when possible. I have a friend in australia who her breast locally via local anesthesia. She was said she could feel the surgeon's hand in her, how disturbing. I think it comes down to cost and infrastructure, since its alot more expensive to have a facility fitted for iv sedation and ga + the permits and liscenses involved on top of having to hire a certified anaesthesiologist.
> 
> Also regarding your scars, have you tried autologous stem cell? Ive seen in korea where they treated a severely acid burn victim from myanmar using autologous stem cell. Considering the damage it was very effective.


Hi @K Couture, thank you for your input. No the NHS has not suggested autologous stem cell. I think the U.K. may be a tad behind Asia in skin treatments and scar management. But I am under the only NHS burns unit servicing all London hospitals so it has to be the best London has to offer. I shall exhaust what they have to offer first before resorting to flying out to Asia as a last resort. The burns surgeon wanted to treat me with CO2 laser but I was suffering PTSD from the KTP third degree burn. It has taken a year now to reconsider laser but this time with a board certified plastic surgeon and not a doctor with no board certification.


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## MissOrange

What a journey I have had between July 2016 (age 50 made beautiful by MVP clinic in Korea) and enjoying a beautiful Korean face for a few days before I wrecked it with bad facial fat graft (bottom photo on the right with bruising and injection marks coming back to my hotel room from DA clinic) to September 2021 (with and without makeup at age 55) when I finally got back as close to that July 2016 face that I regretted touching with fat graft and weeping in Korea beating myself up for ruining a perfectly fine face. Maybe all I ever needed was a mini facelift and not 5 full facial fat grafts. Or maybe the good facial fat grafts stopped me from ageing in 5 years? I am not touching my face even with botox for crows feet or tca peel. Learned my lesson to leave well enough alone and to know when to stop. As for the fat graft still in my face, I just need to avoid msg as yes it still causes the fat cells in my cheeks to swell and I am not going to risk facial lipo to get it out. I guess the upside is I am now ahead of the game with a face full of transplanted fat cells to cope with low oestrogen. The fat cells should keep my face full as the facial bones continue to shrink in my 60s and 70s. What I fear most is the shrinking of the mandible in old age but I shall park that to one side. I have survived 55 so the next hurdle will be 60.


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## asymitri

K Couture said:


> Actually, there's a high risk of fat graft migrating due to movement when compared to filler. One reason is because unlike filler, it needs to be overfilled because the surgeon always needs to assume some fat cells will die. You arent actually transplanting fat, you are grafting fat CELLS. The newly administered fat cells need time to develop new blood vessels in the new location in order to survive, and not all of the cells will survive. The nasolabial folds is essentially a skin flap, with no underlying structure, which is why its one of the first areas to be visible due to aging. To add, movement in the nasio fold region is high due to you talking smiling laughing etc, which greatly lowers survivability of the fat cells. Hence surgeons tend to overfill a bit more for that region to mitigate this which can end up leading to migration during the early weeks as the fat cells are not as stiff as a filler. To add, if you have fat which migrates you are gonna have a hell of a time trying to get rid of it. Its not as simple as "3cc of fat shifted to this part so im going to lipo 3 cc of fat out". You wont know exactly where the fat went to and neither will the surgeon. Its only a visual approximation. And the surgeon can't suck out the exact amount and may end up taking out too little or too much, including your own natural fat. So it can end up becoming a yo-yo battle.
> 
> Filler is much easier to deal with and in the event of an overfill or migration (which happens less often), simply dissolve it with one injection. Yields the same results too



ohh I see. thank you so much for explaining this! I appreciate it. filler kind of scares me to be honest. I may just try fat grafting to the forehead and not to the paranasal area... so I guess my other options would be a bone graft (which supposedly is a procedure that isn't done often to the paranasal area unless if you have a deformity) or paranasal implants (but people say it can change your smile...)


----------



## asymitri

pumpkin77 said:


> h
> 
> Hi @asymitri, I have actually tried fat graft for more 3dimensional volume on my face. Like many wise/knowledged/experienced forumers said above, there can be pros n cons. What I heard was that is why fat graft was originally meant to be 2 times(touch up they call it), making it more ideal for locals in convenience reasons. Mild one for the first time, for the doctor to know your absorption rate and etc. Then fulfilling it with the second one. I was uncomfortable with the idea of fillers in my face and I also had the blessed flexibility to visit korea again in 5months at that time so I went for the fat graft.(same price including the 2nd touch).



ahh I see. that makes sense! thank you for sharing this with me. I think I will have the chance to visit korea again next year (around 6-9 months later if I end up going to Korea this fall).

where did you get fat grafting to in your face? and how long would you say it took to go from looking "overly plump" (like very round, recently injected look) to more normal looking haha?


----------



## asymitri

MissOrange said:


> What a journey I have had between July 2016 (age 50 made beautiful by MVP clinic in Korea) and enjoying a beautiful Korean face for a few days before I wrecked it with bad facial fat graft (bottom photo on the right with bruising and injection marks coming back to my hotel room from DA clinic) to September 2021 (with and without makeup at age 55) when I finally got back as close to that July 2016 face that I regretted touching with fat graft and weeping in Korea beating myself up for ruining a perfectly fine face. Maybe all I ever needed was a mini facelift and not 5 full facial fat grafts. Or maybe the good facial fat grafts stopped me from ageing in 5 years? I am not touching my face even with botox for crows feet or tca peel. Learned my lesson to leave well enough alone and to know when to stop. As for the fat graft still in my face, I just need to avoid msg as yes it still causes the fat cells in my cheeks to swell and I am not going to risk facial lipo to get it out. I guess the upside is I am now ahead of the game with a face full of transplanted fat cells to cope with low oestrogen. The fat cells should keep my face full as the facial bones continue to shrink in my 60s and 70s. What I fear most is the shrinking of the mandible in old age but I shall park that to one side. I have survived 55 so the next hurdle will be 60.
> 
> View attachment 5216133
> 
> 
> View attachment 5216150


" 5 full facial fat grafts "

When did you get full facial fat grafts? And how often?


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## MissOrange

asymitri said:


> " 5 full facial fat grafts "
> 
> When did you get full facial fat grafts? And how often?


Hi @asymitri, I had 3 with DAPRS clinic also known as DA in July, Sept 2016 and April 2017. Then I had 2 with MVP in Feb 2018 and Jan 2020.


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## asymitri

MissOrange said:


> Hi @asymitri, I had 3 with DAPRS clinic also known as DA in July, Sept 2016 and April 2017. Then I had 2 with MVP in Feb 2018 and Jan 2020.


ohh ok. why did you think you got a bad fat graft before? is it because you bruised and it's not normal to bruise from fg? I would assume you looked fine once the bruises went away right?


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## MissOrange

@LostClock Here is my day 81 video. I have added my facelift journey videos to my YouTube channel. 
Una's vertical facelift journey day 81


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## K Couture

asymitri said:


> ohh I see. thank you so much for explaining this! I appreciate it. filler kind of scares me to be honest. I may just try fat grafting to the forehead and not to the paranasal area... so I guess my other options would be a bone graft (which supposedly is a procedure that isn't done often to the paranasal area unless if you have a deformity) or paranasal implants (but people say it can change your smile...)


why would filler scare you? You just dissolve it if you dont like it. Its a better alternative for the naso folds than fg. Paranasal implant is a nono. You can feel the implant when you speak and it has a risk of being displaced


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## asymitri

K Couture said:


> why would filler scare you? You just dissolve it if you dont like it. Its a better alternative for the naso folds than fg. Paranasal implant is a nono. You can feel the implant when you speak and it has a risk of being displaced


I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link this youtube video, but I watched videos from plastic surgeons saying that filler never goes away completely even if you try dissolving it. I guess I'm worried about the filler moving to other parts of my face. For example, if I got filler on my nose, it would eventually move along the side of my bridge and end up making my nose look wider. If I put filler in the paranasal area (which I'm sure would look nice at first) it will also move too since the paranasal area has a lot of movement. I'm not sure where the filler will end up migrating to  maybe it will go to my cheeks or my upper lip (not the lip area, but the skin part) and make my mouth look like it's protruding more.


----------



## K Couture

asymitri said:


> I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link this youtube video, but I watched videos from plastic surgeons saying that filler never goes away completely even if you try dissolving it. I guess I'm worried about the filler moving to other parts of my face. For example, if I got filler on my nose, it would eventually move along the side of my bridge and end up making my nose look wider. If I put filler in the paranasal area (which I'm sure would look nice at first) it will also move too since the paranasal area has a lot of movement. I'm not sure where the filler will end up migrating to  maybe it will go to my cheeks or my upper lip (not the lip area, but the skin part) and make my mouth look like it's protruding more.



Ah this is true. A small amount of the filler will remain. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing to be honest when used in paranasal region. But for the nose bridge, its horrible. actually when i inject my filler, i deliberately administer is 1-2mm inwards a little to expect some degree of migration during the first few days before it settles


----------



## LostClock

MissOrange said:


> @LostClock Here is my day 81 video. I have added my facelift journey videos to my YouTube channel.
> Una's vertical facelift journey day 81



Thank you for all of the videos! It was nice seeing your face "in action" so to speak.


----------



## asymitri

K Couture said:


> Ah this is true. A small amount of the filler will remain. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing to be honest when used in paranasal region. But for the nose bridge, its horrible. actually when i inject my filler, i deliberately administer is 1-2mm inwards a little to expect some degree of migration during the first few days before it settles


I guess I'm worried about the paranasal area because if it ends up in the area on the sides of my nose (like cheek area but by the nose), my nose will look even more sunken in and recessed from my side profile.


----------



## K Couture

asymitri said:


> I guess I'm worried about the paranasal area because if it ends up in the area on the sides of my nose (like cheek area but by the nose), my nose will look even more sunken in and recessed from my side profile.



I think you will have far more risk of that when it comes to fat grafting. And you will have extreme difficulty removing it too. With filler its very simple. Even if some remains its such a tiny amount its not an issue. Additionally, your surgeon / dermatologist should inject it very deep in the face, preferably just above the bone to minimize risk of it shifting. Often the risk of shifting is when it is administered in the superficial layers


----------



## glowup2021

@MissOrange congrats on your facelift, hope everything is going well.

@K Couture @MissOrange 

I was wondering if you both had any fat grafting surgeon recommendations in SK for those in their 20s that have very low volume in their faces?


----------



## K Couture

glowup2021 said:


> @MissOrange congrats on your facelift, hope everything is going well.
> 
> @K Couture @MissOrange
> 
> I was wondering if you both had any fat grafting surgeon recommendations in SK for those in their 20s that have very low volume in their faces?


I personally wouldnt recommend any particular surgeon for fat grafting simply because its a procedure that doesnt require a specialization. I've done fat grafting with different surgeons all with good results. It really doesnt matter for a procedure like that, just like how it doesn't make sense to go specifically looking for a surgeon that is skilled at liposuction because that doesn't mean anything really. All you need is a board certified plastic surgeon with an understanding of facial anatomy, which almost every plastic surgeons would. Never go to a GP doctor for this. A few clinics in korea are run by gp doctors. In korea gp doctors can legally perform lipo and fat grafting. But you should avoid them at all costs as they have different training to plastic surgeons.


----------



## MissOrange

glowup2021 said:


> @MissOrange congrats on your facelift, hope everything is going well.
> 
> @K Couture @MissOrange
> 
> I was wondering if you both had any fat grafting surgeon recommendations in SK for those in their 20s that have very low volume in their faces?


Hi @glowup2021 I can recommend Dr Seo, now at Machimpyo, who did 2 of my facial fat transfers and Dr Hong of Fresh seems to get good results too but he is not a board certified plastic surgeon so maybe Dr Seo is best.

I would not recommend Dr Kim at DA clinic as his results were variable for my 3 facial fat transfers so I suspected I may have had a shadow doctor. Don't be trapped by prepaying for 2 fat transfers as the top up may be done by someone else or you may not like the results of the first transfer but be stuck as you prepaid for 2 like I did.


----------



## MissOrange

For ladies researching facelifts, here is the classic cross-cheek depression sign of a bad facelift seen on Wilderstein.


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## MissOrange

A plastic surgeon gives a good summary of signs of a bad facelift from wide visible scars to pixie ears and too stretched skin showing a cross-cheek depression line. Choose your surgeon wisely. The most expensive may not necessarily be the best but rather a better salesman.


----------



## asymitri

K Couture said:


> I think you will have far more risk of that when it comes to fat grafting. And you will have extreme difficulty removing it too. With filler its very simple. Even if some remains its such a tiny amount its not an issue. Additionally, your surgeon / dermatologist should inject it very deep in the face, preferably just above the bone to minimize risk of it shifting. Often the risk of shifting is when it is administered in the superficial layers


oh ok, thank you for your reassurance. after someone mentioned that fat would move around more in the paranasal area, I stopped considering that as an option. I think I will either use an implant or filler in the paranasal area.


----------



## K Couture

asymitri said:


> oh ok, thank you for your reassurance. after someone mentioned that fat would move around more in the paranasal area, I stopped considering that as an option. I think I will either use an implant or filler in the paranasal area.


Im just letting you know about implant, MAJORITY and i mean MAJORITY of patients who get the paranasal implant always get it removed. Main reason is the sensation of feeling the implant there whenever you talk, whenever you eat whenever you drink. Its very uncomfortable. The only ones who actually keep it in are the ones who use it not so much for the nasolabial folds, but the ones who use it for bone deficiencies, whereby the implant is used for its original purpose, to volumize the sunken region surrounding the alar for patients who have such a condition (bone deficienct). Most patients do not have those conditions. You could almost say using it for the naso labial folds is an off label usage similar to the way loniten is used for hair loss at times when the intention of the drug is to regulate blood pressure. Remember, the naso folds is merely a skin flap with no underlying bone structure. Hence why filler works best for it.


----------



## pumpkin77

asymitri said:


> ahh I see. that makes sense! thank you for sharing this with me. I think I will have the chance to visit korea again next year (around 6-9 months later if I end up going to Korea this fall).
> 
> where did you get fat grafting to in your face? and how long would you say it took to go from looking "overly plump" (like very round, recently injected look) to more normal looking haha?


You are welcome! it was about 2weeks time for the first time-> got more natural n almost to my liking after like a month-> too "natural", more absorption over 3months... told this to the doc on my second touch, i was swollen+all too full for about 3weeks this time-> got scared cuz this time, it didnt go super natural even after a month!‐> to my liking after about 2month time. Got to a point where I think it's too little but all my friends saying it is perfect after about 3months n pretty same from here on. maybe i got used to my over-puffy face and that's why i find it too natural like my friend is telling me.. lol


----------



## pumpkin77

asymitri said:


> ahh I see. that makes sense! thank you for sharing this with me. I think I will have the chance to visit korea again next year (around 6-9 months later if I end up going to Korea this fall).
> 
> where did you get fat grafting to in your face? and how long would you say it took to go from looking "overly plump" (like very round, recently injected look) to more normal looking haha?


oh the clinic! I'm sorry I am still kind of new here and am not sure. Is it ok for me to just write the clinic name here? I don't want to be accused of anything.. ?


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> Im just letting you know about implant, MAJORITY and i mean MAJORITY of patients who get the paranasal implant always get it removed. Main reason is the sensation of feeling the implant there whenever you talk, whenever you eat whenever you drink. Its very uncomfortable. The only ones who actually keep it in are the ones who use it not so much for the nasolabial folds, but the ones who use it for bone deficiencies, whereby the implant is used for its original purpose, to volumize the sunken region surrounding the alar for patients who have such a condition (bone deficienct). Most patients do not have those conditions. You could almost say using it for the naso labial folds is an off label usage similar to the way loniten is used for hair loss at times when the intention of the drug is to regulate blood pressure. Remember, the naso folds is merely a skin flap with no underlying bone structure. Hence why filler works best for it.


Good to know @K Couture. This explains why my 2 premaxilla gortex implants failed and I had them removed. It raised my bony deficient maxilla under my nose but it got infected. I do notice ladies seem to want paranasal implants for nasolabial folds. I agree it is too extreme and interesting how most have them removed in the end. Removal would leave the ladies with stretched skin. This may need lifting. My philtrum skin ended up very stretched after the implant was removed. The bullhorn lip lift fixed this. 

I had fillers in my nasolabial folds injected in my 40s. Now I do not need fillers or fat graft as the facelift removed my nasolabial lines. I think the rib rhino also helped as Ion built up my maxilla at the base of the columella with rib cartilage.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is my day 99 post facelift video made yesterday.


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## J Cn

Your facelift result is great!

Where are you going in the UK to get your burn scar treated? I have a burn scar from when I was a child and I am looking to get it fixed in the UK.


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## MissOrange

J Cn said:


> Your facelift result is great!
> 
> Where are you going in the UK to get your burn scar treated? I have a burn scar from when I was a child and I am looking to get it fixed in the UK.


Hi @J Cn thanks! Sorry to hear you have a burn scar from childhood. I have my burns clinic appointment in 3 hours time at the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London. It is the only NHS burns unit that services all of London. Thus far they have debrided and closed the third degree laser burn and administered 2 lots of steroid injections. I shall ask today whether I need a third steroid injection or try CO2 laser. The steroid injections have helped flatten the hypertrophic scars.


----------



## J Cn

MissOrange said:


> Hi @J Cn thanks! Sorry to hear you have a burn scar from childhood. I have my burns clinic appointment in 3 hours time at the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London. It is the only NHS burns unit that services all of London. Thus far they have debrided and closed the third degree laser burn and administered 2 lots of steroid injections. I shall ask today whether I need a third steroid injection or try CO2 laser. The steroid injections have helped flatten the hypertrophic scars.


Thanks MissOrange. How did you get access to their services?


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## MissOrange

Hi @J Cn,

I was sent to Chelsea and Westminster Hospital A&E by my GP for third degree laser burn last year.

I have just come back from the burns unit and had CO2 laser to my right periareolar area 6-9 pm! If tolerated I get the entire periareolar scar lasered next visit.


J Cn said:


> Thanks MissOrange. How did you get access to their services?


----------



## queen82

MissOrange said:


> Here is my day 99 post facelift video made yesterday.



omg thank you for sharing and you look amazing!! I am sorry if this is already well-known already but may I ask where and which surgeon you got your face lift from?? Thank you!


----------



## MissOrange

queen82 said:


> omg thank you for sharing and you look amazing!! I am sorry if this is already well-known already but may I ask where and which surgeon you got your face lift from?? Thank you!


Hi @queen82, thanks! I got this face lift from Dr Nick Rhodes, a board certified plastic surgeon in the town of York, in the U.K. I took a 2 hour train from London and his clinic is walking distance from the rail station. I stayed at a travelodge halfway between the rail station and clinic for my op. I found a fantastic Chinese restaurant closeby that served the best duck noodles I have ever tasted! He can do free zoom consults for those overseas. He doesn’t accept everyone so if you are lucky to have him agree to do your facelift, then it is like winning a golden ticket as he charges only £3995 now and that includes a free goodie bag including dressings and antibiotics! No extra charge and no consult charge either. Incredible. Every day I notice what it is like to look beautiful! I had a grocery delivery to the door and as I took out the items from the crate, the delivery guy stood there and kept staring at my face! I thought what’s wrong with my face? And then forgot my face is now pretty! Men stare at pretty faces! Lol. https://www.coppergateclinic.co.uk/about-us/specialists/mr-nick-rhodes


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## MissOrange

Hi @queen82, it is good to keep some ugly befores because one forgets after getting a new face! Here is a b&a that shows what a difference a vertical vector smas facelift can make. An incredible transformation for £3495! No paying £15k, £29k, $50k, $120k. Why are we paying men to be multimillionaires??? I found a surgeon who wants to help ladies look good again and charges the bare minimum to cover costs!


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## glowup2021

MissOrange said:


> Hi @queen82, thanks! I got this face lift from Dr Nick Rhodes, a board certified plastic surgeon in the town of York, in the U.K. I took a 2 hour train from London and his clinic is walking distance from the rail station. I stayed at a travelodge halfway between the rail station and clinic for my op. I found a fantastic Chinese restaurant closeby that served the best duck noodles I have ever tasted! He can do free zoom consults for those overseas. He doesn’t accept everyone so if you are lucky to have him agree to do your facelift, then it is like winning a golden ticket as he charges only £3995 now and that includes a free goodie bag including dressings and antibiotics! No extra charge and no consult charge either. Incredible. Every day I notice what it is like to look beautiful! I had a grocery delivery to the door and as I took out the items from the crate, the delivery guy stood there and kept staring at my face! I thought what’s wrong with my face? And then forgot my face is now pretty! Men stare at pretty faces! Lol. https://www.coppergateclinic.co.uk/about-us/specialists/mr-nick-rhodes



Amazing, did he say why he charges such a fantastic rate?

He also offers fat transfer Full Face From £1,995! I wonder if he's good at that as well.


----------



## queen82

MissOrange said:


> Hi @queen82, it is good to keep some ugly befores because one forgets after getting a new face! Here is a b&a that shows what a difference a vertical vector smas facelift can make. An incredible transformation for £3495! No paying £15k, £29k, $50k, $120k. Why are we paying men to be multimillionaires??? I found a surgeon who wants to help ladies look good again and charges the bare minimum to cover costs!


Hey~~ you already did have a cute face with younger features! But the lifting sure did add that fine touch on it! Thank you for sharing the pictures and wow.  the price. really. That is an amazing deal! UK is too far for me but he does sound like a decent doctor!


----------



## MissOrange

Hi @J Cn

Today is day 2 after CO2 laser to my periareolar scar. Looking promising! I have put together photos of before showing the wide pinkish red scar, then day 1 when I freaked out, then today day 2. I googled CO2 aftercare so between pics 2 and 3 applied copious amounts of vaseline and covered loosely with a melolin dressing.

If this works, ladies will be queueing up for CO2 laser with Dr Declan Collins, the board certified consultant plastic surgeon with special interest in burns and laser treatment of scars! He said final results should show by 14 days. Fingers crossed! He said the stronger CO2 laser takes 2-3 goes at 5-6 month intervals and that IPL which is milder and does not need local anaesthesia takes 6 goes at monthly intervals. I chose CO2 as nhs appointments are spaced out between 2 and 5 months.

Steroid injections flattened the raised hypertrophic scars but then once flattened, it spread and looked wide and pink as per pic 1. So maybe treat scars with steroid injections first to flatten and then CO2 laser to remove the wide pink scar colour? Mr Collins has a private practice too in London.


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## Transformation2021

I have to say I'm impressed with this vertical restore facelift. He didn't even touch her nose and she still looks so spectacular, a real mother to daughter result.


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## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> I have to say I'm impressed with this vertical restore facelift. He didn't even touch her nose and she still looks so spectacular, a real mother to daughter result.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5226481


Hi @Transformation2021 I like Amir Karam's results but the price in San Diego may be unaffordable for many. Do you know how much he charges?


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## MissOrange

I have been watching the K drama Boys over Flowers about a poor, short, unattractive Korean girl attending a prestigious private high school on a full scholarship. I thought wow rings a bell and pulled my school photo from age 16, short, unattractive and poor attending a prestigious private high school in USA. If I can transform then so can you!

I then looked at a recent collage of me at age 55.5. Some people look better as they age with a little bit of help!


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## MissOrange

I will never have facial fat graft ever again. When I flew to Korea in Jan 2020, View, Girin and Namu all said I needed a facelift. They were all correct. I liked Namu the best as the surgeon was adamant I did not need bone contouring, ie zygoma reduction. He wanted to do a smas FL for 9 million won including accusculpt to remove excess cheek fat. Had I proceeded it would have given me a great natural result as his many b&a's of Westerners showed refreshed and rejuvenated faces and the consultant wanted to show me the many thank you emails they got for his facelifts. But at the time I was not ready to spend 9 million won. Here I am back in Jan 2020 sitting in a View waiting room taking a photo of my mirror reflection. Pretty obvious I needed a facelift.

Why did I need a lower facelift? I think it is because I had full face fat grafts. After each cycle the skin is stretched, more so with swelling and then when it goes down, looks great temporarily until the fat dissolves and one is left with a deflated face with resultant lower face skin sagging. I think fat graft only works for foreheads and upper eyelid hollows.

The next photo is after arriving back in the UK after flying 2 days after full face fat transfer. Flying between days 2 and 3 when swelling is at its worse only aggravates the swelling. Because I have had fat grafts before I knew the swelling distortion would go away but even my OH could not bear to look at my grotesque face which resembled a guest on Botched.

2.5 weeks later the swelling was gone but then I was left with an even more deflated and sagging face. I used water consumption and smiling to lift up my face from 2020-2021 until I realised I needed to stop the cycle of full face fat grafts and instead fix the stretched skin with a face lift.

I know some of you are exploring full face fat graft but in my opinion it should only be done to the top third of your face.

I think Madonna may have had full face fat graft as with weight gain, the fat grafted cells in the face swell and cause the eyes and nose to look a lot smaller and cheeks wider.

Let this be a cautionary tale. Thank goodness I got a facelift 18 months after my trip to Korea to cut off the excess stretched skin and pull up my smas. Now my OH and I can bear to look at my face. Last photo is the home cam taking a photo. The distorted swollen face was also taken by the home cam so the comparison is quite telling.


----------



## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> I will never have facial fat graft ever again. When I flew to Korea in Jan 2020, View, Girin and Namu all said I needed a facelift. They were all correct. I liked Namu the best as the surgeon was adamant I did not need bone contouring, ie zygoma reduction. He wanted to do a smas FL for 9 million won including accusculpt to remove excess cheek fat. Had I proceeded it would have given me a great natural result as his many b&a's of Westerners showed refreshed and rejuvenated faces and the consultant wanted to show me the many thank you emails they got for his facelifts. But at the time I was not ready to spend 9 million won. Here I am back in Jan 2020 sitting in a View waiting room taking a photo of my mirror reflection. Pretty obvious I needed a facelift.
> 
> Why did I need a lower facelift? I think it is because I had full face fat grafts. After each cycle the skin is stretched, more so with swelling and then when it goes down, looks great temporarily until the fat dissolves and one is left with a deflated face with resultant lower face skin sagging. I think fat graft only works for foreheads and upper eyelid hollows.
> 
> The next photo is after arriving back in the UK after flying 2 days after full face fat transfer. Flying between days 2 and 3 when swelling is at its worse only aggravates the swelling. Because I have had fat grafts before I knew the swelling distortion would go away but even my OH could not bear to look at my grotesque face which resembled a guest on Botched.
> 
> 2.5 weeks later the swelling was gone but then I was left with an even more deflated and sagging face. I used water consumption and smiling to lift up my face from 2020-2021 until I realised I needed to stop the cycle of full face fat grafts and instead fix the stretched skin with a face lift.
> 
> I know some of you are exploring full face fat graft but in my opinion it should only be done to the top third of your face.
> 
> I think Madonna may have had full face fat graft as with weight gain, the fat grafted cells in the face swell and cause the eyes and nose to look a lot smaller and cheeks wider.
> 
> Let this be a cautionary tale. Thank goodness I got a facelift 18 months after my trip to Korea to cut off the excess stretched skin and pull up my smas. Now my OH and I can bear to look at my face. Last photo is the home cam taking a photo. The distorted swollen face was also taken by the home cam so the comparison is quite telling.
> 
> View attachment 5228007
> 
> 
> View attachment 5228012
> 
> 
> View attachment 5228014
> 
> 
> View attachment 5228015
> 
> 
> View attachment 5228018


Hello Miss Orange, you look absolutely stunning by the way after your facelift! Can I ask what is the name of the good surgeon you saw for consultation at Namu please? I know that in SK are the best at not leaving visible scars? I am 38 and been contemplaiting. Also I wanted to ask if there is anything that can be done to lift a bit the mouth corners. Mine are a bit down since I was a baby, and of course it got worse with age. Many thanks in advance.


----------



## HopefulGB

@MissOrange Hello! Would you still recommend your bullhorn lip lift doctor Caroline Mills for lip lifts? I was interested in Dr Mascaro but my consultation isn’t until 11/2022 and my projected surgical date is 7 months after my consultation. I find that to be a very long wait and I would much rather forward with another surgeon that is just as good. Please let me know your thoughts. I live in the USA and I don’t mind travel anywhere for my beauty maintenance. Ladies chime in if you have any bullhorn lip lift surgeons that you recommend! thank you in-advance!


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## JLeeLee91

Wow, you look amazing. I can't believe you are almost 51 Miss Orange. 
Thank you for sharing your tips.

I bet you also have a very good skincare routine . Any tips on that are most welcome.


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## Moon88

hello Miss Orange, great to see you here, I followed your posts many years ago before I visited Korea for PS. Now I'm thinking to do facial contour surgery, I wanted to have my face done at TLPS but TLPS closed down. Do you have any recomendation?


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## Moon88

hello Miss Orange, great to see you here, I followed your posts many years ago before I visited Korea for PS. Now I'm thinking to do facial contour surgery, I wanted to have my face done at TLPS but TLPS closed down. Do you have any recomendation?


----------



## MissOrange

Moon88 said:


> hello Miss Orange, great to see you here, I followed your posts many years ago before I visited Korea for PS. Now I'm thinking to do facial contour surgery, I wanted to have my face done at TLPS but TLPS closed down. Do you have any recomendation?


Hi @Moon88, wow TLPS closed down? Wow! The big clinics for facial contouring are View, EU dental and smaller clinics Girin and Namu. But with facial contouring one definitely needs a facelift. Here is Namu’s b&a for facial contouring. Dr Kirk refused me zygoma reduction as he said I only needed a facelift. I liked his honesty. Girin has really impressive results too on Instagram.


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## MissOrange

JLeeLee91 said:


> Wow, you look amazing. I can't believe you are almost 51 Miss Orange.
> Thank you for sharing your tips.
> 
> I bet you also have a very good skincare routine . Any tips on that are most welcome.


@JLeeLee91 thanks. I am 55.5 years old now. I may well have been almost 50 at the start of this long thread! Glad my tips are useful.


----------



## MissOrange

HopefulGB said:


> @MissOrange Hello! Would you still recommend your bullhorn lip lift doctor Caroline Mills for lip lifts? I was interested in Dr Mascaro but my consultation isn’t until 11/2022 and my projected surgical date is 7 months after my consultation. I find that to be a very long wait and I would much rather forward with another surgeon that is just as good. Please let me know your thoughts. I live in the USA and I don’t mind travel anywhere for my beauty maintenance. Ladies chime in if you have any bullhorn lip lift surgeons that you recommend! thank you in-advance!


Hi @HopefulGB, wow Mascaro is too popular! Can you not ask to be added to the cancellation list? Waiting until Nov 2022 for a consult and then June 2023 for the op is way too long! Sadly Miss Mills does not do private work anymore. Shame as no other surgeon would dare to trim 9 mms like she did for me which then allowed the upper lip to be everted and give me a full upper lip too. Lip lift surgeons tend to be too conservative and then one is left with thin lips and only a few mms trimmed off a sagging philtrum. There is only Mascaro in Florida and Osuch in Poland that I am aware of.


----------



## MissOrange

NewMe83 said:


> Hello Miss Orange, you look absolutely stunning by the way after your facelift! Can I ask what is the name of the good surgeon you saw for consultation at Namu please? I know that in SK are the best at not leaving visible scars? I am 38 and been contemplaiting. Also I wanted to ask if there is anything that can be done to lift a bit the mouth corners. Mine are a bit down since I was a baby, and of course it got worse with age. Many thanks in advance.


Hi @NewMe83, yes the surgeon is Dr In-Soo Kirk. Namu is his clinic. He has a separate male doctor anaesthetist and a female dermatologist who does the Botox and fillers. I was very impressed with this clinic. I hesitated as I was not prepared at that time to spend 9 million won and I was alone in Korea and worried how I could cope postop on my own. In hindsight aftercare is straight forward for a smas facelift. I would absolutely recommend Dr Kirk for smas facelift in Korea. Wow his website results are impressive! I just looked them up. Maybe I shall fly to Namu when I am in my 60s? Dr Kirk speaks fluent English as he spent part of his training at Johns Hopkins in the U.S.

I think what sold me on Dr Rhodes was the price, the huge improvement in the b&a facelifts he did and the fact I could recuperate at home in the U.K. and not spend over a week alone in Korea waiting to have the stitches out.

Here is Namu’s website. http://en.namups.com/document/SMAS-Face-Lift


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## MissOrange

Love this nasolabial chart. It is so true. The depth of your nasolabial folds suggests what age the public may view you as. Either radiesse dermal fillers or a good facelift can get rid of your nasolabial folds. I erased my nasolabial folds with radiesse in my 40s and a good facelift at age 55.


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## MissOrange

OMG the Merz scale of plastic surgery has assessed all the aspects of ageing from forehead lines, thickness of upper lip to ageing hands! Love this pictorial guide! https://plasticsurgerykey.com/standard-evaluation-of-the-patient-the-merz-scale/


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## MissOrange

Yay we have found another lip lift surgeon to add to the list. UK now has Dr Orfaniotis for £3,300.


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## MissOrange

On day 113 yesterday my weight was 99.8 lbs, just a lb more than on my surgery date when it was 98.8 lbs. I noticed I had gained weight post my facelift up to 101.4 lbs, almost 3 lbs more than on the day of my surgery, so my golden ratio score could not go into the perfect category until I tried to get my weight closer to the surgery day weight. I think it is imperative one try to maintain the same weight as when you had your facelift as that is the precise position your surgeon created for you at that weight on the day and gaining or losing weight may affect your face results! And wow! My score has now jumped to the perfect category! I am inching closer to a young Angelina Jolie’s perfect golden ratio face.


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> On day 113 yesterday my weight was 99.8 lbs, just a lb more than on my surgery date when it was 98.8 lbs. I noticed I had gained weight post my facelift up to 101.4 lbs, almost 3 lbs more than on the day of my surgery, so my golden ratio score could not go into the perfect category until I tried to get my weight closer to the surgery day weight. I think it is imperative one try to maintain the same weight as when you had your facelift as that is the precise position your surgeon created for you at that weight on the day and gaining or losing weight may affect your face results! And wow! My score has now jumped to the perfect category! I am inching closer to a young Angelina Jolie’s perfect golden ratio face.
> 
> View attachment 5233706
> View attachment 5233707



@MissOrange You are still looking good despite the weight gain!!! Don't stress over it! 

How's your arms after liposuction?

I am thinking of getting my arms lipo if I am going to Korea!


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange You are still looking good despite the weight gain!!! Don't stress over it!
> 
> How's your arms after liposuction?
> 
> I am thinking of getting my arms lipo if I am going to Korea!


Hi @Fortunecat, my upper arms are still skinny! Yay! Thank goodness as I truly want to stop anymore plastic surgeries. I had one op this year, ie the facelift and last year had 4 surgeries!!!


----------



## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> Hi @NewMe83, yes the surgeon is Dr In-Soo Kirk. Namu is his clinic. He has a separate male doctor anaesthetist and a female dermatologist who does the Botox and fillers. I was very impressed with this clinic. I hesitated as I was not prepared at that time to spend 9 million won and I was alone in Korea and worried how I could cope postop on my own. In hindsight aftercare is straight forward for a smas facelift. I would absolutely recommend Dr Kirk for smas facelift in Korea. Wow his website results are impressive! I just looked them up. Maybe I shall fly to Namu when I am in my 60s? Dr Kirk speaks fluent English as he spent part of his training at Johns Hopkins in the U.S.
> 
> I think what sold me on Dr Rhodes was the price, the huge improvement in the b&a facelifts he did and the fact I could recuperate at home in the U.K. and not spend over a week alone in Korea waiting to have the stitches out.
> 
> Here is Namu’s website. http://en.namups.com/document/SMAS-Face-Lift
> 
> View attachment 5229869


Million thanks for your reply Miss Orange, I really trust and value your expetise!


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> Hi @HopefulGB, wow Mascaro is too popular! Can you not ask to be added to the cancellation list? Waiting until Nov 2022 for a consult and then June 2023 for the op is way too long! Sadly Miss Mills does not do private work anymore. Shame as no other surgeon would dare to trim 9 mms like she did for me which then allowed the upper lip to be everted and give me a full upper lip too. Lip lift surgeons tend to be too conservative and then one is left with thin lips and only a few mms trimmed off a sagging philtrum. There is only Mascaro in Florida and Osuch in Poland that I am aware of.






Isn't this the most amazing lip lift EVER. Madonna at 63 for W Magazine. A lot of injectors now know how to inject Russian Lips so she's had that done too.


----------



## Transformation2021

HopefulGB said:


> @MissOrange Hello! Would you still recommend your bullhorn lip lift doctor Caroline Mills for lip lifts? I was interested in Dr Mascaro but my consultation isn’t until 11/2022 and my projected surgical date is 7 months after my consultation. I find that to be a very long wait and I would much rather forward with another surgeon that is just as good. Please let me know your thoughts. I live in the USA and I don’t mind travel anywhere for my beauty maintenance. Ladies chime in if you have any bullhorn lip lift surgeons that you recommend! thank you in-advance!


@HopefulGB 
Luckily you live in the US and Mascaro is not the only game in town. He's good but there are others just at good.

BELOW:
DrKassir on Insta. Dr Kassir Ramtin, NJ. 




BELOW: CaliforniaFaceSurgeon on Insta. Dr Almonte in Sacramento




BELOW:
LipLiftMD on Insta. Dr James Pearson, BHills and Hermosa Beach. His insta page under his name only has 1 or 2 photos. Go to LipLiftMD


----------



## NewMe83

Miss Orange, what is your opinion about the Foxy Eye/ Cat Eye lift surgery? Do you think is safe or long term?


----------



## jfghk

MissOrange said:


> @JLeeLee91 thanks. I am 55.5 years old now. I may well have been almost 50 at the start of this long thread! Glad my tips are useful.



Hi! My mom is 57 years old and wanting to get some work done, basically eyebags removal, ptosis correction and a facelift. What would you recommend? Would a ptosis correction be needed if a facelift is done? Thanks!


----------



## Transformation2021

jfghk said:


> Hi! My mom is 57 years old and wanting to get some work done, basically eyebags removal, ptosis correction and a facelift. What would you recommend? Would a ptosis correction be needed if a facelift is done? Thanks!


No way will a FL address ptosis


----------



## Transformation2021

NewMe83 said:


> Miss Orange, what is your opinion about the Foxy Eye/ Cat Eye lift surgery? Do you think is safe or long term?


Here's your answer from one the best injectors in the world. Reason why they don't do it.
Some reviews I've read agree with them, waste of money as results are so temporary on some people like a matter of weeks even though it's a threadlift which are supposed to last 6-10 months.


----------



## K Couture

jfghk said:


> Hi! My mom is 57 years old and wanting to get some work done, basically eyebags removal, ptosis correction and a facelift. What would you recommend? Would a ptosis correction be needed if a facelift is done? Thanks!


facelift wont address ptosis, but in some cases the endoscopic forehead can addresss ptosis. My friend was given 2 options with her surgeon years ago when she consulted for double eyelid surgery. She could either do dei + ptosis or endoscopic forehead lift + dei. She chose the latter because she had sagging brows anyway. Facelift doesnt address the brow  and forehead region so its got nothing to do with ptosis


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> @HopefulGB
> Luckily you live in the US and Mascaro is not the only game in town. He's good but there are others just at good.
> 
> BELOW:
> DrKassir on Insta. Dr Kassir Ramtin, NJ.
> 
> View attachment 5237610
> 
> 
> BELOW: CaliforniaFaceSurgeon on Insta. Dr Almonte in Sacramento
> View attachment 5237611
> 
> View attachment 5237623
> 
> BELOW:
> LipLiftMD on Insta. Dr James Pearson, BHills and Hermosa Beach. His insta page under his name only has 1 or 2 photos. Go to LipLiftMD
> 
> View attachment 5237622


Thank you @Transformation2021 for this. Great to see you are doing further research in the U.S. to find great lip lift surgeons. I just realised my facelift surgeon in York also does bullhorn lip lifts for less than £2k!


----------



## MissOrange

I find the Merz plastic surgery scale so useful to examine the need for face and neck lifts with ageing and to check the longevity of a face or neck lift. I had minor nasolabial folds but severe downward oral commissures and marionette lines and moderate jowls with mild neck sagging. Now I can look at the merz scale and see where I am post a facelift, ie 0 on the scale, no jawline sagging, no marionettes, no nasolabials, and no downward turn to the oral commissures. In other words my surgeon has done an A+ facelift. Look at some plastic surgeons’ afters and you may notice ladies still have nasolabials or downward turn to the oral commissures. This scale allows you to objectively rate a postop facelift result! Aargh hate the signs of ageing to come....sunken cheeks, glabella lines, lip wrinkles, infraorbital hollowness, etc. Oh well for now I look 25. The question is for how long? I had a look in the mirror and noticed my bum is a bit saggy. Lol.


----------



## MissOrange

jfghk said:


> Hi! My mom is 57 years old and wanting to get some work done, basically eyebags removal, ptosis correction and a facelift. What would you recommend? Would a ptosis correction be needed if a facelift is done? Thanks!


Hi @jfghk all those procedures sound appropriate for her. How exciting for her. I think to rejuvenate both a blepharoplasty with ptosis correction and a facelift are needed. The facelift addresses the mid and lower face and the bleph with lid fat graft and ptosis correction addresses the upper face. Interestingly I found that upper lid fat graft lifts the brow as it replaces lost volume in the upper lid. I would advocate upper lid fat graft over a brow lift. As for forehead wrinkles, I also noticed that since I had forehead fat graft, I no longer need Botox for my forehead. It is as though replacing volume loss gets rid of skin wrinkles too!


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## mellecyn

MissOrange said:


> I find the Merz plastic surgery scale so useful to examine the need for face and neck lifts with ageing and to check the longevity of a face or neck lift. I had minor nasolabial folds but severe downward oral commissures and marionette lines and moderate jowls with mild neck sagging. Now I can look at the merz scale and see where I am post a facelift, ie 0 on the scale, no jawline sagging, no marionettes, no nasolabials, and no downward turn to the oral commissures. In other words my surgeon has done an A+ facelift. Look at some plastic surgeons’ afters and you may notice ladies still have nasolabials or downward turn to the oral commissures. This scale allows you to objectively rate a postop facelift result! Aargh hate the signs of ageing to come....sunken cheeks, glabella lines, lip wrinkles, infraorbital hollowness, etc. Oh well for now I look 25. The question is for how long? I had a look in the mirror and noticed my bum is a bit saggy. Lol.
> 
> View attachment 5238680
> 
> 
> View attachment 5238681
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> 
> View attachment 5238682
> 
> 
> View attachment 5238683


Hello @MissOrange and thank you for sharing your journey and your knowledge. My godness you look stunning and so young! The Merz scale is so useful!
So I am 43 years old and people think I´m 10 years younger but I clearly see my ageing...eventhough it´s a midl sagging (1) like the jaw face countour less defined, and with weight gain I gained fat in the face but cheeks bigger and eyes smaller...it still lacks "definition" (cheeks sagging a little bit) and I miss my big bright eyes popping....A bit of an asymmetry also (with a mouth tilted).
I basically went from head turning au-natural to hardly any head turning even with the maximum help of (natural looking) make up  Anyways I am wondering if anything can be done just with injections and not yet the face lift? As mild sagging?
I had fillers on for mild hollowness under eyes, and on temples, back in 2018.
I am in Scandinavia and contemplating a call with the Dr Gardell in Stockholm because I really like the results I see from them, Do you know?
-eventhough I´d need to fly- I havent found anyone really convincing in France, and when asking on the fb group they all want to send me to Tunisia.


----------



## MissOrange

mellecyn said:


> Hello @MissOrange and thank you for sharing your journey and your knowledge. My godness you look stunning and so young! The Merz scale is so useful!
> So I am 43 years old and people think I´m 10 years younger but I clearly see my ageing...eventhough it´s a midl sagging (1) like the jaw face countour less defined, and with weight gain I gained fat in the face but cheeks bigger and eyes smaller...it still lacks "definition" (cheeks sagging a little bit) and I miss my big bright eyes popping....A bit of an asymmetry also (with a mouth tilted).
> I basically went from head turning au-natural to hardly any head turning even with the maximum help of (natural looking) make up  Anyways I am wondering if anything can be done just with injections and not yet the face lift? As mild sagging?
> I had fillers on for mild hollowness under eyes, and on temples, back in 2018.
> I am in Scandinavia and contemplating a call with the Dr Gardell in Stockholm because I really like the results I see from them, Do you know?
> -eventhough I´d need to fly- I havent found anyone really convincing in France, and when asking on the fb group they all want to send me to Tunisia.


Hi @mellecyn, yes fillers and Botox can help. I did this in my 40s. I don’t know Dr Gardell.


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## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> facelift wont address ptosis, but in some cases the endoscopic forehead can addresss ptosis. My friend was given 2 options with her surgeon years ago when she consulted for double eyelid surgery. She could either do dei + ptosis or endoscopic forehead lift + dei. She chose the latter because she had sagging brows anyway. Facelift doesnt address the brow  and forehead region so its got nothing to do with ptosis


Pray tell which clinic in SK do end forehead lift? I have found that they mainly use Endotine clips. Very effective but they take about 9 months to dissolve. Attached also in CaliforniaFaceSurgeon who cuts along the hairline and he does it under local and on the video the patient is very comfortable. Check out how their eyes turned out with just a forehead lift.
Finally you have Guy Massry who cuts inside the scalp. Not sure which would cause more hair loss.





The patient having the op is the one on the left.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> Pray tell which clinic in SK do end forehead lift? I have found that they mainly use Endotine clips. Very effective but they take about 9 months to dissolve. Attached also in CaliforniaFaceSurgeon who cuts along the hairline and he does it under local and on the video the patient is very comfortable. Check out how their eyes turned out with just a forehead lift.
> Finally you have Guy Massry who cuts inside the scalp. Not sure which would cause more hair loss.
> View attachment 5239487
> 
> 
> View attachment 5239488
> 
> The patient having the op is the one on the left.
> View attachment 5239489
> 
> View attachment 5239490


Typo *endo* not end


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## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> Pray tell which clinic in SK do end forehead lift? I have found that they mainly use Endotine clips. Very effective but they take about 9 months to dissolve. Attached also in CaliforniaFaceSurgeon who cuts along the hairline and he does it under local and on the video the patient is very comfortable. Check out how their eyes turned out with just a forehead lift.
> Finally you have Guy Massry who cuts inside the scalp. Not sure which would cause more hair loss.
> View attachment 5239487
> 
> 
> View attachment 5239488
> 
> The patient having the op is the one on the left.
> View attachment 5239489
> 
> View attachment 5239490


the one performed by dr almonte is not the endoscopic forehead lift. Thats the incisional method, more invasive and should only be done if the patient needs hair line lowering. Im gonna do my endo forehead lift in seoul once borders open and quarantine is not required


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## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> the one performed by dr almonte is not the endoscopic forehead lift. Thats the incisional method, more invasive and should only be done if the patient needs hair line lowering. Im gonna do my endo forehead lift in seoul once borders open and quarantine is not required


@K Couture, I have googled endotine forehead lift. Wow! Another procedure I am learning about.


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## MissOrange

It has been 4 months and to maintain this facelift, I am mindful of reducing my salt/msg intake so my cheeks do not bloat up and weigh down my face. I am mindful of extremely cold weather that makes my facial fat cells shrink leading to facial sagging. I am mindful that alcohol causes inflammation, dehydration and skin sagging. I am mindful that if I gain weight, it will go to my cheeks, expand my face, weigh down my face and cause skin sagging. Yes, you still have to worry about sagging if you slip! I am grateful that I found a great plastic surgeon at affordable prices. For those researching facelifts, read up on signs of a bad facelift which include lateral sweep, pixie ears and cross cheek depressions more commonly known as joker lines. This way you can examine postop photos of surgeons on your shortlist and be able to assess whether a facelift result is good or bad objectively.


----------



## MissOrange

My U.K. plastic surgeon Nick Rhodes can compete with one of the best facelift surgeons in Korea, Dr Dongman Park who was on my shortlist for a facelift but I could not fly to Korea and quarantine for 2 weeks. My before is after fat graft had melted/reabsorbed in the lower face and led to extreme facial sagging. I did not know even after my 5th facial fat graft that to maintain 100% fat graft survival meant to eat a high fat and protein diet for 4 months post facial fat transfer and keep one’s weight 2-3 lbs above the surgery weight to help the newly grafted fat cells to survive. I only worked this out when I had my breast fat transfer in August 2020. My weight fluctuated and my diet was mainly carbs post facial fat transfer. Too late now and I have decided not to have any more facial fat transfers. Nick Rhodes gave me back my beautiful face! I may need to be a teetotaller to maintain this face! Water and no wine!


----------



## mlydzz

K Couture said:


> the one performed by dr almonte is not the endoscopic forehead lift. Thats the incisional method, more invasive and should only be done if the patient needs hair line lowering. Im gonna do my endo forehead lift in seoul once borders open and quarantine is not required


which clinics are you interested in? can I know your list?


----------



## mlydzz

pumpkin77 said:


> oh the clinic! I'm sorry I am still kind of new here and am not sure. Is it ok for me to just write the clinic name here? I don't want to be accused of anything.. ?


May I know the clinic and name of the surgeon who did your facial fat graft?


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## K Couture

mlydzz said:


> which clinics are you interested in? can I know your list?


Oh i already selected my surgeon. But i havent done it yet so I won't be sharing it until my swelling goes down and Ive seen the results x


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## NewMe83

Transformation2021 said:


> Here's your answer from one the best injectors in the world. Reason why they don't do it.
> Some reviews I've read agree with them, waste of money as results are so temporary on some people like a matter of weeks even though it's a threadlift which are supposed to last 6-10 months.
> View attachment 5238297


AVOID Consultant Clinic, they are a fraud - read the Trustpilot reviews! I nearly booked with them based on their instagram page, thank God I did my research first.


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## MissOrange

OMG! I have invisible facelift scars at 4 months now! Wow! Korean facelift surgeons have competition in York! The best light is sunlight sitting in my car today. I can pretend I never had a facelift! Lol. Yes it is all due to my Korean genes.


----------



## MissOrange

NewMe83 said:


> AVOID Consultant Clinic, they are a fraud - read the Trustpilot reviews! I nearly booked with them based on their instagram page, thank God I did my research first.


@NewMe83 I just read their trust pilot reviews. Wow! Yes it is important to read reviews everywhere you can find them and not just trust IG photos.


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## thanku33

I've heard no drainage(those little blood bags?) cases are only for not real in-depth SMAS level facelift but only possible when less deep layers like only skin is lifted. This might look good first but will sag again after short time.. but then I am hearing many reviews on this forum who are saying they got SMAS facelift and their recovery was really easy with no drainage and stuff.. My brain is saying the first theory makes more sense but my heart wants to believe these reviews.. any wise ones who can enlighten me pls?


----------



## MissOrange

thanku33 said:


> I've heard no drainage(those little blood bags?) cases are only for not real in-depth SMAS level facelift but only possible when less deep layers like only skin is lifted. This might look good first but will sag again after short time.. but then I am hearing many reviews on this forum who are saying they got SMAS facelift and their recovery was really easy with no drainage and stuff.. My brain is saying the first theory makes more sense but my heart wants to believe these reviews.. any wise ones who can enlighten me pls?


My surgeon left the lower part of the incision open for drainage so I did not need tubes. I massaged out the fluid the first night before it started closing.


----------



## kaixin05

do endoscopic forehead lift (endotine) raises hairline afterwards? does it also lasts long?


----------



## kaixin05

K Couture said:


> facelift wont address ptosis, but in some cases the endoscopic forehead can addresss ptosis. My friend was given 2 options with her surgeon years ago when she consulted for double eyelid surgery. She could either do dei + ptosis or endoscopic forehead lift + dei. She chose the latter because she had sagging brows anyway. Facelift doesnt address the brow  and forehead region so its got nothing to do with ptosis




do endoscopic forehead lift (endotine) raises hairline afterwards? does it also lasts long?


----------



## K Couture

kaixin05 said:


> do endoscopic forehead lift (endotine) raises hairline afterwards? does it also lasts long?


Raises hairline? You mean does it make you look like you have a receding hairline? If so then no it doesnt. It doesnt alter the position of the hairline. lt should last about 8-10 years when done properly. My friend's mum is in her  mid 60s, did it in 2014 and its still holding till this day.


----------



## MissOrange

I did it again! I dyed my blonde hair brown with one box of L’Oréal excellence 6.0 natural light brown which I find is the closest match to Duchess Kate’s colour. I really must stop my impulsivity. My Brazilian stylist said he refuses to make me blonde again until at least January of next year or my hair will fall out! Lol.


----------



## MissOrange

I had a freakish past 24 hours when my lower face started to sag! It reinflated with 4 tall glasses of water and salty french fries. I think I got severely dehydrated after my pfizer booster gave me a fever of 38.5C! Remember one of the causes of skin sagging can simply be dehydration. Thank goodness it sorted itself out else I would have had to fly to Korea but with the rise in covid cases in Europe and Korea, who knows when the 2 week quarantine in Korea will ever end for foreigners as they do not accept double vaccinations outside of Korea! Although I have now had 3 shots, 2 Astra Zeneca and one Pfizer and still do not test positive for IgG antibodies!


----------



## Transformation2021

kaixin05 said:


> do endoscopic forehead lift (endotine) raises hairline afterwards? does it also lasts long?


No and endo forehead lift with endotine has nothing to do with raising one's hairline.


----------



## Transformation2021

I have been making a shortlist of US facial plastic surgeons who makes a woman look prettier beside just looking a few years younger. I also never look at the b&a if the patient also had rhinoplasty with her FL. IMO if you have rhino you're 'after' would exponentially be better. If a woman looked like she NEED A NOSE JOB in the before and the doctor DID NOT do her nose and she still looks stunning after her FL, then in my books, he's very, very good. This doctor Dr Nayak of Missouri is not a 'celebrity' doc but he's on my list. This woman did NOT have a nose job NOR did she have facial laser rejuvenation but she had FG.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> I have been making a shortlist of US facial plastic surgeons who makes a woman look prettier beside just looking a few years younger. I also never look at the b&a if the patient also had rhinoplasty with her FL. IMO if you have rhino you're 'after' would exponentially be better. If a woman looked like she NEED A NOSE JOB in the before and the doctor DID NOT do her nose and she still looks stunning after her FL, then in my books, he's very, very good. This doctor Dr Nayak of Missouri is not a 'celebrity' doc but he's on my list. This woman did NOT have a nose job NOR did she have facial laser rejuvenation but she had FG.
> 
> View attachment 5249427


I forgot to add this is AT TWO WEEKS POST OP


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## thanku33

MissOrange said:


> My surgeon left the lower part of the incision open for drainage so I did not need tubes. I massaged out the fluid the first night before it started closing.


Oh~ so there are various methods of approaching it! And yes, what you explained makes sense! Thank you for sharing!


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> I have been making a shortlist of US facial plastic surgeons who makes a woman look prettier beside just looking a few years younger. I also never look at the b&a if the patient also had rhinoplasty with her FL. IMO if you have rhino you're 'after' would exponentially be better. If a woman looked like she NEED A NOSE JOB in the before and the doctor DID NOT do her nose and she still looks stunning after her FL, then in my books, he's very, very good. This doctor Dr Nayak of Missouri is not a 'celebrity' doc but he's on my list. This woman did NOT have a nose job NOR did she have facial laser rejuvenation but she had FG.
> 
> View attachment 5249427


@Transformation2021 Dr Nayak starts at $65k for his facelift. Out of the budget of most ladies. I discount afters when the patient is smiling as smiling itself lifts the face with or without a facelift. The before and after should be closed mouth and serious like a passport photo.


----------



## catelet

MissOrange said:


> It has been 4 months and to maintain this facelift, I am mindful of reducing my salt/msg intake so my cheeks do not bloat up and weigh down my face. I am mindful of extremely cold weather that makes my facial fat cells shrink leading to facial sagging. I am mindful that alcohol causes inflammation, dehydration and skin sagging. I am mindful that if I gain weight, it will go to my cheeks, expand my face, weigh down my face and cause skin sagging. Yes, you still have to worry about sagging if you slip! I am grateful that I found a great plastic surgeon at affordable prices. For those researching facelifts, read up on signs of a bad facelift which include lateral sweep, pixie ears and cross cheek depressions more commonly known as joker lines. This way you can examine postop photos of surgeons on your shortlist and be able to assess whether a facelift result is good or bad objectively.
> 
> View attachment 5240939
> 
> 
> View attachment 5240940
> 
> 
> View attachment 5240941
> 
> 
> View attachment 5240942


You look amazing--thanks so much for sharing your pictures!


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## MissOrange

For those researching facelifts, this is the best explanation of the difference between smas plication and smas imbrication and why smas imbrication is the gold standard. Make sure you ask your surgeon if he does smas imbrication, cutting, trimming and resuturing the smas layer. This reminds me of why my bullhorn lip lift (philtrum mole has not dropped) and revision des with ptosis correction have lasted for 4-5 years and counting as the surgeons cut, trimmed and resutured the muscle layer as well as trim the skin. I used to keep going back to my U.K. surgeon to revise the upper bleph as my lids kept falling every 2-3 years! Now I know why. In Korea they offer you double eyelid surgery with or without ptosis correction. Always ask for with ptosis muscle correction. My right side of face moles have dropped to their original presurgery position at 4.5 months with a return of the downturn of the right oral commissure. This means the long acting absorbable pdo sutures may have reabsorbed. I think pdo sutures would be fine for a smas imbrication as the cut and trimmed muscles would have healed back together by 4 months but using pdo as suspension sutures is not ideal as once the sutures absorb, whatever it is holding up may drop down. The trimmed skin is helping as I can only pinch 1 cm of skin now whereas before the VR I could pinch an inch. The VR lift is not a smas imbrication but more a macs suspension lift of the smas with sutures. That said Nick uses permanent sutures but I chose pdo because of my allergies so what happened to my VR lift may not happen to other ladies. It means that I may need to research a surgeon who does smas imbrication sooner than I would have liked. But Korea is still requiring foreigners to quarantine for 2 weeks even with double vaccination or in my case, triple vaccination as I have had the pfizer booster. In the meantime, it is back to drinking lots of water to reinflate and lift my face.

Here is a photo of my 2 moles on day 1 post FL (98.8 lbs) and sadly after 4.5 months (99.4 lbs) having dropped with a return of my marionette line.


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## peachesandrose

MissOrange said:


> For those researching facelifts, this is the best explanation of the difference between smas plication and smas imbrication and why smas imbrication is the gold standard. Make sure you ask your surgeon if he does smas imbrication, cutting, trimming and resuturing the smas layer. This reminds me of why my bullhorn lip lift (philtrum mole has not dropped) and revision des with ptosis correction have lasted for 4-5 years and counting as the surgeons cut, trimmed and resutured the muscle layer as well as trim the skin. I used to keep going back to my U.K. surgeon to revise the upper bleph as my lids kept falling every 2-3 years! Now I know why. In Korea they offer you double eyelid surgery with or without ptosis correction. Always ask for with ptosis muscle correction. My right side of face moles have dropped to their original presurgery position at 4.5 months with a return of the downturn of the right oral commissure. This means the long acting absorbable pdo sutures may have reabsorbed. I think pdo sutures would be fine for a smas imbrication as the cut and trimmed muscles would have healed back together by 4 months but using pdo as suspension sutures is not ideal as once the sutures absorb, whatever it is holding up may drop down. The trimmed skin is helping as I can only pinch 1 cm of skin now whereas before the VR I could pinch an inch. The VR lift is not a smas imbrication but more a macs suspension lift of the smas with sutures. That said Nick uses permanent sutures but I chose pdo because of my allergies so what happened to my VR lift may not happen to other ladies. It means that I may need to research a surgeon who does smas imbrication sooner than I would have liked. But Korea is still requiring foreigners to quarantine for 2 weeks even with double vaccination or in my case, triple vaccination as I have had the pfizer booster. In the meantime, it is back to drinking lots of water to reinflate and lift my face.
> 
> Here is a photo of my 2 moles on day 1 post FL (98.8 lbs) and sadly after 4.5 months (99.4 lbs) having dropped with a return of my marionette line.
> 
> View attachment 5255665
> 
> 
> View attachment 5255666
> 
> 
> View attachment 5255667
> 
> 
> View attachment 5255668
> 
> 
> View attachment 5255669


I always appreciate your update posts and detailed info posts, which are done completely selflessly! A lot of people would keep their beauty knowledge to themselves for their own benefit. In any case, I'm really not seeing myself reaching your level of young & pretty no matter how many procedures I undergo, so your beauty knowledge is safe with me! Ha ha


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## seoulsister

Dear MissOrange
I know for liplifts there is a slight drop after surgery. Is this the same for FL and you were expecting it?
K Couture is dying to go back to SK and I wouldn't presume to speak for you but she is not the only one lol.
>>
I woke up yesterday morning and was like, crap im starting to age again. I need my beauty injections, my endo forehead lift, my lips done and zygoma touch up. I cant wait<<<


 I hope something is sorted quickly because it has been too long 
Best docs in the world X







[/QUOTE]


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## Transformation2021

Facelifts. Are these results just personal bad luck? This was posted yesterday on RS by a patient of the Famous Dr Amir Karma. 
*Biggest Disappointment*

27 Nov 2021 9 months post
Dr Karam is a charismatic guy… after following him for over a year I decided to do a lift, fat transfer and lip lift. To say I was underwhelmed was an understatement. Not only do I not see a difference, I feel it looks almost the same. The right side of my face is actually drooping and my smile is sagging on the right. The fat does not seem to have taken on the right. I wanted to do the fat transfer so I didn’t need to do filler. It’s been 10 months now and I’m extremely disappointed. It cost me almost $50k for lift, fat transfer and lip lift. I didn’t notice a difference on the lip lift either. Now I have a scar that is a ditch under my nose. Lips look the same. My neck is still sagging and showing lines I don’t feel any better than before I did this procedure. I would not recommend this to anyone. Now after all the expense and pain, I know I will have to do it again with another Doctor.
I mean if this was me and I have spent $50K US I would be pissed as hell. How long would it take you to save that again for a revision or pay off the loan you took out for the F
	

		
			
		

		
	



	

		
			
		

		
	
L in the first place.
BTW I saw Dr Dongman posted his fees on a reply in Insta that his fees are around $20K US.


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## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> Facelifts. Are these results just personal bad luck? This was posted yesterday on RS by a patient of the Famous Dr Amir Karma.
> *Biggest Disappointment*
> 
> 27 Nov 2021 9 months post
> Dr Karam is a charismatic guy… after following him for over a year I decided to do a lift, fat transfer and lip lift. To say I was underwhelmed was an understatement. Not only do I not see a difference, I feel it looks almost the same. The right side of my face is actually drooping and my smile is sagging on the right. The fat does not seem to have taken on the right. I wanted to do the fat transfer so I didn’t need to do filler. It’s been 10 months now and I’m extremely disappointed. It cost me almost $50k for lift, fat transfer and lip lift. I didn’t notice a difference on the lip lift either. Now I have a scar that is a ditch under my nose. Lips look the same. My neck is still sagging and showing lines I don’t feel any better than before I did this procedure. I would not recommend this to anyone. Now after all the expense and pain, I know I will have to do it again with another Doctor.
> I mean if this was me and I have spent $50K US I would be pissed as hell. How long would it take you to save that again for a revision or pay off the loan you took out for the F
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5260620
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L in the first place.
> BTW I saw Dr Dongman posted his fees on a reply in Insta that his fees are around $20K US.


Typo Amir Karam


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## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Typo Amir Karam


Wow! Thanks for this @Transformation2021. Incredible that this was a Karam patient! This is why I say don’t spend a fortune on a facelift as it may need to be revised sooner or later.

With the omicron variant and rise in covid cases in Korea, it looks like seeing Dr Dongman Park may not happen until I am 60! 

I have lost weight to my FL surgery weight of 98.8 lbs and tried face yoga again to tighten my face. I have been drinking collagen renu powder for 2 weeks now. It seems to have helped. That and discovering F810 mink 3D eyelashes!!! OMG! 5 pairs for £2.99 on eBay with free delivery so it cost me 60 pence to look like this! I had spent £30 for lash lift with tint but as I have sparse tiny eyelashes, it was hardly noticeable. I love these mink lashes! I have ordered more for £2.25 from another ebayer. My eBay red reading glasses cost £2.99 too! Lol. And the box of L’Oreal excellence natural light brown dye cost £5.50.


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## MissOrange

It has been 6 weeks since I had CO2 laser to my areola hypertrophic scar and I don’t see any improvement. Instead the scar is back to being slightly raised and pigmented in the test area that got the laser as the laser causes minor skin injury and then heals again, so more scarring. So today I tried kenalog steroid injection 40 mg/ml which I had tried back in March which had flattened the scar. This time instead of 0.5 ml, I tried 1 ml into the scar. Incredibly it looks immediately better with blanching and flattening of the scar. My next appointment with the burns clinic is next month. I shall ask not to continue laser treatment and instead try another steroid injection. I think anyone who has a hypertrophic surgical scar, should try kenalog steroid injection over laser. The steroid injection should show its full effects in 3 days so I shall wait and hope for even further improvement. Fingers crossed I may not even need to go back to the burns clinic!


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## shakti

Hi miss orange. Thanks so much for your posts! I learnt a lot. Would you happen to know if there is a way to avoid sagging after v line and cheekbone surgery? Can a face lift be done at the same as those surgeries to avoid sagging?


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## MissOrange

shakti said:


> Hi miss orange. Thanks so much for your posts! I learnt a lot. Would you happen to know if there is a way to avoid sagging after v line and cheekbone surgery? Can a face lift be done at the same as those surgeries to avoid sagging?


Hi @shakti, yes a facelift can be done at the same time. This is offered by View hospital and Girin clinic. The problem is postop swelling may stretch the skin so ideally a facelift should be done after all the swelling from facial contouring has gone.


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## MissOrange

No wonder I needed several facial fat transfers! Looks like by age 55 one loses 40% of one’s facial fat! Brooke Shields was stunningly beautiful in her youth. She is 56, a year older than I am and in my opinion, needs full face fat transfer and a brow or forehead lift. There is a way to get back her beautiful youthful face! Here is my face at 49 before full face fat graft and after 3 full face fat grafts and 2 top ups. I wish I could take Brooke to Korea and bring her back looking like a teen again! Lol.


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## catelet

MissOrange said:


> OMG! I have invisible facelift scars at 4 months now! Wow! Korean facelift surgeons have competition in York! The best light is sunlight sitting in my car today. I can pretend I never had a facelift! Lol. Yes it is all due to my Korean genes.
> 
> View attachment 5245391
> 
> 
> View attachment 5245392


Your scars (what scars?) look fantastic.


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## MissOrange

catelet said:


> Your scars (what scars?) look fantastic.


Thanks @catelet. I am struggling to cope with brown hair. I really miss the attention I got in public with blonde hair and the perks that came with it, but the more I get my hair bleached, the more it literally thins. My stylist says it will all fall out if I don’t wait 2 months. I’ve become invisible again. Although going out without makeup, makes the public treat me like a child which is not too bad I guess as they want to help me out a lot. As there are no FL scars, I feel as though I never had a FL! Lol.


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## MissOrange

If by age 55 we have to replace 40% of our lost facial fat, how many cc’s is that? Here are the cc’s for my first full face fat graft and 2 top ups. Then I had a full face fat graft Feb 2018 and then Jan 2020. But at no time, did I know how to retain fat cells until I figured it out in Oct 2020 with my breast FT. Maybe it means I need to fly back at age 60 for one more facial fat transfer when I lose 10% due to aging and this time eat foods high in fat and protein for 4 months! If you blow up your cheek and mouth and your face looks better, it may need fat transfer?!


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## shakti

MissOrange said:


> Hi @shakti, yes a facelift can be done at the same time. This is offered by View hospital and Girin clinic. The problem is postop swelling may stretch the skin so ideally a facelift should be done after all the swelling from facial contouring has gone.



Isn’t a face lift supposed to pull the skin so it gets tighter? Does it might be too tight if I do it at the same time? If that’s the case how long should I wait after to do a lift.


