# Implants....WHY do so many women get them???



## WalkInDayDreams

I live in Miami and I don't understand why anyone on this planet would want implants unless they have a condition where they had to get their breasts removed (e.x. cancer) or some abnormality/incident (ex. act of God).

It has always been ridiculous to me. I'm a 36 DD all natural NOTHING FAKE and ive never had kids. I'm still young in my early 20's. I WILL NEVER GET IMPLANTS. Reduction is understandable because of back/neck pain, etc....and the sag that comes with having such large ones.

BUT...Why do so many ladies want implants? 

To be attractive is...simply put...a stupid excuse for implants. All women have boobs they just come in all sizes...like mens "you know". 
-Although Pink has small "girlz", she's still hot...so the attractiveness factor is not a reason. 

Why can't women just be happy with the way their girlz naturally are?


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## Glamfoxx

Everyone has the right to their personal opinion about implants.  Maybe if you were totally flat chested, out of your 20's when the body starts to go south, or had kids, you would be more sympathetic to people who are not blessed with all you are endowed with.


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## bisousx

Glamfoxx said:


> Everyone has the right to their personal opinion about implants.  Maybe if you were totally flat chested, out of your 20's when the body starts to go south, or had kids, you would be more sympathetic to people who are not blessed with all you are endowed with.




Ditto to this ^ I can imagine it'd be hard to sympathize if you have natural DD's...


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## trishaluvslv

why can't other people just be happy for other people who want implants because they will feel better about themselves if they have them?  seriously, to each his own, why judge others for what they want???....not to be rude, but wait till you are 40, have had a kid or two, and then see what effect gravity, breast feeding and loss of collagen and aging has had on your breasts, and then tell us if you still feel the same????  In twenty years, i've gone from a 32D to a 34 b/c....after nursing my son, lots of running and reaching 40...I'd love a lift and impants to get back to a d cup....just to be where i started out 

 Geography certainly plays a role in the prevalence of implants - warmer climate/coastal cities/etc...you just happen to live in a place, like I do, where people wear less clothing because of warmer weather, where they are able to be more physically active and live a more fit lifestyle due to the climate/ocean/mountains/etc...and so they show their fit physiques off more in public.....right or wrong, I don't think ill of people if they choose to change their bodies, hwo is it any different then dyeing our hair, piercing our ears or getting a tattoo???


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## vhdos

The manner in which your thread was started is very confrontational and seems like it was meant to spark controversy.

You have DD's and you want to know why women want implants?  How rude of you in my opinion.  *Sounds like you're fishing for compliments*, wanting us to tell you how lovely they must be, how lucky you are, etc.  What difference does it make to you if women have implants?  Why can't you just be happy for women who have the power and the choice to do what they want with their bodies?


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## Sophie-Rose

where I live no one has the big "fake" ones...
I've seen one girl with normal sized C fakes, we said she was VERY flat and it made her unhappy- I must admit the fakes were really nicely done!
VERY natural!
she told me they were fake otherwise I would never have know...
they were very perky and a nice handfull size!!
I'm a D-cup but would have switched with her in a heartbeat- they were some hot fakes!!


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## Jahpson

girl, you got DDs!! of course you wouldn't get implants. LOL

I don't know. What I want to know is why folks put their face under the knife? thats a huge risk


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## gillianna

A few people I know have implants.  Some did them after cancer surgery and others because they felt they were too small.  They did it for themselves not to please another person.
The sad thing is that there are risks to implants too.  My best friend has had implants for about 5 years and has been sick with symptoms the doctors can't put a answer to. After about 8 doctors visits this past month it turns out her body is rejecting her implants or she is allergic to them.  She has a massive breast infection and needs them taken out.  It is really bad.....  After much research on the web for her it is shocking to read that implants are not as safe as all the doctors say.  www.toxicbreastimplants.com has  a place to go to articles and links to problems people have had. My friend's body is treating the implants as foreign matter and has been trying to reject them for years.   Another interesting note I read was people who have implants might need to take antiobotics before dental procedures---some doctors put implants in the category as a heart valve which needs antiobotics.  
All my friends with implants have been very happy except the one who needs them out, for a few years she has had second thoughts about them and wished she waited before rushing in.  She will have to get the implants out in the next few weeks but her plastic surgeon is pushing her to get the back flap implants using your back muscles----it makes you wonder $$$$$ who makes out the best with this.


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## vhdos

gillianna said:


> A few people I know have implants.  Some did them after cancer surgery and others because they felt they were too small.  They did it for themselves not to please another person.
> The sad thing is that there are risks to implants too.  My best friend has had implants for about 5 years and has been sick with symptoms the doctors can't put a answer to. After about 8 doctors visits this past month it turns out her body is rejecting her implants or she is allergic to them.  She has a massive breast infection and needs them taken out.  It is really bad.....  After much research on the web for her it is shocking to read that implants are not as safe as all the doctors say.  www.toxicbreastimplants.com has  a place to go to articles and links to problems people have had. My friend's body is treating the implants as foreign matter and has been trying to reject them for years.   Another interesting note I read was people who have implants might need to take antiobotics before dental procedures---some doctors put implants in the category as a heart valve which needs antiobotics.
> All my friends with implants have been very happy except the one who needs them out, for a few years she has had second thoughts about them and wished she waited before rushing in.  She will have to get the implants out in the next few weeks but her plastic surgeon is pushing her to get the back flap implants using your back muscles----it makes you wonder $$$$$ who makes out the best with this.



You've referenced a web site that is not written/managed/maintained by medical doctors/experts.  It is simply women's "stories" and quite possibly not a credible source of information.  
Are there risks associated with breast implants?  Absolutely.  But there are risks to _any _surgical procedure.  Breast augmentation is a surgical procedure that utilizes an implanted device, which is much like so many other surgical procedures - a new hip, a replacement knee, a spinal fusion, etc.  Any type of surgical implant is a foreign substance in the body, be it metal, silicone, titanium, etc.
I personally know several women with implants and not one of them has experienced any major side effects, which is not to say that side effects can't happen.


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## Swanky

ick, judgemental much? Maybe you'll change your mind after you have kids.
Before kids mine were also DD's.  After nursing 3 kids they were D's but not perky.  To have them just lifted would've changed their size down to about a B. . . . I was never a B and wasn't sure I wanted a "new" Swanky.  I wanted old Swanky back.  So I got a lift and implants.  So what?


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## bagaholic85

is this thread for real?


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## jenniferelaine

I think this is a really interesting subject-the motivation behind the sign me ups & the hell, nos!  I don't judge anyone who has them-I'm a live & let live person most of the time & I'm an A cup.  I have no desire for implants or to be bigger-I could care less.  Do what makes YOU happy.  But I guess I'm wondering & NO JUDGEMENT, why bigger or lifted breasts makes someone feel better about themselves?  And I'm asking sincerely, please believe me.  I've often wondered that when I hear 'I'm doing it for myself'. I can almost understand if you were doing it for a man bc 'my boyfriend likes big boobs' is a reason.  Is it along the same lines as wearing makeup or coloring your hair, as I saw that mentioned above.  I wear makeup but don't color my hair (I'm 32 & am sure I will when I'm 50) but I was just sincerely wondering & this thread seemed like a good place to inquire.

*Again, no judgement at all as I know plenty of people who have them & they look great, no doubt about it.  But its hard to ask people you that as I'm sure its intensely personal.  KWIM?


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## Vegas Long Legs

OK well you asked. 

Its not just about the breast size. For many women, its the whole package. Is the rest of the body in great shape? One can be overweight & have huge breasts, that's alot of what happens when putting on weight. It also goes into your breasts. Why focus on just the breast sizes? Don't ignore the rest of the body. Its one whole package. 

Alot of women work out. They get their body in shape & might lose some breast tissue. These women care not just about breast size but the whole package. Most just want to look nice & don't go around talking about the specific size of breasts. Again its the WHOLE package.


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## Swanky

Well, droopy boobs *to me* weren't pretty.  Call me shallow, call me whatever, but we all have our "thangs" and for some it's a fat chin, to others it's saggy bewbs.
It was about how my clothes fit, bras fit, how I felt in a swimsuit, how my back hurt, etc. . . 
I worked by buttkus off in the gym and the boobs kept heading south.  I have the means to fix it, so why not
I also prefer my hair shiny and buttery blonde. . .  I wanna smile when I look in the mirror and seeing brown roots and saggy ta tas wasn't making me smile 
Why do any of us do what we do? {wear make up, exercise, dress nice, etc. . . }


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## vhdos

^Well-said swank!

I, too, think that this is an interesting topic, but the way in which the thread was started is _very_ tacky IMO.
I don't get why women feel the need to "understand" the process.  The reason behind it is different for each woman and doesn't need to be justified.  I'm sure that it's not a decision that's taken lightly by anyone who chooses to have it done.


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## Vegas Long Legs

^^^ ITA with swank & vhdos!  
Live in Vegas, trying my hardest to think of a woman in my social group who doesn't have them. lol  I'm the only one who hasn't had a face lift yet, as long as the fillers work will be delaying this. These women are 40+


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## karmenzsofia

Yikes...are you daydreaming?

Well, of course you're not going to get implants if you're a 36DD. Has it not occurred to you that the reason you don't understand why women get implants is because of your size?  I doubt you would be happy flat, lopsided or droopy in Miami, were fakeness of every kind abounds. 

IMO, asking why "women" get them as though every woman is the same shows a lack of perspective and common sense in this area.

You also speak as though you don't "implant" something on yourself every day to make yourself more attractive, which you most likely do.

Let's see...what are the chances that all of your clothes, shoes, handbags, etc., are from Walmart or Kmart? Do you not spend money unnecessarily on fashionable clothes and accessories? Why? Is it not to look better? (You can say that it's just to "feel" better, but that's not true kuz looking good is part of what makes you feel better.) All you truly need to survive is a few basic tops and bottoms, a pair of sneakers, and a plastic bag to carry your stuff around (who needs a purse!). But you use clothing and accessories to make yourself more attractive.

Do you not brush or style your hair? Do you not put products on it, cut it, color it, whatever it is that you do to make it look and feel better, thus making yourself more attractive? Do you not shave or wax your legs, armpits and so-called bikini area? Do you not wax or bleach that little mustache or, if you don't have one yet, are you going to wear it proudly, like a man?  

What about your face? Do you not have a skincare routine hoping to, among other things, avoid blemishes (or get rid of them) and delay wrinkles? Why would do that? Do you not wear make up, even just lipstick, to make yourself more attractive? Why put that crap on your face? Shouldn't you be happy with your face?

And your teeth...maybe you're one of the lucky ones who didn't have to get braces, but have you not used any whitening products on them or, if you haven't, wouldn't you if you woke up one day and they were yellow or grey? Right or wrong, good or bag, these days in the U.S. people want and expect perfect white teeth. Do you wonder why they can't be happy with their stained teeth? :greengrin:

And your body...don't you do some type of exercise? Walking, jogging, running, swimming, cycling, weight lifting, dancing, pilates, yoga, Tae Bo, something? And, no, it's not_ just_ for your health.  

You may not have breast implants, but you're fooling yourself if you think you're _al naturale_. Unless you use the cheapest and plainest of garments to cover your body (since public nakedness is not allowed in this country), do nothing to you hair and skin, wear absolutely no make up, do nothing to modify the shape of your body, embellish yourself and/or make yourself more attractive--unless you live like that, you're not in a very solid position to blast what others do with their boobs, especially when you're bouncing around a pair of 36DD's.

Why can't you just be happy with the way you naturally are?


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## vhdos

^Amen karmenzsophia!  Thank you for spelling it out so eloquently!


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## jayjay77

I have asked the same question myself because I think an A cup is just as beautiful as a DD cup.  I can understand getting a lift after having babies but just don't understand the bigger is better mentality.  I'm in my late 40s and pretty happy with my body and overall looks.

Plus, I can't equate surgery where there is the risk of death to wanting to wear make-up or color your hair. A friend of my mother's almost died during a face lift.  I guess that scared me off plastic surgery.  If other people want to take the risk great, just not for me.


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## vhdos

^There is a risk of death associated with driving your car...
I don't think that karmenzsophia was necessarily _comparing_ the two things (surgery vs. make-up/hair color).  I think that she was just trying to make a point that the OP is probably not as "natural" as she claims.


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## klj

WalkInDayDreams said:


> I live in Miami and I don't understand why anyone on this planet would want implants unless they have a condition where they had to get their breasts removed (e.x. cancer) or some abnormality/incident (ex. act of God).
> 
> It has always been ridiculous to me. I'm a 36 DD all natural NOTHING FAKE and ive never had kids. I'm still young in my early 20's. I WILL NEVER GET IMPLANTS. Reduction is understandable because of back/neck pain, etc....and the sag that comes with having such large ones.
> 
> BUT...Why do so many ladies want implants?
> 
> To be attractive is...simply put...a stupid excuse for implants. All women have boobs they just come in all sizes...like mens "you know".
> -Although Pink has small "girlz", she's still hot...so the attractiveness factor is not a reason.
> 
> Why can't women just be happy with the way their girlz naturally are?


 
I think if you have them...(and it sounds like you do) a person doesn't know what its like to not have them...or fill out clothes or whatever the reason..it makes a difference.


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## Vegas Long Legs

jayjay77 said:


> I have asked the same question myself because I think an A cup is just as beautiful as a DD cup. I can understand getting a lift after having babies but just don't understand the bigger is better mentality. I'm in my late 40s and pretty happy with my body and overall looks.
> 
> Plus, I can't equate surgery where there is the risk of death to wanting to wear make-up or color your hair. A friend of my mother's almost died during a face lift. I guess that scared me off plastic surgery. If other people want to take the risk great, just not for me.


 

There are people who shouldn't be having surgery. The doctor know the danger before hand. Kanye West mom was one of these. She doctor shopped till she found one that told her what she wanted to hear, not the truth. And she is no longer with us.


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## BigPurseSue

jayjay77 said:


> I have asked the same question myself because I think an A cup is just as beautiful as a DD cup. I can understand getting a lift after having babies but just don't understand the bigger is better mentality. I'm in my late 40s and pretty happy with my body and overall looks.
> 
> Plus, I can't equate surgery where there is the risk of death to wanting to wear make-up or color your hair. A friend of my mother's almost died during a face lift. I guess that scared me off plastic surgery. If other people want to take the risk great, just not for me.


 
ITA!  As someone who's gone through life as an A cup I can't say I've found it to be a horrific debility or even a minor obstacle to general happiness. 

I think any beauty treatment which requires general anesthetic should give one pause. Olivia Goldsmith, author of "First Wives Club," died during a chin-lift not too long ago.


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## MarneeB

OP, you're blessed with 'big ones' so of course you wouldn't understand why some women want implants. Maybe once you age and your boobies sag you'll think differently? I don't have them either, but I would never judge someone on such a personal decision about their own bodies. We are here for such a short time, we might as well be happy. It always helps when we, as women, are happy for each other instead of tearing each other down. Fake boobs don't make me form an opinion on someone any faster than real boobs.


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## natmk28

this is such an odd thread to start given the fact that you have big boobs, of course you wouldn't get it
a) you've never tried on stuff only to not be able to buy it because you don't fill it up on top
b)you've never wanted to buy lacy bras but really cant because they don't fit your tiny chest right
c) you don't need to wear a push up bra to feel like you look proportionate.

I don't have them, but I'm a 34a and fully intend on getting a pair after I've popped out a couple of kids. and I don't think there is anything wrong with doing it if it will make a person happier overall. which, in my case I am pretty much positive it will.

I really found the way you phrased your post kind of offensive and incendiary if you couldn't tell from my response.


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## Swanky

> As someone who's gone through life as an A cup I can't say I've found it to be a horrific debility or even a minor obstacle to general happiness.


I don't know anyone who thinks an A cup is a "horrific debility or even a minor obstacle to general happiness"  certainly no one here is saying that.


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## macska

I guess the old adage "the grass is always greener on the other side" would apply ... it's a matter of personal choice. 

I'm very happy with, and grateful for, my natural 34 C. I've been blessed with "proportional to my body" breasts - not too big, not too small ... just right.


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## mmmsc

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Well, droopy boobs *to me* weren't pretty.  Call me shallow, call me whatever, but we all have our "thangs" and for some it's a fat chin, to others it's saggy bewbs.
> It was about how my clothes fit, bras fit, how I felt in a swimsuit, how my back hurt, etc. . .
> I worked by buttkus off in the gym and the boobs kept heading south.  I have the means to fix it, so why not
> I also prefer my hair shiny and buttery blonde. . .  I wanna smile when I look in the mirror and seeing brown roots and saggy ta tas wasn't making me smile
> Why do any of us do what we do? {wear make up, exercise, dress nice, etc. . . }


Totally agree with you Swanky Nursing three kids was hard on the bosoms and gravity does the rest..


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## Swanky

Despite popular belief, those of us that got them don't subscribe to "bigger is better".  The stereotypes should cease.
I actually know 1st hand that if mine were smaller I'd look thinner and fit more easily into the clothing I want. . .  but that's never who I've been.  So when I got mine picked up and had the option to be smaller or be filled back to original size I chose to go back to my original size because that felt like *_me_*.

The beautiful clothing isn't made for big bewbs  
We all have our issues, don't minimize or judge people for choosing differently than you would.


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## jenniferelaine

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I don't know anyone who thinks an A cup is a "horrific debility or even a minor obstacle to general happiness"  certainly no one here is saying that.


 

I think she was just referring to basically that 'cosmetic' implants (not when being used after mastectomies or in cases of deformation) by simply _existing,_ implies that being smaller chested would be a condition in which surgerical invention would be necessary to have a happy life, yada yada.  

I will say I made a Victorias Secret sales associate laugh REALLY hard telling her I was completely totally offended 1) that they don't make bras SMALL enough for me & 2) that the lingerie manufacturers assume that just bc I am, in fact, an A cup that I would WANT large breasts & they are helping me out by offering bras that push together, lift you up, or gives you a cup size, all with the misguided attempt to help me feel better about myself.  What would help me feel good about myself is buying a bra in a small size that fits properly & supports me.  I told her I found this situation to be HIGHLY offensive!!:lolots: She couldn't tell whether I was serious or not ( & I was), but in our world of implants & it IS somewhat implied that bigger boobs will make you a happier person.


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## LOREBUNDE

Putting aside the fact that the OP is well endowed, I think I get what she is saying.  I think she's trying to say that all breast sizes should be considered attractive.  I am on the small side.  When I was younger I would of loved to be a bigger size but now older, I am content with what I have.  Mind you wearing a swim suit I wish they were bigger.  But I agree, I think woman think if they don't have huge ones they are not attractive and that is not true.  So many shows you see these 20 something's that are beautiful, have beautiful figures but because their friends have bigger breasts, they go out and get implants.  An ex. she gave was Pink.  She has a great body and little boobs.A woman is more than the size of her breasts.


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## tillie46

ITA with Swanky......I don't feel anyone should have to justify what changes they may want to make to their body.  Everyone is different, and has a right to feel good about themselves.  Some people are not as lucky as others as far as what we've been given physically in life.  I for one, reserve the right to do what I feel is necessary to make myself feel good.  I also believe in moderation, and I have the full support of my family in that respect. If that makes me shallow person.........so be it!  When I think I look good, I feel good!


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## Swanky

If Tillie is shallow and as hot as she is at her age, I'M SO WITH HER!!!!


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## tillie46

^Thank you Swanky............I rest my case!


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## Swanky




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## tillie46

^


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## HauteMama

Everyone has different priorities and different concepts of what they want their body to look like. Almost NONE of us are completely happy with everything we have being 100% natural - people color their hair, wear makeup, wear shaping garments under clothing, have artificial fingernails, have their ears (and other places) pierced, etc. And while that may not be comparable to a surgical procedure, if a person is well-informed of the risks associated with the surgery, it is their choice to make. What is right for one person isn't always right for someone else.

I would not have breast augmentation, but I wouldn't mind a tummy tuck. I've lost the weight since having children, but that doesn't fix the saggy skin. Why not be completely happy with what I have naturally? Well, vanity plays a part, and it can be difficult to adjust to changes in our bodies, no matter how natural they might be. Right now I am happy to say I wouldn't want facial cosmetic surgery, but then again I am 39. Might I feel different in 15 or 20 years? Possibly, and I cannot rule out the possibility. I'd like to age as gracefully as possible, but I cannot predict how I will look or how I will feel about how I look a decade or more from now.

It would be very nice if everyone were considered attractive for WHO they were and not what they looked like. But every society has standards of beauty. Many of them are illusions, but we are all influenced in some way by them for good or for bad. I won't judge someone who wants to change their body or face or hair in some way, and I would expect the same courtesy extended to me if I ever decided to change something more significantly than with cosmetics or clothing.


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## miss_sigh_gone

jayjay77 said:


> I have asked the same question myself because I think an A cup is just as beautiful as a DD cup. I can understand getting a lift after having babies but just don't understand the bigger is better mentality. I'm in my late 40s and pretty happy with my body and overall looks.
> 
> Plus, I can't equate surgery where there is the risk of death to wanting to wear make-up or color your hair. A friend of my mother's almost died during a face lift. I guess that scared me off plastic surgery. If other people want to take the risk great, just not for me.


 

I agree with you. I read a recent article on *GQ* magazine where the writer of the article (Wish I could find it) said that a real A-cup is better than a fake D-cup (or a fake cup of any size for that matter). Besides the health risks and the need to get it taken out every 10 years or so, it was also a turn-off during sex since it was "cold and dead" to the touch.


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## miss_sigh_gone

tillie46 said:


> ITA with Swanky......I don't feel anyone should have to justify what changes they may want to make to their body. Everyone is different, and has a right to feel good about themselves. Some people are not as lucky as others as far as what we've been given physically in life. I for one, reserve the right to do what I feel is necessary to make myself feel good. I also believe in moderation, and I have the full support of my family in that respect. If that makes me shallow person.........so be it! When I think I look good, I feel good!


 

People who undergo the knife are usually not happy with themselves, I know several who have done it and feel just as crappy as they used to. Except this time around, its not their bra-size anymore, its their noses and jawlines...etc etc.


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## Swanky

LMBO at "cold and dead to the touch"  WTH?  Who's boobs are they touching? Neither DH nor I can really tell a difference and since I am warm blooded, they are certaily not cold!:lolots:


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## vhdos

^and I know several people who have done it and it solved the "problem" requiring no additional surgeries to any other parts of their bodies.  Not everyone who has plastic surgery becomes an addict of sorts.  Sometimes it truly is about being unhappy with your breasts and once the problem is corrected, they can move on with life as usual.  I'm sure that there are those people that you describe above misssighgone, but that's not the experiences that I've had with the people who have gotten the procedure.


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## Swanky

me! LOL! I'm not looking to change anything else.  Good grief, *most* people aren't that hardcore, c'mon.


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## vhdos

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> LMBO at "cold and dead to the touch"  WTH?  Who's boobs are they touching? Neither DH nor I can really tell a difference and since I am warm blooded, they are certaily not cold!:lolots:



OMG!  I didn't even catch that part until I saw your post swank!  Hilarious!!!    Any foreign object placed inside the body would obviously warm up to body temperature.  That one comment took any credibility out of that article. 
And as far as men finding a "real" A-cup better than a "fake" D-cup, I just don't buy it.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are _plenty_ of men on this planet who feel that way, but I've yet to see one look away when they see a woman with a D-cup (real or fake)  I seriously doubt that if a man is getting "lucky" he's saying to himself, "darn, I wish these boobs were real."


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## HauteMama

Wow, to assume that anyone who has plastic surgery is an addict with deep-seated issues is REALLY OTT. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of people who have had a surgery like that have only had one procedure, not one after another. And "cold and dead"? No, REALLY? I cannot imagine who would say something so ridiculous! In a lot of cases, no one but the owner knows if they are "real" or not, and they look and feel entirely natural. Some people want big, high-profile, obviously fake breasts, but most people neither want nor have those.


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## karmenzsofia

miss_sigh_gone said:


> I agree with you. I read a recent article on *GQ* magazine where the writer of the article (Wish I could find it) said that a real A-cup is better than a fake D-cup (or a fake cup of any size for that matter). Besides the health risks and the need to get it taken out every 10 years or so, it was also a turn-off during sex since it was "cold and dead" to the touch.



First of all, what you read is not scientific fact but opinion, and as that it should be reported. Personally, I find that person's opinion utterly ridiculous. Don't believe everything you read...


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## Lec8504

miss_sigh_gone said:


> People who undergo the knife are usually not happy with themselves, I know several who have done it and feel just as crappy as they used to. Except this time around, its not their bra-size anymore, its their noses and jawlines...etc etc.


 
Not happy with themselves?  I think everyone has a thing about themselves that they don't like and that they would want to change..people who get plastic surgery are just the ones to take the intiative to actually change it.  

My sister's friends some of them have gotten plastic surgeries...and no they've never gone back for 2nds or 3rds...it was just one thing that they didn't like about themselves (be it their nose, eyelids, etc)..and they fixed it.  

*Everyone has insecurities...not just people who go under the knife.*

And I'm sorry but "cold and dead"??!  Who's boobs have your friend been touching?  And the article that you mentioned is an opinion of ONE man...go outside in real life and ask a guy..they wouldn't care if the boobs are fake or real..they're just happy they get to touch any boobs at all.


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## KristyDarling

vhdos said:


> The manner in which your thread was started is very confrontational and seems like it was meant to spark controversy.
> 
> You have DD's and you want to know why women want implants?  How rude of you in my opinion.  *Sounds like you're fishing for compliments*, wanting us to tell you how lovely they must be, how lucky you are, etc.  What difference does it make to you if women have implants?  Why can't you just be happy for women who have the power and the choice to do what they want with their bodies?



I agree with every word, vhdos. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but for the OP to come out swinging in such an aggressive manner is just plain offensive. 

OP - there are far nicer and less judgmental ways of expressing your thoughts. Unless you are looking for a fight (i.e. trolling), in which case you would probably not last here very long, I suggest that you think about how your tone may be perceived by others before you post next time. 

That said, what a woman does with her own body is her own business. I do not have breast implants but I have had plastic surgery (tummy tuck after 2 babies). I was happy and confident before my surgery, and I'm happy and confident after my surgery. I just look nicer in clothes now, which was my main goal.  

Until YOU have experienced life with a flat chest, or until you have had babies and see what it does to your body, don't presume to "know it all" or pass judgment.


----------



## SPOILEDkiwi

WalkInDayDreams said:


> *I'm a 36 DD all natural* NOTHING FAKE and ive never had kids. I'm still young in my early 20's. *I WILL NEVER GET IMPLANTS.*



What a tough decision you were faced with. Whats' the point of this thread? To make women with implants feel inferior to you because you're happy with your natural breasts and they aren't? If someone wants bigger breasts, a smaller nose, flatter stomach, etc. then it's their right to do whatever they want without having to justify it to anyone.


----------



## ~Fabulousity~

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> ick, judgemental much? Maybe you'll change your mind after you have kids.
> Before kids mine were also DD's. After nursing 3 kids they were D's but not perky. To have them just lifted would've changed their size down to about a B. . . . I was never a B and wasn't sure I wanted a "new" Swanky. I wanted old Swanky back. So I got a lift and implants. So what?


 
yeah same here I was a 34D since about 14 and after my second baby my girlfriends have gone flat. I've been thinking about implants lately, I want my old breast back.


----------



## Swanky

go get them Hon, it's worth it   We know our bodies will never be the same, but to get some of it back is completely understandable IMO.


----------



## merika

Can someone take away my wrinkles and put my boobs back where they used to be?


----------



## vhdos

I noticed that the OP hasn't posted since she started this thread.  No big surprise I guess.


----------



## karmenzsofia

Vhdos, are those your legs? Or are they implants?


----------



## TheWinglessBird

I'm just happy that in years to come, my boobies wont be all big & saggy!!

I don't like the look of big breasts & neither does the guy I love, so why should I? I'm a 34A & I don't have a problem with attracting guys at all - so all those guys interested in a girl who clearly has a petite frame, a 34A, clearly those guys are not so bothered about big breasts. I think big boobie love is becoming something of the past


----------



## ~Fabulousity~

karmenzsofia said:


> Vhdos, are those your legs? Or are they implants?


 

LMAO!!

Swanky i'm going for a consult in the next few months


----------



## surferchick2

Jahpson said:


> girl, you got DDs!! of course you wouldn't get implants. LOL


 
Seriously. That's like saying, "Even though I'm an AA, I will NEVER get a breast reduction." Gosh, and why not??


----------



## vhdos

karmenzsofia said:


> Vhdos, are those your legs? Or are they implants?



You're hilarious!  My DH is sitting in his office and probably thinks I'm crazy because I just busted out laughing here in the living room all by myself.
Oh, and yes, my legs are real - I'm 100% natural!!!!!  Well, except for my highlights.  Oh, and my make-up.  And, um, my eyelash growth stimulator... 
Okay, so not so "natural", but I feel pretty darn good about myself


----------



## karmenzsofia

surferchick2 said:


> Seriously. That's like saying, "Even though I'm an AA, I will NEVER get a breast reduction." Gosh, and why not??




I have a serious problem with women that have face lifts. I mean, why? Why would they put themselves through such an ordeal other than to please others and meet society's expectations? They should learn to love themselves as they are, or spend the money in therapy and yoga classes to reach a state of self-acceptance. Ridiculous.

BTW, I'm freaking gorgeous, couldn't be hotter, but that has nothing to do with my beliefs about plastic surgery.


----------



## karmenzsofia

vhdos said:


> You're hilarious!  My DH is sitting in his office and probably thinks I'm crazy because I just busted out laughing here in the living room all by myself.
> Oh, and yes, my legs are real - I'm 100% natural!!!!!  Well, except for my highlights.  Oh, and my make-up.  And, um, my eyelash growth stimulator...
> Okay, so not so "natural", but I feel pretty darn good about myself


----------



## shanam

tillie46 said:


> ITA with Swanky......I don't feel anyone should have to justify what changes they may want to make to their body.  Everyone is different, and has a right to feel good about themselves.  Some people are not as lucky as others as far as what we've been given physically in life.  I for one, reserve the right to do what I feel is necessary to make myself feel good.  I also believe in moderation, and I have the full support of my family in that respect. If that makes me shallow person.........so be it!  When I think I look good, I feel good!



and i agree with you!!!  Some features are more important to one person than they are to another. I spend  a hell of a lot of $$ on my hair but that has always been the bane of my existence since i was a kid - so having great hair makes me happy .  it's all about what matters to each indivdual.  like you said tillie, if i look good i feel good and it shows in my attitude.


----------



## mmmsc

shanam said:


> and i agree with you!!!  Some features are more important to one person than they are to another. I spend  a hell of a lot of $$ on my hair but that has always been the bane of my existence since i was a kid - so having great hair makes me happy .  it's all about what matters to each indivdual.  like you said tillie, if i look good i feel good and it shows in my attitude.


Shanam - if that is you in your avatar, now THAT is hot! You go, girl!!! And go  everybody else who wants/needs to have face lift, new boobs, new butt, new teeth, every week visit to the salon, hair transplant...WHATEVER, it's all  good if you want/need it.. We are only here once,  so look your best and feel your best and do whatever it takes to  ENJOY your life! Merries******


----------



## tillie46

^^So true, Shanam.........us girls over 60 have to definitely stick together!


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

karmenzsofia said:


> I have a serious problem with women that have face lifts. I mean, why? Why would they put themselves through such an ordeal other than to please others and meet society's expectations? They should learn to love themselves as they are, or spend the money in therapy and yoga classes to reach a state of self-acceptance. Ridiculous.
> 
> BTW, I'm freaking gorgeous, couldn't be hotter, but that has nothing to do with my beliefs about plastic surgery.


 

Trust me, had all the therapy I need for self acceptance. No low self esteem on my end. Love myself just as I am. I'm at the stage where I'm very thankful I don't get as much attention from men as I used to. Got to be too much. Don't need it, don't really find it flattering anymore. Just need the love & devotion of my DH.    
But I'll still get work done when I feel I need one. Why because I want to maintain looking nice. Some day I will no longer recoginize who I see in the mirror, it won't match how I feel on the inside. 

But to me, to hold back on other women & not share how they too can look great is a crock. Most women celebrities over 45 have had alot of stuff done. And to claim its a cream or whatever, pfft. There are pcitures out there floating around pre - surgery. Had enough friends do enough, I know work when I see it.       

You are young, what you say on probably every subject will most likely will change as you get older. Especially if you are gorgeous, you will want to maintain that.


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## karmenzsofia

*VLL:* You know I was joking, right? You know...doing the same thing as was done for this thread but instead of implants using face lifts...


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## Hally

Well, I find it ridiculous that anyone would wear high heels!  Oh, and I'm over 5'9" in my stocking feet.   

My breasts are mine, too.  I paid for them myself.


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## schadenfreude

Judge not, lest ye be judged! Or, live and let live. It's no one's business but the individual.