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## MissOrange

Here is the before and after of kenalog steroid 40 mg/ml into a pigmented hypertrophic scar after failed CO2 laser. Seeing is believing! The scar vanished immediately! The left photo is the mottled raised pigmented scar after laser and the right after kenalog. The red marks are the 27 gauge needle sites which will heal and disappear. In my experience after trying KTP and CO2 laser for hypertrophic scars, I would advise against lasers for scars and try old fashioned but reliable steroid injections but make sure your practitioner uses a high enough dose, ie 40 mg and not 10 mg. Better yet never get a periareolar or donut mastopexy or an implant through your nipple. The tension on the skin is too great and may leave a wide scar. If you get mastopexy make sure you get the full anchor lift so the nipple is supported by the vertical breast closure too.


----------



## MissOrange

shakti said:


> Isn’t a face lift supposed to pull the skin so it gets tighter? Does it might be too tight if I do it at the same time? If that’s the case how long should I wait after to do a lift.


Each clinic is different. They will probably suggest waiting 3-6 months so you have completely deswelled from the bone contouring operation but for foreigners travelling from the States, they may suggest doing both at the same time as they may not be able to fly back.


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## K Couture

shakti said:


> Isn’t a face lift supposed to pull the skin so it gets tighter? Does it might be too tight if I do it at the same time? If that’s the case how long should I wait after to do a lift.



The problem with doing it at the same time is the results are not accurate. You get quite significant immediate swelling when facial contouring is done. When you are swollen the surgeon has to literally guess how much tissue to pull. Also, the surgeon won't know how much you will sag after you fully heal. As such its impossible to deliver good results because its impossible to predict how much sagging would occur post operatively. 

I only know one person who did it at the same time. Mrsking wrote a review on her facial contouring + lifting at girin you can look it up. She's older so she already had sagging before her facial contouring. So essentially the surgeon had drawn markers on her face before the surgery to know how much to pull. However, she later stated that she wasn't happy with the lifting results. If you think about it, even with surgical markers for the facelift drawn before she went under the knife, she still experienced alot of swelling from the bone contouring, so even then its not accurate. That plus the fact that the additonal swelling post operatively from the facial contouring was not visible until 8 months post op, made for subpar results.

So what miss o said is correct, you need to wait till you recover from fc first to do a fl. Plus depending on your age and facial elasticity, you might not even need a face lift after fc. Just take it one step at a time and only do fl when you notice visible sagging.


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## Transformation2021

shakti said:


> Isn’t a face lift supposed to pull the skin so it gets tighter? Does it might be too tight if I do it at the same time? If that’s the case how long should I wait after to do a lift.


You're missing the point. READ again what MissO said.


----------



## shakti

Transformation2021 said:


> You're missing the point. READ again what MissO said.


English isn’t my main language….i am still in esl classes it hard for me to understand things sometimes


----------



## shakti

K Couture said:


> The problem with doing it at the same time is the results are not accurate. You get quite significant immediate swelling when facial contouring is done. When you are swollen the surgeon has to literally guess how much tissue to pull. Also, the surgeon won't know how much you will sag after you fully heal. As such its impossible to deliver good results because its impossible to predict how much sagging would occur post operatively.
> 
> I only know one person who did it at the same time. Mrsking wrote a review on her facial contouring + lifting at girin you can look it up. She's older so she already had sagging before her facial contouring. So essentially the surgeon had drawn markers on her face before the surgery to know how much to pull. However, she later stated that she wasn't happy with the lifting results. If you think about it, even with surgical markers for the facelift drawn before she went under the knife, she still experienced alot of swelling from the bone contouring, so even then its not accurate. That plus the fact that the additonal swelling post operatively from the facial contouring was not visible until 8 months post op, made for subpar results.
> 
> So what miss o said is correct, you need to wait till you recover from fc first to do a fl. Plus depending on your age and facial elasticity, you might not even need a face lift after fc. Just take it one step at a time and only do fl when you notice visible sagging.


Thank you for explaining in details. How can I know if I have the type of face that no need lift?


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## shakti

Miss orange as a doctor do you ever worry about risk of general anesthesia? I only done surgery in Thailand and they give anaesthesia relaxation pill and local anesthesia. I planning to do v line and cheekbone which must use general anesthesia. Should there be any concern with complication from general anesthesia and does risks increase if you do surgeries at different clinic a few days apart so need two anesthesia. I am considering doing nose one clinic and vline cheekbone at another


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## lavendine

Thank you so much for this informative thread! I took a 2 year break from looking at plastic surgery stuff but the information here is invaluable.

Your SMAS lift looks amazing. I'm only in my early 30s but going for a deep plane facelift in 2022 to ward off lower face drooping --  hopefully it'll last into my mid-40s!


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## MissOrange

Bleached my hair back to blonde yesterday. It was the only way to draw the eyes upwards away from my re-emerging marionette lines. Wearing makeup softens the lines. A closed mouth smile lifts the corners of downturning lips.


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## Lien

You're very beautiful and young looking.  But I do see what you mean about the marionette lines.  Are you planning to go to Korea when it opens up and which facelift would you be doing?


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## MissOrange

Lien said:


> You're very beautiful and young looking.  But I do see what you mean about the marionette lines.  Are you planning to go to Korea when it opens up and which facelift would you be doing?


Hi @Lien, I am going to try to hold off until I am 60. Most of the FL results, even deep plane, I have seen show nasolabials and marionettes at 4-12 months! See the attached screenshots. It is making me think that facelifts are not able to stop nasolabials and marionettes but are great to give a nice jawline and a neck lift to lift a sagging neck.

I can follow this lipstick tutorial so I have happy lips! lol. To think I did everything wrong lining my lips and overaccentuated downturned lips without even knowing it! I think every lady in her 40s and 50s should watch this youtube tutorial by Lisa to disguise any downturned lip corners.


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## MissOrange

According to this plastic surgeon, it is facial bone loss and inturning of the bone that is causing the nasolabials and marionettes! This suggests that FLs may not be the answer for this and instead volume replacement with fat graft or fillers may be. This may explain why I am seeing the reemergence of nasolabials and marionettes after the swelling has gone in surgeon’s b&a’s at 4-12 months! There may be no point in getting revision FL after revision FL in an attempt to get rid of nasolabials and marionettes. Is this why so many celebs seem to keep getting repeat FLs? Are they pursuing the holy grail? Should they instead focus on volume replacement around the nose and mouth once the FL/NL has sorted their jawline and turkey neck.


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## K Couture

yeah facelifts can't stop it. They can only temporarily remove the appearance of, during the overtightening and swelling phase. And once completely healed the lines are back albeit not as bad as before because everything else is tightened so you still notice some improvements. Mine came back about 8 months post op. Tbh not even filler can remove it, but it does help to conceal it more. I would really avoid fg for that area because it can migrate to the cheeks and then the difference in elevation could make it look worse. The risk of this happening goes up with older patients.

I read about a procedure called nasolabial fold excision but the results are arguable becsause it does leave a scar -_-


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## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> yeah facelifts can't stop it. They can only temporarily remove the appearance of, during the overtightening and swelling phase. And once completely healed the lines are back albeit not as bad as before because everything else is tightened so you still notice some improvements. Mine came back about 8 months post op. Tbh not even filler can remove it, but it does help to conceal it more. I would really avoid fg for that area because it can migrate to the cheeks and then the difference in elevation could make it look worse. The risk of this happening goes up with older patients.
> 
> I read about a procedure called nasolabial fold excision but the results are arguable becsause it does leave a scar -_-





MissOrange said:


> According to this plastic surgeon, it is facial bone loss and inturning of the bone that is causing the nasolabials and marionettes! This suggests that FLs may not be the answer for this and instead volume replacement with fat graft or fillers may be. This may explain why I am seeing the reemergence of nasolabials and marionettes after the swelling has gone in surgeon’s b&a’s at 4-12 months! There may be no point in getting revision FL after revision FL in an attempt to get rid of nasolabials and marionettes. Is this why so many celebs seem to keep getting repeat FLs? Are they pursuing the holy grail? Should they instead focus on volume replacement around the nose and mouth once the FL/NL has sorted their jawline and turkey neck.
> 
> View attachment 5268519
> 
> 
> View attachment 5268520


It’s a known fact that an FL doesn’t really address the nasal fold. if you don’t want to do fillers the best correction I’ve seen lately are by threadlifts.


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## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> It’s a known fact that an FL doesn’t really address the nasal fold. if you don’t want to do fillers the best correction I’ve seen lately are by threadlifts.


oh nonono thread lifts are absolutely useless imo. they have very very minimal improvements and don't last long. Actually most of the improvement is during the initial swelling period, which is  3-7 days. Once thats over you won't really see much difference. I've done threadlifts 3 times and its been an absolute waste of money tbh.

the problem with the facelift for the nasio folds is that the fold region is actually too far into the mid face for the surgeon to reach. The facelift is performed from the side (around the ears / hairline). The surgeon has no leway to access the folds directly from there, so relies on force from tightening from the ear/ hairline. Thats why it works so well for the jowels and mid cheek region but not the inner folds.

the reason why the threadlift isn't useful is because it only addresses the superficial layers, while everything, including the superficial layer is connected to the smas. If the smas isnt corrected the superficial layer just ends up being pulled back down soon after.


----------



## MissOrange

I am a bit disheartened that even the great Dr Park's patient's moles have dropped in her 8 month review photos. Are FL/NLs really just to smooth jawlines and lift necks then. On the upside, her nasolabial and marionette are much improved but not invisible. I had hoped Dr Park could permanently remove nasolabials and marionettes with his extended smas FL/NL for $15-20k but it looks like FLs cannot achieve this. I now ignore any b&a FL photo taken under 4 months. The acid test are results at 4-12 months.

I have my zoom review consult with Nick in 5 days time (5.5 months postop) to look at my downturned oral commissures, marionette and nasolabials reemerging. The v line is no longer sharp but starting to sag and create jowls again. I would not recommend any macs suspension lifts. The lady who had her VR 2 months prior to me is now booked for revision VR with him next March for reappearance of jowls.


----------



## MissOrange

This is ageing in an Asian lady in her 70s vs how I look at 5 months postop. It is depressing to see a similar jowl and marionette, albeit not as bad as a 70s but not what I expected at 5 months post a facelift. I have lost confidence in mini or macs suspension facelifts. Now my left and right side have nasolabials, marionettes and jowls.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> I am a bit disheartened that even the great Dr Park's patient's moles have dropped in her 8 month review photos. Are FL/NLs really just to smooth jawlines and lift necks then. On the upside, her nasolabial and marionette are much improved but not invisible. I had hoped Dr Park could permanently remove nasolabials and marionettes with his extended smas FL/NL for $15-20k but it looks like FLs cannot achieve this. I now ignore any b&a FL photo taken under 4 months. The acid test are results at 4-12 months.
> 
> I have my zoom review consult with Nick in 5 days time (5.5 months postop) to look at my downturned oral commissures, marionette and nasolabials reemerging. The v line is no longer sharp but starting to sag and create jowls again. I would not recommend any macs suspension lifts. The lady who had her VR 2 months prior to me is now booked for revision VR with him next March for reappearance of jowls.



So something id like to share with you after observing the smas and deep plane lifts performed by different surgeons on various patients. This is something I noticed as a constant. The patients who looked like absolute crap immediatedly post op and going into the 2-3 month mark still looking awful, actually end up with the best most long lasting results. The patients who look decent immediatedly post op and look great from the 2-3 month mark onwards most often complain they notice sagging to occur again soon after. This was my concern for you when I saw how good you looked shortly after your surgery. Because you really shouldn't look that good soon after the surgery if long lasting results is the intention.

What this means is, surgeons who deliberately over correct to take into account the dissolving of the bunching tissue and later resettling of the lift's final resting position once swelling dissipates yields the best results. I personally had ALOT of overcorrection. In fact I was very concerned the first 2-3 months as even then I was looking overstretched and monster like. My post op photos from day 1-3 months, while you can see a gradual improvement, I still looked like a serpent snake monster because of how stretched my face was. I literally did not look human. But at the 4 month mark I began to look more natural and human-like once the bunching dissolved and my tissues began to relax, albeit my face was still really tight.

For me, I would fly in and out of the country on business and everytime I would see my friends when I return they would think Ive had something done. I would always get comments like "oh your face looks less tight and more natural". These comments kept repeating until the 2 year mark! I think that is why my results have lasted so long and will continue to last a long time.

I can only assume if you notice your jowels returning so soon post op that perhaps your surgeon was more to the conservative side?


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> So something id like to share with you after observing the smas and deep plane lifts performed by different surgeons on various patients. This is something I noticed as a constant. The patients who looked like absolute crap immediatedly post op and going into the 2-3 month mark still looking awful, actually end up with the best most long lasting results. The patients who look decent immediatedly post op and look great from the 2-3 month mark onwards most often complain they notice sagging to occur again soon after. This was my concern for you when I saw how good you looked shortly after your surgery. Because you really shouldn't look that good soon after the surgery if long lasting results is the intention.
> 
> What this means is, surgeons who deliberately over correct to take into account the dissolving of the bunching tissue and later resettling of the lift's final resting position once swelling dissipates yields the best results. I personally had ALOT of overcorrection. In fact I was very concerned the first 2-3 months as even then I was looking overstretched and monster like. My post op photos from day 1-3 months, while you can see a gradual improvement, I still looked like a serpent snake monster because of how stretched my face was. I literally did not look human. But at the 4 month mark I began to look more natural and human-like once the bunching dissolved and my tissues began to relax, albeit my face was still really tight.
> 
> For me, I would fly in and out of the country on business and everytime I would see my friends when I return they would think Ive had something done. I would always get comments like "oh your face looks less tight and more natural". These comments kept repeating until the 2 year mark! I think that is why my results have lasted so long and will continue to last a long time.
> 
> I can only assume if you notice your jowels returning so soon post op that perhaps your surgeon was more to the conservative side?


Thank you for your insight @KCouture. I think for longevity, a full smas imbrication is required and not a macs suspension lift. Looks like I am learning the hard way...threads last year and macs suspension lift this year! lol.


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> This is ageing in an Asian lady in her 70s vs how I look at 5 months postop. It is depressing to see a similar jowl and marionette, albeit not as bad as a 70s but not what I expected at 5 months post a facelift. I have lost confidence in mini or macs suspension facelifts. Now my left and right side have nasolabials, marionettes and jowls.
> 
> View attachment 5273222
> 
> 
> View attachment 5273229


I wonder it's caused by your bone shaving?


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> This is ageing in an Asian lady in her 70s vs how I look at 5 months postop. It is depressing to see a similar jowl and marionette, albeit not as bad as a 70s but not what I expected at 5 months post a facelift. I have lost confidence in mini or macs suspension facelifts. Now my left and right side have nasolabials, marionettes and jowls.
> 
> View attachment 5273222
> 
> 
> View attachment 5273229



I didn't know that the SMAS lift and the Deep Plane facelift are different. Thought it was just interchangeable names.
More modern and advanced facelifting techniques aim to elevate and reposition the deeper underlying tissues of the face. The superficial musculo-aponeurotic system (SMAS) is a fibrous connective tissue layer found beneath the skin and facial fat layer. Elevation of this layer of tissue is vital in achieving a natural facelift result.

A SMAS facelift is considered to be the common standard facelift by most facial plastic surgeons. Addressing the SMAS produces a more natural result and is longer lasting than a skin only lift, however, there are still often inherent issues with unevenness, lumpiness of some skin pulling may still be required.

The Deep Plane Facelift goes just below the SMAS layer and further forwards in the face towards the naso-labial fold (groove between the nose and mouth). When the facial tissues are elevated in this plane, the skin and overlying tissues are able to repositioned in a more vertical orientation. This improves mid-face volume, angles at the corner of the mouth, lines surrounding the mouth, jowls and sharpens the jaw lines. Ultimately, it produces a very natural rejuvenation that will last longer.

Comprehensive Deep Plane Facelifts are highly technical and skilled operations. It is considered to be one of the most advanced facelifting procedures. The deep plane facelift is performed in conjunction with a neck lift. Carefully designed incisions are placed around the ear and underneath the chin. The skin and sub-SMAS layers are meticulously elevated. The SMAS can then be accurately repositioned and secured. Excess skin is trimmed and an absolute tension free closure of the wounds allows for very minimal scarring.


----------



## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> So something id like to share with you after observing the smas and deep plane lifts performed by different surgeons on various patients. This is something I noticed as a constant. The patients who looked like absolute crap immediatedly post op and going into the 2-3 month mark still looking awful, actually end up with the best most long lasting results. The patients who look decent immediatedly post op and look great from the 2-3 month mark onwards most often complain they notice sagging to occur again soon after. This was my concern for you when I saw how good you looked shortly after your surgery. Because you really shouldn't look that good soon after the surgery if long lasting results is the intention.
> 
> What this means is, surgeons who deliberately over correct to take into account the dissolving of the bunching tissue and later resettling of the lift's final resting position once swelling dissipates yields the best results. I personally had ALOT of overcorrection. In fact I was very concerned the first 2-3 months as even then I was looking overstretched and monster like. My post op photos from day 1-3 months, while you can see a gradual improvement, I still looked like a serpent snake monster because of how stretched my face was. I literally did not look human. But at the 4 month mark I began to look more natural and human-like once the bunching dissolved and my tissues began to relax, albeit my face was still really tight.
> 
> For me, I would fly in and out of the country on business and everytime I would see my friends when I return they would think Ive had something done. I would always get comments like "oh your face looks less tight and more natural". These comments kept repeating until the 2 year mark! I think that is why my results have lasted so long and will continue to last a long time.
> 
> I can only assume if you notice your jowels returning so soon post op that perhaps your surgeon was more to the conservative side?



Hey @KCouture correct me if I'm wrong--your FL was done at Dream, is that surgeon still there? May I have his name?


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## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> So something id like to share with you after observing the smas and deep plane lifts performed by different surgeons on various patients. This is something I noticed as a constant. The patients who looked like absolute crap immediatedly post op and going into the 2-3 month mark still looking awful, actually end up with the best most long lasting results. The patients who look decent immediatedly post op and look great from the 2-3 month mark onwards most often complain they notice sagging to occur again soon after. This was my concern for you when I saw how good you looked shortly after your surgery. Because you really shouldn't look that good soon after the surgery if long lasting results is the intention.
> 
> What this means is, surgeons who deliberately over correct to take into account the dissolving of the bunching tissue and later resettling of the lift's final resting position once swelling dissipates yields the best results. I personally had ALOT of overcorrection. In fact I was very concerned the first 2-3 months as even then I was looking overstretched and monster like. My post op photos from day 1-3 months, while you can see a gradual improvement, I still looked like a serpent snake monster because of how stretched my face was. I literally did not look human. But at the 4 month mark I began to look more natural and human-like once the bunching dissolved and my tissues began to relax, albeit my face was still really tight.
> 
> For me, I would fly in and out of the country on business and everytime I would see my friends when I return they would think Ive had something done. I would always get comments like "oh your face looks less tight and more natural". These comments kept repeating until the 2 year mark! I think that is why my results have lasted so long and will continue to last a long time.
> 
> I can only assume if you notice your jowels returning so soon post op that perhaps your surgeon was more to the conservative side?



I was considering Dr Dongman that MissO likes. His post op pics at DAY ONE are amazing, firm jawlines, VLINED faces hardly any bruising etc. which was why he was on my list. 
He did have one patient who came back a couple of years later to show the long standing results of his deep plane fl, admittedly it was a YOUNG GIRL who had FL to correct sagging from FC. Your observation is worrying. And from your own personal experience, it seems I have to find a surgeon who 'over-corrects'.


----------



## lavendine

Transformation2021 said:


> I was considering Dr Dongman that MissO likes. His post op pics at DAY ONE are amazing, firm jawlines, VLINED faces hardly any bruising etc. which was why he was on my list.
> He did have one patient who came back a couple of years later to show the long standing results of his deep plane fl, admittedly it was a YOUNG GIRL who had FL to correct sagging from FC. Your observation is worrying. And from your own personal experience, it seems I have to find a surgeon who 'over-corrects'.



Just get a deep plane facelift instead of MACS suspension. I don't think a deep plane facelift needs substantial overcorrection because it's going under the SMAS layer to vertically reposition everything and there should be no tension in your skin/sutures. Any overcorrected appearance might be due to swelling.

This is exactly why I'm skipping all the mini lifts and going straight for a deep plane facelift in 2022, in my early 30s.

Btw, MissO, you still look good. I know the result little disappointing but I guarantee you still look better than every other ~55 y/o out there.


----------



## MissOrange

lavendine said:


> Just get a deep plane facelift instead of MACS suspension. I don't think a deep plane facelift needs substantial overcorrection because it's going under the SMAS layer to vertically reposition everything and there should be no tension in your skin/sutures. Any overcorrected appearance might be due to swelling.
> 
> This is exactly why I'm skipping all the mini lifts and going straight for a deep plane facelift in 2022, in my early 30s.
> 
> Btw, MissO, you still look good. I know the result little disappointing but I guarantee you still look better than every other ~55 y/o out there.


@lavendine, choose wisely! With a deep plane it is like going for the most complex as your entry level and you are only in your early 30s. I have seen 3 bad deep plane results by British plastic surgeons, one lady had reemergence of her jowls, another ended up looking unnatural and the other had cross cheek depression. I noted that even top U.S. plastic surgeons cannot remove nasolabials and marionettes permanently with a deep plane. I would say go for a smas facelift if you must get a facelift at your young age which is easier to revise in 5-10 years and less costly. The problem with deep plane is you will need revision every 10-15 years and very few want to touch a revision deep plane, ie ages 45, 60 and 75. Most British surgeons will not do facelifts in ladies under 55 because it starts a cycle of facelifts and they hope you only need one more in your 60s. In the US some surgeons discourage 18 year olds from getting breast implants as it also starts a long cycle of explant and exchanges when they leak or rupture. Knowing what I know now about facelifts, I will not do another ever if I can help it as it stretches the skin and separates the layers underneath thereby making it end up looser in the long run with each facelift in my opinion.


----------



## MissOrange

I have been working on how to tighten my face to postpone a smas facelift as it seems all facelifts do not permanently remove nasolabials and marionette lines. I do not want to be on a cycle of facelifts. I thought I must have some fat graft cells remaining after 2 full face fat grafts and 3 top ups. The options were dermal fillers or more fat graft to add volume to the nasolabial and marionette areas but I can’t travel to korea with a hotel quarantine. So here are my results today at 5 months and 10 days postop after tightening my face using conservative measures. I have gone below my surgery weight to 97.2 lbs (bmi 18.4) to try to get a taut Audrey Hepburn or ballerina’s face and have been eating fat in avocado salad and peanut butter jam sandwiches to try to expand any remaining fat graft cells in my lower face to add volume. It seems to be working. The nasolabials and marionettes have softened and the oral commissures are slightly improved, ie not as downturned.


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## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> I have been working on how to tighten my face to postpone a smas facelift as it seems all facelifts do not permanently remove nasolabials and marionette lines. I do not want to be on a cycle of facelifts. I thought I must have some fat graft cells remaining after 2 full face fat grafts and 3 top ups. The options were dermal fillers or more fat graft to add volume to the nasolabial and marionette areas but I can’t travel to korea with a hotel quarantine. So here are my results today at 5 months and 10 days postop after tightening my face using conservative measures. I have gone below my surgery weight to 97.2 lbs (bmi 18.4) to try to get a taut Audrey Hepburn or ballerina’s face and have been eating fat in avocado salad and peanut butter jam sandwiches to try to expand any remaining fat graft cells in my lower face to add volume. It seems to be working. The nasolabials and marionettes have softened and the oral commissures are slightly improved, ie not as downturned.
> 
> View attachment 5274256
> 
> 
> View attachment 5274257
> 
> 
> View attachment 5274258


 
I mean I understand your expectations and standards for this surgery I wouldnt say it is a failure. No where close. I think you still got really nice improvments and look great for your age. One thing you can do though if the jowels are bothering you, is doing a mini touch up lift where the muscles only are tightened. I've seen that performed several times before. It literally only takes 45 mins. Its not a good procedure on its own but its good when used as a touch up


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## MissOrange

Here is my 5 day b&a after adding peanut butter to my diet. What if all our face needs is healthy fats to reinflate a saggy face and nasolabials/marionettes?! The weight on the left is 97.6 vs right 97.2 lbs.


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## MissOrange

I think I may need to go back to radiesse dermal filler for nasolabials. I learned a bit late that facelifts do not remove nasolabials as it needs volume replacement due to loss of bone and fat. After the swelling of a facelift goes away, the nasolabials and marionettes return.


----------



## lavendine

MissOrange said:


> @lavendine, choose wisely! With a deep plane it is like going for the most complex as your entry level and you are only in your early 30s. I have seen 3 bad deep plane results by British plastic surgeons, one lady had reemergence of her jowls, another ended up looking unnatural and the other had cross cheek depression. I noted that even top U.S. plastic surgeons cannot remove nasolabials and marionettes permanently with a deep plane. I would say go for a smas facelift if you must get a facelift at your young age which is easier to revise in 5-10 years and less costly. The problem with deep plane is you will need revision every 10-15 years and very few want to touch a revision deep plane, ie ages 45, 60 and 75. Most British surgeons will not do facelifts in ladies under 55 because it starts a cycle of facelifts and they hope you only need one more in your 60s. In the US some surgeons discourage 18 year olds from getting breast implants as it also starts a long cycle of explant and exchanges when they leak or rupture. Knowing what I know now about facelifts, I will not do another ever if I can help it as it stretches the skin and separates the layers underneath thereby making it end up looser in the long run with each facelift in my opinion.



I will def be choosing wisely! The question of whether to get a deep plane facelift is not really about chronological age, but the issues you're trying to fix. In my case, my skin quality is very good and youthful -- 0 wrinkles, minimal nasolabials and marionettes. However, I have a very round/chubby Asian face and gravity has started to give me an undefined jawline. Deep plane makes the most sense for me because I want a defined neck and jawline to carry me into ~45 or so before I need to readdress it. A mini, MACS, or SMAS lift would not address my loosening jawline/neck area.

As for your returning nasolabials and marionettes, you still look literally 25 years younger than you actually are. It is normal and natural to have _some_ signs of aging simply as a result of not being 20 anymore. I hope this doesn't sound preachy because I respect you and your choices, but I would encourage you to come to peace with your current results. There is no need to be laser-focused on "perfection" when you already look incredible and I would say your SMAS lift was super successful!


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## MissOrange

lavendine said:


> I will def be choosing wisely! The question of whether to get a deep plane facelift is not really about chronological age, but the issues you're trying to fix. In my case, my skin quality is very good and youthful -- 0 wrinkles, minimal nasolabials and marionettes. However, I have a very round/chubby Asian face and gravity has started to give me an undefined jawline. Deep plane makes the most sense for me because I want a defined neck and jawline to carry me into ~45 or so before I need to readdress it. A mini, MACS, or SMAS lift would not address my loosening jawline/neck area.
> 
> As for your returning nasolabials and marionettes, you still look literally 25 years younger than you actually are. It is normal and natural to have _some_ signs of aging simply as a result of not being 20 anymore. I hope this doesn't sound preachy because I respect you and your choices, but I would encourage you to come to peace with your current results. There is no need to be laser-focused on "perfection" when you already look incredible and I would say your SMAS lift was super successful!


Thank you @lavendine, I just had my video consult with Nick and we have agreed we are getting there and a revision in the New Year would deal with any residual laxity. I agree my face is better than it was before the facelift so hoping this revision will give me back my months 1-3 face on a more permanent basis. Pencilled in for January 31. I simply cannot afford $20k for an extensive revision facelift with Dr Park in Korea and more with flights and 3 weeks of hotels including a 10 day quarantine for a tweakment.


----------



## Transformation2021

This 67 year old could afford Kao. This was her at 2 months


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> This 67 year old could afford Kao. This was her at 2 months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5276702
> View attachment 5276699
> View attachment 5276699


Check the quality of her skin post op with NO SKIN RESURFACING. Skin resurfacing is problematic for Asians as the lasers can cause hyperpigmentation etc. Check NASAL FOLDS GONE. Check THE NECK. Check the wrinkly forehead and the after with NO FOREHEAD LIFT.


----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> Check the quality of her skin post op with NO SKIN RESURFACING. Skin resurfacing is problematic for Asians as the lasers can cause hyperpigmentation etc. Check NASAL FOLDS GONE. Check THE NECK. Check the wrinkly forehead and the after with NO FOREHEAD LIFT.



I also just happened to come across this Dr's IG account today.  I find his work really good, esp since he deals with Asian faces and skin.

I wonder if the better-looking skin is due to foundation?  Overall, the results are really good.


----------



## Transformation2021

Lien said:


> I also just happened to come across this Dr's IG account today.  I find his work really good, esp since he deals with Asian faces and skin.
> 
> I wonder if the better-looking skin is due to foundation?  Overall, the results are really good.


LOL foundation! Her before skin was so wrinkly. Unless your skin is in great condition, foundation just goes into the creases and highlights how ‘old’ you are. What impressed me is how he got her skin to this quality without laser resurfacing which doesn’t suit most Asian skin. You really have to blow up the pics to look at her before forehead.
Kao is about $75,000 USD up to $110,000 USD for celebrities eg that’s what the goss is saying Kelly Osbourne paid.


----------



## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> LOL foundation! Her before skin was so wrinkly. Unless your skin is in great condition, foundation just goes into the creases and highlights how ‘old’ you are. What impressed me is how he got her skin to this quality without laser resurfacing which doesn’t suit most Asian skin. You really have to blow up the pics to look at her before forehead.
> Kao is about $75,000 USD up to $110,000 USD for celebrities eg that’s what the goss is saying Kelly Osbourne paid.



The after definitely has either a filter or additional light source on it tho. She is also smiling in the after so there is deliberate muscle elevation too. Face lift doesn't change the skin condition unfortunately just the tightness and elasticity. Old skin is old skin sadly . Ive seen women in their 40ss and up who use the highest quality skin treatments to maintain youthful skin and while it does help, you just need to compare to women in their early 20s to know it still will never be that same youthful level. Regardless, that facelift is definitely good results tho.

Also regarding foundation on older skin. Here's a technique you can use which always works. I have dryer skin and I used to have the problem of having patchy flakey make up because of it. My mother who is now in her 70s has the same issue as me. Genetic I guess. Anyways the secret to have flawless make up despite your skin condition, is to prep like hell. My skincare routine is like this:

Step 1: Sulwashoo Serum + Sulwashoo eye Serum + Sulwashoo cream. That leaves my skin super oily and hydrated.
Step 2: Immediatedly after I use a wet beauty blender + charlotte tilbury light wonder foundation which is a dewy make up, and then I mix in hera BB cusion and eye brightening cream. Blend blend blend and flawless
Step 3: DO NOT use powders at all. The only powder I use is bronzer for contouring the cheekbones. I do not put powder anywhere else, especially not my tzone. Powder will just dry up myskin and turn it flakey. The end result is a super dewy glowy natual looking skin finish.


----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> LOL foundation! Her before skin was so wrinkly. Unless your skin is in great condition, foundation just goes into the creases and highlights how ‘old’ you are. What impressed me is how he got her skin to this quality without laser resurfacing which doesn’t suit most Asian skin. You really have to blow up the pics to look at her before forehead.
> Kao is about $75,000 USD up to $110,000 USD for celebrities eg that’s what the goss is saying Kelly Osbourne paid.



Ah ok, lol.  If the after pic is all her bare skin, then that's super great result.

I didn't realise either Kao was so expensive!!


----------



## Lien

K Couture said:


> The after definitely has either a filter or additional light source on it tho. She is also smiling in the after so there is deliberate muscle elevation too. Face lift doesn't change the skin condition unfortunately just the tightness and elasticity. Old skin is old skin sadly . Ive seen women in their 40ss and up who use the highest quality skin treatments to maintain youthful skin and while it does help, you just need to compare to women in their early 20s to know it still will never be that same youthful level. Regardless, that facelift is definitely good results tho.
> 
> Also regarding foundation on older skin. Here's a technique you can use which always works. I have dryer skin and I used to have the problem of having patchy flakey make up because of it. My mother who is now in her 70s has the same issue as me. Genetic I guess. Anyways the secret to have flawless make up despite your skin condition, is to prep like hell. My skincare routine is like this:
> 
> Step 1: Sulwashoo Serum + Sulwashoo eye Serum + Sulwashoo cream. That leaves my skin super oily and hydrated.
> Step 2: Immediatedly after I use a wet beauty blender + charlotte tilbury light wonder foundation which is a dewy make up, and then I mix in hera BB cusion and eye brightening cream. Blend blend blend and flawless
> Step 3: DO NOT use powders at all. The only powder I use is bronzer for contouring the cheekbones. I do not put powder anywhere else, especially not my tzone. Powder will just dry up myskin and turn it flakey. The end result is a super dewy glowy natual looking skin finish.



Yes, agreed that there must be a filter or different lighting.  

Thanks for the tip re flawless makeup.  I've never tried Sulwashoo skincare before and have always wondered.  I too have dry skin so will definitely try this.  I never use powder either.


----------



## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> The after definitely has either a filter or additional light source on it tho. She is also smiling in the after so there is deliberate muscle elevation too. Face lift doesn't change the skin condition unfortunately just the tightness and elasticity. Old skin is old skin sadly . Ive seen women in their 40ss and up who use the highest quality skin treatments to maintain youthful skin and while it does help, you just need to compare to women in their early 20s to know it still will never be that same youthful level. Regardless, that facelift is definitely good results tho.
> 
> Also regarding foundation on older skin. Here's a technique you can use which always works. I have dryer skin and I used to have the problem of having patchy flakey make up because of it. My mother who is now in her 70s has the same issue as me. Genetic I guess. Anyways the secret to have flawless make up despite your skin condition, is to prep like hell. My skincare routine is like this:
> 
> Step 1: Sulwashoo Serum + Sulwashoo eye Serum + Sulwashoo cream. That leaves my skin super oily and hydrated.
> Step 2: Immediatedly after I use a wet beauty blender + charlotte tilbury light wonder foundation which is a dewy make up, and then I mix in hera BB cusion and eye brightening cream. Blend blend blend and flawless
> Step 3: DO NOT use powders at all. The only powder I use is bronzer for contouring the cheekbones. I do not put powder anywhere else, especially not my tzone. Powder will just dry up myskin and turn it flakey. The end result is a super dewy glowy natual looking skin finish.


Too much work! In Aussie hot summer that would make me perspire like a waterfall and I would have to wipe the sweat off with a towel which then removes my makeup


K Couture said:


> The after definitely has either a filter or additional light source on it tho. She is also smiling in the after so there is deliberate muscle elevation too. Face lift doesn't change the skin condition unfortunately just the tightness and elasticity. Old skin is old skin sadly . Ive seen women in their 40ss and up who use the highest quality skin treatments to maintain youthful skin and while it does help, you just need to compare to women in their early 20s to know it still will never be that same youthful level. Regardless, that facelift is definitely good results tho.
> 
> Also regarding foundation on older skin. Here's a technique you can use which always works. I have dryer skin and I used to have the problem of having patchy flakey make up because of it. My mother who is now in her 70s has the same issue as me. Genetic I guess. Anyways the secret to have flawless make up despite your skin condition, is to prep like hell. My skincare routine is like this:
> 
> Step 1: Sulwashoo Serum + Sulwashoo eye Serum + Sulwashoo cream. That leaves my skin super oily and hydrated.
> Step 2: Immediatedly after I use a wet beauty blender + charlotte tilbury light wonder foundation which is a dewy make up, and then I mix in hera BB cusion and eye brightening cream. Blend blend blend and flawless
> Step 3: DO NOT use powders at all. The only powder I use is bronzer for contouring the cheekbones. I do not put powder anywhere else, especially not my tzone. Powder will just dry up myskin and turn it flakey. The end result is a super dewy glowy natual looking skin finish.


Yikes some of the Sulwashoo serums and creams are selling up to US $200 a pop.
I'm going to steal your routine.


----------



## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> The after definitely has either a filter or additional light source on it tho. She is also smiling in the after so there is deliberate muscle elevation too. Face lift doesn't change the skin condition unfortunately just the tightness and elasticity. Old skin is old skin sadly . Ive seen women in their 40ss and up who use the highest quality skin treatments to maintain youthful skin and while it does help, you just need to compare to women in their early 20s to know it still will never be that same youthful level. Regardless, that facelift is definitely good results tho.
> 
> Also regarding foundation on older skin. Here's a technique you can use which always works. I have dryer skin and I used to have the problem of having patchy flakey make up because of it. My mother who is now in her 70s has the same issue as me. Genetic I guess. Anyways the secret to have flawless make up despite your skin condition, is to prep like hell. My skincare routine is like this:
> 
> Step 1: Sulwashoo Serum + Sulwashoo eye Serum + Sulwashoo cream. That leaves my skin super oily and hydrated.
> Step 2: Immediatedly after I use a wet beauty blender + charlotte tilbury light wonder foundation which is a dewy make up, and then I mix in hera BB cusion and eye brightening cream. Blend blend blend and flawless
> Step 3: DO NOT use powders at all. The only powder I use is bronzer for contouring the cheekbones. I do not put powder anywhere else, especially not my tzone. Powder will just dry up myskin and turn it flakey. The end result is a super dewy glowy natual looking skin finish.
> 
> 
> Lien said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok, lol.  If the after pic is all her bare skin, then that's super great result.
> 
> I didn't realise either Kao was so expensive!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some results from ASPS although they don't advertise facelifts anymore.
Click to expand...


----------



## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> Too much work! In Aussie hot summer that would make me perspire like a waterfall and I would have to wipe the sweat off with a towel which then removes my makeup



Actually its not that bad when you sweat. I just pad it down and surprisingly it doesn't get blotchy. I think its because the make up itself is really light and dewy. I only get the blotchyness when i wipe if I use heavy cakey make up. I would say its make up style is tolerable in Aussie summer cos we are more dry than humid. Buttttttt its a nightmare in south east asia. My god its like swimming in sweat and it just melts off you.


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> This 67 year old could afford Kao. This was her at 2 months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5276702
> View attachment 5276699
> View attachment 5276699


The b&a have different lighting.


----------



## MissOrange

The problem facing ladies who spend a fortune on their first facelift is that prices go up every year, the surgeon may retire, the surgeon may stop doing revisions, the first surgeon may refuse a revision on you or few if any surgeon would take on another surgeon’s facelift as a revision case. In the UK the most expensive is Bray who was £27k but has now been quoted at £47k! I think if you can get your first surgeon to revise for free or a discounted price, this is best but if not be prepared to have surgeons turn you down or charge you +++ because you are a revision. Dr Rajiv Grover who was past president of baaps is not doing any more revisions of other surgeon’s work and his website says the limit for facelifts is 3! If a smas facelift you expected to last 10 years only lasts 3, then it is easy to see how the cycle of facelifts begins. I am assuming my revision is free and it will make my face look super for my daughter’s wedding but then I know I am then down to only one FL left and for that I will choose Dr Dongman Park for his extended smas lift but need to ensure he does a smasectomy and not just oversewing of the smas layer and pray it lasts 15 years to take me into my 70s.


----------



## MissOrange

Finally! A youtube video showing how to create a facelift with the power of makeup!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Finally! A youtube video showing how to create a facelift with the power of makeup!




Thank you so much for that, @MissOrange .  I find the part about the contouring and placement of blusher most helpful.

This woman is beautiful, whatever age she is.  Didn't know who she was til just now.  I also notice her beautiful teeth.  I am about to have braces and most likely veneers for the front teeth.  I note @MissOrange that you've had veneers.  Have you ever had braces?


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , what do you think of this?  I like that it's done under local and it seems to basically address my main issues which are jowls, sagging chin and marionette lines.  I am aware that this is a much younger patient.  I have issues all over as an older woman but  would be happy just to have the lower face addressed in the near term.


----------



## Transformation2021

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , what do you think of this?  I like that it's done under local and it seems to basically address my main issues which are jowls, sagging chin and marionette lines.  I am aware that this is a much younger patient.  I have issues all over as an older woman but  would be happy just to have the lower face addressed in the near term.
> 
> View attachment 5278481


The famous Dr Calabria. Two years just to get a consult.
Save your pennies.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> The famous Dr Calabria. Two years just to get a consult.
> Save your pennies.


Be aware as she’s younger this was a mini-lift


----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> The famous Dr Calabria. Two years just to get a consult.
> Save your pennies.



Nooooo!!


----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> Be aware as she’s younger this was a mini-lift



Yes, I am perfectly aware.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Finally! A youtube video showing how to create a facelift with the power of makeup!




There's a product I purchased from ebay just to play around with after I saw some chinese tiktokers using it for dramatic make up. hI would only use it for fun / taking photos. Its a bit ridiculous going out in public with tape all over your face hahah


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Thank you so much for that, @MissOrange .  I find the part about the contouring and placement of blusher most helpful.
> 
> This woman is beautiful, whatever age she is.  Didn't know who she was til just now.  I also notice her beautiful teeth.  I am about to have braces and most likely veneers for the front teeth.  I note @MissOrange that you've had veneers.  Have you ever had braces?


Hi @Lien,

Yes I had braces in my 20s! Veneers are great as braces alone do not make your teeth white and perfectly shaped. In hindsight I would not have picked such a bright white shade for my teeth as they remind me of the episode on Friends when Ross gets his teeth over whitened. Porcelain veneers last a decade but they are extremely expensive now at £1k per tooth!


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , what do you think of this?  I like that it's done under local and it seems to basically address my main issues which are jowls, sagging chin and marionette lines.  I am aware that this is a much younger patient.  I have issues all over as an older woman but  would be happy just to have the lower face addressed in the near term.
> 
> View attachment 5278481


Hi @Lien, the problem is this is a 2 week post picture and as it is done under local, the area was probably filled with tumescent fluid with local anaesthetic. This in itself adds volume and lifts. I say never judge a b&a until after 4 months minimum and ideally after 1 year.


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> There's a product I purchased from ebay just to play around with after I saw some chinese tiktokers using it for dramatic make up. hI would only use it for fun / taking photos. Its a bit ridiculous going out in public with tape all over your face hahah



Hi @KCouture, this made me laugh. I bought transparent lifting tape on ebay from china and it was too fiddly to take off the protective film to apply and then I would mess it up as the glue just made the tape stick to itself. I think I went through 4 just to apply 1. It looked like tiny bandaids. I could never wear it out as it cannot be concealed with makeup but it did make me think I need a facelift!


----------



## Lien

K Couture said:


> There's a product I purchased from ebay just to play around with after I saw some chinese tiktokers using it for dramatic make up. hI would only use it for fun / taking photos. Its a bit ridiculous going out in public with tape all over your face hahah




Does it even work?


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien,
> 
> Yes I had braces in my 20s! Veneers are great as braces alone do not make your teeth white and perfectly shaped. In hindsight I would not have picked such a bright white shade for my teeth as they remind me of the episode on Friends when Ross gets his teeth over whitened. Porcelain veneers last a decade but they are extremely expensive now at £1k per tooth!



I remember that episode! lmao!

Porcelain are better than resin veneers, @MissOrange?


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien, the problem is this is a 2 week post picture and as it is done under local, the area was probably filled with tumescent fluid with local anaesthetic. This in itself adds volume and lifts. I say never judge a b&a until after 4 months minimum and ideally after 1 year.



Oh yes, I remember you mentioning this before.  Let me stalk in his IG account and see if there are any at least 4 months post-op.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @KCouture, this made me laugh. I bought transparent lifting tape on ebay from china and it was too fiddly to take off the protective film to apply and then I would mess it up as the glue just made the tape stick to itself. I think I went through 4 just to apply 1. It looked like tiny bandaids. I could never wear it out as it cannot be concealed with makeup but it did make me think I need a facelift!


hahahah well youre meant to wear your hair down to conceal the tape. But imagine when the wind blows and your hair flies off your face and everyone can see your taped up face rofl. Its too slippery for make up to cover it unless you use kryolan stage make up which is super cakey.


----------



## K Couture

Lien said:


> Does it even work?


It does.......indoors and when youre alone HAHA. Its fun to take photos tho. but i kept sticking to my baby hairs -_-


----------



## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> It does.......indoors and when youre alone HAHA. Its fun to take photos tho. but i kept sticking to my baby hairs -_-


@K Couture, before my facelift, I tried to use strands of my temple hair and pull my face back like threads and tie them tightly together in the back of my head or tie my hair up in a high ponytail. I was so desperate for something to pull my face tight and lift it. At the end of the day, when one is doing that, one needs a facelift. 41 days and counting to my revision. Even trimming another 1-2 cms of skin will help as my worst day post VR is much better than my worst day pre VR and of course my best face days post VR are so much better than my best face days pre VR.

I even bought stage fake nose putty on ebay but it wouldn’t stick to my nose as I wanted to see what I would look like with a bigger nose! lol.


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> @K Couture, before my facelift, I tried to use strands of my temple hair and pull my face back like threads and tie them tightly together in the back of my head or tie my hair up in a high ponytail. I was so desperate for something to pull my face tight and lift it. At the end of the day, when one is doing that, one needs a facelift. 41 days and counting to my revision. Even trimming another 1-2 cms of skin will help as my worst day post VR is much better than my worst day pre VR and of course my best face days post VR are so much better than my best face days pre VR.
> 
> I even bought stage fake nose putty on ebay but it wouldn’t stick to my nose as I wanted to see what I would look like with a bigger nose! lol.



hahahah i used the nose putty too. I was trying to do it how those chinese tiktokers did their crazy transformation. Actually using the tape on my forehead and pulling my brows up is what told me i definitely needed to do the endo brow lift. My face is youthful after the smas but i got old lady forehead -_-


----------



## catelet

MissOrange said:


> Finally! A youtube video showing how to create a facelift with the power of makeup!



Great video--great tips, too. I should try false lashes someday. She's beautiful, but perhaps over-using lip filler it appears. Her mouth looks larger than when I saw her older videos. I could be wrong, though. I do think she's likely had a facelift with that perfectly tight jaw line--if it is, it appears very well done. Also, it appears there are filters on the camera though. But there's no denying she's a beautiful lady and she has great videos I've seen others by her. I kind of liked her eye with more eyeliner lol. I see what she means though about the lifting affect with less though--she's so good with makeup and explains it well. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Transformation2021

HIFU is the answer to our nasal folds. Not very popular in the US but it is in the UK and Australia.


----------



## Transformation2021




----------



## Transformation2021




----------



## Transformation2021




----------



## Transformation2021

Not sure if this woman had a facelift or not. Great anti-aging off a TikTok vid


----------



## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> HIFU is the answer to our nasal folds. Not very popular in the US but it is in the UK and Australia.
> View attachment 5280418


Im sorry to break it to you but Hifu, while it makes a difference, is only mild and doesnt erase the nasolabial folds at all. Hifu is basically a cheaper knock off version of Ulthera. There's different brands of Hifu (hifu is a generic name) some work better than others but the Ulthera is the one that yields the best results, but still its only a very mild improvement and doesnt work on the naso folds unfortunately. I know this because in my business we own one original Ulthera machine and one korean hifu machine. Its impossible to have such dramatic results. But for best results the thermage + ulthera together is ideal.


----------



## catelet

@MissOrange, what are your thoughts on microcurrent devices? I was thinking of getting one at Nordstrom or elsewhere. It seems a lot of people report some type of lifting effect, I was considering getting one but welcome others' thoughts/experiences.


----------



## MOTTY26

K Couture said:


> Im sorry to break it to you but Hifu, while it makes a difference, is only mild and doesnt erase the nasolabial folds at all. Hifu is basically a cheaper knock off version of Ulthera. There's different brands of Hifu (hifu is a generic name) some work better than others but the Ulthera is the one that yields the best results, but still its only a very mild improvement and doesnt work on the naso folds unfortunately. I know this because in my business we own one original Ulthera machine and one korean hifu machine. Its impossible to have such dramatic results. But for best results the thermage + ulthera together is ideal.




Hi K, howbout FG for nasolabial folds?


----------



## K Couture

MOTTY26 said:


> Hi K, howbout FG for nasolabial folds?


omg motty hi. how have you been? its been so long 

Umm i don't recommend it. The survivability is low for the naso folds because of constant unavoidable movement when we speak and eat which makes results not last long. That and the nasfold is actually just a skin flap with no underlying structure so risk of migration of fat graft is higher too. Filler is much better because it lasts a little longer and you can dissolve it if migration happens. I mean its not realistic to keep harvesting fat and reinjecting that area. 

The best results i've seen are actually paranasal implants but the problem with that is most people end up removing it because it restricts your smile muscles and having to constantly feel the implant there when you are speaking and eating isnt a pleasant thing.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange, what are your thoughts on microcurrent devices? I was thinking of getting one at Nordstrom or elsewhere. It seems a lot of people report some type of lifting effect, I was considering getting one but welcome others' thoughts/experiences.


Hi @catelet,

Happy Christmas! I haven't researched this. I miss bargain hunting in the Nordstrom's Rack! Brings back memories.

I have used incognito mode and omg the train ticket to York return was only £37 instead of £78-£110! And I paid £37 for a night at the travelodge in York instead of £67! I would highly recommend going incognito to avoid price surges from cookies! I have less than 5 weeks now to revision. Here is my good face day on xmas day with facelift makeup and a bmi of 18 and my bad face day on boxing day. Can't wait for the revision. The bad face day is nowhere near as bad as before the VR, so the revision should trim a bit more skin and fingers crossed no more bad face days. I have a box of radiesse for nasolabial folds to use just before my daughter's wedding.


----------



## Otto8

Thank you so much, MissOrange. 

I am also in the UK and am about to see a consultant regarding my first facelift and surgery around the eye area.

I am 50 and have similar issues to you (except I don't want a nose job).

I would be grateful for advice and what sort of procedures to ask for regarding a good facelift to get rid of that jowly-look around the jawline, and making sure it lasts. I am not keen on revision (who is? . Plus we only have three shots at the face lifts.

I probably will also want to get rid of sagging eyelid skin, maybe also look at Canthoplasty. I don't just want to look at the consultant's advice and take it at face value.  I believe it pays to understand what he is proposing. 

Thank you so much for your insight.

I have used profhilo on my skin and I have to say that it is good for the skin and makes me look fresher.


----------



## Otto8

Ok.  To summarise, after reading the entire thread of 177 pages:

1. MVP if you can.

2. Mr Nick Rhodes is also good.  I always thought only Mr Jag Chana.

3. VR facelift is good but it can sag very quickly again, so deep plane.

4.  Deep plane is highly specialised and costly.  Might be worth considering only later on as 2nd or third face lift.  If doing this, there is someone called Dr Karri who can do this at a reasonable price.

5.  No full face fat grafting.

6.  Focus on fat grafiting on eye area.

7.   Not discussed - vaser lipo and I probably want this for fat on the back and the waist.  I am not fat but have stubborn fat.

8.  When in York Travel Lodge is good.  Red Chillies Chinese Restaurant.  I doubt I will do this though.

9.  £3k extra if you cannot bear local anaesthetic - I think I will do this.  I already dislike it when I get my Profhilo top ups.  Botox is not bad but wow! Profhilo hurts.  A lot. 

10.  If having lip lift, make sure it is not just cutting out 11 to 13 mm.  Make sure the surgeon also everts the lip.

11.  No staples for me too.   So must check this with the surgeon before doing it.

12.  Lose weight to ideal weight before surgery.  So you don't end up with loose skin after your FL that needs further tightening.

13.  Consider hair transplant if needed.  I do have a high forehead.   Cost is around £4700.  Wimpole Clinic somewhere.  I think.  

There.    I am only putting it here so I can refer to this before my consultation.  Not wanting to hijack your thread.  I am summarising your very good advice so I can look it up easily.

Thank you so much!


----------



## Otto8

@miss Orange, one thing I could not find was your experience with Radiesse fillers. 
My biggest fear is to end up with a puffy fat face.  I am Asian, so I have always avoided fillers because of this fear.  Perhaps it is my misconception.   Please, do you know anyone who does fillers in the UK?  And was it a good experience for you?

I don't have nasolabial folds yet.  But I was wondering what fillers could be used for.  

Thank you so much!


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange, you should seriously consider starting a group like Linda Briggs where people pay you to advise on where to go, what to do, etc and you make arrangements etc, and people also pay you for making these arrangements.  

I would gladly sign up and be your client.  You really really should.


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange, you should seriously consider starting a group like Linda Briggs where people pay you to advise on where to go, what to do, etc and you make arrangements etc, and people also pay you for making these arrangements.
> 
> *I would gladly sign up and be your client*.  You really really should.



Me too.

Now, who's his Linda Briggs?


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> @miss Orange, one thing I could not find was your experience with Radiesse fillers.
> My biggest fear is to end up with a puffy fat face.  I am Asian, so I have always avoided fillers because of this fear.  Perhaps it is my misconception.   Please, do you know anyone who does fillers in the UK?  And was it a good experience for you?
> 
> I don't have nasolabial folds yet.  But I was wondering what fillers could be used for.
> 
> Thank you so much!



I am not @MissOrange range (obviously, lol).  But I've had fillers to my cheeks, since with ageing your cheeks become sunken.  They helped for a while and now I have a "pillow face".  It's still not bad bad, but it's not great.  When I have a FL, I may have to have the fillers taken out.  I don't want to have them dissolved, as I don't want the chemicals injected into me.  So the surgeon (whoever that is), would have to lift up my skin (which layers I dunno) and scrape the filler bits out.  Despite what they tell you, fillers do not get absorbed into your body.  They stay forever.  Last time I had fillers were 3.5 years ago!

Oh, fillers to the nasolabial lines don't work.  At least, my PS couldn't make them work.  The fillers kept migrating to my cheeks making my already big cheeks bigger!


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Ok.  To summarise, after reading the entire thread of 177 pages:
> 
> 1. MVP if you can.
> 
> 2. Mr Nick Rhodes is also good.  I always thought only Mr Jag Chana.
> 
> 3. VR facelift is good but it can sag very quickly again, so deep plane.
> 
> 4.  Deep plane is highly specialised and costly.  Might be worth considering only later on as 2nd or third face lift.  If doing this, there is someone called Dr Karri who can do this at a reasonable price.
> 
> 5.  No full face fat grafting.
> 
> 6.  Focus on fat grafiting on eye area.
> 
> 7.   Not discussed - vaser lipo and I probably want this for fat on the back and the waist.  I am not fat but have stubborn fat.
> 
> 8.  When in York Travel Lodge is good.  Red Chillies Chinese Restaurant.  I doubt I will do this though.
> 
> 9.  £3k extra if you cannot bear local anaesthetic - I think I will do this.  I already dislike it when I get my Profhilo top ups.  Botox is not bad but wow! Profhilo hurts.  A lot.
> 
> 10.  If having lip lift, make sure it is not just cutting out 11 to 13 mm.  Make sure the surgeon also everts the lip.
> 
> 11.  No staples for me too.   So must check this with the surgeon before doing it.
> 
> 12.  Lose weight to ideal weight before surgery.  So you don't end up with loose skin after your FL that needs further tightening.
> 
> 13.  Consider hair transplant if needed.  I do have a high forehead.   Cost is around £4700.  Wimpole Clinic somewhere.  I think.
> 
> There.    I am only putting it here so I can refer to this before my consultation.  Not wanting to hijack your thread.  I am summarising your very good advice so I can look it up easily.
> 
> Thank you so much!


Hi @Otto8, I am really flattered you read and summarised my pages! Okay a few amendments. Take off Dr Karri as he has been suspended by the GMC. Deep plane should be after you have tried smasectomy. Always ask FL surgeons if they do smasectomy as smas plication, ie oversewing, does not last as long ss cutting and trimming the smas. Facelifts do not remove nasolabials or marionettes permanently. It only removes jowls in the jawline and necklifts lift the neck and can be combined with neck lipo. Full face fat grafting is great for temples, upper eyelid hollows and foreheads. Lip lifts should trim the philtrum so the philtrum length is ideally between 11-13 mms for ladies. I had a 20 mm philtrum so had 9 mms trimmed off. You do not want to trim 13 mms and end up with a 7 mm philtrum! That is way too short. I had vaser lipo to my tummy snd thighs and hated it. Took months for the tumescent fluid to dissipate. Would never recommend this. Only get traditional liposuction the old fashioned way. David Floyd did a fab liposuction of my lower body to harvest fat for my breasts and my thighs are still 17 inches! I bet you can ask him to just do the liposuction for your waist and back if you do not need breast augmentation.


----------



## MissOrange

This is the work of the most expensive UK facelift surgeon showing nasolabials and marionettes a year post a deep plane FL/NL. It looks like neck lifts are great for lifting the neck and can be combined with neck liposuction but no matter how much one pays for a deep plane in the US or UK, the nasolabials and marionettes may reappear after the first 3-4 months of swelling disappears. The nasolabials can be treated with radiesse dermal filler (but yes in the wrong hands it can lead to migration to the cheeks like @Lien mentioned and a pillow face appearance), paranasal implants (done in Korea but not the UK) and facial fat grafting. I noticed +++ rehydration can lift depressed nasolabials temporarily too. The lines are from volume loss (fat and bone as we age).

I have 30 days to go now to my revision Vr FL. I am trying everything to try to tighten the face, even 30% glycolic acid peels for 2.5 minutes once a week and keeping well hydrated.


----------



## MissOrange

I have noticed that any bad sag faces are in the evening when I am tired and taken in poor lighting which casts shadows. And sure enough these research papers mention that facial muscles get tired and cause the eyelids to droop as well as the corners of the mouth! And how caffeine, a warm bath, hydration and eating more protein can help! I used to bathe in the evening after work but since I retired I have been bathing in the morning! Wow! Could it be this simple? No wonder I look better in morning selfies. My facial muscles are tired by 10 pm and the face then sags!!! So the solution is before a date night, to have caffeine in coffee, drink water, eat a spoon full of peanut butter protein and have a warm bath in the evening! Maybe this also explains why after 2.5 minutes of 30% glycolic acid my face looked tighter and more lifted! The acid caused the facial muscles to contract and tighten! So I may have a muscle problem and not skin, fat loss or smas problem.


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , where do I get these 30% glycolic acid peels please?


----------



## Otto8

@Lien ,  I am not Miss Orange but I can tell you what I do. 

I used to use the cosmedix peels. The Benefit peel or the Blueberry smoothie are very nice. (You could get this on Ebay but I am not sure if these are expired items. You could go to a doctor but I found it costly and time consuming to do so). 

Or else there is the obagi blue peel (I have never tried), although I think the blue is a gimmick and there are equivalent peels out there not blue in colour.

Nowadays, instead of a peel, like to use profhilo every three months.

Every alternate night, I use a bit of tretonoin 0.05 for my skin.  You have to build up to this tolerance and get used to it.


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> @Lien ,  I am not Miss Orange but I can tell you what I do.
> 
> I used to use the cosmedix peels. The Benefit peel or the Blueberry smoothie are very nice. (You could get this on Ebay but I am not sure if these are expired items. You could go to a doctor but I found it costly and time consuming to do so).
> 
> Or else there is the obagi blue peel (I have never tried), although I think the blue is a gimmick and there are equivalent peels out there not blue in colour.
> 
> Nowadays, instead of a peel, like to use profhilo every three months.
> 
> Every alternate night, I use a bit of tretonoin 0.05 for my skin.  You have to build up to this tolerance and get used to it.



Wow. Thanks for all the information.

I will try the peels.

I've read so many reviews on tretonoin.  Can I use it if I have sensitive and dry skin? I see that most people who use it have oily and/ or acne skin.  And when you say you have to build up tolerance, what does this mean?  Do you use it once a week or less until your skin becomes less inflamed to it?  I've used Retin-A and it worked beautifully initially.  But after 6 months, I seem to have develop a resistance/allergy to it, meaning my skin becomes very very itchy when I use it.

ETA: how bad is the "purge"?


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> Wow. Thanks for all the information.
> 
> I will try the peels.
> 
> I've read so many reviews on tretonoin.  Can I use it if I have sensitive and dry skin? I see that most people who use it have oily and/ or acne skin.  And when you say you have to build up tolerance, what does this mean?  Do you use it once a week or less until your skin becomes less inflamed to it?  I've used Retin-A and it worked beautifully initially.  But after 6 months, I seem to have develop a resistance/allergy to it, meaning my skin becomes very very itchy when I use it.
> 
> ETA: how bad is the "purge"?



I have oily skin and it was initially prescribed for bad acne.  

I use a tiny amount alternate nights and that seems to help my skin exfoliate better.  I use 0.05 strength.   So in one week of 7 days, I am using 4 days.  

I went ahead even when the skin was itchy so now I tolerate it well. 

I would use Tretonoin nightly except that now I have Profhilo and I sort of decreased the tretonoin because my skin looks so fresh. 

I think peels are great once in a while but I have not felt the need for it since I switched to Tretonoin and then added on Profhilo.


----------



## Transformation2021

57 yr old 8 months post after FL, neck lift, brow lift (which raised her hairline but it's growing back), lip lift (her lips are wonky from a dog bite scar), CO2 laser resurfacing to her skin, fat transfer and upper and lower eyes done. She's had 2 open neck operations to repair her spine which could explain why her neck lift is not has tight as. She also explained she didn't have rhinoplasty, apparently selfies from phones does something to your nose. She said she saved herself $75k by not going to Jacono.


----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> 57 yr old 8 months post after FL, neck lift, brow lift (which raised her hairline but it's growing back), lip lift (her lips are wonky from a dog bite scar), CO2 laser resurfacing to her skin, fat transfer and upper and lower eyes done. She's had 2 open neck operations to repair her spine which could explain why her neck lift is not has tight as. She also explained she didn't have rhinoplasty, apparently selfies from phones does something to your nose. She said she saved herself $75k by not going to Jacono.
> View attachment 5287548
> 
> View attachment 5287549



Who did she go to?  She looks amazing!!


----------



## Otto8

Deleted.


----------



## catelet

Transformation2021 said:


> 57 yr old 8 months post after FL, neck lift, brow lift (which raised her hairline but it's growing back), lip lift (her lips are wonky from a dog bite scar), CO2 laser resurfacing to her skin, fat transfer and upper and lower eyes done. She's had 2 open neck operations to repair her spine which could explain why her neck lift is not has tight as. She also explained she didn't have rhinoplasty, apparently selfies from phones does something to your nose. She said she saved herself $75k by not going to Jacono.
> View attachment 5287548
> 
> View attachment 5287549


She looks great--beautiful woman, but honestly I dislike too much lip filler--it makes the mouth look too big imo. It's almost become an "older woman" look. It even makes young women look older. I prefer a smaller mouth look. But I love everything else.


----------



## Lien

catelet said:


> She looks great--beautiful woman, but honestly I dislike too much lip filler--it makes the mouth look too big imo. It's almost become an "older woman" look. It even makes young women look older. I prefer a smaller mouth look. But I love everything else.



Actually, you're right about the lips.


----------



## K Couture

Lien said:


> Actually, you're right about the lips.



I think the upper lips is fine, albeit injected unevenly. I feel she had too much in the lower lip


----------



## catelet

I should add that on the other hand @MissOrange 's lips are full, but they always look gorgeous. I don't think she has fillers that I recall, but if she does, it looks perfect. Maybe when the other lady's lip filler subsides somewhat, they'll look great. I probably need something myself, starting with a lip lift --it's on my list of "lifts" I need lol (i.e. facelift, lip lift, etc.). Sigh--the joys of aging!


----------



## K Couture

catelet said:


> I should add that on the other hand @MissOrange 's lips are full, but they always look gorgeous. I don't think she has fillers that I recall, but if she does, it looks perfect. Maybe when the other lady's lip filler subsides somewhat, they'll look great. I probably need something myself, starting with a lip lift --it's on my list of "lifts" I need lol (i.e. facelift, lip lift, etc.). Sigh--the joys of aging!


I definitely need a lip lift. A friend of mine did it in the US but she still had post op scarring 7 months later -_-. I wonder if its because of the surgeon's skill or if thats just a side effect of the procedure. -_-


----------



## Lien

K Couture said:


> I definitely need a lip lift. A friend of mine did it in the US but she still had post op scarring 7 months later -_-. I wonder if its because of the surgeon's skill or if thats just a side effect of the procedure. -_-



That's what I am afraid of too, trading one problem for another.


----------



## catelet

Lien said:


> That's what I am afraid of too, trading one problem for another.


Same....


----------



## K Couture

Lien said:


> That's what I am afraid of too, trading one problem for another.


Yeah see for me if the scarring is the same as alar reduction im fine with it. It can be easily covered with make up. But if it turns into a keloid -_-


----------



## Otto8

K Couture said:


> Yeah see for me if the scarring is the same as alar reduction im fine with it. It can be easily covered with make up. But if it turns into a keloid -_-



Ditto


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> I should add that on the other hand @MissOrange 's lips are full, but they always look gorgeous. I don't think she has fillers that I recall, but if she does, it looks perfect. Maybe when the other lady's lip filler subsides somewhat, they'll look great. I probably need something myself, starting with a lip lift --it's on my list of "lifts" I need lol (i.e. facelift, lip lift, etc.). Sigh--the joys of aging!


Hi @catelet, Miss Mills did such an incredible job on my bullhorn lip lift in Jan 2017. The remaining mole on my philtrum has stayed in position (5 years and counting) where she left it just by the incision and my upper lip remains everted giving me a permanent full upper lip! I tried restylane upper lip fillers in my 40s but it kept dissolving in 3 months so I gave up. The £2,450 bullhorn lip lift is one of the best ops I have ever had as it is like a 2 for 1, giving me a youthful shortened philtrum and a full everted lip never needing fillers ever again! I needed one set of steroid injection to the scar at my 1 year review and that flattened the scar. I think in asians, steroid injections are much better than laser to reduce scars. It is such a shame she gave up private work when she could claim to be the Queen of bullhorn lip lifts!

I won’t be getting more CO2 laser to my periareolar scar. The test area got pigmented which I hear happens when Asians get CO2 laser. I have instead treated with 40 mg/ml kenalog steroid injections and it has helped flatten and minimise the scar.


----------



## Summer78888

Hi all I have been reading all of your chat with interest.  I'm looking to get the VR facelift in York at the copper gate clinic.  I read that miss orange you had the same procedure.  How did you find it after some months have passed?  Would you recommend it?  Thanks for your help


----------



## MissOrange

Summer78888 said:


> Hi all I have been reading all of your chat with interest.  I'm looking to get the VR facelift in York at the copper gate clinic.  I read that miss orange you had the same procedure.  How did you find it after some months have passed?  Would you recommend it?  Thanks for your help


Hi @Summer78888, I am getting a VR revision in 3 weeks time 6.5 months post. The VR FL did help reduce my loose skin and I am getting a tweakment as I want to look as good now as I did between months 1-3 post VR. Come back and check my thread in 3 weeks time for the latest update.


----------



## MissOrange

For ladies interested in breast fat transfer post explant or due to tubular defects, I am now 1 year and 5 months post my one time breast FT for £5,600 by David Floyd of London, UK and am so pleased with the long lasting results. These photos are 2 years apart. The one on the left is today at 95.2 lbs and the one on the right was taken when I was in Korea at 96 lbs 2 years ago taking my selfie for a consult with Fresh clinic about breast fat transfer. I hated my deformed asymmetrical breasts with tubular defect after periareolar mastopexy. Who could have dreamed that I would have such pretty shaped breasts with one round of breast fat transfer by Cambridge graduate David Floyd! There is a reason top plastic surgeons go to Oxford or Cambridge med school! My breast journey is now finished. No more implants, no more explants, no more implant ruptures or leaks, and no more looking at deformities. Now if only I could be happy about my face. I wish I had a bigger nose and tighter face. lol.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Summer78888, I am getting a VR revision in 3 weeks time 6.5 months post. The VR FL did help reduce my loose skin and I am getting a tweakment as I want to look as good now as I did between months 1-3 post VR. Come back and check my thread in 3 weeks time for the latest update.



I am sure you will.  You already look so good, in any case.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> For ladies interested in breast fat transfer post explant or due to tubular defects, I am now 1 year and 5 months post my one time breast FT for £5,600 by David Floyd of London, UK and am so pleased with the long lasting results. These photos are 2 years apart. The one on the left is today at 95.2 lbs and the one on the right was taken when I was in Korea at 96 lbs 2 years ago taking my selfie for a consult with Fresh clinic about breast fat transfer. I hated my deformed asymmetrical breasts with tubular defect after periareolar mastopexy. Who could have dreamed that I would have such pretty shaped breasts with one round of breast fat transfer by Cambridge graduate David Floyd! There is a reason top plastic surgeons go to Oxford or Cambridge med school! My breast journey is now finished. No more implants, no more explants, no more implant ruptures or leaks, and no more looking at deformities. Now if only I could be happy about my face. I wish I had a bigger nose and tighter face. lol.
> 
> View attachment 5293342



@MissOrange , I can't wait to see your newly revised VR in 3 months' time.  Re your nose, I think it is PERFECT!  Pls don't do anything else to it.  I personally think sometimes us Asians go a bit overboard with a nose job, no disrespect to you.  A slightly smaller nose suits an Asian face much better.  I'd KILL to have your nose.  Heck, I'd kill to have your face! 

So happy for you that your breast journey is now complete.  I need a 2nd fat transfer, though dunno yet who to go to, what with all these travel restrictions.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , I can't wait to see your newly revised VR in 3 months' time.  Re your nose, I think it is PERFECT!  Pls don't do anything else to it.  I personally think sometimes us Asians go a bit overboard with a nose job, no disrespect to you.  A slightly smaller nose suits an Asian face much better.  I'd KILL to have your nose.  Heck, I'd kill to have your face!
> 
> So happy for you that your breast journey is now complete.  I need a 2nd fat transfer, though dunno yet who to go to, what with all these travel restrictions.


Hi @Lien, the UK has removed the requirements of any predeparture covid test or 2 day arrival test. They are treating omicron covid like seasonal flu now. I would only recommend David Floyd for breast fat transfer as he uses the traditional lipo technique for harvest so the breasts are not filled with tumescent fluid mix and his anaesthetist is the best at GA, with no pain or nausea. And the private hospital stay was so luxurious! I loved being waited on by private nurses with only 2 patients per nurse and the food was delicious!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien, the UK has removed the requirements of any predeparture covid test or 2 day arrival test. They are treating omicron covid like seasonal flu now. I would only recommend David Floyd for breast fat transfer as he uses the traditional lipo technique for harvest so the breasts are not filled with tumescent fluid mix and his anaesthetist is the best at GA, with no pain or nausea. And the private hospital stay was so luxurious! I loved being waited on by private nurses with only 2 patients per nurse and the food was delicious!



That's really great to know.  All great infor.

I shall enquire!!

Thank you.


----------



## HopefulGB

Wow!! Ladies Dr.Dongman has really gotten my attention!!! Thanks for sharing @MissOrange

Ladies! My beauty plan is to have my facelift and forehead lift with  Dr Dongman Park and then have my lip lift with Dr Ben Talei of California. If anyone knows of a great surgeon for a forehead lift please share.


----------



## Summer78888

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Summer78888, I am getting a VR revision in 3 weeks time 6.5 months post. The VR FL did help reduce my loose skin and I am getting a tweakment as I want to look as good now as I did between months 1-3 post VR. Come back and check my thread in 3 weeks time for the latest update.


Thank you I do hope it goes well for you.  As you are needing a tweak would you still recommend them?  Thanks


----------



## Lien

HopefulGB said:


> Wow!! Ladies Dr.Dongman has really gotten my attention!!! Thanks for sharing @MissOrange
> 
> Ladies! My beauty plan is to have my facelift and forehead lift with  Dr Dongman Park and then have my lip lift with Dr Ben Talei of California. If anyone knows of a great surgeon for a forehead lift please share.



I've been following Dr Talei and even had an online consult with him.  I don't think he lifts enough of the upper lip for the difference to be visible.  At least, that seems to be the case as of late.


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange ,  now that your surgery is forthcoming, what are you eating or doing to prepare for it, to aid healing? 

Thank you so much!


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange ,  now that your surgery is forthcoming, what are you eating or doing to prepare for it, to aid healing?
> 
> Thank you so much!


Hi @Otto8 I am not eating anything different. I know Bray has his patients on a specific pre facelift diet, but I don’t think food will affect surgery. I have been busy making collages of my 6 months face vs day 0 and a front view of month 1 vs month 6 (last photo eyes hidden as I look awful!). The face has clearly fallen so I definitely do need this revision in 18 days time. The good news is the clinic now includes a lipoelastic head compression garment! I bought a new ebay china one too which arrived yesterday so I am all sorted. Will take steroids in the first week, take a sleeping pill and paracetamol before the surgery and will bring stronger painkillers for the night in the hotel.

My expectation is the revision should last at least 4 months to cover me for my daughter’s wedding and family wedding photos and then in future I need to research surgeons who do smasectomy as in my opinion, longevity may be assured with the smas muscle layer cut, trimmed and resewn together. I looked at the IG video of Dr Park’s lady over a year out and she has heaviness in the cheeks with nasolabials. I am still in the hunt for a surgeon who does smasectomy! lol


----------



## MissOrange

The good thing about moles is that they are like surgical markers. You can use them to assess before and after facelifts.


----------



## Summer78888

Thank you so much for the pictures.  I have the same problem I was hoping this surgery will fix so now I will look at other options.  So a SMAS lift looks like it's the better option.  Im going to research too.


----------



## MissOrange

My tip is to always check video afters. Here is an example of how different a patient can look in a still which can be filtered or edited vs a video image. In the video image the patient's cheeks are still heavy with deep nasolabials at over a year post FL but in the still photo her after result looks fab with no lines.


----------



## MissOrange

Today is a good face day at a bmi of 17.9 (height 5’1” and weight 43 kgs). If I look like this in 17 days I may be refused a revision which would save me the second of my 3 lifetime facelift lives, but how can I maintain an unrealistic weight of 94.6 lbs? My theory is when underweight, the face gets smaller and tighter. For example Lily Collins is 32 years old, very skinny with a bmi of 18 (5’5” and 50 kgs) and has a tight line free face. My arms look like hers at the moment. The alternative option is to gain a healthy 5 lbs and get a revision.


----------



## Otto8

The thing about BMI is that I feel as if I am fat, even with a BMI of 18. 

I have a flabby stomach. True, I look thin in jeans, but I know I am broader in the trunk and torso and maybe flabbier on the arms. I am not old or wrinkled. It's just that the BMI does not quite add up for me. 

Make a choice not based on BMI, a choice that excludes yoyo dieting, a definite choice to make sure the facelift results are  consistent and lasts,  regardless of what we eat.  I could not imagine eschewing the once-in-a-while wine or the party food simply because my facelift hinges on that.  I don't mean over indulging, but hey, we have worked hard to become who we are;  we deserve to enjoy life's simple wants.


----------



## catelet

@MissOrange I don't recall now, but did you say once you had fat injected into your lower lip? Mine gets more deflated the older I get.  I'm wondering what I should look into for that--yours looks so good.


----------



## MissOrange

catelet said:


> @MissOrange I don't recall now, but did you say once you had fat injected into your lower lip? Mine gets more deflated the older I get.  I'm wondering what I should look into for that--yours looks so good.


Hi @catelet, no fat in my lips. I have been applying carmex stick lip balm on my lips every day for years. Maybe there is something in carmex?


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> The thing about BMI is that I feel as if I am fat, even with a BMI of 18.
> 
> I have a flabby stomach. True, I look thin in jeans, but I know I am broader in the trunk and torso and maybe flabbier on the arms. I am not old or wrinkled. It's just that the BMI does not quite add up for me.
> 
> Make a choice not based on BMI, a choice that excludes yoyo dieting, a definite choice to make sure the facelift results are  consistent and lasts,  regardless of what we eat.  I could not imagine eschewing the once-in-a-while wine or the party food simply because my facelift hinges on that.  I don't mean over indulging, but hey, we have worked hard to become who we are;  we deserve to enjoy life's simple wants.


Wow what a coincidence we have the same bmi! I had tummy lipo in the past twice so like you have loose tummy skin that forms tummy rolls when I sit down but only noticeable in a bikini. When I stand up the tummy smooths out. No way would I do a TT. So many Brit ladies I have come across in their 50s have had tummy tucks as part of a mummy makeover.

I am sorry you have flabby arms and a broad torso. I feel I look like a lollipop head or a potato with toothpick limbs lol. I have had both arms and thigh lipos. I did consider an arm lift when I noticed batwings but it seems to have tightened after lipo by doing daily housework. You could look into an arm lift perhaps?

I am super stressed and anxious of the upcoming revision in 16 days which puts my metabolism in overdrive, so no matter what I eat, I lose weight. I guess I am lucky in that respect. My OH gains weight when stressed. I guess it is in the genes. When I am anxious I become a bit manic, spring house cleaning or decluttering etc. to distract myself which then burns off more calories and toss and turn in bed with worry each night as the countdown commences.

You must be tall to look thin in jeans! I still look short with short legs. lol.

I have been unlucky with revisions. Rib rhino revision at 6 weeks left me with uneven nostrils. I was too anxious to go back a year later to fix it. My periareolar mastopexy revision at 6 months left me with one tubular much smaller breast. I praise David Floyd for fixing this with breast FT. So you see the fear of what a FL revision will bring when the surgeon warns me of wider scars is immense.


----------



## Otto8

No no ,no tummy tucks for me.  I don't need one.  Fat loves to gather at my waist and back.   So I am looking at vaser or lipo.

Oh, I wish you well for the FL.   Sending lots of best results wishes your way.  Your thread has helped me immensely as I begin my journey.  And I will go back and read again and again and revise my notes.


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange ,  I understand you recommend traditional lipo.  

What was the downtime for you? Also, what was the scarring like? 

Why is this better than vaser?   

Thank you so much.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange ,  I understand you recommend traditional lipo.
> 
> What was the downtime for you? Also, what was the scarring like?
> 
> Why is this better than vaser?
> 
> Thank you so much.


I had no scarring from traditional lipo port holes as I removed the sutures once the incisions healed and for me that was 3 days. I then applied pressure dressing over the incisions so no scars. With traditional lipo recovery and results are faster than vaser as with vaser huge quantities of tumescent fluid are poured into the lipo area and after lipo, the fluid is left behind to be reabsorbed naturally and this takes months, meanwhile the area looks swollen, hard and like it never got liposuctioned. I like instant results and cannot wait several months. I had both traditional and vaser tummy lipo and with traditional saw a 6 pack when I awoke vs with vaser saw a swollen hard tummy for months.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I am researching the return of my downward turned mouth corners which occur in the evening when I am tired and make me look sad. Maybe because I feel sad and tired these days. They disappeared with the VR facelift for 3-4 months but are back again after the smas dropped. I found a video on levator exercises. I also discovered botox injected in the depressor anguli oris can also correct this and even corner lip lift surgery. I shall try the exercises for now. Apparently smiling a lot helps but I have nothing to be happy about these days so not sure when I last smiled? The DAO muscle is responsible for looking sad and pulling the mouth corners down!


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> I had no scarring from traditional lipo port holes as I removed the sutures once the incisions healed and for me that was 3 days. I then applied pressure dressing over the incisions so no scars. With traditional lipo recovery and results are faster than vaser as with vaser huge quantities of tumescent fluid are poured into the lipo area and after lipo, the fluid is left behind to be reabsorbed naturally and this takes months, meanwhile the area looks swollen, hard and like it never got liposuctioned. I like instant results and cannot wait several months. I had both traditional and vaser tummy lipo and with traditional saw a 6 pack when I awoke vs with vaser saw a swollen hard tummy for months.



I second this. I had some cheek fat unevenness where my right side has more facial fat than the other due to a botched fg years ago. I used vaser to the first time to get rid of it but it not only had no results it also left internal scar tissue behind. Took 8 months of triam and kenacort injections to dissolve the lumpy scar tissue. Then the next time I asked the surgeon to remove it via traditional lipo and the problem was solved immediatedly.


----------



## chardonnaylane

@MissOrange I have the exact same downturned mouth problem even though I had the corner lift where DAO was cut! It looked good the first 3 years but then it felt as if it was starting to fall again. I questioned if I was being paranoid but just visited a surgeon who said my dao muscle was not only alive it was strong as hell He also said that the best way to avoid this is to do botox BEFORE the corner lift to precent it from growing back with full force. So now I'm in the market for a new corner lift and this time I'll add botox before and after to keep everything in check and hopefully have a longer lasting result. Do you know any good corner lip lift docs in Seoul? I'm not very keen on going back to AONE and hope to find some options this time


----------



## MissOrange

chardonnaylane said:


> @MissOrange I have the exact same downturned mouth problem even though I had the corner lift where DAO was cut! It looked good the first 3 years but then it felt as if it was starting to fall again. I questioned if I was being paranoid but just visited a surgeon who said my dao muscle was not only alive it was strong as hell He also said that the best way to avoid this is to do botox BEFORE the corner lift to precent it from growing back with full force. So now I'm in the market for a new corner lift and this time I'll add botox before and after to keep everything in check and hopefully have a longer lasting result. Do you know any good corner lip lift docs in Seoul? I'm not very keen on going back to AONE and hope to find some options this time


Have you looked at Deesse plastic surgery clinic? http://en.deesse.co.kr/sub04/sub02.php


----------



## chardonnaylane

I have not but I will look them up! Thank you  I've also done tons of mouth exercises but this only helps a little bit  do you know if there is any specific surgeon in Deessee who does lips? I like their pictures and the lifts don't look crazy.


----------



## Otto8

How long would you say would need to take time off work, if you have lipo ?  I think it is lipo for me.  

@MissOrange, don't be sad.  It sees easy to say, but truly, it will pass.


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday evening I was dreading the family dinner out in fear of a sagging tired sad face but something happened! I put on a joker smile while driving for 30 minutes straight without releasing the wide tooth show smile earlier in the day. Here are my selfies in different evening lights. Wow strengthening the levator anguli oris (lao) lip corner muscle seems to be working in combo with facelift makeup. I again forced a wide smile on the 20 minute drive to dinner. Rehab advice is to smile frequently to strengthen the lao.

Could this be the reason why I had good and bad face days? Some days my lao muscle was weak or my dao muscle too strong? Weight loss or gain makes no difference so maybe it was the muscle after all as I rarely smile! I shall continue to do my joker smile whenever I drive over the next 14 days to make sure my good face day yesterday was not random.


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange, I don't have anything useful to contribute.  Just want to send you some virtual hugs.


----------



## MissOrange

Well yesterday and today were bad sag face days. Not sure what happened but maybe drinking 2 glasses of champagne dehydrated the face and the arctic cold UK weather has shrunk my facial fat graft? Bad sag face days during the daytime is scary! Looks like I am getting a revision in 13 days time. The smiling exercises are having no effect now. Not going to any restaurants until after the revision as I have to remove my mask to eat. I was totally embarrassed to eat lunch with my daughter and future son-in-law yesterday as my face looked super saggy! Even worse, he was seated across from me and my exposed face! lol. I kept thinking why are their youthful faces not sagging? lol.  Thank goodness we have to wear masks out due to omicron. I can hide my face for 13 more days. Food deliveries from now on.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> How long would you say would need to take time off work, if you have lipo ?  I think it is lipo for me.
> 
> @MissOrange, don't be sad.  It sees easy to say, but truly, it will pass.


Hi @Otto8 I missed this. I would say take 2 weeks off only because the soreness and pain from lower body lipo hits once the GA drugs wear off and you end up feeling like you got beaten up all over and can’t sleep or walk due to the muscle stiffness and pain.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Otto8 I missed this. I would say take 2 weeks off only because the soreness and pain from lower body lipo hits once the GA drugs wear off and you end up feeling like you got beaten up all over and can’t sleep or walk due to the muscle stiffness and pain.



Thank you so much.


----------



## Summer78888

I had lypo a few weeks ago and had something called jplazma.  It's a special form of lypo that is supposed to tighten skin after fat removal.  It's only been 4 weeks and I need to wait 3 months to see the final result but it's already not noticeable that I've had surgery.  I still have tightness and sore parts though


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange , how is it that the whites of your eyes are so white?   Do you avoid certain foods?  

Thank you for your advice.


----------



## Otto8

Summer78888 said:


> I had lypo a few weeks ago and had something called jplazma.  It's a special form of lypo that is supposed to tighten skin after fat removal.  It's only been 4 weeks and I need to wait 3 months to see the final result but it's already not noticeable that I've had surgery.  I still have tightness and sore parts though



I hope you see results soon.  This thread has been so useful.  I am avoiding Vaser Lipo and will use only Lipo.


----------



## glowup2021

@MissOrange what do you think of this? It's a 41 year old that had a few surgeries and easily looks 15 years younger... or more... have you heard of this surgeon before?


----------



## sanarae

You look superbly beautiful, @MissOrange , and I dearly hope your revision goes smoothly!
Quick note - as for home microcurrent devices, they may definitely help the downturned smile which you mentioned bothered you (your lips are perfectly shaped  imo but I get that sometimes we all have issues which nag at us). Also brilliant for lifting saggy jowl, cheek (which lifts the jowl too), brow. It’s a great investment—I snagged mine at Nordstrom with a bonus ELE (targeted smaller attachment) when there was a sale on. My Korean mother is a lady of a certain age (think born in the 40s) and during the pandemic she’s been using hers. She’s blessed with drama actress skin (went to drama school actually…) but her major gripe are her nasolabial folds and it helped immensely. I can see the difference in my face looking tighter but not weirdly plasticy when I use mine (my V-line is tbh pretty tight, but I’ve started noticing lower cheek sag). I honestly got it for my brows cos I wanted a brow lift, but stay tuned. Caveats: microcurrent may interfere with Botox or fillers so space several weeks before resuming. 2. So my mom did the overplucking brow thing and they were finally growing back with revitalash. I can’t explain this but once she started doing brow lifts with the microcurrent all her new brow growth fell out. achtung baby.
There’s an app on your phone w/ a timer to guide you through the regions you want to work on, the booklets are honestly very explanatory, and lots of info on tips and tricks from users are available online. I haven’t done mine (my ex bf who works in medicine calls it my face electrocution or face ironing. I prefer faradisation) in ages since I got quite boringly ill, not Covid, before the holidays and I’m trying to get my strength back. I definitely would say that with research, it’s worth the investment. (The ELE attachment has a direction booklet on elevating one’s smile from downturned to happy btw!)

a question—I’m also naturally on the slender side, 46kg/102lb, and although I prefer Korean surgeons for their aesthetics on ptosis correction (I’m Eurasian and naturally have wide eyes with the kind of Jun ji hyun double minilid you got, but the upper lid sulcus has got hollowed and my eye fold isn’t as cutely mini as before) the prevalent aesthetic seems to be to fill hollow upper lids with fat. I’m a little worried of having a dent where the fat is extracted, and also, of the fat migrating down, whereas US surgeons who fill upper lids with HA eg Belotero, restalyne have the results last years (there’s a peculiar phenomenon where HA in the upper lid lasts longer than any other mobile parts of the face) and if something goes wrong it can be dissolved. However, I’m not totally enamored of any US/EU surgeons’ aesthetics for restoring Asian/Eurasian double lids so it’s a double-edged blade (I prefer the Korean approach of intense customization; duplicating old photos or ppl who bring in celeb photos etc and the results are carbon copies). Like, I remember Jun Ji Hyun and other actresses having a double chin for a while as their fat transfers to other parts of the face migrated downward even though their faces and bodies were slim and contoured—I’ve seen this IRL too.

anyhow I hope this finds you well and again, best of luck with the revision and life In general! Congrats on your daughter’s wedding too! You’re stunning, please don’t worry about having to take off your mask! In any case your eyes mesmerize  also, I think you look awesome as a blonde. I lost a heap of hair after my father passed away earlier this year and I was so embarrassed - I’m finally booking a salon appt in a couple of weeks and hoping they won’t judge me. Im going to chance a balayage (I’m brunette and I’d like lighter streaks. Idk if it will look stupid with my newly thin hair tho). I wish I inherited thick Asian hair so I could get a digital perm but alas, no dice  you’re lucky!


----------



## sanarae

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange , how is it that the whites of your eyes are so white?   Do you avoid certain foods?
> 
> Thank you for your advice.


I can’t speak for @MissOrange, but I use the Japanese Rohto Lycee Contact drops and whilst they don’t have the whitening ingredient in Visine that may cause irritation to the eye, they hydrate and whiten masterfully! Plus they come in an adorable pink triangle dropper so you only ever need one drop, & since I sometimes wear circle lenses*, they’re the only eyedrop which make me forget I’m wearing those at all! Unfortunately since the covid crisis the prices have tripled so I’m hoarding my stash. (*i recommend Acuvue Define range for the best comfort and safety, but I also sometimes use O lens Scandi for the color variation. It’s fun to have subtly natural-looking colored eyes! I love the grey (more like subtle green on my brown eyes) and I have a packet of aqua I’ve not opened yet. Acuvue are more enlarging, sanitary and very beautiful imo. Radiant Charm (black limbal) is great for photos/conference calls and Radiant Sweet (brown limbal) is very K-drama but natural irl. They’ve got other colors too if one prefers a lighter eye. Iirc @MissOrange wears freshlook sometimes, blue eyes are so fun!


----------



## MissOrange

glowup2021 said:


> @MissOrange what do you think of this? It's a 41 year old that had a few surgeries and easily looks 15 years younger... or more... have you heard of this surgeon before?


Yes I have heard of Amir Karam in California but he is way too expensive for my budget. He is on the right track for facial rejuvenation with facial fat transfer, lip lift, upper bleph and a vertical facelift.


----------



## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> You look superbly beautiful, @MissOrange , and I dearly hope your revision goes smoothly!
> Quick note - as for home microcurrent devices, they may definitely help the downturned smile which you mentioned bothered you (your lips are perfectly shaped  imo but I get that sometimes we all have issues which nag at us). Also brilliant for lifting saggy jowl, cheek (which lifts the jowl too), brow. It’s a great investment—I snagged mine at Nordstrom with a bonus ELE (targeted smaller attachment) when there was a sale on. My Korean mother is a lady of a certain age (think born in the 40s) and during the pandemic she’s been using hers. She’s blessed with drama actress skin (went to drama school actually…) but her major gripe are her nasolabial folds and it helped immensely. I can see the difference in my face looking tighter but not weirdly plasticy when I use mine (my V-line is tbh pretty tight, but I’ve started noticing lower cheek sag). I honestly got it for my brows cos I wanted a brow lift, but stay tuned. Caveats: microcurrent may interfere with Botox or fillers so space several weeks before resuming. 2. So my mom did the overplucking brow thing and they were finally growing back with revitalash. I can’t explain this but once she started doing brow lifts with the microcurrent all her new brow growth fell out. achtung baby.
> There’s an app on your phone w/ a timer to guide you through the regions you want to work on, the booklets are honestly very explanatory, and lots of info on tips and tricks from users are available online. I haven’t done mine (my ex bf who works in medicine calls it my face electrocution or face ironing. I prefer faradisation) in ages since I got quite boringly ill, not Covid, before the holidays and I’m trying to get my strength back. I definitely would say that with research, it’s worth the investment. (The ELE attachment has a direction booklet on elevating one’s smile from downturned to happy btw!)
> 
> a question—I’m also naturally on the slender side, 46kg/102lb, and although I prefer Korean surgeons for their aesthetics on ptosis correction (I’m Eurasian and naturally have wide eyes with the kind of Jun ji hyun double minilid you got, but the upper lid sulcus has got hollowed and my eye fold isn’t as cutely mini as before) the prevalent aesthetic seems to be to fill hollow upper lids with fat. I’m a little worried of having a dent where the fat is extracted, and also, of the fat migrating down, whereas US surgeons who fill upper lids with HA eg Belotero, restalyne have the results last years (there’s a peculiar phenomenon where HA in the upper lid lasts longer than any other mobile parts of the face) and if something goes wrong it can be dissolved. However, I’m not totally enamored of any US/EU surgeons’ aesthetics for restoring Asian/Eurasian double lids so it’s a double-edged blade (I prefer the Korean approach of intense customization; duplicating old photos or ppl who bring in celeb photos etc and the results are carbon copies). Like, I remember Jun Ji Hyun and other actresses having a double chin for a while as their fat transfers to other parts of the face migrated downward even though their faces and bodies were slim and contoured—I’ve seen this IRL too.
> 
> anyhow I hope this finds you well and again, best of luck with the revision and life In general! Congrats on your daughter’s wedding too! You’re stunning, please don’t worry about having to take off your mask! In any case your eyes mesmerize  also, I think you look awesome as a blonde. I lost a heap of hair after my father passed away earlier this year and I was so embarrassed - I’m finally booking a salon appt in a couple of weeks and hoping they won’t judge me. Im going to chance a balayage (I’m brunette and I’d like lighter streaks. Idk if it will look stupid with my newly thin hair tho). I wish I inherited thick Asian hair so I could get a digital perm but alas, no dice  you’re lucky!


Thank you @sanarae. Very informative. Yes it makes sense that microcurrents stimulating the LAO to contract and strengthen so it lifts the lip corners may indeed work! I need to research how to find one in the UK. Is it the Nuface one you use?

Go for upper lid fat graft with Dr Seo in Korea who did mine. With fillers one has to keep topping up. My lid fat graft cannot migrate anywhere as it sits above the eye socket. Just remember to maintain a fat and protein diet for 4 months for the fat to stick. I wish I had known earlier. It would have saved me a few of those facial fat graft trips to Korea!


----------



## MissOrange

Today I was astounded that it was a good face day! Yesterday at a weight of 93.2 lbs, I was panicking as my face was super saggy and empty in the lower face. I should have taken a selfie but couldn’t bear to look at my face. I thought right I need to gain weight asap. I ate a mcdonalds egg mcmuffin for breakfast, bulgogi dosirak for lunch and then again for dinner. I am trying to work out what worked to give me a good face today at a weight of 94.4 lbs. I put the space heater on all night last night for the first time as it has been freezing temperatures in the UK and was able to sleep 8.5 hours instead of wake up freezing to death and tossing and turning trying to get back to sleep. I then googled and bulgogi has 22 grams of fat. My carb and protein diet had been extremely low in fat! This means I need to ensure I eat at least 20% of my calories in fat or at least 20g of fat a day. This will help feed my shrunken fat cells. No wonder Koreans look good! I need to eat Korean food daily or at least every other day. I drank a glass of water before the selfies. My face moles look like those connect the dot drawings I did as a child! lol. So the conclusion Amir Karam reached that one needs fat graft with a vertical facelift is correct as the facelift does not address the nasolabials and marionette lines but the fat graft does by replacing the lost facial fat volume that happens with either weight loss or menopause/ageing. Today I chose KFC as the fries have 14g of fat and zero cholesterol and each chicken piece has 10g of fat. Tomorrow I can choose Korean japchae noodles which has 9.5g of fat. Today is a happy day as no way do I look 55.6.

1. Uninterrupted sleep for at least 8 hours to rest the face muscles.
2. Eat at least 20g of fat a day to feed the fat graft.
3. Keep your home warm, especially at night. Freezing temps shrink the fat cells. Wear a hood and scarf out to protect the face in extreme cold weather.
4. Always drink a glass of water before taking selfies.
5. Continue with daily joker smiling exercises to strengthen the LAO muscle.
6. Never let my weight drop below 94 lbs.


----------



## Teina

Hormones play a huge role in the look of your face. I use compounded estriol cream on my skin to keep it from sagging. It doesn't affect my internal hormone levels. Just putting that out there. You should look it up, the skin on my face is tightened and glowy because of the cream. Another thing that helped my skin was diluted radiesse. It's amazing, research it if you get the time.


----------



## Otto8

Teina said:


> Hormones play a huge role in the look of your face. I use compounded estriol cream on my skin to keep it from sagging. It doesn't affect my internal hormone levels. Just putting that out there. You should look it up, the skin on my face is tightened and glowy because of the cream. Another thing that helped my skin was diluted radiesse. It's amazing, research it if you get the time.



Hormone cream gave me acne.   

I think profhilo has help a lot in skin texture and it is the same concept as diluted radiesse.


----------



## sanarae

> @sanarae. Very informative. Yes it makes sense that microcurrents stimulating the LAO to contract and strengthen so it lifts the lip corners may indeed work! I need to research how to find one in the UK. Is it the Nuface one you use?
> 
> Go for upper lid fat graft with Dr Seo in Korea who did mine. With fillers one has to keep topping up. My lid fat graft cannot migrate anywhere as it sits above the eye socket. Just remember to maintain a fat and protein diet for 4 months for the fat to stick. I wish I had known earlier. It would have saved me a few of those facial fat graft trips to Korea!



-Yes, it’s the NuFace. There’s another called Ziip but I don’t know much about how it works in practical usage - the ergonomics look awkward to fit into the crevices. I am not sure how if it would affect fat grafts so you could stick to areas where that’s not a problem (lip corners, neck - there was recent approval for this as long as one avoids the centre line of the thyroid), cheeks /jaw. Harrods and SpaceNK sell it I think.
- Maintaining a fat and protein diet to keep the fat graft in place - thanks for the tip!!! easy for me lol. Salmon and avocado are great for anti-aging and high in good fats (omega-3 & the beneficial sort of omega-6 but I’m sure w your expertise you know that) - my diet is fairly high fat/protein anyways unless I’m invited to dinner out (or have a bad day and get a tub of ice cream all to myself…shh) as I had eczema as a child and learnt there are tons of common foods which set it off even now :/ we all need our KFC and bulgogi every now and then so great job. You’re really slim so I can imagine it might be a struggle to keep the right ratio! Do you drink alcohol socially etc?  drinking socially is a challenge for me; I like my drinks but I know it’s not healthy—there are so many models who allegedly quit for their beauty and that’s kind of my new year’s resolution.
  i might also suggest, you know how Koreans love their natural collagen off of bones and parts of meat only certain cultures eat. I really don’t know if this is folk wisdom or has actual factual merit but perhaps you might try incorporating that into your diet too? Since collagen tablets/supplements have become popular nowadays but when you check it’s either horrid-tasting powders, or 6 pills a day with a warning about bovine collagen containing sulfites. (BioSil is a collagen precursor I used to take; it comes in a dropper & you can add the liquid to an empty gelatin capsule - they’re sold at Amazon - it’s supposedly great for hair and plumping skin. All I know is I took it for a month when I was very down and eating an ill-advised diet, and my eyelashes became terrifyingly long nevertheless. Jen Atkin, hairdresser to the Kardashians (yeah whatever you think of them, she does do a lot of stars) used to recommend BioSil to all her clients until she started her own hair-care line.)
-Btw I talked w a rep from Dr Seo’s clinic online when travel was more open a few months ago, and they seemed to get what I was aiming for (i had some pics of younger me and reference for the kind of eye I want)plus she was extremely cordial. I admit I’m really scared about someone screwing up my eye shape. I hope I can consult w him when the world situation has calmed down! it’s like my nose, I’m worried of a bad result since there are so many fail revision rhinoplasties. Your nose is like my dream nose! Not comically petite but slim and straight and with an elegant tip! I don’t know why you want it bigger, it’s wonderful!
- I’d been meaning to ask, IIRC you had a fat graft to the forehead (?) - I can’t recall which clinic - it has truly made a difference… You have no lines! astounded at such a small thing which isn’t common in the West can make one look so youthful. I finally get why ppl in Korea kept asking if My forehead was silicone (???? Now it’s old and I’m getting lines which are such an age indicator, ugh) Did you ever have Botox/filler in your forehead before then or was the fat graft a proposal you encountered in Korea? I’m waiting to have anything done since I have an ill member of my Korean family and of course that takes precedence, plus omicron is scuffling everything everywhere (I’m scared to go to an orthodontist even though my front teeth are starting to gap. I had braces as a child but they don’t last like veneers). From where was the fat extracted if it’s ok to ask?
-That is such a pretty selfie btw! I noticed you wear a lot of darker lip colors which flatter you and accentuate your lip shape (I’m jealous lol) but I think nudes or light pinks and a little shimmer on the center of your pout would also look very lovely with your coloring.  

i know this can be an intensely personal Q so if you just want to gloss over it or ‘no comment’ I totally get it, or if you’re tired of talking about it? But what started your surgery/cosmetic procedure journey? As I recall you began later in life with a DES surgery? The amount of research you do and the manner in which you analyse your face and presentation is inspirational. 

best wishes! I hope you have something lovely to eat today. I do remember as you mentioned eg Dominic Bray places his patients on a low salicylic (this is not the word) diet before facelift surgery, and some of US surgeons mandate avoiding salt for eg rhinoplasty as swelling can make it more difficult to see nuances in the cartilage structure. Are you on any dietary restrictions besides the usual supplement ones, or taking something like arnica in preparation? Forgive me if you mentioned it earlier. Perhaps you could start making miguk (seaweed soup) if you don’t already? The seaweed is full of nutrients (why it’s traditional after giving birth) AND it’s a sneaky way to add a rational amount of fatty meats (your choice, chicken, beef, etc) in whilst feeling healthy and satisfied. I started making it for myself and I’m no cook so it’s not like my grandma’s, but i was amazed at how quick/easy it is to make (rehydrating seaweed is like dump it in a bowl and forget about it) if you have stock on hand or buy it from a Korean grocers. (since making bone/sagwol broth takes foreverrrr although you do get the nutrients from the marrow. K grocers sell packaged sagwol broth tho)
take care! You must be so excited!


----------



## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> -Yes, it’s the NuFace. There’s another called Ziip but I don’t know much about how it works in practical usage - the ergonomics look awkward to fit into the crevices. I am not sure how if it would affect fat grafts so you could stick to areas where that’s not a problem (lip corners, neck - there was recent approval for this as long as one avoids the centre line of the thyroid), cheeks /jaw. Harrods and SpaceNK sell it I think.
> - Maintaining a fat and protein diet to keep the fat graft in place - thanks for the tip!!! easy for me lol. Salmon and avocado are great for anti-aging and high in good fats (omega-3 & the beneficial sort of omega-6 but I’m sure w your expertise you know that) - my diet is fairly high fat/protein anyways unless I’m invited to dinner out (or have a bad day and get a tub of ice cream all to myself…shh) as I had eczema as a child and learnt there are tons of common foods which set it off even now :/ we all need our KFC and bulgogi every now and then so great job. You’re really slim so I can imagine it might be a struggle to keep the right ratio! Do you drink alcohol socially etc?  drinking socially is a challenge for me; I like my drinks but I know it’s not healthy—there are so many models who allegedly quit for their beauty and that’s kind of my new year’s resolution.
> i might also suggest, you know how Koreans love their natural collagen off of bones and parts of meat only certain cultures eat. I really don’t know if this is folk wisdom or has actual factual merit but perhaps you might try incorporating that into your diet too? Since collagen tablets/supplements have become popular nowadays but when you check it’s either horrid-tasting powders, or 6 pills a day with a warning about bovine collagen containing sulfites. (BioSil is a collagen precursor I used to take; it comes in a dropper & you can add the liquid to an empty gelatin capsule - they’re sold at Amazon - it’s supposedly great for hair and plumping skin. All I know is I took it for a month when I was very down and eating an ill-advised diet, and my eyelashes became terrifyingly long nevertheless. Jen Atkin, hairdresser to the Kardashians (yeah whatever you think of them, she does do a lot of stars) used to recommend BioSil to all her clients until she started her own hair-care line.)
> -Btw I talked w a rep from Dr Seo’s clinic online when travel was more open a few months ago, and they seemed to get what I was aiming for (i had some pics of younger me and reference for the kind of eye I want)plus she was extremely cordial. I admit I’m really scared about someone screwing up my eye shape. I hope I can consult w him when the world situation has calmed down! it’s like my nose, I’m worried of a bad result since there are so many fail revision rhinoplasties. Your nose is like my dream nose! Not comically petite but slim and straight and with an elegant tip! I don’t know why you want it bigger, it’s wonderful!
> - I’d been meaning to ask, IIRC you had a fat graft to the forehead (?) - I can’t recall which clinic - it has truly made a difference… You have no lines! astounded at such a small thing which isn’t common in the West can make one look so youthful. I finally get why ppl in Korea kept asking if My forehead was silicone (???? Now it’s old and I’m getting lines which are such an age indicator, ugh) Did you ever have Botox/filler in your forehead before then or was the fat graft a proposal you encountered in Korea? I’m waiting to have anything done since I have an ill member of my Korean family and of course that takes precedence, plus omicron is scuffling everything everywhere (I’m scared to go to an orthodontist even though my front teeth are starting to gap. I had braces as a child but they don’t last like veneers). From where was the fat extracted if it’s ok to ask?
> -That is such a pretty selfie btw! I noticed you wear a lot of darker lip colors which flatter you and accentuate your lip shape (I’m jealous lol) but I think nudes or light pinks and a little shimmer on the center of your pout would also look very lovely with your coloring.
> 
> i know this can be an intensely personal Q so if you just want to gloss over it or ‘no comment’ I totally get it, or if you’re tired of talking about it? But what started your surgery/cosmetic procedure journey? As I recall you began later in life with a DES surgery? The amount of research you do and the manner in which you analyse your face and presentation is inspirational.
> 
> best wishes! I hope you have something lovely to eat today. I do remember as you mentioned eg Dominic Bray places his patients on a low salicylic (this is not the word) diet before facelift surgery, and some of US surgeons mandate avoiding salt for eg rhinoplasty as swelling can make it more difficult to see nuances in the cartilage structure. Are you on any dietary restrictions besides the usual supplement ones, or taking something like arnica in preparation? Forgive me if you mentioned it earlier. Perhaps you could start making miguk (seaweed soup) if you don’t already? The seaweed is full of nutrients (why it’s traditional after giving birth) AND it’s a sneaky way to add a rational amount of fatty meats (your choice, chicken, beef, etc) in whilst feeling healthy and satisfied. I started making it for myself and I’m no cook so it’s not like my grandma’s, but i was amazed at how quick/easy it is to make (rehydrating seaweed is like dump it in a bowl and forget about it) if you have stock on hand or buy it from a Korean grocers. (since making bone/sagwol broth takes foreverrrr although you do get the nutrients from the marrow. K grocers sell packaged sagwol broth tho)
> take care! You must be so excited!


Hi @sanarae, if you were in London we would be meeting up and chatting for hours about rejuvenation and plastic surgery! Thanks. I looked up Nuface and it is expensive at £150 for the mini pen version. I tried to find equivalent ones on ebay china but then gave up as there are too many to choose from. I shall wait for a sale on Nuface products to try but then again good point, do not want to affect my fat graft.

Oh no, you are right! Salmon fillets have fat! I have one fillet with rice and seaweed and the fillet I just looked up has 12g of fat. I wonder how much fat I need to eat daily to keep my fat graft cells happy yet not go over the maximum daily saturated fats limit. Each day I wake up not knowing if I will have a good or bad face so I was hoping the at least 20g fat diet theory was the answer. I must try your seaweed recipe. I love seaweed soup with rice and never knew it was that simple, ie to put dried seaweed into water and heat up. I feel I am so close to cracking the good days vs bad days and I am sure it has to do with the amount of dietary fat I eat daily. I just need to work out how many grams is needed so I do not go over and end up with a balloon face! lol.

I began my plastic surgery journey after having 3 children in succession and working long hours weekdays, weekends and nights which led to premature ageing in my 30s and then needed another overhaul at age 49/50 when my dad died in Korea and menopause aged me rapidly again. No secret just seems like having children and then the menopause ages all women! lol. I wonder if ladies who have no children age slower?

I had botox and radiesse in my 40s and then discovered facial fat graft in Korea at age 50. Yes, I love how the fat graft in my forehead, temples and upper lids are permanent so I never need botox ever again. Now that was worth the 2 million won and 1 million won top up for full face fat graft. Dr Seo did my full face fat graft in 2018 and top up in 2020. I think fat graft is one of the reasons my nasolabials are less prominent and I have not had to use radiesse for a few years now.

I too suffered from eczema as a child. Easy to cure. Just check you are not wearing synthetic fabrics. I stick to cotton, silk, linen, wool and cashmere.

Thank you for the tip on biosil. I tried a collagen powder drink for a month but I think the glass of water one mixes it in each morning helped more than the powder itself so now I make it a habit to drink a glass of water after my morning coffee while watching K dramas on netflix with the dog on the sofa.


----------



## Teina

Otto8 said:


> Hormone cream gave me acne.
> 
> I think profhilo has help a lot in skin texture and it is the same concept as diluted radiesse.



Was it compound estriol cream? I like profhilo but it doesn't last as long. Diluted Radiesse is one of the best anti-aging solutions, I love that thing.


----------



## Otto8

Teina said:


> Was it compound estriol cream? I like profhilo but it doesn't last as long. Diluted Radiesse is one of the best anti-aging solutions, I love that thing.



I don't know but I don't want acne.   So no cream.  I never use moisturisers anyway.   I just use a water spray from Cosmedix.


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange, 

Thanks to Covid, you can order sashimi online. 

I order from soldeli.co.uk

They have fatty tuna, and horse mackerel, which are also fatty.  I prefer to eat the fish raw.  

Just don't eat too  much tuna.  They contain mercury.


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> Today I was astounded that it was a good face day! Yesterday at a weight of 93.2 lbs, I was panicking as my face was super saggy and empty in the lower face. I should have taken a selfie but couldn’t bear to look at my face. I thought right I need to gain weight asap. I ate a mcdonalds egg mcmuffin for breakfast, bulgogi dosirak for lunch and then again for dinner. I am trying to work out what worked to give me a good face today at a weight of 94.4 lbs. I put the space heater on all night last night for the first time as it has been freezing temperatures in the UK and was able to sleep 8.5 hours instead of wake up freezing to death and tossing and turning trying to get back to sleep. I then googled and bulgogi has 22 grams of fat. My carb and protein diet had been extremely low in fat! This means I need to ensure I eat at least 20% of my calories in fat or at least 20g of fat a day. This will help feed my shrunken fat cells. No wonder Koreans look good! I need to eat Korean food daily or at least every other day. I drank a glass of water before the selfies. My face moles look like those connect the dot drawings I did as a child! lol. So the conclusion Amir Karam reached that one needs fat graft with a vertical facelift is correct as the facelift does not address the nasolabials and marionette lines but the fat graft does by replacing the lost facial fat volume that happens with either weight loss or menopause/ageing. Today I chose KFC as the fries have 14g of fat and zero cholesterol and each chicken piece has 10g of fat. Tomorrow I can choose Korean japchae noodles which has 9.5g of fat. Today is a happy day as no way do I look 55.6.
> 
> 1. Uninterrupted sleep for at least 8 hours to rest the face muscles.
> 2. Eat at least 20g of fat a day to feed the fat graft.
> 3. Keep your home warm, especially at night. Freezing temps shrink the fat cells. Wear a hood and scarf out to protect the face in extreme cold weather.
> 4. Always drink a glass of water before taking selfies.
> 5. Continue with daily joker smiling exercises to strengthen the LAO muscle.
> 6. Never let my weight drop below 94 lbs.
> 
> View attachment 5302758



OMG, OMG, OMG you should have stuck with Dr Dirk. I know he said you didn't need an FL maybe you went on one of your 'good' days. You should've showed him selfies of your 'bad' days to convince him. Check this out. She was 45 and looking 55 and he gave her an FL and necklift. SIX MONTHS POST and she's looks 26


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> OMG, OMG, OMG you should have stuck with Dr Dirk. I know he said you didn't need an FL maybe you went on one of your 'good' days. You should've showed him selfies of your 'bad' days to convince him. Check this out. She was 45 and looking 55 and he gave her an FL and necklift. SIX MONTHS POST and she's looks 26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5304817


What's his technique, SMAS or deep plane?


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> What's his technique, SMAS or deep plane?


His is a combo of SMAS and the Short Scar FL.   He says the Short Scar is quite effective in fixing the nasal fold.

*Facelifts - current options:*
"Conventional SMAS facelift - this is still the preferred operation for the majority of surgeons and it involves pulling the facial fat to the sides and attaching it behind the earlobes before removing any excess.
Pros: A well established procedure giving predictable, line-free results.
Cons: Can leave the face looking stretched, sometimes widening the mouth. Fat losses are often replaced during the facelift with a fat transfer from another part of the body to boost facial volume."

*Short scar facelift*
Another popular procedure that lifts the middle and lower face
Pros: An effective lift for those with deepening nose to mouth lines and early jowls. Scar is hidden around the ear.
Cons: Doesn't address the problem of flattened cheek bones and skin is stretched laterally before the excess is removed.

*T-B-T Facelift explained*
By blending the best bits taken from conventional facelift surgery and adding his own perspective, Dr Kremer has developed the T-B-T facelift, guaranteed to turn back the clock and leave you looking naturally refreshed and rejuvenated. Unlike conventional techniques, no fat is removed during this innovative procedure; rather it is collected and used to re-pad the cheeks restoring the fullness of youth. Skin and fat is pulled upwards rather than sideways, effectively reducing nose to mouth folds, smoothing the jawline and boosting flat cheeks, giving them a natural fullness.

Pros: A great lift for women and men of all ages. Scars are tiny and hidden in and around the ear. Instead of flattening the face it leaves the face full and youthful. 

*Cons:* Friends won't realise you've had surgery!


----------



## catelet

Transformation2021 said:


> His is a combo of SMAS and the Short Scar FL.   He says the Short Scar is quite effective in fixing the nasal fold.
> 
> *Facelifts - current options:*
> "Conventional SMAS facelift - this is still the preferred operation for the majority of surgeons and it involves pulling the facial fat to the sides and attaching it behind the earlobes before removing any excess.
> Pros: A well established procedure giving predictable, line-free results.
> Cons: Can leave the face looking stretched, sometimes widening the mouth. Fat losses are often replaced during the facelift with a fat transfer from another part of the body to boost facial volume."
> 
> *Short scar facelift*
> Another popular procedure that lifts the middle and lower face
> Pros: An effective lift for those with deepening nose to mouth lines and early jowls. Scar is hidden around the ear.
> Cons: Doesn't address the problem of flattened cheek bones and skin is stretched laterally before the excess is removed.
> 
> *T-B-T Facelift explained*
> By blending the best bits taken from conventional facelift surgery and adding his own perspective, Dr Kremer has developed the T-B-T facelift, guaranteed to turn back the clock and leave you looking naturally refreshed and rejuvenated. Unlike conventional techniques, no fat is removed during this innovative procedure; rather it is collected and used to re-pad the cheeks restoring the fullness of youth. Skin and fat is pulled upwards rather than sideways, effectively reducing nose to mouth folds, smoothing the jawline and boosting flat cheeks, giving them a natural fullness.
> 
> Pros: A great lift for women and men of all ages. Scars are tiny and hidden in and around the ear. Instead of flattening the face it leaves the face full and youthful.
> 
> *Cons:* Friends won't realise you've had surgery!



Interesting. So it's a conventional facelift that can make one's mouth wider.  There are some celebrities that look lifted and their mouths indeed look wide. It's not a good look--something seems "off," when you see it. Maybe in time with more aging, a mouth that's been stretched wider might return to its former position? MissOrange doesn't have that issue and looks beautiful.


----------



## msalbany

New face lift techniques like deep plane do not stretch skin … but release ligaments and lift underlying sagging tissue, excess skin is trimmed and sewn with no tension resulting in scars that heal well and no widening


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> OMG, OMG, OMG you should have stuck with Dr Dirk. I know he said you didn't need an FL maybe you went on one of your 'good' days. You should've showed him selfies of your 'bad' days to convince him. Check this out. She was 45 and looking 55 and he gave her an FL and necklift. SIX MONTHS POST and she's looks 26
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5304817


Wow @Transformation2021, I need to look this lady up on realself. You left out her scars by Dirk Kremer (see attached 2 photos). That’s not a tiny scar as his website describes for a tbt FL. Her issue was her very loose neck and not so much face. Looks like she had her op on June 8, a week before I was scheduled for my op with him. This is what I did not want, tramline staple scars. I need to correct you. Dr Dirk Kremer did say I needed a full face and neck lift at consult May 24, 2021, booked me for surgery and gave me a surgery date of 15 June. I paid the full amount for surgery which was almost £14k, £13,950. He cancelled me 2 days later when I asked for sutures and not staples in my face as I did not want tramline scars. He told me he oversews the smas which is smas plication. I was shocked at being cancelled by him and had to scramble to find another plastic surgeon at short notice. That is how I found Dr Nick Rhodes and saw him in June, told me I did not need a neck lift (I told both Nick and Dirk I had no neck concerns) and had my op July 5 with invisible scars with microsutures.


----------



## MissOrange

msalbany said:


> New face lift techniques like deep plane do not stretch skin … but release ligaments and lift underlying sagging tissue, excess skin is trimmed and sewn with no tension resulting in scars that heal well and no widening


Sadly all facelifts stretch skin. A patient posted a live video of even DB undermining the skin in his deep plane and freeing up the smas.


----------



## MissOrange

Okay after scoffing down a very fat loaded banana nut bread yesterday, along with japchae (9g of fat per meal) for lunch and dinner, I had hoped it would help fill out my face but it did not so I was still missing something out. It just added a lb of weight on me. Today I awoke to a bad sag face day. I noticed however that after I ate a wagamama mini cha han for lunch along with miso soup today, my face looked better. Maybe it was the fluid in miso soup? Or maybe I need to up both my water intake at the same time as my fat intake as yesterday I had the banana nut bread with a Starbucks coffee which is a diuretic and dehydrates? Clearly there is a link between food and fluid intake with good and bad face days.

I then thought if skin sagging is hormonal should I go to my GP for estriol cream or is there a way I can increase my oestrogen levels by eating certain foods? https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...4gf8pD_IMLSQ1N13c77UZ7cZWh0k#TOC_TITLE_HDR_11

Interestingly I eat strawberries and raspberries every evening after dinner already. I have bought peaches and eaten some today and need to explore more on the phytoestrogen list above.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Okay after scoffing down a very fat loaded banana nut bread yesterday, along with japchae (9g of fat per meal) for lunch and dinner, I had hoped it would help fill out my face but it did not so I was still missing something out. It just added a lb of weight on me. Today I awoke to a bad sag face day. I noticed however that after I ate a wagamama mini cha han for lunch along with miso soup today, my face looked better. Maybe it was the fluid in miso soup? Or maybe I need to up both my water intake at the same time as my fat intake as yesterday I had the banana nut bread with a Starbucks coffee which is a diuretic and dehydrates? Clearly there is a link between food and fluid intake with good and bad face days.
> 
> I then thought if skin sagging is hormonal should I go to my GP for estriol cream or is there a way I can increase my oestrogen levels by eating certain foods? https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...4gf8pD_IMLSQ1N13c77UZ7cZWh0k#TOC_TITLE_HDR_11
> 
> Interestingly I eat strawberries and raspberries every evening after dinner already. I have bought peaches and eaten some today and need to explore more on the phytoestrogen list above.




Oh, has Mr Rhodes detailed what he will do to ensure longevity and a better result for this amendment? 

Thank you in advance.  As usual, very helpful advice.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Oh, has Mr Rhodes detailed what he will do to ensure longevity and a better result for this amendment?
> 
> Thank you in advance.  As usual, bery helpful advice.


Good question @Otto8! I shall find out in 9 days time. He told one lady at consult recently that he has adapted his VR so it is more smas plication with less skin undermining.


----------



## sanarae

Hey @MissOrange & friends,

-the NuFace pen (Fix+) is useless according to the reviews. The one to get is the Trinity, not the Mini, it’s the most expensive one. It often goes on sale various places on a package deal—I would not buy a knockoff as one is dealing with electricity here. Although the Refa, a lower-intensity NuFace, is popular in Japan but weirdly more expensive. There are detachable NuFace attachments like the ELE (it looks like tiny targeted prongs. Recommended) & a red light ‘wrinkle reducer’. My friend loves the red light thing, but the general consensus is it’s ineffective, so to each their own.). They sell a conductive gel which is quite expensive when tallied up. The makeup artist Lisa Eldridge & many models in interviews I’ve read admitted they just use either aloe vera (like Lisa) or a conducive gel one can buy in bulk on Amazon for TENS devices et al which operates on the same principle. It’s called Spectrum 360 electrode gel. My mother uses that & while it’s not as cosmetically elegant, it does the same trick.

-lol I would love to meet up in UK someday! I had a job lined up slightly outside London (I’ve friends who are drs in London but not surgical)  before the pandemic actually,  & a Dominic Bray patient who had an astonishing result (I was more curious about a diff surgery she had done from another dr) generously offered to meet up for a bit of lunch and shopping so I could see her results IRL, & also we got on since we were both very cordial friendly people who made each other laugh. Unfortunately she had a run of bad luck as did I & well, you know how the global situation has been…I should message her, it’s been ages!

-I looked up the directions for miguk on my dried seaweed packets; I tend to use any brand that doesn’t look sus. You get a ton for cheap—for non-Koreans please make sure you are buying the right one as there are so many preparations of seaweed. also, if you look at a recipe book or ask an ajumma they’ll tell you something insanely complicated/time-consuming, love them. But even if it’s simple it’s full of flavour from the seaweed itself  (your salmon & seaweed sounds delish—I must try it later this week! I do have the ingredients…) supposedly Victoria Beckham ate seaweed to stay fit after having her children. ok so: Broth: use anything from fancy sagwol to bone/chicken broth from the market. Kinda depends on your taste. It’s soup so needs liquid you know? If you have leftover meats or poultry add in for protein. If one is on a diet or vegetarian then it can be omitted. I personally divvy up meats into 4oz (5 for fish) & freeze so it’s a quick defrost and stir fry. Did I mention I’m busy/ lazy as hell?  some ppl add anchovy/sand lance/fish sauce but I’m personally like if you’re not a master chef this can go very wrong very fast. You mentioned being worried of being too puffy if you eat too much fats— one of the main issues IME isn’t fats (like healthy fat not trans-fats etc) but salt. I used to model as a side gig (nothing famous, it was just a fun thing in my 20s) in Korea, & as delicious as Korean food is, it’s traditionally full of salt, as many vegetable dishes had to be salted to preserve over long winters. I don’t like to stir up controversy but sometimes I hear ppl saying they’re going to have heaps of Korean food before/after surgery & it’s honestly not great for a perfect result, as surgeons should be able to see one’s bone structure without swelling for optimal results. Fat yes, salt no, you can always go out to eat later when healed! When I worked in modeling, & I fully anticipate hate for this which is valid come at me, I didn’t eat rice & avoided salt if I knew I’d be photographed. I’m weird, I just don’t like rice as I find it dull—I’d rather have banchan or main dishes!

-water & hydration are crucial as you know. Perhaps the coffee dehydrated you? I quit drinking coffee when I noticed it made my face dehydrated & dry. Also Starbucks makes their coffees unnecessarily strong! Maybe it is the water which is serving you great face after all! 

-What k dramas are you into? I haven’t watched any in ages; I’ve been hooked on Succession & some other Scandi/English shows lol. But I love watching k dramas since every actor is so perfect looking (ok, jealous) & they have the most elegant style!

-I really am not a fan of the Kakao interface but if anyone wants to DM their kakao, signal, WhatsApp & are /serious/ about procedures (any country), beauty/fashion, tips on travelling to Korea I’m here. Please note my written Korean is very poor so I prefer English if that’s ok. 
-I just wanted to add one thing, Ofc before/after photos are ‘enhanced’ like lots of clinics but many consultants I met looked like the after photos without filters. I don’t have any affiliation with them and my positive view was based on 1. They didn’t try to sell me extra procedures 2. The consultants looked amazing. Through some weird misunderstanding some clinic followed me on IG for a while lol.

also i am so amazed you followed a medical degree and had wonderful daughters. That’s so aspirational!


----------



## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> Hey @MissOrange & friends,
> 
> -the NuFace pen (Fix+) is useless according to the reviews. The one to get is the Trinity, not the Mini, it’s the most expensive one. It often goes on sale various places on a package deal—I would not buy a knockoff as one is dealing with electricity here. Although the Refa, a lower-intensity NuFace, is popular in Japan but weirdly more expensive. There are detachable NuFace attachments like the ELE (it looks like tiny targeted prongs. Recommended) & a red light ‘wrinkle reducer’. My friend loves the red light thing, but the general consensus is it’s ineffective, so to each their own.). They sell a conductive gel which is quite expensive when tallied up. The makeup artist Lisa Eldridge & many models in interviews I’ve read admitted they just use either aloe vera (like Lisa) or a conducive gel one can buy in bulk on Amazon for TENS devices et al which operates on the same principle. It’s called Spectrum 360 electrode gel. My mother uses that & while it’s not as cosmetically elegant, it does the same trick.
> 
> -lol I would love to meet up in UK someday! I had a job lined up slightly outside London (I’ve friends who are drs in London but not surgical)  before the pandemic actually,  & a Dominic Bray patient who had an astonishing result (I was more curious about a diff surgery she had done from another dr) generously offered to meet up for a bit of lunch and shopping so I could see her results IRL, & also we got on since we were both very cordial friendly people who made each other laugh. Unfortunately she had a run of bad luck as did I & well, you know how the global situation has been…I should message her, it’s been ages!
> 
> -I looked up the directions for miguk on my dried seaweed packets; I tend to use any brand that doesn’t look sus. You get a ton for cheap—for non-Koreans please make sure you are buying the right one as there are so many preparations of seaweed. also, if you look at a recipe book or ask an ajumma they’ll tell you something insanely complicated/time-consuming, love them. But even if it’s simple it’s full of flavour from the seaweed itself  (your salmon & seaweed sounds delish—I must try it later this week! I do have the ingredients…) supposedly Victoria Beckham ate seaweed to stay fit after having her children. ok so: Broth: use anything from fancy sagwol to bone/chicken broth from the market. Kinda depends on your taste. It’s soup so needs liquid you know? If you have leftover meats or poultry add in for protein. If one is on a diet or vegetarian then it can be omitted. I personally divvy up meats into 4oz (5 for fish) & freeze so it’s a quick defrost and stir fry. Did I mention I’m busy/ lazy as hell?  some ppl add anchovy/sand lance/fish sauce but I’m personally like if you’re not a master chef this can go very wrong very fast. You mentioned being worried of being too puffy if you eat too much fats— one of the main issues IME isn’t fats (like healthy fat not trans-fats etc) but salt. I used to model as a side gig (nothing famous, it was just a fun thing in my 20s) in Korea, & as delicious as Korean food is, it’s traditionally full of salt, as many vegetable dishes had to be salted to preserve over long winters. I don’t like to stir up controversy but sometimes I hear ppl saying they’re going to have heaps of Korean food before/after surgery & it’s honestly not great for a perfect result, as surgeons should be able to see one’s bone structure without swelling for optimal results. Fat yes, salt no, you can always go out to eat later when healed! When I worked in modeling, & I fully anticipate hate for this which is valid come at me, I didn’t eat rice & avoided salt if I knew I’d be photographed. I’m weird, I just don’t like rice as I find it dull—I’d rather have banchan or main dishes!
> 
> -water & hydration are crucial as you know. Perhaps the coffee dehydrated you? I quit drinking coffee when I noticed it made my face dehydrated & dry. Also Starbucks makes their coffees unnecessarily strong! Maybe it is the water which is serving you great face after all!
> 
> -What k dramas are you into? I haven’t watched any in ages; I’ve been hooked on Succession & some other Scandi/English shows lol. But I love watching k dramas since every actor is so perfect looking (ok, jealous) & they have the most elegant style!
> 
> -I really am not a fan of the Kakao interface but if anyone wants to DM their kakao, signal, WhatsApp & are /serious/ about procedures (any country), beauty/fashion, tips on travelling to Korea I’m here. Please note my written Korean is very poor so I prefer English if that’s ok.
> -I just wanted to add one thing, Ofc before/after photos are ‘enhanced’ like lots of clinics but many consultants I met looked like the after photos without filters. I don’t have any affiliation with them and my positive view was based on 1. They didn’t try to sell me extra procedures 2. The consultants looked amazing. Through some weird misunderstanding some clinic followed me on IG for a while lol.
> 
> also i am so amazed you followed a medical degree and had wonderful daughters. That’s so aspirational!


So much to digest! Thank you @sanarae. Small world. I am friends with another Nick lady whose own younger sis won Bray's free £40k FL/NL! Her sis meets him next month for consult and op September. I shall keep a look out for nuface trinity sales.


----------



## MissOrange

A trip down ps memory lane...in my late 40s I hit menopause and I emailed Grand and BK in Seoul asking for advice to make me beautiful. Grand said I needed double jaw surgery, v line, fat graft etc. Boy did I feel ugly. BK said I just needed fat graft and removal of the upper lip filler/scar tissue. BK was spot on. At age 50 I had full face fg at daprs and vermillion lip lift by Dr Choi at mvp that cut out my upper duck lip scar tissue in Korea. Dr Seo did my upper lids and lid fat graft in May 2016. When in doubt message korean ps clinics! I must say Korean plastic surgeons know asian beauty!


----------



## MissOrange

My lip journey has been equally magical. Yes the bullhorn lip lift everted and gave me a full upper lip and shorter philtrum 5 years ago but how did carmex lip balm make my lower lip grow bigger too over time? Bottom left at age 40, bottom right at age 49 and top at age 55.


----------



## sanarae

Your lips are perfection @MissOrange. I’ve never wanted lip injections as when I lived in Cali I saw a lot of bad results but the bullhorn lift makes me wonder! It’s down on my priority list after eye work etc plus  ‘find new career that makes a shedload of money’ ‘marry rich I guess?’ lol 
Crazy how you look more gorgeous the more you age. You were a beautiful person as you started & became even more stunning!
May I ask, in your photo after the graft, your V line looks more defined/elegant. Do you chalk it up solely to fat graft and the surgeons’ work or did you have anything done to accentuate it?
I wonder if many of us have IRL acquaintances in common!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> A trip down ps memory lane...in my late 40s I hit menopause and I emailed Grand and BK in Seoul asking for advice to make me beautiful. Grand said I needed double jaw surgery, v line, fat graft etc. Boy did I feel ugly. BK said I just needed fat graft and removal of the upper lip filler/scar tissue. BK was spot on. At age 50 I had full face fg at daprs and vermillion lip lift by Dr Choi at mvp that cut out my upper duck lip scar tissue in Korea. Dr Seo did my upper lids and lid fat graft in May 2016. When in doubt message korean ps clinics! I must say Korean plastic surgeons know asian beauty!
> 
> View attachment 5305673


@MissOrange , I swear you look more and more beautiful with age.

Did you get your lips lifted twice, once in London and once more in Korea?  and may i ask why?


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , I swear you look more and more beautiful with age.
> 
> Did you get your lips lifted twice, once in London and once more in Korea?  and may i ask why?


Yes I did @Lien. I booked and paid for bullhorn lip lift with Dr Choi at MVP for 2.5 million won but on the morning of the surgery I was told he was not going to do bullhorn but instead vermillion. In a surgical robe and starved I thought I have flown all the way from the UK to Korea, paid in full and now the surgeon wants to do a different lip lift??? I had no choice but to go ahead. At first I was pleased with the result, my duck lip pout was gone and my upper lip looked full (swollen from surgery) but when I got home, I deswelled and the lip was even thinner than before and the philtrum was long and unchanged. I contacted mvp for a revision but Dr Choi insisted I needed to repay him as he did not do free revisions so I found Miss Mills on realself and chatted with 3 of her ladies who left reviews. One was a year out and had said she had revision for a bullhorn lip scar so I knew to expect a scar but also knew steroid injections may help and it did at one year. I finally got my bullhorn lip lift for £2450. In the end I reasoned that the scar tissue/lip filler had to be cut out so I did indeed need a vermillion lip lift and then it was up to Mills to evert my upper lip and reduce my philtrum by 9 mms. The only imperfection is my upper lip cupid’s bow sits slightly off to the right of my face.


----------



## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> Your lips are perfection @MissOrange. I’ve never wanted lip injections as when I lived in Cali I saw a lot of bad results but the bullhorn lift makes me wonder! It’s down on my priority list after eye work etc plus  ‘find new career that makes a shedload of money’ ‘marry rich I guess?’ lol
> Crazy how you look more gorgeous the more you age. You were a beautiful person as you started & became even more stunning!
> May I ask, in your photo after the graft, your V line looks more defined/elegant. Do you chalk it up solely to fat graft and the surgeons’ work or did you have anything done to accentuate it?
> I wonder if many of us have IRL acquaintances in common!


When my face is lifted by fat graft, by threads or by a facelift, it goes V line. But as the fat graft reabsorbs, threads get taken out or the smas drops from the sutures dissolving, my face drops too and goes U shaped or hexagonal. I had a lovely V line in months 1-3 post facelift. In 8 days I need my face lifted again to last until my daughter’s wedding. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> The only imperfection is my upper lip cupid’s bow sits slightly off to the right of my face.



But this quirk makes you more beautiful.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> When my face is lifted by fat graft, by threads or by a facelift, it goes V line. But as the fat graft reabsorbs, threads get taken out or the smas drops from the sutures dissolving, my face drops too and goes U shaped or hexagonal. I had a lovely V line in months 1-3 post facelift. In 8 days I need my face lifted again to last until my daughter’s wedding. Fingers crossed!



If you had to go to Korea for a face lift, which surgeon would you approach? 

Smas plication is not necessarily bad, is it?

Thank you so much for your advice and opinion.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> If you had to go to Korea for a face lift, which surgeon would you approach?
> 
> Smas plication is not necessary bad, is it?
> 
> Thank you so much for your advice and opinion.


Dr Dongman Park at Bio clinic, the chief surgeon at ASPS clinic and Dr Kirk at Namu.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Yes I did @Lien. I booked and paid for bullhorn lip lift with Dr Choi at MVP for 2.5 million won but on the morning of the surgery I was told he was not going to do bullhorn but instead vermillion. In a surgical robe and starved I thought I have flown all the way from the UK to Korea, paid in full and now the surgeon wants to do a different lip lift??? I had no choice but to go ahead. At first I was pleased with the result, my duck lip pout was gone and my upper lip looked full (swollen from surgery) but when I got home, I deswelled and the lip was even thinner than before and the philtrum was long and unchanged. I contacted mvp for a revision but Dr Choi insisted I needed to repay him as he did not do free revisions so I found Miss Mills on realself and chatted with 3 of her ladies who left reviews. One was a year out and had said she had revision for a bullhorn lip scar so I knew to expect a scar but also knew steroid injections may help and it did at one year. I finally got my bullhorn lip lift for £2450. In the end I reasoned that the scar tissue/lip filler had to be cut out so I did indeed need a vermillion lip lift and then it was up to Mills to evert my upper lip and reduce my philtrum by 9 mms. The only imperfection is my upper lip cupid’s bow sits slightly off to the right of my face.



Thank you for this very informative post, @MissOrange .  Your lips look perfect now.  I don't see any imperfection.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Yes I did @Lien. I booked and paid for bullhorn lip lift with Dr Choi at MVP for 2.5 million won but on the morning of the surgery I was told he was not going to do bullhorn but instead vermillion. In a surgical robe and starved I thought I have flown all the way from the UK to Korea, paid in full and now the surgeon wants to do a different lip lift??? I had no choice but to go ahead. At first I was pleased with the result, my duck lip pout was gone and my upper lip looked full (swollen from surgery) but when I got home, I deswelled and the lip was even thinner than before and the philtrum was long and unchanged. I contacted mvp for a revision but Dr Choi insisted I needed to repay him as he did not do free revisions so I found Miss Mills on realself and chatted with 3 of her ladies who left reviews. One was a year out and had said she had revision for a bullhorn lip scar so I knew to expect a scar but also knew steroid injections may help and it did at one year. I finally got my bullhorn lip lift for £2450. In the end I reasoned that the scar tissue/lip filler had to be cut out so I did indeed need a vermillion lip lift and then it was up to Mills to evert my upper lip and reduce my philtrum by 9 mms. The only imperfection is my upper lip cupid’s bow sits slightly off to the right of my face.



Wow, that is MVP out for me.  I could not face spending a tosh of money to arrive in Korea and be held to ransom for another extra how many million won so he will do the job.  That is nasty.  

I think Miss Mills is retired.

There is another Caroline Mills here at 44 Wimpole Street. 