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## plr16

Not to bring up something from page 3, but I think what the poster who referred to people still being unhappy was trying to get at was body dysmorphia. This doesn't occur in most people who get plastic surgery, but people with body dysmorphia tend to get multiple plastic surgeries due to a mental disorder that lies in a similar spectrum to eating disorders. This isn't the case with most people who get plastic surgery, but I think its what she was referring to. Not sure how that's the case with all of the people she knows who have gotten implants lol.

And guys I've spoken to about this all said they prefer natural to implants as long as there is definitely something there, just because even with "teardrop" implants there's still a difference.


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## WalkInDayDreams

karmenzsofia said:


> Yikes...are you daydreaming?
> 
> Well, of course you're not going to get implants if you're a 36DD. Has it not occurred to you that the reason you don't understand why women get implants is because of your size? I doubt you would be happy flat, lopsided or droopy in Miami, were fakeness of every kind abounds.
> 
> IMO, asking why "women" get them as though every woman is the same shows a lack of perspective and common sense in this area.
> 
> You also speak as though you don't "implant" something on yourself every day to make yourself more attractive, which you most likely do.
> 
> Let's see...what are the chances that all of your clothes, shoes, handbags, etc., are from Walmart or Kmart? Do you not spend money unnecessarily on fashionable clothes and accessories? Why? Is it not to look better? (You can say that it's just to "feel" better, but that's not true kuz looking good is part of what makes you feel better.) All you truly need to survive is a few basic tops and bottoms, a pair of sneakers, and a plastic bag to carry your stuff around (who needs a purse!). But you use clothing and accessories to make yourself more attractive.
> 
> Do you not brush or style your hair? Do you not put products on it, cut it, color it, whatever it is that you do to make it look and feel better, thus making yourself more attractive? Do you not shave or wax your legs, armpits and so-called bikini area? Do you not wax or bleach that little mustache or, if you don't have one yet, are you going to wear it proudly, like a man?
> 
> What about your face? Do you not have a skincare routine hoping to, among other things, avoid blemishes (or get rid of them) and delay wrinkles? Why would do that? Do you not wear make up, even just lipstick, to make yourself more attractive? Why put that crap on your face? Shouldn't you be happy with your face?
> 
> And your teeth...maybe you're one of the lucky ones who didn't have to get braces, but have you not used any whitening products on them or, if you haven't, wouldn't you if you woke up one day and they were yellow or grey? Right or wrong, good or bag, these days in the U.S. people want and expect perfect white teeth. Do you wonder why they can't be happy with their stained teeth? :greengrin:
> 
> And your body...don't you do some type of exercise? Walking, jogging, running, swimming, cycling, weight lifting, dancing, pilates, yoga, Tae Bo, something? And, no, it's not_ just_ for your health.
> 
> You may not have breast implants, but you're fooling yourself if you think you're _al naturale_. Unless you use the cheapest and plainest of garments to cover your body (since public nakedness is not allowed in this country), do nothing to you hair and skin, wear absolutely no make up, do nothing to modify the shape of your body, embellish yourself and/or make yourself more attractive--unless you live like that, you're not in a very solid position to blast what others do with their boobs, especially when you're bouncing around a pair of 36DD's.
> 
> Why can't you just be happy with the way you naturally are?


 



Actually, I DO NOT WEAR MAKEUP.  I'm not a fan of makeup at all. I have never colored my hair. I rarely cut it and when I do, I cut it myself when the ends begin to look like they are starting to split- for the purpose preventing damage to it. I do something about the way my body looks- I exercise and I do it for fun and for my health. Super Walmart is right down the street from me and I don't buy much clothes there. My favorite section is the garden center since I'm a fanatic of botany. I wear scrubs a lot since I'm studying to be a doctor and I work in a private practice where I see BEAUTIFUL women come in and complain about the way they look all the time. 

Anyhow, I didn't create this thread to offend or "blast" anyone. I'm perfectly happy with the way I am and wish that others were perfectly happy with the way they are too. I would still be happy at any SMALLER size and wish for women to be happy that way. As a matter of fact, we are conducting a study in one of my classes on the subject of implants (in general) and the many dangers behind them. 

Personally, I honestly wouldn't mind being a smaller natural cup size- you don't have to worry about the sag or your back hurting and you can work out all you want without having to worry about anything. Heck- I work out A LOT and all that *bouncy bouncy* when doing cardio is NO FUN! It is actually painful and annoying..and sports bra's don't necessarily help. I find myself wearing sports bra's more often than not to make them look smaller to fit them in to some of my tops.


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## WalkInDayDreams

LOREBUNDE said:


> *Putting aside the fact that the OP is well endowed, I think I get what she is saying. I think she's trying to say that all breast sizes should be considered attractive. I am on the small side. When I was younger I would of loved to be a bigger size but now older, I am content with what I have. Mind you wearing a swim suit I wish they were bigger. But I agree, I think woman think if they don't have huge ones they are not attractive and that is not true. So many shows you see these 20 something's that are beautiful, have beautiful figures but because their friends have bigger breasts, they go out and get implants. An ex. she gave was Pink. She has a great body and little boobs.A woman is more than the size of her breasts.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Exactly.
> Apparently you might have been one of the few who actually read what I said about Pink. Thank you for your post.
> 
> Happy Holidays Everyone!


----------



## WalkInDayDreams

gillianna said:


> A few people I know have implants. Some did them after cancer surgery and others because they felt they were too small. They did it for themselves not to please another person.
> The sad thing is that there are risks to implants too. My best friend has had implants for about 5 years and has been sick with symptoms the doctors can't put a answer to. After about 8 doctors visits this past month it turns out her body is rejecting her implants or she is allergic to them. She has a massive breast infection and needs them taken out. It is really bad..... After much research on the web for her it is shocking to read that implants are not as safe as all the doctors say. www.toxicbreastimplants.com has a place to go to articles and links to problems people have had. My friend's body is treating the implants as foreign matter and has been trying to reject them for years. Another interesting note I read was people who have implants might need to take antiobotics before dental procedures---some doctors put implants in the category as a heart valve which needs antiobotics.
> All my friends with implants have been very happy except the one who needs them out, for a few years she has had second thoughts about them and wished she waited before rushing in. She will have to get the implants out in the next few weeks but her plastic surgeon is pushing her to get the back flap implants using your back muscles----it makes you wonder $$$$$ who makes out the best with this.


 
Thank you so much for your reply and for this link! I also will forward it to my classmates who are also conducting studies on this matter. I pray for those of you who have gotten impants that you do not have to deal with such horrors like Beth- (http://www.toxicbreastimplants.org/index.htm). 

God Bless! Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


----------



## SPOILEDkiwi

WalkInDayDreams said:


> Anyhow, I didn't create this thread to offend or "blast" anyone.



I'm sorry, but it's a fact of life that some women think bigger breasts are more attractive. It's great that you think smaller breasts are attractive but stating that women getting implants because they want to be more attractive is a "stupid excuse for implants" *is* offensive. There's a nice way to state an opinion, and then there's the way you did it.


----------



## vhdos

SPOILEDkiwi said:


> I'm sorry, but it's a fact of life that some women think bigger breasts are more attractive. It's great that you think smaller breasts are attractive but stating that women getting implants because they want to be more attractive is a "stupid excuse for implants" *is* offensive. There's a nice way to state an opinion, and then there's the way you did it.



Exactly!

Also, implants are really not all that "unsafe."  For every woman like Beth, there are several others with no complications.  Then again, you would know this since you are taking  class on implants and studying to be a doctor...


----------



## plr16

Just wondering, aren't there more complications for these young women getting implants than for women who are done having children? Isn't it sometimes difficult to breast feed with implants? 

One great thing about implants, to mention what someone said about cancer patients: women who are at an incredibly high risk for breast cancer can get some sort of surgery where a vulnerable part of breast tissue is removed, then replaced by an implant. There was an article a while ago about a 19year old english woman who had this done because so many of her relatives had breast cancer. I'm not a doctor or a pre-med student, so correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## vhdos

No, the complications are the same for young, old, before kids, after kids, etc.  Rarely, nerve damage can occur that could impede breastfeeding.  This is especially true if the peri-areola (or nipple) incision is used.  However, some women do not have the abilty to breastfeed anyways, so it is difficult to determine if the implants are the true cause.
Yes, women who are at high risk for breast cancer (or more specifically who test positive for the gene) can have ALL of their breast tissue removed in an effort to prevent breast cancer.  The procedure is called a prophylactic mastectomy and can reduce breast cancer by up to 90%.


----------



## karmenzsofia

WalkInDayDreams said:


> Actually, I DO NOT WEAR MAKEUP.  I'm not a fan of makeup at all. I have never colored my hair. I rarely cut it and when I do, I cut it myself when the ends begin to look like they are starting to split- for the purpose preventing damage to it. I do something about the way my body looks- I exercise and I do it for fun and for my health. Super Walmart is right down the street from me and I don't buy much clothes there. My favorite section is the garden center since I'm a fanatic of botany. I wear scrubs a lot since I'm studying to be a doctor and I work in a private practice where I see BEAUTIFUL women come in and complain about the way they look all the time.
> 
> Anyhow, I didn't create this thread to offend or "blast" anyone. I'm perfectly happy with the way I am and wish that others were perfectly happy with the way they are too. I would still be happy at any SMALLER size and wish for women to be happy that way. As a matter of fact, we are conducting a study in one of my classes on the subject of implants (in general) and the many dangers behind them.
> 
> Personally, I honestly wouldn't mind being a smaller natural cup size- you don't have to worry about the sag or your back hurting and you can work out all you want without having to worry about anything. Heck- I work out A LOT and all that *bouncy bouncy* when doing cardio is NO FUN! It is actually painful and annoying..and sports bra's don't necessarily help. I find myself wearing sports bra's more often than not to make them look smaller to fit them in to some of my tops.



So you cut your hair ONLY kuz of split ends...not to look better in any way, shape or form. And you don't shave? Shape your eyebrows? Wear deodorant? No lip gloss or lipstick? You do absolutely nothing to enhance the way you look?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. No matter how you try to minimize what you do vs what others do, you _do _things--whatever they are--to modify your appearance.

With all due respect, I think your POV is quite narrow and shows a significant lack of experience. IMO, one thing is to disagree with or be against implants, or anything for that matter, after a well-rounded education on the matter, and another thing is what you do: impose your ways and philosophies on others, assuming you're right and they're wrong. And _that_ is a problem.

If you're studying to be a doctor, it would be to your benefit and the benefit of your future patients to inform and educate yourself in an objective (rather than subjective) way, and to approach these issues from a rational and non-biased point of view, because whether you like it or not, people eill make choices that you don't agree with. If you expect to treat only those patients who think as you do, and do as you think, you will have no patients.


----------



## schadenfreude

^ Agreed. A physician needs to be comfortable dealing with others' choices that they may not agree with. I'm glad my own personal physicians aren't as judgmental as the OP.


----------



## vhdos

Once again, well-said karmenzsophia!  Perhaps the OP needs to take a class in bedside manner because if she interacts and communicates with her patients they way she has on TPF, she's in for a rude-awakening.


----------



## olialm1

Why are we even discussing this?  The OP should have known that the way she approached this topic would lead to a negative response.  People are entitled to their opinions whether they're positive or negative, but individuals should also be able to get plastic surgery without speculation or having to defend themselves.


----------



## Weekend shopper

I am not into plastic surgery, but I do not knock those that do.  I myself am a DD, but I do not look down on a woman who gets a boob job.  It is a personal choice that should not be scrutinized.


----------



## TheWinglessBird

What is a DD?


karmenzsofia, you don't have to BUY anything. I think you should just face the fact that not EVERYBODY is sucked in by the media or even gives two ****s about impressing everyone. No, not everybody dyes their hair, not everybody wears makeup & NO not everybody cuts their hair to look good, but yes, really, they do just cut their hair for the sheer purpose of mainaining healthy hair. Not everybody works out just to possess a great figure, MAYBE they just do it to keep fit.


& by the way, deodorant doesn't enhance ones looks - It's being polite. Wearing deodorant is just being considerate about the people around you. You can handle being around ugly/low maintenance people surely, but can you handle B.O?


----------



## elkington

okay first of all let me say that i don't judge anyone who gets plastic surgery done! for myself i would never even consider it, but everyone to his own!  as long as you don't go all pamela anderson on yourself 

but how can make-up or cutting your hair be compared to surgery? okay, people do both to look more attractive, but by simply putting on a nice dress people try to look nice, too. i mean there are just sooo many ways to enhance the way you look and i think it's not the same to apply some make-up and wash it off in the evening as being cut open! 
i know, nowadays the risks are not as high as they used to, but surgery still puts the body into a lot of stress! 

even though many here seem reluctant to see that there are indeed women who think small breasts are attractive (and yes, pink is really hot!), please also respect people who only want to get surgery if they need it to stay alive so to speak and don't want to expose themselves to the possible risks


----------



## vhdos

^I don't think that there is ANYONE on this forum who is reluctant to see that small breasts are attractive.  That is quite contrary to what has been discussed.  The point of this thread has been to NOT JUDGE those who have chosen to have breast augmentation.  Also, again, karmenzsophia was not necessarily _comparing_ surgery to other superficial things like wearing make-up, doing your hair, etc.  She was responding to the OP proclaiming how "natural" she was, which was yet another dig on women who have chosen plastic surgery (meaning that they are fake or unnatural in some way).

TheWinglessBird:  A DD is a breast size that is large, which is why it is utterly ridiculous for the OP to ridicule women who want breast augmentation.  Obviously, she has no understanding of what it feels like to have small breasts when you truly desire larger ones.  
You've completely misunderstood what we have been trying to communicate, so it is of no use to attempt to clarify.


----------



## Swanky

I've said it once but it bears repeating:
*Delivery is EVERYTHING!!!*

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that you can mean the exact same thing if you choose to deliver your message in a respectful way.

Case in point:
_"do you like these shoes?"_

a} hell's no, those are fug girl! 
-or
b} no, I don't care for those personally

 see?  Means the same thing and ANYONE knows before they post what kind of message they really want to deliver.
The OP's delivery of her inquiry wasn't friendly or an attempt to 'just find out'.  It was judgmental, and if you're going to me judgmental, you WILL BE JUDGED back.


----------



## jwhitlock

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Well, droopy boobs *to me* weren't pretty. Call me shallow, call me whatever, but we all have our "thangs" and for some it's a fat chin, to others it's saggy bewbs.
> It was about how my clothes fit, bras fit, how I felt in a swimsuit, how my back hurt, etc. . .
> I worked by buttkus off in the gym and the boobs kept heading south. I have the means to fix it, so why not
> I also prefer my hair shiny and buttery blonde. . . I wanna smile when I look in the mirror and seeing brown roots and saggy ta tas wasn't making me smile
> Why do any of us do what we do? {wear make up, exercise, dress nice, etc. . . }


 
Right there witcha Swanky!!! Post two kids, I have COMPLETELY changed my opinion about plastic surgery... now it's "do whatever you want to do and can afford to do to make you happy!!"

I was a nice, perky full C. Now... not so much! I'd love to be back to there... even a nice full B would rock my world.

GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!


----------



## karmenzsofia

TheWinglessBird said:


> What is a DD?
> karmenzsofia, you don't have to BUY anything. I think you should just face the fact that not EVERYBODY is sucked in by the media or even gives two ****s about impressing everyone. No, not everybody dyes their hair, not everybody wears makeup & NO not everybody cuts their hair to look good, but yes, really, they do just cut their hair for the sheer purpose of mainaining healthy hair. Not everybody works out just to possess a great figure, MAYBE they just do it to keep fit.
> & by the way, deodorant doesn't enhance ones looks - It's being polite. Wearing deodorant is just being considerate about the people around you. You can handle being around ugly/low maintenance people surely, but can you handle B.O?



I think you misunderstood my point. I didn't say everybody does _all _of those things. What I said, and meant, is that everybody does _something_ to enhance his/her appearance, at least when it comes to people living in industrialized countries such as this one. And I disagree about the use of deodorant being motivated solely by the wish to be polite.

In case you think I'm just being biased, that I probably look and live like one of those wives from Orange County or Miami or wherever the hek they're from, let me point out that I happen to be one of those eternally casual, tree-hugging types who strongly disagree with the current standards of beauty and self-worth promoted by society, businesses, the media and everything and everyone involved in setting and maintaining trends Yet, that hasn't stopped me from doing _something _to enhance my looks at different stages of my life.

After decades of "virgin hair," I decided to get highlights a few years ago. I don't have them any more, but I did wear them for a while. I've never been one to wear base, face powder, concealer, blush..but back when I was working in an office I used to wear mascara and lipstick. At other times I also wore eye shadow. As to clothing...well, I hate clothes. To me, there's only one reason to wear them: to not be naked. I know they not only cover the body but also serve to show image, financial and social status, taste, ethnic background, etc.... In other words, I get that people use them to make themselves look elegant or sexy or sporty or professional, whatever, but I don't care. It's too much work. Yet, I'm surrounded by people who spend what to me is an unthinkable amount of money on their wardrobes. I could make the case that they're unhappy with themselves and need therapy, as some here have said or implied about those with implants.

The same applies to shoes. Other than my fall/winter boots, my four or five (total) pairs of shoes are from Pay_less_. Why? Kuz I couldn't care _less_. I could, therefore, make the case that those in the CL subforum who spend what I paid for rent last year on pieces of leather, vinyl and other materials to put between their feet and the ground are crazy. Can I fathom doing that myself? Nope. Does that mean it's inherently wrong for them to do it? Nope. It's wrong _for me_, not for them. To each her own.

The point I'm trying to make is that you don't have to have implants to respect those who have them. You can disagree, even campaign against them, but still treat those who have them decently. 




vhdos said:


> ...The point of this thread has been to NOT JUDGE those who have chosen to have breast augmentation.  Also, again, karmenzsophia was not necessarily _comparing_ surgery to other superficial things like wearing make-up, doing your hair, etc.  She was responding to the OP proclaiming how "natural" she was, which was yet another dig on women who have chosen plastic surgery (meaning that they are fake or unnatural in some way).
> 
> TheWinglessBird:  A DD is a breast size that is large, which is why it is utterly ridiculous for the OP to ridicule women who want breast augmentation.  Obviously, she has no understanding of what it feels like to have small breasts when you truly desire larger ones.
> You've completely misunderstood what we have been trying to communicate, so it is of no use to attempt to clarify.



Ditto.


----------



## kristie

I have implants that are fairly large...and why you ask????

BECAUSE I LOVE EM'!!!!  

I mean really.....OP, did you not think you were being judgmental and rude in your presentation of your question?

To each her own.....I have implants, whereas you, OP,  have a deficit of tact.


----------



## i_love_vinegar

I'm a natural 30D, and large chests run in my family. I'm 19 if you are curious. :BB 
Anyways, I can understand the motivation to get implants since "bigger is better" is definitely the motto tied to the United States, and also larger breast are equated as "more womanly" in the media etc.
What I don't understand are why someone would knowingly (ex. the doctor warned them) get implants that look like softballs about to rip through their chest. :/ 
Also the girls who get implants and continually flaunt them long after their surgery annoy me (although, in general, people who constantly need attention get on my nerves XD) -- just because you paid a fortune for your chest doesn't make it any more appropriate to have it constantly exposed to the world! >.<
I saw this VH1 reality show and this group of girls with giant fake chest were making fun of girls with smaller, natural chests...it was obnoxious. Even if they had naturally large chests, it is disgusting to act that way >.>  
In my opinion, as long as you don't let vanity rule your life (like the examples above), then why not better yourself? 



olialm1 said:


> Why are we even discussing this? The OP should have known that the way she approached this topic would lead to a negative response. People are entitled to their opinions whether they're positive or negative, but individuals should also be able to get plastic surgery without speculation or having to defend themselves.


^^^
I just wanted to add that your response was well-put. I agree!


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## katran26

to each their own!!!

I've always had a 32DD, frankly, they can get really annoying sometimes to me...I wish they were smaller, and sometimes I like them because they work with the clothes that I buy

there's a lot of talk out there on breast size - this is a personal decision and no matter what women decide to do, fellow women should support it


----------



## onegirlcreative

well, i'm going to chime in here and hopefully without the judgement, because i think enough of that has been directed towards the OP, which imo, isn't necessarily kosher.

i honestly don't care how the OP chose to word her post because to be honest, i could easily have chosen to not read it and turn the other cheek. but since the majority of you have chosen to ridicule her for her opinion (regardless of how she's choosing to word it) just shows the anger on this forum, which for me, is sad.

i always thought this forum was about openness and acceptance. so just because she didn't come straight out and word it properly, does that make her a bad person? no. it just makes her honest, that's all. if it angers you, go to another thread and move on.

i have never ever judged anybody for choosing to get breast implants. in fact, i have many friends who have chosen to do so, and i don't judge them one bit. for me, as long as they're happy, that's what makes me happy.

however, that being said, i personally would rather have a breast reduction then have breast implants.

even though i am now a size D cup, i grew up being an A or B cup my entire life until i had a baby and breast fed. go figure. most people lose their breast size after babies, but for me, they got bigger. i honestly hate them and think they're nothing but a nuisance. thankfully, my husband would hate it if i got implants and has never suggested otherwise (before they grew to a size D, because he married me as a size B). only because for my personal opinion, i don't let my breast size define me. but that also doesn't mean that a woman who chooses to get implants lets them define her either, it just means that she wants them to make her happy, regardless of the reason.

BUT&#8212;and that's a big but here&#8212;i would give anything to get a tummy tuck. ever since i had my daughter i can't get rid of my stomach. i try and try, but it's still there. i hate it. so in a way, i guess what i'm saying is, i don't judge anybody for wanting to have plastic surgery, but then i also don't judge someone for choosing to not believe in it either. therefore, don't judge someone because they chose to word their post a different way than we probably would. i would like to believe that what tPF is about here is acceptance and a melting pot of sorts, so we all won't have the same views on certain subjects, but we will all agree to disagree. no?


----------



## shopingisfun

Where you at where you at where you at....  Honey to each is own.  You only live once and you should be able to make the choices you want without ridiculing someone else.  Just because you are a DD now do you think it's impossible for that perfect figure to go south.  Not only that stars are getting breast implants, butt injections,  tummy tucks, etc.  You mean to tell us there's not one part of your body you would change if given the chance.  Yeah ok.  I smell B.S.


----------



## DiorDeVille

^I think we all have things we'd like to change, but each of us has a different level of pain and risk and expense we're willing to undergo to make that happen.  If I could wave a wand and have the perfect behind, I would.  If I can workout hard every day to get a perfect derriere, I will (a situation where I feel that the "expense" is worth it, but others would disagree).  If I have to put plastic in my backside - for free, even! - to create the perfect butt, I won't (but some people would feel that it was worth it for them).  

It's not worth it to me, because I think, correctly or not, that I can compensate for whatever "lack of perfection" afflicts my rearview by emphasizing my personality, other assets, and fashion choices. In doing so, I am rendering the butt implants - and their accompanying discomfort and expense and potential scarring and time demands - unnecessary.  If I didn't think I could compensate for the lack of butt perfection with my other assets - like personality, friendliness, etc.- then I would be more inclined to suck it up and deal with the pain necessary to take myself to "the next level" in terms of appearance (and appeal to others) through implants. 

I think OP's point might have been simply that its hard sometimes to understand what motivates others - women and men - to decide that the visual benefits are worth such a high cost in terms of expense, physical pain, and physical risks.  I agree that OP's wording wasn't the most neutral, but I'm curious as to whether she'd have received the same negative reception if her post occurred on a non-appearance oriented forum where there were fewer posters who had a different risk-reward set-point that led them to opt to undergo noncompulsory plastic surgery.  Regardless, its an inflammatory topic, but the responses have been enlightening and entertaining! Good to get others views on the subject.


----------



## vhdos

onegirlcreative said:


> well, i'm going to chime in here and hopefully without the judgement, because i think enough of that has been directed towards the OP, which imo, isn't necessarily kosher.
> 
> i honestly don't care how the OP chose to word her post because to be honest, i could easily have chosen to not read it and turn the other cheek. but since the majority of you have chosen to ridicule her for her opinion (regardless of how she's choosing to word it) just shows the anger on this forum, which for me, is sad.
> 
> *i always thought this forum was about openness and acceptance*. so just because she didn't come straight out and word it properly, does that make her a bad person? no. it just makes her honest, that's all. if it angers you, go to another thread and move on.
> 
> i have never ever judged anybody for choosing to get breast implants. in fact, i have many friends who have chosen to do so, and i don't judge them one bit. for me, as long as they're happy, that's what makes me happy.
> 
> however, that being said, i personally would rather have a breast reduction then have breast implants.
> 
> even though i am now a size D cup, i grew up being an A or B cup my entire life until i had a baby and breast fed. go figure. most people lose their breast size after babies, but for me, they got bigger. i honestly hate them and think they're nothing but a nuisance. thankfully, my husband would hate it if i got implants and has never suggested otherwise (before they grew to a size D, because he married me as a size B). only because for my personal opinion, i don't let my breast size define me. but that also doesn't mean that a woman who chooses to get implants lets them define her either, it just means that she wants them to make her happy, regardless of the reason.
> 
> BUT&#8212;and that's a big but here&#8212;i would give anything to get a tummy tuck. ever since i had my daughter i can't get rid of my stomach. i try and try, but it's still there. i hate it. so in a way, i guess what i'm saying is, i don't judge anybody for wanting to have plastic surgery, but then i also don't judge someone for choosing to not believe in it either. therefore, don't judge someone because they chose to word their post a different way than we probably would. i would like to believe that what tPF is about here is acceptance and a melting pot of sorts, so we all won't have the same views on certain subjects, but we will all agree to disagree. no?



You're exactly right about the bolded part.  This forum _is_ about openness and acceptance, which is why the OP was "ridiculed" as you put it.  She demonstrated absolutely no openness and acceptance in regards to women who choose to have breast augmentation.  As swank said, it's all about delivery.


----------



## Charles

I have some pretty strong opinions on this.  To be honest, I'd never date a girl with fake breasts.  My ex has saggy boobs, and it never crossed my mind that she was less attractive because of them.  Kara has rather perky, almost "perfect" C cups, and that fact doesn't make me love her more either.  I don't want to date a girl that ties her attractiveness to her boob size.  To me, the idea that people get plastic surgery only compounds the rather shallow outward beauty criteria that society has adopted.  If more girls (and guys) would simply be happy with what they are, as a whole, I think less emphasis would be placed on physical attractiveness..thus lessening the need to "fit in" by getting better looking breasts, cause no matter how you want to justify it, it is about fitting in and feeling more attractive.


----------



## Romeos

vhdos said:


> OMG!  I didn't even catch that part until I saw your post swank!  Hilarious!!!    Any foreign object placed inside the body would obviously warm up to body temperature.  That one comment took any credibility out of that article.
> And as far as men finding a "real" A-cup better than a "fake" D-cup, I just don't buy it.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are _plenty_ of men on this planet who feel that way, *but I've yet to see one look away when they see a woman with a D-cup (real or fake)*  I seriously doubt that if a man is getting "lucky" he's saying to himself, "darn, I wish these boobs were real."


Yeah, don't get me wrong, but EVEN I cannot look away when I see DD breasts, even so if they are fake! And I don't like women, honest!
It doesn't mean that I actually like them, it's just that they draw attention


----------



## Romeos

vhdos said:


> ^I don't think that there is ANYONE on this forum who is reluctant to see that small breasts are attractive.  That is quite contrary to what has been discussed.


OK, I must state that I cannot care if anyone had any plastic surgery done, I don't judge and I don't think it's my business what others do, but...

I agree that nobody said that small breasts are not attractive, but it was implied here, and it's often implied in the media.

- many people said here that if the OP had smaller chest, she would think differently. Why does anyone assume that flat chested women want bigger boobs? 
- why do people think that to have a womanly shape, big breasts are required. I have a flat chest and feel extremely womanly. Never had a problem attracting guys. Often clothes fit better which is a major advantage, too.

It's not only large breasted young women who wonders why do women go under the knife to get bigger breasts.


----------



## karmenzsofia

If we're talking size, and not the rightness or wrongness of implants, I must admit that I'm often shocked at how large some women go. Most of the time I find the end result very unattractive kuz the body and skin weren't made for those breasts and they look like balloons or bloated fried eggs _*to me*_. And I don't support girls in their teens or very early 20s getting them, especially when more often than not, they already have breasts (which takes us back to why on Earth they would do this to themselves) and will end up with watermelons. 

To me, in my world, the only reason to get implants (without getting into what Charles mentioned, which is very true and could be discussed back and forth until the end of time) is to fix some abnormality or to go from being flat up to a B or small C cup. I don't favor going larger than that, especially when it'll look and feel even faker kuz of the lack of tissue--but to each her own.


----------



## GabLVoesvuitton

vhdos said:


> The manner in which your thread was started is very confrontational and seems like it was meant to spark controversy.
> 
> You have DD's and you want to know why women want implants?  How rude of you in my opinion.  *Sounds like you're fishing for compliments*, wanting us to tell you how lovely they must be, how lucky you are, etc.  What difference does it make to you if women have implants?  Why can't you just be happy for women who have the power and the choice to do what they want with their bodies?



i agree !!


----------



## vhdos

Charles said:


> I have some pretty strong opinions on this.  To be honest, I'd never date a girl with fake breasts.  My ex has saggy boobs, and it never crossed my mind that she was less attractive because of them.  Kara has rather perky, almost "perfect" C cups, and that fact doesn't make me love her more either.  I don't want to date a girl that ties her attractiveness to her boob size.  To me, the idea that people get plastic surgery only compounds the rather shallow outward beauty criteria that society has adopted.  If more girls (and guys) would simply be happy with what they are, as a whole, I think less emphasis would be placed on physical attractiveness..thus lessening the need to "fit in" by getting better looking breasts, cause no matter how you want to justify it, it is about fitting in and feeling more attractive.



Yeah, just happens to be coincidence that your GF has "perfect" boobs, but boobs don't matter to you...I can see from your avatar that you place a fair amount of emphasis on your own physical attractiveness.  I'm sure that you'd be just as happy riding around on a moped rather than that custom chopper of yours.  Choppers are all about feeling more attractive, aren't they? (I know, I know, riding a chopper is not the same as having surgery).    
I hear this all the time from men - pretending not to care about size, but then doing a double-take at the girl in the mall with a large rack (real or fake).  Here you are talking about people being shallow, and yet you say that you would never date a girl with fake boobs.  That sounds a bit shallow to me.  And how would you even know?  It's not like it's appropriate to ask on a first date, " hey by the way, are your boobs fake?" 
I don't know of any girl that is tying her attractiveness _solely _to the size of her breasts.  It's an overall appearance thing and the motivation behind it is different for everyone.
I don't have a problem with someone who doesn't like fake boobs, but I do have a problem with someone who reduces it to such a petty level.  Breast augmentation is a life-altering (and sometimes life-threatening) decision that's just not taken that lightly.


----------



## vhdos

edithw said:


> OK, I must state that I cannot care if anyone had any plastic surgery done, I don't judge and I don't think it's my business what others do, but...
> 
> I agree that nobody said that small breasts are not attractive, but it was implied here, and it's often implied in the media.
> 
> - many people said here that if the OP had smaller chest, she would think differently. Why does anyone assume that flat chested women want bigger boobs?
> - why do people think that to have a womanly shape, big breasts are required. I have a flat chest and feel extremely womanly. Never had a problem attracting guys. Often clothes fit better which is a major advantage, too.
> 
> It's not only large breasted young women who wonders why do women go under the knife to get bigger breasts.



Yes, it's often implied in the media, but I disagree that it was implied anywhere in this thread.  The OP was claiming that she didn't understand why women get implants.  The response was that she might understand (or feel differently) if she had small boobs instead of large ones.  Not that she would feel differently as in needing/wanting to get bigger boobs, but that she might feel differently as in it's not for me, but I get where you're coming from.  KWIM?


----------



## lovebeibei

bisousx said:


> Ditto to this ^ I can imagine it'd be hard to sympathize if you have natural DD's...



haha i agree. i can imagine it'd be hard to relate. 
i have nature small boobies, hahaha 32B! i don't ever plan on getting implants. but i do see it as just a personal preference.


----------



## Charles

vhdos said:


> Yeah, just happens to be coincidence that your GF has "perfect" boobs, but boobs don't matter to you...I can see from your avatar that you place a fair amount of emphasis on your own physical attractiveness.  I'm sure that you'd be just as happy riding around on a moped rather than that custom chopper of yours.  Choppers are all about feeling more attractive, aren't they? (I know, I know, riding a chopper is not the same as having surgery).
> I hear this all the time from men - pretending not to care about size, but then doing a double-take at the girl in the mall with a large rack (real or fake).  Here you are talking about people being shallow, and yet you say that you would never date a girl with fake boobs.  That sounds a bit shallow to me.  And how would you even know?  It's not like it's appropriate to ask on a first date, " hey by the way, are your boobs fake?"
> I don't know of any girl that is tying her attractiveness _solely _to the size of her breasts.  It's an overall appearance thing and the motivation behind it is different for everyone.
> I don't have a problem with someone who doesn't like fake boobs, but I do have a problem with someone who reduces it to such a petty level.  Breast augmentation is a life-altering (and sometimes life-threatening) decision that's just not taken that lightly.