@MissOrange, is it the same one? :


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Wow, that is MVP out for me.  I could not face spending a tosh of money to arrive in Korea and be held to ransom for another extra how many million won so he will do the job.  That is nasty.
> 
> I think Miss Mills is retired.
> 
> There is another Caroline Mills here at 44 Wimpole Street.
> 
> @MissOrange, is it the same one? :
> 
> View attachment 5306576


This is the photo of the amazing maxillofacial surgeon Caroline Mills who did my bullhorn facelift probably called deep plane by flashy plastic surgeons. She was humble and extremely talented and competent. Yes she was on Wimpole Street.


----------



## MissOrange

Today was a revelation. I looked up 2 of DB’s deep plane facelift ladies and one (IG: facelift floosie) showed lower face laxity at a record 2 months postop! And the other at 4-7 months postop. The latter lady then resorted to fillers in the lower face. A lady who had a full smas plication facelift and neck lift with another prominent UK surgeon sent me her photos of 6 weeks vs 4 months to demonstrate she too is experiencing lower face laxity at 4 months! This made me realise that lower facelifts whether it be macs, smas plication or deep plane may not hold up the lower face past 4 months and that ladies may end up needing botox for a botox lip flip and dermal fillers to add volume for lower face laxity! There are always exceptions but this has made me realise that neck lifts work but lower face lifts have their limits. That said I have yet to see a smasectomy result. I need to find a surgeon who does smasectomy, as this may be the one that holds up the lower face for years instead of months.


----------



## Otto8

Thank you so much.  She is sadly retired.


----------



## elskaourafguoi

MissOrange said:


> Today was a revelation. I looked up 2 of DB’s deep plane facelift ladies and one (IG: facelift floosie) showed lower face laxity at a record 2 months postop! And the other at 4-7 months postop. The latter lady then resorted to fillers in the lower face. A lady who had a full smas plication facelift and neck lift with another prominent UK surgeon sent me her photos of 6 weeks vs 4 months to demonstrate she too is experiencing lower face laxity at 4 months! This made me realise that lower facelifts whether it be macs, smas plication or deep plane may not hold up the lower face past 4 months and that ladies may end up needing botox for a botox lip flip and dermal fillers to add volume for lower face laxity! There are always exceptions but this has made me realise that neck lifts work but lower face lifts have their limits. That said I have yet to see a smasectomy result. I need to find a surgeon who does smasectomy, as this may be the one that holds up the lower face for years instead of months.


Thanks for sharing! That’s disappointing to hear even deep plane facelifts doesn’t fully address lower face laxity  I’ve been considering this procedure but now wonder if it’s worth it since my case isn’t that severe.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Today was a revelation. I looked up 2 of DB’s deep plane facelift ladies and one (IG: facelift floosie) showed lower face laxity at a record 2 months postop! And the other at 4-7 months postop. The latter lady then resorted to fillers in the lower face. A lady who had a full smas plication facelift and neck lift with another prominent UK surgeon sent me her photos of 6 weeks vs 4 months to demonstrate she too is experiencing lower face laxity at 4 months! This made me realise that lower facelifts whether it be macs, smas plication or deep plane may not hold up the lower face past 4 months and that ladies may end up needing botox for a botox lip flip and dermal fillers to add volume for lower face laxity! There are always exceptions but this has made me realise that neck lifts work but lower face lifts have their limits. That said I have yet to see a smasectomy result. I need to find a surgeon who does smasectomy, as this may be the one that holds up the lower face for years instead of months.



Does Dr Dongman Park do Smasectomy?


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Does Dr Dongman Park do Smasectomy?


That is a very good question. Who will kakao or ig message and find out?

On another side note, maybe the reason I have good face days when I eat kfc or bulgogi is not due to fat (banana nut bread with coffee did not help) but due to protein! Maybe my face muscles need protein?!


----------



## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> That is a very good question. Who will kakao or ig message and find out?
> 
> On another side note, maybe the reason I have good face days when I eat kfc or bulgogi is not due to fat (banana nut bread with coffee did not help) but due to protein! Maybe my face muscles need protein?!



@MissOrange Do you think its the sodium intake (kfc, bulgogi) that makes your face "swollen", giving the impression of good face day? Just a thought though...


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> That is a very good question. Who will kakao or ig message and find out?
> 
> On another side note, maybe the reason I have good face days when I eat kfc or bulgogi is not due to fat (banana nut bread with coffee did not help) but due to protein! Maybe my face muscles need protein?!



Let me message him on instagram.  Let's see what he says.  I cannot understand Korean and the only thing I understood on one of the posts was that he had performed an Extended Dual Deep Plane Smasectomy on a patient and she did look very good.  The pictures were too small for me to see if there was any sagging.

Edited:  I have just messaged him on instagram.  Let's see.


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange , since your facial sagging is so minimal, would you consider Ultherapy or Thermage?


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> @MissOrange , since your facial sagging is so minimal, would you consider Ultherapy or Thermage?


Hi @Lien I tried ultherapy and it melted my lower face fat graft. Set me back a couple of fat grafts.


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> @MissOrange Do you think its the sodium intake (kfc, bulgogi) that makes your face "swollen", giving the impression of good face day? Just a thought though...


It is so confusing @Fortunecat whether it is fat intake, msg or salt intake, fluid intake or protein intake and tired muscles. I had no worries for months 1-3 after the facelift. I miss having only good face days no matter what I ate or drank. Sigh.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien I tried ultherapy and it melted my lower face fat graft. Set me back a couple of fat grafts.



I agree.  I liked Ultherapy when younger.  It kept the sagging away. 

At this age of 51, I would head for a more permanant solution.  I don't have a lot of sagging, maybe because I have always made sure to either do Ultherapy or derma rollers, and then profhilo. 

However, as one ages, the steps we take have to be calculated to produce better returns and longevity, because we don't produce collagen and we cannot bounce back like we could when young.   That's my approach anyway.


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange, I am so confused.

If Dr Park does only Extended Dual Deep Plane Smasectomy, that is something first timers should not do. 

First timers like me should only start with Smasectomy?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Oh, I also messaged him using his contact form on his website.   Let's see his response.


----------



## Fortunecat

Otto8 said:


> I agree.  I liked Ultherapy when younger.  It kept the sagging away.
> 
> At this age of 51, I would head for a more permanant solution.  I don't have a lot of sagging, maybe because I have always made sure to either do Ultherapy or derma rollers, and then profhilo.
> 
> However, as one ages, the steps we take have to be calculated to produce better returns and longevity, because we don't produce collagen and we cannot bounce back like we could when young.   That's my approach anyway.



How about Fractional CO2 laser? It helps to stimulate collagen production as well as reduce pore sizes and acne scarring. However, the downtime is about 1 week though.
When I was younger, I tried Fractional Co2 laser before and I loved that my face was plumped up after a week later.


----------



## Lien

OMG, that's no good!


MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien I tried ultherapy and it melted my lower face fat graft. Set me back a couple of fat grafts.


----------



## Otto8

Fortunecat said:


> How about Fractional CO2 laser? It helps to stimulate collagen production as well as reduce pore sizes and acne scarring. However, the downtime is about 1 week though.
> When I was younger, I tried Fractional Co2 laser before and I loved that my face was plumped up after a week later.



Nope.  It can cause hypopigmentation in Asian candidates.  And again, this is a cheaper (still expensive into the thousands of £££) procedure that lacks longevity, and is not ideal for older candidates.


----------



## Otto8

Dr Park has replied.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Dr Park has replied.
> 
> View attachment 5309404
> 
> 
> View attachment 5309405


Hi @Otto8 , I also got the same cut and paste reply. Wide dissection and resection means nothing specific. One does wide dissection and resection for cancer. It is just a broad surgical term for dissecting (skin, tissues or muscles) and resecting (cutting out skin, tissues, tumours, etc.). It does not specify how that applies to doing a facelift. It is too vague. Sigh. This is where the language barrier can be dangerous.


----------



## MissOrange

For the lady who had sagging at 4 months post full smas plication facelift, her UK surgeon has now offered her free mini deep plane in 6 months time! He explains that he prefers to do deep plane as smas plication does not hold as well. It was the patient’s choice to try smas plication first as she is younger.

Smas plication facelift in a Bray patient held only for 1-2 years and he is only offering her deep plane at full price, no discounts. It seems smas plication is the simplest form of full smas facelift so easier for the surgeon to perform but the results are not as long lasting! This leaves either smasectomy (cutting a bit of smas out) or deep plane for facelift longevity. I have 5 days to go and have to accept the limitations of the macs lift revision but at least it will take me to my daughter’s wedding.


----------



## Otto8

I have asked Dr Park to clarify specifically what he means by wide dissection and resection.  

I asked him:

'As it is vague regarding your surgery techinques, would you say it is a mini deep plane where you release the 4 ligaments located in the SMAS layer to lift and reposition the tissues more evenly and with less tension placed on the skin ? I don't want to go all the way to Korea, with language barriers, only to discover it is an approach similar to SMAS plication.

One does wide dissection and resection also for cancer patients, hence the ambiguity I am facing, in understanding your approach.

Thank you so much.'


I also asked him when I should book a consultation, and whether he does an online consultation, if say I wanted to go this August.  

Let's see what he says.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> For the lady who had sagging at 4 months post full smas plication facelift, her UK surgeon has now offered her free mini deep plane in 6 months time! He explains that he prefers to do deep plane as smas plication does not hold as well. It was the patient’s choice to try smas plication first as she is younger.
> 
> Smas plication facelift in a Bray patient held only for 1-2 years and he is only offering her deep plane at full price, no discounts. It seems smas plication is the simplest form of full smas facelift so easier for the surgeon to perform but the results are not as long lasting! This leaves either smasectomy (cutting a bit of smas out) or deep plane for facelift longevity. I have 5 days to go and have to accept the limitations of the macs lift revision but at least it will take me to my daughter’s wedding.



@MissOrange, Which UK surgeon is she using?  

Thank you.


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> That is a very good question. Who will kakao or ig message and find out?
> 
> On another side note, maybe the reason I have good face days when I eat kfc or bulgogi is not due to fat (banana nut bread with coffee did not help) but due to protein! Maybe my face muscles need protein?!



He proudly informs he does extended deep plane


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange, Which UK surgeon is she using?
> 
> Thank you.


Anthony MacQuillan.


----------



## MissOrange

With 3 days to go I have been comparing my video from December 2 at 98.6 lbs which is very close to the surgery weight of 98.8 lbs with it’s jowl, nasolabial and marionette line to this morning’s video at a weight of 93.4 lbs or bmi of 17.6 which is unsustainable and unhealthy where I have managed to reduce the jowl and marionette lines with extreme weight loss but I can still pinch more skin in the lower face now than I did post VR in months 1-3. So we shall see what happens on Monday. Removing extra skin may finally stop the bad sag face days that come on without warning at any time of the day although mostly in the evenings. As Nick said, ”we are getting there.”


----------



## MissOrange

I found this photo which perfectly shows nasolabial lines, marionettes, jowl, pre jowl and prejowl sulcus. This allows you to assess your need for a facelift or revision.


----------



## MissOrange

With 2 days to go, I have been debating whether I get the revision or not. My youngest daughter says my face looks fine. I managed to remove the jowl around my mouth corner by weight loss and I can continue to work on smiling exercises to lift the downturn to my lip corners. I have managed to shrink my skin by losing weight from 98.8 lbs surgery day weight to 93-4-94.4 lbs. Here is a collage at 6.5 months post at a weight of 94.4 lbs and the moles are higher than they were when I weighed 98.8-100 lbs postop. The only thing I cannot do is lift the smas layer so I cannot get the V line jawline back without smas surgery. That needs smasectomy with trimming and shortening of the smas layer but this is something I need to research further as I cannot find a surgeon in the UK who does smasectomy. They seem to opt for the easier smas plication technique with a shorter longevity and those offering deep plane do not seem to explain what they do with the smas layer. Is it all hoisted up in one lot and sutured like plication or do they isolate the smas and perform a smasectomy? I have seen lower face laxity in photos of deep plane results anywhere between 2 and 6 months.


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday I had a bad sag face day so I definitely want revision tomorrow morning. Here is my month 1 vs yesterday selfies. I asked Nick for my months 1-3 face back.


----------



## Lien

Good luck for tomorrow, @MissOrange .  I hope Nick Rhodes can deliver what you want.


----------



## Otto8

I hope Nick Rhodes delivers.  Eat and rest well!


----------



## Transformation2021

Ladies more and more I'm thinking a mdi-face lift is the one to address nasal folds. This woman is at 6 months post and no return of folds


----------



## MissOrange

I am 3 hours out from facial retightening surgery under local. A further 1 cm of skin was trimmed as well as more deep smas pds sutures as I cannot tolerate permanent ethibond sutures. I have now had a total of 3.5 cms of skin trimmed from each side which includes the 2.5 cms trimmed in July. Nick Rhodes was very kind to do this surgery for free! All facelifts show some laxity at 4-6 months once the swelling goes and some ladies resort to fillers after smas or deep plane FLs. Instead I got retightening surgery! Soooo pleased.

I look soooooo good!!!!. I will now look good for a 56 year old mother of the bride in family wedding photos in May! Yippee!

Remember wedding photos are stored in an album for posterity! That is why Dr Kirk at Namu Clinic says they get lots of brides for threads or facelifts when I saw a huge display and wedding photos on a tv monitor in his clinic in Korea.


----------



## Otto8

I think most surgeons in the UK offer a revision within a certain window of time post surgery.  Hospital fees though, the patient has to bear.  It's a complicated issue, revision and fees.  Sometimes, I hear that the surgeon will not agree to a free revision because the surgeon deems the patient's expectations unrealistic.

It is reassuring that Mr Rhodes will do his utmost to perfect his work.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> I think most surgeons in the UK offer a revision within a certain window of time post surgery.  Hospital fees though, the patient has to bear.  It's a complicated issue, revision and fees.  Sometimes, I hear that the surgeon will not agree to a free revision because the surgeon deems the patient's expectations unrealistic.
> 
> It is reassuring that Mr Rhodes will do his utmost to perfect his work.


Hi @Otto8 yes the good news is because his clinic now has 2 fully functioning operating theatres which can offer GA, there was no extra charge. Yes when I had rhino revision, I just had to pay the hospital overnight stay fee as I was added on to the end of Mr Ion's list.


----------



## Otto8

I hope you rest well.

I already love Mr Rhodes! His work  is so neat!

No need to go to Korea for now, I think.  I am so torn.  Haha, and it is all about a facelift!

Did it feel strange or not so nice under GA?  I am so scared to do this under GA.  It isn't twilight, is it?


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> I hope you rest well.
> 
> I already love Mr Rhodes! His work  is so neat!
> 
> No need to go to Korea for now, I think.  I am so torn.  Haha, and it is all about a facelift!
> 
> Did it feel strange or not so nice under GA?  I am so scared to do this under GA.  It isn't twilight, is it?


Hi @Otto8, Nick does his VR under local. This time the pain from the local anaesthetic injections and cannulas was less than first time around. i asked if he injected more local this time. I was expecting childbirth pain again but instead it was painful but not intolerable.

His wife Orla had a lovely chat with me again. When she had to step out for a few minutes that's when I heard the buzzing of the diathermy, the crunching of my scar tissue being cut and thought wow so chatting completely distracts the mind and blocks out those other sounds, plus I have very good hearing. I think wearing glasses all my life made my hearing better than normal. They played 90s music in the background which was my generation music so I loved that. It is their generation too as they are 55 and 56 and I am 55.7 years old.

They can offer iv twilight sedation or GA but that costs £3k extra.

Now that I have had a total of 3.5 cms of skin (1 cm now and 2.5 cms last time) trimmed on each side and more deep smas sutures put in, I am hoping fingers crossed the laxity once I deswell is minor. I don't fancy dermal fillers after facelifts like some ladies are doing. After all isn't that why we get facelifts so we can stop getting fillers?

I must say Nick does create beauty with his facelifts. I have seen lots of b&a facelifts and wondered yes the face is lifted but why do most of the ladies not look +++ more beautiful. They look better or younger but not as beautiful as Nick made me and Claire Hobson on IG.

I do wonder if overtightening and leaving a lady looking like an alien would then compensate for the skin relaxing at 4-6 months? But some of Bray's ladies still required fillers afterwards even after coping with an initial alien face.

So the question arises again as to how long I can have a tight beautiful V line shaped face. Time will tell. I have May 31 marked in my diary and hope this time I can save my 3rd facelift to my 60s when I will get a smasectomy that will last a decade and then have to get a 4th facelift, a deep plane with smasectomy in my 70s.


----------



## Otto8

Ok, no no, no childbirth pain.  I hate canulas.  I already really hate Profhio injections.

Thank you so much.  I think  nearer home is always safer.  And I can always tell Mr Rhodes, "I'll have what she had."


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> Ok, no no, no childbirth pain.  I hate canulas.  I already really hate Profhio injections.
> 
> Thank you so much.  I think  nearer home is always safer.  And I can always tell Mr Rhodes, *"I'll have what she had*."



Me too!


----------



## K Couture

I hope it all goes well for you Miss orange. Sending healing vibes!


----------



## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Otto8, Nick does his VR under local. This time the pain from the local anaesthetic injections and cannulas was less than first time around. i asked if he injected more local this time. I was expecting childbirth pain again but instead it was painful but not intolerable.
> 
> His wife Orla had a lovely chat with me again. When she had to step out for a few minutes that's when I heard the buzzing of the diathermy, the crunching of my scar tissue being cut and thought wow so chatting completely distracts the mind and blocks out those other sounds, plus I have very good hearing. I think wearing glasses all my life made my hearing better than normal. They played 90s music in the background which was my generation music so I loved that. It is their generation too as they are 55 and 56 and I am 55.7 years old.
> 
> They can offer iv twilight sedation or GA but that costs £3k extra.
> 
> Now that I have had a total of 3.5 cms of skin (1 cm now and 2.5 cms last time) trimmed on each side and more deep smas sutures put in, I am hoping fingers crossed the laxity once I deswell is minor. I don't fancy dermal fillers after facelifts like some ladies are doing. After all isn't that why we get facelifts so we can stop getting fillers?
> 
> I must say Nick does create beauty with his facelifts. I have seen lots of b&a facelifts and wondered yes the face is lifted but why do most of the ladies not look +++ more beautiful. They look better or younger but not as beautiful as Nick made me and Claire Hobson on IG.
> 
> I do wonder if overtightening and leaving a lady looking like an alien would then compensate for the skin relaxing at 4-6 months? But some of Bray's ladies still required fillers afterwards even after coping with an initial alien face.
> 
> So the question arises again as to how long I can have a tight beautiful V line shaped face. Time will tell. I have May 31 marked in my diary and hope this time I can save my 3rd facelift to my 60s when I will get a smasectomy that will last a decade and then have to get a 4th facelift, a deep plane with smasectomy in my 70s.


oooof you are brave to do it under Local anesthesia not once but twice. I can never see myself going through that!


----------



## MissOrange

Day 2 and I started taking prednisolone for the swelling. I shall take on days 2-4. Trying to make sure I do not stretch my retightened skin with swelling. Am wearing regular ice packs in a head wrap from Amazon for £14, my ebay china £5 white compression bandage with velcro straps on the top of the scalp and behind the head, drinking tons of pineapple juice, eating pineapple chunks and sucking on popsicles. I took Nayak’s IG video advice and cleaned my scabs with diluted hydrogen peroxide on q tips.

Here is my day 2 morning selfie on the right vs my day of surgery selfie 2 days ago on the left. The retightening seems to have lifted my saggy face off the floor! I looked like I was turning into a zombie from All of us are dead with a dislocated jaw! lol.

I last had VR in July when there was a heatwave and I noticed eating ramen made the swelling worse too. This time it is freezing weather so my swelling seems less. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Maybe then it is a good time to have a facelift in the winter months rather than the hot summer months as swelling can stretch the skin and if you do not have good elasticity it may sag when you deswell?

If the smas loosens in 4 months time when the pds dissolves, then I have another 118 days left of being beautiful, ie until May 31 when the beauty spell breaks. lol. Let’s hope I get a bit longer out of this. Thus far £3500 for 120+120 days of beauty is £14 a day. Not bad but tough on the face to undergo two lifts under local and the healing process.


----------



## MissOrange

On the day of my surgery my face literally changed in 9 minutes as I sat in a warm consulting room. My fat cells shrunken and frozen in 2C blistery windy weather outside the clinic then reexpanded and recovered. I thought oh no my face is going from bad to good seconds before meeting Nick! I demonstrated laxity by pinching and pulling my face down. Phew and got my retightening op.

At least now I have discovered how to go from a bad face to a good face when my skin relaxes in 4-6 months by drinking warm drinks (cold diet coke drinks are out),keep my room heated and when outside in the cold wrap up with a scarf and hat to protect the facial fat cells. I can definitely live with the good face days so it is just avoiding things that shrink the fat like extreme cold, dehydration and ice cold soda drinks.

To think these selfies are taken 9 minutes apart, 10:34 and 10:43 am on January 31! Mystery solved!


----------



## Otto8

Gorgeous! And after the revision, I am sure you will look even more beautiful!

Happy healing!


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Gorgeous! And after the revision, I am sure you will look even more beautiful!
> 
> Happy healing!


That’s what I am thinking @Otto8 well at least I should look as beautiful. To deal with deswelling, I will be slowly gaining weight to replace the volume loss from deswelling so this should maintain the lift. Being anorexic on the day of the op, means the skin was tightened and trimmed at this weight and it will now be easier to gain weight. It will be a balance as I need to expand enough fat cells to maintain the lift by eating fats but not too much that it stretches and weighs down the skin again as it is the heavy fat that may lead to nasolabials, marionettes and jowls.


----------



## MissOrange

It’s day 4 and I took out my 6-0 running prolene suture so my face can heal faster as I have allergic contact dermatitis to permanent sutures. Fingers crossed the mole by the ear stays put!


----------



## MissOrange

Day 5. I applied arnica cream over my lower cheeks and under my jaw as I see a little bruising appearing. Today I took my last day of 20 mg of prednisolone to deswell. Here is a comparison of day 5‘s last year without pred vs this year with. If you are getting surgery that will make you swell up like a moon man face, then consider asking your GP or surgeon for a prescription for prednisolone 30 mg a day for 5 days. I am tiny so I took 20 mg a day.


----------



## Lien

Looking good, @MissOrange .  The advice about the steroids is excellent.  I wish I'd known that when I had my threadlifts.  My face was swollen for 3 months (yes, 3 months) and now the stretched skin is giving me wrinkles that I never had.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Looking good, @MissOrange .  The advice about the steroids is excellent.  I wish I'd known that when I had my threadlifts.  My face was swollen for 3 months (yes, 3 months) and now the stretched skin is giving me wrinkles that I never had.


Hi @Lien, I am really sorry you had to go through a whopping 3 months of facial swelling!

I made a b&a collage which best shows the tightening I had. With minimal postop swelling I hope my skin stays tight like this.


----------



## Rensera

Oh my god, you look so amazing! You really look like 20 or even younger now! 

Since you have so much experience I was wondering which procedures you'd recommend to your younger readers? What's something you'd recommend to someone on their 30s, 40s, 50s and when should one start with face lifts instead of trying expensive beauty treatments or creams that won't help at all. Would you mind to share your thoughts on that?


----------



## MissOrange

I am now one week post. My incisions are basically healed now so I keep them uncovered. I shall doll up with makeup and eyelashes on Feb 14 in another week’s time.

I have been reading up on smasectomy and it seems up to 3 cms of the smas muscle layer is cut away along with excess skin! This would most definitely create longevity as now both the sagging smas and the skin are trimmed, instead of sutures pulling up the excess smas and waiting for the sutures to weaken or dissolve and the smas layer to drop again. 

Now to find a surgeon in the UK or Korea who does smasectomy? Deep plane describes a method of undermining deeper to be able to pull up the smas easier but it does not including cutting away a strip of smas unless your surgeon specifically states it will include smas imbrication (smasectomy). This explains why some ladies who had deep plane FLs are now seeing laxity at 4-7 months and topping up with facial fillers.

I found a lady whose VR facelift showed zero sag at 11 months. She is extremely active and athletic at 56 which made me think, her facial muscles must be very toned. I cannot take up the outdoors sports she does, but what I can do is facial muscle exercises or face yoga to try to keep my smas muscle taut when the sutures weaken in 4 months time. During months 5 and 6 I did notice I had some good days and had been losing weight and adding strengthening exercises for the LAO muscle to lift the corners of my mouth. I am hoping I can avoid a third face operation in 4-6 months time by adding facial muscle exercises, else I will need to up my research and find a smasectomy surgeon who will trim away up to 3 cms of my loose smas muscle layer as I have already had 3.5 cms of skin now trimmed away on each side.


----------



## Lien

You look gorgeous, @MissOrange .  Your face is nice and taut and V-shaped again.  All the swelling seems to have gone down entirely.

I'd love to know which facial yoga you're gonna do.

Btw, I've been doing the "joker" exercises you mentioned a few pages back.  They seem to be helping with my marionette's lines but interestingly making my thin upper lip a little bit fuller.


----------



## MissOrange

Let this serve as a warning. Always try to find videos of patients without makeup and non-smiling at 4-6 months post. Never rely on ig afters with natural lifting smiles, filters, lighting and makeup at less than 4 months. We all look great with postop swelling adding volume and a lift. Here are the actual video screenshots from a Bray lady at 2 and 4 months post her deep plane. In 2021 he charged up to £27k. In 2022 he is charging up to £47k. Don't assume that if you pay more you are getting a better result.


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> You look gorgeous, @MissOrange .  Your face is nice and taut and V-shaped again.  All the swelling seems to have gone down entirely.
> 
> I'd love to know which facial yoga you're gonna do.
> 
> Btw, I've been doing the "joker" exercises you mentioned a few pages back.  They seem to be helping with my marionette's lines but interestingly making my thin upper lip a little bit fuller.


Hi @Lien, I was thinking back in my 40s I would lecture for up to 8 hours a day, smiling lots and really happy at my job or would talk to patients at least 2 hours a day. All that talking exercise must have kept my jaw tight! I also used to chew sugarfree wrigleys spearmint gum! Again more facial muscle exercises without even knowing. Then when I retired I found I stopped talking. I now sit in silence watching netflix for hours or posting online. My face never moves so my facial muscles are close to nonexistent.

I will do the joker smiling exercise in the car and pull down on the DAO muscle as I force a wide smile at home. This will strengthen the LAO muscle. I need to go back to chewing gum! lol. But the sugarfree gums have artificial sweeteners so I need to find another sweet or candy I can chew or suck that is low in calories and has no sweetener. By keeping the lower face muscles active by talking, chewing or eating, it should strengthen the facial muscles and tighten the smas I hope. Maybe I should talk to my dog for 8 hours a day! lol.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Lien, I was thinking back in my 40s I would lecture for up to 8 hours a day, smiling lots and really happy at my job or would talk to patients at least 2 hours a day. All that talking exercise must have kept my jaw tight! I also used to chew sugarfree wrigleys spearmint gum! Again more facial muscle exercises without even knowing. Then when I retired I found I stopped talking. I now sit in silence watching netflix for hours or posting online. My face never moves so my facial muscles are close to nonexistent.
> 
> I will do the joker smiling exercise in the car and pull down on the DAO muscle as I force a wide smile at home. This will strengthen the LAO muscle. I need to go back to chewing gum! lol. But the sugarfree gums have artificial sweeteners so I need to find another sweet or candy I can chew or suck that is low in calories and has no sweetener. By keeping the lower face muscles active by talking, chewing or eating, it should strengthen the facial muscles and tighten the smas I hope. Maybe I should talk to my dog for 8 hours a day! lol.



Oh wow.

It is true what the joker smiling exercise is doing!  

I am super happy my upper lip is no longer so depressingly thin!!

Noted about chewing some gum or low-calorie sweets.  Yeah, artificial sweeteners are no good.

I talk to my cats all the time, but not for 8 hours a day, hahaha.


----------



## MissOrange

.


----------



## astrid0216

I think the lady will be sad to see herself being flagged in this collage and thread. I don’t think she has outrightly expressed any dissatisfaction herself so far... And to be fair he does have other patients with more dramatic results (ig face_n_lip_lou). So if the same surgeon can perform both highly dramatic and less dramatic results, what is the variable here...



MissOrange said:


> Arrogant Kent surgeon Bray insulted all facelift surgeons who charge less than him on his IG comparing his work to Mona Lisa and everyone else's to a cartoon drawing. He currently charges £47k which makes him the most expensive FL/NL surgeon in the uk and he is not even board certified in plastic surgery according to the GMC medical register. This is a huge markup as the going price for deep plane FL/NLs in London is £13-16k. So I did a funny collage comparing Nick's £3500 cheapest in the UK facelift (retightened for free) to Bray's Sept 2021 deep plane facelift/necklift lady who posted this ig video (screenshot) 4 months post. I must say he has not achieved any similarity to Mona Lisa in his patient.
> 
> View attachment 5321771
> 
> 
> View attachment 5321772


----------



## MissOrange

Rensera said:


> Oh my god, you look so amazing! You really look like 20 or even younger now!
> 
> Since you have so much experience I was wondering which procedures you'd recommend to your younger readers? What's something you'd recommend to someone on their 30s, 40s, 50s and when should one start with face lifts instead of trying expensive beauty treatments or creams that won't help at all. Would you mind to share your thoughts on that?


Hi @Rensera,

I started with botox and fillers in my 40s. Then added facial fat graft 50-53 to replace lost volume due to menopause. Then added a facelift at age 55 due to sagging skin and loss of collagen. It depends on when you start showing signs of ageing. If a sun worshipper, then start botox and fillers in one’s 30s. If you have bone contouring surgery, then you may need to have a facelift much sooner.


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange,  Do you think botox around the jaw will help with the shape and slim down the jawline?  

Thank you for your great insight and advice, as always.


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange,  Do you think botox around the jaw will help with the shape and slim down the jawline?
> 
> Thank you for your great insight and advice, as always.



I am not @MissOrange (obviously, haha).  But I wanted to chime in and say that I've had this and it absolutely does NOT work!


----------



## Otto8

Thank you so much, @Lien. 

I only do botox to the area between my eyebrows, to take away the strain of the eyes always frowning. 

I must go for a fat transfer shortly and have a lipo along with it.  The area around the eyes is sinking and the laughter lines are showing.  Therefore,  maintenance would do well.  I am fat in hidden areas.  

Unfortunately, I don't think Mr. Rhodes does fat transfers.


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> Thank you so much, @Lien.
> 
> I only do botox to the area between my eyebrows, to take away the strain of the eyes always frowning.
> 
> I must go for a fat transfer shortly and have a lipo along with it.  The area around the eyes is sinking and the laughter lines are showing.  Therefore,  maintenance would do well.  I am fat in hidden areas.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think Mr. Rhodes does fat transfers.



I too need to do fat transfer to my face and lipo on my tummy & flanks (for a 2nd fat transfer to my boobs).

I believe @MissOrange mentioned another surgeon in the UK who does fat transfer to the face.  It's a few pages back.


----------



## MissOrange

Day 10 and am in love with my side profiles!


----------



## Lien

Gorgeous, @MissOrange .


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange, do you know a UK surgeon who does Lipo and fat transfer to the eye area?  

Thank you.  

And how gorgeous you look!


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> I too need to do fat transfer to my face and lipo on my tummy & flanks (for a 2nd fat transfer to my boobs).
> 
> I believe @MissOrange mentioned another surgeon in the UK who does fat transfer to the face.  It's a few pages back.



Yeah, me too.  Fat travels when you age.  Flanks and love-handle fat.  But people think I am thin!

I really only know Mr. Jag Chana who does the lipo and fat transfer and then he also does the endoscopic brow lift.

And I recall Mr. Chana saying that fat transfer may need a top-up and he would do the revision for free.   Perhaps because he was wanting to perform Vaser-lipo, which may not be fresh fat (cultivated from lipo) but liquified fat. 

 In any case, I wish to avoid revisions and fat migration,  so I had better ask @MissOrange.

Thank you so much.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange, do you know a UK surgeon who does Lipo and fat transfer to the eye area?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> And how gorgeous you look!


Sadly no. I would only trust Dr Hyoseok Seo at Machimpyo or Dr Hong at Fresh in Korea. I had Dr Seo when he was at MVP. Facial FT is a unique skill and can go very wrong with lumps, pillow face, fat necrosis, overfilled cheeks, migrating fat etc. It is too high risk. Needs to be done where they do loads of it....Korea. Dr Seo charges 2.5 million or £2k for full face FT (2020 price).


----------



## Lien

@MissOrange, wow, that's amazing.  Thank you for the information.

Apologies for my mistake.  I thought you'd mentioned it earlier.  I shall definitely seek out these surgeons in Korea.


----------



## MissOrange

It is so important one does not select a surgeon solely based on before and after photos on IG. Try to find video footage without makeup and filters. Here is an example of a DB patient who had a deep plane FL/NL in September 2021. From DB's 1 month after smiling natural lift selfie one might think amazing and well worth up to £27k. But if you look at her IG videos, one sees the true results which makes me doubt whether his DPs are with smasectomy based on the laxity.

Some surgeons seem to sell DPs as lasting up to 15 years or as the only facelift you may need. Remember it is smasectomy that is the gold standard...ie a portion of the smas needs to be cut out too.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Yeah, me too.  Fat travels when you age.  Flanks and love-handle fat.  But people think I am thin!
> 
> I really only know Mr. Jag Chana who does the lipo and fat transfer and then he also does the endoscopic brow lift.
> 
> And I recall Mr. Chana saying that fat transfer may need a top-up and he would do the revision for free.   Perhaps because he was wanting to perform Vaser-lipo, which may not be fresh fat (cultivated from lipo) but liquified fat.
> 
> In any case, I wish to avoid revisions and fat migration,  so I had better ask @MissOrange.
> 
> Thank you so much.


Hi @Otto8 I agree as we age body fat distribution changes and we develop more apple or pear body shapes. This is when we can use the fat in the belly and hips to put anywhere else or in my case my breasts. Don't waste the fat with liposuction. Have it injected elsewhere as fat is associated with youth in the right places.


----------



## MissOrange

It is so important to check your surgeon's revision policy in his or her terms and conditions on the website. Some say a complaint has to be made within 6 months and others say a year. Some may say they have a 1% revision rate because they refuse ladies revision or make them pay for a more extensive procedure which then is not classified as a revision.

I am extremely grateful to Nick my facelift surgeon as he said he retightened my face as even a 10% improvement makes all the difference and it has! Another lady with a different surgeon was told to pay him more for his DP when her smas plication failed at 1-2 years and another lady was initially offered a free DP in 6 months after her smas plication showed laxity at 4 months but in person he took the offer off the table and blamed her own anatomy! A third lady is writing a complaint letter to try to get a partial refund when her lower face sagged at 6 months post a DP as she does not want revision with the same surgeon.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a pic summary of my FL journey from May 2021. I think now that I have had a total of 7 cms of skin excised, as long as I keep warm to make my fat cells happy and not freeze them in 2C weather and as long as I keep up with my smiling exercises I may be done with facelifts for a while! Fingers crossed. The bottom 2 are moments before getting my face retightened and then 10 days after. Nick could have refused me as it looks okay but he was happy to improve even by 10%. I am so pleased I also solved the good vs bad day mystery....temperature the fat cells are exposed to!!


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> @MissOrange, wow, that's amazing.  Thank you for the information.
> 
> Apologies for my mistake.  I thought you'd mentioned it earlier.  I shall definitely seek out these surgeons in Korea.



Me too.  I thought it was David Floyd, but then I see he only does Lipo and focuses on body procedures, apart from the Rhinoplasty.

For now, I am going to research local options.


----------



## Otto8

Oh my goodness, I was going through Mr Rhodes' price list and he does this:




So I think the fat redrape is a term for fat transfer.

And oh my goodness, he does a lateral browlift too!

You only have to look at his price list to see what he does.

It is not clear on his main website. 

   That's great!


----------



## MissOrange

For ladies considering a facelift, print this off and find a surgeon who does the bottom option smasectomy for longevity as the top option smas plication seems to sag at 4-6 months when the sutures dissolve or weaken.


----------



## MissOrange

Omg, Dr Dongman Park does smasectomy and uses 3-0 pds. Perfect!!! I am flying to Korea when this retightening sags to have a FL with Dr Park!


----------



## HopefulGB

MissOrange said:


> Omg, Dr Dongman Park does smasectomy and uses 3-0 pds. Perfect!!! I am flying to Korea when this retightening sags to have a FL with Dr Park!



I’m definitely going to Dr. Dongman Park as well especially since the mandatory quarantine has been reduced to 7 days in South Korea!!


----------



## Lien

Me three!!


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange , may I ask, with menopause, what sort of HRT did you undertake? 

 Not just surgery nips and tucks here and there, but was there a particular type of HRT you used? 

 Or did you eschew HRT for natural remedies, such as taking yoga, drinking soya milk, and taking black cohosh?  

Thank you so much!


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange , may I ask, with menopause, what sort of HRT did you undertake?
> 
> Not just surgery nips and tucks here and there, but was there a particular type of HRT you used?
> 
> Or did you eschew HRT for natural remedies, such as taking yoga, drinking soya milk, and taking black cohosh?
> 
> Thank you so much!


Hi @Otto8, aargh they call it the “menoface” lol…

No I did not take any HRT. Too scared. Too many British ladies get breast cancer and not sure why.

A lady who had breast cancer stopped me putting soya milk in my coffe in Waitrose saying it caused her cancer! I switched to oat milk. 

I don’t do yoga. Maybe I should. I paid £20 to do this learn how to do splits ad on IG and ended up limping! lol.

I suffer from very early morning awakenings after menopause but then again I fall asleep by 8 pm! lol.

Growing old is really foreign to me. I do notice my brain is not as sharp as it was when I was in my 20s but I doubt my daughters will give me a blood transfusion. lol.


----------



## MissOrange

HopefulGB said:


> I’m definitely going to Dr. Dongman Park as well especially since the mandatory quarantine has been reduced to 7 days in South Korea!!


Uhoh, just saw the 2022 video again on IG. I spy nasolabials!


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Otto8, aargh they call it the “menoface” lol…
> 
> No I did not take any HRT. Too scared. Too many British ladies get breast cancer and not sure why.
> 
> A lady who had breast cancer stopped me putting soya milk in my coffe in Waitrose saying it caused her cancer! I switched to oat milk.
> 
> I don’t do yoga. Maybe I should. I paid £20 to do this learn how to do splits ad on IG and ended up limping! lol.
> 
> I suffer from very early morning awakenings after menopause but then again I fall asleep by 8 pm! lol.
> 
> Growing old is really foreign to me. I do notice my brain is not as sharp as it was when I was in my 20s but I doubt my daughters will give me a blood transfusion. lol.



Oh, thank you so much.  I have not yet hit menopause.  Just wondering what best to do.  

If you have advice, that would be great.  Thank you.


----------



## MissOrange

2 weeks postop and I looked fab for Valentine's day. Now fingers crossed I keep my tighter face after 14 more weeks.


----------



## anthonyphua

Just a quick shoutout to everyone here. Thank you for the pics & very useful information. I enjoy reading through the posts.

I'm a 45 year old Asian guy and I'm researching for more information on facelifts.

Sadly, most websites only have before and after photos of ladies in their late 50s doing facelift (other than MissOrange who looks really good post facelift!).

To help others in the same boat as me (who may be lurking in the forum), I will check with ASPS and Bio for more information and update this post again.


----------



## MissOrange

anthonyphua said:


> Just a quick shoutout to everyone here. Thank you for the pics & very useful information. I enjoy reading through the posts.
> 
> I'm a 45 year old Asian guy and I'm researching for more information on facelifts.
> 
> Sadly, most websites only have before and after photos of ladies in their late 50s doing facelift (other than MissOrange who looks really good post facelift!).
> 
> To help others in the same boat as me (who may be lurking in the forum), I will check with ASPS and Bio for more information and update this post again.


Hi @anthonyphua,

You made me chuckle. I am almost 56 so that makes me one of the ladies in their late 50s posting my before and after facelift result. My videos are on my IG.

Good luck with your research on ASPS and Bio. I look forward to reading what you write.

I would say, try to find video footage of the patient and not just rely on selfies that can be filtered. And remember assess results after 4-6 months.

Although Dr Park does smasectomy, the video of his lady from Turkey at 1 year and 3 months does not look as good as the still after photo. Judge for yourself. I would expect longterm perfection for $25k, his 2022 price.


----------



## Gats

anthonyphua said:


> Just a quick shoutout to everyone here. Thank you for the pics & very useful information. I enjoy reading through the posts.
> 
> I'm a 45 year old Asian guy and I'm researching for more information on facelifts.
> 
> Sadly, most websites only have before and after photos of ladies in their late 50s doing facelift (other than MissOrange who looks really good post facelift!).
> 
> To help others in the same boat as me (who may be lurking in the forum), I will check with ASPS and Bio for more information and update this post again.



Aside from age I wonder if the same technique they are using on ladies would be appropriate for men since you don't want to feminize your features. You should start a thread on male facelifts to help you collect and share your findings.


----------



## MissOrange

I found this on IG and it explains what happens when we have too much filler or fat in the face! Both fat and filler can weigh down the face! The fat in the cheeks then creates nasolabials and drags the face downwards and creates downturning lip corners and jowls. This made me reflect on why I had jowls and marionettes in December 2021 and why losing 5 lbs made the jowl and marionettes disappear by January 20, 2022. I am extremely hopeful that the retightening of VR macs lift will hold as I can maintain my weight at 95 lbs and saw more good days in mid Jan weighing 93-95 lbs than I did in December weighing 98-100 lbs. This explains why an athlete with extremely low fat has zero sag 11 months post her VR facelift! I think the VR vertical high suspension smas macs lift is appropriate for slender ladies whose main concern is loose skin and have either more muscle than fat or who are naturally thin with low body fat weight as the emphasis is more on loose skin excision. For ladies with heavier faces due to fat, full smasectomy facelifts with neck lipo may be more appropriate. Namu clinic and View clinics in Korea even suggested accusculpt to reduce cheek fat with their facelifts. For bargain hunters like myself, this spells great news as I have spent £3495 and not £14k or £27k to achieve the same results and I think I have now figured out how to have good days and not get bad sag days.


----------



## MissOrange

This People article made me realise why postmenopause facial fat cells respond badly to freezing and can cause the facial skin to sag like it did when I stood outside in 2C weather last month. https://people.com/style/linda-evan...ince-fat-freezing-nightmare-people-exclusive/ As I have a face full of fat graft, I need to be very cautious of freezing weather to prevent bad sag face days. Her face reminds me of what my face looked like on bad sag face days.


----------



## Otto8

Beautiful Linda Evangelista!  Look at those gorgeous eyes!

I wish her well and I hope she wins her lawsuit against the Coolscuplting guys.  

It requires a lot of strength and stamina to even begin a lawsuit.


----------



## MissOrange

Okay I have been researching which facelift surgeons give postop steroids to reduce facial swelling and which do not. Jacono in NYC gives steroids and a second round if still swollen after a week. Karam does not give postop steroids. Bray gives postop steroids. My theory is if one has thin skin then stretching it with postop swelling may lead to laxity once the swelling has gone. I have seen this even with my last fat graft. This time I took 4 days of steroids after my facelift retightening so am hoping I do not get laxity at 4 months. 13 weeks to go to find out if my theory holds. Doing a quick survey in a US FL FB group, it seems the majority of surgeons in the US give postop steroids but a surgeon in California and Mexico do not.

I have now confirmed a UK facelift surgeon in Manchester who does lateral smasectomy fl/nl for £11,990-£13,990 so I will not be flying to Korea as his prices will be less than that of Dr Park who now charges $25,000 (£18,000). I shall know by May 31-July 31 if trimming 7 cms of skin in total, taking steroids so I had minimal postop swelling and keeping my weight 95 lbs or lower, will be enough to hold off on paying for a smasectomy. That said each year the prices go up and if the smasectomy lasts 5 years or more, then the sooner the better? I have seen a before and after of a patient of his at 6 years post!


----------



## MissOrange

Update to my research on steroids. Dr Karam does give steroids but intraop as IV dexamethasone to reduce postop swelling! Dr Talei prescribes a postop steroid pack. And Dr Jacono gives up to 2 rounds of postop steroids if needed. That means the BIG 3 FL surgeons in the US all give steroids to reduce skin stretching from postop swelling!!!

I think for those getting facial fat transfer a course of postop oral pred or iv dex may also help.


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> I found this on IG and it explains what happens when we have too much filler or fat in the face! Both fat and filler can weigh down the face! The fat in the cheeks then creates nasolabials and drags the face downwards and creates downturning lip corners and jowls. This made me reflect on why I had jowls and marionettes in December 2021 and why losing 5 lbs made the jowl and marionettes disappear by January 20, 2022. I am extremely hopeful that the retightening of VR macs lift will hold as I can maintain my weight at 95 lbs and saw more good days in mid Jan weighing 93-95 lbs than I did in December weighing 98-100 lbs. This explains why an athlete with extremely low fat has zero sag 11 months post her VR facelift! I think the VR vertical high suspension smas macs lift is appropriate for slender ladies whose main concern is loose skin and have either more muscle than fat or who are naturally thin with low body fat weight as the emphasis is more on loose skin excision. For ladies with heavier faces due to fat, full smasectomy facelifts with neck lipo may be more appropriate. Namu clinic and View clinics in Korea even suggested accusculpt to reduce cheek fat with their facelifts. For bargain hunters like myself, this spells great news as I have spent £3495 and not £14k or £27k to achieve the same results and I think I have now figured out how to have good days and not get bad sag days.
> 
> View attachment 5330479
> 
> 
> View attachment 5330480



This is true in my case.  I have pretty bad marionette lines.

I am scared though of having my fillers dissolved because I am seem to be allergic/ reacting to anything that's put into my body.

And fillers really do not get re-absorbed into your body.  They stay!! My right cheek is more pillow-y than my left cuz i had more filler there (was injected into the area under my right eye since my hollowness there is worse).  But the filler then migrated from under my right eye to my right cheek!  The fillers are palpable under my skin when I touch them with my hands.


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> This is true in my case.  I have pretty bad marionette lines.
> 
> I am scared though of having my fillers dissolved because I am seem to be allergic/ reacting to anything that's put into my body.
> 
> And fillers really do not get re-absorbed into your body.  They stay!! My right cheek is more pillow-y than my left cuz i had more filler there (was injected into the area under my right eye since my hollowness there is worse).  But the filler then migrated from under my right eye to my right cheek!  The fillers are palpable under my skin when I touch them with my hands.



I have not tried other fillers but wow!  The doctor here told me it was ok, I should try it.  I have not.

Further research about Profhilo, which I have tried: 









						Ongoing Edema from Profhilo
					

I had profhilo 2 sessions over 12 months ago and have been left with ongoing malar edema from this! An ultrasound scan has also showed the profhilo is...




					www.realself.com
				




ok.....I think I am stopping my Profhilo session until I see Mr Rhodes.


----------



## Otto8

And this is interesting about HRT, although, well, you know, it is from The Daily Mail and may not be that reliable.  

They publish all kinds of nonsense sometimes. 









						HRT could help your cells to age more slowly, study shows
					

Around one in seven women going through the menopause in England are believed to be on HRT, which can help to relieve symptoms such as hot flushes, night sweats and depression.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> I have not tried other fillers but wow!  The doctor here told me it was ok, I should try it.  I have not.
> 
> Further research about Profhilo, which I have tried:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ongoing Edema from Profhilo
> 
> 
> I had profhilo 2 sessions over 12 months ago and have been left with ongoing malar edema from this! An ultrasound scan has also showed the profhilo is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.realself.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok.....I think I am stopping my Profhilo session until I see Mr Rhodes.



I am not surprised about Profhilo.


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> I am not surprised about Profhilo.



They say Profhilo is not a filler etc etc.  It can only stimulate collagen and elastin. 

But.  It is hyaluronic acid.  And what does it do ?  I don't have clear answers from what I can gather online.

I am stopping because......my face looks more U-shaped and fat now! And I have not gained weight!  

I have only had about three sessions of Profhilo. So better get off the merry-go-round now. 

Anyway, I think I should stop these treatments for a bit until I see Mr Rhodes in August (but hoping to get a cancellation appointment before that).    

I will have botox in May and I will only have it between the eyebrows and on the ends of the eyebrows for a slight lift.  Hold it off as much as possible.  And that's it.  

Thank you @Lien for the red flag.  I have never looked into it until I came on to this forum and read your experience.


----------



## Fortunecat

I was watching a youtube video by a China plastic surgeon. He said all those injectibles to make the skin smoother, brighter etc, contains fillers to some degree. He recommended that the maximum injectibles that one can do, is only 2 times. Any more than that, when one starts to age, they will start to realise that their face has "stiffened" in a way and become very unnatural when they smile or talk. Or they might feel that their face sagged more than it should be etc.


----------



## MissOrange

Today my surgeon got back to me and I found out I got smas plication in my facial retightening! Wow! From macs suspension to smas plication with 3-0 pds. He normally does his VR with permanent ethibond sutures but had to use long acting dissolvable 3-0 pds on me due to my contact dermatitis. Still hoping my face holds up in 3 more months. I’ll do more selfies this weekend.

I was chatting with a British lady who had skin laxity post DP at 6 months by the surgeon who has been suspended a year by the GMC regulator and it turns out that not only was she not prescribed postop steroids but also told not to wear head compression garments! Ladies make sure you get both postop steroids to prevent facial swelling and skin stretching and wear your compression garments day and night for the first week!


----------



## Gats

@MissOrange, based on this, do you think requesting postop steroids is a must for any procedure that causes facial swelling to avoid skin stretching? I know certain procedures like fat grafting can cause significant swelling. I'm curious why steroids aren't a standard postop rx to combat it for such procedures, are there downsides to using them and that's why some docs don't rx them? Thanks.


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> They say Profhilo is not a filler etc etc.  It can only stimulate collagen and elastin.
> 
> But.  It is hyaluronic acid.  And what does it do ?  I don't have clear answers from what I can gather online.
> 
> I am stopping because......*my face looks more U-shaped and fat now*! And I have not gained weight!
> 
> I have only had about three sessions of Profhilo. So better get off the merry-go-round now.
> 
> Anyway, I think I should stop these treatments for a bit until I see Mr Rhodes in August (but hoping to get a cancellation appointment before that).
> 
> I will have botox in May and I will only have it between the eyebrows and on the ends of the eyebrows for a slight lift.  Hold it off as much as possible.  And that's it.
> 
> Thank you @Lien for the red flag.  I have never looked into it until I came on to this forum and read your experience.



That's how my face is now.  And I had a nice oval-shaped face, almost my entire life except for the last few years.

My jowls are bad too, no doubt because of the fillers injected into my nasolabial lines.

I am a strong opponent of Botox. I've had a lot of health issues cuz of them.


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> That's how my face is now.  And I had a nice oval-shaped face, almost my entire life except for the last few years.
> 
> My jowls are bad too, no doubt because of the fillers injected into my nasolabial lines.
> 
> I am a strong opponent of Botox. I've had a lot of health issues cuz of them.



Yeah, I stop now.  Me too.  My face was always oval.  I noticed it rounder recently.    

I was reading last night.  Profhilo is hyaluronic acid. There is no mention of Profhilo metabolising.   

In fact, the write-up states it lasts for years to keep the skin elastic.......which is meant to sell the product.  But I read it differently of course, now, with hindsight. 

Mine is not lumpy.  I think because Profhilo spreads out and moves.......to the areas you most do not wish for it to go.  I think this is trickier than Restylane in that it is not lumps, but a liquid that has spread and integrated itself into the underlayers of the skin. 

I will read up more this evening when I have time.

@Lien, what health issues have you had with Botox?  If it is a private issue, you don't have to reply.  I completely understand and wish you well.


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> Yeah, I stop now.  Me too.  My face was always oval.  I noticed it rounder recently.
> 
> I was reading last night.  Profhilo is hyaluronic acid. There is no mention of Profhilo metabolising.
> 
> In fact, the write-up states it lasts for years to keep the skin elastic.......which is meant to sell the product.  But I read it differently of course, now, with hindsight.
> 
> Mine is not lumpy.  I think because Profhilo spreads out and moves.......to the areas you most do not wish for it to go.  I think this is trickier than Restylane in that it is not lumps, but a liquid that has spread and integrated itself into the underlayers of the skin.
> 
> I will read up more this evening when I have time.
> 
> @Lien, what health issues have you had with Botox?  If it is a private issue, you don't have to reply.  I completely understand and wish you well.



Let me send you a PM, in a bit.


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> Let me send you a PM, in a bit.



No no, don't.  I did not mean to be so nosy.  

I sincerely wish you well.  

Anyways, I will go and see Mr Rhodes in August.  He had a cancellation but I cannot do that date.   

August it is.  Surgery in October, I think.  

I will pm you privately my post-op pictures.  

I am not as brave as @MissOrange.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Today my surgeon got back to me and I found out I got smas plication in my facial retightening! Wow! From macs suspension to smas plication with 3-0 pds. He normally does his VR with permanent ethibond sutures but had to use long acting dissolvable 3-0 pds on me due to my contact dermatitis. Still hoping my face holds up in 3 more months. I’ll do more selfies this weekend.
> 
> I was chatting with a British lady who had skin laxity post DP at 6 months by the surgeon who has been suspended a year by the GMC regulator and it turns out that not only was she not prescribed postop steroids but also told not to wear head compression garments! Ladies make sure you get both postop steroids to prevent facial swelling and skin stretching and wear your compression garments day and night for the first week!



@MissOrange,  Please can you explain why 3-0 pds are better?  You mention it with Dr Dongman Park as well. 

I thought the VR facelift was smas plication. Is there a difference?

Thank you.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange,  Please can you explain why 3-0 pds are better?  You mention it with Dr Dongman Park as well.
> 
> I thought the VR facelift was smas plication. Is there a difference?
> 
> Thank you.


3-0 is the thickness of the suture. PDS is the longest lasting dissolvable suture so it lasts long enough for the 2 cut ends of the smas to close and heal.

The VR is like a macs suspension lift. Smas plication is folding up the excess smas and then suturing in place which is normally part of a full facelift. Both have limited longevity so I shall wait and see how long the latter now lasts.


----------



## MissOrange

I am now 4 weeks post retightening and all is well although I did get questioned when using my bank card as they thought it was my mother’s and I was a teen kid! lol. Don’t blame them. I weigh 93 lbs, BMI 17.6 and am wearing a 10 yo boy’s ralph lauren shirt! I forgot I am in a hypermetabolic catabolic state post surgery that may last up to 3 months which means I cannot gain weight no matter how much I eat.


----------



## catlover6

@MissOrange I am in the early days of researching surgeons in the UK, so have been learning quite a lot from your forum posts about the type of facelifts.
Would you not really recommend the smasplication for longevity, as I am wanting the procedure to last me at least 8-10 years. I have researched a few surgeons who I think do smasectomy, so wondering whether to just go with that instead.
You do look great and Dr Nick Rhodes isn’t too far from me, but I don’t want to have it redone in a year or so. Does he have a long waiting list for appointments/surgery?


----------



## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> @MissOrange I am in the early days of researching surgeons in the UK, so have been learning quite a lot from your forum posts about the type of facelifts.
> Would you not really recommend the smasplication for longevity, as I am wanting the procedure to last me at least 8-10 years. I have researched a few surgeons who I think do smasectomy, so wondering whether to just go with that instead.
> You do look great and Dr Nick Rhodes isn’t too far from me, but I don’t want to have it redone in a year or so. Does he have a long waiting list for appointments/surgery?


Hi @catlover6 many British ladies cannot afford smasectomy or deep plane FL/NLs and can only afford a macs or a smas plication. No, it will definitely not last 8-10 years in my opinion after a series of British ladies have been sending me their 4-6 month postop fails for macs, smas plication and even deep plane.

I think unless the smas layer is trimmed by 2-3 cms with smasectomy, the facelift cannot last as the excess smas layer with its fat and muscle has a high chance of dropping. I have felt that sensation when the smas dropped for me in December and I had that gut wrenching feeling that the lift was over.

Here is a diagram from Dr Dongman Park. Think of the red line as the sagging smas and the green line as the sagging skin. Unless both are trimmed, facelifts may sag within 4 months to 2 years. I have had 7-8 cms of loose skin trimmed (3.5-4 cms on each side in 2 FLs), ie the green lines. I have not had any smas layer trimmed. The questions remains how long will my smas plication last as the green line has now been trimmed to that of a 20 year old face but the excess smas layer remains in my face folded over until the 3-0 sutures dissolve.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Hi @catlover6 many British ladies cannot afford smasectomy or deep plane FL/NLs and can only afford a macs or a smas plication. No, it will definitely not last 8-10 years in my opinion after a series of British ladies have been sending me their 4-6 month postop fails for macs, smas plication and even deep plane.
> 
> I think unless the smas layer is trimmed by 2-3 cms with smasectomy, the facelift cannot last as the excess smas layer with its fat and muscle has a high chance of dropping. I have felt that sensation when the smas dropped for me in December and I had that gut wrenching feeling that the lift was over.
> 
> Here is a diagram from Dr Dongman Park. Think of the red line as the sagging smas and the green line as the sagging skin. Unless both are trimmed, facelifts may sag within 4 months to 2 years. I have had 7-8 cms of loose skin trimmed (3.5-4 cms on each side in 2 FLs), ie the green lines. I have not had any smas layer trimmed. The questions remains how long will my smas plication last as the green line has now been trimmed to that of a 20 year old face but the excess smas layer remains in my face folded over until the 3-0 sutures dissolve.
> 
> View attachment 5340110




It is understanding which FL is the gold standard.

There is a plethora of confusing information out there, and if you don't know, you end up getting the bog-standard FL the surgeon offers or specialises in.  Certainly, when I went to see a consultant two years ago, before Covid, I was under the impression all FLs were the same, and that he is a good surgeon, so he would perform the right and best procedure.  And he was not cheap either.    

Because during your £250 consultation, the consultant will not tell you, unless you ask. 
And you can only ask if you know.   And you can only understand the nuances if you are aware.

That is the first hurdle.  Knowing what the surgeon is going on about and know what questions to ask.  

Then the second hurdle is finding the correct and skilled surgeon.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> It is understanding which FL is the gold standard.
> 
> There is a plethora of confusing information out there, and if you don't know, you end up getting the bog-standard FL the surgeon offers or specialises in.  Certainly, when I went to see a consultant two years ago, before Covid, I was under the impression all FLs were the same, and that he is a good surgeon, so he would perform the right and best procedure.  And he was not cheap either.
> 
> Because during your £250 consultation, the consultant will not tell you, unless you ask.
> And you can only ask if you know.   And you can only understand the nuances if you are aware.
> 
> That is the first hurdle.  Knowing what the surgeon is going on about and know what questions to ask.
> 
> Then the second hurdle is finding the correct and skilled surgeon.


Precisely @Otto8 none of these surgeons will educate you on the best facelift as it is easier for them to do smas plication on everyone or double their prices and do a sub smas lift and call it deep plane. Not one of them will discuss smasectomy as this is the most difficult to perform in my opinion and who wants a patient to have a facelift that lasts for several years when they can make more money charging for revisions.

I learned there is yet another type of smas lift called a triple C smas plication! It is as it sounds, rolling up the excess smas and suturing it in 3 rows! See how they will do anything but trim out the excess smas? Dr Kevin Sadati performs this but his website has a gallery full of smiling afters at 2 months! We know facelifts may sag at 4-6 months and that smiling creates a natural lift!

I think we have to add to the list of questions what the revision policy is. Thus far a patient of Bray’s was refused a smas revision and only offered a DP if she paid for it and a patient of Macquillan was denied a smas plication revision allegedly using the excuse that he didn’t want to operate on scar tissue. She got a second opinion but the second surgeon will not do a revision for 2 years! If the majority of facelifts sag at 4-6 months, then it is imperative one finds a surgeon who includes free revisions within a year else one will end up going back to botox and fillers until another surgeon agrees to do a revision at vast cost!


----------



## catlover6

MissOrange said:


> Hi @catlover6 many British ladies cannot afford smasectomy or deep plane FL/NLs and can only afford a macs or a smas plication. No, it will definitely not last 8-10 years in my opinion after a series of British ladies have been sending me their 4-6 month postop fails for macs, smas plication and even deep plane.
> 
> I think unless the smas layer is trimmed by 2-3 cms with smasectomy, the facelift cannot last as the excess smas layer with its fat and muscle has a high chance of dropping. I have felt that sensation when the smas dropped for me in December and I had that gut wrenching feeling that the lift was over.
> 
> Here is a diagram from Dr Dongman Park. Think of the red line as the sagging smas and the green line as the sagging skin. Unless both are trimmed, facelifts may sag within 4 months to 2 years. I have had 7-8 cms of loose skin trimmed (3.5-4 cms on each side in 2 FLs), ie the green lines. I have not had any smas layer trimmed. The questions remains how long will my smas plication last as the green line has now been trimmed to that of a 20 year old face but the excess smas layer remains in my face folded over until the 3-0 sutures dissolve.
> 
> View attachment 5340110


Thankyou for the explanation that’s helpful. Yes I agree it is expensive to have an smasectomy, but then I was thinking if I had to have the smasplication/macs redone every 2 years, or so then it would work out more expensive in the long run and to be honest I can’t afford £4000+ every 2 years.
I understand from my research that not that many surgeons can do the more complicated facelifts as there is more skill involved, as most seem to just do a macs type lift. I have had a quote from one surgeon but it was about £15000, which is way above my budget. I was hoping to find a surgeon who can do it for under £8000 but maybe that’s wishful thinking. I also would like, if possible to have it done under local and not general, so trying to find someone that can do that.
I was just reading about a surgeon that says all the lifts, even the smasectomy, don’t last and he has stopped doing them now and only does a high lamellar smas lift. You might have read it, but if not I can post it on here if you like.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Precisely @Otto8 none of these surgeons will educate you on the best facelift as it is easier for them to do smas plication on everyone or double their prices and do a sub smas lift and call it deep plane. Not one of them will discuss smasectomy as this is the most difficult to perform in my opinion and who wants a patient to have a facelift that lasts for several years when they can make more money charging for revisions.
> 
> I learned there is yet another type of smas lift called a triple C smas plication! It is as it sounds, rolling up the excess smas and suturing it in 3 rows! See how they will do anything but trim out the excess smas? Dr Kevin Sadati performs this but his website has a gallery full of smiling afters at 2 months! We know facelifts may sag at 4-6 months and that smiling creates a natural lift!
> 
> I think we have to add to the list of questions what the revision policy is. Thus far a patient of Bray’s was refused a smas revision and only offered a DP if she paid for it and a patient of Macquillan was denied a smas plication revision allegedly using the excuse that he didn’t want to operate on scar tissue. She got a second opinion but the second surgeon will not do a revision for 2 years! If the majority of facelifts sag at 4-6 months, then it is imperative one finds a surgeon who includes free revisions within a year else one will end up going back to botox and fillers until another surgeon agrees to do a revision at vast cost!



I believe consumer laws apply.  After all, if you pay with a credit card, under Section 75 of the Consumer Rights Act, you have a time limit of 6 years to claim for a revision.  Performance was substandard.  The lift dropped after 4 to 6 months, so yes, I would, if the consultant remained adamant he would not offer a revision after reasonable discussion, pursue it with a letter legally.

So:

1. I will pay with a credit card

2. I will ask about techniques and longevity.

3.  I will ask why that particular technique the surgeon has chosen would fit me and check expectations.    In any case, I don't want to shell out for surgery every year or two years, or even four!

4.  I will ask about their revision policy.

But I think paying with a credit card could provide an additional safeguard, even if you have signed many forms.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> I believe consumer laws apply.  After all, if you pay with a credit card, under Section 75 of the Consumer Rights Act, you have a time limit of 6 years to claim for a revision.  Performance was substandard.  The lift dropped after 4 to 6 months, so yes, I would, if the consultant remained adamant he would not offer a revision after reasonable discussion, pursue it with a letter legally.
> 
> So:
> 
> 1. I will pay with a credit card
> 
> 2. I will ask about techniques and longevity.
> 
> 3.  I will ask why that particular technique the surgeon has chosen would fit me and check expectations.    In any case, I don't want to shell out for surgery every year or two years, or even four!
> 
> 4.  I will ask about their revision policy.
> 
> But I think paying with a credit card could provide an additional safeguard, even if you have signed many forms.


@Otto8 the problem is when you ask surgeons for their revision rate, they may say 1% or I only ever had one patient I did revision. Then you discover independently when you chat with former patients that many are seeking revision or retightening! This is why word of mouth from past patients is vital. Find past patients and chat with them privately. Follow their journey.

Yesterday a prominent UK facelift surgeon admitted to his patient, “that part is notoriously difficult to hold as it’s the furthest away from the sutures”, “the same would happen anyway in a few months as that is the hardest to address and keep lifted” and that “even deep plane would have the same issue.”

On the one hand we have facelift surgeons globally selling facelifts that last 7-15 years and on the other hand we have surgeons confessing all facelifts relax at 4-6 months or it does not stay lifted after a few months, even deep plane.

And if you do find a lady who claims her facelift has lasted for years, you may then discover she has been using botox and fillers from month 4, so in effect given herself a nonsurgical facelift to maintain her lift.

Then we have the dark side of facelift surgery, ie when things go wrong. Very few medicolegal lawyers may take on a case as it is nigh impossible to find surgeons to give expert testimony against a fellow surgeon. I would absolutely hold off on deep plane as it may be a last ditch facelift in my opinion because very few if any surgeon will take on revision of someone else’s deep plane and instead cite they do not want to deal with the scar tissue and the additional risk to the facial nerve from changes to the facial anatomy. If you do find a surgeon who will revise a DP, then they will charge whatever they like to compensate for the additional risk and difficulty.

After May 31 (4 months post), if I do sag again, I shall use conservative measures, like smiling exercises, limit my fat intake, keep my weight down to reduce jowling around the mouth and go back to radiesse dermal fillers. The worst sag days after the VR were never as bad as they were prior to VR so there was improvement. This gives me hope that if and when my smas drops, the bad sag days will not be as bad as they were before and I shall continue to work out what gives me good face days, ie avoiding freezing temps, avoid dehydrating alcohol and keep well hydrated.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Yesterday a prominent UK facelift surgeon admitted to his patient, “that part is notoriously difficult to hold as it’s the furthest away from the sutures”, “the same would happen anyway in a few months as that is the hardest to address and keep lifted” and that “even deep plane would have the same issue.”



And so in this case, ask for his revision policy.  Your advice is excellent here.    Perhaps try to persuade the consultant to agree to a reasonable one before surgery. Check the consultation letter.  Or go for a second consult again to clarify.



MissOrange said:


> On the one hand we have facelift surgeons globally selling facelifts that last 7-15 years and on the other hand we have surgeons confessing all facelifts relax at 4-6 months or it does not stay lifted after a few months, even deep plane.



Therefore, if what they say on paper or their sales tag does not match their actual performance, you could have reasonable grounds for asking for a revision, within a reasonable time period. 





MissOrange said:


> I would absolutely hold off on deep plane as it may be a last ditch facelift in my opinion because very few if any surgeon will take on revision of someone else’s deep plane and instead cite they do not want to deal with the scar tissue and the additional risk to the facial nerve from changes to the facial anatomy.



This is excellent advice!  I must remember this. 

Regarding credit card payments and Section 75, I believe that if we try to discuss with the consultant, and if he is unwilling, a legal letter stating your reasonable grounds could sometimes help the consultant to see your point of view, and carry out a revision.   I think each case would depend on the length of time, what was stated in the original consulting letter, and reasonable expectations.   Unless you show you are serious, sometimes the consultant will try to brush you off with a no. 

I am not clear of the specifics of the Bray case, but he is not the surgeon for me, mainly because he is very dear.   Additionally, to have to shell out another £20k for a revision by Bray after a year or two is not feasible, as a matter of principle, rather than economic concerns. 

I would prefer a sympathetic surgeon who would try his best, a  surgeon who is able to see sense and understand that 4 to 6 months in terms of facelift longevity is unreasonable, a surgeon who would want to set out to correct this short-lived facelift.  Note that I am not saying the surgeon is terrible for performing a facelift that lasts only 4 to 6 months.   I understand that there is a certain element of the unforeseeable where cosmetic surgery is concerned.  However, it is only morally ethical, if charging £20 XXX amount, that a revision is carried out at the patient's request, if reasonable.  Of course, the law is not about moral ethics at times. 