Come on!  Those are probably some of the worst analogies you've used.

My bike has nothing to do with attractiveness.  I had a sport bike prior to my Harley, but I didn't care for the riding position, nor the type of attention it got.  I bought my Harley cause I like to ride, not be looked at.  My current bike is more comfortable, in addition to that, I enjoy the history and legend involved with the company.  I also didn't get surgery to own a motorcycle.
Looking at girls with DD's...yeah, they look like circus acts, that's why I look, not cause I'm turned on.
As for me being shallow...what does me not wanting to date a girl who's worried so much about her appearance that she gets a surgical procedure to alter that appearance?  I prefer girls who are secure in themselves and don't need to meet a certain societal ideal in order to feel good about themselves.  I think that's rather far from shallow, rather having standards.  Would you date a man who was so worried about his penis size that he got an enlargement?
How am I reducing it to a petty level?  I'm talking girls that get breast augmentation "just because", no cancer survivors, etc.


----------



## gillianna

So many interesting views on this subject.  Every person has the right to decide what they want to do to their body.  I do have to laugh because I am not a small size and would love to be smaller in the chest area. 
One can also ask a question on why someone would get a tattoo??? Why would someone put ink on their body?  For what purpose???  So no matter what someone may do with their appearance there are others who will never understand.  

I say live and let live.


----------



## Irishgal

*Charles I know you are a voice of one, and this is a bit OT, but what do men overall think of women who have clearly had PS and altered their faces? specifically, I see older women, say in their late 40's and 50's who have done quite a lot, and they look, well, odd and perhaps, kind of sad..or something. I am totally for enhancing your looks, but in a subtle fashion, not the pulled and pinched look. What say you?

Oh and let me add, I know that the age range I mentioned is much older than you are..but just wanted your overall read on this..*


----------



## vhdos

Oh Charles, all in good fun.  You can't honestly think that I'm comparing motorcycles to surgery.  I know that riding a motorcycle is no more of a comparison than wearing make-up is to having surgery.  I'm just saying that we all have ways of making ourselves seem more attractive.  Some are obviously more extreme than others.  And as far as your bike is concerned, it's difficult to tell in the picture, but it looks pretty custom to me.  All that chrome for a "more comfortable riding position?"  Chicks dig bikes.  I met my DH while he was riding a kick-ass Harley.  I'd be lying if I said it wasn't hot.
Oh, and yes, I'd consider dating a guy with a penis enlargement.  I suppose unless he had that fact tattooed across his forehead, how would I even know?  As long as it functions properly, what difference does it make?


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

Irishgal said:


> *Charles I know you are a voice of one, and this is a bit OT, but what do men overall think of women who have clearly had PS and altered their faces? specifically, I see older women, say in their late 40's and 50's who have done quite a lot, and they look, well, odd and perhaps, kind of sad..or something. I am totally for enhancing your looks, but in a subtle fashion, not the pulled and pinched look. What say you?
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I think he says he's in his 30's &
> dates a gal in her 20's. Ask a guy who's dating women in this age range what they think, that would give you a better control group.
> 
> There is alot of bad PS in the world. I know women who've had some. But upon questioning them, It was always about how much they spent on it. They were trying to be cheap. The worst I've ever seen was a couple of gals that went to Costa Rica.
> 
> You get what you pay for, especially when it comes to doctors & plastic surgery.*


----------



## onegirlcreative

Charles said:


> I have some pretty strong opinions on this.  To be honest, I'd never date a girl with fake breasts.  My ex has saggy boobs, and it never crossed my mind that she was less attractive because of them.  Kara has rather perky, almost "perfect" C cups, and that fact doesn't make me love her more either.  I don't want to date a girl that ties her attractiveness to her boob size.  To me, the idea that people get plastic surgery only compounds the rather shallow outward beauty criteria that society has adopted.  If more girls (and guys) would simply be happy with what they are, as a whole, I think less emphasis would be placed on physical attractiveness..thus lessening the need to "fit in" by getting better looking breasts, cause no matter how you want to justify it, it is about fitting in and feeling more attractive.


----------



## onegirlcreative

vhdos said:


> You're exactly right about the bolded part.  This forum _is_ about openness and acceptance, which is why the OP was "ridiculed" as you put it.  She demonstrated absolutely no openness and acceptance in regards to women who choose to have breast augmentation.  As swank said, it's all about delivery.



see, i still disagree. i could care less how she worded it because let's face it, her intentions were still the same. what does it matter if she worded it all flowery and pretty as opposed to how she worded it? straight to the point. aren't we all adults on here? why do we need someone to sugar coat anything?

i like that she was blunt and didn't beat around the bush.

it is what it is, and the fact that she worded it in a specific way is irrelevant, imo.


----------



## onegirlcreative

edithw said:


> OK, I must state that I cannot care if anyone had any plastic surgery done, I don't judge and I don't think it's my business what others do, but...
> 
> I agree that nobody said that small breasts are not attractive, but it was implied here, and it's often implied in the media.
> 
> *- many people said here that if the OP had smaller chest, she would think differently. Why does anyone assume that flat chested women want bigger boobs? *
> - why do people think that to have a womanly shape, big breasts are required. I have a flat chest and feel extremely womanly. Never had a problem attracting guys. Often clothes fit better which is a major advantage, too.
> 
> It's not only large breasted young women who wonders why do women go under the knife to get bigger breasts.



precisely. when i was an A/B cup, i never ever wanted bigger boobs. i liked my smaller chest, it was much easier to fit into blouses, too. now that i'm a size D, as confirmed, i hate them.


----------



## vhdos

onegirlcreative said:


> see, i still disagree. i could care less how she worded it because let's face it, her intentions were still the same. what does it matter if she worded it all flowery and pretty as opposed to how she worded it? straight to the point. aren't we all adults on here? why do we need someone to sugar coat anything?
> 
> i like that she was blunt and didn't beat around the bush.
> 
> it is what it is, and the fact that she worded it in a specific way is irrelevant, imo.



Well, delivery may be irrelevant to you, but it matters to many of us and more importantly, the mods.  We have all seen how improper delivery can get you kicked off the forum in extreme cases.  I agree with you about not beating around the bush, but that was just not the case here.  It's one thing to be direct and to the point, it's another to be judgmental...


----------



## Charles

Irishgal said:


> *Charles* I know you are a voice of one, and this is a bit OT, but what do men overall think of women who have clearly had PS and altered their faces? specifically, I see older women, say in their late 40's and 50's who have done quite a lot, and they look, well, odd and perhaps, kind of sad..or something. I am totally for enhancing your looks, but in a subtle fashion, not the pulled and pinched look. What say you?
> 
> Oh and let me add, I know that the age range I mentioned is much older than you are..but just wanted your overall read on this..



I'm on an Audi forum too.  The majority of the guys over there have 0 problems with fakes.  It really depends on the guy.  I think I'm in the minority in that I'd rather not date a girl who's had work done.  

I'm working with what God gave me.  When I was young, I was teased and made fun of.  Trust me, I was no where near being cool when I was 12-17, so I had a lot of insecurities to overcome, but I feel that I tried to do it by focusing on why those insecurities were there, and when I took a look, they were there because I worried too much about fitting in and what other people thought of me.  Once I stopped caring how people viewed me (and yes, I'll be honest, I still care somewhat.  I am human) things got better.  I'd never get PS, even though I hate that all the beer I love to drink goes right to my belly, or that I have a crooked nose, or that I think my wrists are abnormally skinny.  That's who I am...take me or leave me.



vhdos said:


> Oh Charles, all in good fun.  You can't honestly think that I'm comparing motorcycles to surgery.  I know that riding a motorcycle is no more of a comparison than wearing make-up is to having surgery.  I'm just saying that we all have ways of making ourselves seem more attractive.  Some are obviously more extreme than others.  And as far as your bike is concerned, it's difficult to tell in the picture, but it looks pretty custom to me.  All that chrome for a "more comfortable riding position?"  Chicks dig bikes.  I met my DH while he was riding a kick-ass Harley.  I'd be lying if I said it wasn't hot.
> Oh, and yes, I'd consider dating a guy with a penis enlargement.  I suppose unless he had that fact tattooed across his forehead, how would I even know?  As long as it functions properly, what difference does it make?



Exactly...and I think PS is a bit too extreme.    Hell, I don't even like Kara wearing makeup.  I think she's beautiful right when she wakes up.
As for the guy...it makes a difference cause he felt the need to get surgery for a bigger penis.  You don't feel there might be some issues that he's dealing with?  And yeah, it's a bit different cause I feel women are put under the microscope more, but like I said, you can try to justify it all you want...women get PS so they can fit in with what they feel society has deemed as attractive.  If smaller breasts were considered attractive, women would be getting breast reductions.  It all boils down to some form of insecurity.  I prefer to date girls who don't want to go to those extremes.  It doesn't mean I think girls who've gotten PS are stupid or dumb.  I know some really cool chicks who have PS.  I just think the kind of girl I'm looking for, wouldn't have PS done...if that makes sense.
And BTW, I hate chrome.  I'm going for an old school look on my bike.  Since I can remember, I've always liked hot rods and bikes from the 50's and 60's, and that was way before my crotch got all tickly thinking about cute girls.  If girls think my bike is hot...I guess that's a positive side effect.


----------



## vhdos

Charles said:


> I'm on an Audi forum too.  The majority of the guys over there have 0 problems with fakes.  It really depends on the guy.  I think I'm in the minority in that I'd rather not date a girl who's had work done.
> 
> I'm working with what God gave me.  When I was young, I was teased and made fun of.  Trust me, I was no where near being cool when I was 12-17, so I had a lot of insecurities to overcome, but I feel that I tried to do it by focusing on why those insecurities were there, and when I took a look, they were there because I worried too much about fitting in and what other people thought of me.  Once I stopped caring how people viewed me (and yes, I'll be honest, I still care somewhat.  I am human) things got better.  I'd never get PS, even though I hate that all the beer I love to drink goes right to my belly, or that I have a crooked nose, or that I think my wrists are abnormally skinny.  That's who I am...take me or leave me.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...and I think PS is a bit too extreme.    Hell, I don't even like Kara wearing makeup.  I think she's beautiful right when she wakes up.
> *As for the guy...it makes a difference cause he felt the need to get surgery for a bigger penis*.*  You don't feel there might be some issues that he's dealing with? * And yeah, it's a bit different cause I feel women are put under the microscope more, but like I said, you can try to justify it all you want...women get PS so they can fit in with what they feel society has deemed as attractive.  If smaller breasts were considered attractive, women would be getting breast reductions.  It all boils down to some form of insecurity.  I prefer to date girls who don't want to go to those extremes.  It doesn't mean I think girls who've gotten PS are stupid or dumb.  I know some really cool chicks who have PS.  I just think the kind of girl I'm looking for, wouldn't have PS done...if that makes sense.
> And BTW, I hate chrome.  I'm going for an old school look on my bike.  Since I can remember, I've always liked hot rods and bikes from the 50's and 60's, and that was way before my crotch got all tickly thinking about cute girls.  If girls think my bike is hot...I guess that's a positive side effect.



What's the big deal with issues?  We _all _have issues of one kind or another.  We can choose to take it or leave it as you say, but no one is perfect.


----------



## Charles

Again...we're dealing with severity here.  Sure, we all have issues, but some of us are more functional and don't let our issues rule our lives too much...others are locked up in psych wards.  Most guys, if they're honest, and not hung like a porn star, has some insecurity with their size, and a lot of them have thought about ways to make it bigger, but to actually get surgery done for that??  Typically, I would think a male that would go to the extreme of getting a penis enlargement has issues that are a bit more involved than someone who needs to have the volume of their stereo on an even number (don't judge!!  ).  If I were a girl, I'd be worried about that.


----------



## MySharona

OTOH ... 

I live in the midwest and I don't understand why anyone on this planet would want reduction surgery unless they have a condition where their chests actually hit the floor when they're standing up.

It has always been ridiculous to me. I'm a 36 AAAA all natural NOTHING REMOVED and I've never had kids. I'm old enough to be wiser. I WILL NEVER GET REDUCTION.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

Personally I am not into any form of cosmetic surgery at all BUT I'm well OK with it if others want to do it. If it makes them feel better about themselves and gives more confidence, what's the problem?? (I'd just like to say that I am not perfect by any means, and heck I'll go for anything that gives me a boost - just not under a knife , and at that expense!)

All I know is that my boobs expanded at an incredible rate during and after pregnancy going from a 'B' to a 'DD' and I personally couldn't care less (but I wouldn't pass the 'pencil test' - just...). If I didn't feel OK about it, it would worry at me like crazy.

I am no better or worse than anybody else, but I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for doing what they do with them. Whatever works and whatever makes you feel happy. Don't knock the knockers!!


----------



## vhdos

Charles said:


> Again...we're dealing with severity here.  Sure, we all have issues, but some of us are more functional and don't let our issues rule our lives too much...others are locked up in psych wards.  Most guys, if they're honest, and not hung like a porn star, has some insecurity with their size, and a lot of them have thought about ways to make it bigger, but to actually get surgery done for that??  Typically, I would think a male that would go to the extreme of getting a penis enlargement has issues that are a bit more involved than someone who needs to have the volume of their stereo on an even number (don't judge!!  ).  If I were a girl, I'd be worried about that.



But your missing the part where the "problem" is fixed.  If a guy had issues because he had a small penis, had surgery to make it larger, then in theory, the issues go away.  Obviously, this is not always the case, but sometimes it really does work that way.  I have several friends who had "issues" because they were not happy with their breasts (most of them after having children).  They had breast lifts and/or implants and presto, problem solved and issues resolved. I don't see someone who's chosen to have plastic surgery as someone who's emotionally damaged beyond repair.


----------



## karmenzsofia

Regardless of the origin and expression of such self-image issues among men and women, medically speaking you cannot compare breast augmentation surgery with penis enlargement surgery. Not only is the second one way more complicated and riskier than the first one, but the dissatisfaction rate among men who have undergone that procedure is super high--up to 70% per recent studies. The vast majority of women who have gotten implants have done so without complications and report being extremely satisfied. Penis enlargement surgery would be way more popular (sought by men with so-called penis-size issues and prescribed and/or approved by doctors) if men had a better chance at obtaining satisfactory results--that is, longer penises--without running a significant risk of deforming their beloved wieners and losing their ability to have erections.


----------



## vhdos

Excellent point karmenzsofia!!!  It's amazing that medical technology still does not have the ability to successfully bless us with porn-sized manhood


----------



## karmenzsofia

It's kinda ironic...isn't it?


----------



## vhdos

^yes it is!


----------



## Charles

The point wasn't to compare the actual procedures, rather the motivation behind them both.
And sure, getting a procedure _might_ help your insecurities, but why should you need to get a surgery when you can just try to be happy with who you are?  That's my point.  If you're insecure over your breasts, and you seek therapy, do you really think a therapist will encourage you to get PS, or would he rather address the root causes of why you feel the need to meet a certain image?  By getting PS, you're not addressing the root causes, you're basically putting a band aid on.  In the long run, you still have the insecurities, only they won't manifest themselves under the guise of small breasts.


----------



## Beach Bum

^I dont think PS means a person is INSECURE at all in MANY cases.
Take me,....I like myself and while I always had tiny boobs.I had an opportunity to get mine done for a deal from a friend of the families.He is a VERY good PS.I decided t do it 3 yrs ago and i LOVE the result.Mine look natural.not too big..and im HAPPIER WITH boobs..BUT i wasnt unhappy with small boobs either...I just preferred them when i got them bigger.WHen we have kids,they shrink up.I felt MORE FAKE wearing padded bikinis...just to fill them in.
so b careful when u generalize people with PS as people with ISSUES....hehehe.This "ISSUE" happens to look DARNED good in bikinis now..LOL!


----------



## Raven05

Jill said:


> ^I dont think PS means a person is INSECURE at all in MANY cases.
> Take me,....I like myself and while I always had tiny boobs.I had an opportunity to get mine done for a deal from a friend of the families.He is a VERY good PS.I decided t do it 3 yrs ago and i LOVE the result.Mine look natural.not too big..and im HAPPIER WITH boobs..BUT i wasnt unhappy with small boobs either...I just preferred them when i got them bigger.WHen we have kids,they shrink up.I felt MORE FAKE wearing padded bikinis...just to fill them in.
> so b careful when u generalize people with PS as people with ISSUES....hehehe.This "ISSUE" happens to look DARNED good in bikinis now..LOL!


 
Very well said, I agree, I had very small breasts, a 12AA, I am 32 and due to heaps of exercising, I kept losing breast tissue, I wasn't unhappy with my small boobs, but, I had the opportunity to get bigger breast, which also has helped me look more proportioned (I am 170cm and my body looked out of whack).  I LOVE my new boobs, I had the operation about 4 months ago, I am very happy with the result, they look very real, they aren't huge and I also look great in a bikini


----------



## vhdos

I really don't get all this emphasis on insecurities Charles.  I don't know a single person who doesn't have insecurities about one thing or another.  We could _all_ fix or improve something that makes us feel insecure, but at the end of the day, is any one of us going to feel _completely_ happy, satisfied, and fulfilled in absolutely every aspect of our lives???  The answer is no.  If getting a boob job makes someone feel like a better, happier person, then rock on!


----------



## LOREBUNDE

I think the whole topic of the thread is getting off track. I took it just to mean why does every women feel like she needs to have bigger boobs and not be happy with what she has?  I didn't take it as being insecure or having to explain why she got implants.  I read it to mean why does she feel that bigger boobs are prettier?  Example she used Pink - who is small chested and sexy.  Pink is a lot sexier than most woman with bigger breasts.  It's all in the way you feel about yourself.  I think now, woman feel that w/o big breasts they are not attractive and shouldn't feel that way.  I agree some woman want/need after childbirth etc.  I think what the OP meant is why young, pretty woman, with perfectly perfect breasts feel the need to get them.


----------



## Swanky

I've been here a long time, and I personally think that had she been less judgmental about it, she'd have received FAR more less defensive responses.  Her post was very critical and you get what you give.
Give some snark, expect some back.



DiorDeVille said:


> I think OP's point might have been simply that its hard sometimes to understand what motivates others - women and men - to decide that the visual benefits are worth such a high cost in terms of expense, physical pain, and physical risks.  I agree that OP's wording wasn't the most neutral, but I'm curious as to whether she'd have received the same negative reception if her post occurred on a non-appearance oriented forum where there were fewer posters who had a different risk-reward set-point that led them to opt to undergo noncompulsory plastic surgery.  Regardless, its an inflammatory topic, but the responses have been enlightening and entertaining! Good to get others views on the subject.


----------



## Swanky

WHAT!? LOL! How would you even know? Is that one of those preliminary questions?
"Do you have implants? I want to ask you out but it's against my rules to date hotties w/ implants."






Charles said:


> I have some pretty strong opinions on this.  To be honest, I'd never date a girl with fake breasts.  My ex has saggy boobs, and it never crossed my mind that she was less attractive because of them.  Kara has rather perky, almost "perfect" C cups, and that fact doesn't make me love her more either.  I don't want to date a girl that ties her attractiveness to her boob size.  To me, the idea that people get plastic surgery only compounds the rather shallow outward beauty criteria that society has adopted.  If more girls (and guys) would simply be happy with what they are, as a whole, I think less emphasis would be placed on physical attractiveness..thus lessening the need to "fit in" by getting better looking breasts, cause no matter how you want to justify it, it is about fitting in and feeling more attractive.



I don't personally know anyone who ties beauty to breast size 

No one could see that mine had successfully nourished 3 gorgeous kiddos and were fit for national Geographic.  You could not see it in clothing. . . 
it was about how *I* wanted to be comfortable in clothing and bras and get back a little of what I lost during a twin pregnancy/nursings.
had zero to do w/ society.  You'd never know by seeing me in a mall if I had implants or not.  Its not always about fitting in or looking for physically beautiful to others.
Funny story, and this is completely true:
about a week after I delivered my twins I was tandem nursing them on my bed.  My DD was 3 yr 3 mos then and walked in and said "I didn't know you fed them form your belly button!"


LMBO!  
When you're used to big perky ta tas and they change that much after pregnancies and nursings it feels good to get it back if you want.


----------



## QB Handbags

Of course you don't get it. You're in your 20's with a big rack. You probably get more attention than you want from all the wrong guys. Try getting any attention when you're older or just flat. The boobs aren't my only asset but I need something to help open the door for me any many others. You've had those doors opened for you since you were what...15? You'll never understand it. Why do brunettes try being blonde at some point? It's the same idea. 

The best part is 2 kids and 15 yrs from now mine will still outshine yours, ha.


----------



## HaileyG

fake breasts are ... fake.

It really depends on the person what they want to do but I would do it. But I have seen woman without breasts because of cancer and other stuff and for those women I do believe it's a good option. Or a woman with really small and flat chest (like a deflated balloon... seriously)


----------



## HauteMama

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Funny story, and this is completely true:
> about a week after I delivered my twins I was tandem nursing them on my bed. My DD was 3 yr 3 mos then and walked in and said "I didn't know you fed them form your belly button!"
> 
> 
> LMBO!


 
:lolots:


----------



## Mahina

Eh, I am contemplating getting a implants. So?


----------



## Ellie Mae

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Funny story, and this is completely true:
> about a week after I delivered my twins I was tandem nursing them on my bed.  My DD was 3 yr 3 mos then and walked in and said "I didn't know you fed them from your belly button!"
> 
> 
> LMBO!



  Best reason yet!!!!!!


----------



## Swanky

pretty humbling


----------



## Charles

vhdos said:


> I really don't get all this emphasis on insecurities Charles.  I don't know a single person who doesn't have insecurities about one thing or another.  We could _all_ fix or improve something that makes us feel insecure, but at the end of the day, is any one of us going to feel _completely_ happy, satisfied, and fulfilled in absolutely every aspect of our lives???  The answer is no.  If getting a boob job makes someone feel like a better, happier person, then rock on!



I'm not following your point here.  Typically, women get breast enlargements cause of insecurity, yes?  That's where my emphasis comes from.  And yes, I already admitted that we all have insecurities. I don't agree with handling those insecurities with surgery.  You seem to keep overlooking that and retorting with the fact that we all have insecurities and basically saying that whatever it takes to get over them is cool with you.  Would you be OK with someone getting a face transplant to try to look more like a model?  How far are you willing to go and be OK with it? Is there a line for you?



Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> WHAT!? LOL! How would you even know? Is that one of those preliminary questions?
> "Do you have implants? I want to ask you out but it's against my rules to date hotties w/ implants."



Of course not, and to be honest, I've only gone out with a couple of girls who had fake breasts...that I knew of.  After getting to know them, they didn't seem like the kind of girl I wanted to continue dating, but that was due more to their personality..and yes, they did seem to be a bit more shallow.  Anecdotal, I know.




Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I don't personally know anyone who ties beauty to breast size



Ok...your point?  You're going to tell me that a lot of people don't base womens' worth and beauty on their breast size?  How many porn mags are specific to women with big breasts?  How many are specific to women with small breasts??



Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> No one could see that mine had successfully nourished 3 gorgeous kiddos and were fit for national Geographic. You could not see it in clothing. . .
> it was about how *I* wanted to be comfortable in clothing and bras and get back a little of what I lost during a twin pregnancy/nursings.



And what was it you lost during pregnancy?


Jill, I think you're def in the minority as to the reason behind getting PS.

Let me just clear up what I'm saying.  Sure, there are some women who might get PS just cause...it was free or whatever.  However, my concern is with the women who get it to deal with insecurities that have resulted in trying to attain a certain image that's been encouraged and almost enforced by the media and society.  Instead of saying "You know what, I don't need to have larger breasts to fit an image, I'm going to be who I am and love me", they decide to cut themselves and surgically alter themselves.  I find that troubling.  And to be honest, I would have thought more women would be taking my side and try to take control of how women are viewed and try to re-define that image by being against PS...burn some bras or something


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Charles said:


> How many porn mags are specific to women with big breasts?  *How many are specific to women with small breasts??*



umm...there are a couple that I know of.  One is/was called "Tiny Tops".  Not kidding.


----------



## Leah411

Charles said:


> I'm not following your point here.* Typically, women get breast enlargements cause of insecurity, yes?* That's where my emphasis comes from. And yes, I already admitted that we all have insecurities. I don't agree with handling those insecurities with surgery. You seem to keep overlooking that and retorting with the fact that we all have insecurities and basically saying that whatever it takes to get over them is cool with you. Would you be OK with someone getting a face transplant to try to look more like a model? How far are you willing to go and be OK with it? Is there a line for you?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, and to be honest, I've only gone out with a couple of girls who had fake breasts...that I knew of. After getting to know them, they didn't seem like the kind of girl I wanted to continue dating, but that was due more to their personality..and yes, they did seem to be a bit more shallow. Anecdotal, I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...your point? You're going to tell me that a lot of people don't base womens' worth and beauty on their breast size? How many porn mags are specific to women with big breasts? How many are specific to women with small breasts??
> 
> 
> 
> And what was it you lost during pregnancy?
> 
> 
> Jill, I think you're def in the minority as to the reason behind getting PS.
> 
> Let me just clear up what I'm saying. Sure, there are some women who might get PS just cause...it was free or whatever. However, my concern is with the women who get it to deal with insecurities that have resulted in trying to attain a certain image that's been encouraged and almost enforced by the media and society. Instead of saying "You know what, I don't need to have larger breasts to fit an image, I'm going to be who I am and love me", they decide to cut themselves and surgically alter themselves. I find that troubling. And to be honest, I would have thought more women would be taking my side and try to take control of how women are viewed and try to re-define that image by being against PS...burn some bras or something


 
No, Charles..."most" women don't get implants because of "insecurity".  That's YOUR bias, YOUR projection.   The women on this thread have been very clear why they got implants and if you would listen with an open mind instead of being so intent of being right, you would see that.  But you've already decided in your mind why women get implants, and it looks like no matter how many women tell you differently, you don't want to let go of your pre-conception.

Are there SOME women who turn to plastic surgery because of some sort of insecurity?  Probably.  A good plastic surgeon recognizes those who are doing it for unhealthy reasons and takes appropriate action.  But to assume that the only or major reason women get implants is because of insecurity is simply ludicrous.

Swanky and the others have been very clear about why they chose implants.  It is very clear that insecurity was not part of it at all.

When are men going to understand that it's not all about THEM?  SOME women get big boobs to attract men, but those women have a lot more problems than just getting implants.

Maybe you can't understand because you don't have breasts.  But the way you come across is a little arrogant...like you know better.  Just because you are one of very few guys hanging out on a purse forum, doesn't make you any kind of expert on women.   Perhaps if you listened to the women on this thread with an open mind, rather than with the need to be right....you might learn a thing or two.

I totally get the points Swanky and others are trying to make.  Their choice to get implants has NOTHING to do with what size breasts are popular with men or what society's message is...and it sure as hell has nothing to do with "insecurity".  

Do you ever look in a mirror?  Do you style your hair? Cut your hair?  Or even comb it?  Do you work out to stay in shape?  Do you make choices about what clothes you put on? Wear one color over another because it makes you look better?  EVERYONE does SOMETHING in order to like what they see in the mirror.  Hair...makeup...clothes...exercise....the list is endless.  Sure, plastic surgery is a bigger step than those things...but it's for the same goal.  Wanting bigger breasts...or not droopy breasts....or a smaller nose...or whatever...it's just one's personal preference.  If someone wants to bring their breasts back to their pre-nursing state, why not?  If someone wants to make their breasts smaller, why not? It's not an insecurity thing at all.

You seem very stuck on there being one reason and one reason only for women to get implants.  You make sweeping judgments on the type of woman who would choose implants, instead of understanding these are individuals who are making choices for THEIR bodies and THEIR lives. You would be offended if someone pre-judged you because of the way you look or the choices you make, but it's okay to judge women just because they got implants?

You've had a thread full of women telling you the REAL reasons...going back to their pre-nursing state, for example...they're NOT getting implants to "fit an image"....but you're not hearing them.  They are telling you truth...but you don't want to hear it.

You don't like implants?  Don't get them.


----------



## KristyDarling

I completely agree with you, Leah. Excellent post. I don't have implants but I had a tummy tuck after 2 babies. This may be shocking to some but I did NOT have it done due to "insecurity." It seems that some people have grossly generalized about women who've had PS and seem intent on being "right" about it for some reason. But, there is no right answer. Everyone's reasons for having PS are utterly unique, and as varied as their personalities. It's too pat to presume that everyone getting PS is insecure or wants to fit an image, or that simply coming to terms psychologically with one's physical appearance should be everyone's "magic bullet." We humans are a lot more complex than that.   Many, if not MOST, PS patients are already confident and happy to begin with. 

 I had a tummy tuck based on the fact that I plain ole didn't LIKE having a big, floppy pancake of slack, wrinkled, and stretched-marked skin hanging over my pubic bone like an apron. The rest of me was slim and 8 lbs lighter than my pre-pregnancy weight, but that extra skin made it hard for me to fit into clothes properly. And it was very unsightly for me to look at. My husband actually didn't care one whit about my belly, so it was not about pleasing my man or society at large, but rather, it was about something exceedingly simple called *personal preference.* Yes, it CAN be as simple as that! I was a happy girl...both with AND without the extra belly skin. I just preferred to be without it!  

And Charles, taking control of my appearance and getting PS to rid me of my "apron" WAS girl power.  I am a strong woman who happens to dislike my post-baby belly. So I took care of it! 

*It's true that some people have PS for questionable reasons, and those are the people who would benefit from some deep introspection about potential self-esteem issues. But to assume that EVERYONE who gets PS is grappling with deep-seated insecurities or trying to fit into a certain image is grossly generalizing.* Everyone deals with their own appearance in their own unique way. If you don't care that you have tiny boobs or large boobs or whatever...great! Don't get PS. But if you do care and you'd rather do something about it, research your surgeon like crazy, get fully informed, and make sure you will be safe and well taken care of.


----------



## elkington

LOREBUNDE said:


> I think the whole topic of the thread is getting off track. I took it just to mean why does every women feel like she needs to have bigger boobs and not be happy with what she has?  I didn't take it as being insecure or having to explain why she got implants.  I read it to mean why does she feel that bigger boobs are prettier?  Example she used Pink - who is small chested and sexy.  Pink is a lot sexier than most woman with bigger breasts.  It's all in the way you feel about yourself.  I think now, woman feel that w/o big breasts they are not attractive and shouldn't feel that way.  *I agree some woman want/need after childbirth etc.  I think what the OP meant is why young, pretty woman, with perfectly perfect breasts feel the need to get them.*



very good post! and concerning the bold part: that's what i don't understand either. women who do have beautiful breast but are brainwashed by the media image to get bigger ones just because bigger seems better  i'm a size B and never felt the urge to get bigger breasts... (but i haven'T had children yet) and i have to admit that i always thought that this unhealthy media image and insecurity are the only or main reasons for women to get implants, but in this thread a few very interesting opinions and other reasons were voiced and now i know better!


----------



## bisousx

edithw said:


> OK, I must state that I cannot care if anyone had any plastic surgery done, I don't judge and I don't think it's my business what others do, but...
> 
> I agree that nobody said that small breasts are not attractive, but it was implied here, and it's often implied in the media.
> 
> - *many people said here that if the OP had smaller chest, she would think differently. Why does anyone assume that flat chested women want bigger boobs? *
> - why do people think that to have a womanly shape, big breasts are required. I have a flat chest and feel extremely womanly. Never had a problem attracting guys. Often clothes fit better which is a major advantage, too.
> 
> It's not only large breasted young women who wonders why do women go under the knife to get bigger breasts.



I have small boobs, and don't necessarily want bigger ones. I can't remember a time where I wished mine were bigger. Nevertheless, I still think it's a bit ridiculous that anyone in this day and age, especially a natural DD, wants to preach about PS. For the obvious reasons.


----------



## vhdos

It seems to be a reoccurring theme with you Charles - reducing things to female insecurity.  From relationship troubles to plastic surgery, your answer often seems to be female insecurity.  Perhaps, as another poster suggested, you are projecting your own insecurities unto women?
I don't know how you make the jump from breast augmentation to a face transplant?  As if breast augmentation is that extreme in this day and age.  Hundreds of thousands of BA's are preformed each year, most with positive results.  As if all of those who get a BA are so riddled with insecurity that the next plausible step to their happiness is having a face transplant.  Again, most of the women I know are normal, happy women.  They just wanted a little more.  Not every woman who has a BA is interested in giant, look-at-me boobs. 
And if you want to keep railing on the fact that women are insecure, then lets address _male_ insecurity.  I know plenty of insecure men who are into fast cars, motorcycles, etc. to fill that void.  Now am I saying that _all_ men who are into those things are insecure?  Absolutely not. But we've all seen that guy, popping a  wheelie on his crotch rocket as soon as the traffic light turns green.  My take on it?  He's insecure.  Perhaps he should get some therapy to get to the root of the problem instead of risking life & limb on his bike?