I believe medicolegal issues are complicated and stressful.  I have tried to put this down very simply.   Every case differs.    

It is only good to consider and think of all avenues or recourse.


----------



## MissOrange

I found Dr Dongman Park’s one hour interview on facelifts really fascinating. I watched with poor English subtitles but got some gist of what he was saying. He divides skin into thick and thin categories. I fit the thin category so needed fat grafting to replace loss in volume! He says thick skin suffer from large pores and fat hypertrophy! But that liposuction then leads to drooping! I wish I could fully understand the dialogue but there were diagrams to follow in English.


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday I tried HRT for the very first time as a patch! It is used by trans individuals who end up looking very young and feminine! Hoping it replaces lost estrogen post menopause and gives me an even younger face! I stuck one on my left buttock. You leave it on and then change it 3 days later and change the site. Hoping it builds up my lost bone mass density in my face too! Adding magnesium, vitamin K2 and zinc to my daily vitamin D3 and calcium supplements to rebuild bone mass density.


----------



## Lien

That transformation is amazing!!

I also need to try HRT, as I am also post-menopausal.  I'd be interested in hearing how you fare with it.


----------



## Otto8

I am inclined to go with Traditional Chinese Medicine for now.   I do have my periods. 

Will let you know how it goes.  I have to book a blood test once my period comes, and I have a three-day window to do this.

I have also booked a second consultation with Mr Chana.  I would still see Mr Rhodes in August.


----------



## MissOrange

Compared my 6 weeks selfie after VR 1 vs VR 2 and they are comparable. Fingers crossed this smas plication lasts longer than 4 months. 2.5 months to go to find out.

Meanwhile evorel conti 50 hrt patch has made my face feel super soft and no more anxiety or mood swings. And that is just after one patch for 3 days! I changed patches today as it is a twice weekly patch. I wonder what else will improve raising my low estrogen levels post menopause?

Just found out a local in Korea got quoted $7k for a FL/NL with Dr Dongman Park in Bio clinic!!! Foreigners are being charged $25k!


----------



## MissOrange

Menoface is real! When you enter menopause (for me in my late 40s) I noticed my face change from lack of oestrogen. Menopause caused facial bone density loss and facial fat loss in the forehead, temples, upper lids, malar cheeks, nasolabial folds, lower face and chin.

Ages 50-53, I had multiple full face fat grafts in Korea to replace lost fat and volume but by age 54 the bone and collagen loss intensified and my lower face sagged, so I got VR vertical macs then smas plication facelifts at age 55 and now to increase my oestrogen and build up my bones I am on hrt patches, calcium, vit D, vit C, magnesium, vitamin k2 and zinc. 

Post menopause the drop in oestrogen caused my cholesterol and lpa to shoot up, my dexa bone t scores to drop to osteopenia, my memory to be poor, my moods to swing from anxious to despair, and my face to lose volume and sag. This is called aging from lack of estrogen! The UK now has shortages of hrt after more ladies are realising this.

For hair loss, I had hair transplants and for thinning eyebrows I had eyebrow tattooing. The battle against menoface is real! lol. Men have more bone mass to begin with so they start ageing in the face much later in their 60s and 70s. Women's faces age from their 40s and 50s.

Bottom pics are day 3 on evorel conti hrt patch and 6 weeks post facelift retightening with smas plication. Only downside are visible red scars.


----------



## Otto8

The GPs don't want to prescribe HRT and I feel very strongly about this.

Many a time, from pensions to medical treatments, women are discriminated against.

Unfortunately, Menopause and female health-related issues are kept very hush-hush and people avoid such discussions.

You could argue and fight for it. I intend to put up a fight with my GP if the Chinese Traditional Medicine does not help (TCM). But you know, it is a postcode lottery ultimately. Or a toss of a coin for a GP who is unsympathetic or sympathetic.   Additionally, we must not forget GPs are also bound by protocols and so we cannot truly judge or be furious at the GP. 

And TCM is not cheap, at £400 a month! Still in two minds about it. This one is in a swanky part of London, where all the private doctors and consultants are (if you know London streets).

On Monday, I will walk up to Chinatown in London to look-see.

I was very tempted to try Evorel Sequi, I must admit.

It is depressing being an ageing female......I am so blue


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> The GPs don't want to prescribe HRT and I feel very strongly about this.
> 
> Many a time, from pensions to medical treatments, women are discriminated against.
> 
> Unfortunately, Menopause and female health-related issues are kept very hush-hush and people avoid such discussions.
> 
> You could argue and fight for it. I intend to put up a fight with my GP if the Chinese Traditional Medicine does not help (TCM). But you know, it is a postcode lottery ultimately. Or a toss of a coin for a GP who is unsympathetic or sympathetic.   Additionally, we must not forget GPs are also bound by protocols and so we cannot truly judge or be furious at the GP.
> 
> And TCM is not cheap, at £400 a month! Still in two minds about it. This one is in a swanky part of London, where all the private doctors and consultants are (if you know London streets).
> 
> On Monday, I will walk up to Chinatown in London to look-see.
> 
> I was very tempted to try Evorel Sequi, I must admit.
> 
> It is depressing being an ageing female......I am so blue



I hear you.


----------



## Lien

Looking amazing, @MissOrange !!

I am gonna chant FAT GRAFT in my head now! lol

Why the red scars?


----------



## MissOrange

Lien said:


> Looking amazing, @MissOrange !!
> 
> I am gonna chant FAT GRAFT in my head now! lol
> 
> Why the red scars?


I think because he had to cut through the old scars so it will take a little longer to fade. My right side has already started to fade so just the left side left to go.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> The GPs don't want to prescribe HRT and I feel very strongly about this.
> 
> Many a time, from pensions to medical treatments, women are discriminated against.
> 
> Unfortunately, Menopause and female health-related issues are kept very hush-hush and people avoid such discussions.
> 
> You could argue and fight for it. I intend to put up a fight with my GP if the Chinese Traditional Medicine does not help (TCM). But you know, it is a postcode lottery ultimately. Or a toss of a coin for a GP who is unsympathetic or sympathetic.   Additionally, we must not forget GPs are also bound by protocols and so we cannot truly judge or be furious at the GP.
> 
> And TCM is not cheap, at £400 a month! Still in two minds about it. This one is in a swanky part of London, where all the private doctors and consultants are (if you know London streets).
> 
> On Monday, I will walk up to Chinatown in London to look-see.
> 
> I was very tempted to try Evorel Sequi, I must admit.
> 
> It is depressing being an ageing female......I am so blue


There is a menopause support fb group that may help. NHS GPs are supposed to follow NICE guidance on menopause so should prescribe for postmenopause symptoms. I find female GPs are more knowledgeable than their male counterparts when it comes to HRT.


----------



## NewMe83

MissOrange said:


> Menoface is real! When you enter menopause (for me in my late 40s) I noticed my face change from lack of oestrogen. Menopause caused facial bone density loss and facial fat loss in the forehead, temples, upper lids, malar cheeks, nasolabial folds, lower face and chin.
> 
> Ages 50-53, I had multiple full face fat grafts in Korea to replace lost fat and volume but by age 54 the bone and collagen loss intensified and my lower face sagged, so I got VR vertical macs then smas plication facelifts at age 55 and now to increase my oestrogen and build up my bones I am on hrt patches, calcium, vit D, vit C, magnesium, vitamin k2 and zinc.
> 
> Post menopause the drop in oestrogen caused my cholesterol and lpa to shoot up, my dexa bone t scores to drop to osteopenia, my memory to be poor, my moods to swing from anxious to despair, and my face to lose volume and sag. This is called aging from lack of estrogen! The UK now has shortages of hrt after more ladies are realising this.
> 
> For hair loss, I had hair transplants and for thinning eyebrows I had eyebrow tattooing. The battle against menoface is real! lol. Men have more bone mass to begin with so they start ageing in the face much later in their 60s and 70s. Women's faces age from their 40s and 50s.
> 
> Bottom pics are day 3 on evorel conti hrt patch and 6 weeks post facelift retightening with smas plication. Only downside are visible red scars.
> 
> View attachment 5356237
> 
> 
> View attachment 5356238
> 
> 
> View attachment 5356239
> 
> 
> View attachment 5356240
> 
> 
> View attachment 5356241


Wow, you are looking amazing! Could I ask where and how did you have hair transplant done? Did you have a donor hair or yours? My hairline is reseding, especially the sides and I was wondering what could I do about it.


----------



## MissOrange

NewMe83 said:


> Wow, you are looking amazing! Could I ask where and how did you have hair transplant done? Did you have a donor hair or yours? My hairline is reseding, especially the sides and I was wondering what could I do about it.
> View attachment 5358163


Hi @NewMe83,

I had mine done at the Wimpole Clinic in London. The clinic is a specialist hair transplant clinic run by Dr Michael May. I paid £4k, 8 years ago. His tech did most of the operation. He was old back then and will be a lot older now. (OMG! I just realised everything fell apart at menopause at age 47, exactly 8 years ago this month! My hairline receded, I got brain fog impaired memory, I needed reading glasses, my face lost volume and looked bony, and I got mood swings from anxious to depressed!).

A strip of scalp was cut out of the back of my occiput part of the head where you would rest your head on a pillow and then technicians took out each hair follicle to harvest in my temples and front hairline. I was in a dentist type of chair for 10 hours but dosed up on valium and painkillers so dozed off. I thought I would wake up to long hair but instead they cut the hair transplant so it looked like fuzz on my face!!! OMG! You may wish to wear a cap or style your hair forward until the transplanted hair grows long which takes years!

I have now been on evorel conti 50 HRT patch for a week and I can finally sleep the night 8 hours straight, I did the mini mental state exam and got 3/3 objects right, my moods are stable, I have gained 1.4 lbs of weight (from 94.2-95.6 lbs), I am no longer constipated and I am sure there are more positive effects I may not be noticing at the moment! I just watched a rerun of Age of Adaline and thought I want to be Adaline and always look in my 20s! lol. Then I found a photo of my 63 yo OH in his 20s and thought, OMG! He has changed sooooo much! I wish I could have my young husband back as he looked cute back then! lol. I am like Adaline wed to Harrison Ford’s older character! lol. OMG! I don’t know what will happen when my daughters in their 20s start to look older than me. They may need to explore botox and fillers.


----------



## Fraulein

Hi everyone   
This feed has been very informative and I appreciate everyone providing their input.   I'm currently shopping for surgeons to do my brow/face and neck lift.   i'm Korean American, 54 and have had quite a few surgeries and revisions. It is really important for me to do my due diligence and pick the right surgeon.   

Prices with the best surgeons in California have become astronomical since the pandemic.  The demand skyrocketed and doctors have been busy.  So, I'm looking outside of California which is crazy since LA is PS capital next to Seoul.

I did visit Dr. Kao in Los Angeles in October 2021 and he charged me $350 for the consultation (my friend said his consultation is now $1000). and his quote for the ponytail lift and neck lift was ....$200,000 for what he claims will be a 10 hour surgery.   Yep.  I had a consult with him in 2018 and he quoted me $46,000 then so his prices have really escalated during the pandemic.  Dr. Kao is an artist and he knows it.  If I had $200K to spend on this - he would be my first choice.

So, I visited Dr. Peter Lee at Wave and that was a $500 consultation fee that you can use for othere services if you don't get surgery with him OR it can be reallocated to surgery fee if you do have surgery with him.  He was a bit flat and frankly looked too drained and tired.  His quote was $35K for the brow, face and neck lift and he said I didn't have enough fat to do a fat grafting and that he will always split the procedures into two.  He suggested sculptura or fat grafting six months after the surgery and that cost $6K.  I was told that if I pay for the $35K surgical fee he would do the fat/sculptura for free.

I have since found Gary Linkov - love this man!  I  have a consultation scheduled with him in June.  Cost is $300.  His fees are  the deep plane face lift; $12,000 + $4k-$6k for anesthesia and operating room fees. The lip lift procedure is $7,000, and the neck lift:$12,000 + $4k-$6k for OR and anesthesia.  

I may also want a lip lift and that is what Dr. Linkov specializes in.  I was told he performs 3 - 4 deep plane face/neck lifts per month and at least 4+ lip lifts per week.  His next surgery availability is in Nov of this year.

He gives a very nice explanation of the different kinds of facelifts in this video. 

Also, he looks at the changes in celebrity faces and tells you what he thinks they did or didn't do - here's his opinion on Kelly Osbourne:    

I'm currently communicating with Dr. Dongman Park (Thank you Miss Orange) at Bio and getting my quotes.  My cousin did get an original quote for $7K - I do think they can legally gouge foreigners so we'll see.  

I reached out to Dirk Kremer's office - 

Neck lift £9,200 
Face lift £11,250 
Face and neck lift £15,800 (includes overnight stay)  
 Virtual consultation cost £75/- and are conducted via WhatsApp video and zoom. In-person consultation are £150/- and conducted at our office in Harley Street.  

My biggest concern is my brow - the surgeon in Korea cut too much skin from my eyes so they sag a bit and he said i needed a brow lift.  Because I've had multliple revisions on my eyes I cannot have anyone touch them - just have to lift the brow.  I wish I could do a temporal lift to have that cat eye look but that is usually not really recommended.  

Anyway, just wanted to share my research. 

Fraulein


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on the importance of combining hrt with facial plastic surgery for ladies over the age of 45. I have now been on hrt for 2 weeks and am 2 months post a smas plication as my 2nd FL, within 6 months of the 1st a macs lift.

Looking back I was 47 when I reached menopause and did not know low oestrogen causes memory problems (had to quit work as I couldn't recall names of medications so had to google during consultations), anxiety (stopped driving at night and got scared of large crowds so preferred to shop during quieter times), menoface (started emailing clinics in Korea for help with my ugly face but it wasn't until I was 49 that I started my facial rejuvenation), had hot flushes at night if I had ice cream or anything with sugar after dinner, had mood swings, felt depressed off and on for no reason and 8 years later have only now worked out I needed hrt! In fact statistics show women between ages 45-55 have the highest rates of suicide and divorce! After my first facelift sagged at 4 months, I felt suicidal by the 5th month and on December 10 even googled how to...I had a dexa scan this year that showed osteoporosis in the left neck of femur or osteopenia if compared to a Korean female. My cholesterol had shot up from 5 to over 8 in the past decade.  Something had happened and that was the drop in my female hormones including testosterone!

I then googled hrt images wanting to see b&a faces but instead trans faces came up and wow! Not only did the afters look feminine but youthful too!

So if anyone is peri or post menopause having a facelift then it is imperative in my opinion that you explore hrt. One lady says her face sagged during the 4 weeks she was off hrt so she went back on hrt and it lifted again!

HRT works on the brain, cholesterol and bones and has allowed me to walk 7.5 miles on Monday with ease (feel my muscles are stronger), slept 9 hours, and I can go en pointe which I couldn't with my right ankle instability (so think the hrt also helped my ligaments). I still wake up at 3-4 o'clock though on some nights so will see if it improves the longer I am on hrt. Apparently the progesterone component makes one sleepy. My memory is still not 100%. A lady mentioned 2 symptoms and a few minutes later I could only recall one of them. So maybe more time on hrt or I consider testogel or androfemme.

Meanwhile my face looks super young! The youngest looking almost 56 year old! HRT+FL seems to be the winning formula and prior fat grafting helps too.

The only thing I haven't explored is collagen supplements as in marine collagen peptides but as I am already taking 11 daily supplements (calcium, vitamin d with fish oil, CoQ10, niacin, vitamin k2, magnesium, vitamin C, zinc, lysine, proline, and plant sterol) I shall hold off on this for now. HRT should help reduce my cholesterol and improve my bone t scores too.


----------



## Transformation2021

Fraulein said:


> Hi everyone
> This feed has been very informative and I appreciate everyone providing their input.   I'm currently shopping for surgeons to do my brow/face and neck lift.   i'm Korean American, 54 and have had quite a few surgeries and revisions. It is really important for me to do my due diligence and pick the right surgeon.
> 
> Prices with the best surgeons in California have become astronomical since the pandemic.  The demand skyrocketed and doctors have been busy.  So, I'm looking outside of California which is crazy since LA is PS capital next to Seoul.
> 
> I did visit Dr. Kao in Los Angeles in October 2021 and he charged me $350 for the consultation (my friend said his consultation is now $1000). and his quote for the ponytail lift and neck lift was ....$200,000 for what he claims will be a 10 hour surgery.   Yep.  I had a consult with him in 2018 and he quoted me $46,000 then so his prices have really escalated during the pandemic.  Dr. Kao is an artist and he knows it.  If I had $200K to spend on this - he would be my first choice.
> 
> So, I visited Dr. Peter Lee at Wave and that was a $500 consultation fee that you can use for othere services if you don't get surgery with him OR it can be reallocated to surgery fee if you do have surgery with him.  He was a bit flat and frankly looked too drained and tired.  His quote was $35K for the brow, face and neck lift and he said I didn't have enough fat to do a fat grafting and that he will always split the procedures into two.  He suggested sculptura or fat grafting six months after the surgery and that cost $6K.  I was told that if I pay for the $35K surgical fee he would do the fat/sculptura for free.
> 
> I have since found Gary Linkov - love this man!  I  have a consultation scheduled with him in June.  Cost is $300.  His fees are  the deep plane face lift; $12,000 + $4k-$6k for anesthesia and operating room fees. The lip lift procedure is $7,000, and the neck lift:$12,000 + $4k-$6k for OR and anesthesia.
> 
> I may also want a lip lift and that is what Dr. Linkov specializes in.  I was told he performs 3 - 4 deep plane face/neck lifts per month and at least 4+ lip lifts per week.  His next surgery availability is in Nov of this year.
> 
> He gives a very nice explanation of the different kinds of facelifts in this video.
> 
> Also, he looks at the changes in celebrity faces and tells you what he thinks they did or didn't do - here's his opinion on Kelly Osbourne:
> 
> I'm currently communicating with Dr. Dongman Park (Thank you Miss Orange) at Bio and getting my quotes.  My cousin did get an original quote for $7K - I do think they can legally gouge foreigners so we'll see.
> 
> I reached out to Dirk Kremer's office -
> 
> Neck lift £9,200
> Face lift £11,250
> Face and neck lift £15,800 (includes overnight stay)
> Virtual consultation cost £75/- and are conducted via WhatsApp video and zoom. In-person consultation are £150/- and conducted at our office in Harley Street.
> 
> My biggest concern is my brow - the surgeon in Korea cut too much skin from my eyes so they sag a bit and he said i needed a brow lift.  Because I've had multliple revisions on my eyes I cannot have anyone touch them - just have to lift the brow.  I wish I could do a temporal lift to have that cat eye look but that is usually not really recommended.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to share my research.
> 
> Fraulein




Dr Peter Lee of Wave, Los Angeles is on my shortlist. Why did you not consider going there?
	

		
			
		

		
	



He definitely gets rid of the nasal fold with his extended SMAS lift and necklift.  Here's a 70 plus Asian's results 6 months post. He did not do her upper eyes but rather let his endo browlift do the work as it would look more natural. (I thinks she's had DES before and probably can't do more but I think she could benefit with a bit of FG on her upper eyes). He did do her lower eyes.


----------



## Fraulein

Transformation2021 said:


> Dr Peter Lee of Wave, Los Angeles is on my shortlist. Why did you not consider going there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5367397
> 
> He definitely gets rid of the nasal fold with his extended SMAS lift and necklift.  Here's a 70 plus Asian's results 6 months post. He did not do her upper eyes but rather let his endo browlift do the work as it would look more natural. (I thinks she's had DES before and probably can't do more but I think she could benefit with a bit of FG on her upper eyes). He did do her lower eyes.
> View attachment 5367398





Transformation2021 said:


> Dr Peter Lee of Wave, Los Angeles is on my shortlist. Why did you not consider going there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5367397
> 
> He definitely gets rid of the nasal fold with his extended SMAS lift and necklift.  Here's a 70 plus Asian's results 6 months post. He did not do her upper eyes but rather let his endo browlift do the work as it would look more natural. (I thinks she's had DES before and probably can't do more but I think she could benefit with a bit of FG on her upper eyes). He did do her lower eyes.
> View attachment 5367398


I  probably met him on a bad day.  He seemed really overworked, exhausted and unenthusiastic.   I am also considering a lip lift and he shot that idea down and said that it's difficult to make that look natural when you can really only lift the philtrum area below the nostril - but i'm not sure if he was speaking about my specific anatomy or if it's because it's just not his area of expertise.  He also recommended sculptra instead of fat grafting.  I'm uncomfortable with that given possible granuloma formations.  I'm just going on my feeling - I left the consultation feeling dejected rather than excited.


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Dr Peter Lee of Wave, Los Angeles is on my shortlist. Why did you not consider going there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5367397
> 
> He definitely gets rid of the nasal fold with his extended SMAS lift and necklift.  Here's a 70 plus Asian's results 6 months post. He did not do her upper eyes but rather let his endo browlift do the work as it would look more natural. (I thinks she's had DES before and probably can't do more but I think she could benefit with a bit of FG on her upper eyes). He did do her lower eyes.
> View attachment 5367398


The patient has a palsy of the frontal branch of the facial nerve which is why one eyebrow sits higher than the other. This may be a surgical complication. As the after is at 6 months, it appears permanent and may be due to injury of the facial nerve.


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> The patient has a palsy of the frontal branch of the facial nerve which is why one eyebrow sits higher than the other. This may be a surgical complication. As the after is at 6 months, it appears permanent and may be due to injury of the facial nerve.


Without a medical background like yours I can't see it. If I was her and looked like the before and then the after, I would be doing a happy dance, especially when she's in her 70's.
I had my eyebrows tattooed way back around 1990 - not like how they measure you now with a ruler. The tatts are still there. My eyebrows are uneven and one is higher than the other but I cover it up with eye shadow. When I get around to have my browlift I have to tell the doctor not to use my eyebrows as a gauge!


----------



## Transformation2021

Riddle me this, why would the doctor put a paranasal implant on this young girl? I mean she looks darn good but why?


----------



## jellyfish17

@MissOrange any PS to recommend in Singapore for face fat grafting? Thank you!


----------



## Otto8

@MissOrange, I have been reading up on HRT and one of the side effects is weight gain.  

I fail to see how one can gain weight if you don't eat that much. Am I missing something? 

Does HRT make a person more hungry than usual?  But if one were to simply keep to their usual diet, how could there be weight gain?


----------



## Vanilla Bean

MissOrange said:


> The patient has a palsy of the frontal branch of the facial nerve which is why one eyebrow sits higher than the other. This may be a surgical complication. As the after is at 6 months, it appears permanent and may be due to injury of the facial nerve.


I see one eyebrow higher than the other in both before and after.


----------



## Vanilla Bean

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange, I have been reading up on HRT and one of the side effects is weight gain.
> 
> I fail to see how one can gain weight if you don't eat that much. Am I missing something?
> 
> Does HRT make a person more hungry than usual?  But if one were to simply keep to their usual diet, how could there be weight gain?



Calories are important but they are not the only component of weight gain or loss. Hormones, metabolism, water retention are just a few of the other factors.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange, I have been reading up on HRT and one of the side effects is weight gain.
> 
> I fail to see how one can gain weight if you don't eat that much. Am I missing something?
> 
> Does HRT make a person more hungry than usual?  But if one were to simply keep to their usual diet, how could there be weight gain?


Hi @Otto8, apparently HRT may cause weight gain through water retention if the oestrogen amount is too high. As my oestrogen is low, this patch seems to be fine and my weight is still 95 lbs. I guess one can work out if the HRT dose is too high, ie if one starts gaining weight. I recall when I was on the pill in my early 20s, ate very little yet couldn’t stop gaining weight to a whopping 112 lbs! So I think it caused water retention in me. When I stopped the pill, my weight dropped back down to a normal weight of 99 lbs. Back then I did not need extra oestrogen so my body reacted to the pill.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Otto8, apparently HRT may cause weight gain through water retention if the oestrogen amount is too high. As my oestrogen is low, this patch seems to be fine and my weight is still 95 lbs. I guess one can work out if the HRT dose is too high, ie if one starts gaining weight. I recall when I was on the pill in my early 20s, ate very little yet couldn’t stop gaining weight to a whopping 112 lbs! So I think it caused water retention in me. When I stopped the pill, my weight dropped back down to a normal weight of 99 lbs. Back then I did not need extra oestrogen so my body reacted to the pill.



Thank you.


----------



## Otto8

Transformation2021 said:


> Riddle me this, why would the doctor put a paranasal implant on this young girl? I mean she looks darn good but why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5370898



Wow, I think paranasal implants are a bit extreme for me.

I don't know much about it. I googled it and briefly read the procedure.

I feel like I don't want to play that much with my face. For me, a facelift, some eye thing, fat transfer, lipo. For some people, that might already be too much.

All subjective I guess. But it shows you the influence a surgeon can weave over a patient.

I really don't like the hard sell of, oh, you need a facelift now because I can see big lumpy jowls. That's what one particular consultant told me when I was 48 years old. I was at that age when I saw this consultant, so I am wiser in that I know what I want and don't.

But a younger, insecure me might have said ok heck, why not?  

Just to be clear, this is my jawline at 51 now. So at 48, I think it was sharper and yet the surgeon told me to do it, with remarks like you're full of jowls. I was not. I simply highlighted a concern that I would be heading that way and was trying to forecast what to do.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Wow, I think paranasal implants are a bit extreme for me.
> 
> I don't know much about it. I googled it and briefly read the procedure.
> 
> I feel like I don't want to play that much with my face. For me, a facelift, some eye thing, fat transfer, lipo. For some people, that might already be too much.
> 
> All subjective I guess. But it shows you the influence a surgeon can weave over a patient.
> 
> I really don't like the hard sell of, oh, you need a facelift now because I can see big lumpy jowls. That's what one particular consultant told me when I was 48 years old. I was at that age when I saw this consultant, so I am wiser in that I know what I want and don't.
> 
> But a younger, insecure me might have said ok heck, why not?
> 
> Just to be clear, this is my jawline at 51 now. So at 48, I think it was sharper and yet the surgeon told me to do it, with remarks like you're full of jowls. I was not. I simply highlighted a concern that I would be heading that way and was trying to forecast what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5374215


@Otto8 wow you have a baby lower face. You do not need anything. You already look 20s at age 51. You just look like you have baby cheeks. A sharp v line would make you look harsh and older imo. I went to pick up my mother’s of the bride dress from the dress alterations lady and she greeted me with the words, “Hello little girl.” Enough said.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> @Otto8 wow you have a baby lower face. You do not need anything. You already look 20s at age 51. You just look like you have baby cheeks. A sharp v line would make you look harsh and older imo. I went to pick up my mother’s of the bride dress from the dress alterations lady and she greeted me with the words, “Hello little girl.” Enough said.



   You look wonderful and I am so pleased that you are happy with the FL.  

I do want a sharper jawline at some point.  I think the baby effect is due to the Profhilo.  I have stopped it.  Too much would tip me over into not-so-nice territory.  I will let it wear off whilst I await consultations this year.


----------



## MissOrange

I take back my recommendation of Mascaro for lip lifts. I don’t know why he overshortened the philtrum in this lady on realself. Her philtrum to chin ratio was 1:2 so in my opinion did not need philtrum shortening. Now she has been left with a 6.7 mm philtrum which is way shorter than the ideal 11-13 mm philtrum of a young lady. Meanwhile my bullhorn lip lift with Miss Caroline Mills has held for over 5 years now and my philtrum is still 11 mms! She is an astoundingly great surgeon at lip lifts. Just a shame she has retired from private practice and only does NHS work. UK plastic surgeon at Coppergate Clinic where I had my facelift, Mr Christopher West seems to be promising based on an IG post of his b&a patient. And their prices are only £1950 for a lip lift which is less than the £2450 I paid over 5 years ago! Although that said, try to find ladies at least a year out to confirm longevity.

At almost 10 weeks post smas FL, my face is holding nicely. Still have to get to the 4-6 month mark. I think the HRT patch is working on my face. I look like I have had a facial. My skin is glowing. I have been on the patch for 4 weeks now.

https://www.realself.com/review/lip-lift-25-days-post-op?page=5#media-review-11319646-image-4103867


----------



## Gats

There's been discussions about HRT, I follow this plastic surgeon's blog for general news in plastic surgery, she posted this article this past week, it may have some info that could interest some of you: https://www.laurengreenbergmd.com/breast/menopause-and-hormone-replacement-things-to-think-about/


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> I take back my recommendation of Mascaro for lip lifts. I don’t know why he overshortened the philtrum in this lady on realself. Her philtrum to chin ratio was 1:2 so in my opinion did not need philtrum shortening. Now she has been left with a 6.7 mm philtrum which is way shorter than the ideal 11-13 mm philtrum of a young lady. Meanwhile my bullhorn lip lift with Miss Caroline Mills has held for over 5 years now and my philtrum is still 11 mms! She is an astoundingly great surgeon at lip lifts. Just a shame she has retired from private practice and only does NHS work. UK plastic surgeon at Coppergate Clinic where I had my facelift, Mr Christopher West seems to be promising based on an IG post of his b&a patient. And their prices are only £1950 for a lip lift which is less than the £2450 I paid over 5 years ago! Although that said, try to find ladies at least a year out to confirm longevity.
> 
> At almost 10 weeks post smas FL, my face is holding nicely. Still have to get to the 4-6 month mark. I think the HRT patch is working on my face. I look like I have had a facial. My skin is glowing. I have been on the patch for 4 weeks now.
> 
> https://www.realself.com/review/lip-lift-25-days-post-op?page=5#media-review-11319646-image-4103867
> 
> View attachment 5376603
> 
> 
> View attachment 5376604
> 
> 
> View attachment 5376606
> 
> 
> View attachment 5376607
> 
> 
> View attachment 5376608


Depends on what ‘look’ you’re going for. Some girls want this BUT you have to be very careful who you go to if you want extreme shortening. Once you’re cut there’s no going back. I’ve heard a woman who does over the top every thing eg HHH boobs now can’t close her mouth.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> Depends on what ‘look’ you’re going for. Some girls want this BUT you have to be very careful who you go to if you want extreme shortening. Once you’re cut there’s no going back. I’ve heard a woman who does over the top every thing eg HHH boobs now can’t close her mouth.



This doctor does bullhorn and vermillion lift (if you want it)


----------



## MissOrange

I am now researching lip tattoo to straighten my off centre cupid's bow and medical areola repigmentation/scar camouflage. Turns out menopause can cause loss of areola pigmentation! Mine are a bit of a mess with white scar lines and irregular pigmentation. Have a free phone consult with Suki tomorrow morning.


----------



## MissOrange

Dr Dongman Park wins for best smasectomy. Here is a b&a at 2.5 years post. I shall choose him for my third FL.


----------



## eyebagisbad

Do you think infraorbital rim implants are a good way to rejuvenate the eye area or are under eye fat grafts better? Hard for me to find surgeons that do this procedure


----------



## MissOrange

I have concluded why macs suspension, smas plication, deep plane facelifts may all sag by 6 months! Turns out even permanent ethibond sutures have a mean displacement of 3 cms!!! This suggests the only type of facelift that may ensure longevity is the smasectomy where a strip of smas muscle is cut away and the cut ends sutured together to allow for natural healing. One cannot rely on a facelift that uses sutures to pull up the smas and anchor it higher up as this method resembles a threadlift.

This means find a plastic surgeon who is competent in smasectomy facelifts. I have 6 weeks left to go before the pds sutures will dissolve but with the wedding in 3 weeks, at least I am covered for this and for family wedding photos. Then when it sags, I shall look at by how much and if I need to drink lots of water, go back to radiesse fillers or try face yoga.


----------



## MissOrange

eyebagisbad said:


> Do you think infraorbital rim implants are a good way to rejuvenate the eye area or are under eye fat grafts better? Hard for me to find surgeons that do this procedure


No to implants around the eyes. They do fat repositioning or fat graft to fill the area under the eyes.


----------



## MissOrange

I did a side by side comparison of my right side which tends to sag more than the left in the past, at 1 week and almost 11 weeks today. The scars are healing nicely despite the surgeon having to go through the same incisions and cut through hard scar tissue. The smas lift seems to be holding. I have 6 more weeks of hold before I have to worry about the pds sutures dissolving. I like having moles as surgical markers. I seem to look better at 96 lbs than 94 lbs as it seems to fill out the malar cheeks to give my face a little more lift from volume or it could be from the HRT, both of which are good as it is easier to weigh more than less! I shall be 56 next month. How time flies. It has been 5 years and 2 days since I started this thread! I do hope it has been a useful read. I can see it has had 380,000 views over the years! Wow!


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> I did a side by side comparison of my right side which tends to sag more than the left in the past, at 1 week and almost 11 weeks today. The scars are healing nicely despite the surgeon having to go through the same incisions and cut through hard scar tissue. The smas lift seems to be holding. I have 6 more weeks of hold before I have to worry about the pds sutures dissolving. I like having moles as surgical markers. I seem to look better at 96 lbs than 94 lbs as it seems to fill out the malar cheeks to give my face a little more lift from volume or it could be from the HRT, both of which are good as it is easier to weigh more than less! I shall be 56 next month. How time flies. It has been 5 years and 2 days since I started this thread! I do hope it has been a useful read. I can see it has had 380,000 views over the years! Wow!
> 
> View attachment 5381108



It is the best thread and I revisit it many times to make notes for questions I will ask.  

Thank you so much for this thread!


----------



## MissOrange

Today I dolled up for Easter church service. Instead of botox, lip corner surgery or exercises, I worked out an easy way to appear to have a corner lip lift! Draw your top lip liner so it ends on the inside of the bottom corner lip liner. Sometimes makeup can look like plastic surgery results!


----------



## Transformation2021

What nasal fold? Great South American doctor whose prices are on par with Dongman for his deep plane fl.
	

		
			
		

		
	



Excuse the quality of pics, I screen shot them off a video


----------



## HopefulGB

Transformation2021 said:


> What nasal fold? Great South American doctor whose prices are on par with Dongman for his deep plane fl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5384040
> 
> Excuse the quality of pics, I screen shot them off a video
> View attachment 5384041
> 
> View attachment 5384042


I’m actually impressed with his surgical outcomes. The ladies now look at least 15 years younger than their pre-surgical pics!!! Please share this South American miracle worker’s name!!


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> What nasal fold? Great South American doctor whose prices are on par with Dongman for his deep plane fl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5384040
> 
> Excuse the quality of pics, I screen shot them off a video
> View attachment 5384041
> 
> View attachment 5384042


----------



## HopefulGB

Transformation2021 said:


> View attachment 5384047


In this before and after, the outcome reveals a 30 or even year year difference. It’s actually unbelievable in my opinion. I’m in complete amazement as well as disbelief simultaneously.  This looks like a before pic of a grandmother and after of possibly a granddaughter or even a great granddaughter!


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> View attachment 5384047


----------



## HopefulGB

Transformation2021 said:


> View attachment 5384047


I truly believe that South American surgeon offers way more than Dr Dongman Park offers for the price. I can tell that this pt got a deep plane facelift/neck lift with smasectomy, skin rejuvenating laser, facial fat grafting, rhinoplasty, lip lift, upper and lower eyelid blepharoplasty, and possibly a forehead lift as well!


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> View attachment 5384052


From looking tired and old before your time to cute and sexy again


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> From looking tired and old before your time to cute and sexy again
> View attachment 5384055


All deep plane


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> All deep plane
> View attachment 5384056


His slide for a medical conference to show the impact of having a liplift with your deep plane fl. His patients looks so pretty and hot afterwards.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> His slide for a medical conference to show the impact of having a liplift with your deep plane fl. His patients looks so pretty and hot afterwards.
> View attachment 5384061


His amazing lip lift. 18 days post. So perfect. Not looking like you have a 'sneer' for over 18 months like some I've seen. Interestingly he said he's refused to do lip lifts on many patients as they do not have the right anatomy to hide the scar well.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> His amazing lip lift. 18 days post. So perfect. Not looking like you have a 'sneer' for over 18 months like some I've seen. Interestingly he said he's refused to do lip lifts on many patients as they do not have the right anatomy to hide the scar well.
> View attachment 5384063


Beauty is pain. She is so old in her 80's and her cardiologist said no general. He normally doesn't do his deep plane face and neck lifts under local. She braved it and voila.  All she needs now is some rf micro needling to get rid of the fine lines and age spots.


----------



## Otto8

Transformation2021 said:


> Beauty is pain. She is so old in her 80's and her cardiologist said no general. He normally doesn't do his deep plane face and neck lifts under local. She braved it and voila.  All she needs now is some rf micro needling to get rid of the fine lines and age spots.



You have tried this surgeon yourself?  And have your personal opinion to show for it?

That would be so much more reassuring.


----------



## HopefulGB

Transformation2021 said:


> Beauty is pain. She is so old in her 80's and her cardiologist said no general. He normally doesn't do his deep plane face and neck lifts under local. She braved it and voila.  All she needs now is some rf micro needling to get rid of the fine lines and age spots.
> View attachment 5384064
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> @Transformation2021 Hello! Thanks for sharing these gems of befores and afters! Who is this surgeon? How’d you end up finding him or her? Because, I was honestly going to Dr Dongman Park, and I may still decide to go him. But I can honestly say that I’m really curious to know who the mystery surgeon that you have discovered is?!???!


----------



## Lien

@Transformation2021

Please share the name of this surgeon.


----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> His amazing lip lift. 18 days post. So perfect. Not looking like you have a 'sneer' for over 18 months like some I've seen. Interestingly he said he's refused to do lip lifts on many patients as they do not have the right anatomy to hide the scar well.
> View attachment 5384063



I think she's had lip filler to her bottom lip.  Not sure about the upper lip.  Regardless, great lip lift.


----------



## HopefulGB

@MissOrange Please chime in with your opinion on these before and after pics that have recently posted regarding this mystery South American surgeon’s work on facelifts. Your opinion definitely matter to us on this platform. I look forward to you sharing your thoughts!


----------



## MissOrange

HopefulGB said:


> @MissOrange Please chime in with your opinion on these before and after pics that have recently posted regarding this mystery South American surgeon’s work on facelifts. Your opinion definitely matter to us on this platform. I look forward to you sharing your thoughts!


Hi @HopefulGB, remember my rules…1. only assess pictures after 6 months. Everyone looks good in the first 1-3 months until the sutures lose their tensile strength and stretch or break or dissolve. 2. Try to find videos as IG photos can be filtered or photoshopped. 3. Find real ladies who have had surgery with the surgeon so you can chat with them. Some look great on IG and may even be on the surgeon’s IG page but when you chat with them privately you may find out that they are not happy or needed a revision.


----------



## HopefulGB

@MissOrange As usual, it’s always a pleasure hear your perspective! One can easily get distracted by before and after pics and forget those key deciding factors that you have mentioned. Therefore I’ll be patiently waiting for the surgeon’s name and I will start my research. Thanks, for your kind yet essential factors to consider when evaluating a surgeon’s overall work!


----------



## HopefulGB

Ladies!!! I think this maybe the mystery surgeon. @Transformation2021 please confirm! https://instagram.com/drfreschi?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=


----------



## GrumpyOldMan

Miss Orange,  I was concerned about Coppergate Clinic insisting on having your NHS number and that they demand they contact your GP about whatever private cosmetic surgery you have with them.  It feels very intrusive and I do not want my GP knowing.  Neither do I want my private NHS records viewed.  Goodness,  I've never known any clinic to demand this before....... I'm so fed up because I'd thought Nick Rhodes seemed great until this. 
The thought of my horrid GP knowing,  really upsets me.  
I've never known any other clinic do this,  is it normal in your experience?


----------



## MissOrange

GrumpyOldMan said:


> Miss Orange,  I was concerned about Coppergate Clinic insisting on having your NHS number and that they demand they contact your GP about whatever private cosmetic surgery you have with them.  It feels very intrusive and I do not want my GP knowing.  Neither do I want my private NHS records viewed.  Goodness,  I've never known any clinic to demand this before....... I'm so fed up because I'd thought Nick Rhodes seemed great until this.
> The thought of my horrid GP knowing,  really upsets me.
> I've never known any other clinic do this,  is it normal in your experience?


Hi @GrumpyOldMan I don’t think any private clinic demands your NHS number or demand they contact your GP. Patients may be asked by any private clinic or hospital if they wish their NHS GP to be informed. If they then do send any information to your GP, a courtesy letter is sent to you too. As I never received any letter after my operation detailing what I had, I doubt my GP did either. I have requested a copy of my operation notes but have received no operation summary 2 months after my request. Instead I got a text from Nick saying he did a smas plication. I was a little upset as no time was smas plication discussed in the consultation room on the day of the revision or on the consent form I signed for the revision. My understanding was he was going to do a retightening on January 31. I already have cheeks full of fat graft, so a smas plication may not be ideal for me as it would add more volume to my cheeks when the smas layer is folded over and sutured in place in the cheeks. I am hoping when the pds sutures dissolve by May 31, that my smas will unfold and my cheeks will look less round and fat. My hair stylist said your body is very thin but your face looks fat! Aaargh.


----------



## Lien

Otto8 said:


> Wow, I think paranasal implants are a bit extreme for me.
> 
> I don't know much about it. I googled it and briefly read the procedure.
> 
> I feel like I don't want to play that much with my face. For me, a facelift, some eye thing, fat transfer, lipo. For some people, that might already be too much.
> 
> All subjective I guess. But it shows you the influence a surgeon can weave over a patient.
> 
> I really don't like the hard sell of, oh, you need a facelift now because I can see big lumpy jowls. That's what one particular consultant told me when I was 48 years old. I was at that age when I saw this consultant, so I am wiser in that I know what I want and don't.
> 
> But a younger, insecure me might have said ok heck, why not?
> 
> Just to be clear, this is my jawline at 51 now. So at 48, I think it was sharper and yet the surgeon told me to do it, with remarks like you're full of jowls. I was not. I simply highlighted a concern that I would be heading that way and was trying to forecast what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5374215



Jaw saw this only.  Wow, you look so young!!  and your lips are beautiful.  You don't need anything, at all.


----------



## GrumpyOldMan

Thank you Miss Orange in the end I decided to travel to London next month to have my Rhinoplasty with Jag Chana. It is so hard to decide on a surgeon and all of your research here is much appreciated. 

A couple of years ago I saw the 1980s model Marie Helvin in London and felt quite sad at how gaunt her face was,  she would have been 65 and was exceptionally slim and it had taken a toll on her face.
I remembered the old french saying attributed to Coco Chanel, “A trente ans, une femme doit choisir entre son derrière et son visage.”    You will not have this problem @miss Orange you can stay slim and still have the full face of youth.  

But the Hair stylist….hmmm I would not always take notice of other people,  to have beauty sometimes provokes envy,  but to keep beauty into your fifties and beyond and to still appear to be in your twenties is outrageous!  I imagine you must leave some people fuming with jealousy.  The average 56 year old will feel threatened to have someone of their age looking the age of their grand daughter!

Now I hope that you will start making plans for your age 70 facelift, because it would be quite appropriate if you started your own discreet surgery advisory service and people could pay a fee to ask for advice, using not just your medical background but surgical experience.  It is such a minefield trying to find a surgeon and get good advice. There is a huge gap in the market for something like this.   All of the fees from your advisory service will pay for the age 70 rejuvenation. Although I'm not so sure you don't just have a portrait in the attic that ages like Dorian Grey.


----------



## Otto8

Lien said:


> Jaw saw this only.  Wow, you look so young!!  and your lips are beautiful.  You don't need anything, at all.



Thank you @Lien .  But you can see though, the Profhilo slightly chubby cheeks effect.   Lovely skin with Profhilo but I am stopping for a while and must also thank you for alerting me to it.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> I have requested a copy of my operation notes but have received no operation summary 2 months after my request. Instead I got a text from Nick saying he did a smas plication. I was a little upset as no time was smas plication discussed in the consultation room on the day of the revision or on the consent form I signed for the revision. My understanding was he was going to do a retightening on January 31. I already have cheeks full of fat graft, so a smas plication may not be ideal for me as it would add more volume to my cheeks when the smas layer is folded over and sutured in place in the cheeks. I am hoping when the pds sutures dissolve by May 31, that my smas will unfold and my cheeks will look less round and fat. My hair stylist said your body is very thin but your face looks fat! Aaargh.



Aw, no, don't bother about the hairstylist and her remarks.  Your cheeks don't look fat.  They certainly do not look like the filler type of chubbiness.  You look lovely and very naturally 26 years old!


----------



## MissOrange

GrumpyOldMan said:


> Thank you Miss Orange in the end I decided to travel to London next month to have my Rhinoplasty with Jag Chana. It is so hard to decide on a surgeon and all of your research here is much appreciated.
> 
> A couple of years ago I saw the 1980s model Marie Helvin in London and felt quite sad at how gaunt her face was,  she would have been 65 and was exceptionally slim and it had taken a toll on her face.
> I remembered the old french saying attributed to Coco Chanel, “A trente ans, une femme doit choisir entre son derrière et son visage.”    You will not have this problem @miss Orange you can stay slim and still have the full face of youth.
> 
> But the Hair stylist….hmmm I would not always take notice of other people,  to have beauty sometimes provokes envy,  but to keep beauty into your fifties and beyond and to still appear to be in your twenties is outrageous!  I imagine you must leave some people fuming with jealousy.  The average 56 year old will feel threatened to have someone of their age looking the age of their grand daughter!
> 
> Now I hope that you will start making plans for your age 70 facelift, because it would be quite appropriate if you started your own discreet surgery advisory service and people could pay a fee to ask for advice, using not just your medical background but surgical experience.  It is such a minefield trying to find a surgeon and get good advice. There is a huge gap in the market for something like this.   All of the fees from your advisory service will pay for the age 70 rejuvenation. Although I'm not so sure you don't just have a portrait in the attic that ages like Dorian Grey.


@GrumpyOldMan Good luck with your rhinoplasty with Jag next month! Is he doing a rib rhino or ear cartilage rhino? Are you getting an open or closed rhino? Is this a primary or revision?


----------



## MissOrange

I may need to revisit ASPS clinic. I forgot they are well renowned for facelifts! Here is a b&a which includes fat grafting. The prices are more affordable than the Bio clinic. That could be me at 70 on the left and then looking 30 again on the right! lol. The formula is correct. The lady had upper bleph with lid fat graft like I had 7 years ago with Dr Seo, the full face fat graft has added volume back to her deflated face and then the lift has completed her reverse aging process.


----------



## Otto8

@miss Orange, please can I just confirm that initially, you started out with:

1.  Upper bleph
Was skin removed? How much skin was removed? Did you have a brow lift? 

2.  Fat transfer
Whole face or just around the eyes is recommended?  When one says whole face, which areas of the face would that include? 

Lid fat transfer would be to the eyelids only?  I am afraid of puffy eyes though.  Sounds silly and crazy.  I am clueless.

Thank you so much.  I am only just starting out and sometimes, it can be so confusing.


----------



## Transformation2021

Ooh la la no need for FC girls


----------



## Transformation2021

A real granny to granddaughter transformation 12 months post. Can you believe it? If I were her I would be doing a happy dance.


----------



## Transformation2021

Patient said on RealSelf "I love my fresh natural look" - she's got to be kidding - that's an understatement! She's gone from looking like a scary axe murderer aged 77 to this!!!


----------



## Transformation2021




----------



## Lien

Transformation2021 said:


> Patient said on RealSelf "I love my fresh natural look" - she's got to be kidding - that's an understatement! She's gone from looking like a scary axe murderer aged 77 to this!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5392959



Your comment cracked me up!


----------



## MissOrange

I am just over 3 months now and have been on HRT for 7 weeks now. I thought I would do a comparison of VR1 vs VR2 with HRT. Interesting! Can’t tell if it was the HRT or the extra skin trim in VR2 that makes VR2 look better than VR1 with its marionette line and jowl. I found out that PDS suture only has 25% of its tensile strength at 6 weeks! And it is all gone from 130 days. I am approaching May 31 when I will truly know if the smas holds past 4 months without any pds sutures left.


----------



## Transformation2021

Non-surgical all done with radio frequency skin tightening and injectables


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Non-surgical all done with radio frequency skin tightening and injectables
> 
> View attachment 5395596


@Transformation2021 the word radiofrequency scares me as does microneedling.

I am now exploring testosterone replacement to bring back my genius IQ! I had no idea it is the third female hormone that needs replacing after the menopause and how 1 in 4 women have reduced hours or quit work due to memory problems after the menopause!

Here is Dr Zoe Hodson explaining why testosterone is vital to replace so the brain works after menopause to prevent dementia in women! 

I have asked for a referral to chelwest menopause clinic to get started on testogel for myself! My memory is so poor I have to write something down within seconds or it is gone from my brain!

With 2 days to go to wedding photos, I may need to inject radiesse into my nasolabials as I am back down to 94 lbs and my lower face is looking gaunt! Although I am worried as my brother flew in from America and saw my face and said did I get cheek injections? OMG! My cheeks must look so fat when I smile or laugh! Do NOT get smas plication if you already have a round face!


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> @Transformation2021 the word radiofrequency scares me as does microneedling.
> 
> I am now exploring testosterone replacement to bring back my genius IQ! I had no idea it is the third female hormone that needs replacing after the menopause and how 1 in 4 women have reduced hours or quit work due to memory problems after the menopause!
> 
> Here is Dr Zoe Hodson explaining why testosterone is vital to replace so the brain works after menopause to prevent dementia in women!
> 
> I have asked for a referral to chelwest menopause clinic to get started on testogel for myself! My memory is so poor I have to write something down within seconds or it is gone from my brain!
> 
> With 2 days to go to wedding photos, I may need to inject radiesse into my nasolabials as I am back down to 94 lbs and my lower face is looking gaunt! Although I am worried as my brother flew in from America and saw my face and said did I get cheek injections? OMG! My cheeks must look so fat when I smile or laugh! Do NOT get smas plication if you already have a round face!




I love how your surgery has turned out! Maybe try to hold off on extras until after the wedding. I don't see your face being gaunt. But that is me though. I am super cautious and go by the mantra: less is more. I think you are so gorgeous already! I would love to look as gorgeous as you when I am your age.

I think when it comes to our faces, we are more critical, perhaps? Maybe we see more flaws, but others passing by will only focus on the total look of a face and see a pleasant or meh look. I think one would have to peer very closely at a face for a while to pick out any awful bits, in which case, at that level of nit-picking, every face would have its flaws.

Haha, I am one to talk! Particularly when I am at times (around the time of my period, usually and I wonder why) convinced that I have a fat lower face when everyone else says the opposite.

Have a glorious time at the wedding!  You have worked hard and deserve this celebration of yourself too, as the mother of the bride (who looks like the sister, more likely).


----------



## Otto8

Transformation2021 said:


> Non-surgical all done with radio frequency skin tightening and injectables
> 
> View attachment 5395596



Oh my goodness, I want this!


----------



## catelet

Lien said:


> Your comment cracked me up!


And I find these cruel comments by @Transformation2021 offensive. In my country we consider this hate speech as well as racist (targeting white womens' before photos with her most hateful words), also misogynistic.


----------



## Otto8

catelet said:


> And I find these cruel comments by @Transformation2021 offensive. In my country we consider this hate speech as well as racist (targeting white womens' before photos with her most hateful words), also misogynistic.



I don't see any racist or misogyistic remarks in any of her posts.  Axe murderers can exist within any culture or race.

If these posts by @Transformation2021 offend, I am sure it was unintentional and all said in good humour and the positive camaraderie of the plastic surgery woes we all share.

Your accusations are unfounded because not once has anyone mentioned colour nor race. On the other hand, you have.

Please don't see vitriol when there is none.

As always, you and others are welcome to bypass any threads or posts that you believe offend you. As in, just don't read these posts, then.


----------



## Tivo

Transformation2021 said:


> From looking tired and old before your time to cute and sexy again
> View attachment 5384055


Surgeon’s name? These pics are great and all but if there is no Dr to look up and confirm, what is the point? It could be photoshop


----------



## catlover6

GrumpyOldMan said:


> Miss Orange,  I was concerned about Coppergate Clinic insisting on having your NHS number and that they demand they contact your GP about whatever private cosmetic surgery you have with them.  It feels very intrusive and I do not want my GP knowing.  Neither do I want my private NHS records viewed.  Goodness,  I've never known any clinic to demand this before....... I'm so fed up because I'd thought Nick Rhodes seemed great until this.
> The thought of my horrid GP knowing,  really upsets me.
> I've never known any other clinic do this,  is it normal in your experience?


I have just been for a consultation at the Coppergate clinic. I had to fill in a form where it asked for my gp’s details, I left it blank and no one has said anything yet, but I am not sure if they will try and demand these details off me when I book in for the procedure. I also do not want my doctors being notified of the surgery and probably will look elsewhere if they insist. Was it Nick Rhodes himself that asked, or the reception team?


----------



## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> I have just been for a consultation at the Coppergate clinic. I had to fill in a form where it asked for my gp’s details, I left it blank and no one has said anything yet, but I am not sure if they will try and demand these details off me when I book in for the procedure. I also do not want my doctors being notified of the surgery and probably will look elsewhere if they insist. Was it Nick Rhodes himself that asked, or the reception team?


Not to worry @catlover6, my GP never got any letter from the Coppergate and neither did I even when I filled in my GP’s details. I think it is just an admin question so if you leave it blank it should be fine. They didn’t refer to it at consult.


----------



## MissOrange

As I rapidly approach 4 months post, I can now pinch 1-1.5 cms of loose skin in my lower face. I guess this confirms that macs and smas plication relying on sutures to hold up the smas is not as long lasting as a smasectomy facelift where the smas layer is cut and trimmed. The sutures are dissolving and the smas layer dropping. If the sutures were permanent ethibond, a similar effect may happen as mean suture displacement is 3 cms. I think @Shermainetsj was right when she posted how she had tried threadlifts, then macs and then smas facelifts. I seem to have gone down the same futile route too!

Now it is a matter of time before I need to bite the bullet and fly to Korea for extended smasectomy or try Marando’s smasectomy in Manchester. I just want to hold off for as long as possible as my face has taken a battering with fat graft and threads in/out in 2020, VR macs facelift in 2021 and smas plication facelift in 2022.


----------



## catlover6

MissOrange said:


> As I rapidly approach 4 months post, I can now pinch 1-1.5 cms of loose skin in my lower face. I guess this confirms that macs and smas plication relying on sutures to hold up the smas is not as long lasting as a smasectomy facelift where the smas layer is cut and trimmed. The sutures are dissolving and the smas layer dropping. If the sutures were permanent ethibond, a similar effect may happen as mean suture displacement is 3 cms. I think @Shermainetsj was right when she posted how she had tried threadlifts, then macs and then smas facelifts. I seem to have gone down the same futile route too!
> 
> Now it is a matter of time before I need to bite the bullet and fly to Korea for extended smasectomy or try Marando’s smasectomy in Manchester. I just want to hold off for as long as possible as my face has taken a battering with fat graft and threads in/out in 2020, VR macs facelift in 2021 and smas plication facelift in 2022.


@MissOrange oh that is a bit worrying, as I am looking to book in for the VR lift soon, when I asked at the consultation how long they expected it to last they said 5-10 years. I also asked about the smas plication and ectomy and he said he preferred the plication, but there wasn’t any difference in the longevity. I will be having the permanent sutures, as I think you had the dissolving ones, if I remember rightly? So I am hoping it’s going to last a lot longer than 6 months!


----------



## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> @MissOrange oh that is a bit worrying, as I am looking to book in for the VR lift soon, when I asked at the consultation how long they expected it to last they said 5-10 years. I also asked about the smas plication and ectomy and he said he preferred the plication, but there wasn’t any difference in the longevity. I will be having the permanent sutures, as I think you had the dissolving ones, if I remember rightly? So I am hoping it’s going to last a lot longer than 6 months!


Hi @catlover6, 2 ladies had full smas plication FL/NL in Feb and one is happy at 12 weeks but the other showed laxity at 5 weeks. Both had permanent sutures. I think for longevity, it has to be smasectomy to cut and trim the smas layer as skin keeps stretching with postop swelling and over time with gravity. Permanent ethicon sutures have a mean displacement of 3 cms.

2 ladies and I had VR last year. They had permanent sutures and I had dissolvable. We all had laxity between 3 and 6 months and 2 of us have had smas plication now and the other is booked in for later this year.

It is devastating to realise one needs a revision or retightening at 4-6 months whether one has paid for VR, smas plication or deep plane. I am seeing ladies with other surgeons needing revision and feeling they wasted £10-13k! I think facelifts cannot last 5-10 years and ladies are either getting revisions on the quiet or getting fillers ie nonsurgical facelift after the facelift shows laxity. And even DPs are not lasting 15 years. I think the manager of a Korean plastic surgery clinic was right when she said facelifts only last 1 year.


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## MissOrange

Incredibly eating birthday cake and salty fatty bulgogi meat with rice has made me gain weight from 96.2 lbs to 97.6 lbs and my face looks great! The lower face fat cells have expanded to lift my lower face. At 3.5 months my face is still good. The big hurdle will be in 2 weeks time when all the sutures will have disappeared. Yay I made it to age 56! Although my hair stylist was alarmed at how thin my hair is getting. He asked me why? I said because I will be 60 in 4 years time! lol


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## soragamii

Wow!!


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## catlover6

MissOrange said:


> Hi @catlover6, 2 ladies had full smas plication FL/NL in Feb and one is happy at 12 weeks but the other showed laxity at 5 weeks. Both had permanent sutures. I think for longevity, it has to be smasectomy to cut and trim the smas layer as skin keeps stretching with postop swelling and over time with gravity. Permanent ethicon sutures have a mean displacement of 3 cms.
> 
> 2 ladies and I had VR last year. They had permanent sutures and I had dissolvable. We all had laxity between 3 and 6 months and 2 of us have had smas plication now and the other is booked in for later this year.
> 
> It is devastating to realise one needs a revision or retightening at 4-6 months whether one has paid for VR, smas plication or deep plane. I am seeing ladies with other surgeons needing revision and feeling they wasted £10-13k! I think facelifts cannot last 5-10 years and ladies are either getting revisions on the quiet or getting fillers ie nonsurgical facelift after the facelift shows laxity. And even DPs are not lasting 15 years. I think the manager of a Korean plastic surgery clinic was right when she said facelifts only last 1 year.


@MissOrange thanks for explaining that. Yes I guess no one can tell how long it will last on individual people as we all have different skin laxity and age at different rates. I think for the price like you say, at least it’s very reasonable and I could pay 13k and it not last long either, so I will probably go ahead with it and pray it lasts a while. I am going to wear a surgery compression I think for at least 6 weeks until the swelling has subsided, maybe for even longer if I can cope with it. Do you still wear yours at all? Did you say that they give steroids to reduce swelling or not?


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## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> @MissOrange thanks for explaining that. Yes I guess no one can tell how long it will last on individual people as we all have different skin laxity and age at different rates. I think for the price like you say, at least it’s very reasonable and I could pay 13k and it not last long either, so I will probably go ahead with it and pray it lasts a while. I am going to wear a surgery compression I think for at least 6 weeks until the swelling has subsided, maybe for even longer if I can cope with it. Do you still wear yours at all? Did you say that they give steroids to reduce swelling or not?


Hi @catlover6, no they do not prescribe steroids. Only US facelift surgeons do. I stopped wearing head compression after a week postop. I wore it for a night 3 days ago which helped with the laxity.


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## zara.101

Hi everyone. can I know how long does Fat Graft/Transfer last? Is it permanent?
And any side effect?
I have been trying to google and ask consultants.
They said that it's permanent. But I also heard on PF that it only last a few years?


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## zara.101

yo


MissOrange said:


> Incredibly eating birthday cake and salty fatty bulgogi meat with rice has made me gain weight from 96.2 lbs to 97.6 lbs and my face looks great! The lower face fat cells have expanded to lift my lower face. At 3.5 months my face is still good. The big hurdle will be in 2 weeks time when all the sutures will have disappeared. Yay I made it to age 56! Although my hair stylist was alarmed at how thin my hair is getting. He asked me why? I said because I will be 60 in 4 years time! lol
> 
> View attachment 5404169



You look like you are in your 20's/30's!!!


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## Transformation2021

I won't mention the woman with Shar-Pei jowls in case anyone gets offended. These are all SMAS lifts under twilight.


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## Transformation2021

This liquid facelift was done by an Australian clinic in a small city. Kudos to them. Results beat any injectors I have been following in Taiwan, Seoul and Singapore who are considered masters of the game and trainers for filler companies.
If she went to surgeon I bet they would recommend at least a MACS lift. She went from looking a tired mid-40's, early 50's to a youthful 32, IMO


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## MissOrange

zara.101 said:


> Hi everyone. can I know how long does Fat Graft/Transfer last? Is it permanent?
> And any side effect?
> I have been trying to google and ask consultants.
> They said that it's permanent. But I also heard on PF that it only last a few years?


Hi @zara.101 welcome! Alas it is not permanent. Fat graft cells reabsorb so need top ups. But if you eat a high fat and protein diet for 4 months posr fat graft it helps the cells survive longer.


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## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> This liquid facelift was done by an Australian clinic in a small city. Kudos to them. Results beat any injectors I have been following in Taiwan, Seoul and Singapore who are considered masters of the game and trainers for filler companies.
> If she went to surgeon I bet they would recommend at least a MACS lift. She went from looking a tired mid-40's, early 50's to a youthful 32, IMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5408172


@Transformation2021 never trust photos as they can be photoshopped!


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## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> I won't mention the woman with Shar-Pei jowls in case anyone gets offended. These are all SMAS lifts under twilight.
> View attachment 5408064
> 
> View attachment 5408065


I contacted them. The 'Eve' FL/NL costs $15-$18k. Question is what type of FL?


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## MissOrange

Word of caution. Be very careful in facelift fb groups. Ladies may resort to using face apps, filters, photoshops to reveal an incredible after FL face to garner 100s of likes and comnents praising their new found youth and beauty. I fell for one such lady's after photo. The first photo is the one she posted saying it was 16 days post FL with Nick Rhodes. I saw this 59 yo's photo and immediately booked him. I have covered her eyes for anonymity but she had posted without hiding her eyes so I felt I could trust the full face photo.

Then I chatted with her privately and she told me she was happy but getting a little tweakment for a small jowl. I thought that odd as she looked perfect and came across a youtube video of her 7 months post her VR. OMG I realised I had been plastic surgery cat fished. The second photo is a screenshot from the video with no filters or photoshop.

She then got a revision with Nick and yet again posted a photoshopped after for further praise and likes in a facelift fb group.

Another thing ladies do is find very old befores from when they were obese and post this as a before FL so the after looks more dramatic when actually they lost all the weight before a FL so actually the difference is very minimal or the before actually looked more natural and beautiful than the after but they don't want to post that so they choose a time when they looked the worst and weighed much more to use as a before.

It taught me a lesson. Never trust selfies. Look for videos. Don't be plastic surgery cat fished!


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## MissOrange

Then there is the 24 mm front lens of a phone creating a fishbowl selfie vs the 85 mm truer camera portrait lens. This lady posted a deep plane FL after selfie that looked too good to be true. Her face had slimmed a lot and looked longer than her before when in actuality her post FL real face looked wider and rounder with a 85 mm portrait lens. This after then matched the surgeon's before in shape and looked like a realistic improvement in the jowls.

I am waiting for the official 85 mm wedding photos to see what I truly look like. I look good in both the front and rear phone cameras and I look good in the mirror so this is a good sign for now.


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## MissOrange

Here is my rear android phone selfie vs my front android phone selfie. Both taken within a minute of each other. So far so good. May 31 is 17 weeks for me when all the pds sutures disappear.


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## MissOrange

At 15 weeks and 6 days post smas plication I have visible skin laxity when I tilt my head downwards, more on the right than on the left. I had mentioned twice that my skin on the right side of my face was looser than the left but both times Nick said he removes the same amount from each side. I now have a good left side and a not so good right side. Not bad enough for Korea yet and still acceptable for age 56! lol.


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## Summer78888

MissOrange said:


> At 15 weeks and 6 days post smas plication I have visible skin laxity when I tilt my head downwards, more on the right than on the left. I had mentioned twice that my skin on the right side of my face was looser than the left but both times Nick said he removes the same amount from each side. I now have a good left side and a not so good right side. Not bad enough for Korea yet and still acceptable for age 56! lol.
> 
> View attachment 5409852
> 
> 
> View attachment 5409853


Have you had an upper and lower eye lift?  Your eyes look fantastic as well as your jawline


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## MissOrange

Summer78888 said:


> Have you had an upper and lower eye lift?  Your eyes look fantastic as well as your jawline


Hi @Summer78888, Yes Dr Seo who now owns his own clinic Machimpyo did my upper eyelids 6 years ago and they still look great as he did ptosis muscle repair and fat grafting with top up. I had lower bleph only once 15 years ago in the uk when I saw eye bags in my 40s. Dr Seo is the best for Asian natural beautiful eyes and corrects botches done elsewhere too. As for the jawline, take the selfie from above to create a v line jawline. 

I still can't believe I am 56. British people treat me like a teen in public when I go out without makeup.


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## MissOrange

Dr Dongman Park's latest patient on IG flew in from Minnesota! I can't believe she has no swelling on day 3 and looks this super! Even my Brazilian hair stylist made me promise to get my next facelift in Korea! I wish he were cheaper. I may not be able to afford him. Sigh.


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## MissOrange

Do mirrors in Harrods make you look thinner? I took a selfie using the rear phone camera of my reflection in a mirror at Harrods. Okay my body looks tiny as I weigh 97 lbs but not this thin surely? It made my face look thin and long. Sigh. Great optical illusion in a store mirror. I wish my face looked this good. Although it is of my good left side of my face, and I did have arm lipo a few years ago before covid lockdown.


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## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Do mirrors in Harrods make you look thinner? I took a selfie using the rear phone camera of my reflection in a mirror at Harrods. Okay my body looks tiny as I weigh 97 lbs but not this thin surely? It made my face look thin and long. Sigh. Great optical illusion in a store mirror. I wish my face looked this good. Although it is of my good left side of my face, and I did have arm lipo a few years ago before covid lockdown.
> 
> View attachment 5412381



The angle is distorted though. Not sure if its the mirror or the positon you holding the camera. I noticed this too recently in my full length mirror at home. if i take a selfie with the phone camera low down there, it makes my head look out of proportion to my body and it shrinks my physique, making me look shorter than i am. When i lift the phone camera higher up to around my chin level, thats when the photo becomes more proportionate and realistic


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## MissOrange

K Couture said:


> The angle is distorted though. Not sure if its the mirror or the positon you holding the camera. I noticed this too recently in my full length mirror at home. if i take a selfie with the phone camera low down there, it makes my head look out of proportion to my body and it shrinks my physique, making me look shorter than i am. When i lift the phone camera higher up to around my chin level, thats when the photo becomes more proportionate and realistic


Oh what a relief! Thank you @K Couture! I shall remember to take photos at chin level! I was beginning to think my head was too big for my body and blaming all the fat grafts I put in my face! lol


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## K Couture

MissOrange said:


> Oh what a relief! Thank you @K Couture! I shall remember to take photos at chin level! I was beginning to think my head was too big for my body and blaming all the fat grafts I put in my face! lol



Oh the wrong angle can really fuk with your head. I had that problem too. In the mirror i looked fabulous as i checked myself out before a night out. then i took the selfie and was like.....is my head too big for my body? what is going on. Then i realized it was the angle


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## jason748

Hi when I inquired about getting Zygoma cheekbone and Mandible jaw reduction, I was told I can get SMAS facelift at the same time. My face is already sagging at an early age from significant weight loss so I definitely need it regardless of whether I reduce reduce my cheekbone/jaw. 

But how come I never hear about anyone getting FC+SMAS facelift at the same time? Is it a bad idea? I'd rather just do it all in one procedure.