----------



## Charles

Leah411 said:


> No, Charles..."most" women don't get implants because of "insecurity". That's YOUR bias, YOUR projection. The women on this thread have been very clear why they got implants and if you would listen with an open mind instead of being so intent of being right, you would see that. But you've already decided in your mind why women get implants, and it looks like no matter how many women tell you differently, you don't want to let go of your pre-conception.
> 
> Are there SOME women who turn to plastic surgery because of some sort of insecurity? Probably. A good plastic surgeon recognizes those who are doing it for unhealthy reasons and takes appropriate action. But to assume that the only or major reason women get implants is because of insecurity is simply ludicrous.
> 
> Swanky and the others have been very clear about why they chose implants. It is very clear that insecurity was not part of it at all.
> 
> When are men going to understand that it's not all about THEM? SOME women get big boobs to attract men, but those women have a lot more problems than just getting implants.
> 
> Maybe you can't understand because you don't have breasts. But the way you come across is a little arrogant...like you know better. Just because you are one of very few guys hanging out on a purse forum, doesn't make you any kind of expert on women. Perhaps if you listened to the women on this thread with an open mind, rather than with the need to be right....you might learn a thing or two.
> 
> I totally get the points Swanky and others are trying to make. Their choice to get implants has NOTHING to do with what size breasts are popular with men or what society's message is...and it sure as hell has nothing to do with "insecurity".
> 
> Do you ever look in a mirror? Do you style your hair? Cut your hair? Or even comb it? Do you work out to stay in shape? Do you make choices about what clothes you put on? Wear one color over another because it makes you look better? EVERYONE does SOMETHING in order to like what they see in the mirror. Hair...makeup...clothes...exercise....the list is endless. Sure, plastic surgery is a bigger step than those things...but it's for the same goal. Wanting bigger breasts...or not droopy breasts....or a smaller nose...or whatever...it's just one's personal preference. If someone wants to bring their breasts back to their pre-nursing state, why not? If someone wants to make their breasts smaller, why not? It's not an insecurity thing at all.
> 
> You seem very stuck on there being one reason and one reason only for women to get implants. You make sweeping judgments on the type of woman who would choose implants, instead of understanding these are individuals who are making choices for THEIR bodies and THEIR lives. You would be offended if someone pre-judged you because of the way you look or the choices you make, but it's okay to judge women just because they got implants?
> 
> You've had a thread full of women telling you the REAL reasons...going back to their pre-nursing state, for example...they're NOT getting implants to "fit an image"....but you're not hearing them. They are telling you truth...but you don't want to hear it.
> 
> You don't like implants?  Don't get them.


 
 Unfortunately, you're the one who's wrong.  Almost every reason given by the women in this thread is based in insecurity.  PERIOD.  Even in your own response to me, trying to negate the insecurity reason, you cite specific things women and men do out of insecurity.  So in essence, you're contradicting yourself and proving my point.  This has nothing to do with me projecting my insecurities, it comes from most women trying to justify the reasons they got a BA.  Let's break it down...

  - Women getting BA's to get back to pre-nursing stage.  Why?  Why would it matter for a woman to have perky boobs?  It's cause that's what's considered attractive.  Am I wrong?
  - Women getting BA's for themselves, not for men.  Ok, why?  Why would a woman want to get bigger, perkier, more shapely breasts?  Cause that's what society has deemed as attractive.  Am I wrong?
  - Your arguments about styling hair or dressing a certain way.  Why would someone do that?  To fit in with a certain image they find attractive.  Why try to meet that image?  Cause you feel less attractive when you don't.  Am I wrong?

 ALL of those reasons are rooted in insecurity, and if you can't see that, I'm not sure what to tell you.  If you care about how you look, you have insecurities, correct?  By getting a BA, you're getting a surgical procedure to help meet a certain look in order to feel better about yourself, correct?  Again, that is insecurity.  If you disagree, specifically explain how I'm incorrect.
 As I've stated before, I know girls who've gotten PS and are great people.  I don't sit back and judge them as if I'm some sort of jury, like you're claiming.  Nor do I think BA's are all about men (not sure where you got that), nor have I ever stated I'm an expert on women.  I'm simply explaining why I have a problem with PS.  Those reasons are from 34 years of dealing with people from all walks of life.



KristyDarling said:


> I had a tummy tuck based on the fact that I plain ole didn't LIKE having a big, floppy pancake of slack, wrinkled, and stretched-marked skin hanging over my pubic bone like an apron. The rest of me was slim and 8 lbs lighter than my pre-pregnancy weight, but that extra skin made it hard for me to fit into clothes properly. And it was very unsightly for me to look at. My husband actually didn't care one whit about my belly, so it was not about pleasing my man or society at large, but rather, it was about something exceedingly simple called *personal preference.* Yes, it CAN be as simple as that! I was a happy girl...both with AND without the extra belly skin. I just preferred to be without it!



Ok, so why did it matter to you that your clothes fit properly?  Who defines properly?  If you truly didn't care about how others perceived you, the you wouldn't care how you looked in clothes or in the mirror topless.  Again, insecurity.  Perhaps minimal compared to others, but insecurity never the less.



vhdos said:


> It seems to be a reoccurring theme with you Charles - reducing things to female insecurity.  From relationship troubles to plastic surgery, your answer often seems to be female insecurity.  Perhaps, as another poster suggested, you are projecting your own insecurities unto women?
> I don't know how you make the jump from breast augmentation to a face transplant?  As if breast augmentation is that extreme in this day and age.  Hundreds of thousands of BA's are preformed each year, most with positive results.  As if all of those who get a BA are so riddled with insecurity that the next plausible step to their happiness is having a face transplant.  Again, most of the women I know are normal, happy women.  They just wanted a little more.  Not every woman who has a BA is interested in giant, look-at-me boobs.
> And if you want to keep railing on the fact that women are insecure, then lets address _male_ insecurity.  I know plenty of insecure men who are into fast cars, motorcycles, etc. to fill that void.  Now am I saying that _all_ men who are into those things are insecure?  Absolutely not. But we've all seen that guy, popping a  wheelie on his crotch rocket as soon as the traffic light turns green.  My take on it?  He's insecure.  Perhaps he should get some therapy to get to the root of the problem instead of risking life & limb on his bike?



Because almost everything we do in live stems from some sort of insecurity.  I'm not understanding how you don't see that.  Why did these women you know "want a little more"??  Insecurity.  As for the rest, I've never said males aren't insecure.  In fact, I've admitted multiple times that I used to be MUCH more insecure and that I still am to an extent. Once again, my concern is the length people will go and the routes they take to deal with those insecurities.


----------



## vhdos

Charles said:


> Unfortunately, you're the one who's wrong.  Almost every reason given by the women in this thread is based in insecurity.  PERIOD.  Even in your own response to me, trying to negate the insecurity reason, you cite specific things women and men do out of insecurity.  So in essence, you're contradicting yourself and proving my point.  This has nothing to do with me projecting my insecurities, it comes from most women trying to justify the reasons they got a BA.  Let's break it down...
> 
> - Women getting BA's to get back to pre-nursing stage.  Why?  Why would it matter for a woman to have perky boobs?  It's cause that's what's considered attractive.  Am I wrong?
> - Women getting BA's for themselves, not for men.  Ok, why?  Why would a woman want to get bigger, perkier, more shapely breasts?  Cause that's what society has deemed as attractive.  Am I wrong?
> - Your arguments about styling hair or dressing a certain way.  Why would someone do that?  To fit in with a certain image they find attractive.  Why try to meet that image?  Cause you feel less attractive when you don't.  Am I wrong?
> 
> ALL of those reasons are rooted in insecurity, and if you can't see that, I'm not sure what to tell you.  If you care about how you look, you have insecurities, correct?  By getting a BA, you're getting a surgical procedure to help meet a certain look in order to feel better about yourself, correct?  Again, that is insecurity.  If you disagree, specifically explain how I'm incorrect.
> As I've stated before, I know girls who've gotten PS and are great people.  I don't sit back and judge them as if I'm some sort of jury, like you're claiming.  Nor do I think BA's are all about men (not sure where you got that), nor have I ever stated I'm an expert on women.  I'm simply explaining why I have a problem with PS.  Those reasons are from 34 years of dealing with people from all walks of life.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so why did it matter to you that your clothes fit properly?  Who defines properly?  If you truly didn't care about how others perceived you, the you wouldn't care how you looked in clothes or in the mirror topless.  Again, insecurity.  Perhaps minimal compared to others, but insecurity never the less.
> 
> 
> 
> Because almost everything we do in live stems from some sort of insecurity.  *I'm not understanding how you don't see that. * Why did these women you know "want a little more"??  Insecurity.  As for the rest, I've never said males aren't insecure.  In fact, I've admitted multiple times that I used to be MUCH more insecure and that I still am to an extent. Once again, my concern is the length people will go and the routes they take to deal with those insecurities.



I _DO_ see it and I don't see it as a problem in many cases.  What makes you a better person for dealing with your insecurities the way you see fit than for a woman to have a BA to deal with hers?  Is the woman who had surgery for her insecurity somehow less desirable than the woman who has gone through years of therapy for her insecurity?  What about medication?  What do you make of the woman who deals with the physical symptoms of insecurity by taking medication prescribed by a doctor?  Where do you put that on your scale of extremes?


----------



## Charles

Oh...something to chew on:

http://suicide.suite101.com/article.cfm/depression_and_body_image

http://ezinearticles.com/?Psychology-of-Breast-Implants&id=1097563

http://www.breast-plastic-surgery.org/breast-implants-and-psychology.html

http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/news/cosmetic_surgery.shtml

If you actually think the main reasons behind PS isn't insecurity, you're in denial.


----------



## Charles

vhdos said:


> I _DO_ see it and I don't see it as a problem in many cases.  What makes you a better person for dealing with your insecurities the way you see fit than for a woman to have a BA to deal with hers?  Is the woman who had surgery for her insecurity somehow less desirable than the woman who has gone through years of therapy for her insecurity?  What about medication?  What do you make of the woman who deals with the physical symptoms of insecurity by taking medication prescribed by a doctor?  Where do you put that on your scale of extremes?



Because, like I said before, PS is a band aid.  It's not addressing WHY a person is insecure.  It doesn't address why someone feels the need to go to such an extreme measure to attain a certain body image.  Therapy does, and that's the main reason.


----------



## KristyDarling

Charles said:


> Ok, so why did it matter to you that your clothes fit properly?  Who defines properly?  If you truly didn't care about how others perceived you, the you wouldn't care how you looked in clothes or in the mirror topless.  Again, insecurity.  Perhaps minimal compared to others, but insecurity never the less.


I've seen your photos...you seem to take care of your own appearance. You choose clothes that fit you properly...by your own reasoning above, you must be insecure.   By your reasoning, ANYONE who chooses to wear clothes that fit them right has psychological issues and needs counseling. I like my clothes to fit me properly because it is aesthetically pleasing to my eyes. Given a choice between wearing ill-fitting clothes and comfortable well-fitting clothes, I will always choose the latter. Just like how I always choose the color blue over red -- it's a personal preference and it pleases my eyes more. Not sure why that means I'm insecure. 

By saying that every woman's actions as relating to her appearance stem from insecurity, you are reducing womankind to a single caricature. That is simplistic thinking, and not only that, it is arrogant thinking. To believe that you personally know the motivations behind all women's appearance-related choices is mind-bogglingly arrogant and chauvinistic. You don't know me, and  I find it funny in a sad kind of way that you magically KNOW without doubt that I am insecure. God-like, really.

Charles, you're obviously smart, but I think that you trying so insistently and adamantly to prove your "rightness" shows insecurities of your own. It shows a deep need to be RIGHT and SMARTER than everyone else. It takes a *truly* wise person to accept that he does NOT know everything, that there are things that he cannot ever fully understand. I think you need to quit overanalyzing, assuming, projecting, and generalizing on this particular topic. There's nothing to prove here. There are no two women alike on this planet, and there is no ONE catch-all explanation for why women do ANYTHING. All we can do here is to share our own PERSONAL reasons for PS. For some, it may be esteem-related, for others, it isn't. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. All I know is that I have a healthy self-esteem, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I had a tummy tuck...there's a lot more to me than that.


----------



## vhdos

I've never denied that insecurity may not be the reason for some people to get plastic surgery.  *It's not a band-aid, it's an answer for many people*.  Therapy is not always the answer (I was a youth/family counselor so I have some knowledge on the subject).  Some people go for years to therapy and still have issues.  Some people spend an hour on the operating table and the problem is solved.  Obviously, you seem to think that you know more about the female psyche, than females!  Hooray for you for doing what no other man has ever been able to do - figuring out women! (um, I'm being sarcastic) 
I respect your opinions, but I'm done beating this dead horse.


And well-said KristyDarling!!!!


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

ITA with Kristy!  

Here's what I consider insecure in women or men. Yeah I'm sure I can find data to back these things up. The internet is full of it (in more ways than one lol) Does that make them the end all on insecurity, heck no. 

Women who can never be without a guy around. Go from one man to another, never healing themselves or getting to know themselves. No inner peace. 

Women who look at what men say as the God spoken truth.  Welll a guy said it, it must be the truth.  

Women who need to know what everyone is wearing when getting together. Why does what I wear effect them? I met with one yesterday. She hasn't had a speck EVER of PS yet she is truly one of the most insecure people I have ever known. Business contact.

Actually consider people who care enough about how they feel about their looks as more secure than those who won't take charge & do the work, save the money, diet & exercise, whatever it takes to make themselves happier & healthier.  To just live with the status quo, if it concerns you, is just playing martyr.

If one doing PS is for another person, that is a reason why doctors aren't suppose to do the surgery. The doctors happen to see having PS for oneself as a mentally healthy reason enough to have it done.  If someone is never happy about the PS then that would be insecure, nothing will make them happy. Like the lion woman. Going in year after year & finding things wrong to fix all the time.


----------



## surferchick2

If I got BA it would be for convenience when purchasing a bikini.  It's a pain in the ass finding a different size top from my bottoms in the matching style.  Or, I could lose an inch off the hips.  Could that be a reason?  I'm just kidding, btw.  I wouldn't go under the knife for that, but there were times while shopping I wished I had bigger boobs when there was no mixin and matchin and the price for the set is a deal, when seperately isn't.   lol.  Oh but I just realized this... If I want my top to be a matching set to my bottoms, I'm projecting insecurity.  WTH.  I'll just get a pink polka dot top with a brown and green striped bottoms.  I want the world to know that I don't care how I look.  That's how happy I am with myself. 

Sorry....carry on.


----------



## KristyDarling

surferchick2 said:


> if i got ba it would be for convenience when purchasing a bikini.  It's a pain in the ass finding a different size top from my bottoms in the matching style.  Or, i could lose an inch off the hips.  Could that be a reason?  I'm just kidding, btw.  I wouldn't go under the knife for that, but there were times while shopping i wished i had bigger boobs when there was no mixin and matchin and the price for the set is a deal, when seperately isn't.   Lol.  Oh but i just realized this... If i want my top to be a matching set to my bottoms, i'm projecting insecurity.  Wth.  *i'll just get a pink polka dot top with a brown and green striped bottoms.  I want the world to know that i don't care how i look.  That's how happy i am with myself. *
> 
> sorry....carry on.


lol!


----------



## Charles

KristyDarling said:


> I've seen your photos...you seem to take care of your own appearance. You choose clothes that fit you properly...by your own reasoning above, you must be insecure.   By your reasoning, ANYONE who chooses to wear clothes that fit them right has psychological issues and needs counseling.



I have already admitted I have insecurities.  Again, this is about the severity and the lengths people will go to deal with them.  Why is this so hard to understand?  I have never said that people who wear a certain style of clothes need therapy.  This is about the lengths people go to deal with insecurity and the idea that people who would go so far as to pay thousands of dollars and risk their health to meet a specific image, could probably benefit from therapy.  There's a difference between someone combing their hair and someone getting a BA.



KristyDarling said:


> I like my clothes to fit me properly because it is aesthetically pleasing to my eyes. Given a choice between wearing ill-fitting clothes and comfortable well-fitting clothes, I will always choose the latter. Just like how I always choose the color blue over red -- it's a personal preference and it pleases my eyes more. Not sure why that means I'm insecure.



Because you chose to get surgery to make yourself fit a certain image that you felt was acceptable.  What shapes what's aesthetically pleasing to your eyes?  Society and environment.  If you grew up in a box your whole life and had no exposure to the outside world, do you think you'd know that sagging breasts aren't aesthetically pleasing?  You wouldn't know that, thus you wouldn't feel unattractive (in your eyes).  That is how insecurity manifests.  Exposure to what you feel is "normal" and the fact that you see yourself as not fitting into that mold.  If you were 100% secure with the way you looked, you wouldn't care about how clothes fit.  You'd wear clothes purely for function...burlap sacks, curtains..whatever covered your body.  Hell, you might even be a nudist.  This is my point.  No matter how you want to deny it, how you see yourself it rooted in security or lack of.



KristyDarling said:


> By saying that every woman's actions as relating to her appearance stem from insecurity, you are reducing womankind to a single caricature.  That is simplistic thinking, and not only that, it is arrogant thinking. To believe that you personally know the motivations behind all women's appearance-related choices is mind-bogglingly arrogant and chauvinistic. You don't know me, and  I find it funny in a sad kind of way that you magically KNOW without doubt that I am insecure. God-like, really.



No, I'm reducing society to one major root cause for a lot of what goes on.   I see nothing wrong with that. The reason most of this is directed toward women is cause women are who get BAs, no?  Most people dress, act, talk, look for love, based on an image they find appealing.  Insecurities fuel those images to a major extent.  Showing that is not arrogant nor chauvinistic.  It's pointing out facts. 
To add, I find it quite ironic that most of the retorts to me are trying to show that all of this is based on my own insecurities, yet you are trying to deny your own.  If I'm supposedly trying to convey a level of security to cover up for my lack of...what are you doing?



KristyDarling said:


> Charles, you're obviously smart, but I think that you trying so insistently and adamantly to prove your "rightness" shows insecurities of your own. It shows a deep need to be RIGHT and SMARTER than everyone else. It takes a *truly* wise person to accept that he does NOT know everything, that there are things that he cannot ever fully understand. I think you need to quit overanalyzing, assuming, projecting, and generalizing on this particular topic. There's nothing to prove here. There are no two women alike on this planet, and there is no ONE catch-all explanation for why women do ANYTHING. All we can do here is to share our own PERSONAL reasons for PS. For some, it may be esteem-related, for others, it isn't. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. All I know is that I have a healthy self-esteem, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I had a tummy tuck...there's a lot more to me than that.



I admit I have a need to be right, because it bothers me when something is so obvious, yet denied.  When I know I'm wrong, I admit it.  I'm not wrong here.  I never said there is ONE reason for PS.  Please re-read my posts.  I said the MAIN reason is insecurity.  Please notice the differences.  Go read the articles I posted.

You keep trying to deny what I'm saying, yet everything you post backs up my points, and sure, eventually, I'll get tried of trying to point out how you're incorrect, but I'm not at there yet.


----------



## Charles

vhdos said:


> I've never denied that insecurity may not be the reason for some people to get plastic surgery.  *It's not a band-aid, it's an answer for many people*.  Therapy is not always the answer (I was a youth/family counselor so I have some knowledge on the subject).  Some people go for years to therapy and still have issues.  Some people spend an hour on the operating table and the problem is solved.  Obviously, you seem to think that you know more about the female psyche, than females!  Hooray for you for doing what no other man has ever been able to do - figuring out women! (um, I'm being sarcastic)
> I respect your opinions, but I'm done beating this dead horse.
> 
> 
> And well-said KristyDarling!!!!



Did you happen to read the article I posted about the higher rate of suicide among plastic surgery patients?  Please recognize the fact that I'm not talking in absolutes.  Can PS be a "cure" for some people?  Yes.  However, for most, it's not.  It's a band-aid which doesn't address the root causes of their insecurities.


----------



## plr16

Caring what your appearance is is not a demonstration of insecurity. Saying its insecurity implies that people will spend time on their appearance and then worry how other people receive them. Plenty of women take the time to make themselves appear exactly how they like to look and then feel confident that they look good, no matter what anyone else thinks. 

In addition, a bigger chest for women is very much the same for men being well endowed in other areas. If it were possible for men to simply get plastic surgery to grow in those areas, are you trying to say they wouldn't?


----------



## Cornflower Blue

plr16 said:


> *Caring what your appearance is is not a demonstration of insecurity. Saying its insecurity implies that people will spend time on their appearance and then worry how other people receive them. Plenty of women take the time to make themselves appear exactly how they like to look and then feel confident that they look good, no matter what anyone else thinks.
> *
> In addition, a bigger chest for women is very much the same for men being well endowed in other areas. If it were possible for men to simply get plastic surgery to grow in those areas, are you trying to say they wouldn't?



Well said.

And *Charles*, 'Guide me, O thou great Jehovah' ....


----------



## vhdos

Charles said:


> Did you happen to read the article I posted about the higher rate of suicide among plastic surgery patients?  Please recognize the fact that I'm not talking in absolutes.  Can PS be a "cure" for some people?  Yes.  However, for most, it's not.  It's a band-aid which doesn't address the root causes of their insecurities.



Yeah, I read your articles.  The women _I_ know certainly don't fit those profiles.
Look, I have been in agreement with you all along that breast augmentation is often done out of one form of insecurity or another.  So what?  What exactly is your implication?  Are women who choose breast augmentation supposed to be SO emotionally flawed in your opinion that they are un-dateable?  If we _all _have insecurities, where do you draw the line between someone who is okay and someone who is not okay?  You've assumed that a woman must be terribly, emotionally flawed to undergo such a procedure, but not everyone views surgery as such an extreme.  Plastic surgery has become so colloquial these days that it hardly seems like much of a risk.  Perhaps I have just become desensitized after having worked in the medical industry (DH and I own a company that specializes in surgical equipment).  I've seen boob jobs completed in less than hour, which is about the same time that your glasses will be ready at lens Crafters...


----------



## bonchicgenre

Why does it matter? Why do you care about people who change things on their body.  If you don't like breast implants, don't get them, don't look at them. Because the subject was brought up in the manner you wrote it seems you are jealous of the women that do have them.


----------



## bonchicgenre

vhdos said:


> Yeah, I read your articles.  The women _I_ know certainly don't fit those profiles.
> Look, I have been in agreement with you all along that breast augmentation is often done out of one form of insecurity or another.  So what?  What exactly is your implication?  Are women who choose breast augmentation supposed to be SO emotionally flawed in your opinion that they are un-dateable?  If we _all _have insecurities, where do you draw the line between someone who is okay and someone who is not okay?  You've assumed that a woman must be terribly, emotionally flawed to undergo such a procedure, but not everyone views surgery as such an extreme.  Plastic surgery has become so colloquial these days that it hardly seems like much of a risk.  Perhaps I have just become desensitized after having worked in the medical industry (DH and I own a company that specializes in surgical equipment).  I've seen boob jobs completed in less than hour, which is about the same time that your glasses will be ready at lens Crafters...



If surgery makes you happy and more secure then great! People buy all sorts of things because it makes them happy. As for the suicide risks, I have never heard that, but out of all my friends who have had PS none of them fit in to that category.
My boyfriend and family love me just as much today as they did before I had implants. It didn't change who I was at all, and it never will. I am the same person that walked into that PS that walked out.


----------



## Irishgal

vhdos said:


> Yeah, I read your articles.  The women _I_ know certainly don't fit those profiles.
> Look, I have been in agreement with you all along that breast augmentation is often done out of one form of insecurity or another.  So what?  What exactly is your implication?  Are women who choose breast augmentation supposed to be SO emotionally flawed in your opinion that they are un-dateable?  If we _all _have insecurities, where do you draw the line between someone who is okay and someone who is not okay?  You've assumed that a woman must be terribly, emotionally flawed to undergo such a procedure, but not everyone views surgery as such an extreme.  Plastic surgery has become so colloquial these days that it hardly seems like much of a risk.  Perhaps I have just become desensitized after having worked in the medical industry (DH and I own a company that specializes in surgical equipment). * I've seen boob jobs completed in less than hour, which is about the same time that your glasses will be ready at lens Crafters...*



You might be on to something here! One hour photo, one hour eyeglasses, one hour BA!


----------



## Compass Rose

Well, one of the only things stopping me from getting a boob job would be going for a mammogram and not getting a true reading.  Not knowing much about it, I am just assuming that it is tougher to x-ray breast tissue under implants.  Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## vhdos

Compass Rose said:


> Well, one of the only things stopping me from getting a boob job would be going for a mammogram and not getting a true reading.  Not knowing much about it, I am just assuming that it is tougher to x-ray breast tissue under implants.  Correct me if I am wrong.



Yes, it can be a bit more difficult and it should be given special consideration if there is a strong family history of breast cancer.  Typically a mammogram is done before a BA (regardless of age) to get a base line.  Mammograms with implants require extra images, a different technique, and it takes longer to read the results.  The techniques employed these days _can_ give accurate readings.  However, if a woman has scar tissue (or calcium deposits) as a result of her implants, interpretation of a mammogram can be more difficult.


----------



## ilvoelv

bonchicgenre said:


> Why does it matter? Why do you care about people who change things on their body.  If you don't like breast implants, don't get them, don't look at them. Because the subject was brought up in the manner you wrote it seems you are jealous of the women that do have them.




I totally agree with this statement..


----------



## merika

I never thought of this until recently, but now my body has begun to manifest signs of aging.  My skin is no longer as smooth, my boobs no longer perky, I get random pain in my joints...  I sometimes wonder how difficult it will be for me to accept and go along with the fact that my body will no longer be as good as it used to be, and not just on the surface.


----------



## bonchicgenre

merika said:


> I never thought of this until recently, but now my body has begun to manifest signs of aging.  My skin is no longer as smooth, my boobs no longer perky, I get random pain in my joints...  I sometimes wonder how difficult it will be for me to accept and go along with the fact that my body will no longer be as good as it used to be, and not just on the surface.



The idea of PS is completely up to you. It's something you should do a lot of research on and know exactly what you do and don't want. There are other options such as a great bra, skin care regimens. Just don't ever feel pressured, do it for yourself and no one else.


----------



## PinkSuadeSoho

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> ick, judgemental much? Maybe you'll change your mind after you have kids.
> Before kids mine were also DD's.  After nursing 3 kids they were D's but not perky.  To have them just lifted would've changed their size down to about a B. . . . I was never a B and wasn't sure I wanted a "new" Swanky.  I wanted old Swanky back.  So I got a lift and implants.  So what?



Amen^

I don't have BA yet, not sure I will. I have many friends that have and are very happy with the results. I don't understand the OP's logic or why what others do would create such judgement. Live and let live.


----------



## PinkSuadeSoho

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I've said it once but it bears repeating:
> *Delivery is EVERYTHING!!!*
> 
> It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that you can mean the exact same thing if you choose to deliver your message in a respectful way.
> 
> Case in point:
> _"do you like these shoes?"_
> 
> a} hell's no, those are fug girl!
> -or
> b} no, I don't care for those personally
> 
> see?  Means the same thing and ANYONE knows before they post what kind of message they really want to deliver.
> The OP's delivery of her inquiry wasn't friendly or an attempt to 'just find out'.  It was judgmental, and if you're going to me judgmental, you WILL BE JUDGED back.



You go girl!^


----------



## Charles

plr16 said:


> Caring what your appearance is is not a demonstration of insecurity.



Incorrect.  It's an exact example of insecurity.  Please study up on psychology before posting.



vhdos said:


> Yeah, I read your articles.  The women _I_ know certainly don't fit those profiles.
> Look, I have been in agreement with you all along that breast augmentation is often done out of one form of insecurity or another.  So what?  What exactly is your implication?  Are women who choose breast augmentation supposed to be SO emotionally flawed in your opinion that they are un-dateable?  If we _all _have insecurities, where do you draw the line between someone who is okay and someone who is not okay?  You've assumed that a woman must be terribly, emotionally flawed to undergo such a procedure, but not everyone views surgery as such an extreme.  Plastic surgery has become so colloquial these days that it hardly seems like much of a risk.  Perhaps I have just become desensitized after having worked in the medical industry (DH and I own a company that specializes in surgical equipment).  I've seen boob jobs completed in less than hour, which is about the same time that your glasses will be ready at lens Crafters...



Like I said, it's about how far someone will go to fit an image.  I'd rather not date a girl who'd want to go that far.


----------



## pattylauren

I'm a very small chested woman and I don't understand why women get implants, but that's me. I have no desire to be any bigger than my size A - I don't feel any less of a woman, any less beautiful, worth of someone's attention, etc. I like it that I can wear a LOT of things bigger chested girls can't wear simply because of size or over sexiness. I can guess why a lot of women get them and why they feel like they need to, but that's probably not every woman's reason. I can understand a woman who has had children or has smaller ones and they start to head south wanting to get a lift... that makes more sense to me than someone getting implants just because they think they're not beautiful unless they have them. To each their own!


----------



## DesigningStyle

Sorry, I just have to add.  I read *Charles' *comments here and they just make me LOL!  *Charles *sorry man, but you need to be a woman to understand this.  You just don't get it.


----------



## Irishgal

Charles said:


> Incorrect.  It's an exact example of insecurity.  Please study up on psychology before posting.
> 
> 
> 
> Charles,
> While some women do feel insecure and as a result engage in altering their appearance via PS, there is a lot of research to indicate that concerns for one's appearance is hard wired. There is an article by D. B. Sarwer, L Magee, and V. Clark, 2004 that addresses the evolutionary nature of the quest for attractiveness.
> So there are as many reasons for having PS as there are women and men having PS.
> Oh, and no need to tell me to "study up on psychology" if you were thinking of doing so. As many people here know I earned a PhD in clinical psych from UCLA many moons ago and have been involved with not only clinical practice but neuroscience research as well.
> 
> Cheers.


----------



## gillianna

My friend is getting her implants taken out (put in after double mast. from cancer).  Her body is rejecting them/she is allergic to them and very sick.  She has been sick for the past few years and after reading hundreds of pages on the web. her symptoms are pointing to her implants and her doctor agrees.  Implants may be safe for 95% of people but there are also those few unlucky ones who have problems.  I am not saying women should not get implants.
What amazes me is now that she is getting them out her doctors feel she needs to have her chest rebuilt through her back muscles.  Total shock that she is saying no.  So even the doctors push you to do something you don't want to do.  She feels very comfortable with getting them out and just wearing a padded bra for work.  But the pressure other people tell her-it is wrong, she will be sorry, get it done right away.  Society still judges a person on how they look-no matter what one will say the media and others can make anyone feel bad about a certain part of their body.


----------



## Charles

Irishgal said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect.  It's an exact example of insecurity.  Please study up on psychology before posting.
> 
> 
> 
> Charles,
> While some women do feel insecure and as a result engage in altering their appearance via PS, there is a lot of research to indicate that concerns for one's appearance is hard wired. There is an article by D. B. Sarwer, L Magee, and V. Clark, 2004 that addresses the evolutionary nature of the quest for attractiveness.
> So there are as many reasons for having PS as there are women and men having PS.
> Oh, and no need to tell me to "study up on psychology" if you were thinking of doing so. As many people here know I earned a PhD in clinical psych from UCLA many moons ago and have been involved with not only clinical practice but neuroscience research as well.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post a link of that article?  Does it state what % of women have PS because they're "hardwired"?  Aside from that, that doesn't negate what I'm saying.  Hardwired or not....insecurity.
> 
> Once again, it seems you're overlooking the fact that I'm not talking in absolutes.  Do you disagree that MOST women get PS because of insecurity?
Click to expand...


----------



## Bella

Sheesh, thank goodness my SO didn't make any judgments about me when I chose to have a BA.  Without having to explain or analyze why I did it, I'll just say yes, I feel better about my breasts having done it.  That was the plan.


----------



## Swanky

I think there's equally a number of women NOT "insecure" as are insecure, that get them. 
I'm not insecure, Jill's not, etc. . .   
I don't think it's fair or correct to throw blanket generalizations out there about this.


----------



## Bella

Charles, I was insecure about my breasts.  I'll shout it out loud.  So what that I was.  Am I less than in some people's opinion because I didn't just accept what I was given?  Maybe, but I'm secure enough (haha) to have not let that sway me in my decision.  My body, my choice.  I researched and thought long and hard about the surgery and decided to do it and would do it again, actually I will since they don't last forever.  As far as needing therapy, I could use some, why not.  Really, I think we're just making a mountain out of a molehill here.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Bella said:


> .... I think we're just making a mountain out of a molehill here.



oh the irony!


----------



## PinkSuadeSoho

bagnshoofetish said:


> oh the irony!



LOL, or I guess we could say that we're making a mountain out of a meatball...

I haven't had mine refurbished yet. I am not insecure. It's more of an annoyance than anything else. I am constantly rolling then back in and have to make sure they aren't  a fire hazard for my feet.


----------



## KristyDarling

LOL!  I love reading your posts, Charles. Each one just gets better and better!


----------



## lily25

I have normal boobs for my body, they are between a and b cup, but I have a big ribcage and c implants would look ridiculous on me, I'd look fat. But if I had mosquito bites boobs, or very saggy boobs I would get them dome to achieve symmetry and  "normal" appearence. I 'm not a fan of the huuuge boobies, fake or real, but I love symmetry.

My friend who is a plastic surgeon told me this

 "DO NOT have plastic surgery. 9 out of 10 plastic surgeons admit they would never do it on a member of their own family. The few who have performed it on their wives are usually repairing some other guy's **** up. The nose looks scary, the lips are drag queen, and the tits have to be replaced every five years. Ask anyone who has done anything done; they all regret it."

I don't know if it is true, or he was trying to scare me, but it is food for thought.


----------



## BigPurseSue

Irishgal said:


> Charles,
> While some women do feel insecure and as a result engage in altering their appearance via PS, *there is a lot of research to indicate that concerns for one's appearance is hard wired*. There is an article by D. B. Sarwer, L Magee, and V. Clark, 2004 that addresses the evolutionary nature of the quest for attractiveness.


 
This is *really* true. And it's true not just for humans but for most mammals. 

Take a dog or cat or horse that's looking a bit at wit's end, clean them up, get their fur shining, clean their eyes and ears, and in many instances they know that they look good, they love it and they're hot to trot. This is especially true of horses. 

And tomcats. Now there is no animal with less of a self-esteem problem than a tomcat. But watch how they'll spend 30 minutes, maybe an hour even meticulously grooming themselves. Then ruffle their nice shiny fur and watch them slash that tail in annoyance and spend the next 30 minutes smoothing down that fur and removing the human grease. 

The point is that there are a lot of human habits and desires that are hard-wired into mammals and the desire to look one's best is one of them. It's an integral part of human dignity. It's not something that springs from some inadequacy in character. (Notice how, when you get sick with the flu, you always feel so much better after you take a shower, wash your hair, pull on clean clothes and put on a little jewelry, even if no one else is going to see you that day. You go back to bed feeling better because you're back to looking a little more human.)

Ideals of beauty are also deeply hard-wired in mammals--and in just about every other species from fish to birds. As comfortable as it is to blame the media for "big breast love" visit any archeological site and you'll probably find among the pot shards artifacts with even bigger breasts than are commonly seen on TV. 

Understand that I'm an old-time feminist, one who still feels betrayed by Gloria Steinem having had plastic surgery back in the 1970s when the rest of us were burning our bras. And I'm opposed to breast implants for my own reasons. (They're personal reasons, my own body has rejected/expelled five implants that were surgically implanted because a neurological disorder destroyed flesh and bone, and that was not a good time. I don't think it's a good idea to implant any foreign object into the  finicky ecosystem of one's delicately engineered anatomy.) 

Yet I know women who have breast implants--and in some cases have had them for decades--love 'em, have a good time with them, think they improve their life, their outlook, their self-confidence. So why not? 

When you get to my age and your friends start joking (only half-joking sometimes) about having to stand 3 feet from the mammogram machine while unrolling the goodies from their bras...you say, why not really? Why not? 

I've enjoyed your messages, Charles. It is good to read a thoughtful male perspective. (My husband just grunts and says he thinks implants are super-keen.) 

I've enjoyed reading the other messages too. This is not a simple topic to discuss, not something with a black and white resolution or clean lines of safety and sanity.  But everyone seems to be trying to act brave and make the best of it. 

Anyhow, sorry for the interruption. You may continue your arguments.


----------



## vhdos

Irishgal said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect.  It's an exact example of insecurity.  Please study up on psychology before posting.
> 
> 
> 
> Charles,
> While some women do feel insecure and as a result engage in altering their appearance via PS, there is a lot of research to indicate that concerns for one's appearance is hard wired. There is an article by D. B. Sarwer, L Magee, and V. Clark, 2004 that addresses the evolutionary nature of the quest for attractiveness.
> So there are as many reasons for having PS as there are women and men having PS.
> Oh, and no need to tell me to "study up on psychology" if you were thinking of doing so. As many people here know I earned a PhD in clinical psych from UCLA many moons ago and have been involved with not only clinical practice but neuroscience research as well.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, irishgal for your PROFESSIONAL perspective on things.  It's refreshing to hear.
Click to expand...


----------



## onegirlcreative

KristyDarling said:


> Charles, you're obviously smart, but I think that you trying so insistently and adamantly to prove your "rightness" shows insecurities of your own. It shows a deep need to be RIGHT and SMARTER than everyone else. It takes a *truly* wise person to accept that he does NOT know everything, that there are things that he cannot ever fully understand. I think you need to quit overanalyzing, assuming, projecting, and generalizing on this particular topic. There's nothing to prove here. There are no two women alike on this planet, and there is no ONE catch-all explanation for why women do ANYTHING. All we can do here is to share our own PERSONAL reasons for PS. For some, it may be esteem-related, for others, it isn't. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. All I know is that I have a healthy self-esteem, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I had a tummy tuck...there's a lot more to me than that.



i will say this much, for those of you on here who have had implants and saying you're not insecure, you all are trying your hardest to prove that you're not insecure, when in essence, isn't that a form of insecurity to begin with? you're trying to prove to charles and whomever the reasoning behind why you had your breast implant surgery, when in reality, the fact that you're continuously coming on here and claiming as such for the sake of proving you're not insecure, proves to me that you're just the opposite. i mean, if it were me, i wouldn't give a rats a$$ what anybody thought if i had breast implants. almost as if you're trying to convince yourselves that you didn't have breast implants for the sake of insecurity. who cares why you did it? the point is, you did it, and obviously there was some sort of vanity involved. it's neither bad or good, it just is. does it have to have a purpose or a reason behind it???

i personally think this topic is getting out of hand, because at this stage, it basically turned into a pi$$ing contest.


----------



## onegirlcreative

vhdos said:


> Yeah, I read your articles.  The women _I_ know certainly don't fit those profiles.
> Look, I have been in agreement with you all along that breast augmentation is often done out of one form of insecurity or another.  So what?  What exactly is your implication?  *Are women who choose breast augmentation supposed to be SO emotionally flawed in your opinion that they are un-dateable? * If we _all _have insecurities, where do you draw the line between someone who is okay and someone who is not okay?  You've assumed that a woman must be terribly, emotionally flawed to undergo such a procedure, but not everyone views surgery as such an extreme.  Plastic surgery has become so colloquial these days that it hardly seems like much of a risk.  Perhaps I have just become desensitized after having worked in the medical industry (DH and I own a company that specializes in surgical equipment).  I've seen boob jobs completed in less than hour, which is about the same time that your glasses will be ready at lens Crafters...



i'm not trying to take anybody's side here, but wasn't charles simply saying that these women aren't necessarily undateable, per se, but he just isn't attracted to women with fake breasts? there are men out there who prefer women with fake breastsheck, just look at the majority of the porn movies out there and porn mags. these women have fake breasts! clearly that must be the preference, no?

i prefer men who are muscular and who are at least 6' tall, but that doesn't mean a scrawny guy who is only 5'8" is undateableit simply means i'm not particularly attracted to him. it doesn't make it wrong or right, it just is my personal preference. and if i have to make love to that person, don't i have to be attracted to them?

to be honest, my husband doesn't like fake breasts either. it doesn't mean if i ever decided to get them myself he would dissuade me for that reason, he would dissuade me for the sake of going under the knife simply to make my breasts larger and perkier. heck, if i could afford it, i'd get a tummy tuck in a minute! i hate my post-baby belly and can't seem to get rid of it. but that's beside the point, i actually commend charles for coming on here in front of this crowd to plead his case. his points are very concise and accurate, and to be honest, i have had no problems getting his point (repeatedly).


----------



## LOREBUNDE

KristyDarling said:


> LOL!  I love reading your posts, Charles. Each one just gets better and better!


 Yes, this thread has turned out to be very interesting indeed, lol
I find myself going straight here to read everyones responses, especially in regard to Charles post.  That's why I love it here, everyone gets to give their own opinions, and we all get along


----------



## tillie46

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I think there's equally a number of women NOT "insecure" as are insecure, that get them.
> I'm not insecure, Jill's not, etc. . .
> I don't think it's fair or correct to throw blanket generalizations out there about this.



Swanky, count me in the group, with you and Jill as NOT insecure in getting BA!


----------



## vhdos

onegirlcreative said:


> i'm not trying to take anybody's side here, but wasn't charles simply saying that these women aren't necessarily undateable, per se, but he just isn't attracted to women with fake breasts? there are men out there who prefer women with fake breastsheck, just look at the majority of the porn movies out there and porn mags. these women have fake breasts! clearly that must be the preference, no?
> 
> i prefer men who are muscular and who are at least 6' tall, but that doesn't mean a scrawny guy who is only 5'8" is undateableit simply means i'm not particularly attracted to him. it doesn't make it wrong or right, it just is my personal preference. and if i have to make love to that person, don't i have to be attracted to them?
> 
> to be honest, my husband doesn't like fake breasts either. it doesn't mean if i ever decided to get them myself he would dissuade me for that reason, he would dissuade me for the sake of going under the knife simply to make my breasts larger and perkier. heck, if i could afford it, i'd get a tummy tuck in a minute! i hate my post-baby belly and can't seem to get rid of it. but that's beside the point, i actually commend charles for coming on here in front of this crowd to plead his case. his points are very concise and accurate, and to be honest, i have had no problems getting his point (repeatedly).



And it's perfectly fine to have an opinion on implants one way or another.  We like what we like and there's nothing wrong with that. I completely acknowledge the fact that women get implants out of insecurity, but my point is, so what?  What difference does it make?  If we all have insecurity, what is so different about the insecurity a woman may have about her breasts versus any other insecurity?  Charles won't even address those questions, he just keeps railing on the fact that women get implants out of insecurity.  Not everyone feels that surgery is such an extreme, so to say that it's going "too far" to mask an insecurity is not really a valid point in my opinion.  I _do_ think that Charles makes some valuable contributions to the Forum and I often appreciate what he has to say, but I'm going to have to agree to disagree that he knows more about women than women.


----------



## Swanky

I don't think stating or defending your perspective proves you're insecure.


----------



## Charles

vhdos said:


> And it's perfectly fine to have an opinion on implants one way or another.  We like what we like and there's nothing wrong with that. I completely acknowledge the fact that women get implants out of insecurity, but my point is, so what?  What difference does it make?  If we all have insecurity, what is so different about the insecurity a woman may have about her breasts versus any other insecurity?  Charles won't even address those questions, he just keeps railing on the fact that women get implants out of insecurity.  Not everyone feels that surgery is such an extreme, so to say that it's going "too far" to mask an insecurity is not really a valid point in my opinion.  I _do_ think that Charles makes some valuable contributions to the Forum and I often appreciate what he has to say, but I'm going to have to agree to disagree that he knows more about women than women.



I have addressed those questions.  I have said that we all have insecurity...no matter how minor or major.  I've also addressed how you don't seem to care about the extent to which people will go to handle them.  I've also stated my issues are with people who will get a surgical procedure, cause to me, that's taking it too far.  Yes, I get up and comb my hair, I work out, I dress a certain way and the reasons behind that stem from whatever insecurities I have, however, I'm not so worried about them that I'd go out and get a surgical procedure in order to feel better about myself.  Instead, I'll feel better about myself by trying to not worry so much about how others see me.  To me, I think that's the answer, not going out to get surgery to change your image.  That's all I'm saying, and that's all I've always been saying. You disagree...I get that.  Honestly, I think we're going around in circles for no reason, cause it seems as your posts continue, I agree with what you're saying, and realize that we simply view surgery on a different level.  I think it's too extreme, you don't. 

Also, I never said I know more about women than women, but almost every person who's posted in this thread, has gotten a BA due to a certain insecurity.  No one (cept maybe one or two) has been able to legitimately deny that, no matter how much they said they didn't.  So yes, in this case, I do think I know what I'm talking about, and that a few people here are in denial about the root cause of their reason for PS.

Notice...no absolutes.  

And yes, at this point, I think I've explained all I can, so I'm done trying to prove my case.  I'm done letting my insecurities get the best of me in this thread!


----------



## HauteMama

Irishgal said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. It's an exact example of insecurity. Please study up on psychology before posting.
> 
> 
> 
> Charles,
> While some women do feel insecure and as a result engage in altering their appearance via PS, there is a lot of research to indicate that concerns for one's appearance is hard wired. There is an article by D. B. Sarwer, L Magee, and V. Clark, 2004 that addresses the evolutionary nature of the quest for attractiveness.
> So there are as many reasons for having PS as there are women and men having PS.
> Oh, and no need to tell me to "study up on psychology" if you were thinking of doing so. As many people here know I earned a PhD in clinical psych from UCLA many moons ago and have been involved with not only clinical practice but neuroscience research as well.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to have to look up that article. It never occurred to me that attractiveness (the desire to be so) could be "hard wired". Humans did not evolve with mirrors. Yes, we can see the difference between our bodies and the bodies of others, but we also know that the standards of attractiveness have changed depending on the society.
> 
> Statues of women considered "beautiful" in the past usually had a gentle swell in the abdomen and smaller breasts (definitely not high and rounded). In the distant past, statues were carved of the embodiment of fertility, and they were usually overweight with pendulous breasts. Of course, there were also clothing fads that enhanced a small waist or larger hips. But my point is that being hardwired to be willing to risk one's life (ANY surgery is a risk, even having a tooth extracted) to meet a temporary standard of beauty seems to be a risky evolutionary quality.
> 
> So while a healthy appearance and a symmetrical face and body is inherently more attractive (a healthy mate is more likely to produce healthy offspring), standards of weight, breast appearance, skin color (in the sense of having a tan or not having a tan being a sign of health and/or wealth) and other things are almost entirely a societal construct. It makes sense that people want to look like one another, or the majority, because we are essentially social creatures who depend on societies for our well-being. But it would seem odd to me, perhaps because I am NOT a psychologist, to be hardwired to go to extremes to try to meet ever changing standards.
Click to expand...


----------



## gillianna

Charles,
You posted in a past thread how you would NOT allow your son to shave until he was a certain age.  So if he wanted to shave to make himself feel well groomed  and
perhaps more confident you would NOT allow it.  To me this is passing your opinions on feeling he should live with hair on his face as no choice of his own and seems very controlling. You posted you were not allowed to shave until you were a certain age.  My son is 13 and he and most of his friends shave--they have hair on their face and to me it is OK for my son to shave.  
What would be wrong for your son wanting to do something like shaving which would change his appearance but is pretty much a normal everyday thing for most guys who do not have beards???  Do you feel your son has to live with facial hair until a certain age because you did or because you personally like having facial hair?


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

Charles said:


> Also, I never said I know more about women than women, but almost every person who's posted in this thread, has gotten a BA due to a certain insecurity. No one (cept maybe one or two) has been able to legitimately deny that, no matter how much they said they didn't. So yes, in this case, I do think I know what I'm talking about, and that a few people here are in denial about the root cause of their reason for PS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offense but maybe some of us don't feel we owe you an explanation. You're someone whose posting on a website, you aren't qualified to judge whether someone BA is from insecurity. People who don't have a back ground in mental health shouldn't preach it.
> 
> Everyone has different likes in what they look for from a SO. Stick to the standards you've set & you 'll be happy & those with BA's will be too.
Click to expand...


----------



## Swanky

seriously! It's your opinion Charles, not gospel.


----------



## natmk28

Charles said:


> I have some pretty strong opinions on this.  To be honest, I'd never date a girl with fake breasts.  My ex has saggy boobs, and it never crossed my mind that she was less attractive because of them.  Kara has rather perky, almost "perfect" C cups, and that fact doesn't make me love her more either.  I don't want to date a girl that ties her attractiveness to her boob size.  To me, the idea that people get plastic surgery only compounds the rather shallow outward beauty criteria that society has adopted.  If more girls (and guys) would simply be happy with what they are, as a whole, I think less emphasis would be placed on physical attractiveness..thus lessening the need to "fit in" by getting better looking breasts, cause no matter how you want to justify it, it is about fitting in and feeling more attractive.



I didn't want to respond to this thread anymore, because frankly its just all a little much for me and I said what I wanted to say about 10 pages back, but I had to respond to this.

 I've got to say that  a lot of women don't get them for men. If/when i get them it will be for me, entirely. My bf and likely one day husband is pretty emphatically against the decision, but at the same time understands, or at least will have to come to understand, that it IS my body and my choice. 

I also decisively do not attach my attractiveness to my boob size. I think Im gorgeous when I wake up the morning. Does that stop me from working out, putting on my make up, wearing nice clothes? No. There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve upon something you already love; a woman can think she is beautiful and still desire change.

 And I don't think calling all those who get them shallow is necessary at all, everyone is shallow in their own ways, sure some more than others, but exactly who are you to judge?


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

AMEN Swank!


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

natmk28 said:


> Years ago, telling a doctor you wanted these done for a boyfriend or anyone but yourself was suppose to disqualify you for the surgery.


----------



## Swanky

I don't think 98% of people are even questioned anymore to be honest.
I wasn't, not in any of my consultations.
Now that it's so mainstream, there's not much evaluating done I don't think.
I was asked what my goal was, I told him and we fixed the issues I had.  I hadn't even thought about it until now.

Maybe they sort of profile you mentally{?}


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

When I had my first set in 1986, (one ruptured & needed to be replaced). They  probably asked more questions than now. 

Maybe asking you what your goal was is a way to get the info they need. 

I've been talking about getting mine out, probably this year. Its been 10 years since they were put in, know they don't last forever. I'm at the age where they could start looking matronly. No they are not the size of Quinns on HWOC. lol


----------



## Swanky

no, by goal I mean "how do you want them to look?" LOL!
Saggy ta tas don't fit into bras well at all and are hard on the back when they're big.
But that's just me being insecure I guess


----------



## bagnshoofetish

wow.  I am emotionally drained reading all these posts!

I don't know if you guys realize this by now but everyone is basically saying the same thing; people are insecure (not just women), there are different reasons a person has PS, etc.  I think where people got offended was Charles use of the word "shallow".  Now lets face it, there are shallow people in this world so there is a contingency of that in any arena.  But to say ALL women who get BA and/or PS are shallow is too broad and too negative a generalization.  And I think thats where the wheels began to fall off the wagon.

Personally, I can't stand the thought of needles and sharp objects anywhere near my body much less inside it.  My DH can't stand the way fake boobs look and he is the one who has convinced me to never get them at a time I just threw the idea out there for fun.  My philosophy was to always work with and enhance what I had naturally through eating right and excercise.  But its easy to dismiss others choosing to do something surgically when it just isn't your cup of tea.  A good friend of mine lays out in the sun a LOT (always has since she was 16 - she's 46 now) and her skin looks like dark, distressed leather.  She drinks and she smokes and has all sorts of wrinkles on her face.  When I stand next to her, I look ten years younger than she does but its because I don't have the same lifestyle.  Thing is, she does not look bad to me - she's still the homecoming queen in my eyes.  She told me one day she's considering a face lift and  a boob lift and I told her "NO! Your'e going to look like the cat lady!  Don't do anything!"  And she said something that slapped me back into being more objective, "you say that because _you_ don't need it.  You would feel differently if you did."  At that moment, my heart sank and I felt like a giant insensitive heel.  I put myself in her place and had to wonder if I would go under the knife and I honestly still could not say, but was much more compassionate.
So short story long, be it vanity, insecurity, discomfort, whatever - why anyone chooses to get something done surgically is just none of my business.  Unless you walk a mile in someones shoes, you just cannot judge them.  Sometimes it saddens me that someone is so unhappy with their appearance but growing up a rather homely kid, I completely understand.  If thats what people feel they need to do, go for it.  I will always do my part to make that person feel good on the inside no matter what.


----------



## Irishgal

Charles said:


> Irishgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post a link of that article?  Does it state what % of women have PS because they're "hardwired"?  Aside from that, that doesn't negate what I'm saying.  Hardwired or not....insecurity.
> 
> Once again, it seems you're overlooking the fact that I'm not talking in absolutes.  Do you disagree that MOST women get PS because of insecurity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article was making a case for the argument that there is hardwiring involved with the interest a person might have to be more attractive. They did not actually take women or men who had PS and "check" to see if they were hardwired. Sadly, neuroscience has not come that far, but we are working on it.
> That said, I think that we have to operationally define "insecurity", and in fact, determine if being somewhat insecure may actually be a good thing. Take this example. I had a colleague who grew up in the UK and sadly, while she was brilliant and quite a pip, her teeth were frankly, awful, very discolored and crooked. She was insecure about this, which we talked about and we agreed that her insecurity probably was a good thing because in the "real world" of job hunting, presenting to peers, giving lectures and being in the public eye, having teeth that were so distracting might cause her to loose credibility, and she also would not smile much which caused her to look dour at times. So, her "insecurity" was somewhat of a good thing as she was able to make a pragmatic decision about what to do about it.
> 
> I think we probably all agree that the decisions to have PS sit on a bell shaped curve. At one end, there is the group that get PS due to medical necessity, such as breast cancer, burns, etc. On the other end may be the ones who are obsessed with looks, suffer from body dysmorphic disorder, and may be psychiatrically compromised. Then as you move to the middle of the spectrum, you have the Swankys, the Jills, and the other very normal, healthy, centered women who decide that they don't really like something so they change it or have it fixed. And I would venture to say the majority of the women on this forum fall into that group as well, which is why they are genuinely perplexed at the word "insecurity" being used because that just does not fit how they feel about themselves and their decisions relative to PS.
Click to expand...


----------



## Irishgal

HauteMama said:


> Irishgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to have to look up that article. It never occurred to me that attractiveness (the desire to be so) could be "hard wired". Humans did not evolve with mirrors. Yes, we can see the difference between our bodies and the bodies of others, but we also know that the standards of attractiveness have changed depending on the society.
> 
> Statues of women considered "beautiful" in the past usually had a gentle swell in the abdomen and smaller breasts (definitely not high and rounded). In the distant past, statues were carved of the embodiment of fertility, and they were usually overweight with pendulous breasts. Of course, there were also clothing fads that enhanced a small waist or larger hips. But my point is that being hardwired to be willing to risk one's life (ANY surgery is a risk, even having a tooth extracted) to meet a temporary standard of beauty seems to be a risky evolutionary quality.
> 
> So while a healthy appearance and a symmetrical face and body is inherently more attractive (a healthy mate is more likely to produce healthy offspring), standards of weight, breast appearance, skin color (in the sense of having a tan or not having a tan being a sign of health and/or wealth) and other things are almost entirely a societal construct. It makes sense that people want to look like one another, or the majority, because we are essentially social creatures who depend on societies for our well-being. But it would seem odd to me, perhaps because I am NOT a psychologist, to be *hardwired to go to extremes to try to meet ever changing standards.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not indicate that the article said that we were hardwired to go to extremes. Simply, the case is being made that people have some degree (and it varies person to person depending on genetics, etc) to desire to be attractive.
Click to expand...


----------



## KristyDarling

Irishgal said:


> I think we probably all agree that the decisions to have PS sit on a bell shaped curve. At one end, there is the group that get PS due to medical necessity, such as breast cancer, burns, etc. On the other end may be the ones who are obsessed with looks, suffer from body dysmorphic disorder, and may be psychiatrically compromised. Then as you move to the middle of the spectrum, you have the Swankys, the Jills, and the other very normal, healthy, centered women who decide that they don't really like something so they change it or have it fixed. And I would venture to say the majority of the women on this forum fall into that group as well, which is why they are genuinely perplexed at the word "insecurity" being used because that just does not fit how they feel about themselves and their decisions relative to PS.


Thank you!  I love reading a reasonable, balanced, perceptive, sensitive, open-minded, modest, and well-articulated post. Bagnshoo, VLL, Swanky, vhdos -- thank you, too!


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Irishgal said:


> I did not indicate that the article said that we were hardwired to go to extremes. Simply, the case is being made that people have some degree (and it varies person to person depending on genetics, etc) to desire to be attractive.



and we can expound on this point forever!  culturally, there are hundreds of views on what people consider attractive.  in this thread, we are only considering the US.  when you break it down in tribes, talk about extremes.  but it comes down to the same point, people in general are concerned about aesthetics but the reasons run the gamut when you look at the big worldwide picture....beauty is subjective to ones cultural upbringing.  ours just happens to be about boobs and smooth faces!  
people do go to extremes.  It brings to mind some of the women in African and Asian cultures who elongate their necks.  Its all about beauty to them and from a very young age, girls can't wait to do this:




point being, human beings are inclined to enhance themselves in whatever way they see fit.  however it pleases ones eye.  theres a big world out there who probably thinks what we do here is nothing compared to what others do.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

I agree with what's been said and would never criticise anybody who wishes to undergo PS as I have not walked in their shoes.

BUT on a more general and impersonal level it does make me wonder about what 'feminism' means nowadays. It does strike me sometimes that it now can mean that women are empowered to be able to do what they want (including PS) especially as their earning capacity has increased dramatically over the last 30 years or so. Women are now increasingly viewed as 'a sales opportunity' (imo) and tbh, I find this disturbing.

Sorry about being a bit OT.....


----------



## Ellie Mae

bagnshoofetish said:


> wow.  I am emotionally drained reading all these posts!
> 
> *why anyone chooses to get something done surgically is just none of my business.  *Unless you walk a mile in someones shoes, you just cannot judge them.  Sometimes it saddens me that someone is so unhappy with their appearance but growing up a rather homely kid, I completely understand.  If thats what people feel they need to do, go for it.  I will always do my part to make that person feel good on the inside no matter what.



THANK YOU!  I have not even been able to follow this thread, as I cannot comprehend WHY one person's decision to have PS would be anyone else's business, IN THE FIRST PLACE.  Or why one person would think they had any right to question or rationalize another person's decision to have PS. Or deem them shallow or insecure.
And to be bluntly honest, I'd have to give some thought as to who appeared more insecure and/or shallow..... KWIM?


----------



## KristyDarling

^^^ Ellie, I do KWYM!!!!  Sooo true. Why does anyone care so much that they have to try THAT hard to convince me and others here that we are "insecure?" What's it to them? The only answer that makes sense, is that egos need to be fed.  I am the *only* person in the world who really knows me. Period.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

I used to be insecure, but.......does my bum look big in this?


----------



## Bella

Elective surgery? Yes.  Extreme?  That's relative.  I chose to do this for me and only me.  Believe it or not it has nothing do with how men, women or society views me.  If no person ever saw them touched them again, fine, *I* feel good about them.  I've run into people over the years who never would have guessed I had a BA.  They fit my frame and quite frankly, look natural.  They don't feel like natural breasts because hey, they're not.  I just smile when I hear people/men say they prefer natural breasts.  Hello!  Me too, me too, but wishing only got me so far. lol  Weighing everything, BA was for me and I have no regrets.


----------



## vhdos

^I am going to have to respectfully disagree with those of you who claim that men and/or society has played no role in your decision to get a BA.  Yes, I agree that women do it for themselves, but society determines what's attractive.  You wouldn't need to feel bad for having small breasts if society/men didn't make you feel like your breasts were somehow inadequate.  So, yes, BA is a _very_ personal decision, but to say that it has absolutely nothing to do with society is simply not true.


----------



## Swanky

you can disagree, obviously  But you're incorrect in my case.  My boobs were D's BEFORE I got implants - I'm the same size now.
Has absolutely nothing to do w/ men or society.


----------



## vhdos

^so implants changed the shape?  Meaning that maybe before kids they were a rounder, perkier D?  Isn't society dictating that round, full, perky breast are attractive?  It's all part of anti-aging in a sense.  Round, full, perky boobs are considered to be young and attractive, whereas flat, saggy boobs, at any size, are considered old.  What if we lived in a society where flat, saggy breasts were considered attractive?  Then would you have felt a desire to change your breasts after having children?  Or would your desire still be there to want them back to the way they were before having children?  KWIM?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about implants and I understand that the reasons behind it are very different for everyone


----------



## Swanky

There's so many posts in this thread you probably didn't see or don't remember why I got them.
They were big before, and very perky IMO for their size.  3 pregnancies and 3 children nursing later they went from a DD to a D but were very droopy... so much so my DD asked if I was feeding the twins from my belly button.
I just wanted my old ones back.  It's very hard to fit big saggy ones into a bra properly and I didn't feel like me that much anymore.  So I fixed it.  For me.  In clothing you can't tell I did anything, it wasn't about how I thought other people thought they looked, it was about me having trouble holding them up, fitting them in bras/swimsuits and how **I** felt about them.
I think there's as many people in society that prefer A's and B's as there are that prefer C'd & D's. . .  JMO.  Fashion certainly prefers a smaller cup size - look at couture clothing.
If I were a B pre-pregnancy and had the same degree of sagging, I'd have done the EXACT same thing, get them picked up and kept them a B cup.  It was never about going bigger or wanting them to look bolted on.


----------



## Ellie Mae

I have an SIL who had implants in her 30's.  Stunning blond, almost 6' tall.  One of her biggest complaints was clothes not fitting.  She could NOT buy a dress.
FLAT "A" chest - no boobs, yet she had curvy hips.  Truly just disproportionate.  
And now she is a C cup, and is better proportioned.  She looks FABULOUS, but she also just looks RIGHT and better proportioned.  Her boobs now match her hips.
It's not always about what OTHERS see.  Sometimes it's simply about what WE see in the mirror when we look at ourselves.  And IMO, there is not anything wrong w/ improving what we like or dislike about ourselves.


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

bagnshoofetish said:


> My DH can't stand the way fake boobs look and he is the one who has convinced me to never get them at a time I just threw the idea out there for fun.
> 
> Thing is, she does not look bad to me - she's still the homecoming queen in my eyes. She told me one day she's considering a face lift and a boob lift and I told her "NO! Your'e going to look like the cat lady! Don't do anything!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to put you on the spot. But you say what I read alot on here.
> 
> Why does everyone think fake boobs have a 'look' or when someone does something to their faces they are going to look horrible?
> 
> Boobs in the 80's did. They have changed the implants & the way they are done. Chances are if they look bad, these women are still carrying around the ones they had put in the 80's. I've had both, you can't really tell the new ones are fake. Except they look so dang good.
> 
> And face lifts. Actually I should not even use that word. A excellent doctor will customize what they do for you. Not just take your face off & yank the skin up. Good ones you can't even tell. People go around saying how great someone looks, how well they age. They had a wonderful doctor who turned back the clock a few years. And they paid alot of money to look that good. So you'd just think they got lucky & won the DNA lottery on aging.
> 
> Anyone see Christie Brinkley when she was fighting with her ex in court? She is a gorgeous woman but the sun exposure & the years were doing a toll on her. Look at her now! She looks like herself but 30 years ago. That is what an excellent PS can do. Can't buy that in a bottle.
> 
> The lion lady has a problem. As do a couple of casino owners & entertainers in Las Vegas. People don't need to look bad after PS, these people are overdoing it.
Click to expand...


----------



## Cornflower Blue

Ellie Mae, but you just said she was 'Truely just disproportionate' so that surely means that she was being judged by someone else and it wasn't _only_ her who thought she would look better being enhanced?

I don't know, round and round we go. I'm blaming Charles  - it was his throwaway comment about why aren't we burning our bras or something that set me off in an other direction altogether...:feminist:


----------



## vhdos

Thanks for clarifying Swank.  I can certainly understand just wanting things to be the way the were before kids.  I have two kids myself so I can relate.
It's still my opinion that society plays a larger role than some of us would like to admit, but I can respect the fact that the driving force is different for everyone.
Also, I agree with vega long legs about the "look" of implants.  I think BA has advanced to the point where it's sometimes difficult to tell, even by feel.  Sure, there are those women who prefer an obvious, large, round, high boob job, but the majority of the ones I see are proportionate and "natural" looking.  I guess that makes sense for my demographic though - upper 30's/40's, married with kids.  This group seems to be more conservative and/or realistic when it comes to BA.  Whereas, the 20-somethings tend to be a little more flashy.  I don't know the overall statistics though and those are just my observations.


----------



## Charles

gillianna said:


> Charles,
> You posted in a past thread how you would NOT allow your son to shave until he was a certain age. So if he wanted to shave to make himself feel well groomed and
> perhaps more confident you would NOT allow it. To me this is passing your opinions on feeling he should live with hair on his face as no choice of his own and seems very controlling. You posted you were not allowed to shave until you were a certain age. My son is 13 and he and most of his friends shave--they have hair on their face and to me it is OK for my son to shave.
> What would be wrong for your son wanting to do something like shaving which would change his appearance but is pretty much a normal everyday thing for most guys who do not have beards??? Do you feel your son has to live with facial hair until a certain age because you did or because you personally like having facial hair?