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## K Couture

jason748 said:


> Hi when I inquired about getting Zygoma cheekbone and Mandible jaw reduction, I was told I can get SMAS facelift at the same time. My face is already sagging at an early age from significant weight loss so I definitely need it regardless of whether I reduce reduce my cheekbone/jaw.
> 
> But how come I never hear about anyone getting FC+SMAS facelift at the same time? Is it a bad idea? I'd rather just do it all in one procedure.



thats an awful awful idea. You cannot accurately predict how much sagging you will have following a zygoma and mandible reduction so results is guaranteed to be subpar. There is one lady who did this in the past. Her name is Mrsking she wrote of her experience and how she needed to go back for revision lifts soon after. The posts should be about 4-5 years back if you do a search


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## MissOrange

I sent my photos to Dr Dongman Park via messenger on IG and instead of a detailed assessment, I got a banal response to come to Korea after the pandemic was over. Doesn’t sound like they showed Dr Park. I was asking how long after smas plication could I then get Dr Park’s extended smasectomy? Whether he had a free revision policy for up to a year? What his opinion was of my current face. Sigh. The pandemic is over in the UK. Is it still going on in Korea? I thought foreigners could now enter without quarantine?


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## Mimmiesmama

I think you look great Ms Orange. I would agree with the less is more approach. Give yourself time to heal. How about JK plastic surgery for face lift ? Anyone heard about their facelift results they have some nice videos on you tube .I went there for my rhinoplasty consult and quite liked the clinic and surgeons but didn’t go there in the end as I felt at the time they were overcharging although in retrospect it was almost equivalent to what I paid elsewhere.


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## MissOrange

I went back to wearing my £5 ebay china v line bandage and drinking water and wow! Here is a b&a collage of wearing the bandage for 2 hours a day and drinking more water. I shall use this conservative approach for now. There are 2 working theories...the more facelifts one has, the tighter the face eventually gets vs smasectomy. I still need to research this as I am not 100% convinced of the longevity of a smasectomy and do not want to spend £12k-£20k to find out. I definitely do not look 56!


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## MissOrange

Here is definitive proof that macs lifts and smas plication facelifts may not last past 4 months. The top selfies are hours before my VR macs lift on July 5 2021 and the bottom selfies were 16.5 weeks after my second VR (Jan 31) taken on May 28 2022 which was actually a smas plication. £4k and 8 months after 2 facelifts and little to no difference. The smas lift by sutures holds no longer than pdo threads in my opinion. I have not gone back to fillers or botox. What b&a photos of surgeon's IG do not tell you is if ladies used botox or fillers in their afters so it may not necessarily be indicative of FL longevity if they used fillers for a nonsurgical facelift in the interim.


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## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> I went back to wearing my £5 ebay china v line bandage and drinking water and wow! Here is a b&a collage of wearing the bandage for 2 hours a day and drinking more water. I shall use this conservative approach for now. There are 2 working theories...the more facelifts one has, the tighter the face eventually gets vs smasectomy. I still need to research this as I am not 100% convinced of the longevity of a smasectomy and do not want to spend £12k-£20k to find out. I definitely do not look 56!
> 
> View attachment 5414843
> 
> 
> View attachment 5414844



It is difficult to tell because your before-wearing picture has no makeup but after, you have make-up.  

But if it works, that's great!


----------



## Fraulein

Does anyone have experience with The Plan PS?  

I had a consultation with Seoul Guide Medical - omg. they take forever and after a month they provided recommendations at the View and ID.   I asked which doctors and they didn't give me any names.   They said they would get back to me.  Apparently all the clinics are extremely busy.    I have attached their prices.   When I asked about other clinics they said that they didn't have a relationship with those clinics so I think they just pick large hospitals that have doctors for everything under the sun.


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## Fraulein

I think I will have to do what I did when I got my nose done - which is make two trips - one in which I meet with 5-8 cinics.  Then a second trip in which I schedule the surgery at the clinic I've decided on.  I would do it in one trip but I think scheduling that quickly with a good doctor is not going to be that easy.


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## K Couture

Fraulein said:


> Does anyone have experience with The Plan PS?
> 
> I had a consultation with Seoul Guide Medical - omg. they take forever and after a month they provided recommendations at the View and ID.   I asked which doctors and they didn't give me any names.   They said they would get back to me.  Apparently all the clinics are extremely busy.    I have attached their prices.   When I asked about other clinics they said that they didn't have a relationship with those clinics so I think they just pick large hospitals that have doctors for everything under the sun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5415543


those are agency prices with commission. Just contact the clinics on your own you will find the prices are much much lower than that in reality. Plus even lower after you bargain in person.


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## Fraulein

K Couture said:


> those are agency prices with commission. Just contact the clinics on your own you will find the prices are much much lower than that in reality. Plus even lower after you bargain in person.


Do you know any interpreters who are active now?  I used to use Carol but she seems to have gone MIA.   I would like a bilingual point person for consultations.


----------



## Fraulein

Also, has anyone done a sub-brow lift?   I've had multiple eye revisions and the last surgeon cut too much skin so I cannot have them touch my eyes again.  They droop and I was told a brow lift would help but then someone said that it would have minimal effect.   If anyone has experience with a sub-brow lift please let me know.  Thanks!


----------



## K Couture

Fraulein said:


> Also, has anyone done a sub-brow lift?   I've had multiple eye revisions and the last surgeon cut too much skin so I cannot have them touch my eyes again.  They droop and I was told a brow lift would help but then someone said that it would have minimal effect.   If anyone has experience with a sub-brow lift please let me know.  Thanks!



Subbrow lifts are bad. They dont last long and leave a scar. Do an actual forehead lift. Thats the correct way to address the brows. I just did my endoscopic brow lift a week ago and loving my results. Also, you dont need an interpreter. Most clinics have translators and most surgeons speak decent to proficient english so communication never been an issue for me in korea


----------



## Fraulein

got it. Thanks K Couture - by the way - are you open to giving your top 5 clinics for anti-aging.  I plan to go in about two months and will be scheduling consultations.   So far I have:   PlanPS, JW, Wonjin, BioClinic and currently undecided on ID and the View.


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## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> Subbrow lifts are bad. They dont last long and leave a scar. Do an actual forehead lift. Thats the correct way to address the brows. I just did my endoscopic brow lift a week ago and loving my results. Also, you dont need an interpreter. Most clinics have translators and most surgeons speak decent to proficient english so communication never been an issue for me in korea


Hey KC which clinic did your browlift? I presume you had an endoscopic lift.


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## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> Hey KC which clinic did your browlift? I presume you had an endoscopic lift.



Went to hyundai. yeh i did the endoscopic method. I didnt need hairline lowering so i didnt do the incisional one.


----------



## MissOrange

Weird how drinking more water and eating more red meat is making my face better at 17.5 weeks with smas plication than VR1. I wonder if the more skin that is resected, ie more facelifts, help tighten the face and protein is needed for facial muscles and the smas?


----------



## MissOrange

Fraulein said:


> got it. Thanks K Couture - by the way - are you open to giving your top 5 clinics for anti-aging.  I plan to go in about two months and will be scheduling consultations.   So far I have:   PlanPS, JW, Wonjin, BioClinic and currently undecided on ID and the View.


Hi @Fraulein, choose the View over ID as ID had a patient death in the past.


----------



## Transformation2021

K Couture said:


> Went to hyundai. yeh i did the endoscopic method. I didnt need hairline lowering so i didnt do the incisional one.



You have me thinking about Hyundai now. No doctor switching, so you got the guy you consulted with. Unless you're really familiar with the rock stars, how would one know if you're getting a specialist?
Funny Hyundai's Insta page have no b&a on browlifts but they push sub-brow lifts to the max even on young girls. I must say the results are spectacular.


----------



## Transformation2021

Hey @K Couture are you having your lips done at Hyundai too? This is A GUY. Kissable lips? or no?


----------



## Transformation2021

Hyundai's facelifts are pretty impressive too.
The woman on the Left is ready to be cast as the King's Consort in a Chinese Historical Drama.
Someone commented that the woman on the Right should have have her eyes down.  I think she did have her upper lids done as they're no longer droopy but the results are subtle and suits her face.


----------



## Transformation2021

WTF? This is how Hyundai (Dr Hong is The Man) does philtrum reduction. He doesn't do the bullhorn lift done in the West.
I think lifting Hyundai's why will lead to drooping earlier. Also stitching under the nose tends to high the scar. But the Hyundai lips do look cute, but for how long??


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> WTF? This is how Hyundai (Dr Hong is The Man) does philtrum reduction. He doesn't do the bullhorn lift done in the West.
> I think lifting Hyundai's why will lead to drooping earlier. Also stitching under the nose tends to high the scar. But the Hyundai lips do look cute, but for how long??
> View attachment 5418212
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5418213
> 
> View attachment 5418214


MissO, if I'm not mistaken, I think the Hyundai method is the vermillion liplift that you had done at DA and then had to do a bullhorn lift back in the UK.  Although it's not a bad idea to do both as the vermillion lip lift exposes more of the mucous membrane to create a 'fuller' look.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> MissO, if I'm not mistaken, I think the Hyundai method is the vermillion liplift that you had done at DA and then had to do a bullhorn lift back in the UK.  Although it's not a bad idea to do both as the vermillion lip lift exposes more of the mucous membrane to create a 'fuller' look.



I beg your pardon. Hyundai do bullhorn liplifts but they don't recommend it if you have an excessively long philtrum.


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## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> Hey KC which clinic did your browlift? I presume you had an endoscopic lift.


Hey KC
Did you have an endotine forehead lift. That’s all I could find on Hyundai. If yes give us the goss as quite a few people mentioned the pain for some can lasts for several weeks to months, depending on the individual. The clips take from 6-9 months to dissolve. I guess you must be feeling ok if you can go out to have your hair washed.


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> MissO, if I'm not mistaken, I think the Hyundai method is the vermillion liplift that you had done at DA and then had to do a bullhorn lift back in the UK.  Although it's not a bad idea to do both as the vermillion lip lift exposes more of the mucous membrane to create a 'fuller' look.


Hi @Transformation2021 I had vermillion lip lift at MVP with Dr Choi not at DA. It doesn’t last as it is just a skin lift and by 6 months my upper lip was super thin. What Dr Choi did do which I appreciate is cut out old fillers and scar tissue so I no longer had duck lips and his suturing was so fine, I have no visible upper lip scar so no harm done. I think vermillion lip lifts and corner lip lifts do not last as the muscle is not cut and tightened like it can be with bullhorn lip lift. It was the bullhorn that everted my upper lip as if you cut off enough philtrum, the lip naturally everts with a shorter philtrum. If your upper lip is still thin, then not enough philtrum was excised.


----------



## K Couture

Transformation2021 said:


> Hey @K Couture are you having your lips done at Hyundai too? This is A GUY. Kissable lips? or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5418196





Transformation2021 said:


> You have me thinking about Hyundai now. No doctor switching, so you got the guy you consulted with. Unless you're really familiar with the rock stars, how would one know if you're getting a specialist?
> Funny Hyundai's Insta page have no b&a on browlifts but they push sub-brow lifts to the max even on young girls. I must say the results are spectacular.
> View attachment 5418193





Transformation2021 said:


> Hey KC
> Did you have an endotine forehead lift. That’s all I could find on Hyundai. If yes give us the goss as quite a few people mentioned the pain for some can lasts for several weeks to months, depending on the individual. The clips take from 6-9 months to dissolve. I guess you must be feeling ok if you can go out to have your hair washed.



I wasnt in any pain from the forehead lift. I have no scars either. He did it from inside the hairline so no bums. and yes i did the lip lift too. My forehead and lips done to perfection. I did some facial lipo too but can't see results yet. Still pretty swollen in the right cheek though


----------



## CJYin

K Couture said:


> I wasnt in any pain from the forehead lift. I have no scars either. He did it from inside the hairline so no bums. and yes i did the lip lift too. My forehead and lips done to perfection. I did some facial lipo too but can't see results yet. Still pretty swollen in the right cheek though


Oh wow, so would you recommend Hyundai for bullhorn lip lifts? Are you able to/would you mind sharing how much it was? I was considering forking out the extra $ for Dr Nettle but if there's a good surgeon in Korea that would be great.


----------



## MissOrange

2 facelifts are better than 1 and make sure you get steroids postop to prevent postop swelling stretching the skin as the skin will also be stretched during intraop undermining. No wonder US surgeons prescribe steroids. UK surgeons don't and one does but underprescribes. What about Korean surgeons? 

I am now leaning more to the theory that getting 2-3 cheap facelifts to keep trimming loose skin is more effective than one expensive deep plane or extended smasectomy £13-27k facelift. The skin inevitably stretches from undermining the skin, postop swelling and gravity. This means a second facelift within a year to retighten may be needed. 

Thus far my 2 facelifts have resulted in a better result than my 1 and I have yet to have a bad sag face day at 18 weeks postop. I have noticed that eating more meat/protein to build muscles also helps. I have made it a point to eat 'gogi' every day.


----------



## Transformation2021

CJYin said:


> Oh wow, so would you recommend Hyundai for bullhorn lip lifts? Are you able to/would you mind sharing how much it was? I was considering forking out the extra $ for Dr Nettle but if there's a good surgeon in Korea that would be great.


Read my post about Hyundai's lip lifts.  They say they do bullhorn but don't recommend it for long philtre which is VERY ODD. They mostly do Vermillon lift which is what MissO had at MVP. There is another forum-mer who did the same, they BOTH said the lift failed in a short space of time. MissO and I believe Korean doctor are not skilled in bullhorn lifts and are both scared of scarring. MissO then had her bullhorn lift done in the UK. If you can afford it go to Dr Nettle, he's the best in Australia at the moment for bullhorn lifts.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> Read my post about Hyundai's lip lifts.  They say they do bullhorn but don't recommend it for long philtre which is VERY ODD. They mostly do Vermillon lift which is what MissO had at MVP. There is another forum-mer who did the same, they BOTH said the lift failed in a short space of time. MissO and I believe Korean doctor are not skilled in bullhorn lifts and are both scared of scarring. MissO then had her bullhorn lift done in the UK. If you can afford it go to Dr Nettle, he's the best in Australia at the moment for bullhorn lifts.


Bloody auto correct *philtrum*


----------



## CJYin

Transformation2021 said:


> Read my post about Hyundai's lip lifts.  They say they do bullhorn but don't recommend it for long philtre which is VERY ODD. They mostly do Vermillon lift which is what MissO had at MVP. There is another forum-mer who did the same, they BOTH said the lift failed in a short space of time. MissO and I believe Korean doctor are not skilled in bullhorn lifts and are both scared of scarring. MissO then had her bullhorn lift done in the UK. If you can afford it go to Dr Nettle, he's the best in Australia at the moment for bullhorn lifts.


Yeah I've read everything MissO has said on lip lifts, I'm certainly not interested in vermilion. I was hoping I could get them to do bullhorn regardless. Some information I've just received is the Dr Nettle is no longer accepting patients, I believe he is booked out.... Last time I checked in March, the next available consult was December so I guess the wait list became too much. Thanks for the advice regardless. I booked a longer South Korea trip than necessary so might consult with Hyundai to see what they say. If Kcouture had a good experience it would be really great to not have to wait potentially a year or more for the procedure.


----------



## K Couture

CJYin said:


> Oh wow, so would you recommend Hyundai for bullhorn lip lifts? Are you able to/would you mind sharing how much it was? I was considering forking out the extra $ for Dr Nettle but if there's a good surgeon in Korea that would be great.



I had the bullhorn lift done yeah. So far the results are perfect. I was worried about scarring but I have none actually. My scars are hidden inside the nostril and the one under my collumela looks like a scratch. My lips pretty much went back to 20s lips and juicy and when I use my liquid lipstick + lip strobe over it looks super juicy. Im not sure how much I paid since it was packaged up with my forehead lift and vertical cathopexy and facial lipo but I believe it might be only about 2.3-2.5 mill krw?


----------



## CJYin

K Couture said:


> I had the bullhorn lift done yeah. So far the results are perfect. I was worried about scarring but I have none actually. My scars are hidden inside the nostril and the one under my collumela looks like a scratch. My lips pretty much went back to 20s lips and juicy and when I use my liquid lipstick + lip strobe over it looks super juicy. Im not sure how much I paid since it was packaged up with my forehead lift and vertical cathopexy and facial lipo but I believe it might be only about 2.3-2.5 mill krw?


Thank you for sharing, that is really helpful to know


----------



## Fraulein

I have a consultation with Dr Linkov on Monday.


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## Transformation2021

Fraulein said:


> I have a consultation with Dr Linkov on Monday.



Linkov is pretty good


----------



## jaytee228

MissOrange said:


> 2 facelifts are better than 1 and make sure you get steroids postop to prevent postop swelling stretching the skin as the skin will also be stretched during intraop undermining. No wonder US surgeons prescribe steroids. UK surgeons don't and one does but underprescribes. What about Korean surgeons?
> 
> I am now leaning more to the theory that getting 2-3 cheap facelifts to keep trimming loose skin is more effective than one expensive deep plane or extended smasectomy £13-27k facelift. The skin inevitably stretches from undermining the skin, postop swelling and gravity. This means a second facelift within a year to retighten may be needed.
> 
> Thus far my 2 facelifts have resulted in a better result than my 1 and I have yet to have a bad sag face day at 18 weeks postop. I have noticed that eating more meat/protein to build muscles also helps. I have made it a point to eat 'gogi' every day.
> 
> View attachment 5418990


Hello. may I ask where you had your face lifts done ? Thank you !!


----------



## catlover6

@MissOrange I have my VR lift booked for a couple of months time, they sent me some forms to fill in beforehand. One question is asking for my NHS number, were you asked for this? And do you know why they want it, it’s seems a bit personal.


----------



## Transformation2021

CEO of Aging-L Kim Soo-Cheol, the master of face lift surgery. He is a pioneer in face lift surgery with 22 years of experience


----------



## Transformation2021

More from Aging-L


----------



## Otto8

I find @MissOrange's pictures the most helpful and her experience and advice the most helpful.

I find this thread by @MissOrange with its original intentions and this article below on realself extremely useful: 

https://www.realself.com/question/uk-smas-facelift-difference-plication-imbrication-suspension

@K Couture kindly recommended it as I was (still am) so confused but at least this article has made me question the different types of FL and I feel I am better able to ask questions.

As you know, with consultations, the surgeon won't tell you unless you ask the right questions.


----------



## calathea24

MissOrange said:


> Update to my research on steroids. Dr Karam does give steroids but intraop as IV dexamethasone to reduce postop swelling! Dr Talei prescribes a postop steroid pack. And Dr Jacono gives up to 2 rounds of postop steroids if needed. That means the BIG 3 FL surgeons in the US all give steroids to reduce skin stretching from postop swelling!!!
> 
> I think for those getting facial fat transfer a course of postop oral pred or iv dex may also help.


Hi you look so beautiful! Where did you get your transfer and lift done?


----------



## MissOrange

calathea24 said:


> Hi you look so beautiful! Where did you get your transfer and lift done?


Hi @calathea24 I got my fat transfer done in Korea with Dr Hyo Seok Seo and my lift done by Dr Nick Rhodes in York, UK.


----------



## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> @MissOrange I have my VR lift booked for a couple of months time, they sent me some forms to fill in beforehand. One question is asking for my NHS number, were you asked for this? And do you know why they want it, it’s seems a bit personal.


Hi @catlover6, Wow you are booked for VR! I assume they want your nhs number in the rare case of emergencies. You don't have to disclose.


----------



## MissOrange

jaytee228 said:


> Hello. may I ask where you had your face lifts done ? Thank you !!


Hi @jaytee228 welcome to tpf. I had my facelifts done by Dr Nick Rhodes of Coppergate Clinic in York, UK.


----------



## Transformation2021

LAging
View attachment 5421715


----------



## jaytee228

MissOrange said:


> Hi @jaytee228 welcome to tpf. I had my facelifts done by Dr Nick Rhodes of Coppergate Clinic in York, UK.



thank you for your reply.  I was hoping it was in S Korea LOL.  And thank you for all of your shared ps knowledge/experiences, they're very informative and helpful.


----------



## MissOrange

Even the 49 yo First Lady of Korea had plastic surgery. Imo she may have had fat grafting and a facelift and necklift between December 26 2021 when she gave her public apology and May 2022 her first appearance as First Lady. The first collage is of her befores on December 26, 2021 and the second collage is of her afters last month. I wish I knew who did her facelift?


----------



## Otto8

Oh, she is gorgeous!


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> Oh, she is gorgeous!


Fascinating to see her before when younger. Looks like she may have had double eyelid surgery in the past and a rhinoplasty in my opinion. The nose tip is higher now. I want that wispy hairstyle!


----------



## Otto8

If I have a facelift, I will definitely style my hair like that -   a longish bob.


----------



## Fraulein

Transformation2021 said:


> Linkov is pretty good


Linkov rejected all my requests - said it was too early for a facelift, didn't think a brow lift would improve my eyes, didn't recommend a lip lift because my lips are already very full and it would make them look really large.  kinda bummed.  Bioclinic also wouldn't really entertain a facelift through photos I sent.  I want the jawline and cheeks a bit tighter though.  Recommended I see Guy Massry in LA if I want to have my eyes fixed.    Not sure if I should go to Korea.


----------



## Fraulein

Also, my point person in Korea who is a native told me that it's illegal for doctors to quote surgery prices over the phone.  Hmmmm.  I wonder if they have a separate rule for foreigners.


----------



## Transformation2021

Fraulein said:


> Linkov rejected all my requests - said it was too early for a facelift, didn't think a brow lift would improve my eyes, didn't recommend a lip lift because my lips are already very full and it would make them look really large.  kinda bummed.  Bioclinic also wouldn't really entertain a facelift through photos I sent.  I want the jawline and cheeks a bit tighter though.  Recommended I see Guy Massry in LA if I want to have my eyes fixed.    Not sure if I should go to Korea.


Massry is a master.


----------



## Transformation2021

Transformation2021 said:


> Massry is a master.


Massry has some sort of affiliation with a clinic in China. However he always does a Temple or outer brow lift as it this allows a good bleph and must be treated together. I agree with him. Look at his results on Instagram.
The other Eye God is KamiParsa Oculo Surgeon BHills. 
The two of them have done successful surgeries on Asians.


----------



## Fraulein

First availability for his $600 consultation is ... Nov 15.


----------



## Fraulein

Who is the korean equivalent to Guy Massry?


----------



## beautifullife1712

hi @MissOrange, it's been a long time since I read this thread. Can you update your breast fat graft ? Is it still okay ? 

Does anyone has any information where I can explant the breast implant with enbloc method in Asia ?

Thanks before


----------



## MissOrange

beautifullife1712 said:


> hi @MissOrange, it's been a long time since I read this thread. Can you update your breast fat graft ? Is it still okay ?
> 
> Does anyone has any information where I can explant the breast implant with enbloc method in Asia ?
> 
> Thanks before


Hi @beautifullife1712, I love my breast FT.  It has now been 22 months and they are still full. I am more a 30e or 32dd bra size now rather than a 32e or 34dd, still big for my petite frame. No return of the tubular defect and the shape is still great and symmetrical.

I have a mammogram booked for Friday. Dreading as the tech pulls, stretches and squashes the boobs in the machine and I do not want to stretch my breasts.

Explant en bloc is very important. David Floyd does this and of course did my breast fat transfer. My only imperfection are my nipples from the periareolar mastopexy done elsewhere and the laser burn. But after repair at ChelWest hospital and with further steroid injections I can either live with them now or get nipple tattooing. The best in the uk is the "areola tattooist". I have nipple sensation to pressure only so 50% return of nerve sensation.


----------



## MissOrange

I have now been on evorel conti 50 HRT patches for 3 months and my cholesterol is now borderline normal!!! I have gone from 8.4 nmols/l (325 mg/dl) to 6.1 nmols/ l (235 ng/dl). Oestrogen is needed to act on the liver to reduce cholesterol. Even my thumb knuckle tendon xanthoma has shrunk significantly. So not only does it give me radiant skin but is cardioprotective. My LPA came down 10% so I still need to solve this. Will try increasing my vitamin C. I think reverse aging means HRT is needed post menopause too.


----------



## MissOrange

I'm at 19.5 weeks post my second facelift and my face is looking good. I think eating meat daily is helping  my face. So far the 2 facelifts theory, prednisolone steroid to prevent postop swelling and skin stretch, keeping my weight around 97 lbs, HRT and eating meat daily has given me a face I like!


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on how selfies at 3 distances give a false impression of V line surgery results so be very careful when looking at IG results as if the selfie is taken up close, the v line looks amazing. I took 3 selfies within seconds...first up close, second at reading distance and third at arm's length. I always wondered why when ladies booked v line surgery in Korea the surgeon took a tiny sliver of bone and there was hardly any difference in person. Maybe ladies are lured by distorted selfie fishbowl photos and think they will look like this in real life with bone contouring surgery. Do not rely on postop selfies.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Wow! Thanks for this @Transformation2021. Incredible that this was a Karam patient! This is why I say don’t spend a fortune on a facelift as it may need to be revised sooner or later.
> 
> With the omicron variant and rise in covid cases in Korea, it looks like seeing Dr Dongman Park may not happen until I am 60!
> 
> I have lost weight to my FL surgery weight of 98.8 lbs and tried face yoga again to tighten my face. I have been drinking collagen renu powder for 2 weeks now. It seems to have helped. That and discovering F810 mink 3D eyelashes!!! OMG! 5 pairs for £2.99 on eBay with free delivery so it cost me 60 pence to look like this! I had spent £30 for lash lift with tint but as I have sparse tiny eyelashes, it was hardly noticeable. I love these mink lashes! I have ordered more for £2.25 from another ebayer. My eBay red reading glasses cost £2.99 too! Lol. And the box of L’Oreal excellence natural light brown dye cost £5.50.
> 
> View attachment 5260861
> 
> 
> View attachment 5260862



@MissOrange, where do you buy your eyelashes?  Can they be found on Amazon? 

Also, where do you buy your compression garments and your face compression bandage?  Due for surgery soon and want to buy those too. 

I clicked on the link for eyelashes and it does not work anymore due to page changes.

Oh, and if you have information about brighter eyes / contact lenses, please let me know.  

Thank you so much.


----------



## MissOrange

Today’s post is on “to inform“ vs “to influence”. I love how Dr Gary Motykie is calling out JLo for selling beauty products but not sharing she had a facelift. 

He makes a point of distinguishing between informing people about how to get beauty results vs influencing people to buy a product but omitting that they did something else too, like a facelift, fat graft, botox etc. This reminds me of facelift postops where some ladies say their facelift lasted one year, 2 years or even 5 years but omit that they also had botox and or fillers each year too, ie gave themselves a nonsurgical facelift too.

I make it a point to be honest and inform you whether I am happy or not with each of my procedures. I am at 20 weeks now post smas plication (my second facelift) and am astounded that I have not had to reach for my emergency box of radiesse, have not needed botox and somehow eating meat every day has helped tighten my facial muscles. A friend has tried £30 facial acupuncture in China and her results are amazing as it seems to have tightened her facial muscles!


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> @MissOrange, where do you buy your eyelashes?  Can they be found on Amazon?
> 
> Also, where do you buy your compression garments and your face compression bandage?  Due for surgery soon and want to buy those too.
> 
> I clicked on the link for eyelashes and it does not work anymore due to page changes.
> 
> Oh, and if you have information about brighter eyes / contact lenses, please let me know.
> 
> Thank you so much.


Hi @Otto8,

I get my eyelashes from ebay. I wear either the F810 large eyelashes or the individual Duralash lashes in medium size. Duralash eyelashes are sold in Walmart in the US and Boots here. I can’t wear glasses properly when I wear the big eyelashes as it keeps hitting the lens.

The face compression garment I bought on ebay.

I haven‘t bought any more coloured contacts since my trip to Korea as I cannot find them outside of Korea. Shame as they are the best and worn by k pop stars!

Sounds like you want to be a mini me? lol. I am flattered. x


----------



## MissOrange

A friend passed on this youtube video of a 56 yo Korean lady having a facelift at ASPS (apgujeong seoul plastic surgery). Looks like she had a brow lift as well as a lower face lift. Where it says ‘il’ that means days. ASPS is one of the top Korean plastic surgery centres for facelifts. Looks like the head surgeon did not do this lady’s facelift but a younger surgeon did who also did the consult. If you do book a FL there try to get the head surgeon to do yours. From her postop video clips, it looks like she had some lower face laxity postop at 10 days, 20 days and 30 days and may have had something done between days 30 and 90 as at 90 days the lower face looks tighter as if she had fillers or fat graft. Still, I appreciate how the clinic posted videos of the patient as videos are more telling than selfies.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Otto8,
> 
> I get my eyelashes from ebay. I wear either the F810 large eyelashes or the individual Duralash lashes in medium size. Duralash eyelashes are sold in Walmart in the US and Boots here. I can’t wear glasses properly when I wear the big eyelashes as it keeps hitting the lens.
> 
> The face compression garment I bought on ebay.
> 
> I haven‘t bought any more coloured contacts since my trip to Korea as I cannot find them outside of Korea. Shame as they are the best and worn by k pop stars!
> 
> Sounds like you want to be a mini me? lol. I am flattered. x



Thank you so much! 

Anything to look and feel better.  The weather is wonderful at the moment, so time to go out.

The contact lenses were a last-minute thought but to be honest, I have never worn contact lenses so I am not sure.

Everything else, yes.  I think eyelashes are great!  I get them done sometimes but at the moment, I thought I should try these budget ones since inflation is hitting a high!


----------



## Lien

MissOrange said:


> Today’s post is on “to inform“ vs “to influence”. I love how Dr Gary Motykie is calling out JLo for selling beauty products but not sharing she had a facelift.
> 
> He makes a point of distinguishing between informing people about how to get beauty results vs influencing people to buy a product but omitting that they did something else too, like a facelift, fat graft, botox etc. This reminds me of facelift postops where some ladies say their facelift lasted one year, 2 years or even 5 years but omit that they also had botox and or fillers each year too, ie gave themselves a nonsurgical facelift too.
> 
> I make it a point to be honest and inform you whether I am happy or not with each of my procedures. I am at 20 weeks now post smas plication (my second facelift) and am astounded that I have not had to reach for my emergency box of radiesse, have not needed botox and somehow eating meat every day has helped tighten my facial muscles. A friend has tried £30 facial acupuncture in China and her results are amazing as it seems to have tightened her facial muscles!




Big difference btw the 2 pics.


----------



## Transformation2021

Donna Mills at 81 hasn't changed in 45 years. Her eyes have always mesmerized me. Who's her doctor?
First 3 pics are screen shots off videos, so no photoshopping or filters.


----------



## Transformation2021

Wooahin Plastic Surgery. Unfortunately their website has bare minimum topics and all in Korean but they are famous. English website mention them when using examples of PS in Seoul. I've only discovered them on YouTube and unfortunately all in Korean.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a collage of my MACS lift at 29 weeks and 5 days on top, followed by the second facelift (smas plication) and just now 20.5 weeks post still looking good! I can definitely see an improvement since the MACS lift sag so the more facelifts to excise loose skin, the tighter the face! I can recommend double board certified in plastic surgery and maxfacs Mr Nick Rhodes as long as you get a free retightening if the first one starts to sag. He does not offer it to every lady as it is discretionary. To think 2021, I had good and bad face days before my 1st facelift and since the 2nd facelift January 31, 2022 I have never had to look at my face as I no longer dread or worry about getting a bad sag face day. If I can last past 29 weeks, then I think this may well last! I noticed that besides daily meat, taking vitamin C 1-1.5g a day may be helping the formation of collagen in the face? I have been taking high dose vitamin C as part of the Linus Pauling protocol to lower my lipoprotein A. I noticed serums being sold with vitamin C as an ingredient but taking it orally would be more effective?


----------



## MissOrange

I have come a long way in 13 months! I think any procedure that causes profound facial swelling may result in marked skin laxity after deswelling. When I had my final full face fat graft in Korea Jan 2020 I had +++ swelling as I had also had 6 threads in and taken out too. I did not know the importance of taking postop prednisolone and only after researching that the top 3 US facelift surgeons all give intraop or postop steroids did I realise this is what prevents swelling and skin laxity.

Here is my journey through 2 facelifts July 2021 and Jan 2022, one without steroids and one with 5 days of postop steroids and HRT patches. Maybe the smas plication is holding because I have developed scar tissue. Nick did say he had to cut through scar tissue in my face during the second facelift. The last pair of photos were taken yesterday 21 weeks or 5 months post smas plication.

There is no need to spend £25k or $150k when you can go to a board certified plastic surgeon for £4k or $7k and make sure you are given a week of prednisolone 30 mg a day. Sadly no UK facelift surgeon prescribes prednisolone intraop or postop and the majority do not offer free revisions. It is a shame as prednisolone is cheap and safe for 5 days.


----------



## catlover6

MissOrange said:


> I have come a long way in 13 months! I think any procedure that causes profound facial swelling may result in marked skin laxity after deswelling. When I had my final full face fat graft in Korea Jan 2020 I had +++ swelling as I had also had 6 threads in and taken out too. I did not know the importance of taking postop prednisolone and only after researching that the top 3 US facelift surgeons all give intraop or postop steroids did I realise this is what prevents swelling and skin laxity.
> 
> Here is my journey through 2 facelifts July 2021 and Jan 2022, one without steroids and one with 5 days of postop steroids and HRT patches. Maybe the smas plication is holding because I have developed scar tissue. Nick did say he had to cut through scar tissue in my face during the second facelift. The last pair of photos were taken yesterday 21 weeks or 5 months post smas plication.
> 
> There is no need to spend £25k or $150k when you can go to a board certified plastic surgeon for £4k or $7k and make sure you are given a week of prednisolone 30 mg a day. Sadly no UK facelift surgeon prescribes prednisolone intraop or postop and the majority do not offer free revisions. It is a shame as prednisolone is cheap and safe for 5 days.
> 
> View attachment 5435245
> 
> @MissOrange did you get the Prednisolone from Nick Rhodes? Or elsewhere? I have my surgery in September so was considering asking them if they will give me some.


----------



## Fraulein

Catlover - will you be in Seoul in September? I'm going for consultations end of August  to the first week of september.


----------



## catlover6

Fraulein said:


> Catlover - will you be in Seoul in September? I'm going for consultations end of August  to the first week of september.


No I have already had my consultations and I am booked in for surgery at the same clinic as @MissOrange had her surgery in the UK.


----------



## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> No I have already had my consultations and I am booked in for surgery at the same clinic as @MissOrange had her surgery in the UK.


OMG! That‘s 2 people on this site booked in with Nick after following my facelift journey! Remember to source a week of prednisolone 30 mg a day for 5-7 days postop. He won’t prescribe. There is no point in getting a facelift, if you do not prevent swelling with steroids @catlover6. When is your surgery booked? Compression garments are not enough. Any cm or more of stretch from swelling will come back to haunt you at 4 months! One lady after me had premature skin laxity at 6 weeks post her facelift with Nick and another is showing laxity at 17 weeks like I did with the first facelift. Neither had steroids. They both paid £9k for a full smas plication facelift and necklift. 2 other ladies who Nick agreed to revise for free obtained steroids from elsewhere and one had her free revision in March and the other is due to have her facelift retightening in September. Both are armed with a box of steroids even though Nick and 99% of Uk plastic surgeons do not prescribe steroids but most US facelift surgeons do prescribe steroids. I would absolutely NOT have a facelift now without a box of prednisolone. Why do American plastic surgeons offer a better postop service than UK surgeons? I doubt Korean plastic surgeons give steroids either. They seem to underdose for pain postop and offer only paracetamol.


----------



## MissOrange

Fraulein said:


> Catlover - will you be in Seoul in September? I'm going for consultations end of August  to the first week of september.


Hi @Fraulein, when you are in Seoul for consultations ask them if they give postop steroids, ie prednisolone for a week. I would love to know if the Korean plastic surgeons follow the US protocol of giving postop steroids or the backwards UK not giving postop steroids.


----------



## Otto8

I believe predi


MissOrange said:


> I have come a long way in 13 months! I think any procedure that causes profound facial swelling may result in marked skin laxity after deswelling. When I had my final full face fat graft in Korea Jan 2020 I had +++ swelling as I had also had 6 threads in and taken out too. I did not know the importance of taking postop prednisolone and only after researching that the top 3 US facelift surgeons all give intraop or postop steroids did I realise this is what prevents swelling and skin laxity.
> 
> Here is my journey through 2 facelifts July 2021 and Jan 2022, one without steroids and one with 5 days of postop steroids and HRT patches. Maybe the smas plication is holding because I have developed scar tissue. Nick did say he had to cut through scar tissue in my face during the second facelift. The last pair of photos were taken yesterday 21 weeks or 5 months post smas plication.
> 
> There is no need to spend £25k or $150k when you can go to a board certified plastic surgeon for £4k or $7k and make sure you are given a week of prednisolone 30 mg a day. Sadly no UK facelift surgeon prescribes prednisolone intraop or postop and the majority do not offer free revisions. It is a shame as prednisolone is cheap and safe for 5 days.



I am not sure about prednisolene as it has side effects of weight gain, headaches, acne, mood changes, indigestion, sleeplessness.

Although if it is a short dose of two days, the side effects may not be so bad.

However, I am inclined to stay with high doses of turmeric or follow an arnica and vitamin regime or perhaps consider these alternatives:

Or I could cave in and take the prednisolene.   Don't know yet.  But here is the regime I found:


----------



## catlover6

@MissOrange how did you know what dose of Prednisolone to take? Did you have any side effects from them? As I am worried that I might get an upset stomach. I am going to also use cold gel packs on the area on and off to try and to reduce the swelling quicker as well.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> OMG! That‘s 2 people on this site booked in with Nick after following my facelift journey! Remember to source a week of prednisolone 30 mg a day for 5-7 days postop. He won’t prescribe. There is no point in getting a facelift, if you do not prevent swelling with steroids @catlover6. When is your surgery booked? Compression garments are not enough. Any cm or more of stretch from swelling will come back to haunt you at 4 months! One lady after me had premature skin laxity at 6 weeks post her facelift with Nick and another is showing laxity at 17 weeks like I did with the first facelift. Neither had steroids. They both paid £9k for a full smas plication facelift and necklift. 2 other ladies who Nick agreed to revise for free obtained steroids from elsewhere and one had her free revision in March and the other is due to have her facelift retightening in September. Both are armed with a box of steroids even though Nick and 99% of Uk plastic surgeons do not prescribe steroids but most US facelift surgeons do prescribe steroids. I would absolutely NOT have a facelift now without a box of prednisolone. Why do American plastic surgeons offer a better postop service than UK surgeons? I doubt Korean plastic surgeons give steroids either. They seem to underdose for pain postop and offer only paracetamol.



But how did they get the steroid if Nick does not prescribe?


----------



## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> @MissOrange how did you know what dose of Prednisolone to take? Did you have any side effects from them? As I am worried that I might get an upset stomach. I am going to also use cold gel packs on the area on and off to try and to reduce the swelling quicker as well.


Hi @catlover6 I know what dose as I was both an ENT surgeon and a GP for many years so prescribed steroids both in ENT and as a GP.

Please, please do NOT have a facelift without postop steroids for 5 days. Cold packs are not enough. I used compression garments, cold packs, popsicles, cold pineapple juice, arnica pills, zinc, etc. and still my face swelled after the first facelift. Here is a brutal collage showing what I looked like going into the Coppergate Clinic on July 5, 2021 for my first and on January 31, 2022 for my second facelift and how much my face swelled by day 5 without prednisolone after the first facelift which I strongly believed stretched my thin skin and created more loose skin. You can see the clinic in the background. This second facelift is much better now as I took 5 days of 30 mg of prednisolone on postop days 2-6 so had zero swelling. Top US facelift surgeons Ben Talei ($50k), Amir Karam ($75k) and Andrew Jacono ($120k) all prescribe steroids to their facelift ladies. I am trying to prevent you from feeling low when the sagging commences once the swelling goes, ie it can be as early as 6 weeks or commonly around 17 weeks. What rang alarm bells was when Nick said at 6 weeks postop ladies give him gifts but at 6 months they come with 2 fingers asking for their face to be pulled up and demonstrating with their fingers. I have British ladies contacting me at 4-6 months postop lamenting how they wasted £9k-£13k for a facelift that did not last, including deep planes as none of them were prescribed steroids by their UK plastic surgeons. Take the steroids with a glass of milk or with food. It is just once a day. No side effects as you are not taking it for 6 weeks at doses above 40 mg a day. The paediatric dose of prednisolone is 1-2 mg per kg with a max dose of 40 mg a day. You as an adult would be on 30 mg a day.


----------



## MissOrange

Otto8 said:


> But how did they get the steroid if Nick does not prescribe?


 @Otto8 that is the unfairness and difficulty. One British lady got it on holiday from a pharmacist in Morocco for her revision. Another British lady resorted to using her son’s steroids for her revision. I repurposed the leftover steroids my NHS GP prescribed me for an allergic rash to the azd vaccine for my revision. Another lady was already on steroids for her rheumatoid arthritis when she had her facelift so had no bruising or swelling and was able to wear makeup on postop day 4! Others bought from Indiamart online. It is so unfair that British ladies have to think outside of the box, whereas American ladies can get it prescribed by their facelift surgeon as routine. No wonder American ladies age so well and British ladies are struggling with 4-6 month facelift longevity or resorting to going back to dermal fillers or fighting to get a partial refund or free revision or simply living with a saggy face as they have spent all their savings on one facelift (mis)sold to them as lasting a lifetime. I can only recommend Nick if you are able to source a box of steroids elsewhere to take the first week postop or you may look like I did in the collage and be begging for a free revision 6 months after the first facelift.

If you have zero postop swelling with steroids, you do not need to overcorrect a facelift to compensate for postop swelling and skin stretch. Who wants an overcorrected lizard face for 4 months until all the deep swelling disappears when you can simply take 5 days of steroids postop or even up to 2 weeks if you are a patient of Dr Jacono in NYC and always look good immediately after your facelift and for months after. I have yet to determine the longevity of this smas plication as I am only at 21 weeks and 1 day. This thread has been viewed over 401,000 times thus far which means my advice is reaching many ladies out there in hopes they do not make my mistakes and only benefit from my successes.


----------



## Otto8

MissOrange said:


> @Otto8 that is the unfairness and difficulty. One British lady got it on holiday from a pharmacist in Morocco for her revision. Another British lady resorted to using her son’s steroids for her revision. I repurposed the leftover steroids my NHS GP prescribed me for an allergic rash to the azd vaccine for my revision. Another lady was already on steroids for her rheumatoid arthritis when she had her facelift so had no bruising or swelling and was able to wear makeup on postop day 4! Others bought from Indiamart online. It is so unfair that British ladies have to think outside of the box, whereas American ladies can get it prescribed by their facelift surgeon as routine. No wonder American ladies age so well and British ladies are struggling with 4-6 month facelift longevity or resorting to going back to dermal fillers or fighting to get a partial refund or free revision or simply living with a saggy face as they have spent all their savings on one facelift (mis)sold to them as lasting a lifetime. I can only recommend Nick if you are able to source a box of steroids elsewhere to take the first week postop or you may look like I did in the collage and be begging for a free revision 6 months after the first facelift.
> 
> If you have zero postop swelling with steroids, you do not need to overcorrect a facelift to compensate for postop swelling and skin stretch. Who wants an overcorrected lizard face for 4 months until all the deep swelling disappears when you can simply take 5 days of steroids postop or even up to 2 weeks if you are a patient of Dr Jacono in NYC and always look good immediately after your facelift and for months after. I have yet to determine the longevity of this smas plication as I am only at 21 weeks and 1 day. This thread has been viewed over 401,000 times thus far which means my advice is reaching many ladies out there in hopes they do not make my mistakes and only benefit from my successes.



I love this thread.  I go back to it many times.


----------



## catlover6

MissOrange said:


> Hi @catlover6 I know what dose as I was both an ENT surgeon and a GP for many years so prescribed steroids both in ENT and as a GP.
> 
> Please, please do NOT have a facelift without postop steroids for 5 days. Cold packs are not enough. I used compression garments, cold packs, popsicles, cold pineapple juice, arnica pills, zinc, etc. and still my face swelled after the first facelift. Here is a brutal collage showing what I looked like going into the Coppergate Clinic on July 5, 2021 for my first and on January 31, 2022 for my second facelift and how much my face swelled by day 5 without prednisolone after the first facelift which I strongly believed stretched my thin skin and created more loose skin. You can see the clinic in the background. This second facelift is much better now as I took 5 days of 30 mg of prednisolone on postop days 2-6 so had zero swelling. Top US facelift surgeons Ben Talei ($50k), Amir Karam ($75k) and Andrew Jacono ($120k) all prescribe steroids to their facelift ladies. I am trying to prevent you from feeling low when the sagging commences once the swelling goes, ie it can be as early as 6 weeks or commonly around 17 weeks. What rang alarm bells was when Nick said at 6 weeks postop ladies give him gifts but at 6 months they come with 2 fingers asking for their face to be pulled up and demonstrating with their fingers. I have British ladies contacting me at 4-6 months postop lamenting how they wasted £9k-£13k for a facelift that did not last, including deep planes as none of them were prescribed steroids by their UK plastic surgeons. Take the steroids with a glass of milk or with food. It is just once a day. No side effects as you are not taking it for 6 weeks at doses above 40 mg a day. The paediatric dose of prednisolone is 1-2 mg per kg with a max dose of 40 mg a day. You as an adult would be on 30 mg a day.
> 
> View attachment 5436244


@MissOrange i really appreciate your advise, it is best to hear it from a previous patient who has actually been through the operation. Yes I want it to last, so I will do everything I can to reduce the swelling. I will get hold of some Prednisolone, you said you started on day 2, can you take them on the day of the surgery?
Did you also notice when you took them that the pain was less in recovery, then when you didn’t take them?
Yes it’s a real shame that UK surgeons are behind on issues like this, as surely they would want their patients to have long lasting results!


----------



## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> @MissOrange i really appreciate your advise, it is best to hear it from a previous patient who has actually been through the operation. Yes I want it to last, so I will do everything I can to reduce the swelling. I will get hold of some Prednisolone, you said you started on day 2, can you take them on the day of the surgery?
> Did you also notice when you took them that the pain was less in recovery, then when you didn’t take them?
> Yes it’s a real shame that UK surgeons are behind on issues like this, as surely they would want their patients to have long lasting results!


Hi @catlover6 I started on day 2 as that is when swelling starts but yes you can start on day 1. You only have intense pain in the first 24 hours and sadly paracetamol or tylenol is not strong enough so you will need to get codeine or tramadol from your GP. Paracetamol is fine for day 2 onwards. I was prepared this time as the pain kept me up all night for the first facelift. Thank goodness I had stronger painkillers with me for the second facelift. If you are getting it under local, you only get a box of antibiotics and antibiotic ointment. If you are paying for the full facelift and necklift under sedation, you get sent a long list of prescription meds to fill and pay at your local pharmacist but steroids is not on the prescription.


----------



## Fraulein

K Couture said:


> I wasnt in any pain from the forehead lift. I have no scars either. He did it from inside the hairline so no bums. and yes i did the lip lift too. My forehead and lips done to perfection. I did some facial lipo too but can't see results yet. Still pretty swollen in the right cheek though


HI K Couture 
Did you have your forehead lift with Dr. Ahn?  
I'm heading to Seoul in September to book consultations.  
Would greatly appreciate any intel.  Thank you!


----------



## K Couture

Fraulein said:


> HI K Couture
> Did you have your forehead lift with Dr. Ahn?
> I'm heading to Seoul in September to book consultations.
> Would greatly appreciate any intel.  Thank you!


yes i did


----------



## Fraulein

K Couture said:


> yes i did


Thank you!


----------



## MissOrange

I'm almost 22 weeks now and my facelift is still holding. Once I make it to 6 months, I can chill. This has turned into the best facelift for £4k including trains and hotels and one box of prednisolone for £9.35.


----------



## Fraulein

MissOrange said:


> For ladies interested in breast fat transfer post explant or due to tubular defects, I am now 1 year and 5 months post my one time breast FT for £5,600 by David Floyd of London, UK and am so pleased with the long lasting results. These photos are 2 years apart. The one on the left is today at 95.2 lbs and the one on the right was taken when I was in Korea at 96 lbs 2 years ago taking my selfie for a consult with Fresh clinic about breast fat transfer. I hated my deformed asymmetrical breasts with tubular defect after periareolar mastopexy. Who could have dreamed that I would have such pretty shaped breasts with one round of breast fat transfer by Cambridge graduate David Floyd! There is a reason top plastic surgeons go to Oxford or Cambridge med school! My breast journey is now finished. No more implants, no more explants, no more implant ruptures or leaks, and no more looking at deformities. Now if only I could be happy about my face. I wish I had a bigger nose and tighter face. lol.
> 
> View attachment 5293342


Ms Orange - I'm considering fat transfer to breasts but like you I don't have a lot of fat and weigh about 99 lbs.  My biggest concern is the uneven redistribution of fat.   Back in the 90's when liposuction was in the early stages of development i saw a woman who had lipo from her belly and then developed a double chin.  I don't hear about this much but wonder what your thoughts are on the risks of redistribution of fat?


----------



## MissOrange

Fraulein said:


> Ms Orange - I'm considering fat transfer to breasts but like you I don't have a lot of fat and weigh about 99 lbs.  My biggest concern is the uneven redistribution of fat.   Back in the 90's when liposuction was in the early stages of development i saw a woman who had lipo from her belly and then developed a double chin.  I don't hear about this much but wonder what your thoughts are on the risks of redistribution of fat?


Good question @Fraulein. The fat redistribution for me has been to my butt which is a bonus! David Floyd took fat from my back flanks, 360 thighs and medial knees and as I had had 2 abdominal lipos in the past, and an arm lipo, there really was nowhere fat could go but my butt as he put all the cc’s into my breasts. I weighed about your weight when I got breast fat transfer and 23 months later my breasts are still big, a 30e or 32dd bra. I guess it becomes a question of which areas have not had lipo as they may swell up after when fat redistributes.


----------



## MissOrange

I met a 56 yo British GP yesterday and she was shocked to hear I was her age! She said I looked half her age! lol. She asked me what I did in my retirement. How could I share that I had spent the past 6 years trying to reverse aging? lol. Stress, jobs, shift work, babies and the menopause all age one fast!

Here are a couple of snaps from the wedding. I like how it captured my figure, the result of full lower body liposuction for the breast fat transfer. It also shows how skinny my upper arms are 3 years post arm lipo in Beveren with Dr Oelbrandt! I am so glad I opted for arm liposuction rather than arm lift with its long scar. I wore compression tape 24/7 for weeks to keep my arms skinny postop. Instead of vigorous exercise, I chose the easy option to have a young looking figure. lol.


----------



## kmyu

Fraulein said:


> Catlover - will you be in Seoul in September? I'm going for consultations end of August  to the first week of september.


Hi! What’s your kkt id? There’s a August-September group chat with a few of people. Would be great to meet up if any of our trips overlap. Happy to add you to the group chat.


----------



## kmyu

Fraulein said:


> Catlover - will you be in Seoul in September? I'm going for consultations end of August  to the first week of september.


There’s a Aug-Sep group chat with a few people. Would be great to meet up (if our trips overlap). Happy to add you. What’s your kkt id?

**please be sure to set your id to be searchable or else nothing comes up when searching for you in kkt** Thanks


----------



## vmars03

congratulations on your daughters wedding, how delightful to look so pretty on such a momentous (and heavily photographed) occasion!

I know you got your breast fat transfer in the UK, but do you have any recommendations for korean surgeons who do good work in that particular surgery? Thank you!


----------



## thelilachour

Transformation2021 said:


> CEO of Aging-L Kim Soo-Cheol, the master of face lift surgery. He is a pioneer in face lift surgery with 22 years of experience
> View attachment 5421686



I went to him for face fat graft and consulted for a facelift in 2018…it was too early for a lift at that time, then he changed clinics. Was thinking maybe I should go back for a lower FL this year. Do you know anyone who had FL with him?


----------



## Fraulein

MissOrange said:


> Good question @Fraulein. The fat redistribution for me has been to my butt which is a bonus! David Floyd took fat from my back flanks, 360 thighs and medial knees and as I had had 2 abdominal lipos in the past, and an arm lipo, there really was nowhere fat could go but my butt as he put all the cc’s into my breasts. I weighed about your weight when I got breast fat transfer and 23 months later my breasts are still big, a 30e or 32dd bra. I guess it becomes a question of which areas have not had lipo as they may swell up after when fat redistributes.


Thank you!!


----------



## Fraulein

kmyu said:


> There’s a Aug-Sep group chat with a few people. Would be great to meet up (if our trips overlap). Happy to add you. What’s your kkt id?
> 
> **please be sure to set your id to be searchable or else nothing comes up when searching for you in kkt** Thanks


Hi there! Kakao ID:  FrauleinM   karmicm@gmail.com


----------



## NewMe83

You look absolutly gorgeous Miss Orange and I save in my notes all your advices you are giving. I have a question for you or anyone else please. I see many Asian girls having filler put into the bottom eyelid to make the eyes look bigger, “smiley” and “dolly”. How is this product called and is anyone doing in London? Would you recommend that, have you ever had that? I am European but I like the look of that, although not sure if that would suit me or I would look like I am not sleeping well. Thanks x


----------



## MissOrange

NewMe83 said:


> You look absolutly gorgeous Miss Orange and I save in my notes all your advices you are giving. I have a question for you or anyone else please. I see many Asian girls having filler put into the bottom eyelid to make the eyes look bigger, “smiley” and “dolly”. How is this product called and is anyone doing in London? Would you recommend that, have you ever had that? I am European but I like the look of that, although not sure if that would suit me or I would look like I am not sleeping well. Thanks x


Hi @NewMe83,

That is a baby aegyu sal created in the lower lid with fat. But in the UK they remove fat so instead I create it with makeup. Here I am today getting ready for Korean guests with aegyu sal makeup.


----------



## MissOrange

A friend sent me this youtube link to a 55 year old lady a year out from a facelift at Dream and a younger lady who also had a forehead and face lift with Dr Yoo. The results look good! I wonder how much they charge?


----------



## MissOrange

Here are the b&a’s from the youtube interview of Dream patients. I like how they made videos so you can see their animated after faces in action and how the 55 year old is one year out and it is holding. She had fat graft too. Sounds like she had it under general anaesthesia as she says her throat hurt from the tube. I still look younger than the 55 year old as she did not get fat graft to her upper eyelid and her lips are still thin, a sign of age. Sounds like we have another contender for facelifts in Korea…Dr Yoo At Dream, to join 2 other facelift clinics in Korea, ASPS and Bio Clinic.


----------



## kmyu

MissOrange said:


> Day 5. I applied arnica cream over my lower cheeks and under my jaw as I see a little bruising appearing. Today I took my last day of 20 mg of prednisolone to deswell. Here is a comparison of day 5‘s last year without pred vs this year with. If you are getting surgery that will make you swell up like a moon man face, then consider asking your GP or surgeon for a prescription for prednisolone 30 mg a day for 5 days. I am tiny so I took 20 mg a day.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5317929
> 
> 
> View attachment 5317930
> 
> 
> View attachment 5317931


Is prednisone 20mg comparable to prednisolone?


----------



## Fraulein

kmyu said:


> There’s a Aug-Sep group chat with a few people. Would be great to meet up (if our trips overlap). Happy to add you. What’s your kkt id?
> 
> **please be sure to set your id to be searchable or else nothing comes up when searching for you in kkt** Thanks





Fraulein said:


> Thank you!


K Couture - Could you tell me how frequently you had to visit the doctor post surgery?  Is it daily? or every couple of days for a week?  I'm debating if I should book my hotel close by.  I find gangnam just a little too busy.


----------



## MissOrange

kmyu said:


> Is prednisone 20mg comparable to prednisolone?


@kmyu yes it is.


----------



## Fraulein

Does anyone know if Korean surgeons use hydroxyapatite for cheek implants?  It's a kind of coral composite that is like bone.   I prefer a 3 dimensional look and may want a cheek lift/implant with my face lift.  Here is one of my favorite examples


----------



## kmyu

Fraulein said:


> Hi there! Kakao ID:  FrauleinM   karmicm@gmail.com


----------



## kmyu

MissOrange said:


> Hi @catlover6 I know what dose as I was both an ENT surgeon and a GP for many years so prescribed steroids both in ENT and as a GP.
> 
> Please, please do NOT have a facelift without postop steroids for 5 days. Cold packs are not enough. I used compression garments, cold packs, popsicles, cold pineapple juice, arnica pills, zinc, etc. and still my face swelled after the first facelift. Here is a brutal collage showing what I looked like going into the Coppergate Clinic on July 5, 2021 for my first and on January 31, 2022 for my second facelift and how much my face swelled by day 5 without prednisolone after the first facelift which I strongly believed stretched my thin skin and created more loose skin. You can see the clinic in the background. This second facelift is much better now as I took 5 days of 30 mg of prednisolone on postop days 2-6 so had zero swelling. Top US facelift surgeons Ben Talei ($50k), Amir Karam ($75k) and Andrew Jacono ($120k) all prescribe steroids to their facelift ladies. I am trying to prevent you from feeling low when the sagging commences once the swelling goes, ie it can be as early as 6 weeks or commonly around 17 weeks. What rang alarm bells was when Nick said at 6 weeks postop ladies give him gifts but at 6 months they come with 2 fingers asking for their face to be pulled up and demonstrating with their fingers. I have British ladies contacting me at 4-6 months postop lamenting how they wasted £9k-£13k for a facelift that did not last, including deep planes as none of them were prescribed steroids by their UK plastic surgeons. Take the steroids with a glass of milk or with food. It is just once a day. No side effects as you are not taking it for 6 weeks at doses above 40 mg a day. The paediatric dose of prednisolone is 1-2 mg per kg with a max dose of 40 mg a day. You as an adult would be on 30 mg a day.
> 
> View attachment 5436244


(1) I noticed you mentioned having taken 20mg for your recovery and recommend 30mg for others. Why is that? 
*Edit: nvm just saw your reply explaining the difference in your guidance
————-

(2) I’m based in the US - any idea how to source this? I’ve asked my GP and they were not willing to prescribe.


----------



## Fraulein

hmmmm ?   What's yours? maybe I can try to add you


----------



## Fraulein

hmmm what's yours?  maybe I can try to add you


----------



## kmyu

Fraulein said:


> hmmm what's yours?  maybe I can try to add you


Dm-ed you


----------



## MissOrange

Today's post is on porcelain veneers vs crowns. Two decades ago in my 30s, I was given 2 upper front teeth crowns which I did not consent to or expect. I was terrified as the UK dentist kept drilling and filing and I thought this is more than a little file to sort 2 front teeth that stood out too much. I insisted on going to the toilet and almost fainted when I saw 2 little peg stumps. I looked like a witch or something from a horror film. He had sent his female dental assistant home before he started on my teeth so there was no witness. I could not complain or he would leave me like this and let him carry on and put on temporary crowns until the moulded crowns came back from the lab. I saw him again to have the final porcelain crowns put on. My front teeth no longer stuck outwards so I just accepted he did what was needed. I have since learned he has escaped to Thailand after getting in trouble with the dental regulator.

Years later I ended up with dead nerves in these 2 front teeth and had to pay £900 per tooth for 2 root canals to drain the abscess diagnosed on x ray. The Harley Street recommended dentist tested the nerve sensation and looked really sad for me that the nerves were dead. He said he did not know if the nerves were damaged at the time of the crowns. The hole in the centre of the teeth was filled in and I have no idea what composite material was put inside the hole in my crowns. You know you are in trouble when you have a dull toothache with pus coming out from behind your front teeth crowns. It means you have an abscess infection and need urgent root canal drilling and draining. Although at no time did the dentist offer me antibiotics first? I wonder if the tooth abscess would have cleared on antibiotics alone? It would have saved me £1800.

I found Dr Mervyn Druian who gave me 15 beautiful veneers (8 upper and 7 lower) and replaced the 2 crowns for £500 per veneer/crown. He informed me veneers last 10 years. I had the top 8 veneers and 2 crowns replaced after 10 years thinking getting bigger veneers would improve my lack of upper teeth show but after getting this done I realised it did not help upper teeth show and I actually needed philtrum shortening and a lip lift! The cost to replace the veneers had gone up to £900 each x 10 (8 upper veneers plus 2 crowns) or £9000 as a decade had passed. I hope these veneers last 15 years as it is too costly now. I have already had to pay £1000 to replace one lower veneer that cracked after a routine dental hygiene appointment as hygienists use a drill to clean the teeth which can cause hairline cracks or chips! The going rate in 2022 is now £1250 per tooth for one veneer! I now do my own dental hygiene after buying my own dental tools at poundland! lol. I even had my plaque count checked and it was low so I am doing a good job myself and I do not need to use a drill!

Never get crowns! I feel sorry for the latest trend of young persons flying to Turkey to get a full mouth of crowns. Turkey teeth is such a bad idea. Crowns can kill the nerves to the teeth. I hope I don’t end up getting false teeth! I would not get a dental implant as the metal screw is a permanent foreign body.

Porcelain veneers are more natural in my opinion and are thin veneers bonded to your teeth like fake nails. I would say do not replace all at 10 years. They can last longer. Just replace one veneer at a time when it cracks or chips. Young teeth means white teeth. As we age they discolour and turn yellow or darker. In the NHS, dentists are more likely to extract a tooth for a toothache than do an expensive root canal to save a tooth. Best to pay privately for a root canal to save your tooth! If you lose teeth, the jaw bone thins faster and you can actually expedite facial aging. One cannot have an expensive facelift and still have bad teeth. If anyone finds a cosmetic dentist in Korea who does porcelain veneers for less than £1000-£1250 a tooth, please share!

This is my teeth as of today. Fingers crossed they last until I am 70. Any porcelain crack or chip will cost me £1250 or more as the prices rise each year!


----------



## pie

Hi MissOrange. I know you warned about a full FG bc it migrates down and makes you sag faster. Do you feel the same about fillers?  I’m thinking of getting 2-3 ml of fillers to improve my mid face area, but have been holding off due to fear of sag.


----------



## Gats

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is on porcelain veneers vs crowns. Two decades ago in my 30s, I was given 2 upper front teeth crowns which I did not consent to or expect. I was terrified as the UK dentist kept drilling and filing and I thought this is more than a little file to sort 2 front teeth that stood out too much. I insisted on going to the toilet and almost fainted when I saw 2 little peg stumps. I looked like a witch or something from a horror film.



That's terrible he did without asking you. I had to do a crown as I had to do a root canal, I too remember being shocked when I looked in the mirror and saw my molar had been whittled down to a tiny stub. BTW your teeth look great! I still my have natural teeth aside from the crown, they are definitely not as white as yours given I drink so much coffee and tea! Also your gums look great, mine are receded from having braces before.

Regarding the cost of dental care, even with insurance some of the major procedures can be expensive out of pocket here in the US as well. Does anyone have experience with dental work in Korea? I'm curious how the standards are there and how much you would save if any versus getting the work done locally.


----------



## MissOrange

pie said:


> Hi MissOrange. I know you warned about a full FG bc it migrates down and makes you sag faster. Do you feel the same about fillers?  I’m thinking of getting 2-3 ml of fillers to improve my mid face area, but have been holding off due to fear of sag.


Hi @pie, I have only had 1 ml of filler in my nasolabials in my 40s and it did not cause sagging. I should think 2 mls should be fine in the midface but I am no expert. Fat graft is in the order of 50ccs so a lot more than fillers and can be heavy and migrate down.


----------



## MissOrange

Gats said:


> That's terrible he did without asking you. I had to do a crown as I had to do a root canal, I too remember being shocked when I looked in the mirror and saw my molar had been whittled down to a tiny stub. BTW your teeth look great! I still my have natural teeth aside from the crown, they are definitely not as white as yours given I drink so much coffee and tea! Also your gums look great, mine are receded from having braces before.
> 
> Regarding the cost of dental care, even with insurance some of the major procedures can be expensive out of pocket here in the US as well. Does anyone have experience with dental work in Korea? I'm curious how the standards are there and how much you would save if any versus getting the work done locally.


@Gats, my teeth are unnaturally white and look like dentures in real life. I wish I had chosen a more natural colour for the veneers, maybe off white? I chose the highest white colour on the chart! lol. Sorry you had a crown and root canal. You are fortunate you only have one crown to keep an eye on in future.


----------



## sanarae

MissOrange said:


> @Gats, my teeth are unnaturally white and look like dentures in real life. I wish I had chosen a more natural colour for the veneers, maybe off white? I chose the highest white colour on the chart! lol. Sorry you had a crown and root canal. You are fortunate you only have one crown to keep an eye on in future.


I've always admired your veneer work actually! They did an excellent job with customizing your teeth shape; it's very feminine and compliment your lip shape really nicely. (Unlike many who get veneers in the UK and somehow all end up with the same long horsey tooth shape - I'm honestly not trying to be insulting,; I just don't know how else to describe the phenomenon, and it looks distractingly unnatural...do they all go to the same cosmetic dentists, or if is this a standard teaching practice in Veneers 101 in UK dental schools or what?) But anyhow they look lovely on you. In the US that shade of white wouldn't be considered 'unnaturally white' at all, haha. I've seen much, much egregiously worse by people in the public eye.

I had Zoom whitening twice years ago because I could never get the Crest Whitestrips to stick on my lower teeth quite right, so there was a discrepancy in shades between upper and lower. My personal opinion? Waste of money. Although the first time was funny as there was an observer shadowing - I picked the whitest color on the tooth chart & she was like 'I want that next!'  Personally I stick with Crest Whitestrips (the technology has evolved by leaps and bounds) which work just as well, are far more cost-effective and less painful! (I also recommend the Crest 3D White toothpaste for stain removal especially if you drink coffee, tea or wine...I try to use a straw whenever possible for cold liquids but that's not always feasible! If your teeth are too sensitive for whitestrips, many brands sell hydrogen peroxide gels in tubes which you add to your toothpaste. definitely makes a difference!) 

After a minor car accident my front teeth began to shift (I had orthodontics as a kid so my teeth might've shifted anyway after 20=odd years, this just accelerated the process), and I'd just started to look into Invisalign when the pandemic hit. Fast forward 2+ years and I have a gap between my teeth, which may look winsome and charming on a younger person but really doesn't fly in a professional environment.  I'm really dreading Invisalign since it's such a pain wearing the retainers all the time - particularly if you have the clear 'dots' in the front teeth! Better than conventional braces I suppose...
I had a root canal + molar crown (white gold with a porcelain overlay I think?) after BITING A HOLE IN MY MOLAR after crunching on a holiday hard toffee candy. As in you could see the gum in the hole  Luckily I got to an excellent dentist who referred me to an endodontist. I was frightened as one always hears horror stories of root canals & the pain... but she was great. The only issue was that I had tea-colored antibiotic dripping out of my nose for 48 hours after, as the hole in the tooth had perforated into the sinuses! (Which is why sometimes if you have a sinus infection your upper row of teeth may hurt - it's all connected.) That was well over a decade ago and no problems since; the dentist is now one of the official dentists for a major US sports team where the players are constantly getting dental injuries. He specialises in cosmetic dentistry, so I'm going to make a consult with him for Invisalign.

The experience you had with the dentist who began doing root canals/crown without informed consent sounds nightmarish  And an abscess and a dodgy doctor fleeing the country too!! OMG. I'm sorry that happened to you and so glad the situation got fixed beautifully!

@Gats for midface sag / nasolabial folds I've seen some great results with filler placed in the temple region or upper cheek to lift the face as an alternative to filler in midface/nasolabial. It's unlikely that a tiny amount in midface with a thin HA filler shouldn't give you the dreaded pouchy mouth effect as long as you don't make a crazy habit of it!

@Fraulein I'm glad to have found you on Kakao  I hope we can chat soon (I was inordinately busy recently!); you're always so considerate, knowledgable and courteous (seems to be a commonality with people on this forum!) and also I just think you're neat  Plus there are some things re stuff you've mentioned about your PS goals, Korean/Cali PS, and some possible recommendations etc which I don't feel comfortable sharing on the forum (yes, I am a scaredy-cat).  

oh! I almost forgot! @MissOrange, beautiful as always - wishing you the best with your continued FL progress; your face looks youthful AND gorgeous - and I absolutely LOVED the red dress you wore at your daughter's wedding (congrats to her btw!) you styled it absolutely stunningly! Thank you for sharing your knowledge so openly (this goes for @K Couture as well; your detailed writeups and genuine personality are invaluable) - it's wonderful and awfully kind how people are willing to help each other by contributing what they have learnt, whilst being honest about the good and the bad of their experiences.