If I recall, that was in the thread about letting a young girl shave so she didn't have to deal with the teasing of her friends.  The OP was the girl's grandmother and the girl's mother was firmly against letting her daughter shave, yet a lot of the posters encouraged the OP to let the girl shave, and she ended up letting her.  I firmly disagreed too.  In that case, I felt that instead of "caving in" to these teasing young girls, the OP should have taken it as an opportunity to instill some confidence in her g-daughter by helping her get over what the girls were saying.  And like this thread, I thought the shaving was a band-aid.  Yes, it might have quieted the girls for now, but it didn't address how to handle situations like that in the future.  It laid the ground work for this girl to cater to the masses to avoid teasing instead of being happy with herself.
In regards to my son, yes, if he came to me now and said he wanted to shave, cause his friends were teasing him, I'd probably not let him, instead I'd try to tell him that he shouldn't worry about what his friends say and that he looks handsome as he is.  Explain how shaving is a pain, etc, etc.  Then, once it became an actual problem (cause right now his facial hair isn't excessive), we could discuss it then.  That has nothing to do with me restricting him cause I was restricted.  I had to wait until I was 17 or 18, and at that time, I legitimately had a need to shave.  I had a job and my facial hair was noticeable.
So yes, that is a case of me passing on my opinions to him, but that's what parenting is about.  I have a lot of opinions that I've passed to him.  Don't be rude.  Humor is a good trait.  Treat people with respect, etc, etc.


----------



## Ellie Mae

Cornflower Blue said:


> *Ellie Mae, but you just said she was 'Truely just disproportionate' so that surely means that she was being judged by someone else and it wasn't only her who thought she would look better being enhanced?
> *
> I don't know, round and round we go. I'm blaming Charles  - it was his throwaway comment about why aren't we burning our bras or something that set me off in an other direction altogether...:feminist:


I hear what you are saying, VLL.  But, I don't think so.   My SIL could not even go buy a cocktail or evening dress without having MAJOR alterations to the top of the dress.  Everything she bought had to be bought as "separates".  And she truly was not happy w/ the difference in upper and lower sizes that she saw in the mirror.  
Did her disproportions make HER more self-conscious of her appearance?  YES.  But not to any detriment.  She was a very confidant and successful woman prior to PS.   Her DH could have cared less.  Her family could have cared less.  But when she decided to have implants, everyone was very supportive.  
Her PS was about what SHE saw in the mirror.  It took her years to make this decision.  It was definitely about what SHE saw of herself.  And her frustration w/ buying clothes.


----------



## merika

Vegas Long Legs said:


> Not to put you on the spot. But you say what I read alot on here.
> 
> Why does everyone think fake boobs have a 'look' or when someone does something to their faces they are going to look horrible?
> 
> Boobs in the 80's did. They have changed the implants & the way they are done. Chances are if they look bad, these women are still carrying around the ones they had put in the 80's. I've had both, you can't really tell the new ones are fake. Except they look so dang good.
> 
> And face lifts. Actually I should not even use that word. A excellent doctor will customize what they do for you. Not just take your face off & yank the skin up. Good ones you can't even tell. People go around saying how great someone looks, how well they age. They had a wonderful doctor who turned back the clock a few years. And they paid alot of money to look that good. So you'd just think they got lucky & won the DNA lottery on aging.
> 
> Anyone see Christie Brinkley when she was fighting with her ex in court? She is a gorgeous woman but the sun exposure & the years were doing a toll on her. Look at her now! She looks like herself but 30 years ago. That is what an excellent PS can do. Can't buy that in a bottle.
> 
> The lion lady has a problem. As do a couple of casino owners & entertainers in Las Vegas. People don't need to look bad after PS, these people are overdoing it.



So does this mean that our whole concept of 'ageing' is changing because of society and what is available to delay it?  If you look at an 80 year old woman today, in most cases it's possible to guess her age within plus or minus 5 or 6 years, unless she is suffering from a terrible illness.  I wonder whether the appearance of an 80 year old in the future will be remarkably different...

I am also curious as to how older people with PS/BA  deal with other signs of aging in their bodies when they are much older - in their late 60s - 70s.  Perky tatas with wrinkly cleavage? Is there ever a time when things don't exactly 'match' all over anymore and _then_ how do you deal?


----------



## vhdos

^^^^I know a few older women who chose just to have their implants removed after they reached a certain age.  Once the implants are removed, the breasts just become saggy and flat, not unlike the normal aging of breast tissue.  Also, just because you have implants, doesn't necessarily mean that your boobs are sky-high and perky.  Obviously, they would keep their "shape" better, but under clothing and in a bra, who can really tell anyways?  It's not like I've seen lots of 80 year-olds in deep v-neck tops, showing off their cleavages...


----------



## merika

vhdos said:


> ^^^^I know a few older women who chose just to have their implants removed after they reached a certain age.  Once the implants are removed, the breasts just become saggy and flat, not unlike the normal aging of breast tissue.  Also, just because you have implants, doesn't necessarily mean that your boobs are sky-high and perky.  Obviously, they would keep their "shape" better, but under clothing and in a bra, who can really tell anyways?*  It's not like I've seen lots of 80 year-olds in deep v-neck tops, showing off their cleavages...*



Yeah, sure...but this is sort of assuming that women do it to 'show off' right?  I'm thinking about everyone's general self-inspection in the bathroom mirror after a shower, sort of.  The thoughts that some parts of your body are well preserved and shapely while others are not, and technology hasn't got to the point where your whole body can look 30 years younger, only some bits of you...


----------



## Ellie Mae

vhdos said:


> ^^^^I know a few older women who chose just to have their implants removed after they reached a certain age.  Once the implants are removed, the breasts just become saggy and flat, not unlike the normal aging of breast tissue.  Also, just because you have implants, doesn't necessarily mean that your boobs are sky-high and perky.  Obviously, they would keep their "shape" better, but under clothing and in a bra, who can really tell anyways? * It's not like I've seen lots of 80 year-olds in deep v-neck tops, showing off their cleavages*...



LOL.. or their no-longer-recognizable tatoos!
It's ALL about personal preference and personal desire, IMO.


----------



## vhdos

I read a story recently from a Board certified Plastic Surgeon in California who had a 75 year-old woman come in to his office for a consultation.  He assumed that she was there for a face lift and she surprised him by asking for a breast augmentation.  After meeting with her twice, and consulting with her primary care physician, he deemed that she was perfectly healthy both physically and mentally so he went ahead with the procedure.  Apparently, she was back on the dating scene again and wanted larger breasts.  I guess you're never too old to enjoy a nice set of boobies!


----------



## Charles

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> seriously! It's your opinion Charles, not gospel.



It's not my opinion...it's fact.

"As a general statement, most women&#8217;s motivations for plastic surgery are true self-image issues. They want to fell better about themselves. Correcting a physical flaw is one approach to self-improvement. (and perhaps the easiest?)"

You can find quotes like that all over the web in relation to PS.



natmk28 said:


> I didn't want to respond to this thread anymore, because frankly its just all a little much for me and I said what I wanted to say about 10 pages back, but I had to respond to this.
> 
> I've got to say that  a lot of women don't get them for men. If/when i get them it will be for me, entirely. My bf and likely one day husband is pretty emphatically against the decision, but at the same time understands, or at least will have to come to understand, that it IS my body and my choice.
> 
> I also decisively do not attach my attractiveness to my boob size. I think Im gorgeous when I wake up the morning. Does that stop me from working out, putting on my make up, wearing nice clothes? No. There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve upon something you already love; a woman can think she is beautiful and still desire change.
> 
> And I don't think calling all those who get them shallow is necessary at all, everyone is shallow in their own ways, sure some more than others, but exactly who are you to judge?



Can you point out where I said all PS is done to please men or where I said that all women who get PS are shallow?

As for the rest, I'm not disagreeing with you.  Go back and read what I've said.  I never said a beautiful women can't want a change for that people who think they're attractive still work out or groom themselves, now do I feel I'm judging them, so I'm a little confused by your post.  I simply said I'd not date a girl with PS.  That's all.  I have friends who have PS and they're great friends and people.  Just as getting PS seems to be a personal prerogative, this is a personal issue for me.  I dislike the way society shapes ideal images for humans, and typically, the most pressure to meet those standards are on women.  I don't agree with that, and feel PS is a tool in the machine of media and society to get, mostly women, to alter themselves to meet that image.


----------



## vegisvegis

I can't believe this thread is for real.

If breast implants makes someone feel happier and more confident, then who is to judge what they choose to do with their body? You simply can't put a price on happiness. 

For instance, I run a lot everyday and it's not all for "health" reasons. Keeping a slim body and perky booty boosts my confidence and makes me feel good about myself. I spend a fortune on skin care products so I have glowing, youthful skin. Are these not "implants" in one way or the other on my body for a nicer appearance? Whatever minor or drastic "changes" I want on my body is only because I want to look good and there is nothing wrong or unusual about that.


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

Ellie Mae said:


> I hear what you are saying, VLL. But, I don't think so. My SIL could not even go buy a cocktail or evening dress without having MAJOR alterations to the top of the dress. Everything she bought had to be bought as "separates". And she truly was not happy w/ the difference in upper and lower sizes that she saw in the mirror.
> Did her disproportions make HER more self-conscious of her appearance? YES. But not to any detriment. She was a very confidant and successful woman prior to PS. Her DH could have cared less. Her family could have cared less. But when she decided to have implants, everyone was very supportive.
> Her PS was about what SHE saw in the mirror. It took her years to make this decision. It was definitely about what SHE saw of herself. And her frustration w/ buying clothes.


 
I totally understand why she'd get implants. Think you mean Cornflower Blue rather than me.


I've seen some 90+ year old women here in Vegas with face lifts. (Know how old these ladies are cause they are Vegas celebrities & their age is known.) When you get to be 90 does anyone say gosh you look not a day over 75? Or do they not even comment about age? Maybe someday if I live that long, will find out. 

I've met some old show girls who had implants from the 50/60's it did look like they had taken them out. Never seen an older (70+) woman with implants.  I do think most women take them out.


----------



## Swanky

I still don't agree Charles.  Just because a comment is found on multiple PS's websites does not make it FACT.

Fact.

As per usual, I'm agreeing to disagree w/ you


----------



## Ellie Mae

Vegas Long Legs said:


> I totally understand why she'd get implants. Think you mean Cornflower Blue rather than me.



Yep, sorry... I can't quote and talk at the same time!!


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Vegas Long Legs said:


> Why does everyone think fake boobs have a 'look' or when someone does something to their faces they are going to look horrible?



Maybe because I live in the PS capital of the world, LA.  I see facial work and boob work here on a daily basis and for some reason, I can just tell when someones had work or who has a boob job.  Its like anything else I guess, you just learn what to look for cause you see it so much.  But for all I know, there are faces and boobs out there that are done so well I don't notice them but they seem to be in the minority.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

merika said:


> I am also curious as to how older people with PS/BA  deal with other signs of aging in their bodies when they are much older - in their late 60s - 70s.  Perky tatas with wrinkly cleavage? Is there ever a time when things don't exactly 'match' all over anymore and _then_ how do you deal?



This is a mindset I've always been curious about as well.  Why shoot for a smooth face when your neck is going to give you away?  or your hands?  or something?  There is just this unbalance that looks like one is fighting a losing battle.  Personally, I'm going to strive for everything to look as uniform as possible!  I just don't think I can fight mother nature and make it believable!    But thats just me now.  Ask me again when I'm 65...


----------



## Bella

Ellie Mae said:


> I have an SIL who had implants in her 30's.  Stunning blond, almost 6' tall.  One of her biggest complaints was clothes not fitting.  She could NOT buy a dress.
> FLAT "A" chest - no boobs, yet she had curvy hips.  Truly just disproportionate.
> And now she is a C cup, and is better proportioned.  She looks FABULOUS, but she also just looks RIGHT and better proportioned.  Her boobs now match her hips.
> It's not always about what OTHERS see.  Sometimes it's simply about what WE see in the mirror when we look at ourselves.  And IMO, there is not anything wrong w/ improving what we like or dislike about ourselves.



Bingo!!


----------



## Bella

bagnshoofetish said:


> Maybe because I live in the PS capital of the world, LA.  I see facial work and boob work here on a daily basis and for some reason, I can just tell when someones had work or who has a boob job.  Its like anything else I guess, you just learn what to look for cause you see it so much.  But for all I know, there are faces and *boobs out there that are done so well I don't notice them but they seem to be in the minority*.



Grew up in OC.. If I didn't already tell you so  I'd bet you couldn't tell mine were a BJ... well maybe if I gave you a big hug! lol  I have some meat on my bones and am now just proportioned.  I look great!! 

... and I was never completely happy or satisfied with what I was given in that area, but _never_ felt inadequate, I think there's a big difference.  Insecurity can come from within and isn't just based on what others might think is attractive.  I care about how I feel about me.  Being younger and up I said to myself often, _"I'm not so sure about these.."_ so I did something about it, yay for me... and now I'm preeeetty darn sure.   It has everything to do with me and only me.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Bella said:


> Grew up in OC.. If I didn't already tell you so  I'd bet you couldn't tell mine were a BJ... well maybe if I gave you a big hug! lol  I have some meat on my bones and am now just proportioned.  I look great!!



you'll have to let me cop a feel next time I see ya!    J/K!!!  love you!


----------



## BigPurseSue

Cornflower Blue said:


> I agree with what's been said and would never criticise anybody who wishes to undergo PS as I have not walked in their shoes.
> 
> BUT on a more general and impersonal level it does make me wonder about what 'feminism' means nowadays. It does strike me sometimes that it now can mean that women are empowered to be able to do what they want (including PS) especially as their earning capacity has increased dramatically over the last 30 years or so. Women are now increasingly viewed as 'a sales opportunity' (imo) and tbh, I find this disturbing.
> 
> Sorry about being a bit OT.....


 
Judith Warner of the NY Times recently wrote an interesting column speculating on how it came to be that the National Organization of Women was a vocal advocate against proposed taxes on elective cosmetic surgery as a means to finance health care reform:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/bo-tax-backlash/

Their position certainly makes one wonder. Yet I remember back in the '70s and '80s when NOW and women's health activists were pressuring insurance companies to cover the cost of breast reconstruction and implants for women who had undergone breast cancer surgery. It is thanks to their efforts that there is now legislation requiring insurance companies to pick up the cost. Perhaps their position on PS these days is an outgrowth of the campaigns back then?

I knew an older women who had implants back in the 1970s because of breast cancer. They were small, very subtle. She had to pay for them herself--a pricey undertaking--and there were raised eyebrows among her friends and coworkers--even among other breast cancer patients.  

It is one of the great achievements of the women's movement that women are allowed to do as they wish with their bodies--to make their own decisions, to question their doctors. We didn't always have that right and even today women are not granted that freedom in every society.  As a feminist I am deeply torn about PS; I believe women should love their bodies as they are, and by extension our culture should too. Yet the freedom to do as we please with our bodies is equally critical and should not be taken for granted.


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

Bella said:


> Grew up in OC.. If I didn't already tell you so  I'd bet you couldn't tell mine were a BJ... well maybe if I gave you a big hug! lol I have some meat on my bones and am now just proportioned. I look great!!
> 
> ... and I was never completely happy or satisfied with what I was given in that area, but _never_ felt inadequate, I think there's a big difference. Insecurity can come from within and isn't just based on what others might think is attractive. I care about how I feel about me. Being younger and up I said to myself often, _"I'm not so sure about these.."_ so I did something about it, yay for me... and now I'm preeeetty darn sure.  It has everything to do with me and only me.


 

Good for you Bella. This is how most BA & face jobs are done now, so people can't tell. The technology has changed on how these are done. 

(Bags, I was only using what you stated as an example. I live in the gambeling capital of the world yet I wouldn't know a Texas hold'em game from Black Jack, unless I was told. Seeing it doesn't make me a professional. Being open minded & experiencing it would.) Per population, Vegas is up there with LA as a PS capital.    

See it alot of here 'fake' breast & the judgement that a woman who chooses a face lift is for sure going to end up looking like lion lady. (Has anyone ever read how many surgeries that woman has had?
She's a PS addict, going in every year or less to have the same thing redone. She's not someone who's had a face list once & was pleased.) Wonder if these are even posted by women who have the experience to know the difference. The experience comes from doing it yourself or having freinds that have had it done & are willing to share what they've done. 

This thread has been a eye opening experience on peoples judgement of others. Thanks for the insight


----------



## vhdos

The "Lion Woman" you are referring to has had reportedly $4 million in PS.  

Also, I just wanted to add that PS varies by location.  What's popular in one region may not be in another.  For example, larger implants may be more prevalent in places like Miami, LA, etc. while more conservative sizes may be the norm elsewhere in the country.  This affects the "look" of PS.  Most of the BA's I see around me are more conservative, which means that in some cases, I may not even be able to tell if a woman has had a BA.


----------



## Swanky

Dallas women are also big into altering their looks - like the areas mentioned.
The PS's here are pretty good "artists" as it's not normal at all here to really look worked on.  Moms in their 40s & 50s are often more attractive than their much younger DD's and it's not because of obvious PS or cosmetic procedures that aren't surgery.


----------



## Fredette

As a bustier lady myself, the kind of sentiment expressed in the original post tends to make me roll my eyes. Why is surgery only allowed for function over form? According to some people, me getting a reduction is A OKAY as long as I said it was because my back hurt.. nevermind that I considered a reduction once upon a time because I simply didn't like the way they looked.

I also get frustrated at the 'ra ra' character-building argument as some sort of alternative. I'm thankful my parents did not subscribe to that school of thought. When I was 3 years old I got struck by a car and my nose was flattened. Even though my nose still FUNCTIONED properly, they got me in to surgery and had my nose fixed as soon as possible. 

It is perfectly possible to like yourself and have a healthy self-esteem and STILL want to look a certain way. It's perfectly natural and HUMAN to want to change something about yourself if you feel it's not normal or whatever. As humans we want to fit in. I think it's ignorant and insulting to insinuate that the desire to fit in is somehow a character defect rather than a simple part of the human condition.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

BigPurseSue said:


> Judith Warner of the NY Times recently wrote an interesting column speculating on how it came to be that the National Organization of Women was a vocal advocate against proposed taxes on elective cosmetic surgery as a means to finance health care reform:
> 
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/bo-tax-backlash/
> 
> Their position certainly makes one wonder. Yet I remember back in the '70s and '80s when NOW and women's health activists were pressuring insurance companies to cover the cost of breast reconstruction and implants for women who had undergone breast cancer surgery. It is thanks to their efforts that there is now legislation requiring insurance companies to pick up the cost. Perhaps their position on PS these days is an outgrowth of the campaigns back then?
> 
> I knew an older women who had implants back in the 1970s because of breast cancer. They were small, very subtle. She had to pay for them herself--a pricey undertaking--and there were raised eyebrows among her friends and coworkers--even among other breast cancer patients.
> 
> It is one of the great achievements of the women's movement that women are allowed to do as they wish with their bodies--to make their own decisions, to question their doctors. We didn't always have that right and even today women are not granted that freedom in every society.  As a feminist I am deeply torn about PS; I believe women should love their bodies as they are, and by extension our culture should too. Yet the freedom to do as we please with our bodies is equally critical and should not be taken for granted.




Thanks for the interesting article - some of the reader comments were very interesting too.  Lots of food for thought....


----------



## slayer

Hey if you can afford them and want to get them for your  own reasons then good for you!
Personally I would not want anything that made me weigh even more when it's hard enough to get the rotten scales to shift lower now.


----------



## Charles

Fredette said:


> I also get frustrated at the 'ra ra' character-building argument as some sort of alternative. I'm thankful my parents did not subscribe to that school of thought. When I was 3 years old I got struck by a car and my nose was flattened. Even though my nose still FUNCTIONED properly, they got me in to surgery and had my nose fixed as soon as possible.
> 
> It is perfectly possible to like yourself and have a healthy self-esteem and STILL want to look a certain way. It's perfectly natural and HUMAN to want to change something about yourself if you feel it's not normal or whatever. As humans we want to fit in. I think it's ignorant and insulting to insinuate that the desire to fit in is somehow a character defect rather than a simple part of the human condition.



And that's the difference.  When you were 3, you had a nose that didn't look, "normal".  In a way, it was a defect.  That's not the same as wanting something done, purely for cosmetic reasons.  Most women's breasts are not defective when they get a BA.  They get it done purely to make them more attractive.
You last comment...well, that can be debated.  I prefer the idea to embrace individuality somewhat, you don't.  I could easily say you're ignorant if you don't see the importance of NOT fitting in.  Do you want to live in a world of clones?  So it can go both ways.  Besides, I wasn't calling someone ignorant for wanting to fit in.  I was concerned with the extent
 to which they'd go in order to fit in, and I've said that multiple times, so I'm not sure how people keep overlooking that.
If you're going to attempt to reply to me and chastise me for my ideas, please read what I write, instead of jumping to conclusions.


----------



## gillianna

What happend when you have to have your implants replaced after XX number of years?  Yes, the websites say they should be replaced after a certain number of years. Has anyone done this?  The reason I ask is after researching for my friend who is getting her implants out due to medical problems with them it seems like you have to get the whole implants out with the capsuel (sp) and any scar tissue that builds up around it.  Another person in the medical field feels my friend is going to be covered with scar tissue because the body has built up cells to protect her body from the implants which her body was rejecting for years.  Now my friend is very worried that this is not going to be such a simple surgery to just take implants out but now muscle and tissue are involved.  She is kind of freaking out-any advice for her????


----------



## vhdos

gillianna said:


> What happend when you have to have your implants replaced after XX number of years?  Yes, the websites say they should be replaced after a certain number of years. Has anyone done this?  The reason I ask is after researching for my friend who is getting her implants out due to medical problems with them it seems like you have to get the whole implants out with the capsuel (sp) and any scar tissue that builds up around it.  Another person in the medical field feels my friend is going to be covered with scar tissue because the body has built up cells to protect her body from the implants which her body was rejecting for years.  Now my friend is very worried that this is not going to be such a simple surgery to just take implants out but now muscle and tissue are involved.  She is kind of freaking out-any advice for her????



Does your friend have capsular contracture? Is she having her implants replaced or just removed?  
Sometimes, doctors will perform a procedure called capsulectomy when implants are removed.  Capsulectomy is the removal of the capsule or scar tissue that has formed around the implants.  It requires a larger incision and costs more money.  The capsule is only removed if the benefits of removing it outweigh the risks of leaving it behind.  If your friend is not having her implants replaced, then they will probably want to remove the capsules so that they don't interfere with mammography.


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> Dallas women are also big into altering their looks - like the areas mentioned.
> The PS's here are pretty good "artists" as it's not normal at all here to really look worked on. Moms in their 40s & 50s are often more attractive than their much younger DD's and it's not because of obvious PS or cosmetic procedures that aren't surgery.


 

^^ITA! That is funny you say that. The young men at my health club have stated out loud, "this is an alternative universe, all the women that are gorgeous & in shape here are over 40.  

The technology that the PS's use now is so advanced, even more so in the last 10 years. Facial work is customized & many times with minimal bruising. Now its not so tramatic, they work on what you need done. not jsut taking your face off (basically) & yanking the skin up.    

Had a friend whose mom got a face lift in 1987. She looked beat up really bad while healing. Oozing stiches all around her face, it was very gross.


----------



## Swanky

LOL, YES! It's almost comical!


----------



## jpgoeth

I'll throw my 2 cents in...

I don't think there's anything wrong with PS of any kind.  Everyone does things to alter their appearance every day.  We shave, color our hair, use rogaine, apply pimple cream and makeup, dress in flattering clothing.  It's a personal choice, and I am all about supporting choice.  I would never think less of someone who's had work done... it doesn't affect ME in any way.  If I don't like it, I don't have to do it.  I hope no one thinks less of ME because I choose to wear makeup and color my hair.  

On the flip side, I'll say that when I was in college and subscribed to a different brand of feminism, I thought just the idea of PS was gross.  I mean, why should women alter their bodies to better fit the male barbie doll fantasy of femininity?   And it was my opinion that women who voluntarily went under the knife for cosmetic reasons were weak; bowing to the patriarchy.  Obviously I have a different view now, but I think that this line of reasoning is very common in young women (say 25 or younger).


----------



## jpgoeth

And I don't want to "start" anything, but Charles - I find some of your comments and tone condescending.  I mean honestly - if you had a really small wiener and there was a relatively easy way to fix it and make it more "normal sized" would you keep it roll-of-dimes small for the sake of maintaining diversity in wieners?  

I'll also say that I DO get your point but disagree


----------



## NoraV

I'm still waiting on those peer-reviewed psychology studies concerning the mentality of plastic surgery patients to be posted here.

As far as my opinion is concerned, I don't care what other people choose to do with their bodies. Tattoos, piercings, boob jobs, dye jobs, powerlifting until your arms are the size of tree trunks, whatever. It's none of my business and frankly I'd need to reevaluate my priorities if I found that I had enough time to care about what other people do to keep themselves happy. And to totally discount a person based on some physical feature or what they choose to do or not do in terms of physical appearance? I'm afraid that's the definition of shallow.


----------



## mmmsc

jpgoeth said:


> And I don't want to "start" anything, but Charles - I find some of your comments and tone condescending.  I mean honestly - if you had a really small wiener and there was a relatively easy way to fix it and make it more "normal sized" would you keep it roll-of-dimes small for the sake of maintaining diversity in wieners?
> 
> I'll also say that I DO get your point but disagree


LOL, "roll-of-dimes small." Good one, jpgoeth. You are probably right about how many weiner augmentations there would be if it was as easy as BA  It kind of reminds me of the old saying "if men could get pregnant, we would have immediate laws passed for free birth control and free abortions," right?


----------



## vhdos

jpgoeth said:


> And I don't want to "start" anything, but Charles - I find some of your comments and tone condescending.  I mean honestly - if you had a really small wiener and there was a relatively easy way to fix it and make it more "normal sized" would you keep it roll-of-dimes small for the sake of maintaining diversity in wieners?
> 
> I'll also say that I DO get your point but disagree



This is exactly right.  We all know that there would be men lining up if penis enlargement was a simple, straight-forward procedure with few complications. 
Also, I was watching a program the other night about sex/reproduction and evolution that was pretty interesting.  They talked about how female chimps would let male chimps know that they were in heat by their engorged/swollen rumps.  With evolution, and standing on two feet, the engorged rump became tipped forward and was no longer a visible characteristic of reproduction.  In humans, the breasts (much like the swollen rumps) became a visible symbol of reproduction and the ability to successfully nourish an offspring.  This kind of ties in with what irishgal was saying in her earlier posts.  Perhaps a desire for larger breasts stems more from a hard-wired need to attract a mate and produce offspring, more so than societal pressures and/or insecurity?  Just food for thought.


----------



## nathansgirl1908

I'm not a huge fan of plastic surgery unless there has been some type of disfigurement or sickness.  Despite the success stories, I just think the risks are too high to engage in that type of procedure unless necessary.  I understand women as they age get concerned about sagging boobs.  I just don't always understand why they think it requires surgical correction.  Simply getting a good bra would probably work wonders.  And I say that without any sarcasm.  I just don't get it.  But then I am someone who tries to avoid going under the knife because once you start having surgery, you just fall into a cycle of feeling like you need something else done. And I also don't like to go through unnecessary pain and suffering.

When I was in my teens, I definitely had self-esteem issues concerning my looks.  I think most people at that age have that problem.  But I grew out of that and as I get older, I learn more and more to appreciate who I am, flaws and all.  I think it truly shows confidence when you can look at yourself in the mirror and be happy with who you are, despite sagging, roots, etc.  As someone else said, I think we would ALL be much better off if society would do this as a whole. 

As for face lifts and botox, they both scare me considerably.  Besides, I think there are preventive measures that can be taken to combat some of the issues that people address with plastic surgery.


----------



## Cornflower Blue

jpgoeth said:


> I'll throw my 2 cents in...
> 
> I don't think there's anything wrong with PS of any kind.  Everyone does things to alter their appearance every day.  We shave, color our hair, use rogaine, apply pimple cream and makeup, dress in flattering clothing.  It's a personal choice, and I am all about supporting choice.  I would never think less of someone who's had work done... it doesn't affect ME in any way.  If I don't like it, I don't have to do it.  I hope no one thinks less of ME because I choose to wear makeup and color my hair.
> 
> On the flip side, I'll say that when I was in college and subscribed to a different brand of feminism, I thought just the idea of PS was gross.  I mean, why should women alter their bodies to better fit the male barbie doll fantasy of femininity?   And it was my opinion that women who voluntarily went under the knife for cosmetic reasons were weak; bowing to the patriarchy.  Obviously I have a different view now, but I think that this line of reasoning is very common in young women (say 25 or younger).



The thing is I'm in my mid-forties and I'm still kind of bothered by the 'bowing to patriarchy' bit myself. I know that from some of the responses here, many women say they do it for themselves but tbh, I'm in a bit of a quandary about PS. One the one hand, women can can control of their bodies and be empowered by it, but on the other hand it seems the antithesis of all that feminism holds dear. At the minute I reckon I could argue both sides and still be no further forward.....:s


----------



## HauteMama

^ Me, too, Cornflower Blue.

However, I have to keep in mind that just like with the sahm vs working outside the home mom debate, feminism fought to give women CHOICES. That means that regardless of what I might think is right for me, it is more empowering for women to be able to choose what is right for them than to do what I think is right.

I don't think PS would be right for me, but I would use chemical or laser peels to rid myself of sun-induced spots on my face. I like having the option, so I choose not to judge anyone who chooses something different from myself.


----------



## Charles

jpgoeth said:


> And I don't want to "start" anything, but Charles - I find some of your comments and tone condescending.  I mean honestly - if you had a really small wiener and there was a relatively easy way to fix it and make it more "normal sized" would you keep it roll-of-dimes small for the sake of maintaining diversity in wieners?
> 
> I'll also say that I DO get your point but disagree



Luckily, I'm a bit bigger than a roll of dimes, so I'd not get the procedure.  If it was an easy procedure, I would bet a lot of men would get it done.  However, I've talked with girls who said a guy was huge but had no idea what to do, and I've been told about guys who were small, but had a great technique.  I think it might cause guys to be more lazy.  
Do you think a partner's pleasure would be affected more by a small penis (for women) or small breasts (for men).


----------



## Cornflower Blue

HauteMama said:


> ^ Me, too, Cornflower Blue.
> 
> However, I have to keep in mind that just like with the sahm vs working outside the home mom debate, feminism fought to give women CHOICES. That means that regardless of what I might think is right for me, it is more empowering for women to be able to choose what is right for them than to do what I think is right.
> 
> I don't think PS would be right for me, but I would use chemical or laser peels to rid myself of sun-induced spots on my face. I like having the option, so I choose not to judge anyone who chooses something different from myself.



That's a very good point *HauteMama*....


----------



## Little Tiger

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I'm not a huge fan of plastic surgery unless there has been some type of disfigurement or sickness. Despite the success stories, I just think the risks are too high to engage in that type of procedure unless necessary. I understand women as they age get concerned about sagging boobs. I just don't always understand why they think it requires surgical correction. Simply getting a good bra would probably work wonders. And I say that without any sarcasm. I just don't get it. But then I am someone who tries to avoid going under the knife because once you start having surgery, you just fall into a cycle of feeling like you need something else done. And I also don't like to go through unnecessary pain and suffering.
> 
> When I was in my teens, I definitely had self-esteem issues concerning my looks. I think most people at that age have that problem. But I grew out of that and as I get older, I learn more and more to appreciate who I am, flaws and all. I think it truly shows confidence when you can look at yourself in the mirror and be happy with who you are, despite sagging, roots, etc. As someone else said, I think we would ALL be much better off if society would do this as a whole.
> 
> As for face lifts and botox, they both scare me considerably. Besides, I think there are preventive measures that can be taken to combat some of the issues that people address with plastic surgery.


 
I definitely agree with you, Nathansgirl. 

It's absolutely each individual's choice as to what they do with their body, but PS is really not for me (though as I get older, or if I had children, who knows what I might think?!).  I also think there's too much emphasis on looks in today's society.

As for breasts although I'm a B/C I couldn't have an enlargement as I just wouldn't want anyone touching them - in a PS way, that is! - even under anaesthetic, or needing replacement every ten years or so.  The idea is anathematical to me, but that's just me.  I also wouldn't like any increased attention with bigger breasts (I'm quite small so it would really notice).

I love grooming and doing face masks etc but have moved over to a much more natural way of life, e.g. I don't dye my hair now or use products with silicone, but use argan oil and things like that instead.  Sure sometimes I get urges to change my hair color, but very infrequently.

It's really a trade off between what's important to you, if you want something more balanced against the risks, cost and any other negatives.

I love using a little bit of make up, and grooming.  I do worry that the skin on my forehead is not as smooth as it was but personally I wouldn't do botox - it's just the idea that it's a temporary fix and would forever need continuum for the same effect.  I'm happy to be glowing with natural products and have a few lines 

However that was just me espousing what I like.  We're all different, and a bit contradictory in some ways, aren't we? If we weren't life would be a lot easier!


----------



## vhdos

Charles said:


> Luckily, I'm a bit bigger than a roll of dimes, so I'd not get the procedure.  If it was an easy procedure, I would bet a lot of men would get it done.  However, I've talked with girls who said a guy was huge but had no idea what to do, and I've been told about guys who were small, but had a great technique.  I think it might cause guys to be more lazy.
> Do you think a partner's pleasure would be affected more by a small penis (for women) or small breasts (for men).



It's not about "huge", it's about adequate.  Don't fool yourself about the old saying, "size doesn't matter, it's how you use it."  Yeah, not so much.  Just like the visual stimulation of looking at a nice rack (and yes, I can certainly appreciate that too) a "bigger is better" manhood is a plus too (within reason of course)


----------



## baby&melovelv

i've always thought that plastic surgery in any way is up to the person.  if someone really feels they will feel better having had it, and they can do it, good for them.  

i liked my boobs when they were perky and a full b.  now, they are ds or more.  i like my boobs both ways.  although i could do without the sag of the ds.  but i'm too scared of surgery to do anything about it.

to each her own.


----------



## baby&melovelv

vhdos said:


> It's not about "huge", it's about adequate. Don't fool yourself about the old saying, "size doesn't matter, it's how you use it." Yeah, not so much. Just like the visual stimulation of looking at a nice rack (and yes, I can certainly appreciate that too) a "bigger is better" manhood is a plus too (within reason of course)


 

vhdos-   within reason is right.  i dated a guy...  and found out he was...  more than reason-  and broke up with him. there was no way that was going to happen!


----------



## Little Tiger

baby&melovelv said:


> vhdos- within reason is right. i dated a guy... and found out he was... more than reason- and broke up with him. there was no way that was going to happen!


 
Well...if it wasn't going to happen..!

I have always thought hips were so much more beautiful and sensual than boobs though, a good pair of hips on a woman and the way she moves drives a man crazy.


----------



## NoraV

For what it's worth:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=9566be960d954b2d5f4590298d64db6a


----------



## Charles

vhdos said:


> It's not about "huge", it's about adequate.  Don't fool yourself about the old saying, "size doesn't matter, it's how you use it."  Yeah, not so much.  Just like the visual stimulation of looking at a nice rack (and yes, I can certainly appreciate that too) a "bigger is better" manhood is a plus too (within reason of course)



Of course.  I know 3-4 inches probably isn't going to feel as good as a guy who's 7-8.  However, as we all know, there's a fit for everyone, so the way I see it, small, average, large penis, I'll find a mate that will love me, and that's all that matters.


----------



## mjlover1977

i have a pretty good level of self esteem, but teeny boobs (A) ... i dont think i look bad right now but i do reckon id rock a nice B cup rack ... i prob wont ever get it done (because i dont like the idea of getting surgery ever 10 years) but if i could i would.
Wouldnt change who i am ... i promise


----------



## Rhose

It's been my experience that small guys do try harder, actually. Big ones point and shoot, so to speak. (Don't get me wrong though: bigger is _definitely_ better, extra talents notwithstanding.  )

It'd be great if simple, effective penis enlargements were possible... but only after, say, the age of 25, so that smaller guys have had the opportunity to overcompensate with other talents. Then after the surgery they'd be these glorious Super Mega Lovers. And naturally larger guys will have to learn to hone their skills to stay competitive. Amazingly talented, well-hung lovers for all! Oooh yeeeah. 

Sorry, just went into my own little fantasy world for minute. Boobs. Right. Life's short: do whatever makes you happy! I love my implanted boobies - they balance out my pear shape perfectly, which is what I was going for. Clothes fit so well now, it's heaven. Guys love them too, for the sake of the conversation, but they loved my little ones also. Bless.


----------



## vhdos

Rhose said:


> It's been my experience that small guys do try harder, actually. Big ones point and shoot, so to speak. (Don't get me wrong though: bigger is _definitely_ better, extra talents notwithstanding.  )
> 
> It'd be great if simple, effective penis enlargements were possible... *but only after, say, the age of 25, so that smaller guys have had the opportunity to overcompensate with other talents.* Then after the surgery they'd be these glorious Super Mega Lovers. And naturally larger guys will have to learn to hone their skills to stay competitive. Amazingly talented, well-hung lovers for all! Oooh yeeeah.
> 
> Sorry, just went into my own little fantasy world for minute. Boobs. Right. Life's short: do whatever makes you happy! I love my implanted boobies - they balance out my pear shape perfectly, which is what I was going for. Clothes fit so well now, it's heaven. Guys love them too, for the sake of the conversation, but they loved my little ones also. Bless.



I think that the same could be said of women and implants.  They could seriously benefit from waiting until after age 25 too


----------



## Swanky

I agree w/ that. . .  I don't think anyone under 21 should be allowed to be tattooe'd or have cosmetic surgery's unless it's for reconstruction purposes.
I'd bet most of people who got a tattoo at 16,17,18-ish regret it 20 yrs later.


----------



## natalie78

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I'd bet most of people who got a tattoo at 16,17,18-ish regret it 20 yrs later.


I once had to strip-search a female inmate with several tattoos that she got when she was in her teens and early 20's.  The problem?  She was 60.  Not cute.  Things looked droopier and sagging.


----------



## ~Fabulousity~

^^hahahaha


----------



## merika

Only on tPF would a thread go from implants to penis size and tattoos on droopy skin...


----------



## Swanky

we aim to please!


----------



## Zophie

I got my implants because I wanted big titties.


----------



## Laurie8504

Fredette said:


> As a bustier lady myself, the kind of sentiment expressed in the original post tends to make me roll my eyes. Why is surgery only allowed for function over form? According to some people, me getting a reduction is A OKAY as long as I said it was because my back hurt.. nevermind that I considered a reduction once upon a time because I simply didn't like the way they looked.
> 
> I also get frustrated at the 'ra ra' character-building argument as some sort of alternative. I'm thankful my parents did not subscribe to that school of thought. When I was 3 years old I got struck by a car and my nose was flattened. Even though my nose still FUNCTIONED properly, they got me in to surgery and had my nose fixed as soon as possible.
> 
> It is perfectly possible to like yourself and have a healthy self-esteem and STILL want to look a certain way. It's perfectly natural and HUMAN to want to change something about yourself if you feel it's not normal or whatever. As humans we want to fit in. I think it's ignorant and insulting to insinuate that the desire to fit in is somehow a character defect rather than a simple part of the human condition.



What a lovely post, I like the way you phrased everything.  I think there are so many sides to this issue that the debate will never reach a settlement.  I have middle-of-the-spectrum boobs, and I am happy with them; they are proportionate to my body...I suppose I have a dancer's build, very lithe, and anything larger would look awkward on me. Plus, I've seen what my sister has had to deal with having DD's (clothes not fitting, back pain, etc) However, anything smaller and I could understand wanting more.  After three children my mom had a BA, and I don't fault it for her at all.  

I support the right to change one's appearance if it will lead to a more fulfilling life, and people are always going to go about this in different ways.  While I am wary about the health risks associated with surgery, if it can significantly improve someone's life, then perhaps the risks are worth it.


----------



## bonchicgenre

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I agree w/ that. . .  I don't think anyone under 21 should be allowed to be tattooe'd or have cosmetic surgery's unless it's for reconstruction purposes.
> I'd bet most of people who got a tattoo at 16,17,18-ish regret it 20 yrs later.



I got my impants at 20, 6 months before being 21. But, I did a ton of research, went to multiple doctors, and paid for it by myself. I am blessed to have a family that although mad at first later understood when they finally let me explain. My mother was great and took me to and from surgery and took care of me until my boyfriend came home. My family loves how they turned out and are amazed what they look like and feel like, real boobs.
There is an age limit on silicone (22) which I have saline (and love) but am sure when I do need them redone I will get silicone or they will have even further advancements. I don't think an age setting is appropriate although I do not think most girls at 18 are mature enough to understand that plastic surgery is forever, not one day.
Also, as for a few people saying that you have to have them redone every 10 years, this is not true. Although many people choose to get them redone once, some multiple times, it is not every 10 years. With saline my doctor did say that yes one day I will need them redone, which after children will probably be 10 years, but after that I may never need them redone. Many of my family members have implants and still love them, some got them younger some got them in their 30's and one now is considering it and she is 52. So whether they had implants or not they are still the same person and I still love them.
As for a guy not wanting to date a girl with implants (charles) no guy has ever noticed I had implants. Only my boyfriend knew and people who saw me every day before them didn't notice them after (this includes my sorority sisters, my guy best friend, and my boyfriend's friends). My doctor did an amazing job and the people who do know are the people I have told. Sorry but generalizing that someone is able to pick out every person with a fake rack is a little ridiculous. No boob job is the same, yes there are bad ones, but there are amazing ones as well.

PS - I hate calling them fake boobies, because in my mind, I paid for them and they are in my body, so they are mine.


----------



## vhdos

^Having them redone every 10 years _is_ kind of true.  Most doctors recommend having them replaced at 10-15 years, or at the very least, checked for complications.  The shelf life of a saline implant is roughly 12-14 years and up to 18 for silicone.  Implants, much like most plastic surgery procedures, require maintenance.


----------



## Swanky

I think she's just saying 10 yrs is a little liberal.  You should get them checked and replace as needed, it's not always 10 yrs.


----------



## amymarie

I got them b/c I wanted bigger boobs, to feel more confident and to look better in certain clothing...and I have no regrets whatsoever!  I may have to get them redone in 10 years+ after I have kids but I have no problem with that. I understand there is a possibility for complications just like in ANY other surgery, but the majority of surgeries turn out just fine. Cosmetic surgery is kind of like getting braces, makeup, colored contacts, like any other tool to enhance self image...nothing wrong with that.


----------



## bonchicgenre

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I think she's just saying 10 yrs is a little liberal.  You should get them checked and replace as needed, it's not always 10 yrs.



yup  Exactly what I was saying. Some women get them redone in two, some in 12, just depends! I do agree with getting them checked though, there can be complications years after the procedure.


----------



## bonchicgenre

amymarie said:


> I got them b/c I wanted bigger boobs, to feel more confident and to look better in certain clothing...and I have no regrets whatsoever!  I may have to get them redone in 10 years+ after I have kids but I have no problem with that. I understand there is a possibility for complications just like in ANY other surgery, but the majority of surgeries turn out just fine. Cosmetic surgery is kind of like getting braces, makeup, colored contacts, like any other tool to enhance self image...nothing wrong with that.



 !


----------



## natalie78

I am working on losing weight (and I have a lot to lose), so I may consider implants if the original equipment doesn't look quite as they should.  It's not for anyone else to enjoy...just for myself.


----------



## ~Fabulousity~

natalie78 said:


> I am working on losing weight (and I have a lot to lose), so I may consider implants if the original equipment doesn't look quite as they should. *It's not for anyone else to enjoy...just for myself*.


 

same here, I dont like what I see when I look in the mirror. My breast used to be so full before kids now they are flat like puppy dog ears


----------



## Gimmethebag

I don't have implants and I've been a D+ cup since early high school. I can totally see both sides. On one hand, I do get a lot of attention because of my breasts. I was just in the Palm Beach area, where every woman is showcasing her set, and I was able to wear a sexy little dress and fit in/ hold my own. 

On the other hand, I don't get wanting to trade one set of problems for another. My back does hurt sometimes and I can't stand with a shoulder bag for any long periods of time. Eventually, I'm going to need work on them as the skin loses collagen. It is a real pain to shop for dresses, swim suits, summer clothing and to find sweaters and jackets that don't make me look like a truck. And it's a pain in the A to find bras that aren't ugly in my size. My rib cage is 27" and right now, I'm about an E cup. No running for me!


----------



## amymarie

I'm not sure if natural boobs weigh more than implants do or something? I often hear girls with big boobs talk about the back pain, and I was concerned about that too. But I'm 5'2 with 32DD and have no back pain, can run fine and all my clothes fit a lot better now! It is hard to find cute bras though, can't just go to VS anymore.


----------



## vhdos

^actually, VS is starting to carry a lot more 32 C, D, DD these days.  I was in there a few weeks ago and found several styles in my size


----------



## Gimmethebag

amymarie said:


> I'm not sure if natural boobs weigh more than implants do or something? I often hear girls with big boobs talk about the back pain, and I was concerned about that too. But I'm 5'2 with 32DD and have no back pain, can run fine and all my clothes fit a lot better now! It is hard to find cute bras though, can't just go to VS anymore.



On a bad day, they feel like two bowling balls I'm strutting around. Even my SO notices how heavy they feel on those days. 

I find that the push-up bras give my shoulders a break some. I have had some luck with VS DreamAngels bras in 32DD and 34D, but the recent combination of birth control pills and spiro for my skin has definitely made my breasts borderline too big for my bras.


----------



## amymarie

vhdos said:


> ^actually, VS is starting to carry a lot more 32 C, D, DD these days.  I was in there a few weeks ago and found several styles in my size



I noticed that also... but still in my town, there weren't that many, but an improvement!


----------



## amymarie

Gimmethebag said:


> On a bad day, they feel like two bowling balls I'm strutting around. Even my SO notices how heavy they feel on those days.
> 
> I find that the push-up bras give my shoulders a break some. I have had some luck with VS DreamAngels bras in 32DD and 34D, but the recent combination of birth control pills and spiro for my skin has definitely made my breasts borderline too big for my bras.



I hate pushup bras, they make my implants look huge. Lol but I love the VS dream angel bras in 32DD/34D as well!!! The only bra I like from there in my size.


----------



## Rhose

Gimmethebag said:


> On the other hand, I don't get wanting to trade one set of problems for another. My back does hurt sometimes and I can't stand with a shoulder bag for any long periods of time. Eventually, I'm going to need work on them as the skin loses collagen. It is a real pain to shop for dresses, swim suits, summer clothing and to find sweaters and jackets that don't make me look like a truck. And it's a pain in the A to find bras that aren't ugly in my size. My rib cage is 27" and right now, I'm about an E cup. No running for me!



This is what people don't understand - implants are nothing like real breasts in terms of back pain etc, unless you get ridiculous Jordan type fakes. They don't sag, don't pull, nothing. I have similar proportions to you on paper: 32D on a 25" ribcage (I should be a 30 band but these are very hard to find - I share your pain on that one). Only I don't even notice the implants are there, let alone get back pain. They're not freely moving fatty human flesh stretching the skin down but rather contained implants latched in under my pectoral muscles. Those muscles are better support than any bra - sagging and loss of elasticity are not an issue. I could run 5 miles without a bra with little trouble, if any. (My issue is with them looking a little bit _too_ perky, when I'm a senior citizen. I may have them removed then.) 

Also, falsies look smaller than real ones of the same bra size, especially in clothes. I think I look more like a modest C cup, which is the look I was going for. It's something about implants filling out a bra cup differently - they're wider than a natural breast. To demonstrate, my fake D cup rack (no bra): 





It's something about implants filling out a bra cup differently - they're wider than a natural breast. That photo was at my Dad's wedding, so I wasn't trying for cleavage, but still. A fake D is not actually a big deal. The only breast implants anyone notices are the overdone ones. Modest ones fly under the radar, hence everyone thinks the only implants are the in-your-face ones. The good jobs are good because most people have no idea! The likes of Pamela Anderson have given breast implants an... extreme reputation. But the vast majority of women who get them are completely normal, and want something completely normal _looking_. Not to have massive hooters, but to replace what time has taken away or perhaps give nature a subtle little helping hand. But I digress. 

I wouldn't want naturally very large boobs either, no way. I'd take my God given itty bitty titties any day. However, the beauty of science has obviously allowed me to opt for somewhere in between, yay.


----------



## amymarie

^^ I agree with you.  I have no backpain or issues with them! Some people don't understand that implants are much different than "natural" boobs. My 32DD only looks like a C in clothing too.


----------



## Gimmethebag

amymarie said:


> ^^ I agree with you.  I have no backpain or issues with them! Some people don't understand that implants are much different than "natural" boobs. My 32DD only looks like a C in clothing too.



Ah, I'm so jealous of you ladies! I usually am pretty good at wearing clothing to minimize them, but there are certain things I cannot wear without them looking "Texas Stripper Big." Though, there are certain times when THAT comes in handy. 

When I find button down shirts that fit me in the shoulders (tiny), chest (huge) and waist (tiny) I have to buy every color!


----------



## Rhose

Gimmethebag said:


> ... there are certain things I cannot wear without them looking "Texas Stripper Big." Though, there are certain times when THAT comes in handy.



Ha, I bet! 

I totally relate to buying the same clothing item in every different colour, only the other way around. It used to be if I found a bikini that gave me the merest _hint_ of breasticles, I'd buy four!


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

vhdos said:


> ^Having them redone every 10 years _is_ kind of true. Most doctors recommend having them replaced at 10-15 years, or at the very least, checked for complications. The shelf life of a saline implant is roughly 12-14 years and up to 18 for silicone. Implants, much like most plastic surgery procedures, require maintenance.


 

It sure is true for me! My first set I had for 14 years & one ruptured. Nothing happend to damage it, it just degraded on itself. (They actually had the nerve to give these a 'shelf life', they are inside one's body, not sitting on a shelf. Know well that there are women that will wait 18 years.) Will never go that long again, its my health we are talking about. 

And if these implants are under the muscle & they rupture. That means they might be cleaning out the area around your organs. So does one really want an implant sitting that close to ones organs, maybe degrading cause someone doesn't want to spend the money to get them replaced. Mine was not under the muscle & because it ruptured it added another 2 hours to the surgery to clean out the area & make sure nothing was left behind. Thank God I had a very caring doctor.


----------



## irish_clover

Unless there is something wrong with them (ie had a couple of kids and now they are sagging) or they are not proportional to your body I see no need to get implants.

Bigger isn't always better and most guys say they don't like them. A couple of my friends have had them done and I think they look unnatural especially when a 110 lb girl goes and gets DD's.
Plus they can cause health problems in the long run. I used to work for la senza and all of my bigger busted customers complained about how they had trouble finding cute bras and what a pain their boobs were.

I'm a 32B and I would never get implants just to be bigger.


----------



## courty

i think people should do whatever makes them happy!

personally i can understand both sides. all through high school and college, i wore a 32 A bra, and didn't really even fill it out. for years i wished my chest was a bit bigger.

but i studied dance through college, and having a flat chest was a good thing according to most of my teachers. and i'm interested in fashion, and started to appreciate how clothes fit me, since so many of them are made to fit young flat-chested models.

just as i began appreciating what i had, 'the girls' started to grow! it seemed like over the course of a month- now i wear a C cup. and now that i have a larger chest, i hate it and wish it would shrink back down! i don't like the feeling of my chest bouncing around when i'm running, and i don't like men looking at my cleavage, and having to wear camisoles under v-neck tops. and having to wear a bra all the time is annoying!

oh well... the grass is always greener.


----------



## bonchicgenre

irish_clover said:


> Unless there is something wrong with them (ie had a couple of kids and now they are sagging) or they are not proportional to your body I see no need to get implants.
> 
> Bigger isn't always better and *most guys say they don't like them*. A couple of my friends have had them done and I think they look unnatural especially when a 110 lb girl goes and gets DD's.
> Plus they can cause health problems in the long run. I used to work for la senza and all of my bigger busted customers complained about how they had trouble finding cute bras and what a pain their boobs were.
> 
> I'm a 32B and I would never get implants just to be bigger.



The bolded part, says who? Sorry but that comment always bothers me, every guy I know has no problem with my implants, they don't even notice I have them.

I agree with all the ladies about not looking like a "natural" D. I'm a 34D but most people guess me at a C, implants have a different structure. And I am VERY happy VS is now caring 32D in store, made my life easier bra shopping for the first time this past week


----------



## vhdos

irish_clover said:


> Unless there is something wrong with them (ie had a couple of kids and now they are sagging) or they are not proportional to your body I see no need to get implants.
> 
> Bigger isn't always better and most guys say they don't like them. A couple of my friends have had them done and I think they look unnatural especially when a 110 lb girl goes and gets DD's.
> Plus they can cause health problems in the long run. I used to work for la senza and all of my bigger busted customers complained about how they had trouble finding cute bras and what a pain their boobs were.
> 
> I'm a 32B and I would never get implants just to be bigger.



Yeah, I hardly think that it's fair to say, "most guys say they don't like them."  Most guys I know, could care less - boobs are boobs - and if you're a "boob guy" then it doesn't matter if they are real of fake.  I agree that some implants look a bit too "obvious" but I certainly don't think that they are in the majority.  I think your example of 110 lb girl with DD's is extreme and not the norm.


----------



## vhdos

Vegas Long Legs said:


> It sure is true for me! My first set I had for 14 years & one ruptured. Nothing happend to damage it, it just degraded on itself. (They actually had the nerve to give these a 'shelf life', they are inside one's body, not sitting on a shelf. Know well that there are women that will wait 18 years.) Will never go that long again, its my health we are talking about.
> 
> And if these implants are under the muscle & they rupture. That means they might be cleaning out the area around your organs. So does one really want an implant sitting that close to ones organs, maybe degrading cause someone doesn't want to spend the money to get them replaced. Mine was not under the muscle & because it ruptured it added another 2 hours to the surgery to clean out the area & make sure nothing was left behind. Thank God I had a very caring doctor.



Your story is why most doctors recommend replacement after 10 years.  Replacing implants that have already ruptured is a more difficult and time-consuming procedure.  The "shelf-life" is simply referring to the time in which the implant can remain safely intact.  After that time, the shell becomes compromised and the incidence of leakage and/or rupture increases.


----------



## my_name_here

Charles said:


> Come on!  Those are probably some of the worst analogies you've used.
> 
> My bike has nothing to do with attractiveness. I had a sport bike prior to my Harley, but I didn't care for the riding position, nor the type of attention it got. I bought my Harley cause I like to ride, not be looked at. My current bike is more comfortable, in addition to that, I enjoy the history and legend involved with the company. I also didn't get surgery to own a motorcycle.
> Looking at girls with DD's...yeah, they look like circus acts, that's why I look, not cause I'm turned on. *[Does looking like a circus act apply to women with real DDs too?]*
> As for me being shallow...what does me not wanting to date a girl who's worried so much about her appearance that she gets a surgical procedure to alter that appearance? I prefer girls who are secure in themselves and don't need to meet a certain societal ideal in order to feel good about themselves. I think that's rather far from shallow, rather having standards. Would you date a man who was so worried about his penis size that he got an enlargement?
> *[Depends, is my primary interest his penis? Or am I capable of appreciating him as a person first and a penis second?  ...Wait, lemme catch my eyes, they're rolling across the floor.] *
> How am I reducing it to a petty level?  I'm talking girls that get breast augmentation "just because"
> *[People get designer scars, piercings, and all sorts of implants and tattoos all of the time 'just because', and that all can carry a Hep C or AIDs risk along with any number of other nasty infections. And rarely are these procedures performed in a sterile, medical environment. Do you think that performance artist Eric Sprague became the Lizard Man for some deep and philosophical reason? Do you think he did it because of cancer?]*
> , no cancer survivors, etc.


*[Why does a woman need to kick death in the face in order for breast implants to be justified? I can't comprehend this line of thinking.
Being a woman, I have breasts of some irrelevant size. One day I might get a reduction, one day, I might want a lift, or wait, wait for it, IMPLANTS! especially if I breastfeed and it does a number on my breasts. I don't think entertaining those options makes me a bad person, but I think it's pretty bad to assert that major body augmentation is the realm of cancer survivors and shallow people who can't or won't accept themselves despite being socialized not to.

That remark is beyond offensive, insensitive and ignorant.
You should be proud.*


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

vhdos said:


> Your story is why most doctors recommend replacement after 10 years. Replacing implants that have already ruptured is a more difficult and time-consuming procedure. The "shelf-life" is simply referring to the time in which the implant can remain safely intact. After that time, the shell becomes compromised and the incidence of leakage and/or rupture increases.


 
Mine actually ruptured when the dr. tugged at it to take it out. Still going to say the 'shelf life' is deceiving. Mine was 4 years under the 18 years they claim they can remain safely intact.


----------



## natalie78

my_name_here said:


> *[Depends, is my primary interest his penis? Or am I capable of appreciating him as a person first and a penis second? ]*


 
I almost spit out my coffee on this one


----------



## amymarie

irish_clover said:


> Unless there is something wrong with them (ie had a couple of kids and now they are sagging) or they are not proportional to your body I see no need to get implants.
> 
> Bigger isn't always better and most guys say they don't like them. A couple of my friends have had them done and I think they look unnatural especially when a 110 lb girl goes and gets DD's.
> Plus they can cause health problems in the long run. I used to work for la senza and all of my bigger busted customers complained about how they had trouble finding cute bras and what a pain their boobs were.
> 
> I'm a 32B and I would never get implants just to be bigger.



1) "Most guys"? Ever since I got implants, I got more attention from guys (not a great thing though).  
2) They do not cause health problems in the long run.
3) Many stores are starting to carry bigger/special sizes in cute styles.
4) I was 5'2, 110lb when I got my boobs (gained since then lol) and wear DD now and look normal.  My family did not even notice that I got implants.


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

nm


----------



## DiorDeVille

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I don't personally know anyone who ties beauty to breast size



I know a few!!!    I can't say the small-breasted would be missing out on much with these guys, though.  

I'm with the (much) earlier poster that thought the primary question was why someone who's natural breasts are perfectly adequate would feel the need to undergo surgery simply to appeal to the guys who DO tie beauty to breast size. You have to admit, that's something to discuss.  I think every woman on the planet can understand where someone who chose implants or any other surgery after childbirth (or any other body-changing life event, such as say a masectomy) to get back the figure she is used to.  I see that as truly doing something "for you" rather than for "public opinion" - if that makes any sense. 

As far as an analogy for guys, I know a lot of guys who pump weights to look more buff.  Some of those guys get buff on diet and exercise alone.  Some use protein supplements, powders, pills, etc. in addition to the diet and exercise.  (I'd consider these the equivalent of, say, a padded bra.) And others use steroids, which really change the actual composition of your body and can have serious side effects.  Again, as a disclaimer, I don't know that this psychology would be analogous to women who choose implants to "get their body back" post-childbirth or other big event.


----------



## DiorDeVille

DesigningStyle said:


> Sorry, I just have to add.  I read *Charles' *comments here and they just make me LOL!  *Charles *sorry man, but you need to be a woman to understand this.  You just don't get it.



Charles, it seems to me that you're trying to say that its not the PRESENCE of insecurity that is the issue since we're all insecure (men and women), its the EXTENT and SEVERITY of insecurity necessary for someone to undergo such invasive and potentially dangerous procedures?  Is that it?  And I'd agree in some cases. But like some here have pointed out, unless you're generally insecure and somehow decide that the attention you'd get from big hooters would single-handedly solve all your problems and make you feel amazing, I think it requires a broader view.  

Also, keep in mind that a woman's appearance is sadly often her primary currency (much like a man's intelligence or physical ability to work and maintain a career is his).  Me losing some of my "appeal" physically (through, say, a droopy chest) would be the same thing as you losing 95% of your savings/income/physical strength, or something else that makes you confident about your ability to maintain the life you built for yourself.  If that were the case, would you do something drastic - say travel to Alaska for a specialist's help or work longer hours - to repair the situation?  

Actually, since relationships tend to be to women what a career is to a man, identity-wise, let's say its a change that makes you 95% less effective in your career - and something that time and age will only make worse if you don't do something to stop the process. What would you do to fix that situation?


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

Not everyone is getting huge oversize hooters that get implants. 

I like what my name here says. Do they appreciate you as a person first? If that is a screening tool for someone not to go out with, they obviously aren't thinking of 'you' first & your hooters somewhere down the list.


----------



## Rhose

I think people posting about how "guys don't like them" are taking a desperate stab in the dark. Maybe their boyfriend told them that once to mollify them. Maybe it was a self important guy who had no firsthand experience with breast implants believing anyone cared what he thinks. I don't know. Thankfully I don't associate with any men like that. 

Regardless, I actually have firsthand experience with augmented breasts. Guys love them. Go nuts over them, love to look at them, can't stop playing with them. Sorry to break it to you! And these are grown, intelligent, gainfully employed men I'm talking about here, not horny frat boys. Of all the things I considered and worried about when deciding to get implants, whether guys would like them or not barely registered. And rightfully so. 

I resent anyone telling me what I should and should not be doing with my own body. What gives you the right to judge me? Really? I'm an adult. I thought long and hard about it. I researched it to the nth degree. I prepared myself in every way possible. And it turned out great! I'm over the moon. Why can't people just be happy for me, and women like me, who are thrilled with our decision? Why is it so hard to just let it be? You don't want implants, you don't like them, fine, we get it. *But so what?? *


----------



## Allisonfaye

vhdos said:


> OMG! I didn't even catch that part until I saw your post swank! Hilarious!!! Any foreign object placed inside the body would obviously warm up to body temperature. That one comment took any credibility out of that article.
> And as far as men finding a "real" A-cup better than a "fake" D-cup, I just don't buy it. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are _plenty_ of men on this planet who feel that way, but I've yet to see one look away when they see a woman with a D-cup (real or fake) I seriously doubt that if a man is getting "lucky" he's saying to himself, "darn, I wish these boobs were real."


 

Ok. I admit it it. Mine are sometimes, uh, cold. But frankly, I have bigger problems in life than my cold boobs. lol


----------



## Allisonfaye

Charles said:


> I have some pretty strong opinions on this. To be honest, I'd never date a girl with fake breasts. My ex has saggy boobs, and it never crossed my mind that she was less attractive because of them. Kara has rather perky, almost "perfect" C cups, and that fact doesn't make me love her more either. I don't want to date a girl that ties her attractiveness to her boob size. To me, the idea that people get plastic surgery only compounds the rather shallow outward beauty criteria that society has adopted. If more girls (and guys) would simply be happy with what they are, as a whole, I think less emphasis would be placed on physical attractiveness..thus lessening the need to "fit in" by getting better looking breasts, cause no matter how you want to justify it, it is about fitting in and feeling more attractive.


 
I wish I had met you when I was about 20. But instead, I worked with this nasty bit$ch who made fun of me for being flat. I wish I had had the self esteem at that age to let it roll of me, but I didn't.


----------



## PurseAddict79

Zophie said:


> I got my implants because I wanted big titties.


 
I love you... so funny 

I am naturally bigger on top. I'm a 34D right now, but was a 40DD before I lost weight. I've lost a significant amount of weight.. and I nursed a child. TBH, I've seriously considered getting implants. I want firm, perky boobs. And not for men, or anyone else... but for me. Damn it, I want to wear cute strapless tops without tripping over my tits!


----------



## katusha

Vegas Long Legs said:


> OK well you asked.
> 
> Its not just about the breast size. For many women, its the whole package. Is the rest of the body in great shape? One can be overweight & have huge breasts, that's alot of what happens when putting on weight. It also goes into your breasts. Why focus on just the breast sizes? Don't ignore the rest of the body. Its one whole package.
> 
> Alot of women work out. They get their body in shape & might lose some breast tissue. These women care not just about breast size but the whole package. Most just want to look nice & don't go around talking about the specific size of breasts. Again its the WHOLE package.


 
I agree 100%.  that was the reason for my decision.  i just feel more proportionate now.


----------



## Cates

Zophie said:


> I got my implants because I wanted big titties.



Love it!  Seriously, who cares if someone gets PS?  I personally love my B's as does my DH, and wouldn't get PS at this point in my life (i'm 28).  But if they get droopy or saggy after having kids, I will most definitely look at implants. I want my boobies to always be perky


----------



## vhdos

Allisonfaye said:


> Ok. I admit it it. Mine are sometimes, uh, cold. But frankly, I have bigger problems in life than my cold boobs. lol



Is this a joke?  I guess I don't get it.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

I can't believe this thread is still going!

If you want them, get them.
If you don't want them, then don't them.
Some guys like them.
Some guys don't like them.


Who cares?


----------



## klj

^^^ When I saw this at the top of the threads again..I was just thinking the same thing..I can't believe its still going..lol
I agree with the above..and I think I just bumped it up again didn't I..


----------



## Saviola

I have a tiny 5'3 frame and a D cup. I personally wish they were smaller. I feel smaller breast are elegant. I love to workout and my tiny frame with the large ladies makes it uncomfortable to run. It is even embarrassing to run around the neighborhood because two sports bras does not keep them from bouncing and making me feel weird around the neighbors lol. There are the pros and the cons. 

But I know that when I become a mom..and these suckers go south for the winter..I am definitely going to want some work done.


----------



## Jahpson

bagnshoofetish said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going!
> 
> If you want them, get them.
> If you don't want them, then don't them.
> Some guys like them.
> Some guys don't like them.
> 
> 
> Who cares?


 

and the world keeps spinning. exactly!