----------



## Fraulein

sanarae said:


> I've always admired your veneer work actually! They did an excellent job with customizing your teeth shape; it's very feminine and compliment your lip shape really nicely. (Unlike many who get veneers in the UK and somehow all end up with the same long horsey tooth shape - I'm honestly not trying to be insulting,; I just don't know how else to describe the phenomenon, and it looks distractingly unnatural...do they all go to the same cosmetic dentists, or if is this a standard teaching practice in Veneers 101 in UK dental schools or what?) But anyhow they look lovely on you. In the US that shade of white wouldn't be considered 'unnaturally white' at all, haha. I've seen much, much egregiously worse by people in the public eye.
> 
> I had Zoom whitening twice years ago because I could never get the Crest Whitestrips to stick on my lower teeth quite right, so there was a discrepancy in shades between upper and lower. My personal opinion? Waste of money. Although the first time was funny as there was an observer shadowing - I picked the whitest color on the tooth chart & she was like 'I want that next!'  Personally I stick with Crest Whitestrips (the technology has evolved by leaps and bounds) which work just as well, are far more cost-effective and less painful! (I also recommend the Crest 3D White toothpaste for stain removal especially if you drink coffee, tea or wine...I try to use a straw whenever possible for cold liquids but that's not always feasible! If your teeth are too sensitive for whitestrips, many brands sell hydrogen peroxide gels in tubes which you add to your toothpaste. definitely makes a difference!)
> 
> After a minor car accident my front teeth began to shift (I had orthodontics as a kid so my teeth might've shifted anyway after 20=odd years, this just accelerated the process), and I'd just started to look into Invisalign when the pandemic hit. Fast forward 2+ years and I have a gap between my teeth, which may look winsome and charming on a younger person but really doesn't fly in a professional environment.  I'm really dreading Invisalign since it's such a pain wearing the retainers all the time - particularly if you have the clear 'dots' in the front teeth! Better than conventional braces I suppose...
> I had a root canal + molar crown (white gold with a porcelain overlay I think?) after BITING A HOLE IN MY MOLAR after crunching on a holiday hard toffee candy. As in you could see the gum in the hole  Luckily I got to an excellent dentist who referred me to an endodontist. I was frightened as one always hears horror stories of root canals & the pain... but she was great. The only issue was that I had tea-colored antibiotic dripping out of my nose for 48 hours after, as the hole in the tooth had perforated into the sinuses! (Which is why sometimes if you have a sinus infection your upper row of teeth may hurt - it's all connected.) That was well over a decade ago and no problems since; the dentist is now one of the official dentists for a major US sports team where the players are constantly getting dental injuries. He specialises in cosmetic dentistry, so I'm going to make a consult with him for Invisalign.
> 
> The experience you had with the dentist who began doing root canals/crown without informed consent sounds nightmarish  And an abscess and a dodgy doctor fleeing the country too!! OMG. I'm sorry that happened to you and so glad the situation got fixed beautifully!
> 
> @Gats for midface sag / nasolabial folds I've seen some great results with filler placed in the temple region or upper cheek to lift the face as an alternative to filler in midface/nasolabial. It's unlikely that a tiny amount in midface with a thin HA filler shouldn't give you the dreaded pouchy mouth effect as long as you don't make a crazy habit of it!
> 
> @Fraulein I'm glad to have found you on Kakao  I hope we can chat soon (I was inordinately busy recently!); you're always so considerate, knowledgable and courteous (seems to be a commonality with people on this forum!) and also I just think you're neat  Plus there are some things re stuff you've mentioned about your PS goals, Korean/Cali PS, and some possible recommendations etc which I don't feel comfortable sharing on the forum (yes, I am a scaredy-cat).
> 
> oh! I almost forgot! @MissOrange, beautiful as always - wishing you the best with your continued FL progress; your face looks youthful AND gorgeous - and I absolutely LOVED the red dress you wore at your daughter's wedding (congrats to her btw!) you styled it absolutely stunningly! Thank you for sharing your knowledge so openly (this goes for @K Couture as well; your detailed writeups and genuine personality are invaluable) - it's wonderful and awfully kind how people are willing to help each other by contributing what they have learnt, whilst being honest about the good and the bad of their experiences.


Thanks Sanarae. Just so you know I responded to you on Kakao in case you need to reach out.


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## Fraulein

Question  - if I have my eye revision and fat grafting done at one clinic and my facelift done at another clinic how long would I need to wait between surgeries?


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## MissOrange

Looks like my eyelid surgeon is famous in Korea now! Dr Seo has been on sbs and his Machimpyo youtube videos get more views than my blog! I feel so privileged to have had the best eyelid surgeon sort out my old eyes with revision des with lid fat graft!


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## Moon88

Miss Orange, great that you are still active in this forum, after doing double eyelids and power V surgeries, I plan to go to Seoul again for facial contouring, I'm in my late 30s, I tot want to go to TLPS which I had my Power V done nevertheless it was closed and I had already paid booking for around USD:400. TLPS transferred me to Saekim the consultant claimed that Dr. Choi moved to Saekim, now I lost contact with the consultant...I don't know what happens to Saekim, do u know about Saekim?


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## lunarain

MissOrange said:


> I sent my photos to Dr Dongman Park via messenger on IG and instead of a detailed assessment, I got a banal response to come to Korea after the pandemic was over. Doesn’t sound like they showed Dr Park. I was asking how long after smas plication could I then get Dr Park’s extended smasectomy? Whether he had a free revision policy for up to a year? What his opinion was of my current face. Sigh. The pandemic is over in the UK. Is it still going on in Korea? I thought foreigners could now enter without quarantine?
> 
> View attachment 5413881


I have the same experience. They didn't respond to me email neither


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## yellow-sesame

@MissOrange I read that you had liposuction years and years ago. I'm going to Korea in the full for full body - might you have any advice?


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## MissOrange

Moon88 said:


> Miss Orange, great that you are still active in this forum, after doing double eyelids and power V surgeries, I plan to go to Seoul again for facial contouring, I'm in my late 30s, I tot want to go to TLPS which I had my Power V done nevertheless it was closed and I had already paid booking for around USD:400. TLPS transferred me to Saekim the consultant claimed that Dr. Choi moved to Saekim, now I lost contact with the consultant...I don't know what happens to Saekim, do u know about Saekim?


Wow @Moon88 I had no idea TLPS closed. They do extreme facial contouring. No, I do not know anything about Saekim. I would recommend Girin for facial contouring.


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## MissOrange

yellow-sesame said:


> @MissOrange I read that you had liposuction years and years ago. I'm going to Korea in the full for full body - might you have any advice?


Full body lipo may be too extreme in one go for your body to heal. Lipo can cause a lot of pain and discomfort for weeks. One girl had extreme lower body lipo from Ruby clinic in Korea with great results. When I had lower body lipo for my breast fat transfer it felt like I had been battered after the GA wore off. The pain went on and on and I could not sleep on my back or side. But it was worth it in the end. No pain, no gain.


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## yellow-sesame

MissOrange said:


> Full body lipo may be too extreme in one go for your body to heal. Lipo can cause a lot of pain and discomfort for weeks. One girl had extreme lower body lipo from Ruby clinic in Korea with great results. When I had lower body lipo for my breast fat transfer it felt like I had been battered after the GA wore off. The pain went on and on and I could not sleep on my back or side. But it was worth it in the end. No pain, no gain.


Gosh.. good to think about. Thanks!!


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## astrid0216

MissOrange said:


> Full body lipo may be too extreme in one go for your body to heal. Lipo can cause a lot of pain and discomfort for weeks. One girl had extreme lower body lipo from Ruby clinic in Korea with great results. When I had lower body lipo for my breast fat transfer it felt like I had been battered after the GA wore off. The pain went on and on and I could not sleep on my back or side. But it was worth it in the end. No pain, no gain.


Hi @MissOrange do you have any tips for reducing swelling after facial fat transfer?


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## MissOrange

astrid0216 said:


> Hi @MissOrange do you have any tips for reducing swelling after facial fat transfer?


Hi @astrid0216, in hindsight I wish I had taken steroids post facial fat transfer to prevent the monster swelling, made worse by flying back home from Korea 2 days after the fat transfer. I used head compression, arnica for the bruises, drank pineapple juice, wore an ice pack but at the end of the day, any swelling becomes loose skin when some of the fat reabsorbs.


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## MissOrange

lunarain said:


> I have the same experience. They didn't respond to me email neither


Maybe they prefer kakao in Korea? Or maybe he has enough business among locals?


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## MissOrange

I took selfies today at reading distance which is most realistic at just over 6 months postop....one lying down ie zero gravity and one standing. Both look good. I stopped hrt as a friend was diagnosed with breast cancer in March and thinks it was due to the hrt. I can sign off on Nick Rhodes as a great facelift surgeon but get ahold of 5 days of prednisolone from a private GP if your surgeon does not prescribe. Swelling = sagging skin.


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## pie

You look fantastic!


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## MissOrange

Today is a post on hypertrophic surgical scars. Do NOT try laser. I have just learned that Dr H the laser doc who gave me a third degree laser burn has been issued a warning by the GMC medical regulator. Before you do any procedure with a UK doctor, check the GMC medical register for any warnings and to ensure they are on the specialist register (for dermatology or plastic surgery). There is also a discussion to regulate the cosmetic industry to prevent mishaps.

After the Chelwest hospital burns unit operated on my burn and injected steroids postop to the surgical site, my areola has healed and I have no periareolar hypertrophic scar. I continue to wear a compressive bra during the day and that has also helped to keep scarring flat.

I see a lot of marketing these days for laser treatments to the face. I would personally avoid like the plague.


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## MissOrange

Here is an update on the facelift scars at just over 6 months. They look pretty much invisible now which is great as he did warn me they could end up as wide scars as it was a re-op at 6 months but I think he was just covering his bases as he is an excellent surgeon so the risk was minimal. I have no numbness of the skin or anywhere on my face. 

I would advise not jumping into a deep plane facelift as a first facelift as it is like taking a sledge hammer to lift the face in my opinion. It may cause too much nerve damage and soft tissue swelling to access the deeper planes. I have heard of ladies who still have residual numbness or swelling in the side of their face or in their neck.


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## catlover6

@MissOrange does the scar go behind the tragus? I am so worried about the scar and it being noticeable.


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## MissOrange

catlover6 said:


> @MissOrange does the scar go behind the tragus? I am so worried about the scar and it being noticeable.


Hi @catlover6, the incision is a few mms in front of the tragus. You make a good point. Ideally an incision should be hidden behind the tragus; fortunately I am not scarring too obviously in front, it just looks like a vertical crease.

Have you been able to source prednisolone to prevent postop swelling? I would not undergo any facelift without prednisolone.


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## MissOrange

Here are my just over 6 months selfies without makeup. There is a slight downturn at the mouth corners but not noticeable from the front. I look younger than 26 in a t-shirt, shorts and trainers and certainly not 56. I have to be careful when I go out without makeup as I get treated like a kid! I literally fit into a size 11 yo boy's linen blazer or age 12/13 girl's clothing. I am that tiny. I keep wanting to go to university to study Korean or work in a hospital again as a junior doctor but I think my mind is playing tricks on me as it sees a young face in the mirror. It is like transitioning from old to young in looks as if I want to look my 'soul' age.


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## MissOrange

I came across a Vogue cover selfie of Martha Stewart at age 81! You mean I have to keep fighting aging for the next 25 years to reach age 81 and look as good as she does?


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## Everly07

@MissOrange - I've been reading your posts for a couple of years thanks for all the detailed information!

I like to seek your advise if you think there is age limit when it comes to bone facial contouring. Do you think 38 years old is abit too late to do this? Worried about facial sag post op. I see you recommended Girin too for facial contouring, if it doesn't take too long to reply, could You advise why Girin? Thank you!


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## MissOrange

Everly07 said:


> @MissOrange - I've been reading your posts for a couple of years thanks for all the detailed information!
> 
> I like to seek your advise if you think there is age limit when it comes to bone facial contouring. Do you think 38 years old is abit too late to do this? Worried about facial sag post op. I see you recommended Girin too for facial contouring, if it doesn't take too long to reply, could You advise why Girin? Thank you!


Hi @Everly07, 38 should be fine but you would need a facelift either at the same time or after you have deswelled. I recommend Girin as I befriended a mature Asian American who had zygoma reduction at Girin and her face became smaller. She chose to have a FL at the same time. We facetimed and I saw her b&a photos. She went from a round flat face to a smaller 3D face. The surgeon is the only one in his clinic who does the bone contouring and the other does eyes so there is zero chance of a ghost surgeon or a junior doing the op. I had a consult there and it was pricey for me even with the discount for mentioning a former patient who referred me. I decided my face cannot tolerate foreign bodies so would not tolerate titanium plates or screws and it would be impossible for me to remove them once back in the UK. If you have atopy allergies, then I would not advise any foreign body implants, permanent sutures or screws.


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## catlover6

MissOrange said:


> Hi @catlover6, the incision is a few mms in front of the tragus. You make a good point. Ideally an incision should be hidden behind the tragus; fortunately I am not scarring too obviously in front, it just looks like a vertical crease.
> 
> Have you been able to source prednisolone to prevent postop swelling? I would not undergo any facelift without prednisolone.


Yes I have been able to get some Prednisolone, so I will take them to try and reduce the swelling quicker.
I thought that the scar was supposed to go behind the tragus? I think that’s what I was told anyway. I guess it could be worse if it went in front of the ear. I will have a word with them before the procedure, to see what they say.


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## BabyQ

@MissOrange what do you think of ASPS's SMAS incision placement of "before the hairline" vs other clinic's "behind the hairline"?  Also, what do you think of V.LIF?  They are a new clinic and claims they are the SMAS expert?  Thanks.


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## MissCharmy

Hi MissOrange, Thank you for posting this thread and for sharing your experience. You look beautiful


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## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> Here are my just over 6 months selfies without makeup. There is a slight downturn at the mouth corners but not noticeable from the front. I look younger than 26 in a t-shirt, shorts and trainers and certainly not 56. I have to be careful when I go out without makeup as I get treated like a kid! I literally fit into a size 11 yo boy's linen blazer or age 12/13 girl's clothing. I am that tiny. I keep wanting to go to university to study Korean or work in a hospital again as a junior doctor but I think my mind is playing tricks on me as it sees a young face in the mirror. It is like transitioning from old to young in looks as if I want to look my 'soul' age.
> 
> View attachment 5583262
> 
> 
> View attachment 5583263
> 
> 
> View attachment 5583264
> 
> 
> View attachment 5583265


MissO I note from side view your mouth corners are droopy whereas mine are droopy from front view which I intend to fix


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## MissOrange

BabyQ said:


> @MissOrange what do you think of ASPS's SMAS incision placement of "before the hairline" vs other clinic's "behind the hairline"?  Also, what do you think of V.LIF?  They are a new clinic and claims they are the SMAS expert?  Thanks.


Hi @BabyQ, ideally the incision should be buried in the hairline or the hairline should be shaved and then the incision made so the hair then grows over the scar. I have not heard of V LIF clinic.


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## Gats

Transformation2021 said:


> MissO I note from side view your mouth corners are droopy whereas mine are droopy from front view which I intend to fix



You may want to look into botox to DAO muscle.


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## joellea

MissOrange said:


> Here are my just over 6 months selfies without makeup. There is a slight downturn at the mouth corners but not noticeable from the front. I look younger than 26 in a t-shirt, shorts and trainers and certainly not 56. I have to be careful when I go out without makeup as I get treated like a kid! I literally fit into a size 11 yo boy's linen blazer or age 12/13 girl's clothing. I am that tiny. I keep wanting to go to university to study Korean or work in a hospital again as a junior doctor but I think my mind is playing tricks on me as it sees a young face in the mirror. It is like transitioning from old to young in looks as if I want to look my 'soul' age.
> 
> View attachment 5583262
> 
> 
> View attachment 5583263
> 
> 
> View attachment 5583264
> 
> 
> View attachment 5583265


You look stunning…am sure part of it it’s genetics though, I don’t think we would dream of looking this young although I look much younger being 43!
Am considering to visit Korea for few procedures but am terrified of what I read online, and how unlucky am even with the simplest procedures turn out to be bad n here -Dubai- so I can only imagine what could possibly go wrong in that crazy market of SK!! I was wondering though though if you could help guiding to the right clinics /doctors 
Am planning to go for mainly forehead reduction zygoma reduction & possibly blepharoplasty -not really needed- lip lift/corner mouth lift the last 2 procedures are relatively easier but could also go wrong if not with the right surgeon 
But my main thing is the forhead n the zygoma reduction and maybe a mini lower face lift or any other possible options for my Jowls!!  done threads here n did nothing 

Your help will be really appreciated can’t even trust the agency at this point reading all the horror stories of how biased they are…
I know you referred 2 clinics MPV AND DA the 1st has lots of bad reviews the latter not sure if all the reviews are genuine 
Thanks a lot again


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## Soodi

MissOrange said:


> @seoulsister you have a point! Omg 2 hours ago I took a selfie and for the first time in 5 years, I have finally regained the face MVP clinic gave me in July 2016!!! I have beaten myself up so much for ruining my face 3 days after the photo of me at age 50 for getting full face fat graft at DA clinic. And a tpfer told me I ruined my face with too much fat graft. Sigh. Well it has been a crazy 18 days going from a high fat diet and weighing 102.2 lbs with terrible sagging to a super low fat, high carbs and high protein diet with wearing a head compression garment and doing my facial exercises mouthing 'O' 'E' and now weighing 98.8 lbs 2 days in a row.
> 
> I shall keep my consult appointments as they are free and the train fares are non refundable and see what Dr Nick and Dr Amir say. To think Dr Bray's PA emailed me back in March saying I needed a £25k FL/NL!
> 
> I shall wait until next week and doll up to see how pretty I can look for my appointment with Dr Nick Rhodes in York. He might look at me and the saggy pics I sent and scratch his head in confusion and say there is nothing to lift? What happened?
> 
> I applied the free golden ratio app to the afters of postop ladies of Bray, Kremer and Nick Rhodes and the winner was Nick Rhodes. He made a 59 yo look 25 according to the golden ratio measurements for only £4995 (bleph+VR vertical macs FL).
> 
> The free golden ratio face app says I look 23 in the photo on the right. Yay 55 years old and still looking 20s.
> View attachment 5105911


I don’t understand your observations lol how did you possibly fairly assess the age outcomes of different women‘s b&a surgeries without matching their age and the exact time scale post op they were?? And I don’t believe the deep plane is inferior to the short scar smas lifts they don’t dissect deep enough deep plane is much better and no tension on the skin


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## MissOrange

I found this excellent explanation on a plastic surgery site of why we get saggy skin. With continuing facial bone loss as we age, getting zygoma reduction and v line may have consequences in later years. I can't imagine how caved in a face will look in one's 60s and onwards with natural aging bone loss on top of surgical bone reduction in one's earlier years. We simply do not have any 10 yearly follow up on bone contouring, especially after one hits 60. I cannot get zygoma reduction due to my fear of my body rejecting titanium but if I wait to my 60s, I may finally get a small face as my bones reabsorb with age.


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## MissOrange

Here is a skull at 35 vs 80 years of age. Really scary to think this much facial bone loss occurs as we age, especially in the mandible. With extreme bone contouring in Korea, what will the surgically thinned mandible look like when much older? Will the lower face simply collapse? Will one need a jaw implant but which surgeon would do that for a 70 year old? Is having a small face with bone cutting in one's 20s putting one at risk of facial collapse in one's 70s or earlier? Is having a mouth full of crowns over shaved down tooth pegs putting one at risk of becoming edentulous and hastening mandible bone loss? Icon Jaclyn Smith is 75 years old. Life is certainly not over in one's 70s. One needs strong facial bones as a scaffold for the facial structures and soft tissues. Sigh. Maybe I should not have shaved my chin with surgery as my jawbone needs all the bone it can get as I head into my 60s in 3.5 years time.


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## rosie8800

I have a small chin which doesn’t hold my fat and muscles on my face correctly so I have something called pseudo jowls in my 20s, so I think genioplasty would help and I wouldn’t need you to worry about bone loss


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## rosie8800

@MissOrange  if you would do facelift again and let’s say money isn’t a problem, which place would you go for one? My mom wants a facelift but we have zero clue who is best at it


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## MissOrange

rosie8800 said:


> @MissOrange  if you would do facelift again and let’s say money isn’t a problem, which place would you go for one? My mom wants a facelift but we have zero clue who is best at it


Hi @rosie8800, I am happy with my results with Dr Nick Rhodes in York, UK and would say whomever you choose, always take postop steroids for 5 days. I think it is a double bonus for me as he is also the most reasonably priced board certified plastic surgeon in the UK! I think @KCouture would be the best person to ask about facelifts in Korea. I haven’t had a facelift in Korea so cannot say who is best there.


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## Transformation2021

OK don't beat me up but Grand is on my list. Grand's head doctor has been imprisoned 5 years ago. 




I keep obsessing over this facelift below. She looks like she's had a stroke or Bell's Palsy in the before.


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## Transformation2021

More from Grand


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## Transformation2021

Last post from Grand


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## Moon88

MissOrange said:


> Wow @Moon88 I had no idea TLPS closed. They do extreme facial contouring. No, I do not know anything about Saekim. I would recommend Girin for facial contouring.


I just found Saekim still exist in Seoul, I'm going to Seoul next month, I will ask for deposit refunds, may I know your thoughts about Girin? I need to do F2F consultation with all shortlisted clinics.


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## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Last post from Grand
> 
> 
> View attachment 5591458
> 
> View attachment 5591459


@Transformation2021 thank you for sharing. Always enjoy looking at b&a photos. I notice in Korea surgeons focus on removing nasolabial lines or folds with their facelifts but in the US and UK ladies are more likely to have remaining nasolabial lines after a facelift. I womder if the technique differs in Korea and if so how?


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## MissOrange

Moon88 said:


> I just found Saekim still exist in Seoul, I'm going to Seoul next month, I will ask for deposit refunds, may I know your thoughts about Girin? I need to do F2F consultation with all shortlisted clinics.


@Moon88 have f2f consults at View, Regen, Girin and Saekim. See which clinic you prefer. Girin is known to give a more 3D zygoma reduction ie a more Western face. Regen do extreme bone contouring but the cheeks are more flat. It depends on which look you prefer.


----------



## Transformation2021

MissOrange said:


> @Transformation2021 thank you for sharing. Always enjoy looking at b&a photos. I notice in Korea surgeons focus on removing nasolabial lines or folds with their facelifts but in the US and UK ladies are more likely to have remaining nasolabial lines after a facelift. I womder if the technique differs in Korea and if so how?


I've read at least 2 US plastic surgeons say removing nasal fold completely is not a 'natural' look. If that's natural, I don't want it. IMO nasal folds are the one of the most aging features. I can handle a wrinkly forehead (I don't have one) before I can handle nasal folds


----------



## Soodi

MissOrange said:


> @Transformation2021 thank you for sharing. Always enjoy looking at b&a photos. I notice in Korea surgeons focus on removing nasolabial lines or folds with their facelifts but in the US and UK ladies are more likely to have remaining nasolabial lines after a facelift. I womder if the technique differs in Korea and if so how?


Most likely they add fat transfers with the facelift


----------



## Soodi

Transformation2021 said:


> Last post from Grand
> 
> 
> View attachment 5591458
> 
> View attachment 5591459


These afters look totally  photoshopped


----------



## BabyQ

I have a surgery date set for the end of September with V.LIF (Dr Shim) to do an endoscopic forehead lift and full face lift.  I'm turning 50 next month and this will be a birthday present for me.  I'm a bit nervous.  Any advice?


----------



## BabyQ

@rosie8800 I will post a detailed review of V.LIF after my surgery.  The reason I chose V.LIF is because they ONLY do Facelifts and Forehead Lifts at this clinic.  Here's their website:



			http://en.vlif.co.kr/m/01_introduce/introduce02.php


----------



## MissOrange

I no longer ask people to guess my age as I know I look decades younger but for fun I tried the face bot app. I must not reveal my chronological age, mention my daughter is almost 28 or that I am wed to a 64 yo. lol. Why give a stranger a heart attack? 

I plan on visiting my daughter near CalTech soon. I wonder if they will think I am a student there? lol.


----------



## MissOrange

I have come a long way from my first trip to Korea in 2016. Here I am looking 40s with bruised eyes next to Dr HyoSeok Seo in May 2016 after having had fat graft put in my upper eyelids and revision DES with ptosis correction. It was the start of my transformation. The next photo is a collage after full face fat graft in 2018 (by Dr Hyoseok Seo), young eyes 2 years post Dr Seo's revision des with lid fat graft, eyebrow tattooing, vermillion lip lift (by Dr Choi of MVP) to remove the filler scar tissue that gave me a duck lip, rib rhinoplasty, chinbone shaving, and bullhorn lip lift. I have come a long way reversing signs of aging by transforming both my face and body! Dr Seo turned me into a swan! Boy was I old and unattractive 6 years ago. But word of caution, if you become addicted to too many full face fat grafts, you may end up needing a facelift to cut away all the stretched skin from fat injections.


----------



## prayingforamiracle

Did Dr Seo did your facelift or just fat graft?


----------



## MissOrange

prayingforamiracle said:


> Did Dr Seo did your facelift or just fat graft?


@prayingforamiracle he did my fat graft. I had my facelift in the UK with Nick Rhodes. The best results are when one combines fat graft to replace lost volume with a facelift to remove loose skin.


----------



## MissOrange

When 3 clinics in Korea tell you you need a facelift, then believe them. Left pic is me sitting in a room in View in Korea in Jan 2020 and the right in my car last week almost 7 months post my second facelift with a total of 7 cms of skin cut off. The first FL doesn't count as I had no prednisolone so my thin skin stretched with postop swelling and I was almost back to square one.


----------



## Moon88

MissOrange said:


> @Moon88 have f2f consults at View, Regen, Girin and Saekim. See which clinic you prefer. Girin is known to give a more 3D zygoma reduction ie a more Western face. Regen do extreme bone contouring but the cheeks are more flat. It depends on which look you prefer.


thanks for your advice, I will walk in to each clinics to have F2F consultation when I'm in Seoul.


----------



## jewel18069us

Mi Miss Orange, you look amazing. 

I am consulting with Girin for multiple surgeries in Nov 2022. 

I see you recommend Girin for FC, what about the following? 

Rhinoplasty revision 
Facelift 
Eye lift 

I loved their pics on IG. 

Thanks!!


----------



## MissOrange

jewel18069us said:


> Mi Miss Orange, you look amazing.
> 
> I am consulting with Girin for multiple surgeries in Nov 2022.
> 
> I see you recommend Girin for FC, what about the following?
> 
> Rhinoplasty revision
> Facelift
> Eye lift
> 
> I loved their pics on IG.
> 
> Thanks!!


Hi @jewel18069us the two surgeons there are specialists in bone contouring and the other in eyes. I would not recommend going to a clinic without a rhino specialist for rhino revision. I have seen one Asian American lady’s result who had a great facial bone contouring result at Girin and chatted with her on facetime.


----------



## MissOrange

I just wanted to express my immense gratitude to this website and the owners for allowing me to share my lengthy personal photo diary journey and the global audience for being kind and friendly and not posting mean remarks to my sensitive before or healing photos. Each time I have shared my journey in order to help others in a UK and a US facelift fb group, I have been trolled, falsely accused of not being a doctor and had my private FB account hacked and a private photo posted in the fb group and mocked, then banned from the groups by the admins for drama created by trolls. I don’t get paid like social influencers and the incredible hits that this thread get benefits the purse forum not me. It makes me wonder if my haters are showing racist microaggressions? I wish I could be comfortable in my Korean ethnic skin and dye my hair back to black to embrace my ethnicity but while I live amongst a predominantly Caucasian population, I find people are more accepting of me in public with blonde hair. . Thanks again to the wonderful tpf readers for your kindness, understanding and sensitivity! I truly hope one day to be able to dye my hair back to black and not be affected by microaggressions. My Euroasian face created with multiple plastic surgeries is my way of adapting and trying to fit in here in the UK to reduce bias against me, both conscious and unconscious. I am struggling to learn Korean so cannot survive in Korea. It is extremely hard growing up and living for decades as the odd one out in the UK.


----------



## Backtoblack18

MissOrange said:


> I just wanted to express my immense gratitude to this website and the owners for allowing me to share my lengthy personal photo diary journey and the global audience for being kind and friendly and not posting mean remarks to my sensitive before or healing photos. Each time I have shared my journey in order to help others in a UK and a US facelift fb group, I have been trolled, falsely accused of not being a doctor and had my private FB account hacked and a private photo posted in the fb group and mocked, then banned from the groups by the admins for drama created by trolls. I don’t get paid like social influencers and the incredible hits that this thread get benefits the purse forum not me. It makes me wonder if my haters are showing racist microaggressions? I wish I could be comfortable in my Korean ethnic skin and dye my hair back to black to embrace my ethnicity but while I live amongst a predominantly Caucasian population, I find people are more accepting of me in public with blonde hair. . Thanks again to the wonderful tpf readers for your kindness, understanding and sensitivity! I truly hope one day to be able to dye my hair back to black and not be affected by microaggressions. My Euroasian face created with multiple plastic surgeries is my way of adapting and trying to fit in here in the UK to reduce bias against me, both conscious and unconscious.


Thank you for being bold and sharing your experiences. It is not easy being open about your surgery journey to strangers. Your posts and advice are greatly appreciated


----------



## jewel18069us

MissOrange said:


> Hi @jewel18069us the two surgeons there are specialists in bone contouring and the other in eyes. I would not recommend going to a clinic without a rhino specialist for rhino revision. I have seen one Asian American lady’s result who had a great facial bone contouring result at Girin and chatted with her on facetime.


Thank you so much. By any chance would you have recs for a clinic in Korea that would do all those surgeries well?


----------



## Teina

Can you please remind me about your Thigh lift surgery?


----------



## Lien

Backtoblack18 said:


> Thank you for being bold and sharing your experiences. It is not easy being open about your surgery journey to strangers. Your posts and advice are greatly appreciated


Agreed.  Thank you, @MissOrange .


----------



## Moon88

MissOrange said:


> When 3 clinics in Korea tell you you need a facelift, then believe them. Left pic is me sitting in a room in View in Korea in Jan 2020 and the right in my car last week almost 7 months post my second facelift with a total of 7 cms of skin cut off. The first FL doesn't count as I had no prednisolone so my thin skin stretched with postop swelling and I was almost back to square one.
> 
> View attachment 5596229


you look great, I'm in my late 30s, my face is sagging badly, worst than your before picture. I had face liposuction done 5 years ago. I believe I need a facelift. was your facelift surgery thread or other method?


----------



## Moon88

MissOrange said:


> I just wanted to express my immense gratitude to this website and the owners for allowing me to share my lengthy personal photo diary journey and the global audience for being kind and friendly and not posting mean remarks to my sensitive before or healing photos. Each time I have shared my journey in order to help others in a UK and a US facelift fb group, I have been trolled, falsely accused of not being a doctor and had my private FB account hacked and a private photo posted in the fb group and mocked, then banned from the groups by the admins for drama created by trolls. I don’t get paid like social influencers and the incredible hits that this thread get benefits the purse forum not me. It makes me wonder if my haters are showing racist microaggressions? I wish I could be comfortable in my Korean ethnic skin and dye my hair back to black to embrace my ethnicity but while I live amongst a predominantly Caucasian population, I find people are more accepting of me in public with blonde hair. . Thanks again to the wonderful tpf readers for your kindness, understanding and sensitivity! I truly hope one day to be able to dye my hair back to black and not be affected by microaggressions. My Euroasian face created with multiple plastic surgeries is my way of adapting and trying to fit in here in the UK to reduce bias against me, both conscious and unconscious. I am struggling to learn Korean so cannot survive in Korea. It is extremely hard growing up and living for decades as the odd one out in the UK.


I really appreciated your advices, I had my first plastic surgery done 5 years ago after reading your experiences. I had my DES done at MVP, doctor was Dr. Hyun, as I grow old, my eyes are getting sagging, gravity is so scary haha...I plan to do DES revision too.


----------



## MissOrange

Moon88 said:


> you look great, I'm in my late 30s, my face is sagging badly, worst than your before picture. I had face liposuction done 5 years ago. I believe I need a facelift. was your facelift surgery thread or other method?


Hi @Moon88 I tried threads but then realised I cannot tolerate foreign bodies so had them removed the next day. I had a smas facelift operation to cut away 7 cms of skin and suture up the smas muscle layer.


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> Can you please remind me about your Thigh lift surgery?


Hi @Teina, I cancelled this op as the thigh liposuction for the breast fat transfer sculpted my thighs.


----------



## MissOrange

Can I suggest that anyone getting full face fat transfer or facelift causing postop oedema/swelling consider getting prescribed postop steroids to reduce the swelling to minimal. In hindsight swelling from multiple fat transfers stretched my skin by a total of 7 cms and caused me to prematurely need a lower facelift. In fact after the first facial fat graft I had +++ swelling and I think that is why I flew back to Korea 3 months later when the skin sagged thinking my face had deflated and I needed more fat. Then it became a vicious cycle of topping up, swelling, loosening my facial skin and going back to korea to repeat the cycle!

I think if you are postmenopause with poor skin elasticity and less collagen, it may become essential to only get facial fat graft or facelift with steroids. No wonder Dr Ben Talei, Dr Amir Karam and Dr Andrew Jacono all give their facelift patients steroids. Top facelift surgeons know how important it is to reduce skin stretch with steroids.

Even my upper thigh skin got loose with multiple thigh liposuctions and I even booked a mini thigh lift, but I wore 24/7 tights/leggings for months after the liposculpture so I was lucky the 24/7 compression and liposculpture worked so I could cancel the mini thigh lift.

But my facial skin is much thinner and must have less collagen than my thighs so even wearing a head bandage was not enough as no one can keep it on 24/7 for months.

In my opinion there may be no point in getting a facelift or full face fat graft without steroids unless one has remarkable skin elasticity and collagen.

I didn't need 5 face fat transfers after all. I just needed postop steroids or a facelift earlier to stop the cycle and to maintain the fat with increased fat and protein in my diet.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I meet a Brit Hong Kong TPF friend who hasn't seen me f2f for over 3 years! His last assessment was that I had had too many facial fat transfers and should have stopped earlier. Even Dr Nick Rhodes suggested facial liposuction with his VR macs lift but I remembered that my sister had said she looked gaunt and much older after facial lipo and had fat put back in her face.

I need him to reassess my face today as over time fat reabsorbs a little and it has been 31 months since my final facial fat transfer. Plus I weigh only 95 lbs so hoping my face passes inspection especially after having facelifts. Let's hope I can have both a good face and good body instead of one or the other but not both at the same time. Wish me luck! I look different in mirrors, selfies, professional and digital cameras which fuels body dysmorphia so need an impartial person to honestly assess my face.


----------



## MissOrange

Yesterday's meet up was invaluable. I showed my tpf friend 3 photos of me taken at different distances from my phone and asked him which I most looked like and he chose number 1, the one in the car which I also felt looked most like me. Pic 2 then makes my face longer and thinner, my forehead bigger and my chin longer. Pic 3 makes my face look rounder and wider.

I then showed him professional photos of me with a fuller rounder face and he said no I did not look like that. What a relief! This echoed what a female friend had said in person too. My face must have bloated on dairy/fat from my lactose intolerance in the fuller photo? Or can a professional camera take bad angle photos? Or can even a professional camera lens have the same issues as a phone lens? I always thought just my tummy bloated like a watermelon when eating ice cream or scones with clotted cream or cake with cream cheese. Maybe with fat graft obtained from my tummy and thighs my face now has fat cells that are sensitive to a lactose/fat diet? The next question would be how soon after eating dairy will my face swell? Oh well it just means no ice cream or cake before photos if you are lactose intolerant.

He then got up and walked towards me from a distance to see if my face changed and it did not. Yet the phone camera does change the face at all distances! This is disconcerting which means the phone cam lens is not reliable. Yet there seems to be one distance between reading and arm's length that can capture your true likeness in a selfie!

At the end of the day it was good to know I looked like pic 1 and I did not have too much fat graft as I was right, some fat reabsorbs after 31 months. He told me I looked prettier without glasses. I still have a psychological hang up about not wearing glasses so for now I shall leave my varifocals on. I am now done with my plastic surgery journey. I have reached the end. Yay!!!

As for surgeons he recommends, forehead reduction by Dr Gregory Bran in the UK. His forehead was reduced by a couple of cms with no visible scar.

I also learned that Dream clinic is closest to Apgujeong station which means I must have passed it countless times! I have only visited ASPS, MVP and Fresh (furthest away) from the station.


----------



## MissOrange

I looked up Gregory Bran and wow! Take out your ruler or tape measure and measure your face to see if each part is in equal thirds. He has very impressive results for hairline lowering forehead reduction! Certainly an option instead of hair transplant if you have a big forehead? Hm I need to start measuring and pluck out any excess transplanted hairs to make my forehead look proportionate. https://gbaesthetics.com/photo-gallery-category/hairline-ba-1/


----------



## MissOrange

I have noticed numerous ladies who have had facelifts end up going back on regular fillers and botox as the years go by. This may be because the face continues to lose fat and bone every year after menopause. This may also explain why Dr Amir Karam does facial fat transfer with his facelifts to address the loss of volume. This suggests that ladies who have facelifts postmenopause may need to consider addressing continuing volume loss with natural fat, fat transfer or fillers.


----------



## thequeenservant

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Starry Eyes, thank you for your well wishes for my upcoming explant. You and I both have the same bmi! Dr John Burns does 360 degree whole body lipo to fill up breasts, ie arms, thighs, back, tummy etc. There is a fb group just on breast fat transfer with amazing b&a's and up to 14 month follow ups. One petite asian lady weighed only 94 lbs yet managed to get whole body lipo to give her d cups! But Burns costs $10k. Have you asked Fresh in korea if Dr Hong will take fat from your tummy for breast FT? I am thinking he will be cheaper than USA and if I wake up an A or AA, I shall be booking breast FT asap but keep forgetting it will be a struggle to find 400 ccs of fat from my used up thigh fat reserves and only bum and back fat left, oh and bat wing arms.
> 
> Now that HYS has gone back to black hair, I am thinking time to go back to dark but after all the hours in the salon and costs to go blonde, it would be a shame to darken just yet.
> 
> Thanks for the advice to go to the stylist for roots. I must say it is easier to do diy roots with a paintbrush and 2 mirrors. lol. Yes my girls say my hair looks very dry.
> 
> I have just been reading of yet another bii symptom....tooth decay!!! Yep 4 years ago out of the blue my 2 upper front teeth started aching and the dentist took an x ray that showed an abscess so he did 2 root canals at vast cost. The fb group of 58,000 ladies with bii keep reporting cracked teeth, needing 4 root canals, teeth extraction etc.! Then the latest research is root canal itself can trigger autoimmune disease as it often still contains necrotic tissue and bacteria! Some report being told to find a specialist dentist to carefully remove the root canal but then would need tooth extraction and a dental implant! And back to square one with a foreign implant! http://naturalsociety.com/how-root-...0IyZPSVS5hsjT0wsTcpKpSRSlYX0gjtVrd4LszTzhBn7g
> 
> Sometimes bii gets too much to bear but I am glad Crystal Hefner shared her bii story and explant as did many bloggers.
> 
> To cheer myself up I uploaded a free aging booth for fun to see what I would look like if I lived a century ago without access to fat graft, nasolabial radiesse filler, botox or hair dye! Brace yourself! Okay now I see why I get turned down for lower FL. Not quite there yet. .


Can you share the name of the facebook group?


----------



## MissOrange

thequeenservant said:


> Can you share the name of the facebook group?


Fat transfer to the breast fb group or breast implant illness fb group.


----------



## Everly07

Just to share my quotes received from Girin I am looking to look more youthful (important from someone in late 30s!)
- Elasticum Lifting 4mil kwn
- 7mm lateral canthoplasty (I am really keen with this) - 2.5mil kwn
- Full face fat graft 3.6mil
- 3types facial contouring - 15mil kwn
- Forehead lift 4mil kwn
- Non incisional ptosis correction double eyelid 2.25mil
Above before 30% discount.

Pictures from Girin looks good, especially the 7mm lateral cathoplasty, and the facial contouring results.

What do you think the above quoted prices (good value, too pricey?) and which procedures are great to do/good results @ Girin?

Thanks!


----------



## MissOrange

That time to compare my face to my icon Han Ye Seul. Bear in mind I am 56 and she turns 42 this month. Looks like my nose is small and short compared to hers. I asked Dr Hyo Seok Seo to give me her eyes. Pretty good as I do not have fake eyelashes to match hers here.


----------



## MissOrange

This is a stark reminder why I do not recommend use of fillers in the forehead, sub brow, or temples. When women lose volume post menopause, get full face fat graft from a top plastic surgeon like Dr Amir Karam, Dr Hyo Seok Seo (who did mine), or Dr Hong of Fresh clinic.

She wanted to replace aging volume loss but one needs massive quantities and that can only be achieved with fat grafting. Only one surgeon in the entire US agreed to try to fix her face, Dr Brian Boyd who performed a 16 hour autologous forehead transplant. Although the forehead was repaired, her face never looked like her stunning before and she is sadly left with an unnatural face (see pic). Fillers are foreign substances which can get infected, rejected, migrate, etc. and there is even a warning that the mrna vaccine may cause dermal fillers to swell at their injection sites! Autologous fat is natural.









						Woman is left blind in one eye and disfigured by botched fillers
					

Carol Bryan, 54, from Florida was left hideously disfigured after botched dermal fillers made her blind in one eye and caused her forehead to collapse.



					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## ceya

MissOrange said:


> That time to compare my face to my icon Han Ye Seul. Bear in mind I am 56 and she turns 42 this month. Looks like my nose is small and short compared to hers. I asked Dr Hyo Seok Seo to give me her eyes. Pretty good as I do not have fake eyelashes to match hers here.
> 
> View attachment 5601534


You still getting with Doctor Seo?  I plan to have my eyes done next year.  What season should be best for that?
Thank You!


----------



## MissOrange

ceya said:


> You still getting with Doctor Seo?  I plan to have my eyes done next year.  What season should be best for that?
> Thank You!


Hi @ceya, the best time to go is during school term times when business is quieter, Feb-May or Sept to Nov. Best time to also negotiate prices.


----------



## Everly07

Hi MissOrange, may I ask the threadlift types you may recommend? If you can advise the difference between Tess lift and Elasticum lift? Was recommended by 2 different clinic. Not sure if which is better. Thank you.


----------



## Puffy517

MissOrange said:


> I have noticed numerous ladies who have had facelifts end up going back on regular fillers and botox as the years go by. This may be because the face continues to lose fat and bone every year after menopause. This may also explain why Dr Amir Karam does facial fat transfer with his facelifts to address the loss of volume. This suggests that ladies who have facelifts postmenopause may need to consider addressing continuing volume loss with natural fat, fat transfer or fillers.


Hi I just discovered your thread. Thanks a lot for sharing your journey. Is it very informative! 
You mentioned a few times menopause. I just wonder if you've tried hormone therapy? Like getting your hormone numbers by blood tests and getting supplements for what is lacking. 
This can doa huge difference in skin appearance


----------



## sgbunbun

MissOrange said:


> Hi @glowup2021 I can recommend Dr Seo, now at Machimpyo, who did 2 of my facial fat transfers and Dr Hong of Fresh seems to get good results too but he is not a board certified plastic surgeon so maybe Dr Seo is best.
> 
> I would not recommend Dr Kim at DA clinic as his results were variable for my 3 facial fat transfers so I suspected I may have had a shadow doctor. Don't be trapped by prepaying for 2 fat transfers as the top up may be done by someone else or you may not like the results of the first transfer but be stuck as you prepaid for 2 like I did.


----------



## MissOrange

Puffy517 said:


> Hi I just discovered your thread. Thanks a lot for sharing your journey. Is it very informative!
> You mentioned a few times menopause. I just wonder if you've tried hormone therapy? Like getting your hormone numbers by blood tests and getting supplements for what is lacking.
> This can doa huge difference in skin appearance


Hi @Puffy517, yes I tried HRT patches March to July but had bleeding and severe breast pain after 3 months on HRT so reduced to half a patch then stopped. I subsequently learned that the patch has norethisterone, a progestogen with the highest risk of breast cancer. And that the patch has the same risk of cancer than HRT pills. Then my friend got diagnosed with breast cancer this year and thinks it is due to her HRT. I am fortunate that my face still looks good without HRT.


----------



## jason748

Everly07 said:


> Hi MissOrange, may I ask the threadlift types you may recommend? If you can advise the difference between Tess lift and Elasticum lift? Was recommended by 2 different clinic. Not sure if which is better. Thank you.


I'm interested too! I heard elasticum is a permanent thread that lasts just as long as regular facelift (korean sites claiming 5-10 years) but theres a small incision at the temple, which sounds better than a visible scar around the ear


----------



## beautifullife1712

Hi pretty @MissOrange. Can you tell how's the fat transfer to your breast currently? Has the fat survive?
I'm still looking Asian surgeon who can remove the breast implant with the whole capsule, please inform me if there's any.
I wonder why Korea doesn't have this surgeon since they are quite advanced in cosmetic surgery


----------



## MissOrange

jason748 said:


> I'm interested too! I heard elasticum is a permanent thread that lasts just as long as regular facelift (korean sites claiming 5-10 years) but theres a small incision at the temple, which sounds better than a visible scar around the ear


Do not do threadlifts! If you need your face lifted you may have excess skin that needs trimming and 1-2 threads on each side will not hold over time. Only do a lower facelift with smas.


----------



## MissOrange

beautifullife1712 said:


> Hi pretty @MissOrange. Can you tell how's the fat transfer to your breast currently? Has the fat survive?
> I'm still looking Asian surgeon who can remove the breast implant with the whole capsule, please inform me if there's any.
> I wonder why Korea doesn't have this surgeon since they are quite advanced in cosmetic surgery


Hi @beautifullife1712,

Yes the breast FT is surviving at 2 years and 1 month now. I was a 32E postop and now a 32D or 30E at 96 lbs weight. I was 99 lbs for my op.

Maybe find an oncology breast surgeon in Korea as they would know how to remove the capsule too. Then find a fat transfer plastic surgeon to fill at 6 months once your breasts have healed.


----------



## Transformation2021

OMG can you imagine being her. Chinese TV drama show. Her boyfriend dumps her 'cos she's too ugly and 3 months later she walks into a restaurant where he's sitting with his new girlfriend


----------



## beautifullife1712

MissOrange said:


> Hi @beautifullife1712,
> 
> Yes the breast FT is surviving at 2 years and 1 month now. I was a 32E postop and now a 32D or 30E at 96 lbs weight. I was 99 lbs for my op.
> 
> Maybe find an oncology breast surgeon in Korea as they would know how to remove the capsule too. Then find a fat transfer plastic surgeon to fill at 6 months once your breasts have healed.


Dear @MissOrange I heard many stories of un-surviving fat transfer in Korea, especially to the breast area. Besides the diet you've done post-operation, do you think there was anything different in your fat transfer process? Maybe the doctor has a different technique toward the harvested fat, or any other different technique from the korean surgeon?


----------



## MissOrange

beautifullife1712 said:


> Dear @MissOrange I heard many stories of un-surviving fat transfer in Korea, especially to the breast area. Besides the diet you've done post-operation, do you think there was anything different in your fat transfer process? Maybe the doctor has a different technique toward the harvested fat, or any other different technique from the korean surgeon?


Hi @beautifullife1712, many other surgeons use tumescent fluid to suction out the fat for grafting as it is easier and faster. My surgeon did it the old fashioned way with just suction which take skill, effort and takes hours. I think I was under for 5 hours! I think the tumescent fluid makes one think one is getting bigger breasts but actually when the fluid and swelling go, what is left is the fat graft which is not as much as if one only suctioned fat and injected that into the site. Also my surgeon chose fat from my resistant fat areas. My thighs seem to store fat no matter how much or how little I weigh. By choosing the fat area with stubborn fat, these fat cells are more likely to survive.


----------



## MissOrange

Approaching 8 months postop and all is well. Off to celebrate my eldest turning 28! My hair is finally growing. I last bleached my hair at a salon in January. I now rely on L'Oreal excellence 9.1 ash blonde which is not as toxic to my hair. I am holding my phone away from my face for a more true selfie.


----------



## beautifullife1712

MissOrange said:


> Hi @beautifullife1712, many other surgeons use tumescent fluid to suction out the fat for grafting as it is easier and faster. My surgeon did it the old fashioned way with just suction which take skill, effort and takes hours. I think I was under for 5 hours! I think the tumescent fluid makes one think one is getting bigger breasts but actually when the fluid and swelling go, what is left is the fat graft which is not as much as if one only suctioned fat and injected that into the site. Also my surgeon chose fat from my resistant fat areas. My thighs seem to store fat no matter how much or how little I weigh. By choosing the fat area with stubborn fat, these fat cells are more likely to survive.


thanks a lot for the valuable knowledge, I hope I'll pass this implant removal soon and can have a successful fat transfer as successful as yours


----------



## beautifullife1712

MissOrange said:


> Approaching 8 months postop and all is well. Off to celebrate my eldest turning 28! My hair is finally growing. I last bleached my hair at a salon in January. I now rely on L'Oreal excellence 9.1 ash blonde which is not as toxic to my hair. I am holding my phone away from my face for a more true selfie.
> 
> View attachment 5608411


Amazing, you look like only 20 yo !!


----------



## MissOrange

For any aging ladies out there losing hope, know that you too can become young and beautiful again by following my detailed journey and steps. I found a very old photo of me taken in Feb 2016 in Korea before I started my rejuvenation journey. I looked very old with hollow eyelids, flared nostrils, bony forehead, deep nasolabials and marionettes and a wide square jaw, although not unusual for a 49 yo lady. I am amazed when I look at myself now and see a young girl (without makeup) and slightly older but still young (with makeup). I never thought I could actually look pretty again (last time I looked pretty was age 24) but thanks to Dr Hyo Seok Seo (Korea), Dr Lucian Ion (UK), Dr Caroline Mills (UK) and Dr Nick Rhodes (UK), I have managed this too. It was a joint effort between 4 board certified plastic surgeons. I hope it lasts now that I have addressed and reversed all the signs of facial aging. I visit my Korean Uncle in LA next month. Last time he saw me I looked like the old face on the left. He will be shocked and not recognise me when I show up looking like the new face on the right!


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## moomoomui

@MissOrange Hello, new here!! And seeking advice on all of the issues you stated in your last post.  But first, let me just say you look flawlessly amazing!!!  And thank you for sharing your journey with us. 
So I have all of the issues that you stated but I'm only in mid 30's. Growing up I've always had a chubby round face. Now that I'm older with years of fluctuating weight and 3 kids later, my skin has sagged so much which caused deep nasolabial folds and jowls. The jowls give my face a square shape. When I pull the skin on side of face up, my face shape changes. My skin is also thin and I have loss of elasticity & Collagen which made me developed tear trough lines and under eye fat. Soooo depressing I don't even want to look at myself in the mirror. I just look tired all of the time.  With that being said,  I am considering a full face lift but super scared of botched surgeries as I wouldnt be able to afford revisions. To add, i am unsure if mid 30's is too early for full face lift? And would a face-lift even correct all of my issues? or would I also need a lower bleph? 
If you could start your journey all over again, what would be the go to surgery to achieve the look you have today and which ONE Dr. Would you go to?
Also, would you recommend going to SK for a face-lift? (Open to having surgery in SK as I feel they have more experience with Asian facial features. Correct me if I am wrong though!)
Hope to hear back from you soon!! 
Xoxo


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## MissOrange

The journey of my moles (surgical markers). The left is 11 June 2021 before any facelifts and the right is 11 Sept 2022, 7.5 months after my 2nd facelift but with postop steroids. The mole is the highest by my earlobe!

The trio photo charts the journey of the moles before any facelift, 5 months post FL 1 and 7.5 months post FL2 with steroids.


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## MissOrange

moomoomui said:


> @MissOrange Hello, new here!! And seeking advice on all of the issues you stated in your last post.  But first, let me just say you look flawlessly amazing!!!  And thank you for sharing your journey with us.
> So I have all of the issues that you stated but I'm only in mid 30's. Growing up I've always had a chubby round face. Now that I'm older with years of fluctuating weight and 3 kids later, my skin has sagged so much which caused deep nasolabial folds and jowls. The jowls give my face a square shape. When I pull the skin on side of face up, my face shape changes. My skin is also thin and I have loss of elasticity & Collagen which made me developed tear trough lines and under eye fat. Soooo depressing I don't even want to look at myself in the mirror. I just look tired all of the time.  With that being said,  I am considering a full face lift but super scared of botched surgeries as I wouldnt be able to afford revisions. To add, i am unsure if mid 30's is too early for full face lift? And would a face-lift even correct all of my issues? or would I also need a lower bleph?
> If you could start your journey all over again, what would be the go to surgery to achieve the look you have today and which ONE Dr. Would you go to?
> Also, would you recommend going to SK for a face-lift? (Open to having surgery in SK as I feel they have more experience with Asian facial features. Correct me if I am wrong though!)
> Hope to hear back from you soon!!
> Xoxo


Hi @moomoomui,

Sounds like you need a facelift as you have a sagging square face with deep nasolabials and jowls and it looks improved when you lift your skin up. As you have thin skin like I do, then you absolutely need postop steroids to avoid your skin stretching with postop swelling as a head bandage is not enough. The question is do Korean surgeons give postop steroids (prednisolone or prednisone or medro pack)? As you say you only want one facelift and not a revision. I learned the hard way how important it was to have access to a week of postop steroids. If you can confirm your surgeon in Korea does prescribe postop steroids, then Dr Lee at ASPS, Dr Dongman Park at Bio clinic and maybe Dream clinic too are places to research for facelifts. Btw, a friend told me that ASPS is having a sale on facelifts. I would not undertake any facelift without steroids postop as swelling will occur without steroids, and the skin will stretch whether you get full face fat graft, a facelift or bone contouring surgery.

In the UK, ladies are slowly urging their surgeons to prescribe postop steroids like the top surgeons in the US. A lady has confirmed that Dr Marando will prescribe her postop steroids after her lateral smasectomy. Another lady managed to get steroids from Dr Anthony Macquillan after her buccal fat pad removal and her result is amazing with no swelling.

As for going back in time, I think there is no single surgeon who could achieve the results I have today. Only a plastic surgeon specialist in eyes and eyelid fat graft (Dr HyoSeok Seo) could have rejuvenated my old eyes. He does not do facelifts. Dr Nick Rhodes in York, UK is the cheapest board certified surgeon in the UK (£3495 or roughly 4 million won) and cheaper than Korea (ranges from 6.5-15 million won), who makes one look more beautiful with his facelifts but to avoid revision, one needs to source postop steroids. I needed Dr Choi at MVP to remove the upper duck lip scar and fillers with his vermillion lip lift and I needed Caroline Mills in London to do a dramatic bullhorn lip lift. I needed Mr Michael May to do a hairline transplant for my genetic receding frontal hairline. I never researched forehead shortening at the time.

But for you it sounds like you can get away with just one surgeon to do your facelift as long as you source postop steroids from your surgeon or family doctor. Hope this helps.


----------



## Transformation2021

Hooray for Grand another amazing facelift


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## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Hooray for Grand another amazing facelift
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5612634


There was a patient death at Grand. Also never judge postop photos at 3 months. Always wait to 6 months. And try to look for postop videos as clinics may photoshop after photos. I ruled out Grand as they are expensive, had a patient death and have too many doctors so high risk of shadow doctors.









						One of Top Plastic Surgery Clinics in Korea Rebuts Charges Related to Ghost Surgery Scandal
					

Grand Plastic Surgery, which was prosecuted for having non-plastic surgeons stand in for plastic surgeons in the operating room without patients’ knowledge, allegedly spoke in its defense that the ghost surgery practice was part of a joint treatment during the third trial held on July 12. Grand Plas




					www.businesskorea.co.kr


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## MissOrange

Remember ladies, big hospitals like grand, ID, Wonjin have a reputation for hiring ghost shadow doctors! 226 injuries from ghost surgeries is a big red flag! https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/10/asia...ctors-plastic-surgery-intl-hnk-dst/index.html


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## T0KKI

MissOrange said:


> Remember ladies, big hospitals like grand, ID, Wonjin have a reputation for hiring ghost shadow doctors! 226 injuries from ghost surgeries is a big red flag! https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/10/asia...ctors-plastic-surgery-intl-hnk-dst/index.html


Hi MissOrange, 
I've been following some of your posts and comments as you offer such great advice and recommendations. I'm going to Korea to have revisional surgeries and other corrections in October. My main hospital I am thinking of going to is DA PS. Have you heard of any ghost shadow doctors at that hospital? Is this a hospital that is on the "safe list"?
Thanks in advance


----------



## moomoomui

MissOrange said:


> Hi @moomoomui,
> 
> Sounds like you need a facelift as you have a sagging square face with deep nasolabials and jowls and it looks improved when you lift your skin up. As you have thin skin like I do, then you absolutely need postop steroids to avoid your skin stretching with postop swelling as a head bandage is not enough. The question is do Korean surgeons give postop steroids (prednisolone or prednisone or medro pack)? As you say you only want one facelift and not a revision. I learned the hard way how important it was to have access to a week of postop steroids. If you can confirm your surgeon in Korea does prescribe postop steroids, then Dr Lee at ASPS, Dr Dongman Park at Bio clinic and maybe Dream clinic too are places to research for facelifts. Btw, a friend told me that ASPS is having a sale on facelifts. I would not undertake any facelift without steroids postop as swelling will occur without steroids, and the skin will stretch whether you get full face fat graft, a facelift or bone contouring surgery.
> 
> In the UK, ladies are slowly urging their surgeons to prescribe postop steroids like the top surgeons in the US. A lady has confirmed that Dr Marando will prescribe her postop steroids after her lateral smasectomy. Another lady managed to get steroids from Dr Anthony Macquillan after her buccal fat pad removal and her result is amazing with no swelling.
> 
> As for going back in time, I think there is no single surgeon who could achieve the results I have today. Only a plastic surgeon specialist in eyes and eyelid fat graft (Dr HyoSeok Seo) could have rejuvenated my old eyes. He does not do facelifts. Dr Nick Rhodes in York, UK is the cheapest board certified surgeon in the UK (£3495 or roughly 4 million won) and cheaper than Korea (ranges from 6.5-15 million won), who makes one look more beautiful with his facelifts but to avoid revision, one needs to source postop steroids. I needed Dr Choi at MVP to remove the upper duck lip scar and fillers with his vermillion lip lift and I needed Caroline Mills in London to do a dramatic bullhorn lip lift. I needed Mr Michael May to do a hairline transplant for my genetic receding frontal hairline. I never researched forehead shortening at the time.
> 
> But for you it sounds like you can get away with just one surgeon to do your facelift as long as you source postop steroids from your surgeon or family doctor. Hope this helps.
> 
> View attachment 5612371


Thank you so much for the response and input. After reading so many horror stories of botched surgeries and ghost doctors I am so hesitant. Feel so lost and don't know what to do. I might consider the Dr. Nick Rhodes you went to. Will make an appointment for consultation and see how it goes. And will definitely try to get my hands on prednisone if I end up going with him for the survey. I mean I love the look that Korean Doctors can create but the risk of having a ghost dr perform on me is soo high that I'm reconsidering. 
If I can't get my hands on prednisone here in Canada, do you know if Dr. RHODES office prescribes that now? Or is there anywhere close to him I get from? Thanks for all your recommendations!


----------



## MissOrange

moomoomui said:


> Thank you so much for the response and input. After reading so many horror stories of botched surgeries and ghost doctors I am so hesitant. Feel so lost and don't know what to do. I might consider the Dr. Nick Rhodes you went to. Will make an appointment for consultation and see how it goes. And will definitely try to get my hands on prednisone if I end up going with him for the survey. I mean I love the look that Korean Doctors can create but the risk of having a ghost dr perform on me is soo high that I'm reconsidering.
> If I can't get my hands on prednisone here in Canada, do you know if Dr. RHODES office prescribes that now? Or is there anywhere close to him I get from? Thanks for all your recommendations!


Hi @moomoomui, yes that is the risk with Korea. Both ASPS and Bio clinic have many doctors so how can one be 100% confident that the head surgeon will do their facelift while under sedation? It is better to choose smaller clinics with 1-2 doctors so one knows there can be no switch.

No, Dr Rhodes does not prescribe steroids. I have been contacted by yet another lady patient of his whose face dropped at 4 months this month. I repeatedly suggested they offer postop steroids to their patients to avoid requests for revisions at 4-6 months. Sigh. The op is done under local so there is zero chance of a doctor swap. One would have to source a rx from a private doctor.


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## MissOrange

Here is a side by side of me at age 24 vs me this month at age 56. I never dreamed I would look like this at 56!


----------



## moomoomui

MissOrange said:


> Hi @moomoomui, yes that is the risk with Korea. Both ASPS and Bio clinic have many doctors so how can one be 100% confident that the head surgeon will do their facelift while under sedation? It is better to choose smaller clinics with 1-2 doctors so one knows there can be no switch.
> 
> No, Dr Rhodes does not prescribe steroids. I have been contacted by yet another lady patient of his whose face dropped at 4 months this month. I repeatedly suggested they offer postop steroids to their patients to avoid requests for revisions at 4-6 months. Sigh. The op is done under local so there is zero chance of a doctor swap. One would have to source a rx from a private doctor.


So would you say Dr. Rhodes is the Dr to go to as long as you come prepares with steroids?


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## xxphilip

Oh wow I didn’t realise negotiating was a thing for plastic surgeries. Thanks for sharing!


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## MissOrange

xxphilip said:


> Oh wow I didn’t realise negotiating was a thing for plastic surgeries. Thanks for sharing!


Hi @xxphilip, yes it is expected one negotiates in Korea but if the clinic has already set a very low price, then they will not. Tactics you may use are 1. recommended by x a past patient, 2. promise to write a review on tpf or allow the clinic staff to write a review for you on realself 3. permission to use your b&a photos on their social media, 4. offer to pay in cash, preferably in US dollars, 5. book in low season and 6. get written quotes from 2 other clinics and your clinic of choice may then lower their price to make it affordable for you but you must never share how much they dropped it just for you. You should get a tax refund at the airport with an official surgery receipt from the clinic but some clinics then add 10% to the surgery so you could offer to forego the tax refund and get 10% off. The government sets a limit for each clinic's income from foreigners so many prefer cash off the record.


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## MissOrange

moomoomui said:


> So would you say Dr. Rhodes is the Dr to go to as long as you come prepares with steroids?


Hi @moomoomui, yes absolutely but only with steroids. He now charges £3995 which is like $4500 as the pound is at its lowest in 37 years against the US dollar. The challenge is getting a consult. His first available f2f free consult is in January but once seen surgery can be booked within the month. It is not like Korea where you can get same day walk in consultations and surgery next day. But keep calling for any last minute cancellations. That's how I got my consultation and surgery earlier.

Two sisters are having facelifts this month, one is a friend and getting a free revision with Nick (rrp £3995 or $4,500). She too learned the hard way and has now sourced steroids elsewhere and will take 30 mg a day for the first week postop and her  younger sister (@angela.transformation on instagram) won the Bray competition for a free full face makeover including facelift (rrp £42,000 or $47,000), brow lift, bleph etc. who will also be prescribed steroids by Bray but at doses too low in my opinion to be as effective. Bray is operating on her tomorrow vs Nick is operating on her older sister next Tuesday. I am excited to see the results of the sister experiment! My vote is for Nick to win.


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## Otto8

@MissOrange , This is from Jag Chana's site.  I am not sure I want this sort of deep plane facelift.  Yes, she has improved a lot.  But, there is still a hint of a lax jawline. He also said no skin needs to be removed for me.   I was holding up my jawline and I am wondering where all that skin will go if he does not remove skin.   Am I being unrealistic?  

I have not chosen yet which surgeon to use.  I feel I should do it in parts.  Lipo first.  Eyes, and then finally FL.  This way, at every juncture, the different specialists can see what to do.


----------



## worrywart99

Hi @MissOrange, greetings to you. I just had a full face fat transfer on Monday. Was told that maximum of 50cc pure fat was harvested from each inner thigh. I'm 38 this year, 149cm and weight 47kg. Now I am so anxious that if 50cc pure fat from each thigh may create any irregularity later (I did not do much research on lipo before procedure). My thighs are slightly swollen but they are not painful. I am in my compression garment 24/7 since day 1 post op. I wonder based on your experience, if 50cc fat harvested from each inner thigh is too much? 

Thank you!


----------



## shruthi

MissOrange said:


> For any aging ladies out there losing hope, know that you too can become young and beautiful again by following my detailed journey and steps. I found a very old photo of me taken in Feb 2016 in Korea before I started my rejuvenation journey. I looked very old with hollow eyelids, flared nostrils, bony forehead, deep nasolabials and marionettes and a wide square jaw, although not unusual for a 49 yo lady. I am amazed when I look at myself now and see a young girl (without makeup) and slightly older but still young (with makeup). I never thought I could actually look pretty again (last time I looked pretty was age 24) but thanks to Dr Hyo Seok Seo (Korea), Dr Lucian Ion (UK), Dr Caroline Mills (UK) and Dr Nick Rhodes (UK), I have managed this too. It was a joint effort between 4 board certified plastic surgeons. I hope it lasts now that I have addressed and reversed all the signs of facial aging. I visit my Korean Uncle in LA next month. Last time he saw me I looked like the old face on the left. He will be shocked and not recognise me when I show up looking like the new face on the right!
> 
> View attachment 5608923


Dear Miss, your transformation is breathtaking. You have thanked your surgeons [Dr Hyo Seok Seo (Korea), Dr Lucian Ion (UK), Dr Caroline Mills (UK) and Dr Nick Rhodes (UK)] in your post. Can you please let me know who did what? It will be a great help. Thank You xoxo


----------



## shruthi

BabyQ said:


> I have a surgery date set for the end of September with V.LIF (Dr Shim) to do an endoscopic forehead lift and full face lift.  I'm turning 50 next month and this will be a birthday present for me.  I'm a bit nervous.  Any advice?


Please keep us updated on your surgery and the progress. Have a safe journey


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## JLeeLee91

MissOrange said:


> Here is a side by side of me at age 24 vs me this month at age 56. I never dreamed I would look like this at 56!
> 
> View attachment 5613085


Wow! You already was beautiful (beautiful skin etc.) but you look absolutely gorgeous.

Your info is really helpful as well


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## JLeeLee91

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Teina, I cancelled this op as the thigh liposuction for the breast fat transfer sculpted my thighs.


Do you also recommend steroids for after facial contouring with lipo? I am 40 with mild sagging in the jowl area, but not too bad.

And what steroids should I ask for/ which do you recommend?

Thank you


----------



## Transformation2021

Days until pretty. Worth every penny


----------



## MissOrange

T0KKI said:


> Hi MissOrange,
> I've been following some of your posts and comments as you offer such great advice and recommendations. I'm going to Korea to have revisional surgeries and other corrections in October. My main hospital I am thinking of going to is DA PS. Have you heard of any ghost shadow doctors at that hospital? Is this a hospital that is on the "safe list"?
> Thanks in advance


Hi @tokki, I have been to DA clinic also called DAPRS three times for facial fat grafting. They are very expensive. I may have had a shadow doctor as 2 out of the 3 times my face ended up looking awful. They do not supply leg bandages for the extensive bruising from the lipo sites to get fat for the face. The third time they tried to overcharge me 5 times what was agreed. I heard a male screaming in agony in a postop private room. The consent form describes their general anaesthesia as horrible. I almost died from their GA when I awoke unable to breathe out the noxious gas. No, I would not recommend this clinic. It has too many doctors and is only interested in money. They are also not ethical in my opinion as I recall looking in a mirror in their consult room thinking maybe I do not need another top up. They should have said no you do not need but went ahead with a full face top up.


----------



## MissOrange

worrywart99 said:


> Hi @MissOrange, greetings to you. I just had a full face fat transfer on Monday. Was told that maximum of 50cc pure fat was harvested from each inner thigh. I'm 38 this year, 149cm and weight 47kg. Now I am so anxious that if 50cc pure fat from each thigh may create any irregularity later (I did not do much research on lipo before procedure). My thighs are slightly swollen but they are not painful. I am in my compression garment 24/7 since day 1 post op. I wonder based on your experience, if 50cc fat harvested from each inner thigh is too much?
> 
> Thank you!


Hi @worrywart99, as long as they took the same amount from each thigh and you wear the compression 24/7 until your thighs are healed, you should be fine. My problem was when DA clinic only took from my left side which has less fat than my right so it left a deep indentation deformity.


----------



## MissOrange

Transformation2021 said:


> Days until pretty. Worth every penny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5615762


Do you work for Grand @Transformation2021? Stop continually posting ads for Grand in my thread please. This clinic is on my blacklist and I do not recommend.


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## MissOrange

JLeeLee91 said:


> Do you also recommend steroids for after facial contouring with lipo? I am 40 with mild sagging in the jowl area, but not too bad.
> 
> And what steroids should I ask for/ which do you recommend?
> 
> Thank you


Hi @JLeeLee91 yes absolutely especially as you already have mild sagging. Bone contouring will remove bone so less bony support for the face. The soft tissues will fall. Ask a physician to prescribe prednisolone 30 mg a day for the first week. If too much bone is removed or too many tissue adhesions or ligaments cut or too much fat liposuctioned from the face, you may need a facelift to remove excess loose skin and lift up the fallen soft tissues and smas muscle.


----------



## MissOrange

An update on the sister experiment...deep plane pro bono facelift and necklift (rrp approx £42k) with Bray vs smas plication with my surgeon Nick Rhodes whose facelifts start at £3995 and FL/NL at £9k. The younger sister has now had her pro bono surgery with Dr Bray (see pic) and next week her older sis goes back under the knife with Dr Rhodes but this time will take postop steroids. Who will have the better result? Dr Bray does not operate in London as suggested by his post but his clinic is outside London in Kent so his prices are not high due to "London" prices. London prices are £12-16k for a smas or deep plane FL/NL.

Do not instinctively go for the most expensive surgeon but find real past patients, follow their results for 6 months to a year and preferably find videos. Try to find their results posted by themselves and not the clinic which may use flattering lighting, staging etc.

At 8 months now and my moles tell me my face is still lifted! £3495 beats £42,000 any day. Imagine paying up to $120,000 on a facelift in the US! The world has gone topsy turvy making plastic surgeons multi millionaires on a procedure that can be done for £4-9k in York, UK or 6.5-9 million won ($6-8.5k) in Seoul, Korea.


----------



## JLeeLee91

MissOrange said:


> Hi @JLeeLee91 yes absolutely especially as you already have mild sagging. Bone contouring will remove bone so less bony support for the face. The soft tissues will fall. Ask a physician to prescribe prednisolone 30 mg a day for the first week. If too much bone is removed or too many tissue adhesions or ligaments cut or too much fat liposuctioned from the face, you may need a facelift to remove excess loose skin and lift up the fallen soft tissues and smas muscle.


Thanks a million!


----------



## MissOrange

shruthi said:


> Dear Miss, your transformation is breathtaking. You have thanked your surgeons [Dr Hyo Seok Seo (Korea), Dr Lucian Ion (UK), Dr Caroline Mills (UK) and Dr Nick Rhodes (UK)] in your post. Can you please let me know who did what? It will be a great help. Thank You xoxo


Hi @shruthi, Dr Hyo Seok Seo did my eyelid fat graft and revision DES with ptosis correction and my full face fat graft with top ups. Dr Lucian Ion did my rib rhinoplasty to add height and projection and raise the tip and also shaved my chin bone as my chin was too pointy and strong. I know Korean ladies would die for a V line with a pointy strong chin! lol. Dr Caroline Mills did my dramatic bullhorn lip lift with lip eversion. Dr Nick Rhodes did my facelift. But if you get a facelift only do with postop steroids to stop any facial skin stretch from swelling. And for my body transformation, Dr David Floyd gets my praise for my breast fat transfer and lower body liposculpture. Hope this helps. x


----------



## shruthi

MissOrange said:


> Hi @shruthi, Dr Hyo Seok Seo did my eyelid fat graft and revision DES with ptosis correction and my full face fat graft with top ups. Dr Lucian Ion did my rib rhinoplasty to add height and projection and raise the tip and also shaved my chin bone as my chin was too pointy and strong. I know Korean ladies would die for a V line with a pointy strong chin! lol. Dr Caroline Mills did my dramatic bullhorn lip lift with lip eversion. Dr Nick Rhodes did my facelift. But if you get a facelift only do with postop steroids to stop any facial skin stretch from swelling. And for my body transformation, Dr David Floyd gets my praise for my breast fat transfer and lower body liposculpture. Hope this helps. x


Thanks for the information, Missorange . It was very helpful
I am interested in getting a facelift and other needed surgeries to look little bit young (or should I say less old ). Can you suggest what procedure would help me the most. I am posting my picture here . I am of Indian origin and have a thick skin. I do not know what kind of facelift would help me. I also like to correct my asymmetrical nostrils resulted from a Rhinoplasty (20 years ago). Your suggestions on this and other procedures would be really helpful. Thanks in advance


----------



## MissOrange

shruthi said:


> Thanks for the information, Missorange . It was very helpful
> I am interested in getting a facelift and other needed surgeries to look little bit young (or should I say less old ). Can you suggest what procedure would help me the most. I am posting my picture here . I am of Indian origin and have a thick skin. I do not know what kind of facelift would help me. I also like to correct my asymmetrical nostrils resulted from a Rhinoplasty (20 years ago). Your suggestions on this and other procedures would be really helpful. Thanks in advance
> View attachment 5616431


Hi @shruthi, yes I agree to rhinoplasty to correct the collapsed alar (nostrils) and full face fat graft as there has been a loss of fat in your forehead, temples, upper cheeks etc. I don’t think you need a facelift yet. Yours is more a need to replace lost volume with aging.


----------



## shruthi

MissOrange said:


> Hi @shruthi, yes I agree to rhinoplasty to correct the collapsed alar (nostrils) and full face fat graft as there has been a loss of fat in your forehead, temples, upper cheeks etc. I don’t think you need a facelift yet. Yours is more a need to replace lost volume with aging.





shruthi said:


> Thanks for the information, Missorange . It was very helpful
> I am interested in getting a facelift and other needed surgeries to look little bit young (or should I say less old ). Can you suggest what procedure would help me the most. I am posting my picture here . I am of Indian origin and have a thick skin. I do not know what kind of facelift would help me. I also like to correct my asymmetrical nostrils resulted from a Rhinoplasty (20 years ago). Your suggestions on this and other procedures would be really helpful. Thanks in advance



Thanks for the suggestions, Missorgange. Really appreciate it


----------



## yellow-sesame

Hi @MissOrange after reading through *ALL* of the pages, I'm getting a fat graft to my breasts tomorrow (in addition to full body lipo). Any tips for making the fat graft a success? Like, not wearing a bra etc?


----------



## MissOrange

yellow-sesame said:


> Hi @MissOrange after reading through *ALL* of the pages, I'm getting a fat graft to my breasts tomorrow (in addition to full body lipo). Any tips for making the fat graft a success? Like, not wearing a bra etc?


Hi @yellow-sesame well done on reading all the pages! Do you know if your surgeon is using tumescent liposuction or traditional liposuction as it affects the amount of fat one is left with after deswelling. I would only go for traditional liposuction.

Here is a screenshot from a year ago of my advice. I am now over 2 years post and still retaining which is amazing as I now weigh 5 lbs less than on my op day!


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## yellow-sesame

Thank you sooo much @MissOrange !! I'm getting full body liposuction so will need to exercise/lose more weight post-surgery I think, but I will definitely follow the rest of the advice to a T. You really are such a well of knowledge


----------



## MissOrange

yellow-sesame said:


> Thank you sooo much @MissOrange !! I'm getting full body liposuction so will need to exercise/lose more weight post-surgery I think, but I will definitely follow the rest of the advice to a T. You really are such a well of knowledge


@yellow-sesame Good luck today! Fighting! x


----------



## MissOrange

It has now been a full 8 months since I had the cheapest facelift (£3495=$3600= 3 million won) with free retightening in the world by a board certified plastic surgeon and it is still holding up nicely. Postop steroids for a week is a must to prevent skin stretch reversing the facelift and only £9.35 on a NHS rx or a bit more on a private rx. I do not advocate deep plane FLs as it causes too much disruption to the deep tissues and structures and you may struggle to find anyone willing to touch another surgeon’s deep plane revision. The fault is the laxity of skin and smas muscle layer so it makes sense to trim the skin and to pull up the smas and either fix it with rows and rows of dissolvable sutures which get replaced by scar tissue or do a smasectomy to cut and trim the muscle layer. I am not an advocate of contributing to a plastic surgeon’s rolls royce or flash ferrari or a multimillion pound condo by the beach! My advice is to stop facial fat grafts at 2-3 max and then go for a facelift. The more fat you put in, the more the skin will stretch and the faster the need for a facelift.

I have had a week of very bad insomnia so am biting the bullet and going back on HRT but this time it is the evorel 25 patch and the natural progestogen utrogestan which has the least risk of cancer. I found a top breast surgeon who also advises evorel patch or gel with utrogestan! Hopefully my hair will stop thinning as it is aging when I get blowdries which accentuate how fine my hair is getting. I have researched further and it looks like if I quit HRT in less than a year, the risk reverses so that is my plan for now. What I did not know and learned is that the natural risk of breast cancer is 1 in 50 at age 50 and 1 in 11 at age 80! Aging is a risk factor in itself for cancer!!!


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## cherrykiss

Hey MissOrange, what are your thoughts on fat transfer to face in 20s-30s? 

I had it done once when I was 25 in SKorea which didn't hold up at all (I was losing weight at the time), so again at 28 but very small amount to pad under the eyes... now at 32 its sunken again... wondering if it needs to be "topped up" but also worried it could be stretching my skin?...


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## Mimmiesmama

worrywart99 said:


> Hi @MissOrange, greetings to you. I just had a full face fat transfer on Monday. Was told that maximum of 50cc pure fat was harvested from each inner thigh. I'm 38 this year, 149cm and weight 47kg. Now I am so anxious that if 50cc pure fat from each thigh may create any irregularity later (I did not do much research on lipo before procedure). My thighs are slightly swollen but they are not painful. I am in my compression garment 24/7 since day 1 post op. I wonder based on your experience, if 50cc fat harvested from each inner thigh is too much?
> 
> Thank you!


Don’t worry, it’s such a small amount and you won’t even notice it And it’s from the inner thigh so even less likely. That’s 25cc each! I had mine from my abdomen and couldn’t tell the difference.


----------



## Mimmiesmama

MissOrange said:


> It has now been a full 8 months since I had the cheapest facelift (£3495=$3600= 3 million won) with free retightening in the world by a board certified plastic surgeon and it is still holding up nicely. Postop steroids for a week is a must to prevent skin stretch reversing the facelift and only £9.35 on a NHS rx or a bit more on a private rx. I do not advocate deep plane FLs as it causes too much disruption to the deep tissues and structures and you may struggle to find anyone willing to touch another surgeon’s deep plane revision. The fault is the laxity of skin and smas muscle layer so it makes sense to trim the skin and to pull up the smas and either fix it with rows and rows of dissolvable sutures which get replaced by scar tissue or do a smasectomy to cut and trim the muscle layer. I am not an advocate of contributing to a plastic surgeon’s rolls royce or flash ferrari or a multimillion pound condo by the beach! My advice is to stop facial fat grafts at 2-3 max and then go for a facelift. The more fat you put in, the more the skin will stretch and the faster the need for a facelift.
> 
> I have had a week of very bad insomnia so am biting the bullet and going back on HRT but this time it is the evorel 25 patch and the natural progestogen utrogestan which has the least risk of cancer. I found a top breast surgeon who also advises evorel patch or gel with utrogestan! Hopefully my hair will stop thinning as it is aging when I get blowdries which accentuate how fine my hair is getting. I have researched further and it looks like if I quit HRT in less than a year, the risk reverses so that is my plan for now. What I did not know and learned is that the natural risk of breast cancer is 1 in 50 at age 50 and 1 in 11 at age 80! Aging is a risk factor in itself for cancer!!!
> 
> View attachment 5620691


Looking flawless..Ms Orange am utterly gobsmacked at how incredible you look. May I ask which U.k surgeon did your lower lid blepharoplasty with fat repositioning for under eye bag? Was it trans conjunctival? As well as your abdominal liposuction who Was your surgeon? Did you notice any lumpiness of skin/ irregularities/ tethering after abdominal lipo? Many thanks as always


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## worrywart99

Mimmiesmama said:


> Don’t worry, it’s such a small amount and you won’t even notice it And it’s from the inner thigh so even less likely. That’s 25cc each! I had mine from my abdomen and couldn’t tell the difference.


Thanks, @Mimmiesmama! That’s very reassuring


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## Everly07

MissOrange said:


> Hi @shruthi, Dr Hyo Seok Seo did my eyelid fat graft and revision DES with ptosis correction and my full face fat graft with top ups. Dr Lucian Ion did my rib rhinoplasty to add height and projection and raise the tip and also shaved my chin bone as my chin was too pointy and strong. I know Korean ladies would die for a V line with a pointy strong chin! lol. Dr Caroline Mills did my dramatic bullhorn lip lift with lip eversion. Dr Nick Rhodes did my facelift. But if you get a facelift only do with postop steroids to stop any facial skin stretch from swelling. And for my body transformation, Dr David Floyd gets my praise for my breast fat transfer and lower body liposculpture. Hope this helps. x


Hi MsOrange, may I ask if its convenient for you to share total price you paid for your eyelid fat graft and revision DES with ptosis correction and full fat graft with top up pls? For the top up did you have to pay seperately, and how many months later did you do top up?

Do you recommend hairline lowering too?

Also for someone in late 30s - do you think smas face lift/elasticum lift or any lift is suitable?

Thank you!!


----------



## MissOrange

Everly07 said:


> Hi MsOrange, may I ask if its convenient for you to share total price you paid for your eyelid fat graft and revision DES with ptosis correction and full fat graft with top up pls? For the top up did you have to pay seperately, and how many months later did you do top up?
> 
> Do you recommend hairline lowering too?
> 
> Also for someone in late 30s - do you think smas face lift/elasticum lift or any lift is suitable?
> 
> Thank you!!


Hi @Everly07

I paid in low season 2016 so bear in mind prices may be higher in 2022. I paid 3.5 million won for the eyelid fat graft, revision des and ptosis correction. I had full face fg with DA in 2016 with top ups in 2016 and 2017. I paid them 3 million won (with free top up in 2 months) and then 1 million with hard bargaining in 2017 when they demanded 5 million on the day of the surgery. I then paid Mvp for full face fg in 2018 and 2020 with multiple procedure discounts for getting 6 threads at the same time in 2020. I think mvp's rate was 2-2.5 million for full face fg and 1 mill for top ups. In hindsight the swelling from the first full face fg set in motion the need for repeat fat grafts to reinflate a sagging face. My advice is only add fat to the forehead, temples and upper lids and do a lower facelift.

I have not researched hairline lowering so cannot comment on this. I guess the choices are hair transplant or hairline lowering or endoscopic forehead lift.


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## Everly07

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Everly07
> 
> I paid in low season 2016 so bear in mind prices may be higher in 2022. I paid 3.5 million won for the eyelid fat graft, revision des and ptosis correction. I had full face fg with DA in 2016 with top ups in 2016 and 2017. I paid them 3 million won (with free top up in 2 months) and then 1 million with hard bargaining in 2017 when they demanded 5 million on the day of the surgery. I then paid Mvp for full face fg in 2018 and 2020 with multiple procedure discounts for getting 6 threads at the same time in 2020. I think mvp's rate was 2-2.5 million for full face fg and 1 mill for top ups.


Thank you very much MissOrange!


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## MissOrange

Today's post is a warning against laser treatment. Never get laser on your face or body. If you have hypertrophic scars or keloids get intradermal steroid injections. If you want skin resurfacing, get a chemical peel. 

You have read earlier how I got a third degree periareolar laser burn and required reconstructive surgery by the Chelwest burns unit. A year ago the burns unit offered me CO2 laser treatment for an area of hypertrophic periareolar scar. I wish now I had said no. They lasered a test area between 3 and 6 pm and now I have a patch of crepey hyperpigmented skin extending outward into my breast area with a superficial dilated blue vein and a small area of skin tethering. 

The latter 2 may be signs of breast cancer so I shall be seen at breast clinic tomorrow. I suspect it is all laser damage but need to be safe and sure that it is not cancer triggered by the use of hrt earlier this year and then again when I tried evorel 25 patch and utrogestan pill and got intense left breast pain for hours until I removed the patch. When I learned my GP friend was on evorel 75 patch and utrogestan 100 pill and got cancer, I immediately stopped the patch and utrogestan. Let's hope I do not have breast cancer and have stopped hrt in time.


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## dannythedragon

Good luck MissOrange for tomorrow


MissOrange said:


> Today's post is a warning against laser treatment. Never get laser on your face or body. If you have hypertrophic scars or keloids get intradermal steroid injections. If you want skin resurfacing, get a chemical peel.
> 
> You have read earlier how I got a third degree periareolar laser burn and required reconstructive surgery by the Chelwest burns unit. A year ago the burns unit offered me CO2 laser treatment for an area of hypertrophic periareolar scar. I wish now I had said no. They lasered a test area between 3 and 6 pm and now I have a patch of crepey hyperpigmented skin extending outward into my breast area with a superficial dilated blue vein and a small area of skin tethering.
> 
> The latter 2 may be signs of breast cancer so I shall be seen at breast clinic tomorrow. I suspect it is all laser damage but need to be safe and sure that it is not cancer triggered by the use of hrt earlier this year and then again when I tried evorel 25 patch and utrogestan pill and got intense left breast pain for hours until I removed the patch. When I learned my GP friend was on evorel 75 patch and utrogestan 100 pill and got cancer, I immediately stopped the patch and utrogestan. Let's hope I do not have breast cancer and have stopped hrt in time.


----------



## MissCharmy

Good luck MissOrange, hope everything is well.


----------



## MissOrange

MissCharmy said:


> Good luck MissOrange, hope everything is well.


Aww thank you @MissCharmy. My appointment is this afternoon. I think the differential diagnosis is laser damage, breast fat necrosis or breast CA due to HRT. Hopefully the breast clinic can give me the answer. I had a mammogram in June which was normal so fingers crossed it is not that. In the meantime I need to cut some potatoes or apply glycolic acid on my sun spots (melasma) on my cheek.


----------



## MissOrange

Today I had my breast scan and it only showed scar tissue and a benign axillary lymph node and no oil cysts, no fat necrosis and no cancer. Yay! I have the all clear. No more hrt for me. The radiologist was looking into laser axillary hair removal. I told her no way! And shared my laser experience. Bearing in mind the ageing risk factor for breast cancer is 1 in 50 at age 50, I only have a 2% risk of breast cancer off hrt now. It was funny how she and the chaperone couldn't believe I was 56. Instead of share a long list of procedures, I just said it was my Korean genes. lol. They believed it.


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## MissCharmy

Congratulations for the all clear MissOrange


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## MissOrange

Sitting in the passenger seat at night and my face looks great entering month 9! Can I pass as a CalTech student in a fortnight eating lunch in their canteen? lol. I am packing a backpack!


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## Cosmetica2022

MissOrange said:


> Sitting in the passenger seat at night and my face looks great entering month 9! Can I pass as a CalTech student in a fortnight eating lunch in their canteen? lol. I am packing a backpack!
> 
> View attachment 5627558


You are so funny @MissOrange .
I am packing my back to join you… without homework and stressful exam though!


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## MissOrange

Cosmetica2022 said:


> You are so funny @MissOrange .
> I am packing my back to join you… without homework and stressful exam though!


Hi @Cosmetica2022, those were the days. Stress, homework, exams, grades, peer pressure, having no money, and back in my day there was no internet or netflix! lol. With the £ so weak against the $ I shall only be able to afford university canteen food and Denny’s! lol. 

For readers in their 20s and 30s, it is imperative you apply regular sunscreen to your face or just stay indoors and take daily vitamin D. By 50, your skin will reflect the cumulative sun damage from years spent outdoors in the sun and that may manifest as skin wrinkling as well as freckles and sun spots. I think having a clear complexion helps me look younger too. If you do have sun damage then look into chemical acid peels. I am anti lasers on the skin! I miss having TCA innovative chemical peels in my 40s as they were the best but they don’t make them anymore.


----------



## eimibilli

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Cosmetica2022, those were the days. Stress, homework, exams, grades, peer pressure, having no money, and back in my day there was no internet or netflix! lol. With the £ so weak against the $ I shall only be able to afford university canteen food and Denny’s! lol.
> 
> For readers in their 20s and 30s, it is imperative you apply regular sunscreen to your face or just stay indoors and take daily vitamin D. By 50, your skin will reflect the cumulative sun damage from years spent outdoors in the sun and that may manifest as skin wrinkling as well as freckles and sun spots. I think having a clear complexion helps me look younger too. If you do have sun damage then look into chemical acid peels. I am anti lasers on the skin! I miss having TCA innovative chemical peels in my 40s as they were the best but they don’t make them anymore.


 Hello Ms Orange! 
This is my first time writing to you but I've been following your comments and threads for a while now.  I am flying to SK next month to have my primary rhino done along with DES and under-eye fat removal. However, I've been having some fears lately and was hoping to be able to get some reassurance or guidance from you! You truly look beautiful & reading your threads has brought me some comfort to soothe my pre-op fears. However, here are some other things that I had on my mind that I could not find answers for so far. 

First off, I'm really really worried about feeling "pain" or the procedure of my rhinoplasty. I read on many forums like realself and quora that rhinoplasties should be done under GA especially when hump shaving is necessary (doctor quoted that for me online). Whereas the doctors in SK offer mostly "twilight anaesthesia". I am so worried that the pain from the bone shaving would wake me up, as cited in this link . The person here says that twilight anaesthesia and local is not enough to numb the pain from bone shaving and this is the part that scares me the most... 

Apart from this, do you have any advice on how to pick a surgeon or procedure to avoid revision rhinos?  there's so much contradicting info around, brokers etc etc so it's rly difficult to sus out the truth from lies... 

I hope it is alright to approach you like these for my worries! Looking forward to hear fromyou.


----------



## MissOrange

eimibilli said:


> Hello Ms Orange!
> This is my first time writing to you but I've been following your comments and threads for a while now.  I am flying to SK next month to have my primary rhino done along with DES and under-eye fat removal. However, I've been having some fears lately and was hoping to be able to get some reassurance or guidance from you! You truly look beautiful & reading your threads has brought me some comfort to soothe my pre-op fears. However, here are some other things that I had on my mind that I could not find answers for so far.
> 
> First off, I'm really really worried about feeling "pain" or the procedure of my rhinoplasty. I read on many forums like realself and quora that rhinoplasties should be done under GA especially when hump shaving is necessary (doctor quoted that for me online). Whereas the doctors in SK offer mostly "twilight anaesthesia". I am so worried that the pain from the bone shaving would wake me up, as cited in this link . The person here says that twilight anaesthesia and local is not enough to numb the pain from bone shaving and this is the part that scares me the most...
> 
> Apart from this, do you have any advice on how to pick a surgeon or procedure to avoid revision rhinos?  there's so much contradicting info around, brokers etc etc so it's rly difficult to sus out the truth from lies...
> 
> I hope it is alright to approach you like these for my worries! Looking forward to hear fromyou.


Hi @eimibilli,

Welcome to my thread! Thank you for reading my plastic surgery diary. You mention a key point about Korea and that is postop pain relief. They do not give anything stronger than tylenol as far as I am aware!!! This has stopped me from getting anything major done in Korea as I would need to bring stronger painkillers with me but opiates are not allowed into Korea! Bone shaving in a rhino is painful as you mentioned and I was given tramadol postop after my rhinoplasty in the UK and yes my operation in the UK was done under GA to protect my airway in case of excessive bleeding. The concern about getting a rhinoplasty in Korea is that twilight sedation is not as safe and we have heard about a death of a young male patient from rhinoplasty in Korea under twilight sedation who bled a lot from his rhino with blood pouring onto the operating room floor per cctv. In Korea rhinoplasty is often done in clinics and not hospitals so resuscitation equipment is limited.

As I have not had a rhinoplasty in Korea, I cannot recommend or comment on who to go to. But do NOT get rhino at April31 in Korea. I know 2 Americans and 1 British lady who were all botched at April31. One then got revision in USA, another went quiet and another sadly ended her life.


----------



## MissOrange

Today’s post is a recap. The ultimate 10 years younger+ makeover! It is one of my fav shows so no wonder I did my own! To think when I was an old 49 years of age and visiting Korea for the first time ever, I decided I needed to do research to turn back time on my face after seeing how Koreans looked super young and beautiful! This before and after truly reflects how much I have had done to my face in 7 years! Between 2016 and 2022, I have had…..drum roll….chin bone reduction (£3k), rib rhinoplasty (£7k), full face fat grafting x several times (£8k), 2 facelifts (£3.5k), revision upper lid bleph with lid fat graft (£3k), bullhorn lip lift (£2.5k), vermillion lip lift (£3k), dyed my hair and eyebrows ash blonde and tattooed my eyebrows (£300) for a total of approx £30,300 which is less than one facelift in Beverly Hills or NYC. And the funds came from my dad’s inheritance! The ultimate test will be when I meet my Korean Uncle as he last saw me looking like the face on the left at age 49 and on the 25th of this month, he will see me at age 56 looking like the face on the right! This thread has had over 420,000 views as I have given away my step by step guide for you all for free so that you too may turn back time on your face. If your face drops and becomes square with nasolabial folds and marionette lines, it may be time to get it lifted! You may be hiding a natural v line!


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## Fortunecat

MissOrange said:


> Today’s post is a recap. The ultimate 10 years younger+ makeover! It is one of my fav shows so no wonder I did my own! To think when I was an old 49 years of age and visiting Korea for the first time ever, I decided I needed to do research to turn back time on my face after seeing how Koreans looked super young and beautiful! This before and after truly reflects how much I have had done to my face in 7 years! Between 2016 and 2022, I have had…..drum roll….chin bone reduction (£3k), rib rhinoplasty (£7k), full face fat grafting x several times (£8k), 2 facelifts (£3.5k), revision upper lid bleph with lid fat graft (£3k), bullhorn lip lift (£2.5k), vermillion lip lift (£3k), dyed my hair and eyebrows ash blonde and tattooed my eyebrows (£300) for a total of approx £30,300 which is less than one facelift in Beverly Hills or NYC. And the funds came from my dad’s inheritance! The ultimate test will be when I meet my Korean Uncle as he last saw me looking like the face on the left at age 49 and on the 25th of this month, he will see me at age 56 looking like the face on the right! This thread has had over 420,000 views as I have given away my step by step guide for you all for free so that you too may turn back time on your face. If your face drops and becomes square with nasolabial folds and marionette lines, it may be time to get it lifted! You may be hiding a natural v line!
> 
> View attachment 5629705


When are you flying to Korea again?
Any procedures in mind when you are in Korea?


----------



## MissOrange

Fortunecat said:


> When are you flying to Korea again?
> Any procedures in mind when you are in Korea?


Hi @Fortunecat, the last time I was in Korea was Jan 2020 and I left Korea on the same day the first case of covid arrived to Incheon from China. I think I missed the passenger by a few hours. Would hate to think I then carried it to the UK! 

Actually this reminds me. I need to take my covid premeds before I fly 11 hours to LA. Cannot break my record of never testing pos for Covid! 

The next time I fly to Korea will be for my cousin's 60th which is a big thing in Korea. But as he is younger than I am I will turn 60 before him. At 60 I shall re-evaluate what I may need. At the moment my face is fine so I get a break from maintenance. It has been years since I had botox and fillers as fat grafts and a facelift with postop prednisolone has kept my face young and lifted. After all we pay for a surgical facelift so as not to keep paying for a non surgical facelift with botox and fillers.


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## SearchingVline

Asian people have this naturally lifted eyebrows, which is lovely.
@MissOrange you started with good skin structure, the V line of the chin is amazing now and you turned back time.
I have a question, do fat transfer on the lips worth it or is better to use fillers? I have trouble finding anyone in my area doing a lip fat transfer, they simply prefer fillers and say fat transfer on lips doesn't last. And I don't know anyone doing fat filler on lips, is just not that popular procedure here.


----------



## MissOrange

SearchingVline said:


> Asian people have this naturally lifted eyebrows, which is lovely.
> @MissOrange you started with good skin structure, the V line of the chin is amazing now and you turned back time.
> I have a question, do fat transfer on the lips worth it or is better to use fillers? I have trouble finding anyone in my area doing a lip fat transfer, they simply prefer fillers and say fat transfer on lips doesn't last. And I don't know anyone doing fat filler on lips, is just not that popular procedure here.


Hi @SearchingVline, as we move the lips a lot, fat transfer will not last. Fillers in the lip only last 6-8 weeks. You can try applying carmex lip balm daily which helps plump lips and for a permanent solution explore bullhorn lip lift with lip eversion which has given me full lips for 5 years and counting.


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## SearchingVline

Hi, lip lift not working for me, my upper lip is already naturally too lifted and mouth is barely closing, and that's actually the main problem + I want more volume in the upper lip. I tried lip repositioning (is a surgery that reposition tissue from inside the mouth) but no success. I'm kind of limited with permanent options, you are right, fat transfer on lips won't last, otherwise would be a popular procedure in the beauty industry.


----------



## kkeiii

MissOrange said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.
> 
> 1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!
> 
> 2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.
> 
> 3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.
> 
> 4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.
> 
> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.
> 
> Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!


Amazing!


----------



## babykyoong

@MissOrange  love your fat graft results! Is weight lifting or exercising okay after fat grafting and losing around 2-3 kilograms weight ? I am really self conscious about my under eyes and am afraid to get fat grafted under my eyes.. I'm too scared if I develop lumps after?


----------



## MissOrange

babykyoong said:


> @MissOrange  love your fat graft results! Is weight lifting or exercising okay after fat grafting and losing around 2-3 kilograms weight ? I am really self conscious about my under eyes and am afraid to get fat grafted under my eyes.. I'm too scared if I develop lumps after?


Hi @babykyoong, for the best results the fat graft should be fed fat and protein and weight should be maintained at or above the surgery weight. If you lose weight after fat graft, then the grafted fat cells have little chance of surviving. Once the fat graft is stable at 4 months, then you may lose a little weight and exercise. Lumps are doctor dependent.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is a b&a at age 25 graduating from med school vs 56 happily retired and happy with my face. In my 20s I wanted to become a plastic surgeon to help ladies become beautiful. We have all witnessed genetically beautiful students enjoy a life of popularity, dating with ease, going on to marry tall and handsome men, getting picked for jobs easily and I wished I could transform and that all ladies could transform if they wished. We have all wished to be that most beautiful girl on campus...

31 years later I guess I am achieving the same goal but by different means, ie by sharing my journey into understanding how the face ages and how to create a more beautiful face using myself as a guinea pig, sourcing the best yet affordable board certified plastic surgeons in the world. Looking back I can see that my 25 yo face divided into thirds has a too short philtrum and too big chin. I did not have the ideal 1:2 ratio. Now my 56 yo face has the ideal thirds ratio and 1:2 ratio of philtrum to chin, bigger eyes with Dr Seo and a more harmonious looking face.

What amazes me is my lower lip is full and I never had surgery there but just applied carmex lip balm every day for decades! I stopped using lip fillers in my 40s. Maybe that is why models live by vaseline on their lips. It achieves the same thing as carmex and gives fuller lips?!

At 25 I struggled to keep my weight around 99 lbs. At 56 I am maintaining a weight of 95-96 lbs with ease! At 25 I lived on cheetos, lays, milk duds, Captain Crunch cereal, Dunkin donuts, American pizza, tatter tots, capri sun (never drank water), Chinese takeaways, etc. At 56 I have no crisps or chocolates at home, stopped ordering Domino's pizza, rarely eat a Chinese takeaway and live on my husband's healthy home cooked meals and drink water with every meal. I noticed that my weight goes up after I order and eat a just eats food delivery and goes down on days I do not eat takeaways. The other thing I noticed was when I was 25 I lived in a bungalow or a flat in the US so rarely climbed stairs and never did housework and now I live in a house with stairs and do daily housework as exercise.


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## Pawleys1

You are beautiful. If I could just go back to how I looked before surgery I could then look in the mirror and recognize the person I see. It’s so sad.


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## babykyoong

Pawleys1 said:


> You are beautiful. If I could just go back to how I looked before surgery I could then look in the mirror and recognize the person I see. It’s so sad.


Why? You don't like your surgery results ?


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## MissOrange

Pawleys1 said:


> You are beautiful. If I could just go back to how I looked before surgery I could then look in the mirror and recognize the person I see. It’s so sad.


Thanks @Pawleys1. What has happened to you? Have you changed too much? Do you have identity crisis issues? It takes time to adjust and I do miss my long dark hair look but now my hair won’t grow long anymore post menopause.


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## MissOrange

Today's post is a trip back to see when I started to lose my looks, ie when did the ravages of time set in or aging begin. And it looks like they began when I turned 25! No wonder Leonardo di Caprio has a rep for only dating ladies under 25! In decades gone by women wed young, some as early as 19 or 21. Nowadays with women putting off marriage for their career they may be pushing themselves out of the marriage market or making the odds extremely difficult.

Here are 2 collages. The first one is of me growing up up to age 16. Looks like my face looked best at a weight of 99 lbs and with long hair as a 16 yo in front of an artificial Xmas tree. You'd think wow a pretty Korean kid. She will grow up beautiful but beauty is fleeting...

The second collage is at ages 25, 33, and in my late 40s. Aging has accelerated due to immense work hours and work stresses. One would think it would be impossible to get back the fresh youthful face of a 16-24 yo but I have achieved it and so can you all! When I look back at my photos I look more like my 16 yo face now and do not recognise my old faces. lol. Next week my Uncle who hasn't seen me since the bottom right photo will see my new and improved face! I wonder what the US immigration officer will think? Thank goodness I changed my passport photo to one at least with blonde hair. lol


----------



## MissOrange

And here is one to demonstrate how at 56 I look closer to my 16 yo face than my 49 yo face. By 49, my aging face had lost oestrogen, fat and bone and needed 7 cms of loose skin excised (3.5 cms from each side). Who would have thought my stubborn thigh fat reserves would some day save my face and breasts! And a piece of my rib cartilage my nose! Autologous grafts are superior to silicone and irradiated cadaver any day!


----------



## MissOrange

Yay in sunny California I can finally don a bikini! Here is my figure over 2 years post breast FT with lipo to the flanks, 360 thighs and inner knees. My abs look great from eating more meat, cutting out dairy, and doing stairs at home. Last abdo lipo was 2 decades ago. I seem to have toned up as I have no loose tummy skin! If you want to go down the lipo route, remember traditional lipo only and not Vaser!


----------



## StarsInSky

MissOrange said:


> Hi @eimibilli,
> 
> Welcome to my thread! Thank you for reading my plastic surgery diary. You mention a key point about Korea and that is postop pain relief. They do not give anything stronger than tylenol as far as I am aware!!! This has stopped me from getting anything major done in Korea as I would need to bring stronger painkillers with me but opiates are not allowed into Korea! Bone shaving in a rhino is painful as you mentioned and I was given tramadol postop after my rhinoplasty in the UK and yes my operation in the UK was done under GA to protect my airway in case of excessive bleeding. The concern about getting a rhinoplasty in Korea is that twilight sedation is not as safe and we have heard about a death of a young male patient from rhinoplasty in Korea under twilight sedation who bled a lot from his rhino with blood pouring onto the operating room floor per cctv. In Korea rhinoplasty is often done in clinics and not hospitals so resuscitation equipment is limited.
> 
> As I have not had a rhinoplasty in Korea, I cannot recommend or comment on who to go to. But do NOT get rhino at April31 in Korea. I know 2 Americans and 1 British lady who were all botched at April31. One then got revision in USA, another went quiet and another sadly ended her life.


That's horrible about April31. I don't want to have nose surgery. But maybe Korean surgeons generally are not so good or skilled at doing nose surgery on caucasians. Nose surgery on an Asian nose versus a Caucasian/other type of nose are not really the same thing. But April31 might still be a very bad clinic.


----------



## StarsInSky

I think you look good both before and after the facelift btw.


----------



## MissOrange

I have decided I need to sort out my areolas with tattooing (had periareolar mastopexy x 2 in 2019) to make them perfectly circular. I have booked THE Tracie Giles, owner of the Knightsbridge clinic for November 28 for one areola for £295. I shall see how it goes and if fab then can pay for the other but the right one needs the most attention with a white flat scar line around the areola and the normal periareolar pigmented area needing a more even circular border. I have no raised hypertrophic scars now thanks to steroid injections but need an expert tattooist opinion as to how to clean up the white scar lines and the test area of CO2 laser that left the test area hyperpigmented. In other words a touch up as my breast ultrasound and mammograms are normal but on exam I was told I had a lot of scars.

I used this clinic before for my eyebrow tattoos which are still pigmented years later so I know I am not allergic to the tattoo ink.


----------



## sanarae

MissOrange said:


> Yay in sunny California I can finally don a bikini! Here is my figure over 2 years post breast FT with lipo to the flanks, 360 thighs and inner knees. My abs look great from eating more meat, cutting out dairy, and doing stairs at home. Last abdo lipo was 2 decades ago. I seem to have toned up as I have no loose tummy skin! If you want to go down the lipo route, remember traditional lipo only and not Vaser!
> 
> View attachment 5640612


you look amazing and your bikini is v chic! but honestly? what I love most about your journey is your increased confidence, really enjoying your beauty and experimenting with makeup, dyed hair, new styles and the like. Having fun! With an attitude like that you could conquer the world! thanks for always being generous and honest in sharing the pros and cons of aesthetic procedures.


----------



## MissOrange

sanarae said:


> you look amazing and your bikini is v chic! but honestly? what I love most about your journey is your increased confidence, really enjoying your beauty and experimenting with makeup, dyed hair, new styles and the like. Having fun! With an attitude like that you could conquer the world! thanks for always being generous and honest in sharing the pros and cons of aesthetic procedures.


Thank yoi for your kind words @sanarae. Pity I can’t delete that bikini photo! Just realised all my pregnancy stretch marks are on display! lol.


----------



## dor3mi

Hi Ms Orange,

Thanks for all your knowledge! I'm looking to get FT to breast. May I ask where you got it done? TY!


----------



## MissOrange

dor3mi said:


> Hi Ms Orange,
> 
> Thanks for all your knowledge! I'm looking to get FT to breast. May I ask where you got it done? TY!


Hi @dor3mi I had mine done by Dr David Floyd at the Wellington Hospital in London.


----------



## justbeingmejose

@MissOrange Thank you for giving us all the great information. I will be in Seoul next week. I am 41, Caucasian from New York. I need a revision facelift because the scars around my ears are terrible, lower bleph, forehead lift, and maybe fat grafting. Currently I have consultations at View, Banobagi, ID, and Braun. Please let me know what you think of these clinics and which clinic you would go to if you were me. Thank you!


----------



## MissOrange

justbeingmejose said:


> @MissOrange Thank you for giving us all the great information. I will be in Seoul next week. I am 41, Caucasian from New York. I need a revision facelift because the scars around my ears are terrible, lower bleph, forehead lift, and maybe fat grafting. Currently I have consultations at View, Banobagi, ID, and Braun. Please let me know what you think of these clinics and which clinic you would go to if you were me. Thank you!


Hi @justbeingmejose, I have only consulted at View for a facelift. In Korea pricing is by negotiation but if you go too low you risk a ghost or shadow doctor. Personally I prefer going to a smaller clinic where I know I will be operated on by the surgeon of my choice. But of the 4 you listed, I would go with View as I know one young Caucasian male who had surgery there and looked fab.


----------



## justbeingmejose

MissOrange said:


> Here are the b&a’s from the youtube interview of Dream patients. I like how they made videos so you can see their animated after faces in action and how the 55 year old is one year out and it is holding. She had fat graft too. Sounds like she had it under general anaesthesia as she says her throat hurt from the tube. I still look younger than the 55 year old as she did not get fat graft to her upper eyelid and her lips are still thin, a sign of age. Sounds like we have another contender for facelifts in Korea…Dr Yoo At Dream, to join 2 other facelift clinics in Korea, ASPS and Bio Clinic.
> 
> 
> -------------
> 
> 
> MissOrange said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the b&a’s from the youtube interview of Dream patients. I like how they made videos so you can see their animated after faces in action and how the 55 year old is one year out and it is holding. She had fat graft too. Sounds like she had it under general anaesthesia as she says her throat hurt from the tube. I still look younger than the 55 year old as she did not get fat graft to her upper eyelid and her lips are still thin, a sign of age. Sounds like we have another contender for facelifts in Korea…Dr Yoo At Dream, to join 2 other facelift clinics in Korea, ASPS and Bio Clinic.
> 
> View attachment 5445045
> 
> 
> View attachment 5445046
> 
> 
> View attachment 5445047
> 
> 
> 
> How hard is it to get a con
Click to expand...




Fraulein said:


> Hi everyone
> This feed has been very informative and I appreciate everyone providing their input.   I'm currently shopping for surgeons to do my brow/face and neck lift.   i'm Korean American, 54 and have had quite a few surgeries and revisions. It is really important for me to do my due diligence and pick the right surgeon.
> 
> Prices with the best surgeons in California have become astronomical since the pandemic.  The demand skyrocketed and doctors have been busy.  So, I'm looking outside of California which is crazy since LA is PS capital next to Seoul.
> 
> I did visit Dr. Kao in Los Angeles in October 2021 and he charged me $350 for the consultation (my friend said his consultation is now $1000). and his quote for the ponytail lift and neck lift was ....$200,000 for what he claims will be a 10 hour surgery.   Yep.  I had a consult with him in 2018 and he quoted me $46,000 then so his prices have really escalated during the pandemic.  Dr. Kao is an artist and he knows it.  If I had $200K to spend on this - he would be my first choice.
> 
> So, I visited Dr. Peter Lee at Wave and that was a $500 consultation fee that you can use for othere services if you don't get surgery with him OR it can be reallocated to surgery fee if you do have surgery with him.  He was a bit flat and frankly looked too drained and tired.  His quote was $35K for the brow, face and neck lift and he said I didn't have enough fat to do a fat grafting and that he will always split the procedures into two.  He suggested sculptura or fat grafting six months after the surgery and that cost $6K.  I was told that if I pay for the $35K surgical fee he would do the fat/sculptura for free.
> 
> I have since found Gary Linkov - love this man!  I  have a consultation scheduled with him in June.  Cost is $300.  His fees are  the deep plane face lift; $12,000 + $4k-$6k for anesthesia and operating room fees. The lip lift procedure is $7,000, and the neck lift:$12,000 + $4k-$6k for OR and anesthesia.
> 
> I may also want a lip lift and that is what Dr. Linkov specializes in.  I was told he performs 3 - 4 deep plane face/neck lifts per month and at least 4+ lip lifts per week.  His next surgery availability is in Nov of this year.
> 
> He gives a very nice explanation of the different kinds of facelifts in this video.
> 
> Also, he looks at the changes in celebrity faces and tells you what he thinks they did or didn't do - here's his opinion on Kelly Osbourne:
> 
> I'm currently communicating with Dr. Dongman Park (Thank you Miss Orange) at Bio and getting my quotes.  My cousin did get an original quote for $7K - I do think they can legally gouge foreigners so we'll see.
> 
> I reached out to Dirk Kremer's office -
> 
> Neck lift £9,200
> Face lift £11,250
> Face and neck lift £15,800 (includes overnight stay)
> Virtual consultation cost £75/- and are conducted via WhatsApp video and zoom. In-person consultation are £150/- and conducted at our office in Harley Street.
> 
> My biggest concern is my brow - the surgeon in Korea cut too much skin from my eyes so they sag a bit and he said i needed a brow lift.  Because I've had multliple revisions on my eyes I cannot have anyone touch them - just have to lift the brow.  I wish I could do a temporal lift to have that cat eye look but that is usually not really recommended.
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to share my research.
> 
> Fraulein



Hello! How hard is it to get a consultation and schedule a surgery with Dr. Dongman Park. they made me post a picture to post.


MissOrange said:


> Hi @justbeingmejose, I have only consulted at View for a facelift. In Korea pricing is by negotiation but if you go too low you risk a ghost or shadow doctor. Personally I prefer going to a smaller clinic where I know I will be operated on by the surgeon of my choice. But of the 4 you listed, I would go with View as I know one young Caucasian male who had surgery there and looked fab.


Thank you! You’re so generous with your advice. After researching this thread, I think I would like to go with Dr. Dongman Park. I need a FL revision.Do you foresee difficulty with getting a consultation on such short notice? I’ll be flying from NYC on Wed.


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## shruthi

justbeingmejose said:


> @MissOrange Thank you for giving us all the great information. I will be in Seoul next week. I am 41, Caucasian from New York. I need a revision facelift because the scars around my ears are terrible, lower bleph, forehead lift, and maybe fat grafting. Currently I have consultations at View, Banobagi, ID, and Braun. Please let me know what you think of these clinics and which clinic you would go to if you were me. Thank you!


I have been consulting with Vlif, along with JW, Braun, and View. VLIF seems to be specialized only in the procedures related to Facelift. You may consider consulting them as well. Best wishes  Keep us posted.


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## MissOrange

justbeingmejose said:


> Hello! How hard is it to get a consultation and schedule a surgery with Dr. Dongman Park. they made me post a picture to post.
> 
> Thank you! You’re so generous with your advice. After researching this thread, I think I would like to go with Dr. Dongman Park. I need a FL revision.Do you foresee difficulty with getting a consultation on such short notice? I’ll be flying from NYC on Wed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5655649
> View attachment 5655645
> View attachment 5655653


Good luck @justbeingmejose! Let bio clinic know asap you are flying for a consult. Idk his schedule so can't say if they can fit you in for surgery on this trip. I booked my surgeries at mvp before I flew out. Korean surgeons are amazing with scars. Part of being a plastic surgeon there is fine suturing leaving almost invisible scars. I would call mvp and kakao to reach them to schedule my op. You could try all the comms ports to reach Bio.


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## MissOrange

My home cam snapped a 14 yo girl in my kitchen! Gosh I look super young at 94.8 lbs with shorter hair (I cut my own), no makeup and no glasses! The arm lipo  I had a few years ago really worked! No more postmenopause batwings! The facial fat graft really makes one have a baby face!

I am worried no 30-40 yo will date me when my older OH dies of old age as I will look like a teenager! He had his 4th jab (2nd pfizer) before the 'Died Suddenly' whistleblowing film came out on rumble. In 2 days it has racked up over 4 million views!

Now I worry my married daughter may get miscarriages at 20-26 weeks when she gets pregnant. I have 11.5 months to go until it is 2Y and I am in the clear from the jab. I won't have any more and am ignoring the nhs texts and email reminders to have my 4th.

I have only recently recovered from presumed covid from the trip to LA (must have caught it on the airplane or airport on the way back). It took 5 days of hcq, zinc and doxycycline, then 3 days of azithromycin and prednisolone and now 3 days of antihistamines as from day 8 the body has an allergic reaction to the spike proteins! I can now exercise without desaturating. I learned about antihistamines from Dr Shankara Chetty who saved 7000 of his patients in S Africa with steroids and antihistamines from day 8.


----------



## dawnmonarch

MissOrange said:


> I thought I would start a new thread as I seem to have hijacked smitten kitten's thread on MVP to share my journey. I summarised my plastic surgery journey on www.drunacoales.blogspot.co.uk. Here is a short summary of my tips.
> 
> 1. As you age, the nose tip droops. Bear this in mind when you get your primary rhinoplasty as it may not be your last. My tip drooped after 16 years and needed revision. In SK they prefer ultra soft silicone for the nose as it is easier to fit. Take care as some people react to foreign material more than others and you may need to remove or exchange on average every 10 years as with most body artificial implants. Ear or rib cartilage is autologous and less likely to cause a reaction. Get several quotes on kakao from various clinics. One clinic JW may start at 13 million for rib rhino revision but then drops to 11 million if they know you are active on social media but then may drop even further to 8 million after a consultation with the plastic surgeon and may even drop to 7.4 if you look like you are going elsewhere as shared by another KK friend. This is something foreigners are not used to...negotiating. Or clinics like GNG or MVP will start with a fair price like 4.5 million at GNG for rhino or 3 million special at MVP. MVP is noted for trying to give foreigners as close to local prices as they can. There are 2 types of noses...long nose and Barbie nose. Make sure you bring an A4 of a favourite actress or model or use the facetouchup app to see which suits your face. Bear in mind the nose and ears continue to grow with aging!
> 
> 2. In your 40s, you start to lose fat from your face which then makes your face look bony. The most resistant fat is in your cheeks which then makes your face look unbalanced, ie chipmunk cheeks on a bony skeleton face. The answer is not cheek liposuction or buccal fat removal but full face fat graft to rejuvenate and replace all the facial fat lost with ageing. Be patient as fat grafting may need 3 attempts to stay and be prepared to gain a few lbs to help the fat graft thrive.
> 
> 3. Eyelid sulcus hollows with ageing. Again fat grafting to the lids rejuvenates. You can combine this with an incision des or blepharoplasty. Again bear in mind that skin sags so actually a bigger crease buys you more time before it sags. Your first des is never your last when battling gravity.
> 
> 4. Philtrum sags with ageing. You may have seen smiles with no upper teeth show. This is because the philtrum has sagged from 11 mms to 20 mms and basically covers your upper teeth show even at rest. Try a bullhorn lip lift and do not ask the plastic surgeon to cut into the nasal sill or it may distort the nostrils. The only downside is a scar but if you wear makeup, you can hide as it takes a year for the scar to be invisible.
> 
> 5. SMAS facelift. I have seen this in girls as young as 30. As it is costly and with ageing all skin sags, I would suggest trying to put this off as long as possible by using other anti ageing procedures. Bear in mind any bone surgery may accelerate skin sagging and you may end up requiring an earlier SMAS facelift.
> 
> Hope this helps ladies especially from 40+. I turn 51 shortly and my next milestone hurdle will be conquering ageing at 60!


Very informative and helpful. I may need this guide for future uses. Thank you so much! You do look very young btw


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## beautifullife1712

Dear @MissOrange, can you advise how to reach Dr. Seo of Manchimpyo to have a consult with him?
In the web, there's only kakao in korean which I cannot understand. Do you possible to have his clinic's translator contact maybe?
Thanks before.


----------



## Transformation2021

Risa Hirako 51 year old model is stunning the world with her youthful looks


----------



## Mariellabella

Cindy Jackson
					

Official site. The most trusted name in anti-ageing & aesthetics. Fresh, naturally beautiful results. Cindy Jackson is living proof of her unique expertise.




					cindyjackson.com
				




She also managed to go from ugly duckling to truly beautiful, she is in her 60ies now


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## MissOrange

beautifullife1712 said:


> Dear @MissOrange, can you advise how to reach Dr. Seo of Manchimpyo to have a consult with him?
> In the web, there's only kakao in korean which I cannot understand. Do you possible to have his clinic's translator contact maybe?
> Thanks before.


Hi @beautifullife1712, have you tried whatsapp? This is his website with contact details. http://dotps.co.kr/en/


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## beautifullife1712

@MissOrange  The whatsapp has no link and no number... hope you can help me with a reachable link ?


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## MoshiMoshiKonchiwa

MissOrange said:


> Today's post is a b&a at age 25 graduating from med school vs 56 happily retired and happy with my face. In my 20s I wanted to become a plastic surgeon to help ladies become beautiful. We have all witnessed genetically beautiful students enjoy a life of popularity, dating with ease, going on to marry tall and handsome men, getting picked for jobs easily and I wished I could transform and that all ladies could transform if they wished. We have all wished to be that most beautiful girl on campus...
> 
> 31 years later I guess I am achieving the same goal but by different means, ie by sharing my journey into understanding how the face ages and how to create a more beautiful face using myself as a guinea pig, sourcing the best yet affordable board certified plastic surgeons in the world. Looking back I can see that my 25 yo face divided into thirds has a too short philtrum and too big chin. I did not have the ideal 1:2 ratio. Now my 56 yo face has the ideal thirds ratio and 1:2 ratio of philtrum to chin, bigger eyes with Dr Seo and a more harmonious looking face.
> 
> What amazes me is my lower lip is full and I never had surgery there but just applied carmex lip balm every day for decades! I stopped using lip fillers in my 40s. Maybe that is why models live by vaseline on their lips. It achieves the same thing as carmex and gives fuller lips?!
> 
> At 25 I struggled to keep my weight around 99 lbs. At 56 I am maintaining a weight of 95-96 lbs with ease! At 25 I lived on cheetos, lays, milk duds, Captain Crunch cereal, Dunkin donuts, American pizza, tatter tots, capri sun (never drank water), Chinese takeaways, etc. At 56 I have no crisps or chocolates at home, stopped ordering Domino's pizza, rarely eat a Chinese takeaway and live on my husband's healthy home cooked meals and drink water with every meal. I noticed that my weight goes up after I order and eat a just eats food delivery and goes down on days I do not eat takeaways. The other thing I noticed was when I was 25 I lived in a bungalow or a flat in the US so rarely climbed stairs and never did housework and now I live in a house with stairs and do daily housework as exercise.
> 
> View attachment 5631420


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## MoshiMoshiKonchiwa

Wow - Hi @MissOrange, thank you for sharing. You look incredible. Both before and after. I just joined this forum and have enjoyed learning about your story.


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## MissOrange

Try posting a comment on his instagram and then direct messaging on instagram. 


beautifullife1712 said:


> @MissOrange  The whatsapp has no link and no number... hope you can help me with a reachable link ?


----------



## MissOrange

I am over 11 months post smas facelift and all is holding nicely at age 56.5 years of age. I weigh 95.2 lbs. Here is today's selfie at arm's length which seems to be the most accurate for android selfies. As my right cheekbone is bigger than my left cheekbone, I worked out I look better from my left profile!

I had a look at 70 yo Sharon Osbourne who has had 5 facelifts and her eyes are tiny! This may be a side effect of too many facelifts?


----------



## Teina

Where did you do the arm lipo? I'd love to get rid of mine!


----------



## MissOrange

Teina said:


> Where did you do the arm lipo? I'd love to get rid of mine!


Hi @Teina,

I took the Eurostar to Belgium and had my arms lipo’d by Dr Bert Oelbrandt. Had the consult in London for £40 and the op for €1500. The key to a good result is to wear arm compression bandages and/or garment for a month to prevent loose skin and expedite deswelling. https://www.singelberg-kliniek.be/en/team/dr-bert-oelbrandt/


----------



## justbeingmejose

MissOrange said:


> Good luck @justbeingmejose! Let bio clinic know asap you are flying for a consult. Idk his schedule so can't say if they can fit you in for surgery on this trip. I booked my surgeries at mvp before I flew out. Korean surgeons are amazing with scars. Part of being a plastic surgeon there is fine suturing leaving almost invisible scars. I would call mvp and kakao to reach them to schedule my op. You could try all the comms ports to reach Bio.


34K for FL revision with Dr. Dongman Park. Ummmm, no sir.


----------



## derpbunnie

@MissOrange you probably don't remember me but we were in the same kakao group chat for people who were going to Korea in 2020! I had been talking with you about fat grafting back then after mine went badly. I'm curious to know how your fat grafts are now and if you'd still recommend MVP? I'm looking to get mine fixed.

Your smas facelift looks amazing, by the way! I've been following you on Instagram and just want to say I love all your updates.


----------



## MissOrange

derpbunnie said:


> @MissOrange you probably don't remember me but we were in the same kakao group chat for people who were going to Korea in 2020! I had been talking with you about fat grafting back then after mine went badly. I'm curious to know how your fat grafts are now and if you'd still recommend MVP? I'm looking to get mine fixed.
> 
> Your smas facelift looks amazing, by the way! I've been following you on Instagram and just want to say I love all your updates.


Hi @derpbunnie, please send me an IG message to remind me. I am now done with facial fat grafts and am happy with the fat content. I would say in hindsight, I needed prednisolone tablets for a week postop to prevent the skin stretching from swelling. But as I did not know this, each time the face swelled after full face fat grafting, the face then deswelled, looked great for a month but continued to deflate and then sagged big time! Partly my fault as I did not know I needed to feed the fat for 4 months postop. This made me desperate to fly back to Korea 2 months later to get a top up. But yet again it inflated then deflated and I got into a never ending cycle of flying back to Korea, getting more fat put in, swelling, deswelling, losing the fat and sagging more and more in my lower face.

What I should have done is take a week of prednisolone postop so the face did not swell up like a balloon and I should have eaten a lot of protein and fat for 4 months to keep the fat grafted cells alive. I do not think Korean surgeons prescribe prednisolone. If you have 3 full face fat grafts, you may end up needing a lower facelift like I got. I literally lost track of how many face fat grafts I had including top ups but would guess 5?! It ultimately stretched my lower face skin by a whopping 7 cms!!! Best to stop after 2 or 3 facial fat transfers and get a lower facelift or take postop pred so the skin does not stretch and no facelift is then required later.

Dr Seo, who did my better facial fat grafts, has left MVP and is now at his own clinic Machimpyo, same area Apgujeong. From what I hear, it is difficult for foreigners to get in touch. Most of his patients are locals and his bread and butter are upper blepharoplasties.


----------



## MissOrange

justbeingmejose said:


> 34K for FL revision with Dr. Dongman Park. Ummmm, no sir.


Hi @justbeingmejose, wow!!!! OMG! $34,000! Okay well that rules out Dr Park forever! No point in following him now on IG. lol. Only rich Chinese tourists can afford his inflated prices or local Koreans who pay a fraction. Let’s hope my £3495 smas plication facelift with Dr Nick Rhodes lasts 10 years! I would say everyone get a free virtual consult or face to face consult and fly to York, UK, for his £4k facelift or £9k face and neck lift but make sure you source postop prednisolone steroids. I have not needed any botox or fillers, which is the ultimate test to see if the facelift was successful! And don’t believe lines that we continue to age so the facelift will not last! It should last at least a decade in my opinion if done right without significant postop swelling. I totally object to paying towards a plastic surgeon’s ferrari or Rolls Royce or Beverly Hills mansion!

What did View and Banobagi quote you? I consulted at View, Girin and Namu for a facelift in Jan 2020.


----------



## Teina

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Teina,
> 
> I took the Eurostar to Belgium and had my arms lipo’d by Dr Bert Oelbrandt. Had the consult in London for £40 and the op for €1500. The key to a good result is to wear arm compression bandages and/or garment for a month to prevent loose skin and expedite deswelling. https://www.singelberg-kliniek.be/en/team/dr-bert-oelbrandt/


Thank you, I really wanna do thigh and arm lifts when my weight becomes stable.


----------



## MissOrange

Here is a closeup of the scars after smas facelift and then retightening. Nick has achieved invisible scars by putting zero tension on the skin when he closes. At 11 months out, this is a brilliant result. Even my bullhorn lip lift needed kenalog steroid injection to flatten my scar at a year postop but Nick's facelift work is amazing and no steroid injections required. My periareolar scars needed umpteen steroid injections to flatten the scars as the periareolar mastopexy puts enormous skin tension on the periareolar sutures to hold up the breasts! Never ever get this procedure. Always go for the full lollipop or anchor breast lift. No one ever sees my chest now as it is extremely obvious with the uneven pigment and spillage of pigment that my areolas look like they have been damaged. This makes me appreciate so much more the surgeon who left me with zero scars, ie Dr Nick Rhodes of Coppergate Clinic in York, UK, a 13 minute stroll through the historic city centre from York rail station. Parts of York were used to film Harry Potter! The diagonal creases on my earlobes are Frank’s sign, which suggests coronary artery atherosclerosis but I chalk that up to having high cholesterol and high lipoprotein A. It just means that in my 70s I may get a stroke like my father, grandmother and aunts unless I can maintain a dairy free and protein low diet. The word lipo means fat and protein means protein! Simples! lol.

Now a word of advice, if after your facelift your surgeon uses excuses like aging continues, you need to still use fillers, then this may suggest poor work by the surgeon or what happens when you don’t take postop steroids to keep swelling and skin stretch to a minimal.

I have seen ladies post facelift complain of drop and urged to use dermal fillers by friends instead of being persistent to get free retightening and this time use postop steroids. The hallmark of a great facelift is that you never need to go back to dermal fillers, a non surgical facelift. I have also seen ladies post lip lift go back to thin upper lips after deswelling. This means the lip lift was too conservative. Remember a young lady’s philtrum should be 11-13 mms in length. If the surgeon does not cut enough skin away, the upper lip may not evert and stay full. I am almost 6 years post bullhorn lip lift after a whopping 9 mms of skin or almost 2 cms was cut away and my upper lip is still very full. In my 40s I required upper lip restylane fillers every 2 months but in my 50s I needed nil. The bullhorn pays for itself.


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## Teina

Wow, he did a great job!


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## Teina

MissOrange, what do you think about chin implants? i'd like to get a V-shape face but without the v-line surgery. I'm afraid that my skin wont be tight enough to snap back.


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## MissOrange

Teina said:


> MissOrange, what do you think about chin implants? i'd like to get a V-shape face but without the v-line surgery. I'm afraid that my skin wont be tight enough to snap back.


Hi @Teina, interestingly facelifts bulk up the midface/cheeks and may then make the chin look smaller as the skin is pulled up. If the face is pulled tight across the cheeks, it can even make the eyes look smaller. Some surgeons recommend a chin implant if the face looks too round after a facelift. A long face may end up rounder and it depends on whether the patient is okay with this. Even with v line surgery, some Korean surgeons want to create a sharp pointy chin by moving bone to the chin and fixing it there. I think it depends on what your aesthetics are. In Japan a small chin is desirable. In Korea, a pointy chin with V line jaw is desirable. In the US a square jaw is more desirable. I think my aesthetic is more towards the Japanese look.

The pro is a pointy V line chin if done well. But the cons with a chin implant is if a too big implant is placed, it creates a masculine, strong chin and if removed or exchanged there is still loose skin from the stretch. Or the chin implant may become infected or rejected as it is a foreign body and this can happen in the short term or long term. Have you tried fillers to see if you like a bigger pointy chin? I would say try fillers to achieve the V line look first before you spend $1000s on a chin implant. Once you put an implant in, you start the cycle of replacements every 2-5 years on average and rarely every 10 years. Prices of surgery escalate each year so one has to factor this in whenever one gets any foreign body implant as even removal costs $$$$. I have made it a point now never to get a foreign body implant after spending a fortune on implants with all its complications, replacements, removals and fixing sagging skin.


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## derpbunnie

MissOrange said:


> Hi @derpbunnie, please send me an IG message to remind me. I am now done with facial fat grafts and am happy with the fat content. I would say in hindsight, I needed prednisolone tablets for a week postop to prevent the skin stretching from swelling. But as I did not know this, each time the face swelled after full face fat grafting, the face then deswelled, looked great for a month but continued to deflate and then sagged big time! Partly my fault as I did not know I needed to feed the fat for 4 months postop. This made me desperate to fly back to Korea 2 months later to get a top up. But yet again it inflated then deflated and I got into a never ending cycle of flying back to Korea, getting more fat put in, swelling, deswelling, losing the fat and sagging more and more in my lower face.
> 
> What I should have done is take a week of prednisolone postop so the face did not swell up like a balloon and I should have eaten a lot of protein and fat for 4 months to keep the fat grafted cells alive. I do not think Korean surgeons prescribe prednisolone. If you have 3 full face fat grafts, you may end up needing a lower facelift like I got. I literally lost track of how many face fat grafts I had including top ups but would guess 5?! It ultimately stretched my lower face skin by a whopping 7 cms!!! Best to stop after 2 or 3 facial fat transfers and get a lower facelift or take postop pred so the skin does not stretch and no facelift is then required later.
> 
> Dr Seo, who did my better facial fat grafts, has left MVP and is now at his own clinic Machimpyo, same area Apgujeong. From what I hear, it is difficult for foreigners to get in touch. Most of his patients are locals and his bread and butter are upper blepharoplasties.


This is the first time I've heard about taking prednisolone after fat grafts; that makes so much sense. Thanks for sharing this knowledge! The problem I had with mine was that the fat on the left side of my forehead disappeared, leaving a weird looking indentation, while the right side was fine, and the nerve on the left side (supraorbital nerve) might have been damaged, according to what one doctor told me. Needless to say, I'm not going back to that same clinic.

I just checked out Machimpyo and their website appears to have an English version! I will try to get in touch with them and see what happens. Thanks for the info!

FYI my IG is @itzwhuteva. I tried to message you there first actually but it must have gotten stuck in your message request inbox, so I deleted it and tried contacting you here instead xD


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## MissOrange

derpbunnie said:


> This is the first time I've heard about taking prednisolone after fat grafts; that makes so much sense. Thanks for sharing this knowledge! The problem I had with mine was that the fat on the left side of my forehead disappeared, leaving a weird looking indentation, while the right side was fine, and the nerve on the left side (supraorbital nerve) might have been damaged, according to what one doctor told me. Needless to say, I'm not going back to that same clinic.
> 
> I just checked out Machimpyo and their website appears to have an English version! I will try to get in touch with them and see what happens. Thanks for the info!
> 
> FYI my IG is @itzwhuteva. I tried to message you there first actually but it must have gotten stuck in your message request inbox, so I deleted it and tried contacting you here instead xD


Hi @derpbunnie, I have messaged you on IG.


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## Teina

MissOrange said:


> Hi @Teina, interestingly facelifts bulk up the midface/cheeks and may then make the chin look smaller as the skin is pulled up. If the face is pulled tight across the cheeks, it can even make the eyes look smaller. Some surgeons recommend a chin implant if the face looks too round after a facelift. A long face may end up rounder and it depends on whether the patient is okay with this. Even with v line surgery, some Korean surgeons want to create a sharp pointy chin by moving bone to the chin and fixing it there. I think it depends on what your aesthetics are. In Japan a small chin is desirable. In Korea, a pointy chin with V line jaw is desirable. In the US a square jaw is more desirable. I think my aesthetic is more towards the Japanese look.
> 
> The pro is a pointy V line chin if done well. But the cons with a chin implant is if a too big implant is placed, it creates a masculine, strong chin and if removed or exchanged there is still loose skin from the stretch. Or the chin implant may become infected or rejected as it is a foreign body and this can happen in the short term or long term. Have you tried fillers to see if you like a bigger pointy chin? I would say try fillers to achieve the V line look first before you spend $1000s on a chin implant. Once you put an implant in, you start the cycle of replacements every 2-5 years on average and rarely every 10 years. Prices of surgery escalate each year so one has to factor this in whenever one gets any foreign body implant as even removal costs $$$$. I have made it a point now never to get a foreign body implant after spending a fortune on implants with all its complications, replacements, removals and fixing sagging skin.


Thank you. I didn't consider the risk. I've never really heard anyone talk about the chin implant being an issue. I'll look into genioplasty. I'm 29, i dont think i'll be qualified for the face lift.


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## Isabel83

MissOrange said:


> I just made another revelation. Fat grafting can be permanent after all and the key is to maintain the exact same weight you were when you got your fg and top ups. This morning I weighed 98 lbs in India which is closest to the 99 lbs I always weigh for my fat graft top ups. It means that 1 full face fat graft with 2 top ups is enough to last. When I went down to 95 lbs I noticed my lower face start to sag and my lids started to hollow.
> 
> Here is my morning photo in the pool at 98 lbs. The pool man asked if it was the first time in India for my daddy too! Lol. I don't blame him as I look super young. You look super young and beautiful. I am heading to SK in 2 weeks for full face fat graft. I used to do it every year but has not done it for 4 years. Does dr. Seo MVP performs good full fat graft? I plan to do it at VIP but dr. Lee tends to put little fat which doesn’t last long. Can you suggest where to go for face fat graft? Thanks so much.


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