----------



## Charles

my_name_here said:
			
		

> Depends, is my primary interest his penis? Or am I capable of appreciating him as a person first and a penis second? ...Wait, lemme catch my eyes, they're rolling across the floor.



I don't know...you tell me.  If you can appreciate a man who feels the need to enlarge his penis, then fine.  I feel that stems from a rather extreme sense of insecurity, and unless he's abnormally small, and simply can't please his partner, I don't really agree with it.  And implying that my primary interest in women are their breasts is insulting and lazy.  Try harder next time.




			
				my_name_here said:
			
		

> People get designer scars, piercings, and all sorts of implants and tattoos all of the time 'just because', and that all can carry a Hep C or AIDs risk along with any number of other nasty infections. And rarely are these procedures performed in a sterile, medical environment. Do you think that performance artist Eric Sprague became the Lizard Man for some deep and philosophical reason? Do you think he did it because of cancer?



Total tangent.  Scarification/tattoos aren't typically done to fit in with a mainstream societal image.  In fact, the opposite.  No need to even bring this into the discussion as it doesn't apply.



my_name_here said:


> Why does a woman need to kick death in the face in order for breast implants to be justified? I can't comprehend this line of thinking.
> Being a woman, I have breasts of some irrelevant size. One day I might get a reduction, one day, I might want a lift, or wait, wait for it, IMPLANTS! especially if I breastfeed and it does a number on my breasts. I don't think entertaining those options makes me a bad person, but I think it's pretty bad to assert that major body augmentation is the realm of cancer survivors and shallow people who can't or won't accept themselves despite being socialized not to.
> 
> That remark is beyond offensive, insensitive and ignorant.
> You should be proud.



Can you please read all my posts before you reply to me.  Most of what you're claiming I feel simply isn't true.  So don't attempt to  "put me in my place" when you can't even reply to what I'm actually saying.  
I never said women shouldn't be able to get implants, nor that they shouldn't be able to do whatever they want, nor that they were shallow or bad people.  I simply said I didn't want to date a girl who had had them done.  I mean, I feel it's your right to smoke crack and sell your body for money, but I'm still not going to date you.  So, what's your point?  That because I don't want to date a girl with implants I'm a bad person?  Ok.  I disagree.
You seem to be minimalizing this to a personal level.  This isn't about one woman...you...or any other specific woman.  This is about females as a whole.  Females go through life with so many pressures to fit a certain image dictated by society.  Why do you think so many women develop eating disorders, self injure, develop body dysmorphic disorders, and utilize plastic surgery more than men...and we're talking 90% more than men.  There's a reason for that.  Think big and stop making this about why YOU feel it's OK for YOU to get these procedures done.  Once more women start seeing this as a result of a larger problem, things will start getting better.  Of course, obviously, your idea and my idea of better is probably different.


----------



## Charles

DiorDeVille said:


> Charles, it seems to me that you're trying to say that its not the PRESENCE of insecurity that is the issue since we're all insecure (men and women), its the EXTENT and SEVERITY of insecurity necessary for someone to undergo such invasive and potentially dangerous procedures?  Is that it?  And I'd agree in some cases. But like some here have pointed out, unless you're generally insecure and somehow decide that the attention you'd get from big hooters would single-handedly solve all your problems and make you feel amazing, I think it requires a broader view.



Thank you for actually reading what I'm posting.  Yes..that's my main issue, and no, I don't feel it's for attention, per se, rather fitting an image and pandering to that image set forth...which is what I've been saying the whole time.



DiorDeVille said:


> *Also, keep in mind that a woman's appearance is sadly often her primary currency (much like a man's intelligence or physical ability to work and maintain a career is his).*  Me losing some of my "appeal" physically (through, say, a droopy chest) would be the same thing as you losing 95% of your savings/income/physical strength, or something else that makes you confident about your ability to maintain the life you built for yourself.  If that were the case, would you do something drastic - say travel to Alaska for a specialist's help or work longer hours - to repair the situation?



Exactly!  I don't like that.  THAT'S what needs to change, and getting PS isn't going to change that...in fact, it's going to perpetuate it.  And yes, what makes this so hard is that it's hard to be the one person to stand against everyone else and say "I'm not going to look the way you want me to look", cause they're going to get tossed to the side.  But it has to start somewhere.  Someone has to be the lamb if things are ever going to change.



DiorDeVille said:


> Actually, since relationships tend to be to women what a career is to a man, identity-wise, let's say its a change that makes you 95% less effective in your career - and something that time and age will only make worse if you don't do something to stop the process. What would you do to fix that situation?



I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.  I don't see my career as defining me, soooo...  What identifies me is my actions and my thoughts.  They're what defines me to people in this world.  My actions and thoughts extend into both my career, my relationships, and all other parts of my life. I try not to look at something external as my identity.  Maybe I'm reading too much into what you're saying. 

But yes...I really appreciate you taking the time to read a bit more into what I'm posting.  And I want to thank the other few who have as well.


----------



## DiorDeVille

^^^^The career situation is going to vary from guy to guy, obvs. It was the closest thing I could think of on the spur of the moment, and I still hold that it applies to some men, if not you (I understand what you're saying - I think that's a good thing).  Certainly, "what I do" seems to constitute a bigger part of a guy's identity than it does a woman's, in many cases (whether that's good or bad is another topic for another day, I think.)  And I see guys respond to losing their jobs or careers much more harshly than women seem to (again a generalization).  

Re: being a "lamb," there are quite a few posters on here who are doing just that!  There are a lot of women everywhere who are doing that!!!!  You don't hear about them because (a) no one's commenting on their chests, and (b) THEY aren't doing things to make you comment on their chests.  So it goes unnoticed. As a guy, you could do your part - if you wanted - by combatting some of the guys out there who instantly discard flat-chested women, even celebrities, as "meh" without a comment or thought about their drive, career accomplishments, etc - simply because they're not chesticley-endowed.  

Plus, asking women to "suffer" to change a standard that is already making them "suffer" - is a bit much, IMO.  Its wrong for us to be judged by our appearance, yes - but if I opt to go through life working the jobs and dating the guys I can get while neglecting my looks, I'm punishing myself for the shallowness of others.  I also only get one life.  I'm wasting opportunities that I will never get again.  If all it takes to optimize all the opportunities available to me is a two-hour surgery, then it begins to seem foolish to pass it up.  Does that reasoning make sense?  (*Again, keep in mind that the above-statements are NOT the reasoning that lead ALL women who do so to get PS.  Some do it with other, different motivations.)

And not everyone who gets implants is doing it to inspire comments on their chests, which is a distinction that I hope you'll consider.  Some things girls choose to do so ONLY WE can feel content with our bodies - if no one else ever knows that part looks a little different or feels a little different, its all the same by us. 



bagnshoofetish said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going!
> 
> If you want them, get them.
> If you don't want them, then don't them.
> Some guys like them.
> Some guys don't like them.
> 
> 
> Who cares?



I like this!  Thanks for keepin' it simple, *shoo*!!!  I could use some help with that.


----------



## nathansgirl1908

Rhose said:


> I think people posting about how "guys don't like them" are taking a desperate stab in the dark. Maybe their boyfriend told them that once to mollify them. Maybe it was a self important guy who had no firsthand experience with breast implants believing anyone cared what he thinks. I don't know. Thankfully I don't associate with any men like that.


 Guys certainly do like them.  But I don't know if anyone should be "thankful" not to associate with men who may say they don't like them.  It really isn't that serious and implies that there are something wrong with a guy not liking implants.


----------



## nathansgirl1908

Charles said:


> Exactly! I don't like that. THAT'S what needs to change, and getting PS isn't going to change that...in fact, it's going to perpetuate it. And yes, what makes this so hard is that it's hard to be the one person to stand against everyone else and say "I'm not going to look the way you want me to look", cause they're going to get tossed to the side. But it has to start somewhere. Someone has to be the lamb if things are ever going to change.


 I completely agree.  And I am definitely one of those people who is willing to say that "I'm not going to look the way you want me to look."  And it doesn't just happen with plastic surgery.  Since I have gone natural, even though I LOVE the look and texture of my natural hair, I have had so many people ask when I stopped getting relaxers.  They tell me I should go back to the straight look so I won't 'scare" people with my afro.    But I am no longer willing to put dangerous chemicals in my head to lookthe way SOMEONE ELSE wants me to look.

And now to read you that have to constantly get implants checked and replaced after so many years, I find it even more scary.    Surgery is just too dangerous to engage in unless necessary.


----------



## nathansgirl1908

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I don't personally know anyone who ties beauty to breast size


I disagree.   It seems like the reasons for getting them are all tied to beauty.  Even if it is your own view of your beauty, it is still tied to beauty.


----------



## vhdos

^I think the point was that yes, breasts are related to beauty, but it is not the sole factor in what makes one beautiful.  Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so what makes a beautiful breast is different for everyone.


----------



## ~bastet

I'm short, thin and wear an A cup.  When I was a teenager, I _hated_ my small boobs.  Boys teased me for being flat.  I thought no one would ever date me.  I thought I was going to go up to a C cup as soon as I had the money. Now that I'm older and have more sense and self esteem, I love my small boobs.   They look right on me, and I think that if I had C cups, I'd look disproportionate because of how I'm built.

That said, I worry about the "rocks in socks" effect if I decide to have kids.  I think that would bother me more than the size.  I'd be wary of implants because of my friends' stories.  I honestly think that I'd just want them back the way they were, size A.  And my friends who've had implants say the PS pressured them to go bigger than they want.  I don't think I'd feel like myself if I woke up with ginormous boobs.


----------



## vhdos

^A good plastic surgeon wouldn't pressure a patient to go bigger.  No one should settle for a doctor that they do not feel comfortable with.  If they are being pressured to go bigger, then that's their fault, not the plastic surgeon's.


----------



## BomberGal

I honestly don't know any women, aside from a couple stripper/model acquaintances.... That want implants. I do know a few well endowed women who desperately want reductions.

When I was younger, I was an A-cup for a long while and desperately wanted larger breasts. It wasn't until I was 18 or so that I started to develop more. I'm a full B now... But I've come to notice, their nice... But a bit over-rated. I envy how certain clothing seems to drape so gracefully over women with smaller busts.

But... I do enjoy catching Hubby staring at my cleavage in a nice top. I certainly would not want to go larger than my current B-cup though.


----------



## coconutsboston

vhdos said:


> ^A good plastic surgeon wouldn't pressure a patient to go bigger. No one should settle for a doctor that they do not feel comfortable with. If they are being pressured to go bigger, then that's their fault, not the plastic surgeon's.


 
 ITA.  If a PS is pressuring a patient, then it's time to RUN, NOT WALK, and find another PS who will do what the patient wants.  Think about it.  Would you let a car salesman pressure you into buying a huge SUV when what you wanted was a 2-door coupe?  No.  C'mon.  This is your body, you only get one....unlike a car.  Why would you let anyone pressure you into altering it in any way that you didn't feel comfortable with?


----------



## Rhose

nathansgirl1908 said:


> Guys certainly do like them.  But I don't know if anyone should be "thankful" not to associate with men who may say they don't like them.  It really isn't that serious and implies that there are something wrong with a guy not liking implants.



It's not about liking implants or not. I don't care about that part - everyone's entitled to their own preferences. It's about a guy *****ing to me about what other women do with their own bodies. I find it boring and distasteful. Keep it to yourself. If I didn't like, say, guys getting hair plugs I wouldn't say it to my male friends. For one thing, they may have hair plugs or know someone who does. For another, who cares? It's petty and I have better things to discuss. I'm thankful that my friends are the same.


----------



## Swanky

nathansgirl1908 said:


> I disagree.   It seems like the reasons for getting them are all tied to beauty.  Even if it is your own view of your beauty, it is still tied to beauty.



I maintain what I said.  
I.  Do not. Know ANYONE. Who ties boobie size. To beauty.  PERIOD. 
You cannot possibly know if I know anyone like this or not


----------



## Charles

Rhose said:


> It's not about liking implants or not. I don't care about that part - everyone's entitled to their own preferences. It's about a guy *****ing to me about what other women do with their own bodies. I find it boring and distasteful. Keep it to yourself. If I didn't like, say, guys getting hair plugs I wouldn't say it to my male friends. For one thing, they may have hair plugs or know someone who does. For another, who cares? It's petty and I have better things to discuss. I'm thankful that my friends are the same.



Then why are you in a thread discussing it?

You're posting in a thread discussing why women get implants, then get all high and mighty when a guy comes in a shares his opinions.


----------



## misschbby

my thoughts i dont think its much different than going to get your hair done or whatever its just a way of improving the way you feel about yourself . Self improvement has been going on since time began the elizabethians used to use acid to peel the skin off their faces so they could appear more beautiful . Who knows in a few decades people will be sayin they put what in their bodies? lol


----------



## bonchicgenre

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I maintain what I said.
> I.  Do not. Know ANYONE. Who ties boobie size. To beauty.  PERIOD.
> You cannot possibly know if I know anyone like this or not



I agree.
My face didn't change because my boob size did, neither did my personality. IMO and my loved ones, still the same person, still just as pretty.


----------



## Swanky

right, and I didn't change mine because of size. . .  I DON'T tie boob size to beauty nor do I know anyone who does.


----------



## Charles

I don't think she was saying you were lying, but there are plenty of people out there who think larger breasts are more attractive.  If you take the same women give her a B cup, then give her a D, which "version" do you think most men would choose...hell, which version do you think most women would think is more attractive?


----------



## Swanky

Sure _some_ people do . . . luckily no one I know does. 
I scored my fella so I don't care what 'guys' would choose.

But just like _some_ people think larger breasts are more attractive _some _think smaller is more attractive.
Not everyone who gets reductions do so because of discomfort . . . we don't all think bigger = better.


----------



## Charles

Didn't say you did.


----------



## Swanky

I know, NG sort of did.  I said no one I know. . . .
she said "I disagree"


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Charles said:


> If you take the same women give her a B cup, then give her a D, which "version" do you think most men would choose...hell, which version do you think most women would think is more attractive?



my DH is frightened of D cups.  He says he prefers small to average size.  and he is a leg man.


----------



## Swanky

LOL!  D's scare him 

There's something for everyone


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> LOL!  D's scare him
> 
> There's something for everyone



he always says more than a handful is a waste...


----------



## Swanky

Lol!


----------



## alliemia

i am also a natural DD, so I can understand not wanting implants, I just don't need them. And in general, I am against plastic surgery or any elective surgery FOR MYSELF. however, i don't really care what other people do with their bodies, so why would i waste time even questioning why someone wants implants? I assume they want them because they don't like a part of their body and they have the money to pay a surgeon to fix it.

to the OP, obviously as a natural DD you wouldn't want breast implants. But maybe if you had crooked teeth or a crooked nose, or premature grey hair or something that upset you about your looks, you'd want to fix it. And therefore imagining one of those types of scenarios should allow you to understand why some women go for implants.


----------



## Bella

bagnshoofetish said:


> he always says more than a handful is a waste...



lol  Big boobs, little boobs, big hands, not so big.... it's all relative really.

Oh btw, Shoo, mine are enjoying my new Bal moto jacket, thank _you_.


----------



## HalcyonGirl

I used to think implants were stupid. I still think it's a silly thing risk your life on but I have seen some really great implants lately. Maybe one day in the future I would go that route.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

Bella said:


> lol  Big boobs, little boobs, big hands, not so big.... it's all relative really.
> 
> Oh btw, Shoo, mine are enjoying my new Bal moto jacket, thank _you_.



ahhh!  I'm supposed to try the black one on this week....


----------



## surferchick2

bagnshoofetish said:


> he always says more than a handful is a waste...


 
I've always heard it a slightly different way.  Maybe I just hang out with perverted people.

I just learned something new...I didn't know you had to replace them every several years, only if it leaks.   I don't mind molding or shaving, but I've just never felt comfortable with the thought of breast augmentation.   If I ever feel the need to be voluptuous with that hourglass shape, I'll just use curves and booty pots.   

J/K...


----------



## dawnie

I think you are fishing for compliments too. You have them already so you will NEVER understand. So many woman have them that no one ever knows about because we get them just for ourselves not to flaunt. Maybe that is whats wrong ,your tired of the women who flaunt?


----------



## bagnshoofetish

surferchick2 said:


> I've always heard it a slightly different way.  Maybe I just hang out with perverted people.
> ...



yeah, just trying to keep it G-Rated!


----------



## Chanel522

I plan on getting implants, but for my own personal satisfaction.  My husband prefers smaller breasts and I'm not getting huge implants, I don't like overly large breasts either, but after I had my son and nursed him I just feel like my boobs are saggy and deflated looking.  I went from a full B/small C to an almost E cup while nursing so there was a lot of stretching going on there!!  Thankfully I didn't end up with stretch marks on them really... maybe a few, but they are on the bottom and you can't see them.  Anyway, I'd like to have a small implant put in, just a full B so that I'm "filled out" and then I'd be perfectly fine with them.  

To each their own and I don't really know why a thread was started about this by someone that has natural DD's.  Obviously you wouldn't need implants, lol, but I feel like as long as they are TASTEFULLY done and look very natural, then implants are fine.  It's the ones that are in your face and tacky looking that make me roll my eyes and question why anyone would want to look that way.


----------



## nathansgirl1908

Swanky Mama Of Three said:


> I maintain what I said.
> I.  Do not. Know ANYONE. Who ties boobie size. To beauty.  PERIOD.
> You cannot possibly know if I know anyone like this or not



If someone is saying that they got breast implants because they felt it looked better, that IS tied to beauty.  After all, one part of beauty IS how someone looks.


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

surferchick2 said:


> I just learned something new...I didn't know you had to replace them every several years, only if it leaks.


 
No that is not true. They need to be replaced so they don't leak. If you are hearing this from a doctor, go to a different doctor.


----------



## jcriley5

jeez judgemental much OP?


----------



## admat97

Vegas Long Legs said:


> No that is not true. They need to be replaced so they don't leak. If you are hearing this from a doctor, go to a different doctor.



I got mine in 1994 and they're still beautiful!


----------



## Vegas Long Legs

^^^^ Playing a dangerous game with your health. Can't tell from the outside if there is a problem with them. But its your body!


----------



## admat97

^Thanks. That's why it's always good to have regular check-ups!

When I decided to get them, I had been married 5 years and knew I would never have children. I had the surgery in January '94 and in March I found out I was pregnant with our first. I ended up nursing 3 babies between November '94 until the beginning of '99. No problems. 

My only complaint was that after I stopped nursing I remained a DD. I only paid for a C, but I went up to an E immediately after birth.


----------



## melikemochi

Does being pregnant in itself cause the deflated look or breast feeding? I can understand why women would want them but I wonder how common complications are.


----------



## mellecyn

I am a small B and no man has ever complained about them, then again only a jerk would complain when he´s lucky enough to be naked with me in the first place lol ??

*I would like to know what men really think of implants ? *
All my guy friends (we´re europeans) say they prefer small natural to big fakes, but I don´t know.
Personally I understand why women get implants, for all sorts of personal reasons, who cares, I am sure well studied and thought through, there are risks.


----------



## vhdos

melikemochi said:


> Does being pregnant in itself cause the deflated look or breast feeding? I can understand why women would want them but I wonder how common complications are.



I don't think there is an answer to your question.  I know women who have been pregnant but did not breastfeed, who still deflated.  I've been pregnant twice, breastfed both babies for 6 months each, and my boobs are exactly the same (or at least as colose as I can tell) as they were before pregnancy.  I think it's different for every one.  For some it's pregnancy, for some it's breastfeeding, for some it's age, etc.


----------



## vhdos

mellecyn said:


> I am a small B and no man has ever complained about them, then again only a jerk would complain when he´s lucky enough to be naked with me in the first place lol ??
> 
> *I would like to know what men really think of implants ? *
> All my guy friends (we´re europeans) say they prefer small natural to big fakes, but I don´t know.
> Personally I understand why women get implants, for all sorts of personal reasons, who cares, I am sure well studied and thought through, there are risks.



I think you've already answered you question about what men really think.  You said that no man has ever complained about yours because he was lucky enough to be naked with you in the first place.  I think the same is true for implants.  If a guy is lucky enough to be getting "lucky", then I doubt he's going to complain about implants or no implants.  Sure, men have boob preferences, but at the end of the day, it's probably not a deal-breaker.  I suppose if they had a strong preference for natural breasts, then maybe they wouldn't be attracted to a woman with implants. However, that's assuming that you can always tell whether or not a woman has implants, which is not the case.


----------



## bagnshoofetish

mellecyn said:


> *I would like to know what men really think of implants ? *



Like anything else, it will vary from man to man.  I know a lot of guys who don't care what size a woman is as long as they are real.  I know a handful of guys who don't care if they are real or fake.  I know guys who like big ones.  I know guys who like medium ones.  I know guys who like small ones.  You are never going to get just one opinion from guys.


----------



## HauteMama

^ Agreed. Just like there are "leg men", or men who are attracted to other body parts, there are men who prefer a certain size range or what they perceive to be natural or fake. There are men who have preferences all along the spectrum, just as women have all sorts of different preferences when it comes to men. And I'd venture a guess that very few men would complain when they were naked in bed with someone, augmented or natural!


----------



## prof ash

This thread is upsetting me. I have not read the last 3 pages, but need to put my 2 cents in on a few things.

Charles- I am happy that you love your girlfriend the way she is ... but isn't she a model? So don't tell me that you "love her without makeup" and love her "'perfect' C cups" just because it's her.  

And getting breast implants IS a very personal decision, no matter what our society portrays. It is not always about insecurity, vanity, or being obsessed with appearance. It may be for some people, just as it may be because of medical reasons. So I don't think it is anyone's place to judge another person who chooses to get implants and assume that we know the reason. 

I want to add, in response to the OP's orginal question, "Why do so many women get them?", that many women get them to please themselves. And this does not mean that they feel insecure or hate their bodies or are self-absorbed women. And I find it very disappointing that a person would not date another BECAUSE she has breast implants. What if you were with someone who decided she wanted them? Would you then break up with her? Would you see her as a weak person because she wanted them? What? Doesn't that, in turn, make YOU a shallow person because you are going to let breasts dictate the future or end of a relationship? COME ON. Things happen. Your body changes. And your relationship with your body may change. This doesn't mean that we are at fault. I think it is every woman's *CHOICE* to do what she wants. I will admit, I judge. I was shocked to see what Heidi Pratt did to herself on the cover of People. But I do not know her. I don't agree with her, but it's not my place to judge or attack her if she were someone I knew personally. We all have hang-ups, but it doesn't mean we are "obsessed with our image" to a point where it's all we think about and we can't function. Why is it everyone's place to talk about other people's boobs, anyway? I've never understood this.


----------



## Sleeping Beauty

Saviola said:


> I have a tiny 5'3 frame and a D cup. I personally wish they were smaller. I feel smaller breast are elegant. I love to workout and my tiny frame with the large ladies makes it uncomfortable to run. It is even embarrassing to run around the neighborhood because two sports bras does not keep them from bouncing and making me feel weird around the neighbors lol. There are the pros and the cons.
> 
> But I know that when I become a mom..and these suckers go south for the winter..I am definitely going to want some work done.



Saviola, ITA with you, I am 5'2 with a small/medium frame and 32 DDD/32F all natural, and wish that they were smaller. I would be happy with a 32 C cup, the size I use to be in college. As the years have gone by, they have increased in size with my weight. I went from 110 lbs to 129 lbs. I'm sure that my weight gain has something to do with it. As any rate, I plan to have a reduction after I have children. I have sever back pain and don't feel that my clothes fit very well. 

I don't judge people who have implants, IMO, whatever makes the person happy. I certainly would not want anyone judging me because of my desire to have a breast reduction.


----------



## skydive nikki

Wow!  What a hot topic.  I was wondering the other day why girls got implants to have bigger breasts....Only because I have back pain because of my boobs.  It can be soooo painful.  When I ovulate they get a half size bigger and really hurt.  They feel like they are going to explode and it hurts if they are bumped or touched.  I can totally understand wanting a lift or going back to the way they used to look.  After reading this I can now see why women feel the need to get implants.  I am NOT judging at all.  Everyone should do whatever makes them happy and one day I hope to get mine reduced.  There is so much pressure on women to look a certain way.  I wish the same pressures would be put on men.  Women need to support each other and stick together instead of judging or putting each other down.  I really wish women would ban together more despite our differences and preferences.


----------



## domlee

This thread is still going on?  Oy...


----------



## natalie78

^ I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## afsweet

i've always been pretty comfortable with my size although i'm very small (32 A), but i have nothing against people who do choose to get plastic surgery of any kind.

yesterday after trying on a handful of bras and only having 1 fit, i realized how small i truly am! i'm sure i won't be getting implants soon, but i guess i just want a little advice...

since i'm 20 years old, would it be better to wait to get implants? would it be wiser to seriously consider them further down the road after i have children?


----------



## amymarie

stephc005 said:


> i've always been pretty comfortable with my size although i'm very small (32 A), but i have nothing against people who do choose to get plastic surgery of any kind.
> 
> yesterday after trying on a handful of bras and only having 1 fit, i realized how small i truly am! i'm sure i won't be getting implants soon, but i guess i just want a little advice...
> 
> since i'm 20 years old, would it be better to wait to get implants? would it be wiser to seriously consider them further down the road after i have children?



Got mine right when I turned 22 because I wanted them while I was still in my early 20s and I don't plan on having kids until late 20s. I don't mind having to get a redo after i have kids down the road. I would say it's up to you whether you want them or want to wait. gluck


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## englishlabrocky

Personally I think that its your body and what you do with it is your decision. I remember when I was growing up I had two cousins among many that I grew up with. They were sisters and one was one year younger than me and the other was two years younger than me. So when I was 13 and they were 11 and 12 they both already had D cups and their periods. I didnt get my period till I was 15 and my boobs never blossomed like everyone else in my family. I have a large family and ALL of those women were either C's or larger and all natural. I felt like a freak growing up because mainly my right breast is a small B cup and my left breast is a very small A cup. So none of my clothes look right and I also dont fill any of my bras. They dont look right or normal to me at all. So basically my left A cup breast looks like a popped balloon next to my right B cup.I have often thought of having a boob job but am too afraid to have surgery to get them. Im also not happy about having to be around other women now in my husbands family that have much larger breasts than I have. Were talking E cups that are totally natural. Its a constant reminder for me that I am NOT normal in that category. I am pretty sure there is a medical term for my symmetry problem but dont know what its called. If it makes you happy to do whatever to your body as long as its not hurting someone else go for it! I would much rather see people happy than sad, depressed, or unhappy with themselves. Peace to everyone and much love and happiness. May you enjoy your breasts in good health!!!

Holly


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## Cjiedxi

WalkInDayDreams said:


> I live in Miami and I don't understand why anyone on this planet would want implants unless they have a condition where they had to get their breasts removed (e.x. cancer) or some abnormality/incident (ex. act of God).
> 
> It has always been ridiculous to me. I'm a 36 DD all natural NOTHING FAKE and ive never had kids. I'm still young in my early 20's. I WILL NEVER GET IMPLANTS. Reduction is understandable because of back/neck pain, etc....and the sag that comes with having such large ones.
> 
> BUT...Why do so many ladies want implants?
> 
> To be attractive is...simply put...a stupid excuse for implants. All women have boobs they just come in all sizes...like mens "you know".
> -Although Pink has small "girlz", she's still hot...so the attractiveness factor is not a reason.
> 
> Why can't women just be happy with the way their girlz naturally are?


Because you have big boobs thats why you dont understand


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## Cjiedxi

gillianna said:


> A few people I know have implants.  Some did them after cancer surgery and others because they felt they were too small.  They did it for themselves not to please another person.
> The sad thing is that there are risks to implants too.  My best friend has had implants for about 5 years and has been sick with symptoms the doctors can't put a answer to. After about 8 doctors visits this past month it turns out her body is rejecting her implants or she is allergic to them.  She has a massive breast infection and needs them taken out.  It is really bad.....  After much research on the web for her it is shocking to read that implants are not as safe as all the doctors say.  www.toxicbreastimplants.com has  a place to go to articles and links to problems people have had. My friend's body is treating the implants as foreign matter and has been trying to reject them for years.   Another interesting note I read was people who have implants might need to take antiobotics before dental procedures---some doctors put implants in the category as a heart valve which needs antiobotics.
> All my friends with implants have been very happy except the one who needs them out, for a few years she has had second thoughts about them and wished she waited before rushing in.  She will have to get the implants out in the next few weeks but her plastic surgeon is pushing her to get the back flap implants using your back muscles----it makes you wonder $$$$$ who makes out the best with this.


Oh yes i heard about that, thats so scary. I wanted implants so badly but then I was scared of making myself die or get ill from them. Implants can also result in necrosis and the saline ones can grow mold


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## tafleischer

Cjiedxi said:


> Because you have big boobs thats why you dont understand


[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]


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## TinksDelite

This thread went on way too long the first time.. why are we resurrecting it now. 7 years later?!


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## veronicalawrence2

Personal decision just like it is your personal opinion to write such a post. Some things do not need to be understood and I think that applies perfectly to you.


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## Sugarlove12

Women get implants for many different reasons, some we can "understand" some we can't. I am not sure if you stated this thread in order to truly understand why women select this procedure, or if you wanted to be a little controversial. Either way, I think that it is a good question. I too have wondered, although I have never had any cosmetic procedures done, I can understand why some women do it. I try to be supportive of anything that makes other women feel confident, strong and beautiful.


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## uhpharm01

stephc005 said:


> i've always been pretty comfortable with my size although i'm very small (32 A), but i have nothing against people who do choose to get plastic surgery of any kind.
> 
> yesterday after trying on a handful of bras and only having 1 fit, i realized how small i truly am! i'm sure i won't be getting implants soon, but i guess i just want a little advice...
> 
> since i'm 20 years old, would it be better to wait to get implants? would it be wiser to seriously consider them further down the road after i have children?


I wish I was a A. I would give my right arm to be that size.


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## illray

Wow if I had DD natural breasts, I would never be getting breast implants either!


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## pukasonqo

some people get implants because of having  a partial or double mastectomy


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## gelbergirl

Mine just came out last week.
One of them got squished and deflated during a mammogram.  Usually I have better luck.
Loved them.  I'd have had them replaced in a second but the mammogram technicians just aren't that careful/or too busy/or aren't well trained & I would not be able to take the stress of that appointment each year.

Healing nicely so far.


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## sashara

Boobs are supposed to, like everything else, be as [seen in movies and media] expected  - meaning not to small, not to saggy, not too far apart, a certain nipple size and color. Boobs are just boobs, but for some reason to a lot of us they are so much more and therefore we want them to reflect all of that, whatever that is [an image of perfection].


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## ~Fabulousity~

In your 20's and complaining about why other women get implants, girl bye.


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## christieV

because I never had it before??


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## Daisybaltazar

I am a small b. I’ve always wanted a full c simply because the way clothing is made I feel id be a little comfortable having them be a little bigger.  I guess it’s personal preference.


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## starrynite_87

illray said:


> Wow if I had DD natural breasts, I would never be getting breast implants either!


I am naturally a 34DD,  after having a baby and breastfeeding I'm seriously considering getting mine done.


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## KMont484

WalkInDayDreams said:


> I live in Miami and I don't understand why anyone on this planet would want implants unless they have a condition where they had to get their breasts removed (e.x. cancer) or some abnormality/incident (ex. act of God).
> 
> It has always been ridiculous to me. I'm a 36 DD all natural NOTHING FAKE and ive never had kids. I'm still young in my early 20's. I WILL NEVER GET IMPLANTS. Reduction is understandable because of back/neck pain, etc....and the sag that comes with having such large ones.
> 
> BUT...Why do so many ladies want implants?
> 
> To be attractive is...simply put...a stupid excuse for implants. All women have boobs they just come in all sizes...like mens "you know".
> -Although Pink has small "girlz", she's still hot...so the attractiveness factor is not a reason.
> 
> Why can't women just be happy with the way their girlz naturally are?


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## KMont484

WalkInDayDreams said:


> I live in Miami and I don't understand why anyone on this planet would want implants unless they have a condition where they had to get their breasts removed (e.x. cancer) or some abnormality/incident (ex. act of God).
> 
> It has always been ridiculous to me. I'm a 36 DD all natural NOTHING FAKE and ive never had kids. I'm still young in my early 20's. I WILL NEVER GET IMPLANTS. Reduction is understandable because of back/neck pain, etc....and the sag that comes with having such large ones.
> 
> BUT...Why do so many ladies want implants?
> 
> To be attractive is...simply put...a stupid excuse for implants. All women have boobs they just come in all sizes...like mens "you know".
> -Although Pink has small "girlz", she's still hot...so the attractiveness factor is not a reason.
> 
> Why can't women just be happy with the way their girlz naturally are?



I'm in my early 30s and have never liked my boobs. It's not even the size - its the shape. Even though they are small, they have no fullness to the top and I still find myself needing to wear a bra with everything. I'd like implants I'm just scared to have something foreign inside of me.


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